# Ramsey Show Master Transcript Book (Part 1: Episodes 1-144)

This book contains the compiled study transcripts for the @ramsey_show YouTube channel (Part 1: Episodes 1 to 144).

## Table of Contents

- [1. "My Boyfriend Won't Marry Me Until I Pay Off All My Debt" | November 17, 2025](#1-my-boyfriend-wont-marry-me-until-i-pay-off-all-my-debt-november-17-2025)
- [2. "My Debt Payment is 50% of My Income" | November 3, 2025](#2-my-debt-payment-is-50-of-my-income-november-3-2025)
- [3. "Should I Open Up A Secret Bank Account to Protect Myself?" | December 5, 2025](#3-should-i-open-up-a-secret-bank-account-to-protect-myself-december-5-2025)
- [4. A Financial Plan Only Works If It Matches Your Reality | December 25, 2025](#4-a-financial-plan-only-works-if-it-matches-your-reality-december-25-2025)
- [5. A Financial Reset Is Better Than Staying Broke | November 20, 2025](#5-a-financial-reset-is-better-than-staying-broke-november-20-2025)
- [6. A Late Start Doesn’t Mean a Lost Cause | January 19, 2026](#6-a-late-start-doesnt-mean-a-lost-cause-january-19-2026)
- [7. A Life Built on Debt Is a Life Built on Risk | April 29, 2026](#7-a-life-built-on-debt-is-a-life-built-on-risk-april-29-2026)
- [8. A Proven Plan Beats A Quick Fix Every Time | August 27, 2025](#8-a-proven-plan-beats-a-quick-fix-every-time-august-27-2025)
- [9. A Written Plan Will Always Keep You On Track | October 9, 2025](#9-a-written-plan-will-always-keep-you-on-track-october-9-2025)
- [10. Are You Investing in Tomorrow or Robbing It? | September 24, 2025](#10-are-you-investing-in-tomorrow-or-robbing-it-september-24-2025)
- [11. Are You Ready To Live Differently To Win? | February 25, 2026](#11-are-you-ready-to-live-differently-to-win-february-25-2026)
- [12. Before You Can Win With Money You Need To Make a PLAN | November 4, 2025](#12-before-you-can-win-with-money-you-need-to-make-a-plan-november-4-2025)
- [13. Big Incomes Don’t Cancel Out Bad Decisions | September 1, 2025](#13-big-incomes-dont-cancel-out-bad-decisions-september-1-2025)
- [14. Big Paychecks Won’t Fix Dumb Financial Decisions | October 29, 2025](#14-big-paychecks-wont-fix-dumb-financial-decisions-october-29-2025)
- [15. Bigger Financial Problems Leave Less Room for Bad Decisions](#15-bigger-financial-problems-leave-less-room-for-bad-decisions)
- [16. Break The Cycle And Build Wealth | March 30, 2026](#16-break-the-cycle-and-build-wealth-march-30-2026)
- [17. Break The Debt Spiral And Regain Your Life | March 11, 2026](#17-break-the-debt-spiral-and-regain-your-life-march-11-2026)
- [18. Build Wealth Faster by Understanding Opportunity Cost | March 10, 2026](#18-build-wealth-faster-by-understanding-opportunity-cost-march-10-2026)
- [19. Building Wealth Is Simple (But Not Easy) | March 5, 2026](#19-building-wealth-is-simple-but-not-easy-march-5-2026)
- [20. Building Wealth Means Learning the Art Of Patience | November 10, 2025](#20-building-wealth-means-learning-the-art-of-patience-november-10-2025)
- [21. Building Wealth Requires a Long-Term Investing Mindset | June 2, 2026](#21-building-wealth-requires-a-long-term-investing-mindset-june-2-2026)
- [22. Can Trump’s Plan Clean Up America’s Financial Mess?](#22-can-trumps-plan-clean-up-americas-financial-mess)
- [23. Change Starts Today. Don’t Wait Till You’re 65 and Broke | August 20, 2025](#23-change-starts-today-dont-wait-till-youre-65-and-broke-august-20-2025)
- [24. Clarity With Money Brings Peace At Every Stage Of Life | January 23, 2026](#24-clarity-with-money-brings-peace-at-every-stage-of-life-january-23-2026)
- [25. Comfort Is The Enemy Of Progress - Attack Your Debt Now! | January 12, 2026](#25-comfort-is-the-enemy-of-progress---attack-your-debt-now-january-12-2026)
- [26. Debt Always Comes With Strings Attached | September 9, 2025](#26-debt-always-comes-with-strings-attached-september-9-2025)
- [27. Debt Is A Solvable Math Problem | November 13, 2025](#27-debt-is-a-solvable-math-problem-november-13-2025)
- [28. Debt Is the Enemy of Your Freedom | September 17, 2025](#28-debt-is-the-enemy-of-your-freedom-september-17-2025)
- [29. Debt Isn't The Problem - Your Mindset Is | The Ramsey Show (Best-Of for March 24, 2025)](#29-debt-isnt-the-problem---your-mindset-is-the-ramsey-show-best-of-for-march-24-2025)
- [30. Debt Only Holds You Back, It Never Propels You Forward | January 15, 2026](#30-debt-only-holds-you-back-it-never-propels-you-forward-january-15-2026)
- [31. Debt Robs Your Life of Margin | May 11, 2026](#31-debt-robs-your-life-of-margin-may-11-2026)
- [32. Debt Steals Your Freedom - Fight For Financial Peace | December 10, 2025](#32-debt-steals-your-freedom---fight-for-financial-peace-december-10-2025)
- [33. Discipline Matters Most in the Hard Times | August 29, 2025](#33-discipline-matters-most-in-the-hard-times-august-29-2025)
- [34. Discipline Today Can Rewrite Your Financial Future | February 17, 2026](#34-discipline-today-can-rewrite-your-financial-future-february-17-2026)
- [35. Discipline Today Creates Freedom Tomorrow | November 12, 2025](#35-discipline-today-creates-freedom-tomorrow-november-12-2025)
- [36. Discipline With Money Leads To More Control | April 27, 2026](#36-discipline-with-money-leads-to-more-control-april-27-2026)
- [37. Do the Right Thing Even When It’s Hard | September 19, 2025](#37-do-the-right-thing-even-when-its-hard-september-19-2025)
- [38. Don't Allow Your Relationships To Become Transactional | November 6, 2025](#38-dont-allow-your-relationships-to-become-transactional-november-6-2025)
- [39. Don't Get Pulled Into the Gravitational Pull of Drama | February 24, 2026](#39-dont-get-pulled-into-the-gravitational-pull-of-drama-february-24-2026)
- [40. Don't Let Debt Steal Your Future | April 6, 2026](#40-dont-let-debt-steal-your-future-april-6-2026)
- [41. Don't Let Fear Drive Your Financial Decisions | April 7, 2026](#41-dont-let-fear-drive-your-financial-decisions-april-7-2026)
- [42. Don't Let People's Opinions Influence Your Financial Decisions | May 8, 2026](#42-dont-let-peoples-opinions-influence-your-financial-decisions-may-8-2026)
- [43. Don’t Go Broke Trying To Keep The Peace | July 4, 2025](#43-dont-go-broke-trying-to-keep-the-peace-july-4-2025)
- [44. Don’t Let Money Chaos Run Your Life | February 16, 2026](#44-dont-let-money-chaos-run-your-life-february-16-2026)
- [45. Don’t Let Money Drama Keep You Broke | September 16, 2025](#45-dont-let-money-drama-keep-you-broke-september-16-2025)
- [46. Don’t Let Panic Derail Your Plan | September 10, 2025](#46-dont-let-panic-derail-your-plan-september-10-2025)
- [47. Don’t Let a Lack of Boundaries Turn Into a Money Crisis | March 17, 2026](#47-dont-let-a-lack-of-boundaries-turn-into-a-money-crisis-march-17-2026)
- [48. Don’t Quit When the Journey Gets Hard | September 25, 2025](#48-dont-quit-when-the-journey-gets-hard-september-25-2025)
- [49. Dumb Financial Decisions Stunt Your Financial Growth | October 15, 2025](#49-dumb-financial-decisions-stunt-your-financial-growth-october-15-2025)
- [50. Dwelling On Past Mistakes Won't Benefit Your Future Growth | January 13, 2026](#50-dwelling-on-past-mistakes-wont-benefit-your-future-growth-january-13-2026)
- [51. Early Money Decisions Shape Your Financial Future | December 31, 2025](#51-early-money-decisions-shape-your-financial-future-december-31-2025)
- [52. Face Debt Head-On Before It Destroys Your Family | Best-Of for March 28, 2025](#52-face-debt-head-on-before-it-destroys-your-family-best-of-for-march-28-2025)
- [53. Face the Debt You’ve Been Avoiding | February 6, 2026](#53-face-the-debt-youve-been-avoiding-february-6-2026)
- [54. Fear Doesn't Call The Shots On Your Finances | June 3, 2026](#54-fear-doesnt-call-the-shots-on-your-finances-june-3-2026)
- [55. Finance Hacks Won’t Save You, Habits Will | March 12, 2026](#55-finance-hacks-wont-save-you-habits-will-march-12-2026)
- [56. Financial Control Starts with Honest Conversations | February 19, 2026](#56-financial-control-starts-with-honest-conversations-february-19-2026)
- [57. Financial Freedom Gives You Safety, Not Risk | February 23, 2026](#57-financial-freedom-gives-you-safety-not-risk-february-23-2026)
- [58. Financial Irresponsibility Always Has a Cost | April 8, 2026](#58-financial-irresponsibility-always-has-a-cost-april-8-2026)
- [59. Financial Momentum Starts With a Shift in Perspective | May 14, 2026](#59-financial-momentum-starts-with-a-shift-in-perspective-may-14-2026)
- [60. Financial Pain Creates Real Change | June 1, 2026](#60-financial-pain-creates-real-change-june-1-2026)
- [61. Financial Peace Requires More Than Good Intentions | May 20, 2026](#61-financial-peace-requires-more-than-good-intentions-may-20-2026)
- [62. Financial Peace Starts With Personal Honesty | March 19, 2026](#62-financial-peace-starts-with-personal-honesty-march-19-2026)
- [63. Financial Shortcuts Won't Build Longterm Wealth | January 21, 2026](#63-financial-shortcuts-wont-build-longterm-wealth-january-21-2026)
- [64. Financial Stability Is Crucial When Life Feels Uncertain | February 12, 2026](#64-financial-stability-is-crucial-when-life-feels-uncertain-february-12-2026)
- [65. Financial Stability Starts With Changing How You Think About Money | May 25, 2026](#65-financial-stability-starts-with-changing-how-you-think-about-money-may-25-2026)
- [66. Financial Victories Don't Happen Without Sacrifices | December 16, 2025](#66-financial-victories-dont-happen-without-sacrifices-december-16-2025)
- [67. Financial Wisdom Replaces Fear With Peace | June 12, 2025](#67-financial-wisdom-replaces-fear-with-peace-june-12-2025)
- [68. Fix The Money Mess That’s Stressing You Out | May 29, 2026](#68-fix-the-money-mess-thats-stressing-you-out-may-29-2026)
- [69. Fix Your Own Financial House Before Funding Someone Else’s | March 2, 2026](#69-fix-your-own-financial-house-before-funding-someone-elses-march-2-2026)
- [70. Focus On What You Can Control And Start Crushing Debt | March 16, 2026](#70-focus-on-what-you-can-control-and-start-crushing-debt-march-16-2026)
- [71. Focused Intensity Is The Only Way To Make Financial Progress | November 19, 2025](#71-focused-intensity-is-the-only-way-to-make-financial-progress-november-19-2025)
- [72. Follow a Proven Plan, Quit Making It Up As You Go | November 11, 2025](#72-follow-a-proven-plan-quit-making-it-up-as-you-go-november-11-2025)
- [73. Freedom Comes After the Hard Decisions | February 2, 2026](#73-freedom-comes-after-the-hard-decisions-february-2-2026)
- [74. Gambling with Your Future Is a Losing Game | August 14, 2025](#74-gambling-with-your-future-is-a-losing-game-august-14-2025)
- [75. Get Out of Survival Mode So You Can Finally Move Forward | December 4, 2025](#75-get-out-of-survival-mode-so-you-can-finally-move-forward-december-4-2025)
- [76. Get Your Finances In Order Now So You Can Enjoy Your Life Later | January 8, 2026](#76-get-your-finances-in-order-now-so-you-can-enjoy-your-life-later-january-8-2026)
- [77. Get in the Driver’s Seat of Your Own Life | April 28, 2026](#77-get-in-the-drivers-seat-of-your-own-life-april-28-2026)
- [78. Getting Clarity Around Your Money Changes Everything | January 2, 2026](#78-getting-clarity-around-your-money-changes-everything-january-2-2026)
- [79. Getting Out of Debt Requires Radical Change | February 10, 2026](#79-getting-out-of-debt-requires-radical-change-february-10-2026)
- [80. Getting Out of Debt Takes More Effort Than It Took to Get You In | April 21, 2026](#80-getting-out-of-debt-takes-more-effort-than-it-took-to-get-you-in-april-21-2026)
- [81. Good Intentions Aren’t Enough—Be Intentional With Your Money | December 23, 2025](#81-good-intentions-arent-enoughbe-intentional-with-your-money-december-23-2025)
- [82. Hard Decisions Now Prevent Harder Consequences Later | January 6, 2026](#82-hard-decisions-now-prevent-harder-consequences-later-january-6-2026)
- [83. Hope Always Lives on the Other Side of Hurt | September 22, 2025](#83-hope-always-lives-on-the-other-side-of-hurt-september-22-2025)
- [84. How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty | (Best-Of for March 25, 2025](#84-how-the-baby-steps-protect-you-from-financial-uncertainty-best-of-for-march-25-2025)
- [85. If Nothing Changes Your Money Won't Change | March 26, 2026](#85-if-nothing-changes-your-money-wont-change-march-26-2026)
- [86. If You Don’t Stand for Something, Your Money Will Fall for Anything | August 28, 2025](#86-if-you-dont-stand-for-something-your-money-will-fall-for-anything-august-28-2025)
- [87. If You Feel Stuck, It’s Time for a Reset | September 8, 2025](#87-if-you-feel-stuck-its-time-for-a-reset-september-8-2025)
- [88. If You Want To Do Great Things You Need To Do Hard Things First | October 6, 2025](#88-if-you-want-to-do-great-things-you-need-to-do-hard-things-first-october-6-2025)
- [89. If You Want Wealth, Stop Being Dumb With Money | May 18, 2026](#89-if-you-want-wealth-stop-being-dumb-with-money-may-18-2026)
- [90. If You’re Waiting for “The Right Time”, You’ll Stay Broke | March 6, 2026](#90-if-youre-waiting-for-the-right-time-youll-stay-broke-march-6-2026)
- [91. Income Isn’t the Problem—Your Money Plan Is | April 9, 2026](#91-income-isnt-the-problemyour-money-plan-is-april-9-2026)
- [92. Intentional Choices Create Peace in the Chaos | May 6, 2026](#92-intentional-choices-create-peace-in-the-chaos-may-6-2026)
- [93. Is the American Dream Officially Dead? w/ @BenShapiro](#93-is-the-american-dream-officially-dead-w-benshapiro)
- [94. It’s Never Too Late To Retire With Dignity | November 14, 2025](#94-its-never-too-late-to-retire-with-dignity-november-14-2025)
- [95. It’s Not Too Late to Get Control of Your Money | September 30, 2025](#95-its-not-too-late-to-get-control-of-your-money-september-30-2025)
- [96. It’s Time To Set Boundaries And Start Saying “No!” | December 3, 2025](#96-its-time-to-set-boundaries-and-start-saying-no-december-3-2025)
- [97. It’s Time To Stop Surviving And Start Winning With Money | October 24, 2025](#97-its-time-to-stop-surviving-and-start-winning-with-money-october-24-2025)
- [98. It’s Time to Go Scorched Earth on Your Debt | February 3, 2026](#98-its-time-to-go-scorched-earth-on-your-debt-february-3-2026)
- [99. Lean Into Hard Things—That’s Where Change Happens | October 31, 2025](#99-lean-into-hard-thingsthats-where-change-happens-october-31-2025)
- [100. Learn When To Move From Intensity To Intentionality | March 31, 2026](#100-learn-when-to-move-from-intensity-to-intentionality-march-31-2026)
- [101. Life Happens — Don’t Let It Wreck Your Finances | August 15, 2025](#101-life-happens-dont-let-it-wreck-your-finances-august-15-2025)
- [102. Live from Charlotte: The Ramsey Show on Tour | May 5, 2026](#102-live-from-charlotte-the-ramsey-show-on-tour-may-5-2026)
- [103. Live from Phoenix: The Ramsey Show on Tour | May 21, 2026](#103-live-from-phoenix-the-ramsey-show-on-tour-may-21-2026)
- [104. Lose the Ego, Win With Money | August 7, 2025](#104-lose-the-ego-win-with-money-august-7-2025)
- [105. Make Sacrifices Today To Achieve Your Financial Goals | October 3, 2025](#105-make-sacrifices-today-to-achieve-your-financial-goals-october-3-2025)
- [106. Make The Most of Your Financial Choices—They Matter | December 22, 2025](#106-make-the-most-of-your-financial-choicesthey-matter-december-22-2025)
- [107. Make The Right Decision Today—Your Future Will Thank You | December 26, 2025](#107-make-the-right-decision-todayyour-future-will-thank-you-december-26-2025)
- [108. Managing Money Well Matters At Every Income Level | February 27, 2026](#108-managing-money-well-matters-at-every-income-level-february-27-2026)
- [109. Money Chaos Doesn’t Have to Be Forever | September 18, 2025](#109-money-chaos-doesnt-have-to-be-forever-september-18-2025)
- [110. Money Is A Symptom Of The Chaos You Haven’t Faced | November 25, 2025](#110-money-is-a-symptom-of-the-chaos-you-havent-faced-november-25-2025)
- [111. Money Is Just as Emotional as It Is Mathematical | January 22, 2026](#111-money-is-just-as-emotional-as-it-is-mathematical-january-22-2026)
- [112. Money Issues Aren't the Problem, They’re the Symptom | August 18, 2025](#112-money-issues-arent-the-problem-theyre-the-symptom-august-18-2025)
- [113. Money Magnifies What You Already Are | September 3, 2025](#113-money-magnifies-what-you-already-are-september-3-2025)
- [114. Money Stress Isn’t Always About Money | Best-Of for April 18, 2025](#114-money-stress-isnt-always-about-money-best-of-for-april-18-2025)
- [115. Money Turns Family Drama Into Financial Disaster | January 5, 2026](#115-money-turns-family-drama-into-financial-disaster-january-5-2026)
- [116. My Fiancé Broke Off Our Engagement Because Of My Money Habits | February 5, 2026](#116-my-fianc-broke-off-our-engagement-because-of-my-money-habits-february-5-2026)
- [117. No Amount Of Debt Is Too Big For A Comeback | July 3, 2025](#117-no-amount-of-debt-is-too-big-for-a-comeback-july-3-2025)
- [118. No Matter Your Income, You Can Still Build Wealth | May 28, 2026](#118-no-matter-your-income-you-can-still-build-wealth-may-28-2026)
- [119. No Matter Your Income, You Have To Know Where Your Money Is Going | August 22, 2025](#119-no-matter-your-income-you-have-to-know-where-your-money-is-going-august-22-2025)
- [120. No One Makes Good Decisions out of Fear or Desperation | December 18, 2025](#120-no-one-makes-good-decisions-out-of-fear-or-desperation-december-18-2025)
- [121. Normal Is Broke—Don't be Normal! | October 28, 2025](#121-normal-is-brokedont-be-normal-october-28-2025)
- [122. Nothing Destroys Your Finances Faster Than Broken Trust | November 28, 2025](#122-nothing-destroys-your-finances-faster-than-broken-trust-november-28-2025)
- [123. Own Your Choices, Starting Now | April 24, 2026](#123-own-your-choices-starting-now-april-24-2026)
- [124. Own Your Circumstances or They’ll Own You | February 18, 2026](#124-own-your-circumstances-or-theyll-own-you-february-18-2026)
- [125. Panic Never Leads to Peace | August 6, 2025](#125-panic-never-leads-to-peace-august-6-2025)
- [126. Peace Of Mind Will Always Override Taking On Debt | November 21, 2025](#126-peace-of-mind-will-always-override-taking-on-debt-november-21-2025)
- [127. Protect Your Wallet From Other People’s Chaos | August 12, 2025](#127-protect-your-wallet-from-other-peoples-chaos-august-12-2025)
- [128. Quiet The Chaos And Solve For Peace | January 16, 2026](#128-quiet-the-chaos-and-solve-for-peace-january-16-2026)
- [129. Quit Blaming Your Past And Take Control Of Your Money | October 8, 2025](#129-quit-blaming-your-past-and-take-control-of-your-money-october-8-2025)
- [130. Quit Letting Dumb Money Decisions Hold You Back | December 17, 2025](#130-quit-letting-dumb-money-decisions-hold-you-back-december-17-2025)
- [131. Quit Sabotaging Your Finances And Build Wealth | March 20, 2026](#131-quit-sabotaging-your-finances-and-build-wealth-march-20-2026)
- [132. Risk Is Always Part of the Equation When Taking On Debt | January 26, 2026](#132-risk-is-always-part-of-the-equation-when-taking-on-debt-january-26-2026)
- [133. Rock Bottom Doesn’t Have to Define Your Financial Future | May 7, 2026](#133-rock-bottom-doesnt-have-to-define-your-financial-future-may-7-2026)
- [134. Short-Term Sacrifice Leads to Long-Term Financial Freedom | May 19, 2026](#134-short-term-sacrifice-leads-to-long-term-financial-freedom-may-19-2026)
- [135. Shortcuts Won’t Help You Get Ahead With Money | May 4, 2026](#135-shortcuts-wont-help-you-get-ahead-with-money-may-4-2026)
- [136. Slow and Steady Beats Get Rich Quick | September 15, 2025](#136-slow-and-steady-beats-get-rich-quick-september-15-2025)
- [137. Small Financial Wins Lead To Big Financial Impact | March 27, 2026](#137-small-financial-wins-lead-to-big-financial-impact-march-27-2026)
- [138. Small Steps Lead to Big Change | September 29, 2025](#138-small-steps-lead-to-big-change-september-29-2025)
- [139. Solve for Peace Instead of Screwing Around With Debt | August 21, 2025](#139-solve-for-peace-instead-of-screwing-around-with-debt-august-21-2025)
- [140. Start Telling Your Money Where To Go | April 10, 2026](#140-start-telling-your-money-where-to-go-april-10-2026)
- [141. Steady Habits Build Lasting Wealth | May 12, 2026](#141-steady-habits-build-lasting-wealth-may-12-2026)
- [142. Stop Avoiding The Hard Truth About Your Finances | April 1, 2026](#142-stop-avoiding-the-hard-truth-about-your-finances-april-1-2026)
- [143. Stop Being Normal, Attack Your Debt Now! | August 5, 2025](#143-stop-being-normal-attack-your-debt-now-august-5-2025)
- [144. Stop Being Sick And Tired—Decide to Change! | December 8, 2025](#144-stop-being-sick-and-tireddecide-to-change-december-8-2025)

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## 1. "My Boyfriend Won't Marry Me Until I Pay Off All My Debt" | November 17, 2025


| Metadata | Value |
| :--- | :--- |
| **Video ID** | `7X7AJaupYRw` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X7AJaupYRw) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:58:20 |

---

[Music] brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show

alongside Mr. Bomber Jacket himself,

otherwise known as George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. We're excited to be with you. And George said me just moments ago, he said, "Hey, let's have some fun today." And I said, "Done." >> That was a mandate, executive order.

>> Done, if you will. >> We We do love a good executive order around here. >> Straight from the desk of George Camel,

we appreciate your attention on this matter. >> All right, Penny is up in New Orleans, Louisiana. Penny, how can we help?

>> Hi. So, me and my boyfriend have been together for about four years. Um, we have a 7-month old baby together, and I also have a 23-year-old from a previous relationship. Um, a couple years ago, I did a parent plus loan for my son to go off to college in another state. Um, my son and I agreed that he would make the payments on the loan. Um, my boyfriend

believes that I should also be making

payments on the loan to get rid of it as

fast as I possibly can. and he he believes that he does not want to take that into a marriage. And I agree with him, but I

feel like the loan is is is being paid.

>> And I just don't >> Hold on. This man this man procreated with you >> before marriage, but he's like, "Yeah, but go ahead and pay that parent plus loan off. I'm not going near marriage until you get that done." >> Is that Am I hearing that right?

>> Yes, you are. >> Okay. Just want to make sure America heard. We I know cuz I guess the question for you is Penny. Do you think that this is a principled financial stand or that this is a copout because he doesn't want to put a ring on your finger? >> No, I think it's the principal stand.

>> I don't. >> The principle of what? That he cuz he is there any other debt >> he decided to have a baby with you. Isn't that where you were going, George? Or no, >> that's exactly where I went. >> I think this is a uh this is a convenient principle to not marry you. and you've bought it

hookline and sinker and I I you know what I'll be honest. >> You probably didn't expect us to say that and it's probably the last thing you wanted to hear but I think it's the thing you need to hear. I was feeling the same thing George was feeling. >> I'm putting myself in his shoes. Here's my best reasoning for why he's feeling this way. He wants there to be closure from this past relationship and that debt is lingering in the balance that's kind of tying you to your ex. Correct.

No, I wouldn't say that.

>> Yeah, I actually disagree with that one.

>> What's his reasoning? Have you asked him? >> He don't want to get married.

>> So his his reasoning is he doesn't he wants to be completely debtree. That's his reasoning that he gives to me. So he feels like once we become one that debt also becomes his.

>> So he doesn't want it to be his Well, he's right about that. He's right about that. We teach it. Okay. Let me let me ask a couple quick questions.

Uh was there any conversation about marriage uh prior to uh the baby?

>> Um there was some very little.

>> Very little.

>> Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And when did he take a stand on this parent plus loan? When did he drop this uh >> principled stance? >> After the baby.

>> Just recently, which is why I'm calling.

>> But he knew about it before then.

Correct. >> Correct. >> What's left on the loan?

>> I smell a >> 30,000. >> 30 >> 30,000. >> And what is the agreement? Is it written that you're not going to be on the hook for this parent plus loan?

I mean, legally you are, but as far as the repayment plan, >> correct? As far as the agreement between my son and I, he will be making the payments, but legally, yes, I'm responsible for the loan. >> But there's nothing in writing. It just was a handshake.

Hey, you said you would. >> Correct. Yes. >> Okay, that part scares me because here's the thing.

They didn't trust him to take on this debt, which they'll give a 17-year-old $100,000 at this point. So, that that's worrisome.

>> So, if he can't pay, then I know that that falls on me and I'm willing to pay

the loan, but he's been tainted. And

maybe that's his fear. Maybe that's my boyfriend's fear that, you know, he won't continue to pay and it's going to fall on him.

>> No, your boyfriend's afraid to get married. How long have you guys been together? >> Four years. >> Okay. Yeah. I I you know, I I have nothing else to add. I've never been more clear about something on this show.

It's just lining up that he's using this as an excuse. So now this is a relationship conversation.

>> Okay? >> Because think about what you just said.

Hey guys, here's a situation. What what what what advice do you guys have? What what are your thoughts? What do I do?

You want this man to marry you? Correct.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, um this is a relationship

issue now. You're responsible for this loan. So, I it's not what he's saying

that I disagree with. I just want you to know that I think this is a relationship issue and we got to find out what the real real is because all of a sudden this loan has become super important to him. It's it's you know to George's point he'll have a baby with you but oh I'm going to stop short of actually marrying you. >> Yeah.

I guess my point is the commitment's already happened. He just he can't admit it yet and he's not taking the logical next step >> and so that part is is worrisome from the relationship. >> I'm worried. Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Do you have money right now? How much do you have in savings?

>> Um, right now my savings I have 10,000.

>> Okay. Would it make him feel better if you had that amount in cash in case something happened? You could write a check and be done with the parent plus loan. >> Yes. >> How quickly could you save up enough to have that amount?

>> Um,

I mean a couple months. In a couple months, you can you can come up with 20 grand. >> Oh, no. Not I'm sorry. I thought you said 10. >> No, you have 10. I was like, this call got even more interesting. >> I'm saying if you had that money earmarked and you said, "Hey, if something goes wrong, I'll be able to cover it." >> Wow. >> And have you guys combined finances?

>> While No, we have not combined finances.

>> So, how do you guys currently split all the bills? Is it a 50/50?

>> No, I pay my own bills currently and he pays it own. >> Who pays for the baby?

We both. >> Okay. So, there is a split bill here and then you guys are living together.

>> Yeah. >> Um, yeah. >> So, how does rent work? >> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. There was a little pause that needs to be investigated. >> Well, so we both have mortgages.

>> You guys have two separate homes.

>> Correct. Because we both had homes prior to our relationship.

>> But you're living in one house and the other one's empty. >> No. No. They live together some. And that's why the pause.

Yeah, because we live together this phone. >> So, who I'm just confused, >> folks. I'm rarely this right. I just want to point this out. I sniffed this out really early on here.

>> If my Okay, I have about a I have a two-month-old. If I said, "Hey, babe. I got another house. I'm going to crash there for a few nights. Good luck with the baby." We would be divorced. Do you

understand? How is this man not there full time in this child's life?

So, we're trying to work on that currently. So, we're trying to find a daycare that's actually closer to where he lives so we can stay out that way.

>> Why don't you sell the house and live together and be married and live like a couple >> cuz that's another question.

>> This is why issue.

>> That's what I've been saying. George, welcome to the party. >> I just got I just arrived. >> You just got where I was.

>> I brought some fruit cake.

>> Thank you. Uh Penny. Oh, Penny. Penny,

listen. As your friends,

this man needs to commit and he needs to commit all in. You got a baby together. Go to the courthouse, get married, pay the loan off. >> If it wasn't the debt, it'd be another thing. He'd be like, "Well, I don't like that you have your own house. Until you sell that, I'm not going to get married." There's always going to be another reason. >> He doesn't want to live with you.

He doesn't want to marry you. This is the problem.

All [Music]

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[Music] All

right, let's go to Tanya in Louisville, Kentucky. Tanya, what is going on?

>> Hello. Oh my gosh, I'm so nervous.

>> Well, you should not be. I mean, after all, you're just talking to me and George. >> There's nothing on the line. There's no game show, no prizes. >> That's right. We're here to help.

>> Well, thank you for taking my call. So um my question is kind of multiaceted

but the reason for my call today

primarily is um how do I get out of debt

with a disability and only being or and

earning very low income. I I was awarded

partial disability um and I do receive payment for myself and my child. I'm a single mother.

>> How much do you get? Um um for 2025

um it was including child support the

payment and if I'm earning my max income

was $3,57.

>> What do you mean by if I'm earning my So I'm a little confused >> because you'll lose your disability if you make too much.

>> If I make too much they take away my disability. So, I always try to work within the parameters that they gave me, but I live in a very small rural area.

>> So, what are you doing for work? >> I'm I'm a substitute teacher.

>> And what's the max that you can earn before they would take away your disability payment?

>> Um, you have nine times to go above what

that is. >> I'm not asking how many times. I'm just asking I'm I'm just unfamiliar with this and we want to coach you through it.

What is the amount of money that then triggers that they say you no longer need? Because that's what this is about.

They go, "Okay, if you make x amount of dollars, then you don't need the disability help." >> So, what's the number?

>> So, for um 2025,

it was um $1,160

>> a month.

>> Yes. >> That's the max you can make.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Let me ask you a question.

Yes.

>> How how much money can you actually make? In other words, >> take disability out of the picture. >> Take disability out of the picture. If you can work, how what what kind of a job do you think you could get? And what kind of job how what kind of money could you make? Have you figured that out?

>> No. >> Or what were you doing before? What were you doing before? What's your work history?

>> Well, there has been a lot. Mo the majority of it has been in early education and childhood development. I never did graduate college, so I don't have certifications to be in the

classroom, but I'm certified to do um

assistant teaching.

>> So you could So you could make somewhere between 30 to $40,000, I'm guessing.

>> Um no, I don't think it's that much.

It really would depend on the school, but where I am right now.

>> Okay. Because you're out in the middle of nowhere. And why are you living out in the middle of nowhere? This is all relevant. >> Okay. >> Why are you Why are you way out in the middle of, you know, Po Dunk?

>> Okay. So, I I moved from a bigger city

with my um partner, my boyfriend, um at the time,

and that was almost 10 years ago. We moved.

>> And is he in Is he still in the picture?

>> Yes, he is. But um I'm It's not a a very

healthy relationship. And he continues to tell me he's not going to marry me

because um I'm in debt right now.

>> Oh wow. This is two of these in a row.

>> Okay. How much are you in? >> These guys are bad liars.

>> How much debt do you have? >> Well, when we moved out here, I had zero. Um, and I put the money down on the house that we bought together. Um, right now I since I lost my job in 2023,

I started living on credit card.

>> How much debt do you have?

>> $40,000. >> That's all credit card debt. That's it.

>> All credit card.

>> Okay. And you and you have a mortgage.

>> No, he bought another house without me and forced me to sell the house we bought together jointly. >> What happened? Was there any profits there? Did you lose money? Cuz you said you had a down payment. >> So I I did. So we got uh we sold the

house for a profit and then um we put

the they the bank was supposed to give us two separate checks, but they screwed up, wrote us one check, and we couldn't close on the house if we said no, you have to redo the checks. So we I said, "Okay, that's fine. We're here now." We put it in a joint account in a money market fidelity account and then he invested it without my knowledge or permission and lost about $50,000 of my

money. >> Okay. Well, I think let's just a real quick bumper sticker and George will keep coaching you and I've got some thoughts on how to make more money, but you need to break up with this guy.

This is done. This guy's completely not

long-term material. You know it. I know it. George knows it. Everybody knows it. Everybody in the lobby knows it. They're all >> I'm living in his house right now because I >> not a problem. But that's not that's a that's not a problem. You can solve that. You go, I'm done with him.

How did you live before? >> Okay. So, I found I found a house to rent in the county, but it's $1,100 a

month. And right now, I'm only bringing

in not even close to what the max I'm

allowed. >> Okay. But my >> You said you're making 3,000, right? You got 3,000 coming in? >> No, I'm not. That's the max that I could make if I was subbing all the time.

>> Okay. And what's the nature of the disability?

>> Yeah, multiple sclerosis.

>> Okay. But you're able to do substitute teaching for a certain amount of hours without it affecting that or what?

>> Yes, substitute teaching has been okay for me. I before this I was working

working in a factory and it I my body

tanked. I got it.

>> Was having flares all the time.

>> Well, first of all, I don't want to minimize this at all, but there there is a reality in your story where you're in

an awful relationship that is not only not benefiting you as a human being in a relational capacity. It is also not benefiting you financially. This guy's a loser. He's manipulating you.

All the things. I'm just going to call it out as I see it. But here's the thing. You also have a you have a challenge, a physical challenge that's not going away.

So, you're going to have to push through the best you can. So, here's my point. I have an idea of what your schedule and what your physical activity looks like as a as a substitute teacher. I have an idea.

being an office manager or working in another capacity where you're sitting some, standing some.

And I know it's hard, but we don't have any other option. I don't want you to be at the mercy of the state, and you are at the mercy of the state right now.

You'd be better off going out and making $45, $50,000 a year, getting free of this clown, and getting out getting out of this debt.

>> I don't know that I can get a job that pays that much because I don't have a college degree. >> That's not true.

>> That's not the factor here. You could work in any administrative role without a degree today. That's right. In a school >> and outside of a school and um one of the things you're g have to consider is moving out of red dirt, Kentucky,

wherever you are. >> Okay. So, how do I how do I do that and still pay my credit card because >> well, the truth is you may not be able to pay the credit card. >> They're worried about the credit card.

>> Cover your four walls first. That's food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance. And outside of that, if you can't pay the credit card after that's all paid, then they can kick rocks and pound sand because they gave you an open line of credit for someone who >> couldn't pay it. >> And you have a disability payment coming in every month.

>> Yes. >> How much is that again? Let's review that. >> Okay. So, um >> just a number. >> Just a number. >> And my daughter >> together um that's like right around uh

almost to 1600.

>> Okay. That's what we That's the four walls of Georgia. That's what you're starting with. You also told me that you can make about $1,000 a month more without being penalized.

So, let's go find a $1,000 job. And you've already got that. But you need to move out of this guy's house. You need to find a better economic area where there are job opportunities for you.

You must happen to your life right now or you're going to be a victim of all of this. And you don't have to be. But you got to take some initiative here.

Everything's just >> looking for a job. This was the best thing that came along until I found >> that's because you're in a bad area living with a bad guy, in a bad living

situation. You can change this.

>> I'd be looking for jobs outside of that area. And then once you get that job, we can move. We can rent somewhere and we can get some financial footing that's not tied to him or this disability.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, the allnew Every Dollar is here, George. And uh it's way way way way more than our worldass budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features, including you get to uh have a 10minute

call with one of our coaches. If you just can't get the 15 minutes of initial help, which finds thousands of dollars

in margin for people who just walk through that first 15 minutes of questions, that onboarding alone, >> it's unbelievable. It's like a digital version of Calling into the show. I watched it happen before my eyes the other day. Great stuff.

You can start every dollar for free today by going to the App Store or Google Play. Get it and check it out. It's free. I don't know why you wouldn't try it.

And it is like having one of us, as George likes to say, in your pocket. Now you're a small guy. You might be able to fit in somebody's pocket. >> That's hurtful.

>> I >> I thought it was because of my skinny jeans. It's just hard to fit anything in there. >> Well, the skinny jeans make you more spelt.

I can fit. >> That's fine. Your pocket be pretty crowded. >> Good luck. Riley is up in Atlanta, Georgia. Riley, how can we help?

>> Hey, how are y'all today? >> Good. What's going on?

>> Hey, so I'm 18. I run escape company. I'

I've got no debt. >> Hold on, hold on, hold on. We lost you. We lost. You said I'm 18 and I lost it.

Something company.

>> I run a landscape company.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, we're growing pretty rapidly.

We did about 50 this past month in revenue and we're we're increasing that.

And I need some more equipment.

>> Did you say Did you say 50,000? I'm sorry. You dropped again.

>> Yes, sir. 50,000.

>> One month.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And you need new equipment.

So, we're going to be needing some new equipment and I've been looking at a couple different options. I can't go and pay cash for a dump trailer or a truck just yet. Um, I've got one truck right now, but for a dump trailer, would it be

best to continue renting one when I need it? >> It's about 150 a day, 500 a week, or

find a rent to own option because there's rent to own options that I could do. No, >> no, don't rent to own. Just rent until you have the cash to buy any equipment.

If I was in your business, George may have a different opinion. He'll jump in here in a second, but for me, if I was in your shoes, I wouldn't I wouldn't be in any kind of crazy rush to buy cash.

Even though we're going to say buy cash, I wouldn't be in any kind of hurry to buy equipment until it just made so much sense. Let me explain what that means.

I'm going to I'm going to rent the equipment. It's somebody else's equipment. That means they got to pay to fix it. They got their own insurance.

You're renting. If it doesn't work, guess what? They bring you out another one. You're not paying to have it fixed.

Um, and you're building that into your job. That's the C. So, if it cost 150

bucks a day for a thing, I'm going to and I've got three clients in the nearby area or whatever, I'm going to take that and I'm going to put that into the cost of paying me to do my job. So, that is an expense that you build in as much as possible and still be competitive.

That's how you do that. And and so that you have no debt. Number one, no pressure. Number two, really not much of a hassle and and you're covering that

cost, okay, which is awesome. You your

your greatest expense item outside of uh

payroll, George, is going to be his equipment. And so, if you can get your equipment covered in covered all the way or in a great amount, uh man, is that smart. And now you're stacking cash, stacking cash, stacking cash. And I know it feels awesome. You're a young guy, 18. Congratulations on a $50,000 revenue month. That's freaking unbelievable, man. What a stud you are. Uh much love.

Uh but man, it's going to be a temptation to go, I want to buy something, George. I want to I want a machine that's mine. And even if you pay cash, I still think uh that cash is

better off sitting and growing and stacking and stacking and stacking until it is just not even in the same ballpark

of risk to go buy something.

30 grand of that was cost of doing work, uh, labor and whatnot.

>> Okay. >> And then I' I'll have around 18 or so

left after after everything's said and done. >> So, you could pay cash for a used dump trailer today.

>> I could. >> Okay. And so, have you done the math on like the break even point if you keep renting versus buying a used one in cash today? Because my guess is you you'd break even pretty quickly.

>> Yeah. Yeah. If I if I buy a new dump trailer versus buying a used one, I

break even point half the time. Uh,

>> and I would buy a used one. What's the point of buying a new dump trailer? New and dump in the same sentence is ridiculous already. >> I It makes me itch thinking about it. In fact, I want the nastiest dump trailer on the planet.

>> Say again. >> I want the nastiest, oldest dump trailer on the planet. All I want it to do is hold stuff. You know, >> it's for work. It's not turning eyes at the at the red light. You know what I mean? >> I I But George, how soon would you buy a dump trailer? I don't want to buy >> How long have you been making this kind of money?

>> Say again. >> How long have you been making this kind of money?

>> Um, it's just been this past month.

>> Okay. >> And we're we're growing steadily.

>> Do you offset that cost now into your jobs? What you're quoting?

>> Yes, I do. >> Okay. I have a question. Uh, hang tight, Riley. We're going to act like you're not in the room. George, why would he why would he ever buy a dump trailer when he can take the rental cost of that and pass it off to his clients?

>> That is true. I mean, there's there's a world where you go, I can be more competitive if I owned it outright. I

don't have to keep adding this expense and I can lower my prices. And that's an option, but I'm with Ken right now. I think it's only been a month. I would let this sit and see what your actual needs are six months from now. And by then, you're sitting on a hundred grand of cash if you do this the right way.

Mhm. >> And you'll really be able to expand smart instead of just going, "Well, this was a crazy month. I'm growing. I got to go get all this equipment." And then you find out, "I didn't need all this equipment." Because every every time you add more equipment to your life, you're also adding some repair and maintenance cost as well. Insurance cost. There's a lot of other things to factor in here.

And be clear, I'm not anti- buying the dump thing. I'm just I'm just asking critical questions. Like, I just wanted to make sure that we know that it's the best choice. And if buying the dump thing is the best choice, I say go for it.

I just want to critically think through it and go what's the what's the the balance here? And there's a right time to do it, I'm sure. But the key is just move at the speed of cash, not at the speed of how fast you want the business to grow. >> Yeah.

>> What does it cost per day to rent?

>> About 150. And you're using that is it seven days a week? Four days a week?

>> Uh about two to a week.

>> Two to three days a week.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, it's costing you what? 450 a

week. >> 450 a week. About 1,800 a month.

>> Okay. That's not bad if you're baking it into the cost. And so longterm, if you're just sick of it and you want to own something instead of continually rent and you figure out a way to make it work financially, I think that's the right move. >> All right. I got to ask a biographical question. America needs to hear this.

Um, are you still in high school or have you already graduated?

>> No, I was homeschooled, finished up school early, and I'm still living with my parents. >> How long you been doing this business?

>> Five years. >> Oh, wow. >> 13. >> So, you started at 13. And, uh, what,

give us a range of the clients that are uh, driving this kind of revenue, 50 grand a month. Is there some corporate places where you're doing their landscape or is it all uh personal homes?

>> It's it's all over the place. We've got we're running ads, some of them are referrals, so it's it's a wide range. >> So, you got residential plus uh business properties.

>> Yeah. >> How how big of a team is this?

Uh, we've got two guys full-time, mean myself and one other, and then I've got a couple buddies that come in part-time whenever we have larger jobs that need some paid. >> How How old are your core guys you just mentioned?

>> Uh, one is 21, is 19, and another is 19.

>> What are you paying those guys per hour?

Uh about 20 an hour, 25 depending on,

you know, when I'm on the job versus not. >> All right. Thank you. >> Impressive, >> folks. Parents,

there you have it. >> I just don't know why we're pressuring our kids to go to college when they don't even know why they're going to college. This kid is way to do what he's

doing. >> Yeah. Riley's been doing it since he's 13 and he just started off with a lawn mower. Now he's got other 19 and 20 year olds that he's paying THEM 20 TO $25 AN HOUR. >> That's why. >> And they got no student loan debt. Just going to leave that there for you.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[Music]

All right, let's go to Randy in Los Angeles. Randy, how can we help today?

Well, first of all, thank you for taking my call. Very excited to hear your advice and talk to you guys. Um, so, uh,

our house got caught up in the January LA fires and burned to the ground.

>> Oh, no. >> Where where were you? >> Yeah, it was horrible. Uh, so in Aladena, >> Yeah. >> the whole community, 6,500 homes got destroyed. >> Yeah. >> Um, very devastating, but now we're in

kind of an excitement mode because we're rebuilding. So, we're we're moving past that. Okay. >> Um, luckily we had enough insurance. We

have a lot we have a lawsuit with SoCal Edison. That's two or three years down the road, but we're we're about to rebuild for uh 1.6 million. Insurance

will probably cover about 1.1

say we'll probably get about 200k, but you can't count on that. So, I'm wondering if I should draw from my retirement to cover the delta

um or looking at other options because

it's it's probably about a 400k delta to

what we have for mature.

>> Yeah. >> Was there a mortgage?

>> Yeah, there the mortgage is about 631.

We could probably sell the property for about 800k, but we lost 500k in equity

and rebuilding for 1.6. the property value is going to be, you know, really big in four to five years. So, I think it was a financial decision. Yeah, maybe. Right. >> I mean, so is the option to sell and

walk away with 150 grand

and go elsewhere or we rebuild and take on an extra 400

grand in debt or rob our retirement.

>> Yes, basically those are the options.

>> That's a rock and a hard place if I've ever seen one. Uh, how badly are you wanting to rebuild versus just selling for what you can get for it?

>> Well, we're pretty into the Aladina strong rebuild uh mentality. I think my

retirement has enough to to cover that.

Um, just like to get your opinion.

>> How much do you have in retirement?

>> Uh, about 2.7 taxable. >> How old are you?

>> 63. >> Okay. You said it's all taxable.

Yeah, it's in a 401k deferred comp uh an

IRA. Yeah, >> got it. So, you can withdraw without penalty. You'll just owe taxes on the amount you withdraw.

>> Correct. >> So, the question is if you deplete 2.7 down to 2.3 and will you still be able to retire with dignity when you want to? Does that change your retirement plans?

>> Yeah, I probably have to work another year and a half uh to do this.

>> Okay, so there's the trade-off. I'm willing to rebuild and eat the cost of

>> withdrawing that, paying the taxes, losing the future growth of that 400,000 in order to stay where I'm at and rebuild and and not have a mortgage.

>> Correct. >> Am I am I understanding that? >> You'll still have the 631 mortgage?

>> Yeah, I'll still have the 631 mortgage on top of the rebuild. >> Okay. I misunderstood. I'm sorry. Okay.

So, the 400 is I think I made that clear. >> Gotcha. Okay. How much do you have in savings now?

in savings about 300k.

>> Oh, nice. What's the 300k for?

>> So the 300k was part of the personal property payout. So I don't know if I consider that savings, but you know.

>> But I mean it's liquid cash you have access to instead of >> that you could actually use >> taken from your retirement. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. >> Why not take like 250? You have an emergency fund or is that part of the 300k?

Yeah, we have about 25k in an emergency fund >> in addition to the 300.

>> Yes. >> So why not use the 300 and only take a 100red from your retirement? >> This is what I'm thinking.

>> That's definitely an option.

>> It would be the only option if I'm going to do this cuz if you if you pop in 300

grand you would have taken or 400 grand into an investment calculator that money is going to double every seven years. So at 70, what you're really giving up is not the 400 plus taxes. What you're really giving up is 800,000

>> because you're unplugging all that growth, too. So that's the part I want you to think about. And for that reason, I would use any liquid cash I have cuz number one, you're not going to unplug the growth. Number two, you're not going to pay taxes on that. >> Mhm.

>> Okay. >> And how much do you guys make?

>> Uh I make 550. My my wife makes 65.

>> Oh, incredible. I mean, you could probably cash flow this thing. How long is it going to take to rebuild?

>> Well, here's the thing. We've got like 300K in AL, which means that they'll pay

our living expenses outside up to 300K.

So, we could probably delay the build,

keep living. >> So, they'll pay for you to rent. So, you have rentree living until the house is done. >> Correct. >> I would do that and stack all of your income. Dude, I would >> This call just kept getting better and better. Randy, >> I wouldn't touch any of the money. I would if you guys are bringing in I don't know how much are you bringing in a month? What's your take-home pay right now? >> Uh well, uh about 30

>> 30 a month is your take-home. I guess California taxes make you still poor somehow. Yeah. >> Uh so could you live off of, you know, five and put the other 25 in savings?

>> We could probably live off of 10. I was gonna say the five, George. Like, what are you talking about? >> Well, if he's living rent free.

>> Yeah, but he still in LA though, man.

>> I'm I'm just saying. All right. >> You guys have no other debt other than the mortgage?

>> Just the mortgage. We paid off uh 170K

in uh in um student loan fees that I

didn't know was acrewing interest because I didn't take them out and I didn't understand how they worked. But you guys show taught me about subsidized, unsubsidized. So, I looked into it. I'm like, whoa, we to get an interest, you know, even though we didn't have to pay, we were stacking up interest, so we paid that off.

>> Okay, good. >> With the >> Well, I'm just saying, you know, you put 20K a month in a high yield savings account for 18 months, you have close to the amount you need that delta.

>> Okay. >> And I imagine it'll take about 18 months to rebuild, right?

>> Yeah. Anywhere from uh 12 to 14 months is what we're getting quoted and we're going to start probably in March.

>> Okay. Then this this is my game plan.

I'm going to stack so much cash with my future income and then any gap remaining I'm going to take out that 300 from that personal property payout you got >> and leave your retirement alone >> and then thank us later when you retire with $5 million. >> That's right. So you're not going to hurt your compound interest and you're not going to get taxed.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. There you go. appreciate.

>> Yeah, >> I'm feeling pretty good. >> Sorry for what you've been through. You should. And and and my goodness, uh just so proud of you and I love the idea that you want to be a part of Aladena Strong and there's something about that, the community rising up together and rebuilding. That's pretty special stuff.

So, thanks for sharing a bit of your journey with us. That's um that's that's crazy stuff, George. You know, I I I was out there uh in LA uh

about a month ago. went out for a football game with my oldest son and we we drove near certainly the Malibu area

just because I wanted to see it with my own eyes. Um, and that is not a great

situation for a lot of people. Ry's got probably one of the better situations >> better scenario. >> Yeah, there's some pretty tough stuff going out there. And I bring that up to say you talk a lot about insurance.

Um, you know, and I think it makes a lot of sense right now for you to give just a fundamental, all right, acts of God or

acts of nature, whatever you want to call them, they happen at times, and it can absolutely, you know, >> yeah, >> people just go, well, whatever happens, insurance will cover it. No, no, no. You got to read the fine print to see what your insurance will and will not cover, especially depending on your state.

>> And so, that's something to look into. And so I reshop every year with my independent insurance broker and she tells me, "Hey, this is exactly what it will cover, what it won't cover. Do you want to, you know, upgrade and get this covered as well?" And I go, "Oh, sweet. I didn't know that." And so just doing a little bit of research can save you a lot of heartache.

>> Because if it's not covered, you need to know you might be on the hook if this event happens. >> Yeah.

And so people have been devastated when they lose it and they go, "Cool, where's my check?" And they go, "There's no check." Yeah, >> this isn't covered. It's a great point.

You know, I remember watching that coverage. That was the most surreal thing I've ever seen where you could see hot coals literally flying through the

air and threatening homes. And I remember thinking just because of the nature of the work we do, how many of these people like once you know your home is gone, that's got to be so I don't even know. Don't even know how to understand >> the grief process on that alone. >> Yeah.

Just the shock >> without the financial implication, >> right? But I I remember thinking, I hope they're insured.

some clarity." >> Yeah. Trauma plus confusion.

>> Yeah. Not fun. You got to keep up with what the market rate is to build that house today. That's the part you need to keep up with on your home insurance.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

So glad you're with us. 888255225

is the phone number. Love to hear from you. Emily is up in Dallas, Texas.

Emily, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, my husband and I have been

married for 14 years and um um I have

worked in the beginning. Kids came along. I stayed home.

But this entire time he has always been in control of like finances.

Um and I don't even know the basic

skills. I never knew the password or how much money was going in and out and all that. And I've asked a few times and I was not given any access or clear

answer. So >> what's his answer been when you share this very calmly and say, "Hey, I've never really been involved. I'd love to learn. I'd love to be a part of this." What does he say?

>> Uh just like never showing me how to do

it, you know? >> Is it defensive? Is it combative? Does he just shut it down? Does he go, "You shouldn't need to worry about that?"

>> He's just like, you know, just like a very vague answer. Like he would just not like show me, okay, this is the password. This is how you do it. You know, this is what so just like

never showing it. >> And how does that make you feel?

>> Um, not equal.

>> Have you told him this?

>> Huh? Have you told him that?

>> Yeah. >> And how does he how does he respond to that? >> His response is like, "Oh, I have always

showed you you don't want to learn."

>> But you're telling him you do. And so, you know what? Back in the past, I haven't wanted to learn. And that's changed now. I want to be more involved.

Can you show me?

>> It's different than saying, "Give me the passwords." Now, >> I think that's a different conversation.

And I think that is part of it. My wife has access to all of our accounts, but usually she doesn't even bother with the password. She just goes, "Hey, can you tell me what we have in savings?" And I show her and she goes, "Oh, okay." And that's it. And so there's total transparency.

And usually there's one person who's nerdier and knows all the passwords and that's me in my house. But if you're saying he's controlling, he's not wanting to show you things, that is a much deeper issue. There's either one one of two things, maybe both. He's super controlling or he's hiding something.

>> Yeah. Um, I think I don't think he's hiding anything. I think he just want to be in control because he thinks I he doesn't have the confidence in me. He doesn't think that I can do it right or Well, >> but you're not even doing anything right now.

Can I have access to You're not like making investment moves and moving money around. >> Right. Right. Right. And so I got a

full-time job. I'm a teacher now. And I

told him that hey you know I will give

you whatever money you need but I just want to keep this account separate only in my name so I can learn how to manage money since I have not learned that in past 14 years. I you know whatever we

need you know I'll just participate but

I just want a accountability I want a

transparency and he's just got really angry and told me that he's removing us from removing me from the our finances

and keeping our financ

you don't get married and then decide I don't want you be to be a part of this section of my life >> which affects you directly by the way and If something happened to him today, you'd be in alert. You have no clue how to access anything. You don't know what's where. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. And have you shared that fear on top of you the case? That has always been the case. Like I don't know a lot

of things because I don't know. So

>> why why do you think why do you think he got angry over all this? It's like he >> it's like you know it's not your money.

It's not our It's not It's our money and

it's you know um and I'm like okay yes

it's our money. Um but you know it's

just like I want to make sure that if something happens like for God forbids

if something happens to you I have the

ability and the skill to manage you know

the money and Yeah. And it sounds like

it's falling on deaf ears though. Like you say it and all that makes a lot of sense to just about anybody and he's now gotten angry about it. Now he's shutting you out. >> And he's like I need to make some changes. I am removing you from our joint banking account. And >> so this conversation went from hey can I have access? And he went you know what I'm removing your access.

>> This is like sit down and be quiet. You have you have pushed >> I wanted to just get an opinion like I

don't >> an opinion on what what specifically can we opine on >> opinion on like who like >> I I think it's a very extreme >> it's very extreme yeah he's out of you guys need marriage counsel >> make sure that my judgment is right and I just wanted to get an opinion of the outsider who doesn't know him and me >> yeah you're right he's wrong something is really going on and and and uh I'm

digging here. Uh is this a HIMYM problem

or is there some cultural stuff going on here?

>> This is uh this is a HIMYM problem.

Okay, >> this is a HIMYM problem. Yeah.

>> And I I >> What I mean by that is did he come from a culture? Did he get did he grow up in an environment? And I'm not talking about um I'm not talking about nationality. I'm talking like did he grow up in a home where this is the way his dad was and the dad before that and like it's just cuz I guess my point is it feels like there's more to this than he's just controlling.

Now I could be wrong but that's what I mean is that's all he's ever known.

>> Okay. >> And so yeah and I don't see the same pattern in their mind. Okay. The reason I asked that is cuz that tells me something. >> That tells me this is he's got control issue problems. >> Yeah. >> It's not it's not cultural. In other words, his environment growing up. He's now doing this.

>> How do you spend money? I'm curious.

>> Does he is he upset when you spend money? Is there you guys? I'm guessing there's no budget to be spoken of, but if you went and spent $100 anywhere you wanted to, >> I give him I give him I give him I tell

him everything. $10. I spend, I tell him everything. He will, however, go ahead and, you know, buy an expensive thing without even asking me. He He did that a

$1,000 purchase. Didn't even ask me.

>> What What did he buy?

>> Uh, he bought like, you know, like a

outdoor something. >> How would you know if he made a $10,000 purchase? >> Yeah. I wouldn't know. >> How would you know if he went into $50,000 worth of debt?

>> Yeah. Do you guys have debt that you know of?

>> I mean, we have a little bit of credit card debt, like a little bit of, you know, I don't I He's not that reckless,

but um but it's just like I I feel like,

you know, he just want to have control in certain areas and he just doesn't want me to. >> This isn't just money. >> Any kind of independence?

>> Not at all. He wants He wants you to be seen sometimes and definitely not heard.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. He wants to give me just a little bit of, you know, freedom to say that, oh, I'm a good husband, you know. >> Well, I I got uh I got bad news for you.

This is a this needs deep counseling and

a real professional, but if he acted the way he did over you just saying, "Hey, I'd like to be involved in our accounts." I don't know how he's going to act to the old marriage therapy request. I hate to say it, but you're going to have to draw some lines.

>> And right now, you might need to go solo. Uh yeah, I think that's where we are headed. Actually, we are headed to the counseling and because I'm being told that I have issues, not >> that's called gaslighting.

>> Oh, bless.

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[Music]

All right, Nick is joining us in uh George Camel's Old Neck of the Woods, Boston, Massachusetts. I feel like you should welcome into the air Boston style. >> Hey, Nick. What's up, my guy?

>> Howdy. How are you guys doing?

>> Funniest thing is almost nobody in Boston has the accent, right?

>> Very disappointing. Yeah.

>> How can we help, Nick? >> No, we we hate it. So, my mom recently

passed. >> Oh, how recently?

>> Thank you. Um about two months ago.

>> Wow, >> dude. O. >> Yes. And she worked for the state and I

inherited $340,000.

Um and at that time, everything is very

disorganized. She doesn't have she didn't have a will. So I ended up becoming the volunteer administrator because she doesn't have a lot of assets.

So the only thing that's getting distributed is life insurance and now we found out there's a pension as well. And

when I came to the $340,000 I was being pressured to divide it up between my two younger sisters. So my mom had me when she was a teenager got the state job,

signed up this uh paperwork for the life insurance back in 2000 and probably forgot about it. and she has the pension

that she's divvied up between my my siblings, uh, my two sisters and myself.

So now I'm being pressured to divvy up this money. And I was on board for that.

>> Who's pressuring you? >> Um, my grandfather and my mother's ex-boyfriend. >> Hi, your grandfather.

>> Um, >> which is presumably your mom's dad.

>> Yes. >> And then the ex-boyfriend.

>> Yes. So, my mom originally wanted my youngest sister, the 16-year-old, to go and live with him instead of her father because he's not that great of a man. He ended up abusing me and her um when we

were younger. >> Oh, man. >> So, and he financially abused me. So, that was the other thing is she doesn't want him having access to my sister's money.

>> Okay. I I interrupted you. Sorry. So, you were saying I'm feeling pressure, but >> Well, I'm feeling pressure, but I I did want to give them money.

Um, and then I we were taking care of my mom's dog, and the dog attacked me and my 2-year-old son. We had to go to the hospital. It was a really traumatic event. Like, honestly, worst experience of my life.

I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

wasn't met with any humility or even care for my son. They were making accusations that I instigated the dog attack um after it was proven that I

didn't make it up. The sisters said first >> the sisters were >> Yes, the sisters. >> And and I'm sorry. Did you say a moment ago I didn't want to give them money or

I did want to?

>> I did. >> You did want to? >> I Okay. >> Yes. >> And then the dog the dog incident happens. They treat you like crap.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then it just like is a mirroring of my entire childhood where I'm treated like crap by everyone. And I just I don't want to give someone hundred plus thousand dollars to treat me like crap the rest of my life.

Especially when like literally weeks ago I was trying to figure out how I'm put going to put food on the table. Like I run a small business. Um and it's it's

really tough this year. You know, I run a service-based industry. It's a luxury service to be honest with you, washing windows. So not many people have that money in their pocket this year. So,

kind of struggling and then we we come into this money and I'm gonna divvy it up and then I get attacked and they're they're treating me very poorly, not not even caring about my 2-year-old son. And

then once they find out that there's money involved, one of my sisters has changed her tune and she's now nice. And my mom always said that she was two-faced. And my 16-year-old sister that I was really trying to like set

trust up for has gone like no contact with me. and everyone says that she hates me.

>> Well, that that decision got real easy.

>> So, let's walk through the options here.

Number one, you don't give them any money and they continue to not like you,

>> right? >> Mhm. >> Option number two, you give them the money and then you end whatever is left

of these relationships. Correct?

>> Yeah. >> Cuz nothing's going to salvage the relationship. There's no world where we're all happy now and they're good people. And so you just option one, it's going to weigh on you probably to not give them any money and it might make your life more difficult as they continue to make your life a living hell. Or you give them the money and say, "Listen, this is all you're getting. We're done here. Don't don't

contact me if that's what you want. If you want to go no contact because they're they no longer are serving you in any capacity. This is no longer even family. This is a business transaction to them.

Yeah. >> So, you give them each what? 113 grand

>> and call it a day.

>> Yeah, that's what they're looking for.

>> I mean, >> what would you do, George? Let's answer this. >> I might do it for the peace of mind >> cuz it's going to weigh on your conscience. And again, in reality, they're never going to stop and they're going to just try to trash you, your reputation, your life, come after you.

I don't know what these people are capable of. Truthfully, you know them better than I do. But for me, I'm going, you know what? This is worth it.

And because there was no will, we don't know what mom would have done.

Right.

>> Yeah. Well, and that's the thing is I tried to I I had like a chat GPT write up a mock will and just try to really specify what her wishes were around my 16-year-old sister. And that was met with extreme hostility. Um, and they were trying to

make me out to be the bad guy in the hospital. And I was like, guys, like, I'm going to have to handle this stuff u with family court and probate and all that. So, I'm just trying to figure out what mom's wishes are. and they didn't want to hear it. >> Well, AI is never going to figure out what your mom's wishes were. >> Bad decision there. >> Well, no, no, no, no. I I meant uh write up a will for me to fill in. So, like

the will was already written up. We could have the notary come up from the hospital. And >> this is when she was still alive. You're saying >> this was when she was still alive. Like we had probably >> um so she was still coherent and things like that. And I asked the nurse if she was to have a will wrote up and she

wanted to sign it, would it be legal?

And they said, "Yeah, as long as his notary was there." And when I brought that up to the other family members, and it wasn't to go through all the assets, it was really to focus on my 16-year-old sister, what her wishes were around her.

And >> how old are the siblings now?

>> 16 and 21. >> Okay. because I wouldn't be giving a 16-year-old $113,000 or >> I'm not giving either one of them. Uh >> so I might do this later on when they're adults and say, "Hey, here's and have it in a written contract of here's how much you'll get and when?" >> Well, now the other thing is do I put this in a mutual fund and set up a trust for them with conditions? Um you know,

because like like I I don't want to give a 21-year-old $100,000 and I don't have a steward assigned. I'm going to tell you something, Nick.

Here's the deal. Ge I'll give George a final word on it. I He's already given his opinion. George is way nicer than me. >> Uh he's about to drop the hammer.

>> Probably because he's slightly more neurotic than me. He doesn't want to have to deal with it. >> Um I I think the trust idea would

normally make sense. It doesn't make sense in this case, George and Nick, in my opinion, because the minute you say to them, to the 16 and 21 year old, one's two-faced, the other one has cut you out of their life, and you're going to say to them, you'll get this your 100,000 your share, uh, at this age, and

if you meet these moral conditions, they're going to freaking lose their mind, and they're never going to get it anyway. Um, and I think your gut is the

one you go with here. And I think you were thinking at first I'll give him something and now I don't think that makes any sense. And I'm going to go extreme. I think it's extreme, but I think in this case it calls for that. I cut them both out. There's no way you're going to be able to ever figure out what mom wanted. She didn't take care of it.

She made it your problem. You stepped up like a good son. You're a good man.

You're going to make the best use of that money. Uh I just I'd be okay,

George. I'd sleep very well at night not giving him a nickel. And you're sure, Nick, there's no legal obligation here to give them anything because there was no will? >> No. >> The courts decided it should all go to you? >> That 340,000 is all uh life insurance

money from her work. >> And you were the sole beneficiary?

>> Beneficiary. >> And why was that? Why did she do that?

Because of your age?

>> Uh when she I was her only child when she first got the job. >> Okay. So, she just kind of never got around to changing it. Might be the real reason.

>> Yes. versus if she was able to today, would she add one beneficiaries?

>> We don't know. We can't play that game. >> That's the question mark. So, I don't know, man. This is a real tough personal decision. You got two options. I don't think either one is wrong. I wouldn't fault you for either one, >> but I don't know. Peace of mind is worth something. So, I would just think about that. You know these people better than I do.

>> You got it. Thank you guys for your time. >> Yeah. [Music]

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Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Alexis in Connecticut. My husband and I exceed the income limits when it comes to retirement account contributions. We've heard about the backdoor Roth IRA option, but it seems a bit complicated to manage every year. Are there simpler alternatives or other strategies we could consider?

Uh I mean, I don't think it's that

complicated to manage every year. And if you want help with it, you could use a financial adviser who could help execute a lot of the pieces for you. Uh, are there other simpler alter? I I don't think there's anything much simpler when it comes to tax advantage retirement options. Now, it depends on what your retirement options are currently. If you got a 401k, you've maxed out, that's a great place to go, especially the Roth option. You got the backdoor Roth IRA option. There's a mega backdoor 401k

option that you might have access to with your company. You can check with your HR department, but that one is even a little more complicated. So the backdoor Roth IRA is simply this. You contribute with after tax dollars to a traditional IRA and then you convert that to Roth. So it's two steps and I

don't think it's as complicated as you're making it out to be. Uh you said you've heard about it but you haven't actually done it. So I would do it first before you decide it's much too complicated. Uh there's lots of videos on this online and again I would you can

reach out to a smart smartvester pro on our website if you want help with it if it feels too complicated. That's what they're there for to help you understand the stuff and to not make it so overwhelming. But good problem to have.

>> Yeah. Very good problem to have. And you talking about super megas and back doors. >> It feels like a child name. >> I don't know man. >> What's better? What's better mega or super mega? It feels like we're naming charan toilet paper. It's like, how about we just how about we just simplify the whole process, Congress, but that's too much to ask. That's a lot. Carol is up in Knoxville, Tennessee. Carol, how can we help?

>> Hello, guys. Um, so I have a situation

of uh I own a home um in Iowa and

uh my in-laws have been renting it from me for 12 years.

Um, now my landlord is retiring and

uh has offered us the house that we've been renting the same house for 12 years. Um, but I can't seem to get my

in-laws out of my house. So, I want to

sell it, but they're not medically or physically able

to move on their own right now. So, I don't really know what to do. Should I keep renting it to him or should I sell it?

>> Well, I feel like the way you set that question up, there's not there's not that secondary option you gave us.

Should I sell it when you can't even get them out of it? And it doesn't sound like your husband's much help >> and then you said then you said they can't get out of it.

>> He's told them that they, you know, we want to sell it by this time, by this time, by this time. The last two years.

>> Where would they be if they weren't renting from you guys for the last 12 years?

Um they were renting before that another

house. >> Okay. >> We got an opportunity to come down here and we kind of wanted to keep the house as a backup plan in case this didn't work out >> and yep, here we are 12 years later.

>> Well, so the great news is is that your husband's on board with selling the house. I thought maybe that was going to be an issue, but the bad news is is he won't actually be a man, >> right? >> And tell his parents that it's time for them to move on. Now, the the issue of

they can't physically leave. Is that true?

>> Yeah. Um, my mother-in-law has gotten really bad where she can't even walk now. My father-in-law has had a heart attack. It's 11 acres and he just he

can't do it all himself.

>> Right. But I guess what I'm trying to understand is is we want them out, but they actually can't leave.

>> Right. >> Well, is that true? I mean, you guys could go help them move. Like can we put them in in like a wheelchair into a van and put take them to a different house they rent and you guys do the actual moving process?

>> Well, I have even offered to like buy a

trailer for them to move into until they found something else.

>> Well, what are you charging them for rent right now?

>> Honestly, it's been ridiculously cheap.

They've only been paying my mortgage, which is now paid off as of 5 days ago.

>> Okay. You guys are being taken advantage of. the the more detail we get.

>> Do they have enough money to rent elsewhere? That's the question.

>> Um, I don't really think so. I mean,

>> 500.

Um, I honestly don't know, but it's probably roughly 2,000 a month.

>> Okay. And they're not going to find rent for $500, I assume, anywhere in the area. >> No. No. So, are you guys you're going to have to subsidize their rent elsewhere if that's if that's what you guys choose to do? >> Cuz otherwise, they're on the street. What are the options here?

>> Right. I don't want them on the street. >> Put them in a home. >> Sounds to me like you're holding on to this house and they're going to live in it >> until they aren't alive.

>> My husband says the same thing. My dad and I built this house and my dad passed away in 2007 and I just can't go back there no more. I'm done.

>> How old are they? No, I get that part. I guess what I'm saying is Yeah. Go ahead.

>> They're like 72 and 73. >> Okay. And there's a chance they could live another 20 plus years, right?

>> Probably not. >> I was going to say that's generous.

>> They're they're physically >> but physically in bad shape.

>> People can live into their 90s even if they're, you know, they physically can't get around. >> So, I'm wondering is there a condition? Is there a cancer or something that says, "Hey, this is this might be ending in the next 5 years," >> right? >> Well, I guess I guess my question is, >> is their health as their health gets worse, >> they're not going to be able to stay in that house anyway, and they'd have to go to an option that's not even on the table right now, but all of a sudden becomes the option.

>> Yes. Well, I guess my point is is that

based on what George and I have heard, even though I hate this for you and I think it's manipulative, it sounds to me like until that becomes the situation and where their health requires them to move out, you're kind of stuck in this situation.

>> Yeah. >> And your husband hasn't taken any initiative, >> right? Well, he's told him several times, you know, we need you guys to find a place to rent. Well, I appreciate that. He's told >> they're not going to get on Google and go search and >> they're not moving. He's told him and they literally aren't even listening to him. >> Correct. >> Right. They've tried and she got scammed.

>> Scammed in a rental situation where they gave them a deposit that was fake or what? >> No, they wanted him to go buy some Apple cards and stuff um to go see the house and for the down payment.

>> Okay. And she was able to go buy these Apple cards? No.

>> Okay. So, how did she get scared?

>> She didn't she didn't she she tried to send um her husband, my father-in-law,

and um she they were going to go meet

her somewhere to give him the cards.

>> Oh, he had to carry her to the truck.

>> Well, here's here's >> if unless your husband I understand you don't want to go back because there's some kind of pain there with you. That's not why we're talking today. But unless he wants to go back to Iowa and handhold them, that means he finds the place, make sure they don't get scammed to buy Apple cards or what in the world is going on in Iowa. But unless he as their

son >> goes back and cleans this mess up, then

you're holding until it takes care of itself. That's what it sounds like to me. So, if you guys really want them out, your husband needs to grow a spine and fly back to Iowa and solve this problem, >> right? >> And if it's not solvable, >> as you're painting this picture to us,

then they're staying there till they can't stay there, >> right? >> And at this point, it's not a financial burden to you. Not much of one other than upkeep, right?

>> Well, yeah. Yeah. It it needs it needs some stuff. >> Well, we'll do that later. Well, yeah.

As long as they're it's inhabitable by them, don't spend a nickel on it. Right.

>> Right. Right. >> It's a tough one. >> Yeah. Because that was my fear, too, cuz like I could take out a personal loan and >> fix it. >> No. Whatever you do, do not go into debt over the situation. Let this house >> Yeah. No, I don't want to do that.

>> Well, >> because I won't get it back. >> Either you let them stay and you can't sell or you try to get them to an assisted living, senior living, or a rental that makes sense for them financially. But either way, this is going to cost you [Music]

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right, the Ramsay Solutions Christmas

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he's Santa Claus, George. And uh

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$20 for all of our assessments, and so much more. Uh, go to ramseyolutions.com/store, ramseyolutions.com/store, or if you're on YouTube or podcast, we have a link to the store in the show notes. Hayden is joining us now from Ashe, excuse me, yes, Asheville, North Carolina. Hayden, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, can you hear me? >> Uh, loud and clear. What's going on?

>> Awesome. Um, so I'm just kind of looking for some information. Um, so I'm actually enlisting into the Air Force in about 3 weeks and then I will go to basic training from there. So kind of what I'm looking for is just um kind of some advice on what should I do while

I'm in the service to try to get better better financially. Um, and then just kind of, you know, grow it while I'm in, you know, if I do choose to get out after my full years or make a career out of it. I've got a few things. Um, like I've already got my IRA set up. I've got money in my bank accounts, you know, pretty good on that. I do have a truck that I just purchased. So, that is a kind of a debt that I took on.

>> I wouldn't say kind of a debt. I would just say it's a debt.

Um, but yeah, that's kind of just what I'm just kind of calling in and asking for advice on what I could do while I'm in. >> Sure. How old are you?

>> I am I will be 25 in February.

>> Cool. And what will you be making?

>> Uh, starting out I will make about 2700

a month. Um, and then I just progress with the rank as as I go through.

>> Okay. Are are you living for free?

>> Um, yeah. I mean, I live I'll live when I'm there, I'll live for free. Um cuz I live in the dormitories and stuff.

>> Sweet. Okay. So, you can make 2,700 work

and uh you've got a truck payment now to deal with. >> Do you need this truck?

>> Well, um yeah, it's kind of >> It was a trick question, Hayden. The answer is you do not need this truck.

How much was this truck?

>> Uh it is it was 53,000. Now tell me, now

tell me on why why on God's green earth does a 25year-old young man who's got a bright future ahead of him need a $53,000 truck.

>> So here's what happened. My car I had a

car I've had a car for about 10 years and the warranty was about to run out and everything. And I will say this, my family has helped me with the payment so far. Um, and you know, but when I get

started and get get established into the military, then I will take on the payments. Um, so it's kind of a it's kind of a little push from my family.

Um, just because the car, the vehicle that I had was the warranty was gone and then the miles was just going to get too high.

>> I'm still looking for a reason why you needed a $53,000 truck that you couldn't afford. >> You could run for Congress. That was such a good deflection, sir, on that direct question. So, one more time, why

does a 25year-old going to the Air Force need a $53,000 >> while he makes $32,000 a year, by the way? O, >> how much is the payment?

>> The payment is $8.25 a month.

>> Oh my word, I can't breathe, Hayden. And

your family's paying all of it?

>> Um, so yeah, so I'm paying the insurance on it. Um, and then they just cuz we just the payments just started coming out the beginning of this month.

>> Yeah. So, you don't even know what it's like to experience it. And you're asking me how to grow your investments.

>> Do you understand how diabolically inverse those two things are? That you're paying interest on a depreciating asset that's almost twice your income while asking me how to build wealth.

Do you find this ironic? Yeah, that was a it was a a concern of mine when the vehicle was was coming up. And >> here's how you build wealth. Hey, I'm going to be honest. You sell the truck while you can and get out from underneath this payment.

>> How much could you sell it for?

>> Um, well, I bought I bought it pretty much brand new. Like, it had one owner and it only had like 6,000 miles on it.

So, I could probably probably make my money back on it. I would attempt to do that. Do you have any money saved?

>> Oh, yeah. I mean, I've got I've got a

thousands of dollars saved.

>> How much exactly?

>> Uh, I've got about 20,000 saved and then I've got some cash, probably 8 to 10.

>> Okay, so here's what I would do. I would sell that truck and then take $10,000

and get yourself a reasonable used car.

Maybe 15 would be the top end limit out the door after taxes is what you're going to spend on this thing making $30,000 because you told me your stated goal is to build wealth, right?

>> Absolutely. >> So, if that's the thing we're aiming at, that we're going to spend as little money as possible on toys and depreciating assets >> and we're going to get out of debt and stay out of debt. Is this your only debt to your name right now? >> Yeah, this is this is my only debt.

No credit card, no loan, no nothing. I'm telling you, if you sell this car, get out of debt, stay out of debt, and then you have all of your income at your disposal to actually build wealth with, we have we can get you a game plan to build some wealth and invest.

>> Yeah, exactly. >> And so I would get out from this truck and see if you can take it back to the dealership that that screws you on the steel. What's the interest rate on this?

Uh, it is

8.24. >> Cool, cool, cool. What if you could make 8% on your money instead of lose it?

Wouldn't that be cool? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's what I'm trying to trade here. I'm not mad at you for wanting to enjoy your life. I'm mad because it's robbing from your ability to build wealth for you and your future family.

So, I would say, "Hey, mom, dad, thanks for enabling this bad decision. I want out of this thing. You're off the hook for the payment." >> That was Yeah. I mean because they, you know, they talked talked about it and they was like, "Well, we can do it, you know, while you're in and then when you get established, you know, you can take it." But my biggest thing is I I don't

have property in my name and I would, you know, we all know how property and the value is and I would love to get started on property as soon as I can.

And of course with the truck payment and stuff that kind of puts me, that puts me >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. All of your goals are in direct opposition to your actual behavior.

You're saying, "I want to own property. I want to build wealth. I want to invest. And yet, we're going backwards.

And so, I want you to undo that decision as quickly as possible so that you can actually have some money. Cuz you save 8.25 a month in a savings account, you'll be able to actually buy something one day. But if you continue down this path of taking on a payment, trading it in, getting another payment, then you're going to be broke for as long as you can remember. So, I'm wishing you the best, man, but this truck needs to go yesterday. >> Yeah. And then walk the baby steps out.

We'll give you Total Money Makeover as our uh congratulations gift. Uh let's also give uh George's uh book, Breaking Free from Broke. >> Yes, please read the car loans chapter.

Read the Carlos chapter as a followup.

That's good homework. Uh but the the point is you're going to have a great chance to live very affordably while you're in the Air Force. And we thank you for serving our country. You're a great American. But take advantage of that. and and so saving and investing while you're there, not going into any debt, >> getting out of all debt now. And u all you got to do is get rid of this truck.

And by the way, you're going to meet opposition on that. Uh cuz what George just laid out for you is very countercultural. Included in your own family. >> They're going to be laughing when you roll up in that new truck. You get the new to you truck that was $10,000, >> right? But I mean, how much do you need any kind of a vehicle when you're on a base? >> That's what I'm wondering. you know, so >> you're just tooling around to the, you know, local Wendy's, I guess.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, catch a ride. Catch a ride with the other guys. Um, >> in their fancy trucks that have $800 payments. That's the way to do it. >> There's the deal. You ride around in somebody else's. Uh, are we still, by the way, in America, are we still on the upper end of $700 on the average amount of car payments or has that gone up? Do you know? >> It's over 700 now.

>> Over 700. >> Yeah. Oh, okay. I thought it was high 700. Well, we are we're actually headed to the amount of student loan debt we're in equal to car debt. That's what's crazy. >> Uh did you hear about uh Trump's 15-year

car note? Is that going anywhere? >> I heard a rumbling about this. I could not find any credible sources that said they were working on a 15-year car.

>> I can't either. It was mentioned. The latest I heard was the seven-year car loan has now kind of been normalized.

15-year car loans I don't believe exists unless you're talking a luxury exotic car, you know, that's hundreds of thousands of dollars. Uh, it was floating around the internet when the 50-year mortgage was thrown out.

>> Would anything shock me in America today that's going to cause us to be more broke? >> Why not? >> To have our fancy toys. >> Why not? Well, our >> the guy in charge likes the debt.

>> He's not scared of debt cuz he'll just he'll just bankrupt on it. I guess that's his MO.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside and we're happy to have you with us.

888255225 is the phone number. Michelle joins us now in Phoenix, Arizona. Michelle, how can we help?

>> Hi guys, thanks so much for uh helping me out. I appreciate it. Um I guess my question is how do my husband and I get out of $270,000 of student loan debt combined on one income? >> What's his income?

>> Uh we make $92,000 a year gross.

>> Okay. >> And what are your options for increasing income? Are you able to work outside the home right now?

>> Um, so I am author. I've been doing it

for 11 years. What was that? Freelance, right? Um, I've been a published author.

Okay. >> For 11 years and a freelance writer, but

a lot of companies I write for don't pay me. >> They don't pay you?

>> Nope. >> What do you mean? Like you did the work and then the payment never came through.

um more of they're all saying that there's budget cuts and if I want to get my work out there, I the right to help people for free or not get paid.

>> Okay. Yeah. No. Is this a scam? That's this is not how the the world works.

Even in the freelance writing world, >> they set a rate >> and they say, "Hey, we'll pay you 150 bucks to write this thing." And then they pay you to write that thing.

>> It changed a lot with the last recession in 2008. and I write, but the books don't pay very well for advances and royalties.

>> Okay. Are there other writing jobs that you could get? Because you're saying you're able to work full-time. Nothing stopping you from doing that.

>> I can work remote. I have a little munchkin at home, so at night I can write. I'm happy to do it. I I'm always I've always done that. Um, but I've even been looking at teaching work. I'm a I have two master's degrees, so I can be a teacher. Um, but I haven't been able to get hired online like remote asynchronous.

>> Well, okay. I appreciate all that, but there's an old phrase and I'm going to ask you to finish it. Where there's a will, there's a >> way. >> Okay. And I I appreciate that you've tried to get the online professor. I think you should still be trying for that. I think that's a great idea. But I I think with all of the freelance in today's economy, the freelance work

because of your varied skills of writing, there's a lot of different type of writing you can do and none of this nonsense where you're writing for free.

Um, but you may need to get outside of the writing side of things and uh look at what other online uh you know or work from home roles that with your two masters with your writing experience.

There's a lot of transferable skill there. I mean, you should be thinking in the $50 to $75,000 category at a minimum

with those two masters. What are your master's degrees in?

>> Um, English and creative writing, but I have a unique niche that's needed. I actually help kids and teens who are struggling with life issues such as um

if their parent died or if they're living with alcoholic parents or um if they're struggling with bullying. Those are kind of um that I touch in. um

there's not a lot of help for them and if I don't write for free sometimes or write then they can't get the information that's needed to help them.

So I'm kind of in a if you do it for

free at least I'm getting the information out to those kids or but if

I stop writing then the then the information stops. So that's why it's that why I kept doing it if you're wondering why I keep writing for free.

>> Well, we're not judging you but my point is is you can only do so much of that right now. You need to bring in more income to help your husband. And do you agree or disagree with this?

>> Oh, no. I agree. I'm just having trouble

finding that. You know what I mean? I've been applying like crazy.

>> Well, but it's not about applying like crazy. I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle, so we don't have to describe the entire book, but you have to get into a very strategic

um system of contacting people. And I'm not talking about applying on LinkedIn or applying online. I'm talking about talking to real people who can make real connections for you because there's a lot you can do, but you need to be targeting something uh in the $50 to

$75,000 range. I would take all those masters, all that skill, all that experience, and I would expand. I would

put it uh you know, if nothing else, put

all of your work experience and expertise into chat GPT just for fun.

Just put it in there and go, "What would you suggest?" You've got to start opening up your eyes to possibilities because you guys need more income. Now, I want to bring George in. Let's assume we get more income. Okay, >> George, systematically walk them through what they do. >> So, you've got how many total debts

>> out of the 27? >> I have uh most of that is my student debt. He he's at like 65,000. The rest is mine.

And then we also have a mortgage and have, you know, credit cards and we're in some collections right now because everything kind of just got a little out of control. So, >> okay. So, you've got the majority of it is student loans and that 270 does not include your mortgage. That's all consumer debt.

>> Um, nope. 27 straight student loans.

>> The 270 is just student loans.

>> Yep. 250 is our mortgage.

>> So, you have 250 on top of the 270.

>> Yep. >> Okay. What are your monthly bills right now? If you add up, you know, the basics, food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance, and minimum debt payments.

>> Oh, four walls. If we're just talking four walls, it'd be 5,400, but the debt are put to like 7,500.

>> And you guys are bringing home like $5,000.

>> Uh like 5,400.

>> Okay. Which is why you're going into credit card debt.

>> Yeah. It's just kind of um we're taking

our four walls and then we're trying to pay them and then it just got into a mess. So, we stopped paying the collections and we're trying to concentrate on the four walls like you know we're learning from you guys. Um but it's kind of blowing up in our face at the moment. >> I would agree. I think this the charity work passion project stuff needs to stop because we need to cover our own household right now.

>> Do you agree? >> I'm trying to Yes, I agree. I would be

finding anyone I know that works at a place that is hiring for any role that I am somewhat qualified for. So you think about content writing, copywriting, grant writing, um adjunct professor in

creative writing or English. Have you explored all of those? And do you know anyone who works at a place that has those positions?

>> Yes, I've been applying like crazy. I've been reaching out for networking. Um my I'm connected to all my old editors. um they're connecting me to other editors.

I'm I even reached out international. I have some friends international trying to get me at their universities so I can teach remote online. Anything you can think of like um I'm I'm jumping.

>> Can we look elsewhere for now and just do side hustles that have nothing to do with writing just to bring some income in the door?

>> Um the problem is I don't have any family support. So my husband's on call at work and that means no one would be able to watch my munchkin. That's why I have to do like remote that I'm >> What does he do for work?

>> He is a manager at a facility company.

>> And is there any upward mobility for him to climb up the ladder and make more make six figures?

>> He's been trying. So, we've been he's been applying the interviews, but he hasn't, you know, we're still trying, but he hasn't gotten one yet.

>> We're both trying everything we can think of, and he's been looking at other companies. So, we've both been networking. Um it's just kind of a we're

both kind of stuck at that but we're trying. >> Yeah. The the only variable that can move right now is the income. The debt's not going anywhere. There's nothing to sell off. We can't sell our master's degrees that we paid a4 million dollars for. So what we can do is utilize them to get that better job and make more money. >> Yeah. And this is a full-time job now.

This isn't a well, we're stuck, we're trying, and nothing's happening. No, it's nothing's happening yet, but we're going to continue to move like the mouse in the maze. Always moving towards the cheese. Uh, hang on the line. We got the proximity principle. It's my gift to you. You need to read this or if you want the audio book, we'll get that for you.

[Music]

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>> Well said. No notes.

>> Yeah. Stanley is up in Mobile, Alabama

where George >> hailed from college. Love that. Stanley,

how can we help?

>> Hey, how's it going? I uh hopefully got a quick question that you guys can uh answer. Smack a little bit of scent into me. >> We will determine that, Stanley. We will determine that.

>> Absolutely. My question is, should I gift the remainder of my uh daughter's

wedding budget back to her? And I can

give you a little bit of the background.

My oldest daughter from my first marriage just got married. Uh when they

initially got engaged, my wife and I, her stepmom, we set aside $10,000 and

that was kind of, hey, this is going to be your budget. Uh my daughter and her

husband, they decided that they were going to do a destination wedding, come down here, get married. Um and so it

actually ended up being a lot cheaper.

And originally it was going to be about $5,000.

my wife and I thought, "Cool. We can, you know, set aside this $5,000 and that would be a nice little uh, you know, like wedding gift, wedding present for them." Uh, as things went on, a couple

little expenses, you know, with wedding planning typically, as they always do, kind of arose. Um, so my wife and I, we

stepped in and we said, "Hey, don't worry. We got some money for this. We'll cover you guys." My wife did a ton of

planning for this wedding. uh she did the lion share for this and we never quite really felt like she got a thank you. Uh then to also add on top of it,

my daughter, while not a bad person by any means at all, but there's a few little things financially that we don't agree with uh that she does. Um you

know, she finances cars. As soon as she paid off a new car, we were so excited for her and then she turned around and bought bought another one. And so we're kind of sitting there a little uncomfortable with it. But then really the icing on the cake is she bought a

house with her husband and her mother.

So the three of them bought a house together. And

yeah, that's uh something that we definitely don't agree with. And so now we're sitting here, the wedding's all done, and we're like we now got about $3,500 back. And we're just a little bit

hesitant of if we should give this back to her or not. >> Yeah. I mean, okay, George, I don't know what you're experiencing right now, but I'm listening to the setup of this question and I'm and you finished it and I'm going, "This is not your idea to give her the $3,500 back. You just gave us a great case as to why you shouldn't.

Whose idea is this?"

>> Well, no. This was the original idea.

Now, my daughter doesn't know that there's this extra money with the budget. a question. Did you promise them, hey, we have 10,000 to give to you for the wedding? >> Whose idea was this? Answer the question. Was this originally the idea?

If you didn't spend any of it, you'd give her the extra. This was something you and your wife agreed to.

>> No. No, not at all. Uh, again, my daughter doesn't know that this money.

>> I know. But whose idea is this? Was it yours? You said, "I'll call Ken and George today and see what they think about the 3500." Was it your idea?

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. >> Well, you just talked yourself out of it, I thought, in the question.

>> Yeah. sounded like you needed to process it out loud in front of us and a few million people and you came to your own conclusion. >> Probably uh probably correct >> cuz here's the thing. You're not going to have peace about giving them this money.

You're going to resent them and they don't even know you resent them for it. >> Yeah. >> And they don't even know the money exists. You did what you said you were going to do, which is help cover the cost of the wedding.

You did that.

You didn't promise them if there was any money left over, they'd get it. So, just hang on to the money. >> Agreed.

Well, another little layer that I might add in is so I have two more daughters

with my current wife that are um they're

about 10 years younger than my oldest.

So again, wedding planning isn't on the horizon, but we're trying to sit here and we're trying to be like, are we going to be fair and equitable and we

stop? Stop. I can't I can't I can't bear

it. I'm trying to save you from yourself. I This is a separate deal. Th

this this you gave her the wedding that she wanted and there's $3,500 left over.

I don't know where fair and equitable comes in. That's my opinion. Now, America may disagree with me. George may disagree with you.

That's fine. But I think you drive yourself crazy here. So now all of a sudden, so now all of a sudden if you give her the 3500, that makes in your mind the 10,000 whole. And so the other two, well, what if weddings cost a lot more?

I don't even know how you did the wedding for 6,500. Listen to George talk. He tells me all the time about the average cost of weddings.

Are you with me, George? I will >> say it was it was the three families we went in together. And so we put up $5,000. So I mean um yes, you know, total. >> Are you guys in a better financial spot now? You have no debt.

>> Yeah, we're uh baby steps four, five, and six. Um we're great shape. Uh I'm

hoping my soft goal is call you back in about five years for one of those millionaire theme hours. um be able to talk to you guys then. >> So, >> I'd put the 3500 I'd put the 3500 towards the younger two daughters.

>> Okay. >> Uh you know what? I can't believe I'm admitting this, George, but you'll be very proud of me. >> Hit me. >> I have been putting uh a set amount away

above and beyond all the things. Uh

because I have one daughter and she's 16.

And I hear you talking about the cost of weddings and I'm likeay.

>> And I know your daughter. She's going to want a nice wedding. >> She is. And you also know my wife.

>> She's going to want her to have a nice wedding. >> So you know who's been putting money away for over two years.

>> Wow. >> I'm proud of you, man. That's big.

>> So I would I'd put when that's what I would do the 3500 or unless there's debt or anything else. Obviously >> what you can do is use it for your other financial goals and you got time to save. you got 10 years and so it's up to you how you do that. You may want to invest outside of retirement for a goal like this since you have a long time horizon, park it in index funds, you know, for 10 years and just kind of stack money away as it comes in and as you feel comfortable, set a goal for how much you guys want to invest per year and there's no fair, it doesn't have to be exactly what the other daughter got because who knows what weddings will cost 10 years from now.

>> Yeah, I agree. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Well, thanks for the call, Stanley. Uh George, this brings up a good point.

You you and Whitney will be invited to Jos's wedding. >> Oh, I can't wait. >> That's wild to think about. >> You're going to do your part and get a really great gift.

>> 100%. >> No cheap George. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

>> That would be nice for your guests to think about their >> set of items for you. >> Yeah. >> So, that's why I'm investing now. I'm a little I'm >> You're hoping the gifts are nice enough.

>> No, to offset the cost.

>> I don't know. I'm just I think I'm just >> now weddings wed myself some therapy right here. I can't believe it but it's going to happen and it's going to happen before it goes fast. Yeah.

>> And so you know what I decided I was like I'm going to get ahead of this.

>> So So it's a fund and it's guess what?

Ain't nobody going to be asking me for more money. >> Well, whatever's in there is what she gets. Is that >> it's going to be nice. >> Okay. >> My point is is that I'm not planning on that entire fund going to her wedding, but it it'll it'll take care of business. >> Yeah. But you my point is I'm not getting caught with that deal.

>> No, >> I'm not getting caught with oh I gota I got to come up with more money kind of a deal. >> However much money that's the budget and if she wants to save up with her future >> fiance you think is uh let's fast forward let's say 10 years from now.

What do you think is a reasonable amount for a wedding? Cuz you're tight.

>> Well, here's my thing. How many people are invited? You invite 250 people.

That's going to be an expensive wedding. You got 40 people. >> Uh let's >> we can have a super high quality.

>> Let's go 150.

150 you're probably in for 20 grand in this area minimum.

>> Kelly the producer is saying minimum more. What do you think the number is?

Give me a number. >> She's saying 50ast 10 years from now.

>> From 10 years from now. Yeah. At least 50.

>> Keep keep saving, Kenny boy. Keep saving. >> Sorry folks. I'm going to have to step away for a moment and sell some stuff online. Ken's about to sell his kidney.

>> George, is it me or is it getting hard to breathe in here? >> You are wearing a sweater. I'm going to sweat through that. >> Chest is tight. Heat.

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

By the way, uh George and I were just talking uh for a brief moment, just a little continuation here for a moment cuz I I I think this tradition ought to be brought back.

I was joking with George and I said, you know, I've only got one daughter. So once she finds the young man that that she wants to marry and he wants to marry her, he's got to come to me and offer, you know, pretty good sizable offering of cattle. Um, you know, I think she's probably worth a thousand cattle, thousand head of cattle, you know, >> endless. >> But maybe I'll do a hundred.

So is it goats? Is it cows? I mean, this is a thing that used to happen, George. You looked it up.

>> And I had to explain to Ken that's an HOA violation in his neighborhood. No, no, I wouldn't never take possession of them. I would just immediately resell them. So, it's old school, but maybe we should bring it back.

When did it end? It never ended. >> There was no single date.

>> They're not bringing it back. >> And neither am I. But it would be fun to kind of look at the young guy and go, "All right, there's what we're talking here." >> It'd make me nervous. I'd go, I'm not sure I want to marry this girl because my father-in-law is insane.

Oh boy, that's fun to me. I don't know why. We're having a good time. >> Well, uh, in the lobby here in Ramsey Solutions, across from our studio, we have a lovely couple, Jose and Maria, if I've got that right. Hi. How are you?

>> Hi. >> Where are you guys from? >> We're from LA. >> All right. Los Angeles, LA.

>> Yes. >> All right. And I guess you're here on the debtree stage to do a debtree screen. >> Yes. >> Absolutely. >> Oh, I love it. Okay. Give us the numbers. How much debt did you pay off?

We paid off $215,000

in four years. >> $215,000 in four years. I love it. And

what was the range of income?

So um initially we um man we started off

pretty low but um over the course of um

the years our income began to increase

and currently we um together we make aboutund and um

>> about 115.

>> So 115. So what would you say you started at? >> I think we started at about 98,000.

>> 98. So Mickey 98 to 115. Okay. Very

good. And what was the debt made up of?

>> Wow. Car loans, refi loans, um, credit

cards, student loans, >> solar panel. Everything we owned, we

financed because >> if we can get a payment on this, we're going to find a way. >> Yes, absolutely. Everything that we own, we financed. And um, it just became a

regular form of living, a regular part of life. And um it became something that

was just out of control. Um it it

>> So what what was that point would you say when you were like this is insane.

Why are we doing this? We got to figure out a way out of this. >> Yes. So we um we were sitting down doing

our taxes and we looked at each other and said, "Wow, we do pretty well um

with our income and yet our money comes

in and it comes right out. It comes in, it comes right out, and our debt's still the same, and we're paying bills after bills after bills, and it seems like we're never going to end.

>> And there were even there were even moments where we were overdrawn, and I'm like, how is this possible? Like, how is it even possible? And then that that was really the turning point.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, George. I'm just curious how you got connected to the Ramsay stuff.

>> Well, through through my wife, really.

Um, you know, she we had known about the

Ramsay show and she would listen. I wouldn't, I'll be honest. But when she brought it up, um, I was like, "No, no, I don't want to do anything." No. You know, uh, we're not going to be able to travel. We're not going to be able to go to the World Cup. We're not going to be able to do all the things that we do.

No. And, you know, >> our Disney passes. >> Our Disney passes. Yeah. And we even got into this big fight. And then finally, um, I was like, "All right, I'll go check it out." and we we went to um

started taking one of the classes and and that's how that's how it really began. >> Actually, we also had a friend um a

friend Carla and Edwin PZ who also came to the show and became Jeffree and we saw their dee scream a few years ago and we became instantly inspired. Um and so

that's when we decided to do the actual plan. And so the four years that it took us to pay off, we were following the

Dave Ramsey's um uh I guess program, but

intensely with FPU that was within the last 6 months that we really did and we were more aggressively and paying everything off. But I think if we had done the plan from the very very beginning, we probably would have paid everything off within maybe about two years, maybe even less. M that's interesting >> because it it the program really does hold you accountable and really does teach you the the principles that are based on on the Bible which was really convicting to both of us. Right?

>> That's really that's really what got me and you know when when it got to the biblical aspect of it I was like okay you know what I'm sold. Let's I'm all in. Let's do this. Okay. >> And >> and I think the hardest part was probably week two or three when um we were challenged to take a step of faith.

And for me it was cashing out the little

bit of savings that we had for our our daughter skiing sa which to us is a huge deal in the Mexican tradition, right?

And we had a little bit of money saved, but then we had this enormous amount of debt, right? And so we thought, why do we have all of this debt yet we have a little bit of cash? FPU says put it into

the debt, right? That makes sense. And and we thought we were betraying our daughter, right? And I remember crying and just like really debating with him like does this have further implications, you know, what is my daughter going to say? And so that was one of the hardest things because we really had to rely on God to for his provision, right? That um his his um his

love and value for her was not based on just a a a a ceremony of um of coming of

age, but it was beyond that. and also our faith and that that he would provide for something like that, right? Because he cares about things like that as well.

And um and now that we are in baby step number five, that we're in baby step number five, um we're actually going to start um cash flowing for her kinsa. In about six months, we'll be done with that. >> Awesome. Good. >> Yes. >> That's fantastic. >> But Alanso also did a huge um sacrifice.

Do you want to tell them? >> Yeah. I had just I had just leased an an Audi and uh I think it was on the third

class where where I I I turned and I

looked at my wife and I said, "You know what? We're returning it." And she was like, "What?" And I was like, "You just got it." I was like, "Nope, we're returning it. It's it's a bad investment. That's what Dave Ramsey says. Um I go, "The Lord has us covered.

I don't know, you know, the outcome of it, but I know we're going to be covered, and this is what we need to do." and May May of this year I returned

it. Uh the lease is actually over uh in

December, >> but we finished paying it. I'm like, "Nope, let's return it." And they tried selling me >> like four more of their new cars and these deals and I was like, "Nope, I don't want it. We're good." And yeah, they it was tough, but we were able to to do it. >> We're back to your old Honda. >> Yeah, back to my old Honda and it's still going. So, >> good. Good for you. So, what would you all tell people the key is to getting out of debt if you could single out one discipline?

>> Whoa. You want to go for first?

>> Um, support each other and and encourage each other. Pray together and um and you know there there there's going to be moments of frustration. I know you know there was times where I'm like I'm done with this. I don't want to do it. But, you know, the outcome is is is great.

Along with that, I would say also find um a community support because I think the class again it made the world of a difference. I knew about the principles of FPU through the show, right? But it wasn't until we were in the class together with Irene and with Ana that we really held each other accountable, learned from each other. We got on the app and all of those tools made such a huge impact. Um, it kept us on uh it

kept us accountable. It kept us on track. The monitoring, the graphs, all of those things made a huge impact. And it does give you those rewards, right?

The chemical rewards. I mean, and and and I know this. I'm a therapist. I'm a >> All right. Listen, speaking of rewards, if we don't let you get to the screen, we're going to run out of time.

>> So, are you guys ready to scream? Yes.

>> All right. That's why we're here. Here we go. We got Jose and Maria from Los

Angeles. They paid off $215,000 in four years, making 98,000 to 115.

Jose and Maria, take it away. Let's hear your debtree scream.

>> WHAT? >> WE ARE DEBT FREE.

>> We are in fact.

>> How about that, George? >> Just in the nick of time.

>> We got it. >> What a story. A lot of sacrifice. You know, Jose liked the finer things in life, but they weren't doing fine emotionally and spiritually, and now they're truly free. So proud of them.

[Music]

Our

[Music]

[Music] scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 17:9. Love prospers when a fault is forgiven, but dwelling on it separates close friends. And our quote today from Bernard Meltzer. A true friend is someone that thinks you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked.

Thank you, Bernard. I'll ponder that.

>> Oh, that's funny. George Casey is up in

Long Island, New York. Casey, how can we help? >> Hey guys, thanks for taking the call.

Um, so I have a heating and air conditioning company that is starting to fail and I don't know if I should start reinvesting money into it or kind of call it quits. >> Okay. Well, first we need to try to identify or do we know why it's failing?

>> So about a year ago, I inherited a

property that I started uh focusing more on than the business. Um, and the

the tech that I had working for me, uh, that was like the senior guy, if you will, has been calling in sick too much.

We're losing a lot of accounts. Um, so

I've seen it happening. It It's not like a shock to me. I didn't wake up this morning and be like, "Oh, no, the business is failing." But I I've I've

you know when I initially started in working on this other property, I I knew this was going to start happening. Um as

far as how fast it's happened is a little more concerning to me since he's

been, you know, he's kind of on his way out as well. So now um >> like you're firing him.

>> I mean I I don't think I'm firing him. I think he's kind of quitting himself.

He's been calling in sick, you know, out of two out of every five days, you know.

>> Okay. And you're not working really in this business. You've neglected it >> for the most part, you know.

>> Was it just you and him? >> I'm doing like the back end of it, you know. >> Was it just you and him prior to you getting this property?

>> It was me, him, and then I was training another uh younger fella.

>> So, this is a super small business. So the way So the way you set it up is should I reinvest in it?

>> And I was immediately like, well, I'm not going to tell anybody to reinvest in anything that's failing until we know why it's failing. And now we know why it's failing. And it's failing because you just literally have not been doing anything. And you got one guy who maybe he enjoyed doing it when you were involved with him, maybe he didn't, maybe life has changed for him, whatever. But the reality is is that this company is you. And the thing

that's curious to me is that you said, "I knew this was going to happen." In other words, I knew the business was going to start to falter if I spent time on this property. So, I got to believe, Casey, that means that you thought this property was going to make you more money than this business. Is that the logic there?

>> No. Um, >> then why would we knowingly buy and put time and money into something that we know is going to hurt our primary business?

So, this this company is not the primary business. >> It's about your primary income.

>> No. >> What do you do full? >> Well, that would have been nice to know. What What's What is this? A side hustle?

>> Uh, yeah. I mean, I I started this about seven years ago. I've built it up to a $500,000 a year company.

>> What's your primary income?

>> It's last year I netted about Well, no,

I'm sorry. I had taxable income about 500,000. >> Doing what?

>> Uh laundromats and real estate.

>> Okay. Well, that would have been nice to know 5 minutes ago. So, I >> Perfect. So, this is one of several businesses and you're saying, "Should I try to keep this one alive?" No. No. You clearly don't care about it.

>> I I do. I do care about it.

>> Oh my gosh. If this was a human being, if this was your wife and you neglected her, I said, "Man, what what I know I care about her. I just uh neglected her for the last nine months while I worked on this other thing. Dude, you don't care enough about the business to keep it alive and I would not put a dime into it.

Yeah, reinvesting is not going to do anything if there's nobody to do the work.

>> Uh you got a half a million dollar income that's, you know, just reoccurring income because you've got all these laundromats. So, I don't know why you would try to express to us that you care about it because you called us going, "Hey guys, should I should I give this thing a go or not, which means you weren't you were on the fence?" >> Well, I wanted to in the beginning I was hoping for just an unbiased opinion

regarding, you know, what other incomes I had. Well, but but my point is I appreciate that, but the reason we wasted all that time and me not be able to give you good answers because we have to determine whether or not this is a smart move for you to put money in this business, I'm thinking it was your primary income because I didn't have any other evidence. >> So now we know you don't need the income. >> So you need focus. >> Yeah. Yeah. You're chasing too many rabbits.

>> Yeah. >> So what's going on with this property? You inherited it. You put a bunch of money into it. Are you trying to flip it? Are you trying to rent it out?

>> No. So, um, the property I inherited, it

was in a trust for the last 20 years.

The trust finally came due. Um, it was

my grandfather's property. He had a laundromat in there, which I'm currently operating.

Um, and that needs to be renovated. It was neglected for 20 years. Nobody literally did anything there.

>> Okay. So, you've been investing into that. Are you doing this all with cash or are you in debt?

>> No, this is all cash. Um, and I'm primarily doing it myself.

>> Okay. So, do you want to focus your time? What's your What's your real question here? Because I would drop this business. What's at stake here if you cut the HVAC business completely?

>> Um, nothing besides uh $7,000

left on my truck payment.

>> You told me you didn't have any debt.

>> Well, that's business debt, not personal debt. >> Uh, buddy Casey signed on that. That's

Casey's debt.

Okay. All right. Sorry. The business has 7,000 in debt. >> You have 7,000 in debt. So, you can sell the truck, right?

>> Uh, I mean, I could pay off the debt.

>> Are you going to keep the truck?

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I I use that for for for everything. >> Other things. Okay. So, pay off the truck today and sell whatever equipment that you don't need anymore and just be done with the business. That's a better deal than investing into a business that will continue to fail because nobody's got their eyes on it.

and then just put your focus on what really matters, the stuff that you really enjoy that also has the most ROI for you. That's what I would do personally. >> Yeah, I agree. And and to your initial initial question, there's really nothing to reinvest. Um, you just got your

senior tech has found other opportunities or feels like he can take advantage of you because you're so checked out. It's one of the two as to why it's two days a week that the guy's sick. So, >> well, I don't I don't know if it's if it's that really that or if he's actually really having >> medical issues. >> Well, the fact that you don't know tells me that you're you're hands off.

So, reinvesting is your time. So, maybe for 30 days you get back involved and you pay attention. And then you see, >> is this thing worth shutting down or is this thing worth keeping? It's pretty it's going to be pretty simple.

You're so handsoff right now. You don't know if the guy's got black lung or if he's just messing, you know, he's just lying to you. You don't know. >> No, no.

I mean, I'm not I I see him every day. I talk to him every day. I'm I'm doing all the backend stuff.

>> The reason why the business started failing is I stopped doing service calls, >> right? >> And you're not going to start is what I'm saying. Say reinvest. You don't have the time or passion to reinvest and therefore just get out of the business. >> Yeah. Now I'm more convinced now that I'm getting >> I've also been interviewing trying to hire more technicians. The van

that we have, we have two vehicles. The the one is has 175,000 miles on it. It

has been more in the shop than it's been on the road lately. I wanted to buy a new vehicle to get another tech out there. That was the reinvestment part.

>> Okay. Well, we're taking information as you give it to us.

It's like >> I I don't know how much to give without, you know, you know what I mean? Well, it's when you ask for advice, >> uh, just future advice for you. When asking for advice from other people, give them all the information at once.

It makes it a little easier. Uh, George, I'm with you. >> I don't think getting an a different van for the work is going to solve this cuz you still got to find people who care and I don't want to work with a guy who's, you know, got one foot out of the business who doesn't care. >> So, I would maybe sell the book of business for what you can get for it and maybe that'll pay off the truck and just be done, man.

>> Yeah. And uh I >> You don't need to run 19 businesses. No, you're doing great. >> Sounds like the laundromat business is really good in Long Island.

Who would have thought? >> People got to do laundry.

>> What would I call it, George?

>> Uh what would be a good name for my laundry? >> I think just laundromat. That's what people look for when they look for I think just keep it clear. >> It's good branding. >> All right. Hey folks, remember this.

There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 2. "My Debt Payment is 50% of My Income" | November 3, 2025


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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number is88255225LE88255225.

All right, we're going to get to your calls coming up very soon. Really fun

story from my colleague here. You may know her journey. She and Sam are hubs paid off half a million dollars in debt.

She gets you, folks. If you're in debt, she gets you. She really does. Fun story I asked her to share. I've gotten to know her and Sam very well. And so that's coming up. You don't want to miss that. Those of you who are kind of on that edge today, you're going, "Can I do this? Can I make it?

>> You can make it." >> She's going to tell you how. It's going to be fun. But first, Jack is up in Indianapolis, Indiana. Jack, how can we

help today? >> Hey guys, uh, thank you so much for taking my call. I um I bought a RV for 60,000 um on a 15-year

loan at 18% interest.

>> Wow. Why'd you do that?

>> Um, I'm realizing how bad of a decision it was. It was to live in um to save up

eventually for a house. Um, and uh I'm

realizing like the interest is um 800 a month on just interest.

>> My goodness.

only 50 bucks goes to the principal and I'm realizing it'll be like 16 months before I even scratch the surface under what I borrowed. >> So, uh I was wondering cuz obviously I

want to get out of it now. Um >> I started the the baby steps. Um all I

had was like like a thousand personal

loan, 2,000 personal loan. I had some student loans. Um, I had some credit cards, but uh I I only made 2,000 a

month when I bought it. So, I don't even know how I got approved for it, >> right? >> But, um, >> subprime >> one one by one. And, uh, I got rid of

everything except for the camper. Um, my income's about 4,000 a month now.

>> Okay. >> So, um, >> where are you living?

Uh, um, I got a job as a truck driver, so in the truck.

>> Okay.

Okay. >> Are you okay? >> You don't You don't sound okay. >> You sound very okay to me. And maybe it's just your voice, but I'm just sensitive. >> I'm really nervous. I'm really nervous.

I just >> Okay. >> Yeah. No, I'm good. >> Okay. Great. >> Okay. So, you've got Did I understand correctly when you said you got rid of all the other debt except this RV?

>> Yeah. Everything. Um. >> Okay. Good. I did make a little mistake.

I know you're supposed to save a thousand first and with the first thousand I put it towards the deck.

>> Um >> Okay. >> And but yes, I have my $1,000.

Everything else is gone. >> Good. >> Except for this camper >> and you still owe 60. What's it worth if you were to sell it?

>> Uh the dealership offered 31.

>> Oh, lordy. But what if you were to sell it private sale? Have you looked into that? I have it. I have it listed for 38. And um I've been trying to call the

show for a couple months now. So I owe

uh 4 uh8 on it now. >> You owe 48 on it now. And you could sell it for 31.

>> 38. I just got it listed at 31.

>> 38. >> So you're a 10ou it's a $10,000 deficit

there. What keeps you from going down to a credit union or going down to a bank or getting any kind of loan to to to

clear this out? Why don't we do that?

>> I uh canceled my credit cards when I removed them and it brought my credit score down pretty low. >> Uhhuh. >> What about a credit union?

>> Have you gone into a bank to see? Cuz at this point, here's here's my thinking on this. My rationale is there's not a worse loan than the one you have. And this is going You're going down. You're going from $48,000 of debt to $10,000 of

debt. I'm going to take that deal every time. >> Even if even if the terms aren't great.

>> Well, yeah, because you're going to knock it out. You make 4,000 bucks a month. You knocked out the other debt. Why can't you knock out this $10,000 of debt very quickly?

>> That's true. Um I I was uh cuz I was

trying to rent it as well to see if I could try to get money out of it. Um,

>> but every moment you wait, it's dropping in value because because you're in such a bad loan, right? The interest alone is $800 a month. >> So, you got time is not on your side, my friend. >> Listen, we're coming to you from the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'd call our friends at Fairwinds and say, "Hey, I was just on the show with Jade and Ken and here's my situation and uh I I've

made progress. Will you guys help me out?" And and and and if they can help me out, they will. And to your to Jade's

point, then if we can sell this thing and then they take over the loan for the the the minimal amount you're going to have left, you can knock that out. So, you want to get rid of this because this is a depreciating asset. That's why she's telling you that you got to get rid of it. >> I would only And for anybody listening who's like, Jay told him to get a loan.

She told him to take it out on a credit card. She told him to take a bad loan.

We're going down, people. We're going from 48 down to 10. We're not going up.

He's not taking a loan to go into debt.

He's taking a lesser loan to get out of debt. So that's the difference there for anybody who's trying to clock something that's [laughter] not there.

>> Yeah. Uh and now what is this is this truck job what's your opportunity to make more money than the 4,000 a month?

>> Um well in the beginning um it was like

that's what I was getting because uh I was in training. Um I also do all the services on his trucks because he owns um he owns a trucking company. So I do all the mechanic work on them >> um for side money on cash when I am uh at Indianapolis >> um cuz it is long haul.

>> So as we look forward, how much more additional money can you make then the 4,000?

>> 4 to 6,000 a month I'd say take home.

>> All right. And long-term is is this a great opportunity for you to get to the six figure range?

>> Uh it seems like it. Yeah.

>> Okay. All right. Well, what's the lesson here uh that you've learned? You know, because a lot of times we'll teach out of this. I want people to hear from you today because you're you're sitting in this calling us with a pit in your stomach. So, what's the lesson for everybody else? >> Don't get the dealership uh markups.

Don't get the warranty stuff. Um don't

buy new. Like, ask someone older than

you. >> Yeah. >> You know, I haven't Yeah. Uh it's I'm

I'm definitely not doing that anymore.

>> Yeah. How old are you, Jack?

>> I just turned 20. >> 20 years of age. >> You learned a great lesson at a young age, my friend. >> That's awesome. >> I wish I wish it didn't cost 60,000.

>> Yeah, that's all right. But it's a good lesson to learn. Hey, no one no one gets out if let me not no one. Few people get

out unscathed when you when you walk into the real world, right? You get out of college, you start your life as an adult. Few Jack uh get out of this

without making major mistakes. That's how we learn. And for you, I want you to look at this. Don't look at it as, "Oh my gosh, my mistake. I ruined my life." Just look at it as some research you did. You did a little bit of research and you found out that buying an RV to live in or buying anything that goes down in value is not a good idea. Now you can stick that in your pocket and keep it as a knowledge base for later.

>> Yeah. I love it. Makes me think of the old song. >> What? >> By Ray Charles.

>> Hit the road, Jack. And don't you come back. No more. No more. No more. Hit the road, Jack. That's what he's saying to debt. >> That's good. >> Yeah. Come on. You know, sometimes I think of these old school things. Now, if Rachel were next to me, she'd have no idea what I'm talking about. >> I thought you were going to say something totally different. >> No. Hit the road, Jack. I like it. He got on the road in the 18-wheeler. He's getting after it. He's 20 years of age.

He learned his lesson. I love his lessons. He did a great job, America.

You You heard Jack. And uh he's going to be okay. He's going to do great. He's only 20 years of age. He learned a big lesson. Now he's on the road to being debtree.

[music]

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[music]

[music]

Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw uh hanging out with you today. And uh I Jade,

[music] Stacey and I, we've gotten to be really good friends with you and Sam and and as we get to know you guys, your story is so powerful. And and it occurred to me today that there are a lot of people coming in all the time. We have some people that are, you know, baby step one, they're just trying to get >> all right, >> $1,000. That's a scramble.

>> It's tough. >> Uh there are some people that are in baby step two and they're looking at that mountain and they're just trying to get some momentum. And it just occurred to me that you've got some incredible stories, not the least of which uh is

from the mountain that you climbed.

>> Yeah. >> $500,000 you two went through. We were we were at dinner recently and you we were talking about some of the crazy things and crazy stories. >> Yeah. >> So I want just to bring it in because

story is what connects to people, >> right? >> Take us to one of maybe the more memorable moments from your journey of paying off that kind of money. What comes to mind? I mean, if I really think about it, the story the story that stands out probably most to me is probably that I've had it moment, Ken, because I think we've all been there where you've kind of understood, hey, I need to make some changes with my money.

I probably need to get on this plan that Ramsay's talking about, and you you start it and you feel like you're you're doing the thing, but you're still so frustrated, right? How many people have started the Ramsey plan and they kind of feel like they're taking two steps forward, one step back, cuz life hits, right?

And I I remember that, at least for me,

uh I woke up in the morning, and the first thing that woke me up in the morning was my phone buzzing.

>> And when I looked at the number, it it was 1-800 Pay Me, which is what I call the debt collectors. [laughter] It was a credit card. And you know, back

then I was kind of in avoidance mode. So I just hit this the the the button so that it would go to voicemail and then 5 minutes later it buzzed again.

>> And then 10 minutes later it buzzed again. >> Not how you want to start a day. >> Well, I that was the way I started my days. That was just the way it was because what I didn't realize, I wasn't doing what the plan taught.

I wasn't paying minimum payments on everything and then putting the extra money to the smallest. I was just trying to put all the money on the smallest debt.

Back then, we were doing a bunch of side hustles and a lot of times we'd get paid in cash and then we'd have to take the cash to the bank to deposit it so that we could actually pay our bills. And so, that day we were going to deposit like 300 bucks in cash to the bank so that we could pay our rent. And on the way to the bank, the phone buzzed and it buzzed

again and it buzzed again. And when I

tell you, Ken, I lost it.

>> I lost it. I was like, "Pull I pull the car over." That's what I told Sam. I said, "Pull the car over." And he's like, "Okay, okay." Like, "Is it me?

What did I do?" But you know, Sam, he's like, "When Jade gets like this, I just need to listen." >> Right. Right. >> So, he pulled the car over and I proceeded to just go go off.

>> I was like, "We've been working this plan. We've been doing everything right.

What do we have to show for it?" You know, and I I was so angry. And the worst part of it was here we are. I'm going off. We're sitting in our Jeep, which has payments on it.

>> The AC barely works, right? And it's South Florida, so it's hot. And you know, the moment you slow down, the AC stops working even more. So, we're just sitting in this hot butt car >> just, you know, and I'm crying and Sam is like, "Oh my gosh, like what do I do?" M >> and I remember I picked up the money that we were supposed to be depositing.

And I said, "Let's just give this to the credit card company so they can stop calling me. $300." They wanted like $298. And back then, that felt like

>> the world. I would have done anything to get that money in that moment. But I feel like I had already I was already doing the side hustles. I was already working full time. Like I was already doing everything. And I was ready to give them my rent money. Mhm.

>> And Sam was like, "We can't do that." He was like, "We can't do that. We have to stay the course. We have to do what we know to do." And I remember for like the next 2 hours, we just sat. And it was kind of like we went after all the emotions subsided, we sat and went through it all with a fine tooth comb and was like, "What are we missing?

What are we missing here? What are we doing wrong? Cuz it shouldn't feel like this." And that's when we figured out, hey, we're not doing it correct. We're putting all of our money to the smallest debt.

We're not we're not paying the minimums first. We don't have $1,000 saved.

That's why we're trying to give them rent money. That's why and sometimes that's what we have to do when we feel those moments of frustration like our emotions are taking over. We have to stop and go, "What am I missing?" And it's almost like you need to do an audit and go back over your behavior because when you're in this plan, there's so much that we're throwing at you. Save $1,000.

Do it like this. Stop eating out. Stop your withholding. Stop your, you know, change your W4.

All that kind of stuff. And it can be hard to remember it all and before you do it, you think before you know it, you're you're missing something. Something's a little bit off. And it's all with the best of intentions.

But that's just one of the many ways that our emotions can make us want to give up. They can kind of throw a wrench in the whole thing and it everything just grinds to a halt.

I really care about that because I hear it all the time in calls. >> Yeah. I'm going to ask you from your journey plus the calls that you've now you've sat in thousands of calls.

>> All right. What is one of the most prevalent, one of the most obvious emotions that you see in this debt-free journey getting control of your money?

What's an emotion that you see pretty commonly? >> I mean, what I just gave an example of would be frustration. But what we hear a lot here on the calls, it's anger.

>> It's that anger of wait a second, I did everything right. The culture said I'm supposed to, you know, go to college. if I go to college and get a good degree, I'll be successful. So, I get a student loan for that because that's what they said to do and I did it.

And then when I graduated, I was told that I could celebrate and get a car loan because that's what you do when you graduate. So, I got my car loan and then I got married and I bought a house. I did everything right. Why am I up to my eyeballs in debt and stress?

you're a person who It's kind of like what Dr. Johnny Dr. Johnny Dr. John Deloney would say.

>> Let's please start calling him Johnny Deloney. >> Dr. Johnny, >> that's funny. uh you know he would say not by my hand but in my lap and a lot of us are dealing with that.

It's like we didn't cause the financial struggle but here we are left to deal with it >> and it makes us mad. You know I thought the government was going to pay off my student loans. I waited. I did the public service student loan thing.

They didn't come in. They didn't hold up their end of the bargain. So there's a lot of things that have caused us to be disenchanted with the whole thing. And that anger is real.

I'm hearing this, correct me if I'm wrong, what you really believe based on your own experience >> and then coaching a lot of people

>> is that winning with money isn't just about our process. It's also winning with the emotions that come with this process. Is that what I'm hearing?

>> Absolutely. I think that >> that's the key to winning though with those emotions. How do you how do you deal with those emotions and stay on track? >> You know what I learned? It's endurance.

You have to embrace endurance because endurance produces maturity. That's that's truly what the Bible says. >> That's exactly what it says. >> But I learned that running a marathon.

>> When I ran and I'm talking about an actual marathon, not a financial marathon. >> I can vouch for this. >> She's a warrior princess. >> When you when I started when I said I want to run this marathon, the first thing that came was, oh my gosh, it's going to be hard.

Oh my gosh. Uh it's going to last for three months. There's a there's a long time period that you have to embrace. there's a discomfort that you have to embrace.

I remember midway through training, my Achilles was hurting, my quads were hurting, but you have to run anyway, right? Then you go out there and some days it's raining and you have the the weather's not good and you have to run anyway because you know if you just follow the process, if you just do the training, you will cross the finish line. That is a given. And millions of people have done it before me.

So if I just accept the process, if I can get to a point of acceptance that I have to just endure this thing, a hard thing for a long period of time, I can win.

The conditions are not always going to be favorable. There's going to be pain.

There's going to be discomfort. You're going to have to do it day after day after day. And sometimes it gets harder before it gets easier. But if you keep going, you will cross your finish line.

So, that's a fun example right there of

just a smidge of something I know you're very excited about. I'm holding in my hands something really, really cool.

>> Look at that, Ken Coleman. >> It's uh first of all, it's a fabulous picture of you. >> Thank you. >> Good grief. >> Well, for those listening, it's a book.

>> Did you do a couple push-ups before they took that picture? >> That was after the marathon. >> So, for those [laughter] listening, I'm holding in my hands your brand new book.

It's called What No One Tells You About Money: The Real Key to Getting Unstuck from Someone who's been there. And that's just one of the amazing stories.

Just real quick, tell folks how they can get this. This is exciting. >> Yeah. Go to ramseyolutions.com/store.

You can pick one up. It's on pre-sale, guys, today. Please, if you've ever been

stuck, if you've ever wanted to throw up your hands, if you're sick of taking two steps forward, one step back, if you just need something, you're like, Jade, how what can I do? This is the book for you. I'm not just an expert yapping at you. I am your buddy walking with you, getting kneede in the emotions with you.

>> Get it right now. ramiesolutions.com/store.

Pre-order and you get a $100 plus in free bonus items.

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[music] >> All right, let's go to Elijah who's joining us in Oregon. Elijah, how can we help today? strong name. I like it.

>> How's it going? >> How's it going? Biblical name. That's what everyone always tells me. I'm happy to have it. >> That's right.

>> What's going on? >> Um, so, uh, basically I'm going to try and, uh, tell this story as concisely as possible. Um, but it is kind of a tricky one. So, basically, um, I was engaged to a girl and, uh, we were together for a few months. Um, I mean engaged for a few months. We were together for, uh, over a year. But um she started expressing doubts and ultimately she told me she wanted to end the engagement.

>> And around that time we found out that we were pregnant together.

>> Oh. >> Um yeah. So I um I was adamant about,

hey, I think we should really try and stay together for the kid sake. I think we should follow through with staying together. And so she was open to it for a little while. I moved her into my place. She has two kids, so we moved the whole family. Um, and uh, but ultimately

I think she just kind of felt trapped being at my place and she she ended up leaving and going back to her place. She got her u her ex-boyfriend, one of her other kids' fathers to help her move and he was kind of helping her out for a week. And um yeah, and so she she left

and uh I was working on a wildfire at the time and uh when I got off um I guess she get you know her uh her ex-boyfriend kind of went out of state to go work a job and so she kind of started reaching out back out to me for help and uh she doesn't really want to be together but she's been um she's been asking for a lot of financial support and she hasn't really guaranteed me that I'm going to even get to have like a relationship with my you know with our baby on the way.

She's pretty adamant about just wanting to raise raise her on her own and then just kind of receive child support. >> And so she's not open to any kind of 50/50 custody or anything like that. And um >> Oh wow. >> You know, so I I wanted to be helpful to her.

Obviously, she's the mother of this child, you know, that we created. Um but it's really hard to not kind of feel like I'm I'm just sort of being taken advantage of. Um we kind of agreed on that I would I would give her a little bit of money out of each paycheck to kind of help her out. She gets she was getting a little bit of child support from her other fathers.

Um but um but even that she hasn't really been getting lately cuz they like lost their job. The other one's working under the table. >> Do they have do do her other two kids have two separate dads?

>> Yeah, two separate fathers. I would be the third father to have a kid with >> situation. I hate this that this is happening to you because this is tough.

Really tough emotionally.

>> But man, you've dodged a bullet.

This [laughter] I'm Listen, I'm not >> okay. >> No, I mean I'm I'm saying like just you have dodged this is not a a woman that I

think you want to settle down with.

We've got two other dudes, two other kids. She is taking advantage of you.

You She doesn't want you in the picture.

She doesn't value you. Assuming that everything you're telling us is true.

>> Let me ask you straight up, Elijah. Uh what what did you do? Did you do anything or are you completely innocent holding a bag? Like did did you do anything to cause this to come to an end?

>> I mean, I want to try and be as honest as I can. Um but the reason I'm calling you guys is because I feel like what she and I have been doing is like I'll talk to my people and they'll be like, "Well, she's taking advantage of you." And then she'll talk to her people and they'll say, "Well, he's not stepping up as a man or whatever." Okay. And so I would say that the main problems I can tell you what she's expressed what her problems with me were.

Like um it would be stuff like uh I would put on an audio Bible at night and accidentally wake her up and she thought that was inconsistent. >> Not you listening to the Bible. Come on.

[laughter] >> I I mean I think it was more >> Hold on a second. All right. Hold on a second. I think everybody knows that I took you at face value, but now I'm starting to doubt you when you dropped the Bible. That's the first thing that she griped about. Are you shooting me straight? >> Nothing. I'm telling you this because that was um that was uh the night before she left. >> How late at night was Okay, I got to do a follow-up. America needs to know this.

How late at night was it?

>> Um I don't know. It might have been 10 or 11 or something.

>> It might It might have been It might have been in the middle of the night. It might have been like uh like I woke up to get a glass of water and I was having trouble sleeping or something. >> And so you're right next to her. So you're right next to her listening to the Old Testament.

[laughter] >> I'd be pissed too. I don't care if it's the Bible or not. But I'm trying to sleep. Go to the living room.

But that doesn't sound like But but that doesn't sound like worthy of this. >> Yeah. I was trying to get at did you do anything like did you cheat? Did you Were you being a jerk in some kind of way?

Okay. I was listening to your Bible arguments, but >> All right. Do you Do you not understand? >> No.

It was like >> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> Well, I just want to ask you, you laughed when I said it, and I don't mind being laughed at.

[laughter] >> I'm sitting right here. It really does.

Uh, do you not understand what I mean when I say you dodged a relationship bullet here? As hard as this is, and I hate that the custody thing is a thing. I got a lady in the front row. This is a wise woman. I can just see and she's giving me a thumbs up. So, that means I'm right. >> Uh, which is rare, too.

>> Uh, you know, you've dodged a bullet and I share that to say this is painful.

This is tough. >> Um, but I think you need to understand that what you have a responsibility to is child support. >> That's right. So, I would uh on the fin, let me tie this up in in my opinion.

>> Um, and then I got an outlier towards the end here, okay? And I want to get out of the way, let Jade weigh in, but I'll say that uh I think part of your healing needs to be >> I really dodged a bullet here. This is a very complex relationship I was in. It's

messy. She does not seem like long-term

material to me. I'm not judging, folks.

I call balls and strikes. Okay? Uh and and so we dodged a bullet. That should help you recover a little bit quicker.

Two, uh I'm okay with you continuing to

give her the money that you agreed to because you said it was a small amount and and I would keep your word unless she does something that would then morally disqualify her. And you go, "Well, you didn't keep your word. I'm going to keep mine." And then I would wait for the judge to >> She continues to ask for more and she's been spending on things that aren't essential. >> That's not your problem. Tell me what hold on a second. Sorry. Hold on. It's not your problem. >> I don't care how many times she asks.

You give her what you agreed to, unless she violates the agreement, then you don't have to give her anything. And then I'd wait for the judge to tell you because the judge is going to tell you. >> Well, and I want to know what that amount is. What are you giving her now?

>> It was uh I basically went off of what she got child support from from her other people. And it was something like um it was something like 250 to 300 out

of every like couple weeks. And so it was only like 500 a month. But I went back and ultimately I was giving her because she would continue asking for more. And ultimately it was like two to three times as much as what I ended up giving her.

Uh I I want to jump in here because there is part of this I I want to know more because the truth is if you were taking care of because the child support obviously it needs to start while she's pregnant because she's carrying the baby. So usually it's based off of a percentage of what you're earning. So likening it to the other guys.

>> Ah I get why you're doing it but it might not necessarily be fair if you were making more than them and if you are were in a situation where you were previously providing more. Um, so there's part of that that I want to be fair to the baby and fair to what it actually takes to carry.

>> We need to get a judge involved in this >> and you need to do that sooner than later. But >> but not give her any more money. Don't give her anymore till we get a judge involved. You give her what you said you're going to give her.

I'm going to take a hard line on that one cuz she's asking for more and she's she's manipulating you and she's holding that baby over you. I don't like it. One of the one of the concerns is like obviously just kind of like there's you know um and that's kind of one why I wanted to talk to you guys because obviously there's a lot of emotional parts involved for me but her her two fathers her only income source is child support. She she lives for free on her grandmother's um problem but her her only income is child support and so her two fathers basically stop paying child support.

but I mean she you know she's the mother of my child. Like I obviously don't want her to go hungry while she's growing our baby. >> I understand that your your only commitment is is whatever the fair and equitable child support number is. If you want to give more than that, you can.

But she's manipulating you right now. The very nature of that question is a guy who's been manipulated emotionally. And I get it. You got a good heart.

But she will take advantage of this. Her two deadbeat dudes that she got pregnant with the first time. That's her problem and their problem. It's not your problem.

This is a country music song is what this is. This entire call is a number one hit. And I know because we're in music city. I mean you if you got any musical talent, you might want to write this one.

It could really take off. >> In the meantime, in the meantime, Elijah, go online and look at just kind of some standards to get an idea. I'm looking here. Standard is usually 17% for one child, 25% for two, 29% for three.

how she's carrying your baby today. So, you need to weigh you need to weigh that in. I'm not saying be taken advantage of, but I'm just saying >> she's a mess. No matter how much money this guy gets, >> but it's all together. It's all together is all I'm saying. >> I get it. >> I'm thinking of the baby. >> It's a country music song. Somebody write that.

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All

right, let's go to Taylor who's joining us now in Cleveland, Ohio. Taylor, how can we help today?

>> Hi there. So, my question is, uh, my

husband started a side hustle last year,

um, doing home inspections. So, this is not his full-time career gig. Uh, this

is just something that he thought would be lucrative and, um, I think he just really wants to be a business owner, and I appreciate that about him.

>> My question is, um, so we we have no

debt on the business. Praise Jesus. Um but upfront we spent about $13,000 like

for him to go to school to get his permits, all the equipment he you know he needed. Um and then every month we're

paying like $300ish dollars for the program that like the software he uses um our insurance and all of that like business insurance. >> Okay. So, and obviously home inspections

are not super um consistent like they

can, you know, vary every month. So, I guess my question is >> at what point do we say this business is

costing us money every month? It's not making us anything. >> It's not profitable at all.

>> Well, okay. So, like I said, it varies.

So, like this month, he's had no home inspections at all. So, we have been paying the $300 on all these things that we need to sustain the business.

>> Uhhuh. >> But haven't made any money.

>> Um, >> what about over the life of two home inspection? >> You got to look at it over the life of the business. When did he start it?

>> He started So, he he was off the ground in March. >> Okay. And since March, >> how much has You got to look at it as it is. Since March, how much he's brought in? It's just, >> you know, a balance sheet. how much he's brought in minus how many expenses and what's what's the number.

>> So with a debt of about well not debt but what we paid out about 13,000 um >> plus the 300 a month >> he's done >> yes he's done about eight home inspections at roughly like $400 a

piece. >> Okay. >> Um >> so 32 >> right and that's that is all at this

point. >> Okay. And do you guys have you decided at what point the break even should be and at what point he should be profitable? Because here's the thing. If you guys didn't set out what the plan is, then we don't know at what point to pull the trigger. Because >> it's fair it's fair to say it's going to take some time to earn a profit. But once he starts turning it, everything after that is profit. So once he makes 13,000 uh or 14,000 with the $300 a

month, then then you're profitable. So you guys have to decide that.

Yeah, that's true. I could absolutely see where you're coming from on that. >> Are you calling or are you calling on behalf of him? In other words, he's wondering. I thought so. So, if if

>> you're not the risk taker, [laughter] >> right? So, if I run into him today and we don't know about this call and I say to him, uh, what do you do? And and, uh, he says, I'm in I'm in Cleveland and I've got this job, but then I've got a little home inspection business that I've got going. And I say, well, how do you feel about that? How's what's he going to say to me in response to that?

Oh, he's going to say it's great.

>> Okay. >> And he's going to say he's, like I said, he's more of the dreamer. So, he is like, you know, we just have to wait another month. I just need to be doing this or that or I need to get, you know, in with a realtor, which in theory, absolutely, he does, and I support that.

>> The problem is, like I mentioned, this is his sidekick. So, he can't put as much effort into this as he does his full-time career because we also have two small children. and I work part-time, you know, so we have all these other >> a lot going on. All right, let me ask another question, >> right? >> Do you do you uh manage the budget? Are you the nerd that's more in the numbers?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. [laughter] And by the way, and so then the 300 a month, how how tight

>> is that from a number standpoint, not from an emotional standpoint? We know the answer. The idea that we're spending 300 a month and it's not ROIing is driving you nuts. You're breaking out in hives. I get it. But I'm talking real numbers. How much does the $300 a month

affect you guys?

>> I mean, it it's not like we are trying to rub nickels together here. Um, what I will say, the other factor that's kind of it plays in for me is that his full-time job, um, he recently left the

position that he was in and went somewhere else and we did take a pay cut there. >> So, and that was his choice and I was

hesitant, you know, taking about

>> So, he is making about $10,000 less a

year than he was. >> And what baby step are you guys on?

So, we we are completely paid off aside from our house. >> Okay, that's great. Can I ask you a question? >> We're 32 and 34. >> Okay, so you have time. My question for you, um, if I were your husband, what's your husband's name? You don't have to say. >> It's Eric. >> Okay. >> It's okay. It's [laughter] >> love him.

>> If I was Eric, my question would be, okay, honey, how do you think that we Because the truth is we've we've sunk 15,000 into this. My plan was that over

time we'd recoup that from the business and then we'd be profitable. Yeah.

>> If we stop the business now, honey, how do you think that we're going to recoup the 15,000?

>> Okay. So, I can tell you the answer to that. >> Hit me. >> So, he he's like, "Well, I can start a

mowing company or like a lawn care business." >> So, it's business after business after business cuz he'd have to create a new >> No, no. Let me tell you what I'd tell Eric. Okay. >> Well, [laughter] wait, wait, wait. She didn't answer the question. That was how Eric That's how Eric would answer. I want to know how would you answer. I want to know in your mind, how do you recoup the 15,000 if it's not through the business that was supposed to recoup it?

>> So, I honestly if if that if it were up

to me, I would just say call it a loss,

time to be done. And I would take the money that we were putting towards the business every month and I would be putting it on our house payment. That's just the way we actually just got our PMI taken off, which saves us about $200 a month for that, which I then in turn have been putting on our principal.

>> So, I I would like to put even more on

that [clears throat] if we could because it it's not, you know, like I mentioned, it's not like we're rubbing the nickels together to get this 300 a month, >> but I feel like we would be better suited putting it somewhere else. >> On a scale of 1 to 10, what's your risk tolerance on a scale of 1 to 10? >> I'm raising my hand when it's my turn.

Uh, probably like a twoish. I am not I'm

not >> and I know I need to work on that.

>> Can I Can I go now? Okay. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. I'm trying to set you free. Okay.

>> He wants to do something entrepreneurial. >> Yeah. >> You guys have already invested the 13,000.

>> Yes. He's slowgoing, but he's got a lot going on. This is a good man. There's no marital tension here. I'm talking to two responsible people that are on baby step six. Here's what I think >> your encouragement would be to him.

>> Hey babe, >> how many realtors do we know?

>> Mhm. >> And if we don't know any realtor, who do we know that know any realtor?

>> And this does not take a lot of time. He can carry a full-time job, help you at home with all of his husband and dad duties and still connect to realtors and go, "Hey, I've launched a business. If you're looking for somebody reputable, uh if you get in a pinch, even though you may have a guy, I can be your guy.

And he does this. And this is phone calls on the way to work, phone calls on the way home, phone calls during lunch.

This is a simple solution. There's no need for him to stop this business and go to something else. He hasn't given enough time, nor can I say, and it's not critique. It's not a critique. He's just not given enough energy. Mhm.

>> And so you could say to him, "Hey babe, >> I I have a little bit of right here because we're putting 300 a month in and I'd like this to start to ROI, but I believe in you and so I think this is what we need to do." And you say, "I called the Ramsay Show, blame it on me.

I don't care. It's easy cuz I'm not going to be in the dining room. Blame it on me, too. Blame it on Jade." Okay.

That's why I was chomping at the bit to go. I think you're focused on the wrong thing. And I love your I love that you want it to ROI and it should, but instead of shutting it down, >> you got to give it time. >> You got to give it time. And don't forget what this is for him.

>> This is a bigger deal to him >> than what it is to you. And I think I'd let this thing play, but it's okay for you as one half of this marriage >> to have a voice and to say, I think it should ROI and babe, here's what I think we do. And by the way, you could go reach out to some realtors. And it's okay for you who's a two on the risk meter to say, I do want to put >> some sort of timeline on this >> that if we get to a certain point and we're still nowhere close to ROIing on this that we need to consider what comes next.

That's fair. >> That is 100% fair. And I think that becomes obvious. It's not for us to decide.

>> Uh but I hope that helps. You're a sweet, sweet, sweet lady and a great wife. Uh let this thing play out. Let's start recruiting.

Let's go find more realtors. the more realtors he's in front of that he gets some type of a deal with, the [music] more inspections he's going to get, the more inspections he gets, the more money he makes, the happier you are when you see that budget every month. And that [music] is what it's all about.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dayton is joining us now from Vancouver.

Dayton, how can we help today?

>> Hey there, guys. Um, yeah, calling in.

Just I'll make it as brief as I can. Um, it's a bit of a mindset kind of thing.

Um my wife and I quite a few years ago we had quite a bit of debt about 22,000 and we had worked hard to pay that off and then since then we've had three kids bought a house and then a lot of things have happened and racked up quite a bit more debt. Um my my mind my mindset

question to you is what are some ways that we can kind of protect ourselves from doing this again? We're just starting the baby steps and uh we don't want to get out of debt and then get back into it. um there's a lot of shame around like sticking to our budget, like looking at our finances and stuff. So, I'm just wondering if you guys can kind of help us with the mindset of getting out and staying out.

>> So, my first question would be when you back in the day when you paid off the 22,000, what did it what did it look like to pay that off? Did it was it painful or was it kind of like we're going to do this and once it was done, it was done?

>> Um, initially it was kind of painful like I can't believe I did this. uh credit card company saw me coming from a mile away at 18. And then um I just worked I I was at a job where I could work tons of overtime. So I pretty much worked seven days a week, >> 60 70 hours a week kind of thing. And we just we worked through it and it felt really good when we got out of debt, but it was it was a grind getting through it. >> How long did that take?

>> Um I was able to pay that off in about

11 months, I think it was. So without giving us too long of a story, what happened? Because you said and then things happened and we accumulated debt again. What what what type of things?

>> Well, in that window, um pretty much right after that, we got married and then we had our first child and then we

had our second child and then I did a career change that cost me um quite a

bit of money to go to school down in Texas. And then um we bought a house um

and then we had a third child. And you know when you buy a house to make it what you want it, you you end up spending money thinking that it's going to be okay. >> So what kind of career change was this?

What are you doing now?

>> Uh I'm a firefighter now.

>> And what did that cost you?

>> Uh it cost me about $20,000 to get into that. >> Do you still have a loan on that?

>> Uh no. So well yeah, I guess it's part of my one of my line of credits. um I used to get into that. >> And so I'm hearing one of your line of credits and that's what we did to make the house great for three kids.

>> Yes.

>> Interesting. Yeah. Um I'm just thinking about what you're saying. And first off, you haven't paid off the 103 yet, right?

So you haven't allowed yourself to go through that process. I'm one I'm a person that I think everything is in the process. The first time it took you about 11 months. The truth is the debt wasn't that drastic.

It probably was uncomfortable to pay it off, but you were able to do it. I think now because more is on the line and you're going to feel this one a lot more because it's you, it's your wife, it's your kids, and you're going to have to change your lifestyle, which you're going to feel that. I have a feeling that this one is going to stick a little bit more.

that you need?" >> And I I I think I hear the mindset that got you into it, and I'll try to give you an idea of the mindset that got you out that's going to keep you out, which is I think um Dayton, a lot of times

when we are in our life and we've got our money, we start to develop kind of an I deserve mentality. And it's not, it

doesn't have to be ugly. It's just kind of like I work hard, I deserve to spend, right? I deserve to spend money on the things that I want. I deserve to have the lifestyle I want.

I deserve to have the car and the house I want. After all, I've worked hard. And if we're not careful, that can really, really, really do us in because that's what's happened to you. You listed it.

You're like, "Well, we had kids and then I wanted this career and then I wanted this house." And it's kind of like, what other thing would cause you to go into debt other than the fact that you think you simply deserve to have those things, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that. >> And then the the other side of that I deserve is you're also seeing what other people have and it's like, well, how do they deserve that? I deserve what they have because the people around me have the house. The people around me have the car and so you're you're making that comparison and you're trying to keep up with the things you see. Is that fair enough?

>> Yeah. Yeah. To a degree. I mean, like I never we don't buy any nice cars. We don't have any car payments or anything like that. It's been but yeah, totally lifestyle like wanting to do things with the kids, wanting to make sure they got a nice space, pretty place, you know, that kind of stuff. >> And so I think the mentality going out of it and and don't get me wrong, I think coming out of $103,000 of debt is going to change you in a different way than coming out of $22,000 of debt is.

But I want you to adapt the mentality of

what you truly deserve, which is you truly deserve to have a good night's sleep without debt over your shoulder.

Right? >> Ding ding ding. You deserve to feel good about the money that you earn and that it's enough for your family and not feel like it's not, you know, cuz the opposite is what makes you go out to get debt. The opposite is what I'm contributing is not enough.

>> What I'm bringing and earning is not enough. Therefore, I must and then you go to all these debt sources. But you deserve to feel good about the life you're providing for your family.

>> Yeah. >> So, Dayton, I want to flip that. She's right. But let's just for a second, let's be real gut level honest with each other, the three of us. What are the emotions you're feeling? The negative emotions attached to this debt and those debt payments and that interest and all the things that you now obviously regret, which is why you called today and you said, "How do I keep from doing this again?" What is the most negative emotion? Describe it.

>> Uh, well, I would say it's uh like massive amounts of shame because I was in a good position and I've made good money for a lot of years.

>> Um, and I'm back to making good money now. And it was a lot of shame to like

look at the finances. I knew they were getting out of hand, but I literally like every time I think to open up the banking app or do my budget, my immediate thing is like, "Oh, don't do that, man." Like >> you you're just looking looking your failure in the face, right? So that would have been how it got out of hand for sure. >> How much stress?

How much pressure do you feel? >> Oh, lots. Like especially now looking at my new twomonth-old baby and like thinking like cuz I'm the sole income earnner in our family. uh my thankfully my job allows for that.

>> What if I told you I could snap my fingers and take away the shame and take away the stress? Well, how would you react to that? I know it's fantastical question, but how would you feel? How would you feel? >> Um I I know it would make me feel a lot better, that's for sure, if I'm not carrying that baggage around. Right.

>> Okay. So my two cents on this is the way that you keep from ever doing this again is to in these moments on a daily b on

daily basis remind yourself how awful this feels.

>> Mhm. >> And I don't ever want to feel that again. Like that to me if you talk to somebody who's lost a ton of weight, somebody who beats some type of an addiction and I've been able to interview people like this. I know people my personal life.

if you trace their story of when they recovery, you know, we've heard Dave say this for years on this show and on stage is the I had it moment. You know, you've talked about that. You talked about it earlier in the show today. >> I think you have to bottle this emotion >> not to stay with it and uh I really want you to focus on getting out of that shame because we all carry shame and it's powerful.

But I do think you need to sit with it long enough to go, I don't ever want to feel this again.

back in this again. You can get out of it. You've done it before. You're going to do it this time. But to never get back in, he goes, I don't ever want to feel that again. And I have total control as to whether or not I ever feel this way again. And I think that will be really helpful. So get your chin up.

Walk the baby steps. You can do this.

Throw off that code of shame. You're not a dead beat. You're not a jerk. You're not a loser. You're not a bad man.

>> You made a bad financial decision.

Welcome to the club, pal. You're going to be okay.

[music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[music]

>> All right. All right. Can you know when I when we hear calls like that one where people are dealing with >> guilt and shame it it kind of >> it is important to know the difference right when we when we feel guilt with our money it's generally uh kind of like that second stage of buyer's remorse or remorse where we're like man I wish I hadn't have done that you know and it feels guilty especially if it's affecting our loved ones it's not just us now our kids are affected now our spouse is affected that's really where we feel a large amount of guilt but when it crosses that barrier, Ken, of it's not just this thing I did, but now I am the mistake and I'm wearing that mistake as an identity.

That's when we get into shame.

tough because if you're wearing that identity, I am the mistake. I'm the reason we're not getting ahead. I'm the reason that our finances are bad. Then yeah, going forward, how could you trust yourself?

Because in your mind, you've personified yourself as a failure. It would be very hard to trust your decisions going forward. And so these are the types of things I talk about in my new book that's out now. That's >> right.

>> You know, it's story story. By the way, >> story story story. What no one tells you about money is is just the sort of thing. No one tells you that there is such an emotional struggle going through because with that last caller, he understands the baby steps.

He's done it before. He knows that yeah, you got a list of debt smallest to largest, but what's blocking him is his emotion. And what's blocking him is the shame and the guilt that he's feeling over past mistakes. And he's just the sort of person who needs what no one tells you about money cuz I actually walk people through how to get past that.

That was something that Sam and I dealt with uh during our money battle. Um I know for Sam there was a lot of shame because most of the student loans came from his end of the equation.

can't get ahead. >> Yeah. >> And >> you know that aggression can't stand. You have to learn how to forgive yourself and walk through that because until you forgive yourself, you really cannot go forward. >> And I'm glad you mentioned it. Uh we're so excited. Uh Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is now available for pre-sale. And I love this.

We were talking about this earlier. Uh this is not, you know, just some another money book. This is real stories from her journey. She and her husband Sam paid off overund $500,000 worth of debt.

And she focuses on the emotional side of money. >> That's the idea. What no one tells you about money is what?

>> That it's really really tough emotionally. Even though we give you a tried andrue process of the baby steps, that does not mean that you aren't going to have those rough days where you want to quit, where you feel frustrated like you can't ever get there. It works for everybody else, Dave, but I ain't it ain't working for me, Jay.

>> The plan's only 50% of the equation. I

mean then the the logic we can all look at the baby steps and go yeah that's logical that makes sense feels practical but when you start doing it Ken is a whole different story. You get way laid by a whole slew of things that you might be feeling whether it's frustration whether you're angry at the system or your mom and dad or whether you're like the last caller you're feeling a lot of guilt and shame or maybe you're just caught up in like self-pity. Woe is me.

I got to tell you, if I if that was me and I wanted to be coached up by somebody who'd actually walk the walk and doesn't just talk the talk, it'd be Jay. Could you imagine Jade training you? Could you imagine?

>> She runs marathons. I mean, look at the guns on the book cover. If you're not watching the show today, uh, you got to go to ramiesolutions.com/store.

You can see she's got the guns out, folks. Did you do push-ups before that photo shoot? >> I ran I ran a marathon before that photo shoot. I was in I was in tip-top shape, kid. I got to tell you, still am. My next book cover, I might go sleeveless.

We'll see how that goes. I don't know.

>> I'll let you borrow the tank top, Ken.

>> That probably look good. Probably >> your belly button's going to be showing.

>> That's not a good look for [laughter] middle-aged guys. Not a good look.

Nobody wants to see that. But hey, if you want to get the book, ramiesolutions.com/store.

Pre-order now. Pre-order and you get

$100 plus in free bonus items. And you

want to get it now. It's the best deal in the book. 24. I'm doing a book 999.

You're doing if you pre-order, you get a free slot in my book club. It's three weeks and we're going through it chapter by chapter. So, >> can I can I get a uh friend uh connection on this? >> Uh >> or do I have to do do I have to buy your book or can I get a friend uh spot in the book? >> No. Can you buy the book? Come on.

That's just you being a good friend.

>> That's a good point. You know, >> I just exposed myself as being you know what's going on. I'm starting to act like George. That's a question George would ask cuz he doesn't want to spend any money.

What am I doing? I'm better than that. >> Let me tell you what I'm doing. I'll get it.

I'll get it. >> I I I'm pre-ordering. I'm buying a copy of my own book today because yes, that I have that's part of it.

>> All right. Well, I'm very excited for you. And you're going to you're going to get some free bonus items. I wanted to tell you that. >> That's right. Yeah. Big one.

Ramseyolutions.com/store.

Great book, by the way. There's no money book like this on the planet. I >> It doesn't exist. I looked. >> Go get it. Yes, you did. Brett is up in Charlotte, North Carolina. Brett, how can we help?

>> Hey, I got a um a pretty difficult decision to make here in the next 24 hours or so. So, I was hoping to get some advice on what I should do.

>> All right. >> So, Wednesday, um our team, everybody on our team was told that our team was being eliminated and everybody was being laid off. >> Oh my. effective today, but um they've come back with a two seventh options and I'm having a tough time picking between the two. >> Okay, give us number one.

>> The number one is I remain on the company payroll for 60 days. I get my normal check. I I have health insurance.

You know, my all the deductions are normal. Everything stays the same. I just don't have any work responsibilities. >> Okay. The the catch to that is that if I

become employed anytime during that 60 days um it stops.

>> Okay. >> So I have to let I have to let them know and any further benefits you know or pay will cease. >> So the the other option is they'll give me 45 days um of salary and the

separation is effective immediately.

like when the when the money is deposited for the lump sum that ends the relationship and so there's no health insurance or no further >> got it >> benefits whatsoever. So, one is all at once and the other one is over the course of the 60 days.

>> Correct. >> How does the for the 45 days, how does that work with insurance? Cuz that has to play out over time.

>> Um days. Yeah, I asked about that. The insurance stops um you know, pretty much the day the lump sum is deposited in my account. >> So, no insurance. >> I think that's a no-brainer for me.

>> Okay. >> Which way are you leaning? I'm leaning towards the 60 days because my thought is for if if you wanted to if you let's

pretend you got a a you know you start looking for a job immediately and let's pretend in the next 2 to 3 weeks you land something you could easily say here's my start date that I'd like to start if you felt like your previous job

was paying more or there was something beneficial that you were getting from having that additional 60 days play out or let's say you land a job in the three weeks, you get paid more, the benefits are better. Who cares if this has to turn off? You're in a new job now.

>> Yeah, I that's the question I have. And this may be an unfair question, and if it is, just say, "Ken, I don't know." And I get it. Do you have any sense

>> uh of your ability to land somewhere else fairly quickly?

>> Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I just >> What do you do? It's I'm an IT project manager. >> Okay. Um, given that you got to make a

decision pretty quick. I'm with Jade.

I'm leaning towards option one because that gives you 60 days is normal. Gives you two months where life is normal.

It's already awful enough what you've experienced. >> And I want to point this out so that you

sit with this. We know from psychology studies that losing a job, even being laid off where you didn't do anything wrong, you're part of a massive deal.

Um, it is the same emotional equivalent as losing a loved one.

So you need to to grieve this and know that this is hard. And for that reason, I think I'm going to take the 60 days. I know I got two months more of normaly in the midst of a lot of grief and confusion and fear and all the stress, right? >> And if I get another job and it stops, that's fine because we're talking about a band-aid situation at most.

>> Uh so I'm with Jade on that. I think I'd take stability, but I would act as though you got nothing coming in.

>> That's right. starting tomorrow.

>> Actually, starting today, >> you know what I mean? Like, I tell the whole world, I just got laid off.

There's no shame in that game, by the way. That happens all the time. >> And what's to say, you don't get something better, you know? >> Yeah. So, I'd act as though nothing's coming in starting now.

>> And, uh, I think that's what I would do.

>> But, uh, so sorry, but you're going to be okay. But, I'm going to tell you something. Here's what let me let me and I'm not saying this is you, but I've coached thousands of people uh in my time here at Ramsey on this particular issue. And there is this temptation to

feel so bad for yourself that you just get stuck in this rut of, well, nothing's really working. No, I mean, you act as if you are starving and

you're thrown out on the street.

>> That's the response.

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>> That's right. Today's question comes from Kelly in Colorado. She says, "My debt, my only debt is $16,000 on a car

loan and then I have about $16,000 in

savings. So, I have my emergency fund built up. The only thing is I'm scared to death to pay off this car loan because my husband and I would like to potentially look into buying a home. I'm truly scared that if we were to do something like that, something else would pop up. I don't know if I should build up a little bit more money and then tackle it or do it now. Okay. So,

first, Kelly, let's just I'll give you both sides of it. Let's talk about the baby steps side of it and then we'll talk about the emotional side. So, um, Kelly, the baby steps would tell you that if you have debt, you're in baby step two. All right, you've got, you know, baby step one, obviously you put $1,000 aside.

You got that. You got $16,000. But the baby steps say you're supposed to take everything else aside from the,000 and put it on the car and pay it off.

Um, and then after that, yeah, you would save up three to six months. And then and only then, Kelly, would you then start to save up for your down payment for this house. Now, that's a timeline.

That's this is not going to happen overnight, right? This is going to be something that's going to take an extended period of time. So, that's when we start getting into the emotional side of this. Whereas Ken and I, we could just tell you, Kelly, here's the steps.

Do it. But the truth is, you're going to feel some emotion around that. Number one, you're going to feel the fear of getting rid of your savings because that is a security blanket to you. You feel that at night.

You probably check your bank account balance just to make sure it's still there, right? It feels good to have $16,000 off to the side. Then there's the part of, "Oh my gosh, Jade, you're telling me that I have to do all of those other things before I buy this house.

that." And so there's a little bit of um an emotional pill to swallow there when you realize, wait a second, the thing I thought I was going to maybe be able to do in the next 12 months is actually maybe going to take me closer to 48 months or possibly even longer. So I just want to take a moment and validate that that is absolutely real.

>> And there's part of this where we're

asking you, Kelly, to do something that you've never done before and possibly never even seen done before. And there's a lot of fear in that unknown, Ken.

Yeah. Yeah. >> Speaking of things that have never been seen before. Earlier in the show, I was talking about how in a future book, um,

I might like to let me see your book.

And by the way, if you're watching, >> by the way, if you're in the lobby and you want to see something special, move back to that screen back there. You're about ready to see something really special. This is Jade's uh new book. Of course, we've been talking about it, What No One Tells You About Money. And I was talking to her earlier about, look at her guns. and uh you know she's been

working out, training for a marathon, all the things. And then I said maybe my next book, when has it become socially acceptable for a guy to wear a sleeveless shirt on something, you know, formal? Okay. >> And so James Childs, being the genius that he is, and the crack team back there behind the glass, uh went to Chat GPT and put me in your tank top on your

new book cover. Let's show the audience.

>> Oh, Ken, >> there it is, folks. I mean, look at

those guns. >> You listen, the guns ARE THE GUNS ARE OUT. THAT'S >> FACE FACE is a little warped, but the uh the left arm looks a little stronger.

>> You have you have a strange way of of showing your excitement for my book, Ken. >> The teeth look fantastic.

>> Your teeth looked great. >> Uh so, it's just fascinating uh how

socially acceptable it is for women to

be sleeveless and and you all look lovely. We see it all the time, TV, >> uh, out at out in the town. But a guy a

guy goes sleeveless >> and you either look like a wannabe or a try too hard. Yeah. >> Or white trash.

>> Listen. >> So there you go. >> It's It's, you know, >> I don't know why that is. >> Well, >> so anyway, I'm sending that to Dave to see what he thinks about a future book uh cover. See what he thinks about that.

>> I'm pretty sure the answer is >> hard pass. Hard pass. You sent that picture to Sam, your husband, and his reply was hilarious. What did he say?

>> He was like, "This is deeply disturbing." [laughter] >> So, good stuff. >> You need to keep those weapons concealed. >> They're going to stay concealed, folks. [laughter] They're These babies are dangerous in all 50 states. >> Listen, I don't I don't want to say I think that picture might have done you a few favors, King Coleman. >> I'm happily married. Happily married. Uh Elliot is up in Idaho. Elliot, how can

we help?

Um, so me and my wife just found out we

were pregnant like three weeks ago.

>> Congratulations.

>> Thanks. And I'm trying to figure out how much we need to save up in the nine

months to be able to pay for it all

outright. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, tell me where you are in

the baby steps. Is there debt? Is there not debt? Tell me where you're at. >> Yeah. We have a car payment of 5,100 and

that is about it.

>> Wow. 5,100 for the car payment.

>> Yeah. No, no, you mean the >> total amount? >> Yeah, total. That was the total amount of what we have left. >> Got you. Got you. >> Yeah. The way you said that, uh, America just all did a collective gas.

>> I know. That's right. And that's it? Just the car? >> Yeah, just the car. >> Okay. What do you guys earn?

>> Um, combined a little less than 60,000.

>> Okay, good. So yeah, during this time, we kind of call this uh uh stork mode, which is basically you're pausing any real financial uh traction that you're

making to save up. Every dime that you have, you're saving that up so that when this baby comes just in case if you need the money, it's there. Now, um obviously

I hope that everything goes off without a hitch. But it is nice to have that money there because many times you do hit the deductible and it's nice to at least at the very least have that insurance deductible there so that you know you're not having to come out of pocket last minute for that. Do you know what yours is?

>> Um I believe deductible is 2500.

>> Okay. And is that the same as your out-of- pocket max for the year?

>> Um out of pocket is 6,500.

>> 6500. So, if I were you, that'd probably

be somewhere in between those two numbers would be my goal over the next 9 months to save up. Um, and then the good news is it, let's say you save up the whole 6,500. The good news is once the baby's born, everything's good. Mom's home, baby's home. Uh, you can take that whole amount, throw it towards the car, pay it off just like that, and you got a little something something to start your three to six months on it off on the right track.

>> Okay. >> Make sense? >> Yeah.

Good. Good. Let that sink in.

>> All right. There you go. All right. Let's talk about the emotions. Okay.

>> Nice segue, Ken. Just >> slap it right in there. >> Let's go. Let's talk about the emotions of >> bringing a child into the world.

>> Oh, Lord. >> You're in the baby steps, right? And this was a very specific question, but just in general, >> it's been a while, right? But I'm thinking back. I know you've done it.

You know, there's something happens. And how do we manage that natural fear of, oh my gosh, I now have to take care of somebody more than just me and my wife?

Because I remember Stacey and I, it's like I never felt like, okay, I've got to take care of Stacey because she was working and I was working. Now, I know, you know, obviously we're married, but it's like we were both working, double income, >> no kids, and the moment when a child comes in, I know as a dude, >> I feel like the provider muscle starts to flare a little bit more. Mhm.

>> Uh so a what you think the common emotion is and b how do we make sure we don't overreact and stay calm?

>> I think obviously depending on the person it's going to be different. I know for me I can speak from my personal opinion uh and just personal experience.

For me it was kind of twofold. The idea of bringing a child into the world and then we had this half a million dollars of debt. For me, it was a wake-up call

uh of I am in a I am in a current state

of struggle and financial trauma. I was

like, I can't bring a child into this. I have to get my act together, Sam. We have to get our act together. We've got to create stability. So, for us, it was like a lighting a fire under our butt.

And then there's also kind of the historical framework. So, you think

about what was money like when you were a child? How did you feel? Did you feel like it was a scarcity mentality? Did you feel like it was abundant? Did you feel And all of that plays into the moment when you find out we're pregnant.

>> Yeah. >> And if you're not careful, it can freeze you dead in your tracks. Or you can take that and it can be just the catalyst that you need to get you moving in in the right direction, possibly for the first time ever. And so that's exactly the type of thing I'm talking about and [music] what no one tells you about money. How to convert those emotions into fuel to actually help you win.

>> [music]

[music]

>> This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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[music]

Uh Jake, you know this. I got to tell everybody else. The all new Every Dollar is here. Hey, >> and uh it's more than just a world-class budgeting app. Okay. So, when we say that, >> yeah, >> I mean, we there's a bunch of advanced features, all the things. But I I think what's really cool is is the real time help. >> That's right. That's right. >> Talk about that. You're in the weeds.

>> Oo, real time. I think the best thing is Yeah. the coaching, the coaching aspect.

Not only does it create a plan that's customized for you, but we also have coaching. There's free one-on-one coaching that you can get involved in.

Uh there's group coaching that you can get involved in. We do webinars once a month so you can get help from real people. Yes, there's the digital component, but there's also the human component. And I think that's the best of both worlds, baby. >> Get every dollar for free today in the App Store or Google Play. And it really is fantastic. I mean, the way I like to describe it is if you've ever been familiar or been a part of or led Financial Peace University, imagine that digital on steroids to the nines.

>> It's like having a person one of the personalities in your pocket like having Ken or I Ken in your right side pocket, Jade in your left side pocket. Scary.

>> I I was getting ready to say I thought everything was good until that. I [laughter] think now everybody ran for the hills when you told them I might be in their pocket. We'll let that one go.

Trevor's up in Sou Falls, South Dakota.

I've been there before. You ever been to Sou Falls? >> I have not. >> It's gorgeous. Falls run right through the town. Trevor is there. Trevor, how can we help?

>> Hi guys. I'm uh my father-in-law wants

to gift me his portion of a family business and I don't know that I want to be partners with the rest of his family without him involved. Um I don't want to be unappreciative, but I'm >> sure. So don't do it.

Do you already work in the family business? >> So I I manage it.

>> Okay. And how long have you been part of it? >> Uh this is my fourth year.

>> Oh boy. >> And what's his stake? What what percentage is he offering you?

>> He has 25% of it.

>> Who are who are the other family members once he's out?

>> His parents and his brother.

>> And you work with these folks for four years.

>> Yeah. you've been behind the curtain and

you don't want it.

>> Um, I mean, ideally at some point I'd own the whole thing, but I don't know that I want to be involved as partners,

>> right? And and and you know your reasons. >> Yeah. >> And because it's family, I'm not going to ask you to list them because you're calling in at a show. But I I guess my point is that's everything I need to know because you it'd be one thing if

>> if you called and you didn't work in the business and maybe you were just adjacent and you just knew very little.

I think I'd be the one that would go, you know what I would do? I would at least go kick the tires, ask a lot of questions. But the fact that you've been running the business for four years tells me you have enough evidence and I

don't even need to know your reasons why. And I think in this case, you got to honor your gut. Does that >> It does. >> You got any head checks on that? >> It does. I I do have more questions just based on two things you said. Number one is you said, "I wouldn't want to be in there in it without him." So, I wondered, what is it about your father-in-law that you feel like that brings kind of like stability to the chaos?

>> Um, well, I know he's got my best interest in mind. Um, >> and um, he's able to to kind of push things

like if we need to make a change of something, he's kind of able to kind of get it pushed past his family, I guess.

>> So, he's kind of an ally. He's an ally and he kind of knows how to navigate the BS. >> What position is he in right now

or has he been in?

He's recently retired, so he's gotten more involved. Um, but he just kind of

helps with the day-to-day stuff as far as just >> Okay. But I guess my point is, so your your position is what? What's your title? >> So, I'm the I'm the manager. Um,

so I'm kind of in charge of everything, I guess. >> Okay. Who's above you? Who do you report to?

Um, basically I report to my father-in-law. Yeah, >> but father-in-law is out. Once >> he's gone, who do you report? >> Who does he who does he report to? If he helps get things pushed through, it implies that there's somebody above him.

Who is that?

>> Well, his parents own 50% of it. So, I guess they would be the >> Okay, that's 50. He's offering you 25.

Where's the other 25? >> The brother. >> His brother. >> Uh, is he involved in the business?

Yeah, he used to be the manager before I got involved. >> So, two other questions then. First question is the parents, they've got to be aging, right? Yeah.

>> So, what happens to their cut when they leave and when are they leaving?

>> It's supposed to be split between >> my father-in-law and his brother.

>> So, you would get another 25%. So, essentially at the end of the day, it'd be you owning 50% and your brother and the brother owning 50%. Is that right?

Yeah. >> Okay. Then my next question is, what's the business worth?

>> Um, it's probably over a million dollars.

>> Huh. I was hoping for more. Okay.

>> Are you Do you have a Um Well, I Okay, I

have two quick questions. one is it part

of your plan to if I say no now and I

just keep doing a good job running the business that once um grandparents are

gone and uncle and father-in-law are in

charge and once they age out that you just inherit it all at that point you go sure I want it then but only then is that where your head is at or do you have another play outside of this [snorts] >> um

Yeah. I mean that's >> Yeah. What? >> His parents if his parents weren't involved and

>> your the uncle >> Uhhuh. >> and the uncle Yeah. I guess that would be >> right. But that's a long time from now at at best.

>> Um I mean his parents are in their 80s.

>> No, I know. But we got to go through another layer. But >> did you mention this to your father-in-law that you you would do it if he were involved? But have you told him this is my question.

>> I've I've kind of it's been I mean we've been talking about this a little bit so I've kind of brought it up that I don't really want to be involved without him.

>> And is there pressure from him for you to stay involved or does he go totally get it young man? I appreciate that.

>> Um yeah a little bit.

>> I I gave you two. I need you to tell me >> business continue but he doesn't he's he

doesn't want to have to I think he's getting kind of sick of dealing with his family and >> yeah but I mean is he pressuring you to stay in it or is he saying if you don't want it that's totally fine. That's what I'm asking. A or B?

>> He's not really pressuring me but I I mean he knows that I want to be in this

long term I guess. >> So you do want to stay in the business long term? >> I do. Yeah.

I just >> Is there a world where longer since >> is there. Okay, so parents, they're getting older. You got to I got to believe they're going to age out of this in the next 5 to 10 years. Is there a world you said they're 80 in their 80s now?

>> Yeah, >> maybe even sooner. I mean, I only you know that, but is there a world where once the parents come out and you're 50/50 with the brother-in-law, is there a world where you could then buy the brother-in-law out financially?

I'm not really a financial position to do that. No. >> Got it. >> And are you okay working with the uncle?

>> No. >> I prefer not [laughter] to. No. >> There you go. >> Okay. So, I got to tell you something. I don't think this is worth the wait for you because it feels like the uncle's going to be in charge for a good while.

Yes. >> Yeah. >> Okay then. How old are you?

>> Uh 30. >> Okay. You know what? I think now this is I'm not telling you to do this, but this is under the this is what Ken would do.

I'm not saying this is what you should do, okay? What I would do is I would tell everybody. >> You've already told father-in-law, I'd tell uncle-in-law, I'd tell grandma, granddaddy, whatever you call them, >> I love you guys.

Um, I'm going to go out. I'm going to go a different path. >> What about >> I'm out. And here's why.

Once you go do your own thing, and the reason I'm telling you to go do your own thing, whatever that is, you go work for somebody else, you go whatever, you just leave the business because you don't want to work with these people, you've already determined that. And you certainly don't want to wait as long as it's going to take for you to get the chance to run it. So, go do your own thing. And here's what's going to happen.

At some point, when uncle's ready, >> he's got to figure out what he's going to do. And you're probably the best candidate anyway. And so, you're a young man. You're 30, I believe you said.

I would go another direction and let it come back to me. I know Jade's got something here. >> I I'm with that. I I agree with Ken.

I would not stick in it. Um I have nothing more to add to this. >> Yeah, I mean, go west, young man.

So, that means there's a far better one somewhere else, and I'd take it.

[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside Colleen is up in Calgary, Alberta. And

let's go to Colleen. Colleen, how are you doing today?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> You bet. What's up? >> Um, so my question is, I've been listening for a couple months and there's just it must be a basic question, but I can't wrap my head around it. So, my husband and I, we use our credit cards basically for everything. Um, but we do pay it off every month. Since we've never carried a balance, I'm really interested in switching to cash only. And my question

is, how do you do that so that you'd actually have money left over that you could last the rest of the month to then switch to cash?

>> Yeah. So, you're kind of um you're a month behind essentially because >> just the sole way that they work, you're always like kind of a month paying a month late. >> Yeah. So, the best way to do this is to

to do the budget first. Like, let's do a budget first and let's get a in our mind what we honestly need for a month. Not going over, not depending on a, you know, a line of credit. Just what does it take for our household to run realistically? Have you done that yet?

>> Uh, no, we haven't. I've been on my husband to get started with that, though. >> Yeah. So, okay. Before we get off the call, we'll make sure that Christian gives you uh the allnew every dollar so that you guys tonight can make that first budget because then you're going to have a starting place of knowing, okay, we need $5,000 a month or we need $6,000, whatever that is. And then from there, I want to ask, do you happen to have any money saved?

>> Yeah, we do. Like we could pay it off with our sav like we have a savings, we could pay it off. >> So, what's on the credit card now?

>> Wondering in general.

Yeah, we could do that for sure.

>> So, what's Tell me real numbers. What's on the credit card now? And how much do you have saved?

>> Oh, well, we have probably at least like

30,000 in a savings account that we could just pay it off.

>> And how much is on the card?

>> Oh, probably our cards right now are only maybe like five grand.

>> Okay, great. >> Like we could we could pay it. I was just not maybe wanting to take it from there and pay it off and instead just make that switch. >> Well, I'm going to I'm going to repeat repeat back what you wanted to do, which is you told me that you wanted to stop

using the credit cards for monthly payments and just use your money and then you agreed with me that you're essentially a month behind because that's the way credit cards work. So, the only way to get in front of it is to

pay off the existing debt. Well, the first step I told you is to make a budget. So you know how much money you even need for the next monthtomonth budget. Then the second step is now we have to get even. We have to get to zero because we have to pay off the debt.

>> So that's the next thing. You're going to reach over from that 30,000.

>> Pay off the debt and then you're going to be at ground zero. And then now you have the budget going into the month of November and you say, "Okay, here's our budget. Now we just use our money that

we're going to get paid." That's how this works. Now, we can get into the gears of how to set a budget if if you want to do that, but that's the first three steps to accomplish what you said you wanted to do.

>> Mhm. Yeah. No, I have no doubt that we could live off of like our income and what we make. So, I guess it is just a matter of getting it paid off so that we're at kind of >> starting point with no like no debt with

credit card and then just go from there with the budget. >> Now, if you have I don't know what your income is. what's your income? Cuz if you can cash flow both, I'm fine with that. If you're like, "Hey, Jade, I actually make enough this month that I could pay off the credit card and have enough to float November's budget," that'd be pretty awesome, too. What do you make?

>> Uh, so yearly combined with my husband, we're probably around 190.

>> Okay. What does that break down every month? What is What do you actually bring home?

>> Uh,

this is why we need the budget.

[laughter] >> Yeah. I'm trying to think. Probably

like 10 to 12,000.

>> Okay. So, there could >> there could be a world where you can cash flow most of this and and dip into savings very little. I'm just not sure because I haven't seen your budget. There could be things that are >> stopping you from it.

>> Yeah, for sure. That makes sense. And I think >> the answer is super easy, right? I mean, she listen, Jade gave you the tactical stuff, but again, I'm going to tell you something. You're going to have to realize that you're making a major change from being responsible. I think you're responsible. You're obviously responsible. >> Okay. >> But there's a difference, Jade, between being responsible and being strategic.

>> That's right. >> And strategy is what we teach. And and and so the idea here is that when you know what's in your budget and you know where the money's going and you're telling the money what to do and it's doing something for you now you're so much further ahead. So it's just a simple do exactly what she said but then to get to the next level of we're not just using credit cards is some loosey goosey backup and we get these benefits.

We're actually being strategic to win with our money. That's a big difference.

>> I agree. So are you going to do it?

>> Yeah. Yeah, just Oh, yeah. I'm 100% on

board. And I do think it'll make us a lot more conscious of what we're spending our money on instead of just like swipe the card and >> pay for whatever. >> That's right. And let me Yeah, I was going to say, let me give you just a little nuts and bolts thing on the budget. Um I don't know when you get paid, but most people get paid twice a month. >> Usually like on the the the 15th and the 30th, right? It's kind of >> Yeah, that's his and I'm bi-weekly.

>> Okay. So, just a little nuts and bolts thing. Generally, when you're getting on a budget for the first time, the check from the 30th is going to go towards the

next month. So, for instance, if you got paid yesterday, that tech tech that

check technically should go towards November. So, your paychecks that you're

budgeting for for the current month are from the 30th of the previous month. So the 30th of October will go for your October budget or for your November budget >> and your November 15th paycheck will be on your November budget. Does that make sense?

>> Yep. Yeah, it does. So instead, we're just kind of paying for things before instead of after. >> Yes. That way you always have the money Uhhuh. to pay for what you need all 30 days of the month. Because if you let that October 30th check go for October,

well, the month's already over. Everything's going to be late. So that's just a little tip. A lot of people get hung up on that.

>> Okay, awesome. No, that sounds really good. >> All right, thank you for the call, Colleen. Yeah, there there's a lot of people. We get this question a lot and it's always fun from for people if I'll meet somebody and then they find out I work at Ramsay Solutions and they'll be like, "Okay, hey, so okay, by the way,

it always drops down." >> Yeah. >> Do you know what I'm talking about? >> Yeah. It's not a secret. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, let me let me just let me let me just ask like what's what's the problem with just, you know, we pay everything [laughter] and we pay it off, you know, and and it's it's really fun how that happens. But again, our it's it's it's less about I think sometimes we get painted with this brush here at Ramsey Solutions that we're just anti- everything >> and we're not, >> right? >> You know what I mean? It's it's we're for your money winning.

>> Yes. And we want you to feel good about it. We want you to feel like you're in the one in control. We don't want you to do the things that we teach because Jaden Kin said so. >> Yeah. >> We want you to do it because it makes sense to you. You like the idea of peace. You like the idea of freedom and being in control of your money and in your with your emotions as well.

>> Yeah. It's it's it is always funny to me when somebody goes, "Okay, I think I get it." And by the way, this call is a great example, by the way, of realizing, "Oh, this isn't just anti-credit.

There's a bigger strategy at play." And she's beginning to see it. And the light bulb goes off there as she says, "Yes, >> I can see how this is going to help us when we know where our money is and we're going to be even more strategic, more responsible." Yes, >> cash does that. >> And I liked her call because I actually talk about that in the book, What No One Tells You About Money.

>> And it's juicy. It's juicy. Let me tell you, I'm telling you the raw and the real. I don't hold back. >> All right. [music]

All right, let's talk insurance real quick. Everybody needs it. Uh, but you may not need as much as you think or you may have too much. Uh, and you need to find somebody who's a pro. Not somebody that's looking to make a buck off of you, but people who know their stuff and want to take care of you. And you can do that with a Ramsay trusted insurance pro. You're not going to have to deal with all the sleazy, slimy sales crap.

uh and and know that we vetted these folks to make sure that they're market experts who are going to take care of you. Ramseyolutions.com/coverage is where you go. Ramseyolutions.com.

Let's go to Matt in Charleston, South Carolina. Matt, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how are y'all doing today? >> We're doing great. What's going on?

>> So, uh recently came into uh some lottery money. Um >> Whoa. Whoa. Let's not just let's not roll right by that. How much did we win, sir? >> Uh, so we won right at 200 after taxes.

Um, it was 350 and they took >> 200 is what you take home.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Wow. Was that state lottery?

>> Yeah, it was a state um kind of a second chance thing they do.

>> Wow. >> That's something. Okay. >> You know what? I've never had anybody on the show. Can I ask one quick followup?

I've never taken a lottery call on this show. Uh, was this a random I'm in the

grocery store or I'm at the gas station and I see the ticker and I go I'm going to shoot my shot or is this Are you like a guy who played it all the time?

>> Well, I was a guy that played it all the time when this when this kind of happened. Um, I since stopped playing, but I said it was a [laughter] second chance. So, you scan a ticket and they

put your name in a hat for a second chance and they luckily drew my name.

>> Wow, that's so funny.

>> Okay. All right. to the reason you called. What What's your question?

>> All right. So, um prior to this, I was very uh not financially savvy. Like I was um credit card debt, student debt, um personal loans. >> Essentially, [clears throat] I was working week to week and going down to zero or sometimes negative in my account. >> Um so, with this, my plan is to go ahead pay off all of my debt, which is about $30,000.

um and potentially put a down payment on a house. Um my wife's car just broke

down, so potentially get her a new car.

But what I don't want to do is mess it up and get back to where I was a month ago, week to week, um getting down to [clears throat] zero in my account.

>> Well, let's talk about that first. Let's talk about that because you got Jade here to walk you through this. describe for her what you think was the cause of

you being uh weak to weak never having

enough there because that wasn't that long ago. >> So presumably we haven't solved what was going on. So describe what you think is the source of that.

>> Um I think

I think I got credit cards in the mail and I was like okay I can use those and I just started overspending and not paying attention to my spending.

>> Okay. Um, >> and then, you know, I had other debts that I just kind of just kept ping on. I just was not being responsible. >> Understood. What What's your income?

>> Uh, I make about 105 a year.

>> Okay. >> So, it's not like you're scrapping.

>> And is it just you or is there a wife, kids, anything?

>> Um, I just married my wife um two weeks ago and we have three kids.

>> Three kids. Okay. And does she work outside the house?

>> Yeah, she does work. >> What's she make?

um roughly 40

have been separate but >> okay but they're coming together um I think the key here is you've got to look

at what you're bringing home every single month you've got to look at what

you have to spend what's your margin and you've got to just give every dollar an assignment and then that's the practical part but then the emotional part of actually sticking to it Ken is what's going to be your struggle because if you set out and say Hey, we're only spending

$150 on restaurants.

And you write that on paper. Now, it's your chance to say, am I going to be the person that keeps the promises to myself or I'm going to am I going to be a person that flakes out every single time? Am I going to be a person that I can depend on that I I can depend on me to say what I do, I what I say I'm going to do, I'm actually going to do. Or are you going to let your emotions lead you and go, "Well, I work hard.

>> Right. >> That's where the real battle starts. So,

I love that he asked the question because you know as much as Ken and I do know know that the $200,000 that is a a wonderful thing. You had some good luck, but that is not the solve of the problem. The solve of the problem is Matt deciding that he's going to be a guy who can look in the mirror and trust himself to do what he says he's going to do >> and have a process for doing it.

>> Yeah. In other words, if you say, "Hey, I want to get in shape, put on muscle,

cut up, or I want to put on 15 pounds of muscle, or I want to lose 50 pounds of weight." >> You've got to have a process. You can't just say, "I want it to happen and expect it to happen." Right? >> You got to have a process that is attached to a willingness to change.

>> And so, I'm going to start with the budget for you. You didn't know what was going on with any of your money. So, let's take care of the man. Let's get him uh let's get him in every dollar. >> Let's get him in every dollar. And uh I think you need to give him give him a what does he do tonight with every dollar to to change this around.

>> Yep. Tonight you sit down with your wife and you put all the numbers and you're going to put in what you guys earn. You're going to pull up the HR website.

You're going to look at your check stubs after taxes. That's the number that you're going to put into the budget.

Then you're going to go back and you're going to look at all your bank statements and you're going to put accurate numbers for, okay, we already know, yes, this is our cell phone payment, utilities, we know our mortgage or our rent payment, but what do we really spend on groceries? What do we really spend going out to eat? What do we really spend on gas? And you're going to plug those numbers in so you have an accurate picture of, okay, this is what it takes to run my lifestyle.

And then you're going to say, okay, honey, we've got this money that's enough to break us free. It's going to it's going to give us a get out of jail free card on this debt on the car and it's even going to help us get a down payment. But today we look ourselves in the eye and say but this is our real income 150,000 and this is what we get to live on and we have to be okay with that. We don't have to keep up with anybody else.

you guys, you have to kind of um,

you know, decide that you're both going to do that and that you're both going to hold each other accountable because trust and believe there's going to be temptations. Obviously, there's always another trip to take. There's always a better car to buy, right? There's always a nicer restaurant to eat at, but you have to be okay with what your lifestyle is.

So, don't squander this. And I I I don't think you will if you internalize what we're saying. >> Yep. Hang on the line.

We're going to get you started in every dollar. stay tuned into the show. Create some accountability to where you go, okay, I'm now living this.

>> And let's let's talk about that for a minute, Ken. Um, >> you talked about getting cut, working out, trying to get muscles, whatever the goal is, right? >> I'm trying to keep up with your book cover. Let's be honest.

[laughter] >> You were likening it to getting on a plan with your money. Yeah. And a lot of people forget that they've got to set themselves up for success, >> right? >> Because if you're trying to get ripped, do you want to know what you don't keep on the counter?

>> Chips. >> Oreos. >> Oreos. >> Halloween candy.

>> Oh, boy. >> I listen. I said that and there is a bowl of Halloween candy on my counter right now [laughter] at home.

>> Let me tell you something. >> I take a tax on whatever Mrs. Coleman has bought for the little ones that are coming by tonight. Mr. Coleman takes a tax. >> Chef's snack. That's a chef's neck.

>> I go through it all. I go, I'll have one of these. Thank you very much. But you know, uh, if I cheat >> tonight on some candy as I will.

>> Guess what? >> You got to pay for it later. >> I'll pay for it tomorrow.

>> Don't you pay for it. >> So, you a got to have a process. You know what you do? So, the first thing you do is I'm I'm playing along with you.

>> I'm going to go, "All right, uh, I'm going to eat better. >> So, I got to remove the junk, but I also got to put good stuff in my body." >> You got to put it there. >> And you got to have protein. You want to add muscle, you got to have x amount of grams of protein.

>> Yes, >> it is. Watch this. Instead of listening to everybody else who's broke, maybe I

buy Jade Warshaw's book, >> maybe I listen to the Ramsay show two or three times a week or every day. I'm going to put good money practices, good

money philosophy in as well. That's like putting protein in my body in order that the workout I get the maximum out of it.

>> I'm with you, Ken. I'm with you, Ken.

And make it easy. If I put healthy food in the refrigerator, I put it at eye level so I can just grab it. It's the first thing I see. And it's the same thing with this.

You need to be setting reminders in your phone to check your every dollar budget. You need to be doing the things that are right there at eye level. Put the podcast. Let that be the first podcast that pops up.

>> Set yourself up to succeed with money so that when the time comes, it's an easy choice. It's right there in front of you. >> You keep preaching like that. I might do an altar call, have a baptismal service right in the studio. By the way, I have

gone out to eat with this one and her husband and she orders the cleanest stuff. Ain't no fun, folks.

>> I try

[music]

[music]

All right, let's go to Megan in Spokane, Washington. Megan, how can we help today? >> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> You bet. What's up? Um, I was I'm calling because I'm a single mom and I'm in baby step 3B and so I'm currently only saving up to my match in my retirement, but I live in

a really expensive area. Um, and you

know, like don't want to move really because the like it helps to have a lot

of community when you're trying to raise a kid on your own. So, like >> I'm trying to figure out um if I were

like >> if I were to really realistically try to buy a house under like the Ramsy guidelines, I would probably need like a $200,000 down payment.

>> Uhhuh. Yes. >> Um with my current income and that would take me like I'm saving very aggressively. I have a really good living situation right now, but it would take me still probably over five years to do that. Mhm. >> So, I'm kind of wondering like it seems too long to pause my retirement. Um, but then I'm going to be even saving longer >> if I wait if I don't pause retirement.

So, yeah. Just kind of wondering what your guys' thoughts are about that. Like if it would be smarter to pause my retirement and maybe just save what I can and give up >> having a house or like it feels like it would provide a lot of security to have a house. >> Um, you are correct. It does provide security to have a house. You do. I mean, that's the largest line item on your budget and to have that stabilized is very very it's a very very important part of security and wealth building.

So, you're exactly right. Um, you're also right on how uh tough it is to save

up a down payment because gone are the days where you can just say, "Oh, put 20% down and you know, now you're right at 25% of your takehome." That math is is different now. So, uh, in order to make the payment 25% of your take-home,

in many cases, you're putting down well above 20%. In some cases, you're putting like 50 and 60% down in order to make that happen. That's just the reality.

Totally. >> So, for for you, probably what I would do is I would go when you're in baby step 3B, you do have the opportunity.

you have the the choice to say, I'm either going to kind of split and I'm going to do some investing and some saving for the down payment, or you can say, I'm just going to go ham on the down payment um and get that done.

>> If I [clears throat] were in your shoes, I'd start there. I'd start on not investing. I'd start on everything going to the down payment. And then probably at the three-year mark is when I would say, "Okay, I have to start putting something into retirement." And I realize that's going to make me go slower, but hopefully by then there's some change that's happened. your income has gone up, maybe your um

>> uh life has changed in a way to where there's more income coming in.

>> Um but I want to if if you were here

right now, I'd be looking you dead in your eye and validating the fact that it is tough. It's it's a longer timeline than what people are used to >> and it is a lot more money that must be put down on the front end than what people are used to. But I would also tell you, um, if it makes you feel any better, for my husband and I, we had a 10y year. We had to wait 10 years to do our house.

>> Mostly for Wow. >> Yeah. For us, cuz we started out broke and we had to clean up debt. Uh, but time is time, right?

And >> the the biggest thing I can leave you with is when the day comes and you have the money and you put it down and you move in that house, it's all going to have been worth it. M >> Mhm. >> I'd like to ask >> Yeah.

Like that feels good to be like >> Yeah. And and I love I love that Jade

acknowledged how tough this is in the current situation. U and but I'm going to push a little bit because I think sometimes there's >> there's more than one way. And certainly waiting longer is fine. It stinks to

tell people that, but just because it [clears throat] takes longer doesn't mean that it's still not the best decision. and you've already got a good good living situation.

>> How much of a house are we talking about? How much how much are we looking how big is this house and what price?

>> I mean, I live in a tiny house right now, so I am definitely not looking for a big house. Like I'm living in a tiny house that I built >> and so I'm >> Oh, an actual tiny house.

>> Yeah. Like I built a tiny house when I was um like a long like five years ago.

So I'm living in that house now. And I would be very happy with just even putting my tiny house on a piece of property, >> but I'm just having a hard time >> finding a property that I could even put it there. >> Well, tell us though, but you've got >> not a huge house, >> right? But I just want to have some fun with the numbers for a minute. All right. So, what based on what you've told us, you've got a number in mind, correct? A price point.

>> Yeah. Well, the I'm thinking like the average houses in our area are between like >> like around $400,000. That's for like a pretty ch like a small, you know, house.

>> Yeah. Like how Okay. So, so there's nothing in the 300,000 or 250,000 range.

>> Not that I have seen recently, but that,

you know, it could fluctuate a little bit. Like I I think it could be possible like 350 could come up eventually. Um,

but that that's not like a very common.

>> How close do you have to be to where you work? What's that situation?

Well, uh, my daughter is in a school, so

it's more I work remotely, um, which is wonderful. So, um, I but my daughter goes to school every day, so I'm driving her I'm driving twice a day >> um to get her >> Where is your tiny house? Are you renting the land or the space?

>> I'm I um I'm renting the land basically.

Yeah. >> So, um, it's in Cocaala. I don't know if you >> No, I don't know where it is. I guess what I'm saying is is that if all I'm doing is encouraging you.

I'm not in any way, you know, tis tisk, you should be doing something different than you're doing, but I certainly will be looking at every opportunity to go, okay, if I could find something that's a little bit cheaper, that shortens my timeline, right? Because it's less I have to save and I'm now going to incrementally work my way up. And you're actually a prime candidate [clears throat] for that given the fact that you're in a tiny home. And I also think if I were you and you love the tiny home and you go, "Hey, if I could find land, I'd get really aggressive and looking for something like that because it might be a lot cheaper than a house." >> Yeah.

And I could always build a house on it later >> down the line. That's right.

>> Oh, so just there's also an opportunity to build to buy a house um that's cheaper because it's with a like group

that has a deed restriction. Um, and I'm

a little bit hesitant to do a deed restriction. It's like you basically don't own the land. You own the house and then you have to sell it like at a you can't sell it at market value. You have to sell it at like

don't do that. >> No. No. That never want to buy something that comes with all these restrictions.

Like I didn't buy anything. I signed up for some deal that has all these problems with >> and you're not desperate. >> That's right. >> That's the thing you got to remember.

You're not desperate, but you are a person who had a timeline and and you have a timeline that you want to make.

>> And the hardest part of all of this is readjusting expectations.

>> You know, that's that's the emotional aspect of this. You know the numbers. I don't think we have to go over that. You understand the benefit of the numbers,

but the hardest part is the part of you that's got to go, man, this is I'm I'm disappointed. This is not going to happen as quickly as I wanted it to.

>> Yeah. I am. You're right. I am disappointed and I'm a little scared if I'm being honest. >> Well, yeah. The the fear says, "What if I wait too long? What if I'm priced out of the market? What if I, you know, a lot can happen in the next 5 to six years?" So, there's a fear of the unknown that's there. Um, >> and you built your tiny home.

>> Yeah. >> Yourself.

>> Yes. Like with help obviously, but I was a Yeah, >> that's amazing. So, I'm I'm not trying to turn you into Joanna Gains, but I would also if you can find something that's not a death trap that doesn't end up costing you more money, but like with a little bit of love and tenderness, you know, and it's structurally sound. In other words, it's got good bones, >> you know, that might be a steal for you, too.

Uh especially being a single mom with one kid, you're used to living, you know, in some little thing that I'm sure looks amazing, by the way. Um, but [laughter] I just I guess my thing is is that when I'm in a situation like you're in and I know that there's a good long-term play and it's going to require patience, then I know, okay, that will win. The tortoise beats the hair every time. All right.

everything? Have I turned over every stone? You know what I mean? And I guess that's my only encouragement. Doesn't hurt. You're not going to do anything stupid. Uh, you've been very smart to this point. So, I'm not saying turn over every crazy stone. Like, I'm glad you brought up the one situation because that could be tempting.

>> No, don't do that where they're going to force you to sell and you don't own the dirt underneath your house. Like, that's not a stone we want to turn over. Or if we turn it over, we see a bug, we go, "Ooh." And we turn the stone back over, we run. >> So, that's one that you do there. But I would look at everything that you possibly can to see, can I progressively step into uh something because I'm making good financial decisions along the way. >> Yes.

[music]

Our

[music]

[music]

scripture of the day is Psalm 37:es 3-4.

Trust in the Lord and do good. Dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture. Take delight in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart. Our quote from Maya Angelo today. I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catcher's mid on both hands.

>> Oo, >> you need to be able to throw something back. >> I love that. I love that.

>> So fun. You know, we've had uh it's interesting. Uh we were just talking with James, our fearless producer. Been a lot of calls today where we've seen the emotional side of money.

>> Yes. talked about and you and I were talking about this uh earlier today.

There's so much fear.

>> Yes. >> That is involved in money decisions and you write about the emotional side of money in your new book. >> Yeah. >> Uh what no one tells you about money and that is the emotional side. How very

difficult it is to win with money and also process all of the range of emotions that come with money and its rhythm in life. >> That's right. We saw it in a couple of calls today. We saw the young lady who had she wanted to stop using credit cards and she had the money in savings to pay off the credit cards and start fresh, but there was fear there.

We saw it with the previous caller who was like, I'm afraid I'm never going to be able to buy a house if I say keep saving at this rate with the market the way it is. And we've seen it throughout we woven throughout other calls as well. And I want to take a moment I want to read this section out of the book specifically about fear.

a negative expectation of the future

based on a rational or irrational belief. >> So if you think about that, some of our fears are totally they're like totally valid. It's like this is rational. I could see where that's coming from. Some of them are irrational. But I go on to say I added the element about the future because if you think about it, fear is rarely about what's happening in the moment. It's re it's it's really about our perception of uh it's really about

our perceived outcome or what we think is going to happen in the future. If I do this then some negative thing will happen later.

>> That's what we think. And and it's never about what's happening in the moment. We're projecting ahead and going, "Oh gosh, if I do this, that thing's going to happen out there and that thing's" and we really don't know.

>> And so in the book I walk through understanding that and taking a moment and just writing out what is it that you're afraid of? What is it? Write it down. Cuz when you can look at it staring back at you at the page, it has a whole different life.

>> Right. It's a great point. >> And then you can ask yourself, is this actually true? Is it rational or is it irrational? >> And I have found that the irrational one ones, Ken, they tend to be kind of vague. >> It's kind of like, oh, I'm afraid I'm going to mess everything up if I do that. Well, that's kind of vague. What do you mean by that? What are you going to mess up? Who's how you going to pay?

But the more rational ones tend to be a little bit dialed down. Well, Jade, I'm afraid if I take a side hustle, it's going to be when I come home from work in the evenings, which means I won't be able to pick up my kids, which means I'll miss their softball practice, which mean Right. And you've really dialed it down, that's probably a little bit more rational, and we can talk about that.

>> Yeah. >> But once you've written the fear down, once you've asked yourself, is it true or is it not true? Is it rational or is it irrational? Then we can get about the business of landing on, well, what is what is a more truthful statement that I want to replace that fear with?

>> Yeah, it's absolutely right. I love it.

Just one of the many uh times that you talk about emotions. By the way, we've told you about it. Uh because it it goes on pre-sale today. So exciting. Uh what no one tells you about money. You can pre-order it right now. You get it for the best price. $24.99.

Ramseyolutions.com/store.

You get to see Jade's phenomenal arms on the cover as well. That's bonus.

>> All about the arms. Forget about the content inside. >> Yeah. That comes with the book. That's just bon that's just bonus content. Uh

for those of you men and women alike that would like to have better arms. That's right. It will motivate you. >> Better arms, better money starts today.

>> There it is. That's the That's the subtitle of the book. [laughter] Uh but no, you can get it right now. Fabulous book.

Uh by the way, we don't have a book like this. >> No, we don't. >> And uh there's not a book about the emotional side of money. So, this is a great book that I'll tell you just personally is handinand glove with anything else we've ever written on money because if you don't understand the emotional side of it, you can and will many times get tripped up because you are a human.

You're >> right. It is human. >> And you know, we think about human doing, but we forget sometimes that we're actual human beings.

>> And the human being part makes the human doing part harder. And Jade's come alongside of us and uh given us a real life [snorts] uh a real life story full of stories.

>> Oh, it's all story >> on how to win with it. So, you're really going to enjoy it. Go get it. Now, Ryan is up in Virginia. Ryan, how can we help today?

>> Well, good afternoon, Ken and Jay. How are you doing today? >> We're doing well. What's happening with you? Well, I seem to have be having some

decision paralysis and I was wondering if you could just give me some help. Um, I'm a natural saver and at the moment I have about $180,000

in uh cash savings and I'm just trying

to figure out how to best deploy it for

retirement uh eventually purchasing a home and just the future.

>> Okay. So, do you have any debt? >> Would be helpful? >> No, not free. >> All right. So, you're familiar with the baby steps?

>> Yes. What baby step are you? >> My understanding um um I believe four,

five, and six. >> Okay. So, you are actively investing in this 180 is above and beyond your normal 15% that you're putting into retirement.

>> Yes. Yeah. Currently, I have um if I did

my math right, about 20% going into retirement through a mandatory retirement with my state and then a supplementary uh 403b.

>> Okay. Wow. >> And what is your emergency fund? Is it 3 months, four months, 5 months, 6 months?

How much is it? >> Um it's just the the 180.

>> Okay. So, what would be three months of your expenses?

Uh, three months of my expenses would be

uh $4,500.

>> Okay. And is it just you?

>> Uh, it's just me. I'm single.

>> Okay. >> Three Hold on a second. Three months expenses is $4,500.

>> Yeah, I live pretty frugally. >> What's it What's your I mean for What's your >> You live under a roof. >> What's your rent? What do you pay for rent? >> Yeah, that's about right. Um, at the moment I pay um I I rent a room from

family members. So in addition to monetary uh blood and sweat. So >> Okay. >> Uh current rents about $400.

>> Okay. >> And how much blood and sweat are we giving? Sounds pretty gross.

>> Um just enough to keep things the household moving. >> All right. Who you live who are you living with? >> Uh my parents. >> Okay. >> How old are you?

Um 34.

>> How much How much do you make again?

What's your takehome? >> Uh take-home uh monthly is a little over

4,000. >> Hey bro, you're 34. It's time to flee the nest. >> Yeah. What's up with that? >> I know. I know. We We've talked about it. Um we >> I have me and my brother. So pretty open

financially as well. >> How old is your brother? He's um now he's uh 32.

>> So your brother is like, "Hey man, it's time, right?" >> Oh, no. He's uh he's also on the property. >> Oh, no. That's what I'm getting at. You got two brothers who are still living home. I assume there's no women on the radar for either one of you, right?

>> Women on the radar, >> huh? >> Not at the moment. >> Didn't think so. Do do you think there might be a correlation between the fact that you're mid to low30s living with your BROTHER AT YOUR MOM AND DAD'S HOUSE?

>> Uh as probably some of it. The other is

I don't uh I'm a homebody. So >> yes, but be a homebody in your own home.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, it's not a dating show. So regardless of no women being on the screen, uh you need to be out on your own. So you got $180,000. I'll give

it to Jade. We we got about a minute and a half with you. He's got 180 in cash, no debt. >> He's investing about 20%. Jay, >> I know. So, here's what I want you to do. You're >> and he's washing the dishes every night. I forgot to mention that. >> Thing number one is I want tonight your homework tonight is go go look and see

where you can rent an apartment. Start doing research on places that areas of town you want to live in and find out how much an apartment is. Okay? And then what I want you to do with that information of the apartment, >> tell your brother. [laughter] >> Well, yeah. Listen, >> there's your roommate at least. Let's get them both out at the same time.

>> For the first time ever, I I I want you to live on your own. >> Yeah, I agree. [laughter] I agree. I agree. You can I have I have lived on my own before. >> Good. And you're going to do it again. And what I want you to do once you've figured out how much rent is now, I want

you to save up a real 3 to six months of expenses based off of that number of because the $400 the $4,500 that's not going to serve you once you move out. So do it based off the rent numbers of a real place. And then after that, when's

move in date? Cuz that's really all you need. you've got the money and then I would turn [music] around and with the money that you have, I would keep it in a high yield savings account because you're going to keep adding to it [music] because eventually you're going to go from renting a place to buying your own place. So don't invest it.

Keep it liquid because you're going to do that in less than 5 years. >> And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 3. "Should I Open Up A Secret Bank Account to Protect Myself?" | December 5, 2025


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:55:39 |

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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. [music] From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Thanks for joining us. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, [music] Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter, she's my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

[music] Sadi is in Vancouver. Hi Satie, how are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Um, so I have a bit of an odd question.

Um, I'm wondering if I should open up a

secret bank account without my husband knowing in case of an emergency.

>> H, what kind of emergencies do you see

happen? >> Sorry, I'm I'm pretty nervous. Um,

we overspend um a lot each month and

um I'm really trying to um like keep her

keep our [clears throat] payments down on things, but um most of our overspending comes from him and we have

a difficult time talking about finances.

I mean, we're we're getting better at it, but it's still not where it needs to

be at all. For example, two months ago, we over spent by $3,500 and last month

was $2,500.

>> Where's this money coming from? Um

>> um well it's all on credit cards right now. >> Okay. How long you been married? Huh?

>> 10 years. >> Okay.

Okay. There's never a situation

where lying and deception

solves a problem.

All that is is a No, hold on. Hold on.

>> All that does is avoid the problem.

That does not fix your situation.

>> No. >> Okay. It's gonna make it worse instead.

So, I'm not going to tell you to do this because it's not good for you. I'm going to encourage you instead to head straight into the situation wide open. I want you to sit down with a

marriage counselor and I want you to

have an absolute righteous anger fit.

Your husband is misbehaving unbelievably

>> and it's terrifying you.

>> Yeah. >> And I want you to do something about it.

>> Not hiding not hide money from him.

>> We We are um in marriage counseling, but

we've only had a couple sessions so far.

>> Yeah. Yeah. This is not working. This need This is an emergency. tell the marriage counselor that the house is on fire and we're going to die if we don't

fix the fire. We can't just sit around and discuss our uh potty training as children. We've got to deal with this misbehavior today.

>> Yeah. >> Big time.

Big time.

Rachel and I can both hear the terror in your voice.

>> Yeah. And then I mean this doesn't fix the problem but to this thought I'm thinking if I if I am you protecting some level of something and it wouldn't

be a secret account but you would tell him I'm I because we do say don't separate your finances when you're married except for and we do have some exceptions to that and so Sadie this would be one of them for me I if I were you and you would have to tell him again it's not in secret but I'm opening up a separate checking account in my name because I don't feel safe financially with you. It feels irresponsible. I don't know what to do. And if we don't fix this, this is I mean, these are things that end marriages, Satie, and I don't want that for you.

But it's a reflection of who he is. And that makes me that makes me nervous. And it makes me nervous that you can't talk to him about it. You know, it's one thing if he's if he obvious if he's obviously very grieved by, you know, what I don't know, I'm just making this up, that he has a spending addiction or something and he knows the problem.

>> Yeah. Well, yeah, he has like there's things that he's going through that we're also working on together. So, it's

a lot of times it seems like when I want to have >> Wait, wait a minute. What does that mean? That was vague. What are you What are you saying?

>> Things that he's going through.

>> Probably addiction. >> Well, um I don't I wouldn't I don't know if it would classify it as an addiction. Um he used to have a drinking problem that got really bad, but I think I like he I

caught it early enough that he started working on that. So, he's doing a lot better. Like a lot better. Um, but it

does, you know, if he has to slip up one

day, then it means that spending in other areas goes up as well. Um, and

it's usually things like eating out and

video games. >> Yeah. What I'm hearing is a very immature, very irresponsible little boy.

And you've been trying to be his mommy for 10 freaking years and you're really tired.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I don't think I don't think you're going to last much longer if you guys if he doesn't turn this around. So, I think you need to have a really blunt, in-your-face discussion with your marriage counselor and go, "I don't have a lot left in my tank. I'm about done with this guy." >> Okay. >> He's going to have to get his crap together really quick.

>> Do you work, Sadie? Where's the income coming from?

>> Um, it's all from him. And then I get a

child tax benefit because we have three kids. >> Okay. >> But you you're not working outside the home. >> No. >> Okay. All right.

Well, I I think you got to start thinking about um making this as big a deal as it is.

But no, I don't we're not going to tell you to open a secret account. I I'm with Rachel, though. if you want to open your own account and put half the dad gum money in that account and just tell him you're doing it and he can't have it.

Um, you know, and until we get until we get you this >> until you start behaving, you know, cuz this is just out of control. I'm so sorry, honey. >> Well, it may I mean, he's he obviously has a a lot a lot to work on and I don't

and I the language of which obviously we're not in the situation of the slip up and this and that. I think things are more serious uh than you're probably giving weight to Sat or probably you're feeling and maybe not saying but there's a lot of a lot of dysfunction and red flags and for his sake wanting healing and wholeness right >> like a lot of that's coming from somewhere that pain is is manifesting and and going out you know every

direction for him and so figuring that out but in the meantime you and your kids uh yeah financially to keep you

safe >> because you want to keep the lights on right And you just continue to dig deeper in credit card on the table >> and where you can control is cutting up

the credit cards, getting all the credit cards out, you guys together cutting everything up, you know, stopping access points. Now, could he go apply for something in his own right and secret?

Sure. But you can't control that. What can you do today? And as much as you can

figure out where there is money for him to outsource, like stop it, you know, at where it begins. Um, but I'm so I'm so

sorry, Satie. >> This is this is a this is deteriorating before your very eyes and we may see it more clearly than

you do in the sense that um we're we're I don't think we're overreacting, hun. I think you're underreacting. And so I'm I'm >> so overwhelming, you know, not not working, having the three kids and thinking what what's my exit plan if this were the case? I mean, that is so that is so scary and overwhelming to even think about. But um but those are probably discussions if if you have good friends. Um find community and start and

start thinking through Satie for for your life. But my prayer is that you guys heal this and that he finds healing

in his own work um for for your sake

because I'm I'm so so sorry.

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Vicki is in Savannah. Hi Vicki. How can we help? >> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so our question is, um, we're a

little bit confused on what my husband and I are a little bit confused on what our next steps are because there are so many moving parts.

Um, we currently have a home that we So, we

lived in Tennessee and we ended up moving to uh, South Carolina. I'm just

above the border of Savannah. M >> um and we moved to live with my dad um to save some money to buy a house because when we were ready to buy a house, we finally paid back all of our student loans and it was 2021 and then

everything skyrocketed. So, we couldn't get ahead of it. So, my dad was very nice um and said, "Okay, you move in

with us." But before we moved in, we had signed on a new built home. So, before we moved to where we live now, we signed on a new built home. um and then moved to dad and saved some money but we didn't realize that the area was a little bit expens definitely more expensive than Tennessee um but you know we were great we could save the money and during that time my dad had a mini stroke so um we needed to stay and we

have to see him because he he's not married or anything like that and he's the only person we have for the kids my husband's family's in a different country things like that so um we then

moved into our house now, which was 453

at the time, and we ended up putting 67,000 down. That's the only thing we could save. But when we signed, uh, it took about a year to build. And when we closed, um, it ended up closing at 8% interest, which was the highest interest rate. So, we had to buy it down like a little bit, but, um, we've been struggling ever since. Since then, we have four kids, four and under. Um, all

of them are developmentally delayed and they all have so many services. Um,

two of them are already on the spectrum.

Um, and then our current mortgage is 373

um, at 7% interest. My husband makes

132. I have a three-month old baby and I was supposed to be a stay- at- home mom, but I went back to work. Um,

[snorts] >> [clears throat] >> And uh my my husband works three jobs right now. Um he's a data analyst and he works uh he's a tennis coach on the weekends and he works Kroger at night to try to get some some uh grocery bills down. Um we don't we're just we're not

sure what to do. We we know we have to sell the house and we've tried selling the house twice already and it's not selling. I was pregnant with my third at the time and then I got too far along um

and had to had to take it off and then I was pregnant with my fourth and it was on for four or five months and I got too far along had to take it off. Um, and

we're not sure what to do. And and now we're having an issue where, you know, behind us is unincorporated land and they're shooting their guns um into our neighborhood and it finally hit a fence and a house. Um, and it's been on the news already. And we can't let our our

four children out in the front because when we bought the house, it was the beginning of the neighborhood. And now that they've built in the neighborhood, it's a main road. So every time we're out there, one of them gets hit. And obviously I said they're on the spectrum so I can't really tell them to um to

like it's it's difficult to teach them.

So I I mean they're learning. They're there you know but we're we're really on it. Um and we're not quite sure what to

do because the homes for rent here are

you know renting is just throwing money away. We know that. Um, we know that we can only afford like a 300,000, but that doesn't exist here. And >> stop. Stop. Stop. >> I'm sorry. [laughter] >> It's okay. It's okay. All right. Um, so

what you're starting to do is you're starting to use language that says there's no way out. And that's simply not true.

Okay? You can't make a statement about South Carolina and Savannah, Georgia area that says there's no $300,000 houses. That's not a true statement.

Mhm. >> There might not be one you want to live in, but there are $300,000 houses and um

>> Yeah, we have looked at some >> So, you have to wait. You have to sell this house >> and you have to remain not pregnant long enough to sell this house.

>> Mhm. >> You can't have any more kids. You got to get out of this house.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. two times you had tried to sell the house and you were pregnant and that's what stopped it in your story if I heard your story right.

>> Okay. Yeah. And so we're gonna have to start planning some very making some very clear decisions and um you've got a

lot of like you said a lot of variables.

There's a lot of things coming at you that are draining the uh gas out of your

tank, the fuel out of your tank. You have your hands full, kiddo. I mean what you described in a perfect world if all the finances were in really good shape with the kids situation you've got with you working on spectrum stuff and you're working on small babies and everything else you are absolutely overwhelmed just with that a normal human would be okay and and

then let's go ahead and have a few bullet rounds come past your house that that always helps you know and then let's add to that the fact that this whole financial stress thing is a mess and it's a mistake and you know you shouldn't have done it and you feel bad about doing it every time you think about it. And so you pile these things up and pile these things and pile these things and pile these things and then the situation just becomes you start your brain starts to tell you that you can't get out that you're stuck and it's wrong.

You can get out.

>> Get on get on the get on the web, jump on Ramsey Solutions, find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent and put a sign in the yard tomorrow.

now.

>> Okay. >> We have been I'm sorry. We we've been looking at homes on the outskirts.

>> Okay. >> But the homes on the outskirts um for

lack [clears throat] of a better term are are like the ghetto. Like the the schools don't offer the services that all of my children need. And if we move anywhere else, there's weight list.

>> There is no scenario that you can stay in this house and have a good life.

>> No. Yeah. We're like, >> "So, we have to solve. We have to solve for the kids. >> We have to solve for it, not find reasons it can't be done." >> Okay. You haven't found the solution yet. I understand that.

>> But that doesn't mean there's not one out there. >> Yeah. We thought of another of a solution. Um, there's still building in our neighborhood currently, and we thought about selling this house,

but putting money down on a new build in

the back of the community. But those are still I mean the cheapest one we found was45 and >> you can't afford to live there.

>> Yeah. >> It's killing you.

>> Why would you sign up for more pain?

>> You can't live in that neighborhood. You can't afford it.

you you need to move to something that you can afford and and get your life back. Because listen, if your payments were under control, your husband wasn't working six jobs, you weren't trying to pick up a job, and all you had to deal with was your children, your the situation with your children, that's more than anybody ought to have to say grace over without all the other stuff.

You've got to get some of these things off your plate. You're this is not a sustainable >> situation. and you're going to blow up.

>> And I think the hard thing is trying to

make everything work.

>> You can't make everything work. >> So that's it. So I think there's a a a level of I mean it's kind of almost like grief of like wow I really thought this from a location a school like X Y and Z

was going to look like this and realizing it can't it can't look like this. And so in order for us to get margin and peace, it's probably going to mean, yeah, maybe a move financially that is way better. Maybe the schools aren't as great, but most public schools have the ability. I mean, depending on the county, um, of helping and and your and your kids are small.

I mean, they're not even really in elementary school if I heard you right. They're they're probably like >> two of them are very young. by Yeah. So, um, so if anything, I would just want that stability of of margin and and being able for your husband to quit one of the jobs, right?

>> the physical the physical attributes of the house you're in do not make a home.

>> The location of the house you're in doesn't make a home. You and your husband as a couple make a home for those kids. And it, you know, most

everyone listening to you calling in right now lived in a home that was a lot worse than you're living in now when we were growing up. Almost everyone listening.

Me especially

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>> Paul's in Seattle. Hey Paul, how are you? >> Great. How are you? Thanks for having me. >> Sure. What's up?

Uh, so I'm finding myself in between a rock and a hard place. Um, about I've

been at my current job for about 20 years. Um, I've started when I was 20.

I'm 40 years old now. And um, it's a warehouse job, right? So I took it when I was younger because I, you know, was the the best paying job at the time. Um, I've invested with a pension there. It's union. It's it's great on paper, but about 5 years ago, I started my own landscaping business, law landscaping business. And um it has exploded and it

kind of took off to the point to where I've been doing both for about 5 years

now. And I'm stuck in the spot where

how do you know when it's time to go?

Because I find myself with a lot of fear of the unknown of losing something that's so secure that you've been a part of for about 20 years. And >> well, boat anchors boat anchors are secure, >> but they'll drown you. >> Yeah. >> So, what are you making at the day job?

>> Uh, I think we we make about $38 an hour

or something like that. >> So, what do you make a year at the day job? >> Uh, probably about 807 7580 I would say.

>> And what do you do at the warehouse for $80,000?

>> We are uh union pickers. Basically, order selectors. We fulfill orders. You load him, you know, >> $80,000.

>> Yeah. About $75,000.

>> Well, he's been there 20 years. >> I don't care. >> Two. >> You're picking boxes for 80 grand.

That's amazing. >> Okay. >> But just like you said, I'm all I'm doing is moving boxes. And I feel like my purpose, my goal, I'm not >> So, what are you making at landscaping?

What was your profit last year?

Uh, I mean, because I'm doing it both on side, I would probably say it's probably a little bit less than that, but you have to understand I'm only doing it about 20 hours. >> No, that wasn't what I asked. What I asked is what you actually made on your tax return. What was your profit?

>> Probably about 60.

>> Okay, good. All right. Um, and and for

me, you know, I don't have any I don't have any debt in my business because it's all been so all the money that I've been making, I've just been paying off all my equipment, you know, so our family has >> Do you have any other debt?

>> No, we have no household debt. We have no credit card. >> What does it take a month for your household to operate?

>> I would say on the most expensive end, maybe $4,500 a month.

>> Okay. Well, you can quit tomorrow if you want. My wife works at the court so I can get on her medical. Um, we have about $20,000 in savings for our nest egg. No credit card debt. >> You can quit tomorrow if you want.

>> I mean, and I and and I know this, but me being the sole provider and going into the unknown, it's it's almost like I feel like I'm getting a divorce, you know, for 20 years. It's I've almost been at that job longer than I have not been. >> Yeah. But she's not a good wife.

[laughter] >> No, it's not. Um it's just the getting the courage enough, [laughter] >> you know, getting the courage enough to to Well, and not only that, it's >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

Very much so. >> Let me let me let me stop you a second. Okay. Your security does not come from

someone else's ability to provide you a paycheck. That is an illusion.

Your security comes from your ability to get up, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. You have two methods of doing that now. One is you've been employed for a long long time lifting

boxes. One is you've grown your own business. That's two ways that you can get up, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. But the idea that I have a stable job, stables are where

they keep horses when they don't run.

>> So go run.

Okay? Go do this. It It's an illusion.

your stability, your your sense of security is an illusion because you're basing it on the fact that those goobers over there at the warehouse are going to write you a check and somehow the union's going to take care of you.

Laugh, laugh, cough, cough.

>> Exactly. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, now let's go back to who's really going to take care of you. God

and Paul.

>> Absolutely. go run your landscaping business and make $130,000 a year and

work a considerable less hours a week and enjoy your life.

>> And that's what I'm after. You know, I mean, I felt like, you know, I I've I started when I was young and my priorities as I've gotten older have have changed drastically about what's important to me and just time with my family and just being able to prove to myself that I'm able to make a living for myself. But it's a very scary thing to do when you leave them there and trying to get >> It would be scary if you were making 30,000 at the landscaping.

If you told me you're making 20, I wouldn't tell you to quit, >> right? >> I would say, you know, get your hours up on the landscaping. Let's get the in get the boat closer to the dock before you jump. But your boat's really close to the dock. You're just stepping.

But you've been used to standing on the dock and you need to step into the boat, man. >> Well, and and and I know that, you know, I'm I'm turning away so much business because I can only I only have so much time. >> You don't have to convince me, Paul.

>> I'm already sold. I >> think he's convincing himself. >> I guess I guess the million question is, how do I convince my wife? [laughter] >> Oh, what is she saying? What's she saying?

>> Um, I love my wife to death, but you know, it's very one of it's it's one of those things where fear She she is very much so afraid of

>> change. And this is a very big change because we constantly >> listen, no one's afraid of change when changes for the better. They're only afraid of change if they don't think it's going to work.

>> If you get a brand new nice car and it's better than the old one. No one says, "I'm afraid of change." >> Right? >> They only fear change is if they think it's going to be worse. >> That's the only time people fear change. That's a misnomer. It's not true. So, we love change when it's for the better.

>> All of us do. So, yeah, I love change.

And so, all we've got to do is she's got to get her head around where money comes from. And it doesn't come from a quote

stable job. It comes from your ability to go into the marketplace and earn money. And dude, at any minute, you could go get a job like the one you've got again if this whole thing falls apart. Whoopty- doopy.

>> Yeah. >> But I promise you, it's not going to fall apart. I promise you. You got fiveear track record. You're talking to a guy who our our company consults 10,000 small businesses. We coach a lot of small businesses. I would tell you the truth. You know, I would if this idea sucked, I would tell you it sucked.

>> Yeah. >> It doesn't suck. This will help.

>> Yeah. And it, you know, being being in being in Seattle, the evergreen state, you know, it was just one of those things. I really enjoyed it. You know, I I did it as a side hustle because, you know, we were just looking for more income and it just exploded into something I could imagine. >> I'm already sold. I'm already sold.

>> I'm already sold. You don't have to sell me. You just got to talk to her about it. And the bottom line is is you're gonna be just fine.

>> You're gonna be just fine. >> Yeah. How much does she make, Paul?

>> Uh she probably about as much as me. I mean, I would say she's probably in the 70, you know. I You're going to have a $150,000 household income almost immediately. >> And double of what you guys need to run your household, too. >> Yeah. You're making a lot. And you've done really good with your finances.

You're not in debt. You got an emergency fund. Everything about this is stable.

Stable. Stable. Stable. Stable. Hey, man. Go do it. This is the time. Fly and

be free. Please, please, please quit

that awful job. Please.

>> I know. And he said he's the sole provider. >> Have you ever Have you ever heard he's not the sole provider? >> That's it. So, she's I mean, >> guys out there in America, if you've ever heard the term golden handcuffs, you just witnessed it.

>> You've just heard the discussion. This is golden handcuffs. And it is a it's a fallacy. So my favorite story on this is

my grandpa lost a business in the Great Depression and he got a job at Alcoa Aluminum in the accounting department. He worked there 38 years because it was stable because it was a good job and because he was scared and he couldn't he didn't he didn't have >> Yeah. You had an income after the depression. He was happy to have a job and grateful to have a job. And my grandma was the same way and he worked there until he retired. And he was a wonderful man. He was a wonderful man.

So, I printed the Financial Peace book and went out on my own after we went broke and we're trying to get the Financial Peace book sold. And the

publisher sent me an email one day said, "We just sold our 1 millionth copy of Financial Peace." Then my phone rang and it was my grandmother and she said, "I was praying for you this morning. I think you need to get a job." [laughter]

>> Isn't that sweet? She's so sweet. It was >> like you're not Dave is Dave is not working. [laughter] >> He's writing books.

>> Well, I'm just worried about you. I mean, you're self-employed and it's not stable. >> Mhm. [laughter] >> Go get them, Paul.

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>> Steve is in Raleigh. Hi, Steve. How are you? >> Oh, I'm doing fine. It's great to be with you guys. >> You, too. How can we help?

So, I'm 62 years old and I've been trying to think about retirement. Um,

uh, the things that are holding me back are uh, well, health insurance is one

thing and also the fact that no money

will be coming in, but all money will be going out. Uh, and I having a hard time getting comfortable with that. And what I really want is somebody to tell me that I can stop.

>> Mhm. What do you mean no money will be coming in? You mean you won't be earning an income? >> That's right. >> Okay. And uh so do you have a pension?

Do you have a 401k nest egg?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I've got uh 401ks and IAS

and all that stuff. >> Okay. >> Um >> no pension.

>> No pension. >> How much is in all those accounts?

>> Uh 3.5 million.

>> Okay. All right. Well, if no money's coming in, it's just cuz you're not taking any of it is all. Okay? Cuz let's

just be What do you make a year?

>> Uh 175. >> Okay. Way to go, man. I'm proud of you.

>> Well done, Steve. >> I assume you started with nothing and became a multi-millionaire.

>> Yep. >> I'm very proud of you. That's amazing.

>> American dream is not dead. Gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, meet Steve. So now um so you understand that three 3.5 invested in good growth stock mutual funds if it averaged 10% would be 350k.

>> Yeah. >> Income that it produces without touching the nest egg.

>> Right. >> Which is twice what you make now.

>> Right. Uh I I guess that you know

there's still there's still you know there's some years it's going to be up some years it's going to be down. What do I do in the down years?

>> Use some of it.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So the the down years very seldom

are below 5%.

Find a time that the m that the stock market made under 5% the number of times in the last 30 years. Hardly ever.

>> Right. >> Okay. Right. like maybe two. And so you

use a little bit of the 3.5 maybe, but maybe don't take the whole 350 off.

Maybe take 200 off and let it grow by 150 to cover the down years.

>> Right. >> See, do you guys you It's impossible unless you lose your mind and join Congress for you to go through this money before you die. [laughter] >> Is your house paid off and everything, Steve? Any debt?

>> No, no debt. Okay. >> House paid. >> Okay. How long you've been married?

>> You know, I'm not married. Um, >> what is it you want to do with the the rest of your life?

>> I've still got to figure that out. I would like to travel some. Um, you know, life events, recent somewhat recent life

events have made me realize that what I

should be doing or what I feel like I should be doing is spending time with people that I love. >> Yep. >> And people that love me. >> Yep. And the whole, you know, pushing paper around is >> not a good use of my time >> anymore. >> What do you do for a living?

>> I'm a attorney.

>> Okay. All right. Cool.

>> Do you have family, Steve, around?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I've got a brother and sister. >> Okay. >> It's great. >> Okay. Well, I I'll tell you two things.

One is yes, I you're in excellent financial condition. You've done a wonderful job and you're able to retire.

And if you pulled off 200 and left let let it grow by 150 a year, this would run in perpetuation. And I don't know who you're going to leave the 3.5 3.5 3.5 3 oh 4 million. Oh 4 and a.5 million

because it's going to keep growing.

Okay? Because you're not going to use it all. So who you going to leave all that to? Uh so I easily, this is a no-brainer

equation. You're easily able to quit.

Then I will also tell you because I'm your age. I'm 65. I'm a little older.

and that you have friends and I have friends who retirement wasn't good to them emotionally,

>> right? >> They didn't know what to do with themselves. >> So, I would develop something I'm going to do. I don't care what it is, and it doesn't have to be 80 hours a week. It doesn't have to be pushing paper. uh you do have a unique skill and license that

you could probably do some things that would be unbelievable blessing to some ministries and to some nonprofits from an attorney's perspective um and not strain you even a little bit but give you something to lay your hand to the plow so you know you're still planting some corn in this earth >> right >> and you just need something to do >> Netflix doesn't cut it [laughter]

Yeah, that's true. You're right. Uh yeah, that's going to be key for me is having a plan. >> Yeah. So, I think I would develop that before I pull the trigger on this. But you're the question you called here for is mathematically this is a no-brainer.

>> Okay. >> It's 2x of a no-brainer,

>> right? Okay, that's good.

>> Yeah, you're you're in great shape. sit down with your financial coach or your financial advisor and talk about how you can draw 200K off this and make sure it's invested in something that's averaging what the market's averaging and you'll be just fine.

>> And uh >> well done, Steve. >> Yeah, man. That's amazing. It's amazing.

>> And it's interesting whatever happened, you know, we didn't ask, but he said, "Recent events have made me realize." Oh, wow. And it's use those those are gifts. whatever that is, whether it was a a tragedy or a gift, a blessing, whatever that thing was that caused this kind of change of heart to a degree, listen to that. I mean, there's something something in that for you.

>> Yeah. It's um Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's exact. It's very smart to do that. And you ought to be doing that at all ages as you go along. Uh but also when there's some when you have these certain >> uh appointments y God appointments that come across your path, you need to listen to them. You're right, Rachel.

Very good, Jeffson. Uh, wait a minute.

Before we do that, uh, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you're not getting anywhere? You're not, Steve. [laughter]

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Rachel, Steve and our caller before that trying to quit the warehouse job and go in business with yourself. It is amazing that when you >> uh are resilient >> and we people are talking a lot about resilience these days that that um that

that things have been pretty easy for a long time around America. And when things are hard, people don't know what to do because they don't know how to do hard stuff. And so teach your kids to do

hard stuff, boys and girls. And teach yourself to do hard stuff. Practice doing uncomfortable things because these are the actions of people that win. When you do that over a long period of time, take a job in the warehouse and you just get up and you go to work every day and

you do your work and you stick to it. A lot of people don't have stick to it. Does that guy had stick he stuck with it for 20 freaking years when Steve has been an attorney and he's just got it done. He keeps putting money aside. He builds up a $ three and half million dollar nest egg. Then when you stop

this resilience, this pushing, the

scratching and clawing and and persevering, sometimes we don't know what to do. Like I finally I I got there. >> Yeah. >> I went through the tape. I won the race or I finished the race. Now what?

>> Yeah. >> And and your your brain and your your

life rhythm is so bent on resilience and

scratching and clawing that it's hard to stop and take a step back and go, "Wait a minute, this worked.

This this landscaping thing's big enough. It works. It's almost like a celebration of your hard work to enjoy it. Enjoy the fruits, right? It's like people that call in and they don't know how to spend money because they've been saving their whole life. Same idea, right? It's a different muscle. >> Yeah. You have enjoy the fruits of what you've done. >> You really have to make a conscious thing. We see that a lot these days. A conscious effort to say if I've been busting it to downshift and enjoy a

little bit is it that's a different gear. It's a different gear, but it's a good gear.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at88255225.

So, Rachel, I was on uh Fox a little bit earlier and we're talking about affordability for housing and this um uh

people not being able to afford a house and the the sense of depression about that and so forth. And so I've done a little bit of uh discussion and analysis on that. And um I want to let you guys

out there know a couple things that that um we're we're thinking and we're seeing around here. There's kind of two sides to the coin. Side one of the coin is what could be done. Okay. So house prices are affected always by supply and

demand.

And we have had an inventory shortage,

more buyers than sellers for about 20

years.

We've had more buyers than sellers. And anytime you have a shortage of anything, the price goes up. Pretty simple economics, right? Um whether it's a

Nintendo or a Cabbage Patch doll or a house, when there's a shortage of something, the price goes up. Too many people chasing too few goods. kind of thing. So, what then we start thinking about, okay, what could you do to boost inventory? Well,

there are a couple of things that have been happening that have been harming inventory pretty considerably. And this is actually one of the few times you're he'll hear Dave say that the government could actually do something about this.

Okay. One is we've got large

REITs, real estate investment trusts, and American corporations and Chinese corporations buying thousands and

thousands and thousands of single family homes. >> Mhm. >> And taking them off the market and putting them up for rent. I mean, like

five or 600,000 in the past few years.

>> It's a lot. It's not just a few. So, one

thing you could do, and I'm really against limiting free enterprise, but when when uh the basic use of a single

family home is for a family to get a tow

hold in the marketplace and to build wealth and to have a stable place to live when that's being affected by

foreign organizations and by out of control capitalism, then yeah, you got to put some limits on that. >> So, you some kind of a stoppage stop

that. Yeah. >> Another thing that's draining the market is Airbnbs.

>> Tens of thousands of single family homes, condos, uh, co-ops, whatever are all they're all they're bought by people at unrealistic prices only because they're turning them into a hotel >> and they're making tons of money and people are buying 8, 10, 20, 15 of them at a time. And uh, and that did not

exist 20 years ago. Okay. And so some

kind of a limitation, not necessarily a

complete stopping of that, right?

>> But limiting the number of units that go off the market so that a young couple getting married have a house to buy instead of it turning into an Airbnb >> because somebody bought it nothing down using some stupid Tik Tok guy's formula to buy it. Okay? So, you know, some kind of limitation on that. But here's one.

I was talking to Brian Befini about this the other day. He's the top real estate co. >> Oh yeah. Does he he's in this >> he's he's really into this stuff and he and I were having a discussion on the back porch about it and he had such great ideas.

He said and I had not thought of this. I just thought it's brilliant.

it up when it was but it's at least 20 years ago that the capital gains law on single family homes was changed.

>> And it was a big deal. It used to be that you uh got a tax break a little bit

on your personal residence and they changed it massively to whatever it was 20 years ago and said, "Okay, married filing jointly, you can make up to a half million dollars.

Single can make up to 250,000 tax-free >> on the growth of your >> capital gain on your personal residence if you own it one year or more." Okay?

>> And that was a big breakthrough.

>> Well, guess what? Half million dollars and much anymore. >> Mhm. and he said raising that to a

million >> would take a bunch of boomers >> out of their home to >> that would say >> I'm I would downsize but I'm going to have to pay stinking much tax that I'm not going to downsize >> and see if that level >> will sell the next level sells to move up into that and the next level below that moves up you create a domino down the price points >> and so giving a million dollar exemption instead of a half million dollar exemption and even do it on all uh small

ownership. Yeah. >> So, if you had two rentals and you wanted to dump them and you can make up to a million dollars, you dump those back into the inventory pool for that sweet young couple to have a place to buy. >> And but they don't want to get rid of that rental because the tax Yeah.

the amount of taxes and there is no capital gains break on that except you're paying 15% or if you make over 400,000 you pay 20%. Right. >> So, you get hammered if you've got a house like I've got a bunch of houses. I probably got 15 houses.

Most of our real estate is not houses, but I got 15 or 20.

>> But I'm not going to give the government a bunch of money. So, I'm instead I'm going to have to do some kind of 1031, roll them, and I'll get them back out of the market uh and and turn them into commercial property. But most people won't do that. I I actually know how to do it. Your husband and I will be doing that together. So, but the um but if you

gave people a tax break on the rentals that they own >> and a t of a up to a million >> Yeah. >> and on their personal residence that there'd be a bunch of houses going to market. >> Interesting. Yeah. >> And that would stimulate this inventory.

So, if we could start dumping in and he brought up one other thing that's really technical, but it's true. Uh, so when you do development, if you develop a subdivision, if you're a developer, you buy a piece of land and you put in a street and you put in the utilities and you go through all the stupid permitting and you put up with the stupid city and you go through all the stupid stuff about the trees and the stupid stuff about the creeks and all the stupid stuff you have to do to develop a subdivision, right?

Okay, when you finish with all that stupid stuff, all those expenses you can't expense. They have to be depreciated over a large number of years. So you could put >> $15 million in a sewer system for a subdivision. >> Yeah.

>> And you don't get to write off $15 million. You get to write off a million a year for 15 years or something like that. >> And if you up that >> and he said if you just said they can expense it instead of depreciating it, that would stimulate developers to start building subdivisions, which would stimulate >> Yeah. >> You know, and so you could do that, but that's giving the evil businessman a tax break.

Oh my god, you liberals.

anyway, the um but this is how you get the thing started. >> Mhm. >> You actually get tax breaks to people to cause them to do this stuff. Quit. Let me keep my money >> and I'll go do stuff.

>> Yeah. >> That's what investors say and that's what people say when they're selling their house. I'm not selling this house. I'm not giving the government all that money. It's my money. And if you say, "Okay, you could keep your money." It'll stimulate the stinking inventory.

>> Yeah. The other side of the coin, though, and I've almost used up all my time here, and I'm not going to take two segments on this, is we're increasingly realizing that the 25 and 26 year old in America has been screwed by the large banks and the car companies like never before, like no generation before. So, if you're 25 or 26, you've been screwed by the big banks like you've never been screwed before >> from the loans that they're having.

They've, you know, you cannot buy a house when you have a $1,200 car payment. When you have a student loan that's $85,000 and you got credit card debt coming out your ears, record credit card debt, record car debt, record debt,

debt, debt, debt, debt. And then you sit there and whine and you can't buy a house because you got victimized by these people. You set yourself up for it. You signed up for the trip, baby, but you've been screwed by the city banks. What's in your wallet?

The money that's going to city bank should have been going to buy you a house.

H.

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[music]

>> [music]

[music] >> Jeff's in Texas. Hey, Jeff. How are you?

>> Good. How are y'all today? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, I'm trying to figure out uh what I should do with my house to move along with my debt snowball. Um, I work out of

town. I'm probably home in my house about 60 days a year. The rest of the time I'm in my camper. And so I'm trying to figure out if I should sell my house, rent it out to renters, or uh just keep it.

>> You're single? >> Yeah. No, I'm married with two kids.

>> They're in the camper. >> What are y'all doing in the camper?

What's Is it travel? Is it work?

>> Work? >> Yeah. I'm in the oil and gas industry, so I'm not traveling for work.

How much is the How much is the house worth?

>> Um, I think we could probably sell it for about 265. I think around Yeah, about 265, 270. >> What do you make a year?

>> I take home 145.

>> Okay.

Part of me would have you keep it just

to have a piece of have a home, you know, a piece of real estate. >> How old are you?

um 32 and watch 31.

>> Okay. So, I think the big deal is um we

don't want to make a decision based on the snapshot that is the moment. Let's instead look at the field the the film strip and see how this film is going to end. >> So, what are you going to be doing in 10 years?

>> Well, I'm hoping, you know, spend another three to five years in this industry and then go home with everything paid for is kind of my goal.

>> Yeah. And then at that time my kids would start school and the wife could go back to work. >> Yeah. Keep it. >> And then paid for. Keep it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You keep it. >> Okay. >> Because that's what that's why you're keeping it. Not for not for its current use. You're keeping it for where this is going. >> And you guys want to be in that area, Jeff. Do you think if you were to if you were to forecast it? Okay.

>> It's definitely a good area. It's got a good school district. That's why I bought it to begin with. Yeah. But uh so you keep it even if like if I sold it, I'd be able to pay off um 40 the other 40,000 in debt, which >> Yeah, you make you make 140,000. You can pay that off.

>> Okay. So, cuz I figured I can pay everything else off besides camper in 10 months. And the camper, it's it's got a lot of debt on it, too. About 84,000.

>> Okay. Yeah, that's going to be a problem. The camper is the expense. Um

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's a cost of you >> of your career.

your career cost you money and the campers, you know, the loss of value in that thing because those things go down in value like faster than anything on the planet. >> This is going to just like like when you're done, you're going to be with cousin Eddie, you know. >> Yeah. So, well, I would just hate to Yeah. to sell an asset like a house that's going to go up in value to pay for something that's going to go down in value. >> Yeah. >> So, >> so you would What about renting it?

Would you would you consider renting?

>> No, I don't think I would.

I think I just I think I would enjoy my house when I can get home and use it.

And there might be some times that the family stays and you go out for two weeks and work and let them enjoy the stability of the house instead of living in a freaking camper.

>> Yeah. It's so nice to go home and have room and space. Amen. Cooped up and, you know, >> Well, yeah. Even though the camper's big, they're not spacious.

>> Yeah. This one's not going to roll away.

I mean, I It's that It matters. It matters. I think it's going to be good for the psychology of your relationship with your wife and your kids for them to have a solid home base to touch base in

and to rest a little and you can go out and do a few weeks and come back and occasionally they can go out with you in the camper and come back and then you just but you continue to bust it. What you're doing is paying a price to get to a place.

What you're doing now you have no intention of doing the rest of your life.

>> Correct. Yeah. And the company I'm with is based where I live. So there's maybe an opportunity to go, you know, tell them I'm done in the field and hopefully try to work from the the home office there. >> I would start having those discussions and say 3 to 5 years, what classes do I need to take? What mentorship program do I need to be in to be able to come home

in 3 to 5 years? I'm going to bust it.

I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. I'm not quitting. I just need to I need this is my plan and I want to make sure you guys have a plan, too, that matches my plan.

>> Yes, sir. I'd start talking to your team, your your leadership team about that. Um because they know that you guys don't do this stuff forever.

>> Yeah. >> There's a shelf life on what you do,

>> right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. I mean, there there's not any 65 year olds much doing what you're doing.

>> Yeah. Correct. >> Yeah. That's what I mean. So, they're used to people turnurning out or turnurning up over time. And I'd want to get I just want to get dialed in with that and get aligned with them on what I need to be doing to get that opportunity >> so that I've got a place to go. Not next month, maybe not next year, but in 3 to

5 years, I'm going to be doing something different. And so let let's be let's be working that out. Yeah, I'd keep it.

Jeff, it's a good question. It's an interesting question. I don't know if I've ever thought about that that way, but if he had said >> we'll get that with truck drivers that lives >> Yeah. If he had said 15 years, I might have said, "Sell it." >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But three to five. >> Yeah. And the littles, they got a place to They got a home base they can stay in. >> Yeah. >> That's cool. >> Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Michael's in San Diego. Hey, Michael.

>> Hey, Dave. How Rachel. How are you guys?

>> Great. How can we help?

>> Uh, I have a bit of a career question that I need advice on. I recently took a

completely different career path in a different job that pays about $30,000 more a year to try to help my wife and I get out of baby step two a little bit faster. >> Cool. >> But I'm noticing Yeah. Yeah. I know we're excited, but I am noticing some pretty kind of severe red flags about this new position there. Every It's a director of sales position. Um, everybody in this department is new. The

turnover is extremely high and I already have people there that are very upset that have only been there for about a month. >> What are they upset about? >> Kind of. >> Well, my sales reps, they have zero leads. There's literally no one doing any kind of marketing. And >> were they promised leads?

>> Uh, yeah, to a certain degree. It's an

expectation that they're to make a certain amount of phone calls per day and they can't even meet those phone calls per day because there's nothing in our CRM tool for them to work on. Um, so

I'm concerned about like long-term.

>> Is this a new company?

>> No, this company's been around for a significant period of time. Uh, they went through a transition recently.

>> This doesn't sound like an integrity problem. It sounds like a competence problem.

>> I Yeah, I would I would agree. Uh, I'm

just more concerned about like long-term longevity, right? Like with this career, should I stick around for a year or two?

Kind of see. >> Well, if I'm going to stick around, I'm going to work on the problems >> and I'm going to get some help from leadership working on the problems.

>> Just sit here and watch the thing burn down. >> No. No. And and of course, I agree with you, but I've already brought some things to leadership and they're not really open to discussion.

Wait a minute. We don't have any leads in the CRM tool. You want these guys to make calls and there's no calls for them to make and leadership says I don't want to talk about it.

>> Pretty much. >> Why? That's weird. Do you want to lose your whole sales team?

>> Yeah, it's again it's very odd to me and

I've started looking at like who's doing the marketing, how's the marketing handled, can we get out into the community? I've started to ask these questions and the response I got was that's why your predecessor is no longer here >> because he asked questions.

[laughter] >> Um, >> is that what he meant? Is that what that meant >> about? Yeah. About the leads in particular? Yes.

>> Okay. Look for a job.

>> Okay. >> Bizarre. >> Yeah. You need to get another job.

>> Okay. >> This one's not going to last. You're going to get fired.

>> Yeah. My my old job will have me back right now. >> No, I don't want you to go take a pay cut. I want you to make more money.

Let's get a new job making 30,000 more than you're making now.

>> Okay. >> Only this time, it's working for competent leaders.

>> Yeah. Well, thank you guys for [laughter] I appreciate it. >> Is this an epic leadership fail or what?

This sounds like corporate America beyond belief. The last guy that asked questions is no longer here. We can't find his body. And don't ask questions.

That'll get you killed. What? What kind of corporate crap is that? That's just crap. >> Is it a large company, Michael?

>> Yes. >> Um, it it is. Yeah, it's it's a it's a large company. >> Yeah, they're large enough to absorb this level of crap.

>> And this one department that you happen to be stuck in. >> Yeah, really. Good God, man. What an

what a corporate idiot. Well, the last guy that asked questions doesn't work here anymore. Don't ask any questions.

Good [laughter] god.

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Not in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Greg in New York. My wife and I are approaching our 60s debtree including our home and have a net worth of over 2.5 million including

$125,000 in a high yield savings. We

bring home about $14,000 a month and our expenses are about $8,500. I plan to

partially retire from my job soon by cutting back my hours. My wife wants to keep working for a while, bringing home about $3,000 a month with benefits.

We've agreed to go gazelle intense again by cutting expenses and living like poor college kids, only this time enjoying home-cooked dinners instead of ramen noodles to help us with the transition.

Does that make sense at this stage or are we in a good enough position to start shifting towards balance and enjoyment?

I think you have I think you have some margin. I think you're okay.

>> Yeah, you you >> Greg, you >> you guys need to um redo your math.

Okay, 2 and a half million

is the net worth. And so it's not the actual number, but if you invested 2.5 million in a decent growth stock mutual fund, you would make $250,000 a year.

And then the and not touch the 2.5 million. Okay. Okay. Now, all of that's not invested because some of this is the paid for home. >> It's part of the net worth. So, that's not that's not the real number. But the point is, you're not utilizing >> in this math the income off of the nest

egg that you've so diligently built. And so, start taking some income off of your nest egg that you've so diligently built. And you don't have to take the you don't touch the nest egg. Just take some of the income off of it. Have it invested decently in good mutual funds.

And then whatever they make, throw that in the pot. And you know, then $3,000 a

month just becomes kind of cute that your wife is making. That's just kind of cute. It's unrealistic. So, no, you do not need to act like college kids. And no, you don't need to go gazelle intents. No, you're just fine. You're fine. You got plenty of money and you're making plenty of money. So, >> well, yeah. I mean, if your expenses are 8,500 and you're making 20 20 a month,

you're fine. Like, you're fine.

>> Yeah. Hello. Yeah. and you know he's not going to quit. Uh he said we're bringing home 14, she's making three, he's making 11. He's going to cut back his hours.

They're probably still going to be at 8,500. >> Yeah. If not more >> income without touching the nest egg.

That's right. Without taking the income off the nest egg. So yeah, you got got plenty of room. >> You don't need to go gazelle intense.

Fine. >> You have uh transitioned, sir, from the

acquisition mode to the enjoyment mode.

You've been building the nest egg. Now it's time for breakfast.

Crack the nest egg and begin eating, sir. >> Oh, I was like, where's the >> What's the breakfast? Well, we got to do something with these eggs, right? Got to do something with the eggs.

The golden eggs from the golden goose. That's right. The goose is The goose is big, fat, and sassy. Let's get some of the eggs.

Okay. >> Enjoy. Enjoy. >> Let's ride the eggs out.

>> Good job, Greg. >> Yeah. You didn't call me up with um no money, and I'm trying to retire because I deserve to cuz I'm old. No, that was not what you called and said.

proud of you. Very well done. Jackie's in Kansas City. Hey, Jackie. How can we help? >> Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, I'm calling because I'm preparing for a divorce after 20 years as a stay-at-home mom, >> and I need some clarity on how to navigate the finances, particularly with the house and asset division.

>> Wow. I'm >> sorry. What happened? Um, my husband has

a sex addiction and it's been chronically unfaithful to me. I've tried to reconcile multiple times and this most recent time I'm I'm done.

>> Wow. >> So, I'm sorry, Jackie.

>> That's awful. How old are the kiddos?

>> I've got 19, 16, 14, and 10. All boys.

>> Wow. All right. And um what does he

make? He makes about 220 a year.

>> And um what is how much debt do you all

have? >> Just 11,000 on his truck which he's planning to keep. My van is paid for.

>> What about the house?

>> Um the house is approximately worth 550,000.

We owe 143,000 and the payment is 1,800 a month with 2

and a4%.

>> Okay. Mhm. >> And um >> what does he have in a 401k?

>> Um we have $160,000

in investments and between two Roth IAS

we have $270,000.

>> Okay.

So 400 grand. Okay. 430. Okay.

>> Mhm. [sighs] [panting] >> So So my big question Dave is I don't have any income. So even assuming the mortgage would be difficult. I'm in grad school to become a counselor. And I don't have a a sense of what alimony might be, but child support is around $1,800 to $2,000 a month. And so qualifying for a mortgage is >> So how far before you finish your degree? >> Uh two and a half years still.

>> Okay. All right. Well, uh, apparently

you've not been talking to an attorney yet. >> Not yet. I've decided, but I before I go an attorney and >> Well, the attorney is going to tell you better than I can in your state, what your state law is going to afford you >> on this. Um, >> so,

and of course, it's also what you guys can mediate as well. So, a friend of mine that that used to do divorce counseling says divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction. So, this now is despite all of the pain, the anger, the angst, uh the worry, despite

all of the heartbreak, this is now a math problem.

>> Mhm. Yeah. Sadly, that's why I was calling. Yeah. Cuz I think if I keep the house that I'll be cash poor equity.

>> Yeah. if he if he took this other stuff and you took the equity in the house, that'd be close to an even swap. And then he pays child support and alimony.

>> That would not be unusual, but I'm not going to recommend that.

>> Okay. >> Um so what I what we found is this. Um

doing this for a long long time.

Mom wants to mama bear wants to hold on to the house cuz the kids have been through enough and making them move and change schools is just too much because they feel like that's the last straw.

like the kids can't they they're not resilient enough to make it through that actually they are >> because their their world's already upside down. The house and school is a minor part of their world really.

>> But in Mama Bear's mind, it often feels like it's a bigger part than it actually is. And so she takes the house that she can't afford to to protect the children

from the last little bit of pain that she can and um and it becomes a curse

rather than a blessing. And so that's what I don't want to do here. Yours is not super bad because you don't owe that much on it, >> right? >> And so that makes it and it's not super expensive. >> Yeah. 1,800 bucks. Yeah.

>> So, um, you know, if you could end up

with a chunk of money and the house and,

you know, like not an even split. In other words, >> um, you know, you might could make it.

Uh otherwise, you're going to think about if you're going to try to keep the house, you're going to have to think about a career while you're finishing up your counseling.

>> Yes. Yeah, that was part of the the question mark. I'm willing to work during grad school, but when I get to my internship, I'll be working 30 35 to 40

hours a week just in unpaid internship.

>> And how long is that for? Is that a semester long? >> That'll be a full year. And so taking an additional 30-ish hours. >> A lot of those though are paid. A lot of those are paid gigs.

>> Yeah. this particular program, the school that I'm in, that's an unpaid position. >> Well, let's think about a different way of doing that then. >> Mhm. Okay. >> Um because if you could get paid to be an intern, that changes the equation too a little for you. It doesn't doesn't change the whole thing, but it helps make the adjustments. So, yeah, you've got to you you don't let the illusion

that the house is providing more for the children than it actually is put you in a position that it damages the next decade of their life. and yours.

>> Right. Right. >> So, cut it loose if you have to, >> but I don't know what you're going to be able to come out of this with. And I think >> and an $1,800 mortgage though, you know, if you think about it's not bad. Renting and stuff could be around the I don't know. There's a part of me that you may be paying that regardless.

>> But you got to eat. >> Yeah. >> And you got to pay lights and insurance and you got no money coming in. So, we got to have some money coming in and that's what that's how we balance this out. So, >> and the alimony could help if there's any of that child support. Yeah.

>> 20 years. Yeah. It's probably depend on the state. I don't know.

>> I'm sorry, Jackie.

[music]

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>> Hey Dave, how are you? How's it going? >> Better not deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, in a nutshell, um early

40s, um about 190 in debt and I think

it's accumulating still.

um recently lost my job um in in uh

beginning of October and um you know just trying to determine

if you know with this mountain of debt if bankruptcy is the route as opposed to

um you know going deeper in debt while waiting for additional forms of income.

>> Why would you go in to debt while waiting on additional forms of income?

Why don't you just go get something to do right now? Like it's Christmas time, lift boxes for FedEx and eat.

>> Oh, a thousand%. If they were to call me tomorrow based off the application that was submitted last week, I would do it.

Um, but as it stands as today, uh, there's no no uh retail part-time

temporary roles calling back at the moment.

>> That's strange.

Okay. >> Um, >> what's the 190 in debt?

What does it consist of?

>> Yeah. So, it's about 140 150 in uh in

student loans.

Uh about 20 in credit card debt and

about 30 from a personal loan.

>> Okay. Bad news for you.

>> Yeah. Student loans aren't bankruptible.

>> So, it would it would only Yeah. So, 50 of that would only >> Yeah. >> be wiped away in a bankruptcy.

>> And that's not that you can probably clear that out. Is that all that stuff?

the 50 behind. Are you behind on all of it?

>> Yes, I'm current but still a little bit

uh the credit card usage was high >> and so um I did kind of take heed to

some of the advice that I heard a while back on your show which was to put you know the higherend uh amounts on autopay for minimal payments just to keep it active while trying to chop away at the smaller ones.

And I was doing that for a while, but then um I had a a series of uh job

losses. So, prior to the the job that was uh I was just laid off from in October. >> What were you laid off from in October?

>> I was a a fundraiser. So, a director of development for a non forprofit.

>> Why were you laid off?

uh there was a leadership change and so the the board of directors made some

decisions on uh leadership roles.

>> Okay. And why did you lose the other jobs >> again laid off? So this was my my traditional career background is in the advertising industry. >> Mhm. Um, and you know, it's high

turnover in that high service turnover in that industry and and my client didn't renew with the agency and so the agency couldn't afford to keep me on salary.

>> Are you married?

>> No, but I am engaged with uh two children. >> Okay. Okay. >> One and five. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> Now, bankruptcy doesn't solve your problem. You have a career crisis. You don't have a debt crisis.

you got a lot of debt, but the debt is not what's killing you. It's that you have no income.

>> Correct. >> And so, um, you know, I don't want to treat the wrong problem.

Um, the the real problem, the core problem is income and consistent income.

And at the moment, any income and uh

that's your core issue. So, that's what I want to spend all of my calories on.

And if you just took all of the debt payments and threw them in the trash and didn't pay them for two months, that's not the end of the world. You can you can get you can get right back up once you start making some money again. What were you making at the last gig?

>> Uh 100,000.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> And and the gig prior to that was 165.

>> Yeah. So I I I was thinking you were a six-f figureure guy just listening to you. So um I think you will be again.

Uh, I just don't know when and I don't know what. And at this moment, it feels scary and uncertain. But no, you're not

bankrupt. You're just unemployed.

>> Yes, sir. >> And so, we got to solve that. And and by the way, the like Rachel said, the the bulk of your debt is not bankruptible anyway. And if you can make $150,000 a year, it'd be silly to file bankruptcy on 50 grand.

Cuz that that's the essence of what you'd be doing. follow me.

>> Yeah, I do. I do. I appreciate that.

>> Yeah. So, tell you what, hang on. I'm going to um I'm going to connect you with Ken Coleman's uh book uh finding the work you're wired to do and the proximity principle book uh which is a really good book on landing a position of some kind. And um

uh the best thing you can do is what you've been trying to do it sounds like legitimately and I do believe you is to land something >> immediately just to get your hand to something instead of sitting and worrying. >> Yeah. And with the job market even listening to Ken the you know just putting in applications online really isn't going far these days. So it's it is going in person finding someone that

works somewhere that knows an open position. So, like there's some strategy because it is the job market's tough these days. I mean, I mean, you know, the retail side, I'm not sure, but when it comes to like a full-on career like what you're talking about, um, it takes more than just an application online or finding, you know, a LinkedIn thing.

>> Yeah. And I'm not even sure to get on with FedEx that just filling out the applications enough. I think I'm going to bother some people over there >> and try to get over to, you know, I'm ready to start today. You ready to start? Let's go. What do you got to do?

I mean, that they they probably need somebody today. I mean, it's Black Friday. It's that, you know, everything's moving again. So, retail's not running slow. Sales are not bad. So,

um I I'm, you know, I I don't know where they're all going, but sales are not bad. So, interesting. Very interesting.

Josh is in Ohio. Hey, Josh. How are you

>> doing? Good. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I'm going to uh receive $400,000

roughly next summer from my dad's farm being sold. I want to treat this money with wisdom and not blow it. What's the best way to use a lump sum like this to build stability, invest wisely, and secure my future.

>> Good for you. >> Passed away back in 2019.

>> I'm sorry. >> Kind of think ahead.

>> How much debt do you have, Josh?

I have $18,000 between uh two cars, uh credit card, and student loans.

>> Mhm. >> And then I have I have multiple medical bills. I'm not exactly sure what those equal, but I guess around uh 20,000.

>> Okay. So 40,000 clears your debts,

>> right? Yes. >> Okay. Do you owe you you own a home?

No, we rent. >> Okay. All right. >> How old are you, Josh?

>> 30. >> What do you make?

>> Uh, rough roughly 77,000 a year. I drive

trucks, so it's a little different each year. >> Okay. So, what I would do is pay off

your debts, build an emergency fund, and I would set the rest of it aside in a mutual fund and forget that you have it.

Get with a Ramsey Smart Investor Pro.

And, uh, it sounds like you need about 50,000 out of this. So, put about 350 in a mutual fund and just let it sit there and pretend like you don't have it and let it sit there and grow a little bit and you keep working with no debt payments. I want you to start saving money and no debt payments. I want you to get on a on a a detailed written budget with your wife and use this opportunity to change you, not the have

the money change everything. It's not enough money to fix your life. It's a lot of money. It's more than you've ever seen, but it's not enough to make it where you don't have to do anything. You got to get you got to be smart from this point forward. As you said, wise >> and so I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. And I want you guys to work that system.

>> Yeah. Without the 400. And I think that's really important because, you know, used to credit cards, car payments, like that's the norm. And when you just wipe it out, there's no emotional sacrifice at that point, right? >> So, you guys have to have a standard of living that you can live on with your income. And you guys feel good about creating these new money habits.

>> We're not borrowing money anymore.

>> Yep. And then if you choose to use that money, you know, three years down the road to buy a house or to use it for your life, you have [music] good money habits in place. So working on your money habits is going to be really, really important. Gosh.

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Heat.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds [music] Credit Union studio.

Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host. Open phones at 888255225.

Elizabeth is in Arkansas. Hi, Elizabeth.

How are you?

>> Hey Dave and Rachel. >> Hey, what's up?

Okay. So, I am um an newly single mother

of seven children um in the process of

getting a divorce and I do not make enough money to survive and I need to know what to do next.

>> My gosh. Where are you guys in the divorce process?

>> We have only just had one hearing about

custody. Um >> is he writing >> that? It's still >> No. Why? >> I have not received a dime. >> Why? >> Because he doesn't think that he should.

>> It's not up to him. It's up to your attorney to get off his butt and talk to the judge about sending the woman with seven children some money.

>> Yeah. Well, right now we're having the kids half and half a week. I get him a

week. >> Yeah. >> He needs to be writing checks to you in

any state.

>> Yeah. Was your attorney a wuss or not smart? >> I'm I'm beginning to wonder,

>> but I I don't have the funds to get anyone else at this point. So, >> Oh, you you need to pick up the phone and chew their ass.

>> Yeah. >> Can you say that? >> I just said that. I'm I [laughter] mean, I got a lady with seven children that's not getting supported by her dead beat soon to be ex attorney sitting on her thumb.

I can't think of anything that makes me matter than attorneys who sit on their thumbs.

>> Yeah. And so, um, currently I have,

um, I have $6,550

in student loans. Um, that's what I I was able to get that. I I graduated this summer with an EMT um license and um, I

got that so I could move out because I had no access. >> How old are your children? >> Um 8 to 15. Uh two sets of twins.

>> When are you starting the EMT gig?

>> Well, there is a possible opening in January, but again because of the situation with the kids. Um it's going

to be really difficult for me to get a like a vanilla EMT job. Um because it's

usually 48 on 96 off and I don't I want

I have the kids I have to you know >> I think it's very doable >> the 48 you're on they're on him

>> right but again he's he's been very um

>> I don't care what he wants.

>> You seem to think he has control of this. He has no control. There are these neat things called laws.

>> Mhm. when your attorney actually bows up and acts like an attorney.

>> Mhm. >> No, definitely a listen, not unusual at

all for one of the spouses in a divorce

that has child has co-are custody with their children to be working for the fire department or the EMT and have 48 on, 96 off. That's a fairly normal rhythm. And to put the child care the ch the child custody arrangement to fit that rhythm is not unusual at all. is done every day in divorce courts in America.

>> Okay. All right.

>> When somebody has an attorney.

>> Yeah. >> God. Okay. Um, so yeah. So this guy

this guy is a your your soontobe ex is a

control freak overbearing bully, isn't he?

>> Yeah. >> And has been for how long?

>> Um, 17 of our 18 years.

>> Okay. cuz you twice in the conversation already gave him way more power than he actually has.

>> Yeah. >> And two and two [laughter] times I corrected you on it. You following me?

>> He [clears throat] he really doesn't have I mean this is a Yeah. This guy's um he's so neutered he doesn't even know it. >> He's got seven freaking children. The

judge is going to mop the floor with him.

Assuming your attorney actually shows up for work.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, yeah, this is >> Elizabeth, do you have the ability to get someone else walking in front of a judge?

>> Yeah. >> I'm sorry, Rachel, what was that?

>> Do you have the ability to find someone new if you needed legal counsel that's different for your sake?

>> I don't think so. Um, I actually had to borrow money from my daughter to be able to pay the retainer. Um, and I I'm I'm

currently making $24 weekly. Um,

>> doing what? >> Just inh [clears throat] home care. I do

inhome care and then I when I can I do substitute teaching.

>> Um, and that pays $91 a day.

>> And he's not taking care of the kids at home. He's not doing any of the child custody right now at all.

>> Well, he's he's got the kids every other week with the exception of one of my oldest twins. Um, she's at my house every week. >> Okay. Um, so >> so you could be working that entire week for a lot more than 204, >> right? >> And you need to be, >> but the problem is is the reason that my

daughter is at our house is because um she she was suicidal and um going to her

dad's was making it worse.

>> Oh, I can imagine. Can imagine. Is she not is she not safe at your house?

>> Yes. >> Okay, then go work the week that she the week that he's the rest of the kids are gone. you go to work that week.

>> Yeah, >> you got to you got to create some >> money is she's she is um not supposed to

be left alone um yet. Um so that's

that's been a challenge with that. But I

I have been working in while they're at >> You have family in the area?

>> They're over an hour away.

>> Mhm. >> Um my mother is a is a widow. Um, she

she happened to work to survive herself >> and then I have siblings, but basically everybody is just working paycheck to paycheck. And I don't I don't want to be that anymore.

>> Well, you are right now. You're just trying to eat.

>> So Bubba needs to start Bubba needs to start writing some checks to you. You need to get some money on the weeks that the kids are gone. And if she needs to go stay with her grandmother that week so somebody's watching the the uh teenager, that's cool, >> right? Uh she wouldn't be able. She's in school though and um >> not right now.

>> She's in Christmas right now. >> Well, >> well yeah, that's in a week and a half

um Christmas break.

>> Yeah. So I mean you've got to create some income. $24. I don't know how what are you eating on?

>> We we did qualify for food stamps and so

that's food stamps is taking care of the food. Um, uh, some friends from church

stepped up and helped out with some stuff that has helped cover gas because I'm driving the kids back and forth to their school.

>> And what and what's he saying? Your husband, your ex, soon to be ex.

>> He's blaming me for everything. >> Yeah. So, um, listen, I want you to hang up and I want you to call your attorney and say, "If I don't start getting some checks immediately out of this guy to feed these seven children, we're over here on freaking food stamps and he has seven children. He's paying nothing.

You're not doing your job." >> Yeah. Okay. >> Right now. >> All right. Do your job. >> Beth, I'm sorry. And hey, hold on the line. Christian's going to pick up. We have Aldi gift cards, Elizabeth. They're one of our sponsors, and so we'll hook you up with some of those. Yeah, we'll get you some groceries going, kiddo.

>> Oh, I'm so sorry, >> man. God, that pisses me off.

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>> [music]

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>> I still don't understand this. We have Cyber Monday week. How is a Monday a week? I'm so confused. >> Shopping week. >> Cyber Monday week deals aren't over yet.

We've extended the sale. It's longer than a week. >> We love it. [laughter] >> Sales $12 hardcover books, $12 assessments, $12 questions for humans decks, and $6.99 for audiobooks and ebooks. This does end at the end of the week, [laughter] Sunday 127. Ramseysolutions.com/store

or click the link in the description. Boys and girls, Daytona Beach is on the line. Jana is calling. Hi, Jana. How are you? >> Hi, Dave and Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

So, uh, my question is is my I'm 46, my

husband is 43 and we have nothing saved

for retirement and um we don't own a

house. Uh, well, correction, we own a

house, but it's a rental right now. Um,

and we're thinking of selling it. Um,

and then my husband has about 100,000 in a TSP. Other than that, we have nothing saved and I'm a little nervous.

>> Well, I wouldn't be panicked, but I would be concerned.

>> Okay. Cuz if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. I'd be concerned about that. But 46, I mean, you you know, you got 20 years, you'll be okay. >> If you get your crap together, are you going to do it?

>> Absolutely. >> So, what's the house? I don't understand. You have a rental house, but you don't live in it.

>> Correct. Um, it was >> Where do you live? >> part of We live in Daytona Beach.

>> I know. But I mean, where do you What's your house?

>> So, we are renting. >> Why? >> Um, because my husband had a job relocation.

>> Oh, okay. >> To Daytona Beach.

>> Where's the rental house? >> Why don't Why didn't you sell the other house?

Um, my husband has some sentimental

issues. It was his first house that he ever bought and he just didn't want to get rid of it. Um, it actually was a >> He should get rid of that and his old girlfriend's phone number both.

Seriously, >> get rid of the house. That's stupid.

There's a house I bought in college. I love the house. Oh, come on. Get rid of the house. It's not a blessing to your family. >> How much could you get for >> You're renting now because you own a rental property, >> right? Yeah. Sell it. What's it worth?

>> It's uh we just had an appraisal done on it. Um it's 313.

>> And what do you owe on it?

>> 200. >> Great. Sell it. Buy you a house in Daytona Beach. 15-year fix where the payment's no more than a fourth year takehome pay. Have you got other debt?

[snorts] >> Um yeah. So we're on baby step two right now. We're finishing it this month.

>> Great. >> Good. So, if you finish baby step two and you sell this house and you buy a house with that money and then you have an emergency fund, you're on to baby step four, right?

>> Right. >> Boom. I love this. And what's your household income?

>> Um, together, well, my my income kind of fluctuates a little bit.

>> I mean, what do you make a year? What do you make a year?

>> Uh, about 165 to 185.

>> Okay. If you say 15% from 46 to 66 of

one of $150,000, you're going to be multi-millionaires,

>> Jana. >> Okay. [laughter] >> If you say 15% in baby step four, you said you knew what baby step two is. You know what baby step four is, right?

>> Which is around 30,000 a year.

>> 30,000 a year for the next 20 years.

You're going to be multi-millionaires.

Okay.

>> Pretty cool. Pretty cool. >> I'm going to get >> You want to put it in there? >> Yeah, I think we should. >> Let's get the exact number. But I mean, >> can't I can't do 40 years in my head, but the I'm not It's probably Okay, I'll give you my guess. Three and a half million. >> Okay. You're I'm going to do 43 because that's you, Janna. Right. >> No, she's 46.

>> No, she's 43. >> I'm 46. >> Oh, who's 43? >> I'm 46. My husband >> to to 66. So, we're going to do 40.

Let's do 40 years at uh at

>> 3,000 a month. >> 2500 a month. It's 30,000. 2500 a month.

See what you get. >> We're going to go 12%. People are going to get mad about that, but we're sorry.

4.1 million. Ah, >> 3.5 wasn't bad. It's a good guess, Dave.

>> Did you get that though, Jana?

>> It's pretty good. >> So, our leftover income is right now, and that's once we're done in this month, will be $7,415.72.

So, we only need um like $4,000 to live

on. >> You need $2,500 a month going into retirement in baby step four. Baby step five is you need to save some towards kids college. Baby step six is you need to pay off this house I told you to go buy. >> And that is working till 67, by the way.

That was the that was the number in the investment calculator. But all that to say, >> you're going to have three and a half to $4 million. You guys have got to you have to start making some grown-up moves and keeping a house for sentimental value >> is not one of them. >> You know what I mean? Like you you guys kind of have to face reality too, right, Jana? I mean like >> it's a house. He needs to

>> to feel that and see that. >> Yeah. Dump it and you guys get you a house bought and start working this plan. It's going to work.

>> You're doing great. >> It's going to work.

>> And you know what's interesting? Let's go back to the beginning of this call.

Did I not hear a little bit of panic and emotion in your voice that you were going to retire on Alpo?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I'm [snorts] sitting here going, "No, don't need to panic. >> Are you emotional? What what's going on?" I mean that I'm just I'm frustrated because up until this point we've been

paying $75,000 a month for my mom to be in an assisted living and she blew her entire retirement and sent $500,000 across seas to a

Nigerian prince of some sort.

>> Oh my gosh. And so I am sitting here

supporting her and it's frustrating to me and then I look at her and I look at me in the mirror and I'm like, you're going to be just like her and not >> you're not, Jana. No, you're not.

>> And why would you be like her? You just figured out that's a dumb idea. >> You're not going to send half a million dollars >> to a Nigerian [laughter] princess.

>> Jana, say that to yourself. I am not going to to send half a million dollars.

You know, you're not making the same decisions your mom made.

already you guys are already working your way out of debt. You're already you're already gaining financial grounds. >> Let me tell you what normally happens where a family is dysfunctional with money. Okay. The kid goes the other way too far. Not the same way.

>> Yeah. >> Very few people follow their in their in their broke parents' footsteps. They go the other direction and often times too far where it's dysfunctional. And that's in Rachel's book, Know Yourself, >> which hasn't really happened for.

It's not like they're oversavers. They're not. You know what I mean? So, like >> a lot of people are if they grow up and their parents are dysfunctional so they they don't heal from that and they go bananas.

>> In Jan Yeah. And in Jana's case, >> yeah, Jana, all you got to do is just follow the baby steps.

>> Even if it was half of what we just pulled out, that's $2 million at retirement. >> You're you're fine.

>> You guys are going to be great. You really are. You got to make some moves.

>> Stay away from the Nigerian prince.

>> Yeah. Oh, no. [laughter] Man, they pray on the elderly, though.

I'm not kidding you. That is like the scam of the century.

>> That's been around since before the internet. >> No, it was like the forward the forward the forward. >> We used to get it in the mail snail mail. I used to get the Nigerian prince offer in the mail snail mail before there was email before there was an internet. >> And the worst is the dating catfish stuff happening of people in a relationship with someone. >> I never understood why anybody wanted to date a catfish. I'm so confused.

>> Oh my gosh. [laughter]

>> Such a boomer, >> man. And we've get some interesting ones on here. Jade SM sniffed one out the other day on the air. >> Yeah. That she had never even met the guy, right? The >> Yeah, the government was getting ready to send her 401k to this dude and put it in stupid Bitcoin and then we're like, "So, how many times have you all actually Oh, I've never actually met him." I'm like, "Oh, catfish. CATFISH." OH, WOW. WOW. WOW. OH, MAN.

>> So bad. [laughter] >> Oh man. >> You're not her, Jana.

>> Jana, you're going to be great. You really are. Listen, if your family puts the fun in dysfunction, boys and girls, it just means you don't have to be that.

That's all it means. You don't have to you don't have to follow it. >> I know it's scary. That that is that's terrifying. It's >> and just the burden that you're going to be for your kid, right? Like you feel all of that. And so because of that, that's part of the motivation to change.

So you can change your family tree.

You're different. You're a different branch. You're creating something completely new for your kids. And it's beautiful. We're going to work this time. You have time. the passion that you have to not be that. Use that passion to work this system and then you won't be that. It's that simple.

>> It really is.

Rob is in Syracuse. Hey Rob, how are you? >> I'm good, thanks. >> Good. How can we help?

>> I was just uh I I I was listening to you on Sage Steel and I didn't realize that you had you had a bankruptcy in your past and it got me thinking, do you think about the same things I do? And uh it was 20 years ago. We were a young couple. >> Mhm.

And uh I just think about the the the debt that was discharged and I keep a list and I just wonder if you ever think about that [laughter] about whether because I know I'm never going to pay it back because they're never going to take it, >> but I just was wondering if it was something that you or or anybody else thinks about. Yeah, people think about it because they're people of honor and uh the people of honor signed a debt and they know they owed it and the law says according to bankruptcy that you don't owe it anymore but your heart still is um tender to that >> and so all that means is you're a good person now obsessing about it and continuing to worry about it that's u I wouldn't do that.

I I instead would just accept grace, >> move on.

about the time I, you know, when I was 16 years old, I got the car keys the first night. I got my driver's license. I went to the pizza, my dad's pickup, and the first thing I did is I backed into a guy's Corvette.

Now, I had to pay for that and fix it obviously, and my dad did. Nobody was happy. Not the Corvette guy, not my dad, not me. Nobody was happy in the equation. But and but I I don't think

about that all the time. It's an interesting scar because it was really traumatic the first night you got your license, right? But >> Oh, yeah. >> But it's also, you know, a 16-year-old kid, you know, everybody makes mistakes.

I just happen to do it with a pickup and a Corvette, but um, you know, move on, Dave. Don't don't sit don't sit up at night and worry about that. So, you don't want to take it too far, but to have a tender heart towards it is just means you're a good person. In my case, mine manifested itself with the bankruptcy stuff years later. Uh about 10 years after we filed bankruptcy, we were making substantial money again.

And um I woke up in the middle of the night with a very vivid dream. And I felt very very sure God was telling me to go back and pay it back. Um and I

told my wife and she said, "Absolutely not. Those people pissed all over us.

We're not giving them a dime." Cuz they man, we had some jerks we dealt with. We had some people that were did all kinds of illegal stuff, all kinds of stuff. It was our fault. We caused it, but man, it was She's like, "No way." And I'm like, "Yeah way. I'm pretty sure this was God and I'm pretty sure we need to do this." No, we're not doing that. So, two years went by and I finally we were by then

we're making even more money and the amount of the bankruptcy was fairly small in comparison. And I'm like, "Sharon, we're supposed to do this. I I I really want to go back and do this. I've got the money." And she said, "No." We actually sat down and met with our pastor in a marriage counseling session over it cuz we were arguing about it and couldn't get a resolution. And I was very sure. Um, and so we ended up she

she acquiesced and I said, "Look, we spend more than this on other stuff.

It's what I think we're supposed to do. It's not," she says, "It's not the money, it's the principle." I know, but we need to do it. So anyway, she finally went along with it and we did go back and it was a real pain 12 13 years after the bankruptcy to get some banker who it's not his money. They

don't have a way to put it on the books cuz it's off the books.

>> And we had it was a it was actually a lot of work >> to get to get these people to take money. It was crazy. >> That's what I was figuring. Yes. That's that's what I was thinking about too is like who's going to who's going to >> I mean if you found an individual that was on there like you know somebody like that they're like oh yeah I'll take the money and I had a few of those. Uh but

uh then one guy's like oh don't worry about it. I'm like yeah I'm worried about it. I need to do this and he's like okay and send me a check. So I did.

And then most people were that way but then some of these banks they were just morons. But the banks are >> so funny. >> They're morons. So, but I also don't tell that story very often, Rob, because it sounds like a humble brag for one thing. And the other thing is I don't want to put it forth as a principle that I believe that everyone should go back.

>> I don't think everyone should go back and do that. I think I was told to and it's probably, it's easy to surmise I was told to because I'm in this position and so I needed to be I needed to have a little bit, you know, be a little bit more above reproach, so to speak. But even then, I don't tell people. And so I'm often, you know, the haters on the internet are like, "Dave Ramsey filed bankruptcy.

He's a he's a thief. He stole the money." And they don't even know I went back and paid it. And I and I don't go into the comment section and go, "Yes, I did." You know, just let it go. Screw it.

Actually, well, I really I'm I'm glad I heard the story, but I really wanted to let you know that it was a lot of your principles when I'm reading when I back 20 some years ago after filing bankruptcy that got me back on track.

>> Good. >> Good. Praise God. That's why we're here, man. Hey, that's a great question. It's a good discussion. >> And I don't know if I would keep a list anymore. He said he keeps a list of it.

you know, unless you unless you feel >> some kind of spiritual direction or

>> um >> cuz honestly, I was not thinking about it. >> Mhm. >> And I just, you know, what 10 times in your life, you have a dream that's that vivid that wakes you up and you can't go back to sleep. And I'm sitting at my computer and I wrote down the details of the dream.

I I've got it in a file in a in an email to myself or in a word document to myself cuz it was that vivid. And I that doesn't happen that often. I I dream every night and I don't have any idea what it is, right? you know, right?

>> But um but so I really felt like that's what it was. But I'm not sure. I'll know when I get to heaven for sure. But >> um and that's not why I'll get to heaven either, by the way.

>> but the prompting and leading that was something bigger than you to do something. And that could be anything in life. And this happened to be this.

>> Yeah. >> Um and for Yeah. And that's not for everyone's story to your point.

>> But it's very interesting with bankruptcy that on the one end of the spectrum there are people that are very flippant about it. It's like, ah, >> I'll just file bankruptcy. >> I'll just file bankruptcy. I don't know. They have they they feel no obligation.

Yeah. And on the other end of the spectrum, you got Rob still keeping a list >> 20 years later. >> 20 years later. So, yeah, I'd probably either pay it back or burn the list.

>> Mhm. >> You need to get it you need to get off your plate. >> One side or the other. >> Get off your plate and quit quit quit having it as hanging back there in the back of your head.

Let's move on to something else. And I And I'm perfectly fi fine with you walking in grace and just let it go. perfectly fine with that. Again, I'm not going to take my story and impugn that as a pherocetical principle on everyone else because I don't think that's what I was getting.

I don't that was not the the sense I had from it.

Madeline is in Chicago. Hey Meline, what's up?

>> Hi. >> Hey, how can I help?

Uh, so I just graduated in May from college and my student loan payments will start up in January. It's $22,000

in debt and then I also have $2500 in

credit card debt. >> Mhm. >> Um, so my question with the loans is they all have different interest rates, subsidized versus unsubsidized, uh, and just the best way to go about paying those effectively.

>> How many do you have?

It's 10 different loans.

>> Wow. Lots of little ones. Okay.

>> So, a couple of 2,000 here and [clears throat] there. >> List them smallest to largest.

>> Okay. >> Pay minimum payments on everything except the little one and attack the little one as fast as you can.

>> Throw that credit card debt in there, too. Is the credit cards multiple credit cards? >> Just one credit card. >> Okay. Yeah. So, put the $2,500 credit card. >> You probably have some student loans smaller than that.

Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you're going to do those first. You're going to cut up the credit card, by the way. Quit using a stupid thing.

>> I'm not kidding. That wasn't funny.

[laughter] I cut it.

>> Maline, are you working?

>> Yeah, I am. I have a part-time remote job and then I also work as a waitress.

>> Okay. How much do you bring in a month?

>> Uh, monthly I'm bringing in about

$5,000. >> Good. Wow. Good for you. And if you can live on nothing and drop three grand on that, you're going to be done in no time. You'll be done by next Christmas.

>> Awesome. >> Yeah. I mean, you got 20 $25,000.

So, $2,000 a month, you're done by Christmas next year.

>> And that that includes if you don't get a full-time job making more, you know.

>> What's your degree in? >> Yeah, that would be my goal. Marketing.

>> Oh, good. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You'll get a better job than that. Yeah. Go get a big job. Knock it out even before that. But I want you done by Christmas. Say, "Christmas is my date." Say it out loud.

>> Christmas is my date. >> All right. Knock it out, kiddo. You got this. >> Hang on. We're going to send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover book to show you how to do it.

Our

scripture of the day, Romans 15:4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, [music] so that

through the endurance taught in the scriptures and the encouragement they provide, we might have hope.

Jim Ran said, "Formal education will make you a living. Self education will make you a fortune." Sam is in Raleigh,

North Carolina. Hey Sam, how are you?

>> Hey, I'm actually in Wilson, North Carolina. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Um, I'm newly engaged. Um, and we've had

a discussion, me and my now fiance have

had a discussion about buying a house.

Um, my grandfather's house, he just passed away and my family thinking about selling it. They're going to keep it in the family. They're thinking about selling it for tax value. Um, I really

like the house. She's not really sure about the location. And that was my

first question. And the other question would be, how much money do I need to save to buy a house?

>> Okay. Uh, how old are you, Sam?

>> I am I just turned 26.

>> Okay. And what do you make a year?

>> Uh, 62,000.

>> What's your fiance make a year?

>> Uh, 54. >> Cool. And, um, when will you all be getting married?

>> Um, haven't set a date. We're getting through the holidays, but probably sometime in 27.

>> Okay. All right.

And um what will your grandfather's house cost if you were to buy it?

>> Uh tax value just under $250,000, like

246 or 247, I think.

>> What do you think the thing's really worth? >> Um I looked it up on Zillow and all the other websites and it's listed for 340

to 360. So I feel like I'll be gaining

>> a little bit. Yeah.

>> And um Okay. And do you have any money?

um little to none. I mean, I've got I've

started up with Financial Peace University. I've started my nest egg

kind of adding to it every month. I've got around 27 $2,800 saved up in a um

money market account through the credit union >> and you're out of debt.

>> Um I've well I've got $4,000 worth of

debt. um paying that off. That ring

hadn't even made one payment on it yet.

Um I intend on paying that off before the end of the year.

>> This year or next?

>> This year. >> So in the next couple weeks, >> few weeks. >> Yes. >> Okay, that's good. All right. So you'll be debtree and then you'll start saving.

When are you required to close on your grandfather's house? Could you rent it for a year while you save up some money?

>> Yes, I can. That is also another option.

So right now it's okay. Now, here's the last question. What happens when you want to sell the house?

>> Um, I would sell it back to my mom or to my family. >> What if they can't buy it?

>> Um, >> do you have to sell Do you have to sell it at tax value then or do you can you sell it for full price?

>> I would sell it to them for whatever I bought it for. >> Then don't buy it. >> Yeah, it's not a good investment.

>> No, don't buy it >> because you can't make any money on it, >> right? If you buy a house for $200 or $300,000 and 10 years from now you have to sell it for $200 or $300,000. That was a bad deal.

>> All right. >> It it needs to go up in value. So no, >> unless the family can all agree, Sam, that you know by the time you want to sell it, >> you can sell it for what it's worth.

>> $10. Yeah. That you can sell it for what it's worth or you can sell it outside the family if no one wants it for what it's worth either. >> Yeah. >> It's kind of like a first right of refusal. >> I give them first right of refusal. But if they don't want to buy it for what it's worth, I mean, the thing could be worth a million dollars in a few years.

>> Yeah. And I mean, it's on family land.

We got it's 650 acres. Um, and there's a

bunch of barns there. >> You don't get 650 acres with this, though. >> No, no, no. I get an acre and then I get some barns that are actually on the farm. >> Yeah. You don't get anything. You get an acre of land and a house.

>> The rest of it is just you have access to, which by the way, if you drive over there, you'd have access to it. But anyway, you don't have to live there to have access to that, >> right? >> So, no, that's not that's not relative.

I I don't think this is a good idea cuz I think you're going to get trapped.

>> Mhm.

>> Thank you. That's how I've been kind of feeling. >> Yeah. I think your I think the family has >> your fiance has a good, you know, gut instinct about her, too.

You know, that she's she's a little bit like, uh, I don't know about the family thing and the location and all of it. When you guys buy your first house, Sam, you want it to be a win. You want it to be a fun experience.

But it puts you in a position where you guys can't make a good deal out of it for the

what they need from it and what you need from it are too far apart.

>> Yep. >> And it's not that either one's wrong or or anybody's bad or anything like that.

It's not stupid or something like that.

It's just it just doesn't fit your life.

And really I I wouldn't if I'm them. I

don't want you to be able to sell the thing later. And you know that doesn't I

mean like I've got some properties I don't want the corner of it gone.

>> You know I've got some properties I bought the corner in and I don't want to sell it again. You know that kind of thing. So no I don't I can understand that. That makes sense. But if I were you two, I think it's a lot cleaner for the two of you to for the family.

>> If [clears throat] you wanted to rent it for a year or two and while you're saving up money to buy then that would be great because the more money you put down of course the faster you can pay it off. Alyssa is in Albuquerque. Hey Alyssa. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, so just a tiny backstory is um when

I was dating my husband, who I've now been married to for 15 years, um his mother used to tell me that she was running out of money, that they were going to be poor soon because she was a trust fund um child and they were going

to run out of money. So before my husband and I got married, I asked him um you know what does this mean for us?

And he said nothing. My parents are going to take care of their finances themselves. They're going to handle it that we will not this will not impact us. Which I should have known was not true. Fast forward 15 years, his parents

are out of money. Um they own their home outright. It's a small property probably worth $500,000. And then they also have

another small piece of land in the mountains with a cabin on it that's just

a shell of a building um probably worth

$80,000.

Um but they do not receive enough income to live. They receive maybe $900 from

social security. They've never worked much. >> They are 85. My mother-in-law is 85 and

my father-in-law's um set or he's 80

about 80.

>> Um we have gone, yes, we have gone and

built them a casita on their house so they could get some rental income. Um and that brings in about $1,000 a month,

but they still are cannot live and it's

basically medical bills um and things like that. So, we have now started paying their utilities and their health insurance. >> They need they need to sell the house.

>> Exactly. This So, so I keep telling my

So, my So, I tell my husband, "What about I know you don't I know most people don't like this, but a reverse mortgage." >> No, they don't need to do a reverse mortgage. They need to sell the house.

>> They need to sell the land on the They need to sell the land in the mountain, and they need to sell the house, and they need to buy a $200,000 one-bedroom condo.

Okay. >> And that'll give them 300,000 400,000 to live off of. >> How's their health? >> Not good. >> No. Not good. >> Okay. So, it's gonna Yeah. Yeah. So, it's not like another They're not going to be a hundred probably.

>> I don't think so. I mean, I you know, who knows? Who knows? God willing, but >> Sure. >> Um, but not not while my mother-in-law's had a heart attack. She's had a mini stroke and she goes, she rides the ambulance to the emergency room once a month. Yeah. >> Thus, her medical bills continue to grow. >> Yeah. Yeah. They need to get a sweet little one-bedroom condo in an area

that's that's very nice and peaceful.

And they need to sell off all their stuff and they need to sell off the land and they need to sell off the house >> because they didn't save.

>> And no, you guys don't need to support them. Your husband needs to stop this.

>> The reason he wants to do this is because he wants to inherit this property. >> I don't want to inherit the property.

It's not that fancy. No, thank you. And you don't want a property with a reverse mortgage on it? No. That puts this hour

of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 4. A Financial Plan Only Works If It Matches Your Reality | December 25, 2025


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:52:32 |

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George Camel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So take what you learn today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform your [music] life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number is88255225LE8825-5225.

[music] All right, we're gonna get to your calls, but coming up very soon. Really fun story from my colleague here. You may know her journey. She and Sam are hubs.

paid off half a million dollars in debt. She gets you, folks. If you're in debt, she gets you. She really does.

Fun story I asked her to share. I've gotten to know her and Sam very well. And so, that's coming up. You don't want to miss that.

Those of you who are kind of on that edge today. You're going, "Can I do this?

>> You can make it." >> She's going to tell you how. It's going to be fun. But first, Jack is up in Indianapolis, Indiana. Jack, how can we

help today? >> Hey guys, uh, thank you so much for taking my call. I um I bought a RV for

60,000 um on a 15-year loan at 18%

interest.

>> Wow. Why'd you do that?

>> Um I'm realizing how bad of a decision it was. It was to live in um to save up

eventually for a house. Um, and uh I'm

realizing like the interest is um 800 a month on just interest.

>> My goodness.

>> Only 50 bucks goes to the principal and I'm realizing it'll be like 16 months before I even scratch the surface under what I borrowed. >> So, uh I was wondering because obviously

I want to get out of it now. Um, I started the the baby steps. Um, all I

had was like like a,000 personal loan,

2,000 personal loan. I had some student loans. Um, I had some credit cards, but

uh I I only made 2,000 a month when I

bought it. So, I don't even know how I got approved for it, >> right? >> But, um, >> subprime >> one one by one. And uh I got rid of

everything except for the camper. Um my income's about 4,000 a month now.

>> Okay. >> So um >> where are you living?

>> Uh um I got a job as a truck driver. So in the truck.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> Are you okay? >> You don't you don't sound very okay to me. Maybe it's just your voice, but I'm just sens.

I'm really nervous. I just >> Okay. >> Yeah. No, I'm good. >> Okay, great. >> Okay, so you've got Did I understand correctly when you said you got rid of all the other debt except this RV?

>> Yeah, everything. Um >> Okay, good. >> I did make a little mistake. I know you were supposed to save a th000 first and with [clears throat] the first thousand I put it towards the debt.

>> Um >> Okay. >> And >> but yes, I have my $1,000. Everything else is gone. >> Good. [clears throat] >> Except for this camper. >> And you still owe 60. What's it worth if you were to sell it? Uh, the dealership

offered 31. >> Oh, lordy. But what if you were to sell it private sale? Have you looked into that? >> I have it listed for 38. And um I've

been trying to call the show for a couple months now. So I owe uh 4 uh8 on

it now. >> You owe 48 on it now. And you could sell it for 31.

>> 38. I just got to list

38. >> So you're a 10. It's a $10,000 deficit

there. What keeps you from going down to a credit union or going down to a bank or getting any kind of loan >> to to to clear this out? Why don't we do

that?

>> I uh canceled my credit cards when I removed them and it brought my credit score down pretty low. >> Uhhuh. >> What about a credit union?

>> Have you gone into a bank to see? Cuz at this point, here's here's my thinking on this. My rationale is there's not a worse loan than the one you have. And this is going you're going down. You're going from $48,000 of debt to $10,000 of

debt. I'm going to take that deal every time >> even if even if the terms aren't great.

>> Well, yeah, because you're going to knock it out. You make 4,000 bucks a month. You knocked out the other debt. Why can't you knock out this $10,000 of debt very quickly?

>> That's true. Um, I I was uh cuz I was

trying to rent it as well to see if I could try to get money out of it. Um,

>> but every moment you wait, it's dropping in value because because you're in such a bad loan, right? The interest alone is $800 a month. >> So, you got time is not on your side, my friend. >> Listen, we're coming to you from the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'd call our friends at Fairwinds and say, "Hey, I was just on the show with Jade and Ken, and here's my situation, and uh I

I've made progress. Will you guys help me out?" And and and and if they can help you out, they will. And to your to

Jade's point, then if we can sell this thing and then they take over the loan for the the the minimal amount you're going to have left, you can knock that out. So, you want to get rid of this because this is a depreciating asset.

That's why she's telling you that you got to get rid of it. Mhm. I would only And for anybody listening who's like, "Jay told him to get a loan. She told him to take it out on a credit card. She told him to take a bad loan." We're going down, people. We're going from 48 down to 10. We're not going up. He's not taking a loan to go into debt. He's taking a lesser loan to get out of debt.

So, that's the difference there for anybody who's trying to clock something that's [laughter] not there.

>> Yeah. Uh, and now what is this is this truck job, what's your opportunity to make more money than the 4,000 a month?

Um well in the beginning um it was like

that's what I was getting because uh I was in training. Um I also do all the services on his trucks cuz he owns um he

owns a trucking company. So I do all the mechanic work on them >> um for side money on cash when I am uh at Indianapolis um because it is long haul. >> So as we look forward how much more additional money can you make then the 4,000 >> 4 to 6,000 a month? I'd say take home.

>> All right. And long-term, is is this a great opportunity for you to get to the six figure range?

>> Uh, it seems like it. Yeah.

>> Okay. All right. Well, what's the lesson here uh that you've learned, you know, because a lot of times we'll teach out of this. I want people to hear from you today because you're you're sitting in this calling us with a pit in your stomach. So, what's the lesson for everybody else? >> Don't get the dealership uh markups.

Don't get the warranty stuff.

>> Um, don't buy new. Like, ask someone

older than you. >> Yeah, >> you know, I haven't.

>> Yeah. Uh, it's a I'm I'm definitely not doing that anymore. >> Yeah. >> How old are you, Jack?

>> I just turned 20. >> 20 years of age. >> You learned a great lesson at a young age, my friend. >> That's awesome. >> I wish I wish it didn't cost 60,000.

>> Yeah, that's all right. But it's a good lesson to learn. Hey, no one no one gets out if let me not no one few people get

out unscathed when you when you walk into the real world right you get out of college you start your life as an adult few Jack uh get out of this without

making major mistakes that's how we learn and for you I want you to look at this don't look at it as oh my gosh my mistake I ruined my life just look at it as some research you did you did a little bit of research and you found out that buying an RV to live in or buying anything that goes down in value is not a good idea. Now you can stick that in your pocket and keep it as a knowledge base for later. >> Yeah, I love it. Makes me think of the old song.

>> What?

>> Hit the road, Jack. And don't you come back. No more. No more. No more. Hit the road, Jack. That's what he's saying to debt. >> That's good. >> Yeah. Come on. You know, sometimes I think of these old school things. Now, if Rachel were next to me, she'd have no idea what I'm talking about. >> I thought you were going to say something totally different. >> No. Hit the road, Jack. I like it. He got on the road in the 18-wheeler. He's getting after it. He's 20 years of age.

You learned his lesson. I love his lessons. He did a great job, America.

You You heard Jack. And uh he's going to be okay. He's going to do great. He's only 20 years of age. You learned a big lesson. Now he's on the road to being debtree.

[music]

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[music]

[music]

[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, America. So glad you're with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside 88825-5225 is the phone number. 88825-5225.

We go next to San Jose, California. Jeff

is there. Jeff, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, yeah, me and my fiance, we're

we're about a million dollars in debt right now. And we kind of most of it

student loan debt, but we still have a million dollars. We just don't know how to really tackle. >> Oh my goodness. >> Is this What type of degrees did you guys have? >> Yeah, >> we're we're both dentists, so I guess that's a good thing. Kind of.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I can tell you're fired up by that. [laughter] Bless your heart.

>> Yes. Are you making money? Like what are you guys making every year?

>> Uh so I what we're told when we go into

this is we'll be able to pay it off.

Don't worry. We make about

>> uh probably average 170 a year.

>> That's what you guys are actually paying yourself? >> Yes. Before taxes. Before taxes.

>> Oh my gosh. 170 gross. And And are you

separate practices?

Uh, we are currently, but we're probably

going to group in together and and just try to grow, I guess.

>> Did you say 170 each or combined? Okay.

Okay. >> 170 gross each, which that's not bad.

>> Yeah. And you're living in Okay. Well, San Jose is expensive. That's a expensive part of the country. >> What is your debt? Break it down for Jade. Let's go you first. You're the one on the phone and you're not married yet.

So, what's your debt?

Uh about let's see 450,000

right now in all student loan.

>> Okay. And no other debt.

>> Luckily we're both pretty good on that side. >> Okay. Pretty good or good?

>> Good. >> How long How [laughter] long you been How long have you been practicing?

>> Um about a year now. We just kind of We just came out of school. It's just kind of a nervous thing to be a million dollars in debt. just >> and how no listen brother this is real and I I I I oh this makes me so mad on

your behalf. Not mad at you, >> but but people are just selling this and now you're facing it. It's like staring down the barrel of a gun right now. I can feel it all over you.

>> And and well, here's the thing I'm asking about. You're only a year into this based on I don't know if they teach you any business skills. Probably not.

But >> unfortunately, they don't. >> They don't. any sense uh of of of how

big your practice is uh in in in its

first year? Are you small for first year? Are you mediumsized? Do you have any sense of that?

>> That's I would say we're probably small getting to medium hopefully by the end of this by the end of this build. So, >> do you know any dentists at all that are very successful?

>> Huh? Yes, I do.

>> Are you in contact with them on a regular basis to go, "How did you grow your business?" >> No, >> you need to be. >> I'm not. >> You need to be. I'm not kidding you.

Jay's going to give you some financial advice, but I was leading you this because let me tell you something. They don't teach you how to run a business.

They teach you how to take care of teeth.

But taking care of teeth is not enough to be a successful dentist. You have got to know how to get people in the chair.

>> Yeah, that's right. And I want you on the phone. I'm going to give you as a gift of mine, Christian, at the end of this call. I want to give him the proximity principle.

Uh it's worth a quick read. You get the audio book if you want that. We'll give you whatever version you want. But I want you to be in touch with successful dentists, and I mean successful.

And I want you telling them, I need your best advice. What would you say to me where I'm at right now about growing my business? and try to replicate this with two or three other successful dentists.

>> And the more you pay yourself, >> the easier it is to do what Jade's going to tell you. I just wanted to give you that you've got to be like a And she's got to be the same way. If you guys combine practices, this can't be like we we're married and we have to No, you both are like >> you're the most >> I don't want to say desperate dentist we've ever seen, but it's like you got to get creative in the community and be competitive so that everybody's coming to you to get their teeth cleaned.

>> Okay. Can I ask a question? And and this is both to Ken and you, Jeff. So, you you come out of dental school, you've got all the goods to be able to to practice.

Uh, I'm working for someone else, but we're working on a contract to hopefully

partner. >> Is that going to cause you to have to go into more debt? Cuz that's what I I'm trying to get a sense of what your next plan [laughter] is because I don't want you to go into more debt. >> And that's why we're trying to hold off because more debt practice. >> No, you got to do your own practice, man. I thought that's what we were talking about. You can't go into debt.

It's not worth it. >> No. Like you got to you got you got to work for someone else until you can afford to do whatever the next step is.

>> Is your income fixed though after all that big speech I gave. Is your income fixed or are you able to go recruit new patients and get some of that? >> No, not fixed. >> So you so you can benefit from hustling like I told you to do. >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. That's good news. >> That's all I was trying to get at. And I don't want you to go into any more debt until this is cleaned up because again you're what you're realizing now is true. Uh yes, you have agency over this,

but there's no guarantees and there's no guarantees at how quickly this will go.

And so going into further debt, I would not advise that. Looking at the numbers, the the hard part for me is you are in an expensive area. What are you paying?

Like what's the what's the housing situation? Are you renting? Do you own a place? What is it? >> We're going to we're going to be owners because it doesn't it almost doesn't make sense to rent because then we're just throwing that away from the math. What are you doing right now? What's the situation now? >> About 4500 a month >> for your place. Or are you guys together already? >> Together? >> You're already together. >> It'll be 4,500. Yep.

>> Okay. >> To rent. But to buy it's the same.

>> Yes. But you're going into debt to get it. You're adding more debt to your name. >> We will be.

Yes. >> And you're tied to that. like you you got to pay it and now you're adding expenses to your life as well. You can't afford to do that.

You need to be living as cheaply as possible. And if it's the same price uh per month, it's not really the same price because your complex or whatever is paying for yard and garbage and all those things. So, I don't want to add weight to you of having to replace an AC or having to replace a roof or having to do you see what I'm saying? Um so, that's or adding insurance, you know, all that stuff is really expensive.

And so I would continue to rent. You're not throwing money down the drain. You are buying yourself time until you can truly afford to buy.

>> And I'm going to throw in here, I'm going to challenge you to get a much much better rent situation. Just try.

Find a place over an old lady's garage.

I say that all the time, but I'm telling you, I don't think you should guys should be paying anywhere near 4,500 a month. Not now. You guys are so broke.

>> You need to be you almost need to be staying in a place where they're paying you. [laughter] >> Jeff, you you you're going to have to fight, Jeff. You're going to have to fight hard because the truth is you guys have got these shiny degrees. You're in a great profession where there's the potential to make a lot of money. And the people around you, probably the people that you're working with, they're coming in with their Taho and their Cadillacs and their Teslas and they get expensive salads and juices for lunch.

>> You don't do that. You eat lean cuisine >> and you drive a Ford tourist. [laughter] >> And I I would prescribe a lot I would prescribe a lot of fasting for this couple. It's the new It's the new craze.

It's a biblical principle and I think it's got some financial advantages here.

Y'all need to try fasting three days at a time. You're going to look great, [laughter] but you can't even afford to buy cold cuts.

>> Yeah, >> Carl Budding. Do you remember?

[laughter] >> I don't know. Listen, Jeeoff, I don't know if you remember when I was coming up, >> the cheapest cold cuts you could buy.

>> We're older than these these youngsters.

Okay, >> but in all seriousness, Jeeoff, listen.

Um, you have got to reduce your living expenses right now. That's one of the biggest raises that you could give yourself. So, I'd be as soon as this rental term is up or whatever's going on, I would be looking to slash those costs. I mean, big time.

>> Uh, if even if I got a driveaways at this point, I'd rather pay gas.

>> You know, y'all ride together. Uh, it's called public transportation.

>> Everything's on the table now, right Jay? >> Everything. You get you a bus pass, it's on and popping. [laughter] >> It's the truth, man. It's like, and by the way, you're brown bagging it and you're recycling the bag. [laughter] Oh yeah. >> Do you know what I mean? That thing's going to be all crinkled. >> You rinse out the ziplockc bag and you got to dry it out and use it again.

>> Yeah. Like y'all put the wa and broke. I

mean yikes. [laughter] This is the Ramsy show.

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Welcome [music] back to the Ramsay Show alongside the incomparable, fabulous Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number is8825-55225

if you want to jump in. 888255225.

Sam is up in Birmingham, Alabama. Sam, how can we help today?

Hey guys. So, I wanted to know if you would honestly recommend that I start with a $1,000 a month emergency fund and

um and why uh after kind of reading you

off some stats here.

>> So, I have a 30 I have a 30% interest

rate on a $33,000 car loan. Uh I have 9K

in back taxes owed, 5K in credit card debt, nothing. My ex-girlfriend has 50K

in credit card debt that I kind of want to help her out with. >> Your ex-girlfriend? >> And on top?

>> Uh, unfortunately. Yeah.

>> And you want to help her with the debt?

>> Yeah. Wow. >> Sorry. I just that that >> really nice guy. I'd like to know more.

>> Yeah. [laughter] >> Why are we doing this?

>> Well, you know, she's uh it was a six-year relationship. Um I lost her

last Q4. Uh I was pushing myself too

hard. finally burnt out after after uh

about 10 years of extremely hard work.

And um I just feel responsible for a lot

of that. I'm sure some of it's mine. I'm sure a good bit of it might be mine.

>> You used her card. You used her card sometimes.

>> Well, we would together, you know, like it was a um like she would help out with

like I I don't know. I think some of I think my uh car insurance for example is on the credit card >> things like this, right? >> You think so? You don't even know.

>> Listen, >> how does that change your opinion?

>> Does it change your opinion? >> I'm going to say something really controversial right now. >> Oh, I'm very excited. >> She probably rode in your car lots of times. Does she need to help you pay off your car?

[laughter] >> You know what I'm saying?

>> You pro she may, you know, your credit card debt. You may have paid for some things for her. I think I think what it

sounded like I don't know but it sound you said she got away. It sounds like you're still recovering from this.

>> He's dealing with guilt. >> You still care for her. You might feel some guilt. Obviously you still care for her but I would I would not feel any

obligation to pay 50k to an ex. Is she

asking for money?

>> Um not well not really. No.

>> Do you want to know what I think? Do you want to know what I might think as your older sister who cares for you?

>> Okay, >> this is like when you go on a date with somebody. I think this was from Seinfeld and he would leave something in her apartment on purpose so he would have a reason to come back and knock on the door. >> Brilliant move. >> Yeah, I remember. >> I feel like this is a reason for you to come back and knock on the door.

>> Yeah. Well, I love her. I mean >> Oh, >> and >> Oh, you're not you're not you're not ready to let go. If you could dedicate a song to her right now, what would you dedicate? >> Oh, great question, Sam. Take this seriously. What is it?

>> Take this. Uh, well, so listen, there's too many to count. Um, I'm writing uh I'm writing letters about every day.

>> Oh, I'm sorry.

>> Situation. Look, I know that's the biggest debt, but this 30 this 30% interest rate on this $33,000 car loan

uh is really bugging me. I didn't know what that meant when I signed the contract. I thought it meant 30% of the

uh car's value in total. I didn't know that that was like appreciating. I didn't know that that was every year it goes >> 30%. >> I thought you said 3% when you first said it. It's 30%. >> No, no, no, no. It's 30%. And it's a

it's an Italian car. Like break down.

>> I'm sick to my stomach for you, Sam. You You have to take Oh my goodness. What's the snowball? Where are we at on the snowball? Did we get there?

>> No, because your initial question, I'm sorry I got hung up on your your love situation. The initial question was, "Do I really want him to go down to $1,000 of an emergency fund?" Um, >> yeah. Is that where I start or where do I start here, guys? >> Yeah, that is where to start. So, let me just go through um the baby steps with you right quick, Sam. Um just so you see how this all fits. And how long have you been listening to the show? Are you a new listener?

>> Uh I'm a new I'm a new listener. Yeah, you guys are on uh on my YouTube shorts.

>> Okay, so you only get bits and pieces on that. Thanks for watching. But you only get bits and pieces. So the first step, this is seven baby steps for you to achieve financial peace is what we're talking about.

So you do them all of that. I'm saying you do them consecutively in order. That's the first thing. You got to do them in order.

If you jump around, it won't work and you'll be wasting your time. The first step is you get $1,000 saved. So, if you don't have any money saved, you got to go out, work, sell stuff, and get it done. If you do have money saved, you drop it down to $1,000.

next whatever money you had left over is going to go to baby step two, which is you paying off all of your debt except your mortgage. This is all the consumer debt.

Okay? And you do this using the debt snowball method. Debt snowball is we list all the debts smallest to largest.

You pay minimum payments on everything and then any extra money goes to the smallest debt. Does that make sense?

>> Yep. >> Okay. After that, now we stack up that emergency fund. 3 to 6 months of expenses is what we're looking for. You get to decide. Is it three, four, five, or six after that?

>> Wait. [clears throat] Uh so, so number three is uh three or four,000

a month in expenses.

>> Three to six months of basic living expenses. So, just for round numbers, let's say let's say your number let's say you had $5,000 worth of expenses every month. What we're saying is is that's three months is 15,000. 6 months

is 30,000. You tracking?

>> Yep. >> All right. So, that's what we mean by an emergency fund. We we give you the kind of the we say three months is a minimum.

So, that'd be 15,000 on this example.

That's what she's talking about. >> That's right. And it's it for baby step three, it's really about your basic budget. It's not three to six months of paychecks necessarily. It's what it takes to make your house go on a basic level. Okay. Baby step 3B. It's B

because it's not the case for everybody.

Is if you're looking to buy a house, now is when we start saving up a down payment for the house. Okay. After that, you go to baby step four. You could do 3B and four at the same time if you want to. You're putting 15% of your gross income into retirement funds. So that's your 401k, Roth IRA, that sort of thing.

Then after that, if you have kids, you're planning for kids, you can put an amount of your discretion towards kids college, we say a 529 or an ESA is where you would do that. And then finally, baby step six. If you have extra money in your budget, again, at your discretion, you're throwing extra money towards paying off your house early.

Most people who do that pay off their house in like 10, 12 years. So that's

And then finally, baby step seven. You just live like no one else. You give, you're a happy person, and you got no cares, right? So that's kind of the big picture. >> Cars with cash. >> Hey. Okay. >> But let Can we talk about I'm dying right now. You did such a good job. Can we talk about this man's car? >> Yeah. Tell us. >> What's the car worth, Sam? >> Paint us a picture.

>> Oh man, the car is like 21K. I bought it for a very I think Dave will appreciate this. Um, so like I'm 29. I I have a

online business and I bought an Alfa Romeo because it was the coolest car you could get under 30K.

>> Love. How much did you pay for it?

>> Yeah. So, uh, all in taxes, I had no

down payment. It was about 33,000. So, that's the loan I'm paying off. >> Okay. >> I was like, yeah, extra. >> So, it's worth 21K.

>> Yeah. Uh, I think I can get a little more for it. I think I might be able to get like 24 26 if I'm

>> I mean, you got to you I think you got to sell this car right now at 30% interest rate, Jade. I know that's extreme, but >> He said it's 3%. 3%.

>> I thought he said 30. Is it?

>> No, it's 30. It's 30.

>> You asked that twice and he said 30.

>> Oh, I t I R T1.

>> Listen, I just turned 41 in my old age.

I can't hear you. >> He's paying 30% on this car.

>> That's painful. Yeah, you got to get out today. >> Like, you got to sell it. >> Do you have any money saved?

>> No, I can get some money this month, though. I mean, the income's good.

>> Yeah, you got to find you got to find at least $10,000 so you can get out of this and get yourself a little beater car to drive around until you can save up for a better one. So, >> yeah. But is that is that you know, here's the reason I bought this car. It was the coolest car under 30k. And >> what do you make? You know, it doesn't matter how cool it is. >> What do you make? >> Well, I'm 90 $9,200 a month consistently

for two years. The last Q4, I was paying myself [music] about 14K a month.

>> Really going overboard with the whiskey and the the oyster. >> Here's what I want you to do. Listen, what a life. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to apply that 9,200 to

get out of debt. I want you to quickly save up what you can to get out of this car. Buy something cheap in cash. It's only temporary. You're going to be out of debt in a year and then you're going to save up and you're going to buy the same car in cash.

>> All right. Jade and I are going to look into some whiskey and oysters ourselves.

>> I know that's right. >> For after the show. [laughter] Uh we'll see what the order looks like, but we'll be right back. This is the Ramsay Show.

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.

[music] So glad you're with us today as we help you win with your money, win in your profession, and win with your relationships. 88825-5225.

[music] Jade, I'm a little excited about it and uh I I don't naturally celebrate these things like I should. Super excited.

I've been dreaming about a show concept for a long time and we've been working on it as a team. The team's done a great job. It's called Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman >> and it has People ask, has it replaced the Ken Coleman show? Yes, because it is a very different format. Imagine

uh you're sitting in on a deep dive

conversation with somebody who's a thought leader, someone who has done something extraordinary in their lives.

They are a man or woman of success

>> and you get to be a part of the audience and you're sitting around with us asking a question. Well, that is the format live format. We record it and then also

we have a virtual format where people can zoom in, if you will. So, we're bringing the audience >> to the front row seat. That's the concept. It's on YouTube now, uh, or wherever you get your podcast. Uh, new episode comes out every Tuesday morning.

If you want to get better personally, move up professionally, and lead effectively, those are the conversations. >> Wow. How do you how do you source your like guests? How do you pick how do you select your guests? Because you had some wonderful guests. >> Yeah. I mean, some really fun guests.

And the way it goes down is you know we're selecting people within those categories. So for instance >> people that can help experts can help out in the area of personal growth. So that would be an expert maybe on sleep or nutrition or exercise. Okay.

>> Right. And so holistic we're mixing it up. Right. And then of course we have people that are professional uh gurus that can help you on certain soft skills like we just had Charles Doohig.

We just recorded that. It'll come out soon. Pulitzer Prizewinning author of the book Super Communicators. >> Wow.

>> So, we're talking about the three types of conversation. >> So, how do we use those types of conversation to win in our profession, but also win at home? >> That's so helpful. >> And then, of course, leadership experts.

So, it's very intentional between those three buckets of content, if that makes sense. So, >> well done, Ken. >> Thank you. I'm really excited about it.

It's beautiful, by the way, if you want to check it out on YouTube. The team did a great job with the set. Looks really, really fun. So, uh, the front row seat is the name of the show.

Front row seat with Ken Coleman. You can get it on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. Let's go to Brianna who's joining us in Dallas, Texas.

>> Hi. Yes, I have a question. Uh, well, I need some advice. Um, me and my husband

are thinking about selling our home uh

because we're just drowning in debt and we just don't have any other option to try to get out of it but to sell our home. Um so

yes that's >> what is what is what has created that scenario where you don't believe you have any other options.

>> Give us some details.

>> Uh well we are just drowning in debt and

um I know y'all always sell say sell the cars and we looked into it. We owe um in

one of our cars we owe like 9,000.

>> Okay. and we we tried to see if we could

sell it, but we will be under. It's really not worth selling. It's just I guess right now we just better off paying it off. And the other one is 12,000.

And um that one as well is negative. So

we're like, okay, we might as well just try to hang on to those and try to pay those off. And everything else is loans and credit cards, student loans.

>> Go through the other ones. Go through the other amounts for us so we can get a picture of this. So, the $9,000 car, the $12,000 car, what else?

>> And then loans, like personal loans, we have like 20,000. >> Okay. >> Credit cards is around like 35 to 35 to

like 40,000. >> Okay. >> Student loans is my husband's is like 73,000. >> Okay. How much are yours?

>> I don't have any. >> Good. >> And my uh we the IRS is like 9,500.

>> Okay. And then I have medical bills that's like 3,000.

>> Okay. Okay. >> What's your combined income?

>> Uh combined income is like uh 10,500 to

like 11,000 >> per month.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And have you added up um if you don't know, it's okay. But if I were to ask you on the spot, like how much does this cost you in payments every month?

Do you know the number to that? like the debt alone is like 4,000 probably a

little bit more. >> Okay. So, you're paying 4,000 in payments. And then tell me um what's your mortgage? Tell me about the mortgage. Tell me what you owe on it. >> The mortgage the mortgage is like uh 31

3100. >> Okay. And that's what you're paying per

month. But tell me how much you bought the house for.

>> The house we bought it for 386.

And what do you what's it worth >> right now? It's worth uh like 3.85 3.87.

>> Well, sweetheart, if you sell the house, that's not going to give you guys any much money at all. >> I I know we owe 340 on it right now,

>> right? But after you pay your realtor, there's very little of this that is going to actually solve this problem.

>> Right. That's when we were like, "Okay, should we just try to fight for it or should we try to sell it and try to at least get out of it?" >> Jade's got something to tell you.

>> The only thing I was we were thinking is cuz my husband drives like an hour and a half commute to uh his job.

>> Okay. >> He wanted to >> to uh he wanted to move closer to his job because it's it's a long drive.

>> Could you rent for less money in that location? Sorry, Jay. >> That's okay. >> Um, the rent's probably going to be like 2,000. >> Yeah. Not much difference. >> Not much difference. Yeah. >> Well, no. You said you're paying 3100 per month. >> Oh, yeah. That is That is actually a huge difference.

>> 3,100 plus H uh the HOA.

>> Oh, that's not including HOA. What's your HOA?

>> Uh 250 every quarter.

>> Okay. Every quarter. Okay.

>> I would consider moving, Jake, in this situation because that's a long way to commute. Number one. Well, there's a couple of things. You got that big commute. I was going to ask you, is it an hour and a half each way or is that combined? Because if it's 40 minutes, that's not as big of a deal, but >> No, it's each way.

>> Girl, yes. I would definitely move.

>> He has to drive into the office uh three

days out of the week. So, two days he'll work from home, >> but three days out of the week he has to drive to the office. >> It's still a lot. 3 hours driving in a day is a lot to get to work. Um, so that's one that's one green light. It's not the biggest reason cuz like you said, it's not like he's going in every day, but it is a reason. The biggest reason for me to consider getting out of this house is because it's it's more than 25% of your take-home pay.

>> And at this point, you need every dollar

that you can get your hands on. Now, >> right, >> there is a thought here and and and you guys need to sit and talk about this cuz there's a thought where I go, okay, if you guys really start side hustling, if you start picking up your income, there could be a world when this debt is over that this is not 20 that this is 25% of your takehome. You see what I'm saying? That you raise your income and it becomes something that you can keep around.

Today though, >> it's really a problem. So, I would say your homework to sit down with your spouse tonight would be to say, "What are all the things we can do to make money? What are your opportunities that are directly related to your job and what are mine that are do you do you both work?" >> Yes, we both work.

income. >> I try to work overtime. I work at a a

daycare. So, I try to work uh extra like

overtime whenever I can. >> How consistent can that happen? Is that like a daily thing or is it like a couple times a month thing? >> It varies. It It varies. It depends on the teachers. Like I just found out I have CO so I have to be out all week.

>> Got you. So, what I'd be looking for when I'm looking for a side hustle, I'm looking for something I can count on.

That's the whole point. So, I'd be looking if I'm going to spend the extra hours working, I want something that's like clockwork. I can get it. I can go bust my butt and do it and it's there.

So, you both need that. Um, and then if something if you know, >> uh, part-time pops up at the at the job and you have the the leverage, you know, the place in your schedule to do it, you do that, too. But right now, I want here's my my main job and a go-to side

hustle that's always there. I can work it every day, every weekend. Got it. So, that's you guys' job to to come up with that tonight. And then after that, have you made a budget?

I tried that dollar uh thing. I just downloaded I did like this free trial thing, but I'm gonna have to cancel it because it's like $18 a month.

>> Okay. >> Y'all need to stop borrowing money.

>> Yeah, you got to stop borrowing. Ken is right. >> Yes, Ken is right. Like you got in this mess because y'all are trying to do too much and you don't have enough money for it. So, uh if you can't afford every

dollar to get a budget, you better get it out on paper. >> You can afford it. You spend more on pizza delivery. Okay, you can afford it.

>> This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

Dustin is going to start us off here in New York. Dustin, how can we help today?

>> Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> You bet. What's going on?

>> Question. Well, I have a question about housing and budgeting. So, let me give you a little bit of context. My wife and I are in our early 30s.

We've been working the baby steps. Uh, we've been married about 2 years and at about the year and a half mark, we paid off we finished paying off around 70,000 worth of debt. >> Way to go. >> Oh, thank you.

Um, and so we currently live in a one-bedroom co-op in the Hudson Valley, which costs us around $1,600 a month.

budget, we're able to, uh, save between $3 and $4,000 a month. And we've been doing that since we got married. Um, and so we're about to have we have a seven-month-old now, and in the coming May, we're going to have our second child. And so, that's a lot of people to put in a one-bedroom apartment. So to

yeah to get to a bigger place it would be about $2,400 a month at least in this

area just because it's the Hudson Valley. >> Um and so and our child care costs are likely to go up in the coming August um

once paternity and maternity leave is done. And so, um, my question is like,

do we do we stick it out here? Uh, because our long-term plan is to move out of state in about two years once my mother-in-law retires and so we're saving up for a down payment. But in the meantime, >> that's my question. >> Ind Indiana. We want to go to Indianapolis >> in two in about two years.

>> In about two years. >> How much money have you got saved up?

Um, so we currently have around 17,000

uh saved up. Um, we just finished paying

off all of our debt, so we're like we're just getting started on that saving process. >> But you're saving a lot per month, which is great.

>> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And our living situation really helps with that. And, you know, we got family nearby and all that. So, the location is good. It's just the the square footage is not great. >> Yeah. Um, and so, um, you know, do I do

I sell our co-op in the the meantime so

that during that two-year waiting period, we can have a, you know, more expensive but larger place, or do we just kind of stick it out in the the onebedroom with four people?

>> I mean, if I would what I would do is I'd stick it out for as long as I possibly can because the more that you can save on your living is the more money that you can save for a potential down payment. And I don't have to tell you you're you need a lot of money saved for a down payment these days, right?

So, the more that you can get uh saved

in the next two to two and a half years, that would be my number one goal. Matter of fact, I'd run it back and say, "Okay, um based on Indianapolis home prices and based on what we want, >> which I got you over here whenever you're ready. Whenever you're ready." >> Yeah. We're going to plug that in and then we're going to run it back and say, "Okay, what must be true for us to move in?" And then that's the that that is a s the the silver bullet of what we're saving for in the next two two and a half years.

So can >> I'm going to I'm your assistant. I'm giving you some numbers here. >> I don't my computer died so I don't have it. It's >> okay.

I got you. >> All right. You got it. >> That's what I'm here for.

>> All right. So in Indianapolis an average price >> for a three-bedroom home. I did threebedroom cuz it's going to feel like a castle to him. >> Love it.

>> Um Oh, I love hearing the little one in the background. That's real. We like that, folks. Um >> 230 to 299.

230,000 to 299,000 some specifics if you look at Marian County >> uh because I typed in greater Indianapolis >> so I'm giving so this is just what this is the homework you need to do my friend but you got Marian County median price is 229 Hendricks County median price is

303 uh Johnson County median price is

298 >> so let let's surrounding so you 230 to

300,000 And then let's add a little inflation to that. Let's say 240, right?

That's what I would say because this is 2 and a half years from now. So you say 240 and then knowing that the what you're attempting to do is is put 25% down. Then you can go in and plug in estimated taxes and insurance and all of that. And that number is what you need to be >> Well, I got him I got him at If you guys continue to save, if I was listening correctly, you were saving 3 to 4,000 a month.

Mhm. >> Uh you guys can have a shot at getting close to 100,000 just your savings, not including any equity in the co-op, right? >> Correct. Yeah.

>> Uh we think based upon comps that I've run in the area that I can get around 50

for uh 50 after the sale. Um and so that

brings us pretty close to that uh 20%

down payment with what we have saved.

Great. And we're targeting a house in Indianapolis around the 300,000 uh mark.

>> Correct. >> Love that. >> That's very doable. And I'm with Jade.

Then >> listen, the babies don't know. This is going to be tough on you and mom.

>> But you know what? Two little babies.

These are going to be memories that you two talk about when the kids are long gone for sure. >> And you're going to be like, "We did it." And I think since we're not asking the kids to suffer, >> you guys aren't really suffering, but it is a form of suffering. And I I'm I'm

with my partner on this one. She listen she and Sam I brag about this. She and Sam had one car for how long?

>> 10 years. >> And And how many years after you actually had the money to buy a car? >> Wow. Long. Let's see. We were done in 2018. I didn't buy a second car till we got here, which was 2022, >> which I don't recommend. [laughter] I think I think she's bananas. But she's the real deal. So I I'm with Jade. I

100% would suck it up. They're little ones. It's gonna be crazy anyway. Two

years is gonna fly when you got two babies. You know, >> I know. That's right. >> The days are long, but the years are short. >> That's right. >> And I'm with Jade 100%. I I'd tough it out and then make the triumphant entry into Indianapolis with a really, really nice down payment. And by the way, cost of living there, >> fantastic. So, man, you're going to feel like from Hudson Valley to the greater Indianapolis area.

>> Oh, man.

>> What a change. Unless >> looking forward to that. >> No, wait a second. [laughter] Hold on, Dustin. She's got an idea. >> No, it's not an idea. I I was just about to throw some bait into the water. Go for it. >> I was going to throw it. You said it's a really great cost of living there. And I was going to say unless unless everybody in New York gets spooked and starts going to places like Indiana and Florida and Tennessee.

>> Oh, we have some people raising their hands out there. >> You know what I'm saying? Indiana is the new Tennessee. >> Are y'all leaving? Are [laughter] y'all leaving upstate New York? I met you all earlier. Is that what you did? >> Yeah. >> See, that's what I'm saying. Now, I'm not trying to spook you, but I'm just saying the migration is real.

>> They're more mature. Can we say that they're a little bit more mature in age?

I'm just saying there are predictions being made. I'm just saying about another great migration. >> Oh, well, we'll see. >> We'll see. The times will tell.

>> Now's the time, folks. >> I thought I was setting you up. That's why I said I was putting a line in the water. >> No, I'm not going to take it. Well, I'll say this. I'll say this. I when people say they're going to leave this country based on some political change, number one, it's their right to say it. We saw a lot of celebs say it. A few actually did it. >> Instead, they just went to Indiana.

>> They went to England. >> Oh, I'm just kidding. >> The celebrities I'm thinking of. Yeah.

But, uh, you know, listen, are people going to leave over stuff like that? You better believe it. We saw massive migration from California. We saw it here in Middle Tennessee. Uh, certainly a lot of people moving to Florida. It's certainly going to happen, but I I don't think and I'm and my m my brother-in-law and sister-in-law live in Indianapolis, so I apologize ahead of time. Of all the places people are going to flee from New York, I don't think it's Indianapolis.

[laughter] And I'm not throwing shade at any of my friends. It's a nice area, sir. It's a lovely [laughter] area, but it's not on the top of anybody's list. Is that fair?

Even he's acknowledging me. He's like, "Well, you make a good point. Lovely place to live. Is it a top destination?

I don't think so. [laughter]

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Hey [music] folks, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is in studio with [music] me.8825-55225 is the phone number for us to coach you up. She'll be leading on the uh budgeting and what to do with the debt calls and I'm going to lead on how to make more money, how to move up in your professional life so we can make more money, more freedom. Uh that's the theme there. So, we'd love to hear from you.

And u uh how about a question from the Ramsay Network app, Jade? You up for one of those? >> Sounds good. Let's do it. >> All right. This is from Ann. She writes, "I'm engaged and my fiance just bought an RV >> for You ready for this? Hard swallow.

$240,000, but he's not sure how he's going to pay for operating it.

>> Yikes. >> What? I'm concerned that he may take a

loan out. So, he'll not only have a monthly payment, but also all the expenses and upkeep that go along with owning an RV. My question is, how do I

proceed? Because we plan to get married next year and we disagree on money issues. Yikes.

>> Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a big red flag.

Dude went and bought an RV.

>> I don't think I realized that RVs were this expensive. >> Oh, man. Yeah, >> that's a house. >> Oh, yeah. >> On wheels, basically. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, but but doesn't go up in value, >> right? Dropping like a rock. Yeah. Drop

dropping like a rock. Okay. You should be concerned. The fact that she's concerned that he's going to take a loan out makes sense. He took a loan out for the RV, so yeah, he'll probably take a loan out for the upkeep. The biggest issue is they don't degree agree on the money issues. Ken, I don't know about you, I believe that money, it's one of

those big >> overarching themes you've got to be aligned on. It's money, politics, religion, and how you see raising your kids and family, that kind of thing. >> I agree. >> And so, >> I agree. >> This is a big one. Um, the best way I

think to call this out is just to sit them down and say, "Listen, here's what we've said our plans are together. We obviously plan to get married.

>> Um I I've started noticing that you and I have different views on how we view

money >> and how we view debt.

>> Um can you tell me a little bit more of how you see that playing out in the future? And maybe just kind of set them up with some questions. Hey, uh in the future when we want a car, what do you think we would do? Would we get would we try to save up in pay cash or do you think we would take out a loan? and just kind of ask him, learn more about what

he would say. And then you once you've

heard his response, then you come back and say, "Okay, well, here's my viewpoint. I think that if we were going to buy cars, I'd like to pay cash and here's why." And here, and then lay out your side and say, "I just want to have a clear conversation and see, is there a way that we can get on the same page with this because this this feels like it could cause problems down the line, and I don't want that for us." And you just have to have a hard conversation.

>> Yeah, I I agree with everything you said. I' I'd probably ratchet up the uh the the uh technique here.

>> Tell me. >> Yeah, I'm going to go with the uh he needs a text.

>> What do you mean? >> I'm going to tell you. >> You're going to text him the questions? >> No, I'm going to text him and say we need to talk. >> Ken, now you know that that strikes fear. If you didn't have bubbles in your tummy, when you receive that text, you will have >> You need bubbles. We need bubbles. This is a bubbles. This is a bubbles level conversation. >> Oh man. So you want to create uncomfortability going in.

>> He needs to know how serious it is.

>> Okay. >> This is not a manipulative power play.

It is a we need to talk. It's time to

define the relationship.

>> Ah >> because she says in this question, I am really concerned that we don't see eye to eye. And I think I agree with everything you said. I just would put some seriousness on it. She's not a threat. >> Serious sauce. Yeah. >> She's not manipulation. I'm just saying it needs to be I don't know that we

should be talking about getting married >> or no I don't know we shouldn't be talking about getting married >> if we can't get this >> we've got to press pause on this cuz this will break us down the road and this has nothing to do with my feelings for you I think it's that serious >> okay so let me >> I'm approaching this as if she were my daughter >> okay but here's here's let me push on this a little bit >> there we go this is why people show up >> let me push on this a little bit Okay.

>> I would be afraid because love goggles make you can make you change parts of yourself. >> Can you and this is embarrassing, but give me a real quick 15 second on what love goggles means. I think I know, but I'm not sure I've ever >> Love goggles are you see them and everything's perfect because you've got like these you don't notice their back hair. You don't notice you know the little things that you get married you'll start to notice, you know. Okay.

>> So, you think she's got love goggles?

She did. She doesn't now. No, she doesn't. But my point is, if he has love goggles on, if she makes it feel like an ultimatum, >> then he might change some of his answers in order to get what he want. And I'm not saying like maliciously or like in a diabolical way. I'm just saying that >> sometimes the pressure.

>> Yes. Because the truth is you are your best self when you're in your dating phase. You're your best like you're on your best behavior. And so he could be like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, honey. You know, we don't have to do debt." Duh.

>> So, you think my approach help me. How is my approach not how does she then

>> because I think if she makes it I think if she just makes it a conversation and we're talking she's more likely to get the real answer.

>> But if she puts the stress of we need to talk, we need to define this relationship. Then he could feel the need to be like, "Well, okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No debt. No debt. That's fine. That's fine." But that may not be really where his heart is. That >> I know. Okay. So, okay. So, let's say I go with your approach. I'm not there yet. Okay, fair enough.

>> Let's say she has that conversation >> and and then there's no real there's no real outcome. >> Then I think she can ratchet it up. I think I would start. >> So, you okay with my You like my plan.

You just aren't ready to to push that button yet. >> Yeah, we're on we're on like level two and you were coming in hot on like medium high. [laughter] >> All right, that's fair. And I and I listen, I can now say I understand that.

But, you know, I was truly coming at it from >> if it's your daughter. If it's my daughter and she's having this conversation, she says, "Dad, what would you do?" I went, "Dad, I I pushed the dad button, everybody." >> Oh, >> Jade, thank you for pulling me off of it a little bit. >> If it was my daughter, I'd be like, "Let me go talk to him." >> Okay. Hello.

You just took me and said, "Hold my beer, and I'm going to I'm [laughter] going to kick the door down." All right. All right. Very good. Uh, but you get my point.

I I would say this.

>> Okay. >> Can Can we park it? Yeah, that's a good >> because here's why. You nailed it

>> on the things that cause marriages to to

splinter and unfortunately break. You you gave a whole list.

>> Kids, faith, politics, money.

>> Yeah. >> And excuse me. And to that point, we have a lot of new people that are joining this program all the time. >> Yes. I'm I'm parking it here because I

think it's important that we share with people why this actually happens. There are deepseated habits

>> that come from beliefs, the environment on all of those issues. You could pick any of this issues. We're only talking money right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But when when when you have two when you have two completely different value sets

and you mentioned love goggles, let's just talk about money goggles. >> Okay. If the two sets of goggles and the way you see money are so different,

>> it literally can cause chaos in your

relationship. True or false? Is that too strong of a statement? >> No, I think that's exactly right.

>> How does it cause chaos? >> Well, you know, think about it. One is uh let's let's filter it through the question. She is a person obviously a little bit more frugal. She sounds like she's debt averse. She sounds like she understands the value of keeping your income every month. And that might be because it all of that belief is because of how she's experienced the world up until this point. And then he's the opposite. I'm not saying he's a bad guy.

I'm just saying that his beliefs are based on how he's experienced the world up until this point. And when you want somebody to change what they believe

based on how they've experienced the world, that is a hard fought. That is a hard fought fight. >> Yeah. It's it's their default mode.

>> It's their default mode. So you can't, it's not just as simple as well change.

Well, I got to go back in and I got to figure out how do I feel about this and what does that mean about me because I've always operated like this because of this. So it's not just a surface level request. That's right. Hey, I don't want to use debt anymore.

Oh, okay. No problem. Like it's it's never that these are and that's why I say when it comes to these money issues, >> we do say Ken, >> sometimes it might sound a little bit flippant. Get on the same page with your money.

Yeah. And the point is, it's not a light switch that you just flip up or flip down one day.

>> I agree. And I would say on all of those issues, I think all those issues should come up in premarital counseling. Can I just put that out there? But I certainly believe money ought to. Just press pause. Don't get married until you get on the same page with this stuff. I think you're save yourself a ton of stress [music] and and and everything else. My goodness, it's that important.

So, just a little relationship thing. We talk about this relationships and money, folks. You just cannot untie those.

[music] They are tied together whether you like it or not. So, really good stuff. All right, quick break. Don't move. More calls. They're all lined up, folks. We're going to get to them. This is the Ramsey Show.

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[music]

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.88255225

is the phone number. It's time for our question of the day. It comes to you by

and from our good friends, Why Refi? Why Rei refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment that you can afford with a low fixed interest rate you can you can't get anywhere else. So, this will help you stick to your budget and work your debt snowball. Go to yrefi.com today.

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may not be available in all states. Oh,

>> all righty then. You have to turn your microphone on. >> Yeah, that's how that works. >> You do.

Okay. Today's question comes from Tyrone in New Jersey. He says, "I work for a small company with less than 20 employees. Recently, I discovered that while my employer has been taking deductions from my check for my 401k, they have been holding the money and making a few small deposits into my account throughout the year and then one larger deposit at the end of the year." Huh.

Does this sound legal or unethical? And is it time to seek new employment?

>> Yesesh, >> that does not sound right. That

>> it does not sound right at all.

>> Smells very fishy. Um yeah, because you're missing out on time in the market if they were not investing the money into the funds that you chose. That >> this needs to be dealt with instantly.

>> Instantly. >> Like sitting down with lots of leaders going, "Hey, look, I'm immediately I got questions. Don't go in accusing, but a lot of questions and good questions. Why

has this been happening? >> Yeah. >> Uh, you said sorry. That implies a mistake. Has it been remedied? What are you going to do about all the back stuff? There's a lot. >> What's the tone? I need to know tone because I I'm having a strong tone.

>> Uh, I'm going to say serious tone.

>> A serious tone. I'm not messing around.

>> Oh, yeah. Very serious. The qu Let the uh I like that you asked this. So, I want to set this up. Well, >> okay. >> The questions themselves

>> take care of the tone. In other words,

>> you don't have to be accusatory, angry. Um, a really pointed, specific

line of questioning. >> Uh-huh. Uh-huh. >> Pre-thought out. Maybe right there in front of you on your lap. Yes. >> Or on your phone.

>> And in the moment, the you're serious.

Serious face. We're not joyful about this. >> No. No smiles. >> No amiiableness. It is seriousness. But I think the questions asked properly

make it very serious. They go, "This is a person who did their homework. This is a person who has follow-ups. There is a line of questioning.

They they feel as though they are on a witness stand." And that's how it should be. You don't have to be ugly and accusatory because you're hoping to get to the bottom of this and get an actual solution. But by doing this, you're going to find out really quick if this is a fishy situation or if this is a fixable situation. That would be my take.

What do you think?

Yes. Like >> Yeah. >> That that way. >> First question. How did this happen?

>> Yeah. Oh, okay. >> And stop talking. >> Yes. >> How did this happen? That's a serious question. Then the followup is has it

been fixed?

Will this ever happen again?

>> What happens to the money that I earned that should have been put like these questions? These questions are going to imply a whole lot of seriousness. That that would be my posture. >> And and and >> spoken from a guy, by the way, who's not done it well.

All right. I mean, cuz I get it. I get how the heat should be pretty hot under the hood there. It should be steaming.

Uh but can we keep that in and can we ask the questions that way? That helps us hopefully get some real responses. >> I hope so. Yeah.

This this would be this needs to be dealt with quickly.

>> I don't think I I mean don't get me wrong this is not the type of thing that would ever happen here but let's just pretend I looked at my investments and said wait a minute like my thing didn't go in there. I mean I I would go to my leader and or you know who's over HR or

whatever and say hey here's what I discovered. >> I I I would not be lawyering at this point. I'd be what doing what you're doing, which is asking serious questions. >> This is the thing though. They've already apologized and so essentially we have an admission of >> we have an admission of guilt here.

>> At this point, wait for the next round and if I see it again, cuz my thing is [clears throat] if I see it again, then yeah. >> Well, I'm sorry. I should have done a better job asking you. If you know you've got to go have this conversation with the leader, which they do, I I might consult an employment law. >> Yeah, I probably would at that point.

>> So, I know what should be. Mhm. Oh, that's This is Yeah, this is very >> Give me a [laughter] >> They They Listen, I don't want to say do anybody wrong, but they took a loan.

>> It smells over there. >> That was a loan. >> I get it. Let's go to Denver, Colorado next, where David awaits. David, how can we help?

Hi, I'm starting to work the well I'm working baby step 2 and I have been

using a credit card for all of my like day-to-day purchases and I pay that credit card off every month but I'm looking to stop using it and I'm just a little hesitant to like start carrying a balance so that I have like the money to

just use the debit card for other things and then like have to carry that as I pay that one off too instead of just like paying it off and I'm not sure like is this something where I should like wait a month or two and save up the extra money or should I just go and carry the balance and pay it off as quickly as possible?

>> So, okay, let me filter it through the baby steps. So, when you're paying off debt using the debt snowball method, what we say to do is you pay minimum payments on everything so that you're satisfying whatever your your debts are for that month. You're paying, you know, you're doing the things on your budget that are necessary for that month. whatever they may be.

I mean, everybody pays their rent or mortgage, you pay your groceries, you pay your minimums on your debt, and then the extra money after that goes to paying off your smallest debt.

that the month requires and which for you that's going to feel some type of way because you're used to doing that with your credit card. So, essentially, you're used to taking all of your income and throwing it to your credit card to paying it off. And this month you're going to go, "No, I'm going to take my income and I'm going to use it on my life." And what the margin is I'm going to use to pay off that credit card. And what you're going to discover there when you do that is what has been true all along, which is that money was debt and you were borrowing it and now you owe it and have to pay it back.

That's what that's going to feel like.

Does that make sense?

>> Yep. >> Yeah. Listen, I'm proud of you. I'm glad that you're see you've seen the light.

you've had that moment. What caused you to to go, you know, I don't want to do this anymore?

>> Um,

it it just like it's a little hard to plan like when you're the bill is

finished on the 20th of the month, but you don't pay for it until the 15th of the next. And >> so, it seems a lot e more simple to manage the other way.

>> Well, listen, I want you to have every dollar. that's going to be a great way for you to make this transition into

using your own money. And I let me just say and and Ken, I know you can speak to this. When you have been a person who you've let credit cards run their scam on you, which what credit cards do is they say, "Hey, we'll make your life easier for you." Uh, easy in the word in

quotes. But what it's really does is it steals your confidence to handle your own money. That's what it does. because you have this crutch that you've been relying on that's always there. It's debt, but you don't feel like it's debt.

And then the moment you remove it, suddenly most of us are like, "Oh my gosh, I don't even know what to do with my own income." It feels exposing.

>> And so that you're going to feel that for a moment and then you're going to go, "Oh, wait. I actually make money and I I work hard for my money and I should have the dignity of managing it and

spending it in and of my control.

Okay, >> there you go. And what will change is I was waiting for him to respond because you know the the emotion there. >> He's he's licking his wounds. >> He really is. But [laughter] you know, I love that he told you why this why the call. Why the change?

>> The stress of living off of that credit

card way that a lot of people do that.

Yeah. >> Well, I'm going to use it for this and then pay it off. And for him, he's not wired for that. >> Yeah. >> And I'm just thinking about how light he's going to feel. >> Yeah. you know, when he just starts to do it this way, the way you've told him, and he goes, "Okay, now I am in full control. I don't have that angst, >> and you're not behind a month." When you do that, you're always behind a month.

And so, what happens? You put everything on your American Express. And then what happens if you lose your job? Now, you just owe the money, but you didn't get your paycheck. >> Yeah. >> So, there's there's method to the madness, people. >> Good stuff. Thanks for the call, David.

It's going to work. Take a deep breath.

Maybe three or four, and it's going to be great. All right. Don't move. Quick break. More of your calls coming up.

She's Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.

You're listening to the Ramsay Show.

[music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[music]

[music]

[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is in studio with me. 88 8255225.

Thrilled to have you with us. We're here to coach you up. Let's go to Brandon in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Brandon, how can we help today?

>> So, I just enrolled in an HSA this year and I'm wondering if it makes sense.

>> Okay. >> I had a couple of uh

a couple hospital visits pop up this year and I'm anticipating the same thing next year. >> Okay. So, even with the compounding interest, if I'm spending thousands of dollars each year, does it make sense to

still hold on to the HSA?

>> Um, well, it depends. I mean, when you do know that you're going to have qualified medical expenses, it could make sense to pay for them through the HSA. Um, and in that way, you're not you're not taxed on that money. Um, so

that could make sense for you. So, you're thinking about it more um through the lens of your actual health purchases. You're not thinking about it as an investment vehicle, which a lot of our callers do. Correct.

>> Well, no. I am looking at it as an investment vehicle. I'd like to have it, you know, in retirement.

>> Oh, okay. Well, in that case, an HSA is

a great idea if you know that you don't

go to the doctor much. If you're willing to have that higher deductible because maybe you know that you're not going to meet it, that's that could be great for you. And then of course, if you're thinking about it as a retirement vehicle, that's great. But it would not be my first choice. Uh it would be what I would do maybe tertiary to a 401k or a

Roth IRA and then I'd go in and do an HSA. Have you already maxed out those other options?

>> I have not. >> Okay. So yeah, I've just been paying for everything out of pocket so far.

>> Okay. So if we're looking at it through the the lens of strictly investing, yeah, I'm starting with a 401k. If I have it through my work, you know, start with that. If there's no match, you start with a Roth IRA first.

Now, for the use of, hey, I want to filter some of my uh actual health expenses through this, then yeah, you could fund it up to the point of, yeah, I know that I'm going to spend, I don't know, $3,000 on healthcare this year, so I'm going to put that in there, and then I'm going to use that HSA to then pay for those expenses.

would not overfund it to the point of

investing. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. Okay. Oh, it's it's set up weird where I have to have $2,000 in the regular HSA and then everything above and beyond I can invest.

>> Yes. And if you if you know, hey, at this point the $2,000 that are in there, I'm actually going to use that on healthcare care costs this year and this is a great funnel for it. Yeah, I'm all for that. But as far as you overfunding it to the point that you can then invest the rest, I would not do that until I've

overfunded my 401k and Roth IRA. Make sense?

Yeah. And I'm, you know, giving the max

uh up to the match for the 401k. And I'm uh [clears throat] slated to max out the uh Roth IRA by Great. Good for you.

>> Yeah. And if you do all three of those, you are what's known as winning at life.

That's amazing. >> Yeah. Congratulations. Thanks for the call. Good call. >> By the way, speaking of winning at life, you dropped tertiary out there. I want to just give a little shout out to that.

That's a great word. >> Tertiary. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's a word, by the way.

you figure out how to use that, right?

Drop that in a sentence [laughter] this week. Uh you you get a good brand at work. So, there you go. Just call that out. Thanks for the call. I was impressed. Tertiary.

>> Yeah. Very nice. Word of the day.

Conor's up next in Boston. Connor, how can we help?

>> Hi, Ken. Hi, Jade. Love you guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> You bet. What's going on?

>> All right. So, my wife and I just got married. We're in the process of combining our finances and I basically have a retirement question. Okay. Okay.

>> Uh my question is should we convert the

money that we have in our traditional 401ks into >> Roth >> or should we just from this point forward put money into the Roth 401k

option? >> Okay. Uh what baby step are you in?

>> We're in baby step 3B. We're currently renting uh and we're going to be renting for the next couple of years because we're not going to be in the city that we're in long term. >> Yeah. I mean, >> how much do you have? Can I ask you a question? How much do you have in your 401k?

>> Yeah, so across my wife and my accounts, we have about 220,000 in there. Uh our

household income is about the same.

>> Okay, good. >> Very good. Uh typically we would wait until baby step six to make a rollover like that because the truth is you're going to be on the hook for some taxes associated with that obviously. Um >> right. And with the goals that you have up until this point, in this case it's saving for a down payment, it could really eat into that goal that you have.

Um, so for this matter, you may, you know, yeah, I from this point on, I would do Roth style. That's what I would invest in, but I probably would wait to roll it over until you're ready to fit the tax bill and that it's it's not going to put a dent in your other very important goals. So yeah, you could wait till baby step six to do that.

>> Okay, great. Thank you very much.

Absolutely. Love that call. They're they're rocking. Love hearing that. Uh Spokane, Washington. Uh near your uh

birthplace. Isn't that right? >> The city where Hey, before we go to Spokane, let me go back to that cuz somebody might be like, why do they want to do that? What's the purpose? Okay.

>> Uh so their their 401k that they have

now, they have not paid taxes on that money, right? And what they're trying to set themselves up for is a situation that when they get into retirement, they can pull money and not have to pay taxes on it. So if you do a Roth account, you're paying the taxes upfront so that when you're 59 and a half and older, you can pull money from that and you're not taxed on it. So most people would like to carry that burden now instead of waiting for later.

So that's the purpose of that. And whenever you attempt to move that money that you have not yet paid taxes on it, well then you will have to pay taxes on it. Okay. >> Yeah.

Glad you did that. All right, Ry's up in Spokane, Washington. Randy, how can we help?

>> Hi, Ken. Hey, I'm I was recently uh let

go in my mid50s uh from an executive

position making north of 200 grand a year. And since I'm completely debtree,

everything I have a pretty good uh nest

egg set aside investment wise, I'm thinking about making a career change.

But to start out, I'd be making maybe

maybe 50 a year the first couple of years. And then later on it, you know, it goes up. But, uh, it's something uh

gets me out of the the corporate stress and the hassle. I don't have to move.

Uh, it's right down the road from my house that's completely paid for. That does that sound weird?

>> Uh, no. It doesn't sound weird given what you just experienced. I mean, when when you lose a job like that, that is a a real shot. Um you we know from

psychology studies that it's the equivalent of losing a loved one. So, number one, I'm sorry that happened to you. Number two, it's not weird for you to be thinking through this. Um my my

first question comes down to um the

transition phase. So, financially,

can you make ends meet making this pivot

to to the $50,000 a year deal? And then

how long would you have to live uh in

that situation?

>> Yeah. So, I'm I'm cash flowing it all out and I have access to about4 million dollars in cash outside my uh

401k investments, Roth, all that. So my

thought is that while I learn this learn

this new uh uh career path, you know,

maybe I I pay myself three grand a month

out of that lump of cash that I have and

you know, we just a little bit more than what we were doing before, >> right? So that's 36,000. Jade and I are keeping track of the money. So, so and would that would that then get you to a place where we've got margin if I if you used 36,000 of the 250 that you got set aside? >> That's what my that's what my spreadsheets tell me. >> Okay. Now, what is the I'm just curious.

What is this new path?

>> Being a surveyor, a licensed surveyor.

>> Okay. And so, uh how much would is it Excuse me. Is that a government job? Is that like a county level, state level, >> or is it private?

No, it's actually it's actually it's a it's a little private company that uh they have their own little firm and um you know they run run a little business. >> All right. And so 50,000 a year for how long before it goes up and then what does it go up to?

>> Yeah. Well, >> at that point it's just going to be just just me and my wife. And you've got in your investment situation, you started off the call saying your investment situation is good. Uh in this situation,

I'm okay with this. I just wouldn't limit myself just to the to the 50,000.

I'd be doing some other stuff in the meantime because I really don't want to use any of that 250 [music] I've set aside. That would be my advice. If you love it uh and you can make that change, then I'm okay with it. It's not my favorite idea, but not a bad idea. This is the Ramsay Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman and we're going to go to Matt who's joining us now in Fort Worth, Texas.

Matt, how can we help today?

>> Yes, sir. So, as of this past Monday, I

had a truck that I've been paying on for about two years. I had an auto loan for

about $30,000 on it. I owe about 27, I'm

sorry, $23,000 still on it. And the motor blew up. Um, it's unfortunately

just a bad design from General Motors. M

>> um they've had issues with this vehicle or these motors um for substantial amount of years at this point. >> Um and I have now fallen victim to said bad design. Um it would be about $15,000

to have a mo uh the motor replaced. Um

and I'm trying to decide if what's my best option for it um before I try to go trade it in and then be upside down on

it. You owe 23.

>> Yes, sir. >> Uh, if you get the motor fixed, if we could snap our fingers and it was just fixed today and it was paid off, is this a truck you'd be happy to drive for a while? And could you?

>> Uh, oh, the truck's in great condition.

Um, other than that, um, if the motor were to be fixed, um, there is a company that sells a motor that has the system

that caused it to have this issue in the first place, uh, deleted, and that's the option that I went and got quoted from when I talked to the shop.

>> Do you have the 15,000 in cash?

>> I do not.

>> What do you have in cash?

>> Uh, I I don't have much. Um, my

girlfriend just finished school and I was basically the primary provider um

for about a year and a half with us.

>> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How old are you?

>> About 30 years old. >> You're 30. Okay. You compliment to you.

You sounded much. >> You did. You did. >> Uh, why are you the primary provider for your girlfriend? You guys aren't married. >> Is she 32?

>> No, she's a little younger than me.

>> How old is she?

She is 27. >> You really don't know how old she is? You had to think about that. That's kind [laughter] of funny to me. >> That's a different issue.

>> That's a whole another deal.

>> Different show. Different show. But I'm going to go ahead and tell you, you probably need to be on top of that one.

Um, okay. You should So, you need to

come up with 15 grand. What do you make?

>> I work in public safety. Um, so last

year I made about 70,000. Um, I'm probably on track for about the same this year. >> And and and um if you weren't helping

provide for your girlfriend, it's just you, right? Just rent or do you own a home? I mean, what's what's the situation there? >> No, it would just be rent and my normal expenses. >> And um I'm sorry for following up on this. Is is she able to support herself now?

>> Yes, she's working full-time again. She just started with the the school year.

>> Jade, >> she works as a >> um a American Sign Language interpreter and she started interpreting with a school. >> Yeah. All right, Jade, I don't know where you're at on this, but I there's there's a part of me that goes because he's already upside down in this. The tradein option to me is just foolish.

You're just not going to get anything at all. I'd rather see him working two, three, four jobs. >> Yeah. and come up with 15 grand to get that truck fixed and then and then you

got to swallow the pill and pay it off.

But if it's a good if it's if the truck's in good shape other than this defect, >> yeah, >> that again, I'm giving you the answer on what I would do. >> Well, yeah. I mean, if you roll out the numbers, if we if we looked it up and said, "What could you get for this with the bad engine?" I mean, what is it?

What would your be your estimate? >> Do you have any idea?

Yeah, I've been um shopping around with a couple different uh dealerships. Um I

reached out to GM recently because or I'm sorry, GMC because they have the highest rebates and stuff right now because they say >> uh GM would give me 9,000.

>> Okay. >> GMC 9,000.

>> I mean, cuz if you think about it like that and then you add what you would have to kick in to cover the upside down plus to get another vehicle. Do you see what I'm saying? you're still shelling out $15,000. So, that's kind of the numbers on it. I I can't see

why you wouldn't just at this point. I hate it, but yeah, I don't think the numbers are good for you either way. So, it's do you want to keep the car and pay the 15,000 or do you want to get out of the car and get another beater, which I

don't think you do. I think you'd rather drive the more the the nicer car of the two if you can just get the money. Uh,

>> I've tried that. Um, >> you can't go into debt for this. I'll tell you that. Like if you end up if you

can't find the money and you end up having to go the other route of, you know,

>> okay, >> if you cuz here's the thing. If you do a personal loan to get from upside down, your numbers are going down. And I can I can advocate for that, right? I can advocate for you getting out of debt and then having to get a beater car and taking out a personal loan to do that, right? What I can't advocate for is you taking out a personal loan to keep a $23,000 car that you were already in debt for. Does that make sense?

>> Mhm. >> So, if you can't come up with the money,

you might be going down in value.

>> But I'm sitting next to a person who who uh with her husband, they had one car for how many years?

>> A decade. So, where there's a will, there's a way. And what I'm saying is is is figure out a wayavement >> to to get where you need to get. And uh I think you can come up with 15 grand pretty quick. A single guy who's able-bodied >> now. You might have to stop taking care of your girlfriend. >> Oh, no. That's done. I'm already assuming cuz she's just your girlfriend.

She's a she's a grown woman.

>> Uh you got problems,

>> you know. >> Yeah. So taking care of her problems aren't isn't your problem.

>> You can't you can't. >> You know, in fact, you guys have been, you know, playing house for apparently a long time anyway. So no date nights, no nothing. You got to come up with 15 grand stat.

Did we lose you?

>> No, I'm still here. >> Yeah, it's a bitter pill to swallow.

>> It is. >> Uh but I I just think the way Jade broke it down is great. And that just again, we're always trying to answer things like what would we do if you were in your shoes? >> If you can get the money Yeah.

>> without debt, yes, keep the car. It's it's you, to your point, it's going to be a great car when you get it fixed.

But you can't you can't do debt. I can't let you take out $15,000 of debt to and

put it with a $23,000 debt. I can't let you do that. And you should say that to yourself, too. And go back and listen to this call, right? Don't come off this call and go, "H, I can't get 50,000. I'm just going to do marinate on it." Because when you do, you're going to see, oh man, the last thing I want to do

is go from being $23,000 in debt, you

know, to being 30 $45,000 in debt. That

would be terrible. >> I agree completely. Are you stunned?

>> Yeah. Um I've tried going that route. I just haven't been able to find a a place

to be able to do that. Um, I initially did attempt to contact my bank um to try

for a personal loan because other than

the faulty design, I don't have an issue with the truck. I enjoy the truck. I've been driving the truck for 2 years and it's been great. Um, >> so then what do you think your option is?

>> Listen, it's not fun. That's why >> it's not fun.

[music]

All right, Jade. The allnew Every Dollar is here. And now it's way more than just a worldclass budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help make faster progress with your money. I want you to imagine going on Every Dollar uh after going into uh your app store, Google Play, and you get in there and you spend about 12 to 15 minutes answering specific questions.

>> And then right away, >> like you were on the air with us, you get recommendations on where you can save money and it's several thousand dollars. Imagine that.

>> Um and imagine that you got one of us

always on call. That's what this app is.

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You are with it. It is the perfect partner. Start every dollar for free today. Get it in the app store or Google Play. It will absolutely be a gamecher for you. Ashley is up next in Indianapolis. Ashley, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, so I'm a realtor. Um, so my

commission actually goes through an LLC we just set up. But, um, I have a savings account where I've been putting my salary in, but it's been really sloppy this past year. So, I really wanted to kind of get clear. We're on baby step two. Um, so, how should I be

using that salary account? Should I put in like six months and dwindle it down

and replenish it every quarter or should I have a full year salary in there before I started attacking the debt?

>> Oh, I see. Okay. So, are you the only Is

it just you or you said you're married, right?

>> I am married. Yeah. >> Okay. Does your husband work?

>> He does. >> Okay. What is What do you bring in uh a year and what does he bring in per year?

>> So, this year I'm bringing in 130 and

he's bringing in 40.

>> Okay. So, what does it cost on annual B?

And we can look at this monthly. Let's let's look at it monthly. What does it cost on a monthly basis to make your household run?

>> 4,000. >> 4,000. Okay. So, what I would be doing is since you know that, it sounds like

you're whenever you get a big lump sum of money, you're throwing it in savings and you're just kind of filtering in your portion of whatever makes the household run every single month. Is that right?

>> Sort of. So, all of my commission goes

into the LLC checking account. And then I put in what I know I need to get paid for the next couple of months, which is $2,000 a month, and that goes into our

personal account. >> Okay. And then you're trying to understand, okay, with the rest of it, can I go ahead and start paying off debt or how much do I need to keep aside?

>> Correct. Yeah. Like, should I should do like six months and then replenish it?

>> Well, how about we come at it >> or if I should do a year? >> What if we come at it a different way?

How about you tell us how much you have in savings in or excuse me in the LLC account right now?

>> Right now we've got 13,000 in total.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And uh how much debt do you have and list it out for Jade? Smallest to largest.

>> Cool. So smallest to largest, we've got five in school loans.

>> Okay. >> Seven in a motorcycle. [laughter] Um 21

in car and then 22 in credit card.

>> Okay. Few more questions about that.

What's that motorcycle worth if if you or he were to sell that today?

>> He rides it an awful lot, so I don't know. It might be worth five.

>> Okay. You notice I You notice I said if I get I get I get it. And it's such a small amount. You guys could knock that out so we don't have to get rid of it.

What uh uh Okay. So, Jade, you've got a picture of the debt right now.

>> Uh what do you have in the pipeline as far as home sales?

So, I have two that are pending past their contingencies. That'll be about 13,000 um this in the next 30 days. And then I also have five active listings. So,

>> looking at maybe 20 more thousand.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> That gives you a better picture. >> Yeah. You've got 13 coming and then maybe another 20,000 in active listings.

Uh and there's already 13 there. I

probably If your husband made a little bit more money, I might pull this number back.

But if I were you, I'd want like

two months there. Does that feel right?

>> Two months in the in the account to know that I'll be okay. >> Yeah. So, instead of 13, you said 2,000 a month is what you pay yourself. So, she's saying 4,000.

>> Four or five. >> Leave. Okay. Leave five. Let's say five.

And that gives you eight to put towards debt. That's what she's throwing out. Does that feel like and then on a regular occurrence that five if it goes down you're always replenishing it to where it's always five? You're you're paying yourself your monthly amount plus there's always five in the contingency account. Does that feel good?

>> Okay. So, more like an emergency account. >> Yeah. But I don't want it to be confused with your emergency fund >> because this really just is it's kind of like if you have any other sole proprietor, you just want to make sure, hey, there's money coming in.

I understand my my income is very >> fluctuated. >> We would call this retained earnings in entree leadership land, right? And and so but what we're also trying to do right now is >> we're trying to coach you up on what you can do with the 13 that's in there right now and make some headway. You've got a $5,000 student loan that you could knock out immediately.

>> Done.

>> Oh, 50 bucks.

>> Okay. It's still 50 bucks. 50 bucks is 50 bucks. Yeah. which is great. And then the next month, my goal would be to knock out this motorcycle.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> That's 12 grand over two months.

>> Can I be honest? I'd sell the motorcycle. >> Well, I was going that direction. >> I'd get the two I'd take $2,000 so that you're not upside down and I'd sell it. That's what I would do. >> But you said he rides it a lot. That's what the only reason I You know what I'd do? I'd challenge him. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'd challenge him to go get a side hustle. What does he do, by the way, for $40,000 a year?

>> [snorts] >> He so we actually live in Anderson which is like a smaller market but um he is in

training to become an electrician so he is going to skyrocket crush okay you know what for them that's where I'm at yes Joy I mean excuse me Ashley sorry sorry Ashley I think he keeps it um and

you guys go all in on this and knock this knock this out but I knocked the student loan out today I'd cut a check for five grand as soon as I got off the phone >> yeah that's going to feel >> that's going to leave eight in there Jade Um, and it's going to feel real good.

Like that's a massive momentum.

>> Yeah. And then put the other three on the motorcycle. >> That cuts that in half essentially.

>> And then the next month, so that means in December the whole bike will be paid off. And now you guys will be setting yourself up to work on the credit card debt. Now, is it one credit card for 22,000 or is it littleer ones?

>> No, it's uh there's two basically split in half. >> Okay. So Okay, great. So yeah, I I would work on right after that. Yeah. Now you got 11,000 one $11,000 card and the next $11,000 card. You guys are going to go so fast like this.

>> I love it. I love it. How what's your anticipated timeline for him to start making the money as an electrician?

>> Um I think he's due for a raise in six months, but about a year is when we'll actually know for sure when he'll get in there. I think you guys, if you really get after it, I mean, you're going to be a long way down the line here on paying off this debt by the time he comes into some really nice money.

>> I think you're going to be done by the end of the year because I think you're killing it on real estate. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I think the more >> yourself for not having it done now.

>> That's all right. Before you pay, it takes a minute to get the bearings on this. >> Listen, we're not playing armchair quarterback and looking in the back and looking in the past. Ashley, this you guys are a great young couple. This debt is very manageable. I'm so proud of you.

The thing that made me smile, by the way, Ashley, is when you told me what was in your pipeline, >> you know, great. >> Five houses sitting out there. Let's see if we can stack two or three more on top of that. That's a beautiful situation for you.

>> And if he starts side hustling, yeah, mark my words, in 12 months, you're going to be out of debt. He's going to be, you know, >> increasing his income greatly. You guys are going to be it's going to be looking good for you, >> right? Well, thank you guys a whole bunch.

>> Yeah, you you're in great shape. Head up, right? Super excited. Um, we're gonna put you on the spot before we let you go.

>> 102%.

>> HOW ABOUT THAT? [cheering] >> That's what I'm talking about. >> That's like a nice birdie puck clap right there. I think that's fantastic.

>> I love that. >> You know what I love about her? >> Get it. Yeah. >> She said 102%. That means it's happening, Ken. >> I think she's cutting a check right now.

>> That is That's great. >> Uh boy, that feels good, doesn't it?

Describe for people from a from a from a person who with your husband, you paid off half a million. What is it going to feel like to her? Describe the feeling for somebody who's yet to do it. >> Oh. Oh, boy. It's It's like nothing else because it's never comes back. It's a stress that never has the ability to come back in your life again. It's >> deleted. Deleted from the deleted files.

>> Yes. Yes. Evaporated. Men and blacked.

[music]

[music]

[music]

The Ramsey show rolls along from our

Nashville area base headquarters.

Thrilled that you are with us. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is alongside.

The phone number is 88825-55225.

Let's go to Chris in Sacramento, California. Chris, how can we help today? >> Hi guys, I just want to say thank you for hearing me out. Um, I'm 27 and I'm

getting married within a week and I have

a debt, no debt, sorry. Um, but 65% of

my income is going to my house and we're

drowning about negative 20% per month on

our utilities and groceries and we've cut back and I'm debating on whether I sell my home, rent my home, I have an opportunity out of the area for a job that I would be able to live uh rentree

and just trying to figure out life.

>> Wow. Well, what we know to be true is this 65,000 this 65% mortgage uh can't

continue. So, we know that's true.

Right. >> Right. >> So, that kind of takes a weight off of our shoulders to know, okay, we can't stay here. And then the question is what

do we do next? Because you said you've got an o now we can start to say, okay, do we want to do the opportunity that's outside of the area? What does it look like? Um I think you mentioned renting this house and so now let's talk about those other options. So, is it fair to say that we both agree you can't stay in

this house?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, now let's talk about what do we do with the house? If I were you, I'd

sell it.

>> I'd gross about 150,000. I'd probably net after real estate fees about 135.

>> I like that. What's wrong with that?

>> Nothing. It's more as just my first home. I just put $100,000 into it the

last two years and you know I was envisioning having my kids here.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So there's just the emotional connection to it. Um how long did you have the property?

>> Two and a half years. I put about $150,000 down on the house when I bought it. And I had a really good management position at a restaurant before and that's where I'm going to now for the new opportunity. Um, I tried to start my

own business and it didn't work out exactly how I hoped, but I I'm recuperating my losses and I'm just trying to get back on my feet. I'm currently serving at a restaurant right now and I've been getting by with that and me and my fiance have just our net income together is just where we're at.

We're not we're not making it.

>> You're in Sacramento. Why are you guys staying in Sacramento for jobs that sound like you could do them really in anywhere in any part of the country? >> Well, and that's where that's why we're move moving it. It's just more of a >> do we rent the home and make a a profit per month about $100, $200 or do we sell

the home, put the entire, >> you know, net into a money market account. >> Yes. >> And make about $400 a month on money market. >> Let's do the ladder.

Let's do the ladder because if you have the opportunity to rent somewhere out of the area and they're covering the rent, then this is an opportunity for you to start over. Let that money grow, that equity that you're going to get out of the sale of this home. Let it grow over time because the time is going to come when you want to buy again. I did I just I did have a math question on this because I thought I heard you say that you put 150 down on the home >> and then I also thought I heard you say that you put a 100red into it.

Is that right?

What happened there?

>> Uh, bad contractor. Um, I got really

jacked up by that. I lost probably about $50,000, >> maybe more. >> And >> yeah, and I mean, I I'm not a contractor guy. I I you know I was doing my job and

I ended up going underneath the house and I just saw problems and I saw problems and I >> long story short cost me a lot more >> and I was paying the mortgage at the same time as I wasn't living in it. So I

was you know unfortunately paying double

>> away. Yeah. So it just really >> drain us out and then I just paid off all my credit card debt. Um I had about

$17,000 in debt. We're completely debtree. That's a car payment. Yeah.

>> So, there's there's some silver linings here. I think the hardest part is you had a vision for this house. You got taken for a ride and that sucks and now as a result, you know, it's not going to be the house that you raise your family in. But I love that you have other opportunities and it I mean you can Kin's here on the on the career side of this to to weigh that out.

I'd take advantage of that while you're on the line. >> Yeah. Well, Chris, if I heard you right, you got a really good manager gig you're heading into, so you feel good about this? Yes, I'm super conf.

It's a nice restaurant in uh South Lake Tahoe and it's it's to the nines. It's like my dream job. So, >> fantastic. And did you say South Lake Tahoe?

>> Yes. >> Oh, man. That's that ain't a bad place to work. >> Come on, Chris.

>> And I'd be going for it. But yeah, I it just it all makes financial sense.

And it's just Yeah. >> I just I have with my business, I've kind of had some regrets on that and I don't want to have my cart in front of the horse. And >> I love it. You're asking the right questions. Jay gave you great advice.

You do not want to be a landlord from long distance.

This is time to move on. This is a clean start and and I think it's great for you. You're going into your dream job in one of the nicest places in the United States to live >> and um and you're going to get free of this house which has just been nothing more than a money pit for you unfortunately. So yeah, sell and move on my friend. Sell and move on. I love that. >> And do you want to take another call or can I highlight this for the people?

Hey, I want to highlight this because a lot of times people are like, why does it have to, you know, we teach that the mortgage shouldn't be any more than 25%.

And I know there's a lot of questions around that. And this is a really great um it's just a cautionary tale of what takes place when you don't heed that advice because if you really think about it, it you know, if you look at your your money as a as a whole thing, you know, 100%.

>> I love that you've got an orange for our listening audience. She has a she has a little tangerine in her hand. >> Yeah. And if you think about it as segments, right? >> We got to cut it up into segments. >> It's going into segments. And so if you think, okay, if you do, let's pretend like, yeah, I'm taking your advice. 25%.

Okay, now we got 75 left. And then it's like, okay, if you're a person who values generosity, most of us do. So you give another 10%. Now you're at 35. And

now you say, okay, well, you've got to invest. Baby step four, I'm investing 15%. Now, before you know it, we're already at 50% of our income, >> and we haven't even paid our other bills yet. We haven't done child care yet. We haven't put aside for kids college yet.

We haven't uh, you know, done taken a

vacation. We haven't even done anything yet and we're already out 50. So, imagine what it would feel like if your mortgage was at 40%. Or 45%. You feel

that very, very, very, very quickly. So, it's it behooves you.

>> It's a great word, you I like a good word. [laughter] >> It does behoove you to to think about, okay, what are my ratios here? And is this sustainable long term? Because 65%

>> like you said, they're burning 20% every single month. >> There ain't enough tangerine left over.

>> There ain't enough. You got to eat the >> time you do. [laughter]

That is fantastic. That's why I showed up today for that moment. That was good.

Yeah. But it's it's a wonderful illustration. And and then I want you to while we're on this, >> okay, >> also why we give him the advice of don't try to stay, don't become a landlord.

Don't keep that house because he think, well, I'm going to make 400 bucks a month. I want you to walk through the math, the real math, when people think that that's a good idea. >> Well, I think for him, it was more of a sunken cost fallacy. I felt like he thought, well, I put this much into this property.

If I hang on to it for a while and keep dumping effort or whatever it is into it, maybe I'll get it out.

And you kind of have to just >> eat pith and go this [laughter] this was a bad break. It wasn't a good investment. You know, I got taken for a ride and walk away. And for him going all the way to from Sacramento to South Lake Tahoe, and now you're going to be a long-distance landlord.

>> Yeah. Trust me, when he rolls in in that moving van to South to South Lake Tahoe, he's going to be like, I don't I'm not knocking Sacramento. All right. But that's a difference. >> He's going to be like, "Forget. >> You want to leave all that behind." [laughter] >> Yeah. You want to leave it behind. And he had a bad taste in his mouth. So, I think for him to come out, he's clearing 135. It's not as much as he should.

That's right. But it's still money. And it's going to sit in a high yield for however long until they're ready to buy.

>> I agree. >> And when they buy, they're going to put as much down possible on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage. Hopefully, that they can get paid off quickly. He's already debtree. >> Yeah. And so, >> so the principle of this whole segment is uh >> do you know what it is? You've been saying it. >> Don't eat piss. >> There it is.

>> By the way, spell that for people.

>> P I piss. P I T H. Is that right?

>> I think I'm going to be a hidden letter in there. >> We did. We got validation. The guys in the booth. >> Great. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Think about the ratios of your income. Think about each section like this Clementine I hold in my hand.

>> Oh, it's Clementine. Hi. >> It's even better. >> Mandarin. >> Love it. That's how we're going to do this. Make sure >> lesson feel like we went back to Sesame Street. You laid it out for us. I love it. Good stuff. All right, quick break.

She's Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.

We'll be right back.

[music]

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

[music] Our scripture of the day comes from Philippians 1:6. God who began the good work within you will continue his work until it is finally finished. Our quote from Nathan W. Morris. The speed of your success is limited only by your dedication and what you're willing to sacrifice.

Well, you could put that right on top of the baby steps. You could just lay it over. >> Factoids. >> That's really good. Love it. Okay.

Harrisburg, Pennsylvania is where we go to see uh talk to rather Leo. Leo, how can we help?

>> So, I'm having a problem. Um I make decent money at my job, but I can't seem to save. It doesn't matter if I try, you

know, separate accounts that aren't connected to my checking account.

>> Mhm. >> You know, and I just cannot seem to save money to have an emergency fund to pay off debts. >> What happens? You transfer it over there and then you end up just peeping back in there and sneaking the money out.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I just keep dipping into it.

Whether it's for something important or just something that I want that's not important, I just can't seem to, you know, connect connect the dots between saving and not using it. And So, I got a

question. Um, I'm asking this on behalf of my friend here. Uh,

if we were following you around with a documentary crew for a week, what would

be the top items that you're spending the type of things you're blowing money on? You're spending the money on. If we're following you around, we'd go, "Oh, Leo, he's spending money on this." Give us a top five just off the top of your head.

Oh, it's gas station, uh, energy drinks,

uh, hunting supplies, you know, things that I I don't need.

>> Okay, that was good. That was a good list. Anything else? >> I not really. You know, uh, when I was younger, it was a before I had kids and real responsibilities. It was a, "Oh, I'll make more money tomorrow." And I kind of carried that over now.

>> And I can't seem to get away from that.

>> Trying to outer bad spending habits.

>> I got to ask another followup, Leo. If I'm following you, all right, and we're in the gas station parking lot and we're zooming in on the doors and you're busting out of that thing. What do you got in the arms? What do you got in the old bag at the gas station? I'm curious.

>> Well, usually it's two to three energy

drinks, uh maybe a snack for work, and a

can of tobacco.

[laughter] >> Dip, corn, nuts, Mountain Dew right in it. >> Oh man, that's disgusting. Say it's not true, Leo. >> Oh, it be so. >> Oh, it is. [laughter] I got to tell you, if I was on a desert island and the only thing I had was a bag of corn nuts, I'd starve. I'd starve. I really would. I'd die. >> They're They're actually delicious. >> So, let's help the man out with his budget, J. >> Okay. So, I think I heard you say you had kids. Is that right?

>> Yes. >> How many? Four. Okay. And you're married still? >> I'm not. >> You're not? Okay. >> We are We are dating. We are together.

We live in the same house, but we have not gotten married yet. >> Okay. So, you have a woman that you're

soon to marry. I'm Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Uh Okay. So, let's talk about the

money first and then we'll go back to the relationship cuz we're not going to speed past that like you didn't just say what you just said. >> Four [laughter] kids.

>> Okay. So, first off, what you really need I think the solution here is a good detailed budget. I always say that budgets should be three things.

Detailed, realistic, and flexible. And that will really help you out because I think what's happening, like you said, you're kind of spending the money before you get it. And it's like I can out earn this. I can now earn this. And if you don't, then you end up having to pull back out that savings. So, >> we'll make sure that you get set up with every dollar. And what I want you to do, I want you to sit down and create your budget. And I want you to be so detailed

about all the things that you know you spend money on. Even the energy drinks.

If you know that's something that's part of your life right now as it sits, put it on the budget. If you know, hey, like I buy a hunting knife at least once a month, put it on the bud. like be realistic and honest with who you are in your spending so that you can begin to see, okay, I see what's going on here, right? So, that's a good place to start.

And then obviously, the same way that you're budgeting for all the other things, you budget for things like savings and you can actually see, do I have money to put aside in savings? Can I live the lifestyle I'm living and still have money to put aside in savings? Right now, it seems as though the answer is no, but when you do the budget, you're really going to get a clear picture of what's going on. So, that's thing one. Um, thing two, I haven't even asked you about debt yet.

Do you have any debt?

>> Uh, we have two two vehicles that I pay for and I have maybe $2,000 of credit

cards that I'm slowly working on paying off. >> Okay. So, um, putting everything into

perspective right now, if you do find

extra money in your budget after you've budgeted for everything right now, the money wouldn't necessarily go towards savings. You'd save up $1,000 and that's it. If you can get $1,000 and just set it aside, tuck it aside for a rainy day, that's great. Everything else needs to go towards paying off this debt.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Now, let's talk about the elephant

in the room with this the relationship because >> I don't know why mama is not paying for her car. I don't understand it. I don't get it. >> Well, I don't understand why children don't go to school. >> Well, I'm with you on that. I'm as traditional as I get. Why aren't you guys just married yet?

>> And it it's 100% my fault. Um I am I

want to give her everything that I possibly can wedding-wise. Like I want it to be the wedding of her dreams.

>> Yeah. >> And with with the money situation, I am not to that point where I'm comfortable spending that money on something like that. >> I hear that. >> So it's me holding back. She want she's pushing for it, which I have no problem doing it, but I want it to be everything she wants. I don't want her to have to hold back on something. >> Listen, >> because we don't have the money for it. I 100% honor the idea that you want to

give her a wonderful wedding party, but I want you guys to frame that as that's what it is. It's a celebration. It's a party. You can get married legally and don't nobody have to know but you guys and then you're at least protected legally >> into it.

>> Huh? >> She's been looking into that through the courthouse and things like that. >> How about this? How about you guys just get married and then you can you can throw a celebration years from now or you can rededicate your vows and she can put on the dress.

I mean, >> spoiler alert, everybody is married before their wedding day. Everyone.

>> Oh, >> the moment you go and sign the >> You had me there for a second. I was like, uh. >> So, the idea that it's like, "No, I want to wait until the day." I'm like, "We all get married on paper a week or so before we're actually married." >> So, it's not even like we make it more of a thing than it is. So, I think for you guys, it's like, "Yeah, get married on paper.

That way you can do all the things we just talked about with your wife." Yeah, >> that sounds nice, doesn't it?

>> It does sound nice. And then you guys can save up for this wonderful party.

You can do all of it.

>> How much you think you're spending a month in energy drinks, bro?

>> Oh, I got a plan here. >> It's usually about $10 a day.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, we're going to do 30 days in a month. All right. That's $300.

>> My guy is Ric Flair on those energy drinks. >> I'm telling you, man, you need to get rid of the energy drinks. That's a $300 a month raise. Do some push-ups, some pull-ups. All right, get some good night's sleep. You won't need an energy drink. I don't need an energy drink. I wake up with the juice, man. Okay, I'm just telling you. I drink a little bit of coffee. >> But that's like two cups max.

>> Energy drinks. Two cups.

>> All right. >> Not energy drinks. Those are >> Yeah, those are the toy.

>> But I'm not getting on your health. I'm actually saying $300 a month. I wanted you to see quickly how you just changed your life. >> That's a big deal. >> That's a big raise for you. True or false?

>> For real. >> You can get rid of the energy drinks.

>> Mhm. >> Don't get me started on the tobacco.

>> Well, I'm slowing down on that. I >> know. And that's why I didn't bring it up. I am trying to actually be sensitive. I get that one's harder to kick than the energy drink. >> If you do this budget, >> I think you're going to be astonished.

And especially when you share it with your new wife since you guys are getting married this weekend, I think you're both going to be astonished. And there's something about seeing your behavior >> on on paper written out that you go like you clutch your pearls. You're like, I can't believe I've been spending my hard-earned money on this when I could have >> this. And so the what you could have is what you and your wife when the time comes, you need to be dreaming that up together.

>> Uh you're giving all this great financial advice.

>> You're my friend. You are Mrs. Clean Eater. >> Yeah. >> Give him some No, you do a great job.

Give him a healthy snack instead of the chips at the gas station. What's he taking to the office for a snack? Come on, >> Ken. I'm glad you asked this. Let me tell you what I want right now. >> He would like it. >> I take a Granny Smith apple and >> Oh, love a Granny Smith sour.

>> Sour. I slice it up. Right. So, we got slices. Then I get a little >> Tell me it's peanut butter. >> jar of peanut butter. It's not just that. separated at birth. I know we live another Wait, I'm getting more hemp seeds. So, I go apple into the peanut

butter into the hemp seeds. Last salted caramel. >> I don't know if I need to be that chilled out. >> Bit of salted caramel. It is so good.

>> Is the hemp seed going to knock his intensity off? >> No. Hemp seeds are they're a complete protein. They're [music] really high in protein. They're delicious. >> I'm learning something new every day. There it is, Leo. There's your healthy snack, man. We just saved you more money. >> Yeah, man. >> No more cup holder. [laughter] This is the Ramsey show.

[music]

[music]

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## 5. A Financial Reset Is Better Than Staying Broke | November 20, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw and we're answering your questions. So give us a call at88255225

and we'll be talking about your life, your money, career, relationships, anything and everything. We are here for you. So let's start off in Boston with

Miguel. Hi, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> We're doing well. How can we help today?

So today I wanted to ask uh so I have a business and I'm um I'm contemplating on what I should do next because I'm I'm also 147,000 in debt and that's including credit cards, student loans, and a car payment.

>> Okay. >> So I want to know if I should sell a business um for what I think I give value for and then start fresh and then use that lump sum of money to attack like the debt.

>> What kind of business are you in?

Uh, it's a printing business. So, merchandise. >> What would cause um, >> what would cause you to sell the business versus using profit from the

business to pay down the debt?

>> I think it's just cuz I'll collect a lump sum of money and like the business right now is kind of, you know, fluctuating. It's up and down. Um, and

I'm also alone in it. So, it's a lot of my time >> where I feel like I if I could change the >> If you didn't have debt, Miguel, would you stay in this business

>> or would you still want out? >> Uh, yeah, >> you would stay. >> I potentially stay in the business. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Because I look at this as I mean because I mean, well, how much would you sell it for? How much could you get out of it >> minus all of your liabilities and everything?

>> About 30 grand. M I How much are you

making off of it every year? How much are you bringing home?

>> So, this is actually like my first year in it. Um, so I'd know at the at the end

of the year, but roughly after everything about 1,500 bucks a month.

>> 1,500 a month. And this is this what you do full-time or is this kind of like a side business?

>> Uh, it's full-time.

>> Well, I don't know that I would sell it.

Uh, but I would not have this being my full-time job right now because of what it's generating. It feels like >> How are you guys How are you guys living? Does your wife work?

>> Uh, no. I'm single. >> You're single. How are you living off of $1,500 a month?

>> Uh, just just making it happen, honestly. >> But what's your rent, though? Like real numbers?

>> Uh, I pay uh studio. It's about 850.

>> Mhm. What else? Car. Uh car. Yeah.$450.

And then >> 450. Okay. >> Anything else? >> Yeah. >> And then utilities. I guess that's put in with the rent. And then just you're scrapping on food. No insurance.

>> Yeah.

>> Do you have insurance?

Health insurance? >> Well, like car my cars.

>> No, no, no. No health insurance.

>> Yeah. So, you're not on a you're not on a living wage right now. And so, while I

think it's cool to have a printing business, this uh it eats like a a part-time side hustle when we look at the the the income that it's bringing.

So, I would be looking as you're working

this, I'd be looking for a full-time job. What are your what are your skills?

What have you done in the past before you did this business?

>> Uh, I I technically just hopped out of school and then saved money and then started this business. >> Yeah. How many hours a week? I I've never really >> How many hours a week are you putting into this?

>> A lot. It's probably like 50 60.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Okay. So, if you

did, do you have a buyer out there? Like when you say sell the business, I mean, what's that? Have you have you looked into that option? Is there a realistic option?

>> Yeah, I have Yeah, I have a few options.

And that's when I mean the business, I just mean like the equipment and everything. >> Yeah. Um, >> oh, I hear what you're saying. Not necess Yeah. Okay. Yes, >> because that's where the debt is, right? What did you invest in to do this business?

>> Like what what equipment do you have?

>> Oh, I have uh like DTG printer, heat presses, >> um, and a couple other machines,

>> you know, >> desktops and stuff like that. I I'll I'll tell you. Um

you've you haven't been doing the business long, so I don't want to say that there's no future in it. Like But how much of this debt is business debt?

Like how much of it came from the business?

>> Um about eight grand.

>> Okay, that's not bad. Of the 147, that's only eight. I I'm inclined for you to continue. I I what I want to know is

what's the minimal amount of hours that you can put in it to keep the 1500

so that you can search for something else. Is there any feasible way to do that?

>> Yeah, it's possible. That's that's also another plan I've been thinking of because I have a location um in the premier like downtown area. So, I was thinking of just getting rid of the space >> um trying to find something smaller and then um >> kind of just work on based off orders I get. too much like being in there.

>> Do you have consistent clients that you're reprinting for >> or is it a one and done >> for the most part?

>> Uh, a little bit of both, but I do have I I've picked up a few clients that are picking up, you know, monthly. >> Yeah. And is most of the hours when you're saying I'm working 50 hours on this, is it most of it in the actual physical printing that you're having to do or is it trying to find new clients and marketing and thinking of creative ways to get your name out there?

Uh, a little bit of both, but mo mainly the the printing process, like printing and and being in there.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, I'm with Jade.

I mean, Miguel, if you have all the equipment and it is bringing in, 1500, obviously, that's not that's not sustainable long term for you to live like that. Obviously, you know that or you probably wouldn't be calling the show. Um, so it's November. A part of me would give give it another six months while doing something else.

Like, you need to go wait tables. I mean, you could make more money doing that. I mean, something, right? you need to go be doing something and if you can keep this on the side and actually get some clientele you could >> I don't know and if you yes grow it and then maybe that be your full-time or you just have these clients and you start making 3,000 a month while also still working to get out of all the credit all the debt that you talked about at the beginning of this call.

hold tight for like maybe six months.

give yourself a a time period though to say okay I don't go into any more debt in it >> uh but to say can I pick up any more steam in this business uh in the next 6

to nine months and if you can't then sure sell the equipment and then that will give you some money um but we just see this Jade and I both I think >> uh as a great side hustle for right now while you go get a full-time job somewhere else >> the fact that you've started generating money so quickly from it I think is good and you have made an investment in some equip ment and it feels like worth it to try to play that out a little longer. But I like what Rachel said on putting a timeline on it.

>> So I would do that, Miguel. Or just throwing this out there kind of the other side of the coin is if you hate it and you're not enjoying it, but you I think you are liking it in some degree because you said you'd still stay in it if you didn't have debt.

yeah find something just full-time sell the stuff and you start a whole new life where you're not feeling like you have to carry a business, right? Because it does it's a lot of strain and mental calories to do that. Um, so I don't know, kind of two different options, but either way, you got to get a second job either way. >> Agree. Agree, >> Rich. Yeah. Um, I hope that helps. I

know that sometimes the when we just tell people cut your expenses and get a job. I know it feels tough, but truly that is that is the remedy. You don't have expenses to cut. You're bare bones as it is.

So, the next line of defense is getting more income. That's how it works. >> Yeah. Um, and Ken Coleman has a book, Find the Book.

Find I'm sorry, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. and we'll send that to you cuz there's a great >> um it's on a quiz assessment at the back. Yeah. To kind of figure out maybe this will help kind of narrow some possible career paths for you too Miguel that you can just kind of brainstorm and think.

So hold in the line.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Music]

Up next, we have Cody in Rono, Virginia.

Hi, Cody. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey. >> Hi. How are you doing?

>> I'm hanging in there.

>> Well, good. We are too. How can we help today?

Well, so I got a little bit of a

financial problem as well as marriage

problem and it's becoming a strain more

so you know with the marriage because of

the financial problem. Um I have

>> we recently had gotten married about five years ago. My uh wife and I have

had three kids in the last 5 years.

And my youngest kid um he was put in the

ICU and >> long story short, we have a bunch of medical debt. Uh it's about $35,000

worth and >> I just can't keep up. I just recently in

the last couple years we've been on um Medicaid but um I just recently got a

raise working which is good but it's

like >> the more income I come in the more my

wife likes to spend. Um I'm the saver.

>> I like to say no and you know get bills

paid. We currently have been taking care

of some of the medical bills by credit card, which recently I figured out was a no. No. >> Yeah. >> So, I have seven grand left in medical debt. We have >> Oh, that's it. Of the 35, you only have seven left. >> No, no, no. Sorry. I have $7,000 of

credit card debt. >> Got it. >> And I still have the medical debt.

>> Got it. >> Okay. Um because we have the three kids, we had to purchase Well, we didn't have to. I guess we could have just kept going, but my wife wanted to purchase a bigger vehicle for traveling and stuff.

>> What' you spend on that?

>> Uh that was about $50,000.

>> Oh, yeah. You're right. You didn't have to spend that. Okay.

>> Yeah. So, long story short is that we messed up when we bought the car and now

it's kind of a paycheck to paycheck uh repetitive thing. >> When did you get the $50,000 vehicle?

How long have you had it? >> Uh, it's been about a year.

>> Okay. Shoot.

>> Okay. So, when you talk to her, Cody,

about this, how do those conversations go? Are you showing her numbers? Are you >> telling her that she's spending too much? Yeah. What's the >> It originally came up because I noticed that our savings account was going backwards. >> Oh. >> And uh instead of paying uh monthtomonth

uh >> I mean that dude's circling in there.

Can you do that going down the road? We >> the >> Cody. >> Sorry. Sorry. Can you hear me? >> Yeah, I can hear you. >> How much was in the savings account to start and how much has it dwindled down to?

So, originally we had about 20 grand in savings when we switched uh

>> to um because we had sold a house and we had a bunch of money invested into the house and we got a bunch of money back to pay off some debt.

>> Well, we went into the house and had money left over. We had 20 grand in savings. >> Got it. And what you >> I was having to I've got it down to like

5,000 now. Five. Okay. And was she using any of this Cody for >> everyday expenses like like the grocery store? Like where is she spending it?

>> So most of it has been when I get a

budget cuz I do all the money cuz she stays at home and takes care of the kids because if we tried to put four kids through daycare then it would just take an entire paycheck or two almost. So,

the biggest thing is how do it's going through like she's

buying clothes for the girls or >> Yeah. >> and I can't get her to stop.

>> Well, let's let's let's I feel like you're >> I feel like you're laying out the problem. I want to get into some real numbers so we can see exactly what what you're describing looks like. How much money are you bringing home every month?

>> I'm I'm bringing home from So, I got two jobs. I just started a recently a landscaping business which my main job

I'm bringing in about $5,000

a month >> plus >> and that's you know what I'm actually bringing home um not >> after taxes and then um plus my side

business if I get a job or two and I only have time to do that on the weekend. >> How much? >> Uh roughly two grand at most. Okay.

Probably. And give me an idea because you said you're a numbers guy. What are you for your because I thought you said three kids but then you said four. Is it four kids? >> So my old Yes. So my oldest I have four kids. I have three with my wife currently. >> Understood. So for Give me an idea of

what you have on the budget to spend on groceries.

>> So our budget right now is roughly about $1,200 a month on groceries. Oh, by the time I go to the >> brace. Mhm. >> I can't I can't I've tried to limit it

and it just seems like every time I try to limit it, it >> Well, that feels right. That feels right. Give me an example of a budget item that she's gone kind of ballistic on. So, we can get an idea. Is this $50?

Is this $500?

>> No. So, right now we have our joint checking, which is what I, you know, feed the money to her through. um is like if I tell her $100, it ends up being $150.

>> Okay, Cody, you're not her dad. Okay, so the everything that you're saying in this call so far, not saying that she's out of bounds. She could be out of bounds cuz she she spends more than what y'all are making. You can't do that mathematically, be a grown-up, right?

That's how you live life in debt. And we we don't want that. >> But I mean, you just said like, well, she stays home with the kids and I do the money.

>> and that was our plan and so what well I think the first step you you have to do is to get her to sit down at the table with you and you guys look at numbers and together you guys create a budget, Cody. Because I'll be honest, too, >> you know, I'm sure there's some wrong in there that she has, but also she is seeing expenses every single day and knowing the reality of what things cost because she's the one buying them and you don't. Now, again, I'm not saying that she's justified in it, but you actually may learn something in sitting down with her and hearing what she has to say to say, "Oh, wow.

I didn't realize that sports uniforms cost, you know, 30 bucks a kid.

But she also if if there's any entitlement in her end or any like, oh well, I don't know. I just I just have to buy the girls. If it's that attitude either, she has to grow up and mature.

So you both need to sit down and you

need to come to her and say you have you you don't need to say well you're spending too much you you you Cody you need to tell her I'm freaking out over here like I am to this point where I feel so disconnected I feel so fearful I feel so protective of the money cuz I feel like we are not on the same page so will you please sit down for me right like you make it really about you and

what you want for the outcome to be which is you guys be on same page and for this not to take your marriage because it does. Cody, you're exactly right because because I do think people cannot get on the same page. And so I would beg you to say that that is that's one of the best things that you can do because out of that budget meeting, I think she's going to have a lot to say. I think you're going to have a lot to say >> and to be able to actually discuss it together, not these oneoff conversations.

>> Yeah. So, we actually recently uh I've been m well I almost make her I mean

it's it's kind of like feels forceful sometimes because I'll sit down after the kids go to sleep and we'll sit and then I'll go over the budget numbers and stuff with her and um but like here recently I've done it more so to where she's aware of you know >> but there's a reason saying how much is

there >> there's a reason that this is offputting for her um And you've got to get to the bottom of what that is there. There's something there. Whether it's something that has nothing to do with you possibly, how did she grow up? What were the relationships she was in before?

Maybe, I don't know, we didn't get to talk about it, but did she have a career before and she's used to kind of contributing in that way and now she's not. There's something behind this. It's not just, well, she won't stick to the budget. It's never that.

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Well, it's that time of year and in a few weeks we're going to be doing the special giving edition of the Ramsay Show. We do it every holiday season and it's one of our favorites because I think it does >> it highlights humanity. It kind of gives you faith into like the things that people are doing day in and day out for other people that are not highlighted or not seen. we like to highlight and show you all um how incredible it is.

So whether maybe you've tipped a waitress $100 or bought Thanksgiving dinner for a family that couldn't afford something or afford the food, uh maybe bought someone a car, it could be something um anything that where you have been generous or maybe you've been on the receiving end of it, we want to hear from you.

and put giving in the subject line and

just give us a little blurb of your story and what it is and you may be yeah selected to be on our giving show that we do annually again. So, that is coming up on December 18th. So, start sending your stories today so we can celebrate living like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. All right, let's go to Bato in Atlanta. Hey,

Beta. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, how are you? >> We're doing well. How can we help today?

>> Hi, so I just bought my first car. I'm 17 years old. I work full-time at a MMA gym and the finances that came with the

car kind of are kicking me in the ass.

>> Yeah. >> But it's my first car, and I don't really have another option. >> What'd you get? >> I got a 2012 Honda Accord.

>> Okay. So, what's the big deal? What's it cost you?

>> So, the total is 8 grand

>> for the car. And my friend owns it, owned it, and he told me I can pay him $400 a month. >> Okay, >> that's fine. I make roughly $850

bi-weekly. >> Okay.

>> And the part that's getting me is the insurance. My insurance for just liability a month because of my age is about $700.

>> Mhm. and having to pay all of that on my

own. Buying a used car, I also have to pay a title tax because we switched it over to my mother's name. And that's about another $700 >> a month. >> No, just in one time.

>> Just in one month. >> Okay. I was like, what?

>> Mhm. >> Okay, keep going. >> But I I have to get it all done at once, which is kind of the hard part. and

and I have one or two little repairs

that are going to cost me a total of 350 >> before I can get a tag.

>> What would happen?

>> So, you haven't done it yet. You haven't done this deal yet.

>> Um what how are you getting around now?

>> So, I did buy the car and I have a an operating permit >> for from Georgia without a tag for 30 days. But once that runs out, I'm going

to be stuck without a tag and not being able to drive the car until I pay.

>> Well, you haven't you haven't done the title exchange, the title transfer yet, right? >> I have. >> Dang it. Ah, >> okay. Cuz what I was going to suggest to you is to not buy this car and just work

your job cuz you were getting around somehow before this. Keep doing that and save up four grand and get a beater.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. Um, is there any way to go backwards on this deal?

Cuz >> I don't think so. >> Um, not not at all.

>> Okay. Second second round then is

you tell me how old you are again. 22.

>> I'm 17. >> 17. Um,

man, >> are you in are you in high school?

>> No, I work full-time. >> You work full-time. Okay. It >> And how and how much are you making? Oh, bi-weekly. You said you're making00 a month. How are you? >> Around 8:50 every two weeks.

>> Okay. Um, are you living alone or are you living with parents?

>> I live with my mother, but I try to contribute where I can. I'm really >> independent financially.

>> If you are working full-time, I just

wonder because you said full-time hours at an MMA gym. I wonder if there's something that you could find full-time that will give you a little bit more money to give you some breathing room on this while you can get it paid off.

I applied to an orthopedic clinic of a friend that I know and I'm supposed to start in about two weeks.

>> What will that be? >> Starting us at 20 an hour.

>> Okay. And 40 hours a week?

>> 8:00 a.m. 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. >> Okay. So, that's going to be better for you >> for sure. >> Are you able to go to this gym at night when you're got when you're done at 5:00 p.m.? >> Yes. >> Go and work at night >> on the train. So, >> okay. So, you could go work from like 5 to 7, 5 to 8 at the gym and get like an

additional three hours a day?

>> Not necessarily, cuz my hours from the gym are either >> 9:00 a.m. till about 1:30 or 4:00 p.m.

to 9:00.

>> Okay. >> And if I get out of the other job at 5, the only time I have left would be those few hours. >> Yeah. >> And that would leave me no time to train, which is why I got the job at the MMA gym in the first place. M Well, what if you what if you just what if you

continue to train at the MMA gym just because you like training, but you got a different part-time, like a different side hustle job to bring in the 1,700.

>> So, you did the full-time gig at the orthopedist office and then maybe you drive some Uber cuz you got a car now.

>> Or not Uber, but like, you know, Instacart, Door Dash, that kind of thing. >> And then, yeah, you just work out at the place you like working out at.

>> That makes complete sense. I I have one more question on starting my own business. I was actually going to start my own business soon about car detailing. >> Okay. >> But I wanted to know whether I should try to pull the trigger now or whether I should try to pull the trigger after I get everything with my car done and pay off. >> I mean, what's it cost? You don't have any money?

>> I have about $1,000 saved up that I have

like in case my car like engine messes up or anything like an emergency emergency. And you need that. >> I'm not even planning on touching. Yeah, I haven't been planning on touching it, >> but >> yeah. So, it would just for the car detail, you'll probably need some equipment, right, to be able to So, that would be saving up and paying for that.

So, I would just price out B what um if you talk to some people in the area that do it, how much they have invested in it, how many clients they have, how long the job takes, run some numbers because you may I don't I'm not sure what the numbers are. So, you may find out, you may find out, oh my gosh, this is pretty incredible. I only have to put 500 bucks in and I'm making thousands a month.

That's worth pausing paying off the car to get that built up to start that because it's going to bring in more income. Or you talk to people and you're like, "Oh crap, that steamer and this and this to really >> do it. It's going to be thousands and you're only really making x amount." Like, whatever the numbers end up being.

Yeah. >> You probably can make that call. You have an amazing work ethic. Like, it's very incredible. Um, and I just want you, you know, steering your financial decisions to help you, not harm you. And debt will always set you up uh in the

negative. It always will financially, emotionally, your stress, everything.

And I think you're kind of getting a glimpse of that. But I'm kind of glad you're getting a taste of it at $8,000 for a stupid car loan >> versus a $40,000 business loan that you're probably going to want to do when you're 25 because you're very entrepreneurial, right? So, just remembering to stay away from debt. all

together. All together and you're a smart, hardworking guy and I think you're going to do fantastic. So yeah, the car dealersh

kind of figure out and if it feels like, okay, that's a good investment that's going to that's going to bring me a significant more money than these other two things combined.

>> Um, >> and it's something you can start small on. You don't have to start with every piece of it. It can really you can build into that. >> Yep. For sure. >> Yeah. That and then and then starting to to Yeah. get this get this car paid off and it's going to it's going to feel like an uphill battle with this insurance. When you turn 18, does it go back down? I'm sure I'm sure it does.

>> I'm not quite sure because I asked um one of my friends who works with insurance and he said not usually and if it does it's minimal, which I would appreciate anyway. >> Yeah, >> but 700 about 700 a month for liability

is the only thing that's counting.

>> The $400 a month for the car, I understand that. >> Right. Right. Right. Totally. Yeah, it's the insurance. Did you um where did you get the insurance? Did you price out different companies or did you just pull a quote from one?

>> So, I started with like Geico or something and they started me off at almost $1,000 for just liability >> because of my age and then I went to a few places. I went to this mom and pop shop >> for insurance down the road for me and they quoted me the lowest at 700 a month. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I would keep shopping that just to see. Um, and yeah, when you turn 18, you

should see a little bit of relief. And also, when the vehicle is completely paid off, you should see a little bit of relief. It's not going to be a lot, but it'll be something. Yeah.

Gosh. Well, bet, I hate that you're in the situation cuz I I hear the the stress and the regret already, but I really do think with putting some some of these jobs kind of together, making some more money, and really being focused right now, like I I think you're going to you're going to get out ahead on it, but um but I think it's a good lesson to learn. I hate to say it.

And that's what debt does.

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[Music]

Well, there are some things that uh no one tells you about money and those are the emotions around it. And Jay, that's what you wrote your whole new book on. >> That is right. What no one tells you about money. >> Yeah, it's it's powerful. Your your not

only your story, but I think putting to words how people are feeling during this process, whether it's getting out of debt especially, >> but this it's a whole journey, right? This money journey is very real and it's very emotional >> but also it feels like you are sitting across from a friend who's been through the journey and you give such great words to again how people are feeling and thinking. >> Thank you. Yeah, I wanted to give practical steps because a lot of times like you say the word emotion and it's all like in the clouds and the book is very very practical.

The same way we give you you know seven baby steps of plan for your money. I'm giving you tactical things to get and deal with those emotions. It's not just you're going to feel sad. It's snow.

How do we work through it? Give me the information, Jade. I need steps. And they're there.

>> Yeah. And some of the resolve, too, because your emotions aren't the end all beall to your point. There's something you can do to take that >> to continue. So that's right.

Um I love it. So exciting. So you can pre-order now for $24.99 >> and you can get over $100 in free bonus items, including the audio book, which I appreciate so much.

and live Q&A with Jade Warshaw. Uh so you can go to ramseyolutions.com/store to pre-order it if you're watching on uh YouTube or podcast. We will leave a link below. But again, the book is titled What No One Tells You About Money. All right, let's go to Ian in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, I'm in a pretty interesting uh pretty blessed situation here. I'm a 20-year-old engineering student and uh I started doing affiliate marketing on Tik Tok shop like a year ago and I've gotten

pretty good at it. And last October >> I did $180,000 in sales.

>> Good Ian. Holy crap.

>> It returned about $23,000 in profit. Um

but I realized I you know for this time I kind of realized I hate engineering and I don't really want to do that. Um,

so I definitely don't want to do that for a job, but I have a pretty interesting opportunity to sail around the world on a semester at sea next semester. >> Oh, yes. >> I had friends do this.

>> Yeah. I was just kind of wondering like if I should take the time off and do the semester at sea, enjoy my youth, or if I should continue to scale because honestly, I think I could get to the point where I'm doing a,000 to $2,000 days. >> Wow. Um, is there a way to do both?

No, unfortunately I wouldn't have Wi-Fi on the ship and then also I wouldn't be able to receive packages.

>> Oh. To like fulfill orders and that kind of thing. If you did pause it for five months, does that change the business drastically or can you just pick it right back up?

>> The business is kind of built by momentum. So, it'd be pretty hard to just It wouldn't necessarily be hard because I'm pretty skilled at it, but it would I would definitely like it would take some time to build back up.

>> Sure.

Um, I love I I mean, I'll tell you straight up, I I worked at CE for a long time,

right out of college, and I loved it. It was the best time of my life. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Um, I've been to so many countries. It's it's it is a quite the experience. So, part of me just wants you to have that life.

>> I know you're 20 years old. I feel like you have your whole life >> to earn money. Even though you're you're earning crazy money right now, there's something about there's a Yeah. a specific time in life that you can just never get back.

And there are experience points in life that are so good for you too as a person like to >> to do all and to enjoy. There's a part of me too where I'm like, man, you're 20 years old. >> You're obviously skilled at understanding how things work and to be I mean not only just have an engineering degree, but let alone kind of some sales and understanding marketing. I mean, you know, you didn't just fall into this, you learned it.

And so, you're a smart guy. So, I'm not worried about your earning potential later in life. Um, yeah. >> So, there's something about just doing a semester at C.

Go have fun. You know, you're 20 years old. >> I don't know. I I'm an experienced person, though.

>> Uh, yeah. One of my best friends would be going with me. >> Okay. And do you want to go?

>> Uh, yeah. I think I want to go. Um, but at the same time, I'm also kind of worried about setting up my future and like >> I want to get into real estate in the future and kind of have that be my main thing. So, >> how's Well, you're not going to do you're not do real estate in the next four months. >> H how's Exactly.

>> How's the semester at C being paid for?

>> So, actually, I got a full ride scholarship pretty much. So, >> man, I I'm telling you like you're going

to be you're going to have to convince me that not to go

cuz I am and my all that stuff's going to be waiting for you. And I agree with Rachel. You're smart. I'm not too concerned about what you'll do.

This is a kind of one of those >> I don't want to say I don't want to say once in a lifetime but it is kind of like a once in a lifetime >> for sure. Yeah. >> You know >> to be able to go and travel for five months around the world >> and it's paid for. >> Yes.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. >> I know. I think you're 20 years old and I think you need to just relax, enjoy.

>> Ken would tell him to do it. >> Ken would Ken would Ken would say to go to Taylor Swift concert, too. So that's right. >> Ken would be a yes. Uh, George would probably be a no. I feel like George would be too practical. >> He might. I am. And let me just >> And Dave, who who knows? Throw up the throw up the >> Dave would say yes, but let me just say like percentage-wise, I am a 100% yes.

I'm not like a 7030.

>> Jade says do it, Ian. 100%.

>> What's your What's your ratio? >> My percentage is um

>> I'm going to go 95. >> Wow. Maybe just like a tad less than Jade, but again, from a percentage standpoint, basically we're the same.

>> That's good. Kelly, what's yours?

>> I'm 100%. You should. Okay. Is there

anyone in the audience? We have an audience out here. Anyone in the audience? Everyone's giving a thumbs up. Would you do a semester at C? Oh, we're getting a lot. Oh, wait. There's one guy. >> Uh oh. Maybe one guy in a gray shirt. I don't know. I don't know. He's a little iffy.

>> Okay, we got a lot of yeses. Ian, I'm thinking you I think you need to go.

>> And thank you. When you stop in Paris,

>> you >> enjoy it because I've never been. So give the Eiffel Tower a wave for Rachel.

Please >> eat a whole baguette just in the streets. A whole loaf of bread >> with no regrets. >> Yeah. Go enjoy and go enjoy your time as a 20-year-old with no responsibilities.

And and again, it's incredible that you built up that thing. I mean, >> now again, if you were um 34 with not

going anywhere, >> I know >> affiliate marketing is not going anywhere. like it's the wave of the future and of the now. >> You're going to do great. You're going to do great. All right, let's go to Sonia in Orlando, Florida. Hi, Sonia.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thank you for taking my call. How are you today? >> We're doing great. How can we help you?

>> Awesome. Well, I'm planning on retiring soon. >> Okay. >> And using money that I have in my Fidelity account. Um, I'll have to use that for about a year before my social security um, will kick in as a supplement. >> Okay. >> Um, I have five properties um, including

the one that I live in and I want to

know if it makes sense for me to sell

one of my rental properties to pay off,

which is free and clear. >> Oh, wow. >> Um, to pay off to Yes. um to pay. All of

my properties are free and clear except for the one I live in. >> Oh, yeah. >> And the one my brother lives in that I purchased after my mom passed. I bought her um reverse mortgage.

>> Um >> are those two are those two in addition to the five or they're part of the five?

>> I have a total of five including the one I live in. Yes. >> So I >> If you sold one of the investment properties to pay off your primary home, would you officially pay off your primary home? Would it would it absolutely >> it pay it off free and clear? And then would you have some additional money left over? >> I I have money saved up not only in my

Fidelity account, but I also have money in my bank account. >> How much do you have total? >> Um um total I have in um my bank account I

have $130,000.

Okay. >> Okay. >> So, and uh in retirement I have about a

half a million dollars. Good for you, Sonia. Okay. >> And what's the real estate total?

>> Um I'm sorry. What was the question?

>> What's your real estate total?

>> Um my real estate total is um

I have

I have $1.3 million.

>> Okay. >> Okay. In all the real estate. Gosh, Sonia, you are a baby steps millionaire.

Incredible. So yes, in a heartbeat, I

would sell one of the properties to pay off your primary and be completely debtree and be living off your investments and the other rentals that you know, if there's income coming in from those. Um, but you've done you've done a fabulous job, Sonia. A fabulous job. And your next step, yeah, is just to become completely debtree and then live and give like no one else.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with Jade Warshaw and we're going to Gabrielle in Los Angeles, California. Hi Gabrielle. Welcome to the show.

>> Hello Jade. Hello Rachel. Uh it's Gabriel. Sorry. >> Oh Gabriel. Gosh, I'm sorry. My bad.

Thank you Gabriel for the nories.

>> For the fix. How can we help?

All right. I was calling on behalf of my mom. Um she's 72. She's a widow who

never remarried. U currently she's retired. She's active in her church and

she has a home that's almost paid off.

It doesn't include taxes and insurance.

Um but lately she's been asking me for money. It started off small, but it's starting to escalate. M >> um how can I help her protect her being independent but also set up her finances wisely for the future without becoming dependent on me or my siblings?

>> Yeah, for sure. How old are you?

>> I'm 40. >> You're 40. Okay. And her house is almost paid off. Is she Is she still working?

>> She's not. >> Okay. So, she's retired. Is she Do you know Do you have any idea numbers of what's in her retirement?

Um, she's currently receiving Oh, as far as her retirement savings, she does I believe she's exhausted them. So, she's currently the only income coming in is social security. >> Do you know what that is?

>> Um, I believe it was like 1,100,300 possibly. >> Oh, wow. And do you know >> on the bare minimum? >> Do you know what her mortgage is and what she has left on the mortgage in full? >> So, the mortgage currently outstanding balance is around 100k.

>> Okay. And then the mortgage payment is around I'd say 1450.

>> Oh gosh. Okay. Well, yeah. So, >> how is she paying for everything >> right now? I have my oldest sister who's living with her and I believe they're splitting the cost of the mortgage.

>> Okay. So, they're half and half. Okay.

So, it's that's 700. And then everything else, >> I mean, is she able to pay for is is your sister splitting other bills, do you know, like electricity, water, all of that? >> Yeah. So from what I understand is that my other siblings, she approaches each sibling individually and asks >> Okay. >> for help. >> Um whether it's covering a bill or a few

dollars here and there. >> Yeah. >> And it's for real needs. It's not for Yeah. Is she ablebodied to go to work?

Is she able to work?

>> She is able-bodied. Uh however, she hasn't worked in some time.

>> Yeah. That's so hard. I mean, the reality is she either Yeah. I mean, if she has no if she has no money and all she's getting is social security, it's not enough to your point when taxes are due for property tax. I mean, when she pays off the house, you know, she's going to have to pay for property tax and all that. >> What's the home worth? I'm just curious.

If she were to sell it, if she were to sell it, what would it be worth?

>> Um, conservatively probably about 1.1

million. Um, it's a five bedroomedroom, three bath. Um, as far as

her renting out the room, that's also been thrown around, but >> I hate that for her. >> Require uh me involving myself. Uh,

>> I'm just wondering about everything.

>> Is there like a Go ahead.

>> I'm just wondering cuz my head is that she's 72. She's still fairly young and she's in good health. She could live till 92, right? So, in my mind, I as in

my mind, I look at $1 million that she stands to take away from this and I go, "Okay, we can throw a decent amount and

invest it and start that fund going and then maybe she can buy a condo for, you know, 250 or 300." I mean, you're in Los Angeles. I don't know what's there. What's possible? Can she buy something that's very small just for her and then your sister goes and does her own thing?

because I'm also thinking what happens if the sister moves out and gets married or moves on in life, right? So, there's a lot of variables here. I'd love for her to get some hands on that money, get some of it invested, and get some of it in a smaller, modest living space for

her.

>> Yeah, I think that's that's what I envision for her. >> I just don't know where to start. I think um if I do get the ball rolling,

I'm I'm seeing it through start to finish. Yeah. So, where would I start?

>> Well, I would start with is everybody in Los Angeles, like your whole family, or do you have family that lives in less expensive areas of the country?

>> Uh, no. We're all basically based out of the Los Angeles area. >> Okay. Have you looked at or would you know price ranges of again a very modest

one-bedroom condo that she could purchase >> onebedroom one bath condo purchase outright >> out >> possibly in the area that we're in >> like around Oh outskirts >> well yeah cuz she's got to be able to afford it >> 400 >> 400 okay >> okay so then she could invest 500

>> you know >> I'm not mad at that >> and get that ball rolling and then again if she's able to not pull from those investments and maybe for just 3 years work somewhere just to pay just the rent, you know, just mortgage. I'm sorry, not mortgage. Hopefully, it's paid for. >> Yeah. taxes, taxes, you know, lights,

water, food, um, and and just not touch

that money as long as possible and let it grow and then live off of that because it's either going to be that or

or you guys as a as grown kid adults all

have to say, "Okay, mom's not going to be able to afford this long term. Are we going to be willing to to support her in it?" Um, >> so that would be have to be a conversation that you guys have. >> Will she sell? Do you I mean if if you imagine yourself bringing this up to her, what does that look like?

>> The last time that I brought up the conversation to her, it was emotional for her. For me, it's pretty straightforward. I mean, the way that we're talking right now is the way that I talk with her.

>> And um you know, she's open to it. Um

but again, uh she kind of pushes the the

uh the work on to me. So, >> yeah. >> And so do my siblings and all. What do they kind of look to you, your sisters too, to say like what do you think?

>> Um, >> no. They they don't have an opinion as far as >> what she should do. Um, they feel that, you know, it's our home that we grew up in and that she should hold on to it and she's only got >> such and such ways to go.

>> There's no there's no getting around the fact that this is emotional. Like I'm I'm telling people all the time that plays such a factor in how we manage the

money. But if we look at the numbers, the math is not emotional. She doesn't have any money. She doesn't have anything. And she's healthy. She has a lot of years ahead of her. So she's got to get to the point where the comfort the discomfort of staying the same is more uncomfortable than changing, right?

And that's going to you're start she's going to start to feel the cracks in that when you guys stop supplying the

money if that makes sense. The more that you got and it's your choice but the more that you say okay we'll float it. We'll float it. We'll float it.

Just know that >> it'll float through the Yeah. >> for the next 20 years. Yeah. So you guys have to kind of get on the same page of saying >> we can talk to her about this, but if she doesn't do it, we have to allow her to feel it because when she feels it is when she's going to realize, okay, I have a difficult choice to make.

And just try to support her as much as you can. And it is emotional.

It's your family home. There's nothing comfortable about that. But the solution often lies outside the comfort zone. So

>> So it sounds like my next steps might be like too far, right? It's kind of initiating that conversation with my mom about selling the home possibly. And then as far as with my siblings, it's having that conversation. If we're going to do this, we need to stop enabling her

um and giving her money essentially.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, that I mean that's what I would do. And even pull some options. You can even get in touch with one of our um um >> real estate pros. Yeah. just to look for the area like what's in the areas of um

where you guys are just different options condo-wise and be you know there could be one a mile down so she doesn't have to move major locations right maybe it's just the actual home itself but um run some numbers and kind of get some more facts around it but yeah this is this is difficult [Music]

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Just get it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Alex in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hey, Alex.

Welcome to the show.

Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call. Absolutely. So, I am >> I'm 28 and debtree. I'm looking to buy a tiny house to put on my parents' property without a credit score now. Um,

and a tiny house technically not qualifying for a mortgage. How do I go about getting a loan for it?

>> Well, let's talk about the loan process and then we'll talk about the tiny house on your parents property. So, with the loan process, if you have no credit score, you're just going to have to find a place that does manual underwriting for that. Now, we would recommend Church Hill Mortgage. Um, there are companies

that do that and you just have to check and make sure they'll do it in your area, but it's the same process. You're just going to have to show different trade lines. You're going to have to show your pay subs. You're going to have to show proof of income. Um, if you work for yourself, you're going to have to show your tax returns, that sort of thing. But, for the most part, the process is the same. But how much? But you're saying it doesn't qualify for a mortgage because it's a tiny house.

>> Correct. Yeah. So, if it's under 400 square feet, I'm looking at up to 50 square feet. It doesn't qualify for a mortgage. >> What's the cost of it?

>> Uh, I'm looking at about 40 to 50,000.

>> Oh, well, save up and pay for it, Alex.

>> I'm sorry. >> Save up and pay for it. It's like a car.

>> Right now, I only have about 10,000.

>> Okay. Well, then just wait a little bit.

Yeah. So, just put be putting some money aside. two 3,000 a month and just work

your way up and in probably, you know, 12 18 months, then you can do it.

>> Can I ask the long-term strategy on this, >> Alex? >> Yeah. Um, so I have autism and I can't really live independently. I So, it's pseudoindependent being on my parents property. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. What are you doing for work?

>> Um, I coordinate volunteers for hospice.

>> Cool. Are your parents involved at all, Alex, in this process? Would they be able to help you?

>> Not financially, no, but they've been a great support. >> Okay. Okay, great. How long did it take you to save up the 10,000?

>> Um, I just finished I got debtree in February and then saved up like 6,000

for my e to six month emergency fund

>> and it's so I don't know last 6 months.

>> Okay. Um, yeah, I'm with Rachel. Just keep saving for this. It seems like you've thought through the best way for you to live. And I I like that you've thought through that. I I don't think you need to go into debt for this. And for anybody who is listening to my zero score spiel, that's for >> a mortgage. No, but that's it. That are trying to do a full mortgage on zero credit score. But yeah, save up for it.

I like the 40 to 50,000. Just understand that you that this is yours. like the

resale on this virtually doesn't exist because it's on your parents' property and this is money that you'll likely never get back.

>> Um so understanding that is important I'd say. Yep. >> Yeah. So running the Yeah. I mean so it will um are you able to pick up extra work, Alex?

>> Yeah, I'm looking for a second part-time job. >> Okay, good for you. You sound incredible. I mean the fact I mean you're very ambitious, you're very >> well spoken. You know what you want.

You've been doing the baby steps. You became debtree. you got your fully funded emergency fund. I mean, you're literally doing it all.

The only thing that's going to suck is like the next probably 3 years of saving for this. You know what I mean? You just look at it like um you know, people want to save up for a car. They want to save up for a college education, right?

And these numbers, these are big numbers. Um I'm definitely not downplaying that. It's just so it's going to just take you longer to do it.

guess technically, you know, I guess you could Ramsey ver, you know, go through it to say, well, >> but a mortgage is the one type of debt and this is for a house, but >> figure out a way to do it. >> But the fact that it's but the fact that there is no resale because the one reason we do say a mortgage, not only is because it is the most >> expensive thing that you're ever going to purchase as a home, but also homes go up in value over time and this is more

like a car in a sense where it's going to go down in value. And so getting into

debt, even a personal loan for this um financially would not be wise. So it really would be you putting money aside.

And I mean I don't know about the market in tiny homes. Is there can you can't you can you buy or buy used ones? Can you buy a used one? >> Yeah, that's what I'm looking at. I'm looking at them on like Facebook Marketplace. >> Okay. Okay. So maybe you could even Alex

um I don't know because for some people they may want it off their property.

There may be some urgency to get one off. So maybe you could even negotiate with them and say, "Hey, if I have cash, you know, what's the lowest?" You wouldn't be able to do that today because you don't have that amount. But when you're getting closer to that in, you know, 3 years or something, I mean, you may be able to negotiate.

>> Okay. >> For for a lower price. Yeah, absolutely, Alex. Yep. Thanks for the call. Um, and I again, I think Yeah, I would I just wouldn't do I wouldn't go the debt route. >> I wouldn't either. And because you never know, especially if you're already buying it used. >> Yes. what type of resale would be.

>> Yeah. >> On maybe, you know, selling it in the future. Yeah.

>> All right, let's go to Elijah in Salt Lake City. Hi, Elijah. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, how's it going? Um, I just have a question. I am 22 years old. Um, I'm

currently going to college right now.

Um, I'm almost done with my bachelor's degree. I have only about a year left.

Um, I'm only about 14,000 in student

loan debt, so almost done. But yeah, that's my only debt. no credit card debt, nothing, no car loan, nothing like that. And I guess my question is, well,

I'm looking to go into law enforcement after um after I graduate. I guess my question is, is it worth it to stay for a master's degree if I get an extra like pay incentive for the rest of my career or if I should just once I get my bachelor's degree, take that pay incentive and just start working?

>> Well, what would it cost you to get your masters? How would you pay for it?

>> So, that one would be it would be loans.

Um, but it would be for a total of about master's degree. I' I've been doing my research about 18,000 for the the college that I'd be going to. >> And what's the difference in job that you would get if you just went into the police department with a bachelor's versus a master's?

>> Yeah. So, if I went in with a bachelor's degree, I'd be getting a 3% pay incentive for the rest of my career. If I went in with a master's degree, I'd be getting 5% pay incentive. So, I guess my question is it it would take a long time to repay that like get that money worth

that extra 2% every year, >> but I do really enjoy college. I do want to get married before I leave college and I, you know, enjoy my hobby. So, I just don't know if it's if it's makes financial sense to get a master's degree. >> Not on debt.

>> Not on debt, but I'm wondering if there's a way that you can cash flow it.

Are you are you working at all? And my next question is, do you have to do it right away or can you work on it later while you're in law enforcement and still get the 5% bump?

>> Yeah, that you you can still get the 5% bump. I've just heard from a lot of people that, you know, it's really hard once you're starting this full-time job to go back. >> Yeah. I mean, how much how much are you getting paid like your first year that you're working? >> So, yeah, first year if um with a bachelor's degree would be about uh 90k.

>> Okay. Okay. And then with a master's degree, if I came in first year, it would be about 95. >> Okay. So, that's my thing is that the percentage wise is not big, Elijah. I mean, it's we're talking maybe a $4,000 difference and you could do that in two months with a side gig.

>> You know what I mean? Like, so there's a part of me and I know I have friends in law enforcement and they even move around. They get up to detective or they, you know, move around within it.

Yeah. >> Um, that can change your pay over time as well. So, um, yeah, I think if you

had the money and you wanted to do it, I I don't think I I mean, I don't think I would stop you, but also since you don't

have the money, it's kind of that's a no-go for me personally.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, you would just you would Okay. So, you wouldn't be okay with, you

know, taking out student loans for master's degree? >> No. Okay. No. >> Yeah. I'd get this paid off. And um man,

I wish we had a Ramsay dating app cuz I feel like we had a lot of calls of some ladies that are always single, Elijah, and they're always looking for a man and we could have pointed them your way.

>> I know. I know. No, I I I appreciate the

uh >> the the the proactiveness of love.

>> I do. I do >> with him because I do think that's great. >> I am for getting married young and you know, >> and what he said is true. Like when you're in college, there's people right there to choose from. Once you get out in the world, it's like I gotta work. I got to go out after hours.

>> It's exhausting. You know, >> it's absolutely exhausting. >> You gotta go to an an event, get dressed up. College, it's like you got your pick right there. >> That right there. Oh, Elijah. Yeah. I hope that helps. So, yeah, if there's not the cash, but to Jade's point, if you're able to somehow cash flow or even if you get into a situation where they help pay for half of it, I don't know, um you know, your work, that would be incredible, too. So, uh I hope that helps and yeah, good luck.

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[Music]

So over on the debt-free stage we have

Christopher. Welcome Christopher.

>> Thank you Rachel. It's so nice to be here. >> I'm glad you're here. We have a lobby full of people and always when we see someone standing on the stage with the headphones we know we know that you've been on a debtree journey. That's right Christopher. Okay. So where are you from? Uh >> I currently live in East Providence, Rhode Island. >> Okay. Wonderful. All right. So how much debt have you paid off? >> $63,563.

Nice. >> Oh my gosh. to the tea. What kind of debt was it? >> Uh, mostly it was actually 50/50. Uh, credit card debt and car debt.

>> Okay. Credit cards and cars. >> How long did it take? >> 11 months. >> Wow. You were pedal to the metal. >> Yes, you were. How much were you making during that time? >> Uh, I went from 72,000 to about 80,000,

but with overtime, I'm set to close out about 110 this year.

>> Oh my god. >> I was working a lot. >> You were kicking it.

>> Yeah. Nothing. You just cut everything.

>> That was it. Uh, I actually I even sold the car. It was a brand new 2024. I was a little upside down. So, I did the one thing you say is okay with debt. Get a loan paid. >> And you know, >> so it's not a myth. Works.

>> It worked out. It was tough. I ended up buying an '05 Lexus for about $6,000.

>> Wow. >> And then a few months later, someone drove into it on my street.

>> Oh, shoot. Oh, look at that. It's good looking. How much were you upside down?

Uh, >> I was upside down about 4,000 5,000.

Okay. >> You are the poster child or poster man

adult of what we teach. I love hearing it. >> Oh, thank you. So, when that one got hit, I actually got about $8,000 from the insurance company and I was like, "How much how cheap of a car can I get?" So, I bought another car for uh $2,000.

I'll put the rest of it towards my credit cards. >> Stop it. Look at this. >> That's it right there, >> Christopher. >> And I said, "You know what? That's what I'm driving right now. Let's keep working." >> And it worked. A $2,000 car. How many

miles on it? >> 125,000. >> Man, oh man. >> And was it okay? >> It It runs great. >> Runs great. >> Manual transmission. It'll never die.

>> Let's go. LET'S GO. LET'S GO.

>> I WISH YOU would be in the passenger seat of every 25-year-old guy in America. Just be like, "Listen, y'all are always in the passenger seat." That That's how I learned. I'm actually a truck driver and I was listening to the Ramsey Show 12 hours a day, five or six days a week. That's how you do it.

>> And there were so many little pieces that were put together that made me realize this whole debt thing is really ridiculous. Why am I doing this to myself? >> Yes. >> So, yeah.

Wow. >> I'm glad you all do what you do and you don't regret a thing. >> Not one bit. >> So amazing.

Okay.

Yeah. What was it for you that you said, "Okay, I'm done. I'm gonna just completely change everything I've been doing. I have a brand new car.

I have some credit card debt and I'm going to just I'm going to change it." >> Yeah. Well, like I said, I've listened constantly. There were two things that stuck out in my mind. Um, I've been working 70 hours a week plus since I was 18 years old.

>> I heard Dr. John Deloney say one time very exasperated. You know, working 70 hours a week isn't sustainable. Baby steps one through three are meant to be intense.

After that, four, five, and six are supposed to be intentional. I was like, maybe that's why I feel so burnt out. 70 hours a week for 16 years, it's a lot. >> Yeah.

>> So, I said, you know what, that's the time.

>> I was like, yeah, I've been playing that for a long time. maybe I should stop doing that. So, it was time to just get it done. >> What was the hardest part? I want to know like it's one thing to hear it and then when you start doing it and you feel like the discomfort of it, what was the main like emotion that was holding you back? >> I would say swallowing my pride.

>> Uh like I said, I've been working very hard my whole life and to have to get rid of a brand new car that I really enjoyed. >> That was your gift to yourself.

>> Yeah. I just didn't need it. It wasn't a necessity. M >> I hear everyone say on here, "Oh, I had to go buy a new car." No, you didn't.

>> Save up for a couple weeks. Buy a clunker like that one. >> Man, you need to be behind this desk.

>> Let me know. >> You know, Christopher, for real, though, the that I think that's a great point.

The ego hates going backwards.

Absolutely. So it does it takes a level of humility to say what I was presenting to the world >> what I'm going to present actually from a mathematical standpoint is better but from a from a from a presentation image perspective it looks less >> right >> and so the ego doesn't like it very very difficult and so the fact that people that do it you know are serious and I think a level of maturity and humility that's really really amazing okay so have you turned down the hours of working 70 >> I have so far I'm planning on picking it back probably in March.

Uh I don't like driving in the snow up north.

Let's bring it down to 40 or 50. And >> yes, >> in the summertime, I I'll make some more money. And uh I'm I'm still working on baby step three. Once baby step four comes, I'll be good. >> Yeah. And you can upgrade from the $2,000 car. >> Absolutely. >> Yes. >> Make some changes. Yeah. >> Okay. Have you been able to feel a difference since you >> huge difference? A couple years ago, I uh found out I had a panic disorder. So I have a little bit of anxiety. Mhm.

>> I think most of it was from my debt.

>> At that time, before I found the Ramsay Show, I had a house that was $400,000.

So, it was a lot that I had that just I didn't need. >> I ended up selling the house long before I found the Ramsey Show. And >> now it's just I feel a weight lifted off my chest and I can just breathe. I sleep better at night. >> Simplicity. >> That's it. >> That's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Did you have some cheerleaders uh in your corner during college? >> Absolutely. My parents, Bob and Simone.

Um, all my friends up north, all my friends down here. I used to live in Clarksville for a while. Oh, >> yeah. >> So, I'm here visiting them and I figured, hey, come do a debtree scream.

>> Amazing. >> Yeah. At one point, I had 42 credit cards. >> Holy smokes. >> I was playing that game, building that credit score. >> Because, you know, I've heard Dave say it many times. Why do you get a credit card? To build your credit score. Why do you build your credit score? To get more debt. Why do you get more debt? To build your credit score. So, I was like, that's that's just foolish. I'm done.

>> Done. >> I closed every single account. Paid I had a balance on five. One was around 3,800, one was 4,000. The other, the last three were about 8,000, give or take a few hundred. From that point, I went to the avalanche method because they were so close. I was like, I'll pay off the one that's at 28%. These two have zero. We'll save a little bit.

>> Fine. So, once you save the 3 to 6 months, what are you going to do to celebrate? Because you, my friend, deserve celebration. >> I am going to continue saving to upgrade that hunk of junk. >> And what And what do you got your eye on? You know, the the car I sold was a 2024 Subaru Cross Trek.

>> My rental that I got here uh is an Outback, a Subaru Outback, and it's a lot more spacious. I kind of like that.

>> So, probably something like that or a Forester, anything. An SUV with all-wheel drive. >> Yes. Cuz you live in the snow. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Okay. Great. Okay. So, I do I'm going back to the 40. Was it 42?

>> 42. Yep. >> Okay. Credit cards. What was the one that you were like you could not wait to close out that you were like, I just >> Discover. >> Discover. I took I took that and I went snip snip.

>> Oh my gosh. Wow. So great.

>> You're a rock star, >> Christopher. Well done. Well done. Okay.

What would you say to someone who is listening? Maybe they're a Christopher.

Maybe they've just found the show and they're thinking >> what like gosh, I do have credit cards.

I have car loans. What would you say to them if they feel like there's no way I could I could do that? >> I would say just do it. What do you have to lose? Only your debt. You're just going to lose your debt. That's the worst case scenario. If you stop going into debt, you'll be good. Try your hardest. It's going to be hard. Harder for some, you know, easier for others.

And u just just keep doing it. If you keep pushing and keep pushing, >> struggle now so you can have a better life later. >> Yeah. >> Yes.

Talk about talk quickly about the adaptation. You took your car >> down to the dealership and got rid of it. >> That's right. >> How quickly did you adapt?

Like how quickly did you turn that corner from, oh, wo is me to, I'm fine with this $2,000 car? >> Pretty quickly. I I was I was upset like kind of a little bit, but I was uh my first car was a 95 uh Chevy pickup truck, >> and I loved it. So, I like older vehicles.

It's just now things are so new. They're safer. There's better features. So, you like the new stuff, too.

can fix anything on it. >> So, I don't need to take it to a mechanic. If something goes wrong, I just take it apart, replace a part, and >> Good point. You figure it out.

Figure it out. Wow. Well, Christopher, you've made our day. Absolutely.

I mean, no, for real. You >> you are the reason we do this. That's right. And you're living proof that it happens.

You know what I mean? And um Yeah. So whether Yeah. single, married, male, fe, whoever you are out there, this is the guy.

>> It's proof that you just can say, "If I just believe that I can do it and I start making changes, I can." >> That's right. Just do it. >> I can do it. Incredible.

All right. You ready, Christopher? >> I am. >> All right.

So, we got Christopher from Rhode Island.

>> $3 cars and credit cards in 11 months,

making 72 to 80 with overtime with

$110,000 a year. All right, Christopher, let's hear your debtree scream. >> 3 2 1 I'm debtree.

>> Oh, ladies and gentlemen, that's how it's done. That is how it's done. The poster man [Music]

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>> All righty. Today's question comes from Leila in Maine. She says, "When my

boyfriend sold his house and moved into mine, we agreed that he can buy into my house after a few years, which is now.

We plan on getting married at some point, but we're in no rush. He's giving me $75,000 to be part owner of the

house. What should I do with this money?

I already have an emergency fund and my only debt is $220,000 on a mortgage,

which will now be only half of my debt and about $5,000 on a 2% interest car loan. Should I put it all into a mutual fund, load up my IRA, or some mix of the

two? Um, I'm struggling, Ila, because you're asking one question, but I need to answer a different question than the one you're asking. Um, I would give

I would do one of two things. A here's my problem with the whole thing is the fact that you're not married in this house and you're exchanging money in a way and property in a way that married people do >> and really not even the way that married people do. It's all messed up. But um because you're not married, there's no protections here for you.

And the more that you co-mingle money into this, it's just going to make it more of a messy process. If for some reason this doesn't go down the path of marriage like you think because to your own point there's not even a rush to get married. So this is getting very messy very fast.

yeah >> until we get married. And if he wants to pay rent >> or pay something for living in your house because essentially that's what's happening. He's got to be okay with that because there doesn't need to be a level of commitment by buying into a a house if there's not a commitment to the relationship. >> Yes.

Well, and I'm assuming if he's going to be giving her this amount of money, does he want to be on the title like be part owner even legally? And that means you're then sharing a legal rights of a home with someone you're not married to. And as quickly as he says, "I love you today is as quick as you could fall out of love," he falls out of love. And again, because you're not married, there's zero protection.

He could just walk out the door and but now you guys are going to have to refinance a house to get his name off of it because you meet someone else and want to get married to this other person and got your ex-boyfriend on. It just turns into a mess. So, no. I mean, I wouldn't accept it.

I'm I'm with you, Jade. Um because again, I think I'm assuming by accepting this amount of money, he's going to want own legal ownership of the home to be put on some, you know, on the title. So, um so yeah, it's a it's a no for me.

too, you can do that. It just gets really messy really fast. And from a relational level, I will tell you >> studies are coming out more and more as well to show that actually divorce rates are much lower if you don't live together before. >> That's right. That's right. and the quality of marriage and the quality of relationship and everything is different when you're not just playing house and then deciding to finally commit. You actually go through the stages which is more old school but it's showing more and more from a relational standpoint.

It's more stable. So, >> and again that's not what you asked Ila but uh I'm with Jade. I wouldn't I wouldn't accept it. >> Yeah. And therefore I'm not going to answer the question you asked.

>> It's all love Ila. It's all love.

>> All right. Let's go to Jay in Atlanta,

Georgia. Hi Jay, welcome.

>> Hey, uh hello Miss Jade and Missil.

>> Well, hello Mr. Jay. How can we help today? >> Uh yes, I just had a question about investing in the Roth versus the uh

traditional 401k. Um, and only because

like I from my experience, uh, I've

invested in a 401k that for about a year

and, uh, it was about like $1,200 in

there, um, a couple of months ago, but also I had ended up losing my job, so I

just went ahead and sold it, and I got

back half. So, I was trying to see what

was different. So normally, yes. Okay.

So what we would normally say is if you leave a job, you want to roll over your 401k just to a traditional IRA. So

you're keeping the investments, you're just moving it out of the company's 401k. >> Um versus basically what Yeah. What you said, you just sold it. Yeah. And if it and if the market was kind of low at the time, you know, you may not have >> gotten, you know, fully what it was and probably paid some taxes and all of it.

So >> because it was retirement funds.

>> Yes. Yeah. So, um, yeah, you did get hit hard with some penalties. So, our rule of thumb with investing is did your 401k

at your previous employer, did it have a match built in? >> Uh, yes. It had about a 4% match.

>> 4% match. Okay, perfect. Do you have a new job now with a 401k currently?

>> Yes. Um, I have a a new job and they

actually match up to 30%.

>> Wow, that's great. That's great.

>> Okay, perfect. And is this one a Roth?

You asked about Roth versus traditional.

Is it a Roth 401k on this one?

>> Um I think so. Uh I that's another

thing. I'm not really sure the difference. And you know I just picked one. >> Yeah.

Uh >> if you have the choice, if there's if they're telling you you have the choice and I would ask I would make sure to get with HR and ask that question. I would select a Roth option because in that way you're paying the taxes on the money now so that when you go to retire all it's all tax-free growth which is great for you. So I would always select that.

The biggest question is if you're ready to be investing yet at this point.

>> So can you tell us a little bit about like do you have any debt? Do you own or rent your house? Tell us about that.

>> Yes. So I rent right now um my rent is

about 700 and other than that I have

child support that's about $400. Uh that

can vary >> and then my student loan repayment is

about $60 a month. Uh I put a extra 60

with it so it's about 120.

>> What's the whole what's the whole lump of debt? Uh, I just, um, well, so I found you guys about a year ago and I paid some stuff off, so I just got about 9.7K

left. I paid off about >> I started at 22. So, >> okay. Way to go. >> Nice, J. >> Anything else? Credit cards or cars?

>> Oh, yes. My groceries uh are about 200

and so >> uh yeah, that's it. >> No credit cards, no car note? No, I I

did open up a credit card last year and then I found you guys a month later and closed it. So, >> look at that. Do you have any money saved, Jade Jay?

>> Uh, yes. I have about 2.5 saved. Um, the

only thing is that's earmarked for a car right now. Um, I I work for a company and we we get company vehicles, so that comes out of my check, but um so I'm saving that 2.5 to just get another car

right now. car. Oh, because you've only been driving the company car, >> right? For the past year. Okay.

>> Yeah. So, what I would probably do, Jay, is just pause all retirement and work to

to throw as much money at this $9,700 that you have left in debt and then start working to bump up that emergency funds. Um, you know, you have 2500 in it. I know it's earmarked for a car. Um, but I would just I would get three month and you don't have a ton of um expenses monthto-month, which is great.

So, you could be on the three-month side. Um, that could be your baby step three. And then we can start looking at retirement, which will be 15% of your income into retirement. So, so like Jade said at the beginning of the call, the Roth, >> this is a picture I have.

This is my dad's teaching from the old old FPU, but it's the little coat. Do you remember this? He had like different jars like one was a IRA, one was a 401k, and then there's like a little coat that he put over each one. He was like the coat is the Roth.

So if you so so if your investment has a WTH around it that means you have funded those retirement accounts after you've paid taxes on your income. So you pay all your taxes and then after tax income then goes into those.

that money is coming out before you pay taxes on your income. And because of that the government has to tax you on that because they did not tax you earlier on your income. And then they tax you on all the growth. And if you know anything about compound interest, your investments will grow, grow, grow.

So Roth is amazing. Not everyone offers a Roth 401k, but if they offer it, like Jade said, take it and open up a Roth IRA and be putting 15% of your income into that. But that won't probably be for another two years, Jay, or year and a half after you pay off this debt and get a fully funded emergency fund. Um, but I'm so glad that you like you picked up the show and you actually are making progress. You paid off so much debt already, Jay. So just keep at it. You're doing incredible.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with Jade Warshaw and we are

taking your calls at88255225

and up next we have Les in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi Les, welcome to the show. >> Hi. >> Hi. What a pleasure to take speak with you. >> Oh well, thanks for calling in Les. How can we help today?

My question is, is there any rule of

thumb or percentage of how much of our assets we could have tied up in our home

versus cash? Our current situation is

I'm 72, my wife is 69.

Um, we still have income from our

business of 300,000 a year, but that will slowly curtail as

we enter more of a semi-retirement

mode.

But we're currently uh 2.5 million uh

net worth, 2 million cash, half million uh in the

home. Mhm. >> We were looking at a potential purchase

or upgrading or wouldn't this be nice in

a home. We're a little bit spoiled.

We've had two occasions where we've lived on the water on a lake.

>> Mhm. >> In our town, we have a small They call it a mountain, but it it it's a small mountain that is overlooking >> Yeah.

But it it has a limited number of of um

home sites. It's quite old.

A lot of the homes are quite old up there of about 120 overlooking the city

with mountain ranges in the west. And >> so you're wanting to upgrade upgrade from the 500,000 >> or second home. Second or upgrade?

>> No. No, it would be primary home.

>> Okay. What's it going to cost >> to get that house in the on the big hill? >> Well, if if if it if it doesn't stay

within 1 million or 1.1, then the deals

off the table. But then that would be a

shift of we'd have a million in the house and one and a half million in cash.

>> How long will you continue to draw the 300,000 and how quickly do you think it'll like what will be the rate of replenishment?

I would based on my predict projections

it it won't completely end but I

projected that in five it'd be 5 years before we'd even have to start drawing off of any

interest or anything in our investments.

>> Oh, five years. Okay, that's great. And in the meantime, will you continue to invest from the 300,000? Please say yes.

>> Oh. Oh, heavens yes.

>> I Yeah. >> Here's here's brief background story.

After um bankruptcy and foreclosure at age 57, my

wife's 54. We walked into a financial peace university class. Nothing to our

name. $320,000 in debt. Mhm.

>> Exactly 10 years almost to the day. We

said, well, we when Dave showed us the

path, we said, we're committing to this.

We're doing this almost 10 years.

Exactly. >> Wow. >> Uh we hit the first million, the next

five years, the second million. We're on track that the third million would be in three years.

>> Unbelievable. So >> gosh, less well done you guys. That's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Yeah.

So >> I am. >> Do you guys have >> grateful to you folks?

>> Oh well, no less. I mean, you're the one that did it. I mean, seriously. And what' you say? 20 years ago.

>> Uh, it'd be 16.

>> 16 years ago. Okay. Yeah.

>> Incredible. Yeah. So, I think from from the rough math, Yeah. if you guys are able to, you know, be able to get this

300,000 and I know you have to live on some of it, but yeah, in four years that could easily become another million >> um to throw in. So, I think if you guys keep it around that million dollar mark from just the rough math of even if you just didn't even add the other million, but you had the two million, you know, and if you're living off 6% or whatever it may be, I think you're you're going to be you guys will be totally fine. Uh do you have a good financial planner?

Uh, yes. I I kind of hesitate because

I've been kicking around just doing it myself, but >> Sure. Yes. >> No, that's fair. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think Yeah, I think sitting down and kind of running out all the numbers with someone because if you're 72 and in good health, I mean, you could live another 20 years.

But I think Jay, did you um uh >> Yeah, I was just looking through it. I mean, you're you should be putting away at least 3,750 a month. Is that does that feel about right for you?

Uh yeah, currently >> or more.

>> We're putting away 150,000 a year.

>> Okay, great. And so you have to consider Yeah. lump sum is going to double every seven years. So let's say, like you said, it's at least 5 years that you'll continue to get that $300,000 income. So >> you know, it's going to incrementally reduce. >> Reduce. Okay. >> But what's it cost to what's it cost to run your household? You've got a lot of margin. Correct.

>> Right. Current current to run the household is 7,000, but >> yes, this points uh 2,800 of that a month is designated

to vacations.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. Exactly. So, you've got plenty of margin. >> Not Yeah, that >> my point is you should do this. That's my point is you're going to have plenty of money. Um you guys have done well.

You've got a great income. It's going to dwindle, but it's still going to be a really great income for the next 5 years even as it continues to slowly go down.

Um I'm okay with the you're you're

doubling in house. Um and I I'm okay with it, Rachel. I'm I'm >> Yeah, I mean I think the million you have 500,000 in your primary home now.

It's just pulling out another 500,000 to upgrade to a million dollar home. And then you guys will have that 2 million in cash. Yeah. and then you'll be putting some money away continually and then I think from there yeah I mean I think you got a great nest egg >> and yeah I think you'd be totally fine

>> but again I think running all scenarios with somebody who's looking at the market looking at rates looking at how aggressive your funds are um how not

aggressive they're putting I mean whatever that you're invested in I would be running some long-term numbers um

because you know there is the the percentage of what you want to withdraw.

>> That makes sense from a historical perspective of what the market makes, right? So like of course one year, you know, or last year it was like 23% or something crazy. >> It was crazy. Yes.

>> Wild. Um and then some years it's going to do 8%. Right. So so to be able to find that happy medium and I know people have different percentages of their opinion.

Uh financial planners will be more conservative which is great. Uh I think Dave is a little aggressive when he says that you can pull out. He's like it's fine. The market's a big fine right.

Um, yeah, but be running those long numbers long term for you and your wife over the next, you know, map out 20 years and just see see what it brings you. But yeah, you should be you should be totally fine less. I think you're being very conservative.

when you start actually pulling some money from retirement of how much you actually need to pull when you don't have to pull a mortgage or rent. Like, man, that saves you a ton. That's right.

>> So, Les, well done. You and your sweet wife, I mean, 16 years ago, decided to change the game on what you guys do with your money, and it just proves that money is a long-term marathon, you guys.

But it works. If you do the right stuff over and over again, it works.

[Music]

[Music]

Well, you don't have to wait for Black Friday to get our Black Friday deals.

The sale is happening right now. It includes $12 best-selling hardcover books, $12 questions for humans decks,

uh, it's $6.99 audio books and ebooks, which is what I'm loving these days. >> Yes, indeed. >> Uh, $15 assessments and more. Just go to ramseyolutions.com/store, or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, we will leave a link in the description. All right, let's go to Kim in Salt Lake City. Hi, Kim. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, thanks for having me.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> I'm left a single mom unemployed after a divorce after 26

years of marriage. >> Oh. >> Uh sadly I thought I'd be over it in two years, but doesn't happen always that easy, I guess, for some people. So, >> yeah, >> I'm at the stage where it's time

that my divorce decree claims I need to either get um my home in my own name

or sell it. >> Okay. >> Uh I have all the equity. I took that as alimony because I didn't want to disrupt I had seven children living at home at the time of the divorce.

>> Okay. And I I have two. I rented my

basement immediately like the week my divorce was final.

>> I put up a wall, rented the basement.

Um went, I'm going to make this happen. And now two years have passed and I'm trying to figure out how h I'm I feel like I'm

making baby steps, but I don't know how to make the big steps, I guess, or the big decisions.

>> Yeah, for sure. Um, how much equity is in the house, Kim?

So, it's an acre um in horse land

and

um uh property value quoted as 1.4 million.

I have to give a little off I'm sure for

the state of part of the back acreage and >> Okay. So, for 1.4 million, how much do you have left on the loan?

Um 450,000.

>> 450. Okay. And how much is the mortgage payment a month?

>> I pay 2880.

>> Okay.

>> How have you been handling that 2880 with with no income?

>> A divorce. Yeah. So we scheduled we we

mediated November of 23.

divorce was final January of 24 so that he could claim us on his taxes, which I just realized, oh, no

wonder that's going to affect my uh

college, my FAFSA anyway, right now. But that's a side note. The point is

I the minute I had an inkling he was

making decisions different than

for our family because we he used to have he owns a business that's worth a

few million and I chose to just walk

away and take equity in the home so I didn't have to disrupt my children.

>> Sure. How have you been paying for this m mortgage currently? Because this has happened and you've been living. >> I've been saving. I had I had um

I had about

$50,000 in savings.

>> Okay. So, you've just been pulling it out of there like >> and yeah, like somehow 400,000 turned into 40,000 what he could give me at divorce time and I said fine.

So he you were given 400,000. Did I hear

that right? >> No, we had that in the bank. He bought an Aston Martin. >> Understood. Um >> Anyway, we won't go into that part.

>> So you've been you had 50,000 in savings and you've been kind of just pulling it out every month to live and now it's gone. >> I have food storage. Yes. I sold jet skis. I sold my truck because I don't I

don't have any debt besides my home.

Never did. So, but my um so I'm living

off my truck payment right now. I'm going to accounting school and I'm um online. >> Okay, good. >> And I did get student loans. Um >> Oh, when will you be done with accounting school and able to work?

>> I have like a year. That's the problem.

I really think it's a self-esteem issue.

>> Well, have you >> he my unemployment? Yeah, >> I didn't get unemployment and he anyway

I'm it destroyed me. I I really I know

I'm smart. I can do it >> and you can.

>> And I figured out how to do all the accounting for his business for him.

And I was just a stay-at-home mom and I could have gotten the alimony of a stay-at-home mom. But then, oh, wait.

When you work for your for four years,

you're an able-bodied worker.

>> So, Whoops. >> Yeah. I want you Have you been in any counseling, Kim? >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. I want you to continue with that because you're right. This is this is huge. >> Yeah. And Kim, what are are your kids all in school?

>> Well, yes.

>> Yeah. You're high schooler, freshman and senior. >> Perfect. Okay, great.

Because I was going to say I think it would just be good for you, Kim, to your point about self-esteem. There's something about going through the actions after something that's just horrific. I mean, I can't imagine. I think what you've walked through is so difficult.

It's so hard. I think it would I think it would take away anyone's self-esteem. I mean, like it just >> it's horrible. But I think there's something to be said about getting up in the morning, >> putting on an outfit, going and interacting with other people, and then coming home.

And and that may even be a receptionist at an accounting firm or something. You know what I mean? Like if there's a way to get your foot in the door just in that industry since you're going to school for it and make some connections, that's going to be really helpful, right? Um, but but to do anything, Kim, I mean, honestly, I think it would just be really healthy for you to get out of the house, earn some money, be around people >> and you're going to have to because you are running out of money.

So, there is the self-esteem issue of that it's good for you to do this and get some wins under your belt, but you also you're going to have to do this from a financial standpoint if you want to keep the house. Now, that's going to be a big question um to figure out if you can sustain this house. And and so you need to know, okay, a year from now, here's what I have to make full-time as an accountant starting out to be able to support this this mortgage payment, which you're going to need to make.

mean, gosh. Yeah. I mean, it's basically >> I put it off because I had a child with

anxiety that really struggled like

>> every day for 8th grade. We ended up doing like we're doing two periods a day. >> But you're okay. Are you in a place now though? I want to I know there's a lot that happened then, but I really want to focus on now.

>> Um, exactly.

>> And here's why. Let me tell you why.

Because here's why.

>> If you sell this house and you take a million dollars from it, I'm afraid that you'll just burn through that and not

work. And I don't want that for you.

>> And yeah, that's what I'm afraid, too.

That's exactly Thanks for putting that into words, >> you know. And so that's why I want you to take Rachel's advice. And today, this week, that be your number one priority is I'm going to look for receptionist jobs. And if I can't find a receptionist job, I'm going to look for another job answering phones.

And if I can't find that, I'm going to pick anything. Take anything. Local church. If there's a local church even to go get plugged into and work for them.

>> Um because Kim, to Jade's point, is so good because Kim goes with Kim. And if Kim stays the same and you're staying consistent and you get a million dollars in your lap, you continue to be Kim with a million dollars.

So, if we can get a better version, a healthier version of Kim and then even you make the call in a year or two to sell the house. Well, we have hardworking up and out of Kim who's, you

know what I mean, self- sustaining with a million dollars, which means you're going to be making really clear decisions when it comes to money. I think you still are in that fog which again I do not fault you for. I think when you walk through a divorce that grief is horrific and and having seven

kids that you're still thinking about.

Um I mean all of it it's very very difficult. So the fact that you're still grieving I would not >> I would not shame you for that and I don't think you need to be shamed you know shaming yourself. I think give yourself the freedom >> to still feel and experience what you're experiencing, but we also have to start making some moves to create a positivity

around us. And I think part of that is getting some quick wins. And I really do think there's a self-esteem boost when you earn and you do something and there's a cause and effect and you know I can do this cuz you can kill. You really, really can. So we are cheering you on. If you'll hold on the line, Christian will pick up and we're going to give you every dollar for a year to help you get this budget crunching when you start earning this income to figure out how to stay on track.

[Music]

[Music]

Well, it's not every day, Jade. We get two debtree screams.

>> What? >> In one show. And so, we are so excited that on the stage in the lobby on the debtree scream stage is Steve and Tanya.

Welcome you guys. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Rael. >> Absolutely. Okay. Where are you guys from? >> We are from Piedmont, Alabama, which is about an hour north of Birmingham.

>> Okay. So, close to Birmingham, Alabama.

Yes. >> Okay. So, how much debt have you guys paid off? >> 279,000.

>> Oh my gosh. Okay. And how long did that take you?

>> 6 years, 10 months, and 27 days.

>> 27 days. Yes. And making what kind of

income during that time?

>> Um, when we started it was um 135.

>> Uhhuh. Uh we finished up at about 252,000. >> Wow. Very nice.

>> And what kind of debt was the 249,000?

>> Well, we had about 79,000. My house.

>> Yes. We had about 61 in consumer debt

like tractor, truck, little bit of credit card, and the rest was our house.

>> I KNOW. I KNOW YOU DID. OH, YOU paid off

the house. >> We did. Everything completely debtree in

six years, you guys. Yes. Wow.

>> Incredible. I mean, just below the sevenyear mark. You guys did great. You guys really Yeah. >> Amazing. You guys, congratulations.

Okay, so what happened six years ago to make you think we want to go on this crazy journey and pay off our house, >> right? >> Well, we actually got married um seven

years ago, I seven and a half years ago.

>> And so we were about to embark upon

building this house. And so, um, and we

had kind of I had gone to FPU years ago.

I kind of dabbled in the baby steps, but never really was aligned in that in that

marriage and just kind of struggled the whole way through it. When we got together, um, we just committed from day one that this is what we're going to do.

>> Oh, yeah. Lock st.

>> She says, "We're doing it." >> Yeah, >> we're doing it. Picture >> that. Oh, it's so good. Is that when y'all paid it off?

That was that the picture of when you did your last mortgage payment? >> Oh, I think they throw it back up there. So, >> so good. Okay, so uh so when you guys got married, you both did you guys talk about it a lot before you guys tied the knot?

Money in general because I do feel like people get nervous and if it's a second marriage too, right? We hear that a lot that people, oh gosh, I don't know if I kind of want to keep it over my stuff over here, >> his over there. How did you guys work that out?

we're going to do this. We're going to do this together no matter what. Yes.

You know, because I know in my past and in his, you know, we you know, we weren't on the same page. So, we definitely talked about faith, finances,

>> um family. So, >> the the three Fs you get. That's what you get. >> I love it. Well done, you guys. Okay.

So, what was what was the hardest part of all of this?

>> Um I think the hardest part is just choosing to live different. you know, everyone around you is doing all the things. Um, eating out, you know, doing

all the things. Like, we ate out on Tuesday night when tacos were $125.

>> That's the only time we ever ate out.

Yeah. >> You know, we packed our lunch every day.

Um, we bought our clothes at thrift stores and on eBay.

>> We sold things we didn't use. We We just We just chose to live differently. >> Did anybody ask questions? Like was it obvious to people around you like you're doing something different or were you kind of flying under the radar? No, I talked about it a lot. They were they were sick of hearing it. I know um my grown children were sick of hearing it.

My friends, my co-workers, I mean I just kept we kept laser focused and that's all that I thought about. That's and I tell you what really turned it around. We sat and did our written budget. We do the old school papers, the written budget.

>> And I asked Steve, I said, "Have you ever really tithed 10%? like, "Have you went all in?" And he's like, >> "No." And I was like, "We're doing it." And we did it. And when I tell you, promotions rolled in and raises. And I mean, it just >> oh my gosh, >> it just all came together.

I mean, we we were obedient. >> Yeah. >> Uh we were very disciplined, like you said. We we packed our lunch every day >> and um Yeah.

I'm so I'm so sick of Tupperware. >> Yeah. That's right. I know.

Well, what's funny? I was going to ask you guys, we always talk about baby steps one through three is intense. >> Yes. And then four through seven or four through six is kind of, you know, we say intentional, but it doesn't sound like you guys let up very much to pay off the house.

>> No, we we actually wound up um at the end we were paying $5,500 a month every

month on the house. >> Wow. Everything. We we didn't we didn't

let up once once we got I mean once we got um the savings in place then every spare dollar went to the house >> went to the house. >> So then I want to ask you the question that I hear all the time which is I mean six and a half years six years is a long time. How what how did you stay motivated? Like what was the thing that kept you going with that?

I mean $5,500 a month is a lot. >> That's a lot. It was little wins.

Um, I sold things. I s people were sick of me on Facebook.

>> I I'm going to find the money to do this. >> Tanya's like, there's Tanya again selling something. >> I would buy decor and just flip it. But we followed the baby steps.

>> I love that. >> Just to the tea. Yes.

>> And I was kind of like you, Jade. Like I always heard, you know, we ain't got no money. I mean, I was raised, you know, paycheck to paycheck. and and I literally changed my family tree and I'm leaving a legacy to we're leaving a legacy to our >> children's children. >> Yes. Incredible.

>> Wow. That decision to Yeah. to live differently. What you were saying, Steph, I'm like, it's just it's so powerful. So powerful.

>> Um Okay. So, what would you tell a couple that's listening and maybe they're in your stage of life, right?

And they are have they've walked a similar story to you guys and they're thinking, "Oh gosh, but there's no way.

Like, I don't know. I I I don't think we can change. I don't know if we can do something different." What what encouragement or motivation would you give them to say, "Yes, you can do something that is totally different than maybe how you what you ever done with money and you could even have a paidoff house." >> Well, for me, I mean, I I mean, I basically started over when I was 55 years old and you know, so my message is that it's not too late. >> Yes.

>> You know, you can you can turn things around. You know, I was not in a position >> where I mean where I wanted to be. And I mean back to the motivation question. I mean my motivation was that I want to retire before I'm 65, you know.

Good. >> And so >> yeah, mine was um you know, like I said,

I just wanted to do something completely different than than how I was raised or how my family I I wanted to make sure, you know, my children >> have the things that they needed and they see me as an example and um and also grandchildren, you know, and I just um Yeah. Yeah. I just refused to stay

the same. >> That's right. So, how are you going to celebrate? What's the big thing that you guys are going to do to put a big bow on this? >> Well, when I turned 50, he took me to Hawaii. So, we have, you know, once we were out of debt, >> we we saved and paid cash and um so we've we've done some trips. We love to travel. >> Um generosity is huge.

>> Yeah, that was us in Montana. >> So, good. Um, we're um, generosity is

huge and just enjoy and travel and

>> beautiful, >> you know, live like no one else.

>> I hope youall enjoy a Nashville night tonight. I hope y'all I hope y'all get to celebrate doing the Step Free Scream because it's incredible. And your your story is so inspiring to so many people that Yeah. anyone can do it. You know, it's just like if you just got to believe and you got to stay consistent.

Like that's what I heard too, which is incredible. >> All right, you guys. Are you ready?

We've got uh we got Steve, Tanya from right outside of Birmingham. Paid off $279,000 which includes their house and they did it in 6 years, 10 months, and 27 days

making 135 to 250. All right, you guys

count it down. Let's hear your big debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

[Music] >> Oh my gosh. So good. Do you know what I love about that is, you know, they both said they had been married before, second marriages, >> and there is and and Steve said, you know, I had to start over at 55.

>> Mhm. >> And there's just something about this redemption that that you get to it's a second chance. There is something that I can still change what I've done. And because of that, still their grown kids are watching them.

>> That's right. Um, and then their children's children, you know, just like what Tanya was saying, there's just something beautiful about that legacy that even when when hardship happens and occurs, which it has in all of our stories, >> but you can still change something. And that redemption is so beautiful for what they've done. Such encouragement and so excited for them.

Well done.

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 14:23.

In all toil there is profit, but mere

talk tends only to poverty. And Lander

said, "No one, nobody ever drowned in

his own sweat." >> Oh boy. >> Well, what a picture that is. But I guess it's true. I guess it's true. Work hard, people. Work hard. Dramatic.

>> The grit. The grit is good.

>> All right, let's go to Lisa in Charlottes. Hi Lisa, welcome to the show. >> Thank you. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, my husband and I, we have between our Roth um IRA and our 401k, he has

535,000 and I have 275,000 plus 200 um in a CD.

>> Okay. And I think we messed up during the pandemic when um at the beginning when it took like a big dive. I got nervous because um I'm on disability

right now. I got I have lupus back.

>> Okay. >> And so we're not contributing to our um

IRA anymore. And so what we I did is I

moved everything. I kept it in the Roth IRA and mutual funds, but I took it out of the stock market. So, it's kind of been sitting there earning a little uh less interest. So, I'm wondering if we

messed up for retirement or if we should move it back into the stock market at our age or what we should do.

>> So, the 535 and the 275 are no longer invested.

>> They are, but not in the stock market.

They're more in a secure. I put them in um CDs, so four and fiveyear CDs. So,

they're earning uh four and 5% interest.

>> Oh, yeah.

Okay. So, not to just lay it on, Lisa,

but did you make a mistake? The answer would be yes, because I just want to use this as a teaching example that what you did, you know, is pretty normal. People do freak out if they start to see a dip in the market. They're like, "Oh, dear God." And they pull their money out or they put it somewhere else.

And what we always say is the only person that gets hurt on a roller coaster ride is the person that jumps off. And essentially, Lisa, you did you you jumped off because the last, you know, few years have been 23%. I mean, it's been like it's been crazy. So, it would have been um I mean, yeah.

Yeah.

you would have earned. So, did you make a mistake? I'm going to say yes because I think long-term investing, you just stay in. Whether it goes down and you get freaked out, just stay on the roller coaster because it's going to go up and down.

It's what the market does. But when you pull your money out, uh, if you pulled it all the way out, which I can't tell if quite what you I don't I don't know exactly how that transfer looks. >> I didn't I didn't pull it out where I'm paying taxes >> is on it. Yeah.

So, it's still under the 401k market. Yes.

difficult now um is when because I am

going to say yes, put your money back in. You're now going to be buying back in at the top where you would have, you know, you would have lost all those returns. So, >> it's not too late. We can you can still get back in, Lisa.

So, I didn't mean to harp on you, but I did want to make that a kind of a teaching point because what you did was very common. People do that a lot. >> Um, but just not to freak out next time because, >> you know, you guys did lose out on a on a on a lot of interest that you could have earned. So, what I would do is Yes, I would get back in.

How old are you guys?

>> And 59. Okay, perfect. Yes.

>> That's what we're worried about is retire. Retirement like we don't want to go back in and then worry a little bit about about that. But our house is is almost um paid paid off,

so we feel better about that. But we still we owe um 168,000 left

>> on your house. Okay. How much do you guys make a year?

>> Um so again, right now I'm not So he

makes 122,000 and I get about 30,000

with my social security. >> Oh, that's right. Okay, perfect. Okay, that's great. So you guys, it's about 150. Um and then Yeah. So, I'm just

thinking, you know, at 54, 59, I mean,

you guys, you know, I mean, it could be another 30 years, 35 years that you guys live, you know, if you're if you guys are um, you know, healthy and doing all the things. So, that's why you still have a long-term, if you will, >> um, time to get back in the market that even if it does dip for a little bit, a few years, think you got you got, you know, just picture 30 years as an example of what you guys have to kind of ride this out. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And am I if I'm understanding the numbers right, you you have a million dollars, right?

>> 900 our house is worth and we owe just

168 left at 2.5% interest. So I haven't

been paying that much extra on that right now just because our interest is so low. >> Right. But just the CDs alone, the 535, the 275, and the 200. Did I get those numbers right?

>> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. So, if you're saying, "Hey, today I'm going to plug in a million dollars." >> That's not bad, right?

I mean, of course, keep three to six months out in cash, but I you're going to be just fine. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Put that money in.

And I would, Lisa, I think you're a little hesitant to even get back in the market, but I would because if you think about even Okay, in your house, you got to get aggressive on that house, Lisa. Even if it's two and a half%, you're making 3% on your CDs. You guys are, you know, you're paying what you're making and you're kind of just Yes. You're you have a wash right now.

aggressive on paying off the house and

then we just talked to a couple. We l had debt free scream that they, you know, they paid theirs off, which is amazing. So, um, so it can be done. So, I would do that.

And then I would I would even sit down. We have great Smart Vuster pros there in Charlotte and I would sit down with someone and look to see and tell them about about, you know, a little bit of your nerves around the you feel like it's risky, like you don't want to lose your retirement, you know, these kind of things because a lot of people can feel that way. But what I want you to do is listen to someone that you trust, someone that you like. You know, find a financial planner that you actually, I think, personally enjoy because I think it's important that you trust them.

>> Um, and let them show you some of these numbers and to be able to say, "Hey, here's the facts of the track record of the market >> um on the on Yeah, with the co I mean, what was the stats? We we taught on this. Gosh, it's been five years now, but when it went down, I think it only took nine months to get back to what where it was and beyond. You know what I mean?

So like even that was a quick when you look at these massive um you know 0807 was a little bit different but you look at you know things like COVID September 11th you look at these >> major events that do take kind of a dip but then a lot of them return so quickly that the news doesn't talk about it that it all gets back up you know within a few months. So um >> so I do want you to to do some digging and some learning when it comes to it because it is worth it.

Uh, Lisa, you guys still have plenty of years ahead of you that you guys could really be making some gains when it comes to your money versus it just sitting in CDs. I mean, honestly, I think that's one of um it'll be a detriment long term.

And then you'll see, oh gosh, >> the justosition. >> Yes. And you'll I think that'll help with some of the nerves to say, well, everybody who stayed in is actually doing better >> ahead.

So, yep. So, yes.

>> And then as far as the house goes, you do recommend paying because I have money in a CD. I could >> Yes. >> When that expires, I could just pay the house off since the interest rate was low. Okay. No, I would do recommend.

Okay. >> You got to account for the peace that the peace part of that. You guys are, you know, your husband's about to be in his 60s. There's nothing better than having no payments in the world and owning the place where you live in.

>> Okay, great. >> Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Lisa, for the call. We we appreciate it. Yeah, there is um that house portion is um it's an

interesting one because I think every single person we've talked to, Jade, >> that sounds extreme because we've talked to a lot of Yeah. tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people that have paid off their home at events or been here on the debtree stage or contacting us on >> on uh social or something to let us know. I mean, I have not gotten one message or one comment that someone who pays off their house regrets it.

>> That's right. No one has ever said, "Man, I wish I had >> I wish I still had my mortgage. Oh, I just wish I still had my mortgage." Because here's the thing, too. You can always go back and get another mortgage if you want to. You can go back and borrow on your house once it's paid off.

So, and from a mathematical standpoint,

you know, the game is that people play that I can make more in the market than what I'm actually, you know, invested in if a two and a half% interest rate, but I could be making 15% in the market, you know, my gosh, like I have this huge spread. >> Um, but what doesn't Yeah. What you can't calculate, what you can't put in a spreadsheet or a formula is that peace of mind of knowing that >> my house I I I don't owe anyone anything. And there's something so powerful about the autonomy >> of our money.

>> Absolutely. And then I think about I mean this is just worst case scenario, but I think about the person who doesn't pay off their house and they go into retirement and suppose you go into retirement in a really down or really low year. Now you've got less money in your accounts currently and you've got your mortgage and this whole life of debt to keep up. So there are things to think about.

>> Absolutely. Such a great point. But yeah, Lisa, thanks for the call and I think that's a great you're a great example of what people are feeling and thinking sometimes. And so, uh, I really appreciate you calling in.

All right, Jade, thanks for the show as always.

thanks to our audience that always comes and visits us. We so appreciate you guys there in the lobby. Thanks to everyone in the booth. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 6. A Late Start Doesn’t Mean a Lost Cause | January 19, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. from the Ramsay

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsay Show

alongside the Natalie Attired George Camel >> bringing out another beautiful winter

shet. Love seeing the shet make an appearance. Uh just happy to be alongside my good friend George Camel.

I'm Ken Coleman and we have a fantastic studio audience today out in the lobby.

I got to tell you, they they just look like they're excited to be alive and here. And so, we're grateful to see you all as well. Handsome audience out there, George. >> Absolutely. >> Let's go to Ann who starts us off in Cincinnati, Ohio. Ann, how can we help?

>> Um, so, um, I am 50 years old. I have no

retirement, no savings, nothing.

Um, I am not, I'll be honest, I'm not good with money. Um, growing up, I don't have a relationship with my family.

Never been taught how to manage money,

how to budget, and I would like to start 2026 doing that. And I'm just overwhelmed with how to start, where to start. I know the snowball, the dead snowball. I just, you know, I also have health um

conditions where I was out of work for a month in October. I was in the hospital and it's just it's snowball and I feel like I just can't catch my breath and I I don't know where to start or what to do. >> Okay. Well, you came to the right place and we're going to start with two words.

It's possible because you understand the

baby steps, but the idea of how to actually make it work for you seems like an absolute impossibility. True or false? >> That is true. >> Okay, great. So, >> that is true. >> We start with it's possible. All right.

So, George, let's do our thing. Let's get into the details. Let's get some numbers. >> And the fact that you even decided this at 50 is amazing because I know you think it's too late for you, but there's someone who's going to call in probably today who goes, "Hey, I'm 62 and I got nothing saved." So, Ann's doing great.

She's got a 12-year head start. And so, it very much is possible. And we're going to dig into the numbers here to give you a tactical plan. So, are you working full-time right now?

>> Yes, I am. >> Okay. What do you make? What do you bring home every month?

Um, I bring home right about 1,400

a month. Okay. A pay period, which is

every two weeks. >> So, 28?

>> Yes. >> Great. And are you renting right now?

>> I rent. Yes. >> What's your rent?

>> 15.

>> Okay. So, there's I'm just throwing up the flags. Flag number one, over half of your income is going towards rent. So, there's one problem to solve. We'll put a pin in that. Now tell me about your debt. How much debt do you have?

>> My debt is um medical bills and then

again one of the worst things you could possibly do is like payday advances with

incredibly high interest rates.

>> What's the balance of those?

>> Balance of those is 10.

>> 10k total between the medical debt and payday. >> Okay. Uh, no. Between the the medical debt is right around 15 and then the

cash advances is 10.

>> Okay. Any other debt?

>> No, I do not have any credit cards. I don't have any of that. >> What do you do for a living?

>> I work in a medical office building.

>> Doing what? >> I'm kind of like a patient advocate type thing. Like receptionist. I work with patients. >> Are you hourly or is that your salary that we we got from you? >> I am hourly. What is that rate?

>> 2377.

>> Okay. Um and and and then I'm I'm

curious about your physical stuff that's going on. Are you on the other side of that? Is that going to be a lingering thing that will cause issues for you?

Because you've mentioned it.

>> That will be something that will linger.

>> Does that affect your ability to work?

>> No, there are times that I have to be off, but no. Okay. But they saw you're still pulling 40 hours a week and all that. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> Now, what other bills do you have?

Because are you are you going, you know, kind of beyond the pale here into the red every month because you don't have enough money with the 2,800. And so that's you're turning to payday loans to fund the gap. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Because I have electric, gas, internet, cable, car insurance, and a car payment. No.

>> Are you doing any investing right now through a retirement plan?

>> Uh, none. >> Okay, good. We got to focus to on this debt. >> Yeah, we didn't catch the car debt. All I heard was the payday loan and medical debt. What's the car debt? >> I apolog.

>> And what is it worth?

>> Um, it's a 2022. I would say it's

probably worth. I mean, I I really haven't looked it up. >> Hey, homework assignment number one because if we can get out of this car,

we just gave you uh over a $5,000 raise.

Are you tracking with me real numbers here, Ann? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, I'm telling you, Kelly Blue Book is what we're looking for to sell this thing. And uh and and and then then

you're going to uh get a you know, cheap

car. So, let's say you've got I'm hoping What kind of car is this? A 2022 what?

>> Uh Kia K5.

>> Okay. And you owe 16 on it. So, let's

say you come away with four or five grand in equity. That's what you're doing. That's what you're putting towards another car. And now you saved yourself 450 bucks a month immediately.

Okay. >> Okay. For your budget's huge. And George, I'm jumping in and getting ahead of the game here. Now, this is great, but what's your what's your apartment situation? Are you in a lease? When is that up?

Um, it's actually a it's a home. It's a

three-bedroom, one bath home. It is up in April. >> Okay. You don't need a three-bedroom home.

>> You're Yes. >> Unless you have two roommates. Okay.

Fantastic.

That's where I was going. That'll cut you down to 500 bucks a month, wouldn't it? Your share.

>> Uh, yeah. around here. A one-bedroom is

about uh 1,100,000

to,100.

>> What about What about some elderly couple or an an elderly lady who's got a room over a garage? I just believe in most cities in America, you can get below a,000 bucks a month if you find something like that. Am I Am I nuts? Okay, >> tell me if I'm wrong. But the the other thing is so our parameter for your rent, your mortgage is a quarter of your after tax monthly income. And so for you,

>> we're talking about 750 is really where you're going to max out in order to accomplish any financial goals.

>> And so as long as you're in this lease, you're going to be stuck because you have no margin. As long as you have this car, you're going to be stuck because you have no margin. But see what we're doing, Ann? We're looking at all the things that you can actually control even though it feels like they are immovable objects.

Well, I got to have a car. Yeah, but you don't need a 2022 car. You could have a 2013 and still >> I'm not even driving a 2022. I got to have an apartment and they're expensive.

Sure, but you have three bedrooms and you only need one. So, let's get two roommates. Go on Facebook, find an air, you know, if you're in Cincinnati, jump on. There's a Cincinnati roommate Facebook group and vet them.

Interview them.

It's going to be 500 bucks plus utilities." And all of a sudden, you just cut $1,000 off your rent. And if you sell the car, you just cut $500 there. That's $1,500 extra dollars a month you would have. You understand what we just did?

>> Yes. >> Your $41,000 in debt. If you could throw 1,500 at the debt, you're done in 27 months if you do nothing else. And I would cut cable yesterday cuz we're not going to be watching the latest season of Survivor. >> We got to probably get a second job on top of that. I want more work.

>> Nights and weekends. >> That's it. More income on top of all of this. George, what can we give her?

>> Every dollar is a great start. And I'm going to give you my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It'll walk you through the entire plan with tons of ideas to help create that margin. Hang on the line in.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

All right, as we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all of the junk you're carrying. You know, all those things you have to do, all those things you think you should do, all of the past hurts, all the past pains, all the past guilt and shame, all of it. When the world feels heavy, it's important to look in the mirror and consider maybe for the first time setting down that old weight and choosing not to carry it forward into 2026.

Therapy can help you identify the heavy stuff, set it down, and move forward with clarity so you can focus on who you want to become in the new year. If you're thinking about therapy, check out my friends at BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHel is one of the leading online therapy providers in the world, trusted by millions. They have an average rating of 4.9 stars out of five.

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All right, next we go to Samantha who's joining us in Knoxville, Tennessee.

Samantha, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Uh, thank you so much for having me.

I really appreciate you taking the time to take my call. >> Sure. Um, so my husband and I got married last year and we're currently on baby step number two. Um, I didn't think we had

that much debt and so I was like, "Oh, we can get this paid off quick. It's going to be great." Um, well, when my husband graduated high school, he had an agreement with his mom that if he went to college that she would pay for it, which is amazing. Um, I thought um, she

must have like paid it out of pocket or got a personal loan. Um, but it wasn't until about three months ago when my husband checked his credit score to find his credit had dropped drastically and that that's when I learned his college was paid through a federal student loan in his name and his mom had stopped making the payments. Um, when he asked

her about it, she said that she forgot about them and she would start paying them again. Well, since then she's continued to forget and um I told him and she told my husband that um we need to call and ask for a lower payment plan um so she can afford it. Um I want to just take over the payments ourselves uh since it's his loan and pay the student loans off ourselves, but um my mother-in-law wants to pay for it and she doesn't want us to pay them, but she keeps for like kind of forgetting and kind of ruining his credit score.

And um we're hoping to build a house soon or buy a house. Um but we can't do that with his credit being where it is.

um you know us getting any sort of loan.

Um and I'm also worried that if you know

we pay them and tell or she could pay us back, I'm worried it'll become one of those like oh borrowing money from family type situations and it'll put a strain on the relationship. Overall, it just feels like a very yucky situation.

So, I was hoping to ask for some advice.

>> Do you think in any way that your

mother-in-law is playing some passive aggressive game here?

>> Um, I don't want to say that. No. Um,

she's a >> Oh, no. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Now, see, I've been doing this too long. So, now you just told me something without telling me something.

>> I'm not saying that she is. I'm feeling

that it's possible. And when I asked you if you think she's doing that, you went, well, I don't want to say that. But that to me says, you think it's very possible

and I think it's possible. In other words, here's what's not computing for me. Um, she keeps forgetting

and then she reaches out and says, "Hey, can you call them and see if they can lower the payment?" So, a person who said like like I don't think she's forgetting >> and then I also don't buy the idea that

when you said to her, "Well, we'll take over and we'll pay it." And she goes, "No, no, no, no. I want to pay it." I don't think she wants to pay it.

>> And I think and I actually don't think >> and George, you can come over the top ropes here and Samantha, you can tell me I'm wrong, but I'm giving you my gut read here. Uh, I I I think she wants you

to forcefully take this thing. Like, I think she wants you to take it, but she feels shame. She's embarrassed. I think there's a lot of emotion going into this. And her resisting is really not

resisting. She wants you to be, and when I say forceful, I don't mean ugly. I just mean I think she wants you to go, "No, listen, listen. It's okay. You've been great. Blah blah blah blah blah.

We're going to take it. Mom, it's my loan. We're going to do it." I think she wants you to do that. I don't believe that if you were to do that, it's going to break the relationship at all.

>> Sure. >> That's my take. >> Yeah. And that's what I was thinking too. Um I was thinking that, you know, if anything, it helps her out. Obviously, >> 100%. >> I think there there might be like a sense of pride there, you know, that's like, hey, no, I want to take care of my son. I know that it was a very hard transition for her when we got married.

Um she had a really hard time with it.

Um and she kept telling my family, >> whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. She had a hard time when you guys got married.

>> Well, she just not like a hard time like I mean we get along and I go over there every week, you know, we're great. We're very civil and all that, but um she just kept telling my husband that it just felt like she lost him to me and all of this. And so it was very hard for me.

>> Now I know I'm right. Now, now it's not a feeling. Everything I just said is completely fact. You could chisel it in stone. This is a passive aggressive

thing. And you guys have got to be the adults here and create the boundary.

I'll shut up because I've now said my piece, George. But boy, do I know I'm right now. Let's let's put some tactical pieces on this. You need to take over these payments and go, "Well, we didn't know we were in debt, but we're in debt." And that means we're not ready to buy a home.

And that stinks. And you have every right to be angry and upset and frustrated with mom for her irresponsibility. frustrated with your husband for not knowing all these years that he had these debts in his name, which by the way, if they're in his name, he signed some paperwork. And so, >> Sure.

it's fair to trust to trust your parents, trust the people. I mean, I remember when I got my student loans, they were just like, "Yeah, sign here. You're good to go." And I was like, "Oh, okay." You know, and I did it because that was just, you know, what they told me to do. Yeah. >> So, I just think, you know, and I don't like that about student loans. We just sign, you know, basically everything away when we jump out of high school.

>> Preaching to the choir here, Samantha.

>> There's a lot of there's a lot of predatory stuff going on there. That's for another day. But right now, the issue is mom can't pay and you need to

take this on because it's hurting your household. So now it's about protecting your household. >> Yeah. >> And so you don't need to have a blowup conversation with mom. You just need to say, "Hey, we're going to take over the payments. Thanks for what you've done so far. We got this." >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. And now how much how much do you have left? >> So I was about to say I also have uh student loans. He has 17 around $17,000 in student loans. I personally have $12,000 in student loans.

>> Okay. >> Um and I my student loans right now are

in forbearance. Um they're in some sort of save plan which some federal court um

you know hasn't decided on the payment plans. And so they are every time I've called they're like no no payments are necessary. I log into like my federal student loan account and whatnot and um it says no payments are due until 2027,

but I was looking at it the other day and I noticed that it's still inquiring like acrewing interest.

>> Yeah, forbearance acrews interest. I don't know. You you missed that in the fine print, but that's the issue with these save plans. People think, oh my gosh, thank you government as your balloon your your balance balloons unbeknownst to you. So that's like a very low payment, but it's our big like currently other than his student loans, that's our biggest debt. >> What other debts do you have? You got 17, 12. What else?

>> So I've got um my vehicle has a little

over $5,000 left on it, which I plan to pay off in a couple of months. Um and then his has 9,000.

And then I have a credit card that has right at 9,000.

And then um we have furniture that we

bought when we were freshly newly wed. I know it's kind of a stupid thing, but >> How long you been married?

>> Uh now we got married in May of 2025. So

not even a year. >> Oh my gosh, you guys are truly newly wed. >> Yes, truly we are. And I'm trying to do it the right way and get everything.

>> What's your household income?

>> Yeah. So we bring in $7,000 a month.

>> Okay, good. So here's the deal. You're going to list all these debts out. You're going to have a Come to Jesus meeting tonight and list out all the debts, smallest to largest. Break them out individually. Not 12,000 in student loans, but hey, there's seven with all these different balances. I don't care whose debt it is. We're going to list them all smallest to largest balance and then we're going to attack the little one. Do you guys have anything in savings right now?

>> Yes, we have about $4,400 in savings at the moment. >> Great. So, baby step $1,000 starter emergency fund, which means 3,400 can go towards knocking out a few of these debts. >> Sure. And do you still have the credit card open? Is it in your wallet right now? >> Yes, but I don't use it. I have not used it. It's a It's already cut up. Last year I actually led a Ramsay class and

um I taught a Ramsey class and I cut up my credit card then. >> Good. Okay. Have you guys made progress since then on this on these debts?

>> We have. >> Yes, we have. >> Okay. What's been your plan thus far?

Like are you doing the debt snowball?

Are you doing an every dollar budget?

>> Yeah, we're doing the debt snowball. Um, I my bank doesn't connect to the Every Dollar app for some reason. So, but I've been I have a notes app and I check our transactions every single night and I take it out of each each line item.

>> Okay.

Well, this was one of these, you know, you you had a pile of debt and now we just added to it and so we just it's just going to delay the the debtfree journey, but at least you are clear on where you stand.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. I really appreciate your help. >> Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for calling. And I was thinking as you were talking to her about the uh you know the government

trusting the delay. You're like oh thank you government. Yeah. >> It reminded me of the old phrase politicians are the only people that when their hands are cold they put their hands in your pocket. >> Oh that's a good analogy right there.

>> I love that. Sorry. I just had to get that out. That's just an equal opportunity offensive statement. I don't care what party you're in. They all they just put their hands in your pocket.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

All right, George, we're going to your old neck of the woods, Boston, Massachusetts. Tiffany's waiting for us there. Tiffany, how can we help?

>> Hi there. Hi. So, um, funny, my we moved

to Boston in 2022 from Charlotte, North

Carolina, and we planned on staying here, you know, for the long haul. Um,

but we got calls that my job was being moved back to Charlotte, North Carolina, and my husband got offered a leadership role with his group in Charlotte. And we're like, >> "Wow, that worked out. >> What are the chances within the same day, within an hour, um, you know, let's

sell the house and move back to Boston, I mean, move back to Charlotte with our family and whatnot." So, we're walking

away with about probably close to a little over 300,000 from selling our home. Um, and I'm torn on what to do

next. We're limited in our buying pool

because of schools. My son's getting ready to enter middle school. We don't want to, you know, we rather bring him back to where he knows everybody and whatnot. But I don't see myself or see us staying there after he graduates high school. So, I was crunching some numbers over the last week or so and I'm like, does it make sense to buy another house in Charlotte or to rent um because, you know, and

maybe invest or maybe buy a house that's

maybe we see more long-term or, you know, on the coast or whatnot. So, I'm kind of torn on which direction we should take.

>> How will that a couple quick clarifying questions? He's just starting middle school. So, we what are we saying? Five years, six years.

>> Exactly. Seven. I'm thinking like six to seven years. >> Six to seven. And then Okay, let's fast forward. >> Neighborhood. >> Okay, great. Let's fast forward. It's his senior year, final semester. Um

>> and you guys are moving to wherever or you're in preparation to move wherever. What how does that affect your jobs? Can you do those jobs remote or you guys check cashing out of that, too?

>> Yeah. So, I guess it just depends on So,

we make very good money. um we'll be actually getting an increase when we move back to Charlotte and cost of living is drastically different there.

Um >> what will your combined incomes be?

>> Yeah, it will be about 350.

>> Okay. All right. Keep going. So, so yeah, can you stay with this company or or how's that work? >> Yeah, we can stay with the company. Um we, you know, work for major financial institutions that are all around, you know, the country.

>> Um you know, my husband loves the job.

So even we're okay with even staying in North Carolina, staying in Charlotte, but maybe just not that where we, you

know, >> where you would where you would be for 5 to seven years. I totally understand.

>> So you got to stomach it for seven years so that he can go to the the school you want him to go to. Right. >> It's a good question. >> Yeah. >> Um I'm going to I'm going to defer I've got an opinion, but I'm going to defer to my financial guru buddy next to me.

>> Here's how you're you have a strong financial position. You guys have no debt and savings, and you'll have 300 grand. Yep. >> I would buy a house and I would pay it off. >> You have a car loan.

>> Yeah, we do have two cars.

>> I would clean that up as soon as possible. Probably before you sell the house with your in your fantastic income. Just knock it out. And once you guys you know sell the house, I would just move as soon as you could and uh you know to buy a house and you put 300,000 down. What is a house going to cost in that area?

>> Yeah. So we were looking in like the 400 range. 400 to 500. Oh, okay.

>> We didn't want to go anywhere crazy like here in Boston where we have, you know, we're in the 1.3 we're looking this month where I was like, >> I'm trying to split the difference. Could you get a $550 $600,000 home that

you love that you could see yourself in for a decade? >> Well, see, I don't like the houses that

I knew. You've been in Boston.

>> You hate your She does. Let me let me say this, Tiffany, so you don't have to.

Uh, we're doing this for a kiddo because of his friends, but she don't like that area very much. >> What area is this? Am I right?

>> You are. >> Yeah. No, don't buy I would buy the cheapest house possible is what I was going to say. >> I was thinking >> 100%.

I'd go smaller and cheaper than you'd even think just because >> it's temporary, but I think it's long enough that buying does make sense. I would never rent that long. So, I'm with George on that. But I was thinking, let's go as small and as cheap as you can stomach because you're only doing this for >> Tiffany's going to call back in two years and say, I hate this house.

>> No, she's focused. She's thinking about the next house. The other thing to think about is is resale value of what is an area that actually is going to grow and appreciate. So, this is a good financial decision as well. >> That's what concerns me. So, I've been doing a lot of I like to crunch numbers and I was looking at the resale value.

Right now, everyone in that area who purchased during the boom of 2019 are upside down on their homes. So, I'm like, >> what is going on in this area then? This is the area with great a great school that you want your kid to go to. I don't think it's a great school. It's just the school he knows.

>> It it is a good school. Um, I'll call it a good school. It is a great school.

Highly rated. >> Wait a second. You can't call it good and great. I just feel like kids are resilient. If it's a wonderful neighborhood with a great school, he can flourish. >> I'm playing with you, Tiffany. I'm having fun with you. It's It's I'm having a blast today. Here's the deal.

>> Because of that, I I believe that you should go smaller and cheaper. In other words, so let's say the top the top level houses are 400, right? >> Top level houses are probably closer to the eights. Oh, I was thinking the four That's the cheaper the 450 is what I was thinking. >> But I know but you're saying those are the ones where people are are under they're they're underwater. >> Underwater. Yeah. >> Yeah. But I'm saying like what is it just you hubs and the kid?

>> Yeah. We We're small. We're three. I'm going to tell you something. I don't even want a big house. >> See? Okay. Listen. I'm going to tell you something. And this is me and that's what Dave has trained us to do is to answer these questions obviously within our principles. But but how we would do it and I'm if I'm you, I would because

this is a limited amount of time and your mind is already on the coast. I mean you I you got the four S's in your head. I think sun, sand, sea, and salt.

Am I right? >> Yep. >> Come on. You're my kind of person.

That's how I like to roll. >> That's why I moved to a cute little coastal town outside of Boston. I'm like, >> by the way, you're completely addicted once that sea water that gets in your in your can't go inland. So, here's the deal. Because of that, >> uh, George, Tiffany, I, if it were me,

I'd be buying like a town home in a

decent area home.

>> Uh, and I'm going small, two-bedroom. If

somebody wants to stay with us, kick the kid out, he can do an air mattress. I mean, that's me. And I know that that's But my if my wife were here, she'd be like, "You're so intense on all your decisions." But but I don't need four bedrooms. And and that's what it's so funny because we went from 4,000 foot home in Charlotte because that's how they build them.

They build them huge. Yeah. >> We went to a cute little 2,000 square foot cape and I told my husband I'm like I love it. I love the cute >> What does your husband think?

We haven't brought him into the picture. >> Does he have opinions or is he like whatever you want honey? >> He He's so easy. He's excited.

We're going back to North Carolina to be closer to family. We're looking in the same neighborhood as his sister and their kids. So the kids are all going to be back together playing. It's all positive.

She's not where I I've never felt Charlotte. I'm from New York. Never felt Charlotte.

There's no question. I think God's hand is all over this. I don't think this is the universe. I'm just going to say that. And I think that because of this,

um, if you take that 300,000, you need to pay the car off and whatever's left, get a cheaper house, smaller.

>> Yeah. >> Get a good real estate pro.

Ramseyolutions.com/agents.

uh and and get somebody who knows what you're trying to do and I think you you you put a huge chunk down knowing you're going to get all that back. I think you're going to get some appreciation in seven years, but there's no risk and you've just lowered your payments and with that combined $350,000 salary, George, they're socking money away like crazy. And then she goes to the coast.

Yeah, >> we're going from an $8,000 a month mortgage to probably when I was crunching numbers like 2,800. So I'm like, what do we do with that? We've never really in, you know, >> it's interesting to go to the reverse call. >> It ain't 2,800 if you buy what I'm telling you to buy. >> You buy some $250,000 town home or $300,000 town home with 200,000 down.

>> I'm stacking money for the coast. I'm like an animal for seven years. I'm thinking of the coast. I'm thinking of the coast and I'm stacking money like crazy. >> You stack 100 grand for seven years and invest that, you'll have over a million bucks to put towards this coastal home that you guys are dreaming of.

>> So, I think you're on the right track. I would just say let's go with some research and some and patience and a pro.

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All right. If you're working the baby steps, the best way to do it is by using Every Dollar. Now, it's more than just a budgeting app. Now we've built the baby

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product. Fantastic. You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations for your situation. And you can get coaching.

Did I tell you that? In the app. It's unbelievable. So it's like having one of us walk with you every day.

I don't know what that would be like >> without having >> I think I would probably be a lot more fun to walk with than George cuz he's just so neurotic. I feel like you have a probably a mall walker's pace, which I think is a good pace. >> It is. If you if you're walking with me, you're going to you're going to be a little tired, but you're going to feel good about it afterwards.

If you're walking with George, you're going to be reminded of all the things that could go wrong in the world.

>> That's encouraging. >> Yeah, that's accurate. >> No, I'm kidding. I love George, folks.

It's just a joke. Just sarcastic.

>> We're actual friends. >> That's right. Uh you can start every dollar for free today by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Let's

go to Madison who Oh, this is where George went to college, I believe.

Mobile, Alabama. Madison, how can we help? >> Hey guys, glad to talk to you. Uh, so I have kind of a calculation question. Uh, h how do you determine or calculate what is appropriate to spend on a vacation?

And I'll add the caveat that this would be for our 15th anniversary.

>> Hey, >> these are some of my favorite calls. Uh, I'm going to let George lead cuz there's a good chance I disagree with him. Well, let's let's check off a few boxes. Are you completely debtree outside of a mortgage?

>> Yes. >> And do you have an emergency fund saved up? >> We do. >> Great.

>> Okay. And how much are you planning to spend on this vacation? If you could just dream it up, how much would it cost? >> Well, that's a dangerous question because I'm both the uh nerd and the spender.

So, the free spirit, >> which means you've done the research, so let's not dream it up.

You've been thinking about it. What's What's the range that you think this is going to cost? So, somewhere in the 5,500 to 8,000

range. All in like flights, food, coffee

at the airport, like everything.

>> How many days?

>> Uh, seven whole because you know 15 years deserves a whole week. >> Well, let me tell you. Um, okay. And what's your income again? Did you tell us this already?

>> No, I didn't. So, what's the combined income? >> We're about to have an income change.

So, I'll tell you kind of in a couple months where we'll be. Um, we will be at

combined uh 135.

>> Awesome. And when is this trip going to happen? >> October. >> Okay. And do you have the money now or are you guys going to sort of save up with a scing fund to get there?

>> Kind of a kind of a both end. So, we're in baby step four. We're investing 15%.

Everything extra is going to orthodontics or something comes up with the house, you know, we have the cash on hand to save up. So we've got a little bit of it saved up enough to get the tickets at this point, >> right? So you can sort of start that start the cash flow and then continue saving for the actual kind of spending on the trip and all that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. >> And there's no budgetary strain between

now and October to save the rest of the money. >> It's it feels tight, but maybe it's just because it's a decision between, well, we don't have a lot in the 529. Do we put more there? We have five kids, so there's a >> You definitely need the 7-day vacation.

All right. The kids teeth can be straightened out later. I got to tell you, >> that's kind of our thought.

>> Madison, you're going on vacation.

Congratulations, >> George. Yes, I say go. And don't think twice about it. The kids will be fine.

>> Oh, I know they will. We're cashing in on the grandparent uh situation, so I know they'll be fine. I'm not worried about it. I don't feel any guilt or anything. It's more like >> No, I meant the 529 and all the things.

You'll make up for loss. you can make up for that. This is huge. This is a This is a big deal. And um Yeah.

>> Yeah. Okay. I'm excited. >> Well, that makes me feel better. >> Yeah. Very good. >> We do, man. I'm counting down the days.

>> Where, by the way, where is this trip?

Do we know? >> Uh we're looking at St. Lucia.

>> No, you had to say it was Caribbean for me. >> Started with that and Ken would have been like, I don't care. You're going. >> I'm telling you, I'm half pirate. Uh I love the Caribbean. I love everything about it. Um >> if it's got saint in front of it, count me in. Yeah, that's another thing.

That's pretty much it. If you just say Saint something, I'm like, "Yeah, sure.

I'll go there." Love it. Love it. Love it. >> Unless it's St. Louis. I guess I'm not looking forward to >> my 15th ann.

>> Wonderful city. Just not where I want to go for my 15th anniversary. I think that's fair. >> Fair point. Yeah, >> you pulled that out of the ditch. >> Just want to make sure the good people of St. Louis >> Nobody wants to go to the top of the ark and take a selfie for your 15.

>> I'm scared of heights, so no thank you.

Let's go to Gina in New York City. Gina, how can we help?

>> Hi guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um I'm I'm just wondering what I should do with this $6,000 that I have saved.

Um should I save it for April because I know I'm going to have to pay my taxes. I'm an independent contractor.

Or should I apply some of it towards my $9,000 credit card?

>> Do you have an idea what you're going to owe in taxes?

So last year I made more money than I

ever made before and this year I made more than that. And last year I in April I ended up having to pay 8,000.

So that's why I'm like maybe I just need to hold on to this and keep adding to it until I know exactly how much I'm going to have to pay in April. >> Smart. >> That is wise. >> Here's what you don't want to do is you use all this money to pay off debt and then tax time comes and you go, I owe the IRS money and I don't have it. Mhm.

>> That's a dangerous game to play. So, I would wait. What do you do your own taxes or do you work with a tax pro?

>> I I work with an accountant.

>> Okay, great. So, I would do that as soon as possible so that you know the exact number that will come out of that account on April 15th. >> And it sounds like common sense here uh

that it's going to be closer to the 8,000 if not more based on what you told us.

>> Yeah. I'm just, you know, with these possible like overtime um tax write offs

that they're, you know, that have been going around, the rumors. My husband, my husband has a regular job and he does overtime and he does a lot of overtime.

So, I'm just wondering how that's going to factor into it as well. >> Well, let me just stop you right there.

We don't base this on rumors. Unless it's legislation that's been signed, then we're just fantasizing. >> And if it is, it's probably not for the previous tax year.

Well, his uh employer actually sent him a um an email saying that in you know

2025 we when you file taxes for this year for 2025 that there's some type of a tax benefit for all the overtime.

>> Okay. I would just look into that with your accountant. We just want to make sure.

>> Okay. >> So homework is file your taxes with the accountant. Find that number that you're going to owe. Make sure you have that.

And anything above and beyond that, we can start attacking the credit card debt sooner. >> But yes, I would be just stacking cash right now and not use it all toward your debt. This is sort of a syncing fund to make sure that we are covered come tax time.

>> All right. Thank you guys so much.

>> Absolutely. You know, you just George, it's such a great reminder.

>> Um, we don't want to hear something from somebody or we read something that we're not quite sure about and it involves taxes. We want to get on the phone today. You don't have to have your tax statements um or your withholding forms to call the accountant. So, she should be on the phone and Gina, you're listening. You're calling your tax pro today to say, "I've heard this. Is this true based on this?"

And again, they can give you ballpark, you know, but if it's significantly more money you made last year, um again, just the way I would take it, I would put more back. I would be saving another couple grand minimum pretty darn soon.

>> And a good reminder for anyone who is self-employed, $1099, you should be

paying quarterly estimated payments on the IRS website to avoid this gigantic

scary bill that you can't afford come April. And so log in every quarter and work with your tax prose tax software.

You can calculate how much you should be paying in taxes and just send the IRS some money ahead of time. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely true. Stacy and I uh before I came to Ramsey, we had our own company and our accountant had us do that. We were paying quarterly taxes.

Sometimes we'd get a little bit back if the estimate was a little bit too much, but you'd rather that. Yeah. >> Well, you could get hit with penalty and fees if you don't do that, too. So, you want to do it by the book. And if you guys want a great tax pro, a CPA, enrolled agent, uh we we vet them. We have a whole network of tax pros to connect you to that will help you just like Ramsay would. So, you can reach them at ramseyolutions.com/taxpro and find one in your area. Don't wait.

Don't be that person who's April 13th, you're like, I guess I should probably look into getting those taxes done.

>> I like to get them done early. I don't know if you can tell just by my face.

I'm a guy who's like, "Let's knock this out." >> Yeah. And this might shock you cuz I tend to be a little bit seat of the pants. I as well like to uh get get the

as soon as we get the stuff. >> Wow. >> And get it right. >> Get the paperwork. >> Yeah. We got a local tax pro. Uh and I got the double the double whammy benefit. My Tax Pro uh works in the

office for my Smart Vest Pro.

>> Wow. >> So, it's all in the same keeping it in the family. >> I like OneTop, folks. One stop. Take

care of it all. >> Ken's dentist is also in there. That's wonderful. And I get a haircut there.

We're looking for a masseuse, by the way.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Camel. We're excited to be here for you today. The phone number to jump in8255225LE88255225.

Tim is up next in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Tim, how can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Uh, back in back in 2023, my wife and I

did IVF and the IVF medical company we went through um didn't have the greatest billing department. they made some errors billing us for things we didn't get done. Um, and we addressed it with them. Um, and now it's two years later

and they have sent it to collections.

We're getting um, calls and mail from a

collection company trying to get the money back and we let them know, hey, this hasn't been resolved on their end.

We don't want feel like we should pay this certain amount of money that's left over. So, we kind of seem stuck. I mean,

on one hand, yeah, we just pay and be done with it, but for me, more of an issue. >> Let me let me jump in to ask. When you

Yeah. >> You said just now that you resolved this, when you resolved it in the past

and they somebody acknowledged that those were erroneous charges. Do you have paper record like electronic record of all of this?

>> No, I'm sorry. What I what I meant was it wasn't resolved. Oh, >> and we have So, we paid what we're supposed to pay. Um, but for the erroneous billing, we haven't paid that yet. >> Who did you pay? When you say you paid what you were supposed to pay, you paid the IVF clinic.

>> That's correct. Yes. >> Okay. And then you got a separate bill from the IVF clinic or from straight from collections because they should be IVF clinic should have been sending you bills first.

>> Correct. Yes, they did. And we we reached out to them saying, "Yeah, this is incorrect. It needs to be rectified.

They said, "Oh, we'll take you have a look into it." You know, months, months, months went by. Um, pretty much years.

And so now is the first time we're hearing from this collection company saying, "Hey, these are sending bills from the company." >> Right. Now, my next question is, do you have records of proof? Can you prove

that you never got these services? you never got the >> other words. Is there some paper trail between you and the clinic that would prove that you never got the services that they're billing you for?

>> So what in a sense? Yes. The the code

they put in for the services that we had, we never had done. So in a sense, yes, I have that. Um

and maybe we could even ask the physician himself because we know him as a friend and he could say yes. That was never done either. Tim, Tim, hold No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Tim, this is like, dude, I would be talking to the doctor who's my friend.

>> Well, we actually have. Um, unfortunately, he doesn't work here anymore. >> Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Can he validate? >> Can he validate on the record that these he never

treated you in the way that they build you?

It's an it's a yes or no question.

>> Ask that >> what >> I mean I can ask him again. That's not unfortunately it's not his area his his expertise of billing. Um we can try again to ask him. >> No no no no. Again I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to bulldog on this because you called for help. Okay. So

George, back me off here if if I need to back off.

This guy is the doctor who treated you and your wife. Yes or no? Yes. Yeah.

>> Okay. And you have talked to him about this before to say they have charged us for services and I'm not going to ask you to say what it is. It doesn't matter. But but you've talked to him about it and said they've charged us for this >> and and and you didn't do that. Have you had that conversation with him?

>> Uh yes. >> And what did he say? He agreed. Yes. I did not do that.

It was more so it's not something that he has knowledge of as far as billing.

>> I didn't say about billing. I'm saying

they've charged you for something and he has acknowledged or can acknowledge that he did not treat you for that. Forget the billing part. He can testify.

>> Yeah. >> Yes or no?

>> No, that hasn't happened.

>> Okay. But my point is is he could testify. He could do an affidavit. He could he could do I mean if I was going to fight this that's where I would be going >> and I going we know the doctor and the doctor said he didn't do this.

>> And so if even I got to hire a lawyer George not a lot of hours but just somebody who can who can say all right we're going to fight this and here's how and we're going to tell the company to pound sand. We're not going to pay you for this. >> Have you been in contact with the collection company?

>> I have. I let them know the erroneous bills. They put it on pause.

>> Okay. >> Um they came back to us about like a month later saying, "We reached out to this company, the IVF company, and here's what they say. You still owe it." So, they're not really doing anything. >> No, you need to request, you need to get a debt validation letter.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> And then you need to get the itemized bill from the clinic. That's correct.

>> Yeah. And those two things, they should be in conflict where the itemized bill says one thing that's says you don't owe and then the collection company then has to get rid of the the faulty debt.

>> Let me tell you something else I would do. >> If this were me, Tim, I would literally go into the clinic and has to meet with the office manager, whoever is in charge. I mean, >> can I get on your >> like a retroactive coding audit from the billing department and you you just mentioned the word compliance. They're going to be like, "Oh crap, we got >> And you mentioned the doctor and go, I'm willing to ask our friend to go on the

record >> like we're just playing around." >> Is they're out of business in our area and they're gone, so I can't even go into the office now.

>> The IVF, why wouldn't you lead with that, Tim? The place isn't even in business, so there's no billing department to deal with. >> Nationally, they are in other states, not in our state. >> Okay. So, get in touch with the corporate billing department.

>> Yeah. and say, "Hey, this location closed down. I have this bad debt. I need a debt validation. I need an itemized bill from you guys. I need a coding audit. Here's the account number." I feel like this is partially on you, Tim, cuz you've been letting this just fester for years.

>> And you just gave up and went, "Well, I guess we'll just deal with that five years from now." >> And I can handle that. Like Tim, honestly, if we were to have a doctor come in here and check my blood pressure versus yours, I'm more pissed off about this than you are for you. Like, this is

You are in the right. Yes or no?

>> Yes. >> Yes. Say it with some conviction, man.

Like, fight this. This is obnoxious. Cuz here, George, you're the expert on this. It's my belief that he does all of these things. Everybody gets together, the powers that be get together and go, "Okay, this guy Tim is right." And not only is Tim right, I'm waking up at 2 am in the morning thinking about Tim

and I'm done. Cuz I promise you, if this were me, this thing would be resolved fast. >> I would let slumber to my eyes until

this thing was handled. And so Tim, this this is where you got to be the squeaky wheel. You've got to be contacting them so often. They've got your number like they've got it listed. Oh, Tim's calling again. Who wants to handle this one?

>> Yeah. >> And eventually you're going to get to the bottom of this. But the truth is, you just gave up too soon.

>> Yeah. And nobody over there, by the way, over there being the clinic and uh the

collection, nobody over there cares about you. >> Sure. >> And the health care system in general is full of incompetence. And so your job is to be so persistent to correct their confidence that you win the game >> that you flip it from they don't care about you to they care deeply about making this right so they never have to think of your name again. This is the level of intensity. The sword of righteousness. It's a fiery sword and we

are swinging it at everybody in our path

because you're trying to screw me. Ken just took us to church.

The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed.

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That's the letter Y refy.com/ramsey.

Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Hunter in Arizona.

My dad gave me an RV when I was 18. I'm now 24, married, and have two little girls. It is a very nice RV and I'm very well accustomed to the RV life, but my wife refuses to live in quote something that doesn't have a foundation. The goal. We could sell our house, buy land with cash, and live for free instead of paying our $1,500 mortgage every month.

My wife would prefer to move in to her parents and pay $850 a month for rent and utilities. It's a great deal, but I think owning land and having no payments other than utilities is much better.

Which is the better choice? I don't like any of these. Yeah, these all sound like >> Because if I'm reading this right, George, one option is sell the current house, buy land with cash, and live in the RV. Am I reading that right? It says and live for free, which means the RV.

Yeah, that's not that's not a plan. But he already lays out that the wife's not doing that. And she counters with let's

move into our parents' house, her parents' house. None of these are good options. It sounds like to me sounds like everybody's unhappy. >> The question is, is the $1,500 mortgage is that sinking them right now? We have no other information on this.

>> And so, let's assume they can afford it. I think they just don't like paying it.

Based on their framing here, we could sell our house and buy land with cash.

Yeah. This guy wants to park the RV on the land. His wife's like, "No chance.

Uh, I'll I'll say no and raise you. We move into my parents house." Who wants to move into their in-laws? >> Live with mom and dad or live like

both of these are terrible options.

>> I would rather you guys go rent somewhere if you can't afford this mortgage right now. If it's a really crisis situation, >> I'd sell the RV.

>> Yeah. >> Stay in the current house.

>> You said you're accustomed to the RV life. Your wife refuses to I don't think she even likes the RV life.

>> I am fairly certain she hates the very concept. >> I think it's okay to admit your life changed. And yes, it's sentimental because your dad gave it to you when you were 18 and you will grieve that. But it's just a thing going down in value.

It's just a hunk of metal. And so if you want an RV in the future, you can always buy one. But if you're in a pinch, I would sell it, pay off any debt you have, get to a better place financially, and then see, is this mortgage sustainable for the long-term future?

>> The only RV I would ever buy would be the model uh from Christmas Vacation.

>> Oh, the exact replica.

>> If you Well, yeah, if you could find that year, that model, >> that's probably a hot commodity.

>> I don't think so. It's a piece of crap.

But and then you could basically save it. It's just like it's nothing. And I would This is cash. This is me.

And I'm basically parking it somewhere until the day after Thanksgiving at which point I create a Christmas display somewhere with that. >> Charge five bucks a pop to walk in there and all of a sudden >> pays for Christmas. >> Billion dollar idea. >> You were doing custom cocktails in the little RV.

There's a guy in the lobby that's already >> You've had worse ideas. >> And you know what it is? Everybody gets a moose glass.

Everybody. It's like, I'm going to charge you too much for the Christmas cocktail, but you get the moose glass and you get your picture and I have a cousin Eddie guy standing out there in his robe. >> The whole thing. >> If this was Shark Tank, all the sharks would be chomping at the bit for this idea. So, >> I got to find me one of those RVs.

Stacy's going to hate this idea. >> We'll look at the break for the record. All right, Seth is up in Los Angeles.

Seth, how can we help today? All right. I'm in a contract on a house that I I still have time to back out of.

However, I'm realizing the solar lease

is problematic. Uh because it's 22-year

contract, and if I want to buy out the contract, it's $45,000.

>> No, thank you. Why are we not making the seller buy it out >> as part of the deal? I uh the seller in

the contract uh that we're in escrow on

said that the solar goes with the uh house. So I haven't posed a new option.

Uh >> sure the solar stays on the house but you should not be on the hook for this whole thing for his bad decision that he's now trying to get out of.

>> Yeah. >> Is it like it's just not worth it? It might be a ne Yeah, it might be a next ofkin scenario to where they're just they're getting rid of the house and they don't want to pay into it at all.

Um, so I I don't know the entirety of the situation, but I I do I think it might be a next of Ken just trying to suck up as much money as they can on the sale. >> 100%. So this is 40 How much did you say? >> The buyout >> the house >> the uh the solar >> buyout of the solar is 45,000 >> over 22 years.

that that's if I want to buy it out. It is a I think they call it a balloon lease to where every year it goes up by 3.5%.

And so right now my electric bill would be 145ish and by the end of year 22 it would be

316.

Uh I would I'm currently living alone

and probably would not use that much electricity. So >> what made you agree to this? >> Yeah. Why did you sign the contract?

>> I didn't realize it was uh that problematic at the time. Um >> did your realtor not go, "Hey man, just FYI, >> the contract was sent to me." Um the

realtor did not realize it was a 22-year

contract and the the buyout of it. I had to do that digging myself to figure out what the buyout was cuz they did not give her that information either. Well, you know what? It doesn't matter cuz you're telling me you can get out of it.

Correct. >> Correct. >> Walk away, man. >> Get out of this thing.

Think about it. You're paying new system money for old panels. A new a new whole new system should be less than 45,000.

You're assuming all the risk for the solar, the maintenance, the roof issues, and there's zero upside. You didn't get the tax credit. You didn't choose the system. This was a terrible deal all around. So I would say dodge the bullet and get out of this. >> Yeah, that that is initially my thought process as well. The the question also poses if it's about 25,000 below comps

and the uh seller is paying for all um

essential clo uh costs of uh realtor

fees and and inspection fees and those things. >> It's still not worth it. You're still on the >> trying to talk yourself into this. I would go, "Hey, if you want to cover the buyout, I'm in. Otherwise, no deal."

>> Okay, >> that's it. You play hard ball now.

>> Yeah, you got walk away power. I hope.

>> Yeah, >> there's other houses that you can get a deal on that aren't stuck with this terrible debt attached to it.

>> All right. >> U So, hey, this is very simple for us.

We we walk away from this one. Turn your favorite walk away song, whatever that is, and get it in your head before before you call them up. You know, maybe Walk on by you two. I don't know. That's what I would choose. I'm going to call them. Going to get fired up, pumped up.

Tell my realtor I'm done. And then let's see what the negotiation looks like then. By the way, uh one of our amazing teammates, Will Ruer, just texted me and

uh it the uh RV is a 1971 Ford Condor

camper. I'm interested in buying anything with the name Condor.

>> Okay. >> Strong. >> Do you know what I'm saying? Like that sucks me in a little bit. Are you seeing any prices for those, George?

>> Uh I see one the bid for the chance.

>> What are we talking about? I need to know what the market is. >> Yeah. >> The one you sent me, Will, is right in the range.

It's pretty good beat up. And then I would hire an artist to make it look like the one uh in the movie. You know what I mean? They could probably do with some type of sand blasting or something like that.

It looked like it had a lot of rust on it. Uh, are you coming up with anything? >> You're not the only one, Ken. I I just found a forum where someone said, "I'm looking for the motor home like cousin Eddie had in the movie." Oh, yeah.

You're not the first one to think of this. >> I never said I was.

>> See, I'm thinking money maker.

>> This feels like a retirement dream cuz it's going to cost you money. I don't think it's going to make you money. >> I disagree. and talk in your life. The >> only cost is buying one of these things.

All right, we'll stay with the research and see what the market is. Do you want to take a guess? I'm going to say it would cost >> I'm going to say people are charging 50 grand or more for something like that >> if they know what they got.

>> Who doesn't know they have a Condor?

>> There's might be some old guy out there who hadn't seen a movie since, you know, 1968. >> I don't know. It's the greatest Christmas movie of all time. I think if you got a Condor, you know you got >> You know what you got.

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>> All right, Jeff is up next in Minneapolis. Jeff, how can we help?

>> Yeah, I just wonder if I could get some uh money advice or real estate advice.

Kind of both. I guess >> we will allow both of those today. We're feeling very generous.

>> Awesome. Good.

>> Go ahead. What's up?

>> Okay. Well, the real estate part of it

is it's our daughter's house that I'm wondering about. She got divorced about a year ago.

And she got the house, but she also got the mortgage with it. But there's plenty of or there's about half of it. She has good assets, you know, half the value,

but she had to refinance it for half of

it, and she really can't afford it. So, we've been helping her and just wondering if we did the wrong thing. Probably cosigning for it so she could qualify. And >> Oh, you cosigned for the mortgage?

>> We did. Yes.

>> For the refinance. Yep.

>> And you're helping her?

>> Because she she can't afford the payments right now. She's going to school and working part-time. Yes. So, how much are you are you guys giving her every month?

>> Well, it varied. I mean, sometimes she'd come up with the full mortgage. Got close to Christmas there. We didn't even see a payment through then cuz So, it's kind of been biting us a little bit there. >> And she's working full-time.

>> Part time. And going to going to school for teaching right now, too.

>> Okay. What is she doing for work?

>> She's working in a school setting as a paraprofessional, they call them. Okay.

So, let's fast forward. She's done with school. She's a teacher making, I don't know, $50,000. Is that >> Yeah, maybe a little more up in this area. >> Can she afford her life on her own in this house at that time

or is it still going to be tight?

>> Uh, time would tell.

>> Well, let's ask you specifically. What's the mortgage payment?

>> Mortgage is 1,700 a month.

>> So, there's your answer. It's 1700. I don't think this is sustainable. I think you need to have a hard conversation with her >> and say, "Hey, we're going to need to sell this house. It's not sustainable for you. It's not sustainable for us." >> And she can rent for the time being, right, while she's in school.

>> Yeah. My is our area up here. There's not a lot of good areas, housing, and

>> for the grand she's 43. We're kind of just looking out for the grandkids mostly. >> How old are they?

uh 13 and 10 kind of don't want to have to see him get taken out of the house right away, you know? >> I know we don't. But but but I know we don't. But this is not sustainable. As

George said, this is and and you are a great father, by the way. Like you are a phenomenal dad, but this isn't your burden. >> This could be forever. >> This could be Yeah. Like >> once she gets used to you floating two grand a month, why would she go up I I don't want to take that anymore. Maybe at some point she gets on her feet, but that could be years and years from now.

>> But she actually can get on her feet if you get her out of this pit.

>> Yeah, that's what I say. But she could probably go put a good down payment somewhere cheaper and have a smaller payment for sure. >> Right. But that's my point. So, let's get out of this house.

You guide her through this. Say, "Hey, we've been helping you this way, but it's actually not helping. We're just spinning our tires, and here's how we want to help you. We're going to guide you through this." to sell the house, get out from underneath this, get a lower payment if she needs to rent for a year or two until she gets the teacher salary. You know, the kids are going to be fine. As long as the 10 and the 13-year-old are with her, they've their their life, by the way, has already been wrecked.

>> So, it's not the house they need. They

need her. And to be completely honest with you, that house has got some trauma associated with it.

>> For sure. So, I could make the case that the best thing to do, not just financially, George, uh, emotionally, I

think this is the best thing to do.

>> I'm thinking of an investment, though.

It's such beautiful property. And >> again, you know what you keep doing, though? You keep trying to justify pouring money into this pit that she cannot get out of. If you want it back

to you, >> she can sell it to you.

>> She can be yours to deal with.

>> Let's put it this way. actually actually thought about that, but I don't know if I want to go that route, you know, being

a I don't want to own a property in the country. >> You just told us it was a beautiful property and it's a great it could be a great investment. So, which one is it?

>> It is a great investment, but I don't want to live here. >> Okay, then we're not then we need to get out of it. There's a lot of beautiful properties that I don't want to own and uh this isn't this is one of them. So, here's the deal. Are you guys in a good place financially?

>> We're sitting okay. Yeah. No, I'm retired. My wife's still working.

>> Okay. I mean, do you got what's your net worth?

>> Uh maybe about 500,000.

>> Okay. So, you're you're not in a place to go buy property. You're not in a place to float your daughter, you know, a few grand a month. And I think you need to be honest with her and just tell her, "Hey, we've been artificially propping this whole situation up. We love you. We want to help you, but we can't take this mortgage on and you can't either. and we need to face the reality here.

>> That's probably probably good advice.

>> Do you guys have room in the house if she temporarily stayed with you?

>> No, but there's there's another there's another she's involved with someone else and she's barely at this place at this house actually cuz she's at his house.

>> Whoa. Okay. So, there's another man in the picture. >> Yeah. And he's got a cabin so they're up there all the time. And I >> You keep giving us more reasons to list this house this afternoon.

I agree. But I I come up here and ski and I use it as kind of recreational for

me. >> Oh. Oh. So now papa's getting some benefits here. >> Jeff enjoys this house. This isn't about her.

>> No, maybe not.

>> Oh, no. I'm going to I'm going to remove the maybe. It's not about her. She's in the cabin with the new dude, and you're the one that's up there skiing and telling us how great a property it is, but I don't want to live here. And I got to say, for a guy who cosigned on it who needs more net worth, I would be unloading this house. >> And by the way, this is already messy.

Who's going to get all the equity when you sell?

>> She will. >> So, you're not taking a dime from the proceeds of the house.

>> Yeah. I'm hoping that she'd have enough where she could uh reimburse some of the money we've been throwing out there.

>> Well, that's a whole new conversation. Have you guys talked about that and agreed to it when you co-signed the mortgage? has said, "Hey, you're going to reimburse us for what we've paid you?" >> Cuz that'd be a shock to me if I was your son and this was a big surprise at the end.

>> Yeah. I mean, you knew she wasn't going to make the payment of her income of, you know, what she was making.

>> I'm not so sure you didn't go, "Well, I really like the skiing up in this part of the woods and I could help my daughter out at the same time." I mean, can you not get a Motel 6 near the ski slope?

Yeah, I know. But uh >> they tell me they leave the light on.

>> It's actually more more the kids than me, I think. For me.

>> Oh, no. You're all over the place, man.

>> Are the kids staying there alone while she's at the cabin? How is this working?

>> What was that? You guys are both talking. I couldn't hear. >> I know. It's my fault. I was trying to be a smart Alec. Go ahead, George.

>> I'm just confused. So, the It's about the kids now, but the kids are staying at the house. She's at this other guy's house. I'm just confused by the whole situation. They're all They're all at They all go to the other guy's house.

You know, they stick they go there, they stay here. >> It's clear that this house means not a lot to these kids anymore.

>> They're already getting taken every which way to different houses. So, what's the difference? >> I would sell this and get out from under it. Take all the risk out from under your feet. >> And then you can go rent a spot if you want to go ski anytime you want. And with the money you save from getting out of this dumpster fire, you can afford to go enjoy some skiing.

>> Yeah. Sorry, Jeff. I mean, we're for you. You called us.

>> You You talked yourself right into the corner. We just >> I knew what I kind of knew what you guys were going to say. I listen to you guys all the time. >> Well, that's good. I'm glad we didn't disappoint. That's That's always good.

But, uh, you're a good man. But, hey,

>> the the key is here's the principle underneath it. If you're going to help, it should be one, temporary, two, intentional, three conditional.

That's what you need. Not open-ended, not well, it could be a good investment and we're going to cosign. There needs to be very clear boundaries. Anytime you help someone. >> Yeah. >> And we never loan money. So, I like that you didn't do that. But if it's going to be a gift, it needs to be, hey, we're going to gift you this for the next 6 months, and here's what's going to happen after that. You're going to be out of school. You're going to have a job. You're going to be taking this on.

We will not be giving you another dime after that. And that's not callous.

That's actually good for her because she's a grown woman and she needs to live her own life and not be propped up by mom and dad at this point.

>> And he could take that savings, maybe invest in me with my Christmas uh popup with the condor. >> Yeah, you you want this to be a safety net, not a hammock. And it's quickly turning into the ladder. >> I'll just ship it up to the ski area.

We'll just park it outside the lodge. Me and Jeff sitting out in our lawn chairs.

>> Let go of the dream, Ken.

>> I believe they call that a call back, James.

Hey.

Hey. Hey.

All

right, folks. You know this, buying or selling a home is a very, very big deal.

And you don't want to mess that up. You want to go into it cleareyed, uh, levelheaded, uh, ready to go. And you do that uh, by using our Ramsay trusted

program to find a top agent you can trust in your area to make this whole process, whether you're buying or selling, a blessing, not a burden. You can find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free by going to ramiesolutions.com/agent ramseysolutions.com/agent or we have a link in the show notes.

Let's go to my friend Ken and I'm friends with all Ken's George just >> you've never met a Ken you didn't like. >> Yeah, it's a great name and just you know you just know it's a solid person.

Ken is joining us in San Francisco. Ken, how can we help?

>> Hi Ken. Hi George. Thanks for taking my call. >> You bet. What's going on? So, my wife

would like me to sell our truck and uh

get a a newer truck. And I'm not sure if that's a great idea. And also, if I end

up selling it, how much truck I could afford. >> Oh, this is one of George's favorite things to talk about. So, hit us with the details. >> Get into it. >> It's a 2000 Ford Ranger. Uh, it's got

low miles and uh, it's had a couple issues, but I'm able to work on a truck that old and uh, I like low registration

and insurance payments and I own it outright. So, >> and can we say that's a fantastic truck

that little Ford Ranger. >> I miss those old ones. >> Perfect size. That's the truck I would have if I was >> I was getting ready to say short guys like us, we drive, if we drive trucks, it's a Ford Ranger. No question.

>> Okay, so your wife, what does she think about this? Do you think it's a death trap? What is her reasoning for why you need a new truck?

>> Yes, that's exactly it. She believes it's unsafe uh for the for the kids and

um also has bad paint fade. So, I think she just uh also doesn't like driving it around town. >> Just the curb appeal is is offputting to her. >> She doesn't like the patina, huh? >> Now, where are you guys at financially?

>> Do you have any debt? >> Uh so, uh we have zero debt besides the

house. Um, and uh, other than that, we

have uh, uh, we have high yield savings

account with approximately 125,000.

>> Okay, buy a truck, dude. What are we doing here? >> Oh, no. >> There's no need to shout. >> I'm not saying don't buy a brand new truck, but could you get a new to you truck for What's your household income?

>> It's approximately 330,000.

>> Oh boy, your wife has just got the

patience of Job. Dude, this is like extreme cheap skates level. This is wild. >> And by the way, it takes one to know one. When George says that, >> I'm telling you to buy a new truck. Okay. So, what truck would your wife like you to have? And what's the price point of said truck?

>> So, if I was to get a new truck, I was looking at a >> a used uh Toyota Tacoma, maybe in the

2020 year range. So, approximately $30,000. >> I would do it yesterday. Wow. Wow,

George. >> This is all green lights. >> This is so fun. >> This is a rare truck guy. Most truck guys are broke with huge payments and their truck payment is more than their mortgage. >> Ken, is your wife near you right now by any chance?

>> Yeah, she is. >> Can she hear this call?

>> Uh, she can. Yes.

>> Good. I just want to make sure that she heard that George said do it. You know,

buy the truck. And here's the parameter.

Make sure that everything with wheels and motors in your life is no more than half of your annual income. Check. Pay cash. Check. Be debtree with an emergency fund. Check. So, you are all >> Make your wife happy.

>> Check. >> You're not doing anything out of control. I would You should have a little party to say goodbye to this truck cuz I think it's fantastic. It's sentimental. You can frame a picture of it. >> Well, you know what? Actually, I I a quick question because I I I was thinking about this. How much is that? I don't know what a a 2,000 uh Ford Ranger

would cost in that condition. Do you have any idea what you could get for it?

>> Uh I believe I could get around $6,000 for it. >> All right. Can I throw something out, George? >> Sure. >> Do Well, let me ask a question before I throw it out. Ken, do you need the $6,000 from the Ford Ranger? How much do

you need that money to buy the truck that you want to get?

>> No, I don't particularly need the >> He doesn't need it. Okay. Can I suggest that >> you want him to keep it, don't you? >> He likes it a lot.

>> You got room for an extra ugly truck around the house or does she not want to see it? >> We We do have room for it. Yeah, I could probably keep it. That's an idea. >> Well, does she want it gone from her existence is what we're getting at.

>> I think she just uh doesn't want to pick up the kids in school with it. Well, would you like to keep it or was this just all financial and it was the concept of how little money you were putting into it or do you want to keep it?

>> It drives great. So, I I I wouldn't have a problem keeping it. >> I'm going to throw it out there.

>> Well, here's the good news. You throw it out. >> You can go buy the truck tomorrow and not have to sell this one. And so, it's not like an on fire situation. That's why. >> But my guess is your wife's about to call 1800 Got Junk and get and get this thing out of the drive. >> It's worth six grand.

>> Yeah. But I'm just saying she wants it gone and uh for those reasons I eventually you have to let go of things and so I think it's been high time. How long have you had it?

>> I've had it approximately 3 years now.

>> Oh, okay. So this is it's a new truck to you. >> Yeah, it's I had a commuter before and my commute got short so I I got a truck.

>> Oh man, Ken, you are special in a good way. the fact that you love that 2000 Ford Ranger patina them pains >> six figures in savings making $300,000

>> and we're arguing over.

>> But this is this is the next door. This is the everyday this is the millionaire that you don't see coming cuz he's rolling up in a 2000 Ford Ranger.

>> I love it. >> Yeah. J Ken, do you mind asking what is your retirement portfolio?

Uh, right now I have a 457 with approximately 380,000 in it.

>> Yeah. >> Fantastic. >> Yeah, he's rocking. >> What's your house worth?

>> The house is between 900 and a million.

>> And what do you owe on it?

>> We owe 315.

>> Fantastic. So, you guys are baby steps millionaires. >> Yeah. No question.

>> Yeah. Thanks to my dad listening to you uh to Dave back in the day.

>> That's amazing. Well, here's the cool news. I don't I'm not saying you should do this and I wouldn't, but you could buy a new car. Cuz we tell people, hey, if you're going to get a new car, you got to wait till you got a million- dollar net worth for a simple reason.

It's too much of your world wrapped up in something going down in value before you hit that milestone.

>> Okay. Yeah. I'm just I I like the cheap insurance and registration, but I hear you. I hear you. >> And I'm sure you've done your research to find what trucks have the cheapest insurance. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. For >> this guy researches, >> you know, this guy could sub in for you.

Absolutely. >> You two are wired. We can do a car exactly the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> I'd swap this Ken for this Ken any day.

>> Well played. >> I love it. Thanks for the call. >> And I don't blame you.

He's far more your kind of guy than me. >> I needed a win today. I was feeling like a real fuddy duddy. And so it feels good to deliver some good news.

>> It does, doesn't it? Uh really important. By the way, I do think it's important. We have new people all the time.

So I'm thinking new listener, new viewer. I want you to explain again a little bit more detailed.

>> and why the reason is those things are going down in value so you got a depreciating asset and so if you have $80,000 worth of car and you make a hundred,000 That is so much of your world that is literally tanking. And so

you don't want to make these decisions, especially with debt. Cuz here's what we see. They buy the $40,000 truck with a payment. So it costs them $50,000 and 6

years later that thing is worth $20,000.

So now you've got a real problem. You're underwater within a year on this truck

and you've paid way more than it's worth. And that puts people in a bind.

So, the good news is you pay cash for a car, you can never be underwater. That's exactly right. Because let's play that scenario out. Let's let's go what you said.

So, if you have a million dollars in net worth or more and you buy a brand new car and something, you know, life-changing financially happens, where do you sit? Well, you're sitting with a paid for car that you can unload, >> no debt with a with a sizable net worth, a nest egg, so you can stomach the depreciation. It's all about ratios, >> right? And so you got to go, well, this guy makes $300,000, so he can buy a $30,000 truck.

Yeah. >> And so it's not that, you know, expensive trucks equals bad. It's are you doing this from a place of financial strength versus it really being a detriment to your financial future.

>> Yeah. We should have told Ken, if he's still listening, get steak dinner tonight. You know, >> absolutely. >> Celebrate the fact that your wife is going to be so in the decision. Oh, even >> it's a date night with the truck. >> In the new truck. >> In the old truck. >> I like the old truck cuz you don't want to get the old grease on the new seats.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel uh joins me. Uh

all of a sudden I can't talk sometimes.

It happens. >> I have that effect on people. >> Yeah. Speechless. >> It's your cologne. It's uh it throws me off. >> I think more of it. It's a musk.

>> That's what it is. 888255225

is the number to join George and I. We're having fun today as we always do, but we're going to help you in the process. Joe is up in Orlando, Florida.

Joe, how can we help?

>> Hello. How are you guys today?

>> Oh, we're having a blast. How are you?

>> Good. Good. Well, I'm hoping you guys

can settle a disagreement between my husband and I about paying off our mortgage. >> Okay.

I believe we should use a mutual fund

that we have to pay it off right now.

And he would rather do it with cash flow. >> Okay. Give us the numbers. How much to pay off the house?

>> The balance on the mortgage is about $29,000.

>> Okay. And if we uh don't pay it out of the

mutual fund, if we were to do husband's plan, what is the date? Is he attaching

a date by which it's paid off through your normal income?

>> About 6 months to a year. 6 months would be really aggressive. Um and a year

would be a little well less aggressive, of course. >> How much is that? It doesn't matter, but I'm just curious. How much is the house worth?

The house is worth about 700,000.

>> And give us your retirement uh portfolio.

>> We have about $850,000

in just retirement savings.

>> And then non-retirement, what do you have? >> Well, we have the mutual fund that is worth about $37,000.

And we have cash about another $60,000

of other liquid cash between our bank accounts. >> Why not just use the cash?

>> Because we've got some other large purchases that we need to make this summer. >> Okay. And what is what's the priority?

Is it the large purchases this summer?

>> Yes. >> Nothing's on fire with the mortgage.

It's getting paid off. Let's say it's going to happen within the next 6 to 12 months. no matter how we do it. Can we agree on that? >> Yes. >> Now everyone's happy already.

>> Yes. >> So now it's just what strategy and tactic are we going to use to get there?

Mutual fund cash putting extra through future income and then these future purchases. Is this going to drain the savings or do you have another emergency fund?

>> Uh it wouldn't drain the savings? No. We just have to buy another vehicle for my my son who's become of driving age.

>> Well, what are we looking at? What are we thinking about spending on that?

>> Um, well, he's going to get his brother's older car and then we're going to replace that car. About a $25,000

purchase is what we're looking at.

>> Okay. I'm just doing the math. So, that leaves us 35, right?

>> Right. >> Okay. And what's the other big You said you said plural purchases.

>> We may have to replace our roof.

>> Okay. What's that going to cost?

>> Well, probably about 15.

>> Okay. Okay. So, that gets us down to 20.

And that's if we don't replenish it and put more money in there as we go.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Well, do you have an emergency fund separate of this $60,000 in cash?

>> No. >> Okay. Well, what is a 3 to six month uh emergency fund for you? What's that amount? >> About about $30,000.

>> Mhm. Perfect. So, how about after these large purchases are complete, we replace the roof, we get the car. Anything above the 30 goes toward the house and then anything that's remaining on the mortgage we take from the mutual fund.

>> Deal.

>> Deal. >> Then we don't deplete the mutual fund.

Which, by the way, here's my rub with what you guys Here's here's what happened. Here's what went wrong. You were investing money with no purpose

>> or there was a purpose and now you decided I want a different purpose than he had in mind.

>> It's a very old mutual fund. It's a It's a mutual fund that I started from a car

accident money, okay, >> when I was quite young. So, it's kind of just left over. So, it's it's it's been there for quite some time.

>> Okay. So, this is just sort of bonus money that's been sitting around.

Obviously, you're going to have some capital gains taxes. So, I would look into that. I don't think that's why he didn't want to liquidate it, but that could be part of his. >> But I will tell you, um, I'm going to throw a different, uh, scenario out because you said if we got aggressive,

um, we could pay it off in 6 months. If we didn't get aggressive, normal cash flow, this house is paid off in 12 months. I don't like taking the tax hit

to do this. So, I actually am in in

agreement with your husband because of these other expenses, George. I I'm just gonna stick to it. You guys have been very aggressive. I mean, very committed to do this.

I just wouldn't empty I wouldn't take any money out of the mutual fund. I think I'd pay this off in six to 12 months out of our normal cash flow and have the cash for all the other things that you got to do. Don't touch the emergency fund. That's just where I'm at.

But that's only because George, I don't disagree with your opinion. I just I just don't want to use that mutual fund money for >> this. That's why I asked them to calculate it because it might not be as much as you think.

2,000. Now we're talking a few hundred bucks. And so I don't think it's as scary as, you know, hundreds of thousands being liquidated. But uh Joe, I I think there's a good compromise here. I don't think either of you are wrong. Uh you guys are being very intentional with even paying this mortgage off. Now, if he said, "I never want to pay it off," then I would think we'd have a bigger problem here.

>> But it's really just about tactics and semantics. And so I think splitting the difference. I want you both to be a little bit feel like we both kind of lost and we both kind of won.

>> That's that's marriage. >> But a great situation to be in. So good for you. >> Congratulations. Baby steps millionaires about to have a paid for house.

>> So fun. >> It's a good life. Good problem to have.

>> Steve is up in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

Steve, how can we help?

>> Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um I'm 36 years old. My wife is 31.

We're on baby step number seven. Uh, we're debtree. Our house is paid off.

All of our cars are paid off, but we're thinking about buying a bigger house.

Something that's going to put us about

$500,000 in debt again.

>> How much did you have the first time?

>> So, our house is worth about 350,000.

Um, and we're not sure if maybe renting

it out to get a little bit of extra income. We're not we're not going to have a mortgage on the other house and have this investment property over here.

I would say just sell it. Use all the proceeds to put towards the next house.

And you're talking about like a $750,000 $800,000 house.

>> No, no, no. I was talking about a $500,000 $550,000 house.

>> Okay. Well, if you put your three your 300,000 in proceeds that you'll get from selling yours, now we're talking about a $200,000 mortgage, >> right? >> That you'll pay off how quickly?

Uh well, my first mortgage was probably around 160 and I paid it off in seven years. >> Okay. Well, if you can you guys pay it

off more aggressively in this case?

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, 10 years ago, we were not making as much as we were we are now.

>> Okay. And what's your take-home pay every month as a household?

>> Uh every month, so my yearly salary or

or combined yearly salary is about 150,000. >> Okay. um base salary is about $50,000

each and then we get commissions, tips, bonuses from our businesses.

>> So, a healthy six figure income. You can easily afford a $200,000 mortgage and let's make a spit shake and go, "Hey, we're going to pay this thing off in 3 years." And that way, you're not going backwards for a long period of time. It's not a sin to go from baby step seven back to six, but we don't want to hang out there for seven years either.

Why the sell the house? >> Why the spit in the shake? >> I don't know. It just feels more official. That feels like a true bond.

>> Coming from a germaphobe like you, I'm a little surprised. I would never do that. Just kiss. If you kiss, you've already done it. I'm just saying. >> Oh, I see.

Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money or I'm going to get my financial act together.

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All

right, New York City is where we're going next. Lee is joining us. Lee, how can we help?

>> Hi, thank you uh guys for taking my call. So, my question is um I live in my

childhood home with my sister and my boyfriend. Last summer we started renovation and my sister decided to move out. So now I just want to know is she still responsible for part of the renovation for the house?

>> I mean did did we get her to sign anything? Did we did we sign anything?

>> No. There was no agreement that hey yep we're going to do these renovations.

>> Well she knew we were going to Well, she was here when we started the renovation.

>> Yeah. But was there we know there was no sign thing, but was there a a conversation around the breakfast table?

Was it 50/50? >> This is going to cost about X amount of dollars. Are you in?

>> No. >> Is there any agreement about this co-ownership situation?

>> No, she's just on the the title. She's on the title of the house. It's our childhood house that um we got from our parents. >> Okay. Are these necessary repairs or are these like improvements, upgrades?

Yeah. Improvement upgrade.

>> And I have a sense that you were the one driving the train. You were the leader, the ideiator kind of executor.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Here's the tough news. If there's nothing in writing, you can't force her to pay for these improvements and upgrades. It's like an elective surgery.

>> That's right. >> So, if there was a necessary, like, hey, the foundation's cracked and we both own this house. I think you'd have an argument to go, we're going to split this. >> But if it's, hey, I just want a new kitchen and she was there when you started it.

I don't think you're gonna have a case here. In which case, I would limit this if you can't afford it. Are you going into debt for this or are you cash flowing it? >> No, no, no, no.

We have we have I have cash. Um, I just received a trust from my uncle about 3 years ago, so I'm using that. >> Okay. Here's what I might do and I think is wise.

You would you should drop an agreement saying, "Hey, I'm putting this much in upgrades. I'm going to get that much more out of the house when it sells." >> Right. That's fair. >> Right.

>> Okay.

>> Well, what I was going to do is I was going to wait until I have the whole total for the renovation and then I was going to say this is your cut.

>> So, good. You haven't brought it up. So, our our point to you is you don't even have a common sense argument on this one. So, don't burn any calories or create any tension with your sister on this.

I think you bring it up in the form of what George said. Hey, I've decided to do this, as you know, and I think it's going to add this kind of value, but I'm going to get a realtor's take on this. Not going to make up a number based on all my receipts, >> and then I I want to know if you're okay if when we sell this. I think George's advice is great.

>> Or you go, or we could split this 50/50, and nothing changes.

>> But it makes no sense for for her to benefit from the appreciation. you know, this house is going to be more expensive. That's right. I agree. Because of the renovations, and so therefore, she shouldn't get all the benefit when you floated all the the money for it. But this is it's part of the mess when you co-own a house, even with family, >> right? >> It's just hard to to not make it messy.

Uh so, the other part is what's the long-term game plan with this house? Are you going to live in it forever? Is there a plan to sell it? Can you sell it without her writing off on it?

>> No. Well, actually, there's no longterm.

My my daughter will probably inherit the house.

>> How old's your daughter?

>> 24. >> Okay. Is she has she said, "I would love to have this house when you're when you're gone." >> For now, yeah. She's not going to be able to afford a mortgage. My house is almost paid off.

>> Cool. Well, um I would talk to your sister ASAP. I'd get all the numbers as soon as possible and go, "Here's what the total cost is. keep it reasonable because there's a chance you don't ever get this money back. And so I would limit um what you're doing. It's easy to go crazy when you're doing renovations and they're always more expensive than you thought they were going to be.

>> Of course. >> And it always takes longer.

>> Of course. >> All right. Best of luck. Yeah. Thanks, Lee. Thanks for the call.

>> Uh let's go to Steve uh who is in our

backyard here of Nashville, Tennessee.

Steve, how can we help?

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call today. >> Sure. >> So, uh, my my my questions are all regarding just getting out of debt. Um, so I I work full-time, have a business

that I do as well, and over the last

five years. Um, I've accumulated

about $434,368

of debt >> and for the business.

>> Uh, no, that's my mortgage. It's all my debt. I had a mortgage before the business. >> Okay. Outside of the mortgage, how much debt do you have?

>> It's 166,37.

>> Okay. And what is that comprised of?

>> It's uh my vehicles. I have two two

vehicles, my wife's car, my car, credit cards, and loans.

>> What are you taking home from the business each year?

Last year I ended up clearing 37,000.

>> That's not great.

>> How long you been running this business?

>> About five years. >> Are you running? >> Are you running any of your expenses through the business or you're only getting 37,000?

>> Yeah, I'm running all my expense uh you know, my expenses that I can through my business. Uh we had we had about $99,000

in in revenue but paid taxes on the 37.

>> What's your household income? Is your wife working outside the home?

>> She does. She works somewhat of a part-time full-time. She's she's making about 30,000 a year and I'm I'm clearing about another 80 at my job

full time. >> Oh, so you have a full-time job on top of that. >> Yes. >> Well, you buried the lead there. I was like, "Oh my goodness, how are you guys surviving?" >> So the 37 that you paid yourself as a side hustle.

>> Yes, correct. >> I feel a whole lot better. I was like, "This dude's been at it for 5 years full time." >> I was about ready to tell you to shut the business down, man. It was going to get bleak fast. >> I'm sorry. >> So, you guys are making 150 grand a year.

>> Uh, that's before taxes.

>> Yeah. Gross household income 150 grand.

Okay. What's your question?

Well, my question is is that I'm overextended here big time. Um, you

know, I'm I'm all my payments and everything. You know, it's it's more about how can I get this cleared up and

start actually making putting money towards, you know, our retirement and things as opposed to just paying all these loans. >> Well, his answer is simple. You're driving your retirement right now.

>> Those cars >> were your retirement fund, but you decided, I want a nice car instead.

What's your combined car payment?

>> Uh, it's$,752.

>> Goodness gracious. What are these cars worth?

>> $1700.

Is that Did I hear that right? >> Yes. Yes.

>> Well, there's your answer.

>> Yeah. I've got one uh uh a Jeep that I

that I owe 56,000 on and I've got a Honda uh you know another Honda car that I owe 23,000 on >> and both of them uh you know are combined at 1752.

>> Yeah. So you've got about $80,000 in cars and you make 147. So that's a major problem and the parameter is no more than half your annual income tied up with things of wheels and motors. And so you guys are over that. And even if you weren't, I would tell you to sell these.

You don't need a $56,000 Jeep right now to live your life, do you?

>> No. >> Okay. So, we're going to sell both of these cars. Are you underwater on either of them?

>> The one Jeep I am. U last time I I hit

Carvana with it, they were offering >> Well, Carvana is going to give you pennies, dude, cuz they got to make a profit. Go to Kelly Blue Book, find the private party value, and sell this thing yourself. Facebook Marketplace, Auto Trader, get these cars listed and make sure that you have the difference in cash or a personal loan from your credit union and then you're gonna need a little bit of money to get some beater cars.

>> Yeah, she's uh you know, I've already talked to her and um yeah, she's she's on board. She was you know, her the the Honda is her car. I bought it in 25 um 24 and she and the car that we had, you

know, it was paid. It it was paid off and she was like, I don't even need a new car. You know, >> you just got excited and you deserve one, babe.

>> No, there was a repair coming >> and um we had it was a oneowner a one a

oneowner car. We bought it at Honda and we took it down there to get it repaired and um they gave us a good deal on it and and wanted to buy it. That's the way it went. >> Great deal. Leaving you guys broke was a terrible deal, my friend. So, you can clean this up. Sell the cars. Get aggressive. Do the debt snowball. And then we'll attack the mortgage later on.

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Lynette joins us in Denver, Colorado.

Lynette, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, uh thank you for taking my call. Love the show. Um I have paid off 37,000 in 15 months thanks to y'all.

>> Wow. I didn't do jack squad >> every day. >> I would have been sitting. >> You guys are encouraging. So, I appreciate y'all. Um, so now that I'm in

baby steps three, I'm trying to look at my emergency fund. Um, after this last

year, um, I made 115,000, but after

everything comes out, that includes my retirement that I was doing, I dropped me down to about 74,000.

Um, and I'm now I've upped my retirement

to 9%. I do get a 6% match, so that brings me up to the 15%. I'm looking at doing 2500 to 3,000 a month in emergency

fund until now until December because

I'm single and by myself. I'm just kind of wondering, is that about what I should be doing? Uh, 25% of my housing

is about 1,400 a month. making sure that's correct and just trying to get, you know, feedback from you guys. I'm also getting 30,000 from my dad in inheritance. I just opened up a fair win checking bundle that I heard about from you guys, but I haven't got the debit card yet. And that I plan on putting the 30 grand into a high yield savings account with them um until I get like

$250,000 saved up for future housing.

So, kind of want your guys's take. So, you got like 17 things going on. Let's clarify. So, I know. >> Do you have any savings right now?

>> Uh, about 2500 because I just paid off that 37,000.

>> Okay. So, let's go over the baby steps because there's some parts I want to clarify for you. So, baby step two, you obviously did debt snowball. You're completely debtree.

>> Yes. >> Now, baby step three is next, which means we are not investing yet.

>> Oh, I thought we were for the emergency fund. No, >> the emergency fund is separate. So emergency fund is 3 to six months of expenses in a high yield savings account. And until you get that, we're not going to invest a dime, even the match. And I know that go you're like, "Oh my gosh, well, I can't give up the match." Right.

>> Right. Right. >> But here's the thing. Doing seven things at once is not going to cause you to make progress.

>> And the good news is you're about to get 30k. Is that your emergency fund? Would that suffice?

>> Uh, yeah. I just was kind of hoping to put that towards a down payment because it's, you know, that's what my dad would have wanted was to put it towards a house, >> okay? But this is all, let's just look at it as a financial foundation. He wants you to be financially stable and free.

That that's the goal, right? And so part of that is making sure we don't have all of our money in a house and no money in savings, >> right?

And so the the proper >> step fiveyear plan >> if you want to continue on with the plan because it's been working for you then put the 30 grand in that high yield savings that becomes your emergency fund and then we can invest 15% of your income which means >> the match doesn't count. That is gravy on top. So you would ratchet up your retirement to 15% and you'd get the 6%

match on top of that.

>> Okay? >> That way you build the habit and consistency and if you have a job one day that doesn't have a match doesn't matter to you. you have the habit of investing 15% and living on the rest.

>> Okay, perfect. I'm glad you clear clarified. >> And then beyond that, you can save up for the down payment with any future money because now you have this foundation, no debt, emergency fund saved up, you're investing for the future, and now you can begin saving.

So, how long would it take you if you did it that way to save up a down payment? What's the number? 250,000.

>> Oh, well, cuz Colorado is crazy expensive. Most of the houses are 385 to

400,000 and with just my income, I'm guessing I'm gonna have to get like half of the down payment to be in my 25% of

my pay. >> Okay. So, how much could you save up each month if savings is covered and you're investing 15%. How much could you throw into a high yield savings for the down payment? >> About 2500 >> per month? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, doing the math on that, that's 30 grand a year, which means it's going to take you >> seven or eight years to get there.

>> Yeah. >> And therefore, we might need to go, all right, we need to up our income. We need to compromise on the type of house we were going to go for. Maybe it's a smaller house further out from the city for now to get our foot in the door.

Those kinds of things. Or you get you make peace with the fact that it's going to take you seven years to buy a home, >> right? and high yield is the best place to plant that. >> If it's going to take you seven years, I would say you can invest the money. Anything that's five plus years, you know, in the market, you're going to you have a better chance of being in the positive the longer you're in the market. But if it's one to two to three years, high yield savings is a much better bet.

>> Got it. Okay. >> But you're doing great. You have an awesome income. You're debtree. I would just sort of refocus because we got off the beaten path with the plan as soon as we got out of debt. That's why I was calling you. I mean, I just paid it off, so >> good for you. And you got the 30,000 already from the inheritance.

>> Um, it's going to be in a couple months.

>> Oh, in a couple months. Okay. Well, in the meantime, any extra money you have is going toward that emergency fund. And I would pause your investing down to 0% because it will light a fire under you and free up money to put in that emergency fund.

>> Okay. Just until I get the emergency fund and then I can go back to >> Exactly. >> Okay. All right.

>> You're doing great. I'm proud of you, Lynette. That's awesome. And listen, don't fall prey.

Listen, Lynette, don't fall prey to your friends telling you it's crazy that you would even think about waiting seven years to buy a house. Don't fall prey to that because again, what the advice George gave you, I know it's going to take seven years and that seems like forever. Uh, but you're still single right now.

>> 38. >> Okay, >> that's okay. Listen, >> average homeowner is what, 40 now?

>> Yeah. And that sucks. The >> number's changed. >> And by the way, that sucks and I hate that. >> It's going to be way longer for me, but that's okay. It's okay. >> Ken is way older than 45, so he can attest. And he's a young buck still.

>> Thank you. But you just confused the entire audience. And I'm not way older.

You think way what what constitutes way >> to Lynette? Seven years is a lifetime,

>> right? I mean, it is, but I'm like, it

is what it is, you know? I I don't want to picture. Your income is going to go up over time. You could meet someone and then have dual income. And so, this is not like a life sentence. Life is going to change. Your dreams are going to change. Your city could change. But in the meantime, just stack as much cash as you can. >> That's right. That's right.

>> Big picture thinking, Lynette. All right. And let me tell you something.

What's Let me tell you what you're dealing with. And I heard it in your voice. And I And I want to encourage you because this happens to all of us.

Great expectations, right? And when the

expectations that we had earlier in life don't pan out, it it sucks, right?

And and and here's what happens. And by the way, this happens to all of us relationally, professionally, physically, right? Uh I think of couples

that maybe want to have babies and it takes years and years and years. You know, there's just so many examples of this. But but it it's okay to allow

yourself to lament that, right?

>> Okay. >> But >> thank you. >> Yeah. Listen, it's okay because I heard you go, I'm 38, you know.

Well, because I mean this is like the first time I started doing retirement. I know it's okay. I got like 30k in retirement. I know >> Lynette, someone out there is 58 feeling like they're too late.

Someone out there is 28 thinking, man, I wish I got this stuff sooner. So, do not beat yourself up for that. >> That's what I'm trying to tell you, Lynette. I heard it and I want to encourage your heart.

You're not Listen, yes, you need to adjust now. the expectations you had for your life in this particular area haven't been met, but it doesn't mean that life in the future cannot still be really really good. And so that's the mindset you got to have.

>> Definitely. I'm just thankful to have the debt paid. Honestly, that ma'am weight off my shoulders. >> Listen, you're in great shape. You have much to be grateful for. Okay. Write down all the things that you're grateful for through this discipline of getting out of debt. Write all that stuff down tonight. And how proud. By the way, add a line. Add a add a column of what your dad would be proud of. Okay. And focus on that. >> Yeah. Get your head. >> God bless you guys. >> You, too.

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All right, our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 28:1. The wicked

flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are bold as a lion. Our quote

of the day from James Clear, the author of Atomic Habits. Your success depends

on the risks you take. Your survival

depends on the risks you avoid.

All right. Thank you, James. >> I'll chew on that. >> Okay. Uh, Anna is joining us in Knoxville, Tennessee. Anna, how can we help? >> Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. I'm so excited to talk to you guys. >> Well, we're excited to talk to you.

What's going on?

>> Well, um, my husband and I are hoping to get our income up and, um, he's been looking to make a career change. Um, just been struggling with kind of the steps to take on that. Does he know?

wondering if you had >> I'm so sorry. Yeah, I interrupted you.

So, I was going to ask, does he know which path he wants to take?

>> Um, right now we're kind of trying to narrow it down a little bit. Um, but

we're pretty sure that he would be good in techn in the field of technology.

>> Okay. And so, when you say try to narrow it down, are we talking about specific types of roles within technology?

>> Yeah. Uh he's he's applied for some positions with uh some companies and uh

hasn't hasn't gone anywhere yet because we were thinking that it would be best

to just get get some get some experience in in the field and then kind of >> what kind of tech jobs is he looking at because that's about the broadest category out there.

Um, so he's applied to some

uh cell phone companies.

>> Yeah. But again, I think we're asking are we talking about programming? Are we talking about engineering? Are we talking about >> sales? Yeah. Like the what what kind of role in tech?

>> So the last the last thing that he mentioned that he was interested in was coding. >> Okay. Has he taken a coding has he taken

a coding course, class, boot camp?

>> He he was looking into that.

>> Well, I'm going to tell you, has he done anything professional? Has he ever drawn any paycheck for coding?

>> No. >> Okay. So, one of the first things I would do, and this we'll we'll kind of pause on this after I say this, is what

good coding boot camps, courses can you take that you can afford, and let's go get that because many times in those uh coding uh courses or co-ops or whatever,

uh they they have placement services.

And so if he wants to get to coding, uh, it might be a good idea to get qualified in coding and then see about the placement as opposed to I'm gonna go get a job at a cell phone company and then tinker around with coding. Now, that would be one thing, but I want to pause here. What's your financial situation?

Because you mentioned you guys need more income. So, what's going on there?

Um, so, so we have a we have a one and a half year old and a baby on the way and so we're looking at just cost cost of

living is going to be increasing. Um,

and so just

uh >> I guess I should have asked the question >> that his paycheck doesn't change all the time. >> Okay, let let me run you through a couple quick things here so George can can plug in here. Uh

what is your combined income? Your income? His income? Give me both of those actually.

>> Oh, okay. Yeah. So, my husband's income right now is

it it

2700 and 3,500 a month. It it fluctuates a

lot. >> Okay. Food service. >> And and and and what does he do?

Uh he he delivers pizzas

>> full time. Oh, that's his full-time job.

>> Um it it's never really been a full-time job. It's been between 30 and 40 hours a

week, sometimes less.

>> Why is he not working more?

Um

he has had some medical uh some medical

issues that have been a setback. Um and we're we're working through that. It's been getting better. >> Okay. And are you are you making any income?

>> Right now I'm doing Door Dash.

>> Okay. >> But I've had I've had some I've had different jobs and than having kids. So >> And do you guys have any debt?

Uh, we have a little bit of medical debt. >> And that's it. How much is that?

>> What's that? >> How much debt?

>> Um, it's it's a little under 3,000.

>> Okay. So, we we definitely have an income and I and that's the primary reason for you calling is we got to get our income up and we do. But for him to

get into tech, there is >> there's always a ladder no matter the industry, right? And so with him not having any tech experience or at this point he has no tech training. That's what I've been asking. Right? So it's going to be very difficult for him to get on an actual tech ladder. He might

go work for a tech company. Not a bad idea, >> but maybe he's in the warehouse or you know what I mean? He's adjacent. Uh which is what sounds like he's been trying to do, but he's still going to have to get some basic training. So, one exercise for both of you that you can do tonight is to get online and in your

area, you go on one of these job websites. There's national boards or you can go look at companies, those local companies that your tech companies and you look at some roles. But what you're trying to do is is research and see what is entrylevel tech in coding look like

and then we could say what does entrylevel work in uh uh uh security

like data security and you know uh data analyst you know all the things get a good view of the landscape and always look for what is the lowest rung on the ladder because that's where he's going to enter with no experience. So then we

step back further and we say what qualifications does he need and we start with does he need a college degree and many times at these tech companies you don't but you do need some type of uh fundamental training okay sometimes we're seeing more and more where companies have their own training program that might be an option but you guys as a young couple with one little one and another one on the way and very little income and you guys are out shupping pizzas and delivering food and I appreciate the hustle there's no shame in that I don't dishonor that but I am saying you need more and you agree that's why you called us.

>> Are you with me so far? Anything that I said that you're not sure about?

>> I'm with you. >> Okay, that's urgent. Like we are urgently figuring out what the plan should be and what the plan could be. In

the interim, I would like to see him get a little bit more aggressive, and I'm going to give him uh a couple of gifts.

So, um we're going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has a career assessment in it, the Get Clear Assessment. 20 minutes. It's absolutely worth it. Yes, ma'am. It's got an AI component to it, and it'll spit out suggestions and that'll help verify or

give him some more ideas. Step one, I'm also going to give him the book, The Proximity Principle, and he needs to read the proximity principle by the end of Sunday night. He should be almost through with it. And this is about how to make good connections because it is

connections that open up and unlock jobs and opportunities. You tracking with me?

So, those two books are my gift, but you guys need to do the research.

>> George, on the money piece, they still got some small debt here. I want to bring you in because we got to hustle through that. Do you guys have anything in in savings?

>> Uh yeah, actually we do. Um we we

actually opened a high yield savings account. Um we have

I think we have about 25,000.

>> You have $25,000 in a savings account? I

guess I should have asked that.

>> You buried the lead there. That's like almost your yearly income.

>> How did you save that up?

Um,

well, I've been doing >> I feel like you're not telling us the truth, Anna. The amount of pausing is giving me some pause. Yeah. >> What's going on?

>> Well, I'm just trying to think through like I've I've had a lot of different things that I've done, too. Um,

>> okay. For the shortage of time, I'm going to interrupt cuz George, tell them what they do with the 25,000.

>> They're paying off the medical debt today. any debt you have is going to get paid with that savings and anything left over is becoming your emergency fund.

That gives you guys some financial cushion and some financial peace as he explores these new options. And so that's that's your your ramp to get into this new field while he's delivering pizzas. And he needs to be working more if if his health can support it. You need to be working more as well cuz this baby's coming and it is going to get more expensive. But it's not hopeless.

We just need to get him the right steps and Ken's resources will do that.

Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 7. A Life Built on Debt Is a Life Built on Risk | April 29, 2026


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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your [music] life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm George Kamel joined [music] by my good pal and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruze. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Muhammad kicks us [music] off in Halifax, Nova Scotia. It's a fun place to go. What's going on, Muhammad?

Hi, how are you? Good. How can we help today? Um I have a question. So, my grandmother

is going to visit me on in July.

Um now, I love her very much. This is more of a love question. I know it's not one of the most smart decision to make.

I drive a really nice car right now. I drive a 20 22 Nissan Pathfinder. I paid

all cash for it. Good. And now when she's coming, I want to get an even better car just because I would love to

spoil her with an even better car.

Um is it wise for me to sell this for

I'm going to probably be able to sell this for 35 and buy uh around a $90,000 car?

For your grandmother?

>> [laughter] >> I'm so confused.

For her to keep?

Yeah, no no no not for her to keep, for me to keep, but just it's just I'm making an impulsive decision because she's coming and I really want her to see how well I'm doing for myself. So, you want to make a six-figure impulsive decision to impress somebody who's there temporarily so that they think you're doing better than you are?

No, I I am doing I can easily I I I could I could pay full cash for that car. That wasn't the question.

The motivation is what we're asking about.

Oh. And it's your grandmother. Out of all people in the world, does she actually Out of all all people in the world, nanas love their grandchildren.

That's like >> [laughter] >> I I have a feeling she would appreciate having like massage seats and you know, and just like uh Are you Are you How How often are we going Are we living in this car for 5 months? Is this Are you even for real?

I am I am I'm being very for real. I went and checked out the car yesterday.

I told the guy I'd come around like 5:00 or 6:00 today and tell him if I want it or not. What car is this?

Uh this is a it's a Yukon.

What does grandma need a Yukon for? Is she sleeping in the back? Is there a mattress?

Oh, no. It's also because well, my grandmother Are you single? >> How old are you, Muhammad? I am single.

I'm I am 22. Okay.

>> of wish you were married cuz your wife would slap you right now if she heard this call. This is insane.

No uh yeah, I know. It's like it's insane, but my parents like when my grandmother comes, she she's like a magnet. So, when she comes to like North America, Where is she coming from? all of our relatives. She's coming She She's coming from India to my my home country.

Okay. And in in their culture, is it big to like, "Hey, look at how impressive my life is?" It's not It's not as so much like that, but um How much do you make a year?

So, I currently own two companies. I started one when I was 16 and one I started 6 months ago. Uh the one I started when I was 16 was a clothing company which does really well for itself. It has nine employees full-time.

I maybe go there twice a week to just look look at stuff. Way to go.

>> And but nothing Uh just just to like the the warehouse we have. >> So, what did your taxes show last year? What did you What did you bring in? What was your taxable income? Uh last year I pulled in around 250. Amazing. Dude, you're crushing it. If I'm grandma, that's what I'm proud of. Not the car upgrade. >> you. You're a successful, bright young man. She loves you for you. Yeah.

>> car is going to be the ticket for her to love you even more, this relationship is built on on a farce. Oh, no. It's It's not like it's she's going to love me more cuz of the car. No, you just want to impress your grandmother. Then just rent a car for 5 months if you want to impress her.

No, Muhammad, you got to like you got to detach your identity from all this stuff. This is not who you are.

Like if you woke up tomorrow If you woke up tomorrow and you were driving a Honda Civic, would that absolutely trip you out? And if it would, then I would I would ask some deeper questions of what's going on. How much your identity is wrapped up in this?

I have a Honda Civic right now. I have my second car is a Honda Civic. So, you have two cars. I use it for short trips.

Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. You got two cars. I use it for short trips. It's It's really nice.

>> some problems, Muhammad. Right now you don't have enough. Oh my gosh. I do I do my You need some reality. And I you've you've done so well and I think that's caused you to go, "Well, I have to live a certain way because I've done so well." And the more you can realize that your identity is not wrapped up in stuff and how much money you make, the better relationships you're going to have and the better life you're going to have. >> Listen, we're not mad at $90,000 cars.

And if you can pay cash for a $90,000 car and that's what you want, Muhammad, because you want to upgrade your car, you enjoy cars, and whatever the motivation is, but asking yourself if nobody sees this purchase, would I still want it? And if the answer is, "Yeah, I still would. I would still want this." Like if that was your if that was the beginning of this call, um it'd be a green light for me cuz I think you could afford it and you would be fine. But what I'm scared of is

that if you make this purchase because of the motivation that you just explained to us, you have set up a pattern in your life and a lane at which is unrealistic and

unfulfilled. It's an unfulfilling lane that you're setting up that if I just get this purchase, I'm going to feel good from the ego stroke of my grandmother who says like, "Oh my gosh, you're just amazing and look how successful you are." Whatever Whatever you need from her, whatever that need is, that need is still going to be there and it's going to and you're going to look to other people to fulfill it. And so, I want Muhammad to be content and

happy with what Muhammad has regardless of what anyone thinks and especially grandma. I mean, my gosh, granny's and nanas, they're like the number one fan of grandkids.

Like they she will be happy to be in a Honda Civic, you know? [snorts] What does she What does she drive? That's the question. What's she used to?

Is she rolling around in Rolls-Royces?

Uh no, but she she Well, my parents are

doing very well for themselves, too. And they have obviously spoiled my grandmother a lot. And her husband did very very well. So, my grandfather who just passed away this January, um so uh

she drives a she does not drive, but she gets driven around in a Toyota Land Cruiser which which >> Yeah, that's right. I think you come from a successful family. You do. You come from a successful family and you want to graft into that message that's been told to you.

And what we're giving you is is a different perspective on life. And again, it's not all of this stuff is bad, but when the stuff has you at that point to the point that you're going to go and make a purchase again, solely out of wanting someone to feel good about it and and feel good about you because of this purchase, all of it. I just don't like the motivation and I think it's it's going to end up you're going to end up in a in a like a rat in a wheel running and running and running the whole your whole life cuz it's not going to be grandma next, it's going to be the girl next, it's going to be a parent, it's going to You know what I mean?

Plug in anybody. And then the goal post moves, too. Cuz now it's like, "Well, you don't have a sports car. You need to be nice to have a Lamborghini to the mix if you really want to keep up." And then it becomes a lifestyle you you can't keep up with.

Even if you can afford it, you admitted this was impulsive and there's better ways to spend this money, right? Do you have a mortgage? Yeah. Yeah, no.

rent. That was my second question. I have two options right now. I rent a two-bedroom apartment. I live alone.

Don't need two bedrooms. I know I know that's what but I like an open space.

Now that grandma's coming and she's a magnet, she's going to pull maybe my parents or my brothers and everyone here. Hence, I'm going to need a little bigger of a space. I was talking to a realtor yesterday and she she showed me this house that's up for sale for 395.

Now, I could scramble and gouge and and get that 395 to get that house. How And

she gave me a second option. Near where I live, they built new townhouses that are up for rent. I currently pay 2,500.

Those townhouses [music] are up for rent for 3,500. >> it's all the same philosophy. No, I would not be making an an impulse I would not make an impulse decision on buying a house, Muhammad. They can afford to go stay somewhere >> and wait till [music] they leave and then you make a decision for your future for you. No, we do not need to be impulsing townhouses. >> to drop money, I'd rather be on a house than a car. But do it for you and for nobody else.

>> [music]

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Patty is up next in Salt Lake City.

Patty, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, how [music] are you? We're doing great. What's your question today?

My husband has worked for his parents,

his family farm for the last 31 years.

They're super controlling.

Is it crazy for me to accept a plan for succession?

They control his salary, his time. They

even control the house we live in. Like we paid for half of the house and they refused to put any of it in our names.

Like we can't even remodel it. I went to them and cuz it's built in the 70s. I have like electric blue bathrooms. I asked them to remodel it and or he wouldn't ask them. I asked them

by a letter. They wouldn't even respond, but they told him that I wasn't grateful enough for the house that they provided for us.

But we paid half of it.

So it's paid for in cash, but they paid half, you paid half.

Yes.

This is insane, Patty. You know that.

Nothing about this is normal. Okay, so for on one end of the spectrum that they control his income and time, yada yada.

That would be like having a boss, right? You're the company You could say Dave Ramsey controls my >> [laughter] >> income and time.

Yeah, so there's a level of like I'm working for a person and they have set up a company in a certain way.

But the housing situation

for sure is not Yeah, you guys are not in a good spot because if the house is not in your name and you've put half of your money into it, you legally have no assets, right? From a from a home perspective.

Correct.

What is your husband saying? These are his parents. Does he see that as not

good for your future?

He doesn't really mind. He thinks that

they will just be fair

when it when the time comes. But my

thing is I will ask him like we have no retirement plan with him because of course you expect your ground on a farm to be your retirement plan.

And that is fine.

When we started this 30 years ago, we used to have family meetings and it would be like, oh, we're going to let you start signing checks. We're going to let you do this. We might have you buy some more ground and put it in your name. None of that ever came to fruition. And so now here we are 30

years later.

And we have nothing

If they were going to be fair, they would have done it by now. And that's so that's a that's a marriage problem, Patty, between you and your husband deciding what you want your life to look like. And it's as much his fault and your

fault as the parents' fault. They've just set up the life they want and you guys have chosen to go along with it until you're fed up and you've called this show. So at that point it's going to be yeah, you and your husband have to figure out which one's your future to look like.

In a pretty big way cuz it'll probably if you do it the right way, I think the healthiest plan is going to include a lot of boundaries that have not existed for 30 years and I don't know if his parents will be up for the task, but your husband kind of has to decide, do I want my my future and my marriage and my family be taken care of or am I going to just still be a child and still do what mom and dad say, right? I mean to a degree.

Oh, absolutely. I don't think they're going to take kindly to him all of a sudden having a backbone, do you?

No, no, they won't. And and he knows.

Like he tells me he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. And when I ask him, I'm like, so basically we can't make a plan for our family. We have

I mean you can't even get the money out of this house cuz you have you can't even sell it.

No, we can't. Okay, my question, Patty, why did you write them a letter? Why did you not just call and talk to them? Is the relationship strained right now that you can't just call and have a discussion about it?

I can talk to my mother-in-law, but the father-in-law doesn't talk on phone or you know, or he doesn't talk or you know, he doesn't want to. So I just thought it would be easier then I could just express myself a little better with that. And I thought my mother-in-law would call me back, but she didn't. And then she just went to my husband and she wouldn't even show it to my father-in-law cuz she said I wasn't grateful enough.

Because he's very There's some narcissistic behavior that I'm I'm capturing here. And I think this is going to have to come between your husband and his parents. It's your Yeah, I mean at this point, Patty, it's you and your husband that it's the issue.

There's a marriage issue between you and your husband and there's a business family issue between your husband and his parents and it's going to get awkward. And for him to continue to choose them over you, Patty, That's what hurts. That's where the resentment is coming I mean I hear it all in your voice, which I get. I would be pissed too, probably. But also have you said anything for 30 years?

Oh, yes, lots of times, lots of times.

And so what does he say? What does your husband say?

He just shut down. He shut down and he said Yeah, you have you guys need to go to marriage You guys need to go to marriage counseling. You'll have a breakdown in your marriage.

>> He showed up for two times and then he wouldn't do it again because they told him that it was crazy, too. Okay, so well, Patty, you have some decisions to make about your life. So I don't I don't know if we can fix that on a on a 7-minute call. I'm so sorry, but Fixing 31 years of toxic relationships >> Yeah, so I mean it would I mean there would be some ultimatums for me.

Not for like a not in a threatening way, but just in a hey, I'm sick and tired of this and I don't feel safe. I don't feel like we have a future. I don't feel secure. I have a lot of fear.

I don't like how I've been treated in this part. And and and Patty, if you've had stuff in the past that you've done wrong, admit that, too, right? I mean like it's not like it's all their fault.

Um But if my but yeah, if I'm married to a guy and I and as a wife that you're saying all these things and he doesn't at least listen, take into consideration, have conversations about it, figure out a way to make this life work for you. I don't I don't know what else I don't know what else to tell you.

Yeah, I that's kind of what I thought.

And he he makes it like when I say, so basically we are not going to know what we're going to get until your parents are no longer with us. And he'll go, so now you want my parents dead. And I'm like, that's not the case. This is just common sense in planning. And so

Well, then yeah, I think you guys need a Yeah, I think I think a ask would be that we need to create our own retirement plan. How old are you guys?

55 and 52. Okay, well, I would say for

me to feel secure secure, I need a path

of retirement that has nothing to do with your family and the farm because nothing is documented. And so there's not security there. We don't have security in it because we don't know what's going on. And so I need to start I want to start putting money away for our family in retirement, right? And you guys put that in the you know, and he I don't know if he'll go for it, but that's what that would be a plan. Are you working outside the home, Patty, or have you?

I have. I have. So about 10 years ago, I

started my own business and I was super blessed. And so I have been putting away

for me, you know, or putting into retirement since stuff, SEP plans, Roth plans.

That's what I would be doing. It's creating your own little island to be insulated from the chaos that could ensue.

But like I was just told like that he's

like, well, now you're becoming financially independent

from me and you don't need me. And I was like, yeah, that's been part of my plan because you just didn't care for our family and you just do everything with your family. So I had to take care of myself.

So I would continue that. Yeah, in conversations moving forward, something John Delony always talks about is um the more you point the finger, your family, you, you know, all of that, immediately defenses go up. Like that's just human nature. You're immediately He's going to want to defend himself and you know, I mean that's that's natural.

So as much as you can talk about you, Patty, and what you can control is you.

Um and what it's doing to you. And um

that's how I would that's how I would approach the conversations with your husband. But yeah, you guys need some um

deep untangling. And there are a lot of generational farmers that we've talked to on this show. It's very difficult from a financial perspective, a passing down generationally between siblings. I mean there's there's just a there's a lot there and people have done it really well and communicated very clear expectations. Everyone is in the know. It's, you know, very very um

I don't know. It's been very clear.

>> [music] >> This sounds like the opposite, Patty, that it's very very muddled and

and a lot of questions. So All you can do is continue to ask for clarity and set up your own boundaries and set up your own financial world. Not because you don't trust your husband, but because you need security in your own life. Whether that's with him or without him. You deserve that. So I appreciate the call. >> [music] >> This is going to take a lot of untangling and I don't know that you can do it in their lifetime, but I I hope there's a lot of redemption and healing on the other side.

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>> [music]

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Joseph is in Columbia, South Carolina up next. What's going on Joseph?

Hey, what's going on man? Not much.

>> I am uh 24 years old living paycheck to paycheck have been since I was 18. Can't never seem to get ahead.

I'm just trying to figure out some way to get ahead. Mhm. Um What do you think

is the cause of that if you look back over those six years?

I've just just been one thing after another. Every Every time I get ahead get money saved up whatever else something happens something breaks something and I just I can't never seem to get ahead. So you got a lot of emergencies. Murphy's moved in with you. Is it What's your income right now? Has it been going up over those six years?

Um no not really. Um uh I'm I'm making 22 an hour right now which would be what like 45 a year?

Yeah. What are you doing um in that career? What is that job?

Right now I am a service technician.

Okay. What does the ladder look like in that world? If you were to move up and up and up?

I can uh I can move up pretty well um

within within probably the next I've

only been doing this for uh six months now.

Um but majority of the time within about eight years I can move up to a position where I'm making a hundred grand if uh work really hard at it. But right now it's just trying to make it to that point. >> Yeah. Well how much debt do you have?

I'm sitting at $26,000 in debt. Break

that down for us. What's What types of debt What's the balances?

I have 15,000 in debt on a truck

um truck loan.

Um I have 6,000 in debt on a boat loan

and then the rest of it is stuff I did when I was younger dumb and stupid and it's like uh uh Amazon Affirm stuff or Yeah, buy now pay later all that. Okay, so what I'm hearing is you said man life just been coming at me. I've never heard of a boat coming at you. You know what I mean?

Like that's the >> [laughter] >> That's true. But you see what I'm saying here? If I looked in the mirror I go man like yes, life has happened. There have been some emergencies but that's not the problem.

The problem is I want some stuff and I can't wait till I have the money to buy the stuff. So I'm going to borrow money from other people. And so if we can get out of that mentality then we can get you out of this cycle. But it's going to have to start with you saying I'm done with debt.

I'm never touching this stuff again. Tried it got burnt. I'm going to sell the boat. I'm going to work those three jobs.

Well, the thing about that is so um

when I turned 18 um my my grandma had had some money she left to me. It paid for my truck and my boat. I I didn't know anything on them.

I bought them right out in cash. My truck broke down five years later I had to buy another one. It It was that big of a money pit had to buy another one.

My boat motor that I had it blew up had to buy another one. I'm in my boat any and every chance I can get.

>> Okay Joseph Joseph Joseph Joseph we got to we got to change our language, okay?

You did not have to. No one had a gun to your head that you had to, okay?

You wanted to. That was a want. Well, well. >> okay, so just I'm I'm I'm being for real though because when there's a mentality of this thing breaks so that means I

immediately and you're normal. This We get calls like this all the time. People this is people's mentality. Well, there's no other option. I have to go. I have to go and get a car loan. I have to go and buy a new boat. I have to.

No, you don't. You really don't. I mean You'd like to. Yeah. I mean you Like you could you could get a ride from a friend.

You could bike. Like you know what I'm saying? [laughter] Like I know those are not >> Could get a canoe. I know those are not realistic. You You could get a good good canoe. Those are not realistic. I get that but the point is when you start separating needs and wants from like a very extreme degree it causes you then to say okay, this is not a this is not a need. I now have to make other decisions if debt is not on the table. So that means I have to go buy a $2,000 truck

that barely putts putts putts down the road but it's going to but that's what I can afford. I don't have money for a boat so I'm going to have to say no. I'm going to say no to myself. I can't get a boat. So So there are this you do have to um

filter through some of these decisions because that is what's caused you to be here. And when you go that extreme Joseph which it sounds extreme but when you do I'm telling you every purchase you make you're going to be thinking do I need this? And in this point of you getting out of debt and all of it a lot of it's going to be like nope, I don't need it. Nope, I don't need it. And Saturdays I'm going to be working.

Sundays I'm going to be working cuz I need to be making some extra money to pay all this stuff off. Um and then once we have money then we can start saving towards goals of things that we want cuz boats are not bad and trucks are not bad but the way we've gone about them has caused a lot of stress and a paycheck to paycheck living because you have payments. Like if all those payments were freed up every month you wouldn't be paycheck to paycheck. Yeah, what's your truck payment?

My truck payment's actually it's only uh $426.

Okay, do me a favor never say only in front of a payment again, Joseph.

You hear that? Cuz that was you justifying the payment.

Yeah. You don't have You don't have that money. You're living paycheck to paycheck. $425?

That'd change your life. If that was just sitting in your account month to month. So we got four 425 on that.

What's the boat payment?

The boat payment is 160. Okay, and then

where are the rest of those payments for all the other stuff you mentioned? Um uh one of them's $60.

The other one's $80.

Um and I think the other one's there's one more and it's like 60 bucks. Okay.

Okay, so we're over $700 in debt.

>> is what I have. So if I gave you a $700 raise would that help you get out of this paycheck to paycheck cycle? It definitely would. You see where we're going with this? It's time to aggressively attack the debt with no other focus You don't need to be on a boat. You don't have time.

You're going to be working too much.

That's the great news. So what could you sell the boat for today?

Not much. It's a It's a piece of junk honestly. The motor's the only thing that's worth anything and that's cuz it's brand new.

I'm so confused. So did you buy it as a piece of junk?

So no. I bought it in in 2018 as a

decent boat and over the years it has proven to be a piece of junk. >> It sounds like you destroy [laughter] everything you touch. So you put a $6,000 motor on a piece of junk. >> [clears throat] >> motor on a PIECE OF JUNK.

>> JOSEPH. [laughter] OOF. See bad, right? Not good. Would you agree?

I do. So far >> Okay, great. I'm glad I'm glad we're like tracking. Some people you know you don't really track. We're tracking with Joseph. Okay. >> I'm not trying to justify but at the time at the time I was >> Continue. This is going to be good.

60 to 80 hours a week I was making the

money. I It wasn't a problem. Um

but uh um But life happens and you have risk in your life and suddenly it does become a problem when things change. That's what That's what happens with debt. That's what happens with debt.

Every Everyone's fine. Everyone can afford the the payment. They can afford the car loans. Everything's fine until

there's a job loss. >> Until a kid gets sick. Until whatever life happens and you've built your life on risk and it all comes tumbling down.

So, Joseph, I'm excited for you. I feel a lot of work in Joseph's future and I >> I can't wait. And I really think, Joseph, you can get out of this. Yeah, Joseph, here's the truth.

When I was your age, I was $40,000 in consumer debt and I wasn't even making 45 grand like you are. And I got out. And the way I did it was by cutting my expenses down to nothing and working two or three extra jobs. And then all that margin I created by doing that, I threw only at my smallest debt.

The rest you're going to make minimum payments. That's called the debt snowball method.

So, hang on the line. I'm going to give you That's the one thing it does is it helps you create margin to throw at your debt.

But you've got to actually do it. You've got to look at that budget every day cuz that's going to be your ticket to saying no to the next thing that's going to be happening to you that you had to do.

Hey, Joseph, call us back though. We're cheering you on. If you need help through this process, we are here cuz we I really do believe in 2 years your life could look so different financially. >> to be a success story. Hang on the line. We're going to get you EveryDollar and a copy of my book Breaking Free from Broke. That'll give you the road map to getting out of this thing.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Marie is in Columbus, Ohio up next.

Marie, how can we help today?

>> [music] >> Um hi. Um and thank you for taking my call. Um I started listening to you guys in 2020 and by that time I think I was in a bad situation by then.

Um my current live-in boyfriend um who

I plan to serve a 30-day notice to very soon. Um he ran up two of my credit cards and I following the baby steps and I paid everything off except for those two credit cards and it was actually the baby steps who that helped me realize that those two cards have been run up.

I didn't realize it at the time.

Um and I guess I'm just looking for

I guess a way through to figure out

um if there's a if there's a possibility for me to recoup my money back. Yeah.

So, he >> for the paying for it cuz it's on my credit. >> Yeah. Well, was he an authorized user on your card? How did he get access?

Um he was not an authorized user on my card. Um so at the time still we're living together and um we had a mosquito, tick, flea service that he was we were supposed to be paying for.

Um they said they wanted to do like the automatic um they wanted to charge us automatically and I was at home at the time and so I used my credit card and gave it to them and he said you know, don't worry about it. I'll pay for the service. And so that's how it

started. >> So, he grabbed your credit card while he was at home? Saw it on a table? What happened? >> No, I gave it to them. >> You did it. Okay. With the promise that he was going to pay it back.

Yeah, he and they were being charged on the card every month. It's a monthly recurring charge and then he would you know Pay for it. That was part of one of his bills. He was part of the household.

But then what happened? He you said he ran it up.

Well, yeah, I didn't realize he had run it up because I um he was just supposed to be paying that recurring charge.

Um and then at the it was in 2023 that I

realized that this card had like a really big balance on it and I was like, "Hey, what are you doing?" And I said and I noticed like your payments aren't covering the charges and he told me "Don't worry about it. I got it. I've been paying it.

I'm going to keep paying it." And he said, you know, like we haven't done this before. >> That was 3 years ago. So, what happened since then with the balance?

It it continued to balloon it continued to balloon and >> the credit card statement say?

Is it all this one company on this credit card?

This particular what? Yes. Um he actually ended up doing it to two, but what I was on my radar was this one credit card, one company. Okay. Well, if it truly was without your knowledge, it was an authorized use, that's fraud. And you can call your credit card company to >> the card to the company.

Well Do you know what I mean from a legal perspective? She Yeah, she >> other things on this outside of that flea and tick service? >> I'm wondering. Is he buying other stuff?

>> Yes, that's what and that's what I didn't realize. So, he was supposed to be paying the recurring charges for the flea and tick company. But then I started looking in there when I find noticed that the credit card balance had gone up and then he started using I saw he was using the card to pay for our car insurance.

Um you know, like $700 to pay for the

car insurance >> own car insurance? For yours or his or both? Ours cuz we were in the house together and he had two cars on the insurance. I had one car on the insurance. The insurance was another bill he was supposed to pay.

I did not know he used my card to pay the insurance.

And then I started seeing other transactions for like Advance Auto Parts and car parts this and car parts that.

>> Okay. And yeah. Marie, I have a question. random other stuff.

>> For the credit card statement every month, where was that being mailed to or sent to?

You? >> being mailed to our address, our home. And you just didn't see it or he would take the bill and you never saw the bill.

I never saw the bill. He would take the bill because he was supposed to be paying it for the Green Nuts company.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And so I just didn't I didn't think anything of it that he was taking the bill because he was supposed to be paying it. >> this, Marie, so some of this from a legal perspective, George, correct me, but some of this if it really was without your knowledge, I think you can flag that as fraud. But Marie, if you willingly gave your credit card over and you just have a crappy boyfriend who's not paying it, that's more on you guys.

That's not a legal standing. >> Especially after 3 years and all of a sudden you're calling the credit card company and saying, "Hey, there's some fraudulent charges here from 3 years ago." Yeah, I didn't call the credit card company and say there were fraudulent charges. I noticed that

I didn't tell say that. Mhm. Um I went to him and said, "Hey, what are you doing? Like you're supposed to be paying these bills." Have you called and put a freeze on that I'm sorry. Have you called and um put a freeze on anything on your credit or this account or for more money not to be taken out?

Well, by that time I had um so what ended up happening is um I told it what ended up happening is he just stopped paying the bill.

Just period. >> Okay. And I said "Why aren't you making the payment?" He said, "I'm sorry. I missed the payment." And he was going off of the fact that we had done this before. I I haven't just met the man. I've known him for a very long time >> Sure. He's used the my credit card to do other

things like buy tires and he paid the bill and we just kept moving. It had

never been an issue. Okay. So, from this from today where we stand, Marie, how much is on the card balance?

As of right now, the card balance is $8,100, but that's because I paid it down. Yes.

Okay. >> it was $10,900.

And are you guys broken up? What's the what's the status of the relationship?

I don't consider myself to be in a relationship with him anymore and I plan to send him with an eviction notice pretty soon because What do you mean you don't consider it? Are you guys broken up or not?

Um It's not like a feeling. Well, I don't consider you know, I don't identify as a single person. It's just did you guys break up or did you not?

I have broken up. He keeps saying he's in a relationship and I can't change his mind. Who's he saying it to? Yeah, yeah, so okay. So, yeah, so you're you're done. He's he's in denial.

He's in denial. Okay. Is his name on the lease?

I own the home. Okay. So, there's no lease. I own the home and he won't leave. >> Yeah, so that needs to be a sheriff when they do show up and evict him, correct?

Cuz this has gotten so entangled.

>> proceedings. >> Yes, from a um from a financial perspective, so entangled. And this is what happens when people commingle finances when you're not married. You have no legal protection, really, um What? on your end. >> that in 2020 once I started listening to you guys. >> Yes, so I'm so sorry. So

>> Okay, so you got $8,000 left. So Marie, we got to figure out is that the only debt you have is this card?

Um he did the same similar thing to a

Lowe's card. I didn't Now that card I didn't know he was using that at all.

Okay, how much is on that? >> And um the current balance is now $4,900,

but he had ran it up to like $5,600.

>> Okay. And outside of those two bills, I have no other balances because I started with your debt snowball >> Oh, yes, you said that. Okay, perfect. Okay. So what I would do is I would become I would investigate as much as I can calling these two credit card companies and in good standing of faith

with what you can say honestly, yes, these were charges I did not know about.

You probably can't say about about the flea tick company because you willingly gave over your credit card and he just never paid you back and that's between you guys. But from a legal standpoint, here are charges that I did not know about and I would try. I would see what you know see if they'll reverse it. Yeah, if they can reverse any of it.

Um I don't know if they will cuz it's been so many years, but it would be amazing if not. And then if it doesn't, Marie, it's I mean yeah, this gets chalked up to $12,000 of stupid tax as what we call it of just like a really hard lesson, which is so frustrating for you.

uh not fun lesson to learn if you know what I mean if this is the bills that you have to end up paying cuz it's all in your name. Um but I would cut off any

any access of any accounts

from him and making sure he has no access to you financially. Um and yeah. And I would go on to every credit bureau's website, TransUnion, Equifax, all of them and freeze your credit completely so that nobody can open up any accounts in your name.

He didn't do it to any other card.

Just those two and he hasn't done it and it just after >> care. >> As far as you know I don't trust him.

I've already checked. No, he hasn't done it >> freeze your credit. >> Freeze your credit. Do not No, I don't trust him. >> [music] >> You know what he would do when he gets pissed that you evict him. I mean uh-uh, nope. I am >> closing down every credit card account.

You can still pay it off after that, but close them down, freeze your credit, and get this guy out of your life and then clean up the debt yourself. This is not going to be fun, but it'll be a a lesson well learned. You'll never do this one again.

No, I won't.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union [music] studio.

I'm George Kamel, joined by Rachel Cruze. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

So Rachel, we recently just took a call from a lady who was going through a hard time because she's had this sort of toxic relationship. The ex is living in her house who she now has to evict. He's been using her credit cards with and without her knowledge, running up 13 grand in credit card debt. And it just was a great reminder of why we tell people to not combine your life and your money before marriage.

>> Cuz some of it it wasn't outrageous stuff, right? It was like our car insurances. We're just going to pay them together, right?

and it ends up costing you a lot of money. That's what we end up finding over and over again cuz usually the person that is the financial responsible one ends up getting the bad end of the deal, right? It's usually the one that's not great with money ends up kind of mooching or figuring out how to like not necessarily know Yeah, I don't think they're always malicious by doing that. It's just the way it happens.

Uh and when you're not married, yeah, there's no protection for you. >> Oof. And what's funny is we get a lot of flack for our advice that you should combine finances once you're married.

Yes, and they all get so angry at that.

They want to combine when they're not, but once they're married, they want to stay independent. >> Yes, I I'm like, "Okay, so let's stay codependent while we're not married and once we're married, we want to be independent." >> Right. That is insanity. Yep, crazy.

So >> So aside from any of like your your faith background and some moral judgment on living together, it is just a really bad idea to combine your financial life, to cosign, to add someone as an authorized user, or to buy a house with someone.

Not good. Not good. So much risk, so much drama, and you're assuming everything works out perfectly and this show would not exist if everything always worked out perfectly. >> We wouldn't have jobs without this. >> Or on the other side of it when they go, "Well, I could handle the payment until I couldn't. Well, everything was great until I found out he was Yeah, and honestly, it just adds to

um I think more of the heartbreak because not only when when you break up and you got to untangle everything, not only is it just your heart's broken, right? If or the situation is really sad cuz you've been you were obviously very close to that significant other to share finances. And when they when you break up, if you break up, um not only are you dealing with like the heartache of just the breakup, but then you're sitting there trying to pull your credit report, right?

>> and guilt and resentment and why did I waste so many years with that person and tried so hard all to leave with this

mess that I have to clean up. It just sort of makes you look in hindsight to realize how messy it was and how you didn't see it. You were too close to it.

That's right. So clearly, you guys, do not combine your finances until you are married. And when you are married, yes,

we are a proponent of combining your finances, sharing a checking account when both incomes or one income hits the household. That is the household budget. We both have a say in it when we're married. We both have opinions.

We both are able to agree on this is what we're what we're doing with our money cuz when you do that, you agree on your life at that point and where you're going. Now, there's always the asterisk if there is um if the if there is a divorce coming, if there is abuse, addiction. Like there are situations that you have to protect yourself 100%.

>> Yes, yes, that's right. >> Protect yourself from this person.

>> Yep, that's right. Um but for all the other marriages in the in the world that are just going along, I'm telling you, combine your combine your finances. Be one in that and it creates so much unity. >> Yeah.

And the other thing is you notice she wasn't paying attention. She wasn't checking the credit card statement. She was assuming that he was telling the truth. And so you've got to stay on top of this.

Your money is your responsibility and nobody else's. So don't ever assume that they've got it under control.

So there's our soapbox. We are now stepping off. Although I liked I liked the the height boost it gave me, but you know. Thanks for listening to our TED Talk. >> Back down to earth. All right, Karen is in Toledo up next. Karen, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you. What's going on?

Um so my husband and I can't decide if we can afford a new vehicle or a new to

us vehicle um for 30 to 40,000 dollars

um just with our other expenses, um our mortgage, and potential other uh expenses with our 100-year-old home as well.

All right. Walk us through this. How much money do you guys have right now saved up?

So we have about 120 in our savings.

Awesome. And you guys have any debt?

Um we have our mortgage, but no other debt. Okay. And how what's your household income?

Um so I just went part-time, so it was 180, now it's going to be about 160.

That's still a great income. Okay. So what's the what's the argument about?

This sounds all reasonable. You're going to pay cash. It's not a huge part of your world. Are you going to buy it used or brand new?

Um well, I previously would have bought it new, but since being married, we're probably going to get a new to us, but maybe a year or two, maybe three years old. Okay. And your is your husband not wanting to do this or you?

Um so my husband does not want to buy a vehicle. I do want to buy a vehicle just because I think we need the space. We have two small old cars. We have a 2017

and a 2014 car.

So um Space for kids or what?

Um we do have a new baby and then we also have a large dog. So, yes. Okay.

So, new baby, large dog, you want more space, and he thinks it's a waste of money? Um, so he thinks that >> part of of spending that much money, or is it the idea that you guys don't need a car at all?

Um, so he agrees we do need a car, but it's the financial aspect of it just because we live in a 100-year-old house.

Um, we we're living on borrowed time with our AC furnace units, um, potentially a new roof, potentially a new sewer pipe. I mean, all of this is all functioning now, but it's just kind of we're on borrowed time for all these very expensive items. >> add it up if everything hit the fan and everything went out at the exact same time, what would that cost you guys?

So, the sewer is probably about 15. Um, AC furnace, I would have to say probably about 68,000.

Um, and for a roof, we don't know the roof.

We haven't looked into quotes cuz it's working well now. That's probably in the next couple of years or so. Okay. Um, Cuz I'm just doing some quick math that if you guys have 120 saved, if you had an emergency fund of 40,000, if that was a fully funded emergency fund for you guys, I'm not sure what your household expenses are per month, but that would be a hefty good emergency fund.

Um, you'd have 80,000 left. Let's say you spent half of that on a car, you'd have 40,000 left. And if everything hit the fan, I think you'd still have enough to cover all of that, right?

Uh, yes, but that's very scary to think about. And then, plus we just didn't know with having a mortgage, we still have about 130,000 to owe on that, if

that's something we should be prioritizing over purchasing a car.

>> Um, yeah, I mean, buying [clears throat] a new car is totally acceptable in baby steps four, five, and six, which is where you guys are. Your life is a priority. And so, if you need the car for your life, because your lifestyle, you guys are doing it right. And I think having $60,000 still left over after covering the car and the emergencies, you're going to knock out the house fast, knowing you guys.

You're going to just start throwing chunking money away at that thing after the renovations are done, repairs, the car is here. Now you've sort of freed up all of that savings and money, right? Your future income? Right.

That that is very true.

>> I hear you, but you would have enough still in savings to cover those things, and they have not happened yet. And more than likely, they'll be staggered staggered while you can be saving money on top of that. So, it's not like your savings completely stops after you buy this car. Pick it back up and save some more if you guys want.

And then, if you have too much in savings, you throw some at the house, right? And keep And I'll I'll earmark each savings account. One is for the car, one is for the house stuff.

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>> John is in Richmond, Virginia up next.

John, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, guys. Absolutely.

What's your question today? Got a I've got I feel like I've hit the job lottery. Um, kind of a specialist in my field, and and I recently

just got a humongous increase in income.

Um, my wife is also getting a raise starting in July. So, we're suddenly

we feel like we're kind of suddenly wealthy, but I'm kind of panicking because I don't know what to do, and I'm really behind on my retirement, and I'm I'm 48 years old almost, so kind of lost

as to what to do. I'm happy, but I'm nervous. Yeah, I know. That's actually [laughter] a good feeling, John. That tells me you're going to be very wise with this and cautious and actually use it to build wealth. If you were just like, "Yeah, I get double my income. We're going to go buy some stuff." I'd be like, "All right, we got to slow down." So, walk us through this. What is your household income now? What will it be?

Okay, so, um, it's going to be 330.

Fantastic. >> right. Yeah, it's I think I think we're

getting about 120 thousand between the both of us increase all of a sudden. So, are you both getting increases or just one of you?

Both of us. Are you both are? And it just happens to fall at the same time.

Yeah. Yeah, mine just my my new position just started. My wife starts in July, so, you know, Okay.

This is great. Congratulations, John.

Good for you guys. That's Where are you guys at financially? Do you have any debt? What's that?

Um, well, we have our mortgage. We owe 214 on our house. Um, I we do have two used car loans, um,

that are fairly recent. And that's it.

That's it for debt. No credit card debt.

>> What's the balances on the cars?

Uh, combined at 24,000. Okay. How much do you guys have in savings right now?

Uh, 22,000.

Okay. Is that just liquid or is that retirement?

It's liquid. Okay. And then, how >> My retirement My retirement is very low.

My retirement's like 40 5,000 dollars.

>> 45, okay. What's your wife's? Yeah.

Uh, she's her retirement's at like 340,000 or so. Okay, so hers is Okay,

hers is more.

Yeah. Okay, great. So, um, yeah, so I would make a plan to

probably feel like you didn't get a raise for a hot second once it starts,

uh, to get these cars paid off. So, pay off the 24,000. And honestly, you could do it with the next paycheck.

If you take your next paycheck plus most of the savings, these car loans are knocked out, and now you free up those payments for the rest of your life.

Yeah, that's right. And And the cars are fairly new, even though they're used, so I think they'll be fine, but yeah, so so we have like like basically that leaves us with the little bit we have in our checking account, and that drains our savings {slash} emergency fund, so Yep, so then you'll bring it back Yeah, then you'll bring it back up with the new income.

Um, and have a good fully funded emergency fund. And all this hits in July. We're what? It's almost May. So, that's 2 months. Yeah, so I would I would throw all I would throw your savings at this car. Uh, you'll have a little bit left on it on one of them.

Um, and keep a thousand dollars in there. And go ahead and pay everything off. And then, once July hits, you guys start really stocking away some money for a fully funded emergency fund. And then, beyond that, John, you just go down the baby steps. You guys need to invest 15% of your income into retirement. Throw all the extra you can

at the house, okay? Um, and have some

fun in there, too, right? If you guys want to take a trip or something, that's okay. Um, but have an aggressive goal to pay off this house. I mean, if you guys said, "Hey, what if we did this in 2 years?" Right?

your Roth's and your 401k, even. So, >> you guys 15% of 330 is almost 50 grand.

So, that's over 4 grand a month you guys are going to be putting away, and that's without any employer match.

So, I did the math for you, John. >> My My company won't start letting me have a

retirement for a year, and my job just now started. So, I'm kind of like, well, well, do I start like Do I talk to a financial advisor, get money Well, you can still You can still do a backdoor Roth IRA. Yeah, I would do the Roth. And then, I would just put some money Um, yeah, I would sit down with a financial advisor.

I'd probably open up like an index fund or something and just throw some money in investing.

being invested. Okay.

And then, and then once the 401k is available next year, then maybe, you know, turn down the the index fund and put put it the rest in the 401k, cuz you'll have great tax benefits with that. But even in the meantime, I mean, 15 grand would fully fund two backdoor Roth IRAs for you and your spouse.

Right. So, you still have options even before you can contribute to the employer plan. So, let's walk through this real quick for you, John. How much money would you free up? How much could you throw if you didn't have those car payments? How much could you set aside every month in savings?

With the new income?

With the new income. >> a daughter that's I have a daughter that's starting college. My new income is 330,000.

Um, the college expects us to pay, uh, about 30,000 a year, uh, for my daughter. And we're not we don't want to take out loans for it. We want to pay it. So, my bills are my bills are going to be like 12,000 um, a month on average

with all that That's without the car payments or with?

That's that's without car payments.

Okay.

Great, but you're still going to be taking home like 20k a month.

Yes. Okay, so you still have eight grand to put away when all said and done if you do it right.

Are we taking home eight grand? How much are we taking home a month because I have like my 20k a month is 240. So if you're making 330 after your after-tax income My after-tax income is going to be about 16,800 per month, I think. And that's without your wife?

That's with my wife. Okay, that feels low I'm a W-2 employee. I'm a W-2 employee and my I mean federal taxes,

state, social security, all that stuff is like 75 a year off my two 225 that

I'm making, so I will be making, so Yeah, but you're not paying 130 grand a year in that out of your 330. That's what it amounts to is you're taking home 200.

So I would look into that. It's about 60% it might be a little bit more after all of your deductions, 401k, all of that stuff is hitting, but either way you're going to have some margin of four to five grand a month to sock away, which means your emergency fund is going to get built up quick, then we'll be investing 15%. So let's even say you're 49 and you start investing that four a little over four grand a month between you and your wife's retirement is sort of the base nest egg. If you just do that from 49 to 62, you guys would have about 2.7 million dollars at 62.

All right, when you're 62. I don't know how old she is.

Is that a fair assumption? She's a year older than me. Oh, wow.

Went for the older lady, John. So she's 63, you're 62, you got 2.7 million. And then you guys can decide do we want to keep working or not? You probably will have the option by then. And with a paid-off house at that point.

>> without you increasing investing or making more money, which at this point you guys are only going to make more money in your careers if you keep this up.

Yeah, okay. So I hope that's encouraging to you. If you do this right you stay out of debt, pay off the mortgage, follow these baby steps, you guys will be just fine.

>> that frees up money in four years, you know what I mean? That's what you do.

That'll free up a lot of money. >> That's like 2,500 a month.

You can go on vacation every month, John. Yeah, >> [laughter] >> sounds good, George.

You're doing great. Don't beat yourself up, John, for the past. You guys are crushing it. And yeah, and the caution is is is very fair because as you run the numbers um you know, you're looking it's like yeah, it's not a million bucks. You know what I mean? Like it goes fast if you're not careful. That's why we get people that make 300,000 and they're still living paycheck to paycheck, right? It's like that's what ends up happening. So the intentionality is key.

I think writing out the numbers, you and your wife seeing it, I think having a great financial planner on board especially with some of this retirement stuff that's going to be picking up is really wise. And yeah, I think if you guys just plan it out month to month you're just you know, you have that level of intentionality, have a goal for paying off the house, all of that lined up. You're going to do great. You really will.

Great, thanks. Awesome, you got this, man. Thanks, John, for the call. >> Love a call like that. That's a fun problem to have. >> Our income doubled and I want to be wise with it. Yes. >> And the truth is, I mean 214,000 left in the mortgage, if they just take the daughter's college money when she's done, they just throw that at the mortgage Right, right, right.

>> plus some of the extra margin they have, they're done in a couple years. So before they're 60 they're going to have a paid-for house, maxing out retirement accounts, millionaires.

>> aggressive, I said two years. That was too aggressive. >> I love that spirit. Why why >> [laughter] >> not go big, right?

Rachel goes big and she goes home.

She does it all.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Ramsey is taking over an entire [music] cruise ship. Not like pirates, we're just we we booked it legally, don't worry. But this is 2,500 people coming together for the ultimate debt-free celebration. This is so much more than buffets and deck parties, which I am personally excited about those things.

But you get to hang out with Dave and all of us Ramsey personalities for seven days, hear new teachings on wealth building, join the world's largest debt-free scream, watch live episodes of your favorite shows on stage, and so many more surprises. Who knows?

>> It's so fun. It's a fun week. Yeah, I mean ever since the last one I was like I was kind of riding a camp high after.

Like that was something special. I know it was. It was such a great week.

>> the people working on the cruise were like who are these people? They're all so kind. >> kept saying that. They're like this is the nicest like week of people we've ever had, yeah. And there's no strangers cuz they all have you have like-minded people all in one place. >> Well, not to make anyone uncomfortable, but everyone's like yeah, that we stand in line for the buffet and like how much debt have you paid off, you know? And they just >> Yes. Talk [laughter] about things that you would never ever probably share.

Uh but a place to celebrate and get to go to Caribbean. It's going to be fun. >> Not mad about it. >> to be fun. All right, click the link in the show notes or go to ramseysolutions.com/events to book your cabin. Hopefully we'll see you in 2027.

Iris is in Bismarck, North Dakota.

What's going on, Iris?

Hi, George and Rachel. How are you guys?

Doing well. How can we help today?

Okay, so I'm in quite a bit of debt and

I actually started going through the baby steps at the beginning of the year.

Started like going full like full

intensity about two months ago. Already paid off

about $5,000. Awesome, great. And my

boss my boss offered to lend me the money that I need

to pay off the rest of my debt and just pay him without interest.

Mhm. Lend you the money. How much is

this? E Um so I have $41,805 left to pay off.

Oof. And this is so credit card 9,373

I have 6,573

I owe to the IRS and a nasty personal loan with OneMain

Financial for $25,859.

Okay.

Um no, I would not do that, Iris. I know

it sounds sounds good because you don't have to pay interest and all of that, but suddenly now you are tied to your boss as as a bank basically.

Um and any miss payments, anything that happens in your life, any I mean anything

that is going to be happening he's going to be just there, right? From like an emotional financial um perspective. And so keeping things clean and just saying hey keeping the creditors the creditors and keeping your boss the boss keeps a very healthy boundaries and keeps everyone in the lane they should be in. And when you start muddling those it can get messy really quick.

And the truth is interest the way you're attacking this thing isn't going to be the issue. Mhm, it's a good point. So the issue is the the behavior that got us here and you are actively transforming that and I think there's something really powerful about using that debt snowball method to knock out the next set, the next set, freeing up the payment. And if you just owe your boss one weird giant payment it's just kind of hit different and it's probably going to take longer.

You're probably going to get a little comfortable cuz you're like well, I'm saving on interest. I don't need to be that aggressive. He only said I needed to pay 500 a month.

And again, to Rachel's point it just adds a risk, it changes the relationship. I would much rather owe all these other people money than my own boss. Yep. Uh Iris, how much do you make a year? >> Yeah.

Um well, it varies. I work in a restaurant, so this year I made 54

before taxes. Okay. And I started doing some side hustles so I can pay off this debt. Good, good.

>> Hopefully by my goal is February of 2027.

Awesome. Oh, amazing. >> specific you've been. You knew your exact numbers on your debt, you have an exact debt pay-off date. That gives me a lot of encouragement and confidence. >> to go to, so I need to pay [laughter] this off. That's hilarious. What concert is it?

Um it's not Backstreet Boys. It's Karol

G. She was in Coachella this year and she's going to perform in Puerto Rico February 26th.

>> destination. How fun. Um Iris is the

boss at the restaurant that you work at.

Yes. >> Okay. So, I'll be honest, even more so why I wouldn't because that has that industry turns over so much. You could look up in 6 months and get a great paying job somewhere else.

But then you weirdly have this like loyalty to him because he like did this big favor for you. And and so I >> Or he leaves and goes to a different restaurant and now he's like, "Hey, I need all that money up front." Yeah.

Yeah. >> Well, he's he's the owner of the restaurant. The thing is I've been working with him forever. I've known this guy for 11 years and he's

seen me for 11 years and the thing is that he asked me, he's like, "Hey, Iris, like I've seen you be stuck. I mean, you know, why haven't you bought a home?

Just life things." And so that's why he asked why I haven't, you know, progressed in a way. Yeah, he seems like a great guy. His heart's probably in the exact right spot, right? I don't think there's any malice or anything. We just see these these situations go sideways. Like we do. When you start mingling relationships and money, especially when it comes to borrowing money.

Um it it just it changes the relationship and even though I think it the the heart of him is probably gold and it's probably great.

Um I just I would have the more conservative approach of keeping him my boss and not my banker. Like that's just basically, you know, at the end of the day. So, that's that's what we would do. That's what I would do.

George, I guess you can speak for yourself, but >> and the the more I'm thinking through this, I'm just going, "This just feels like I can count on zero fingers how many times someone's called into the show and said, 'Hey, I borrowed 40 grand from my boss and it worked out perfectly. Paid him back and everyone was happy and the relationship was great.'" It just doesn't happen. It's sort of a pie in the sky thought. And anytime you lend money to anybody that you know, it usually ends up changing the relationship for the worse.

Iris, like you are the secret sauce of getting yourself out of debt. It's not rearranging debt. It's not consolidating here or getting this lender there and all of this. People people shuffle their debt around, even if it's not their boss saying they'll pay it off, but like to get a better deal here with the interest, all of it.

But listen, at the end of the day, it's really not going to matter. It may save you a month or two, right?

Um and you're the secret to it all. It's you. Not trying to finagle the interest.

And so, um because of the risk of the relationship and your employment, all of it, um yep, keeping it safe.

>> And you're you're less than a year away according to your goal, right? >> Yes, so great.

Yes. >> So, less than 12 months. >> I'll call you guys back for the for the debt-free scream. >> Yeah, you will. And I hope you get to go to that concert. I'm not hip enough to know. I mean, I know Coachella. That's about And I have heard of Karol G cuz I know that it's it's a really hip I need to look her up. >> I'm so out of touch. Rachel and I only know music from like the early 2000s, so we never learned anything new and exciting. >> Oh, she's pretty.

So fun. Okay. >> about the music, okay? >> know. I'm I think it's great. >> But thank you for that. >> a give me a millennial boy band and I'm

there. >> And and dangle a carrot. I love that she has a thing that she wants to do that gives her a why. >> Yes, sure. I'm going to work an extra shift to pay it off. Yeah. >> doesn't have to be this really deep why of like, you know, childhood trauma that I'm running from. It could just be a fun concert and you go, "I want to feel like I earned it." >> That's my finish line up there. >> it on a payment plan.

>> Yep, that's my finish line. That's my finish >> at Disney, Rachel, and we did these street interviews. Can't wait for you to see the Disneyland version. Everyone I talked to, it was like an 18-year-old on a >> it? >> payment plan for the annual pass.

"It's only 130 bucks a month." That's what they tell me. And her mom's on the payment plan, too. So, they're doing this together. They're not paying it off. Just paying the monthly payment. >> Some generational debt to the old Mickey >> a family tradition now.

But it's funny how we we teach our kids that payments are okay as long as you can afford them. >> 100% 100% and just stupid financial

decisions we get ourselves in from time shares to car payments, all of that and it's like when it's so normalized, that's what your kids pick up. That that is how you do life. And [music] that's what ends up I think the the of being average, right? Of just being paycheck to paycheck, >> [music] >> barely have enough for retirement if that, but really having to depend on social security and you work your whole life for that for that ending.

And it's like, "No, you can get rid of all of that. Pay yourself instead of paying other people." And that >> very peaceful on the other side when you're in control. Humans are really good at one thing and that is justifying the things that they want even when they don't have the money.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Cesar is in Colorado Springs up next.

Cesar, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hey, George. How are you guys? We're doing great, man. What's going on with you?

Well, I'm in a little dilemma. I feel like I've been for like about a year now. Uh my question is

like what will get me closer to happiness, money or experiences?

You called the right show.

What do you think, Cesar? I think you know the answer.

Um I think so, but I like I know

experiences will, but I know like at my

age, I'm 21, so I feel like right now

everybody says there it's split. It's like everyone Some people say, "Oh, you're you should have go have fun." And some people say, "Oh, you should go work and make your money now and later have fun." And I'm like stuck in between those two.

Yeah, I don't think it has to be an either/or at this point for you.

I think there can be financial goals that can set you up to have a peaceful life because money does bring options and choices and instead of being stressed and living paycheck to paycheck, which will rob your happiness, um you know, you can set yourself up well and especially at a young age, yes, investing and all of that will will do that for you, Cesar. So, on one end of the spectrum, absolutely. But the other end, the lie that money at the end of the day is going to be the thing that fulfills you, that's a lie.

I mean, it doesn't. Even people that have a goal of like, "Oh, I want to get a million dollars." Once they get it, it's like, "Okay, it's still me, so I got to do something else, right?" That's it's not the There's like we always say, the finish line always moves. So, um So, yeah, I think it could be a both/and. I think you could enjoy your life and save some money and be wise with it.

And also no amount of experiences will cure you if there's something going on inside. And so I want to tell you that as a 21-year-old, I think that will free you to go, "There's not a single trip that's going to go, 'Well, that did it. I'm happy now.'" Like it's all ephemeral. It's all temporary. And so the key is what's going on in you, in Cesar, that's even stirring this up.

Yeah, well, like I feel like it's more like I'm on the lookout for the future cuz like right every every now and then I'm like, "Wow, like I'm happy right now

in life, you know?" Just I guess what like like a lot of young people it's like I want an exotic car or like I want a mansion one day, you know? And it's like I see like entrepreneurs go like don't like they work 7 days a week, 15-hour days for 10 years and they finally have it, but then they're like empty inside. And at the same time, I got I know people that just like have like a normal life and they go on vacations and and they they they invest a little

bit and later on they're like, "Oh, I wish, you know." I guess what my fear is

that I don't want to be limited by money

in my life to be able to like to live, you know, if that makes sense.

Uh yeah, I think so and I think it's just a mindset of what money is, where money's placed in your value system and how you see it.

So, if you worship money and you think it's the thing that is going to cure all, I think you're going to get to the end of your life and like [clears throat] you said, you're going to be you're not having anything to show for it from a relationship standpoint, right? Like nobody lays on their deathbed and they're like, "Man, I wish I had >> [clears throat] >> a little bit more in my 401k." Right?

They're asking for their family and their friends. Like like the things that money can't buy in life, I really do believe are the things that give us the most joy and where we can actually find levels of contentment. We put our time and energy into our families and into

our marriages and our friendships and our spiritual life and our health. Like these things are really um those are the

important things in life. Our friend Arthur Brooks talks about this though about how there's five things you can do with money. Four will actually bring happiness and one uh will not. Yes. And the one that will not, Cesar, is everything you listed out, which is stuff. That's the one thing that like from a chemical reaction in your brain, like like genuinely, scientifically, the stuff does not It will give you a momentary hit, dopamine hit, but it doesn't last. Yep.

So, the things that will give you happiness that he talks about is spending money on experiences, especially with people you love, buying your time back, that can bring happiness cuz you're not doing something you don't want to do, and you get to refocus that time, saving money and investing, that actually brings happiness to set up your future self for success, and then generosity. Making giving a habit in your life also brings you happiness. In fact, it's the most fun you can have with money. So, the sooner you not only learn that, but you believe it, and you act and it becomes a the habit in your life, the better your life is going to be.

And my friend Sahil Bloom wrote a book called The Five Types of Wealth, and he goes through relationships, family, social, your physical health, money, and work. Like, all of those things combined, if you're healthy in all of those areas, you're going to be a happy person. >> Mm. List those out again, George.

What are they?

social life, relationships, Friendships.

your physical health, >> Yes. your finances and money, and lastly, your work. >> My gosh, I just I basically did the book. I just rambled off some stuff, but that's the stuff money can't buy right there.

>> Like, if you have a miserable job, you're going to be a miserable person. If you are broke your whole life stressed, you're going to not going to be happy. If your health is in poor shape, all you care about is your health at that point.

And you find that people who have the big mansions, who don't have a lot of people in their life and family, they want to go get a small apartment somewhere that feels cozy cuz it just so lonely. It just amplifies the loneliness. So, all that to say, Caesar, you're on the right path that you're even asking this question. It's a good full circle moment.

>> not calling saying, "Hey, I want to buy a Lamborghini." You're calling saying, "Hey, I know the Lamborghini's not going to bring me that joy." And the last thing I'm going to throw in there is faith, Caesar.

That sermon hit you?

Yeah, I'm like a little speechless right now cuz I thought you guys were going to tell me something else, but yeah, I guess yeah, that I that makes a lot of

sense. And yeah, cuz like I just don't want to be like at the top of the hill and be like, "Oh, this is not what I wanted, you know?" And >> 100%. >> Can you do me a favor, Caesar?

Go ahead. Can I recommend a book to you if you promise me you'll read it? And I'm not even going to give it to you cuz you can access it for free right now like on your phone.

Perfect. Read the book of Ecclesiastes in the Bible because this is a tale as old as time, and Solomon did it bigger and better than anyone else, and he has the best message for you at the end of it.

Okay. Have you heard of that book?

Yes. Okay. Great story. Richest man on earth had it all, and at the end he goes, "Everything is meaningless." >> George loves >> Spoiler alert.

>> George is such an Ecclesiastes >> I love an emo book of the Bible that's just like, "Yes, dude." Like, it's like a goth kid, you know what I mean? >> What are we doing? What are we doing with our lives? >> is like I have this existential crisis, you know, once a week where I go What are we doing?

>> I know. When you just pan back, you go, "Okay, what really is meaningful in life?" >> I liked the book Die With Zero. Not that I agreed with everything in it, but you're like, "Okay, what are we doing?" Like, you know what I mean? When you get to a point financially, which I get, all of you listening, you'll everyone is at a different place financially, but you know, if if or when you get to that place of like, "Okay, um you know, we've done it all.

What am I doing? Am I just like stockpiling money, and then when I die in my 80s or 90s, my 60-year-old kids just get everything? Like, is that is that it?" And it's like, "No, live the live life now." Like >> Yes. >> And again, you have to set yourself up well to do that.

So, I'm not saying go into debt or spend everything every single month cuz no, that is from a biblical perspective, that's going to cause stress.

But um but getting to a point of like, "Okay, if you work hard and you're smart with money, and yes, and you're in your you know, Mom and Dad, I think they're a great example of this. They're in Argentina right now. They were texting texting me waterfalls, waterfalls, and I'm like, "Well, where's Dave in front of another waterfall?" Uh but you know what I mean? But it's like, enjoy it.

And then they like love our family so well, and they you know, they take take us all on a trip every year, and it's like some of the best times. So, it's like spend some of your money like yes, when you have it, spend some of it and enjoy it. And then the other part is the generosity part, George, which is exac- you're exactly right.

and the ability to reach into someone's situation and completely change their life, like that is wild. And you know what? Like a $8,000 car for a single mom sometimes will do that or a $10,000 car. And you can just pay for it, and you just give it to her, and that's it, right?

>> That's it. In my book, I say I talk about money so we can stop talking about money. Yes. >> it become the tool that funds the rest of the things. >> That's right. Um and then ask yourself this question, and then what? Well, I I brought up this one from Galatians cuz this is this is really it for me. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. That to me is the goal.

That's why we get our money right so that we can focus on have peace and joy >> joy and peace and love and all the things that are on T.J. Maxx stitch pillows. That's what's That's what it's about, Caesar. So, I appreciate the call. It launched a a good sermon for Rachel and I.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel, joined by Rachel Cruze.

The number to call is 888-825-5225

if you want to join the conversation. If not, just keep listening. You'll have a good time. Joseph is in New York City up next. Welcome to the show, Joseph.

Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. >> Um Yeah, so I my issue that I'm trying to sort through right now is my daughter is heading off to college this year.

Um I do have two other kids to follow behind her about 4 years apart, which is a a good thing.

Um I have a lot of debt, about $200,000 worth of credit card debt and uh loans

with personal loans and HELOC that does not include the mortgage of about um you know, I pay about $4,400 a month there.

So, you know, the the issue that I'm having is that I make too much money that we don't get any financial aid. We

were fortunate enough that we got some merit aid. Uh my daughter's going to be going to an SEC school, and um they're giving us like in-state tuition, so that helps a lot, but we're still going to be left with about 30-some thousand dollars

after the fact. So, I'm stuck with the question, do I try to pay that in cash

because I I can work extra that I could

probably do that. Do I take uh the

$20,000 person parent plus loan out and

make that put that extra money towards the debt that I have? I just I just don't know which way I go. Um my wife and I are you know, we we not that we fight about it, but we argue about you know, what the heck we're going to do because we totally miscalculated, and

we were just um just didn't know

we didn't know anything about college paying for college. I I was still living in the 80s and 90s, and um things have

changed since then. Yeah. For sure.

Yeah, the affordability of college um is is tough. So, we you know, we find that you know, we we are not a um proponent of any kind of debt, Joseph. So, no, we will say no to the parent plus loan, and we're about going to a school that um that everyone can afford, and it sounds like you guys can't afford this college.

Right.

So, that puts a awkward conversation in

the air uh with the 18-year-old cuz it's May, and I'm sure the acceptance has already happened, and the plans have already started rolling, but the truth is if you guys don't have the money to pay for this, you don't have the money to pay for it. So, either your son or daughter who's going off to college works and finds a job and has a

different looking college life than just sorority houses and frat parties and football games. Um and you know, he or she will be working, and or they can't go to that school. At least not right now.

Have they already like Have they have it in their heads they're going to this school? Yeah, it's May. >> How far are we? Yeah, we we we already uh we already committed. Got the T-shirt and everything. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so let's talk through this. How much money do you guys make a year?

Uh combined [clears throat] income about $320,000. Okay, so help me understand

how a family making $340,000 is $200,000 in consumer debt. What

happened? So, we have

um uh a lot of credit cards. Um

you know, we have I took a HELOC loan out uh probably about 5 or 6 years ago.

There's about $50,000 on that.

Um we had a roof leak. There was about $20,000 on that.

>> But what was what was happening to the actual income you had coming in? Cuz this is all outside of your, you know, 15 or 20 grand take home every month.

Sure. Where was that going? Um just a lot of credit card misspending, bad bad

bad decisions. Bad decisions. Um yeah,

um Yeah, that when we bought our first home, uh we were which again, I I'm financially illiterate, and I will take the full blame on that. When we uh when we bought our first um when we We our first home, um our agent set us up with this financial person and then we were making the minimum payment at the time, but I didn't realize that despite me making the minimum payment, which I thought was satisfying everything, it was borrowing against the principal of the mortgage and my principal was actually going up. So, that put us in a hole there.

But, we have since sold that house and have moved on. Um, I knew we couldn't afford the house that we lived in we had a couple friends uh family that actually family to to front us some money so we could get the house. Right now our mortgage is about 4,400. And what's your take home pay every month?

>> [clears throat] >> So, my wife is about 6,000 this is take

home after taxes. My wife is about 6,000.

I'm about eight nine roughly about

10,000. That's before before overtime

and extra shifts. Okay. I can work pretty much as many extra shifts as I can and after taxes I get about a

thousand dollars per shift. Okay. After taxes. Cool.

Well, the math should be pretty clear here on how we're going to cash flow this and if that means it slows down your debt payoff a little bit to get her through this first year and buy you guys some time, that's what I would do. Cuz I do think it's a great goal for her to go to school debt free, but I think she needs to have some skin in the game versus dad just working his tail off so she can go enjoy the the frat parties and the sorority parties. So, that would be the game plan and then the long term we need to clean up the $200,000 of debt using the debt snowball.

So, attacking the smallest one first.

Yes, definitely. >> What's coming out of the bank account every month?

Uh, mortgage Well, I mean is it more than 16k or is there any money left over?

No, no. There's um I I would say you know, I I was doing rough estimates over the last week or two. I would say it's roughly about the like 14 15,000 that's coming out. Okay. And and and besides

the Cuz you said 4,000 is the mortgage.

Right. Right. So, you got 12,000 left.

How much are all the payments on all the debt, the credit cards and everything?

Um Let me see. We have I just paid a car off. We have two cars that are about $700 total between the

two. The HELOC is about um

five $500 a month.

Um, the credit cards are

Um, it's several thousand. It's couple thousand a month. >> Mhm.

You know, it's like 30% interest which is killing me.

Uh, I'm trying to think Okay. Yeah, well I mean I'm at 7,000 right now. I mean it's just to the point yes that these are and these things I don't we don't want you to get behind on.

Um, so yeah. So, Joseph I mean I would sit down tonight and we'll give you every dollar our budgeting app will give you a year subscription to it because I would I would want if I were you you and your wife to sit down and list out everything that we spend money on in the month.

And what and my my hope is and my sense is that you guys are going to look up and be like, "Oh crap, three to four thousand dollars is just getting blown on subscriptions and out to eat and just whatever we whatever the flip we want to do and all of that has to be tightened up to not only pay off this debt, but if you guys are serious about this college of of starting to save to cash flow >> [music] >> and have to make payments for this college forward payments not back payments of debt.

And so, getting on a really strict budget Joseph I mean even looking at selling some of these cars if you want like whatever you can do to get out of this as fast as possible is what you need to do. Yeah, I would not turn to any more debt. That's what's got us here it's not going to get us out. So, no more parent plus loans, no more just kind of phoning it in.

You guys make too much to be this broke. >> Cut up the credit cards.

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You

work way too hard to be broke and feel

broke and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the EveryDollar budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth.

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>> [music]

>> Today's Ramsey Show question of the day is brought [music] to you by WhyRefi. If you've lost control of your private student payments, your financial progress has stalled out. But, WhyRefi helps borrowers explore refinancing options with payments built around their real life situations. Learn more at whyrefi.com/ramsey.

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Today's question comes from Susie in Washington. I recently paid off my Tesla.

Love that. As two Tesla drivers we appreciate that.

Uh, and have $20,000 in credit card debt. Should I take a loan against my 401k to knock out that debt?

Not in a thousand years.

No, no, no. You You paid off the Tesla.

Use the same intensity and get rid of the credit card debt.

The problem with this loan against the 401k is there's multiple reasons. Number one, you are unplugging all of that compound growth that was happening. >> Yes. So, that $10,000 loan you took out against your 401k is now not growing for you.

On top of that you're basically double taxed on it cuz you likely paid taxes to put the money in and now you're going to pay taxes as you pay it back in while paying interest on it. So, uh no. I would not do this 401k loan and it also puts you at risk with your employer and we've gotten this call recently of I got laid off, I got fired and now the entire loan is due within 30 days or else it gets counted as an early withdrawal which then gets IRS penalties. >> That's right.

And if you don't have the money it's just gone then.

And it doesn't change the behavior that got you here. It feels like a little shortcut. Robbing your future self.

>> say to never cash out retirement. That's 401ks, Roth IRAs, traditional IRAs

unless you are facing a bankruptcy or foreclosure. So, we are not pulling it out to pay the house off early. We are not pulling it out to uh pay off consumer debt. So, none of that. So, we >> No withdrawals, no loans. That's right.

None of it. Yep. Just pay it off with your future income, with your savings, with your gazelle intensity, with extra jobs. >> it. Susie's on it. Yeah. Paying off >> know how much that Tesla was and what the loan was, but if you can knock that out. >> Yeah. Hopefully it freed up a couple hundred bucks in the payment and throw that at the credit cards. Love it.

Thanks for the question Susie. All right, Azalea is in Raleigh up next.

What's going on Azalea?

Hi. Um, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure.

How can we help? Uh, so I So, I want to know if it's a smart idea for um my husband and I to invest in his

business uh or or should we pay off all of our debt first? Um, we have about uh

I forgot about his 401k. I was just listening to whatever was going on in on the phone, but I we have about $15,000 that he a a loan that he took out of his 401k that we need to pay back and about 25,000-ish dollars in credit card debt. We don't have any car payments and our um household income is around 200,000 a year um and he

his business is growing and he wants to invest a a trailer a dump trailer and a

and a new truck that the van he has is so old it just it can't do the work that he needs reliably.

Uh, so with the truck and the dump trailer it would be a total of about $70,000.

Um but that would immediately he would be making around $2,000 um a month extra immediately um with the

work that he would be doing.

Okay. So, he wouldn't recoup that until

>> years to break even. >> three to yeah. And it And you guys would have to go into debt for this.

Yes. We have zero We We don't have any

savings at all like cash. What we do have um assets, but we don't want to like touch that. >> What do you mean assets? So, we Uh, so we have land. We own land out uh we bought that cash and we have gold.

Um, the we have a total of that at those assets is around $90,000. How much is the gold?

Uh, about 50.

What are you hanging on to that for?

Is this like apocalypse? Uh Uh, yeah. Yes, like rainy day.

Uh, you never know what's going to happen. We just want to be able to >> than a rainy day like the like the world ends kind of thing. Yeah, that's a little bit more than rainy. A rainy day is like we'll get it HVAC goes out, but you're not going to pay an HVAC guy in gold.

>> [laughter] >> I'm sure he'd take it. Well, So it's just for us it's just it's just a question that we feel comfortable with. God forbid something really bad were to happen, we feel like we have that to like you know, it'd be easier to grab a piece of gold and trade versus like selling land. >> Food?

What about money?

Yeah, so well with all of that being said, we don't know what to do if we should just pay off our debts completely or if we should invest. No, you should not invest. No, because the return is opposite. If you said I need a I need

to get a 2,000 which we had this call I think earlier this week or last week.

I get I need $2,000 to get a new license

for my for my career and I'm going to make 5,000 more a month because of it and it's like done. >> That's different and you're paying cash.

>> This is $70,000 of debt to make 2,000

more. Even if you had the cash I would [laughter] say this probably isn't worth it. >> at night and make $2,000 more.

Okay. So no. No, no, no, yeah. So pay off the debt smallest to largest balances.

So the small >> I'm telling you I would and you're not going to do it. I take that gold and I'd pay off your pay off your debt. You guys will be debt-free. You'll have some cash from that and then use that to slowly save up to invest in his business for his for for like the truck like [clears throat] one one thing or the other, right?

Um because I do want him to be able to grow his business but we got to do it at the speed of cash and not at the detriment of slowing down getting out of consumer debt.

So his his main job thankfully it's he

works from home and he has a lot of flexibility which is why he's able to run his business. His main job pays him about 110 and then he makes around 40 to 50,000 with his business.

So that's that's that's that. And then you make another 40 or 50? >> Yeah, and the rest Yeah, I'm a home baker. So I make money from home. I'm home with my kids. I home school them. Okay. So yeah.

>> an extra 50 to 60. So from a from a business perspective, I would have which

I'm sure you guys do, you know, his own business account with that and then I would break out. Yes, how what's the cheapest truck I can get? Not a new nice truck. Like what's the cheapest truck I can get to do what I need to do. Make that you know, that goal number one.

After you guys have paid off debt and have an emergency fund. >> Yeah, and then the and then the you know, what what was it? It was the truck and a what? Credit cards. I think it's a

dump trailer. It's a dump trailer. Dump trailer, yeah. Or or one or the other.

You're right. So like yeah, but we're going to be cash flowing those purchases.

It's easy to try to justify it with the money on the other side. The problem is that's not a guarantee and we're not doing the math on what it's really going to cost us to break even all of that. So I would pay off all of your debt now. I personally would sell the gold.

Otherwise you're just going to be I would love for you guys to sacrifice and get rid of this debt over you know, a fast period of time but the scary part is to me is that you guys are making bringing home $12,000 a month and yet you still turn to debt.

Well, the the debt majority of our debt was from when we moved from we moved from New Jersey and honestly [clears throat] it was completely my fault. I accumulated a lot of debt buying things that were unnecessary and that was a lot of that. >> stopped?

Yes, it has and the other debt that we have a credit card was from investing in my business. I've invested a total of $50,000 in my business which means basically I've only made $10,000 last year. Investment however has stopped. I have everything I need to continue making money so at this point it's just cash.

Gotcha. Took it. Yeah, and I do want you to I want you guys to critically think though of the situation. I keep going

back to let's go $70,000 in debt. We'll

make two grand more a month but the debt payment on that may be a $1,000 between the truck and the and the trailer. You know, so that you're really only making $1,000 a month and again Plus there's interest. >> Yeah, people are doing that dog sitting.

Do you know what I'm saying? Like the like I'm just like like just keeping perspective of reality of these numbers cuz it's not to me it's like a it's like a non a non-starter.

So I'm just so afraid to sell the gold cuz we bought like $20,000 worth and now it's at 50. So like I'm afraid to >> hold on. Are we doing this to get rich or are we doing this to >> [music] >> you know, secure ourselves in case of an apocalypse? Cuz right now you're mixing a lot.

Uh You told me it's just in case and now you're keeping it because now it's like well, we could make more. >> the fear commodity. When fear happens which is happening right now, the market's kind of up and down, the war, everything. That that calms down.

Oh, it's going to go down. The market's already come back up. I would get rid of the gold and get off the internet cuz that's what's caused you to buy this. If the internet didn't exist, you'd own zero ounces of gold. >> cable news. It's all gold and reverse mortgages and walk-in bathtubs. Oof.

>> Let's not let's not go down that path.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Everyday on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Kamel here with Rachel Cruze.

You've heard us mention EveryDollar and if you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using the EveryDollar app and it's more than just our budgeting app. Now the plan is built right in and the singular focus of EveryDollar is to create margin to throw at your focused financial goal.

You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching and that will free up more money to work the plan even faster. So start EveryDollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Diane is in Philadelphia up next. Diane, welcome to the show.

Uh hello and thank you for this opportunity to get your advice. Uh we're honored that to give it. Hopefully it's good. >> [laughter] >> We hope it is too but anyway, let me give you the some facts.

I'm a caregiver for both my parents.

They live with me in my home.

They were divorced when I was like 12 years old and they each remarried and

each of those spouses have passed. So I've had my dad and they each have dementia too by the way but I've had my dad for eight years and I've had my mom for five.

My mom had a condo which I we kept. I didn't

sell it. I rented it out. I was a landlord too with all of all of this.

That's that's a part-time job too, girl.

>> [laughter] >> Tell me about it but so anyway, I rented it out for about four years. It's in a really quaint little town, really nice town that I'd like to move to when all this is you know, done. But um my my question is um

uh okay, the the renter moved out. I've I've had it for about a year where I use it to go to just relax and get some respite.

Um I have a sister.

I'm power of attorney.

We're both on the will for both of them to receive one half each.

I want to know the the condo still has a mortgage on it and most of the mortgage payment not most of it about half is still going to interest. So what I'd like to do is pay off the mortgage

remaining mortgage on the condo.

My sister has said she hasn't been helping. I've been doing most of it by myself. She just started helping maybe about eight months ago. Um she

said that she would forfeit her

inheritance for the condo just because I you know, it would have been gone anyway had they been in a nursing home or anything like that. They would have taken any assets they had um or that my mom has.

Um So I want to know one, is it

okay it would would it be a good to pay off the mortgage? It's about 33,000

left. And second, if I should get what my

sister said in writing so that there's

no you know, problem you know, in inheriting that proper property and having it for myself to move into.

Okay, so you're saying you're going to you want to take the condo and she'll take the rest of the inheritance.

No, I mean what do you mean?

Any other there there are no other assets? Is that what you're asking me? >> Oh, it's just the condo.

Right now yeah for my mom. Yeah, in fact yeah, she she >> sister getting in this?

She wouldn't be getting anything. Not for my mom, my dad. My father has money.

I've been, you know, a good steward of his money. So, he has She has money left. And they each have They each have insurance, but uh like an insurance policy that's that that she would get half of that. >> insurance? Yeah, but my mom's is a small policy.

It's It's only only about 15,000. Okay.

So, um but it's on my dad's side, uh she would get money. This She hasn't really done anything for Yeah, I was going to say the compensation of you being the caregiver uh is something usually most siblings, you know, talk about because to your point, you would be paying for someone to be doing this and you've been doing that. And so >> some states you can get paid to be the caregiver of your parents.

But they don't Yeah, you'd have to be on Medicaid and and um you know, they'd have to spend down all their assets and you know, they'd have a lien on my The condo would be gone, you So, how much is the condo worth if you were to sell it?

Yeah, the market value right now is is um so it's I should say only, but it's about 130. 130,000.

>> 130,000. Okay. Okay. So,

>> one-bedroom condo. Yeah, so so technically, if it was paid off and that was the asset that you girls had to that you you and your sister had to split, then to buy her out, you would have to pay $65,000.

Yep. Yep. To pay her out. Yep.

>> But you're saying you have 33,000 that you could do just to pay it off right now. I could pay the mortgage so she my mom wouldn't be paying interest, you know, on that cuz I am using She gets a monthly pension. So, um a small pension about 2,500 a month and I I use part of that to pay the the mortgage, um Yeah, because at the end when the like if you didn't pay it off and she passed, the estate has to settle up. And so, you'd have to >> the payments on the loan.

>> Yeah, I'd be paying it anyway or I'd have to sell it. That's the same Yeah, if you get it in writing that you're going to get your money you put into it plus your share, then I think that's fair. Yeah, you just may have to still continue to buy her You There may still be a difference, but I wonder if you can add up from an hour's perspective of the caregiving and just see if your sister would negotiate with you like some of it off just for what you would Well, even even at that, like if if if they were if she was in a nursing home, that's what I I figured if she was in a nursing home the local I just a mediocre nursing home nowadays is like $9,000 a month and it's it's $350 a day.

uh That's what you're saving by you being the caregiver. Yeah, that's what it is. 108,000 a year easily. I I've and

I've had it five years. So, I figured I've earned I've earned the condo.

That's my point of view, but Have you Have you Have you mentioned that to Have you said that to your sister at all? Have you all had that conversation? She did Yeah, she she said Yeah, she can have it, but saying it That's what I'm saying. So, I have to get it in writing.

So, she's good with it, but you just need to get it in writing cuz you're you're like it's a handshake agreement right now. We need this in writing. >> Right, exactly. >> just say, "Hey, I'm I'm working with my estate planner.

There's no confusion." And you guys have a good relationship right now?

It's better. When she wasn't helping out, it wasn't so good. >> Okay. There was enough pause there that I went, "Okay." >> [laughter] >> Just a slight pause, but yeah, you want to salvage what's left of the relationship at least and it can go south when, you know, family passes, you're grieving and now you're like, "Well, you said you" And now she's looking at the numbers going, "Well, I could I'd love to have 60 grand in my pocket." >> I never said that. Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Cuz she she she doesn't She never listened to me. I've told been telling her about your program. I'm I'm debt-free. Awesome.

>> But they're they're and, you know, in dire Not dire straits, but, you know, They're they're struggling more than you are. >> her to help me. I offered her money. That's how she's helping. Cuz I pay her.

>> Well, I think what you're doing is very fair. You sound like a a real noble, sweet person. I mean, the fact that you've, you know, given your life to care for your family at this point is >> Yeah, you're amazing. incredible.

They're They're so lucky to have you in their life and um it's a much better life than being in a nursing home, by the way. The quality of care that you're giving them um is priceless. So, I appreciate the call and I wish you the best for, you know, formalizing all of this. >> For sure.

Yeah, I was going to say if you called to get permission to if is formalizing okay? Yes, it should be a requirement. And so, I would >> should I pay off Should I pay off the mortgage now? Once it's formalized, I think it's wise to go if you got the money sitting around burning a hole in your pocket and you don't want to deal with the mortgage and the interest, it'll definitely give you some peace of mind.

Yeah. And then you can decide if you keep the condo or not.

Okay. All right. Thank you so much.

>> Absolutely. Thank you for the call, Diane. I I love that we're talking about this now. >> What a jewel of a human. Oof. Yeah, and two parents with dementia. I cannot imagine. >> hard. So hard. Um that's a lot of work.

And the other thing to think about here is power of attorney, which it can be very difficult once they have lost the cognitive ability to make decisions. So, depending on the diagnosis, you know, I would be talking to the doctor and the estate planning attorney to figure out can we get financial power of attorney to move the money around, make financial decisions on their behalf. That's an important piece of the puzzle, too.

But I appreciate the call. This is the the hard stuff you deal with and the baby steps don't make any of this easier. It just takes away the stress of money problems on top of all of this.

So, I'm so glad that you followed the plan, Diane. You're debt-free. You have options because you set yourself up for that kind of life, for that kind of flexibility, for that kind of generosity. Cuz if you were broke, you wouldn't have many options. You wouldn't be able to take care of your family the way you are. You wouldn't be able to pay off the condo. So, I appreciate you being a living example of what life looks like when you follow this plan.

>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents

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That's ramseysolutions.com/

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day, 2 Corinthians 4:16. [music] Therefore, we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed [music] day by day.

Thomas Edison said, "Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up." There we go. Thanks for the light bulb, my guy. We got a lot of lights in here thanks to you. Never give up. All right, Michael's in Louisville up next. What's going on, Michael?

Hey, how are you doing, sir? We're doing great. Just having a good time.

Uh so, my question is um I just recently came across a financial reset myself and

I came across a decent sum of money and I'm looking to see moving forward, what is the best way to be a good godly steward of what I've got. Oh, it's a great question. How much money has come upon you, Michael? Well,

believe it or not, I just sold a baseball card for over $300,000.

Come again now. What card was this?

Tell us the deets. How do we get into the business?

Yeah, literally I'm telling you when it was a card shop, finances have been tight and I've spent a lot of money or been so selling a lot of baseball cards to help pay pay bills this winter. And so, I

thought I owed it to myself to go buy some more. And so, I bought a box that had two cards in it and pulled a one-of-one Ohtani refractor, which just sold in auction for $324,000.

Oh my god. That is wild. That is crazy.

So, is this like a like an auction that will handle this all for you and they take a fee?

Um yes, so they've already taken it.

It's already sold. I've already gotten a large cash advance and the rest of it comes within the next week through a wire transfer. Wow. All right, what's your net worth currently without this card? Uh Without this card? Um I mean, I've So,

I've never been a Dave Ramsey financial financially free. I struggled with credit cards early on and kind of never was able to get out of that hole. I've got investment properties, just a few have the wife and I. And so, we have We're in in really good shape on those. And thanks to this baseball card, completely debt-free with the exception of mortgages. Oh, great.

Okay, so you don't have credit card debt anymore. I just paid it off. Yeah. But you have your primary home as a mortgage?

>> he had it before the baseball card. How much did you have before the baseball card? I'm just curious.

It's embarrassing. Probably like 40 some thousand. Okay. Cuz that part of you has not changed. Okay? The guy that got $40,000 in credit card debt, he's still there. He's still in you, okay? And you just were able to wipe it off with a lucky >> part of your brain, that impulsivity that caused you to go into credit card debt, is the same one that got you that card. It just happened to work out this time.

Right. So, I'm just saying we got to be cautious, okay? Because Okay. Um meaning

I'm glad you paid it off, but do you know what I'm saying? You had no emotional sweat equity, if you will, by paying off $40,000 of credit card debt.

It didn't take you a year with extra jobs, and you had to really sacrifice.

It was just in one fell swoop, it was gone. So, nothing in you has really changed. So, it's just a red flag. It's a marker. >> Just easy to go back in. >> Yep. Just a marker of, "Hey, I got to be aware that that is my That's My propensity is to go into debt." So, we got to remember that. I'm saying. Um >> I'm going to just uh say this.

I have debt. It really changed. It didn't give me a new perspective on life. Um I'm new Um it's given my wife and I financial uh breath. Um the stress

is is completely gone. I understand those impulses may be there, but uh I'm very much aware of uh the blocking this is, and that things need to change moving forward. >> Good. Okay, I'm so glad so glad you said that. Yes. So, what's left on the mortgages?

Um so, with investment properties, uh we have about 230 that's owed, and then I'm

sorry. Um three 320 that's owed on investment properties, and uh a hundred and some on personal mortgage.

Okay. And do you guys have savings already?

Um we've got a little bit. Not much.

Okay. And what's the amount that's sitting there from the card right now?

Um we still have over 200,000 coming.

Okay, great. So, you can fully fund an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses, and still have what, 160

grand? 175 grand?

Yes. >> And that would pay off your primary mortgage.

Correct? Okay. Well, um I'm First of all, I got to give um I mean, I know that I need to give something back to the Lord here.

And um We weren't done with the list. I was just walking through the things you you could be doing. We're going to give some and enjoy some, for sure. I just want to see what was left over after you paid down the mortgage and set aside the emergency fund.

I got you. I understand. Would there be a good chunk left over after that?

Um no, there was another um secondary like a home equity line of credit that I paid off as well. So, I'm looking at as

it sits with mortgages, and about a little over 200,000.

Okay, that's just your primary plus the HELOC, not the investment properties.

Um >> [clears throat] >> the primary is about 180. The HELOC is

paid off, and then I have investment properties. Okay, the HELOC's paid off.

So, we don't even mention it. It's out of the picture now. Great. Yes. Okay.

So, what I'm thinking is we set aside an emergency fund. If we have enough to pay off the mortgage completely, let's do that, and then the rest, let's give some and enjoy some.

That sounds good.

Any different thoughts on that, Rachel?

No, I Frees up a mortgage payment, so I love that idea. Yes, for sure. Um Yes,

one of my one of my mortgages has like 8 and 1/2%, which is higher than everything else. It's uh 55,000 for one of the properties. I thought about getting rid of that one just because of the >> going to say, yeah. How many How many investment properties do you have?

Um I have uh four. Okay, and they all have mortgages on them?

Yes, but they're all I mean, there's all There's plenty of equity in all of them, but the highest interest rate is one that's 55,000. >> sold I'm just curious. I am

If you sold all your all four investment properties, I'm just curious.

And paid off all the mortgages, how much equity, how much cash would y'all be sitting on?

If we sold everything, sold all the investment properties, and paid off my mortgage? No, no, no, no. Didn't pay off yours. Paid off the the mortgages on those properties. So, what would you net out?

Oh, with the money from the card, uh there's not enough money from the card to pay everything off. >> no, no, Michael. You have four properties.

Here, we have time. We got We got We got 3 minutes. Okay, how How much uh How much is one of the properties? How much do you How much is it worth, and how much do you owe on property number one? >> Um 94 is what's owed, and 120 is what it's

worth. 120, okay. Property two?

Uh 55 is owed, 120 is what it's worth.

120, okay. Property three?

80 is what's owed, 160 is what it's worth. 150?

160. 60, all right. So, we got

The last one? Yep. Property 80 is owed,

180 is what it's worth. Okay.

Got it. Okay, so we got I got like

280, George? Was my math right? I'm >> I'm I'm I'm chicken scratching on this paper. >> 271, final answer, Bob. 271? Oh, that was pretty quick. I I rounded. I'm a rounder. So, that's, you know, that's before any kind of closing costs and realtor fees, but let's call it 250-ish.

>> 250, just for the heck of it, of equity that's in some of these. Okay.

Um I'm just trying to paint I'm just trying to get us different scenarios, cuz when you come into a pile of money, there's a lot of And and because you guys have so

many things happening in your life.

Um And you're asking us The word steward is on the screen, which I'm I'm saying >> it. >> You brought God in, so we're going to >> [laughter] >> We're going to talk about that. We'll go there. I understand.

My pastor and I have talked about like a possible foundation with a little bit of money, or, you know, help paying for some missions. >> Generosity comes from overflow. And right now, you know, if you look at Proverbs, the borrower is slave to the lender. So, right now, we're not in freedom there.

>> worldview um with our money, every time debt is mentioned in scripture, Michael, it's in a negative fashion. It is not a sin, so you're not going to like go to hell cuz you have a HELOC. Like, none of that, okay? It's not a sin.

>> hell is in HELOC. I just want to put that out there. >> Oh, that's true.

Uh you know, you don't have to confess anything. Like, it's not a sin. Um but every time it is mentioned, it is negative. It's a curse on your family.

You are a slave to the lender. It is not good. Like, nowhere in debt in scripture

is debt good, okay?

So, Michael, I'm going to be a little hard on you, but you have been playing around the edges and the fringes of this debt world. HELOCs and credit cards and four mortgages and I mean, it is like you have become You have loved debt.

Like, you do. You use debt as a tool, and it's gotten you in a really bad spot. And now This is going to be so sacrilegious. I was going to say, like a Get out of hell free card? Get out of hell free card came upon you.

And so, if we're going to go all in with

the biblical perspective, let's go all in. And let's just pay everything off.

Let's sell everything. Let's start with no debt. [music] And if you did that, you would have probably almost 300,000 back in your pocket after you sell everything and and pay off the primary home with the proceeds of the card. $300,000 in the black, Michael.

You got this, man. >> Hey, that puts this hour in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 8. A Proven Plan Beats A Quick Fix Every Time | August 27, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SrYkiFniOk) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:10:45 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music]

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual

amazing relationships. George Camel,

number one best-selling author, host of the George Camel Show, a big hit on Ramsey Network, YouTube. Be sure and

check him out. He's my co-host. 88 8255225 is the number here. Lori is in Oregon.

Hi Lori, how are you?

>> I am doing very well, thank you and thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Well, um question. My husband's 71 and

he owns his own business and still working and he probably always will. Um,

I'm 69 and I retired about four years ago after 30 years with a local

government agency and I receive a small pension and social security.

Um, we have about 500k

in savings, which would be CDs and

highinterest um, just savings accounts.

and we have about 700K in our retirement

funds and we own our own home which is

worth about 400K.

>> Way to go. >> Um, thank you.

>> Look at you retiring a millionaire.

>> I am so proud of of both of us.

>> You did really well. I I assume you started with nothing and you did not inherit this.

>> That's correct. >> Good for you. Um, I only had come across

you in the last year. But the amazing

thing was I grew up mostly with my grandma who had exactly the same advice

as you. So I followed her advice and

found that you gave the same exact advice. >> Gods and grandma's ways of handling money. It's called common sense.

>> You know, I think you've bottled common sense. But we've worked really hard. We

have one son who is now an attorney. Um

he worked his way through college and law school. We helped him with um what

he couldn't quite um afford. So he

graduated several years ago and he's been an attorney for two years now with no debt also. We're very proud of him.

>> Well, you guys have done a great job, Lori. How can we help today?

Well, my question is, we have the

500,000 in CDs that will be coming due

um here the end of the year and in the

spring. We're getting about 5% on those certificates.

>> My question is, should we shift those over to um the market?

>> Yes.

>> Okay, that's what I was thinking. Um,

what should we be keeping in our

emergency fund and our liquid fund?

>> Three to six months of expenses plus money for anything you're wanting to buy.

>> Okay? >> If you're getting ready to buy a car, you're getting ready to go on that trip you've saved for your whole life, uh, you're getting ready to do something expensive and you need to set aside some money for that plus your emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses.

>> Okay? I want you to I want you to sit down with a Smart Vtor pro. Go to ramseysolutions.com.

Click on smartvester. If you don't have a good advisor and have someone teach

you about the kinds of mutual funds you can park this in, and I want you to do it sooner rather than later. I personally was online with my guy this morning moving some money, making sure I got it into the market because I I looked up and I had too much sitting like you did. I didn't in a money market and high yield and I didn't want to do that because here's the thing.

>> That's what I was looking at also. So um

the one thing my dream trip when I turn

70 next year I would like to go to

Australia. >> You need to go. It's a wonderful trip >> and they're wonderful people. I love the Australians.

I and I was looking at the expenses.

I've never been on a cruise and I've never been quite that far away from home. Um,

my question is, can we afford that?

>> You can't afford not to do it. You have to do this.

>> You've done such a wonderful job, honey.

The difference that in this conversation, >> investing this money versus high yield will pay for the trip.

Oh, okay. I didn't think of it that way.

>> I did. I mean, 50 50 grand is a great

trip to Australia.

>> You can stay anywhere, do anything. You can have a private butler with you.

Yeah, it'll be great. >> And it won't cost you, but a a percentage of a percentage of your net worth. So, you're going to >> You have done such a good job. I want you to enjoy your money as well as be

generous with your money as well as continuing to be wise with your money.

You've done just you've just done wonderful. I do not and you know I want you to start planning that trip today and look at some of the high-end cruise lines. Don't you cheap out on me, girl.

Okay? Get the nice stuff. Don't go on the Walmart cruise. Okay?

>> I mean, we're talking we're talking the big dog, the big dog here, the Nordstrom cruise or whatever. Right. >> Dave has graduated over the years and you've done nicer and nicer cruise lines >> and nicer and nicer trips. I I I got to tell you, if you want to travel, well, you travel with me cuz I'm not going to go that way anyway.

I'm not doing it anymore. I fall it falls under the heading of life is too short and I'm right behind her in age. So, there we go.

we're going to do it. >> This is the live like no one else. >> So, I mean, if you're 70 and you've got a couple million dollars or million and a half dollars, folks, you're and your house is paid for, you're in great shape. And look at it this way. You might have 10 years of good health. You

might have 15. You might have 20 years

of good health. But so when someone asks you a question like, "Should you do this?" The answer is, "Why wouldn't I?

You've done it all. You've worked all your life to get here. You've lived like no one else. And so now you live like no one else. Why wouldn't I?" And I'm I'm hanging on this subject with this caller, George, because I want all of those 23 year olds that are listening and watching us to grasp that this is the payoff. This is how it really works.

You can't wait on the government to tax billionaires to make you rich. That's called socialism. It's never made anyone rich except the people running the place. And so what makes people rich is what she did and what her husband did.

And there's the payoff. Okay? And you don't even have to wait until you're this old to do it. But you know I if you

do the stuff we teach, you're going to be right where they are and more >> and you get to do this. This is the they they are the poster children for uh hardly children but poster children for uh uh live like no one else and later you can live and give like no one else.

And I was discussing some uh generosity on on with a friend of mine this morning that we're talking about doing this. Kind of outrageous and it's just a lot of fun. George, >> yeah, this is the healthy side of yolo.

You only live once. This is what you hear from young people. Well, now Lori, we're going Lori, you only live once.

Use this wealth now. You've done such a great job building it. Now you're in the deaccumulation where you can enjoy some of it. Get >> and and after you finish with Australia, you need to try New Zealand. It's neat, too. So, just while you're down there, while you're down there running around upside down, you might as well hang out.

And uh or or make plans to go back the next summer. I don't care. You're going to love it. And again, I I have gone to

uh all over the world to countries that are don't even that I didn't even know their names when I was growing up. And I find the nicest people everywhere I go.

This world is full of wonderful people.

There's a lot of great folks out there.

I I find very few countries that I just go, "This place stinks. These people stink. I don't want to go back." Because very few of those you you know very few.

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[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

[Applause] Jordan is in Washington. Hi Jordan. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing great. Glad to be here.

>> Good to have you. How can we help?

Hey, so um I gotta calm myself down a

little bit. I've been listening to the show pretty much non-stop. I'm a janitor, so I have hours and hours and hours to listen to podcast. So I've been binging your guys' stuff in the last couple of weeks. >> Wow. >> My main question Yeah. Yeah. Um my main

question, we um we are wanting to

potentially sell sell our house. Uh we're just kind of starting the baby steps though, so I'm like really into I want to pay off her debt. I want to get this uh um emergency fund set up and

stuff first, but my wife, you know, it's been really emotional kind of with her.

Uh we got four kids at home. She's um she's doing all the homeschooling and kind of trying to take care of everything. And it's not really a house that she wants to be in. So, in my mind,

I'm very logical trying to think like, hey, we could do this in like the next two years, but I also see our house value has gone up like $100,000. It's probably worth about 30 305. We bought

it for like 219. Um, and I've got about just under 200,000 uh left on it. Um,

and but the other thing is we've also got a lot of new housing being built in the area. So, I'm not quite sure how that's going to affect their housing uh price and if that's going to go up in the next few years and if waiting a little while would >> they're not building houses in your price range. Your house is going to go skyrocketing in the next few years.

Okay. Yeah, >> the new houses are more the new houses are more expensive.

>> Okay. So, it's definitely we can we can expect a a increase. Yes. In our

>> Okay, that's what I was thinking and that's kind of what I was looking for. And as I've been walking my wife through this and kind of saying like, hey, this is what our budget looks like and this is how much money we've got. We've already stopped the retirement, so I'm bringing in about a thousand a little extra a month. And then I just started doing dual dash on the side. >> Cool. How much debt have you got?

Um, we've got about 31,000. There's

about 5,000 in credit card debt. I can have that paid off very easily by the end of the year. And then part of part of this question also was that I have $26,000 on our sighting um on our house.

Like right when we got in um there was a contractor door to door person was like, "Hey, we can do your sighting, your windows." And I was like, "Well, there's a couple holes in the sighting. It probably hasn't been replaced in the last 20 years, so sure, let's do that." Um, so I actually wasn't sure if that would qualify as debt that would be paid off in step two or if we should >> What's your uh what's your household income?

>> Um, I'm making for my janitorial job about 64,000.

>> Um, I bring out about 4,000 a month just

recently since I stopped all the extra payments and stuff. About >> 4,000 a month. And then >> I' I'd love to see you plow I'd love to see you plow through it. The way we decide if something is uh real estate debt or if it's baby step two is if the

second mortgage, in this case the sighting loan, is more than half your

annual income. This is right close. So it's kind of on the bubble. So as far as I'm concerned, you could throw it either direction, but I'd prefer, if I were you, to be clear of it as soon as possible. >> I mean, if you can clear you can clear debt at what, two grand a month?

>> Um, we haven't. We just kind of started

messing around with the every dollar budget. Um, >> so I've got the free version. We're just kind of dinking around and I'm thinking

>> that it probably be closer to a,000, maybe 1,200. I don't think we could clear to 2,000. >> Okay. >> But we just you're getting started. I want to aim that way. And you know, if you don't clear it before you sell the house, that's fine. Um, if you want to sell the house, you want to move up in house. That's what you're telling me.

Are you sure you can afford that?

>> Well, actually, my wife is wanting to move down to Oregon. So, that's another conversation that we're we're trying to have right now cuz >> that's a completely different twist on what we were talking about. So, is are the house going to be more expensive the same or less?

>> Uh, we would probably go down. Um, because right now I think our mortgage, we got a 30-year first-time home buyers thing. We got PMI. If you're going down in mortgage, there's nothing stopping you from doing it immediately.

>> Okay. You mean there's nothing stopping me from selling the house? >> Yeah. And moving to Oregon >> if you're going down be able to make the same. >> I'm sorry. That's >> You wouldn't make the same in a janitorial job over there.

>> Yeah. So, I work as a government uh contract. >> So, the the thing that's stopping you is you have to find a job in Oregon. That's the thing that's stopping you.

Okay. So if you had that if you had that lined up. So I'm going to start looking for that >> and make her dreams come true cuz it also is is congruent with >> uh you know clearing all these debts because the siding will be paid when you sell the house.

So maybe six months.

>> Okay. That's a lot faster than I was expecting. Well, I mean, it's it's all has to do with you having housing that is the same or less price and you having a job >> and you'll have, you know, the fees that are associated closing costs, real realtor fees, plus you're going to pay down the debt. So, you won't have as much to put down on the next as you might think.

So, that might be another piece of the puzzle to solve. That might mean we're going to delay this for 6 months or a year. It's not going to happen tomorrow. >> Yeah.

now I hear you very excited about doing

this stuff and I'm excited that you're excited. She's at home fighting the bear with four kids. She ain't excited right now. >> Yeah, it's been it's been growing on her a little bit and I think she's been asking to have a budget date for a while. >> Yeah. So, talk about where where this takes us before you talk about how we get there. >> Talk about why before you talk about how. Talk about why until she finally

says, "I agree with why. Now, how do we

do that?" And then we start talking about what the sacrifices look like to get to the winning to go across the finish line. >> It's a dream day. So we get the why and then we go, okay, what must be true now?

Let's reverse engineer it to figure out how we get there. Well, I need a job making this much. >> Yeah. But I mean, I do stuff like he's doing. I And that is I find something and I get on it and I I go down the rabbit hole and I binge, you know, I'm going to learn everything there is to know about it. And then uh I've got 73,000 hours invested in this subject

and my wife has 73 minutes and then I

expect her to not to understand what I'm saying and why I'm excited. And so I have to go all the way back to the beginning and say why I got excited about this and then talk about what it means. >> But often times if you get excited and you come start coming you go, "Honey, I got this great plan. We're going to sell your car." That doesn't work. Okay?

That doesn't work at all. Oh, coming in a little little strong there. >> Coming in hot. Coming in hot.

Yeah. So, yeah, that that's a problem. So, Jordan, thank you for being a new listener. Hang on.

We will set you up with the Every Dollar Premium version so you and your wife can accomplish these goals. It sounds like you will do it. Uh again, it's got to do with a career move as much as anything here and start working on it. >> Yeah.

>> You know, you can find something. There's no reason you can't get a good job in today's world. It's it's very doable.

>> If they like the house, almost never

because unless the house is like a 50% of your take-home pay or something, you can't afford it. >> So, if the mortgage is far too much and there's no interest, >> if the mortgage is reasonable and they like the house, usually the house is not the problem. I would prefer to plow through the debt. Now, if you're facing bankruptcy because you got so much debt and the sale of the house clears up all that debt and you don't have to file bankruptcy, well, obviously you're going to do that.

Or if the house if you hate the house in her case, she hates the house. She's trapped in a small house with four kids homeschooling and she wants out of dodge. Oh, add to that. She wants to go to Oregon.

Ah, so there's a whole another thing, family and all that, the the draw with the kids and get back to grandma.

So, uh, that's all tied in. So this house is not something they want or at least she wants anyway. He's willing to

sit there for a minute. Uh if it means if it's the best way, but the be there's no reason to stay in this house.

>> Yeah. >> They don't like it and and they're ready to move to another state and everything else. And so um yeah, it's not a bad thing. >> It's part of a bigger plan.

You're doing it for the right reasons, not just well cuz part of it is we see people just sell the house, but then no behavior change happens. Exactly. Just a get out of jail free card. >> Exactly.

And even if you wanted to sell the house and it has that effect, that's dangerous >> cuz you need to build the muscles and the calluses and say, "I'll never I'll never go back into debt." >> I'll never go.

>> It's too pervasive. Everybody thinks you're weird when you're debtree.

>> Uh because you're not broke anymore like they are.

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James is in Atlantic City. Hi James. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh so I have recently moved to Atlantic City maybe about seven months ago. Uh

came from a small town, had no casinos, had no access to gambling where I was from. Uh and since then I have picked up

a pretty nasty habit of going to casinos. Um in the past couple of months, I would say less than two months, maybe

six weeks or so, I've lost about 45 to $55,000 of my money. Basically everything that I have. Um, it started small, started with little bets, $25 here and there, uh, going out with some of my new friends that I met in town. And then all of a sudden, before I know it, I was going out alone. Uh, bets went up to 100 bucks a night, and then 500 bucks a night, and then next thing you know, I'm going in two, three, four, $5,000 a night. And, uh, over the course

of maybe a week and a half, I really lost a big chunk. And I tried to chase it. And then over the past maybe three weeks or so, I've lost everything.

>> James, I'm sorry. How old are you, honey? >> Uh, just turned 25.

>> Pretty scary to be this out of control, isn't it? >> Yep. Uh, what's what's really kind of scary for me, too, is I don't I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't do anything at all. I live a a fully sober life. I don't do anything else. I've never had an addiction to anything. Never used nicotine, nothing. So, first

real addiction I think I've ever felt.

>> Yeah. Well, you're feeling one. There's no question. I mean, you have all the symptoms anyway of somebody who's in the throws of that. Um, you I mean, you're

watching yourself almost an out-of- body experience do life destroying things and

still do them anyway. That's that's the sign of an addict, right?

>> Yep. And what what what's really crazy to me is it's it's like I black out whenever I go. I don't even it just feels like I'm not even myself. And then the second I leave the casinos, it feels like I'm kind of back and I I realize what I did after. >> Are you Are you working?

>> Uh yeah, I am. >> What do you earn, sir?

>> Uh about 120 a year.

>> Doing what?

>> Uh I own a business.

>> Okay, good. Good. All right. Um well, if

I woke up in your shoes is how we answer questions on this show. Uh George and I are not uh PhD in counseling like Dr.

John Deloney who's on with us from time to time. Uh but sadly for 30 years I've

dealt with uh addicts and um because

100% of addicts eventually have financial trouble. Um and so um I'm

afraid I've gotten to know something about this the hard way just by working with a lot of folks struggling with this. Um so from that that's the basis

I'm answering the question on. So I'm not telling you I'm a clinical expert.

I'm not. I'm just a practical expert because I've dealt with so many people in your situation. So, if I woke up in your shoes, what would I do? Um, I I I

would do uh three things immediately as soon as you hang up the phone. Okay.

One, I would find Gamblers Anonymous in your area and contact them. GA, it's

Alcoholics Anonymous for Gamblers, 12step program. Okay? And they have probably one of the better results of

helping people with this than anybody out there. Number two, I would find a

coach or a counselor, uh, a therapist in

the area that you can meet with one- on-one and you make enough money to afford to meet with someone one-on-one and you need to start meeting with them immediately, you are in crisis,

okay? They got to give you language for the way your brain is functioning so you can learn how both of those places will help you with that. So you can learn how to navigate your way from this.

Okay. Now, you moved to Atlantic City to open this business.

>> Uh, no. I I I I've been there for here

and there with family and kind of been out there and then I I guess you could say yes, technically. Um, but I didn't move there to open it specifically. It just kind of happened that way. >> Okay. What is your business?

>> Uh, it is electronics.

>> What's that mean? >> So, uh, selling, fixing phones,

computers, uh, >> basically anything. If you don't

have success doing those two things, and the third one I'm going to tell you is uh find a good church in your area, and start developing relationships with good men that are not hanging out in casinos.

Okay? If those three things together, gamblers anonymous, a therapist, and a good church, and revitalizing or causing

for the first time your spiritual awakening inside of you, um that's going to be part of your healing process. If you can't get those three things together to work, you have to move away from the casinos.

>> Mhm. >> I live in Nashville. There's not any here.

>> A big problem I've been really having recently is uh like life has just become

not fun anymore. like daily things or I don't I don't get the the level of excitement that I need from anything at >> it's a it's a false narrative because the um what happens is that anytime you're in an addictive feedback loop um

the the addict's mind says the only fun

thing is when I'm doing the addiction

>> and so everything else is boring.

>> You're chasing that high and so you always need the newer, better, crazier high. And that's what happened in your situation. So, you're going to need to replace those habits with other things that are healthier. Do you have any hobbies currently?

>> Uh, not not anymore. I mean, I used to be into sports and uh back where I was from, I had a lot of friends, but since I've moved up here, I I don't really know many people. So, >> yeah, you you've got to rebuild you got to rebuild a uh a friend group

intentionally as a part of this healing that is not going to casinos because you do become who you hang around with. You noticed that, right?

>> Uh definitely. And then they push me. I mean, the friends I go with, they bet big money, so it kind of pushes me to to, you know, I >> Yeah. You feel like a wimp when you're dropping 10 and they're dropping a hundred. >> Yep. >> Or they're dropping a 100 and you're dro or they're dropping a thousand and you're dropping a hundred, whatever it is. But yeah, you feel like a wimp.

>> And that the tr the opposite is true. I I'm the biggest wimp of all if that's the case cuz I can walk through those places and watch other people lose money all day long. Doesn't bother me a bit.

I'm not I'm not I don't feel pressured at all to join the parade of bodies

created by these things. And um you know, I'll throw out one other piece of information. James, will you do those three things for me to take care of James?

>> Yes. And uh something I've already done as well is uh Atlantic City has a

government funded uh trying to think of a way to phrase this, like a kind of like a GA almost. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I I I don't know anything about the inner workings of that or if it's successful, but I'm always suspect when the fox says, "Oh, to the hen house, here's how you fix it." You know, it's it's it's funded by the gambling people. I So, I mean, I'm not saying it's nefarious. I don't think it is. I think it's well-meaning. Uh but

it's also a reaction to they had to do something because the PR around the number of lives they're destroying is pretty incredible. And so they had to so well if you have a gambling problem dial 1 800 I've got a gambling problem and they put that after all the FanDuel ads now after FanDuel made about $80 billion

a minute off of people just like you >> and so it just pisses me off. But yeah, I I'm that's a good that's not a bad move, but it can't be your only move.

>> Yeah. And then on top of that, there might need to be some guard rails around your your bank accounts and your finances to stop you from doing something rash and spending a lot of money. That might mean putting limits on your bank account so you can't spend over a certain amount or if you have a trusted friend that can keep you accountable. Uh that's going to really help with this just to remove you.

Right now you need more friction stopping you from doing the thing. >> So as much friction as we can add removing apps stopping you there. I know there's some apps out there that can help with that as well as I was looking this up. Gamb blocker.

There's all kinds of things out there that can help, but it's the one which one are you actually going to stick with and do? That's the question.

yesterday uh scarcity loop >> is the book. Yeah, read read Scarcity Loop by Michael Est. And um it's a good

book. It's worth reading. Um, and any of you that are just interested in this subject, he does it's a full unpacking of how the feedback loop works in the brain on several different things. And >> scarcity brain.

Michael Easter. >> Scarity brain. Thank you. And I called him yesterday.

M. Sorry. Michael familiar. >> Yeah.

Michael Easter. Thank you. I know him and he's been here and been on the show, been on stage with us and I should have known his name. I apologize.

Michael, but he's brilliant. My my brain couldn't scarcity brain.

thing that covers in that he gets into in this book and it's pretty it's very interesting read. >> Yeah. The good news is Mike uh James is young enough that he's going to recover from this and it'll just be a giant stupid tax hopefully he looks back on.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> You I lost $50 in one night when I was 21 playing a hand of poker I didn't know how to play. The last time I played Wow.

That was 45 years ago.

>> Touch the hot stuff once. >> My addiction lasted one night.

>> Short lived.

[Music]

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[Music]

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trainings. There's new trainings every week this month and they're always hosted by one of the Ramsy personalities. George, when's your next one? >> I think I've got one uh next week or week after that. And we got Jaden Rachel up in the meantime. >> All right. Depending on when baby That's right. I'm on baby watch. >> There we go. So depend on that.

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Stacy's in Texas. Hi Stacy. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> I have a question about what to do about my car. Um, I am in desperate need to

get rid of it. The car payment is

astronomical. Um, the interest rate is astronomical and I'm trying to decide if I can do like a voluntary repossession, how bad that would be on my credit. Um, because I'm about $20,000 upside down.

Did you trade negative equity from the other deal into this one?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Because typically a car won't lose that much unless it's a huge expensive car. So, uh, who Okay. Well, what kind

of car is it? >> It's a Hyundai Palisade uh 2024.

>> Oh, jeez. Okay.

>> I know. >> Yeah. And um >> so bad. >> Yeah. And And what do you owe on it?

>> 57. >> 57.

57. >> And you think it's worth 37?

>> Yes, if that. Why? >> More like 345.

>> Why? >> Uh because I've had it appraised, I guess you could say, at different places to see what I could get for it. And >> so you went to you went to dealers and asked them what they would give you for it. >> Uh basically. Yeah. Well, I also went to Yeah. to different car >> lots. That That's a wholesale. Okay.

That means they're going to buy it at a price that they can make money on it.

And so that tells me that if you look this up on kelly blue book kbb.com and

look at private sale, if you were to sell it to an individual, that price is between wholesale and retail. It's between what a dealer will ask for it versus what a dealer will give for it.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> So my guess is >> it was about 42.

>> Yeah, that's more Yeah. And I'm thinking maybe like 43 or 45 is what I was getting ready to say. So I'm making that up, but just based on the percentages of what it usually is. Yeah, I'm seeing 41 44 on here just looking them up what they're actually selling for in the market right now. Used.

>> So, okay. So, that leaves you more like So, if you got 44 or 43 for it, that leaves you more like 13,000 in the hole.

>> Yeah. >> And what is your interest rate?

>> 8%. >> 8%. Okay.

>> I know. It's so bad.

>> Okay. And so, do you have any money?

>> Not really. >> Well, it's not really, ma'am. Not really. >> What's that? >> That really means >> means you have something you don't want to tell me about. What is it?

>> No, I mean I have all kinds of debt. I have all kinds of debt. Um and I have other I have other you know credit card debt. I have student loan debt. I have >> How much other debt do you have?

>> About 70,000. I have 10,000 in credit card, 60,000 in student loan debt.

>> Okay. And another 10 in something else.

>> Yeah. And on negative equity loans.

Well, it's more like an unsecured loan.

Okay. All right. And what do you make a year? >> 60,000. >> Okay. And you don't have any money, literally?

>> Well, I mean, I have like $2,000.

>> Okay. That's what I was asking. That's that I was hoping you had something.

Okay. Good. >> Yeah. >> And um and you're apparently the language you're using, you're single.

>> Actually, I'm I am married, but my

husband doesn't he his finances are not

with mine. Okay. And thus we have part of the

problem. >> Yeah. >> The um So, does he have any money?

>> He has lots of money.

>> Okay. >> He has all kinds of money. He makes 15,000 a month. >> Okay. Then we don't have a money problem. We have a marriage problem.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, that's how we're going to solve the car problem. We're going to solve the core problem that caused the car problem. The car problem is a symptom. It's not the problem. the

credit card debts and the other loans are a symptom. Uh you're trying to act like you have a rich roommate instead of a husband. He's trying to act like he has a poor roommate instead of a wife,

>> right? >> While you go out here trying to exist and run around doing things that are killing you, he makes plenty of money to have bought a car.

>> This is ridiculous. >> Is his name on any of the debts?

>> No, because he he had had an affair and he left for a year. So that's why I'm in so much debt because he left and he didn't pay for anything while he was gone. So I had to get a car and I didn't have any credit at the time to speak of.

So I just got and that's why my interest rate was so high. >> Um so I just was it's kind of like desperate measures.

Um so when he came back >> But you had another car at the time. You just upgraded during the time he was gone. >> Yeah. Because my other car was breaking down >> and so he >> So was your heart. Yeah. Um.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, he came back. You let him come back.

>> Tell me about >> I did. >> So, how how's the overall relationship thing? Are y'all seeing a therapist or how you working through that?

>> It's very it's a very shallow relationship. If I try to talk to him about money, he says it's my problem.

>> Um, and I try to ask him about the car and he's like, "You got yourself into you have to get yourself out of it." Yeah. >> So, um there's really no forward progress on any of that. Um it's very >> okay. You guys need to be seeing a therapist and you guys need to be moving towards healing or towards ending this.

And then you figure out what you're going to do from this point forward because this this is um all of this is

the backdrop for some really sad bad

decisions on your part because you were desperate, you were scared, you were heartbroken, you weren't thinking clearly and a car dealer ate your lunch.

>> Right. And so, um, that's the back but

the backdrop is is that you're actually better than the person who went in there and let that happen.

>> But you were you were at a weakest moment. >> Yeah. >> So, we've got to get rid of the weakest moments. And that's him.

>> So, either this marriage starts healing or he's going away.

>> Yes. Yeah. That's the That's where we're at. >> Yeah.

>> But Yeah. Yeah. And I just don't know because my card payment is so is so high and I just don't I want so badly to get out of debt and I just cannot >> I don't want to go out of I don't want to get out of debt bad enough to do a deal with the devil. So he's either coming to the table, we're going to combine our finances and we're going to dream about living a life together and that includes him cleaning up the mess that he's partly caused >> and he'll have to clean up eventually.

>> Yeah. >> This is going to become his problem.

>> Yeah. How long y'all been married?

>> 12 years. Yeah. Well, um I think he's

going to discover the Texas law is going to give you some of his 15,000 a month.

It's called alimony.

>> Yes. >> So, he's he's getting ready to learn some things about how things work if this doesn't get fixed. So, there's a lot of reason here to fix it. For some reason, he came back.

So, he there's some part of him that wants this to go to get better. But part

of it getting better is a holistic healing of your overall relationship.

and then that fixes your car problem.

Um, if that doesn't happen, then um, you

know, then then you've got a car problem that we don't know what to do with. I will talk about the other parts of it, but I don't want you to I don't want you to 2% of this call is your car. 98% is

your marriage. Okay?

>> Okay? >> And that that makes your life good 10 years from today, not your car being fixed problem. Okay? Okay. So, that that I want you to I want you to hear me loving you that way. Okay. So, the um

if if you're upside down, you've got three choices. Um one is pay it down. Uh

two is borrow the difference and sell it from your credit union or from a credit card. And I would rather you have $13,000 in debt than $57,000 in debt,

right? And get a Hoopde to drive for a while. And yeah, if it breaks down, fix it. Shut up. >> Okay. um that that's probably what's going to happen. The second thing that can happen is you just earn enough by working like a crazy person to pay it down and get it under control so you can get it sold. And the third thing is a voluntary repo. Don't do that for two reasons. One is it trashes your credit.

I'm not all about you building your credit, but it trashes it. And two is you lose control of what they sell it for, and they're going to sue you for the difference. So, they're going to sell they're going to sell that car for 30 and come after you for $30,000 of a

deficit with repo fees and everything on there. Instead, you could be 13,000 in the hole. So, a voluntary repo is a really bad plan. Um, I wouldn't voluntary repo ever. I would just make them take it if they're going to take it.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, George Camel is my co-host.

Courtney is in New York. Hi, Courtney.

How are you? >> Hi, good afternoon. I'm well. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my question today is um regarding

what is the best way to pay down on my debts? Really, they they seem big. They

seem huge. They seem like it's nothing that I'm ever going to be able to pay down in my life. Um the debts that I

have and my husband um combined, I have my own student loan debt, which is around $200,000.

We have a house together, which is also around 200,000 left that we owe. And I

also have a car payment that sits at 20

$22,000. >> Mhm.

>> And like I said, it just seems >> And who's the doctor or the lawyer?

>> I'm actually an athletic trainer and my husband is a mechanic.

>> You're an athletic trainer. A personal

trainer. >> No, not quite. Um, a little bit different, but more like a physical therapist that works with >> sports teams. >> Um, sports teams. Yep. um emergency care, >> emergency response, >> and and um and you paid $200,000 for that degree.

>> Yes, I did.

>> What do you What do you earn?

>> I earn 76,000 a year

>> before investments and um taxes.

>> Before investments come out.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And your husband Your husband makes what? As a >> mechanic. >> As a mechanic. Yep. He makes around 66,000 a year.

>> Okay. All right. And um so we're dealing

with $140,000 worth of income. And um

uh $200,000 house, $22,000 car.

>> You said he has debt, too.

>> He doesn't. The only The only debt he has really is the house that we have together. He has no other cons.

>> So your only debt is a car, student loans, and your mortgage.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. And what part of New York are you in? I've just got New York on my screen. >> Yeah, I'm um actually north of Syracuse.

>> Okay. Okay, cool. All right. Thank god you didn't tell me Manhattan. Okay. Um

>> All right. Uh so good. So you got a good income, >> right? And um so

do you have opportunity to do some side

hustles using your degree your your field >> like personal training and other things?

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. How much can you add to your income if you turn that up?

>> If I were to I mean at one point right

out of college I was doing an extra 20 hours a week and I could bring in an extra 1,500 >> if not a little bit more. >> Yeah. Okay. So, you could bring in 1,500 a week.

>> Uh, yes. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Which is $6,000 a

month, which is almost what you make now, >> right? So, doubling my income.

>> Yeah. And your husband obviously can do some side stuff.

>> Absolutely. >> How many kids do you have?

>> We don't. We have a dog.

>> Okay, great.

>> Okay. >> Bad news for the dog. Nobody's going to be home for a while.

leave some food and toys out.

>> So, the the the bad news is you've got this hole. The bad the good news is is you're trying to shovel it with a shovel half the size that you've owned. You have another shovel the same size in the closet. And so, you're going to both of you have the ability to double your household income for a short period of time and use that to clean the mess up.

I mean, if we start throwing $100,000 a year at debt, I think your debt's going to go away, don't you?

>> Yes. >> And that just means that for the next two years, you're going to work all the time and you'll be debtree,

>> right? It doesn't seem that simple, but

I guess it >> it is. There's another part to it and

that part is living on a written budget, a detailed plan that helps you execute tactically the concept of living on

nothing, making a big extra pile of money, and throwing everything in the house after we buy some food, some basic food. We're not eating out. We ain't got time to eat out. We're working all the time. And we're not going on vacation.

We ain't got time to go on vacation. We're working all the time until we get this mess cleaned up. You've been out of

college what, five years?

>> Yep. >> Yeah. Good guess, Dave. Like, you've done this before. And so, um,

I don't want you to go another five years and still be sitting here because you didn't address this, >> right? >> I want you to get after it. like

um in your world. Your world, the good

news about your world is you have been formally trained in um systems and processes that create transformation,

>> right? >> And that's what I'm giving you. So you you your brain already functions the way we teach.

And one of the things, you know, if you have an athlete come in or a

doughboy come in with a dad bod off the street, you you you know that the best

thing you can do is to shock the system,

not to try to do this gradually over 10 years, >> right? >> And that's what I'm giving you. Shock the system and get it over with. Rip the band-aid off. Don't pull it off one hair at a time.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And that means all guns are pointed to the debt, which means no investing. We're going to pause all the investments. >> Stop all investments. Stop all anything.

100% focus like your freaking life depends on it on this debt. And that's the formula that we have seen transform people's lives when they buy into that.

And the weird thing is the more progress you start making, the more excited you get, the more hopeful you are. Much like if you were coaching someone and they started dropping weight and they started seeing their bench press go up. They started seeing their endurance on the treadmill go up. They started seeing the results of their hard work. Then they lean in even harder. You know what the kind I'm talking about.

>> Mhm. >> Same thing. Same thing's going to happen to you. But it comes from the singular focus. You can't sort of kind of do it.

You tried that for five years, >> right? And I think that's where like my we my husband and I have been really talking about it recently and his thought on it. I I'm with you on the

approach of ripping a band-aid off, taking care of it, and getting rid of it. I think the way his thought process is is that we'll be in debt forever and we're doing okay. Yeah, we live.

>> He's wrong on both counts. You're not doing okay, and you're not going to be in debt forever. I'm not going to let you. It's silly. Don't live like that.

Life's too short. That's a hopeless reason. That's a fatalistic hopeless thing. I'll always be fat, so I'm going to keep eating donuts, >> right? >> It's the same thing. Well, of course you're always going to be fat cuz you keep eating donuts.

>> Gez, come on.

>> You know, this is me talking to me now, right? Little self counseling here.

Yeah. Yeah. That that's it.

>> Donate quickly.

>> Yeah, that's that's how it works though. the parallels in your world to our world because it's personal finance is 80% behavior. It's 20% head knowledge. So

hope which is the opposite of your husband's statements. He probably has more hope than his negative statements. But hope

is is is one of the equations in transformation because we have to change behaviors. We don't change behaviors unless we think that they're going to result in a positive result. That's that's that's intelligence. So, you would never go do the hard work if you didn't think it was going to work. The difference is I'm 100% sure what I'm telling you to do will work if you guys will go do it game guns of blazing.

>> The simple part is the math. I mean, you throw six grand a month to debt, it's gone in 37 months. That's the math of it. The hard part. >> Throw 10 grand at 24 months.

>> Exactly. So, that would be the game plan. Let's get out of debt in 2 years instead of, well, I guess we'll just always have a payment in our life.

That's no way to live. >> Yeah. Come on. Let's uh let's set Eeyore out in the backyard and let him graze.

If Eeyore is your spirit animal, people, you got trouble.

[Music]

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>> Dave is in Long Island. Hi Dave. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, right now I I'm I'm considering taking money out of my 401k to pay off my total debt. Right now, I have a total of 35,020

in in total debt. And it's really the credit card that I have that's killing me. It's a 25.8%

APR on it, which is ridiculous. And it's just And it's, you know, >> what is the 35? Give me the breakdown on the 35,000 that debt.

>> Okay. I have um 13,323

owed to the federal government from taxes. Um I have $13,250

owed to Chase. Um that's the credit card. I have $4,99

owed to my car and then I have an additional $1,138

owed to a T to um another TD credit card.

Okay. And what do you make, sir?

>> I make um my household income is 205,000.

>> Wow. >> It's a great income. >> Why do you owe taxes?

>> So, when my wife and I were my wife and I have been married for 9 years, we went through a really rough cash probably like two to three years. Um at some point, we were separated and we were just not on the same page. We used to be really um uh really intense about our uh

budget meetings and we would meet every day. We we actually paid we actually were a graduate from FDU.

>> Honey, why do you owe taxes?

>> Oh, the tax because um it was I I changed my tax. I changed my tax to having um to having to being single on my on my taxes. And then when

I tried to change it back, we don't have a formal uh HR department. So they I was

making changes but it was a glitch in the system that kept reverting back to my to a single state.

>> So they w it was not being enough withheld. How long have you owed the IRS?

>> Um like a year and a half.

>> Okay. That interest rate makes a credit card look cheap.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. The great

news is you only owed you you make $25,000.

So, you can clean this up real quickly on your own, but you're you're telling us you want to go borrow more money to pay off the other debt at the tune of 30 40% interest, which is effectively what you're doing from robbing the 401k early.

>> Oh, I don't think I They were saying that the interest rate was only like 5%.

>> Oh, you're talking about borrowing on your 401k, not >> Yeah, borrowing. >> Okay. Borrowing. Yeah, borrowing on it.

So, you're going to try to borrow your way out of debt. You make 205,000. Dude, why don't you just get on a budget and cut it and pay off 35,000 in like eight months?

>> I make $200,000.

>> So, the thing is I'm like talking to my wife and she still wants to keep like putting money aside for our daughter and then her life insurance is also pretty very high. She has um a uh pre-existing

condition that we didn't find out until we until she was giving birth. So, her life insurance is like around $200 a month. And then you know the rent we pay is like is uh 3,50 a month.

>> Okay. You're not doing math well. You make $25,000 and you said she pays $200 for life

insurance as if that was a problem.

That's 2,400. That's 1% of your income.

>> That is not the problem, honey. The problem is you guys are not on a plan.

You're not working together and you're spending like you're in freaking Congress.

You got to stop all investments temporarily and that includes saving for the kids temporarily. And I want you to clean this up in under a year.

>> You make 205,000.

>> That's true. Yeah, you're absolutely right. >> Yeah. I mean, let's do let me do let me help you. 205US 35 is 170.

Yeah, >> you still got 170,000 minus taxes to

live on. Cry me a river.

>> Seriously, >> clean this mess up. Quit trying to find a hack. The hack is in your mirror, dude. You fix the guy in your mirror and that woman standing beside him and the two of us are working together because we want to get out of debt so we can build an emergency fund so we can build our retirement so we can save for our kids and we can become wealthy and change our family tree.

Now we got something to live for. It's time to get dialed in and focused. Y'all just been disorganized and lazy and and distracted by the rough patch that you went through.

And um the good news is is that you called the right people that loved you enough to tell you the truth.

>> And the math on this is real simple.

When you make this kind of money, I mean, if you guys are bringing home 11 or 12,000, could you throw 4,300 bucks a month of the debt? Cuz that's eight months. You're all the debt's gone. You can still live on, you know, 78 grand.

>> 3,000 bucks a month is 12 months and you're done, man. >> So, I think you can do this even sooner.

But you and your wife got to get on the same page, get on a written budget, and go, "All right, spit shake. we're going to make this work. We're only going to cover the necessary expenses. Every other dollar is going to go towards this debt. And I would start with that IRS debt >> for a short period of time. You start with the IRS and then list the rest of the debt, smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one.

And let me help you with this. The interest rate on $13,000 worth of credit cards when you pay it off in eight or nine months is irrelevant.

The amount of math on that, the actual dollars that math creates is irrelevant.

It's not the problem. If you're going to keep the credit card for 15 years, a 27% interest rate is a problem. But we're going to keep it for 15 minutes. You need to cut them all up. A TV credit card. Come on.

>> Was that T? I don't know. TD. Maybe TD Bank. Maybe that was it. I couldn't hear it. >> Oh, I thought he bought something off the television. >> Oh gosh. I hope not. >> Yeah, like like shopping channel.

>> People still doing that? >> Yeah, that's what I thought. But yeah, I maybe I misunderstand. I but anyway anyway the great news is you have a small amount of debt in ratio to your income and you can clean this up really quickly once you guys decide that that's what you want to do. If you want to work a different plan you called the wrong place cuz we're going to get you out of debt so that you can build wealth so

that you can change your family tree and

be outrageously generous. You live like no one else so that later you can live

and give like no one else. Steven's in Wisconsin. Hey Stephen, what's up?

>> Hey Dave, I got to hear from you. How you doing today, sir? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> You made my day, sir. You made my day.

So, um I'm not sure if I'm being too intense or if I'm just being intentional. I'm trying to pay off my mortgage, but I have a burgeoning tax problem. Uh 53 years old. I'm 41 months

away from paying from us, my wife and I, my partner and I, paying off our mortgage. But when we do, um, that

$800,000 TSP that I have right now is

going to keep growing. And I don't want to eat a huge tax bill when it comes to retirement, and I don't want to pass this burden onto my kids. Do I I I think I know the answer. And I know people call to get a swift kick in their pants.

Don't worry, Dave. I got thick britches if I need this quick. >> You don't You're done great. How much is in your TSP?

>> 800,000. >> Oh, you said that. I'm sorry. My god, son. You're a millionaire. Way to go.

Well, we also have 1.33 total in

retirement. So 800 of that is TSP. The rest is all Roth.

>> Okay. So 800 is TSP. 500 is in other retirement.

>> Correct, sir. Yes, sir. >> Man, well to go, dude. How old are you?

>> 53, sir. >> Oh, you again. You said that. I'm sorry.

My god, this is great. Well done. Very well done. A 53y old multi-millionaire.

What's the house worth?

So, the house is worth uh we owe $349,410.97.

>> And you and your wife are in agreement on the level of intensity to pay that off in 41 months. Is that what you're saying? >> Correct. We are. She is. She's my partner in this. And I >> What is making you think you're too intense?

>> I I I see that 800,000.

I don't think we're ever going to touch that if we don't have to. We're going to live. Well, I mean, we make $310,000 a year. Um, a bunch of that is my military pens. >> What makes you think you're paying off your house too intensely?

>> Just because I'm I'm giving up one to the other and I don't want to step over dollars to pick up nickels and I feel like >> Oh, you stopped adding to the 800.

>> I have. Yes, sir. >> Okay. No, I would not do that. I would continue to put 15% of my income away in retirement in baby step four while we're working on baby step six. And if it takes 49 months to pay off the house instead of 41, whoopde still add to it.

[Music]

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[Music]

Buying or selling a home is a big deal.

There's a lot of drama out there right now. And you can cut through the drama.

You know how you cut through drama and trauma?

Dr. Dr. John Deloney says it all the time. When you're in the middle of drama and trauma, use facts.

Facts are your friends. If you want facts on what's really going on in the real estate world, not what your broke brother-in-law's opinion was because he believes in socialism he learned from his college professor, but instead you want to know what's really going on in the real estate world, just go to our website. We'll show you. Ramseyolutions.com/market or you can click the link in the show notes.

And the actual interest rates that are being charged are out there. the actual volume of homes that are listed is out there and the actual median price and the changes in median price of house prices are there.

actual facts are that today we've got

a,12,787

houses on the market in America. That's

the actual number of listings today.

To put that in perspective, which is the only way that number has any value, it's the largest inventory of homes for sale since 2019, prior to

COVID 19.

H more houses for sale. Oh, wait. More

people are looking at houses at any time since 2019. There are more buyers than there are inventory. Anytime there's more buyers for something than there is something for sale, it causes prices to go up, not down. And we've seen prices hold steady and slightly increase in the

last 12 months.

So we're not seeing a housing bubble.

We're not seeing a correction that some of you predicted. And I told you four years ago, three years ago, two years ago, and one year ago, there wasn't going to be one. >> It's the slowest crash of all time, D. >> And I can just It's been six years.

>> When is it coming? Just crash already if you're going to do it. >> Slow-mo crash. Yeah, that's great. Yeah.

Yeah. If you keep predicting the end of the world long enough, eventually you'll be right. But that's not good economics.

Okay. So, >> I change my prediction every year.

>> Yeah. No matter what, economists and weather forecasters, the only people that can be wrong all the time and still keep their jobs. So, yeah. There we go.

So, if you want to learn more about the facts, ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the show notes. We've got the US housing market trends facts, the data

for you to look at and that'll help you make better decisions.

Kate's in Delaware. Hey Kate, how are you?

Good afternoon, gentlemen. How are you both? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Um, I will give you a bit of background.

Um, my husband and I have been married for 53 years. He's 79. I'm 74.

Uh he has just within the last 5 months

um been designated as 100% disabled

veteran from his time served in Vietnam.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. Um so he is receiving now a um our monthly

income normally is 56.86 combined. >> Mhm. >> Our retirement income. >> Mhm.

is now going to be rece well is receiving now um 5,300

>> more >> extra a month. >> So now you got five now you got $10,000 a month to work with.

>> Correct. >> 11. There we go. Yeah. Wow.

>> Pretty much. Yes.

>> Wow. How's he doing? >> What a blessing.

>> Well, he has Parkinson's. He has coronary artery disease. And he has severe dementia. >> I'm sorry. I have been designated his um

fidiciary and I am designated as his

primary care >> provider. Um and it's all good.

>> Yeah. >> It's just a different season in our life

and we are trying desperately to handle it with dignity and grace and most of

all humor. >> Yeah, I hear you. And so what how can we how can we best >> how do you get >> what I want to know Dave is

how do I best

put into savings this VA money that's

coming into us because it will be have

to be used for his long-term care eventually.

Um, but I need it to be in something

that is giving me more than just my stupid savings account, which it's in now. Um, >> do you have to have immediate access to?

>> Do you do you guys have debt?

>> I have worked our debt down to eight a

little less than $8,000, which is two credit cards. >> Wonderful. Okay, first thing first thing we're going to do is pay those first thing we do is pay those off. Second thing we're going to do is build an emergency fund. Do you have any savings?

>> I have $23,000.

Good. >> In savings. >> Okay. All right. >> So, do I take >> And that is what I've been putting in from his um $5,000 he's getting.

>> Yeah. Okay. I want you to take some of that money and pay off the 8,000 as soon as you can. Okay. Not the 23. Maybe the 23. I don't care. But some of the pay in the next couple months, use these checks to pay off the 8,000 for me. Okay. Now,

you don't have any credit cards and you cut them up. Okay. Now, you just build the savings up as high as you can build it. And um

>> yeah, because >> what kind of vehicle should I have it in? >> Probably a high yield savings account.

And um uh do you guys have a mortgage?

We do. Our mortgage is about is it is

230.

>> Um our house is worth 850.

>> Okay. >> So we do still have a mortgage. My our monthly mortgage is$,940.

>> Is there any um life insurance that has been added with this military package that he just received?

>> Interesting. You should ask. I just checked into that yesterday. They are offering him whole life. >> No, we'll pass >> at a regular at a pretty steep monthly.

>> No, I think we'll pass. >> And I've listened to you long enough to know that that's not where to go.

>> It's not the mil it's it's not the military that's offering that. It's a company that's that milks the military that's offering that. But what I was asking is they they're not furnishing him any kind of federal program with the

disability that includes life insurance that they pay for.

>> That is correct. >> Okay. I was afraid of that. Okay. All right. So, we've got two goals. Okay.

Goal number one is we're piling up cash in a high yield savings account to take care of him >> and his care. Okay. And I want you to keep that in home. I want you to keep that inh home as long as you can by hiring people to help you in the house using some of this money.

That's going to be your least expensive route and your highest quality of care route cuz you can be the advocate and manage the situation. But don't be afraid to use some of the money to hire somebody to help you.

>> Good. Perfect. And then our second goal is um you're you're going to outlive

him. That's statistical. And um so then

what how are we going to set you up later and get rid of this mortgage? And that's our second goal. Okay. So,

>> and how do I do that? >> Um there's not any any magic wands on this, but I just want to be thinking towards those things because the best thing I can do is get rid of that mortgage long term. short term, I'm more concerned about you taking care of him and you um and using your $11,000 a

month because you guys don't spend anywhere near $11,000 to live on.

>> We our monthly expenses excluding

groceries and gas is 4,800.

>> Okay. Well, with groceries and gas, you can you can make it on your first number and your second number's been going in the bank. That's what you're telling me?

>> Yep. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Absolutely. Absolutely.

>> Here's what we're going to do. Okay. I'm going to set you up with a Ramsay coach that's been trained by us as our gift.

No, no cost. Okay. >> Oh my gosh. >> So that cuz somebody can walk with you cuz you need somebody in your corner.

You have been uh an amazing 53y year

wife and he served his country and they waited till he was 79 to bless him with

the disability that was deserved probably 20 years ago. And so we're going to take care of y'all, okay? As best we can. Again, Kate, we don't have any magic wands, but we're going to set you up with a Ramsey coach to do what I can't do on in this setting, which is continue to stay with you and make sure that you're cared for. And you got all the answers and do the very best we can with this extra money now. Wow. Thank

you. Thank you for being who you are, Miss Kate.

[Music]

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[Music]

Today's Ramsey Show question is brought to you by Why Refi? If you've been

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Adam in New Jersey. Dave frequently mentions that teaching is one of the top occupations of those who achieve millionaire status. I have three children in high school and I want to present teaching as an option for them.

My question is how do they become millionaires on a teacher salary?

Great question. So he's referring to our millionaire study we did of over 10,000 millionaires and we rank the careers and

the first one was engineer >> followed by accountant followed by teacher. This was the third career in there. >> Yep. Followed by um business executive

followed by lawyer. MDs didn't make the

top five. They were number six. Just as a thing. So the answer is interesting, Adam. Um you're you're falling for the classic

belief that um income creates wealth.

More that the only way you become wealthy is have a huge income. And as we

studied, George told you over 10,000 millionaires, onethird of them, 33%

never made over $100,000.

So the secret to becoming a millionaire is apparently not just having a larger

income. Now, it doesn't hurt to have a larger income. It's not a bad thing, but it's not the only way to get there because onethird of America's millionaires did not become millionaires because of a high income.

And that apparently is the teacher answer, right? So, what does work? What does work is time and consistency.

$100 a month.

$100 invested from age 25 to age 65

at the S&P 500, which is the average of

the stock market rates is $1,176,000.

$100

per month from age 25 to age 65.

So the secret there is they didn't miss a stinking month for 40 freaking years

and $100 makes you a millionaire.

So the answer is not the amount. The answer is the consistency, the steadiness, the predictability, the discipline, the stick with it. Time and consistency,

not dollar amount, are the primary

indicator. So, if you want to be a teacher and you want to start saving at age 55, you're going to have a hard time getting there. You want to be whatever and making under $100,000 a year and you want to be a millionaire starting at age 55, you're going to have a hard time getting there. But these teachers did not start then.

Most of these teachers started teaching straight out of college and they immediately signed up for their retirement programs and started putting money in every month and it was more than $100 even back then.

freaking seventh grade social studies

and they put money in every single month and they have a 30-year career and it's more than $100 and they've got more than a million dollars in there. Oh, and by the way, they got married and their husband or wife was doing the same thing. So, it's not about, you know, we always hear these ridicul people like, "You're crazy. That's impossible.

Teachers can't you can't make it out of teachers." I listen, you can get mad about it, but it's data.

We didn't make these freaking numbers up. It's not a philosophical argument, you idiot. It's a math thing. You argue with math, you end up looking stupid.

And so these people whailing and nashing

of teeth on Tik Tok that somehow we need

to tax the billionaires. What you need to do is get off your own little butt and get out of your mother's basement. That's what you need to do. And then you can go be somebody, honey. That that's the difference. And so this is how teachers do it. Steady time and

consistency. And it's magical. You know, the first time I saw that I was like 21.

And I was 20 21 years old.

>> When you saw a compound growth work >> when I saw that you could be have $1,176,000 at $100 a month from age 25 and I was 21. >> Wow. >> And I thought I got four years on this.

I can do this. I can do this. You know what I did? I didn't do it.

>> It sounded cool. >> Instead, I went and tried to get rich in real estate and, you know, flipping houses before there was cable TV to tell you how. And I went broke doing trying to get rich quick because I was too stupid to do time and consistency. But the thing that we did discover, Adam, and I think I always because I I was a little bit shocked too when we got the data in, we had several aha moments from

the data on this research that we did not see coming. And one of them was teacher is in the top three. Didn't see

that coming. I would not have predicted that. So you got account, you got engineer, accountant, teacher,

business executive, lawyer. We could not

figure out what was driving and MD is not there. They're number six. Medical doctors number six. Now, medical doctors get there generally because they out earn their stupidity.

They're not generally good with money stereotypically. Okay? There's plenty of them that are good with money, but a lot of docs are just straight up stupid with money. It's not unusual at all. But the other five categories, what we did finally figure out as we sat and brainstormed through what in the world is happening here? All of what do they all share in common? They're all process people.

Okay? There's one way to build a bridge if you're an engineer that it doesn't fall down.

There's a set of mathematical calculations that span that beam that keep the building from falling in. If you put that size beam up, it doesn't fall. You put that size beam up, it does fall. Engineering is not art.

It is science. You have to follow the process or people die. You have to

follow the process or the building falls down, the bridge falls down. Okay.

Accounting. There's not an artistic element to accounting. There's generally accepted accounting principles. You either follow them or you're wrong.

It's called GAP. Okay? In the accounting world, GAP, generally accepted accounting principles. You either do accounting properly or you get the wrong answer. It's a it's a math thing. It's a process. So, find the rules and follow the rules. If you're an engineer, find the rules and follow the rules. Process driven people. If you are an accountant, if you're a teacher, you have a lesson plan. There's a process. You lay out exactly how we're going to handle this classroom. We don't make it up as we go.

Mrs. Doubtfire is not your teacher.

Okay? That's not how this works.

Teachers are process people. Now, some of you think they're they're otherwise and they're loving and they're kind and they are. The good ones are those things, but they're also driving toward an end result of you actually getting an A on the exam because you freaking learned something while you sat in their classroom. That's what teachers do. They drive a process. They're project driven and the kid is the project. Okay? Uh

guess what? If you're a business executive, same thing. Business acumen demands certain principles be followed.

If you're a lawyer, try going before the judge and making up things in the law.

The judge will throw you out. maybe put you in jail for contempt.

Uh they will sit you down counselor, right? There's one way to be in front of

a judge. There's one way to do litigation. Follow the law. Follow the

system. It's a process. And so you submit yourselves in all five of these

um career paths. You submit yourself to

a proven set of truths. The law of gravity is this. If you jump off a building, you hit the sidewalk. And guess what? personal finance is the same thing. You're either going to live on less than you make or you're going to be broke. You're either going to live on a plan called a budget or you're going to be broke. You're either going to invest money or you're going to be broke.

There's really no options here. And the more you stay out of debt mathematically, the more money you've got to invest. The steadier you invest, the more money you're going to have over the longer period of time. Period. There it's a process. The stuff we teach is very the baby steps. We don't let you violate the baby steps. Why? It's just like accounting. You don't violate it.

It's a process. Follow it. It works.

It's called common sense in our world.

We call it a lot of different things. We laugh about it around here, but that's the reason these teachers do so well. Is they're process people and they're not trying to flex either. They're not trying to impress anyone. They're trying to survive running a chaotic classroom.

So, it's that simple. You make 50 grand, invest 15% of that. That's 625 a month.

You'll have $4 million from 25 to 65.

And that's if you never get a raise. >> And so if you're half wrong, they only got 2 million and never got a raise

because it's a mean old school board and people don't love teachers and it's horrible out there in society. We pay athletes more than we pay teachers. Oh my god.

But keep investing.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. George Camel, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, is my co-host today.

Nick is with us in California. Hi, Nick.

How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Oh, so, uh, I I I've been working with a lot of your stuff. Went to part of a course at a church, uh, for you about 10 years ago. Uh, finally started out toward the goal of, um, working the baby steps here. And, uh, hurdle number one arose, which was, uh, my my wife didn't

really want to participate in that. And

um so I I've been going it somewhat alone

and I've worked baby step one and two

and and started into baby step three.

And uh each time I get my my emergency

fund built up, crisis ensues.

And um a lot of the crisis really isn't

crisis at all by definition. It's self-inflicted because one of us isn't on board. Uh okay, that makes sense.

>> So, uh we have 11 kids. Um four four are

grown and out of the house. Uh nine dogs, seven cats, and a tortoise. Uh

most of those were kind of brought in against my will by my wife and my kids.

And uh but here we are.

>> You have how many dogs?

>> Nine dogs >> with 11 kids and a tortoise >> and seven cats.

>> And seven cats. Yeah. What circle of hell have you created?

>> How do they even coexist?

>> That's right. >> What does your house smell? >> The only the only one that's got a chance is the tortoise, >> right? Because it sleeps for 6 months out of the year. I mean, that that's one

easy life. >> Is Is this real? Are you punking us?

>> No. No, this is real.

>> So, your wife started a petting zoo just for the family. >> Everyone's got their own animal. That's good. Everybody's got two.

>> Plus, yeah, plus we have some alternates. Absolutely. >> And you have 11 children. Children like humans. >> Uh, human beings. Yeah. Four are grown and out of the house. So, we're down to we're down to seven in the house now.

>> Seven, nine, seven, and one. I got you.

Okay. >> Yep. Yep. So, >> so how can we help today? Pret So, so,

so recently two of my dogs were incarcerated for biting a neighbor dog and >> talking.

>> Yeah, I know. And uh you know I my

knee-jerk reaction was to surrender the dogs uh which is an awful outcome because they're they're probably going to be euthanized. And um it's not

because I don't love them. It's because in in the end of the day I knew this was going to be an expensive endeavor. Um we

are now to where we know what that what that endeavor looks like and it's about $4,500.

So, the dogs are in a pound because they bit the neighbor dog >> and they want $4,500 to get them out.

>> Is this bail? Well, >> uh, kind of. So, about 2,000 of it is is

fees, but they also want this this very elaborate uh housing situation with

concrete and attachments and roofs and and all of this stuff. So, uh, that that

part of the endeavor be about 2,500 of those dollars.

uh or or they will not release the dogs out on parole if you don't if you don't build them a proper home to suit the uh dictates of the county in California.

>> Correct. >> So, you're going to get them out of prison to create your own prison in your backyard for them to live in.

>> Ironic, right? >> Mhm. >> This doesn't sound like a good life either way. >> Oh, man. >> And is there a chance they'll they'll bite again? >> Oh, yeah. Well,

>> if you were in that situation,

>> I mean, I want to go bite the neighbor's dog myself now at this point. But, uh, >> man, I would move if I was your neighbor. I don't know if I could live next to a petting zoo.

>> Wow. >> That's a lot of barking.

>> Yeah. And and the problem is is that uh at this point, they don't have to bite the neighbor's dog. All they have to do is get out and they're gone.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you're wondering, do you have $4,500?

Yes, I do. >> And you're wondering, should I spend this to solve this problem because I I would hate to see them potentially get euthanized. >> Okay. I um >> it's sad that the dogs are caught in the u the whirlwind hurricane that is your

all's lives. Um and so as you said that

you that you all have created. And so,

um, the the thing is I I don't mind spending money on something if, um, especially my dogs. I love dogs. Uh, if

I create a sustainable situation,

okay? And if I'm not if I'm not kidding myself, in other words. So, I mean, there's a th000% chance that these dogs

are going to have a problem again, no

matter what you do. And um and that they're going to be taken away. This is not a sustainable environment.

Do you agree?

>> Yes, absolutely. >> Yeah. So, you're throwing good money after bad at that point. But what you do need, what you do owe those dogs is to create a better environment. you and your wife have to be more responsible about how you're handling all these decisions. And um that's just it's not

fair to the animals. It's not fair to your kids. It's not fair to the neighbors. Um I mean, you've created an

environment here that's not that's not manageable. It's so the chaos with the numbers you gave us. We can joke and say the tortoise is the only one's got a chance, but it's the tortoise is the only one's got a chance. And so, um,

yeah, this is not a, um, a healthy situation. And I think the local authorities are telling you that in so many words, uh, with their with their mandate to you. It sounds very bureaucratic, and it sounds like they've overstepped uh, bounds, but it is California, so wouldn't be shocking or anything for them to be out of control with regulations. Shock. But um you know

there are I got to tell you there there's people in rural settings all across America right now listening to this shaking their head going puppy ain't going to make it. That's what they're saying. Um because no matter where you what you do with puppy here, puppy's in problem and puppy's going to cause a problem. And so it's um

you know it's your all's job to maintain control over these situations. And you haven't because you've created an untenable situation. Man, I'm sorry.

>> Yeah. >> It's also a big liability. I mean, if that dog bits bit a human, well, there's a lawsuit on your hands that could crush you guys. >> It's heartbreaking. Yeah, >> man. >> Yeah. And um Well, I mean, yeah, it's it's real. Yeah. Um so, I'm I don't know

what to tell you, Nick. I I think the the sad thing is is that this whole thing is so bizarre and so out of control that the dogs being in the pound is is a minor thing compared to all the

rest of things you guys got to deal with. That's just um man, I'm sorry for

the dogs, but they're they were put in a situation they couldn't win. >> Yeah. >> And um and they they were put there by you guys because you allowed it and your wife encouraged it. And um you guys ought to fix that. you really should.

It's not It's not fair to the humans involved. It's not fair to the animals that are involved. And so, yeah, what to

do with the particular puppies, I don't know. But, um, maybe get some clarity on what the next steps would be.

>> Maybe you can find someone to adopt them and take them out to an area where they can thrive. >> If they were rehomed on a farm somewhere where they're not going to hurt anybody. >> Exactly. And where they're not put in a situation where they feel like they have to hurt somebody, >> that changes everything, >> man. >> So, Wow. Those dogs got to be on edge.

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Hey.

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Kelly is with us in Canada. Hi, Kelly.

How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, George. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Hey, I um I want to know the best way um

I've had my head buried in the sand for a number of years. Um, I want to know the best way to um reestablish trust with my wife after a gambling addiction and recombin our finances after a number of years.

>> How long have you been clean?

>> Uh, about six and a half years.

>> Okay. Well, that's that's substantial.

um you know to continue to hold um

something against you from a decade ago um that she's agreed to continue to live

with uh is not logical. So you begin to prove and prove yourself. The way you rebuild trust is is consistency over time. Okay. You become trustworthy

worthy of trust. >> And it it sounds like you've done that.

Is there some other thing you're doing that's giving her causing her to be insecure?

So, um I think for the most part it's

just me just not knowing how to approach this. I've just kind of uh started listening to your podcast, uh got your YouTube channel, all that stuff and binge watching it. And I just like I've become scared and I I just I I

don't I think she I think it's more about how to initiate this and what's the best way like like do we just start combining our finances now just just go

into it head on or do we just do that slowly? So, let me ask you this. Um, I

think I'm hearing you say, uh, maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm If I'm reading between the lines incorrectly, tell me because I'm not positive. Okay. Um, it sounds like that you may still be dealing with shame from six and a half years ago.

>> There's a little bit of that. Yes.

>> Okay. That's fair. A little bit would be fair. Um, I deal with a little bit of shame from having lost everything and filed bankruptcy in 1988.

>> Um, okay. >> So, that's, you know, that's real. It's back there. But the further in the rearview mirror it is, the smaller it is. Agreed.

>> Agreed. And that's, you know, so I don't

um have the same hesitation 30 years later that I did 3 days after filing bankruptcy discussing something and expecting my wife to trust me >> and trust just trust my judgment. I'm an idiot, but trust my judgment, right? You know, and that that's where we started.

And then now from there, we've become we went through a phase where a lot of America was listening to me, but she wasn't.

And then we finally she caught up, you know. So, >> but uh that happens to everybody. But, uh but yeah, that that and that's that's just fair is what I'm saying. When you make a mistake, I think um I'm thinking of atomic habits that James Clear wrote and he he talks a lot in there about forming habits. And the way you change a habit is not a forced discipline gritting your teeth and white knuckling it. It's changing your identity by saying, "I am not a gambling addict. I'm

a person who used to gamble six and a half years ago and doesn't anymore.

>> Yeah. >> I used to be irresponsible with money.

I'm not a person that's irresponsible with money anymore. I used to be a person that was overweight and ate outrageous amounts of volumes of food and now I'm not a person that does that anymore.

I'm a person I'm a fit person now. Now I'm a person who eats reasonable amounts of food. Now I'm a person who's responsible with money. And you change your vernacular around it. uh which kind of is a shame dealing with mechanism. I I thought that was really interesting. I filtered that through my own experience with the shame of filing bankruptcy and I so uh that helped me. So anyway, all that to say um I a good way to approach

a relational conversation of any kind whether it's at work or your spouse or your kids is if something's awkward

or feels weird just say this is awkward

and it feels weird.

>> I still feel honey. I still feel a little bit of shame from 6 and a2 years ago. I may be more worried about me than you are at this point, but I'm also

learning all this stuff about how important it is that we combine finances. And I and I I don't even know how to ask you to trust in this situation, but I think we ought to talk about it because it's weird for me to say it out loud and it makes my stomach hurt to have this conversation. And if you said that, she's probably going to go, "I'm not worried about it. Let's do you know, or she's going to tell you the truth and tell you what's going on >> and maybe say, "Hey, can you help me brainstorm some ideas of things we could do, some next steps we could take that would help us get back to a place where we do have unity with our finances?" >> Yeah.

six and a half days ago, >> six and a half years ago, that she do combine finances with you. I'd recommend that she manage all the household finances and keep your hands off of money until you've proven that you broken a gambling addiction.

That's exactly what she did. We did start off with combined finances and she had to she had to >> she had to manage them all. Yeah. That's the way you that's the way you handle an addiction if you're going to stay together. It's the only way that works.

So, um but now I I really think six and a half years uh from a practical standpoint. I'm not a counselor, but I I'm I'm fine with you combining finances wholesale if you've really been dry and you're really responsible in other areas of your life. and the the fruit of your life, your behaviors make a statement about where your character is. And then I I think you should do it.

let's do that for 90 days and then we're going to combine the accounts if that works.

>> Okay? >> And that's a way to ease into it. I don't know that you need to do that though, unless she's resistant.

>> No, it's more about me, I think.

>> What is the latest conversation been like with her around this or has there been nothing for six years?

>> No, the latest conversation is that okay, like through all the turmoil, um

we we actually separated for uh about a

year, got back together due to financial reasons, we couldn't really afford two separate positions. Mhm.

>> And then the just recently I just said,

"Hey, we like do we want to do this for the rest of our lives or do we actually want to separate?" And we actually started talking about staying together for the rest of our lives. And

the finances weren't part of that. So,

and in terms of the finances though, it's more about okay um we just kind of

handle our own things separately, but we kind of but we're not doing like proper

budgeting in my opinion. >> You're you're yeah, you're losing some synergies and you're losing some of the oomph the oomph forward that you could get were you to completely combine them.

So, I think it's worth talking about and probably worth doing. Um and I I'm going

to recommend you guys just walk head on into it. Um, but I I get that there's a

tender place. Uh, there's scars and you

know, uh, again, I I it was a little different scenario, but we lost everything. The water got cut off. The electricity got cut off. There's babies in the house. She would have left, but she didn't have a car. I mean, that's that's where we were. And so, um,

you know, so when we do anything with

money that makes her that triggers those old wounds, I can see her the shape of her eyes change.

>> I start to see that that that terror look that like two tours in Vietnam look come back over her kind of type of a thing. And it ain't good. And so I go,

"Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We just went somewhere we don't need to go. Let's push pause right here and let's talk this back through again and let's just wait a minute. we don't have to do anything. And uh by the way, you understand that there's 83 times that amount of money over here in this other account. So calm down. You know, it's

like, okay, okay, okay, I can breathe again. Had a little panic attack there and uh look at the facts. >> But that's that's normal. I mean, if if he did anything that looked like a gambling action, it would activate all

that pain in her. So any kind of scheme he comes up with, whether it's I'm going to do this real estate thing over here, I'm going to >> if it sounds like he's playing blackjack, you know, if it sounds like he's throwing the slots, if it sounds like he's playing craps in his the way he's handling his vernacular, he's not doing that, by the way. Everything he said to us was real sober, >> very his language, he had sobriety

language all over him. It was really good. But um yeah, that's what you're facing, guys, when you want to rebuild trust. By the way, great book on trust.

You're trying to rebuild trust. a lot of relationships working on that for different reasons. Henry Cloud's book called Trust uh how to regain trust, how to build trust, how to reclaim trust, all of those kinds of things. And it's excellent, excellent book on that [Music]

[Music]

Well, it's here.

I'm amazed at how I shouldn't be amazed.

It's It's always one of the prettiest products that we do. One of the best looking products we do. The 2026 Ramsey

Gold Planner is here. And uh this thing

is it's we always kind of just turn the creatives loose and let them play in the sandbox. And they do an incredible job building this thing out. It sells out every year. We only print 10 or 15,000 of them and they sell out really, really quickly. Um, it's an expensive item.

Usually our stuff is, you know, $20 books or so, $30 books or something.

This is like a $50 item, but we do the pre-sale on it starting right now. The 2026 gold planner 35.97

for a limited time. After Labor Day, it's going to go up. So, if you want it now, now this thing consists of each month starts with a devotional from either Rachel Cruz, Jade Washaw, or uh

John Deloney. Are you you're not in here, right? >> No, I don't think so. Okay. You can only fit so much in there. You don't want to cram it to be a 500page.

>> That's right. And you're you're kind of wordy that way. So, all right. So, then each month has a uh one has a two-page thing where it's open to the month and then after that each week has two pages

and you go through the week and then you start a new month with a new devotional and it and it helps you track every single thing in your daily goals. It is extremely welldesigned. This is many many years we've been doing this thing and it continues to be a huge seller.

So, if you have an interest, we'd love to have you. Again, grab the go ahead and grab your pre-sale before Labor Day because they're going to go way up. Uh, it is an expensive product for us to produce, as you can imagine. It's a beast. And, uh, it's not only gorgeous, but it's there's a lot to it. So, the Ramsay Gold Planner for 2026 on sale until Labor Day, 35.97. Click the link in the des in the description or go to ramseyolutions.comstore.

Devin is in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Devin. How are you?

I'm well. I'm well. Thank you.

>> Good. How can I help?

>> So, I have a kind of unique question

here. I work for a company and I've had

a lot of success and um you know, making a good income, but I want your opinion on what I should do about a vehicle. So, they are offering or you know, they offered me a vehicle that I essentially have to rent from them. Uh it's $300 a

month that they take of my paycheck. Uh

so I'm wondering should I go along with that and you know essentially lease this vehicle into perpetuity or should I buy

a vehicle?

>> You need the vehicle to do the job.

>> I do. Um so I I have two cars.

>> I'm in sales.

>> Okay. And so you're you have to have

like a van to sell the stuff out of or what are we saying?

>> No, no. You know, it's just a fair amount of driving and um you might have to go look at uh customers sites. It's it's businessto business sales.

>> Okay. But you don't that you don't have to have the car the the vehicle is not particularly equipped. It's just transportation to get to the job.

>> No. No. Right. Yeah. It's just a vehicle. >> You can drive anything. You can drive anything on it. You can drive anything.

>> It's a Toyota. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> will they give you the money regardless?

>> They're charging 300 bucks. >> They're charging him 300 bucks for the use of one of their vehicles.

>> This is a bad deal, man. They should be >> Wait, wait a minute. What all does it include?

>> Uh unlimited fuel. Um so, you know, I can drive it on vacation. My wife is allowed to drive it. Um you know, we can use it for for person like, you know, any kind of person. They're covering all They're covering all maintenance, tires, fuel, insurance, depreciation, everything.

>> Yes. >> And there's no boundaries like a normal lease would have, >> right? Yeah. There's no, you know, limited miles or anything.

>> That's all in writing. >> I can't drive it.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. That is a a benefit because it costs you more than 300 bucks a month to drive a car >> for insurance because they're covering insurance too as part of that 300 >> insurance, repairs, tires,

fuel, loss in value during putting miles on it. It's costing you a lot more than 300 bucks to drive. >> They're basically subsidizing it and charging you a portion. >> Yeah, >> they're losing money on this transaction.

>> No, listen to me. They're losing money on the transaction.

Yeah, is that it is a small car, right?

That's the only car that they offer. Um,

and you know, if I if I did buy my own vehicle, I'd get a slightly larger one for my family. Uh, you know, I've got a wife and two kids and one uh one that's due here at the end of the week.

>> But you you have a car for your family, right?

>> We do. We have a we have a paid off um

Ford Explorer. >> Yeah. It's all >> put your family in that >> miles on it. >> Or save up some money and buy a car for your family because you only need one car because you're getting one car from work. >> You said you had two cars right now, right?

>> I do. My other one is kind of a more of a farm use. It's a old 2004 Toyota Tacoma.

>> Okay. I mean, you could sell it and the Explorer and use the money piled up to get a better car for the family, right?

>> Farm use. Are you in farming? I >> only Um, just as a hobby. I have I have a few cows and pigs.

>> Okay. >> You probably need a pickup. Yeah. Okay.

All right. >> My only dilemma is that if if I decline

the car or if I turn the car back in, they will pay me 70 cents a mile up to

7200 miles a year. So that's, you know,

$5,000 a year. Um,

>> which is $400 a month.

plus that 300 that I would essentially

get back in my paycheck.

>> Oh, see? Yeah, that's true. So, there's a $700 swing.

>> Okay. Well, the way you do the calculation is this. All right. You you figure out what car you would drive and how many miles are you putting on it a year?

You know, >> uh with work and and personal alto together, I'd be putting probably close

to 18 18,000.

>> Okay. All right, that's not too much really. I mean, that's about average, actually. So, um, yeah. So, for 700

bucks a month, it how much value can you

lose in a car? Because whatever you buy is going down in value, right? So, how much is a buy $20,000 car in, you know,

in four years, it's going to be worth $10,000. So, we got to say, all right, two 25,500 bucks a year, 200 bucks a month in loss value. That that's about what you're going to have. Something like that. Okay? and you pay cash for the car, whatever it is, and it's the minimum car that will get the job done because you're, you know, a little bit bigger maybe, but other than that, it's just reliable. And then, can I buy insurance, repairs, tires, and gas

for the remaining 500 bucks a month? I don't know if you can or not.

Not sure you can. I'm not sure you're going to break even on this. So, um, uh,

but if it doesn't, you know, you're right. Hey, there's a $700 swing. So, how much I know you can't drive an expensive car, and I know you can't drive a car with debt.

The numbers don't work, >> right? >> Okay. So, whatever you drive, you have to pay cash for, and it's probably 10 to $20,000 car for the numbers to work. And

then you've got to run some numbers, do some calculations, and figure out what the repairs are, what the insurance is, and then divide it out and go 700 bucks a month. That's what I got to work with. 7,200 bucks a year. Can I operate this vehicle for that? I don't know if you can. I mean, with with 350, $4 gas. I

mean, I don't know if you can or not.

>> I started doing research on cars with the lowest insurance cost, cars with the lowest maintenance and start from there and see what they're actually going for >> and the lowest depreciation >> cuz you're just going to destroy this car. So, you don't want anything that's, you know, brand new that's going to go down in value. So, I'd get it used where someone else pay the depreciation and you can maintain it at a reasonable cost if you're going to go that route. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's the the $300 is not a

horrible deal. I can promise you that.

It's not a horrible deal. But if you want to buy something and and go the other route, take the mileage and save the 300. That gives you a $700 swing as you said, then um you know, you got to make the numbers work in 700. If the numbers come out to be a thousand, you're losing 300 bucks a month to drive

your own car rather than drive theirs because you want a little bit bigger car. Um, wouldn't do that. Wouldn't do that. That's like having a car payment. I'll pass. >> Yeah. I wouldn't combine your personal goals with this. Just see it as utility for work. What makes the most financial sense. >> Good point. Very good point.

[Music]

Our scripture of the day is Psalm 119:114.

You're my place of quiet retreat. I wait for your word to renew me. Ronald Reagan

said, "Peace is not the absence of conflict. It is the ability to handle conflict by peaceful means." Ooh, pretty

good there. I like that. Curtis is with us in Texas. Hi, Curtis. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes. I have a um question about my car.

I have a $26,000 Tesla and I wrecked it.

I didn't have insurance and the fix on it is $13,000.

I currently have $6,000 saved and I just

don't know what to do moving forward.

>> What does it take to repair the Tesla?

>> Uh $13,000. And I found another place

that said they could do it for $9,000 without fixing the uh front bumper. But the front bumper don't need to be repaired. What's Why did the front bumper need to be repaired at the other place?

>> I got uh cuz Tesla themselves, they don't uh they fix everything. They don't they can't just fix one problem.

>> Okay. So, they want to restore it.

>> You have a a body shop check it and you had Tesla dealership check it.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. So, you can fix it for 9K and you got 6K. Why were you not carrying insurance, Curtis?

>> Isn't that the law in Texas?

>> No. Not Not Not collision. Not collision. liability only.

>> Yes, I only had liability because at the time at the time I uh I make a decent amount of money, >> but at the time I had just got out of jail and I had to pay all that that stuff and I was just getting back on my

feet and I the insurance was the bill that I chose not to pay.

>> Ouch.

So, note to self, don't drive $26,000 car with no insurance.

That's >> when you're broke. >> Yeah, I understand that. >> Yeah. Okay. Because I mean obviously killed you, right? I mean, you buy a lot of insurance for this N grand.

>> So, uh, what do you make?

>> I make about $7,000 a month.

>> Okay. And how much was your insurance?

>> Uh, $450.

>> Okay.

All right. Was it a DUI you were in for?

No. Uh, it was a drug charge I was went

to jail for. >> Okay. So, that that didn't affect your insurance then. That's what I was asking. All right. Um, >> I know. >> Okay.

All right. So, your question is whether to fix the car or not.

>> Yeah. I don't know what to do. I was thinking about um just going to buy a cash car and sending that car back, but I don't know how that works, that process work at all. >> No, that's called that's called repossession. No, we don't want to do that. What do you owe on the Tesla?

>> Um, about 24,000.

>> Okay. All right. No, you need to fix it, hun. Um, and you're going to scratch up the other $3,000 to do it because you don't have the money right now. Is it drivable?

>> No, it's not drivable.

>> What are you driving?

>> I'm driving a rental car.

>> When'd you wreck it?

>> I wrecked it about two months ago. So, I've been in and around for about two months. >> Wow, that's expensive. >> And how long is it going to take to repair it? Because I've I've heard some stories about Teslas taking a long time to get fixed up.

>> They said they said about four weeks.

>> Okay. >> So, even when can you start the repair now and pay it in four weeks?

>> Yes. >> Mean, would you have the other $3,000 to go with your $6,000 so you had nine in four weeks?

>> Yes. I have I have enough that I don't know if I do take cuz I get paid monthly

for my VA check. I get a housing lounge and also work and if I take my VA check

to add on to it, that would leave some bills not paid. >> No, you got to pay all your bills first.

>> Yeah. >> But can you scratch up 3,000 out of the seven you make in the next 30 days?

>> I think I could.

>> Okay. I would make it my life mission to do so and start the repair now. >> Well, don't start the repair until you know you're going to have the money. Okay? >> Okay? >> Because you can't you can't then you got a car sitting over there. You can't pay the bill that you promised to pay. We don't want to create another problem.

All right? So, um I want you to have the your hands almost on the $3,000. You need $9,000 in your account or very close to being in your account before you start the repair. And then you need to start the repair as soon as possible and then get the repair done. and then get the Tesla sold.

>> Okay. So, fix it and then sell the car.

>> Yeah. Because that gets you out of it.

You can't get out of it right now. You're stuck.

>> Now, if you didn't fix the front front bumper, what do you think he sell for?

>> That's nine. He can fix it for nine.

>> He won't get the front bumper fixed for nine. >> Yes. No, he said 13 if he takes it to Tesla, nine without the bumper at the other place. So, nine fixes it and you got six in the bank, right?

>> Yes. That's what bumper not really that that much damage. Only reason they know is that the bumper the front bumper was hit at ours cuz Tesla got the candle fixed. >> Okay. I'm just making sure it's not going to decrease the value when you go to sell it. >> No, you got to get it sold for 24 so you can get out of it at the end of the story and get your life back. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And then never drive a car without insurance again. When you're broke, it makes you broker. So everything compounds then and you get in a bigger mess and a bigger mess. Mary's in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi Mary. How are you? >> I'm doing great, Dave. Thanks for for talking with me today. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Pretty big life decision in my mind that

I'm hoping to get your input on. I had

the opportunity to go from a

self-employed government contractor to a

full-time employee with the lead agency that that um the grant that I work for

is supporting. >> Mhm. And the the big thing that I think

is keeping me on the fence is my age. Um

I'm 59.

We are on baby step five. Ideally plan

to have the house paid off in the next four years. >> Good. >> Yes. Thank you. Um thanks to you all.

>> What are you making as a contractor?

So my gross is 87 right now annually

which includes a 30%

fringe. So that is built into that 87

for me to self incorporate, pay my own

taxes, my own insurance, all of that.

>> Okay. So 87 minus you pay your own expenses. >> Correct. >> Okay. Gotcha. And so the uh full-time

gig that's not contract, what are they offering?

So 30% less than that. So it's b my

gross would be 60 63 and change.

>> Okay. And are you you're not you're not coming out of pocket for that much.

>> I I'm sorry, Dave. >> Okay. You're not your fringe is not costing you that.

>> 30,000 bucks. 20 20 $24,000.

You're buying your what? your own lot your own health insurance, right?

>> My own health insurance. I am self-funding my own retirement, so I'm

putting 20%

about 18,000 a year. >> You're going to be doing that anyway.

>> I think 15 I can do at the new at the

new gig. >> They're going to match. They're going to give you some match there, but they're not doing it for you.

>> Correct. >> So, you uh retirement you got to do

anyway. It's it's a that's not you're not saving that. That's not a fringe you're saving. So what's the health insurance cost?

>> So for employee only, they pick that up.

>> No, no, honey. I mean your current current cost >> right now it's 600 a month.

>> Okay. So you're not on your husband's plan?

>> No, he is retired on Medicare.

>> Okay. So 600 a month. So seven grand.

All right. And the um what else is the

fringe? half your tax on it is 765 tax

because you got self-employment tax versus they're covering the W2 tax, right? >> That's right. >> Yeah. So 7% would be another 7K.

That's 14. All right. Uh what else?

>> I think the big thing is frustration

right now with the whole marketplace.

>> Well, I mean it's 10 it's a $10,000 pay cut. It is. >> That's a lot of frustration >> and you are right and that's why I'm I'm wanting somebody to kind of walk me through this. >> Yeah, I think >> math says stay. >> Yeah, ma math says stay on contract. Um,

you know, unless you think that the risk is so high with the frustrating marketplace that it's not that it's not going to be there anyway. So then we're not comparing apples to apples anymore.

So, um, I'm a big self-employed guy.

Sorry. I'm always going to lean that way unless there's a math reason not to.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 9. A Written Plan Will Always Keep You On Track | October 9, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union

studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Ken

Coleman. Thrilled to be alongside my buddy George Camel.88255225

is the phone number.88255225.

[Music] We'd love to hear from you. We're going to have some fun today. George has got his favorite denim jacket on and that tells me he's ready or >> not fooling around today. >> No. Uh cuz when you get up in the morning and decide this is the jacket, I always know you're bringing it. >> Yeah. I am impervious to criticism when I'm wearing this denim jacket. >> Very exciting. Anderson starts us off in Atlanta, Georgia. Anderson, how can we help?

>> Good afternoon, Ken. Good afternoon, George. So, my question, thank you again for taking my call. My question is, I'm currently on baby step two of the

and my partner and I are on our collections on our debt collections, and we currently have three credit card collections that are seven months old.

one that's 3,200, another one that's

3,800, and then the last one is uh roughly

3750.

And we're trying to we're not really sure how to deal with collectors. This is our first time doing this, so I'm not really sure what's the best way to approach them. Should I settle in full

or should I pay them all the um all in full or should I just settle?

And I also have I also owe the IRS 4,200

and I was I was thinking of stopping the

oring the death snowball and knocking that out first before I go in go into collections. So what's the best way to approach those things?

>> Well, I'm glad you know your numbers. It sounds like life was chaotic for a little while there. What happened that got you guys to miss all the payments and and going to collections and missing the tax bill? What happened?

Yeah. So last year we we were just

fooling around going just traveling and uh really looking over our money and

after traveling we just we couldn't pay the credit cards. We we funded all the traveling with the credit cards, all the

expenses, uh going out, everything,

groceries. We funded it with the credit cards and after a couple of months we couldn't pay it. And then we just let it let it ride until we couldn't pay anymore. And then this month they sent

us a mail saying that we owe them this

amount which is 3,200 for my lady. And

then they they sent me two mails saying that I owe them those amounts. Also, last year, uh, I was working at a 1099

where at a construction company, and this year the the bill came through that I owe the IRS 4,200 >> because you weren't setting aside money for taxes. >> Exactly. Exactly. I was just spending it because I didn't really know how to how to manage that money because it was just I didn't know I had to set aside 25%

until the year ended and I'm like, "Oh, shoot." And that's that's just what happened. And now I don't have 4,200. So I'm trying to knock it out. >> Yeah. Well, you're right. The IRS debt is going to come first.

>> Okay. >> So, I would just, you know, if it's in collections, there's no payments. Just leave it. You haven't been paying it anyways. Let's leave that alone and just stack up that 4,200 bucks to get Uncle Sam off our back ASAP. How quickly can you do that? If you do nothing else, you and your partner, you're not doing anything except keeping the lights on and paying the IRS.

We will probably we'll probably knock it out this Friday once we get paid.

>> Amazing. Okay, good. Then once all that's done, you can start talking to the to collection agencies and you can try to settle. Now, here's the thing.

I'm a fan of having integrity and going, I signed on the dotted line. I went 3,200 bucks into debt to go on this trip. I'm going to pay the 3,200 bucks.

If the debt is old enough and they're willing to settle, you might shave off some some money there, but 7 months is not an incredibly amount uh long amount of time. So, you're probably on the hook for what you owe.

>> Okay? >> In that case, I'd start not, you know, be honest with them. Call them and say, "Hey, listen. I don't have the money now. Here's what I can do, and here's when I will have the money. Are you willing to settle in full for, say, $3,000?" And never give them access to your checking account.

>> Okay? >> So, you can do like a money order, a cashier check, but don't just give them direct access to your account because they will take the money.

>> All right? >> That's all you got to do, man. It's not fun. Uh, and part of it is just being in denial about it. So, just start tackling them. Get the IRS one knocked out and then you can kind of debt snowball the collections as they go and see who's willing to settle. And again, your goal for the next 6 to 12 months is just knocking out these debts and then getting your emergency fund in place and never doing any of this again.

>> Thanks for the call, Anderson. Let's go to Sam in Casper, Wyoming. Sam, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. I'm a big fan. >> Thank you. What's going on?

Yeah. So, I'm uh going to buy a truck now and I'm sort of uh stuck between a

rock and a hard place trying to decide how much to spend. Um you know, I'm a

I'm a fisherman. I I make good money and I've done a good job saving. Um but I'm trying to figure out, you know, between spending uh 3540,000 on a truck or, you

know, something a little older, something with a little bit more miles, you know, 20,000.

>> What's your income?

So, as a as a fisherman, it's variable, which is kind of making it a little bit hard for me. >> You're a full-time fisherman.

>> Yes. >> Okay. In Wyoming, >> typically.

>> No. Uh, that's where I spend my shoulder season. So, >> I had to ask. I I had to ask. Okay.

Well, give us give us how long have you been a fisherman? Uh, and and then what have you made kind of on average so that we can pin down a number because that's going to dictate our answer.

>> Yeah. So, uh, on average, I've been a

fisherman about five years now. Okay.

And of course, it's it's a a boom and bust industry, but typically in the close to $100,000 range. Um, of course, self-employed, so you've got all those taxes to deal with, but >> All right, George, tell him about our for All right, so we've got a formula.

George, walk me through this.

>> So, the the goal here is we're going to pay cash and we're going to make sure that everything in our life with wheels and motors doesn't add up to more than half our annual income. So, is this the only thing in your life or are there other I mean, you've got a boat involved now. That's more for business. >> Uh, yes. So, I'm actually not the owner.

I'm I'm just a hand on on deck.

>> Okay. So, you don't own a boat. You just So, what do you need the truck for? >> No. >> If you're not hauling, >> I've got no other >> Yeah, I've got no other uh debts. Um, so I need a truck. Uh, really? Cuz I, as I'm thinking through this, I'm sort of at the tail end of my uh career in that,

you know, fishing becomes a hard job to do. uh as you as you get older. Um and and as I'm sort of planning through my next life steps, I'm I'm thinking something you know along the lines of uh

you know contracting or building or or it seems like everything >> Sure. So what's the timeline for making that transition?

>> Uh I would say definitely within the next by the time I'm 30.

>> How old are you now?

>> I'm 27. >> Okay. You're already on the cusp of retirement. Well, from fishing >> is it? I mean, >> no. No. See, you be careful, George.

You're gonna get in trouble. You've not watched all these shows that I've watched, all these fishing shows. I watch these shows >> and it's hard work. >> Let me refra Sorry, let me rephrase. Uh, not retirement by any means. Uh, retirement from fishing.

>> Yeah. No, I got it. I'm I'm tracking with you. We don't have a lot of time left. So, so real quick, um, what are you driving now? Give me the 10-second answer. >> That's it. I I I just sold our truck, so nothing. I don't have a vehicle.

Okay. How much money do you have?

>> Yeah. Uh I've I've been able to save uh

you know uh I guess like $35,000 in

cash. >> Does that include your emergency fund?

>> Yes, included. >> Okay. We got to separate those two out.

Let's get the emergency fund. Then anything above and beyond that becomes the car fund money. >> What's the number, George? I'd like to see them in the 25 or less range.

>> Let's wait until you know what you actually need. So, right now I get a used older truck. Probably 20K. I was going to say the same. We don't need a truck for a business that doesn't exist for three more years. A car though, we need [Music]

>> If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing because normal is broke. And I want you to be weird. That's why I love what we're doing with Fair Winds Credit Union. Our friends at Fairwinds just

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[Music]

Jane is up in Phoenix, Arizona. Jane, how can we help today?

>> Well, um, thank you so much for taking

my call. Sure. And I have a little difference with my husband over budgeting. Okay. and um he his idea of

budgeting now we are both he's 73 I'm 66

we're debtree we have a little bit of savings and we have some money invested but I feel like we need to be on a dollar for dollar you know every dollar where it's spent budget to get us through these retirement years that are coming up because we're not really set financially to travel and do the things that I was hoping we could do in retirement and my husband's idea of a budget is um that you spend less than

you make. >> Yeah. >> And I wrote you guys about that because I wanted an answer and you know that's where we are. We are debtree. I appreciate that he doesn't spend. I mean neither one of us spend a lot but there's always a lot of tension over what's spent because we don't really know what's going out and I just >> it's a lack of clarity.

>> Yeah. And he listens to your radio show.

He's the one that says we got to be debtree. we got to have this much money put away. We got to do this before we can retire. This is what Dave Ramsey says. So, I reached out because you're someone he listens to and >> Well, but but when Yeah. And I appreciate that. And I guess he's listening. Is he in the room with you?

>> No. Oh, >> we did we did set it up so he could be, but he is in his office doing something else. >> That's convenient. That is convenient.

you know, be before we dive in, I I just

want to know what his response is given

the setup you just gave us that he that he talks about us. He, you know, he's like, "Hey, let's get debt free." So, he's he's on board with a good bit of it. So, when you say, "I feel tension.

Um, I feel we need to go dollar for dollar." What is his response?

>> He gets extremely uh I don't want to say

volatile, but yeah. I mean, he gets very very angry with me because I won't say that spending less than what you make is

uh a budget. >> Are you guys been married? >> What is a budget? >> Yeah. How long you guys 28 years.

>> 28 years. >> 28 years. >> Okay. Uh and the reason I asked that is what's your best guess >> as to why he doesn't want to do it that

way. He to the point that he gets agitated. What do you think is behind that? You know him better than anybody.

I so a little backstory. Um this is a

second marriage for both of us and Bruce lost his first wife to cancer >> and he thought he had saved up the money and they had a plan and it was and it was all devastated. I on the other and the reason I'm pushing for the budget is because as a single mom and I was this school teacher um I it was it was um

Larry Briquette back then who was shared with me how to set up a budget.

I'm not sure you do either. Uh I appreciate that information, but there's something emotional for him >> around the idea of sitting down >> and going through the specifics, the details.

Um and and I'll give some insight because I hate that. Uh it's just something about my spirit. I feel like I'm a wild mustang.

Uh and and and I just how I have always been. I don't like anybody telling me what to do. I just really don't. And and

I've had to fight that. And but also to learn about it. And so he's got to get to a place where he realizes, oh, this is why I don't like it. And it doesn't

excuse it, but it does get him to a place where he goes, I still have to do it anyway. In other words, I don't like going to the dentist, but I got to go do it to keep these pearly whites healthy. All right. So, there's just there's a tradeoff on some of these things, but I'm going to make a suggestion, George, and I want to bring you in here on this, and I I don't know what you think about this, but based on the fact that they've been married 28 years, they're very frugal.

They do live unless they make, they got no debt, and he just has an aversion.

If you're Jane, you're very aware of the finances, right? You have full picture of it. >> Yes. Yes. I'm going to suggest that you put together a budget for him. Now, I'm

not saying that's the long-term play, but I think initially, George, I'd like to see Jane come to him and go, "Hey, I know that this creates tension for you.

I'd love to know more why, and I don't want to do that, but this is for us." And so I've attempted to do a budget and I'm trying to take all the yucky icky out of it and go here's my first pass

and and present it to him and see how he does with that because it may just be the idea of sitting down talking it out,

hashing it out and maybe he's an editor.

>> What do you think on this? >> Well, we always say one person's going to make the budget, the other person's job is to mess with it and screw it up.

You know what I mean? That's that's how you create some teamwork. There needs to be some give and take here. And so I do think showing him a budget that reflects reality that says, "Hey, listen. You're going to have fun if that's his hold up is that we're not going to have any fun if we're on a budget." Put the fun money in there for him to where he gets to spend his 500 bucks a month, whatever it is. And that way he realizes that the budget is really permission to spend.

And I think right now he just sees the budget as well, as long as there's money left over in the bank, we're doing okay.

And yet you both go, "Well, the trip feels frivolous." Well, how do we know it feels frivolous? unless it's in the budget, right?

>> And then also, have you have have you really dug in like Ken mentioned to go, what's behind all this? Is it because of baggage from the past? Is it triggering a difficult time for him?

>> That's what I Yeah. And that's the part I really don't know. He's very private.

>> What is your household income?

>> Uh, it's about 120.

>> Okay. And that's all retirement, nest egg, social security.

Well, that's his I'm still working. He's on social security. I still work.

>> Okay. And are you wanting to stop working?

>> Well, no. I have a dream job. I'm a principal of a private school. That's amazing. Great. With 45 kids.

>> Come on. That's great, Jane. It's It's I

mean, my plan has always been to work till I was 70 because I know my social security will be higher then, and that was kind of what I we were banking on.

um he has worked up until just recently.

So he was also working and at that point I mean in the last two years we've probably put like 30 to $40,000 in our

savings. Now we've spent but then we were able to generate that much savings because we don't have any expenses.

>> Jane, I got to tell you I I appreciate you calling. I don't think this is a crisis but I do think that the concern that you have is legit. But I will also tell you the reason he's not wanting to do this is some type of a fear. I guarantee it. Yeah. And I don't know that it's a massive fear, but I can't put my finger on I can tell you this. If I talked to you for five minutes, I could absolutely tell you what it is. I really could uh because it's a fear.

>> Well, he just walked out of his office.

You want to talk to him? >> He finished his sedoku puzzle. He's ready to talk to us. >> No, he was talking to somebody.

>> I think this would be good if we can get him. We We We may have to hold you. We'll put you on hold here and get this set up. But if he's willing and and here's the thing. I want to make sure you know this. He needs to feel safe.

This is not an attack, >> not a gotcha. >> And he needs to know that I'm like him when it comes to budgeting and the process. I don't enjoy it, but if he'll allow me, I think we can dig in and find out what he's afraid of and what causes the emotion. And I think it's going to help you guys. >> I think it's going to unlock something in your marriage and for your future retirement. >> Is he willing to do this? Because I know we're catching him off guard.

>> Well, he just heard you say the word afraid and he made a funny face. I don't know. Would you be willing to talk with them? >> Oh. About what?

>> About our budgeting and >> I love him already. >> Great. Poor guy. We're catching him right in the hallway.

>> As long as they realize I guess I'm blindsided. I don't >> No, he's not blindsided. This is going to be fun and positive. >> Yeah. Please stay on the line. We want to deal. >> We We'll put it put you guys on hold, okay? And you guys discuss it and Christian will verify this. But this is not a gotcha moment. We are for him.

This is not an attack. Uh, but I think we can uncover as a guy who doesn't like this. Uh, and I'll tell you what my fear is going into this. My fear that has always made me resistant to the sitdown part is I don't want to disappoint my wife. I am a recovering people pleaser.

>> Oo. And uh, so there it is. I'm leading

folks. This is not a gotcha thing. We see if we can get a little breakthrough for this couple. Uh, and if not, we'll move on. >> If not, it was entertaining. All right.

So, we're talking. We'll figure it out.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right. So, uh, we're going to go to Jane and Bruce now. We're going back to Jane. She's got Bruce and we're on Bruce's team. Bruce, are you there?

>> Yes, sir. >> Man, I want to tell you something. Thank you for doing this. This is People are going to love this. Number one, it's going to help some dudes. Two, I'm on I am normally like you for years. I hated the budgeting process and uh I just

didn't want to do it. So Jane called us and you know what she talked to us about. So I wanted to ask you a real quick question as we know you're waiting on a service call at your house. Don't want to miss that. Um what do you think

creates tension for you? What what do you think's behind I have a fear behind mine and it's a fear of disappointing Stacy not being enough. If if the budget doesn't turn out the way I want to we can't do. So, I have always avoided it.

Okay. Now, I don't anymore, but that was my story. And I'm trying to make you feel safe because your wife really wants to go through the budgeting process. We encouraged her to put a budget together and let you just be the editor. You don't have to sit there and construct it, but not we just wanted to know because I think it'll help you and her.

Do you have a sense of why it's a

negative emotion for you when when the idea is discussed? What do you think it is?

I don't have any uh negative

uh feeling on uh a budget. I budget in

my head so far. I don't see any problem

that has risen of not having a budget.

>> Okay. Yeah, you guys have done well.

Now, to be fully transparent, Jane told us that when she brings it up that you get upset.

Well, I mean, if she wants to have a

budget, let her have a budget. I mean, the only thing I would say, uh,

you can't like yesterday our car went

down and it cost $1,000 to get it

repaired. So, where in the budget, you

know, was that?

>> Well, that's that's in the emergency fund, right? >> I know. If it's and we have $10,000

emergency fund, if we don't need

or we need more, our roof is uh going to

be needing replaced. That's $20,000.

So, we go to our next one, which has I

think 2020,000 in it, and we take out

$20,000.

Um, >> so you're talking in terms of emergencies right now, but what about everyday spending? What about the fun stuff, the vacation? She wants to buy a $1,000 purse. Are you going to, you know, raise some eyebrows at that?

>> Oh, I as long as it's uh uh we're paying

for it, there's no problem with it. If you start taking out a savings, then I

have a question about that. Does it?

When you take out a savings, it needs to

be something that is above and beyond

our needs. >> Right. >> And is a $1,000 purse um a need or a

want? If it's a want.

>> Well, you said earlier, Bruce, you said, "Well, the budget's in my head." Right?

You said, "The budget's in my head. What's the problem?" >> And I'm going, "Well, Jane can't read your mind. I feel like the picture of the budget in your head versus what's in her head are two vastly different things and there's invisible tension there.

>> Okay. Maybe she has tension. I don't know. >> There you go. >> I haven't. >> So, you're okay. You're okay if she brings you a very detailed budget and says, "This is my first pass at it." And you're okay looking at it going, "Uh, I don't think we need to put this over here. I would say it over here." you're okay going through it line by line,

dollar for dollar, if she puts the first draft together.

>> Um, I don't know. If I've got time, I guess

I could >> I thought you were tired, Bruce.

>> No, I'm tired.

>> Oh, you're just tired. >> I'm not He has time. He's just exhausted. Yeah, >> I still have work to do. Um,

>> you don't have five minutes though to look over her budget that she worked really hard on.

>> Um, I looked over it uh maybe 20 20

years ago. >> Okay. All right. We got a 20-y old budget. All right. >> If she wants to budget the expense for vacations, let her budget it. >> All right. Jane, are you still with us?

Are you listening to all this? Jane, >> do we have Jane on the line as well?

>> Yeah, Jane is here.

>> Okay. What do you think about everything he just said?

>> Well, I think that what he's saying and what y'all are hearing and what he's meaning are like different things.

>> It's a game of telephone while we're on the telephone.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, the reality is I hear

I don't know that Bruce necessarily

understands like here was my take when we had when I had a budget way back when forever ago.

You put aside, let's say, $10 a month

for vacate for fun. Okay, you might not spend it this month. That that means then you bank it in and now the next month you have like $20, right? But then the third month you might need something that's $30. Well, because you didn't spend those first two, you have it. So that at the end of the year, you end up balanced all the way across. So that is

my idea of a budget. So that would mean like the car he's talking about that was an emergency but we would have had an automotive piece going out >> a sinking fund for you know vehicle maintenance and repairs to where you didn't even need to touch the emergency fund. >> Exactly. So we wouldn't have touched that all year but then woo October we need that money and boom that money goes in. So I think in a way that's what he's

calling a a savings which it is but it's

not budgeted that way. So, it's this

unknown. So, then when I do say, "Hey, I'd like to go on this vacation." Well, what are we going to give up in order to do that? Because at that moment, he wants it all to be balanced. And it's it's not because >> So, you're wanting to plan ahead.

And he goes, "Well, it either comes out of our emergency fund savings or it's not going to happen." >> Okay. >> Right.

there's a vacation. >> You want some more labels on this and he's going, "Well, it's just all in my head and we'll figure it out." And if it's in savings, that's great. And to his credit, >> I forgot to go. >> Oh, service calls there. Okay.

>> Service call. All right. Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

>> You're a good man. >> You're a good man. >> Work down the road. Thank you.

>> Work with her. Byebye. He's got to go see the Rotorooer guys. >> That was fun. >> Uh, you don't want that to not happen.

You got to make that priority. I get it.

Like Bruce, there's Bruce is a man of priorities. >> Bruce is paying everyone in the neighborhood. He's got the car repair guy, the service call guy. I get why he's stressed. >> Jane, we're with you. So, here's the deal. I think having talked to Bruce.

Thanks for doing that, by the way. Jane, you still with us? >> Yeah. >> Okay, this is great. So my my insight in

listening to Bruce is Bruce is a man of his ways and nobody else's ways are going to get adopted and he's at this point 73

and like >> can we be honest and I love Bruce and I'm honoring Bruce, but there's not a lot of change in Bruce's life that's going to happen. >> All right, >> you're right. >> I know >> he's not going to go start yoga tomorrow. >> Like and I love Bruce. Like I would love to just throw lots of topics at Bruce. I think Bruce would be a great podcast guest. I think he's I think he's got a lot of salt and vinegar in him. >> He is the Clint Eastwood of budgeting.

>> He really is. So So you're going to have to lead the horse to water. You you remember that old phrase, you're an educator. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think >> absolutely. >> Uh what we already said you got. But I would go this route. I would pick one major item that's causing you stress and I think it's the vacations, the trips.

>> Yep. >> And I think I think they're okay. Great.

I think you got to go. I We want to go to uh Bora Bora and it's going to cost

us 15 grand. I'm making this up. All right. >> So, you lay all of those powers of

influence and persuasion that only a wife has on Bruce and you say, "Bruce,

you went on the show. You told George and Ken, uh, she can budget if she wants to." That's what he said. I'm only business. And so, you know what? You start pulling money aside. You do the line by line. stick it in front of him and make him edit it. If he doesn't edit it, then by by osmosis he approves it

>> and you start putting 500 bucks, a,000 bucks, whatever you want to a month away to Bora Bora. And I think we lead Bruce to water at which point Bruce drinks.

But to explain to Bruce why we should go to water, why we should have a cool drink, Bruce isn't having it. He's never going to have it. >> He's too tired and he just doesn't care.

He's tired and he's got to take care of the service. Guys, >> you have to care on behalf of Bruce, Jane. That's the truth. >> You got to care. We love Bruce, >> but Bruce is Bruce and you're amazing, Jane. Thank you for that. I think that helped a lot of couples. >> Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

>> All right. I hope the air filters and everything get changed. Uh, you know, the sprinklers. I mean, Bruce is on it.

We got to get some stability in this house.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, folks. As you know, uh, the Fed just cut rates for the first time all year, and the 15-year fixed mortgage rates have dropped to the lowest we've seen in 11 months. So, if you're financially ready, now's a great time to buy or sell. And I can tell you this, if and rates are kind of popping around, so depending when you hear this, you know, obviously things change. But I will tell you this, here's why this is a great time to buy if you're prepared. Because if mortgage rates do drop, demand is

going to increase. people are going to get off the sidelines and that's going to drive prices back up. So, while mortgage rates, if you look at the last five years, are higher than they were, they were at all-time lows and you're sitting there going, I'm just hoping, I'm praying to the mortgage rate fairy.

It ain't happening. All right? Because as mortgage rates drop, you're going to see housing prices go up. So, the point here is sitting on the sideline if you're ready, is not a great move. Um, and you're going to need to have a pro, a Ramsay trusted real estate agent on your team buying and selling a house, major transaction, maybe the biggest financial transaction most people ever make. And so, you want to make sure that you got a pro walking you through it.

You can find one for free at ramseysolutions.com/agents.

Ramseysolutions.comagents.

And by the way, if you uh not sure how you're doing on the baby steps, we also have a quick quiz called, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" Takes just a few minutes. You'll get a a personalized plan uh so that uh you know where you are and can keep that momentum that's in the show notes. Just click on the link. Are you on track with the baby steps? Emily

is up in Dallas, Texas. Emily, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um honored to speak to y'all. Um, my

question is about I know interest rates just dropped and are possibly expected to drop again soon. I'm curious. Um, I

would like to we would like to refinance to a 15-year mortgage. Um, but if rates

don't drop below what we currently have, 5.75, would it make sense to recast at least

and just be paying less in interest? Um because we've put down an additional about 30 grand on our principal in the past couple of years.

>> Way to go. And so you currently have a 5.75% rate on a 30-year.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Have you actually gotten a quote yet to see what it would be to get a 15-year? >> No, I haven't. Okay. Um I played around on calculators online.

>> Yeah. And they can help if you contact our friends at Church Hill Mortgage. they can run the numbers for you and show you what's called a break even analysis to show you how long it will take you uh for this to make sense.

>> Okay? >> You know, they might say, "Hey, you'll get a 5% but it's going to cost you this to refinance. So, a year from now or two years from now, you will break even and then be it will begin to make sense." And the recast isn't going to do anything except lower your payment. It's going to keep the loan length and the terms, the interest rate.

Mhm. >> So the way the recast would work is you make that a big, you know, lump sum payment, they lower your payment down.

>> But if you're following the Ramsey plan, you're knocking this mortgage out. It doesn't matter if it lowers at 500, but you're throwing 500 extra versus a $1,000 payment, the same amount is going to principal.

>> Okay. >> So what is your goal right now? Just to lower the payment or pay it off faster?

>> Uh both. Um yeah, we're newly in steps

four, five, and six. And so I just stare at that mortgage payment all the time and it just makes me mad how high the interest is versus principal >> what's left on it. >> Just figuring out >> 368.

>> Okay. And are you guys in 456 where you're tackling the mortgage throwing extra at it? >> Yeah. Yes.

>> Okay. And what how what's your track right now to pay it off early?

>> Um I haven't really looked into that much. I kind of I know I did something wrong. I was paying extra on the principal while we were in baby step two

>> um still um just because I hate how high

it is. But um now we're fully in 456 and

just started contributing 15% and

>> um so we've been paying I've been paying

1,500 extra a month towards principal

and we are three years into the mortgage. >> Okay. I'm so proud of you guys. You're making great progress. >> Yeah. Yeah, the refinance can start to begin to make sense as these rates drop.

And so I would just get in touch with our friends at Church Hill Mortgage and uh see what the rates are currently at on the 15-year. It's going to be lower than the 30-year in general. But again, based on the timing, uh who knows? But hopefully if you can save at least a percent or more, I think the break even will start to look a lot better.

So best of luck to you. >> All right, real quick. Imagine a whiteboard here, George, behind us. This is what I wish we had right here in the studio.

Get a whiteboard out. >> You love a whiteboard. >> I do love a whiteboard. Love a quick lesson.

I want to make sure people understand this.

not mean that your mortgage rate moves with it. All right? So, mortgage rates, people who set the mortgage rates tend to follow the 10-year treasuries. So,

the yield, whatever the yield is on a 10-year Treasury, on our 10-year Treasury, is what you're going to see rates move. So, as of today, the yield

is flat. So, you're going to see mortgage rates probably hold pretty steady to where they are. So, I just wanted to I want you to speak to that. I I want people to make sure that >> when you see all the news, Jerome Pow and the Feds meeting, everybody's paying attention that does not have a direct I

mean >> it can somehow it does it's related but it is not directly related to keep there's generally a delay. They're not going to happen tomorrow. It might be 30 days 60 days out. And it's important to also know a 15-year and 30-year mortgages, they also fall into different buckets. That's correct. In the industry, 15 years are seen as more of a short-term. Yeah. Versus 30 years are more long-term. And so, it follows different treasury yields. That's right.

So, you'll see that just because the 30-year rates move doesn't mean the 15s are going to move with it. >> That is correct. >> That's important to note, too. But I wanted to just crunch some numbers.

Oh, I like it. >> This will be fun. Like, they said their home value, she said they have 368,000 left. Is that right?

So, we're going to just crunch some numbers here to show you uh what that would be like. You know, let's see if we got the down payment. All right. So, 15-year fixed with a rate of 5 a.5, you're looking at $3,900 bucks for a monthly payment.

But if rates go down to, let's say, 4.5%, it's 3,700 bucks. So, it's about $200 in savings a month with a rate change like that.

that plus interest, you could save a lot of money over the length of that loan.

But again, if you're following the Ramsey plan, you're attacking that mortgage with a vengeance, you're not going to get hit with as much interest.

You know, when I paid off my mortgage, instead of paying six figures in interest over the course of even that 15-year loan, we paid less than 10,000 because of us aggressively attacking it.

>> Yeah. So, okay. So, play that out. So, when people try to play that mathematics game, well, I'm I'm not paying as much interest, uh, but I'm also forking out a lot of cash. I'm playing devil's advocate here because I know you can handle that. But I mean, let's play that out. What what what's the response to that argument? >> Well, generally the thinking is, well, I have a low interest on my mortgage.

Therefore, I'm going to keep my cash invested. >> Right. >> Now, the chances of you having the mortgage payoff amount sitting in a savings account, slim to none.

>> Right. >> So, those people don't have that narrative. >> Exactly. The Now, go look at the amount you're actually paying in interest on what's called the amortization schedule, >> and you'll see that most of it is going towards interest in the beginning part of your loan.

What's beautiful about the 15-year loan is that a lot more goes to principal a whole lot faster. So, you're making way more progress way faster when you do the 15-year uh fixed rate mortgage. So, that's a beauty of it. And plus, when you think about a 30-year loan, it's double the time, which means you're paying double the interest except a little bit more because generally 30-year interest rates are going to be higher than the 15.

>> So, a lot of nerdery there. >> I love it. Trivia question for you related to this topic. Uh >> oh.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Question and then I'm going to make a statement. question is, what do you think the new average age in America is for a first-time home buyer?

What do you think it is?

>> It is 38. >> Wow. >> 38 years of age. Now, before we go doom and gloom, I was thinking about this. I heard this this morning. This is fresh.

It's fresh. >> I can tell. >> Like the hot now sign of Crispy Cream. I mean, I heard it this morning. I love fresh data. I'm sitting there listening to this in my car and I go, "You know what, Ramsay? Our new crusade ought to be just if we could abolish anything, it would be student loans.

>> Because I got to believe that student loans are, if not the primary factor, a major factor as to why we're seeing that age of the first-time home buyer jump up. Do you agree or disagree? >> 100%. Think about this.

>> Oh boy. So, I think the reason we're delayed, yes, the housing market, yes, the economy, but also crippling debt.

>> That's what I think. >> Larely due to student loans. >> This is why I would get rid of the federal student loan program, private schools. I would abolish it all together. I would actually make the universities raise their own money to pay for tuition. >> Let's go. >> Oh, boy. I'd change America, folks.

>> I think we see a big price drop when the government isn't backing. >> Lots of good things would happen.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Congress ticket. Coleman Campbell 26.

Who would vote?

It's better than most options at this point. We'll win.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman.

So excited to have you with us. Let's go to Katherine who's joining us in Milwaukee. Katherine, how can we help?

>> Yes, good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my call. It's an honor to talk with you. Um, my husband and I are

big fans, so he listens to your show every day. Um, I'm calling to ask a

question about whether or not it if my

husband can um quit his second job. Um,

we make a total of 118,000 a year. I

work very part-time as a nurse, like a couple shifts a month. Um, he works a

full-time job as a he just got promoted as a supervisor at a factory and then a

a credit credit analyst at a local bank.

Um, and we're just he doesn't have a very good work work life balance and it's very taxing on me and we have a 2-year-old daughter and um just trying

to figure out a good balance to see if

if we can if he can um

quit the quit the job as an a credit analyst to just have a better work life balance. >> So give us the breakdown how much so how much is he making at each job? Sure. So,

at the uh supervisor job, he makes 87,000.

Um at the credit analyst position, it's 265.

>> And how many hours a week is he at the credit analysis or whatever that is?

>> Yeah. Um 20 hours

>> in addition to the 40 he's working on the other deal.

>> Yes. >> Is it hourly rate?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So what happens tactically if he

walks away from the second job making 26 grand over a course of a year

>> practically. So yeah um we spent we uh

spend about our total um spending that

we spend is about 4,500 or yeah 4,500 a month. We are renting.

We're saving for a house. Um, and if he

would just uh work as a supervisor, it'd be about 5,000 a month um

>> coming in. >> So, yeah, 5,000 a month coming in.

>> So, I mean, that's that's a pretty big hit to you guys. I mean, obviously just the 26,000 alone is is over two grand a month. And he's there because you guys are trying to save our house, get out of debt, right? The whole nine yards, >> right? Yes. >> How much debt do you have left?

>> Uh, we don't have this. Oh, we don't have any debt. We just are saving for a house. >> Okay. How long would he have to work

um the two jobs to help you guys get uh

let me ask that differently. If he stays in the second job, at what point will you guys have saved? How long will it take to save what you need for a house?

>> So, right now we have about um 100 150

saved um for a down payment. Um, and

we're just waiting for the right house.

So, we're just trying to save and pay off our like once we get a house, we want to pay it off as fast as we can.

Um, >> what kind of house are you guys looking at? What's the price point?

>> Um, between in this area in the area

that we're in, um, between 350 and 375.

Okay. >> Um, but we're willing to go lower.

>> All right. So, let's go back to this. So, so my question was,

how long is he going to have to work this second job to hit a number where you go, this is the right number, or is it just to infinity? Because the way you answered it was kind of like you didn't give me an answer. >> Is it when you find the right house? Is it when you hit 200,000 in down payment savings? >> Because this plays into our advice on the question that you asked, which is, can he lease? >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, he when he worked the numbers,

he said it would be about a year. Um, so it would be like next year >> and that would get you guys well over 50% on a on the on the house that you were talking about the price point, >> right? >> So he wants to work for another year >> and sock that 26,000 or whatever away

and you're going, I'm at a breaking point. Am I understanding this right?

>> Yeah.

>> Well, I want to bring in my colleague because he's probably the tightest person I've ever met in my life. He's so tight he squeaks when he walks. That's pretty tight. He's not my shoes. >> And I could see him being in this guy's shoes. Whereas I'm going the your hubs

needs to listen to you and you guys are more than fine on a down payment.

>> George, uh I feel like this is suited to you. What's What say you?

>> Well, the the major problem here is that you guys never set a defined goal, >> right? >> It was just kind of like, well, we'll just keep doing this and nobody really knows why anymore. And so I I think we need sort of a realignment to go, hey, we did this for a long time. We're out of debt. We don't need the gazelle intensity anymore. We do want to get in a house. We're clearly not in a rush cuz you're not just picking up any old house. You want it to be the right one.

You have $150,000 saved, which is incredible. That's an amazing down payment.

>> And so now I think we need to reassess and go, "Hey, I need you at home more.

I'm I'm drowning over here. You're not watching your 2-year-old grow up. like there's no need for this level of sacrifice at this stage of the game. And maybe that means we compromise a bit.

Maybe you pick up two more shifts and he scales back from the part-time job so you guys can still hit a goal that you guys decide on. But I think right now there's just no clarity and that's that's breeding some of this tension.

>> That's a really good great analysis. How does how does that sit with where you are? Does that feel right?

Um I would say that the one thing is like so I work as a I'm a registered nurse and I also have a few um health

concerns and so I'm trying to like

manage myself like manage stress management and so I'm trying and my goal

is to stay at home with my daughter. Um,

and my husband is respect like respects

me for that. Like he wants me to stay home with her. Um, so it's just trying to find that balance of him being able to be home with us. Um, and then also me

not working, I feel like it's like a

it's a hard balance. >> It is. So So let's address this because I'm hearing a husband who is he's as tight as George is super saver. He wants

to work a whole another year to keep adding to that amount because this guy doesn't even want any kind of house payment, which we appreciate and love.

So, good on him. And then you're going, but I want you home. And then you're going, but I also I want to come home full-time. And there's nothing wrong with that either. And that's great. But now I can tell you right now that stresses him out because you're bringing how much home every year through your nursing job?

>> Um, it's about 600 a month.

>> Yeah. But that's a lot of money to him.

>> That's going to freak him. I mean, below the surface, you coming home and him.

So, now we're going to one income.

>> And I'm just going to tell you, you guys are going to have to get on the same page emotionally. You're going to have to be honest with each other to go, I'm worried about this. This is what freaks me out. You got to go, I want to live like this.

This worries me if I'm working all the time as a nurse and I'm not home. All these things have got to get out on the same page of paper and we're going to have to decide what does that mean? So you may not be able to come home as soon as you want to if we want to pay the house off because if he's going I don't feel good with you coming home if we got a house payment. I'll do what I got to do but I got to go work and you go I don't want you to work a second job.

Something's got to give George >> and the budget will be a referee.

What's it going to look like when he makes 87 and that's it? Can we make this work? Can you do that tonight?

>> Yeah. >> Um, we can. We can. I think so.

>> You got to. You got to. Or you guys are coming to a fork in the road where it's not going to be pleasant. You're both good people. You love each other. You got a good overall plan, but we got some tensions and some fears that have got to

be addressed or else it's going to get ugly.

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[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them and they don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

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[Music]

All right, Danielle is joining us in Las Vegas. Danielle, how can we help today?

>> Hi. >> Hi. >> Thanks for taking my call. >> You bet.

>> Um, I'm a little nervous. I'm sorry.

>> Don't listen, don't be nervous. It's just me and George. I mean, honestly, how could you be intimidated by either one of us, you know?

>> Hi, George. >> Hi.

So, um, I have papers in the works to

buy two years and 11 months so I could retire earlier for my job.

>> All right. So, I didn't understand. I'm sorry. Do you understand what you're saying? >> Papers. >> What do you mean by papers in two years and 11 months? What What are you talking about? >> So, I have papers. I just have to sign them and I can have my deferred comp that I have Oh, okay. rolled over to buy

time so I could retire sooner.

>> Okay. Okay. Gotcha. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 54.

>> Okay. And you're wanting to retire early?

>> Yeah. >> How come? >> So, if I put it in, I'll be able to retire at 57 with 30 years in.

>> Okay. >> So, it'll be my full retirement.

>> Got it. >> I'll be able to get my pension.

>> And what's that going to be? I'm I'm just um my pension will be 6700 a month.

>> Okay.

>> And um I don't have any debt except my house. Um I bought it in 2021

and I paid 464 for it and I owe 130 on

it right now. So I'm paying it down.

>> All right. So what's your question? >> Paid off before I retire. Should I do that? Like I'm nervous.

>> Should you retire early?

>> Yeah. Well, you know, that's a deeply

personal question. I got to have some more numbers. What? Let's start with what are your fears if you were to retire early.

>> Um, I don't know that I'll run out of money or something. >> All right. How much money? George is the man with he's got his investment calculator. Give us your retirement. We know what your pension is going to be, but what do you got in retirement?

So, um, my I get my husband's pension

and right now I'm getting 3,000 a month, but in about a year it's going to go down to um 800

and then I'll be able to get his social security when I'm 60 and that's another

uh 1865 a month. Um,

and I have another retirement that I

invested in uh California

uh that I have to call and check and see how much that is. But if it's just the face value what they show me and if not,

you know, keeps adding up or whatever, it will be another 460 a month from that. And then um I have my um my

deferred comp which I met with my person

yesterday and I ramped it up so that when the money gets taken out it's not going to go to zero. I'll have like 65,000 in there still. I'm going to ramp it up so I could save more in my deferred comp. And I have a Roth and I have a borrow uh I have a 357 that they

match and right now I'm putting 5% that they match and then in my Roth I'm putting 10%. But what are your total amounts in those accounts?

>> Um, in my >> the 401k and the Roth, >> oh, it's

72,000 and I'm going to roll over like

119.

>> Okay. I mean, it sounds like you're in pretty decent shape considering you have this pretty massive pension that's going to be there for you.

>> Yeah. So financially, I don't think this is about just the numbers. I think you you know your numbers pretty well when you're going, can you live off just even if you had to live off just the pension alone, nothing else, could you do it easily and be comfortable?

>> Mhm. >> And you said you're going to pay off the mortgage before you retire. So by your 57th birthday, no more mortgage,

>> right? >> Okay. >> I don't think you're going to run out of money if if that's that was the question or that was the fear. I don't see that.

Well, I just worry about like healthcare and stuff because I've been like really blessed my whole life. I've never paid out of pocket for health care. My companies or my husband has paid for it like over and above.

>> So, I'm kind of worried about that. And I want to get like um that long-term

disability like when I get really old and so my kids don't take care of me.

>> Are you in good health now? >> Something. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Let's let future you worry about that with all the future retirement money that's going to be sitting there >> uh on top of Medicare. So, I'm not as concerned about the health care piece.

I'm more concerned in the meantime in the next 20 years. What does Danielle's life look like? Cuz you're are you a widow?

>> Yes. >> Wow. What happened?

>> Um my husband committed suicide in 2020

January. >> Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry.

>> So, so sad. So, your picture of what the future look like, I mean, just immediately shattered at that point.

>> Uh, yeah, we don't even know.

>> What does your new picture look like? What does Danielle's future look like on

her own? Do you have kids all out of the house? >> I I I just I mean, I had a whole house

full at one point, now they're all gone.

Um, I just I just got diagnosed with

ADHD and anxiety. M >> and so like and I didn't notice that I even had that until my husband passed away. Like it was just like a lot of things at once. I never I never realized I didn't wake up to an alarm clock until after he passed away because he always catch me goodbye in the morning.

>> I'm so sorry. >> That was really really hard. Like oh my god I don't hear my I set like 12 alarms. >> Yeah. Well, then the question behind all that is to go, have you actually started to dream again? To go, what does this new picture of life look like? Other than, well, I just think I should retire early. >> And that's all we want is we want you to have a we want you retiring to something and not just from something.

>> Right. Right. And my son, uh, he's in

the service and he's stationed in Hawaii. He wants me to go stay out there for a few months and then I have three granddaughters and I just want to spend more time with my family.

>> Yeah, those are some great wives. lives in California. My sister lives in California, takes care of my mom, and I kind of want to help her with that. Um,

just more flexibility with my time.

>> You're laying out a strong case. >> Do my art.

>> Oh, you you paint that relaxes me.

>> What kind of art do you do?

>> I I just paint.

>> I love it. >> That's one of the cheapest and best forms of therapy right there. >> Yeah. Um, we just want to encourage you, Danielle. uh you're in good shape, you're frugal, um you're going to work a little bit longer. Uh between all the numbers, I mean, George ran the numbers for you. Um you know, there's no there's

no reason for you to be fearful about your future.

>> I didn't think so, but I just like my anxiety. I'm just always I'm always going to worry. >> I get Do you have a financial adviser in your corner?

Um, I I don't really um but I just and I

have like over a h 100,000 in a savings and checking account. >> Of course you do. >> Here's what I I'm telling you this for a reason. I think this is going to be one of the most effective forms of treatment for what you're going through is to have a financial adviser sit down, go through all the accounts, help you optimize, and then go, Danielle, you're fine.

Go see your grandbabies. Stop thinking about the money. >> Yeah.

>> You won't have to touch it?

>> But I won't have to start like taking money out of >> Oh, like required minimum distributions, the RMDs. Yeah.

>> Well, I jump on to ramseyolutions.com, Danielle. Go to ramseolutions.com and click on Smartvestor Pro. get in touch with a financial adviser that can walk you through all this and help you think through things very clearly, very calmly so that you don't have to think about it anymore. I think we need to get all this out of your brain. It's living there rentree for far too long and you have bigger dreams, bigger things to worry about than the numbers.

>> You're young. You're young. So, you

know, who knows what the future holds. I feel like I'm not though sometimes I >> Well, you've been listen you've been through a lot. Uh there there's no no doubt on that. But uh interview a couple do two or three meetings off of that list on on Ramsey Solutions and get with somebody you feel very comfortable with.

As they begin to map out your future and help you see all this, you're going to go from worrying to a lot of peace in this area of your life. And then hopefully that will trickle down into the other areas of your life because you've been through a lot. You're sweet lady. Um, so very sorry for your loss, but I can tell you financially you're going to be more than fine. So, and map out a future that involves family, grandbabies, all the things. Uh,

>> I want to be like be able to take my kids and yearly vacations and

>> there you go. While you're alive, live, you know, and uh you you got plenty of time and plenty of money to do that.

Thank you, Danielle.

[Music]

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[Music]

Claire is joining us now in Knoxville, Tennessee, the home of the Tennessee Volunteers.

Claire, how can we help?

Thank you so much for taking my call.

>> You bet.

>> Um, I guess what I'm wondering is me and

my boyfriend, we currently live with my parents and are expecting our first child and we want to know when the correct time for us to buy a house is going to be >> when you can afford it.

>> And I guess I'm thinking, can we afford it? >> Probably not. People who ask that question generally side in the area of they cannot. But tell us your financial situation. How much money?

>> Well, >> do you guys make >> right now? He brings in um we're just on

one income right now. He brings in 3,600

a month. >> Okay. And what does he do for a living?

>> Uh he basically works for um a union, but he works in construction.

>> Okay. And go ahead, George. I'm just wondering is there a a growth path for him there or is this it? Like he's the he's at the top of the ladder. >> No, he No, he's not at the top of the ladder. He's basically just begun. He's in his second year apprenticeship. So, he will be getting >> Oh, good. >> He gets pay raises throughout.

>> And what's the uh what's the ultimate destination? If he is um apprenticing,

where does he end up?

>> Eventually, I think he becomes a journeyman and I think he would top out around

somewhere around $40 an hour, but I haven't calculated okay that.

>> So, why are you two uh living with your parents with a baby on the way? You're not married. Do we have a family plan here? What's what's the deal? Because one of the things we we don't do is we never recommend that an unmarried couple I was on the show with Dave yesterday and he made it extremely clear, George,

that mar if you're not married, you should not be buying a house together.

So I want to make that clear. So what's the family plan here for you two?

>> Well, we want to get married and that's

in the plan. >> How long you guys been together? >> I don't know.

Uh two years.

Well, it doesn't seem like we really want to get married. People that want to get married go down to the courthouse and get married and do a ceremony later.

You guys are playing house in your mom and dad's house. That's not ideal.

>> Yeah, I would be fine with going down to

the courthouse, but I think it's kind of um he's worried about what his family will

think. I mean, what about the optics of

living with your mom and dad with a baby on the way to someone he's not married to? I think the optics are out the window at this point of what his family thinks. >> Yeah, that's not a winning scenario for him with his folks.

>> Yeah. And I feel like I tried to explain

that to him, but he doesn't really like understand, I guess. Or >> I think it may be deeper than that.

I hate to tell you. I know you didn't call for relationship advice.

But if his excuse is, I don't like the

way it's going to look, George nailed that one to the wall. It looks way worse when you are shacking up with your girlfriend who's pregnant in her parents' house. That doesn't say I've launched.

>> So yeah, >> we I'm not going to take any more time up on this call, but I do think this is a serious relationship conversation.

Where are we going?

and he doesn't get to kick the can down the road anymore.

You got to force this issue.

>> Yeah. So, you think that first step before anything is just get married?

>> If we're talking about buying a house, yes, >> we're bringing a human into this world that we're going to raise together. >> I think that, too.

>> What's the financial situation?

>> Um, you guys have any debt?

>> Uh, well, yes, he does have debt. Um, we

we have about

He's got a truck. >> Well, see, here's the thing. Let me let me jump in. There is no we. You guys aren't married. There's your finances

and then there's his finances. There's no we. You guys aren't legally married.

Therefore, you don't have shared finances. >> So, do you have any debt in your name?

Have you co-signed anything?

>> Great news. >> Okay. So, you didn't cosign on his truck? No, no, I don't have anything.

>> What is his truck payment?

>> Uh, with a warranty that he has on it, it's 77.

>> So, you're telling me you Okay, this is the frustrating part. You guys can't even afford to go rent, let alone buy a house. >> Exactly. That's why they're living in the basement. >> Childlike behavior to say, "I want a truck instead of create some independence for my own family." >> Yeah. >> What other debt does he have?

>> Uh, that's that. Just the truck.

>> Yeah. >> What does he owe on the truck? Do you know the balance?

>> Yeah, it's 36.

>> Goodness gracious. >> 36. >> Yeah. >> Your parents would do well to kick him out of the house.

>> I'm serious. He's got to grow up. I mean, that's almost his yearly income tied up in a car that's going down in value. >> Yeah. Guarantee he plays video games, too. >> Guaranteed.

He's got to grow up. He does. He does play video games. I knew it. This kid should not be playing video games. He doesn't have any time to play anything.

He's got a child on the way and he's living with his girlfriend's parents.

It's a growup time. Somebody's got to have a hard conversation with him. Cuz I'm going to tell you, if you were my sister, I would be freaking out right now with you going, "What in the world are you doing?

>> This young guy is who's not a grown-up is going to pull you into his mess.

So, forget the house.

>> I know you called about the house. >> If you want the true next steps, if you can convince him and get on the same page, would be to sell the truck, get married, get an emergency fund, and then move out and rent and do that for a year, two, three, while saving up a down payment. And then maybe a few years from now, we can get into a house. That's a big maybe.

That's if his income goes up drastically. >> And he's got a good trade job. That's the good news. >> He's got work ethic.

>> So, would you guys suggest using like

should he use his savings to

>> pay off the truck or >> How much does he have?

>> Uh 16,000.

>> Yes. >> He doesn't have enough to pay it off, but he can cover the difference. He's underwater. I'm guessing the truck is isn't worth 36.

>> Um I have no idea. I would do some homework tonight and find out the Kelly Blue Book private party value to see what he could sell it for on his own.

Not a tradein, but to sell it private.

And if he can get 40 for it and the loan is 36, good. But it might be worth 32

and he owes 36. Well, now he needs to pony up four grand to get out of this deal. And he still needs money on top of that to buy something reasonable used that can get him from A to B to the construction site. >> Yeah. >> Do you do you love this guy? You want him to marry you?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, then you need to tell him.

This is what we're doing. And when are you due?

>> Um, actually in a few days.

>> Whoa. >> Oh my goodness.

All right. Here's the deal. Once the baby's born, everything's healthy hopefully and all the things. You guys need to get married. Uh, and and well,

I'm sorry. You need to get married. I'd get married today, but you need to get to work. You've got family that can watch the baby. And if you're a young couple, as George was saying, the only thing I was going to add to this, if you want to marry this guy, let's go get married. Get married today. And then we start our life together. We're going to combine finances, which means he needs you working. You need to work. And you got somebody to watch the baby. Is this forever? No. But it's for this season to

get you guys out of your parents' house and living on your own. You need two incomes.

>> Um, >> you got childare. Do you think

>> do you think I should pay for child care or >> No, I think I Well, I would ask my mom and if they would help watch the baby you're living with them.

>> They're okay with your boyfriend living with you. >> I'd crunch the numbers on what it's going to cost. If they're unwilling to watch for free or you need to pay them or you need to get child care, see what you could make to make sure it makes sense because it might cost you your entire paycheck and then it's a moot point. >> Yeah.

And I'm not saying that. I'm just assuming probably in incorrectly, but I would at least have the conversation with my parents, >> you know. >> Yeah, they they are able to >> Oh, okay. Well, then then we got to figure that part out.

But you guys need to get married if you're if you're going to be together. You got a name for the baby yet?

>> Uh, yeah. Yeah, we do. It's Maggie.

>> Maggie. >> Maggie. >> I love that. >> Ignorant question. Whose last name does the baby take in this case?

>> His. >> His. Okay.

>> Yeah. I >> think it's time to get I'd get married before we head to the hospital. >> I would too. >> Let's go down to the courthouse and we could party later. >> If George or I were or were ordained, we'd do it here on the air. >> That'd be incredible. >> I think the Randy Show needs a ceremony.

>> I'd be the ring bear, the flower girl.

I' >> You could do the music. >> Oh, love it. >> Call us back. We'll make it happen. >> I'd marry him and throw the rice.

[Music]

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[Music]

>> Heather's up in Minneapolis. Heather, how can we help today?

>> Um, hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> You bet. >> Um, I have a question about budgeting.

Is there ever a time in your life or like in our life in the future that we would stop tracking intensely with each

and every dollar and just kind of can I

don't know budget maybe more in large buckets?

>> Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, I think the concept of budgeting will always be there, should always be there, but it will get easier and more fun the more money you have, and it can be more generalized. So, for example, you might not need 17 line items and syncing funds, and instead it just says shopping, >> you know what I mean?

And it might just be a little simpler. >> Man, that's music to my ears. >> Yeah, Ken loves to hear that. >> I have that's what I have.

So, where are you guys at financially?

>> Um, so we're baby step seven.

>> Woohoo. >> And probably within a couple years, we'll be able to withdraw from start taking some money from our non-retirement investments just to kind of do some applications. And >> that's great. What does your what does your picture look like? Can you tell us your net worth?

Yep. It's maybe just over 8 million.

>> Hey there. >> Back to your initial question. I think you're there.

>> You're pretty darn you're pretty darn close. If you aren't, I think you're there. I think you have that kind of margin. >> Yeah.

The budget now exists not to like just keep you on track. It exists to fulfill your dream and your vision >> for what retirement and this next season of your life looks like. And so the better you manage it, the more you'll have to make an impact to, you know, maybe that's pass down wealth, maybe that's to impact your community, give to organizations you love, spend like Congress. I mean, you can do what you want with $8 million.

So, how how do you go from intensely

budgeting to get I mean we we did that to get where we are today to being more

generalized categories I guess.

>> What does your budget look like today?

Do you have a ton of line items?

>> Yes, very much. >> Okay. And who's whose idea was that to go let's get very specific or how long has it been like this?

>> Um it's mostly mine. I'm the the budget spreadsheet person. So, >> we have lots of funds and just kind of

draw from there. >> And the truth is the funds, you don't need all of those funds anymore. If you guys had you wanted to get a new car, you could just go get a new car, >> right? >> You don't need $1,000 into a car syncing fund to tell you that you have 12,000 at the end of the year.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's >> Is that a good example?

>> Yeah. Yep. >> Okay. And then for utilities, for example, instead of having everything listed out, you could probably just have one that says utilities and you drag the water bill in there. You drag the electricity bill in there. And right now it says water, electric, HOA, etc.

>> Sure. Okay. So, it's more just a brain switch for myself to >> to switch that to more. >> Do a budget audit and maybe with your husband and just go, hey, what areas could we simplify this budget so when I look at it, it doesn't give me anxiety, it just gives me joy.

And maybe you have like the margin category now of just how much extra you're going to have per month because my guess is you guys have a great income. How much do you make a month?

>> Awesome. So is it like you know 15 grand drops in that account every month give or take? >> U about 13,653

>> just about. Yeah she knows. So you know this is a great example. So, what I would do is is okay, we know all of our

utilities and all the bills and grocery like you've got that down to a science.

I know you do.

>> So, all of the basic living expenses,

all of that you can consolidate, you know, as George told you, but once you got that number, then anything outside

of that number, again, simplify the budget because again, you don't you don't have to have all these funds. So, I I would just, you know, super simple like George said, but then after we've taken care of the necessities, whatever that monthly margin is that you don't

have to spend, it's not going to anything to live, that's when you start to loosen up and have some fun with that and realize we've got plenty of margin.

So, let's uh just keep it let's budget it like it's margin.

>> Does that make does that make sense what I'm saying? It's super simple. Yeah. And it'll retrain your brain over time because the more you look at that budget and the more simple it gets, the more your brain goes, "Oh, we're fine." It'll be a quick glance instead of a long budget meeting. It's just like, "Hey, do we have any big things coming up this month that we want to do?" Right. >> No. Okay, cool. Do you guys plan ahead

on fun stuff?

>> Oh, yeah. Yep. >> Yeah. All right. >> Does anything scare you right now?

>> Like what are your fears or like the thing that like I want to do this, but it feels frivolous? Like do you have a hard time spending? What's the issue?

No, we don't have a we don't have a hard time spending. It's just I would like to not I feel like I've been budgeting for so long that I would just like to just kind of loosen it up a little bit.

>> Sure. Hey, how about this? I'll gift you this. Take a month off of budgeting.

Just take a month off. See how it feels.

>> Could you do that? Okay. >> You are so powerful.

>> You just I just gave her the gift. You just wield that power so effortlessly.

You just told Heather, "Hey, hey, Heather, don't budget for a month." I just want it's like you you've been counting calories your whole life and I'm going hey just eat the meal and enjoy it and see what that's like because you guys have done such a good job to get here and the budget was a key and so it's not that the budget is is no longer serving you. I just think it is it's taking up too much space in your head >> and so I would like to just see you free yourself of that for a month.

What likely will happen is you you'll forget after like seven days enjoy your life and then you'll go back to it and go oh I remember you.

Okay. >> Wow. I tell you what, folks.

>> George never ceases to amaze me. A lot of power you're wielding here. >> Old dog new tricks here. Look at to not

budget for a month.

>> It uh be careful, George. A lot of power for one person. >> $7 million. >> Could go to your head. Could go to your head quickly.

Uh no, but I think you're absolutely right. That that was good. You know what? You also you you were like an emperor and then you were Mr. Rogers all in one call. >> Yeah. do things I never thought.

>> I'll go back for the week and I'll see that the budget is my friend who is very Mr. Rogers. Thank you. I love that. Uh, by the way, uh, we're talking about budgeting and we have to mention the allnew every dollar. Now, George, when we say all new, I don't want people to think that we slapped a new logo on this. >> No, actually, same logo.

>> Exactly.

>> Exactly. And let's describe this because I don't think people realize this is no longer and when we launched it, it was a great budgeting app, but it is no longer just a budgeting app. Tell them, George.

>> I'm pulling mine out right now. So, we still got the same great budgeting app there. Like, you still have that tab, but there's a new tab that says today.

>> And so, this is the the personalized plan. We're calling it the digital coach experience, uh, with a bunch of advanced features. And what it does now is we've integrated the Ramsay plan. We have breathed life into what once was just math in a slick budgeting app.

Now we're actually going to give you recommendations personalized to you based on where you're at, based on the information you give us, so we can skewer you in the right direction, much like we would on the Ramsay show, but now you can do this in your pocket 24/7 on your smartphone. All you got to do is go download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play. And what's cool is the average person is finding thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. How is that possible, George?

Here's the debt I have. Here's the assets that I have. Here's kind of what I'm willing to do. Here's my goals.

Well, now we can start to shape that and go, hey, what if you did XYZ? Are you willing to do that? Nope. Okay, how about this? And so, between all those recommendations, it adds up to over $3,000 in margin.

>> Yeah, it's crazy. I love that. So, there you go. every dollar. Uh, and you can

get it for free in the App Store or Google Play. And then I got to share this because, uh, you know, we we we

love what we do because we get to help real people. We get to meet real people.

And one of the great things about this is we do our show uh, in front of a live studio audience. They're out there in the lobby. Lovely group of people today from all around the country. We get to meet them.

And we went out uh on our uh, just a minute ago and took some pictures. And I don't know if the guys can zoom in on this. Oh, please zoom in on this photo. You got to be watching on YouTube or Spotify.

>> Some young children love George's videos. There they go. Here's the zoom in here. If you're on YouTube, and they drew a picture of you and expressed their love and appreciation for you.

And I thought, this is actually a pretty good photo, but they see you without a beard. >> Oh, >> did you notice that? >> And it's a good reminder of why I have one.

Sorry, Elliot. Elliot and uh Gideon Fowler. Appreciate you guys listening.

It does. Listen, we're affecting the next generation. >> You really are. Listen, they love his videos. I said, George, this is a high compliment. These kids have the attention span of a squirrel on cocaine and they're watching your videos. This is fantastic. >> I have the same brain as a 10-year-old.

That's why they love it. >> You look handsome without the beard. Appreciate that.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. Glad you're with us. Let's go to West Virginia and Eric is there. Eric, how can we help?

>> Hi. Yes, sir. So, uh, my question comes to my wife and I have made very poor financial decisions in the past and we're we're trying to take care of that now. Um but my question is how do we get rid of vehicles when we are so upside down on them? Um because that's our biggest hurdle right now.

>> Okay. Well, walk us through the exact details of the vehicles. Uh what you owe

and uh what you could get for them uh in private sale.

>> Okay. So, uh we'll start off with the most expensive. Um it would be uh my wife's Jeep. Um we owe 47,000.

Um, on a good day, uh, high Kelly Blue Book value is 35,000. Um, and then my

car, uh, it's a Civic. Um, we owe 21,000. On a good day, it would be 18,000 that we could get. Um, and then we have a motorcycle as well. Um, and motorcycles are weird. Um, it's hard to find like direct value with those. U, but we owe 10,000 on that. And, you know, I would be lucky. I'd like to think I could get 8,000 out of it. So, we're about, if I did quick math, George, 17,000 in the hole on all three.

Okay.

>> Is that all of your debt? You guys have other types?

>> Oh, no. We have we have a lot of other debt, and that's that's what we're trying to get on top of, you know.

>> What are the total payments for these cars and motorcycle?

>> Uh, so the Jeep is 960. Uh, the Civic is

455 and the motorcycle is 305.

>> Oh my goodness gracious. I literally have a stomach ache like right now.

>> I got to get 10 some Tums after this.

Tums. >> What's your household income?

>> Uh about 67 a month after taxes.

>> Okay. Are you guys doing any investing right now? >> No. >> 6700?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And you got over $1,700 in payments on these vehicles?

>> Yes. Unfortunately. >> What's your rent or mortgage?

Um, our mortgage is 468 a month.

>> 468?

>> Yes. >> Do you live in a trailer?

>> I do. Yes. >> Goodness gracious, man. Your Jeep is nicer than your house.

>> It is. Uh, we've, like I said, we've made really poor financial decisions and we're just trying our best to get out of it at this point.

>> Okay. What other debt do you have? What's the total balance?

>> Break. So total debt of everything is 209,000.

>> That's just consumer debt.

>> Uh well, yes. So that includes the vehicles, the house, and then uh credit cards um uh would be 41,000.

>> Okay. >> Y'all are just living like you're in Beverly Hills, not West Virginia in the hills. >> That's That's for sure. >> What made you guys want to turn this thing around?

Um well so um I had a security clearance

and um I had again we've made super poor

financial decisions but I had a vehicle years ago get repossessed um and that repossession come back up on

my security clearance and with the security clearance concern um obviously

that was like a slap in the face like okay we need to get our our life together here. Um, and uh, so debt's

been trying to or sorry, our extra income's been trying to go towards taking care of that. Um, and yeah. So,

>> okay. Well, I I'll give you the advice on the cars. You're 17 grand underwater.

So, that's your magic number of how much money you need to come up with to get out of these payments. So, either you need to save up that amount or you need to get a loan from your your local credit union to cover that amount. I don't know that they're going to give it to you. My guess is your credit shot.

>> It is. It is. and we've tried to do that and they won't they won't work with us.

>> How much can you put away each month?

You know, if you cover all the bills, minimum debt payments, how much can you set aside?

>> So, right now, we're working with around $600 a month. Um, and and like I said,

we've been trying to use that towards our other debts and stuff like that in the last year. Um, but then like I said, that that repossession from years ago kind of came up and that's what we've been trying to tackle at this moment.

All right. Um, I'm gonna ask a question here. Uh, what would what would it cost you to rent? Uh, I know you're in a trailer. Did you have a mortgage on, but what would it cost you to rent in your area?

>> Um, so that's tough. Like the cheap because we've been looking at that. Um, the cheapest that we found is like 1,200 a month. Um, and of course we've been looking at other areas. We've been looking at outside of our county and stuff like that. But, uh, yeah, it's not really found anything. >> Well, what do you mean? You looked outside your county. You didn't find anything to rent?

>> No, we found plenty of stuff to rent, but like $1,200 a month is far more than we can afford. >> I get that. But I mean, what about like somebody has got a a a bedroom over a garage? Have you looked at that kind of stuff? The non-traditional rentals.

>> Well, we we have two children, so >> I know, but you're in a trailer that's losing value. And where I'm going with this, George, is I don't know if you have any equity in that trailer.

So, we owe about 40,000 on the trailer.

It's a It's a 2017. I bought it brand new in 2017. Um, and I don't Yeah, I don't think that it would be worth much more than that. I don't know. I don't know how I would even go about selling a trailer. You know what I mean? >> I don't know either, dude. But I >> You got the credit card debt and the cars. Anything else? And of course, the trailer. Do you have any other debt?

>> Uh, well, student loans. Um, but that I included that in my credit card debt.

It's uh 11,000 in student loans.

Okay. Well, here's the the hard truth.

At this rate, if you put 600 bucks away to get to that 17,000 amount you're underwater on, which by the way just lets you sell them. That means you have no vehicle. You have no money to put towards another vehicle. It would take you 28 months.

>> And by then, those cars have dropped even more in value. So, we don't have time to play that game. You guys are both about to be working 80, 90 hour weeks to climb out of this. There are no good solutions here.

Uh that's I mean my wife has picked up a second job. Um because of my career now I'm not allowed to pick up a second job.

Uh so you know we're we're doing what we can. >> What do you what do you make?

>> Uh so I bring home um about five grand a

little over five grand a month.

>> Can you switch careers and go work three jobs?

I I can, but uh my you know, I've been in this career now for 12 years and retirement is only eight years away. So >> retirement, dude, you can't even eat.

You're broke.

>> I I understand that, but with I mean, I'm eligible for retirement at 20 years.

And you know, obviously I can stay in it longer than that. But >> I mean, let me tell you something, young man. you called and your response to what we're telling you is just a

heartbeat away from being stuck in this cycle the rest of your life. And I I was born in a small town in West Virginia. I know that state.

>> Yes, sir. >> I know the economic situation that you're in. You don't want to do this to yourself. So, your response of, well, I'm I'm in this. This is where I'm at.

And then but eight. I mean you you have a full-blown crisis on your hands.

>> I agree. >> How old are those kids?

>> Uh nine and the other one's about to turn two.

>> My goodness, man. If you do it for nothing else, do it for those kids.

>> You got to bring in some more income.

This is an income issue right now to fix. >> I don't care what the benefits are >> because you're going to be stuck in the cycle the rest of your life if we don't make severe changes.

>> Well, so my career, let me just clarify

that. my I'm in the military and so

it you know I can I can get out of the military but obviously I'm in a contract and I got to wait and all that kind of stuff.

>> Well, your wife's going to have to take the brunt of it for now. >> All right. So, we get that. So, now she's got to work like crazy >> and and she is.

>> Income is your only way out of this cuz we can't even get rid of these cars because of the dumpster fire situation with them being underwater. Maybe your credit gets decent enough over time that you can get a loan from the credit union to cover the difference plus a little bit extra. But man, this is a no-win situation. So, sorry.

[Music]

Our

[Music]

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Find out more at yrefi.com/ramsey.

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May not be available in all states.

Today's question comes from Hayden in Georgia. My wife and I bring home $8,000

a month and we pay 7500 a month on debt and living expenses. We're 138,000 in

debt between credit cards, car loans, student loans, and unpaid taxes. How am I supposed to pay extra on the debt with only 500 bucks a month left over that has to cover food, utilities, etc. I have redone my budget and save money where I could. I tried selling my car, but I'm $5,000 upside down. Should I just file bankruptcy and be done with it?

>> Well, if this isn't the most American question I've ever gotten. In other countries, they'd be like, "You make $8,000 a month. You are the wealthiest person I've met." And they go, "No, no, no. We're broke.

We're broke. You don't understand." >> Okay, let's address this. Uh, you said living expenses, but then you said 500 bucks a month has to cover food, utilities, etc. So, that should be included in your living expenses.

Not sure why you worded it like that, cuz that frightens me if that doesn't even cover your food and utilities and it's costing you $7,500 a month.

upside down question, that's a simple one. You need $5,000 either saved up

from your extra cash every month or you need to get a loan from your local credit union plus enough to get you a different car to get rid of that car payment, which will definitely help. The unpaid taxes, that's going to the top of the list. IRS gets paid first because they are the scariest. They can destroy your life, garnish your wages, yada yada.

The rest of this, I'm going, we need to do a budget audit tonight, which I'm sure you guys have never done one, but go download every dollar. List out your income for the month, 8,000. List out every single expense, including your minimum payments on your debt, and then be judicious and go, "What do we not need to survive?" And that becomes your new budget. Hopefully, you can shave off uh a whole lot right there.

And then if that doesn't solve it, you don't have enough margin. You need to go make more money, which I know is crazy because you guys have a great income making eight grand a month. you might need to make nine grand, 10 grand a month with some side hustles and overtime selling stuff, whatever you got to do to get to a little more stability and find that margin. >> Uh George, >> that's my take.

Don't do it. >> I agree. But I'm going to tee you up. Uh I don't The last line is what concerns me because I think there's millions of Americans who drop into this. It's a mindset. The last line is should I just

file bankruptcy and be done with it? It is a I if I file bankruptcy,

hey, I wipe it all clean. Uh I get a

fresh start. I don't think people realize what a prison bankruptcy is.

George, let's talk about the meat and potatoes of bankruptcy. Okay, you do it.

You file for it. Now, here's the circumstances or in other words, here is

uh what you're going to have to deal with because you've done it. Explain that. >> Well, number one, it destroys your financial world. So, your credit is completely shot.

And again, I don't care about your credit score, but if you have a bad one, it's going to hurt every area of your finances. Your insurance premiums, your ability to get a job, to rent an apartment, all of that is affected by that >> sustain. >> And on top of that, there's two types that most people do. Chapter 7 or chapter 11.

Um, and you know, one is just a repayment plan >> or chapter 13, uh, sorry, the repayment plan. And so, you're going to have to sell all your assets.

So, good luck getting rid of those if that's the main thing dragging you down.

And again, it doesn't solve the problem. What we find is most people that file bankruptcy end up doing it again if they don't change the behavior that got them there. >> It's kind of like watching an episode of Hoarders and they've just destroyed the place. It's a dumpster.

And they go, "Well, I guess we'll just sell the house and start over." Instead of going, "Let's clean this up." >> Yeah. >> Let's maniacally get rid of stuff. Send it to the junk. Clean it up.

And so, uh, bankruptcy is something we never recommend. Obviously, famously, our CEO Dave Ramsey went through bankruptcy, but he had no other choice. His back was against the wall and he couldn't pay it off fast enough. He was actually very close and he couldn't pay it off fast enough to avoid it.

So, it's something that we always tell people, avoid it at all costs. Fight, fight, fight to climb out.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely good advice there. Alexa is now joining us in Springfield, Michigan. and Alexa, how can we help?

>> Hi guys, thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm a longtime listener, big fan. And I'm actually in Springfield, Missouri. >> Oh, Missouri. You know what? I thought that, but uh I saw the MI instead of the M O. >> That's okay. People forget about us a lot. >> Not me. >> It's not Ken's fault. Not me. >> He just was reading. He was Ron Burgundy reading what was on the screen. >> Uh isn't we have a Don't we have a president a former president from Springfield, Missouri?

>> Am I right about that? Oh, >> Harry Truman. Is that right or wrong? I may be wrong. I know he's from Missouri, but uh nonetheless, trying to make you feel good. We love Springfield. What's going on tonight?

>> Yes. I So, my question is a shovel question. >> Okay. >> So, currently, um I'm trying to decide

between two jobs. Um I'm a nurse and I

have worked at my hospital that I'm at now for 13 years. and I've just recently

moved into healthcare IT. I'm making a

decent income for my area about 91,400 a

year.

Um, I graduated from here. I've worked here for my entire career. Um, I've got

a very flexible job. I'm in office four days a week, remote one day. I love my team. I love my bosses. And I also qualify for public service loan forgiveness here in May of 2026. and

that will be $24,000 forgiven.

But um recently I was not looking for a job because I qualify for PLSF so soon.

But I was approached for a job for a big company and just decided to explore it.

>> Good. >> And this job. Yeah. um was it's fully

remote and it would be I would be a consultant for a product I do really believe in and I thought it was going to be um $110,000 a year plus a 10% bonus

yearly guaranteed that I would lose that public service loan forgiveness. Um the

other catch is is that it's 45 to 60 days a year of national travel.

>> Okay.

>> So my official offer came in on Monday.

Mh. >> And um they offered me 115,000 a year, a

$10,000 sign on bonus.

>> We like that. >> And that 10% yearly bonus. But it's I

guess it's a moral conundrum because I'm very attached to my current system that

I'm in. And I've got such a good thing going. So I'm like, should I take this new risk and jump into something kind of more unknown >> for more money? >> Well, it comes down to this. So I love this. great job laying it out and uh you know uh I've counseledled over 10,000 people on the air on this very topic and

it always comes down to the long term.

>> Where do you want to be 25, 30 years

from now? And the professional choices that you're going to be faced with, they

need to always come in through that filter. Does this move me forward one

way or the other? Even a step back sometimes moves us forward. But if the step back puts me where on the path to where I want to be long term, then I'm always always for it and I make financial concessions in order to be able to do that. So in this situation, when you say you're morally tied to your

system, that's a curious statement. What do you mean morally tied?

>> I, you know, I've worked here for so long and we are a pretty small community. I mean, we're the biggest little town kind of in Missouri.

>> All right. So, here's the deal. I got a minute. I got a minute with you, so I got to hurry. Okay. >> Okay. >> So, question is, which one of these jobs, staying where you are or taking the new job? Which one of those puts you on the path or moves you further along

on the path you want to be?

>> The current one or the new? The new one.

It sets you up for the long term financially plus professionally.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, it's a no-brainer, Alexa. You're a good person. And those people are going to be okay with you when you leave. And if they're not, they were never good people in the first place.

>> Oh, I Yeah, when you put it like that, it makes so much sense. >> I know. Cuz I'm not emotionally attached to it. So, I sound so balanced.

But the reality is, I've had to walk through this, too. And because you're a good person and you like the people and you're loyal, then you're feeling, you know what you're really worried about? You're scared they're going to think you're a bad person if you leave them behind. >> And the math checks out.

I mean, this ROI is a,000% taking this new gig. The 10,000 sign on bonus, you're making an extra 24 a year.

is a moot point. You can pay that off on your own. >> This was a financial no-brainer, George, from the get-go. I always want to know emotionally and professionally, where are we at? And that's the answer to the question. Love it. Excited for you, Alexa. Go. Don't look back.

All [Music]

right, we get a lot of great questions from our audience, George. And here are some top questions people have about online wills. Number one, how do I know

if I need a trust or if my estate is too

complicated for an online will?

>> Oo, a good baseline. If your estate is worth less than a million, getting a will online probably the right option for you. >> All right, number two. Uh, what do I need to start my will online?

>> Well, you got to think it through a few questions here. What do who do you want to get your stuff? That's a big one. Who do you want to take care of your minor children?

And then who do you want to make decisions for you if you're incapacitated? So, there's a lot that goes into a will, online or not. You got to think through through those things. >> Good stuff.

Number three, is an online will legally valid? These people a little worried about the old online business. >> They go, "Well, it's online. It's got to be done in a lawyer's office." Uh, not just any online will you find on the internet's legally valid.

Your online will needs to match the laws of your state. So, you got to have a state specific will. >> And then a follow-up to that, why would I want an online will versus a traditional one made with a lawyer?

>> There you go. It's that simple. I love it. That's the way I did it. >> You're trying to save a buck or two, George. Go to ramseyolutions.com/willsquiz

to find out if an online will is right for you. And I I I I feel like I got to tell the audience this, and I think you'll be okay with this, George, but you know, George is very calm. He's a very calm person. Uh it's rare that you see him flumxed >> and uh he is your broccoli got steamed

today. >> Yeah. And I don't you're not really a steamed broccoli guy.

>> And when the show is over, boy, somebody's going to catch your wrath.

That's all I'm going to say. George is there's somebody attempting to rip George off. >> Might catch a stray today if you're catch me on the wrong side >> to the tune of $149. And you would think this guy got ripped off for $14,900.

How upset he is. >> It's the principle. Woo. So, just I'm proud of you. You're really holding it together cuz I know how angry you are.

>> Well, I'm a consumer advocate and you got to advocate for yourself first and so nobody rips old Georgie boy off. I'll

keep you guys posted. >> Caller beware. He is steaming underneath

that natty little coat there. He's looking good. Yeah, he is hot to trot.

Kevin is up in Minneapolis. Kevin, how can we help?

>> Hi. How you doing? >> We're having a blast. Kevin, what's going on with you? >> Well, good. Well, I've got kind of a funny situation here. Um, we really have

it pretty decent financially. Um, we're

going to be, my wife and I are 65 years old. We're going to be retiring in the next month and uh we make about $150,000

a year. Um, we've got an employee

compensation of about 123 about

$120,000.

that's uh taxfree. It's taxable when we take it out. Uh our social security should be about $4,500 a month. I got about a $1,500 a month pension. Um we uh

we owe about $160,000 on our house. Uh it's worth about um

it's worth about $430,000

now. Um my uncle recently uh passed away

and we are uh set to inherit

um between $500 and $700,000.

>> Whoa. >> Um here's the problem that I here's the problem that I that I have. We attended Dave's Financial Peace University uh through our church and we loved it. We absolutely loved it. We don't owe anybody any money except for our house.

And uh Dave says that if you don't know about investing, he said don't do it. Um

and um I'm I'm wondering where where do

we put this money? Uh because I don't know anything about about the stock market. I don't know anything about uh uh financing to that level. And I just don't want to I I I wanna I want to do what God wants me to do. Um I I want to

be careful, you know. >> Sure. Well, let me let me uh let me speak on behalf of Dave here. Uh when you heard him say that, the spirit of what he was saying uh is no one should

ever invest a nickel into anything if they don't understand what they're investing into. So, he's not saying because Kevin doesn't know anything about investing, he should go bury the 500,000 in his backyard in coffee cans.

I don't want to do that. >> I know, but I just want to make sure you understand. So, we're we we teach an investing plan. I'll let George walk you through it. Uh, I can tell you that you're going to need to go to ramseolutions.com when this call is over and click on the smartvetor pro tab. Um,

and you need to go interview. I recommend two to three at a minimum. Uh, and these are professionals that we have vetted. Uh, they will teach you. And what Dave wants you to do in those situations is you find somebody that explains your situation well explains uh

what the investment strategy is that we

agree with and and then you understand

it to the point and you go oh I understand this completely this makes total sense and you like them and then

you choose to go with them and and so that's what what you need to do but George explain the overall investing strategy here and then uh I know you got a plan for what they need to do with this money. >> Sure. So, the one thing we say is just wait. Don't make any big financial decisions on day one. Just park that money in a high yield savings account.

Is it going to come to you just all in cash?

>> Yes. >> Okay. It's not like real estate that you have to sell or anything like that.

>> No. >> Okay. Great. >> It's going to be going to be straight cash. He >> Okay. He had 10 nieces and nephews and he split his inheritance up and I I

think we're going to get between 500 and $700,000. >> Yeah, that's quite the legacy >> would be our for >> So I I would wait and breathe and get a good dream team in your corner and like Ken mentioned an investment advisor is one of them. I'd get a good tax CPA in your corner as well to help you understand tax implications of all this.

Um, and then I would be focused on knocking out that mortgage. That's only going to allow you guys to retire with even more breathing room, right? What's that payment every month?

>> Uh, it's about uh about 1,500 bucks.

>> Okay. So, boom. You just gave yourself a $1,500 raise in retirement.

>> Well, yeah, I understand. I understand what I want to do, but we are planning to move out of the state when we retire.

We want to be close by our grandkids, so we're moving to Sou Falls, uh, South Dakota. >> Okay. Uh so so that that that's the

quandry that that we're in.

>> Well, if you if you pay off your house, it's not like the money disappears.

You're going to get it in the net sale of the house. And in the meantime, you freed up 1,500 bucks.

>> Yes. >> So that's still not a bad move to give you guys some peace as you move and then you can, you know, get your next house in cash. Is that the plan?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> I don't want any I don't want any mortgage. >> I love it. >> I want to pay everything. >> How old are you guys?

>> Uh we're 65. Okay, so let's just play this out. You pay off the mortgage, that's 160, right? And you buy your next house in cash. Let's say there's $500,000 sitting there left over. You can do what you want with, right?

>> Mhm. >> And you don't need it for your actual income right now. So, let's say you could just invest it into the stock market. If you invested in some good growth stock mutual funds, an index fund, and you let it ride from 65 to 72, that 500,000 would double in

those seven years with the historic rate of return we've seen in the market.

>> I'd love that. >> That's if you did nothing. This is not like you're not playing stocks. You're not day trading. This is in like an S&P 500 index fund. It just tracks the top 500 companies in the market. You buy, you know, $500,000 worth of shares.

Historically, if you get an average rate of return of 10%. So, like this year, we're already at, you know, if you look at the last 6 months, it's in the 20some percent. Year to date, probably closer to 15 or 16%. Some years it might be down, some years it might be up. So, there's a little bit of a roller coaster, but you're not going to lose your lunch either if you just leave it invested.

>> Uhhuh. >> And so, that would be my goal for you guys. If you don't need the money, just let it sit at least in an investment account. And uh our one of the Smart Investor pros can guide you through that, help you understand it.

Again, I want to make sure that you know what you're doing and not just going, "Well, George told me to, so I'm going to do that." But having a good dream team to fill in the gaps and moving with patience and always going, "Are we doing this with wisdom?

Are we going to use this money to grow it? Are we going to give more? Are we going to spend more?" All of that needs to be part of your plan so that you don't have any financial regrets with this.

>> Okay, >> there it is. Kevin, here's the deal.

Final word on this to encourage you.

Fear goes away when we have clarity and knowledge. But when we're not sure about something, it's fuzzy, foggy, uh we don't know. The fear of the unknown is terrifying. So that fear that you have is going to go away when you get a bunch of knowledge and clarity. And uh George is giving you a good plan on that. So excited for you in your future. Uh I know you're going to do good things with that money. >> I hope he can leave a legacy to his

>> nieces, nephews, children. I mean, that'd be pretty cool, too. I was sitting there thinking this is a really nice uncle because I love my nieces and nephews, but I'll be honest with you.

>> It's not going to them. >> I don't know if I'm giving him any money. I don't know. >> Sorry, Ken's nieces and nephews.

>> That's not a final decision. I'm just sitting there going, is that part of my >> You better suck up to Uncle Ken starting now. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

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Our scripture today, Galatians 5:22 and

23. The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

Our quote of the day from Theodore Roosevelt. There is only one quality worse than hardness of heart, and that is softness of head.

Just let that sit there. I'm not sure. I love Teddy. And normally I I think when

he says softness of head, that means somebody who's not um not the brightest.

Yeah. Yeah. Because if you call someone hard-headed that oh that means they're stubborn. So I think he means stubborn is a strength and if you're not by the way uh call back >> uh for you uh >> trivia lovers >> to the astute listeners out there.

>> Yeah we had a call earlier. I forget the lady's name. She was from Springfield, Missouri. And I said uh I think

President Truman might have been from Springfield but I wasn't sure. And I was right both times. >> I fact checked him. The only >> born in Missouri. >> Yeah. but not from Springfield. And I bailed myself out by saying I'm not sure. >> Lamar. >> Lamar, Missouri. There you go. Uh, do

you know what quote Henry Trum uh, Harry Harry Truman is most famous for?

>> Couldn't tell you. For a million bucks.

>> I bet you know it cuz you can finish it.

If you can't stand the heat, >> get out of the kitchen.

>> Harry Truman, ladies and gentlemen, >> it doesn't feel like a Truman quote to be honest. It feels like a movie quote.

>> Well, see, because it's that good. And I'm trying to smarten up the younger generations that have not been taught well in class because this is clearly a generational thing. >> Well, they don't know their way around the kitchen, so clearly they couldn't stand the >> There is that too. >> They're door dashing everything. >> Yeah. Uh Jake is up in Boisee, Idaho. Is

it Jake? Is it Boise or Boisey?

>> Uh boy. >> That's what I thought sound. >> Yeah, I used to do the Z and now I got I went to the C. Boisey. All right. Very good. How can we help?

>> Okay, so we live in a 1945 farmhouse.

Um, it's kind of a it's two-bedroom, one bath. We do have a bonus room, but for some reason it's not counted as a room.

We have five children. We're kind of out

of room. So, we were looking to sell, buy something bigger. Um,

it ain't moving. It isn't moving. So, we were thinking about doing a construction loan and building, you know, a modest 2,000 ft house. We

didn't know how smart it would be to do that.

>> Well, can you do that if you don't sell the current house?

>> Um, I think it'd be really tough.

>> Do you guys have any debt right now?

>> Yes, we do. Only we have the only debt we have is a camp trailer.

>> Okay. The land is paid off. Vehicles.

>> Okay. >> Land is paid off. Yep. >> Good. And how much do you have in savings? >> Um I think we have 1,100 in high yield. So pretty much nothing. >> What about the camper? Is it worth anything?

>> About 16. >> What do you owe on it?

>> About 16.

>> I think I think it books at almost 20, but it's scraped up on the side a little bit. >> Well, you got to get rid of that. >> Doesn't hurt nothing. You got to get rid of that cuz that thing is only devaluing and you need to get that out of your life. That'll free up how much a month?

>> Uh two $22.

>> That's real money, I'm guessing. What's your income?

>> 63.

>> Yeah, dude. >> George, am I right? We're getting rid of the camper today. Let's get Let's sell that. >> That's one step toward this. But the the problem is if you build this thing, you get the construction loan, you convert it to a traditional loan. I'm scared you can't afford it. >> Well, no. Not with the current house.

What What are you listing the house for?

>> 570.

>> How many squares? >> 13 acres. >> Okay. But how big of a house is it?

>> I think they say that the livable square footage is 1,100 or 1,200, something like that. >> Whoever bought it, would they just tear it down and and build something else on it or use it for other things?

>> Yeah, they would just tear it down. But they're not wanting to spend 570 on the property and then turn around and do that. I have a I have a dumb question.

I'm sure you've thought of this, but I'll ask. Can you expand the current

house?

>> Probably could, but we're a little bit leerary of it because it was built in 1945, and I don't think the foundation is all that. >> You just want to start from scratch to be safe.

>> I I want to add on to it, but I was advised by a cousin of mine who is a builder, >> and he said, "That wouldn't be very smart. >> You may as well just build a new house and tear it down." Ohhuh.

>> Because he said that you're still in a 1945 farmhouse with a foundation that

was poured in 1945. He said, "So anytime you go to sell that, they're going to look at that." >> Have you looked into, and I'm only going through stuff that I would go through if I were you. Have you looked into a foundation company to see what the real reel is to get under there and take a look and go, "Okay, what kind of shape is it in?" And then what would it take to get it up to up to par?

>> Yeah. I actually thought about um because I used to work in excavation, I thought about just getting an excavator and digging around, but they're 7 foot

tall walls cuz it's a basement.

>> That's not my recommendation. My recommendation was getting somebody out there who's a specialist in this and let's get a real picture of what we're dealing with because here's my >> I was just going to dig around it and then have them look at it. >> Oh, okay. Gotcha. Well, you don't have any money to go buy money. >> Oh, I see. Yeah. The issue is as it stands currently with basically no payments, we can't put away a dollar.

And so I'm real nervous to get into this project only to realize you can't afford it and afford the ongoing, you know, payments that come along with that. It's going to sink you guys. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I kind of already knew that. >> So the the question mark is income. Can we get the income up to be able to

>> stay where I am until we grow?

>> What would it cost to rent in your area?

Uh something like this is not even heard of and we farm. So um >> is the farm producing income?

>> Yeah. Not much, but it it pays it pays

more than double of taxes and irrigation. >> So when you said we're not we can't leave here until we grow, what did you mean by that?

>> Oh, I thought you asked me about my income going up. >> Sorry. Yeah, your income go I apologize.

Yes, we're looking for variables that can shift here.

>> Yes, I just I worked at the company for a month and got they gave me as big a raise as they possibly could, >> but we are bidding on a bunch more contracts right now and when we get those then I will go into the general manager position and I will get another increase. >> What kind of work do you do? >> Right now I have no no landscaping.

>> Can you do side work and and build up some more income? Because my point is this, as George said, you building a house and going to get a construction loan is is a no non-starter. That doesn't make any sense. And yet, it's going to also cost money to expand your current home >> because you need more income in order to fix your living situation.

>> And the more income is step one, then we start figuring out, do we renovate? Is that even doable? Is it even feasible with the foundation and all the things with a 1945 house or is it But here's

the problem. If no one's going to buy your current house, you are in fact stuck with it and then your best move is to renovate it and you get to keep 13 acres and all the things. I'm leaning towards trying to renovate it and and >> otherwise you're lowering the price until someone's willing to buy and use that cash to buy something and you know, >> but more income has got to happen.

>> Either way, the income needs to go up.

But the question mark is, do we keep it and try to do something with it or just keep lowering the price until we sell it? Are you working with a good real estate pro on this?

>> Yeah. >> What are their thoughts? >> Sold me this house and helped me sell my first house. >> Why do they think it's not moving?

>> Um, he doesn't know. He said it's kind of blown his mind. I think it's high personally, but I do too. >> There's no comps out here. >> I I think it's crazy. It's over half a million dollars. I understand it's 13 acres, but it's a rinky dink house. It's super small. >> They're not buying it for the house. So again, >> got a renovated tiny home on it, >> which isn't going to add a lot of value.

It's got a shop on it.

>> No, that's not going to add anything to it. That thing's going down. >> How old are your kids?

>> My oldest is 11. Youngest is four.

>> Well, the 11y old can live in the tiny house. That'll free up some room.

>> One problem solved. He'll love it out there. Just put it in the backyard. You can see him. >> She She She won't love it out there.

>> She She will not. Never mind. Never mind. Your smoothest, easiest path out of this is to keep lowering the price and you sell it for 500 instead of 570 and now we live to fight another day and the dream of building on this land we'll have to put away for now.

>> Yeah. >> But because you got five kids in a in a dilapidated house that just worries me to keep living like this for another few years. >> Yep. Got to get >> kind of talking it down. It's not actually in that bad a shape but >> Well, but the point is you got to lower the price. I think their instinct kids in 1100 square ft. Something's got to give. >> Yeah. Woo.

>> It ain't a shack, but it might be close to it once you get seven people living in there. >> Yeah, that's tough stuff. Oh, good

stuff. Wow. Thanks for the call. All right, folks. Well, remember, there's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 10. Are You Investing in Tomorrow or Robbing It? | September 24, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we are here to help you

transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Ken

Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and host of the runaway hit on Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat. He's my co-host today.

Open phones here at 888255225.

Joseph is in Orlando. Hi, Joseph. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes. So, I'm in the current situation, but um before I get into it, I just want to say I'm a big fan. I've been watching your show for quite a while. Um, >> thank you. >> Yes. Um, so I am 31, my wife is 26.

Um, and I read the Total Money Makeover

book, and I want to pretty much get out

of debt. I have about, well, we have

about 62 65,000 in debt, and I'm trying to convince her to stop using credit cards.

But um she just doesn't want to. She

keeps saying that she wants to get points that there's benefits to it and

I'm trying to convince her that um we need to try to stick to a budget and you know to get rid of the debt. I had a plan to get rid of it in about two and a half years but we keep pretty much we're

just stuck in baby step one. I can't even get like a thousand for the emergency savings and uh we keep um running out of money and then having to

use the emergency fund. And >> how long have you all been married?

>> Um it's we're about three and a half years of marriage. >> And what what's your household income?

>> Um together it's 115.

>> Okay. Well, you did the classic man

mistake.

Women seldom make this mistake, but men often make it in this exact conversation. The man mistake that I have made in my younger years. I don't do it anymore. And the one that you made was you read something and got some new information that she doesn't have.

Became inspired and then walked into the room and announced what we're going to do instead

of talking about why we're going to do

it. So, let's start again. Walk into the

room and say, "Honey, I'm sorry. I goofed up. I'm really excited about this

idea of getting out of debt because I'm really terrified of where we are right now. We make $115,000.

We owe $65,000 in debt. We can't even

keep $1,000 in our account because we do

such a bad job of handling money." And this is terrifying me.

I need your help to look at that and dream with me about what it would be like to have no debt, to have a plan

that we are both in agreement on on

where we're going, and then we will decide how we're going to get there together.

When she when she says, "Yes, I believe being debtree is the shortest path to wealth." Now she's caught up to you,

but you're you're also the only one doing the budget. You're the only one handling the money. And she's acting like a little girl over here. And daddy's got her on an allowance and he gave her some credit cards. Now he's trying to take them back.

>> Um I mean >> the credit cards represent the credit cards represent unlimited. I get to do whatever the hell I want to do. That's what they represent.

and you're trying to take that away from her with no reason because she doesn't she doesn't why would I why would you ever give up that? I mean, you ought to just run for Congress, you know, >> and so, um, just spend everything in sight, you know, there's no reason. But if we're going to both be grown-ups and we're both going to look at a future we both want to attain and we both are willing to pay a price to get to that future, then easily we start doing away with credit card usage because it's not going to take you to your future.

And no air no no millionaire ever in the history of man has ever said, "You know, Dave, the way I made all my money was airline miles." >> Right? >> That's the biggest load of bull crap I ever heard in my life.

>> Yeah. I mean, I've had difficult conversations with her before and uh I

sort of let her know like how much we have in debt. Like we want we both want to get out of debt, but um I don't

>> I know I >> You want to get out of debt? She doesn't want to get out of debt.

>> I mean, she says she she wants to, but

she doesn't get want to get on board. I want to use credit cards and spend money we don't have and blow up the budget is not somebody that wants to get out of debt.

>> Yeah, >> that's not true. Okay. I I want what I want. And if if we can also get out of debt while I get what I want, then that's okay. >> What What Let's circle back because I I I've got a thought process for you, but one question. What makes you I know what Dave says and Dave's right. She didn't want it bad enough. Uh but what makes you tell us that she wants to get out of debt? What response has she given you to make you say that?

>> Um, well, when we talk about like our future and like even um including kids

into, you know, to start having kids, um, one of the things she says is she wants to get out of debt first before we attempt. >> Okay, great. >> So, all right. So, the the Dave's right though, she doesn't want it bad enough to change what she's doing.

So, uh, here's a here's a process that I think will work, but you're going to have to stay with it. And you don't do them all at the same time, but you're going to have to talk to her. As Dave said, go back to the example Dave gave you. Hey babe, I apologize.

I threw this at you too quick. Let me tell you about how I feel and why I feel this way. And you're going to talk about the problem of being broke, the problem of debt, and you got to get really detailed with her. Don't try to solve it, but you got to get her to a point where she begins to feel as bad about the debt as you feel.

bad about this problem, >> it's keeping us from having >> then you start talking about, "All right, here's the solution." And then that's the second part. Solution only comes after someone agrees with you on the problem. Then the last piece is here's the reason for the solution. able for you to come home and and not uh work outside the home, to have kids, for us to be millionaires, uh you know, and things like that. So, that's the process. You got to bring her along. And I just think you jumped it too quickly.

>> Yeah. You need to dream in HD, highdefin

dreams, detailed dreams, and then immediately the human brain starts saying, "If that's my desired future, what must be true for me to get there?" >> And one of those things is very simple.

Quit spending money. you don't have using credit cards. Hello, that's obvious then. Okay, but behavior is a language. Her behavior says she's not

willing to do that right now. Her behavior by defending the defenseless

stupid credit card is is um that's the

behavior that says I'm not on board. She can say with her mouth she's on board, but her actions scream that she's not.

And so the two of you need to have a dream that is so big and so clear and so

detailed that you're willing to sacrifice to get to that dream. And you're willing to pay a price to get to that dream. And that's living on a detailed written budget. That's not borrowing money. That's not using credit cards. That's changing the way you handle and talk about money in your house. It's all of those things. Joseph,

thank you, sir.

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[Music]

[Applause]

Brooke is in West Virginia. Hi, Brooke.

How are you?

>> Hi. I'm doing okay. How are you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

>> Um, well, it's been kind of crazy recently. Um, we sold our house just a month ago and we got about 65,000

now. And we just kind of decide if it's better to put most of all um or just or

none toward a new a new mortgage in this

market. That's just crazy. Um or if it's better to go towards paying off school loans and a car. Um half of my husband's

school loans are like significant higher than the other half. He's got We're breaking up something fierce. Can you get to where your phone actually works?

>> Can you hear me right now? >> Yes, ma'am. The uh So, how much debt do you have?

>> Um 75,000 in school loans and then about

14 in car. >> Okay. And you have 65k in your pocket from the sale of the house?

>> Yes. >> You have any other money saved?

Um, we have maybe like $1,000 in cash

just for like an emergency or something.

But >> my husband is um also getting ready to start a new job where over the next year he'll be able to make up to about uh

20,000 more than he's currently making.

>> That's wonderful. Okay.

>> Yes, we're very relieved about that transition. >> So, what will your household income be at that point?

Well, we're basing our budget off of our last household income. >> No, ma'am. I'm asking what your household income will be at that point.

>> Oh. Oh, sorry. I was thinking budget. Um household income at that point would probably be anywhere between 65 and 70,000 a year. We're a single um income family. >> Okay. So, he was making 50. Now, he's going to be making 70.

>> Yes. But it it goes over time. So, he's he's actually going to be uh still making 50 for a bit and then like every

few months it's going to go up with um training. >> Oh, I see. And how long before he gets to 70?

>> It would be a year. Yeah. So, it it wouldn't be >> And why did you sell the house?

>> Um well, we were trying to move to be closer to family. Um there were some things that just weren't working for where we lived. >> He took a job near family. this new job.

>> Uh well, yes. I mean, he well, he was already working at the um the place where he's working uh now is going to be

at the same place where he was working before. It's a hospital, so he didn't have to like change. >> Okay. So, how far away were you before?

And how far what is closer? Are you were

you a long way from the hospital before?

No, it was about 20 minutes, but we were

just we are in the opposite direction of where everything is. Things are kind of more semi-ural around here. And so we

wanted to we have young kids. We wanted to be able to be like around more family. Um >> how far away was your family?

>> They were not as far as um like they

were probably 10 to 20 minutes in the opposite direction. So to be anybody it was 30 to 45 minutes maybe.

>> I'm so confused. Okay.

>> What was the plan? What before this call started? >> Yeah. Before Before you called me, what were you going to do?

>> Uh we were thinking about putting 20%

down on a mortgage, pay off the car, and

put the rest toward the loan.

>> Okay. And and buy a house for how much money?

We were looking uh we don't want to go

up to 150. We were actually hoping to go as low as possible.

>> What did your other house sell for?

>> It sold for 129.

>> Okay. All right. So, you're moving up in house and you're moving while you're in debt and that was your plan.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right.

Uh yeah. Yeah, I mean 20% down and uh pay off the car, put them some towards the student loan, make the move happen. Um

and yeah, I guess you accomplish all your goals that way with the $20,000 extra then we tear into the student loan and finish it off, right?

>> Um we Sorry, 20,000 extra.

>> Yeah, you have $20,000 extra income by the end of the year. >> Oh, yes. Okay. Yeah, let's let's use that and anything else we can squeeze out of the budget and him working extra.

How many kids have you got?

>> Uh, two. >> Okay. And you working extra? Are you working from home?

>> So, everybody starts working. Everybody starts making money and we clean up this freaking mess.

Otherwise, you don't move up in house.

You go rent something cheap and you clean up this freaking mess. One of the two. >> Okay. >> But you need to clean up the freaking mess.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. period. If you put 20% down, that that's not a bad plan. What you propose is not a bad plan. I don't like the idea that, hey, I'm going to move up in house >> and that's going to get me out of debt. That doesn't get you out of that. That put you in more debt. Okay? So, but it's not a huge amount. It's not going to keep you from, you know, from winning overall.

Uh, but I I think both of you commit to working as many hours as possible, creating as much income as you can create in the following 12 months after you buy this house. And the price we're going to pay for this move is we're going to commit to cleaning up this mess fast. >> Fast. >> Okay.

>> And that that's the tradeoff. Okay. All right. We get a new house, but we're not we're not buying new furniture and we're we're not going to renovate the house and we're not going to be doing a bunch of work to the house.

We're going to be getting out of debt.

>> Yeah. The only thing I'm looking at here is so you've we've we've coached her well, but I want people to make sure that they're always paying attention to the cost of your education versus the income possibilities that are

clearly clearly tied to this degree.

Here's an example where you got a guy who's been making 50K. He's got a chance now to move up, but $75,000 student loan

to get into a $50,000 job. I and again I

don't know all the details but I just think we've got to start looking at this stuff and that's what kind of gave me pause. I feel bad but this is the message and so I'm kind of this is more of a preemptive for a large audience.

>> Be smart about what you think you should be spending in return for what you think you're getting. >> Education, especially when you're taking out student loans, which we tell you not to do, is not a luxury. It is an investment

>> and an investment should have a return on investment. So if you spend $250,000 getting a master's degree in sociology and you take a job with the state as a social worker making 38 grand, that's the definition of stupid.

That's just dumb. Okay? You can make 38

grand working at Target stocking shelves

and you don't have to have a master's degree and $250,000 in debt to do it. So just don't make that trade. That's Ken's point. It's a bad trade. >> Yeah. I just think this >> study something. If you're going to spend the money to go to college, study

something that's going to give you a return on investment. Get a degree.

Develop a skill. Develop a knowledge base in a career field that's going to cause you to make a lot of money because you're spending a lot of money to get this knowledge base. >> Yeah. >> The degree doesn't it's your your degree is worthless, but the knowledge base has a value.

you know, actually having a masters in accounting is absolutely zero value. But

knowing how to do accounting at the mast's level so that you can get a CPA, well, that has a value, a marketplace value. The the actual knowledge base has value. >> Yeah. I also want to call back to something you said here, uh, because Brook's still listening here.

The renting option I thought was a really good call out because they're in a uh they're in an area where housing is not very expensive although it's relative to the incomes there and in this situation renting for a bit may not be a bad idea to clean up this debt and he gets the raise. So I I like that you brought that up as a possibility.

>> That's where I was >> and clean it all up. That that's the kind of thing a lot of people do. Mhm.

>> Uh the other one is not I think that's wiser to Ken's point. Uh the other one's

not in the stupid column. It's just not as smart as that is. >> Yeah. >> But it's a two it's a double move which I kind of think you've already moved again anyway. I can't figure out as her where she's living but they already sold the house. They've already got the 65.

Right. So where are you living pretail?

I got a feeling mama's basement but we'll see. Okay. So um we'll just figure it out from there. But either way that that's I didn't ask so I don't know.

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>> Cassandra is with us in Ohio. Hi Cassandra. How are you?

>> Hi. I'm doing okay, I guess.

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help you ma'am? Yes. So, my husband was a CDL

driver for a company and he um and was

fired at his workplace for workplace gossip and petty reasons. He's currently working three jobs and at a time where there should be so many jobs for CDLA drivers and there isn't. Um we've been struggling and we're wondering how we can put our money to good use.

>> Um how how long ago was he fired? He was

fired August 28th.

>> Oh, okay. Couple weeks back. All right.

Y >> All right. Well, I disagree. There's lots of CDL drivers positions out there.

They're everywhere. >> They are dying >> for CDL help >> out there. >> He just hasn't found it.

>> Right. >> Yeah. >> We we had uh got in contact with a few different uh CDL places. um whole bunch

of different transportation services and they said that they couldn't hire him because he was fired for he was fired.

So they can't hire him unless he's had a job for a year afterwards.

>> That's not true. >> Which >> he wasn't fired he wasn't fired for any kind of driving violation >> is what you told me.

>> Nope. >> He was fired because he's running his mouth, >> right? >> Yeah. Okay. Has he learned his lesson on that? by the way.

>> Um he lives he worked in a private

business with um cultural differences

and the workplace gossip wasn't his fault. He didn't have anything to say on it. He wasn't even talking about it. He had a few people that did not like him for him having basically a hard to work with work ethic.

>> You're a sweet wife.

I don't think you got the real story and you believed it.

>> But anyway, I'm going to ask him if he's on the phone, did he learn his lesson or not? But it shouldn't keep you from getting a driving job if you're running your mouth, >> right? It >> he did not he did not hit something. He did not wreck something. He did not hurt someone. He did not get convicted of a DUI. All of those things are things that keep you from disqualify you from using your CDL.

>> Correct, >> Coleman? >> Yeah. I I think here this is where he can't do the traditional applying for jobs thing because of this type of situation when people don't have the whole story uh or they're worried or they're trying to protect themselves. There's always a filtering whether it's a human filter or AI.

So in this case, what he has to do is this is him working harder than he's ever worked before to make a personal connection with people so they know the story. And he's got to own it, by the way. Like he's got to own it. There is no spin because they people react like Dave reacted and I was feeling the same thing.

I don't want to hear some hard to prove story.

Here's what I learned and you know you eat the humble pie right in front of people and but what they really need is they need somebody they can rely on to get the truck from point A to point B. So this is where he's making every connection that he's ever had. Uh he is working it. It's not just applying online. He is actually sitting down with people. Uh because I'm telling you, if I

were to draw a line, a circle around your house, 30 minutes each way, just total circumference. I'm telling you, there are people who need somebody like your husband that they can depend on to get trucked from point A to point B. But he's got to find it. It's like a scavenger hunt on steroids talking to real people. That's how you get out of this. Now, tell us what he was making

and tell us what he's making with these three jobs.

>> So, he was making $27 an hour with a lot

of overtime.

And that would come to I'm guessing anywhere between 5,000 to 5,500

a month, sometimes less. Um, and with

these three jobs, he's working one job at a remodeling for $15 an hour.

And another job for hauling uh for an

Amish family for hauling produce and

that pays about $7 a pallet which in a

week he can get about $500 from that.

And then um for his other job, he works temporarily until wintertime comes for a

person who does CDL hauling for a uh

like large equipment and that pays $25 an hour and he only gets those jobs

maybe a few hours a day.

>> Okay. So it's only been a couple weeks.

So he's making what? Roughly half of what he was making before.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Right. So >> So that's not why >> there's two two answers to the question.

One is do all the stuff Ken's talking about and go get the new job. Okay. And that means hanging out at a truck stop and walking up to guys at the truck stop and going, "Hey, you know anybody's hiring? I got a CDL.

I'm looking for work." >> Yeah. >> And then you go, "Hey, George." You don't have to tell them you met George 10 minutes ago. George told me you were hiring over here. Okay.

Henry told me you were hiring over here. Okay. And you go knock on the door and you go get the job.

The second part is your original question is you have to prioritize your budget and we take care of necessities.

When we were in the seventh grade, they used to teach a class called civics and they would teach you what are necessities. Food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. So, we have to put food on the table first. And that's not going out to eat. You don't need to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. You're broke. Okay? So, we're buying groceries.

That's it. >> That's all food. And you're cooking from scratch. It's healthier and it's cheaper. Okay.

>> Clothing. You're probably okay. You probably got enough clothes in the closet. The kids probably got enough clothes in the closet to make it a few months. You're probably okay. And if if somebody's got their toe sticking out of one of the shoes, buy some shoes. But really, most people are okay on clothes.

Most people have way okay on clothes.

Okay. The third thing is you pay the rent or the house payment.

So, food and house payment, >> minor purchases of clothing, gasoline in

the car, and car payment if there's a car payment. >> Mhm. >> You got enough coming in to do that, >> right? >> And then some of the other stuff is probably not going to get done right now.

>> But it but you eat, you have a place to live, you keep the lights and water on, keep your utilities going, >> and you keep gas in the car, and he starts looking for a better position.

But I would not let the words come out of my mouth again. I would not speak

this lie over your life that no one's

hiring CDL drivers in your area who have been fired for a non-driving violation.

That is not a true statement and you should never say that again. You should say, "We haven't found the person yet who is hiring a CDL driver who has been fired for gossip, but they are around here somewhere. We just haven't found them yet." And that is a true statement.

>> And uh it's and it's hard to find them.

That's a true statement. I'm okay with that. But and we're out here scratching and clawing. That's a true statement.

And he's not lazy. He went and got three jobs. Way to go, dude. Yeah.

>> What a good guy. >> Okay. And um but I would never say in

the interview ever again, cultural differences. And he worked hard and they didn't so they hated him and fired him.

That I would not say stuff like that.

That doesn't that's not very appealing to a potential employer. Say, "Listen, I was accused of gossip. I may have said something I shouldn't have said. I don't know. It's not who I am. I'm a hardworking guy. Let's go. Let's go drive some truck." And I would just leave it at that, man. >> That's right. >> Just own it a little bit and move on.

But I wouldn't try to throw it back on them that they cultural different then

they're trying to figure out, well, what cultural differences have you got with me? You know, like hard work and what's your cultural differences trying to figure be better off going, I worked for or worked with a couple buttholes and I was a bigger butthole apparently. People buy that. They go, "Okay, >> I've been in that situation, right? >> That could be true, too. >> They can resonate and go, all right, you had a you let it get to you." >> Yeah, we had we had a uh we had a little contest and I lost. Yeah.

So, you know, it's that that that's a real thing. Okay. I can I can buy that as a potential employer.

>> But the great news is CDL is in great

demand. >> Yeah. The great news is that you don't

have a driving violation that caused this. >> It's not in great demand. Very hard to get a job if you tore something up or hurt somebody. >> Y >> very hard. >> By the way, heavy equipment a lot of times CDL people can get those jobs because again, uh they've done through so much qualifying. So I'd be looking driving around everywhere where you see this stuff. You'd be surprised. But >> when you're delivering some of that heavy equipment, >> ask if they need somebody to drive it. >> That's right. Yeah.

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John's in Raleigh. Hi, John. How are you?

>> I had a tail be wagging. Dave, how are you? >> I'd be great. Better than I deserve.

What's up?

>> So, we are facing a a question on what

to do with our home. So, for background, we bought this house in May of 2024, and at the time, our take-home was about 10,000 a month, and our monthly payment was between 25% and 30%. as y'all would

suggest. But, uh, some things have changed in our life since then.

Primarily, we have a new baby. So, she's four months old, and my wife has gone to part-time instead of full-time. So, our take-home pay has gone from the 10,000 down to about 7,000.

This makes our um uh monthly payment be

around 40% of our take-home. And we've

also had a few other uh new circumstances such as like our our neighbors have completely gone off the rails it seems. And um

we're really considering moving both to

lower monthly payment as well as to uh

maybe get into a slightly better situation.

We have identified three options that we would like to do. So, the first being just stay where we are and refinance when rates drop and try and uh try and just lower that monthly payment, maybe even recasting our mortgage because we have a fairly uh significant amount of cash liquid right now that we could uh put a significant down payment on there to lower the monthly payment or to move to a smaller situation where we'll have that around that 25%.

>> Okay, you make seven. How long before you make 10?

Um probably in the next four to five

years, three to four maybe.

>> Okay.

What does your wife do for a living?

>> So she is in data analysis. She works

for an agrochemical company and uh so she does that from home which has been very convenient with the baby.

>> Okay. But she's gone to part-time hours.

She has and she would she's expressed that she would like to to just be full-time stay-at-home mom because it's it's just been wonderful having the baby and something we really enjoy and if we

can make that work financially that would be nice.

>> How much cash do you have?

>> Uh about 150,000 liquid.

>> What do you I want >> uh 360. >> Where'd you get the 150?

Um, so a little bit we've we were been

very frugal over the course of our life, but uh I want to >> Why didn't you put it down on the house in the first place?

>> Um, I think we were a little scared. I mean, we we were very conservative.

>> And now you figured out what to be scared of is the payment, not the cash.

>> Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

>> What's your interest rate?

Uh 7.375, which is not great.

>> Yeah, you can get a 57 now.

>> Yeah, >> that's a point and a half shift.

>> Yeah, I'd refinance it and put the 150 on it and just stay there. Unless the neighbors are so crazy that you have to move.

>> Maybe hold a little cash back to build a fence. I don't know.

>> True. True. Yeah. I mean, it's been

multiple arrests and >> large evergreen trees. I don't know. I mean, >> yes.

that grow fast. >> I mean, is there any safety issues for you? Do you fear for your family safety because of all this nonsense? >> Um, there there have been times, I mean, explosions that have shaken our house.

And >> are they running a crack house over there? >> Yes. >> For real? >> Yeah. Yeah. For real. It was >> What price is your house?

>> It It was 500,000. And this is not an issue when we bought it.

>> It's I'm not speaking for Dave. This is not an official show response. My response is if I knew that what you're telling me, I'd be out.

>> I'm not going to keep my family there.

>> It takes one crazy night. >> The whole thing could explode.

>> Yeah. >> For real. >> There's a there's a little bit of a uh change. There's a new owner. Somebody bought it, but they're allowing the guy that continued to live there to continue as a living estate. He's >> Well, then it's still a problem >> on the on the precipice of death. But

yes, so >> he's on the precipice of death and he's running a crack house. What is this?

Breaking Bad.

>> It's It could be a half hour show right here. >> Yeah. I'm just I'm hearing this. This is amazing. >> Well, if you think your family's in danger, it's a no-brainer. Mic drop. I'm out of there. Okay. If you think you're you can outlive the guy and outlast him

and survive and uh he's either going to blow himself up or die or whatever is happening to him. Good lord. Um, and you

want to stay there, then recast the mortgage. But I wouldn't recast the mortgage and then move two months later.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> That's throwing good money after bad. If you recast the mortgage, you're staying.

>> And can we recast the mortgage and get the lower interest rate or >> No, you just have to refinance. It's not a recast. You refinance. You reset the mortgage. You refinance it on new 15year, start again with 150 more down

and then suddenly you can afford the payment.

>> Yeah, for sure. That's if you want to stay there. If you don't want to stay there, that's okay. And yeah, there's nothing wrong with either option moving down. Uh she does not like the house

enough to be willing to work a few hours a day to keep it. She doesn't like it

that much. Yeah. I forgot to ask how she feel about this the nuts next door. I

I'm telling you right now, Stacy would have already made that decision for me.

>> You'd be done, huh? >> Well, yeah. It's just why play with fire

if it's as bad as he says and I believe him. >> I I >> I just don't get it why you would leave your family there. >> Yeah. I I if if you think you're in danger, you're out of there that instant. I mean, I don't know how it

sounds very bizarre. Yeah. Yeah. But if you're in danger, you should leave. No question. All other parts of the conversation aside, very simple. If you're in danger, and track crackouses do explode. The whole thing can blow up.

I mean, it's very explosive. So, >> yeah. Um I >> if I have a wife at home with a newborn baby and that kind of stuff is going on, you just never know when it spills over beyond their >> I have any hope that the guy's going to be gone in a short period of time, that's different. But short being a month or two, I I can deal with it for a month or two.

But but if I think he's going to I have deal with this for three years, no. Uhuh.

>> Yeah, >> I agree. I agree with you. I'm not arguing with that. >> Very interesting.

>> Wow. >> I mean, what I would put up with didn't have on my bingo card this morning.

Yeah. >> There there's that rule. You know, what I would put up with is very different than what Stacy would put up with. And that's the issue. You know, it's like if she >> Happy wife, happy life. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Safe wife, happy life.

>> There's that, too. >> That one, too. Yeah.

>> I just I'm afraid my wife would shoot back.

>> No, here's what Sharon would do. Sharon would walk over there and knock on the door and have a word with the young man and not and not in a mean because she's not a mean person. She's a straight shooter, but she's not mean. But I see her just kind of wagging her finger.

>> Young man, >> you're not making good life choices.

>> Steel Magnolia here. Whezzy is knocking on your door next door, right?

>> Yeah. And he probably listened to her.

>> Yeah. He's probably scared to death if he knows what's good for him. >> That's right.

little little East Tennessee fable. She tells a story, >> you know, >> about the time that a guy died doing this, you know. It's like, yeah, we used to have a neighbor that did stuff like this and nobody knows where he is now.

>> Now he goes by one leg, Larry. You know, now you know why. >> Can't find the boy. We don't know what happened to him. It's the strangest thing.

>> People have a way of dealing with those things in the holler. >> Breaking Bad is next door. The guy is dying. He sells the house. He's got a life estate and he's doing making crack

next door. Breaking Bad.

>> I didn't see that one today. I didn't see that one coming. >> I was not on my bingo card this morning. >> I thought he was joking until he wasn't.

>> No, he wasn't joking. >> No. >> He said neighbors off the rails, but we didn't know which rails. Yeah, >> right. >> Wow. Bless your heart, man.

>> The more we laugh about this, the more it's not funny. I'd move. I would just move. >> Yikes. >> Yeah, I'd move. And just accomplish several birds with one stone. Yeah.

Heat.

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

Shay is in Idaho. Hi, Shay. How are you?

>> Hi there. I'm glad to be speaking with you, Dave and Ken. I'm very grateful for your ministry. >> Well, thank you. How can we help?

>> Yeah. My question is around the enjoyment side of money. Um my husband and I both struggle with that and

specifically around planning and booking vacations. Um when that time comes around, I just start to feel so much like anxiety and like shame um about

spending so much money on something. um

it's just hard for us and so I was wondering if you had any tips.

>> Well, number one, you have to practice because you've not developed that muscle. Your frugal muscle is overdeveloped and that's how you got here. Thank goodness.

But you've you've not you've not flexed your enjoyment muscle very much while

you were flexing your frugal muscle.

Agreed?

>> Probably. Yeah. >> So, the more you do it, the better you get at it. Um, I speak from experience.

Um, I mean the I I had a hard time buying a decent car, you know, and now I

don't have any trouble at all.

>> That has been our struggle as well.

>> Yeah. The second the second thing is um

I look at ratios

and um the ratios are what percentage of

our world are we actually spending and how does it compare to our generosity?

So we look over here and we say our generosity equals X. >> And this dinky butt little trip we're doing is a small small small percentage

of what we make and what we give.

>> Okay? >> And so my heavenly father who's crazy

about me says if we being evil know how

to give our children good things, how much more so our father in heaven wants

us to have good things. in other words.

And so, um, you know, God's not mad if I

enjoy some of the blessings that he gave me while I'm being generous and while

the amount of money it feels like a lot

cuz it's compared weirdly emotionally to the old days, but as a percentage of my world today, it's a very small amount.

And that that's you know the ratio thing, the generosity thing and uh the

acknowledgement. So another example of that is okay around Ramsey we have 1100

team members. We're in 650,000

square feet.

>> We spend more we we furnish coffee. We

have coffee these grinding coffee machines on every floor, right? That make fresh brewed ground coffee for everybody, right? And they don't pay for it. It's free to all the team members.

We spend more on coffee than I made in a

year most of my life.

That still freaks me out. You know,

>> it's still a problem. But it's just a matter of scale and ratio and but it's a very small percentage of what Ramsay the organization has coming in in revenues.

So obviously we're not being irresponsible. We're not going to have to shut down because of our coffee. It's not even close. And that's the case, I'm guessing. What's your all's net worth, Shay?

>> Um, over a million.

>> And what what is your household household income?

>> Um, my husband makes 120 and I make

around 50. >> So 170 with a million. And what are you talking about spending on a trip?

>> They just get more expensive every year.

>> We know you're talking about spending on a trip. Uh like 12 to 15.

>> Yeah. Well, it's it's absurdly small percentage of your world.

>> Is that you, Hubs? The kids?

>> While we were talking about this, the million dollars made you 12.

>> It's true. >> Who's going on the trip?

>> All six of us, >> right? How old are the kids?

>> Oh, sorry. They're 6, 8, 10, and 11.

>> Okay. As a guy who has who has one in college and another one graduating high school, I'm going to give you two words that I think you need to process the next time you start feeling this shame

about spending money because you've already proven to be frugal. So, here's what I want you to think of. Return versus regret. What's the return on that

investment of the 12 to 15,000 with those six kids 10 years, 20 years, 30

years from now? What's the return on those memories and all of the things all right talk about it >> versus the regret >> if you don't take those kinds of trips with those six and then they get out and and I think return versus regret. You've already proven you're frugal. So Dave and I aren't here worried about you overspending. But you've got to play those words out. What's the return on this trip? And then what would the regret be if we didn't do things like this and had all this money?

>> Yeah. but very few memories and experiences. >> Hey, the the return versus the regret

does not work if you're borrowing the money to do it, boys and girls out there in in radio land. Hello. Okay, good.

Good point. Yes. >> So, this lady's a millionaire making 170 and she's going to write a check for this. Don't use the same argument, I put $12,000 on my credit card cuz Kleman said I would regret it if I didn't go on this vacation. No, you'd be you'd be regretting being stupid if you did that.

>> Thank you for clarifying that. That is within the context of you have cash.

Yeah, you have the money. It's a small percentage of your world. And I suspect your generosity is larger than your trip. >> Mhm. >> I suspect most people who get where you are, their generosity is there.

>> So, hey, you're doing a good job. Enjoy the ride. >> Yeah. >> So, folks, there's uh this is where this falls under the reason I have to stop and clarify that is right. Live like no one else. So that >> that's correct. and she's at the so that later you can live and give like no one

else. >> But the truth is what I spend or what

someone who has accumulated some wealth

is a small percentage of of our wealth

is spent on consumption. Most of it is spent on generosity and reinvestment.

The vast majority of the money that I touch and that flow that God has blessed me to manage for him is either reinvested for future generations or it

is invested in other ways called generosity.

>> Back into the community in some

community somewhere and and some dollar amount. A and those are the two things

that make up the vast majority. The

highest percentage by far of our income

or of our net worth is invested in those

two things. Our consumption though is still ridiculously larger than it was when we

were not making any money and didn't have any money. So it still is emotional. It still feels weird. And you

know, sometimes even friends or dysfunctional family will say stupid things like, "You're so lucky." Well,

that's a dumb butt thing to say. Luck had nothing to do with it.

>> Yeah. Don't say that around, Dave.

>> Luck had Luck comes in dressed with calluses and overalls getting ready to do some work. That's where luck comes in. I know where luck comes from. It's a

sweat. That's where luck comes from. I got your luck. >> Luck's when you win the raffle.

>> Yeah.

looks. When you were smoking crack in the parking lot and bought a lottery ticket and hit it, that's luck. Oh, there we go. >> Okay, but that's luck. But this is not luck. This is work >> and God's blessings. God God just deciding in his infinite grace that he was going to touch us with the tip of his finger and bless the things that we were working on and protect us and allow us

to be sitting here. So, but don't call it luck. It's insulting to God and it's insulting to my calluses.

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[Music]

Allan is in New York. Hi Allan. How are you?

>> Very good. And yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, my wife and I u we're we're both

semi-retired. Uh I retired a while uh

eight years ago and then I work part-time for the company I retired from as a consultant and my wife works a couple days a week. Um we are getting

ready to uh sell our house. It's too big for us, downsize, that type of thing. We have a place in Florida that we're going to go to. But in the meantime, our children are grown and they're all over the world. And we have one in uh Colorado who a while

back they uh asked us, you know, hey,

you know, it' be great if you guys would come out here and stay with us for a while and do things and blah blah blah.

And we said, sure, that'd be great. And they didn't have a house, so they were looking for one. We entered into an agreement that we would uh give them money for a down payment. some they had

half we had some and uh the agreement

kind of fell apart here. Uh now they're

there's some animosity a little bit and

they want to pay us back. We we sent the

the money which was $117,000

as a gift. We did the gifting uh uh

paperwork.

uh they bought their house and uh now they want out and they said they want to pay us back and I'm just concerned about

oh one thing is taxes and I we haven't

kind of really gotten into the meat of it yet. I'm concerned about where they're going to get the money from and I think they'd take it out of their retirement accounts which I don't want them to do and I'm just looking for some advice what your thoughts are.

So, you're partners in the house? It was not a gift. >> No, no, we're we're not partners in the house. >> What's the agreement you're referring to?

>> Well, we they bought a house with a finished basement with, you know, two

bedrooms, bathroom down there, family room, uh different things. Uh you know, and space for us where we could come for

two, three months out of the year.

>> Oh, so the agreement was you could live in the basement 3 months a year.

>> Yeah. And now they don't want you to because they're mad. What What do they What did they get mad about?

>> No, they What happened was they they decid we we told them right up front, we said, "Listen, we need our own space.

There'll be times when we'll get on each other's nerves. We know we don't need to be together 24/7. We'd like a place to cook some meals so we don't have to all eat together all the time." And it we

agreed to that. Then they bought a place and they said, "Well, it's not as big as we'd hoped, so we're going to have to, you know, share that space and that's not going to work." And some of them u

they it it just fell apart. And so now

they're >> What's the animosity?

>> The animosity is u Well, it's really

just that uh uh we said, "Well, no, the

agreement was this." And they said, "Well, no, we we told you that changed." And we said, "No, you didn't." >> And so it grew from there. And they said, "Well, we don't >> So what is your net worth?" >> Um, well, we have we we have no debt.

Um, >> what's your net worth?

>> Uh, I would say almost three million.

Uh, we have absolutely no debt. We have IAS. I have an IRA with 1.5, another one

with 400. >> Yeah. an um >> I'll tell you what I would do.

>> I'll tell you what I would do.

>> I would call him up and say, "I'm really sorry. I entered into a really stupid idea. The whole thing we started doing was a bad idea." Cuz it really was a bad

idea. Your agreement was really a bad

idea. And I would just tell them that it was a bad idea. And you know what? We're just going to forgive the debt and you don't have to let us stay there. We won't ever stay there. We'll stay in a hotel when we come visit or we'll get a condo when we come visit. We've got plenty of money. The money doesn't matter. We don't need a place to stay.

You don't need to live in somebody's basement when you have $3 million.

>> Yeah. >> Bad idea.

>> Yeah, we know now. We >> So, just let them off the hook, dude.

>> Yeah. That was >> a screwed up mess. >> Yeah. It sounds to me like they're paying you back out of spite because of the way that everything went down.

>> Well, they they didn't like you that you argued with them about where the kitchen was. I think you got to be the parents here. >> And I know your feelings are hurt and I'm not. >> This is not about Dave and I taking a position. No, hold on. But you got to hear this. >> Yeah, I am taking a position. >> Well, I'm saying a who's right and who's wrong in there argument. Oh, you are?

>> Yeah. Yeah. This is a dumb idea and it needs to be something. I just It's out of $3 million 117,000. Forget it. Just

walk away. It was a dumb idea.

>> Yeah. Be the parent is what I'm getting at here. And just take the high road and let them off the hook and solve this thing. >> Say, you know what? I'm sorry. I didn't think about how screwed up this was going to be. It's only a h 100red grand.

Screw it. You can have it. I'll just get an apartment. I'll get a condo >> when I come to Colorado or I won't. And I don't worry about it. It's okay.

Forget it. I shouldn't have. You should cuz you should not have asked for this to be the deal. >> Yeah. >> It's a bad idea. Did I mention that?

>> You did clearly. I thought you covered it from every angle.

What what is it you were going to add before I so rudely interrupted you?

>> I did. I that he needs to take the high road here. Okay. >> And and and and my point was saying who did what and all that irrelevant. You as

the parents realize you did a dumb thing and put them in a tough position cuz when they changed your mind, you got your feelings hurt. I think you got to go, you know what? >> Uh let's just let this thing go away and be the bigger person here so that Christmas and Thanksgiving isn't awkward. My gosh. I just think I'm I'm

looking at how and I'll brag on my in-laws for a second. They have for years and years and years. Stacey and I've been married 27 years. They have always taken a position where they never ever wanted us to feel pressure about anything. And I just really admire that.

And I I didn't plan to say that, but I'm telling you as an experience, that's how we want to be. >> You mean you're going to their house for Christmas? You mean you're going to their house for Thanksgiving? That didn't come up, huh?

>> Okay. >> That's right. No, because they've always said you guys do for your family, >> right? Yeah.

And they didn't keep score either. >> I'm telling you, it's a thing. And so, yeah, Sharon and I, we made a decision early on. Uh, when in doubt, go over there, >> right?

>> Yeah. >> Go to the other one. When in doubt, it's okay. It's okay.

That's exactly It's going to work out.

Yeah. But this is only 100,000, Allan.

And really you guys uh you cheaped out

when you thought you were getting a place to stay for 3 months a year for 100 grand. And um and you shouldn't have

done that. It was a bad idea.

>> Yeah. >> And um you you put you put a pressure on something that shouldn't have been there. And it good news is you got plenty of net worth. >> If it was your if it was a big percentage of your world, we might have to discuss how they can pay you back.

But I would not allow them to pay you back. rent a house down the street. Then you got your own place, >> you know, for >> which is even better. You leave the grandkids with them screaming and crying.

You go back to your little >> I think I think this one's broken. I'm going to hand it back to you. I just This one's crying. I >> I don't think this one's working right now.

I think I'll let you handle it. >> Can you imagine David Sharon in in Rachel's basement and you're cooking away down there. You decide it's uh whatever night and it's stinking the whole basement up.

your kids' basement for three months.

>> Well, it would be different if you were broke, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. No, this was like a vacation. >> I know. >> An empty neester. Hey, we'll come spend three months with you. >> Going to come hang out just because I want to. [Music] >> Oh, it's great. >> Oh my goodness. Yeah.

>> Boundaries. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you know and and so it

the other thing is um

words matter.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. A gift is not a gift if it has >> conditions. >> Yeah. >> It is a purchase in of ownership in the basement. It's not a gift. A gift has no

strings attached. So, um but yeah, that

that's the thing. So yeah, Allan, I would just please let just let it go.

Just let it go. Just just play Frozen on

the radio and let it go, you know, just like that. Just over and over and over.

>> True. That's the answer to so many relationship ills, isn't it?

>> Yeah. Just >> let it go. [Music]

ah ah.

Ah.

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Bethany is in Mississippi. Hi, Bethany.

How are you? >> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> My husband inherited an annuity

approximately 20 years ago and it is

currently worth about 233,000.

He is 72. um we keep rolling it over

into different products because we just can't quite come to grips with taking

some of the money out of it and getting a huge tax, you know, implications from

it. >> So, I didn't know if there are any ways potentially that we could if we ever

need the money, which currently we don't. We are completely debtree

and um it's a fixed index annuity and is

there ever any way to like get the money out of there without being hit on taxes so much? >> Before you said that, did you say it's a fixed annuity?

>> It is. >> Oh, gross. Okay.

>> I know. But when you inherit it, what are you going to do? >> Well, you can roll it to a variable annuity without any tax implications.

And a variable annuity is a mutual fund inside of an annuity that will give you over double the return you're getting now. >> Okay. >> So, yeah, you need to talk to one of our smart investor pros and get some help rolling it to a variable annuity.

Variable annuity simply is a a a series

of mutual funds that you can select inside of an annuity. Um, and in your

situation, that's going to be a far superior product. Um the

no there's not any way to take no there but to answer your other part of your question there's no way I know of to take the money out without paying taxes on it >> right >> and so it's a taxable yeah you've not paid taxes on the gains yet and the down

the real negative thing is is you're going to pay ordinary income not capital gains >> so it's it's much like um a traditional IRA traditional 401k when you get ready to take the money out you pay taxes on it at your income tax rate, not at uh

not at uh uh other things. So, um if you

don't need it, uh I probably would simply move it to a variable and because I'm like you, I don't want to pay those taxes, >> right? We just leave it set and then kind of forget it. >> Yeah. Set it and forget it. And and um

uh the problem is when the next generation inherits it, it's also going to be in the exact same situation.

>> So, somebody someday is going to use this money and pay taxes on it.

Okay, that's what I was afraid of

>> under under current tax law as I understand it. I don't know of any way you could do it otherwise. Um,

and the thing is it's not like you can like a a traditional 401k or IRA, you could roll that to a if

you were willing to pay the taxes, you could roll it to a Roth and it would grow from that point tax-free. You don't

have that option here. You can't move it to a Wroth. Right.

>> Um, so it's not going to grow taxree once you get it out. It's going to grow with taxes and once you get it out. So you're gonna get taxed on it and then the next year when you make money, you're gonna get taxed on it again.

>> So that's what we're facing.

>> Yeah, that's the pro. I think I'm leaving it in a variable and just do a do a roll over to that. Um, now the

variable does have three features to it.

I'm not a huge fan of it, but for you it's an excellent situation. Has three features to it that are nice. One is they most of the variable annuities nowadays have um a guaranteed minimum

rate of return which is probably about equal to your fixed.

Okay. So if you put it in mutual funds and they used to make 12 but they only made four, >> they're going to promise you at least five or whatever the number is. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And so the other thing is is that there's a guaranteed principle with most of them. So, if you move 250,000 in and

you leave it in there five or seven years or whatever the number is and it's worth a h 100,000, they're going to guarantee you the 250, the original principal. So, you're not going to lose principal and you're going to get a minimum rate of return. Third thing is

it's just like your fixed annuity. You can name a beneficiary on it and it passes outside of probate. It is not part of your federal income tax or your

federal inheritance tax exemption. And so if you've got a net worth north of 20 million and you're starting to deal with uh inheritance tax problems, then this doesn't come up. It's not a problem. It just goes straight to the beneficiary.

It's not got anything to do with the will either. You can you can't change it with the will. The w the named beneficiary is where it's going to go.

Period. And so select the name of the beneficiary carefully because that's where it's going to go. and uh no probate tax, no uh federal or there is probate tax on it possibly, but there's no federal exemption usage on that. So,

it's really it's got some nice features to it. Uh but by and large, we don't use them. But for you, where you are now, it's the better version than what you got.

Maria is in Hawaii. Hi, Maria. How are you?

>> I'm great, thank you.

>> What's up?

Um, so in 23,

thank you for taking my call, by the way. >> Sure.

>> We lost uh our home in New Laana fires

and um terrifying. Um, >> and everybody was okay. >> Yeah, thank God. Yes. Our family was fine. We lost friends, which will forever be devastating. >> Wow. What a horrible thing to go through.

>> Yeah. It's even after two years, it's still surreal. >> Oh, yeah.

Um but uh we were we're recovering and

we were very blessed that we bought a place. Um but we're trying to get back

to Lahina. Um and we're trying to figure out a house financially we can do it without going in crazy debt. We're almost at retire age and we don't want to spend a million dollars. Well, we don't have it. So, um with that being

said, um we have two wonderful children.

One's in college, out of state, and one is with us and he's going to school, but they're a little too comfortable. So,

I'm trying to put everybody on a budget and um I don't know how to do it.

>> More forcefully than you have been.

>> Yes,

>> absolutely. I mean, what what part of the budget uh is going to the kids or or

because I don't have a line item budget uh for fun stuff for my kids? They they take they take care of that, right?

Unless it's a family activity. So, let's take the college kid. What What's going on in that situation?

>> We pay for everything >> no matter what it is or when it is.

She just started working part-time and

um and I do I do take 100%

responsibility on this. It's our fault. We made their lives very comfortable.

>> Yeah, it is. Yeah. So, the bad news is the good news is uh that you woke up.

The bad news is is not going to be pleasant for them. >> That's right. >> Yeah. >> No. And it already isn't because >> the conversation would sound like this if it was at our house. Okay. Hey, I owe

you an apology.

I let you live in a world that doesn't exist.

>> And I I've realized that and I'm not going to do it anymore. So in the real world there's these things called limitations.

Money is finite. In your world it's not.

And I'm now it's going to be finite starting now. Here's how much I have calculated that you need a month to eat

and to keep a place to sleep. And that's

how much I'm going to send you. I'm going to pay your rent and I'm going to send you this much for food or you're on the meal plan or you're on whatever and this is how much you're going to get. If you want to do anything more than that, you're going to need to work. >> That's right.

>> And they do. They both work. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Quit making excuses.

>> Stop. What you're saying? >> Stop that. >> I don't want to hear how great they are.

>> They're not great. They have no limitations on their spending because their mother is an enabler. Stop it.

Believe it or not, it's not their mother. It's their dad. >> No, it's you.

>> Oh, >> okay. I'm kidding. You're fun. I'm messing with you. Okay. You dare really throw him under the bus there. >> So, what I did was >> I love him dearly, though. >> Yeah. But the two of you, the two of you have to lock arms and say, "We are going to bless our children with a new lesson

that money is finite." >> Okay. >> What we're doing now is not good for them.

Even if it's good for you, even if you can afford it, it's not good for them.

>> And when they run out of money at college, >> they'll go to work. Don't bail them out.

>> No. >> My son, my car is broken.

>> Hey, last year Dave, I got a call from you got a personal problem. >> I got a call from my son. He says, "Hey, Dad, I I got a date." And I was very excited that he had a date. Then he was like, he thought that was going to get the money for the date.

And I said, "You got any money?" He goes, "No, I don't have any money." I said, "Well, >> going to be a cheap date. >> You're not going on a date. >> Yeah. You're going to the library in the park.

>> Frisbee in the park date till you get a job, buddy. >> I don't even think he knows what a Frisbee is. >> Yeah, well, you're cheap. You can get one when you don't have a job.

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Laurel is in Colorado. Hi Laurel, what's up? >> Hi, thank you so much for talking to me.

I really appreciate it. >> Sure. How can we help?

Well, I am in a transition period and

I'm trying to figure out what to do for employment going forward and I was hoping I could get your take.

>> Okay, tell us about it.

>> All right, so um I'm going to go back a little bit in time. Um in 2019, my

husband was diagnosed with an incurable

cancer. And the doctors, we went to

multiple experts and they all said he had about a year to live.

Wow. >> Thankfully, beyond thankfully, um he he

did great. And at about the three and a half year mark, the doctors were all totally stunned and said, "We cannot believe how healthy you are. You are doing great. We see no evidence of cancer having come back." Um and we left

the office feeling like we won the lottery. >> Yeah. >> Like the lottery of life, not the financial. >> Amen. Wow. >> Yeah. What a roller coaster. >> It was amazing. It was >> Yeah. from a death from a one-year death sentence to three and a half years of healing. >> Yes, sir. >> Wow. >> So, you know, we spent the next couple months thinking about, you know, what do you do when life has handed you

this absolute miracle? And we said, you

know what, he's not officially cured until 5 years, and this is the time to just go do

something that is a dream. you know, we um we were almost debtree at that point.

We had good savings. We had jobs that were semi-portable. Um and so we decided

to just spend some of our savings um not knowing how much longer he had and go live on the road for a couple years. So we we traveled the country, we volunteered in national parks, we helped out in different communities, we worked remotely a little bit. Um it was

absolutely amazing. Um, and by some

additional miracle, my husband got um he

got a wonderful job while we were

traveling um where he makes terrific

money um and he can do it fully remotely. So, we've been actually able to instead of pulling money out of our

savings to go do this dream for a little while, we actually socked away a ton of money while we were traveling.

>> What's a what's a ton?

Um about $500,000.

>> Oh, that's a ton. That's good. Way to go. >> And we wiped and and we wiped out all of our debt. So, no debt >> and we almost doubled our net worth. So, >> do you own a house?

>> Um well, that's actually that's the perfect question because that's where I am right now. We just bought a house. We decided it was time to settle down again. Um he was officially declared

cured of his cancer.

>> Awesome. which I could almost cry just saying it. >> Yeah.

>> Um so we are in this amazing place now and we just bought a house that we love.

Um we paid for it with cash because we've been living well below our means and saving money like the Dickens and we don't have any debt because we made a point of paying off all our debt as fast as possible. Um I love your show by the way.

Um so so here I am with my husband having a he has a great job. He's make still making great money. >> What What does he make now?

>> Um he makes maybe between 250 and 300.

It's sort of >> And he's fully remote. And you have a paid for house and no debt.

>> Correct. >> And how much in your nest egg now?

>> Um besides the house, it's about maybe 1.2

million. >> Okay. So you're sitting on uh you didn't I don't think you said how much the house is. How much was the house?

>> Um about 700.

>> Okay. Okay. She got about $2 million net worth. How old are you guys?

>> Um, he's a little older than I am. I'm 49. He's 60.

>> Okay. Okay. Wow. What a great place. I

love your story. >> Oh, I thank you, Lord. I mean, I >> I can't wait for the question. Yeah. So, what in the world? What kind of question can you have? Yeah. This is crazy.

>> Yeah. I almost feel guilty like writing in because I know folks have more serious problems than this. But, um,

here's my situation. I put my career on hold for the last couple years um because I really wanted to do this thing where like we lived our lives for a

couple years because we didn't know if that's all he had. >> Yeah. >> And now that we know we have we have more time like that that black cloud is gone.

You know, we're in this house that we absolutely love. It's our expenses are very reasonable. You know, we we live very modestly. Save a ton of money. Um,

so I actually have a couple options. I'm by trade I'm a lawyer, but I'm also a teacher. >> Um, and >> what do you want to do?

>> Oh, I mean, okay. So, that's >> you. It's like you listen, can I tell you something? You've been setting this up and in setting it up to Dave and I, it's almost like you're embarrassed. So, stop all that and just >> I am I am a little embarrassed.

>> Don't be Don't be Don't be. You're blessed. So, I know you want to do something. What do you want to do? Just say what's at the top of the list and you can give me number two. Well, give me number one and give me number two. What do you want to do? Say it, Laurel.

>> Okay, so I have I have three ideas.

>> Give me three. One through three. Quick, go. What's number one? >> Okay, so the first one is um a job that doesn't pay a lot, but it helps the community because I love doing community work. >> What is it, Name it?

>> Um maybe doing like substitute teaching or doing some kind of >> Okay, what's number two? >> Number two.

>> Number two would be um you know what, just dive back in. make a ton of money, make our nest egg huge, and just suck it up for a few years and and have a terrific next next. >> So being a lawyer is number two.

>> Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Number three.

>> And then number three would be somewhere in between. So get a job that's like 9 to5. It pays well. It has benefits, but also like I come home and my job, I don't take take my job home with me. >> All right. So which one of those three is most exciting?

>> Number four. Uh >> oh. >> Well, I already know the answer.

None of the above.

Number four. None of the above. >> What do you say? >> I want a job that pays 250,000 a year that's remote using your law degree and you guys can pick up stakes and go spend four months in Europe if you want to.

>> Well, it's my husband who makes that money. No, no, no, no, no. I was talking about you. >> Oh, >> Dave gave you a fourth. >> I don't know why you think that if something has meaning and is helpful to the community that it has to not pay anything.

You totally stomped her. I know where she's at. Uh Laurel, what is the what?

>> You definitely stomped me. >> I know. I know because the thing you want to do with the substitute and all that, there's something there. And I I was going to say both. And uh I don't care which one of it's one, two, three, or four. I'm not disagreeing with Dave either, but you've got to determine what it is you want to do right now. And that

can change six months from now. you're in the rare situation that you actually can do that which is why I'm saying both and but I believe >> I think there's I think there's a clear winner in the clubhouse. If you couldn't do any of them, you could you could only do one. Which one do you choose? Say it.

>> Oh, I would do the one that pays less and gives back to the community. I knew that. Gives me a lot of flexib. Do you know why I knew that? Because I've done this a lot and somebody always gives the one that they want to do the most first.

It's just basic psychology. So, here's the deal. Just go do some of that. Go substitute. Go teach. Go do whatever.

And if six weeks in you go, I scratched that itch and I want to do something else, then do something else because you are in the rare situation to be able to do that. You do not have any reason.

>> Do you think I am? I guess I guess maybe that's part of my question. I feel >> you don't have to work. >> Scared about like do we actually have enough? Are we doing >> You have enough. You don't have to work.

>> You do. Please have enough. You don't have to work. What What I What I And for

that reason, I think you can pick your battles and choose what you do and how you do it. That's right. >> And I think there's a lot of things you could do that were uh without getting in

a uh law firm meat grinder. Uh you don't

have any reason to do that. But there's but with the education level you have, you've got a lot of options that pays better than substitute teaching at the local elementary school.

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It's free at netswuite.com/ramsey.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Anna is

with us in Virginia. Hi Anna, how are you? >> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I really appreciate your time.

>> Sure. How can we help? >> So, I'm I'm 62. Um, my I've been

divorced for 10 years. Um, I've never been particularly great with money. I've always my ex-husband was better with it, you know, than I was. Um, we were we never saved a ton just and we never got into a lot of debt, but we never made a lot of money. So, we did the best we could. Um, I was working remotely um for

a company for the past 5 years and I was I was making really good I mean good money for for me I would say 70,000

which was more than I'd ever made in my life. Um, but I was let go due to um the

company losing their contract. Um, I just that was in June. I just got another job which I'm very grateful for.

So, um I can hopefully, you know, ride

that out for the next 10 years. Um you know, to retire, I think I could I'm in very good health. I think I'd be able to do that for, you know, until at least in my, you know, early 70s.

>> What are you making? What are you making in this new job? So, the new job, the new job about 45,000, but I also get

because of my ex-husband's very hard work, um I have a pension that I get because he works for the Department of uh defense. So, I get about $1,000 a month that is um only until he passes.

So, he's in great health and all of that, but um so that is contingent upon his, you know, his life.

>> Weird way to get you to pray for your ex-husband. Yeah, >> I know. I love him, though. I pray for him anyway. probably send him a lot of vitamins.

>> Oh, I love it. >> Like, no, don't go on that trip. You something might happen. >> Yeah.

>> All right. So, 45,000 from 70,000.

>> I know. It's It's And and I don't think I probably handled I think I was so

excited about having that money that I probably didn't do as much with it, you know, as I could have. I Anyway, how can we help? >> Here I am. And I just Okay. So, I have

um about a h 100,000 in uh between a

Roth IRA and a 401k.

>> Good. >> I I live I have a house, so I own it. I

mean, I I'm owning I have a mortgage on it. Um I only owe a h 100,000 on it and my payment is about 750 a month. So, I have two about a 2.75%

interest rate. >> Um I don't have any other debt. So what

how can I these last you know what is

what do I do like tell me what to save what to where to put it I've heard about annuities >> no >> I don't know really much no okay I I so I'm very confused about just give me a plan for the next 10 10 years so to get

to get the most out of what I've got left here >> okay I want you to start investing into

your 401k or Roth IAS 15%

of your income. So, $7,000 a year.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And um do you have a a 401k with a

match at the new place?

>> I do. 5%.

>> Good. Okay. So, put definitely go there.

If it's a Wroth, make it a Roth. If they have Roth available, okay.

>> Okay. >> And uh $7,000 a year. And any other money you can squeeze out of the budget, we want to throw at the house until the house is paid off.

>> Okay. So, don't like I was thinking, do I pull all that money out and pay off my house and then start? No. No. No. Okay.

So, just try >> and I want to make sure that money is invested in good growth stock mutual funds. >> Okay. >> All right. So, here's the thing. In seven years, when you're 69, the 100

will be 200 if you don't touch it.

>> Okay. >> In seven more years, it'll be 400. But

that would be 76 years old.

>> Okay. All right. Um, that's if you don't add anything to it. And we're adding at least $7,000 a month to it. All of this

is invested in good long track record growth stock mutual funds, Roth, everything.

Okay? Roth 401k, Roth IRA, sit down with a Smart Investor Pro. Any other money we can find, we throw at the mortgage. When you're 70, I want you to have a good nest egg based on this 2 to300,000 and a

paid for house.

>> Okay, >> that's what we're aiming at at this point. However, I think you're undermployed, don't you, Ken?

>> I I absolutely do because your situation is not uncommon for changes to be made.

So, what were you doing when you were making 70?

I was um an executive assistant, but I but I think honestly if I'm I was overpaid. >> I don't No, not at all. >> That sounds really weird. >> No, I don't think you were. >> Absolutely not. What What are you doing now?

>> Well, it was so I was executive assistant for a com a medical courier company. So now I'm actually a courier

for a different company. Okay. So, it's a lab company that picked up.

>> So, you took a step down in position >> to get a job. >> Yes. >> I'm glad you got a job. That's step one.

>> Admire that. I think you go back into the executive assistant world. I'm telling you something right now, uh, with your experience. And I will tell you, and what's great about the executive assistant world is your age right now is not in any way a deterrent.

Uh, that that is not going to hurt you.

And you may be surprised. I know for a fact I've got a handful of guys I'm thinking of right now and their executive assistants are making over $100,000 easy.

>> Wow. >> Now, I'm not and they're in their 60s and 70s. >> That's exactly right. Now, I'm not dangling that out.

These these are high net worth. These are these are larger companies, but I'm telling you, um you have got some real experience. I'm gonna throw another uh organization at you. I want you to look up Ble B a Y.

Okay? and they sponsor a lot of Ramsey events. I know their owners, >> okay? They're good people.

I've known them a long, long time. >> They do virtual assistants.

If you're technology savvy with computers and all that, u you should go to their website today, tell them that we sent you and just talk to them, see about that. Uh, but I Dave is right. You are undermployed. I think you ought to be aiming where you are in retirement. I think you ought to be setting your sights high to try to be making 90 to

120 in an executive assistant role.

That's what you ought to be looking for. >> And I would start at 80.

>> Yeah. >> If you had to. That's right. >> But I I think you were underpaid before >> and I know you're underpaid now. So maybe not as a courier, but what you have the potential to make. So there's several elements. We're going to take the nest egg and make it work as hard as we can. We're going to add to it systematically 15% of your income. Right

now, that's about 7,000 a year, but if we double it, it'll double, right?

>> Mhm. >> Okay. The third thing is, uh, we're going to work on paying off the house with any extra money we can squeeze out of the budget. And the fourth thing is we're going to get our income up so we make all of these things happen bigger, better, faster.

>> Yes, I will look into that that delay uh today. Yeah. All of that will work.

>> But all other companies locally look for remote positions, you know.

>> Yeah. It doesn't Everybody doesn't have to be in your backyard, but um you're doing it remote before. So, but Ken is

right. Um I mean, we've got, you know, a

bunch of executive assistants inside of Ramsey that make more than that.

>> Yes. >> So, that work here. And so, um not unusual at all. And, um not unusual at

all for them to be in your age bracket either. So, um, all of that is true and

it makes for, you know, the just a fabulous situation for everyone involved.

[Music]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like nobody will work with you. But Yrefi was built for this. They'll help you explore a fresh start. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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not available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Tim in Pennsylvania. Our daughter is 19 years old and failed her first year of college. She applies for jobs but has a bad attitude that I'm sure shows up in interviews.

My wife and I are both successful in our fields are in baby step six and have 1 million in retirement funds. So, it's not like she hasn't had a good example at home. What little savings she has is dwindling away from eating out and subscribing to useless phone apps. We've recently told her that she will have to start paying $150 rent starting next month.

She says we are being unfair because she doesn't have a job, but we explained if we lose our jobs, the bills still have to be paid and no one gets a pass.

I am sure this isn't a unique problem as this seems like a generational thing, but we want to help her launch into adulthood.

Uh well, a couple things here. You know, my personal parenting style on this is um I'm not going to fund her for anything, zero. Uh until she figures out

how hard life is, uh with a really, really bad attitude. I think that's the first thing. Um I don't mind you uh charging her rent and putting more pressure on her to act like a young adult. So, I don't think you're being too harsh. I feel like you've probably been a little bit too lax uh on this situation. But the more you can not bail her out, the more that you can just let her fail, uh, failure is life's best

teacher and it's going to be hard to stand by as parents and watch it. But I think that's what's necessary here. And there's a lot in this that we don't know. We there's a lot under the surface here. So really hard to fully go at the source of this, but that's my take on on this particular specific question.

Uh, first and foremost, you and your wife have to be in lock step.

No way can you be separated by this

child who is misbehaving.

Okay, the two of us have to be unified in our approach. Secondly, real love

says not what feels good today, but real

love says what helps this child be a successful 30-year-old.

What steps can I give? What can I give her now that she doesn't have to cause her to be a successful 30-year-old? I really don't care what her pain is or

her whining is in between.

And um I really think that one or both

of you have been way soft on this kid for a very long time. And now you're

trying to make up ground and you think $150 is tough. I think $1,500 is tough.

150 is wimpy. >> Yeah. >> Because that's what she's going to have to pay if she tries to leave. Okay. So,

I I'm going to take a little different position than Ken. Um number one, you're lock step. Number two, every move that you make is an act of love that is going to help her become the 30-year-old that she needs to become. And so, her problem

is is that she's never really had any problems.

And so, I'm going to help her have some problems.

I'm going to usher problems into her life. I'm going to start creating all kinds of problems. You're paying for her cell phone. Not anymore. I'm going to

take it up. We're going to sell it. And you're going to if you want a cell phone, you're going to have to go get you one. Uh you're paying for her car gas. Well, not anymore.

If she wants car gas, she's going to have to go get a job. Hey, you're paying for everything. And you're washing her freaking clothes.

And you got to stop it.

This is not a one-year-old. This is a 19-year-old with failure to launch. And

uh no, Tim, this is not a generational thing. This is a parenting thing.

Every generation has had people that acted like this and every generation has had productive people. This is not a generational thing. It's not all 19-year-olds are not this way. We talk to 19 year olds that are millionaires.

So, you know, it's just not true. It's nothing to do with a generation. It's got to do with your kid. And so what I'm going to do is make her life hard.

As hard as I can possibly make it, as quick as I can possibly make it. I want her to become highly uncomfortable

because the way she's living her life deserves it. And if she keeps living her life this way, she's going to be a 30-year-old that's a complete abject failure trying to figure out why this world didn't give her what she was entitled to, which is nothing.

So, I'm going to be really kind and

strong and gentle, and I'm going to

create all kinds of hell for her until

she moves out and gets a job.

I really want her to leave as fast as she can go. I want her to go get a job as fast as she can go. I want her to be so uncomfortable that she goes and gets a job and goes and gets a life and starts buying her own milk and starts buying her own bread and suddenly her character will change. It's going to be the most amazing transformation.

But you are going to be called every name in the book because you've made it soft for so long and now you're changing the program. And changing the program is going to feel very unfair. Baby doll, I am sorry. I owe you an apology.

And we love you too much to allow you to be useless. And I just love you so much.

And so I'm going to help you have some problems because I want you to be a unbelievable success when you're 30. And so I'm we're going to create problems for you. And you're not going to like me for a while, but you need to know I love you. And you need to know I'll always make you a plate of food, but you you're I'm going to create some problems for you.

See, the eagle when it builds a nest, it

builds a nest out of thorns.

Long 6inch thorn bush thorns.

And then it fills the nest with down

from anything soft, anything it can find to where when the baby eagle is born, it is born in complete comfort. As the baby

eagle grows in stature and begins to

stretch out its little wings, the mama eagle removes the down every day a little bit more from the nest. And every day those thorns get more and more pronounced until it's almost impossible

to sit in the nest. And the little baby eagle has to get up on the edge of the nest because you can no longer sit in a thorn bush in the bottom of the nest.

And then when the baby eagle's up on the side of the nest, you know what it'll do? It'll start flapping its wings

and it will fall.

And then the wings will start working and it will glide. And you know, the mother eagle holds her breath, wondering if this is the first eagle that can't fly. But it turns out it's not. Turns out this eagle can fly. But it never would have left the nest if it was comfortable.

And an eagle that doesn't leave the nest eventually is known as a turkey.

And so little turkey needs to leave the nest. It's going to be good for little turkey. Gobble gobble.

>> You know, >> I'm I'm so mean and nasty these days.

>> No, you're not. I was following you. And I thought, well, if the eagle becomes a turkey, then the turkey ends up on the Thanksgiving table. >> Whoa. Whoa. You get baked.

>> People eat it. >> Yeah, that's it. >> The world will eat you alive. I was I was tracking that way. I was trying to get eat alive. Trying to get >> Yeah, I was, >> you know, we don't serve eagle.

>> That's what I'm getting. >> Eagle's not eagle's not on. >> You don't see eagles on the Thanksgiving table. >> Huh. That's very interesting. I know.

That's a good point. I had thought about that. >> I was cracking with you. I was really paying attention. My redneck buddies, they don't go eagle hunting. They go turkey hunting, though. >> No, no, that's right. We admire eagles.

We eat turkeys.

>> There's a bumper sticker.

>> Oh, >> no. I think it's a great point. I And and I, by the way, that was a very good description, but I I am all for failure.

Let the kid fail. Yeah. You can't keep bailing them out because again at some point >> whatever was going on when she failed college was going on when she was in high school and was going on when she was in the sixth grade. That's right.

This isn't a first time this has come up. Her little attitude >> is going to get adjusted out there.

>> Right. Well, I don't think she's ever had to finish dealing with failure. She She >> She's never had to finish the results of her attitude sucking. >> That's it. That's right. cuz that that 100% of the time a bad attitude will cause you to have a bad life. Period.

And that didn't start at college and that didn't start when she was living in the basement rentree. And $150 doesn't fix that either. >> That's true. That's not stiff enough.

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Heat. Heat.

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Jake is in Texas. Hi Jake. How are you?

>> I'm better than I deserve. Dave, >> good. How can we help?

So, me and the wife are about six weeks

from uh selling one of our businesses,

and we're going to end up with about 1.1

million in our pocket when we're done.

Plus, we get to uh keep the real estate.

So, we've got um we've got a little bit of a mortgage left and we've got some debt on another business. Um, we're just kind of not sure to take this money and go to the market or to to go ahead and get 100% debtree across the board and then then go to the market. We're just not uh not sure.

>> Well, you knew what I would say, didn't you?

>> Well, I I knew what I wanted to hear. I just sometimes you just need to hear it.

I mean, if you answer the call better than I deserve, you already know what I'm going to say, dude. So, now have the

1 million. Have you paid 1.1?

Congratulations, by the way. It's wonderful to grow a business and have a liquidity moment like that. That's incredible. Very well done. You're a millionaire. That's just so cool. So proud of you. Have you paid your taxes out of the 1.1 yet?

>> That's that is our net. So, I've already calculated all of the >> Okay. You're going to have that clear of taxation, >> correct? >> Good. Okay. And how much do you owe on the business and owe on your home?

>> Uh, the business that we're selling is debtree. We have >> No, no, no, no. The one you wanted to pay off.

>> Um, so we have three auto loans that are about 100,000 combined. And then we have some uh equipment loans, two pieces of equipment that are about 100,000 combined. >> And how much do you owe on your home?

We owe $155,000 on our home. >> Okay. So $355,000 makes you 100%

debtree.

>> That's correct. >> The real estate from the deal you sold is already debtree.

>> Correct. We uh we'll uh get about 3500

triple net lease on that property in the future. You don't have a payment in the

whole world if you write $355,000 worth

of checks.

>> That's it. >> Okay. It's a no-brainer, man.

>> I'm debtree.

>> And uh you know that that's that's going to leave you 700,000 bucks, you know, to do some investing with. Oh, darn.

>> Yep. Well, thank you for uh helping us get here, Dave. It's uh you've truly been a a blessing to me and my wife and

I thought we would be >> What kind of what kind of business was it that you saw?

>> It was a oil and gas manufacturing company that we started it less than 12 months ago. >> Whoa. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Well, the American dream is dead, they tell us. >> Yeah. The system is rigged. Little man can't get ahead. And you did, didn't you? >> 12 months, man.

>> Dad gum. That's incredible. Very well done. And by the way, a manufacturing company. You don't see any fancy glitzy

brochures and commercials for that.

>> Didn't hear the word digital. >> No, >> didn't hear it. Heard heard a building left behind on triple net. Yeah, man.

Way to go, Jake. >> Dude, that's incredible. >> Explain that to me real quick. I mean, the the triple net. >> Triple net is like um typically done with warehouses or a situation like he's

doing, one of the two. And triple net means that the landlord pays for nothing. So, if I'm the tenant and I have triple net, I pay my utilities, I pay the insurance on the building and I pay the property taxes on the building and I pay anything associated with the building. So, when I write a check to the landlord, it is net net.

>> Wow. >> All of it. 100% of that 3,500 bucks is there there's um his operating income after expenses is the same as his gross revenue. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, it's like clipping coupons. It's a very nice, sweet little commercial real estate deal. I love a triple net lease. Uh landlord's got almost no responsibilities. If there's something breaks on the building, oh, repairs, maintenance, you have to fix it. >> Roof leaks, you got to fix it. >> Dumb question here because I'm just now learning about this.

Do what makes that possible in a situation like that? What are the factors that would allow someone to get that kind of a deal?

>> Well, typically, uh it is a single-use building, right? Okay. um or at least

the area that the it's encapsulated because you couldn't pay you couldn't do repairs like on the other end of the building for the other tenant if you're the tenant right so so typically a single-use building again a lot of times it's a very simple building like a warehouse something like that I don't know of any retail that does triple net I don't know of any very few offices do triple net that kind of thing most of those have common area maintenance cam in them those kinds of things other ways of of covering the expenses >> uh but the Um, but that standalone singleuse building.

>> If I built a Walgreens and Walgreens was the tenant. Walgreens is probably those are probably triple net leases. I don't know if they are, but they probably are.

I do know Walgreens doesn't own their buildings that they they have local investors build them and then they um they they pay the rent and um and I think they pay all the expenses.

>> So, this is a sweet deal. He sells the the company that the building is in but keeps the building. He still owns the real estate but have but and has a low

maintenance or or no low hassle

>> check coming in very low hassle.

>> Does that tell us that they were so thrilled to get the actual business that they were willing to play ball >> pro probably but it probably is a singleuse manufacturing warehouse type building. >> Probably a typical way to structure that also. >> But uh I I don't think he I mean I think but yeah they wanted to stay in the building. They had an ongoing concern and yes >> good place to keep going.

Yeah, absolutely. >> Good, good, good. >> Robert's in Florida. Hey, Robert.

How are you? >> I'm better than I deserve. How y'all doing? >> Same, sir.

>> Well, um me and my wife, we are we are in a a good situation. Um very blessed.

Um we have some some our two children are are late in high school, about to retire, so we're about to be or about to graduate. Sorry. So, we're about to be empty nesters. And >> we're looking to buy a second home.

>> We live in Florida. Um, love vacationing up in in in Colorado in the mountains when it's nice and cool and in the summer when it's hotter than heck in and in in Florida and we are at a position where we were able to pay cash for that house. >> Awesomeness. >> The thing is I've done many of the steps. I like to think that we are well into number seven, but I still have six.

>> Then you're not in seven.

the current the current home that I have. I'm struggling. We do have a mortgage. >> How much do you owe on your current mortgage?

>> Uh 954,950.

>> Okay. And how much cash do you have available to do the mortgage payoff and

buy the Colorado house?

>> Uh we currently have about 6.65 million

>> available.

>> Available. Correct. And we're going to use about 3.5 for the cash on the Colorado house. The issue is or what I'm

struggling with. >> What's the house in Florida worth?

>> Uh about 4.3.

>> Okay. What's your total net worth?

>> Uh just over 15 million. And that would

not include the value of my business if I were to sell my business. That's just in real estate. Uh cash stocks. Way to

go, >> personal assets. >> Okay. Well, I you know, you know the story. I pay cash for everything >> and I've and in 30 in 34 years of doing this show, I've never talked anybody into paying off their house that they called me back mad.

>> Well, that's the struggle is is I I guess I didn't get to to that in 2020.

Rates were low. I refinance I refinanced to a 15 year 2.25.

>> Yeah. >> So, knowing that my $10,000 a month is only at 2.25 25 on on that particular mortgage. I make well.

>> Hey, Robert, you didn't get rich borrowing on your house. You got rich being smart.

>> That's the struggle. I see the >> No, you didn't get rich leveraging your house. >> The 2.25.

>> You didn't get rich leveraging your house. It's not where your wealth came from. Your wealth came from being smart.

>> Yeah. And so you're mystifying yourself with a little bit of mathematics and you're leaving out risk. So if I were you, I

would write a check today and I would be debtree and I would buy a house in Colorado for cash and I would be debtree and I'd be sitting in my two wonderful properties enjoying life with $15 million net worth and not a payment in the world and not trying to noodle around how I'm making 52 cents on the

spread on this mortgage. It's just you're you're burning a lot of calories here over nothing. Truthfully, I'd pay that thing off so fast it'd be unbelievable. And if you hate it and I'm wrong, you can go get you another mortgage. [Music]

[Music]

[Music] our Our scripture of the day, Psalm 119:89 and 90. Your word, Lord, is

eternal. It stands firm in the heavens.

Your faithfulness continues through all generations. You establish the earth, and it endures.

Thomas Jefferson said, "In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock." Oo,

>> that's my all-time favorite Jefferson quote, actually. >> Very, very good. If you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on, pay the mortgage, and afford groceries? If anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance.

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or click the link in the description and we'll help you out. Sam's in Pittsburgh.

Hey Sam, how are you?

>> Doing well, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, my husband and I are trying to make

a decision regarding my career where I

would be transitioning from um, a public

school position to a private school position that is very appealing in every

way except financially. My income would be reduced by onethird

if we made this decision. And we are currently on baby step two.

Is this you're a teacher?

>> I am transitioning from a service

provider to a school counseling position. >> Is the reason for the move just desire to be in a better environment or is it really really bad where you are?

It is currently the desire to be in

another environment with what seems to be writing on the wall where it's going to get really bad in what my current

role is. >> How long before how long before it gets really bad?

>> Weeks, months at most, but definitely this school year I see being very tumultuous with some of the administrative decisions that have been made.

Uh, is it is it real wear and tear schedulewise or is it just something you disagree with? I'm I'm going somewhere with this why I'm digging.

>> What what what is the decision? What are those decisions going to cause for you specifically?

I am worried about ramifications to my

professional reputation based on decisions that are out of my hands because my it is my role to provide the

service but I didn't get to decide be a

part of these decisions and the way it was changed but I'm the face of the service to the families >> and I do have that concern especially as someone who you know I I have at least 20 years until retirement I have a long road to go and my reputation matters and it affects my job and my liability.

>> Now, what do you do? You're a CA school counselor. Is that what you're saying?

>> Yes. Well, my current role is very closely related to school counseling, but I'm finishing my school counseling certification right now with the hopes

of transitioning into school counseling anyway. And this position has opened up that does not require me to be finished with my certification. >> What do you make? But I I'll be able to finish it.

>> What do you make?

>> I currently make 74,000.

>> And you'd make like 50.

>> I would make 50. >> When is Also, I'll be making increased

salary on the teacher steps because I do have a teacher contract and eventually the classes I take will also bump me up some of my salary.

>> All right. So, when do you anticipate you're going to be done with baby step two if you were to stay where you are?

>> That is a fantastic question. We have tried to plot it out where by May, which

is also towards the end of the school year and when I would be finishing my certification.

>> Oh, so it doesn't affect baby step two.

>> I'm sorry. You mean Oh, you make it by the end of May if you do the job. You make it by the end of May. I'm sorry. If she stays where she is, they get it done in May. If you don't stay where you are, when do you get it done?

>> That's our question.

>> I'm sorry. I'm I hate to keep interrupting you. I apologize, but the I'm having these thoughts. So, are you planning to stay to the end of the school year regardless?

>> This position, I would be transitioning

in October. >> Oh, immediately. Okay.

Okay. So instead of May, it's going to be September or October of next year before you're debtree.

>> Mhm. >> All right. And then another quick followup. Another quick followup on what you told us.

>> If you take this cut and go to a private school, how long or if ever can will it take for you to get back to the 70 that you're making now?

>> I don't know if it would ever happen because it's based on, you know,

fundraising initiatives and things like that. how they can increase salaries.

>> I just don't I haven't heard enough. I just haven't heard enough. And I maybe not understanding how it affects your reputation, but I would hate for you to take this job right now. Private schools are always going to be there. Those positions are going to be there. A third pay cut while you're in the middle, baby step two. I've advised people before to do it if it had some extreme situations to it. I don't see it, Dave. Do you feel something different?

I'd almost stick it out is my point. and and and get done with the school year and knock out baby step two >> and then look at but if it's gonna harm your reputation >> I mean it sounds like there's an ethics breach is what >> that's what I can't figure it out >> yeah but the uh um like what they're asking her to do is against her moral code >> is that what's is that what we're hearing >> yes I see some some writing on the wall

where there's going to be rather large ramifications and I actually worry about the long-term position security.

>> Okay. >> All right. Well, then I then I always want you to do what's right. Um, let me just say that. Uh, I didn't quite pick up on that. It's that serious. If that's serious, I don't I don't want to stay where there's an ethics problem or I'm or I'm asked to be engaged in something I ethically can't do. I can't I can't stay. >> Um, but I also don't want to

>> create that in my mind if the other is

just more comfortable.

Mhm. >> And I I I don't think I'm hearing that, but I'll just warn you against that.

Okay. >> Um it's like I really want to go over there because it's my people and I'm more comfortable there and so I'm going to blow the drama up over here in my head. I I have the ability to do that.

So I have to guard against that. Sam, I'm not saying you're doing that. I'm just saying I can do that. So guard against that. Um >> thank you. >> Then if you're going to take it, the other thing, yes, I'm going to take it.

But uh I'm also going to look for ways to supplement my income utilizing my career field. >> Yeah. >> Is there independent tutoring or independent uh counseling you can do uh with your

certification that's legal or independent help you can provide a student that parents can pay for on the side akin to a teacher doing tutoring?

Uh those kinds of things there probably is. >> Yeah. and I'm going to look for some kind of side hustle that's in the field

that supplements and almost gets me back up there. Um, and it's probably going to mean some extra hours, but that's the trade-off for getting away from the slime and getting into a good area.

>> I agree. That's the strategic question, Sam. How do I replace the one-third that

I'm giving up? That's the goal. That's

the goal. >> Yeah. And so, you know, it it's just

blows my mind that people can get paid $40 or $50 an hour for math tutoring.

Now, that's not your field, okay? Uh but there they are. Are reading help, helping people with remedial reading, uh as side tutoring, the the the money that can be made doing that. Um, I even know one guy who's coaching uh high school and middle schoolers independently in his backyard with basketball skills.

He played D1 basketball and his side hustle is doing that and he's he's, >> you know, a personal trainer for upand cominging basketballers and he's making 50 bucks an hour doing it. It's, you know, so that that's the kind of thing I'm always looking for in this situation. Good question.

works well for you. That puts us Hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 11. Are You Ready To Live Differently To Win? | February 25, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw.

Next to me today, uh, George Camel. You ready to get started, George? >> I'm pumped. Let's do this.

>> Let's get into it. We've got Brandon who's here locally in Nashville, Tennessee. Hey Brandon, how can we help today? >> Hi, good afternoon.

I appreciate you taking my call. >> Most definitely.

um about 13 years ago and she's fallen on very hard times because of some very bad decisions. And um after trying to

move her out, we've identified maybe about $20,000 of damage as a very rough

estimate that needs to be taken care of.

And I'm trying to decide where I should take these funds from.

>> Okay. Um I'm assuming she has no money if she's fallen on hard times.

>> Yeah, that's correct. She act she actually owes more money than she has.

So very hard times.

>> How long has this been going on?

um the past two years. Um she quit her job. Um she's been living on off her

retirement for the past two years and she's exhausted all of those uh funds

and has >> When's the last time she paid rent?

>> Um so this was the last month. Um I talked to her because it was the first month she paid in cash and I thought that was very suspicious. So, I confronted her on it and she told me she only has enough for one more month of rent. So, we've been spending the past few weeks trying to get her moved out so we can get repairs done.

>> Where is she going?

>> Um, that's still up in the air either with myself or my younger brother, which isn't I don't believe either of those options are the best option, but those are the only options we have >> currently. Is she um is she Well, how

old is she? She is 63.

>> Oh, so

why isn't she working?

>> Um, you know, there's not a good answer for that. And the answers she's given me,

you know, are just not very valid. So, I can't I can't give you a good excuse.

It's either health problems or stress problems or mental problems. You know, it's all of those combined. But it doesn't, you know, it doesn't legitimize >> sure >> her decision-m. >> So there's 20,000 of of damages and

you're the question was where do I take the money from? What are your options?

>> So I currently have about 19,600 liquid

um stretched across my banking accounts.

Um, I also have a paid off truck that I

use as my daily driver. And I have a

Mustang that I currently owe 9,000 on

um, as kind of something I'm a little more sentimentally attached to than the truck. But the truck is my daily driver.

>> What do you what the truck uh, what's it worth? >> Um, it's probably worth 30 to 35,000.

>> Oh, wow. So, question long term. So,

your mom, let's say your mom moves out, you cover the 20,000 in damages. What happens next? You bring another renter in who has the propensity to do the same thing, and now, you know, again, you're on the hook for however much the damages are. Like, what's the long-term play here to not be in this situation again, >> right? Me and my wife are still kind of debating that question. um whether it's worth keeping and renting out a little more legitimate uh with a a a very detailed lease agreement or selling the

property, which I would prefer not to do, but that option is there, too, just

to make all these problems go away.

>> So, here's what I'm thinking. Let's let's let's talk about the 20,000 first, and then let's talk about George and I can give you some ideas for the long-term play on this based on your finances. Yeah. I I I don't think your mom has the money. I think continuing to hound her about this is just going to be like you bashing your head against the wall. Fair enough. >> Right. >> So, yeah. >> No, I've got the bruises to prove it.

>> You don't have a landlord insurance policy? >> No. No. This was strictly just because I was trying to help my mom out >> and she wasn't a legal tenant then.

There was no deposit, nothing signed.

Okay. So, this is it's on you.

>> And I think that stinks to realize and we also need to take our part in owning that we made a whole lot of mistakes on our own that got us here. Number one was letting mom live there. Kind of knowing that she wasn't in a good financial spot and probably this day would come where she didn't take care of the place. She can't afford to rent and we have to evict our own mother.

>> Right. Everything you said is accurate.

I even let her know if she did move in with us that I don't I don't want to have her pay any rent. All I care about is her getting back on her feet. So, I'm I'm fully uh acknowledged that this is in my hands and I'm going to have to be the one to solve this problem. So, >> and she'll likely be your burden financially as well for the foreseeable future.

>> That's right. As well, that's one of my concerns.

>> Yeah. So, yeah, if I'm you, I am going to scrge together this this money and I'm going to try to get this stuff done for the cheapest price possible. It's possible that you can do it uh for 20 for less than 20,000. Maybe you put your own sweat equity in it.

I don't know the nature of the repairs. But let's talk about further down the line. uh the way you mentioned the 20,000, you know, scraping together from here and there. I want to know about your financial snapshot and if it makes sense to even keep this rental house.

So, tell us about you.

allows me enough to support two mortgages. It's not going to hit me financially at all. Just the big hit is going to be this complete liquidation of all my savings because I only have 19,600 liquid. So, it's going to put me back to square one. Uh, which I'm trying to avoid. >> How much are you making a month?

>> Um, 8700.

>> And then what are your total expenses including everything, insurance, food, bills, all the mortgages? What's your outcome? >> I pay 3,000. Um, my total income for the

month, yeah, 8,000. My total expenses is 3,000 after bills. Not counting groceries, just the bills. >> So, counting everything though, are you spending about five grand a month, you'd say?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you might have 3,000 left over each month. >> Yes.

>> So, that's smart. >> So, we can cash flow this over the next month, two months, three months to where you're not fully liquidating it all at once. Maybe we spend 10 grand now and then another five grand next month, five grand the following month, and then we're done.

>> Okay. >> Now, what's the tell tell me about your current residence. What do you owe on that? >> Um, we bought this property in 2021 for

300. I think we owe 280 still left on it. >> Uh-huh. And what's it worth? >> 260. 261, I'm sorry.

>> Okay. >> Um, what's it worth? Probably um low 400s maybe. And what about the

rental? What do you owe on it and what's it worth? >> The rental we owe 88,000. It's probably worth 240.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, after selling it and everything, I'd probably pocket one 140.

>> What would you do with that 140? If you had that sitting around an account, >> I would like to invest it into um you

know, the S&P and the Dow or whatever would be best um and just leave it there. >> I love that. Well, think about that plan versus being a landlord. It sounds like you don't love dealing with the physical issues, a tenant, the upkeep and maintenance.

So, if you could get a return by that money just being invested and it might be even more than you would have gotten if you had a tenant. >> I agree with that. >> Right.

>> I do. I have a small investment with the Roth and the or not the Roth, I'm sorry, the S&P and the Dow. Okay.

>> Um not very anything substantial worth talking about. It's 6600, but I do have the TSP from my time in the military.

>> Then I mean I I got to say based on how this is hitting you as an inconvenience, I could see down the road this rental continuing to be an inconvenience. Um I like the idea of you selling it and taking that money and investing it for your future or however you think it would be best spent. Especially with mom potentially moving in, you're going to have your hands full.

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All right, back to the phone lines we go where we have Cordell who's in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Hey Cordell, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how are you >> doing? Good. What's up?

Um, I have so um I'm in a little bit of

a pickle. I have a um I bought a car in

2023 and um the car no longer runs. Um it

needs a new engine and it's been like that for a while. It's been just sitting outside. Uh I quoted the dealership.

They said $8,500 um to get like a new engine. Um, but I

don't want to put any money into the car at all. And I'm stuck with I think I owe just around like seven grand. I think I just checked it's like 7100 on the car.

>> Oh wow. >> And what's it worth in its current state?

>> Nothing.

>> Yeah. I called the dealership and they said 200. But

>> the car is worth 200. Like that's what they would give you for it.

>> That's what they would trade in. Yeah.

>> Did you buy this car from that dealership?

>> I did. >> Okay. It feels like you keep going back to an abusive ex. Like, of course, they're going to screw you on every turn. And so, I would not go to the dealership to get this thing fixed. I would go to an independent mechanic and maybe two to get some quotes on what it's going to take to get this thing up and running. >> How much money do you have?

>> Um, I don't have anything liquid. A lot

liquid. Um, about a,000. That's about

it. Um, >> what are you driving now?

>> Um, I have my mom's car. She gifted me.

So, everything's in my name, title, and everything. She gifted me her car. It's paid for >> and it runs it runs good.

>> Is it's paid for her car that she gave you? >> Yeah, it's it's paid off. Yeah. There's no payment or anything. >> So, this is great news cuz it means you don't have to go buy a new car and whatever we can get for this thing is what we get for it. Now, we need to pay off the loan. That's the problem. So, we need to come up with a difference or scrape up the cash to get this thing fixed and then sell it. >> You said you only had $1,000 liquid.

What do you have non-liquid and what's it in what's the nature of it?

>> Um, and like my 401k about it.

>> Okay. Just making sure you didn't have stocks or like some coins sitting around. Okay. Uh, yeah, I'm with George.

We started doing that but um we're not at the point yet where it's like at you know we can take out the money for liquid you know what I mean?

>> Understood. >> Started. >> So tell us about your work. Are you working?

>> I am working. Yes.

>> Okay. What are you bringing in?

>> Um about 50 55,000 a year.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And is you have a spouse at home?

>> Yes. Yes. I'm married. >> Are they working outside the home as well? >> Yes. Mhm. >> Okay. Okay. What do they make?

>> Um, around the same.

>> Great. >> $100,000 income. Great. >> We make six figures. So, this is a solvable problem. Within the next month or two, we could probably scrape up enough to cover this if we live on nothing.

So, can you keep up with the payment for now?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what I've been I've been trying to do. I mean, >> what's the payment? >> The the car pay. It's like 322 a month.

>> Okay. So, you should be able to easily handle that. >> On our screen, it says, "Should I do a voluntary repo?" Is that what you were thinking about doing?

>> So, the I called the dealership back and they I asked them, "What should I do?" And they said, "Your best bet is to do a voluntary repo with a credit." >> Oh my goodness. >> And I said >> I said I just got my credit just went up 50 points last week and like we've been really trying to do that and I don't want to do that. >> I'm so glad you didn't listen to them.

That is called set set you up for failure. So, I'm so glad that you called us instead. Um, yeah, you you're bringing home over 6,000 bucks a month.

You're handling the payment, but we want you to get out of this cuz obviously it's not running and we don't want you in any debt anyway. So, I don't know if you have other debt to speak of that's sucking up more of your income, but I would put this kind of as a top priority. Um, my guess is if you listed your debts model, this is probably towards the the bottom of the heap.

>> Um, yes. Yeah, this is actually the last. This is my biggest bill.

>> Oh, this is your biggest bill. Okay, great. >> So, you could knock all your debts out pretty quickly making 100 grand if you guys It sounds like you have not been on a budget. It's kind of just been spending willy-nilly, not really paying attention.

>> Yeah. >> Okay, >> that's 100% accurate.

>> Now, are you and your wife ready to for some life change? Cuz we're about to be living differently for a little while.

>> Yeah. Um I've been trying to do that.

>> There was a lot of breath in that. Cornell, I don't know about that.

>> Yeah, I would I would have a real vision casting convo tonight.

>> Where you say, "Hey, listen. The way I've been leading us in money, this is not an attack on her. It's start with I statements. The way I've been leading us when it comes to money has not been great. And I own up to that. And it's left us in a real pickle where we have this huge repair that we can't afford and we got all these payments around us.

I'm ready to live differently. are you on board to help us get out of this and stay out?

>> See how that's that's not an alarming attacking conversation.

And then it becomes the byproduct is hey, let's get on a budget and just see what our income's going to be this month. See what our expenses are and see where we can do better to cut anything that isn't necessary for the next few months. >> Yeah. And and that's what this is going to look like.

But it's going to start with the two of you and we'll make sure that you're set up to one. We'll give you every dollar. It's the best budgeting out uh budgeting app out there. But it's more than that.

It's really going to help you stick to the plan.

And Every Dollar is going to do the same thing for you as well. So, Kelly will pick up and get that to you. But the key is you guys have got to get on this. You guys have got to work it together. It's totally um up to you to do this. So,

George, let's talk real quick about repo. Um, because I feel like, first off, I feel like we're getting more and more calls about that. I don't know if that's just a reflection of the high cost of living right now and people are falling behind on payments that they got when auto prices were super duper high.

I'm not really sure what the correlation is there. I could speculate on that a little bit, but uh repossession guys is

never is never the answer.

>> When you hear the word repossessed, what do you think of Jade? >> It sounds like a demon. It's a possession. Tie them together when you hear that word.

And so here's the problem. Whether it's involuntary or voluntary, involuntary is they show up at your driveway. >> That bad boy. Yeah.

But don't do voluntary. A lot of people think there's a difference between the two. Well, I'm just it's on me. I'm voluntarily giving it up.

No, it's still you're still going to have to go through the same negative process. >> Yeah. It will destroy your credit. It leaves you liable for the difference after auction.

They go sell it for like pennies on the dollar to get what they can. Then they come after you for the difference. And so you're in no better of a spot than if you just continued keeping up with the payments and tried to sell it yourself.

That is the goal to sell it on your own to get way more so that you're at least less underwater. >> That's right. And if there's here's the thing. If you are underwater, maybe you have a vehicle that, like I said, you paid too much for, you're underwater on it. Guys, what we would suggest here always some less debt is better than high debt, right? So, let's pretend you had a vehicle that you spent $30,000 on and now it's only worth, I don't know, 15, half the amount. You're upside down.

We're always going to tell you, go down to the credit union, see if you can get a loan for the difference. See if you can get that. I don't care. You could put it on a credit card for all I care.

I just want that number down. I want you to be paying $15,000 of debt instead of

$30,000 of debt is my point. And then from there on, now we can actually work out of this. Now, you have a lower monthly payment. So again, that's going to come and and work for you on the debt snowball. You have more money to throw out your debts, smallest to largest.

That's why we suggest that. But please, please, please never go down to the dealership and ask them what they think

because they don't have your best interest in at heart. >> Yeah. It's like making a deal with the devil, then going back to the devil for financial advice. >> Yeah. And thinking he's on your side.

>> Exactly. And so this is not a knock on every dealership in the country, but generally the dealership is the most expensive place to buy a car and get any repairs done. >> Well, they're not your financial adviser. And at this point, we're talking about a financial decision.

And that's really where the conversation changes. They want to sell you a vehicle. They're in the vehicle business. >> But you go back to the the devil, you know.

>> Yeah. >> A lot of devil references here. A lot of demons. I apologize to the kids watching out there.

>> Yeah. What's wrong, George? >> I'm so angry. These people are getting hosed.

I talked with a guy in the street last week.

>> Lordy. Lordy. Because their credit shot.

And what do they do? They say, "Well, hey, we can work with you. What kind of payment you looking for?" >> If they say those words, "Run, you are

about to fall for a borderline scam." >> Yeah. >> And they'll extend the loan. Hey, 72 months, 96 months, whatever you want. We can make it happen. >> Guys, let me tell you, a cash car, that's where it's at. >> Can't be underwater on that. >> You can't be underwater. And I would rather drive a cash car that's 10 years old than have a payment that's going to keep me broke for the foreseeable future. I'm just saying

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So, one of the best things that you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro in your corner that you can trust. They'll help advise you on the best moves to make for your situation or for your small business, especially if you've had some big changes in your life in the past year. So, go to ramseyolutions.com/taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsay team. You need this. All right, let's go to George who's in Boisee, Idaho. Hey, George. How you doing?

>> Doing well, thank you. >> Yeah, no problem. How can we help today?

So, I was uh I just started talking to

uh my lender. We my my wife and I bought our first home a little over a year ago and he was reaching out because interest rates have you know kind of gone down and we talked about possible refinance in the future and uh he did a soft

credit pool and was kind of running me through options and um I come to realize

that my wife is in about $24,000 of

credit card debt that I was naively unaware about. M >> I knew she had some debt, but I didn't know it was that bad. Where there's four cards, three of them that are about like 99% um maxed almost maxed out.

>> Wow. >> Well, you say naively. Why didn't she tell you?

>> Um I I'm not 100% sure.

>> How long have you guys been married?

>> It's uh it'll be 15 years. This April.

And how long has this debt been laying around?

>> Uh, some of it, you know, five years or

so. And I just was not aware that it was that bad. I don't think it was that bad.

But, um, I think it's just one of these things where she just uses the card um, and doesn't really think of the repercussions. Um, again, I'm not 100% sure, but I've been trying to >> This is beyond like I'm casually using a card. If you've maxed out three credit cards without telling your spouse, this is straight up financial infidelity.

There's no other way to say it. >> Do you combine your money or are you guys doing the separate deal?

>> We've been doing separate. This is obviously what I've I thought would work best. Then we just, you know, I I I'm the majority income. Brad Winner and I

cover mortgage. I cover car. I cover most of the bills. I let her do you know handle >> Yeah. um insurance or you know >> well I mean you got you kind of have set yourself up because unfortunately what happens in an environment where you don't have full transparency uh which is

we don't have things combined therefore you have your world I have my world like you said maybe you do the insurance I do the mortgage right it does set up this idea that I can kind of do my own thing over here and as long in her mind it's probably like as long as it doesn't affect you we're we're square and then that sets you up to have the same thing.

So that's the danger. George, both of the Georgees I'm talking to right now, that's the >> when you silo your money. >> Yeah, when you silo your money. Have you confronted her about what was where all this money was spent and why she did this without telling you? >> Um I I just we recently did it and you

know and it was like I said so we had you know I guess she put my daughter's braces on one of them. She had some health issues a number of years ago where she had to get some stuff and she put or you know for to pay the medical expenses and she was using one of those to do that. >> So she's not buying Louis bags, you know, she's not out here. >> No, no, no, no.

>> Okay, that's Well, that's good. That's the good the upside. >> More noble purchases, I guess.

>> I started going through them yesterday and then she even did some cash advances. something like that's the last thing you ever want to do on credit cards cuz >> you know one of them one of her monthly payments is like $242 and >> have you guys >> have you guys had the conversation that we don't we don't engage in debt.

Well, it's something where she knows that I've been working on because I had terrible credit. You know, maybe six, seven years ago in the low 500s, I couldn't even get a $500 credit card from my bank. And now over the last years or a few years, I've learned how

to play the credit game, learn how to what to do with it, not to buy things just because, you know, if I don't have the cash, I had to kind of learn the hard way. But at that same bank that wouldn't give me a $500 credit card, now I have a $46,000 credit card then and I

don't I maybe owe $1,000 on it.

>> Here's the problem. >> For some part, >> here's the problem. Here's where the confusion is. Here's where the confusion is.

>> Um there's a lot of confusion in this and I hear what you're saying and it now is crystal clear to me. So there's there's two or three issues here. Number one, what like what we already said, the money is siloed. So because of that there is just going to be a level of secrecy.

>> So that's thing one and you both have created that environment.

your relationship. It sounds like it's if it's if it's this kind of debt it's okay but >> it helps her credit score then maybe.

>> Uhhuh. And so I think that's created that's the second problem is there's just not a clear stance on what does that mean? And then the third thing is, yeah, there is a lack of communication.

There is something there that she didn't feel like she could tell you.

>> Um, even something like braces, hey, I have to use this money for our our children's braces. So, there's a communication there or some sort of like lack of trust that I don't feel like I can come to you with this or I don't feel like I can share this. So these are three main issues and I hearing the call

George what I would suggest is >> um if you can take a level of ownership in this too and then you can come to her and say you know what we've gotten off on the wrong track like both of us and I see my part in this and I I want to

change what I'm doing today and I like I hope that you're here with me because we can't keep going like this. I want you to know that I trust you. I want our finances to be together. And what I'm what I'm finding right now is I was focused on debt and I kind of was a hypocrite because I was saying my debt was okay, but yours wasn't.

And I think honestly going forward, we just need to say that debt has not been good for our relationship. And going forward, I don't want to engage on it. I don't know about you, but this is what I want to talk to you about.

>> Yeah. No, I I love that. And that's in that's some the conversation I had last night when I said I was like regardless I was like your debt is my debt.

>> Um I have like $4,000 in debt. But I

told her and I'm thinking oh we just finally got a tax return for the first time in like two years cuz I'm making more money than I've made in the past.

So having to adjust for things like that we I had owed the last two years but you know having extra money taken out and being on top of the finances where we got like you know $4,500 like okay cool

maybe we can use this to pay down our credit card debt thinking ours was roughly around the same not realizing hers was as much as it was.

>> Yeah. So what's your total consumer debt now? >> Yeah. Um it's uh about 30,000 between

the both of us. >> Okay. How much do you have in across checking and savings liquid?

>> Um like left over or just currently right now? >> Currently, >> um I have about $2,300 right now in my in my debit. That's after mortgage and bills are paid. >> Okay. I would likely pause on this refinance cuz it's going to cost you 2 to 5% of the loan and I don't know that you're going to break even anytime soon.

So this might be a down the line thing.

Right now, the focus is just attacking this debt with the debt snowball. That's the easy advice. Just tackle it as if it was y'all's debt and smallest credit card goes first, minimum payments on the rest. The hard part is going to be resetting your marriage and financial life and her rebuilding trust. And the

way to do that is a micro commitment every day to be a person who is trustworthy. Mhm. >> And that's going to involve transparency and accountability and having a joint account and we know the plan and freezing your all both of your credit.

Freeze all the accounts so that nobody could open debt in your name, including you. Make it really hard. Add the friction there so that we're not tempted.

>> And if you do all of those things and get on a budget, there's there's definitely hope here. We can get out of this pretty fast.

>> Okay. Well, a question with the snowball is um is it because like I said, most of them they're all around the same. They're all like 6,400 6300 6600. I'm

looking at >> Yeah. So, what I would do then is I would do them in order. If it's 6,400, you know, if the 6,300 one is the smallest one, do that one first and then do the 6400 one and then do the 6600 one. So, when you do the debt snowball, everybody, what we're doing here is we're listing the debts smallest to largest by balance, not by monthly payment, not by interest rate.

It truly is by balance. And when you do that, you get those small wins quickly. Uh you feel that that rush of uh dopamine. You feel like, hey, I did something and you want to go to the next one.

And it really is proven to be the best method to pay off your debt quickly.

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All righty, back to the phone lines.

George, are you ready? >> I hope so. >> All right, we got Sarah who's in Las Vegas, Nevada. What's up, Sarah? How can we help today?

>> Hi there. Good afternoon. Um

I my question is pretty much on u garnishment but also of course your guys's um awesome guidance.

>> Hit us. >> Um my husband uh pretty much pays like

all of our all of our bills and everything. Um recently his wages have

started to be garnished for a car that we voluntarily let go a few years ago.

So now we are um you know I downloaded the Every Dollar app and I'm trying to do the budget and it's like in our face that now we're short on bills. So I'm kind of scrambling looking for a job. Um I have a side business but you know I I obviously need like stable income um to bridge that gap. So I'm kind of scrambling looking for work. Um,

and we just re we've been married for a while, but we just kind of recently started um joining our accounts because of this and working on the budget. Okay.

>> Um, I guess my question is should we or can we do anything about the garnishment? >> How much is the garnishment?

>> Um, I don't know the exact details yet.

He's he's working on on getting that information, but I think >> Oh, so you haven't you haven't seen it actually happen yet? It's just been ordered.

>> No, no, no. Is these wages are being garnished already? I just don't have like the physical paperwork in front of me. >> Do you know the the balance that's owed?

>> No, I don't. Um >> Okay. >> I don't. >> Well, there's some homework there because once we know that, we can develop a game plan to pay it off aggressively using future income. I'm guessing you guys have nothing in savings.

>> We don't. He did, but he does not have anymore. So, we neither of us do.

>> What do you guys make?

>> Uh, well, he makes so before the garnishment uh 43 a year and then after

it would be like 31. So, a month is

basically 2600 because they take it directly from his paycheck. Yeah, it looks like they can uh take up to 25% of

your income on a garnishment. So, this this does have the ability to really mess with you guys. Um >> there's nothing you can do about it. I mean, the lender sued you and they got a judgment that you owed the money and this is next step because you're not paying. >> Did you guys Did you ignore the when you were served like did you ignore this or how how did you get to this point?

>> Yeah, it got ignored pretty much.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, we're not doing that anymore going forward. What's the status on I mean obviously you guys are married, the money's separate.

>> It's like you kind of know what's going on, but you don't know the amount of it.

H how are you? I think my question for you is what's the plan to come together to solve this because going forward what

I'm seeing big picture is we've got to get on the same page and when life hits

we can't ignore it because it just snowballs and makes it worse which you're finding to be true right now.

>> Um >> absolutely. I mean, um, we're pretty

much, uh, honestly, I'm just, we're getting into taking the biblical approach of marriage and finances and everything and, you know, joining our accounts and and being one and that's moving forward, but we do have unfortunately a lot of fight.

>> What other debt do you guys have page?

Um, we have a lot of debt in collections, but right now it's it's uh

it's kind of just our monthly our monthly um our monthly bills like you

know the mortgage, the phone, and cars and everything. >> So, is there anything you can sell in this picture where you could free up some payments and even walk away with some cash? Yeah, because there's there's still a chance that they might settle this for you if you can get with the creditor and say, "Hey, >> if I give you this much lump sum, >> can you call it paid in full?" >> Yeah, that's not off the table.

>> That's That's what I was thinking about.

He's kind of like hellbent. I'm sorry for the reference. He's kind of like bent on, >> well, let's let we have equity. And I have no idea how that works, but he's like, we'll just call the mortgage company and see about that. >> So, he wants to take out a me.

Uh, I I don't know what type, but I just

called to Inquire and they pretty much were like, "Well, you have to run your credit anyways, and we don't even have the credit." >> Good. I'm glad >> we have we don't have >> Please do not use your house as a piggy bank and go into more debt thinking you solved the problem. >> Yeah, debt debt doesn't solve for debt.

The only way you can solve debt is to pay it off with actual earned money. Um,

so here's here's going forward. So, how's the job search going for you?

Um, well, it's it's going. I recently I

haven't worked for a few years at a 9 to5. It's kind of my own business. I kind of, you know, let that go because we need money, but I've been I've been hiring to I mean, applying to pretty much everything within the past few days. >> Today, today I want you to know any job will do for the time being.

And >> can you be a server at the nearest restaurant? We're not talking about a fancy salary job right now. We need any money in the door. >> Mhm.

And then the first order of business is to try to stack up.

Um, and then uh try to put scrunch

together as quickly as you can 60 to 70%

of of what that is or even 50%. Start

small and say, "Hey, go to the creditor directly and say, "Hey, I know we don't have the full 8,000, but we have 4,000 today. Take it or leave it." and and because they're in a position at this point, >> they're not expecting to get much, you know, this garnishment of wages, you know, that they're going to get what they can, but I would at least try to settle it. There's no guarantee there, but I would try that. And then from here on, yes, the solution is income.

There's not going to be a magic wand here. If you guys pull out a heliloc or any other type of loan or personal loan, you are just kicking the can down the field and honestly making things worse for you in the future.

line in the sand and saying no more.

>> This this behavior um of you over here

and me on this side that cannot continue. This idea of not facing our financial issues headon cannot continue.

And I love what you said earlier, Sarah, that you guys are kind of trying to get on to this approach uh with your life and your money. So keep doing that. Matter of fact, I haven't offered this in a long time, George. But if if you guys I love Financial Peace University.

I love Every Dollar, but I love something about like I'm like getting deep in this. So, if you want to get into that, I would suggest it. Local church. I love that for you guys. Uh we're also going to give you Every Dollar if you like the digital approach.

But I think you guys could really use some people around you that are doing this and doing it the right way.

uh FPU uh financial piece always has some OGs in there that can kind of guide you. >> They've been there. >> Yes. And that's what you guys need. This is a complete overhaul for you

>> and I think it's something to be excited about, you know, >> and on top of that, Total Money Makeover. We're going to send you a copy of that. So, in between classes, you're going to be reading this book together and it's going to fire you guys up. And if that doesn't light a fire under you, I don't know what will.

>> But that's the game plan. It's no new debt whatsoever. Freeze your credit so that you can't do something as dumb as taking on a heliloc. Then we're going to cut our expenses down to nothing and every dollar will help you with that.

Then we're going to try to increase our income as much as possible. And that gap, that beautiful gap is called margin. You're going to use all of that to attack these debts to save up a lump sum to try to get these other debts out of collections because that those debts are next. They're going to come suing you for those.

And so it's like whack-a-ole right now trying to clean up these debts. Mhm. But the good thing, what we're teaching you, Sarah, is you, it feels like you don't have control over the situation, but you can gain control over it very quickly.

Something truly happens when you sit down at night, George, and you do your budget for the first time. And even if it's in the red, for you to just list out this is the money coming in and this is the money going out. For a lot of people, it's the first time they've ever seen it. That >> Sarah mentioned that.

She said, "We did the budget and realized, oh my gosh, we're in the red every month. We can't keep doing this." >> Yes.

And that for me is the biggest piece.

It's going to take time. It's going to take time to turn this around. But then to be able to say, "Okay, now I'm reading the total money makeover. I'm going to f my FPU class." All of those things combined is exactly what you need

to stay motivated. Light a fire under your butt. keep listening to the Ramsay show. That's the type of stuff that Sam and I did when we were paying off our debt. And you kind of have to just jump

off the cliff wholeheartedly and really just submerge yourself in a new lifestyle. >> Just have faith that this process works because 10 million people have gone before me and have done it.

>> Yes. >> Not is you got to go all in. You got to do it by the book. And there's a reason it works. >> There's a reason it works. I'm excited for you guys, Sarah. This is the precipice of a brand new beginning. And be sure to call us back and let us know how things are going or if you need any help whatsoever.

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

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Hey, welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fair Windows Credit Union studio. It's myself, Jade Warshaw, next to George Camel, continuing to take your calls. And we have Austin who's in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hey, Austin. How are you?

Hey guys, how are you? Can you hear me?

Okay, >> absolutely. Fire away.

>> Excellent. Wonderful. Thank you for taking my call. So, I'll try to be brief here.

Um, we're a family of five with three kiddos and uh we have just under $100,000 in debt, not including our mortgage. Um, and while we can make minimum payments and are trying to tackle one of them, we just we feel so defeated. And our youngest has just been diagnosed with a lifelong medical condition and our oldest um is on the spectrum. And so a lot of our credit card debt went to helping get him resources that we that he needed.

Um but we just, you know, you close our eyes, you wake up, and we just have all this debt.

>> Oh man. Yeah, that's tough. That's that's tough to go through, especially with the medical challenges. Um how's your income in all of this?

>> Yeah. Household income is 164,000 a year. >> Good. That's a great income. You got You mean you got a big pile, but you got a nice big shovel to help clean it up, which is nice. Can you tell me like the breakdown of the debts?

>> Sure. So, it's a little bit like death by a,000 cuts. So, uh we've got roughly

$40,000 in credit card debt between two credit cards. And again, those were some of it was poor financial decisions on our part, eating out, etc. But a lot of that was the medical stuff. Um I have $20,000 in student loans.

And we have two car uh payments. One of them is 28,000 and it's a relatively new car and the other is 8,000. So, it's kind of close to being paid off. >> Okay.

Now, you guys' income, is that just you or do both you and your wife work? >> Uh, we both work.

>> Okay, great. Okay, so what I'm looking

at straight off the bat is maybe the first car that's worth 28,000. Um, what's it worth?

>> Yeah, that's what's tough. Um, so we did the Kelly Blue Book value and if we got like the perfect buy or perfect money, it's probably at about 30,000 even. So we'd make a little bit, but then we're like, well, what do we do for a a decent safe car for her? Because she uh is from a different country and so she's learned to drive as an adult and so she's a little anxious if the car doesn't have a lot of those safety features to help her out.

>> Interesting. Um, that might be solved with some driving lessons, but I think that you could find a if you took the 2000s, do you have any cash saved?

>> We did, but we unfortunately depleted that. So, we're it's kind of embarrassing to admit that, honestly. So, we have to build that back up.

>> Don't be embarrassed. But what what would be a goal if coming away from this call is if you can sell that and and pocket 2,000, obviously you're going to need to put $1,000 aside for baby step one, which is just that starter emergency fund. But then I'd very quickly be trying to scrge together, I

don't know, 7 or 8,000, and and just get a a a car that is safe, that is reliable, that gets her from point A to point B. Um and honestly, driving

lessons. >> Yeah. I mean, any any modern car from the last decade is going to be safe to drive. It doesn't need all every single bell and whistle of, you know, the lights on the >> on the mirror to let you know there's a car next to you and all that. >> A lot of that's just paying attention, too. Um, >> but you guys you bring home 10K a month or so.

>> Yes. And that's um and she might actually get a pretty healthy raise coming up and I might too actually. But we can't bank on that. So this is like and that's where the thing is because we are we are really tackling I think we're doing it backwards but and I was going to ask you about our high interest credit card but we're doing like the opposite of the snowball now that we realize what the snowball is and they fix that but we've been trying to throw money at the high interest credit card and we're throwing like almost two grand a month at that and the minimum payments everywhere else.

Yeah, >> we're just >> I I I'd swap this around. I'd swap this around.

>> Um that we do it twice monthly, but it's altogether about $500 a month.

>> Yes. So if we said, "Hey, 2,000 from the sale and instead of throwing 200 $2,000 at this credit card every month since it's not even the smallest debt, what if we pocketed that for two months in a row, now we have $6,000. We can find a very reliable car. Surely there's someone in the community that you know.

Ask around your church. Ask around at work. Surely somebody's selling something or knows somebody who is. And I I like a used car like that because then I can get a more accurate picture of what the background of the vehicle is.

plus to add that to now the margin of the 2,000 that you were already throwing at the debt, now you got $2,500 a month that you're pounding this debt with. >> And it knocks out over 25% of your debt right there. So now you're down to 72 making 164. Now it's a solvable problem and you're not going to be driving that car forever.

So I don't want you to think, you know, oh my gosh, this is a death mobile. I can't drive this.

>> Yeah. And your current car is worth $8,000 and you guys have been driving that one just fine. So that that would be a full argument for that that choice to be made. Second thing is uh I I love that for you. Second thing is I think you did say that you're getting right side up on doing the debt snowball the correct way which again by balance is what I would do. So what's the smallest balance that you have laying around and you can include student loans in that too by the way.

>> Yeah. So I guess the other one would be that $8,000 uh my car which we we could probably take care of pretty quickly. So it's the $8,000 then it would be the two credit cards. Um, our highinterest one actually is at about 15,000 and we um

we're planning on using my wife's bonus to knock that down 3 or 4,000, but maybe we'll rethink that now with this.

>> Um, then we have another credit card at 21,000. >> Okay. >> Um, and my student loans at 20,000.

>> And the student loans is just one big chunk. It's not divided into smaller loans. >> It actually is divided in smaller loans.

I don't know exactly what those breakdowns are right now, but they add up to just shy of 20,000. Yeah, I'd look into that because again, the whole method behind the madness of the debt snowball is small wins. So, if you can, you know, say you look at that student loan, my guess is it's probably broken into $5,000 chunks. I don't know. I'm just going maybe by semester. But if you can feel that, oh, we knocked out 5,000.

And you can see it as four pieces instead of one giant chunk, it does feel like it's almost the feeling of I don't know if you're like this, but I love making a list and being able to check things off my list. It just feels great.

And it's the same way with debt. And so if you can look into that tonight and you might find, oh, this is broken into four or five smaller loans, that is going to do so much for your psyche while paying off this debt.

>> So, we talked about income, we talked about the debt. The last piece here is the expenses. And I can tell you guys have just been in survival mode, which means we're just going to eat out cuz ain't nobody got time to go get groceries and cook. We are stressed.

We're exhausted. >> That's exactly right. >> Right. And so it's not because you're maniacal, you're just human beings.

>> No. And yes, and I will say since December, we've gotten, you know, really intentional about cooking at home, not eating out, doing all those things. And we've seen a pretty good difference. But yeah, it's just the exhaustion after the end of the day. That's the temptation.

>> That's where the spending happens. It's scrolling in bed at 11:00 p.m. and just adding to cart and going through the drive-thru. And so that's really going to be a great opportunity for you guys to create even more margin because you have a great income.

We can all agree. You know, if you were 18-year-old Austin, you're going, "You're going to make $10,000 a month take-home one day." You'd be like, "We are rich." That's right. And instead, you're looking around going, "We don't have enough money to pay our bills." And so, we've got to take some serious action because once we do clean this up, you guys are going to be in such great shape to build wealth for the rest of your life once we're done with this debt. And then you'll be able to keep up with the medical needs.

That's an even better reason to become debtree. When you got those little kiddos as your why, there is nothing that will stop you. And that's one part that we didn't really talk about, knowing what their medical needs are going forward. And you may need to have a fund that's there to the side if you know, hey, we're spending, you know, a certain amount, a couple hundred dollars on this a month or maybe even a couple of thousands of this over the course of a quarter.

Uh, I would certainly have that money set aside aside from your normal emergency fund, just knowing, hey, this is part of our budget at this point.

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All righty then. Back to the phone lines we go where we have Steve who's in Chicago, Illinois. Steve, happy to have you on the phone lines, my man.

>> Thank you for having me on.

>> You're welcome. Um, how can we help?

>> Um, so me and my wife, we got married in

2024. Um, she's originally from the

Philippines and she still has her family there. Um, one in particular is her mom

and her mom as of recently has come on

some financial problems um that we want

to help support her and we're we're blessed. We're in a good spot. We can do that. The problem is that she lives with

her son.

>> You're breaking up a little. >> Broke up on us, Steve.

>> Can you hear me? Okay. >> Yeah. Just repeat what you said.

>> She lives with who?

>> She lives with her son. So, my wife's brother. >> Okay. >> And he's, I think, 42, 43 and hasn't had

a job in many, many years. And the

problem is he's basically siced off everything that she had for retirement.

M >> where the problem is we want to support her but we don't want to enable him at the same time. So we're not really sure what to do with that situation.

>> Well at that point you're just enabling his behavior.

>> Exactly. >> So all you'd have to do theoretically you could talk to her and say hey here's what we see mom and this is your your wife talking. Uh we see that you could use some help and we'd like to help you.

Um, the only way we can do that is if you're separate from my brother because

what we've observed is not good for you and we cannot give you money knowing that it could enable him. But my second

question to follow up that is how is it not enabling your mom or the mother-in-law? Is she unable to work?

Like tell us more about that part >> because this sounds like a forever problem. >> Yeah. >> That you're going to have to manage >> if you start giving her money forever.

Yep. So, she's retired. She had a good

nest egg. Um, they actually sold some land and soldiing and stuff um where she had a decent amount of money. And we've had that conversation with her of like, hey, she actually had a a condo in a different area, but she refuses to leave the brother behind because she's worried about him and his life and stuff, but it's hard to explain it to her um to where we want to support her. But at the same time, you know, we see the enabling that's happening. You may not be able to >> whether she knows or not.

>> Yeah. And that's where we're at.

>> If you know, giving uh having stipulations or having um something that you need to see in order to know that money is going to be spent responsibly, that's not mean or wrong or unfair. It's

just honestly being a financially responsible adult. And if you've observed that she has not been responsible with her money and that there is a person who is taking advantage of her, but she refuses to leave that situation where she's being taken advantage of, there's not a whole lot that you can do whether that other than say, "Hey, this offer is here if

ever you want it, but these are the terms of it and you know, we love you, but we can't let you know, Billy Bob,

who's 43, continue to take your money and therefore take power money and um

take it or leave it.

>> How much are you giving her right now?

>> Um right now we've given her $1,000, but

um you know that's No, that right now it's been one time. >> Okay. >> Um she she actually um reason she's in

dire straits and she reached out to some of her sisters for money and then her sisters my wife's aunts reached out to us to let us know because she didn't want us to know about it.

>> Shame or what?

I think so. I think that's the biggest thing because she knows that her son is

a problem. >> Yeah. >> But everyone's healthy. Is everybody healthy?

>> Yeah, everybody's healthy. >> And how old is she?

>> I think she's 70 that I mean,

>> so yeah, going out and getting a job is not going to be the easiest thing here. >> I think if you wanted to give and you knew the exact needs, you can try to give directly to those needs. So, if it was, I don't know, covering her taxes and insurance for the year or covering groceries, you can make sure she gets a gift card that's, you know, in her control so that he's not just getting access to a bank account.

>> Absolutely. >> So, there's there's things you can do to try to separate this. But again, it's up to her to not enable him at that point and somehow turn this into him getting this money anyways. But, if you can give directly to the need and that way he can't get access, that's probably the best way to do an ongoing gift.

And it's also okay to say, "Hey, we can do a onetime gift of $5,000. We can't give you any more money.

Is somebody else uh providing for him

that he's able to kind of do the other things he needs to do? He's just living there.

>> Yeah. So, I mean, he got access to her money for a long time. Um, he actually sold some family land. He lived off of that for a while. Well, he's always going one to to another thing after another. >> Is he an addict of some sort?

>> Nope. Nothing like that. I >> Where is he blowing all this money?

>> We don't know.

>> That's the part that scares me. I just want to make sure that your mom is in a safe environment as well or your mother-in-law. And that might be a conversation between your wife and her to figure out, >> you know, what really is going on underneath the surface. How can we really help to give directly to the needs if we're going to continue giving at all?

>> Yeah. cuz right now I would pause until you have more information cuz right now you might be throwing money into the abyss. >> I would agree with that. And probably the most important thing out of this entire conversation is whatever you guys decide, you both have to feel good about it, you and your wife.

It has to be something that you feel like yes, this is money well spent and that she feels like it's money well spent because all of this is sheer generosity.

that reason, um, it's not something that must be done that is really yours to solve, but out of the goodness of your hearts, if you're doing this, that's a great thing. I just would not want it to cause any resentment, uh, between you two who are married. So, >> good advice. >> That is a tough one. All right. Thank you for the call. Let's go to Jack, who's in Kansas City, Missouri. Hey, Jack. How can we help?

>> Hi, how are you guys? >> Good. What's up?

So, I um am looking to figure out what I

should do with a decently large sum of

money. I I don't have any debt. Um I

basically have $200,000 um of like liquid cash that I've saved.

And then I just had a a judgment um in

court that is awarding me about $530,000.

Wow. Like I said, Yeah. I mean, I've paid I've always been really um I mean, I've been longtime followers of the show, so like um I've always been very careful. Um I don't have any credit cards. I paid my student loans off. Like I don't have anything that's outstanding. >> And you'll be sitting on three quarters of a million dollars.

>> Yeah, pretty much. >> Wow. How old are you?

>> I'm 28. >> Single? >> Yes. >> Are you renting?

>> I am currently I'm currently renting with my brother the past couple of years. So that's where I'm at with that.

Cool. >> Is there any like health or anything going forward that you need to know about? >> Um, no. I mean, I'm I'm a pretty healthy guy. The one thing that I did do um just at the end of last year was because I wanted to get a good start on it. I did open like a Roth IRA and contributed like 7,000 just to the for the past year just to get a good start. >> Yeah. Great. >> Um but still I have all this that I feel like I could do something with.

>> Yeah. I would split it across a few areas. Number one is giving. I think that's a wise thing to do with any amount of money that you get. And the other one would be saving and investing.

And so that could be, hey, I'm going to max out another Roth IRA for the year and I'm going to put a chunk of this into an investment account, like a brokerage account, non-retirement, just to have it grow with compound interest or compound growth. And then the final thing is you may want to buy a house with cash or upgrade your car with cash to a reasonable car and enjoy some of that money cuz locking in a house in cash at your age is one of the best wealth building moves you could make.

>> Yeah. Find something about that cuz Yeah. I I bought um my my car with with

cash like a brand ordered it brand new car and I loved driving that away knowing that it was mine. Um and then I thought about the house thing. I just I didn't know if that would be like a really wise move to go for that.

>> Yeah, don't go crazy. But, you know, I don't know what houses are in your area, but if there's a, you know, a single family home that's I don't know, $400,000, I mean, that's you'd still have plenty left over to invest and give and enjoy. And so, I would do all three things with it. I would spend, save, invest, and give.

And if you do all of those things, you won't feel like you have a flat tire. But I love prioritizing a home. I mean, home ownership at 28, you'll be a unicorn, especially with a paid for house. So, that's the key is try to do everything with cash for the rest of your life.

You've already been doing that. That's going to be the best way to steward this money wisely. >> I love that idea. And just because you can afford a $600,000 house doesn't mean you need that.

Just get what you need for your life in this moment.

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All right, Manny is in Orlando, Florida.

Hi, Manny.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> You're welcome. How can we help today?

>> So, um my mother is 65 years old. Uh her

house is paid off. Uh she collects u social security and uh she uh kind of a

house hack. She's got two studio

apartments in her house, uh, which she rents out and that's what she uses for income. Um, however, uh, she has very,

uh, low retirement savings, about $50,000.

Uh, so my my idea was to, uh, outright

buy her house, uh, so she can retire in

the house and and have some money to

enjoy her retirement. And so that was

kind of my question whether this would be a good thing. Um and my concern is

that she would uh she would remain um

continue to rent out the couple studio

apartments within her house and whether you know um that that would be advisable

uh thing to do.

>> So you'd buy the house so she has the cash spending money. um she'd continue to live in it and you're just kind of would b your time until the day comes where the property would roll would be empty and roll back to you.

>> Correct. >> How much is the house worth?

>> I would I mean on realtor.com it's about

$400,000.

>> Okay. Um before I ask you if you have

the ability to do this financially, how much how much is her social security and how much does she pull in from the rent?

All right. So, she pulls in about $2,000 a month for the rent. So, $1,000 per studio. >> Uhhuh. >> And her social security is about $1,000 a month. >> Okay. And she's able to cover all of her bills.

>> She is. >> Okay. So, why why do we need even more if she's doing fine?

>> Well, just because she's only she only has 50,000 um no 401k, just $50,000 in a savings

account. Well, what's she going to use the extra money on if her if she's living life? Increase her lifestyle.

>> Exactly. To be able to enjoy retirement and be able to travel. That's what she does. She just likes to travel.

>> Understood. >> Uh so that's >> but I feel like at this point you feel responsible for her lack of retirement.

Well, it's a way for me to, you know, get be get back to her and and uh not not necessarily responsible, but I um I

I I have a couple rental properties and so I'm just in a position where where I

can um >> How much money do you have >> in some way? Uh I've got about 300 cash.

>> Okay. So, you couldn't afford it in full right now anyways?

Well, well, I could um but um you know,

my idea would be to >> take on a mortgage, >> you know, if it's No, no. If it's, you know, if it's worth 400, my my proposal

would be like to do it like a 300 and

and be responsible for taxes, insurance,

and all that. >> That feels messy >> throughout the years. >> So, you want her to give you a 25% discount?

Well, you know, we could we haven't really discussed numbers and I honestly I could pull the 400 if um if need be.

Um >> but that's all your money.

>> I mean, is that all I mean when when George asked you how much cash do you have and you said 300, is that all your money? All your cash that you have?

>> No, no, no. It's just a liquid cash that I have. You know, I could >> give us a full snapshot. Give us a full snapshot. Tell us how much debt you have. Tell us about your give us a bigger piece of this so we can understand how many properties do you have, how much cash do you have, what's in your retirement. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, my my home is

paid off. Um and then I have two rental properties that are also paid off.

>> Okay. >> Uh and then and then liquid uh cash in

the bank is 300.

>> Okay. >> And then I've got a couple liquid accounts um that are 200,000.

>> Okay. All in all, liquid, you know, cash

and couple accounts that are pretty liquid is is 500,000.

>> Wouldn't it be cheaper just to if you want to bless her cover the taxes and insurance on that house instead of you buying it?

>> Well, I mean, paying taxes and u that that

wouldn't really help her or afford her to be able to travel how she wants to.

But she can't afford it is my fear. And right now it's sort of you're artificially propping up her life. Who knows how long she could live another 30 years, right? She's in good health.

>> Or if the if the if the renters don't want to live there anymore, right?

>> Or if she blows through that money, >> then that's another concern I had. Yeah.

>> And so these are all real. >> She might be resentful. >> I would rather you give her 10 grand a year to go travel. That would be a cheaper option with less mess than you buying this house, but she gets the rental money and it's kind of in your name, but she's still living there.

And then what if you need to sell it one day for whatever reason? Now you got to evict your elderly mother. I just think it's just too messy to get involved at this stage. >> Messy.

>> Yeah. I I just personally wouldn't do it. >> She doesn't need the money. And if she wants to travel, she might need to go make some, you know, do a part-time job in order to come up with the money.

or if she wanted to downsize and sell this home and buy a smaller apartment or, you know, there's there's options here that I think she has uh that she may not want to do uh nor really need to do at this point.

stepping in and trying to do this is just going to lead to more problems down the line. And for that reason, I I agree with George. I'd rather spot her some cash as a gift, maybe here or there for a trip, um if you want to do that. But

uh she's got options here. She's sitting on a nice piece of of property that she's paid for over the course of years.

So, unless somebody did that for her, that lets me know she's got some wherewithal on being able to handle her money, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. And those those were those were my hesitations as well as >> Would you be It does sound pretty messy.

>> Would you inherit the property solely? I

have three I have uh three sisters and

uh kind of talking to them about this idea. They were um at first they were not so happy with it.

>> Mhm. Because they were going to get a piece of that upon inheritance and now they don't. >> They'll get a piece of whatever's left of mom's pile of money which will likely be gone if she's traveling the world for the next, you know, several decades.

And the truth is here, I mean, >> the the hard part with this is we all have a picture of what we want for our loved ones. All of us do. And sometimes

that's just not the reality. And there may be I mean I this sounds harsh, but it's just it's just I'm I'm just being a realist right here. She may not get to travel as much as she wants to. Her life her life and her lifestyle does not afford that to her.

And all of us face that every single day. I there's things I would love to do right now, but I can't afford to do it. So, I will either have to change something about my financial situation. I'll either have to wait.

I'll either have to save up. I'll either have to Right.

for me to try to clean up and make perfect.

>> Yeah. >> What if there was a compromise? Does she want to travel solo or is she liked experiences with other people or family?

>> Both both ways. We, you know, whenever we take a cruise, we bring her along.

Uh, so, but she does also like to travel

solo to like South America and Central America kind of thing. >> That's cool. I'm wondering if there's a compromise here. I'm wondering if you go, "Hey, mom, once a year, I'd love to take a fun trip with you.

You get to decide where we go. Here's the budget." >> So, now she gets to live that dream without you being intermingled with the finances and mom's a tenant. Now, I like that plan better cuz I I can tell you're a noble guy. You're a great son.

You want to bless your mom. You want her to have a great life, but I don't think artificially funding it by buying her house when she could sell it for more is the move.

you make this happen. >> I agree with that. And as long as you put really strong and clear boundaries and very clear expectations if you do decide to do these trips, you got to be so clear with that. Otherwise, next thing you know, it's like, "But I want to go to the Bahamas." That wasn't part of the deal, Mom.

Heat. Heat.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Shelby in Indiana. I have two children under 5 years old who are beginning to get invited to birthday parties for kids in their playgroups and daycare. This can get pretty expensive depending on how many parties are scheduled, and it's hard for me to justify spending a lot of money for children we're not especially close to.

>> Well, so much more information I want here.

>> Yeah. >> Uh, number one, I don't know her financial picture. Now, if she's in baby step two, drowning in debt, it looks like a lot of, "Hey, wish we could make it >> or a real simple gift that the kids make." It can be, it doesn't have to be a $15 gift. Cuz the truth is under 5 years old, they're about as excited about a cardboard box as they are about the thing in the box.

>> Yeah. I mean, I those little Matchbox cars. >> Oh, I love this.

Like, they're not $6. Like, they're not expensive. I would >> I would, >> if you're in debt, if you're in Baby Step 2, I would for sure cap the amount of birthday parties that we're going to, and I would cap the amount that we're spending. And it's just like you said, something small. a $5 gift. I think that you could do that and that way your 5-year-old is not feeling like, >> you know, I missed Isabella's birthday party. >> Yes. And I will say these birthdays have gotten out of hand. They have.

>> It used to be simple.

>> Like I remember it was just like come over. We're going to get a few pizzas. Now it's like you got to get like a white bounce house. It's going to be like a progressive dinner. It's out of control. I'm going to one, Jade, for my two-year-old daughter got a kid in her

little daycare, and there's a full-on petting zoo with exotic animals.

>> You want to know where I come from? I come from the roller rink, George. >> That's what I'm talking about. >> The sticky carpet, questionable individuals, bad pizza, like take >> 10 bucks for unlimited skate. >> Okay, take me back to that. But yeah, this business, don't get caught up is what we're saying. >> I would cap it um just out of principle.

I don't think kids need expensive birthdays. I think they need stable parents. So, unless this is a kid that they're really close to, and maybe the kid chips in, if they want to go to all these birthdays, all right, you're going to do these chores, get a little commission, >> and you can use your own money to buy whatever toy you deem fit. And that'll they'll feel the pain.

They'll go, you know what? Uh, maybe I don't need to get that $20 toy. >> Can I tell you something else I've adopted? >> What's that?

>> Now, hopefully this doesn't get >> This is going to go viral. >> All right, here's what you do.

>> Oh, and it's cute. So, it's cutesy. If

they're three years old, you put three crisp dollar bills in the card. If they're four years old, and that way it's like it's thoughtful cuz you're thinking about, I know how old you are.

I went to the bank and I got four crisp

bills. That's effort. >> So, there's effort there. And it's very like if you're an auntie or an uncle or whatever, it's just a very cool way to send it in the mail or if it's a buddy's birthday and it's kind of like this is this is what their family does.

Like this is what the Waraws do or this is what your I I love that idea because it's thoughtful but it's not breaking the bank. They're three years old. They don't need >> Well, my favorite part is it doesn't add to the clutter. >> It doesn't add to how many toys these kids have.

>> Yeah. And then on the way home they'll stop and they'll get a fun drink or they'll get a, you know, stop through the driveway. But I really like that plan. And kids love money.

It's like magic to them. They do. >> They think it's a million dollars if you get a kid $5 bill. >> All you got to do when you do the magic trick when you pull the quarter out from your ear.

>> Yes. >> Listen, dropping like flies. >> I like that.

I would set a cap and a budget because that is teaching your kids a whole lot more. We don't just unlimited do whatever we want no matter the cost. We make a plan and we stick to it >> like that. All right, let's go to Savannah who is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Savannah, you are on the line, my friend.

Hi, Jaden George. How are you doing today? >> Excellent. How can we help?

>> Thank you. All right, I'll make this really quick. So, I have a son who was in high school and he has a vehicle that I purchased for him and he is responsible for some of the car expenses. And here's where my question comes in. He was in a car accident that was pretty hesky. The repairs um was about $3,000.

He did borrow $450 from me and did repay

me back after about two months. And here's where my question comes in because I'm really struggling with this every day. Um, as soon as he handed me

the money and it got to my hands, I felt so guilty. My first thought was, "This $450 meant more to him than me, and I'm really struggling with this feeling. Did I handle this correctly?" >> Um, I I understand why you did what you

did. Like, I understand your heart behind it. It sounded like you wanted him to have some skin in the game and to have some responsibility in what took place. The the part where I think you may have gone wrong is you caused him to engage in his first like debt. Like I

owe my mom and now what you guys experienced is kind of like the borrower slave to the lender. >> It changes the relationship. >> Exactly what I felt.

>> That's exactly what I felt. I thought >> you also taught him a great lesson. Life costs money and you got to be prepared and it's not always you're not always going to get bailed out.

>> It's not the first time he's going to have a $450 bill. And so it's a good learning lesson and you can even have the conversation. Hey, the way I approach this, I wish I would have done things differently. I wish I didn't say you you owe me this money, but we had to do what we had to do.

And what I do want you to take away from this is emergencies are going to happen and it's very wise to be prepared to have the savings in the bank.

>> Now, didn't you say didn't you say it was 3,000 in repairs?

>> It was. >> So, you covered the difference.

>> Uh, no, he did. >> Oh, >> I gave him some money, you know, for Christmas time toward it. I think about $300, but no, my my hardworking son

>> Wow. >> paid for it. Mhm. >> Well, way to go. So, he was just short a few hundred bucks and you were said, "Hey, you can I'll cover that. You can pay me back." >> Correct. >> Uh-huh. Yeah. Maybe. Um,

>> and he didn't ask for the money.

>> He did. No, he did. >> He said, "Hey, I'm sorry. >> I don't have enough." >> What I And then you can think about this.

what I might do cuz I I tend to think that some of these lessons stick the when a when a parent makes what they feel to be a mistake and they go back to their uh children and make it right that really sticks. Um and I think it's something that is so good for parents to do for our own hearts but also for our kids to learn that it's okay to make mistakes.

I might say, "You know what? I didn't practice something that I believe in, which is I don't I don't borrow money and I don't engage in debt." And I'm sorry that I put you in that situation.

The best time to give people money is if it's a gift. And so if I was going to give you this $450, it should have been a gift. And that's on me. And I might give him the money back.

>> Okay. >> And he'll always remember that.

>> Yeah. >> And he'll remember that as a lesson. We don't borrow money, we give money.

>> Yeah, that's exactly what I thought after the whole thing happened. But I wanted to see another perspective of it that, you know, should I return it back?

Where I was thinking, >> you're a great parent. Like, the fact that you're even mulling over this is I

mean, it's pure gold. Like, whatever whatever you decide to do, like you'll be a winner. But >> a quote unquote bad mom is not even having this conversation. I release you of the mom guilt officially, Savannah.

as if you needed that for me. But no, you're incredible. You're doing a great job raising this young man. And I think this is maturity building.

>> I think so. >> Character building. It's not punishment.

You're not doing anything cruel.

>> No. >> Things happen. A kid's going to wreck a car. >> Yeah. And by the way, don't don't don't you feel any guilt over it, you know? Uh

I think just being a parent is making

mistakes daily. Like that's the way I feel about it. >> You know, when you grow up and you're like, "Oh, my parents were just figuring it out." Bro, I feel >> cuz now I'm in that stage and they look at you like you have all the answers and you're like, I googled it. >> Yeah.

Oh, yeah. >> At least we have Google now. I don't know what our parents did. >> They just followed their instincts.

Uh, I overrode my instincts and instead I Googled it." Um, >> AI is now raising our kids. That's a frightening thought. >> Oh boy. Oh boy. But the point is, I think that as parents, when we make a mistake, it's okay to go back and correct it. Specifically when it comes to money, because then they understand this is trial and error for everybody.

And if you make an error, you can always go back and make it right again. And I tend to think that those uh lessons stick the most when you're a kid and as an adult. >> Yeah. You don't want to always rescue them because that creates dependence. And so instead, you give them some responsibility. That's going to build some strength. So don't remove the consequences. Your job is to raise a capable adult, not a child who doesn't know any better.

Well, welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Let's go back to the phone lines, George, shall we?

>> I'm in. >> All right, Greg is in Texas. Greg, you are on the line, my friend.

>> Thank you'all for having me. >> You bet.

>> How can we help today?

>> Well, I am recently engaged. Um, and we

are extremely excited about that. We have, um, I've listened to y'all for years, and I've talked with her about

budget. I've talked with her about our finances. We've gone back and forth and

we agree on just about everything. Um, however, there's one thing where I'm having a bit of a moral quandry.

Um, we both own our own homes. Um, and

the plan is to sell my house and move in to hers. >> Okay. >> Um, which I'm comfortable doing. She

wants to do some repairs. Um but

ultimately she doesn't want me on the deed to her house >> that >> of this current home.

>> Okay. >> Um she has witnessed her mom go through several divorces and struggle with home

ownership. So worst case scenario, she wants to make sure that she has this paid for home. She doesn't she has a mortgage on it currently, but she agrees

with me to get out of debt and kind of snowball through everything and work the baby steps and that's fantastic. But she doesn't want me on the deed.

>> She trusts you, but only to a point

>> pretty much. >> Okay. And there is a mortgage, you're saying, but she's wanting to pay it off.

>> Well, she wants to us to move forward and pay it off. Now, I have a unique opportunity. I'm about to the business that I work for is about is possibly going to sell and my proceeds from that will be about a half a million dollars in cash. >> Amazing. That's awesome.

>> So, thank you. Um it it's a boon for me.

I've never had that kind of cash before.

>> Yeah. And um my question is do I do we

just work the baby steps and I act like that money is set aside and it's in a investments and other things or do I try

to attack the debt and get out of debt as soon as possible? >> I mean there's two things here. I I I'm

of the mind yes if you guys are married your finances should be together. The if you have the extra money to do things like pay off mortgages I'm all for that.

But before we even get to that, I do want to go back to your wife because on the on the bigger scale, um you being on the deed, you know, we can make the argument of, hey, you're married after a certain point. If anything happens, the house is going to pass to you anyway, blah blah blah. But what we're really seeing is it is a trust issue and it is due to something that she experienced, which is completely valid.

past relationships and what we saw growing up, all of that informs how we view money. And so, yeah, when you get experts like uh George or I giving you a simple piece of advice, everybody's going to filter that differently through what they've experienced. And some people are going to go, "Yeah, that makes sense. No problem." And other people are going to go, "Whoa, absolutely not. I I can't." And so what

what she needs to understand is it's very easy for a good excuse or a good reason even to become a bad excuse. If she allows that to persist and doesn't get the help that she needs to process through that, it's going to keep her from having the marriage that she ultimately wants. Um, before we get off the show, I'm going to give you a copy of my book, What No One Tells You About Money, because I think that's really going to help her process those emotions around what's going on, so that you guys can have the best possible financial picture and best possible marriage in this whole thing.

Um, do you think she'd read the book if you gave it to her?

>> I do. >> Okay. Do you think it's something that she wants to work through?

Um, I I think through our continued

conversations, she might be waning on it. I'm not sure, but um >> Well, you don't seem like a gold digger, Greg. You're about to acquire a half million on top of whatever else you currently have. So, >> and you want to put it towards her house, which is awesome. >> So, is she not going to get a dime of anything you're bringing into the marriage? Cuz that's what it's turning into.

>> Well, no. I we I believe in joint finances. My parents, they operated that

way their entire lives. So, >> but you would agree it's unfair that you bring all of this into the marriage. You help pay down the mortgage in the future once you're married and you have no claim to the house on paper.

>> That That's what I'm That's what I'm saying. Am I being a butt or am I >> If you ask her, hey, if you were in my situation, how would you feel about all of this? You're not being a butt at all.

But I do think this is an opportunity for you to understand her a little bit more. And I think it's an al I think you both have opportunities here. What George is saying is absolutely right. It's not fair. Like you're in a situation where you're thinking, hey, like hello. But again, back to the first point, you saw parents who managed money just fine, right? So of course that in informs the way you view this. You're like, yeah, what's the big deal?

Understanding her, who is going to be your wife, is it that is going to set you free in so many areas if you approach this from that. not I'm gonna do whatever you say because what you're saying is broken, but I do want to understand where that's coming from and I want to be an active participant in us working through that and getting to a point where it's as healthy as it possibly can be, right? And I think if you approach it that way, she's going to put like her eyes are going to turn into hearts and she's going to love you for that >> if you really dig into this cuz she is operating out of fear.

So the most loving thing you can do is get to the root of that and build the trust with her that her fear is valid, but the outcome is not something that is a possibility cuz I'm guessing there was a very specific reason her mom got divorced or multiple. I don't know the story, right? >> Mhm. >> And do you know the the reasons behind it?

>> Yes, we've talked about it. >> And was it financial? Was it infidelity?

What was at the core of those?

>> Several different uh two of those already. Yes. Um I it I would say infidelity and >> financial. >> Okay.

And so the sooner we can be aligned with our money values and our principles and we say, "Hey, this is how we're going to operate as a family." You guys are already light years beyond probably where her mom was. >> Yeah. >> Right. Relationally, financially.

And so that's I think some good premarital counseling is necessary before you guys move forward on this.

my book. >> Yeah, absolutely. This is something you guys are have the look, it really is an opportunity for you guys to work through this and how great that this is popping up now before you're even married versus on down the line when you're all set in your ways. So, I think if you both can look at it that way, I think that is a a winning combination there.

So, thank you for that call. That's a tough one. >> It is a tough one, George. And that is the truth.

You know, these conversations, obviously, we make no bones about it here that money should be a joint effort. If you are married, it should be combined.

both checks goes in there, and there's no side accounts that is like, well, I put the money for the mortgage in here, and I keep my money. No, both checks go in and both people are aware of the monies. both people are on the budget.

If there are um assets, both people are

on those assets. And it's very easy to

say that um from a healthy perspective,

but anybody who's been burned hears that and goes, "Oh, yeah. Don't listen to them. Protect yourself." And that like human nature is to protect yourself. But >> but I mean part of marriage is letting go and you're risking something in order to be married in this financial merger.

That's right. So, think about it like mergers and acquisitions, right? Except you are acquiring everything she's got and she's acquiring everything you got.

>> So romantic. >> It can't work without that. If you're like, "Well, I want to keep my toys over here, but I want to play with your toys over there." That's not marriage.

>> Doesn't work. >> That's just fancy roommates. And if you're splitting the bill with your spouse, you don't have a spouse. You have a roommate with benefits. >> Oo, >> I'm calling it like I see it. >> Got them.

Hey good folks, Dr. John Deloney here.

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All right, back to the phone lines we go where Melanie is in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Melanie, you are on the line.

>> Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call. Um, I have a question that would be in the category of radical generosity. And my question is twofold.

Um, I want to give a very generous gift

to my sister-in-law and her husband and their two best friends. And I first my

question is twofold. First, I need to make sure that my husband is on board. He says that it's excessive. And second, if I can get him on board, how do I get this gift to them without making it weird in our relationship?

>> What's the gift and what's it for?

>> We we want to send them the four of them to Hawaii. Or I do anyway. Why?

>> Well, um they have experienced some health issues. Both somebody in each of the couples. Um my sister-in-law is on the other side of cancer and the husband of the other couples had his his own health issues and he's working his way out of that. Um my in-laws pl they

planned on doing this trip together when they were counting on an inheritance that they were going to get and that fell through. So, they no longer are going to be getting that money. We have the means to send the four of them and I

would like to pay for the resorts, the

excursions and all. Maybe say you guys get yourself there with the flights and we'll take care of everything else.

>> I love that. How wealthy are you?

>> Well, I mean, we're we're fine. So, we

we've retired >> and um I have a pension that is covering

all of our needs and we have 2.1 in

different types of savings and we have our house paid for and we're you taking our own trips that you know we're kind of living the what we wanted to do in our own retirement and we would really like to >> what will it cost >> to do all this for your friends and family? I think I think 25,000 would

cover it and I have 27,000 coming in

July for our early retirement bonus that is that'll be coming in. >> Nice. So, this feels like found money was taken out of >> Yes. Yeah. And I just feel like, you know, it's one of those where Dave says if you could put it in the middle of the >> you could burn it and burn it, you would you wouldn't you wouldn't even notice it. I feel like it's in that category.

>> Yeah. This isn't even like a percent of your net worth. No, >> it's like a percent of a percent of your net worth, >> right? >> I just love your heart on it, too.

>> And is it just is your husband like blindsided by this? Like, is this a big surprise that you're like, "Hey, what if we drop 25 grand to send all these people?" Like, you're not even going on the trip. So, he's like, "I want to go to Hawaii." >> Well, we're we're we're going in September, so >> Okay, good. >> Um it's not like we don't ever do I mean, we went to Greece and so we had some some really great trips planned for ourselves. Um he does kind of give me a

hard time because he's like, "Oh my gosh, you'd give away the house if if you didn't put bumpers on the >> Well, there's usually one person who has, you know, a little more of that generosity muscle and one person who's a little more like, you know, saver. What else could we do with the money?" And that's totally normal. I don't think he's a bad guy. Have you gotten to the root of what he's feeling about this?

Um, I do think that he's concerned with

um maybe what would happen like if like how do you say we would like to gift this to you >> and could that be a problem like you know I don't want to make it weird because we are very close and >> I don't think it's weird knowing the cont.

It's not like you're saying hey you guys are so broke we just want to send you on a trip. It's, hey, you guys have had a lot of life hit you, and you know, my husband and I, we were trying to brainstorm things we could do, and we just thought the most fun thing to do would be to send you guys on a trip, and we'll cover blah blah blah, you guys cover the travel, and you know, that's what we decided. And it's more of just like it's up to them if they want to block the blessing, but it's not you guys making it weird.

>> And I also love that you're sending them. It's not like we're going with you and then the whole time it's kind of like, all right, >> this awkward force like, "Thank you so much for everything." Now, are the couples going together or it's like the the in-laws are going on the trip and then your two best friends are going on a separate trip or is it like a group of them going together? >> Best friends. So, it's our in-laws and their best and >> their two best friends.

Okay. So, the four of them together. >> Is he worried that it feels excessive because that's clearly a lot of people a long distance a lot of money.

going to feel like a flex? >> I think so. And you know, we've we've kind of grew up in a generation where nobody talks about money and you know, you don't >> if there's income inequality. I you know, I don't want that to be >> Yeah. >> between us. >> Well, the other question I had is are they even going to be able to cover the other expenses? Are they in a good financial spot?

>> I think so. M >> um you know I I they you know they they

they don't seem to be hurting for money but they definitely live fertily at the same time you know but but they you know we've done things together and it's not like they are complaining about money. They've been generous to their sons before on different occasions. So >> they're not like drowning in >> tight. >> How would you do it? Is it writing a check or is it >> like like practically how would you do this? I hadn't thought that far that far

because I hadn't gotten to the whether or not we should do it or >> could do it yet. >> Um I'm open to ideas.

>> Uh yeah, I like Let me first say this. I love the idea of being generous. I love that you've seen that they've gone through a struggle and they could probably use a break. I I love that so much.

>> This is the living live like no one else part of living like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. You guys are doing that last part which is highly encouraged and it's the most fun you can have with money. >> Uhhuh. And so the way to there there's multiple ways to do it.

I think that's less exciting and more just like all right, we're going to give them the debit card number when they go to book, >> right? >> It's not it's not like it's rocket science to pay for the trip. >> Yeah.

versus kind of what George said.

>> Yeah. I would try to do it directly to the trip. Otherwise, it's like, well, we can get a lot of groceries with this money now. Maybe the trip will get delayed.

>> I do have a friend that I do have a friend that's a travel agent that is planning our trips. >> Oh, nice. she could plan it and I could just pay her. >> I love that.

And I think that that also gives them the ability to choose when it's a good time for them. So, if you said something like, I don't know, you sit them down, you say, "Hey, we really want to do this for you. We love you guys so much.

So, whenever you're ready, um, you know, get in touch. Yes. Like, do this. do

not, you know, and make sure I I love that because then you're deal agent.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's less awkward because you don't feel like you're directly >> involved in this. You're just sort of the the, you know, fairy angel.

>> Yeah. And and maybe you let them know, you know, here's here's what we're giving. You know, feel free to get what you want, but like my husband and I, we want to put like x amount of dollars towards this. And that way you've kind of said it, but it's not uh in a weird

way. >> Yeah. And if they decline it and go, "Hey, you know what? we're actually not going to be able to take a trip this year for whatever x reason. That's okay.

You still offered it. You were still generous and you didn't just like write a check that sat there and you have to rip it up now. >> Mhm. Now, on your husband's part, that that's the one that's going to be tough.

And I'll tell you, you know, my husband and I are to George's point, there's always one person that's like, "Give it all." And the other person's like, "Hold up. Like, chill out for a second. Like, let's talk." Um, so maybe ask him say, "Hey, if this feels too >> elaborate, what what what do you think?" and maybe you guys can meet in the middle. Um maybe it's somewhere in between all of this that that feels more right for both of you. Um and just be open to that as well.

>> Okay. Okay, that sounds great. I really

appreciate your help. >> Yeah, you're an awesome person. >> Yeah, thank you for the call. >> I do think the ratios help me emotionally cuz I'm probably more like her husband where like the sticker shock I just go that just feels crazy.

>> That's like Sam Warshaw. Yeah. >> And then you go well it's 0.02% 02% of

our total net worth and we're gonna make that much in compound growth this month.

Yes. Oh, and also it's a bonus that she's getting from her early retirement.

>> Yeah. It's found money in many ways.

>> Yeah. That's girl math right there.

>> So, okay. I don't know what you and Whitney do, but ever whenever there's a moment where we're thinking about giving an amount, uh this is this is my strategy. I always say to Sam, I'm like, "Okay, be praying about like what this amount is." >> Oh, that's good. >> That's the first thing.

>> Be praying. There's some spiritual conviction right there. >> It's just like, hey, I want to know that we're both we both allowed, >> you know, the Lord. >> Well, then it's like, hey, it's up to God.

>> It's up to God. >> Whatever he puts on my heart. >> Then what I do then what we do is we count to three and we say our number at the same time. >> I love that.

>> It is always hilarious. And then he'll go, I knew you were going to say that. And I'm like, then why didn't you say the same number as me?

>> He likes to be contrarian.

>> Yeah. So, let's do it. George on on this trip the 25,000 that she wants to spend

on the count of three. I'll tell you what I think she should spend and you tell me what she you think she should spend. All right. You ready? >> Yep. >> 1 2 3 25,000.

>> Boom.

>> God told me. God told me to.

If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No one Else cruise is back March 14 through 21,

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Richard is in Nashville, Tennessee.

Richard, how can we help today?

>> Hey, question for you. I'm considering building an apartment on my property for

my daughter and son-in-law to live in until they can uh purchase a home.

They'll pay rent while they're living there. And my two options I think that are good for me is a heliloc or I can do

an auto loan on a vehicle that's paid off. Um probably looking at about 50,000

on the heliloc and can probably get about 40 on the car. I do have the cash on hand, but I think a loan would probably a better idea. I'm just just curious if there's any pros or cons one way or the other. >> Well, there's all cons.

>> Okay. >> All of them. >> Why would it be a good idea to do the title loan or the heliloc?

>> Well, because if I used cash on hand, I I'd not have any cash on hand anymore.

And I've got a ton of equity in my home.

And um I I owe nothing uh any the only

thing I owe on is my home as far as you know in debt with anything. Um I don't

know, maybe it's not a good idea. That's what I'm curious about. >> Well, that those if it's a true title loan, I mean, those are the it's like a payday lender. It's like 25% to 300%

interest. You could lose the car. I mean, the repayment terms are terrible and you get payback in 30 days. Unless you're talking about like you're talking about taking a loan out against your car that's paid for.

>> Well, this is through the bank and it's basically um >> the car's collateral though.

>> Uh yeah, the car is collateral. I' I'd rather lose a car than a house, though.

So, I'm just >> Why is any What's What's so urgent about this? Why can't they just get a normal apartment? Why do you have to build an apartment for them to live in? Tell us more. >> Yeah. Well, um, both of them work

ministry and, uh, they're coming out of

that and so they're not financially

set to do that. Uh, the apartment would be an asset, >> uh, to my current situation. Um, I had I had considered doing it before >> because uh, about two years ago, my father became ill, all of a sudden had to come live with us. Mhm.

>> We just bought an RV and let him live in the RV for a time. Um, and so it just

kind of put on the radar maybe we should have something uh like that available.

>> But what's the long-term plan for them?

It feels like we're just sort of temporarily subsidizing their lifestyle because they're not making good incomes.

>> Yeah. >> So, if they're going to be in ministry long term, they got to figure out how to put food on the table and cover rent.

>> No, I agree with you on that. And so I I'm just wondering if I could help with that. I mean, >> well, here's the thing. I just don't think you can afford it. I I'm always the last call the lady wanted to be like wildly generous. So, we love generosity here. Um, hear me say that. But if you

have to put your home up and your vehicle up for collateral and you're still paying off a mortgage yourself, you simply can't afford to do so. I you're you're, you know, cutting off your nose to spite your face at that point. It's it's it's putting you in a horrible situation and it's putting them in a bad situation because if this goes south in any way, you are going you have

a lot on the line that you can lose.

>> Sure. Yeah.

>> There's just too much risk here. If you want to bless them with like a one-time gift, you can do that. You can write them a check and maybe that covers a certain, you know, number of months of rent for them. But again, I would try to help them actually become independent long term because otherwise now they need you. Now they're codependent instead of independent. And ministry is tough because you don't make a lot of money. It it's why we call it ministry.

But they need to figure out a way either it's bivocational, which is a lot of people in ministry. It's what they do. They have another job that actually pays the bills and they do ministry with their free time. And so I think helping them craft a plan is so much more helpful than anything you could do financially for them at this point.

>> Okay. Well, that's that's helpful insight. Um it certainly gives me

a perspective to mle over and think about and um that's that was my objective and calling to find out, you know, uh am I missing something? Is there um you know, red flags that I'm just not seeing? So I appreciate your input with all that. >> Absolutely. Yeah. you're trying to do it just a nice good thing in a bad way and

then you're you're trying to justify it by saying well I'm also building an asset for me on the side and so I think that's sort of clouding the judgment here because you're looking at it as an investment but if you have to go into debt for it and put your car or home at risk which is what's happening with either of these loans it's a bad idea and if it hurts to part with that much cash because you'll be cash poor then it's also a bad idea so I think that's it's a good gut check to say if I paid cash for this would give me some pause and anxiety.

>> And then the truth is we just can't afford it right now. Not that you never can do something super generous. >> Yeah. It's something to aspire to possibly.

>> Yeah. >> You know, and I think that's hopefully you'll think long and hard about that, but please hear George and I say we would not do this. And by the way, if you don't do this, it doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you a person who doesn't support ministry.

It just makes you a person who is a financially responsible adult. Okay, let's go to Sam who's in Maryland.

>> Sam. >> Hi. Um, thanks for taking my call. Can you hear me? >> Yeah, we can. What's up?

>> Um, so I'm a 25-year-old. Um, I'm hoping

to get married this year to my boyfriend. Um, he's also 25. So, I'm uh

two years postgrad. I'm working full-time and he's a full-time um pharmacy student. Um so the question is that if we were to get married um this fall or winter um essentially we would be financially independent. Um he's fortunate enough right now where his parents pay his pharmacy school tuition.

>> Nice. >> Um if we chose to get married um that financial support would end because we'd be um independent adults at that point.

Um and that would be four semesters of

tuition at around $17,000 per semester.

>> Okay. Um, so the question is, um, do we

delay potentially getting married until after he graduates, uh, or do we take the risk and take out student loans, uh, of a significant amount, uh, and get married sooner than later?

>> Is there an option C? Because A and B suck right now.

>> We can both agree on that. I would not take out student loans. I would not delay marriage until this is all sorted out because of, you know, his beneficiaries here. What I'm confused about is why the parents are saying, "Hey, the day you're married, no more.

>> You're on your own." Even though it's not like he has a job all of a sudden, >> right? >> Yeah. He doesn't. Um, so so both of us come from non-American families and I think um like traditionally with with both of our cultures, it's understood that you're you're essentially independent um once you're married.

So I don't think our his parents were budging in that on that department. And there I think they also uh both of our parents are for the match. I think his parents would prefer um waiting a little bit longer. >> Yeah.

Do they like you? Is this part of like is this despite you >> from from what I've been told I'm wellliked and accepted.

don't think that's the concern. >> Well, because here's the funny thing. If I'm him, I'm like, "Sweet. I guess I'll just never get married because then my parents will fund my life forever." Do you also see how insane that is?

>> Yeah. No. Oh, yeah. I get that.

>> And what about the like what about as a wedding gift? They go, "Hey, as a wedding gift, we're going to cover the rest of his school, but you guys are on your own for the wedding. Would that be a compromise that they might be willing to go for?" >> Um, I'm not sure. I mean, I think maybe you'll have to talk to them a little bit more. Um, but again, in his culture, I

I'll just like throw that under the bus.

I think like traditionally, um, it would be my family paying for the wedding for the most part. Um, and then we're also

not thinking of something doing anything significant. Um, I guess like we could ask about if there is a gift. I'm not sure. >> Well, what are you making?

>> I make $64,000 a year.

>> Okay. So, the question is on the other side, how do we figure out how to cash flow the 17K a year if that's what it's

going to take? >> Well, that's it's time to Yeah, exactly.

>> So, we got 68K we got to cover if we're on our own.

>> Mhm. over how many years?

>> So he has two more full years. Uh so

four semesters total if we're um beginning this fall. >> Yeah. So you're not going to be able to cash flow that making 64.

>> Exactly. >> And so that we run into a problem here.

And which means he needs to do this slower. You could delay getting married.

I wouldn't delay getting married just for this purpose. But it sounds like he hasn't even proposed yet. And then there's still the engagement period. So there still could be another year, year and a half or two years. That's the question I had is if the man hasn't even proposed, then maybe, you know, that buys you some time right there.

>> Maybe we plan the wedding. When he graduates, the wedding happens.

>> Yeah, I like that. >> Best of both worlds. >> Best of both worlds.

All

right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

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That's rammissysolutions.com/

our Ramsey show scripture and quote of the day. Colossians 3:23 says, "And whatever you do, do it heartily as unto the Lord and not to men." Mark Twain said, "20 years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones that you did do." I like that.

>> Avoid regret. >> Seize the day. Carpey DM. All right.

Kate is in Katie is in Huntsville, Alabama. Katie, you are on the line, my friend. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> Hi. I'm so pumped. So nervous, but so pumped. >> I love it. It's a good combo.

>> Yes. We can't wait to hear what you have to say.

>> Oh man, there's so much. But we'll we'll wrap it up. Um so currently right now,

my husband and I are baby step number two. >> And we have about um $12,000 in consumer

debt that I am about to send a $6,000

payment on. So about to cut that in half. Um and I do Yes. I'm so pumped.

Um, and then I'm expecting to have the

remaining balance done by April. And,

um, I've been working like 25 hours extra every week trying to like pump out

the overtime. And my husband, you know, unfortunately overtime's not available for his job, but we are in full gazelle mode, just running and feeling the

passion. Um, however, I am 41 and he's

45 and we have twin almost 15 year olds

that are looking to get their permits.

Um, I have a car loan that is $40,000

and I'm currently 13,000 upside down on it. >> What happened? You said you had 12K.

>> I I'm confused. >> I'm sorry. I forgot about the car. I >> That's a big one to forget about, Katie.

>> You forget about the car in baby step two. >> I can't forget about the car. I can't forget about the car. That's the whole reason I'm calling. >> Okay. So, 40k loan.

>> 40k loan. >> And you're saying it's worth 27?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Maybe 33 if I'm lucky. Um I might

be get might be able to get 33 for it.

But in the end, I'm up upside down.

$13,000 on it. Um roughly.

>> What's your household income?

>> Um my husband makes 93 and I make 54.

Great income.

>> Yeah, it's not terrible. I mean, we used to make better money, but we moved and total God thing and this is where we're supposed to be. So, we're just trying to keep our eyes on that and and stay focused. >> Yeah. It's like double the average household income. So, you guys are crushing it by, you know, America's standards, but when you're in crippling debt, it doesn't feel like that. >> So, what's the main question?

So, my main question is I got kiddos that I'm going to need to get cars for.

Uh, is it because I I know Dave says if

you can pay the car off within two years, then it's potentially up for

keeping, right? Mhm.

>> So, um, do I keep the car or do I forgo

the car because I got my kids potential driving coming up >> and then I have one more wrench to throw in there. >> I'm currently living on folding tables

in my kitchen cuz we bought a home that needed repairs and it ended up being a

disaster. though. I have been in a year in this house with no kitchen.

>> Oh boy. >> So on top of everything else, I'm surviving and it's fine. Like we >> say folding tables.

>> I have no cabinets. I have no kitchen counters. You have a sink. >> I have a >> I have a utility sink in my laundry room. Bubbles. I know >> you're making salad in the bathroom. >> There's a There's a porta potty out back that we all use. It's a good time.

>> Okay. There's a lot did redo all of the plumbing. We did redo all of the electrical because our inspection came back horrific. And actually, no, the inspection came back fine, but once we started going through things, everything had to be replaced. Everything was a firehouse. Plumbing was about to go.

>> Oh boy. Okay. >> So, is this going to be like $50,000 to get this thing up and running?

>> No. So, we've got most of it up and running. So, we dug into our nest egg, which is half the reason we're in our our just >> you like robbed your retirement accounts. >> No, no, no, no. Just the equity from our house that we sold in another state.

>> Okay. >> Oh, okay. A secondary house.

>> Yeah, we sold we we used to live in Colorado and we sold everything to move

here. >> Days of our lives.

>> It just keeps unfolding. >> The bad decisions keep going with you wherever you go. You had a house in Colorado. You sold that. You had a sum of money and you've been pulling from that.

>> Yes. >> How much was it? And how much do you have left? >> Oh, I don't have any left. You know, like we're down to our $1,000 emergency

fund and we're slowly getting rid of >> How much was it originally? >> That credit card. >> Uh I think it was like 50.

>> Okay. So, here's we're we're here's where we're at. So, the $40,000 car, you just told me now you can't keep it.

>> Um, because of all too many priorities.

>> Yes. >> And as it relates, and I'll just give you a couple of thoughts. Even aside from the kitchen malfunctioning, I'm thinking, okay, 40,000 in this car.

Surely you have another vehicle that's worth something. And then you've got these kids. We don't want more than half of your income in vehicles going down in value. So, you're likely going to have to lower this. Um because you've got about 60 you've got about uh 70,000 that

you can spend on vehicles, right? So all

four of you having vehicles, somebody's going to have to shift down >> and it doesn't mean you should have 70,000 in vehicles. That's just the upper upper tip top limit if you really want it. And right now >> and my husband's cars paid off

car paid off. >> Uh it's a 2020 Chevy. Um, so that sounds

>> it was we got it in co, but we got it

during co

paid off. >> But the point is we're going to go down to the credit union. We're getting some sort of loan to get out of this $13,000 and then uh because you owe 40 now. So if you take a loan for 13, 13 is less than 40. That's a better deal for you.

>> Plus, we need some cash to get you a car to get from A to B right now. >> Yeah. So maybe try to get the loan for 18 and you spend 5,000 on a clunker.

That's what I would do. >> And then give that to one of those kids that are driving cuz they're inevitably going to make it even more of a clunker.

>> Indeed. >> And then you can upgrade with cash once you guys have it. And so that's up to you how you want to prioritize. Hey, we got to get a car for Junior. We need to get some cabinets in this kitchen.

>> Uh we got to clean up the other $6,000 of debt that you have left.

>> And if Junior has to wait a while for a car, by the way, he'll be he or she will be strong. Like it's okay. >> I shared my parents car a long time.

>> Yes. Yes, absolutely.

>> Well, it's two of them. They're twins.

>> That's okay. They can ride together over it. >> Get them a tandem bicycle. You know, that's that'll look cool going down the road as twins.

>> Oh gosh. >> Yeah. Either way, if they have to wait for a while while mom and dad get their life squared away, that is fine. They will survive that.

Um, >> absolutely. >> Now, absolutely. >> Now, the the kitchen, let's talk about finding the money. So, how much did you say?

50,000 or that's how much is it going to cost to just get this in working order? Yeah. >> Oh, the kitchen.

almost everything except countertops and cabinets. So, honestly, we priced >> I know, but we've priced in um we've we're looking at about 7,500 and then

done with the No, I'm not a bougie girl.

Okay, it sounds bougie, but I'm not.

>> Okay, good. So, um I >> I'm not looking to make it crazy.

Well, if you if you get rid of this car and you knock out the other 6K, you can cash flow that 7500 pretty quick and cash flow a couple of cheap cars as well. So, this is all very doable. We just need to start putting things in order. And I think this getting rid of this car is going to give you such relief >> and later on you can get you a nice $30,000 car with cash.

But right now, it's sinking you guys. >> Yeah. By I mean, put it to you like this. by the end of summer, you'll be driving, your kids will be driving, and you'll have your c your your if you go hard in the paint.

You'll have your kitchen done. And I think that's that's a great feeling. Uh the one thing I will kind of throw out there cuz it's hard selling a vehicle, it is hard on the ego. >> Mhm.

>> Okay.

up. >> Yeah. >> You were driving >> and you go from the nicest car you've ever driven to the worst car you've ever driven overnight. >> Absolutely. >> That's brutal. cuz people are like, "Oh, hey, what happened?" You know, they're at Chili's wondering what happened to Bob and Susan. They they solved their Escalade.

>> Yes, >> my butt's cold. >> But the good news is it doesn't matter what other people think. You guys are far beyond that at this point. If you're if you're Gazelle intense, that is one lesson that you have learned.

>> If you got real friends who have seen your kitchen, they'll they won't care about your beater car. I'll tell you that much. >> That's right. That's right.

But for anybody who's doing this journey, just be prepared to not care what other people think is what we're telling. >> It's a superpower. >> All right. All right.

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## 12. Before You Can Win With Money You Need To Make a PLAN | November 4, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union [music] studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

I'm Ken Coleman. Thrilled to be alongside Jade Warshaw, who is just launching the pre-sale of her latest book. Oh, we'll talk more about that.

And it comes up just about on every phone call. [music] So, good stuff there. You ready to go, my friend?

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>> Hey, guys. How are you guys doing?

>> Doing well, sir. What's going on?

Well, um I'm in a situation where I used

the you know those credit cards that have the promotional rate of 0% for 18

months to 24 months. Mhm.

>> So I did that I did that about 18 months

ago and um it's almost that time where

those high interests are going to kick in start kicking in again >> and >> yeah and I have about I I don't know if

I did my math right but I think I have around 40,000 or 50,000

>> in total debt but in the credit cards that have the 0% promotional period

right now is only only holds Um, uh, I

think it's 12,000. >> Okay. So, 12,000 is on the the really bad card.

>> Yeah. So, 12,000 is on the 0% right now, but it's about to expire, the promotional rate, >> and I have like a 10,000 on um

a personal loan that's like around 14% interest. M um and then I have other

um you know like the car I still owe 16,000 but um and then I have like a

medical debt that I put on a care credit

which is like 22%.

So, I know I can't transfer at all,

>> but I was my question is is it smart to,

you know, try to do like a big personal loan so I can consolidate majority or all of this debt or should I try to

leverage the 0% um promotional and just keep getting newer credit cards and and keep repeating the cycle every year and a half. >> Yeah. In theory, mathematically, I could see why you would say that because you're thinking, "Hey, I'm going to move it to a place where there's zero interest." But you've already told us that your behavior would not support that that decision, right? Because you

got a 0% and you had a certain amount of

time to pay it down before it shifts and you didn't do that, >> right? I Yeah, I couldn't do it because of reason. I don't know. Just um my

teamwork with my wife is not the best.

>> So, >> listen, there's always going to be a reason. >> There's always going to be something that pops up. I can tell you that right now. Um that's why I don't think this is good for you. I think for you, feeling that pain is a good thing because you're going to have to do this the oldfashioned way, which is listing these out smallest to largest. By the way, how much was the medical debt? Was that like five? How much is that?

>> The medical debt is a total of about

uh remaining is 14 plus

another 4,000. So about $18,000 is what's left. >> Okay. Um Okay. Yeah. 50. So yeah, you're

going to have to list these out smallest to largest. That's how we do it. And just tact tactically, you're putting minimum payments on everything. And the reason you're doing that is because you don't want anything to go into default. You don't want 1800 pay me calling you. But then all the extra money you're going to put towards the smallest. So tell us about what your income is and so we can figure out what your margin is.

>> Yeah. So I've been trying to do that, but I've been struggling to even get the

$1,000 emergency fund, but I'm hoping that by end of next month I I should

have that already. >> What's causing you to struggle with that? Oh, it's just um kind of like that bad

communication with with my wife. Um

>> yeah, but what does that look like when you say bad communication? What is it?

You say we're saving $1,000. She says h no and goes out and spends the money anyway. What what's happening?

>> So I tell her my goal is for us to save a th000 emergency fund before starting to attack these credit cards. Um and and

she'd be like, "Okay." But then as we're

going about our lives through the month and we run short on money, um I tell her

like we can't, you know, be spending and then something happens. Um

like I don't know, like maintain

Marcus, Marcus, Marcus, Marcus, Marcus, Marcus. I'm jumping in real quick. I'm not going to get in the way of the of you leading him, but >> Ken, I need you to go on and get in there. >> I got to speak to something.

This is about the second or third time in the call you said, "We have a communication issue." You don't have a communication issue. You have a plan issue. You guys don't have a plan. >> In other words, when you say to your wife, "Hey babe, I I'd like us to get to baby step one and save $1,000." She goes, "Okay, great." But there's no plan by which we're going to do it.

There's no change of behavior in order to meet the plan. >> There's no plan. So, I just want to quickly jump in and say you got to change your language because this is not semantics.

her is that we've got some want to but we don't have any how to.

>> So, I hand the ball back to my colleague. But that's the problem. So, you need to listen about how one goes about creating a plan and executing on the plan. It's not a communication issue. Stop saying that.

>> I agree. I think it's a it's more of a like Ken said, it's a plan issue and are you in agreement on how we're going to do this? >> Um, do you guys have a budget? It doesn't sound like it if you're running out of money. >> So, that's that's what I'm trying to what I was trying to say. Um it's just that so the plan that I had was okay here's this budget of how much we're allowed to spend. But um so that's why I

say this communication issue because when I say okay this is our budget.

>> Let me tell you why. Let me tell you why. I'm going to tell you why. It's because the same way that you're grown and you wouldn't like if somebody came to you and said here's what you're going to do. You wouldn't like that very much would you?

>> Mhm. >> That's that's there's your problem. Cuz somewhere in that your wife is going, "I'm sorry, what?" Right? You're bring You're bringing her the plan. You're telling her what we can spend. You're telling her that we're saving $1,000.

You're telling her, "This is how we're going to do it." But I haven't heard where there's uh the two of you working

together to decide together. Here's what we think we need to do. Here's how we're going to do it. Here's what Do you see what I'm saying?

So, I think that's where the breakdown is. If you're feeling it as a communication issue, it's not a communication issue. a teamwork issue >> because you you you have counted out your teammate and said, >> "I'm just going to run with the ball and nobody wants to play like that." So that's I think that's what you've got to get to the bottom of. Um you still haven't told me what your income is every month.

>> Doesn't know.

>> Okay. >> That's my take-home pay. >> About We got to remove that word.

>> It's it's a little bit more like 60 thou I mean $6,000 and like $60.

>> Okay. And that's from both you and your wife. Does she work outside the home?

>> Um, her monthly income is about outside.

It's 1,600 or so.

>> 1600. Okay. Yeah. You guys need to sit down tonight. That's your homework. I don't think you really do have a budget.

Maybe you wrote something down once, but I don't think you have an every dollar budget. So, we're going to get you hooked up with that. And the conversation is you take her out. Take her out on the town and you start talking about the things that are important to you. A vision. Start with a vision. Start with a why and see if you guys can connect on that.

>> Here's the three. Can I jump in? >> Get it. >> You got to say where. That's the vision.

Vision is where we're going. Purpose is why we're going there. And mission is how we get there >> together. >> There it is. Three things, couples.

Where, why, how. Figure it out. Get on

the same page or you're never going to win this game.

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Okay, can I get real with a lot of you right now watching and listening and you're you're trying this stuff out.

You're trying like [music] the baby steps make sense. You get it.

But the reality is something's off. And

it's not the math. Like you're working the budget, but life is throwing curveballs at you. And not only is life throwing curveballs at you, it just gets you down. It's It's discouraging because you make a little bit of progress, Jade.

And then all of a sudden, you feel like you went backwards. You go, "Wait a second. I didn't go out and get a credit card. I I didn't go buy a car. We can get some loan." >> Okay. I know there's a lot of people that are going, "Okay, Ken, you you got me." All right. Now, here's the deal.

you haven't failed. But you got to realize that this money game and the way we teach it, you can win, but it's not all math. What am I talking about? In other words, there's real life emotions. You are a human being who's trying really hard to

be disciplined and this is really hard to dig out of this stuff.

>> Absolutely. >> And uh Jade knows this. I mean, my our debtfree journey nowhere near uh the

length and the the amount that Jade and Sam paid off. And it's why I'm excited, by the way, uh about our new book. It's titled What No One Tells You About Money. Well, what is it, Jade, that No, that's a really fun title.

[laughter] Okay, you hooked me. >> Nobody tells >> what what are we not telling people? >> Nobody tells you that the things that we're asking you to do, which is make changes with your money. Uh it's very emotional.

It's not easy. It's emotional to listen to this podcast and now you got to go home and and get your spouse in the same place that you're on and it's conversation and argument and talk after talk. That is an emotional process, right? It's emotional when we say, "Hey, you've got a ton of debt.

You know what you're not going to be doing? Going to a restaurant, getting your nails done, buying anything new, like that. That hurts our feelings. That makes us sad.

It's tough when somebody calls in and we say, "I'm sorry, your mortgage is too big a piece of your income.

Half of what we're facing, Ken, is emotions. And that's why this book is only about that. That's right. Not numbers. The very first Ramsay book, some of you been with us a while going, why this money book? I'll tell you very simply, no other Ramsay money book has ever taken on with an honest, in-depth look at the emotional side of money so that you know what you're going to face.

For those of you who are facing it, she's going to hit it right there on the bullseye and you go, "Oh, I'm not alone.

I'm not crazy. And more importantly, I can get my emotions in check and win with money. So that's why we think this book is so powerful. What no one tells you about money is now available to pre-order. Okay. And you can get it now for the best price, $24.99. And you're also going to get over $100 in free bonus items including the enhanced audio book. Do you sing in this at all?

>> No. But I will say this shame. I'll be honest. >> I will say this. >> A little disappointed. >> Well, I'll say this. All of the chapters or all of the sections are song titles.

So it's kind of a little game there.

But more so than that, even if you're like, "Hey, I don't really Jade care about the content of the book." If you just want tea on me and Sam, it is the whole book is story driven.

>> So, you're going to get story after crazy story of >> Although, there needs to be an a there needs to be a bonus Ramsay episode for me and Stacy to talk about what we learned about you and Sam at a dinner with you. These are two of the most interesting people you've ever met in your life. That's all I can say. But back to the book.

You get so many things including the enhanced audiobook, early access to the ebook. Uh you get a an exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade Warshaw, and also uh a three-week online book club. Access to that with live Q&A.

Ramseyolutions.com/store.

And if you are listening, you got to see this book cover. Uh I talked about this the other day. Uh, guns out, folks. Jade

has been hitting the gym and the shoulders are in full effect here. I mean, unbelievable. To the to the point that I feel like I have to have my next book cover, I got to wear a sleeveless shirt and really rock the triceps.

>> The point was intimidate you into getting your money. >> I'm already in the gym. No, but [laughter] nobody's noticing. They're just like, "Wow, look at her arms." So, I'm just getting that out of the way, folks. She looks fantastic on the cover, but a lot of fun. It's a great book. Go get it now. ramiesolutions.com/store.

Jackson joins us now in Greenville, South Carolina. Jackson, how can we help today?

>> Hey, I'm calling today just with a few questions as far as I'm 20 years old and I've gotten into a bunch of debt and I'm

having a fun. You know, when I was younger, I didn't have a lot of things I wanted and now growing up and getting some money in my pocket. I've been buying a couple of things that I wanted >> and I'm currently $52,000 roughly in debt. Now, is the 52 all with these

toys?

>> Um, well, one of them's my truck.

>> Okay. >> So, that's, you know, my way to get to work. >> How much do you owe on the truck?

>> Uh, it's roughly 13,000 on the truck.

>> What What's it worth? >> Um, >> um, I don't know exactly what the truck's worth. There's a few cosmetic things I need to fix on it from just using it over the years and, um, you know, towing things and doing other stuff with it, >> but I'm sure I could probably get close to that out of it. What's your monthly payment on that?

>> Um, it's $390 a month.

>> Okay. Well, I'm just I'm pulling the facts here so Jaden and I can weigh in.

What other debt do you have? So, that's 13 for a truck. What What other debt?

List them out. >> So, the big one here is is my side by side. It's $31,000 roughly in debt.

>> 31 on the side by side. Oh, boy.

>> Yes, sir. And then um about eight and a half thousand uh on a boat.

>> A boat. Man, you are. Do you have a woman in your life?

>> No, sir. I'm single. I'm 20 years old.

>> Yeah, baby. That's what I thought. 20-year-old single dude who's got all this income. He thinks and he goes out and buys a side by side and a boat. I mean, you don't have that much time. >> Where do you live? Do you have a house to hold all this in a garage at the very least? >> Uh, we've built we've built a house behind my parents on our property.

Yeah. Who's we?

>> So, me and my father built this house.

We built it um about two years ago,

three years ago, and um we built it behind their house on their property.

>> Okay. >> And I stay here and I help out with um a lot of stuff that they need, you know. >> So, you are you paying any kind of rent at all?

>> Uh yes, sir. I pay uh around $300 to $400 a month on rent.

>> Okay. >> Oh, boy. >> But you don't you don't own that?

>> No. >> Your dad owns it? Yeah. >> Well, it it will be mine um eventually.

I mean, we built it. It's It's not like we don't have to pay for it. Like, >> are you are you an only child?

>> No, sir. I'm the youngest of three.

>> So, is your dad >> It was either that. It was either the only child or the youngest. This is all starting to check out for me.

>> Got it. Um, >> yeah. >> So, let me start with the idea that your

current situation, it's going to be temporary. Like, you living in this little offshoot of your parents house, paying $300 a rent. Well, it should be temporary. >> I agree.

I wonder if it will be >> because the minute he he meets a fly young lady, a a pretty young thing. He's gonna be thinking, "Okay, you know, I want to get married one day. I'm going to move off of this site." Like, so I just want to put that picture in your head that where you're at now is not going to be it forever.

>> Fair enough. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, we have limited time with you.

>> Another reason I called. >> What's your question? What's the core question? So, so my question is and going kind of in what she says, I want to get out of debt, but I do not want to get rid of anything.

Um, because and the reason I want to get out of that is like she said, if I marry a young lady that wants to, you know, eventually. >> All right. Go ahead, Jade.

>> Well, I mean, you've got two choices. What's your income?

>> Um, so I make roughly 60,000 a year.

That's without working overtime. And usually I work a good bit of overtime.

>> So, here's the problem. Usually I I might find a way and say, "Hey, if you could, you know, work extra and pay all this stuff off, like, keep it." But in your case, you have too much money tied up in things with motors, and those things tend to go down in value, as you're probably already seeing. You're you're right side up in your truck so far, but you can probably see your side by side going down. You might even see that your boat's going down.

You make 60 and you got $52,000 of debt.

too much. So, if I were you, I'd probably hang on to the truck since you only owe 13 on it. And the rest of it, I'd say bye-bye.

>> Oh, [laughter] bye. Bye. Bye. >> Oh, very nice. I don't even know what a side by side is. >> I don't either, but I know it's something that you drive on >> I'm going to look it up >> on the on the prairie in on land.

>> So, there you >> Okay. >> Oh, it's a golf cart.

>> Okay, that's different.

>> Okay. So, >> yeah, you definitely don't need an off-road golf cart. >> No, I mean, you must let me put it like this. You must sell the side by side.

That's got to go today. What's it worth?

>> Um, so right now as it sits, it's probably worth around 25 to 26,000.

>> Yeah, got to sell that today. And what I would do, you do have some time. Save up the difference. Uh, so that you can break even on it and sell it. And then, yeah, I'd probably keep the truck. I don't think you're going to get anything much cheaper than that. And you're even on it. I think I I'm okay with that. But you got to get rid of the boat. You're 20 years old. You don't need a boat.

Rent a boat. Ah, [sighs] that's tough.

Jade, I might let him pay off the boat.

Get rid of the side by side. Come on, man. >> Well, he's definitely got to get rid of side by side. >> Who needs an off-road golf cart?

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>> [music] >> All right, Joshua is up in Denver, Colorado. Joshua, how can we help today?

>> How you doing today, sir? >> Good. How are you?

>> I'm doing very well. Thank you so much for taking my call. Um, I was in a

really, really bad car accident and at

the end of June, um, I work for Loheed Martin, so luckily I I get to at least

be on disability, but

we're running out of money massively fast. And I'm just horrified that I'm going to let my family down and that I'm going to uh just make problems for us that we're

not going to be able to overcome. Okay.

And I I not really sure what to do.

>> All right. Well, we're going to walk this thing through with you. Okay. First of all, so sorry that you've gone through this. How are you doing physically?

>> Um well, I I was not breathing

unconscious and bleeding out when they put me on the flight for life. They told my mother and my fiance that I would would be lucky if I was a vegetable. Um,

>> and then I also had some other pretty serious complications a couple months later. I almost died twice in the last 5 months. >> Oh my gosh. >> Gosh. >> What are you >> So, how are you now?

>> I'm have a surgery tomorrow. My left arm doesn't really work. I definitely got some unfortunately significant brain damage from it. >> Okay. >> Um. >> Wow. But like I I can't be anything but grateful. Like the Lord has done more than enough to save me and I like I I'm in debt that I could never repay to him.

>> Awesome. >> So I I guess I'm doing okay.

>> Okay. So have you did you get married or are you still planning to marry the fiance?

>> Uh I actually had set up a camping trip

for both of our families so I could ask her father to actually marry her for

officially um right before the crash.

And then the crash happened. So, I I'm trying to figure out how to ask her father to marry her, but yeah, I absolutely intend to marry this woman. She's she's absolutely the best one that's ever happened to me. >> Okay. All right. And then, cuz the reason I asked that question, you said you're worried about letting your family down, but as it stands right now, the only person you're responsible for is you. Correct.

>> I also have my daughter. Um I was She's not my biological daughter. I but I have full custody of her and she she is my daughter. She's my baby girl. >> Totally get it. How old is she?

She is about to turn 15. Um

>> Okay. And do you two live Do you two live together?

Yes, >> sir. [clears throat] >> Do you own a home or are you renting?

>> Um my my mother actually owns the home

that we are renting currently.

>> Okay, that's that's really good news right now. And then um how long is there a limit on your disability payments from Lheed Martin or from insurance, whatever your situation?

I I I don't I don't really know how that works. I'm on short-term disability. My doctor was saying I need to transfer to long-term because he doesn't expect me to recover for a while cuz >> Okay. >> There's there's a lot. >> Yeah. >> And so, what income what do you have right now? We're we're going to start walking through some numbers. What income are you receiving right now?

They have intermittently provided me like $615 per week, but they denied my claim while I was in the ICU and I I was in a coma.

So, I I couldn't really do much about it. >> No. >> And it it really set a lot of things back. So, like they didn't do any back pay on it or anything. So, there was a big hole in finances. Like, I'm I'm

pretty much out of money. I think I have $1,000 left. It's not even a thousand.

>> When you say they denied it, was that when you first when you were first trying to collect it, >> they denied it and now and now they're paying it out or have they stopped paying it out now?

>> So they they have to they like are every

month they are going and like reasserting that I'm still messed up, I guess. So >> it's currently going back through that whole process. So, they're going to reach out to my litany of doctors at this point. >> Uh-huh. >> Um, >> but so you're currently receiving nothing. Is that what you're saying? You're currently receiving nothing.

>> Say it again.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Um, okay. And I'm I'm guessing you have no savings, no nothing.

>> Not anymore. >> Okay. Um,

I was going to say earlier that possibly there was an elimination period that maybe that's why in the beginning they were denying you, waiting for that period to to to go by before they started making these payouts out. I think the only thing How How long has it been since the wreck? You said June or July? >> It was June 30th. So, it's been almost five months exactly. >> H Yeah. Uh but they if they were paying

you at first and then they've every month you said they stop and make sure that you're still fit for el for eligibility basically. >> And who is they? Is it the is it the insurance that you had through Lockheed Martin?

>> It's Sedwick.

>> Okay. But it's through >> it's Sedwick and New York Life. And I have to ver or not verify but do everything through both companies. And it >> Do you have anybody at Lockheed Martin?

It's essentially your advocate in HR that's helping with this >> kind of um it it's really hard like cuz

HR the HR lady that I have been in

contact with she can't really do much I it all goes through Sedwick to be kind of powerless >> and what's that process? Is it just you submitting a letter from your doctors?

What is it that they're asking for that you're not able to provide? to they have

to reach out to all my different doctors and surgeons and verify all of the different um portions of the claim, I guess.

>> I don't I don't really understand what they're doing, but yeah. >> Do you have someone like your mom uh a friend who's also uh helping you with this and being a bulldog on insurance?

>> Um, not really.

>> That's that's what you need. mom is helping me as much as she can and my fiance is helping me as much as she can, but we're all kind of illiterate on this stuff. So, it it's not >> well, >> not very helpful. >> And and and here's the problem.

Neither one of us are insurance experts. And so, the only way we can guide you today uh on this insurance stuff is is tell you what we would do. And if it were if I was in your shoes, >> um I've got a fiance who loves me. I got a mom who loves me.

And it's like they may be illiterate, but let's become as literate as possible, but let's go find an advocate.

either going to become a champion for you or they learn pretty quickly. I'm going to hear from these people 17 times a day. Uh because unfortunately we are in a and if this doesn't piss you folks off about our healthcare insurance, I'm I'm holding myself back >> because I wish I could get every Republican and every Democrat in Congress in this studio right now to listen to this young man because this is the biggest bunch of crap that I have ever heard in my entire life. For him to be going through this, Jade, I understand.

>> Yeah. And we got we got to go verify with doctors all the time. Um this is just what's what's wrong with uh >> and by the way, I'm just going to say this while I'm on it. We want to know why people get angry in this country and do dumb things.

This is why. And I'm just going to leave that there. This is ridiculous.

that that that's the only thing I'm thinking might be happening, which is why they might be asking for a whole new set of evidence that you're still >> um >> But this a full-time job, unfortunately.

This is a full time I spoke with at Cedric last said that short-term disability through them will go for up to 12 months. >> Oh, really? Okay. >> Well, then they need to pay. They need to pay on time. >> True. That is >> Yeah, it could if it it might be 6 to 12 months, right? And so at the six-month period, they might be saying, "Okay, we're re-evaluating." I really think uh

to Ken's point, things like this are a full-time job and it's something that when you call, you record the conversation, you take notes on the conversation, you get the lady's number, so every time you call, you're talking to the same lady. Do you see what I'm saying? You don't have the ability to do that right now. So, your fiance is going to have to step up big time and help you with this and advocate for you because >> like you said, I mean, you're dealing with brain damage.

You're dealing with a surgery tomorrow. It's going to be hard for you. Now, let's talk about your four walls because that's the most important thing. Luckily, you're renting from your mom.

Let her know what's going on [music] and no one's going to take your place from you, right? So, you've got security there.

transportation. It doesn't sound like you're going anywhere unless somebody's driving you. So, I think that you're okay. It sounds like you're surrounded by people who love and care about you, and you're going to have to lean on them during this time. You're not able to go out and work like you once were, and you're up against some real challenges.

And in in this case, sometimes people are the only thing uh that are there to help you in times like this.

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>> [music]

>> Let's go to Detroit next to where Kim is waiting on us. Kim, how can we help today? >> Hi. Um, I am expecting a sixth baby

soon. >> Whoa. Whoa.

>> Wait a minute. >> Did you say sixth as in the number six?

>> That's the one.

Kim. >> Wow, >> you are a hero. >> I know. That's right. >> I am >> Wonder Woman.

>> Um, >> what's going to be the uh age range?

>> We have an almost 12-year-old down to a

one-year-old.

>> My holy moly. >> Would you like me to get on the phone with your husband and tell him to leave you alone? [laughter] >> I mean, if you wouldn't mind, that'd be lovely.

>> Tell him to rewind the show today. Hey pal, leave her alone. She needs a break.

[laughter] >> Well, in his defense, he was gearing up to get a vasectomy and we just didn't get that far. So, >> you love each other. What can you say? >> Have we made that appointment, though? [laughter] Is that on the books?

>> Oh, I wish. I wish. I don't know what he's doing. So, >> Kim, you're a good one. >> You are a good lady. All right. I'm sorry. I'm having a little fun here. I always represent the American people. I say what they're thinking. Uh, okay. How can we help today?

>> Right. So, um, two of my biggest concerns right now is the fact that we lease a car through my husband's work, and we only have the one car, and it is a seven-seater, so not going to fit six kids. Um, my other issue is the fact that we're essentially in a two-bedroom house and running out of space very quickly. >> You think you're in a two-bedroom house?

>> Yeah. Well, my husband, he works from home and he So, he uses one of the pseudo bedrooms as an office. So, my thought is we can plunk him as quickly as possible into the basement where we anticipate getting at least two bedrooms put up and his office built down there.

Um, but there's a lot of work that has to get done to the basement before like rooms and things can be added down there. >> How many square foot feet is this place?

>> It's only 1,400. It's not a lot. It It's

manageable. >> Do we have Okay, hold on. Slow down. Do we have the money >> to be able to make these Okay, so we have I thought that was the case. So, here's the deal. There is no expansion of the house for him. He's going to a place called a coffee shop.

>> What [laughter] What kind of work does he do and what does he earn?

>> So, he we he makes about 75 a year. Um

and the problem is like sometimes he's on the phones and stuff like that. So, like he has to be in like a quiet secluded area. Um >> there's all kinds of sidewalk is it?

>> There's the back alley service for for

Volkswagen. So >> Oh, what service?

>> It's like a customer service >> for Volkswagen. Okay.

>> Um how long's you been doing that?

>> Uh for about six or so years now.

>> Okay. And do you do any work other than working from the home? Do you do anything outside to get a check?

>> How could you? >> So I don't think so. I'm just asking. I fill as much space as I can. Um, when I when my husband's not working, I'm walking dogs. I'm grooming dogs. We We do boarding at the house just to add some extra income. >> You do boarding at the house where there's no bedrooms [laughter] for the children to sleep. >> I I have a great idea. I have a great idea for you guys to make more money.

You guys need to be on the phone with some reality show producer because I feel like I feel like your life is a reality show waiting to happen.

>> Oh man, >> I told my husband we would make a really great sitcom. I know you would. Six kids and 60 dogs. Yeah, >> I'm exhausted already just talking, >> man. Okay. Well, I like your hustle spirit. Like I I like the fact that you're like, "Hey, I'm going to get money doing what I can. I love pets, so invite them over." >> Uh what do you I mean, on a good month, what do you make from your side hustling? >> Um so from grooming, I do about 2,000.

Uh with uh boarding, I do about a

thousand. Walks I are harder for me just because it's more of me out of the house. So, um, usually it's like maybe a couple hundred bucks a month or something like that. So, >> you're pregnant with your six.

>> Tired. >> Yes. Stop walking [laughter] the dogs.

Okay. So, what is the core question you called with today? Cuz now we have a pretty good idea what's going on. >> I'm I'm trying to systematically I feel like the car is going to be the biggest thing as far as what we need to do first.

But, I mean, I looked at places that could offer us a car that's going to fit everyone.

there's like 8,000 on one card that my

husband has that went to collections we have another 5,000 that went to collections that he has. And then um >> And what was this money spent on? Is this just you guys surviving?

>> No, it was that my husband spent it on garbage. >> On what? On what? >> On garbage. >> Okay. Yeah. Because Hold on. I want to pause for a second here. >> Okay. You guys are making enough money.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Between his 75 and let's call it your 24

>> that you guys don't need to be spending money on credit cards. It's not like you need that money to live. You guys are just being ridiculously careless.

>> Yeah. And truthfully, you don't I mean, Ken is right. You're doing all right, but you don't have a lot of margin for error here. I just kind of calculated. So, what's he bringing home? Like 4,800 a month. >> Yeah. Give or take. Yeah. >> Okay. And yours is 2. So, you're 6,800 a month, which doesn't sound bad, but you got there's se there's eight of you guys, so that that goes fast. Um, what are you paying? What do you pay for uh mortgage?

>> 1450. Okay, that's fine. Um, and do you

have like an actual budget? Could you tell me today like here's the margin at the end of every month that we have?

>> We have like about $2,000 margin after

all of like the necessities.

>> Great. Great. So, the key to this um is

you're going to have to save up to get something because you already know that debt's the problem, right? So, you can't turn around and go into debt on another vehicle. How often are all of you piling

in the car to all go to the same place?

>> So, because I'm predominantly a stay-at-home mom, I'm the chauffeur. So, like the kids are with me a good chunk of the day except the older two who are in school. >> Um, but because it's also our only car, if we go see family, if we go do anything, we're taking everybody.

>> Well, guess what? Guess what we're not doing? We're not going to see anybody.

We aren't going to go do anything until we get this thing right sized. >> Yeah, I think so. Everybody's coming to you. My goodness. I think you got a good case to make. >> I think so, too. >> Now, this lease, when is it up?

>> I mean, it's up any minute. Um, so like

we could return it today and they'd be happy with us. But the only problem is though, right now, we're paying 2.75 a month on the car, okay? Which is all fine and well. That includes insurance, tags every year, all of it. um and

they're not no longer making um the car that we have with the three row seats.

So, we can't get that same deal if we return it and get another car. We'd be looking at paying closer to 450 on the next lease. >> Understood. How how how cuz here's the biggest problem is this and and I know it's easy to focus on like the the micro problems like the lease. The biggest problem is you've had $2,000 of margin for the last five, six years that he's been working on Volkswagen, but you don't have any money saved.

>> So, I can tell you what happened with that. [laughter] >> Well, um, Door Dash.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. My It doesn't matter at this point. >> That is the point is that that money has gone to things that are not paying off debt, not saving up for the future. So, today, this is the thing that's on fire.

You guys have got to save up. Start saving that money. And in the meantime, if you can extend this car, if that's possible, I would say do it because you got to have something to drive and you don't have any you don't have any money.

So, that would be my first thing is see what you can save up. What can what can $8,000 get you? What can $7,000 get you?

And you're going to have a beater for a while after you get out of this lease because that's what you can afford.

>> Yeah. Does your husband is he mechanical by any chance?

>> Minorly. Yeah. >> Yeah, I get it. Me, too. I can barely put gas in a car. Um, but here's I'm gonna get creative if I'm you, right?

You know what I'm doing? I'm finding somebody in their local community, their church, who's like really good at working on Chevys or Fords, and they live in the Detroit area, and I'm going to go find me an old Suburban, you know,

something in the early 2000s. No, seriously, that's got that's got enough enough seats and we're going to we're going we're going to go get a $5,000 Suburban and find a good mechanic who going to rip us off, who will give us a deal. My point is, you have to get creative and innovative when you in this situation. And people will feel for it if you go, "Hey, we've been dumb.

We've got some debt we're paying off. We got a sick kid on the way. Husband's going to go get snipped soon. We're solving that problem.

We need we need this. We need" and we share the problem. And we go to the local community, whatever it is, and we say, "Help us." And >> you have a good church home. Let them put the word out.

Somebody make excuses and go, "Well, we got to go this." And I know you're not, but I got to tell you, I'd have hubs watch this back on YouTube. And I'm not knocking you, my friend.

>> You must. >> You're the one that went out and did this on credit cards. Now you need to go out and not sleep and work and pay this off. Go [music] get yourself a car. My goodness. Step up. You got six kids.

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio [music] alongside the incomparable, the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited that you're with us. The phone number [music] for you to jump in isle825-55225LE88255225.

Shakira is joining us now in Washington DC. Shakira, how can we help?

>> Hi, how are you both?

>> We're having a blast today. What's going on with you?

>> So, um me and my husband, we recently got married uh back in June of this year

and we both had a little bit of credit card um debt like have that has been accumulated. We I recently read um the

total money makeover and it's been something that we've been speaking about doing. Uh we already have our thousand dollars saved up and we've kind of figured out we're we're doing the snowball uh right now with all of our all of my husband's debts and all all together just my husband's we have around 39,000 in debt. But the the next thing that's not including our our cars.

So the next thing that we want to tackle um as we do the snowball is looking at

our cars. He currently owes around 17,000 on his car and I owe about 6,000

on my car. Uh car payments is all for

for the both of us it's about $1,000.

Um, and so we're just at like a crossroads as far as what we want to do moving forward. if it's get just sell

our cars, get um some money to pay off the debt and then just kind of get rid of all of our debt within like the next hopefully two years and or if we should

just um because he he I had I had mentioned to him to um just turn in the

cars, get what we can, and then buy something that doesn't include a payment, but he kind of doesn't want to let go of his car. It's something that he has dreamed of having for a very long time. Um, >> when you say turn in the cars, what do you mean by that? Do you mean just take whatever the dealer will give you for them or are you talking about trying to like repo these?

>> No, no, no. Take whatever the dealer will give um to give us for them and then buy another car that without a payment. >> So, what if you just if you're willing to sell the cars, why not private sale them so that you can get more from the sale? >> Yeah. >> And do it right.

That's that's something that we we've we've kind of we've kind of mentioned, but where he's at is where he doesn't want to get rid of it is he has um brought up the point of refinancing his car. >> No, no, no, no. Okay, let's let's let's back up. Let's back up. Okay. Uh first of all, if you read Tony Total Money Makeover, you may have not seen it. It's totally okay. But I want you to start

talking about your debt, not his debt, my debt. You guys just got married. I know it's new. Congratulations, by the way. But but this is now we

>> this is not his debt. So, I just want to mention that. Um it's very important that you guys are unified on this. It's our debt. Now, just a point of clarification. I got the money on the cars. You got 6K left on your car. He's got 17K on his. But you said I thought

that in addition to the cars, we have 39,000. You said his. I'm now saying we >> I thought she said 139.

>> No. No. How much is 39?

>> No. So his So all of our our debt

combined is around 39.

>> Okay. That includes the cars >> that went in. I'm sorry.

>> That includes the cars.

>> Without the cars. That's just credit card debt. [laughter] >> So I was right. So So let Hey, THIS IS

SHOCKING. YOU GOT ONE MALE TALKING, two females, and I'm the only one that's clear on THE NUMBERS. THIS IS WRITE THIS DOWN, AMERICA. THIS IS SHOCKING.

>> I'M TRYING TO FOLLOW YOU.

THE PATH of breadcrumbs here.

>> So, we've got 39,000 in addition to

6,000 car, 17,000 car. Is that true or false? >> True. >> All right. I knew it. All right. Now, what is the 39? I need you to break it down for us. >> Credit cards. >> I know, but I still want to hear the numbers. So, walk us through it.

Smallest to largest.

>> Yes, sir. So, we have a personal loan that has $10,000 on it. We have another card that has uh 12,000. another that

has 11, uh, another that has 1,000, and

then the rest are just kind of 800, 500,

400. >> Okay. And what is your combined income, please? >> Um, my husband makes around 57,000 and I

am going to be getting a new job soon.

Um, because in my current role, I don't

make enough at all. I make around uh around I want to say 12,000 a year.

>> Okay. What is that? That's not even a job.

>> Yes. It's almost it's it's full-time, but it's part-time uh pay. [laughter]

>> Why are you do Why >> You are the sweetest person I've ever met in my entire life. >> Why would you do that to yourself when there's full-time jobs with full-time pay that you could get? >> Well, she is working on that, so that's good. >> Yes. >> What will you make? Do you have any idea? She said she's about to get a new job. We need to quickly move through this. What do you think you're going to make? Do you have an actual job on the horizon?

Um, I've been applying and while I do that, I sometimes uh do a little teaching on the side with like subbing and things like that and that can earn me about a paycheck of about like $1,000. >> Do you have any kids? >> Um, no sir.

>> Okay. Can I just share something with you, Shakira? >> You need to be working. You need to quit this full-time job that has part-time pay.

That's about the most ludicrous thing I've heard all week. And I I'm a real fan of yours, so I'm not picking on you, but I hope you hear how really silly that sounds. So, you need to go get you a full-time job somewhere. I don't care if it's at Target or Walmart or wherever.

And you need to be working another job because we have two potential incomes, no kids, and we can knock this debt out. Okay. This is all possible. Okay.

Take it away. What do they do next?

>> Well, I I am wondering about the $17,000 car. What's it worth?

Um, it's worth around um I want to say 23,000. My husband said it's a it's a 2022 Ford Bronco. And that's his that's his baby. >> No, it's not his baby. >> It's actually a piece of crap. Have you seen the test ratings on this? It really is. >> No, I got to go back to the It's his baby because there's actual real people at home who are struggling financially.

Y'all, you should be his baby. Do you see what I'm saying? [laughter] Put Make sure he listens to this this call, right? He needs to sell it because there's $5,000 in equity there that you guys need today.

>> Do you see what I'm saying? >> And not to mention, what's the payment on that?

>> Uh, it's around uh I want to say like six um 6.90.

>> Okay. So, now we just found, let's round it up for fun. Now, we just found 8,000

plus dollars. Yeah.

>> In a raise. So he could essentially if he was really if he's really down to get

this cleaned up, he could essentially take that $56,000 from selling this car. You guys could quickly save up another thousand or so with it. He's driving a $7,000 beater and now you've just repocketed almost $700 a month. >> Yeah. >> What about that? >> And you're paying off uh those three small credit cards in three months minimum just with that payment. But now that you're working >> harder than you've ever worked before, you're busier than a one-armed wallpaper hanger. That's how busy you are.

>> That That's busy. >> Think about that poor guy trying to hang wallpaper with one arm. That's a lot of work. Focused. >> All right. That's focused. So like this is you guys can knock this out. I'd keep your $6,000 car because that's that's reachable pretty quick and you pay that off. So he's got a $5,000 car >> and you've got a $6,000 car that we're going to pay off. This is all doable, but you guys got to get super serious.

Sacrifice. Sacrifice is the name of the game. You're not getting out of this without sacrifice. There's no getting around it. That is part and parcel to this whole debt-free deal. Can't get around it. There's no easy button. >> Yeah. But no more, Shakira. A full-time job on part-time pay. What are we

talking about here? >> You got to respect your your time more than that. >> Oh my gosh.

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[music]

Hey folks, if the show is helping you out, we'd love for you to help us out.

There's no better promotion in the world than real people who say, "Hey, uh, I'm listening. I'm watching this." So, a share, a like, and a subscribe uh, on whatever platform uh, that you're enjoying the show. We would appreciate it so very much. Thank you. Britney is up next in Portland, Oregon. Britney, how can we help today?

>> Hi there. So, um I have been working at

a company for um about five years now.

And as part of my compensation, I receive equity grants every year uh with a 4-year vesting schedule. And I have basically just been letting those shares vest and then they move into my brokerage where I've just been holding on to them. Uh unfortunately, over the last few years, the stock has uh essentially uh tanked. Um, it's down 60%

from its all-time high, which uh occurred in November of 2021.

And as a long-term investor, I don't need the money. Um, but I've been slowly watching, uh, the value of that position decline and decline. And I feel like I'm at a point now where I'm wondering, you know, should I I cut my losses and uh, sell out of what's vested and move that money into, you know, either a broader index fund or should I try to see it through? Uh right now the total uh value of the position is around $150,000

uh which is about a third of my overall brokerage account.

>> Yeah. And uh the total the average loss

on on that is about 30%. So it's painful. It's emotional and I can't make an unemotional decision about it. So when you guys can give me some unemotional advice. >> Yeah. So first question I have is I thought I heard you say you're a long-term investor and so this is all gravy for you. this company stock.

You're doing your own investing and so you know you're going to be fine long term. Correct. Did I hear that? >> Yeah. That's my hope. That's that's the goal. Yes. >> All right. Then the next question that I would have and I'm I'm answering this as if I were you. So I have no emotion in this. So I'm going to Okay. What would I do? All right. So what would I do is I would say what what do I know? And let's

not look at opinion pieces in the media, but to the best of our ability, let's look at what the company's saying. Let's look at what we can learn from insiders in the building. There's a reason why that stock has gone down. True or false?

>> True. >> Might be a few big reasons. Is there do you know what the reasons are?

>> I I have I have some suspicions. I have some some solid leads, some solid hunches. Um and I you know uh we we

moved away from our core competencies started investing in things outside of our main space. Um we've had a CEO transition. New CEO has been in place for about a year. >> And what pause? So what his new CEO said

about it because the board brought him in to fix this problem primarily. I know

that without knowing what this company is or what they do. I know that. So what is he saying publicly? What is the board saying because you can go look this stuff up. That's public information. So what are they saying? >> Yeah. Uh you know we have a turf round plan in place. I mean the expectation is we're going to continue to see softness both on topline and bottom line for at least another year. But the expectation is that by fall of 2026, our new product

should be uh in market and there's a lot of optimism around that new product. I think the biggest question continues to be around tariffs. We're incredibly susceptible to tariffs. >> Exactly.

>> Exactly. >> All of this smells very good to me.

>> I don't I don't have any suspicion about this at all. I think this is I think this is a hold position for you.

>> I disagree. I think I disagree. Tell tell us why. I'm actually intrigued to hear why you would disagree with that.

Very sensible position.

>> I'm I'm I have two sides of it. So, it's

possible that >> So, this is I mean, this is not your money. It's not like you're investing in this stock. This is stock that they're giving to you. How quickly after it I

mean, how quickly can you move it over to something else? How quickly could you move it to an index fund once you've received it? How long does it take for it to vest? >> Um, so it's a four-year vesting schedule, 25% per year. Um, and then like I said, I have 150K that's fully vested just kind of sitting in the stock. I can move out of that as quickly as tomorrow.

>> I mean, if you wanted to sit on what's currently there, I it wouldn't bother me. But up moving forward, what I would do is the moment it vests, I'd move it to an index fund because or I'd move it elsewhere because I don't want money invested in single stocks, especially in

a company that's very soft right now. I I just would never tell somebody to invest their money there. Therefore, I also wouldn't advise somebody to necessarily investing her money. >> I understand it, but it's the same principle. I wouldn't necessarily advise somebody to leave their money there.

Now, that's why I said if you want to keep the 150 there for now and see if it regains, but going forward, I would move. >> Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. >> Do you see what I'm saying? So, I >> Yeah, I was just talking about the what what I was addressing.

>> I'm not increasing my losses going forward. >> That's fair. And I don't disagree with Jade on that.

then you can move it that's that's all I'm saying and that's a unique situation this is such a unique call in that situation I'd probably wait and see if the company can turn things around uh for that reason. But I also wouldn't have the first problem if you said I'm out. >> I was going to say if I were in your shoes, I don't think there's any problem with you doing what Ken said or doing what I suggested. If I were in your shoes, I would probably move it cuz I'd be like, I just don't want it in single stocks and I've already taken a loss.

I've already taken a hit. I'd rather this be diversified. That's just what I would do in order for you to stomach it is why I said what I said which is hey leave what's there but going forward make sure you quickly move you know as soon as it vests >> y >> I'm just trying to this is an emotional thing Ken you know >> it is >> I was just trying to work through the emotional side of it that's all >> and that's why again the only reason I said what I said is because her emotion is where it is and so it's like you're not relying on that money.

>> Yeah. This is this is what I would call found money. And I'd go, if you're emotional about it, ride the roller coaster a little bit longer. See if they get it back up.

>> And that's so funny because I'm the exact opposite. I'm like, it's not your money. So, there's really no reason to be emotional. I just move it and go whatever.

It's a I have $150,000. How do I want to invest this? That's the way I think about it. >> You play with house money.

>> It's house money. >> So, I'm a little bit more aggressive with house. >> So, we're betting. I'm >> not bet.

Yes, she is. In this case, she is she's going if she holds Yeah. and doesn't move it. She is betting that the CEO and the new leadership and the analysis could end up winning.

>> I wouldn't take that bet. I wouldn't take it.

It is. >> She got two pieces of advice.

>> I know. >> You got two pieces of advice, Britney.

>> What are you going to do, Britney? You tell us. [laughter] >> What's the word? >> Well, I I think the good news is that it doesn't sound like there's a wrong decision here. You know, there's not clear something that I'm doing wrong.

And so, you know, as an employee of the company, I think I'm going to try to be a little loyal, have faith, have optimism. I'm going to hold I do I do believe in the company. I do believe we're in a rebound. We always have in the past. Um so I'm going to pull the audience.

>> Just don't forget going forward that it's a single stock. Just don't forget that going forward. >> All right. Now, just for fun, we got probably 30 40 people in the lobby.

>> Uh lobby, raise your hands if you would go ahead and get out of the stock and cash out. Raise your hand.

>> My guy right there. >> One guy. >> One one loyal one loyal guy.

>> Now, let's see how this one goes. If you would hold a little bit and wait at least a year, the Ken position, raise your hand. Oh, it's overwhelming.

>> Listen, dollar betters are risky

business. >> It's rare that I'm right. And so, I'm going to soak in this one. >> So, laugh it up, Ken.

>> I tell you what, uh, I've been married 27 years. I have three teenagers. I'm never right. You know what I mean, people? Thank you very much. There's one guy that's giving me a polite golf clap.

[laughter] Uh, no. But in all seriousness, I think Britney, uh, you're you're very wise.

You're not doing anything wrong. >> No, it's not her money. >> It's not your money. So, you decide what you want to do with it. Uh, but I like that. It's a really interesting call. And in that situation with a public company, the proof is in the pudding.

And here's what I know about public companies. If this guy doesn't get it right, >> the next guy >> then they're going to get somebody >> there will be a next guy >> who gets it right. And so, that's where my mindset is. So, I'm thinking long-term play. uh in this unique

situation. But I loved your advice, too. I I it's hard not to take advantage of that. And by the way, to fully come back to your your point of view going forward as she gets new stuff, I I love that idea of going >> moving it over. >> Thank you. Thank you very much.

>> I'll take it from here >> and I'll take it. So, I I would do that as well and I want to stipulate that.

>> Yeah. >> I just was so stuck in my other position then. Now, I just none of it was wrong.

>> No, no, no, none of it. So a very interesting stuff and what a benefit to people who uh who have that option.

>> I know. Very nice. >> Stock options are very nice folks.

Hello. I got a friend. I got a friend who shall remain nameless who just recently left a massive company.

>> Oh yeah. >> And he cashed out and boy oh boy.

>> Cha ching. >> Oh [laughter] boy. He had a good day folks. I had a good day just hearing about it and I didn't get anything from it. That's a good friend right there. The afterglow of his stock cashaching was so nice that I even felt good. After >> There you go. Afterlow.

[music]

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Anna is up next in Lexington, Kentucky.

Anna, how can we help?

>> Hello. Hello. All right. Me and my husband, uh, we got ourselves in a pickle. We're spinning fast. young and dumb, you know, >> but that's okay. That's okay. God redeems, right? >> Yes. >> Um so essentially, um we we have about

I'll just see the numbers actually. It's about 106,000 in debt. Uh that's outside of our mortgage and that's totaling up to about

like 30 3,700

a month. Um, but our house is for sale

and we'd be left over with about I believe about 12 or 13,000 left over if we sell our house at this price. Kind of like knock it all over the way and then keep on doing what we're doing about like strapping down and paying off our debt. Um, so yeah, we just want to hear your thoughts on that and like >> where you going to go after you sell your house?

>> Yeah, so we really feel the Lord calling us back to Knoxville. Um that's where we were before and we bought this house like we weren't fearful about it at all.

It's beautiful. It's gorgeous, right? But um it's really isolating and we work from home. We have two beautiful boys.

We have a nanny that comes in and um yeah, we just feel like uh we should be back in Knoxville for a ministry sense.

And >> so you're not selling the house. >> But you didn't answer my question. You're selling the house in Lexington because you're called back to Knoxville.

Where are you going to live and how are we going to pay for it? >> Oh, rent. rent.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. We can't buy the we we can't buy the house in in cash or anything and we don't want to get in that same situation. So, okay. >> We rent in we'd be looking about 2500 a

month for rent. Um we make a when we're

in Tennessee because of the income tax, we'll make about 10,500 a month.

>> Okay. So, very good income. And is that just his income or both of you?

>> I wish maybe one day. Oh, no. That's

both of ours. So, he makes about um a

hundred or 100,000 a little.

>> Are you still there?

>> Oh, we lost.

>> Yeah, we just feel like uh we should be backing up.

>> Okay. Anna, are you in a storm shelter?

Are you driving? We We're losing you.

>> No. Oh, you're losing me. >> Yeah, it sounded like you went in the janitor's closet. [laughter] >> Okay. So, your question is what to do

with >> any cash or anything.

>> I tell you what, I tell you what, we're gonna put Ann on hold and let's see if we can get a better connection there.

Uh, let's go to Luke in Philadelphia.

Luke, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, how's it going? >> Good. How are you, sir? What's going on? >> I'm doing good. Um, so I'm going to re

be receiving an inheritance from my grandfather ne next month. going to be like around uh $85,000.

I'm very blessed with that. Um my question is um being a Ramsay fan, I

know that [clears throat] Dave always said to pay off the debt. So I was planning on paying off my uh student loans. Uh they're about 55 $56,000.

Um but I was talking to uh my friends in

the bar. So this is where all bad ideas start. >> I like [laughter] where this is going though. But he gave me I he gave me some good advice. He was saying um that I should invest it I think in like a low

secure I'm trying to I don't really know this the stock stuff. Um but he was saying to invest it into a uh like a low security stock um investment plan. So like the government I guess I think it's the government fund at like four and a half%. And I use Y refi for my student loans. So they're down to two and a half% interest rate. So, I'm trying to like I I I I'm kind of unfor I'm kind of

leaning towards that because, you know, keeping the inheritance for as long as I can is very appealing. >> Wait a second. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah. >> So, if I hear you right, you're kind of leaning toward your buddy's advice in

the bar that you can't even say to us in a coherent way. >> Well, cuz he didn't hear it in a coherent way. He heard it after six beers. [laughter] >> Yeah.

So, you're >> No, it was six. It was only 6:00 in the evening, so it wasn't it was they weren't that belligerent yet. >> But I mean, I hope you hear yourself [laughter] whether you were inebriated when you heard it or not. You couldn't repeat it to us in a very coherent way.

And that doesn't really matter. My point is, you got to see the irony in calling this show to ask us if if you should take your buddy's advice that you can't recall uh overpaying off the debt. I'm going to I'm going to see the balance of my time and hand it to the lady uh and see what she says because she I know what she's going to say. >> Oh, well, Luke, yes.

You know, everybody knows what I'm going to say, but I want to frame it to where it's you making the choice and not not me because it doesn't >> it's got to be you making the choice. So, you have to ask yourself what's what do you value?

Because if you're a person who says, you know what, debt's not good. I don't like the way I feel when I'm in debt. I don't like being a slave to the lender. I'd like to have better sleep at night.

I don't like this thing, you know, over the shadow over my life all the time. If you value getting away from that, then you're going to say, "There'll be other time to invest. This is my chance to break free." But if you say, "You know what? I don't really have a problem with debt.

I don't mind borrowing money. It doesn't really bug me. You know, it's fine for me to leverage somebody else's money to get what I want." Like, if you're that person, then you might say, "Well, yeah, I'm just going to take this money and invest it." If you ask us, we're going to tell you all day, every day that debt is not the way. It's stealing from you.

It's stealing your monthly payment even at 2 point and two two and a half% interest. It's stealing your peace.

We're going to tell you that. But if you don't value that, >> then it doesn't matter what I say. You're still going to get off the call and do what your, you know, your buddy six drinks in told you to do.

>> You see what I'm saying? >> I get what you're saying. Yeah. The way he Well, I mean, I need to hear this from you in a bar and six drinks deep.

Then then I can really believe in it.

>> And maybe. So, listen. Well, you could pour yourself a tollman while we tell you this. I don't know if that helps. >> Let's think of it like this. Okay, so you've got 85. You could essentially do both. You could pay off the 56,000. Just think for a minute, Luke, how great that would feel for that to be out of your life. Cuz how old are you?

>> I'm 26. >> 26. They're gone forever. Now you've got the rest of your working life, another 26 to 30 years to not only keep the

other uh the other 10 or so that's left,

right? the other 15 that's left, you can go ahead and invest that. Let it sit. Do what your buddy said. Well, don't do what they said. Invest it in mutual funds. And then you have the next 30

years to invest 15% of your income and

build wealth. You're going to be a multi multi-millionaire.

>> Okay? >> So, why not do both, right? Why not clear out the debt and be a multi multi-millionaire? >> I'll drink to that. >> I'll drink to that. >> This is why I called because I was like, you know, Luke, you're leaning towards your friend in a bar. And how much do they have? How much money do they have?

[laughter] >> They they make they do deeds. They do better than me. But yeah, >> ask them to show you proof.

>> I don't listen, I don't mind that you're getting advice from your buddy in a bar, but it better be good advice.

>> I want to know that they are killing it.

[laughter] >> So my goodness. Uh yeah, pretty straightforward answer for us. Um, and and and I think what you nailed >> is what I don't think people think about until they start to listen to us or watch us and they hear us say it the same thing over and again and I'm going to bring it back to you having you having written a book what no one tells you about money and that is the psychology. >> Yes.

>> Nobody looks at that on a Tik Tok or Instagram. Well, it's an emotional thing when you talk about building wealth, especially when you have this opportunity in your hand that he's got $85,000 in his hand that he didn't work for. Somebody just dropped it and it's like, "Oh my gosh, this is my moment." And here we are saying, "Put it on your debt." That is like buzz kill, right? It feels terrible.

That's why I framed it up on his values because here's the truth. The truth is, is it the worst thing in the world he could have done to take that 85 and just drop it in an index fund? Oh, come on. There's a lot dumber things he could have done.

He's still doing something, you know, smart. He's investing it. But when we're talking about good, better, and best, the best move is to clear out your debt, pay off, you know, pay that out, get that done. It's not chasing you.

It's not haunting you. And people don't consider the emotional side of that to finally have peace. When people let their student loans stick around forever, Ken, the amount of guilt associated with that is is crazy because you're like, man, here I am with these student loans. He's going to get married one day.

Maybe he already is and his wife's going to have to be married into that. Then he's going to have kids one day. His kids are going to have to, you know, feel the stress of that. So when you're the quicker you're able to deal with this, >> that's right.

>> The better. >> Because here's the dirty little secret, Jade.

Most people don't want to admit this.

Many people like this, Luke, if they don't uh they don't do this and take care of this, they're going to wake up in their mid-50s with student loan and then do the math one day of how much interest they've been paying and now you're talking about severe stomach pain. and ain't no medicine to take care of that. So, I love the advice. Uh that's just one of the things she takes on in the fabulous new book.

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[music] >> Jade, you know this, but I got to tell a lot of these folks that the allnew Every Dollar is here and um it's more than what we've have been telling you it is and what it was. That's right. >> As a great budgeting app, but I sat with the team today and you ready for this?

This is so fun. I was going through a full demo of it. You know what this is?

>> This is everything. Every dollar is everything you would get if you called this show, but a whole lot more. Let me explain. >> Yes, >> they are going to interact with you.

This app interacts with you, finds out where you are, and then you know that you can actually get a free 10-minute coaching call. >> I've been trying to tell people >> and the most you're going to get if you call this show is eight minutes, >> right? [laughter] And it's truly probably not eight after I yammer on for a minute. It's probably seven.

And it's not going to be free because I'm going to tell you once Dave figures it out, it's not going to be free.

>> You think so? [laughter] >> But it's a free 10-minute call. That's if you even need it. But I kid you not, >> people go, "Is every dollar just a bud?" No, it's not just a budget. It is literally like calling this show. You get real digital advice that you're going to answer these questions. You're going to you're going to get real legitimately awesome specific coaching

and then you can get a coach if you want a real life coach. This is unbelievable.

So, they're going to help you find a minimum of $3,000 right out of the gate.

I'm I'm looking at this data today. So, that's what it is, Jade. What What do you add to this? You've been on this game for a bit. >> Every dollar is exactly what you need.

But let me tell I'm going to take it a step further. the dynamic duo that you need. You need every dollar cuz that's going to do the coaching. It's going to do all the practical stuff.

Make you stay on the baby steps, numbers, but then you need to pick up this book that goes with it cuz that's going to give you >> Would that be your book, Jade? >> Yes. You get the practical side with the numbers and then you get the emotional side with this. This is what you need with your every dollar.

I'm just saying it's a pairing. It's like I see what she did wine and cheese >> cuz cuz every dollar is going to tell you what to do and how to do it. And then Jade's book is gonna come alongside and go, "Hey, when you're in the middle of this, here's how you keep doing all >> here's how you're gonna fit." Yeah.

>> Do them both. >> I love that. It's very good. Start Every Dollar for free today in the App Store or Google Play. And since she mentioned it, you can pre-order Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money. Uh same place, ramseyolutions.com/store.

Uh and uh there you go. The one-two punch. And I would do what she says.

It's not good when you don't. Take it from me. Pat is up in Kansas City. Pat,

how can we help today?

>> Um, I am uh completely out of debt uh

this month. Paid off my home.

>> Wow. Congratulations.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> How much is the house worth?

>> Um well, I I'm not sure. I I I think on

Zillow it it shows it at like 550.

>> Oh, it's probably worth more.

>> How real that is. >> Well, you know who? find out from a good realtor. But congratulations. You're you're in that neighborhood. You're in that neighborhood. That's a that's awesome to be in a half a million dollar range. Good on you.

>> Yeah. Um so now I've got about another

nine to 10 years of uh of working.

>> Okay. >> And I have a business and uh so I need to start because I've been self-employed pretty much my whole adult life. I've invested in businesses and lost and built back up and lost and built back up. Now I can finally put money away for retirement.

>> Mhm. >> And uh so far I've got about 185 in

stocks and some small Roth IAS.

Uh >> what's the business? >> We want to be wise about from this point on. >> What's the business?

>> Uh it's a a mechanical company. Uh heating, air conditioning, plumbing.

>> Do you plan to sell it?

>> I I don't know. I don't really have a plan. an exit plan. I kind of thought that I would just uh manage it and, you

know, get some income >> and then just shut it and then just shut it down >> or or sell it. I'm I'm a plan right now.

>> Well, that but that's why I'm asking part of your retirement. >> Yeah, my friend. Like in in your case, that needs to be a big part of the plan given that you don't have much in retirement money put away, but you have paid off your house, which puts you in a great situation. So, you're actually not as bad a shape as you think, but this is probably one of your best opportunities.

Let's just let me walk through some numbers with you if you don't mind. What uh what is what what's your what was your uh what do you anticipate? Well, let's do two two questions. What was your gross revenues last year 2024 in

your business? >> Uh last year was uh 1.2 million.

>> Okay, great. And what are you anticipating that it will be in 2025?

>> It'll be about 1718.

>> Okay. And uh how much how much are you netting?

>> Um I I'm honestly honestly I'm I'm not

sure. I'm not much of a business.

>> What do you What do you pay yourself? Is it just you? say myself one right uh I have a partner who does not take a uh who who bought into the business about uh in 2022 which I did that because I

always needed a good I always wanted to have a business person because I'm a technician that's what I am right >> and uh I've grown the business it's almost 20 years old I've grown it and lost it and grown it you know >> but what do you pay yourself >> I pay myself 175 >> 175 and after you pay yourself does does anything remain in the business is just kind of retained earnings every year.

What what's left over?

>> Um uh maybe 100,000.

>> Okay, good job. >> You know, I had to get myself out of debt in the business, too. So, I've I've paid off a lot of debt in my business.

>> Do you employ So, you don't employ anybody?

>> No, I have 12 employees.

>> That's what I thought. Okay. Because on 1.2 million, I'm going where's the rest of that money going? And so, so, okay.

So, you don't you don't have a firm grasp on your numbers, which is okay today, it's not okay tomorrow. So, whoever's running the books, whether it's your business partner, uh, or your or your I don't know if you have a CPA doing your books, you need to get yourself in the numbers and and you don't need to ash I'm just a technician anymore. It's no, this is part of my retirement. And so, I want to see where we are and and what we can do here as it relates to uh investing money. uh where

is the business itself? Um what is its

potential growth path over the next let's call it 10 years because that's the number you gave us. You've got a a goal of 10 years. So where can that business be in 10 years and let's talk to that business partner and I'm sure that partner is probably fine >> uh exiting when you exit if not sooner.

So, let's get a real plan in place and um because all of a sudden, you know, it's reasonable to believe that uh this business could be you could uh exit for3 to5 million with some really good work done over the next. I don't think that's a crazy number. >> I don't think that's crazy given what you're saying. As long as you keep trending the way you've said >> and I'm speaking in general terms here.

If we continue to grow the company, no debt, >> especially I was going to say especially that there's no debt on the business. That's great. >> So, that's a pretty nice chunk. How much how much does your owner I mean excuse me. How much does your partner have in the company? How much equity?

>> Um well he's 49. I'm 51.

>> That's how much money did he put in for 49? >> He put he put in 300,000 now. Now now when he did that uh you know where I I've grown since I mean I' I've had it up to about 2.6 6 million and come back down. And um but since 2020 was like 600,000 and 21 750

22 when he bought in in 22 we did about

800,000 then 23 a million. So we've been

going up every year. >> Good. >> Yeah. I think you're fine to answer your initial question where you're like, "Hey, I've got 10 years to save for retirement." Ken pointed out you've got this wonderful asset in the business.

Yeah. You guys need to decide a 10-year plan of what that's going to be with your partner. Obviously, it sounds like you've got majority vote on whatever that is. >> Do you have a very good tax Do you have a good tax pro?

>> Um, I think so. I I mean I

>> Okay, two things. You need a you need a Smart Veester Pro. Uh, if you don't have a Smart Investor Pro, you need to click on that link on our website and go interview some people and get somebody and sit with them. I'm talking like next week >> interview.

I always recommend interview at least two or three Smart Investor pros. Go with the one that you feel does the best job explaining things to where you understand what you need to do and why you should do it. The one that you got the best chemistry with. This is a relationship.

And let's look at our long-term. What do they say you need to be doing?

Have them look at the whole thing. I'd also get a tax pro and let's look at your tax situation and let's maximize everything we can because we're we're aiming with a 10-year bullseye on on

making and keeping as much money as possible. That's why I'm recommending the tax pro as well. >> And even if you only invest from the employee side, you as the employee, you as the employee, right? Just the 15% like we recommend, you're still going to be at a million bucks if you're just investing 15% of your $175,000 income.

So that's the good news. So, you're in good shape, plus a chance to exit. So,

>> yeah, >> lock and load, man. Focus. Let's crush the next 10 years personally and professionally, and I think you're going to find that you're in plenty good shape. Thanks for the call.

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>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.88255225

is the phone number if you want to jump in. Let's go to Vincent who's waiting in Las Vegas. Vincent, how can we help today?

>> Hello. Uh, how are you guys today?

>> We're well. How are you?

>> I'm I'm better than I deserve, as Dave would say. >> I've heard that a time or two. What's going on?

My my question is that I live a a very simple life and and now it's gotten to the point where I'm struggling to really give full effort and attention in work and other aspects of life when I feel at this point pretty confident in the amount of money I have in my savings and emergency fund. And I more or less already have everything I want in life

basic needs.

>> I'm 22.

>> That's some accomplishment. >> This begs a few questions. How much cash do you have?

>> Um about 80,000.

>> And how much in savings or retirement?

Because I think you mentioned savings or some type of investments. What do you have?

>> Um yeah. So between the 80,000 is

between uh cash checking account uh

Charles Schwab account uh which is ETFs and gold. And >> how much is the break it down how much is the ETFs and how much is the gold?

Uh, gold I think is about 3,000 and then

the ETFs is I think about 20,000 and

then in high yield CDs I have about

40,000 I believe.

>> Okay. >> And then in checking I have about 20,000. >> And the checking, would you just call that like a rainy day fund?

>> Uh, yeah. That's just where my paychecks go and that's where I um make most of my

daily expenses. >> Okay. What are your monthly expenses?

Just give me a number.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, my income is about 6 to7,000 a

month and then after after taxes and my

basic expenses, I probably have about 3,000 left from 3 to 4,000.

>> Okay, that's great. It's great, but it's nowhere near the the guy who presented at the start of the call going, "Hey, I've got everything I need. I'm 22 and I'm just having a hard time being motivated because I don't see the rest of the math that would add up to that." >> Well, I I think I might get it a little

bit. I'm not saying I agree. I just think I understand where he's coming from. At 22, you're doing awesome. So, I can understand you thinking thinking that like, man, what's I I don't have any You don't have any debt, right? Like, I don't have any debt. I've got 80,000 in assets. Uh do you do you own

your own place or do you rent? Tell us about that.

>> Um I I rent a studio apartment and it's

um significantly below market value due to uh uh friends and family rate from a

connection I made at >> Okay. But I'm Okay. I I'm I'm so confused. Honestly, I'm I'm really confused by your response.

>> Well, I'm I didn't get to finish. My my point was if your measuring stick is for a 22y old then I think yeah I think you're doing great for a 22 >> but that's not how he presented the the t you said you were having a hard time being motivated. >> I understand I'm getting to it. I'm saying like I see where you're saying but you have now you have to look up and look out because for a 22-year-old that's great but you're going to age and there's going to be other things that are going to pop up.

So that's why I asked you about where you rent or where you live and you said you're a renter. So already that's telling me, okay, well that means that at some point you're going to want to be able to buy. And so that's already a huge financial goal that you can set your sights on. Then you said, okay, well here's my income right now at 22.

I think that's a wonderful income, but soon you're going to, you know what I'm saying? There you have to you're looking at where you are today and that's why you're feeling like I feel like I got it in the bag. But if you look up and out, you're going to say, okay, there is more for me to reach towards.

I I do see what you're saying and that's often the advice that I get from some

people I talk with or or professionals I've talked with you really

>> because I don't really have a any desire to like buy a house someday. There's no reason to buy a house if I'm just going to be in it by myself. I just need one bedroom. You know, >> you don't want the security of having a fixed that that biggest asset or that

biggest line item on your budget. You don't want that to be fixed.

>> Uh, not really because there's, you know, other expenses and repairs and taxes that >> that come with it. And >> Sure, but you've got all the money in the world to pay for it. It sounds like >> it's not like that would break you. >> I mean, >> yeah, but to me, I don't really see a difference between having that or just having it between, you know, high yield CDs and stocks and gold, you know? Can I

ask you why why then you care about the high yield, the CDs, the stocks, and the gold? What where what's the motivation behind that?

>> I wouldn't say I care about it. I would I would more say that I have excess income at the end of each month, sometimes more due to a bonus from work or something and I put that into

something that is going to give me some return, but it's also very liquid if, you know, one day I wake up and decide I want to do something, I guess. >> Okay. What's what's at the root of your question? I don't think we're I don't think we're addressing or that you got it out. I'm not sure what what what is the reason for calling today?

I I guess the reason for calling is is

that I already have a roof over my head

and food on my table and clothes on my body and I don't turn on my car and wish I drove a nicer car or go to sleep at night and wish I had a bigger bedroom or eat food after work and wish I could have, you know, eat a nicer meal because I already could do all of those things and I don't. I just put it towards saving. >> I I understand that's leading to something. So that or so what what is

the point?

>> The the point is that I I don't know I

guess where to spend money where I enjoy it because I feel like wherever money I've spent including taking international vacations or buying uh

nicer clothes or jewelry or whatever I don't or even spending it on gifts for other people. I I feel almost all the time that my life is basically the same as if I was just doing the absolute basics. And >> you're completely indifferent to all of those things is what you're saying. >> I I I get what you're saying. I just don't know what you're asking and so I don't I'm just curious. You called us.

>> Are you making more of a statement? Are you here to make more of a declaration of >> what's the question?

>> Is there a question? I guess the question the the question is I I guess how can I change my mindset to the point where I'm giving half effort in my job that I do and you know for example

>> right so that's a whole or brushing my teeth but I don't know how to accelerate that to give 100% effort because I

talking to many professionals >> okay okay let me let me jump in okay what I'm hearing is a guy who's describing work and what comes from the work as only a paycheck and I don't really care about all the stuff I get for a paycheck. And I I talk a lot about this. I've talked a lot about this for years. And I think what's what's missing is uh this is not about working to make

money for you. I get it. I appreciate that point of view. It's very pure. I love it. But you're asking the question, Ken, I I think you're saying, I'm not very motivated. And what about that?

Now, here's where this comes in. Uh you've got to be doing work to make a contribution that you care about. So, I would start looking into what are the results that I ultimately want to put into this world. you're going to have to keep bringing in an income. You're not in that kind of shape. And you didn't say you weren't, but you're only 22 and and there's a lot of work left for you just to take care of yourself and do basic investing. But I understand you're going, I'm not working to have stuff.

Then you need to start to shift your mindset to I need to work to make a difference. In other words, uh what is the contribution I want to make in the

world of work? And that's going to provide motivation for you. So, I'll give you three questions that you need to answer over the days ahead. Here they are.

Who are the people that I want to help? Be specific. What problem or desire do those people have? And then third, what are the solutions to that problem or desire that I get most fired up about?

Here's what you're going to find. Multiple opportunities to go to work and do something that matters deeply to you. And then it's not about the money. The last thing I would say for somebody like you is find a way to give a lot away.

Okay, everybody, and I mean everybody, needs insurance. However, it can be very

hard to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck off of you, sell you something you don't need, or a junk policy. And that's why Ramsay Trusted uh

is where it is. And it's such a lighthouse to so many people. And our insurance um the Ramsey Trusted Insurance program uh vets pros for you.

So, these are people that are out there in the marketplace and Ramsay vets them to make sure you're not dealing with sleazy business people. uh and they've

been interviewed and coached to make sure that they're market experts who have your best interest at heart. And if they don't do that, we kick them out of the program. And so that's why we call it Ramsey Trusted. You can go to ramseysolutions.com/coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for or connect with a Ramsey trusted agent.

And keep in mind, this is not just a one-way street. In other words, we're not looking to just be making sure we have the right coverage. We want to make sure we don't have too much coverage >> and thus can save you money.

you're listening on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the show notes to get connected over there. Grand Rapids is where we're going now. Mary is joining us there. Mary, how can we help?

>> Hi. Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Um, so, so I'm 64 years old. Um, still

working. Well, I retired once, but I'm went back. I'm a school teacher, single parent. Um, I have two sons. My older son is 30. Um, and he's well, he's doing

okay, but he drives a junky old car and

I get worried about him in it. Uh, he's

kind of struggling financially and I'm my question is, should I give him my my

car and me get a new one? And, you know, I'm getting older. When do I stop helping my kids?

>> Did he ask you to help or are you just observing this and you're assuming he needs your help?

>> Yeah, he did not ask. He He's a good guy. He doesn't ask, but I you know, so it's me thinking, I think I can afford a

car. Should I? And I hear I've heard Dave say it's good to help your kids,

you know, when you can. I don't know. I just >> Why is he struggling financially?

>> Well, he went to college, had a couple jobs, didn't like him, and now he's decided he wants to be an EMT.

>> So, he was doing schooling to be an EMT.

and um just kind of working.

>> Great. Is he single? >> I don't know. >> He's single. Yeah. Okay.

>> And and this is not a work ethic issue, correct? He's always been employed. He's hopped around a little bit, but he's he's got some character. Is that what I'm hearing? >> Yeah. Oh, he's he's a worker. In fact, he's got some money saved maybe, you know, in a Roth IRA and um he's responsible. But I >> when you say >> and I just hate seeing him in that junky car. >> When you say junky car, what is that?

Because maybe what's junky to you is just a cash

car that he likes to drive because he doesn't care about cars and car payments.

>> That's Oh, that's for sure. He's kind of a a you know, very frugal, I guess.

>> Oh, good. And he has no debt. >> 2000.

>> No debt. >> Well, what's the car? Answer her question. Do you know what it is? >> It's a two 2007 uh Honda Fit.

>> Okay. I You know what? I'll be honest with you, Mary. I think that he has different values than you do possibly.

And if you tell me that this guy is debtree, he's got some money saved in a Roth IRA, he's studying to be an EMT, and he has a older car with no payments, I'm hooping and hollering for him. I'm like, way to go. Good job.

>> So, no. No.

>> Yeah, I wouldn't. Now, now let let me flip it real quick. Um, let's say I

don't know your financial situation, Mary. Let's pretend that I mean you you did say you're still working. Let's say you've got a couple million bucks.

You've got your teacher's pension.

You're going to retire, no problem. And you were thinking of getting a new car.

>> And that that is that is the case.

>> Okay. And you were thinking of getting a new car anyway that you're paying cash for. And you're like, "Hey, what do you drive currently?" What would be the car that you're giving him?

>> It's a a 2013 um Toyota

>> and no payments, right? >> Like a No, it's paid for. Yeah, I have no debt. He my children have no debt cuz that's how >> that's how we roll.

>> So if you wanted to offer it to him and say, "Hey, I'm getting a new car. Would you like to have this? I'd love to give it to you as a gift." I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But if you couch it in, you need this car.

I mean, like if if the if the spirit around it is you're struggling, you need this gift. Please, for the love of God, take this car, [laughter] that might not feel great.

>> I love this line of question.

>> That makes sense. >> I like how you're digging, partner. But I now I'm going to dig. >> You dig it. >> I thought I heard you say multiple kids.

Is that true?

>> Two sons. >> Yes. >> Two boys. Is this kid the one we're talking about? 30-y old. Is he the youngest?

>> No, he's the older one.

>> Okay. I'm just gonna tell you as a as a as a father of multiple kids, [laughter]

>> you know where I'm going here. >> If you do one, you got to do the other.

>> I just think there's weird I think there's >> I'm not No, here I'm not that guy. I'm not one that says you have to do for one

that you do for the other. I'm not I'm not a >> a hard line on that. But I I am acknowledging here and I'm bringing it up for sake of conversation because you've met the financial test. Jay did a fabulous job checking on all that. Um, and my initial answer was no because he didn't ask for it and he's he's finding his way. Um, but now I'm going to

question the psychology here. If you do this and then the younger son, I just

think you have to think about that.

>> I'm not even going to say what you should do because I think you're a wise woman. I'm just going to bring that up.

>> And I'm not going to say that you got to do for the youngest what you do for the oldest. And I love your mom heart. I totally feel all of this.

>> That's why I'm bringing that part up. I'm not even going to say what the position is. >> Well, then let's ask. What do you think would happen with the youngest son if

you gave the oldest son your 2013 paid to car?

>> Well, there's even I was trying to be brief, so there's even more to it. So, I've given both my kids they've been given all their cars and and just so you know, I mean, I'm a widow, right? Um my husband died 10 years ago and I'm I'm

proud of both my sons. They both went to college and um you know gra graduated.

They're hard workers. They no debt.

>> Um so my one son has the younger son has

my newer old car, right? And the older son has the older hoopy.

>> Okay. So this is just part of the routine. >> Oh, well then I change. I wish. Okay.

Well, Mary, you're so sweet. Do it. I didn't We didn't know all this. I appreciate you wanting to be brief, but this is the background that we need. And I think with all this, I'm changing my entire position and go, Mary, you can give them the car today if you want to. >> Yeah. And then in seven years when you buy a new car, you'll [laughter] give the the old one to the other side. >> I feel like these boys are these boys are blessed. >> Yeah. And you're a good mom.

>> You're a great mom. My goodness, Mary.

Well, well, say well. I mean, I just I worry I worry about him and like Dave said, I really take what he >> says to heart that when the kids need help, they can need help when they're younger and I think, well, is that like

this giving them a card? I mean, I guess it would >> I do think there's a [clears throat] statute of limitations and I don't know what it is. >> Yeah, >> I do think it's like I'm not sure I'm giving them another one after 30. I mean, this is you've been very generous, but I don't know that I keep this up the rest of your life. >> Maybe, but if they're responsible, I can totally see like as a parent, I could totally see.

>> I don't being being done with something and being like, well, maybe I'll just give it over, you know? >> I don't know. At some point, I want to go, "Mom, you're the best. I should probably pay for my next car cash like an adult." >> But there's nothing wrong here.

>> No, there's nothing wrong. >> There's nothing wrong here. >> There's nothing wrong there. You said none of them are knuckleheads.

None of them are, you know, entitled. That's all we were trying to sniff out.

>> I I'm getting them their initial.

>> Oh, okay. You feeling >> okay? [laughter] Can I pick your brain? Can I pick your brain one more time? >> Yeah. Real quick. We got about a minute. Go ahead. >> Okay. So So thank God my husband left us

well off and I've got a a a pretty good

net worth being north of a couple million. >> Good. And and I I'm like one of these

people, too. I've just worked my whole life. I'm having a hard time buying a a new car, feeling like, "Oh my god, can when can you afford to buy a different car? I'm so cheap when you have your net

worth." >> Yeah, you can afford to buy one today.

And I probably wouldn't spend more than, you know, if it makes you feel better, no more than half of what your teacher salary is a year. I mean, >> that's what I'm saying. Your teacher salary is basically whatever Mary wants to do. You're so set. You know what I would do if I were you, Mary? You're so good. >> Get yourself a fun car. >> Get Get something nice. Red.

>> Like something fun. Like what's fun for you? Even if it's an old classic

a Toyota Prius. Wouldn't that be fun?

They're cute. The new ones. >> If you say so, Mary. >> It's your money. Mary, if you think the Prius is fun, knock yourself out.

>> Send us a picture of you getting inside.

>> That'll be fun. >> Oh my god. >> You're the best, Mary. Do it. You've earned it. You have

[music]

[music]

our question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like the end of the road. But Yrefi helps you find a way forward with a low fixed rate payment plan that fits your life. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter y refy.com/ramsey.

Not available in all states. >> That's right. Today's question comes from Mary. Another Mary. I've we've had three Marys today. Is that right?

>> One in the lobby, one on the line, and now one in the words. >> Is there a song Mary or something? I was thinking Miss Mary Mac all dressed in.

Yeah. All right. Anyway, today's question or why refi [laughter] question of the day comes from Mary in North Carolina. She says, "I'm struggling with a question about the stereotypical golden handcuffs. My job pays well, but

to be honest, I'm not motivated to be there anymore, Ken. >> I struggle with a lack of purpose, Ken.

I'm about four years away from retirement, and because of your advice, I do have a 6 to8month emergency fund. I do have over 1 million in retirement funds and I do have a paidoff home. Way to go, Mary. Do I push through the last

few years to keep stockpiling money or

should I look, Ken, for another job that will certainly pay less but enjoy more?

>> Uh, I would go with look for another job

that you enjoy more. But let's not assume. Let's not only look at something

that pays less. In other words, it sounds like she has an idea here.

>> Uhhuh. >> And so before she locks in on the, well, I'm going to enjoy it a whole lot more, but it's going to pay a whole lot less.

Let's just see, can we have uh good pay

and good enjoyment, let's at least exhaust all options.

>> Um, and and and you know, listen, I've always taken this position and uh Dave doesn't like it sometimes. He'll always go, well, if you can find just as much money. And look, the data the data bears

itself out. you know, money is not what drives meaning. And in this case, if you can't find something that pays similar,

um I would be fine with her doing this.

I absolutely would because of the stage of life that she's in. Um she's fine financially. She didn't say she's going to stop working, >> right? >> Uh so yeah, I think that when someone presents like this, >> I'm never ever ever

going to choose money over meaning. I

want to pull that thread more because obviously she's I mean she's set, right?

She's got the paid off home. She's got the nice retirement. She's got everything. Six months of emergency, all that. Um at what point

can can one make that transition in your mind of Yeah, I'm making a ton of money, but it's just not it's not hitting right for me. Ken, you know, at what point can that person kind of do what you said and seek out the meaning even if the money doesn't >> Yeah. High level. The answer is what we teach.

when you have financial peace. In other words, when you live like no one else, later you can live and give like no one else.

>> I agree. >> But still have plenty of margin in her life. And she's now choosing to work for

contribution.

>> Yeah. Uh, and I think that's that's the answer. When you have enough peace >> or or we could call it margin, >> when you have enough peace and space in your life to make a decision like that and it is overwhelmingly good for your soul.

>> Because you have enough >> you can do that. >> And you know, again, and I'll tie this into the big picture on money. the

fourth largest group of net worth millionaires in a Ramsay study on the 10,000 plus millionaires that was behind

Dave's book u baby steps millionaires were teachers >> so these teachers aren't making a ton of money but they're making enough money

>> based on the lifestyle that they have chosen to live >> and they're doing the right things with the margin they have >> so in Mary's case I'm all for it and so

the answer is when you have peace You can dial back, you can downshift.

>> Mhm. Yeah. I think that's uh that's hard for people to >> It is until you work a job like Mary does and she goes, "I honestly four more years of this." >> Yeah.

>> Four more years when I don't need to when I don't want to. Um I I I'll draw a

really Okay, I'm glad you brought this up. Last thing on this, we'll move on. I want to draw the most extreme example of this I can for those of you who are going, "I don't know, Ken. That sounds a little a little fluffy. It's not fluffy.

One of the forms of torture we've seen throughout history is meaningless work.

>> And we saw this in World War II where in prison camps, prisoners would move one pile of rocks from one side of the prison yard to the other.

>> And uh if you're not familiar with that concept, read Victor Frankl's work, In Search of Meaning. And the idea here is is that that was a form of torture to do work that absolutely had no redemptive

value. It's hard, painful, and that is

to break down the soul, not the mind.

>> And the most >> tortuous thing you can do to somebody is to remove their meaning.

>> So I'm not trying to be dramatic here.

I'm just simply saying, >> I think that's so good. >> That's why I teach what I teach. If anybody's ever wondered, why is Ken talk about purpose and doing what you're wired to do? Because I do believe that we are souls and we have spirits and the

spirit leaves the body when it doesn't do what Ephesians 2:10 says, which is

that we are created for good works. And

so that would be my last statement on that. >> Man, I I like when I say something that gets this King Coleman out because this this this guy right here, he's got he's got a lot to say. Well, I I think if you wonder why someone feels, you know, meaningless and depressed at work, it's because they're doing something that they got no enjoyment. >> Now, there is a I mean, I I hear the listener right now where it's like, well, but you guys would tell a stay-at-home mom who wants to stay home that maybe it's a good idea for her to work while she's in debt, right?

Like, there's a line where we're saying to kind of bite the bullet um a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain.

>> That's right. where it can be worth that sacrifice because you know it's not indefinite, right? >> Well, let me just step into your example. A stay-at-home mom >> uh working part-time to help pay off debt is about as meaningful and purposeful work there is. >> And that's why we do it. >> That doesn't mean she's called to do part-time jobs. She's called to be a stay-at-home mom. And uh I there are viral clips on Instagram of of me on

this show saying loud and clear there's not a greater calling in the world than a stay-at-home mom. I am all for that.

And that is as as important as a job as there is on the planet. Now let me also say because shockingly that'll go viral and people go way to go Ken. Thank you. And then working women will come in there and attack me. My mom was a working mother. My wife Stacy worked uh for half of our kids' lives.

I'm for working women outside the home too. So let's just everybody relax. Um

but to your point, the greater point is

>> why am I working, >> right? >> And if you are only working to pay off debt, that's purpose.

>> Yeah. >> We we listen to debtree screams all the time. >> But there's a deep money behind that.

They're not they're not just working to pay off debt. They're working because they see a vision. >> Well, but yeah, but to pay off debt to then live like no one else. But my point is is that >> there is purpose in a short-term goal in work. >> But there's also great purpose in going, hey, I don't have to work anymore, but I

want to make a contribution.

>> And um there's two types there's two results from work. Okay? uh one is provision to take care of me to take care of my family to take care of my loved ones >> uh to take care of my responsibilities whatever those are the bills >> and then there is contribution and in our world we don't teach the contribution we teach provision provision provision and in a Christian worldview which I unashamedly hold

I don't think you can be a whole person I don't think you can have a truly purposeful meaningful sense of self if

you don't do some type of work even in retirement. >> I feel that. I agree wholeheartedly.

>> And I'm okay with everybody going, "By the way, if I want to retire and walk away, Ken, is that okay?" I sure. I for one am not going to do that. >> But you're going to do something. You're going to volunteer. You're going to help out with the grandkids.

>> I'm going to do something. >> Girl Scouts, you're going to do something. >> I'm Well, the Girl Scouts will keep me away, and I appreciate that. >> I'm talking about you.

[laughter] >> I know. I couldn't resist. You left it right there for me. Uh but yeah, I think that that we are made to work and that doesn't mean made to break our backs when we're 85, but I do think make a contribution as long as you can.

That's a pretty meaningful life. So, great question there, Mary. Uh really fun stuff.

>> I did. I threw you the pitch and you >> but a worthy a worthy conversation for all of you to say, "Hey, what do I want my life to look like after I've lived like no one else?

[music]

>> [music]

>> ours. Scripture of the day comes from Psalm 119:66.

Teach me knowledge and good judgment, for I trust your commands. And our quote today, Simon Synynic. Experts are the ones who think they know everything.

Geniuses are the ones who know they don't. Classic Simon. Little word play.

>> I like that. >> Simon can spin anything and sound brilliant. >> Yeah, >> that's brilliant. He got Guy flips all these phrases. I love Simon. Uh Brian is up in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Just fun.

What famous show was headquartered?

>> I was I was already playing the theme song in my mind, but I was like, this is so like >> The Office, right? >> Yeah. >> Fantastic. Poor people are Scranton.

They can't get past it. Uh, let's go to Brian. Brian, how can we help?

>> We We love not being able to get past, >> do you? So, [laughter] it's not it's not like an eye rolling thing when idiots like me bring it up.

>> No, you love it. >> Yeah, we love it. Actually, my my daughter uh learned the theme song on the piano for my birthday and played it [laughter] for me and I cried.

>> That's really sweet, Brian. Thank you for sharing that. That's so fun. Well, we're here for you today. How can we help?

>> All right, so uh my wife and I have had a couple uh large expenses come up this year that we've dipped into the emergency fund for. Um a sewer line backing up, uh a refrigerator died. So,

as we've been like replenishing our emergency fund, uh it's I just feel like it's taking quite a long time. Uh and we

haven't been like we haven't gone back to like the baby step three type intensity, like no vacations, no >> eating out. Like we we've kind of continued our baby step four, five, and six life. And >> uh I just wondered if if that's okay, that we that we didn't revert back to like barebones scorched earth. I think it depends on what's left in the emergency fund. Are you at like the three, you were at the six-month point and now you're at the three-month point or are you like down to like the one month point?

We uh after the two major expenses which were earlier this year, um we went down

to probably like two months and we're,

you know, we're we're replenishing it for sure. It's it's back up there, but we've always kind of ridden been comfortable with uh with a threemonth emergency fund. Uh-huh.

>> Um, just just cuz I'm I've been so I'm

always eager to, you know, be investing

and and, you know, saving up for the next kid's car or our car, you know, something like that. So, >> well, how far away are you >> of our marriage? We've been comfortable with three months. >> How far away are you? You said you were down to two months, so you only got a month to replenish.

>> Uh, yeah. Well, I I'll put it this way.

Our our emergency fund, we let ride at about $11,000. It went down to three or

four, I'd say, and we're back up to close to nine.

>> Um, >> can you not do this in one month next month? Can you just not pop $2,000 in there next month? >> I >> I we might be able to, but like other things have come up, non-emergency things that have that have kind of taken away from uh replenishing it quicker, like regular car repairs. Um

>> Yeah. uh like when whenever a vehicle goes into the shop, it seems to be, you know, hundreds more than we expect. And we we pay it we pay it with cash and >> Yeah. What do you make? >> What's your monthly income? >> Yeah. >> Between you and your wife. >> Uh let's see. I'm uh drawing a blank.

It's 90,000 a year before taxes.

>> Okay. Uh I want you to get this saved up sooner than later. Um for two reasons.

One, um you only had three months to

begin with. So, let's let's hurry up and get that stacked back up. Two, is do you both work or is it just you?

>> Uh, she has a couple side gigs that maybe bring in $500 a month um on a good

month. >> So, then yeah, that's >> But it's main she homeschools our kids.

So, it's mainly me working outside the home. Yeah, I want you to I do I want you to going back to your initial question of can we go a little bit slower at our 567 p 4 56 pace or do we

need to go with intensity because you're the only one working bringing in a livable wage and because it was only 3 months to begin with I would get intense on this and get it stacked up because every moment that you don't you are in a position of vulnerability.

Yeah, >> I final answer.

>> I I agree with Jade and I'll just give you a personal uh answer. Uh when I have

to touch the emergency fund, it irritates me >> to the nth degree.

>> And Stacy Coleman will tell you we it is it is it's it's gazelle. It's like

>> and I'm you know I mean it's are is that we're ladies point as soon as we touch it the next month I'm trying to get it back >> instant instantly. I just there's a certain thing I got so in love with that concept >> when we first heard it of the emergency fund that um there's a it just

>> it feels great having that there >> and I'm talking like even if it's like and I try to never touch it. That's the other thing >> we are always I'll manipulate the

monthly spending. >> Yeah. >> To try to not You would think the emergency fund wasn't there.

>> That's how much I like the emergency fund. We have an emergency fund for the emer the emergency fund is in a whole different high yield.

>> That's like no one ever It's like a vault. Scrooge McDuck vault.

>> Mine takes 24 hours to get it.

>> Yeah, that's right. And then there's >> a easy to get it. Yeah. You know, and so >> you got a chisel to get to it. >> And by the way, I'm not saying you shouldn't use it. But I'm at a stage of life where when we have the emergency, we're mostly taking care of that. But I'm telling you, I don't like to touch the emergency. So my answer is always going to be you better you better get Gazelle to fill it back up. >> Fill it back up.

>> That's about sleep.

>> I agree. I agree.

>> I sleep better knowing that that >> if we had to tap into three quarters of our emergency fund for emergencies, I would be a wreck today.

>> I promise you. I'd be in my kids' room selling stuff. They wouldn't know what was going on. [laughter] You know, like it'd be like, "Hey, we have a full emergency here.

What's the emergency?" The emergency fund needs to be replenished. Yeah, we're all going to work. [laughter] >> Everybody in this house is getting a job. >> I mean, that's a little it's a little extreme, but it >> No, I hear you.

It pays off. >> Well, it's crazy to think, you know, Well, I can't I'm launching into stories. Never mind. >> Yeah, I took too much [laughter] time on that one, but that's how I am.

Let's go to Amy in Phoenix.

>> Hey there, guys. Thanks for taking my call. >> You bet. What's up? >> Um, it's almost almost along the same line here. So, I am a solo parent and

I'm a sandwich generation. I have a nine-year-old and then my um retired

mother who lives with me and everyone depends upon me, >> okay, >> for their lives. Um, I'm very careful

with insurance. I always have life insurance and I actually just got a million dollar uh term with Xander.

>> Good. I'm I am cancelling my universal

whole life that really hasn't doing much for me. And I also have a whole life

policy I took out on my daughter >> because I was using that as like an investment. Um but I also have learned it's not an investment. But I thought, okay, hey, it just goes towards her education, right? Um, I've decided that

right now I think what is going to help our family out more is that I make sure everyone's provided for because education can be sorted out down the line and we would be going to community colleges. We live in a really good area where we could drive to community college and have great education.

>> So my my emergency savings Okay. So I'm

I'm zero debt.

>> Good. I'm 50. I have 20,000 in my

emergency fund.

Um I am making more money now than I have ever in my life. >> How much? >> And I have um this year I'm at 122.

>> Way to go, mama.

>> And 2026 I should net 190, guys.

>> Fantastic. Okay, we got about one minute. So get to your question. >> Yeah. So should I um get the refunds I'm

getting back from the whole life is going to be around 13,000. Okay. Should I fund my emergency fund to get it up to the 50,000 that it should be at? Should I use that towards the down payment of a house that we're not in yet? Or should I just max out my Roth IRA for 2025 and

2026 using that money?

>> The 50,000. Is that three months or six months of expenses?

>> That's six months. That's six months. uh knowing that you want to buy a a house, I'd be okay with you doing three months and then hitting the hitting the ground running on the down payment. I'd be okay with that. And then once you get the house, if you want to stack it up to six, I'm okay with that.

>> Okay. I that's where I was at where I don't know. I I just know that if anything happens to me, these people have to be provided for.

>> You've done it. >> It takes a while. It takes a while for insurance to kick in. could be it could be delayed up to two to three months before they pay out. I've seen this happen with my father with we've had a lot of debt in our family. >> That's true. But you'll have you'll also have $50,000 sitting there which will be something in the interim.

>> You've done a great job. I'm with Jade.

I think she gave you the right advice. Move forward on it. You've done a great job. Thank you for the call. Remember folks, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's [music] to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 13. Big Incomes Don’t Cancel Out Bad Decisions | September 1, 2025


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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsy Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. George Campbell, number one best-selling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke, Ramsay Personality. and and uh oh various other

things. He is my he's co-host of the smart money happy hour. Many other things around here. He's my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

Katie is going to start us off in Akran, Ohio this hour. Hi Katie, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. So my husband is a physician so he's got a really good income. Um, but

he also has almost $500,000 in student

loan debt. We've been married three years, so I kind of married into his debt. Um, and as such, we're not sure if

now is even an acceptable time to be considering buying a couple of new to us used cars. Um, right now he works out of

state and will for the foreseeable future. Um, so he's gone 50% of the time

and I'm here with all the kids. Um, last week two of our vehicles were broken down at the same time, so I had no transportation. So, I was just uh we're looking to spend maybe a total of 40,000 on a van and a sedan. Um, and just don't

know if we're still supposed to be driving clunkers because of that massive student loan debt.

>> Are we attacking the massive student loan debt?

>> Um, probably not as fiercely as you would like. um which has uh and not as

seriously as I would like either um because because this is a second marriage for both of us. We've both had to kind of adjust our um financial views

a little bit, a little give and take. Um and so I'm more gung-ho than he is, but at the same time, we are still paying them off. Um we've paid off a 100,000 of them in the past uh two years.

>> Yeah. What's he make?

>> He makes um 40 400,000 gross. Mhm.

>> So, we're bringing home a little over 18,000 a month.

>> Mhm. You should be bringing home more than that.

>> Your taxes aren't >> uh it's about it's about n 19,000.

>> Yeah. That's >> after taxes and insurance.

>> That's almost 50%. >> That's almost You don't have a 50% tax.

So, some kind of problems going on here.

>> Is he investing through his retirement plan?

>> Yes, but that's actually already been maxed out for the year. So, yeah, I know. >> Well, that's why you're taking home less as well. That's part of the equation there. >> Yeah. >> So, if we pause investing, you could get back 20 grand in your pens.

>> I mean, the question is not really cars because based on the way you guys are currently living, you're trying to wander out of debt while continuing to do investing and

while you have but do this. You make 400,000, you only paid off a hundred grand in two years. I mean, and it's just awful. So, um, you know, there's no

intensity at all. >> We also have a lot of expenses that others may not have with him working out of state. He has to maintain an apartment out of state. Um, we have

three, well, I have three stepids that live in a different state that he has to go out there to visit on a monthly basis. Um, and so hotel rooms and travel

for that. Um, and then >> yeah, but but truthfully, Katie, you you told you told us you guys are not intense.

>> You you guys are not working our system.

Okay, I'm not mad at you, but so I don't know why whether you buy a car matters.

I mean, if you want to go buy a car, buy a car if you're going to keep working it this way. But you're going to struggle as long as you continue to do this. And so, um, you know, it's, um, you guys are

going to have to decide if you're going to lean into this debt thing and get rid of the debt. If you're going to lean into it, then stop the 401k and buy one

$10,000 car and get rid of these two pieces of crap that keep breaking down.

Um, but you know, as long as y'all keep acting like people that make 400,000, you're going to keep spending what you're spending and you're going to justify it and rationalize it and you're going to stay in debt. You're not going to get out. So, you know, I it doesn't

matter. You know, the $10,000 car doesn't matter. It's But what it does do the question what the question does do in your house, not not with us. It's not doesn't affect us, but between the two of you, it causes you to to say, "Okay,

are we going to do this or not?

>> Are we going to keep limping through this?" Cuz at this current rate, you're going to be in debt for 10 years.

And that's just, you know, that's not a plan. You know, it's not a good plan.

But, uh, and if you're going to do that, then, yeah, sure, buy a car. I mean, it's not buy all the cars you want to buy. I don't care. I mean, it's not it it cuz it doesn't what you're doing is your half butt doing everything and that's just not going to the everything we teach anyway. So, um yeah,

you guys need to have a discussion about this, okay? We need to sit down and make the money we have behave better and we

need to behave better and um we need to

get in very very intense because you are a broke doctor's wife.

You're married to a doctor who is broke.

broke poor people making 400 grand.

That's what you are. So you guys got to decide if that's how you want to live or not. I don't want to live like that. So >> yeah, part of this is getting a line going.

All right, how much can and should we be throwing at this debt? We want to be done in three years. Okay, that's 170 grand a year we got to be throwing at this. What does that take per month?

Once you make it mathematical, >> and what must be true? >> Yeah, we we got to cut. >> What has to be true of our lifestyle? What has to be true of the travel apartment?

What has to be true about this and true about that? And you know, and what's the the way we can for a short period of time? What can we sacrifice?

regardless of if you make 40 grand or you make 400 grand. >> Maybe you can repair the cars for five grand instead of spending 40 and that buys you a few years. Who knows?

>> Yeah. But I think I think what this highlights is not a car issue. What it

highlights is the issue that you guys are the plan you're working, you know, is not not working not well and you're

not on the same page and you guys

probably need to talk about what the flip are going to do going forward. I mean that then that will answer your car

question, you know. >> And do you even have 40 grand in cash to pay for this? >> Yeah, probably not. open phones at8255225.

Jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. So, um, George, one of the

things that happens, and it happened with me, I didn't have a choice cuz I went broke, but you can choose

to take away all your options. You can

choose to take away all your rationalizations. You can choose to do this. And, and you have to kind of run a a mental scenario. So, I always say tell people like, "Okay, you have no money.

What if you had to have $10,000

by Christmas to save the life of your

child with a medical procedure and you

couldn't borrow it, >> what would you do? >> You'd find it. You'd find it." And all of a sudden, all this, "Oh, well, I have to do this and I have to do that and bull crap. We're getting $10,000." If you make it a priority, it happens.

>> It's like it's life or death, >> whatever you focus on. And so you'll see all of a sudden all the all this stuff we think we need >> when you are trying to save the life, you know, when you put it in that kind of a mental gymnastic routine, then you

know, then you're forced into

looking at your life realistically.

>> Yeah. Cuz death isn't life or death, but you kind of have to make it that way to get out. >> No, it's not. But if you say, you know, if you act like that's how important this is, until it becomes important, you're not going to do it. >> That's the thing. As long as there's some something else involved, that's any goal in life, >> you're not going to do it. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Music]

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[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

[Applause] George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Open phones at88255225.

David is in Kansas City. Hi, David.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hello. >> Hi. What's up?

>> Well, I uh I am a divorced man. I'm 69.

I have a relationship with a widow who's

68. She's in another state. We're talking and uh we like to get together, but I'm trying to be a righteous godly man. I don't want to just live together.

I want to get married, but if I get married to her, then she will lose her

pension from her deceased husband, which is quite substantial.

So, um what I was thinking is just

having uh having a church wedding, doing everything the same except not filing for a state license. So, I just wanted your thoughts on that.

>> What is the nature of the pension? I'm confused why she loses it if she remarries. That sounds more like alimony than a pension. >> No, no, it's it's a her her husband was

a police officer for the state of New Jersey, which they have very very generous pensions. And so, uh it's

between three and $4,000 a month. and she would lose that if she remarries.

And what most people do in these situations is they just live together.

They don't even think about it. But I can't do that. It's a deal breaker for me. I would I would want to have some kind of ceremonies. I'm trying to be a righteous man, trying to do the right thing. >> But uh it's and this woman has have been through a lot. She's lost her mother, >> her sister, and her husband within the span of three years. And you know, she's been insecure most of her life. and she's finally has financial security.

And so for me to come and say, "Hey, well, you know, we're going to get married. You're going to >> What is your What is your net worth?"

>> Uh oh, I'm a chiropractor, so I make uh about 90,000 a year, but uh I get some

social security, too. My net worth is uh

not much. Uh 20 20,000 right now. I

don't have anything saved. I lost everything a couple years ago through divorce. M. >> Yep. >> Okay. And how long have you been seeing this lady?

>> Uh, just we've been talking for several

months. >> Mhm. Okay. >> Have you met her?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I said talking. I don't know if you were talking on the phone or >> like long distance. >> No, I I saw her. I saw her last year. I saw her. We met and we talked and she's an old u years ago was a was a

girlfriend in high school. So, >> I know her from back then. I know all about her from back then. >> Okay. All right. Um,

>> yeah. >> Well, it's a difficult one. I not going to argue with you there. Uh, I'm with you, though. There's no question I'm not living with someone I'm not married to.

I can't do that as a person of faith.

Okay. As a Christian, my book tells my book tells me not to do that. So, >> I don't I don't do with the things the book tells me not to do because they don't prosper me and they're not good for the people in my life and people around me and so forth. So, I just try to even though it doesn't make sense sometimes, I just do what the book says.

And so, I'm not doing that. It's not I'm I'm not like a Pharisee. It just is it's just worked good for me, you know. So, uh I'm a I'm a follower.

>> Well, there's a lot of people that do do that. They just live together. >> Yeah, I know. I know they do.

And they seem It seems like it's okay, but but you and I know that there's other issues. So, uh so then the only question if you go to the church wedding and you don't file with the state >> is just it's not a no longer a theological or doctrinal or religious question. it. You've solved that.

only question on the table is you are intentionally lying.

It's an integrity issue.

Uh just to keep this in place. And that that's a that's also a potential deal

breaker. I've got to work through that in my head if I'm in your shoes. Um I'm

not saying you're doing that, but I'm you you know, this is basically a maneuver to manipulate and not tell

these people you're married.

um and you are married and so that's deception you know there's no question about that and um there's good reasons

for it here but it is >> what who who you know gets back to who instituted marriage was marriage instituted by the government or was it instituted by >> No it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't you and I know when you go get married you're married okay and you know that the state of New Jersey did not want this pension going to her when she remarried and you're not telling them is what you're doing and So, you know that that that I've just got to work through that.

can't get I'm 63, so you and I could be in the same boat someday. I'm not. But, uh I'm not today, but I So I'm trying to relate and think through um

uh >> Well, I'm not trying to game, >> you The other thing is I I would investigate if there are um

>> any uh uh things that you can file with the pension board for uh individual exceptions like the the particular nature of >> I did hire an attorney. Yeah, I did hire an attorney. I looked into it and they said there's nothing much you can do.

And that's just kind of crazy to me because the state is actually promoting, you know, uh, a fornication lifestyle.

That's okay. It's okay.

>> Well, they they do they do with a lot of things. I mean, they they do with a lot of things with they do with the tax code. They do with a lot of other things. So, that's not that's not new.

That doesn't change your stance or my stance. We have to do our thing regardless of what the stupid state does. >> There's a lot of things that are legal that aren't right.

>> So, um, >> well, that's what I'm saying. If I'm doing this right in my eyes before on the ser I'm just talking it through with you.

You're more than welcome to do whatever you want to do. I I'm not saying you're a bad guy. I'm just talking it through with you. If I'm in your shoes, I've got to work through the fact that I am intentionally deceiving the state. And is that okay? And I'll give you a parallel example in my life is that I

hate so much so that just talking about it right now my heart rate is changing. I hate the federal income tax. It is

absolutely immoral, out of control,

pitiful. The money that I send to the federal government makes me want to throw up every time I think about it. I

hate it.

It's pitiful how bad they run this country. And I keep and they keep milking me even more, taking my money at the point of a gun. I hate it. But you know what?

I pay 100% to the penny that I owe. I

take every legal regulation and loophole they allow me to take and I'm a student of it. And I hire people with expensive checks that are students of it so that I can give them as little as possible with 100% of integrity.

But I hate it. Did I mention that I hate it? That I bring that up. And so, you

know, but it's it's not about them. It's about me. Am I doing the right thing?

So, if I'm in your shoes, I've got to get I'm not going to accept your lawyer's answer. I'm going to get with this get with these people. I'm going to talk to uh the governor. Crap. Call the

governor and talk to him. I mean, talk to the whoever runs the the police commission in the state of New Jersey and say, "Look, this guy died on the job

and you're denying his widow the right to move forward with her life with this.

It's ridiculous. You're asking her to shack up at 69 years old like she's some kind of 19-year-old that can't keep their pants on. This is ridiculous. And

and you guys need to you need to give us an exception on this. I'm going to I'm going to bust them. >> Yeah. >> If I'm you. And I understand why they do it, by the way, but uh to keep somebody from uh keep the widows from being a target >> later with them with the juicy pension.

>> But um I'm not saying he's targeting her at she if they get married, you know, he's he makes $90,000. That would effectively replace her income as long as they're married, but it still puts her at a precarious situation.

>> I she she's not going to want to do that. She's just she's been through hell and she's this money means a lot to her.

>> Um and so I I understand the predicament and I'm not uh unsympathetic to it, but you asked and so I got to tell you the way we answer questions in the show is what would we do if we woke up in your shoes, right? I mean, put your shoes on, walk in them. I I I hope I'm not ever in those shoes. Those are difficult shoes.

Uh but the first thing I got to solve is for the doctrinal part, the the the faith issue. You've solved for that one.

That one's done. >> And then I'll fight the bureaucracy after that. >> Yeah. That's like a couple of kids getting married in their 20s or something and they want to have a big fabulous wedding, but they want to go ahead and get married. They want to go and live together now. So they get they go to the church and they get married and then six or eight months later they have a wedding for all their friends.

And that's okay cuz they're married. That's that's, you know, financially, legally, uh, spiritually, all in line.

It's a, you know, that it's in that kind of same bucket for me as far as that goes. But I don't care if you register with the state, but I do care about deception in my life. I don't want to be the guy that's doing that. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Music]

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George Camel Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. The best way to make the most of your money is by creating and sticking to a plan. It's called a budget. Yes, I said the B- word right here on the radio. You need a budget.

You need a plan. You need to make every dollar behave. And every dollar is our

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You can download Every Dollar for free in the App Store and at Google Play and

you really ought to. Um here's the worst

thing. Go get on a budget. Lean into it,

especially if you're married. Do it for 90 days.

And if you hate it,

quit.

But after but what I've been doing this for 30 years. When I get people to do a budget for 30 days, they feel like they got a raise. It increases the quality and the depth of the communication in their marriage. They feel like they got traction towards their goals. They feel in control. Their anxiety goes down over money. I mean, all because of a budget.

Well, before you think there's like the boogeyman exists with your money, like where is it going and I don't want to look? And then you just finally look and you go, "Okay, we can solve this problem now that we actually looked at it." >> Well, I mean, like, where's all our money going? Oh, wait. There it is. It's going out to eat. >> So, you can't complain about feeling that way if you haven't actually done a budget. >> Try it. Worst thing can happen is you hate it because where you are sucks. So,

you might as well change where you are.

>> It's the old political thing. They say, "Are you better off than you were four years ago?" Try that with a budget. Are you better off than you were 90 days ago when you had no clue what was happening with your money? >> No. You're still sitting there like a hamster and a wheel. Run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run. Get nowhere.

Kim is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Kim. How are you?

>> Hi. Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, so just my question is my husband and I were missionaries. Um, and we came back to the States to give birth. Um, and wound up having a medical

emergency while we were out of state.

who we had estate insurance and we were visiting my husband's family. Wound up giving birth to my son early and he was

in the NICU for a month. I was in the hospital two weeks leading up to that.

Um and because we were out of state, even though we had emergency insurance from my coverage, it was still denied for everything. Um and so right now we're facing somewhere between four and $500,000 in in medical debt. Um, and

we're in the snowball staging right now.

>> Whoa, whoa, whoa. Stop getting out of bed. Oh, just stop a second. I got to catch back up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, you had you had a baby

>> that was in NICU and you were a missionary overseas, but you came back to the States and you're under you were under whose insurance? Your husband's >> a state just a normal state insurance.

>> State.

>> Yes. And because it was out of state, they wouldn't cover anything.

>> Yeah. Um, you know, we had the emergency insurance, so it should have been state.

What state is the insurance in?

>> Um, it was a Florida insurance.

>> Why did you not go to Florida to do the medical care?

>> We were um we were visiting my husband's family um who is from lives in a different state. So, we were just >> And there was a problem with the baby and they took the baby and put it in NICU. Yeah, >> it was an emergency and you didn't have the option to go to Florida.

>> Correct. >> I got you. Okay. And Florida's state insurance does not have that as a contingency for an emergency to save the

life of a child. >> It does. Yeah, it does. But through for

whatever reason, they're still denying all the coverage of it. We've appealed multiple times. >> Well, I think I think you need to get I think you need to get some professional representation then on that.

>> Okay. Yeah. Because I'm not going to I'm not going to set up two missionary kids with a kid in NICU to take care of a half million dollars >> uh worth of medical.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz I'm guessing you're poor as church mice.

>> Yeah. >> I mean I never met rich missionaries.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> They don't they don't I just hadn't run into them. So you're not probably not sitting on a half million in your mutual fund. I'm guessing. >> No, not at all. >> All right. So, I think you got to f solve this by throwing this back onto the Florida system. And so, what you need to do is you need to get in touch with uh your state senators and state

representatives and with the governor's office in Florida. Um, and and start

hassling your politicians.

>> Okay?

You remember the story where uh that

Jesus told of the woman who would not be denied? She just kept knocking on the door. Knocking on the door, knocking on the door, knocking on the door.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. That's you.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz you don't have a half million dollars and you're not going to see a half million dollars anytime soon. So, you've got to solve this through >> uh political pressure and or legal pressure, maybe an attorney. Um because

that's that if they pick up their part, what they're supposed to pick up here, it's going to change your whole life. Agreed.

>> Yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure.

Definitely. >> Have you talked to the administration at the hospital? They don't even do it.

>> Yeah. So, they um they said that once the third because I guess there's a rule with insurance companies that once you get three denials, it's like there's no possibility of getting it covered. So that they won't let us um apply for the financial aid until we get that third denial from the insurance. >> Yeah. You're not going to get a third denial. You're gonna get it covered.

>> Yeah. Exactly. I've been really scared.

>> Yeah. You have to scared to go through that third one. >> Don't worry about You don't have anything for them to take.

>> Yeah. >> So you're okay. Okay. They don't repo

babies, so you're okay. How is your baby? How are they doing?

>> He's doing amazing now. The Lord definitely healed him. um while he was in the NICU and surprised all the doctors on how quickly he recovered. So >> yeah. So are y'all out of the hospital everything now? Is it all behind you?

>> Yeah, you're the everything but the bill. >> Yeah. So So you're not Are you in North Carolina still?

>> Yeah, we're in North Carolina now. Um just we're about to launch back out to to our country in a week that we serve in over in Southeast Asia. So >> Okay. All right. Well, you you have you have a new hobby.

>> Yeah. >> It's the state of Florida.

>> Okay. >> Really? I want you to become an expert on hassling politicians and insurance

commissioners and getting uh an

attorney. Uh are you serving with a missionary organization?

>> Yes, we are. >> Okay. Talk to the U senior people in

that organization and see if they have anybody on staff that does legal work.

Okay. >> And see if you can get an onstaff attorney to start hassling Florida.

>> Okay. Yeah, I know we don't have that.

So, well, it would definitely be all on us. >> Uh, let me try one more time. Okay.

You're serving with a missionary organization.

How many people serve in the mission field with this organization?

>> Um, around 300.

>> Okay. Probably some of the host churches, the support churches then have

an attorney who's hanging around that church, goes to church there, who would love to help a young missionary couple

>> get rid of a half million dollar problem.

>> Yeah, that's definitely a great idea.

>> Yeah. And so, let's talk to some of the senior pastors, uh the uh church board

members, whatever we want to call the the leadership, the deacons, the leadership team of those particular churches and say, "Hey, got a young missionary couple serving in in Southeast Asia. Uh, we got a niku problem. Uh, we need some of the big boys to come in and help here. We need we need a little legal SWAT team.

>> And uh, I think you can put But that's your job is put all that together rather than sit and watch this thing

deteriorate before your eyes and oh, it's third denial and the third denial is the final denial and nothing can happen after that. Oh, bull.

>> Channel your inner Dave. Bull.

>> Persistence. Be resourceful. cause problems. >> It's what Dave's been doing for 30 years. >> George >> worked out. >> George, it's a spiritual game.

>> Wheel gets the grease is all I'm saying.

And Dave's been squeaky. You got to get squeaky to get this done.

>> You You just called me squeaky. You did.

>> You've been called worse today if I'm going to be honest.

>> You've been reading the comments again, haven't you, George? I told you quit reading the comments. >> It's the only enjoyment I get out of life, Dave. >> Man, the trolls. You know, I don't try to please the masses cuz I'm well aware the M is silent. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Justin in Minnesota.

Many people think that for a person to become wealthy, other people must lose wealth because it's a limited pie that is sliced up unequally. I think wealth can be created through innovation, for example, and therefore not limited. What is your opinion of this?

>> Well, Justin, you would be correct.

>> This is a great philosophical.

>> The pi theory is someone that is

ignorant of basic economics.

The size of the economy shrinks. That's

called recession.

Grows.

Grows too fast and too much. It's called inflation.

The economy is constantly growing in size. The number of dollars moving

around the economy today is way different than it was in 1776, darling.

So this idea that we've simply been swapping of the size slices of the pie around since 1776, we would all still be living in log cabins shooting musketss,

that's dumb. Okay. Obviously the

economy, the size of it changes. So you don't if if someone that believes that by taking by getting money that someone else is being taken from automatically

is a fixed pieor and it just shows ignorance of economics. So simple. A good way to explain I love Rabbi Lapen's picture. It's one of my favorites of all times on this. He said the economy and

he's an Orthodox Jewish rabbi wrote a wonderful book called Thou Shalt Prosper about prosperity. He said the and he addresses this exact issue. He says the economy is not a pie where if you get a

bigger slice, someone else gets a smaller slice. The e the economy is more like a candle. When you light it, it

doesn't take away from yours. It just adds light and so the economy because

money moves just exactly like that. You can show you can show several examples

uh on how money actually grows. So Justin, you're right. Innovation isn't a good example of that. And so money is literally created uh and no one is the lesser for it. Now

if you if there were only two people on the planet when I took when George took some of my money, I would have less. He would have more >> if we both placed a bet and I was right and Dave gives me his money. He lost, I win. >> That's where that would make sense.

>> Exactly. >> But the stock market is different. If an Apple share goes up in value because the company is worth more and they make great products, nobody lost in that scenario. >> It's because they sold more of those little iPhone thingies.

Hello. And that's where why Apple has um you know more money than Egypt, literally.

um it's pretty crazy. Yeah. But that's it. And so it it's economies are created. And you can also another place to look at that I'm Egypt made it come to mind but not picking on Egypt that's just a joke but it's also happens to be statistically true. Uh but the um if you

go to a country that is underdeveloped

that has a weak economy

um what is the difference in that and a what we call a developed country where it has a strong and booming economy.

It's not that one of them was issued a larger pie by God.

It's that the booming economy grew

by innovation, by industriousness,

by service, by whatever it is they're doing. Uh, and it causes the dollars or the the currency >> and the GDP will expand, >> the GDP, the gross domestic product, which is the total of all goods and services sold in an economy. And so and

and that's why some of these comparisons by some of these wealth equality people are the people like they're arguing back during Obamacare. They're arguing about well Norway has free health care. Well

the Norway's economy is the size of Atlanta's.

It's not it's not even in the same ballpark. It's like tricycles go slower than motorcycles too, honey. So I mean it's like no kidding. It's a different thing.

They don't even belong in the same sentence. That again just shows the sheer freaking ignorance of people on basic econ economic stuff. Well, Norway has free healthcare. Well, so does Mury'sboro, Tennessee.

I mean, no, it doesn't. But I mean, good God, that doesn't even show up, y'all. I mean, come on. So, it's the same kind of thing that goes on.

hope versus hopelessness.

Is scarcity mentality versus abundance

mentality. The people that that Justin

that that are coming at you with this, they're they have Eeyore as their spirit animal. It's like, oh, it's bad. It's always going to be bad. It's always been bad. The little man can't get ahead cuz

the big guy's taking all the pie and

there's perpetual freaking whining. It's

unbelievable.

Instead of getting up, throwing your shoulders back, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. Shut up.

>> So, it's basically I'm broke because other people are rich and >> I because I refuse to actually look at the real problem, which is the guy in my mirror. You know, it's like I'm gonna blame Dunkin Donuts because I have a belly because I can't stay away from their donuts. It's not Dunkin Donuts fault. It's Dave's fault. He eats too many freaking donuts. That's Dave's fault. You know, there's a reason I don't look like Mr. Universe. And it's not Dunkin Donuts fault.

>> Depends what Universe >> or Well, well, that's true. But Crispy Cream either, by the way. So, we'll just be a multiple. >> It's their fault for making addictive products. >> You know, it's their fault. They made an addictive product. All that sugar just made me want to stand over there every time the hot light comes on. Oh my god.

Am I a victim of this? No. Okay. So, me

too, boys and girls. Me, too. But you need to decide who you're going to blame in this because it's the difference between uh scarcity mentality and

abundance mentality. It's the difference between fixed pie and candles. It's the difference between uh hopelessness and hope. It's the difference between victor and victim. And all of these things line up and those things make you are are the things that going to make you successful or not successful. Not the fact that someone got yours so you can't get it out of the little fixed pie. I think I need a cheesecake now.

>> I think I'm getting hungry thinking about all this. >> Yeah. Oh, there's a lot of food in this all these analogies. >> The the extension of this is should billionaires exist? I've seen this come about. Well, billionaires just should not exist, Dave. Apparently, once you hit 999 million, that's it. You're fine.

You're a good person. Once you hit billionaire, apparently you become a terrible, awful human being. Is it true?

>> I thought I thought it was millionaire, but um I mean I've heard the game. Yeah.

It's like wealth is evil.

>> No, it's not. People are stupid.

Wealth is not evil. Well, money is just like a brick. You can build a hospital with it or you can throw it through a window. The brick doesn't care. But when you have put it in the hands of a human being, you discover whether that human being is a or not. You discover whether they're a jerk or not. You discover whether they're a sweet, giving, generous person or not. When you hand people money, it doesn't it doesn't cause them to become something. It reveals who they already are. Well, money ruined my children. No, darling.

Your children were already idiots. You handed them money and proved it.

>> It just lets them that fire added gasoline on. >> That's not I mean it's not it. That's just ridiculous. So this idea that, you know, somehow wealth is evil. Well, I

mean, the Bible says that money is the root of all evil. See, that's what happens if you get your theology off a tick tock. The Bible does not say that.

It says the love of money is the root of

all evil, which is an indication not of anything about money or amounts of money. It's an indication of the character of the individual that touched it. So if you're going to practice dadgum Christian doctrine, actually learn it before you open your mouth.

God, this stuff is so aggravating to me.

And so this this idea that somehow someone has done something wrong in America because they went and helped a lot of people and made a lot of money in the process. No one was pissed off when I sold a $12 book called Financial Peace out of the back of my car and I sold 10 of them and I was starving to death.

When I sold 10 million of them, somehow people got pissed off. Now you're greedy, Dave. >> Now I'm greedy and I take advantage of poor people. Oh my god. See, this is the problem. If you ever read comments, if you read the comments after articles, you know why some species kill their young. >> So, oh my gosh. Open phones here. That's

how that wraps that little rant up.

>> Sorry to wind you up. I just wound them up and I shouldn't have given me caffeine and a good and a good subject.

There we go. >> I'll get you a donut for the next hour.

>> Oh, I'll feel so much better.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they

love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. The phone number is8255225.

Patrick is in Boston. Hey, Patrick. How are you?

>> I'm doing great, sir. It's a pleasure to speak with you. >> You, too. What's up?

>> Well, sir, uh 2 years ago, uh got divorced and um the house was kind of

left in limbo. Uh didn't sell it. Uh I

couldn't buy my ex-wife out of the house. She couldn't buy me out. So, the deal was that I basically stay in the house um until either I sell it or our

son comes of age. and I I'm kind of

stuck between whether I should sell the house now because it does have some equity in it or if I stay in the house,

I owe her half of the proceeds of the sale and I'm just not sure whether I

want to be giving her all of those all that equity that I'm putting into the house at this point. >> Yeah. Every repair you do, she gets half of. Every payment you pay, she gets half of. This is not a good deal for you.

>> Yeah. and it's something I've been thinking about for a little while. Um, and there's plenty of equity in the house uh to to give her right now.

>> I would sell it. >> So, all right.

>> The sooner you sell, the less damage you're doing by paying more of her share

>> that or refinance it and buy her out.

Can you refinance and get a mortgage and pay out her half?

>> Uh, it's possible. I, you know, since rates went up, I haven't really looked into that very deeply, but that's certainly a possibility.

>> Well, do you want to stay there? >> Yeah. What's the Do you want the house?

>> Uh, to to be honest, no. I I don't want to stay here. I'm not from New England.

Okay. >> Originally, and I would like to leave.

So, that's also something I've been thinking about, but >> that's fairly easy. Then it becomes a no-brainer.

>> I would do it as soon as possible. And if uh you you need a guy you can trust, a gal you can trust, you can go to ramiesolutions.com/agent.

And those are the folks in your area who we trust, who we vet to help you with these transactions. >> Ron is in Indianapolis. Hey, Ron.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi Dave. Uh, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up? >> I uh a quick background. I'm um 74 years

old, active. Uh refused to quit working.

I got about four streams of income coming in. >> But I'm late to the party. I uh I do have a paid for rental house. I've got a 30 $38,000 in a helock on my on my

primary residence and I've only got $22,000 in my IRA.

I've got about $1,800 in savings. Um so,

uh I have $4,100 in a credit card.

Besides the helock, the credit card will be paid off in September. >> What do you make?

Um, I make between 58 and six grand a

month. >> Okay. All right. Well, I would plow through the credit card and the helock and build your emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses and then start investing for retirement.

>> Okay. So, that that was one of my questions. I should pay off the heliloc uh and not do investing and heloc.

>> No, you should get rid of the helock and the credit card first as fast as you can. I mean, really, really, really fast. like living on beans and rice fast.

>> Well, I'm hoping I'll have that paid off by September, the credit card, and then I'm I'm hoping to uh I I was thinking I

should build my emergency fund >> after the HELOC's done.

>> After the HELOC, what's the balance on the helock? Just 20 grand, wasn't it?

>> 38. >> 38 600.

>> Yeah. And you're making, you know, you're making 70 or 80,000 a year. I I would knock that thing out like it was a credit card.

>> Okay. And then you'd be 100% debtree house and everything, right?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. And then you build your emergency fund and then you start investing into retirement. >> That's exactly what I would do in that situation. >> And time is of the essence. I mean, you're 74. I want to see you retire with dignity one day when you can't work. I know you're choosing to work right now, which is cool, but one day, you know, you might not be able to, and I want to see you with no payments. >> Yeah, that helock being gone is a big deal here. It's a really big deal.

George is in San Diego. Hey, George.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey, how you doing? >> Hey, how can we help?

>> Hey, so um I'm just looking over my finances the other day and uh let me speaker. And uh me and my wife, we just got to a point where we're making $100,000 a year after taxes

and um we have

no money really to do anything. It seem it feels like uh we only have a couple of bills, a couple of hard costs, and then all of our fixed costs um like you know, living, gas, uh groceries, etc. Um

pretty much take up everything. And um

I'm wondering what what would you how do I look at this? How do I look at this?

cuz I what I think of, you know, we're making $100,000 um about $8,000 a month when you average it all up and we're still not able it feels like we're still kind of living paycheck to paycheck. Is that normal or is there What should I be looking at here to uh >> Well, you're you've got an idea in your head, but you're not doing a written plan.

This is all in your head.

And so you need a detailed written budget that you and your spouse

both agree to. And then you need to stick to it. Then you'll figure out where the money's going and figure out what the problem is.

There's no outside forces here that are conspiring against you.

>> So, how much are your pay how much is your house payment?

>> Well, right now, so we we just moved out of the place we were currently living at uh a couple of weeks ago. We're staying at uh my wife's mom's for three months.

>> Wow. And um and right now because we we

were we got put in a weird situation. We rented from a subleasase uh landlord um

and then three >> Okay. So what are you going to do for housing?

>> Well, for right now we're staying here. We're paying 500 bucks a month. >> I know. But you're not going to stay there long.

>> No, we want to be out of here 3 months maximum. >> Okay. What are you going to do at the end of three months?

>> Right now we're we're searching pretty much every day on Zillow >> for a purchase or a rental. and a dog

rental. >> Okay. And what do you think your rental is going to run >> right now? I mean, for what we're looking for, um, we're I mean, everything that we see is going to be in the 3500 at a bare minimum um to 4,000

range. >> You can't do that on $8,000.

>> That's half of your take. >> You can't You cannot have a rent payment that's half of your take-home pay. It's not sustainable.

What's a healthy percentage?

>> 25%.

>> Two grand. >> I don't think you could. Yeah. So, we were paying we were paying 25 >> uh we had a one-bedroom, 600 square foot

>> Mhm. >> you know, small place.

>> Here's the thing. You have $100,000 to work with.

The math doesn't change just because you

live in an expensive area.

you you know you still are constrained by that. You still are going to be broke your whole life and struggling and stressed out if you take a rental payment that's 50% of your take-home pay. You've got to get it down towards that 25% mark. If you can't, then that means you can't afford to live in the area you're looking in. You need to move further out, increase the income.

George, go to everydoll.com, list out that income, list out every single expense, and you'll figure out real quick where it's all going and what you need to do. >> It's not sustainable.

You don't get a pass on math because you live in San Diego. This is the Ramsey Show.

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George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Bill is with us in San Diego. Hi, Bill. How are you?

>> Bill, hello, Bill. >> Here. >> Hey, how are you? How can we help?

>> I am good. How are you? >> Good. How can we help today, sir?

>> All right. So, uh, my wife and I combined, we make about 5 to 600 000 a

year but uh we still somehow are unable

to save as much as I believe we should save. So our you know so that's my

problem. I mean our monthly expenses are about $30,000 a month and uh you know

then add taxes to that. So we pretty much even out every year and I believe when we make $5 to $600,000 a year we should be able to save more.

>> I would agree. I think the $30,000 a month expense is your clue.

>> How much of that is debt payments?

>> Uh well, it's on two properties. One is

primary residence and one is an investment property. And the debt payments uh on the mortgage are uh added to about uh $12,000 a month.

>> Yeah. Why do you need $18,000 a month to

run your household?

Uh well about $8 to $9,000

go to charity uh for a good cause and then the rest like I would say about $10,000 is uh for

groceries um utilities

uh for the car payment and uh a little

bit for uh you know towards the >> Why do you have car payments when you make $600,000 a year?

Say that again. >> Why would you have a car payment when you make $600,000 a year?

>> Well, we uh one of the car is paid off or the other one it's a lease. So, we make about $750 a month for that one cuz

we have a bigger family, five people.

So, you know, it's a a relatively bigger SUV. >> Well, which you could have written a check and purchased

>> and should have instead of leasing and renting your car for $700 a month. Okay.

So, um, yeah,

you're giving away $100,000 a year in that $30,000 a month budget. You said 8 to $10,000.

>> So, there's where $100,000 of it goes,

>> right? >> Uh, yeah. Easy. Yeah. Could be more than that. 100 to$120. Yeah.

>> Mhm. Okay. And, um, you know, and you've

got a car payment. Um, yes. and which we

would not have. Um,

uh, and what do you guys do for a living?

>> I, uh, own a business and my wife, uh,

works with a, uh, with a company. She makes about 100,000 and the rest is my income. And I, I own a service business, service based business.

>> Okay. All right. Um,

the way you're discussing this, the language you're using is very uh general.

It's not precise about the numbers, which tells me you're kind of just throwing this over there and then just shocked that it disappeared. So, um, if

I woke up in your shoes, you've got a level of disgust says this is not okay is what you're saying. We make this kind of money. We shouldn't have no money. We should know a car payment when we make 600 grand. We should have just bought the car. Um,

then what I would do is simply do a

detailed budget with your spouse and come into

agreement of what we want to give, what

we want to save, and what we want to

spend and what we want to spend it on.

And every month before the month begins, every dollar has an assignment. Exactly.

But it kind of feels like, Bill, uh, I went through a period of time in my life where I thought I could out earn my stupidity, my lack of organization, my lack of detail. And you can't.

If you had a person working in your business that was managing a section of your business as poorly as you are managing your finances, you would fire them for incompetence.

And so you got to kind of treat it that way from an emotional standpoint and do a detailed budget. >> And it's funny, Dave, as people make more, especially people who are good at making money, like Bill's good at making money, you're good at making money, you think you can just solve the problem by, well, I'll just make more money as long as we don't overdraft, we're doing okay.

But when you do that budget, you realize if this was a business, you go, we are wasting a lot of money in this business.

We could be doing a lot better if we cut the spending, get out of this debt. We might need to sell this investment property. It's not a blessing right now.

might need to downshift some of our giving a little bit until we get back on track. So that's the kinds of things you would the levers you'd be pulling if this was a business. You need to treat your household the same way. >> Yeah. Every you know, you need to detail it out and then stick to it and both of

you you and your wife have an agreement.

You're both looking at it. You're not bringing it in, slapping it down on the table and declaring, "I have done a budget. You people will live on it." That won't work. No. You get your wife involved in the disgust. It's not okay that we make this much money and we have no money. It's not okay that we make this much money and we don't invest. Um, so generosity is awesome. Investing is

amazing. Enjoying money, yes, you

should. All three things, but very,

very, very, very, very, very intentional. And right now, you're not intentional.

You're kind of throwing a bail of dollars over the fence and then coming back to see what's left later. M >> and after the family devour it. And so

um it may be you downshift your giving.

Your giving is pretty heavy. I'm not against generosity in any form. I tell

folks to do it all the time. Um but if you're doing zero investing and you're giving 20%. Uh you may need to adjust

that at least temporarily. But I think you got some lifestyle issues and I think you guys just kind of walk around do whatever you want because you make enough money. And I think if you'll just actually pay attention and say, "No, we're not doing that. No, that's crazy.

That that's a that's a we we're spending what on that?" Yeah. And you start actually telling the money what to do.

You'll very naturally uh tighten this up

a little bit. Dne is in Houston, Texas.

Hi, Dane. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing good, Mr. Randy. How about yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So me and my wife, I'm the only one that works out of the family.

We got two kids. Only debt we have is our house. We owe about $141,000 on it. And we were going to continue paying towards the house and paying it off sooner. But we were wondering, should we sell the house and move farther in away from Galveston Bay or

our insurance ain't so expensive? My flood insurance is about 3,000 a year.

homeowners with fires about 2,000 and my windstorms around 1,500.

Should we sell the house what that we have a 2.7% interest on and move further in for a more expensive house with a higher interest rate or stay?

>> Well, in a sense, you have a high interest rate now because you have a hurricane tax.

>> That's true. >> In a sense, um uh because of the

location of the property. Um >> Yes, sir. You know, I I uh

it's causing you pain. I can you it's causing which because you ask the question, well, I mean, the only thing wrong with moving is that you're going to not going to get the same rate next time. Well, whoopity dupy. When rates come down, you can refinance. We b we marry the house, we date the rate. So, rates are temporary.

>> Yes, sir. >> And if you're going to pay pay this thing off in the next few years, if it's at 140 and you go, we're going to aggressively get this thing down to zero in the next 5 years, the interest rate is not going to matter that much.

Right. Yeah. We planned on paying the house off that we're in now, but in the next 5 to 10 years. >> Yeah. And if you bought one the similar price range, you could do the same thing, but you didn't have all the insurance cost, >> right? >> So, I wouldn't go just upgrading and house and get a way more expensive house and get a way bigger mortgage just to get out of this tax and insurance.

>> It's not necessary. Um, yeah, buy a similar price range. If your payment goes up a little, so what? But I'd buy a similar price range and make the move.

Here's the way the best way to handle this sometimes is look

out 10 years, 20 years

>> and say, "Where do I want to be?" >> Okay. If you if you have this house paid for 20 years from now, what is that insurance cost going to do? It's going to go up every year.

>> Yes, sir. >> Or it's even going to be worse. It's going to be like Florida. It's going to be hard to get at all.

>> Right. >> Right. Um and this and the house is

going to go on up in value. There's no question about that. But you live in this constant, you're in a storm zone is what it amounts to. So 10 years from now, if you move inland and you pay it off, you're going to have more normal taxes, more normal insurance, and you're going to see appreciation just as well.

So where do you want to live 10 years from today with a paid for house?

That'll answer your question. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Applause]

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[Music]

Thank you for joining us, America. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke, is my co-host

today. Stacy's in Houston. Hi, Stacy.

How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. How are you doing? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Praise God. Um, so I just had a question. Um, we are in baby step two

right now. I just came across your your website and and your YouTube channel and everything. And so we are in baby step uh two. However, I had a huge question about my vehicle. Um, I have my husband.

He owns his work car, but we are paying on my vehicle, and we're wondering, just based off of everything that I've seen with your videos, we're wondering if we should get rid of that car. Like, if we should um yeah, somehow get rid of the one that I have.

>> Well, welcome to the tribe.

>> Hi. >> Yeah. So, it's it's been tight around there, and it's not been fun lately, huh?

>> No, it has not been fun. Definitely not.

Uh we've I feel like we've been married for 5 years now going to six. Um and we

always struggled with money and so actually uh we did download your every dollar app and through that app we have noticed that the big mistake that we're

making is that we're spending more than what he makes. And so we were actually able to see how much money he actually makes in a month. And it's like well you know we're broke because we want to be broke. So, we're really tying everything down. We're both on board. And so, um, I

feel like this is the best way that I can >> You're both on board. I heard that, right? >> Yes. Definitely. Yes, we are.

>> You started out with I download the thing and then you went to later on in the conversation, we did the app together. So, it does sound like you're both on board. I'm good with that. Okay.

>> So, I'm proud of you.

So, what do you owe on the car?

>> So, right now we owe um 28355.

>> Have you looked up what it's worth?

>> It is worth No, I have not actually.

>> Okay. Go to kellybluebook kbb.com. It's

probably the most accurate. You can also look at Edmonds for car values. Those are two good places to get values. They put out two types of values on there.

trade in, which is wholesale, what a dealer would give you for it, which obviously they're going to make a profit on that number. And then private sale,

which is if you put it in traders or something like that and or Craigslist or whatever, and you sold it yourself to an an individual to individual, and that's more of a closer to a retail number. The third number is retail, which you can't get because you're not a dealer. Um, but your probably private sale number is what you're looking at. What kind of car is it? What is it?

It's a 2023 Volkswagen Tiguan. Small

SUV. >> Okay. All right. Nice car. All right.

And uh what's your household income?

>> It is um

Well, kind of depends. Right now he's making um

Right now he's making about I mean worst case a week it's 1,881

but it's looking more like 2394.

It depend his hours are different. So I >> So if you get if he gets OT he gets a couple grand a week.

>> Yes he does. We're talking about six figures at least. >> So he's making 70 $80,000 a year depending on overtime.

>> Yes. I mean up to 100 but probably not getting 2k every week. Okay.

>> Okay. >> That's takehome though but isn't it?

>> Yes, this is take home. >> Okay. That's that's good news. >> What other debt do you have?

>> So we have let's see. So we have the uh

we have one credit card that has 867 on

it. Uh we have a loan our AC busted. We

had to redo the unit and that right now the balance is 2015.

We owe my dad uh 10,630, the car

payment, and the house. >> Okay, that'll do it. If I woke up in

your shoes, yes, I would sell this car,

>> right? >> You're right. It's the one thing on the list that just screams at me in your numbers like it did at you when you wrote it down, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> It's one of the only things you can sort of undo in this mess.

>> Yeah. The rest of it, you're going to have to claw through and live on beans and rice. Rice and beans. You've heard that already on the website. Didn't take you long to get to that number.

>> And scorched earth. We don't eat out unless we're working in that restaurant. We don't see the inside of it. We're not going on vacation. He's picking up all the OT he can. You're selling so much stuff the kids think they're next. And you're going to get this mess cleaned up.

>> Yeah. And here's the beautiful part with the numbers you just gave me. If he can get more overtime rather than less, and you sell this car, you're debtree in a year.

>> Yeah. Um actually I was going down the numbers and we went at it like a gazelle

running from the hunter. I mean uh we we put God above everything else as well and that really spoke to us and we've been you know studying the Proverbs uh scripture that you mentioned in the video with the baby steps. And so um we're looking at paying two of these loans or two of these debts. We're paying these off by the beginning of November.

>> Yeah. >> So yeah, this is great. And then my the loan that we have with my dad that's and you know everything is great there with the family but we do need to pay this back obviously. Yeah.

>> Um he says to take our time but we need to get it out. >> I want it out of my life. I want it's weighing on you more than >> because you've already breathed in the air of what it's going to feel like to have no payments. You can already get your head around those emotions right now.

And now you want it.

You're doing great. You're going to kill it. This is awesome. Yeah. Sell the car.

Yeah. Cuz a car, listen, you get you another car later, whatever you want.

But if you'll drive like no one else and you'll live like no one else later, you can live like no one else and you'll get to drive like no one else.

>> That's right. >> Stacy, I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It comes with three months of Every Dollar Premium, so you can connect it to your bank. You can track all of your expenses with smart tracking.

It'll make it real easy for you guys to do this journey. And I hope the book is an encouragement to you. Uh, but you guys are already there. I mean, the fact the way she's talking, this debt might as well already be paid off.

It is so interesting, George, that over the 30 plus years of doing this that I talk to somebody making $200,000 a year and they got $40,000 worth of debt. They don't think they can do it. >> And I talked to somebody with $100,000 worth of debt that makes $60,000 a year and they think they can do it >> and they actually do and they're the ones that actually do it. And so she's her numbers are excellent, but what's much better than her numbers are her is her language.

>> It's the it's revealing her heart and and where they are.

She's been diving in. She's studying the stuff already. I mean, she's brand new to Ramsey stuff and she's already spouting that like she knows it all. So, >> well, there's two pieces that were encouraging.

Number one, she looked in that financial mirror. They actually did the budget and they went, "Oh crap, we're spending more than we make. That makes sense. That's how we got here.

We got to do something about that." And the other one was the language of just belief that it wasn't someone else's fault. It's not all their fault, but it's their responsibility to pick up the pieces and clean up this mess.

What are you going to do when you have an oh crap moment?

>> What is your first response? Is it to blame others, to get angry, to whine? Or do you go, "All right, let's get the budget out. Let's see what we're working with here." And she finally got to that point. Most people never get there.

>> Yeah. >> Or it takes 20 years of >> marriage. Sometimes when you have a moment like that, you freeze from just fear or being stuck or whatever. and

other people they go into attack mode.

She's like, "I got to find this out. I got to work this. I got to get this. Got to b and this is what you said to do. Do when you do this and all she want was one little clarification on the car, but she's already game on, you know, and

>> she found that like little kernel of hope and just hung on to it and it's starting to grow and she's seeing this light at the end of the tunnel. That's the best part." >> Yeah.

Proverbs says, uh, when desire comes, it

is the tree of life. Yeah. Wow. It's

powerful. >> Not much stopping you there. Once you get that desire, it's powerful. It'll carry you. >> What are you going to do when you have an old crap moment? What's your next step? Well, start gathering information,

fix the problem. Gather information, fix the problem. Well, I don't care what the moment, what area of your life the moment is in. Could be money. It could be something else. What are you going to do?

Got to gather information. I got to fix the problem. Because the information I had before brought me to this oh crap moment. I got to stop using that same information. This is the Ramsay show.

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George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host Gordon is in Seattle, Washington. And hi Gordon, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi Dave. Yeah. Um, thank you for taking my call and I appreciate all that you teach. >> Thank you. >> Uh, just wanted Yeah, just wanted to uh

get your advice on some um problems.

Well, not problems, but decisions going to make. So, I'm on step two. um getting

ready to liquidate my aftert tax investment account, clean out my savings besides the uh thousand baby emergency

fund to attack some personal loans. My

question to you is um would it be worth

it to uh take a loan out of my 401k just

to clear out all the personal loans uh since the interest on the 401k loan is

essentially paid to myself. Yeah.

No.

Um, how much debt do you have?

>> Uh, personal loans about 22,000 and then

student loans about 30,000.

>> Okay. And how much are all these after tax investments going to create when you liquidate them?

>> Uh, only about 6,000 and another six or

seven in savings.

>> Okay. >> So, it brings your debt down to 40 >> from from 52. Yeah. So, you got 40,000

in debt. What's your household income?

>> Uh, right around 155 before tax.

>> Good. Okay. All right. The problem with a 401k loan is severalf. One is, yes,

you do pay yourself back the interest, but you unplug that portion of the investment from the mutual funds that would have been earning you 12 this year, maybe even more percent. So, maybe you would have made 15, but you paid yourself five instead. Uh, bad idea.

Number one. Number two, when you leave the company, and you will leave the company, uh, when you die, when you get

a better job, or when they fire you, you will leave the company. Okay? Uh, and if

that loan is still in place at that time, it's becomes due in full. If you

do not pay it off in 60 days, it's considered an early withdrawal with all the taxes and penalties. So that is

leaves you very very vulnerable. It's a really bad loan. Um and so and you've

still got $40,000 to pay off regardless of what we do making 155 which you ought

to do in what, like a year.

>> Yes. If I return >> Yeah. If you do if you get on beans and rice, rice and beans, and you tear into it, it sounds like you've studied our stuff and you're doing, you know, you're cleaning out everything. You're leaving $1,000. you're going to stop adding to the 401k. Yes, I would do that. U but we

never tell people to borrow on a 401k ever. I don't even offer the borrowing option to our team. >> Couldn't do it if you wanted to here, which is good. Stop people from doing >> not available. Just not available just because I'm not going to participate you doing something stupid. It's that simple. So, um the uh but no, I I that's

the problems with it is you you're going to get you you just leave yourself very very vulnerable as opposed to a regular loan, so to speak. I mean, if you went and got just another loan at the bank for 40,000 and paid off and cleaned them up, but you've got one big loan instead at 5%. You know, that would be okay because you don't have all these other problems. You didn't unplug an investment that might have made you 12 or 15 and you didn't leave yourself open to penalties and taxes in the event you leave that particular position.

because other I mean pretend somebody came along offered you double income.

You got to think about not taking that because you got these open handcuffs that you've created.

>> Yeah, that's that's what people do. They go, "Oh, I I was gonna take that better job, but then I had borrowed up my 401 and I was going to get hammered." >> So, yeah, that that's what you don't want to do, Gordon. So, >> this is gone in less than a year. I mean, if you make 155 after taxes, let's call it, you know, 110, you can live off 60 and pay off 50 in a year. And so,

it's gone. >> Yeah. It's a $40,000 and you're probably going to add to your income and you're probably going to find some other stuff to sell. Maybe it's 14 months, maybe it's 15 months, maybe it's 9 months, I don't know, but it's somewhere in that range. It's not a >> fiveyear issue. Yeah. >> And I wouldn't put all of this other stuff at risk for that. And so, no, I've never told anybody to do that.

>> And folks, it's a good idea just aside from Gordon's question, let's just sidebar a second, George.

The thing that we have figured out at Ramsey that a lot of people in the financial world are now acknowledging because we've made such a big footprint in the space. But but most of the people

when I was growing up in the financial world, we thought all this was a math problem. It's all about the math.

>> Well, hey, the interest is higher here.

Why wouldn't I do this with lower interest? >> All I got to do is fix the math and I'm going to be okay. And what I've discovered in 35 years of doing this is it's not a math problem. It's a me problem. It's 80% personal finances, 80%

behavior and 20% head knowledge. Now,

why does that matter? Well, if you fix the math and you don't fix the behavior, you're going to be right back in the soup. That's why debt con solidation

doesn't work. That's why we call it a con because you move all your debt from one place over to another into one big loan. In this case, he's using a 401k to do it. Now, in his case, it doesn't apply because he is actually changing.

He's he has changed what he's doing.

He's cleaning out these savings accounts. He's thinking about this. He's doing a budget. You can hear Gordon's really focused, right? So, this is not this is this particular part of the discussion does not apply to Gordon, okay? Because I think he's beyond that.

>> He's willing to make a lot of people that have called me over the years that want to do a debt consolidation on. I want to move my debt over here. First thing is the out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. The Bible says, and they say, "I paid off my debt." >> Put the debt consolidation. >> No, you didn't. You moved it.

>> You put it in the drunk drawer. >> You didn't pay it off. But what that tells me is is you took the pressure off of yourself and it's now okay because I paid it off. No, you didn't.

You moved it. And you still got the problem in your mirror. This person is

still not handling money. This person's still spending money like they're in Congress. They're not on a written plan.

This person in the mirror is still impulsive. This person in the mirror is still not working with their spouse.

They're still not thinking long term.

They're still doing a bunch of other stupid stuff. And so the debt's going to grow back. And we know from the debt consolidation industry that 88% of you,

that's nine out of 10 that take out a debt consolidation loan, your debt grows

back after you move it. So you end up with twice as much debt because you don't change the behaviors, habits, character issues that caused it in the first place. >> Yeah. And these are these are all shortcuts at the end of the day.

And it feels like you did something when you take a shortcut. But the problem is, like you said, you're going to be right back where you started. When people do these 401k loans or the helock or whatever the move is, they actually end up in the same place they were a year from now. >> Yeah.

>> Because the same person. And you've got to transform if you want to see different results. >> Yeah. And so, you know, the same thing happens with your marriage.

Okay?

have a certain set of behavior problems in their relationship. They get divorced

and go marry a new person with the exact

same set of issues and they didn't fix their own issues. So they dup they they just do it again because they thought that they thought the problem was that person and it wasn't. It was the issues that were not addressed the core things with you. >> And so yeah you the problem is you take you with you >> when you do all this stuff. And me too I'm the same thing. So the the beautiful thing that happened when Sharon and I went broke was we didn't have a choice.

We had to change. We didn't have any food. Electricity was cut off. We had to

change. We had to address the ridiculousness of our decision-making paradigms, our our ridiculous set of assumptions, our stupid intellectualizing of rationalizing ridiculous financial concepts with my intellect that absolutely caused me to lose everything cuz I'm an idiot. You know, I had to face all that. I didn't have a choice.

>> You ran out of shortcuts. >> There was not I was everything was gone.

I just left with this mirror, you know, and I'm stuck with me and I'm like, God,

you you are a problem. And the But the

beautiful thing about something that dramatic and traumatic is you you you come away from it change. You don't have a choice when you guys are just kind of everything's okay and nothing's smacking the crap out of you to get your attention. You don't have to face it.

And so our job here is to keep you from having those extreme experiences and instead letting you choose to face it rather than all your choices are taken away. >> Yeah. Be the preventative medicine.

>> That's how this whole thing works, guys.

That's why this Ramsay stuff works is we have figured out p the guy in your

mirror, the gal in your mirror is the problem. That's the bad news. The good news is they're the solution.

This is the Ramsey Show.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual

amazing relationships. George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

Open phones at triple8255225.

That's8 8255225.

Caleb is with us in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Hi Caleb, how are you?

>> Better than a sinner like myself deserves. Dave, how about yourself?

>> About the same, brother. What's up?

>> Well, uh, my wife and I are 25 years old. We've been married for 3 years now.

owned a home for the last year and we are $581,000

in debt >> including the house.

>> Including the house. >> How much of that's house?

>> 360.

>> Okay. And so you've got $170 in personal

>> uh 220 581 total. uh 360 on the house,

160 in federal student loans, 34 on two

cars, and 27,000 in a personal loan from

our plastic surgery that we did with our credit cards. >> Okay. What do you What do you guys make?

What's your household income?

>> Uh this year we're at 176,000 and salary

before a bonus for me. So, she makes 83.

I make about 93.

>> What are your careers?

She's a physical therapist and I'm a regulatory compliance person in clinical research. >> Gotcha. Okay. You're 25 years old and you got almost a $200,000 household income. >> Yeah. I've been pushing hard to get us Roth and eligible before we turn 30.

That's a goal of mine.

>> Yeah. Don't know that you need to worry about that considering the dad gum mess you've made. But yeah.

>> Yeah. I've definitely made a big one.

>> Yeah. So, how can we help? Well, I have an offer right now to buy my truck out for 4,000 over what I owe on it.

>> Should I apply the uh that four grand to

a couple of the small federal student loans that we have at 0% interest or throw it at the $27,000 personal loan at

13%. >> What are you going to drive after your truck's gone? >> Uh we have a little $3,000 beater car um

in our driveway. Uh we have two cars.

I'm sorry. We have three cars we owe on to. Okay. Okay, >> so you have a third little beater car that I can get around time with. >> Okay, that works. And then your next >> What's he apply to the surplus to, George? >> Well, that would go to your next smallest debt. So, when you look at the balances of everything, if you split everything out, individual cards, individual student loans, what is the next smallest balance?

>> Uh, we have a couple of federal student loans that are worth $1,000.

There's a couple of those. Okay. Okay.

>> Interest rate is not your problem. Lack of systems and processes and efficient

use of your money is your problem.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, we're going to get on a budget. We're going to live on beans and rice.

Rice and beans. You're going to act like you're a college student again and live on nothing. We're not going out to eat.

We're not going on vacation. We're going to take this fabulous income you have and clean up this fabulous mess you've made. >> Are you guys investing right now at all?

>> Uh, well, that's another question that I have. I would like to take advantage of the match that my new company has. Uh for >> No, you're broke. >> Don't take advantage of a match. >> You're broke. >> Okay. >> You're deeply in debt. You need to clean

up this mess.

You can't serve two masters. You can't.

A house divided against itself will fall. When you're trying to invest out of the one hand and pay off debt out of the other hand, neither one are done well. >> Okay? You'll be in debt for 20 years while you invested 3%. Neither are going to get you very far. >> You need to get really, really, really

angry and scared about this debt.

>> Where I am at. >> Yeah. And the two of you looking at it going yelling at it. You're going down,

right? I mean, you got to you got to get that kind of thing going and we're going to slice and dice to nothing. And the

bad news is you got a lot of debt and a big mess. The good news is you're both very bright people and you the both of you have studied and learned processes and systems in your academic life and have applied them in your career life.

So systems that are predict create predictable outcomes are your life. So,

if you will apply the system that we put in place to get you out of debt so that you become very, very wealthy within a decade, you will be able to use this fabulous income you have and clean up this mess in a lightning speed. You'll be amazed at how fast you clean it up.

>> With with that being said, Dave, who can I look to to find a financial mentor?

Because both of our sets of parents are not >> You don't need a mentor. You need a budget.

>> Okay, >> we got the plan. We're the mentors.

resources. You're not dumb. You're just trying to figure You just need a system.

>> Okay. >> Apply the We're going to show you the baby steps. You You're new to all this Ramsey stuff apparently, right?

>> Yeah. I I got the thousand done, but >> that's And then we're going to then we're going to work off the debt snowball, listing our debts, smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything. Stop all investing.

Take lifestyle down to scorched earth and and squeeze every stinking dime out of your life and throw it at that smallest debt until it's gone. When that one's gone, get the next one. When that one's gone, get the next one. And what happens is your behavior gets more and more intense because hope is increased each time you have these traction points.

won't even feel like you're sacrificing, but your friends are going to think you've joined a cult.

>> Understood. >> That's how that's how that's how this works. It's a behavior mechanism. We're managing behavior because you've got the mathematics in front of you. You can see I can see $200,000 income including bonuses. A >> and I can see $200,000 in debt with the car gone. >> Okay. Not counting the house. How fast am I going to do that? Well, I'm going to do that in about 14 to 18 months.

>> And we're not even 27 yet.

>> Debtree. And if you're debtree making 200, you know how much you can invest then, dude? Dad gum.

>> A lot. >> I mean, debtree. the house, you know? I mean, the math on that, you're going to be so stinking wealthy, it's unbelievable.

But I got to get the impediment out of the way. I got to get the blockage cleared before we can call get the patient healthy so that he can run the dad gum triathlon. Okay? That's what we're after here.

>> And I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, Caleb, I wrote it with you in mind, >> the 25year-old who's going, I feel like the system's rigged against me. I make all this money. I don't know where it's going, and I feel like it's everyone else's problem.

Let's hold up the mirror and let's look at Caleb. What can Caleb do with his $200,000 income that he's giving away to lenders every month?" >> There we go. George is going to be your mentor. >> There we go. >> There we go. >> I will do it. And in fact, Caleb, uh, get in touch with our team, George.

>> Yes. Well, I'm going to put Caleb on my YouTube channel and show everyone that it can be done. >> Okay. Follow up with him. Follow.

>> We'll get your email, Caleb, and I'll send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. And if you're willing to let me be your mentor in front of a few hundred thousand folks, we can help a lot of people and show them by doing an actual budget what it's going to take for Caleb to get out of this mess.

>> You're gonna be like the before and after on Biggest Loser.

>> You might lose a George Camel in the process. That's not much.

>> Really? I mean, that's just like that's like not eating donuts for three.

>> Impressive. Dave could lose that tomorrow. >> Hey, >> you could. That's all I'm saying. He's got the discipline. >> Golly.

Wow. All right, hang on, Caleb. I think George is your mentor. I'm not sure.

>> He's not so sure. But yeah, >> I'm just wondering what I've signed you up for here, buddy. But >> well, the Caleb's out there. They fell for all the money traps. They went down the path everyone told them to go down.

Take out all the student loans you can get. Get a nice car payment. You work too hard. You deserve it. Get a big mortgage. I mean, he's the poster child for what's happened with the American dream. It's turned into the American nightmare. It's land of the free home of the broke out there. >> And then what do I do? Who do I turn to?

Neither one of my parents knew anything about it. My best my my high school counselor told me to go $160,000 in debt. >> My friends are all broke. They don't know. >> There we go. >> We'll show you the way, man. Hang on the line. We'll help you out. >> George, the youngest mentor. That's your >> I like that. The youngest mentor. That's your new book. This is the Ramsey Show.

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George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us.

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help you with your next real estate transaction. Kim is with us. Kim is in

Cincinnati. Whoops. Whoops. Oops. Oops.

Oops. What am I doing? Where is she?

There's Kim. Kim is in Cincinnati. Hi, Kim. How are you?

>> Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. Um Dave, this one's mainly for you. Um you have adult children. My husband and I are um it's about time where we kind of need to update our will, potentially change some things to payable on death, etc. Um we have two

young adult grown children, and

one party thinks that just leave everything to the children, they'll be fine. they'll know how to handle it.

They'll make good decisions. One is a little concerned that that might be a little too much, number one. And number two, um even though they're living, you

know, pretty frugal lives, if they're not doing some of the basic steps to

that we took to get us where we are, um

I I just don't know if that would be in their best interest. So, kind of wanted to And then you you had a call a couple months ago. It was either with Ken or John where it was about um you know parents trying to control adult children. That is not the case. I actually want to set them up for the best case scenario and have this be a blessing to them. So wanted to know your thoughts.

>> More money in anyone's life causes them to be more

of what they are good and bad.

disorganized person becomes chaotic and completely disorganized.

A generous person becomes generous.

A and it's very visible. A uh an angry

person becomes more angry. A depressed

person becomes more depressed.

A kind person and gentle person becomes

kinder and more gentle.

A uh and so on and so on. didn't I just didn't Yes, thank you. But I just didn't know if plopping a couple million into a 30-year-old's hands. >> There's nothing wrong with that if they have the character to carry it is what I'm saying. But if they're exhibiting

problems, if they're um you know, they're prone to

overspending and you plop a couple million in their hand, they're going to overspend.

>> Sure. Yeah. Not so much that, but just for example, like they're not even putting they're putting very very low percent into retirement for themselves.

>> Why? >> So, because that's what they're choosing to do. I don't And they've seen us and they

saw how we had nothing for several several years and how finally our behavior has finally paid off. I mean,

it's we never thought we would get to where we were, but by following the steps and working >> whatever it is that they're doing right, they will do more of it. Whatever it is that they're doing wrong, they will do more of it when you leave them money.

And so, if they're doing more wrong than

right, you are not blessing them by

leaving them a couple million dollars because you're going to cause them to magnify the bad behavior.

If it's minor bad behavior, if your husband thinks that, oh, leaving them a couple million dollars, they'll suddenly become smart and they were dumb. No, they won't. They'll become dumber.

>> No, that isn't the case. They're very They have good heads on their shoulders. >> How old are they right now? 30. 30.

>> 29 and 30. >> And you guys are >> I think it mid-50s.

>> Okay. And you're you're not going to die tomorrow, right?

>> No, but if we were both die, you know, we need to change some things. so that it doesn't all go through a will and and all that. We want to have some payable on death accounts. Um we've explained to them, you know, that the Roth doesn't they can keep that and that can be transferable on death versus a traditional how they would have to pull that out. I believe it's within 10 years and be taxed on that. Things like that.

They know the basics. They don't know our total net worth. Um, but like I

said, just the example I think and and I

don't I I don't expect everybody to do the side hustles and to work as many hours as I do, but when like the basic thing of not even putting 10 or 15% back for yourself, those little things because I have learned and I have exhibited how that can change your life.

>> And made you a multi-millionaire.

>> Yes. >> Yeah.

Okay. So, is that the that you brought that up twice? Is that the only thing they're doing that you think is irresponsible?

>> Yeah, pretty much. Because um I don't like even their emergency funds, they don't even have them in a high yield savings account. Just little things like that. And I feel like I've said all I can say without you know >> Oh, you probably Yeah, you probably have. Yeah. >> Right. >> Okay. So, their emergency fund is where?

>> Just in a regular old savings account.

And let me And let me preface too, they both have no debt other than their very modest homes. Okay. >> So, so they they're they're following the basic principles that way. It's just they're missing the chance for compounding and for growth by not just

being a little bit more disciplined. >> Both of them.

>> Yes, sir.

In different ways, but Yes, sir.

>> H >> and I don't want to sound like if we sit down and say, "Okay, we'd like to have a talk." That it sounds like I'm trying to control their everyday life and budget or it be a threat. we're not leaving you

everything if you don't change your ways because I just don't think I will be able to deliver that well in a way that they're going to interpret this is really I mean I know they know they I care and we love them we're very close but I don't want to do anything and you

know so I've obviously want to leave a larger portion to charity than my husband does

>> and also we have it set up where now

that a portion And >> is there any strain between you and their their married partners, >> the in-laws?

>> Well, I don't think so.

>> Okay. >> We've always asked them to to communicate openly with us so that things, you know, don't go unsaid and

then grow and cause hurt.

>> Mhm.

Okay. >> And we have grands and then I don't know how many, you know, how much to specify goes to the grands >> versus the parent. >> Okay. So, are you asking me what I would do?

>> I think just because you have adult children, if you think I'm kind of on the right track, do you feel like that my my >> I think your concerns are valid, but not enough of a concern. I didn't hear anything here that >> gave me such pause that I would not leave the kids the money.

>> Oh, I'm not saying not leave them money.

I'm not question I don't need to I don't

need to leave it to charity.

Um, >> well, we're going to leave part of it to charity anyway, but do whatever you want to do. That's fine. I I don't have any desire to do that. The um uh uh in terms

of in your situation, I I don't hear anything that says that they have invalidated their right to manage millions of dollars. >> It's not optimal what they're doing, but it's not misbehavior. >> Yeah. I mean, they're they're at the 90 95% implementation and the other 5%'s driving you crazy is what I'm hearing. Um because the 5%

matters and it's done you good and I appreciate that. I'm glad for you.

>> And if they live a long life, they could inherit this at 60. So, we just don't know. There's too many variables here.

>> But I I and it and it won't be a million

then. It will be several million if they if it goes that long because of compounding. So, um, you know, I I think

for today, I'm going to set the will up and leave the vast majority of it to the kids. If you want to earmark some for charity, that's fine. But I'm not they haven't invalidated their right to manage money in anything you told me. Um, uh, and and

I don't see any kind of confrontational thing being, uh, I'm with you. I agree with you on that, uh uh Kim, that that it probably

wouldn't be profitable to try to have a talk about all that. I think I simply would just leave it to him. I'm I'm going to side with your husband on this.

So, but you do whatever you want to do. It's your money. It's okay. There's no They're not entitled to it morally, ethically, or legally. It's whatever you choose to do. This is the Ramsey Show.

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George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. age.

Luke and Kate are with us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than we deserve. Welcome to Nashville. Where do you guys live?

>> We're from Asheville, North Carolina.

>> Oh, love Asheville. What a great town.

Very cool. Well, welcome all the way over. And how much debt have you paid off?

>> 176,000. >> All right. How long did that take?

>> 24 months. >> Whoa. And your range of income during that time? We started at 165 and then uh when my husband Luke finished school, we ended at about 275.

>> Cool. Cool. What do you guys do for a living? >> I'm a technical product manager.

>> Mhm. >> And I'm a physicians assistant with a allergy and immunology practice.

>> Ah, a PA school, huh? Okay. Good for you. Great career choices. >> Amazing. >> Very well done. Wonderful income. What kind of debt was the 176 PA school?

>> It was all student loans. I had about 130 for myself and then she had about 45. Wow. Okay. So, uh, you're coming out

of school, you say, "Okay, the income's getting ready to jack. We already make 165, but we're getting ready to jack this and but we got a mess." What made

you decide to do all this stuff 24 months ago and get real serious about it? >> Well, it was kind of the the shocking revelation that, hey, I got to find a job to pay all this back. I mean, I think we I decided to go

to PA school and >> I didn't really know what the numbers were going to look like at the end.

>> And so when we got to the end, it was like, holy cow. >> And, you know, the the amount put a lot

of weight on our shoulders and it was hard to, >> you know, kind of do the things that we wanted to do without feeling guilty.

>> Yeah. >> So, we wanted to get out of that situation. >> Okay. Very cool. Is there anything in particular happened 24 months ago that said game on? We uh we're about to have our first daughter. So, all right.

>> Bringing a kid into the world, you uh want to kind of go in with a fresh slate and give them the best opportunity they can have. >> Yeah. They they uh that's like a tuning fork. It it causes everything to get into and you go, "Uhoh, wait a minute.

Adult time. Game on." Yeah. Very cool.

And how'd you find us?

>> Uh I actually used to work with someone who um claimed her and her husband's success was because of Dave Ramsey. And I was like, "Who's this Dave Ramsey person?" So, um, I went home and bought your book, read it in 24 hours, and then went to my husband and said, "You have to read this book. It's it's makes so much sense." And, um, we should think about kind of getting on the debtfree journey. >> Wow.

And and so you read both of you read total money makeover. So when she comes with you a book with and you just finished school, Luke, and she's handing you a book. I mean, what do you say?

>> Well, I So, we didn't get the book when I finished school. We were kind of listeners, but you know, maybe Dave Light um for entertainment value.

>> Yeah. Yeah. We really enjoyed the show, but we decided to take it serious when when uh we got out of school completely.

>> When the baby when the baby's on the way, she reads a book, hands it to you, you're like, "Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am." >> Yep. >> Wow. >> Very cool. >> Good for y'all. >> How old is the baby now?

>> Uh she's a little under two and we're expecting our second in the next month.

So exciting.

>> Yes. Thank you. >> Fun. Fun. Fun. Good for y'all.

>> What a cool journey. >> Yeah. Very good. >> Most people it takes we found the average is 20 years to pay off their student loans and you guys just buckled down.

You have this great income and you said we're going to knock it out in two. Was that a specific goal or did you have a longer time horizon? You beat it. I I think we knew our income was extraordinary for the location that we lived in and just kind of our professions and we wanted to take advantage of the opportunities that we were given and and get it done as quickly as possible so we could invest for the future.

>> Yeah, we were actually able to do it a little bit quicker than we expected. Um Kate was laid off from a tech company at one point and she was provided a generous severance package and rather than using that to do other things, we just um put all that towards her debt and she had a job within a a week or two after the >> Wow. >> Yeah. Seance package turns into a signing bonus for the next job.

Yeah, >> that was very helpful.

Game on. Yeah. >> Took a lot instead of vacations and upgrading the car. He went we got to pay off these student loans. >> Yep. M >> good for y'all. How's it feel?

>> So good. >> Amazing. >> Weight lifted off our shoulders. >> Was it worth it? >> Totally. >> All right. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is >> uh perseverance and determination. And it's not just about the journey or it's not just about the destination, it's about the journey, how you get there. Um and your character changes as a part of it and lasts a little bit longer than just uh paying off the debt. So, it's really rewarding.

There's a piece of this where you overcame $176,000 in debt in two years. And so now it's like what can't we overcome in life, not even finances. And there's something about the debtfree journey that's inspiring and it usually begets more transformation. And uh you guys are a perfect example of that.

>> Yeah, we definitely feel that way. We try to tell all of our friends and family uh to listen to the show and also Smart Money Happy Hour for my friends who uh aren't as big of fans of just like listening to straight financial content. >> Thank you. There we go. Something for everyone. >> George Christopher. No, you're not straight financial content. >> We're a gateway drug that we're a gateway drug to the Ramsey Show.

>> That's right. That's right. >> That's so fun. Well, thank you guys for being here and telling me >> People have said there were drugs involved and I always wondered >> sometimes a mocktail.

Oh, way to go you guys. We're so proud of you. Excellent. I mean, what an incredible situation. How old are you two? >> 33 and my wife turned 30 today. So, >> oh, happy birthday. All right. Thank

you. >> That's very cool. >> Dave's going to sing to you on air. >> Not a fan. Not a chance. They'll do talk radio for a reason, but they Yeah, this is great. I mean, what an incredible you

this incredible income and no payments.

You're going to be able to do anything you want to do from this point, man.

Absolutely awesome. Very, very well done. What's the next thing you guys are going to do? What's the fun thing? The expensive thing? >> Well, it's stork mode till we um till we have the baby and then uh I think we're

just going to continue to invest money appropriately and uh that way we're

ready for whatever comes next. >> Yeah, >> you'll be ready. >> Yeah, definitely. Well done. We've got the live and give box for you that includes the Baby Steps Millionaires book. You'll be there in a minute if you're not already there. Total money makeover book that started the whole thing for you guys. and a baby step and a financial peace university membership.

You can use those or you can give them away. You can do whatever you want. They're our gift to you to say thanks for coming all the way over from Asheville, North Carolina to do your debtfree scream. You two are inspiring.

Very well done, heroes. Excellent job.

You took control of your life. You could have done a lot of stupid butt things with this. Instead, you really dialed in, hammered it home, and changed the changed your family tree for these two kiddos. Very, very well done. Good stuff. Good stuff. All right, it's Luke and Kate. Asheville, North Carolina.

$176,000 paid off in 24 months, making 165 to

275. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> Man, oh man. Oh, man. That's excellent.

Very good stuff. Those are two great

career fields, too. The opposite of what we were talking about earlier of I'm going to be broke and live my passion.

Both of them have I mean PA is a great track in the medical world. That's a great track to get on and uh the physicians assistant process and uh >> and product manager and the technical space. I mean, it's just you can see >> definitely ROI. >> Proof's in the pudding here. They make 275 and no payments in the world at 30

and 34. It's just mindboggling how much more you can give, how much more you can invest after 24 months of sacrifice.

>> You know, I haven't added it up, but if you invested $100,000 a year, how fast would you be a millionaire?

>> Probably six and a half roughly. Yeah, >> I'm guessing. >> Um I mean 10 years would be a million dollars if you had no compounding interest benefit. So uh >> you stuck it in a mattress. If you put it put it in a fruit jar, you'd have that. But that's how fast the I mean, these guys are going to they're going to be millionaires when they're 37 or less,

something like that. If they and that's if they live on 175,000 a year.

>> That'll do. >> You know, I mean, really, no payments.

See the power of this. It's that puts you in an incredible incredible situation. So, beautifully done, guys.

That was fabulously done. Very good.

That's inspiring. This is what happens.

So, you you know, it's funny. You can live your life that way and you got to admit that's not normal.

That's weird. They're weird people in such a great way.

>> Or you can go be normal. But who the flip wants to be normal? Oh my god, that's horrible.

>> Nobody wants to be normal. You shouldn't ever want to be normal. >> One out of three people making six figures paycheck to paycheck. >> Normal. >> We get those calls. Sucks. Make 200 grand. We're broke. >> Normals. Awful. This is the Ramsey show.

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scripture of the day, 1 Peter 4:10. Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms. Steve Martin said, "Thankfully, perseverance is a great substitute for talent." There we go. Emily is with us

in Tucson. Hi, Emily. Welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I I am blessed to be here. Thank you.

>> Good to have you. How can we help?

>> Um, so a very long story short, um, I

have been unemployed now for over a month. Um, I have been applying like crazy for jobs around my area. Um, nobody's calling me back. I've had a few interviews and they decided to go with other people for positions, which is great for them. Like, I'm I'm blessed for them. Um, the problem is is that I

am now behind on my car payment and credit card payments, and I feel like my hope is gone. Um, I'm I'm just I'm

struggling to to hold on to the hope that God will will will get me through this.

>> Scary. I'm sorry.

>> Thank you. >> Okay. Um, the first thing we need to do is uh you've got to get the wolf away from the door. And uh by that I mean the

the immediate needs need to be covered.

Okay? You can do that with Door Dash.

You can do that by applying at Walmart or Target and you'll get hired today and go down there and make $20 an hour and start working your tail end off and you can make enough to pay for food, lights,

and water and your car payment. If your credit cards get behind, it's not the end of the world. But I want you to take care of, you know, a place to live,

water, and electric and food and

transportation.

Okay? and you can make that much money at a not great job, but you just go get it real quick. Okay, we're not doing that for long. It's not your permanent assignment, but it's to get this immediate pressure off. Okay.

>> Okay. >> So, and you can get those jobs by the end of the day.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Go go go go go to five pizza places, Target, Costco, Walmart,

whatever, and tell them you can start work tomorrow. And they're paying 20 bucks an hour right now, all of them.

And they'll they'll start you almost immediately. Okay?

>> So, wash your face, put your makeup on, brush your teeth, smile, go down there, and be your best Emily, and land you a whole bunch of stuff. By the end of tomorrow, I want you to have three jobs.

>> Okay? And that'll help because you can

get a th000 bucks a week coming in doing

that stuff. Now, that's not your permanent solution, but that gets this terrifying this terror off your doorstep cuz this is terrifying.

>> It is. You know, a lot of my friends have, you know, husbands and family that they can rely on and it's just me. I

don't I don't >> Well, you're enough. You're enough. You can do it.

>> You're enough. If you're sharp enough, you can do it. I trust you. I think you can. Okay? And and again, so that's the

first step. Now, if you've got $1,000 a month coming in, I mean, $1,000 a week coming in and you are working 40 hours at miscellaneous jobs that you don't want to do for the rest of your life.

Now, we got to start talking about a career job. Now, the job that you lost, what were you making?

>> Um, I was making 20 an hour. I'm sorry.

Sorry, I'm not great at math, so I'm not sure how much that was in a year.

>> What were you doing? >> About 40 grand.

>> About 40 grand. Um, I was a front desk receptionist. Um, >> and why did you lose the job?

>> Uh, the the job was dissolved.

>> Okay. Okay. And you're how old?

>> I will be 30 in November.

>> Okay. And um, do you have a degree?

>> Unfortunately, I do not.

>> That's okay. So, for 10 years of your life, you've been a front p a front desk receptionist.

>> No, I I've um the first six years of me

working in the just working in the field, I've worked in daycare. I've been a call center supervisor. Um and I've also worked property management. So, I've kind of been all over the place.

>> Okay. So, what I want you to do also,

first thing is get some money coming in to get rid of this terror.

You got that part, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Then I want you to start thinking about what 40-year-old Emily is going to be doing that pays $80,000 a year

or more. What is it you're going to be doing that gives you a great

life that you love doing? Now, I'm going

to send you some tools of Ken Coleman's to help you do that. The Find the Work You're Wired to Do book has in it

the Get Clear assessment that will help

you get clear on your gifts, talents, passions, and what to aim those at in a

career. Does that make sense?

>> Yes, sir. >> This is my gift to you. It cost you nothing. Okay?

>> You take the assessment and then you sit with that. Sit with some friends. sit with a a parent if you have functional parents and say, "This is what this report's telling me. Does that line up with what you know about me?" Then I want you to start laying out a strategy that says, "I want to be X. I want a new

dream. I'm going to be one of those things." And if that means you've got to go take a class or get a certificate or

whatever to go be one of those things, I don't care. Go take a class while you're working these other things. And then I'm also going to send you Ken's book,

The Proximity Principle, because you've just been running around applying it places trying to get a J O.

You weren't really trying to go do something big with your life. You were just trying to get some money coming in so you weren't hungry, >> right? >> And you weren't you you weren't u thinking about where you just ran in there, heard they were hiring, and ran in there and filled out an application.

you and 15,000 other people filled out the same application. And the proximity principle teaches you how to go get a job that you love in a career field that

is directed by you and taking you to a place that's going to be different. So, you're going to be a very fulfilled, wealthy 40-year-old if you do what I'm teaching you to do.

>> Thank you so much. I just want to be a blessing to others and I'm just I don't want to keep droning. I want to be able to be a blessing someday to somebody.

>> Well, that's the interesting thing about the marketplace is when you do a really

good job helping people, they give you

certificates of appreciation with president's faces on them.

When you are a blessing to people in the capitalistic system that we have, you make money. And there is nothing wrong with that. It's a great trade that we have out here. So, it turns out that if I sell somebody a book for $26 or

whatever we sell these books for these days, then it helps them get out of thousands of dollars in debt and makes them into a millionaire. They were blessed and I got 26 bucks. Do that a

couple million times, it'll work out for you. You know, I help a couple million people, I got several million dollars as a result. It worked out. And they all got help, too. See, isn't it a wonderful trade? You get to be a blessing and the

natural result is you get blessed. So, you're going to be fine. You're going to be fine. It doesn't have to be that you somehow diminish in order for you to be be of

good be doing good.

>> Yeah. And one other thing, Emily, if the if the car is worth a whole bunch, let's say it's, you know, you got a $10,000 loan, but the car is worth 20, it'd be wise to just sell that thing, get out from under the payment, and go buy you a cheaper car cuz you need some breathing room right now.

>> Yeah. If you've got some room in it.

Yeah. Depending on the situation. I >> You're underwater, it's not going to make sense. But >> yeah, that that's exactly right. So, >> man, I want to just get you some go get some income coming in right now from any old body. It doesn't matter. But a a

quote 40-hour a week day job making the same thing you make at Target, you know, that's not there's no there's no future in that. So, let's go figure out what we're going to be and go that direction.

You hang on. Christian will pick up.

We'll get you uh get you those books out and we'll start helping you. And if you need some more help, you call us back. We're here to help you. You're going to be fine. You got the right spirit, the right heart. Um, but don't just throw your application in a pile of jobs that nobody wants, but you'll take anyway cuz you're scared.

That's not your best life. It's not your

best destiny. You're worth more than that.

Thanks for calling in, Emily. You holler if you need some help. We're here for you. We think you're awesome. You're going to be okay. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 14. Big Paychecks Won’t Fix Dumb Financial Decisions | October 29, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOBsOCfcyUE) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:01:08 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey personality George Kamel joined by best-selling author Jade Warshaw.

We're taking your calls at 888 825 5225.

Peter is in Philadelphia to kick us off.

What's going on, Peter?

Uh hi. How are you? Just um stressed about bills and thinking about bankruptcy. Uh-oh. Oh, man. How much debt do you have?

Uh a little over 25,000.

What kind of debt is that? >> to 30. Um car, personal loan, hospital

bills, um gas bill.

And what's left on the car?

The car's 10. The personal loan is 11.

And that's that's just, you know, like personal loan just cuz I'm try I'm trying to get myself out of a jam, so I go back into it.

>> Mhm. You're in a cycle. What do you make? Right. Uh 126

um base salary. Dude, >> think last year I I pulled in about 180 for overtime. America just lost all empathy here. You make $130,000

and you're calling in trying to file bankruptcy over 20? Yeah, what else is going on?

What else is eating your lunch cuz it's not it's not $25,000 of debt.

You could pay off this debt in less than 6 months. >> I mean, I I do have other things that I mean, I take care of my kids. >> Okay, tell us about that because right now we're we're trying to understand where is the problem.

You Well, so I don't have a court order on the kids. I just, you know, whatever they need and and whatever their mom needed, I just take care of. >> That's true, but again, if you were if you were >> going to lie. Misspending. Okay, that's what it is because even if you were married with the kids in the house taking care of them, 100 you know, $125,000 income would still be a great income.

So, it's not the kids. It sounds like you're overspending in other areas. Do you have any kind of budget that you're on? No, not really.

>> Okay, there's there's the problem. So, I guarantee you today if you were to just do a an old-school budget on a piece of paper, if you just said, "All right, here's the money I take home, my my my net amount when I when I take home my check, and now I write down what I'm spending money on, and I'm just going to go back through my bank statement." I think you would see the problem. Are you dating anybody? No.

Is it food? Are you doing a lot of DoorDash? >> looked at your bank statement, what would I see as the number one thing that you're overspending on?

Uh I don't know. Maybe fast food. >> Mhm. Um

Uh go Yeah, I guess going out fast food.

Uh-huh. You go out with your buddies, you guys go have some drinks, anything like that?

>> time for that. I work too much for work time. >> Okay, so here's what George and I are saying. If you make 100 and I mean, we could talk about taxes and nickeling diming, but essentially, if you made $100,000 a year, 126, you could live on

100 and pay this debt off, right? At the basic level in less than a year. Can you live on $100,000 a year?

Yeah, I think so. >> I think so, too. You're a single guy. I mean, yes, you've got your kids to take care of. How many? Two?

Three. Three. Okay. How old are they?

16, 20, and 9. Okay.

And the 20-year-old, is she in college?

Mhm. Yeah. What do you put towards that every month?

Uh about 600.

Okay. >> And what are you taking home? Like what ends up in your paycheck? Is it like $8,000?

Oh, that's right. I have I also have a pension loan out. A pension loan?

>> Tell us about that. Yeah. Uh that I

didn't even think I totally forgot about that cuz that comes out of my check automatically. So, that I think I have about probably about 24,000 left to pay

on that. Okay, how much comes out of your check?

>> 463 a month um every 2 weeks. What caused you to take that pension loan?

Oh, that's a long story.

Okay. Uh what about credit cards? Are you using those?

No. Oh. Oh, glad you said that. So, there's a I got about 6,000 on a Okay.

>> uh Capital One. Okay, now it's now it's starting to come to view.

We went from 25 up to 50, now we're at 56. Anything else you want to tell us about? Like hand on the Bible, what else do you have going on? >> Student loans? >> That's I forgot about the Capital One card. Did you forget about student loans? >> ago. No, I don't have any student loans. Thank god. >> Is any of this in collections?

Uh the Capital One card. Okay. And the gas bill. All right. Are you ready to s- like take control of this as a grown man with three about grown kids and you're like, "Dude, I'm ready to clean up my life." Cuz if you're ready, we can help you. If not, call us back when you are.

>> got it. Yeah, I am cuz Okay. I'm just too stressed out. >> Mhm.

>> Starting tonight, you're going to make this budget and it's going to give you so much peace just to have the numbers laid out in front of you. Even if it's scary, even to go, "Ugh, I don't like what I see." At least it's not the boogeyman and all the unknowns. I'd rather you be scared of the facts than the unknowns. So, we're going to gift you EveryDollar to actually make the budget.

It's a digital app you can download. And you're going to list out your income for the month, and if that's 7,500, you list that in the income section. Below that, you're going to list every expense you can think of including your minimum debt payments. And what you're going to see very quickly is if you're going over budget every month or under budget, and you should have wiggle room to use that money to throw at the debt.

guide when you do this because I kind of feel like you have something that's living in your head of what you spend versus what's actual reality. So, if you don't use that bank statement, you're going to say that you spend $400 on food, right? When the reality is you might spend like $1,100 on on food, right? So, go back, get the bank statement for September and use that as a guide when you make this budget going into November, okay?

That's going to let you see, okay. Now now you're going to see, "Oh, yeah, this pension thing came out." Now you're going to see, "Oh, yeah, this is what I spend on gas." And it's going to take you, you know, you could do a If I felt like you had an accurate picture, you could probably do it in 30 minutes, but I really think you need to look at these numbers. It's going to take you an hour or so to get this done, but it's going to give you, like George said, so so much peace.

No, nothing serious. It's pennies on Robinhood. Oh, boy. Okay, let's delete Robinhood for now. Can you promise me that? >> Yeah. Okay, we're not really building any wealth over here. We're just wasting time. And what do you get every year when you do your taxes? Uh what kind of refund do you get?

I don't. Last year was the first time I owed. Okay. Okay, good. Yeah, the budget, I mean, it's the blood work. It it tells all. It tells everything that's wrong with you.

Okay. So, once you do this budget, you're going to figure out your main expenses. Here's like food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance, minimum debt payments. Anything beyond that, you're going to get real judicious and cut out. And that means eating out, that's got to go cuz we got we got to clean this mess up. And we don't want it to take 10 years. Let's do this in 18 months. >> Mhm. Does that sound better?

Yeah. Well, think about this. You got 56,000 in debt, let's say, just using ballpark numbers, and you throw 2,500 a

month at this, you're done in 22 months, less than 2 years.

That sounds great, right?

Yeah. And we avoid bankruptcy, which is going to implode our life for the next 7 years and hurt your ability to get jobs, to rent apartments. It's going to hurt you in a huge way to file bankruptcy, especially over a over debts these small. Yeah.

And so, I don't think bankruptcy is your answer. I think you are the answer, Peter. So, hang on the line. We're going to gift you EveryDollar.

Make that budget tonight. It's going to give you a whole lot of clarity. In the new EveryDollar, in that onboarding, that first 15 minutes, it's going to show you how much margin you will create if you decide to commit. And so, it's like we're going to be in your pocket guiding you along the way on this journey, and we are rooting for you, man.

We think you're worth it. We think those kids are worth it, and you're very capable. If someone's willing to pay you $130,000 a year, you are smart enough to make a budget and get out of this debt once and for all. But first, you got to stop going into it.

It's not the answer, man. You are.

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Tiffany is up next in New York City.

What's going on, Tiffany?

Hi George and Dave. Can you hear me well? Yes. What's going on? Um okay, perfect. So my mother-in-law, she

is currently 60 years old. She has nothing saved for retirement. Um she's pretty much banking on the idea that um my husband and I would take care of her when she physically unable to uh work anymore. Is she What's her What's her health like now at 60?

Um so she is blind in one eye. So she

used to work at a nail salon, but because uh after losing sight in one eye, she is unable to work there. Um she is currently working as a ironically as a caregiver. Okay. What does she earn?

Do you know? Um I don't know the exact amount, but I do know it covers basically her uh necessities, rent, utilities, food, and

transportation. So has she Is How long

has she been single? How long has

your father-in-law been out of the picture?

So uh father-in-law is still in the picture, but they're separated. They're divorced.

Okay. And how long But how long has that been?

Um I would say over 20 years. >> Okay, so she's had My point is she's had time to adjust to life on her own.

And you're just saying she's She just does the bare minimum. Is that what you're Yeah, so pretty much um she was good up until she couldn't work as a nail technician anymore. Um and then with her current job now, she can only take on so many hours cuz she says physically she can't work full-time. Um so basically um

she's just doing what she can, but I'm just worried because she has She really has nothing saved up for retirement. She did have a um I think she had like 20K saved up. Um but then when she was out of a job um after she lost her job working as a nail tech, she kind of went through all that. So Mhm. She's basically at nothing now. What's your husband say about all this? What's he think?

Um so their relationship Their relationship is a little bit of an interesting one. Um she recently got back into my husband's uh life, I would say um since 2020. Their relationship was a

little bit strained because when his parents did divorce, she left the picture. Um and my husband was I believe

he was a teen when this had happened. So she only recently got back into the picture around the time my husband and I were dating.

Wow. >> Interesting. >> So is he wanting to help her at all in any way or is he just Are you guys wanting to set up a boundary to say, "Hey, we can't support you in any way?"

>> I think he's at a uh situation where of course he doesn't want his mother out on the street, you know, if something God forbid something were to happen, but um he also

would I think we've both kind of agreed that there there would be a lot of resentment towards her if we have to bear all the financial responsibilities.

What's her living situation? Is she a renter? Does she have a house? How does she live? >> So she Yeah, so she is renting um but she's renting with two other roommates.

Great. >> So um So it's like Golden Girls over there or what? Uh pretty much. Sounds awesome. That is awesome. Her rent is um her rent's a thousand dollars. So she splits it three ways. It is New York City, so it's rent's expensive. >> Mhm. So she has a thousand dollars for rent. What's your um financial situation, Tiffany? How are you and your husband doing?

Um I think we're doing pretty well. We do have um our first child that was born May of last year. Um so uh the only

thing is of course with rent by where paying and then there's daycare costs.

Um Unless we want to give up the I guess um

our retirement, I feel like um

I don't know if it's selfish of us for not wanting to give her money on the side for her retirement, but >> that I would have, if I were in your shoes, I'd want to get more facts.

So first off, I'd want to make sure I'm

not assuming that she wants, you know, me to take care of her. I want to know point-blank. And so I'd probably sit down and ask the question. And >> Oh, no. Yeah, so when the situation

happened when she had lost her um job earlier and she had to get surgery um eye surgery um around that time when she was out of a job, she did come to my husband to ask for money. So just a one-time thing or say, "Hey, you're going to be the one taking care of me during retirement. I hope you know." Those are two different things. >> My husband set a boundary.

He said I was only He was going to only give her money for three months. And he had expected her to get back on her feet after, you know, she recovered. Mhm.

and he said that was it. I'm only going to give you money for three months and then you're sort of on your own. But of course he is He's a softy in the sense that if she was, you know, out of money and she may end up on the street, he wouldn't let that happen. >> Sure.

Cuz here's what I'm I'm going to just tell you where my mind is. What you said is different from taking care of me in retirement. Those are two different things. It's one thing to have had surgery, be going through a tough time trying to figure out where you can work cuz you lost your job cuz of your vision.

Right, those There's that and then there's you're taking care of me in retirement, which is going to happen maybe 20 years from now. So I'd want to get clarity on that. I don't think you have clarity there. I think you kind of are making an assumption and I can see why you're jumping to that.

I can see why you're doing that. But I'd want to know that. And then if it does seem like, "Hey, no, this really is the the expectation. I've gotten clarity on that." Then I'd want to know, "Okay, since you're expecting that, then that gives me a right to look into your finances." Right, George?

Like you better be telling me what's your social security going to be? What do you pay? Show me your bills, right? >> If I'm paying your bills, I'm going to be in charge of how much you're paying for those bills and what your spending is.

Yeah. Okay. So it's going to sound like, you know, we love you. We want to make sure that you're taken care of.

Uh we also need to have a plan for you to live independently. And right now we can't financially support you. We got a lot going on. We're living in a high cost of living area.

We have a baby. We're paying for daycare. So here's what we can do. We want to help you help yourself with whatever resources we can to get you into a sustainable place.

But we cannot and will not just support you for the rest of your life and cover all your bills. We can't do that.

>> Yeah, cuz there's still time. There's time here for her to create something for herself. And if you guys play a part in helping her do that, I think that's a wonderful thing because financial literacy and financial illiteracy is a very real thing. So if you can help her understand, "Okay, you're 60.

You've still got 10 years to really make something happen for yourself. Here's how you do it." I think that's a wonderful thing. Um but all that is going to start with you getting clarity on really what the expectation is from her and then you clearly setting expectations on your end and setting those boundaries on your end. Um that's what I would do.

And if it gets to the point where she is truly disabled, then she can get on disability. And eventually maybe she'll get some social security if she decides to take that at 62 or three or whatever. And so we need to show her the options that are at her disposal versus her relying on you and you becoming Bank of Tiffany is going to be a bad plan cuz you're right, it's going to create resentment and it's going to create entitlement on her part to where now she goes, "Well, why even work full-time? I can work part-time or maybe not work at all if they're just going to float my life." So that's the scary slippery slope that we're headed towards.

Yeah, that's true.

>> So that's all That's going to be you and your husband coming together, making a plan, sticking to it spit-shake, saying, "I know you're a softy. You can't give in." When she goes, "Yeah, but everything I've done for you." It's like, "Hey, yes, I'm grateful for what you've done and we can't take care of you for the next 20 years." >> Mhm. I'm just glad that you're talking about it, Tiffany, because the truth is a lot of us experience these We start to see these cracks cracks financially expose themselves in family members or in our aging parents.

And you have the opportunity to jump in there and set those expectations. You have the opportunity to jump in there and get the facts and hopefully try to set them on the right path because a lot can happen in 10 years financially. You can either dig a deeper hole or you can actually get yourself on track and create some form of a nest egg, something that's sustainable. So if you're listening and you're seeing this play out in your life like so many of us are, don't just sit back idly.

Go be about some business and get some information. And if you are that older parent, please don't do this to your kids. Don't be a burden. I want them to like when my parents pass away, I want to grieve how much I love them, not goodness gracious, at least they're off my payroll.

[Music] Mhm. [Applause]

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[Music]

[Music]

Carol is up next in Toronto. What's going on, Carol?

Hi there. Uh thank you so much for taking my call, Jordan Jade. Um I do just want to say to uh really quickly, thank you guys so much for what you do. I found the podcast 2 months ago, and it's given me so much direction in my life, and I just think you guys are changing lives. So, thank you for that. Oh, thank you. Thanks for listening. We're glad it's been helpful for you. Yes, great so far. Lots of work to do, but um so, we had a series of kind of

unfortunate events that took place over the pandemic, and it caused us to take

on quite a bit of bad debt. So, we made improvements on the home uh with plans of investments coming through, and those investments did not come fruition, and essentially went to zero.

So, since then, we've been really treating our um HELOC like a giant credit card uh prior to me finding this this podcast. So, I'm in Canada, so our

mortgage is up for renewal in June. I'm in baby step two, and the amount of the HELOC is so overwhelming that I feel

like I'm not sure whether I should be rolling it into our mortgage in June, or whether we should be continuing for the next 5 or 6 years on paying it down,

keeping in mind that I've, you know, three kids who are looking to go to university in the next 5 to 8 years. So,

>> um yeah. How much is the HELOC?

So, the HELOC is at 400,000. Oh my gosh.

What's your income?

So, our income uh well, okay, before or after tax? We've got some pretty hefty taxes. >> Before taxes.

Oh, before about 500 a year. Oh my gosh,

woman. Yeah, but after >> flow the renovations making half a million dollars?

Yeah, I but after tax, it's only about

200 300 a year is what we take home.

Okay. Okay, well, what's your >> Yeah, like it's significant taxes. >> What do you owe on the house aside from this? Yep, so we have a mortgage for 750,000,

and that's at 3.6%, but the house is valued at 2.5 million.

Okay, what's the What's the percentage on the HELOC? What's the interest? It's 4.5. Okay. And then what other debt do you have outside of the mortgage and HELOC? That's it. Okay.

>> I thought you were going to hit me with a bunch of consumer debt. All right.

No, because it's all rolled into one, and I think I've never heard I've been binging this, and I've never heard how you attack just like one big >> Yeah. No. Generally, here's our parameter with HELOCs. If it's over half your annual income, we say, "Hey, roll it into your baby step six," which is when you pay off the mortgage.

So, that's when you would pay it versus in baby step two with other consumer debt. Since you guys have no consumer debt, do you have an emergency fund? Do you have savings?

Uh we just started that. We well, we have some education savings um for about 50 grand for for the kids right now. Um and then just retirement funds, we have maybe a couple hundred thousand, but um other than that, not really. >> anything in cash?

Like if you had an emergency today, how would you pay for it? Um I already did baby step one, so I have We probably have about 5,000 in cash. Okay. But, your next paycheck is going to be sizable.

You're You're going to make like what, 25 grand on the next check? Uh yeah, like per month uh my husband and I are Yeah, we bring home around 25 grand a month. Okay, how much of that could you throw into a savings account next month, for example?

So, you guys are spending close to 20 grand a month.

Um I'd say our spending kids are in private school. Um our the interest on the HELOC is about 1,800. So, yeah, like I'd say we spend around 12 grand a month on uh yeah.

The private school for all three kids.

Yes. Man.

That's That's a real That's your burn rate is high here. You've got a lot of expenses going on. I'm guessing we're not going to put them in public school to clean up this mess.

Well, they're almost out, so it into um

like to middle school, so that's going to change and get better over the next couple years. I just I didn't want to feel like I was rolling the HELOC into the mortgage and kicking the can down the road, and whether I should, you know, roll some of it in, and then keep some of it and and attack that really fast, I'm not sure. I kind of like them broken up just for I mean, is the HELOC going to have a variable rate here?

>> the same thing. It's currently variable, but again, in June, we sign the next 5-year mortgage, so it would lock in at whatever the interest rate is, which is probably >> God bless the strangeness of Canada.

Every 5 years we reset the mortgage rates. What's going to be the new mortgage rate when you renew in June?

Cuz it's going to It's 3.6 now, what's it going to go to?

Uh probably go down, so between 2.9 and

3.2. Interesting. So, if you Have you done the math? If you If you did that, what percentage of your income would this mortgage be?

So, that would move us from the 25% to about 29 to 30% of house expenses. On

a 30-year, or are you doing a 15-year?

Uh we haven't discussed that yet. My call's tomorrow with the bank.

Okay. My guess is Well, they don't do the 30 and 15. You have like a 5-year.

Oh, that's And it rolls every Yeah, you you still do like a 15-year but every 5 years you revisit it, and you get to redo it. Okay. How often does the rate on the HELOC vary?

It's variable, so it was high for a lot of years, but dropping now. Um it's every month that the interest comes out, but then just depending on what the, you know, Bank of Canada does, the interest rate goes up and down. Okay. If there was a world where you locked this in at 2.9, and it was 25% of your

take-home pay, and it kind of fit those same parameters, it it wouldn't bother me. Um I don't mind it being separate though for the idea of you really getting after it. I'm afraid that if you roll it in, you won't get after it the way you need to, and you'll kick the can down the road. Okay. Okay, so there is maybe a a point

in which some of it we roll in as long as we keep that 25% into the home from our income? Well, the the the rule of thumb here is you don't want your mortgage to be any more than 25% of your take-home pay. So,

after taxes, you don't have to think about, you know, insurance and investing and all that jazz. I'm just talking about after taxes, you don't want it to be more than 25% with all in. With HOA

fees, insurance, all of that. Because once you get above that, it can be it can be too much of your world. So, that's that's kind of what I was looking at. At 4.5 on 400,000, yeah, I I

wouldn't want to see that. I wouldn't want that on a variable rate, let me just say. >> I just feel like I'm less emotionally attached to interest rates. I could give a rip at this point.

I just want to see you guys plow through these debts. And so, personally, I would keep the HELOC separate and make an aggressive goal to pay this off in let's say 3 years. It's 133 grand a year. That's 11 grand a month.

Come hell or high water, we're going to throw 11 grand a month at the HELOC.

Yeah, I think we could. I just needed to know I I just I've heard that uh last week, it was like if it's half more than half this, you roll it in, and I just wasn't sure if there was a difference between the two. >> rolling it in, it's about where you're attacking it. Yeah, it's the timing of it.

And so, for you guys, since you don't have a consumer debt, you're just looking at these two debts going, "What do I do with these?" I would just plow through If you can do more than 11 grand a month, be my guest. I'm just throwing a random goal out there. You and your husband should sit down tonight and go, "We got to clean this up." And to that end, I might delay some of the the kids stuff. Like we got time to catch up on that.

Right now, we've got this thing eating our lunch with these giant mortgages and HELOCs. So, I would work to knock that out, and then knock the mortgage out.

Okay. So, think about that. In 9 years, you've got the kids off to college, right?

Yep. And you have no mortgage, no HELOC.

So, that's the kind of future I want you guys to start envisioning, and then reverse engineer it to go, "Okay, what do we got to do today, this month, to get there?" Awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for the call. It's a good question. Love hearing from our Canadian uh listeners. Just to know that they're Canada has its own problems. You know, people are making crazy decisions all over the world.

>> world. But America goes first. We're like, you know what? We're going to show you the way with the HELOC to do all the renovations and go into all the consumer debt. But the good news is they have an amazing income. >> They do. And that Yeah, >> to like feel bad when you're making half a million even after taxes

Quite the shovel. >> Yeah. >> But you can see you just, you know, make decisions with bigger zeros on the end when it comes to debt. >> Exactly. It's very relative in that way.

Um but yeah, this is Yeah. More money more money more problems. >> Yeah. But here's the thing.

You got to just, you know, baby steps, one thing at a time. >> Mhm. And also, what can we do to decrease our lifestyle and expenses? Cuz even with 25 grand, you can see how quickly it can disappear when you got, you know, the cleaners, the private school, this, that, the other, the HELOC, the mortgage.

It just eats away at even the highest incomes. And so you got to get control, live on less than you make. And if you get a raise, ignore it and just invest the difference, give more, save more. That's the key to becoming truly wealthy.

And I think Carol and her husband will get there in no time.

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[Music]

Chase is in Knoxville up next. Chase, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hey, how's it going? Great. How are you?

How can we help today? >> Uh very good. I have much better than I deserve. Uh first off, but thanks to y'all's y'all's program. Um so I got a two-parter. First part is I've been in Gazelle Intense for a while. Um we're actually debt-free, home, cars, everything. Wow. Um Way to go. Yeah, so it's awesome. I'm a little I'm a little tired at this point cuz I've been working two to three jobs and just kind of figuring out when to put pause on, you know, extra income and just kind of relax for a little while.

Well, yesterday Well, yeah, it's just I guess the scary part because we're single income right now. Uh so part of me is just like keep going and >> step seven. You have no mortgage payment, right?

Correct. But I mean, we do want to move uh from where we're uh at now. That's I guess that's the quick answer of now is the time to stop that. How long did it take you to accomplish this? How long have you been in this grind?

Uh it was kind of on and off for 2 years because of the the child and um

you know, just some complications around birth and stuff. So that's that's why my mom hasn't went back to work. So >> Okay, that's fine.

>> Yeah, it's it's been uh I guess on me for almost 2 years at this point. So >> Okay. Um So like I said, just kind of want to hit pause on some of those and that leads me into second part.

Um Personally personally misbehaving with the money or like as a part of the company misbehaving with the >> per- personally misbehaving. Just buying vehicles they don't need, buying uh recreational vehicles >> And these are just How'd you find these people? Uh family.

Wait, they they're actual kin to you?

Yes, yes. >> Like cousins, uncles, aunts, who are we talking? Um parents.

Oh. You hired your parents for your small business and they're going out and taking on debt. And you're like, well, that's that wasn't the intended goal. I was I gave them the job So you gave them the job even though they really weren't qualified to help them out financially, quote unquote.

No, they're they're very qualified for the business. Um however, it's just the um They're they're adding small uh personal loans at this point to to try to justify moving payments around, but other than that, it's How many people is this? It's your parents?

No, it's it's just a business that I had started. It became overwhelming for me, like I said, with the the new mortgage.

>> No, no. I'm talking about the the part you said about Okay, it's two There's two things we're talking about. You hired your parents to work in the business. You said they're qualified.

That's all good. But over here, you found out that they're spending their money in a way that you don't like.

Correct? That has nothing to do with the business. That's just their personal life. But you're saying, "Hey, I know that's not very wise. I'd like to be able to help them out." Right? >> You feel like you're enabling them.

Well, so how do I go about it of like grace of like I'm saying either I I shut the business down and just walk away from it or just keep it open and kind of guide them a little bit I uh I don't think >> differently. >> I don't think one I mean, I I This is my perspective. I don't think that one has to do with another. You're not enabling them because they're doing a job and they're getting paid for the job, right?

It's not like they're You're not just giving them money because they asked for money.

Correct. So that's okay.

Now you're talking about shutting down your business. What's that about? Because don't tell me that you're shutting down your business because they're your parents don't know how to spend their paycheck. That's a That feels odd. >> it's two-layered. It's it's Now that I guess technically we're at baby step seven. Um and I'm so tired from the last two to

three years here that it's it's kind of a headache and it's kind of uh it's not that much of my income to It's

not like the side business blew up and you're like, "I could replace my full-time job." You're just like, "Uh I'm done with this side It was a fun side hustle while I got out of debt. I'm done with it." >> What What does it bring in?

Uh about 1,100 a month. Oh, okay. So How

are you even paying your parents from that?

Uh it's just it's kind of subcontracted out to them.

So I think >> But it's not like they're making four grand a month from this. They're not like paying the bills. >> No, no, not at all. It It's just >> Is it a side hustle for them, too?

Uh yeah. Okay. Then just shut it down.

Yeah. >> If you were going to like put them on the streets cuz now they're out of a job, then I'd be like, "Hey, let's be a little more cautious about this." But if you have the conversation with them, said, "Hey, I started this cuz I was trying to get out of debt. I'm kind of done with it emotionally, physically.

I'm tired. So you guys are going to need to If you want more side hustle money, you're going to find it elsewhere." Yeah. I'm shutting down the shop. And I also think the whole thing of them, the way they're spending their money, if they're open to maybe you telling them a

little bit about, you know, Ramsey and how you figured out how to manage your money, I think that's fine. But honestly, I kind of feel like right now that's the least of things you need to be worried about. It sounds like you guys have a lot going on at home uh with your wife and this baby and uh

when you called, that seemed to be the thing that was getting your goat. And I think your parents is just kind of this nuisance that you're observing over here. And I think you just need to kind of swap that away for now.

Okay. Cuz the truth is you can't control what they do with their money. >> Right. And unless they invite you into their life to coach them on it, then it's it's a moot point. They're just It's going to just cause resentment.

>> I think that's the part that that gets me is like I d- I do kind of like coach on the side uh just kind of like a freelance, whatever you want to call it.

>> that to them? Say, "Hey, I do coaching on the side. Like I know I'm your son and you're it's it's awkward, but I'd be happy to look at your numbers, you know." It gets very sticky. They don't want you to do it.

>> cut it loose. Yeah. >> Yeah, and that's where that's where I was looking for advice of just like when somebody doesn't want it, do I just need to walk away or just watch the train wreck happen? >> Yeah.

No, walk away cuz for people like when they're when the student's ready, the teacher appears. And they're not ready. So one day they might be and you might be the teacher and one day they might be ready and it's somebody else maybe from their church or a friend of theirs.

Right. All righty. All you can do is live your life and hopefully do it in a way that makes them go, "Man, what's Chase doing over there? I'm interested.

Tell me more." But man, parents is that's one of the hardest ones to tackle. Cuz like they remember changing your diaper yesterday. They're not looking for financial advice from you.

Exactly. >> Uh but way to go, Chase. Baby step seven, that's impressive. You said one of my favorite lines. You said it's a moot point. >> Moot. >> And it always makes me think of Friends when he says it's a moose point a moo point. A cow's opinion.

Uh thank you for that. I needed a win today. You needed that. Uh Brendan is in Houston up next. Brendan, take us home, man. What's going on? How can we help? Hey, how y'all doing today? Better than we deserve.

Um so I had a question for you. I'm in a

position where I'm barely blessed to be making the money I am.

Um I'm 20. Um my base income is right around $100,000 a year pre-tax.

But I'm struggling to decide between

staying at this job or, you know, having the opportunity to go to college for maybe a job that pays a little less, but it gives me more free time.

Free time? What does a 20-year-old need free time for? You got all the free time.

Uh unfortunately, no. Uh um you'd think I would. This job's traveling. Mhm. But do you have kids and a spouse? I'm just saying this is the freest you're going to be. So, uh what do you what are you doing for work making 100,000 at 20?

So, it's a traveling job. Um the simplest way to say it, it's basically large-scale HVAC. So, Okay.

>> from different sites like uh we're contracted with Walmart right now. So, we'll jump from, you know, Walmart chain to Walmart chain and make sure it runs cold for, you know, the food storage and whatnot. >> Got it. Okay. >> of work. It's a lot of hours, but, you know, they compensate me well. Um I have no bills at the moment. Do you like the work? >> Um I like the money. Okay.

>> But so what do you want to go to college for? How clear are you on that?

>> Uh relatively clear. Originally, my plan was going to be for college, but life got in the way. And I didn't feel like taking on a bunch of debt to go to college. >> Mhm.

>> Good. >> was a big problem of me going for either business administration or construction management. Okay. Now you can cash flow it, is that what you're saying?

That you have the money that you could pay for it now? 50/50.

Um he was in the military, so I would get my tuition covered if I went out there. And we we have we're in the talks right now about an arrangement where I'd pay a certain amount for rent. Okay.

>> at all, whatever.

I mean, I don't think you're going to you're not going to regret going to college debt free and doing the thing you really want to do and exploring that. Cuz you know you're a skilled guy in the trades. And so I if I you can do it free, I'd go for construction management if that's the field you want to be in. Business administration, I'd want some real clear answers on what's on the other side of that.

I think construction management has more upside for you if that's the field you want to be in. So, go for it, dude. Just do it all debt free. You're 20, you can take those kinds of risks now.

Just don't go into debt to do it. That's the only parameter here. But explore, explore, follow your heart, my friend.

[Music]

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Kamel, joined by Jade Warshaw this hour. 888-825-5225 is the number to call if you want to join the conversation. Brian is in Topeka, Kansas up next. Brian, how can we help today?

Hey, um so I have about $90,000

tied up and $90,000 in debt tied up in a

truck and a camper since I travel for work. And uh I always want to I'm always like I'm tired of being broke. I'm wanting to get this paid off in the next year.

How how do you get into that mentality of like whenever it comes to payday, I'm just I don't want to do it, but whenever it's time to pay the bill, I'm I want to get rid of this. How do you get get in the mentality of

making it happen? >> this done. Yeah, making it happen. Well,

I mean, I think I I think for you right now it's just logic. I think you're seeing, "Okay, I have debt. Yeah, it makes sense to pay it off." Maybe you heard somebody say a good reason, right? But right now it still feels very external. And I think there's got to be something internally in you that is a real reason why

um and that you're feeling to where that's the motivator for you to actually make this happen and move the needle. Um and a lot of times that's tied to our goals, like what our goals are in life.

So, if your goal is to get married or if

your goal is to buy a house or your goal is to be the first person in your family to retire and it not be a burden, right?

Whatever that thing is, I think that maybe you haven't connected it to that yet. Okay. Cuz I've set goals for I want to get the debt paid off in the next year.

And then But why?

>> Why? Mhm.

Um to be financially free and to so I

can continue on my other financial goals of

buying a buying land, building a house, and then But also >> Whatever. I'm asking deeper questions because money it can't just be for more gain. Like it can't be money for money's sake. I want to get out of debt so I can have more money. Why? So I can buy more things. Why? So I can have more thing, you know, there's got to be like you got to pinpoint it to something. It's, you know, so when you said, "Hey, I want to buy land." Why is land important to you?

If you said, "Hey, I want to build a house." Why is building a house important to you? What does it represent? So, I think getting to that deeper level is really helpful.

Otherwise, it's pretty surface and a lot of times what we find, George, is people call in and they're just looking for the next thing they can do. And it's not really it's not satisfying them in the way that they thought it was. Yeah, you'll get there and go, "Okay, I did it, but now what?" And we want you to have some deeper purpose here. I think you're getting there the way you're talking. Uh what do you make?

I make about $110,000

before or after taxes. After taxes you make 110. Great income. Okay. So, when you say I want to pay this off in 12 months, how were you planning on doing that? So, my checks are about $2,100 to $2,500

depending on overtime and and how my hours are Is that twice a month?

>> No, it's every week. >> Okay, good. I was like, man, this math is not mathing for me. Okay.

>> Yeah, that's that's weekly.

>> Um and just I did the math and right around

1,500 bucks a week.

I get to a point to where I have a I'm

thinking like a $10,000 safety net since

I am traveling for work.

And How much do you have saved now?

Nothing. Okay. So, you're just paycheck to paycheck spending everything you get.

All right. >> they cover your expenses or is that on you? Do they reimburse you?

They So, they pay um incentives to come out here and then

the travel expenses are on me. Okay. What's left on the truck and what's left on the camper?

There's 60 on the truck and 30 on the camper. Okay. Do you need a $60,000

truck to do your job?

I don't. Okay. Cuz it's over half of your your take-home pay. It's a lot of truck for and it sounds like you're a young guy. How old are you?

20. Okay. A 20-year-old does not need a $60,000 truck to do any job. Can we agree on that? Yeah. A A 50-year-old doesn't need a $60,000 truck to do a job. So, if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to see what I can do to lighten my load, literally, and sell this truck and get a new to me truck for 15,000.

>> Okay. So, what is the truck worth if you sold it private party? How much could you get for it?

Probably 55 to 60. I haven't really done

the blue book on it. Cool. There's your There's some homework. And if you are underwater on it by a little bit, you need to come up with that in savings, which you could do within a month.

If you're underwater by five grand, could you save five grand to save your life in the next month? Yeah. Great. So, now you can clear the title.

Now we still need another truck, right? You still need that? Yeah. So, you're going to need to come up with another 10 grand, 15 grand to get a a beater truck is what this is going to amount to in the truck world.

Yeah.

Well, uh it just depends >> The camper's taking you. You're just hauling the truck along with the camper?

No. Uh it's a pull-behind camper. So, I'm hauling the camper. Okay.

>> And I need something reliable enough to get across the country if I need to. If

the next job is in Nevada to pack myself up and Yeah. But they make reliable trucks that are 20 grand instead of 60, right? Yeah.

Yeah. >> So, here's the problem. That $60,000 truck is depreciating like a rock the way you're driving it across the country. Which is even more reason to not drive a super nice truck all the time across the country cuz the more mileage you're putting on it, the more wear and tear, that thing is plummeting in value.

So, that's what scares me is you could be underwater 20 grand and not know it right now. Yeah. So, I would do some homework on that part.

Yeah. I'd rather you eat rice and beans for 6 months instead of a whole year. So, I would be looking at what makes sense to sell and get something cheaper.

And the way your income is, you could save up and and buy something used pretty quickly. And the good news is lots of people are selling used campers out there. Lots of people selling used trucks out there. Yeah, for sure. And so, just know it's a short season of rice and beans for you.

Some people, like Jade, it took, you know, over 7 years for her and her husband to pay off their debt. So, for you to be able to do this in 6 months, you're going to blink. You you won't even be able to drink yet and you're on your 21st birthday by the time you're debt-free.

Yeah. And just yeah, and just know, you know, going back to what I was saying earlier, part of that why is why is it a good idea to do this now? And it's because you're unattached, man. Like you got all the time in the world. You can do what you want with your money. There's no lady in your life that you have to share decisions with. You don't have kids.

Like there's so many reasons to do this now versus later. So, just spend some time with that mentally and let that soak in.

Okay.

I'm proud of you, man.

You're a a very successful 20-year-old with a good head on your shoulders.

Well, you made some mistakes. The good news, you know, anything that's vehicle-related, at least we can sell those. You know, you go into 100,000 in student loan debt, you can't go sell the degree. >> Man, I wish you could.

I would have sold I would have sold mine off. If anyone's interested in a communications degree, I have one available. >> And then it's like Men in Black, they do the thing and you forget everything you learned as well. Trust me, I don't remember anything I learned.

I think that, you know, I'm sorry, but who remembers things that like specific things they learned in college?

something like that where you kind of need to know some things. >> Where the funny bone is located?

Couldn't tell you what happened in small group communication theory. Oh, I don't even know what that is. >> Exactly. There you go. I just Uh as much as I don't like going to debt for vehicles, it's nice when we get a call and I go, "Hey, you could sell the truck." That's a great >> Could sell the horse. Both are assets, technically.

You said it, not me.

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Micah is in South Carolina. Welcome to the show, Micah. What's going on?

Hey, Jordan and Jade. Thanks for taking my call. How are you guys? We're doing well. What's your question today?

So, I'm trying to help my mom and she is in a really tough financial position. I've been following the Baby Steps for about 4 or 5 years.

And I'm doing well going through it, trying to use my experience to help her.

And once we kind of got into the details, I'm kind of at a loss because I don't know how to help her. And so, I need some additional advice.

What kind of help does she need? What's going on?

So, she makes hardly any income. She's on Social Security. She's disabled. And she has uh for her, what's a a ton of credit

card debt. Um and she can barely make minimums.

Um so, long story short,

my dad died in 2013.

Um I grew up on the Baby Steps with him back when it was just radio.

Uh I hated doing it, but I helped dad do the finances. And then when he died, mom

ended up living off of credit cards for the last, you know, 12 years.

Um her and my brother and my sister all bought prop They sold family property.

They bought fam uh new property, paid for it outright.

And then mortgaged houses.

Um I kind of stayed out of it cuz I see what happens with family and money. I hear it all the time on here. Smart, man. >> And I've seen it I've seen her struggle.

Um and I've offered to help. And my sister and her My sister lived with her until she got married. So, the finances are very intertwined.

And I've offered to help and I've offered to help and I've offered to help and it's always been turned down by my mom and my sister. And I said, "Look, you know, the whole powder butt syndrome, there's not really a whole lot I can do until they ask for it." And so, she is a part of these properties?

Uh yes. So, mom mom owns a majority of

the land that's now all new family property. Um the land itself is paid for and she's got a mortgage on the property. How how much land? How many acres?

Uh collectively, I think between my brother and my mom and all of it, it's like 40 acres. Okay. So, how many people

are included in this land? It's your brother, it's your mom, your sister?

Yes. So, my sister just got married. Um

and the plan is for her to move back into the house to help take care of mom.

Uh she just had a baby. And so, all all

of that is a whole complicated They're all just living together in this commune on the land. >> What's what's it worth? >> Yeah, kind of. >> What's all that land and that with the house on it worth? I'm just curious.

Uh I don't I don't know as of right now.

I know they bought it for like nine an acre. And so, it's probably worth a lot more than that. Um Uh yeah, we're wondering is part of this part of it can be sold to clean up mom's debt since she's part owner. It's a lot of acres. Could you sell off 20 of it or however much needed to clean up her debt and give her a nest egg to draw from? I think it is. Um I think if I offered

that as a solution, that's going to be a non-starter. Um What is What is their solution so that mom doesn't just, you know, is mom isn't broke the rest of her life?

>> Right. Well, and that's that's where I'm kind

of as the outsider now, uh I'm trying to help her with what I can, but I know I'm going to get a lot of pushback. And so, I tried to just go, "Hey, let me

help you with your finances that you have now." And it's always been turned down until she called me in tears not being able to make minimums.

And I said, "I will I will gift you money, but I would love for you to let me help." And >> what she said was I've seen Now, she tearfully, you know, kind of depressively accepted. Okay. And then what happened next? >> it Well, so it gave us the opportunity to actually go through the numbers um and see, you know, what her income is, what her what her outgoing is.

And it's a lot worse than I thought.

>> What is her income?

So, she makes 1,800 bucks a month off of

Social Security Disability. Okay.

Nothing else. There's nothing else coming in. No there's nothing else coming in. >> No money saved, no nest egg, nothing anywhere except this land.

Correct. >> And is she paying the mortgage on her own right now?

So, she's paying a portion of it.

Mortgage is 875. She's paying 375 of it

and my sister is paying 500 of it.

Okay. Now, your sister, tell us about her because um she's living in the house

with your mom. She's paying the majority of the mortgage. She's has a stake in this land. What what is your sister say to all this? Do Have you got a Have you sat down with your siblings and said, "Hey, here's the deal with mom.

What are we going to do?" Yes. >> And what How does that go?

So, it it hasn't gone well. Um my sister

has not made very good financial decisions in my opinion.

She's going She's doing her own little, you know, debt consolidation thing right now that is, you know, they're letting it uh default and then she's, you know, paying them to do it. And I advise against it, you know, you know, trying to follow the teachings of of what y'all tell us. Mhm. And so she so she's not

currently living with mom.

Um she was living with her until she got married a year a year and some change ago. But she's just paying the mortgage even she's paying the mortgage even though she's not staying there.

Correct, because the plan is for her to come back and eventually when when mom dies it'll be her house.

So again, it's all very intertwined. Got it. >> Um but so so she's got $1,800 coming in.

>> Do you not think that cuz part of me is thinking, okay, if this plays out like you think it is, which is the track record is they're not the track record is they're not doing things the way you think you should be doing them. And they're not making smart choices. At some point this is going to implode. Do you not feel like when this implodes, that's when the sister's going to really the sister's going to be left holding the bag.

Because she's the one that's going to be living there and she's the one that's going to want the house. And in order for her to keep the house, she's going to have to sell off some of this land. And the creditors are going to come after the estate, which your sister's a part of. Right.

And so there's no way anyone's getting out of this scot-free here. And so for people who have a lot of plans, they are really terrible at planning. >> Mhm.

>> And I don't know how much you >> to stay out of it. >> Do you get any portion of this when this all like when your mom passes?

>> I I declined all of it. Okay, so >> because I know what it'll do and I was like I I I'm okay on my little half acre. Yeah. It's like inheriting a wasp's nest. You're like, no thank you.

You guys can take over that. You might need to step You might need to just step aside. And let them live and let them do what they're going to do cuz you said it you said it again and you said it again.

You might just need to let them lay in the bed that they made.

Well, and and as far as the land and all that goes, I 100% agree.

Um but as far as just her income and debt go, I've told her I was like, you know, there there's got to be a way. And so

like just her finances on her side alone, I I don't know like there's no way I don't really see a way for her to do the baby steps because she can't even meet the minimums. >> Yeah, but she could if she sold off some of this land. She's not asset-less and

she's making the choice. Do you know what I'm saying? >> there was no written agreement here with this land of what would happen, who wants out, how would they get out? Or someone going to buy her share. And I I advised them that they need to have everything on paper, notarized, and none

of that happened. Yeah, I don't know that she can force the sale of this land because she's a minority stake here. She Yeah, she >> So I would at least look into it with a attorney to see what the options are. I would try to influence your mom to say I want out to her to the siblings.

I don't think you can influence the siblings at this point. I think there's already been enough of a wedge drawn there that you're not going to have any make any headway there. So that's the sad truth of it.

They're not going to get paid before food's on the table. >> of what I That's kind of what I told her. And so I was curious, you know, a little additional advice in regards to that, she's barely making four walls in now. Mhm.

>> Yeah. Um and so >> make the mortgage payment, sister's going to pick up the slack, isn't she?

>> That's what's going to happen. >> Correct. That's on her. That's what happens when you, you know, cosign.

>> Mhm. And so that's what I would be doing is make sure mom is healthy, safe, has food, the lights are on, and I wouldn't pay the debts if you can't pay them. And next I would move to the mortgage if she can't pay it cuz someone else is on the hook for that and this is the price you pay. So I'm so sorry you're going through this, Micah. This is messy all around. I just don't see a happy ending here for anybody. The most you can do is just support her through this emotionally.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. The number to call is 888-825-5225.

5225.

Let me see if I can find our question of the day here. It's sponsored by W Y Refi. You didn't take out private student loans hoping to default, but life happens and W Y Refi won't shame you. They'll help you explore a real plan to get back on track. So head to wyrefi.com/ramsey to find out more. That's the letter Y R E F Y.com/ramsey.

Not available in all states. Cool, cool, cool. Today's question comes from Andre in Oklahoma. I didn't sing this time, George. >> Thank you. I'm 21 years old and have roughly $75,000 in cash. My vehicle and

motorcycles were paid with cash as well as everything else. My question is, if I was looking to be a risky investor, where are my best options?

What? That took a wild turn.

>> to get crazy. Did I read that right? I don't even know if this is a real question, but I'll treat it as such.

>> So he wants to invest the 75,000 in some

risky behavior, some risky business? I'm just confused cuz a 21-year-old must have worked their tail off to get 75,000 in cash unless it was inherited. And so he's worked hard to make sure everything was paid in cash, avoid debt, and now he's wanting to take on risk somehow to be a quote risky investor. So my first question is, why?

What is your actual goal? Do you want a million dollars by 25? Well, then what's behind that? You know, I want to get to the root of this cuz I think it's just young people going, well, I got to make a lot of money now.

Interesting.

Uh Well, you asked the wrong people. I don't do risky investing.

>> That would be very dumb. Yeah, I guess if you wanted if if if I was not me and I said I've got, you know, $50,000 I want to go throw at something, I'd probably just like put it all on black on crypto and hope for the best. Otherwise, just go to Vegas. Go sports bet on a parlay or something, but >> Yeah, I I day trade it and see if I could make a make a spread if I wanted to do the riskiest.

Oh, you could buy a Is it enough? No, I was going to say he could buy a Half a Bitcoin? I don't know what the kids are doing these days. >> since those are dropping like rocks.

That is definitely not investment.

A lot of people think cars are an investment, can I just say? When somebody buys a brand new car and they say, yeah, it was a solid investment.

I'm like, you're an idiot. I'm respectfully, that's the dumbest thing you could ever say that a new car is a solid investment. Moving on. >> got a I've got a buddy of mine and he's he bought like a Ford GT and it was like $340,000.

But he's like, well, it paid off cuz now it's worth 400-something thousand dollars. Certain cars.

>> is, you know, has to like keep it pristine in storage, can't drive it, can't enjoy it, can't use it. I'm like, dude, just buy some art if you want to just put something on the wall to enjoy.

So >> For real, for real. If you want to be an investor, I don't think risk should be a

major factor you're looking for. So I would personally just park it in an index fund if you want some flexibility with this money that tracks the S&P 500.

I would max out retirement accounts. I got it. >> And I would invest in yourself. At 21 you're doing this well, maybe start a business. That would probably be the the best quote-unquote risky investment I would make is all cash, start a business based on something you're really passionate about that you know a lot about that you think you'd be good at.

>> I got to believe there was a typo here.

And my guy just forgot one word. I think where he's coming from is because he's so young like he feels like he can invest in something high risk, high reward and let and has the time to make up for it, you know. >> Yeah, okay. >> he Basically, if he lost it all, he'd be like, okay, well, I'm 22 now with less money.

I'll be okay. I'm not saying it's good or bad. I just mean I think that's kind of what he's That's where he's coming from.

>> Is this you asking for a friend, James?

>> I go by Andre in the streets, so. No, James is an old man. He's not looking for risk at this point. He's just looking for some peace and quiet. I love that. Great question, Andre. Uh but when you say risky investor, it just like all of my red flags go up at once.

>> Right. Cuz I I want you to build wealth and keep it. And, you know, I I'm a man of faith. I love this verse from Proverbs 13, wealth gained hastily will dwindle. Whoever gathers little by little will increase it. So that's the principle I live by when it comes to wealth building. I'm trusting, you know, Solomon over some dude on TikTok. I think the Bible has some great wisdom in that. So read Proverbs and then get back to us, Andre. Appreciate the question.

All right, let's get to the phones.

Pastor George has put his the pulpit down. Here we go. >> Also, James is now Andre in my mind from hence forth forever. So good. Aaron is in Denver up next. Aaron, how can we help today?

Hi, I'm next on my call.

Um but we're trying to do a essentially career change for my husband. Okay. And he's

done 20 years. We don't get a a pension, unfortunately, but he's done 20 years.

He's ready to switch careers.

Um but this career search is going to be a huge hit to our finances as we build up back, you know, some more experience in that new career. What's he doing now? >> to find out. So he's in law enforcement right now.

Okay. What's he want to do?

Uh he wants to fly helicopters.

Okay. And what does that process look like?

Uh he's already gone through all the certifications. He's actually teaching and working part-time right now. So he we've already gone through the schooling, you know, all the things he needs for that. What's the financial difference? So what what's he making now as a cop and what would he be making doing helicopters full-time?

Uh so that's the thing is like

So as a cop he's making 140 before taxes. Okay.

Um but flying he'll be essentially having that.

Having that? >> Until he can build up Yeah, having like Do you guys have any debt right now?

Just our house and child support. Okay.

Do you Could you live off of $70,000

today?

Yes.

There was a lot of hesitation there. Did you actually run the budget out?

I did. Um so I looked at, you know, I I followed the budget um to save up cuz we have I have about 4 months saved up

um for kind of where we're at right now to cover at least our, you know, child support and and house and utilities. You know, I have that saved up for 4 months.

When will the 70K go up or is that kind of just what a helicopter pilot makes?

Will it ever go up to 140?

Uh it may. Uh so it depends on your hours, right? Early hours cuz he only has less he has less than 300 hours right now. And to really start making like have a decent job, EMS, um

oil rigs, stuff like that, that's up after 1,000 hours. Up to like 1,200 hours. So he's got a a good way to go before he can start making comparable money to what we're making now. So I'm seeing on my screen here stuff about taking out HELOCs and pulling money out of retirement.

Where does that come into play? Yeah. So we're looking at cuz again like right now he's not really making like he's right now he's making $25 an hour and then if you when he makes, you know, after a little while he makes $30 an hour and then after 500 hours he can make $40 an hour.

And that that depends on how many people want to fly. So it's contract work. Got it. So it's inconsistent. And this is on top of his full-time law enforcement job. This is on the side, nights, weekends. Okay.

Well, we're Yeah, so we're looking at quitting next year so he can focus full-time on flying.

Okay. And building those hours quickly. So that's why we're looking at the money having that extra money or pulling the retirement it'd be my retirement. So he has his retirement and I have mine from when I I quit 2 years ago to be a stay-at-home mom. I would not pull from your retirement to do this.

Okay. I would If if anything if anything how how much have you calculated that you kind of need as a cushion to do this? So So we're looking at the

the 70,000 to cover our debts. Okay.

>> Like our our basics. So you need Um and You need 70,000 saved in order to make this transition the way you feel like you need to.

Yeah, for a year. That'll cover us for the year, yeah. Okay. So how quickly on

140,000 with no debt could you save up

that money? You already have 4 months of emergency fund, which is great.

How how long would it take you to do something like that? Because I feel like that's what's going to inform this. You can't go into debt over this because if you go and Let me tell you, if you pull out your retirement for this and for some reason it goes south or he doesn't make the money as quickly as you want to, you are going to be filled with resentment, he's going to be filled with guilt and shame and regret, and this is not going to be a good deal. >> unplugging all of that growth.

You're basically borrowing at 35% to with all the penalties and fees. The HELOC's going to put your house at risk and add more pressure to all of this. I would not do this. >> Nothing's on fire.

>> wait a year, save up the 70,000, live off 70, and save up the other 70, and then make the move a year from now as he gets more hours on the side. I just wouldn't rush this. It's going to add way too much pressure and stress to your life right now. And you'll know you can live on the 70.

Exactly.

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Have I? The Christmas giveaway.

>> Oh, yes. I've been waiting. And not only is it a Christmas giveaway, it's a Christmas cash giveaway cuz we like to say cash is king around here. Each week someone's going to win 500 bucks and one grand prize winner will win $5,000. And

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And I was one of my jobs was email marketing. Uh-huh.

And tell them that they won? >> Yeah, and we'd do like I'd send the email like here's the winners for the week and all that. And so it was a lot of fun to get to be a part of the behind the scenes. I would hear like my coworker call the person to let them know that they've won. It was like a game show. It was so fun.

Yeah. >> on Put me on that. >> Real people win this thing, guys. We actually mean it. So there you go. Go enter. Jane is in Scranton, Pennsylvania up next. Welcome to the show, Jane. How can we help? Well, thanks for having me on. Sure. I'm calling for some advice on how to handle my 29-year-old son who's moved back home

to follow the Baby Steps Millionaire program. He wants to pay off all of his private student loan debt.

So he's moved back home. We're glad to have him. Um I'm nearing retirement age. My husband's been retired a long time. We're in decent shape financially, no debt at all. Good. >> But expenses are hard, you know, um

the cost of maintaining a home has increased, the cost of utilities, the cost of food, property taxes. So our

budget gets stressed a little bit from time to time, especially, you know, times of the year like this when the heat's on and So um I can't get the the >> to heat the house with him in it?

Well, not necessarily, but the cost of food goes up and, you know, just him keeping the lights on where that part of the house might have normally been dark.

>> Sure. The water the utilities will bump up a bit. He'll be eating your foods.

Your food bill's going to go up. >> Why don't you tell him he needs to contribute a little something something?

I did. So his response was Well, I I

asked him if he would take on one bill.

I said, "Just one bill. You can pick out whatever one you want." So I showed him my We have we have your budget app. So I showed him my EveryDollar budget and I said, "Pick one." And his response was, "Well, let me look at all of your bills so that I can see how you can cut costs so I don't have to do this." Let me tell you something.

>> Wow. That is maniacal.

How about this? You say, "You know what? Forget that plan. You're going to pay us $300 a month if you want to live here." >> Or you can just go live somewhere else.

That sounds good to me.

>> Man. >> But Is he working full-time?

Oh, he has a very good job with He's a government employee with a GS-13

level job. >> gosh.

>> Oh, well over $100,000 a year. And right now he's in the military. He's a high ranking officer and he's making all of his money tax free cuz it's an active duty deployment. And he won't pay one bill.

Well, how much private how much debt does he have? >> to. I'm sorry. How much debt does he have?

He has no debt other than the student loan. Okay, well, let's >> wanted to invest? >> No, no, he has debt. You said he has no debt except for all these Yeah, >> that is that's debt. If it ends with loan, it's debt. So, how much debt?

>> So, I think he's got he had well over a hundred thousand. He's down to about 35,000.

Okay. >> back in to pay off 35 grand making over a hundred. This feels crazy.

This is my son. Well, what was he doing before? You said yes to this. >> Was he renting before on his own or what? He was renting before on his own.

Prior to that, he was he was engaged to

a wonderful woman and he was living with her. They were supposed to get married in a couple of months and she just got So, you she got so frustrated with him being so cheap that she broke off the engagement threw him out. >> Okay, there you have it. And there you have it. So, this is a this is a character trait of he was cheap with the girlfriend. Possibly one of the reasons they were living together was so he could lower his expenses.

Cuz then right after that, he turns around and moves in with you. Do you know what I would do if I were in your shoes? I'd love to know. I would say he can't live here. I'd say I love you, but you can't live here. You don't need to live with me to pay off $35,000 of debt. You've got plenty of income in order to do that and I see this as a pattern. Sir, son, you need to

move out and you need to learn to open up the purse strings.

He is not struggling financially. Now, if this guy had just gone through a really tough time like obvi- like a divorce was on his, you know, had nowhere to go and he was really struggling financially. I'd say, "Hey, let's let's give him a launch like a little a bit of a hammock for six months to get him on his feet." This man doesn't need that.

I agree. And so, have you had that conversation?

Um no, we haven't had any kind of a hard

conversation like that because he has just recently moved in. We're talking just a couple of weeks. >> Okay. What's your husband say?

Um my husband is elderly. He's 25 years

my senior and at his age, he's just glad

to have him back in the house. I see. I see. Yeah, I would I would give a He's already in the house. So, I would just create a timeline and say, "Listen, I know how much you make. I know you can put this much toward the debt. So, if you do it this way, here's the rules.

And if you can pay this off in, I don't know, six months, let's say. Is that possible?" Probably, yes. >> That's 5,800 a month. Could he do that living at home with no expenses?

Absolutely, he can. I See, George is I'm

just throwing napkin math out there and she said absolutely he can cuz she knows how much he makes. >> Yes, but I'm like the boy must go. Yeah, I know I agree. But you've already He's literally made his bed and they're laying they're laying in it and so I would do that if my husband wasn't so thrilled to have him home. Here's what I think's going to happen. >> He can come over every night for dinner.

You know what I'm saying? This is true.

You know, this is we don't I cuz what I what I see happening because he he loves saving money. He wants to save a buck and and and what I see happening is he pays off the debt, then the next goal comes. Well, I want to save up X amount of dollars. >> I have enough for a down payment.

>> Yep, and it's going to the the goal post is going to keep moving and truly That's why I say as soon as you have this debt paid off, you're gone and that's going to be six months from now.

And we're going to have a meeting every month. You're going to show us the debt balance if you're going to be living here. Do you think he'd do that?

He won't. And and I so appreciate this

advice because I know he's listening.

Oh, good. Oh, man.

Let me let me send him a message. Let me send him a message.

Um sir, if you're listening, I think that you need to move out. I think that you need to learn how to handle your expenses. It's okay. It costs money to live. As an adult, it costs money to adult. That's rent. That's a mortgage.

That's paying for your own life and at the very least, if you are going to live in your mama's house, you need to pay for the electricity that you use and the food that you eat at 29 years old. All right, mama. I said it for you. Mom's going to apply for him to be on Extreme Cheapskates.

They're going to follow him around the house with the camera watching him mooch off of you guys and his elderly dad to save a buck while he makes six figures as a high ranking official in the military. And also, thank him for his service. Yes, thank you for your service.

He can't help it. He already lost a great woman over this, Yeah. That's true. You could have had had a really sweet relationship with this woman if it all panned out. >> he moves out, maybe he can get her back.

Now, that would be a love story for the ages.

One never knows.

He's going to go to the 25 cent rings to try to propose. That's probably She saw that writing on the wall and said, "No, thank you." That's not good. >> Goodness gracious. What an interesting conundrum. I'm trying to really put myself in her shoes. I couldn't. Now, here's the thing. This is where I'm a softy. If it was my daughter, I think I'd I'd treat it differently.

>> but here's what got me when she said, "Pick a bill to pay." And he's like, "Lo- Instead of me paying the bill, let me lower your expenses and crunch your budget and make you" Like that that got

me. Yeah.

The other thing that I've seen that can work decently is if you say, "Hey, you're going to pay 500 bucks a month to live here." Mom and dad set that money aside in a savings account and give it back to him when he moves out as a surprise. That's a nice gesture if you don't need the money. But truthfully, they were saying it's already a little bit tight.

Yeah, I yeah. >> they could use the extra money if he's, you know, mooching off the house and paying rank racking up the utility bills. I think that's fair. It's a failure to launch for me. It's a failure to launch. He has the money.

And he has the discipline. He does. He does. >> you're a high ranking official, you don't get there by being lackadaisical.

So, man, that's a tough one, but what a sweet woman. I get it. She's she's just too sweet for her own good and he's too cheap for his own good. [Music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel joined by my good friend Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Joey's up next in Orlando, Florida.

Joey, what's going on?

Hey, how are you? Doing great.

What's your question? >> having me. Um I so about two and a half years ago when we bought a house um and renovated this house kind of knowing it would be a really solid investment.

Um and knew that if we got too tight, something we could sell and and end up making some money on. We bought the house and got into it. What we didn't expect was to kind of fall in love with our neighbors and our community and now we've got uh four kids

and we've kind of built this community around us that uh the kids can kind of roam freely and uh really it's kind of become a dream scenario in that way, but we're living a little tighter than we'd like to. So, the question kind of comes down to should we uh be willing to sacrifice the community

and take the profit from the house and move that into something where we have a little bit more financial peace or do we stick it out and see if we can kind of grow our resources to a point where it makes sense to continue living in this scenario?

Wow, what's your mortgage every month?

Um it ends up being about 53

5,700. Woo. And how much do you bring home after after taxes?

Well, it's it varies because the way my wife or my wife owns some um

commercial real estate and I'm in the uh live production business. So, at

times we we get paid. We kind of do it more quarterly than monthly. Mhm. If you were to take the average over across the year, what would it be monthly?

Monthly ends up being a probably around $12,000 a month. So, yeah, you're you're feeling it.

You're right. You're you're starting to climb up to almost half of your take home pay being eaten up by the mortgage.

Do you guys have any other debt?

Uh no. We have a car payment and one car

payment and that's it. Okay. Has the mortgage always been this large?

Or did you roll >> Uh it has not. No, we actually our old mortgage um Oh, for this house, yes, it has always been this much. And how long have you how long have you been there? You've been managing almost half half of your take home pay going to this for how long? Uh about two and a half years. Okay.

Wow. What's left on the balance of the mortgage?

Uh a lot. Like a million? I'm trying to figure out what causes a $6,000 mortgage payment. It's about 500 and I think our mortgage is about 575. We still somewhere around 570 for you know, cuz Okay.

And what's the house worth?

It's worth about 1.4 currently. Nice.

You got a good amount of equity in there, which is awesome. Is there any opportunity for your incomes to grow sustainably to closer to 20 grand?

Yeah, I just started this job last January. Um and in my first year I I

doubled my salary from the previous year and there's potential for that to grow

Um again in the in the coming years.

So wait a minute. At one point this mortgage was even higher if you just now doubled your salary?

No, we So what we have done is

the community we live in has a lot of garage apartments that allow us to be able to take some of that income.

Uh so we actually rented out our garage apartment for the last 2 years. That brought in around $1,500 a month.

>> Understood. Okay. >> of of that. So On top of the 12 or so that you're bringing in?

Correct.

Okay. Yeah, I think I would feel good about this if we can make sure that both of our incomes are going up and over the next year there's a trajectory to get to that, you know, 20-ish mark cuz this mortgage isn't it's only going to go up at this point because of property taxes and insurance increasing.

Correct. So the only thing you could do to lower the payment long-term is refinance or do like a recast if you have a lump sum payment you make on that principal, you could recast it and then it'll just lower that monthly payment while keeping the same balance and term.

So those are the only two options you have other than selling, downsizing. Are

there cheaper homes in the same neighborhood that would allow you to keep the community? >> the same size, no. We have four kids. So

Yeah. Is there and you have no savings to speak of anywhere?

Um I have some but not much. We we would certainly like to build more margin in those areas. We're kind of at the point where we're How old are >> just now starting to get a little bit into that margin but How old are you?

We're at a point if our air conditioner goes wrong it's bad luck. Um I am 39

years old. 39 and there's nothing in retirement hardly?

No. No retirement to speak of. See that's that >> I was in ministry for 20 years and was kind of barely making it for I'm worried I'm going to tell you my worry and it's probably your worry too.

I'm worried that if you hang on to this too long you're going to miss out on valuable years of investing because it's going to take some time to to get this down because even to George's point if you say you start going on a positive trajectory for the next year even if you get it down to 40% it's still going to be taking away from your ability to do that. You know, we that's really 25% is where you want to be and even at 30 it's kind of like you can do it but I'd love for you to get it a little lower, right?

So I'm a little nervous about that.

I'm a little nervous. I'm not going to lie. I'm at the point where I I know the the financial uh the smartest move financially would be to sell and and take that money and to invest and start uh building that but the uh

the part that's hard is the investment into my children and into my family and so >> very tough. Is there I mean

I I feel you on that cuz I I have young kids and I think about the same thing sometimes. Um Part of that though I will say when you have a great community part of that is you as well because that means that you're the type of person who when you see other people you speak, you remember people's names, you make an effort, right? So part of that's on you and

Yeah, the fallacy is if we moved anywhere else we would never have a great community. And so you kind of have to take that part off the table cuz it's justifying staying in a in a bad situation cuz the overall fear is and you feel this too is the dream home turns into a night nightmare retirement.

Mhm. And you can't accomplish any financial goals but we can just survive in the house Yeah. for the time being.

And your payroll's not going down anytime soon. You got four younger kids.

How old are they? They're I've got from 1 years to 11 years. Yeah, and the 11-year-old before you know it they're going to be looking at college. So these are the things that are knocking on your door in the next 6 years or so.

Um I hate to tell people to sell their house. >> would give it a timeline and I would you and your wife sit down together and start to map out a plan and bust our butts to figure out what we can do career-wise. If we want to keep this lifestyle up here's what it's going to take income-wise and that means taking home 20 grand and the mortgage is now five or six thousand of that. And if you can get to that point in the next year and that might mean hey I got to start my own business here or you're going to have to go do this on the side to try to figure this out and see if it's sustainable.

Cuz making 12 your mortgage should be closer to like 3,000, 4,000 max versus

6,000. And so the these are the hard choices to make but I you're very thoughtful about this and this is a conversation for you and your wife to decide the timeline. We can't do it for you. Nothing's on fire but you can see the fire in the distance. That's the fear here, Joey. We're rooting for you, man.

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All right, let's talk real estate, Jade, shall we? It's it's on a lot of people's minds right now. >> Indeed it is. Indeed it is. Buying or selling a home is a big deal and there's a lot of clickbait headlines out there, conflicting data, fear-mongering and it's hard to know what's really happening in the market. So we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices dipped a bit last month to about 426,000.

A typical season shift as we head into the fall and buyers have more options and negotiating power and sellers face a little more competition. Mortgage rates dipped slightly to 5.5% in September giving some buyers breathing room and since rates are unpredictable do not try to time the market. Just buy when you're financially ready, not when rates drop or when you hope they drop.

Jessica is in New York City up next.

Welcome to the show, Jessica.

Hello. Um 5 years ago my father gave me $60,000 for a down payment on a house

and he wrote a gift letter so that I believe legally I don't have to pay back that 60,000 but verbally he asked me to either pay it back over the years or have it taken out of my inheritance. And every year my father gives a gift to his

children, his four children in cash and

we can either take the cash or have it, you know, given back as part of loan repayments because we all use my dad as a bank in some way or another.

And this year my father very generously wants to give us 10,000 which is a huge amount and he wrote me an email saying I could take the 10,000 in cash but he really wants me to start paying back the loan with interest. It's now 71,000.

I didn't know there was interest. Uh interesting.

I know. So wait.

He gives he gives $10,000 every year but

that part is the gift.

It could be a thousand It's like his Christmas present. >> Got you. But this year he decides each year. This this year it's a big one. It's 10,000 and he's saying he's going to withhold that because you haven't paid back his loan/gift.

Interesting. I I could take the cash if

I want but he encourages me to start repaying the loan. Did you know the loan had interest?

No. Is this written anywhere? This was just a verbal hey you owe >> Verbal. And he expects that to hold up.

Yes. Goodness gracious. This whole thing just feels toxic. Is your dad controlling?

Uh not really. Um he shows

love I would say by giving money. You know, that's his connection to his children. That's But he gives it and then he's going to Is he going to come back around and say hey I gave you 10,000 for Christmas. I I would expect that back at some point. Yeah, why was the 60,000 suddenly a loan when everything else is a gift? Is that him trying to build some sort of responsibility into you? What What's the meaning of that?

I'm not sure. I'm I know he he's done it for all of his other children. They he helps them buy houses but I don't know the details of their financial situations like how much he gave to each of them and and who's paid it back and who hasn't.

Ooh, well I If I were in your shoes I'd be trying to get out of this loan as fast as possible because I don't like the way it feels.

What'd you use the 60 grand on?

A down payment for a house.

Okay. And you're living in that house now. Yes. With Is it just you or do you Are you married? I just got married a few months ago.

Okay, what's your husband saying about this? Does he know?

He He does know. I did talk about it with him and he said don't put it in writing. Don't respond to the email saying that I acknowledge the that there is a loan and just to to wait it out and see what happens with an inheritance whenever that may be. Who knows if it's 5 years, 10 years, 30 years. >> Yeah, but the In the meantime your relationship with your father is destroyed. And apparently interest is accruing. Yeah, I did the math for you.

It's about uh 40 3.4% compound interest.

Did he give you the option for it to be taken out of your inheritance? Did he give you that option?

Not in this recent email. That's just what I remember him saying, you know, 5 years ago. I'd do that. I'd say, "Yeah, Dad, if you want to take it out of my inheritance, that's good." And I'd get that in writing so that it's you're free and clear.

Because that's money that you don't have yet. It's not affecting your life today.

So, in you know, yeah, I'd do that. Can you afford to pay him back the 60 grand in a reasonable amount of time?

Uh no. I I could if he keeps giving me 10,000 a year, I could keep telling him, "Sure, put it back towards the loan." And it would be paid back in 7 >> I was going to say. Will he just apply the 10,000 say, "Hey, Dad, just take that off my loan balance." Which gets me to 61,000.

Back to square one. He would do that?

>> Yes. I I could do that. That's going to take 6 That's going to take 7 years.

Yes. And while interest accrues, it'll just keep climbing back up and then get knocked back down a little bit.

>> Ask him if he'll take it out of the inheritance. >> Can you like call him instead of like emailing like a transactional bank? Just

the whole thing feels odd to me.

I It's really more of a a moral question. That's why I I called because I just I wasn't sure how to handle the situation and really if I should even try to pay it back. I'd pay back the loan at >> was a loan and you knew it was a loan, you have to pay it back. Now, the interest part, I don't really like that he added that and you didn't know about it, but I do think that if if he had said, "I can just take it out of your inheritance." I'd go that route.

I'd just want it in writing so that this is over and done. The transactional part, I hate that it's like that, but we're here now, so you may as well cover your butt and get the fact that the whole loan is going to be free and clear covered in your inheritance.

>> to be hilarious is as part of the inheritance, he's going to go, "Well, it's now a $150,000 balance on this fake loan. So, that's how much I'm going to take out of your inheritance." Well, I That's what I worry about. I'd want it at the present value, not at a later value. >> point, I would say, "Hey, Dad, we never did this in writing. We should have.

That's both of our bad. We need something in writing to make this really clear of what your expectations are cuz I'm frustrated because you didn't explain any of this to me and now I owe $11,000 more to Bank of Dad while he's trying to gift me other money. This whole thing is strange and I don't know if you can see it cuz of your relationship with him, but there's just something odd about all of this." >> Mhm. I don't think I'd take any more money.

Okay. And this is why we tell people, "Don't loan your family money ever.

Yes, I appreciate the advice.

>> do I think you're a bad person if you don't pay it back and it gets taken out of the inheritance? No. But in the meantime, again, the relationship with your dad is gone as far as you know it if this isn't taken care of cuz this is looming in his mind every Thanksgiving, every Christmas when he's about to gift you more money, he's going, "Yeah, but should I? She owes me money and hasn't paid me a dime back." So, either get on a payment plan or decide it's going to be part of the inheritance at the current rate and just move on with your life.

Oh, man, that hurts my heart, Jade, cuz I just like I'm trying to picture myself in that dad's shoes giv- giving or loaning my daughter my grown daughter money and I just It's too much of a power play. Yeah, it just puts it makes you the lender and you know, the debtor and I just think that makes an awkward relationship for someone that you raised, that you love.

>> Mhm. If you love them and you want this to be a gift, let it be a gift. And if you're not comfortable with that, don't loan the money. Just say, "Hey, wish I could help. I can't." >> Right. I agree. >> don't cosign. Don't do any of that. But

the the middle ground is where things get messy. When you want to help, but it's kind of a loan. Yeah, it's just give people money, especially especially your family. I'm thinking about my kids right now and I'm thinking, "Yeah, if the time came and we Sam and I wanted to help them." We would just help them.

And it almost feels like anything else is an attempt to kind of try to control them from beyond. >> That's what I think there's something more to this and we couldn't pinpoint it. >> Mhm. I'm going to teach them responsibility, so I'm going to But I just wonder if he likes having a little bit of control because once kids are adults, they're kind of out of your control.

>> Yeah. So, you have to do things to pull them back in, yeah. Cast your spidey web on them so you have a little bit of connection there even if it's not a true, honest, authentic connection, it's still something that ties me to them that they can't get away from. >> Sometimes parents do that though.

It's so subconscious. Like they don't realize that that's the why behind what they're doing. Got to be careful. >> Yeah.

them more than Well, they show their love through money giving or loaning. I just I want them to know that's the last thing on the list. That's good, George.

>> So, that's just one man's take as a dad of a young daughter. Take it with a Take it with a grain of salt.

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Joshua is in Greenville, South Carolina up next. What's going on, Joshua?

Hey, Jade. Hey, George. How are you all?

Doing great. >> Thanks for answering my call. Yeah. What's going on with you today? >> Um So, I am struggling with got offered my

dream basically dream law enforcement job. I used to be in law enforcement um long story short, about a year and a half ago um I made a made a officer safety

mistake. I ser- I'm searching an individual and I'm I missed a firearm and brought him into the jail when I when I was arresting him and um so they they let me go for um failing

to uh conduct a proper search. Um

so uh and a guy that I used to work with, he's now works at a different law enforcement department and um offered me a traffic position like their their traffic unit um basically just stopping cars all day. Mhm. Um when I got fired, I became a truck driver um cuz my whole my whole family is in truck the trucking industry, so I just figured it was an that's that's the best thing to do was just go get my CDL and start driving trucks. But um it is a significant pay cut.

My my wife doesn't really want me to to go into law enforcement go back into law enforcement, but I just I really feel like that's my calling. So, I'm just trying to figure out how how can I have that conversation with her that that this is where where I I feel God's calling me to to be.

This is not financial at the core. This is safety at the core. Is that what it is for your wife? >> root of her not wanting you to do this? She Yeah, I think it's more so safety as far as well, you know, I'm I may go to work and and not not come home.

Okay. Is this position safer than your

previous law enforcement position or it's about the same?

No, it's it's about the same.

Um um Or is it worse?

>> is you're in the road and that puts you, you know, it's a little more hazardous in that regard. Yeah.

Yeah. But I mean, trucking is isn't the safest job out there either. Yeah, it's not the healthiest either.

No, I I also I'm I haul gasoline, so

that's That's an extra layer of danger.

A super flammable Yeah, okay.

>> say so. I stay away from those trucks when I'm on the road. >> if you give her facts and figures like, "Hey, this is how many trucking accidents and injuries and deaths there are per year versus traffic you know, department officers." Could you convince her of that or is it more just like emotional at this point?

I think it's more so emotional, but also

it is um it is a significant pay cut.

So, like right I do I I get VA disability. I get 4,300 a month from the VA for my military ser- for my military service. Okay. Um and then um

I make before taxes um about 1,500 a week with from the trucking. Uh-huh. Um but I would be going down to about 55 or 60

thousand a year if I were to leave truck driving and go into law enforcement. It It It would equate to about a 20 to 25,000 a year pay cut. Okay, my math was giving me 10 or 15,000 pay cut. Cuz you're making 6K a month now, which is 72 and you're saying you'd make 55 to 60. So, Ri- Right, but then also um

Well, I guess yeah, okay. I I guess I did my my math wrong. I just want to make sure not It's not to point out you're wrong. It's more to say, "Let's get the facts on the table. We're going to talk to wife about this and go, 'Okay, here's what this amounts to.

We're going to have a thousand less per month gross coming in.'" Now, can we survive off of my 4,300 plus the other

4,000? Should be able to.

>> so. And that's that's where I think it would help to actually make a budget based on what you would be making.

And then go, "Okay, how does this life feel? Does it feel tight? Can we still accomplish our goals? Can we still retire with dignity?" And then we can talk about the safety implications of the new role and how she feels about that. But, do you think it's something where over time she could change her mind about this if you kind of laid out the facts and figures?

I mean I I think so.

Um I think >> as well outside the home?

No. No, she's a stay-at-home mom. Okay,

does that add to this of her of her sort of um the safety gland, security gland flaring up here?

When you're the single income >> I guess if Yeah. Yeah. You guys have You have life insurance?

Um I actually just got a quote the other day through Zander, um but we have not actually gone like gotten the the life insurance yet. Good. I would do that ASAP, and uh don't delay on that. Cuz here's the thing, the more I know that my family's protected, the better I feel about whatever's going to happen.

And that's this we're betting on the you know the worst-case scenario. I hope you live a long, full life with no injuries or accidents, but the truth is we just don't know what life's going to throw at us, no matter what career you're in. And so, the more you can show her that you're being proactive, I think the better she'll feel about this, and it may take a little bit of time. You know, 1 month in is scary.

conversation, maybe she'll be warming up to it. I don't know.

Okay. But, I mean, this is going to be a a constant conversation in the house, and she's probably going to get sick of it. Mhm.

Yeah, I I mean, my take on it is they both I mean, obviously law enforcement has a level of danger, um but your other your other job

does too.

>> Yeah, both jobs are dangerous. So, it's not like you're choosing one that's a desk job and one that's, you know, risking your life.

>> So, that's where I think logic would help, but that's where I was trying to get to the bottom of where your wife is is at on this.

Cuz the pay cut doesn't concern me that much >> of a because you have your 4,300, which is stable, and you're not going You're not cutting the income in half. So, >> how much is your mortgage?

Uh 1,700 a month. Yeah, yeah, you'll be all right. >> That's reasonable. And you guys have any debt?

Uh I have um we we're actually we're in baby step two, so I have a um

two credit cards that are $1,000 each, and a $20,000 truck, and that's it.

Okay, here here would be my stipulation.

If you talk to her and said, "Hey, I'm not going to make any moves until we're completely debt-free with a fully funded emergency fund and life insurance in place, and I'm going to make sure to work my butt off to get our income back up." Would that change the conversation with her?

That probably would. Or hey, I'm willing to sell my truck to get us to a better place financially to make this move.

Would that light her up to go, "Oh my goodness, who is this person?"

Probably.

I would try all of the above to show her how serious you are about this, how passionate you are about this. And I think over time, if you make all of these moves happen, you lay it all on the table, you actually act the part, and do all of the work like I mentioned, I think it'll change the way she sees this. And even then, there's may always just be a part of her that doesn't like that you did this, but at the end of the day, it's either you being miserable in a trucking job and still have some safety issues, or you being really happy in this new position back to what you feel called to do.

Yeah, cuz there's part of this where I'm thinking you've been doing this job you were law enforcement the whole time for the most part that you've been together, so it's not like you made this radical change into this crazy field that she had no idea you were, you know, headed towards. So, that's the only reason I I I think it's okay.

That is tough. I'm just picturing you driving around with gasoline in the back, and she's like, "Well, that feels a whole lot safer >> feel good to me. than you standing outside of a church directing traffic or on a construct you know, while they're doing construction. >> stops, that's I mean, you got to pull people over, you don't know who's in that car. That window goes down.

>> That's the question, is he doing traffic stops? Is it more, you know, Yeah.

I just see him out there on Sundays, you know, doing construction jobs.

Is that Or accidents, you know, they might be out there for an accident, and that can be, you know, that's that can be scary. There's definitely some safety concerns there, but I just feel like it's it's not apples to apples, and neither are safe. So, let's at least be realistic about what the options are.

>> life on the edge. He likes it there.

He wants to be out there in the action.

Uh yes, he does. Somebody needs to do it. I did But, the other part is in the truck world, it just does feel like there's it's hard to be healthy. It's hard to live a long, full life and be physically healthy. into Wawa, you're sleeping in the cab, you're eating snacks, It feels like your your quality of life it's hard to keep that high while being in the trucking world. >> You'd probably have to work very hard to make sure you're getting the exercise you need, moving your body, eating healthy, sleeping well. It's a lot.

Man. Both tough jobs. I don't know, if you asked me to pick one, Ooh. I don't know.

I probably would choose I don't like being in the just driving that thing would freak me out. >> think I'd choose law Oh, boy. That's a hard one. >> pulling me over.

And I'd try to break you to see if I can get out of a ticket, and you would not be having it today. >> Nope, I'd have my notepad. Sir, did you >> Did you know you were speeding?

Oh, man, that We need to make a skit about that. That's good. >> is is expired.

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the day, James 1:5.

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given to him.

Jim Collins said, "Bad decisions made with good intentions are still bad decisions." >> Mhm. We get that all the time on the show here. Lot of good intentions.

>> You had You had the right idea in mind, just did it the wrong way. >> Well, I thought of they needed a co-signer. I thought I should co-sign to help them out. It's a bad decision with good intentions. It's a bad decision. >> Still bad. Rachel's in Minneapolis up next. What's going on, Rachel? How can we help today?

Hey, George. Hey, Jade. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. I am 29

years old, I'm single. Um I was living with a roommate back in June, but I moved back home with my mom to help her out with the mortgage. She's having trouble paying it. Um she's 62.

She doesn't have any retirement. She actually had to liq- well, didn't have to. Catch my verbage there. Um she liquidated it back when my parents were married because she they were in a bunch of debt, and the divorce was really hard on her. This is like 15 years ago, but um I'm on baby step two. I've paid about $8,000 down on all my debts. I've got three left, so I'll be out of debt very soon here, but I'm just wondering, do I move out and just do life on my

own, or my heart is telling me that I should as the oldest sibling, I should help my mom pay off this mortgage because she only makes about 30,000 a year, and she can't afford it. Is she in bad health? Is she sick? No. No, she's

in great health. Then no.

Here's Here's the problem. Let's play this out. This is the rest of your life.

Do you really see a world where mom is like crushing it and has a paid-off mortgage and has retirement?

Or is this you needing to basically prop up mom's life while it stunts your growth personally, professionally, financially?

Yeah. And that's the hard truth of it. So, the next part is, well, then how do we get mom to a better place financially where she's still independent and doesn't need me or my money to survive. That's the ideal scenario, right?

Mhm. So, then it becomes, okay, could we sell the house and downsize or have her

rent and still cover all her bills and have some left over. That would be my solution if she can do that. So, what is the house worth?

Um on Zillow, it says it's about 304.

And what does she owe?

136.

Okay, so she's got some good equity in this. Mhm. Mhm. Would she be open to that idea, or no?

No. I mean, I've asked her what her plan is long-term, and she's like, "Well, I'll just, you know, sell the house one day, live off of that, and live with one of you guys." I have two younger brothers, and Did you tell her that's not an option?

I Yeah, I've been listening to your radio show for the last month now, and I've learned boundaries are, you know, you got to set healthy boundaries. Planning to be a burden is a bad plan, and that's what she's doing. Yeah. And as long as you're communicating that to her, and it's not just a cuz sometimes what happens is people are like, "I have a boundary, that's not going to happen." And but it's like internal, you haven't told them.

So, as long as you're uh telling them verbally, and it's an expectation that you're saying, "Here This is my boundary. I just want to make sure you know.

married with children, and by the time you're ready to, you know, live move in with me, I might be getting married. I might be in a part of my time in my life where I don't want an extra person living in the house. So, I'm letting you know that today while you're still very young, and you still have, you know, 10 years to really financially affect your situation." We had a call like this earlier today. Um but I want to tell you uh Rachel that sometimes we do have a picture in our mind of, especially people we love, how their life should look, whether it's your kids or even your parents, especially as they get older.

And then when it's not like that, we put so much effort into trying to make it like that. And we'll go to extents.

We'll go I I feel it. Like we'll go to so many extents to create the life that we saw for our own parent. And you just

can't do that because it's you trying to control and you're like Geppetto trying to, you know, control the way the story ends. And you just Sometimes you just have to throw your hands up and go, "It's not my life." And to quote John,

you kind of have to grieve that and go, "Man, I I thought it was going to be one way, and it looks like she's kind of going to struggle." Unless >> you didn't intercede, she's going to get foreclosed on if she misses enough mortgage payments. She knows that, right?

Yeah, and I mean, my brothers and I would have stepped in, but I personally feel guilty because I I'm getting a good deal living here. Like we're splitting the mortgage, so I'm paying, you know, $775, which is significantly cheaper than anywhere else I would get rent. And that's half the mortgage?

Yeah, yeah, we're splitting it right now. So, the minimum payment's like 15.

But like I'm she's helping me out in a way because I'm saving money and able to pay off my debt and then I'm going to start building up my emergency fund and saving up for a down payment.

>> But at some point, you're going to move on with your life and maybe get married.

And so it's artificially propping up her life right now because she makes what?

A little over $2,000 a month?

Yeah. >> And her mortgage alone is 1,500, and that doesn't include insurance, food, utilities. But you guys are in the same situation. The same way you're using this as an advantage and saying, "Oh, I can lower my expenses by living with her, and in the meantime, now I can take my extra money and do this." She can do the same thing.

She can say, "Oh, this is a great time.

I can take advantage of the time that my daughter's here covering half the mortgage. Now I can go out If I make more money, I can make more headway with it." Do you see what I'm saying? You're in the same boat. You're just choosing to take the paddle and row forward, and she's just leaving the paddle in the boat and hoping that you'll row for her.

And planning to live off of $150,000 for the rest of her life is insane.

And I don't know if she knows that yet.

And I guess she's assuming that you all are going to just going to fund her life and pay off her bills, so she won't have to even touch that money. But you need to make it clear that's not going to work. That's not the plan.

As much as she wants it to be the plan.

And so that might be convincing her that she needs to sell this house and downsize to a $200,000 condo or townhome, something she can afford, maybe further out than she wants to be, so that she can afford this mortgage. So the mortgage is $600 instead of 1,500. And now she can survive on her own. It's not a great life. She still needs to get her income up cuz she's going to have to work for the foreseeable future, right? She has no retirement, no savings.

So, we did actually stumble upon a 33,000 dollar pension that we're rolling

over into an IRA, like a a Roth IRA.

>> Good. So, I was planning on putting it in some some mutual funds like you guys suggested. Hopefully, you know, every 7 years it'll double. So, I'm We've got that at least. That's something. Maybe one day she can utilize that. It's not enough It's not like woo. It's like finding 20 bucks in your old coat pocket. You know, it's not like winning the lottery. So, it's great, but she still needs something sustainable. And that I don't know why she's only making $14 an hour at 62. What is she doing full-time?

So, she's a tailor, but she also

sells custom men's clothing.

So, that feels more like a side job.

>> like commission?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I would try to find something that's She needs something stable right now. And if she has that skill set, I think she can be making more if she's hustling.

I know it's not fun at 62 to be working harder than you've ever worked, but you need to let her feel the fire that's in her life right now. >> And she's she's healthy, man. 60's the new 40. Yeah, I mean, that's younger than Dave Ramsey, and that man is not stopping anytime soon.

>> day every day. Yeah, I I think you got to give her more credit. She's She's not elderly. She's not, you know, It's not like she can't go out and and do some hard work today.

Yeah.

I've asked her about, you know, increasing her income, and she is I don't know. She's just not very motivated. Like she's just like, "I can't go out and You know what motivated her? Not being able to make her mortgage payment cuz daughter moved out, and now I have to do this. And right now, there's a little bit of almost enabling to where she's a little comfortable cuz she's got you to float the gaps, right?

Yeah. And I think discomfort is what she actually needs right now. As cruel as it actually feels, it's the healthiest thing you can do for a grown adult to get them on their own feet versus artificially propping them up. So, I'm so sorry you're going through this.

It is so much easier said than done. And if this was my own mom, I would be having the same feeling as you. You want to do anything to help them out. But again, you're not in a place of strength to even help her out.

You're also struggling financially trying to pay off debt. If you had multi-million dollars, I'd say, "Hey, just pay off her mortgage and and, you know, help her out here." But you're just not in a position to do that at this stage of your life, and that's okay. So, good luck with the conversations. I hope we can get her to a sustainable place where she feels motivated, independent, and you're not her retirement plan.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books.

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## 15. Bigger Financial Problems Leave Less Room for Bad Decisions


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. [music] From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

And I'm Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with my good friend and co-host of SmartMoney Happy Hour, George Kamel. And we'll be answering your calls, [music] so give us a call at 888-825-5225.

And we'll be talking about your life [music] and your money. First up, we have Jimmy in Los Angeles. Hi Jimmy,

welcome to the show.

>> Hey Rachel. Hey George. Big fan of y'alls. Thank you so much for what you do. I really appreciate everything that you guys do. And I've gained a lot of knowledge these past few weeks.

I'm learning more about what you guys do and how to kind of like financially plan my future. But, I've kind of gotten myself into a sticky situation and um

I'm just trying to see if I can like maybe get some guidance on trying to find a way out. >> Sure. So, what's going on?

>> So, late 2024, you know, I retired from the military. I served for 22 years and

earlier that year I decided to open up like a kind of like a shop and

where we just do like detail services, paint protection film, wraps and things like that. And um yeah, it actually cost me a lot of money throughout that year. >> I'm sure. How much? >> Um to the point Uh well, we're at a point now where we're like

like $580,000 in debt at this point.

>> Okay. >> Um that first year we took like a $220,000 loss. Um admittedly, I think I

hired too many people full-time.

Um kind of went in too fast and uh

too hard on that and um

Yeah, it kind of really hurt me. So, I had to take I had to take like an SBA loan to kind of get caught up and >> [gasps] >> used a bunch of credit cards and then the year after um it we netted So, just last year, we

netted about 35% net loss. So, we had

another net loss, but it was a better net loss.

And um >> You're still throwing money at this thing. >> I'm still throwing money at this thing.

I mean, it seems like you're kind

>> Oh, it seems like we're we're kind of like making a way out of that and

>> what's what's the stop loss here? A million dollars in debt and then we'll call it quits? I mean, at some point you just got to go this ain't it.

I would rather pack it up now versus try to It's like a gambler where they lost a bunch of money in Vegas and they go back to go like, well, now I got to win even bigger to get out of this mess.

>> Right. That's what I was afraid of and and you know, through this process, I've kind of been, you know, free labor. So, I haven't been getting paid by my business. >> On top of that, you're How are you paying your bills? Through more debt?

>> Um >> Do you have retirement through military?

>> I do. I do. >> that per month? >> wife My wife works, too.

Uh I pull in about 5,500 take home per

month um from my military retirement and then she makes about She makes about like take home 4,500-ish

per month. >> Okay. So, 10 grand a month is what we're taking home. And that's that's the hard truth is that's the number we need to actually pay down this over half a million dollars in debt.

>> Right. >> What does the trajectory look like for revenue?

>> Um it's it's it's looking positive.

Um cuz you know, last year as I said, even though we had a a net loss, um it was a smaller net loss, and I think this year we'll be in the positive.

But I'm struggling because like I've been working for free for 2 years essentially in this business. >> Well, and digging deeper in debt. I mean, 35% loss. I mean, this is just a >> Yeah. >> very expensive hobby at this point. This isn't a business. >> Even if it breaks even, this isn't worth it. >> No.

>> Right. >> Um >> Well, I was afraid of. >> Yeah. Um Jimmy, what when you when you project out, what do you um with all these loans, how much is the is it half a million now or how much debt in general, I'm just trying to I'm trying to project out like what by I don't know, in the next like month or two, like how much total debt are you guys in?

>> So, I've I've written everything down.

So, as it stands right now, um

on the business side, we're at $580,000

in debt. Um I know I have a PhD in being a bozo.

Um >> How much of that's credit card and how much of that is small business loans?

>> Um so, 165,000 of that is credit. And

then the rest is split up between SBA

working capital and a line of credit.

>> Okay.

Cuz I'm just thinking the credit cards, you know, if you get behind, those will be easier to settle than some of these loans directly >> SBA loan >> from the bank. >> What does your wife think about this? What does she think you should do?

>> Uh she's not very happy with it. Uh but she's been very supportive and very understanding throughout the process. So, an absolute blessing to me. Um definitely not an added stressor. She's She's been an anchor for me, for sure.

Um >> Yeah, I I mean, a little bit, Jimmy, but a part of me also is like, are you guys aren't living in reality? Like, she should be kind of flipping out. Do you know what I mean? I'm like I mean, I understand that the anchor of of feeling supported, but you're you're feeling supported in doing something that's continually getting you guys deeper and deeper into a problem versus saying, "Stop. Stop where we are and we're done." Because we can't just keep doing this. And the problem, too, is that the guesswork um, for what you're

possibly going to do this year, I mean you know what I mean? It's like, you can't you can't predict it. And and so, you guys either have to say "We're going to try to stick this out for a year with no more debt. No more debt. And if that means we have to close up parts of the business in order to do that okay, to see if we can get some revenue in here." But, you guys can't just keep digging yourselves in a hole and expect just to come out the other side.

>> Right. Right. Very true. >> So, I would sit down and you guys I mean, you either need to make a decision. If you were to stop this completely, do you guys have um, things

that you can sell off in the business? Like, is there any way that you could gain any of this money back if you were to close shop today?

From like, a real estate perspective or like, you know what I mean? Um >> Equipment you have in the business?

>> Yeah, I have about $50,000 worth of equipment, but I I think that's tied up in the SBA loan. They they would have to, you know, I'd have to get permission to to sell that off to pay that loan down. >> Yeah. >> And that's why I was like, worst case, you know, I I I'd I'd I'd really want to avoid bankruptcy. It's definitely not my first choice. And um, I even thought about getting like, a job. Uh, like

so I can just get some sort of income and then using that job to pay down this debt.

But, since it's a business, I don't really want to like, create murky waters with me paying off business debt with my own personal income. but >> It's all It's all tied to you anyways, Jimmy. >> Go back to the papers. Look who signed it. >> It's you. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's all They're all going to come for you.

>> It's not like Car Detailer LLC, well, they owe the money, not Jimmy.

>> Right. >> It's guaranteed by you, and so that's the That's the hard news, is you have to now picture this like it's just consumer debt that you took on.

And so, you're you're going to begin the business of cleaning it up, and I hope that you can find a new job uh that can

create a better income that will allow you to clean this up faster. But, if you just even sell the 50 grand worth of equipment, that's 10% of your debt you just knocked out. And so, you got to start making progress. I would not sink more money into this thing just to be 600,000 in debt, 650, and hope we have less of a net loss.

Uh, I'm heartbroken for you, man. Thank you for your service, too. 22 years, that's that's incredible. I hope you guys can climb out of this.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But, there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it.

But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Zander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander Insurance for over 25 years and so has my family. >> So, don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

>> [music]

[music] >> George is up next in Newark, New Jersey.

George, welcome to the show.

Are you with us? >> Uh thank you. Thank you. Sorry about that. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Uh yes. >> What's going on? >> How's it going, guys?

Rocking and rolling. Um first of all, you guys are awesome. Uh I've been working with you all for maybe like uh going on 2 years. About to be debt free this year and everything like that working with the >> Nice. >> Smart Vestor Pro in Maryland.

>> Oh, good. Amazing.

>> Um I had a quick question for you. Um hopefully uh this is your area of expertise. If not, then hopefully you guide me in the right direction. I um before I was working with you all, I you know, I was ignorant to a lot of stuff.

So, I had um got mixed up back in maybe 2016

with a um a guy from my gym. Uh long

story short, uh he's he was running a LLC or supposedly and um I was investing

into a high interest savings account.

>> Mhm. >> Um so basically I got scammed, long story short. Uh he got me for 38 grand.

>> Oh, no.

>> And then I hired lawyers lawyers and everything like that. Um so I all in all I was out maybe like 40 about 45 grand.

>> My gosh, George. >> Awful. >> I'm so sorry. Was it like a Ponzi scheme kind of thing or like a like or he would take your money and invest you know put it somewhere else and he would make a difference and then he ended up not and lost all your money?

>> Exactly. >> Oh, man. I'm so sorry.

>> I um you know, again this is before I met you guys. I wish I would have met you guys sooner, but um that's done. So it's kind of a thorn in my side cuz I'm trying to figure out whether I should continue going after him because um I already went to court.

We already got the judgment. He didn't show up and everything like that. Um you know, he got served and everything, but the thing is you know, I had to learn about the law because the judgment is just basically toilet paper right now because he got rid of all of yeah, exactly. >> doesn't have assets doesn't have income you can garnish, there's not much they can do.

>> Basically that's basically what I what I want to do. >> say you've been chasing for 4 years, who who is actually been the person trying to track him down and and get him to pay? >> Uh uh I hired a um a debt collection company.

And then um at first it was you know, it was free and everything like that because uh you know, they would they you know, if they get paid I get paid kind of kind of deal, but then after maybe like a year or two, then they want they asked me if I wanted to like increase the some some kind of excuse they gave me and it was like another two grand or whatever. I think to to push that forward cuz this is during the pandemic.

>> Yeah. >> So, to push like paperwork forward and so that added to the money that I'm out and I wanted to see if you guys think I should just count it as a loss or just, you know, cuz without assets, you know, now that I know that it's just >> Yeah, that's my fear. You spend 25 grand chasing this guy down and then it turns out you don't get a dime from him. Well, now you just lost another 25 grand.

So, it may be time to emotionally write this off and call it a stupid tax and move on. >> Yeah. >> If it's been 4 years, I mean this is this is weighing on you. It's living rent-free in your head and I think it's time to move on.

People do all kinds of dumb moves and lose 40 grand. You know, I went in 40 grand of consumer debt back in the day.

>> Got you. Okay.

I figured that. >> I'm so sorry, man. >> George. >> I'm like like when I I'm like a dog who's like I want to I want to get this guy.

>> want justice, right? >> go full John Wick, man. You know, but at some point >> $38,000, you know, it's not $3,800. Like that's a lot of money.

>> It's a lot of money. >> Yep. >> But, the crazy thing is is I do think once you emotionally kind of just get over it, right? You detach and you're like, okay, I'm moving on.

Um you start to really really see what you can do and what you have the power to do. As you're experiencing now, I'm baby step two, George. Like you're getting yourself out of debt. Like that money will come back, right?

>> Sorry you're dealing with that.

Maybe this will get you debt-free faster if you allocate all of your energy and focus and resources towards that, I think you'll feel a whole lot better and it'll be a fun story you share with your kids one day when you're a multi-millionaire.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's >> That's tough luck, my friend. Oh, that's brutal. Rachel, it reminds me when I got scammed long ago. Fraud happened. People opened up AT&T accounts, Verizon accounts under my name, social security number, past address, racked up 1,700 bucks on both accounts, never paid a dime, and so I had to deal with that.

And luckily I had Xander ID theft, and so they stepped in and helped clean this mess up. But I found who the people were cuz I was a sleuth.

>> You found who it was? Like the individuals? >> Yeah. And I really wanted to go full, you know, wishbone on the case and go, "I'm going to investigate. I'm going to bring them to justice." And then I just like I'm like, "What am I doing? What am I doing?" >> Drew. >> I don't know how dangerous these women are. >> Yeah, was it women? >> It was two women. >> No way. >> Still have their names. >> Here? Like in America? >> They were in Boston, in the Boston area.

I lived in Tennessee at the time, but they opened these accounts up in Boston, so >> George. >> Yeah, there you go. I'm not going to I'm going to I'll leave that for a future investigation, but goodness gracious.

It's hard It's a hard pill to swallow when it happens. All right, Dominic is in South Bend up next. Dominic, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. >> What's going on?

>> So, I've heard you guys speak about zero credit score and buying houses with manual underwriting. >> Mhm. >> I purchased a home years before hearing about you. So, having zero credit score when buying my next one won't be an option.

>> Sure, you have a credit score now due to your mortgage payment.

>> Correct. Is that a loan going to be enough to maintain a good enough score or what's there?

>> Have you made your mortgage payments on time? >> Yeah, that's >> Great. You likely have a great score.

So, there's no need to open up new credit accounts and credit cards to try to increase it. When you go to get another mortgage, they're just going to look at yours and go, "Okay, is your debt-to-income ratio good? Do you have a history of on-time payments?" And they'll grant you that. So, unless you Have you checked your credit score? Is it in the tank or is it solid?

>> No, it's solid. I just I wasn't sure if just a mortgage alone would be enough in the future >> Yes. >> or if they needed more history.

>> No, you'll be good. And if you ever have a questions about it, you can always contact, you know, Church Hill Mortgage and they can walk you through what they actually look for. But you're this the score is the score. That's what they're looking for. And so, they're not going to say, "Well, you don't have enough types of debt." That's all factored into your score. And so, if your score is solid, you're going to be fine. And once you pay off the mortgage, then 6 to 12 months after that, your credit score will disappear again.

>> Okay. >> And so, you'll go back through that process. But you're on you're on the path, man. Good for you. How long until you pay off the house?

>> I don't think I'll pay it off.

>> Not with that attitude, Dominic.

What's left on the mortgage? >> home. I still owe 160 on it. >> Okay. >> Cuz you're saying you'll probably move homes move houses before you paid off.

Got you. Got you. Yeah. >> Okay.

>> Yeah, no, that's a but it's a good question because we do talk about people not having to worship at the altar of, you know, the credit the the FICO score or the credit score because you can actually get a house called you know, through manual underwriting. But if you have a bad credit score and you go to apply for a mortgage, they're going to pull your credit score regardless. >> That will hurt you. >> Yeah, so if you have one that's undetermined, then you can do manual underwriting.

But if you have a bad credit score when you go and get a mortgage, and as you're getting out of debt, George, for a lot of people, consumer debt, your score will lower as you you know what I mean? Like as you're starting to get out. >> That's how stupid the credit score game is. You're like, "Wait, I'm doing good things.

I'm knocking out debt." And they're like, "Yeah, but we don't like that." >> I know. >> We'd rather you keep it around and pay it perfectly. >> Yeah, so on baby step two, you guys, if you're paying off your debt and then you try to go and get a mortgage, which is not part of the you know, that's baby step 3B, but if you try to do it earlier and they pull your credit score, it may not be great because you're paying off your debt, your consumer debt.

So, your credit score will not be in the tank as long as you actually close all accounts. >> Yes. >> If you still have any accounts open or you still have a credit card open, that will show up on your credit report and keep your credit score alive. And so, make sure when you pull that credit report, nothing is active.

And then, 6 to 12 months later, there's no real exact timeline, but that's what I've experienced and many that I've talked to, your credit score just becomes indeterminable. It doesn't actually go to zero. >> Yeah, it's not actually a technically a zero credit score. >> We just like to say that cuz it sounds cool.

>> It's fun. >> Zero What's your credit score?

>> Zero. I don't have one. >> That's the real flex. And that's honestly how they operated back in the day, like in our parents' day.

The credit score has only existed since the '90s. So, before then, you're like, "Well, how did people get homes?" Well, they looked at your actual tax return, you had a relationship with the bank, and they looked at your income and savings.

Like, they looked at you as a person, which is what manual underwriting does, anyways. >> Instead of the computers going, "Good credit score, give them a loan." And so, it's really not that difficult. I've done it myself. I'm alive to tell the tale. So, it's worth pursuing to become completely debt-free, and then do it the right way.

>> [music]

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[music] >> Trina is in Florida up next. Trina, welcome to the Ramsey show. How can we help today?

>> Hi. Hi, I'm so excited, you guys.

>> We're excited as well. >> you called, Trina. Now, we're excited to talk to you.

>> Okay, guys. I'm having this like issue.

I always said I wanted to retire by the time I was 40.

I am almost 40. >> Wow. Wow.

>> It's an aggressive plan. >> My dad did it twice before he turned 40,

and I'm just like >> Wait. You can't Wait. You can't get my Wait. >> [laughter] >> Hold on. He retired twice? What do you mean?

>> So, he retired from the city, and then

he retired from boxing. So, he like got to retire twice before he turned 40.

>> Was he a He said boxing?

>> Yeah. >> If he was a professional boxer?

>> Yeah, he was like semi-pro.

>> That's pretty cool. >> But he Did he have to do it to earn money?

Yes. >> Okay, so he didn't really like get to retire. >> He was semi-retired while semi-pro, and then fully retired. >> Okay. >> I'm just trying to relieve some pressure for you of like the reality.

>> [laughter] >> from then? You're You're "I want to be like Dad. I want to retire by 40.

>> Well, I It inspired me. Yes, I've always been like that. I've always been like a overachiever, a workaholic.

>> I'm like, yeah, an aggressive goal, you know, of something big that you're like, I want to work for that. I get that. Okay. Okay. Perfect. So >> So yeah, how can we help?

So I ran into a financial situation.

It's not a lot of debt.

It's like $24,000 worth of debt and I make about 60. So I want to pay this debt off and I'm working on that.

>> Um it's like 20,000 in a car.

Um like 4,000 about in um personal loans

and like 2,000 in my son's private school

that I still owe.

And oh, credit cards, like 16,000 in credit cards. >> Woo. 16,000.

>> like a recipe to early retirement.

>> [laughter] >> Like if I was trying to retire early, I'd probably go, "Hey, I'm going to make sure I don't owe people money and have money saved on top of that." >> I know. >> So how long how long has this been floating around? How long have you had this debt for?

>> Um so I filed a bankruptcy about 2 years

ago. Um this is when all of this started. >> So all of this debt was post bankruptcy or did it get What do you want a payment plan? What happened?

>> Um so actually the only debt that I don't technically

like I don't have to pay back um one of the personal loans, uh one of the credit cards and yeah. >> Because of because of the bankruptcy?

>> Because of the bankruptcy. And the issue is that I want to keep the relationship with that bank and I want to pay them their money back cuz I never wanted to put the items in bankruptcy. I was still

paying it, but they said that because I filed a chapter 7 that they had to put it in the >> What caused you to file bankruptcy 2 years ago? What was the What were your numbers then?

>> So then I was making about um it kind of flip-flopped. I was making about 40, then I went back to 60.

Um then I think before that I made 80.

Um so what happened was I was working for this company. I had moved. I was working for this company.

Um basically I decided I wanted to open up my own company because we're under government contracts. We have a certain criteria that we have to meet.

When I said that I wanted to open up my

company, the government agency said that they had

to take away all my clients. So basically I went from having, you know,

a a decent income to like having nothing the next day. >> Okay, and it was all because of this new business. >> Yes, and >> never took off, but you took out loans to float the business for a bit, and that's what caused the bankruptcy.

>> No, so when they took my clients, um it

took a while. It took about a year and a half for me to open up and to get clients. So I started having clients in

September. I had like maybe 15. Um now I

have like 25. So and that's all I need financially. >> Okay, yes, but Trina, I'm I'm What caused the bankruptcy 2 years ago? That was it consumer debt? Was it business loans? What was it?

>> So I had these um student loans, and I

put them in a adversary proceeding where I filed bankruptcy to get rid of the student loans while I was waiting for my

agency to open. When the agency

um when the agency didn't take off right away, I started using my kids college funds, my retirement.

>> I started pulling everything out.

>> Okay. >> And so, I started lifting

um and I started working as with another company, but that company just didn't pay that much. I was working there. >> Okay, so Trina, I have a new goal for you. I think instead of retiring at 40, we are going to learn to live debt free.

>> Which I usually do. But this was like >> Trina, so far it's been everyone else's fault and the government took your clients away. >> No, no, I'm not saying she's pushing on everyone's fault, but like no, Trina, you got to be able to say like I I yes, I I'm used to living with debt though from student loans to where you are now. There's a pattern of you using debt. Can we say yes to that?

>> Oh, that makes sense, yeah. I wasn't looking at it like that. Sorry. >> Nope, you're great.

No, I just want to make sure we're we're tracking. So, I think in order to have a completely new mindset with money from where you've been of saying I'm living completely debt free. It Debt's not an option. Debt is not an option.

I'm going to save up and pay for things. I'm not going to be making unwise decisions about purchases and pulling money out of retirement or kids college or investments cuz that's not wise, right? We um that stuff is all for the future and I'm going to learn to live within my income and my means.

making hard decisions about lifestyle and about, you know, yeah, I mean, life choices and everything. And so, I mean, genuinely, I would make that the goal. I would make it a aggressive goal to

get out of debt in I don't know what, 2 years? Like make make a make a goal to

aggressive goal to get out of debt, to save up a fully funded emergency funds.

Um >> And freeze your credit. That way it stops you.

2 and 1/2 years is you're fine. Okay.

>> Okay, that's so great. >> We never even got to your question, Trina. I'm sorry. There's so much details to jump into. What is your actual question we can help you with?

>> Well, I wanted to basically flip this piece of property. They have a piece of land that's for sale that hasn't been impacted yet. I wanted to do like a creative finance to see if I >> no, we're off the path. Remember 10 seconds ago what we talked about?

>> [laughter] >> Creative financing just means, "Hey, I'm going to do stupid with home stairs."

>> Yeah, okay. So, so how would you answer how would you answer this now? Trina, answer your own question with your new goals in mind.

>> So, I am going to stick to my 2 and 1/2 year budget that literally just got fixed this month. >> Yes, and that's what we're talking about, Trina. See?

>> Exactly after that, and then

maybe save the money instead of >> Yes, look at you. >> And how old how old are you, Trina?

>> I'm 38. >> 38. Okay, can I tell you if you don't retire by 40, you're not a failure?

>> I promise. >> just promise you that? If you don't retire by 60, you're not a failure.

How about this? You're not a failure, period. >> Aw. >> There you go. That's the most encouraging thing I've said today. >> I think Rachel can attest [laughter] to that. >> But the truth is, I we have these aggressive goals, and we need to create actions to get there, and we can't hold ourselves to these goals because life is going to happen.

And so, it's okay to pivot the dream, but one thing we can't do is pivot and going backwards and rob our future, rob our children's future. You are worth more than that. And so, from today forward, you're a person who doesn't go into debt, who doesn't owe people money.

>> And all your decisions can be based off of that value system cuz that brings you freedom, Trina. There's no shortcut.

There's no like, "Okay, I can do this creative financing here and do this, and I'll make 20 grand just like that, and look at that." Like, that's not that doesn't work. That's not the real world.

It is it is hard work. It is the long

game. It is a marathon. It's not a sprint. And it's just a different mindset you have to be in to get true financial freedom and true control over your money.

And so, you do have to shift the way you've been doing it, Trina. If you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. And [music] so, um yeah, I'm glad that Trina uh answered her own question. >> We got there.

>> We're not going to finance a piece of land to build a home to flip it. Uh we are going to work on getting out of debt. >> De-risk your life.

More debt equals more risk. And so, this creative financing is just adding more risk to the puzzle. And so, be free.

That's your best path to an early retirement. >> Trina. Thanks for Thanks for calling.

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Matt is in Colorado Springs. What's going on, Matt?

>> Hey, uh first first thing I'm just going to say is y'all are such a blessing to so many people. >> Oh, thank you. >> I I >> [clears throat] >> I I've listened for quite some time, and I I'm just thankful for what y'all do.

Uh and and now I find myself in a situation where I could use some advice. >> Yeah, thank you, Matt.

>> Yeah, so I guess the brass tacks of the situation is I've got pretty considerable amount of IRS debt.

I own two businesses, and I've just kind

of got myself in a little bit of a hole.

Um And so, the question is

if there's any credibility to

tax relief programs and and things of that nature.

>> Well, they're often marketed to people who are desperate and vulnerable. Uh which is never a good sign.

You know, when they're That usually means they're predatory, and they're promising way over-promising and under-delivering. So, what they tell you to do is basically, "Hey, don't pay a dime. You pay us instead." And what's going to happen is tanks your credit, which with the IRS, not the people you want to not pay.

And so, they then try to settle for you and save you money.

Which, by the way, you can do all of this yourself. And with the IRS, they can already set up a payment plan.

So, there's really no use for a tax relief program in this situation.

>> Okay. >> They're just paid middle-men between you and the IRS.

>> Right. And and the other

office that I contacted was more of like a tax attorney that talks more about the the future plan for the taxes for the business to to avoid this issue in the future, which >> Yeah, that's legit. May be beneficial.

Yeah. >> Um but but then his office was saying, you know, we don't recommend these tax relief programs because they're they're over-promising, under-delivering. So, >> Perfect. I'm in line with an attorney.

That's a good day for me.

>> [laughter] >> Okay. So, uh I guess I guess the question is in your if you were in this situation, what what steps you might take? Um >> Yeah, how much do you make a year, Matt?

>> Uh it's kind of relative.

Uh probably somewhere around 100 or so.

>> Okay. And do you have anything in savings?

>> Yeah.

I typically try not to dip below 15 or 20 in savings.

Uh >> So, you have 20?

>> Yeah, about about right there right now.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Uh the the the issue with my particular business is it's extremely seasonal with construction. So, you know, I kind of hunker down in the wintertime and you know, rice and beans and the just about nothing. So, Um but then in the the the busier season, it's easier to tackle some of these things. So, >> What kind of construction?

>> Uh outdoor, you know, fence and deck and

uh >> Yeah. a lot of carpentry kind of stuff.

So >> Cool. Well, the good news is you can

still work during that time and make money and you can definitely pay this money back in a reasonable amount of time. Do you have any other debts that are holding you back from creating the margin to knock this out quick?

>> Yeah, there's still about 20,000 remaining on a HELOC.

>> Okay. >> And I already know that's a teeth grinding words ringing probably but Um Uh that Yeah, it's it's one of those situations where I'm sure I could pay that off but then you know, you have to worry about the the bills right now. So if I were to pay it off I would wait until the money's coming in more fluently and >> Okay. So you got 40 to the IRS, 20 on the HELOC, anything else?

>> Uh that's about it. I've I've paid off I don't know 20,000 something in credit cards. >> Great. And do you have no car loans?

>> Yeah, well I would this changes the debt snowball a little bit because IRS debt gets moved to the front. So even before the HELOC, I would be tackling this 40 and I would just make it an aggressive goal and again, I don't know if it's a payment plan that you contact the IRS with but I would try to have this all paid off in less than a year.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> So so I guess other pieces of the equation are I've got to file the last two years of taxes I'm behind on that.

Uh so there'll be probably another 10 to 15 after all the expenses and all that.

>> So let's call it 60.

Is that fair? >> Sure. >> So if we call it 60, you know you owe 60, set up a payment plan with them and maybe it's hey, you're going to pay a thousand a month or 2,000 a month and then once you get down to that, you know, you got 15 grand left, I would use your savings to just knock it out. And then you can replenish the savings. Really what you do is then attack the HELOC, then replenish the savings.

>> So I guess the question then become you know, I pay a a considerable amount of additional principal on my home.

Uh, or does it make more sense to factor that into this >> Yes. >> equation? >> Yeah, I would just pay my minimum >> the minimum mortgage payment. Why are you paying extra on the principal of your home right now?

>> Uh, generally just, you know, you look at the amortization schedule and all of that and it and it you know, [clears throat] over a course of time it just makes sense. But >> And it does in the right order, but you want to get this stuff cleaned up. So, if you if you went down to just your mortgage payment, how much does that free up a month?

>> Uh, probably about another thousand or so.

>> Oh, great. >> So, how much could you reasonably put towards this IRS debt every month if you got aggressive? >> Well, this is where it gets tricky cuz you know, I listen to your show constantly and people are like, "Well, I make this exact amount every month or every two weeks." And for me, I have months where it's 15, 20,000 and I have months where it's 2,000.

>> peaks and valleys. >> But you've been doing this a while, so you probably could look at a calendar and semi guess like this probably will be good months here, low months here.

So, yeah, so you maybe putting, you know, maybe, you know, 1,300, 1,400 towards this on a low month, but a good month you could be throwing 3,000 at it, right? Um, so I would kind of just map it out that way.

>> And I'm already set up on like their minimum amount, 400 something a month.

Uh, so I've been actively attacking it for a couple of years. Uh, but it seems like every dollar that goes into it's just paying off the accruing interest, you know. >> Right. >> You need to get way more aggressive on this, which means all focus is on this IRS debt.

No extra on the mortgage, your budget is bare bones. You are just covering four walls, food, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance, anything else is going towards this. And try to make make it to where there's no gap in income. Now, I understand you're going to have some really good months and some rough months, but I don't want you to sitting around going, "Well, there's no work to be done right now." >> Sure.

But I guess in general you you wouldn't, you know, I I mean I could run the HELOC up more and pay that and it might be less percentage that I'm paying or >> not adding a cent to the HELOC. We're not going to keep going with this line of credit. We are done with that.

>> But do you do you think it would make sense to sell off additional assets to try to do this or what?

>> Well, I've got a considerable number of vehicles and machinery that are mostly associated with the business. Uh I mean they're for all intents and purposes mine, but the business owns them.

>> Yeah, would it would it decimate the business income if you sold these off?

>> it though to to run your business?

>> Well, I it's probably like a half and half kind of number. I mean, you know, skid steers and tractors and things that that are relatively essential. Uh >> But you have one piece of machinery you're thinking of that you're like, "Okay, I could sell that and be okay." >> Doesn't get a lot of use, doesn't create a lot of revenue right now.

>> Yeah. >> What could you get for that?

>> Uh I mean, probably somewhere between 15

and 20. >> Wow. >> Thousand?

>> Yeah. >> That paired with your savings gets you out of the IRS debt like tomorrow.

>> Yes. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> I kind of figured you all would be on that that boat. >> And you can always buy it used later if you need it, right? With cash.

>> Sure. >> Yeah, and that and again, that's all saying that that's not affecting your business. I don't want you to have to turn business away. >> half your income because you sold this thing. >> Right. Right. Right. So, you want to be smart about it. But if it's something that you're really not using or really need and you can get 20 grand off of it, yeah. >> I'm doing that for sure.

>> Yeah, I'm I'm a huge advocate of not having car loans and and I fix them all myself and whatnot, so that >> That's right. Yeah. >> Yeah, anything you have, Matt, I would I would cuz I think if you had no IRS debt

and no HELOC, how would you feel?

>> I don't like I could scream. >> Like amazing. Hi, I can scream I'm debt free. Exactly. Yeah, so I'm like yeah, whatever you could do to get to that level of peace and control is what we're after. And then later when the business is doing great and you have all [music] this freed up money cuz you don't have debt, you're able to save and if you need to go buy some equipment >> Cash flow some equipment. I'm changing the Dave quote. Now it's sell so much stuff the skid steer thinks it's next.

Cuz it is, my friend. Good luck selling it. Hope you get a great buyer who's happy to pay you what it's worth.

>> [music]

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Kamel joined by best-selling author and my co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruze. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. [music]

Up next we head to Charlotte who is in Columbia, South Carolina. Charlotte, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. How are you? >> We are doing great. How can we help today?

>> Um my question is well, my husband and I

are we have $100,000 of student loan

debt that we just started paying off and

my dad had promised that he would help pay this debt off. However, in the last year we had to cut ties with him.

So thank you. >> Charlotte, you're breaking up with us. Charlotte, can you speak directly in your phone or try to get to a better spot? I heard your 100,000 student loans. Dad said he would help pay them off and you recently had to cut him off.

>> Yes, we did. We had to cut ties with him. And so we are now >> Like the relationship is over?

>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Got it. >> Correct. Yes. So we are now just looking

into this debt now as for our own to pay off and my

question is what tips would you have to pay this off quickly? I don't want this to be looming over our heads for longer than it needs to.

>> We agree. >> Uh what did y'all get your degrees in?

>> It my husband got a law degree. So that

>> Oh gotcha. Okay, perfect. So is he practicing law right now?

>> Yes, he is. >> Okay. And how much is he making a a year?

>> He is making a little over 100k.

>> Okay. And what are you making a year?

>> I'm just making a little over 20k. I'm working part-time. We just had our first child back in October. >> Okay. Oh, congratulations.

>> Thank you. >> Um okay, great. So, um yeah, I mean, the the most efficient way to do this, Charlotte, is um is if you have multiple

student loans, do you? Or is it all one loan? >> It's just one loan. >> Okay. Yeah, so it's just going to be you know, taking >> Attacking the mountain, throwing as much as you can every month on top of the minimum payment, just throwing as much as you guys can. So, it's make as much as we can every month, spend as little as we can, and use that difference, that margin to knock out this debt fast.

>> you guys make 120 a year, if you lived on 60,000, Charlotte, and you guys basically had no lifestyle, you're just like, "Listen, we are just going to just live on what we got." Um

and you threw 60 at it, I mean, in a year and a half, you guys will have this paid off.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, it's just you got to live like a a broke law student and not like a lawyer.

And that might be a I don't know what your lifestyle is like, but that's going to be a big shift.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, do you guys have margin every month in your budget?

>> We definitely could. We could have more.

Um Yeah. Yeah. >> So, make it a goal. Let Could you this month, with the next paychecks coming in, throw $4,000 on top of the minimum at the debt?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> You got to listen 2 years. I mean, that's the math of it. There's no like life hack shortcut. Now, if you were doing the debt snowball and you had multiple debts, we'd say attack the little one first, minimums on the rest, and create some progress. This is a little bit harder cuz it's just your It's like paying off a mortgage. You're just staring down this mountain going, "All right." I would celebrate the wins.

Every $10,000 you pay off, you guys have a little fun, whatever you decide to do.

And that'll keep you motivated along the way. Maybe make it visual. Maybe you have like, you know, rings and chains across the house and or on the fridge, whatever you guys decide to do. Making it visual, having a deep why. Maybe this child is your deep why of I want this kid to grow up in a house that doesn't know debt.

That has financial stability.

>> Yeah, and it probably is There's probably a painful element, too, right?

That it came You guys are doing this cuz of a relationship that was fractured. So, every You know what I mean? It's kind of like the sad reminder, too, um of having this around of like why we have to pay this off. So, there is a part two of like, "Oh, I just want to add >> want it to drag out. >> want it out of my life, you know?

>> Definitely. >> Is your husband on board with this?

>> Yes, he is.

We're in the very beginning stages of really talking about it, which I feel I feel behind because it's been almost a

year that we've had to cut ties with my dad, but it really does just kind of feel like the dust has now settled more with that and then with having our son,

but So, yeah, I we're just in the beginning stages of like really coming up with a plan.

>> Tell me this, Charlotte. He wasn't Your dad wasn't paying your husband's debt for law school, though. Just yours, right?

>> He was going He never paid any debt

because when all of this came out with my dad, we had just like maybe for 2 weeks and put on a

payment plan for the debt.

>> Okay. >> Cuz he had not yet >> Yeah, but was was the expectation that he was going to pay your husband's law degree?

>> He had said he would.

>> Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. So, it was the whole debt.

Cuz I was going to say is if he just promised your debt and yours is 10,000 of the 100,000, you know, I was going to ask why you didn't address But he's But But it was said out loud that it would even >> So, this wasn't on your radar and all of a sudden relationship's broken and now you've got 100,000 sitting in your lap to pay off. On top of the grief. And so, this is a lot. >> Yeah, it is sad.

>> And it's going to be it's going to be tight, but you know, less than 2 years, the baby won't remember it. It'll be a memory for you guys. Remember that time we worked our tails off for 2 years to get to a place of financial stability, and you will not regret the sacrifice you're making right now. I'll tell you that much.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

highest amount of money in a CD account that >> Ooh. >> a 2-year CD account. So I don't think we can't touch it for like another year.

But >> How much is in there?

>> Um like a little over 75,000.

>> Fantastic. Well, I would also look at what the penalties are for taking it out before it matures. Cuz if you're going to pay more interest in student loans than the penalty is, then it's worth cashing out.

>> Okay. >> And that gets you out of out of debt so much faster.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> What was that money earmarked for?

>> We didn't We didn't really have any sort of plan for other than just to kind of keep it in there.

And then maybe once it was done

divvied up more, we were probably going to buy another house or like sell the house we're in now, buy a little bit bigger house as our family grew. Um

we that money actually was

given to us from the death of my grandfather. So it was kind of unexpected. So we really didn't have much of a plan, and then it was like we got that. My husband started paying the student loan debt, and then everything happened with my dad. So we got to be

I haven't thought about it that much.

>> Okay. Got you. Well, the other part you have to grieve is, hey, we this was going to be like house upgrade money, and now it's paying off debt money, which is less exciting. And so >> But I would do that in a heartbeat.

>> I would look into that tonight to see what the penalties are. >> And then depending on how aggressive you guys want to move up in house, still look at cutting back some lifestyle and and saving up some margin and say okay, if we were to replenish this, um you know, you could do that in a year and a half still and get that money back, but I would go ahead and yes, I would >> is we're out of debt in 6 months. By the summer we're debt free. >> Yes, I would do that in a heartbeat and then you guys save your income and decide how quickly you want to save, how slow, but no one else is determining that for you.

We're going to just enjoy our life and >> Yeah, and maybe you can quit the part-time job after you get the emergency fund. >> no one's making you do it. Where student loan [music] you have to make this payment. >> Yeah, life is going to be on your terms soon enough and so far life has just been happening to you and everything's been unexpected and I hope soon you can start to get intentional and and happen to your life, Charlotte. We're rooting for you. Thanks for calling.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Shane is in Vegas up next. What's going on, [music] Shane?

>> Hey y'all, thanks for having me on. It's an honor to be speaking to you today. >> Thank you. How can we help today?

>> Um Yeah, so uh favorite topic for you guys, money and family. Uh long time ago, when I was 18, took out uh student loans uh with the agreement with my father that they would pay uh until the balance is zero. Um 35

now. Balance is still in the mid 70s to uh

mid 70,000. >> gosh. >> What was it originally?

Uh it was over 120, so uh they've been paying it down. They've been making minimum payments. >> Well, that's a problem.

>> I I agree with you. Uh the issue I'm really having is that my dad is he's totally fine paying it.

He still makes the payments, but my mother constantly brings up the fact that they are paying for my student loans. Um feel like there's strings attached when at the very beginning they were never uh there was agreement but >> And there was a clear agreement, "Hey, we're we're going to pay these off. We can't We don't have the money to cover it, but take out the loan and we'll cover it." Is it in your name or their name or both? >> They're they're in my name.

Uh they have the money.

Um >> Are you married? >> Still financially I am married, yes.

>> Okay. So, when you guys are around your parents, how often is that?

How often do y'all see them? >> Uh we I mean, we we live on separate sides of the country, so once twice a year, but even in some phone calls, the topic still comes up. >> does she say? Like, what are her comments?

>> Um a lot of the times it's like revolved around like, "Oh, you just bought a truck. Like, that could have gone to the student loans." Or "Oh, you took a nice vacation. Like, why is that money?" But but but you know, going back to what I said, it's that was never part of the agreement, so I never feel uh obligated. Um but then, yeah, my father, he's like, "Yeah, I I don't care. I'm still paying them. It's whatever." So. Have you Do you push frustrated? >> Yeah. Do you push back on her at all?

>> I do. I try to keep it, you know, calm and and light, but uh my wife is really the one that gets frustrated by it cuz she feels like >> you were married cuz I feel like I would be like "Oh my gosh." See, this is the issue with the student loan stuff is these parents are like, "Sure. Go take out whatever you want to go take out." And you're 18, Shane, right? And "Sure,

you sign it." I mean, yeah, you're 18, you're an adult, so yes, you have some responsibility in the sense of like, you chose to make that decision, but you also had fully functioning adults in your life that said, "Yes, we and we would pay for this." So, I almost would have a very kind but a very clear conversation with her um around the boundaries of these comments because it starts to erode the relationship. >> I'm guessing it already has.

Yeah. Doesn't sound like >> Definitely the holidays are fun. >> I mean, that's why you're calling, right? This is your This is >> Yeah, a lot of tension. >> Yes, okay. >> Okay. >> Um so, yeah, I mean, I would I would tell her. And I and I would be very kind, but I would be very very clear.

And and just and to be honest with her and say, "You know, Mom, there have been multiple comments made." I mean, you could give her some examples.

And the truth is, when I was 18, you all told me that you would take them out and you would pay for this.

And I'm I'm holding y'all to that word.

I mean, that that's what was said. If something has changed and you and Dad agree on a different plan, you're I'm happy to have a discussion with you if that's the case. But, that's not been the discussion. And so, I need you to stop stop making these comments. They're passive-aggressive and and it's eroding our relationship. Can you do that, Mom?

And at that point, that's up to her. She's the adult that gets to make the decision if she wants to continue a healthy relationship. >> don't control y'all's money. That's your decision." So, this [clears throat] is now a marital problem they have of Mom disagrees with how Dad is handling a debt they agreed to pay.

>> That's a good point, too. Yeah. >> So, legally, yes, it's yours. They could stop paying today and it's going to come to you.

>> Mhm. >> Now, they haven't done that yet and I I'm glad that they're not intentionally trying to tank your life, but this might be another conversation with Dad of saying, "Hey, listen, you have the money. I don't care how much you could make in the freaking stock market. This is eroding our relationship, which is way more important than some spread you could make." And so, you can try to also influence him to, you know, sort of This would solve everything, wouldn't it?

If Dad just wrote the check, paid them off, and went, "Dude, it's been 17 years." >> I don't know. Would your mom be mad at that? >> Yeah. Uh who knows?

>> I'm sorry, can you say that again? >> She doesn't want any of their money to be used to pay for any more of your student loans. She's just done with this whole thing.

>> I It's hard to say. Um I know they're financially well off.

Like, they're My mom is retired. My dad, he makes fairly decent living and I know what their nest egg is and and uh liquid and retirement. So, I know like >> This is not a big part of their world.

>> It's not a big part of our of their world and uh you know, my wife and I, we make decent money. Uh so, like the payment could It would be totally fine for us to take on. It's just like >> Yeah. >> I need to know if I need to start paying my 80,000 student loans. >> Do you guys have the money to write a check and pay this off today?

>> Um not in like liquid assets. I mean, uh I could save a couple more months and it would be fine. But then it would just wipe out all of our liquid investments. So not my wife doesn't want to do that one.

So it would probably just be >> What I'm hearing is either way someone's going to be angry. And so that's the thing we have to make peace with is who do we want to upset? And the truth is you can't control how they react or respond.

>> That's fair.

>> So I don't I would just say if you wanted to this is the other option is you write a check and say mom I don't want this to come between us and destroy our relationship. Here's the freaking check to pay off the loans.

>> Yeah. >> That's the other option. >> I don't want to do this because of our relationship. Also because yeah because they've been they freaking have had this for almost 20 years. >> Yes. The immaturity is on mom's side at this point and dad's for >> And I'm sure they are exhausted but yes it's that. >> two decades man. >> When your when your 18 year old wants to go and take out $120,000 you say no. But no they didn't. They said yes we will we

will do this and take this on. And so they're the ones that have been dragging their feet. It's not his it's not your fault Shay. I mean you know what I mean to that degree because there was a deal.

There was a deal that was made.

Um yeah. So I'm sorry. That's so frustrating. But I would I I mean for the for your your wife's sake for your sake to like be in her presence and have passive aggressive comments constantly. Um >> Yeah. >> I would yeah I would be clear and and draw a boundary there. But again kind but clear.

>> And there might be an in between Yeah there might be a compromise where you go hey listen here's how much I'm willing to chip in to just >> Man you're really >> Here's the thing. >> the parents out but they're fine. If they were on food stamps like I >> No they have the ability to. And so that's where I go this is really between mom and dad because they have a disagreement. Mom should be mad at dad not the son.

Cuz dad's been dragging his feet for 17 years can I remind you?

>> No they both have.

>> Goodness gracious. >> That's fair. >> clearly mom doesn't have a vote when it comes to finances. >> feel like we're getting more and more of these. I don't know why. I feel like that we hear more and more parent >> resentment, guilt calls >> children with the student loan debacle in the mix of someone said they were going to pay, they're not paying, or they're paying and they're mad. This >> Or they're asking me for money again.

How do I cut them off? >> deal. Yeah, I mean it's just it's so much. Um so yeah. >> So can we talk about our parameters around family and money? I think it's a good reminder for everyone listening here, which is this: Never loan money to

family or friends. If you want to give money, make it a gift. And please don't go into debt for said gift. That's not really a gift.

We've heard that where they're like, "Well, mom got me a car. It has a loan on it. And so I, you know, I got to pay it, but she got me the car." >> Yes. >> And so it's fine if you want to give money.

>> the giving ends up becoming a pattern of enabling bad behavior, irresponsibility, that's another stop, right? We're not doing that. Um but they the gifts cuz I mean part of the show is about changing your family tree, right? Getting yourself in a position where you can change your life, you change your family's life, you change others' lives.

Like the ripple effect is beautiful and wonderful and we want that to be, but we also want the people on the other side that are receiving it to be in a healthy good spot themselves, to have their own dignity um as adults.

>> Ever. >> Please. Please. No co-sign.

We had a grandma who co-signed. That was last week on the show, I think. I know. She was like 92 and this guy's like, "Yeah, my grandma will co-sign." I was like, "Your poor grandmother." You're He's broke.

He's probably not going to be able to make the payment >> a co-signer cuz nobody trusts you to pay it off. >> Yes. >> And so what happens is you end up not paying it off and they go after poor grandma >> Yeah. >> who thought you were going to make the payments perfectly.

And she was just more of a, you know, more of a just like a nice thing. I'll sign it, but I won't ever have to deal with it. >> Right. Right.

>> Never think that. It will destroy a relationship and cause resentment. And so it's so much easier to just either put the boundary up and say no or give a one-time gift if it's going to be a blessing and you're not enabling terrible money decisions. >> You think just once for the rest of their life?

>> Well, not like an ongoing hey, I'm going to give you a thousand bucks every month forever. >> The pattern. Yes. [music] >> You know what I mean?

If you reward bad behavior, that's when it turns into entitlement. >> Agreed.

Why would I go work harder?

That's silly. This is the Ramsey show. >> [music]

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>> Matthew is in Denver up next. Matthew, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. How are you all doing this afternoon? >> We're doing great. How can Rachel and I help? >> Um so, I just uh I was going to get some advice. Um I was My wife and I are looking uh taking a $100,000 loan from my father

uh to buy an eight-unit rental property.

Um and I just kind of wanted to see what you guys thought um based on the details of the property and everything else.

>> Uh yeah, let's hear it cuz not not uh

super excited about this.

So, now to taking out a loan but from your father-in-law but um yeah, give me your your numbers. What are you thinking? >> Okay, so uh I got a $900,000 property um

with a 3% interest owner finance.

Um and so, it's going to be $100,000 of

my money, a $100,000 loan from my dad.

And then um the owner is willing to do $100,000 of in-kind money is what she

calls it. Um and that uh includes

repairs and improvements on the property uh for a period of 10 years.

Um and then she's also willing to mentor my wife and I uh for 2 years uh the

first 2 years that we own the home. And then at the end of the 10 years, it's going to be a a balloon payment. And I know this kind of goes against a lot of uh the Dave Ramsey uh uh I guess principles, but I wanted to see what you guys thought cuz I I think it might be a good opportunity for us to kind of get a business and and start moving that way. >> Do you guys own a home currently, a primary home?

>> Uh yes, we do own a home currently and we have uh no debts or payments at all besides that house. >> Oh, besides the house. What's left on that mortgage?

>> Uh, 190,000.

>> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Uh, we make around 135,000 uh and there's a lot of room for growth there. >> Cool. How did this idea come up of the eight unit and then your dad loaning you the money? Who brought it up? >> Um So, we met this woman um

at a graduation um and we we had owned a a single family home investment property and we got to talking to her and she and I kind of told her that we're we're real estate investors and she's like, "Oh, well, I got a deal for you.

>> Sounds like it. Um so, she knows your dad and was like, "Well, if he ponies up a hundred, you pony up a hundred, we can make this work." >> Um she's >> mentor you for two years from Arizona.

>> Yeah, she's kind of Kirk Tiller related to my wife uh not by blood or anything,

but uh >> Matthew, I just see 85 ways this could go sideways.

It's not It's not worth it. It's not. I mean, from the way the loan's structured with the balloon happening in 10 years um all this borrowing from family

uh going into a $900,000 investment property um that you don't have the money for.

You got I mean, do you How much do y'all have saved? How much cash do do you and your wife have?

>> Um so, I have $100,000 for the down and

then we have about $250,000 in the markets right now. >> Okay, why don't you Why do you have to borrow money from your dad? Take your money out if you're going to do the deal. I wouldn't do the deal, but don't don't borrow money from your dad. You have $350,000.

>> Okay, got it. And I get I don't know. I guess my thought is if I could keep it in the markets and make 10% whereas I could pay my dad back uh 10% on the money that he loaned the company.

>> I mean, you're needing the stars to align with this. You need eight tenants who pay on time with no risk there. You need to pay back You need to make money in the markets. There are so many variables here that could go wrong.

>> If all of this just tanks, you're screwed. Right? If the market tanks, you're screwed. >> Yeah.

>> You can't find renters, you're screwed. If the market goes down As as Dave always says, if if Trump burps and the market you know goes down >> happened. He was like, "We're going to invade Greenland." The stock market got spooked. And so you just don't know.

>> What I mean, yeah. >> But here here's the parameters that are underlying. >> to you. >> Yeah, the underlying principles are we never recommend you buy investment property until your primary home is paid off.

Always recommend paying cash. And number three, we always tell people never borrow money from family.

And so there's a lot of principles here that are being violated all for the sake of a quote-unquote good opportunity.

>> I I'm going to say this Matthew and I don't want it to be rude but you guys had one single residential investment property, correct? You and your wife. >> That is correct. >> And you tell this lady that you're you're you're real estate investors.

Um which I guess technically you are.

You have one investment property. And I think she saw ding ding ding, here's my ticket out. I got to get out of this horrible situation I'm in cuz my husband's sick. And again, I don't think it's like ill will on her end.

I just think she thought, "Oh my gosh, here's a guy who's probably doing all these like deals that you see on TikTok and he's a got eight VRBOs and here You know what I mean? And he'll do it. I bet I bet I bet I could offer him this and we'll we'll structure the loan where it works for him so I can get out of here. That's what she saw.

I mean, honestly, she didn't list it.

to some, you know, um investment firm that has, you know, 18 different investors around the country that go and buy property. You know what I mean? Like no, no, no. She found you and your wife and you thought you hit the hit a great deal and you hit a horrible deal. Not good. Not good.

>> Okay. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the advice. I really do. >> Not what you wanted to hear, I know, but [snorts] >> Matthew. So, listen, what you and your wife did though with I would pay off your house but I I'm all about I think I think having investment properties is amazing. My husband and I do. My fam I mean, I think it's I think it is great.

You just have to start slow. Like the first one Winston and I got, this was gosh, probably 10 years ago. It was a short sale condo in this like kind of like sketchy part of Nashville, but it's what we did it but we got a deal. We saved up. You know, we we bought it for really not a lot. Had to go do a a lot of work in it.

We sold it probably gosh, seven years later

when Nashville was on And it was amazing. I was like, this is great, right? Like you have to start slow.

Start small. Don't start with a million dollar eight unit property cuz you're about to take on all those people. Like that's going to be a huge headache. Like get some things under your belt. Start small and then start to work your way up, which is not as flashy, not as exciting, but it is it is peace. That is

a peaceful way to do this and not create chaos cuz you guys are setting yourself up for chaos and maybe to ruin a relationship with your dad if this goes bad, too. >> I've rarely seen it where they go, "Yeah, borrowed money from dad. It worked out perfectly. Paid him back and he was happy. I was happy." Uh usually it becomes, "Well, dad wants a piece of the pie now. He wants his money back cuz he needs to retire.

>> That's it. >> Which means I need to sell the property. Oh, and he wants appreciation. And so he wants that too on top of his 100,000, on top of interest, and it just always ruins >> Yeah, or he gets sick and he needs 100 grand back, you know, and I don't know.

There's just a There's a lot a lot of things. >> So I would I would hold off and just go slow and >> And it's not exciting. It's not exciting, but it's worth it. >> What is the 250 invested for? What is that earmarked for?

>> Um what What do you What exactly do you mean by like what am I saving that for?

>> Yeah, you said you had 250,000 in the markets. I'm guessing that's not a retirement, just in a brokerage account?

>> Uh yes, it's a mix of IRAs and then just

the uh personal brokerage account and that's just uh saving for retirement is kind of uh what I've been doing and kind of learning to trade it on my own and with the help from a financial investor and stuff, so. >> Okay. >> That's kind of >> to say, if you have liquid money that is really earmarked for nothing and you want to take it and throw it at the house, the non-retirement portion, you could do that and speed up the process.

Free up a mortgage payment and then you can stack cash fast.

>> savers. So then yeah, stack up some cash and get 300 grand here, you know, like save that over the next 5 years or whatever your income is, and then go buy a rental property with cash. And that's it. You know what I mean? Like you can You can do this slow walking it, but do it in the right order. Pay off the house. If you have the money, I would pay off your primary home. And Yeah.

>> is just is >> is reducing risk and right now we're just adding more [music] and more and more risk and your first real investment property to be a $900,000 eight-unit just feels like we're biting off a lot here. >> I mean, for the purposes of helping this woman >> move >> Right. >> with her ailing husband. >> Yeah, I mean, eight different families, eight different situations. I mean, that's a part-time job right there of what you just [music] signed up for as a landlord. So there's not passive income.

It's a lot of work, a lot of work.

>> [music]

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Miriam, how can we help?

>> Hi, it's a pleasure to speak with both of you. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Uh my question is about life insurance.

Um we pushed off getting life life insurance way too long, and I thought it would be pretty straightforward. Um the Well, I wanted to call Vanguard Insurance, and I wanted to meet two people who kept bugging him that they wanted to sell me life insurance. So, I said, "Okay, we need a 20-year term." And I I think we got a little screwed by them cuz we ended up getting a policy which they said was 20-year, but it's extendable 20-year.

>> Oh. So, after the 20 years, you can re-up at the current premiums for your age, which is going to be two to five times higher, probably.

>> when we got the package, which was after, you know, we have 30 days to cancel or whatever, but it's past the 30 days either way. Either way, I'm going to replace it, but it goes up even before the 20 years, I think. Like, there's a whole chart. It's hard to understand. I >> Yeah. >> I'm not really sure. >> Who'd you get it through? What company?

>> I've Northwestern. >> Oh, boy. Okay. You've said [laughter] enough, Miriam. I would cancel yesterday. It's not a scam and they're they're a company who does all kinds of financial products, but likely what happens, here's what I've seen. It's mostly young guys right out of college who want some sales experience and they sell the scummyest life insurance products to unsuspecting victims like their family and friends.

>> Right. Yeah, well, that's accurate. >> So, I'm not dogging the whole company.

But that's that's my brother and same thing happened to my own brother, right? Some guy from college reaches out, "Hey, man, how you doing?" And so, I would get out of this and I would contact our friends at Zander cuz they're not going to sell you extendable term life insurance. Term life insurance by definition is >> Okay. >> I So, I just wanted to know like based on the should I take 20 year, should I take 30 year?

They said that Dave recommends a child rider, which I never heard on the show, so >> They Hold on. Hold on.

>> No, no, no, no. Zander. Zander.

>> For what reason?

>> Oh, I don't know. I have four kids. They That's That's why. I I never heard it from him. That's why I called cuz I I wanted to understand. And then somebody else I'm getting very overwhelmed that somebody else told me that we should really do a disability rider. I don't >> No, there's there's a lot of riders.

When you hear the word rider, just think gimmick. And so, all you need is term life insurance. 20 year should be enough and here's how to think about it. In 20 years time, you should be self-insured if you follow the Ramsey plan. You become debt free, stay debt free, you have the emergency fund, you invest in retirement for 20 years, you pay the house off in 15 years if you follow our parameters of a 15 year mortgage, and all of a sudden, you don't need the life insurance anymore once the term expires.

So that's the goal. And if it needs if you need 25 years to get there, then you get 25.

>> Well, and that's that's what I'm asking.

How do I we're in baby step three B. We live in New York, so that's taking a while. Um I have four kids, one on the way and I'm not done. My husband and I are both from very large families, so I'm thinking my kids are not going to be out of the house in 20 years.

Should I go longer? Should I look for something in between?

To add? >> Yeah, I mean you could see how much it is because are you guys in good health, would you say? >> Yes. Yeah, yeah.

>> Cuz that's the great thing about term life is it is so inexpensive. And then when it comes up for time for renewal, you can always, you know, go back through and recheck things and make different decisions, right? >> get additional policies, you know, in a few years. Now it's going to be more expensive as you age.

them, get the math on it, and always stick to term no matter what. Just term.

And if it's 15, 20, 25, that's fine. And always get 10 to 12 times your annual income or your husband's annual income.

And both of you should have your own individual policies. >> Yeah. And and you're you're saying not 30, 25 should I shouldn't go more than that?

>> 30 feels aggressive. If the kids are still in the house at that point, then that's on them and you guys will be multi-millionaires by then. >> to say cuz I mean in yes. >> You'll be set for sure.

>> In 25 years, yes, Miriam. If you guys are investing 15% of your income, if you guys are working to pay everything off, I'm like it's just that continues to build. That's where you build wealth. And in 25 years, what that's going to end up being is a lot of money.

And so for the kids that are in the home, maybe it's one or two of them. They're going to have plenty of money.

Um you know, and not needing your financial support. >> a village at that point to take care of each other. So I'm less worried 25 years from now about what life looks like if you follow the plan.

>> Exactly. Okay, I I can ask one more quick question? >> Sure. >> About what when your income goes up, you're supposed to have 10 to 12 times your income. So, then do you buy another plan in in term with for the difference?

>> You can >> You can get a small policy for the difference. I wouldn't cancel the one you currently have and get a new one. So, you can always add a small >> would you look at that? Like in a year if it goes up you get another policy >> It's a parameter.

So, if you get a $5,000 raise, you don't need to go out and get an extra policy. >> Right. >> But, if you get a substantial raise and your lifestyle's change and your expenses have changed dramatically, that's when you go, all right, we need to re-look at this. >> Yeah, it's about every four to five years I would re-look.

I mean, for me. >> Exactly. >> Um so, yeah, but I'd say yeah, every every four to five years. I'm trying to think when we started cuz we just re-upped our life insurance.

Maybe like two years ago or something.

Um cuz we still get it.

>> Oh, yeah. >> I like having it, you know, even if we're debt-free and everything. There's a part of me that I'm like eh, we're young and healthy and it's cheap. And that's the great thing about term.

>> what it costs, I mean, it's a great policy to have, especially if you're term. >> ago. >> Yeah. Yeah, so um yeah, so anything fancy around it, any words you don't understand, Miriam usually is like a that's a red flag to me.

They're adding things on. Uh if it's a young guy that's in the situation and they're and it's all these weird terms again that they're selling you this package, probably not a great deal. Like the simpler the better. Just a 20-year 25-year >> always want prey on your emotions and the what ifs and well, a good parent would do this.

You really want to take care of your kids. >> don't need life insurance. Only you, you know, I mean, all of it. So, >> It's meant to do one thing, which is replace income.

>> Yeah. >> Your 2-year-old is not bringing, you know, money into the house here unless she's like a Gerber baby making bank.

So, uh you're asking really good questions, Miriam, and I love that you're taking care of your family in this way. Most people are going, what the heck are they talking about? I don't have any insurance. And so for everyone out there listening, you need term life insurance if anybody depends on you, a spouse or children. And it's very affordable and you can call our friends at Zander and get this done today. 800-356-4282

or go to Zander.com. They'll take care of you. Rachel and I both have our policies through Zander for our families and it's well worth the money. >> And Zander's great cuz they go and shop >> They're brokers. >> Yeah, all different companies versus again, like a Northwestern, right? To pick on them a little bit, but it's like okay, it's just one or Aflac. It's just one Do you know what I mean? I guess their car. I don't know if they do life. >> They probably do it all these days.

>> But yeah, it's not just the one company that you're getting the price from. What Zander does, they shop all the companies to get you the best price of what you're looking for. >> a lot of these now have no medical exams. Like if you're under, I don't know, a million dollar policy, you don't have to go get the medical exam or you know, so that's that's always nice.

Not have to get >> convenience.

Uh and >> Uh and it's a good idea to get healthy before you shop for life insurance. Cut the bad habits. >> thinking about your diet the night before your blood gets drawn. >> Yes. It's like cramming for a test. You're like, well, if I don't eat bad today >> drink a lot of water. Be as >> You're [laughter] like Googling, how fast will my blood work be good if I cut

sweets? >> Yeah. >> That's a good reminder. >> Yeah, and I think those are some of the saddest calls, George, of um you know,

um we'll get, you know, widower widower or a widow calling that their spouse passed away and they have kids and they're trying to pick up the pieces. So, you know, whether they're trying to find a new job or starting to work cuz they were a stay-at-home parent or trying to figure out child care for the kids so they can go to work. I mean, it's just it and and if there is no life insurance, >> Yeah. >> then they are they have nothing, you know, they're just stuck with what it is.

And so it is >> part is a lot of people think they're covered cuz they're like, well, uh he has one through work. And I go, well, how much is that policy?

I was like, well, great. We can get by for maybe 6 to 12 months.

>> Yeah. >> But what about after that? And so the goal here is if you make $50,000 and you get a $500,000 policy, you could invest

that money and it would be able to spit off $50,000 with the average return in the market. And so that's the goal of getting 10 to 12 times your income is because the stock market historically has done about 10 to 12%. And so that's the reason for life insurance. That's the mechanics of it and it doesn't take long.

I know it feels like well, I'm going to die sooner if I get life insurance. No, you're going to die regardless. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in 50 years, but either way you need to sleep better knowing that your family's protected.

>> [music]

>> You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel joined by Ramsey personality Rachel Cruze. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Katie is in South Carolina up next.

Katie, what's going on?

>> Hey, thank you guys so much for taking my call. Um I hope you all are well.

>> We are.

What's going on with you today? How can we help? >> So, I mean, I I might sound crazy for saying this, but I just can't shake the feeling that we're charging a little bit too much money. And I guess I'm looking

for a way to justify my count. Or, you

know, try and figure out how to process, you know, how fast do we want to grow and how should we scale our company.

>> Okay, so we is this your husband?

>> Yeah, my husband started this business before we got married and I kind of joined him after that. We've been in business for about 11 years.

>> Cool. What kind of business is it?

>> It's a a trucking company. So, we we do some hauling. >> Wow, that business has really taken off, hasn't it? >> Yeah, yeah. We're really blessed.

>> Uh, so last year we brought in 290,000

sales and then after, you know, paying everyone and expenses, we profited about 120,000.

>> And that's as a household. So, that's your household income for the year? >> So, that's not the household income.

Most of that stayed in the business. Um,

you that that was just what the business profited. We paid ourselves about 50,000. >> Oh, wow. And that's together. That's total that came to you guys. Wow. All right.

>> Correct. Yes, sir. >> So, where did this price hike come into play and why?

>> Yeah, so we our pricing is very simple.

We've just matched what the competition is around us. We don't have a lot of competitors. Um, and you know, we're one

of the few people that do our specific type of hauling in our area. Um, so we

really have just always kind of matched what market price is. But I'm kind of looking at case-by-case, job-by-job and

realizing that the range of profit we have on each job is is super wide. So, sometimes it's you know, a small amount of profit, but a lot of the time it's quite large. Um, so I'm just kind of,

you know, when I brought up the idea of restructuring how we do our pricing and, you know, taking it from super simple to trying to be a little bit more specific so we can afford to help some people that usually say, "Oh, no, you're too expensive." Well, you know, if you're willing to make 40% profit on that job instead of 60, maybe that person would have said, "Yes." Um, >> Do you feel like you need more business?

Do you feel like you need more business? >> Well, so our work is very seasonal. The demand in season is so high, we can't keep up with it. But then during the off-season, it's not really a thing. Um,

so we, you know, we obviously slow down a lot and that's we're blessed that, you know, able to work very full-time

overtime 6 months out of the year is enough for us to live off of and then the rest of the time we can work on side gigs or spending more time with family, which is great. Um, so yes and no. We definitely don't need more work. We can't handle it in the summer, but the idea is obviously to grow so we can do even more during the summer, if that makes sense. >> Got it. So, is there a moral profit

margin in your mind that is like anything above this >> [laughter] >> is immoral to charge?

>> Well, I don't have a specific number.

It's more the concept of, you know, is it is that even a valid question?

>> Well, I mean, look, if you look at prices, is his reasoning, "Hey, everything's gone up. Everything costs us more. Fuel, insurance, maintenance, tires, labor, permits." Like that's all gone up. And so, it's not like he's tripling the cost just for fun.

And you guys are bringing home 50 grand as a household. >> a specific type of service that you said there's not a lot of competition and so you guys are in high demand. >> Yeah, I mean, >> And not a lot of supply, which means you can charge more and it's not like you're hurting anybody. They're happily paying you for this service that they can't do themselves.

>> Yes, the more I say that loud the know the more I know I'm kind of making my husband sound like a superstar in business, but you know, I just always back to I always go back to the few cases where people have asked us for help and you know, we give them our price and they're like oh, you know, that's way over budget and in my head I'm saying I really know I could have helped this person out. I could have met their needs. >> Sure.

>> Yeah, I hear you. So I wonder if because

you know, even here at Ramsey for instance, like we give stuff away a lot.

Whether it's tickets to a live event, books, you know, and some stuff it's like very nice coaching, you know, one-on-one coaching that will pay for people's sessions. Like >> Yeah. >> we will have life with an open hands business-wise, but we're only able to do that because we are making a profit on the other end that is feeding a thousand people. Well, that work here and their families and all of it, right?

So So there there is room to be if there is room to be generous, I would talk to your husband about that and say hey, you know, and I hate to this sounds so like legalistic and I don't mean to be this like for formulaic about it, but I don't know, Katie.

You know, are there four times that you can say and you guys agree on that like hey, I just feel something in my spirit that I'm supposed that I'm supposed to extend some grace to them and help them.

>> Yeah. >> Um and so that way you're at least in the practice of doing that when you feel led, but it's not changing the whole structure of the company cuz I don't feel like you guys are doing something wrong or immoral to George's point and >> Okay. >> you're you know, you got you guys are bringing home 50k a year out of this thing. >> from being greedy here.

>> yeah. It's not like you're making you know, 5 million and you're like oh my gosh, I feel like we're overcharging everyone." >> Most of your customers are making more than you. And so, that's the other thing to think about here is you guys also need to put food on the table and you have financial goals and there's nothing wrong or immoral about making money. Have you screwed anyone over?

Have you lied? Have you cheated? >> Right.

>> And so, it's okay to say, "This is what our service is worth and we're going to charge it." And if you can't afford it, that's not a slight on them. It's just saying, "Hey, there's You need to go somewhere else that you can afford." >> Mhm. >> And so, I can't I can't get everything that I want. There's things that I can't afford and I don't expect that business to go, "Well, can you just bring the budget down for me?" This is not a charity.

If you want to start a charity, go for it. You can open a non-profit and do all kinds of charitable giving through that.

>> your idea of saying, "Hey, there's going to be a customer that comes our way that I just my heart grieves for them and I want to help them." And that's totally great to say, "We want to be generous to this many customers a year or when it comes up, we're going to give some people a break." But I don't think you also need to go, "Well, whatever your budget is, we'll try to meet that." Cuz that's how you will go out of business.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, I mean, any industry, Katie, there's going to be people that can't afford. You know what I mean? I'm like, I just think about I don't know. That's why I thought social media.

I'm like, people that, you know, need help with social media. There's people that do that as a job that that charge insane money cuz they're really good at it or people that are starting out and don't charge much and I you know, you couldn't afford, you know, the high end. That's okay. It's a service they provide and just cuz they charge a lot you know, doesn't make them a bad person.

It means they're probably really good at their job or they found this niche area of life, which is what you guys have done. So, >> Yeah. Yeah.

whole business model, but if there's moments to say, "Hey, I I want to be generous in this instance." You and your husband get on the same page with that and maybe that'll kind of help free up your spirit some in that generosity.

>> Yeah. Think about it this way. If you guys charge more and you make more, that gives you the freedom to be more generous when the time comes without it being a loss for you. And so I I think there's nothing wrong with that.

And listen, if you charge too much, you'll go out of business eventually. And so you'll know when the price is right, when you have the right amount of supply and demand happening. And so I'm I don't think anyone's right or wrong here. I think we need to meet in the middle and understand you want to be generous and he needs to pay the bills.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, I've got big news. The Ramsey Show is going on tour and this is your chance to be more than just a listener.

You get to be part of the show. So hear questions asked live and experience the kind of momentum that only comes from being in the room. We'll be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim

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>> CJ's in Phoenix [music] up next. Welcome to the Ramsey Show, CJ. How can we help?

>> Yes, how y'all doing? I thank y'all for hosting me. I wanted to get your input in ways to get out of my

debt with the credit cards, student loans, and a car loan.

And my house payment, I think when I first got the house, I was making a certain amount of money and I thought it was a good idea to get this two-story house, but per paycheck it's been the house payments, what I pay to escrow, and it's a whole whole check and the

other check >> Half my income, yes, sir. >> Your take-home pay, okay. >> My take-home. >> What do you make?

>> I make before taxes about 103,000.

>> Okay. Are you single?

>> I'm married. >> Married, okay. Is your spouse working outside of the home or at home?

>> Uh, she we just she just had a baby,

so she's not working currently.

>> Congrats, that's exciting.

>> Thank you. >> Okay, what's your total debt?

>> My total debt with the house payments, I

want to say it's >> Not including the mortgage, just give us the consumer debt. You said car loan, credit cards, >> student loans. >> About 110, 000. >> Woah. How much is the car loan?

>> The car loan is only 5,000. The the bigger one is the credit cards and the student loans.

>> What do those break out to be? How much are the student loans? >> The student loan is about 40,000 on the

government one and 5,000 on Texas loan.

I don't know I think that's the private one. >> Okay. >> And the credit card comes out to be

altogether about 60,000.

>> 60,000? How many credit cards do you have? >> It's um five. In between five it's the 60,000.

>> Okay.

Well, what did the 60K get spent on on the credit cards and like over what period of time was this?

>> It's been over the last I want to say it's about a year and a half where

um once I I the um the clinical coordinator position, um not that the pay I I came home as a full-time uh nurse and to get this position and I was doing a travel assignment, so I was getting paid more.

Um So, that's how I thought in my mind that I was just going to stay uh together and

for a good amount of time traveling, but then we had our first kid and I was you

know out of home and >> went down, but your spending stayed high. The lifestyle creep never went away and so you were just spending on the cards. >> So, the house payment uh was taking, you know, the one payment and to, you know, as a main other stuff.

>> Speak directly in your phone, CJ. We're having a hard time hearing you.

>> Oh, sorry. >> Okay. >> The uh So, uh once the house pay once I came full-time and the house payment was half of what, you know, half of one one pay

one check per month, um that's when I was, you know, I'll put it on the card and hopefully I'll, you know, be able to pay it and it would just >> Are you putting the mortgage on the card?

>> Not not the mortgage, it was just uh everything else was on the card.

>> Okay. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Oh, because you spent one full paycheck on the mortgage and then anything else lifestyle just went on the card.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. >> Are you and your wife ready to have a very different life?

>> Yes, sir. We we talked about it and we always listen to the show and we always just talk about we need to do better and the with the credit cards uh most of them are through through Chase Bank and I did call to tell them that I

can't pay anymore, so they put me on on on the plan. But even with that is about just Chase alone is about 1,200 that I'm paying. Um

>> Okay, with with everything, CJ, with with with your paid twice a month with the mortgage, the credit card bills, your regular utilities, I mean everything.

I'm assuming you're coming up short every month. If you stayed current with all of your debt. >> I do come short. I did pick up this year I did pick up a home health job which usually it's about four or five hundred dollars more per month. And that gives

me the ability like that 500 to pay >> need. To stay to keep your head above water. But but that's it though. There's nothing extra to be throwing at this debt to get out of it. It's just that's just to pay the minimum payments. >> Yes, ma'am. That that's it just month to month and you know what it's >> Yeah. How many hours are you doing that extra job?

>> Uh that's per patient.

>> Okay. >> Um right now it's I have about three four patients. Sometimes I'll tell them my days off and they'll try to give me you know PRN uh jobs to just go see a

patient but if they don't come often it's just >> It's not reliable. >> Yeah, so I mean that's a good thing to have cuz I feel like it pays well but I would have another side hustle because yeah CJ it's something it's it's got to shift from the income perspective. I think you guys need to cut your lifestyle if you haven't already.

>> Yeah, no eating out, not no investing, no saving. All we're doing is trying to pay down the smallest debt. So take that smallest credit card that you have and we're going to knock that out or if it's the car loan that's the smallest debt or the student loan we're knocking that balance out first and make minimums on the rest. So we're going to try to stay current on all the bills and throw extra at the smallest debt we have.

That's called the debt snowball method.

>> So either be that $5,000 private student loan or your $5,000 car or if there's a if there's a credit card smaller than 5,000. You're going to attack that first. >> Okay. >> Is there anything you could sell to come up with some cash to speed this up?

>> Everything else we I've looked and it would just be just minimal stuff shoes but you know it's minimal.

>> the car worth? You said you owe five on it. What is it worth?

>> It's worth about 3,000. It's a Jeep, but

the miles it's I have I think right now

it's about 155,000 miles on it.

>> Um how long ago did your wife have the baby?

>> Uh a couple months ago.

>> Okay. You know, I would have a goal for you guys cuz again, $500 a month shifts.

You know, you guys it it it's so helpful. So, I'm thinking for her what could she do from home to make 500 bucks a month? And that could include selling stuff. She could make a part-time job of selling your shoes, CJ. Making some money. You know,

but for real, like what what what can she do? And she doesn't have to start today, but maybe you guys look up and say, "Okay, you're going to start working CJ extra.

You're cutting lifestyle.

And then we're going to look up and I don't know, I'm making this up, June, she's going to start doing something through the year bringing home an extra five to a thousand 500 to a thousand dollars. Like I think as much income as you guys can get in rolling in, which is going to be exhausting. It's going to be so hard.

It's so frustrating. But that's going to make you guys get out of debt that much faster because it's not fun, right, during this process of sacrifice, but

you guys either have to do it really intensely and just go all in

or you kind of just dabble around the edges and you guys will keep it around for another four to five years.

>> Cuz here's the truth. If we can if we continue at this pace and you can only throw 100 or 200 bucks at this debt, you're going to be in debt for the rest of your life. And so that's why we're saying six-figure debt, you need a massive six-figure income to pay this off in a reasonable amount of time. Two, three, four years.

That's the goal here of intense sacrifice, not 20 years of just trying to make our way through and make the minimum payments while the interest racks up. So, that's why we want you to have a sense of urgency to get this income up. And you've got a lot of skills that are very valuable. And so if you can go make 150 grand, 200 grand, and she makes another 50 grand, even if the kids are in daycare for a season, they will survive.

>> Okay. So getting our income up.

>> That's the key. Getting expenses down as much as we can, but even then, your income has to go up in order to knock this out quickly.

>> Yes, sir. >> So hang on the line, CJ. I'm going to send you a copy of my book Breaking Free from Broke along with every dollar.

That's our budgeting tool. And you and your wife tonight, you're going to lay out, here's our next paychecks, here's all of our expenses, here's our plan to make the most of every dollar. >> Yeah, and um we always caution against

moving. I mean, honestly, cuz it's such a big expense. It's It's like one of the biggest things to uproot your family out of a home. But I would consider it's half of your income. And unless your main job you're

going to see significant raises in the next 1 2 3 years.

Um if there's not, and it's looking pretty plateau I mean, golly, that's an extra $2,000 if you get it under that to that 24 that 25%. >> [music] >> That's an extra two grand a month that you're, you know, that you could save um if you guys change your housing situation, which I know is that's a big ask. >> But it changes the whole timeline. And you guys can become homeowners again once we're not broke.

But right now, that 50% mortgage is it's eating your lunch and hurting your ability to pay down the debt.

We're going to get you those resources.

We're wishing you guys the best with this debt payoff.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show, whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Whyrify. You don't have to stay stuck in defaulted private student loans forever. Whyrify helps borrowers take back control with affordable refinancing options that actually work. Learn more at whyrify.com/ramsey.

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Not available in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Lucy in Oregon. She said, "I'm concerned about being a target of deed fraud if we pay

off our mortgage. If we keep our current mortgage, the bank would have to notify us if someone tried to take out a second mortgage to steal our equity. We're both in our 70s. I am retired and my husband plans to retire soon. The balance on the mortgage is $48,000 and we have the funds to take out of our 401k to pay it off. What should we do?"

>> Wow.

Okay. Well, I mean, deed fraud, it does exist, but I'm not going to be so paranoid that I keep my mortgage to do it. >> Because you can always, you know, if God forbid that happened, it's not super common. Uh more when you're like, you know, buying homes and you should have the deeds, you know, good and I don't know, there's some things you can do, but >> We got owner title insurance, which protects you against that.

So, if you're worried about it, I would look into one of those policies. >> Yeah, to do that. >> up with your county and get deed alerts as well.

protect against that. >> also, you know, if it did happen, God forbid, you're not going to be on the line for it because it's fraud. And so, you can go through the bank and, you know, maybe some, I don't know, lawsuit stuff.

But at the end of the day, you're not going to have to owe it because it's fraud at that point.

>> Yeah. So, I wouldn't I wouldn't be so worried that I avoid paying my house off. That's wild. Um you're in your 70s.

The There is a much more risk with this mortgage hanging around than there is that you guys experience deed fraud. >> Yep. >> So, I wouldn't worry about that. I would just pay it off and do your due diligence to stay protected, you know, freeze your credit, check the records with your county regularly, get the owner title insurance if you can, all of that good stuff.

But it's a good question and it's a valid concern.

Alan is in Colorado up next. What's going on, Alan?

>> Thank you for taking my call. I have a question about a 529 account that my wife and I have for our son.

When he is finished with college, which is just a couple years down the road, there'll be approximately 120,000 left in the 529 account. >> Oh, wow. >> Way to go.

>> Yeah, yeah, it's pretty strong.

Um I have an opinion on what to do with it, but I was just curious to get, you all's take. >> How old is the 529? When did you open it?

>> Oh, boy. Um our son is 20.

So, let's see, 20 years ago.

>> Oh, great. I was going to say there's the with the new Secure 2.0 Act, you can roll over up to 35 grand if it's been

open for 15 years. You know, you can do that periodically. You can't do all 35 at once, but up to the Roth IRA limit, you can start funding that. So, that's one option. >> Yeah, do you have Do you have other kids, Alan?

>> Uh no, we don't. Just one. >> Okay. It's just this, yeah. Well, if you do that, you know, that's 35 oz. You got about what? 85 or so, 95 left. Um

>> You said you had a plan already. I'm curious as to what you wanted to do.

>> So, we my thought is is keep it keep the

529. It's we're we're the guardian of it. Put it in his name. He's an adult now. But, don't let him touch it. Just have it be there so it's generational.

You know, when his kids are ready to go to college, that's going to be a pretty large sum.

When his kids' kids get ready to go to college, it'll be astronomical.

Um it's something that you could really just just leave leave.

>> That's true. A lot of people don't think about that. It becomes like an endowment basically for your own family.

Generational wealth that no one ever goes into debt for education. And that's personally what I'm doing. A lot of people go, "Well, I don't want to overfund it cuz what if they don't go to college?" And I go, "If I overfund it, they're going to love old old great great grandpa George for setting up this 529 many moons ago." And can I do some

math for you? Your kid is 20, right?

>> He's 20. >> So, let's say he has a kid at what? 25?

Is that fair?

>> Um it's optimistic, but sure. >> Okay. Should we go 30? Is that more more realistic? >> That's Yeah. >> Go 30. Plus 18 years, that kid then grows up. >> So, your son will be 48 when your grandson granddaughter goes to college theoretically. How much would be in the account? >> 20 to 48, if you just left let's say 90 grand in there, right?

>> Didn't do anything. >> You never contribute another dime. You'd have 1.4 million dollars when he's 48. I

hope that's enough to cover college at that point.

>> And something too I was thinking is even if his kids don't want to go or do go and there's extra, at 65, correct me if I'm wrong, you can start using that for his own retirement with with no penalties.

>> Yeah, there's a lot of stipulations with a 529. That and even if he used it in

before then, you know, he'd pay the 10% penalty. But other than that, it's not like wasted money. It's just thrown thrown down the toilet. So, I think you're being very wise with this, and I love the idea of creating generational wealth. And a lot of people don't realize the definition of beneficiary family is pretty loose.

And so, siblings, nieces, nephews, future kids, yourself, your spouse, a grandchild, there's so many options here that you could bless someone with in your family.

>> Agreed. That's right. >> So, let's say you got a brother and they're like, "Hey, they didn't prepare, but the kid doesn't deserve to go into crippling debt just because of that. I'd love to transfer this to them." You can change beneficiaries at any time. >> that point, yeah.

>> Yeah, there's a lot of ways you can go with it. >> Yes, for sure. Well done, Alan. That's

usually not It's usually the opposite problem that we talk to people about.

So, >> It's like a parent plus loan. This is the exact opposite. So, I'm curious, how much money did it cost for your kid to go through school?

>> So, first off, something else, too. We We owe it to Dave Ramsey from like 2005.

You all have been a blessing to both my wife and I. Um so much so that we we actually taught many many FPU classes.

>> Thank you.

>> Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome.

So, this this 529 account, we actually

showed him how compounding interest works. We stopped investing uh in the 529 when he was a freshman in college at 150. That's about where it was at. He's gone through 3 years of school, and

it's at 159.

>> Wow. >> It's crazy. >> it was growing faster than you were withdrawing.

>> That's what I'm telling you. >> That's incredible. >> That's amazing. >> And it sounds like he went to a reasonably priced school, and maybe even got some other scholarships.

>> Yeah, a few scholarships. He wasn't You know, he wasn't Albert Einstein, but he did okay. And and uh yeah, it was a it was a state school, so 20 20 22 23,000.

>> Totally. >> That's incredible. >> Yeah. >> That's the dream, Alan. Well done. Well done. We just just applaud you. I mean, honestly, that is >> If you're in the family tree of Alan, you should be thankful right now. >> That's right. >> Pretty awesome. Thank you for the call.

That's That's a cool kind of case study in what actually happens when you do it right. >> Yes. >> And so, I always recommend get started early on that 529, even if it's 100 200 bucks 300 400 500. Now you're talking six figures in there by the time they're 18.

>> For sure. And the college conversation, I feel like it's been around a little bit changing, right? That college is changing. We don't know what it's going to look like. >> Are we all going to be YouTubers and AI's going to do all the work for us?

>> that's right. Like we don't know, but just remember, it's not stuck in there.

To your point, it's not like you're, you know, it's an insane amount. If you were to pull it out, just say like God forbid you're like, "Listen, we don't we don't need this at all, but we need the cash, so we're going to take the penalty." Okay, so then you do that, right? And you pay some of the penalty, but then you have your cash. It's not like you lose it completely, so >> Absolutely.

And people ask, "Well, what if I want to invest for my kid for something else other than school?" I say, "Great. Do the 529.

If you want to invest on top of that, you can just open a brokerage account in your name, a non-retirement account, and put money in there. I'm not a fan of putting the accounts in your kids' names because they legally then have access with the, you know, the UGMA UTMA. At 18, this kid might have 120 grand that's legally theirs. >> Mhm. >> That's frightening. I don't know if you know or any 18-year-olds, most of them

cannot be trusted with a $120,000 pile of money. Most adults can't be trusted with that. >> say. Yeah.

>> And so, I like the idea of me being able to control how much to give to that child for a, you know, a wedding or a down payment or a car, whatever it is to help them get a leg up. >> Yeah, delayed gratification for a 45-year-old 50-year-old it's probably a little bit more embedded than a 18-year-old. So, >> Yes. They need to Their prefrontal cortex is not yet fully fully there.

So, that's personally what I'm doing for my kids.

>> And your grandkids. >> And my grandkids. >> Great great great Uncle George. >> That's so weird to think about. But, I think Grandpa George, I'm going to settle into that. >> I love it. >> I'm going to be cranky, senile, and fat.

>> and uh like Steve Martin on Father of the Bride. >> Oh, that's a good one. I thought you were going George Bailey. A lot of good Georges out there movies.

>> Oh, it's a Wonderful Life. That's a good one, too.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Luke 14:11.

For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, [music] and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

C.S. Lewis said, "Humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less."

Poetry right there. That's good.

>> Great quote. >> All right, let's go out to Dave in Denver. What's going on, Dave?

>> Hey guys, thanks for having me. I'm I'm a loan officer for mortgages.

My question is, I often get clients mean they come to me needing a mortgage. Most often it's older clients in this situation.

And one spouse has passed away.

I have access to their assets and or see what they what they have, and it's a vulnerable situation.

And really they don't need a mortgage, what they need to do is sell some of their assets to get a to get a home to downsize.

I'm just looking for advice on how to bridge that gap with that and how to properly communicate that to them.

>> Mhm. So, you see this going to a dangerous place and you're like, "How do I help these people when my job is to lend them the money that they're approved for?" >> Yeah, and it's not overly dangerous sometimes, but like uh you know, they have one spouse and maybe all their whole life collecting these assets. And so, when I come along I say, "Hey, maybe you should look at selling some of these." That's kind of a well, you know, my husband or whoever put all this together his whole life, who are you to tell me to sell this kind of thing.

>> Yeah, you you feel like, "Hey, that's outside the boundaries of my job." But it's like your heart is aching for them to be like, "Hey, you really need to go do these things." >> Yeah, so I'm looking for words of wisdom on how to appropriately navigate that. >> Mhm. Well, I think you have the right heart.

Um but I think just starting with, "Hey, I want to make sure this house fits your life, not just your approval amount. And

as I'm seeing it here, I can see the assets over here, I can see what the mortgage payment's going to be. I think things are going to be tight unless you make some moves, make some sacrifices here. And you could offer, "Hey, one recommendation you could pursue is selling these assets, which could do X Y Z." >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And then it's just it's not you telling them what they have to do. You're just saying, "Hey, I try to I >> treat people how I want to be treated and I can see all of your information here and this is what I'm seeing." >> Yeah. And it's kind of a, you know, for them take it or leave it kind of thing, but it's almost for your conscience, you know, you you're like, "Man, I see this and I just want to say it out loud. Um but at the end of the day, they're going to be the ones, you know, making the decision.

And if they don't take that advice and they do something else, that's okay. That's, you know, they're adults and they can do that.

>> Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'm just trying to find out how I spread the the Dave Ramsey throughout my entire career.

>> Yeah. Love it. I love it.

>> cuz you know, like well, Dave says, but you can't it do that. It's not going to work. And instead, you you sort of get to the root of it. You say, "Hey, the families that I see thrive when it comes to buying a home, they have margin outside of their mortgage payment to live and to save and to have fun and go on vacations.

And right now, what I'm seeing with your payment, it's going to be a lot of your income taken up by this payment." And so, you can go, "Hey, here's the approval amount, but here would be a let's run the numbers and see what would be a comfortable amount." And then, you can kind of get to the principles without saying "Well, Dave recommends 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage." You know?

>> Yeah, Big Dave. I'm Little Dave. That's Big Dave. >> Little Dave, Big Dave. I like it. That's true. It's all Dave's advice. >> I mean, honestly, that's it's really It'd be so impressive and it would actually um garner a lot of trust, I would think, from the people you're working for.

Because in some situations, I'm assuming, you know, you're asking for them to pay less for a home, you know? And that's money out of your pocket, too, right? If they >> Less loan, less origination fee, less commission, all of it. >> Yeah, I mean, all of it.

So, there's something um I don't know, really trustworthy for you to say cuz you're not you're not doing it the other way to be like, "Hey, you should spend more here with me so I can make more." In some of these cases, it's it's the opposite. And so, um they shouldn't be offended by that, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Well, thank you. >> Absolutely. Thanks for actually being a you know, serving well and serving your customers well and being one of the good guys in the mortgage world. That's fantastic. Rachel, I've got a friend in the mortgage world and he, knowing what I do, he's like, "Dude, you would not believe the debt-to-income ratios people show up with." You're like, "This is bonkers. Like no one should be giving them this loan. And sadly, a lot of the banks you run it through the computer and it goes, yep, give them the loan.

>> That's fine. Yep, yep, we'll just do it.

>> And the bank doesn't always care about the reality of your financial situation.

>> cuz that's part of what got us into the biggest housing disaster in '08 is cuz of that kind of stuff, too. Lending people money out like candy.

>> I know. Oof. >> Keep on doing it, though. Oh my gosh.

>> All right, let's go out to Brian in Alaska. Brian, what's up?

>> Hi, can you hear me? >> Yes. Loud and clear. >> Okay, sweet. Uh so, I am uh in an interesting

situation um where I actually live in uh my dad's

second home or my parents' second home here in Alaska uh while my family lives out of state.

Um and I'm curious I'm I feel like I'm getting a smoking good deal on uh rent here. I you know, I just rent a room, but it's way cheaper than I can rent anything else in the area. How long should I stay here um saving up for a house? Um

it you know, how how long should I let this good deal ride as long as they're willing to give it to me?

>> That's a good question. Uh how old are you? >> I'm 28. >> 28, okay. Are you married?

>> Uh nope. >> You're single? Okay. Any debt? Consumer debt? >> Uh I owe $12,000 on an airplane. Um

but that's in the like a leasing company that I own. >> Okay. 12,000 on it. And that Is that it?

No credit cards or car loans?

Okay, great. And how much >> No credit card. >> And how much do you make a year?

>> Uh last year um so, I started a new job last year uh in 6 months, uh I made about 55,000 um and then this year uh for the for the whole year um I guess it's about 120 to 140.

>> Good for you. Okay, and how much money do you have saved?

>> Um I currently only have like $3,000

saved. Um >> Okay. >> How long have you been living at this at your dad's place?

Uh so I've been living here about 3 years. Uh I actually used to own half of it and then I sold out um my half to um my stepmom. Um that paid off a lot of my debt and and was able to give me a a down payment for this airplane that I I lease out.

>> Okay, so this airplane, is this a a business you have where you basically rent out the airplane?

>> Yep. >> Okay, what do you make from that? Is that on top of your 140?

>> Uh that that's uh completely separate.

So I make about $40 an hour every time it flies um and right now it's pretty much just all going back into the business for improvements for the for the airplane. >> Got it. >> And I'm paying the the principal for um

I got a loan from a friend of mine. Um it's basically zero interest. Um

that uh that I pay the principal out of my my personal funds and then what the airplane makes just kind of get circulated back into making improvements for the airplane. >> Okay, got you. Okay, so yeah, the whole living you know with parents or on their property or whatever, you know, for a period of time I'm totally fine with it. I think after a while um there needs to be a point that you you know go and you're on your own and you're living you know on your own doing your own thing.

So what worries me is and I know you just got this job 6 months ago you said, so I'm not going to harp on it too much, but you've had a you know you said I'm getting a great deal all this, but you only got $3,000 saved.

but then they don't take what they would have paid in rent or more of what they're saving and actually save it. You know, they end up spending it on restaurants and going on trips and stuff. And so then it ends up being this point of like, okay, you weren't using it actually to benefit yourself or to get you further financially. You were just using it for lifestyle in the moment.

So, if you're doing this, I want you to be really, really disciplined. And you make a great income. And so honestly, Brian, I mean you're a single guy, you're living in Alaska and basically no rent.

something crazy. Like you could bank so much money. Not only pay off this airplane, but >> You could have six figures saved up, you know, by the end of the year or maybe into a little into 2027.

>> really quickly. And I would I would use that for a down payment on a home cuz as soon as you can get something in your name building equity, that's the best route for you, Brian. So, I'm okay with it for a little bit, maybe a year or two, but I would be so disciplined in that to actually put that money in that savings towards your future and a future home for yourself. >> say, "Hey Dad, I'm going to be out on my 30th birthday." >> [music] >> And that's the plan.

And you go, "I'm going to save up like a madman until then. I'm going to live off a thousand or 1,500 bucks a month, and the other six, seven grand is going to go into savings for that [music] house." Build for your own future and independence, and you will not regret it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

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## 16. Break The Cycle And Build Wealth | March 30, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel joined by Jade Warshaw this hour. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Marie kicks us off in Washington D.C. What's going on, Marie?

Uh hello. Um I'm calling with what I hope is a very uh simple ask and recommendation from you guys. Uh I have a boyfriend of 4 years and he simply refuses to talk to me about his debt or

his uh financial situation.

How do I convince him to trust me enough to discuss with me? Yeah, it's been 4 years. I don't know if you can.

I don't think there's a simple answer here other than get to the root of what's going on here. Why Why is he Is he scared? Is there a trust issue?

Does he have baggage? What do you think is behind it based on what you know about him? So, I talked to him the other day about it just to so I can understand why maybe

he doesn't and he reminded me and I didn't remember this uh that I loaned him like $4,000 uh a

few years ago when he was purchasing his house. And he said I treated it like um a bank transaction.

And I was really stringent upon payback

um payments that he would have to make me. >> Uh huh. So, that Okay, that's good.

That means that he That means there is a reason and so there there's likely some shame there. If he's thinking about that often, thinking, "Man, she's strict.

Like, she's serious about her money." He's probably afraid that if he reveals what's going on with his money, that you'll be judging him and you'll Or that you'll leave him, abandon him. If he's not, you know, cut out for you, if he's not financially responsible enough for you. >> And by the way, is that true?

Um so, background on me and him, we're both retired military. He's a retired Marine.

I'm retired Army.

Um we both have good six-figure jobs, but on my side, um I'm going to pay off

my house in 4 years. I'm going to fully retire in 5, but he's not at that level

because, you know, he's he's divorced.

He has kids in college. So, I think

because he sees how financially secure I am on my end, >> Uh-huh. and how really I budget ever I budget down to the dime, right? So, how strict I am with my budget, that I'll expect him to

be that way and not understand why he

has the debt he has.

>> Well, is that true? Is my question. Now, it it's fair for you to say, I ex- like, have a set of expectations, like, "Yeah, I expect us to be a little bit more intentional." Or a lot bit more intentional. "I expect certain things." But, the question comes in, will you be judging him?

Will your tone be judgmental? Will you like, how will If he tonight says, "You know what, Marie, let's talk." And he divulges a lot of things that truly are shocking to you, how will you react? Because that if you can hold up the mirror and get a sense of who you really are and what you Do you know what I'm saying? And kind of do a little bit of self-analysis there, that can help your next conversation with him and say, "You know what, I can really see how you would be that way." And And maybe set him up and say, "Listen, I can't guarantee that I I I won't maybe have a reaction.

And just you guys really talk like emotionally aware people.

Mhm. Yeah, I I do think I would be judgy. I hate to say that, but it But that's honest. Yeah, my face He says your face is going to show it immediately and I was like, I I want to be able to be compassionate

and understand your situation, but I I'm going to have to get that initial how I feel out so we can develop a plan to get to get to to

assist him into getting better

and and help his finances. I think you I

think you being able to come into that and basically validate what he's already feeling is a really good first start. I also think more than I mean, I don't know George, but the bigger thing is why? Like what's this all headed towards cuz you've been dating for 4 years. Are you thinking that you're going to get married? Is this the next step before the proposal? Like why suddenly is all of this a big deal is is my biggest question. So, we want to move in together and buy a house together. I'm I'm I'm a divorcee

also, so I'm not sure on the marriage part. So, that's that's a scary question for me, but I do believe we can cohabitate, but I don't want to cohabitate and feel that it's it's it's not fair between us

both on our finances. That one person is

putting in more than the other. I want us to go in go in with everything being

equal and that we're we combine our households and and and be able to build that part of our life. >> Have you told him that?

Yeah, he knows. We're we've looked at houses and I'm like, once I pay off my house, I'll take everything I put down in this house, um the 700,000 I paid on

this house, I'll put it on our new house. The issue is if you do this through cohabitation, it's going to feel like he's a roommate and you foot the bill. And I would not recommend cohabitation before marriage for a thousand reasons, but especially in your case, it's going to feel like there's a power imbalance. Mhm. And I don't want that for him. So, what's going to happen over time? I'll tell you what happens 10 years from now, we fast forward. You're going to resent him, and he's going to feel a lot of shame.

Yeah. And it's never going to move forward. And so, financial transparency is emotional transparency. You can't have one without the other. And so, anything he's hiding now is just going to be magnified in marriage or if you cohabitate.

And so, I think you need to align on the values and tell him straight up, "I don't expect you to have the same financial brain and personality I do, but I do expect that we're aligned on financial values if we're going to combine our lives in any way, shape, or form." Agreed. >> That's not high standards. That's the baseline. I agree.

I I would caution you, Marie, and again,

you you might have a different outlook on this, and I, you know, I can keep space for that. However, I've done this show for a little bit of time, and I see this over and over. If you don't set fair expectations going forward, you're going to have a set of unrealistic expectations. And what I mean by that is you're setting yourself up in a scenario where you're viewing it as full commitment, but it's not really full commitment.

So, because of that, it's always going to feel a little imbalanced. He's probably always going to be wondering, like, "Is this enough or do I need to do more? Does this count or does this not count, right? Does it count for me to be able to go out and spend this money or and tell her or is that in some way wrong?

It's always going to be confusing. Yeah. >> I think at the root of it, I don't know him. I've never talked to him, but here's my guess.

If he was to be fully known, you wouldn't love him the way you do now. Mhm.

And he has he's he's been hurt. I mean, you both have been divorced. You both have a lot of emotional baggage you're carrying into this thing. And so you need to understand what was money like in his past relationship.

Was that a part of why it didn't work out? But here's what I do know, and you can put this on your mirror, Marie. You can't build a future with someone who's hiding their present. Oh, okay.

It's impossible. And so you you can't ignore this. This is a giant red flag, and I hope that you guys can resolve this. You get the values.

You do remarry. You do find love again. This would be the best Hallmark movie of all time if it worked out. So I'm rooting for you guys to make this thing work, but he can't hide this anymore.

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Annie is in Boston up next. What's going on, Annie?

Hi. How are you guys? We're doing great.

How can we help today? So, I got you here. Um so, I uh well, first I have to shout out a friend who really has been encouraging me to listen to you guys uh for a few months now. And uh she knows I've been in a tight financial situation.

I've just been too scared to take the first step, but with her encouragement, I downloaded EveryDollar this week and I just had my first DoorDash shift on my lunch break to try and generate some >> Oh, that's awesome. How did she convince you? I'm curious cuz there's a lot of people out there who want to convince their friend and it's like awkward and they don't want to pry.

So, she's been for one, just a huge cheerleader in every aspect of my life, but I actually suffered uh I was uh I suffered a concussion in a a car accident last year. >> Oh, man. Um I have an attorney and I'm supposed to getting my settlement in about a month or two. And she's really been pushing me to figure out how I'm going to utilize that money um to best kind of clear up my financial situation because I've been in a significant amount of debt for a couple of years now living paycheck to paycheck on a $78,000 salary.

Wow.

Uh right now I have 41,000 in some personal loans and uh credit card debt.

Okay. And um do you know >> I also have a car payment. I have a car payment that's 7,000 uh not 7,000 a month, it's 7,000 remaining on the car. Got it. And when this settlement comes settlement comes in, do you know how much it's going to be or do you have a a ballpark?

I have a ballpark. It'll be between 33 and 40,000 dollars. Okay. So, tell us a

little bit about what caused you to accumulate um you know, 40 48,000 dollars of debt over the course of however many years.

Honestly, it's down to four poor of uh financial planning and no financial education from my parents, honestly.

Mhm. Um I ended up taking out credit cards and uh not really realizing how quickly that would add up. Um I've also got uh just some some personal stuff that's required me to make some like kind of ridiculous purchases over the last year for good reasons, but things that I couldn't finance living paycheck to paycheck while paying off other debts. Mhm. Um I won't make excuses for it. It's been poor planning.

Um and just not having a good hand on my money, being impulsive, kind of relying on that endorphin hit of hitting, you know, submit on a purchase. Um so, my

question really is I'm about to get out of the majority of my debt. Um I want to make sure that I

don't find myself in this position again in 2 years. Um what can I do to shift my mindset to make sure that this sticks and that you know, once I pay off all my debt or what I can with this settlement, I have a plan to pay off the rest and I you know, dashing that will help me accelerate that. I just want to make sure, like I said, I don't find myself in this position again in a couple of years. So, how can I shift my mindset?

>> Yeah, well, I love that you're thinking ahead like that even knowing that it could be a potential issue and understanding uh that anytime you get a large sum of money, George, or even if you have a large income, money is not it can't solve bad habits, right? You'll just burn through it, you'll blow through it, and I'm glad that you're seeing that. I can tell you for me, my husband and I paid off $460,000 of debt over the course of 7 and 1/2 years.

is over that time you learn a lot, right? You actually learn why are credit cards bad? You actually learn why is it

better to purchase cars in cash from now on? Not just I don't like the feeling of debt, I'm paying it off. That won't allow it to stick. >> And so what you're doing now, I would say is let's bullet point that as education.

So getting the education around the the why the the why behind the what basically. Why am I paying off the debt? Why are credit cards bad? Why do car loans suck?

You know, why am I avoiding student loans? That is so powerful. It's the same thing of like, you know, when you learn when you learn what what goes into McDonald's fries, it makes you not want to go to the drive-thru and get McDonald's fries even more because you're like, oh god, that really is really bad, right? So keep listening to the show and then the other part of that that I would say, honestly, it's very underrated, but the community of being around people who are doing the same things you're doing and kind of have the same mindset, it makes it a lot easier because now you're not the crazy one.

You know, when you're your buddy >> so great for that. Yeah, your buddy who put you on to Ramsey show like that's the type of folks you want to be around at this point. Mhm. So there's an emotional side of this and Jade's been hitting on that.

There's a pragmatic side. And I love this this Deloney quote. He always says, don't forget to remember. And so think about the end of that sentence.

Don't forget to remember how stressful life was when you were in crippling debt. And you were paycheck to paycheck. And so I think that's part of the emotional side of going, I worked my butt off. I don't want to ever be in that situation again. And then there's the pragmatic side, which is, "Hey, let's have an emergency fund. That's our never going to debt again insurance plan. If we have 3 to 6 months set aside, cuz what reason would you really have to go into debt?" If you had 20 grand laying around?

And then on top of that, doing a monthly budget, just paying attention to that amazing $78,000 income, going, "Hey, I'm going to make a plan for this before a marketing company has a plan for it, before this Instagram ad has a plan for it." You've got to get ahead of those plans. And so, you can create sinking funds. So, maintenance and repairs.

Don't act like everything's a surprise in your life. That's how most people go through life, just reactive. They call the show and say, "Well, Jed, I didn't have a choice. I had to. Well, it just happened. I didn't know I was going to ever need new tires." And that's how broke people stay broke.

So, being proactive, staying ahead of it, get the emergency fund in place.

When you're out of debt, you got to stay gazelle intense through that phase. Once you get out of debt, let's build up 3 to 6 months of expenses put away. And then what I do is I add friction to my life to make it more difficult to do things that I know are bad for me.

Right? If you have donuts in the pantry, you're probably going to eat the donuts.

So, what I do financially, freeze your credit with all three credit bureaus, so that no one, including you, can open debt in your name. So, add some layers of friction. Remove your card info from sites that are tempting you. You know, those are some pragmatic things you can do on top of the emotional side.

I think the emotional side and mindset is more important, but I do I'm a practical guy, so I like to get tactical with the things you can do. And you already have every dollar, so you know making a plan for your money is the number one way to get control of it and not go back into debt. But then also, you're you've changed your identity, Annie.

Yeah, I am. You're the kind of person who doesn't want to owe people money.

You're the kind of person who doesn't buy things she can't afford, even if it's shiny and she had a hard week at work.

Right. >> Those are the kinds of people who build wealth. They're just so focused and they know who they are and nothing nobody's going to change that. That's who you need to become in order to never go back into debt again. Yeah, Annie, I'm going to send you a copy of my book what no one tells you about money because it really talks about all the things that George and I just laid out for you and I

think it's going to just help you get a better handle on it. And honestly, I I was talking to I don't remember who I was talking to the other day, George, but I was saying the folks who really really succeed on the baby steps and that it really clicks for them are the people who understand that it's not just about money. Like the principles that we teach, that behavior of being intentional and paying attention like you were saying, George, it if you if you look at it long enough, you go, "Wait a second. This is really the equation that causes me to be successful in really any area of life." Yeah.

Whether it's you're trying to get in shape, you're trying to affect your diet, you're trying to be, you know, have a more intentional relationship with your loved ones, it's all the same thing. It's about being intentional, it's about understanding how to set yourself up for success, it's about understanding like the cues that trigger you to do the wrong behaviors versus the things that trigger you to do the right behavior. It's all the same and once you get that, that's when it's like no one can stop you.

Oh, you guys are so great. You're so motivating. I love this. We're happy to do it, Annie. Thank you so much for the call. I have Can I ask you one last quick question?

Hit us.

Uh once I have some more margin available in my budget, I would love to invest in some more Ramsey Solutions like opportunities like Financial Peace University. At what point does that become a smart opportunity versus like when should I try and like knock out all the debt first? Like what what comes first? >> love that question. I There's there's certain things that is like immediately.

You know what it reminds me of like should I should I wait till I'm in shape to get a personal trainer? Yeah. Well, you're too late. You've already done it.

And so, it's it's worth the investment in your future. Now, uh lucky for you, Annie, since we like you so much, we're just going to give you Financial Peace University. So, you don't have to pay for it. But, it would have been worth the investment in Baby Step 2. Think about it. If that gets you out of If If 80 bucks gets you out of debt forever and causes you to build wealth and become a multi-millionaire, was it worth the 80 bucks? Yes, ma'am.

>> 100 times over. >> 100%. >> So, I love it, Annie. You got such a great question. We're so pumped for you to be become debt-free real soon. And Jade's right, at the root of the entire plan is just intentionality, delayed gratification, discipline. Live on less than you make. Burn more calories than you take in. That's how to lose weight.

It's how to get out of debt. And it's a principle that would carry you very, very far in life. Thanks for the call.

Hang on the line, we'll get you those resources.

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>> Brandy is in Grand Rapids up next.

What's going on, Brandy? Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. It is an honor. Absolutely. Honor for us, too. What's going on with you today?

So, I am in

um it's kind of like an interesting predicament. So, I moved from a um a

larger city um you know, so obviously like resources, opportunities, um and I moved to a more not even more,

a significantly more um rural and secluded area um a couple years ago to

live with my partner and because he owns

a home, whereas I was, you know, living in a in a bigger city, you know, paying a lot in rent and we wanted to build our

life together. So, instead of me

paying all that money in rent, um I moved away from these resources, away from these opportunities. Um I work from home and my money was supposed to go

into like, you know, renovating our home

and starting, you know, investing in our in our life together.

And I know if Dave was here, he would say that my first was mistake was doing this before there was a ring on my finger. And I don't necessarily disagree with that. >> the hour is cuz it's his home.

Right. I absolutely and that's absolutely true. Um but uh I I want to invest in in a life with him

and and his daughter. Okay.

>> And um where it's more that >> Well, so that's the presumption I've been under, you know, as as he moved me away from my life and I made these sacrifices. >> Ah, hold up. Roll roll it back. Run it back just a little bit. >> Yeah, cuz he didn't move you. You chose to move. Did he kidnap you, put you in a trunk, and cuz if so, we need to call the police.

No, you're totally right. Absolutely.

>> scared me. Okay. We're being We're being We're being strong on it, but it's so important that you do own your part of this as you as you untangle this because it'll just help you have those fair conversations with him when the time comes for you to talk about all of this.

No, you're completely right. Cool. Cool.

>> Absolutely. So, you're kind of trying to You're thinking ahead going, "Okay, I I moved out here because I did see a future, and now now what? Now's now

what's happening?" What's your question? >> um So, a couple years ago in fall um of 2024, my car broke down.

And um we we tried to repair it. He's

very handy, but it was just a very crappy car. It was beyond repair, unfortunately, to our even beyond our even beyond our best efforts.

So, we we just scrapped it, and I've tried very hard to save, you know, but I

even the job that I work, I make 37,000

a year doing this job um paying most of the expenses here because he's a semi truck driver. He's gone almost all week. He's rarely ever home.

So, we decided that it was fair that I make I make I pay most of the expenses here. He doesn't make money when he's gone driving the truck?

Huh? He doesn't make money? That doesn't make sense that just because you're home, you pay it. Are you saying like physically I'm the one who puts the check in the mail, or are you saying like financially I'm the one that covers it? >> all expenses.

So, he pays for the mortgage and the property taxes. I pay for the the internet here. I pay for the electricity here. How does that break out like How does that break out percentage-wise? Is it like 50/50, or is it like 60/40?

>> paying 300 bucks a month and he pays 1,500?

Yeah, that Yeah, he pays significantly more money each month than I do because the mortgage is a lot more than what I pay each month for stuff. >> And that's essentially your rent, cuz you're not really paying rent. Right.

Right. >> you're saying you pay a greater percentage of your money than he does.

Is that what you're saying? Cuz you made it seem like you were doing more.

Wait. Sor- Sorry. I didn't I couldn't hear you. >> It made it sound like you were >> most of the expenses, but percentage-wise you're covering 10 or 20%.

>> Correct. Yeah. Yep. And then I cover I cover the groceries in the home. I cover like the household essentials and stuff that we need. Any kinds of like anything that we use in the home I cover. Okay.

So, where Tell us where the problem is.

Tell us where the rub is.

So, the My thing is is that um I I do a

lot to support the home, especially him and his daughter. And the the issue is

that I don't make very much I don't make enough money to really save a lot. And it It's so I take that back. I do make enough money to save. There have been setbacks. I like I got an unexpected ticket from a beach in the next town over cuz apparently we went on a red flag day and we didn't know. >> Right, but this is normal life. This is life. Tell us where the problem is.

So, the problem is is I have I have had a car in all this time, and he puts an immense amount of pressure on me for not having a car, and does not

like doesn't want to help me get there.

And it's fine that he doesn't want to help me get there, but the problem is is like I don't know why I came down here to do it by myself because the reason I came here is because I was under the impression that I was making the sacrifices to be here

in order for us to do things together.

Yeah. Like I stepped away from an area where I had opportunities to make more money Brandy, I think there's a hard truth here. >> I think you made a lot of assumptions. You had a lot of unfair expectations and now you have a lot of resentment toward this guy. And you guys aren't even married. He owes you nothing. I mean, he could break up with you today. >> Right. And >> Absolutely no and >> I think you need to move back home.

Sure. And that's what I've been thinking about too. And the thing is is it wasn't assumptions. These were conversations that were had. >> Right. >> Right. And I believe that I believe you guys probably spoke about it and it sounded really good for both of you. I mean, you're not >> Mhm. It had to have made sense in your mind for you to move out there. But the truth is the truth is he doesn't have

the motivation to hold up that end of the bargain cuz why does he need to?

He's got everything he wants. He's got a woman at home that's taking care of his kid. He you know, you guys have whatever relationship that you have, you know, romantically and and for him it's like why? Well, like this seems pretty good. Like it's pretty good for him. >> Exactly. And I just to me And he's under no obligation to provide for his girlfriend financially. Yeah. Now, if he wanted to, that's his prerogative, but he clearly doesn't want to.

Mhm. Now, can I can I say something that

you might not like? But this is take it or leave it. This is just me trying to be you know, your buddy us having lunch together.

I don't know, but there might be part of this and and you can you shoot me straight. There might be part of this that because there's two sides every story. He might be experiencing you in a way that goes, you know, this girl like she's kind of like left her her whole life and she's kind of following me and she's kind of I just want to see can she will she do anything for herself? Like she left her job to do this.

I want to see it like maybe he's having this side where he's like, I want to see what she's going to do.

Is she going to Maybe he has a set of

expectations that he's waiting to see if you'll do. I don't know if I'm right.

I'm not trying to make him the bad guy or you the bad guy. I'm just trying to see it from both sides.

Yeah, oh and we we well, we have conversations about this like frequently because I So well, and that's the thing.

It's I lived in this big larger area, I was actively pursuing career opportunities, like actively furthering my career and sacrifice like that would That's what I mean when I I made sacrifices, huge sacrifices to be

here because I thought that we were you know, we were going to be supporting each other. Like that's what I mean like you know, And to be fair, that is that's an initial sacrifice and I hear you on that. I think you're exactly That is a huge sacrifice. My question is, do you have to continue to live like that or can you go, okay, I sacrificed my big job and all this.

I'm here now. Do I have to stay like this or what is it that I can do to make the best of this opportunity?

exhausted everything and you've made the best of everything that you can? Cuz if that's the case, then yeah, George is right. It's like if that's not what you want out of your life, yeah, you got to move it on.

Mhm. Cuz like when I'm like I'm not even like asking to be provided with like a nice vehicle. I'm like I'm

just like a way to get from like

A to B. I'll be honest with you. I'll be I'm going to be dead honest with you. I don't think he needs to provide you for for a vehicle.

I don't think that's going to be good for either of you because then you'll be relying on him. I really do think that you need to go out and make this happen. And if you don't feel like you can be your best self in that environment, you need to move on and do what's best for you. You've got a lot of resentment built up, Brandy, and I don't know if we can pop that bubble and diffuse it all.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance. Or

they don't have any at all. >> I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch.

>> And Oh, you're telling me in for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them, Me, too. and they don't know what to do next. Me, too. I mean, It's terrifying.

>> to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly.

>> the two options. Take care of your dadgum family, man.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

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Tax season is upon us, and if you want to get some free checklists, some guides that'll help you file, go to ramsaysolutions.com/taxes.

Beth is in New York City up next. Beth, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Um Sure. Well, first off, so a a sister in my church bought me the Money Makeover book and the workbook and I downloaded the app, so I'm I'm I'm ready to you know, take responsibility and and make changes to my life. And so as I'm Yeah, it's all good stuff.

So, I just have one problem. So, as I'm going through my numbers and I'm literally in the workbook writing like I'm the problem when it comes to self-employment tax.

Yep. And so I'm finding myself um I did

pretty good last year, but what happened was is if something comes up or if anything, I go into that um into that account, which is part of my bank account. I put it in a savings

and I use it as when I get paid the next month and then I put the money back. So, I'm not being so strict.

>> dipping into your tax savings and using it and then you don't have enough to pay the taxes.

Right. But like I said, things I I paid for this year, I filed, everything was good, but I had to I I've I've been doing this back and forth.

Yeah. For 2 or 3 months, I do so well, I'm strict. What How can I put this money aside and not even look at it as if it's not even cuz my paycheck comes in and then like I auto I automatic I have the transfer from my checking to that savings account, but it's there. I see it.

>> Because it's connected. Okay, well, anyway, the solution's simple. You put the cookie jar high enough that you can't reach it without a really tall ladder that you got to go get from a neighbor's house.

Yeah. Mhm. So, that's what I would do personally. I I go, you know, you can sign up for our Fairwinds high yield savings account, fairwinds.org/ramsey and it's a different bank than you have now and then send the tax money over there and pay the taxes out of that account. >> Mhm. And make sure it doesn't have a debit card associated with it. That's that's what we used to do.

Uh we would uh send it to a savings account that didn't have a debit card attached to it and because it was uh a separate bank and in our case it was an online bank, you couldn't just get it.

It would take like 3 days You got to go through these hoops just to access it.

And so that's what I would do. Now we have we need to fix the root problem, which is you needing to dip into savings to cover these expenses, but in the meantime >> Exactly. I still would protect myself from myself. Yeah, what's happening in your month to month that this is constantly being a thing because I'm guessing this is like a decent amount of money. I mean, it's probably a couple of thousand bucks, right?

So I put aside now starting this first

this year of my income. So I have to put aside 600 I'm sorry, 500 every month.

Okay. Just to put it aside.

>> a quarter. So that means we've got a month to month budget problem of around $500.

Yeah, so I I'm a single mom and I do

live month to month. That's something also that I realized and accepted while reading your book. I'm not done yet. And also, you know, the same thing goes with my emergency money.

I put the money aside. I do good for a month or two or three and then something comes up. I have to dig in. What are the types of things that come up?

Because what I want to determine is is this really a I need more income to cover the things that I really need that I'm forgetting to budget for or is it a thing that hey, these kind of frivolous things pop up and I just don't say no to them.

So it's that I have to basically be more

strict with my money. So the app helps me when I put in the numbers. I'm like, wow, I really do have so two more money left over than I thought, right? I spent too much money on groceries. Okay. Also,

um things come up like I signed up my son for soccer, which I can I cannot not do that. I don't want to take away something from him that he loves just because mom has one income, you know? >> that. So, there you go.

Yeah, so I went into my self-employment tax and I paid and I took out $550, right? Right. So, we need to find something else. We need to find another category.

If you if you're saying, "Hey, soccer's the one thing I'm I'm just not going to budge on." We need to find another category or multiple categories that you can pull this money from. >> Or we need to go make more money. >> Or more money. >> it, too.

But think about it this way, if you work for someone else, like an employer, that money would have never touched your account. So, you need to picture this like untouchable money that is no longer yours because it's not.

Yeah. And if you think about it that way, then you're not going to be tempted to touch it. Think about it like you're illegally accessing this money cuz it's the government's.

Right. And and if anything, I kind of wish that I wouldn't even get that money with the paycheck when it comes. Well, that's what I'm wondering. Can you Can you do a direct Let's say a direct deposit of whatever the 500 bucks is.

Let's say that's 20%.

Yeah. No, I have to make I have to make those payments um online myself through the EFT, whatever that website is.

Right, but when you do it yourself, I'm saying the direct deposits from your from how you get paid over straight to that account. So, it actually never touches your checking account.

So, this is my big question. Where should I put that money so that I don't see it? Well, why can't you Why can't you directly Why can't you directly put it pay it to EFTPS and just ha- do it do it monthly instead of stacking it up for the quarter? Because the amount is still going to be the same.

I don't think that I I didn't even know that was possible. I think that it is. Check in on that because it's going to When you go on that site, it's going to ask you to select what what quarter, right? For Q1, Q2.

And as long as you're selecting, "Hey, this is for Q1." and you're paying in those taxes, there there's no real benefit to waiting for the quarter other than the fact that it typically is a quarterly thing. You can check my information on that, but I I remember doing that. I used to handle that for Sam and I's business, and I would just when the money came cuz I was like you. I was like, "I don't even want to deal with this." I would just go in and pay it directly, and it just made managing the books easier.

>> And you said, you know, which account. I was talking about setting up a whole different bank account. And as an example, Fairwinds has a great one, a high-yield savings account. It's got an account number, a routing number, and so you can set that all up.

And again, that's fairwinds.org/ramsey to get that smart bundle. Has a no-fee checking and high-yield savings along with it. So, check that out. I hope that helps as a band-aid, but again, we need to get to the root problem so you're not underwater each month.

something that, you know, most people is like, "Hey, we know what it is." but I'm sure there's plenty of people who don't. When we talk about budgeting all the time, it's a very simple equation. We're trying to put our income down. We're trying to uh subtract all of our expenses, and what you hope to have at the end of that is margin, right?

We hope that we can find a number that's in the positive that we can use to go towards whatever your your, you know, goals are, whatever baby step you're on. If for some reason you have not done a budget, you need to do that today because what you're going to find is you're either going to have a number in the red that is "Oh my gosh, I'm over budget. No wonder I've been using a credit card. No wonder I've been paying for my savings." Or you're going to have you're going to surprise yourself and you're going to go, "Wait a second.

discipline here, I could have some real cash at my disposal at the end of every month." And so, I just think, George, a lot of people go through and it's just kind of a guessing game of like, "Uh I'll do a little here, a little there, and if I go over, it's okay. I'll just swipe the old credit card." >> I remember one girl, she said she said I don't look at my checking account cuz I don't need that negative energy in my life. So wow, that is the most hilarious form of denial ever. And so a budget, all it does is reveal.

It's not going to control you, you control the budget, but it's going to reveal where your money's going. Once you see all of your transactions, once you see your income, and most people go, "Oh, wow, I didn't realize I was spending that much. Like I make good money.

And honestly, it gets fun and a little bit addictive once you realize, "Hmm, what else can I cut down on?" Cuz you don't need to spend that much money on a cell phone plan. If you're spending 120 bucks and you go down to 25 bucks, you switch to Boost Mobile, it's like, "Great, you just freed up 100 bucks a month." I also think part of that is there's an assumption that I'm going to dislike this. There's an assumption that I, you know, when we think about a budget, we think about we we picture someone telling us no.

Like a big voice out of the sky, like, "No, you can't have that.

I'm just really in control." Which that's a great feeling to feel like I'm in control of everything. Actually, no one tells me what to do. I'm just deciding this and I have like power over this. It's a very empowering feeling and I would challenge the person who has actually never actually tried budgeting, but has a bunch of like emotions or thoughts or opinions around it.

And I'm like, "Have you actually even tried it?" You know what it feels like? It's if you don't do a budget, you're like in the passenger seat of a vehicle grabbing the oh crap bar. That's what I call it. I don't know the official name.

And you're like, "Whoa, whoa, gosh, this person's a terrible driver." I'm like, "Yeah, cuz no one's in the driver's seat." It's just vibes. And so as soon as you get in the driver's seat, you go, "Oh, I can avoid that pothole if I just pay attention." But you'd rather be in the passenger seat doom scrolling Instagram holding the oh crap bar. And so that's what a budget does. And if you want to check out the one that we've got, I think it's the best one out there on the market.

It's called EveryDollar.

It really will give you an amazing sense of control.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel, joined by Jade Warshaw.

And it's a free call at 888-825-5225

if you need some advice, some help, just the right next step for where you feel stuck. We will try our best to help you get there. Emily is in Austin, Texas up next. Emily, welcome to the show.

Hello. Hey. How can we help?

So, um I have a question. Uh

Me and my husband live a debt-free life.

We're currently trying to have a family

and we're not rich by any means, but we're able to live beneath our means and save some each month.

My question is my mother is almost 73.

She has nothing saved for retirement.

And we have her set up on for a Medicaid qualifying trust in the event that she has to go into nursing home, she can get the care that she needs. She frequently drops hints that she would love to move in with us and for various reasons, um, that's not an option.

My question is what is the best way to

kind of have and maintain that boundary

and also help her get she needs.

Um, I feel like I haven't gotten anywhere when I've had to try to have frank conversations with her about where she stands financially, but I also don't want to go into a sinkhole

Yeah. And and I I love that you know that that that's not even an option. It's very tough to navigate.

And I can tell you this, there is if you

have in your mind this picture of you saying, "Here's what it is, Mom." and her coming back and going, "Oh, okay.

That makes sense." Right. >> It's just likely not going to be like that because if she's dropping hints, it's because that's what she wants and you're saying something completely contrary to that. And I think the cleanest way to do this is to kind of have written down what you want to say

and to make sure that you don't swerve away from that to make sure that her reactions don't make you go in a different direction and you just talk in a very clean and I'm not saying be robotic but very clean. Mom, I've talked to my husband. Here's what we've decided. Like being being very clear not we were thinking that or we were hoping that no, here's what we've decided.

We have a Medicaid a trust here for you. That's what's going to kick in when this happens. In the meantime, you will stay you know, you will live XYZ Like do you see what I'm saying? You're saying what will happen.

And then what you can do and it's something I've done. I've said, you know what? I'm also going to send this to you so that you can look back on it and and remember what we talked about. And then I'll you know, send them the send the points in a text or send it air drop the file just so that it's very clean and it

what it portrays is I've given this a lot of thought. It portrays that I don't plan on changing my mind because I'm giving you the documentation of it so that you can look back on that instead of continuing to text me the same question over and over again, right? So that's the way I would handle it and I'm just letting you know, if you can be polite but very clean.

And just hope for hope for the best basically. It's it's not going to be okay. >> to be unclear is to be unkind and so it's all about clarity. No more hints cuz what that is is her passive aggressively asking without asking.

Right. And if you let the hints float around then the hard the conversation just gets harder. Right. And I have told her before like that will not be an option. Like we do not have space and capacity. Mhm. But also on a deeper level, it's not good for a marriage. Absolutely.

And I think what you said just having it

in writing as well after having another conversation. Yeah. And saying

>> asking but the answer will stay the same. Well then you pivot to solutions and you go, "Okay, we want to help you figure this out, but our house is not the plan." Right. >> And so now it becomes we're working on some or looking at something together instead of facing each other in opposition. I think too, when you can say, uh, I don't know your husband's name, but when you can say, "Bob and I talked and Bob and I have decided." I think that also reiterates that the family unit has changed, right?

And it's now you and your husband who have your family who are making those sets of decisions. And it's kind of just um subliminal way of reminding her, "Hey, I um things have changed and I have to make decisions about my family with my family. Obviously, you're still part of my family, but it's it's it's different now." Right. >> Um it's not helping her.

So, here's the kind of life you can actually afford." Um I have not done that. I have tried to help her um as far as like with savings and things like that. And kind of the conclusion that I've come to if it's not her idea or if it's not something that she likes, then it's not going to happen. Right. So, I've tried to let her know before just because I'm not doing what you like does not mean that I'm not being helpful for you. You

also have to take, you know, the help that's being offered. Um I mean, it's the old beggars can't be choosers. It's this is the life that you created for yourself. We had no involvement in you having no retirement. Now, you you made choices along the way. Yes, you took care of us, you raised us, and we love you for that. But the truth is you have nothing in retirement. So, we need to figure out how to live off of your social security.

Right. >> Any assets she has, can she sell anything? Can she do a little something part-time if she's healthy and able to try to bring a little more income if she wants XYZ lifestyle.

And you can you can even remind her of the the choices that like if you if you've suggested something and she's like oh I don't want to do that, right?

But then a couple of days later she's talking about the results of not doing that. Like if you've said hey, you're not going to be able to spend money on this cuz you don't have it, right? And then a few days later she's like man, I I'm having a hard time doing this and you're like well, I tried to tell you that. What you can do is remind her by saying I'm not going to be able to help you because remember we talked about this. And so eventually saying I'm not able to help with that.

And then if she says why, it's well because you've said that you're not willing to and that's going to remind her oh, this really is Here's the help we are willing to give. And you can either choose or accept or reject that help. >> Yeah. But that's it.

This is what we can do. >> Okay. And I that's it's not a fun conversation. I'm not we're not we're making this sound like just do this and it's going to be great.

Right. >> keep pushing on this little loose Jenga piece, I can get this thing to crumble.

>> Yeah, and and you also have the ability, you know, you can decide based on what you know about that relationship, how many times am I going to answer this question or how many times am I going to entertain this conversation about this specific topic.

So you can decide hey, after I'll give her like three or four times on it, but after four, I'm going to then say I've

said this a couple of times now. I'm no longer going to discuss this one with you. Like you can say that and then you hold yourself to that. These are really tough things uh but they're they're good boundary exercises to to start practicing.

Thank you both so much. Yeah, I'm so sorry, Emily. This is one of those things where it's like you're now kind of having to do the parenting. >> If the roles flip flop, man.

>> weird. And it's a good reminder that the biggest expense that's facing uh generation right now is not your kids college, it's your parents care.

It's called the burden retirement where you now have to fund your parents care and potentially raise your own kids. So now you've got this kind of sandwich generation. We're stuck between with their own financial problems and they don't want mom on the street, but they also can't take her on as a financial burden. And that's where these conversations early often with clarity and kindness is the only path forward.

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Laura is in Portland, Maine up next.

Welcome to the show. How can we help?

Thank you for taking my call. It's great to speak with you guys. You as well.

Okay. I am on baby step two. I am

Gazelle intense now.

And here's the dilemma.

I have two consumer loans. One loan is a

vehicle secured loan through my bank.

And the other one is the dreaded 401k

loan.

I do have 4,000 in credit card of the total is 33,400

roughly of everything.

But do I switch gears and make this 401k

loan a priority?

And I know now that I listen to the show

that I'm probably never ever going to recommend a 401k loan to anyone. As as

well as to myself. But further than that my company is starting to do some downsizing. Uh-oh. So I also have some worry. And I'm on baby step two. So I mean my backup is a $1,000

savings if anything was to happen. Yeah. So for those listening, she's worried about that because if you lose your job, that can become due very fast because the loan you owe that money. It can become become due as quickly as like 60 to 90 days in some cases or a calendar year in other cases. It really just depends.

>> Potentially by your tax filing deadline for the following years. That might give you some runway, but I would find out.

That's your first homework assignment.

Yes. Yes.

Good good thought. I have not dug into that. Yeah. >> in touch with HR and say, "Hey, what would happen to my loan if for some reason I was separated from the company.

That's it. And then you'll kind of know what happens and when and what the ramifications are and how soon you need to pay. Uh you have a thousand dollars in savings now?

I do. Okay. How imminent are these layoffs?

They're random.

They they don't Right now, my my area

seems to be okay, but that being said,

we've had a definite down tick in the amount of work that my area sees. Okay.

>> So, that's where I'm That's where I'm Uh 56,000 a year. What's the car loan?

What's the balance on that?

13,350.

Okay. And the 401k loan balance?

15,970.

Okay. And then the credit cards?

4,100.

All right. So, the 401k loan would be second in the debt snowball right now.

And you're going, "Hey, should I put that up first because of this layoff situation and being in a precarious spot?" Right. Would there be severance with these layoffs? Have you seen that happen?

I have seen severance. Um I actually have co-workers that I've uh

you know, that they've they've been put in where they have a severance option.

They have They're given the choice to find something else within uh the company within 60 days or

take the severance, which would be >> not a horrible plan. I have over 20 years with this company. Mhm. Yeah. And I'm just >> "Hey, should you pause everything and just stack up cash right now?" And that way you number one, you have a little emergency padding if you do get laid off. And number two, you might have enough to cover the whole 401k loan by the time this stuff blows over. I I Honestly, if I woke up in your shoes, that's exactly what I would do.

And that's been my That's what I wake up at 2:00 a.m. thinking about. Yeah, because it's a storm and and you have the ability to see the storm coming, which is a a little bit of benefit. And so it's like, yeah, if you can start prepping and start doing all the things that are going to put you in a better situation, 100% I would do that. Are you single? Okay.

I'm married. Okay. Um is your spouse working outside the home? Yes. Okay, what do they make? >> covers most of he he makes around 130. Oh.

>> So you have a household income of 180k 186?

Yes. He's covering most of the household expenses right now so I can focus on this. And he's doing great. I mean >> guys have separate finances it sounds like. We do. We do. We're not totally

He's not totally on board with with Ramsey's um plan.

>> So we he wouldn't help you pay off this debt with his amazing income.

He could. He's He's He's balancing everything right now. When I say everything, like he's paying the mortgage all the way down to the groceries to the internet. >> Well, you said he could. We want to know would he? Obviously he could, he has the money. Would he take a bullet for you?

He He would. Oh, yeah. >> wouldn't help you pay off a 401k loan.

Oh. >> He would if he really had to. I mean It

sounds like he really has to. Here's the thing. >> If you were Listen, if my wife was stressed to the gills staying up till 2:00 a.m. worried about this layoff and 401k loan, I'm not going to go, "Yeah, good luck, honey. Sounds like a tough spot. I'm going to go take my $130,000 salary and cover the mortgage." >> Honestly, that is wild behavior. Yes, I agree. Yeah. >> So part of this problem is due to the lack of unity in your own marriage.

Yes. I agree. And it's probably what got you here. The fact that you needed to turn to debt because you are basically on your own financially.

Right. I mean, I'm a spender and he's a saver and I'm the worrier and he's the

don't worry if this happens, honey, we'll handle it. And I'm just like but how will we? How long have you guys been married?

We've been together for 24 years, and we've been married for 12.

>> How much does he have in savings?

He's got 2,000-ish.

And he's the saver?

He's the saver. >> Woah, yikes. >> all he He just paid off all his debt, too. Once I said we're not we're I mean, he we're we're doing the plan. We're not doing the plan exactly. >> No, you're not doing the plan. Don't say that. I'll be honest, you guys would have been completely debt free by now if you were doing this thing together. >> Yeah. We probably would. That's Cuz there's zero accountability, zero transparency, and that's caused a lot of this mayhem.

So, >> You guys need to get to the bottom of why that is. >> can solve that, then we can be less freaked out about all of this other stuff. That's what I'm getting at.

>> Right. But the band-aid is you pause your own debt snowball and try to stack up some cash. But it's going to be a whole lot harder on 56 than it would be on 186.

Right. >> You could save a 15 grand in 3 months if you guys worked together.

And I think part of it is I feel guilty that I spent and didn't make the best

choices, and I, you know, here's the shoes, and oh, I can afford this, and why not do this, and this and that and vacation, and that. >> Like, I think it's fair to to have the accountability of being able to look back on previous actions and go, "Oh, man, that wasn't smart, or I shouldn't have done that." There there there's health to that and being able to, you know, like, take responsibility for bad choices. But don't you don't you agree there comes a point where it's kind of like, all right, that's enough. Like, have you ever talked to Have you ever been in a conversation with somebody and they keep bringing up something, and after a while you go, you have to set that boundary and go, "Hey, I don't want to keep talking about that." Right.

Don't you think then don't you think there's that time that you with your own self you go, "Yeah, I know.

That was like 10 years ago or that was like 2 years ago.

That's enough. I don't want to keep talking about it. Let it go, man." Right? So, I think you just have to do that with yourself, um as well because otherwise you're just going to That's going to be the refrain that is always in your brain why you can't work together.

Well, after all, I did do that thing 10 years ago. Like, you got to stop. >> Yeah. And if he's willing to If you tell me he's truly willing to do this, but the only reason you're not is cuz you feel guilty, then then I'm singing that even louder to you like, "Hey, let it go, man." Like, you got to let it stop because everybody makes mistakes.

Right? >> Right. Right. Oh, yeah. We both have. We We definitely have learned some lessons when it comes to money. I mean Yes.

>> I feel like we need to sit down, both read The Total Money Makeover, talk about it. >> Say that to him. Be Say and lead not leading with an attack, but just leading with, "Hey, I've done a real terrible job in this marriage and I apologize and I feel like we have zero unity and I would love to get on the same page. I know it's been 24 years. I know it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but I think our marriage and future are worth it." It's hard to argue with that.

Nothing for him to really disagree with there. He's going to go, "Yeah, you're right." >> No. And I've learned so much from this show.

I mean, he doesn't listen cuz he's not able to cuz of the type of work he does, but I I just have to say Is it illegal for him to listen to this show? I didn't know there was jobs like that. >> I know. I'm like at night on a walk.

No, he he um he works in construction and he works in the field and he just wouldn't be able to. I mean, he has earplugs in, just not, you know, they're not good for you. And his commute home, he needs just dead silence just to recover from the day, apparently. Well, I'm wishing you guys the best, Laura, in cleaning this mess up. There's a lot of layers to this, but you will be okay in the end, especially if you can get some unity.

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All right, Max is in New York City up next. What's going on Max?

Hi, yeah.

So you're going to have a ton of questions as to how I got in this hole but you know, I'm 26. I'm in New York City and I found myself in 14 closer to $15,000 in credit card debt

unemployed and renting a shoe box 184 square foot

apartment for 2750 a month.

Um and you know, I'm not I'm not I know I'm not the first person to find myself in this hole but I just don't see a way out of it and you know, the my best ideas at the moment are take out another credit card with a 0% APR balance transfer

I don't know 12 21 months and just push this debt down the road or >> That's your best idea?

Well, you know, we'll get to the some of the backstory if you want but you know, that or do I you know, at 26 years old is it worth just looking into filing bankruptcy? Are you a New Yorker or did you move there to try to pursue something?

No, so I came here on a suggestion because I I had I was at complete rock bottom and I had nowhere else to go and and somebody else was willing to float the first 6

months of my living expenses to be here. I got out

of my third residential rehab program for drug and alcohol abuse. You know, I just made it to 18 months clean and sober for the first time in my life. >> Wow, that's impressive.

Yeah, I'm very proud of that, you know, and I'm you know, like diving into spirituality and and you know, trying to strengthen relationship with God and can't can't believe that I got here and now I'm like, what the hell where do I even start? I have just no financial literacy. That was never part of my upbringing with my parents and I'm just feeling feeling screwed. Yeah. What was it what what were you doing? What was the work you were doing before it it went sideways?

Yeah, after you know, after applying to every entry-level position, I was given a job by someone

in a 12-step program recovery program. He owned a a a bit of a canine concierge service and he allowed me to walk dogs for him. Wow.

Is there anything on your record that would make it tough for you to get employment like anybody else?

Yeah, I mean, I've been turned out yeah.

Yes, there is.

And the reason I feel stuck in New York City is because I am not legally allowed to drive anywhere in the country.

Understood. >> I came to New York City for the subway. So you need somewhere with public transit.

But there's a lot of options for that. So you're not stuck in New York City, you're stuck in a city that has some way to get around with public transportation.

Yeah. Okay, what were you making doing the canine concierge?

Right at about 60 grand a year. That's what I was that's what I was on par for.

Wow. >> Mhm. Have you been looking for jobs? Is that where you want to stay right now?

Could you jump to a different similar job?

Um, I've I've I've just I've applied

everywhere um except bars and restaurants because I'm I'll be honest, I'm a little worried about going in back in I was a bartender before I I got sober. >> and we're going to say no to that. Like going to that environment.

Definitely not. >> I've applied I've applied at for like, you know, Amazon, I've applied for UPS, anything entry-level I've applied to. I

just cannot get hired. The one job offer I've gotten in the past 2 weeks of looking for a job was 100% commission-based for Verizon and, you know, um and I We need something stable right now. We don't need like a maybe I'll make money in 3 months. Is do you think that the reason you weren't able to get on at Amazon and and UPS in those places was it because of what might be on your record or do you just think I I just didn't get hired?

I I didn't even get a callback for an interview. Right. And I'm trying to what I'm trying to ascertain is do do we start do we need to start thinking about what are things you can do to create income on your own? And if that's the case, uh that puts me in a different headspace cuz I go, "Okay, service-oriented things that you could provide for other people that don't require that you can use public transportation to do." That's the headspace I'm kind of going in.

Um and some of that makes me think, "Man, I wonder if a suburban area would be better for you because then it's like, hey, I do yard work, I do lawn services." I If there's any sort of trade that you can do and become kind of a handyman, like I'm trying trying to think of things that you can do that don't require someone else to have to hire you and have to approve of you that you can just start today and start with what you have, but also navigate the transportation aspect of it.

I get that. The and I'm not a I'll do just about anything >> you will. Yeah. Get your bike off of Craigslist and start doing deliveries and courier services. There you go. I mean, weather's nicer in New York City right now, too, which is perfect. >> It's Yeah, I know, it's beautiful out today. I have $25 to my name. Yeah. So,

right now you're you're on fire right now. So, you're like, "Hey guys, Yeah, who So, I'm confused. Who was floating this 2750 rent?

Uh it's Yeah, it was like somebody who owns >> Cuz you never could have afforded this. Even making the 60, that was eating up all of your income.

It was eating up all my income. I was I was Yeah, my mom My mom gave me 700 bucks a month to help for the first 6 months of this lease, and she said this is all I can do. After this, you're done. And I graciously accepted it. That 6 months is up, and I've been, you know, I've been I've been biting the 2750, and, you know, living off of food stamps Have you gone back to the 12-step program to seek other employment?

If that's who gave you this job?

Why, yeah. I mean, I've been in I've been in the rooms, you know, pretty much begging for jobs, and, you know, it's It's also the beginning of the year, and, you know, not everyone is hiring like they are in, you know, late summer to, you know, getting in the holiday season. I've been I've tried that route, and, you know, I'm going to continue to do so. >> So, what's your landlord going to do when you don't make rent next month?

Well, that's I I have no clue, you know.

>> be letting him know the situation. I wouldn't wait until the day comes where he's knocking on your door going, "Where's the check?" I have a feeling I know the answer to this, but you're going to probably say do not put it on a credit card.

Absolutely not. And I would be looking your lease agreement and studying up on that to figure out how do you get out of this thing? Because there's probably going to be some penalties to break the lease, and if you don't pay, and if he It's going to be expensive and difficult to evict you. So, I'd just be honest with him and say, "Listen, man, here's where I'm at.

I can't pay this rent anymore. I'm I lost my job. I'm in recovery. Like, I can't do this. And you need to go, you know, maybe get a place with seven roommates." >> Mhm. Mhm. And it goes down to 700 bucks a month. What type of support system do you have?

I know obviously family helped you kind of get those first few months started, but I I'm I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and my mind is going is there some place that I can go back to and go, "Hey, I tried my hand out here. I I I need a couple months to get on my feet. I literally have $25 and I'm

trying to be responsible and not go into debt." Do you have is do you have a buddy? Do you have a family member that would would float you for a couple of weeks until you can get

a lawn mower basically? Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah, financially everyone I know is tapped out, you know, I'm Well, I'm not saying I'm not saying ask them for money. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if I'm going to say what I'm thinking and then you put it in terms of your situation. I'd probably call up my sister and be like, "Farah, it's hard out here.

Like I made some like I thought I could come to New York, but here's where I'm at.

Could you give me like 2 weeks, 3 weeks at your house? Here's my plan. What I want to do is get some place a little bit more residential. Just get some place where I can start to offer services for people so I can make some really quick money. I'm thinking about doing things like washing windows and repairing people's decks and like right?

Tell them what your plan is because that's a lot more convincing to let to help somebody rather than I need money.

That's not going to work. And remember to cover your four walls first. Before you pay the credit card company, you got to cover food, shelter, utilities, transportation and get those down as cheaply as possible and if you can't pay the credit cards, you don't pay them. And you can contact Guardian Lit at guardianlit.com/ramsey to help with the settlement collection stuff if you do end up facing that. So sorry, man.

>> All right, guys. If you haven't heard, Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And today, we're going to break down the most asked question from the week, real estate. Hot topic. We're getting lots of questions about buying a house. So, the main question here, what are the most important factors to consider when buying a house? Love that.

Well, definitely financial readiness, right? You want to be completely debt-free. You don't want any non-mortgage debt, no credit cards, no car loans, nothing like that. And when you do that, it reduces your risk and allows you to actually be able to handle emergencies that pop up.

Obviously, we want you to have a fully funded emergency fund, 3 to 6 months of expenses. And we want to make sure that you can afford the mortgage payment and any ongoing maintenance costs. So, that's so important. We teach that 25% rule.

That's right. And then, the next piece is, naturally, how much house can you afford? Cuz the thing is, that mortgage lender will be like, "You guys can afford a million-dollar home." And you should be like, "No, we actually can't based on our real numbers." And so, your mortgage payment, including the principal, the interest, the property taxes, the homeowner's insurance, the HOA fees, even private mortgage insurance, that PMI if applicable, should be no more than 25% of your after-tax monthly income. So, that's after taxes, but before all the other deductions like your 401k, your healthcare.

So, that'll help uh bolster that 25% number. And here's the thing, you you know, it's not a sin to go 26% or 30%, but here's the problem. We get calls where it's 50% and these people are drowning asking if they should sell their home. And so, we just don't want you to be house poor.

It's not about following strict rules. And using a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage and avoiding 30-year loans, adjustable-rate mortgages, FHA loans if possible. That's the way to go. >> Yeah, and not only that, but even saving for your down payment, which is a big hot-button topic now.

You know, you want to aim for at least 10% down. If you do 20%, of course, you're going to avoid PMI, but the truth is, for a lot of us today, you're going to have to put a lot more than that down in order to reach the 25% rule that George was just explaining. So, really hop on there and use our our mortgage calculator to figure out exactly how much you need to put down so the payment is right, because at the end of the day, you don't want to be using any of your emergency funds for this.

You should have separate savings, and you should also be able to put the right amount down.

And then the mortgage process, you got to get pre-approved before you start house hunting, and that shows sellers that you're a serious buyer. This will help when it comes to offers when you're, you know, in the mix there.

And it helps you shop within your means. So, choose a reputable lender who will prioritize your financial well-being instead of just try to throw the biggest mortgage they can at you. And our friends at Churchill Mortgage, they've helped so many people buy a home the Ramsey way. And if you want to know if you're ready to buy, how much house you can afford, how much you need to save, all that, Ask Ramsey, our free AI tool can personalize those answers for your situation.

So, that's a great thing. You can go back and forth, have a conversation, save the chat if you log in. So, head to ramseysolutions.com and try it for yourself. You can also click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube.

in Detroit, Michigan up next. What's going on?

Hi. Um, thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. >> I am I Sorry, I am calling today because I

wanted to get some advice about how to set my son up for success in his future.

Um, so, a little bit of background, I am 27. I am a PhD student at the University

of Michigan, and I have a 1 and 1/2 year old, and I've been trying to save money for him and figure out the best way to set him up for a future because I have come from a very poor household, have been homeless several times, and I really would not want that for him. Wow.

>> Wow. Yeah, I mean, um kudos to you for

making this all work. Um I would be very focused on

m- and this is going to sound kind of um opposite of what you said, but with a 1-year-old, the best thing you can do for for him is to make sure you're doing and being the best person you can be.

So, what does that look like for you financially? Making sure you're out of debt, making sure you're able to pour into him uh financially and help with college, making sure you're setting yourself up in such a way that it's so healthy with you that all that health gets onto him.

Does that make sense?

Yes. And so, that my that leads me to my next question, which is how are you doing financially? Like, are you paying off debt? Like, where are you in this whole thing?

So, um my husband and I, we make just north of

90,000 a year.

Um I don't have any student loans or credit card loans. I actually had a free ride to school, and my PhD was paid for by the school. Nice. Um the only debt that we do have is we do have two car loans. Our cars took a crap for lack of better words, and so we do have two car loans, but that's the only debt that we have. What do those car loans add up to? What's the Give me both balances.

So, my car is at 18,000, and his car is

at 21.

Okay. >> Okay. And what are the monthly payments on that?

Um one is $381 a month, and the other one is $481.

So, when I see that number, all I see is

future investing. That's $860 that could

be invested if we got rid of this debt.

You see what we're doing here?

Yes. Can I show you what $860 would be if you invested it from the your when your child turns 2 to 18?

Sure. You ready to blow your mind?

$400,000. >> Um Yeah, exactly. So, it's going to be a lot. >> Hope you like the car.

Yes. Yes. So, you're asking us how do I save for my kids college? It's getting rid of your debt so that you free up that money cuz right now do you have $860 extra to invest?

I mean, not if we're paying car loans.

Exactly. And the thing is for most Americans, I mean, we're not trying to single you out. Most Americans, this is the this is the cycle. It is a revolving door.

I drive this car for a while, it gets old, something happens, I trade it in for another car, and I have another car payment. Drive that for a while, something happens, I trade it in and I have and I have a car payment for their entire life. >> it. How can you save up for a car when you've got the car payment taking up what you would have saved.

So, eventually you have to break the cycle and drive the crappy car while saving up for a car, you know, that you really want, the upgrade car that you do in cash. So, I mean, you got 40 grand in vehicles making 90. That's that is up there. >> yeah.

So, my PhD gives me a stipend. So, I'm paid through the school as well. So, that's half of our income and then my husband makes the other half. Okay. So, now the question is how do we up both of your incomes? When is your PhD done and what will you be making?

So, I have 2 more years left.

Um and it depends on what I go into. I'm not entirely sure. It's estimated to be just north of 100,000.

Um but it really depends on like where you work, what company, and what city that you're in. And I I don't I can't really make those decisions quite yet.

>> Sure. And what about him? What's he doing?

So, he's a medical technician. He 3D prints um surgical implants. Okay. So,

I'd be the way I'd put it in our brains if I sat down tonight and was talking with my husband about this very thing, I'd say, "If we can't If we can't commit

to getting these cars paid off in 18 months or less, I think that we should consider selling one of them." That That would be my kind of thing to bring to the table. And that way you're saying, "Hey, we we know that there's a level of urgency here, but we're also allowing space for us to keep these vehicles if we really want to work hard to keep them." But what I wouldn't do is try to do all of this at once. Try to invest, try to pay off the debt.

Okay. And you're probably going, "Wait, money left over?" That's what happens when you're debt-free. And you're You guys will be making north of six figures. So, I'm not as worried about Junior. I'm more worried about the present you. Right.

>> Cuz even if you start investing at when he's 4 years old to 18, yeah, you'll have to invest a little more to make up for some lost time and compound growth.

But I mean, even let's say 4 years old to 18, if you invest 500 bucks a month, he'll have 181 grand. That's at a 10% return over those 14 years. And that's assuming he gets no scholarships and he just got to pay that. And then on top of that, think about how much more money you guys will be making 14 years from now, 15 years from now.

>> And so, you'll be able to cash flow. He might get scholarships and grants. He can work part-time. There's a lot of things that he can do to avoid student debt. But all of this is uh predicated on you guys creating a financial foundation for yourselves. Yeah. So, the moral of the story, not just for um you, Cara, but for anybody listening, the way that we love our family well, whether it's our kids or thinking about the future, is we

have to have our personal financial life in order. How many calls do we get, George, where it's my parents didn't do

what they were supposed to do? So, now I'm 40 years old and I'm having to pay for kids college plus their care and do all this. If you can decide today, you know what? I want to break that cycle.

I want my kids to be set up. It starts with you. It's not in the DNA. You can break the cycle.

And so, it is possible and the account to invest in is a 529 plan for education or you can do an education savings account.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Kamel joined by Jade Warshaw.

Free call at 888-825-5225.

Ken is in Tallahassee up next. What's going on, Ken? Welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. What's your question? So, I'm looking for some guidance. Um my wife and I, we had left our jobs uh about 2 years ago and we both opened um two businesses. Uh both of which have done pretty well.

Over the past 2 years, we've really aggressively attacked all of our debt except our mortgage and one investment property. Good. >> Um now we're at the point where we're trying to determine if we should go ahead and pay off the investment property that we purchased which has an interest rate of 5.99.

We owe about 223,000 on it.

Or should we start aggressively uh contributing towards retirement accounts, 401k, whatever we can do to set ourselves up for retirement. Okay. Are you currently investing 15% into retirement every month?

We have not started anything for retirement whatsoever. Okay. Do you have the three to six months of expenses saved?

We have $82,000 saved right now, yes.

Okay, and that's Okay, and how many months of savings is that?

Uh how many months? >> Mhm. Well, we make about $360,000 a year combined that.

Okay. And is that is that a side

uh that's personal money like for your personal life, that's not your business savings account and retained earnings, right? >> that's our that's our personal money, yes. That's what we netted. Okay. So, I

would just walk this through the baby steps, which is it sounds like you've kind of already done.

Uh and just to recap for anybody listening, baby step one you're getting a $1,000 saved, baby step two it sounds like you've done, you pay off all of your debt except the mortgage, and then baby step three you save up three to six months of expenses, you've done that.

Then baby step four is you're investing 15% of your gross income every single month. And once you're doing that, it's kind of like that's the set it and forget it. I know that that portion of retirement's going to be taken care of.

Now I can look up and do things like if you want to put a little aside for kids college, uh if you want to pay extra mortgage payments, right? Some of the things that you're talking about. So, as long as you're doing the 15%, I would invest in paying off some of this real estate. However, um I would be looking at what's the best way for your primary mortgage to be debt free quickest.

What's left on that? That's my biggest question because our mortgage payment on our homestead's $2,200 a month. Our interest rate is super low.

So, my question there would be do we pay aggressively towards the investment property which has a 5.99 rate? What's the balance of your current mortgage?

Yeah, what's the balance of the homestead?

Um about $323,000.

So, since that's where your bodies lay down to sleep every night, that's what that's the equation I want to solve for is how can we make that debt-free first?

Because and my my my thought for that is

no matter what the situation, whenever people have an emergency, a hard time, whether somebody's laid off, whether there's a diagnosis, the number one people thing that people want the number one thing people care about is I want to keep my house. I don't want anything to come between me and keeping my house, right? So, Sure. that's why that's the first thing I'm like, how can we make that debt-free?

>> you could sell the investment property. >> Yes. I don't want you to have to sell your home to do that because of the mortgage payment. So, I'm I'm not concerned about interest rates, Ken.

You guys make so much money that it's negligible.

what $54,000, 4,500 a month. And so,

even though you're starting from zero, I'll give you the math here on our investment calculator. You can jump on our website and use it. We'll drop a link in the description for this. But from 38 to 65, you guys invest 4,500 a month, you never make more than 360 at 10% return on average, you'll have 7.4 million.

Okay, so when you when you say invest, are you referring to like a brokerage and index funds and all that or >> This is any type of investment account that utilizes compound growth. And so, this could be retirement. I would do retirement accounts. So, the way we look at it is there's a kind of a water flow approach. If you have an employer match, we're going to go there first. Then we're going to take all the Roth accounts we can get.

Now, with your income being so high, you may want to utilize traditional. Yeah.

Since you own your businesses, yeah, so >> So, you could do solo 401ks. Are there employees in the business or is it just you guys? Uh I My business is a solo. I'm the only owner and then my wife and I's business is me and her and one other employee.

Okay. Mhm. I would for yours it's easier

to set up. For hers I would probably work with somebody to make sure you're structuring it the right way. But yeah that's I would start that immediately.

That's your that's your project for next week. And then Yeah right now you just haven't been because you just don't know. And you guys are super smart people, very successful and it's pretty easy to know. And there's pro guidance that I would suggest you can jump on ramseysolutions.com, click on SmartVestor Pro.

They'll dig into your situation and help you decide hey for your situation for your wife she should do a SEP IRA for her business and you should do a solo 401k for example. And that will allow you you can actually put in way more into a solo 401k because you're do you're the employee and the employer. >> That's right. So you can contribute on both sides and really make some headway to start investing.

And I would just work on extra mortgage payments outside of that.

Uh we have three total. Two are grown, the youngest is 11. Okay. So I'd be putting some money away for college.

I mean hopefully you guys will be able to cash flow the rest but a 529 plan would be a great place to sock away extra money and just kind of set a goal for that. Again the SmartVestor Pro can help you set that goal from 11 to 18 we want to have you know six figures in this account by then. You might be able to kind of super fund it just in the next year and then set it and forget it.

So don't even worry about the investment property? Well I wanted to ask about that. I mean how married are you to it because my mind immediately goes to what's this thing worth because if I can pull It's a long term rental. It pays for itself.

I understand that but I would rent that out and go okay it might pay for itself.

would you want to sink it back into real estate that maybe you're just breaking even on month to month. >> No, we have we have some equity. I just don't think it's it's it's a ton, so.

Okay, what are you actually making off of this thing per year after all of your expenses? It's about 600 a month after expenses.

Man, that's not much compared to your whole income. >> I know. No. What's it worth?

>> of a more of an investment to have later on and you know, I guess, so. Are you guys going to live there one day?

No. No, I guess something that we would just have on the side and sell later on that >> I mean, it's less than 2% of your household income. So, you got to ask yourself, is it more than 2% of the headaches in my life?

Maybe. What do you what's it worth if you did sell it? I'm just curious.

What do you what would it bring? >> Um 275 maybe.

>> Okay, so not a whole lot.

>> 280. No.

Yeah, you know, it would be something I'd continue to watch it and if it starts going up in value and it's it becomes enticing to you and it does make sense to maybe offload that in order to free up the homestead, I would definitely do that deal when it's time.

Thanks for the call, Ken. Again, that's ramseysolutions.com. Click on SmartVestor Pro and they'll help you craft a plan for all of this cuz you guys make so much money, let's put it to good use.

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Breeze in Santa Barbara up next. What's going on, Bree?

Hi there. Thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can Jade and I help?

Hey, I'm calling because um I am a

32-year-old single mom and I work as a teacher and I live in a pretty expensive area um of California and I'm feeling

really good actually about where I'm at financially, especially considering I had many years of being very low income and I guess I'm kind of at a point where I'm not really sure what I'm saving for.

I I put away money every month um towards savings and I have been since I started my first day as a teacher, um every year increasing the amount that I put. Um and I just I have about $60,000

saved up Wow.

>> you know, continuing to save every month and I also am really careful with my budget and how I spend my money and I guess I kind of am not really sure why I'm doing it and I guess I want to understand what amount of money should I be putting towards saving versus allowing myself to live a little bit of a more enjoyable life financially on a day-to-day. I I love this question because I think that anybody who's really had to scrap to get to where they are, you do you get in the mindset of like I just it's like a robot.

I take the money, I put it over here, and I don't even question And then it feels like you've done something bad if you don't do that or if you spend it, you feel guilty.

Uh no. I other than my mortgage, my home. >> Great. So good. You've got a mortgage and you've got 60K. That's just all of your savings. Does that include your emergency fund? It's all wrapped up in there? Yeah. Yeah, I mean I've got about like 6,000 in the bank, I guess, but >> Okay. That's kind of your checking account money. Have you started investing yet?

What's that? Have you started investing?

Oh, yeah. That's in an investment account. Oh, okay. So, it's it's not as

liquid. It's not sitting in a high-yield savings or anything. So, how much do you have in a high-yield savings account or in a savings account that's liquid? >> a high-yield savings account. It's all in like a brokerage account.

>> Oh, that scares me a little bit cuz if you had an emergency, you'd have to just sell that off no matter what's going on the market.

I would, but it also like I have I have

other sources. Like I could talk to my parents, I could talk to family members if I needed to. Let's Let's fix that.

Let's fix that. I think I heard you say that you're a teacher, right?

I am. How come you're not investing through your work into a 401K? Cuz usually there's an automatic kind of amount that goes Yeah. >> No, there's there's nothing that I'm aware of at least through my job that I can invest Is this a normal school system? I've just never heard of a school system that doesn't have a retirement plan. Uh double check that for me.

>> plan. It's separate, though. So, I don't even know what's in my retirement plan because I don't consider that savings. I consider that just my retirement.

>> Okay, so let's let's let's help you with that. So, that what you have, that retirement plan is awesome. And that's the number one way people build wealth is through their employer-sponsored retirement account, okay? So, if you have a 403b, which it sounds like you do, my guess is there's a percentage of your income that's automatically going into that as a teacher, am I wrong?

No, you're correct. I don't know if it's called a 403b. Um, it's but it is like a teacher retirement account. In California, I think it's a little different. >> how much goes into that every month?

Right now, it's $600 a month, but it also increases every year as I earn more. Okay, so the goal that we want to get to is for you to be investing a total of 15% of your gross income. So, the math that you can do tonight is to say, "Okay, that 600, what percentage of my gross income is that?" So, let's say it's 10%, and then you go, "Okay, I need to add X amount of dollars in order to get this to 15." That's thing one. Once you're doing that, it's like, "Okay, I can set that and forget it.

I know that if I continue to do this, when the day of my retirement comes, I'm going to be set." And a way to really feel good about that is to go on the Ramsey Investment Calculator and just plug in your numbers and say, "Okay, today I'm 32.

this $600 or however much you increase it towards, here's what I'll retire with." That's going to make you feel amazing. And then it's going to free you up to be able to spend money in other ways when the time comes. What's really on fire for me today is the fact that you don't have liquid money in a HS in a high-yield savings account. Um, and that

needs to probably happen immediately.

Um, so I probably told you that a little bit out of order, but I wanted you to understand that you did have employer-sponsored retirement at your disposal. Yeah, and with the high-yield savings account, how much do you recommend putting in that? Three to six months of expenses. Uh, you're a single mom, and so I'd feel better if you had six months, as close as six months as possible.

And you have that now in that brokerage account, so I would just sell off that much and be aware if there's any capital gains taxes on that, but take that out, put it in a high yield savings account, and then keep it liquid. I know it's not making as much as you could be in the market, but it's not to be invested. It is insurance against you having to go into debt ever again. So, you'll feel a whole lot better having that liquid at the ready.

My son is 12. I do put money towards his college fund every month. I have I think like 12,000 or so saved up at this point. I don't aggressively put money into it.

So, that's in addition to the 60,000 I have in investments.

>> Right. So, you may want to make a goal to put a little more in there, and you can use an investment calculator figure out, "Hey, here's how much an in-state public school would be in this area if they choose to go there." And try your best to get there. You don't have to cash flow the whole thing. That's not your obligation, but it'll help them avoid student loan debt, which is a huge crisis in America today.

So, that's one goal for your money is to put more towards college. You can always put more toward the mortgage, and then of course, budget a little more. >> such a low interest rate though. Like I was able to buy about 5 years ago, and so my interest is 2.63.

And so, it feels like if I had the option between investing, I would just get a lot more return for my money if I was to put it in an investment account rather than pay the mortgage off early. That's true, but you have to think about where you'd want to be when the day comes and you can no longer work. Because if you continue to let your 403b through your teaching continue to grow and accumulate, like I said, do that homework tonight because it's going to change your mindset. Because the time is going to come when you can't work anymore, and you're going to look up and you're going to go, "Man, I don't want to be paying my mortgage out of my retirement every single month.

It'd be so great to maybe have a slightly smaller nest egg, which it probably, you know, it will be negligible, and also have a paid off mortgage." Does that make sense? >> Okay.

About 75,000.

Okay. >> And I I put away about 700 per month in

into investment accounts. And then the rest I use for expenses. I

I mean, I live like a decent life, you know, it's not like I'm penny pinching at every corner, but I also, you know, there's extras that I choose not to do because it wouldn't, you know, stay within my budget. >> you want to do?

If I snap my fingers I want to hire somebody to deep clean my house once a month. Love it.

>> Because uh like I just won't do it and I want it done. >> What does that cost you in California?

It's It's probably a couple hundred bucks. Okay, say 250. So, you can in, you know, set up an every dollar budget, use the app and just put line item house cleaning 250.

Okay. That's it. And you guys think if I do all these calculations and I make

sure I got my 15% like you think it's okay to get Yes.

Yes. I wouldn't be investing in the brokerage account at this point. That is sort of like a baby step seven, house is paid off, I've run out of other investment options. You're going to be fine.

You're so young doing so well that I would be more focused on making sure I'm investing 15% to retirement, making sure my kids college is covered, making sure the mortgage gets paid off, and then if I allow some spending money for Bree, you've earned it.

every month. I think you said you were at six or seven. So, bump that up to the right amount, like I said, somewhere between 900 dollars and 930 dollars. And then from there on, if you're doing all those things that George talked about, you're you're in your baby step, you're letting you're doing those things correctly, 100%.

The whole purpose of doing this is so that you can enjoy your money and so that you can spend. It is live like no one else so later you can live like no one else. And for you, it's simple things like having a house cleaner. So, as long as it fits in the budget and it's not causing you to have to pull from investments, it's not causing you to have to forsake your kids college fund, it's not causing you to have to, you know, have have no money ever to put extra on your mortgage, right?

Then it's fine. It's good.

Thank you. >> it, Brandy. >> much, guys. Thank you for the call.

You're a hero. That's very impressive what you're doing. 32, single mom, Yeah.

>> debt-free, in California nonetheless.

>> Right. And I love that she rode out the storm of starting out low income and really pushing and pushing to get to where she is now. That is so gratifying.

I'm so proud of her.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

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May not be available in all states. Alrighty, today's question comes from Ian in Wisconsin. He says, "Is it okay to use buy now pay later plans as long as you have the cash available to buy the item to buy the item outright? I'm making a large purchase and have cash to pay for it today, but I want to put it on payments to soften the blow to my I love this guy. I want to put it on payments to soften the blow to my bank account. I've

already got the payments worked out into my every dollar budget, so I don't see why this isn't a legitimate reason for using the method. Okay, this is wild,

but I I I want to kind of validate what you're thinking. I think all of us feel the pain of seeing a nice cushy number

in our bank account and then we decide we want to do a major purchase like a car or a golf cart or whatever and the feeling of seeing I don't know a balance of $40,000 go down to $5,000 is like

it's like shot to the heart, okay? Yes, validating that. However, the whole purpose of managing your money well is to be able to pay cash in actual money for the things that you want.

uh this is really not that much." And it goes little by little by little, and then it opens up the door to, "Oh, this is kind of nice. I'm only paying >> put it on my tab. And you go, "Well, it's only four bucks here, five bucks there, 10 bucks here." And then it becomes a habit where you go, "Well, if I needed to, I could pay it all off today." And then you lose your job.

>> Well, then you try it with something else. You go, "Oh, that kind of felt nice. Now I'm going to get this guitar >> Now you're doing an appliance. And now you're no better than the guy doing, you know, 0% financing on a freaking couch at Ashley Furniture.

So, >> worse and worse. >> And this is just it's broke people mentality, and the truth is if it softens the blow to your bank account, that means you probably just shouldn't buy it. If it like hurts your soul a little bit to part with that much money, that's your brain and body telling you, "Hey, this is a lot of money. Are we sure we want to do this?" And what buy now pay later really does, it just desensitizes your brain to go, "Ah, it's fine, bud." It's like a little devil on your shoulder going, "Put it on four payments, guy.

You got it. You deserve it. You worked hard. I think you worked too hard to be this broke playing broke people games." Yeah, that that is so good, George.

And these are such predatory companies.

They're praying that you can't make the payment so they can ding you with fees and interest. They're no better than the credit card companies out there, and their marketing touts it like, "We are the best alternative to credit cards.

We're here to be your savior." You know what I think is going on here? This just hit me. This is what I think. I think that he probably has a lump sum of money saved, and it's probably earmarked for something else.

But he has this big purchase that he wants to make, and he's like, "Well, I could do it on buy now pay later because of the truth is if something happened, I could pay for it, but if the ear if the money wasn't earmarked for that, then that's probably why it doesn't feel good." I'm just throwing that out there. I don't know if I'm right, but that's the sense that I'm getting. Yeah. The the bottom line is you can't build for the future while paying for the past.

So, if If got anything behind you in the rearview mirror, what are you doing? You're just wasting brain calories thinking about the payments you There's enough things to worry about in this life. Debt is not one of them. And that's all it is.

It's a micro debt is what you're signing up for. And if you read the fine print, they'll tell you. All righty, and thanks for the question.

Rant over. JR is in Atlanta. Up next, what's going on, JR?

Hey, George and Jade. I was just calling cuz me and my wife just built a house and we moved in at Christmas time.

And we love the house. We don't like the

lifestyle that the payment is going to make us live. >> Oh, no.

Well, our priorities changed from the time we started the process to now. Like my wife works. She runs her own business and I got in moved into the house and I just realized I want my wife to be able to stay at home with our kids.

>> Oh, no.

Based on our current payment, I I on my own job could not pay for the payment without her continuing to work.

So, I'm wondering what we should do next to kind of mitigate that risk or I mean, we are willing to live with the consequences that we have made for ourselves, but we'd like an option there. >> if she's it on your income,

you can't stay in that house.

Well, sorry. She would obviously have to continue to work and we're okay with her continuing to work if we have to, but if we have an option to do something else, I would love an outside opinion. Okay. I'll pitch that question back to you. So, you tell me tell me what your mortgage is every single month.

With the escrow, it's around $2,500 a month. $2,500. Okay. And if you if your

wife stopped working, what percentage of your take home would that mortgage become? About 50%. Okay. So, and then you've

told me, "Hey, also, not only would it be 50%, but I just wouldn't even be able to cover the payment at all." So, you tell me what the option is.

Um I think either we're going to have to let her continue to work and pay down the house and possibly refinance or I get a better paying job or we move. I think those are really the only three options. I just None of them are great. >> Yes. Okay, I just wanted you to say it so that I wasn't the bad guy. Right.

Right. And the truth is you finding more work uh that that's the thing that maybe allows you to kind of have the best of both worlds here. How likely is that to happen?

Um with my current career uh it's probably not very likely.

Uh I'm working on getting a CPA's license. So, when I finish that, I should probably could make it more realistic um to cover all of our bills and the mortgage, but in my current career field, it's pretty unlikely.

What's the timeline on the CPA deal?

Um probably about a year. Uh I can sit for my first exams this summer.

And will you be making six figures right out the gate?

Um where I live, CPAs are starting

between 70 and 80.

Okay, so that still won't get us there.

I mean that Well, we need like a take-home pay more like you know, 9 10 grand to make this make sense for you guys to carry this mortgage payment for the next decade.

Right. So, then the other option is if we can't get the income up, then we might need to move once your wife decides to stay home.

Right. So, I don't think anything's like on fire, but if you know, do you guys have kids now?

Yes, we have uh we have two very small children. Okay. Is there more on the way or is this it? Uh we would love to have some more, but we've kind of pushed pause on that until we can get our financials in order.

Okay. What's the house worth?

Uh we had it uh a real estate agent come and look. It was worth about 475. And you owe how much?

Uh a little over 300. Okay. So, you do have good equity in there. There's some good news in this picture. There's also the idea of her working part-time. Maybe it's not an all or nothing thing, but it's I pick up these extra hours, you

become the CPA. Do you see what I'm saying? Maybe it's the combination and we kind of go, "Hey, there's a year horizon on this. For the next year, you

you work and it's not ideal, but then once I can get into my CPA role, you can back down to part-time and that should close the gap and then I can continue to grow my income and fully step away." There might be kind of like a a very gradual transition that you can do. Okay. That makes good sense. That that uh Yes, that very That could be a good idea. Do you guys have debt outside of the mortgage?

Um, we owe about 8,000 to the IRS, but other than that, we are debt-free. Okay.

And what's your wife making in the business? Um, after taxes, she's probably doing between 130 and 150. Whoa. So, she's the

breadwinner here.

Yes. Okay. But, she's the one who wants to stay home. That's her dream?

Um, I would love for her to stay home. I think she could she wants to be home more, but I think uh she would be okay with working part-time. I would love for her to have the option to not work at all. It sounds like part-time is the move then because she said her wish seems to be like, "I don't want to be totally out, but I do want to be home more." That feels like the ticket because what you don't want is to tell somebody who wants to work a little bit that they can't work cuz then they're going to feel trapped.

It's the same It can go either way. You also don't want to tell somebody who wants to stay home, "Hey, you got to go to work." cuz then they're going to feel trapped there. So, I think that you guys still have some um conversations to have around this and you have time. Um, I would just set a timeline of like, "Hey, let's revisit this 6 months, a year from now and see where we're at.

Is it feasible for you to go part-time? Can you just stop working altogether based on what I'm making as a CPA now?" And I hope I really hope you guys get the dream of first thing home and you get to keep the house.

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All right, Jade. It's time for our scripture of the day. You know it. Sing it with me. This one comes from Ecclesiastes 7:12. The protection of wisdom is like the protection of money and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him who has it. Wow, I might need to read that again. Well, okay. Wow, yeah. >> it on my own time. Yeah, that'll take me a while to chew on.

Old Solomon there is long in the tooth.

A. A. Latimer said, "A budget is a mathematical confirmation of your suspicions." I love that so much.

>> I wish I had one of those names. You know what I mean? Like A. A. Latimer, G. K. Chesterton. I I call you G. K. Yeah,

I think G.K. But then you got to have a nice long cool name at the >> middle name? It's Peter. It's not that exciting.

Yeah, exactly.

G.P. Camel, that's not >> to say. Does it roll off the tongue? >> No one's written that guy's novel. G.P. Camel >> I'll work on it. I'll workshop it. All right, Michelle is in Springfield, Illinois. What's going on, Michelle?

Hey guys. Hey.

I am calling to find out about retirement.

Um how to when when the time comes, how

does that work when you withdraw, you

guys say 10% if you can live off of 10%?

How do you do that? Is it you withdraw

like the 10% and then

um hold back taxes or do you withdraw like 90% and leave the taxes in there pull it out when it's time to pay? Oh boy. So, let's roll back when >> it up, Terry. Let's go here to uh your age. What's your current age?

56 Okay, and you're talking about like 59 and 1/2 plus is when you're going to be pulling from retirement? >> Okay. What kind of retirement accounts do you have right now?

Uh just my 401k. Is it traditional or

Roth 401k? Traditional cuz I I when we

got a Roth one, I felt it was too late to change it over. Mhm. Okay. So, the

only retirement account you have is the traditional 401k?

Yeah, other than the kids' 529, uh

grandkids' 529. Okay. How much is in there? Uh in which one? The 401k, the traditional 401k.

>> Okay, and you're wanting to So, let me

let me roll back to what you first said, which is you guys say, you know, if you have have 10% that you're earning you can live off the interest. That really is a rule of thumb to kind of be thinking about do I have enough to retire? It's not precise.

>> It's not prescriptive to say you should withdraw 10% every month. >> No, it's just a way to think, "Hey, how do I kind of know that I'm in the realm that I might be ready and might have enough?" So, I want to be clear on that.

It's And I want to know if you're working with a Smart Investor Pro at all, or are you just doing this all yourself? >> newly. Um I actually go and do my 1-year

check at the end of April. Okay.

Um what I would do is I would at the next meeting, I would say how much do you think that I need to and

that I'm able to pull from this 401k to maintain my current lifestyle? And what I would do is I would come to that appointment with my current budget.

And I would say, "Here's what I'm spending every single month.

And here's what I receive, you know, or will receive from Social Security." And have all those numbers and then start projecting what would it look like for me to pull X amount of dollars, how much taxes would that be for me every year, and just ask how how

how we're going to do that and what that's going to look like so that you can begin to understand it and see if you agree or not with that strategy.

>> Okay. And they can project this all out to show you, "Hey, if you withdrew, let's say, $60,000 total per year in retirement based on what you have in the nest egg, here's likely where you'd end up. Here's when the money might run out, or here's how much you might have left over." And they can run all kinds of projections to give you a a big picture cuz the truth is we don't know what the future holds. We just know what history has shown us, which is that the stock market on average produced about 10-11%.

So, based on that, you got to take into account inflation, and then you got to take into account your actual expenses versus what your nest egg is. So, how much are you investing per month right now? Uh 15%. Of

what's the total number?

Um it's like What's your income?

>> 981 a month, I think. Okay. And you do you have an employer match?

Uh, yes. Okay, so how much extra is that on top of the 981?

Um, it's 3%.

Um Let's call it another 100 200 bucks.

>> so sorry. That's okay. I'm just guestimating for you. You and you said you had 250,000 in retirement? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, so if you can keep contributing that 1,100 in there from let's 56 to let's say 65, is that your game plan? >> Mhm. Yeah, or more. Okay. Let's put it 67.

That puts you at a million bucks in that nest egg. And that's with a 10% return.

So then the question becomes, all right, from 67, let's say you live a good long life to 97. We got 30 years to utilize

this million bucks plus social security.

And so they can then help you map out a plan for withdrawal. Obviously, you don't need to do that right now. We don't know what the future holds, but I would just keep I'd rather have too much than not enough. You know what I mean? Sure. Keep bumping it up as much as you can. So hopefully, you get your income up over time, you get the house paid off, then we increase and start maxing out these accounts, and you'll have well over a million plus social security.

That should give you a nice comfortable life. So thank you for the call. It's a great question. >> way to think about it. >> You're on the path to become a Baby Steps Millionaire. Eliana is in Chicago.

What's going on with you?

Yes, hi. Um So I have I have a $11,000 in stock.

I have 4,000 cash.

I also have a 2006 Chevy.

And I have to like four options to use the money. An eight and $8,000 credit card debt with no interest

until September. Okay.

So my question is, where to spend it? I

have four options. One, my home is a

1940 house, so I don't have AC. I have

window, which cost me a lot of money during the summer. I have the old-fashioned heat, but cost me a lot of gas.

My estimate to install a AC with heating

and plumbing was $10,000.

The quote. Okay. And then um my kids were invited by their grandparents to

our homeland, which cost around $10,000,

and they're going to pay for their tickets, but I have to be with them. So, that would set me back at least $4,000.

Just cost on tickets. Okay. So, you could do Okay.

>> I also I think I need a new car, and I

got a really nice deal.

Um but the car is going to cost me $16,000 that I don't have. So, I'm thinking of not paying the whole credit card. And it's the car cuz it's estimated for $24,000.

And It's not a deal if you can't afford it, though.

What What's the deal with >> And I can't even afford the insurance for the car, too. >> And you can't do that. >> not an option. What's the deal with your current car? You said you had a car. Is it Do you owe anything on it? Is it worth something? Tell us about the current car. Last Yeah, last year I

returned my Jeep Wrangler because um it was lease to own, and it

would it had a lot of recalls, and I couldn't uh pay the um maintenance $1,000 a year. I couldn't pay that. So, I got a 2006 Chevy, and it's fine,

but because it's approaching 200,000 mi, and my work is to go with therapist house to house, I'm afraid it's going to break down, and I'll need a new car. Has it broken down?

No. Okay. >> I maintain it. So, we're justifying a new car purchase based on the fact that once a car goes over 200,000 miles, they apparently die no matter what.

Or it's going to start breaking down.

And I don't want to buy a car out of need. Well, let's deal with our current problems versus the future ones that could and might happen. The current problem is we got 8,000 credit card debt that we can pay off today by selling off the stocks, right?

Yes. So you got 15K total liquid. Paying off the credit card brings us down to 7,000, right?

Yes. And now the question is what's the priority? You having AC as we enter the summer or going on a trip that you could go on at another time.

I could go on another time, but it's going to cost me an extra $10,000. And I don't even care for the trip, but my Is it because the kids won't be covered?

I would just tell them, "Hey, I can't afford to go on the trip because I have to go with them. I have to cover my share. I'm in a pickle here. I don't have AC. My car is on the fritz. I got credit card debt." And that's it. And so you prioritize the things that matter to your family right now the most, which is getting out of debt. Let's get the AC.

Let's get an emergency fund so that we get out of this cycle. That is the only path I would recommend out. Right now a trip is a luxury that you don't have, Eliana. Thank you for the call.

All right, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 17. Break The Debt Spiral And Regain Your Life | March 11, 2026


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>> [music] >> Normal is broken, common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host George Kamel, number one best-selling author and Ramsey personality, [music] co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Network. She's my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

[clears throat] Elizabeth is in Seattle. Hi Elizabeth, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm doing well. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I have a question about debt transfer cards. I've been following you for years and I know you always say don't do it, but I'm kind of at a loss. I don't really know where to go because we're drowning and can't make even our minimums because we have kind of a lot of debt. >> How much debt >> And two of our principals, we have 15,000 in credit cards.

>> How much other debt do you have?

>> Um, I'd say probably uh 13, just under 13 for our car and 35 for our school.

>> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Around 3,500.

>> Okay. You don't have a credit card problem, you have an income problem.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Why do you make 3 Who Who makes 3,500 and doing what? >> Between the the two of us, my husband and I, we both lost our jobs about a year ago, so we DoorDash, uh Spark Drive, and um substitute teach.

We're both also applying for more consistent jobs with uh consistent income. >> Yeah. You don't need to apply for these jobs, you need to get a job.

It's been a year. DoorDash does not support a family.

>> No. >> What were you guys doing before?

>> My husband worked as a CEO for a realtor

company and I worked in the ministry but my church closed down and I lost my job right as we had our child the same month

that he was born and then 3 months later my husband got fired from his job.

So very deep dive.

>> Yeah. >> We were making over 6,000 together at that point. >> Yeah, okay.

All right, that's where we concentrate on not trying to find some trick to cause $15,000 in credit card debt to go away. $15,000 will cause that to go away. That's what fixes it and so we need to go get $15,000 and that is about income

is what that's what's occurring to me as I'm talking to you. So um I think if I if I were you guys I would step back from the debt issue and step

forward into the career crisis.

And say both of us have got to land something immediately that is a substantial real job. Why did your husband get fired?

>> Uh they wanted to cut [clears throat] budget costs and they hired a like a management company rather than paying a CEO. >> Okay. All right.

And how large a company was he the CEO of? How many people were working there?

>> Um it was only him and one office staff but they serviced I think 50 realtors.

>> Mhm.

Okay and so he was doing administrative work for the real estate company.

>> Yeah. >> really more than a not not I mean the CEO is not really a proper title. I mean it's the title they gave him but I mean he's not running a huge organization or he's not running an organization even with 40 people because the real estate agents all work for themselves. They're just running helter-skelter and he's just trying to keep the thing he's hurting cats.

So okay. >> Literally. >> so what what would what was he doing before that?

>> And before that he worked for uh another real estate company as a project manager. Um then that role ended. They wanted to keep him on, but there wasn't It was for a specific project and it ended, so it >> Mhm. So, it sounds like he knows the real estate business and I'm wondering if there's some place in the real estate business that he lands and gets out of the DoorDash.

>> He He does >> real estate with the DoorDash part-time.

>> job. >> I'm sorry, say it again. >> Yeah. He is in the final process. He has an interview tomorrow for the final process of a job that he's getting, but it's half of what he was making, so we will still have to DoorDash, but it's a job.

It's something.

>> What will he be making?

>> Uh 60. >> Okay. >> He's making >> That's an upgrade. >> making >> Yeah, okay. That's a good start and then and then you've got to land something that you can do with a child and um with

a new baby and so forth that you can do from home and or work arounds of some kind, but Elizabeth, the deal is this, the $15,000 in credit card is very easily overcome once you guys get your income back to where it used to be.

>> Yeah. >> And then you just live on nothing. You don't go out to eat and you attack these credit cards with a vengeance cuz you remember how pissed off you were and how stressed off stressed out you were and you get rid of them, right? You can do that, but you can't do it on 3,500

uh you can, but it'll take forever.

Um and 3,500 is is really not It's It's not really [clears throat] not your world. It's just the world you found yourself in after a couple of uh tragic career situations. And now you

land back into good stuff and you look back in the rearview mirror 5 years from now and you go, "Well, that sucked. That was a period of time that sucked and I'm sure glad we're not living there anymore." But you go and clean up everything so that you do that. And don't use these credit cards for anything. >> Yeah, they're closed.

>> Good. >> cards are closed. We're just trying to get out from under it now. >> Yeah.

So, first thing is you take care of food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities.

You pay your rent, pay your house payment, pay your car payment if you've got one. You did have one. You had 13,000. And And you keep keep gas in the car and those kinds of things, but um and and the credit cards are down the list of things that we're going to do.

They're They're the last people they get paid on the list. >> It's an unsecured debt. >> Yeah. >> They're They can come after the car if you stop making the payments.

>> Yeah, and it's your transportation.

And so, let's get the cash flowing around here again and then just begin to clear these credit cards off in as fast as you possibly can. Ben is in Salt Lake City.

Hey, Ben, what's up?

>> Not much. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Hey, my question is more of like a career question. I have been a driver for UPS for the last 6 years.

And they have been tanking volume recently, dropping accounts, and just driving volume down. And I haven't been working a lot lately.

And now they're offering a $150,000

voluntary buyout offer to leave the company. >> That's exciting. >> And So, >> What were you making? >> I'm uh 44.73 an hour.

>> Okay. So, about 90k plus a year.

>> you going to do with your life now that you're not at UPS?

>> That's the million-dollar question cuz I'm 31. I >> The $155,000 question, yeah.

>> Yeah, it's hard. I don't know. Like, UPS is been great. They've had great benefits, great pay, and they sure taken care of my family, but if I pivot and go to a different career, I'm going to take a significant pay cut.

>> And why?

>> I'm Um just cuz I've been looking and applying for jobs and had interviews and just anything pivoting from what I'm making currently is just going to be a pay cut right off the bat. >> Well, what what do you want to do with your life that makes $100,000 a year?

Let's go be one of those.

>> Yeah, you know, I've always had a you know a driving passion to you know, go to police academy, but doing ride-alongs and talking with local officers it's not so much a guaranteed thing cuz a lot of people with military backgrounds, degrees in criminal justice >> Let's not figure out what we can't do.

Let's figure out what we can do.

>> You got a little launch pad here if you take this buyout. But let's not sit on >> not going to I'm not going to go take a dumb down job. Let's use this as a chance to go live your dreams. What is the dream you want to be? Now go be that and use some of this $155,000 to get tooled up to do it.

>> [music]

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Bruce is in Columbia, South Carolina.

Hey Bruce, how are you?

>> I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Well, um I'm 64 years old and I've been working for 46 years.

And I have a little different alignment on retirement than my wife does.

And I have a lot more debt than I should have for somebody that's made the kind of money I have.

And I'm trying to figure out how to pay

down over $230,000 in debt uh and within the next year and possibly get retired by 65.

>> Okay. Where are you going to get $230,000?

>> Well, my income is I I make 100 and around $60,000 a year.

>> Mhm. >> But the problem is is my wife's income

is around $30,000 a year.

>> Mhm. >> And we have 20,000 plus in credit card debt.

And $12,000 on a on a car.

My mortgage is 118,000. I have a second

mortgage at 36,000.

>> Mhm. >> And I've been paying down the credit cards, but every time I turn around and look, it's higher than it was 6 months ago. >> How'd that happen?

>> Well, not enough boundaries, not enough conversation.

Um I'm I'm trying to get myself in a

position >> money saved? Do you have a nest egg?

>> Um I I have a 401k with

about 310,000.

Um I have an IRA that's

between my Roth and my traditional IRA,

it's 425,000.

Um the Roth part portion of that's only about 55,000.

>> Yeah. So, you're not you're not going to retire with 230,000 paid off in 1 year.

You don't have the money.

And and your spending your household spending's out of control.

So, even if you did retire debt free, the debt's going to come back.

>> Yeah, I I'm coming to that realization.

>> guys can't live on 160,000. How are you going to live on retirement income?

What would be your retirement income?

>> Well, probably about half of that. >> Yeah. You can't live on 160, you can't live on 80, agreed?

>> Right. Yeah. >> And the nest egg's not big enough to support retirement at 65. not.

>> it's it's a a good nest egg, but it's not a great one.

Um so, yeah, I mean, it sounds like you guys have never really addressed the issue and the two of you are going to have to sit down and go, "Hey, we're up a creek here.

We've got to cut up these credit cards and we got to get rid of these card debts and we got to get this mess cleaned up or we're going to be working till we're 80." >> Yeah, and I I The only other income I have is I do have an annuity.

>> Why do I think you're not going to do that cuz you just completely change directions after I told you what to do?

>> No, I 100% agree with you.

>> married?

>> Um 36 years.

>> is a come-to-Jesus meeting I'm talking about.

We're going to sit down and go, "This is

broken and we are going to fix it starting now."

That's the meeting tonight. No televisions on.

Nothing in the background. No dishes being washed while we're talking about it. This is we are screwed and we have

screwed ourselves and we have to fix

this now and never go back to the old ways. We're going to get on a budget. We're going to open that Ramsey EveryDollar app and the two of us are going to start acting like grown-ups, not like a couple of children in Congress spending money we don't have. We're going to cut up the credit cards and we're going to clean up this freaking debt so we don't have to work till we're 80.

And then you get yourself used to living on $80,000 a year while you pay off all

this debt and then when you retire, you can live on $80,000 a year because you've got a a couple of adults in the household instead of children.

And children can be 64, by the way.

So, um that that's what I mean but but you've you've kind of think keep thinking you're going to treat the symptom rather than the problem. And the problem is is that you guys spend more than you make and you don't have a system and you're not in in line and you're not agreed in your marriage after 36 freaking years on how we're going to do this. And so this is going to run off until you're 90 and you're going to be eating dog food.

And this is where this is headed. So, you've got to go back you've got to go to the source of the problem which is not her, it's both of you but it includes her. And so she's going to get to hear a word that you haven't told her in a long time. And here's the word, no.

We're not doing that.

We are broke people.

And you have to start acting that way or you're going to you know, this thing's going to fall in on you. And that's what you're starting to feel and there's sense of desperation creep creeping up inside of you.

I don't know if you're going to do it or not. >> I keep thinking about that old Dave quote, you work too hard to feel this broke. 46 years of a career making six figures which is way more than most Americans and you got nothing to show for it and that breaks my heart cuz we know retirement is not an age, it's a financial number. And so I wish you could just ding a hey, I'm 65 time to retire. Not if the math says you can't.

And so that's the hard truth. It's been 36 years of compounded bad decisions.

It's going to take a little while to clean this up and you guys need to be unified. >> Emma's in Los Angeles. Hi Emma, how are you? >> I'm good. Thanks for helping me out today. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so my husband and I were wondering if it's a good idea to pull from our

Roth IRA to pay off the rest of my student loan debt.

>> No.

>> Okay, that's what I thought. >> You don't sound like you're of retirement age. It's going to cost you millions and millions of dollars in the future, you. So, how much student loan debt have you guys got?

>> Uh it's about 9,300 and that's just um

my student loan and it's our only debt we have left. >> 9,300?

>> Mhm. >> Like $9,300?

>> Correct. >> What do you guys make?

>> Um we are on a variable income. Um my husband is is a steady income, so he makes about 5,600 and then my income varies from anywhere from like nothing to 12,000 a month. Um I'm a wedding videographer and so it just depends on the season that I'm in as far as like if I have a wedding or not. >> Okay. All right. How many times do you have a $12,000 month?

>> Uh last year I had about three or four of those. Um this year I haven't had one yet. >> You guys Can you guys live on his income and just pay off the student loan the next time you have a good month?

>> It's possible. Yeah. Um my work is very slow right now, so we're in kind of like a tricky season with that. >> I know, but I mean as soon as you get as soon as you get a a $12,000 month, just pay the stupid thing off.

>> Yeah, I think we could probably manage that. Yeah. >> It sounds like your spending is just been high. You can't be counting on your income cuz it's too volatile.

>> Correct. Very correct. Yeah.

>> So, where does your income go when it does come?

>> Um our expenses are not covered fully by

my husband's income. >> Okay, so you can't live on his income.

Okay. >> Not fully. >> Why are the expenses so high?

Is it your mortgage or rent or what?

Cuz it's not the debt. >> Um Yeah, I mean our rent is

kind of high. I mean not ridiculous for the area, but it's um about 2,800. Um

and then between just insurance, we have two kids. Um Um Yeah, it just adds up. We're We're in the process of like refining things and trying to get really really serious, especially since my income has been so scary lately. >> Yeah, good.

I would make a budget and pretend like you have to live on his income and cut the expenses down until you can fit that. Yeah, I I would I'd get it get your every dollar budget out and then that takes the pressure off of your business and when your business starts making a little you have one of those good months again, you just blink pay off student loan. But no, I would not the student loans are not your problem.

not living on his income and your income's not dependable.

And that's what's throwing you guys into a tizzy.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> Ever want to see the person who's calling to ask a question? Ever wonder what they look like when they're calling here and asking?

Be kind of interesting, wouldn't it?

Yeah. Well, you can experience this. The Ramsey Show is going back on tour. We're going to do live Q&A with the audience and tape one of these shows. Raw confessions, crowd debates, local debt-free screams. Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim all in April. These

are small venues. We're only having about 300 seats cuz we want to be able to talk to you guys and take questions from you. Uh last last time we put this out last year it sold out in 72 hours. So, get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on a podcast or on YouTube.

Again, Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim in April just in a few weeks here and we're going to be in those cities and taking questions live studio audience. It's a different vibe, I'll tell you that. But, it's also kind of fun, isn't it, George? >> I love being out there.

We've got some even more fun interactive stuff planned for this next run. >> Kelly is in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Kelly. How are you?

>> Hey, guys. I'm good. How are you today?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> I have a question. I listen to your show all the time and get some of your feedback that I internalize, but my fiance [snorts] and I got engaged last November and we planned our wedding for

April of 2027.

We were looking to buy a house hopefully in the next couple of months. We have the money put away for it. We >> Why are you waiting to get married so long?

>> Couple of reasons. One, we wanted to focus our money effort towards the home

first. And then my my brother and his brother

are also both getting married.

Um One in April this year, one in September this year. So with the help from our parents for our wedding, they're both gifting us a little bit of money to have a bigger and more fun wedding. So we

>> How how how how how old are you two?

>> more sense. I'm 26 and my fiance's 29.

>> Okay.

>> [sighs and gasps] >> I would beg you to not buy a house with someone that you're not married to.

>> So would it be worth it then to go to a courthouse and get married before we buy a house? >> Yes. >> And then just have the the wedding next year? >> Yes.

>> Okay. >> It change it changes it changes so many things because I I've I've just I sitting here in this seat taking calls from people that have problems with their money have uh run into so many different ways that they can go sideways cuz basically from a legal standpoint, you've just got a general partnership with no partnership documents.

And so if something goes sideways, like I'll I'll give you a horrible one. This is not going to happen to you guys, okay? But um A guy and his fiance um b- bought a house together and she died in a car wreck and so without a will.

And so now he owns the house with her mother.

>> Okay. >> Cuz he's not kin to her, so the her half was left to her only remaining kin. And by the way, her mother was crazy.

>> Oh. >> So, my crazy future didn't happen mother-in-law is now my partner in a house. Does that make you That makes me throw up just a little bit in my mouth, right?

You follow me? >> that's a little scary. >> Yeah, that's the kind of That's the kind of crap we've talked to over the last 30 years, and so we don't want that for you. And And so, yeah, I'd do the courthouse and do the celebration later.

Because now we've got a situation.

Um it's also okay to wait after you've

been married a while to buy a house. You guys maybe not. You've kind of got this plan unfolding here. I'm with you. But we always laugh and say marriage is different than shacking up, and it takes about a year of being married to know how close to your mother-in-law to buy.

>> Yeah, and I hear that because I live with my in-law and my future in-laws right now. >> Is that driving I think that's driving this decision. You're like, "Get me out of here." Okay, yeah, courthouse >> yes. Part of it, no.

We were going to consider renting. >> Yeah, you could you could go rent You could go rent something, but courthouse and and rent for a year and then buy is ideal. Uh courthouse and buy after the courthouse is next best thing. Please do not buy a house for someone you're not married to, people.

It is a disaster. I mean, there's there's just no way you can break up. I mean, at least when you're married, the divorce you know, there are laws that dictate how things are split up, and judges will dictate how things are split up.

in a divorce situation. But But when you're just you're shacking up and you own a house with somebody you used to sleep with, it's just really a pain in the butt. >> Never seen it be a blessing to somebody when they call in. >> Yeah, it's just a problem problem problem. So, there we go. Good stuff.

Spencer's in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Spencer.

What's up?

>> Hey, Dave. Um I My question So, I'm 24

years old. I'm in college.

And I unfortunately have about $15,000

in credit card debt, which I am planning to pay off this summer with a a good internship I landed.

>> Good. >> The problem is my parents are pretty adamant that once I pay off this debt, they want me to rebuild my credit and kind of dive back into the debt world to build up my credit, and I'm kind of worried about that.

>> So, you want to fight off the lion, and then your parents are saying, "Hey, jump back in the lion's den. It's good for you." >> Pretty much. >> Makes sense.

>> Yeah. >> So, are they paying your way through college?

>> They are helping, yes. Yep.

>> Okay. All right.

Um well, I mean, there there's a couple things here. One is uh if they're paying for your school and you live with them, uh you have a different level of obligation to uh you know, to honor them and to be kind and to so forth, right? If you're standing on your own and you're out of school and you're doing your own thing and your mom and dad still have an opinion, it's they don't get to vote anymore. That's how that Not how this works.

So, uh but then the second part of the discussion is, "What's wrong with their theory?" Okay?

the the idea that you need to go get credit means that they believe that the

best way to have a wonderful life

is to purchase things and stay in debt

the rest of your life. That that's the best way for you to get things and to have a good life. They believe that.

>> Yeah. >> And their theory is wrong.

Their belief is wrong. And and and and that's at the core of the discussion.

So, they don't They're not bad people.

They're not trying to punish their son or do something bad to their son. They actually do believe a lie

that the best way for you to have a good life is for you to have good credit so that you can buy anything you want anytime you want on payments.

>> Right. Well, then so how do I have this conversation with them? Cuz cuz I think I mean I obviously agree with you and and I think they would normally agree with you. Like they're they're not terrible with their money. They're always um, you know, telling me to stay out of debt and stuff, but they they just kind of tell >> to build credit, Mom and Dad, and that is to go into debt.

And I am really don't like debt.

And so I really am not going to build my credit because I really don't want to be in debt.

It's the only reason to build your credit. It has no other value.

>> Yeah. And if you want more info on this, I wrote a whole chapter on this in my book covering every single objection. So you can read that and then have the conversation with them. Say, "Hey, I know you're worried about me getting an apartment. There's easy ways around that. I know you're worried about me not being able to get a mortgage one day.

There's a way around that." And so you just have to realize you can rise above the system instead of being stuck in the hamster wheel. >> Yeah, hang on. We'll send you a copy of that book and read it. And it might might be fun to say, "Hey, listen, I just read this chapter.

You guys read this chapter with me and tell me what you think." And because I just don't I I don't want to be in debt, Mom and Dad.

your interaction with debt.

It's an I love debt score.

If you don't borrow money, you don't have a FICO score.

Ta-da! Just like that. >> And I've lived it. I mean I paid off my debt, didn't have a score, still was able to rent apartments all over town, even ones with a landlord, not a apartment complex. I was able to get a mortgage through manual underwriting.

And everyone told me, Dave, "Oh, it's going to be so difficult. You're like you're going to have to jump through so many hoops. You're going to be exhausted." It was a nothing burger.

It was just like, "Well, you don't have a criminal background? Can you pay the deposit? All right.

You're in. >> Yeah. >> You have the money to pay the mortgage?

Great. You got a tax return and 12 months of rental history? Great.

It's not that difficult.

>> Yeah. But, the only reason to get credit is so you can get into debt so that you can get credit so that you can get into debt so that you can get credit so that you can get into debt so you can raise your FICO score so you can get into debt so you can raise your FICO score so you can get into debt.

I think it's a scam, boys and girls.

>> Groundhog Day, and only the lenders win.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> Ed is in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi Ed, how are you? >> I'm good. Mr. Dave, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thanks, Dave. So, my question is,

I've got around 300,000 in equity in my home, and I've got a total of 240,000 in

debt with 140 of that being the mortgage. Some pretty bad debt within 100k.

And I should I should I sell my house to get out of debt, start over? I'm 43. I have zero retirement. The house is my retirement. I've had a really rough couple of years, some pretty tough events have happened.

And I'm trying to get out of this financial prison, if you will, and there's no money left over to save, and I just don't know what to do. Should I sell the house, refinance the house, stay put, and just try to do the snowball? >> What's your household income?

>> Combined with my wife, it's 140,

with me bringing in 100 and her bringing in 40. The only caveat to that is after my employer paid health insurance, which is 1,700 a month, I'm taking home about 5,000 after taxes.

>> Mhm.

Okay. And but you're getting a tax refund.

>> That's another thing. I owe the IRS 7,000 that I'm making payments on that I have left from being my wife being self-employed all the way back to '22 that we're making payments on, so my tax refund goes to that. >> Okay. >> But that should be paid by the this year's tax refund with my monthly payments. I'm really hoping to have that paid off by the end of the year. >> Yeah. Okay.

And how much do you owe on your truck?

>> Uh 39,000.

>> And that's out of the 100.

>> Yes, sir. >> Sell the truck.

>> I'm 10,000 upside down. I would have to put come out of pocket to be able to sell it. Now, I just don't have it. But that would >> Still beats selling a house.

Yeah. You buy You borrow You know, go go to the credit union, borrow the 10K, and then get you a $2,000 car to drive while you get this mess cleaned up. But 40% of your problem is the truck.

Okay. So, find a way to get the 10K to get out of the truck. >> Yeah, I mean, go go to the credit union, borrow it, or who's the Who's Do you owe the money to on the truck?

>> Ally Financial.

The only problem with that, Dave, is my credit took a hit after We had a house fire in '23, and the insurance paid 80

less than what it cost to build, and I had 40 of that, but I had to beg, borrow, rob Peter to pay Paul to find the other 40, which I did, but my credit took such a hit during that time that I'm in the rebuilding phase of my credit.

>> I don't want you to rebuild your credit. Ally is a subprime lender. They're screwing you. You have a 16% interest rate, don't you?

>> It's not that bad. It's uh >> Only 14.

>> It's It's not in the half. They do prime as well. They have a subprime program. I work in automotive finance.

>> Yeah. Well, you you're um you're getting destroyed by that car.

And by the 9 and 1/2. That That's you know, and you can't You can't keep doing that in the name of {quote} rebuilding your credit to for the opportunity to borrow money again.

So, I'm trying to break the spiral without selling the house. And I'd sell a car 14 times for I'd sell a house.

>> The house isn't the problem, and it sort of doesn't change the behavior if you do sell it that got you into this mess.

And then you still got to go rent somewhere, don't you?

>> Yes, sir. And that's that's horrible, too, cuz it's going to cost double what my mortgage is. It's just getting my hands on the 10K. >> get a hold of this amazing income you guys have and just clean this mess up.

You sell the truck, you got 61 left making 140. Now, it's an easy math problem.

Let's live like we're broke for a year. >> right. You could You do have to scratch up the 10 grand, but you scratched up 40 grand to get a house fire redone. And um

you know, and that made part of this mess as well. So, I would rather have 10K on a credit card than I would have 40 on a truck.

And um you know, you That's a That's moving in the right direction then. And again, get you a hoopty. That's not real popular when you're the finance manager at a new car dealership, but I don't really care. Um you know, I don't care what your buddies think about what you drive.

I care about you and you winning. And so, appearances are not not something I'm willing to invest in at any stage of wealth building, but certainly not where you are at. So, yeah, you've got to do something to break the cycle and I don't I think selling the house is awfully desperate when you're sitting on a $40,000 truck. So, I'm finding a way to get that 10K and I'm getting rid of that thing.

Uh Austin is with us in Nashville.

>> Hey Dave, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Good deal. Yes. So, I'm recently engaged. Um my fiance will graduate from

grad school in May of this year and we're getting married in May of 2027.

Um my question for you is is together,

um currently we have about $50,000 in savings and we'd be going into our marriage with about $100,000 worth of debt. Um 50%

would be her student loans and 50% would

be on a fairly low interest rates um

piece of equipment for my business. My question is, is it smart to use some of

our savings or all of our savings X Y or

Z to pay off one of the loans or should

we hold on to the savings and pay up pay

the loans off first? >> There's there's not a we or an hour.

You're not married.

>> Okay. >> You don't pay somebody's bills that you're not married to.

>> Well, I guess I'm looking, you know, next year when we are married.

>> don't you just get married? What are you waiting on?

>> Well, we're waiting just uh

I guess we're waiting to get married. Um >> Why? >> But Well, you know, we're going >> You're already playing house and acting like you're married. What what's the big deal?

>> Oh, no, we're not playing house. Uh she and >> said we have savings.

>> Oh, well, I was just saying collectively. >> Okay. >> You know >> Well, you guys individually individually if you want to live to continue to live separate lives until May of '27 when you're married and you work on you getting your debt paid off, she works on her getting her debt paid off. Uh she would use her savings towards that and you would use your savings towards yours. Until there's a we until there's a we.

At the point there's a we, we combine everything and we attack it together.

Combine incomes and everything else. What's her degree in?

>> Uh speech therapy. >> Good. Okay. Excellent.

So, she'll be able to make some good income to offset the student loan she took out, right?

>> Correct. >> Yeah, good. And let's get that done.

>> that's what we're looking at and, you know, and my business is going well, too. Um but I guess just the big thing is is is how obviously we want to, you know,

knock our debts out as quickly as possible or individually, you know, that's that's the goal. But should we take out of savings to do so or

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> And you should stop adding to savings until you get the debt cleaned up cuz the debt is sucking the marrow out of your cash flow. Your most powerful wealth building tool is your income.

And you're writing checks every month to other people instead of to yourself.

>> Okay. >> And that keeps you from building wealth.

And so your your first impediment, your first block blocker for building wealth is the debt. So when you clear the debt, you don't have any payments in the world. Now we got money.

And then we build an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses and then we start putting 15% of our income away towards retirement and pretty soon you'll be a millionaire doing that.

But you've got to get rid of all these stupid payments and talking about interest rates and I don't give a crap about the interest rates. My interest rates are zero cuz I haven't had a debt in 30 years.

And so that's my interest, zero. I got you beat. >> And that risk on the business is is bigger than you think. All it takes is a few bad months. Now you can't pay your equipment >> equipment payment. >> get that call a whole bunch. Hey, the business failed but I still owe a bunch of money on this equipment. What do I do? And you're selling it for pennies on the dollar trying to clean up the mess.

So I would move forward cleaning up this debt and maybe by the time you're married you both are debt free. How cool would that be? That's an idea. >> No, okay. Now that that and then >> Use some of the savings and future income and >> But only after you're married do you combine everything and when you come home from the honeymoon now we have debt and now we have savings and now we have

a dog and now we have until then it's your dog.

Until then it's your problem, right? And of course the dog pees on the floor then it's your dog. So it doesn't matter even if you're married. So That That's how that works. Look at what your dog did. Yeah.

>> And And to which I say look at what your daughter did. But yeah.

>> [laughter] >> Now who's who's cleaning up the mess in the in the Ramsey house? >> The dog. >> Bella the bear dog is my responsibility.

>> And Sharon made that clear.

>> Uh yeah, just cuz Bella of bear dog eats Sharon's >> Oh. >> And so >> That's definitely your problem. >> the bear dog stays on serious probation

at all times.

>> You got a line item in the earbud budget. >> or fifth set of earbuds for my wife recently, yeah.

>> Yeah. Who, would you please put those things where the dog can't get to them? >> Is it still in the dog? Is it still in >> it the dog's fault? >> Is it passing through or is it still in the dog? >> I have no I I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about >> That's someone else's problem.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

>> Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

>> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. >> Me, too.

>> They [clears throat] don't know what to do next. >> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

Take care of your dadgum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or

call 800-356-4282.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Kamel, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, [music] and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Network, is my co-host today. Nate is in Nashville. Hi Nate, how are you?

>> I'm doing good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um, I'm an independent songwriter and music producer. Um, so my income is, uh, very inconsistent, and I've had a lot of good years and and a lot of bad years. Um, so me and my wife have been okay with that kind of inconsistency in the income, um, until last year in December,

um, our baby, uh, had to be delivered extremely prematurely.

Um, and at the same time my wife was diagnosed with lupus. Um, so both, um,

our baby and my wife has been in the hospital, you know, uh, pretty much all throughout the beginning of this year. Um, and with all of this kind of, uh, medical uncertainty basically that we're we're going into with this, um, I'm trying to figure out if, um, I have

the option to do something called a catalog sale, which in music is is kind of like selling a business. It's just, um, getting a lump sum for all of the songs, um, that I've that I've made. Um,

and I have the option to do that, and I'm kind of wondering if it's a smart move to just, um, take the sale, um, and

invest that money and live off of the the interest, um, or, uh, if I should just keep working and, um, try to maybe find a way to make my income a little more consistent.

>> Yeah. Nate, I'm sorry you guys are going through this. It rocks your world when the baby's sick. And when mama's sick, too, it's double. That's a tough tough thing. And it And then And when you're an artist, it particularly is rocky.

So, um as you guys as you know, I'm in Nashville, and so I've got lots and lots of friends in the business that have sold catalogs. And so, I'm fairly familiar with [clears throat] it.

Um typically what happens in your world is

that your the money that you make from the songs um is the value that the catalog has.

Right? >> Right. >> And so, what typically happens as you

know, and everybody else knows if you think about it, is when a song comes out, and particularly if you get a good hit, um it'll peak within a few months.

And then uh depending on how big a hit

it is, it'll continue to feed out and pay out, but gradually the the payout deteriorates over time on every song.

Agreed? >> Yes. Yes, that's correct. Yeah. >> Okay. So, as it goes up, big nice thing, big splash, everybody's smiling, everybody's happy. We collect a statue or two, and then we go on and start But then the the income associated with a hit from 5 years ago is way different than the income associated with a hit this year. Um and and so, what you're trying to figure out is is uh And that's how they value the catalogs. They value them based on what they think they can make on it over time.

Right? >> Yep. >> And and so, they're looking at that deterioration.

And and and so, any anything you write the year after you sell the catalog is yours. You're not selling your future hits. You're only selling the past ones. And so, that block of income starts at one

level and goes down every single year

when they buy that catalog. Right?

>> Right. >> Yes. >> And so, that that's how they're valuing it. So, that's also how you make the decision as to whether you want to keep it or not. Some artist friends of mine want to keep it just because those songs are like their babies. They don't want to let them go.

They're [clears throat] very attached to them emotionally. >> It's like a legacy for them. >> Yeah, and others others view it on a pure business factor and go, you know, I can get X number of million dollars for this thing and I'm going to keep on in the business and I'll make my future there, but this gives me a lump sum to stabilize my life, which is sounds like kind of how you're thinking. So, what are they offering you for the catalog?

>> Um it would be around 4 million.

>> Good. Oh, you've done a great job.

Congratulations. You've had some good stuff, man. All right.

>> How old are you?

I'm 33. >> Yeah. >> What was a good year for you? Like what are you normally making in a year?

Um well, my last year was my best year um and I I made just about a million um and that's why I'm a little bit not sure because if I do a a deal with an LTM deal, which is the last 12 months, I would get like a about a times four um on my catalog sale. Um but I'm also not

sure like if I continue to write, maybe I can make that number go up and then my catalog sale could be worth, you know, >> nothing to say you couldn't sell another catalog. >> That's true. >> You know, it's just this is one block of songs, one library. Okay? Um and so but

here's the deal, okay? So, if you got 4 million today, but you would get a million next year and 800 the next year, would you rather have that stream of income? Cuz that stream of income's going to be there.

>> Right. >> Um and so, you know, what I would say is if you project that you're going to make a fourth of this in the coming 12 off of this catalog,

uh I'm probably keeping that.

>> Okay. >> Because you're going to get a million of the 4 million right now and so we're only got a $3 million swing and what have you got $3 million for?

You're going to get that 3 million in the next 5 years.

>> Yeah. Yeah, [clears throat] I think just with the um just seeing how crazy these swings can be in music um and just you know, not not having that certainty especially with >> Well, it's not it's it's not a it's not a horrible deal and it's a fairly standard process. Like you said, they're doing about 4x on the LPM. So, that's that's not a that's that's a fairly standard formula and they're not ripping you off.

with $4 million in an investment which if you put it in a good investment it'll make you 400,000 a year.

>> Right. >> And forever. >> And that's without you >> forever >> producing future income. >> Yeah. And and and on top of that then and you've got that for your baseline to operate your household on and relax and then you still you still go to work every day. You still go down there and sit and write every day like you were desperate and broke and hungry.

>> Mhm. >> But you're not desperate and broke and hungry anymore, but you still write like that. You still work like that.

Because my experience with the songwriters is it's you know, you have to go to work every day.

>> Yeah. >> It's not it's not random. You guys you guys grind those things out most of the time, right?

>> Uh yeah and then you know, I haven't been able to do as much this year. I really haven't been able to do much at all just with the medical situation and so that's >> Yeah, but I'm I'm not talking about I'm not I'm not shaming you about that. What I'm talking about is just because you've got $4 million in a mutual fund doesn't mean you can quit work.

>> Right. Absolutely. >> When mom and baby are healthy and you're ready to go back to work, go back to work, Nate. You've got a talent, go use it. >> Okay. >> Don't get lazy because you got 400k or four $4 million and you're making 400k.

>> Do you believe you're talented enough to go create another million dollar year in the future? >> question. If he built that catalog, he can do it.

>> Yeah, I I I think I think I can I think I'd be able to do it. >> I'm I'm just putting myself in your shoes. I'm taking the deal. >> Yeah, I am, too.

>> I like what it does for you. It stabilizes your life. You got a family to responsible for. You're not just a kid with a guitar and a in a room with too much coffee.

You know, you're this is there's you now got other stuff going on. So, I'm with you, man. I think >> the volatility of the stock market over the volatility of the music industry.

>> Oh, no, it's it's not it's not that volatile. It's very predictable. It's going to go down. >> Yeah, exactly. [laughter] >> It's very predictable. We just talked about the stream of income deteriorates.

>> The S&P 500 has only gone up over time.

>> Yeah, yeah, Sean. I'm going to I'm going to take 400k a year off of that 4 million, live on that or 300k and live on that, and let that sit there. Get with a Smart Vestor Pro.

Um, you know, click at Ramsey Solutions Nate and get sit down with one of the folks we recommend. They'll sit down, put together, and believe me, they're in Nashville. They've worked with catalog sales before, too. They they know what it is. It's a fairly you know, in our in our community, we're in a music community, that's a fairly common occurrence.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

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Brandy is in Tulsa. Hi, Brandy. How are you? >> I'm good, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my husband and I, um, we together

have about $65,000

in debt. 50,000 of that is our auto

loan, which is about a thousand a month.

And we're barely staying current on it.

Um, we are behind on rent, which just

started in February.

Um, the deal with that was that we were working a job where we got the house for free. Um, and now, but the job only paid like

a thousand dollars a month.

So, obviously not sustainable. Our bills are about 3,800 a month. Um, he does have a

new job now that is bringing in $3,600 a

month as of February 1st.

Um, so, we are behind on rent. Um, barely

staying current on the car.

Um we have not filed taxes yet. We should be doing that this week.

Um our plan is to get um current on rent. Um

and then about half of that we owe um the last boss we had about half of We're

expecting about um 5 to 6,000 um return. So, we're going to owe him about half of that. Um >> For what? >> So, we're just wondering like how do we get that? >> owe him thousands of dollars, the guy you worked for?

>> We well, my husband accidentally broke a

piece of equipment that resulted in about that much to fix it.

>> Yeah, but that doesn't mean your husband is reli- is Did he borrow the equipment or was he operating the equipment while he was being employed?

>> He was operating the equipment while being employed. Uh my husband is >> Why does that make your husband liable?

>> He feels bad for breaking the equipment

cuz the owner >> That doesn't make him liable.

You're broke.

I don't care how bad he feels.

Okay, if George drops his computer that I own on the way out of the studio today and breaks it, George does not have to pay for it. >> Yes.

>> [laughter] >> Okay. >> That's how it works. That's how it works when you have That's how it works when you have employees. >> Did he sign some agreement saying that he's liable for any accidents or damages?

>> Not yet. He did tell him that he wants

to pay him that that he felt he's owed that >> Why? >> He did come to us with an agreement.

>> Why? >> Um Why on what basis does an employer think

the employee has to pay for broken equipment?

What was the what's the found the moral foundation of this? This is cray-cray.

>> I think it was just my husband's um >> stupidity.

This is a month of his pay. You guys Okay. Number one, the landlord is on

hold. Period. I mean the the former boss, if if you ever pay him, it's not going to be anytime soon. Number one. Number two, >> Okay. >> sell this stupid butt car.

This car is insanity.

What is this thing? >> So, I do have a question on that now that you bring that up. Um it is a 2025

uh Dodge Durango.

>> I I got it. I got it.

>> Yeah, we bought it last year

when we were making about $5,000 a month

and we had that job for about a year and a half. >> That doesn't mean you need to be stupid.

>> I know. >> $50,000 [laughter] Dodge Durango for $1,000 a month?

It's killing you.

>> How far under water are you on this thing? >> It is worth by Kelley Blue Book about

26,000, so half.

>> How is that even possible?

You guys drive this thing to the ground already in a year?

>> We drive about 35,000 miles a year.

>> Why?

>> Um during that time we were traveling more for work and we traveled about a

round trip uh 200 and something miles >> trade a car that was upside down into this deal?

>> I'm sorry? >> Did you trade a another deal another car that was upside down into this deal?

>> over negative equity? >> Because even at 35,000 miles a Dodge Durango should not have lost half of its value in 1 year. They suck, but they don't suck that bad.

>> Yeah, so we had about $10,000 of negative equity in on the old vehicle that we rolled into it. >> that makes more sense. >> 40 down to 26 cuz you drove it to the ground. Okay, that makes more sense at least. >> [snorts] >> Woo. Is there any other debt?

>> Um we have 9,000

uh about 9,400 about 5,500 of that is personal loans

and the rest is credit. >> Okay. All of that's on hold until you get your rent current and keep your truck current until you figure out a way to get out of this truck. And the land >> [clears throat] >> and the ex-employer does not get any of your tax refund until you are out of debt.

And even then they probably don't get any money. They're you you do not pay for broken equipment when you work for someone.

That's not how life works.

Okay? If I own if I own a heavy equipment operation, I got six bulldozers, and one of the guys breaks a bulldozer, he doesn't have to pay for it. I have to pay for it. I'm the owner.

That's how it works. >> Okay. The owner's taking the risk here.

>> The owner takes the risk. That's how owning a business is. And even if the guy uh you know, made a mistake and tore it up,

it's still on the owner, not on the employee. And so what you guys are engaging in, I don't I don't understand the moral code by which you've come to this decision or your husband thinks he's liable. He's not. Not There's no code I've ever been around that says he's liable.

>> He might feel guilty, but he's not liable. >> bad for tearing up the guy's stuff. That that he should do. That's an honorable man, but that does not make you need to pay for it.

And for sure you don't pay for it when your rent's not current and you can barely pay your car payment.

And don't get behind on those things again. And uh never again.

Never again buy a car on debt.

The rest of your life.

This should be the last one.

Because you guys are handcuffed. This thing has a gun to your head. You you have nowhere to go.

And I'm not sure how you're going to get out of this truck. It's a mess.

You're going to need to save up the difference. Yeah, you got two bad deals tied together here and you're at 50% you know, sub. I don't know I don't know how you're going to do that. >> He's going to need to make a whole whole lot more money and I don't know if you're working outside the home, but I think you're going to need to get a job as well.

>> Yeah, you guys are all going to have to be working all the time for the next 3 years to clean up a lot of this mess. But you got you cuz everything you've touched has gone backward for the last 2 years. You've gone back you've gone deeper in the hole, deeper in the hole, deeper in the hole and you got to turn that around and income turns that around and then stop doing ridiculous decisions turns that around.

You've got to stop that.

It's just destructive.

And and so oh man, what a mess.

>> We're seeing a higher and higher percentage of people taking on car loans over a thousand dollars. It just keeps going up. >> And let me let me also tell you guys out there this is second or third time today that we've taken these calls.

So here's your order of priority.

And you do not violate this order of priority. The first thing you do with money that comes into your household, without exception, you buy groceries.

Not restaurants.

You buy groceries for your family. Your family eats before they before you do anything.

The next thing you do is you keep the lights and the electricity on.

You have to have that to operate.

And almost everyone in No, even in a horrible crisis can put the money together to do those two things.

The next thing you do is you stay current on the rent. So, you're not freaking homeless.

You stay current on your mortgage, you stay current on the rent. Period.

The next thing after the rent is current is the car.

Not the car and then the rent. You did that backwards, Brandy.

You keep rent current cuz if they take the car, you at least got a place to live. If they take the house, you're living in the car. We don't want to do that.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

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Insured by the NCUA.

>> [music]

[music]

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Might not be in all states.

>> Today, we've got two related questions.

First is from Craig in Georgia who asks, "What will the market do based on what's going on in Iran?" And Allen in Indiana

asks, "My daughter is going to college in August. With the stuff going on in Iran, should I change her 529 plan to an age-based investment?"

So, Dave, people are spooked by what's going on. It obviously affects the economy at least temporarily. And so, they're wondering, "Should I make any changes to the way I'm investing right now?" >> No.

>> That was easy. >> You should not change a thing.

Okay. If you go back throughout history, every time there's a burp in the geopolitical world, every time Donald Trump burps or Joe Biden burps, or there's an October 7th attack by Hamas and they kill innocent babies in Israel, or there's the Israelis now and the United States bombing the crud out of Iran for a few days, uh when you go back through history, you're going to see that generally what happens there's a one or two-day, sometimes a 30-day period of time that the market market will go down.

Those that ride roller coasters only get hurt if you jump off in the middle of the ride.

Give an example. Anybody remember that little thing COVID? Mhm. Remember that there's a little thing we had called COVID-19?

It was a little problem we had a few years ago. And it was going to crash the entire world economy and everything and the market dove when everything started sheltering in place and uh, you know, everybody had to go home and all the all these everything started shutting down and all this the market dove and it went down and down and down and down and down and down.

57 days later it was back up to where it

started.

Mhm.

Oh, uh, yeah. The when the bombs first started falling on Iran the other day, um, the market dove. It went down a couple of points.

Um, it's been a week or two. It's back up.

Um, the market's basically flat as of this as of this recording for this year. And um, net net net out of all the ups and downs and backs and forth.

If you jump in or jump out every time you see a bad report on CNN or Fox, you're never going to stay invested and you're never going to make any money.

And so, no, you don't do age-based investments for 529s for God's sakes

and you don't ever do that and you don't, um, sit and fret about what the market's going to do based on a war if you if you even call it a war.

Um, based on a series of bomb runs.

Um so I mean I again, the markets just are not that tender and here here's the thing, you

should never put money in mutual funds that you're going to leave alone a week.

You should never put money in mutual funds that you're going to leave alone for a month.

You should never put money in mutual funds if you're going to leave it alone for six months.

You should never put money in mutual funds unless you're going to leave it alone three to five years.

And over three to five years all of these problems that drive the market down become a distant memory and all you

will see is a trendline overall up.

>> So here here's my investing strategy.

Time in the market beats timing the market. And what you're doing when you get spooked by this is you're timing the market. And what you're really doing is you're selling low and then you're going to buy high cuz you don't know when the bottom is. So what do you do?

You cash out hoping that you're going to get you know avoid this big dip. And then what happens is when you get back in, it's already back to record highs. And so you really lost out cuz the best days usually happen after the worst days.

>> Yeah. And your daughter goes to college in August, by August it'll be a memory.

Uh by the next August and by the way you don't need all of her 529 money the first year she goes to school. If you do, she didn't have much in the 529 to start with.

And so you're just going to take out enough to pay for that year's or that six months or that semester.

That's all you're going to use. And so the vast majority, let's say you got enough for four years in the in the 529.

Okay? The vast majority of what you need is not going to be used for two to three more years.

And so over the next two to three years, you know, you the bombing of Iran will be a distant memory and it's a much smaller

blip on the radar, no pun intended, than

uh than COVID was. COVID was a real thing in terms of what it did to the market, but it recovered dramatically fast after that. And so,

you go back and look at March of 20 and watch what the stock market did. Go look at the chart for March of 20 and you'll see it come right back up in April and May and June. And um >> These age-based investments stay for people that don't understand what it's doing is moving your investments to more conservative things like bonds as your kid gets into the college phase so that it sort of stabilizes. But what you're missing out on is the returns.

Look at the last 3 years. It was up 23%, 25%, 17%. And if you were half in bonds, you're not going to see those returns.

So, no, no, no, no, no.

If every time you get afraid by watching the news, quit watching the news.

Cuz you know, it's it's it doesn't matter. You know? Like we were going to Cabo the other day and some of my friends' wives are like, "Oh, they have problems in Mexico. You can't go to Cabo." And I'm like, It's not It's in It's in Cancun. I mean, it's like They got to take They have problems in Chicago, so I'm not going to Nashville. That's just dumber than crud and people's perception of stuff. So, um

"Oh, I'm canceling." What are you canceling for? We're not even We're not a thousand miles away. They burned a car in Chicago, so you're not going to Nashville. I mean, that's just dumb. So,

it's the same thing here. It's overreaction, the fear porn that the news media just spreads all the time.

And so, turn off your television is a good idea for your investing strategy.

And just just get off the Fox website

because it's just "Blah, the world's coming to an end. The world's coming to an end." The world Chicken Little lives there full-time. The sky is falling. The sky is falling.

Our phones here are 888-825-5225.

James is in Raleigh. Hi James, how are you? >> Good, and yourself? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um so, I went through my financial

transaction transactions the other day and on my wife's phone I found that she has spent

uh a minimum of about $5,000 sending to

one person because she has an addiction to pain pills that we're currently trying to get under control and she has dealt with five or six people over the course of the last year and I've been noticing more and more money going missing. I had about $600 saved up and that went

missing and every time that I ask her about it, where the money went, she can't give me a straight answer. Well, I finally >> wife is addicted to drugs, take her off of all of the accounts.

>> Well, I did and that was the problem is that she will grab my phone while I'm asleep. I'm a truck driver, so I'm home two, maybe three nights a >> on >> Put a passcode on your phone, man.

>> She cannot have ac- if she's an addict, she cannot have access to funds.

>> Okay, and at this point now I I don't want to leave her because we we do have two kids together. They're both getting ready to start school and >> That doesn't mean she has to have access to funds.

She has no access to money, period, if she's an addict. It's not good for her, dude. She'll kill herself.

>> And I've had to explain that to her and she doesn't understand. >> she understands. I don't have to explain it. You get no money until you are clean

of drugs, period.

I'm not explaining, I'm telling.

I'm protecting you from yourself and I'm protecting us from you until you get off these pain pills and you're dry.

And so, we got to get you some help for that, baby doll. I love you and we're going to we're going to walk through this together, but you've got no money.

I'm not giving you You have no access to no money, no how, no where when you're doing drugs.

Period.

That That's That's a That's a non-starter. You just got to start with that and end with that. And make sure she's actually getting the help she needs to get healed, man. And then when she gets healed and becomes trustworthy again, worthy of trust, then we start working this like two functioning adults together. But until then, no.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Angela is in Phoenix. Hey, Angela, what's up? >> Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. I'm excited to see you guys next month in Phoenix. >> Yay! Glad you're coming. How can we help? >> I was in a car accident in April of 2020. I'm okay and went through several physical therapy sessions, like maybe eight sessions. I was represented by a law firm. Fast forward in 2023, the case

closed and I only got $4,000 settlement after everything said and done. And they told me everything was settled and was asked to sign a client directive. And I was only 24 at that time and no no nothing um No it's nothing anything better. Fast forward to 2026, last week I got an

email from physical therapy that I owe them $3,800 because the law firm didn't pay them. And I didn't I I have to pay for it. Um there's 6 years

from now, I was able to confirm that everything was legitimate and I just don't know what to do. Do I just pay them >> talk to the law firm?

>> Law No, not law firm, the physical therapy.

>> I know. You said the law firm was supposed to pay it and they didn't.

>> Yes, they didn't. And when they said all of the >> law firm that was supposed to pay it and didn't? >> They didn't. They told me that >> Did you call the law firm that was

supposed to pay the bill?

>> Yes, I did. But they told me that >> They told me that at that time, they said they cannot get a hold of the physical therapy.

>> Yes. Last week >> you got a bill that they were supposed to have paid. Did you call them this week and say, "How come I got a bill that you were supposed to pay?" >> It's not even a bill. It's just an email from the >> Honey, did you call the law firm?

>> I did call the law firm. >> Okay, jeez. What did they say?

>> They said at that time in 2023 before they closed the settlement, they cannot get a hold hold of the physical therapy.

That's why they asked me to sign the directive client that I have to take care of everything. But from what I can remember, they told me everything was settled even the medical bills from the hospital.

>> Okay, so you signed off knowing at the

time they have a file a piece of paper in their file that says you knew at the time that they had not paid the physical therapy. >> No, they told me at that time that everything was settled and I don't have to worry about anything. And come six years after, you know, the physical therapy was emailing me last week about it. >> that. What I'm trying to figure out is what the law firm is what's their excuse for not having paid this and how did they say it was your fault?

>> They said that at that time they cannot get a hold of that physical therapy.

That's what they told me last week.

>> That doesn't matter. They still have to pay it.

Whether they got a hold of them or not.

>> You're telling me for 3 years they haven't been able to get in touch with the physical therapy place?

>> No, from 2020 to 2023 they they didn't

they didn't settle it.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, I think I'm going to be talking to the lawyer that was supposed to have paid the bill and I don't really want to hear any excuses about why they didn't pay the bill and they need to call the physical therapy company and get this settled.

Because that was their job. That was their job originally. They withheld money from your settlement to pay your bills. And then they didn't do it.

>> Yes, the settlement was 14,000 and I only got 4,000 in total.

>> Which means you got nothing.

By the time you pay this bill.

So the only person who made any money on this was the lawyer. Oh, there's a shock. Okay. Oh my gosh.

All right. Well, I'm going to be all up in the business of this law firm saying you guys are supposed to have paid this bill and you didn't and you need to contact them and you need to negotiate this. And

at you know, if it does land back on you Angela, you probably can settle it for 4 or 500 bucks. And I'm just tell them it's it's a you know, it's a 6-year-old bill. And you haven't gotten it so far in 6 years and I'm not paying you. The law firm was supposed to pay you, but I will I will give you $500 for settlement in full and then you can go after the law firm that was supposed to have paid it if you want to do that.

But you know, if you want to settle it, that's fine or you want to dump it in the back in the lap of that law firm. I'm dumping it back in the lap of the law firm.

they should have taken care of this at the time. And I'm not sure I understand what your deal was with them completely, but it sounds like they were supposed to have taken care of this and didn't. >> And I'd find some documentation. Right now it's well they said >> Yeah. >> five years ago that they were going to do this thing. I'd get some What did you sign in writing? What did it say?

>> Yeah, but a a medical bill

regardless of how it what the story is, a medical bill that has been unpaid for 6 years, you can settle it for pennies on the dollar. And so just make them a $500 offer to go away and they'll go away. And give them 500 bucks and get it in writing and keep the piece of paper forever. Once you settle this. That's probably your easiest route. Um but there's something about the justice the injustice of the law firm being the only one that actually makes any money on this transaction.

Oh jeez.

Don't get me started on my >> one of those billboards that she called one of those numbers?

>> [sighs] >> They took her to the cleaners on this one. Getting 70% of the payout.

>> No, no, they got it all.

>> Well, she said she got 4,000.

>> Yeah, but now she owes 3,800.

>> Which they >> that they were supposed to have paid and if they had paid that she would have got nothing. So they got it all. That's my point. That thing's net net sum of zero.

>> I'd be the squeaky wheel. >> Yeah, so I'm I'm getting up up in some folks business here at a minimum just to have some fun with this.

And then um cuz there's nothing more fun than yelling at lawyers.

Um that's that's about my like one of my favorite things. >> time for Dave. >> So um phew.

>> [sighs and gasps] >> I'm sorry about that. Sorry you're facing that. If you want the easy way out, I'd just settle it for 500 bucks.

Call the physical therapy people and say the lawyer is supposed to pay it. I don't owe it. I'm going to turn it over to them or I'll give you 500 bucks for settlement in full, but I'm not giving you 3,800. Period. Not going to do it.

Sue me. Laura's in Washington, D.C. Hi Laura, how are you? >> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> So my question is how do we navigate wanting to start a family but still being in baby step two?

>> Uh just start a family.

I don't wait to get I don't wait to get out of debt to have kids.

>> What are your concerns?

What are you worried about?

>> Um I think we just feel like anxious um

and fearful that everyone says having a kid is a big expense.

>> It's not.

They don't eat much. They're tiny.

>> Yeah. >> They really don't.

Do you guys have any money saved?

No, they're in baby step two. You got a thousand bucks?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's just stack up cash once you're pregnant and go all right, for the next nine months we're just going to save and save and save and save and once you and baby are home safe, we can push play on the debt snowball. But for now, just make your minimum payments. No, no, for now, you pay full debt snowball. You pay everything on the smallest debt.

When and if you get pregnant, then you push pause on your debt snowball and

pile up cash instead of reducing debt

until baby comes.

Okay? And then you use that cash to pay

on the debt if baby comes and I mean, I'm sure you've got health insurance, don't you? >> Yes. >> Okay. Covers labor and delivery, right?

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. So, you can find out your deductible, your out-of-pocket maximum.

What's your household income?

>> Uh 240 gross.

>> $240,000?

>> Gross, gross. >> Yeah, well, it's not gross at all.

That's pretty cool. Yeah. How much debt do you guys have? I think you can afford a baby kid.

>> Okay. >> People have babies all the time. I don't care. I mean, you're you're you're you're you're in good shape. You're fine. You're fine. There's nothing to be anxious about. Yeah, but you do have to focus and be thoughtful, but children do not cost $300,000. They're not It's not that big a deal. I mean, little money on some diapers and formula and uh they don't take up much room, so you don't unless you go crazy, go spend $100,000 redoing the nursery that the kid doesn't even know is there.

But that's you going crazy. That's not the kid. That's you. And so but I mean they just need a place to sleep.

And so I was with a guy the other day.

Where was I?

And he was telling the story.

Oh, I know where it was now.

And he said when he was born his parents lived in a one bedroom studio apartment.

And they had a uh dresser drawer thing a

chest of drawers that they bought at a garage sale and they opened up the top drawer and that was his bassinet.

>> That's incredible. That's old school right there. >> That's how he started out life. >> And he doesn't even remember. >> And he's a he's a wealthy guy. >> That's incredible. >> Yeah. So yeah, they don't kids don't cost much. You just need a dresser drawer.

>> Just 31.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. George Kamel, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. We're

so glad you're with us. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Marie is in Philadelphia. Hi Marie, how are you?

>> I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> [clears throat] >> So um my husband has committed financial infidelity uh three times. Um and every time that

he was caught we had to

refinance and all of that. Um >> So he runs up debt behind your back and lies to you. >> Yep. Yep. 100% and I told him the third time,

um if he does it again, we will divorce.

I'm not doing this anymore.

>> So, he did it again and are you divorcing?

>> I know, this happened like 2 weeks ago.

Um >> I'm the third the third time was 2 weeks ago?

>> The third time was 2 weeks ago. I found out. >> Okay. >> He He did not come clean. I found it.

Um my friend does um financial whatever

for a company and she helped me do a credit check on him and we found it.

>> So, so are you divorcing then?

>> I checked in yesterday online to see how

to get divorce papers. Yes.

Um I'm I'm still going back and forth. I just I Yeah. We've been married 41 years together. Um my question is I have So, I home

schooled our five children. We have 11 grandkids. Um I started a cleaning business. Um it's just me after our son youngest son

graduated.

So, um I been taking that money and we put it into a savings and we consider it like fun money. So, we use it for vacations, house projects, whatever.

My question is do I go and get his name off of that account?

>> You need to go see a divorce attorney and let them advise you on what you're allowed to do in the state of Pennsylvania while filing divorce.

Whether you can take names off of accounts or not. I don't know if you can do that there.

Um >> Yeah. >> But yeah, I mean you you've got to protect yourself in any way that is legally allowable.

And but you certainly need to take pictures of the account so that you know that that money is there and if it disappears then you've at least got something to hold against him, you know, while you go through the divorce and uh you know, for instance if it How much is in that account?

>> My account 7,000.

>> Oh, so it's not much. Okay.

And he's never touched it thus far.

>> I have Well, we used it Yeah, we used it for our anniversary >> stolen from it and lied about that account. >> Not Not that I know of because

Okay, so I'm dyslexic with numbers. He knows that. So he always has paid our bills. He's always done our finances and I put our my guard down last year. I should not have done it and he went and

started using a credit card and I was just like, "Son of a gun. I just, you know, can't believe that you did this for the fourth time in our marriage." Um

So I Yeah, I don't know because >> Well, the $7,000 is probably going to be used as your attorney's fee.

>> Okay.

>> And so do you guys have Do you guys have Do you guys have any Do you have any assets? Do you have any money in the marriage? >> We have nothing. Nope, we have nothing.

>> You own a house? >> We have We own a house. That's it.

>> What's it worth? >> No. Um We have And my daughter's

uh mother-in-law, she's a realtor and she said she thinks she can get between five and six a hundred thousand for it.

>> What do you owe on it? >> It's an acre lot.

Uh-huh. >> What do you owe on it?

>> Nothing. It was paid off five years ago.

>> Okay.

All right.

So have you guys attempted marriage counseling?

>> We did when he did this the last time

um and it it got better.

The problem was so we he said no more credit cards so we had no credit cards and we took in a trip for our 40th anniversary last year to Utah.

And they would not let us rent a car unless we had a credit credit card.

>> No, that's not true.

>> Well, he I don't know. We he said he tried. They won't take debit cards, they won't take checks, they won't take cash.

He said, "I can't to rent a car, you have to have a credit card." So, he tried. I think it's Capital One.

And so he did and I should have taken it

and I asked him the other day, I said, "I want the credit card." He said, "No." And I was like, "Okay, well, there's that." >> Is your name on any of these debts or cards?

>> Um the ones that we're paying 80,000

off, so we consolidated so they take out 600 every month from our checking account. And I guess they barter with the the companies to pay off whatever.

>> Did you work with a debt debt settlement relief company, one of these scummy companies out there? >> Yes, that's what she did, yeah. >> Yes, that's what we're with.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, you have $80,000 in debt on credit cards and you have a $500,000 paid for house.

And do you make enough to live on?

>> I do not. I only work two days a week.

The other three days I babysit >> are you how are you going to eat?

>> That's my yeah. I'm going to have to work full-time. That's the only way.

>> Yeah. How old are you?

>> I'm me, I'm 60.

>> Okay.

Oh, Maria, I'm so sorry.

I wish I wish marriage counseling would have fixed this. Um but it it sounds like your husband is just whatever. I don't know what he is, but um >> Do you know where he's spending all this money? Is he an addict of some sort?

>> No, so that's what I I checked on and um

my friend he does finances for Armstrong. He said everything shows it's just gas and food and one was on Lowe's.

It's all like petty stuff. It's like I don't understand.

I Yeah, I don't I don't know.

>> What does he make? >> It's frustrating.

He only makes He almost made 60,000 last year.

>> Mhm.

>> He had a job same job for 35 36 years.

Um they closed up. It was a printing company and of course you know computers took over that. So um he got a better he got a job and he hasn't worked swing shift anymore and he doesn't have to work weekends but he took a big pay cut. Um >> Yeah.

Marie, I I think you need to um get in touch with your pastor, get in touch with your marriage counselor and you need to sit down and have an initial discussion with a divorce attorney and you need to look at the reality of what this is facing here.

down the toilet with grandkids everywhere and everything else. That's just that's that's just devastating.

And um but I but I don't understand a guy who's willing to give up all of that either for just simply for the use of a credit card. It doesn't make any sense at all and lying to his wife as much as freaking habit.

Uh horrible. Just horrible.

I guess it's proof that integrity matters even after 41 years.

>> Yeah, that is brutal. We see a lot of this with couples that have been married so long kids are finally out of the house and then they have to face the spouse and go oh my gosh this misbehavior I've been dealing with it and putting up with it for far too long.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Well, we wish we could get to every single call and every single question here on the show. If you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head on over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our

free AI tool that is built and trained

on hours and hours and hours and hours and days and days and days of this show on proven Ramsey principles. So, you're going to get an answer pretty much the same answer you get exactly here on the air because that's who trained it. Maybe even nicer.

>> Almost guaranteed to be nicer.

>> Yeah. >> You'll get the answer the same way we do it right here. Ask Ramsey. You can ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com completely free.

Just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Ask Ramsey. George, this little

project has exploded. I was meeting with one of our leaders today and he was telling me the uh bazillion people the number is crazy the number of people that are going to ask Ramsey. It's working. >> It's It's people they're making >> I didn't know I didn't know if it work.

>> Yeah. Well, you you put a tool out there and you go, "Will people use this instead of trying to search the internet for a random answer?" And it's working.

>> Well, and you don't have to ask your question in front of 32 million people which you do on the show. >> That helps, too. >> Sharon is in Atlanta. Hi, Sharon. How are you? >> [clears throat] >> I'm doing just fine. How are you, Dave?

How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Okay. This is my question.

I have almost $200,000 in consumer debt. >> Good lord. >> I know. $252,000 owed on the mortgage. And so, my question is, should I stop my Roth that I have and retire?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> You should stop everything and clean up this mess. What in the world do you owe $200,000 on?

>> I owe about $71,000 $71,000 in credit

cards, $35,000 in finance companies, and $61,000 in taxes, and $20,000 on a car.

>> Why did you not pay your taxes?

>> Well, I am paying them. I just I just haven't paid them. >> pay them. That's why you have $61,000 in debt. >> I'm working on it. Look, I just Look, okay, Dave. I found you at the end of last year and I have turned my household upside down. I'm working on it.

>> I'm glad. I'm glad. But I mean, why did you not pay your taxes?

>> I Well, I didn't pay I haven't paid them in full, but I've been paying on them on a monthly basis. >> I know. I'm asking why you didn't pay them originally. I'm seriously.

>> Okay, the reason why is because with my husband's job, he's a contractor, and you know, if you don't lay that 25% to the side. >> Yes. >> That That was >> not But, you've not been doing your quarterly estimates, and you got behind cuz he's a 1099 guy. >> got behind. But, we coming in there.

>> All right. That makes sense. Okay. So, what's your household income, Sharon?

>> 286 before tax. >> Well, that's good news. >> Woo! >> Mhm. >> So, when you decide to turn this house upside down, you can shake this 200k out pretty quick, can't you?

>> I I That's what I'm thinking. But, you know, and and that's what I'm planning on doing. But, this is the first question one of the first questions I have. The taxes come first, correct?

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. >> Because the interest rate is unbelievably and the penalties are unbelievably high.

And the And, more importantly than that,

the uh they have almost unlimited power to screw up your life.

>> Got you. >> They can just show up and take all the money out of your checking account. They don't even have to ask a judge. They just do it. >> Okay. Okay. So, so this 61,000, what I'm

thinking is is that probably in the next 1 2 3 4 maybe 5 to

6 months, I can have the 61,000 paid off. >> That's good. That's good. You don't have any money in savings that's not retirement? >> Uh in savings? Well,

about three or four thousand dollars.

That's about it. >> Okay. That needs to be $1,000, and we'll throw the rest of it at the taxes. And then, let's get the budget done, and you and the husband sit down, look at that budget, and go go scorched earth.

No life, and we're getting these taxes gone. And once the stupid IRS is gone, and we never and we file quarterly estimates from this point forward, so we never get back there again.

>> Right. Definitely.

>> Good. Good. And then and then, we're going to work the rest of the debts off smallest to largest using the debt snowball. And stop all investing, stop all savings, and let's focus on this cuz you make enough money to not be this broke. >> Right. Definitely. Well, you know what?

I didn't realize I was this broke until I started listening to you.

>> [laughter] >> That almost sounds like it's my fault.

>> If I didn't LISTEN TO YOU, DAVE, I wouldn't be [laughter] here right now. >> Oh my goodness.

>> I You know what? I turned this house I turned these bank accounts that we have upside down >> Good. Good. Shake and shake and the nickels out. >> Is he on board, too?

>> Oh, yeah. He's Well, he had no choice because he had been doing the budget for 43 years. And I'm like, okay, we're going to do them together. So, it's it's somewhat my fault. But uh as of right now >> Where'd he learn how to budget? Congress? >> No, I love it. You guys are great.

>> That's wild. >> You're going to do good, Sharon. I'm proud of you. Keep it up.

>> 20k slipping through your hands every month. Now we just got to get control of it. >> Yeah, it's good you're going to be able to knock some stuff out fast. Hang on, we're going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, to make sure you get all your questions answered.

It takes you the baby steps on steroids. And as you're working through this, you're going to want to know a few of those odds and ends. And you call me back anytime, kiddo. I I got a feeling you're going to do good.

She's on fire. >> Yeah. She's spunky.

>> Turn Turn these bank accounts upside down and shake all the nickels out of them.

>> She's flipping the couch cushions up looking for some change. >> I'm telling you. This This is going to happen. Uh Ty is with us in Milwaukee. Hi, Ty.

How are you?

>> Good. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh I had So, I'm new. I haven't

new to listening to your show. And um by the way, it's a it it's a great show.

>> Well, welcome. Good to have you.

>> Yeah, I had a question. So, my fiance

and I were getting married in October.

>> Good. >> Um [clears throat] we have a we have a wedding to pay for. And then we also have around we have some student loan debts as well. We have some money saved up.

>> How much do you have saved up?

>> We have about like 50 to 60,000 dollars.

>> Okay, and how much are we spending on the wedding?

>> Uh the wedding is going to be a little pricey. It's going to be around like that 50 to 60,000. It's going to be a big wedding, both of our dream weddings.

We both want all of our family members and friends there. So >> What's your income?

>> Uh my my personal income or my fiance's

>> Or both, yeah.

>> Uh it's around 1

I'd say 1 80. >> Yours is and what's hers?

>> Mine's Well, mine's kind of

>> No, that that's yours. You make You make 200,000 a year roughly. What does she make? >> No No, I make I make like 120.

>> Oh, and she makes 80.

>> She makes around 80 to 90. She just got a raise. >> Okay. >> Um so I think she's more >> And you guys How old are you guys?

>> We are Uh my fiance's 26 and I'm 25 turning 26.

>> Okay. You're right, [clears throat] that is a pricey wedding.

Um it is not in the range of insanity based on the fact that you have such a wonderful household income.

Okay? >> Mhm. >> So uh but it's getting close. So you need to put together a detailed project management budget for the wedding.

Because otherwise you'll have scope creep and you'll spend 70 grand.

>> Right. >> So you need to say You need to Now listen to me. You need to lay this out and say this is how much we're going to spend on the dress, this is how much we're going to spend on the orders and the reception, this is how much we're going to spend on the videographer, this is how much we're going to spend on the venue, and and detail it out and then stick to that plan. And then put the number at the bottom. Let's call that number 50,000. That's plenty.

>> Yeah. >> And then manage to that number, and then take that 50,000 and set it in a separate account right now for the wedding.

Wedding is off the table now. Box is checked. Now we start moving with everything between now and the wedding of your income that you can free up to throw towards your debt, and she starts throwing any money she has towards her debt until you're married.

>> Okay. So, you would

pay off the wedding in cash.

>> Yeah. I Do you have 50,000? Move the 50,000 to the wedding account. That's over. It's done.

>> Yeah. >> Now we focus on the debt with all of our income, and we don't let the wedding creep above 50,000 because we manage a budget.

And the two of you sit down and plan it like two grown-ups instead of two people wanting a fairy tale because that's where people wind up spending 100 grand when they meant to spend 50. >> You got a big wedding, it just gets bigger. Mom and Dad just start throwing people on there. >> I wouldn't know anything about that.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey good folks, Dr. John Delony here.

Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So, guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers.

That's ramseysolutions.com/careers.

>> Jay is in San Francisco. Hi Jay, how are you? >> Good. I'm I'm well, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Well, how do I how do my wife and I change our mindset after we've been uh

spending uh practicing really the baby steps for so long and now we're retired and we've lived frugally and how do we

change the mindset to want to spend some of this money and uh enjoy the uh the the fruits of our our labor.

>> Good for you. So, what's your nest egg?

What's your net worth?

>> Net worth is about 2.5, about half of that in uh our home and half of it in retirement fund. >> Way to go. Way to go. And what what do you live on a year? What's it take you to live? >> Uh we uh we have a a monthly income with

uh two retirements, two uh social security and a and an annuity of about $9,400 and and we usually uh can live

pretty comfortably each month on that.

So, we don't really touch the uh the retirement fund much at all unless we're going to do a big trip or something.

>> Yeah. Well, good for you. Well done.

Very well done. How old are you guys?

>> We're 66. We've been married 44 years and been practicing the uh principles since we got married. >> Way to go. Proud of you.

Very good. And you started with nothing and you're a multi-millionaire.

>> Yes, we are. Praise God for that.

>> Yeah. Way to go. Very good. Good work.

Baby steps millionaires. All right. So, um well, a couple of things Sharon and I have learned to do.

Um, one is even though you've been living very responsibly and very adult-like for a long time, one of you is more of a spender than the other one.

>> Yes. >> Who's that?

>> Uh, that would probably be me.

>> Okay. At my house, it's me, too.

Sharon's the natural saver. Uh, when in doubt, she saves. When in doubt, I have fun. And so, um, yeah. So, you can lean

into that a little bit and say, uh, you you need to initiate some of the things, uh, that we're going to enjoy some of this $2 million.

We're 66 and, uh, one of the things we

instituted around our house is when we have an a fun idea, uh, we like a trip

or something we want to do with some of the money we worked hard for, we say, "Why wouldn't I?" >> Ooh. >> Yeah. Why wouldn't I? >> I like that.

>> You have to prove to yourself that it's a bad idea. >> you know, friends friends call up and they've got a house in, uh, in Telluride and they say, "Hey, come up and go skiing for 3 days." And we say, "Why wouldn't I?" >> Yeah. >> And we go. >> Yeah.

>> You know, and so, that kind of stuff. So, that that's a good thing way of looking at it.

a an underdeveloped or atrophied muscle.

>> Mhm. >> And so, you've got to work it out. You know, you've got to start working out that spending a little bit. You have to responsible spending muscle has to be built up. And so, when you say, "Okay, we're going to take this trip." Oh, that didn't kill us. Uh, we're going to upgrade mama's car.

Oh, that didn't kill us.

Uh, we're going to put $10,000 in, uh, each of the grandkids, uh, accounts for

their college. Oh, that didn't kill us.

When you do a few things like that, you kind of got to go, "Oh, I I didn't die from that and I'm not I'm not homeless and penniless and I've still got $2 million after I did all that, you know, and so you start to you know, your brain starts to reset and go, I can do a few things and it doesn't kill me.

>> Right. Right. >> Uh the next thing is is we increased our generosity.

>> Yes. >> Which removes any guilt from enjoying some of the money.

>> Yes. >> So, if I if I put $100,000 over here and help this situation with this ministry,

I can spend 10 or 15 on Sharon and me and not think anything about it.

>> Right. >> And so, there's kind of kind of it's not technically an offset, spiritually, morally, mathematically, it's not an offset, but it your generosity muscle seems to be attached to your spending and enjoyment muscle.

>> Yes, I appreciate that. Well, we've been fairly generous and and I think that that's not as much of an issue as just maybe going over over the top on a over the top type of vacation where we spend, you know, 30 or 35,000 on a cruise and

say, you know, it's one of those cruises where you don't have to where you have to wear something besides flip-flops, board shorts, and a tank top to dinner, you know, what I mean? >> Yep. I'm with you. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and I you know, but again, 35,000,

you know, you got a million two sitting there in the 401k, it's making 120,000 a year or 150,000 a year in growth if you don't even touch the nest egg.

And so, the 30 you know, the 35,000 is not damaging you. You start spending 350,000 on something, now we got to stop and think about it. >> Yes, sir. >> But you're not that's not usually what we're talking about in these conversations. So, you know, just develop that out and say, okay, why wouldn't I why wouldn't I what happens if this goes wrong?

Uh you know, if I just burn this money in the middle of the floor, does my life really change? You can burn 35,000 in the middle of your floor, your life won't change.

>> Yes. >> And that gives me permission then to enjoy that much without because I'm not

being irresponsible.

If it if my life changes when that amount of money's burned in the middle of floor, then I'm starting to be irresponsible.

>> Yep. >> Have you and your wife sat down a nice date and started dreaming about you here's the annual plan, here's the vision for what we want to do this year and just mapped it out?

>> Uh well, we have a map for this year. It was we got invited by some friends to go on this trip for 20 27 and so that's when this all kind of came up and I thought, well >> Why wouldn't I?

There you go. Now's your chance ask that question. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I love it. And what I do Jake is I'm I'm real frugal and it's hard to break me from that. What I do is I force myself in the every dollar budget to put a line item that makes me a little bit throw up a little where I go, oh gosh, I got to spend that on myself? I'm going to give that much money away? And then you guys keep each other accountable. You guys get to come up with your own.

And over time it'll be a an effing burger. You know, over time Dave [clears throat] as you spend more and more money, you go, oh that didn't hurt as bad as I thought. >> Yeah, and I'm just looking okay, I'm 66.

I got maybe what 20 years or something.

Uh how bad how bad how bad can I screw this up? You know, I really can't at this stage. >> [laughter] >> I really you know, I did so I'm like Jay, we did so much that it'd be you'd have to really concentrate to mess it up in the next 20 years, you know? >> Well, there's a part where the the compound growth in the mass takes over where you'd have a hard time spending all that before you go.

>> Uh the the the goose is laying a lot of eggs and you'd have to eat a lot of omelets in that 20 years, you know?

That that would be the thing.

Congratulations, Jay. I'm very proud of you. Tom is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hey Tom, welcome to the show.

>> Hi Dave, it's nice to speak to you. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can I help?

>> Yeah, so my wife and I need help with a real estate decision. We've made some mistakes in the past when it comes to real estate and hoping not to make a mistake this time around. So, I'm active duty military. Uh we currently live in Kentucky.

I actually have a upcoming uh PCS. We're going to be moving to New York this summer. And this will likely be my last move before retirement. So, we're only going to be in New York for about 5 to 6 years at the most.

Uh we owe about 120. It's worth about 270.

Um um we're trying to decide whether we should just continue to rent that house or sell it and use it as a down payment to buy a house in New York. But my concern with that is the fact that we're only going to be there for such a short amount of time. I'm not sure, you know, with the current market and the uncertainty, if that's a good decision or not.

>> Well, the first we decide if we're going to buy in New York. If we're going to buy in New York, then yes, I would liquidate the San Antonio and put it as a down payment. And if you're selling, and sell the house in Kentucky if you own one there, and put it as a down payment. If you're going to buy. Now, if you're going to buy is answered by this.

Um the community that you're moving into in New York, is it a uh military-only

community or is it a community that has some military in it?

>> Yeah, so it's actually the West Point, New York. So, we have the option of living off post um and just taking that BAH, that that monthly housing allowance, and applying it towards a mortgage. Or we could live on post, in

which case we would not receive that amount of money. It would essentially be like renting while we're there.

>> Right. Okay. So, if you're off post, are

those homes only is most of the people living in those areas military?

Cuz that's a small community, isn't it?

>> Yeah, it's pretty small communities. They're kind of smaller towns and villages surrounding West Point.

>> Yeah, I thinking if you get ready to resell, you probably have a lot of competition cuz the other people that they're moving out that are military.

So, you may not get great appreciation.

Study the appreciation and study the speed of sale. If the appreciation's good and the speed of sale is good, then go ahead and buy.

But if it's if because there's a lot of competition, if it's slow to sell and

slow to appreciate, then I would not buy. >> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, I've got big news. The Ramsey Show is going on tour and this is your chance to be more than just a listener.

You get to be part of the show. So, hear questions asked live and experience the kind of momentum that only comes from being in the room. We'll be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim

with a limited number of seats in each city. So, last fall we completely sold out in 72 hours. So, do not wait. Get your tickets at ramsolutions.com/events

or by clicking the link in the show notes.

>> [music] >> Our scripture of the day is Psalm 84:11.

For the Lord God is a sun and shield.

The Lord bestows favor and honor. No good [music] thing does he withhold from those who walk whose walk is blameless.

Al Bernstein said, "Success is often the result of taking a misstep in the right direction." June is in Grand Rapids. Hey June, how are you?

>> Good. How are you all? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> I am just calling in. Um my husband and I bought a business this year in January and I am just wondering if it is time for me to quit my corporate job and strictly just work for the business only that we purchased.

>> What's the business what's the profit on the business?

>> Um it's going to be four to five hundred thousand dollars each year.

>> This year it's tracking that already?

>> um So we have profited eighty thousand already for January and February

together and we have paid forty thousand dollars on the note so far. So we're trying to pay it off. Um we have a loan like a note through the owner.

>> What's how much is your note to the owner? >> eighty thousand Um it is seven hundred eighty thousand dollars.

>> Okay and what do you make what do you make in corporate America?

>> Seventy-five thousand.

>> Okay. Do you if you quit and go to work at the business does that lower payroll at the business?

>> So I'd be making forty-five thousand cuz I'm currently making forty-five thousand at the business now. So I am working in for both corporate >> What what are you doing in the business?

>> Um I'm doing AP and AR.

>> Okay. All right and and you have you got other people doing that as well?

>> Nope it would just be me and my husband doing it together. So he currently works for the business and we have counting and me it would be six employees.

>> Okay but my point is you're not saving the business any money by going to work there and you're not making the business any money by going to work there.

>> Correct. Yep.

>> So it's a net loss of seventy-five thousand to your household.

>> Yes. Yep. So we >> Why is it you're itching to do that?

>> Um well, we got married in 2013,

bought a house, paid that off in 3 and 1/2 years, sold it after eight, bought a

new house, paid that off in 3 years. So we're completely debt-free except for the business loan. >> Right. >> So um we have a 5 and 8-year-old. So

corporate business is just getting really, really stressful. I'm working 12, 13-hour days, not eating lunch, not

taking a break. >> So are you wanting to work part-time in the business and and stay home with the kids essentially?

>> Yes. Yeah. >> And and that's worth a $75,000 reduction in household income for you to have that. >> be [clears throat] I would I would be making 45.

>> You're making 45 now.

>> So I'm making 75 corporate and I'm making 45 out of the >> out of the business now.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, so the net loss is 75,000. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You're Yeah. And so well, I mean,

you're going to be making the same money at the business and your husband's and the profit is all your both of yours and you're plowing most of the profit into debt reduction so you can clear this debt in 2 or 3 years, right?

>> Yeah. >> That's your idea.

And um >> Yeah. So >> um >> We have 15,000 in a money market account

and we have 45,000 in our savings.

>> Good. Good. Okay.

>> And 250 in retirement.

>> Okay. Yeah, I wouldn't put anything else in your retirement until you got this debt cleared, but it's a baby step six debt.

And um you know, so you're in the right place. I you know, as long as you guys are able to keep your lifestyle really, really low and reduce that 700,000 very, very quickly. I don't quite think you can do it in 2 years, but I think you could do it in three. >> That's like 260 a year toward the debt.

Little over 20 grand a month would clear this.

>> Yeah, that was our plan is to try and pay it off in 3 years. >> Yeah, I like that.

>> monthly expenses about 3,200 a month.

>> Yeah. And it changes the equation.

I'd knock a year off if you kept working.

>> Yeah. >> You could do it in 2 years if you kept working. And then so your trade-off is 1 year.

Of uh you're going to be in debt 1 year longer because you come home.

>> Okay. >> That's your that's the that you put that in one hand and put home in the other hand and there you go. That's your balancing act, right? That's the the scales of justice, so to speak, right?

What tips what tips the scales here? I think I'm coming home cuz I think you're burned out on the corporate crap.

>> I am. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I and I think you've got the margin in the Is this business really, really stable, very predictable environment?

>> Yes. Yep, my husband's working there for 15 years and the gentleman who sold it

who is selling it to us is giving us a heck of a deal on it for as much profit that as it brings in every year, I believe. >> But the the field that the I mean, what I didn't ask what the business does, but whatever the business does is a is a predictable environment for the coming 3 years.

>> Yep, it's an electric motor shop. So, do operations for factory motors that go down, you know, refrigeration motors that go down, air you know, AC units that go down. Yep. >> Yeah. Okay. All right, very cool. Yep, I

would quit.

>> Okay. >> [laughter] >> That was easy. Well, it wasn't easy, but thanks for talking it through with us. That's interesting listening to all the different variables that go into that decision and to try to say, "Okay, what would I do?" And you know, that that's that's where we are to you know, the quality of life when you've got that kind of income coming in, the quality of life starts to be a uh a big decision.

And her being able to not work 12 hours a day and not put up with the I mean, she they're using her up for 75 grand. I mean, they're they're just that's just crazy. >> it's a small portion of their now household income. So, it's an easier decision.

>> Chase is in Kansas City. Hi, Chase.

>> I'm great. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up? >> First off, I'm So, I'm 20 years old and only making like 600 a week. I've got about 800 to my name.

I don't have a whole lot going on right now, but my dad killed himself when I was 16 and I was kind of battling my stepmom to get his pickup truck that he had cuz that was about the only thing he had to his name. I didn't get any inheritance or nothing from him, but now I've got this pickup that I put a couple grand into to get running and Kelly Blue Book says it's worth about 30 grand and I don't know if I should get rid of it or keep it.

>> You think? >> Yep.

>> No questions asked? >> Nope. >> You seem very confident. >> Yep. And it's just simply this. There's only one of those. And this is a monumental event

in the landscape of your life.

You were 16 years old and your father

committed suicide.

That's a defining episode.

And you can use it to define it for good and say I'm going to address whatever he didn't address in my life so that I go on and and I'm victorious moving forward and I'm going to go be somebody.

Uh but, if you there's only one of these trucks.

There's and so, um you don't have 30,000 in it. You don't have 30,000 in debt on it, right?

>> Yeah, no. I mean, I'm down about two grand on it, but >> Yeah. >> Like I said, I only have about 800 to my name right now. So, I mean, that would >> that's a different set of issues, okay?

Selling the truck does not fix your career problems.

>> That's yeah. >> You need to go get a career, get some work, start working like a crazy man, working 40 80 hours a week, and start getting some money coming in so you don't have to ask the question about selling this truck.

But this truck is an emotional item. And if you're the 30-year-old version of you is going to look back at the 20-year-old Chase and go, "I wish you hadn't sold that truck." >> Yeah, I think you're right.

>> That's why I decided that so quickly.

And so, but having said that, you also have got to get these other parts of your life together really quick.

And so, I mean, like by the end of the week I want you to have six jobs. I want you working like a crazy man. Where you're just All you do is work and stack cash. And then when you get a little bit of wiggle room, you can start to pick a better job and pick a career field once you get up off of survival. You're not even surviving hardly right now.

Yeah, I mean, I'm paycheck to paycheck.

>> I work at a It's like a building material delivery company. I'm making about 20 an hour.

I'm living on my own. So, I mean, I'm >> Yeah. You know what? [clears throat] Hang on.

I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's Get Clear Assessment and his book Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I think you just need some some soul searching right now and get that purpose. >> Chase, if you're not going to go work 60 to 80 hours a week and work six jobs starting right now, you do need to sell [music] the truck.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show on the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 18. Build Wealth Faster by Understanding Opportunity Cost | March 10, 2026


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Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

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>> [music]

>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. Open

phones here at 888-825-5225.

It's a free call [music] and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and host of the uber popular Front Row Seat

interview show on the Ramsey Network.

He's my co-host today as we take your calls and your questions. Thank you for being here. Ray starts us off today. Hi Ray, how are you?

I'm doing fantastic, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

First off, it's an honor to talk to you.

Um, me and my wife found you back in January. We both read The Total Money Makeover. And actually this Friday, um,

we drove to town and sold our my, uh,

dirt bike and with that check, we'll be able to pay off our auto loan and BE DEBT FREE. WOW. LOOK AT YOU, MAN. GAME

ON. We're Yeah, we're excited. Um, my question today though is about our family business. Um, so I'm a third generation farmer. Um, I'm 27 years old and we have had a

tough couple years on the farm. Uh, we've racked up about $2 million of debt um, these past 2 years and we see things getting better in the future.

Um, so we'll hopefully be making more money, you know, markets and all the other factors going into that.

But we've had to do a lot of deferring,

updating equipment, and a a of other things to make it by this to this far.

And so my question is how do we from this point on be debt free but also trying to not go back to going into debt in the future when things get tough again.

Wow.

$2 million of losses in 2 years.

Yes. Mhm.

So I guess I should say we last year we made about 12 million in revenue. Um

and you know milk markets is our main exposure to price risk. We milk quite a few cows.

And so it's very regulated on the federal milk

marketing order and so we don't really have a control over how much we get for our milk. We have mainly have control over the expenses. So we've had to go without updating equipment. We haven't been able to do a lot of different projects that we've been wanting to.

A lot of our amazing employees and guys we work with have been going with smaller pay raises these past couple years just so that we can get by and the um we've had to liquidate cattle to try and you know break even and it's been difficult.

>> we're going to want to Say that again. Why do you say getting better in the future?

Uh you know a lot of it has to do with my dad. You know I trust him a lot and

you know when we talk about you know what markets look like in the future whether it's you know ag in general or

just you know milk prices going forward we see things getting better and I trust his judgments and to be honest we've gotten as far as we have because of him and you know many

other friends that are in the similar boat as we have probably 5x times amount of debt. And they don't see a way forward and I'm grateful for what my dad has done to get us to this point. And you know, I I'm confident and trust him in that aspect and you know, I see I'm not as experienced as you can tell. I'm only 27, so I haven't seen much of life.

>> that and I appreciate your honoring your dad. That's awesome. I I am

and and I I I mean, just a blind trust of him is not what we need. We need to know have a reason that he thinks the market is going to adjust so that you can become profitable. Um and I don't know enough about it to comment on that one way or the other. So, um the the thing is I I

I mean, obviously you keep expenses down, revenues go up, the difference is called profit, right?

That's no kidding, huh? And so, as that happens, you clean up the debt first

before you do capital expansions. And uh

from this point forward, you start setting aside percentages of your profits for retained earnings, so that

you build a cash war chest. So, if the markets were to cycle down like this again in the future, they don't take you out. And um that's what we do at Ramsey. We take a percentage of our gross revenues of our net profits every month and set them aside as additional savings

called retained earnings.

And so, when COVID hits and we lose

uh you know, a bazillion dollars worth of revenue for a few months there, uh we don't go out of business because we're sitting on a war chest of cash.

And um that that's how you build up in the future, but of course, in order to get there, uh you've got to, you know, uh experience a turnaround in the marketplace, which again, I have no expertise to comment on that one way or the other. Yeah, we're flying blind on that. I I do want to ask a a derivative, though. What is the biggest driver of of you going into debt? Is it that lost revenue? Are the expenses are out of control? I mean, what is it?

Well, we it definitely is lost revenue.

Well, so this la- last year, my best,

you know, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but say about 12 million in revenue, whereas in some years, you know, back in I think it was 22, we made well over 16 in in revenue. So it there

is a lot of swing, especially these past couple years in in milk prices, and we've we've tried to, you know, cutting expenses, like I said, and trying to make do with, you know, the small margin that we had. >> am I hearing is so is it a drawback from consumption because of pricing?

That's caused that $4 million gap?

Well, in terms of, you know, our production has stayed pretty consistent, but you know, the in terms of pricing, it's a lot of factors. >> a price it's a government price control and then they just took the price down. Yeah. Okay. And so they'd uh drive you out of business is what they're going to do. So um Yeah, and it's it's not as competitive Right. So >> price competitive wise not in the state.

Well, and so the reason I'm digging into that, I wanted to make sure I totally understood that. Yeah, I don't know how you can have confidence, and I'm just kind of circling back to something Dave said. I think there's some wisdom there.

Um I love the uh honoring your dad, but I mean, if this is a government problem, then I wouldn't

have a ton of confidence in less the milk lobby, and I'm speaking in general terms here. I know it exists, uh but that's your only weapon to kind of fight this, or else you're stuck. And so as you're looking long term, uh and again, I don't have great knowledge of it. I can look at it from a macro standpoint, I understand it, but I would be looking at that and making sure that I know what's going on.

Am I talking to the lobbyist? Do I know what they're projecting, Dave? Because yeah, I mean, your your hope is And your dad your dad's hope is is that the pricing structure moves back up and you're in the 16 range again instead of the 12 range, which makes you profitable. You clear the 2 million and you pile cash up, so the next time this happens, you don't go into debt.

so that you can do your capital improvements with cash above your emergency funding.

You know, and so the next time you have an upswing, you use it for, you know, much more wisely. What do you do though?

And again, I'm asking you no macro level >> control over what the government does. And you know, when they're going to just set the price somewhat arbitrarily. Um

And that scares the crud out of me. I wouldn't that that as a business person Yeah. I'm going to enter into a business that I live and die based on the whim of

the latest administration? Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. Shoot me. Mhm. Um that scares

me to death. I don't I don't control my own destiny here. And so um the markets aren't and [music] even free market is not controlling the pricing. No. It's just a subsidy situation. So, I don't know that that you got to figure all that out and long-term you got to figure out do you want to be susceptible to this?

>> [music]

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Tom is with us in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Hi, Tom. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave. Thanks.

Sure. What's up?

I am a master electrician working for

another master electrician for the last four or five years.

And I recently discovered that we're about 20 weeks behind on payroll. It

equates about $18,000.

I'm looking for some advice on what I

need to do here.

>> You haven't been paid in 20 weeks, but you recently discovered that?

I've I've been getting paid, but not

you know, like two pay periods in a month or three pay periods in a month, not four. And it's accumulated into Yeah, and in February, the most up-to-date pay period I have is October 4th.

Why are you just discovering this?

Well, uh that's a phenomenal question. It's definitely my fault that I have failed

to realize it for this long.

I've been building a house. I just had a baby. I got married this year, and it just uh Which would be all the more reason I counted all my paychecks.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay.

So, why is the guy not paying you what he owes you?

Well, it used to be a company of five employees, and then everybody left, and it was just him and myself.

And then he got stiffed on a $25,000 job. He put a lien on the property, but never got paid for it. And I think he just transferred that deficit from the supply stores and lines of credit to not paying me, cuz I don't charge interest.

But never bothered to discuss this with you. Correct. And when did you discover this?

I discovered it the week before last on a Thursday.

Okay. Have you found a new job yet?

Well, I'm not working for a crook. Why would you? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I I agree with you.

My biggest concern is that I file a wage claim, and he declares bankruptcy. Oh,

that's probably very likely.

Yes. Yes. >> That's not You're not going to get the money by sticking around, though.

You discovered he's a snake. Now that we've established that, we also know one thing about snakes. All they do is bite.

They don't do anything else. Don't be shocked.

And don't think the snake's going to turn into a rabbit.

It's a snake.

Leave.

That's part of the moral dilemma I've been having. >> a moral dilemma. It's common freaking sense.

Well, I I have not been working. You know, I made it clear that I don't want to work until we're paid up, but my

thought was by creating the illusion that I would continue working for him, maybe I could, you know, get get some of this money paid up before I tell him I'm leaving.

Um Okay. Let me Let me try one more time, okay? This guy doesn't pay people and he lies

about it. That's not going to change

based on any action you take.

This is a guy This is what he does. He He's a liar and a thief.

That's who he is.

The best thing you can do with liars and thieves is to distance yourself from them. So, that you don't get lied to and stolen from.

Agreed. So, I I I'm afraid, sir, you've lost your money because you didn't keep your finger on the pulse. And that's on you. It's also on him cuz he's a snake.

But, dude, you need to get a job yesterday and quit trying to figure out a way to get this snake to not be a snake. He's a snake.

Yeah, I I just think you're afraid of something. You're That's why you're doing this moral stuff and throwing these words around. That's all that is is you justifying your lack of inaction.

And you've just been two lessons you got to learn here. You have not been paying attention to what's going on, cost yourself a lot of money. Number two, you're afraid to step out. You think this guy is the only guy that's going to pay you and you're in one of the most sought-after trades there are right now.

That's right. There's a massive need There's a line around the block of people hiring master electricians. There There's such a shortage of people in the trades. Yeah.

So, you you can go get something tomorrow and you should have yesterday.

He uh He offered to transfer the titles on

some trucks and trailers to me. Do you think I just take that and run?

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Like instantly.

>> case scenario? Yeah. Yeah. I won't file a wage claim if you give me a truck and a trailer worth what uh you owe me. 100%

>> And I won't file a wage claim on you with the state. Yeah, that that he needs to do that.

And and that's redemption for his thievery.

Okay? Yeah, take them. And then hey, maybe you set up shop for yourself then.

If you got a truck and a trailer, let's go, baby. Yeah.

Yeah, that is the plan. >> That's a guy I can trust, the guy in my mirror, right?

Very true. But now, you're going to have to have someone help you with the books cuz you don't pay attention to them much.

>> [laughter] >> That's very accurate. Sorry, Tom. You walked right into it, buddy. >> [laughter] >> I love you, man. But yeah, you can be a good electrician and a bad businessman.

So, be careful if you're setting yourself up in business that you learn the business skills, too.

>> [laughter] >> Wow. Ouch.

Uh >> [sighs] >> You know what that is? That's a guy who works his butt off. That's right.

>> He works hard and he and most of everything he's gotten, he's outworked everybody else. >> Yeah. And he thought he could outwork this and and Folks, when you get in a situation like this, what you can't do and Tom's a nice guy and he's an honest guy and a good guy. We're picking at him a little bit, having some fun, but um we've all done things like he's done.

What he did is he took his personal character of high work ethic, high honor, high integrity and tried to superimpose that back on the guy who's a snake.

Cuz he thinks other people are going to be like he is.

And um you know, what that'll leave is a scar.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, it already it already has. Here's the great news. I'm we until the very end of that call, we thought he was getting nothing. And and so, the lesson here is is and again, not picking on Tom, but there's fear. We didn't have time to break it down, but for him holding on and I'm going to tell you, fear of the unknown just holds so many of us up us all

calves. I've done it when we don't know what's next, right? Whether he goes out on his own or he's got to get out on the street, you will put up with things that you would not normally put up with and I'm telling you for everybody listening and watching, there's a lesson here.

He's terrified of something, maybe just change. And that's normal by the way.

Doesn't make Tom a weirdo. That's all of us. So, learn the lesson there that when we have that fear, the fact that he called us today is good. Get some insight from other people, Dave, cuz what will happen is is you get into this you know, you're in this loop that I can't >> rumination rumination, thank you, that's the word. And it's really dangerous. Can hold it back a lot of progress.

>> So, I spoke at a church yesterday and um between services go out and talk to people and all this stuff and and a guy came up and he's like, "How do you get over the fear of running your own business?" And I said, "I'll let you know." Yeah, [laughter] great statement.

Right. I mean, the editor John Johnson of Ebony magazine said uh the entrepreneur is the only person that can go from sheer terror to sheer exhilaration and back every 24 hours. >> That's right. >> And so, yeah, that that's so yeah, I got me a truck and I got me a uh uh uh a trailer, but and and and I have the skill, but now good it's scary as crap.

>> scary and I want to acknowledge that, right? >> So, yeah, you're you're you're right, too. That's very good. Well, I I tell you that's a good guy. The couple couple lessons are If you listen to this show, you can learn things. That's the idea. It's not just entertaining. >> [laughter] >> Um although Ken is quite entertaining.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. >> But, the uh you know, two takeaways is one, you got to pay attention what's going on. >> Yes. in detail Yeah.

>> cuz no one else is managing you but you.

That's right. And then two is don't try to make a snake into a rabbit. They're just snakes. Yeah. And so, uh just because you might be a good person doesn't mean you can expect that of other people. You you can't always expect other people to react the way you are going to react, to do what you would do in that situation cuz let me just tell you if Tom was in charge of the payroll Mhm.

the first day he couldn't make a check a payroll check, he would have been sweating Mhm. and terrified and would

have sat down and told the guy day one.

That's right. >> He would not have lied to him. He would not have hid it from him. >> No.

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Ken, which of those are you going to be in? All four, Dave. They got me in the anchor spot. So, I'm trying to keep things uh somewhat controlled You're trying to keep the Laura and Rachel in the right on the rails? It's a hard work. That'll be a lot. That's a lot to ask of one man.

>> [laughter] >> I'm excited. It's going to be fun.

Ethan's in Salt Lake City. Hey Ethan, what's up?

Hey Dave, I'm so glad it's you on the air. I've been listening to you for a little bit and I'm like, you know what?

I need a good butt chewing from Dave and I was hoping it was you today. I'm just going to leave the studio. I've never heard anybody ask for it that plainly.

Careful what you ask for.

No, I I need it.

Um so, a little bit of what's going on. I mean, I got a really great job. I mean, I make

six figures. I made about 140 last year.

Good. What do you do? Honestly, I've been really blessed. Uh, industrial refrigeration. Good for you. Well done.

Okay. So, it's yeah, a really good trade. Um, work for my dad. He takes

care of me. Um, but recently bought a house from my dad.

They moved. And he took a hit on selling the house to us, but gave us a 100,000 gift as a down

payment. And that also left us with 150k

in equity. And I was like, I I mean, this was a step up in life.

Might as well take it.

And the payments, they were like, "Oh, it'll be tight, but you should be able to do it." And my first mortgage payment come out, and we're getting ready to have a kid, and I just paid outright for the kid.

And I watched my checking account go, and I was like, "Oh." And then, How much is your mortgage payment, sir?

Uh, so, it's 3250 and about 3700 total with utilities.

Okay. Mortgage payment's not your problem, but your truck payment. How much is it?

Um, so, my I actually don't have a truck. My company pays for truck and gas

and everything. Got a car for my wife

because the other vehicle we had broke down. How much is your vehicle for your wife payment, sir?

514. Mhm.

Okay. What other debt do you have?

Um, so, recently also found

what I thought was a good investment on um, some mineral rights in Idaho. And

so, bought that. That's about 400 a month. Um that's 4,000 total there and then

I thought I was a big boy with a big boy job and um saw a bike pedal bike, but it's the Ferrari of the pedal bike world and decided >> Okay, so so you just keep going about buying and buying and buying and buying. So you have you figured out that's the problem.

I guess you have.

Yeah, I uh Yeah, so sell the pedal bike and sell the mineral rights and get yourself on a budget and stay out of restaurants and quit buying crap. Is that going to work?

Yeah, that's uh what I've been doing. I just Yeah. So what will the Ferrari bike bring?

Um so it's actually pretty good return.

Um I'm trying to sell it for 9K, which is about 5,000 under

what it should sell for, but I owe that's what I owe on it. >> you can get rid of it. Okay, what about the mineral rights?

Um so it is a lease to own, so I'm paying the guy. Um I could reach out to him and see if I can cancel our contract and see what that entails.

>> Yeah. Just say what what do what do I need to do to be out of this cuz I can't afford it. I bought a house. I got a kid on the way and I'm broke.

And I can't I got I got I got I got to get I got to have some relief here. What do I do to get out of this? Just quit paying you and lose your rights? Sure, done. You can have it I'll give them back to you. I'll sign them back today.

That's probably what it is. So um you know, you just got to work through everything like that and so what you do is you just figure out the last time something made sense and go back to that point and undo everything since then.

That's what I'm doing. Yeah, before I bought the house. Yeah, yeah, the house is probably a bit much, but I don't think it's really your problem. I think it's all the other crap.

And you don't have a plan. You're not living on a plan. You just look to see how much is in the checking account and that tells you if you're okay or not. That's not a budget. You need a budget.

You need to get on every dollar. I'll give it to you give you a free trial on it and get you started. You and your wife sit down tonight, give every dollar a name. You make freaking 140k, stay out of restaurants, don't go on vacation, get rid of the Ferrari bike in the middle rights and let's get this thing to balance. I think you can do it.

Yeah, um That's a pretty light budget.

You know, that's not bad.

Yeah. Uh just realistically, I've been on the edge of this cuz my wife we really like her car. It's really reliable for her and the kids. Well, you probably need to sell it, too.

You think I need to sell it? >> Yeah, probably.

Think if I get rid of everything >> you didn't have any payments but a house payment? I think your life would be pretty good.

Oh, it'd be amazing.

>> Okay. I think your budget would balance and all of a sudden you wouldn't have been calling Dave. So, see, you know? But you keep buying crap and just going it's going to be okay.

It's not going to be okay. You got yourself into a mess.

Yeah, uh paycheck paycheck. Is anything about that feel good to you? Does this work? I mean, you could get her a $10,000 car.

People don't die in $10,000 cars, huh?

Yeah. I don't want a couple of >> Yeah. How old are the How old are the kids?

It's got one. Uh my son's four, my daughter's two, and baby three is any day. My point is those littles don't need the nicest minivan or the latest SUV. They don't care. They're just going to throw goldfish on the carpet anyway.

And grind them in with their grimy little feet. >> We hear this all the time. It's a rationalization. You're not the only person that ever does it. Well, I've got two kids. I got a third on the way. Got to go get a car I can't afford. Nobody cares. Get your Get your old worn-out minivan that just gets you from here to there until you've got a little money piled up and then pay cash for her a little better car.

But you guys, you know, you just been acting like you're in Congress and spending money.

You got to stop it. And you know what to do. You already knew what to do before you called. And that's why you set the call up the way you did, which was kind of humorous and fun, by the way. But um but really, I mean, look in the mirror, you and your wife go grown-up time, three little babies, and stupid butt stuff has to stop.

And, you know, this is grown This is What do they What do the kids adulting?

Yeah. >> Yeah. We're adulting >> Okay, Dave, question for you. I haven't asked you this in a while.

>> What is going on in the in the mind of a human, cuz we've all done this, where there's this awesome feeling about getting the Ferrari of pedal bikes?

And and you know deep down that you can't afford it, but you still do it anyway. What's going on? They're not looking No one looks at whether they can afford it. So, what happens is when you do not have an overall plan Mhm. like a budget. Okay? And a detailed game plan

of this is what we're going to do with our money on purpose. It could be a Ferrari bike. I don't care. I mean, you can buy Whatever is in your detailed plan. When you say, "Can I afford this couch?" and you look at it as a part of your overall life plan and the numbers,

then you can tell if you can afford the couch. >> Mhm. When you're just walking through the furniture store and you're disconnected from all those other numbers, then you go, "Of course I can afford the couch. It's only, you know, whatever. It's I can of course I can afford a $9,000

battery bicycle >> Mhm. thingy, whatever." But it's the Ferrari Tesla of bicycles. But yeah.

[laughter] Probably catches on fire. But the um But yeah, I mean, but but you What it mostly is, "I can afford that boat. I can afford that." When you don't look at it as a part of a whole, and you look at it as a stand-alone thing, then you go, "I make $140,000 a year. I can afford a $10,000 thing." That would be true if

you don't look at it as a part of the overall picture. But when you plug it into the overall picture, it screams insanity.

And same thing with your car purchase, same thing with your house purchase, all these things. And you just go, "Yeah, if I didn't have anything else to think about except this one couch, sure."

But lots of time but we never do that.

And and so it's not it's compartmentalizing rather than looking holistically causes us to be insane.

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>> Patrick in New York City. Hey Patrick, what's up?

Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. I'm 66 years old

in relatively good health, still working. I own my own business. I have a net worth of 9.5 million dollars.

And I want to make sure it's in the right place and by the grace of God and a lot of years following Dave Ramsey from a bunch of different shipyards throughout the US.

Uh the discipline paid off. Man, you're amazing. $10 million net worth, dude.

I'm proud of you.

Yes, sir. Wow.

>> to be just to be clear, I've never lived high on a hog. I'm first generation Irish Catholic out of the Bronx. So, I'm not impressed by I heard you say Ferrari before and that sort of thing. Um I I live very simply and I'm very content.

Good for you. Good for you. How can we help you, sir? You're amazing.

Right now, I have approximately $580,000

in cash in the bank.

I have another 3.9 million in CDs with

various maturity dates. 401k's from my

corporate life in my earlier days working for people, I have approximately $3 million.

I have probably approximately $1.4 million in properties. There's no mortgages and they generate about $8,500

a month gross before any taxes and that sort of thing. I own three vehicles that are less than a year old. They're all paid for and my Dave Ramsey emergency cash fund in the proverbial cookie has about $30,000 in

cash in it. Well, plus 580 in checking.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yes, sir. And 3.9 in CDs. Okay. Wow. Way to go, man. So, how can I help again?

And I'm still working. Should Should I move that cash, that roughly $580,000 in

cash, should I bring that into I I don't really need it. I'm not trying to sound highfalutin. Should I move that into CDs? Should I put that in some other investment? I have two adult children that are self-sufficient, and obviously, please God, when my time comes, uh all of that will be done. I do have a will, but I do not have a revocable living trust or will. I trust. You don't You don't need one. Um the

Okay, I do not have that that much of a

percentage of my net worth in cash.

In CDs and cash.

Um instead of doing that, um you don't need that 3.9. You're not even using the

income off of that 3.9 or that 580, for that matter. Um and those could easily be put into something very simple, very low-key, into some mutual funds, and make you about three times more money.

Okay? And so, if you got $4 million and it earns you uh 3%, what is that? $120,000 a year?

Did I do that right? Yes, sir. Okay.

And if it doesn't earn you 3%, but it earns you 10%, that'd be like $360,000 a

year. So, that money sitting in CDs cost you a quarter million dollars last year.

Good lord. It should have been It should have been invested well.

And um so, it's something to think about. I mean, and here's the thing. If you got it in good mutual funds on the stock market goes doesn't earn what it always earns, like last year it It like ridiculous. It was crazy. I mean, we made like 26% on our money last year, but that's not real. This year we're down 5% year-to-date.

Okay? But we have a little war going on and a couple of other things.

And so but the overall market, let me look right I just pulled it up a minute ago.

It's uh no, it's down 2% year-to-date.

So, you you would have lost a little bit since January 1 after having made

ridiculous money last year. So, but the averages you're going to make way more

than you would on a CD. And I that's why I don't park that kind of money in cash

unless I'm using it for something like retained earnings here at the company. We've got substantial cash position with that. Um but in terms of my personal investment portfolio, very small percentage is actually sitting in cash.

If I'm parking money, like I've got some money right now as an example parked in a an S&P 500 fund, so just a mutual fund. And I'm going to be buying some real estate with it later.

But it it instead of leaving it in a CD and waiting to buy real estate, I'm leaving it in there earning three times more on average than I would have made on a CD while I'm waiting. Now, right now that money's lost 2% since first year. But I'm really not worried about it. It's 2% doesn't matter one way or the other cuz I'm probably not going to touch it next few months and by then, you know, I'm sure the market will be back up.

So, anyway, all that to say you've done an incredible job. I'm so proud of you. If you leave it exactly with the way it is, you're not doing anything wrong, but could you turn the knob a couple of clicks and make another two or 300,000 dollars a year on this money?

By sitting down with a Smart Investor Pro and learning about some places to park that instead of CDs and instead of in in cash cash equivalents. Patrick's going to lose a little sleep tonight off of that revelation that you gave him. But he's done so well. I mean, this is by the way >> done anything wrong. >> This is the Baby Steps Millionaire right here living on less than he makes. >> 10 millionaire. I know. Unbelievable.

Right at >> incredible. Right at 10 million. Way to go, man. I'm just so proud of it. It's great. But, this is like you did a 99 or

98% great job and all we're doing is just clicking it on that 2% so. So, nobody's criticizing you, Patrick. You got it, man. I'm If you leave it exactly the way it is, you are a stud.

>> Yeah. I'm so proud of you. Very, very well done. So, folks, here's the thing you want to think about. And this is the concept we're teaching right here.

It's called opportunity cost on your money. When you take a block of money and you put it in one thing, by definition, it cannot be in the other thing. It loses the opportunity to be in the other thing.

And so, if you take a $100,000 and you buy a car, you not only bought a car, but you lost the opportunity to invest that $100,000.

That's what opportunity cost means. So, let's say you had that $100,000 invested last year, you would have made $25,000

on it last year.

And instead, you bought a car for 100,000 that is now worth 40,000.

And so, you traded 100 for 40 instead of 100 for 100 and a quarter. That's the opportunity cost. Now, it it's okay to buy a car and they all go down in value.

Okay? I've got cars and they all go down Mine all go down in value. There's no exception to that. But, anytime you're looking at something going I'm go I not only am You were talking a while ago about making a purchase decision. When you're buying the Ferrari of bikes, what else could I have done with that money? What's the other option? What opportunity did I miss out on? And so, if you got a million dollars invested or

it's sitting in a coffee can in your backyard in cash um and it didn't make a

dime or it could have been in a growth stock mutual fund last year and would have made 250,000.

You lost the opportunity by doing the coffee can to do the 250,000. Yeah. It's great illustration.

And I actually did have a guy call in one time that had >> I remember the story. >> in a coffee can How much was it? It was not that much. It was like a half a million. But I'm like, dude, do you not understand that cash [laughter] cash in a in a steel coffee can the old

the old metal coffee cans it's going to rust >> Yep. and then bugs are going to get in there. The cash is going to actually get destroyed. >> Yeah. So when your relatives dig it up it's going to be like this little green powder. That's all that's going to be left. And and that's what you traded your half million for because you're a paranoid freak.

And so oh my god, buried literally buried it in the backyard. No kidding.

I mean whoa. Yeah, I actually know a few I know a few people that their relatives will be out there with the old metal detector looking looking through the backyard when he when the old man kicks it cuz we're know he's crazy and he buried the money back there. But you missed the opportunity. That's what you need to think about and and it's always a good thing to say gosh, if I buy a $100,000 Mercedes and 20 years later what would that $100,000 be worth and 20 years later what's that Mercedes worth?

>> Mhm. And that's the opportunity you miss

by going wonder You you missed the opportunity to drive the Mercedes by the way. If you put it all in investments and have no life. >> Yeah. So you you ought to get a good car, too. That's okay. >> Yeah. But but just think about that try not to think about the idea of the purchase or the investment as a only

this it's if I do this what am I else

could I not do?

What opportunity am I missing?

>> [music] >> And so I guess you know in modern lingo we might call it FOMO. Yeah, it's exactly right. >> the FOMO of finance is opportunity

cost. And that's what we're talking about with him. If he had that 3.9 million invested instead of sitting in CDs, he missed the opportunity to make another quarter million dollars.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, >> [music] >> number one best-selling author is my co-host today. The number is 888-825-5225,

and she's in Chicago. Hi, Angie. How are you? I'm fine. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um well, I just wanted to get some advice. My husband and I are retired.

He's 65 and I'm 70, and our home is paid

for, and so are both of our vehicles, but we have a lot of credit card debt and it's and it's open enough so that it's hard to make groceries even. So, I'm just looking for some direction. Mhm. How

much credit card debt do you have? >> part-time. Uh it's probably 35, $40,000.

Okay. And you both work part-time and you're collecting social security.

Yes, and he gets a small disability pension from the military and I have a small uh pension >> from So, when I pile all of that together, what's your monthly income?

About $3,000.

Both of you are on social security and both of you are working and both of you have a pension and you only got $3,000 coming in? Right. It's a very small [clears throat] pension. Very small social security.

>> Yeah.

Mhm. He gets 1625 and I get 1250. Total?

Right. And does that include your jobs?

Uh the jobs, I get it $400 a month and

he gets paid by the job. He does trailer repair.

Mhm. So, very Mhm.

Okay. And I And what are your cars worth?

Um my car is probably worth $5,000. He's

got a truck. It's probably worth $15,000.

Mhm. And what's your home worth?

About $300,000. Mhm.

>> [snorts] >> Okay.

Okay. And how's the how how are your how is your health and his health?

Good. We're both so far, it's good.

Good. Good. >> And I I have about $13,000 in an IRA.

Good for you. Okay.

All right. Um well, two things come to mind immediately.

One is uh you can't do this backward and expect it to work. You don't pay the credit cards first and then figure out how to eat. You eat first.

Keep the lights on first. Keep the

homeowners insurance paid first. Keep

gas in the car first, then with what's

left you pay what you can on the credit cards.

Credit cards are not first in line, they're last in line after you survive.

Okay, so it's not like after we pay our credit cards we don't have the money for groceries. No, it's after we buy groceries we don't have money for credit cards. You see the difference? >> Yeah. Yes. So that's the first thing we adjust. The second thing we adjust is I mean, you're only 65 and 70, get a job.

Well, we both are working. Part-time making nothing. Right. $400, I mean,

you're starving to death.

You're too broke to retire.

Well, that's true. Yeah.

I mean, what what if you guys went to work for a year?

Like full-time jobs and made 30 or 40,000 bucks each and you paid off all these credit cards.

Right.

Yeah. Yeah, um I thought of that. >> what you You didn't think you were going to hear that today, did you? We It's not what we wanted to >> [laughter] >> It's just a lot physically physically on us even though we're in good health. >> I'm not telling you to wait tables, but I mean, you're I'm talking to an intelligent lady that can carry on a conversation. There's a lot of customer service stuff you can do that's not physically draining.

Here's the question I have. I'm listening to your stats, Angie, and I don't think I've ever been on a call like this where I've heard somebody who has a paid-for house, paid-for cars, and you have 35 to 40,000 dollars of credit card debt. So what is the cause of that?

It's just accumulated over time. There's just always been There's just always been a lot of more expense than we had income and it just kind of accumulated and then when we couldn't buy groceries and we put it on a card or when I needed um $1,500 worth of car repairs and didn't

have $1,500 on me, I Mhm. Sure.

>> put it on a credit card, things like that. Yeah. Well, we we're going to have to spend enough more years in the workforce to reverse the trend to get your incomes up

and enough of a nest egg a little bit of a nest egg built to where it doesn't leak again down into this, but cut up the credit cards and and let's go crazy and get them paid off. I I you know, I I'm not asking you to sell your house,

but before I keep this credit card debt around 5 years, I would sell the house.

And instead, I if it's me, I'm going to I'm going to roll up my sleeves and do something and just get rid of this mess.

It's just lingering and you guys are walking around acting like you're retired and you're broke.

And and the good news is you still got your health and in today's world, 65 years old is not that old. I am and I work. So, um you know, and and at least they claim I work.

>> [laughter] >> I think I think we can call it work.

Yes. Show up pretty regularly, you know, so um you know, I Yeah, you can do that. You you can go do something. I don't know what your past career was, but go pick up a job doing that as a consultant or anything and him too.

And if you you know, again, I you don't have to go swing a hammer and you don't have to do something you know, carry a waitress tray of 800 lb or something. I'm not asking you to do that, but um but I think there's something you guys could do to generate a few thousand dollars a month and a few thousand dollars a month to make this credit card debt go away. Yeah.

It's This is not a sustainable situation. So, first thing is re-prioritize and take care of you, what we call the four walls of your house, food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities before you pay any bills.

You eat first.

Then you pay bills. You don't pay bills and then hope you can eat. Then secondly, we got to get your income up to be able to address this overall issue or we got to start selling stuff to cover it and I don't think that's viable here. I don't think your house is crazy. I mean, if you're living in a million-dollar house or something, I'd probably have you move down in house and clean up this mess. But um but your house is not out of control, your cars are not out of control.

Uh thank God they're paid for.

But um your problem is you just do not have enough sustainable income to live on.

And that's what caused the credit card leakage to your point. >> right. There was a There was margin issue. So, here's why baby steps two and three are so important.

Uh you've got to get that debt paid off, but then you've got to have that three to six months of emergency fund so that you aren't tempted to solve the problem with a credit card. There just was no margin for you to be able to have a rainy day fund. It's really important at the advanced age here to have a really well-funded I know. Hey look, man, I'm not far behind, all right? I'm trying to catch you.

>> [laughter] >> But I mean, it's really true though because if you have limited income at that age and a car goes out for $1,500 and you don't have an emergency fund you fix it.

That's what they did. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's the things that we would tell you to do, kiddo. And hang on, we're going to set you up with a free offering on every dollar the app and that helps you put your budget together and you and your husband sit down and look at the numbers and the numbers are going to tell you eat first, pay bills last.

That's a short-term fix. Your long-term fix is create income to clear off these credit cards and chop them all up. Light a candle tonight and have a plastic surgery party.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Bethany is in Ashland, Kentucky. Hi

Bethany, how are you?

I am so thankful you took my call. I'm doing well, Dave. How are you guys?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, my husband and I are ready to sell everything and change our entire lives.

We need your help. Okay.

Um, we started out with $750,000

in debt um, when we first started our journey and we met you.

And we've got that down to 450,000.

Well, actually 439,900

now. Way to go. That's a bunch.

It is um, it's crazy and we are just we

have this unique situation where we bought a house on 125 acres in Kentucky.

It's a beautiful farmland.

But we've always known um, we would want to build our house one day. The house that's on it is not our ideal home and I know your principle is if you don't love it, you know, um, maybe you can just consider selling it and so that's kind of where we are.

The um, the house we bought was 190,000. It was a steal.

Um, The house and acreage?

>> Yes, sir. >> That includes the 125? >> thousand. So, the house and the 125 acres was 190,000.

Yes, sir. >> you. I'm catching up. Okay. What is the 439,000 in debt?

Um, 250,000 is what is left of my husband's medical school student loans.

So, your husband's a doc.

He is and he's a great doc. Great.

What's he make?

Um, currently he makes 325 annually.

16,000 a month is his base salary.

Okay. And um you have 250 in medical and I

assume you have this mortgage or something owed on the land, is that right?

It is 162,000 outstanding. >> So that's the two debts, that's it, isn't it? That's the whole thing, isn't it? No, sir. It's 19,500 for a car. It's actually the 10-day payoff. I just called today and the 10-day payoff is 19,500 on our Honda Odyssey. We have five boys ages six and under.

>> And so the is that your only three debts?

Uh 8,400 left on a sawmill.

For a total of 49 439,900.

>> And all of this was purchased after you decided to get before you started decided to get out of debt.

Um I'd like to say that, but we got married in 2016 and that's when we moved

from Ohio to Kentucky and bought a house because the land was a steal and we we had not yet been convinced of the >> the time you started getting out of debt, did you buy a Honda Odyssey and a sawmill?

No, not since we've got this um Okay.

>> Not since we've got this Okay. So you're not you're not falling off the wagon, you're just plowing through past mistakes.

Yes, sir. We want to get out of this stuff and we're ready to sell everything.

>> you've already paid off $300,000.

Um I don't know why I mean and your mortgage is is a portion of this.

Mortgage is baby step six.

So I mean, I think you can be debt free with that great income. You should not have any personal overhead to amount anything. You pay off the sawmill and the Odyssey pretty quick and then let's tear into the medical debt and you should be done in a couple more years, shouldn't you?

Well, sir, I love that and but I'm my husband and I have been discussing this and we think that we could get 450 easy out of our house if we sold it today. Okay, then where are you going to live? >> And sold everything cuz we can sell for

we can sell the house for 450 if we put the offer for 500. We can sell the sawmill for 30k. We can sell the dozer for 30k. We can sell our car for 19.5

and buy a beater. And I just and then we're like, where are we going to live with five boys? Do we rent? Do we buy something for about 100 to 150 with whatever equity with whatever what after we sell everything, you know what I mean? All the assets. I mean, I'm talking full liquidation, go Dave Ramsey, like we are done.

Well, you know, full Dave Ramsey is not necessarily full liquidation, okay?

That's you know, we're going to liquidate with wisdom and and to accomplish the goals with that and accomplish the goal you want to accomplish. But for sure I'm selling a bulldozer and a sawmill, no question about that in a heartbeat. And if you want to move, if you don't like the property and you want to move, well, sure, you could move down and and that's not as a temporary measure, but then you're sitting there with $325,000 income and zero debt.

Right. >> Yeah, and that's okay, but just think through where you're going to live and what you're going to do. Let's not do this impulsively. I want to have a strategy.

You know, okay, my desired feature is is to be debt free. What must be true for me to get there? Well, I could sell everything. Where would I live in the meantime? Okay, what would I drive in the meantime? You got to solve for that.

If you solve for that and you and you're okay with the answer to those questions, then do it.

But it's not the only way out. You have a fabulously large income.

And you live in an area with zero cost of living.

Yeah, I I've got a question. If if if if we could just eliminate the debt, some generous person comes along and pays off the debt, would you want to stay on that property and build a really nice house where you are now?

No, sir. Um that's the the downfall about the property. There's no other house seat to build on. Okay, then sell it. >> See, that to me is the ultimate on should you sell the house? Yeah. It's not because of debt, it's because you're not going to stay there anyway. Yeah, so do it. So sell it. >> we we are rich doing this. I love it.

Listen, listen, I rented for 2 years.

>> not going to stay there. Right.

No, I think she loves the straight. >> want to build a house for sure. We want to We want my husband and I have a dream of building a business that's multi-generational impact where our boys to grow up into and it could be a family thing. >> Okay, then. So that land and this house don't figure into the equation, true or false?

That's true. Then sell it. Then sell it.

But that's that's different than >> [laughter] >> that's different. That doesn't fit into the equation for your future is different than I'm selling everything including every stinking thing I love and I'm going to cry when I sell it just to get out of debt. That's a different that's a different answer.

And so you're not doing that. You're selling stuff you're going to sell anyway cuz you're not staying there.

If you could if you win at the end of the game, you're not on that property.

And so sell it now and advance the piece around the board. Yep. That's what you're saying. Yep.

Um and yes, definitely sell the sawmill. I don't know whether you sell the stupid car or not. Again, you've got a $325,000 income. You ought to be paying that car off in a couple months and keep it if you've got it since you got a tribe of youngins to run around in a hot to see with, right?

So I don't care. You make enough money for that to not be my problem.

And three of those years are probably going to be somewhat uncomfortable.

We'll call them the adventure years.

Yeah. But with all those boys, five boys under that age group, they're going to tear it up anyway, so >> [laughter] >> just go rent, let them have some land, you know, get a ranch with plenty of room and I love this idea of now you've got this doctor who's got a huge upside,

zero debt.

Uh this is you're actually really fortunate to to be in this situation to have this land. >> Considering the mess you made, yeah.

Yeah, so yeah, I'm with you, okay. It took me a minute to catch up. I just want to make sure you're not, you know, only doing this and I do want people to get out of debt and I do want you to sacrifice to get out of debt and I do want you to do this, but I want you to do it with a plan and with a strategy, not just, you

know, Dave Ramsey said. Mhm. That's not a strategy. Yeah, that's right.

>> Okay, a strategy is I want to be debt-free for my family so that I get control of my largest wealth-building tool, which is my income, so that I can invest and change my family tree and create a generational business. >> That's exactly right. >> That you you know, you work your through your so that's. That's why you're doing it. And yeah, I just want to get there as fast as I can, she's saying.

Well, do it. Sell it.

And it's over. Pull the plug on it.

And by the way, put the go and put the sawmill and the bulldozer under the stupid column.

And put a check there.

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>> Are you sick and tired of working so hard and have nothing to show for it? I feel like a rat in a wheel, Dave. Run,

run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, get nowhere.

Well, that's normal. Normal's broke. You don't want to be normal.

You want to have a different plan than that. You don't have to live that way. Our Every Dollar Budget app will help you find the extra money in the margin to start to clean up the mess and then to build wealth and increase your generosity.

Yeah, it gives you a personalized plan to beat debt and become wealthy. In 15 minutes, you're going to find thousands of dollars in hidden margin. We know how to do it. We're going to show you how.

And then you're going to have like us in your pocket walking around like me telling you what to do, the other Ramsey personalities telling you what to do the whole time. Start Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Amber's

in Kansas City. Hi, Amber. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I apologize I'm highly emotional.

I am in the process of getting divorced and I am terrified I'm going to lose my

home. I own this home with my daughter prior to getting married. I had a hundred thousand dollars inheritance put down

as a down payment. So, my mortgage was a hundred and eighteen thousand total.

After that, and I met my husband and um

he got the mortgage in his name only, but my name's on the deed, too.

And I found out that accidentally, um he had ran up a bunch of debt.

On the house?

Against the house and in loans and um

credit cards.

And uh Okay. The situation became very dangerous, so I got a no contact order and the judge ordered that he pay for X amount of dollars for so long and

he purposely did not pay um which got everything behind.

So what did the judge say then?

Um the only we used that as um a means to get him to sign a divorce.

Like settlement. >> You let him off so he would go away.

I No, I didn't have a choice. Yeah, you had a choice. You just chose to let him off so that he went away. I don't blame you, but that's what you chose.

Okay, so how much is owed on the house now?

214 Mhm. thousand dollars. Right. And what do you make a year, hon?

Um last year I made about 47,000 gross.

Okay. All right. I own my own business out of the home. Mhm. >> And I have somebody that's willing to help co-sign. No. Can we

You've already got a mess. You don't need to need to make it worse.

Um what's the house worth?

315,000.

Great. Okay. What other debts did you

take on to get rid of said deadbeat?

Just what he put in on this house. So 214,000.

Um but about Yeah, about 100,000 because the mortgage was 118 before >> what I mean you got a $214,000 debt now on a $300,000 house. You make $47,000 a year. All right. How's your business doing? Is it growing?

Yes. I How long has he been gone?

Um he he had to move out in July.

Okay. And you're safe now, right?

Uh um No.

Why aren't you safe now?

Because he still comes on the property. Like he's highly intelligent. He shut down my cameras.

Shut down Shut down your what? Did you call the police?

They won't do anything.

>> a no contact order. Of course they'll do something.

And you can't prove When somebody shuts down your cameras, you can't prove it.

It's What do you What is your What is your business?

I run a dog day care and boarding business and I make a lot of money compared to doing [clears throat] social work, which is what I did before. Yeah.

And this is what I'm meant to do because I've asked God Okay, kiddo, listen. Stop

Stop a second, okay?

You can't breathe because you're terrified.

So, we have to solve for

making sure that the abuser goes away or

goes to jail.

Otherwise, you have to go away and reset

your life somewhere else so that you can breathe again.

This is not sustainable. No one can live in this stress.

I I know, but it's a process because I

had a He was drugging me and raping me.

And so, I have stuff turned over to the police, but But that was all before July. He's been gone since July and the only thing since then he's cut down cameras, right?

Yes. Okay.

So, here's the thing. I can't move because I move it, the same things will happen. So, running from it isn't the answer. Why would the same thing happen?

Because he messes with the technology.

Like the other day he started with Apparently you can get an app for a sound bar. Okay, just a second. Wait a minute. Wait wait wait wait wait wait. Now now we're starting to sound Okay.

Now Okay, so um

you need to contact your attorney, you need to contact the police, and you need to contact your pastor, and you need to get some people in your corner. It sounds to me like just in the few moments I've had with you that I'm talking to a terrified lady who is dealing with extreme trauma.

That's what it sounds like to me.

It sounds like my little sister has been through hell and um now you're looking over your shoulder at every shadow.

And I really don't blame you for that cuz you've been through extreme stuff, kiddo. But it sounds like you're probably going to have to go start a fresh life somewhere else.

The good news is you know how to care for animals and you can restart a business somewhere else while you work another regular job to get that started and take your 100,000 out of this house and move cities and go somewhere else and let's just start fresh. You need a lot of distance between you and all of these events and this Do you agree with that?

Yes, but after >> And he's not he's not all powerful. He cannot find you when you just simply leave.

He's not all powerful.

He's just a

He works in IT. He's highly intelligent.

>> You've told me that three times. I don't think he's highly intelligent. I think he's a bully and an abuser and a twerp.

He's trash.

I don't care if he's highly intelligent.

He's not that intelligent.

He's got you believing he's omnipotent, but he's not omnipotent.

I'm not impressed.

You need to leave and go get you a life, kiddo. Somewhere. You got to do something different. This is not working. And you you know staying there saying he's highly intelligent and he keeps coming on your property and nobody can do anything about it is not a solution to your problem.

That exasperates the problem. So we have to throw some dynamite in this situation and something has to change.

And I don't give a crap if he thinks he's highly intelligent. I I kind of doubt it actually. I think he's got you believing a bunch of stuff that's simply not true.

He has completely got you what we call buffaloed.

But I don't blame you. You've been traumatized by the jerk and but I'm telling you if I'm you if oh wait a minute should you just say where do we go? Where do we go? Okay, so hey Amber do you not have family in the area?

Um no they they live a couple hours away. Good. Go be with family this week.

Mhm. Pack your suitcase, get your kids, call your clients and tell them you can't keep dogs this week and leave.

You need some distance between you and this.

Does that sound like something smart to you? You're going to have to take some action steps.

Okay, you get cuz your dad and your brothers need to know this so they can beat the hell out of this guy.

Somebody needs to stand up to this guy, okay? And it's not you.

Somebody needs to get between you and this and you got to get some distance between yourself. So you need to check yourself into a domestic violence shelter or you need to go be with your family tonight, right now.

Get off the phone, go pack your suitcase and go do that right now.

You got to put somebody in your in between you and this mess where you >> [music] >> where you can get start to get your perspective back.

But you have some options. They're not pretty, but you have some options.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by WhyRefi. If your private student loans are in default, it's a mess, but WhyRefi can help you clean it up.

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Declan or Decklan.

Let me say that right. I think it's Decklan in California. I'm 20 years old, run my own business, and I'm on track to earn $250,000 this year. The income

isn't consistent yet, but it's growing.

I have 100,000 in savings, and my only debt is 20,000 on my current car, which is worth about 25,000. I'd like to buy a used C8 Corvette for 50,000. I could pay cash, but I was thinking about financing part of it to keep liquidity in my business and build credit. My business relies heavily on personal brand and social media.

Image and perception matter, and a car like this could help with credibility and marketing. I don't want to make a decision that looks successful, but is dumb financially. Is buying this car a reasonable move if I can afford it?

>> [laughter] >> Okay, so we have a lot in that question.

Um well, first of all, we want you to follow the baby steps, right? So, you've got 100,000 in savings, and your only debt is 20,000 on the current car. So, we need to pay that off or sell it, and

and at that point, then you're looking at the used Corvette for 50,000. The

question, Dave, I bring you in here. I know our formula on assets like a car,

which is not actually an asset, depreciates.

If it's in his business, and he can pay cash, and it's for his business, is that a viable option there? Again, assuming

he's got the cash. >> and I wouldn't buy it for that. But, if you make 250,000 a year, can you drive a $50,000 paid-for car?

>> Yeah. If you pay cash for it, yeah, you can do that. It's that simple. But, all this other crap about I'm going to I'm going to look successful or whatever. Um here's a good way to look successful. Be successful.

Yeah. And it feels like some of our life is about how you quit worrying about how you look. Um Instagram is not the real world, even if you are making your 250k on YouTube or Instagram as an influencer at 20 years

old. That scares me, but um yeah.

If your income is steady at 250 and above, you really think you're going to be making that, can you drive for to drive a $50,000 car? The answer is yes, if you pay cash for it. Right.

And so, yeah, I would sell my current car, and I would buy the Corvette for cash, but I wouldn't do anything about I wouldn't run all this credibility and marketing and all that BS through your head. Just go, "I want a Corvette." I've got the money, and it's not a big percentage of my overall world. Yeah.

know, that's okay to purchase that. Um and don't buy a new one unless you have a net worth in excess of a million dollars. Those are our three contact rules on vehicles of any kind, cars,

boats, pop-up campers, whatever else, right? And so

Yeah, so I was in a city, I'll just say, in Ohio last week. Uh, doing, you know, working. We're out there traveling. And we went by, I guess that city

they make uh, or or maybe maybe the manufacturer or something of the uh, of a RVs is there.

I've never seen so many thousands

thousands of RVs, like parked all across the side of this hillside. Wow. It just blew my mind. I thought, that is a lot of rust. >> [laughter] >> Yes. >> That is a lot. >> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz every one of those stinking things is probably 100 grand. Oh, yeah. >> and [clears throat] more. And and there there was thousands of them. Where are those things going? It's just blow blew my mind. I I felt like a country boy going to town. I'm like, what are they doing with those things?

But I it's crazy. You know what's funny, they're making money on the financing of all of those. That's where the money's at. >> I guess, cuz man, they ain't it's they're sitting out there in a field rotting down, looked like to me. Oh my gosh. Really, I'm sure they're being shipped to China or something. I don't know.

Wow, crazy. Yeah, um

So, that In business, when you do anything for appearances you can write that down under the dumb column. >> [laughter] >> Uh, we don't do stuff for we do things that give return on investment in business. And trying to appear to be something is never a return on investment. Just be the thing and then people will figure out that you is the thing. Yeah, like if you're basing all of your success on the car that you put in social media Tik Toks or Instagrams.

For that matter, you don't have to spend cash on that. I'd go rent a car like that. See, that's where you start rationalizing. >> a number of these guys that are music artists and they they've they rent a jet for the day to do their video and it never leaves the ground.

>> right. Like they had a jet.

>> Such an illusion. So, play the game and has a fraction of the cost. Yeah. Julie is in Houston. Hey Julie, what's up?

Hey. Uh, we're big fans. Thanks so much for taking my call today. Thank you. How can we help? Well, okay. I have a a question about a

specific long-term care option. Um, and this is

So, it's an indexed universal life insurance policy. >> No, it sucks.

Oops. And a long- Okay, so here's the the back story is, so my husband and I are um, nearly 60. We're pretty healthy.

We're still I'm still working. Husband's semi-retired. What's your net worth?

Uh, we have about 2 million in uh, mutual funds. We have no debt. Whoever's trying to sell this to you, stay away from them.

Okay. So, we're getting a little money um, from an inheritance about $100,000.

So, that's what our question is.

For 50 for two $50,000 premiums, we

could buy this thing, um, you know, which of course if we do get sick Mhm. as 6 years of a really good

payout, or we could just put it in with

the rest of >> in with the rest of your investments.

I would If I were If I had $3 million, let me tell you, I'm 65, okay?

Um, net worth of hundreds of millions. I am not I'd have zero long-term care insurance. I want to buy long-term care insurance for people I want people that have a million dollar or less net worth to buy long-term care insurance cuz a nursing home stay is a hundred hundred and a quarter a year right now, and the average time is 2.9 years.

Yeah. So, you got a $300,000 exposure, is what you got. On average. You can self-insure that with $2 million. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Just

just self-insure it. I would not I would just If he has to go to the nursing home, and by the way, he will before you on average. 75% of the ladies outlive

their husbands.

Uh yeah, well. That's the average.

>> He'll he'll he'll be a beast in a nursing home, so hopefully he won't make it. >> Yeah. Well, [laughter] you know, or maybe or maybe it's long enough that the $2 million is $10 million, and you just hire somebody to live at the house and take care of him.

Yeah. Okay. That's kind of what we were wondering. I mean, it sounded good, but

>> It isn't good. It's a piece of crap. It's whole life life insurance that you're prepaying up front, and then the supposedly the cash value will cover your long-term care insurance. You'd been much better off to just invest the money and let the interest off the money buy your own long-term care insurance.

But even better yet, in your situation, you guys can self-insure through it.

Yeah. Okay.

But long-term care insurance is excellent if you're over 60 and your net worth's under a million million and a half. >> Ah. Oh, interesting. Okay.

Okay. But that's that's But that never never never never never use life insurance as an investment. 100% of the time those policies suck. And this one sucks particularly bad.

Index universal life is one of the worst products on the market today. And it's only sold by those goobers who sell it. Everyone else in the financial world looks at it and laughs at these morons like they are the uh payday lender of the middle class.

if this is your financial planner pitching this, you need a new financial planner. I don't know who's pitching this to you.

Or Charlie over at the church, then you just need to distance Charlie to no business with Charlie at the church. This is what the crappy sweat pedals is. Hope I wasn't unclear.

Speak careful with Charlie. He's not all smiles and handshakes, folks.

>> [laughter] >> By the way, my favorite line of that is he would be a real bear to eat her cereal.

She knows I got to get a nurse for my husband. He can't He would terrorize the whole >> Nurse Ratched.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality and number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

Naomi is with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Naomi. How are you?

I'm Keith Smith. How are you doing, sir?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um well, I First of all, I want to thank you for taking my call. Um I have $112,000 in debt.

I have um four credit cards and I also

have a car loan and a personal loan.

Some student loans.

Um the student loans right now are deferred. I currently have To I have totally I have actually three jobs. I have two jobs that pay me about 90K a year.

And then I have another job which I'm a waitress and I make about $12,000 a year and that's cash paid. Okay. So, that's like $102,000 is your income. And you have a have $112,000 in debt. Agreed? Yes. Yes. Okay. How old

are you?

I'm 40. Okay. Are you single?

I'm a single mother, yes, of two. How old are your babies?

Uh one of them is 18, and the other one is uh seven. Okay.

All right. 18-year-old uh adding some income to this equation?

Uh he's he's starting to.

When?

Um he has a part-time job, and he's look seeking a full-time job. Yeah.

Time to be a man, my son.

Yes. Yeah.

Cuz his war is princess warrior single mom mother has helped him get all the way to 18, and now he needs to not be a burden, but instead be a blessing.

Okay. That's one thing. Okay, cool. All right. So, it sounds to me like that you've been raising two kids on your own in the Los Angeles market, and this is a very tough road, and you work your tail end off, and you feel stuck.

That is That's correct. Yeah. Currently have Um I'm going to by Friday I'm going to have $9,000 in cash. [clears throat] Um which I'm paying trying to pay a credit card off, and I have my emergency fund of a thousand dollars in euro dollar in euro money.

Euro? Why is it in euros?

Um I was stationed in the um in Europe.

And so, I brought back some money that I had myself. >> So, you were in the military?

Yes, I am. Oh, you are now?

Yes. Okay. Thank you for your service.

Okay. I will convert the euros to dollars immediately.

We're not We're not playing foreign currency. We're just trying to have a thousand dollars.

Okay? That's correct. >> And then the nine Then I'm going to list all of your debts smallest to largest, and I take it your credit cards are probably your smallest debts, correct?

That is correct. >> Yeah, so list them smallest to largest.

We're going to pay minimum payments on everything, cut up the credit cards, and get in attack mode. How much do you owe on the car?

On the car, I owe 30,000. That's a lot.

Okay. And the student loans, are they on hardship deferral?

Uh yeah, they're they're on defer um Good. Uh and they're 30,000 on that.

>> That's where they need to be right now.

Okay. So, that's 60 of your 112 is those two

things. And the And then you got a personal loan. What is that? Just at the bank or credit union or to an individual?

It was through um the credit union.

Okay. All right.

Ouch. And how much is it?

That one is I believe the is 20 24K.

Okay. All right. So, here's what I would do if I were in your shoes.

It sounds like you've kind of got this on the run a little bit. And number one, 18-year-old starts bringing some money to the table and at least carries his own weight, no pun intended. Okay.

Number two, um we're going to we'll list our debts smallest to largest and attack them in that order after we've converted the 1,000 euros into 1,000 dollars. Okay?

And that's probably going to give you a little a little extra to throw on the other things. So, we're going to list the debts smallest to largest, attack them in that order. We're going to get on an every dollar budget. Every dollar

needs to behave. What you have tried to do and have successfully somewhat successfully done is survive.

And while you were surviving, you just thought I can work hard enough and

be real careful and everything will work out, and it didn't.

You work hard. You're You work for like a crazy person. You're a hero. You took care of your kids. You're amazing. I'm so proud of you.

So, um are you getting child support on the 7-year-old?

No. Why? He makes about almost Oh, he

makes about 150 to 170,000.

And he pays zero child support.

>> Why?

Um I don't know. I'm Well, I think you should stop by the JAG office and say, "Gentlemen, I need some help." I think JAG will help him pay.

They're really good at it, by the way.

Okay. Like tomorrow.

Yes. Yeah. Give them all of his information. Say 7 years, he's never paid a dime in child support. And you know, that's what JAG's for. They're for you. They're going to help you out.

They'll take care of this. It'll be amazing how efficient they are at it.

Because I in your in the military, they do it all the time. So, you guys you know, they take care of you, and you should be taken care of. All right. So, that'll help, too. And I want you on that every dollar budget, cuz I want every dollar to behave. I want you to pretend like I hired you, and I'm paying you $100,000 a year, and your job is to get these bills paid.

And you would be you would be very detailed if I told you that, right?

That is correct. >> Yeah. And so, I'm going to give you every dollar and get you signed up for it, cuz it's going to guide you on what to do, and it's going to help you lay out every dollar has an assignment for the whole month. And I just want to commend you, Ken. I mean, to fight what she has fought for all these years, >> [clears throat] >> you know, as a single mom working her way through this, it gets lonely, and you get tired. Yeah.

Well, you got three jobs, and that didn't even count the waitressing job.

So, you got three and a half.

So, you're not not to be stopped if you've got a plan.

But, uh two things I want to circle back to. You need to take this deadbeat to

the law and make his life so miserable he starts coughing up money. Don't get weary on that. Take that warrior mindset to that. The second thing is, if you have any equity in that car, do you have any equity at all in the car? Are you upside down?

Uh I I should have equity. How much?

>> It's a It's a Toyota. I don't know. All right, here's what I want you to do, okay? Look it up because that $9,000, if

you've got some equity, pay that car off. So, I mean, sell the car rather, excuse me. Sell the car, take what's left over that 9,000 and and get yourself a functional car because that

car payment of yours is pretty big, I'm guessing. What's your monthly car payment?

Uh 740. Yeah. Ma'am, that's a 85 That's

$9,000 raise, essentially.

Sell the car and use that cash to get a

functional car. I'm just going to pay that credit cards. I agree with Ken. I just want to get you some more breathing room quickly. So, let's pretend that the $30,000 car is worth or $30,000 debt is

and the car is worth 35. If you can sell it, get that five in your hand plus this nine and buy you a $15,000 paid for car, that's a nice car. >> Yeah. >> [music] >> And now you got no car payments. Zoom, zoom, we just kicked this thing into high gear. >> Yeah. And um >> [music] >> cuz that that car is 750 bucks. Jeez.

Wow. Yeah, that's good catch, Ken. I I walked right by that. I missed it.

>> [music]

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[music]

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>> When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I can never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain." But, do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> One of the best things you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro >> [music] >> in your corner that you can trust.

They'll help advise you on the best moves to make your situation for your small business or whatever. Yeah, save some big money on taxes. And if you've had big life changes in the past year, yeah, you need to think about that as well.

A divorce, a death, a new big job,

something big happened, good or negative, you need a tax pro in your corner. And especially you're running something complicated or small business.

ramsaysolutions.com/taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsey team and are Ramsey trusted. David is in Mobile, Alabama. Hi, David.

How are you? Hey, Dave and Ken. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Sure, what's up?

Well, first of all, 15 years ago, I was

uh I was in a bad place, lots of debt, more than I care to admit, but thanks to you and your team over the past 15 years, my wife and I are now in Baby Step 7. I've been on the debt-free stage, I've been on the cruise, been to your place, and uh we're Baby Steps millionaires, Way to go. I'm proud of you. Good for you, man. Along the way along the way we we've raised our kids to to

be um Ramsey kids, I guess. And so my my

oldest son, he's been married now for about a year. He and his now wife have been through the high school curriculum.

They went through Financial Peace University during their marriage counseling. Um no debt, cash-flowed

college, vehicles, everything, no debt.

Um and they've just gotten approved for their first mortgage to buy a home, um very reasonable house, and they've got $30,000 to put down, and

the mortgage lender kind of threw us a curveball the other day, and she told them if they would take $5,000

and put it in an account and use that to

secure a $5,000 note and pay it for 6

months, that would give them some credit and potentially lower their rate by up to 1%.

And I guess I You're you're being you're being overcharged.

Okay. If you go to Churchill Mortgage and they do manual underwriting, there will not be a difference in the rate.

Okay, well, we're actually waiting on Churchill's proposal to come back now.

>> Yeah. They can do manual underwriting, no credit required. You're saying the kid has absolutely no credit at all.

Zero credit. Perfect. Yeah. Okay, so

has he he a job?

He does. Yeah, they've both have a job for a year now. Both have good jobs.

She's a school teacher, he's an engineer. >> They've been paying rent during that time? They have, yeah.

>> And they have $30,000 to put down?

Yes. >> There's no rate difference whatsoever.

Crazy. >> So the mortgage lender that you have is um incorrect for whatever reason. I'm going to be gentle.

Okay. [snorts] >> But yeah. >> All right. Well, that's good to hear. Like I said, she has applied at Churchill and she's she's waiting on that that information to come back, but that kind of threw me a curveball when I heard that. Yeah, hang on. I'll have Christian pick up and we'll make sure our team holds their hand and connects them into Churchill cuz I don't want them to do this other deal. I want them to get a good manual underwriting

mortgage loan. We do it all the time and have for decades with no credit at all.

You there's no interest rate difference.

And so this lady at a minimum is not just does not know how to do it. And so you need to get away from her.

It's that simple. So Ken George Camel

Yeah. >> and and Whitney bought their first house that way. Several John Delony bought his house that way.

Lots of other people, thousands and thousands and thousands of others, but a lot of mortgage companies don't know how to do it and I don't know what kind of hook or crook this lady's trying to pull here, but um is is scary right there.

>> want to do it either. They don't want to screw with it. But yeah.

And so um what manual underwriting is

before See, I got my real estate license in 1978.

Before there was a FICO score

the banks actually used to do an analysis of the individual in detail to figure out if they could pay the freaking bill.

It's called underwriting.

And so they would send out when I I write a contract in a in 1978, 1982,

they would mail out a VOD, a verification of deposit to the local bank, and the bank would verify that the $30,000 is in the bank. They would mail out a VOE, snail mail, a verification of employment to their employer, and he would send back a this how much they make, this how long they've been working here. And they would send they would mail out uh to any creditors, uh a landlord, and get a uh a record on how they actually paid their rent. That's called underwriting loan, and you're doing an analysis of the person's life to see if the indications are that they can pay the bill.

You have their income, you have their track record with their rent, you have their down payment verified, you do all of those things, and that's how loans used to be written. And then along comes FICO, and uh and FICO's like a monkey can make this loan. It's like they look at the number and go uh uh, you got the loaner. Uh uh, you don't have the loan, right?

uh, got the loan. [laughter] That's exactly what has happened here. Yeah.

And so it's just dumb. But uh this is

the ridiculous thing of FICO, and so

FICO's got way too much power. It's not that accurate to start with.

And so uh but Churchill Mortgage and a few other mortgage companies know actually know how to do manual

underwriting, which doesn't matter if you don't have a FICO score. This kid does not have a FICO score cuz you can't have a FICO score if you don't borrow money. It's the only way you can get a FICO score. A FICO score measures how much money you borrowed, how you paid it back, what type of money you borrowed, and how quickly and all that kind of stuff. It's all a it's an I love debt score.

So if you don't love debt and you haven't borrowed any money and you don't have any open accounts for a year, your FICO score will just disappear.

I haven't had one for 30-something years. Uh and so apparently I'm not here.

I'm not real. I'm a hologram.

Because I don't have a FICO score. What?

Yeah, what? Look at me. I'll be like, "Cash for stuff." It's crazy.

And so that that's you go to a mortgage company like a Churchill Mortgage that can do manual underwriting if you have no credit, zero credit. Now, if you got

bad credit, that's a different problem.

Like you haven't paid your bills on time for 2 months or 2 years, you got a different issue then.

But zero credit is a wonderful place to

be and you get the exact same rate as someone with the stupid enough to have an 800 FICO score, which means you paid the bank sometime or another 100 grand in interest cuz you've been paying and paying and paying and paying and paying, playing their game, playing the I love debt score game. Ding ding ding ding ding ding. And that that's what people get into. So this kid is second generation and doesn't have a FICO score.

That's so cool. It's cool. Well, I mean, again, dad starts paying attention to the Ramsey ways.

in that >> 15 years later he's a millionaire.

Right? >> He's a millionaire. He's a millionaire. So the son gets it. But But see, this is the whole thing that you mentioned the word game. It is a game.

These banks These They understand what they're doing. They need you paying interest. That's where they make their money. So it's a game. So we're going to create this system that everybody needs to play ball by.

Diana's in San Francisco. Hi, Diana. How are you?

Oh, I'm doing great. Um thank you for taking my call. I think you guys are um terrific. >> Thank you. How can we help today?

Um I'm 79 years old.

Um I have no debt except for my house. I

owe 125,000 at less than 3%.

I have $96,000.

I've heard you speak of stock market

um and mutual funds.

And I understand the four ways you put in. Um I I'm wanting to know actually if if I

can do something like that with with with what little I have. But my um my

initial question is gold, silver, and

you have coin, you have solids, you have paper. How are you feeling about

gold, silver?

I buy my investments, Diana, based on track record. And the track record on gold over the last 50 years is it's earned about 3% a year.

Average. Meanwhile, it takes you on a roller coaster ride that makes you want to throw up. But it averages out about 3%. So, I don't own any gold except some cufflinks. That's the only gold I've got or silver.

And so, I think I'd probably sit right where you are. If you want to move a little bit of that into some mutual funds, you could, but be very calm and very careful and learn a lot about it before you do it.

Hey guys, I've got big news. The Ramsey Show is going on tour, and this is your chance to be more than just a listener.

You get to be part of the show. So, hear questions asked live and experience the kind of momentum that only comes from being in the room. We'll be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim

with a limited number of seats in each city. So, last fall, we completely sold out in 72 hours. So, do not wait. Get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com/events or by clicking the link in the show notes.

>> [music]

>> Good friend of ours just dropped by to talk about his book Restored. Chris Brown is a pastor, author, speaker, radio personality, church leadership expert. He planted a church here in Columbia, Tennessee, just south of here, uh just a few years back. I spoke over there yesterday.

Thousands of people coming out. It's an incredible young church exploding. It's kind of like Ken's, kind of like going to a youth conference. A lot of young people.

>> a lot of fun. The praise and worship is a blast. It's a lot of fun. Anything but boring.

Uh and Chris and Holly have been friends of ours for 20 years. Chris was on our speaking team here for a while. So, me me and Ken and Chris have shared the stage many, many times and shared airplane seats for that matter. A lot of a lot of hours flying around all over the place and working together.

for today. And uh Chris, Ken, and I, of course, know your story. We've heard you tell the story many times from stage and heard heard you walk through what God has done in your life. But, was there a specific event in your life that made you want to tell this story now?

Actually, it was a story from from being at Ramsey Solutions. It was a story of my first time I ever spoke at Catalyst, that conference back in 2015.

That was probably my first big event, and we had a a time where we got in a in a boardroom, and we dissected the talk in front of the board, and it was super I was super stressed out about it. And uh we dissected it, and I was talking a little bit about my past, but I was not peeling off the layers and I was not vulnerable.

And uh someone spoke up in the room. I don't want to won't mention anybody, but his initials are D R D R. >> Yes, right. [laughter] Sounds familiar.

He spoke up and he said, "Hey Chris, people are going to see you on that stage and they're going to perceive something like a silver spoon kind of guy who's always had it right and you need to be more vulnerable. And I was scared to kind of pick that scab of a

traumatic childhood and uh some really bad things that have happened in my life and it was at that moment I realized that I need to be more vulnerable and more honest about my past and to steward it.

Yeah, I you know, you know our audience well, Chris. You know some of the emotions. You know the stories all too well. And inevitably, there are a lot of people right now watching and listening to you and they're in some deep pain. Yeah. You know, maybe some relationships stuff that is causing to make financial decisions that are causing more pain.

Whatever it is. To the person who is in the middle of it feels almost like it's unbearable. What would you say to them?

Yeah, and actually a lot of the book I I kept this audience in mind because being on this show is a call after call of mistakes of shame, of regret, of guilt,

of of money mistakes, relational mistakes. Um I would say um the goal is that we would take our pain and it would turn into somebody else's hope. I want someone to read this story and read the things that have happened in my life. It's the same thing with you, with your bankruptcy.

We hear what happened when you came out of the bankruptcy and it gives people hope of you know what I if if he can get out of that hole, then I can get out of the hole that I'm in. And so I think Proverbs 13:12 says hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life. And so the goal is to just like the mission statement here is to inject hope into people's life. And if you're listening in today and you've made some mistakes, I love this line when you're speaking and you said, "Who here has ever made a mistake in your life?" And then everyone goes, you know, raise their hand.

You know what that makes you? And you say, "13." You know, we've all made mistakes with money. And so that would be my my my prayer is that everybody listening in would say, "Hey, yeah, I have made a mistake. I can own it, but I want to steward it and maximize it for future I want to inject hope into someone else's life.

>> And sometimes the mistake you made and others sometimes it was a mistake other people made. I mean, Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> That that's the situation around parents that were screwed up and family situation that was dysfunctional and all that kind of thing and it leaves you without food or it leaves you without shelter or it leaves you without comfort. And that's not that that you're a victim of that, but it's still something it's still a part of your story and it still has value.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you meant you used the word victim. And of course you guys have all heard it before we can have a victim's mentality or a victor's mentality.

The sting is going to be there in your past regardless. So it's what are you going to do with it? Are you going to suck the nutrients out of it and make sure that you use it and maximize it and leverage it? For me I'm a believer, I'm a faithful person.

So for me it's leveraging it for the kingdom, leveraging it for eternal impact. But man, all of us who made mistakes, those of you who made mistakes with money, take what you've learned, the principles you've learned and then help your neighbor, help somebody in your class, help somebody in the workplace. And that that's what the whole book's about is to like leverage whatever's happened your past. You can't change it, whether it's happened to you or you did it to yourself, and maximize that for the kingdom or maximize that for maximum impact here on this on this earth.

purpose for today. Chris Brown is our guest, local pastor, friend of ours, and a member of our team in the past, and uh we've gotten to work together all these years. So, one of the things that people ask all the time since we're people of faith, and they ask you the same thing as a pastor, I'm sure, is, "Okay, if I'm in the middle of this stink, maybe I caused some of it, maybe some of it was brought on me by other people.

Mhm. Either way, I'm in the stink.

Where's God in the stink? Mhm. Yeah. You know, the world that the the Bible says, and I believe it's in Matthew chapter 7, and I believe it just said it says, uh "There will be troubles in this world." But Jesus says, "But I have come and take heart, I have overcome the world." And so, we do have to know that there is evil, there is darkness in this world.

So, things are going to happen to you. And we have a we have a responsibility to be the light in the darkness. Uh have you heard it before, thermostat or thermometer?

So, whatever you whatever you're struggling with today, and uh you just need to know that Jesus is right there with you. That's been That's been huge for me, to know that my hope is not just in wishful thinking, but my hope is rooted in the promises of Christ. A hopeful expectation of a better tomorrow based on the promises and the character of Jesus. It's just a big difference between that and hopeful thinking.

You know, I've run into so many people that uh verified the same experience I had 30-something years ago at the darkest of moments.

strange peace anyway.

>> It's like, I this does not even make sense that I'm that I have less anxiety, Mhm. and I have no idea how I'm going to get out of this. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And and what it's going to look like. But here I sit at the bottom with a baby, and a marriage hanging on by a thread, bankrupt, and I have no idea what all this is going to happen, of course. But I remember distinctly sitting there having this peace that passes understanding. >> Yes.

Yes. It's just And it's strange, and and And I think that's God just showing up and going, "You're going to be okay." And even if your brain doesn't tell you that, it just soaks through the rest of your body and the rest of your body goes, "For some reason, I think I'm going to be okay." Yeah. Yeah.

I'm very excited about our audience checking this out. But one of the things that we humans have to face in the process of healing is dealing with shame. Yeah. >> Shame is such a powerful emotion, even years later.

>> Mhm. How did you unlearn shame if if I could word it that way or or what would your response be to someone who's just kind of wallowing in some shame? Yeah, I think you shame is just I think it's a gap between your expectations and what actually was reality. So, I think for all of us, we just need to understand that we are going to make mistakes.

So, when you make one, you're not shocked. It's just it's not if you're going to make a mistake, it's when and how big is it going to be because we are fallen humans. Romans 3:23 says that that all of us have fallen short of the glory of God.

Uh so, that that's that fell off of me really really fast that way. And then, anytime that you're helping other people, it helps reduce the shame because now you've leveraged something out of it. The Bible says in Proverbs 11:25, "Those who refresh others

themselves are refreshed." And so, for me, I've used even my bankruptcy uh that happened in the recession in 2007-2008.

Uh I've used that to take biblical principles that I've learned from Dave and learned from Ramsey Solutions. And I've tried to like just maximize everything I learned as I clawed and clawed out of bankruptcy uh to be successful with money again and try to try to restore that shame. So, the refreshment now just trumps the shame.

>> Yeah. That's good. Pastor Chris Brown, we're proud of you.

Thank you. We love you. Glad you're Glad you stopped by again today.

>> [music] >> You're welcome anytime. The book is Restored, transforming the sting of your

past into purpose for today. Be sure you

check it out.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Our scripture today, Proverbs 16:8, "Better is a little with righteousness [music] than great revenues with injustice." Albert Einstein said, "Try not to be a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value." Woo, there you go. Felicia's in Chicago.

Hi Felicia, how are you?

I am so well, Dave. It is a beautiful day and I'm on this side of the grass, so I am praising the Lord. I love it. I love it. How can we help?

All righty. So, I am a 23-year-old

blue-collar homeowner from the Midwest.

I'm in a pretty I'll say uniquely

blessed financial situation that I can't

really find many resources on just how to navigate. Um So, from age 18 to now,

really, I guess I made a lot of really dumb financial decisions. I racked up

about $15,000 in credit card debt,

bought a brand new car in 2021, got underwater in payments, and I even took out a debt consolidation loan on those credit cards. >> You did all this stuff. >> I I I did all the stuff, yeah. I'm I'm

You know, they say you you make up for the mistakes you make in your early 20s in your later 20s. I'm doing it now.

Um But I I kept using the cards on top

of paying my mortgage. And at worst, I

was over I want to say just over $25,000

in consumer Um so, in November 2025,

my mom passed away from cancer and left

my sisters and me the beneficiaries of

her life insurance policy. And I used that money to completely wipe out all of

my debt. So, um now in 2023 >> I Um no, I still have my mortgage. I'm sorry. >> Okay. Everything So, you're debt-free except the mortgage, and you make what a year? >> Yes. I make just about a little over 80,000 a year.

>> Good for you. Okay. Your question's what? >> Thank you.

Um so, I I guess my question is that

just how how should someone who just

escaped debt um, manage money

responsibly when they've never had a savings before. Mhm. Um, [snorts] I just saved my first $2,000 and I I I

kind of feel like a little kid and your mom just gave you a a $10 bill, you know? >> Yeah. Um, it's like Monopoly money and all that. I'm First and foremost, I like I would use the story that is your life as my motivation. Okay? In other words, if I misbehave

with money again, that is bringing shame to the legacy that my mom left me.

Sure. I don't want to disappoint her

if I'm you. >> Right. I never thought of it like that.

That is a fantastic way of looking at that. >> So, when you look at it and say, "I've got to do this cuz mom got me cleaned up this time, there's not going to be another one of those if I screw up again, and so I'm I need

to honor that memory, um, cherish that gift, and the way to say thank you

for it is to be a grown-up going forward. Now, then once we say that, we say, "Okay, how do we do anything well?" Well, it starts with a plan.

I mean, if you want to get in the car and leave Chicago and you say, "I want to go to Florida," you don't just start driving.

You actually load a map call on your GPS, and it starts to give you a step-by-step. First, when you leave Chicago, you're going to go to Rockford, and then you're going to or whatever, and then you're going to go to, and then you're going to go to, and then you're going to go to, and if you keep doing and then you're going to go to, you'll look up and you're in Florida.

And uh, you know, and so we're going to lay out a game plan. That's a budget.

And we're going to give you every dollar and give give you a trial run on it, where you start where you take this app and you download it and you take your income, and I want you to tell every dollar of your income what to do as if

it was your job to manage money for you incorporated.

Okay. It's your job now to be an adult,

not a child, and manage money responsibly for you incorporated. And you have to report to your boss.

You have to look at and turns out your boss happens to be in your mirror.

Okay? So, your job is to manage money for you cuz you make too stinking much money and you got this wonderful one-time get out of jail free card and you can't screw this up.

So, I've got to make this money behave, as you said, I've got to be responsible.

And I love your attitude. I think you're awesome. And I think you're going to be able to do it. I talk to some people sometimes and I can't tell if they're going to do it or not. I think you're actually going to do it. >> Mhm. I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

>> listen, let's get let's get gazelle intense in the baby steps. You know them well, so you are on your way to fulfilling baby step three, right?

So, what's the target? Is it 3 months expenses? Is it 6 [clears throat] months? What are you going to do? I'm going to write down a number. >> Write down a number and just >> money out of your income to get there.

>> That's right. And then once you get done with that, now it's 15% of that income and we're going to start investing for your future and at 23 you're going to be a multi-millionaire.

If you save 15% of your income with an $80,000 income, you're going to have 10 to 20 million dollars when you get to 65.

Oh, that is so hopeful. Oh my goodness.

>> That's the gift that's the gift your mother gave you if you're a grown-up.

Mhm. If you're a child, you'll be broke and living on social insecurity.

>> [snorts] >> Mhm.

So choose well.

>> will. Yes.

I sure will. Oh, that is fantastic.

>> You got it, kiddo. I'm proud of you. You can do this. Mhm.

So lay out a written game plan and then use the money that you find in the budget to walk right up those baby steps as Ken indicated. That is perfect for you. And And we're going to do it all in mom's memory. All to honor the free get out of jail get get out of jail free card that she gave me.

And I get I get I get a clean slate. I get grace. I get the chance to start over. I get a do-over.

Remember playing football in the backyard, you get a do-over? >> Oh, I love do-overs. You know, that's what this is. She got a do-over, man.

She gets another shot.

Ben is in Austin, Texas. Hey Ben, what's up? Doing good. How are you doing, man? Better than we deserve. What's up?

All right. Um I am

Things are going off financially 3 years ago. Wife moved out. We're going through separation. Comes with lots of lawyer fees. To help me out at one point, a friend gave me a loan for $26,000. Good

lord. Um the backup Yeah, it's This has been the most expensive thing in my life. Um that was originally backed up against my 401k. And he said, "Look, you know, why you uh is come March, you go ahead and if we need to, we'll do that." So I'm typically net cash positive unless bunch of legal stuff comes up and then all the positive that I was goes out the window.

Um So uh here's my question.

Cash uh cash out 401k and pay that off or I've been finding uh some personal loans through you know, Lending Club or SoFi and these other things that will end up costing me an extra $5,000 over the term of the loan. So if I cash out my 401k, What do you make?

Uh 110. Are you past the divorce now?

No, Yes, We are still in the thick of it. Okay. So, how are you going to cover the future legal fees?

That That's That's part of the issue.

Um I am currently um Okay. So, this guy loans you $26,000

and he wants it back before the drama is over.

You know, when when he lent it, uh

it was The The deal was you would have it back by March.

Yes, sir. And What made you think you were going to have $26,000 by March?

You know, honestly, sir, at the beginning of it, well, a couple of things. One, I thought I was going to be net positive enough to pay off most of it. Net positive on what?

Well, so, sir, typically, I'm making I'm net positive $2,000 a month.

>> Oh, you're talking about your income. You were going to make enough income to pay him back by March. When did he make the loan? >> Yes, sir. Uh September of last year. Well, honey, you're not going to make $26,000 from September to March at $2,000 a month.

Absolutely. So, so, initially, the plan was I I wasn't going to be able to pay off the full 26 by then, um but I was going to pay off a lot of it. So, um And to be honest, sir, I I was I need to pay the lawyer, and that was That was where I was at. >> are you going to pay the next lawyer?

Uh >> [laughter] >> Not sure. >> Yeah, this is a mess, dude. All right.

So, I would borrow money to keep from cashing out your 401k

because it's less interest to pay your friend off. And you guys got to slow down and do a little do a little math here before you do these deals, son. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 19. Building Wealth Is Simple (But Not Easy) | March 5, 2026


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:42:20 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studios, this is the Ramsey Show. Rachel

Cruz, number one bestselling author.

Ramsey personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co-host today. Open Phones at8255225.

Thanks for joining us everybody. Steve is with us in Cleveland. Hi Steve, how are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, yes, I took out some loans for my business last year. uh totaling about 90,000 and I am unable to afford the

payments now of course uh went through the slow season being that we are in the

deck and carpentry uh business and so um

that was pre-taxing on uh funds and so

I'm looking to join a debt consolidation

program here that will reduce my weekly payments from $2400 down to $1,200.

I'd like to do that, but my wife asked me to call you, so here I am.

>> Okay. So, >> Oh, man. What a what a motivation to call Steve. >> Yeah. So, you borrowed $90,000 for what?

>> Uh, the deck business. I was looking to scale it. >> And you didn't?

>> Uh, no. Going into the slow season here, we did not. >> Well, I mean, you knew there was a slow season when you borrowed the $90,000.

Yes, that's correct.

I intended to spend that money on marketing, doing some home shows, uh upping our marketing budget through that time, um bringing on a salesperson,

uh just ramping up the sales and uh kind of musling through the slow season with still bringing in revenue, but uh the weekly payments um were just more than

what we could handle. uh the sales

didn't go in the same trajectory that I had planned on and uh we did very poorly

these last couple months in sales.

Okay. Well, there's a correlation between doing poorly in sales and the slow time and the fact that you dumped $90,000 in stress on top of your own head and that affects you running your business well. Uh I've been there. I remember. And it's not it's not a fun thing. So, you're really feeling this pinch hard. Um,

so what does your business make? What's your gross revenues on your business in a year?

Uh, so we're in year uh year, we're

going into year four now. Um, we went from 250,000 in uh 2024

to uh 350,000

in 2025.

Um, I'm sorry. Uh, that was that was around September here. Uh, we are we got to 440,000 at the end of 2025. We did about 100K in

sales in September.

>> Mhm. Okay.

So, the first thing is we you I hope that you've learned your lesson that borrowing money to expand your business is a dumb idea.

>> Yes. >> It's a dumb idea. >> Yeah. I don't I do not intend to do that again >> ever again. Okay, so the next time you get ready to expand expand, use your profits to expand and don't take as much home or don't expand. One of the two. Okay, those are your two options. Borrowing money very seldom works, especially in these scenarios what you described here.

So you the magic sauce you thought was marketing and some sales guy when it turns out listening to your sales numbers, you were the magic sauce. You took a business from 250 to 450 in 12 months. That's pretty freaking incredible. And so that's your answer to get out of this debt is for you to take the business and kick it in the butt and get it going. And if you hire more people to do more decks during the season, that's fine.

Um the debt conolidation loan, uh I I I

do not know, um how did you borrow the 90,000? What what kind of debt is it?

Credit cards?

No, it's uh they were uh

micro advance kind of loans. They were a

it was a uh short-term loan is what it

was. So, they were short-term loans.

>> Who do you owe the money to? >> The interest was uh there's three different creditors. Um

one is and you want me to name the creditors on here? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Um yeah, we had micro advance

>> um forward financing.

>> Mhm. >> And then we had what I thought was a debt consolidation loan uh for TE Capital. Okay. It's actually >> So it's good for it's good for America to hear these names because if you hear these names run

>> Yeah.

Have you contacted a debt consolidation company already, Steve?

>> Yeah. Yeah. There's one that I plan to

work with called um it's a coastal debt

consolidation. >> Okay. How far along are you in the process?

>> Haven't signed anything yet. >> Okay, good. >> I don't think it'll work. Okay. And because what debt consolidation companies do is they typically take credit card debt or consumerbased debt, not small business ripoff debt, and um

don't pay the payments for a period of time, destroying your credit, and then uh renegotiate based on the

fact that the loans are in default, and get a lower rate or a better payment rate. >> And that's the only way this is going to happen. They're going to put you into default. And so it's going to do to your credit the same thing a chapter 13 would do to your credit.

>> A chapter 13 bankruptcy would do the exact same thing. It'll let you renegotiate the debt payments and put them on a 5-year plan and get it where you can breathe. But it's bankruptcy.

And the debt consolidation in this case, the way this is laid out, the way these loans are laid out is that way. Um, I

wouldn't do it. Instead, what I would do is say, I'm going to look in the mirror and say the secret sauce to my business's rapid growth and success is been has always been me, not something I can buy with $90,000, and I'm going to strap a tool belt on me and about six other people, and I'm going to go build a whole bunch of decks, and I'm going to live on beans and rice, and I'm going to pay the whole thing off quickly and get

rid of it. >> Do you have any retained earnings in the business, Steve? Any cash?

Uh, no. Hardly. Not at this point. Not after a few months of making those payments of this. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> When does season pick up for you? I'm assuming spring summer.

>> That's correct. Y. >> Okay. So, we're almost there. I mean, it's March. So, >> yes. >> Here in the next six. >> I'm going to start booking. I'm going to start booking stuff left and right, taking deposits, and start slamming down money on this 90K and getting rid of it.

And And I want you to be rid of it in a year. I want you to work all the time. I

want you to work so much you're about to collapse. And that is your answer

because filing bankruptcy or using a debt consolidation company, which in this case is going to sound look exactly like bankruptcy on your credit and it does for most of you by the way. You go into all these, you know, worn out, tired, retired actors telling you to get debt consolidation on some cable TV thing and then you go do it and the basically they don't pay the payments for about 6 months. you pay them and then they start settling the debts and or they start paying a payment plan on the debts, but by then you're in default on almost everything.

And so it trashes your credit. >> And if you're already at that point that you can't pay the payments and you go in default, then you could be the one to negotiate if you need to, especially with credit card companies. >> Yeah. If you want to quit paying them, you could quit paying them.

U pick out one of the three and quit paying them and let it go into default and then save up a lump sum and settle with them. But these are these were horrible loans. The whole thing, as you can tell, was a horrible idea. But the way out of it is you.

And I'd swing it.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, too. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here. And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's gonna eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options.

Take care of your dad gum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah. >> To just miss you.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back. And for all of you who are living debtree, if you're in Baby Step 4 and beyond, we want to invite you to join us in the Western Caribbean. This is the second time we've done this. This is the only cruise where you can hang out with us and me and Sharon and all the Ramsay

personalities. 7 days in paradise enjoying poolside chats, live Q&A

sessions, lots of events and things on the ship itself and uh absolutely high-end ship. I don't do the cheap cruises. I can't stand them. This is uh this is the nice stuff for you people that have are already starting to win, right? That's how we set it up. Don't wait. The ship is already halfway full and the Neptune suites have already sold out. So, lock in your spot with a $600 deposit before it's too late. We are going, of course, in March of 27. One

year from today was when this will happen. >> So fun. So fun. >> It was a lot of fun. We did it last year. >> I know. It was great. >> Looks like we're on about an every two-year rhythm to give you an idea. And so we'd love to have you go. Just go to ramseolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes. All right. Kevin is in Austin, Texas. Hi Kevin. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hi. So, um I don't know if you can you can hear me clearly, right? I um I'm 30 years old and I have made a few

questionable investments that, you know,

I spent most of my life saving up and getting ahead. I saved $34,000 over college and my early adulthood. And long

story short, I ended up losing everything um in penny stocks that someone I knew

suggested me to. And now I'm back at my

mom's house with my wife and she's not too happy about it. And I'm just trying to >> Did you lose your house and everything?

>> Uh I was renting an apartment.

>> Okay. Gotcha. How old are you? >> Do you not have a job?

Uh, I do. I do. I'm actually a uh manager at an In-N-Out. I don't know if you've ever been before, but uh Oh, >> we just got one here. >> They just moved into the neighborhood. But the uh the corporate office is across the street. But anyway, so the uh uh Wait a minute. You were a manager in In-N-Out when all this was happening.

Uh, no. So, I actually worked at uh I I

had a full red scholarship uh through college and I worked at Wendy's and other like fast food joints and I saved up a bunch of money.

>> $34,000.

>> Yes. >> You were not living on the $34,000 when you were doing all of this. You were living on your income, were you not?

>> No, that that was just my savings.

>> Okay. My point is this. There's no reason that you're at your mother's if you didn't lose your job. You just lost your savings.

>> Yeah. Well, the thing is I uh I have a bit of debt. I have a few different cars and I I don't have uh really enough money to

afford uh any kind of like, you know, any anything food related or going out to

have fun. And I kind of just figured because you know the the the ultimate goal is to escape the lower class. And

what I've read online is that you need to take a little bit of risk. Um I think I went the wrong way about that. But my goal is >> I think I think you read about it in the wrong place. If you read about financial stuff on TikTok, unless it's us, it sucks. So no, you didn't need to take a lot of risk. So here's the thing, honey.

You know, you have a debt problem, not a I lost money in penny stocks problem. If if you weren't using your savings to live on, you were already had

a life. And then plus or minus savings is the penny stock thing. So, we don't blame this on the penny stock. We blame this on the fact you bought a bunch of crap like cars that you can't afford to

pay on a In-N-Out manager salary,

>> right? I uh >> sell the cars.

it. I I I could definitely cons I could definitely sell I could sell the cars for sure. >> Yeah, you should have before you move in with your mother.

>> Okay. Um and then would I just be Ubering? Uh or do I get like a cheaper car? >> I thought you had a job.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I But I I have to get to work. >> Yeah, but you get a two car. You said Yeah, you said plural cars. How many cars do you have, Kevin?

>> Uh I have two cars. >> Okay. Do And they're both on payments.

Yes. >> How much do how much do you owe on them?

>> Uh, one of them I owe about 30,000, the

other one I owe about 20.

>> Okay. So, you have $50,000 in car debt.

And what is your income, sir?

>> Uh, about 60 after tax.

>> Okay. Does your wife work outside the home? >> Uh, no. No, she does. Um,

uh, it's it's complicated. I think that uh she I I kind of am a big believer of

the whole nuclear house, you know, so she takes care of >> you don't live in your mother's house if you're a believer in the nuclear house.

>> Yeah. I think I think my mentality was um that she can just help out.

>> Do you have kids to make that sacrifice?

>> Kevin, you got you guys got to work. How old are y'all?

>> Uh 30. I'm 30 years old.

>> We got We got to start working. We got to start Uh, I do not have children, sir.

>> Look, both of you get a job and both of you sell these dumb butt crazy cars and

go get you a one-bedroom apartment. Get you two $5,000 cars and then you'll have $10,000 in car debt instead of $50,000 in car debt. That is your problem. Penny

stock. That's what's causing you to be in the lower class living in your mother's basement, not penny stocks.

>> Uh, okay. That that that definitely makes sense. You lost $50,000 on these cars. You lost $30,000 on the penny stocks. >> Yes, absolutely. Um for for reference,

>> um I had seen it work in the but I'm I'm definitely not going to mess with that anymore. But I I did have a question as uh someone with all year experience if I'm not investing in like the riskier the penny stocks or uh call options or anything like that. Do you have a investment like recommendation for when

I build up? Yes, he >> does. So the tr the the number one wealth buildinging tool that you have is your income.

You have given that away to the car companies. And so in order to be able to be a a real investor and become wealthy

like the wealthy do it, you have to put your income into investments.

>> And it's not speculative and it's not high risk. And I put mine in basic

growth stock mutual funds. Okay, I'm

going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. 20 million people have read this book, and it's helped them work the baby steps to get out of debt because when you're out of debt, then you're freed up to start doing long-term >> investing. How much do you guys pay in car payments each month?

>> Um, I think about about 1,200.

>> 1,200. Okay. So, here's what's crazy.

Here's here's the mindset, okay? Instead of paying the car companies, you pay yourself at 1,200. From age 30, ready

for this? from age 30 to where you are now to 67 years old at a 12% rate of

return. If you just put this in good gross stock mutual funds and did nothing risky, paid yourself these car payments instead of the cars, you would have $9.8 million at 67.

>> And that's not speculative and it's not risky. >> That's what basic people do in a 401k.

>> Yes. And the lie, Kevin, that you're that you have in the back of your head, that's why you do these penny stocks is a get-richquick mentality. To build true wealth is actually very simple. You live on less than you make. You don't go borrow money. You pay yourself. So you are investing. You are saving. You have an emergency fund. So when something comes up, you're not running to debt.

You have the money saved. You invest.

You're generous. So there's a plan which yeah, the book TMMO, Total Money Makeover, will help with that. >> I'll send you that to try to help you. So the summation of the o overall call is this. You're feeling 90% of your

shame over the penny stocks and 10% of it on the cars. I want you to flip that.

I want 90% of your guilt or shame to be on the cars so you never do that again.

Cuz that's doing more damage to you than the penny stocks did. And then the lesson you learn from the penny stocks is you, you know, Abraham Lincoln said everything on the internet's not true.

Okay. So just >> did you read that on the internet? >> Yeah, I read that on the internet. So I mean this is you know, so just got to know that most of the stuff on TikTok is a lie.

Most of this stuff it >> and if you're too Can I just say this, too? Sorry. If you're two well well-bodied adults, >> both of you should be working. >> You should be working, especially if you don't have kids, right?

And to get yourselves out of this mess and to get yourself on a financial playing field that you actually then have stability and then you can make choices of, hey, I want someone home. I don't.

That's a luxury to keep one spouse at home. >> You're living like you're making $200,000 a year >> and you're not. And so, you're going to have to adjust your expectations of how this whole thing works.

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Ken is with us in Mobile, Alabama. Hi, Ken. How are you?

>> Doing great, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, so uh I'm got a quick question. I want to get your thoughts on trust. Uh I'm retired. I followed your plan uh

that I actually learned from my mother, but but I've been listening to you for years and it works. >> Well, thank you. >> So now I have uh a really good net worth. Uh I have one child and he just

graduated from college and I just want to make sure that um as my wife and I pass this on to him that it's set up, you know, protected from lawsuits and others type things. And I've had friends say, "Well, you need to set up a trust." And I just want to get your thoughts on that. What's your net worth?

>> About three and a half million including the house. >> Good for you. Okay. All right. We have

um our items in u mainly in LLC's and a few

of them in trusts.

>> Okay. Uh particularly real estate. Each of our real estate properties that has substantial value, we put it in an individual LLC. So that at worst case,

you would lose that piece of property then. Okay. in if it was sued. Okay. Um

that's your worst case with that property. Um and so if you had a piece of property worth a million dollars and you got a $50 million lawsuit on it, you hand them the keys and you walk away, right? >> Um but that's your but they don't get everything else. And that's kind of your point. >> Um ultimately the thing that protects

you much much more than that is to teach

your son how to behave. You started with nothing and you've acquired enough wisdom to run

all of this. So, he could learn to do that unless he's unless he's got a mental disability of some kind, does he?

>> Uh, no. No, he's But no, he doesn't.

>> Okay. Um, is if he's just irresponsible and immature, you can't do enough to protect him from that. He's going to screw it up no matter what you do. >> Is he Ken? What's his what's his status?

>> No. No, he's not. But but he's a very kind-hearted person and you know his thoughts are more in the social work history side of the house versus my background in accounting and finance. >> Yeah. Well, I I think I think you can have some real frank discussions with him and say in order for me to leave this in your care um I you have to have

a level of wisdom on how to handle it because that's your job as the steward of this because this is God's property and I'm managing it for God. now you're going to be managing it for him later and you're going to have to do that with wisdom. I mean really that's going to be 90% of your safeguard 10% is your

structure.

>> Okay. So it kind of falls in the heading you probably have heard this before. I teach entree I teach small business people this all the time in contract law. >> If there is no contract in the world that is strong enough to not get to keep you from getting screwed by somebody who's a crook.

They're going to find a way.

Okay. >> And you can't just say, "Oh, but I had a contract. Oh, but I had a trust, >> you know." And no, I mean, he gave it all away. He screwed up and he was kindhearted and he got exploited and he got conned uh because he had a lack of wisdom. That's going to happen >> whether you have a trust or not. whether you have a trust or whether you have LLC's or no matter how you structure your risk management process unless you remove all control from him and you put

the control of all your assets in someone else's control called a trustee and he's not your son's not allowed to do anything or make any decisions and that's just not a very good life for him.

>> Yeah. Right. I can I've heard people mention that before but yeah I just don't feel I agree with you. That's not a good life for him or and it doesn't give him any responsibility either.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And how old is he now?

>> 20. >> Okay. Good. Yeah.

So I I sat down with ours when they were about that age and that's the first time they understood that we had built a net worth from having gone broke. And we said, "Look, first thing is, you know, we're Christians and so as for me and my house, we serve the Lord. This is not yours. It's not mine.

I'm managing it for God. And if you don't leave this conversation with a sense of responsibility and heaviness instead of a woohoo, I hit the lottery. When you start to see what our net worth is that someday is going to be yours, uh then you didn't I didn't do my job as your parent to this point and I didn't do my job in this conversation.

manage this wealth for the good of the family and the good of the people in the community. And one of the best elements of that is learning to manage just our life. We're not managing any of that right now, right? I mean, it's so learning to live within our own means of

the jobs that, you know, we've chosen to take on, the lifestyle, all of it.

That's where I'm going. So yeah, there there's a level of him that's going to be managing his life after college and you get to kind of be there with him in those conversations and that's kind of his practice run honestly, Ken, before he gets handed all of this that you've built. Um, >> but I I No, the answer to your overall question is I would not put it all in a trust because I don't think it's going to accomplish exactly what you're trying to accomplish for the reasons I said.

Now, is a trust for part of it possibly a good place? Yeah, probably. just from general risk management. And it depending on how your wealth is structured, maybe some LLC's and so forth.

That's true because I'm a very poor man right now. I own absolutely nothing. Even my cars are not in my name. I don't have anything in my name anymore.

It's all in the name of something else. And my wife is in charge of all that. So if she leaves, I'm going with her cuz she's got all the kids. So, you know, I mean, that's that's, you know, it's just you really can't get to we we've insulated oursel in a lawsuit happy world.

Should I, you know, I mean, everything from that to >> Well, a lot of times people want to do a trust for different reasons than Ken, okay? They want to do a trust to avoid probate. And probate is the tax that your state has. Our state has a 3% probate.

It's not much. So, it's not that big a deal. Um, and you do avoid probate by putting the stuff into a trust, but you have to move the title of everything into a trust. That's a living trust.

>> Okay? And so, you move everything in the name of a trust and you manage everything out of a trust.

So, you don't pay, you know, 40,000 bucks in taxes, which is just dumb >> because because of the effort is what >> it's too much effort. And most people don't they don't ever fund the trust. Meaning they don't ever move the title to their house into they don't move the title open the trust. You have to you have to put all the redo all the titles to everything in the name of the trust.

>> And if you don't do that the trust is sitting there empty. It doesn't have anything in it. And so you paid 5,000 bucks to some lawyer that talked you into doing this for nothing. So get a will is what you need to do.

>> Yes. >> And then at death you can form a trust or if you're doing like a massive piece of property or something like we've got a couple of pieces of property. They're hundreds of millions.

was like a 10 million. It was something it was millions and millions and millions of dollars and that was in a trust. >> Okay, that's fine. If you want to do that, that's fine.

But the problem is it's the stuff that we have in a trust in Ramsey's it's trapped. You guys aren't going to be able to sell it. Um, so the things that we're not sure you're going to want after I'm gone, uh, we've left that in just LLC's because y'all made deals some of that stuff, but there's like this property is in a trust where our offices are the campus because that you can't sell that. You got to run the office out of it.

So run the Ramsay out of it.

>> So, um, teach them while you're alive what you want them to be. And that's that's your fix for most things. Um, and

if you're trying to manage risk and while you're alive, you know, moving some stuff, we don't put more than about $5 million or a single piece of property depending on the size of what's going on into an LLC. And so, like, we've got

enough houses in an LLC gets to 5 million and then we quit. And, you know, we don't have that. We've only got about 25 houses now. We don't have as many we used to. But um we would not let the

LLC's get too big because they don't have too big a target on them then. Uh but that's a that's not a death after death thing. That's a while you're alive risk management thing. >> That's right. >> Yeah. And so but as far as after death goes, a trust is freaking forever unless

you put a termination date on it or a methodology for terminating it as part of the terms of the deal.

>> So it's um and most people don't think that through when they do this. So, >> um, I I would go to the source and fix the source first, which is training up your boy and then go from there.

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Melinda is in Phoenix. Hi Melinda. How

are you?

>> Hi. How are you doing? Can you hear me?

Okay. >> Absolutely. What's up?

>> Oh, awesome. Yay. Thank you so much. I just love what you do. and we just started Financial Peace University like two weeks ago. So, we're very new to this. >> Very cool. Well, welcome. We're glad you're here. How can we help you on your journey?

>> Well, I'm hoping you can help put out a fire with me and my husband because we've been going back and forth of this.

>> We love to settle a debate, Melinda. We are here for it.

>> Oh, that would be great. So, we are going through the steps. He is on baby step number one, which is putting $1,000 in his starter fund. I already have baby

step number one covered. I have about $6,000 in my personal savings. However,

we have a joint savings account that has

$2,500 in it. Now, I have asked my husband to not touch our joint savings cuz it just gives me like a little bit of peace of mind of being able to cover like one month's mortgage and some bills if something happened. He has said, "Well, wait a minute, Melinda. If we just take our joint savings and leave each 50/50 put into it, you take $1250.

I take $1250. Then I have baby step number one box checked and then I can go on to paying my debt off. He has a lot more debt than I do. I don't have that much, but he has a bit more. So, he's kind of eager to start paying it off.

And I'm pushing back on him saying, "No,

I want to keep our joint savings." Pretend that's not there. And you figure baby step number one out.

>> Okay. Um, in 30 years in Melinda, in 30

almost 40 years of doing this, >> the couples that do it the way you're trying to do it fail.

>> Oh, they do. He said, "Ask Dave." He's like, "Why don't you ask Dave if we can touch our joint savings?" >> So, what what what the couples that actually win and go all the way to being millionaires, when we did an actual study of millionaires, we asked them the same thing. work 100% joint. They don't

have any yours and mine, only ours. And

so I would take all the debts and put them in one list. All the savings and put it in one list. It's not your roommate, it's your husband. And that's what we've seen to be very, very successful. It has the added benefit of

creating synergy and the other added benefit of creating massive amounts of communication and values alignment

because you really have to force yourself to work together because everything's together and then there's this unity that comes in the relationship that you didn't even see coming. So consequently what we end up hearing and I first heard this I don't know decades ago. I'd be teaching Financial Peace University in a live setting and people would say, "Oh, this saved our marriage." And I'm like, "What?" Or, "It made our marriage way better." And I'm like, "What? Sex class was down the hall." I mean, come on.

And they're like, "No, you forced us to work together and align our values and have one account and one list of debts and one life.

unity in our relationship and a communication level in our relationship that we I didn't do it for that reason.

I did it because it was practical. But that I've learned later now in in retrospect all these years later that it has all these additive benefits to the marriage as well as really increases the

probability of you winning. Rachel, you get a lot of criticism when you tell people to join accounts.

>> Yeah, some people hate that. They love having their separate thing. But that's it, Melinda. I mean, there's a there's a logistical piece to this and then there's the actual benefit to the marriage that you guys are together and how much faster you guys can win. Okay, so you just threw out some numbers. I just want to use it as an example. You you have how much saved? $6,000. Did you say >> I have $6,000 saved?

>> And then you have And then you got the $2500 over on the other end, right? And then does he have any money saved? He he doesn't have it, right? He's working on his thousand. >> $25. >> Okay, perfect. Okay. How much debt do you have, Melinda?

>> I have $5,000.

>> Perfect. Okay. And then how much does he have?

>> $19,000. >> Perfect. Okay, great. So, the beautiful thing is if you if you do the baby steps the way we've said, okay, um you're

going to have your emergency fund done tonight, your debt's going to be paid off and then you guys are going to have

a th000 or two left to hit his debt. So, it'll be down to to 17,000 and you guys working together. >> What's your household income?

>> Uh well, that's why I'm not taking my savings and paying off that credit card because I literally I make more money than him. I >> No, no, we we have an income. You don't.

We have an income. >> Oh, we have Well, I literally just lost my job yesterday. So, my >> What did you used to What did you used to make?

>> Um, I 12,000 a month.

>> Okay. And what did your husband used What did your husband make?

>> He doesn't make that. He makes 4,000 a month. >> Okay. And what were you doing?

>> Um, I'm freelance, so I'm a consultant and I'm not worried about getting clients. I'll get back up to 10 12K in a

month. >> Okay. Then there's nothing to worry Do you have an issue of what of his work ethic? Melinda, >> he works Monday through Friday really hard. Um, but he's kind of like he works uh in the, you know, he work he works also with his best friend, so it's kind of like fun and play and they're building something big, but they keep saying they're going to have this big return and it's been like two years and so I think they don't have that yet.

>> So this is exhibit A when you No, no, I get it. No, listen. This is this is exactly why we say pull your money together and work together because what ends up coming out of that is life. And

what ends up coming out of that is your questioning, holding your breath, fear around what he's doing over here. And and if you guys haven't even been aligned on that or had dates of, hey, if it doesn't hit this, then we need to move on. Like nothing is aligned within

the family unit, right? He's kind of off doing his thing. You're doing your thing. And that's how you guys are living. And when you actually force yourselves to work together, some of these conversations that can be really hard but actually very beneficial to

your life and your marriage end up coming up that you have to hit head on.

>> Okay. I would suggest that you guys begin talking about this >> idea of combining all of our savings, combining all of our income, and combining all of our debts list. I would not start your total money makeover today. keep going through Financial Peace University, but I would not I would not take you down to $1,000. When you get $5,000 worth of clients back up, which is probably two or three weeks from now,

>> right?

>> Mhm. >> Okay. When you get that, then push play on this and I want you to clean out the all of the savings except retirement down to $1,000 and pay off your debt and start paying on his 19, which are both now our debts and our savings and our

income and our house and our car and and

our goals for our goals for goals and our and your business that you're running is our business. and um I'm

uncomfortable. Uh I don't mind you having fun over there, but I do mind you having fun over there while you're not hitting good income goals. That's starting to bother me. And we need to talk about that out loud. >> Resilience starts to build and you know, I need to talk about the fact I'm a little bit scared right now. I just lost my biggest client and I'm down to zero.

And I don't like being there. >> And I feel like I'm doing a lot of the work. I'm putting a lot of the effort. I don't feel the same from you. And that's scary to me. I mean, all of it all say doesn't mean that it's the end of the world or anything. ending anything, but what this forces is this, like Rachel said, this tremendous level of communication and depth, >> but it's going to be you're going to have a painful three or four weeks here.

>> Because if not, the resentment, so people that just push things under the rug and they compartmentalize and say, "Well, that stuff's over here, here." The resentment starts to build up >> and then you look up 10 years from now and you're like, "We've never even have we've never even talked about this of how I've been feeling because I haven't had to because I've kept all my stuff over here." So, what that it just kind of forces kind of the junk up, which is not fun. Not fun. >> You're going to have a hard three weeks, >> but it's going to be But you're going to look back on all of this and you're going to have a Yes.

a deeper, more cohesive marriage because of it. Because of it. >> Yeah.

that. My wife Sharon has not worked outside of our home earning an income since our oldest daughter was born who's 40, but we have an excellent income. We have

a lot of assets. We have done very well.

And um I would not have been able to do it were she not keeping the home fires burning, were she not a lowmaintenance, low drama person, I would not have been able to work as hard as I've been able to work. So, it is a we and I have zero resentment that she did not do an income during that time. It was our decision for her to do that.

>> Meinda, I'm excited for y'all, though. I know you're new to all this, but honestly, I I'm pumped to to see where you guys are going to be. You're going to do amazing. You're you're a hard worker. You're a charger. I can hear it.

And you guys are going to be awesome. So, call us back if you have any other questions. >> And here's the thing. Try try it. You can always go back to the old way. Try something different.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Mike is in Boston. Hey, Mike. How are you?

>> Hey, doing good, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thanks for taking my call. Hey, I've got a situation uh with a solar system uh that I want to get your feedback on. I bought a home last summer uh had a solar system installed that was financed uh and warrantied through a company called Sova. Um, part of the pricing was originally inclusive of a long-term like roof penetration leak warranty and a proper production guarantee. Long story short, couple months into my home uh purchase, it started leaking. Uh, so I had to have the system removed and ultimately had the whole roof replaced.

Uh, to make matters worse, during that time, Senova went bankrupt and a company called Sunstrong took over the lease.

But unfortunately, they claim that they are not responsible for any of the warranties or guarantees going forward.

So, currently I've got about $50,000

balance on the loan and all the solar panels are in my backyard. So, I'm trying to get your feedback on what the best next steps would be. Should I just take it as a dump tax and pay it off?

Um, or would you personally have them reinstalled and just know that any future roof leak risk is something that

I'd be taking on personally?

>> Wow. What a mess.

Um, what a mess. >> Well, a couple things. I I would probably gather some information from an attorney to be sure exactly where you stand on this, but I I think you've assessed this correctly because I think the warranty was probably offered by the

company that went bankrupt. And so, the warranty is worth nothing. The lease, which is where you financed the solar panels, is a separate contract. And that money stands separate of that warrantied guarantee. although morally it shouldn't, but I think that's probably the way this is structured legally. Um,

and so, um, now I will say that

>> it's an interesting situation.

>> The the people that did buy the paper that, you know, the people that you owe the money to on this lease, they are

probably having all kinds of problems collecting on a whole bunch of this paper. In other words, this is some some bad a bad deal for them. cuz they

probably have a whole bunch of you out there. You know what I'm saying? Not necessaril not necessarily roof leaks, but everything else cuz they bought paper or they financed for a company that in turn went bankrupt and now you've got a whole bunch of dissatisfied customers don't want to pay this bill.

So, I suspect you're not the lone ranger on this. I bet you they got this every day in mass they're dealing with. So, having said that, do you have any money?

>> Yeah. I mean, in the payments like No.

Do you have any money?

Yes. >> How much money do you have?

>> I have enough to pay it off.

>> Okay. So, you have over $50,000 in cash that you could use.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I would call them and tell them I'm going to sue them because they're the only one left standing in a bad situation where my roof leaked and the solar panels are laying in the backyard.

They can come pick them up if they want them. Or we can try to settle this and

I'll give you $10,000 to pay it off and

start there and buy this note out at a

discount.

>> Yeah, >> because the note is >> it's interesting because it is a it's a loan. The original contract Yeah. The

original contract for the loan the pricing was solar plus warranty. So to the original buyer, uh the people that own the property before me, it was pack and when it was transferred to me for that matter, it was packaged as a package deal and this is the pricing.

>> So I would just loan balance. In other words, I would just say this is this whole thing's a piece of crap. You bought crappy paper. You know that you know you're not going to get paid out on it. So I'll give you $10,000 and we'll call it a day.

>> Yeah. >> You're not going to get out of that in lawyer fees cheaper than that. And then

you're going to own the solar panels and you can either throw them in the dump or you can put them back on your house. Your choice. But u but right now what

you've got is not a solar problem. You have a $50,000 problem. And I want to get rid of that. I think they're going to take a discount. I don't know if they're going to take 10. They may come back and say 20. If they do, get it in writing and write them a check and be done with them.

>> Okay. Yeah, I've got u kind of conversations ongoing. The last time I spoke with them about that, they said the price was $50,000 even today. Yeah.

Yeah, >> even though it's financed at less than 1%. >> Well, and let me help you with this. I'm going to sue you.

>> Yeah, >> I'm going to sue you and you're never going to get any of this because you people screwed me and you're one of the ones that screwed me and I'm not going to tolerate it. So, if you think you're getting $50,000 out of me, you're confused.

>> Sure. >> Because they screwed you. >> All right. For sure. I mean, that's what it feels like. >> Yeah. and you need to go see a lawyer and talk to a lawyer and find out exactly what your rights are in the state of Massachusetts. I am not a legal expert. >> Um, but this is how I would handle the business part of it and the relational part of it. And you're, you know, you're being moral. You're being honorable because you got screwed.

>> Giving them a dime for trash that's laying in your backyard is more than you should have to give them. >> Oh, with the damage, too. They should just pick up the trash and call the note off, but they're not going to.

>> Yeah. >> And it's going to cost you more than 10 grand to get in a lawsuit. Promise you.

>> Yeah, I can imagine.

>> Yeah. So, I don't want you to go there, but I really want them to believe you're going to go there.

>> Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, I'll just have to >> Yeah. Double up your fist and bust them in the nose. >> Get back on the call. >> Yeah. Just bust them in the nose. Just hit them hard. I'm serious. Don't be nice. >> Do they Do they hold the loan? The company? >> Yeah. They're the ones >> Well, what happened was the paper was sold and then they went bankrupt.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the new company holds the paper. But I'm saying Yeah.

>> But they bought paper that they knew was bad. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> They because they bought it from a company that was going bankrupt and it screwed a bunch of other people. So is >> CL I mean they're like it's like a case study and screwing people.

>> It's not I'm sorry you got taken. It's a

mess. And then you've got to decide if you want solar on the house and whether you want the roof to leak and all that other bull stuff. That's a that's a whole another discussion as to whether or not it's going to be worth screwing with. But um might be, might not be, but

that that's that's where we get to. Wow.

What a mess. Wow. All right. Up next is

Michael in Minneapolis. Hey, Michael.

What's up? >> Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel. How you guys doing? >> Great. How can we help?

>> Good. Uh just uh to say first, uh we

have no consumer debt and the only thing we have is our mortgage. It's 155,000.

It's about $1,273 a month. Uh, and to

start off, uh, I have an opportunity where I can get, uh, go back to school to be an electrician. Uh, I wanted to do that back in 2019. I left it for some dumb reason, and I got put in a weight list. Um, I now have this sales job. I'm making 65,000 a year plus commission.

I've been doing that for about a year now. And it just, we just got done with this debt, all our little debts, and it just feels like >> How much does it cost you to go to school? Uh 15 the max. 15,000.

>> Okay. And can you work while you're doing that?

>> I'm going to work part-time. Yeah. Uh my wife works full-time right now. She makes $23 an hour.

>> Uh $23 an hour.

>> She just got the job. I don't know what that >> that's not much. And so um you What are

you going to be making part-time?

>> That I I haven't looked into that. I just got this email about a week ago and it we've just been boggling our minds on this. What would happen if you went to work for an electrician's company and they paid for you to go to school while you worked for them?

>> Uh there is there is an opportunity for that. Uh that's but they're on a wait list too. I don't know how long that would be. >> I don't know where all these weight lists come from.

We have a shortage of trades everywhere in America. So I don't know whether you're trying to do a union deal and that's where your weight list is coming from. If you do, then bypass the union and just go become an electrician, son. Uh and let somebody pay you while you're doing it.

But um I think you need to pursue it but in a smarter way than you're outlining right now. >> Yeah.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem. It's a behavior problem.

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to find the CPAs, the enrolled agents who have been vetted by the Ramsey team and are Ramsey trusted. Claire is in

Salt Lake City. Hi Claire, what's up?

>> Hi. Thank you for accepting my call. Um,

so me and my husband kind of got ourselves into a situation with a vehicle. We bought it when we were living with my mom and we thought we could afford it and now the payment is

ridiculous and we just don't know what to do about it.

>> How much is the payment?

>> It's $1,300 a month.

>> How long you've been married?

>> Um, a year.

>> Okay. $1,300 a month.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Every time it pulls, I want to cry.

>> Yeah. >> And what's the uh what's the truck what's owed on it in total?

>> We owe I want to say 52

or 58 somewhere around there.

>> Mhm. Okay. First thing you need to do is call who who's the truck financed with?

>> I honestly I don't remember.

>> Okay. call them today and find out what

the payoff is if you pay it off this month.

>> Okay. >> I think we checked it the other day and I think they said it was like 56.

>> Okay. That's that's what I was asking you what you owed on the truck.

>> Oh, yeah. >> And you weren't sure. So, you're sure you checked it the other day?

>> Yeah, we I checked it this month.

>> Okay. 56,000. Do you have any idea what the truck is worth?

>> Yeah, I checked today. It's worth like 34. >> According to who?

Kelly Blue Book >> on private sale. Trade in or what?

>> Private sale.

>> Golly, when did he get the truck?

>> How long ago? >> The truck two years ago, I want to say >> Did you have a car that was upside down and you rolled the upside down amount into this deal?

>> No, we bought when it was really high.

We bought the truck for like I don't even remember. >> What's your interest rate? That

ridiculous. I think it's 17%.

>> Okay, your 56 is not your payoff. That's not the right number. That's the balance. That's not the payoff cuz you have a a subprime loan and they're giving you the total of all your payments left. >> You're not that far upside down on this truck. >> Okay. >> Be more what? Like what?

>> What I want to know is what the payoff is today, not what the balance is today.

When you have a ripoff subprime loan, they book the loan as the total of all remaining payments. That is not your payoff. Your payoff is not the total of all the payments because it doesn't include all that interest.

>> So, your payoff is probably going to be

45. You're probably 10 in the hole, give or take. Now, what's your household income? Our

household income is I'm sorry I'm trying

to think like

56 a month.

>> Okay. And what do you make?

>> I make I'm at $20 $19 an hour.

>> And what does he what does he make?

>> He's at 2670.

>> Okay. So, so you guys bring home $5,600

that hits your account after taxes?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> All right. And um you're working 40 hours.

>> Yeah, he works overtime though.

>> Okay. In addition to that. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> All right.

Okay. And I'm assuming you have no money saved.

>> We So, we've been working on the babys.

We have $1,000 saved. >> That's good. >> And we've been paying off >> other debts. He just got a big bonus.

So, we paid off a bunch of our credit cards. >> How much was that bonus?

>> It was like $3,000.

>> Good. Okay. Do you have a tax return coming or do you know?

>> I don't have a very big tax. I have like $100 coming for my tax return and he has maybe a,000. >> Okay. All right. Cuz I you desperately

need to get rid of this truck.

Completely get rid of it. And you're going to have to pay the difference to do that. There's a couple of ways to do that. want to save up, let's say your 10,000 in the hole, as an example, you'd have to have the $10,000 to put with the 34 to get the thing paid off and get rid of it. The second thing you can do is you could finance that $10,000.

>> Okay. Um I'm worried though because we live in a camp trailer and so we need the trucks to pull the camp trailer when we >> sell it all and move into an apartment.

This is killing you.

You can't keep this ridiculous butt truck and have some irrationalized reason for doing it and live in a camper.

You're dying over here.

You got sell the camper, too. What's the camper worth?

>> The camper is worth I just looked at it.

It was It's worth 54,000.

>> And what do you owe on it?

>> We just bought it out of a apartment.

>> Oh my god.

And so you financed it, of course.

>> Yes. >> And you owe $54,000 on a camper.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We owe 54.

>> Okay. >> We're going to sell everything. Claire.

>> Yeah. If If I woke up in your shoes, I would sell everything in sight and I would clean up this mess. And it's going to take you a year to clean up this mess. Renting a little one-bedroom apartment. And you're going to work like crazy people all the time. and you're going to have no life and it's going to take you a while cuz you've made some really, really bad financial decisions.

This truck and this camper are the top of the list and you've got to get this off of you. 5 years from now, you're going to have two pieces of junk and still owe 40 grand.

>> Okay? >> And you still be living in a dad gum camper.

This is not a good long-term life plan.

So, >> no. So, the plan was we bought the camper because we're fixing up my dad's old house that he gave to us.

>> And then you're going to sell the camper at a loss now.

>> Yeah. >> So, you should have moved in an apartment while you're fixing up the old house instead of buying $54,000 or something that's going down in value like the toilet.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, that's the plan that Yeah. So, and now you're fixing up the house with money you don't have.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. How much you putting into this house?

Well, so my dad said he would pay for most of it. Um, we haven't put anything

into it yet. >> Good. Is he living there now? >> My husband's doing >> No, he has his own house.

>> Okay. >> My husband work on the house himself.

>> Is the house going to be put in your name or is it in your name? >> Yes.

>> Already?

>> It's not in our name yet, which is why we haven't put any money in it. >> Okay. Yeah. Don't Don't put money and effort into it until it's in your name.

And you've got to you've got to start undoing some of these things. So, hun, you got y'all got a mess and I'm scared for you. So, um, but you've got to re

back up and rethink how these stories end before you enter into the story. And

so, we need to begin with the end in mind, as Steven Cvy said in the seven habits of highly effective people. And you don't buy a $54,000 camper to sleep in that's going to be worth 30 by the time you have get ready to sell it a year from now in order to fix up a house. You could have used that money to fix up the house. And so, um, you you

don't you got to quit buying things that go backward on big payments. And, um, it

it sounds like you're sacrificing in your head, but you're not sacrificing.

You made a mistake is what you did. So, you guys have got to get rid of this crap. And you know, if you can get that

house barely habitable and move into it,

>> that's what I was going to say. That's that's a that's a bright spot in the story. >> Yeah.

Okay, folks. A general rule of thumb is this. Um, not just for her, but for all

of us. If you want to be poor, here's

the formula. Buy a lot of stuff that has

wheels and motors on payments.

Boats, seedos,

four-wheelers, motorcycles, cars, trucks, trucks, trucks,

lawnmowers.

Buy a lot of stuff with motors and wheels and put payments on it and you

will be poor.

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Might not be in all states. >> Today's question comes from Lauren in Maryland. She said, "I'm a married woman in my 50s with $25,000 in debt that my

husband doesn't know about. I started a part-time job and I'm slowly paying it off. I grew up in a middle-ass family and my mother was always trying to save a dollar, which drove me crazy. My husband is a good man who makes about $175,000 a year.

We don't have a mortgage and have about $1.5 million in retirement. We have a healthy retirement investments and our parents have set up 529s for our children, so college is set. I like to buy nice things for myself, but I feel terrible about the way I've handled my finances.

Lauren? Um, well, to answer your question bluntly, yeah, I would come clean and and tell him about the debt.

Not only can you guys get this cleaned up together, but also carrying around a secret like that and functioning at that

level in your marriage is going to erode not only your marriage, but also you.

Um, you can't you can't carry that stuff. I mean, secrets is what erodess trust in a marriage. And so, you carrying that is not being a person of

integrity, being fully honest. And so that's going to be um that's going to be a hard a very hard conversation. You

know, people that deal with with financial infidelity. And thankfully you guys have the sounds like the margin that you're going to be able to take care of it. But man, people that get stuck with this stuff, it it it does feel like a level of betrayal sometimes

at the same level as actual infidelity going on in a marriage. Um, so I'm not

saying it's going to be easy, Lauren, but >> I kind I kind husband to be pissed cuz you lied to him.

>> So I think that, you know, I like nice things, so I lied to you. I I don't think that's okay.

>> And um and it's not okay. And and I

think you expect him to be pissed and and he should be not because of the money, but because of the deception and the lying.

And that's that's that's some serious stuff in your relationship. So yeah, you need to come clean. yesterday. Deal with whatever the consequences are. It may put you on the marriage counselor's office, which would be okay with me. Um,

then the second thing is is that you can afford nice things.

>> Yeah. >> But you can't afford to do it on a under the table. Hide the Target bags under the bed. That's not That's not funny.

This is a grown woman and you're 50 freaking years old. It's time to act like it. So yeah, you got you need to um you and your husband need to sit down and have an adequate budget for you to buy some nice things. And part of it was you grew up in a tight household where they didn't have any money. And so your husband makes $175,000 a year. You want to have a nice dress. That's okay. I want 14 nice dresses. No. Then that's something wrong with you.

>> Well, that's what I was going to say at that point. Yes. where she is. I'm like, there's there's stuff inside of you, Lauren, that's coming out sideways in the form of money.

>> Y >> for some people, it's other things that they sit there and medicate with, but some people it is it's the spending, it's the money. And so figuring out what that is for you, for yourself to get healthy is going to be a gift later on to your marriage. But yeah. >> Yeah.

You know, so we can afford to do a lot of things that we choose not to do because in our minds, they're ridiculous. But she and I, Sharon and I choose to do that together.

I don't care what they think. It's not their money. And so we just buy that because we want to and we have the money. Shut up. And so you can do that,

but you're in agreement on that amount.

And so u my wife wants to do such and such in the redecorating which is a constant budget line item. And so, uh,

you know that, but at least we know what it is and we're doing it together and it's a reasonable percentage of our world and it doesn't mess up everything else and she gets to enjoy that thing that I don't even understand. And so, um, that's okay. I can do that as a husband, she can do that as a wife, but we can be on the same page and it's a line item in our overall plan and there's room for it. And I think that's the case here.

for you.

but not by hiding them. So yeah, you need to come clean today. Uh you need to expect him to be not about the money but

about the lying for him to be really pissed. I don't know of anybody that wouldn't be. Um and and so uh you know

and you've broken trust and it may take a little while to rebuild that trust and it may take some time in a marriage counselor's office and that's okay.

>> I wouldn't mind that for y'all at all because there's a lot of stuff going on here that needs to be fixed. But >> yeah, but the way you all have been handling money as a couple has not allowed you the freedom >> to speak up and say I want to buy something. >> Yeah. And it's either that you have an issue, Lauren, that you have to live below your means and you don't like that and so you go off and do whatever you want and go charge it on credit cards.

That's your issue. But then on the flip side, he could be he could be kind of a jerk and like shaming you over every purchase. You're like, I don't want to deal with that. I'll just come over here and do my own thing, too. Right. Which is an issue, too. So, >> yeah. But the way you're handling money as a couple has partly led to this.

Either you're not speaking up or him putting his thumb on it or some of both >> somewhere in there. Taylor is in New

York City. Hi, Taylor. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thanks for taking my call. I have a quick question that I've gotten a lot of differing opinions on. Um, but basically, should I stop contributing to my 401k while I'm paying off my debt?

>> If you're working the Ramsay baby steps, there's not varying opinions. There's only one.

There's only one way to work the Ramsay baby steps. Baby step one is save $1,000. Two is temporarily stop all

investing and completely focus on your debt snowball, paying minimum payments on everything but the little one and attacking the little one with a vengeance. That is blasphemy for those

of us that know how to do math and we see that we're losing that compound interest and maybe missing out on a company match even for a short period of time. It's very hard for those of us like me that are nerds to do that. But we have found that the power of focus and complete commitment to becoming debtree by both of you, you and your husband to the point that we're stopping the 401k completely. We're stopping saving completely temporarily. That

focus, that level of intensity is what causes people to complete their get out of debt journey. Those that play footsy with it and try to do three things at once don't pull it off. ish is a wish.

>> All right. Thank you.

>> Okay. So, I don't know where you're getting varying opinions, but they're not from our materials.

>> No, no. Just people in my life who I'm like trying to figure it out.

>> Yeah. Broke broke people have a lot of opinions about money.

>> Yeah.

Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

>> Thank you for calling.

It's hard. I think that's probably I think >> if your broke friends are making fun of your financial plan, you're right on track. >> You're doing good. >> If your if your fat friends are making fun of your diet, you're right on track.

I mean, come on. This is this you got to

stop. Think about where you're getting your information. If you're getting your your financial information off of Tik Tok, you're screwed.

>> Yeah. You know, but I will say the investing side, there are a lot of smart people that just say, "Hey, invest regard like they wouldn't say to stop it." Like we do. Yeah, nobody does.

We're the only ones. >> Yes, that's right. I know. But I and I do think that's one of the hardest parts of baby step two for people is to go in and actually pause the 401k. But there's a part of that desperation that's so emotional that actually drives Yep.

>> getting through it. Yep. >> And so that's for a lot of people that I'm missing out on the match. I'm pissed that I'm missing out missing out on some compound interest. So I'm going to drive through this debt that much faster. But here's the deal. What little bit you lose during that time, you make up for because you've now gotten muscular in

the amount that you can put towards your wealth building. Because your most powerful wealth building tool is not compound interest, it's your income.

>> And your income drives the engine of compound interest. And when you give all your income to camper payments, you can't win. >> I know. Well, and the 15% baby step four makes up for all of that. What you're saying, a lot of people just go up to their company match and that's all they do for retirement. Well, you're 3% their whole life. >> That's right. That's right. So, the 50% you'll be fine. You'll be fine, Taylor. I promise. >> You're going to You're going to be a multi-millionaire if you follow these steps exactly.

Heat. Heat.

Mandy is in Texas. Hi, Mandy. How are you? >> I'm doing well, thank you. I'm excited I get to talk to you today. >> You, too. How can we help?

>> I'm 63 and my husband is almost 66. I

retired from teaching two years ago and my husband is semi-retired in the cattle business. We both chose to uh start

social security at 62 and we have been debtree for many years but over the years we have always avoided um investing money in the stock market. We thought it was too risky so we put it in

CDs instead. And currently we have about

$765,000 in CDs ra ranging from 4% to 5%. Mhm.

>> And then two years ago, I ran across your show and learned a lot that I wish I knew a long time ago.

And um so a year and a half ago, I

decided to take a chance and with the help of of a financial advisor, I had $51,000 in a deferred retirement account and I

invested that in a growth stock mutual fund. Mhm. >> And at the end of last month, the rate of return was about 13%.

>> From 13% from when?

>> From a a year and a half, it it grew

>> in 2025. It grew 13%.

>> Uh that's what it had on the piece of paper. >> Okay. >> So, >> well, the market went up 24%. So, I think you picked a bad fund.

>> Okay. Well, >> but either way, Mandy, you're doing great. >> Anyway, either way, you're doing way you're doing way better than 4%. on the right track. >> Yes. So here here we are. I can see that

even though that might not been the best thing for a financial adviser to do for us, um I can see that growth stock

mutual funds can earn more than CDs because 13% is more than 5%.

>> Exactly. >> Um so but here's the here's my dilemma.

But we're but with us being in our 60s and having miss being in it for the long haul, we are just hesitant to move every cent that we have in those CDs into mutual funds. >> And so we want to move some >> because you like making 40,000 instead of 140,000.

>> I we're just >> Why are you hesitant?

>> Because it's all we have. I know. But I mean,

does that I mean, because you think you're going to lose it all.

>> Um I'm a I think I might need some of

it. >> Well, you can just get it out.

>> Okay. >> If you take it out of the CD, you can take it out of a mutual fund.

>> Okay. All right.

>> It's not trapped. Deferred comp is trapped, but mutual funds are not trapped. >> Okay. So, in this stage of the game, you

would suggest that we take it all out of our CDs. Are you living off of the money

from the CDs?

>> No. No, we're not. >> You're not touching it?

>> No, I haven't touched it. >> So, what would you want to take it out for?

>> Well, just in case with healthwise, we

>> Oh, so if we had a health event, we might need 100 grand.

>> Well, for maybe for nursing home or I

don't know where my kids might put me, >> but man, just like I need some money.

>> Okay. Well, I mean, so what you need to do is you're dealing with the emotion,

but what we need to do is put the reality of how a mutual fund works against that emotion and say, how does

this keep me from touch scratching that itch? Okay. So if so, for instance, if

the emotion is I'm going to lose everything, the only way a mutual fund would go completely broke is if 90 to 200 of America's top companies all became worth zero, >> which means that America is over.

>> Mhm. >> That's never happened in the history of America. The entire economy has collapsed to zero if that happens.

Because what we're saying here is General Motors, Alcoa, >> uh, all the banks, >> all the Home Depot, Apple, Tesla,

everything is worth zero.

>> Mhm. >> And then your 700 would be worth zero.

So that's illogical.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Now, do they go down sometimes?

Yes, it goes down sometimes, >> but it goes up more than it goes down, >> right? >> And so, let me just make you cry. Are you ready? >> Sure. In 2024, the market went up 26%.

In 2025, it went up 23%.

>> That means in those two years alone, you lost $400,000.

>> Your 700 would be 1.1.

>> Okay? That's what this fear has cost you. So, what I'm I'm saying that not to say you need to go do this because I said do it, but to say you need to go learn about this. You and your husband need to sit down with a Smart Vest Pro.

Go to ramiesolutions.com.

They have the heart of a teacher. Tell them I don't understand anything. You're going to have to use words that I understand. And you're going to have to teach me how these mutual funds work or I'm not putting a dime in them. And you're going to have to make me feel okay. If I need the money, I can get it.

And you're going to have to make me feel okay by showing me charts and graphs of the last hundred years that I'm not going to lose my money.

>> Right? >> You got to learn. This is learning. This is knowledge. >> Right? >> It's I've never ridden a bike. So riding a bike is scary.

>> But now once I've learned to ride a bike, then riding a bike is not scary anymore.

>> You've done a lot of things in your life that were scary before you learned how to do them, but you learned how to do them anyway. The time you learned to drive a car, the time you married that man and didn't know what that was going to be like, all that stuff, right? >> Uhhuh. Right.

You're right. >> But you've learned about it and you've got past the fear and it's been a blessing >> with the knowledge. And so sit down with a smart investor pro and learn, learn, learn, learn, learn. And he needs to go too.

>> Right. Okay.

>> Yeah. That's the numbers you're missing out on. So, I want you to get and if you decide, hey, we're going to put a hundred a year in for the next seven years. We're going to wade in.

>> Okay. >> Instead of jump in, that's okay.

>> Yeah. >> You put 50 in already and you don't regret that. >> No, I don't regret that at all. But you and you guys are young enough, Mandy, to that you're going to have years decades still. >> Yeah. There's a lot a lot of time.

>> There's a million and a half dollar.

you're not 92 calling us and you're scared of the market. At that point, we'd say, "Sleep well, have peace, and enjoy your life." But you're you're young, you know, 60 >> 60 63 >> younger than me. >> 63. >> So, yeah.

Yeah. The the So, Rachel, the thing about investing for anybody, including me, including you, I is you have to

learn about it and then that keeps you from freaking out. So when uh >> well like yesterday the market dove Yep.

>> when they bombed Iran, >> the market's back >> 3 days later.

>> Okay. Those that get hurt on a roller coaster are those that jump off in the middle of the ride. So you know, and then there's going to happen there's going to be something else that happens and this year probably won't be as good as the last two years. >> I don't I am not projecting nor am I saying that mutual funds are going to produce 23 and 26%. I don't that is not

realistic. Those are two unusually good

years. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Uh but I think we're going to make more than CD rates. And you have almost every year since the stock market's been there, >> it's almost always done better than CD rates. >> I do remember 1982 CDs were 12%.

And the stock market because interest rates were 17% on houses.

>> Oh yeah. >> And CDs were 12%. And I remember my grandpa having 12% CD money market rates

and I'm like, "Oh my gosh." But that was

1982 in a highly unusual Jimmy Carter mess of the economy that we were in >> with interest rates of of real estate being we complain at our 6%. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So that's but but most of my life,

most of my working life, 50 years, CD

rates have been, you know, two to 5%.

Right in there. And the stock market has been 10 to 15%. On your rates of return,

but I don't get a guarantee. No, you have a guarantee you're going to make less money. That's your guarantee. When you're in a CD, you got two guarantees.

You're not going to lose your money and you're going to make less money. I'm guaranteeing you that's going to happen.

>> Barely keeps up with inflation at that point. >> Just barely. Barely, if at all.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Michael is in Seattle.

Hey, Michael. How are you?

>> Hello. How are we doing? It's a blessing to be here. >> Honored to have you. How can we help, sir? Um, yeah. So, I'm kind of kind of at a a

force in my life here, and I'm looking for some advice on what you guys would do if you're in my situation. Currently, um, I'm on a day-to-day layoff, uh, with my company. Um, they're currently trying to get rid of about 40,000 of their workers. Um, so they're offering severance packages. Um, and where I'm stuck is do I wait the four to five years for potentially get full-time work or do I take the severance package and attempt to start an entrepreneurship as far as either um buying a house outright

and uh collecting that cash flow and starting my own company um or should I invest that into like stock markets, dividends, um that kind of mutual fund.

Um, so I'm just I'm just looking for some advice on on what you guys would do in my my shoes and where you would go.

>> Okay. So, it's fair to say the company you work for is not financially healthy if they're laying off 40,000 people, right?

>> Um, >> so the future there is not very bright.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I've been there since for eight years since I was 18, a single father of four. So, it's it's it's hard to kind of step out onto that limb.

>> Yeah. I don't care. They're pushing you out on the limb cuz they're not doing well. So, four to five years from now is not looking bright.

>> I'm I'm getting about a day or two per week. Um, >> are you hearing me? Stop. Stop. Stop. I don't feel like you're listening to me.

Okay. I'm saying your company sucks, so

the future there sucks. Do you agree with that?

>> I agree. It's It's hard to pat, you know, give up on that 100,000 a year.

Well, I know. But you're going to have to give up on it because they don't want you there anymore,

>> right? >> Yeah, I hear you. There's a few guys that are getting ready to retire. So,

I'm >> So, you're not laid off, Michael. You're just saying there's layoffs happening.

>> Um, >> but they're offering you they're offering you a severance package to leave.

>> That's correct. They're off.

>> How much? Um, it's 150,000. After Uncle Sam takes his percentage, it'll probably be around 100 grand. >> And you make 100 grand.

>> Um, potentially. Yes.

>> So, potentially. Do you make 100 grand or not? >> I'm at 70,000 a year.

>> Okay. You make 70,000 and they're offering you a h 100red to go away.

>> Correct. Okay. All right. That that's our reality. Okay. Let's deal with reality. And 100,000 is not enough to buy real estate.

realistically, okay? You're going to end up with a bunch of real estate debt. So, we're not going to do that with it. So, if you leave this company making $70,000 a year and you put $100,000 in your pocket, what would you go do for a living?

Um, as of right now, we've got a family business going. Um, so I'd probably push

into that for a little bit. Um, just kind of weighing my options. um

>> out of necessity of getting an income or because you enjoy the family business and you want to >> make that a part of your next career step?

>> Yeah, I enjoy but as of right now it is kind of a necessity with uh

>> what are you doing right now? What's your job?

>> Um I deliver um so I drive in the the commerce. I'm I'm a full-time package driver. >> Oh, >> okay. So, uh what who you who's the

family business? your parents?

>> Yeah, I'm I'm co-owner. So, my my parents, my sister and I are both uh the owners of the company. >> Do you make an income from that?

>> I do. Yeah. >> How much do you make of that?

>> Um I'm only going and helping them about once a week. So, roughly just couple

hundred bucks a week or a month.

>> Oh, just for what you're being paid, not as you're not getting the bottom line or anything? No, we we started it about a

year and a half. >> How old are you, sir? >> Okay. >> 26. >> Okay. Let's pretend that you were 26 and could do anything you wanted to do in this world.

>> Mhm. >> And you weren't allowed to do the family business and you weren't allowed to stay in the job you're in. And you could be whoever you wanted to be. What would you go do?

>> That That's a fair question, sir. Um, >> that's what you need to >> 18. All all I've known is is being a father and providing. So, it's >> all all you've known is landing in things by default rather than by plan.

>> Oh, there's a job over there. I can throw packages and I can make 78 years.

You did it for 8 years and I could feed and I could feed my family. But you did not sign up for that because it was the joy of your life. >> You signed up for that as a provider, as a father, as a husband, and a good man and a hardworking guy. But you didn't sign up for that and say, "This is the this is going to give my life meaning.

I'm going to make it big. I'm going to go make 700,000 a year doing this. You didn't have a a a set out to live a dream. You backed into something because you had to have a job to eat. And you're a good man and you're not afraid of work. Okay? So, I'm challenging you to take a step up from that. This is your opportunity to reset and land in

something that makes 200 grand a year.

And maybe you have to take three classes to learn how to do it. I don't know what it is. Or you start your own thing with

some of that hundred grand. or you take a class with some of that hundred grand, but this is your opportunity to say, "Not just because something's convenient.

I'm not going to do it because it's convenient." The family business is just convenient. It's you backing into something else instead of walking head first into something else. >> Yeah. Hold on the line, Michael. Christian will pick up and we'll give you Ken's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do U, because there's a great assessment in there just to kind of get those wheels turning for you.

>> Yeah. >> But this is a great >> guy. I want you to dream though. And I would not invest or do anything with this 100 grand right now. I would just put it in a high yield sit. >> I wouldn't even take I wouldn't even take the package right now.

>> I'd figure out what I'm going to do first and then I take the package >> cuz they're letting him stay and they're going to keep offering the package for a while. >> So I'm going to I'm I'm going to take the next six months and do Ken's assessment. I'm going to decide what I'm going to be and I'm going to start taking steps into that thing that I have always wanted to do X and now I'm going to go be one of those.

severance package and then use the severance package to go live your dream but no I would not work at the family business and no I would not stay at this company that wants you to leave but I would for a little while while I get reset and figure out what my dream is and what it has to happen for me to live that dream you looking at buying real estate or dividend stock that's just you looking at crap on the internet looking for something to do >> well and to earn some money. I mean, you get you get you get your year's worth of salary or more handed in your lap to someone like him and he's like, "Holy crap, how could I make this money work for me?" Yeah.

>> Which is a fair question, but that's the wrong way to go about it right now until you have a steady income. Then you could take that and invest that later. >> Exactly. >> But I would be having a monthly income first.

>> This 100 grand is not going to make your life.

>> You're the secret sauce for your life.

That's the thing. So hang on. Christian will pick up. will get you a copy of that.

Finding the work you're wired to do. Take that assessment, read that book carefully. Uh read or listen to anything Ken Coleman says and he'll get you on the right track doing all this stuff. Um he's one of the Ramsey personalities for those of you that don't know and uh but specializes in this area of living your dreams and doing >> Okay.

Well, here's a question. They haven't let him go yet. No. >> Sit there for a little while.

>> But but what if he's loving it and he starts making more? Can would you not stay at a company that's laying off 40,000? No.

>> Yeah, but what if the 40 laying off the 40,000 props them up for a little bit longer? >> It props them up for a little while longer. But I'm not I'm not hanging around a place that's going down the toilet.

Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseyolutions.com/realestate.

If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by

using Every Dollar. Cuz every dollar will guide you not only in a budget, but right through the baby steps. Doing this the Ramsay way. The plan is built into it. You track your progress. You get personalized recommendations, coaching for your particular situation. You free

up more money. You work the plan even faster. You're working it together with your spouse. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step. Do this, do this, do this, and then holding you accountable. Why didn't you do it? Start Every Dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Alyssa

is in Montana. Hi, Alyssa. How are you?

>> Hi. Um, thanks for taking my call. It's an honor to talk with you guys.

>> You too. >> Um yeah, so I my husband and I are um

Big Day Ramsey followers. I'm not sure what step we are in. Maybe babys five.

Um and we're trying to make the decision

if I can be a stay-at-home mom.

>> Cool. I love it. >> It's a Yeah, it's really an emotional decision and we're both analytical.

>> So well, let's do some let's do some analytics on the emotions. What do you what do you make?

>> Um, so I'm working right now. Um, we have one kiddo that goes to daycare. I

make 85 a year.

>> What does your husband make a year?

>> 116. >> 160.

>> 116. >> 116.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. And so what is your take-home pay?

>> Um, yours on the 85?

>> 46. >> Okay. 100 a month.

Is that right?

>> Uh like 46 4,600 a month. Yes.

>> Okay. You got a lot coming out of that.

>> Yeah. >> What's coming out of that?

>> Retirement um and just other taxes. I

don't have a lot coming out of mine.

>> Yeah, you do.

>> 4600 is only 48,000. You said you make for 85.

>> Yeah, >> there's a bunch coming out. Something's coming out of that check. What's coming out of it? >> I don't know. Maybe federal taxes.

>> It's not federal taxes. It's not It's too much for that. How much are you putting in your retirement?

>> Um, just up to the match, which is like 5%. >> Okay. 5%. Are you putting Are you paying the family's healthcare out of yours?

>> No, it's out of his. >> H. >> Are you getting a tax refund, Alyssa?

>> No. I We're not getting a refund for 25.

>> Okay. Well, there's I'm trying to help

with this, but so, okay, let's use the 4600. Uh, even though it's wrong and

some something's wrong with it, but anyway, the your daycare is how much?

>> 800. >> Okay. All right. So, after daycare, which you would not have if you were at home, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, 46 - 800 puts me at uh 3,800.

Does that sound right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. If you take $3,800 and put it in

the bank out of your budget for the next three months, that would mean you were living on your husband's income.

>> Mhm.

We're we're about there. We typically have about 4,000 >> in excess each month.

>> Okay. >> Oh, good. >> Then you can then you can do it.

>> You won't have any access, though, >> right? And that's kind of the scary part. Um he we just bought a house and

it's our first home and it's like $3,000

a month in all expenses for the house and so it just feels like like that's >> Did you guys do the math on both incomes when you bought the home? I mean obviously >> No, we tried to make it on just one. >> Oh, you did? Okay. >> Yeah, >> because he brings home how much?

>> Seven. Yeah. 40%.

>> Yeah. Your house is an awful your house is a big chunk of his income.

>> Really big, >> right? Yeah, it is.

>> And so that's going to be a you're going to be tight on the house. So what is the prognosis on him getting raises?

>> I think really good. Um he just started there and it's he kind of had to take a step down when he started there, but um

I think as soon as he gets like a year under his belt there, he can >> move up. So, I don't think we're like in this situation for a long time, but it feels like we're going to go back to beans and rice. >> How much paying off? You probably are.

You probably are for a year uh until his

income comes up. You don't have any Do you have an emergency fund in place?

>> Yeah. You said you're on baby step five.

>> I'm going to do it.

>> If I'm you, I'm coming home.

>> That's your desire. I'm taking it or you wouldn't ask the question, right?

>> Well, we have our second is coming in the summer. >> Oh, yeah. So that's >> I just would you stay home after would you work till the summer work for the next few months? Okay. Well, I would do that a list and I would just stack some some extra cash in another fund.

>> Yeah. >> Just to have on the side just to give you some peace of mind >> because it's going to be tight. >> Yeah. >> The first year of you being at home is going to be tight.

>> But you're analytical enough. You know your numbers. We can tell cuz we do budgets for a living. When we're asking people their numbers, they don't know their numbers.

That tells me they're going to be in trouble. But you know every number. You've got it all dialed in. The only number you didn't know is why your take-home pay is so low.

But other than that, uh you know every number I've asked you for. And you So you and it sounds like the two of you are talking about this together. He knows the numbers.

stack all that cash, you have proven that we can live on his income because we won't have the daycare.

>> Yeah. And you're going to have other savings being at home. >> Uh car gas, dry cleaning on the clothing that you don't wear to work anymore. Uh you know, you're now cooking from scratch, which is less expensive than a convenience-based food cuz you're working and tired. And you're not going to eat out as much cuz you're not working and tired. And so there's going to be a lot of other potential places you save in the budget. >> Two babies. Two babies. You'll be tired.

But >> yeah, will be your friend. Yes.

>> Yeah. But but being at home, being at home is what you're after. And you know, this is the cost of being at home. We're going to be a home economist.

>> Mhm. >> Make the economy of the home be more functional than it is today. And >> yeah, and and here's the thing, Alyssa, you guys made such great decisions up until this point doing the baby steps that that you're a you know what I mean, that you even have the choice, which is just wonderful. And so when John Deloney always talks about solving for peace, like as a mom, as I hear you, and your desire to do that, you're going to have you're going to have peace.

It's where you want to be. You want to be home with those babies. And so there's something that you can't put a price on that, right? And for a season, it's going to be tight.

>> Sometimes people when people hear you say, "Don't put a price on. It means you can do whatever you want to do." No, that's you can't do whatever you want to do. But you guys can afford to do that.

>> No. Well, no. But I would say the other way. If you can't do it and you still choose to, then you are going to be stressed and there is not going to be peace.

So no, there is a a real peace that you have created, >> right? But you're going to have to be grown-ups with the money. You can't just say, "Oh, I just choose to be at home and we're going to be responsible." But you're not that girl. You're not that girl.

>> And it does not create peace. >> Yeah. And she's not she's she's not that person.

>> Yeah. I would quit after the new baby comes. I agree with you. I'm I'm in. And

um because it's your goal and you've and you've earned the right to do your goal to Rachel's point. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Very well done. That's cool. You know, I I remember the first time distinctly that I took a call and the lady we

figured out that with daycare and she

wasn't making a lot of money. Alyssa was making a lot of money. >> Mhm. But with daycare and um whatever

else it came down to they had a a $400

payment on their van.

>> Mhm.

>> And that was actually what she was netting.

So she was working to pay for the van.

>> And it was like this light bulb comes on while we're talking to her.

>> Sell the van and quit your job.

>> Don't work for a van when you want to be there with your kids. Yeah.

>> And we've we've made that trade subconsciously accidentally Americans have for decades now.

>> Mhm. >> And >> well, daycare with two kids, right, is going to be you just double it. You know what I mean? So like it does start to dwindle to your point of the happening.

>> It's crazy.

>> Yeah. And so it's it makes it more and more and more reasonable to be at home the more expensive that stuff gets.

>> Mhm. >> And then go, what is it we're net net working for? Well, get rid of that debt.

You can do it. And that's what they have done before today. They got rid of the debt before she even made the call cuz they're at baby step five.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it, like our Every Dollar Budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

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In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debtree stage, Steve and Kathy are with

us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Hi. >> Hi. We are better than we deserve.

>> I love it. Where do y'all live?

>> Uh we are in Boisee, Idaho. >> Oh, I love it. That's a great town.

>> Well, welcome to Nashville all the way across the continent to do a debtree scream. >> All right. And how much have you guys paid off? >> We paid off $580,000.

>> Yay. And how long did that take?

>> Uh 12 years. >> Good for you. Gosh. >> And your range of income during that time? >> Uh we started at about a h 100,000 and uh last year we made $450,000.

>> Wow. What do y'all do for a living?

>> Uh I'm an engineering manager.

>> Good for you. >> Yeah. >> Awesome. And I do music at my church

part time. >> Very good.

>> What was the 580,000? What kind of debt?

>> It was our mortgage. >> Yeah. HEY, LOOK AT IT. WEIRD people

>> paid off the house. >> Yeah. >> So, what's this house in boyisey worth?

>> Uh, it's worth about 1.2 million.

>> All right. So, we're millionaires on the house alone. >> Look at it. >> Look at you. What a great house.

>> Amazing. Oh, you guys, congratulations.

>> Way to go, man. That's got to feel amazing. >> It feels amazing. It's been a a long road. Diligence and a lot of patience, but yeah, we made it. >> It sounds like the majority of those years the income was at the lower end of that range. Yeah. >> And then it just swooped up lightly.

>> It it actually slowly went up.

>> Oh, slowly. Steadily. >> It was steadily. Uh, >> did you all have consumer debt 12 years ago that you paid off first or was it really just working at the house? >> No, we started uh first we started in in 2010. We actually took FPU for the first time. So, what happened was in 2007, we bought a new house. >> Uh, we had kids and then um we took FPU in 2010. We paid off all of our consumer debt in 2010 quickly.

>> Um, you know, and you know what happened in 2008? We were way underwater.

>> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. In our house. Terrible. 2013 we refinanced. >> And then uh my dad passed away in 2018.

>> And then my grandparents passed away in 2019 over the course of the next year. So my mom moved up uh to the boyisey area with us. And that's when we built that new house in 2020.

>> Uh and that's with my you know we have a mother-in-law quarters where my mom lives with us. So um we steadily you know we we had made decent money throughout the years. >> You're just working. >> We worked we worked the plan.

We were very diligent. You know, we we went through the baby steps, four, five, and six. >> We put three kids. We have three adult children.

Put them through school. One of them was in the Air Force. >> Wow. >> So, six grandchildren.

>> Oh, look at your family. >> You guys don't look old enough to have six grandkids. >> I know. >> Oh my gosh.

Wow. >> So, that's that's our why right there is is that that group. >> Change the family tree. >> Exactly.

>> Yes. Oh, I love it. And these two sitting over here >> are the ones that started all this for us. >> Our mentors came with us.

They met us out here. Um they joined us because the they put us through FPU. Jim and Debbie, our friends Jim and Debbie, uh they did the first FPU at at at our church. Um they've been kind of inspirational for us.

I've always want I want to be Jim when I grow up. So >> Amen. >> It's amazing. >> Well, I'm glad they got to come with you.

That's so neat. >> A lot of fun. >> And they get to celebrate your success, too. And so, how much have you guys got in your nest egg these days?

>> All right. So, you're bumping 3 million now. Way to go. I'm so proud of y'all.

>> Well done, you guys. It's not It sounds weird to say it out loud, doesn't it? >> It does. It doesn't feel like it.

>> It doesn't. It It was actually kind of strange. I was laughing when we first when we went to the bank to pay off the house. Uh >> it was a little bit surreal. I was expecting, you know, streamers and balloons.

>> No, >> the bank was not that happy.

>> You say that a lot. Is that funny? It's like >> That was kind of a downer. It's kind of antilimactic, but yeah, it was a lot of fun. >> If we ever get a bank that celebrates when you pay off your house, we have a new bank. >> Exactly. For sure. >> That's so cool, y'all. Way to go. Yeah.

>> How's it feel to be completely free after all these years? >> Yeah, it's amazing. >> It does feel amazing. >> We, you know, we know we can >> be more generous. We really want to be able to exercise that generosity muscle, uh, you know, and help as many people as we can. That's kind of been a big part of our lives throughout the years. So, we can we can continue to do more.

>> And also helping our grandkids go to school. >> Amen. >> Oh, yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. What have your grown kids said as you guys have been doing this journey? Have they >> they're proud of us? They I mean they're all three of our adult children they're debtfree. >> Yeah. They we made them take the class.

>> They they took FPU as they were growing up through high school >> and he's coordinating it. >> Yeah. I've been I've been coordinating FPU since 2013. >> Wow. Thank you. Oh my god.

>> It's a pleasure. We actually just started a I do it every spring and we just started this last week. So >> Oh wow. Okay. So the class will get to see your debtree screen >> I guess. So that's good.

>> Yeah. That's surreal. >> Hey my my FPU coordinator house. I don't

know about you, but I'm just saying.

>> Yeah. >> So, uh, way back in the day when you first went in the class, do you remember those emotions of like, >> I I wonder if this whole thing's a con.

I wonder if somebody didn't want to go or >> No, we both wanted to go. Well, maybe free spirit. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, we are the prototypical nerd free spirit couple.

>> I'm really nerdy. I am super nerdy. I, you know, the whole spreadsheet thing. So, I was into it.

I like the plan. I like the process. Yeah. >> Uh, you know, gives me it tells me what to do, you know.

So, >> we had to take it se couple times from them. I was not willing to cut up my Costco. >> That was the only one I was not willing to cut up. >> The Costco credit card.

>> Yes. >> That was going to save you. Yeah, >> I felt like it. I did.

But once we tracked it a whole year, I realized I was spending about 30% more just swiping. >> Oh, wow. And so, I thought, okay, it's on paper.

>> So, it's not theory. This is I'm really doing this. Yeah. Wow.

>> That's an interesting thing. >> And save 30% at Costco. George Camel would be proud of you.

>> Or Kirkland King. He loves it.

>> That's awesome. >> All right. So now you're coordinating classes for over a decade, almost 15

years. >> You uh accumulated a nice net worth, a good income. You're debtree. Your kids are debtree. Your family tree changed.

>> This is a massive transformation.

I mean, because when you started, I assume you didn't have anything.

>> Oh, nothing. We We were living paycheck to paycheck for the longest time. We weren't The budget was huge. We didn't We weren't paying attention really. I mean, it was just kind of Yeah. >> Oh, money comes in, it goes out.

>> You were normal. You were normal. And uh I'm so proud of you. >> What a great transformation. Thank you.

>> God has done a work. So, what do you what do you uh tell people? The key is that couple that comes in that first night and they're kind of looking sideeyed at you and they're like, "Is what is this some kind of cult or what is this deal? this Ramsay guy and and what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is because you guys are I mean you're like poster child.

>> Yeah, for me it's really simple. First is the budget. >> Uh getting it on paper, seeing it, >> you know, you you're telling your money what to do each month. I like you say I've heard you guys say it a million times. You for you to do the budget and you feel like you get a raise immediately. So we immediately had more money because we were paying attention to where it was going. >> And then just intentionality and discipline, >> always being on the same page.

>> That's Yeah. >> Always. We talk about our money a lot.

You know, I every two weeks I'm I'm a nerd. We sent a picture. I have this massive spreadsheet that I do this budget spreadsheet. I'm an engineer.

So, um, every two weeks when we get paid, I go and I do our budget, you know, for the next I have a six I have it laid out for the next six weeks exactly what's going to happen. So, >> even with the house paid off, I know Saturday morning >> he's going to be up there doing it. >> I actually enjoy it. So, >> it's good.

Oh, I love it.

>> Yep. He likes to save. I like to spend.

So Kathy, uh, along this way, he's obviously a, uh, a nerd, a detail guy.

Along this way, how did you manage to keep your voice speaking into that budget?

>> I'm the one he just I like to have fun.

So he makes the money. I make sure that we enjoy it, >> right? Like that was my thing. I always wanted to take the kids camping or I always wanted to do >> So you want to look at the budget and see that in the budget?

>> Yes. I needed it in the budget and he respected that. Yes, you guys wonderful. We would go through the numbers and I would, you know, if we we would go line by line.

I had line items for cash and things that would autopay and for the how much cash we're going to pull out every two weeks.

>> Here's the camping and the Costco line.

>> Yes. >> Yes. >> How much have I got for camping? How much have I got for Costco?

>> But I know for me, the biggest thing is keeping God at the center.

>> And this is why we have what we have because of his blessings. Amen. And so we got to we got to do right by it. I love it.

>> It's a responsibility. >> You have you're you're being a blessing by being here today and sharing your story. It's inspiring. We appreciate you.

You're very very proud of you. Thank you for teaching the class. Thank you for your mentors to for getting you guys in this. They've >> completely I mean all those grandkids, all those people are changed.

>> Sweet. >> Because God's ways of doing things got inserted into your life. >> We really appreciate you guys and all your personality.

I see you guys around. I feel like I know everybody. I see John John Deloney and I feel like we're brothers and you know you guys know who I am but >> you are you are you >> are awesome and we are going to see you on the cruise next year all four of us >> all four of us we're all going all high

>> Stephen Kathy Boy Idaho 580,000 paid off

in the last 12 years that's the last step their house and everything baby steps millionaires count it down let's hear a debtfree scream >> 3 2 fun.

>> We're debtree.

>> WAY TO GO, YOU GUYS. WHAT an awesome

couple. >> It's amazing. >> Very neat.

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scripture of the day, 2 Timothy 2:6. It is the hardworking farmer who ought to have the first share of the crops.

Sandra Day Okconor says, "Do the best you can in every task, no matter how unimportant it may seem at the time. No one learns more about a problem than the person at the bottom." Woo!

This is true. Stephanie is in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Stephanie. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, thank you for taking my call. My husband and I recently had a baby. Um, the last few years I've worked as a travel nurse and because we just had the baby, I took a position um as a staff uh

making three times less than I was making before. So, we're just trying to figure out how to pay off 150,000 without me going back to traveling.

>> What are you making as staff?

Um, I make about 80K a year.

>> What does he make?

>> He makes 82.

>> 82. So, we have 162.

And um, you were you were making bank as a travel nurse, but that's not a good idea with a brand new baby. I agree.

>> Right. We decided to come back home, but it it's it's taken a huge hit um on us financially because I'm so I don't want to say I'm used to the money, but you know. >> But you're used to the money.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's okay. That's a normal thing. I mean, >> 240 versus 80 is different. That's okay to say. Yeah, >> for sure. Big difference.

>> Yep. >> So, um, were you making huge progress when you had the 240?

>> Um, we did make some progress, but not as much as we wanted to. Um, >> what did you do? What were you doing?

Where were you screwing off?

Um, well, I mean, we purchased a house that was a I don't want to say it was a complete fixer upper, but we put aboutund >> You bought a house while you were trying to get out of debt. Well, that doesn't work. >> Yeah. At least we have a house now, though. And we wanted to have the house before we had the baby, so that's kind of what happened. >> Okay.

Well, the reason you haven't gotten out of debt is you put paying off the debt further down your list of priorities.

Yeah, >> that's going to have to change.

And so your priorities don't include eating out anymore.

>> Your priorities don't include going on vacation anymore. Your priorities don't include spending $80,000 fixing fixing up the nursery for a newborn who doesn't even know that stuff's there.

>> Right. >> Gotcha.

>> So the thing is is my husband and I are

actually pretty frugal. >> No, you're not.

I would say we are. >> No, you were making $240,000 a year and you didn't pay off hardly any debt. You're not frugal. >> Yeah. Well, we're trying to be.

>> No, you in your mind you are, but you not not The reality is you spent the money. That's not That's the opposite of frugal.

>> So, you're going to have to get frugal though >> if you want to make progress. >> Could y'all live on one income for two

years? >> Like 80 grand? >> Yeah. >> I mean, that's what we're trying to figure out. We have we consolidated our

loan into $1,000 payment and then our

mortgage is about 2400.

>> So that is our debt period. We have it all together and focused into two bills.

So one is our mortgage and two is our our um personal debt.

>> Okay. Well, if you can, you know, buy food, lights, and water and throw money

at this debt, um 75 a year gets you out

of debt in two years, right?

>> How?

>> Hm.

>> I said, how? >> Well, you make 16.

>> Yeah, but how do we uh how do we do

that? How do we live on one income when when we pay like 2,000 for one debt and

then 2400 for another?

>> Well, I thought you said it's a th00and, but the 2,000 go towards the debt is part of the 75.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So, >> need to get more focused.

>> Yeah. Are you guys on a budget, Stephanie? >> All right. 162

162 minus 75.

>> Okay. I I got you, Dave. Here, you cough. Turn off your mic and cough. Um, Stephanie, are you guys doing a budget? A written budget?

>> We are. And I have it in front of me.

>> You do? Okay. So, where are things that Well, what is left after you pay your mortgage, like all the necessities that you have to have? What is left? How much is left?

>> Um, I I'm looking at the monthly total. Um,

not very much.

Um, we're putting 1,900 into child care

alone.

>> Into what? >> Into child care.

>> Employment. Why are you I thought you Oh. Oh, yeah.

>> For one baby.

>> For one baby. We pay $20 an hour.

>> Is it daycare?

>> No, it's a babysitter. We couldn't find any openings for daycare around us.

That's what we wanted to do, but we were paying for um a babysitter. So, it's 20 bucks an hour. Okay, >> that's average. >> So, so the I mean the reality is Stephanie that you guys it may take you three years, I don't know the plan, but you but to have a level of intensity

that you guys have never had before is what this is going to require to get out of this and is the 150 was that student

loans? What was it?

>> So, um 150 total. So, we have about 60

in student loans and then 100,000 in

personal loans. and personal loans. Is that car debt, too?

>> No, we paid off all our cars.

>> What did you use the personal loan for?

>> So, we It was a combination of a roof,

um plumbing on our house.

>> Oh, for the house? >> And Yeah. So, it was a combination of our roof, plumbing on our house, and then we had some um credit card debt.

>> Okay. >> What do you owe on your home?

>> Um currently we owe 281,000.

What is it worth?

>> I would say about 500,000. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, some of what you're paying off is not consumer debt. It was part of purchasing the home. So, um you

know, if you rolled some of that into a refinance, that wouldn't be the end of the world. But I wouldn't do that. I think you guys make enough to plow through this. But you're going to have to just look at this budget and go scorched earth. Beans and rice, rice and beans, nothing.

spending nothing. >> Yeah. So, that that's what's I mean, yeah, it it is it's just it's it's the

mindset of having to the deeper you sacrifice, the faster you're going to get out. And that may mean him working extra at night, too. Stephanie, working weekends, you bring in even more income overtime. Um, but again, the deeper and faster you sacrifice, the faster you're going to get out.

And the less you sacrifice, the less you kind of make everything a little bit more comfortable, the longer it's going to be of that process. So it really it comes down to families. I mean honestly looking at each other and just choosing like okay >> stopped all your contribution to retirement paying into that.

>> Oh you are? Okay. So if you stop that that's $7,000 freed up. So pause retirement >> 14.

>> Yeah. Pause retirement >> temporarily. >> Yeah. We have a lot of money in our retirement but we want to make sure that we're set for >> you're going to be fine Stephanie.

You're Yeah. But this 150 is hanging over your head, >> Stephanie. If every time we bring up something on how you can get out of debt, you tell me why you can't do it, I can't help you. >> Oh, no.

I'm just Well, you are thinking of >> So, I mean, you got you got to stop doing that. You okay? You need to stop retirement. You need to go through this budget with a scorched earth idea and burn the place down. you make a tenth of I mean you make a third of what you used to make and you weren't even making it on that and you were calling yourself frugal. So you you've got to sit down

and start looking at this and going okay

we have got to treat this like our hair is on fire. We've got to treat this like the future of our family is dependent on getting rid of this stupid debt regardless of how we got into it.

>> Mhm. >> This is how we get out. We stop all retirement. We stop eating out. We stop going on vacations. We stop anything that looks like a luxury. And we plow into this debt like our life depended on it. And in two years, you could be done.

>> Maybe three, but two, you should be done. You can pick up shifts at the ER.

You can He can pick up shifts here and there. The good news about nursing is you can always up your income temporarily without destroying the family, without going back on the road.

I agree with your decision to come off the road with a baby. I agree with that.

But then we went and hired a nanny basically. >> Mhm. >> And you know when you have $150,000 in debt and you make $162,000, you don't live in nanny land. >> Yeah. >> That's not nanny land. Nanny land is more income than you make and less debt than you've got. So that that's where you are. >> And for a period of time, for a period of time, >> just for a short period of time, what have we got to do to go crazy to clean up this mess we've made? and no excuses, no rationalizations.

You got to end it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 20. Building Wealth Means Learning the Art Of Patience | November 10, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is

weird. That's why we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

888255225 is the phone number. 8 8255225.

I got I'm going to warn the audience.

This is a good warning, but I got a little extra juice today. Uh, so as a man of the people and alongside the most fly co-host a man could have, >> Jade Warshaw, >> what a high honor, Kim. >> You got the you got the Lulu uh sweatsuit on in full effect. If you're not watching, you need to head over to YouTube because >> I always say she's fabulous and today you put the all caps fab in there.

mess around and drown the late 80s, early 90s tracksuit vibe. Something going on. So, you're ready? I don't even have to ask. Noah, >> are you ready? >> I I thought I was uh and then I walked in. I think I got a little extra juice now. So, a little little little extra energy and I'm excited about it because Noah starts us off in Detroit, the motor city, the home of my mother, Barb. How

about that? I love Detroit. Let's go, Noah. How can we help today?

>> Hey, Ken. How are you doing? Well, you can tell a little fired up today. How can I help?

>> Um, I'm looking for some advice. Um, I'm

in my third year of college right now going for a mechanical engineering degree and, um, I'm wondering if it's

time to maybe switch paths and go into

the family business and stop pursuing mechanical engineering. >> Okay. Now, I'm going to get right to this. Is this a heart question, Noah, or is this a head question? And let me explain before you answer. If it's a hard question, um, not too long in the past, you

started thinking about the business, the family, you want to be a part of the legacy, there's something pulling you in, and it's a positive emotion.

Or if it's a head question,

I got into college, pursued mechanical engineering. I don't think it's my jam.

Not sure what I want to do, Jade. Right.

I think I'll do a fall back because I know that the nest is warm. So, with that being a probably too long setup,

>> Noah, is this a head question or a heart question?

>> So, I think it's more of a I think it's more of a head question, but I'd say I wouldn't be doing it as a as a fall back. >> Okay. It would be more of looking at it as uh you know, I've kind of thought of

the business maybe as as it would be a fall back, but I'm looking at my parents and they're doing really well from the business and doing well than I think I would be able to do as an engineer and thinking that, you know, that could be >> okay, >> could be an opportunity that I that I look past. >> All right, I appreciate the honesty. I really do. And I'm going to I'm going to challenge this.

I don't First of all, this is not a bad decision. you know, head good head decisions work out.

15 years from now, >> and you're running the family business, and it's been great financially.

>> Yes. Come on, Ken. Get into it.

>> You know where I'm going. I do know. >> And you're doing well. You've served mom and dad well. They're they're proud of you. You got a good life. dare I say

great life on paper, but inside your

soul has slowly seeped out of your body over the last 15 years because you took a sound, a smart financial choice.

That's why I always put it out that way.

So again, okay, if you go do it, but

understand that you're going to have to make if you make that choice, you're going to have to make some other choices to say then, all right, I'm going to make sure that I'm serving in my local community. I'm going to find something outside of the family business that lights my heart up. Yeah.

>> And so that I am experiencing meaning as

a person. >> Yeah. >> Not just a professional who's killing it. Otherwise, you'll have that unfinished business when you when you look up. >> Yeah. >> I mean, what kind of work is the family business? What type of job would you be doing specifically? >> Um, they run a machine shop. So, it's a smaller smaller machine shop about four employees. Um, including my dad and my

mom. And >> what do you think you would make? You said that the the real primary reason for this is because he goes, I'll make more work in in the family business, running the family business, than I would as a mechanical engineer.

I was going to say, what are the numbers? What are you running and what's the difference? >> So, starting out, I mean, I would probably make similar to what I'm making now at my part-time job in like the low 20s, but I know that their profit is

around 300,000. >> Wait a sec. Wait a sec. He's got he's got a part-time job right now in school.

>> But would you be making the same amount doing the same part-time work or would it be full-time that you'd be making the same amount? Does that make sense? >> No, same amount like per hour.

>> Okay. Okay. Um, so but that's just starting out. But, um, you know, I think

starting out as a machinist, it would probably be similar pay. I just I think that the opportunity for, um, for the

for that pay to increase is is a lot bigger in the when you own your own business. >> All right. Okay. So, you were listening to Jade and I. I was preaching. She was amening. And I appreciate that, by the way.

>> How did you receive that? You're a young guy. your early 20s or is that right?

>> Yeah, I'm 20. >> All right. So, what are you thinking long term when I said that? Did it register? And what what was your head response? What was your heart response?

>> Um, my heart response was

that I think I think no matter what I do, whether I did engineering or um

worked at the machine shop, I think that I would have to find that fulfillment outside of work. >> Yeah, I I had that sense.

>> Let me ask this question. What if you, let's pretend you get off this call and you're like, you know what? I'm going to work for the family business. You start working. Five years from now, you look up and you say, "Hey, this is just not hitting the way I thought." What would happen with the relationship dynamic?

>> Let's play that out. If you were to go to mom and dad and say, "You know what? I know I'm here. I know you guys depend on me. I got to go my separate ways." How do you see how do you foresee that something like that playing out? Would it mess up the relationship?

>> Oh, no. I don't think so. I think if if I without me stepping in and sort of trying to maybe become like the next generation, um I think they would probably end up closing when they retired anyways. So, I don't think it would strain the relationship.

>> All right. Just for fun. Okay. And just for fun, I mean this.

>> Mhm. >> What would you pick just just as a big professional if I told you that you would be successful at it right now? What would you do? Not mechanical engineering, not run a mom and dad's shop.

What would you do? >> You like that? Yeah, I do. I I do that on purpose.

What would you try if you knew you couldn't fail and you knew you'd be successful at it and you knew you could change your mind? What would that be? Fill in the blank. Go.

>> Oh, instantly I'd go go be a cattle rancher.

>> Oh my god. Okay. >> Okay. I should have asked this question a lot sooner. All right. So, we got about a minute. Here we go. Really quick answers. What's keeping you from pursuing being a cattle rancher?

>> Um, I think the unknown. I don't know anyone who's done. >> Great. You ready? I got you four questions. You got something to write with? >> Yeah. >> Here we go. Four questions you got to answer in the next week. And this will take away the fear of the unknown. Number one, what do I have to learn?

That's what's the qualification process to be eventually become a cattle rancher. What do I need to do? What's the experience piece? The first one is the education question. What do I need to learn? Second is what I need to do.

That's the experience piece. I've got to start out on the ranch, right? The whole nine yards. What do I got to do to get in? >> Third question is, >> what is it going to cost me? What is that education and experience? The first two questions, what's it going to cost me? And then based on the cost, Noah,

fourth question is the expectation question. How long will it take? So, here we go. Quick review. A lot of people need this today. What do I need to learn? What do I need to do? How much will it cost? How long will it take?

Jade, let me tell you something. Those four questions take away the fear of the unknown. And it helps you decide to move forward.

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All right, let's go to Sheldon who's joining us now in Salt Lake City. Sheldon, how can we help today?

>> Hi, how you guys doing? >> Good. What's going on?

>> Good, good. Hey, so uh um yeah, I just

had some crazy life uh changes here in

the past couple months. Um, to put it shortly, I've I've been married,

graduated, graduated college, um, had a

death in the family, and then now laid off of a job. So, >> oh my gosh. >> Um, yeah, things have been kind of crazy. >> And what's the time period on this? Like just a couple months?

>> Yeah, just within just since May.

>> When did you get laid off? When did you get laid off?

>> I got laid off uh about like a month ago. >> Oh, man. I'm sorry. What? Where? What?

Laid off from doing what kind of work?

Oh. Um, so I got laid off from a machine. Um, I was in the manufacturing industry. >> Interesting. And what are you doing now?

>> So, right now, um, this kind of leads into my question. So, I recently just got a new job as a quality engineer, uh, down in Salt Lake City.

>> So, my wife, my wife and I are going to relocate down there. Um, and we're wondering just because we're re relocating our our only car broke as as well. Um, so we just got a new car. Um,

or sorry, we already had the we already had her car, but my car broke down.

>> Okay. >> We just have one. Um, and so we're wondering since we're on baby step two, we want to pay off my my student loan debt, but we also kind of need another form of transportation just in case this one breaks. >> So, we're wondering if I should pay off my debt first or or get a new car.

>> So, she there's one car family. It's her car. How old is it? Tell them tell me about that car.

The car we have right now is a 2005 Toyota Corolla. >> Okay. >> Oh, that'll run till 3000. Year 3000.

>> Yeah. Do you have any problems with it now or is it running just fine?

>> Um it's we have to replace the Cadillac converter on it. Um but we've been replacing so much stuff the past um yeah

couple weeks. So we're like we hope it because it should it's a Toyota. It should be good, right? But >> yeah, I mean it's gonna need maintenance. You're gonna have to replace things over time. 2005. But do you feel like >> when you took it and it needed the work and you did the work, do you feel like that was the end of the laundry list for now? >> We hope so. We hope so. Yeah.

>> And have you gotten to Salt Lake City yet? You're there or you're about to go?

>> No, we're we're looking for an apartment now. So, >> do you need a second car? I think I know the answer, but I have to ask.

>> Yeah. Um, so with that, like we're trying to find a place that I could possibly commute, um, you know, using the UTA, uh, the tracks or something like that. So, um, so, but with the

place that we're at now, it it' probably be an hour, give or take, if I did take the tracks. >> Okay. >> So, am I Yeah.

>> And how much student loan debt do you have?

>> Um, I have 13,500.

>> Anything else? Any other types of debt?

credit card debt, personal loans,

anything else? >> No, >> just the 13,000. >> We've been following the >> Yeah, we've been following the debt snowball. So, >> good. >> That's where we're at now. >> You know, you might be talking to the wrong one because when my husband and I paid off uh we're working to pay off half a million. We sold our car and we were a onecar family for a decade.

>> Um, and you just learn how to make it work. And I'm going to tell you why I did it. because my sister started it by

being a onecar family and they had two kids and they did it and I said, "Well, if they can do it, then we can do it." And we kind of just got used to how things ran and it was a decade before we got a second vehicle. >> You did it for how long after actually paying off debt? >> Uh, seven, six years.

>> Yeah, that blows my mind by the way. It >> that's great >> because I knew at that point you know how to prioritize and you know what's important to you and you go for that. So, for me, I'm going to tell you, I'm like, figure it out. Do one car until you pay off this 13,000. It's not that much. What are you going to be making at this new job?

>> Um, so with this new job, we're we're going to be making 72,000 with this new one. So, >> how quickly can you pay off 13,000 with you doing a new job, maybe picking up a little side hustle, maybe your wife doing a little something on the side as well. How quickly could you do that?

>> Yeah, we'll probably do it pretty quickly. A couple months. >> Yeah. Then you can save up cash and you can buy something in cash and then of course you know how it works.

Um you save up some cash maybe you buy yourself a little beater5 or $7,000 and then the way this works guys when you buy cars that are that cheap by the way Ken they're not losing a lot of value super fast they're kind of worth what they're worth at that point >> 100%.

You put it with that cash and now you're driving a $10,000 car. And if it's a priority, you save a little bit more and you put another 3,000, before you know it, you're driving a $13,000 car. That's how this works. And if I'm going to be quite frank for the listening audience, Ken, when I first started listening to Dave Ramsey, uh, back in 2005, 2007,

when I heard him say the idea of stopping with the car payments and paying cash for cars, that was probably one of two things that he used to teach that really >> I wondered if the guy was all there. I WAS LIKE, IS what he's saying true? I had a hard time wrapping my bra my brain around it because you don't hear that every day. Over 40% of Americans have car payments. So that's right. There's part of that that it's like, wait, what?

What are you saying? Have a one car family pay off my car and then pay cash for the other one? Jaden, Ken, are you smoking something? No, we're not.

>> No. Well, in this case, uh, first of all, I love the advice. I was going to go that direction. I think in this case, um, because of the public transportation, um, because of their they have such little debt.

I love the idea of a young couple going in there learning how to adapt. And I think the hour train ride both ways, >> I would use that as a little bit of penance to kind of keep me motivated to get the 13 knocked out to then save up for something. >> And I would use that to learn. I'd use that to journal.

I would really use that time and learn >> the art.

patience. >> Yes. And I think that's what I love so much about you and Sam and your story is that you figured it out. And it reminds me of the old phrase, this is for the entire audience, whether your situation is different, but you're trying to get out of debt, trying to pay for a car, to

save up, to make life a little bit more convenient, here's the takeaway. Where there is a will, you know how it goes.

>> There's a way. >> And I think that that is grandma wisdom.

I think it's right. I think you and Sam proved it. >> Yes. But let's not be uh let's be honest

with the people and tell them it's very easy to sit from our positions and say that. But for the person who's receiving that, it's emotional because for so many of us, the car the very car that we're telling you to sell is the car you bought yourself because you were celebrating the job you got when you graduated college, right? That was your that was your retirement present that you can now no longer afford. So there is an emotional component where we go, "Wait a minute, Jade and Ken.

>> You know what I'm saying? They're hearing it going, "Well, you're you're on the other side. It's easy for you to say that now, but Ken and I understand that struggle. We know that it's an emotional thing.

We know that it's hard to go home and try to tell your spouse, "Hey, by the way, we're selling the the Tahoe, and here's why." It's emotional when you you show up for the holiday and your family's like, "What happened to that Cadillac you guys used to drive?" And you're like, "Oh." And you go through that mental thing of like, "Do I tell them that we're paying off debt? It's really none of their business." D.

Ken, I talk about that kind of stuff in the book that I just came out with, what no one tells you about money. Cuz no one tells you that. No one tells you, "Hey, this is a battle." And if you can just come to the point of acceptance, this is just part of the process. The time will come when I can get that car I want again.

But for today, like you said, where there's a will, there's a way. And this is a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. >> Well, and and I I I love it. I love that you said that.

And but but we are not speaking from this ivory tower. I'm glad you pointed that out.

>> We're not h we're not robots. We're humans. And there is an emotional side to winning with money.

>> And uh I'm going to tell you though, but that's where the will comes in. Because when we can say what is the desired future that we have >> and if I can focus more on how great that future will be, >> it makes it makes it >> a slight bit easier.

>> Not easy. >> Yes. >> But a slight bit not even easy. Let me say this. It makes it bearable.

>> And you share a lot of stories in this book about >> um it is bearable. you can bear the burden. >> Yeah. >> Of the rough emotions.

>> Well, it's it's all about reframing it in in the fact that you're making a trade-off. It's not that you're missing out on something. It's not, oh my gosh, I don't get to have this. I don't get to go on trips.

I don't get to drive the car I want. I don't get to uh have my free time cuz I have to side hustle, right? It's about retra reframing is that as a trade. I'm trading something that I want now for something that I want most, which is a future without stress and debt and payments.

and to be able to actually do the things that I say are important to me.

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All right. So, uh, we were talking about Jade's book and and what I love about the book. It's just not another money book. Now, a lot of you Ramsey folks, I'm just going to hit this head on. You're going, "Why do we need another money book from another money personality?" Wrong question. Uh, because this is not another one.

>> What is it, Ken? >> Um, well, I I my personal take on it is is it addresses the thing that we don't talk a lot about on this show.

>> Yeah. We give you the baby steps. They work. It there's no argument.

>> No argument. No question. Um, and there are times where we as hosts, >> we will jump in on the emotion.

>> I do as a nonmoney personality, I will

try to listen for what is the mindset,

what's the emotional situation that I think is present in this particular call. >> But what you do in this new book, what no one tells you about money, and you're going, what is it? Well, I'm going to let you answer it. >> Yeah. What is it that no one tells us

about money and you now do in this book?

What is it? >> No one tells you that money is so emotional. We tell you all the time money is connected to everything you do, right? It's connected to your career.

It's connected to your relationships.

It's connected to your faith walk. It's connected to so many areas. Therefore, when people like Ken and I are saying, "Hey, make these changes." you are going to run up against those areas in your life where you have had prior experience that is now informing how you feel about money. I said, let let me give you an example. Uh you might be a person who

can you worked at a job for 15 years and they just up and laid you off.

>> Happens all the time. >> And so you weren't expecting it. Yeah, maybe you could have done a better job handling your money, but now you're in a bunch of credit card debt, >> right? So you're calling here telling us about your credit card debt.

What's at the core of that is there's a lot of hurt about how you were treated. There's a lot of shame about the fact that over those 15 years you could have done a better job managing your money. So there's a lot under the surface about how we are really feeling that's not just cut up your credit card and pay off your debt. Right.

That's right. >> And so this is talking to you about that. Or maybe you had a spouse who you were married to forever and they lorded over the money and they were controlling and then they just up and left you. And it's taken you years and years to build back from that experience.

And here we are. You know why? All you need to do is walk, you know, pay list them smallest to largest, right? And we're right.

You do list need to list them smallest to largest. But what about the thing underneath that's making you feel like you got a raw deal? What's about what about the part underneath that's making you feel like, well, shouldn't my ex have to pay half of this? And that can block us.

It can make us want to stop and go, wait, first I need somebody to make it. I need somebody else to make this right. I need somebody to apologize to me.

>> Let's work through the emotions. Let's accept what's happened. Let's accept our role in it, whether it was teeny, teeny tiny or really, really big. And let's get about the work of changing it and accepting what's going on.

Accepting the process of change and accepting the fact that this is going to be an emotional process and that's okay. >> Listen, it's the only Ramsay book to take an honest deep dive look into the emotional side of money. And I'll tell you this from my standpoint. Uh, you know, I'm in the personal and professional growth space.

So, I could name names. I'm not going to.

>> And I can tell you, how do you know somebody's full of crap? They say stuff like that because here's what I know.

Uh, having coached over 10,000 people on the Ken Coleman Show, thousands more here on the Ramsey Show. You cannot act

your way into change. It is emotion. And if you change the way somebody feels, if we can change the way we feel, then and only then can we change the way we act.

That's why this book is so important because it takes that on >> and it's not ignoring the baby steps.

It's in lock step with it. Yes. Uh and >> it will cause you to walk the baby steps faster. >> Get it now cuz it's the best deal.

$24.99. It's on pre-sale right now.

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Get it today. Taylor now joins us in San Antonio, Texas. Taylor, how can we help?

>> Hi, how are y'all? >> Great. How are you?

>> I am good. I am um calling because I'm hoping you guys can settle a marital debate. >> We can I am confident in this. I don't even know what it is. >> Um and I handle our finances. So, I'll start off by saying that. Um I adore my husband, but uh he's just not a money person. >> So, um we have total we have three items

of debt p uh in our lives. That's it. No car payments, nothing. um a mortgage of $222,000.

Um my husband's student loan is about $106,000.

Okay. >> And then um we have a uh let me see this

last one here. Sorry.

>> Oh, a business loan of about 115,000. So

kind of roughly about $440,000

and that's half a million dollars in debt. >> Is the business still alive?

>> It is still alive. Um it's our personal business. So I and my husband's a physician. Um I know that kind of plays into it, but we started our own clinic.

>> Okay. >> Um so he we pay him you know a salary

and then you know we take quarterly dividends. >> Uhhuh. >> Well I am at the mindset I want my house pay off. You know I pay my kids private school with cash. Everything is cash.

But these three things and they are bothering me so much. But my husband wants to take these quarterly dividends after paying off the minimum balance of the loans and put them into our Fidelity. So sometimes 7 to $10,000 a

month goes straight into Fidelity.

>> And I just don't He just once he thinks

when you invest early it just pays off later. But >> Well, I get it. Well, he's right and he's wrong. >> Yeah. Um >> there's worse things you could do than invest your money. But Ken's going to explain why that's not the good >> Yeah. I'll let you do that. You're the money guru. But I I I just am curious.

What are you all paying him?

>> See, and that's the thing. I pay him 200,000 because we just opened five years ago. So, you know, we we work with our CPA. Sure. You know, it's >> and I it's probably going to have to start going up because the dividends have become greater this year. >> And I was going to ask you, could you give us maybe a sixmonth average of what the dividend I mean, not six month because I know it's quarterly. Give me a year's worth of quarterly dividends.

What's that >> gross? Like our tax is about 450 450,000. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, you're averaging on these dividends somewhere in the 7 to 10 range.

>> Yeah. >> Whoa. We just lost you there. We got you. I mean, >> there you go. Is that right? So, quarterly dividends somewhere between 7 to 10. Is that what I heard?

>> Yes. And I And I aggressively pay off I pay almost $7,000 a month for this business loan. So, I only have a year and a half left. So he So you are paying on that just the minimums, right?

>> Get that money in.

>> Are you just paying the minimums on the debt?

>> I'm paying a minimum on my student my husband student loan because he's I think it's like a spite thing and then it's only 2.6%.

>> But what about the Okay, >> but how are you paying down the business loan is what she's asking. >> Yeah. What about the business? Is it just the minimum on that? >> Paid through the business before the dividend. So every month I pay almost $6800 a month.

>> Understood. But is that the minimum or are you paying above the minimum? >> I'm paying a little bit more. I am. So, >> the 6.86%. >> You both have you both have different ideas about what the priority is. It sounds like you'd rather take that money and pay off the mortgage. Did I understand that? >> Uh, yes. Okay. Mortgage every I mean, if you're looking at the the it's the mortgage 3.125.

>> Understand? So, you're talking about this you Here's the problem. Um, and I don't know if I'm going to get through on this call, but it's something it's food for thought. He's thinking about the future.

He's thinking, "Let me take this extra money and invest." Not a bad idea. There's, like I said, there's a lot worse things you could do with the money. You're thinking about the money saying, "Let me take this and put it on the mortgage." Again, not a horrible idea. You could do a lot worse.

But let's what I'm here to do is give you guys a sense of what the priority should be.

You feel me? So, first off, you've got this debt. I don't care what the interest rate is, it's still climbing.

Can we agree on that? >> 100%. >> And as long as we're paying minimum payments, we're probably never going to pay this thing off. We're going to pay so much in interest.

So, why don't we prioritize paying off our debt? And I say this because when you pay off the debt, now you have what Dave Ramsey would call your biggest income, your biggest wealth building tool, which is your income working for you. And once you have that income back in your hands, yes, you can pay off your mortgage very, very quickly. Yes, you can invest for the future far more than you ever were before.

So, let's get that tool back in our hands.

They're probably broken into smaller pieces. You need to pay minimum payments on everything. Student loans, business loans, but then you need to put all of the extra margin on the smallest debt.

And let's knock it out. You guys can be done with these these student loans and this business loan very very quickly. Uh when you're grossing and netting $450,000 a year or whatever it says that you were doing, you can do this.

Priority matters.

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may not be available in all states. >> Okie dokie. Today's question comes from Nikki in Nebraska. She says, "My husband and I are in our early 30s. We bought a home next door to his parents about 5 years ago. His parents' home is paid off with 40 acres of land. My in-laws want

us to sell our home and build them a small home on the property with the money we make from it." Okay. Then they

would give us their house free and clear. We bought our home for 135,000

and remodeled it. We could sell it for 285,000.

The hitch is that my husband doesn't want to sell our home. He wants to take out a loan of around 70,000 to build a

house for them and hold on to our home as a rental. What is the best move for our future?

>> It ain't that one. Oh, first of all, I just want to throw all the papers up.

>> Yeah, I uh just tell you where I'm at. I just uh checked out of that question halfway through. They made this so complex and so ridiculous. I've never

even this the gymnastics that I had to do mentally to get through that tells you one thing. >> Well, it's a lot. I mean, the the the the gist of it is the gist of it is for some reason they feel like in some form or fashion they have to buy a house for their in-laws. >> Yeah. I had three words that came to mind. Leave and cleave was in my marriage vows. >> Yeah. Or how about no? How about no?

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's why you say no.

>> Leave and cleave.

>> No. Bad idea.

>> Horrible. >> My in-laws want us to sell our home and build them a small home on the property.

>> Yeah. I want my kids to buy me a Lamborghini. Sure. What else are we going to say? That's ridiculous. >> Will you buy my G Wagon, Kim? >> Sure. Why not? >> Oh, I was expecting you to say no. Well, I'm being ridiculous here. I'm being ridiculous. It's just like what?

>> Yeah. No. No. On all fronts. Literally, >> by the way, those people ask that question because they think they're going to get a positive answer. So, there's a lot of psychology behind that, which I can't dig into over an email question, but boy oh boy, that's a bad move. >> There's no there's not enough to it for us to get to the bottom of it. But >> I'm gonna tee you up. Okay. Yeah.

>> Big T right here. Giant golf ball. You got the world's biggest driver. I'm teeing you up. All right. tell our larger audience, forget the details of this question, but the whole issue that's underneath this, which is family pressure. Yes. >> Doing financial things with family that have zero boundaries. Uh, there's your shot. Hit it down the fairway. >> I mean, I don't think I'm going to say what you think I'm going to say, Ken.

>> I don't presume to know what you're saying. >> I thought you had something set up. I'm gonna say >> I'm just saying why we uh think this is a bad idea in general. >> Because this right here is what I think is a classic case of it. It has a guilt

that's associated with it. Ken, >> because we can feel guilt with money, whether it's something I didn't do, right? They expected me to do this and I wasn't able to do it, right? We can feel guilt about doing the right thing and the people don't understand why we're doing it. So, we can even feel guilty doing the right thing. And so, what I sense from this is there's some family guilt here. Well, if we don't build them the house, how are they going to have a house? They know the right thing to do.

>> That's right. That's why they're running out all these options. And they're afraid that if they don't build their in-law home, they're going to have to be the one that lives with that. Y >> when really it's the in-laws that have to live with that for whatever reason that they can't buy their own home or build their own home. That's their problem. >> You want to do a family compound? Great.

But everybody pays for their own home.

>> Everybody pays for their own home and you shouldn't have to carry that. >> Yeah. It's craziness. All right. Well done. You hit it right down the middle. 400y drive. McKenna is up next in Salt

Lake City. McKenna, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um, so my question today is, "My husband's employer just opened healthcare enrollment and we're wondering if we should reenroll this year due to his premiums doubling along with his out-of- pocket max and deductible doubling as well." >> Oh my gosh. >> Here's another real life case

>> of an of the affordability crisis in America. M >> this is just absolute real stuff right here. >> Yeah. Insurance prices have really really really skyrocketed.

>> And what is Congress what do they do?

What are both parties doing? Just whistling just whistling around in DC like nothing's happening. Here we go.

McKenna. So give us real numbers. Uh because it'll help us. And then I want the American people to hear this as well. So it's going to go from what to what?

>> So it's currently $500 a month which has

been okay for us. has been sustainable with our income, but it's going up to $900.

>> And what's your And what's your income?

>> Wow.

>> Our monthly income is $5,000 a month

combined. >> Yeah. You feel that?

>> Yeah. Unbelievable. >> I for sure feel that. We just had a fivemon Well, we just had a baby. He's 5 months old. >> I'm grateful for insurance, but I'm also just like, we're feeling the pressure with it already being at 500. How are we

supposed to go up to 900? Um, I'm really lucky. My boss is amazing. He doesn't offer healthare because it's a small company, but he does give us $200 a month towards healthare.

>> Okay. >> So, I'm just like, do I selfinsure? I've called my pediatricians. I've called my primary doctors. And I'm just like, how much would it be if I didn't have insurance and numbers?

>> Have you priced it out? Are you going to the market on your own, not through his work? So, I've called the market a couple times in the last couple days and tried to get a contact with some brokers, but due to the government shutdown, unfortunately, it's hard to get quotes out. >> And so, they've been struggling getting quotes out to me. I've talked to probably four or five people and I've only gotten one quote and it was $700.

>> Yeah. I mean, we could set you up with folks here. I mean, wealth trust, you could go over there and see if if they can find some better um numbers for you just to see so you can compare. And I think that's the takeaway from this call is you need to run a comparison and see

is it better for you guys to go out in the open market on yourself using your $200 rebate or is it better for you to go through his through his work. The truth is, as much as I hate to admit it, McKenna, insurance is going up. I mean, it's going up here at our work. Um, everybody is feeling it. It's just part of what's going on in that industry. Um,

but you can always shop the numbers. you can always uh see if there's something that's better for you out there. And if not, then it's tough. I I'm not going to act like this is easy, but you're going to have to adjust to whatever the new number is because I doubt you're going to find it for the exact same amount with the same coverage.

It's likely going to go up somewhat, and you're going to have to find that in your budget, whether it's cutting back in another area or you guys starting to look for different jobs that pay a little bit more. Um, that's the very emotional side of this is when an external thing happens and it affects our life internally and it's like, well, wait a minute. I had nothing to do with this and now here I am holding the bag for it and I have to change my life and rearrange my money and rearrange how I was working.

That's emotional and I'm sorry that you're having to go through that. >> Yeah.

>> We do. We have about $47,000 in consumer

debt. >> Uh, run just give me a a list here. go smallest debt to the largest debt.

>> So, our smallest debt is a credit card

with about $1,700 on it. And then the

next debt is another credit card that we put medical bills on for my son's delivery due to some insurance mixups

and we had to pay more out of pocket than we thought. Um, we saved up 10,000, ended up having to pay about 16,000. So, there there's about $6,000 on that credit card. >> Okay. >> And then we have two auto loans. One I think has like 19,000 and one has 18,000. >> Okay. You're you're I think a lot of your relief is found in those vehicles.

>> Yeah. And that's why it's getting rid of that debt. So, first of all, we hear you. We see you. >> And it sucks. And I'm not going to pull my hair out today and rant at DC. Um

maybe later I'll let myself calm down.

>> Keep keep your hair. It looks It looks good. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. Uh but but what I would say is is that what can we control? So other than voting, we can't

control what DC does, what the healthcare companies do. There's things that are outside of our control. You understand that? Yes.

>> Okay. But what you can control is um well, we're going to have an increase in health care, but we're not going to we we're going to do what we got to do on that. We got to take care of of baby, got to take care of our family. Now, there is some struggle ahead for you all and it has nothing to do with the health care cost because I would tell you that you could absorb that health care increase if you didn't have all those car payments.

You didn't have the credit card payments. So, you guys are listening to us. You're watching us. You called McKenna, you got to double down here.

We're going to work. We're going to sell everything. We're not going to see the inside of a restaurant.

that's going to all that debt and put it back in your pocketbook. We're going to have the ability to pay the healthcare increase and thrive.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Coming to you from the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman joined by Jade Warshaw. Excited to have you with us. 88 8255225.

Kimberly is up next in Houston, Texas.

Kimberly, how can we help today?

>> Hey y'all, how are you? >> Good. What's going on?

>> Uh, so we uh found an old 401k and it

has about 11 um $111,000 in it.

>> We also >> I love that you found it like it was over in the corner.

>> We're doing some fall cleaning. >> But thanks thanks to you, Ken. My husband left that job. Um he found the proximity principal and he just found a new career. So the 401k just kind of got pushed on the back burner. >> Yeah. I love >> Thank you for that. >> Oh, happy to do it. He did it and I didn't do anything. So that's fun.

111,000. Did I hear that right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> So that's the good part. The bad part, um, we have a slew of credit card debt with three of the major cards having 57,000 and the total credit card debt is

80,500.

>> Oh my. Okay.

>> Yes, I know. So, uh, the question is, if

we take it out of the 401k and we have to pay taxes and a 10% penalty because he's under 59, um, should we do that?

>> No. >> No. >> This is this was money whether you remembered doing it or not, this was money that you guys specifically set aside for retirement. Therefore, it's wrapped it's wrapped up in retirement

boundaries. And if you pull it out of those boundaries, you're going to be hit with fees. You're going to be hit with taxes. Um, and that's what that you're

un unplugging an investment. So, no, I would not do that. What I would do is roll that money to an IRA. Um, a direct transfer rollover, meaning you're not pulling it the money out.

You're just rolling it over. Therefore, you're not paying the taxes on it. Um, what you need to do with this debt is approach it the way that we would tell anybody um to pay off their debt, Ken. And that's using your income via side hustles, via your your real income, and cut back in your budget.

That's the way to attack debt, not to unplug your future investments.

>> Um, together we we do ride at $100,000 a

year. >> Mhm. >> Okay. And you told me Go ahead.

>> I was just going to say we don't really have any other debt. Our cars are paid off. Um, we do have a house, but that's our only other debt. So, um, not picking on you, but digging in here, >> what led to $80,000?

That's not a shopping spree.

>> It It's not. Um, so I mean, some of it was just uh we felt like have to like uh

we were um we were attacked by Hurricane Harvey, which destroyed our house >> and that had to be redone. And then I had cancer, so MD Anderson doesn't really care. That deductible has to be paid. And then those are legit in my opinion. But the other it's just crap.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Definitely knew better. >> And the reason I asked that is is because we ask this question a lot.

You're calling us on what to do to pay it off. And I love that. But have the

both of you had your I've had it moment

where you go, okay, despite what has

happened, we're not going to play armchair quarterback. We're not doing that again. Are we at that moment?

>> Yes. God love him. And I think he is listening. um he's he hasn't been quite

on uh on board with me and I think he's

there now. So, hence the okay, let's either do the 401k or let's set it into the budget, but let's do something.

>> Okay. So, let's give us I'm I'm glad you guys are ready to do something. Let's make sure we're making the next right step, right? Because we don't want to do things out of desperation. We don't want to do things with the right intent but the wrong uh methodology. Okay? So, let's do it the right way. Um, you guys are making what? 6,400 a month. Does that sound about right? 6,300.

>> It does. >> Okay. Are you currently investing still?

>> Um, so the company he's with now, they I

think they pull out a little bit. So, they they pull out um it's a match on his 401k.

>> Okay. So, let's pause that because you guys need all the money you can get to pay off this debt super duper fast. And I understand that saying that strikes fear in the heart of many because you're thinking what? >> I need to stack up the money. But you are just willing to drain a 401k for

this purpose. So surely we can go ahead and just pause the the investing for now. Keep the 111 plugged in. And what we're going to do is we're going to take all these credit cards and we're going to list them smallest to largest.

And we're gonna keep paying minimum payments like you have been. But all the extra money that you can get your hands on, we're going to throw it at the smallest debt.

>> Um, not a whole lot. We have a daughter in college as well, so there's not a lot left over, but I don't think honestly we're as disciplined as we could be.

>> Understood. I like that honesty. >> Are you double income? I didn't pay attention. I'm sorry. I thought I heard his income. >> You are or you are not?

We own a small business and then he works for a home builder.

>> And the total was 100,000 a year >> right around there. Yes, ma'am. Okay. >> And the reason I asked that question is is there are there opportunities for either one of you to make some more money for a season?

>> Um I have side hustles because ours is

ours is uh our business is clothing related and so I have all of that um

outside online possibilities. And then

he is uh salary and bonus based. So yes.

>> So what do you do uh aside um or in

addition to I should say to the hundred,000, what are you doing with the side hustles? What does that bring in?

>> Oh my goodness. I I don't have like a number I can tell you, >> but it's also not enough that you even it's on your and I I I my point here I'm making is if it were a a decent chunk

that number would be readily available in your brain. And I think that's the challenge I'm making. >> Or if your or if your budget if you're really on your budget, >> fair, but it's not a whole lot of money and it's not very consistent. And so we need to change that is my point because we got a big hole.

>> What Ken is what Ken is saying and I I want to double down on this for anybody listening is when you have a debt problem like this, there's two ways you can tackle it. What Ken is saying, which is you money, right? This doesn't happen. It's not a magic trick. You got to put some money into the budget. And the other thing is, yeah, you can cut expenses, but sometimes when you've got a kid in college or you've got daycare or private school or these other things, they are starting to eat at that margin.

So, there's really only so much that you can cut from the budget. So, yeah, the other part which is going out and generating more and more income that can be such a huge part of this and I think that's going to be the case for you guys as too, Kimberly. Um, that's the way this works. There's not I wish there was an easy button to push, Ken. >> I do too. I do too. But we have got to get more income. And this is specifically to your case.

>> Mhm. >> So, let me make another suggestion. And

I and I'm only making this as a suggestion. Um, with these side hustles

in this season where we're trying to make as much as we can to pay off this debt quickly, >> uh, or as quick as possible, shall we say, >> uh, you're going to have to weigh your time. Yes. >> The amount of time, Jade, that she is putting into these hustle. I could see you doing your coaching.

You've done some cool videos where you sit with somebody. We I know you you would be like, "All right, how much time a week?" And this is the question, Kimberly, that you got to weigh through. You don't have to answer it specifically because our time is short.

>> That's right. >> Any money-making venture and how much money am I bringing in? because I might need to pause all of that and go get myself a job at XYZ to bring an

additional three, four,

five grand a month. >> Yeah. >> For a season. >> Yes. >> To make a big debt and 80,000 plus of

credit card debt. >> When you're in debt, now is not the time to get jobs that you like cuz you just like it. Right. Now is the time to get the highpaying job, the highpaying side hustle. It doesn't matter if you like it or not. It's a short-term sacrifice.

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All right. So, I want to talk about uh something that's happened recently in the news because we're the largest money show in the world and and I don't want

to have our heads in the sand >> and uh so let's just talk about some reality. So, saw some data recently, Jade, that 70% of millennials are have a favorable view of socialism.

Now, I make that statement and a lot of you get real nervous. There's a lot of emotions right now and that's okay because we're going to be adults and we're going to step into something that needs to be talked about and that is the affordability crisis in America. Now, I start with that data, Jade, because you hear that and you go, "What?"

And some of you may go, "Oh, these whatever whatever whatever insults that you might come up with, you're outraged by that." I understand that.

>> Affordability. They're outraged by the affordability crisis. >> No. Outraged that 70% of millennials view >> socialism favorably. Okay. All right. So then we have a big election and mom

Donnie becomes he's a is a a vowed socialist. He becomes the mayor of New York. That creates a lot of emotions.

You're going to see a lot of headlines.

That guy's name and what he stands for is going to be in the news a lot.

>> Yeah. >> So I'm addressing this not from a political standpoint but from a financial economic standpoint.

>> Okay. So, whatever your emotions and feels are, here's what I want to point out. The reason that 70% of millennials,

and I don't know the numbers on Gen Z, but I'm raising three, but the why would

a large chunk of Americans view socialism with some favorability. I'm going to tell you why. There's three major financial reasons why. Number one, student debt. We talk about student debt on this show all the time. It's gotten bigger and bigger and more expensive. It is a full-blown crisis. If you've ever listened to me, I've talked about it. I think the federal government should not be in the banking business. And that's what they're in when they are financing student loans. That's right. And the colleges, Jade, and the universities get the money immediately.

>> They get it immediately. So, when a kid signs up FAFSA and all that junk, they get the loan. Boom. Guess who gets paid?

>> University cashes. >> That's right. And then these students become young adults, become young professionals, become middle-aged professionals, >> and then they calling us >> and they're calling us under the unbearable burden. It feels like now it's bearable. We teach them how to get out of it. But let's talk about the problem. >> So student loans, it's a crisis. It's a hook. And the federal government is on

the back of people with student loans.

Not only is the student loan thing a problem, but the affordability of tuition, Jade, is a problem. The universities keep ratcheting up the cost of tuition. >> Yes, they are. cuz they're getting paid.

They're getting paid immediately.

>> Number two, affordable housing.

>> Real estate. I was hoping it was on your list. >> It's it's it's the biggest of the three, but affordable housing. I'm seeing reports that sometime in the next 6 months or so, we will see the average age of a firsttime home buyer, I can't even believe I'm saying this, Jade, be 40 years of age or older.

>> But we know, I mean, you and I, we deal with that every day. You and I did the math on it the other day. If you if you're making $100,000 and you pick a house for, I don't know, $375,000

and you know, we can run the math on that, but you're going to be putting 60% down for that to be 25% of your take-home pay. >> That's exactly right. >> You can do it, but it's going to take a long long time. >> Long time. I'm glad you mentioned that.

>> So, add that into the emotion. You you've written a book about emotion and money, what no one tells you about money. Well, I'm gonna get real >> and marry politics and economics for a second. >> The third factor, >> the skyrocketing cost of health care

>> and the spotty coverage. We take those calls every day. Now,

if you're still with me, and I don't care if you're a conservative or a liberal, I'm not making a political statement. I'm talking about the reality of the affordability crisis in America, and I've given you the big three.

>> It's expensive. >> Now, let me play this out.

And I'm not justifying anybody's views on socialism, but I am a realist and I'm a co-host of the largest money show in the world. And we help people dig out of these problems. Now, you take those three things. Let me review very quickly.

Student debt, unaffordable housing, skyrocketing health care with spotty coverage. Take all three of those things and you put them together. And millennials, younger millennials for sure, Jade and Gen Z,

they have never experienced positive capital. What I mean by that is the true usage of the word money.

>> They feel like they have been and they are behind the eight-ball for anyone if

not all three of these combined.

>> Understood? So therefore, the system of capitalism as they know it doesn't work

very well.

>> They have to listen to us old heads to try to tell them. >> So me, Dave, I'll say it. I'm all pro- capitalism, but I am being realistic today as a 51-year-old Gen Xer who has

thrived because of capitalism. My experience with capitalism is very different than theirs. And so I'm just simply pointing out for a moment because this could tear our c country apart and I'm going to make a case today to bring it together.

>> Ken, go for it.

>> Okay. So there's the setup.

I don't think that they're evil. I don't think they're idiots. I don't think they should be ridiculed and made fun of and marginalized. I think they need to be stood up for. And so I'm going to make a suggestion that those of us who have won because of capitalism and experienced the fruit of it, the burden now becomes

on us as we the people if we believe what we say we believe that we now have to collectively put pressure on all politicians, local, state, federal, both

sides of the aisle and say maybe we the

people should vote these lunatics and

these idiots out if they don't work on

policy by creating policy or changing

policy to make things affordable.

Period.

Now, I can say that as as a host of the Ramsay Show because I am not at the mercy of someone with an opinion because I have an experience. M I've a benefited from capitalism and b I've coached thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people and we will take more calls today of people that are dealing with this affordability crisis in America and we the people have one option to start to collectively say let's take on these three issues >> and so as a as a guy who gets this unbelievable privilege >> from a money perspective >> yes >> and you don't come at me cuz a I will not read the comments and James Charles will tell you.

>> What can you come at, Ken? I feel like that's the most difficult thing that I've heard in a long time. >> So, both parties are on the hook for this.

Both parties are on the hook.

>> Yeah. >> And we the people are on the hook to say, "Wait a second. Let's take these three issues alone, affordable housing, the student loans, and the tuition crisis, and health care cost, and let's do something about it. And we've got to make our voices heard. I'm not talking about violence, but I am talking about the one thing that these politicians care most about is their preservation, Jade. They just want to keep getting reelected, >> voted in. >> So, at some point, this is coming to a

head. And I don't want our audience to

get sucked into >> what the mom Donnie election means

>> and what millennials flirting or liking

socialism means. Don't get fearful. Get active. Because I can tell you this, if anything unites the American people, it would be those three issues. >> Yeah, we can all agree that it's out.

That's a big tent. I think we could all say, how many in this giant audience think that af housing affordability should be lower? Everybody's raising their hands. How many in this audience think that health care should be more affordable and better coverage?

That's everybody in this audience. How many people think that the that the the rising tuition in America is out of control and the student loan thing is a crisis and we should get out of the student loan business? How many think that maybe these universities should raise their own freaking dollars? Oh, or use what's already in those giant endowments and pay for bright young students to get educated.

Every hand in the audience goes up. I'm not running for anything. I'm just pointing out that what could break our great nation is this affordability issue and it's solvable.

less stressed country, a far less pissed-off electorate. I just I'm throwing it out there. Ladies and gentlemen, Ken freaking Coleman on the

topic. Way to go, Ken.

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All right, this is fun. Uh, we're going to go to a video call from Brienne. I hope I'm saying that right. In Portland, Oregon. Brienne, hi. How are you?

>> Hi guys. Thanks for having me on.

>> Oh, we're thrilled to have you on. You look fabulous, by the way. So fun. Love the video call. What's going on? How can we help today?

>> Uh, I have a spending addiction that I just can't seem to get over. I've been trying to follow the baby steps, but it's really hard for me. So, I'm just kind of looking for your advice on that.

>> Tell us a little bit more. What is this uh what can you what do you feel comfortable telling us about this particular addiction? Is it just across the board spending or is it one or two categories or one thing? What is it?

>> Yeah. So, it's fast food cuz I have such a busy schedule that I don't plan for making dinner. So, I spend money on fast food.

I spend a lot of money on my daughter.

Um, I spend money on other people. And then like at the bottom of the list is splurging on my own stuff.

>> Okay. And and what give us an idea? Have you been tracking how much you're spending in all these categories on a monthly basis?

>> Yeah, I use every dollar. So, it's probably about a,000 to,200 a month.

>> Wow. And what's your total income for a month? >> It's about Oh, for a month it's probably

4,800. >> Oh, so ma'am, you don't have the margin to be splurging like this, >> right? No. >> I mean, that's like if you do have a $2,000 a month, that's half your income.

Yeah. >> Do you have debt as well?

>> I do. I have a total of probably 90,000

in debt. >> Whoa. Okay. You know, we're going to break this down. Give us the list. Smallest to largest.

>> Yeah. My medical debt is four a little

over 4,000. Credit cards 9,100.

And then personal loans 51,600.

And my student loans are 20,000.

>> Who are these personal loans to?

So, before I found you guys, I had a debt consolidation loan. Okay.

>> Um, and then we got pipes on our house

back when I was with my ex. Um, and we're still paying that off. And then a car. >> So, if I shoot straight with you, I mean, I I'm wondering if I already heard it um when you were talking about your ex. What do you think's behind this?

Because there's always something behind it. >> What? >> It's trauma. Definitely trauma. Um, and I'm trying to work through that, but I'm trying to figure out how to stop this overspending while I'm working on my trauma history. >> Are you When you say working on the trauma history, you see in a professional? >> I am. Yeah. >> Great. And you feel like you're making progress? >> I think so. Yeah. And I've started a couple groups with some others who've been through the same thing. >> Okay. >> So, in in a I'm thinking through this.

I'm trying to be thoughtful here. If it were a spousal situation and the two were together and one of them had an addiction, I would say this person doesn't need access to the money. Right.

>> Right. I'd say the the other spouse who was able to take care of the money, who can be trusted to take care of the money, needs to help. So, I'm almost wondering if there's someone in your life who can be that person for you to say, "Hey, uh, let me walk alongside you

to make sure because with $4,800 and with a daughter and with $90,000 of debt, we cannot keep spending $2,000. Is

there someone that you can trust to kind of walk with you and kind of

>> not not not take you out of it completely, but for them to be more in charge of having that accountability with you?

>> Yeah. I have a close friend who's actually offered to do that. For me, it's just releasing that control of it.

>> That's hard.

>> But here's what we have to ask ourselves. What if we don't?

>> What if you keep doing this over and over? Yeah. >> Where will you, you know, a year from now, you're going to look up and say, "Okay, am I going to be the same? Am I going to be worse off or I'm going to be better?" >> And right now, if you continue down this path, you're going to be worse off.

>> Yeah. >> So, something has to shake.

>> Yeah. Let's Okay. So, first of all, can I say something? You're amazingly brave to call in on a video call and go, "Hey, I have a spinning addiction." So, I want to tell you something because I think you need to hear it. Like, you're way tougher than than a lot of people. So, I

want you to harness that. Now, I I'm a big fan of therapy. I am no therapist, nor have I played one on TV, nor am I going to try to be one. But I would love to know, what has your therapist said to you in and and that you're comfortable sharing as it relates to uh tools or

some type of uh process that they're

probably giving you when you get to an emotional place. And let's say we're driving home and you know you've got an old pot roast in the fridge, >> but you really want to pull over to your favorite place and get a combo. Tastes good, feels good, all the things. What has been shared, if any, from your therapist on tools or how we're processing because I'm going somewhere with the answer. What what what can you share? >> So, I'm in EMDR therapy and she has we

recently worked on this where >> you kind of go and play from the beginning. Mhm. >> of >> the scenario like I'm driving home and then play through this scenario. What would happen if I were to go drive to this fast food place and get a burger and then drive home and then >> there's that meat in the fridge that's almost ready to expire.

So, kind of walking through it and then reshaping it in your head what it would look like if you were to just drive home and use the food you have.

>> I haven't really used it yet because it was just this last week. Okay, great.

So, when was the last time uh and and so you're being real with this, when was the last time that you spent in one of those categories that you led the call off with that was the addictive stuff?

When was the last time?

>> Uh probably last week.

>> Okay, good. Okay. So, I the reason I went to this is I love what you said, Jade. Think in this situation, you have got to get to a place where while you're

getting the the help and the therapy and you're dealing with the trauma, you've got to find something to replace that

band-aid spend. And you've got to find

something that goes, >> I've got to look at something else. And instead of something that makes me feel good, I would start thinking about something that makes me feel really bad attached to said spending. Right? So, if

I'm tempted to buy something for my daughter because I show her love.

>> And, by the way, I've been guilty of this. And you're smiling. >> Yeah. >> It makes you feel good. See, you feel bad about yourself a lot, don't you?

>> I do. Yeah. >> So, when you buy something for your daughter, it makes you feel really good and the endorphins release and there's dopamine and you're like, "Okay, I feel really crappy. Let me go buy something for my daughter." What I think you're have to start doing is is like, "I feel crappy." Mhm. >> How do I process these emotions? What are the tools my therapist has given me?

That's first. Second, if it were me, Jade, I would go to if I buy something from my daughter that I cannot afford to make myself feel good because she shows me love and happiness, I am further penalizing her and me and putting me further in a hole. And that's what I mean by going to the negative consequence of the addictive spending.

And I think you've got to spend more time there to go, "Oh, the pain of that is far greater than the pain I'm feeling because what somebody did to you and said to you." I What are your thoughts on that? >> I mean, I think that's all valid. I I go to the practicality of it. I go to James Clear and I think about systems and putting those systems in place so you can actually win.

That's why I mentioned what I mentioned earlier. If I were in your shoes, I think it would take an incredible amount of willpower, but I think I would go tonight and I would set up everything on automation and I would say when I get paid on these days, my bills get paid automatically. And you want to know what I would do?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Yep. >> Do you have them close by? >> Because here's the thing.

If you need if you need money, you can walk into a bank, you can withdraw it. That requires a lot more work. It requires a lot more thought. But in that time, that also gives you the time that if you're feeling that way, you can call your buddy up and say, "Hey, remember I told you about this thing?

I need you right now because I'm about to go in here and make a a withdrawal slip so that I can go buy myself a burger so I can go buy my daughter something." And so now we put another level of friction in between you and doing the thing that you know you shouldn't be doing. And I'm no therapist. I can't even pretend to be one, but that's just something on the practical level that could help you today.

>> um, are your credit cards close by?

>> Uh, no, I don't. No, they're across the room. >> Okay. If we were to give you an opportunity, say, to walk across the room and get those cards and bring them back on camera, would you cut them up right now?

>> Um, you wait a second. You called, you called us and you said, "I need help with addictive spending." I think Jade makes a good point. I think we cut them up. Now, >> you give yourself a certain amount of money for groceries. Let your buddy hold it. >> You in or not? We're not going to force it. You in or not? You want freedom?

>> So, my my debit cards to my bank account. >> Not your debit. Your credit cards. You want to cut them up?

>> Oh, I already cut out the credit cards.

>> She cut them up. >> I would have let the debit ones go, too.

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right, that was uh that was real real.

>> Yes. >> You know, like when you talk to somebody like Brienne who's dealing with a spinning addiction, owns it, that she's had some past trauma, a single mama, I mean, that's as real as it gets >> and that's tough stuff. And uh you know, you you were sharing with me, you know, you were sharing with her. I I think for her, for anybody that's in those shoes, I thought you had a really great here's what I would do step by step, and I wanted you to share that cuz I think it's really good.

I mean, you did with her, but I'd love for you to to really re recap that. Well, it's definitely probably the most extreme piece of advice I've given, but she seemed like she was in in an extreme situation.

know, whatever her bills are, uh, rent, car, insurance, so that they come out of the account automatically when she knows she's paid. And I would get with a friend, an accountability friend, and say, "Hey, I don't go to the bank to withdraw money unless you're with me, and I can go to withdraw money for groceries, and I can withdraw money for gas, and then you go with me to the grocery store, and you go with me to the gas station." And that is that's just a practical thing because we said that can because if it's a a spousal situation, we can give the money to the other spouse to handle and we can lock oursel out of it.

She has to find a way and a system to lock herself out to keep her safe until she can work through the trauma with her her counselor. So, >> and uh by the way, I mean the allnew Every Dollar app uh and it's really no longer it's not an app.

this show.

>> 20X. In other words, it's a digital

coach. >> Yeah, it is. >> And you answer the questions, you dive into it, it's going to send you specific content. You get an actual free 10-minute coaching call with one of our actual coaches. >> Um I if you're in the shoes of Brienne or anybody that's going, "Hey, I need to get control of my money." I'm telling you, every dollar is the play. Um

>> the average person, by the way, is finding thousands of dollars in margin in the just first 15 minutes. By the way, if you take 15 minutes and answer questions honestly, what you get in return is a digital coach walking alongside of you. It is so fantastic.

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getting it in the app store or Google Play. Josh is up in Tampa, Florida.

Josh, how can we help today?

>> Hey, thank you guys so much for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

>> Yeah, you bet. What's happening in your world? >> So, me and my wife, um, we rent

currently and we're we're contemplating whether we should buy a home or not. Uh, but we do have some debt that we've been knocking out. We've been following the baby steps and have every dollar. We've been really attacking it since about February. Um, but total debt we have

between everything is $73,000.

And so we bring home together um bring

home about $8,600 per month. And after

bills and everything is paid for, um, we're doing pretty good. We have about $1,500 a month left over, which is what we've been doing, attacking >> the the credit card debt we I mean, we've already paid five off since February. So, we just really just >> um you know, got our our savings and everything um good to go through baby step one. What?

>> So, really, my question is is should we just keep attacking the debt? Our rent is relatively cheap. What is it? >> Um 850.

>> 850. So, what's the rest of this money going on? Minimums because 88 8,600 is a lot of money. It's just you and your wife, right?

No, we have a four-year-old and then we have a baby on the way, actually.

>> Oh, congrats. >> So, give me like 850 is super cheap.

Where where is the rest of this 8,600 going towards? Because usually the big ones are rent, daycare, insurance. Um,

so where where is yours? Is it car payments?

>> Yeah. So, we so my wife's car we have about 9,000 on. Okay. My truck we just got over the summer uh to cuz we knew we were my car was small so we knew we had to get something bigger now.

>> And what's the payment on that? >> I know >> uh 710. >> Okay, there's some of it. What do you owe on it?

>> Uh 42,000. >> Listen, my guy, you already know what I'm going to say.

>> I do. Drum roll.

>> Uh you got to sell the truck, my guy.

You got to >> you got to let it go. I think you better cut it loose. Let it go. >> You got to cut it loose. Um, and I'm serious, by the way. I was making jokes, but listen, $710, I I applaud you for

putting $1,500 of margin on, but when I hear 8,600, I'm thinking it's going to be a lot bigger of a shovel than that.

>> Um, so the 710, what if you

>> I don't know if you've looked, but what could you get for that truck? Kelly Blue Book private sale.

>> Uh, I I I haven't looked. I would guess around 38,000. >> 38. Okay. So, if I'm you, would you

rather have $4,000 of debt >> or $42,000 of debt?

>> Right. True.

>> So, I think that's the play. Now, you've got a little bit of of time. You're you're not pressed for time. I don't think you need to go get a loan for it. I think you can save up the difference.

Uh because I think you do have more margin than you think. We're going to give you every dollar if you don't already have it. >> Do you have it? >> Yeah, we do have every dollar. We do. We do have every dollar. >> Okay. go through that budget and crunch those numbers because I think you have more margin than 1,500. Um because I

want you to save up $4,000 really fast

>> to clear this. Can I jump in on this one? >> Yes, Ken. >> She's right. But I wonder if you could earn $4,000.

>> You're a young guy. You got some skills.

>> Um >> yeah, I've been doing Door Dash on the side randomly, you know.

>> No, we don't do Door Dash randomly.

Sorry. I was all fired up and then you stepped into that one. You've got limited time. Correct.

>> Correct. >> And we need Have you ever heard the old phrase, time is money?

>> Right. >> So, we don't And listen, I'm not knocking Door Dash, but in your situation, I believe you can make a whole lot more money than you're making for the time you're exchanging. Do you agree with that?

>> Sure. Yeah. >> All right. What skill sets do you have? Let's get real. >> What skill sets do you have, experience do you have in the workforce?

>> Listen. Um well I'm a so I'm a Navy veteran and then um so my job in the

military I actually do um I'm a minister so we that's that's what I do and then my wife is a banker. >> Okay. >> Um and then >> you got any trade skills? You got any you know u you know where you can sling a hammer or do anything like that? uh renovation work. If you can't, can you work in a manufacturing situation and work the crazy shifts and make really good money an hour slinging boxes around? You get my point?

>> Absolutely. >> In other words, what can you do in your area that'll make you the max amount of money to get back into where Jade's talking about? I want you saving. She's right. But what if we could also What if Jade we could save four and make four?

>> Back to you. I love that because now you're going to have the cash to buy something >> that's older, much less expensive, way

more miles, right? But it's just a a band-aid until you can get the rest of this debt paid off. Then you can move up in car. Now, here, let let me tell you what's going to happen. >> You're going to get off this call and what we have said to you is really going to sink in and you're going to say, "Hold on. They told me to sell my truck.

I just got this truck. Wait a minute.

They're telling me to work extra hours. I have a pregnant wife." And you're going to question whether or not the

first thing you called in, which is you want to be out of debt. You're going to question of if the methodology is worth

the result. That's what you're going to question. That's what your emotions are going to cause you to do when you go home. Then you're going to tell your wife about it and she's going to add hers to the mix. >> And you're going to have to sift through all that. And what I'm asking you to remember is what I want you to sort

through what you want now, which is you want to keep your car and you want to be home. But I want you to compare that with what you want most. So you need to think about that tonight. What do you want most?

Is it the way the house feels when you bring the newborn baby home? Is it how it's going to feel to be able to sit down with your wife and the debt not come up in the conversation and cause another fight? Right? These are the things that you need to think through because what we're asking you to do is not any small little thing, >> right?

>> Fair enough. But you're also talking to two people who have done the things that we're we are not Ken and I are not going to tell you to do anything we haven't done ourselves. >> Facts.

>> So, at the beginning of the year, yes.

on once we found you guys and started doing, you know, the baby steps and every dollar and then, you know, we cut out a lot of I mean, we found that, >> you know, 1,500 a month left over basically. >> I'm going to tell you something. When you get off the call, like she said, you're going to feel a range of emotions. Can I give him I know it's a it's before it comes out. Let's give him a copy of What No One Tells You About Money. It's the emotional playbook here.

It's so needed for you, my friend, cuz she's right. what we told you to do is not fun. Uh, so hang on the line. We're

going to give you a copy. It's not even out yet. We're going to give it to you because you need this book. So Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money, available ramiesolutions.com/store.

Go pre-order it now.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show coming to you from the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited to have you with us.

The phone number to jump in so we can help out isle8255225.88255225.

Allan is up in Dallas, Texas. Allan, how can we help today?

Yeah, thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. >> My girlfriend and I are in our 60s. We

are financially independent and we're discussing marriage and this would be the second marriage for both of us.

>> Mhm. >> And I've heard numerous times on your program there is no his or hers in marriage is just ours. >> Yes. of our situation I think may be

have extenduating circumstances and I am needing help processing those variables before she and I sit down and discuss it. >> Okay. Well, so let's start with these extenduating circumstances. I doubt we're going to change our opinion, but hey, give us a shot. What are these

extinguating things where you go, I don't know, Ken, we may be the one case where we keep everything separate.

>> Sure. Well, okay. We each have a trust

and those trusts are set up for our estates, our children, our grandchildren. >> Okay. >> And we would have a prenup to protect them in the event one of us pass. It's we're we're both Christians. We're faith-based marriage. We we volunteer.

We work for our church. >> Sure. >> So, the prenup's not because we might get divorced. It's what happens when one of us passes. >> Sure. >> Okay. We each own our homes outright and

we'll keep both of them, but we'll live in hers.

And if she passed before I did, I would

be able to stay in that house um and as long as I wish, but then it would go to her children. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, what I think about is

home improvements.

Let's say, well, if we do home improvements, it's it's her house. I

benefit because I live there.

>> But in my opinion, that's something that she would pay for.

>> And if we bought one of us bought a new vehicle, well, whomever wanted that vehicle would be the one to pay for it.

>> Mhm. >> Um, >> so you're keeping it separate. >> I see is >> Yes. Keeping those separate. Well, if you keep that separate, you are keep let's be honest, like I I do think if

you keep things like buying cars

separate, if you keep things like doing home renovations separate, I mean, your money is separate. I I I don't mind the fact of you guys protecting the trust through a prenup. I It's almost like the stuff that was in the past, I'm okay with it being protected and having that protection around it. But the things that are you you're doing going forward, I'm okay with that being together because if you buy a new car, is that in the trust? No. That's that's you guys

living your current life together. And so you guys together get to decide who you know what will happen to this if either of us passes? That sort of thing.

And you know, with the houses, I might be inclined for you guys to do something

where you don't keep both of those homes and you buy something together and start your life together because the more you keep things separate and try to keep your previous life alive to a certain extent, it's going to be very messy for you. What's the benefit of keeping both of your old homes versus selling them,

taking the money together, and buying something you really like together and then willing it that it's split equally amongst your heirs?

>> She really loves her home. Like, she

loves her home. And I am not overly

attached to mine. I would actually keep mine um my home is near my kids

>> and so I would keep it as an overflow house. Um I might stay there some, we

might stay there some when I have other kids come in from out of town. It would just it would be kind of just for my family's use. >> Yeah, I I I slightly different uh I I

don't mind Jade's suggestion, but I'm not I'm I wasn't going to make any changes on the house thing. I'm with you, Jade, 100%. And I think the trusts are what they are. I think the houses

>> uh again uh it's it's a sticking point

because your your wife to be we're going to assume that you guys get married or your girlfriend that house she's got in the will. It's going to the kids. They've got separate kids. I get that.

Uh but I would say to you answer your question. >> Um I do think your finances need to be combined. I agree with you. I just I don't really care about the houses. is the house situation and the trust I'd say is kind of excluded, but I agree with Jade 100% and I don't think we change our tune. Unless unless uh you

have some sort of trust issue with her in combining finances, which you should get married anyway. >> He's wondering about making upgrades to her house. >> I know I'm getting there. I think that I'm with you.

I agreed with you that it's whether it's her house from the past or not. If they're living there, >> it's not the uh renovation for the new bathroom comes out of her account. No, it's our account. I think you guys should combine checking and savings accounts.

You are married. You're doing life together. The trust and the houses being >> staying where they are. Totally fine.

>> If he puts if he puts money into that house, but it's all aired to her kids, what does that mean for him?

But I'm saying I agree with you. But that's the part it's that's going to be very hard to navigate because then you're going to have to every year >> do some sort of thing to the trust where you're saying uh you know here's the value of the house but this much is going over to you know his side of the family. I'm telling you >> and that and that wouldn't happen.

>> That's why >> I would think >> so here's here's devil's advocate.

>> Okay. >> I'm living in this house for free, >> right? She's not going to charge me to live there. you're married to her and that that hold on let me stop because that is the crux of all of this as long as this persists that will be the the the the language >> and you've got to be able to move past that and the only way to move past that is to say okay what was in the past is in the past and sometimes when we enter into a relationship there are sacrifices that we make for that person that's just part of it uh when Sam and I got married I moved from where I was living and I moved in with him I changed my I sacrificed certain things about my life.

He sacrificed certain things about his for us to come together.

It's just harder because you're 60 and you're in your life and you're in your ways and there's things that you've grown accustomed to. And I'm not I I get it. Um, but if you truly want to make

this simpler for yourselves and get the language of we, you've got to let go of what was mine. That's all I'm saying.

>> I agree. >> Yeah. I listen and by the way, you do what you want to do. You called us. So keep in mind when you call us and and you push back on something that we believe we're going to push back again.

And again, we're all friends. Uh you're very wise. You guys are in great financial situation. I just think you're overthinking this. And if I was in my 60s and I was in your situation and I had found another love >> and this was my opportunity, I would not be calling me asking the questions that you're asking. I'd be like, "Babe, let's live it up. Uh, let's go." You know?

>> I don't know. I don't know. I'd be like, "Well, what's going to happen when I put $50,000 into this renovation?"

I'd be wondering, too. >> Yeah. But you're like contradicting yourself. >> No, because it's her house. It's his house. If I If you're like, "Babe, I'm ready to go, but we move into your house and all my money spent renovating your house, that's going to go to your area." >> How much money you going to spend on this woman in a in a year just cuz you love her? >> How much? $100,000.

>> Yeah, get over the freaking kitchen renovations, man. >> Listen, I'm looking across the glass and Will Rudder is right on with me. He knows. He knows what's up.

>> But you're marrying her. The h >> and exactly that's >> she wants a kitchen. It's called happy wife, happy life. >> Then I my go buy a house where we both love the kitchen >> together. >> You're spending more of his money. I'm fine with that, too. >> You know what I'm I get where you're at, but I mean the way he's asking it, I'm just like, we're worrying about stuff that quite frankly in your 60s, getting married a second time, you shouldn't be worried about

All

right, Jade, I'm going to tell you something you already know, but everybody needs insurance.

>> See, you knew that. >> I did know. Yes. >> Uh but uh it can be a little bit sticky.

It's not fun. Let's be honest, most of the time trying to find out, you know, who's looking to make a buck versus an agent who knows their stuff and they got your best interest in mind. Uh, but that's why you need a Ramsay trusted insurance pro because you never have to deal with all the sleazy gross stuff.

Uh, cuz Ramsay has vetted these fine folks and they care about what they're doing. They care about you. They have the heart of a teacher. They have your best interest in mind.

And so go to ramseysolutions.com/coage to find the type of insurance you're looking for because keep in mind, you're trying to win with money. Some of you aren't covered enough. And so if something bad were to happen, it could really knock you off the path. Or some of you are overinsured and you could use a little bit of money back in that every dollar budget >> to get ahead.

Stephen is up in Montgomery, Alabama.

Alabama rather. Stephen, how can we help?

Yeah. So, mine um is kind of a two-part

question, I guess. I uh me and my wife, we are looking to purchase land and build a house. Uh but I want to be debtree before doing so. Um I'm self-employed and so I'm trying to figure out my savings um that I currently have, how much of that can I put toward my debt to not drop my savings too low since I am self-employed.

Um, and so trying to figure that out be

and also trying to figure out how do I figure out when it is time to buy the land and build the house what I can afford with what I make if that makes sense cuz you know trying to get out of the debt as quick as possible helps me get to that point. Do you have so when you talk about your savings um as a self-employed person do you have money set aside in your business as retained earnings and then you have a personal savings set aside or how is it >> how's it arranged? >> Yeah.

So there's a little bit. Yeah.

>> Okay. I would keep what's in the business in the business. Um I I wouldn't pull that out. Um how much is it? Just curious.

Um and so in the personal uh combined is

60. So in the personal is 50 and then the uh in the personal is 50 and then 10 in the in the business. >> Okay. Yeah. What kind of business is it?

>> That's what that look like.

>> Um so it's um do roofing.

>> Okay. Yeah. I'm going to go ahead and keep that 10,000 there. I think I'm I'm not sure how your business runs, but my guess is it's there for a reason. Um and

you want to keep being able to run.

>> Say I guess is Yeah. Yeah. So I own I own the business. So there's obviously in >> in that business there's a lot more money than what's in I should have specified that basically that pays my corporation. So my corporation is what I'm talking about. But in the actual business because I own it with a partner there's a lot more money in that. So that business pays my corporation if that makes sense. >> Got you. Um >> I would keep that separate for now.

>> Okay. >> Because it seems like it's going to be cleaner for you. But you've got $50,000 saved. That's your money. Let's talk about that. Um the way the baby steps work, which is the framework that we're always going to teach people how to handle their money through, >> uh is the first thing you need to do after setting aside $1,000 just as a

basic, you know, barrier between you and

life. The next thing we do is we take all the money we can find and we throw it at our debt. That includes savings, income, selling things, selling off stocks, crypto, that sort of thing.

Basically, everything's at stake except your retirement for the most part, right, Ken? Y >> um and of course you don't have to sell your house, but do you see what I'm saying? So for you, yeah, I would keep $1,000 aside and I would take 49 and I would throw it at >> whatever debt you have. How much debt do you have?

>> Um we just had a baby, so I don't know

what that amount is. Without that, we're looking at 5055. It's for two vehicles

and some back tax stuff from when I was a teenager. Basically, >> tell us about those vehicles. What do you owe on each?

>> So, I owe 15 on one, 30 on the other.

>> What are they worth?

>> Um, truck that's I owe 15 on and it's

basically my work vehicle is probably worth 20 and the SUV um is worth

basically what what I I want it.

>> Okay. So, I would be looking to get out of that SUV today >> instantly. And then I would take maybe

$8,000 of your money that you have saved and buy something in cash. >> I agree. And let me let me play the math on the back end of that advice. She's right. What is that SUV payment right now >> monthly? >> Uh 55 550 somewhere's around there.

>> Okay. So if you do the math what Jade told you, so she's giving you an $8,000 car is not going to be exciting, but it is going to be functional and it helps get you going on this. And now, not only that, you've got you freed up another $500 a month to throw at debt.

>> Mhm. >> That's why that's a beautiful recommendation. >> And you're not going to have to now drill down on your savings as much as you thought because now you can reach over, you can pay off the $15,000 car.

>> And then what's that leave you with?

Another 15 somewhere.

>> What else did you have?

>> Two cars. >> Yeah. So, there's the Yeah, there's the two cars, which is 1315. And then there is 9,000 in back taxes.

>> Okay. Okay. And then you can reach over and you can pay off the back taxes.

>> Correct. Yeah. >> What do you think about that? >> So even with So I don't mind that at all. I My worry was being self-employed if work gets slow or something happens.

>> Well, you'll still have >> I mean, you know, >> you'll still have you will only have to pull 24,000 uh actually plus the eight. I forgot about that. So, you'll only be pulling 32 uh from the 55,000 that you have saved.

>> Okay. >> Oh, I'm sorry. From the 50 that I'm sorry, I had it written down backwards.

So, you'll pull 32 from the 50 that you have saved. So, that leaves you with a little bit.

>> Yeah. >> What do you pay yourself? What do you pay yourself a month?

>> Um, so that's a long story, but um it's

uh right now about 10.

>> All right. I I say about 10 10 to 15 is is is what

I get per month. >> So but see that urgency to get that back up because that's what you're worried about. Something were to happen. You're going I got to get paid. >> Yeah. >> But you have bigger problems. Correct.

>> Right. >> So it's like what happens when somebody gets advice like this? They go well let me think of the absolute worst case scenario and that's why I don't want to pay off my debt. But here's the deal. If the worst case scenario happens, number one, >> you got a bigger problem than than the fact that you paid off the debt. You got a problem with your business. But but what's nice is if something were to happen, you can scrap by a whole lot

better longer if you don't have all this debt. >> Yeah. >> So I just want to make sure you see the entire picture here. >> Well, you're sitting in a better situation. >> That makes sense >> to to if if the if you did what I told you to do today and tomorrow and then

Monday came and the worst happens, you would have $18,000 of emergency fund.

You would have 10,000 reserved in your part of the corporation. You would have no debt. That's pretty awesome.

>> Yeah. No, that makes that makes absolute sense. >> So, you wouldn't have to worry about making truck payments and car payments.

You wouldn't have to worry about the IRS breathing down your neck to get that money. >> I can't believe how nonchalant you are about your back taxes from when you were a teenager. I got to tell you, I heard that and and and man, I broke out. I I

need a benadryil on the break. >> Way higher. >> Huh? >> It was way higher. Way higher. I don't care. It's still around. That That sucker's got mold on it. It's been around so long. >> So, the question America wants to know is are you going to do it?

>> Which part of it will you do and which part of it won't you do? You can be honest. Tell us. >> Yeah. We won't get hurt. >> No. So, I'm Well, no. I'm going to So, the one that worries I say worry, it doesn't worry me. Is we have to find a vehicle that we have four kids. So, I

just got >> Oh, Listen, not a problem at all. Don't give me the four kids won't fit in a standard SUV because they will.

And hear me when I say not that. I'm talking about reliable that kind of worries about but still hear me when I say if you had called in and you didn't have $50,000 saved. I might be uh more

of a stickler about this, but you've got a little bit of money saved. If you want to spend $10,000, it's not the end of the world. The point is you're buying it in cash. Do you see what I'm saying?

I just bought my kid a couple years ago a $12,000 SUV and that thing's running like a top and you could put four kids in there. In fact, I've seen him with five teenage boys in there. So, I do this all the time on the show. Cracks James up, our fearless leader.

I get online minivan.

>> Yeah, there you go. You get get what you need. But my point is the point here is to get rid of the debt and to buy vehicles from here on forward in cash.

That's the point. And you get to decide how much of this you're going to keep as your emergency fund. And then you can quickly stack it up to 3 to 6 months of expenses. And you're going to be sitting pretty if you do that. >> Speaking of sitting pretty, I was laughing listening to him cuz when I was a kid, >> we would be on long road trips and I would take a nap in the back windshield.

That's how our parents did not care about seat belts. Did you I literally would lay in the back. You know what I'm talking about. Oh yeah. No big deal.

>> Just back at nice warm place to take a nap.

All right, in the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions on the DebtFree stage, I see two fantastic looking people over there.

We've got Thomas and Amy on the Debtree stage. I guess you're here to do a debtree scream. Is that right?

>> We are. >> Yes, we are. >> All right. Where y'all from?

>> Washington Courthouse, Ohio. Just about an hour south of Columbus.

>> An hour south of Columbus. Okay.

Fantastic. All right. Well, give us the numbers. How much debt did you pay off?

>> $138,661.

>> Wow. How long did that take?

>> Five years. >> Five years. Okay. And uh what's your

range of income during that time?

>> We started out at 101,000 and we ended last year at 143,000. I

think we're going to beat that this year. >> Oh, good. What do you guys do for a living? >> Um I'm a regional coordinator for a

Christian a international Christian ministry. Um a fantastic one, Samaritan's Purse. >> Oh, sure, sure, sure. I've traveled with I've gone on trips with them uh in my past life uh before Ramsay the work I did. So, love the organization.

>> Awesome. Yeah. And you >> I'm a correctional officer. >> Okay. You You have that look and vibe.

>> Until you smiled, I was a little nervous talking to you. I'm not going to lie to you. Did you get that vibe from him?

>> Uh I don't know. I feel like it was more than meets the eye.

>> I love it. Okay. >> Now, what now? What do you attribute the uh the growth in income um over that time?

>> Well, we've done a little bit of everything. Um, we gave plasma for a while until we got a little concerned about our health and um, I worked a second job. I would go in and work from 4:00 to 7:00 and then go change clothes and go to my real job. Um, >> Wow.

>> Tom Door Dash for a while and lots and lots of overtime. That's what he's doing right now.

>> Yes. >> Fantastic. >> Well, what kind of debt was the 138,000?

>> A lot of everything. Um, we had a couple of car loans. Um, we had credit cards, a

parent plus loan. Um, some medical bills, and just a a managerie.

>> Wow. So, what was the point that you It is. What was the point that you looked at it and said, "Something needs to change here?" Well, um, actually 10 or

11 years ago, um, one of my co-workers

in one of my previous lives, uh, had given me one of Dave's books to read >> and I read it and thought, "This is really great." And gave the book back to her and went on about my life, >> which wasn't very effective. So, um, and

then I joined Samaritan's Purse and one of the fantastic benefits that they offer is Smart Dollar. Oh, great. And so

I joined Smart Dollar and started utilizing everything, watched lots of videos and still we were kind of is. But then 2020 happened and while Tom was

considered essential um I thankfully um

was blessed not to lose my job. We worked um our tails off but did it remotely at home for a few months. But it made me realize that um something had

to change like because it could have been very easy that that we were one of those people that that lost their jobs.

So yeah, >> we kind of um got started there and that's when Tom really got on board. Um

>> yeah, I was ish

>> he was happy. He was happy for me to be the nerd and and let me do all of the things that I love. >> Financial guru, >> all the details. So, well, not a guru or we wouldn't have bid in $138,000 worth of debt.

>> Well, it's interesting you say this because I I love that you mentioned smart dollar. Smart dollar obviously is is everything we teach our program for organizations and it goes through as a benefit through HR and all that. So, when you start to experience that and you come home from work >> and you start telling them, hey, there's this plan.

You're pretty fired up, I'm guessing. Is that correct? >> Oh, yeah. >> And then Tom, I mean, you you had to be going, what? So, what was the hardest part for you uh to to to get on board

with?

>> Um, I just I didn't really

pay attention. I just was like thinking it didn't really start me anything to me until I started getting closer to retirement. >> And for me, it was about, you know, our kids >> and they they played sports and we was all involved in that growing up. And >> I just thought debt was just what it was, you know, right?

you just you lived with it and you did the best you can with it. >> But then as the more we went on to it, she was talking in my ear and getting me to watch some of the some of the things on the on the you know the >> the videos >> the videos and stuff like that. So then I started watch the videos but he was forced to watch them >> and about two years ago you know I started getting able to work a little bit more overtime. So then I started putting in the time and >> really getting involved.

Yeah. Love that. >> That's awesome. I love that.

So, what would you tell somebody who's kind of on the fence who says, "Uh, I've read the book, but I put it back on the shelf, or I have the benefit available to me, but I don't need that today." Well, the program works, but you have to work the program for it to work.

>> Communication. >> Yeah. Doesn't work. So, um, just being intentional and doing what you need to, taking the next step, doing the next thing. My problem is that I'm too detail

oriented and I wanted all the things to happen. I could see the end, but I wanted to like pull it this way and make it go quicker. Um, so just knowing that

there is timing and God's timing, you'll get it done. You just need to be intentional about what you're doing. But yeah, definitely communication and making sure that you guys are walking in

the same direction because if you're fighting your partner, it's never going to work. >> That's right. You gota you got to fight the thing that's really the enemy.

>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

>> What kind of support system did you guys have? >> Um each other and um our two sons, our

two um sons actually we we had one in u

a senior in high school in 2020 and a senior in college in 2020. We didn't think that through when we had children, eight years of college, but we were committed to um cash flow as much of that as we could. Um, and they are both

on plans. So, they they were we talked to them about it all the time and they're working their own plans right now. So, >> I love that. >> And our grandparent, their kids' grandparents, they took care of them whenever we were working or stuff like that.

They helped out along >> they helped out whenever sometimes whenever you know you need that little extra, >> you know, and you just you can't make the ends meet. Sometimes they help out there. So, >> yeah. >> I love that.

The hardest part for each of you, tell me. I want people to hear the real real.

>> that it took five years?

>> Five years was a long time. >> I wanted it done, >> especially for you checking all the boxes. >> Yeah, I'm a little obsessive about it. I I check my every dollar every day, multiple times a day. I wanted I knew when I hit that send button on um paying a debt, I wanted it to hit my bank so I could pull it over into the right category. And that was hard for me is is

the patience part of it. But I think that was a a lesson that God was giving me. Tom for you hardest part >> just getting involved just actually you know understanding that I needed to put out a you know to get rid of the debt so

once I retire once we retire we can do the things that you know we plan to do with our children and now the grandchild our little grandchild he's >> fun >> amazing you know you want to spend time with him and so now >> be able to do the things that you want to do >> yeah and that was what I was going to ask how old are you guys >> I'm 55 >> okay >> 54 >> 55 54 And so now on the other side of this, where are your heads and hearts about the future knowing that you've made it through this and reset your financial future?

>> Well, um, Tom's looking forward to retirement, obviously. Um, >> I can retire in March, right?

>> Next year. >> Oh, the state of Ohio says he can retire in March. He can't retire in

>> Amy said no. >> Amy's made that perfectly clear. Yeah.

>> No. Um, I plan to be with Samaritans Purse for as long as God willing. So, um, it'll be a few years for me. Um, but we we are looking at we did our our

threemonth emergency fund because we want to pay off our house and then we'll back fill that other three months, but we're not slowing down. We're not taking our foot off the gas. >> You guys are an inspiration to a lot of people. It's possible.

>> Uh, so here we go. Thomas and Amy from

Columbus, Ohio area. actually Washington courthouse to be specific. They paid off $138,661 in 5 years, making 101 to 143,000.

Congratulations. You guys take it away.

Let's hear your debtree scream.

>> Ready? >> 3 2 1 WE'RE DEBTREE.

>> OH, there it is.

>> I think we got the real Thomas. Thomas had it all very kept buttoned up. That was the correction >> correction officer. Yeah, it was like this is what happens if you do something stupid around Thomas.

>> Don't give him a night stick.

>> Oh >> no, Siri. Uh-uh. Hey, that is so

awesome, folks. It can be done. They did it. We're cheering all of you on as well. Keep it up.

Our

scripture. of the day comes from Isaiah 58:11. The Lord will guide you always.

He will satisfy your needs in a sunscorched land and will strengthen your frame. You will be well, you will, excuse me, you will be like a well-watered garden, like a spring whose

waters never fail. And our quote of the day from L. David Marquette, leadership is a choice, not a position. I got to tell you, I got a little distracted. Can I confess something to you? >> I got distracted, too. Was it the scripture? >> It was. >> Were you talking thinking about moisture? No, it was about the it will strengthen your frame. And you know, you know where this comes from.

>> Gohead. >> My wife and daughter Josie, you know them well. >> Yes, I do. >> They love Dancing with the Stars.

>> Okay. >> And I have to deal with that.

>> Yeah, you do. >> I don't watch it, but I I frequent the kitchen living room. You've been in our home. >> And they're always talking about the judge. The one judge who I I don't want to insult anybody, but I can't stand one of the judges. >> Okay. Okay. And >> he's always carrying on about their frame. >> And so here I am trying to do my job and

read the scripture. And it says, "And I will strengthen your frame." And I want to confess to everybody I got his judge from Dancing with the Stars carrying on about your frame.

>> That's funny. I was opposite. I'm reading the part. Toss it over here where he says, "You'll be a wellwaterched or something." >> Yeah. You'll be a well-watered garden, a spring whose waters. And I'm thinking about the conversation we had about how you're laughing at me because I always make Sam put lotion on him to be moisturized. >> I wasn't gonna bring this up. This is a whole separate subject. Uh Kelly and James, we had dinner with uh uh Jade and

Sam recently and it was a 45minute

section of our dinner where Jade and Sam

walk through their preedtime

lotion routine. And poor Sam has no

choice in all of this. >> I just want him to be a wellwatered garden. >> He is. And she straight up said, "I'm going to look great when I'm old. He has to as well." And the routine that Sam has to go through is nothing short of punishment. >> He has a skin care routine his >> that you gave him and forced upon him.

>> And you want to know what? When he's 80 and goes like this, the skin is not going to flake off. Ken, >> he's not going to make it that far. >> Would you be able to say that? >> No. >> No. And I don't want to. the the amount of life he is not living that he spends on lotion. It's I don't know it's worth the tradeoff, >> but he looks good. Come on. He's a handsome man. >> He's sexy. Okay, that's what I thought.

>> He's a handsome man. Uh Sharon in Buffalo. Sharon, how can we help?

>> Good afternoon, Jane and Candy. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Uh so my husband and I have been married

12 years. Early on in the marriage, we were debtree. Um but then he took on credit card debt. So, our finance were finances were separate. They've been separate for quite some time. >> Oh, no. >> Uh, three days ago, I found out that he

had been keeping a secret for 3 years.

>> Uhoh. >> That he co-signed on an auto loan with a

coworker that I have never met to this day. >> Oh my goodness.

>> And Yeah. And that coworker who he

doesn't even work with him anymore is struggling with addiction. Uh so they are not making their payments and

>> he he finally told me uh my husband

there a tail between his legs but uh >> Wow. >> You know it's very well had you talked to me I would have told you not to do it. >> Sure. >> And um and here we are. So uh right now

I I've never seen this vehicle. My understanding is that it's probably trashed and it probably smells like cigarette smoke. So, I have no interest in taking it over. >> How long ago was it? >> Um, uh, the that the loan was taken.

>> Yeah. >> Uh, three years ago. >> Oh gosh. >> Do we have any idea on the numbers? In other words, what's owed on it versus what it's worth?

>> Well, one day my husband tells me 20,000, the next day he says 21,000.

Honey, really and truly, how much is this? I don't know. Um, they think that if it were to go to auction, I I have no experience with with repo. I I I don't

know how any of that works, um, that they think they would get $5,000 for it

at auction.

>> So, it's in bad shape.

>> Now, did you say >> Yeah. >> Did you say that you've already separated finances?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> But we still we we both own a home and we would love to try to recombine.

>> Mhm. um he has made an effort because

the issues that made us split our finances in the first place that almost split us. >> Um it was like okay let's split our finances and I continue to try to live my life debtree but every time I try to get ahead I feel like I'm I I love him dearly but he's a bit too much of a nice guy making the wrong decisions. Who's who's who's facilitating >> the conversation with you guys that's helping you see okay here's here's what

caused the split here's what must be true for you guys to come back together here like who is there a counselor helping you with this

>> there needs to be >> I think so too >> I think so too because what I'm hearing

um on your end is a woman who's almost

done

That's what I'm hearing. >> I've been there before. I I but I I know

that I I love him very very much.

>> Uh >> but he's he he he it's just like again and again and again and again, right?

>> Yeah. And there's that part of me that feels stupid because it's like, okay, as much as this hurts, he's probably going to do it again.

>> Yeah. You need you need somebody to get in between that because um this has been

a wild ride for you. And I I I mean I'm

I'm I'm not a marriage counselor. I can't help you with that. I can look at these numbers, but I don't think it's going to solve the problem here today.

>> I mean, he is he is I'm assuming fully aware of how this makes you feel and

what this does to your relationship.

Correct. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, do you think he's in a situation and again I don't I want to be very careful the word I use here uh but

is this a character issue only or is

this he's got some type of trauma, he's got some type of addiction or something in his world to where he needs some extra help. It's not just him deciding to act like an adult.

>> I'm just curious your take.

>> I I think it's a bit character. I think it's relevant to something tragic that happened on the job >> with this worker that many years ago.

>> Yeah. >> Um even still though it regardless of that it it is a pattern. That's right.

Sometimes I describe it like if we were, you know, to go to a store and he held the door open for somebody, I might be the third person he let in, but then he's also going to stand there and continue to hold the door open for 80 people and I'm going to be standing there like, "Okay, honey, can can we go?" >> So, is it an overage of like he's just trying to help everybody too much? Is that what he's spending this money on? A crazy generosity. >> So, he's a unhealthy pleaser.

>> Yeah. >> Got it. Got it. Okay, that's insightful, but not for you, weirdly enough.

>> You know, but I I uh and you know what?

I hate to say it this way, but there is a silver lining there.

>> He just needs to figure out the person he actually needs to please a little bit more is you. >> Yeah. Um >> Oh, thank you. >> Yeah. And uh not in an unhealthy way u because he's not healthy, >> but prioritizing you and what you think and what you want. And >> is he willing to do therapy?

>> Yeah. So, well, the uh especially the financial piece of it because I'm not going to lie, I did propose this to AI and said, "What do I do?" But I'm >> You don't talk to freaking artificial intelligence.

>> You guys need a So, are you in a church?

Are you in some type of community where you can talk to people and go, I need three or four really great legitimate recommendations on a therapist?

>> Um, I maybe I >> No, you're not. So, you need to you need to figure out who you know that has some credibility uh that you trust, their judgment that they've been to a therapist. We're going to have to dig a little bit and uncover. Let's just not let's just go to the web and find a local therapist. >> But I think he's got to commit to this.

You have to say to him, "Never again. If you want to be in this marriage, we have to get this solved. We have to heal together. We both got our junk. Some of us did it to the other. Whatever.

There's no scorekeeping here. We got to get healthy. And if we can get healthy,

there's a great chance that the money stuff on his end gets healthy. >> Yeah. So, regarding the situation, I mean, the best thing that you're going to be able to do here is he needs to get his hands on the records to find out what is owed on this vehicle. And you guys need to start stacking up some cash so that when the time comes, whether it goes to auction or not, there is going to be a deficit for you to pay and you're going to be on the hook for it.

And that's unfortunate, but it's the way it is. >> Thank you for the call. But you got to fight for this. This is a fight for your marriage, then the finances. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace in Christ Jesus.

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## 21. Building Wealth Requires a Long-Term Investing Mindset | June 2, 2026


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:29:24 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washaw, number one bestselling author. Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open

phones here at88255225.

That's a free call and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Leonard is in Sacramento. Hey Leonard, how are you?

>> Doing good. How are you guys today?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So uh long story short, me and my wife

have uh together about $86,000 in debt.

We make about 200,000 a year. And our

current house and situation where we're living has rendered us paycheck to pay paycheck every single month. We have no money in savings. We have no dispensable money whatsoever.

>> Okay. And um what is the uh what's your

house payment?

>> So we pay rent. Um our house is 3,300 a

month. >> Okay. and and all of our other

>> Go ahead.

>> Uh all of our other like utility bills

accumulate up to about an additional uh

between 4 to 600. So we're paying about

4,000 alone in just rent and utilities.

>> What's the uh what's the uh 86,000 in debt?

Um, so we got a little marriage happy and got into a truck payment on a high

interest rate and high monthly payment.

Oh, >> so it's just one truck for 86.

>> No, the truck is we bought it for 62,000

and we currently owe 55,000 and that

55,000 has not moved at all in the past

12 months due to interest.

>> Got it. I think we've identified the problem, Leonard.

>> Yeah, >> it's one of the problems. What's the What's the payment on the truck every month?

>> Uh $1,142.70.

>> Okay, that's one of the problems. But there's something else going on here cuz you're taking home over $12,000 a month, right?

>> Yes and no. Um, I also I pay 1,500 a

month in child support.

>> Okay. >> So, uh, that that's another 1,500 per month. And then, um, we have credit cards like credit card bills that take up, you know, hundreds a couple hundred bucks a month as well, >> right? But I still got a lot going on here. >> How much is coming out for your 401k?

>> I do not have 401k.

>> How much is coming? Uh, how much of a tax refund are you getting?

>> None. IMX. Uh the past three years I

have owed like 6,000 every year.

>> Okay. >> Then this has got to be a budgeting issue. I think that you guys make a good

income and as a result of that you can get a little bit reckless. I think that's what happened with the truck. And I think that if I were to plug your numbers into every dollar, I'd see a lot of areas that would surprise you that you could cut back in. And probably a lot of them are food and lifestyle. Is that fair enough?

Are you there, >> Leonard? I >> think Leonard flew the coupe a little bit. >> Here's here's where I get that from, Dave. If he's bringing home over 12,000, he gave me 4,000 of rent. He gave me 3,000 of child support and truck payments. >> He's still got a lot left to go. That's only $7,000. >> Mhm. >> Unexplained. >> Unexplained. So, that's why I say that.

And I think that that is a key problem.

When people have an higher income, it gives you more gu more margin to act silly and more margin to get sloppy.

>> And I think that's probably what's going on here. >> Yeah. We're training the next Olympian in dance class. Uh the next MLB player

in travel ball.

>> There you go. >> Um we're eating out uh fine dining frequently. >> Um we have a wonderful vacation every year, >> but we can't make ends meet. And so yeah.

So you you're going to have to go to scorched earth on the lifestyle. Get a detailed budget. Find the margin in the detailed budget by using every dollar. It'll point the margin out to you.

It's one of the things that it's built to do. It'll show you immediately and you'll be going, "Oh my god." Every time every time somebody does it, me included, when you first do a budget, you look at it and go, >> I I'm so bad. Where's all this money going? Yes.

>> It just you have this moment. You're like, I'm stupid.

not stupid, but you're you've been doing stupid stuff. And so all of us and and so when you find that margin in there and you get that stuff going um and you sell the truck, >> you got to sell the truck. >> Sell the truck, cut off the credit cards, go to scorched earth, and you'll be out of debt and in control and have

margin um year. >> A year. >> Oh yeah. And and part of that when we talk about the budget, probably the key behavior that a lot of people don't do is you've got to track your transactions just about every day. And that's the way that you stay on top of the numbers. A key thing that I find that people do that's actually wrong is they make the budget for the month. Green check.

That's great. But then they don't check in with their budget until the end of the month, >> which means you're not living on it.

>> Theory. Yeah. And then you >> It wasn't a guardrail. It was a theory.

>> And then you track everything and you realize, oh, I was overbudget here and I was over budget there. And by that time, it spilled milk. There's nothing you can do about it. >> Yeah.

It's like you put you put uh the address in your GPS and then you never look at the map, >> right? You just I think it's this way, right? Bad idea. >> Pretty over there.

Let's go over there and let's go over there. Squirrel, let's go over there. Yeah. >> But when you track the transactions in real in real time, you say, "Okay, here we go.

I I've I've already spent half of my grocery budget and it's only, you know, a week into the month. I need to pull back." Right? You can start to make changes.

100% of the time they are adjusting 1% 2% 1% 2% based on the currents based on

the winds >> based on the weather uh based on speed

whatever but they're all you're you're 100% of the time and and if you actually

>> you can't see it because it's imperceptible because it's one and 2% but they're constant feedback and constant adjusting to the plum line >> to the actual target. >> Yes. And that's what the daily check-ins do. And it forces you to do this stuff.

And it forces you to look at stuff like, um, that car is brain damage.

>> Yeah, >> we can talk about a lot of different ways, but the largest thing that Americans buy in the typical American budget that is stupid is cars.

>> Yes. >> And it's like stupid on steroids. the level of money we spend and and go and get a car that's completely out of control and and and well just sign me up

for 21% because while I'm out of control, I'm just going to be all the way out of control. >> Yeah. >> And um but we do it and guys are worse than gals.

>> You think so? >> Men will impulse a freaking pickup for

80,000 bucks. He said a marriage thing and he's driving the pickup.

>> Yeah. >> And he blamed it on the marriage. that.

Come on, Leonard. >> You know, car >> I'm gonna blame it on Leonard. Okay, so that it when Dave buys a pickup, it's Dave's fault. Hello. Because guys, we get into cars. Now, some guys are more into cars than others, but I'm redneck.

I like the loud mufflers and all that stuff. I like I love a good muscle car, a good a good sports car. I love all that. Now, my wife thinks a car is just a really large purse, >> but um she's not as into the car other than she wants it to start when she sits down in it.

But other than that, you know, she's like, "Oh, this seems to be a nice car." Yeah, you have no idea how nice this car is. You know, you should really enjoy it. No, it's just it's a place to put the things I just bought at Target. >> Wow.

>> You know, >> car payments have caught up to student loans, Dave.

>> That's painful.

I didn't think much could get could get as stupid as student loans, but there you go. >> I just I I just had a whole another rant. >> Took your breath away. >> And I'm not going to have time.

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>> Timmy is in Salt Lake. Hi Timmy. How are

you?

>> Hi. How are you doing?

Whoa. Try again. You absolutely broke up. Your phone's not working.

>> I'm sorry. Can you hear me better now?

>> Yes, sir. Try again.

>> Yes, sir. I was just saying it's a pleasure to speak to you. I'm doing great. How are you guys doing today?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

>> Thank you, sir. Um, so first I just want

to say I'm really grateful for what you guys do and I'm calling for your advice.

I'm a husband, father, and I just need some guidance in my situation here. Um,

so I've been laid off for two months.

I just accepted a job offer. Um, but it

is a major pay cut and we still have

$24,000 left in baby step two. My

question today is, should I sell our vehicles and just get a second job to attack this debt or focus on replacing my old income first?

>> Both.

Yeah, you need to take take any job until you get the job. >> You did. So, what were you making?

>> So, I was making $112,000

>> doing what? >> Uh um I was a manager at an insurance

company.

>> Okay. And the insurance company, it

wasn't doing well and laid people off and you were one of them.

>> Yes, sir. Yeah. And I got some severance pay. We had a little bit of savings. We were just tackling debt. Um like knocking out credit cards. We were on this final one here and then boom, I got laid off. >> I I finally received a job offer. I've been applying like crazy, interviewing a ton. And I got an offer for about $27 an

hour.

Um which is basically like half of what I was making. >> Yeah.

Doing what?

Um, it's still an insurance, just a different type of insurance. Um, kind of starting out for like level one basically, but it'll be under the small business side of things.

>> Okay. I would take that for the time being because you need something, >> but but I'm not settling for that.

That's for that's for today to get you off the street. >> Mhm. >> Okay. What do you owe? What kind of debt are you carrying in baby step two?

It's just a personal loan. Um, our payment is about $600 a month. Now, I

have three vehicles that I'm considering

selling and just like getting a second job just to knock it off. Um, >> well, tell us about the cars, the three of them. What are they each worth?

>> So, to our dad's fun car, um, I've got a

Corvette. Uh, it's a 1986 Corvette

pristine condition and then a Pontiac

Fiero. Um, I could probably get

like 12 grand for both. And then we have

a second family car that's probably worth $67,000.

>> Mhm. >> Um, >> so so you you own a total of three cars

including the Vet and the Fiero.

Yeah, we have Well, we have three cars and then we have um like like a family car that we would just use four cars. Be down to one car. >> Four cars. >> Yes, sir. >> Oh, >> yes. >> Okay. So, if you sold the vet and the Fiero, that would pay off the family loan or the personal loan. >> Pay off half of it.

>> Yeah. Pay off about half of it. I think I could probably get down the personal loan from 24 to about 10.

>> Oh, they're not worth 12 each.

>> 12 together. No, no. Yeah, I've been

like going to dealers, CarMax, Kelly Boo

trying to like sell it online.

>> Yeah, that's usually wholesale and those are cheap enough cars, you probably could attract somebody in private sale and get a little bit more.

>> They're only selling for six or eight grand a piece. So, I mean, the Corvettes, you're going to attract somebody that's just interested in that co cool old car, you know. Um, same thing with the Fiero, I guess, sort of.

I But, you know, um, >> are you the only one? Are you the only one working?

>> Yes, ma'am. Um, I am the primary bread winner. My wife, um, she takes care of our kids. She does have a small side hustle. She does like, uh, flower arrangements. And >> how many children do you have, sir?

>> I have two, sir.

>> 5-year-old and one-year-old. >> Okay.

>> All right. All right. Well, yeah, she's probably going to have to do more than arrange flowers, and she can do that from home while they're in uh daycare taking a nap or whatever it is that she works her schedule around uh to where she can make a lot more than the few hundred a month doing flowers. She's not making anything doing that. That's a hobby. Um and then you're going to pick up an extra job and you're going to sell at least those two cars for sure. Um but

this is not a debt problem. This is an income problem. This is a career crisis

where you go from 112 to 50 grand.

That's your problem. >> Y >> the the other things are little things we can do to kind of shore up while the waves are crashing in. But the big deal is for you to get back to 100k and uh

and where are you going to do that and how are you going to do that? And it's not just applying for jobs. It's um

getting your foot in the door on a job

and using the skills that you used to run the insurance company before. Um you know, you could be a project manager with those kinds of skills because you have administrative skills and um people skills. You've you know, you're a lot of different things you're doing when you're a general manager in an agency like that. So, um, you need to start looking at that that way and re reset this in your mind so that you don't look up four years from now and still be making 50 or 55.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. You can't you can't consider the 112 a fluke.

>> Yeah. Once you have driven at 112 miles an hour, it feels weird to drive at 50.

Your body is now real is has now reset at 112. Your mind is reset. your spirit

is reset at 112. And so you're you're going to you should if you keep a positive attitude and keep looking for opportunity and how can I do this? Who do I know that works over at that place where I want to be doing that thing?

>> What is it I always wanted to be and I accidentally got in the insurance business? Um what was it I wanted to be before that that pays 200? Um and just reset your whole way of looking at things and continue this career uh to

where this is just a temporary setback, not a permanent path. Yeah. And we can give you find the work you're wired to do that'll help you convert those skills into into other career paths uh along

the way. >> Stephanie is in Canada. Hi Stephanie.

How are you?

>> Hi. How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So, my husband and I are having a little bit of a disagreement on when the right time to upgrade my car.

>> Cool. How long y'all been married? >> Having over 13 years. How old are you?

>> And I've been driving I am 40.

>> What are you driving? >> About 15 years old. Uh 15y old Honda

Civic. >> Okay. It's a piece of crap. All right.

Are y'all broke?

>> Not at all. We make about 250 combined.

>> You have money? >> Um I can pay cash, but >> we can pay cash. We make decisions on our cars. >> How much are you thinking of spending on the new car?

>> This is a bit of disagreement. Uh the car this is Canadian dollars so the the numbers are a bit bigger. Uh the it's a secondhand SUV. It's uh not a Honda

basic but it's slightly above and it

with taxes it is about 50 >> 50. >> Okay. And what does he drive?

>> Like 50. >> Mhm. >> What does he drive? >> He he drives he drives a Hyundai.

Another piece of >> Oh, his is his is old too.

>> Okay. So, this guy hates spending money on >> He got it. No, he got it last year. It's uh It's not old. It's not new new. It's the >> What's it worth? >> What What do you pay for it? >> It It We paid about 47 for it.

>> Okay. You have debt?

>> Zero debt except for >> Okay. So, we can buy his car for 47, but

we can't buy yours for 50. I'm confused.

>> Well, it's it's not that we can't. It's more >> No, I mean, I'm talking I'm looking at him. He says, "No, you can't buy a $50,000 car." I just did, but we won't want buy one for you.

>> 50, but he wants me to wait another 2 3

years and it's already no AC in my car.

Uh, no backup camera. >> Well, just tell him to take your car and you drive his. >> Yeah, there you go.

>> Uh, my car is a manual. He doesn't know how. I Well, that then he's gonna have to learn because he thinks it's an awesome car. And I guess that's what Besides that, we have a law. It's federal law in America. Wife gets the good car.

>> Y'all need to you all need to pick that up in Canada. I'm just saying. I think that's a good rule.

>> So, no, this is this is weird, honestly.

the fact that if you have the cash and you're just wanting to spend what he just spent on a car, but you're not Yeah, you lose the argument. My man, my man

Stephanie, she's she's right. You done lost. We're throwing a penalty flag on this one.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

Keith is in Omaha. Hi Keith. How are you?

Oh, thank you. I'm fine.

>> What's up? >> How are you? >> Good. How can I help? >> Okay. Yes. I'm uh in a situation where

my sister is running without any

financial conscience at all. She's running up her credit cards and my mom

is willing to bail her out and it's at

least into the hundred hundreds of thousands of dollars over the last five or 10 years. And so that's really eating away at what should be coming to my

inheritance, my kids inheritance. And if there's anything I can do, I would let them know.

>> Okay. >> So your your your mom is wealthy

>> there. Yeah. There's money coming in. Um there's uh yeah, there's a real real

significant uh amount of wealth in the family. Yes. >> So what does your mom How much does she have?

a million, 20 million.

>> It probably could be. I don't I don't know exactly, but >> No, I mean, you have an idea. Give me Give me a guess.

>> Oh, it's it's um probably

a million. Um could be two million. I don't know. >> Okay. >> One to two million, >> but it's not 100 million. All right.

>> Okay. >> And the problem is your sister's

>> Yeah. It's just you and your sister are the only two siblings.

>> That's right. Yeah. There's still money in the money coming into the estate, too. >> And how old are you?

>> I'm uh I'm approaching 59.

>> Okay. And what do you make a year, sir?

>> Okay. I'm uh have a long career as a

software developer. We're in a new career now. We're managing apartments and our um we're in a basically low income uh low expense mode here. and um

basically starting to get up in about the 35,000 a year range.

>> Mhm. So, is is there a plan for that to be a good income later?

>> It's it's building. Uh we acquired a new property. Um we are trying to turn the corner and start getting some savings from it. Uh we've got, you know, my retirement funds available especially as I get to 59 and a half to help us.

>> Yeah. And how much do you have saved in your retirement?

>> Uh, it's in the neighborhood of 500,000.

>> Okay, that's good. Good job on that. So, the apartments, did you buy them?

>> Yes, we own them free and clear. Haven't taken any loans. Um, >> and you and you what are they worth?

Um it's uh three different properties um

together could be

probably about $800,000 something like that. >> And you only make $35,000 on an $800,000

investment. That sucks.

>> Uh well, one of them is the one we live in. So we're we're you know, I can't I can't separate it exactly out because we have one one apartment that we do in our in our building, but >> And what does that work? for others. We if you took your home out of it, you still don't have a good rate of return. What's why what's wrong with the rent roll on this?

>> Hey, the the the new the second propert

so so we take mine mine out >> then we've just got the two properties and then one is still just finishing. So we haven't really turned it around to start the income on it yet. >> Oh, it's being renovated. Yeah, >> it's it's just almost finished being renovated. We got one. >> So when it's renovated, what will your income be?

Well, that's uh what I'm hoping is going to turn the corner into to more toward 40 45,000 something like >> So, you're going to be making a whole 45,000 on all of these apartments. That still sucks, man.

>> Your your rental rates are horrible for the money you've put into these things.

>> So, my reason for asking all of this, Keith, is very simple.

>> Um >> yeah, >> your mother has some money.

It's her money.

>> She's allowed to do with her money whatever she wants to, even if it's stupid.

>> Yeah. >> And even if it's harmful to your sister.

And I agree that what she's doing is harmful to your sister. But the basis for you having an argument here is not that you are entitled to this money. I would prefer you, sir, at 59 years old to go have a life and not be worried about your mama's income or your mother's inheritance to make your life good. I want you to go make your life good. And then we can look at this through eyes of strength >> and say, "How can I lovingly help my

sister get her act together and my mom quit being a classic serial enabler,

but instead you're worried about you getting some money cuz you don't have any money other than you've done a good job saving for retirement, but your income sucks. Especially if you've got

$800,000 in paid for real estate and

you're making a whole 45,000 bucks on it. This is horrendous. I mean, I love real estate. I own a bunch of real estate. I can't imagine how mad I would be at myself if I bought into something that paid no more than that as a rate of return. That's nothing

horrible. So, um, you know, we've got

some work to do to get our rates of return up on these rents and not $45,000

as your new career after you've been a software engineer and we're going to go into retirement broke and wait on mom to die. This is not a good plan.

>> Not a good plan.

So, you know, I I want you to

approach this subject of dysfunction in your family, not from your rights because you don't have any.

You're not entitled. Your mother could leave it all to your sister. She's allowed to do that. Would I agree with that? No. Do I agree with her paying bailing her out on credit cards and continuing her overspending? No, I don't. But mainly because it's harmful to your sister and your mother, not because you are entitled to some of the money.

You, sir, need to go have a life and then not worry about it. And that puts you in a different place. >> I agree. >> Yeah. >> It's not a good look. >> So, moms and dads, um Rachel and I wrote about this in

Smart Money, Smart Kids many years ago, and I was just talking about it with a content team this morning. I think I'm going to do a talk out of it. I haven't done it in a while. I'm doing it with a bunch of wealthy people and they always ask me, "How do I become wealthy and not ruin my kids?" And I always tell them, "Well, you can't." Uh, you're the wealth

didn't ruin your kids. They were already ruined. The wealth exposed it that you sucked as a parent. That's what it was.

And so, you know, the but the wealth money doesn't ruin people. It exposes the fact that people suck. >> It makes you more of what you already are. >> It makes you more of what you are. So the way you break that is from the time they're they can talk and walk you we

start with gratitude.

>> Yes.

>> Gratitude. Thank you.

Please.

In the south we called it manners.

>> I know that's right. Yes.

>> Thank you, Mom, for dinner. For standing

over that hot stove.

Mom, I'm going to help with the dishes.

>> Yes. Because if I don't, dad's going to hurt me.

Because you're going to learn gratitude.

You're going to be count your blessings, right? >> You're going to say, "Thank you, Lord, for bringing me this food." Thank you.

>> The world doesn't revolve around you.

>> Thank you. And that leads to the next one, which is humility.

>> But you can seldom be humble without first being grateful. >> I agree. Yes, Dave. And then if you're humble and you realize it's not all about you, the axis of the world doesn't run through the top of your head after all. Then the natural thing that happens is contentment.

>> This is where contentment comes from. Contentment doesn't just evolve as lightning in a bottle. It's a series of events that comes through gratitude and humility that says, "I'm not entitled."

>> No. >> It's the antidote to entitlement is gratitude, humility, and contentment.

And so, you know, I can remember one of my kids, we finally we had driving this old piece of crap car and we were broke and finally scraped a little bit of money. Things were starting to get a little better at the Ramsies and we got the car and you know at our house we always would and especially when I was growing up but even when our kids would do it too. You get a new car, everybody gets in the car, it's not a new car, but it's a new to us car. Just a slight upgrade.

>> My favorite story.

>> And I said, "We aren't doing anything.

>> You are broke.

>> I am doing pretty good. You got nothing.

>> I know that's >> You are a poor child that lives with me.

That's what you are.

We aren't doing anything. You got a mouse in your pocket. We We hadn't done anything. Y All you do is consume. >> I know. That's right. >> You are not a producer at this stage.

>> Freeloaders.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Marie is with us. Hey Marie, welcome to

the Ramsay Show. What's up?

>> Hi, nice to meet you all.

>> You, too. How can we help?

>> So, we desperately need to buy a new house and we are trying to become as

most debtree as we can. I don't think we're going to be able to do it all by the time we need this house. But our biggest um loan um is our solar panels.

Um, it's 40,500 and that we'll pay it off by the year 2047. Might as well be dead by that point. >> What in the world? >> So long. It is so bad. But the reason we did it was because we were homeless for

2 years before that. And our budget was so tight. We needed we couldn't have our bills fluctuating every month. And then sometimes it would go to 400. Sometimes it would go down to 80. And we never knew what we were going to get. >> Stop place. Mhm. >> Please tell me you know how stupid this is now >> that you traded $47,000 for a $100 fluctuation in your utility bill.

>> Yeah, it was like a 300. Yeah, it was better. >> But still, either way, there's no possible way any of this math accomplished what you wanted to accomplish. You completely surrendered major long-term debt >> for a tiny little movement in your monthly budget. >> And don't blame it on you being homeless. Tell us why you desperately

need, which is a strong language, to to move right now, why you need a new house.

>> We have a two-bedroom, one bath, 900 ft

house. We have four kids and one on the way that's coming in December. We have our three oldest kids sharing a room and the baby's sleeping with us in our room.

Um, but my boys, my my oldest are boys

and they're getting to the age where they need to be. >> How long have you been in this house?

>> Four years.

>> How old were they when you moved in this house?

>> Well, my oldest is 11 now, so I >> So you you already were the old woman in the shoe when you moved into the house.

>> Yeah. >> You barely fit in there when you bought it. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> You don't even know what that is. You got to look that up after you get off the air. Okay. Um >> the uh uh >> better than living in the street. So >> yeah, you remember being in the street, but you also bought a house that wouldn't handle your family.

>> And now you're now you're realizing that. And it certainly wasn't a crisis when you bought it.

>> And things have not changed except by one baby. >> Okay. Now, now what is this house worth?

This house has about 35 to 40,000 in

equity right now. >> Not counting the solar panels.

>> Oh, you going to take that out? Mhm.

>> Then so nothing. >> So it doesn't have any equity when you pay off the solar panels cuz they're attached to the house.

>> Mhm. >> And what's the house worth?

>> Uh about 235. We're we're at 186 right

now and um after all the payments we've

made. So, >> okay. Now, my screen says my screen says, "Should we get our solar panel loan cancelled?" >> Why would you be able to get your can loan cancelled?

>> Well, you know how Facebook is. As soon as you start going in and searching something, it sends a bunch of ads your way and you never know what's a scam.

>> Everything on Facebook is a scam.

>> All of it. This is not a place to get solid information.

>> Yes. That's why I was calling because it's they sell a really nice story. So,

my I keep seeing this the same name as a loan, which I'm sure it's done on purpose, um, of the people who sold us the solar panels saying that because they were making shady deals and things like that that people are getting their

loans forgiven. Is it a lawsuit?

>> Was there Yeah, >> I don't There have been some lawsuits, but I It feels a little shady. Like >> I need to do some independent You need to do some independent research on that.

Don't go by Facebook if you want to know. Just research if there's a lawsuit pending against that company. >> Is there a class action lawsuit or has the Federal Trade Commission gotten a ruling? There you go. >> Go to the FTC.gov. Go to ftc.gov.

Federal tradecomission.gov. Have you done that?

No, I was going to ask what are some good places to search because I go on Google and I get all these companies that pop up with the same stuff. So, I don't want to go in the wrong direction and then go into debt because of a lawyer for a fee or whatever and that was unnecessary. >> What's your household income?

>> 84,000.

>> Okay.

>> We have our three our three kids that are older have special needs, so we homeschool. I have several chronic illnesses as well. >> What's the nature of the special needs for the three kids?

>> Um, well, my oldest has severe anaphilaxis to a lot. Um, and they have

all three of them have ADHD and anxiety and two of them have autism.

>> Okay.

>> And I have Lyme disease and rheumatoid arthritis. >> Oh my goodness.

Boy, oh boy. Okay. There's a lot going on. What are you guys paying? What do you pay for the mortgage every month?

What do you pay?

>> $1,400. And in um November that will go

up by $300. The windows on our house

were cracking um and it wasn't safe. We

were single pane from 1984. We have to

get new windows for the house.

>> So to answer let's answer your question at hand. You don't have the money today to move up in house. You you just simply don't. Absolutely not. >> And we don't want to add insult to injury. The the best thing I could think of is if you're trying to find another

place that you could rent for a while that's got an extra bedroom that's in the same range, the $1,700

range >> if you got your house sold. >> Uh-huh. If you sell this house and that can buy you some time to save up a down payment. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, Maria, I'm going to be

honest with you and love you. Are you ready for me to do that?

>> Absolutely. >> You sure? Brace yourself. Put your seatelt on. Okay.

It's already ugly here. It's all good.

>> Okay. All right. You guys make a lot of decisions that are large decisions that are very

drambbased.

Suddenly the 1984 windows were

dangerous.

No, they weren't.

A window salesman called.

>> Suddenly we couldn't afford. We were homeless. And so we bought a house that doesn't fit our family instead of going and renting something that fit our family. And so we went from drama to drama to drama. Oh, and we buy $47,000

worth of solar panels to stabilize a

$300, $200 utility bill with another

bill that is equal almost that.

So all this stuff is you go to drama and every time I do drama and you too Marie

every time you've done drama you've made bad decisions anytime I get feeling desperate right

after I get desperate I get stupid

and most people do so if you feel this

rising up anxiety inside of you that this house is a crisis this utility bill is a crisis this homelessness is a crisis and you and you build it to where you justify doing something really dumb to get away from the crisis. You're making things worse every time you do that.

You've made three large bad decisions in

this phone call and they all were based on that pattern.

So, you've got to take a step back and take a breath and you've got a lot on your plate. I mean, you got all kinds of special needs in the house. You're doing it all in 900 square feet. you were doing it in a homeless situation before.

Those are all real stressors. But when you're in the cooker like that, you got to be real careful to move carefully and

slowly on the next step. Otherwise, you're going to step on a rock and fall in the creek. And that's that's what I do. I get I get desperate. I get a little little little little jinky. And

all of a sudden, I get stupid. And you've done three really large bad ideas. You should not have bought that house to stop being homeless. You should have gone and rented something that fit your family. >> You shouldn't have bought windows because they suddenly were a problem from 1984. Crap. Those windows were in that house when you bought them.

>> And then you shouldn't have bought solar. So, I mean, I'm picking on you. I told you to put your seat belt on, but I'm loving you well. Hear me because I can see this pattern real clearly.

And if you don't break it, it's never going to go away. >> Yeah. >> And so, I want you to stop. So, yes, I want you to investigate and see if you can get rid of the solar loan.

It's possible. I'll give you a 10% probability that this particular company has been set up by the FTC and the loans are being forgiven. You can check it out.

I would pay a lawyer 500 bucks to research it for me and check it out against 47,000. That's a good investment. and find out if there's a uh a uh a class action suit or something out there or a Federal Trade Commission ruling out there to get rid of this.

That'll help you get this house sold.

And then gently and carefully and calmly go rent something.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Andy is

with us in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Andy. How are you? >> I'm well, Dave. >> Good. How can we help?

Well, uh, before I ask my question, I just want to say first of all, thank you so much to you and your team at Ramsey

Solutions for helping my family and I to

be able to get out of debt and be successful financially and then to be a to equip your equipping of us to be able

to help other people through doing FPU at our church and doing personal financial counseling. >> Wow. >> And it's you guys have just been such a blessing to us. >> Thank you. Sounds like you guys are a blessing. We appreciate you partnering with us. Thanks. >> Well, it's it's been great. So, here's my question. Um, and this is it's kind

of a summary of experience that I that we've had counseling people, but it also includes our own experience. And I'm using our numbers because it's what I have available. >> Okay? >> So, I'm not I'm not trying to convince you to change your program. Uh but I am

kind of asking for help for those of us who are still it feels like we're still in the trenches even after following your programming being successful with it. So my wife and I started the baby steps in 2011. Uh it took us seven years

to finish baby step >> 2.

>> Uh we taught FPU several times during this period and uh eventually we paid off our home in 2023 and in 2025 we paid cash for a new roof.

In 2026, we pay cash for a new to us

car. We believe in the baby steps and we

stick to the plan. But our problem is it

sometimes it just feels like there isn't enough. So here's the numbers. 17% of my

income goes to taxes. 25% is just for

groceries. We give 20%. Our utilities

are 17%.

Transportation is about 12%.

>> Wait a minute. Wait a minute. What do what do you make? What's your household income? >> Uh about 67, not including overtime.

>> Okay.

>> So, if you total all those numbers up, that leaves 9% for retirement, insurance, and lifestyle. And we're not looking to live an extravagant lifestyle.

But I guess our question is when do we when do we get to take a real vacation?

>> Well, whenever you want. I mean, you have to budget that in. I don't know how you're spending 25%

of $67,000 on food.

>> Well, grocery costs went up 38% in the last >> I know what they did. I'm sitting here.

Um I'm talking about $67,000

times 25%.

I mean, you don't you have children? You have eight children?

>> Nope. Both of my children are married and out of the house. But >> two people are spending two people are spending $20,000 on food,

>> $15,000 on food.

>> Groceries are expensive. Yeah, that's the number that we have. And and we're not living extravagantly now. We we we stick to we try we try to stick to a carnivore diet, but that's not exclusive. >> Okay. So, well, back to your original question then. Just I I just got sidetracked on that number. It was throwing me. All right. Anyway, the um

well, you you have a below average household income.

Household income in America is 78 and

yours is slightly below average and you

have zero debt, but all of your bills don't go away when you have zero debt.

>> So, um I I think the only I I don't think you're going to live a millionaire lifestyle on that income. Um,

but uh your income taxes

shouldn't be 17% either.

They shouldn't be that high. So, I'm

you're a detail guy, so I'm I'm I'm struggling with to be the guy to question all of your numbers, but I'm questioning some of them already. Um,

so I I don't know the answer to your question philosophically except to back up and say if I had debt, I'd be screwed

in this scenario. If you had a house payment and two car payments, I don't know how you'd make it in this scenario where you've got where you've locked this down so tight that you only have 9%

left to save for retirement and you don't have a stinking payment in the world, including a house payment. And somehow from 2011

to 2023, wasn't it like 12 years? You found

enough margin in your budget to become completely debtree and pay off your house.

And now there's no margin.

That's weird. >> Yeah, that is weird. I I mean, I think my guess is there probably is margin.

It's just not uh what you thought it was

going to feel like. And there's something to that. Uh you made the point about the income, which is true. And there's something to that.

If we talk to a teacher who makes a lower income because they love teaching and they love that, then we say, well, you're going to have a Camry lifestyle.

That's just part of it. You're going to drive a used Camry. You're not going to have a ton of margin because that's the income. That's the life that your income is affording you. And I think that there is just part of that that the cost of living is high and because of that your income doesn't go as far. It doesn't mean you're not free or >> Did he say 20% on giving?

>> He said 20% on giving, 17% on taxes.

Neither one of those makes sense. >> Yeah. Uh 20% giving is a choice. He could be >> I would be doing my tithe at 10% until I got my retirement funded. >> I I agree. I agree with that.

>> Until I got my retirement funded. So you're all Okay. And biblically speaking, the tithe is off the top before anything. Um, offerings are from

surplus.

>> And, uh, regardless of whether some preacher tells you he wants the widow's might to build his building, but uh, I can argue about that teaching all day long. But the, um, the the offerings

come from surplus all through scripture. And the tithe is baseline off the top before you do anything. So, and that's how Sharon and I have given our whole lives. And so, yeah, I'm going to >> I'm going to check in on a bunch of these percentages if I'm you.

>> Yeah, it's I got three of them written down right there. 17% income tax, 25% grocery, and

20% on giving that I question all three of them. So, anyway, check in on all that and dial it in and and then redistribute and let's make sure we're getting 15% of our income into retirement because you said you only had 9% left over to do that with and to upgrade a car and so on.

>> So, >> now there is something to be said. He said he put a new roof on. He put he did new cars, things like that. >> Where did that money come from? >> You saved it up and you did it >> with from what? There's not enough margin here. He explained a budget that was gone with down to 9%. And 9% won't do those

things if you did nothing, you know? I mean, so it it it didn't get him out of debt. It didn't get his house paid off. So that's the other thing. So, something's changed

>> and it's gotten uh some of these percentages have fattened up a little.

>> Yeah. >> Since everything got paid off and since we did these other things. So, uh but you're always going to have stuff come up and you're never going People get

confused. I wrote about this in um Baby Steps Millionaires too. Um we get emotionally confused because when the the word millionaire kind of came out was the 1920s, >> 1910 20 right in there. And in those days, a million was a lot like a billion today. >> Yeah. >> And so when you're a millionaire, you drive a two-year-old Toyota. You don't

have three houses. No.

>> And you don't have a private jet. Those are all billionaire things. And a billion is a thousand million. So it's

not going to feel like you're rich.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like you're like unlimited funds for something. So um a your income's low. B,

lower lowish. Uh B, you did this before

somehow did made these other things accomplished. C look at your percentages again cuz some of them are a little wonky.

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Continuing that discussion for just a second,

there is something I have observed as you go through the baby steps and as you go through your wealthb buildinging process that um gradually shifts and it's so gradual

it's almost imperceptible.

And that is um

that as you build wealth and as you get

more and more margin in your budget because you don't have any payments >> and because you start to have a pile of money in your retirement 401k, you've

got you've got a good strong emergency fund. The further down that you move

and and it makes sense when I say it out loud, but you don't realize it's happening. Uh the further down that you move, the bigger the event has to be

before it financially the dollar amount has to be larger to emotionally strain

you. >> Yeah. Yes. >> So like if the if I had a flat tire when

I was broke, my life looked like a country song. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong, you know. And so a flat tire was the national debt. It was

drama, drama, drama, drama, drama because it was yet one more thing. And I was so broke I couldn't pay attention.

Um now I would have to total a car.

>> Yeah. To >> to have the same with no insurance to have the same feeling, >> you know, or or bigger, you know, even.

Um, but and it's not just because I'm

older or I get a but your perception is different the more wealth you have built and the fewer the more margin you have in your monthly budget and and so what

used to be a crisis is no longer a crisis. You will experience that but it

is so subtle and incremental that you don't feel like you've arrived. M people have

a perception and this is one of the things he was asking about that I didn't properly address this why I wanted to continue the conversation into his defense um was that when you people have

the perception that when you hit baby step seven you're going to feel like you hit the lottery >> but your income woohoo moment >> there's not a woohoo moment there's a

>> I it takes a lot bigger problem now to be a problem >> moment and it snuck up on you so you didn't even realize it so you don't feel like you got there. >> Mhm. >> You don't you don't have this um uh um top of the mountain, put the

flag in or something uh celebration

moment when you get to Baby Step 7. It's kind of a yawn. >> Yeah, I could see that.

>> And so, um I I you know, I do want you

to go there because it's the you know, it's it's a better yawn than the nightmares you're living in before you get there. So, you know, let's let's have a yawn for sure, >> but you're not going to have the

>> uh suddenly I have unlimited funds feeling. >> I think because you don't >> I think that's the difference. You be you become a baby steps millionaire.

Maybe you have a million bucks in the bank between all your assets in your home, but you don't earn a million dollar a year. You still earn 60 or 70 or $80,000 a year. The only difference is instead of the $800 a month going to the debt, now it stays in your pocket.

And most people say, "Okay, we're going to bump up giving a little bit. Maybe now you increase the grocery budget a little bit." But it's not these.

>> But $800 is not two weeks on Santorini

and me and Mkos in the Greek >> island. And that's my point. You're not >> That's $800.

>> Yeah. You know, >> it's it's the ability to have freedom in the the daytoday the small things in life that you used to you used to go to the grocery store and the the budget strings had to be ultra tight. Now it's okay to loosen it up a little bit. You used to you see what I'm saying? It's these little things up day. Yes.

>> And pay cash. We can put a roof on and pay cash. And by the way, >> and those are the celebrations, but they feel so mundane that you don't feel like

the celebration is there that you should have felt it should feel better than this when you get his point was it should feel better than this, >> but you're still it doesn't >> because you still have to have delayed gratification. I think that's >> and you still have limited dollars.

You're still not in Congress. >> That's right. Y >> you know, it's still that's it. You still have to say no and it still takes time to save. Yeah. what you're buying and everything else. Julia is with us in St. Louis. Hi, Julia. How are you?

>> Good. How about you guys? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, um I started listening to the Ramsey show probably about six, seven months ago. Um I recently got married and I had a virtual job that was

in my hometown and it was great. I had

full-time hours. I moved here about 2 hours north of where I'm from in St.

here and um my work downgraded my hours.

It's a smaller startup company and it was a bad business venture on their part and long story short I only getting 10

hours per week which really sucks comparison to like 25 or even 30 at this

point. So um I had to bootstrap up and I say what what can I do in my community to make myself make money and I started a small cleaning business. >> Good. So, um, now I'm cleaning up to four or five different houses, and they're big square footage houses. So, I'm getting about >> anywhere from 250, that's the, you know, smallest range, all the way up to like maybe $1,000 per week, uh, when it comes to just cleaning houses on the side. And >> you are a grind and hustle girl. Way to

go.

>> Thank you. Thank you. Um, yeah, long story short, that has become my main source of revenue at this point. So making more than you ever made in your life is >> Yeah. Are you are you making more from the houses than you made full-time doing the other gig? >> Yeah.

>> I mean, whenever I was full-time, I got smaller. It was a smaller doctor's office. Like it was a virtual >> That wasn't what she asked, honey.

>> You're making more money now than you used to make at a J O, >> right? >> That's what I said. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

>> Good. Good. Now, >> all right. So, what's the problem?

If anything, when should I decide to

make this an LLC? Because >> LLC, no, you don't need an LLC.

>> Do you have a separate checking account that you run your business on?

>> Correct. >> You do. You have a DBA account doing business as?

>> Yes. >> As a sole proprietor. And you run all of your income from the business into that account and only expenses out of the account. And then when you take money home from that account, you set money aside for your quarterly estimates.

1/4th of what you take out of the business to take home, you set aside for taxes. Okay.

>> Yes, definitely. >> Yeah. When you do all of that, you do not The LLC does not save you a dime on

taxes.

The sole proprietorship has exactly the same write offs an LLC does.

>> Exactly. >> Okay. The only thing you have only thing you need an LLC for >> the only thing you need an LLC for >> is risk.

If you are if you have if you're a multi-millionaire and you start a business and you think somebody might sue you because of the business and try to get your multi-million dollars, then you would start an LLC. If you're in a business that is high risk where you

could get sued inside the business and you're not, you would start an LLC. or

if your company starts making over a million dollars a year, you would do it for risk. But the LLC is only for risk.

Meaning that if you're doing business as an LLC, everything's in the LLC name.

It's Julia's House Cleaning LLC, right?

And that's the name of it. And everything everything's built to that.

All the workers are working from that.

If somebody falls while they're working on the job and they want to sue the company, they have to sue the LLC. and all they can get is the LLC's assets.

They couldn't take your home. They couldn't take your cars. They couldn't take other stuff because your LLC is the one doing business as a standalone entity. That is what it's for. It's for risk management.

>> Not save on taxes. >> If she started hiring on other house cleaners to clean as a part of her business. >> Yeah. We're we're five or six weeks into this.

>> I'm just saying. >> Yeah. I mean, she's been running this thing 6 months or a year. It starts making bank.

it starts getting really complicated. There's a whole bunch of players involved. you're in rich people's houses or you're in a high uh risk environment like some kind of sensitive office situation >> where the you know somebody misbehaving in that situation is a risk uh and you're sending employees into that not yourself then yeah you you know where you start perceiving risk >> is what an LLC but but there's all this crap on the internet that get an LLC you'll save on taxes >> and that that's what happens when you're so stupid you listen to Tik Tok But yeah.

Oh my gosh.

I know. I know. I know. Shut up. But anyway,

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We've implemented this practice since our wedding day. Zero money fights because there's full transparency. We're on the same page. See, that is a key to winning right there. That'll cause you to be able to build wealth and to win in your relationships. Every dollar, the budgeting app, it'll help you work the Ramsey plan exactly like you had us in your back pocket. It's in the App Store for free and Google Play for free. Donna

is in Dallas. Hi, Donna. How are you?

>> I'm fine, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay, so uh my husband and I are older.

I'm 71, he's 84. Um, during COVID, we

had our 401ks, our retirement accounts, and the stock market took a dive and we went down like $26,000 in a week, and we got nervous.

So, we took it out real quick.

>> And our thought was, I know, our thought was that we don't have time to recover.

>> If we lose everything, you've been out since >> tried it one more time. The same thing happened and we just couldn't do it again. We just couldn't do it. Um, >> it went up 25% three years in a row and

you missed that.

>> I know, but I keep thinking they can't stay like that. It's going to be gone.

>> Oh, God. But am I going to feel worse if I lose it or or go up? Going to be the

worst there. >> Donna, the problem is the first dive when you said you lost the 26,000.

>> It recovered in like 50 years.

>> The moment the moment you took it out, you just locked in that loss. You 100%

lost the 26,000. You do not need to be you do not need to be investing in the stock market.

>> Yeah, that was kind of like my thought.

So, we did try >> because you don't have the backbone >> to stand >> the volatility. >> Yeah, the stock market's not the problem. >> No, the the the history of the stock market, you you lost your butt.

>> You got out at exactly the wrong time.

Like the worst possible. You did it the worst possible way you could have done it. And so if you're going to do that again, you need to stay away. Meanwhile,

I made a 100% on my money

>> while you did that >> because I just rode the roller coaster up and down and enjoyed the ride. Got off, got on it again, and rode. Never never got off. I just stayed on, said, "Take me around again." >> Yeah, take me around again.

>> I think there's a bigger issue at hand.

How much did you have in the stock market?

>> Um, we had like about 190,000. I think

that's the issue. I think the the bigger problem is you're worried that you don't have enough to live on throughout the entirety of your retirement. And so that's what's causing you to be very like trigger happy with this and very like >> quick to move. >> Well, no, what's causing that is a lack of knowledge of the market and you you're not you're not familiar enough with the history of the market to be comfortable. So you think all bad news is the only news.

>> And so if you can't get past that, you're going to do this again and again. And I would recommend you don't do it again and again cuz you're taking a beating. >> Yeah. >> And at 71 and 84, you don't want to take a beating.

More than anything, you're taking a beating emotionally. Your 200 would be 400 if you'd have left it alone. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> That's what I'm saying. My sister-in-law, my sister-in-law back, I think it was in the 80s or something when the stock market went bad or the '9s. It was hers was the '9. And she lost almost everything.

Just >> No, she did not.

There's no time in the stock market's history it went to zero.

>> Well, it was such a small amount and I don't know. I mean, she's my only

emotionally lost everything, but she did not lose. That's like in in 2008. Okay.

The stock market dropped in half. It went from the Dow Jones went from 13,000 to 6,500 and people said I lost everything. No, you lost half.

>> And the only way you lost it is if you took it out >> if you took it out at the bottom perfectly. Meanwhile, >> and how long does it take to recover? I mean, >> one year.

>> Okay. >> And it's not 13,000 now where it started down to 6,500. It's now 36,000.

>> Mhm. >> And that's since 2008. Okay. And so in

the last year, the market has made 13%.

Since the first of the year, we started bombing Iran and the market went down and then back up. And it's currently from January to today down 1%.

1%.

That's not losing everything. That's losing $19.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So that that's but you've got to get your head around this both of you because if you're going to believe sister-in-law's mythology and you guys are going to sit and watch the news every night and freak out then you're going to do this again and again and again and I don't want that for you. I think you're better off making too little money and and not being awake all night.

>> Okay. Right now they have it in CDs. Um

>> put it in a high yield savings account.

you know, go to Fairwinds Credit Union, dump it in a high yield savings account, and let her ride, and you're going to make three or 4%. You're going to break even with inflation, but you're not going to lose anything. And you and you're going to sleep beautifully. But I got to make fun of you, okay? Because I love you. I know. >> Meanwhile, Meanwhile, my money is going to be doubling >> while you're making 3%.

>> Because it's going up. >> If I can convince myself to suck it up, >> you would have to You'd have to read enough. sit down with one of our smart investor pros and read enough and look at the market. So, here's the numbers.

97% of the five-year periods, if you leave it alone 5 years since the stock market began, have made money. That's all of them.

>> Okay? So if you had left it alone five years in any scenario that we're talking about, you would have made some money

even in a weird crashy weird thing like

COVID or Iran war or 2008. Okay, all of

those actually you can look at it. It's about the same time. It's COVID hit in March and so did Iran war >> and so Trump starts bombing Iran the market dives. All right. And so cuz it

always does that with geopolitical stuff. And so if you understand that every time it does that its returns very quickly, then you start getting the opposite mindset that like, oh, he bombed Iran. Great. I'm going to get to buy this on sale.

Okay, >> this is this the stock market's now on sale because I know it's going to go up INSTEAD OF OH GOD I'M GOING TO LOSE EVERYTHING BECAUSE my sister-in-law told me a mythology told gave me a lesson in mythology and so um you know that's but

you if you're going to invest again so here's what I would do let me let me go back up if I'm 71 I'm 66 I'm 65 getting

ready to be 66 so uh we're close to the same age I would put this money in a high yield savings account and let it ride and sleep at night. Meanwhile, I'm going to challenge you intellectually to sit down with a Smart Investor Pro and start learning because knowledge of how

this these markets return, how they co go down, how often they come back, what the bounceback period is, and all that will cause you to ride out the waves.

>> Yeah, let me go over it because this is so cool to see. So, what I'm going to tell you is a major market crash that we all know and how long it took to recover the losses. So, you could go back to 1987. You were there for that. Black Monday. >> Black Monday. Yeah. All right. >> It dove 34%.

>> 34%. >> And it took 22 months to recover in one day. >> 22 months. That's less than two years to recover. 1990 Gulf War recession. It dove 20%. It took four months to get back. Just four months. Uh let's go to

the dot crash. She said 49%.

Half. It took less than seven years to completely recover. Half. That's one of the big That's crazy. Look at this one.

2008 the Great Recession. I remember that. 57% it dove. It took less than

four years to recover. 2018 federal rate

selloff. 20% crash. Less than four

months to recover. 2020 COVID crash. We remember that 34% dive. It took less than 5 months to recover. And then most recently the 2022 inflation bear market

that we all experienced 25% dip. It took less than 22 months to recover. You just

have to write it out. If you can if you can sit tight for two years, you get back >> that one's wrong because in um we had a

25% a 24 3% and 26% market three years

in a row. >> We did >> and that So that last one's wrong, but the others are correct. >> Others are correct. All right. >> There you go. I remember the others. So, yeah. Okay. Interesting. So, studying this stuff and going, how fast does it bounce back after the towers get bombed?

>> Right over the top of Wall Street.

>> Yep. >> 57 days.

>> Wow. >> That one came back.

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Might not be in all states. >> Okay. Today's question comes from Zach in New Hampshire. He says, "My wife and I have $250,000 in various savings accounts. My wife wants to use the money as a down payment to buy a home. I think it would be a waste to use it that way.

I would rather keep investing the money and eventually live off of the interest in dividends. Our rent is affordable and has not increased since we moved in. We have one child and a combined income of about 200,000. We're debtree and our monthly expenses are very minimal. If you were in my position, what would you do? Well, I'd buy the house. I would

because number one, you're stabilizing one of the largest line items on most people's budget, which is their housing.

And your rent may have not have gone up yet, but it will eventually. So, I would do that. And I also just think there's a piece of mind with having a place that you can call home that's yours that is gaining equity. And I think uh Dave,

what I what I sense in this conversation and we've had this with many people who've called in is it's almost like people forget that purchasing a home is a form of investing. It's like I just want to invest my money in the stock market. I'm like well I love the idea of investing. Can you do both? Can you do 15% in the stock market and can you invest in real estate which is your primary >> home? I think they're both very good to do. >> Agreed. So, um, you the premise that the

person writing the email bases this on is that he's got cheap rent and it hadn't gone up, but everyone listening knows that's going to be false. >> It will change. >> So, that you can't expand, you can't extrapulate that out 40 years. Okay?

Again, I'm 65 years old. So, when I was 25, if I had been renting, can you imagine how much my rent would have gone up >> during that 40 years of my working lifetime? Absolutely. >> Um even if I had a good deal initially with the first landlord who didn't go up on me for 3 years or something, right?

But that's going to come to an end at some point. >> Um that guy's going to die and the next investor is going to go way up or whatever. It's going to you 100% of rent

goes up. >> Yeah. And while that's happening, by the way, the real estate market's going up.

>> Exactly. >> As well. And so during that time, you

know, again, we you've heard us say this before, we've done done the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America, detailed, airtight research.

And what we have found is is that 89% of

America's millionaires started with nothing, did not inherit the money to

become a millionaire, and became millionaires. So then you have to ask the question, what did they do? If you want to be one, you do what they do. You study best practices and you emulate it.

Right. Right. >> So what did they do? Almost all of them like a 85 90 percentile looked like

this. >> I mean they they all kind of fit the same mold. They were boring.

>> Mhm. >> And what we found is they they worked and got their home paid off and it was 6 or $800,000 and it took them 10 or 12 years to get the home paid off. And then they've during that time they've been investing steadily in their 401ks and in their Roth IAS and they had another 800 or 900,000 or a million in that. And it took them 16 years to do that.

>> Mhm. >> So you got a you know $800,000 house and you got 1.2 million in your retirement

or less anywhere in there and you got a 1 to2 million net worth. So those are the two components of the first one to5 million of net

worth that we see people build and that's normative among them. They bought

a house and paid it off. They steadily invested in 401ks. That's what I mean by it's not sexy. It's boring.

It's just like buy a house and pay it off and put money in the 401k and go to work and come home and eat your meatloaf. I mean this is what you're doing, right? and you become a millionaire. It's not like you like like you like you somehow invented applesauce.

I mean, you didn't do anything that was that brilliant. You were just steady. And so that's why his idea is flawed >> because that house becomes one of the two components of wealth building to your point of investing that causes people to become wealthy. And during that time, 100% of the time, rent's going up.

>> Yes, it is. >> 100%.

>> Yeah, that's right. >> And so, I mean, the house that I sold

when I was 18 years old, my first house as a real estate agent, I got my real estate license when I was 18. I sold the house two weeks later. I sold it for on East Ridge Drive in Antioch, Tennessee for $42,500.

That house sells for $600,000 now.

Don't be a renter. >> Yeah, that's the moral of the story.

>> I mean, hello. If you were renting that house the entire time, >> rent is going, >> you would have been paying, let me think what the rent would have been. The rent would have been 150 bucks probably.

>> Mhm. >> In those days. Wow. >> Maybe 200.

>> We rented an apartment uh a couple years later, a one-bedroom apartment for $2 235. >> Oh my gosh. Wow. And so right after we got married. So and that was 1982. So

this would have been 78. So four years later. So yeah, probably been 150 200 bucks for the rent on that $42,500

brick ranch built in 1948. 1,000 square

ft with an unfinished basement.

>> Mhm. >> And um Yeah. And that house will go for 600k right now. >> Oh my goodness. and that rent, which means the rent would probably be

he'd probably be renting that for 2500 bucks. >> Oh my goodness. >> So, that's the problem with this theory.

And that's that's that's everywhere in America, right? That's not in Antioch, Tennessee. That's everywhere. That's all over America. And so, um, yeah, not

ashamed. I sold that guy that house, by the way. I think I think I did I think I did him good. I was 18-year-old idiot, but I still did him good.

you know, I didn't know what I was doing, but I thought I knew what I was doing, but it turned out I knew what I was doing. There we go. So, yeah.

If you can put down, and this guy has 250,000 bucks to put down, if you can put down 20%, you can avoid PMI, which

is private mortgage insurance, and that

is a good thing. if you can avoid that.

First-time home buyers often can't get a whole 20% down. I understand that.

>> In this market though, you you you're putting down more if you want the payment to be less than 25% of your takehome. So, you got to get there. >> Depends on the house. Yeah.

And where you're living and all that. But, yeah, you're exactly right. It's all numbers. It's all math.

Why? You know, one thing I find on this show a lot is people are always willing to sacrifice their personal residence.

They're always willing to put their personal mortgage and the piece of that on the line. And I find that to be interesting because the truth is there's more tied up in that than I think people realize in their day-to-day life. But all you have to do is be in a situation where you're up against the wall and you realize how much it matters to you.

Anybody who's had a diagnosis, anybody

who went through CO 19, anybody who's been laid off or lost a job, the number one thing that you start thinking about is your home >> and you want your home safe and you don't want to lose your home and you want to make sure you can make the payment. So don't forget that.

>> Don't forget that. >> There's something very primal.

>> Yes. >> About that. >> Yes. Yes. And a different kind of anxiety than I can't get the coffee that

I want today. >> Right. >> That's a different kind of anxiety.

>> So, when you're in >> I'm going to lose my home.

>> Yes. >> That's different than having the lights cut off. >> That's right. >> I've had both, but I don't want and I don't want either again. Uh and I don't recommend it as a method of learning, but um >> so protect it. Protect it before your backup is up against and I hope it never is, but protect it when you have the ability to and pay it off when you have the ability to. So, circling back on that guy just for a second, if he keeps

investing steadily, his investments will

not be enough to cover the difference in rent going up.

So, he's going to end up he's going to end up going backward. >> That's a good point. You're saying percentage wise, >> he's going to he's going to end up going backward in that scenario. Your investments won't do well enough um for you to stay ahead of that. And if they are, you're playing in stuff you shouldn't be playing in.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washaw, Ramsey personality is with me. We were talking about stock market returns earlier and during that break, we actually got to play with the actual app a little bit and look at it and I uh misqued some

stuff. So, I need to clean up my mess.

If some of you are still listening before you're bitching on the comments that Dave Ramsey is an idiot, because he was he messed up. So, um anyway, the um

the thing to remember about the S&P, um

it is it recovered in about 90 days from

the high. It was up up in February.

Trump bombed in Iran. It dove. It came back in I think it's 92 days. It recovered to where it was and it's well beyond that now. And I said the rate of return for the year was down 1%. I was

wrong. It's up 10% for the year. So if

you've been in the stock market, invested in S&P, which is the stock market from January 1 to today,

um you know, then you June 1, then you

have made 10% on your money.

Meanwhile, it went down and back up.

And so you rode a roller coaster down and you wrote it back up 10%. Now in

2024

20 yeah 2024 the stock market made 23%.

>> Yeah >> S&P did then 25 and the year and then 26

and then 17 and so those are the returns for the last several four or five years >> um under different administrations and all kinds of different situations and different volatility and gone up and gone down and back and forth. But you can go back and just pull up an S&P app and look at it online and you can see the thing going up and down and you say, "Okay, there's a dip. What was going on at that time and you go back and look at the news stories of the day." >> Um, and so you'll see it comes back in 57 days or whatever like that just like we just did on the about 90 days on that around more or 60 days.

that the moral of the story is you do not put

money in the stock market unless you're going to leave it alone at least three years and preferably five.

If you don't have that mindset, you're

going to panic every time you read a news story or see a news story on and Fox and CNN are going to tell you that Chicken Little, the sky is falling every day. It's what they do. It's fear porn.

And they're going to tell you every day that the world's coming to an end. The world's coming to an end. They always report when the market is down. They never report when it's up.

>> Ever. >> They never say record stock market returns. Now, a business channel like a Fox Business might or in the old days the old CNBC back in the day, not there anymore. But the uh if it was a pure business channel with stock market reports, they might say the market's up at a record level. And um and I think I

did say the the Dow was at 36. It's like at 50,000. So I'm not even close on that. So I screwed up two things in one of those other segments pretty dramatically. But the moral of the story still is no one gets hurt on a roller coaster except those that jump off in the middle of the ride. I do not take my

money out of the market based on any

singular event because I think the market's going down.

every time the market goes down.

Instead, I am tempted to scrape the nickels out of the corner of the couch and put more in >> because it's on sale.

>> When I was a kid, there was a store called Kmart.

It's gone now. And when you went in Kmart, they had these little things that on rollers with a blue light on top. And

they would roll this thing over to the

whatever aisle, the tool aisle or the socks aisle or the underwear aisle, and they turn the blue light on. And there would be a blue light special and you could get a bargain. And so the rednecks would flock to the blue lights, right?

Like a moth towards a flame. And so I remember my mama running down the aisle of Kmart to the blue light. That's what you should do when the stock market goes down. The blue light is on. It's on sale. Get a bargain. Run down the aisle,

you redneck. Get you some money. Okay, that that's what we did. And so um that

that's there's nothing wrong with that.

And but if you've got the mindset of it has always come back and the only game is how long it takes it >> then when it dives on one of these

>> anything >> news items >> or geopolitical events whether it's COVID or you know fires in Australia or whatever it is it causes you know the Russians launch a satellite uh somebody

invades Ukraine somebody doesn't invade Ukraine uh somebody's oil barrel goes up

whatever it is whoever you know whatever it is me whatever mess Trump is making this week ends up in the stock market, right? Or whatever victorious thing he does this week ends up in the stock market. And so, um, for a but for a

short period of time overall, you just make money. >> Yes. >> So, that's the moral of that story. I'll get off my soap box. All right, let's go to Jay in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Jay.

How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, uh, me and my wife just had a baby in January. Hey, what'd you ask?

>> A girl. >> Awesome. You're ruined.

>> Um, yeah, I know, right? Um, and so

doing the doing the current bills. Uh, we're trying to pay off debt, but she just had a school payment come up and that kind of threw everything off. And then daycare is coming up in September.

Um, and right now we don't have enough to cover daycare. So, we're trying to figure out what can we do to get to at

least where we can afford daycare and then also pay off debt.

>> What kind what kind of school payment?

>> Uh the school payment itself right now is $360.

Um but that's just one that's the the private, you know, Sally M that's out right now.

Everything it's a loan. It's a student loan.

>> Yes, that's my wife's student loan. >> Oh, I thought you meant she was in school. Okay, >> got it. And how much is dayare? >> She's in a she's in a break right now.

Uh daycare is going to be $1,600 a month. >> And when you say your wife is in a break, when does she go back to school or when did you plan for her to go back?

>> That's up in the air. She finds out by tomorrow whether she's allowed to go back. Right now, the school is is not being very kind with her having a baby.

So, she plans on going back in the fall.

>> Can you afford for her to go back in the fall? It doesn't sound like it. So she's

she's on grants for schools. So that that is her school's covered and if the grants don't work, her schools pay or her work pays for it. So they do like a they pay for her college. >> So she works also.

>> She does. Yes, she full-time. >> And the 360 is for an old student loan.

It's not an ongoing tuition payment.

>> Correct. >> Got it. Okay. >> Why are you paying is that a federally insured student loan or a private student loan?

>> It's a private. >> Oh, okay.

All right. >> All right. So, what does she make at work?

>> She brings in 2,000 a month >> and 1,600 is the daycare.

>> Yes. >> Well, that doesn't work. >> No.

>> And of course, you know, that may our money's combined. So, um, together we make 7,600 a month.

>> I know. But her working, if she's not working, you don't have a $1,600 daycare, right?

>> Correct. Well, she not making 400 B. I mean, we're not working full-time to make 400 bucks, >> right? >> That doesn't work. So, we got to figure out a different job that she does from home or makes twice as much money cuz

her being her working and making $2,000 and paying 1,600 for the privilege is not logical. >> Yeah. >> No, I I would work part-time from home and make more money net of daycare and

be home with a baby. Um, that's step one. And then step two is you look at what you can do to pick up extra jobs.

And oh, sell the car. I didn't even ask about it. I don't even know if it's there, but probably sell the car.

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Faith is in Boisee. Hi, Faith. How are you?

>> Hi. Thanks so much for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up? >> Um, I just want to I just want to start off with saying I just know that this is

a first world problem and I'm grateful to have it, but I really need your advice. >> I'll try. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, we need to know if we should

pay capital gains at the uh number of

$50,000 to the IRS or if we should reinvest

using a 1031 exchange.

>> So, you're selling a piece of uh investment real estate?

>> Yes, we are. >> For how much?

>> Um probably uh we're listing it at $4.99.

So you've depreciated. Your adjusted basis is approaching zero.

>> Um no. Um but we are um we'll probably

make about 300,000 equity on it after.

>> Yeah. Okay. That' be 45,000. But that's a equity is not equity. Equity is not your basis or your tax basis.

>> Right.

And let me tell you, we've gone over this with all kinds of like tax people

and >> Okay, so the tax people are saying you have a $300,000 gain at 15% that'd be

$45,000, >> right? >> Okay. Is that that's what you're hearing? Correct. >> And then with all of the money we've invested into the rental, they're saying we'll probably walk away with a $50,000

capital gains tax. So, we can pay that

or we can take that money and reinvest it into something else.

>> Okay. Let me stop. Let me stop you a second because I'm I'm concerned that the number you're giving me is is where it's coming from because and I want you to go back and double check that. Let's walk through the basics of that and then we'll go back to your question. Okay.

>> So, when you bought the bought to me, but I'll try. >> That's okay. when you bought the property, um >> Mhm. >> you're selling it for approximately 500

>> and um you're thinking you have about a $300,000 gain. So when you bought it, um

uh you probably paid 300,000 for it, let's call it, okay? And then you've been depreciating it, which lowers your basis, and you've been doing capital improvements to the property, which increases your basis.

Yep. >> Okay. That adjusted basis down by

depreciation and up by capital improvements subtracted from your sale

price subtract and that number subtracted from your expenses for selling is your gain. And I can't tell

from the way you're wording this if that gain is 50,000 or if your tax is 50,000.

>> The tax I was told is 50,000 after someone else worked out all those numbers. And the property, what kind of property is it you're selling?

>> It's a single dwelling.

>> Okay. So, it's it's a rental house.

Okay. >> And you're s you sold it. Why?

>> Well, we want to sell it because where we're living now and we're renting right now >> um is so extremely expensive. So, our ultimate goal is to lower our monthly

housing costs >> and take this equity and buy a home.

>> Yeah. either buy a home or we thought buy a duplex so we don't have to pay capital gains tax >> if you live in it you >> which is a whole another thing. >> Yeah, that's a mess. That's >> that's a hot mess.

>> Can she do that and live in the other side of the duplex? >> Yeah, but you you got to try to figure out a way to bifrocate the duplex and that's really troubling. Mhm.

>> Um it's not >> And in the area that we're wanting to live, um a duplex, even if it was only

like 1,400 on each side, square feet on each side, would be close to a million.

>> I I would pay the gains and use the money and buy the buy the home that you need to buy. >> You're forcing yourself all into a duplex. You wouldn't have bought a duplex anyway.

>> The only reason you're doing that is to save this game >> and to try to play some kind of shell game with this money. Um, and so, no, I

I'm going to pay the tax, get clean, >> and um, just buy the home that you're supposed to buy that you need to buy that fits your budget with the money that you guys have from the sale of this and from what other money you've stacked up. Put as much down as you can put down. And um, don't get caught up

because you're forcing yourself into a duplex. And if you're living in one side of it, you can't 1031 that side. And yet

there's not two sides to a duplex in terms of the there's no line down the middle that you can say one side's investment and one side's not unless it's a zero lot line and it's not. It's a duplex. So you're getting yourself into a real potential barrel of fish

hooks if you get audited. And I'm not sure how you'd come out on that. I wouldn't screw with it for all that. And you wouldn't be buying a duplex if it wasn't for this one simple issue. And so I just ignore the issue and go do the house you're supposed to do. not let taxes force you into a decision you wouldn't have made otherwise. >> I like that. I like that. >> And that's the way I would go at it. So,

yeah, but if you live in one side, does it become your personal residence? Oh, but the other side is rented, so that's a rental property. Yeah, but it's one property. >> Very confusing. >> It's a singular property. It's not a dual property. If you bought two properties attached, two condos that

were attached at the wall, then one of them would be an investment. You could 1031 into that. could not 10:31 into the other >> because you can't 1031 into a personal residence as she's already discovered.

>> But um I also Faith want you to go back

unless you guys have owned that property a very long time. I'm not sure the

numbers you're getting that that's an unusual if you've spent money on the property doing capital improvements that's an unusual gain. So, but I I would look at

it and try to just make sure that your adjusted basis that you understand that and that the difference is times 0.15%

for your capital gains tax is the 50,000. I it might be it might be I might be wrong, but I really want to understand it before I move forward just to be double sure, triple sure, but no, I would not do a 1031 in this case because it's forcing you into a purchase you would not otherwise make. It's a good question. Interesting discussion.

Thank you. Zach's in love, Texas. Hi, Zach. How are you?

Hey, I'm great. How are y'all?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, doing well until your lady volunteers beat my lady Raiders in softball, but all things considered um pretty well. Um but my question is um

I'm a uh 10 1099 employee uh 1099 um

here in Lok and I have recently done

better and better in our career field and uh >> thank you and I I've been definitely trying to I've been maxing out my Roth IRA and that's gone well and well um

even maxing that out I'm not hitting my 15% in uh the baby step that I'm in where I'm debtree and everything but my home. But my question uh revolves around

um I have a tax professional with the heart of a teacher that is telling me, "Hey, you might consider a traditional IRA with your escort as a 1099 uh uh

tax. Uh >> you have an escorp." >> I do. Yes. >> H Okay. >> Yes. >> Um well, cheaper than that, you do you have employees in your escort other than you? >> Uh no, it's just me. >> Okay. Yeah. I you can set up a uh what's called a simple IRA, which is a 401k for

small businesses.

>> And you're the only employee.

>> Yes, sir. >> And you can max it out.

>> Okay. >> And just hit your Smart Investor Pro up.

And And the good news is that it's it's basically 401k for small business. They call it a simple IRA. And the good news is it's $15 a year administration cost.

It costs nothing. >> Oh, it's nothing. Yeah. >> Yeah. like a big 401k like our company, you know, we pay tens of thousands of dollars a year to administer it for a,000 employees, right? And then we have to pay another $40,000 to have it audited and all that stuff. You don't have to do any of that with a simple.

It's all just $15. It's like setting up an IRA. It's like setting up another Roth IRA. And you can do a simple Roth.

So, you can just make it more Roth, more good, and put it in there. If you did have employees, you have to match 3%.

>> Yes, sir. If you ever hire someone for your escorp other than yourself, you'd have to match 3%. But the weird thing is

you can actually match yourself.

>> So, which really serves absolutely no

purpose unless you're well, if you're maxed out, it would serve a purpose. If you're going to put all the full amount in, that would get you there.

Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw.

Listen, summer spending adds up so fast between vacations and road trips and camp fees and events and all the extra gas and grocery runs. Money can get tight before you know it. To really get your money under control and keep it that way, you're going to need a plan.

And that's what you'll get with the Every Dollar Budget app. It helps you track your spending, free up cash to put toward debt and savings, and it's the simplest way to make a plan for your money before the month begins. So, no more wondering where your money's going.

You're telling it where to go. Download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

So Jade's just teaching me something at the break that uh goes to our last caller. So the simple IRA for small business is what I said it was. It is an inexpensive way to set up a 401k for a small business. If you have employees, you have to match 3%. All that was correct that I told him. You cannot put as much into a simple IRA as you can a

solo 401k. But Jay, the solo can only be

if you have only yourself and your spouse. >> That's right. Only the owner and the spouse. >> But you can't have any employees with solo, but you can put more in it. >> That's right. So, if you're a high ultra high income earnner on self-employed

1099, no employees and you max out your

both of you match out your Roth IAS, you can also do the solo which will get you way up there then. I mean, you can put >> up to 72 thou uh up to 72,000 is the

contribution limit >> with matching yourself and doing all kinds of other girrations in there to get it to work. Yeah. Okay. So, there's two types that'll work for you. Solo and Simple. They are a little different product, but you can learn about both of them from a Smart Vster Pro. And you can find your Smart Vster Pro at ramseyolutions.com.

Gregory and Kimberly are on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey

Solutions, which can only mean one thing. Where are you guys from?

>> Bay City, Michigan. >> I love it. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> About $300,000.

>> I love it. How long did it take you? 72

months. >> 72 months. And your range of income during that time? >> About 180,000.

>> Okay, cool. What do y'all do for a living?

>> I'm an occupational therapist, rehab director. >> Awesome. >> And I'm an electrical manager at a pickle plant. >> Great. Very cool.

>> And I'm guessing with that length of time and that amount of money, where y'all from again? >> Bay City, Michigan, >> which is near what? >> Two hours north of Detroit. >> Okay, cool. >> All right. I have something in mind here when I'm thinking about 300k of debt.

>> What was it? >> Must be your house. >> Well, we had about uh $70,000 in consumer debt and >> cons student loans, credit cards, leased cars. >> Wow. >> Silly things. >> And our house for last >> and the house. >> Baby steps. >> You are debtree everything. I'm looking at weird people.

>> Look at you guys. Way to go, y'all.

Excellent. So, what's this house worth?

>> $275,000.

>> I love it. And how much have you got saved in your nest egg so far?

>> About $688,000.

>> All right. You are almost millionaires.

>> Well, if you consider that we also have about $46,000 in liquid assets.

>> YOU DO. YOU ARE BABY STEPS MILLIONAIRES.

>> Way to go, you guys. I'M SO PROUD of you. >> So, uh Wow. How old are you two?

>> I'm 58. >> 54. And you're millionaires. And you started with nothing. >> Surreal. >> How long you've been married?

>> 33 years. >> Wow. >> Congratulations.

>> That is so cool. So very well done. So

tell us your story. How did you get started on all this Ramsey stuff 72 months ago? >> And well, it actually started in 2014 when we moved to a town in Ohio and uh

wanted to start working on my retirement and went to a financial adviser and they said, "Well, you can't really invest until you get out of debt. And it was at that point where I felt like I was going to die at my desk.

And in 2018, I met a a guy where I

worked named uh Jeff. Uh I called him one F Jeff because I messed up. He's only one F and his Jeff. And I told him about my situation and he says, "You need Dave." I said, "Who's this Dave?" Dave Ramsey. He says, and I was like, "Who is this? Some snake oil salesman?

What's up?" >> Yeah. So, I started listening to your show and I listened to about for about a year and >> and it took me a while to get on board.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz a snake oil salesman takes a minute.

>> I understand. No issue with that at all.

>> What changed your mind, Kimberly?

>> Uh, we were just drowning in debt, living paycheck to paycheck, and just tired of being stressed out all the time. >> So, I'll try anything. Yeah, >> even Dave. Yeah.

>> Yeah, I understand. Yeah, that's how it happens a lot. I like it. I like it.

>> Very cool. Okay. So, at that point sometime you all had to have a sit down >> and go, "All right, let's do something." What? Tell me about that moment. Do you remember it? >> We started selling everything and we we her and I we we did agree to it's time to do something because like you keep saying, we're sick and tired of being sick and tired. And so we I think it was

April of 2019, we said, "It's time.

Let's do it." And we started selling everything. As you said, the car kids were about concerned about they were next and and uh just started pouring

money. We had spreadsheets. We used the Every Dollar app. We just did everything we could to get out of debt. And

December of 2019, I turned in a stupid car, a lease. And

it was at that point where we're like, "Holy smokes, we're out of debt." >> Everything just in time for co >> Yeah. Yeah. And then last year, last year we uh we decided to move out of Ohio and move back to Michigan. And uh

we sold our house down there. It took a while, but it was about December 9th when we closed on our house in Bay City

and we paid cash for the house.

>> WOW. >> WOW. >> I we walked out of the title office, which blew my mind. It only took a half hour. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I bet I looked at her, it's like we're debtree. completely debtree.

>> Yeah, it was just we're in baby step seven. What is this? And who pays cash for a house? >> You do. It was amazing.

>> Wow. >> It was insane. >> Exhilarating free.

>> Congratulations. How's it feel to have no payments in the freaking world?

>> It's awesome. It >> It's makes the monthly budge a lot easier. Let's put it that way.

>> Yeah, it's pretty simple. Wow.

>> So, what what big thing, Kimberly, are you guys going to do to celebrate >> that you have no payments in the world and you're millionaires?

>> Uh, we came here to do this.

>> Y'all are people of simple taste.

>> You are.

>> No, seriously. You going to go on a trip, buy a car? What are you going to do? You need to do something. >> Look for another sailboat.

>> A sailboat? Bay City. Okay. All right.

So you have a little one, you need a bigger one. >> No, we sold >> You sold it. So you got to replace it.

>> Yeah, we sold it and when we moved out of Ohio, we sold >> So what's the budget on this sailboat?

>> Yeah, about 16,000 maybe.

>> Okay. All right. That's nice. Very nice.

>> I love that for you guys. >> Good for you. Congratulations.

>> And I got to tell you, it will glide on the water better than that one with payments. >> Even the one Even the one we sold didn't have payments. >> Okay. All right. It just was helping you get out of the other payments. Okay.

A lot of people would have taken the 275 from the sale of the house and used it as a down payment on a bigger house.

>> No. >> How did you walk us through your mentality there? >> Uh last kid was out of the house. We were empty nesters.

>> So we went from 4 acres and a huge house

down to a very simple, you know, 1,200

foot >> easy to take care of >> halfacre house. >> Halfacre house. It made it a lot easier. Yours all yours. Home sweeters. Yep. Wow. Way to go.

>> Excellent guys. I'm proud of you. Who was cheering you on as you went?

>> Our kids mostly and co-workers from time

to time, you know. >> Yeah. The guy that recommended Dave.

>> Yeah. >> Jeff with 1F. Yeah. >> I wish I could find him.

I would give him I would buy him a drink or something. >> Yeah. Amen. Well, congratulations.

We're very very proud of you >> and we really appreciate you coming all the way down here and sharing your story and I can't wait to send us pictures of the sailboat. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah, that's that's very cool.

Good for y'all. You get you're living the dream, man. >> That's how it works. Well done, Gregory and Kimberly, Bay City, Michigan.

Quite a journey.

months. Debtree everything, house and everything. And in the process, become baby steps millionaires making 180.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> Three, two, one.

>> We're debtree.

>> I love it.

>> There we go. >> So good. So good. >> Oh man.

Hey, you know you're serious when you sell the sailboat. >> You know you're serious when you take the 275 and buy a house in cash.

>> Mhm. And move down. go down in house to make >> while the kids are gone. Yeah. We don't need to Yeah. And don't have to keep up the the upkeep. She's right about that.

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsay

Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

Buying or selling a home is a big decision. last people sold their house and changed cities and moved down. You got to make decisions carefully about that. That's a big one. >> House is one of the biggest transactions you'll ever do. And you need a high quality, high octane, high protein real

estate agent. If you want a Ramsey trusted agent, go to ramseyolutions.com/agent.

If you want to learn more about the market trends, you can go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on the podcast or on YouTube. Our scripture of the day is Psalms 143:10. Teach me to do your will,

for you are my God. May your good spirit lead me on level ground. Henry Ford said, "The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing." >> Love that. >> There we go. Ben is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Ben. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

a question or need some help. Um, really

need help and questions.

I have a issue trying to get my wife to agree to a budget.

Um, the way things are is that she will

look at money in the account and look it

as a way of there's this amount of

money, this is how much I can spend.

And I I've been struggling. I've been It's the money in the accounts always been causing problems as far as trying to >> Okay. Your phone's breaking up. Can you get where you can speak directly into it and keep it clear?

>> Hear me now. I'm sorry. >> That's okay. Try again. So So your wife thinks there's money just cuz there's some in the account and you're having trouble getting her to understand we don't have all that money because some of it's got to pay the electric bill next week.

>> Correct. So what I've done is it's caused problems in the past. So, what I've actually done is I've

I've pulled money into the um to the account into one account to make sure the house gets paid, but we constantly run into issues with um money um being left in the primary account.

>> Okay. Um so, let me stop you for a second. How long y'all been married?

>> We've been married for 14 just under 14 years.

>> Oh gosh. And how old are you guys?

>> I'm 58. She's 42, >> let me tell you. >> So, why does a 42-y old woman not grasp the idea that we have bills to pay, >> right?

>> She does, but anything outside of that

is a open invitation to spend.

>> No, it's not. She's a 42-y old grown woman. She's not a four-year-old.

>> I agree with you completely. I agree with you completely. >> Okay. So why when would you look at her and say I need a grown woman to join me in my marriage and join me for our

household good and that's you can't spend like you're in Congress. We're going to write down together where the money's going to go and you and I are going to stick to that and if you can't keep that contract we need to sit down with a marriage counselor.

>> I agree. Um let me give you a little bit more of a backstory. So, I did lose my

job probably about a year and a half ago and that put a lot of financial burden on her.

Since that time, I've got a job. You gone through baby step one. >> Okay. I'm sorry. What financial burden did it put on her? She was the only one working.

>> She was the only one working. That's >> No, it put a financial burden on the household, >> right? Cuz her job remained the same.

>> Correct. So there's no financial burden other than the household had less income during the fact that one of you weren't working for rich or for poor in sickness and in health. That does not give you a reason to overspend.

>> Quite the opposite.

>> Are you back to working?

>> I'm back to working. >> Are you making what you were making?

>> I'm actually making more. >> Good. >> What do you make? >> Uh debts are stabilized. What do you

make?

>> I make roughly about 125.

>> What does she make?

>> She makes around about 35.

>> Okay. So, let's start fresh. Here's how the conversation needs to go. Honey, we've tried to work on this together several times. I'm very concerned and

I'm really worried about our relationship, our marriage, and our future.

and I need desperately to get closure on

our money. If we put all of our money in one account and before the month begins, we both sit down and we both have a vote

and we both decide where this $150,000

a year, $160,000 a year is going to go.

We're going to decide this month, here's what our take-home pay is, and every dollar is going to have an assignment.

Every dollar is going to have a name.

You get a vote, I get a vote. We're going to come to a conclusion that every one of those dollars is allocated. We're not going to spend anything except what you and I have decided is good for our future. Can you help me and can we do that together? If she says no, you don't

have a financial trouble. You have a marriage problem.

>> Okay? If she says yes, now put your big girl pants on, your big boy pants on, and both of you sit down like two grown-ups and make adult decisions

without any shame of I've lost my job or

somebody had stress because of that.

Well, we all had stress because of that.

Hello. But that's in the past. Today, we make $160,000 and today we need to get out of debt and become wealthy and outrageously generous and have a wonderful life. But that's not going to happen by accident. And it's going to happen when we sit down. Both of us have a vote. Both of us have a voice and we plan it out. What am I missing, Jade?

>> I don't think you're missing much. I think that I I don't want to say this, but I think he's afraid to challenge her

>> and like push on this.

>> You sound like you're a little too sweet. Yeah. >> Too nice.

>> I'm a southern boy. You're here.

>> You know, I think she can take I think she can take it. I think she can handle you having a very serious conversation

when you're saying this can't continue.

This is a detriment to both of us. It's a detriment to our relationship.

>> And I'm not asking you to do what I say.

I'm asking you to do what we decide together. >> And and I think that she can handle it.

>> And if she can't handle that, then there's something else going on.

>> And uh but this thing of I just do whatever the flip I want after 14 years of marriage and I'm 42 years old.

There's nothing southern about that.

That's just crazy. >> Yeah. Cuz it wouldn't fly if you were doing whatever you wanted. I guarantee you that. >> Yeah. >> And uh she'd be calling us going, "How do I get my husband under control?" My husband >> under control. Right. I mean, it's like, "Wow." Uh >> yeah. There's When you become an adult, you have to do the things that require adulting in your

marriage. You know, it you have bills to pay. You got pay the bills. You have to work together and just do your own thing. >> See, you you can use the downloading of

the Every Dollar app and we're going to build this together >> as a way to do the conversation.

>> Yep. >> Because you're kind of starting to fret. You're starting this is a whole new way of us doing this. Instead of me being your daddy >> Yeah. >> and little girl does whatever she wants.

Or you being my mommy and I get an allowance from you. >> Do it together. >> I don't care what your mom and daddy did. I don't care what my mom and daddy did.

I don't care what we did for the last 14 years. We're going to build a new thing going forward starting with this every dollar app tonight. Let's sit down together and both be grown-ups and both decide on purpose what's going to happen to this money and both of us push through. Y and there there's there's some relational breakthroughs when that happens.

>> I agree because for him it's going to have to be he's going to have to share something with her beyond dollars and cents. It can't just be well you got to stick to the budget. You're not doing the money. He's got to share something that has a greater why behind it.

makes me feel scared when I see this. It makes me have a hard time trusting you when you uh react like this. He's going to have to share something that's a little bit of a deeper level when talking about the money so that she understands it and vice versa.

>> The breakthrough at our house was when Sharon finally clicked that this was the best way she could get her voice,

>> her vote counted. this is how she >> the budget was a mechanism for her to have a vote that counted >> because she's dealing with Mr. Strong Personality over here, right?

>> Who just does, you know, just does it and then you figure it out, right? But that was that was like I don't know 30 years ago, right? But um but that was still a breakthrough. That's how she got a vote. >> Yeah. >> With a strong personality. And sometimes that's how you get the princess off the couch or the or the irresponsible guy to

plug in and be a man. Yeah. whatever whatever analogy you want to use on this, but that's that's a what a lot of people face, Ben. It's not just you guys. It's most people struggle in this area, but if you can if you can solve for it, it's gamechanging. That puts us the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 22. Can Trump’s Plan Clean Up America’s Financial Mess?


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD0ZOogTW5w) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:18:31 |

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[Music]

this inflation thing is a big deal so in the first 90 days The Strokes that you

make to change the economy when you're elected that's pretty dramatic I believe

I'll be able to get energy down to 50%

of what it is right now within a period

of less than a year I know small businesses are where jobs come from when you guys in government can take your hands off of small business we're able

to employ people and change things so how can you help small businesses you have to love what you do if you don't

love what you do it's not going to work it's the largest tax cuts in the history of our country that's why we became so

successful you think we can do that again yeah I think we can go lower if I don't turn my head at the exact 90°

angle if I was a little off I'm not doing this very nice interview with you

I hear you going back to Butler and finish the speech I am I'm going to

say hey guys Dave Ramsey here with the

Ramsey show if you don't know what the Ramy show is it's a show about life

about money about

relationships it's not a show about

politics we specifically over the years

have tried to remind you over and over again that what happens in your house is

more important for your success than

what happens in the white house we also realize that this election is a really

important time right now the people are

really looking at what's happening

there's a real divisiveness in the air a

lot of anger in the air so our team

reached out to vice president Harris's

team about the opportunity to sit down

with her for a long form interview and

reached out to president Trump's team

about the opportunity to sit down for a

long form interview with him and to talk

about ideas talk about what's going to

happen not what has happened and not

about personalities and not about name calling because both sides are pretty good at all of that stuff and the fact that I sit down with either one of these candidates is going to piss some of you off and frankly I'm perfectly fine with

that it's something I wanted to do and I felt like it was something we needed to talk about so I find myself sitting here

in Trump Tower getting ready to

interview president Trump for a few

minutes I think you're going to find this really

interesting so president Trump thanks for taking time to sit down with us honor to be with you good to hang out with you as you know we do a show called The Ramsey Show and talk to regular

folks every day calling in most of the

time with financial trouble sometimes with financial victories uh stuff we've taught them to do the basic Grandma's

Common Sense stuff right and that

audience that's going to be watching this is they're not concerned with a lot of

things but they are concerned with $8 eggs $5 gas 7% interest rates and a

house they can't afford with wages not going up as fast as house prices this

inflation thing is a big deal so in the first 90 days The Strokes that you make

uh to change the economy when you're elected are a big deal what are you

what's the first things you're going to do on that in that well in terms of inflation you're right and it's almost

inflation over the economy if you want to really know because people are getting wiped out like never before I

think it's the highest inflation we've ever had they say it's the highest in 48

years I think it's the highest ever

there's never been any mess like this and it's because of what they did with energy also then they topped it with

spending with money that trillions and trillions of dollars that they didn't need that's being just wasted but uh the

first thing you have to do is get the energy down if you get the energy down other things are going to follow you want to get the interest rates down too

and interestingly even interest rates are going to follow energy because it's going to take that burden off the shoulders of the economy and off the

shoulders of inflation itself and we are

going to drill at a level that you

haven't seen since let's say four or

five years ago but even more so we would

have been so dominant by this point if

you remember uh when you go back to the

beginning of this really failed Administration that when right now what they did was they turned off the energy

they turned off everything that I had you turn back on the Keystone you're going to turn back on the drill baby drill line and the in your acceptance

speech at the convention it says it all

you know I'd like to use another line but there's no line that's better and we're going to drill baby drill but the fact that they turned it off and then

the energy if you look back at the very initial period of their Administration

the the numbers started going through

the roof the energy numbers inflation

was good and then they went back to

Trump where they're trying to equal it

and it kept it bad as opposed to

horrific and it's been really bad and

the energy has been very expensive but nothing like it could have been so they went back to Trump type things but we

would have been now three to four times

more we would have been dominating the entire world on energy we have more than anybody else as you've heard me say but

as you also know right we have I call it

Liquid Gold we have more Liquid Gold under our feet than anybody else actually by far we would have dominated

we would have been taking care of Europe we would have been taking care of Asia we would have been taking care you know anoir in Alaska is the biggest find

anywhere in the world it could be as big as Saudi Arabia and I got it Ronald

Reagan couldn't get it nobody could get it I got it it was done ready to start

and when these people came in they turned it off they they they terminated

it nobody could believe it I don't know

if people realize that you know 10 to

15% of the entire economy is energy and

it weaves its tentacles through

everything else so $5 gas affects the

bread truck who delivering the bread and that affects the cost of the bread then

and so you getting that plentiful right

changes everything so I have a little

thing that I've been saying lately because I think it's easily achievable

you know we pay very high energy costs and especially now but we're paying very very high I believe I'll be able to get

energy down to 50% 50

% of what it is right now within a

period of less than a year wow that's

pretty good it's going to happen fast

okay it's going to happen fast but what are you going to do to do that what causes that they're going to drill they're going to they're going to Frack they're going to do things that they they have tremendous addition taking the RS off taking the reg yeah we oh we have

to they put them back on they put regulations back on that areas that have

no environmental real meaning they don't

let them drill they they're taking leases away government leases that you're hearing about I think we can get

energy costs down to half of what they

if we do that that's pretty dramatic

everything all of those inflated prices

are going to come down with it I think the other piece of that and I know he was part of your Administration and you know I were talking before we turn the cameras on that we have a mutual friend in art laugher and I know he helped a

little bit with the tax code in the last Administration and I personally have experienced the laugher curve that lower taxes right causes increased revenues to

the federal government because it heats up the economy and I'm a small business

guy when you lower my taxes it doesn't mean I put it in my pocket it means I hire people right and so uh talk about

lowering taxes in the first year of your Administration yeah you probably saw my

plan and I think we have something really good u i was yesterday in North

Carolina which is great that was the

furniture capital of the world and China

then went in and did a number and took

so much of that business you know most of that business the talent I used to go

there to buy furniture for hotels and things North Carolina yep in Hickory I

was in Hickory yesterday and made a

speech and we're going to bring it all back what we're doing is there's sort of a two- fa face number one I took taxes

from 39% to 21% you know that better

than anyone it's the largest tax cuts in

the history of our country and that was

great that's why we became so successful

you think we can do that again yeah I think we can go lower and I'll tell you what I'm doing uh I'm bringing it from 21 to 15 but you have to manufacture

your product here and then you pay 15%

and then I'm going to put tariffs on

countries so they can't come in and steal our business so that our

businesses now can be competitive not

that I mean China came in and just stole

all our furniture and and many other

industries by the way including steel

and I save Steel by putting 50% and 100%

tariffs on all of all of the steel that

they were dumping but we're going to do

so in other words this is a dream for you then we're bringing uh the tax rate

from 21 remember it was 39 and it was

really 50 if you add state and local and

all the other things so we're going to bring it down from 21 to 15 I got it

down to 21 which everyone said was

impossible and got it approved by Congress so it's you know it's there and

we're going to bring that down to 15 but

you have to make your product in the

United States yeah and we do see Federal

revenues go up when the taxes go down

because the economy goes you saw it with me so we saw it with Reagan too you saw

it with Reagan so at 39% and then down to 21% you would think

we' do half or you'd do much less in the

First full year we did much more Revenue

in the United States than we did it 39

in other words we took in much more

money which is how you solve the deficit I mean Bill Clinton almost balance the budget with the exact same yeah that's true that's true he did and cost cutting

yeah we have plenty of cost cutting to do too and that's okay that that's in

fact I'm gonna ask Elon who's a great

guy but he's a pretty good great interview yeah oh that was a great interview that was that was some

interview we did uh pretty big numbers I

hear we did like 900 million people or

something that was a pretty good but

he's a great guy and he gave me a full

endorsement and all of that but uh he

he's Got a Good Sense on that there's

tremendous uh cost cutting that we can

do and affect nothing just we're not

going to affect anybody we're not going to hurt anybody we have to save Social

Security and keep it good and solid I

don't want to be raising ages or anything I don't want to do uh they're

putting migrants into Social Security

when when they get finished they are if

she got elected this country is going

bust if she got elected we're going back

to 1929 dep depression it's it would be

a disaster for Medicare Social Security

they're allowing millions and millions

of people to come in you can't use these schools anymore the quality of life in

this country has gone so bad because of

what they've done one of the things that

our viewers know about us we work with

uh tens of thousands of small business people and so coaching them 54% of the

gross domestic product is businesses 500

people or less almost everyone in America H over half almost 60% of people

work for yeah a small business and I

know small businesses are where jobs come from not from government so politicians don't create jobs small businesses do pisses people like me off when they

when the politicians say they're making ones making the jobs we're the ones making the jobs but when you guys when you guys in government can take your hands off of small business and allow us

to do our thing we're able to employ

people and change things so how can you help small businesses well the best way

is just letting them do what they have

to do but we still have to give them a playing field if we don't give them a Level Playing Field they will die and

that's what happened before that's why China came in that's why all the they

came in and they came in at a level like

nobody's ever seen and we did nothing about it so the word tariff to me is a

very beautiful word because it can it

can save our country truly and yet I

think because of graft because of a lot

of uh Consulting payments and other

things that given by other countri

we have so much fighting with politicians on using it I saved our

Steel Industries by putting tariffs on

steel that China came in and dumped and

you know what they do they dump and dump and dump everybody goes out of business then they buy those businesses very cheap and then they raise the prices to

higher than they ever were that's one of

the many benefits that they have if they want to do it but by putting tariffs on

as an example in the furniture business in uh in North Carolina it was so vibr

and they stole our business and they

charge us if you wanted to build a

furniture place if you want to sell your

furniture in China they won't take it

but if you want to build a plant in China to make furniture in China using

their labor they open it we're doing the

same thing but a lot of people like oh

well we don't want to have tariffs the

country was at the richest point in its

history in the 1890s it was all tariffs

if you looked at William McKinley as an

example he was a big tarff president

they had committees that were put in

charge of what to do with the money we

were taking in so much money and

McKinley would say why should we let other people come in and steal our factories and steal our workers and

steal our jobs and why shouldn't we

benefit and he tariffed the other

countries and we made so much and then

they went to the income tax system later on but they would actually have they had a blue ribbon committee our country was

so rich they didn't know what to do with

the money and this Blue Ribbon committee

was set up to determine how can we spend

all of this money and they took it in

through tariffs but we can turn our

country around make it strong and then

guard it with tariffs yeah let's change

gears for a second my wife Sharon and I were in Scotland two weeks ago and we

played a bunch of different courses there including Turnberry good which arguably according to the golf guys I was playing with is the nicest course in the UK right now and certainly the halfway house lighthouse out there Turnberry is amazing but what I what I came away with

not only the golf course great just just to give you a huge compliment you know that but the staff and the team the

Excellence in the hotel in the restaurants in the golf shop everybody

we dealt with talk about what it's like to work for Donald Trump how do you hire leaders and put people in place that do

that because I know you're obviously not there personally managing that but you

put a culture in place in your organization and that applies to the administration as well hiring people that are quality leaders well my son Eric is very much involved and he runs a

lot of it and Don helps out a lot and uh

Ivanka to a lesser extent you know she's

a great mother and everything she did a

fantastic job in the administration all

she wanted to do is get people jobs she'd go around and see uh Exxon and see

Walmart she wanted jobs for people it's

really pretty amazing she could had a very glamorous job and she would have done well but Eric's done a great job

and I did a similar type of job when I

was doing it now I'm doing a thing called running for president so I don't get but we rebuilt turnbury turnburry

was considered one of the greatest courses in the world because the land is

so incredible right with the ocean and you know that ninth hole over the you're hitting over the ocean how good a golf are you H 13 all right that's not great

I'm just I've only been playing 5 years I'm just learning oh oh really enjoyed

you and Bryson's 50 wasn't that that was

fun that was a great video that one did well in terms of the ratings it did and

he can swing a club he can swing and he's a great guy and he is very long

very straight and you know what he's a

great putter yeah one of the best Putters he's one of the best Putters in the world he that was quite an exciting

thing we got it down to 50 you actually pulled one hole off I watched it yeah all road on you you carried one even more than one hole if you want to but we

uh we we did well we did well you did it

very fun so what leadership qualities

when Eric's hiring did you teach him to look for well I I like the

recommendation business but what I like

best is taking people that are in the company and moving them up you take a

waitress as an example and she becomes

the head of the restaurant you say because you know if certain people are good and when they work for you already

you know you that's better than recommendation but if you don't do that or if you can't do that for some reason

you really need strong reference es and

you and then they have to enjoy their job if they don't enjoy their job they're not going to be very good at it

so I ended up at a table um Ronnie

Barrett yeah Barrett uh 50 cal was a

friend of ours and I ended up at a table with him at an NRA uh convention with

Eric and Donald got to spend some time with both of them and uh you're right they're impressive how do you raise great kids what' you do so the grandkids

are tur out the granddaughter killed it

we have oh how convention wow she's a

great she's a great golfer by the way she's a great speaker too she was good

she was a beautiful person in every way

she took over that whole Republican convention and Kai Kai our beautiful Kai

um so what's your parenting St the one

thing I always told my kids no drugs no

alcohol no cigarettes now in my day there were no

drugs there was alcohol and cigarettes

and and I had brother that went through

a lot with alcohol and and uh he taught

me a lot he really taught me a lot and

my brother Fred and he had a problem

with alcohol to put it mildly and he

would always and he was quite a bit older than me and he'd been through it

and he he would say no alcohol I never

want to see you drink you know very strong and he'd also say no cigarettes

but because you know cigarettes are like

you don't need if you don't smoke if you

don't drink you have no problem with

staying off it when you do drink and you

it gets it's very hard to stay off it I mean I've seen very strong people that

cannot get off but the way you get off

is if you never start if you never start

I never had a glass of alcohol in my life I've never had I've never had a

glass of alcohol if you can believe it I think largely because of my brother I think if I did i' prob I probably would have a problem you know personality type

right but I I never had it last I have

no longing for it I have friends that

are in the wagon as they say and I watch

them watching trays go by the tray is

going by oh it's like they have you know

it's it's a thing that they can't get

over with same with smoking it's tough

I've seen guys just grab somebody's cigarette they they haven't had one in a long time and to them it's like the

greatest sensation if you've never

smoked you never you just don't have that problem so I tell people for their

children no drugs no alcohol and no

cigarettes they they obviously work

really really hard how' you teach them work ethics they have to like what they do if they don't like what they do they do my kids like what they do and I would

say genetically I'm a Believer in

genetics you know I like it I'm I'm good at doing certain things and you know

racehorses like too slow racehorses

don't produce a Kentucky Derby winner

right you know that's not the way it is

but you have to have an ability at something and if if you don't have the ability don't do it but most importantly

do something you like whether it's your parents or not you know your parents want you to go into a business or they want you to go into a store with them if

they have a store I would say that you

have to love what you do if you don't

love what you do it's not going to work

I've never seen it if you don't want to

get up in the morning and go to work now

a lot of people say with all the people

that come after you do you really love

getting up in the morning you understand

that right I be I'm attacked at left and

right but I do because we we make so

much progress we're doing great on the campaign as you probably see we're leading in the campaign now and doing

well we beat Biden and we were up so far

on him and then they said that's like a

fight you're in a fight and they change the fighter in the middle of the right

in the middle of the fight they change the fighter U and now we're we're

beating her very badly I'd be so

interesting to see her in your show so

because I don't believe that she would be able to answer any questions on what

you discuss better than anybody else

well I'm happy to have her if she'd come I'm sure she would be sure she'd love to

come she wouldn't come so I hear you going back to Butler

and finish the speech I am I'm going to

say as I was saying yeah right so when

that happened and you get in the car I

know I saw a clip the other day that Milani was watching on television so she saw the saw the uh shot saw you dodge

saw you go down saw you get up yeah and

how fast were you able to get on the phone talk to her well I know she she

was calling and you know I was a little

tough to take a phone call with blood pouring down your ear yeah people don't

know the ear is the bloodiest part if you get hit in the ear it's it bleeds because there was a lot of blood but uh

no I spoke to her by by the time I got

to the hospital I spoken to her and she was she was sort of watching it um she

had it held off for a couple of minutes

and then somebody called her and said

he's okay he's okay she said what do you mean he's okay what does that mean she

had no idea and then she went back and pressed it and caught up now it was

tough for her tough for my son to he

came out somebody had said uh your

father just got hit and he came in and he was very uh

very riled up yeah it's a tough thing

that was a tough day and and uh I don't

recommend it for anybody I get I get

very lucky or maybe maybe more than luck

yeah if you don't turn your head and start talking about the immigration chart at the precise moment I don't turn

my head at the exact 90° angle if I was

a little off one way or the other it's

uh I'm not doing this very nice

interview with you I wouldn't I wouldn't

be around to do this interview so when

you were in the white house for four years you're you were talking about loving your work earlier um I have the

privilege of loving my work that's why I still work you do that's why I still do it I don't need to obviously anymore just like you don't need to what was the most rewarding thing in the four years that you were

there for you so my whole thing is make

America great again all right that's you know that's where why I do it and we did

it then covid came we did a really good

job on that so it was always

about making it great again I had that I

had the country going just prior to co

coming in at a level that nobody had ever seen and even if you go all four

years it was so good that even with that

terrible Interruption that just destroyed the world we had the greatest

four years the economy was so great the

job numbers were the best ever Etc and I

think just that concept of what I had done the performance yeah but individual

things getting the tax cuts approv biggest tax cuts in history biggest

regulation Cuts in the history of our

country uh rebuilding the military we we

did a job in the mil I rebuilt the whole

military and then you see a lot of that

military being given to Afghanistan

stupidly because they left the country I mean you know and now you see them parading it back and forth uh that was I

think the most embarrassing moment in

the history of our country what they did but there were a lot of individual achievements that we had the creation of

space force you know space force

is now dominating space and when I came

there was no space for it's the first time since Air Force 78 years maybe 80

years by now and we are dominating space

now and we wouldn't be uh we were being

we we were in third place by far and now

we're way in first place and it's very

important militarily it's very important

president Trump thanks for taking time thank you your team told us you got a speech here in a few minutes but we were still able to squeeze this in and I appreciate your time appreciate you hanging out with us a it's a great honor I've watched you for many years I shouldn't say that because but I can say

it from both of us I watched you for many years and a real pro thank you very

much thank you brother good to see you thank you very much thank

---

## 23. Change Starts Today. Don’t Wait Till You’re 65 and Broke | August 20, 2025


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---

[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and co-host of the super hit Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Phone number here is 888255225.

Mark is in North Carolina. Hey, Mark.

How are you?

>> I'm doing very well. I hope you are, sir. >> I'm better than I deserve, sir. What's up?

>> I am 65 years old. I have made

absolutely horrible decisions with money all my life. Uh I have no nest egg. My

wife has maybe 10,000 in a 401k and I've

got maybe a couple thousand.

And uh we have started uh uh the steps

just last payday. We got our $1,000

emergency fund paid and we also got uh

$200 paid down on our smallest unsecured

debt. So now it's only $150 left.

Um I've got uh two other credit cards

and a car loan and a mortgage.

Total debt including mortgage is $137,000.

Um the uh mortgage is a 15-year fixed

rate. Uh it's set up to be paid half a

payment every two weeks. So in 12 months, I've actually paid 13 payments instead of 12.

And since my wife since we don't have

anything lined up for retirement,

I'm trying to figure out what would be the best way for me to go make sure I

get out of all debt with everything I've got. Uh,

I I found out that if I pay just $425

towards my principal each month on my

home, I can have it paid off in five years.

>> What's the balance on your mortgage?

>> 115.

>> Okay. Well, you're scheduled to How How

long um are you into the 15 year?

um 8 months.

>> Okay. So, it's brand new mortgage. All right. Well, doing a bi-weekly, you'll reduce the 15 to about 11 just on the bi-weekly thing that you're doing. Um that that has the same effect of paying an extra payment a year >> as you said, right? >> Cuz 26 halves is 13 holes.

>> And so, you end up with an extra payment a year. And um so that's cool. So,

you've got $22,000 in other debt.

Correct. >> Are you both working still?

>> Yes, sir. >> I'm sorry.

>> Yes, sir. >> What do you make?

>> Uh, the two of us together uh will make

about 105,000.

>> Good news. Okay.

>> First time we've ever broke 100,000.

>> Good for you. Okay. Well, what I would

do is just leave the bi-weekly mortgage alone. Let it run. And let's work the baby steps. Your $1,000 is there. Baby step two is listing your debts smallest to largest, the 22,000.

You need to be done with that in under a year.

>> Well, I can have the uh unsecured debt,

which is minus the mortgage minus the car, uh done in 3 months.

>> Okay, that's good. And so the car is the bulk of the 22 then.

>> Yes, sir. Okay. >> It It's $15,600.

>> Yeah. I I'm saying 22,000 $2,000 a month

is what you need to be putting on your debt or more. >> Uh I'm sorry. I'm not following >> $2,000 a month at least needs to be going on your debt, not counting your house. >> That's 24 grand a year.

So what David >> be done in a year and 24 out of 24,000 out of 105, you got plenty of room to eat. >> Okay. >> So I want you on beans and rice. Rice and beans.

In one year you're 66 and you're debtree. Then you build an emergency fund. Debtree except the house.

So basically, you know, you're like 72 years old still working >> and uh you'll probably have about

200,000 in your nest egg. The house will be paid for and you'll be debtree.

But you're working a while. >> Okay. >> You're working a while because you're broke. Uh >> yes, I am. >> Yeah. Yeah. So that that just plan on that part. As long as your health allows you to do that, then um that's what we're going to do. But yeah, work those baby steps exactly the way they're laid out. Mark, let me send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover to help you get there. But um it it sounds like

that you're very serious about this and it sounds like you're actually going to do it. >> Yeah. The best time to plant the tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is today.

And I'm glad you're going, "All right, I'm going to start plowing away at this debt. Start investing." And you're doing a lot of good things at once right now.

That's 3640,000 $50,000 a year going into that thing. Um, that's how I'm saying you're gonna you're going to be at 200 250,000 pretty s pretty pretty easily if you follow through. But it's going to be you're going to be in the early 70s when you get there. And but you're going into you're going into your retirement years then debtree with a

small nest egg. And 200,000 is a small nest egg. But you can get there.

>> Yeah. You hang on. Kelly will pick up and we'll get you a copy of Total Money Makeover. It shows you it's the baby steps on steroids. It shows you exactly what to do when and work your way through it. Kelly also signed him up for the new the new every dollar uh because that's going to help him guide him through those stuff. It's going to ping him and tell him to do this and do that.

Show him what to do and that it's more than just doing a budget now. So, good stuff. Very good stuff.

George, those are u sobering calls. I'm 65 years old. I have a car

payment. I have credit card debt. I have a mortgage. And I have no money.

that will keep you up at night. So, if you're 35 and you're listening, that

should be a warning shot across your bow.

Listening to Mark and what he's facing.

You need to determine you don't want to be where he is. And so, don't show up at

the doorstep of 65 broke with a car payment. And where that comes from, and

Mark, thank God, he's got a very good tone to his voice. He's got a very good >> He knew his numbers, too. >> You the the sense of he's already changed. He just got He just needed an implementation plan. He's doing it. So, to Mark's credit, way to go, Mark. >> The wake up calls there. That's the hardest part. >> Yeah. Touchdown. But gang, you know,

when people say stuff like, "Well, you're always going to have a car payment." If people say the stuff like that, just go, "I can't hang out with you. You're dumb.

I'll end up like you. I don't want to be as dumb as you. Well, you have to have a credit card to run up your you have to have air miles and you need a credit score. Ask Mark about how valuable that is right now.

>> Yeah. Dumb. >> You think that you think that matters when you're 65 and you got no money? It don't matter. It just shows how stupid those ideas are that people talk about all through the culture. And if you believe those ideas, then you end up, you know, um so you some of you, this is your this is your warning shot. that you're this this is, you know, God

putting this call right in front of you, begging you to straighten your crap up out there. Come on.

[Music]

This show is sponsored by Better Help.

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[Music]

>> Louie is in New Jersey. Hi Louie. How are you? >> Hey, what's up Dave? How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yeah, I got a question. So, in years past, I mean, even recently, I've been getting my health insurance through the uh the marketplace, and it seemed to

make sense as, you know, we were making less money when we first started our businesses. But now that we're doing better and better as time goes on, the numbers are just basically as if I'm paying for regular plans. So, coming up next year, I'll be a family of five and I won't really qualify for a lot of the tax, you know, breaks from it. So, I'm looking at like $1,500 a month in my health insurance, which is, you know, pretty normal.

But when I was running some of the numbers, I'm like, does it even make sense to have health insurance? Cuz I feel like I live in New Jersey, so it's technically, you know, mandatory there. So, I if not, I'd be paying the shared responsibility penalty. So, at my income, I ran the numbers and that would be like4,500 a year.

Now, you know, 1,500 a month, it's $18,000 a year.

assuming you know nothing detrimental happens but like if I told you how many times in the last 6 years we went to the doctors I mean we're pretty natural like holistic people and we don't really go to the doctors that often we don't really take much med medicine >> are you running an HSA >> I am not and I don't know if like I I was almost been thinking of just kind of doing my own because I don't know if I necessarily qualify for it because I think you need to be in a high deductible plan Well, that is a high deductible plan.

You can move into that and that lowers your cost.

here's the problem. You can afford to

take the risk with what you're outlining for the small things.

>> It's the um $250,000 open heart surgery

that'll bankrupt you.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And so you can't you can't afford that risk. And that is actually the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in the US is medical bills.

>> Is medical bills? >> Yeah. It's not it's not credit cards. They're number two. So, um you got to have coverage. But what you do need to do is you need to change your coverage because you've covered everything. And so a high deductible plan is what an HSA

is based on. And so most of them are,

you know, I think mine through my company right now, we run a high deductible as one of our options. which is what I carry on me. And I think it's 5,000 deductibles. Is that or or is it 10? >> I think it depends. There's two options for that. I think I run them the one that has the highest deductible because it lowers your premium. I think it might be eight grand for family, something like that. >> Take the highest possible deductible like $8,000. Make sure you have your emergency fund in place.

>> That and then um but what you're looking for and I you know co-pay is usually going to be still be 8020 after the deductible, >> right? and uh and then and so really the

first 25 or $30,000 is all going to be

out of your pocket a lot of it on a big event. But then the HSAs also the high deductible plans also have a stoploss clause and that's typically $10 to $20,000 which means once you reach that out of pocket the plan pays 100%.

So, you can afford that first amount of risk and you probably can cut your

premiums close to in half by going the way I'm talking about. I don't know for sure, but go shopping. Go to Bluec Cross Blue Shield. Go to uh Health Trust, our

guy on the radio that we endorse here.

Let them search for you and find you the best possible deal. And um they they can

help you get that lined up. They're Ramsey Trusted. They they're good guys.

I've known them a long time. and um you

know uh uh let them search it out and tell them you're needing as high a deductible as possible um with the and

the co-pay could even be large as long as the as long as you got a good stop loss on it. That's your three numbers, the deductible, the co-ay, and the stop-loss. Then the fourth number is the resulting premium.

>> Okay? And so we need we just need to get your premium down. Now then you are also in addition to all that able to invest into a health savings account and you'll

have a maximum that you can do on that and George what's that running this year? >> Uh I believe it's close to 8 grand for family. >> Okay. So I max mine out every year and you and that is uh a taxdeductible

amount going into your HSA. It's a an

after or before tax investment. And um

here's the weird thing, Louis, with what you're talking about. You got a healthy family. That's what the Ramsies have been. Knock on wood. And so I've had an HSA since they first allowed it under George W. Bush. That's what the administration that put it in place. I have never >> touched the savings account.

>> Yes. >> And I fully fund it every year. Now I'm 65 and I can start taking it out like it's a retirement account. And guess what? There's a quart million dollars in there. >> Yeah. right? >> That I would have been paying to some stupid insurance company in extra premiums, but I've had low premiums and I took on the risk.

>> But I didn't take on the risk for I didn't take on the risk for a big thing.

>> Yes. >> It's almost the same as like a catastrophic coverage. Not really the same, but more or less. >> That's what we used to call it before HSAs came out.

We used to call them catastrophics. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Because I'm running these numbers and I'm like, I'm giving these guys way too much money.

I don't even use it. I'm like, I could be and and we do very well, you know. I have a great I have like 500,000 just like liquid at any time if something, god forbid, were to happen. >> It's a small price to pay for peace, Lou.

That's the key here. You're you're not Don't think of it as an investment cuz term life is the same way. Well, I'm not even using the thing. Yeah, cuz you're alive.

>> And so, it's not investment. Insurance, >> you know, same thing with your uh homeowners insurance. You know, you don't carry it for It's defense. It's not offense. >> You're like, "Well, we haven't had a house fire in six years. Can I drop it?" Well, I don't have a crystal ball to tell you nothing's ever going to happen.

>> Yeah. So, Health Tr Health Health Trustfinancial.com.

Okay. >> They'll help you shop around. Tell them you talk to us on the air.

>> And they're good guys. I've known, like I said, I've known them 15 years. And that's why they're Ramsey Trust. That's why we do this with them. And they they have brokers that'll shop different companies and different plans with different companies to find the one that fits your family just right, your family of five. And get it all dialed in here.

And let's get the premium down. you take the first dollar risk. In the health insurance world, we call it first dollar risk. And so, um, the more of the first

few dollars, the more of the first 20 or $30,000 of risk you can take in any insurance, uh, homeowners insurance, car insurance, health insurance, the more of that risk you take, uh, the lower your premium just goes way down. Because if you, every time you go to the doctor, you turn in an insurance claim, it it costs you you're going to pay a bazillion dollars a month for that premium. But if you if you got a thing like I go I I don't even know what I when I have turned in an insurance claim. I just go and pay for it because it's not going to I'm cash flow.

You know, the only time I would ever keep up with it even is if I thought we were in a situation where we were going to hit the deductible and I have to go back and drag the bills together. But any kind of medical thing that Sharon or I do, we just pay for it. um let the money grow because it's not a major thing, you know, and we leave the HSA alone and we, you know, accept the low premium through Ramsey Solutions on my HSA plan. >> So, and I took my car insuranceances up to 10 grand.

>> Mainly li mainly liability, but yeah, but the but the thing Yeah, the still an expensive car. So, you know, we'll we'll cover I'll cover I don't care. I'll cover 20 grand of it. It's not that big a thing. But but the the and then your premiums just plummet. They go way down when you start doing that. But you can't do that till you got a little bit of money. And so you got to have the HSA sa

the savings account portion built up and an emergency fund built up to cover these higher deductibles. But always be looking at that folks and get out of the first dollar of insurance coverage.

Well, I want it to cover everything. No, you don't. It's cost too dang much. Your premiums are going to go through the roof. You don't want that at all. And so

it's the problem with uh vision and and dental is, you know, >> it's a wash. >> It's a wash. What you pay for it, you could have just gone to the dentist. >> So unless it's offered for free through an employer or something, you know, sure, take that. >> Exactly. >> But if you're having to pay out of pocket and I did find out HSA max for 2025 is 8,550.

>> Thank you for looking that up. >> It's close. >> Good. Good. Good. Okay. >> It's a It's a great deal because you get triple tax advantages in that HSA.

>> Yeah. And if you use it, it's a, you know, it's it's a taxdeductible

claim. And so if I, if I did pay out of the HSA, I I don't pay taxes on that

money. So the government in my case is paying 37%.

>> Not a bad deal >> of the of the it would have been taxes, right? And so by the by being a pre-tax plan and and a

tax deductible plan, then you get that.

So it's the best way to go. Oh, and these guys at Health Trust are doing a great job for those of you out there that are facing other health insurance things.

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>> This is silly. George August August is

National Make a Will Month.

>> That's dead serious. If anything, >> got him. Got him.

I'll be here all week.

>> Top five reasons people don't do a will.

And this is not a lie. This is the actual number one, procrastination. 43% of adults without a will say they just haven't gotten around to it.

You're going to die. You probably ought to work on it. Number two, perfectionism. Writing a will involves a few big decisions. Just do the best you can. You're not going to get it right.

And by the way, um, someone's going to be unhappy. Just plan on it. It's kind of part of the thing. Thinking you need a certain amount of assets to do a will.

No, you need a will. If you're 18 years old, you need a will. If you don't have a bunch of assets, it's not a big deal.

But you don't want the government deciding who who takes care of your kids. So, you need to name a guardian, and you need to do that in a will. Hello. Let the government figure out anything. That's a bad idea.

>> Track record's not great there.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Number four, a belief that

everything automatically goes to your family. No, it doesn't. Most of it goes to the lawyers.

If you don't do a will, that's not how that works. And by the way, again, some judge in probate is going to decide this. No, you need to write it out and tell people what it is. Uncertainty about the process. Most people don't know where to start. Well, we can help.

Go to ramseysolutions.com/willsquiz.

It's a free quiz. ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz.

And uh with that, you'll get 25% off at Mama Bear Legal Forms to do a quick online will if you've got a simple estate. Uh it's an easy way to do it.

You can do it in one evening. You'll have it completely knocked out and you'll go, "Why didn't I do that sooner? Gosh, that wasn't even that hard." >> Well, the other stuff is people forget about stuff like, okay, you um you're in a coma.

Who gets to make your medical decisions?

You need a healthcare power of attorney. It's part of a standard will kit. Um, it's one page, but it sure does make everything easier. And you don't have to go before a judge to get permission to treat your husband. Hello.

>> The last thing you want during that time, >> medical power of attorney, >> financial power of attorney, >> financial power of attorney. Something happens and and you know, they need to be able to move some money around so that you can get your bills paid. Hello.

>> So, all these things and again, they're not it's not complicated. You just got to bother to do it. >> Doesn't increase your chances of dying either. Studies show.

>> Yeah. And studies show that you're going to die. That that's detail. We know that's happening. So, you're not getting out of this life. Dalen's in San Antonio. Hi, Dalen. How are you?

>> I'm doing good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Uh, so my question is kind of a two-parter. It's It has to do with combining finances with my spouse as well as uh for our ultimate goal of paying off our house sooner.

>> Okay.

So, I'm guessing I guess the number one thing is um she and I both contribute to

um paying on things that I pay the mortgage and she pays some of the bills and things like that, but we currently have two separate bank accounts. So, I'm not but um we haven't taken the leap of having a joint bank account, but I'm trying to just >> don't really have an answer to that other than um I guess just

the idea of it feels like it's maybe a lack of

maybe it's a lack of control thing. I don't know. >> Yeah. Well, here's the control factor.

When the two of you put all your money in one account and the two of you before the month begins sit down with your every dollar budget and the two of you have a vote about where the money's going to go and you lay out where the money's going to go before the month begins and you both agree to that then

the control is if somebody doesn't do what they agreed they're a liar. They broke a contract. >> Yes, sir. >> And so you've got pure communication right now. You got halfb butt communication because you halfb butt know what's going on and uh but you got pure communication

because it's all laid out on the front end and the two of you together. And here's the actual result. Okay, when we

surveyed the general public, less than

50% of the general public down in the 40

percentile range combine their assets

with their spouse, combine their incomes with their spouse. When we surveyed 10,167 millionaires, 83% combined

their income and their assets with their spouse. And so the result is you have a higher a much higher probability of building wealth and accomplishing your financial goals when you're actually working together instead of acting like your roommates.

>> Yes, sir. >> That's data. That's not a feeling. It's

a fact.

So that's important. And the reason is pretty simple because you get much more efficient use of the money pointed toward a shared goal that we both have agreed to. By the way, the quality of the communication increases in your marriage. Your relationship increases and the quality of your marriage increases overall because you're forcing each other to agree on our fears and our dreams and we're in alignment on those things.

It's a big deal, isn't it, George? >> Yeah. Well, and the other thing it it hides things that are just going to cause resentment later on down the line or spending issues.

She knows what's going on. I know what's going on. And that has allowed us to exponentially build wealth because none of us are sitting here, you know, whittling away our money that we've worked so hard for. >> It controls how many purses Sharon buys and how many guns I buy.

>> Copy. Yes, sir.

The question is which one costs more?

>> Ah, there's the question. That's I'm just telling you. >> I know. I'm curious. A pistol cost two purses, George. I'll just tell you. I know. I know what the tradeout is. >> That's called Dave math right there. So, Dalon, have you guys combined uh in other ways? Is she on the mortgage? Is she on the deed?

>> Uh, yes, sir. She is on the mortgage kind of how it's been. Well, so kind of

how it's been going. Um, I've been paying I've been paying the mortgage and she has been taking care of some of the utilities, but her main the main thing is that she's she does have student loan debt. So, um, who makes more money?

>> Encouraged her to >> um, currently I believe I do.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, what do you make?

>> I just I make about um 84,500 a year.

>> What do you think she makes?

Uh well, so she hers varies, but she's a

she's a she's a she's a therapist and so she makes based upon patients. So it can vary between 800 to 3,500 a paycheck. It

just depends.

>> But I mean like when you're doing your taxes for a year, what's the lady make?

>> I want to say it's I want to say at best hopefully probably about or 84 to 85. Uh >> okay. So, you got $150 $160,000 income.

That's the point. Okay.

>> And um how long y'all been married?

>> Uh be two years in October.

>> Who's the more detailed nerd in the bunch? You or her? You?

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Me, too. At my house. I'm the nerd at my house. And that makes her We call them nerds and free spirits. Who's the nerd? Who's the free spirit? My wife is the free spirit. Who's the spender and who's the saver?

I'm the saver. >> Okay. And she's the spender. Okay. So, she's a free spirit spender and you're a

saving nerd. All right. Now, here's what's going to end up happening when you combine. She's going to feel

controlled at first by this whole process because she likes to be un uh uh she doesn't like being

having a harness on her. Okay. But she's going to learn that we're not controlling the spending, but in instead what we're doing is designating the spending. So she gets to basically my daughter Rachel is like your wife. She's a a a free spirit spender. Okay. And

Rachel finally when she and Winston started doing the budget and they're early in their marriage, she determined that the budget is not a restriction on her spending. It's permission to spend.

Because now whatever's in a category that is spending for your wife, she can do without any guilt or worry of retribution from you because you've agreed about it before the month begins.

>> It actually sets her free to do what she

does. Now, I'm a nerd spender, so I'm a little different. So, I I plan out my

spending and that way I know I'm being responsible about it. So, that helps.

And my wife is wants to plan out our saving cuz she's a saver. So, you get to

do your saving, you get to do your spending, everybody gets a vote. All of this is reflected in our plan, and she's

going to help you have fun, and you're going to help her retire and not have to eat dog food.

>> It's a good team right there. >> Yeah. And it's it that you need each other. If two people just alike get married, one of you is unnecessary.

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David is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi, David. How can we help?

>> Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure.

>> Um, so I'm 29 and my wife is 27. Um,

we're both self-employed and our only debt is our mortgage and it's about 30% of our gross income.

Um, it's I mean it's been doable but it's felt a little bit tight at certain times especially after our investing and newborn expenses.

Um, so my question is is it or would it

be smart to sell our current home and invest all of that net profit into a Roth retirement and then just start over in a small starter home? So, um, in

doing so, we'd have 160,000 in Roth

funds at our age, and without ever contributing, we'd have about

>> Your your phone's breaking up.

>> Honey, your phone's breaking up. I have no idea what you said. You saidund and something 100. What' you say 100? How much going into into into retirement?

>> We'd have about 165,000 in Roth funds.

>> Okay. No, it's not Roth. You can't put it all in a Roth. The only thing you can put in a Roth is a rollover from a retirement. You can't put home equity all in a Roth in one year. You can put $8,000 in in a year, >> but that's the most you could do. >> Well, we uh we have Roth 401k, so I

could do around 20,000 each of us because we're both self-employed and including your Roth IAS.

>> Okay. You can Yeah, you can move it that way, but you can't just move 150 from your house into a Roth. You'd have to do through the some of those vehicles. Why is your business not growing?

>> I mean, it's growing. Um, we started out

about a 100 on average.

>> Man, your phone is sucks.

>> Try again. >> It's an iPhone 10. Um, so we started

out.

>> I'm done. We tried. >> All right. We tried. Open phones at 88 8255225.

If your business sir is increasing in

profitability and increasing in revenue, you can keep the house and you should keep the house. Um, but I I think the

problem is not the house and the problem is not the Roth IAS. The problem is you're not making enough out of your business. So, you guys need to make some career decisions. Either this business needs to get up, get running, and increase your income using that or you need to consider if this business is really viable or not. That's what you're looking at. James is in Denver. Hey,

James. What's up? >> Hi. How you doing today?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, uh I was hoping that you could guide me in the right direction. I am uh

contemplating retiring early and I'm quite young for what I was born and raised to realize that it's retired. I just turned 38 years old.

>> Okay. Um Okay. What do you mean by retire?

not uh not grind a a day job every day

that I'm worried about.

>> Okay. So, you want to sit on your butt for 40 years?

>> Uh I basically sit on my butt, maybe hike, maybe golf, maybe get out to work.

>> Dave does a lot of that. Yeah, I still work. Um

I I uh Okay, there's two questions here

that are built into this issue. Question number one is uh the philosophy of that

and question number two is the math of that. Can you afford to do it?

>> How much money do you have invested and saved?

>> Um right now I have about three and a half million in the market.

>> Okay. Then you can retire >> couple houses and >> you got you got enough. You've done great. Congratulations. Now what were you doing for a living?

I was doing technology sales and done quite well at the >> Yeah, you've done fabulously. Congratulations. Very proud of you.

That's excellent. So, definitely mathwise, I mean, I'm sure you can live on 300 grand a year.

>> Hello. >> Sure. >> I'm sorry.

>> No, I said sure. Absolutely.

>> Okay. Then, you know, three and a half million at 10%'s going to produce that.

At 8% it's going to produce that. And that's not counting your rental houses.

So yeah, you'd math. So the math question is yes, you can retire. Um I will tell you having met with wealthy people and people who were successful as

as successful or more successful than you at an early age, the ones that attempted to do nothing have not had a high quality life.

Golf and hiking just don't do it, man.

>> Yeah. I'm I'm after a few months of this, I'm starting to get that that uh >> Well, I can tell you the pattern. >> You've already done it. >> It It goes from >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute. Have you already quit?

>> No.

Job as a, you know,

>> do we have any phones that work on this planet? >> How is technology not improved over the last 30 years? Are you doing this, Dave?

>> Yeah, I don't know. So, okay. Anyway, the the answer to your question is yes.

Mathematically, you can retire and um

philosophically you can control how much you work and you can increase the number of hikes and the number of rounds of golf. But I tell I will tell you that

you will have a much higher quality life

and your wife will be happier with you if you are doing something.

Even if you start your own business and you work it five hours a day or four hours a day average you work it, you know, some days you work it three days a week. Some I've got a friend that um has a house in uh uh Aspen and he has a

house in uh the mountains in North Carolina and he goes back and forth between those and he works from his computer running a business. uh but he

doesn't work but you know a couple hours a day three or four hours a day but he's still engaged still being creative still

having strategic thought still you know doing something and um so you know in my

case I love what I do so I have no desire to walk away from it and I intend to do this until I don't make sense anymore um and then they will take me off the air but um and there's all kinds of plans behind my back to make sure that that happens but um but I mean I don't have any reason to not come down here because it's been I mean I could have quit at 38. I was done financially.

>> Yeah, the math >> financially financially I was done at 38 easy probably before that. And so um but

the uh but I this is God's call on my life. And so I would I get great joy from it. It would be ridiculous to not be engaged and put your hand to a plow that causes things to grow. And so that's what I want for you.

you've obviously got high capacity and it would be a shame for the high capacity to be on the end of a fishing pole and so as your only thing you do with your life. So I just I don't recommend that for you and I don't find retirement in the Bible by the way. Um I don't think it's evil if you do. I don't think I don't think you're doing anything wrong.

I don't think it's immoral. But uh and it may be that just in biblical times people had to work because they were always hungry. But um but it it could be that and we may be you know have advanced our finances beyond that at the in at this stage.

making a it's not a moral statement.

It's a matter of the way we seem to be wired as humans. We do better if we've got our hand to something. >> Exactly. As I've looked into the the this is the fire movement. Financially independent retire early. And this is the exact pattern I've seen. It's short-term fund. Woo. I don't work for the man anymore. And that lasts for two weeks or a month. Then it leads into boredom which leads into depression which leads into a search for purpose again which then leads to the thing you should have been doing all along. Yeah.

>> That's what people do. They spin up a new business that fires them up. And I think that's what our friend here needs to do is go find the thing that actually gets them excited to go to work and then it's a shift. >> Wrote a wonderful book I recommend to you called Halime.

uh, you have a midlife crisis. If all you do is stay, if you're a 60-year-old and you're still in acquisition mode, you know, you're you're you're going to fall into midlife crisis. And so, um, be

careful with that. Um, and

you know, I just I I again, you're right, the FIRE movement has failed miserably in terms of quality of life.

And so this idea that I'm financially independent, independent from what? You still have human beings you're interacting with and they're out there.

They're called life. And you're going to have to still be a nice person, and you're still going to have to, you know, do, you know, but here's the thing. If you have high capacity, there's stuff God needs you to do on the planet. do something of size, do something of scale, and I don't care what it is, >> but now you can do it on your terms, and that's the beautiful part. >> Yeah, that that's how I would go at it.

So, cool stuff.

>> Thanks for calling in.

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

And Alex is Alexis rather is with us in Miami. Hi Alexis. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Um I'm amazing. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Oh well. So, um I'm calling you today because I love uh all the advice, financial advice, and even kind of a spiritual advice that you give your listeners. Um and I've kind of stumbled upon um a big chunk of change. And before I make any rash decisions, I'd love to talk to you about it first.

>> What kind of stumbling and what kind of chunk of change? >> Right. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. So, um, a few months ago, my husband tried to be, um, a superstar husband, and he

bought me a fancy car. Um, it was a 2025

black badge, um, all black, red interior Rolls-Royce, and he bought it for me in hopes that I would be, you know, having having fun in like a mom car. But, um,

you know, I don't want to be, you know, ungrateful, but it's not the color I asked for. It's not the style of car I asked for. Um, >> what were your demands originally?

>> I wanted a drop top Bentley.

>> Oh, >> I wanted I wanted to feel the wind in my hair. I wanted to be able to like, you know, my girls are coming over. We just like hop in my car and then we just skirt off. I don't like having to like remove car seats. >> Sometimes I get my wife's Starbucks order wrong. So, I totally relate to this. Yeah, >> I know. I know. I knew you guys would understand. >> Yeah. >> So, anyway, um, so Stop. Stop. Stop.

Stop. I can't breathe. Um, >> okay. >> The, uh, household income is what?

>> Well, my husband does crypto, so there's some months where we make millions of dollars and then some months where we don't make anything. You know, it's just all about how my husband strategizes his time, but he does what he can, you know, when you punk us.

>> Oh my god. No, you can look me up. Like, I'm giving you my birth name and everything. No, I'm not punking you.

This is real life.

you called me about a $600,000 car and your husband's job is crypto and these are obviously none of the things we talk about on this show. So we we would never recommend any of this but um >> No, no, that's why I was hesitant to, you know, be live on air about it. But what I'm saying is, you know, I I not in love with this car and I'm looking to sell it and we have an offer for it and I don't >> Oh, well then sell it.

>> Okay. And then what do I do with the money? Just like now have money with >> I don't know. Is it not your husband's money too?

>> No, it is. But, you know, it was a gift to me. So, now I'm able to like reinvest it or, you know, do something with it that's a little bit more important than just like have it sitting in my driveway. >> I thought you were going to get a drop top Bentley.

>> I mean, I now I don't even care about a fancy car at all. I just would like to do something a little bit more interesting than have it sit in my driveway.

>> I mean, time has gone by and now I'm like, you know, a little bit more mature and, you know, things like that aren't interesting to me. You know, having having something like that in my driveway is a liability. and you know if I I'm been told to put my money in this way and then you know I'm I'm being pulled in many directions of what I should do with a >> Sounds like if you asked your husband he'd want to invest it in crypto.

>> Yeah, but I don't want to do that. >> Why? >> I don't understand it. I don't understand it. So I don't want to do it. He can do what he wants and you know this is something that was gifted to me and I want to make a little um you know more thoughtout decision with it.

>> Okay. Well honey I mean you just you're

going to have to pick you out something you want to do with it. Um, there's so much broken about this whole process that I don't know where to begin to help you fix it. Um, number one process should be that two grown-ups living

together um don't have uh don't buy

$600,000 cars without the other one being involved in the decision. For that matter, they don't buy $6,000 cars without the other one being made in the decision. And number two, um, two

grown-ups living together share their assets, their liabilities, their incomes, their dreams, and their fears.

And so it's not like you have your own little private party account over here as a result of selling a 2025 Rolls-Royce. So that's that's not how it should work. So, I disagree with your premise and um so I I would coach you

guys to start working together and you know uh begin to invest in some real investments, not just crypto and um and

both of you uh for that matter. And uh

otherwise your life is just going to continue to be extremely volatile. And if volatility is purchasing a 2025

Rolls-Royce that is the wrong interior color and then turning around and selling it. If that's volatility, that's that's volatility. And that's there's a lot of chaos around this whole process.

And none of this is going to lead to peace in your home, peace in your future, calmness. Uh you guys are just

run around 63 different directions. Life in the fast lane should be your theme song. So, um, >> yeah, we need some shared goals, shared vision. And so far, your shared goals have been, let's get rich quick and have a bunch of vanity, which is fun, but you found out very quickly it didn't last the test of time, >> I guess, >> when you reassess.

I'm not sure how long the time frame was. It feels like it was two weeks, but um that's a fairly quick short period of time to grow up, but um it apparently worked. I don't know. So, there we go.

Hayden is with us in Minnesota. Hi, Hayden.

>> I'm well. How are you? I'm better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I am 24 and I would like to

purchase an engagement ring.

>> Yay. >> Go along with that. >> That's awesome. You got some money saved. >> Thank you. >> I do. >> When you go pop the question.

>> Um, hopefully soon. Probably within a month or so once I get all this stuff squared away. >> Yeah. I got to have a plan, man. I like it. So, what do you make a year?

Um, last year I made 85 and this year will be about 85.90.

>> Okay. And how much you got saved for the ring?

>> Um, in a high yield account right now I have about 40. >> Okay. >> A 401k from an employer about 10.

>> But I mean in that four is that the 40 is not allocated to the ring.

>> No, no, no. >> Okay. How much you got to save for the ring?

>> Well, so that's where I kind of want to figure out my question to you is how much I should spend on that ring. One month's income >> goal.

>> Okay. >> Jewelry store will tell you three months.

>> Do you think so? I would like to We've had a kind of the goal to go on a vacation. Neither of us have ever been out of the country. >> Well, that' be like the honeymoon, right?

>> Kind of. Yeah, pretty much. Um, so that

encompassing with the ring, would you say that that changes things?

>> No, I just I just That's different.

>> What I would spend on the ring is 10 grand or less.

Okay. >> And what I spent on the trip is what I spent on the trip. And you got the money to do both.

>> Okay. Right. >> Get her something nice. >> There is no correlation between the size of the ring and the probability of the marriage being a success.

>> Except possibly an inverse correlation, meaning the larger the ring, the the better the chance it fails. But most high quality marriages are not based on the size of the ring. In other words, so um lots of people get married with something out of the bubble gum machine.

Um Sharon Ramsay married me with a point. O00 whatever chip that you could

barely see and uh now she wears a headlight. So >> there's no decimal points in that one.

>> So it's not, you know, she does whatever she wants now, right? But that's, you know, 43 years of putting up with me.

You get a ring. So that's it. And you get a ring and you know there. So anyway, that you the the starter ring is fine. 10 grand and you've saved the money to do it. Um, shop around, learn a

little bit about diamonds. They're not an investment. That's the biggest lie ever. I bought a bunch of them. None of them have ever gone up. They don't go up in value. The only value is her smile.

That's it. That's the only thing it gives me of value. The rest of it's just it's in the box. It's >> Figure out her taste, figure out the budget, and then just go for it.

>> Diamonds are forever. Diamonds are a girl's best friend. Those are jewelry marketing lines. >> You need better friends.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

Christopher is in Denver. Hi, Christopher. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing well. Glad to be here.

>> Good. How can we help?

Um, so I'm calling essentially because I

quickly accumulated um quite a bit of debt in about three months >> and at the same time um from gambling.

>> Oh, have you stopped gambling?

>> I have stopped. >> I have. Yes.

>> What were you betting on?

>> Um online crypto casinos like Blackjack

for the most part. >> Yeah. And how much debt did you build up?

>> Um built up close to 40 37

>> $37,000 in three months from gambling.

Okay. >> Right. >> On credit cards. >> Total losses were about triple that. But uh yes, all credit cards. Yep.

>> Okay. Your losses were triple that.

>> Yeah, total. That was the 37 was just the debt.

>> And the you have money before and the 60,000 was savings you went through.

>> Yeah. savings portfolio, crypto holdings. Um, >> so I'm curious why it took $100,000 for you to figure out this was a stupid idea.

>> You know, I really thought I was going to get it back, >> um, but that's how it goes, man.

>> Says every gambling addict. Yeah. So, uh, >> exactly. >> How old are How old are you?

>> 27. >> What's your household income, sir?

>> Um, well, I'm self-employed. I've been running a company for a little over 5 years, so it varies dramatically, but like last year was 88.

>> You made $88,000 last year. What do you think you're going to make this year?

>> Um, probably 115.

>> Okay, that's good. Very good. Good for you. Okay. Are you single?

>> I am. >> Okay. And and your question is what then, sir?

Well, when I went through this partially because of my self-employment status, um I mean, my initial once I decided I'd had enough and it was time to quit. Um my initial thought was I should be consolidating this somehow because you know the 25 28% whatever it is on these cards is unnecessary is what it felt like I should I should put into a consolidation loan. Um and I went to do that to probably 14 banks or whatever. I tried everywhere and no one would give it to me partially because of recent behavior and like how quickly it came up um and credit utilization.

>> You're what's known as a bad credit risk because you've been doing stupid stuff. Yeah, that makes sense. >> I wouldn't argue with them. Yeah, >> that's what makes that makes sense.

Yeah.

Um, so the next place that a lot of them

tried to push me was to debt relief programs like you went where no new no

new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no you're going to

the only way a debt relief program works is if you quit paying everyone >> and you go into default and then they negotiate lower rates to re finally get the credit card company repaid you don't need to do that you make $ 105,000 you're single you need $37,000 you need to start paying $3,000 $3,000 to $4,000

a month on these credit cards and make them go away. Interest rate becomes irrelevant when you pay this off in one year.

>> Yeah, that's that's a good point.

Definitely. >> So, that's what we're going to do. We're going to work like we like our life depended on it. We're not going to do anything except work for the next year.

We're not going out to eat. We're not going on vacation. And we're going to clean up these credit cards. List the credit cards smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. And um how many cards are

involved?

>> Five. Almost four. I've almost gotten rid of the uh the smallest one, but five total. >> Okay. So, four cards on 37,000. So,

you're averaging about 8 or 9,000 bucks a piece, right?

>> Yeah. Average, I suppose. They are.

>> Who are they with? Who are they with?

>> Chase is the biggest one. Um got about 18 on it. >> Mhm. Okay. call Chase and tell them you

talked to your financial advisor who

said to close down the account and never

do business with Chase again if they don't lower the interest rate that we're going to move the we're going to move the balance to somebody else to a lower rate if you don't lower my rate today.

They'll drop it. >> Cool. Okay. >> And do that with every one of them. They'll drop it. That'll help a little, but interest rates not your problem.

It's behavior shift. You're going to go from an intense gambler to an int intense debt repayment guy.

>> Yeah. >> Do you have any other debt?

>> I do. Um I got a car that's about 22 on

it and student loans for 16.

>> Okay. Well, just put all those in that same list then. Let's just keep going. It's going to take two years then.

>> Yeah. To to get it all. That would be Yeah, that'd be great. I think if if it was done in two, I'd be a happy guy. >> Yeah. >> Are you done with crypto?

Yeah, I um I've I've stopped completely since. Um and I've had other addictive

struggles in the past and and was able to sort of uh treat this one the same way that uh you know got a good community around me. >> So, okay. Well, and and in a sense, um

we're going to use the positive attributes of an addict, which would be focus um and um singular focus. Uh and we're going to use that on this debt. Cool.

>> You get after it. Don't look up until it's gone. Kill it and then make it a permanent line in the sand that we never go back for anything. And obviously,

um, gambling is not a method of wealth building. We figured that out, too, didn't we? Went through 100 grand in just a few months >> and ending up with a net of $37,000 worth of debt. It's the Hey, I told I was on a podcast this morning as a guest and the guy was asking me what was going on with sports betting. I said, I think it we're seeing it almost every about

about one about twice a week we're seeing a call right now where people's lives have been ruined by FanDuel.

>> Yeah. >> And ruined by MGM Gold or whatever cuz

uh because they're they're out of control. >> The advertising is relentless. You can't go anywhere without getting this. >> The reason is they make so stinking much money. Where do you think they got the money to buy all that advertising? From the losers. That's where they got the money, which is everyone that plays it, right? And so, um, that's they end up losing and it's a it's mythology, but it's very addictive.

>> Well, it's become socialized to where it's no big deal because we're all watching the game. It's not I'm not at a casino. >> It's not fun to watch the game unless I got something on it. Yeah, it is. It's a lot more fun. By the way, >> it's a game. I just need to remind you that >> I didn't know that online crypto casinos. That's a three words that should never go together. That's frightening. That's got to be some kind of seventh circle of hell.

Dante, he's even shaking in his boots.

>> Man, >> what are your demands?

>> Tristan's in Florida. Hey, Tristan.

What's up? >> Hi there. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, I own and operate a photography business. Um, my soon to be wife is

planning on resigning from her 9 toive job and uh starting to work with me full-time. Um, since I'm a one I've been

up to this point a oneman show, um, I have no idea how to structure my finances um to pay her to or at least have her um

income come through um the business as well. >> If it's her wife, it doesn't matter,

>> right? >> You don't even need an income through the business. The business makes a profit. Y'all take the profit home and eat.

>> Okay. But as far as like um >> whether you get six and she gets four, it's just 10 ending up in that same checking account, right?

>> Correct.

>> So you got a business checking account already? >> Yes. >> Okay. And you have your personal and you've been transferring money over to pay yourself. >> Yeah, exactly. Whenever I need money, I just transfer it over, but I try to keep my expenses very low. >> Same thing.

>> Okay. >> Will she be increasing the revenue of the business? >> Yeah. Yeah, that's the whole >> I hope so. I hope y'all make more if both of you are working there. Yeah.

>> And and so what what we need to do the first step is is for the keep everything completely separate. Run the business as if you're running it for someone else. Like George said, a separate checking account. He's exactly right.

>> Okay. >> And then you pay only business expenses with that account. And you only put money into that account that comes from the business. >> Right. >> Okay. And so the net that's in that account by definition is profit.

>> Okay? >> If revenue goes in, expenses go out, what's left is profit.

>> That's the definition from an accounting standpoint. Obviously, you need a good set of books, too. Then I would leave some in the business for retained earnings, the equivalent of an emergency fund in business. We need a little pad in there.

And then the rest of it comes home and that's profit. And you can do that just as a monthly decision. How much we're going to bring home out of there. We made this much profit.

We're going to leave a little in the business for retained earnings. We're going to bring the rest of it home.

You need to hold a fourth of that out for taxes. 25% of it out for taxes in a

separate account so you can pay your quarterly estimates and then take the rest of it home. And that's the easiest way to do it. The next step is you could really start making some serious money. You can start paying actual salaries out. But it's not necessary to do that.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music] [Applause]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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[Music]

Well, if you've never been able to visit the lobby of Ramsey Solutions and watch us do this show on the glass, uh, which we do from 1 to 4 Monday through Friday, um, you're going to get a special treat. We're going to take the show on the road and let you come and watch us do a show. And better than that, you will be asking the questions from the audience on a live mic. That's fun.

If you ever wanted to see the person who's calling in, you're going to see them. They're going to be in the room. Now's your chance.

going on tour. Experience live Q&A, raw confessions, crowd debates, and a local debtree scream. It's all happening live.

The first one will be September the 30th in Chicago. Rachel, Ken, and George

will gonna be doing this show live on stage with an audience of about 300 folks. Tickets are a whole $39.

Oo, super expensive. >> I think the Uber to the venue is going to cost you more. >> Uh, for sure. >> That's an amazing price. >> Yeah. In Chicago, for sure. Yeah. So, anyway, you get to come and hang out, but the problem with them being $39 is they're going to be gone in about 20 minutes. So, if you want tickets, you probably ought to go buy them like quickly.

>> Intimate experience. 300 seats in each venue. And so, they're going to go fast.

And it's going to be a blast to go on the road and be amongst the people.

>> Amongst the folks, Orlando, October the second. We're doing two this fall, Chicago and Orlando. September 30 and October 2. And in Orlando will be Jade,

John, and George. You're doing both of them. >> I Someone had to chaperone John and so they sent me out there with them just to make sure. Someone had to chaperone Ken on the other one. So there you go. Yeah, we got to take care of We got to send a grown-up. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> So, I'll be headed straight from Chicago to Orlando. It's going to be a fun time.

And uh this is this is the kind of event that you're It's going to be hard to experience through radio or video. You You want to be in the room for this kind of experience. And if you haven't experienced it live, now's your chance cuz we've never done something like this. >> Never have. First time.

>> So, uh Ramsey Show live Chicago September 30. Rachel, Ken, George, Jay, John, and George Orlando, October 2nd.

Uh, click the link in the show notes if you're on the podcast or YouTube. Any otherwise, go to ramseyolutions.comvents.

Jenny's in Idaho. Hi, Jenny. How are you? >> Hi. Hi, Dave. I'm good, thank you.

>> Cool. How can we help?

>> I'm 61 years old, uh, newly single. I live in Lington

housing.

I have 22,000 left over from the sale of my house

in Oregon and

I don't know what to do. I'm

>> newly single. Divorced.

>> Sorry, what did you say? >> You said newly single. Are you divorced?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. What do you do for a living?

I work at a training center. I'm a cashier, but I only get about 25 hours a week.

>> Okay. So, what are we doing to get a better job? That one sucks

>> there. Um,

because of my bad knees, I

I have a I have a bunch of stuff in a storage unit that needs to be sold.

>> That one what I asked I asked what you're doing to get a better job. The job you have sucks.

>> Nothing right now. >> Okay. >> You're a cashier and you can't stand >> and you got 20 and you got 25 hours a week. So, we need to do we need a new job. Yes, sir. That's true. >> You're starving to death.

>> Uh, not technically because I still have the 22. >> Technically, but I mean finan mathematically you don't have any money is my point.

>> That is correct. >> And the reason is is you don't have much income. So, we've got to work on your career, kiddo.

>> Yeah. And I have no retirement. Zero.

>> Well, we've got to work on your career, kiddo.

You got 22,000 in the bank and you're you're living in a rental property and you sold your house. You gone through a divorce. >> Okay. And you're scared, which is understandable. >> Okay. >> Not to mention stressed.

>> Yeah. Stressed and scared. Now, that's fair. Okay. But let let's just pretend for a second if we could wave a wand.

And we don't have a wand and we're not going to do it. I know. >> But let's pretend for a second.

>> Let's say you started making $50,000 a year.

I've never made 50,000 a year.

>> I said, let's pretend.

>> Okay, >> go with me on the ride, girl. All right, here we go. You're making $50,000 a year. You have $4,000 a month coming in.

You're 61. You have $22,000 in the bank.

All of the sudden, everything changes.

My point of this pretend ride is that

uh you your problem is an income problem. >> Yes. And so when I fix the income problem in our pretend ride or our dream here for a second, all the stress and the fear starts to go away because it's all really revolves and goes back to that one thing and and that's our biggest deal here. So have you got any uh you got some bad knees? Okay. Do you have a degree in anything?

>> No, sir. >> What's the most you've ever made?

>> 36,000. >> Cool. What were you doing? I was working

at a municipal airport as a custodian

working for the city. >> Cool. How long ago was that?

>> Two years. >> Two and a half years. >> Not bad at all. Okay.

>> Well, >> could you still do that kind of work physically?

>> No, sir. >> The knees have gone, huh?

>> Amen. Yep. >> Okay. All right. cuz I was about to put you into the maid service business cuz you can make $25 to $50 an hour cleaning people's houses, but that's probably not going to work here. Okay.

>> No. No. >> So, this is how I want us to be. This is how I want us to be thinking. I want to be thinking about what we can do that gets Jenny's income rocking. And it

might be a self-employed thing. It because that way you can kind of control it >> rather than just looking for a jo O. A 61y old bad knees looking for a job is tough. Yes. >> Okay. But if we dream up something that you could physically do, that'd be pretty cool. Okay. Uh what what's what's another good job you've had in the past?

>> I've been a caregiver. I've been a cook.

>> Oh, those are great.

>> I I can't do caregiving anymore, though, because of my knees and my back. Yeah.

>> You could cook.

>> Yes, sir. I can cook. >> Okay, there we go. Let's Let's talk about that a minute. I don't know. I'm just I'm just dreaming with you here because I do know that 25 hours a week as a cashier is not our plan. It's not going to get us where we need to go. So, we something's got to change. You agree with me on that?

>> Absolutely. >> All right, kiddo. All right. So, I think you can do this. We've just got to start um you know I want to stick my head up through the fog of the fear and start looking for the sunshine again >> and start aiming at something. That's where I'm trying to go with this conversation. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yep. >> And cuz I think I think you still got stuff you can do and I don't know exactly what it is but I'm going to go figure out something that I start making$25 $30 an hour and I'm able to do 40 or 50 hours a week and I'm able to do it with your back and your knees. And that's possible. Well, there's things you can do with your mind and with your cooking. Uh, it doesn't always have to be manual labor. Right.

>> Right. Okay. >> I love the upcycle.

>> I've got a bunch of furniture that needs to be uh >> sold.

It's fixed and sold. Yeah. Yeah.

>> You ever been on eBay?

>> I You ever been on Facebook Marketplace?

>> I am technically challenged.

>> You ever been on Facebook Marketplace?

>> Could someone help you get a little Facebook Marketplace account set up? Any grandkids around? >> Take some iPhone pictures and list it.

>> Get your grandkids to show you how to set up an eBay store and a Facebook marketplace store. Let's start buying stuff at garage sales and reselling it.

>> I'd love that, but I already have enough stuff here to sell. >> Well, go ahead and sell. Let's start with that stuff. You got a good inventory to get started. >> Let's get a Facebook marketplace up and use that to learn sell the crap off and get that storage unit cleaned out. And then you can go buy a chair for $2 at a garage sale and sell it for $50 on eBay.

Okay. >> And you can make $100,000 a year screwing around with that.

Well, >> this is businesses around this.

>> I'm now I'm excited, Jenny. This is going to be great.

>> But you're going to have to get somebody to teach you this technical stuff. But hey, I'm I'm 65 and I've learned enough of it to get through it. I can I mean I there is one guy that works here that fixes all the stuff I break. But other than that, I mean, you can learn how to do it. You can do it. Hey, hang on. And I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, uh, Proximity Principle,

which will help you with your career idea. But I think you need to I think you need to start buying and selling stuff on eBay and Facebook Marketplace.

>> Try that out on the side. >> Yeah. There was a guy one year that made what was it? He made $800,000 only reselling golf clubs. Wow. He would buy

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[Music]

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>> Today's question comes from Spencer in Texas. I have my $1,000 emergency fund and my three months of expenses already saved. I'm planning to get engaged soon and have a question. Is that money I made and contributed pre-marriage our $1,000 and three months of expenses or should I take out half of what I contributed and put it towards a joint investment account and have her slowly rebuild the other half of the emergency fund?

This way it won't feel like she's marrying into financial security and all the sacrifice and dedication I made before we got married.

and the three months of expenses on top of that. So he has both. He's got he's got a fully funded emergency fund. He's saying, "Should I take out half and make her build it so that she doesn't feel like she's riding a gravy train?" >> Let me help you, son. That ain't a gravy train.

It's just an umbrella.

It's not like you're some prize.

Oh my gosh.

>> This is wild. Uh, no. Don't do not do

that at all. Unless you want to start off your marriage with >> Don't start off your marriage trying to be her parent. Really dumb idea.

Yeah, I'm going to make her learn her little lesson, the little lady. Oh my god, you arrogant. No way, dude. She's

going to smack you left away from Sunday. This ain't going to work.

>> It sounds like you're bitter for some reason cuz you're saying, "I made all the sacrifice and dedication." I don't know what she's bringing into this. Maybe she's got some debt. Maybe she hasn't been as disciplined with money as you have. But this is a recipe for disaster if you approach. >> You got you got some pre-marriage counseling to do, honey. And uh I hope somebody talks straight to you in that process because the words you're using are not going to help you relationally.

You're going to struggle and you're going to struggle fast if she's got a backbone. That is so um Yeah,

I'm going >> I'd love to see this conversation play out though. >> Uh no. Yeah. Just for the entertainment factor. >> Entertainment. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. But not not because it's going to be successful. No. successful is honey,

you really hadn't done much yet. So, don't be patting yourself on the back so hard you'll you'll twist your elbow. The the second thing is is you don't want to use language on your uh spouse ever, especially when you're just about to get married that sounds like a parent instead of a husband. A husband is a teammate, not a parent. And uh you're

you're not there to teach her little you teach the little lady lessons. That's not your role. Uh if you think it is, you're about to have a long freaking life. And so, um, y'all got some work.

You got some work to do on all this. >> Yeah. I would not get engaged until you're actually comfortable combining your entire life instead of dangling this as some sort of punishment and thing to be earned. >> Yeah. How how about it's your job to serve your spouse.

Oh, that'd be different.

H >> cuz if you're going, "Well, she's got to put in 50% and I got to put in that's going to be just tit fortat scoreboard keeping." That's an exhausting way to live. >> Yeah. And um your job is to serve each other.

So that's how this works. We're there for each other. We're not there to

um keep score. Man, scary.

Austin Witchah Tech, Kansas. Hi, Austin.

How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up,

>> Bill? Longtime listener. Finally jumped on the plan here in the last month or two. um looking in a year should have all my consumer debts paid off and another probably four months after that have my emergency fund saved up. Uh my question

is when it gets to the part of saving a down payment for a house um we currently own a home um have a mortgage on it and

our five-year plan would to be to find something a little bigger. So would you recommend I mean could we count our equity as part of a down payment and should we still save up a down payment or move on to four five and six and pay extra towards the house or how would you go about that? >> Well I mean you're going to sell the house right?

>> Correct. Yes. >> Yeah. So then you've got the equity in your hand and that is the down payment.

So sure of course that counts to the down payment. Um, and if you want to add, if you want more than the equity to put down on the next house and you had some savings built up, too, I guess that would be ideal, wouldn't it?

>> Yes. >> What's the house worth? What what equity how much equity have you got now?

>> So, we're we owe about 94 on it and it's worth around 140 150.

>> Okay. So, you got like 50 grand. And how long before you do this deal?

Uh, I mean, we're we're obviously not looking until we get their emergency fund and all that saved up. So, it's it's within the five-year plan, but of course, it's finding the right >> Okay. So, 5 years from now, maybe you owe 75 and it's worth 200.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Which would then mean that you I'm just making the numbers up, but I mean, then you'd have like, you know, 125 to put down and you might have saved up some money, too.

>> Okay. The other way to do it is just use the mortgage as a forest savings plan and just start plowing through that mortgage once you guys are debtree with the emergency fund >> and then you have all the equity. Maybe you pay it off before you buy the next one and you sell that one. You got all the cash from the proceeds minus the fees and you roll that into the next one. >> That'd be pretty cool.

>> Yep. Yep. That was that was definitely an idea. I didn't know if we should go more towards that route or putting it in savings and having it >> I'd pay the house down. I'm with George.

That's what I That's what I did personally. And so that's, you know, I do as I as I say. That's how I like it.

>> Aaron's in Davenport, Iowa. Hi Aaron.

What's up?

>> Hey. Um me and my family of six are looking to move to the border of South Sudan and Uganda as missionaries um in a few months. And we're trying to decide whether we sell the house or rent it.

>> How long will you be there?

>> Indefinitely. >> Sell it.

Okay.

>> Yeah. And then >> Yeah. And I I would put the money in I'd put the money in a mutual fund. What should we do with the money? >> I'd put it in some good mutual funds and just let it grow. >> And um I assume you've raised support for your missionary endeavor, right?

>> We're we're almost finished raising support. >> Okay. So the you won't need this money to eat.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. So I'm just I I would sell it. I don't want to be managing a rental property from Uganda. No, thank you.

That's a bad idea. >> We did have a a friend who was going to like manage it for >> That's really scary.

>> Okay. >> That's how you get the Harley oil changed in your living room.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> No, no. I I something where you don't

have to think about it because you're um you're entering with four kids, you're entering a completely different culture and um you you know you're going to be on the cutting edge doing missionary work and you need to be completely focused on that, not worried about the air conditioner that broke back home uh in Davenport, Iowa,

>> you know, let's just mutual funds don't you don't they don't have any maintenance.

Okay. >> And so I I'm trying to simplify your life so you can focus on ministry in other words.

>> Okay. Well, thank you. I I appreciate that. >> Yeah, that's what I would do in your situation. If I were in your situation, that's exactly what I'd do. Sell it, pop the money in mutual funds, and um then when you I if there is a point that this

um missionary uh is endeavor is over and

you come home, you got much more money than you started with cuz it's all sitting there in that investment building up. You take that big old chunk of money and you buy you a house wherever you're going to land when you come home. >> Think about that. If that money sat there for about seven years, it could double.

>> It will double. Yeah. >> So, that's a pretty good deal versus >> Well, unless it sat there 14 years, it would double twice. >> I like that plan.

>> Yeah. And so, I don't know how long they're going to be there, but um yeah, you said indefinitely. So, >> forever is a long time. >> Yep.

Going with that. >> But to that end, Dave, a lot of people go, "Well, I'm moving. Should I keep it as a rental?" >> No, that's what we're saying. >> A lot of people experience that, especially long distance.

Real estate can be a good investment when properly structured and properly managed, but it is a much higher hassle factor than mutual funds. And so, um,

no, I I >> You want to be an intentional real estate investor, not by default.

>> Exactly. Exactly. I want to say, okay, I've got a I got this pile of money. I'm getting ready to go on the mission field. Would I go buy a rental house or would I put the money in a mutual fund?

I'd go put the money in mutual fund, but and I love real estate, but but not in that situation. I don't

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey. Sarah is in Phoenix. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

>> I am blessed. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, I'm not sure if I have a husband problem, my kid problem, or a selfish problem. Um, I am the bread winner in my

family. I have 19-year-old twins who are

going to a local community college on a

presidential scholarship. I feel like I have failed them because I was never able to save for their college. My

daughter wants to become a doctor. Um,

and she's saving every dime she's making

um for her dream. Um, and my son's

undecided at this point. Uh, so they both live at home and I pay all their living expenses. Of course, they pay when they go out or or whatever outside of that. Um, my problem is, well, besides I feel like I failed them, my husband, um, and I haven't been on the same page for many years. Um, you know, I I know what it takes to earn a dollar.

Um, and have worked two full-time jobs in recent years to get out of debt.

>> Did you say two full-time jobs?

>> Yes. >> Wow. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We were about $100,000 in debt. um

when I got laid off in 2011 due to my job getting outsourced. I'm in software development and that's when um a lot of jobs were getting outsourced uh including um mine. So um yeah, we piled

up that was daycare >> and you worked two jobs and got rid of the debt and so what's your question about him? I don't understand. Well, so

when I was pregnant with my kids, he hurt his back and >> three >> 19 years ago. Yes. Okay. And actually for the first probably seven years, he

literally was in severe pain and has had

multiple surgeries on his back. Um he's

been addicted to Oxy and all the other pain drugs. Um his last surgery was 201

17 maybe. Um in which was a game

changer. Uh he is now opiate free. Uh he

does smoke weed. Um can I say that?

Sorry. Um to manage the pain, but that's all he really does uh to manage the pain. Um and he just he he gets his

social security and he's happy with that. Um, and >> how old is he?

>> 65 right now.

>> 65.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And he's not worked he's not worked in 19 years.

>> Right.

>> Wow.

>> Right. >> But for the But since 2017, it was simply just because he didn't want to.

>> Right.

>> And so, >> well, I'm not denying he doesn't have back pain now. He does. And

>> yeah, welcome to being 65, but

>> um >> I have back pain, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, he's obviously been through a lot and and he's clear, but he's clear of the drugs and he's clear of that. So,

why do you think he has no ambition?

>> Because he gets his social security and a small check from his prior employer.

You know what THC does to the ambition centers to the brain, don't you?

>> Now what? >> It shuts them down.

>> There's no such thing as an ambitious weed smoker.

>> They're all mellow and and perpetually hungry.

>> Yep.

>> Gaining weight, too, huh?

>> No, he's he's been pretty um much the

same over the years. Yeah. >> Good. Okay. Yeah, >> that's good because that doesn't help the back obviously, but yeah, that generally goes with the munchies.

>> So, >> yeah. >> So, are you you're clearly building resentment for the last 19 years now because you've been carrying the load, >> you know, mentally, physically to take on the work. What is the actual problem at hand we're trying to solve right now? Because it sounds like there's multiple things.

You feel bad as a mother for not cash flowing your kid's dreams. You're angry at him. He doesn't have the ambition. Are you still trying to accomplish a financial goal that you're working so hard for or is this all you know?

>> Yeah, I want to retire one day.

you know, he just bought a brand new truck um >> with cash. >> He feels well 2/3 of a cash. We have a um

>> and you went along with that. So, you're going you get what you tolerate since 2017. You've tolerated this. And he didn't buy a truck without your knowledge. You went along with it.

>> Did you cosign for the truck?

>> Yes.

>> Yeah. >> So, you you've got to you got to decide, you know, you can't gripe about this stuff when you freaking participate in it.

>> Okay. So, 2017, he's got his back's

okay, the pain is down, he's able to go to work, and you don't push the issue eight years ago.

So, and you know he wants to he just bought a new truck. No, he didn't. We just bought a new truck. You went with him. You signed the papers. You can't

blame that on him. You did it. So, yeah,

you guys need to sit down with a good marriage counselor um because you're quickly losing respect with the guy you're going to spend your twilight years with.

And so, um, yeah, he he

the you guys need to get aligned on where you're going with your dreams, and you're not. You do have what you have is a marriage problem. That's what you have. It's not a husband problem. It's a marriage problem. Uh, but you get what you tolerate. And so, um, the difference

is at our house, was I doing that, Sharon would have confronted that about

35 seconds after she felt like I should have gotten a job.

She, you know, her idea of hard work.

She grew up on the farm and so she would have been going, "What are what are you, what's your butt doing on the couch while I'm working this don't play." And

I mean, we we speak hillbilly at our place. It's pretty direct. So, you know, that's not, you know, so that that's what it is. You you've been tolerating this for so long that it's become normalized.

And, bless his heart, he probably thinks it's all okay. It ain't okay, by the way. I agree with you, but you've you your part that you played in it is by allowing it. So, I think the two of you need to sit down with the marriage counselor immediately.

and that's not a way to spend your old age. So, I Yeah, that that's what's

going on. >> Yeah. And it sounds like he might have lost some purpose. He might be depressed and so he got to find his mojo.

That'll do it. >> That'll suck out all the ambition.

>> That'll do it. That was a sound of ambition leaving the room. I heard it.

Yeah. So, sorry boys and girls. I know that offends some of you, but oh well, it's this is actual data. It's not just Dave's moralistic opinion. And um you

know, yes, I'm old and yes, pot's been around longer than you. So, that's how this works. So, um yeah,

it's just more normalized these days.

When I was a kid, it was like a dangerous drug and we were all going to hell. But now it's like a normal thing.

So, um, you know, >> but it has real effects. >> It does. >> One of those consequences is you're not going to be like, I'm going to go run a marathon now. Let's go.

>> Yeah. I'm going to tackle the world and

open a business and I'm going to go be somebody.

said no weed head ever.

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Jess is in Charlotte. Hi, Jess. How are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes, sir. So, I'm I'm kind of in a mess, but I feel like I'm still young and learning. So, um I have about, you know,

3,000 in credit card debt and um I' I've

sold my car um and tried to consolidate

some other debt and I took out a personal loan. Um but that is at a very high interest rate and it's about 8,000.

And then I have at 72 in student loans

and I'm >> 72,000.

>> 72,000. Yes, sir. In student loans.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. And I'm I'm pretty much my current

job is is current causing a lot of health issues. And I I'm not supposed to have like a second job technically, but I have a small cleaning business that, you know, I do make good money, but I can't do it full-time out of fear of, you know, leaving my full time and and not >> Why is your full-time causing health issues?

>> It's just a lot of high demand and and a

lot of, you know, trying to get people in trouble behind their backs and things like that. And >> that doesn't cause health issues.

>> It's stressing me a little bit. Um I even ended up in like the emergency room. So it it >> you ended up in the emergency room because of anxiety.

>> Um more like heart like issues there

thinking it was they were thinking cardia cardiac but not is stress

related. >> More like a panic attack.

>> Yeah. Could be. Could be. Um but you know I'm only 33 so >> um I shouldn't be going.

>> What do you make at the stress job?

>> About 70,000. Mhm.

>> What do you do?

>> Um I I work in like human resources.

>> In what? >> In human resources. >> Human resources.

>> Yeah.

>> So you're the office all the stress comes and sits in.

>> Yeah.

Guess you can say that. >> Yeah. How big a company?

>> Um it's it's it's pretty big. Way over

500 employees. way over a thousand actually. So, it's pretty big. >> Is leadership not doing anything about the toxic environment?

>> Uh, not as much as they should. Um,

changes have been made, but it's it's it's difficult and it's going to take some time to get control of it to be honest in my opinion.

>> Nah, just start firing them.

>> Are you in a position to do that?

>> I'm not. I'm not. It takes it's

>> I can get control of it in about an hour and a half.

>> I bet. I bet. But it's it's so much red tape. Um >> it's only 500 people. That's not red tape. I got 1100 working here.

>> Yeah. Well, it's over 500. It's it's a it's a huge it's massive. Um >> Well, is it over 10,000 or over 500?

>> It was It's way I would say it's over 2,000 people.

>> Okay. That's a little different than 500. >> Yeah. >> I'm so confused. Okay.

>> Um Okay. So, you're in a job that sucks and you can't do anything about it, but it pays good. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you need a new job, huh?

>> Yeah. And I've been trying. I'm trying really hard. I I am. I'm applying all the time, but I mean, I guess as of right now, I'm just I think the debt is is a lot as well. It's just But I don't

know. I can't just quit because that'll make it worse. >> No, you can't quit. that you're broke.

>> Um, >> yeah, >> but you do need a new job that pays the same amount and doesn't have all the trash in it.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> If you didn't call us, what was going to be your next move?

>> Honestly, to pull my retirement from retirement and pay off what I can and then try to scale my cleaning business a lot. >> Glad you called us first. >> Yeah, that's borrowing money at you're going to be hit with your tax rate plus 10%. So, you're going to be hit with about a 30 or 40% hit. And that's like

saying, "Dave and George, I want to borrow money at 40% interest to open my cleaning business." Nope. Bad idea.

>> Yeah. >> So, why do they not allow you to work on the side?

>> Um, it's just in the in the clause. I think this should be I think what they're saying this should be your primary um focus and you can't have anything outside of it. Um, like a part-time job.

>> And then sometimes we have to work overtime. So 8 to 5 could easily go from

8 to 6 or seven.

>> Mhm. Okay.

Well, um I don't think you've got a methodology to jump straight to the cleaning business because I don't think you can grow your cleaning business big enough that you're comfortable drop walking away from a $70,000 income.

>> Yeah. >> So you've got to walk into another job that does not have the contractual obligation to have no side hustle.

And then you then you take your side hustle and you grow it until it gets big enough that you've got some confidence.

Right now it's a dream. It's not really proven. >> Yeah. >> Because it's a small amount of money. It's nowhere near $70,000.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. So, you need a new job first that

um pays you what you make now or more that's not got the horrible environment and then and does and does allow outside work and then you begin to work on your other stuff. meantime, you do have 70,000 plus a little bit coming in from your side hustle, your illegal side hustle. And um that means you can begin to attack this $3,000 credit card.

>> Okay. >> Which means no more switching around the debt, consolidating the debt. We're just going to attack the debt. We're going to move through it. >> Yeah. You got to bust right straight into it. You do make 70 grand. I mean, hello, girl. >> So, you're bringing home four or five grand a month. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Uh on Melissa, just about >> How big how big was your tax refund last year? Um, not much honestly.

>> Good. Good. >> And you're not investing right now at all? >> I am into my retirement.

>> Yeah, I would stop your retirement temporarily and let's attack this debt head on.

>> Okay. And I Well, see, I'm forced to through my job. We can't not do it because they it it matches it. So, we have to take out a certain amount.

>> No, you don't.

>> Not unless you're in a governmental Not unless you're in a governmental position or working for the railroad.

Okay. >> And you're not neither one.

>> You should know that you're in HR.

>> I I I know >> there's no such thing as mandatory retirement in a privately in a private company. >> Okay. Okay. I'll definitely look at that. And I guess my my thing is I think my biggest one is the consolidation debt

is right now it's like at 8,000, but the interest rate is crazy. >> The biggest one is you need to cut up a stupid credit card and get it cleared and then you work on the 8,000. $11,000 cleans up a lot.

Okay. >> And 11,000 out of 70 plus cleaning toilets, >> you can get there pretty quick.

Interesting. If you stay out of restaurants and you don't go on vacation.

>> And um I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Proximity Principle, which will help you actually get those applications through because just sending an application randomly is of no value when you're looking for a job.

That's come up several times in the last couple weeks with me here on the air, George. And it seems to be a thing. Like we had one guy said, "I sent out 160 thou 160 applications and no one called back." That's because all you did is fill out applications.

We filled under 200 positions at Ramsey

last year and we had 15,000 applications.

Do you think we looked at all of those?

No, we did not. So, how did it get out

of the pile? some way or another, someone differentiated themselves other than just blindly filling out stuff digitally just to throw it against the wall, see if something sticks. And one way is you know somebody that works there and you go, "Hey, at least give my buddy a look here. He's he or she's good." Right? And uh that that's called the proximity principle and I'll send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book. But just sending out applications is a complete waste of calories. Don't bother.

No one no one's going to call you and go, you know, out of 22,000 people, you're the one. No, that that doesn't happen because you're not the one.

>> Well, all the resumes look the same now because everybody's just using AI to write the resume and then it filters out the AI resumes. And so, we're back at square one. >> Yeah, that's you got to know someone. >> One of the things we do, AI is used at

Ramsey to filter out AI. How fun is that? >> It's come full circle. The robots are fighting the robots. >> Yes. Someone needs to take that.

beautiful thing. >> Yeah, it's good. So, yeah, that's what you've got to do. And meantime, I think I'd be having some frank discussions with leadership if there's so much toxicity and stress sitting in an HR

department that um that you know they

that their culture sucks that bad inside the organization. I'd be having some conversations with leadership about how what we can do what we can do to clean this up. Like who needs to be fired?

>> Yeah. It should not feel like a reality show over in HR.

>> Yeah. And I can fix that. Let them let

them take their crap somewhere else.

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Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey,

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hey.

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If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar

trainings. These are trainings that are happening every week this month and they're always hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. George, when's the next one you're doing? >> I got one tomorrow.

>> So, if you're watching this on August 19th, join us on the 20th for the webinar. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and in the process you're going to find thousands and thousands of dollars of margin. Use every dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth. And you can ask us any question during the live Q&A which is rather entertaining and fun.

By the way, did we mention it's free?

Lisa's in Vegas. Hi Lisa, what's up?

>> Hi. Uh, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, so we are a one-inccome family

and um, my husband and I, we, he's a

stay-at-home parent for now while our kids are young. That's a choice that was really important to us. We have a rental property that brings us about $500 a month. And, uh, we decided last year to,

well, a couple years ago to start a company. Uh, the company did okay, but

did not work out all the way. and between some investments that didn't work out and that company uh right now we are $75,000 um in debt with a heliloc.

>> You lost $75,000 on this startup.

>> Yes, it was. Yes. We had several things that didn't work out and we also were not wise with our money.

>> Wow. That's that's an ouchie.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And so, um, and then our car died in November, and because we had just helog, um, we couldn't use our regular credit union for a low rate interest, uh, loan, and all of our savings had been used up in that. So, now we also have a $285,

uh, payment, monthly payment on a car that's worth about 10,000.

>> What do you owe on the car?

>> Um, just about 11. So, no. So, it's the

about 10,000. So, what can how much can you get out of the rental property?

>> So, the rental property um we uh the

equity that we could get out of it would be 186 grand.

>> Good. Sell it and pay off all your debt.

>> And that's kind of what we wanted to know. We really want to get >> Yeah. When you lost the business, you lost the rental property.

>> Okay. Got it.

>> That's what happened. You just didn't admit it because you borrowed it.

>> Uhhuh.

So yeah, now you got a high interest car loan. You got to quit borrowing money, girl.

>> Yeah, we're trying. That's >> No, you're not. You just turned around, bought a car. >> You're not trying hard. >> You got to stop borrowing money. It's killing you.

>> No, we just started your program over the last month and we've done everything that you've said. So, we're Okay. We're we're heading that way. So, thank you.

>> Good. I hope. Please. Please. I don't I mean, I want you to win. I want you to What do you make?

I make about 80 grand.

>> Okay, good. And with no uh with no car

payments and no a heliloc payment, can you guys make it?

>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. We're completely fine, but prior than that, we're almost debtree other than our uh mortgage.

>> How much is owed on the mortgage?

>> Um so our personal mortgage, um we owe

228. >> Cool. Okay. Well, I'm going to fully fund it. I'm going to I'm going to pay off all my debt out of the 180. that's going to use up a 100 of this or it's going to use up 90 of this >> and um >> uh then I'm going to build an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses >> and um and that's probably 25 grand here

something like that. >> Yeah, we're thinking about 30. Um >> and then I'm going to then I'm going to chunk put a big chunk on the house and let's start start talking about getting this house paid off. you'll knock that mortgage down to like one I mean down to yeah 150 >> and start knocking that out.

>> One of the questions I had also is one of our main goals to getting out of debt is we want to be able to save money for our kids college and so um our oldest is

about to turn 10.

>> Um so we have about eight years but >> if you want to take if you want to take five grand each and get the college fund started with your Smart Ver Pro, that'd be fine. >> Okay. And then then let's chunk the rest of it on the house and and make sure we're doing our 15% of our household income now into retirement. That's baby step four.

Kids college is five. Six is pay off the house. And so that's where it's going to put you because you're going to be out of debt and have the emergency fund with the sale of the rental. The tr the good news is you had something that bailed you out.

So, you really have to draw a line in the sand and say, "Okay, that 2025 year,

that was the year we promised we're never borrowing money again for anything freaking ever." No matter what.

>> It's a big shift.

>> If you commit to that, you're going to be just fine no matter what comes your way. >> Well, stuff comes your way, it's going to be hard, but it's not as hard as going into debt and not having a rental property to sell to get out. So, you'll be in a pinch next. >> No payments with an emergency fund, you'll be in a different position. >> Yeah. You'll be in a sweet land. That's a awesome thing. So, absolutely. Cody is

with us in Seattle, Washington. Hi, Cody. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Excellent. I have a fun marital debate for you guys to try and sell for me and my wife. >> Okay.

>> Um, we are debating on whether we should

um pause uh 401k investing to pay off

the house. How much is owed on the house?

>> Uh 400. >> What percentage of your income are you putting into 401k?

>> Uh 15%. >> So you're doing what we teach.

Okay. And >> but there is a there's a slight catch to that though. I don't know if this matters or not, but our employers uh they don't do matching. They just do uh profit sharing at 15%. That's why I was

on the side of let's just do it and pay the house off and be free of this. Um,

>> and what's your household >> income? Percent >> is$ 250.

>> Okay. So, it's only $45,000 a year.

>> Yeah. >> $45,000 a year doesn't solve a $400,000 problem.

I mean, if you stop your 401k, you benefit 45K.

You owe 400.

>> That's a 10year plan.

Well, we're on um we're currently on track to pay it off and we're we're throwing we just started throwing after we paid all our debts and everything off. >> Um >> yeah. How much are you throwing at the house now? How much you throwing at the house? >> 100K. >> 100K a year. >> 100K a year. >> Okay. So, you'll be done in four years without this. And if you do this, you'll

be done in two years.

>> Yes. >> That's the only difference.

>> No, not quite. Yeah, it's about it's about an 18-month difference. Actually, it's not a full two years. Okay. And uh how much is in the 401ks now?

>> Uh 700.

>> Okay. And how old are you guys?

>> Uh I am 38 and the wife is 35.

>> Okay. All right. You've done a great job, by the way. Congratulations.

There's not a wrong answer to this.

>> There's no answer in this that puts your face in the stupid column. I mean, this is both of these are smart things. Both ways you're going to end up ahead. >> You'll either be a multi-millionaire or a multi-millionaire. So, it's just that's your call. It's your call.

>> Yeah. So, um what we're arguing about is

not philosophically stopping a 401k.

What we're arguing about is 18 months faster or 20 months or 100 or 24 months

faster. That's all we're arguing. It's two years faster or not.

>> Where are you putting the 45K in profit sharing? cuz you can't I mean you'll max out a retirement plan pretty quick.

>> No, it's 45K. He's putting in 15% and then they're throwing 15% in on profit sharing on top of it. That's why the thing's grown so fast. Did I understand that right? >> Yes, that's correct, Dave. >> Yeah. And you get the 15% from the company whether you put in anything or not, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And you've already got 700 in there. So, >> Yes, sir. Uh,

it's a technical argument and and truthfully the the core answer is it doesn't matter. You're going to be a millionaire, multimillionaire or you're going to be a multimillionaire. Like George said, that's the core answer. So, because you've done such a good job on everything else and so the only argument is 18 months or 24 months, which one do we want to do? Um, and I I

my tendency is just to stick with the baby steps because they worked so well.

And I would just take a little bit longer and pay off the house and not worry about it. Um, >> and at your age, that level of missing out on investing 20 years from now.

>> That's a lot. >> That's a lot of money. >> Yeah. >> You're leaving on the table by not investing. >> And make sure all that's Roth. Um, so that it's growing tax-free from this point forward. Yeah, I'm probably going to just stay right where you are with the 15% and take four years pay off the house instead of taking two. Um, but

it's truthfully I'm not going to be mad at you either way.

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Our

scripture of the day, Galatians 6:9. Let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap if we do not give up. Max Dri said, "We cannot become

what we want by remaining what we are."

Mara is with us in St. Paul, Minnesota.

Hi, Mara. How are you?

>> Good. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

Um, so my husband and I are 33 years old and we are on baby steps four, five, and six. Good. Um, through my husband's um,

job, he has some um, RSUs as part of his

compensation.

And so we are looking at uh, using a large portion of those to start doing some non-retirement investing. Um, and I

just wanted to get your thoughts on um,

a wealth manager versus a financial advisor. Um, we've only met with a wealth manager so far. Um, and I had a little bit of pause just um, in how they

uh, kind of actively manage your money for you.

>> Okay. Explain what they were doing.

Um well this was just a informal uh

first call with them. Um but from what I

gathered um they would have access to our accounts and they would actively be choosing um what type of investments.

>> No thank you. >> I think that's that's what I thought knowing that I'm a longtime listener of yours.

>> No thank you. >> Um >> yeah I >> it's your job not theirs. They don't they don't get to mess with my money without my permission.

>> Okay. I did meet with one of your smart investor pros about five years ago or we both did. Um he was a financial planner

>> and it was kind of just a one-time touch point where he um gave us some recommendations on what to do with our 401ks at that time.

>> Um >> but um he really didn't try to pursue any type of followup. Um, so we're

looking to have more of a relationship, which I have >> a smart investor pro should be an ongoing relationship that they teach you

about investing. They never do a transaction without you first having approved it. Um, and you are in charge

of your money, but they're there to advise you, to help you, and to teach you. Um, and so my Smart Investor Pro

has been a personal friend for 25 years and he'll just call up and go, "Hey Dave, did you know that such and such is happening with the tax changes?" And I went, "Hm, that's interesting." He goes, "You know, you could move that over there." I went, "Oh, that's a good idea.

Okay, thanks for calling me." Yeah, let's do that. And that's how the conversation sounds, >> but that's after me functioning with him for 25 years. But in no case am I giving them the keys to the car and telling them to drive wherever they want to go.

>> Yeah. Okay. and trying to just sort out.

I think again we met with a financial planner. I think we're looking for more of a financial advisor this time where he's like you said advising us how to um

do things with money and teaching us.

>> Yes. >> Um but not not >> a lot of it might be semantics. >> I think your smart vtor pro is really what you're looking for I think in this situation. And you just again you're doing some you're doing some nonretirement investing in some good mutual funds.

You're going to pick the mutual funds. You're going to pick the strategy that you're going to use. You're going to want low turnover mutual funds because you're not going to be taxed as you go because low turnover means they don't sell the stocks inside of it. Doesn't activate the taxes.

And when you do take the money out, if you left it in there at least a year, it's going to be taxed at capital gains rate rather than ordinary income rate. So that's low a low turnover ratio m set of mutual funds is a great way to position this particular portfolio. But you need to go sit with someone and learn all of that and then agree to that and then they say, "Okay, here's some examples of some funds that do that. Yeah, let's go with that one and I don't like that one and I like the track record on this one and tell me what I'm missing and they can talk to you." But in no case are they driving the car?

>> Yeah. What that leads to is you call us three years from now and says, "My financial adviser did all this crazy stuff with my money and I had no idea." We're going, "Why weren't you involved?" >> Yeah. So that's what th this is the definition how a smart vister pro works and that's why we have them and that's why we vetted them to do that. And so you know I would just jump online and interview two or three of them in your area and find the one that matches your all's style and your personality the best and that you have the most comfort with.

>> Yeah. Explain exactly what you're looking for. >> But again, you are making 100% of the decisions with your money. When you don't do that, you're about to get screwed because you got someone that doesn't have as much money as you making decisions for your money.

No, we're not doing that. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. Please. No. Please. No.

So, good question. That's interesting.

All right. Jake is with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Jake. How are you?

>> Good. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Um, so I'm a 25-year-old PhD student in aerospace engineering at the University of Southern California. Uh, and my question is, or I guess some quick background is I've been following your advice for about six or seven years now.

Um, I finished my undergrad degree in aerospace engineering debtree four years ago. And then I got my master's degree in aerospace engineering at USC two years ago debtree as well. >> Wow. when a lot of my friends who didn't get a scholarship finish in, you know, $100,000 $150,000 of debt and they'll be

spending, you know, a long time paying that back. Uh, but my question is, so I've been in the PhD program for four years, so I got my master's degree two years into that. Um, and I got the master's degree for free because the PhD pays for your master's degree tuition.

Um, so I kind of followed your principles and made sure that I didn't go into debt for that. Good for you. But my question is, um, sorry,

>> I said good for you. Well done.

Yeah, thank you. So, my question is um yeah, so I've been in the PhD program for four years. Um I kind of feel and

there's not really an end in sight as far as when I might finish. It might be a year, two years from now. Um and I'm not necessarily going to be making any more money. And it's a very multifaceted decision, but um I'm just kind of curious, you know, from a financial perspective whether I should drop out or not cuz on one hand I do have a full ad scholarship and it can get me the rest of the way through.

Um but I'm not necessarily going to be making any more money and I'm kind of missing out on the opportunity cost of, you know, they pay us about 90,000 free tuition, but that doesn't really, you know, do much past a certain, you know, taking more classes doesn't really help past a certain point, but they do pay us about $45,000 for living expenses um as part of the scholarship. Um, but if I was in industry, I could have been making, you know, 100,000 or 110,000 um, the last couple years.

>> Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, so for me, kind of the two careers uh, long term that I'm kind of bouncing between are um, the PhD program in the

first place was so I could get the free masters, then I could kind of decide from there what I want to do. Um, so I didn't want to go 100k in debt. I want to go to USC. And then once I got here, I kind of figured out um if you want to become an astronaut, which obviously is a very far-fetched goal, um you kind of need a PhD to do that as a civilian, as a nonjet pilot.

Um so that's kind of the reason I kind of continued. Um and USC obviously is a good school socially and everything to do that, but which but which you probably don't want to hear.

of me which wants to go be an entrepreneur. You don't really need a PhD for that. Um, and financially it just I'm just kind of, you know, throwing away opportunity costs. You know, I could be making a lot more salary and I could be, you know, starting side hustles and stuff like that. Um, which I can't really do right now. >> You got to do dissertation to close it out. And what is the uh what what's the

shortest possible timeline? Because you said the timeline's a little bit vague.

Why?

>> Um, it's different for every PhD and that's kind of the way um, you know, some PhDs are very clear-cut and some are not super clearcut. Um,

I would say it's the shortest is probably about a year. Um, but you know,

two years might be, you know, on the table as well. >> Why would it take longer than a year?

>> Um, I would say it just depends on the progress of the research. I made a lot of progress the last year or so, so I'm probably >> So, you're down to your dissertation.

That's it.

>> Yeah, most likely. >> Yeah. >> Have you just lost steam on it? You're just not excited about it anymore? Okay.

>> Yeah. Not as excited and I'm also again there's just kind of the um >> you're itching for some real world experience. >> I I'm not sure. I I have a couple friends that have funny stories about their dissertation periods. Um and uh

but the impression I got from them and their stories was that the dissertation is a little bit like writing a book. Uh

the first time I wrote a book, I learned this. Well, actually, it's about the third time I wrote a book before I finally got this advice from a real publisher that knew what they were doing. He said, "You're never going to get finished. You finally just stop and print it." >> Yeah. >> So, you're never going to get finished.

You need to finish this. You need to put it on a timeline. And if you can be done in a year, I would stick it out and knock it out. >> You're 25. I'm running out of time.

>> I'm going to knock this out in a year. I'm going to finish this. I'm going to limit the amount of research. I'm not going to go down all the rabbit holes.

I'm not going to win an award on the dissertation anyway. I just want the PhD. I'm going to finish this.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. >> Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for the Ramsay Show Live.

Yep, you heard me right. We are taking this show to you. This is going to be everything you love about the Ramsay Show, except you get to be a part of it.

Part of what, George? >> The the Ramsay Show live. Okay. That's what I'm telling them about right now. >> Ramsey Show live in here. >> Nope. We're We're doing it on the road.

You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz September 30th. Are you free? >> The Windy City. I like it that time of year. You know what else I like, George?

I like the deep dish. Oh, >> okay. Maybe we'll have some deep dish.

You mind if I finish the promo? Is that okay with you? >> Okay. Okay. Appreciate that.

>> Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there. George, are you in here talking about TRS Live?

>> I am, Jade. I'm trying to talk about it.

>> Nice. So, that means it's actually happening, right? >> It It's happening. If I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition. >> Listen, just tell me when and where.

>> You don't know? Okay. We're going to Orlando. You're going to join Dr. John Deloney and I October 2nd.

>> Yes. Okay, great. I'm going to go pack now. Thanks. >> Please, please do that. Go pack.

>> Uh, hey, George. Uh, speaking of packing, is this like sweater weather or is it not that cold here in Chicago? Wh what is happening? Can I Can I please just get to how they buy the tickets?

>> Jeez, I thought it was a good question.

>> Okay, this is not an arena tour. This is a one night only event in Chicago and Orlando. General admission is only 39 bucks. Plus, there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that. But here's the thing. There's only 300 seats available, so get your tickets now at ramiesolutions.com/events.

>> Hey, how come you get to go to both cities? >> I I just go where they tell me, man.

Hey, have have you been there the entire time? Maybe. >> Okay. And also, are you reading a children's book?

>> I'm expanding my mind, George. That's >> how we got those PhDs.

>> Yeah, it's probably where you got that jacket. >> Okay, see you on the road, John.

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## 24. Clarity With Money Brings Peace At Every Stage Of Life | January 23, 2026


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Normal is [music] broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Show Network in the Fair's Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. All

right, George, let's go straight to the call lines. We got Mark [music] who's in Eugene, Oregon. Hey, what's up, Mark?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. How are you all doing? >> We're doing excellent. How can we help today? >> Yeah. So, I don't have a lot of experience being married so far, only [music] about 3 years and dealing with the finances of that. But my question is, is it normal, say if one person makes more than the other that say a big expense comes up that the other person should go into debt to pay the other spouse back? Because >> zero parts of that make sense.

[clears throat] No parts of that sentence. Who told you that?

>> Exactly. That's what I kind of felt. I mean, regardless of how the conversation's going to go, I'm like, I'd feel relief either way. Like, we're square now, but for a couple years there, it's been pretty stressful on my part to pay her back cuz >> Okay, give me a real life example, something that's happened.

>> Yeah. So, she's had a much more stable job than me. I mean, she's about 11 years older than me, so much more

set in her job, makes better money. So, how old at the time? >> How old is she and how old are you?

>> Uh, she's currently in her 40s and I'm in my 30s. And when we met, I was in my 20s and she was in her 30s.

>> Yeah. And so, I was in the mindset of

like, well, >> I'm still building my career. I've made big career changes. So a lot of the jobs that I had throughout our relationship and at the beginning of the marriage I was only making 40 50k while she's making 130k plus.

>> Okay. >> So uh big household expenses come up you

know solar HVAC unit big expenses and

you know she can pay that right out of her savings. Like she had like 100 grand in savings and paid it in cash.

>> But then it was like okay now you owe me half.

>> Was like okay. >> I was like okay. So, you don't have combined money. I mean, you guys have fancy roommates >> who cuddle on the weekends.

>> Not. >> Yeah. And I've actually used that same term with her. Like, I feel like I'm a renter at times. Um, >> well, you guys are making no shared decisions. You have no shared financial goals, no shared accounts. Nothing about this screams we are married.

>> Now, have you have you asked her about that or because here's here's what I'm hearing. If you've been going along with this for all these years and haven't really said the words, uh, you know what? I I feel like we should be combined, then she's kind of just doing what she thought is normal, which is I

do my thing, you do your thing. We kind of split it 50/50. You're not holding up your end of the bargain. So, it just sounds like a conversation needs to be had about you wanting to be closer to

her and have more transparency and have less of a yours versus mine and more of

an hours take on the money. Have you ever done that?

>> Yeah, as of recent within the past couple months. cuz now that we're square and I'm actually making just as much money as her because my job I finally

landed pays really well and then I started my own business that also did equally as well. So I'm like, okay. But my fear is is like if I lose that job again or business doesn't do as well, I'm not making as much that >> Yeah. You making more doesn't solve the root problem here.

For example, my wife stays at home. It would be insane for me like, "Well, babe, since you make nothing, you owe me half." That would be ins I'd be sleeping on the couch if I'm lucky. >> And so regardless of the situation, who makes more when it's y'all's money?

What are we going to do with this money?

What are our goals? Hey, we need to do this home repair. We want to go on this vacation. We need to pay off our debt.

And so far, it's been, well, Mark, it's every man for himself. Good luck out there. And there's also, it sounds like there's some gender roles playing out where I don't know if it's both of you or her where there's this feeling of since you're the man, you have to be making as much of as her or more. I don't know if that's coming from both of you or just coming from you or just coming from her, but these are all things that need to be discussed out in the open very very candidly so that at

least you know where each other is coming from and then you're able to

>> um bring up, hey, I know that that's the

way you feel, but that's actually not my viewpoint on it. And let's seek to learn

about each other first instead of changing each other first. That's what I would do. That'd be my first order of business. Let's learn so that we understand where each other's coming from. Then we can start to kind of make changes as opposed to today I want to combine our finances that you're it's probably not going to happen.

>> Yeah. And I I guess another one with that is say the mortgage and daycare for the kids cuz um those times where I

wasn't making as much, it was still expected that I pay the exact half. But I was like, "Well, that's going to not allow me to say put as much into say 401k or savings." >> Oh, yeah. The whole system is broken. How you guys been doing this? >> Yeah. We're going to pull up the whole thing. So, you can almost like forget about that because we're starting over.

>> Has she been married before?

>> No. >> Okay. I'm wondering there. This is coming from somewhere where she's being very protective of what she's built and therefore doesn't want you involved.

>> Yeah. And I've brought that up where, you know, a very strong sense of independence, uh, and all that with with

her, I'm like, okay, I get it. Love that. But if it starts to get to a point where it's like, I don't need you. Like, I've got this on my own. But kind of hold it against you is where I'm like, okay, that's it's kind of disrespectful.

>> Well, you become one. You become one when you get married. And it's not to say that you forsake everything that you

are. You just stand next to somebody else and you both be fully who you are together. [laughter] >> Yeah. And the foundation of all this is trust and respect. And it sounds like you don't have either of those things from her.

>> Yeah. And that's what I've expressed to her over the years. And yeah, I've I've

stayed consistent with that. But at the same time, I'm like, >> sounds like you need a mediator, a counselor involved who can um help you

guys both hear each other and take what

you're hearing from each other and actually convert it into some actions that are going to get you on the same page.

>> Oh, yeah. We've done that. I understand where her insecurities come from, but as far as say improvements on that over time, it's it's one of those things where it's like I I don't know if you're getting there >> to know that I'm on your team. I'm not a leech. >> What was the home?

>> Um, well, mostly just not getting into a cycle like falling into our our cycle with each other of >> say the attachment styles, anxious or avoidant attachment styles and understanding where people are coming from. uh not jumping the gun and getting

it to your, you know, four horsemen, real goman. Um but

>> you're just saying you're just not seeing it.

>> Well, it's as long as there isn't any I

mean, we've never been in destitute.

We've never really been in major debt, nothing like that. So, a lot of it to me is like, we're doing fine, but I don't

know why your savings should continue to balloon while mine either stagnates or

depletes because I'm like, what happens later in life? >> Retirement, are you going to retire without me? >> For sure. That's the [laughter] plan.

>> Leave you in the dust, Mark. I mean, part of it is you can choose not to there's some of this you can choose maybe not to participate in, which is when she starts using the I versus me

and versus you language. You can say, "Well, uh, I don't want to participate that. I see myself together with you." Um, [music] and and not participate in that and just say, "Here's what I'd like us to do.

Here's what I'm thinking would be great for us, uh, our money." and you can really start leading the charge in that as much as you can. Um, and when she starts to make those comparisons, just say, "Well, I did not plan to pay you back because I feel like it's our money and [music] I don't like this feeling of power struggle that it's creating." And really just hold your ground for a while. That's what I do.

[music]

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All right, [music] we've got Scott who's in Houston, Texas on the line. Hey, what's up, Scott?

>> Hey, Jaden. George, how you doing today?

Thank you so much for taking my call.

>> You bet. How can we help today?

>> Well, I I think I have a good situation, but I need some guidance as to how to do this. Um, I retired last February. Um, I

had to because of my profession. And, um, I followed Dave's plan now for close to 20 years. So, uh, I've done fairly

well. Um, basically my my nest egg is

just about $3.3 million. And I've been a

saver all my life. So, I'm trying to figure out how much I can spend and when

I can spend it.

>> All right. Okay. Well, how old are you?

>> I'm 65. >> 65. And what are you what are you doing

right now? I mean, how how are you drawing income right now?

>> I'm I'm basically drawing income out of my out of my 401k that I've had forever.

>> And um I' I've thought about going back

to work on a limited basis. I have a few small health issues that I'm working through that that are kind of keeping me from working at this point anyway just because of having to having obligations to take care of things like that. But uh but um it's just you know I'm I'm afraid to spend money because I've always saved it. >> Well Oh, I see. Okay. What are your current expenses if you added them all up for the month?

>> Yeah, I sure have. It's basically, you know, everything comes out about $8,000 a month. And is that what your is what's

your draw set on?

>> My draw is set on eight is just about 8,000. >> Okay. So, you're not you're not doing anything extra?

>> No. No. I'm I'm doing absolutely other than, you know, things like buying Christmas presents and, you know, birthdays and possibly going out every once in a while to get something to eat.

But no, I'm I've I've been a workaholic all my life. [laughter] >> Well, what do you want to do? If I said, "Scott, let just shoot me straight. Do

Do you want to go to Europe? Do you want to go buy a boat?" Like, what is it that you want to do?

>> Well, actually, believe it or not, I already have a boat.

>> Um, and and I don't really want to travel. I I don't know what I want to do because my whole life was pretty much working and um and just, you know,

existing. >> Wow. Do you have any other sources of income outside of the 401k? pension, social security, IRA, anything like that, real estate. >> Well, social sec social social security is in the mix, but I'm not drawing on it yet because I don't need to.

>> Yeah. >> And you know, um, and I'm not at my full retirement age. >> Okay. Yeah.

You could wait till 67 or even 70 if you want to really get the max. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. The math says you're fine.

You could easily withdraw 10 grand a month from that account and it's never going to deplete. >> Yeah. >> In your working life. I mean, in your lifetime.

Let's say you live to even 95, >> it the balance will still be there. And so I'm not worried about that unless you have some crazy, you know, your expenses are going to go up to 20 30 grand a month at some point in life, which it doesn't sound like that's the case. So you just need to factor in, you know, health care costs. There's it's kind of a smile.

What they've seen in the financial planning world is once you retire, there tends to be a slight upgrade in spending for a little bit because you're like, "Woohoo!" And then as you get older, it actually goes down for a foreseeable amount of time. And then in the final stage of your life, it ramps back up due to all the healthare costs. >> So, >> right. Right.

>> For me, this is way less a money question and way more a self-discovery question. And I think it's really fun for you to be able to do this at at this stage in your life.

getting to know what do you like, what do you not like, and I would just play a game. Honestly, I would play a game where every month I force myself to

budget for something new just to see, do I do I like it? >> Can you make it 10 grand and the extra two is just fun money for Scott? Would you be able to do that right now?

>> Well, I'm I'm I'm actually doing that right now. And the problem is is I'm I'm

saving I'm I'm saving my own money again. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. You're not actually spending it. That's why I say make yourself, you know, go get in your

friend group and say, "What are you guys doing?" And if they say, it's almost like make yourself say yes. If they say, "Oh, this weekend we're going um on a hike." You go, "All right, I'll try it." And then you come back and you go, "I'm crossing that one off the list. I don't want to do any more of that." And then if the next time they go, "We're we're going to Burning Man." You're like, "All right, I I'll try it." And then you end up, man, I really like festivals. Like whatever.

I just want you to try a bunch of things and just let this be your season of I'm just getting to know Scott.

I I am unattached from work the the way

I you know it's a very different stage for me and it it's just exploratory and

I think that's really really fun.

There's no wrong or right answer.

>> I think I'm just being too cheap and I'm having trouble cutting with that. Now, do you have anyone close to you in your life? >> I have two daughters. Yes.

>> Great. Would they encourage you to spend?

>> Uh, I I don't know whether or not they would because they've seen I mean, they're they're kind of Dave Ramsey's also.

>> They just know Dave Dad's a cheapkate and now he's trained us to be cheap skates.

>> Can I tell you though? >> Call me a cheapkate. >> Well, here's the other side of the equation. You have lived like no one else and now you're forgetting that it's time to live like no one else.

It's time to do the things that felt wasteful how to do. >> Yeah. Things that felt crazy and wasteful are now going to be a rhythm of your life. >> You get to delegate the things you don't want to do.

You get to upgrade the things that really it's time for an upgrade. You get to take the trip that felt frivolous. You get to fly first class even though you've always felt like that was a ripoff. You get to do all those things.

You've earned the right. >> Mhm.

and you're like, "Wow man, I really should have enjoyed life a little more." >> But but even that, Scott, just because I

think awareness of this is a really big point of it, you really have to remind yourself that you're kind of rewiring your brain in this moment because for years, you've literally created a pathway in your brain that said spending money, you've equated spending money with uh irresponsible behavior and a

responsible person saves their money. A responsible person puts their money away. You've told yourself that for 40 years and now it's like, okay, I need to

rewire my brain and do the work of actually doing those actions to tell myself if I spend this money, nothing bad's going to happen. And it's literally at that point, you're just following science to help you learn that

if I spend money, if I spend this money,

nothing bad's going to happen.

>> Nothing's going to implode. Nothing's going to fall off. I'm not going to destroy anything. And the more and more that you do that, the more you will free yourself up to realize, oh, this is this is good. And you won't have that part in your brain that's like, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. Right? So that I mean that's just at the like lowest

scientific level what you're doing.

>> If you think about like a workout you you have been doing leg day your whole life and now your arms are atrophied and so it's a different kind of workout.

You're working different muscles and it's going to take time. This is not a thing where next month you've just paused all investing and you're only spending. I think this is going to take a few months for you to get get in the rhythm of and it's going to go hey I'm okay. The balance is growing. Not saving is not hurting me and spending more than I used to is not hurting me. And so you're in a great spot. This is not advice for everyone. This is advice for a guy who has $3.3 million sitting there

at 65. If you had half a million dollars, it would be a very different story. I'd be going, "Dude, you need to get back to work and you need to keep saving." >> But you have done the hard work and so it's time to enjoy it. And uh a good book for this, the book of Ecclesiastes.

It's one of my favorites for to remind myself that everything is meaningless.

So, just enjoy the time you have on this earth. Drink and be merry, my friend.

That's funny. I I think uh you remember when we did the live like no one else cruise last year, I talked about this exact subject of rem remembering that if

you're you know walking the baby steps, you are you're wiring your brain for a while to say the habits that I was doing

which were usually spending got me in a bad place. Like you've told yourself that a lot. So what I must do is not spend to get myself in the good place.

And you we tell ourselves that for however long it takes us to get out of the baby steps. And then we have to then do the work about rewiring our brain and

say, you know what, I've become a a financially respon responsible adult. I can now spend my money again. And by the way, being a financially responsible adult, if you're checking the things on the checklist, you're living on a budget, you're living a life that's out of debt, you carry the proper insuranceances, you value savings in the way of, you know, having your 3 to 6 months, you're paying off your house, [music] you're investing for your future in a 401k, and you prioritize generosity. If you're checking those green boxes, that means there's some

money that you can spend in >> time to party. You ran the marathon. You went past the finish line and you're still running. It's okay [music] to take a pause, have a drink, and enjoy this third phase of your life, Scott.

[music]

[music]

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Hey, Mandy. How can we help today?

>> Hi. Thank you guys for um taking my call. But I um I I just have a I I feel

like this maybe I'm making something out of nothing, but my husband is like super

private about his finances

and it wasn't a big deal when we weren't

married, >> but I guess I thought we were on the

same page when we got married, >> which was when how long ago? Um, well, we've been together for um about 20 years. We've been married like seven.

>> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. >> So, 13 years together, seven years married. >> Yes. We've been together a long time.

And um it it really didn't bother me

until we got married. And I guess I thought we'd be working together.

[snorts] And I've tried to like encourage working together. Um he was

when he turned 60 so we're an age gap couple. So when he turned 60 years old he was downsized from his company. So he [clears throat] he's been unemployed slashret retired

[gasps] since then. So that's been about 6 years. >> So okay. >> So he's about 66 now.

>> Yes. >> How old are you? >> I am 53.

>> Okay. Um, >> how has money been handled thus far in the past seven years? What does it look like for you guys to run your household?

>> So, that's the thing. Like, he's been entirely like, I'm going to handle my own. We have a joint checking account for our like household bills. He just refused to combine anything.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> any children?

>> None together. We've both been previously married. we have kids, you know, from those relationships, but they're grown and out of the house.

>> Okay. >> Um, so they don't really factor in. Um,

but like I like obviously he's retired, so I'm thinking like down the road like, you know, what happens to one of us?

What, you know, I want to think about our future together.

>> What have you said to him? Cuz here's let me tell you what I'm hearing from you and then you tell me. So what I'm wondering is you were together for 13 years. It was away which was very separate which makes sense. You weren't married. Then those habits kind of filtered into the marriage. When did you

say and how did you say I'd like for us

to now that we're married be one and then what did he say? So tell me about all that part. Well, that kind of that was kind of a conversation before we got married. Like, and I thought we were on

the same page before we got married. And after we got married, like things just weren't clicking that way. >> Why did you think you were on the same page? What made you think that?

>> Because we had those conversations >> and he said, "Yes, I agree." >> Yep. Yep. It was like, "Yep, I think that's a good idea. I agree with that." you know, and like but then it was like

to actually put them in practical motion like he was just >> what does that look like? >> And then did you dig into that?

>> I tried like he he absolutely like he

won't have a conversation. He avoids

having those hard conversations. I tried going like I I wanted to go to like let's go to therapy. He wouldn't go, you know, so we can talk about these things.

He refused. He won't go to therapy.

>> Get mad?

>> Um, no. He just won't like he can't hear

me or he can't like his he doesn't his

voice doesn't come out. Like it just it's a total withdraw. >> Just shuts down completely.

>> Um, >> yeah. There there's a lot behind this that he's not telling you. And maybe it's from the past. Maybe it's his own insecurities. Maybe he's trying to protect because he's been hurt. I don't know what it is, but all I can tell you is that he is basically opting out of

this marriage by shutting down constantly. >> So, we had like a a a lifealtering thing

in our family and that was kind of like it kind of made me think, hey, life is life is really short. It can change on a dime, right? >> So, I was like, okay, like I want to sit with a financial planner. Let's get our things in order. Let's like whatever. I thought maybe that would encourage, >> you know, because it was a big deal.

Yeah. >> And it affected all of us. And I thought, okay, this like this is going to encourage us to like get things in order. And he just he absolutely said

no. Like he's got stuff on the computer.

Everything is password protected.

>> Oh boy. And I just >> Do you think there's something more nefarious happening?

>> I I like he I don't think so. I just I

just feel like either one of two things.

either he's got more money than um I

think he does and he doesn't trust me or he's super poor and doesn't want [laughter] to tell me. >> So, how are Mandy for for the sake of just me assessing like your security in this? How much money do you have? Like what do you earn? What do you have in your name? Tell me about you for a second. >> Um so I make about $70,000 a year. I my

house is paid off. My car is paid off. I have little to no debt. Like >> the house that you guys both live in is paid off, isn't it? Is it in your name?

>> It is. It is in my name. I like I own

the house before

we were together. >> And then your car is paid off.

>> So you don't have any debt?

>> Not really. No, nothing to speak of.

Like $3,000 in credit card debt.

>> Okay. What's in your retirement?

So, I have a retirement through my um my

work um which is currently like at $50,000 and I also have like a state pension. So, I'm a state employee.

>> Okay. >> So, um so I have that as well.

>> So, I I I just wanted to know how how

part of the like how how together you are and you you're on your way. Um, what

I would do if I were in your shoes is I would have some real adult talk, which

is in and basically setting a very clear

line of here's where I am and here's

what I'm going to need in order to go forward because the way that the marriage is running is not working for me. It's not valuing me. There's no trust in me. um

you've you've I'm not saying that you've been um angry or like combative in any

way, but I am saying that you've shut me out. And I can't be in a marriage that I'm shut out of. And our money is a huge part of our life. It touches everything.

And I'm feeling very, very put out by all of this. And I've made these attempts. I don't think I need to list them because you know about them and you have shut me out. And so now I am saying here's what I need in order to proceed.

We have made it about you and we I've let you do your thing and now I'm about to do my thing. That's basically the conversation I would have. And I would say here's what I need to go forward because today I'm not safe. You've shut me out.

And I don't know if that means that you have millions that you don't want me to be a part of or if it means that you owe millions and you don't want me to be a part of. I don't know. I don't know you. You're not letting me know this part of you.

And I've suggested counseling. And so this is you, Mandy, at this point. This is you about you deciding how strong you want to be on the matter. >> Is this going to be something that you can because the ball's now in your court.

And I think that's that's exactly right because like as many times as I've suggested counseling, I myself have gone to counseling. >> You're doing your part >> and I am I'm cleaning up my side of the street and I think that is what has helped me like see things through a much

clearer lens >> as how much I'm being boxed out.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz you're getting healthy and now it's causing you to see the unhealthiness. >> Yes. >> Yes. very much so. And I'm like I I kind

of feel like maybe I'm overreacting.

Like is this is this enough to like >> You're not Mandy. And if he makes you feel that way, that's what the kids call gaslighting.

>> You are not the crazy one. You are asking for something very reasonable. Hey, I signed up for life together with this person and you are boxing me out completely. I feel anxious. I feel disconnected. We need to be on the same page and on the same team or else this can't move forward.

>> I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, Mandy. It's not an easy thing. We can't change people. We can control what we can control and that's us right now. So focus on you and what you can do.

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>> All right, going back [music] to the phone lines, we've got Mia who's in Seattle, Washington. What's up, Mia?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Yeah, how can we help today?

>> Okay, so my husband and I are on baby step number two. we are 6,9

$619,000 in debt. Um most of that is a mortgage.

And so my question is really going to revolve around that. But just giving you a little background, um we've been in a new home for about a year and two months. Um our mortgage on that is 525.

We inherited a parent plus loan

last October in 25 for 65,000.

and we have a 401k loan um that we use

to get into this house and we owe 29 on that. We do own our cars and there's no other debt. So my question is we're both in our mid-50s. We're on baby step number two. We really just need a clear plan on moving forward.

How when what do you recommend for

trying to get to retirement? His 401k is currently frozen. It only has 60,000 in there. >> Okay. Okay. >> Um, so we're really wondering, should we sell and rent until we save up enough to reby smaller?

Um, we also don't want to live in this area when we retire. We have family in another state with grandb babies. So, I know that's a lot to unpack, but whatever advice you can give me, I'm all yours. >> Yeah, sure. So, tell us about your

income. Tell us about your working life.

What are you guys earning uh together, and what do you take home each month?

Okay. So, I'm a stay-at-home mom. Um, I've we've we've got five kids. I'm on the last two. I have been home for 22 years, so I don't make an income. He makes uh an annual of about 200,000.

>> Okay. >> Our take-home is about 10 a month.

>> 10 a month. You said >> 10,000. >> And how much of that is the mortgage?

Our mortgage just went up an additional

500 in January due to um we they call it

an assessment. So our mortgage payment currently uh with HOAs is running about 4700 a month. >> Oh wow. That's really high for your income. So there is I mean that alone would

cause me to say yeah you've got too much house and then you've got the debt on top of it and there's not um unless you

tell me there's something that's going to happen drastically with income.

You're you're up against it. That's probably why you're seeing almost no margin. Correct.

>> Okay. Yes. >> It's going to be hard either way. So let me lay out some options for you. One is you go to work full-time. and we drastically increase the income. We're able to clean up the parent plus loan and 401k loan fast, keep up with the mortgage and invest for retirement. Is that a viable path?

>> You tell me. >> My two my two children. Um we can talk about that. >> They're 10. They're twins.

>> Okay.

>> And is there an option? And you know, I know homeschooling is a real values thing. So it's not a thing where I go, "Well, just put them in public school and get to work." But there's a reality here where you guys can't retire and you

can't afford this house, which means there's no home to homeschool in. That's my fear.

>> And so homeschooling, all of these things, it's a luxury to be able to do that, to stay at home, to homeschool.

And right now, you guys can't afford the luxury. And so it's either that or you sell, you go rent somewhere. And I don't know, can you rent somewhere for $2,000 a month, $2,500 a month in your area?

We would have to go outside the main area, but it is doable. We would just have to downsize, which we're both willing to do. >> Okay. >> We're both very open to, you know, whatever we can do. Um, so we're willing to do that. Yes. We would just have to leave this area and it would be just a small commute. >> Okay. >> For my husband's employment and for some of our activities with homeschooling, but that would be fine. >> What's What's the equity in your house?

What would you take away?

We've lost We've only been in a year and a half. So, we've lost equities with >> fees and all that. So, >> you'd walk away maybe owing money.

>> If we Okay. So, if I was honestly going

to sell today, we could probably after fees walk away with maybe 60,000.

>> Oh, okay. That could almost knock out the parent plus loan. >> Yeah. That's not what I thought you were going to say. [laughter] >> I thought you were going to say we would make zero if we're lucky.

>> That's what I thought. Okay. So that's a huge that's a huge change in the conversation um in a short amount of time. So, >> okay, >> that's that makes me feel better about the idea of downsizing is the fact that you could actually make some progress very quickly by getting these parent plus loans out of the way and then that would just leave uh well, technically you do the 401k loan first, but you know what I'm saying?

It it it only leave the the 35,000 there for you, >> which means you could if you threw $3,000 a month, which your savings from the mortgage down to renting plus any extra margin, you could clear all this by the end of the year. So, think about that.

to save up some money in your emergency fund. That would create a stable foundation for you guys to then be able to invest his amazing income. That is the saving grace here is he makes really good money. >> The hard news is he might need to work longer than he wanted to in order to be able to retire and support the family.

>> Yeah. And that also gives you the ability if you decide that you can pick up some income and that you can work.

Um, it just frees you up a little bit more to be uh to to value that system

that you have in place a little bit more because if you keep this house, you can't. It's like, I have to work. >> It's a pressure cooker and we need to release some of this pressure right now.

And I hope one day you guys get back into a house and it's not stressful and you can easily afford it and you have no debt, you have plenty of savings, you're on track for retirement. That's the goal and that's why we tell people to move real slow when it comes to a house and do it when the timing is right.

>> Yeah. And so there's there's viable options here, but again, it's sacrifice all the way around. There's no shortcuts to living the life that you guys want.

You know, having the cake and eating it, too. >> That's right. And so I wish you >> got a shake. >> Yeah. >> Thanks for the call. A very good situation. >> You can make up for lost time on a retirement fast, making 200 grand with no debt. >> Good news. >> Absolutely. Yeah. All all is not lost.

All right, let's go to Michelle. She's in Norfolk, Virginia. What's up, Michelle?

>> Hi. >> Hey. What's up?

So, my question is um

I'm wondering if I should quit my job

because um I have one daughter in daycare and then we tried for another and surprise we had twins which was not in the budget. Yes. Um which was not in the

budget. Um, so and the question is, should I quit my job um to

stay home and take care of my children um because like I don't bring in enough to cover daycare fees or should I hold

out for about 3 to 6 months um and just

kind of take the loss while I'm aggressively trying to find another job um because I'm not trying to have like a lapse in my resume.

>> I mean, there's two questions here. One is do you like working and do you want

to work? Do you see what I'm saying?

Like is there a part of you that wants to work or do you prefer to stay home and this just gives you the out to do it?

>> So I like working. I I grew up very

financially insecure. So I get really nervous by not having a job or any

income coming in. >> Do you need the money?

um in your budget. >> We would be we'd make do without it. Like we don't need it, but it's >> What does your husband >> It would also be He makes um 6,500 a

month. >> You have debt?

>> Um no, we have about 65,000 in the bank saved up. >> Great.

>> Um well, our mortgage, >> but Okay. What's your mortgage payment every month? Um 2,800.

>> Okay. So, can you guys make it work off 6,500 take-home pay with no debt? It feels reasonable.

>> Um yeah, but daycare is going to cost like So, I make 3K and daycare is going to cost four grand. >> But I'm saying that he makes 6,500 a month. >> Oh. Oh, yes. >> So, even without you working, you have 6,500 a month to work with.

>> Yeah. It's just diapers and formula.

>> What if you worked part time? What if you split the difference and you did a part-time kind of half day with the kids

and then you did a part-time job and split the difference?

>> I mean, I'm open to that. I'm just I

>> you have to figure out what My advice to you would be to figure out what problem you solve cuz I I hear too. But diapers and and wipes and formula is not thousands of dollars a month. And so we also have to be realistic and look at the numbers. So, I would just make a budget tonight with your husband using every dollar, just his income. Go, here's what our future life would look like. And if the math checks out, you go, "Yeah, we can make this work." >> Then go for it. Stay home.

>> But if you also like the security, that's why I said you're solving for a couple of problems. Cuz if you like the security of working, you [music] can work part-time, and that's great, too.

Nothing. >> You got options here. >> You got options. Just figure out is it I want to be home? Do I need a job? Do we need the money? Those are the three the three areas you need to get answers for.

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Hey guys, welcome back to the Ramsay show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I didn't say this before cuz George I think they already know but you're George Campbell. I'm Jade Warshaw. >> Thank you for telling them. [laughter] >> They may not have known it from last time. >> They know this voice a mile away. Who's that sultry smooth cowboy tone right there? That's George Campbell. >> Cowboy. I like it. All right. You keep saying that. George. All right. We're going to go to Stacy in Portland, Oregon. What's up, Stacy?

>> Hi. How are you? >> We're doing good. Just living it up.

>> Chopping it up. [laughter] >> Oh, great. So, my um what I'm looking for is some

advice on how to speak to our kids about

just the way different families live their lives in return to spending or excuse me, in regards to spending and debt. Um you know, we've always stuck to a budget, avoided debt, and just lived within our means. Um but we have family members who are constantly being very

irresponsible. They're leasing cars and defaulting on payday loans and all of this. >> Wow. >> Yes. >> How do your kids know about it?

>> Well, they don't. So, the problem is that our kids just see the outside. They see their cousins get to do all these fun things and have a nice new car and get to go out to eat and we don't do as

much of that stuff. >> The underbelly. [laughter] >> So, they're they're throwing a tantrum because they're going, "Mom, why do they get all the cool stuff? We want cool stuff." And you have to be like, "Because we don't go into debt." Well, yeah. We we kind of just brush it

off. We don't really say that, but so that's kind of what I'm wanting to know is how can we >> How old are they? >> Speak to them. >> They are 9 and 11.

>> Perfect. That's a great age cuz they can understand this script, right? Say, "Hey, every family does money differently. In our family, we don't go into debt." And that means we don't borrow to buy stuff because when people borrow, they get things now, but they have to pay for them later, which is stressful.

We choose to wait and save instead. And that's why our life looks different. And the trade-off is worth it because we don't have debt. It means we have more freedom and options and peace and more time together.

And if there's something you really want, we can make a plan for you to save up and get that thing or have that experience. We don't say never. It's just we don't do it with borrowed money.

Would that hit with him or would they go, "All right, I'm going to go play video games." >> Uh, probably the latter.

I mean, I'll be let let me put it like this cuz my son I literally had a

conversation with him last night. He's not uh nine, he's he's seven. My kids are five and seven. And last night it

was like, "Hey, how come I can't play K-pop Demon Hunters?" And [laughter] I

said, "Because I don't think that's an appropriate game for you." So, I start with a very kind of like high level cuz sometimes I can get away with a high level uh because that's just not an appropriate papa and I don't think that that's an appropriate game for you.

Okay. Sometimes he'll take it at that.

But then he took it the next level. He said, "Well, all my friends are playing it." To which I said, "Prince, uh, your

your friends, they have parents, and sometimes your friends parents don't value the same things that me and Papa value, and we value, uh, making sure

that you're always at an age appropriate level with the things in the games that you play." Some parents don't value that. That's their business. It's not our business. And so, it's almost like that with money. It's the same thing of saying, "Hey, you're you're going to see people spend their money in ways that are different from us, and that's just a reflection of our values in this house.

Here's what we value." And I think that if you can frame it up from that set of

values, it actually helps you answer a lot of those questions in the same way.

Do you know what I mean? Cuz then you can always go back to values. Well, in our house, we value this, this, and that, and so that doesn't align. Simple as that. >> Does that help at all? You you honestly, Stacy, you're further down the parent train than I am. So, I mean, how do you

how do you if your kids framed up something like that that they want to watch a movie that you don't approve of or they want to go someplace with their friends that you don't approve of, what would you say to them?

>> No, that is pretty much how I would handle it. Um, pretty much the same

thing is just, you know, different families do things different and what works for us doesn't always work. But

the only thing I I worry about and I don't know maybe I'm thinking too much about it is uh they have cousins who are

close in age and I wouldn't want them going off and saying oh my parents say

your parents are in debt and they're doing >> well that's why you go to the value side and that way you don't have to talk anything about what they're doing. It's not you're not throwing shade at them.

you're just saying, "Hey, we don't have the money for that thing and we're not going to borrow money to do it." And so it's if they go to their cousin's house and say, "Well, our mom says that we we don't we're not going to go into debt for it. We can't afford that right now." Fine. If they want to, you know, judge you for that or, you know, the the family wants to judge you for that, that's fine. You're going to get judgment from family regardless no matter what you do.

>> Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much. Absolutely. No, no worries. I think it's going to take some several conversations. I don't think it's a one time. With a kid, it's like you need to say it 20 times and maybe they'll get it on the 21st. >> Yes. And even when they're younger, sometimes I feel like >> you want to talk about it more than they even care about it. It's like they just brought it up, but then they're already on to the next thing pretty quickly.

Now, at 9 and 11, yeah, they might keep hounding you, especially if it's something they want to have and they keep continually seeing it. But at the end of the day, man, values.

>> Yeah. Tying it back to family values goes a long way. >> I would go to my friend's house, my cousin's house and play with all their toys that they bought and I had a great time and I'd go home and I had my stuff.

>> Yeah. >> I'd sneak over to grandma's if I wanted to watch cable, you know. >> Absolutely. >> And so I didn't feel like I needed to have it personally.

I just wanted access to >> just bum it off somebody else. Exactly. Our neighbors had all the best Nintendo games and so we would go over there and their parents would buy them uh like their they never ate at home. So everything was like, "Do you want McDonald's or Taco Bell or Burger King?" And if you were over there at just the right time, listen, you're getting a happy meal.

>> Great. >> This happens as an adult. Like I love to be on a boat. I am not going to buy a boat.

>> Yes. >> Who's happy to take us out on the boat?

>> Yes. >> That's the key in life. >> The the key in life is knowing that. And it's also to know like sometimes you're around your neighbors and you think I

should have the same lifestyle as they do. After all, we live in the same neighborhood or after all maybe we work at the same workplace. But at the end of the g the day, at the end of the day, you don't really know what their life

is. And so you have to also be careful not to make that comparison game. Kids can do it, but our cousins have this.

But if adults do it, it it it can >> at some point you got to mature and go, I don't need to look at my neighbor's bowl to see what he has. >> Yes. >> Unless I want to make sure he has enough. Right. That that's the only time to be looking over to see opportunity to be generous, not to be envious. Yes.

>> That's [snorts] just that you're drinking a poison. >> I always think about I think it was Kevin Hart. I think it was the Laugh at My Pain comedy special where he was talking about going out. I think it was this. He was basically talking about going out with his celebrity friends.

And it's like if you're friends with basketball players, like it's really easy to think, oh, we're on the basketball team, so we all make good money. But if you're the starting player, like if you're if you're on the starting team, you make a lot more.

>> It's a different world you're living in, >> right? So you have to know that showing up like, hey, I don't have we might all work at the same place or we might all live in the same neighborhood, but it does not mean our lifestyles are supposed to look the same. And I liked that that basketball team kind of analogy to remember. We're all wearing a jersey, but it does not equate to the same life.

[laughter] >> And that's going to happen all over in our normal lives. We all have friends who make a lot more than us, that make a lot less than us. >> And you treat everyone the way you'd want to be treated. You never belittle them.

And you understand everyone's in in a different place [music] financially. >> That's okay.

>> That's their business. >> It's all good, baby. >> Cost you 0 to mind your own business.

>> I know. That's right.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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All right. All right. [music] To the phone lines we go. We've got Carol who's in Cincinnati, Ohio. What's up, Carol?

How can we help today?

>> Hello, Carol. Um, hello to you. Um, my

husband and I are old and retired. I'm

75. He is 80. Um, we have a 52year-old

daughter who still lives with us. Oh,

>> she is single and she is has always been

undermployed and we can afford to have her here, but she is annoyed. We would like to be alone in her old age. >> I bet. >> Is there a way to get her out?

>> Yes, you need to go.

>> Kicking her out, closing the door, changing the locks. [laughter] I'm being dramatic, but yeah, there's a way to get her out with you.

Well, she has um over her lifetime over

her 52 years, she has lived with us almost all the time. >> Oh boy. >> Had two boyfriends that she lived with for a while. One of our sons took her in for a year >> and that helped us out a lot. But then he says she cannot be here anymore and none of our other kids will take her in.

>> Why does anybody need to take her in? Is she Does she have any disabilities? Does she have anything that precludes her from living in life?

>> From working? >> Yeah. >> She doesn't want She doesn't want to work. >> She doesn't have to. >> You want to work? >> But she hasn't had to. >> She's right. And we have enabled us and we need to >> Okay, good. You know that. >> Learn how to not enable her.

>> The way you learn to not enable her is to stop the behavior today cuz she knows

you guys will be a doormat and just keep going and let her come back and keep covering the bills whenever she's short.

And so instead, you go, "Hey, you need to leave by the end of this month." >> Yeah. By the end of this month, >> and then you have to evict her cuz likely there might be actually be some laws around this because she's lived there for a while, receives mail there.

This is like a tenant. And so I would actually look into your state laws and you might need to contact an attorney to do this right. I don't know how how wild she is. She comes after you guys to sue, but you want to make sure you do this right.

>> Okay. Yeah, >> I don't realize there's recent legalities with this. >> I mean, she could >> she's living for 30 years. She's basically squatter's rights at this point. So, you might need to give a written notice and say, "Hey, you need to leave by this time >> and the decision's final. You cannot let her back in. She needs to figure it out.

She needs to spread her wings and fly."

>> Okay? >> And there's going to be backlash. The end of the >> What is What is she going to do when you tell her this?

>> Well, she will probably yell or she will probably cry or she may just stomp out the door and say, "You'll never see me again." >> Okay. Well, that's her choice, though.

52 52 years old. If she does that, then

she You're just going to have to let her do that because that's the behavior of not a 52year-old. I practically speaking, Carol, here's exactly what I would do. You and your husband, I would sit down tonight. Um maybe when you get off this call, you and him huddle up and say, "Here's what I heard on the call.

Here's what we're going to do." You're going to sit down and you're going to say, "Uh, daughter, this has been this has gone on long enough. We have decided that you are moving out. Not that we want you to move out, not that we need you to move out. Say it clear.

We've decided that you are moving out and you're going to move out at the end of the month and you're going to move into your own place.

I'm not saying you have to put her on the street. Do you know if she has any money? Because if you if you know that you know that she has zero dollars, what you and your husband could decide to do is make sure that she at least ends up in a place, right? You can make sure she's there's a place for her to go to and you have it set up that she can go there.

Meaning maybe it's first and last month's rent is paid so she can get into the place, but it's up to her to keep keep the living expenses going. And you let her know that. say we have, you know, and I'm just making this up. We know that you don't have any money, so we're willing to pay first and last month's rent, which is X amount of dollars.

No more, no, you know, no more than that.

up to you. And we have also decided that we're prepared to see this through to the worst extent. We are not it. We're not worried about you becoming homeless.

We're not worried about you not having a place. We're not concerned about that.

We have the full confidence that you can do this. So, please do not come and ask for any money because we will not be giving it to you. And make it so so crystal clear. I love you, but this has to stop for your good and for ours. And that's the conversation. And she's going to yell and kick and scream and you're going to go to bed and you're going to drink a warm glass of milk and you're going to sleep the best sleep of of of your 75 years. [laughter]

This is going to be probably the hardest thing you've ever done in your life, Carol, cuz deep down you love this woman. >> You want what's best for her, and you feel guilty. You feel shame for enabling this behavior and allowing it to happen.

You don't want to see her on the streets and have her life take an even worse turn. But this is the best thing you can do for her because her growth has been stunted for far too long. And if she lives another 30 years, she needs to live it freely with independence, not codependent on mom and dad in their old age. Well, it's for sure. We can Well, we're going to die.

>> We all are, Carol. That's That's good advice. Yeah, it's coming for all of us.

No one escapes it. And so, you need to have a real serious calm conversation telling her, "Here's what's going to happen." >> Does your daughter have any addictions or anything that you think could rear rear its ugly head?

>> Okay. No. >> Has she ever been violent?

>> Uh, when she was a teenager, she been violent. >> Okay. I'm just I'm wondering just for your safety. >> Anything a teenager could do? I I don't think she would. However, she she could be suicidal. She may say, "Okay, there's no point of living. I'll just go end it." >> Is that her doing that just for attention or does she really mean that?

>> She's tried it two or three times.

>> Okay. >> Wow. Um, >> so then making sure you know

>> making sure you know, and I'm sure you've had some sort of counseling on this, what to do in those situations >> and what your role is in those situations. I don't think your role is to let her move in again.

>> I think your role is to get her set up with counseling, right?

>> Yeah. >> And that's the way to do it with kindness. Hey, we're we're going to cover six counseling sessions for you and cover first and last month, but you have 3 days to vacate the premises.

Otherwise, we're going to have to file an eviction and it's going to get ugly.

We don't want to do that, but that would be the next step.

>> Okay? >> And have the non-emergency police line ready to go in case things take a turn.

[laughter] >> I don't know. And so that that's the scary part, the unknown. And it's probably why you've put this off for so long because you don't know what's on the other side of this.

you know, it could get worse before it gets better to die. We we don't want him to get, you know, killed in the streets, >> but we also would like to be have a quiet, peaceful home, >> and that's fine, Carol. You >> It's about time. >> That's totally fine. You're not asking for something crazy. You're not shooting for the stars here. Um, I just I think that for you, your piece in this is just

understanding that your daughter's totally grown and she's going to make decisions that you cannot control and she could make many decisions that you do not like that you don't that you can't control or that you know are bad for her that you can't control. And >> so for you going into this conversation,

as much as you can start to just really

make some peace with that and almost prep yourself for that feeling because something's going to happen that she's going to lash out and you're going to want to do that old familiar song and dance. >> Yeah. Right. >> And she will expect it.

>> And so will you. And it it's it's going to come knocking at the door. And so you're going to have to be prepared mentally and physically. And same thing with your husband because if he folds it's a problem, right? So you guys have

to be >> So he's he is more on this than I am.

>> Okay, good.

>> So you'll have to do your your due diligence to make sure you're loaded for bear when this comes because it's not it's not going to be easy and you know that.

>> And I would warn her, hey, we're going to have a hard conversation tonight.

>> I want to let you know it's going to be uncomfortable, but we need to have it.

Okay. >> That we're not coming in cold, busting in her room, going, "You need to get out yesterday." >> Yeah. Don't do this. That's so good, George. Don't do this out of anger.

Like, if something happens and she comes home tonight and there's an argument, postpone the conversation cuz you can't do this like with a hot head. You have to do this when you're in your most uh

cold state. Like there's there's Yeah, you're zen. >> Oh, good luck. This is not not I don't envy you in having this conversation, but it's so hard because you can't control the past. You regret it. You can control what you do now, but then you can't control how they react and what they do next. >> And that's the hard part. You're like, I want them just to go get a job, start paying rent, and have a great life.

>> Yes. >> But that part is not up to you.

>> You know what? Ah, Christian, send her a copy of my book, What Noone Tells You About Money. It's not a money conversation, but you will love Carol the chapter on guilt and shame.

Especially when it's about something that someone thinks you did not do, even

though you know you're doing the right part, it'll help you

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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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You're listening to the Ramsey Show. Thanks for hanging out with us. All right, guys. Let me tell you a little something about our tax pros. Do you have the sheet, George? I was about to read it. Okay, >> maybe they just gave it to me. I'm special. I'm not. Okay, >> I found it. You want to You want to tag team this with me? Is that what you want to do? Okay, I'll read the first one.

George, I don't know if you know this, but one of the best things you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro in your corner that you can trust. >> Absolutely. They'll help advise you on the best moves to make for your situation or for your small business, especially if you've had some big life changes in the past year.

>> That's right. So go to ramseyolutions.com/taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsay team. So so important. >> Speaking of team, what a great team we just made. >> Peanut butter and jelly. [laughter] >> I love it. Ryan in Columbus, Ohio is up next. Hey Ryan.

>> Hey, how are you?

>> Hey, my question is related to starting

a small business. I am 23 years old. I have my own auto repair shop. I've been running it for approximately a year. here. I set up the business in January of 2025. Um, the thing I'm running into

now is I started out in a very small one

bay garage building. Um, I've got a

single service bay, very small space. I did that all with cash. That was my goal out uh without borrowing anything. Now I'm running into the issue of I've got

customers that I'm losing their work

because they don't have the space and efficiency to get it through because of you know I tear some apart I got to get it out before I can get something else in. You know that kind of thing. Um >> and uh and so I'm wondering at what point the balance is between gaining

efficiency and borrowing to do so. I I'm

trying not to borrow, but I'm lo I feel like I'm really losing efficiency and traction because of it. >> What would it take What would it take financially to expand in cash?

>> Well, I've I've got the end of 2025, I

was able to to mostly cash flow uh the

shell of a building that's going to be a three bay shop building. Um it's all it is on my own property, so I own the land. There's no additional uh lease or anything like that. Um I I had a contractor put it up that cost me about $30,000 in the building package. It's just the shell, just very basic shell um of a building. >> What about the rest of it sitting there like that? >> If I had another maybe 30 to 40 that

would get it insulated, heated ready to

go uh to be able to make money out of

it. >> What are you taking home from the business every month? [clears throat] >> Last year I basically didn't pay myself.

I was living off of personal savings for uh my personal bills. Um that of course

only lasted for a certain amount of time. This year my goal is to pay myself approximately $3,000 a month. Um and that's what I have it set up uh for this year. Last year I paid myself like $6,000 out of the business.

>> Are you working full-time on top of this?

>> No, no, this is my full I quit my full-time job December of 2024.

>> That's awesome. >> Okay. But you've made $6,000.

>> That was what I paid myself as a salary.

>> Yeah. You made I'm telling you, you made $3 an hour doing this last year. Do you understand the math on this?

>> No. So, let me be clear. So, I I was only working full-time for myself. I was doing some other part-time gigs at the beginning of the year as work picked customer work picked up. The business itself had a gross revenue uh with customer work of $120,000 last year. and

the net or the the gross profit I should say after cost of goods sold and labor cost um was about 80,000 >> that's how you were able to do the three bay deal and all that >> correcting all the pay personal salary correct but that can't go on forever obviously this year I'm hoping to to actually create a sustainable salary for myself >> how long will it take

you if you pay yourself that 3k a month how long will it take you to take some of the earnings out of the business and save up Well, the 40,000, but what I really want to ask is, and I'm sure you've turned this around every which way, is there a way that you can get that three bay uh

shell? What's the least amount of work that you need to do on it? Just so you can get in there >> and get some business and garage I could

put concrete and garage doors in for probably around 20 20 to 25.

>> Okay. How long would it take you to get that? me till the winter.

>> Uh, so that would probably take me

that's probably going to take me, you know, maybe the next 6 months, I want to say, before I could comfortably feel like I could write those checks.

>> Okay. So 6 months gets us kind of 6 months gets us a platform and the doors that we need. And after you have that installed, would you be able to do a little bit of work out of a little bit of business out of there?

>> I would be able to move my main operations into there. It would just be that within a couple of months after that I would be needing insulation and heat which is kind of like where the rest of the >> Well, that's great comes in. >> But at least you could start making money out of it >> tight.

>> The point is you could at least start making money out of it so you're not having to turn away business in 6 months >> plus plus actual work, right?

>> And then I feel like once I've got some more space, it's going to be more equipment and more all that stuff that's going to be, you know, that's where the thousands and thousands add up. Would would that be uh just something that I would just I know I know Dave says about being on the cover of Slow magazine and that's really what I feel like right now. >> Means you're doing it right. >> You're doing the the next smallest step that you can take.

So right now and you tell me if I'm wrong, but the the the the next baby step is I'm going to spend 20 to 25 doing the garage and the doors and I'm going to kind of move everything over there. Now I can start taking on more customers. Now I have more cash flow coming in. So, I should be able to pretty quickly add the insulation.

And now that's going to create a better environment for everybody. I can keep I've now tripled the amount of work I'm doing cuz I have three spaces now. And now I can keep going. And you should be able to whatever the you know, machinery and things you need.

The more that you're doing is the more money that you'll come in to be able to do, if that makes sense. Mhm. I'm just worried right now I'm losing business because I'm not able to, you know, get stuff in fast enough for people.

>> Not going to hurt me long term.

>> But it's not [laughter] going to hurt you long term cuz you're going to do this in 6 months. So, you've got 6 months to kind of grit it out. And I mean, there might be some solutions that you can figure out in the in the short term. Um, but understanding that I'm

kind of having this short-term suffering, which is, uh, I hate the feeling of turning business away, but also knowing that in six months you're not going to have to do that.

>> And there's no payments to be made and no debt to pay off, which just increases if >> everything would fold up or if I would break my leg or something, you know, that it wouldn't be eating me up on payments while I'm not able to produce an income or that. You're just adding risk to the equation if everything else would pull out. You're not going to be gaining. >> I am making money.

Yeah, I feel like I'm making money on how to fix cars. It's just that it's very very slow because everything costs a lot. >> So, what's your what's your you tell us what you want to do?

What's your gut telling you to do?

>> I don't want to borrow money.

>> Then don't. There's no You said at the beginning of the call, I I want to try to not borrow money. Instead, rephrase it. I'm not going to borrow money. I will move at the speed of >> I feel like everybody in my industry I feel like everybody in my industry is making payments on everything and I feel like I'm kind of the slow dog.

>> That's fine. You read you ever read The Tortoise in the Hair? Reread it tonight.

It'll be a good reminder.

>> It's one of Dave's favorite books cuz here's the thing. It's really hard to fall flat on your face and have this business fail if there's no debt attached to it. What you're really buying is freedom >> even though it's going to take more time and it's moving slower and the guy next door is crushing it because he's got a bunch of payments and he's it's working for him. But man, you are a soloreneur

and I can't tell you how many small businesses fail because they're overleveraged and they thought they'd have the customer base. They thought they would make money and the lender doesn't freaking care. They want their payment every month regardless if your business succeeds or fails.

>> And I think I'm 23. You haven't been an adult long enough to to be learn patience yet. So that's probably >> Well, no, you have. You have.

I'm going to tell you right now when you called in, Ryan, and you told us what you did, I was immediately impressed, which George knows it's hard to for me to feel impressed. >> Jade, am I anyone?

you already are patient. I think what's happening is what happens to all of us,

which is you kind of had your, you know, like horses, they wear the thing around their eyes so that they can't see to the right or left so they don't get spooked.

You know what I'm talking about?

>> I think that that I think the blinder came off and you look to the right for a second and it spooked you and you're like, "Oh, maybe I'm not doing it right.

Maybe I need to go on another path. Maybe I need to you need to put your blinder back on and keep focusing on your business. What you've done is working. You're so successful that you can't keep every you can't take all your customers. You're so successful.

>> Problem. Now's not the time to go do something else and go into debt. Now's the time to keep steady. Keep going on your path. What got you the the the business you have is who you are. You're great at fixing cars. You do what you say you're going to do, right? Let that follow you into this next phase of your business.

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Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[music]

All right, the Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Wy 5. Hey, you don't have to stay stuck in defaulted private student loans forever.

Y Refi helps borrowers take back control with affordability refinancing options that actually work. Learn more at yrefi.com/ramsey.

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And remember, it may not be available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Glenn in Virginia. I've been looking at my credit report to make sure I'm including everything I need to pay off in my debt snowball. If an account is listed as closed but still shows a balance, do I still owe that money? If so, should I call them and set up plans to repay what I owe?

Good question. Well, closed just means the the account is no longer active. So, if you closed it with a balance, that's a normal thing to do. It may have been, you know, charged off in collections.

Um, but you want to look for those key phrases. Paid in full would be a nice key phrase to see that it's actually paid. So, you likely still owe them

money. Closed with a balance does not mean it's been forgiven. It just means it's not active there. So, I would call them and set up plans to repay what you owe because you likely do.

>> Oh, yeah. Definitely. Definitely. And doing the doing it based on your credit report.

That's a good place to start cuz sometimes there are things that are active actively holding a balance, I should say, that you don't know about it cuz maybe you moved or they stopped sending you notices or it went to your spam account. Anything like that is possible >> and it's a good you can check it for free. Never pay for this. You can go to a website annualcreditreport.com and pull it from all three credit bureaus without paying a dime and it's worth doing.

>> Very very good. Let's go to Victor in Chicago, Illinois. I love that name, Victor. What's up?

>> What's wrong? >> Hello.

>> You're welcome. Um so I am currently in

uh 50 like 50k a little bit over 50k in

debt uh with credit cards uh personal

loan and a vehicle.

>> Okay. Um, so my question is

how smart or dumb would it be for me to

close like not close out but take out a

big chunk of my 401k which is about 62,000 to pay out most of my debt.

>> It would be a mistake.

>> From the smart to dumb spectrum, it's as pretty much as far as you can get on the dumb side. The idea of paying off the debt is not dumb, but doing it in that way to George point George's point is would not be a smart avenue. >> Now, go ahead, George. >> I would just I want you to think about what's actually happening here because a lot of people just go, "Well, I can break into the piggy bank in case of emergency." But here's what actually happens when you pull 50k out.

It's more like 75 and 90K because you have a 10% early withdrawal penalty. So 50k, you pay $5,000 right there.

to net 50k you'd have to pull out 65 or 70 plus that money is now pulled out forever and if you pop in 50 grand how old are you? >> 38 >> 38 from 38 to 68 that 30-year gap of

that 50k growing for you would be hundreds of thousands of dollars. And so you didn't make a $50,000 mistake you made one with a lot more zeros on the end. And so you're robbing from your future to pay for a current to put out a current fire. And so there's better ways to do it.

So let's get into the better way. Are you with me that you're not going to do this? >> Yes. >> Hallelujah.

Okay. [laughter] >> Yes. >> So what is the 50k in debt? Break it down.

32 left to pay off.

>> 32,000 or 3,200?

>> 32,000. >> Okay. >> To pay off. Um, and uh, credit cards add

up to about 10 10,000 and the rest is

the car. >> Okay. How much do you make a month?

>> Uh, roughly about fivek.

>> Okay. So, we're bringing home 60k. We

got 50k in debt. And so, this is a a math problem to solve, which is we need more income and we need to cut down our expenses down to the bone. So the question is what caused you to to get here? What did you spend the money on from these personal loans and credit cards? >> So the first I I uh racked up the credit

the credit cards uh credit cards between um like regular credit cards and then I

consider Afterpay and Clar all that also credit cards. Why were you spending that because you're trying to survive and your budget is not getting you enough money or tell

me tell me what caused that.

>> It was uh wants >> uh fast uh if I didn't have the the

liquid cash it would be the fastest way to get it and pay off a little bit little by little. Uh but it it had racked up. So I took out a personal personal loan um to clear all of that

and so took out the loan and didn't

didn't stop the spending. >> Yeah. So another great reason not to take the 401k loan because we've already learned that that method of kind of taking a loan to pay off debt doesn't work, right? >> Yeah. So George and I are going to suggest a way that's really going to cure your behavior because it's going to cause you to have to make real changes,

really feel things, therefore kind of learning your lesson the old-fashioned way, which is I get a consequence and it doesn't feel good. I don't know. I probably shouldn't say this, but back in my day, we used to get spankings when we did things wrong and it hurt. It's It

hurt. It was like, oh my gosh. and you cry and you make sure that from now on you're back home before the street lights come on. And so that's kind of what this is going to do to you is you're going to feel like, man, I never want to do that again. It's going to feel like discipline for you to do this.

So, >> okay, >> George is right. Income uh is the main deal here. There's really two parts to this equation. It never changes, Victor.

You need to cut back and you need to increase income simultaneously. Both of those things. How much is your rent?

Uh 1,00. >> Okay, great. I'm glad to hear that. So for you, it is like bare bones. It's just you, no wife, no kids. In my mind,

if I'm you, >> I am going down to >> nothing. All right. I'm cutting everything out. The memes uh used to say disappear for a while and then and then you come back debtree. That's you.

You're disappearing. >> Okay. >> Okay. And then in the meantime, you're working like Michael Jackson said, day and night.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> What can you do? What What are some Tell me, list off a couple of ideas that you can do for work so I know that you get it. >> Uh well, I'm I'm a very handyman, so I could definitely do some side side gigs with when it comes to like uh like

construction. >> Great. I can really get my hands on if I

could get a job doing something, I could do it pretty much other than tech. I'm not good at tech. >> Okay, awesome. Can >> Can you advertise that? Can you get on Thumbtac? Can you get on uh a Facebook group?

>> Yeah, I could probably do that.

>> Yeah, do that immediately. And And I would start in my circle. If you go to a buddy's house and you realize something's wrong, say, "Oh, I'll do that. I'll charge you 50 bucks." Go to your parents house. the the fence is broken, say, "Oh, I'll fix that at 75 bucks." Start marketing your talents and just start noticing stuff and just start telling folks, "You'll fix it for this amount." Okay. In the meantime, and then

get get on one of those sites. Uh f What

are the different I'm thinking Thumbtac Fiverr. I've used all those different all those different apps where you can rabbit. That's another one. >> Uhuh. Where you can put your your things out there. And here's the thing. You need to make a goal. I want you to go on Every Dollar Tonight. If you don't have it, Christian will pick it up and we'll give it to you. And I want you to plot out with what you're making now. Do do the the part in there that's going to uh tell you how long it's going to take.

So, you'll fill out the you'll fill out the onboarding there, and it's going to tell you at your current pace, it's going to take this long. And it's going to suggest a bunch of things for you to do, Victor, to find stuff. Get the side hustle, pause all investing, which please tell me you will pause all investing down to zero.

And so that means like no contributions to the 401k. >> Yeah. Zero. What that's going to do is free up more money to go toward the debt. We need to focus on one thing right now and that is becoming debtree and staying debtree.

>> And so all of this together is going to help you. We're going to do the debt snowball. Smallest to largest balances.

Attack the little one with everything you got. Minimum payments on the rest.

And here's the math on it. The napkin math says if you can put a little over two grand a month towards your debts, you're debtree in less than two years.

>> Okay? >> So that's the plan. I know that sounds like forever and you want the shortcut of just knocking it out now, but you're just trading one debt for another right now. And so that's we can't look to debt to be the solution anymore. You are the solution. Your future income, anything you have in savings above a thousand bucks, anything you can sell, all of your talents and skills put to good use.

That's what's going to get you there, man. We're rooting for you. >> Yeah, you can do this. Call us back and tell us when you're debtree.

>> [music]

>> Well, welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair's Credit Union studio. George, are you ready to get to another call?

>> I don't know how I could be more ready, truthfully. >> Well, I'm pretty ready. And this person is is in Austin, Texas. Sydney is on the line. Hey. Hey, Sydney. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> You bet. >> I just I just wanted to make sure that we're on the right track um with the amount of money we're making, saving, investing, and still feeling like we have money to spend on the things that we want and not eagerly waiting for payday. >> Oh, okay. Tell us more about your situation.

Um, so I just downloaded every uh every

dollar this month 2026 getting on our on

our uh budgeting and I plugged in all of our bills and all the things that we want to spend money on and there seems to be quite a bit left over yet the past especially the past six months uh the past year really we just eagerly waiting for payday. >> Okay. What do you >> So, in reality, you're paycheck to paycheck, but on paper, in every dollar, it's like, hey, you should have $8,000.

Well, you know, you're like, what? Where is this going? >> That means you're just not sticking to the numbers.

>> Yeah, we're not sticking to the numbers.

And we do put away a little bit in savings. We do have quite a bit in savings, but is not as much as we would hope considering how much money we make.

>> How do you make?

>> So, this this information just became privy to me. Um, my husband's been taking care of the finances up until now, but he is seeing that I cannot budget if I do not have the information.

So, he helped me out setting up the Every Dollar app, putting in his income, and I pay all of the bills, and I do all that kind of thing with the shared money, but I make sure all the bills are paid. Okay. >> I think it's about 40 about 40k a month.

>> $40,000 a month. So, you're talking like half a million dollar take-home >> a year. Yeah. Wow. Some months it's a little less, some months it's a little bit more. >> I was not expecting that with the way this call was set up. I'm not going to lie.

>> Okay. So 40,000 a year is a lot. I just I think America's going I wouldn't know how to spend $40,000 a month if you gave it to me. >> Yeah. What's your mortgage? What's your mortgage pay on to my every dollar and you could check how I spend it. >> You should DM it to Jade and I just for fun cuz we we have a dark curiosity. We want to know how you would even do that.

>> Listen, if you did, we would look at it.

>> So tell us tell us tell us the biggest

>> tell us a couple of the biggest line items on your budget. I'm guessing there's a house. I'm guessing.

>> Well, we try to put away about 12K, maybe like between 10 and 12 for taxes every month just to make sure that that's in an account. So when that happens, we're not like scrging. So that we do put away. >> So that's not actual income then.

>> Yeah. No, we put away Oh, yeah. But that's before taxes. >> Oh, okay. So after taxes, it's closer to 28,

>> I guess. So >> Okay. So in every dollar you're going to list takehome pay. Is that what you did or did you list the gross amount?

>> No, I listed the gross and then I put in as a category taxes.

>> Got it. Okay. Okay. It may be helpful for your, you know, sake to to do it the other way. But if you're taking if the gross money shows up in the account, that's what you're budgeting off of. So that makes sense. >> Yeah. Because the gross will show up at our account and then we take care of paying paying taxes quarterly.

>> Okay. Fantastic. And then how much is your mortgage every month?

>> So we have a rent is 3,300 a month.

>> Fine. >> Okay. any debts,

>> a little bit of credit cards for just the last couple of months being lazy to pay it off. And we want to put a lot of money into savings so we don't end up paying the credit card. Not much, maybe 16K at most. And if we really wanted to, we could pay it off. We just we want to make sure we're on the right track and really start budgeting. >> Did I'm sorry, can I go back a second?

Did I hear you say you rent?

>> Yes, we rent. >> Uh why? How long have you been making this money?

um this money about a year for the year before that it was clo it was also good.

I'm yeah we've been married four years so it's been it's been getting better every couple years. >> Okay. But you've been six figures for upper six figures for quite a while.

>> We've always been six figures. Um upper six figures. Yeah. For quite a while.

>> I understand the renting part >> right quick. I'm just >> Location Location is very important to us. Um, when we first moved here to Texas, uh, the company was paying our rent, so we're like, great, pay our rent. Um, and now they're not no longer, but we still want the location is very important, and we're looking for a house.

We're looking. >> Okay. So, sorry, that was just a squirrel I needed to chase. Okay.

Um, continue, George. You got a train of thought.

>> Mhm. >> That feels >> Yeah. And we have quite a bit in savings. We How much have quite a bit in the stock market?

>> I'm not 100% sure. My husband has uh access to that account, but he has I think he put 30K into the market in the last couple months and he's got to have about 60 or 70K in his s in his high yield savings account. >> Okay. So, I'm picking up on another issue here.

I know you called about one thing, but part of the issue is you don't have the transparency you need to know what's actually going on. It sounds like you asked for that so you can make the budget, but you really do, Sydney, need to know all of these numbers. Um, so that you both can live in a state of reality with your money instead of guessing. It's hard to be in reality when you're guessing.

>> If one hand doesn't know what the other's doing, you're going to always have this problem and keep living in the cycle. >> You both have to be on the same page with full accountability and transparency. So, that's step one. And then, do you have any other debts outside of the credit card?

Any car payments, student loans?

but yeah, we have leases, but we don't intend to own a car.

>> What are they? What are the leases?

>> So, I drive a 20 2025 U minivan, and that's 8.93 a month. Um, it's important

to my husband that I'm in a reliable vehicle every couple years, and he drives a Range Rover for just under 3K a

month. >> Goodness gracious. >> So, let me go back to the minivan talk.

Um, so basically what you're saying is that 99% of the population is not in a

reliable vehicle if they don't switch it out every three. No, no, I didn't say that. She does. >> Right. But my point is to call out the ridiculousness of that statement. And therefore, that means that you know it too. Plenty of people buy a car. Even if

you bought a brand new car and you just drove it until, you know, I don't know, for 10 years until you whatever, that would be more reasonable than the statement that was said.

>> You guys are dropping four grand a month to rent cars >> and you're prepaying all the depreciation.

>> Exactly. >> So, that's part of the problem. I think that's a a a microcosm of a bigger

problem here, which is you guys, you make great money and you want to show it off, right? There's some flaunting here.

And the truth is, you could save up and buy these things outright and it would still be okay. But we haven't actually we don't have the discipline. We have the savings muscle there cuz he can shovel money away in other places, but you guys are totally okay taking on debt and payments because you can stomach it right now. >> Yeah.

I wonder why I wonder why there's the aversion because I agree 100% with George. You guys make good money. If you want nice things, have at it. You don't have a ton of debt.

But leasing is crazy. You could have literally bought both of these vehicles outright and nobody would have said a word to you. We would have been like, "Great, >> that's awesome." And it would have been yours and you wouldn't have been paying out outrageous interest and all these things on this.

There's the two leased cars. Anything else?

>> Um, nothing. Oh, uh, the only other significant uh is I have a lady that comes help me with my kids and with the cleaning. >> Sure. And I'm when I put it into every dollar, I put in $2,000 a month. But between you and me, it's usually a little bit more because it's five o'clock and she just stays extra. And I pay her I more. >> Okay. So call it three.

>> So on the on the budget, here's what I think you need to do, Sydney. So when you make the first budget, it's a guess, right? It's I think it's this. I think it's that. I don't know if you've actually gone back and I I'm not sure how long you've been on a budget, but if I were you, I tonight, [music] I would go back and download some old bank statements and really see here's

what I actually spent. Add up what you spent on on food. Add up what you spent on, you know, Door Dash. Add up what you spent on housekeeping. Add up add up those [music] actual numbers and plug them in every dollar. Then you're going to have what's called an accurate budget of what you spend. Then you can decide what makes sense to cut back on. And that's honestly all you need to do is cut back on frivolous spending.

[music]

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsay

trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramsysolutions.com/insurance.

You're listening to the Ramsay Show.

George, I want to come back real quick and talk about the last call that we got because it dawned on me, you know, they were renting their entire lifestyle.

>> [music] >> They were renting their home, renting their cars. And it's very hard to build

wealth if you don't at some point lock in and make yourself a owner of the

things that are in your life. We talk all the time about renting is okay uh for a certain period of time. Obviously, you rent and it buys you time to be able to buy. That's it's not throwing money down the drain or anything like that, but just be careful. uh things like leases, guy, leases are the most expensive way to operate a vehicle. It

is like you said, George, you are renting a car. And if you're out here

trying to do anything that we teach, if you have a lease, that needs to be the first thing that you look at. I mean, >> well, and and the other problem is it's really hard to get out of these things.

>> Very hard. >> I mean, you got to get the buy. You have to have the entire amount in full to get out of a lease. Yes.

You can't just like put extra on it and get out. That's the awful part. And good luck trying to get someone to take over your lease. You got to find someone who's real boneheaded to do that.

>> So, it's it really is one of the biggest traps people fall for. And who falls for it the most? High earners. Because they want to look good.

>> Yeah. And and they end up paying ridiculous. Obviously, leases don't have uh interest. The way we think of it is it's cost of capital >> baked into your payment.

>> Yes. >> To look good driving the Range Rover.

So, Here's the here's the key. Instead of looking wealthy, you want to actually be wealthy. And instead of just looking like you have nice things, actually have nice things by owning it outright.

Building equity towards owning the home, paying cash for that car if you can actually afford it. But instead, we want to shortcut our way and just, well, we can have it right now. It's kind of like a petulant toddler who just like, I can't wait. I got to have it now or else I'm gonna throw my tantrum.

>> Yeah, >> I work I work really hard. I deserve it.

Those are the three two most dangerous words in the English language. I deserve I deserve. >> Oh yes, I write. I have a whole chapter on that and in and what no one tells you about money. So the point the moral of the story guys is exactly what George said. Don't be fake rich. Be real rich.

Especially when you have real money to be real rich. All right, let's go to Kyle in Chicago, Illinois. What up, Kyle? >> Hi. Uh, thanks for having me on the show. Uh my question today is uh should

I cash out my whole life policy?

>> Short answer, yes. Let's talk about it though. Tell us tell us more about your situation.

>> I started it back uh December 2014.

>> The total value to Yeah.

>> You're behind that.

>> Who hated you enough to sell you that policy? Was it an old college buddy?

>> No, it was my wife's cousin.

>> Oh, even worse. [laughter] That's blood, man. That's dark stuff.

>> On top of that, a year later, uh, I saw him at Christmas and he said, "Yeah, I quit that company because they were making me sell things I didn't believe in." >> I hate to ask, but how much money have you poured into this thing since 2014?

And how much is cash value at this point? >> Okay. Uh, as of now, $69,000 I've paid

in. >> Oh boy. And what's your cash value?

>> 59,000. >> Oh, brutal.

Okay. So, you know, you need to surrender the policy. So, what's the what's the question behind the question?

>> Uh, so based off the chart that they sent me, I'm on year 12.

Based off the chart, it looks like on year 15 would be my break even point.

>> Wow. So, you want to keep >> three more years. could uh well that's why I called in and asked you guys but >> what's the death benefit?

>> Uh half a million. >> Oh my god. >> Goodness gracious. You could have got that with term life for like pennies on the dollar. >> Yeah. It wasn't until I started listening to Dave Ramsey that I knew I screwed up. >> Yeah. Well, it's okay. We're not here to shame you. Like tons of people fall for this stuff. Do you want to shout out the name of the company that he left?

>> Uh I'd rather not. >> Okay. Just making sure. Just want to let you, you know, vent if you want to vent.

All right. So, I would surrender the policy. What you're experiencing right now is some cost fallacy. You're like, "Well, I already put this much in. If I stick with it just a little bit longer, three more years of payments, I can break even." I would take the loss and go, "Hey, that sucked. It was a hard lesson to learn." The good news is you sound like a young upstanding guy with a great income. So, you're still going to be able to build wealth. So, chalk it up to a hard lesson that was learned here.

>> Okay. What do you make? >> Oh, go ahead. Mhm. Uh, so my wife and I make $160,000 a year.

>> Fantastic. >> Uh, >> what do you make personally?

>> I make 80. >> Okay, great. So, you need a policy worth

10 to 12 times your annual income. So, you're already low on the death benefit even with this super expensive, crappy policy. So, I would number one get term life insurance in place first before you surrender the whole life policy >> so that there's no lapse in life insurance.

>> And so, Keep going. >> Uh the next part was about two years ago. I called and asked about uh cashing

out the policy and they offered a cash

value plus a term life.

Like they would take the difference of what a term life would be. >> I'm not doing any more business with this company. >> Okay? >> They can't be trusted to offer you any product. >> It's been 20 years of pain.

>> So I would contact Xander. That's who I have my term life insurance policy through. You can call them at 800356-4282 or jump on Xander.com and get a quote.

You can actually do a lot of these online. Like for you, you need a let's say million-doll policy, 10 to 12 times your annual income. And you can do that with no medical exam. Do it completely online and you're in good shape. You sound healthy.

>> Well, thank you. [laughter] >> And how old are you?

>> Uh 36 years old. >> Okay. Same age as me. So likely your policy isn't going to be that much for a million dollar policy. It's going to be you're going to be like, "Wow, what a discount I just got after paying this whole life premium for 11 years." >> And so it is worth it. You're going to get double the coverage for a fraction of the price you were paying. >> You can turn around and invest that difference on your own in actual good,

>> you know, mutual funds.

>> Likely 1 to 3% is what people see the return on their whole life policy.

>> One to three. You could literally do better in a high yield savings account.

That's truly what we're saying.

>> Yeah. >> So, step one, term life. Step two, surrender. And you'll get some cash value out of it. What will you get at the end of the day? Have you looked into it? >> Uh, I'd get $60,000 if I cashed out

today.

>> I'd take that. >> Yeah, take that. >> Do you have any debt? Do you have any uh >> I have uh mortgage only debt and it's $60,000 is what we owe.

>> I love this. This is more than coincidence, my friend.

>> That feels like a divine appointment.

>> So, you're telling me by like the end of next week, you could be completely debtree, house and everything, and not have a whole life policy.

>> Yeah. And I guess the next question is, my interest rate is only 2.1%.

>> Who cares, dude? Do you What's your mortgage pay?

>> Pay off the house. >> Yes. Pay off the house.

>> Uh 1,200 a month.

>> Okay. You want to do some some fun math?

Do you have do you have any money in retirement right now?

>> Yeah, me and my wife have $270,000

in retirement savings and I'll have a pension when I retire. I hope. >> That's so awesome. Fantastic.

>> If you did nothing, if you don't invest anything except that mortgage payment, you would have $5.3 million between the two of you at 62. If you just invest the 1,200 bucks, you don't do anything else.

>> I like that math. >> And so, you're already doing more than that. So, I'm not worried about, well, it's 2%. Who cares at this point, dude?

You are on your way to building serious wealth. And you can't put the psychological piece into a spreadsheet.

And it's so hard for me to explain because I'm the guy who paid off his low interest mortgage. And everyone's like, "Why would you do that?" And now it's becoming a trend. Everyone's like, "Well, I paid it off cuz I wanted the peace of mind. And if something happens, you don't have to worry about it.

And if you lose income, you don't have to think about it. You just have more flexibility and options.

>> Yeah. >> You wouldn't do that, would you?

>> No. >> Right. >> So, I don't think the spread is worth it on keeping the mortgage. And uh I would

just try to stomach the sunk cost fallacy and go, "Man, I got screwed by someone that I trusted by a company that essentially felt like a scam." And you learned your lesson. 36 is actually early. A lot of people >> We've all done crap like this, Kyle.

Just so you know. >> You got a lot of life ahead [laughter] of you. You guys are going to build outstanding levels of wealth. I have no fear. So, call up Xander. Get on the website. Get that term life policy in place. For anyone that has anyone depending on them, you need term life.

10 to 12 times your annual income. A 15 to 20 year term is what makes sense for most people. It's so affordable knowing that your family is covered. >> Yeah. And just remember, term life insurance, guys, it's not a baby step.

It's not something you do once you hit some point. You do it immediately. I don't care if you're in baby step one. If folks are depending on your income, you need life insurance and you need it today.

[music]

How many of you are ready for a fresh start with money this year? Maybe you want to pay off debt or start saving for retirement. And those are great goals, but you're also probably thinking, "Well, sure, Rachel, but with what money? My budget is so tight as it is." Listen, I hear you, but you can do more with your money this year.

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[music]

>> [music] >> Thanks for listening to the Ramsey Show.

Back to the phone lines we go. Phillip in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Phillip.

>> Hey guys, how are y'all? Thank you for taking my call and thank you to this call screener for doing the same thing.

>> Well, you bet. Christian is the best in the biz. >> Look at this. Shout out to Christian.

They don't get enough love. They're really doing the work on the front lines. >> Listen, we got to protect us. >> Yes, they you do. You do lots of work and we're grateful to everybody in the booth.

>> Hearts. >> How can we help, Philip?

>> Well, guys, this is a hard question because there's probably some emotion involved in it. So, um, my wife and I

are on our well, I'm on my second marriage, she's on our third. Um, and for 10 years, we've been living really happy and we're happy now. That's great.

Um, we we took on just before co we

bought a farmhouse.

We paid $71,000 for it. We put 40 in it.

We remodeled the whole thing. We put we put it on the market a year later and

the realtor said, "No, you need to list it for 315." Okay. So, we walked away

with 175K in profit, which was amazing.

We weren't expecting it. we were expecting maybe 50. So, uh, the market's

been great to us. We've we've actually flipped one other home since then, and the one we're in, we've been for four years.

We're thinking about selling it. Um,

and, uh, the house is should sell for around 3:15. Uh, we got a $70,000

helock, a $4,000 personal line of credit, and a truck uh that I bought recently for uh 29,000 is what I owe on it. Um, the new house is on a golf

course in a neighborhood that I always wanted to live in and

it's it's beautiful. It's a French provincial home. My wife loves to decorate. I love to give her a canvas to decorate on. And uh, the house is listed at 724.

We're looking to make an offer on this house that won't exceed 600. And we believe that around 570 is where we would be. Uh, realistically >> 570 as far as a mortgage.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, how much will you do you think you'll get from the proceeds of this house?

>> This one? Uh, the realtor uh he he he's

saying around 315.

>> Okay. >> Is it paid for?

>> Oh, yeah. We owe a $70,000 helock.

>> Okay. So, that's all you owe. You don't have a a traditional mortgage on it.

Correct. Yeah, we paid cash for it and then um we fixed it up with with more cash, but we've had to fix the basement, put in a new heating and air, and then we actually put in some hardwood floors, too. >> Okay. So, after fees, will you walk away with like $300,000? You think?

>> 315. You know, I figured I I figured if

we if we sold it for 315, we paid off the delock, the personal line of credit in the truck, we'd have around 190 uh

left over. >> Okay. And that'll be your down payment >> for the next house. >> That's that's that's fees and everything. Yes. >> And let's say you get this new house.

You think you could get it for 600?

>> I believe that. >> You think they're going to take that low ball? Yeah, that's very low.

>> Well, so it's a 4200 square foot house that was built in the 60s and it's not been remodeled at all. Um, >> has it been on the market a long time?

It's been on the market almost 4 months and um and and you know we're an hour

north of Raleigh so it's not the Raleigh

market. Um the median price per square

foot is around 150 >> okay >> in Henderson. Um

and it's on an acre of land. So it's you know it's a pretty average I think the median pretty well applies. Okay. So, the the short of it is, let's say you got it for 600 and you were able to put 200 down. So, it leaves you with a $400,000 mortgage >> and what is your what's your monthly take-home pay as a household after tax but before other deductions?

>> Um, let's see. So, it's around 7,600

take-home.

Um, but I also have a tax business

uh that I've been running since ' 07. I do around 300 tax returns a year. So,

you know, we we'll probably net around

30,000 from that and then I usually get about a $10,000 bonus every year.

>> Okay. >> As well. >> So, have you done the math on what the mortgage payment would be every month if you got a $400,000 mortgage with today's rates?

>> It's around the 25% mark.

>> Okay. Is that a 30-year though, I'm guessing? >> Yeah, it has. >> Yeah, that's a 30-year. That's not the 15 years it talked about.

>> Okay. Well, our parameter is 15-year mortgage, no more than a quarter of your take-home pay, and you guys, you're you're close. You're on the line. I think you could get there with a little bit of patience uh and saving.

You have a great income. And so, it might just be a little longer. Um and it's hard when you got your sight set on a very specific house. You're like, "This has to be it." It kind of gets you stareyed and causes you to make some bad decisions.

But, I like the overall plan of selling the house, paying off all of your debt, having savings left over plus the down payment. >> How much other savings do you have? What do you have? What others cash do you have?

>> How much is that? >> Um, it's around $2,000.

And um and then I've got a 401k at work,

which can't touch that, you know.

>> Did you say your emergency fund is $2,000?

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Um and then and that's the only non-retirement money you have,

>> correct? Yes.

>> Okay.

Yeah. [clears throat] >> Okay. Yeah. I I gotta say I I I love

this plan, but the only thing is I agree with George. I just don't think you're quite ready to make this move. You're talking about making a major move. Um

you've got this debt. The debt will be cleared off. There's no extra money laying around anywhere. This has to for this to work. Everything has to fall perfectly.

You have to get the house for the exact right amount. And what I can tell you is you're emotionally invested. And so if you don't get it for 600, I think you're going to make the offer anyway.

And I think I'm a little worried about that. Uh I'm I think that if they said 680, you'd take it. Or if they said 700,

you'd take it. You see what I'm saying?

And with no money saved, >> yeah, I would want to. >> Your wife has already predecorated this house. That's the problem. And so that's what I'm worried about. And on a 15 year, you're looking at more like a $4,000 mortgage. And so that's the reality here is that it's over half of your take-home pay. And now there's pressure. Now you have to have this side business work out permanently.

>> And so I just don't want this house to go from blessing to burden real quick when you bid off a little more than you could chew >> and when you only have 2,000 saved because then your next order of business really quick would be saving up 3 to six months of expenses because you don't have any saved. >> So what if we cleaned up the debt with future income? Then we got a fully funded emergency fund.

>> Absolutely. >> Now, that looks more like a Oh, this is going to be we're in this house for two more years. That's the the tough reality that the news you got to break to your wife.

>> Well, and and and we're both on the same page with this. We could go either way yet. Yes, she has it decorated, but you know what? The same decorations are in the house we're in right now.

So, that's true. Um, [laughter] >> that's true. >> We're we're we're realistic about it and to be honest, we've been back and forth and back and forth. I've basically done a home inspection on it and everything else.

needs to be fixed. >> Yeah. M. >> So yeah, you you're telling me what I thought you would tell me and what I've >> kind of I guess in my heart felt anyway.

So >> yeah. Well, you guys are doing some good things. We moved backwards by taking on all this debt. And so if you didn't have this debt, you could maybe stomach all this, but right now we got a mess to clean up. We need some savings in the bank. That's how you step into home ownership from a place of strength. It reminds me of a saying. This is an Arabic saying that I heard my mom say.

>> How's it go?

which translates to the camel costs 1 cent and I don't have 1 cent which means I don't care how good of a deal it but Jade it's a great deal it's a once in a-lifetime opportunity and we don't have the money to make this make sense >> I just love that it's a camel it's the perfect saying >> I know my last name is camel that's just how the old Arabic saying goes a lot of camels in the Middle East

>> yes I love it that's great >> sorry you ain't got a penny You can't buy it. I don't care if [laughter] it's borderline free. You can't afford it.

That's a hard lesson to learn. >> That is a hard lesson. >> But those Middle Eastern folk, >> they know what they're talking about. >> They're frugal.

[music]

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/start.

Answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

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[music]

Thanks for hanging out with us. The scripture and quote of the day 1 Corinthians 9:24. Do you not know that in a race all runners run but only one

gets [music] the prize? Run in such a way to get the prize. Amelia Heheart said, "Decide whether or not the goal is worth the risks involved. If it is, stop

worrying, man." >> Oh boy, that's a that's a dark quote from Amelia. >> Oh, I I felt like it was on point cuz I'm thinking about the baby steps. I'm like, when we tell people the baby steps, the number one thing they're trying to assess is, is it going to be worth it? Like, is it going to be worth my sacrifice, my time, my effort, my struggle?

And if you've already decided that it is going to be worth it, just stop worrying. Just stop. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels. But I guess >> Amelia Airheart, I mean, you know, >> she's willing to fall out the sky.

[laughter] >> Really? >> Wow. All right. John in Las Vegas, Nevada. get us back on track, John.

What's going on?

>> Hi. Uh my uh my daughter is in her

sophomore year of college and uh a

couple years back we made a a deal that if she did well in school, we'd we'd pay for uh her housing expenses and ability to go to college if she got a scholarship. Uh she came throwing her in and we've been doing that. However, she keeps making decisions that kind of go against what we're advising her to do.

And my question is I I feel like I'm we might be hurting her more than we're helping her by trying to send her to college and not holding her to to an

accountability standpoint of being, you know, growing up. >> What types of things are is she doing that's um >> not what you want.

So, a while back I I made it well known like tattoos were were not a thing that uh that we approved and and it was one of those deals where we said, "Listen, you know, if you want to get a tattoo, that's on you, but um not while you know, we're paying for your things cuz then I feel like I'm subsidizing it." And so, um you know, she she's come home with numerous tattoos and and then uh I

the last one she came home with, she called me ahead of time knowing that I'd be upset about it. Uh but when uh and I

was glad that she was honest with me. However, she knows that we don't approve of that right now at her age.

>> How old is she? >> The fact that you know uh she's uh just about to turn 20.

>> So, you know, I I it's her body. She can do whatever she wants. tell her. I I just don't feel comfortable with her getting tattoos at that young of an age,

>> you know, where that's kind of a permanent thing for a young >> You said you said two opposing things in

one sentence. You said it's her body, she can do whatever she wants, and then you turned around and said, "But actually, she can't." >> Um, so I think you have to figure out

which one of it it is at for her age.

And then the other question I have just practically is she using the money that you're giving her for tattoos?

>> Well, so that's the part. So we we pay for her uh her housing and then we also pay for her tuition. >> Okay. >> And uh so she she made a decision to do

a trip last year and uh and didn't uh

plan for it correctly and she wound up spending like she needed help on that trip. So part of that is we lowered her her monthly expenses that she gets and so she's covering that for her job and then um you know she uh she that and

we're basically letting that be the payment. So we're pay giving her less for housing and she covers the difference. >> Is it an apartment or a campus housing?

>> It's a it's an apartment/housing uh campus housing. It's kind of a blend.

Uh, so it was like $1,000 a month and and now we downed it down to 800 so she can pay back over a year the amount of money that we gave her to to um to [clears throat] live while she was doing her her trip uh to Italy.

>> And so, you know, we're proud of her cuz she paid for the trip for Italy.

>> However, you know, one of the the deals with doing that was listen, we're not paying we're not financing that.

>> How much over how much over did she go on that trip to Italy? Like how much did you need to bail her out?

>> Three grand. >> Yeah, that's a lot. Um >> yeah, and we were on top of it, we were on a trip in Europe, so we spent a whole bunch of money for our, you know, our trip that we were super excited about doing for us and then we're having to come out of pocket. So like, you know, it kind of put us in a bad position.

>> How are you guys covering her tuition and housing? Is this from a college savings account or just cash flow or or normal savings? >> No, that that would have been that would have been a lot smarter when I was younger, but you know, we're we're doing very well. Well, financially between my wife and I, we make about 220,000 a year. >> Awesome. So, you just How clear was it that tattoos equals we're cutting you off? Or was this just a separate preference? Like, hey, I don't want you getting tattoos.

>> It was separate. But when she got in the argument with me about it, I said, listen, we're we're paying for you to go to school, and all that is money that

you're not having to spend to go to school, right? So, we're we're trying to set her up as much as possible. And and my view on it is I I don't believe in making permanent, you know, markings on your body until you're until you're

fiscally responsible for yourself. And then if you want to do that, you can do that. But also maybe be a little bit older so you can make wise choices instead of a, you know, 19, 20 year old, you know, putting things in their body that don't necessarily >> This is a 20-year-old decision. And, you know, it is a preference.

There's no moral failure here. I personally, if I'm dad, I get you being upset. I get the disrespect, but I would not cut off her college funding. If you want to tie it to something, I would tie it to grades, attendance, legal behavior, you got to finish in four years, all of that.

But this is just a separate issue, and now we're trying to hold weaponize her college funding to get her to stop. What you can say is, hey, any future tattoos needs to come out of your money from your job. We're going to send this money directly to the landlord, directly to the school.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, and and we haven't been doing that. So, we we've been purposely having her pay everything out of her account. We fund it and then she makes the payments to those things. However, like I said, she she just quit her job >> without having another one lined up and she doesn't seem to be in a hurry to get another job and she's having her boyfriend pay for everything. And we're just we're just going like, "Hey, that's not a wise that's not wise decision-m.

You don't you don't do things like that without having other things lined up, you know?" And >> Yeah. So, we're we're just concerned that she's not she's not making uh we

the whole thing we're doing is trying to develop her to learn how to handle money and make good decisions and we feel like

often we're really bankrolling her bad decisions and that's what we're worried about. >> I kind of hear two things at play and I'm going to caveat this John by saying my kid I almost wish Dave was on cuz my kids are young. They're five and seven.

I've not been in your shoes. So, I'm literally just listening and what I'm doing is thinking back to when I was in college. So, that's where this is based from. Just so you know, I'm kind of hearing two things go on.

I'm kind of hearing a uh [sighs] a a concern about how she's handling her money, but I'm also kind of hearing a a power struggle of she's getting older. She's making choices. You don't agree with them, which you have the right to not agree with them, but there's also this part of she's just going to make choices. And some of them you're just going to have to let her make, I think.

Um, let's deal with the money part.

inclined to say, you know what, you had the luxury of having this kind of off-campus hybrid. I think that we're not going to do that because you haven't been able to kind of hold up your end of the bargain. So, you can do the normal campus housing and if you get a job, we're open to you doing the hybrid thing where you have the apartment, but you'll have to pay for it. You could totally do that.

Plenty of kids go to school and they live in onampus housing and they don't get the the fluff. You know what I'm saying? So, you could totally do that. I would probably distance it from this whole tattoo thing so it did not seem like a retaliatory response to the tattoos cuz I actually do think that that's very separate.

But if you do feel like, hey, we're bankrolling her to the extent to which she's not doing a part-time job or some of the things that we talked about her doing from the beginning, I think that that's a fair thing. Now, the other side of it, let's talk about kind of like the tattoos, personal choices with the boyfriend.

I'll be honest, I think it could be one.

I don't know. This is just me speaking from being a a an 18-year-old girl with a dad who was trying to help me with I

feel like if you get too smothering, it could almost have the opposite effect.

>> So I >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Do you know what I mean? So it's almost >> you probably experienced that already. It's like the more you lean in, the more she leans away and now she wants to rebel as as a because she doesn't know how to even handle that and it feels like you're controlling her.

She's a grown woman now. And so th they are two separate issues. And if you want to not feel like you're enabling, you can fund the direct thing you're trying to fund and no more. And now it's on her.

>> And when she needs to get a job cuz she can't buy the thing she wants to buy, she might go into debt. And you hate that cuz like we said, you're not going to go into debt. But at the end of the day, putting her in crippling student loan debt and having her hate you forever, I don't think is the right next [music] step. >> Best of luck, man. That's a tough one.

>> It is a tough one. Hey, thanks for hanging out with us on the Ramsey Show.

If you're wondering where you are on the baby steps, make sure to go to ramseyolutions.com to find out. And as always, there's only one way to ultimate financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 25. Comfort Is The Enemy Of Progress - Attack Your Debt Now! | January 12, 2026


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:50:03 |

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. [music] So, we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm George Kamel joined by [music] author

Jade Warshaw. We are so excited that you're tuning in today. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

>> [music] >> Annie is going to kick us off in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Annie?

Hey, how's it going? Great. How can we help? All right. Yes, sir. Um I've been

uh I have a dilemma. There's a I had an ex-boyfriend years about 5-6 years ago

and we got motorcycles. I sold mine, but we co-signed for each other.

That's true love.

Yeah, right.

But anyway, uh he hasn't made a payment.

I don't care about my credit, but they keep calling and they're like, "It's a binding contract." So, my question is, what do I do? I I haven't seen the bike in over 4 or 5 years. I don't know if he's alive or dead and they've came to my house and

checked, you know, it ain't there. They went to come repo it and then it wasn't there. Yes. Yeah. [clears throat] Okay, here's here's the bad news, Annie. It doesn't matter where that motorcycle is and it doesn't matter if he's dead dead or alive, you owe that debt. That's that

is exactly what co-signing is. It's you taking on that debt cuz they don't trust him to pay and I think they were wise.

How much is it? Okay.

It's like about $10,000.

>> Yikes. And what about your bike? Have you since paid yours off or what happened to the one that that that you guys co-signed together that you that you drove?

Oh, I sold mine. So, yours has been gone. Where are you at financially? Do you have any other debts? Do you have money in savings?

No, I don't have any money in savings.

Uh I've been retired for a year and I'm trying to go back to work right now. So, I'm barely making my bills and I

can't afford to make that. Where's your income coming from? Uh retirement. Like a 401k, social security?

No, I work I work for uh TVC.

So, you have like a pension?

Uh yes, sir. Evidently, yes. It's a

Yeah. So, what is your monthly income as it stands without you going to work?

Uh like 1,600. And what do your monthly bills add up to?

Um >> [snorts] >> More than 1,600?

Yes. Okay. So, are you floating the gap with credit cards?

No, actually I'm married. So, uh

yeah, I got married. So, that's how we do it together. Okay, what's he make every single month?

Uh probably about

17, 18, about 3,000. Okay. And I don't

know. I'm guessing based on the way you're talking, but are you guys combined money or are you separate?

Uh I take care of the bills and he just puts money in my account. So, I take care of all the bills and then he takes care of like his truck and stuff.

>> So, you're you're separate for all intents and purposes. It doesn't sound like >> Does he have savings?

No. Okay.

Well, the best way to do this would be combining your money together to go, "Okay, how are we going to make a plan to pay this old debt off?" Mhm. Now, I don't know if he's willing to do that and it sounds like he doesn't have the ability cuz he's broke, too.

And he's got a truck payment of his own?

No, his truck is paid off, but uh we're trying to uh get him another truck. So, I'm trying to go back to work cuz

his truck is actually broke down and we're trying to fix it.

So, you're trying to pay for the repair or you about to go buy a brand new truck with payments?

Uh Cuz you don't have any money.

Right, right. Well, that's why I need to go to work is so that way we'll have more money on top of that, but his truck is old and he's Well, he's trying to fix it. So, I know that's what our goal is to fix it. >> Well, I I think work is the a great place to go right now to make more money to get us out of all of this. And the motorcycle is old motorcycle debt.

That's just part of the the bigger picture that we need to clean up. What other debts do you have?

Um I have a couple of credit cards. Um

my debt's probably about

10,000.

Well, you got 10,000 just on the motorcycle.

No, no. Yeah, but I'm talking about Yes, I guess I guess 20 about 20,000. Okay. So, here's what I hear. Um and here's a couple of I just want to bullet point this so that you have clear homework for tonight. First things first is tonight

it's it's Friday night here. I know some of you might listen not listen to this till Monday, but I want you to go out

either on a date or tell your tell your husband, "Tonight is date night at the house." And over dinner, I want you to say, "I've really been thinking and I don't feel peace about our finances. I feel stressed. I feel like we're disconnected and I would really love for us to get

aligned financially." I would love to be in a situation where what's yours is mine is and mine is yours and that we really are a unit on this. And I want you to to open up the lines of communication on that.

Tonight's not the night to to create a plan to pay off debt. Tonight is not the night to say it's time to sell a vehicle. Tonight is just the night to say, "Here's Here's what I'm afraid of.

Here's what I've been feeling and here's I would just like to have this intimacy with you where we're one-on-one with our with our money, right?" For you in your own time until the next meeting that you're going to have with your husband, I want you to start writing down debt. Here's all the debt. Here's all my money. And then the next meeting with him, I want you to go with him and say, "I started writing things down.

Here's what I started writing down." Slide it over there and say, "Is there anything you want to add to this list cuz I'm just trying to get my head around this, right?" And and keep that conversation going. That's thing one and

thing two and then you guys can start to

get your head around this. Uh we're going to give you EveryDollar before you get off the phone because the truth is George and I can only talk to you for so long and you're going to need something and someone to walk with you and EveryDollar is going to do that. It'll be like you have George in your pocket.

And so, that's the key to this.

EveryDollar is going to ask questions about you. You're going to answer it and then it's going to tell you the next right step. Uh and in this case, George was right. Money coming in, so income coming in, you getting another job, that's going to be so key.

But then, after you've done the budget, you're going to realize are there some things that we can cut out? Uh what percentage of our take-home pay is is our our our rent or our mortgage, right? You're going to see things that might need to shift. And all that needs to be done together with your spouse.

And I personally call us back. Like call us back and tell us how it goes because there's several steps to this. I would never want you to think it was a light switch that was supposed to happen in one conversation or in one phone call uh to our show. So, keep walking down the road.

Don't get discouraged.

So, so what's the answer even though I don't know where the bike is? I haven't seen it in 5 years. >> You got to stack up the money. You have to at this point assume it as your debt.

Forget he ever even existed because your name is on it and legally, that's all they see. If they can't find him, your name is on it and you will feel it. It will if if it doesn't get paid, your credit's going to get destroyed. It's going to keep you from doing the things you want to do. So, add it to the list of debts. The best thing that you can do in this situation mentally and emotionally is say, "You know what?

This is a mistake I made. This was the part I played." Forget all about him cuz he's somewhere eating a sandwich. He is not thinking about you. And he clearly doesn't care about, you know, clearly doesn't care about his finances. So, you pay it. Don't spend another ounce of energy thinking about him because it's just wasted mental calories and emotional calories. And because the debt is, you know, 6 years old, they might be willing to settle. If you can scratch up $3,000 and call them say, "Hey, listen.

I don't know where this guy is. I don't know where the bike is. He's an ex. I'll give you three grand if you can call this debt paid in full >> [music] >> and clear it from your credit and move on with your life emotionally and financially." >> [music] >> We're rooting for you, Annie. Hang on the line. We're going to get you hooked up with EveryDollar.

>> [music]

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Visit zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282.

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. If you missed it, we had an awesome live stream that happened last [music] night depending on when you're hearing this. You can go check it out and watch the replay ramseysolutions.com/livestream or just head to our YouTube channels.

Jade and Dave just held court on stage

and it was a wonderful time. So, be sure to check that out if you're looking to kick 2026 off with a bang. Laura is in

Salt Lake City. What's going on, Laura?

Hi. [clears throat] Um I'm just trying to figure out where I go from here. My my husband and I my husband's a contractor and I'm a stay-at-home mom and we've owned our own business for 12 years. And in the last 3 years he's been partnering with his brother and just splitting profits 50/50.

And I was okay with that until this recent year we've got a job that's taking over a year and I do all the paperwork. So, I do I run the business side of it.

And so, I asked for this job if I could get like 5-10% for me cuz I felt like

it's a lot more cuz I've got workers comp and employees and subcontractors now with this year-long job.

And he said, "No. He doesn't feel comfortable doing that because um this is where I got a little upset.

He said, "I'm a a wife that helps out

Mhm. >> and doing a little bit of paperwork doesn't mean I get a cut of the business." Mhm. Like the full business as a whole or you just trying to make are you trying to get him to pull more salary like payroll for you? >> this No, I mean this job.

Like we own our own business. It's a small business and we've been we've been fine and I technically own 49% of business. That's what it is on the paperwork. >> Yeah, yeah.

Well, you are an owner. >> we're arguing about splitting 50/50 with his brother for this big job.

He said, "No, we can't do that. You're just helping you're my wife and you're helping me out so I don't have to do the paperwork and I can spend more time with the family." Mhm. And so, and I just for the last

12 years I thought I was a business partner and so I just I think this is I think this is more about I think this is more about the disappointment of how he views you versus like a money or like a business thing. At least that's what I'm hearing.

You feel disrespected, belittled like your work doesn't really matter.

That's what the heart is. >> that though. Like I do when it's a $23,000 job and it's a few

receipts and some hourly work, it's not a big deal to split it 50/50. But I mean this profit's going to be about $200,000. >> So, you want a cut of the profits? I want a I want a piece of profit because it's a lot more work for me to do a $200,000 or well, this one's $200,000.

>> the question. Yeah, do you receive a salary? Have you ever received a salary?

No, it's not a salary. It's our business. We're partners. So, the question is the question is on a job like that I hear what you're saying. What you're saying is more emotional. I'm talking about on paper at this point. If they're 50/50 are are your brother

your brother the the the brother and your husband is that 50/50 on paper or

is it No, he's he's the own contractor and he's his own business.

And so, they just have a deal that they when they do jobs together, they split the profit 50/50. Okay. So, my my thing is this. So, you're saying in essence the profit should be split in thirds and >> I I don't think thirds cuz I'm I'm not doing a third of the work.

>> Do you just want 10%? >> isn't that much. I asked for 5 to 10%.

So then the other question is this. Let's let's just look at it as it is.

Just take emotion out of it for a minute. Okay.

The brother even though they're working on this and they're separate businesses, does the brother have somebody who does the paperwork for him on his side of the business and has all that and then what you know, he takes that Do you see what I'm saying? Yes. Both businesses are probably set up similarly. So, the other side of this conversation would have been for you to say, "Husband, if we're doing more work on this, shouldn't we be taking more of the profit?

Should should this be a 60/40 split with your brother?" Or Do you see what I'm saying? But Because at the end of the day >> a wife helping out." Okay, but >> those words exactly? "You're just a wife." I'm I'm trying to go after like >> he said that.

>> I just want to know if he was on the phone. I feel like he would be like, "No, no, here's what I said." Because what what I'm getting at is if the money's going into you guys' pot, it's both of your money and that's a whole other conversation if you guys don't view it that way. But it's both of your money. What I'm saying is although what he said sounds disrespectful, I wasn't there but it sounds disrespectful.

There's two different conversations here. There's what's fair financially for you not you and him separately but the business and then there's the conversation of how we treat each other with respect within our marriage. Does that make sense? >> Yeah.

then that's that deal. Now, then there's a conversation of, "Well, honey, there's two of us on the payroll. It would benefit both of us possibly if you received a salary or if I and if I received a salary." Now, if you're trying to split hairs and the salary

would remain the same and you guys would just have your names on it differently, I do think that's splitting hairs.

Are you following what I'm saying?

Uh I think so. So, it's like mhm. So, my

husband and I own a business together and this is true. If the if if Sam is profiting if he takes $200,000 as profit on the business, right? Let's say I'm staying home with the kids. That's our money.

It's our profit. Now, if I'm helping him out and I say, "Oh, the $200,000, it feels weird that zero of that is like written in my name. I'd like for you to write 50 of it in my name so you make 150 and I make 50." That's me splitting hairs cuz the 200 is going into our account anyway. Now, if I said, "Sam, I've been thinking, you know, you're working and I'm working.

If there's room, I probably should take a salary, too.

It's good for the business if we're making more and we can profit more into our pocket. So, for the work I'm doing maybe you can pay me, you know, $30,000 a year on top of your $200,000." That's a conversation to have based on the work. Yeah. >> And it doesn't have anything to do with the other vendors. Yeah. It was um the

he asked it's like, "Well, what if we do hourly?" But the problem is it's a random phone call here and there.

Or it's um "Hey, can you pick up this

uh these supplies? Can you go grab the trailer? Can you go grab the cement?" So, it's just random thing. It's not a clock in clock out Mhm. thing I do. I

just I'm always on call doing it. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> So, it just sounds like there needs [laughter] to be a set amount.

>> It sounds like there needs to be you guys need to figure out what that split is and it I I it sounds like it needs to be some sort of a set amount, some sort of a a commission that you get for the work that you do that's set and then there's a list of responsibilities that go along with the money that you earn in a month. So, that could be anything from this this this that. That instead of a percentage cuz I asked for a percentage and that's where he choked. I I think percentage is confusing because again, they're viewing it as entity versus entity.

Your guys' business with the brother's business. You're not an entity. You're part of part of your business entity. So, I think that's what caused the confusion.

But if you're just like, "Hey, put me on the payroll. Let's figure out what that means." That's one conversation. I think that's great if you can afford it.

Right? When you stayed home, it wasn't the same as it was before.

Yeah. But we never had a conversation about what this looks like now and he views you as, "Well, she works with the on the business but she's not pulling the weight that me and my brother are, right?" >> Yeah. And that's that's where he said it. He said that as well.

And we just never acknowledge that when you stayed at home because you guys, you know, are married and live together, it's easy to let those things slide and I think we should have had a conversation going, "Hey, I know that this has been our business. It's going to shift now. My brother's going to be stepping in to shoulder some of the weight of this and you will be more of an employee in the business and here's how that's going to be laid out financially." I think it's just we need to reset. >> we never had.

Exactly.

part-time hourly wage and you keep track of how much time you spent on the business and that's what you're paid. I don't know what that looks like for you guys. You also need to find out the other truth of that is uh if you weren't

there to do the job would he absorb those responsibilities or would he have to hire out? And that's a really good way to determine And what would he have to pay for that person? >> Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. >> Cuz if you don't want to do it anymore cuz you're fed up with it, then just say, "I'm not doing it." Doesn't change how much you get paid.

Mhm. I thought about that but it just it would hurt the business more. >> Exactly. It's sticking it to the man. You're you're sort of you know, you're you're hurting yourself in that regard. Mhm. Yeah. Cuz if it's truly y'alls money and it goes into the same bank account and you're married filing jointly, then you're really just hurting yourself to make a point. And I I I would rather you avoid that.

>> I can't do that cuz then it would just Yeah. Yeah. Then a hard conversation is your next step, Laura. I wish you the best.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> Michelle is in Vegas up next. What's going on, Michelle?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. I have a question [music] with regards to Cobra.

So we've currently been on Cobra for about a year. We're going to be transitioning off in the next 3 to 6 months. I should have done this sooner, but I didn't. Um I'm looking at these alternative health sharing plans and just kind of curious what your thought is on those. When I compare what I'm paying for Cobra versus what a med share or health sharing plan would be. What are you paying for Cobra right now?

>> difference. Uh seven it's going from 1,600 to 1,700

and that's a family of four. Okay. And what's >> Plus my my son went away to college and I've got to pay for separate insurance for him because my plan doesn't cover him in Colorado. Mhm.

Okay. And neither of you have insurance provided through your employer?

Correct. Okay. And that's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future?

I think so. What do you guys make a month?

A month? Um eight. Okay. This is a big chunk of

your your world paying for this health insurance.

Right. Mhm.

Well, there's a there's a few options. One is the health sharing types and we have a great partnership with Christian Healthcare Ministries. That's one option you can look at that could make sense for you guys depending on your situation. Another is just shopping the marketplace and we have another partner, HealthTrust Financial, that's fantastic for that.

They can help you save and see you might find out, hey, it's actually not much more or it's less than we're paying right now depending on your situation. >> Right. Why what would keep you from just shopping the marketplace? Because the the truth is if you pick one of those plans, it's going to be regulated.

If for some reason a claim is denied, you can you can fight it and there's somebody in your corner and there's regulations around it versus some of the others that don't have those protections. Like I I'm trying to understand what your values are around this. Is it the faith-based thing?

A little bit of everything. I'm looking at it where I've been paying, you know, $20,000 a year for insurance plus another 3,000 when my son went away to school. And I know with some of these health sharing plans, it's going to be, you know, $500 a month plus a $12,000 deductible. But I'm looking at it where I'm like, why am I spending $20,000 a year on insurance that's okay, you know,

you know, it's not great, it's okay. You still got co-pays and things like that.

One of my sons just had a diagnosis where they don't cover the pills that they want him to take and >> [clears throat] >> that's going to be out of if, you know, if I don't go through the drug company, that's going to be out of pocket $6,000.

So I'm just I'm I think I'm frustrated and I'm just thinking, what are the alternatives?

Yeah, I I I do think so if you're considering this, one of the things that I would say could be a con to a health share is if you do have a chronic illness. Pre-existing condition.

>> condition. Health shares are good for you're healthy, you rarely go, um you you know, you agree with the whatever status it is that that is faith-based of the community or whatever it is. Um and yeah, if to get the the

lower payment, that's helpful. But in your case, I'm wondering because there is a pre-existing condition, there is >> imminent health care needs.

So I might shop HealthTrust Financial and just see what they can find you in the marketplace. And then if you're, hey, I I need another option, I would look into Christian Healthcare Ministries as an alternative. Yeah, because in your case in your case, if I put a claim through, I want to know that it's going to be covered. And I want to know that I can hold them to a standard in order to to as close of a standard as as we can.

And I already know they're not going to pay for this drug. Mhm.

Like my health insurance is not going to pay for this drug. So I can go through Pfizer and they'll give me a 2-year kind of cover. As it is you're talking about as it is on on your Cobra coverage?

Mhm. Well, but that could change if you shop the market and find the right plan for you. And is there do you think it would be best if you guys found an employer like one of you has a health insurance plan?

Would that be more beneficial? >> Possibly. Mhm. Possibly. I mean, we don't really have any other bills.

Like that's Our house is paid for. We have investments and all that. So that's So you're in a good place financially, but you're just sick of paying this astronomical rate. >> Yeah, it's Yeah.

>> It's kind of disgusting. It's it that's actually a trend right now. If you follow social media, it really is a big trend that people are tired of paying premiums and a lot of people are going to wild business like not having insurance coverage at all. And the truth is, George, you know this, bankruptcy one of the one of the biggest causes of bankruptcy is medical debt.

And so it's not something that you want to, you know, play around with.

And the truth is no one likes paying a bill. No one likes paying paying a premium. It it feels it feels thankless, it feels like money going down a black hole. But when it when it it comes time that you need that coverage, you're like, oh, thank god I have it.

It's a safety net. That's the it's a transfer of risk. That's all insurance is and right now it stinks to pay 20 grand a year, but it would stink a whole lot more to have a $500,000 bill. Mhm.

And it doesn't take much. So I would not go without coverage for a single day, but I would start researching like my life depended on it through those options that I just gave you. Those are places I would start personally.

Okay. I appreciate it. >> Best of luck, Michelle. The health care system is broken. I think that is a bipartisan, non-partisan take. It just sucks. >> it does. Oh man, let's go out to Danny in Wichita. What's going on, Danny?

Danny, you with us?

Yeah, hello. Hey, what's going on?

How you doing? Great. How can we help?

Well, um calling I'm 50 years old. Uh

recently had a heart attack. Ooh. Um I'm

about $50,000 in debt.

Um I've got about $18,000 or so in a

uh old 401k plan from an employer.

Um I I don't have any savings at the moment. Um just I I make decent money.

Um How much do you make?

>> is I know the that I I make about $6,000 a month at

minimum. That kind of that fluctuates um

to, you know, to about between 6,7500. I

drive a truck. Is it just you?

>> Um It's just well, I have a 17-year-old son at home. Okay. So it's just him and I. Um about $11,000 of that debt is because

I yeah, I was in fear mode after this happened and I knew I needed to cut start cutting expenses cuz I was going to have medical bills coming in. I do I do have insurance, but still um

so I got out of my apartment lease and found uh a cheaper place to live. I was paying 1,300. I went down to $850 a month for uh rent. Okay.

>> Um that also allowed me to get rid of the storage facility that I was paying 140 a month on $140 a month on. Okay. Um

What's your question today? Just so we make sure we can help you.

Yeah, my question is I know the baby steps and all you know, the debt snowball, the saving a thousand.

Um during the heart attack, they found that I have aortic aneurysm and a bicuspid heart valve which is going to require surgery at some point. They don't know. It it could be 3 months, could be 3 years. They just they don't know.

It's it's it's imminent though. Um my question is knowing that, um should I start stacking money and get to a certain point and then get onto the debt snowball and because obviously there's going to be some recovery time with that and not knowing exactly when that point for the surgery is going to come. >> Yeah.

You've you've had a catastrophic event with this heart attack and you've got some things coming up on the burner. And if I were your in your shoes, I'd do two things. I would I would call up my insurance and I would let I would have a conversation about the things that are going getting ready to happen, what will be covered, I would want to know very clearly what's my out-of-pocket max for the year, what's my deductible. Uh and that's that is the

amount of money that I would aim to save up because you know this like you know the rate is going to fall.

>> Uh my out-of-pocket uh individually is 9,200. The deductible is 3,000 and that

that's individual total is twice that, so 84 18,400

family which and then So 9,200 for you.

I'd save up $10,000 and then the next number you need to know is you need to find out what's the recovery time. So how much time am I going to miss from work? What's that equal up to? And that's your emergency fund that you want to save up. So [music] calculate if if it's going to be a 3-month recovery, calculate what that's going to be and save up that cash.

Um and that's the best thing you can do. Knowledge is going to be power in this situation, my friend. And once you've got all that taken care of, you can push play on the steps and man we're we're hoping that the surgery goes well and that you recover swiftly, my friend.

Thanks for the call.

>> [music]

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Yeah. >> Love it. All right, Jerry is in West Palm Beach up next. What's going on, Jerry?

Hey, how are you guys doing? Good.

What's going on with you?

Doing good. I was just calling because uh my question is that my wife and I we potentially can be out of debt by the end of this year, but she currently wants to move to a new apartment because of an ongoing roach issue. >> Oh. Um and the the money that we would use to pay off debt would be used to purchase a new apartment. So I was calling to see if we should use that money to buy the apartment or to Ooh, do you own the apartment you're in?

Uh no, we're currently renting. But that would break the lease?

Uh well, the lease is a month-to-month until November 31st. So we would use all the money that we would use to pay the debt off this year would have to be saved the entire year in order to pay for first last and security uh till the end of the year. >> On a new apartment. So you're not buying an apartment, just you're renting a different one. Yeah. Yeah, we're just renting. We're on baby step two. What is that number for a first last and security?

Well, we're not sure yet. Um here in Florida we estimate that for a two-one it'll probably be around 2,100 2,200 a month. And and so that's the first thing is finding out exactly what the numbers are to find out how it's going to affect your debt-free uh journey and and getting real numbers around that versus um guestimates. Ah,

I'm going to say something here that um I I can't do roaches.

Yeah, I think that's a reasonable thing to be like I don't want to live with a roach infestation. My big question is why is the apartment not doing anything about it?

Well, we have a pest control company that we use, but um the efforts that they've been putting in haven't been working that well. >> need like Ghostbusters in there.

>> in the entire apartment complex?

Somebody coming to your thing spraying the little twick not just >> Terminator, Ghostbusters, a Catholic priest waving something. I mean, I want everybody up in there. >> where they cover the whole building with fabric. >> Exorcist, get what you have to get up in there to get the roaches out. And if they don't handle it, I think you have the right to fight them to get out of this lease without without, you know, paying any fees.

Well, the the lease actually says that we're in charge of the pest control. So you pay for pest control?

Yeah, we pay for pest control. >> the problem. Do you see what I'm saying?

If you're just uh your pest control what you pay for is just going for your unit, but if the whole building has an infestation problem, you can spray till the cows come home in all your corners, but they're going to keep coming down from the guy upstairs who, you know, where it all started. So that that yeah, I'd be up and out of there. I'd sit with your wife and figure out what's it going to cost. Sometimes, you know, the baby steps yours, you know this, sometimes it feels like two steps forward, a little step back, two steps forward, a little step back, and it's just like that, but in this case roaches Yeah.

>> And the five grand, you're sort of just like prepaying, you know, the first month, last month, the deposit hopefully you get back. And so there's a little bit of the sunk cost up front, uh but I think it's well worth it. >> Mhm. And I would just try to make up for lost time once you guys are in that new apartment, let's work twice as hard to get out of debt by the end of the year regardless.

Oh, I agree. That's good advice. I appreciate it. >> Mhm. I'd be getting I would also Here's Here's how much of a nerd I am. I would be uploading the lease agreement to chat GPT to then act like my lawyer to tell me how to get out of this thing and see what they are responsible for. And so maybe that'll help, Jerry. I don't know, but man, that's not a fun problem to deal with and I'm with your wife on this one. I have threatened to move before.

Did that work? No, um I think Sam knows cuz I've threatened to move over many things, [laughter] but hey, when we live in South Florida, we have what's called palmetto bugs, which is really just called a giant roach that can fly. Oh, I hate those.

And these people in the audience are like, "Girl, I know what you're A palmetto bug can be like the size of the palm of they're big and they they you can't get around it. Like you could spray all day, but they like water. So if you're by the glades or if you're by if you have pipes in your house, they can come in your house. So basically everywhere we've ever lived, I've threatened to move. Ew.

All right, you just convinced me to never move to Florida. Thank you today.

It's a reason not to. >> Declan is in Pittsburgh. What's going on, Declan?

Hey guys, thanks [clears throat] so much for taking my call. Sure.

What's going on? Um trying to decide if it makes the most sense to move out to California to live

with my wife's grandmother and her special needs uncle help take care of them and save some money in the process and knock out some more debt. Wow.

>> Is your wife going with you?

Oh, yeah. Okay. I was like is this a solo adventure for Declan? Okay, so [laughter] you're considering moving from Pittsburgh all the way across the country to California to save some money. How can you save money moving to California? Help me understand that part. Exactly. It's kind of the Goldilocks situation. So um my wife's grandmother has a really nice house that we'd be able to have our own section of the house. It's a large house. How large? Um

like five five bedrooms, three full

baths. Um so we'd have two bedrooms and a whole living room to ourselves with the kids.

Oh, you got kids? >> kids?

Two kids, two and three month old. Two year old and three month old. What about the jobs? Help me understand the job situation.

So I work full-time. I'm a fully remote.

Um I make 80K a year and my wife is

currently staying home. 80? 80,000?

Okay. And then you're you're going to have additional jobs on top of this to take care of >> Yes, so so my my wife would be able to be the full-time caretaker for my uncle or for her uncle um who's special needs and he

just he's a great, he just needs help, you know, with making food and like little things like that. Mhm. So we're it's be easy for her to stay home and take care of him as well. So it's kind of a a perfect situation there. Does grandma or the uncle have any income to speak of?

Yes. Okay. Um I know grandma has

Grandma's doing great and she has rental income that from other properties that yeah, she's she's doing just fine. What about uncle?

I know he's he's fully disabled so he doesn't work. Does Grandma pay for uncle's needs?

Yes, fully. Okay.

Instead of a caretaker that they'd hire,

they would just say yeah, let's have family do it and they can live for free and that's the trade-off?

Exactly, yes. >> I don't know about this.

>> Yeah, go ahead. Um >> [snorts] >> was this something that was the request made or was this something that you guys had a hankering to do? Like you know what?

>> No, the request the request was made.

Everyone like we would love to go spend more time with their family in California but they are looking for someone because their current caretaker is leaving and Uncle Danny is he's kind of someone who

needs someone who he knows and is comfortable with and so they asked if anyone in the family no one else wanted to do it except we said we would.

Okay, so you want you want to do this.

Yeah, yeah, I think it'd be I think it'd be great to have some extra income spend spend a while in California with some family and Help me understand the extra income. So so help me so right now you're making $80,000 a month. What's your what do you pay on rent and housing right now?

We have mortgage we on us it's about a

month. So 1200 a month for is that just the mortgage? Tell me living expenses lighting all that stuff utilities.

Um I've worked looking at

Basically at the end of the month we're breaking even. We're we're paying our minimums on debt but we're not getting ahead. >> debt do you have?

We have 45,000 in student loans. That's it?

Yep, that's it. >> And you're breaking even.

Yeah. >> Yeah, so something needs to change. I don't know if the move is the next step.

I personally wouldn't do it to try to save money. If you just want to do it for the adventure of it and you think you can make it work, go for it. I don't think you're going to pay off debt much faster because of California's taxes.

Yeah, you're >> factored that in? We It's actually funny I I did a lot of research into the taxes and my bracket we would be saving because we have a huge local income tax here 2% local income tax that we would not be paying. >> Would you sell your house?

If we sold our house, yeah. You would sell your house and what would you make on that?

Probably 20,000 in equity.

20 grand in equity. Well, then you got fees, you got moving costs with a 2-year-old and a 3-month-old dude. I got kids your age. I wouldn't do any of this. >> do this either. I I just wouldn't. I would pass for now and I would try to make more money and cut expenses but this feels like a Hail Mary. >> Mhm. I wish you the best with the decision Declan, it's a big one.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm [music] George Kamel joined by best-selling author Jade Warshaw. Her latest book What No One Tells You About Money launched this week and we have it feels like birthday month. We're just celebrating all week all month long.

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Brian is in Bismarck, North Dakota.

What's going on Brian?

Good afternoon. How are you guys? Great.

How can we help?

Hey, so my wife and I were just wondering if we are crazy for wanting to pay off our our house before we have kids.

Is it crazy? I mean I wouldn't call you crazy. Wouldn't put you in the loony bin for it but I also wouldn't recommend it.

Well, yeah, what's the timeline on this and how old are you?

So my wife and I are both 22 years old and we're hoping to pay off our mortgage in about 20 to 24 months. Yeah, I mean

if it lines up with your timeline who cares? That's totally personal. And can I tell you the honest truth? It could take you 24 months to get pregnant. So I wouldn't just wait to start trying until then. Unless that was part of your plan all along and you're like hey, we want to be married for a while before we have kids.

I mean what what it's a values conversation. So is this is this a sacrifice in you guys's eyes

or are you just concerned with how other people are viewing it?

Um it is sort of a sacrifice. We

we're holding off on like going on trips and upgrading on cars in order to do this. >> Mhm. Um but part of it is also we want to make sure that my wife can be a stay-at-home mom without me having to worry >> [clears throat] >> and on top of that I would like to switch jobs to something a little bit more controllable with the schedule. Mhm. Um

and that would cause me to take a step back in pay.

Yeah, I mean that like I said it's a totally values. My husband and I when we were first married we figured out that we had a bunch of debt and the timeline on ours was we knew it was a long horizon for us. It ended up taking 7 and 1/2 years to pay it off. The whole timeline in total was closer to 9 years to be honest and our choice was to wait.

I would never put that on anybody else because ours was very extreme. Yours is not but at the same time you want what you want. So if you say this is the type of stability we want, this is what we want our life to look like when kids come on the scene, that's totally your choice. Nobody else has to understand that but just know from a a principal standard on our side

that is not part of the deal. You don't have to say we're going to postpone our family until XYZ is true with money.

Okay. Yeah, there's no baby step for having kids and I'll tell you Brian I I lived your story. It just wasn't that intentional of like we're not going to even try to have kids before we pay off the house but my wife and I we paid off our house in 26 months and then when we

did have a kid she was able to stay home with with less stress. So I think those steps will happen. I just don't think you need to use the house pay off as the excuse. But if you want to wait 2 years to have kids, do that and be paying off the mortgage early. But I don't think it needs to be this like we're not going to even try until the house is paid off.

See what I'm saying? Right.

Yeah, I get that. But I think you guys are going to get there regardless and we need more parents like you. More fiscally responsible parents in the world. So I wish you the best with the house pay off and with with having kids.

All right, thank you. Glad we could settle the debate.

Not crazy. Not crazy. I listen, I wouldn't change that for the world on my end. >> But if we were like hey, don't have kids until you're baby step seven we >> No, we can't say that. We can't say any of it to anybody. >> Population would decline. [laughter] We can't have that.

Population decline. Mike is in Houston, Texas. What's going on Mike? What's your question?

Great, thanks for taking my call.

My question is about accidental life insurance accidental death life insurance. I got a quote from you know somebody just kind of sent in the mail. The reason I'm questioning whether I need it or not is the premium is just so low that it almost seems like why wouldn't I take it? I'm 60, my wife 61,

we make about 150,000 a year, have no debt, uh net worth is about 1.8, house is paid

for it's about 400,000 the rest is in uh mutual funds 401k IRAs things like that plus some savings. Do you have term life?

I do. I'm sorry, yeah. I also have term life policy for both my wife a smaller amount cuz she never worked it's about 100,000 and I have about 500,000 on myself. So again

I'm wondering do I need again this it's just such a something like >> you what were the numbers on it? What were you trying to What's the amount of money you're trying to obtain upon accidentally dying?

Yeah, [laughter] that's kind of how we all hope to go intentionally.

Exactly. That's what so many the if you die in airplane it's $400,000 but the premium is only 20 bucks a month.

>> So what would happen if you upped what if you upped your policy from one I'm

sorry from 500 to 700? I'm sure it would be comparable if not less. It's No, it's

it's not cuz I have looked at that. So again in order to change my life insurance policies upping it actually puts it into a different you know I'm kind of Because of your age.

Yeah, and so the the term policy even

changing a little bit makes it not affordable. So >> Well, the truth is accidental death insurance is a gimmick insurance and and we never recommend that and I don't do it because it's a good deal and it's a low amount. The truth is you don't need it. If something happened to you, she's going to have $500,000. If something happens to her, you got 100 grand plus all of your retirement money. So, you guys are at the point where you could consider yourselves self-insured, right?

Yeah, that's right. It's kind of that balance right now of, you know, I feel like I could be, you know, but I don't I don't feel like enough to where I drop the life insurance.

>> never tell you to drop it. But, how long do you have left on the term policies?

10. All right. >> Okay. So, that's it. 10 years. 10 years from now, your wealth has doubled if not tripled, right?

Possibly. Yeah. And just based on stock market returns and your income. Yeah.

And if something happened to you, your would your wife be able to live on the nest eggs that you have? You've got the paid-for house. You'd have, you know, uh over, you know, 3 million sitting in your 401(k)s. Do you think she'd be able to live off that? She She would. >> 300,000 a year?

Yeah, she would. And then that's where the the the just the anxiousness is coming in. It's like, it's just a small dollar amount. It's almost just a gamble.

It's like gambling. You throw another quarter in there and see if it hits or not. Um is why I was questioning it. But, you almost I guess you had me when you said it's a gimmick.

It is a gimmick. I mean, think about it like this. You could You could, like, let's go down this hole. You could play it like that.

Um I would never recommend it, but it's kind of like what we say with things like crypto and single stocks. When your When your stuff is done right, you've done the baby steps, you've got extra, those things are considered gambling. It's like play money at that point. But, in this case, it just is I mean, it's all None of it's necessary, but >> It's just redundant.

>> Yeah, you don't need it. Cuz then it's like, well, [clears throat] what if you get the accidental death and you don't you don't get in a car accident and a hurricane doesn't land on right on your face. Like, what? You don't get the money at that point?

would be to pay a little bit more on the term life and to do it like that. But, really, you you're Once that policy's done, you're going to let it lapse anyway. Or, you're going to let it go anyway because you don't need it. So, it's really At this point, we're really just looking at it logically, and logically, it doesn't make sense.

>> I would skip it and put that 20 bucks in a fun money line item and have some fun instead of freaking out. But, man, how If your wife would be so mad if you died of natural causes after paying for this accidental life insurance for so long,

gosh, just pass peacefully in his sleep.

>> a roulette. Dang it, Mike. 100,000 dollars was on the line.

I hope you live a long life, Mike. I'm going to put that out there.

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Mary [music] is in New York City up next. What's going on, Mary?

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. How are you? Sure, we're doing great.

Good. Um I just have a question about how you would handle a situation when you disagree with your spouse about going into debt. Mhm. Tell us the Tell

us the tea. What's going on?

>> [sighs] >> Um so, it's regarding our vehicles. Um we both drive uh paid-off vehicles. I

drive a 2022 Ford Expedition, which we

bought um used. Uh went into a little

bit of debt, but paid it off very quickly. Um my husband drives a 2019

um Toyota 4Runner and has wanted a truck

for a long time and is kind of done

waiting. We've prioritized other uh financial goals for a long time, and now

he just thinks he he wants to go into debt to get it. >> Why would you have to go into debt? What about Well, let me ask a couple questions. Do you guys still have debt or everything's gone now?

Everything's gone. We have a fully funded emergency fund. Um

We have three kids, two of which have 529s, so we're saving for their college. We We fully fund our Roth IRAs every month.

>> Good. And um so, our youngest is two, so You're financially responsible adults, is that is what I would say.

What What is on fire that he needs to sacrifice all that you've built? I mean, can Why Why can you guys not save up and pay cash for this truck?

Yeah, I I think we can. I think it would take some time to save up the difference between the trade-in value. And then, we've got some other money set aside How long would it take?

I would say probably a year, maybe less than that if we were working extra hard.

>> the trade-in. What if you sold it private party and got five grand more for the 4Runner?

And then use that towards the truck on top of your savings. So, I would actually do some math and go, "Okay, what truck are we getting? Are we getting Is it a used truck?" It is, and it's about 55,000. Okay. And what could he sell his 4Runner for private party?

I would say probably about 30. Okay. So, you have a $25,000 gap. How much could you guys put aside right now towards that savings goal every month?

Uh every month, probably between 1,000 and 1,500.

Okay. So, this is going to take longer than a year based on that math.

Well, we've got another We've got about 50 Um we've set it aside for our kid for our oldest daughter's vehicle, but that's about five or six years down the road. So, we could use that. That's outside of our emergency fund. So, uh we were thinking we could also use some of that cash to to fund the truck.

>> And then you'd restart the the car fund for her. >> Mhm. Correct. >> Okay. That's reasonable. >> Mhm. And then, she should also be working, too. That hey, we're If we put this much away every month, January or December of 2026, you can get the car. I I want to get to the bottom of him, though. Uh because what when you tell me this, um

Mary, I'm thinking everybody wants a brand new car tomorrow, right? Like, I'm looking out in the audience. You Do you want a car tomorrow? Do you want one? We all want a brand new car tomorrow. So, like, there's this adult part of us that says, "That's not the way the world works." And I I personally consider it pretty

pretty abnormal, not in the Ramsey verse, but out in the world, pretty abnormal to say, "And, not only do I want a new car, a new-to-me car, but I could save to get it in a year." That's pretty spectacular.

And I think that he needs to be brought back into like brought back down to earth to say, "Most people would love a brand new car and could not afford to save up because they've got other debt other other things to worry about. They could not save up for it for a year." So, it's almost like he's lost perspective on what you've accomplished and what it allows you to do that is so much different than the average American. Does that make sense? Yeah.

I agree 100%. I think that's why I'm calling because um or this is just sort of a fork in the road, and I'm kind of to the point where I'm like, "Okay, do we just do this?" So, he kind of >> No. back off. Don't concede.

Cuz here's the thing. Okay, his brain is ahead of his bank account.

Yeah. And so, you need to say, "We worked our butts off to get out of debt.

It is a value of both of us that we are not a family who goes into debt. We're done. That's an old us that is gone.

That toddler raging inside of us, that instant gratification, that's that's the past. We're not doing that in the future. We're adults. We've been thinking about it a long time. Let's save for a long time." And so, if he wants it faster, work harder, dude. Go make more money. Cut more expenses. Mhm.

That's the conversation to have tonight.

I don't know if we can convince him. You don't get between a man and a truck.

>> Uh I would. I would stand firm. They There are very Okay, this is We're getting into marriage stuff here. So, George, there's very few things that with Sam, I put I like put my stake in, and I'm like, "You know what?" And I'll tell him ahead of time, "This is something I don't think I'm going to budge on." Like, we're going to have this conversation a lot of times.

Like, >> "Hey, I hope we have a comfy couch cuz you'll be sleeping over there." >> Yes. Be Especially like if I know that if I know I'm right. And I'm talking I always think I'm right, but when I really think I'm right, I there are certain things that you have to say, "You know what?" And I think this would be one of those, Mary, that I would say, "This is something that is very important to me, and I don't see myself rolling over on this anytime soon, and here's why." And I'd be I'd be getting firm.

Just saying. >> Yeah, and I feel like I've done that. Um he thinks I'm a hypocrite because we were in a debt to buy my vehicle. Um Oh.

Against his will? >> years ago. But was it against his will?

No. No. Um it was not. It was back when you were both stupid, right?

Yes. >> And now you're both smart. Like you got to remind him of this. Be like, "That was old us.

We've transformed since then. We were both doing stupid stuff back then, but then we got smart. Why would we go back?" He's like, "Well, I I get to do it once, too." You know, it truly is just a toddler inside of us, and it's going, "I want big truck." And you're like, "Well, you can have big truck 1 year from now." He's like, "I want big truck now." And it's like, "Okay, we can all throw our tantrum, but at some point you have to realize that he has a family. He has a wife.

It's not just him making stupid decisions. It affects other people in his life, namely you right now." Yeah, I agree.

And he actually owns that truck instead of being underwater on it or worrying about a payment after you guys worked so hard to get out of debt. Now you're back in baby step two, stressed out with three kids. You guys have a lot of expenses coming up. >> Uh-huh. He's got kids and college and cars. He's got fatigue.

>> Yeah, is he having a midlife crisis, Mary? Is he just done? He's like, how old is he?

About 37. Mm. Uh you know, I talk about this in the book. I'm going to go to this real quick because and I'm probably going to let's go ahead and send them a copy.

I don't know if he'll read it. Maybe he'll do the audio version. But um I talk about this. It's this fatigue that sets in um and it makes you mad.

It makes you angry. It's in the anger chapter. When you're making a good income, you've done so many things right, but you're still not at whatever you think the finish line should be, and there's just certain things that you think, "I deserve that. I work hard.

I did this." And and you look at the list of accomplishments and you go, "I deserve to have X, Y, Z." And in his mind it's, "I deserve to have this truck." And that is such a dangerous place to be, the I deserve, because it is just We saw it with COVID when there was the revenge spending.

>> We had to be locked up in our houses and we couldn't see our families, and we had to wear a mask, and as a result, I'm going to buy all the Lululemon that my you know >> to Italy. Yeah, I'm going to Italy, and it is a it's a natural response, so I'm not mad at your husband, but I do want to stop him from doing something that I think he's actually going to regret because then next thing you know, he's going to be the one calling the show talking about I bought a truck, and next thing I know I lose I lost my job, my wife's mad at me, right?

So, we're just trying to help him. I'll send you a copy of the book.

Okay. Thank you. >> What Hey, what's your household income, Mary, before you go?

Um about 170. Okay. And what's your car worth?

Probably 55. We We bought it for I think 60 back

in 2023 when we had our third child.

>> Okay. Well, here's here's what I want to throw out there. Our parameter around cars and things that go down in value, boats, motorcycles, whatever, is that it should add up to no more than half of your annual income. So, the truth is you guys are going to have way too much car considering your income and your financial world. And so, here's my compromise. He can have the truck now if he goes out and gets a $25,000 car and sells his 4Runner.

Could we find a sweet truck?

>> that.

How much better are they 5 years later?

Is the technology really that much better?

I I don't know. I don't really care about trucks, but he Well, he just wants the newest, shiniest thing. I would say here's the compromise. We can use whatever cash we have now to get the truck that we can afford with that amount of money.

And if we can't afford that, you want a nicer truck, we got to wait, and we have to make more money. It's way too much of our world to have $110,000 tied up with things going down in value even when we make 170.

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Not available in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Jenna in Illinois. She says, "My husband and I are in baby step two, but are also in stork mode as we'll have our first baby in a few months." That's exciting. "My question is, how do you deal with the pregnancy cravings? This is not going where I thought it was.

If I let myself, I would be building this baby on McDonald's french fries and Oreo cookies. So far I've done my best to limit those cravings and let not let them take over, but this is not easy. Is it okay to splurge on a drive-thru french fry order once a week? The cravings really do get wild sometimes, and the emotions the emotional swing is crazy.

Should I work on letting the cravings pass, or can I splurge a little until they go away later in my pregnancy? Oh my gosh. I I love this question. >> This is real the real talk.

Yeah. Okay, what's your take, Jade? I I fight me in the comments if you must.

Go get some french fries, for crying out loud. Please, woman, go get the french fries. Uh That's all I have to say on the matter.

My sister told me this, and she either told me this to make me feel better, or maybe it is scientific, but if the baby asks for it, it's cuz you need it. There you go. Like you just need to have it.

>> It's science. It means that you need energy. If you crave carbs, or you need

it's telling your body something is what she told me, so. >> Pre-dad George would be like, "No. You stick to the plan no matter what." And then I had to deal with a pregnant woman

and her cravings. I don't want to get in the middle of a pregnant woman and her craving. It is, "Yes, ma'am. I am on it." Now, what what was Whitney's? Um you know what? I think she went the I think she was salty. Things like salty snacks, and then it switched to sweets with the our latest. Can I tell you mine? If that Krispy Kreme light was on, The [laughter] hot sign's on, you You could not stop me. better bet Jade's in that drive-thru. >> not stop me. You still can't stop me.

>> I do think limiting it is good cuz it can turn into a habit, and I would try to go, "Hey, what cravings can we accomplish through shopping at the grocery store versus eating out?" Cuz that's where it triples or quadruples.

>> Yeah. Cuz that's the mark up. A potato's a potato.

Um Alexa has some great ones in the air fryer. >> going to say, you can get now it's McDonald's fries are top tier. Their diet Coke is top tier. If you know, you know. >> different. >> You can't get a diet Coke from the store and have it hit the same. That's just the truth. Ask any woman. That's true.

>> But are there Can we get Oreos from the store? Sure. And that's a grocery line item. >> Mhm.

Um so, if those are your cravings, then you can grocery shop for them, I would say fair game. >> How much is a McDonald's Let's You want to know what I would do to make you feel better? What's the math on it? How much is a McDonald's large fry?

I would say, I don't know, three or four bucks, probably. About three? >> $5? Oh gosh.

>> Is Right. $2? [laughter] $4 for a large fry? Yeah, I was going to say four bucks.

Okay. So, four bucks once a week, that's about, you know, you're talking 16 bucks a month. >> Uh-huh. That's not bad.

20 bucks a month after tax. >> I would cut something else out of the budget in order to make this the priority that it needs to be. >> a cravings line item and set it for that $20 amount. And then you kind of have the permission to spend without guilt and without getting in a fight.

>> lower hypothetically, you could lower your grocery budget by six $16. Make it a meal. make a sub, and just say, "You know what?

>> Trade-off. But there's not a lot you can do. And the thing with pregnancy cravings, they they'll just switch.

You're like, "Well, I just bought 9 lb of pickles, and now you hate pickles? You can't stand the smell of pickles?" That's my life. >> happen. What was your What was Whitney's version? Um I want I don't remember if it was coffee, the smell of coffee.

She's going to correct me. It's all a blur when you have a pregnant wife. It's There's a lot going on, especially when you got a toddler and and she's pregnant. You're surviving. >> Yep. Yep. >> So, no shade thrown at Jenna for wanting some fries once in a while. All right, Colton is in Huntsville up next. What's going on, Colton?

Hey, how are you doing? Great. What's your question? Uh so, I retired from the military at

38. Moved up to Huntsville, Alabama to take a sales job after I tried some sales in Florida and figured I might be pretty good at this unique opportunity and it's just door-to-door cold calling all day, every day on churches, schools, and businesses selling LED signs. Well, my first year I made about $100,000.

Woo. Uh so, it's going pretty good.

Well, now this year's my second full year and I've made about $502,000.

Whoa. Dude, you can sell some LED.

Yeah, and my retirement's about 60 $8,000 a year tax-free.

Um I don't have anything else set up. I mean, I've got health care the rest of my life. My >> Yeah, well, thank you for your service, by the way.

And I'm glad you've transitioned into the workplace so effectively and

spectacularly.

>> Yeah, well, yeah, it's been good. I like people. I like I like Now, was this just a random good year or is it you like I could do this every year? This is consistent.

Oh, it's a unique situation cuz I'm basically also

in a roundabout way operating as a COO of the whole company cuz uh it's just a unique situation with the way the business structured. So, I I grinded a lot harder than I did the first year this year. I probably won't stress myself out as much to to hit this level cuz we're just not internally set up to handle this amount of work by myself cuz I have to go quote the job, sell the job, buy the customer, see it get installed, close it all out, everything. So, it's just >> You have enough money.

Can you hire an assistant? Can you >> Um that's that's been recommended. I Now, I've done a very good job delegating and and and paying people on the side to close things out so that I could move on to other jobs and and other, you know, things like that, but I haven't thought about that yet, but I just I wasn't set up. I didn't see it was going to happen this way, so I didn't have a LLC or anything set up.

Have you set aside money for taxes?

Well, I've saved about 430 of the 502 that I've made this year.

>> My gosh. Cuz you don't need it.

That's That's what's crazy about this.

>> Yeah, so I've saved it just all out of fear as I didn't know what my taxes were going to be. I didn't know what >> Yeah, you might have a $150,000 tax bill, so I'd be on those quarterly estimated payments and and not be shocked. Cuz you can get penalties and fees.

>> and then a lawyer to set up an LLC so that this next year I start getting paid through the LLC, start itemizing. I got a 401k that I'm going to set up.

>> Great. >> I owe about 280 on my house. It's worth probably 350. That's the only debt I have. No credit card debt.

>> So, what's your question?

>> is do I just my I have this huge goal of

not having a house payment.

Um and my I guess my question is do I take 70,000 and max out and put into the contribution my 401k to avoid taxes on that or do I just eat what my taxes are going to be, see where my money's at, and pay the house off? If I were you, I would invest up to 15% assuming you've

got 3 to 6 months of of expenses set aside. If you don't, take some cash, set it aside, earmark it as an emergency fund. If I were you, I'd do 6 months.

Um I would then uh make sure you're

investing 15%. Once you get that 401k set up, that's that's the magic number you want. 15% of your gross income.

Which that's 75 grand if you made 500.

Yeah, like I could max contribute this year the way I've got set up is 70 grand and I didn't know if if I should do that or just pay the taxes what I'm going to take the hit that I'm going to >> How old are you? get hit with? I'm 38.

Okay. I mean, you're basically front-loading a new retirement fund right there with 70 grand. That's going to That's amazing. Now, if you want to pay off the house >> of my life is about 70 grand tax-free and then it course it goes up with inflation.

>> Yeah. But if you wanted to pay off the house today and you just still have money left over to pay all your taxes and then we'll you know, then you're really set up to build some serious wealth.

Yeah. Yeah, and so that's that's just kind of where I was at is do I take that lump sum and go ahead and put it into a 401k to avoid paying taxes on it and get it invested or do I just take the hit that I'm going to get hit on tax >> the good news is the house is going to get paid off. Yeah, it's going to get paid off fast regardless. I would get with your tax accountant and go, "Hey, what's my best tax saving strategy so I don't give the IRS more than I have to." And any money left over, pay the taxes with and whatever's left after that, throw it at the mortgage and you'll pay off the house next year.

>> And Colton, good job.

>> [music]

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Sarah is in Chicago up next. What's going on, Sarah?

Hi. So, I'm 23 and I graduated college

in May of '25. And when I graduated, I

had two full-time jobs making over $8,000 a month after taxes and lifestyle creep kind of hit me. So, for my grad gift I bought a used Porsche for $20,000 and then I moved to Chicago, which doubled my living expenses. And then unexpectedly last month one of my jobs ended. It was a contract. And so, now I only have one job and I realized I could barely cover my bills with that job and so, I stopped investing for my 401k, which left me like a $200 buffer after, but then my student loan payment

deferment period ended and so, now I have a $500 payment that just does not fit in my budget and I can't afford it.

So, >> So, now you're back in the red and like negative 300. What's the income? 4,000?

What did it go down to?

Um so, now after taxes I'm making like 4,900 and my basic budget is like 4,700.

Okay. So, what it sounds like happened and it happens to the best of us. You got excited cuz you were you were doing well. Um and I get it, but you kind of started doing things out of order.

And so, now what I think George and I are going to attempt to do is get you back on track in doing things in the proper order. >> We're going to right-size, as they call it in the corporate world. >> Right-sizing. You were investing. It wasn't quite time to invest yet. You were buying a car, but it was time to pay off the student loans. It was like kind of all jumbled up. So, first off,

the student loans. Is that Is that the only debt you have or is there other debt?

Um besides the car loan, just those two.

Okay. So, the student loans, you said about 500 bucks a month, but what's the the the full amount?

It's 46,000. Okay. And then the car,

what's the full amount of that?

20,000. Okay. And there's nothing else, no credit cards, no medical, nothing else? No, nothing else. >> Okay. Do you have any money saved?

I have 68k total. Like 40 45 in

investments and 20k or 15 in my emergency fund. So, $15,000 emergency fund. I love that you said that. So, the way we would teach it and remember the the point is to do this in the right order. Um if I were to tell you, "Oh, great.

$15,000 saved." In the in the in the face of debt, it's not really your money, right? Because you owe 46,000 to one place and 20,000

to another. So, is it fair to to say that that's not actually yours?

Yes. Yes. So, what I would suggest you

do. But it's also fair to say, "Well, I need a little bit of a of a buffer, Jade." So, that's >> Yeah.

>> The first thing you need You just need a thousand bucks. It's you You just need a thousand bucks between you and the rest of the world so that if something comes up, you can deal with it without going into debt. So, that's what I would do.

I'd put a thousand dollars aside and then that would leave you 14,000 and I would take that and I would throw it at this debt because the next step is for you to pay off your consumer debt.

And so, with that 14, you're going to come, you know, very very close to knocking out the car. And then as you're

paying off the debt, you're going to work to increase your income so you can do it even faster. And then after the debt's gone, now we can start save up an emergency fund and it will actually be your money. It will actually be what it's intended to be, which is a safety net and a sense of security against all the things that might try to come at you versus what it is today, which is kind of just this nagging feeling that is there, but it's not really yours and there's the debt there.

I mean Yeah. How does that hit you?

Um I've I've listened to your guys' show for a while, so I know that you guys you typically talk about doing with the $1,000 emergency fund, but it it really scares me. I I was a foster kid who like aged out of the system, so I don't have like there's nothing I can fall back on if let's say I lose my other job. Like I mean I can I can go back to being a server, doing anything. Like I will never, you know, but it just really scares me to have a nothing in savings, you know, like that really scares me.

Like $1,000 is like half of that. Like rent is $2,000.

>> Here's the alternative though.

It scares me to have you sitting with $66,000 of debt and it's going to take you forever to pay it off if you're the normal American. And so this is a scary move that makes you really it lights a fire under you to get out of that faster cuz right now you're kind of comfortable with the emergency fund. And comfort is the enemy of progress in this case. And so once you throw that at the debt, you're like, oh, game on.

Like we're in this thing. So do you have a bunch of student loans?

It's a bunch and some are um it's a bunch, yeah. So you could probably knock out with the 14K. If you got smaller debts that are smaller than 20K, you could probably knock out a few student loans right there, which frees up those payments, right?

Yeah. That's good. Which could get you at least to a break-even point. And then what is your rent every month?

My rent is uh 2,200.

And you're there's a big problem. You're living alone?

I do. Okay. That's eating That's eating your lunch right now as far as your take-home pay to rent ratio. It's 45%.

Is there a way to get a roommate?

Um in my current um it's probably the closest I've been in my current living situation that I couldn't have a roommate, but um I I could like when this lease ends, I could move somewhere else. But that might be lease ends in October, so that's not like helpful, you know. Yeah.

It's in October.

Yeah. Uh what about take picking up a second job?

I'm super open. Like I've been like interviewing and stuff, but it's, you know, um right after the holidays, people aren't interviewing, but, you know, especially I work in tech, so it's just mostly interviews that can take a month, so it's just like nothing right now, but I'm open to like getting a serving job or something like that. I'm >> I would do that.

I'd do that immediately until the job that you really want does open up. It's going to do It's going to help out your budget, number one, but it's also going to help out your mental state because that feeling of, oh my gosh, I'm just barely making it. I don't have a job.

I'm not making the income. You don't want that to persist. And so bringing in income, getting your budget right side up is really going to help you. It's going to help you perform better in the interviews. It's going to put you know, all of that is going to be affected by that. Um I want to send you a copy of the book because the fear that you were talking about earlier about being a foster kid, I talk I talk in the book about fear of

uh the fear of doing a certain action um can actually keep us in a more scary place. And George said that. It's scarier to sit with $60,000 of debt and it's almost

like you're not able to see how scary that is because of this other fear that's operating over here that we can actually do something about.

And so I want to walk you through that because this is so common and it makes a lot of sense. I have empathy for that and I want to validate like I that makes total sense that you would be, you know, have that scarcity mentality in that way, but it doesn't mean that it's an excuse to say stay that way. I think we can walk you through it because right now you're calling in the show.

So you're up against it regardless, right? So let's get you from against that wall and get you moving forward and not let that fear stop you from the progress that George and I both know that you can make.

Are you living in the city, Sarah?

Yes, I live like downtown. Okay. Do [clears throat] you need a car right now?

Um I mean in Chicago, no, you don't need a car, but I think I'm from like rural Illinois, so I'm just very used to having a car. I don't know how to not have a car, but I I mean I think Chicago has great transit, so I think I could >> Yeah, that's what I was going to say is I mean you could really get out of that much faster. You take your 14 plus the the Porsche is worth 20 at least.

Yeah. That's pretty wild. That's half your debt gone right there.

Ooh, I would do that in Cuz here's here's the napkin math. If you don't sell the car, but you take the 14, apply it to your debt, leaves you with 52,000.

Now, if you apply 1,000 a month, you're done in 52 months. You apply 2,000 a month, you're done in 26 months, about 2 years. Right now, we don't even have a dollar to scratch together because of our budget.

So that's where I'm just showing you the reality. If we stay the same, you are going to be in debt for a long time. If you decide to make some drastic changes, 2 years from now you could be debt-free.

You make two grand a month take-home from this other job, where you sell the Porsche, now we're making progress.

That's the goal here. So hang on the line, we're going to send you Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money.

We're rooting for you, Sarah. You got this.

>> [music]

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>> Welcome back [music] to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio.

I'm George Kamel here with Jade Warshaw taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Megan is in Virginia Beach. What's going on, Megan? How can we help today?

Hey, thank you for having me. Absolutely.

I need some advice, y'all. And it really it boils down to two things. The first is um how to approach the conversation with my husband about the benefits of combining our finances.

And the second is whether that's even appropriate. So to give you a little bit of context, my husband and I have been married for 2 years.

Um I came into the marriage with uh a mortgage, about $280,000 in mortgage.

Um but otherwise no debt. And he came to

the marriage with close to $300,000 in student loan debt and no assets.

And you know, this is something that obviously we knew we had talked about.

Um and unfortunately, he was unemployed for the first year of our marriage. Um and he has since regained employment.

He's doing well. Um but during this time, our finances

have been completely separate. Um you know, he's did some of the things actually that you talk about. Um I think he's got some emotional baggage that's tied to that amount of student loan debt and he's concerned that you know, should we combine finances, there's a possibility that um the creditors may

come after combined assets or they may

try to um adjust his payment schedule based on our combined income. And I think that these are all valid results, but um

some of the conversations I've had with him are, well, I would I think there's

major benefit to combining our incomes because um just the visibility, right?

We would be on the same page. We would be able to plan for things together like retirement. We wouldn't have to Yeah.

have the conversation about who's got who's going to pay for dinner on Friday night. Who's picking up the tab? You know, like [laughter] some of the stuff like that. And um you know, he's making a little bit of money now. Um he hasn't started paying the student loan debts yet. Oh my gosh, it's a different story, but >> What does he make and what do you make?

Yeah, so I make about $140,000

a year. Um and he makes about 130 right now.

Okay, great. But he owns his own business. So after all of the overhead, I think last year he took a he took home about 40. What? >> Oh. So his income is only 40. It's not 130K.

Yeah. When you say took home, like on his taxes His revenues were 130, but his his salary >> he really made 40 according to the IRS.

Right, right. And so, you know, part of that is owning your own business.

You know, we he writes off a lot of things. He's got a lot of overhead right now. What did he go to school I'm sorry.

What did he go Lawyer? And what kind of business does he do?

He's got his own law practice. Okay. How long How long has he been at it?

About 5 years. And each year he's made

40,000?

Or less? Or more? >> Um well, he uh no, this year has been the best year.

Um but I have to really say that >> Let me ask you a question. Is he a good lawyer?

He is. That's where I was going is that his earning potential is going to keep keep going. And so What's holding him back? >> go work for someone else and make 50, 60, 70, 80K today?

He can, but he won't. >> Why not?

>> He can't work for other people. Why? He

doesn't play nice with others?

Kind of.

He's fried.

But [laughter] but truly >> good lawyer. Truly tell I I need to understand that because if it's if it's a real thing, it's a real thing, but if it's just a preference then we have something that we actually need to talk about, right?

Yeah, so I've structured this conversation by saying cuz I brought this up before, you know, why don't you go to local law firm ABC and

yeah, you're going to have some taxes that are going to come or your some payments that are expenses that are going to come out of your payroll, but at the end of the day like we can budget and we can you know,

start to get on the same same page about these things. It's not like feast or famine. Yeah. Building a business is is

different than just being good at the task that the business does.

Right? Yeah, and he it's

It's a good question.

Um and >> we're we're looking at just basic napkin math going if you make 40k, you're not going to pay off 300k.

Yeah, and that's kind of what I've

been struggling with in in addition to the conversation of combining our finances. Here's the thing. You you you married this guy. I'm just going to I'm going to try to shoot you straight here. You married this guy, so so you are one.

Today you're one.

The things that you're talking about, yeah yeah you could benefit from a counselor. It seems like there's some things that you're frustrated with, unhappy with and you've had the conversations and it seems like it's to no avail. You could use a third party mediating between that so that you guys can come to a way that you discuss this and it actually makes progress cuz right now it feels like you you've just hit a a wall and you feel like it doesn't matter what I say, he's not listening on on the issue of him making 40,000 for the fifth year in his own law firm.

Okay. Now as for the combining of money,

I do believe you need to combine your money because at that point we're talking about goals and a shared lifestyle, shared values and so I think that's important to do. Is it that he doesn't want to combine or is it that you don't want to combine because of the things you listed earlier?

No, actually I've been a complete I've wanted to combine just because you know, I married I knew that he had the student loan debt, but at the end of the day like you were saying the goals and the values are much more important to me than you know, other things that we can work through that I knew about.

>> Good. Um but he has been hesitant to combine the finances because um

at some point he's going to have to start paying on the student loan debt and there he's concerned that his payment is going to be larger because >> And there's there's where the values are. >> Here's my thing. I think that's BS. I think this is all about pride and shame.

>> so, too. And he doesn't want to drag you into his mess cuz he made it and he's a big man and he's going to take care of it. I don't think this is about a restructured payment that he's worried about. >> Mhm. Cuz if the goal is to pay the debt come thing off, then the payment amount doesn't matter anyway cuz you'd be paying well above whatever they'd assign to you anyway, right?

Yeah, right. >> yeah I and I've always been I think it's also kind of a diff differences in how we approach debt because I've always been aggressive when it comes to repayment.

Um hence the no debt. Well, this goes back to the goals and values part, which is if you combine, these are the things that you talk about over your your money meetings. You you sit down with your spouse and you say, "Okay, you share here here's where here's what I'm feeling." And I I said told somebody this earlier today. You sit down and you say, "You know what?

I've been feeling there's a disconnect with our money. I feel like this is an area that we really could work to be closer on and have more transparency and have more support for one another. I want to support you. I see the debt that is in your name and I want to help.

the same page. That's the first conversation and start to bring those walls down. That's why I said a mediator can help and then we need to once you get on the same page of yeah, let's pay off this debt. Now it's how intense how intense are we going to get? >> is the budget. So tell you it's a lot easier to pay down 300,000 with a 180,000 income instead of 40. Right.

>> And so you are the light at the end of this tunnel and you need to convince him that this is our debt and we're going to pay it off together and there's no shame here. Put it down. Let's get to work.

Send her a copy of the book, Christian, please. Thank you. >> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Alex is up next in Chicago. What's going on, Alex? What's your question today?

Hi guys. I'm just trying to call in to see if I could make a career change and become like an entrepreneur in my adult life.

Okay. Tell us more. What are you doing now?

I'm a heavy equipment operator.

I make pretty good money, I'd say. I made six figures last year, which I guess just ended a couple weeks ago and that was my first year making that much money. So I kind of got a lot of life coming at me right now. 100,000 or 200,000? Yeah,

100,000, 104,000. Way to go. And what

did you say you had a lot of life coming at you? What does that mean? Yeah.

So my my daughter just turned one actually New Year's Day. Uh my other daughter's going to be born in April uh and I just closed on a house. Woo.

>> Well.

And I'm getting married in October of this year, so. Okay.

Okay. So the question is you're wanting to transition out of your job doing heavy equipment into possibly starting your own business. What would the business be? The the same thing you're doing now just on your own or something different? Uh no, it'd probably be something pretty different, honestly. I was looking at getting into real estate and I was talking to one of my buddies and he was saying that home inspectors make really good money and that when he it was a

specifically mobile home inspectors. He was looking at purchasing one and he said that the only guy in the area was booked out for like a year. Mhm.

Um I was looking to transition into that. So what's I'm trying to get to the core of what's driving this. Is what's driving this I don't like my current job and I'm just looking for something else that seems like it could be interesting. Is what's driving this I need to make more money and this seems like something that could make me more money cuz it's not I love mobile home inspecting, so let me go do that, right? So what's driving this?

>> Right. Well, um I guess be dream of mine as well as like last year like I said I made good money, but I worked a lot of hours and I

just want to be able to be more present in my daughter's lives. Okay.

I see. So it's it's it's time is what you're trying to get back.

Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Okay. That's a good place to start and I I think that's noble. I love that. Do you have any debt? No debt?

No, I'm debt free. Debt free.

Um getting getting ready to get married.

>> about to buy.

Yeah, you got the mortgage. Is your your soon-to-be wife, fiance, [snorts] will

she be working or she going to stay home with the kids?

She's a she's currently a stay-at-home mom and she probably will be up until they go to school, I'd say at least.

Okay. >> So probably about five or six years, you know. Okay, so what do you guys need to to live and to accomplish your financial goals? Could you live on cuz here's the thing. Home inspectors, I just looked it up. The average salary is 55 to 62,000 a year.

So I would I don't want you to jump into this and go, "Well, I'm going to be making more. I'll own my time. I'll be an entrepreneur." It may be a grind and you might need to own your own home inspection business long term to be making six figures. And you might yeah and you might have to be an ex like really really good at it, which is brand new for you in that area. So there's I feel like there's a huge curve there.

So here's my question. I like to get the dock, you know, the boat close to the dock. So could you start to go through the the training education process, pass the exams, get licensed if that's required and you know, maybe a year from now we revisit this and see if you're still into it and you want to pursue it.

Yeah, I don't see why I wouldn't be able to you know, start the process now, but then go full time in a year, you know, whatever the timeline is.

I'd actually take a step I I would This is just me based on what I've heard you say. I would take a step back. I would

I would do Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do and figure out what it really is that you would be wired to do that you'd be really good at that you could go into business on your own or that you could pursue as a as a different path. Because this really does And there might be more to it that you didn't say, but it kind of just sounds like, "Oh, here was an idea. I'll just go with that." >> Just a random buddy offhand >> Uh-huh. >> and now it's like total career change.

>> Yeah, and and before you sink time and money and effort, I would really explore your option. Nothing's on fire here. So, you've got time to really narrow it down and go, "You know, what do I want to do? What would I be good at?

What would really light my fire?" Because long-term you're going to want something that you're passionate about doing, so you actually stick with it. The money is not going to be enough.

So, that's what I would do if if I were in your shoes. I would just drill down a little bit more on what what that career needs to be.

Okay. And I'd meet with some people who do home inspections for a living and get their take on the business and your area and what's going on where you can make good money and you know, what's the difference between working for a company versus yourself. I would get all of that laid out and then decide from there. So, we're going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

Okay. And then when would I know like when I'm prepared to make that leap into becoming, you know, an entrepreneur? It really is like George said earlier. So, knowing that your wife is going to stay home, calculating what your mortgage is going to be.

So, there's a couple of principles I'd go by. Number one, your mortgage can't be any more than 25% of your take home. So, that's going to be so so so key because for a lot of people that's the make or break. So, working backwards and say, "Here's what we think the mortgage is going to be.

Here's what we think it's going to take to operate our lifestyle." And knowing exactly what that number is, so you say, "Okay, I need to be I I need to find a way that I'm doing the job I'm doing now while starting the new business and slowly but surely that business is going to going to start making more and more money. So, you're going to have a period where you're actually working more now." >> Yeah.

And then the goal is you go, "Okay, if I scale this home inspection stuff to full-time, this is what I could realistically be making. If I was doing this 40 hours a week instead of eight." So, that's when you know, "Okay, I'm very clear." And you'll know it. You'll go, "Oh my gosh, I love this. I'm making good money doing it.

If I left tomorrow, I know I've got enough, you know, leads in the pipeline and connections and work that I could leave this heavy equipment job and go do my own thing." Okay. Yeah, I guess my my whole thing was like I'm only 22, so I'm pretty young. So, I got like a lot of time where like now I can, you know, make the jump I feel like before it's like I'm solidified. I see a lot of the guys >> making a jump with a pregnant wife and a 1-year-old and a new home is not the time you want to go eat, pray, love and and pursue your dream.

Right now, you have a family to feed. We can't risk a drop in income. Yeah, and to your point, you're 22. You have time.

You have time, my friend. Do this the right way because what's going to happen is when you start this, here's what could happen. You say, "I'm just going to make the leap. I'm just going to jump." You get into it, you hate it, and you're not making any money, and you're like, "Dang it, why did I do that jump?" Whereas the way we're talking, it also allows you to get your feet wet and decide, "Do I like this?

Is this right for me?" You haven't let your big job go yet, right?

going to jump with both feet and, you know, God will protect me." You don't want to do it that way. And uh Alex, we're also going to send you a copy of Dave Ramsey's latest book, Build the Business You Love, and that'll help you on the entrepreneurship side to really get a clear picture of what this is going to take. How do I grow this thing and not just let it be a little side project and side hustle. Uh and I'm confident, dude, you're 22, you're making $104,000, you're not scared of hard work.

That's really the the secret sauce of being an entrepreneur. People think, "Well, Jade, I want to be my own boss and work 4 hours a week." You're going to work more than everybody else.

You got sold a course and a lie.

Entrepreneurship is working 80 hours a week for 6 years just to get the thing off the ground to hope that you can sustain it and then it's still work from there. Ask Dave Ramsey. He's been at it for 30-plus years. Nothing about it is easy. Nothing about it is passive. If anything, it's more work, but it's rewarding if that's what you're wired to do. So, explore it. I wish you the best.

And those books are going to be really helpful. Jade, too many people they I like that he's at least thinking about this at 22. Too many people call us at 42. They're going, "Hey, I hate what I've been doing for the last two decades and I'm burnt out.

I'm fatigued." He's doing this from a place of strength right now. Absolutely. And so, time is on his side. I think one of the most dangerous things people can do is get rushed cuz when you're rushed, you get sloppy, and when you get sloppy, you make mistakes.

He's got time, and most of us do have time. We make it seem like, you know, we're backed against a corner, but we're not. There's options and there's time, and we can take our time and do it right like the song says.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our Get Started Assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/start, answer some questions, and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

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>> [music]

[music] >> Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and get [music] a personalized plan made just for you.

Simply head to the show notes of this episode and click on [music] the link titled Are You on Track with the baby steps and complete the quiz. Nicole is in St. Paul, Minnesota up next. Nicole, how are you today?

Good. How are you? Great. How can Jade and I help?

Um I have a question. Um I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have been for over 4 years now, and I have just been hearing some stories about stay-at-home moms being stay-at-home moms for 10-plus years and then all of a sudden their husbands wanting a divorce and they have nothing, no financial um no credit cards in their name, no retirement accounts in their name, um and I was like, "Oh, that's me." I don't want to be that person just in case in however many years if something were to happen.

financially. >> How does your marriage feel today? Like, how do you feel about your marriage? Is it in a good place? Do you feel like you guys have been in a in a tough place?

We've been in a tough place um for

probably over a year now. Okay. So, is that a Am I right to say that that could affect how this conversation could go and his openness to the conversation?

Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure, honestly. Um I feel like

I I don't suspect that we would want to do that um like to get a divorce or anything, but I mean, the conversation [clears throat] about you saying essentially, "Hey, um you know, I've been thinking about our money and I've realized I I kind of feel disconnected from it, and I've been disconnected from it of my own volition.

I haven't paid attention. I haven't, you

know, I've kind of let you handle that, and I'm realizing that wasn't the right place for me to that wasn't the right stance for me to have on this. It's it's it's our life, [clears throat] and I need to It's almost like you're putting the ball in your court and say, 'You know what? I I need to kind of step up here, right?'" I think that's a good way to approach it. Um how do you think he would receive

that? Is he open to full transparency?

Your name on everything along with mine.

Yes, honey, you are the beneficiary on my 401k. See right here, I'll show it to you. Like, is he open to that?

>> Yeah. I Yeah, I think So, I used to take care of our finances of like the budgeting and planning and all that. Um but then just more responsibilities got on my plate, so I gave that to him.

And it's and I do feel like if I were to bring it up to him and like, "Hey, let's talk about all this." He'd be like, "Yeah, let's do it. Let's get you on that." Oh, good. Um but I but I have a a lot of hard time trusting that he'll follow through with that. And so, I'm feeling like is like I I will have to do it if that makes sense. Well, I think that's okay.

If I mean, I will say when it comes to money, there does tend to be uh certain spouses will take the lead more so in certain areas, but as long as the transparency is there and both people want to participate in their best in the areas they're best suited, I think that's okay. So, if you have the conversation, he says, "Yes, 100%.

Here's the password. You know, if you want to pop in there and just check it, that's cool. Yeah, I think that's great.

Um Um now as far as the if the worst

happened, right? Nobody Nobody plans a divorce. So if if the worst happened, uh

would you be protected? The first step is yes, I'm 50/50 on everything. We do things in both of our names, but there's a lot of it that will go into the hands of the courts. And >> In most states, assets accumulated during marriage will be evenly divided 50/50. And you know, if you're a stay-at-home mom, there's going to be spousal support on top of child support.

So unless he's a deadbeat, we've gotten these calls. So I'm not saying it's out of the ordinary. We get the calls where they're like, "Oh yeah, he just doesn't pay and we can't find him." >> him. No, I hope that's not this guy.

I hope he's an honorable man of integrity and character and takes care of his family even if in the event of a divorce. [clears throat] Um but you know, knowing where the money is at, the accounts, the debts, the passwords, the insurance, making sure that your wills are in place. These are things you should do anyways, regardless of what's going on in your marriage, but I think that's wise.

All right, do you guys have a joint checking account? We do. Yeah, we just have we have one we have one bank account. Both of our names are on it. All of our savings accounts are are there. Good. Okay. All that stuff is going to help. Um and I don't even like talking about it in a way cuz I'm not trying to to predict that for you, but I think um for the most part when we do get those calls about deadbeats, there are there

were red flags. Yeah. There were markers there that indicated that this this person might might end up being that type of person. And it doesn't sound like you have that.

It sounds like you got spooked by something you heard. Um and it's kind of like could could you get in a car accident? Yeah, you could, but are you you're a safe driver, you wear your seatbelt. You Do you see what I'm saying?

Um but I can't say that there's a 1,000%

guarantee that somebody couldn't turn out to be a deadbeat, if that makes sense. The good news is the good news is you're a smart woman. If if you needed to, you could land on your feet and I believe that just by talking to you.

Great. >> Is there is there hope that we're going to resolve this? I can you guys go to marriage counseling or is this like, "Hey, we just this is a fork in the road and it it could go either way."

Um I mean, we're doing marriage counseling currently. Good. Um and I think it's helping some. I think this is the big part is um I think they got like the trust of feeling like I can depend on him in these [clears throat] really major things. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah, rebuilding trust is I mean, that's paramount. The whole relationship is built on that. When it's broken, I mean, you it's crazy cuz it takes forever to build and you can break it in an instant. And then you got to rebuild.

And so I'm sorry you guys are going through this. Uh it's it's not a paranoid hypothetical

in your life. This is a a real concern and you have a right to be worried. And then I would go do the things I can control. I would work on me. I would work on my marriage. I would make sure that I have access to the accounts, that I'm a joint owner on anything I can be, that I'm legally protected as far as wills and life insurance and beneficiaries. All of that is wise. Uh

can I ask a question about the kids?

Yeah. How old are they?

Um four, two and a half, and two months.

If it made you feel better, um and I'm not saying you need to do this. I'm just I'm just putting myself in your shoes. If I had

true worry about the future of my marriage, like truly, like, "Man, I don't know if we're going to get out of this." There might be part of me that would start thinking, "If I were to work, what would I be doing?" If if if I had to pick up a job, just hypothetically, if I had to pick up a job, what would I do? What would that look like? Would I need a degree? Would I need money?

If I had you know, having that conversation with your with yourself could be a [snorts] good thing.

>> a new life and you're sort of already living it in a sense. >> I'm not trying to You see what I'm saying. But only you know where you're at in that relationship. And if you were at the point where it started being at I just don't know.

I don't know. That would only That would be the smart thing to do for you and your children and and for him, too, cuz you want everybody to land on their feet. So I'll just throw that out there. Mhm.

Nicole, we're wishing you the best.

calls are heartbreaking when she's like I'm like, "Okay, what's your income?" Well, yeah, you got a divorce. What's the child support? The alimony? Oh, he does He hasn't paid.

Yeah. The court's ordered it. He just doesn't You have a deadbeat, somebody who hasn't been in the workforce for you know, 15 years, like that sort of thing. It's It's very tough.

>> I do think it's wise. And if you were working before kids, you know, keep those skills sharp. There's nothing wrong with that. And maybe you the kids the marriage is great, the kids go to school and you decide I want to go back to work anyways.

>> Exactly. Exactly. >> man, that's that's tough. Um we always say that you know, mar- marriage is grand, divorce is 50 grand.

And that's really sad. But then it becomes, "Okay, who gets what? What accounts go where?" And it just kind of becomes this split, this chasm that you have to deal with. And I mean, you got young kids in the mix, too, which just makes things way more complicated. And it it's heartbreaking.

So the best thing to do is prevent a divorce and have a healthy, strong marriage. Have the accountability and transparency. And that's why we recommend combining accounts. Then there's no surprises. You can't [music] have financial infidelity when she gets transaction alerts on everything I >> Right. Right. Which is what we do in my family. I'm like, "What did you spend?

Okay, I'd rather have that than I didn't know you did that." >> Oh, absolutely. I have every password.

Every single one. >> Sam Warshaw, watch your back, bro. >> Don't try it. He would never He never would.

>> [music]

>> All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents

aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseysolutions.com/

>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 13:16, but do not forget to do good and to share. For with such sacrifices, God is well pleased.

Mark Twain said, "Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." True words. Deborah is in Dallas up next. What's going on, Deborah? How can we help? Yes, I was just wondering um I wanted a

pre-nup. I've never been married before.

Um my fiance has. And I just feel like

I've worked hard, I've saved. And I just

want to know is that a good way to protect myself in the event that something happens. Of course, I don't want a divorce, but you know, things happen. So um just here to get some advice. What's your net worth?

I'd say about 600. 600,000?

Yes. How much of that is your home and how much of it is it a business that you own? Um I don't own a home. I actually

sold my home in the height of COVID and made like 130,000.

I put that in my IRA.

Um so 330,000 is IRA. 120,000 is just my

personal savings. And then I recently did an investment in a real estate property where I'm going to make anywhere between 130 to 150 off of a one flip. Okay. >> Um And how much is the debt on that?

Uh the debt on that is 310, but of course I did a hard money loan. So once that loan is paid off, I pay that back and the profit from the sale of the home will go to me. Again, it's estimated um based off the appraisal of the home before I finished my flip, I would profit anywhere between 120 and 150,000.

Ooh, that's a risky deal. Okay, that's a different call. Let's tell us about him.

How long have you guys been dating and engaged for? We've been dating um four

years. We've been engaged almost a year.

Um he was previously married for 20 plus years with two children. Um they are grown now. Uh and he had to of course

split his assets, his retirement, his They had to sell their home. And of course, his net worth isn't as high as mine. And I'm just I'm just getting married.

Uh he did not, but he was kind of just

left with you know, not a lot after the divorce. Okay. What do you make and what does he make?

Uh we both make the same thing. I'm about a 100 grand a year. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Does your family have a bunch of money? Is your family quite wealthy? Are you standing to inherit a bunch?

No.

Okay. So, what's you think his net worth is maybe a few hundred grand?

I don't even think it's that. Okay.

So, the general I'll tell you the general parameters around prenups. It's not a never and it's not an always. It's if there is a huge discrepancy in net

worth and in income, then it could be wise. And it's really to protect against crazy family versus I don't trust this person and I think it's going south.

Now, in your case, you know, 600,000 you've done very well. And I'm very proud of you. But the incomes are about the same and it's not like you have 5 million and he's in crippling debt. And so, I don't think the variance is so far that I'm like, "Oh, girl, you need to get a prenup yesterday." This is a If you both feel like this is wise and you both feel like this is the move, you can do that.

Well, he's against it.

And why why is that? I'd like to know the heart behind why he's against it.

He just said that, you know, he's never asked me for anything and he feels like

that a prenup is the doorway to saying, you know, we're going to be divorced. And I tried to explain to him that that's not the case that, you know, while we're together as things as we grow financially, we'll both, you know, benefit from what we have and what we grow together. But in the event that something happens, I would like to maintain what I came into the relationship, which would be the

my IRA, my personal savings, and the

rehab and business that I started with the homes. Um but he just says he doesn't he doesn't want to do it. He thinks that a prenup is saying, you know, we're going to get divorced. How old are you guys?

I am 45 and he's 53.

>> [sighs] >> Have you brought this before a counselor or it's just been the two of you talking about it? It's just been the two of us. We only had one conversation.

I kind of left it alone cuz I was [clears throat] like, "Well, I guess we're not getting married." And he was like, "Well, I guess we're not." And I kind of just left it alone cuz I thought it was getting a little heated. I mean, it wasn't a heated conversation, but I could tell it You're at an impasse.

Yeah. So, I didn't I haven't brought it up since, but I really really want it to. >> I'm I'm trying to get underneath this to go how much of this is maybe the shame and baggage and trauma from his divorce and now it's sort of triggering all of that of like, "Well, you think I'm going to go back to that?" And you know, he's sort of having to relive that.

Yeah, I think I don't know if he said that. Yeah, he said that he was young when he got married the first time and I was like, "And that's my point. We're not young anymore." So, you know, I I look at this as a protection instead of a a bad thing, like a safety net instead of a bad thing. But he just he's just against it and I don't know what to do.

Was he Did he have come Did he have fully combined money with his previous He um she They didn't have combined money. He just took care of the household.

willy-nilly do whatever with her money.

I'd love to I'd love for you to explore that more with him cuz it feels like and I don't know, this is just a few minute call with you. >> after 4 minutes. It almost feels like I could see him thinking, "You know what?

I don't want to do that again. I [clears throat] want to be fully combined. I want there to be trust. I don't want to be there this business where I'm over here and she's over there. And then if it goes our separate ways, I'm just left here." I could see I

can see his side of it. I'll be honest, just given the numbers, I would not suggest it for you. I wouldn't say, "Yeah, you need it." Um I can understand your emotion around it. Uh specifically, well, this is his second marriage, you know, is is there a chance that this could happen You know what I mean?

I could see your side of it, too. I think there's a lot of emotion here to work through.

Um and I would say to both of you, if you were both on the line right now, I would just I'm going to just say this cuz this is what I would do. Pray for an open heart, both of you.

And and say, "Let me be open to what they're saying." Because if either of you is coming into this very closed off, it's going to be hard. But if you can pray to be open-minded and have an open heart and really seek to see the other person's heart on this, it's going to it's going to help this come together. And I don't know where it's going to land for you both, but I think that that could not hurt. It won't hurt the process.

Okay. So, I think that was one conversation I would dig deeper and say, "Hey, I don't want to let this stop us from getting married. I love you. I want to spend the rest of my life with you.

I just want to get to a place where we can understand each other." And maybe that means you do get a prenup. Maybe it means you don't get a prenup. But we have to align on this before moving forward. And time is of the essence.

You know, I don't want this to drag on for 3 years of an engagement, will they, won't they >> Right.

And it's also you got to look at the laws. Maybe it's, "Hey, in Texas, only things that were acquired, you know, during the marriage get split." And so, you might go, "Hey, even without the prenup, he's not going to touch my IRA from before we were married." For example. Mhm. Mhm. Got you. So, I'd also get clear on what the the laws are because it may be a moot point. And we fought over nothing. >> Got you. Okay. So, I hope that helps.

>> Yeah, thank you.

Thank you. All righty. Bye, guys. Bye.

Oh, man. Two calls in a row.

Yeah, you know what? I think I'm going to go out on a limb here. With social media, you see a lot more of people's stories. You can see other people's lives, how it pans out.

There's a lot of people telling you a lot and you It's up to us to synthesize that and say, like, "How common in this is this? [clears throat] How real is this? Am I at risk?" And I think we are just open up open up the way >> the edge cases that are crazy.

And so, that's the hard part. And I mean, we the previous call, they were going through some struggles and she was a stay-at-home mom wondering, "Am I protected in the case of a divorce?" And you got one that's on the the post end of that of, "Hey, we found new love, but he's been divorced and I want the prenup to protect what I've built." And that's another part of marriage is, "Are you aligned on the financial values and goals of All right, he's not doing well with money, but I've done really well and therefore I don't want to hitch my wagon." Well, that's that could be a red flag.

Now, I don't that's not their case. He's doing really well. He makes great money.

He just had life happen. But the red flag, going back to that, it matters cuz you and I we've taken tons of these calls and there's always something.

There's that thing that you noticed and you ignored. And in this case, she's been with this guy 4 to 5 years. You know, you can see it. What Are the red flags there? And if they are, listen to them. If they're not there, assume goodwill and assume, "Hey, this is a good guy. Even if it doesn't work out, we'll work it out." Absolutely.

Hey, that's the end of this hour, but remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 26. Debt Always Comes With Strings Attached | September 9, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:08:56 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. The phone number is88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. David is in New Orleans. Hi, David. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I have about $100 to $110,000 extra

that I just don't know how to invest um at the moment. Um I'm not sure whether to put it towards my house uh to pay off

mortgage or to invest in like a money market fund or like a high yield savings account. I'm just not sure what to do with it. >> Good for you. Where'd you get it?

>> Uh just saving. We're very My wife and I are very very frugal. >> Well, way to go, man. Congratulations.

So, we teach a process to become wealthy. The We have proven that it's the shortest path to wealth called the baby steps. Have you ever heard of that?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, baby step one, save $1,000.

You've done that. Two is become debtree.

But the house, I suspect you've done that. >> No, we still have the mortgage at 23. I said except the house is our except the house. >> Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. >> You're debtree. Except the house.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Then baby step three is a fully funded emergency fund which is three to six months of expenses for rainy days.

Do you have that separate from this 110 or is it included in the 110?

>> Yes. Uh that is separate from that.

>> Okay. How much is in that fund?

>> Um I would say between uh I mean we have 20,000 in savings um but we have extra that we can put towards that of up to 80 thou um I would say up to about 50,000.

>> Okay. So you have 50 + 110 plus 20.

>> No, I have more than that in total. We have uh that isn't that's included in the money market fund and everything um besides the stocks that we have which is 450,000 that we don't really touch. Um we have total 217 through all our accounts. >> Okay. So is the stock uh in a retirement account?

>> Um no it's in it's in like dividends.

Uh, so it's it's, you know, fluctuates, but we have a guy that's um that

monitors all of that and and deals with all of that. And so it started off at 300,000 um and now it's at 450.

>> How old are you? >> After uh I am 29, my wife is 30.

>> What kind of income do you all have? Household income.

>> About 150. Well, >> you have done an amazingly good job.

Congratulations. >> David, how much is left on the mortgage?

>> 2 230 you said? >> Uh 232. So, I would write a check today

from your cash that's laying around, non-emergency fund, and a little bit of the stock if you had to, and pay the house off today.

>> The reason why we're not sure about if that's the right decision, >> you called and asked me what you should do. >> We're not We're not sure if we're This isn't our forever home. Like, we're thinking that we will probably move in 10 to 15 years. So, we don't is >> So, that means you need to stay in debt.

Well, I guess. Yeah. I mean,

>> no. When you sell the house, when you sell the house and move, they're going to give you a check >> at the closing. You're not losing the money.

>> Gotcha. >> Okay. So, here's the thing. This is coming from two things. Number one, we know that families that pay off their homes, especially families like you guys, you guys are like super savers.

You're amazing what you've done, man.

Okay. So, I'm all I'm doing is fine-tuning one little thing. Okay. When

we did a study of 10,167 millionaires, the typical model of the typical millionaire that we found was they had a million to $2 million net worth and they had, you know, 7800

900,000 in their 401ks, retirements, and stock investments. And they had a paid for home that was 600 or 7 or $800,000.

and the paid for home. Here's what it does. It gets rid of the cash drain on

your income. You're going to be able to save the house payment. You know how much that house payment, how quick that one house payment is going to be a million dollars in a mutual fund? Oh my god, son. So fast.

>> It's going to blow you away how quick that one move turns into a million dollars. So, uh, and you don't have a house payment. And when you walk out in the backyard and you take your shoes off, the grass feels different.

You don't even understand that you're setting down 300 lb of weight that you've been carrying around. And when you set it down, you're going to breathe deeper like cool mountain air into your lungs. So, that's where I'm going to tell you to go.

>> David, what what causes you to be hesitant about it when you were like, "Well, well, well." And you were backing backing up. What's the What's in your mind? What are you thinking? >> Well, because it's not our forever home.

Um, we you know, we are thinking we're likely going to move in about Butter

home. >> Yeah. Yeah. But do you do understand that you still have the money? It's just in equity. It's in the house versus cash in the bank. So you So to to his point earlier, you get it back out. So that's not really an argument. So do you do you have another one though? Are you wanting to keep these stocks?

>> Well, yeah. So yeah, we definitely going to keep this like as in we're keeping

this, you know, whatever amount that we have in stocks left or keep it in there for long term because it's been growing very well um in there. It's just we just

weren't sure if that makes the most sense because of course we've talked to the financial advisors at

I'm also not naive

what's best for the bank as well. I know that so that's why I'm calling into the show. I I want to get >> the pers that's in our best interest not necessarily the best banks.

>> The thing that I the thing that I didn't understand when I first started doing this David and you're a ma you're a wonderful saver. So you're a math nerd like me. I thought this was all a math equation. It's also a psychological, spiritual, emotional, relational equation. When you don't have a house payment, it changes stuff you didn't even know was stopped up. It's weird how

it unleashes you. Your creativity, your

the just you and your spouse walk in. My my my wife and I went for a ride in a little I've got a 1960 convertible. We went for a ride in it last night. We pulled back up front of the house and we both said, "That's a good house."

And it wasn't like a bragging thing. It wasn't like flex thing. It was just me and her. Two two old people in the old car. I mean, come on. You know, I mean, but we're just looking at the house going >> and you wouldn't have felt that if there was a mortgage is what you're saying. Like there's a >> Well, I mean it cuz you don't own it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It changes. You might have said that it's a good house, but you would have said it with a different >> even a tone. Even it changes your tone of voice. I mean, it's hard to grasp all of this stuff until you actually do it.

Here's my challenge for you. Pay off the house. >> And if you hate being debtree, you can go get you another mortgage.

And I've never had any, it's the only piece of advice we give on this show that I've never had anybody call and give me hate mail for after they do it.

Now, all these people that have theories give me hate mail, but they're broke people with theories. I I don't care about their hate mail. That doesn't We burn that. That's good kindling. But the uh but we really don't get I mean I've been doing this for almost 40 years y'all. The number of people that call me back and said, "Dave, you told me to pay off my house. I hate you. You're awful." Is zero.

Zero.

And it's the one debt no one ever goes back into. Like we will talk to people on the show like we were debtree but now we have $15,000 of credit card debt.

Like what? What? Why' y'all do that? Or we were debtree but we now have a car loan. Why do you know? Like we'll get those every now and then. Yeah. But we've never had >> hardly ever. Once you get the mortgage gone, you're like, golly. Oh my.

>> I just was so stressed when we didn't have a mortgage payment. And so I was like, I we got to go back and get one. Let's just go back and borrow on the house so we can invest and do all of this. I'd rather have that. >> I can't stand being debtree. It's killing me. >> Nobody ever says that, guys. Nobody. Do it. You're 29. Give it a try. If we're wrong, you can go back in debt.

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>> Christina is in South Carolina. Hi, Christina. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Good. How can we help? So, my husband and I have been having this real issue lately. Um, he believes that he can

spend the money any way he wants because he earns it because he works for it. And because I stay at home, I I can't spend it because the luxuries of being at home with our son, like the power and the water are my little luxury that I get.

So, he can go spend it on snacks, he can go spend it on drinks, he can do whatever he wants with it, but I'm not allowed to do the same. >> How old is this little boy?

He is 25.

>> How long have you guys been married?

>> We've been married for over a year.

>> How many kids do y'all have?

>> We have one. >> Okay.

>> Um, >> it's a very dysfunctional marriage, Christina.

>> Yes, I have been told that um >> Good. I should we just let him deal with

the finances because he's Whoever told you that's as dysfunctional as he is.

Who told you that? His mother.

>> No, that was him. He said that. >> Oh, he told you that. Okay. I bet he did. I bet he did.

>> Little twerp.

>> Um Oh my gosh. So, um

you're you're dealing with a child.

That's the problem. Yeah. I And I mean I

I try to save money where I can grocery

that's not that's not the point.

>> Okay. Let me back up and tell you the way this should be and then we can put that against where it is. Okay. The way it should be is when you are married, regardless of where the income comes from, we have an income. We both have a

vote on where every one of those dollars

goes. My wife has not worked outside the home in about 40 years.

She has a incredible income

[Music] because we have an incred cuz we have an

incredible income. Okay? And she gets to

decide with me what we will do with our

income. Are you hearing these words clearly? None of that's happening here.

Just because I earn the income at at

Ramsay and with the things I do in my life and she doesn't have an earned income personally does not invalidate her power or her right to a vote inside

the household. She has the same exact

rights as I do. Not only morally and

spiritually, but legally she does. And

if he if he thinks he's in control of his income, let me teach him what a divorce attorney will teach him. He's not in control of his income. They're going to take a big old chunk of it and give it to you and the kid to take care of the kid. So, he really does not have as much power as he thinks he has in the law, much less morally. And he's relationally bankrupt. You treat your wife this way, you won't have a wife long.

>> Cuz honey, you may put up with this for a while, but you're going to wake up in a few years and go, I'm done with you

being a jerk >> and treating me like a secondass citizen. I'd like him to stay home with a kid. Let me tell you, Christina, it's much easier being in a workplace with a bunch of adults than being home all day. It's exhausting. It's absolutely exhausting. You work harder than he does.

>> I can't I think that he does he he's a hard worker. Christina, that's not what I'm saying. Christina, it's not that. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying the value you bring to the household is as important, if not arguably maybe more important. You're raising human beings in this household full-time. And so the fact that financially, from a numbers perspective, he has and wants full

control and treating you like a secondass citizen is not okay.

>> This is not okay. You have a dysfunctional marriage. You guys, I I really think this guy needs more than I can give him on this call. Uh if I had him on the call, I could box his ears, but it wouldn't last. Okay. Um but the

uh what you guys desperately need is to get involved in a good strong local church. >> A church that is healthy and doesn't >> a healthy church that isn't supporting his I mean you get >> so but I mean you get you get a church that that lovingly will teach you exactly what we taught you and get some men in his life to teach this little boy how to be a man. Cuz masculinity that's true and not toxic is serviceoriented.

He serves his wife. He serves his kid.

>> And and that's what he should be doing.

And he's doing the opposite of that. You guys desperately need marriage counseling, honey. Desperately. We can't fix him on this call. It's too You have

You're too messed up.

This is just a mess. And And

but what I do want to do for you is to confirm that you're not the crazy one.

Okay? You're the feelings that you're having that this is improper are accurate feelings. They're accurate observations, logical observations. And these are two people sitting completely outside of there. Rachel's marriage does not run this way. My marriage does not run this way. And both of them have a lot more control. >> Any good therapist, marriage therapist would say, it's not run that way.

>> That's not that that that it's a that is a complete level of control and can

start to be in the in the sense that you don't even have the ability to access the money, which then becomes another huge problem. And so it's it's not okay,

Christina. It's not okay. And I didn't like this guy earns a lot of money either. >> He's a big deal on nothing.

>> So, um, this just Yeah, there's so much immaturity here.

>> Sounds like about a 14-year-old boy.

>> Well, and the reason to press into this, Christina, and why it's worth the fight is not only from the financial perspective, getting that cleaned up, but also that mindset doesn't just stay in the money lane of your marriage. that mindset and what he believes about you and your value and what you're capable of starts to bleed into every other part. And so it's not just a one-off thing. This is his character and who he is and how he views you.

And that's the problem I have.

Don't do that to her.

That's not fair.

If your baby is a son, you're teaching him how he's supposed to treat women by accepting the way that you're being treated. Don't do that. That's not fair.

So, you guys are horrible parents because you're modeling out a dysfunctional thing before this brand new baby right now. And so, you've got to work on this, kiddo. You got to go get some help. And you got to demand it.

And we're going to go get some help. I'm going whether you're going or not. And if you don't go, then I may go.

because I'm not going to put up with this. >> And that that's that's where you're going to end up. And I will tell you this, I've coached families on money for 30 or 40 years now. And I I you know, I

don't like stereotypes much, but I see this more often with ladies than I do men. Like 98% of the time, this is a lady. They will put up with stuff for so long and then I don't know what it is in the female psyche, but once that switch

flips once you're done, there'll be

nothing he can do to get you back cuz you will be done. Guys will come back around, but a lady that's just fed up, fed up, fed up, and finally switch flips, they are done. And you can't reel

them back in. I've tried, I've sent them to marriage counseling, I begged them to give him another chance and everything else, and they're like, "Nope, I've had it with this guy. I'm done." and you can't get them back. And that's going to happen to you, kiddo.

It's going to build up, build up, build up, and the switch is going to flip. And this whole thing is going to be over. And if you sound like sweet and naive, and you are right now, but it'll it'll get you'll get over it.

So, you guys need to desperately get some help for your dysfunctional, screwed up marriage because your husband's view is dysfunctional and screwed up. I hope I wasn't unclear.

Hope it's all here. And we have a couple that's on their honeymoon in the lobby.

So, there's your marriage advice.

>> They're going, "Oh, God. Oh, God.

>> To be me." No, no, >> no. I don't think they're that way. >> I know. I know. I know. >> I can already tell they're not that way. >> I just Yeah. You could tell just taking one picture with >> Well, what it is though is, and we say it on the show all the time, majority of relational calls that we get are >> is rarely Well, rarely about the money.

So, she calls in and says, "Well, he says I can't have any say and that my What did she say? her privilege was electricity and food or what?

>> No, that was her luxury. >> Oh my gosh. So, like >> you get >> but but but I need money is how it's presented, but it's like no, dear God, do you need a new marriage? Like it's a it's a marriage issue.

So, whenever those things start bubbling up majority of the time with couples and I would say in our marriage, probably with you and mom too, like when there's a money thing that flares up, usually a deeper rooted thing is something is happening. >> Yeah. Money problems, money problems are not the problem.

And that's the case here, too. There's a power struggle going on here, and you've been losing the power struggle.

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If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. There's new trainings every month this every week this month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. Rachel Cruz or George Camel or Jade Wshaw will be in there helping you out. going to show you how to stick to a budget and find thousands of dollars worth of margin using every dollar so you not only get out of debt but you start building wealth and uh you can ask any question during the live Q&A.

A lot easier to get a question in there than it is on the show. Hard to get on there. We we sorry for that but there's only four lines. We only get so many people and it's a lot of busy signals when you call here but uh you can get in there.

Free every dollar trainings with the Ramsey personalities. Dylan's in San Francisco. Hi Dylan. How are you?

>> I'm doing great. Um excited to be on the show. >> Thank you, sir. >> Um so my my question is my wife and I

have a bunch of debt. Um about $2.3

million worth of debt. Um but it's all really low interest rate debt. Um, and I'm wondering if we should be trying to

pay it off as quickly as possible or since we can make more in a high yield savings or in the market, should we sort of take our time and paying off this debt? >> What What is it owed on?

>> So, 2 million on the primary residence

at 2.4% on a 30-year fixed.

>> Mhm. Um, we have a rental residence which has about a quarter million um at

3%, 80,000 in student loans at 1.6%.

>> And then a car loan of about 40,000 at

4%. >> And what's your household income?

>> About 1.5 million, but that's new. It's

>> Congratulations. >> Gone up a lot. Yeah, man.

>> It's gone up a lot. >> You're doing wonderful. What do you do for a living?

I'm a lawyer, as is my wife.

>> Okay, >> good. >> Well, here here's the the thing.

>> Well, real quick, Dylan, do you love it?

Do you love having 2.5 million? Like, are you good?

>> I'm okay with it. So, our our our net worth is like 5.2. So, I feel like it's

it's manageable. I want to have no debt,

but I part of me feels like it's kind of

backwards to >> pay down two and a half% debt when you could earn 4% in a savings account.

>> Okay. All right. It's a good question. Valid question. All right. So, um

here's the thing. The the thing that we

forget that no one talks about and no one teaches is debt equals more equals

risk. More debt equals more risk.

Huge amounts of debt equals huge amounts

of risk. Huge amounts of debt as a percentage of your net worth equals huge amounts of risk. Let me illustrate. Okay, you said you had a $5 million net worth. What if you had a $5.5 million worth of debt at 1%.

You would see you would feel that risk instantly because your net worth is not enough to cover. You have negative net worth. You follow me, >> right? And so even though the interest rate was great, you felt the risk increase when I just gave you the example, didn't you?

>> I did. That would stress me out.

>> Yeah. And and so that that's that's illustrates accurately that debt equals risk because you can literally feel it in your physical body and you didn't even do it. You just talked about it and your body start going, you know, and so that that that that's your risk m meter is measuring that. You're feeling that.

So what is left out of your calculation

of I can borrow this money at 2% and I can invest it at four. I'm making a 2% spread or 2 and a half% spread or whatever it is. What's left out of that is you've not calculated mathematically for the risk.

>> Okay? >> And there is actually formulas to do that in graduate level finance. Um, if

you're comparing a risky mutual fund with a not so risky mutual fund, we measure the volatility of the fund with

a statistical measure of the height and

distance to the valley of the you think the the wavy line that represents the returns. You know what I'm talking about? >> Mhm. >> If it's a real tall wavy line and a real

steep wavy line, that's a risky one. You know what I'm saying? Versus a real smooth one would not be risky. The measure of that mathematically is called a beta in statistics.

And you can actually use a beta to adjust the two to adjust the high risk versus the low-risk mutual fund and compare them apples to apples. The reason I'm bringing all that up is there's actually it's actually a thing until you talk about debt and nobody does it with debt except me. And we started doing it with debt a long time ago to say more debt equals more risk.

you're taking using a thing called a beta and you would see that there's actually no perceived value after adjusted for risk. And so you're kidding yourself is the mathematically is the point. You're not really making the spread because the math formula that you're using is naive. It left out the risk. So you're not being a simpleton at all when you pay off the debt. As a contra on the contrary, you're very sophisticated when you choose to pay off the debt. making this wonderful income you guys have just found yourself in and you're extremely successful lawyers.

Thank you. I'm so glad for you. I'm happy for you. I want you to win. So, the other thing you ask yourself is uh if you extrapolate these things out way into the future, where do you want to be? >> Um you're how old? 29 maybe.

>> I'm 48. >> 48. >> Okay. Wow. Okay. >> Yeah. You sound youthful, Dylan. That's why. Um All right. Well, so when you're 68, when you're 68, do you want a $50

million net worth with a $25 million

debt load?

>> All I want is >> No, I mean, I mean, >> if you I I don't want to extrapolate this out >> because >> I don't want to 10x this if I'm you.

>> And if you don't stop it, you're going to 10x it.

>> And the only reason you would stop it is you decided it's not good. I decided I

want to be free. I decided I even though there's a little bit I might make a little money but adjusted for risk, I'm not really over the scope of time making a ton of money and it's not worth it. I

can choose pick and choose my cases differently. I can grow my law career even more exponentially. Uh if I have

zero things riding around on my shoulder when I'm making these choices. And so I'm going to encourage you to work toward I don't think it's an emergency. I don't think you're bankrupt. I don't think you're stupid. I don't think any of that. But it's it's almost a philosophical discussion in a sense that we're having. Um it is a math discussion and the math I pointed out is wrong. But

it's not it's not going to cause you harm. You can out earn this level of

mistake. It's not that big a deal. But I wouldn't set out to say as my net worth grows, I'm going to grow my debt. And if I'm not willing to grow my debt as my net worth grows, then must be because I don't think the debt's good.

And so since I don't want to 10x it, why would I keep it? Anything that's great, I want to 10x.

Anything that's not, I'd love for you to 10x your income. I don't see anything wrong with that. That'd be cool. I' wouldn't wouldn't call you out. Wouldn't say you're doing something wrong to do that. And so, um, yeah, that that that

that helps me. I I but you are hanging

out with some very um sophisticated people >> who are not very sophisticated with their mathematics if they're making you feel like a simpleton for paying off your debt. Cuz I just walked you through a fairly sophisticated formula >> that you probably never heard before. I suspect I told it to a bunch of MBAs in a college thing the other day and they looked at me like I had invented fire.

And so um but the uh uh so that it's

it's that's how it works. I would pay it off, but I wouldn't be in an I wouldn't be breaking my back to pay it off. I You make a million half dollars, have a car payment, it's ludicrous. It's ludicrous.

>> Yeah, especially the consumer stuff. I'd get that done. I'd get rid of that. That stupid student loan and that car payment. I'd pay that off in about the next two months. But we could make the argument about the rental house and the house a little bit more cogently.

>> Uh but you'd still lose the argument.

Counselor

>> session is a jerk. >> I'm so proud of you, man. You're just killing it. I'm just so happy for you that you're making all that money >> cuz you work so hard to get there.

>> Well, and the other part, and we talked about this in an earlier call, but the the humanity of money, it is not just about the math. There is a level of peace and security and autonomy that you get when you just own everything. I mean, it is like there's just something there. And so, um, that element will not be in a formula or, you know, but it will be at night when you go to sleep and everything's owned and there's just a level of peace and there's not really a price on that.

Like there's something there that's very real and you can outchase and out earn the interest rates here and there, whatever. That can be the game you play. But, um, as Dr. John Deloney says, solve for peace.

Have peace in your life. We live too much of a stressful life. You have a stressful job, Dylan. You know, just eliminate some stress.

Feel free. have autonomy over your life and money and those choices. >> Yep.

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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[Music]

>> Mike's in California. Hey, Mike. How are you?

>> I'm doing great. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Love it. Um, I just have a quick question to cut to the chase. Uh, I had to take out a loan that I didn't want to take out because of some damage to a home I just uh purchased. I have we're

currently uh in a in a lawsuit to get that money back. So, do I pay it off Gazelle intense the Ramsay way? Uh, or

do I since I I stand to make this money back, do I use my margin to not miss out on compound growth? Uh, no. You pay it

off as quick as you can cuz when you get the money later, you'll have the money later. But until then, you you'll have the debt whether you win the lawsuit or not.

>> Yeah. >> So, we need to get rid of the debt. And they're independent of each other. Having the debt doesn't make you have a stronger case for the lawsuit. The lawsuit will be answered on its merits only.

>> Heard. >> So, yeah, I'd be I'd be done with it.

I'd be done with that debt as fast as I possibly could. I'm sorry you're going through that, though. That's a really uh there's nothing worse than a home being broken except a home being broken and a lawsuit. These are two of the worst things you can go through. Just awful.

I'm so sorry. Wow. Wow. Josh is in

Illinois. Hey Josh, what's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> All right, so I had a quick question.

Um, so I live with my two younger

brothers and one of them works full-time

and he, you know, fully does his part and another one works just barely enough to just barely cover his his part of bills. >> How old are these people? >> And I'm looking So the one that's barely

working is 20 and the one that is working is 23. >> And you're how old?

>> 25. >> Okay. So, you have one lame roommate, one good roommate, both of which happen to be brothers.

>> Yes, my brothers, unfortunately.

>> All right.

So, I am currently working on paying off

the last bit of debt that I have. And I was considering moving out at the beginning of next year, but I have this like weird sense of like guilt if they're going to be able to survive because the one brother would probably end up still staying with the younger brother and the younger brother, I don't know if that he's going to be able to drag his weight. So, I feel like I kind of have to stay. And I was also thinking of staying anyways because I'm still working on paying off a car that I purchased a couple years ago.

>> Um, partially, but also I have a girlfriend of two and a half years and sometime within the next two years I want to within the next year or two I want to propose and get married and then, you know, of course live with her.

>> Okay. Where would you would you just go rent somewhere else? Is that what you were thinking in the meantime?

>> Yeah, most most likely.

>> Do you think you can find something cheaper?

>> Cheaper? I I doubt it. Okay.

>> What do you make?

>> I make 57,000 a year.

>> Okay. All right. Um

Okay. You you make the decisions

uh uh and you give them enough notice

and you make the decisions based on what is the right thing to do. Uh propping up

someone who will not work is not ever the right thing to do. That's enabling misbehavior.

>> Okay. >> That's what I was saying. And so I, you know, you can you can love someone who misbehaves, but you don't have to love their misbehavior.

Okay? Like you can love your little brother, but you don't have to love his laziness, >> right? And so, uh, I would just tell them, "Hey guys, um, this worked for a while. We were a couple of, we're three young guys coming out of the house. We did it together. It worked for a while.

And I'm ready because of this dating relationship. I'm going to start talking about moving out. And I'm giving you like four, five months notice here that that's what's going to happen. And so you guys need to start making plans to be able to move somewhere else or to make up the difference with me being gone or to find another roommate to replace me. Um or whatever it is y'all

want to do. But then what they choose to do with that knowledge is on them, not you.

>> So that that removes all guilt.

Okay. All I can do is present to someone what the situation is. How they react to

it is their decision.

>> Now, Josh, there's not a contract that you guys sign that you'd be breaking in any way, right?

>> No. Our lease ends in I believe the beginning of February. So, >> Okay. Is that when you would move out then?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. That's great. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I would I would tell your brothers I'd tell your brothers over dinner and then I would tell and then I would send an email to the landlord and copy your brothers >> that I'm making plans to leave in February. My brothers will let you know what their plans are, but I will not be here after the lease expires.

I want to let everybody know that and just and give everybody plenty of notice. The landlord knows what's going on. But that also uh gives your little brother gives your brothers a little shock to the system. It's like this is really happening.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't send them emails. That's why I said have dinner with them. >> Have dinner with them and tell them what's going on. >> Okay. >> Check their Gmail and they're like, >> and listen, Josh, don't make this about them. >> This is just what you're doing. >> Yeah. >> This is what I'm doing. >> I just want to let you know what I'm doing. I love you guys and it was fun for a while and now I'm going to go do this and um you know that that's it's

not it's not a it's not you, it's me.

And so, you know, right?

>> So, when it comes to, you know, making this about me, I was considering staying with them because I currently have about $23,000 in debt. It's a car loan.

>> Well, sell it. >> I've See, I've looked into that and I

got it back in 2022 when stuff was super expensive. Kelly Blue Book puts it at >> at most I'm thinking maybe 9,300.

>> Okay. Well, you're pretty stuck. You probably need some extra jobs.

>> I'd work my tail off and get some extra jobs this weekend. >> Yeah. Yeah. just have at it and tear tear into that thing, but I don't think that's a reason to stay. I think you can pay off that car or get rid of that car problem, whatever it is you do with it, whether you're there or not. >> Yeah, but I also heard him say the

little brother is paying. He's barely making the bills is what he said, but he's doing it. So, if it's a situation where you have cheap rent and it's not like affecting the I don't know. I don't know if there's like a reason to >> to get out. Now, if he stops paying and then you have to pick up his slack, then that's that's one issue >> that that's what's happening. Um that we don't exit if everybody's bills being paid. He's not that's he he's it's time

to go, man. It's time to go. Time to go.

Open phones at8255225.

You got to be real careful with um the

uh here's the thing. I I've learned it

the hard way on the show answering these questions for 30 years and also in my personal life that um

the better angels in all of us, the nicer parts of all of us all have the

ability to enable.

We all have the ability to want to make everything okay for someone else. And

sometimes we want it more for them than they do. And that's when enabling happens. Enabling is never good.

Enablers are always when I'm talking to one, they're always the nicest people.

They're just the sweetest people. They just want everybody to be happy and they're just h helpful and but it they they took their sweetness to a toxic level and and ended up giving a drunk a drink. Yeah, the drunk's really happy, but you just gave a drunk a drink. You just said, "Hey, here's some Jack Daniels, buddy." And you know, I mean, just, you know, and so if you're covering for your little brother who's not working much >> and >> Well, I agree if he wasn't paying the bills.

The >> pattern is there. That's fair. Fair >> that there's going to be a problem. I can >> Would you pay an extra $500 in rent somewhere or like would you up the rent to move out? is going to have to of some kind. But I think he's got to get in a functional situation if he wants to enter a functional relationship with a young lady. Yeah. Instead of hanging on

back here cleaning up behind him all the time. And so there's there's some there's some gain there. Yeah. And I think it's going to be the best the best thing for the person that you're enabling >> is when you stop.

>> It's really good for them. Um, it's like I love you too much to participate in your crazy >> I am no longer signing up for the trip to crazy land. You taking a trip by yourself and you just got to you got to talk this through, man. And just go, I love you and no way. No, no, you go do

that stuff by yourself. I don't do that.

And I'm not going to help you do it and I'm not going to finance it while you do it. child of mine, uh, parent of mine,

uncle of mine, little brother of mine, whatever it is.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay host, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Robert is in Florida. Hey, Robert. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I am calling because um my wife and I

recently went to Montana for a couple weeks. Um first time we've ever really experienced the country other than the East Coast. And uh we're close to retirement and now we're considering buying a motor coach and spending 2

years uh you know we're still having a home base but two years going on long trips and seeing national parks and and

you know it it's just something that's in our gut that we want to do but I know

how you feel about things with motors and wheels and you know things of that nature. So, considering our net worth,

do you think, you know, we should do this or do you think we've lost our minds? >> Well, what's your net worth?

>> Um, right around 3 million.

>> Okay. All right. So, what would you spend for the bus?

>> Probably 200,000.

>> Okay. So, there's couple way couple ways to look at it. >> One is you say, "Okay, um, did when you just did this other trip, did you take a coach or did you just drive the car?" >> No. No. No. We flew out there and uh we

we bounced around, you know, looked and we went to Glacier National and a couple other, you know, really beautiful places. >> Beautiful. Yeah, that's cool. Good. Good trip. Okay, so um the answer is yes, you

can afford it. Okay, and the way I determine that is this. I use the burn the middle burn the money in the middle of the floor analogy. Okay. So, if I take $200,000 and I burn it in the middle of the floor or I throw it out the window of the car on the interstate just to watch the traffic swerve.

>> Okay.

>> Does that change my life if I have $3 million? No.

>> Right. >> So, if this is the worst possible decision ever, your life is still okay.

>> So, the answer is yes, you can afford it. But then I'll give you some suggestions on things that Sharon and I have experienced. Um the a correlation

might be a second home. Okay. You go we

have friends that go to the beach >> and while they're staying at the beach they go, "I've always wanted a house on the beach, a condo on the beach." Okay.

>> Yeah. >> And and it sparks their interest just like yours has sparked on this.

>> They've never had a house that was a second home and they've never lived on the beach. They stayed there two weeks.

>> Yeah. >> So, what I suggest to them is before you spend $2 million on a beach house, why

don't you just go rent one for 5 months and live there and see if it's all it's cut out to be?

They came home and didn't like it and were glad they didn't purchase. So, the correlation here might be, uh, why don't you rent a motor coach for a month

>> for 20 grand?

for 20 grand >> and let's burn 20 grand up before we burn 200 grand up and make sure it's as much as romantic and as much of a thing as you think it is.

>> It might be and it might not be.

>> You might be I prefer to fly in private

>> charter and rent an SUV than I do drive

with all these yahoos.

>> You might decide that, >> right? >> And about the same amount of money by the way.

>> There you go. I know it's I I know I'm not gonna come out of this, you know, on top as far as money goes.

>> No, you're gonna lose the money.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, absolutely. This is gonna >> But it's what you'll enjoy, Robert. So, one couple doesn't like the beach. Well, we know plenty of couples that do and have and have a house.

>> Go try it and if they had liked it, then buy the house, right? If you like the motor coach after renting it for a month, go do that. But I mean, the number of guys that buy a motorcycle and it sits in the garage 24/7 and they drive it twice a year and they thought they were going to go on all these trips and stuff is a bunch.

>> Okay. Yeah. And you could have rented a stupid motorcycle for the weekend and had the best motorcycle on the planet and gone and done rode through the fall leaves or whatever it is you want to do, right? It's okay.

Go do that stuff. But I'm just saying uh try it before you buy it is what I would do. I'd invest a little bit of money in that. Sharon and I actually did that on a second home area that we did.

We rented a home for 30 days and looked at other homes in the neighborhood while we were there and we loved it and ended up buying a second home in that neighborhood. >> Mhm. >> And but we by that time we had been there 30 days. We knew everything about all the ups, downs, sideways.

when you own another vehicle, you got one more thing that breaks all the time. >> I was going to say that's the other thing is the maintenance >> breaks all the time. It just and you got insurance. It's just a the more crap you own, the more repairmen you have to know. Houses, cars, all that stuff. So, >> more money, more problems.

>> More more money, more problem. That's it. Yeah, that's it. So, no, I mean, I I want you to try it out. I want you to go do it. You can afford it is the answer to your question. >> But before you turn this one weekend trip into this $200,000 decision, >> I would baby step into it. No pun intended. >> That's exciting, Robert. Yeah. >> From the way you were talking, I think you and your wife, I think this will be the retirement.

I think they're going to like it. >> I think they'll like it. Yeah. >> There you go. There you go. That's the thing. So now if Well,

Mark isn't Mark. I'm just I'm not going Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Mark.

>> Hey there. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure, man. What's up?

>> So, I'm at this crossroads. I'm 57 years old. I've been trying to do the baby steps. I'm all out of whack as far as the order, I'm sure. But sort of where I find myself is I'm looking at potentially work changing a little bit for me in the next say by the end of the year or me changing myself. So basically

where I am financially I'm trying to figure out I think I know the answer is I've got about 310,000 saved owe about

240 on my house. I have about 450 in IRA

and I was debating on should I try to play catchup a little bit before this potential change happens as far as my income >> or should I just pay the house off, be done with that, >> pay the house off >> and move on.

>> I pay the house off by nightfall.

>> I wouldn't have that money in the bank and have a mortgage. >> You borrowed on your home to have money in the bank, >> right? Net was at.

>> Yeah. Net net. So, what are you talking about change? You're going to make less income.

>> Yeah. Why? >> Like right now between my wife and I. >> I'm sorry. >> Why?

>> Uh just potential work downturn in work

right now. >> What field are you? >> I mean I uh advertising.

>> Okay.

>> So I and the other thing is I'm also looking at as I may want to just change my life as well. In other words, not keep pursuing that, but try to do something that has a little bit more impact and uh gives back a little bit more. So, I'd be maybe talking about just a life change in general versus pursuing that. >> Okay. Well, you would be a lot more free to do that if you didn't have Al payment.

>> I mean, that's kind of what I was thinking. >> Yeah. You read Halime by Buford?

>> I'm sorry. >> Have you read a book called Halime by Bob Buford?

>> No, I have not. You got to pick it up and read it. You're describing it.

>> The second part part of your life. >> Yeah. You It's the Yeah. First half, back half, particularly with males, they spend the first half of our life in acquisition. The second half searching for significance.

>> That's sort of where it matter. I've done a lot of things to help a lot of people in advertising world pursue what they wanted to do. And now I'm sort of like I I don't feel like I've given back as much as I'd like to give back and actually make an impact. You know what I mean? on things in a positive way.

>> Yeah, I agree. I I think that's cool. I think it's good and and you need to pursue those issues and take them to ground either whether you do it inside your career or with a separate career.

Um either one's fine with me. Yeah. Pick that book up. You'll like it. It's called Halime by Bob Buford. It's a really It's an old book, but it's a great book.

[Music]

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[Music]

Michelle is in Florida. Hi, Michelle.

How are you?

>> I'm doing all right. How are you all?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm calling for your advice today.

Um, I lost my husband about six months ago. >> I'm sorry. >> Um, thank you. >> How long How long were you married?

>> Almost 30 years. >> Wow. Okay.

So, um, he was just like a couple year.

We could have retired, but he wanted to work for a couple more years. And we have two homes. They're both paid for.

Um, one is in Florida and one is in Utah. And our plan initially was to go back and forth between the homes, but now that he's passed, I'm just I'm calling to kind of like, what would Dave do? Um, financially, I'm just wondering

if you think it would be better if I sold one of the homes or both the homes or um, and you know, diversify and invest that money or in the long run, what would be best financially for me?

>> Well, well, I mean, um,

why would you keep both of them?

Well, I was thinking that um mostly for

investment like one I would live in and then the other >> So, where are you planning to live?

>> Something >> I'm not I'm not sure yet. I I kind of vacasillate. I would like to go out to Utah, I think. But my job is here in Florida. My friends are here in Florida,

>> but I would like in in Utah.

>> I do, but they're grown. The last one launched this year. And >> where are they?

Uh, three of them are in California and one is in Georgia.

>> Okay. Do you have grandkids?

>> Uh, no. >> Okay. >> Not yet. >> Okay. But the potential would be California, it sounds like mainly. Okay.

>> Yes. Yes. >> All right. So, you're you're you're how old?

>> I'm 55.

>> Okay. And your life is currently centered in Florida.

>> It is. >> So, what would what's the draw to Utah again?

I just like it out west. I like the mountains and >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> Yeah, I like >> And they're both paid for. Did he have life insurance, Michelle?

>> He He did. He I mean, honestly, he left me in a really really good situation. I have choices. So, I I have about uh you

know, I have over a million in like Roth IRA and a 401k and I have about 600,000

just sitting in a high yield savings account right now that I'm trying to figure out what to do with. >> Okay. >> Okay. I would I would only want to own a home where I'm going to do life unless I

was going to actively use something as a second home. And I don't I like the

mountains is not I actively use Utah as a second home. Is this like Park City or

>> it's south of No, it's it's south of Salt Lake. Um >> but in the mountains or is it just in a suburbs? >> It's it's in the Wasach. It's in the suburbs. It's in the like the Wasach Valley area like I have for my house.

>> It's a beautiful area. Okay. Um, and

>> yeah, another way to ask this sometimes is I reverse engineer it in my own head.

Would I do it if I if I didn't have a house in Utah today and I'm a a six-month widowed

and I've got my life centered in Florida. I like Utah and I like the mountains. Would I go buy a house there or would I just go up there and stay some?

>> I don't hear house in this.

>> Okay. I hear visits.

>> Yes, it is visits right now because we were both still working. >> Yeah. And you're still working. I mean, you're not shutting your life down in Florida.

>> No. Well, >> I guess you could. You probably have enough money to retire.

But you're probably not going to go to Utah where you don't have any connections and sit around all day.

>> No. >> That's weird. >> Not wise. >> That would be lonely. I guess I guess I was wondering cuz my house is worth so much more here in Florida and I thought maybe that wasn't wise either.

>> No, I think you're fine. What's it worth? What's the one in Florida worth?

>> About 1.5 or 1.6.

>> You're fine. It's not >> Okay. >> It's still It's still not >> And it's paid for. >> It's paid for. >> It is. >> And the house. Yeah. I I I I I don't think you're going to get the incremental joy and use out of the Utah house with with him in heaven that you were going to have before. But I do think you still love the mountains and you'll probably go up there and visit some and do some vacationing there.

>> But you're probably not going to and you don't want to rent it.

>> That would be a horrible idea.

>> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. renting something halfway across the country is really you would never say you never say I'm sitting in Florida and I'm going to go buy a rental house in Utah.

>> That just that wouldn't be logical. You would want to buy a rental house in the area where you are if you want to own real estate but um I mean there's no

rush as you said you've been left in a wonderful condition and if you want to take some time and pray about it it's only 6 months you could you can take some more time if you want. I would not rent it. I would only keep it if you feel like you're going to get enough use of it to justify owning it and

maintaining it and paying the insurance and the taxes, which is probably going to be 100,000 plus a year,

>> utilities, maintenance, um taxes, property taxes, uh and uh so

forth, and you know, making sure everything's taken care of just for it to sit there to be there when you want to go visit. And I I really think you could go, you know, to the montage at Deer Valley and stay for a long time for 100 grand, >> right? That makes, >> you know, >> that's why I called you. >> Yeah. And I but but I I also I'm fine

with 30 years of marriage and your your life just got changed. And if you take a minute and cry and think about it, I'm okay with that, too.

>> Okay. >> But please don't rent it. Please don't rent it. you you you'll hurt your own feelings if you rent it cuz your dream is going to have renters living in it.

Your old dream that's dead now >> and and it's going to have renters and you're not going to like that emotionally. Don't do that. Don't do that to yourself. So, sell the house before you rent it. But I think you're going to I think you're going to sell it and you're going to enjoy the money in other ways doing some other stuff.

>> Yeah. Put it towards um the travel end

of it versus owning it. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can just you can move about the country >> as the commercial says. Yeah. Yeah.

That's um Wow. >> I'm sorry, Michelle, though. That's hard. >> It changes everything. >> Well, and it's probably a level of letting go of kind of what you said of of what Yeah. of what it's supposed to be. So, there's like a little bit of that grief. >> It wasn't supposed to be this way. We were supposed to finish up working and get to go to Utah, you know, and >> it'll be a sad selling for sure.

>> Yeah. It's It's >> And it's not even um from like a

touristy standpoint, you know what I mean? Like you wouldn't even want a VBO like not even like longterm or short-term rentals. Oo,

>> you cringe. Wow. >> VBO. Yeah. No, that's >> or V ver Verbbo, I think. >> I know, but we're talking about we're talking about serious amount of maintenance now. >> Mhm. >> You're now running a hotel. That's different than renters. That's another step up of Yeah, that's Oh, man. Now

you're buying sheets. Yeah, this is Oh, gross. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. All right, Dean is in Pittsburgh.

Hey, Dean. What's up?

>> Hey, Dave. Um, how are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> So, I got myself in kind of a bad situation here. I um I had an ex- fiance

and I co-signed a car refinance

uh when we were going to get married. She had over a 25% APR on her car. She

was drowning in the amount of interest she was paying. So, I co-signed it, got it down to a 7% 5-year loan, and

suddenly she stopped paying for it.

>> Shocking. Uh, she isn't. Yeah, she's not

um not being cooperative with me or the bank. >> So, wait a minute. Do you you don't have any ownership on the car, right?

>> None at all. None at all, sir. >> Okay. All right.

Uh, how much is how much is owed on this car that she's going to get repoed on you?

>> Uh, about $7,000. And it's a 2013 Kia

Soul. It's probably not worth more than a thousand. And I think they'd be very lucky to get 500. Okay. All right.

Um, I got really bad news, dude. You

can't The amount of money is not worth suing her over. You're going to lose

some money here after they repo it, and you're going to get your credit tagged after they repo it. >> And you're going to end up writing the bank a check for three or $4,000 to get your name out of this mess before it's over. You could start on that now if you wanted to, offering them three or 4,000 to release you and let them go after her. But good luck with all that. When I

do something stupid and it costs me money, man, I call it stupid tax. So when you write this check in the four column, write stupid tax.

[Music]

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Guys, if you like what you're hearing around here, please click the share button, the follow button, the subscribe button. Let people know we're here. Tell people about the show. Spread the word for spread the love. You are our marketing plan. We appreciate it. Guys, if you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on? How would they pay the mortgage? How would they afford groceries?

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or click the link in the description and we'll help you out. Josh is in Pennsylvania. Hey Josh, how are you?

>> Good. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I'm calling in. We We had $90,000 of

debt. We have paid it down. We only have 28,000 left. Um, and we have about

20,000 in crypto that I've had for years that has just kind of sat there like everybody else has. I'm just wondering, should I liquidate that to just get through baby step two here and just finalize everything?

>> Yes.

>> Simple answer. >> Yeah. Anything that you had money in that was not retirement, >> we would tell you to liquidate it and clear your debt, >> okay? >> And focus very intensely on your debt because when your debt is cleared up, you then have control of your most powerful wealth buildinging tool, which is not investments. It's actually your income.

And when your income's all going out in debt payments, you've limited your ability to build wealth.

>> Correct. I mean, look, followed you guys religiously for a while. Well, not too religiously. You've got $20,000 in crypto, so you weren't real religious about it. But um but the uh um I mean semi I mean, you went to church on Easter, but that was it. And so um but that so anyway, the uh uh anyway, the thing is, yeah, if you had the money in Apple stock, if you had the money in

uh mutual funds, if you had the money in a money market account, if you had the money in a shoe box under your bed, we would tell you the exact same thing to liquidate it. and um put and pay off your debt as fast as possible. It just gives us a little bit more joy when it's something as stupid as crypto to tell you to do it. So yeah, but yeah, definitely go do that for sure.

>> When is a world that Dave Ramsey would ever buy crypto?

>> I don't gamble much.

I'm >> If it ever became a proven investment for you, >> well, it's not going to be a proven investment because it's a commodity. Um, and commodities are never a proven investment there. That's a problem.

Commodities like gold or oil. I don't buy barrels of oil either. >> Sure. >> Um, because Yeah, exactly.

And I don't buy blockchain and so I don't buy crypto. So, um, it's a currency. I don't buy the yen and I don't buy the Deutsch mark. >> You can invest in the Deutsch Mark or the Yen.

They're a proven currency. You could look at the track record and see what the how that is done versus the USD, right? Or the the euro. I mean, you could you could it's like it's a currency.

It's crypto >> currency. Yeah. And so a digital currency, so you could, you know, but I don't invest in currencies. So crypto is no exception.

um appealing because it has the least track record of all of them today.

Someday though, it could have a long track record and it could be very >> much more legitimate than it is now.

>> Right now it's just all the cool kids doing stupid stuff. And it's just it's maddening because people are using up their wealth building power that they could have actually become wealthy and they get screwed over trying to be cool and um because it's very fattish. Um

it's as dumb as Beanie Babies or um

>> well, >> you know, really I mean people were buying Beanie Babies and were and I've had people call me on this show in the old days and >> your wife. >> My wife but No, no, no. She bought Beanie Babies like crazy, but she never once said it was your college fund. >> Oh, true. Yeah. >> I had people put their kids college fun in Beanie Babies. Princess Diana bear.

We had a special >> Yeah. Can you tell me one that has sold?

I I got one. The dog carries it around, but I don't yet know one that has sold.

>> I know. >> They're supposedly sold for $10,000, but I've never seen one. They're for sale on eBay, but no one's ever bought one. So, um anyway, it's hilarious. I mean, you know, we had you were you were a baby and there was a thing that went around. people decided they were going to instead of investing in uh cattle um and

uh pigs, they were going to buy emus

because emu meat was uh somewhat like ostrich meat and we had emu we had friends that bought farms and bought

emus.

I mean this is the same it's the same category for me as crypto. I mean, it's just the same.

It's just a fad and Beanie Babies and so it's just because it's just something everybody's into and all the cool kids are talking about it and it's dumber than crap and it's just, you know, people are just doing it in mass and so uh because they're losing their butts.

They really are >> and and so >> well the amount of what's wild to me is the amount of scams >> and the amount of scams >> within it and the amount of things that people have lo I mean so much money people have lost in it. >> Yeah. I mean that the other day we were took a call Jade and I caught a catfish.

I mean Jade caught the catfish. The guy was catfishing this girl from Russia.

She had never met him and her boyfriend in Russia wanted her to cash out her 401k and put it into crypto with him and she'd never met him physically.

>> It was a complete, >> you know, romance scam over the internet, but they're using crypto to do it. So, oh my god. I mean, that stuff's everywhere. We're getting that stuff in here like in by the title waves into our offices by email. Help us with this.

Help us. We're not the FBI. We can't help you with this. It's just, you know, try not doing stupid stuff. That'll help. It's just, oh my gosh. Wow. Bless.

It was so sad, too. Like, it was the first time maybe she ever realized that she didn't have a real boyfriend was when Jade told her.

>> It was awful, >> man. >> It was just devastating. >> That's why we all need friends.

>> Yeah, right. People need people. John is

in Louisiana. Hey, John. What's up?

>> Hey, how's it going, guys?

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> It's good. It's good. Hey, uh got a blessing brought on us. Uh my parents are gifting us their modular home and

about 3 acres of land on their property.

And uh I guess really I have a few questions, but my first one is should we use the money that we received from selling our current home to remodel and upgrade the place that we're receiving or should I pay off some debt with that money?

Okay. So many questions. Um, how much

debt do you have?

>> Uh, once my house is sold, my current home, I would have about 60,000 60 to 65,000 in vehicles. That is it.

>> Okay. Um, so, uh, and but I mean, you're getting money from your current home, right?

>> Yes. Yes. If I owe 140, we should sell around 190 to 210 somewhere in there.

Mhm. And you have other debt that you would use that money for. You're asking whether to pay the cars off with that.

>> Yeah. Should I pay the cars off with it or should I fix up the home? Because >> you should pay the cars off. You should pay the cars off or you should sell them. What What do you uh What do you make? What's your household income?

>> Uh together we make We bring home uh $77,000. >> Okay. You don't need $65,000 worth of cars, sir. And you're going to be broke your whole life, >> right? >> You got too much You got too much tied up in cars.

>> Okay. Yeah. Uh we do have a little plan uh with the no house payment. Obviously we plan to pay both vehicles off in two years. >> Doesn't matter. You still got $65,000

you're going to turn into 10,000 and you don't make enough money to do that.

You've got too much of your life invested in things going down in value rapidly, whether it has debt or not.

>> Yeah, John, we would say anything with motors and wheels, it should be half your annual income. So you guys should have closer to like 30 $35,000 >> max.

Your cars are killing you.

>> Yeah. >> You owe almost as much on your cars as you do your house.

>> Wow. >> Yeah, it's about half. Yes. >> I know. It's devastating. Okay, that's first part. Second part. Modular modular

house. Help me with that. Is this a trailer? mod. The difference between the difference between a modular home, I got a a definition pulled up. Uh modular home and manufactured homes, the modular homes are factory-built homes that are essentially the same as traditional homes once assembled. So, pretty much they're made >> if I walk up to it, I can't tell that it

wasn't stick built.

>> Uh no.

>> Okay. So, there's wall sections put together, but and they came on a truck, but and that's modular. That's the proper definition. But I can't tell that this house what it doesn't remind me of a trailer. It reminds me of a house.

>> No, sir. Yes. It reminds you of a shotgun style house. >> Okay, then you can fix that one up.

That's fine. But if you can tell, if it

looks like a trailer, it's a trailer.

[Music]

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[Music]

Natasha is in California. Hi, Natasha.

How are you?

>> Oh, I'm doing great, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yes, my husband and I have um a little bit of debt um but we also have savings

and so I was wondering if it'd be a good idea to take from our savings to pay

down our debt. >> How much savings? How much debt?

>> So total savings is 75,000 45 in just a

regular savings account 30 in a separate IRA or simple IRA.

>> Oh, so part of this is retirement money.

Okay. >> Yes. >> All right. So 35 and say it again the >> 45 in savings. >> Okay. And how much debt? >> And then uh 65,000 total

>> on what?

>> One is a business vehicle and uh one is

business credit card and a consumer credit card from our personal.

>> Okay. They're all consumer by the way because the business was not loaned any money. It doesn't have any money. You signed them personally.

>> Yes. >> You qualified them as business. No one else did.

>> Okay. >> Just to help you. The law doesn't see it that way. In other words, the bank doesn't see it that way. They didn't loan that business any money. It doesn't have any money. So, um >> Yes. >> So, is that your husband's work truck?

>> Yes. >> What's he do for a living?

>> Um, we own a film production company and an event production. So, it hauls all our equipment. >> Gotcha. Okay.

>> How's the business doing? Is it making money? >> Well, yes. Yes, we make money.

>> Good. Good. Congratulations.

>> Thank you. >> All right. Um well, what we teach folks,

um in the business, you should be holding back some of your profits in the business account for retained earnings,

which is a savings inside the business to cover the eb and flow of business and cash flow. Okay.

>> Okay. >> So, you got to be keeping some cash over there to cover different bills that come in before the customers pay their bills.

Okay. payables versus receivables, cash flow and um and probably even for some

growth if you want to buy some equipment or things like that, you'd have a little cash over there. So, start setting aside a percentage of your profits in the business to keep there in the business.

Then what comes home we work with to run the household and that would include paying off all of our debts. Um

[Music] how much what kind of income what's your household income off of this business? What what's the taxable income?

The total taxable income um the is

184,000 >> the profit >> for both of us. >> No. Um >> that's not >> currently you'd only pay taxes on our

>> Okay. So yeah. Oh yeah. So then that would be our profit.

>> Okay. So that that's >> my husband also has a a 9 to5 like he

also earns a salary. >> Oh I see. Okay. Um

All right. Yeah, I want to clear these debts whether they're whether they're labeled business or whether they're not as fast as possible. So, yeah. So, anyway, in on the personal level, what we teach folks is what we call the baby steps. And the first baby steps have only $1,000 saved. Everything above that that's not retirement, we would throw at the debt. So, the answer to your question is, yeah, we would take most of this 40,000 and throw it at the debt.

But in your situation, I probably need to pull some of that 40,000 and set it

in the business account to make sure we've got enough to cover the slush. I'm talking about. Okay. >> Yeah. Is there any savings in the business right now? Do you have any money set aside?

>> Not savings. It just sits in the active account. >> No, but I mean, how much is in there?

>> Good question. Um about we roll over maybe about 3 to 4,000 a month. Okay.

Like that just or some months are good, some are, you know, it just >> Yeah. You need to keep a little in there so that it doesn't drain back out of the house. Okay. And then past that, we're going to pay off the debts, smallest to largest, and I'm going to um pay the

40,000, all of it, but uh $1,000 at

these debts. Um it sounds like that's going to clear up everything but the truck and a big bunch of the truck,

>> right? Yes. We owe 39 on the truck.

39,000. >> Okay. And so you've got 16,000 in other

debt.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. Cut up the business credit card. Quit using a business credit card.

Make the business cover itself.

>> A debit card is all you need there. Make it cover itself. It has to has to cash flow its own deal.

>> It has to it has to create money, not drain money. And so when you sneak off money over on the side on the credit card, it makes you feel like you're doing better in the business than you actually are. And so, uh, you got to get rid of that problem from a business management or acumen standpoint. And then um uh but if we clear if we pay that credit card off and cut it up, we pay off 16 out of the 40 and then we start throwing chunks and chunks and chunks at this car.

which in Eur's case is probably 30 or $40,000 again. I want you to get back up to that $40,000 number by this time next year. Um, but you could do that. You could be debtree and be back to your $40,000 number by this time next year if you concentrate on it and tighten up your budget really tight. >> Yeah. And the fact that you guys have other jobs. I mean, he has another full-time job, too, on top of it.

>> It's a total of $184,000 household income >> of everything. >> Yeah, that's what she said. >> So, it's good. Yeah, you guys can do that. >> That that's that's reachable there.

Megan is in Delaware. Hi, Megan. How are you? >> Hi, I'm well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I'm calling regarding two investment condos that my husband and I own. We've owned them for about 20 years. Um we have a fidiciary advisor who's advising us to sell them and buy um two one or

two multifamilies in a different state um where we could possibly or hopefully get more rent um for compared to what we're getting now. And my question to you is, should we do that or should we sell the apartments um just take the equity and get hit get get the tax hit but then just have the equity and and not have any more investment properties anymore? >> Yeah. Um multif family is uh very

intense to manage because it's multi-family and um being in another state is a nightmare as far as I'm concerned. I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate and I don't own any multif family in another state.

>> Oh. >> Um >> yeah, I think that's part of our problem too is we're overwhelmed. We have kids and we both work full-time and we're overwhelmed. >> I think this fiduciary adviser is telling you what he wishes he could do, not what you should do.

>> Yeah, it she she owns a lot of

multifamilies herself. That's kind of how we found her. And um >> you found her because you were looking to do multif family.

>> No, we found her because I I had it was hard to find an investment um or an advisor who um would help us with our real estate because we have so much equity and so much of our wealth is in real estate and in our 401ks that I see.

>> Um yeah, I wanted somebody who specialized in it. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, you got that's fair. Yeah. >> Yeah, that's a fair assessment. And but she's going to take you. I mean, you know, when you're a hammer, everything's a nail, right? >> Well, and if you're tired right now, Megan, then that's that's that's triple

quadruple >> tires. You're not you're not getting rid of the tired, >> Megan. Um, we put her back on. I want to ask her.

>> Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. >> Megan, how if you sold if you sold both of those, how much would you guys net out if you sold your condos and didn't buy a multif family?

>> So, they're worth 1.6 6 million together and we own one of them outright and we have 120,000 left on the mortgage.

>> Okay. >> With the other one. >> Okay. And what's your what what's in your 401k?

>> Um my husband and I together have 4.5 million. >> Way to go. >> Gosh. Well done. >> Good job. >> Well done. Well done. >> Thank you. >> Proud of you. Yeah. Um if you don't want to own real estate anymore, then because of the hassle of it, then you don't want to own multif family in another state.

>> Mhm.

>> Okay. If you do want to own real estate, there's it's okay.

>> I'm so worried down the line because I hear you and and so many wealthy people who have a little bit of both. And I'm afraid if I sell it, then I won't have any more real estate. Is that okay?

>> That's a good question. >> It's okay if you don't want real estate.

I mean, I know people that hate the idea of owning real estate because it is a real estate gives you a much greater rate of return than the stock market will, but it's also a much greater hassle factor.

It is. Yeah. >> Yeah. You don't you don't have the neighbor you don't you don't have a tree fall in the neighbor's yard when you own a mutual fund.

>> Yeah. And if you guys are tired, Megan, I would I mean just you could sell them and then spend a couple of years just investing and then if you guys want to get back into real estate, you can, you know, >> go into a type of real estate that's much less intensive.

the other end of the spectrum on mental calories.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Sarah is with us in

Detroit. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

>> I'm great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I am calling. I am recently divorced and

the mom of two teenagers and I'm trying to figure out my best path forward with my retirement money. I was never the one

in the marriage who focused on this. And so in listening to your show, I'm really all over the map with my baby steps. But

the one thing I do have, I was able to keep my 401k.

>> Good. >> Uh with the divorce. >> Good. >> I have $933,000

in my >> Oh, good for you.

>> Not bad for somebody that didn't know what was going on. You got a million bucks, girl.

>> I know. I know. I'm 47. I am a a I'm a

child welfare worker.

>> Um, and with my job with the state, I'm

actually able to convert that 401k to a Roth IRA.

>> And I hear that you say on your show that Roth is better than 401k. So, I'm trying to determine if that is how much

would I be paying like tax implications.

Is this smart to do at my age?

>> Are you still working?

>> I am still working. I can retire in about five years. I don't anticipate retiring in five years given my um income. >> I would I would change your current contributions to be Roth only, but

that's different than the 933.

>> Anything of the 933 that we move to traditional is going to be taxed.

>> Now, now I'd like for you to do that over time, but in context with a bunch of other things going on. not just go, "Hey, let's write a $250,000 check in taxes and move $800,000 over instead of

950." Okay? Or 700,000 instead of 950, okay? Because that's what it's going to do to you. And I wouldn't do that.

>> Okay. >> It's going to cost you 250 grand in taxes to move this right now. And I wouldn't do that. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, but I do want you to systematically move it over a number of years in context with everything else you're doing that we've not gotten to yet.

Okay, so you've done a great job.

Congratulations. You're a millionaire >> and from this point forward, you're going to make contributions in the Roth.

So, call HR, change your cont change your 401k from this point forward to be

Roth contributions. Okay.

>> Roth 401k. >> Roth 401k. >> Okay. She's asking about a Roth IRA.

>> You have a Roth 401k. Is this Roth IRA now?

>> No, it's not. I have the ability to switch it over to a Roth IRA. >> No. Yeah, you can switch it to a Roth 401k. You can't switch it to a Roth IRA unless you quit. >> Okay, gotcha. Okay.

>> You can't move a 401k while you're currently employed. >> But you could, >> but you could roll it to the for a Roth 401k and do the same exact thing. That's what I was talking about. >> Do you have a Roth IRA, Sarah, or just a traditional IRA?

>> It's a traditional 401k.

>> I I just have the traditional >> 401k. Yeah. >> Well, she should open a Roth IRA as well. Yeah, that'd be that wouldn't be a bad thing. Are you debtree now?

>> So, I only have I'm I'm working on it. I

just have final lawyer fees that I have to pay, but I should hopefully in the next in the next two months, I should hopefully be done with that.

>> Good for you. >> But then I do have to save up for my um

>> 3 to 6 months. That's and and it's crushing me to not continue putting money in my 401k or opening up the Roth.

>> That's okay. You you need you listen, you've been through hell and you need an emergency fund.

>> You're going to feel better when you got 20 or 30 grand laying around and then you go back to your 401k. You're okay.

You're not going to retire with dog food, kid. You got it. You did it.

You're a millionaire. >> Thank you. >> Okay. You're okay. Thank you. >> The only question now is just how we can maximize it. Not not are we on are you're not going to be homeless. I mean, you're good. So, we're good shape. So, uh, what I will tell you is jump on ramiesolutions.com and click on Smartvevestor Pro and find

someone in your area that that's the people that we recommend in that world that will sit and spend some long form time with you and catch you up because what you are is a smart intelligent person that does not have this particular information.

>> Correct. >> And so, you've got a little bit of learning to do, but it's not difficult learning. and the Smart Investor pros.

We will not send people to investment people unless they have the heart of a teacher because I want them to teach you so you're making the decision with the information they give you, not my guy told me to.

>> Okay? >> I want you to be confident and competent going forward because that creates a sustainable situation. But what it's going to look like, Sarah, is pausing at all that retirement right now, not doing anything with it, pausing it, getting that cash save for your emergency fund.

And then what it'll look like in four years probably is that you're going to have a Roth IRA as one account that you're going to be funding. >> You're going to have a 401k traditionally >> and then a Roth.

>> And so you'll and then slowly moving some of that money, >> move some of that traditional to Roth each year without tripping your tax bracket. >> That's right. That's right. And that's what they're going to help you do. Y >> uh and so over a 10-year period of time, you're going to move it all to Roth, >> but instead of just writing a singular check upfront, boom, and taking the hit.

I wouldn't do that. >> Um I'd move it gradually and let someone help you do the math on that and show you why you're doing it that way.

Rachel's exactly right. Yeah, you'll get the lawyer's fees and the emergency fund cleaned up and then you can start your 401k back, but start it back as a Roth and you'll be doing a Roth individual on the side. And then the last step will be to gradually start moving some of this 933 into Roth inside your 401k unless

you leave. And if you leave, you can move it inside of a IRA. Either one would be fine. So, very good. Very good.

Wow. She's done great. >> Mhm. It's great. Sarah, >> we have talked to several multi-millionaires today.

>> Mhm. an unusual number.

>> A lot of people do >> for one particular day. >> Yep. >> Uh four million, 8 million, >> three million, a million with her.

>> Um pretty cool. >> It's great. >> Pretty cool. Folks are doing better out there than a lot of people think folks are doing out there. >> Uh it turns out the stuff that that we're talking about around here works.

Uh some of some people are doing it without us talking about it because they never heard of us. Some people are doing it because they followed exactly what we told them to do and they become baby steps millionaires. So, but either one works. I mean, we're just happy.

We're happy for you when you succeed and um and we're going to love you enough to tell you the truth, whatever the situation is and uh and help you get, you know, help you get things aligned so that you can succeed in all of these things.

It's only 20% had knowledge.

the mathematical knowledge to become extremely wealthy you learn by the sixth grade in most schools.

Okay? It's compound interest is multiplication. That's all it is. It's not if you know how to do multiplication, you're ready to go. So,

you know, and then you can add and subtract into a budget and tell if you're spending more than you make. So, it's not about that. It's about controlling the person in your mirror, becoming a person of character, developing only quality relationships, and exiting toxic ones or redeeming toxic ones,

whatever, so that they're no longer affecting the whole process. Because this whole thing works together. Your spiritual walk, your relational walk, your behavior, the way you take care of your body, the way you treat each other and your family. All of these things enter into whether or not you actually can become financially successful.

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Not available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Jill in Michigan. I recently got engaged and we're trying to figure out how we should be splitting the wedding expenses. I understand that you always recommend that married couples combine finances, but what do you do in the stage where

moving from a boyfriend to a girlfriend to engage and planning a wedding when most of the cost will come out of our pockets and not from our parents? Yeah,

it's a great question, Jill. Um, I mean, I can tell you what Winston and I did. We just opened up a separate checking account completely and put our wedding money in that. >> The wedding checking account.

Yeah, we called it the wedding checking account and then used debit card, wrote checks and stuff out of that account. So, but from the splitting expenses, I think you got I mean, however much you both have to spend on the wedding, that's going to be the budget and it may be coming more from him, more from you, I don't know. Whatever you guys decide the the total is going to be of what you guys can afford.

percentage- wise of who who comes from who, that doesn't bother me. So, if it's a $20,000 wedding and it's 10 and 10,

that's great. If it's 515, that's great.

I mean, I don't care. But yeah, I would put it in one account and then you guys just use that account as the wedding

account. And then once I ended up just migrating all of our money to that account eventually and closed out our other two uh and that became our, you know, joint checking at that point, but >> post post wedding. >> Post wedding. Yep. >> Yeah. the um so yeah I think the main

issue is you sit down and say okay with my budget and my debts and my savings here's what I can contribute to the wedding and with your budget your debts and your savings what can you contribute and we both come to a number and it doesn't have to be the same number I agree with Rachel uh but it does need to be laid out ahead of time so you say okay I can put in five and I can put in 15 we've got our 20 okay and uh then

you've got and we're both have a clearly aligned goal goal of and here's when I'm going to be able to do that when I sell this car or when I do that and that's how we're going to be able to fund that.

And then that'll help you come up with your wedding budget. And then I'll go a step further beyond the question and tell you um

we had um in classic Ramsay style three uh

wonderful fun parties that were weddings that were honoring to God. And we had a blast at all three of them, all three kids. They were absolute fun celebrations. We like to party. And um that was the positive.

And the other positive was was that all

three of them uh were

in huge compliment to all three Ramsey Gen 2s. Um that they they laid out a

game plan. and they put a number on it and then they broke it down line by line

what we're going to spend on the wedding and they stuck to it by and large. And and so no one had a little uh

four-year-old on the serial aisle meltdown bride bride of Bradzilla fit

and no mother-in-laws had a bridezilla fit uh like some of these things you see on these reality stuff and all that.

This was just like, okay, here's a project and it's going to cost this. The dress is going to be this. the uh the

reception is going to be the big number usually and if you're going to throw a party it is and the and you know here's the videographer and here's what we pay the preacher and here's what the venue costs and you do you're running a project like you're building a house here's what the carpet costs here's what the lights cost and that's the budget and we stick to that then we don't go oh

you know we can do without the lobster flown in from Madagascar or whatever right >> yeah I will say because it's a story you wrote in Smart Money Smart Kids I did go over a little bit with the chairs at the reception. Do you remember that? >> I do remember that. >> And I was like, "Hey, I just need to come." >> You had to have that. You had to have the had to have the gold chair. >> No, no, no, no, no. It was just the Yes.

When everything shook out, there was a there was a small deficit, >> but it was it was not >> No, it was not significant. >> And it really was. >> But in Rachel fashion, I spent every last penny of the three kids. This one here is the one that went over. Yeah.

And so, uh, but it was just it was enough that it made a really good joke.

And so and we make fun of her for the next 25 years. So that's it. But the uh it's good family legend stuff. But anyway, the the point being you lay out a budget and you say this is the number and that means we're going to spend X on dress, Y on reception >> and this and we can't do the open bar or we can or whatever we're doing, right?

And you look at the cost and you can't just say, "Oh, none of this matters because of romance." Yes, it does. You're going to screw up the romance. >> Yeah. >> With the money.

And it's honestly and it's and it's good learning. I mean, I know people depending on when you're getting married, >> you always have to make choices. >> Yes. Yes.

And I remember we had to do stuff like in the actual church, the pews, you know, the the flowers on the side and all of it. We had to nyx those and do berries instead. We were getting married on Christmas because we didn't have our flower budget was over. So, it was like, okay, we got to cut flowers somewhere.

Where where are we going to cut it? You know, so it is it's you are figuring it out, but it's a great test run as a couple. Now, the guy usually doesn't care.

>> There might be some mothers or mothers involved. >> Well, yeah, that too. >> But that >> Thank God not for me. >> Anyway, it's good. It's good. It's good.

You learn You learn some boundaries there, too. >> Yes. >> So, it's But do not enter this. And this

couple here isn't because the way she's asking this, I can tell she's not guilty. Um, but do not enter this like

um I have unlimited ability to spend just because I have a right to. this entitlement thing on weddings is out of control and um you

know and it's partly because we have 16th birthdays now that are out of control and then that extrapolates into a wedding that's out of control and so um and I don't care what you spend. It's the out of control part I don't like.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. I I mean friend of mine they spent $125,000 on the wedding the other day and u I don't that didn't bother me a bit. They got billions of dollars and that's not a big deal. Uh so uh but it's the it's the that the this supposed

grown woman and the supposed grown man

that she's marrying cannot be told. No one can tell them no. Like they're little spoiled brats or something. And that drives me bananas. So but if you're

paying for your own, you got to tell yourself no like Jill's doing. So Jill's not guilty of that for sure. But guys, just be be careful with that. It's it can get out of control really really quick. Uh Frank's in Alaska. Hey Frank, what's up? >> Uh, not much. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Great, great. So, I am looking at retiring in about a year and a half or leaving my job at least. My wife's going to keep working. We have a a house mortgage at 300,000. Our house is currently worth probably about 650. I have two vacant lots right next door to me that are completely paid off. And I'm looking at possibly paying uh building a

duplex on one of these lots and living in one side as a way to become mortgage

free within my retirement. I don't want to go into retirement and carry a mortgage. >> So, you'd sell your house? >> Um, well, that's a question. My mortgage

for my house right now is like $1,300 a month. And I know I could rent it out for like $3,000 a month. And I'm thinking about just holding on to the house and using that as a supplement the

income to pay off or to pay off the mortgage on a duplex.

>> I thought you were going to be debtree out. All right. >> How'd you How'd you not end up debtree? I thought you told me you were doing this to be debtree.

>> Well, yeah. I'm looking to be mortgage free. >> You're not mortgage free. You got a mortgage on the house >> in the duplex. Yeah. I >> No, he's clearing the How are you clearing the duplex?

Well, clearing the duplex. Well, I have $200,000 to pay down on the duplex in

cash and then um eventually selling the

house to use that to pay down on the on the duplex.

>> Okay. So, no, I would not do your plan.

Uh if you want to do something to become debtree, do it, but don't half do it and eventually do it. You need to pull the trigger on the whole thing at once when you get ready to do it. No, I would not do this. Um, I don't buy res I don't buy

rental properties, investment properties with debt, period. It adds to risk. It

doesn't reduce risk. So, if you want to sell the vacant, one of the vacant lots and sell your home and take the equity from your home in $200,000 and build a duplex and move in half of that debtree, we can talk about that one.

>> The downside then is that your tenant lives next door to you.

The upside is your tenant lives next door to you. >> Yeah. Just knock knock knock.

>> Hello. Yeah. >> Hi. This is leaking.

>> Hello. The B light bulbs out.

>> Happy retirement. >> Something's dripping over here. Yeah.

Doesn't sound fun to me, but some people can do it.

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Alexander is in California. Hey, Alexander. How are you?

>> Good. And you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I'm in a predicament right now and I need your advice. >> Okay. >> Uh, my mother passed away early March and she has a life insurance policy for about $300,000 and it's split between me and my brother. My mom rid out the policy when

we were minors in case she died of her disease that she passed away of not that long ago. And the money is being held by my aunt and my grandma.

>> I'm sorry. No, wait a minute. Stop. That that's not possible. Okay. Your mother bought a life insurance policy and it had a beneficiary.

>> Oh, I'm not sure how that stuff works, but >> Well, I'm telling you that's how it works. Okay. And the beneficiary is who the check should have been written to.

Now, did she make your grandmother the beneficiary or did she make you the beneficiary?

>> Uh, it's the paperwork states the money supposed to go to me and my brother.

>> What paperwork?

>> Uh, my stepfather gave me the paperwork of what the insurance policy was.

>> Okay. Are you are How old are you?

>> Uh, I just turned 18 uh February 27th.

>> When did your mother pass away?

>> Uh, March 2nd.

after you turned 18.

>> Yeah. Uh I believe it was two days after I turned 18 when my mother pass.

>> I'm so sorry.

>> It's all right. >> And your your brother is how old?

>> Uh my brother just turned 24 a few days ago. >> Okay. So if you were named the beneficiaries, the check should not have been sent by the life insurance company to anyone but you. I'm confused how it got sent to your grandmother.

I think it's because my stepdad said

that uh I think it was written to my um

aunt and my grandma, but it it states on the paper that the money is supposed to be split between the children, which is me and my >> No, honey, that's not how life insurance policy works. There's no paper that does that on life insurance. Your step you haven't seen the paperwork, have you?

>> Uh I have the paperwork, >> but you've not looked at it and understood it. Okay. All right. So, I

don't know what has happened based on the story you're telling me because you're getting told by uh family legend

that paperwork says something, but I don't think it says what you think it says. And here's why. Okay, a life

insurance policy has a beneficiary on it. The beneficiary gets sent the check.

Period. If the life insurance company sends the check to someone else, they're going to lose all the money because the person that is the beneficiary is going to sue the life insurance company for all the money. And the life insurance companies just simply don't do that.

They will not write the check to anyone that's not the beneficiary.

Okay. So, I think I'm guessing because

you don't know and I can't tell, but I'm guessing that this policy said that the

life insurance was to go to your grandmother and a will or a verbal

agreement with your mother said it was supposed to go to you once it went to your grandmother thinking that you were going to be a minor at the time.

>> Yeah, I think that's the way my stepdad explained it. >> Yeah, but I think the reason their grandmother has the money is she was actually the beneficiary.

Okay. And unless you can produce a piece of paper like a will or something else in writing, not family legend, but in

actual writing that your grandmother owes you that money because that was your mother's written will

and desire. Um, >> does she have a will, Alexander? Do you know? >> Uh, I have no idea to be honest.

>> Yeah. So, when you talk to your grandmother about this, what does she say?

Well, I talked to my aunt about it because uh it it was written off to both of them. So, they they both got their own checks which split the money.

>> And what did they say?

>> Um well, my aunt told me about it and my stepdad told me about it around the same time. And every time I I bring it up to

my aunt, like the story always changed.

like the amount of money changes or like

the way she explains that the money will be spent changes. I mean, I'm not so

close.

That was maybe >> Hey, you're breaking up, Alexander. >> We can't We can't hear you. You're breaking up, huh? Are you Are you back?

>> Wherever you walked, walk back.

>> Oh. Uh, >> there you go. Yeah, you're there. You're there. >> Thank you. Thank you. All right. >> My bad. Every time um I do talk to my aunt, it's like something changes about it or like she has like a new rule of what the money will be spent on or something like that

>> for you or for herself?

>> Uh for me and my brother.

>> So she says what? You have to spend it on college or you have to spend it for a down payment or like what what does she say? Well, she'll bring up college or she'll bring up like me moving out to the Bay Area with her and going to college out there and I pay her rent.

But if I ever ask her for money for like something maybe I seek interest in or like to put towards my future, she's always iffy about it and saying that it's not what my mother would have wanted.

>> Okay. You do not have a legal problem.

You have a relationship problem.

This cannot be solved by a court of law because you don't have any standing >> unless there's a will somewhere and >> if there's not a will and you don't get your hands on a will that dictates but a will very seldom dictates what happens to life insurance policies.

>> It only dictates what happens to an estate. So you can have a will and it

won't it does not supersede what the life insurance policy said. So, the life insurance policy um I I I

um I I'm afraid that you are going to

have to develop a relationship with your aunt that is not adversarial and that

she needs to become convinced this is for your own good. She thinks she's supposed to manage this money, that your mom wanted her sister to take care of you. That's what she thinks. and she's

got some weird definitions of what take care of you means and they're different than your definition. Um, but you're 18

and you've just lost your mom and that's

part of the deal. So, um, but I I I'm

not I'm not a lawyer, Alexander. You could go spend some money with a lawyer if you want. I think you're wasting it.

Uh, because I don't think you're I think you're going to >> from a legal >> persuade your aunt to use the money that

is in some way that is good for you.

>> How much is it? How much does your aunt have and how much does your grandmother have? >> 300,000 150 each. Is that right?

>> Yes, correct. >> Okay. >> Okay. And so, uh, and your grandmother has some as well.

>> Uh, yeah. My grandmother has her check put in a separate bank account from hers. >> And what does she tell you? You haven't talked to her?

>> Uh, no. I haven't talked to her yet about it. It's mainly my aunt trying to be in control of it all. That's why.

>> Okay. Well, I haven't heard anything that your aunt was using it for herself. I've heard that you are not in agreement as to what's good for you. She wants to use it for one thing that's good for you. You want to use it for a different thing that's good for you. And you want control of it. And I don't think you're going to get control of it. Your mother didn't leave you in control of it. She left your aunt in control of it. That's what it sounds like.

>> And I don't think I don't think there's any piece of paper anywhere floating around that's going to give you control.

Not in the story you told me. I'll be shocked if you find it. If you find it, then I would take that piece of paper, whatever it is, the will or anything else you can find, and sit down with your aunt in person and say, "This piece of paper says that I need this money.

And if you don't write me a check, I'm going to have an attorney ask you to write me a check." And then you would seek legal counsel. But I don't think you're going to find that piece of paper, Alexander. I don't think it exists. I think this was a handshake between your mother and her sister

>> and her mom >> and and her mom to take care of her boys.

And the boys just don't agree with what take care of is defined as.

>> That's what it sounds like. You hearing me? >> Mhm. >> So if I were you and your brother, a I would look for this paperwork and not be adversarial about it until you find the paperwork. And if you don't find the paperwork, or if you do, buy an airline ticket or get in a car and drive and sit

down in person with your aunt and start trying to come to some alignment on what she thinks is good for you and what you think is good for you. Um, because I don't think the story is changing as much as you think it's changing. I think that you've gone through a lot of tragedy and hurt and heartache and you

want to do what you want to do and she's telling you no.

That's what it sounds like.

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Our scripture of the day, 2 Timothy 2:15. and do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Theodel Roosevelt said, "Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work

worth doing." Amen. Hey, the Ramsay Gold

Planner is out and for sale. Set you up

for 2026. It's jam-packed with monthly

content from Jade Rachel and Dr. Dr.

John Deloney to help you start each month on track with your money, your faith, and your relationships, and then follow through on your goals. We sell out every year. Don't wait. You can get yours for $49.97 at ramseyolutions.com/store or click the link in the show notes.

Jake is in Boisee, Idaho. Hi, Jake. How are you?

>> Oh, staying out of trouble, so can't complain too much. Good. Um, thanks for having me on. >> My pleasure. How can we help? Um, so issue or a problem that came up is we had a murder happen right next door at our home. >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. Um, my wife is a stay-at-home mom

with two under two at home, like two little ladies. Um, and so obviously like

she was at home and everything went down and all that fun stuff with all the cops showing up. But so she doesn't feel safe there anymore. It wasn't like a gang violence thing. It was just a >> random guy.

Um, yes. I would say, oh, I guess you could call it R. It's like a crazy guy decided to go after some family members.

I'll put it that way. So, >> I mean, I'm sorry. Say that again.

>> Yeah. >> A crazy guy. >> A crazy guy just decided to try and uh

just succeeded in killing one of his one of his daughters and then tried to kill another one one of his other kids. And that >> So, the Wait a minute. The murder was domestic violence gone crazy. He knew the people he was killing and they had nothing to do with your family.

Correct. >> So, this is not a crime spree in the neighborhood. This is crazy people lived next door.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, why would your wife be afraid?

>> Um, well, she was at home through >> No. No. But do you have crazy people in your family that are going to come attack you?

>> Cuz that's what happened. >> Not that I know of. >> Well, that's what happened. >> Not that I know of.

>> Could be. But >> I feel the same way, Jake. I feel the same way.

could be sitting next to one of them.

>> What? >> Oh, brother. No, seriously. So, I mean, I would be afraid. I would be lo It'd be logical to be afraid if this was a random act of crime in the neighborhood, but this was associated with the family and the people in the a family member did this to another family member. Am I correct?

>> Yes, that's correct. >> So, there's no there was no danger presented to your house except for stray bullets.

>> Yep. Exactly. >> Okay. So there's now that he's gone, >> there's no there's no danger other than all the ickiness of this.

>> Yes. Exactly. That's my very logical

brain. That's not very emotional brain.

I'll put it that way. Works. >> Well, no, that's just that's it is emotional and it's logical, but emotions need to they need to be run by logic and we need to accept both. They're both are it's valid to say a traumatic thing happened next door.

It was traumatic to me and my wife and my little girls that cop cars were everywhere and people died over there. >> But that that's traumatic >> and and dealing with that trauma is a valid thing >> and that's a sweet thing for you to do and you and your wife to work on together.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And and they're they're very separate things. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. I'm back with you now.

I had to catch up because I didn't know the story enough. All right. I'm sorry y'all been through this. How old are your b How old are your babies?

>> Under two. >> Um, one just turned two yesterday actually or today and then another one the other one is 5 months old. >> Oh, so the five-month-old has no idea and the 2-year-old might have seen a cop car. So really it's your wife is was traumatized by it.

>> Yes, that is 100% correct.

>> Because I don't think the 2-year-old grasps probably what's going on.

>> Oh, yeah. I The kids are just fine. They have fun things. And you're and what she's saying, J. >> So, because of all this, she's saying she wants to move.

>> Yes, exactly. She just doesn't feel safe going on walks in the neighborhood anymore. Uh doesn't want the little ones playing out in the backyard as much and just so she is feeling like she needs to move and I want to be able to provide that for her. Um >> let me stop you. Dr. John Deloney would say that she's not going to feel safe anywhere.

>> Mhm. >> Because the lack of safety is not due to the actual presence of crime. It's due to the trauma and the trauma is inside of her and it's going to go wherever you move.

>> Okay. Um you this happened like a couple

weeks ago. I've been talking to my wife quite a bit. She still feels how she feels. Do you guys have any advice on navigating? >> Yeah, I think you guys need to see a therapist. She's been through hell.

>> You need to have somebody help her with her trauma.

>> Yeah. I mean I I'm not faulting that she has these feelings there. I I would feel the same way. >> Yeah.

It's creep. Oh, it's weird. Super weird. Yeah, >> it's super weird.

But it's not It's also the the cause. >> No, there was Yeah, if there was a breakin of, you know, >> if there was a If there were people there were people breaking in Rachel's neighborhood, there was guys going in and knocking doors in and stuff in her neighborhood and they caught them. Uh, so everybody feels safer now in her neighborhood. Okay.

If if the if the next door neighbor's 16-year-old stole his mother's diamond brooch and sold it to buy drugs, that doesn't make you scared unless he's going to come in your house to steal your diamond brooch, right? And so there's no there's no logical reason to be afraid when you're walking except that you've been traumatized and that means if you move across town, you're going to be afraid when you're walking still. Does that make sense?

>> Yes, it makes. So, I don't care if you move, but I don't want you to think moving is actually going to fix it. >> It's going to solve her fear.

>> It's not going to solve it.

>> Okay? >> So, I I would I would challenge you. I think I'm okay with you moving. I might move. >> Yeah. >> But I'm not going to move because I don't feel safe.

>> Okay. >> Because that tells me that I haven't dealt with my trauma yet. >> So, I would sit down with a therapist. I really would cuz I think your wife's really been traumatized. And I don't >> It's fair. Well, there was a murder in the neighborhood next to us and it was terrible, but it was a familyoriented thing. Um, >> we would be traumatized. >> So, yeah, it's you're so scary, but also

my kids will still ride their bikes in that neighborhood because it wasn't a it wasn't to your point. >> It's not they're not it's not a drive by shooting. >> Dangerous people around you, right? >> It's not it's not what's going on.

So, but but if but if but your wife has now internalized it is what I'm saying. And and that's okay. I understand. And it's it's a wound.

Trauma is a w it's a valid thing to for her to be scared and to have gone through this. But to extrapolate that to if I live on the other side of town, I won't be afraid when this had nothing to do with the house, >> then that's that that means you got something else to work on.

>> Six months of that and then if it's for some reason it's still not good, then maybe try the move. I don't know. >> I might move anyway. Just ickiness. I can move off of the memory. the memory is >> ickiness is weird because it'll always be the murder house >> as long as you live there. I mean, it's weird like um so yeah, I bought a house

one time when I was buying and selling real estate that a guy had been killed in >> and it was like it had a stigma the neighborhood >> but the people that bought it had no idea and it wasn't I mean I didn't have any idea when I bought it. >> Sure. >> I didn't care. I was buying a foreclosure. Right. Right. >> And so uh but it was but it's still there's an ickiness. I mean life a life was ended there. It's weird. Mhm.

>> It's just strange. So, you're you're the ickiness is a reason to move, but not if you if you're actually using the I don't feel safe, then that tells me she needs some other stuff. She needs some other help with this. And that's okay. That's not it doesn't mean she's a bad person.

It doesn't mean she's um you know, uh it

just means she went through some trauma.

And but don't take that with you to the other side of town and then go, "Well, I can never go outside the rest of my life and walk." because one time 42 years ago

there was a murder next door and I never dealt with my trauma. >> That that's how stuff develops and so you you don't want to live there and I'm channeling my inner Dr. John Del.

>> I was going to say you said internalize.

You were using some >> using some John Deloney words. >> Yeah, I know. I was like, man, trauma goes with you. >> Well, I've been hanging out with him. I've been learning from him. He's smart dude. >> It's good. >> So, there we go. >> It's real, though. So real.

>> That's so sad. I'm sorry y'all been through that, Jay. >> I know. And I'm just glad glad everybody's okay. >> And what you don't want to do is make a stupid financial decision based on the heightened emotion either. So just >> let some stuff settle. Yes. Go do some work and then if you guys need to make a wise decision to move, do that.

>> And ickiness is an okay decision. But that has nothing wrong with that. That puts uh this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat. Heat.

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## 27. Debt Is A Solvable Math Problem | November 13, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Ramsey personality Jade Warshaw. and it's open phones at88255225.

John is going to kick us off in Indianapolis. [music] What's going on, John?

>> Hey, how you doing? My name is John. Um,

>> we got that part. >> I want I'm sorry. Um, I want to know, should I file bankruptcy? And if not,

how do I get out of debt?

>> Wow. John, tell us tell us what's got you feeling like bankruptcy is your only option. Tell me tell tell us your debt.

tell us your income.

>> So, um the debt that we're that me and my wife is in is $30,000. My income is

close to $3500 a month. My wife's income is close to $2,000 a month.

>> She just now started back working.

>> Okay, >> good. So, you're bringing in 5,500 a month. That's your take-home pay.

>> Yes. >> Okay, >> good. So, is it is it possible if you said she's just started back working, is it because she just had a baby?

>> Yes, of course. >> Okay. So, I'm feeling like you might have been in a really, really tight season because she wasn't working and bringing in the money and now she's back to working. So, has it has there been a little bit more breathing room since she's been back working?

>> Yes, it has. It really has.

>> Okay, that's good. So, the good news is, you know, I was expecting you to say we have, you know, $290,000 of debt or 490,

you know, but the 30,000 when I hear that, I go, "Oh, we can do that." George, >> this is a solvable math problem. Yeah.

What kind of debt is the 30? Break it down for us. >> All right. So, most of it is personal loans. Um being um being brought up or

been gotten the time that she wasn't working. >> Um and also because I have two other children on child I'm on child support.

>> Okay. >> So, the time when I have them um it it

was tough. I didn't want my my kid that

I have with my wife looking nice and you know being able to do nice things and with them not being able to.

>> Of course. But there's more u there's more personal loans. My child support went up within a year. So um I'm paying the 746 a month. Um

I was I took out another loan u to pay a

lawyer so I would be able to get the visitation rights.

>> How much did that cost?

>> $4,500. >> Okay. So, $4,500 on visitation.

>> Is all the 30,000 personal loans and credit cards? >> Yes. Yes. >> No. No cars, no student loans.

>> One vehicle, $18,000.

>> Well, that's a big part of it. That's half. >> Is that on top of the 30 or is that part of it? >> Part of it. >> Okay. So, 30 in total. What's the car worth?

>> The car is worth about 10,000.

>> So, you're 8,000 underwater on it.

>> Yes. Is that when when was the last time you checked that? Was that private sale?

Was that what the dealer will give you?

Did you only go to one dealer? Tell us about your due diligence on that.

>> So, I checked that last night when um when I'm I was looking at at Credit

Karma. >> Okay. So, what I want you to do, your homework is let's go on Kelly Blue Book and let's see what it would do uh if it was a private sale because chances are you're going to get more for it than that u for private sale. And I would be

interested in knowing a little bit more about that to to make the next decision.

Um, what I want to know from you, John, is you guys have a fine income, 5,500.

Uh, yeah. 746 goes to child support.

That's fine. How much are you paying for rent or or mortgage if you if you own your home? >> Um, so my mortgage is $1175.

>> Okay, that's not bad. Um, is there another big expense that we should know about that's eating your lunch?

Uh, no. That's that that's that's mainly it. Uh, you know, besides utilities and

um and yeah, gas in my truck.

>> What's the total of all of your debt payments? Just make minimum payments.

What does that add up to for the month?

>> For the car, the personal loan.

>> Um, so, and that's the thing. I haven't even been able to make a payment yet.

Or, you know, I have, I just haven't done it. So, maybe.

>> Do you know what I think, John? I think that you would really benefit from a budget, a digital budget that you can put your income in at the top, the 5500.

And then in the budget, you will list out everything that you spend money on.

And the the the every dollar, which is what I'm going to give you, the best budget out there, it's going to keep a running tabulation of how much money you can spend. So, you'll put in I I make 5500, me and my wife combined, and then you'll list everything out. Okay, here's what we spend on groceries. Here's what we spend on rent. here's what we spend on uh gas, utilities, everything for the

month. And then after all of those things that are necessity for you to spend money on, then at the end, you're going to see, okay, how much is left?

Now, with what's left, you've got a couple of choices, John. You can say, okay, with the two with the $2,300 that's left, we can either squander that on Door Dash and takeout and Target and

Amazon Prime, or we can take that extra money and we can use it to start knocking down this 30,000. But what happens is if you don't give that that margin, that extra money an assignment, it just poof. It just goes away. Right, George? >> Exactly. So, if you can learn to live off, you know, let's say $4,000 out of the 5,500. If I said, "Hey, come hell or high water, you guys got to figure this out." Could you make that work?

>> Yes. Yes, we can. >> Cuz guess what? That means you got 1,500 left over, which means you're debtree in less than two years.

bankruptcy at this point, it feels like my back is against the wall and this is a great shortcut get out of jail free card. But the truth is bankruptcy is going to number one implode your financial world for the next 7 to 10 years on your record which is going to hurt your ability to do pretty much anything. And then on top of that, we didn't change the behavior that got John into this mess. >> And so the best way to get out of this is to avoid bankruptcy and just do the debt snowball method.

And this is real clear. Just pay off the smallest balance first and ignore the interest rate. So, what's your smallest balance debt right now? >> $400.

>> Perfect.

If you paid that off before you did anything else, you could knock out 400 bucks, right? >> Yes, I can. >> So, then you free up the payment that you were making on that $400, right?

>> Mhm. >> So, we roll that into the next debt. So, what's the next smallest balance?

>> The next smallest balance I think is 748. >> Mhm. You could probably knock that one out too with the next paycheck. >> Yep. In one month. >> So, one month, you've already cleared two debts. Do you see the progress and momentum of the debt snowball gives you?

>> Yes. Yes, I do. >> So, that's the math part of it, which works every single time if you do it.

But I'm going to tell you the emotional side. what's going to happen to you later this month when that check comes and you've paid the things like the rent and the utilities. You've gone and gotten groceries. You've put gas in the car.

You're going to see that money sitting there and you're going to see Olive Garden and you're going to want to go out to Olive Garden and there's going to be a movie that came out and you're going to want to go see the movie >> and the kids want to go and you've got them and you want to impress them. You want to show them your love. >> The boys want to have drinks. The boys want to go have drinks.

That's what's going to happen. And then you're going to go to yourself. You're going to say, "Well, I work hard for this money. Shouldn't I get to spend it the way I want to spend it?

Can't I start this next week?

Well, my wife, Right. And it's going to all the excuses and all the emotions are going to start setting in. Am I wrong?

>> No. You're definitely right.

>> Right. So, now that we've shed light on it, now that we've told you this is coming, you'll be your your awareness will be heightened and you'll say, "Man, it's happening. That thing that George and Jay told me about is happening. I have a choice to make. I am at a crossroads." critical, John, because the time is going to pass anyway and you can look up in two years and like George said, you can be completely debtree or

you can let your emotions control you and you can look up 2 years and you can be calling us back in the exact same situation. You're going to knock this out real fast, John. My guess 18 months.

If you and your wife get on that budget and hang on the line, Christian's going to pick up. We're going to gift you every dollar to make it super easy.

Download the app, get on the same page, list income and expenses, and then make a plan to create as much margin as possible to get out of debt as quickly as possible.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, too. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options.

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

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>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Carly [music] is in South Carolina up next. Welcome to the Ramsey Show, Carly.

>> Thank you for having me. How are y'all doing? >> Doing great. >> Good. >> How can we help? Um, so my so my question is how can I pay off my credit

card debt so that I can create a savings, but after I get paid and I pay

all of my bills, I literally have nothing left over.

>> Well, that's a that's a math problem.

That's an income problem, Carly. Um, which I I'm going to be honest with you because I we've been doing this show for a long time. I'd rather you have an income problem where you can just go out and work more, create some margin, and now we solve the problem versus you having to cut everything out of your budget because you've already done that. That's the good news. You've already cut everything down, haven't you?

>> Yes. >> Mhm. >> So, what do you make and what are you spending?

>> Okay. So, I'm a teacher. Um, and I only

bring home $3,800 a month.

>> All right. What's your rent?

My mortgage is $2,100 a month. I have a

550 car payment and daycare is about

$700 a month. And I do want to say I am

a single mom of five. So I'm doing this on my own. So it's it's really hard to save when you when I have five kids. And then so I've paid everything like my my

utility, cell phone bill, car insurance.

I have nothing left over. I've been having to use >> and there's no child support coming in.

No, he is not involved at all.

>> I mean, legally, I feel like he should be.

>> I agree. Um, I don't know where he is.

Um, and when we were together, we known each other since high school. And when we were together, he was on again, off again with Jobs. I've always been the sole provider. >> So, even if a judge was going to make him pay, nobody can find him to make him pay. Is that what you're telling me?

>> Correct. >> Yeah. Okay. So here I'm going to point out two major problems and I'm just warning you right now. This is going to be a lot. Uh number one thing is with your $3800 your rent is more than 50% of your take-home and it is extremely it's

almost impossible Kari to make that happen especially when you have a high another high bill something like uh insurance or a high car payment. So that

right there must change. The second thing is, >> well, I'm sorry. I just bought this home in January. >> I understand. That's why I said this is going to be very, very tough because no one home is security, right?

Home equals security. No one wants to be told that their home is too expensive.

No one wants to be told that they might possibly have to sell, right? That's the worst thing I could have said to you emotionally. >> I understand that, but I'm just right now I'm telling you the math. Math doesn't have emotions. That's the math.

50% over 50% almost impossible unless

you see a world where your income is going to double because that's the next problem is your income is quite it's on

the low side for a single mom with five kids and I'm not um I'm just telling you

the facts. So, we've got to solve for these very tough problems. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. >> When did you get the car?

Well, my car I've had since 2019, but

it's and I had to refinance um one time.

So, it's going to actually be paid off in June.

>> Okay. >> Just based on your current payment. >> Yeah. What do you owe?

>> Um a little bit over 4,000.

>> Okay. So, it's almost done. All right.

So, just based off you making the payments, you should be done in June, July. I like that. Um but it doesn't that's going to give you some breathing room. But at this point, the only way you're making it to June, July is if you're putting it on credit cards, which is what you said. So, how can we bring in some more money? Tell us, is there any margin of time? Is there anything you could do that is work from home?

That is something you can do on the internet when the kids are asleep. Is there any margin of time there? >> School tutoring, something.

>> I have looked into all that and with it just being me, we have no family here.

Um, I have to pick up my kids at a certain time and I'm telling you, by the time I get home after dealing with high schoolers all day, I'm exhausted and then I have to come home and be mom.

>> And I have looked online to do like online tutoring and things like that, but like by the time I get my own kids situated, like it's too late to do anything else. >> Where's your family?

>> Like your extended family? >> Three states away. >> Okay. What caused you to come to South Carolina?

Um cuz the cost of living was cheaper.

>> Okay. And your family where where you said three states away. Where are they?

>> Um Virginia.

>> Okay. Okay. Got it. Um I want to know

about here's what I'm talking about.

You're in a place it sounds like you're a little isolated where there's not folks you can reach out to that might be able to help you uh be able to free up a little margin to be able to work more.

That's one thought that I'm having. Other thought is, like I said, this house is too expensive. Um, is there a

place where we can move and teach and maybe make more as a teacher and be able to have a lesser rent? These are the the problems that we have to solve because I think you and I can both agree. We can't keep going as it is. Right.

>> Right. >> How much do you have to change?

>> I'm sorry. What' you say? >> What What's your total debt right now?

um the $7,000 on a credit card with an interest rate of 23%.

>> Plus the 4,000 on the car.

>> Yes. >> So we're at 11,000 total.

>> Yes. >> Okay. That's all the debt.

>> Okay. Well, the good news is as far as debt goes, that's one of the lower numbers we've heard on the show. But the problem right now is you're underwater every month and there's no hope that the income's going to go up or the expenses are going to go down, at least until the car is paid off.

So, are have you stopped going into debt? Are you able to float the bills right now and just get by or are you going swiping that credit card every month?

>> I'm able to pay my bills with my income.

What I'm putting on the card is groceries, gas, and like toiletries, household items, stuff like that.

>> Yeah. You're not going out doing the most, having fun on credit cards. You're just surviving.

>> Correct. >> And that that that's the part. Yeah. So, yeah. when June, July comes and you're able to uh get the 550 back, that is

going to help, right? Cuz how much every single month are you putting on credit cards? Do you know the exact number?

>> Oh my gosh. Um groceries alone is like

at least about $800 a month.

>> And then if I'm having to get gas cuz I

drive a SUV, that could be like >> three 320 a month. And then like

toiletries and things like that, maybe another two.

>> Yeah. So 1,300 a month burn rate, it's

too much cuz if you keep doing that until June, July, you're going to look up and instead of having Yeah.

>> So I'm saying that I I I don't want to

scare you. I'm not trying to I'm trying to give you hope to see, hey, if we can shake this loose, you can get to a better situation. But it can't stay like this. We got to look at housing that's

less expensive. We've got to look start looking tonight. My homework for you tonight is let's look at teacher salary in other states. Let's look at the ways to increase your teacher salary.

Let's look at those sorts of things um and start getting some ideas of how you can make a little bit more money there on the side. Then I want you to look at okay where where are some people? Where is my family? Let me look at uh cost of rent over there.

Let me see uh what it would take to get a three-bedroom apartment or what would it look like to have a two-bedroom apartment for a season and have uh three kids in the room and two kids in the living room on a pullout couch.

>> Fair enough. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And I'm saying it because I love you. No part of this no part of what it's going to take in this next season is going to be fun. What is going to be fun is when you finally get out of debt, when you can finally sleep at night cuz the bills are paid, the groceries are bought, the gas is bought, and none of it was on a credit card. That's going to feel it's going to feel so good. It will make all the sacrifices worth it.

>> Right. >> What's the age range of the kids?

>> They are 17, 11, 9, 5, and two.

>> Okay. What's the 17-year-old doing?

>> Um, she's in school. She's a junior in high school. >> Is she working part-time?

>> She's actually about to start next week.

She got a job um at Burger King, actually. >> Okay, good. This might be a hard conversation as you know, she enters adulthood. And you know, let her know what's going on cuz if she can help out during this time, even covering her own stuff, and say, "Hey, I got to cover the young kids.

If you can cover your own bills, that's going to really help mom out as she tries to climb out of this hole and get out of debt." Uh that's going to be a tough conversation. But as the kids get older, hopefully they're out of daycare. This is a a season. It's going to be longer than you want it to be, but it's a season.

And if you can get rid of that car payment and daycare is off the books and maybe we move to renting longterm or we get the income up, then we can breathe. So, we got a lot of variables to solve here.

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[music]

>> [music]

>> Yeah. [music] Welcome back to the Ramsay

Show. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw. If you're enjoying the show or any other Ramsey show, hit the like button, hit the subscribe button, hit the share button, wherever you're watching or listening. It means the world to us and it helps spread the word and get this into more ears and uh hopefully help change some people's lives. Tim is in Detroit up next. What's going on, Tim?

>> Hey guys, thanks for having me on.

>> Absolutely. What's your question?

>> So, I I've recently run into u I guess a

tough conversation with my wife. She got together with some friends and kind of talking about our financial situation. I pretty much run the show. I don't re her

in too much or anything, but I've been accused now of being kind of financially manipulative or controlling. And I'm hoping for maybe a diagnosis from you guys or some advice on how to how to navigate this.

>> Well, I I love that you're bringing this

up and saying I I want help. I think

that alone lets me know that there's a lot of hope here. Um if what's being said is true. I will say based on the first words that you said like you know I kind of run the show that does make me think okay one person is carrying way more of this load than they should. Now, I will say it's one thing if you have

said, "Honey, I got this. I'll do it.

Matter of fact, I don't really need your involvement." And it's been like that.

And it's another story if she's kind of been like, "Fine with you doing it.

She's been fine with you handling it.

She's not shown an interest in it." That it takes two to tango on that part.

Right. So, tell me how it's been and and

be honest. Has it been more of the latter or more of the first scenario?

Uh, you know, we're we're a very good team. Um, finance in general tends to

make her a little bit nervous. So, this kind of happened out of necessity. We both came into our marriage with basically nothing. A little bit of debt on both sides, worked our way out of it.

We're basically on baby step six. Um,

and the system that's kind of evolved

is, uh, she has one debit card, access to

one account, and just kind of does her daily spending on that. I'm paying all the bills and making sure money goes into all the IAS, paying the mortgage.

>> Does she have the passwords to all the other stuff?

>> She has passwords to maybe about half of

it. She doesn't have passwords to like the retirement stuff only because she

has really no input. I give her kind of a you know a checkin maybe every six months or so. >> But if she asked for it if she asked for it and said, "Tim, can you send me the passwords to everything?" Would you have a problem with giving them to her?

>> No, absolutely not. Okay. >> And in the past, she she ran her own IRA and stuff. And I would, you know, have to remind her to kind of, hey, go in, reinvest your dividends and stuff like that. And >> um >> so where do you think this is coming from with her friends? >> Comfortable handing off, but now, you know, it's been kind of called into question. >> Has she come to you with this before she spilled the tea with her her friends?

>> No. This all this all kind of happened organically the system that we have and now that she's revealed it to her friend group they've said hey that it's messed up. >> They so they were like hey red flags and then your wife came to you and said hey I was talking to my friends and they're seeing some red flags with the way you're managing our money.

>> Yeah they are saying hey she should have Yeah. She should have more input more say >> and she should >> I would like to >> Yeah. I would like to say too I I don't restrict her spending in any way. She has the same >> sort of freedoms that I do. Similar spending patterns.

>> I don't think this is an indictment on you. >> She's packages.

>> Yeah. >> I don't think it's I don't I don't think this is an indictment on you based on what you're saying. I think like you said, this kind of has happened organically. I think out of necess necessity, like you said, you kind of took the wheel on things and it just ended up this way.

I think her friends may have heard her say something without full context and maybe they were like, "Oh, girl, you got to change this, right? Whatever." What I what I'm hearing is what happens, I think, in a lot of relationships where one spouse money is not really their bag. They don't really care a whole lot about it, so they're fine with letting the other spouse do it. The problem with that is what we're seeing now, which is something happens and there feels like a bit of a loss of control.

suddenly they're feeling like maybe I don't know what's going on and I should know what's going on. The truth is it's on both of you guys.

I really think it's probably pretty simple to get it back on track. I think it's you telling her what you just told me which is you know what honey this has happened and it's just as much on me. I I I should have pulled you in more and I should have made sure that and let you know that it's really important for me for you to be an equal part in this. And for that part, I'm sorry.

Going forward, I do I think both of us should have a handle on what's going on. I am happy to show all the passwords.

log into everything. I want full transparency, but I also need from you going forward to demonstrate interest in this so that

it can be both of us on this. What do you think she'd say to that?

>> It's I I I think she'd probably like to hear that. You know, like I said, the

finances have caused her a lot of anxiety in the past and that's how we ended up here. I think even >> Wait, go back. Why? Why anxiety?

>> Um, when when we got together and when we got married, I I had a tiny bit of debt, but, you know, a couple of bucks. She was in more debt than I was, and I, you know, kind of caused a little bit of shame and we dug her out of that and everything. And I think maybe to date, she still kind of holds some of that.

And, um, >> okay. But we've done really well and it's been, you know, she she works, I work, and um uh it's all it's all been

okay. But I'm not sure really what she

would do with that information or if she

would even go in and check it. I mean,

yeah, I would never deny her any of those things. >> So, if I were you, I mean, we're talking numbers. We started talking numbers, but it does sound like it's an emotional conversation to me. And I'd start there.

>> That's where I would start with the conversation. I'd say, "Hey, I've really been thinking about what you said and numbers, account information aside, rest assured, we can share all that. I just want to understand how how the how long have you guys been married? I want to, you know, how how has the last 15 years made you feel?

I'm thinking about when we came in this relationship with debt, it felt like you were carrying some shame. I I I want to know about that.

>> Yeah, I I appreciate that. I can I can do that, >> you know, because she might be thinking if she's still carrying that shame. I mean, the thing you got to understand with financial shame is she it's not just something I did. It's an identity that I now am.

I'm the one who was bad with money. I'm the one who slowed us down. I'm the one who wrecked everything, right? >> I don't deserve a vote in this marriage when it comes to money.

>> Yes. >> And that turns into when you just heard Gabin with the gals, oh my gosh, he's so controlling. He doesn't let you have a say and now she's going to have an existential crisis. And so I think this is this is between you two.

I don't like that it's even gotten this far where it's turned into like a a gossip mill and her friends are involved. Uh this is just a marriage issue where we go, "Hey, we have not been on the same page communicating. We've done well in spite of all of that. we're doing good financially and I need to bring you into it and I need you to care so that this doesn't turn into you saying, "Well, I never I never knew.

You never told me." And so, again, to Jade's point, she needs to be interested and curious and you need to be forthcoming. And then we need to be aligned. If we played the newlywed game and I said, "Hey, what's y'all's net worth? What's your next financial goal?

How much are you investing?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's probably the difference because she I don't think could really answer any of those questions, >> you know, >> and right, it's probably because like it feels overwhelming. She feels shame.

She's not the type of person who understands all of this stuff. And so what you can do really well is put the cookies on the bottom shelf and just help her understand what you're doing in a non-patronizing way and say, "We're a team. We're building this thing together. And I want to make sure you know where we're going so that you're not upset when we get there."

>> Understood. Yeah, >> I think you guys will get on the same page. I I love that this happened for you. I think this is going to be a catalyst for a much more open, a much

more trusting, much more transparent relationship, not just with money, but the two of you as people. Um, you want to know what? I'm going to send you my book, What No One Tells You About Money.

It's not going to come until later cuz it's still on pre-order, but we're going to write your name down. We're going to send it to you and your wife so you can read it because the emotional part of money is the part that nobody talks about. And a lot of times it holds people back like we've seen uh Tim with you and your wife. But no longer. I'm going to help you fix it.

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Well, Jade, a lot of the calls so far this hour are less about the math and

the money and more about the emotions behind it. >> Absolutely. >> I'm scared because I can't make ends meet and I'm continually going to debt.

I have shame because of my past financial mistakes and now I don't trust myself to even be involved when it comes to money in my marriage. And I love what you talk about in your new book, What No One Tells You About Money. because you're finally telling us the emotional fight is real and you got to be aware of it. >> That's right. I mean, we've all been guilty of it. We're looking for We know there's a problem and we're looking for the fix and there is a solve, right?

There's a proven plan. We know the baby steps work if you work it, but we forget to talk about the person in the mirror who has the ability to steer the whole thing off course, right? And it's because our emotions. I mean, just in the last 45 minutes, George, we had to tell somebody to sell their house. We've had to tell people to have difficult relationship with uh conversations with their spouse. That is not easy. That is

that has nothing to do with dollars and cents. That has to do with how are you feeling? That has to do with giving up a piece of you that you've worked so hard for. That has to do with dealing with past mistakes. That is all emotional.

Has nothing to do with the debt snowball. You see what I'm saying? And so, you need both. And so, that's why I wrote this book because I I mean I >> You've been there.

I know what it feels like, George, to, you know, stand in the mirror and you're just crying because your life is not what you thought it would be at this point >> and you wish someone told you. So, here's Jade telling you. So, go get the book. It's on pre-order right now for $24.99.

You get over a hundred bucks in free bonuses like the enhanced audio book, early access to the ebook, instant access to a Jade video, your financial checkup, and a book exclusive 3-week online book club with a live Q&A with Jade. So, go check it out.

If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the description. Michael is in Columbia, South Carolina. Up next, welcome to the show, Michael. How can we help?

>> Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Um, first off, I want to say I started taking FPU in January of this year, and it has completely changed the way I look at my finances, has really helped me uh

crush a lot of my debt. So, the class is highly worth it. Um, >> love to hear that. Yeah, I in January when I put all my debts down on paper, uh total of 10 credit cards and two

vehicle payments, uh two vehicle notes, I was around $90,000 in debt. I've brought that down to 655 in the past 10

months. >> Good. Awesome. >> Um I cut up seven of the 10 credit cards. There's three that are still open that have a balance on them and then the two vehicles um are the majority of that

balance. >> Okay. So, my question is, anytime I've got an extra income, I've put it towards the debt snowball. I'm trying to get out of baby step two as fast as possible.

I have a unique situation and I have uh my stepson is 19, our child is nine.

Back in 2019, I had a little bit of extra income. I put it into a 529 account for both of them, about 4,000 each. >> Mhm. That has gone up. When my

19-year-old graduated high school in 2024, he went to a local community college totaling about $3,000 for both

semesters, which is very affordable.

>> After the semester ended last year, he came to us said, "I'm not interested in college. I don't want to go." >> So, I was told the people that manage

the 529 account, I can just roll his amount into my son, my younger son's amount. Mhm.

>> My question is between their two 529 accounts, it's about $11,500.

I have roughly 8 to9 years before my youngest even will go to college.

>> Mhm. >> I know I get penalized for taking money out of the 529 account for use if I'm not using it for school. >> That's right. >> Is it worth it taking that money out now, getting penalized and putting it towards my debts? uh and then you know

building it back up for my younger son after I'm debtree or is it better to keep it in those accounts for the time being until he goes to school 8 n years from now if he goes to school eight or nine years from now. >> Um I have some thoughts in my head about it. Can you tell me more about these cars though before I tell you my thoughts? >> Yeah. Uh, I'm sure it's not the Dave

Ramsey way, but these were purchased.

Uh, we moved to South Carolina 3 years ago and we drove Hoopies for a long time. So, in 2022, right after we moved,

I did end up buying my wife a more reliable vehicle. I bought her a 2022 that had uh 2022 Hyundai that has about 15,000 left on it.

>> 15,000? What's it worth if you sold it?

Just curious. >> Uh, that I don't have off top my head. I do not know. Do you think you're upside down? >> No. No. Honestly, I one one of the things when I took SPU, the reason I took it was that I was I'm like, I make good money. My wife makes okay money, so like how do we just never have money?

And >> when I looked at stuff as like, oh, we're paying for this, we're paying for this. So, I feel like the last 10 months, we've really turned our life around financially where I I handle the finances solely. Not that I don't keep my wife involved. It was just when we got together, she's like, "I'm not into finances.

I don't >> Did you hear the last call?" >> I did. And I was actually laughing during [laughter] it because it's the exact same thing. My wife, I tell my wife all of our financial stuff, but she just is not, she doesn't want to pay the bills. She lets me handle that.

And that was even before we got married. When we got engaged, she's like, "I'm going to have you handle the finances." >> Interesting. We'll talk more about that later.

>> Car number two is a vehicle that I bought for myself. Uh, it's a it was a 2024 that I bought in 2024, a Toyota truck. The vehicle I had before it I drove literally until I don't want to hear about the ex-girlfriend about this car because what you're doing is a brand new truck. >> You're qualifying it before you tell us.

And we don't care. We don't care.

>> I don't care if the engine blew [laughter] up on the last one and so you went to the dealership and you got they suckered you in. >> We want you to be debtree and we're not going to let you excuse yourself out of it. We want you to hit your goals. So tell us about car number two.

This 2024 truck. >> Car number Yeah. car number two. I planned on at the time, this before FPU, I planned on buying a used vehicle.

Um when I went to the dealership, the used vehicle, this was not that much more expensive than the used vehicles at the time.

>> Oh, [laughter] it was it was 54,000

out the door. >> Okay. What do you owe now? >> Um what I have 30 on it.

>> So you've been paying it down. >> I Yeah. And I know you talk about emotional spending. I did get a nice bonus that year, like a very large bonus.

So I was like, I'm going to spoil myself with a new vehicle >> instead of paying off the other debt. You were like, you know what? Let's still go into debt. >> Yeah, this is But yeah, this is prefu before I knew all this stuff.

>> Sure. But common sense would say, let's maybe try to get out of the hole before we dig a new one. >> It it would. And I'm taking my glasses off because yet again, George, this is all it is all emotional.

all your caveats, all of the things that you were trying to qualify, it's emotional and I get that.

You were tired. You were tired. You were frustrated. You wanted to feel like your income was being spent on the things that you enjoy, right? Am I wrong?

>> You were tired of driving. You're tired of driving hoopies. You're a man. You want your wife to feel like she's, you know, that you love her and you want to spoil her a little bit. I I see it. I hear it. I have felt it. I understand.

and you called in trying to figure out

how to get out of debt faster. True.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, the plan the, you know, the the debt snowball is working for me, but I'm any extra money I'm having come

in, I'm trying to throw at that.

>> I just want to get that debt down as fast as possible. >> What's your income?

>> Uh, after tax, I make about 72 a year.

>> That's with your wife.

No, no. My wife makes probably about

hers is kind of up in the air because when we moved, she doesn't work full-time. So, she kind of has the luxury of >> what's a normal. >> Can she work full-time?

>> She Yes, she's actually in the past 2 3

months, she has started working more hours. >> Because right now, we don't have the luxury of working part-time. Correct. We both need to be working full-time plus.

So, >> between the two of us pre-tax, we're probably closer to 120 a year. Okay. And

so what, like 7,000 a month? 7,500 a

month. >> Yeah, just around. Yeah, I'd say that's the the sweet spot right there.

>> Oh, go ahead, George. >> I want I just want to make sure we answer your question. I would not crack open my child's piggy bank to essentially make my truck payment.

>> No. >> And so I would be selling that truck.

And the truth is, you're going to pay income tax on that college money. You're going to pay a 10% penalty. So that 11,000 quickly turns into seven grand.

And you're unplugging the growth. Yeah.

Which that's gonna, you know, double, triple by the time your kid's in college. >> And that's if you do nothing to it. So I don't want to unplug the growth. I don't want to pay all these taxes and penalties while this money is growing taxfree. And for that reason, I would sacrifice for my own life before >> hurting the kids' future. So that's what I personally would do is sell the truck, work extra. I would not touch the 529.

>> Yeah, I agree. And for other reasons, too. It's too much of your world to have this much tied up in vehicles that are going down in value. >> Yeah, [music] that is very true. You got some nice cars in that driveway. I'd rather see you guys building wealth [music] instead of driving a truck that's going down in value every day.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Jay Warshaw. Open phones at88255225.

Joseph is in Pittsburgh up next. What's going on, Joseph?

>> Yes. >> What's happening?

>> What's going on? How are you?

>> Good. What's your question today?

>> Uh, my girlfriend going to be fiance is

going and I are going to be bu building a house costing around $700,000 and we

want to know if we're way over our heads or if this is actually feasible.

>> Numbers aside, you're in way over your heads. There's not even a ring on the finger and you're going to sign up for a mortgage and put your names on a deed together.

No, the by the time that the deed is there, there would be a ring on the finger.

>> So, this is going to be a new build and you're just hoping that all the plans work out perfectly.

>> Yes. Um, we we do have the ability to live with either of our parents rentree.

Um, obviously that's not ideal, but we're going to have to do that.

>> Um, being built. >> Why do we have to do any of this? Yes.

>> Tell let me lay out a different path and you tell me why it doesn't work for you guys. >> Why not get engaged, get married, rent

together, save up on your own, and then

purchase a house or build when you're financially ready? >> Yeah. What's the rush? >> So, we would like to start a family early um around 2028, 2027. And our

initial thoughts are renting is putting money into a place that doesn't build us wealth. So, we might as well put it towards a house that's going to be building us wealth. And if we have to live with our parents for a year or two, we're perfectly fine with that because we do have stable jobs that we're able to >> How much money do you guys have right now? >> Money off of >> Right now, we have about

$60,000 in savings and then a little bit more in checking. >> How much do you plan on putting down on this $700,000 house?

So, we are looking to put down around between 100 and 130,000 down on the house. And then her parents are extremely wealthy and they were planning on matching whatever >> we put down. So, 260.

>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. And why do you need a $700,000 home as newlyweds >> in Pittsburgh? >> We are looking We are looking to have kids. So, it's in the suburbs and we're going to be building so that we don't have as many maintenance house issues.

Um, simply put, we're trying to set ourselves up for the future where we don't have to move. We don't have to do all these other things. We're just on that path of get a house and live there.

>> What's your incomes? >> Not a custom build. Um, our income, we

are both around 32 to 35,000 a month.

>> A month?

Yes. And that is not including commission. >> So you both earn >> not a thousand 3,200.

>> Good. I was about to show

>> I was like, "Well, yeah, you guys are making [laughter] a million dollars." Okay, so you're making like 70 grand and you're How are you going to afford a $5,000 a month mortgage?

>> Yeah, that's what I'm doing cuz I just We both did the math. That's funny. >> We also >> So we also She has commission. She is an

insurance agent, so she has commission coming back for her. I also own my own company that brings in 2 to 3,000 as well on top of that a month.

>> So, you're at 10,000

>> a month. >> About that. Yeah. >> So, we're already setting ourselves up where half of our take-home pay goes toward the mortgage. >> Yeah. You're still at half. Before you were even worse, but even with the 10,000, what I'm seeing on here,4500

for for the mortgage, if you put down $ 260 on a $700,000 house, you're house

poor. >> Right.

>> Right. >> And you're fine with that?

>> No, we're not fine with that at all. We we're obviously going to be expanding our our income. We're trying to see if

this is feasible now because we do have

career projections going forward that it

won't be anywhere close to that as well as my business and her commission are

projected to double. >> Everything you're saying, Joseph, I'm I'm with you. I love dreams. Like I love a good dream. I love to plan. I love goals. But you're setting yourself up um in a situation where everything must go as planned for this to work out. And even if it does go as planned, you're still setting yourself up for several years of a situation where your house is 50% where your house poor for several years. So even if everything is perfect, you're still setting that up, which is not good. I truly truly would love for

you to slow down a little bit on this

and say, "Okay, let's do all of this, but let's just do it in the right order and at the right time. Let's get married.

Then if you want to live with your parents, that's your prerogative. I wouldn't do it. But if you want to live with the parents to save more money faster, like that's y'all's choice if you want to do that. And then save up.

Make sure when you do buy a house when it's time that it's the right percentage of your takehome. Make it to where you're not house poor. You have this amazing deal where your in-laws are going to match that amount. That's awesome. Milk it for all it's worth and make sure you get to a point where you can get this thing to 25%. Okay. Then

you're in a situation. I'm fine with you guys doing this thing believing that this is going to be the only house you ever buy for the next 20 years. If you want to believe that, that's okay. But let's Can we just do it right? Can we pump the brakes just a little so it's all done in the right time?

>> Yeah. Is this a thing where to increase our incomes first or a savings and

emergency fund kind of deal? >> I think it's both. And you said that there's a there's a path where both of you guys earn more. And it's it's as you

do that, you're saving up more, too, right? Because I'm also looking at this on a 15-year fixed. My guess is that you were looking at it on a 30-year. Am I right?

>> Um I I have both in front of me, but yes, I was looking at a 30-year fix.

>> And again, all that you're doing that because you're trying to go fast. I want to go fast.

Why? You have your whole life together.

I get it. I know. I I get it. But

>> so I we are both 21.

>> Who who told you it's too late? Who told you you have to rush into this or else?

And you got to do this by this time and we're going to make this much. I just think we're there's something else going on here where you're wanting to rush the process and leapfrog into a lifestyle that you just can't afford yet.

>> No, we we've been dating for about four years and going to be graduating this upcoming May from college. Um, we're I'm

working around 50 to 60 hours a week.

She's working 30, going to be 40 this upcoming semester.

>> It was just one of those things where >> we were looking at it. Yes, we were dreaming big and we saw that we could afford it and we would still have extra income coming.

>> It's already artificially propped up with the in-laws money >> and so I would go with what you guys can afford. And if you can get a $400,000 threebedroom, I would do that and have a small mortgage that you can knock out quickly and you can upgrade over time because the truth is you're going to hate your house 5 years from now for whatever reason and you're going to move. It's okay to move 6 years from now as your life changes. But we don't need to plan for well one day we're going to have five kids so we might as well get the fivebedroom now and just get ahead of it.

We don't even have a ring on the finger. So I would just do things in order.

You're a planner. You're futuristic. I have a lot of that in me, but I know I fall flat on my face when I make too many plans and one domino doesn't work out. What if she stays home once you guys have kids and you go, "Oh my gosh, well, we projected that her income would be 100,000 by now. This totally screws up our plan." So, I would move real slow and realize you don't need the lifestyle that her parents have today at 21 years old. It's okay for it to take a while.

That's actually healthy.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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[music]

[music]

Gabby's in Springfield, Missouri. Up next. Welcome to the show, Gabby. How can we help?

>> Hi, guys. I'm grateful to be talking with you. I listen to the show all the time. Um, I also want to shout out my husband and my anniversary is today. So, shout out to him. Love you, honey. Um, the heart of my question, thank you. U, the heart of my question is, in working the debt snowball, should I skip to the next biggest debt with the intention for the military to pay off my student loans?

>> How much of a guarantee is this and how long of a journey is it going to be?

>> Uh, great question. So, we are currently in baby step two and working off our debt. We've paid off about 20,000 of our 100,000 so far um over the past several

months and we have about 25,000 in student loans. That's the next step in tackling the debt snowball. I serve in the Army National Guard, but I'm a nurse on the civilian side and my next Army contract begins in May of 2027. When signing a new contract, I basically have two options. either a $10,000 lump sum that's heavily taxed so it equivalates to about 7500 or for the government to pay towards my student loans up to 2,000 a month. Um so in theory they would pay towards all of it over the course of a three-year contract.

>> So $2,000 a month for the entire time.

>> Yes. Correct. >> Start but contract >> but it doesn't even start until 2027.

>> Correct. Yeah. uh with the last contract that I signed, not all of the options were presented to me. So I took to the $10,000 lump sum >> um and it equivalated to about 7,500 and we put that towards debt. Um but we got stupid again. So we, you know, acrewed more debt. So I don't know approximately how much of that, you know, actually made a dent towards it. But um >> but if you do it this way, you're not done till 2030.

>> Correct. Yeah, that's the thing. So, if we continued to pay the minimums on student loans, we would still be paying about 6,500 in the time that it would take to get to May of 2027 >> until my contract renews. But, you know, mathematically, they would be paying off 25,000 in student loans for the sacrifice of, you know, paying the minimums and 6,500. >> So, you have to ask yourself, is the 15,000 because let me just make sure it's a lump sum of 10 or it's pay this

off. it'll take until 2030. So, you have to ask yourself, is the the $15,000

difference, is it worth the next five to

six years of your life, >> right? Yeah. And that's kind of why I'm conflicted and asking you because if it's, you know, them paying towards it and that's, you know, basically free money. >> If this wasn't on the table, would you still sign this contract?

>> Um, >> or is part of it just like, well, there's a good benefit.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's a it's an amazing benefit, but yeah, I would still sign the contract for the fact that the reason um we have awesome insurance through the military. My husband's a type 1 diabetic and civilian side insurance is crazy expensive for him.

So, >> what's your household income? >> Yeah. >> Um so, together we make about 182,000. I

bring in about 4,800 a month. My husband brings in about 4,000 a month. But I have um I'm working three jobs right now, including my military job, my civilian job, and then I also pick up shifts at the hospital since I'm on our civilian side. >> Wow. You guys have kids? >> So picking up extra shift. We do, and we have one on the way. That's another piece of the puzzle. >> Well, that's why I'm going like, are you going to be able to keep this up for 3 years?

>> Um so my civilian job, uh is very

flexible with the timing. So I like I'm staying at home with my daughter today. we just have the one and she's two, but we do have one on the way. Um, and I'm

just like the kind of person that just like grinds and grinds and works and so yes, realistically I probably won't be able to pick up many shifts at the hospital the later I get into my pregnancy. But yeah, ideally like after

the baby comes and we get all settled in, I'll be able to pick up like one shift a week, maybe two.

>> How long do you plan on it taking? So you said there was uh, let me go back.

There was $90,000 of debt. You've already paid off 20, right?

>> Or 100. Did you start with 100?

>> Like >> it was more like 120 to start off with.

So as it currently stands, we're we have about 100,000 in.

>> So you have 100,000 to go. What else is there other than the 25 in student loans? >> Sure. Let me break it down. So we've got about 20,000 in consumer debt. Um that's

like credit cards and things. Uh my husband's car uh we owe about 11,000.

Mhm. >> Um, we replaced our HVAC system earlier this year when it went out, uh, which cost a pretty penny. That one's about 11,000.

>> My car is where we got silly and we got

a new car whenever my last car uh, got totaled. >> Um, we still owe about 32,000 on it. I already Kelly Blueooked it and it was appraising for 25 to 29,000. So 29,00

private sale. >> Okay. Um, is anything else or that that was it? And then the the 25,000 in student loans. So it all equivalates to about 100,000 right now. >> What's your projection for paying off this other 75? Like how long do you guys see this taking you?

>> Yeah. Um right now, uh with our budget,

we can with me picking up extra shifts and getting an extra 2K a month, we have about three 30 3,000 to 3500 in margin

>> a month, maybe a little bit extra >> um that we can throw at debt. So, like this month alone, we paid off three of our smaller debts, which is like a big ego boost, I guess, to keep on going.

So, um hopefully we can pay off all of our debt in the next 18 months, and I

can't remember if the way I calculated it included the 25,000 in student loans or not. >> Is that what you got, George? >> I doubt it cuz the 75 grand 3500 a

month, that's 21 months. That's without the student loans. >> Okay. >> So, >> yeah. And I think that that was just me being like, let me get super aggressive and pick up an extra shift.

>> Yeah. >> A week or so. So, >> I just know as a as a dad of a newborn, it's just life is going to have to slow down a little bit. And so, I don't know that you can keep it the same pace in this season.

And for those reasons, I feel like you guys could just get aggressive right now and start to really tackle this. >> I mean, you could delay the student loans and do the contract May of 27. I don't think that like it's going to be on fire.

>> I kind of like that idea of what George is saying >> even on your own. I don't I just It's not that big of a It's not like they're paying off $150,000 of student loan debt. >> It's a $15,000 swing if you look at it.

>> Yeah. And you guys make $180 grand. So in the grand scheme of life, you could do that in three months on your own dime and be done with it. Because if you still still if you decide to sign the contract in 20 20 boy boy 2027 there's

still the 10K that they could offer as a lump sum and when that comes you can do with it what the baby whatever baby step you're on or whatever life calls for at that moment. So it's not like it's not an all or nothing thing per se. There's still money on the table that you can have in 2027 if it feels right to sign that contract. But I like the freedom of

and the [snorts] openness of just being able to take control of your situation and be done with it when you're ready to be done.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I I I would agree. That's what my father-in-law is swaying towards. But, you know, the the military personnel that I trust, their advice, they're swaying in my direction, which is like just continue to pay the minimums and let the military pay for your >> it's free money like in essence, but when you factor in your time and your emotion and your choice in the matter,

there's that also is has a cost in this equation and we want to not leave that out. >> Do you guys have savings right now?

Um, we are really following the Ramsay plan, so we diminished our savings down to the a thousand. Um, but my husband, you know, with me being pregnant, he's he's getting a little bit more cautious.

So, we're kind of doing Ramsayish as a compromise. >> Well, we'll tell you, let me give you permission to be Ramsay-ish and go just stor. So, it's okay to pause the debt

snowball right now and just stack up cash cuz we just don't know what's going to happen until baby and mom are home safe. So, when is baby due?

>> That's true. uh June of 26.

>> Okay, awesome. Yeah, I mean there could be a great scenario where you guys just stack up a bunch of cash and then you're good. The insurance paid most of it and now we hit play on the baby steps and we have a big pile of cash to throw at these debts.

>> That's true. That's true. >> So, I think that would give you some peace of mind during an already pretty stressful time where you're working multiple jobs, pregnant, trying to handle all this $100,000 of debt. Um,

it's okay for it to not be at, you know,

break neck pace.

>> Okay. Yeah, thank you. I just needed that extra reassurance that everyone tells me to slow down, but I'm just like in that mentality of life is on fire. We need to go while we're young energy.

>> Well, [laughter] it serves you well when it comes to the debtree journey. That's right. But, you know, that stress can take a toll on on you and the baby. So, I'm just looking out for your health as well during this time. the baby steps.

It's a great framework, but life is going to happen. It's okay to hit pause for a moment when you want to be intentional and make sure that you're also protecting your family. [music] So, thank you for the call. Thank you for your service. Uh especially coming on the heels of uh Veterans Day. So, this is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan made just for you.

Simply head to the show notes and click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. Aaron is in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's going on, Aaron?

>> Hey, George. Hey. Um, my wife and I are, you know, kind of batting around the idea of moving back to Raleigh, North Carolina from, um, a small town in South

Carolina, just about 2 hours south. Uh, and just kind of curious how we balanced the desires. So, you know, we got married in October of 21, moved down here in May of 22 and, uh, you know,

wanted to be closer to my wife's family, uh, with us being newly wed and wanting to have kids and we've had some issues with infertility. Um, but, you know,

just kind of curious. I really have been the one that, you know, wants to push to to go back to that area. I've been remote and just feeling a bit stir crazy. Um, and we're in baby step 7. Our

income's about 173,000. So, just kind of

curious what your thoughts are on balancing those desires between my wife wanting to be close to her family um

versus, you know, wanting to be in person for work and just a little bit more to do uh and getting back into our old gyms and routines and things of that nature. >> So, it's not a financial conundrum, it's a quality of life for you guys.

Yeah, quality of life. And it sort of feels like a financial piece because, you know, going from no mortgage to, you know, maybe renting for a year until our house sells and buying a a more expensive house in that area. Um, you

know, so it becomes a little bit of a concern. You know, we've been debtree fully with the house and everything since last September. Um, so it's a

little bit of both. >> So, what's the house worth?

Um, right around 360 to 370.

>> Okay. And what would the house cost in the new area?

>> Uh, in Raleigh, um, maybe 450 on the low end up to 600.

>> Okay. Do you guys have any money saved >> for something 450 to 500?

>> Yeah. Around uh, 30,000.

>> Okay. And then what's the urgency around this? Is this we want to make this happen in two months or two years?

>> Yeah. So, we've been talking about it. I actually the new job that I took is based out of that area, but they let me stay remote because we had some uncertainty about wanting to move.

>> Um, >> that's convenient. >> You know, we were actually supposed to move back in May, but they let me stay remote. >> So, are you stir crazy meaning I want to be in an office and that would that solve this if we got you an office?

>> That's what I'm feeling. Yeah, just being around the house all day.

>> Cuz we can solve that. You can go get an office in your area now.

>> Yeah. That's less about Raleigh and more about just finding you a job where you can be around people.

>> Yeah. So, I was in person. There's pretty much one main employer in this area. I'd have to drive an hour and a half to Charlotte or an hour to Florence. Um, so there's just not really any opportunities. We're in a pretty rural area. And I was working um

whenever we came down here with a local employer, but I left after about two and a half years. There's just poor management and they were doing a lot of fraud and just wasn't comfortable with it. So I started looking for a new opportunity. >> Erin, help me understand. I just want to make sure your wife wants to move or your wife is not sure.

>> Unsure. So she does want to be close to family if we are able to have kids. You know, she likes the idea of being able to be near her family here.

>> Um, >> is your family in Raleigh? >> Also miss the gym. My family is in that area. >> Okay. So it's not just the gym and

creature comforts. Your family is there.

So there's family in each spot.

Okay. >> Yeah. Not as much of a concern for me being you're the family. You know, we're pretty independent. And >> does she like your family? Like are they are you guys really great relationship with her with your family?

>> Yeah, I think so. I think it's um I don't think she would be as comfortable like if we had kids with my mom and dad, you know, just their house can be a little bit chaotic versus her home is or her family is uh a little bit more put together in that sense. >> Okay. >> I think that's a fear from her side for sure. >> I Yeah, I I go back to what we said before. I'm not sure that Raleigh is

I'm trying to kind of prioritize what you're saying. It sounds like I feel like I heard you say being in office or

you know being around people is was the number one thing. Then for you it sounded like the number one thing. Did you say like being able to go back to our gym? Is did I hear you say that?

>> Yeah. Just like lifestyle more to do actually having like a gym to go to and more things to

>> area. Okay. So >> is it >> Yeah, she used to always love going to HomeGoods and stuff like that, you know. So, we kind of miss we both miss that piece for sure. >> Got it. Got it. Got it. Um I mean for me

the house thing I think if you guys really want to do this it's just a matter of saying okay we make a good salary now. Can we save up um a good portion of this to where if we do take out a mortgage is really really small and then we're committed to knocking it out pretty quickly. I don't think there's anything wrong with this. >> Yeah.

It's it's you know if you call Dave you'd say well it's ideal if you did 100% cash. That'd be awesome. But it's not. We're not going to yell at you for taking out a 15 year, knocking it out early, you're going to do that regardless.

So, my take is I would do it. Make it an adventure. And you can always undo it if it's just terrible in Raleigh and this was not what you thought it was. I I do think it's wise to rent.

I know it feels like you're throwing away money, but if you just rent for even six months >> to a year and get your bearings, figure out what area you want to live in, figure out what area has the right schools and how close to family you want to be. All of that is going to play into it. >> Yeah. And don't buy don't buy anything until this old one sells, please.

That's >> Yeah. You don't want two mortgages on your hands. You won't have a mortgage on this one >> until it's sold. >> And you can still time that.

I mean, it's it's very much possible and you can make it contingent, but you're going to be uh it's going to be easier if you already have your home sold and now you have all that cash sitting there.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. My biggest thing was just kind of the weight of, you know, those different values like my wife with being close to her family versus, you know, some of those lifestyle choices. Like I said, it wasn't as big of a concern being you're my family. >> She's got to be on board. >> Feel like I could move to >> I could move to Tennessee or Georgia, you know, but >> it's not a financial thing on our end.

Your wife's just got to be on board with it. I think that's more of I think that's the biggest question I hear is >> is she 100% with you on, man, we just we

got to get out of here. We got to go to Raleigh. Um she might be saying things like, oh, I wish there was a HomeGoods or I wish there was things, but does she actually want to move? Um sit down tonight. like you guys go on a date this weekend or do something where you're really laying this thing out. Um, make

sure you're on the same page about it.

It's not a financial problem.

>> I can tell you that.

>> It's just you guys >> and you guys aren't pregnant yet and there's hope that you could be in the next few months. What's the timeline there?

>> Yeah, we've been battling infertility for the last two years. So, it's still a

work in progress there. >> Yeah, I mean that's its own journey. And so the the question is, do we want to, you know, keep this up for a few more years before we make a big decision to move? Because, you know, if you guys get pregnant, and I hope you do, well, now we have at least some concrete next steps.

There's there's something happening that sort of starts this the catalyst. And in the meantime, if you want to get out of the house, get out of the house and go find somewhere to work, maybe even lease a spot that's cheap, somewhere you can rent out, a little office to get away.

>> Mhm. But good luck, man. There's a lot going on. I don't think there's any bad moves here. >> The only bad way is if you drag her through this and she's kicking and screaming and you're like, "We said this is going to be awesome." So, that's the tough part is the relational aspect of just getting aligned on, "Hey, we said we're doing this. Now, we got to make peace with that decision." And it is a big one, but again, it's nothing's fatal here. So, I wish you the best of luck.

>> Quality of life, George, is a big, you know, we can't forget about that all the We're asking people to sacrifice to win and there's a time and place for that.

You know, you you might have a season where you work a job you don't really like to get the paycheck so you can pay off the debt, right? But the overarching picture, the biggest piece of life, yeah, you should be doing work that you enjoy. You should be in a in a community and in an environment that you that you enjoy. If family is close to you, yeah, like we want that for you.

Quality of life matters. >> And that's why the baby steps matter even more in these cases cuz if you have financial peace, you got options. But if you're in crippling debt and you don't have the income to support it, you're out of options. And so I love that they're doing this the right way.

Baby step seven, no mortgage. And they're going, "Yeah, we could do it either way financially." It's the emotional part we got to wrestle with. >> And that part can be even more difficult sometimes.

[music]

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or just use the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Dan is in DC up next. What's going on, Dan?

Hey guys, how are you?

>> Great. How can we help today? >> Awesome. So, um, a couple things. I'll give you the the quick synopsis of it.

Um, I'm looking to find a best way to invest a million dollars. Um, >> was hypothetical or real?

>> It's real. It's actually crazy. U, so

what happened was, um, my wife, she's a,

uh, she works for a big box retailer.

Um, she makes about 200. I own my own business. I make about 75.

Um, we own a home. It's We bought it at

>> [clears throat] >> um about 365,000.

We owe 260 on it right now, but the interest rate is 3%. And we have a son who's 13. We've got a 529 for him.

There's about 30,000 in it right now. My wife's got a 401k that has about 315,000

in it. Um, she puts in

7% of her pay and the company matches 5%.

Um, there's there's stock options as well with her. And what happened was my

business that I own, we came into a very lucrative deal. Um, we considered it's probably going to be a one-time shot unless something else happens again. Um, but we're considering it a one time shot. Uh it was a $2 million gross uh

business and we netted just over a million dollars from that. So

>> Wow. from the deal. Is it a full buyout?

>> Uh it was not a buyout. No, I still own the company. Uh we just we just got a

very really awesome opportunity. We took

it and it worked out really well. Okay.

So, so basically, right, um, we had we

had 130,000 in debt when we started

Ramsay's Baby Steps about 5 years ago, and that was just from cars, student loan, credit card debt. Uh, so that is

paid off. Super happy with that. Um, our

house again, we owe 260. It's only 3% um

loan on it right now. But my thought is

uh you know, we don't need the million dollars. Uh we're in a different situation, right? My wife makes really good money. We make money. We're fine.

>> Do we put this in different investments?

Uh should I throw a h 100,000 into my kids 529 and just let it sit there so

that way that is covered? Um, should I

utilize like a personal advisor? We went

to a couple different like banks or or folks just in general. Um, you know, they want fairly decent amount of money to manage our money.

>> U, so personal advisors, they want around 1.2%.

Robo advisors online, they're much cheaper. Uh I just got done a conversation with a Vanguard and they want.3% and they give because of the amount of money that we have available to invest.

They'll give us um a you know a real

person. So that's already kind of the the winner on it in my mind. And we're

looking to hopefully retire faster now.

So, uh, we're both 40 and it would be

great if we could retire say 55, >> maybe a little bit earlier if the investment strategies are right.

>> Yeah. >> But, um, >> there are a lot of good things on the table here. >> So, you're you're saying you're going to net a million million net income lands in a savings account. What do you do today?

>> Yep. It's there in the it's there in the money market. >> Okay. [laughter] I can tell you're you're really good at numbers. you know your stuff, which is very impressive and that bodess well for you. I would, here's what I would do personally. I would pay off the mortgage today. And I know you're going to say, "Well, it's 3%.

It's three. Why would I pay off a 3% mortgage?" I would do it for the peace of mind, for the risk factor, and for the fact that you can now invest what was your mortgage payment. >> Mhm. >> And that's going to really free you guys up to retire earlier when you have no mortgage left. And then you're still going to have a ton of money left over.

So, I would put maybe 40 or 50K into that 529 and frontload it.

>> I would do that. >> You don't want to overfund it cuz if you put 100K in there and that money doubles in the next 7 years as your kid heads off to college, there could be, you know, 250,000 might that might be reasonable for what college costs 7 years from now. So, if you wanted to just frontload it and then never put another dime in, you'll probably have 200 plus,000 in there by the time college rolls around. I would also enjoy some of it.

So, I would do something fun, plan a trip. You guys have no other consumer debt, right?

>> We have no other debt. No, just the house. >> Great. >> Wow, that's great. >> So, you've got some spending goals.

Let's do something fun and enjoy the fruits of our labor. Let's have some giving goals. Let's give generously and do something that blows our mind that we thought we would never be able to do.

And then let's have some saving and investing goals. And part of that is getting rid of the mortgage to then free up money to build wealth because now that really increases your net worth.

Uh, so there's a few things you could do. I think all of it's good. If you feel comfortable handling the investment side on your own or through Vanguard, that's fine. You can park it in an index fund for now. That's probably what I would do. And, you know, it can start simple. You know, if you're happy with what you're invested in in your 401ks, that's a great place to start. like those same funds or similar funds.

That's a great place to start, especially if they're um [snorts] well diversified and you know, you're split between growth and income and aggressive growth and international and all of that. I feel like that's a great place to start. And yeah, >> I would also max out all of your tax advantage retirement options first. And so her 401k, maybe she goes in and ratches it up that contribution through the end of the year to max it out if she hasn't already.

I don't think she has based on 7% of her 200,000 salary. So, you could do that to start. You could do some backdoor Roth IAS if you guys don't qualify for um Roth IAS because of your income. >> And you can max out an HSA if you have access to a health savings account.

So, there's a lot of things you can do that are tax advantage. And for that reason, that would be the reason I work with a financial adviser, not because of, well, this one charges this fee, this one charges this fee.

>> Okay? >> So, I would sit down with your wife tonight and just kind of have a little dream date and go, here's all the things we could do. Let's prioritize from this million dollars. What's the first thing we're going to do? Pay off the mortgage.

What's the next thing we're going to do? Fund the front load the 529. Next thing we're going to do, max out the 401ks and backdoor Roths and whatever other options we have. Then whatever's left, I would just park in an index fund for now or even a high yield savings account until you know what you want to do next.

>> Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate it.

Yeah, that's we're we're looking at maxing out the IRA, maxing out um like

an HSA and um and trying to do that. I

don't h I have a small 401k that I started the business about five years ago uh that we took some money out of just to uh just to start it and so

luckily she makes enough that I can play with this business and it worked out.

>> That's so awesome. Way to go.

>> I'm super pumped for you guys. That's fantastic. And the good news is this this extra money lay that's laying around in the index fund that can kind of become a bridge account for you guys to make it from you know 55 years old to

59 and a half to where you can access retirement without penalty. So it's a great strategy if you want to be work optional. My guess is a guy like you is probably going to be like a serial entrepreneur and just jump back into another new exciting thing.

>> Yeah. >> Or consulting. >> And so this this is really a a best case scenario. I love getting a call like this. I know. It's a great problem to have. >> It's a fun money. >> What do I do with a million? Cuz usually if someone says that, it's a 23-year-old who's a hypothetical.

>> Yeah. >> How do I get a million? What do I do with a million? I'm like, well, how much do you have?

I got 4,000. I'm like, okay, [laughter] well, call us back when you have the money, but I can tell you what I would do with it. >> Yeah. This is the real deal.

Very, very good. Exciting. And that's that's a tough one, Jade, with a 3% mortgage because I hear a lot of these people are hanging on to these lowinterest mortgages going, "Well, I can make more in a savings account, so why would I?" >> Yeah. >> And it's so much more than just a math problem.

It's so much more than arbitrage and spread and leverage.

risk. [music] It's peace of mind. And talk to people who paid off their mortgage. I haven't talked to, "Dang it, I regret that. I lost my 3% mortgage." [music] Cuz you know what my interest rate is on my mortgage? Zero. Oh, it doesn't exist. So, I'll take that over 3% any day. And they're going to build wealth [music] just fine without the spread. So, congratulations, guys.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, flying solo this hour, taking your calls at88255225.

You call up, I'll try to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Janine is with us in Newark, New Jersey. What's going on, Janine?

>> Hi. Um, so there's uh some discrepancies

between how my husband and I think about

finances. We've been married uh it'll be 31 years next week. And um just today I

we were looking at some cash and um we

were going to pay um to have some work

done. Anyway, uh he left me a note

saying he left $1,300. Uh he doesn't have any more. he'd have to go to the bank. And um I know for a fact that

there was 2,200 in an envelope. And so I know he lied.

And um I also had a discussion earlier

with him about tithing um and the fact

that that has not been something that is consistent uh with him because he is in control of

finances and he said that he would uh he

can't talk about the past but he can just do better in the future. But I've heard that before because I've had this conversation about the tithing before.

So, how am I supposed to trust him with,

you know, the past history in tithing and the fact that um,

you know, I believe he lied about the the cash that was in the house.

>> I think we can agree on that. There was Did you confront him and say there was 2,200? Why is there 13? Where'd the $900

go? >> No, he did say he left some to uh for

for some spending money. and he had set

the money in a in a safe. Um, but I have

the the code to the safe because he's, you know, for your protection if you need to get in here. >> Sure. >> To use. >> And was there $900 in there?

>> Well, I I looked the other day and it was the the 2,200 and then I looked again today after I received that text about the 1300 and I looked and I didn't

I didn't count it, but I there was more.

It was more than just some spending money. And >> so he you think he's clearly lying to you. And do you think there's something going on here? An addiction, an affair,

that that reason why he's withholding this information?

>> No, I just think it's a

I just think it's a controlling I think it's a controlling thing. I I don't >> You can be controlling because you're trying to hide the vice or addiction.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I he >> I don't think there is. I just don't understand.

>> Um yeah, I I just don't understand the defeat. >> And if you bring it up with him, he just gets defensive and says, "Well, I'll just try to do better cuz that's not good." >> That was that that was regarding the tithing. And um so he controls the

accounts. I have access to them and that's why I was able to. >> So, what do you mean by control?

>> Um, he takes care of all the bills. He pays all of the bills. He always has.

Um, when we first got married, he had money saved. I did not because I was a

spender. I had no debt, but I had no savings. And >> you relegated it to him to handle it.

>> Yeah. and he pretty much, you know, based on the fact that he's a saver,

kind of took over took over the >> How much money do you guys have saved?

>> So, right now, so this is I know this

won't be agreed upon, but we have a joint savings. Um there's like 35 in that um joint >> 35,000 or 100 >> thousand, but we also inherited some money um a few years back. And so between the money that we inherited, his um

uh tax deferred, my tax deferred, there's uh like 1.3 mil in there.

>> Okay. >> Um and so I've even wanted to pay off

the mortgage. There's only about

60 or 70,000 left on the mortgage.

>> And how old are you, Tim? >> And um I'm 59. and his mid60s.

>> Okay. How long has your marriage over these 31 years lacked communication and

trust?

>> Oh, most of them. >> Okay. That's what I was getting at. This has been going on a long time, which makes you an accomplice to the crime >> cuz you've been sitting back allowing it to happen to you, >> right? >> And so, there needs to be come to Jesus meeting and some marriage counseling to go, we're not on the same page. We haven't been on the same page. We have money in spite of our lack of alignment,

lack of values, lack of just transparency when it comes to money. You can say, "I have access to the accounts, but we are not on the same page, and I want to know exactly where this money is going and what else is going on here in order to rebuild trust." And if he can't straight up tell you, if he starts to get nervous and defensive, that's a sign that this marriage has not been a marriage for a long time.

Oh, >> it's been a transactional partnership.

>> Yes. >> And that's the that's going to be the sad truth that you have to face >> is that we sort of played house as two people who live together, but we are miles apart.

>> Yep.

Yeah. I It's It's just been that has

been difficult. I've asked there's no budget to speak of. Um, as long as the the bills get paid, you know, the the

credit card gets paid every month, then, you know, we're we're doing good. And >> and the rest of the money disappears into where he over wherever he wants it to go. >> Yeah. But it's not really disappearing.

It was, you know, private school, tuition, college. So I I

>> Kids are out of the house.

>> Um, they're all in they're all in their 20s, but three out of the four remain.

in the house.

>> Okay. I think we need to we need to have a come to Jesus to go, hey, we're we're in the last quarter here of this marriage. I want to make this great. It hasn't been great and I want to know if you're on the same team.

I think if you come at it attacking, he's just going to get defensive again. But if you come at it and say, "Listen, I haven't done a great job being involved and that part's on me, but you have not done a great job communicating where our money's going." And it's left me wondering, is there something else going on? Why can't you be honest with me about where this cash is? Why is it all just smoke and mirrors and and defense?

And if he can't get there, you definitely need marriage counseling yesterday. I don't know that he's willing to go.

>> Um that's been a struggle um over the

years, me always asking and um it's

never helped. So why why try it again?

>> You need to go solo then until he's on board. Would you go by yourself? >> I am. I'm currently >> Okay. And what's come of that?

>> Um, we're just getting into some of the stuff. Um, so,

you know, I I think I'm at a realization of really am,

you know, been unhappy for 20 years or

more and do I want to finish the last 20

of my life? >> Yeah. >> Continuing to be unhappy. So that's my

that's kind of what's been rolling around in my head for the last few days and especially after today.

>> Yeah. Well, the it's going to take time and consistency and honesty and transparency, which means we're doing a budget every month. All our accounts are combined. There's no just loose cash, you know, fluttering away every month.

I don't know that he's willing to do that. And at that point, you're going to have to make a hard call. Do I want to continue down this route of misery and [music] lack of trust or do I need to just create the my own last chapter of my life? I can't make that decision for you, but I hope that you guys come to a conclusion and you don't let this drag on for another 20 or 30 years.

[music]

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Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Erica in Oregon.

We've been listening to the show for about 6 months. We're in our early 50s and our debtree. Our net worth is 1.5 million, including our paid off home.

Our income is $275,000 a year. Our HSA and retirement investments are maxed out for the year.

But then there's our quote tin can. We

have about $260,000 in savings accounts and CDs. We both

grew up in homes with parents who didn't talk about finances. Is that too much of a safety net? How much is too much?

Great question here. So, the real question is how much should you have in savings before you go? We should probably move this elsewhere. Now, I do like that it's not literally in a tin can because we've gotten that call before where it's just cash buried in the backyard, which is at physical risk

and it's at risk of just being eaten away by inflation. So, if you think about money, um, let's think about an ice cube, right? If you put an ice cube in the microwave, it's going to melt fast. That's kind of like just keeping a lot of cash on hand because it's not even keeping up with the rate of inflation. Now, let's call it room temperature. you have ice out at room temp if it's, you know, uh, sitting on the counter and that's really your CDs, your savings accounts. It's keeping up.

It's slowly melting, but you're at least keeping up. And so, what I would rather you do is keep that in the deep freezer, which is investing your money into the market beyond what you're going to need for an emergency fund. So, you guys make 275 a year. I would sit down and look at your actual expenses for the year in your early 50s and go, "All right, we actually spend $100,000 a year." So 6

months of that would be $50,000. Now if

you want to go a little bit higher, maybe you guys plan on retiring early and you want to have a few years in case there's a down market or you need to pull from that cash or you have some big upcoming expenses, you can keep that in savings as well. But I think beyond 100,000 we're getting into like paranoid apocalyptic territory. And the truth is your money is safe. If it's in a bank account that is FDIC insured or NCUA insured, if it's with a credit union, your money is safe.

It's not going anywhere. If everybody's money disappeared, we're we're definitely going to be in apocalyptic state. And that's just not realistic. And even your money in the stock market, if you think your money is going to go to zero in the stock market in an index fund or mutual fund with hundreds of companies, what you're really saying is, I think the top 500 companies in America are all going to go to zero, go completely bankrupt, and that's that's why I have this money in cash.

And again, in that scenario, we have an apocalyptic situation that's beyond money. We're going to be fighting for food and ammo at that point. So, how much is too much? Anything beyond six months, unless you have a real strong case, a real strong goal for why you need more than that or why you have a separate savings account, I would rather you park it in the market making on average 10 to 12% versus 3 or 4%.

Eric, I hope that helps.

Congratulations. You guys have done really well. No debt, making 275. You're going to make up for a lot of lost time and retire multi-millionaires. So, I don't I think this is a nothing burger, but I appreciate the question. Trey is in Atlanta up next. What's going on, Trey?

You with us? Trey?

>> Hey, how you doing? >> Great. Love your energy. Coming in hot.

What's going on? So, I over I got my first job a year ago

and I over the a year and a half ago and I saved $47,000 and I my only debt is my student loan

debt which is $10,000 at a 4% interest

rate. Now, my goal is next year to be married and I want to purchase a multi-unit home uh to kind of house hack

the other side. Um, but I I've read Dave Ramsey's book and he talks about, you know, obviously getting out of debt. And I've spoken with multiple financial advisors and they said, "Hey, since it's only $10,000 at 4% interest rate, man,

don't worry about it. Just keep your cash so you could get that home." Um, and I wanted to hear your take on that.

>> Well, here's the thing. Financial advisors are incentivized to keep you invested. Would you agree?

>> Uh, yeah, I would agree with that. So, if they're managing your 47 and then you take it down to 37 to pay off your debt, they make less money. >> They weren't my managers. I'm sorry.

They were oneoff conversations I've had with them, seek out advice, but they weren't working with me by no means.

Yeah. >> Same principle applies, financial advisors in general. Now, the good ones and the ones that I recommend you work with are the ones that are going to look at your picture holistically. And we

tell, you know, the people that we recommend, we're like, "Hey, we're doing the Ramsay plan here." So, we're not going to hang on to a whole bunch of debt in order to invest. That's insane.

That's like borrowing money in order to invest, which you wouldn't do. And the the truth of the matter is you got the money to pay it off. So, why not just pay it off, be free of the payment, and you're completely debtree at that point?

>> Yeah, I'll be completely debtree at that point. >> And then that 37, is that your emergency fund plus some?

>> Uh, that be my entire income.

>> Your entire income?

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm saying all my Yeah. emergency fund and like all my savings.

Sorry. >> Got it. Okay. So, I would keep three to six months of expenses saved, which is how much for you? Is that 20 grand, 15 grand, 30 grand? >> See, my rent my rent is like 800 bucks a month. Um, so probably uh my living

expensive about like two grand, about 1,500 bucks a month. So, it'll be somewhere like 7 to $8,000.

>> Okay. I would go minimum 10. I would leave 15 in there. And if you want to invest some of the rest, that's great. But I I'm a little nervous about your house hacking idea cuz I'm scared you fell for like a Tik Tok that they were like, "It's so great, man. They pay the mortgage for you." Especially when you when you got a lady in the mix. You like this lady? You're going to propose to her? >> Yeah. Yeah. We're going to get I'm going to propose and probably have a courthouse wait next year.

>> Okay. I would let her be a part of this decision because I don't want her stuck being a landlord and you got, you know, the the renter downstairs.

>> That's gonna make an awkward predicament for a newlywed. >> And so, I'm not a huge fan of the house hacking idea. Uh, I would rather see you guys have a primary home that you guys live in. And if you want to do investment properties later on with cash, you can do that.

But I would just go pump the brakes and go a little slower here and just follow through with the baby steps, which is let's have a,000 bucks saved. You have that. Let's knock out all of our consumer debt. You're about to do that today.

Let's get our emergency fund in place. You're about to do that today cuz you already have it.

>> Okay. >> Do you have a ring already?

>> Uh, no. I I No, I wanted to do some uh

engagement counseling first.

>> Engagement counseling? Like premarital counseling? >> Yeah, premarital counseling. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, this thing's headed toward engagement, but we're not quite there yet. >> Yeah. No, sir. >> Okay. Well, I I would earmark some of that money for a ring, a wedding. I know you want to do the courthouse thing, but let's just say she wants a little celebration. You have the money to do that. >> Gotcha. So, would you say my first step should be getting uh paying that student loan debt off first? >> Yeah, today.

>> All right. >> Have you ever been debtree in your adult life?

>> Uh, no. This would be my first time. I'm 26. >> Dude, imagine not having to think about making a debt payment.

Yeah, that would be nice. And that's a piece of mind is what I've been wanting. But after talking to those advisers, they were, you know, so I was like, dang. >> Well, because here's what they're saying, man, you could make more in the market. You should just do that and leave the loan sitting there. It's fine.

You'll get to it. And >> the the truth is when you are looking at it through that lens, what you're really saying is, I am willing to borrow $10,000 in student loan debt in order to invest in the market.

>> Gotcha. >> So, when you look at it that way, you go, "No, who would do that? That's insane. And so regardless of the interest rate, I'm telling you to pay it off. >> Got it. Regard Okay. All right. I'm going get on that today. >> If you regret it, you can go get more debt later, but I hope you don't, Trey, because you got a bright future ahead of you. There's a lady on the line. She wants to marry you. Hopefully, your future's too bright to stay in debt or go further into debt.

>> Yes, sir. Thank you so much.

>> Absolutely. And I'm going to gift you something, Trey. It's called Financial Peace University. I think it's some of the best premarital counseling out there when it comes to finances. Cuz if you guys get aligned with your values, your goals, the principles, you both agree, hey, the kind of people we want to be is the people who don't owe people money.

That's really going to set you guys up for success. We want to have money in the bank, not owe people money, build wealth for the future. And that's honestly one of the big reasons people get divorced is money fights and money problems. And you're about to avoid that.

And it's I think it's the most attractive thing a man can be is debtree with money in the bank. You know, cuz even if you got a five in the face, if you got 10K in the bank, it goes a long way, my man. Ask me how I know.

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, I've got about 4,000 messages

about the 50-year mortgage that was announced via Truth Social from President Trump. So, I thought I guess we need to talk about Let's talk about the 50-year elephant [music] in the room, shall we? So, over the weekend, here's the actual truth of what happened. President Trump shared a photo that's now making headlines and it showed FDR, the president who helped create the 30-year mortgage after World War II, next to Trump, and it said great presidents at the as the headline.

And uh his modern version was the 50-year mortgage under Trump's face. And the idea reportedly came from a meeting at Mara Lago where Bill Py, who's now the head of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, presented the proposal on a poster board. So he made a little arts and crafts. He shows it to the president.

He liked it enough to post it on Truth Social. And now the FHFA says they're quote working on it. That's all it takes, guys. You bring him a poster board with a nice picture.

He goes, "Let's do that. That sounds fun." And what am I having for dessert at Mara Lago? So the stated goal here is to make housing more affordable. In quotes, that's not what this does.

The 50-year mortgage does not make homes cheaper. In fact, it makes the housing crisis into a dumpster fire. And let's walk through the reasons why this is. Number one, the math doesn't work here.

Let's look at the numbers that have been thrown out there.

home as the example. A 30-year mortgage at 6.25% about 2,700 a month. Total

interest paid over those 30 years, $547,000.

Not great, remember on a $450,000 home.

But now, let's look at a 50-year mortgage. And to keep it apples to apples, I'll even give you the same exact interest rate at 6.25, 25, which is not going to happen because this is a much riskier loan. So, banks are going to charge more for it. But let's just say it's the same interest rate. Well, your payment now becomes $2450 a month.

So, you're saving 300 bucks at best with

this loan. Total interest, this is the kicker, over a million in interest alone on a $450,000

house. Do you understand how insane that is? Now, in reality, lenders would

charge that higher rate on a 50-year because it's riskier, at least 1% more, which means the savings aren't even going to be there in your monthly payment, and the interest is going to be even more than that million. So, that uh 7.25%, let's keep it there. That's 2,600 bucks versus 2,700 bucks. So, whoop-dedoo, you saved a h 100red bucks a month, all to pay $1.18 million in

interest for that home. That is insane.

That is not affordability. It's a financial illusion that's going to keep people broke until they die because we know the average first-time home buyer is now 40 years old. So, let's walk this out. You're going to die statistically

before you pay off your mortgage. So, I guess generational wealth is going to turn into generational debt. That's what you're doing if you take this on. Reason number two, you are not building equity.

You're just renting from the bank instead of your landlord. So, here's what really happens under the hood. You see, mortgages are front-loaded with interest. So, when you look at your amortization schedule, that's the nerdy sheet that shows you how much is going to principal versus interest.

At first, every single dollar, almost every dollar is going to the bank, not toward your house. So, let's share some examples here. On a 15-year mortgage, you start paying more principle than interest around year eight. That's when you sort of tip the scales.

On a 30-year, takes about 12 years. On a 50-year mortgage, it takes almost 40 years before you're paying more of your payment to the principal than to interest.

the average homeowner keeps their home for about 11 years and they're moving on. By 11 years in, you've paid that

$450,000 mortgage down to about $380,000.

Do you not see how insane that is? You have built almost no equity in almost a decade by taking on this kind of loan.

So that's problem number two. Number problem number three, it makes the housing crisis worse, not better. You see, stretching debt doesn't make homes more affordable. It's just going to make home prices go up. And we see this with the car market, right? We're introducing seven-year car loans. Well, what happens? Everyone just goes, "Cool.

We'll just keep raising the prices." College tuition. We saw something very similar happened because they realized people would just take on a bunch of debt and the government was going to back it. That's what's going to happen with these mortgages. So when buyers can afford a slightly higher payment, builders and sellers are going to respond by raising prices because now we have more demand. It's a classic supply and demand curve here. So that's problem

number three. Problem number four, it's going to add massive risk for homeowners. Here's why. Borrowers would pay roughly 400 to 500 grand more in interest on that medium priced home if it's stretched out from 30 to 50 years.

And when it takes three to four decades just to pay down half of your principal, even a small decline in housing values could wipe out all of your equity. That is frightening. And that's not including just closing costs and realtor fees that would eat into what you would have built up in equity. That's frightening.

So, this is a debt treadmill where you never catch up. If you move to the next home a decade later, you're just going to make a lateral move. You've built almost no equity. Number five, it is a legal and financial nightmare.

To make this work, regulators would have to rewrite rules and convince investors to buy these ultra long loans.

They want money like sooner rather than later. So what they're going to do to compensate is higher rates, more bakedin

fees because it's already a fragile system as it is. So this is a financial time bomb. Which brings us to problem number six. This doesn't benefit the American people at all. It only benefits banks, builders, and Wall Street. Here's why. Let's be clear about who wins here.

Banks get 20 extra years of guaranteed interest, which means if they actually play this out, they're going to get double what they would have than that 30-year mortgage. Then you've got builders. Builders get to sell higher priced homes because monthly payments look more affordable. And then you've got investors who get 50 years of cash flow from your paycheck on Wall Street.

So the only loser in this setup is you, the homeowner. And there's been a lot of people, a lot of backlash toward this, even from the Republican party. Uh Marjgery Taylor Green even said that it rewards the banks, mortgage lenders, and homebuilders while people pay far more in interest over time and die before they ever pay off their home. This is coming from a staunch Republican. So this is a system designed to keep you in debt for life. Now, the proponents of

this, and this is what I've seen on social media when I posted about it, when everyone posts about it, well, people would just refinance. Well, people would just pay extra and so it's no big deal. Listen, I don't know if you've met humans, but we are emotional creatures. And the stats show that a very very small percentage of people's about 7% or 9% systematically actually

pay extra on their mortgage. So left to their own devices, humans are just going to do the bare minimum. They're going to just make the minimum payment. And by the way, people who are going to take on a 50-year mortgage probably are going to do it with very little down and very little margin in their budget. This is a desperate move that's targeted at broke people. So, if you do it the Ramsay way,

you're going to go for a 15-year, which means you're going to pay a fraction of that interest, likely about little over six figures, 160 grand in interest instead of a million in interest. Oh, and by the way, you're debtree in 15 years. So, even if you took on that home at 40, you're debtree by 55 instead of

90 years old, maybe making your last payment from the old folks home if you're lucky, if the Lord willing and the creek don't rise. And this is what I love. The old French word mortgage

literally means death pledge. And

America has finally uh we've taken this on and we're saying, you know what? Make it a death pledge literally, please.

Because for 50 years, I'm deciding, I'm going to be a slave to the lender.

Proverbs says that. Proverbs 22:7. The borrower to slave to the lender. The rich rule over the poor. So, is this the fix for housing? No. Do I believe that

there could be a better economic climate and economy that could be more beneficial to the American people? Absolutely. We could build more homes to increase supply. We can try to stop corporations and hedge funds from buying up all the single family homes.

We could maybe let homeowners transfer their low mortgage interest rate when they move, which would unlock some inventory because right now people are sitting with golden handcuffs. We could even raise the capital gains exclusion so that long-term owners can sell without losing equity to taxes. That would be a cool solution. But here's the thing.

I have very little faith in any policy taking place that's going to make it easier for the American people to buy a home. In fact, as we've seen, it's only going to become harder. So, what's my take on this? Don't wait on a policy to fix your life, to allow you to become a homeowner.

Bet on yourself instead of the government, instead of on a a housing market. That's a moving goalpost. So, what's the real way?

get out of debt, you build up an emergency fund, and you get a down payment saved up, and that might go slow. It might be 40 years old before you can take on that home. But when you do it the Ramsay way, and it's no more than a quarter of your take-home pay, you're not going to be in alert. You're not going to be paying off that mortgage until you're in the old folks home.

You're going to be debtree, owning that home outright instead of it owning you, which is exactly what this 50-year loan is designed to do. And by the way, what did Trump think about it? He said, "It's not that big of a deal. You don't pay our bills, Mr. President. It is a big deal to lock someone in a death pledge for the rest of their life." So, to that, I say no thank you, Mr. President.

I will hard pass on a 50-year loan.

[music] Our

[music] scripture of the day, 1 Peter 3:15. But

in your hearts, rever Christ [music] as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have, but do this with gentleness and respect.

[music] Theodore Roosevelt said, "There is only one quality worse than hardness of heart, and that is softness of head."

That'll preach. That's a timeless one right there. Well, guys, the allnew Every Dollar is here. You've heard us mention it on the show as we help people try to find that margin to pay off debt.

And now, it's way more than just a world-class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. The average person finds thousands in margin in just the first 15 minutes of using it. So, start Every Dollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. Sheila is in Cincinnati up next. What's going on, Sheila?

>> Hi. I was calling to find out some information um suggestions about investing a little

bit of money for some income.

>> Okay.

>> Um so, uh my husband and I followed the

Dave Ramsey plan. um and um for for

years and um we we were in a good situation and looking forward to retirement um

tracking a couple 30 years down the road

and um he unexpectedly passed away in

July. >> Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. So, I'm

trying to figure out suddenly all income

stopped. Um, his uh disability stopped. His social security stopped. I won't see that again for another four years.

>> Wow. Wow. So, it's 150,000 insurance

policy, life insurance policy,

and I'm trying to figure out what's the best thing to do with that to generate a

little bit of income to make up for the

loss of income. >> Yeah. What was he making?

>> He just It varied from year to year. Um,

but this year he was he well last year

cuz he didn't work at all this year, but last year he was on track to probably break 100,000.

>> Okay. What are your monthly expenses right now? Let's just talk about the the right next thing to do, which is cover your four walls, your food, your utilities, your housing, and transportation. So, what does all that cost you?

>> 800. We're debtree. We don't have any car payment or house payment or anything. So >> amazing. >> Um 800 just pays the bills and buys the

food. >> That puts food on the table, keeps the lights on. Does that pay insurance bills as well?

>> Um yeah. Uh life insurance and um property taxes.

>> Okay. So let's call it a bucks.

>> Insurance, I'm sorry. Car insurance, house insurance. >> Okay. But a,000 bucks all in gets your expenses covered for the month.

>> Yeah. So, we're really looking at we need 12 grand a year right now just to survive.

>> Yeah, maybe. >> Okay. >> Well, I'll share some math with you and we can try to solve this uh problem together. So, if you just parked that $150,000 in a high yield savings account, you would make about $5 or $6,000 a year.

>> The bank right now told me to put it in a money market, so that's just where it is right now. >> That's probably a similar rate. I would check on the rate, but right now you should be at about 3 and a half 4% on these savings account rates, especially high yield money market. So check the rate there.

That's a good starting point, but you might need to invest this money if you want to make it last for a long time, >> right? >> Because as you start to >> I don't understand. >> Yeah. As you start to withdraw the money, it's going to deplete it.

And so what is the the next income point that you're going to hit?

Um there will be a pension that will

start a little bit. Um >> okay. What's that amount?

>> Should start sometime this month um should be about 2,000.

>> Amazing. So this month you will have $2,000 coming in.

>> Right. >> Great. >> So that leaves me from what we had calculated before he was going to retire and what we looked to think that we would need like 4,000 a month to live on after retirement. Okay. And >> that's what he was working towards. >> So 4,000 was the goal for both of you to have a comfortable retirement.

>> Right. Okay. >> So now I'm about 2,000 short on that.

>> Yes. But that was for both of you in this, you know, kind of cushy retirement dream.

>> Right. >> So we'll need to sort of have a new picture of what the future looks like for Sheila in this this chapter as you

are still grieving. I mean, it's only been a few months, so I can't imagine the fog that you're in right now. But as that fog starts to clear and as you figure out the right next steps, you're going to have to figure out what those expenses really look like for you to not just survive, but also to enjoy life because you're you're still young. You got a lot of life ahead of you. How old are you?

>> 56. >> Okay. And then when will Social Security kick in?

>> When I'm 60, which would be four years.

And that's taking a cut. It doesn't fully come in until I'm 67.

>> Sure. Yeah. And you can delay that a little bit. Maybe you split the difference and take it at 62. You know, take it when you need it, but if you don't need it, you can let it ride a little bit longer. And then the other piece of this, this 150,000, you could invest it. And if you invest it on average, you could see anywhere from 9 10 11 even 12% return on average over a long period of time over the next 20 or 30 years.

So that's what I need to know is where and how does one invest money to be able

to pull off of it >> for a living? >> Well, you're what you want to focus on are mutual funds and index funds. These are basically giant groups of stocks and companies. So instead of putting all of your eggs in one basket, it's in a basket that has 200 different companies that are all weighted. >> And so that's what I would recommend.

And if you want help with that, I would connect with a Smart Ver Pro. You can do that at ramseyolutions.com.

click on Smart Investor Pro and they'll guide you through this process because we always tell people only invest in things you understand and you stay in the driver's seat when it comes to your investments. So, you're not going to relinquish control. You're going to stay in control and actually learn, okay, here's what my money is doing. Here's where it's going.

Here's what the return is. And if you do that, this 150 grand could give you about 10 or 15 grand a year.

It could give you an extra, let's say, thousand bucks a month on average,

>> okay? >> On top of your two from the pension.

Now, now we're working with $3,000 and our expenses are one. Could you live a decent life in retirement off of that?

>> I I don't know.

>> Are you Are you working full-time currently?

>> No. >> Are you able to work?

>> Maybe down the road.

>> Okay. As you enter the new year, I would also look at what opportunities you have to do some meaningful work. Number one, because it will give you some purpose in this next season and allow you to continue this legacy. And number two, because truthfully, the money just isn't there. We need to create some income to fund the gap right now to invest, to put aside. Do you have anything in savings outside of the 150?

Um, yeah, we that's what I've been

living off of the past three months. Um,

>> how much is in there now? >> So, um, outside of the money market, um, about 67,000 now.

>> Okay. So, that's quickly getting depleted and I would love for you to keep that as an emergency fund to cover you when life inevitably happens. Now, obviously, you've been in a state of grief, and so I have no shame, uh, no

guilt for you using this money to fund your life right now as you navigate this process, but I would love for you to keep that emergency fund set aside for those emergencies down the line. And that means maybe we get to work, we invest this money, we get that pension coming in, and then we get on a budget.

Have you created a budget on your own before?

>> Um, yes, I'm following the budget.

>> Okay. Do you have every dollar?

>> Yeah. >> Great. I'm going to cover it for the next year for you. So, hang on the line and Christian will pick up. We'll make sure to gift that to you because it'll connect to your bank account and make it really easy to track your transactions plus a lot of other cool features to help you create margin. And you might see that, hey, this gave me four ideas I can do to create an extra $300 of margin. And in your world, that could be life-changing.

>> Okay. Are you getting any counseling to help you heal and and move through this?

>> Um, I I a little bit. >> Do you have anybody in your in your corner community around you?

>> Yes, we do. >> Okay, I do. >> Good. Well, Sheila, I'm so sorry. This is not the picture anybody has as they head into their retirement phase. I'm so sorry for your loss, but I hope the numbers encourage you that you can not only survive, but I hope that soon you can thrive in this next chapter. That puts this hour of the Ramy Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's [music] to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 28. Debt Is the Enemy of Your Freedom | September 17, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. George Camel, Ramsey personality, host of the George Camel Hit on YouTube and the Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today, number one best-selling author. And uh we're happy to have the leadership team from Fair Winds Credit Union here with us today at Ramsey Headquarters. Welcome you guys.

If you haven't heard, Fairwinds is our new studio sponsor. We've had a relationship with them for a little over a year and they've done a lot of wonderful things for you folks out there that have contacted them and they've even developed products just for you to get help. And as you guys know, I'm not a fan of actually I detest large banks.

Uh so stuff like Bank of America, why would you do business with them if you don't have brain damage? So, or people like Fifth, Third, H, and I can go on from there and just name off all of my anti- friends, but I won't. So, instead, we tell folks to go to small town local banks and to credit unions, and we always have for 30 some odd years on this show. And because you get treated like a human being there, not a number, and you actually find competent people there who care. That's

an unusual thing, too, in the banking world. And so, uh, that's why we're so excited to have Fairwinds on as our studio sponsor and a partner for Ramsay.

And they are doing some really cool stuff. You need to check them out. Uh, they've got a, uh, they created the smart bundle for you Ramsey fans out there. It includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, which will help you supercharge that emergency fund, right?

Actually start making some money on that thing. Don't keep it under your bed in a shoe box, boys and girls. And the Ramsay debit card just came out, brand new. I saw the first real one last night of the prototype.

>> I got to see it and it's actually a real one. It says right on the front of the debit card, "Dad is normal.

>> That's >> Now, that's a way to pay for some stuff right there. >> That'll catch some attention from the cashier at checkout. >> Well, I mean, when you go to Target, like everybody in there that's ever worked there for more than 10 minutes is trained to try to sell you one of their Target credit cards. And you just have to go, "Uh, no. Look right here.

>> Read this. >> Read read my card. Read my lips." Right.

and said, "No." Uh-uh. Right here. Debt is normal. Be weird.

No, I don't I don't do your Target card, baby. So, there you go. It's a daily reminder. You're doing money differently.

And the Ramsey debit card is officially launching uh September the 17th. So, we're there, baby. You can get it. Check it out.

So, hey, we're so excited about this uh whole fair winds thing.

right next to our name, how much trouble we went to to make sure they're good people and that they're going to treat you guys right and not just run you up a bunch of debt or something. They are great folks and we're really really excited about this. So check out the smart bundle. It's got the debit card.

It's got the no fee checking and a high yield savings account at fairwinds.org/ramsey.

Madison is with us in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Hey Madison, what's up?

>> Hey Dave, I have some questions for you.

Me and my husband are not seeing eye to eye on our car debt and I need your input. >> Okay. >> Um, we just had a baby, our second baby three months ago and my husband pays all

the bills and I just paid the car payment. Well, I'm sick of paying this car payment. We owe about 12,000 on it.

We've had it for four years. And I'm just like, hey, let's go get, you know, a cheap cheaper car. But he's all about reliability. He's like, the older cars aren't as reliable. And so I'm like, is

it smart to go get like a $7,000 car, pay cash for it, or do we, you know,

keep making this car payment? I mean, I only make like 600 a month working part-time and being a stay-at-home mom.

Um, so our car payment is 3.65 a month and I'm like that is just over my, you know, that's all my money basically. So, >> how long have you guys been living like roommates? Like the splitting up bills and Venmoing each other.

>> Uh, h, ever since ever since we got the

car, I mean, he's always provided like he's always paid everything. Um, >> no, darling. >> The car. >> No, darling. Answer George's question.

>> Okay, >> this is a pattern. There's other things going on here. This isn't just about the car payment, but you're making 600 bucks a month and he's like, "Well, that's your car. You handle the payment. I'm not touching that." >> Hand him one of those kids and say, "That's your baby. I ain't touching that one." >> O, okay. >> Yeah, this is ridiculous. Okay, stop.

It's ridiculous. The way y'all are doing this is what's causing the problem.

>> Okay. Okay. >> You need to combine your finances.

>> All of your income is our income. And when you went down the aisle, dun dun dun, the preacher said, "And now you are one." He didn't say, "And now you're a joint venture, and I sure hope you can pay your car payment with your part-time job." The preacher didn't say that.

>> Okay. No, he didn't. >> Yeah. And so you guys need to combine your lives because you have combined your bed and your children and everything else.

And so this idea that you have to argue over who paid for the mustard in the refrigerator is asinine for a married couple. you guys need to sit down together, develop a game plan, work together on the whole thing, and then yes, you'll probably need to sell this stupid car. I don't disagree.

>> Okay, so Dave, we also have a savings and we have like 10,000 in the savings account. And he's like, "What? What if we pay the car off? I mean, we still owe 2,000.

If you want to do that and keep the car, that's fine. We decide that together.

And then we have a monthly budget on

every dollar and we are spending our

money on our goals, dreams, and fears.

>> Okay. >> You really are you going to do that? You really have to do that, hun?

>> I know. I want to do it. I um I want to do it. But thinking about the demand is draining. >> No, just demand it. Demand it.

>> Okay. >> You have to do this because the people

who do it have a higher quality marriage relationship and the people that do it have a higher probability of becoming millionaires. We've got data that backs us up. Okay? You guys are not pulling together. You're pulling at each other.

And when you start pulling together instead of at each other, you make more progress both relationally and everything else.

When you can agree on your spending, you have communicated at a deeper level of intimacy. When you can agree on your spending, you have agreed on your future. You've agreed on your fears.

You've agreed on a stupid car. We can have an argument about reliability versus the $10,000 savings account. We can take all of those things and mix them in together. And you're missing out on all of that because you're you're treating this like you're married to your college roommate or something. And uh No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Please. Hey, try it my way and

push through the awkwardness for 90 days. Do what George is suggesting and Dave is suggesting.

You'll never go back. But if I'm completely wrong, you can go back and then you'll see a marriage counselor, which is what you'll need because you can't combine your lives and that's what you'll be down to. But please try it.

Yeah. Right now I can tell they have separate accounts and he's going, "Well, this is my money. This is your money. I'll cover this.

You cover that and hopefully everything will work out." Well, she's going to be in debt and resentful for the next 5 years and who knows what he's doing with his extra money. Nobody has awareness or transparency in this marriage. There's no trust here. >> Yeah.

I don't I don't >> Just scorekeeping. Well, the biggest thing is there's just a tremendous amount of waste in this disorganization and chaos. >> Yeah, it's like one of those finger traps. They're pulling away and they're just stuck where they are.

You got to be moving in the same direction. That's the key. >> I haven't thought of those things in years. >> I'm always thinking about those fingers.

>> Find that metaphor.

>> Chuck-E-Cheese near you. I think >> Chucky coming from a Chuck-E-Cheese near you.

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Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. uh a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. >> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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[Applause] Britney's in Missouri. Hi Britney. How are you? >> Hi. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so my question is my boyfriend and I have been together for a year and a half. Um, we've talked about finances

upside down and sideways. Um, but from my past experience, um, a lot of relationships say they're on the same page with finances and then once they get married, one of them go and end up being a bigger spender than they originally led on to be. >> So, wait, your past experience, you've been married before? >> I have been. Yes. >> And that's what happened before.

>> Oh, yes. >> So, you married a man without integrity?

>> Yes. >> And it probably that lack of integrity bled into other areas which is actually why you got the divorce, right?

Yes, absolutely.

>> Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry.

>> Um, so I guess my question is I I trust

my boyfriend, but how do I like I don't

know. I guess I'm terrified that we will get married and then it won't be everything we talked about.

>> But I know it's just my past experiences that are >> Yeah. >> making talked about it a minute ago in a sense.

And uh uh for me looking at it um I I

think it's wisdom to ask the question

because you got burned before. Right.

>> Right. >> And uh but there's not the only way to guard against it is to marry a guy of integrity.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And I didn't say he was Jesus and I didn't say he was perfect. I just said he had integrity.

>> Meaning meaning he is who he is. Who he is who he is. I mean, it's kind of like saying, "Okay, how do I ensure that my boyfriend won't call his old girlfriend after he's my husband?" >> Uh, because he's a person of integrity and I would kill him and you know, so >> both and, >> you know, but I mean, you can't you can't be sure of that except as sure as you are of the man's

character.

>> Yes. And so you need to date long enough that you are sure of his character. And you probably sit down and talk to your counselor, your pastor about your wounds, which are valid wounds, and go,

"Okay, I don't want to I don't want to superimpose the other jerk on the new guy. That's not fair. But I also want to be wise and not let that happen again." So, how do I balance those two things?

And you know, and and for me, I'm I'm just going to be talking to the your new boyfriend a lot about that if I'm you.

>> Okay. We talk about it like every day.

>> Yeah. He's probably he's probably sick of it. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, is he in debt now?

>> He is. Not a lot. He's got probably 20 to $30,000 in debt. Um I have none, but I also make no money to be in debt. So,

>> Okay. And is he actively trying to get out? He is aggressive. He still spins.

No. >> Um he still spins but he is working towards it. I know he's paid off probably 20 to 30,000 in the past year.

>> Okay. So you think in another year he could be completely debtree?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> He could be debtree in the next 6 months if he wanted to be. >> Okay. So independent of you whether you

were there or not he seems to be trending in a debt-free direction. His behavior is there. He's not run. He's not just giving it mouth service. He's actually doing it. >> Yes. So, I guess my next question is, is it stupid to wait until he's debtree for us to make the next step of getting engaged? I know you always say to just put everything together and pay off the debt together. >> No, I would not. I would not base my engagement on debtree. I would base my engagement on his pattern of behavior.

>> Okay? If he's going in the right direction and you're comfortable with his character and this is who you want to spend your life with, then spend your life with him. >> I'm not, you know, if you have to put out a uh >> ultimatum, >> a uh I don't know. In order to earn my my hand, you will have that. That's a little much. Yeah. I'm not doing >> earned it. >> How long have you guys been together?

>> A year and a half. >> A year and a half. >> Okay. So, this is still progressing toward an engagement. Maybe in the next year. >> Yeah. I I we don't tell people to wait to get married or have babies based on their debt. We do tell them to wait on those things based on how they're treating their debt. >> Are you being a freaking adult and addressing the issue or are you still being a baby child?

>> Right.

Responsible. He's definitely addressing it. >> Yeah, he's doing it. He everything you've described about the guy is solid u versus the last guy. And so, right, but I I you know, it's fair to say you got burned and so I've got this this spot and man, you just really I I'm going to be super sensitive about this subject because I got burned before and so dude, you're going to have to be super diligent to stay on the path.

>> I'd share your your fears and feelings with him and say, "Listen, this has happened in the past. I don't want to project this on to you, but I want you to know this is how I'm feeling." And if I'm him now, I'm going to be real sensitive and probably more aggressive to getting out of debt so that you feel like, man, he's he's going to provide.

He's not going to be making dumb financial decisions that move us backward. >> Yeah, Britney, I'll give you an example, okay? We went broke. We had a brand new baby, a toddler, and a marriage hanging on by a thread. My wife was terrorized

by our water being cut off, our lights being cut off, and me filing bankruptcy.

She was in a constant state of fear.

That was 30 plus years ago.

I still as a loving husband to this day

need to be aware that there is a wound

when it comes to security around the

issue of money with Sharon Ramsay. She's not a walking wounded warrior. That's not and the wound has healed progressively over the 30 years. and my behaviors for 30 years have been different than the get-richquick that went broke. Okay? So, I've earned

the right of trust, but I as an act of

love towards her need to remember that if I even walk near the drawer where the emergency fund is kept, where the little file, you know, so we can get to the emergency, if I even near walk near the drawer, like I'm going to use that for something else, it puts her in a way different state of mind. And I need to keep that in mind in how I interact with her. this guy needs to keep in mind that

you got burned before and you've got this sensitive place and it'll be less sensitive as time goes along. But uh but

you just need to be aware of each other's uh wounded spots and go why

would we go there? Yeah. >> And so I'm just real aware Sharon needs to be reminded that we're okay.

>> And you earn it every day by continuing that same pattern of integrity. And the crazy part is it takes a long time to build a trust and you can destroy it in a second. >> Yeah. But even then, it's not unfair to

me to even though I've rebuilt the trust

and a pattern's been for 30 plus years, right? It's not unfair to ask me to be

aware that she has that sensitive spot, right? As a matter of fact, that's just how you live together if you're married.

And so that's fair. It's fair, Britney, for him to be aware of this. It's not an invalid feeling, not an invalid uh

concern. And there's tactical things you can do once you're married, like combining your bank accounts so you both have transparency into what's going on financially, doing that budget together, freezing your credit so that no one can go just take out a loan willy-nilly. And if he goes and takes out debt behind your back, well, clearly there's a very clear violation of trust here. And so that's your biggest fear.

And I think there's things we can do before then. >> And I guess my point is in this case, were he to do that knowing that she has this sensitive spot, this is more than just a violation of trust.

>> Yeah. >> You're you're like you're you're >> it's game over. >> You're shooting you're shooting the dead. I mean you're shooting the cow.

It's over, man. It's just dumb. So you going you know caught knowing that she's got that spot. So it's quite the opposite way to approach it.

So it's a good question, Britney. Thank you for bringing it up. And it's a pretty standard thing if you have been down the, you know, you're going into a second marriage relationship. uh if the first one had some kind of money problems, which by the way, money problems, money fights, number one cause of divorce in North America.

So if you went through a divorce, h high probability that there's a money issue in there. >> Yeah. >> And then you take that to the next relationship and how do I deal with that and not have that happen again?

It's for, you know, out of the 40 million people out there listening, it's probably a couple more just like her. A lot of people have that baggage from previous relationships, whether it's family or a loved one, a marriage, and it takes a long time to heal from that and to trust again. Yep. And at any moment, you're like, you're going, my body is saying, this could be broken. This could be broken. Alert, alert. And so, it takes time, like you said, to get away from that and to heal from that.

And hopefully over time, you guys build the right habits, you do the things we teach, combine bank accounts, get on a budget, and that'll sort of disappear into the back of your mind. >> Yeah. When there's no money being spent that you're not aware of and have agreed to, that makes trust really easy. And that's called a budget. That's called doing your every dollar budget together as a couple when you're married.

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[Music]

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Shane is in Michigan. Hey Shane, how are you? >> Hi. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so my wife and I were in a serious uh accident and we both lost our left leg and >> and things kind of just well it goes very fast once that happened. So, we're we went we're in the hospital, we got out and now we're starting to do our recovery. Um, and then we got lawyers involved, of course. Um, luckily I hit all the right boxes on my insurance, so my medical for our injuries are going to be covered for the rest of our lives.

Um, but the lawyers, I didn't know they

were so fast. Like, they closed and they said, "Hey, in 45 days, you're going to get a settlement um of roughly $350,000." And I'm, you know, we're factory workers. We try to do the best we can, but you know, we're not prepared for,

you know, a quarter of a million dollars. So, my question is, uh, you

know, I asked friends and stuff, but what do I do from here to set myself up

for success? Not right now, even just in

the future, because we are going to have hurdles and we are going to have challenges. Um, so that's that's my

question is uh how do I not blow this

big wad of money and uh set set us up

for a good future?

>> Yeah, man. You guys have been through hell. I'm sorry.

>> Yeah. >> How long ago was the accident?

>> Uh we're not even 3 months through. Um we're both in rehab and doing pretty good. And uh >> we both lost a leg.

>> I'm afraid we did. Yeah, we were going through a green light and somebody decided to uh turn left and um we were

doing 55 and uh it it took both of our

legs. So, >> you're on a motorcycle?

>> On a motorcycle? Yes, sir.

>> All right. >> Yeah. And we we were through we're getting recovered and all that recovery is covered. So, >> let me ask you this. The first thing that comes to mind is is that it doesn't sound like you're getting enough.

>> Well, that's the thing. He was an underinsured motorist. So, we got $50,000 each from his. Um, kind of an

insult to losing a leg, but um I luckily

I I checked the full PIP, so all of our

medical stuff is covered from my insurance, my car insurance. Um, and

then it maxed out at 250,000 each, and then the lawyers take their chunk and

we're left with, you know, what's left.

you your lawyer is getting a chunk of your insurance.

>> Um yeah, we got a lawyer to make sure we got everything right and they take 30%.

>> Of whatever insurance >> and basically they got nothing for you.

I mean they got his underinsured motors which is basic stuff and they got yours that you already coverage you already had. There was no big negotiation here.

They just caused the insurance company to write a check they should have written anyway.

>> This is not a good deal for you. Okay, you're paying way too much in attorney's fees for them to do something that that you probably could have done on your own. This is not this is not an injury lawsuit here. This is just your insurance paying its claims.

>> It was a it was an insult when we got it because I mean we're >> Well, it's not an insult. It's all they had. The guy's broke. He's not gonna You can't get blood out of a rock. But yeah, >> but um it wasn't it wasn't like a personal insult, but it's it's a sad small amount. Okay. Well, at least I know how we got there. Now, back to your question. Uh oh, man. Um

Okay. 350 um

mathematically is not enough for you guys to not work the rest of your lives.

>> Correct. >> So, you're I mean, let's just pretend you invested it at 10%. for easy numbers. That's $35,000 a year. You're not, you know, that's not going to work out. >> Yeah, we we made about 70 when we were working and you get 80% pay for like 3

years. So, >> okay. So, that's going to be helpful while you >> uh rehab and retool for a new career.

>> We also um just before that, we need a new roof, which we couldn't really afford. So, we refinanced. We put all of our debt into the house. I know I know how you feel about that, but um I was out of options. The the house would have deteriorated too much. So um we owe $150,000 and we have no other debt but

utilities. So >> well then what I would do is to try to

during the time you're getting your 80% pay to create a career for each of you where the net is is that you actually end up with your new careers making more than you used to make. Okay, that's what we were kind of thinking too. >> If you get if you get there, then you don't have need of this money for

survival, >> right? >> Then we can use it in the ways that you would rather use it, which would be paying off the house and investing it.

>> Investing. >> That was my question, too. Like, >> but I'm not doing that until you got an income, dude.

>> Okay. All right. That's what I was wondering. >> Yeah. So, you've got what what are y'all going to do? Do you have or you've already thought about this? What do you think you're going to do?

>> I'm not sure. Uh, you know, when I So, the the bummer, too, was that um my friend had a trash truck driving job for me, which would have been a substantial step up, and they match like double digit for your retirement, which we have none. Um, and uh they would it would

have been better pay. I got my permit and then two weeks I was going to, you know, start the classes and uh I had

that job lined up and then we got hit and that kind of I don't know once I get the prosthetic and I get better with it maybe I could do something like that but we're still talking manual labor with a leg that's you know >> I I don't have any idea. I don't know how but wow that's that's the stuff you're facing. So, you've got to solve for income. And when you solve for

income, then that frees up the money and then you can decide what to do with it. And it's pretty basic because you don't have >> a lot of options. There's I mean, you know, you pay off the house and I would sit down with a smart investor pro and get this money invested and pretend like I don't have it. In other words, I don't have a house payment anymore.

I don't have any debt anymore.

>> So, you would uh pay off the house and then with the rest of the money investing and get somebody to help me because my friend was like money market account and I was like >> no your don't listen to your broke friends about money. Honey, >> I know. I know. Hey, I know.

I I right away I was like I don't know. I need somebody I think professional to >> No, just go go to ramseyolutions.com and click on smartvetor pro and they can help him. Yeah. And then make sure you get an emergency fund before you invest that money.

Set aside 6 months of expenses to cover you guys in case of emergencies before you use the rest of that money. >> But that'll set you up. You get that foundation right and get the income going. You've got a great quality of life.

The money will turn into a lot of money over time if it's invested and you keep your hands off of it because you've created a sustainable income with your new careers. >> Yeah. So, hey, I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do.

normal looks like. What a man, wild, horrible thing to go through.

55 miles an hour >> with no protection there. Yeah.

>> On that motorcycle. >> Yeah. That's just wow, >> man. >> Crazy. >> But here's the the news on the compound growth. Like you mentioned, you leave 150 grand sitting there for a couple decades. It turns into a couple million if you add nothing to it. And so that's the good news is that this could add a nice cushion to their nest egg and who knows what the rest of their life looks like with expenses and medical and how this affects other areas of their life.

>> Exactly. Well, the great news he's got 80% pay. That's pretty good workers comp right there, man. Or whatever it was. He's got disability. I guess disability income is probably what it is. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Yeah. He had checked the boxes on the insurance.

Lawyer ought to be ashamed of himself taking a fee on that.

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Katie is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi Katie, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm great. long time listener, first

time caller. I'm so excited.

>> Well, thank you. How can we help today?

>> Yes. Hi. Um, I'm calling because I have

a mother-in-law who has been scammed out

of probably somewhere between $150 to

$200,000.

Um, she lives a quarter mile from our

house in a patio home which she

purchased from the sale of her home in

North Carolina. That patio home is in my

husband and I's name and we're wondering

if she should move in with us.

>> Why would she do that?

Well, she no longer can pay for the

mortgage out of what she is currently getting.

>> Oh, so she didn't purchase. She didn't pay for the home when she bought it. She took out a mortgage when she bought it.

>> She took out a mortgage. The mortgage is in our name, my husband and I.

>> So, she didn't have enough money from the sale in North Carolina to buy the house.

>> No. Well, she she did. She she stockpiled the rest of it in a savings account and then uh when she had an

online scammer um tell her that he was

going to come to the United States and marry her not once but in the romance

scam.

>> Yes, the romance scam. That's exactly right. And so obviously, you know, my heart bleeds for her because she's lonely. He lost her husband probably 11

years ago. And and my husband and I when

we first got married, he said, "FYI, when my dad dies, my mom's moving in with us." And I said, "That's great. I love your mom. Plus, she gives me diamonds." >> Okay. So, um, if you sell the patio home and she moves in with you, then you've gotten your wish. What's the question?

>> Yes. Yes. to the patio home. It was

probably $250 some odd thousand dollars.

However, my husband and my mother-in-law don't want that to happen. Um, we are supporting my mother-in-law with um not

a lot, basically $50 to $100 a month to

stay in her patio home, but we can't

afford that either. My husband and I are both horse trainers. Um, we got into a little bit of tax trouble after the sale of a horse a couple of years ago. Now we have a great accountant on board and um, I see the light at the end of the tunnel. We are pro could probably be

debtree. What is your household home?

>> Um, we are averaging I'm using the Dave Ramsey app which I love. We're averaging about uh $7,200

a month. You can afford $100.

>> Pardon me? >> You can afford $100.

>> You said you're using a giving her $100 a month to stay afloat >> and I can't afford that. That's not true. You can't afford it. You have $7,200. $100 is not breaking you.

>> I It's not breaking us, but we are um

like by the end of every month.

>> Yeah. You have other issues then. And it's not your mother-in-law.

>> You have $7,100 worth of other issues.

>> Yes. Yes, we do. We do.

>> And the the other part is if mother-in-law can't pay the mortgage, you're getting foreclosed on because it's in your name.

>> Yeah. So, um >> that that is also correct.

>> Yeah. And and she's paying that with her social security. I assume >> she is paying that with her social security. and then on top of it barely has enough to pay for the medication that she needs.

>> Right. >> So, this is unsustainable for her to stay in this house. >> Yeah. Well, at 100 bucks a month, it's sustainable is what she's saying.

>> Yeah. They're they're giving her $100 a month. That's making her budget balance and that's what her husband and the mother-in-law want to do. And she wants to sell the sell the house and have her move in for hundred bucks.

No. I You don't have a math case to make this case. If you guys as a family want to do this to take care of her and everyone involved thinks it's a great idea, it's not a problem for me. Sell the patio home and put the money in an investment and you'll be fine uh from the equity in that thing.

a month is not sustainable when you make 7,200 is not true. There's other things going on in your budget that may not be sustainable. So if that's what they want to do, you can afford it. I just I

uh >> wouldn't be my first >> Well, I don't know. I mean, I if you want to if she wants to live there, doesn't want to live there, I don't want to force her to live there.

>> Uh so, it's just um >> sounds like she's more lonely than anything at this point. >> Yeah, >> but she's a quarter mile away. She's not too far. >> Austin's in Oklahoma. Hey, Austin.

What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. Um, so about three years ago,

my wife and I, we bought our home and then now my wife is looking at going and getting her doctorate degree. And so if

we were to do that, we would have to move away for a little while, probably three, maybe four years at the max. Um, and so my question to you is, would you suggest we sell our home and take that equity to pay off and not get any student loans or would you suggest us

just renting the home, taking on some loans or some debt for that student um

for the doctorate degree and then eventually we'd like to come back and so that's the main reason we would want to rent instead of just selling it. Um, I

don't know. What are your thoughts? Uh

why is she getting a doctor degree?

>> Um so she can be a professor

>> in what?

>> Um it's like a biblical theological studies.

>> And does she have a does she have a career now?

>> She does. >> What does she make at her career?

>> About 40,000. >> Okay. And so she could make a 100 as a seminary professor.

>> Yeah, probably between 80 to 100.

>> Yeah, that's probably about right. I agree with you. So that's the return on investment in the PhD. And what's the PhD cost?

>> It's about 60 to 80.

>> Okay. So you're going to send 60 to 80,000 to get a

30 to get a $40 $40,000 raise. That's

probably okay. I'd spend 60. I wouldn't spend 80 but um yeah and that's going to

take how long?

>> Uh I think the max is typically four years. I think it can be done in three at some schools depending on which one >> is she working while she but also then she has to go somewhere where she can get that job after she completes it and it probably won't be your hometown.

>> Yeah, I there we do have some connections in the hometown with a couple schools. Um, so there is like there's a chance >> not super high, but >> but I mean it's not it's not a sure thing. So number one, I'm not going to tell you to borrow money for student loans, period, ever, under any circumstance. Uh, number two, I'm not going to tell you to borrow money on student loans uh so that you can keep a rental property. Uh, so that that just

double down. So no, I'd sell the house for sure.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. you want, if she wants this dream and you guys are on this dream more than you want this house, then it sounds like you do, then the proper thing to do is use the house money to get the PhD and then use the PhD to get your next house.

>> Okay. Which we do have

we have savings. Um, but I >> But you don't have enough to do this >> funds and everything else. You don't have enough to do this because you said you were going to take out student loans, >> but it' cover about half of it. And so there still be student loans whatever.

>> No, don't do student loans. Pay cash for the PhD or don't do it. >> What's your household income?

>> Um about 180,000.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, you could save up in a year and knock this out and cash flow it.

>> Here's an irony for you. Here's an irony for you. You can't find anywhere in the Bible that God used debt to finance his plan on the earth. Not once in there.

And she's going to study biblical studies.

So, no, don't don't be borrowing money to do this. No. You know, it's too much irony here to chew on. You don't don't do it. No. No. Don't do it. And don't go

into debt for a PhD. Don't go into debt for a masters. Don't go into debt for a bachelor's. There's lots of ways to get your education out there today. It's ridiculous to do that. And and then try to keep in mind that what you're looking for is a return on investment on this education. And the lower the investment, the better the return. So get the cheaper PhD cuz nobody's going to give a rip where you went to school.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. He's my co-host today. The phone number here is88255225.

Julia's in Colorado. Hi Julia. How are you?

>> Hi. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um well, first of all, love you guys. So happy to hear that. >> Thank you. >> Um I have been listening to you guys for

like the last eight months, me and my husband and I. Um and we've been working on getting through steps one and two. Uh

we just had a baby not that long ago in

May and I heard just through the grape

vine um that my mother is going

bankrupt. I think she already filed actually and she has a parent plus loan

um from my first two years of college

and husband just recently just started asking me to help pay for it which we already agreed that I would pay for it.

That was the goal, but I had like no idea what we signed up for and I don't know what it looks like with her filing

bankruptcy. >> Okay. The parent plus loan is not bankruptable.

Um, it will depend on what type of bankruptcy she files as to whether it will affect the loan at all. Okay.

There's two types of bankruptcy that might work. One would be chapter 13 bankruptcy, which is a payment plan for 5 years. If she puts the parent plus loan in the chapter 13 bankruptcy, which

if she's doing one, she probably did, then it they're going to be pay paying payments inside the bankruptcy on that loan through that 5-year period of time.

>> Okay. >> Oh, and so it's it's a mess. It's a mess. And so, um, the, uh, if she files

Chapter 7 bankruptcy, which is what most people think of when you think of bankruptcy, which wipes the slate clean, the Parrot Plus loan is not bankruptible, and it'll still be standing after the bankruptcy. It'll wipe off her credit card debt. It'll wipe off her medical debt. It will wipe off any unsecured debt, but it won't wipe off a student loan or an IRS debt.

>> So, it's still So, she still owes it.

But the bottom line is you morally owe it because you promised to pay it.

Correct. >> I did. >> Yeah. So it's not either way it's not going away and so either way you're going to get the opportunity to do what you said and pay the bill. But you don't even know how much the stupid thing is.

>> I do actually. They sent me a statement last year. Um >> Okay. >> And I just had trouble like getting in there because I thought I was co-signed on it. Like my name was still on it.

>> Not on a parent. No. What? You're you can't get in there, but what was the balance?

>> It was about 19,000.

>> Okay, good. And what's your household income? >> A couple hundred. >> Um, so my husband and I, we make anywhere between 40 to 50K. Uh, we're working on growing our income right now.

He just started a business. Um, and that's gradually growing as time goes by. >> And how much debt do you have other than this 19k parent plus loan?

So without that would be about 30k

of it. >> Uh 16's on credit cards. He has a credit card. Um and then uh we have a car which

is only about 9,800 of it.

And then the rest is other student loans because I went back into school thinking

I can do it now that I was sober because I went through this whole time period where I was struggling in addiction and I really got behind on finances and it a

long time to catch up.

>> Uh this is my fourth year.

>> Good for you. Proud of you.

>> What were you what were you on? What were you addicted to?

Um, mainly, so I started out on

psychedelics and then I would use weed to kind of make up for it. >> Yeah. >> When I gave up the harder stuff.

>> And you've been dry for four years. Good for you, kiddo. And you got a baby and things are turning around. Your husband's got a new business. Good.

Good. Good for you. I'm glad.

>> Yeah. >> Good. Thank you. >> Are you working full-time right now?

>> So, yes, I am working full-time. I'm an independent contractor in the marketing industry as a brand ambassador. Um, so I

have busier seasons like throughout the summer and spring into fall and then

winter is our slower season. So we like to make up for it with uh Instacart and

then we also do ministry on the side. So we have some fundraising money that's coming in and we're starting to learn how to fundra for that stuff.

>> All right. Yeah. And he's got to get his business going because y'all don't make any money.

>> No, we don't make a lot. >> Yeah. You you Well, you need to really get the career going. both the careers going and get them going because basically what we're saying is you got $30,000 worth of debt plus 19 that you promised to pay of your mom's.

And again, you're not legally obligated. So what I would do is deal with what's in your house right now. Let's get your income up and address these debts smallest to largest.

>> But it's not in your name. You are not legally liable. you're just morally liable because you hand did a handshake with your mom, said, "I'll pay it."

>> Right. And I think the problem is like

I've I explained that to her recently that we're trying to do a snowball.

We're just getting our household in line and then paying off the way you guys teach. >> Um but there we don't have the best relationship. It's already strained.

>> Yeah. >> And like we don't talk. She hasn't even met her grandson yet. Oh man.

>> Cuz I don't feel like I can and let her into my life. >> Yeah. Well, that's okay. I mean, you still are going to go and pay the bill when you can pay the bill.

>> You paying a bill one way or paying it another way is not going to fix your relationship with your mom.

>> And it's not going to fix her money problems either, >> right? >> She's not paying it now. So, I mean, if you want to start paying the minimum payment on it as a part of your plan, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. attack the little one and when it's gone attack the next one.

That's snowball process, right? If you want to pay this and put this in the debt snowball that way, I don't have a problem with that.

Regardless of if it upsets the person that's already upset.

Oh, well, >> right.

>> Yeah. What kind of business does your husband do?

>> Um, so he kind of does a lot of different things related to music. He rents equipment and then he's a a show promotion promoter. Um, and he runs a record label. So, there's a lot of different things going on in that area.

>> Which one is most lucrative?

>> The most lucrative would probably be his show promotion and planning. We make we

we're making up to 200 a show right now.

>> So, he needs to do 10 shows a month to make two grand >> about. Yeah. >> Is he doing that?

Um, no, but we're just getting started.

He just got started with that like a couple months ago. >> I wouldn't make this a side hustle and he should be working full-time doing something else, even if it's retail because you guys need consistent income right now. We can't hope for a show and hope for a brand ambassador gig. We need stability. >> Yeah. When Instagram's your fallback, it means you need new careers,

>> right? So, the problem is he had a manager job last October. Um, and there

was a lot of politics with the regional manager and just last minute lost his job when I was pregnant. Um, and so he's been trying to get a lot of like jobs

that doesn't require like 60 70 hours as

a manager and they won't hire him unless he's like fulltime.

>> Yeah, he he needs he's got a baby. He needs to be working full-time. >> He's in crippling debt and his family needs him. He should be working 60 hours a week right now. We got a mess to clean up. Yeah. Great place to go when you're broke to work.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

Our question of the day is brought to you by why refi. You've tried budgeting.

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Kurt in South Carolina. I decided to dive into real estate investing a few years ago. I bought five single family homes, all 100% financed for a total of $825,000 and thought, "Wow, I'm a genius." I also had 175,000 personal mortgage and 40,000

in student loans. I had my wakeup call last week when I had to take my 3-year-old with me to post an eviction notice on a tenants's door. I just didn't take into consideration the time and the emotional stress this leap would require, not to mention the constant calls for repairs. The house's cash flow and the tenants pay on time, but at this point, the return doesn't outweigh the hassle.

I bring home 150k from my day job and my wife, who's a stay-at-home mom, could work from home if needed.

Man, this guy sounds like a a young Dave Ramsey.

>> It's exactly the Well, except I had a

little better situation than he's got.

>> Yeah, he's 100% financed. He's got personal student loans >> and he's going, "How do I get out?" Well, the good news with a house is you can sell them. So, that's maybe one way out of this mess. >> George, that was insightful. >> I'm I'm Yoda of the finance world.

>> That's it. Just sell the house, dude. I mean, why do you even need to ask the question >> and he'll He might take a loss on some of them. I mean, who knows what the >> Oh, well, you pay some stupid texts for doing stupid stuff, but play stupid games, get stupid prizes. But yeah, I mean, I've done that, right? And you have, too. Everybody's done that. But yeah, you just woke up and went, I just did a bunch of $825,000 worth of stupid.

The good news I can probably get 800,000 worth out of it and it'll only be $25,000 worth of stupid. So, and I make 150 so I'll clean up the mess.

>> Yeah. The good news is his day job has a great income and so >> maybe they went up in value enough.

>> He said a few years ago so if this is you know 2022 we've seen some decent appreciation over the last few years. >> Yeah. In South Carolina maybe make a little money on it even and get out whole. That would be incredible.

>> Knock out your student loans in the process. get you an emergency fund and restart from there and do it the right way, which is slow, which is let's get rid of the personal mortgage first, then save up and pay cash for any investment property. >> Katie's in Utah. Hi, Katie.

>> Hey, Dave. I'm better than I deserve.

How are you? >> Just the same. What's up?

>> So, I am the mother of eight children.

We just had our eights back in April, and I homeschool them. I stay home with them, and my husband is a physician assistant. Um, and a couple years ago,

we bought our first home at the top of the market, top of interest rate. Um, we were kind of lured into it by the 21 buyown idea, and our mortgage hit its

full scope in July. And, uh, I feel like

I'm going crazy. So, I'm wondering if you would advise us to actually sell our home.

>> How much is your house payment?

>> Uh, 3,900.

>> And what's your husband's take-home pay?

He makes 120,000 and that's um he works

full-time at one clinic and he works he picks up a couple extra shifts at another clinic and he's also donating plasma every week so we can pay for groceries.

>> Yeah, cuz your house payment is 50% of your take-home pay.

>> I know. I know. And it was before the 21

started even I mean it already was in the stupid zone when as soon as you moved in the 21 didn't even buffer that.

>> We were living with my parents and I was expecting my seventh child and my husband was commuting an hour every day.

>> Yeah. But I mean you went from you went from homeless in your mother's basement >> to $4,000 a month.

>> I know. >> This is not like a small step. This was a great leap.

>> I know. >> Yes. You got to sell your house, kid. You bought a house you can't afford.

>> Unless his income is about to double, which I I don't think that's in the cards. >> I know it's not. The The thing, too, is that he loves his job so much and where we live is actually very very expensive.

So, even renting um like a threebedroom house would cost us around 3,000 a month where we live. >> Well, you can't you can't afford to live there then.

>> That's I've been telling him this for a long time. Back in May when I had my four-week old baby, I said, "Let's just sell our house and live in a trailer." I'm willing to do anything, but it's hard for me to get him on board with making >> I'm not saying live in a trailer, but like you you go to extremes.

>> You go to extremes $3,000 a month rent

to a trailer in one sentence.

>> I know. >> Why don't you just go do something reasonable like 2,000 bucks a month and live out far enough away that you can find that and let him go to work?

>> Okay. >> Yeah. and let's get rid of this problem.

But yeah, yeah, don't you know um and then let's start talk. Maybe you can find something you could buy that fits in that. I don't care if you own or not.

Um but but the house payment needs to be

more like a fourth of your take-home pay, not half of your take-home pay,

especially when you have eight little birds to feed.

>> That's I can't imagine eight kids in a trailer. That's stressful. >> No, we're not doing a trailer and we're not going back to mamas either. None of that's necessary. But I mean, we're a fur piece from there at four grand a month. Okay, that's a this is a big big

serious nice house here. So, there's a

lot of different things we can do. Uh Millie is in Washington. Hi, Millie. How are you?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Um well, I've had to pay the stupid tax

and I did the wrong thing in the past and I'm trying to do the right thing now. So, I'm calling you asking for advice.

My question is, um, should I cash out my

index fund? And if I should, should I use it to pay towards student loans or for car repairs or for both?

>> What's wrong with your car?

>> Um, one of the problems they're not sure, they can't figure it out. The other one is like uh the cooling system he's replacing and their estimate for that is, 1900.

>> Who estimate? The dealer?

No, the mechanic.

>> You have an independent mechanic that doesn't work at a dealership.

>> Correct. >> Good. Okay. Are you Is it just you or you're single or you're married?

>> I am single with five children.

>> Okay. And what's your income, ma'am?

>> Um up until this month is about 3,000, but I am um increasing my hours and I

did just get a raise. Um, I do have some health issues from keeping me from working too many hours or physical labor, but for the job I have.

>> How old are the kiddos? >> I'm working what I can. Um, my youngest

is 12 and the oldest is 18. She set it off to college here this week.

>> Is there any child support or alimony?

>> No. >> Wow. there. But in lie of alimony, I did

uh when we divorced, I um I did get a

little bit extra on the house when we sold it.

>> And that money is in the index fund. How much is in your index >> exactly?

Um 7,800.

>> Not much. Okay. And how much student loan debt do you have?

>> About 90,000.

>> Okay. Well, number one, you're out here

you're out there fighting this by yourself. So, you got to get the car to where it's reliable, >> okay? Period. And more debt is not not the answer to do that. So, yes, we have to use some of this to get the car reliable >> and the rest of it. Um, >> you know, we're going to try to make sure that you continue to move up in your career and continue to raise your income because that's going to be the issue to address the 90,000. What did you get your degree in?

Um, I got it in marriage and family therapy. >> Okay. Undergrad or did you finish your masters? >> My masters. >> You're licensed?

>> Yes, sir. >> Why are you not doing that?

>> I am doing that >> $3,000 a month.

>> Yes, because I was only working um three

days a week, but I'm increasing I just increased it to four days and like I said, they just gave me a raise, so it will be going up. >> Yeah. Part of the issue is that I work 50 miles from home. So, um it makes it a

little bit of a juggle with the kids and making sure they're out the door in the morning and such. So, >> can you do any remotely part-time?

>> Um not with this company.

>> Okay. Because you know, if we can arrange rearrange this situation a little bit, a typical marriage licensed marriage and family therapist will make 100 plus a year.

Yes, but I only am at an associate level right now. I'm not fully licensed.

>> Why?

>> Um because I just graduated in 2023 and

just got this license in um 2024.

>> Oh, you got you got to get some hours you got to get some hours in to move up.

Okay. All right. Yeah, you're going to have I mean the income is going to be your overall answer, not a $7,800

uh index fund, but for now, the answer is yes, fix the car, but long-term, the answer is let's rearrange our situation so we can get our income up. And I think that's going to be really really important in order to be able to create a sustainable situation.

[Music]

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Greg is in San Diego. Hi, Greg. How are you? >> I'm doing well. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> So, after listening to your show, I I learned that I acknowledge that I made an impulsive decision. I attended a faith-based event in 2024 and the event

pretty much motivated uh faith believers to invest in the real estate uh market

and also the stock market. I paid for that training. I didn't have the money uh but they told me that if I charged it on credit cards that I would be able to make that money up during the zero interest period and pay off the charge and learn how to trade. Well, that period is gone and it didn't happen.

So now I'm now I'm stuck, you know, because now I have a $20,000 credit card debt from that and I haven't made much money on the stock market.

>> I'm sorry, Greg. Yeah, you got scammed.

Yeah, after the fact I I realized it and we were doing we were doing the snowball effect. We were going we're on track. We were about 20k away from reaching zero.

>> But when I saw this, I said, "Hey, we we can do this." And and I I'll accept, you know, my leadership decision at my home.

I I thought it sounded great. Um

>> but it is what it is. So I'll I'll >> You were looking for you know, you were looking for an easy button.

>> Yeah. >> And there is no easy button. Yeah. and this easy button's broken. It's and you've discovered that now. So, I'm sorry, man. Yeah, you just got to pay your 20 grand off and the last thing you need to do is keep investing the way they were teaching you because you're going to get in more trouble.

>> So, we do have money on the side because I was going to invest. So, you're saying >> Oh, you do more off paying off the debt?

>> Uh about 8,000 bucks.

>> Yeah. just you you know you're going to

do what you're going to do, but if you ask us, we're going to tell you what we would have told you before you did all this, and that's list your debts, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything, but the little one, and take all your money that's not in retirement accounts and throw it at these debts in that order, and let's get them cleaned up because the shortest distance between where you are in wealth is not an easy button stock market course. It is your income. And getting that back and understanding that the borrower is slave to the lender is the only way to do it.

There's nothing worse than a scam artist except a scam artist that wraps himself in Jesus >> and charges $20,000 for this quote unquote training.

that's heartbreaking. Greg,

>> that just pisses me off. It's so mad.

Just so wrong. Oh, but you know when you

fall for stuff like that, you you need to do a CSI on your character and your soul and your spirit and say, "Lord, what is what is in me that allowed me to believe that?" And um you know, there's a there's some

interesting proverbs. He who is impulsive

exalts folly.

Impulsive exalts folly. Folly is the verb of a fool in action. M >> and I have been a fool in action. I've been impulsive plenty of times in my life. But I exalt folly. I I lift up a

fool in action when when I'm impulsive.

I become a fool in action. The the other one says, Proverbs says, um, "The wise

see trouble and seeks refuge. The simple

continues on and is punished for it."

>> You just keep walking right off the cliff. >> Yeah. And just keep moving. And I've I've done that.

I've done that. I like I know better. I know this is bad. He even said it.

He's like, I know down inside of me this is not I know this I'm I know this is and you walk right into it anyway. >> That wisdom section of the brain just shuts down. You go I can get rich quick though. >> There's something about it and I'm simple.

Then that's a another word for fool, right?

And man, when you start studying fool in Proverbs, you start seeing yourself it's painful. It's just like God, I did that.

Yeah, I did that. I did that one, too.

And the number of times I've been a fool and it survived. Because a biblical fool is not a greeting. It's not like not like, "Hey, fool." No, this is like an idiot. I mean, this is like when I have done this, I was an idiot, you know?

It's like, yeah. So, Greg, I can relate, man. I can relate. It's been I haven't done that one in a long, long time, but I did that one once myself. It's not 20 grand, but I mean it's, you know, you believe that there's an easy button and they'll sell you a course on how to get the easy button. >> A get-richqu scheme is what we would call it now looking back at it, right?

And you go, >> the wise, the wise see that they seek refuge. They see danger and they seek refuge. >> The simple continues on and is punished for it. >> Healthy skepticism. These Facebook ads.

>> Exactly. >> Or however he fell for it.

>> Yeah. There's a healthy skepticism on anything on social media, period. Is it

even real nowadays? Right. Is it Is it AI? Yeah. >> Oh gosh. >> Did he really say that? I saw one the other day that I was promoting car loans. >> Someone asked me. They said, "Hey, I saw a video of you and Dave promoting these car loans." I said, "Nope, that was a scam from AI and the devil himself." >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if it's completely perpendicular to everything you know about us, come on. I mean, how dumb are you to believe that? That that's not AI.

But yeah, there it is. And it's just golly. But yeah, it's we're there with you, brother, but I'm sorry you have to clean up the mess. The good news is you probably never make that mistake again.

That's a good news. Amy's with us. Amy's in Chicago. How are you, Amy?

>> Hi. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Um, I've been listening to the show for about a year and I'm almost

through with the last bit of our debt.

We've paid off $500,000 in medical school debt in one year.

Yes, we got radical. We sold our house and used part of the equity to downsize

and the rest to pay off the medical school debt. >> Wow. So, what's your household income now?

>> Um, well, my my husband's a doctor, so we're we're doing pretty okay. We make about 25,000 a month.

>> Wow. Good. I'm so glad. Congratulations.

>> Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Um, but I'm

in a weird situation with a car loan.

Um, I'm in outside sales and so I drive

for work and I'm putting on easily 2,000 miles on my car uh a month >> and I had to buy the car for the job and now I'm underwater. So I'm underwater about $7,000 and I've just been told

that my company is going to be going to fleet vehicles in the next year. We have basically a year to three years to start participating in the fleet vehicles. So Bill gives me a car and they'll cover all the costs associated with it. Love it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> well, that means between now and the time you get the fleet vehicle, you got to get this one sold and cover the 7,000, right?

>> Yeah. >> When's it when are you going to get the fleet vehicle? Do you know?

>> Um, it'll probably be sometime next year that they'll open it up for us to start doing that. And, um, at that point, I'll have to I'll have to have something to drive between now and then. >> Yeah. We'll just keep driving it unless what's it worth getting paid down? You got great income.

>> Yeah, that was my question. And do I keep driving this and just pay it down

until I'm no longer underwater or do I try and like sell it, get something cheap? >> Well, if you pay it off, you're going to get all the equity when you sell it.

>> The difference in now in 6 months is doesn't matter.

>> Okay. >> So, just just pay it off. Let's just get it paid off as soon as you can. And then you get sitting there with a paid for car. It's got a lot of miles and you sell it when you get the fleet vehicle. >> I mean, you can knock it out before the end of the year, right?

>> I think so. I think you can.

Um, it's 36,000.

>> Yeah, you can knock it out because you now you got a $400,000 income, don't you? >> You make 25K a month if you throw >> makes 25K. >> Yeah. You make how much?

>> I make uh 165 base. He makes 165 base.

And we both make commissions.

>> Okay. All right. Wow. Good for y'all.

>> So, yeah, this thing's knocked out by Christmas and you don't you're not losing sleep over it and then you'll sell it when you get the fleet vehicle and whatever it's worth. And that makes you debtree, right?

>> Yeah. Woo.

>> Yeah. Let's knock it out and then and be done with it, man. Wow. Good for you.

Good for you.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Casey's in Ohio. Hi, Casey. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm doing great. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> So, um me and my husband are on baby

step two. Um I have a debt about 6,000

and including his it will be a total of 78,000.49 is 68 cents which I find very appalling

and we are >> Stop stop a second. I didn't understand what you said. You said he has 78,000 on what? >> Um no so I owe 6,000 and adding my

husband debt husband's debt it's going to total up to 78,000.

Okay. So, your husband has $72,000 in debt and you have 6,000.

>> Yes. >> And his 72,000 is on what?

>> It's mainly on student loans.

>> Mhm. And what's your 6,000?

>> Um, it's medical bill and credit card. I have 4,000 in medical bill.

>> How long have y'all been married? >> 5 a year, but we've been together for

six years. >> Okay. And what's your household income?

Um um what I make as a nurse is about 90,000 and my husband has his own

insurance company which is not doing well and he makes about 30. Um he did

get a new job right now which uh which he get he brings home um 3,000 to 4,000

now monthly. Our main issue is mainly um

he him disagreeing on my me giving

tights um every month and I do not like

the fact that he has leased a Tesla and sold our car which we only had two years and we could have paid it off.

So I'm not sure how we can, you know,

work together together to tackle this debt and have >> Yeah. When when y'all got married, did you not talk about like doing life together?

>> I didn't think so. Before getting

married, I was thinking about like, oh, my money's my money and your money is yours. But I am watching your show. I

just I've come up on your show probably

like a couple months ago and that's when I realized that um Yeah.

>> So, you want to get out of debt and he doesn't really care. What's the status now? >> Well, he does care, but he doesn't agree with the baby steps. Um, he wants um I

don't know, he doesn't want to get up his credit card. He thinks we need credit to get approved to buy a house to get a car and things like that. And in one of your videos, >> how old are you?

>> We're 33.

>> Wow. You sound like you're 20.

>> I I Yes. I >> He sounds like he's 20. He's so immature. Yeah. >> Um, >> yeah. >> Wow.

Okay. Um, so what's his plan to get out of this mess?

>> He just wants he wants to pay off the

smallest amount that doesn't have an interest. >> Yeah. >> I mean, that does have an interest. He wants to start with that. But I know with the baby steps, you have to um

start with the smallest amount first, which >> I've been doing. I've been doing that myself, but um he hasn't.

>> I'm sorry. I'm just so overwhelmed. I've never been in this so much debt before.

The most debt I've had was a 6,000 and

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, here's what you need to do, hun. Okay. You need to sit down with him tonight and say, "I'm so scared. I can't breathe. And you are killing me.

>> So, I'm going to go see a marriage counselor because our marriage is in deep trouble.

and I'd like for you to go with me.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. >> And you need to go see a marriage counselor. >> Mhm. >> Okay. You don't need to be talking to two goobs on a podcast when your marriage is falling apart.

>> All right. You got to sit down with somebody that can actually help you and him grow up >> and walk through the process of learning to respect each other, combine,

communicate. But this guy does whatever he wants to do and then just comes home and tells you I leased a Tesla. I mean, that's a husband needs to be smacked.

>> And so, um, I can't help you with that cuz I can't reach him from here. But, um, >> it's clear he doesn't respect your opinions on money and he doesn't make any money, which is kind of humorous. >> You're making triple what he makes >> and then he then he but he's got all these opinions. That's hilarious. broke people with deep financial principles and so but yeah it's that all that comes out in marriage counseling but you're terrified and your husband's causing it. So that

tells me that we have marriage counseling issues and you need to sit down with somebody. I'm sorry you're going through this kiddo. All right, Eric is next. Eric's in Houston. Hi Eric. How are you?

>> Hey Dave. How's it going buddy? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Yeah, I just need uh some, you know,

advice from Uncle Dave. I call you Michael because I've been listening to you for a little while now. So, I just need uh some advice. Um I'll give you the quickest, shortest story uh rundown I can. A year ago, I was facing some

legal uh troubles, had to go to court, stuff like that. I needed a lawyer. So, I went to my uncle. He was doing a little bit well off financially. So I

told him uh if he can help me find a lawyer, you know, but he decided to take on everything himself. He paid for the lawyer with, you know, the lawyer with me to court. Fast track a year up to to

today. Um, you know, I've come to find

out, you know, from the news and everything that he gained all his um all

his money from illegal immigrants looking and seeking, you know, uh legalization uh uh green

card stuff like that to be able to live here in the US. He was defrauding them,

telling them that he, you know, he he works for the law firm. He can help them expedite that situation. >> Your uncle was doing this.

>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. >> How much do you owe your uncle for the lawyer?

>> I I owe him 10,000.

>> Uhhuh. And what do you make?

>> Okay. But but let me give you Let me give you just a quick sidetrack to that.

The money that he gave me, the money that he accumulated from all these people, it was about 1.4 million. FBI

and everybody, they did a they did a joint task force investigation and and you know where I'm at now. I'm I'm

trying to figure out morally, you know, should I pay him back? I would

like to try to help out somebody, you know. I mean, >> I don't know that you can. Have they seized his bank accounts? I mean, I'm guessing he's going to jail for a long time. >> Yeah, they seized his bank account. He he bought a couple. >> Do you have $10,000?

Um, no. >> Okay, then it doesn't matter, does it?

>> Yeah. I mean, I mean, but the thing about it, the thing about it, Dave, is that he's he's been he's been hounding me and he, you know, he's been >> hounding you for money you don't have.

>> Exactly. And he's been throwing my name under the rug to my whole family, making me out to be this bad person. But >> we don't have to worry about what he thinks cuz he's a scam artist. He's going to jail. Okay. We're not going to have some kind of moral Nobody Nobody's worried about his opinion of anything.

>> He's a criminal. >> He's a criminal.

>> Yeah. None of that. None of that matters. But but what does matter is is regardless of how horrible a person he is or what he said or did,

>> he loans you $10,000 and you owe him $10,000. So someday when you get some

money and you get a job and all that, you probably ought to pay the man back what you owe him regardless of morally regardless of what you what he has done.

Um, you know, that's up to you. But you

can do that. But that that's your only option is either not pay him or pay him.

But you don't have an option today at all because you don't have the money. So it's theory right now. He can call you.

He can hound you. He can tell all the relatives that you're a bad guy while he's sitting in a jail cell because the FBI raided him. That's funny. He's

telling people you're a bad guy. That's that's that's kind of humorous if you think about it. But yeah, I I wouldn't worry about it, Eric. When you get some money together, then deal with the problem. And when you get some money together, if you you someday should pay the band back what you owe him, regardless of his character. Cuz you

paying him back is not about his character. It's about yours.

And so I want you to pay him, but not today. You don't have it.

>> It's living rent free in your head until you do pay him. I can tell it's weighing on you. You don't like what it's doing to your reputation. So >> I'm not paying him because of anything he says or does. And I'm not paying him because your mama calls cuz he called her. I'm not paying him for any of that.

I'm just paying him because I owe it.

It's that simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

Heat. Heat.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios.

George Camel Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Briana is with us in Maryland. Hi Brianna, how are you?

Hi Dave. I'm so glad to be here.

>> Oh, it's good to have you. How can we help? >> Um, well, I'm feeling overwhelmed. I

recently signed up for the free version of the Every Dollar app. I did all of my budgeting. Um, I'm still feeling underwater and I can't find a second job. But I'm calling because I want to find out if the 400% interest rate for

the payday loan that I originally took out for 1,500 um is considered actual debt. It's not on my credit report. Um I've already paid about 2,500 of it. Um and when I

realized that I I kind of like stopped answering their calls and ignoring them.

So just not sure what to do.

>> Why are you ignoring them?

Um, I really don't have the the the extra finance to pay them and I figured it wasn't showing up on my credit report so it wasn't necessarily hurting me and

I kind of felt like they already got their money because the loan was for 1.5 originally.

>> Well, it's debt. I mean, owing anyone anything for any reason is debt and so whether it has shown up on your credit report or not uh isn't the issue. You've you've got clearly a bad cycle. I mean there there's a lot of problems that got you into that payday loan um payday lender, right? What caused this?

>> Yeah. Um well, I do a lot of lending, I guess, to my family and I'm actually currently trying to get out of like our family savings club. Like we all put in like 600 a month and then when your month comes, like you get the the money. Um

and then I recently uh got a car. It was

15,000, but I'm upside down. Um, it's

just $55,000 student loans. So, I'm just

trying to like make it day by day. I have a clearer picture of my finances with the Every Dollar app, but I don't understand why it's so hard to find a second job right now.

>> What's your total debt?

>> I've got 75,000.

>> And what are you making right now? >> Student loans. Uh, 61,000 a year. about

3,800 net.

>> Okay. And your well, your smallest debt is now what is it? The payday loan.

>> No. Um a $900 buy now pay later uh type

thing. >> What did we use that for?

>> Uh I got a TV.

>> Okay. How long ago was that?

>> Um it was about two months ago and I was

paying the minimum. >> Mhm. When did you start the Every Dollar app?

I only started a few weeks ago. I just started listening. >> Okay, good. Good. All right. Have you stopped your 401k?

>> Um, I did. I did stop that. It was only $900 in there anyway. >> And you're going to stop the family thing today. Just call the family and say I'm out.

>> Okay. >> They're not going to take that. Well, you know, >> I'm sorry. Tough. I I'm broke. I owe a

payday lender 400% interest. I don't need a I don't need a family savings club. You're taking out a 400% interest loan to put into the family savings club. Do you understand how crazy that is?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, that stops today. Just, you know, sorry guys, I'm sorry. I messed up my finances and it's going to take me a little while to get them straightened out and I've got this payday lender.

I've got to get off my back and I'm I'm sorry. So, yeah, I can't put anything else in and I can't participate in something that involves money right now.

Um, so um also not playing I'm also not

playing poker with you next week. So, um, you know, it's like we don't have any money. So, and and then I don't know why it's what what do you do for a living?

>> Um, I'm actually a secretary for, uh, the Defense Counter Intelligence Department. So, like I really can't have my finances out of order, otherwise I'd lose my job. >> Yeah. Well, your finances are out of order. If they did a security check on you, you're in trouble already.

>> Audit. >> Yeah. You've You've really got to get this mess cleaned up or you will lose this job. You're right. eventually the uh um so yeah I I you know there's lots

of things you can do part-time I mean you can clean houses uh you can pet sit

you can do all kinds of stuff part-time and uh I I would get with doing something starting yesterday immediately

>> six different things working my tail end off >> see if you can return that TV you're in a 90 >> secretarial work >> you don't have time to watch TV you got nine side jobs you're about to have and so just follow the that snowball it works. And get rid of this payday lender. I don't care what's on the credit report. You got to get this monkey off your back. Otherwise, it's going to be another fee, another rollover loan. And that's how people get stuck in these cycles.

>> If it's several months, if it's been several months since you paid them, you may be able to call them and settle it with a lump sum, but you'd have to have the lump sum. Say, "Look, I don't know what I owe you, but I've got $1,000. If you'll take that as settlement in full, we'll close this out." And but you need the $1,000 in your hand to be able to have that discussion. And that is involving extra work and extra income.

Anything you can do to create some extra income that's l that's moral and legal, you need to start doing it yesterday.

Lisa's in Georgia. Hi Lisa. How are you?

>> I'm fine. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um question. I've been married for 42

years and then in the last few years my husband's been diagnosed with um mild to moderate dementia. With that is come a

lot of um radical changes in his personality as far as our finances. The latest is we have a second home we have for sale and now he wants to rent it out

and I'm at a point in our lives where I

feel like we need to sell it, take the equity, invest it. That's our retirement. >> Is he does he is he aware that he has dementia?

>> He's aware but denial. Strong denial.

>> Then he's not aware. He doesn't believe he doesn't believe he has >> he doesn't believe he does not believe he has dementia. Uh one of the things he

wants to do in our discussions now with the sale of the house, he's decided that he wants to take 50% of the proceeds and spend it any way he wants to. And >> the answer is no. The answer is no. You have dementia and I'm not going to go along with anything you want to do.

No.

>> Well, that's the way I've been pushing back. >> No, you have dementia. You are not of your right mind. And no, we are not going along with any plan you have. I'm here to take care of you. I have for 42 years. I'm going to stick with you in sickness and in health. And we're not doing anything you want to do with money. You have dementia.

>> So, how do I move forward to do I need to to do a court order that he can't because everybody else think there's nothing wrong with him. I see.

>> Wait, everybody else? I thought you said the doctor had diagnosed him.

>> Yeah, that's true. Well, then everybody else doesn't think that. Just the doctor. >> Just the do. Yeah, it just he thinks his There's his friends and his >> Well, who gives a crap what his friends think? >> Yeah, exactly. So, do I need to get an

attorney and do a court order so that he can't make these decisions because right now we're 50/50 on account. He can do whatever he wants.

>> I don't know how to move forward.

Yeah, I think you have him declared incompetent in court.

>> Okay. >> And your physician's going to have to go along with that cuz he's not of right mind. We have to protect him from himself. >> Yeah. I don't know that he'd sign a power of attorney for you to have financial control. >> No, he's not going to do that cuz he doesn't think he's got dementia.

>> Correct. >> So, he's going to need to be forced into it. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, in order to take care of him, he's not of his right mind. That's sad. I'm so sorry that cuz you know when people get early onset, they they generally turn either really mean or really nice. It sounds like he's gone the mean one. >> So, um, wow. I'm sorry. And so, it's

going to be really combative, but yeah, what his friends think doesn't matter. I mean, that's irrelevant. What his mama thinks doesn't matter. I mean, what the what the doctor says he's got this and you've observed the pattern, then your job as his spouse is to take care of him

in spite of him. And yeah, that's a court order.

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Ed is in Kentucky. Hi, Ed. How are you?

>> I am doing well. How about yourselves?

>> Just the same, sir. What's up?

>> All right. Well, uh, thank you all so much. So, my wife and I were really excited. Uh, we bought our house back in '08 and we have been throwing a lot of

money to get it paid off and we are on track to have our house paid off by Thanksgiving of this year.

>> Way to go. Good for you.

>> Thank you. Took a lot of hard work. Um, but so, you know, we're really excited about what's coming up next, but also that's a lot of unknown for us. And so, you know, we we keep investing in our 401k. I've actually upped my 401k uh

contribution rate and she's going to be doing the same. But just wanted to try to at least get an idea of what are some things that suggestions that you all would have for us post having the house

paid off because after that we will have no other debts. >> Yeah. Way to go. Well, maybe step seven, we just say build wealth and give. And

so there's three buckets and you need to be very intentional with the money that you will have and you're going to have a lot of it now because no payments, right? >> Um and go, you know, there's three things we can do. We can have fun and enjoy the money and you need to do some of that. You can invest some and you need to do some of that and you can be outrageously generous and you need to do some of that.

And so, um, you know, you're still going to look at the pile of money coming in every month and you're still going to assign it to something that falls in one of those three buckets.

>> Yeah, definitely. And, you know, definitely, you know, um, the fun part

and the invest part and the generous part. Yeah, that that totally makes sense and that's something that we really want to do. And you know, we just want to also make sure by the time we retire that we can retire and have some peace of mind. And so, >> how old are you?

>> Um, I'm 42.

>> And how much is in your 401ks now?

Retirement account? >> Uh, right. >> Uh, well, in my retirement account, I currently are I'm currently at uh 340,000.

>> You and your wife?

>> And my wife um she actually has a little

bit more. Uh, she was actually at around 500,000. >> Okay. She got 850,000 in retirement right now. What's the house worth?

>> The house is worth

175,000.

>> Okay. So, you're millionaires.

>> Cool. >> In your 40s. That's pretty neat. Yeah.

Yeah. The 800,000 if you don't touch it.

You know, you said you're 40. What?

>> I'm 42. >> You're 42. So, if it's invested in good mutual funds, when you're 49, it'll be 1.6.

And when you're 56, it'll be 3.2.

And when you're uh 60

63, it's going to be 6.4.

You're okay.

You did it. You're real far ahead on retirement. So, I wouldn't worry you. Keep investing. Don't, you know, let the foot off the gas there. But also figure out, hey, do we want to upgrade in house? Could we pay cash for a different house, you know, 5 years from now? Yeah.

>> Start set setting some goals in your spending, saving, and giving go uh areas at least once a year and then check in and do the monthly budget. >> You've been so focused on this house, there's some stuff you need to do in the fun category. You need to upgrade her car. You need to go on a trip you've been telling her for 20 years you were going to do.

I don't know what it is, but there's some stuff y'all need to do. >> Renovate the kitchen.

just keep all of those things moving and you know make just make lists of things we want to do and then let's force rank them. What do we want to do first? What do we want to do second? What do we want to do third? And then you start you know fund that with what used to be a house payment and you're you're going to be in great shape man. I mean you're really doing beautiful. I'm proud of you.

Pretty stinking incredible. Uh, Cantry is with us in Texas. Hi, Cantry. How are you?

>> Yes, sir. I am doing good. >> Good. How can we help?

>> Uh, yes, sir. So, I am currently joining the United States Army Special Forces, and if I pass, I will get a $34,000

sign on bonus. Uh, I'm used to being broke, so I'm not sure exactly what to do with that, but there's a motorcycle that I want to get that is about $20,000. What do you think I should do with that bonus?

>> How old are you, sir?

>> I'm 20. >> Thank you for serving your country. We appreciate you.

>> Yes, sir. Thank you. >> Um, well, I I number one, if you invest in

things that go down in value, you're going to be broke your whole life.

Yes, sir. >> Motorcycles go down in value. I don't mind you getting the bike, but you don't need a $20,000 bike. What are they paying you? What are they going to be paying you? Not counting the signing bonus. >> Uh, it's going to be about 2500 a month.

>> Good. >> But, of course, I will be living on base, so I don't have to pay for living expenses. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, you need to be very, very careful with what happens to that 2500 a month, and you need to be very careful with what happens to the 34,000.

I would spend some of it on fun, but I wouldn't spend twothirds of it on fun.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, no, I wouldn't buy a $20,000 bike.

You make You're 20 years old, you make $2,500 a month. You're brand new in the military. Um, but if you want to get a $5,000 bike for fun, that that'd probably be okay. You know, you have a car. >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Uh, yes, sir. I have a 01 Silverado. >> Is it paid for?

>> Yes, sir. Uh, also I do have a loan that I'm currently It's a $4,000 loan. I've

already paid about 1,400 of it off.

>> Good. Okay. >> So, should I take that bonus?

>> Definitely. Definitely wrap that up, too. Knock it knock that out. Set you some money aside as an emergency fund.

Get you a toy, but a cheaper one.

>> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> And uh and then let's start talking about investing and doing grown-up stuff with some of this money.

>> A lot of the guys you're running around with aren't going to be doing that.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Because we've worked with the military for 30 years and when you step off the base and most of the bases in the US down each side of the road for the next 2 and a half miles is stupid.

>> Yes, sir. >> Every stupid thing a 20-year-old could possibly do is on each side of the road all the way down through there. And it's like they set it up to suck all the money out of you guys. It's a shame, but it is.

It's like stupid on parade right outside the base gates everywhere you go. >> And you know, you you can really screw up here, man. So, be a be a be a grown-up and not a little kid with the way you're looking at this stuff. And thank you for asking the question.

It's a good wise question. >> Yeah. I mean, this 34 grand is going to disappear quick in a good way if you do the right things with it. You pay off this loan, that's 2500 bucks.

Maybe put 20 grand aside in your savings and spend five grand on a bike and fund a Roth IRA with the rest of it. It's gone. And then you can't do something stupid with it because it's gone. >> Yeah.

Yeah. You're going to be in you're going to be able to do a lot of fun stuff with this over time. But, um, yeah, uh, >> use this to set yourself up with a great foundation.

And >> by the way, the $5,000 bike is probably a fouryear-old version of your 20.

That's how much it's going to go down in value. >> So, maybe get on Facebook. Maybe a fiveyear. Yeah. >> You'll find a 24 year old who made that decision at 20 who's now trying to sell it. There you go. He's probably in the

military.

Yeah. That could easily happen.

>> If you're on base and you jump on Facebook, all those people are probably in the military. So, that's how to find the deals right there. >> Yeah, that could easily happen. No doubt about it. Well, everybody needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to figure out and find the pros who aren't

just looking to make a buck. And let's get an agent who actually knows their stuff. With a Ramsey Trusted Insurance Pro, you never have to deal with a sleazy business or slimy salesperson because they're all interviewed. Our Ramsey trusted people are vetted.

They're coached to make sure they are market experts and uh we don't deal with anyone who's going to slam you. It's pretty simple. They got your best interest at heart. Go to ramseysolutions.com/co to find the type of insurance you're looking for and to connect with a Ramsey trusted agent or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or on podcast. By the way,

folks, if you are listening or watching the show, uh, please click the follow button, the share button, share it with somebody, let somebody know we're here, and of course, you can click the subscribe button. All of those things matter. And leaving that nice five-star review with glowing comments about George is always helpful.

>> And Dave's good looks, that helps, too.

>> Yeah, that's what people get. >> I didn't ask him to lie. I just asked him to say good things, that's all. Just saying good things, that's all. Dave has a face for radio, but we love listening to it. It's all good. We can do that. I can handle that.

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Leonell is with us on the stage right here, the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsay Solutions. Where do you live?

I live in uh Meny, California.

>> Cool. Welcome to Nashville. And you're here to do a debtree scream. How much have you paid off? >> $75,117.

>> I love it. And how long did that take you, sir? >> Uh 20 months. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that two years? >> Uh $78,000 included my bonus for my base pay and around 96 uh 9 months after that.

>> Good for you. What do you do for a living? >> Uh I'm a CPA. >> Good for you. Wow. Very cool. How old are you? >> 25. >> What made you uh get in gear and say I'm going to get rid of 75,000 20 months ago? >> Um I was actually given a book called Foundations and Personal Finance. It was gifted to me in my last year of my MBA.

And I started seeing wow uh that's a lot

of debt. That was more than I was expecting cuz I went straight in not realizing you know how much I borrowed.

And I saw I was in a big hole. So, you said if I follow your plan, you know, be very uh aggressive towards the debt, I could pay it off within about, I believe you said a range of 20 to 24 months. So,

uh I said, "Okay, I'll do it. I'm going to bat hole. I'll do it." >> Wow. >> You took Dave up on the challenge.

>> I did. >> And he was right. >> Yeah, he was right. >> As per usual with Dave, I love that, man.

Congrats. So, this was our curriculum, the kind of the workbook for the curriculum, foundations and personal finance. >> It was a green book. It was a thin little green book.

>> Okay. >> Very cool. went through that. >> Very cool.

And the uh 75,000 was student loan debt. >> All student loans. Couldn't bankrupt on it. >> Okay, good for you.

>> Did you attempt to? You sound like you're like, I couldn't. >> Well, I learned in my CPA exams that student loans you can't bankrupt. >> Yeah.

>> So, >> so you're like, well, I guess I got to claw this out myself. I took the I took it out. I signed the dotted line. Let's knock this out.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Wow. What did you learn during the 20 months while you're working on this? Um, it's more behavioral than it is actually uh mathematical >> because I I would take a look at what you would talk about and you know I'm a I'm a CPA so I would just check everything you say >> and I say is this guy really right?

And he saw he said through the snowball method it's only around you know at most two months slower and when I looked at the avalanche method it came around that much for me.

Um, so I followed it and it worked

really, really well and it made sense.

>> M Wow. How's it feel to be free?

>> You know what? Um, I have a lot of peace. >> Actually, um, it's pretty great cuz, uh,

now I feel I can actually take risks I couldn't take before.

>> Like what? >> Well, I was really taking a look at my course study work that I can be really aggressive in my investing now. So I can actually grow my wealth as uh you know within reason um to actually uh grow my

wealth more. I was learning through education where they said the three biggest risks in stocks was overpaying, having to sell before you have to and bankruptcy. And by being debtree I'm

able to avoid overpaying by, you know, I

can invest in mutual funds, you know, using dollar cost average or I could do valuation with my my background. M um not having to sell when I before I want to is being debtree. That's the only thing I would really reduce your risk and therefore you're less desperate to go do something stupid and miss out on the market returns.

You're staying invested consistently.

>> Yes, sir. >> Way to go, man. So, if somebody's listening and uh they said, "Okay, guy

paid off 75,000 bucks in 20 months. How did he do that? What would you tell them the key is to getting out of debt?" Well, for me, I was a college student, so I delayed my life heavily. Um, I moved back in home with my parents. I didn't finance a car. I didn't go and get a mortgage for a home. Um, I lived

humbly and with uh my parents. And then

I just saved as much as I could. My goal was to only live on about 25% of my take-home pay, which I achieved. And I put 75K towards my not 75K, 75% of my uh

take-home pay towards my loans. And then I had people who could keep keep me accountable such as my brother and my my parents. >> Wow. >> And um >> so living on less than you make.

>> That was the key is just be super disciplined about that and you'll be shocked at how quickly you can knock out the debt. >> Absolutely. >> Which makes the avalanche method obsolete because of how fast you're knocking this out. Yeah. >> And even as a math nerd, you're like, "Yeah, you could. You might." But the people who actually become debtree, it's behavior. >> It's behavior. >> Way to go, man. That's big. We're proud of you. You got the rest of your life now to build wealth, to give, to enjoy.

So you went like one step backward going, "Well, I'm missing out right now.

There's probably some FOMO, but then you're catapulting forward exponentially." >> Yes. >> While your friends are going, "Dude, how are you investing that much?" I don't have debt.

>> That's incredible. >> Wow. Well, good for you. Good for you, man. That's awesome. I'm proud of you.

Very cool. Who was cheering you on as you went? >> Oh, definitely my brother, my father, and my mother. >> Mhm. And um I could tell that I made them really proud because I did something that they haven't done.

>> Yeah. >> Changing family. >> Now they're out of debt, you can get out of their basement. So >> yeah. >> Have you moved out yet? >> No, actually. Um I'm glad I paid off my debt so quickly cuz I got laid off.

>> Whoa. >> Yeah. So one month after paying off my debt, being aggressive, they're said, "Yep. Uh we don't see you as being uh meeting our standards or valuable. We got to let you go. We're going to go with other people." But um from there I was just glad I was really aggressive and >> you're working again now. >> Uh it's only been about a month or so.

>> Okay. >> So just been applying applying aggressively and I'm not too worried uh cuz my credentials and background. I'm willing to move if I have to. >> Yeah, you're a sharp guy. >> Good for you, man. Well done. Proud of you. Proud of you. And you brought your brother to stand with you while you do the debtree screen. Bring him up and introduce him. >> Hi. This is my brother, Denilo. He's following my footsteps. Uh he's doing everything I'm doing but better. >> I love it. Way to go, Denilo. Very cool.

Oh, very cool. All right, Lonel from California.

75,000 paid off in 20 months, making 78

to 96. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. 3 2 1 I'm debtree. Yes,

>> there we go. >> Oh my goodness. That was incredible.

He gave it his all on that one.

>> That's fun. >> Left it all on the dance floor, as they say.

>> I wish I had that energy, you know. I missed the 25-year-old energy. I'd probably hurt my back doing that now.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, you're staying up all night with newborns. >> Yeah. Different phase. >> Affects it affects your energy level, George. I'm just saying. What a great story. Well done, sir. Well done. Very, very proud of you. Good work. Jasmine's in Texas. Hi, Jasmine. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm doing fine.

>> Good. How can we help?

>> Um, so my husband and I are on baby step

two. We're kind of newer to the Ramsay um teaching method and um I was actually

recently laid off um as of yesterday.

Whoa. >> So it was >> Yeah, it was a little bit of a shock to us. >> You didn't know you didn't have any idea it was coming?

um we had some differences and my um

boss said that they I wasn't meeting the expectations that the company was wanting. Um so I thought I was fixing a lot of those issues and then yesterday they asked me for another meeting after um having a meeting last week and then they said that we're just going to have to let you go. >> So I thought that I had a little bit more time to kind of save up >> and it turns out I just had yesterday.

What what did you make?

>> Uh I made 45,000 >> doing what?

>> Um I was an admin assistant for um one

of the businesses local into the town that we live in. >> Mhm. Okay, cool. All right. And uh are

they giving you severance package?

>> Um they are not. >> Wow. Okay.

How long did you work there?

>> Um about a year.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. All right. And what does your husband make?

>> He makes 65,000.

>> Okay. So, you used to have a 110 income.

Now you have a 65 income for this moment.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Well, here's what we have found

and we faced your situation many many

many times over 30 years. The first thing is it's really emotional and you're semi kind of angry and scared

at the same time, right?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. The second thing is if you push through that and go out there right now

and go get another job fast, you'll probably get a better job than you had, paying more than you had. If you wallow in this for about six weeks, you're going to end up probably getting a worse job than you had.

So, you you throw the shoulders back and you brush your teeth and you go to work again fast. Hang on. We're going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, The Proximity Principle, which will help you get that next job quick. Quick. You're

better than they said you are. Girl, go get you something better.

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Heat. Heat.

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Our

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scripture of the day, Philippians 2:14 and 15. Do everything without grumbling or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God, without fault in a warped and crooked generation. Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky. Maya Angelo

said, "If you're always trying to be normal, you will never know how amazing you can be." Dave's in Maryland. Hi Dave. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. How are you, sir?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> I um well, first and and foremost, I want to thank you for everything that you've taught me over the years. You change helped me change my life financially and never thought that I would be in the position that I am today with money and it's because of everything I've learned from you.

>> Wow. Well, good for you, man. I'm proud of you.

Yeah, it's awesome. So, I just I've been struggling for a while now in my current relationship with my girlfriend. Um, I'm

just trying to figure out whether I should stay with her or not. And, um, a

lot most of it has to do with our differences financially.

>> How old are you guys?

>> So, I'm 48 and she's 44. We've been

dating for about five years and it's

kind of at the point to where this is either going to be it or it isn't, you know. >> Yeah. That's a long time.

>> Time to time to paint or get off the ladder, right? Huh. >> So, what's the difference in in financial values here?

>> Well, um I I'm a small business owner and um I

think I do pretty well. And she's I

don't know. I'm I'm more goal oriented,

money driven, uh success driven than she

is. Um and she really doesn't have a

whole lot financially or like possession

wise and things like that. And sometimes I just feel like I would rather date someone that has a solid career path, you know, makes a good good salary. Um

someone that's more focused on their

career and money. But on the other hand, we get along. I mean, she is just she's an amazing woman. She's the the best girl that I've ever dated in my life.

>> So, are you wanting someone who has the same level of drive you do?

>> Um, well, maybe not drive, but just

someone that's that's closer to me financially, you know.

>> So, you feel like there's a disparity between what how hard you've worked to build your wealth and success and how little she cares to do that for herself?

Yeah, something like that. And I guess it's also, you know, it's I'm afraid,

not afraid, but just being the bread winner. And um I don't know. It's it's a little difficult to explain, but I just I wish that she had more money and she had a better job. You know, that's that's pretty much >> What is she making?

>> She makes about 60 a year.

>> That's her solid income.

And I'm well see that's the thing because if we combined our finances I think we would do okay. I make between 80 and 90 a year and she makes about 60.

Um so we would bring in around 140

combined you know and we've been talking about moving in together and things like that but you know the money thing just

kind of is what's been holding me back.

>> I don't see any crazy red flags so far.

Is she in crippling debt that she refuses to get out of? She has spending problems? >> No, she No, she's very frugal. Uh she's a single mom. She raised her son pretty much on her own with help of from her family, but she's a single mom. She's very frugal. Um she's independent. She has no debt. I mean, she might have like a$1 or $2,000 credit card. Um if she

rents her house and her car is paid for,

>> I mean, you guys are going to build wealth together and you'll accumulate more assets and you'll have a paid for house together. And so I wouldn't judge this just based off of, well, she's not coming to the table with enough assets for me to move forward. You know, I I would need a little more ammo than that to end this relationship. And it's not like you make 400,000 and she makes 30.

And so the disparity is not as big as I think you think it is. It feels more emotional that you're worried you'll resent her and not respect her going down the line.

>> Yeah. Uh something like that. And and also I struggle a little bit because I

grew up in poverty, you know. So I've

I've had this inborn fear of poverty my

entire life and um that's why I saved so

much and um I guess sometimes I think what if the bottom fell out of my business and I didn't I lost my money? I could I count

on her to support us? I know that doesn't really make sense, but sometimes that's how I think, you know.

>> Well, I I'm not hearing any huge

uh fireworks going off in terms of some some kind of bad warning here. Uh this sounds like a lady who's who's um rolled up her sleeves, raised a kid by herself, and has pulled off life pretty well. Um yeah, you know, maybe she's not quite kept up with you, but um it's not like you make a million dollars a year and she makes 10,000 or something. I mean, this is not some huge disparity.

>> Uh it's fairly minor. Um but but I

here's the the big question is not how much money she has or how much money she makes. That part I that shouldn't even really be in the discussion. What should be in the discussion is do you respect her character, her work ethic, do you respect her intellect and what she can add to the equation? And if you don't respect someone, then it's very difficult to love them and they go together. And so, um, long-term, real

lengthy 25, 35 year marriage, 50-year

marriage love type stuff. Okay? If you think she's deficit the whole time, that's probably not going to end up being there. And so, but it's not based on her income and it's not based on that. Actually, the things you her story that you described to me, I think she's pretty incredible. So, um, but you know,

you gota you got to think that, um, that it's not me. I'm not marrying her. So, I got pretty incredible already. I've already got that covered about 44 years ago. So, um, but the, um, yeah, that

that that's what I'd be looking at. Um, it sound, you know, probably a good opportunity for some good pre-marriage counseling to sit down with a good marriage counselor and get this stuff out on the table and >> put those fears out there, >> kind of comb through it a little bit, that kind of thing. And um

you know the other thing that might help too, you kind you kind of brought up your poverty past. Uh let me send you a copy of Rachel Cruz's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. Uh it talks about your family of origin and how it affects your view on money, her family of origin, how it affects her view on money, even her story and it affects her view on money and how she get got to where she is. and um you guys get, you know, give you some jumping off points to understand each other a little bit better uh before you make the final decision on on marriage or on breakup, either one.

So, hey, thanks for the call. We appreciate you joining us. Open phones here at8255225.

So, George, one of the big things we get, and I think that know yourself, know your money book is helpful for that, um, is with couples that are dating trying to figure out if they're a match. And, um, and money is a good

thing for that. Not because money is important, but because money reveals a lot about your character. It reveals a lot about your dreams. Uh, it reveals a lot about your fears. Uh, it reveals a lot. And Jesus said, "Your treasure is where your heart is." And so how you handle money, the way you look at money, what you're trying to get from money, all say a lot about you. And so it's a great way to get to know someone.

>> Yeah. >> Uh in in a relationship like that is to,

you know, to study their money habits because as uh Dr. John Deloney says, behavior is a language.

>> Yeah. And if if the values are there, then you can survive it. You'll have a nerd and a free spirit, a spender and a saver, but if the values are there at the at at a foothold and foundation, you can survive the relationship. And so that's an important thing to look into is, hey, do I value living a debt-free life? If not, you're probably going to be broke for a long time. >> You know, that's a good point. I looking back on it, we didn't mean to do this.

We weren't sophisticated enough to do it when we were dating and getting married, but Sharon and I accidentally got married in with with having two extremely different families, but both

families put a heavy emphasis on hard work >> and work ethic. >> Common sense. >> Yeah. And so neither Sharon nor I have much use for somebody that won't work.

And so, but and you know, consequently, we team up on that a lot. Like Sheni says, "You need to go to work." and Dave does it. >> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 29. Debt Isn't The Problem - Your Mindset Is | The Ramsey Show (Best-Of for March 24, 2025)


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live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today I'm Dave

Ramsey the phone number is

88255 225 jeffon Indianapolis hi Jeff

welcome to the Ramsey Show hi Dave

pleasure to talk with you you too what's

up my wife and I are in our early 70s uh

my son lives about a mile from us he's

in his early 40s he relocated back here

to Indiana from California about 11

years ago from La where he was working in the music business and uh he was

going to take over my insurance agency a few years uh I retired about nine years

ago so he did take over um he got into

tax problems when he was in California because he was working for a music composer that actually treated him as an

employee but paid him as an independent contractor so he didn't know anything about paying taxes got behind with the

state and the IRS end up owing them uh

30 or 40 Grand I think we helped him

work out a structured repayment plan as

a condition to him coming back and getting into insurance and that's been

paid through wage garnishment

uh since then I discussed with him

before he came back the need to stay on top of his taxes and finances because he's never been good with money during

that period of time many times I'd ask

him if he was on this and he'd just blow up and wouldn't talk to me about it

three months ago he called us and told

us that he was in tax debt to the IRS

again and wanted his mom and I to uh

Bailey Mount basically using our share

of his of of our estate when we die uh

we thought he probably owe about 50 or

$60,000 turns out he hasn't filed any

state or federal tax returns for the past four years nor has he paid any

estimated taxes for 2023 we're meeting with our accountant

next Thursday to go over all this to get specific numbers but I'm guessing from

what I've seen it's going to be over $200,000 and about half of that is just

interest and penalties he also hasn't

paid any 941 withholding or state

unemployment tax has no business being

self-employed obviously so my question

is uh we have the assets to do that but

we would have to sell off property and

mutual funds we our in I don't know if

you need our income or what exactly what's your net worth net worths probably about 2.3

million and about 80 about uh roughly

half of that is in two pieces of real estate our residents here in Indiana and

another home we own in Florida I'm sorry

Jeff 80 including the including the real

estate uh the majority of our assets are

in Ira's rths and 403bs from where my my

wife taught we' got about 140,000 does

Market what's his income at the insurance company well he just resigned from that

position because after he took it over he ran it into the ground and couldn't make a go of it right now he's doing a

sales job and uh it seems to be going

pretty well but he's only been doing it a couple of months he's making about

75,000 a year plus

bonuses is he is he

married he's not married he has an

eight-year-old granddaughter that we absolutely love and uh spends a lot of

time with us uh he got he he uh was

going to get married but they did it

kind of reversed they got pregnant first

and then they they didn't get along so they didn't get married so both of them are here in town and both of them are have jobs and or own businesses and they

they get along fine we we all get along

the insurance agency was yours and you

sold it or gave it to him it was I

actually worked for a captive company so

they actually owned it and when I left

they paid me a percentage of my renewals

and that's what one of the cornerstones

of my retirement now I see so I didn't

have a say in where so you so you had a book of business but what did he come into he he didn't take over your book did he he did pretty much not all of it

because they gave some they split it was a big agency so they split it up among other agents they gave him about half of it okay and he ran your book into the

ground okay ran into the ground okay

Jeff does he have any other debt besides the tax debt that you know of do you know what that number looks like I don't

think he owes he he rents he doesn't own a home I don't think he owes anything else he doesn't have credit card debts the tax debts the only one I'm that I'm aware of I hear your

discuss for his behavior in your voice

and I also hear also hear a dad that

loves his son even though he's been

stupid you hear very well

um so I guess there's two options one is

you bail him out which doesn't sound

real appealing um if you don't bail him out

what happens he just has to work with the IRS and for a lot of

years yeah up yeah we got the thing is

Dave this this has happened so many times I can't count him but you've been

there to bail him out every time yeah

and we we had to take him out of high school because of his behavior we had to sent him out to a a survival camp in

Idaho then we put him in a private school in California and all that required a second mortgage on our house at the time uh we bailed him out of a

car loan that he didn't keep up with that I co-signed for uh it's just been

one thing after another he just is is

I'm I'm okay with no being the answer

yeah I if it were me do it here's here's

here's what what I'm going to here's what I'm going to suggest he got it he got a severance

package from the insurance company

that's going to pay out about 30 grand over the next five years about 6,000 a

year I told him that we would help him

out if he would sign that over to me to

pay back what we're going to advance him but I initially thought we could do the whole amount I don't think you should do any of that Jeff I really don't that's

the way I think that's I think I think

that he's grown and I think that he

makes a living it's he's not making he's

not poverty level there's nothing wrong with him I think he just needs to be a

man and do man

things I totally agree with you and I

think you're a great dad thank you there's one other one

other question to kind of take this out

a little further because I don't think my son realizes how bad of pos position

he's in if he pays this over the next 20

or 30 years he still may not have it

paid off when we die and that's all right we may yeah but we have we have

all of our all of our assets and our our

our real estate is in trust and my

daughter is the trustee and the executive and we Cur we currently put a

clause in our will that that allowed my

son to take our house here as part of

his settlement of the estate because he loves our home but I'm concerned that if

he doesn't have this paid off I don't

even know that I want to leave that

share of the estate to him because I

think the IRS could put a lean on that

they can and after after he becomes the

owner they can yeah yeah and I want to

make sure that I mean ultimately it was

for him but it's ultimately also to go to our granddaughter and I don't want to

eat up our share of that estate I think

you can I think these are two separate questions do you help him today they are

yeah do you help him today Jade and I

are both saying sadly I'm probably

wouldn't I probably wouldn't the way I'm

thinking and then uh do I change the D

change the will uh in a few years I

might you can change it now you can

change it later can you put something in there that says if the debts not paid off the home goes elsewhere until the

debt is paid off you could leave an interest for the granddaughter and bypass it bypass the the kid they can't

seem to find his way yeah that's so sad

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budget Jade washaw Ramsey personality is

my co-host today Graham is with us in

Knoxville hey Graham how are you I'm

doing well Dave how are you better than I deserve what's up uh me and my fiance are getting

married next June and we've been bouncing around the idea of buying a

home versus renting and I wanted to get

your thoughts on on that

um yeah okay uh I would not buy until

you're married for sure is that what

you're talking about okay yeah we're we

were thinking you know right around when

we're getting married next um June yeah

do you guys have any will you have debt

together we will have very little debt

she has a student loan for about

$7,000 we've saved up a pretty good BBT

going into our marriage and plan on combining our finances and following you

know a lot of your instruction on that so You' pay off the debt you'd have an emergency fund plus you'd have a down

payment yes okay then according

according to the baby steps and what we teach you would be in a position to buy a home let me let me tell you an idea to

think about okay and it's not it's not a

hard and fast um I wouldn't I wouldn't

call you stupid if you didn't do it or something like that but here's an idea to think about I think because I'm old

and I've seen a lot that one year after

you're married you will pick a different

house than one month after you're

married because I think you will learn a

lot about each other during that year

and I always joke and say it takes about

a year of marriage to know how close to your mother-in-law to buy

but that's the kind you know you get to know each other I would rather

relationally you spend the first year of

your marriage all of your energy on your

relationship not on hanging

curtains and picking wallpaper and for

God's sakes doing a renovation okay so I mean I I just I

love the idea of the house not being the

purchase the move not being in a

emotional relational drain instead you

all just get really comfortable with

each other and pile up a big old stack

of cash and the following spring buy a house that I like that um and it it

comes from the old Old Testament biblical story uh in 2 Samuel that the

Young Warriors in Israel in those days

were not allowed to go to battle in the

first year of marriage they had to stay home and take care of the family they

were not allowed to go to battle until they've been married at least a year and so that you know it's a bit symbolic or

metaphorical if you will uh and and it's

not something that you would be completely unwise and stupid and foolish and all that no it's none of that I just

I just think you're going to make a different decision a year later I absolutely agree with that and you've known each other you get to know each other a little bit better by then we've

been dating six years yeah you hav been living together it's different I mean you not been married together you might have been living together I don't know what you're doing but but it's different

I it's it's it's a different deal man

and um and it's not it's not that

dramatic really but it's just it's

subtle yeah it's um and and the thing I

also the the thing that that makes you

do is it makes you push back against the whole culture that's yelling at you buy a house buy a house buy a house oh

renting is throwing your money away buy a house buy a house buy a house oh renters are going to hell buy a house buy a house you know people are just go crazy they're like a beagle chasing a

rabbit man it's just you know it's okay

to have a little bit of patience home ownership is a great plan owning a home

and getting it paid off is a great

financial wealth building plan but

everybody doesn't have to buy a house right now just calm your butt down you know it's like and the longer you wait

the more you'll have more money to put down on it yeah so there's that and who

knows what the interest rates will do during that time might be fun it might

oh that's true or are you trying to make a call here Dave are you are you calling

NOP I'm just saying it be we'll be after

an election at that point and we'll see what's happening I didn't know if you were seeing your Shadow or

what that happens around here a lot cuz

uh yeah see things you get old things

Circle back around if you keep the suit coat long enough it comes back in style you know so all right here we go uh JT

is in Santa Fe New Mexico hi JT how are

you D Jade how's it going better than we

deserve what's up

so I'm about to be at a point where I'm

completely out of debt I've been working

on the last few years and about to hit

zero y way to

go my question is is it

a is it foolish to go back into that yes

start a business yes you just called the

ramsy show JT I

know you walked into the bear cave and

as the bear if it was hungry

you already know the answer JT

advice what's the

business uh my trade or work is a I'm a

401k consultant I do a risk of

[Music] compliance and I don't know it's kind of

start my own firm and it's a lot to try

to just bank roll why and why what do

you got to bank roll that's what I'm

wondering well I ought to cash flow you

day one well mean everything from you know

software agreements all sorts of stuff

wait a minute for what you don't you got

to have customers first well I mean I not so much worried

about that part of getting everything started yeah but you're going fast what are you getting

started what do you mean what I mean you

don't have any

money well I mean not enough to get this

thing going well what do you think it takes to get this going why why have you decid what you're describing to me you need a computer and some sweat okay and

a customer yeah or

six well I have thing you know for what

I'm doing I'd be go I'd be whale hunting

in a canoe and I need some stuff to be

able to do such things okay you are not ready to open a business and leave your job when you have absolutely no customers whale hunting in a canoe means

that you don't have a clue where your

customers are coming from you're not ready to open a business and has nothing do with alone you need some customers on

the hook well the first thing I'd do I

would take my current job and ask that they uh 1099 me and I would contract all

the work that I'm doing right now and then go look for my own bigger client so

I have an idea for cash flow okay so now

we're eating now why are we whale

hunting in a canoe well we got to go after big fish

to eat big right well uh no I mean

rabbits are more PL let's kill some of those neat I think you're missing the beauty of the type of business that you're starting which is this is a business you can start with little to no overhead and little to no cash yeah you

need enough to eat on but I don't want you floating in a canoe looking for a whale starving to death cuz you didn't have any plan or any background but if you got a plan for cash flow day one on the 1099 side then um and you think

they'll do that what's the probability of them doing that I think so because I'd be taking on

a lot of my uh you I'd get my own insurance and stuff like

that you know this is so vague and you

have not proformed this out the business

you're in demands that you do a better

job of Performing than you have done so

far this is a vague gen a group of vague

generalities and I'm going to go borrow money no you don't need to borrow money you need to organically cash flow this

little service oriented business and

you're going to be just fine uh and you need to put together a business plan and

process that has the probability of you being able ble to eat and cover the cost

of basic software services but there's

no big 500,000 or $50,000 or $20,000

outlay for you to come out of the ground

being a consultant yeah that's I think

Dave people think if you build it they'll come and I think it's the opposite you've got to go get them and

then build it while like you've got to build it while they're coming if you build it they will come in the movie world is called the Field of Dreams and

the business world is called a field of

nightmares so no yeah you don't you

don't want to do that you need to have you need to have the some you know I

tell our guys all the time hey elephant hunting is great but they're a lot more

rare than rabbits you eat really good on

rabbits there's lots of rabbits go get

the rabbits and occasionally you stumble into an elephant then that's extra but

let let's go get the rabbits let's get a business model that turns cash here

stack some cash you're fine JT do not

borrow into the vagueness that you are

describing us you're really going to make a mess this is the Ramsey show what

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Ramy Jade washaw Ramsey personality is

my co-host today today's question of the

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today's question comes from Patty in Illinois my husband and I purchased a

very modest home for his parents due to

the rising cost of rent in our area my

father-in-law is disabled my mother-in-law Works full-time at a very modest job and they pay us a small

amount of rent each month it's been 5

years now and the home has required a lot of repair such as water intrusion of mold uh we've

been able to cash flow the problems but it has cost over 15,000 not to mention

our sanity it has also changed our

relationship because they frequently contact us for issues or requests in

spite of many conversations about what is quote nice to have versus what is

quote needed uh we're trying to honor

our word but it has been very taxing

emotionally and financially we're in baby step six and we need to plan for our own retirement I keep telling myself

to suck it up but we are losing tons of

money with no end in sight I've listened to the show long enough to know we probably shouldn't have done this but at the time it felt like the right thing to do what would you do if you were in our

shoes well first off I wish I had more

information Dave I want to know how old these parents are I want to know I want

to know more I want to know the value of the house because I'm thinking if you bought a house in 2019 like the value's

probably gone up a good deal mhm so

they're she they might not be losing

money in the way that she thinks now the

actual idea of doing this I think was a

really bad idea um I think there was

just a lack of foresight here and I don't know what the promise was did they

say hey we're doing this house you're going to live here and you know until you die and we're covering it I don't

know what the promise was but I think

that they may have you know brought

promised more than what they could deliver on and I think that's probably what she's feeling some type of way about so she's got a lot of drama in her

words uh-huh she does and it's her

in-laws uhhuh I I the piece of

information I would like is I'd like to talk to her husband and see if he feels the same way uhhuh and if it was everybody's idea it's bothering him to the same degree or if this is in-law

drama that you are now molding or uh

laying over on this house yes

uhhuh I think it's a little bit of both

she does use the word we a lot which

makes me think that there is some Unity

oh I think I don't think it was a hidden thing uh but I think he went into it and

went bought mom and dad a house and Dad's disabled mom got a you know not

not much of a job and they pay us what they can pay us and we fix the stuff the breaks and and she's going oh God I'm

dying yeah you know it's like um so I

don't I you know

$115,000 is not uh we are losing tons of

money over five years it's nothing if

you own a house you're going to spend more than $155,000 over 5 years on a

house mhm and they're getting some rent which is good and it's going up in value

uhhuh going up in value mom and dad are going to pass someday and you're going to have a nice asset that's gone up in

value that you can sell and probably pay off your house and more if you haven't already so I I think I would first thing

I would want is get to the bottom and say what is where is all this resentment

really coming from um is it really coming from the

house I kind of don't think it is I

don't think so I now there is part of it

where they may have bitten off more than

they realized they were going to be chewing do you know what I'm saying like

in in theory it sounded good and then when you start walking it out you're like oh my goodness but to your point if

she's riding into to our show there's

something that they're not talking about yeah if your mother-in-law is calling you and asking you to fix something at a

house that you gave to her at a deal M

um and you already had you know

mother-in-law itis then that would just

make it worse right I mean that's it's

like well you know the difference in what is needed and what's nice to have yeah but you know it's a modest home they're modest people she makes a modest income there wasn't anything in here lavish there's also though Dave I didn't

hear a Jacuzzi being installed I think

to to to quote myself I think there's also a vocab rehab that needs to happen

because here she's saying my husband and I purchased a very modest home for his

parents they don't own the home they're

renters you guys bought a house for yourself it's your ass it's your home

and I think if you start viewing it as an asset that we have it's going to

change your thought a rental I have a rental house and it it a water leak and

I had to fix them all that's right as opposed to it's guess what I've had to do that a bunch of times right so I had

zero drama about it that's right because

I just fixed it and it's going up in value tree fell on the back porch I just

fixed it it's just you know it's just you own a house and crap happens right I

mean it's like um it the other question

that I don't I'm with you I I don't think we have enough information because it's very interesting question it is and

I'm imping a lot on you Patty I apologize for that but um trying to

figure out what's really happening here and therefore for to what to do with this because also their age might play

into it if she if if they're 87 suck it

up if they're

57 kick them

out you know sell it and give them the

money yeah that it brings whatever it

brings give them the money from it um

because you didn't you didn't buy it for money you bought it to help them and you

know if you want to give them the whatever proceeds are cuz you're going to have made some money to your point from 2019 so uh yeah that's that's

that's part of it and um yeah yeah and

and I think then I would want to just

really ask I don't know um well walk

that out what would you so let's say let's say she's listening she goes yeah you know what they are in their 50s they need to get out of this house they've been paying us a small amount of rent what would you suggest in that situation to fairly I I mean I don't care if you give them the money really I mean you sell the house and whatever whatever I I don't know if there's a mortgage here or not

but pay off all the expenses and then

whatever money you've made on the house

give it to them I don't care um oh I'll

tell you the other piece I don't know right here is I don't know Patty's income yeah that's right Patty makes $300,000 a year stop whining and deal

with it that's another good point if Patty makes $55,000 a year then you were

you did something you couldn't afford to do here that's true and that's where

some of this drama is coming from is the

pinch mhh um because it's like oh it's

we're we're but we're uh it's been very

taxing emotionally and financially yeah

okay I don't understand it's um 15 grand

is not taxing emotion I mean it's not

but so uh that that's yeah it's a lot of

details maybe call in sometime Patty

yeah yeah we we'd do that so you can

contact them back off the email if you want to James we' take the call cuz I I

don't know what to do but if yeah I think we could give a couple of scenarios if then okay kind of flowchart

it if they're super old and you make a

lot of money then this drama is in your

head calm down and suck it up if they're

super young and you don't make a lot of money maybe you need to move them out and sell the house I think those are the

two variables that that could be there I

I don't hear a lot of mother-in-law drama but I just think it's I it does it

did it was curious to me how much drama

she had and I wondered if her husband would feel exactly the same way I bet he doesn't now if they're only paying uh

you know the mortgage is 2,000 and she

said they're paying a small amount of rent so they're paying a thousand the

proceeds I'd split okay I don't care um the thing is

I don't you're not selling it because you

need money that's true she did not bring

that up she you're right she did not selling it to get rid of an un an

emotionally and financially draining situation to quote her that's true but she just she did say we're in baby step six and need to plan for our own retirement so that made me think they might want some money could be and it could just be that the drama

I'm tired of giving them anything and

I'd rather put it in my account in LW

situations they get they get salty

really quick not going there yeah not not going to do that you're right to

that you started the whole thing right when you said you shouldn't have done it foresight you got to you have to play these things out in your mind years and

years to see where it land and all of

the different variations of the plan

when you're trying to help your parents you're trying to help your grown kids

you do not enter into a process that

does not bring them to sustainability on

their own and so you get them up where

they're standing on their own feet and you let them go so whatever you're doing

create a situation that gets them up on their own feet instead of a continuous

drain and so that's so you people pay in

your 28-year-old's private schools for their

kids that's it's not sustainable you

shouldn't have entered into that this is

the Ramsey Show hey guys what's up it's

Jade warshaw and look if there's anybody

who knows about student loan debt it's

me my husband and I had

$280,000 of it but we were able to dig

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should only refinance if it makes sense

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Ramsey this is the Ramsey Show I'm

George camell joined by Dr John deloney

this hour open phones atle 882 25

5225 while you're listening or watching

the show do us a quick favor hit the Subscribe button hit the follow button

leave a review text a link to a friend

let them know about the show or your favorite clip a highlight anything that can get the word out because you guys truly are the best marketing tool we

have to keep spreading hope in a world

filled with a lot of noise and distractions and hopelessness and so we

try to displace all of that with shows like this and we appreciate all of your help getting the word out Lester is up

next in Dallas Texas how can we help you

Lester hi there uh I was calling to see

about some advice on how to talk with my

wife about saving more than spending my

wife's a spender I'm a saver and we're

aligned on our goals but she just spends

a lot of things here and there and so

just some advice on that was there like a spit Shake on hey here's how much we're going to spend here's what the budget says stick to

it yeah we we've budgeted out a lot of

different things we even have it split to where we have our own fun money where it's like a hundred bucks a month that we can spend it on whatever we'd like

but um there's a lot of gifts and

celebrations and things like that that my wife wants to make sure we're showing love to our friends and family um and

then just things add up very quickly um

and then things are

gone is this a communication challenge

or is your wife being spiteful cuz

there's two different ways to approach this this I I don't think it's I don't think

it's either um my my wife and I

communicate very very well okay um and

frequently about it but and I don't think she's being very spiteful at at all she she agrees that um we need to be

saving and we want the we want the

things we want where a house and being

able to retire as both of our families

um aren't in that basket at all and don't have a retirement even in their 50s and 60s um and we don't want to do

that but she just kind of forgets about

the things and it doesn't think about the $20 here or $20 there or 100 bucks

here and it just kind of adds up and so

if there's anything that we can do

to try try something different because

we've tried like different cards that only have a certain amount of money on it each month to help limit that but

obviously I don't want her stranded so she has access to a card that um is has

access to the main main fund for gas and

all that kind of stuff but are you guys only using debit cards or are there some credit cards still being used no no no

um we only have debit cards um I I hate

credit I always have um but yeah we only

use debit cards Mo most I I don't mean

to overly gender this but this is just the way it plays out in the real world

most of the time when I talk to men in your situation they try to solve this

with a plan a

strategy a new card a new spreadsheet a

new commitment

ceremony and the only way I've ever seen

somebody be successful is if they are honest with

their spouse about the story behind the

story the story behind the

strategy and that would be you sitting

down and saying I need to be uh open with you can

I tell you something that's scaring me to death and her say oh sure honey what's

going on and you say I'm scared about

not having any money and I'm feeling

like um I'm not communicating this well

because every month there's another $250

in gifts and stuff like that and $20

increments and I don't feel like I'm I'm

I'm I'm I'm being fully honest here at

the table and you notice I did two things here number one I was honest I told you told her how you felt you didn't throw a strategy at her and

number two you used the word I not you

keep over spinning and you keep doing because when she does that man she's going to go back to childhood she's going to go to war yeah my guess is she's going to have

to decide I would rather feel the

short-term discomfort of not having a

gift for every single thing that pops up

because I never could buy gifts for anybody or I never got any gifts for anybody and now I can so I feel like I have to she's going to have to give up that short-term pleasure for the long-term safety of me and my husband

don't have to worry about not having anything to eat and that's hard and I haven't seen a

way to get there without emotion without without a story without

you saying this is how I feel yeah and if she looks at you and says I

don't care how you feel I'm buying gifts for this thing well now y'all got a deeper issue y'all got to deal

with yeah can you do

that yeah most

definitely the other side of this ler

when it comes to the Tactical is that

you should be sitting down with her before the month begins going hey what's happening this month a birthday should not be a surprise we know when the birthdays are happening Christmas happens on December 25th every year I check my calendar still happening

and so you kind of know what's coming up and you adjust the budget accordingly so if we need to add a gift line item in

the budget let's do that if we need to add a miscellaneous sort of little catchall of 50 bucks or 100 bucks let's

do that so it doesn't derail our plans well that's often really important

because that's when the $20 plus $20

plus $50 turns into 310 bucks and she

goes oh gosh I don't do that yeah and

the other thing is we check the budget before we make the purchase so if we go to the gift we go oh gosh I wish we're

going to have to do a handmade gift let's make a little basket let's get some roses from the garden let's get cre

basket once John still has it he loves

it it was a great gift so Lester that's where you we come up with a solution together and have the conversation but there is a part of this that's that's on her as far as accountability going you need to check the budget before you make the purchase that's how I do it that's how you do it we can't just hope that we

lined up with the budget perfectly we use that as our guiding kind of North Star and I think when you do that you

start to add in these line items it starts to be less and less of a surprise

you get to kind of align it a little more and on top of that what is your

next goal what is the thing you guys both agree to is the next thing that we're saving up for well it's not necessarily saving up

for it's like being able to pay off our debts so you're in baby step two correct

so even more in baby step 2 there's even

more intention intentional sacrifice and intensity here where it's going we can't afford buy people gifts we got to put our own mask on first we're broke and

think about how many gifts we can buy people once we're debt-free with an emergency fund we preparing for our future then we can look up for opportunities to give and be

generous and so I think that's part of

it is you need to have a plan together

going we're going to pay off $700 a

month of debt and here's how we're going to do it versus we really need to save

more really got to get rid of this debt we need to get more specific so we can

actually hit the target Lester have you tried any of these things weth throwing at you does it all sound crazy no no no no no yeah and these are

conversations we've had but I agree I haven't been very specific with it my

wife and I are blessed to be in the positions that we're in I mean I'm making more money than I ever thought I would before and it it's not been specific of

hey we're going to spend x amount of dollars on our debt every single month because we have to it's just been we

want to spend more on our debts um and

realistically we don't have a lot of debt um even student loans and medical

debt and things like that included we don't have a lot and So within a year we

could easily have 80% of it paid off um

dude put that plan in front of her put

that plan in front of her and yall talk

through it and then more importantly than that plan paint a picture for her of how

you're going to be able to breathe in your own home

how you and her are going to have something neat of y'all have ever had which is economic

security let her just absorb that and

feel her husband radiating this thing

that you've probably never radiated before which is just

peace man it makes there's not a lot of

gifts I'm gonna buy in exchange for my wife's peace for my peace you see what I'm saying yeah and then by the way once

you get that pieace once you like George said you don't owe anybody money you can buy gifts for everybody

mhm you could be kind of over the top and Reckless with who you buy gifts for because you don't owe anybody money M so this little plan this one

year thing we're after this is just part of reverse engineering the picture you painted her so instead of we got to get on a budget you got to spend less it becomes hey remember that's what we're aiming for this is a little blip on that

timeline of intentionality and sacrifice

are you with me yeah and I hope that

helps we're going to gift you every dollar premium Lester I what are you using right now for a budget when you guys sit down together um pen and paper um and then I

use an Excel sheet and that's kind of it

you if you show a spender in Excel sheet

they implode inside they scientific they

just die so we're going to gift you every dollar premium it's much easier to look at easier to use you both log in you both have accountability so while she's out she can actually check the bud

budget versus Lester's spreadsheet at home so hope that helps Lester we're wishing you the best as you attack this debt that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books thank you to Dr John deloney all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat and you America will be back before you know

[Music] it live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Jade washaw Ramsey

personality is my co-host today thank

you for joining us America we're glad

you're here open phones at 8825

5225 that's

8825 5225 Travis starts us off this hour in

Toledo hi Travis welcome to the Ramsey

show all thank you for taking my call

sure what's up uh I have a negative balance every

month and I'm kind of trying to figure out how to how to get positive again um

starting off kind of a little rough every single month after bills and everything so your your bank account is

negative every month like you're

overdrawn yep I'm overdrawn I actually

almost on a weekly basis um you know I it's funny that you

talk about this I literally just got off a webinar about this this very thing and

at the end of the day it's probably boiling down to budgeting issues do you

have a budget um I've been working on trying to

do one I recently got the every dollar

app uh premium uh because it was able to

track my stuff better but I'm I'm

struggling like weekly with groceries

it's it's just with a family of five

it's hard to keep it under a certain amount okay so I want you to not try to

do the budget I want you to actually do it I want you to go in there put the numbers in there that's step one you and

your wife yeah have you start have you actually filled out a budget for the

month uh no no I have not I haven't been

able to figure it out yeah okay so

that's step one matter of fact um I want

you to go to everydollar.com budgeting when this call is over and I want you to sign up for the next webinar because if

the issue is I've got it is it you know

is it I'm not I don't have time to do it

or I'm not prioritizing the time to do

it I really want you to prioritize this

the time sit down with your wife tonight start looking at it what's your take-home pay uh take-home is about 3600

a month how much is your

rent uh the mortgage is 560 a month

what's your car payment uh car payment

is a little high it's 441 a

month okay and five

kids uh three kids wife that is unable

to work due to yes five people three kid

wife that is unable to work due to medical issues what kind of medical

issues uh it's actually like a

hereditary degenerative uh disease where

it's actually just getting worse as time goes on too

so okay how old are your

kiddos uh I got triplets four and a half

years old wow okay so consumer debts kind of got

me you know how much you

have um not including the card it's

about 26,000 okay here's the thing we

got to start at the other end groceries

don't catch the slack groceries are the

thing so we're going to start with this

3600 at the top of the page you follow

me yes minus the important things first

the most important thing in your entire budget is food you have the money to buy food you

may not have the money to do some other stuff but you have the money to buy food period end of story okay so 3600 minus

food what are y'all spending on food uh I try to keep it around 180

bucks a week but I mean it's usually 180

bucks to 220 how often do you eat out

how often do you eat out um

maybe once a week but it's just me for lunch when I'm unable to pack I am going to a trade school at night it's either

lunch or dinner I go three nights a week

um okay all right so so if we take um

800 bucks 700 bucks for your budget for

food right for a month for a month that

leaves us $2,900 so you can buy food food's first

you got me yes I don't care if you pay

anybody else till you feed your family

you follow me all right second thing is

we pay $550 for shelter

done right yep and then we pay the light

bill and the water bill so we're warm

we're fed and we're

dry okay this is survival first you

following me yes uh we may not keep this

stupid car cuz it's freaking out of control if we can't come up with a way to get it paid off soon it's got to go

but for now we're going to pay the car payment too food shelter clothing

transportation and utilities are basic

necessities of life we call those the

four walls you do the four walls before you do anything else everyone else and

let me tell you who's at the bottom of the freaking list student loan how big's

a student loan I don't have one than you

know who's right at the bottom next to them stupid credit card companies cuz

you know what they can do if you don't pay them nothing except destroy your credit and you eventually 8 years from

now but we're going to take care of them before we get there okay they're at the

bottom of the page so let me just tell you your emotional state and your sense

of control over your destiny changes

when your family is fed the lights and

water are paid and the mortgage is paid

and you you are in a different place

emotionally and spiritually the rest of it's just a stupid game I'm behind

on okay but right now it feels like life

or death cuz you've got grocery as the last thing not the first

thing yes by the time I pay groceries

I'm overdraft no by the time you pay

MasterCard Oh wait we're not going to go into overdrift so we're not paying MasterCard screw them okay for this

month and then we've got to adjust our income now you got to get your income up dude what are you gonna do to get your income up it it it goes up progressively

every uh every six months as long as I

keep up my uh my apprenticeship and everything so you got you got six months

a hell what are we going to do in the short term to get it up um you're going toade school three

nights a week what are we doing on those other nights cuz you're about to do some more work dude your family's H homework

and doing whatever I can yeah around the

house hous work and everything yeah you're going to probably not be doing as much of that the laundry May pile up a

little bit because you got to go make some money cuz 3600 bucks is tough

M so the way you the way you get this

straight Side Up is you First Take care

of necessities and then two you get over the top of it and we're going to cut expenses and add income and that creates

margin and that will get you under

control Travis so you you do have a very

tight tight tough

situation so something's got to go out

of the expense lines and something's got

to come up quickly in the income side

because you know you know it's not easy you got a really nice low house payment

it's the best thing in this whole story right now

so you got you got a fixable situation

but the faster you get the income up and the out go down the faster the Pain's going to leave okay does that make sense

to you yeah absolutely I was just

nervous about missing credit card payments andu I want to give you permission to feed your children before you pay MasterCard yeah I understand

okay when you get that straight in your head all of a sudden it changes everything because if everybody's fed and the lights are done and the water's

paid and and the house payments paid I

mean we live to fight another day but if

we pay MasterCard and then we don't have enough money to feed the triplets dad

gum that's not fun been there done that

that terrorizes your butt doesn't it yes it does been there done that every

dollar.com budgeting signup for one of

Jade's webinar she'll walk you through what we just did this is the ramsy show

statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all I don't understand

this John why don't people want to take care of their family they think they're going to die or something well I used to be one of those guys I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said hey the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I

immediately went and got term life insurance that's a gut punch and oh

you're telling me and for for decades Dave I've sat across people who've lost a spouse they've lost somebody important

to them and they don't know what to do

next me too I mean you're going to have a crisis here and you know you got two

options while you're sitting and talking to a young WI she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's

concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow that's exactly these are the two options take care of your dadgum family man term life insurance can replace income pay off Debs cover funeral expenses so your family can

actually have the opportunity to just be

sad yeah to just miss you that's exactly

what it's supposed to be it's saying I

love you to your family term life insurance Jeff Xander and the team at

Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable I've used them personally for

25 years they're the only people I trust

go to zander.com or call 800

35642 82 Jade washaw Ramsey personality

is my co-host today open phones atle

8825

5225 you jump in we'll talk about your

life and your money Jared is with us in

cordelan Idaho hi Jared welcome to the

Ramsey Show hi guys hey I have a question

regarding cost of

living raises compared to

inflation I personally enjoy giving my

customers the cheapest service available

yet to keep up with inflation we have to

give raises how do those two things mesh

together and is there anything we can do

to battle the inflation as business

owner no not you know your job is not

the macro economy your job is to run

your business and that means take care

of your family and the families that you

pay um that's your job um the

macroeconomy discussion is that um when

things go up when the cost of a loaf of

bread the cost of a service the cost of

a uh a pack of hot dogs whatever it is you want to call a gallon of gas when when

the cost of that goes up one of the

reasons the cost of the item has gone up

to the consumer when you raise your prices in business is because their cost

of goods has gone up if their cost of goods you know for instance if I make a

uh if we print a book uh a Total Money

Makeover a baby steps Millionaire's book

well the cost of paper has gone up 30%

in the last 24 months

all right and so that's going to be built into my pricing on the next book

that we put out agreed if the uh if the cost of that

book includes a a dock worker to do the

shipping and a truck driver to deliver

it and both of those people get paid

more by me to bring me that book then

now the cost of that book has gone up again the paper cost went up and the

labor cost associated with delivering

that went up and so anytime you pay

people more inside your business you

have to absorb that in price

changes and so price increases are

always not always but they they they're

they have you have to do a price increase to stay open otherwise you're not profitable to cover your actual cost

of goods and cost of

Labor you don't have any margin you're out of business and when the cost of Labor goes up due to cost of living raises or any other raises

uh just a shortage of uh workers uh an

example of that is um you know we told

when America got fouchi we told all of

the service industry all the waiters and

the people that make your beds at the

hotel and uh the people in the service

world that they weren't

essential and we sent them home told

them they couldn't work if you're a

restaurant worker you're not allowed to work and in some places we did did that

for a month other places we did it for a

year when you tell people they're not

essential and then you want them to come

back they remember how you pissed on

them last time and so guess what you want to hire

somebody in the service world today

preco you might have done that for $10

now you might be looking at

$25 because there's a shortage of

workers in those Industries still to

this day yeah postco

and so uh you know the economic

implications of covid are still shaking

out you it created a labor disruption

and a labor price

change uh and we've seen it in other

areas of Labor as well our cost of what

we pay someone to work here at Ramsey

has changed in some of the areas pretty dramatically and some of the we do comp

studies to see where they're charging so yeah then that means that if I'm going

to uh be profitable I have to raise a

price somewhere and so that person that

buys that pays more and that's called

inflation yeah you don't and you don't

have to feel guilty about it it's just part of part of it but I mean what what

what he's pointing out and I think it's good for people to hear out there is when you're walking around with a little picket in your hand and you're saying I

demand

$15 I demand $22 where I was making 10

to work at McDonald's

then the cost of McDonald's goes up mhm

to cover your idea of you being worth

more then you don't get to about

paying more for stuff because you caused

it that's what I'm talking that's what he's talking about and so you can't go I

don't like the fact that fast food prices all went up and yet you're

walking around demanding that the cost of labor at a fast food place go almost

freaking double yeah and then and then

can't F you know of course you

know it's conect costs more you know I

mean that's why that's how that's how it works because these businesses are not evil and greedy but they also are not

not for profit that's right they have to

make a profit to stay open and oh by the

way even nonprofits are

profitable a nonprofit that isn't

profitable closes out of business it's

out of business it's gone nonprofit is

not an not an actual dollar amount of

they didn't make more than they spent

it's just an accounting entry and an IRS

designation but they actually you know

your church has to take in more than it

puts out otherwise it

closes so nonprofits are profitable

hello and you know and so if the cost of

electricity at your church goes up then

there you go I mean you're going to you're going to if the cost of Staffing

at your church goes up because you're competing in the marketplace for that

cre creative position at the church that

music director at the church you're you're competing with the marketplace

then that you know it costs more to operate that organization and some organizations haven't survived that that's right so yeah inflation includes

cost of Labor and when you've had a

labor disrup disruption like the

quarantines created uh we haven't seen

we've seen most of the end of it but we haven't seen the complete end of it yet

um it will calm down and smooth out eventually but even a little 3% 5% cost

living raise then gets built into the

thing and you can't really in business I

can't stand against that and go I just

refuse to raise my prices well you're going to refuse to stay in business you

know that's just kind of dumb so so the

next book you buy from us get ready the

price is going to be more CU hello you

know those $10 sales we run they're be

1250 they're about done I'm just

saying we're about done with a $10 sale

cuz it $10 Sal's about backwards it's

about upside down now and I'm about done with it so uh that was helpful for a

while but been doing them for been doing them for 10 years and you know cost cost

of cost of paper kick kicked my butt and

so I'm GNA pass on the butt kicking all right that's how this works that's how that's how it works y'all I mean it's just this is how it is so if you think

it's otherwise then you're being naive

so but it's interesting to me that we

teach so little Civics and so little

economics today that people can't make a

basic connection connected I demand to

be paid more but then on the other hand

I'm going to about inflation yeah

no I don't think you freaking caused it

that you're the essence of it I mean you

know I can't believe the cost of bread

well it cost about twice the labor to

put the bread on the Shelf now that's right that it did so look I mean almost

double it's crazy and you can't even get the help can't get people show up CU

they're sitting at home in the mother's basement playing Nintendo it's nuts so

now we don't have that problem Ramsey cuz we're not dealing with that level of labor we're dealing with a high class you know generally here so we got a whole different whole different set of

uh uh things that that we deal with that

are wonderful by and large but yeah it's a it's a great discussion Jared and you

know the problem was you pulled the string on the monkey so you got you got the Soap Box you got the Soap Box

response because I can go on up for days about this but it is interesting how

ignorant yeah you know some of this

wealthy quality stuff is and all this

stuff they just they're ignorant of the connection the unintended consequences of their little shallow ideas yeah

absolutely and where they're going so I'm glad that he pulled the string yeah

well you just ever so often I have to get out of my system

yeah uh we will look back in time and

say fouchy wow just

wow this is the Ramsey show what does

the future hold for business ask nine

experts and you'll get 10 different answers econom IC growth or a recession

business taxes will go up or down AI

will help us work or it will replace us

all but there's no such thing as a

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next download the cfo's guide to Ai and

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Ramsey Jade washaw Ramsey personality is

my co-host today open phones at

88255 225 Sam is in Daytona Beach Hi Sam

welcome to the Ramsey Show

hi Dave hi Jade thanks so much for taking my call today I appreciate it sure what's

up okay so I've got um it's a

complicated situation but I'm going to try and simplify it as easy as best as

possible for you guys so I can just honor your time so basically I have um

I'm completely debt free I've never had any debt I'm very thankful to you for

that when I was 18 years old I took FPU

before I went to college wow and

actually graduated fully debt free

um and so it was the best decision I ever made so never known any debt I have

a fully funded emergency fund but about

a year ago I was given um a sum of money

from a family member um now the sum of

money that it was that I was given it

was kind of given with the pretext of

the reason why they had this money was for a wedding or maybe to invest into to

give me to give for like my first property that I would own but since kind of none of those things have happened they decided I'm just going to give it to you now um and I want you to do

something with it so in regards to like

investing or etc etc how much money is

it my problem is so it was

$20,000 okay cool that's

awesome yeah yeah so um so I guess my

next issue was more um I kind of don't

know what to do in the sense of I don't

know much in regards to investment

um and since it was kind of sprung on me

uh of especially I think with the attachment of going it was going to be for maybe a wedding or maybe a house deposit but that kind of hasn't happened

so do you not own a home guess I'm a bit

are you renting I don't no you're

renting um are you opposed to saving

this I mean you said that initially it

was maybe for a wedding maybe for a down payment why wouldn't you set it aside

and add to it as a Down

payment well I guess that's I guess

that's part of my question of just going is that the best thing to do

um because I actually have no problem

with it I think what I've been struggling with is because from this

family member it was kind of given the

the I'm giving you this money because I want you to do something with it in regards to investing it rather than it just sitting in my bank account doing nothing Well it wouldn't be doing nothing I mean you you can put it in a

mutual fund and add to that mutual fund and make that down payment fund uh two

years from now three years from

now yeah yeah okay um just go to ramseys

solutions.com just go to ramsy

solutions.com and click on

smartvestor and you'll find a group of

smart Vestor Pros in the Daytona Beach

area you can choose from among them

which one you would like to work with

yeah and you want someone with the heart of a teacher because it sounds like you're new to investing and they'll sit

down and teach you about about investing

only after you have learned mhm and feel

competent and comfortable that's right

do you invest and don't ever invest in

something you don't understand but if I

woke up in your shoes I and if I had given you that gift with that guideline

I would be happy with you using some

basic mutual funds to let that be parked

in until and add some to it as you go

along for a future down payment yeah

plan on having it in there five years or

so that's what I'd say so it has some

time to go in the right direction yeah you should be able to do great with it that should be excellent easy Jill Is With Us

in Phoenix uh if I pushed the right

button Jill's there hi Jill's with us in Phoenix hi Jill how are you I'm well thank you so much thanks

for taking my call sure what

up so I'm calling uh I've listened to

the show off and on for years but I got

really serious about six months ago and

um I so I I'm going to admit if Out

start that I know I've messed up but um I have about $100,000 of debt

with my ex-husband I'm currently married

um my current husband and I make good money um because this debt felt so

overwhelming I kind of shoved it to the

side we paid off all of our other debt

um and I started saving for a house I

went to basically I skipped partial step

two and went to step three and we

started saving we paid so all your you

you and your current husband paid off all your other prear your debts from the

other marriage except this debt and what

is this debt how big is

it it's

$100,000 and the IRS oh okay and how did

you end up $100,000 in debt to the

IRS so uh my former husband owned a

company um tax issues got complicated um

life was really overwhelming he didn't

want to deal with it I didn't know how to deal with it so we just didn't file seven years of taxes yikes yeah so when we got divorced

wait a minute wait minute did you have an income during that time you personally I did I did and you didn't

file taxes on that

income um so did you file taxes on your

income during the seven years no nope

okay so his business was complicated you

didn't file on it and how did the100

come about who decided what that

was so when we were getting divorced we

actually hired a CPA which is what we should have done in the first place and

they went through filed all of our taxes

and let us know you know what we owed as

well as uh initially interest and

penalties and of course why in the world

did you file filing jointly while you're

going through a divorce why didn't you file separately you would have only been responsible for the taxes on your income

the judge required it

unfortunately I

know I don't believe

you I think your attorney mailed it in

judges that's not that's not logical the

judge required you file your freaking

taxes I don't I don't argue that but

that he didn't file you he didn't require you you were as liable that

you're had to pay taxes on his business

that he didn't file on

ah so because the the judge basically

saidwell you benefited from the income while you were married so you are both jointly and severally liable and you have to file together it was very very

frustrating so the ex I have a question

about your ex-husband is he going to if

you both said all right it's $100,000 I pay 50 you pay 50 is he going to is he

going to do it no it's joint in serval

she's liel for all of it until it's all

paid through the divorce

um he is obligated to pay 60% and I'm

obligated to pay 40 and that's kind of part of the question is should try to

pay the 40,000 he's not no he's not the

divorce decree says that but the IRS says you owe 100 correct the IRS will not acknowledge

that exactly they don't have to if I pay

the hundred and I can take him back to

court and sue him for that portion yeah

good luck with that or I

know and honestly

ly I it wasn't until I called a smart

investor Pro because I started saving for a house and I had my emergency fund

I was savings for a house and um your

smart investor Pro was like no no girl you got to go back to step two you have to deal with this yes you got to deal with it right so how much money do you have laying around so I have

$55,000 um part of that was money that I

got from uh my son passing away and part

of that is money we saved gosh okay I

got to tell you there's a couple courses you can go through here one course you

can go through is you can pay the 100,000 and hope you get his 40 back out

of him and I wouldn't give you much hope for that and you move on with your life

that's a fairly easy course to take

that's the clean course that's the easy one okay here's the one I would do though and it's the hard one okay um I

would hire another CPA or rather a tax

attorney and I would go and uh go back

before the probate courts where the

where the divorce was done and challenge that judge's ruling and refile under the

innocent spouse provision cuz I don't

think you're liable for his taxes and

you're innocent of his is the thing ask

your C ask your tax attorney about the innocent spouse provision this is where a spouse just signs off on everything

and the other spouse is running the business and then and they just sign off

on it then they don't get half the thing they get out they get out Scot free and

you'd be liable for your income

the taxes on your income during that seven years but not on the business's

income and I'm challenging that judge's

ruling if I'm you it's going to cost you

10 grand to do this I was going to say how much would you spend to do that yeah and but I would do it this is the Ramsey show this show is sponsored by better help all right so I was born and raised

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Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today hey guys if you didn't

know I love talking to you about money

we also help small businesses about

10,000 of them Across America and uh we

have a podcast called on trade leadership it was actually the very first podcast we ever did at Ramsey and

it was run by uh other Ramsey personalities and interview style and stuff over the years I took it over

about two years ago and started taking calls from small business people about

leadership and small business questions it's called entree leadership podcast it's very popular in that world and if

you want to be part of that and you run

a small business you got a question about it you can call and leave us a voicemail there at 844 944 1070 844

94410 70 or you can go to Entre

leadership.com askk leave your question our team will

get you set up to be a caller on there

also a reminder that this is the last um

portion of the show that is broadcast

over YouTube and podcast there's another

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Ramsey Network app and on some talk

radio stations around America and so if

you want the Ramsey Network app uh is completely free so you can finish this

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both um and uh just jump over the Ramsey

Network app it's completely free there's all kinds of stuff you can do there like search calls by subject find out what we

got to say about any certain thing type it in you can type in a email and send it to us we'll answer it here on the air we do a lot of stuff that's really fun over on the Ramsey Network app so be sure you check all that out Ryan is with

us in Hartford Connecticut hey Ryan

welcome to the Ramsey Show hey how are you guys sure what's

up hey so I have a bit of a problem I

never thought this was GNA happen so uh

in 2018 my father passed away and he

left me and my brother a 401k plan uh

fast forward 5 years uh I got a check in

the mail this morning uh for about

245,000 the original account balance was

about 300,000 and what's happening is they

gave me the check and I have to pay the

IRS that 55,000 difference from the

300,000 to 245 I called them and asked

them if they could roll it over and they said once they issued the check there's

nothing that can be done who told them to issue the check not me apparently uh the the

company my father was work

for I didn't either didn't read I'm

sorry I didn't I didn't hear you you cut out apparently the company your father worked for what yeah they um they have a

five years plan I guess for the death

benefit that if it's not rolled over into something else within five years they must close the account and just issue a checkout it it's super confusing

the way they explained it to me I was on the phone with them for an hour and a half this morning with my

401k uh company and they pretty much

said once we issue the check there's nothing that can be done there was no work around yeah there is they had they had until just that's what I'm saying

yeah you I'm sure you don't have an extra 55 grand laying around no so the way it worked is my

account balance was 300,000 it started

at like 2115 and over the years I got it

up to 300 they issued me a check for 245

they already took the money out and sent it to the IRS and issued me the difference yeah have to withhold 20%

that's the rule if you if you take a

withdrawal but this is an involuntary withdrawal without no without any contact to you or anything which is

completely at a minimum unprofessional

what caused you to wait what caused you

to wait the five years as opposed to Rolling it over because the 401K plan my father was

invested in had really good options like

I built up all of those same options

exist in the open market yeah and I I have my own personal

investment accounts and do it with that as well the you know if you know Don't

Rock the Boat if the boat shouldn't be rocked so the way I figured is the 401K

plan was perfectly fine I kept it in there just because the investment options were fine it was just it's a retirement account I was treating it like a retirement account I wasn't going to touch it till I was 65 I'm 30 now

yeah what do you make there was uh I

make uh I'm a truck driver so I make

about 110,000 a year and I also own a

small business that I make about the

same okay under the secure act that

Biden passed you have 10 years to liquidate the 401K

completely you should have been liquidating it um at on10th a year from

the time the secure Act passed two years ago and you've not been doing that so um

I didn't know about that I know um the

uh so I'm I'm trying to figure out how

that plays into this and how hardcore

all right let's pretend that

we figure out a way to lean on them and

they cancel the check and put the money back into the 401K so

that you can roll it over within 30 days which is what they should do if they're

uh are people of Integrity this is a

problem it's not technically unethical

it's just so nasty that it ought to be

unethical uh what they've done it's a

big a lot of money it's going to cost

you it's going to cost you um you know

20 30,000 bucks and that you don't it

cost me two years it cost me two whole

years of of gains because of

this I never thought I would be upset to

get a huge check in the mail but I did

and well I'm upset because I should have

had it rolled over it should have been he should have called me yeah all right

so here's here's here's what I'm going to suggest you do and I don't think it'll work but it's the only thing I can

think of all right okay go to Ramsey

solutions.com and click on smartvestor

and find a smartvestor pro in your area

that you like after talking to them on the phone they may be able to call on your

behalf and uh talk them into undoing

this and immediately rolling it and they'll help you with the rollover okay they may be able to

site uh something that a regulation or

something that I'm not aware of um

because this is uh when you started

talking I thought you were going to tell me this was a tiny little 401k like a

$110,000 and they were just cleaning out

all the little ones sometimes they do that when a company sells or in the

event of an inherited 401k like you've

got um but this is huge this is a lot of

money and so this is part and with no

notification at all this is particularly

nasty and so I if they had simply

notified you you could have quickly rolled it over and avoided this right and they said they notified

me but I IIT a minute you're a truck

you're a truck driver you didn't they did notify you my

accounts they said they did but I never

got any notification so you've never seen evidence of them religiously yeah

ask ask them to prove that ask them to prove that they did okay okay so I mean I don't I don't

think you've got a basis for suing them but I'd be tempted

to I really would I mean cuz you're

talking about $25 or $30,000 cost here

that is unnecessary 55,000 they took out

they they it's the taxes on

55,000 the 55,000 is going to be taxed

not penalized no no they when I got my

uh experment uh like the summary of what

my original account balance was 300,000

they C me a check for 245 I understand

they took 55,000 they send it to the federal government as tax withholding

and it's not all taxable so the because

the entire because you're going to roll the rest of this if you take the check

in your hand and you roll it to a 401k

the only harm that's going to come to you is the taxes on the

55,000 which is going to be 15 grand or

20 grand oh so I'm GNA have to pay

another 15 grand honey you haven't paid

anything yet okay they

withheld your money 55,000 and sent it

to the federal government then what you

do is you file a tax return of what is

actually due and what will be actually

due is not 55,000 it'll only be the

taxes on 55,000 if you take the check in

your hand and put it into an IRA

traditional within 60 days of right now

so you need to get on the phone with a smartvestor pro right now because at

least we need to do that okay I will but

the so the worst case scenario if you

follow through on what I just told you is taxes on

$55,000 cuz the government has 55,000 of

your money as if you're going to get taxed on the whole thing and you're

not okay because you're going to roll

the portion in your hand which is 80% of

it into a traditional to keep you from

getting tax you got 60 days to do that

from the time withdrawal so folks you can pull your money out of 401k they have to withhold 20% but you

have to put 100% into an account within

60 days to avoid taxation that's what the problem he

can't do that because they got 55 of his money over at the IRS now and so if you

just take the take the 55 then you're

going to pay some taxes but not 55 so

there we go this is the Ramsey Show

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## 30. Debt Only Holds You Back, It Never Propels You Forward | January 15, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:49:26 |

---

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. And I'm

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Camel. And we'll be answering your calls. So give us a call at 888255225.

And we'll be talking about your life and your money. First up, we have Jimmy in

Los Angeles. Hi Jimmy. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey Rachel. Hey George. Big fan of y'alls. Uh thank you so much for what you do. Um, I really appreciate everything that you guys do and I've gained a lot of knowledge these past few weeks. Um, learning more about what you

guys do and how to kind of like financially plan my future, but I've kind of gotten myself into a sticky situation and um I'm just trying to see

if I can like maybe get some guidance on trying to find a way out. >> Sure. So, what's going on?

>> So, uh, late 2024, you know, I retired from the military. I served for 22 years

and uh earlier that year I decided to open up like a kind of like a shop and

um where we just do like detail services, paint protection, film wraps and things like that. And um yeah, it

actually cost me a lot of money throughout that year. >> I'm sure. How much? and to the point uh well, we're at a point now where we're like like $580,000 in debt at this point.

>> Okay. >> Um that first year we took like a $220,000 loss. Um admittedly, I think I

hired too many people full-time.

um kind of went in too fast and uh too

hard on that and um

>> yeah, it kind of really hurt me. So I ended take had to take like an SBA loan to kind of get caught up and used a bunch of credit cards and then the year after um we netted so just last year we

netted about 35% net loss. So, uh, we

had another net loss, but it was a better net loss. And, um,

>> and you're still throwing money at this thing. >> I'm still throwing money at this thing.

I mean, it seems like you're

>> Well, it seems like we're we're kind of like making a way out of that. And

>> I mean, what's what's the stop loss here? A million dollars in debt and then we'll call it quits. I mean, at some point, you just got to go, this ain't it. I would rather pack it up now versus try to It's like a gambler where they lost a bunch of money in Vegas and they go back to go like, well, now I got to win even bigger to get out of this mess,

>> right? That's what I was afraid of. And you know, through this process, I kind of been, you know, a free labor, so I haven't been getting paid by my business. >> On top of that, you're How are you paying your bills through more debt?

>> Um, >> do you have retirement through military?

>> I do. Okay. I do. >> What's that per month? >> My wife My wife works too.

>> Okay. >> Uh I pull in about 5,500 take-home per

month um from my military retirement and

she makes about >> she makes about like take home4500ish

per month. >> Okay. So 10 grand a month is what we're taking home. >> And that's that's the hard truth is that's the number we need to actually pay down this over half million dollars in debt.

Right. >> What does the trajectory look like for revenue?

>> Um, it's it's it's looking positive. Um,

because, you know, last year, like I said, even though we had a a net loss, um, it was a smaller net loss and I think this year we'll be in a positive, >> but I'm struggling because like I've been working for free for two years essentially in this business. >> Well, and digging deeper in debt. I mean, 35% loss. I mean, this is just a >> Yeah.

very expensive hobby at this point. This isn't a business. >> Even if it breaks even, this isn't worth it. >> No.

>> Right. Yeah. >> Um >> what I'm afraid of. >> Yeah.

Jimmy, what when you when you project

out what do you um with all these loans, how much is the is it half a million now or how much debt in general? I'm just trying to I'm trying to project out like what by I don't know in the next like month or two like how much total debt are you guys in?

>> So I've I've written everything down. So as it stands right now um on the

business side we're at $580,000 in debt.

Um I know I have a PhD in being a bozo.

Um >> how much of that's credit card and how much of that is small business loans?

Um, so 165,000 of that is credit and

then the rest is split up between SBA,

working capital, and a line of credit.

>> Okay.

Cuz I'm just thinking the credit cards, you know, if you get behind, those will be easier to settle than some of these loans directly, >> the SBA loan >> from the bank. >> What does your wife think about this? What does she think you should do?

>> Uh, she's not very happy with it. Uh but she's been very supportive and very understanding throughout the process. So an absolute blessing to me. Um definitely not an added stressor. She's she's been an anchor for me for sure. Um

>> yeah, I mean a little bit Jimmy, but a part of me also is like you guys aren't living in reality. Like she should be kind of flipping out. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, I mean, I understand the the anchor of of feeling supported, but you're feeling supported and doing something that's continually getting you guys deeper and deeper into a problem versus saying, "Stop. Stop where we are and we're done because we can't just keep doing this." And the problem, too, is that the guesswork um for what you're

possibly going to do this year, I mean, you know what I mean? It's like you can't you can't predict it. And and so you guys either have to say we're going to try to stick this out for a year with no more debt. No more debt. And if that means we have to close up parts of the business in order to do that, okay, to see if we can get some revenue in here.

But you guys can't just keep digging yourselves in a hole and expect just to come out the other side.

>> Right. Right. >> So I would sit down and you guys I mean you either need to make a decision if you were to stop this completely. Do you guys have um things that you can sell

off in the business? Like is there any way that you could gain any of this money back if you were to close shop today from like a real estate perspective or like you know what I mean? Um >> equipment you have in the business?

>> Yeah, I have about $50,000 worth of equipment, but I I think that's tied up in the SBA loan. They they would have to you know I'd have to get permission to to sell that off to pay that loan down.

>> Yeah. And that's why I was like, worst case, you know, I I I I really want to

avoid bankruptcy. It's definitely not my first choice. And um I've even thought about getting like a job like so I can

just get some sort of income and then using that job to pay down this debt,

but since it's a business, I don't really want to like create murky waters with me paying off business debt with my own personal income. But >> it's all it's all tied to you anyways, Jimmy. >> Go back to the papers. Look who signed it. >> It's you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's all they're all going to come for you.

>> It's not like car detailer LLC. Well, they owe the money, not Jimmy, >> right? >> It's guaranteed by you. And so, that's the that's the hard news is you have to now picture this like it's just consumer debt that you took on.

>> And so, you're going to begin the business of cleaning it up. And I hope that you can find a new job uh that can

create a better income that will allow you to clean this up faster. But if you just even sell the 50 grand worth of equipment, that's 10% of your debt you just knocked out. And so you got to start making progress. I would not sink more money into this thing just to be 600,000 in debt, 650, and hope we have less of a net loss.

I'm heartbroken for you, man. Thank you for your service, too. 22 years. That's that's incredible. I hope you guys can climb out of this.

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Up next we have Caroline in Detroit. Hi

Caroline. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

Um, well, so I recently found out that my husband's been misusing his fund money to pay for communicating with a prison pen pal.

>> Oh. >> And >> sorry, did you say a prison pen pal?

>> Yes. >> Like a Is that a lady in prison?

>> Exactly. >> Did he know her before she was in prison?

>> No. I guess it was like some ads that

popped up, he said, on a site. So, he got in this cycle and he stopped. But

I'm wondering how do I move on from this financial and emotional infidelity now

and and trust?

>> Yeah. >> Did he come forward with it or did you catch him? Like where is he at with this? Um, so I I caught him because I uh found

some suspicious numbers on on our um phone bill and but he had been like

broke all the time like just waiting for, you know, couldn't wait for that next like fund money to come but had nothing to show for it. So I I couldn't figure things out. But >> th those uh yeah, I guess I guess it's it's a thing that people do and and he was kind of like trapped in it because I didn't know. So he couldn't tell me. He couldn't, you know, do his phone number.

I mean, he just >> No, he wasn't trapped. He was willfully doing this on his own valition.

>> Yeah, you're you're right. You're right.

Yeah. >> Nobody like was forcing him to continue this weird prison pen pal.

>> How long was the how long was the relationship for? Um, I'm embarrassed to

say I didn't figure it out for three years. >> Okay. And it was the same >> woman. >> Is this a scam or is this a real thing?

Cuz it feels like a scam.

>> So, it actually is a real thing that people are doing on like it I guess the

purpose of it is to get people to get out and communicate, you know.

>> So, who's making the money? The prison.

>> Everybody's paying.

>> Exactly. So then they're they're um so

they they use the money to put on their

records or to buy things in their commissary or who knows what else. Like I'm not really sure, but it it kind of like funds their money while while they're in prison. >> Commissary money.

>> Yeah. >> That is wild. >> Okay. Yeah. Well, that Yes. Okay. So, I

mean, from the financial standpoint, Caroline, are you guys Well, sorry, let me just back up for a second. Mhm.

>> When you found out, when did you confront him about this? How long ago was it?

>> Um, it's been

probably in the past, I would say, four

months. >> Okay. Are you guys working on your marriage actively right now? Are you seeing someone? Are you, you know, going to to therapy? What are you guys doing?

So, I was I was going to therapy and we

also had the complication um that um we

had a tree fall on our house. So, we were dealing with a hole in our marriage, a hole in our house. So, even if we wanted to like get divorced, sell the house, we couldn't because we're in we have this massive hole, right?

>> You know, going on. Um, I was talking to

somebody in counseling and he did I I just I was ready to get divorced and I

just said, "Hey, would you be interested in going like to church with me, you know, sometime?" And it was only because of his reaction of like how excited he he was to like try to go to church and know that >> I was maybe there was a way that I was willing to like >> to reconcile. Was he doing work on his own individually?

um just like through the church and I

know we're going to do a marriage retreat soon. He like I talked to him about counseling. He's willing but he's just like it's just so dark. It's just like and I told him like I need this in order to >> he said it's just so dark. Is that what you said? >> I'm sorry. >> He said what was his response when you said that he needs to go to counseling?

>> Oh it like the out he's like it won't be good. It's just so dark.

>> His story, like what what's in his head, like all of that. >> Um, I think just maybe of like the whole

truth coming out, like I maybe only know a portion of it because I wanted to know like what did this person go to prison for? Am I safe? How long are they in prison for? You know, >> if you guys are going to move forward, everything needs to come into the light.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a full it's a full disclosure situation that you guys need to sit down with a counselor to even move forward. There's no way you you can move forward with half the truth with your marriage. And George and I are not marriage experts. If Dr. John Deloney were here, I think he would completely agree with us on that. Um so

yeah, so this is a this is a rebuilding because of how deeply >> cut the trust has been in the marriage, right? I mean for >> for three years and and any given period of time, right? um when a spouse steps outside the marriage like that is that is painful and that is >> yeah something to really really be working on for both of you and the individual work for both of you. You having to learn to trust yourself again for him to face some of his demons and to understand what work he needs to be doing.

I mean yeah there's there's a lot of repair that has to happen regardless of if the marriage survives. So I'm just saying individually to be two healthy people that's what you guys need and then moving forward out of that if you get the whole truth and you still decide yes I want to be in this marriage then yes then there's all the repair work within the marriage but from an emotional side um it's definitely going to take some individual work and then I would say from the financial I would definitely have have a I would be separating finances does he work and do you work do you both bring in a paycheck?

>> Yes. >> Okay.

>> Um, we were, but because we were working the baby steps, he was doing it with his fund money. >> So, he just was going >> But where was the >> But the fund money is it is the fun money in y'all's checking account.

>> Um, well, we would take it out cash.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, right now we're at the point that I'm like, in order for me to trust >> Yeah. >> your fund money is going to have to be >> tracked. It tracked >> 100%. Yes. Oh, I think that's totally fair. >> I would also pull his credit report and then freeze his credit on top of that.

So, we want to pull the credit report to make sure there's no outstanding debts that maybe you don't know about >> and to get a clear picture of what's out there and then freeze his credit so he can't open any new accounts.

>> And that's just one stop gap to make sure that there's no more financial infidelity outside of what's even in your checking account.

>> Okay? Okay. >> But I would have transaction alerts set up. So you get a text message every time a scent comes out of that bank account.

You get a transaction alert. Even if it's just his account right now if you separate.

>> Yeah. Because there has to be some steps, some visible evidence for trust to be rebuilt in the situation, Caroline. So that's not you being overcontrolling or like being his mom, right? Some some marriages can function so dysfunctionally um with money where

like one person just has all the control and has to give everything and the other one doesn't know any passwords, all that. I'm not talking about that. This is there was a there was broken trust within the marriage. Money was involved in it as it usually is. And because of that, in order to rebuild trust, I have to know exactly where the money's going.

I need every account just like his phone records. I need every account of your phone records. Like there has to be a level of of knowledge for you to keep

moving forward in this marriage when it comes to building trust.

>> Okay? >> And I know I'm I'm really tempted. I know he didn't, you know, I know he

didn't steal money from you guys and all of that, but because it was allocated to him. Um, but I I mean, there's almost a

part of me until you know that the marriage is going to survive this, I

almost would just have my own checking account, Caroline, and then but he has to be showing you his transactions out of his.

But I'm just scared that that something else is going to come up and you're going to find whether there's more on the on the infidelity side um with the

relationship or even more financially uncovering some stuff >> cuz you caught him and he still is not telling you the whole truth. And that's the scary part is we just don't know how much more damage there is.

>> And so because of that, I would just be on the cautious defensive side right now to protect yourself.

>> Okay. And then action plus time plus counseling plus God. That's going to be the only solution to rebuild this trust and restore this marriage.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I'm so sorry, Caroline. That is like it's so heartbreaking. So heartbreaking. And what's wild are these calls, George, we get we get pretty consistently. uh whether it's a marriage that you know one one of the two have

you know made poor choices but even from the financial infidelity side of taking money and doing things that the spouse didn't know about. >> Yeah. >> Um it's becoming more and more common.

So um again yeah the best line of defense Caroline is you work on you. He needs to work on him and you guys moving forward with all the truth out to decide what are we going to do.

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let's head to William in Athens,

Georgia. Hi, William. Welcome to the show.

>> How are you doing today? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Okay. I am 63 years old. I'm retired. Uh

I am debtree.

Uh I own my own home. And then of course

my wife, she we she's got about 20 acres that we own. You know, we don't owe for anything. Um >> for you guys >> and I have and I have a large sum of

money. I have never invested in anything

all my life except my 10% to the Lord.

Um, so I don't know what to do with this

money I got. It's just sitting in a plain old uh >> savings account. Okay. How much money is it, William?

>> Uh, it's a little over 400,000.

>> 400,000. Okay. And is that what you're living off of monthto monthth or do you guys have good retirement or social security?

>> No, I I have a pension that comes in every month. Okay. uh which covers

pretty much all my expenses, which my wife still works and you know she makes a good salary. >> So you guys are living off of what's coming in. You're not having to touch this 400,000.

>> That's right. It's just been sitting there year after year after year after year, which now my pension check is going into my savings and it's been

doing that for like four years and I've never touched it. So that's why it just keeps building and building and building and I don't know what to do with it. Uh >> are you calling us because you're ready to invest now? It seems like there was a maybe a fear or a hesitance to do that in the past.

>> Well, you know, when you come up poor, you know, you just always feared about taking big risks. So, uh but I had

talked to the bank about, you know, maybe, you know, doing a CD. And then uh

they talked about well maybe you can go another way and put it in an annuity. Uh

you know >> I wouldn't do that and that's just a more expensive product that gives them more commissions in their pocket. That's the truth. >> Right. Well, right. That and that was kind of my concern because that ties it up for three years.

>> Yeah. you know, so uh >> well, there's a way you can invest this money and have it grow for you. Because the truth is there is more risk of it just sitting in a checking account than there is if it's invested wisely >> cuz right now inflation has been eating up that 400 grand for years now.

>> Yeah. You probably haven't kept up with inflation with the >> savings account because your um what you're making on that is what less than 1% sometimes in some savings accounts.

Yeah. >> Yeah. So it's not even keeping up with them. So your money is actually kind of technically in value has gone down.

Yeah, it's gone down in a sense.

>> Um so yeah, so investing I understand William. Yeah, it feels um it feels risky and I think there's ways that you can invest that is risky and then there's ways that are very wise and um

yeah and that it the risk is just not there. Right. So, if you're talking about like single stocks, um if you're talking about something like cryptocurrency or whatever, right, there's some more definitely risky type ways that you can put this money, but also there's a lot that um is is

actually very safe because you can look at the the history of the fund and be

able to somewhat predict, okay, if the US economy continues to do well, and again, some years is down, some years is up, but it's not this like drastic change over time and you can kind of,

you know, you really can look at the pattern over time and say, "Okay, this one feels right." And if the US economy all crashes and burns and you lose all the money, I think there's probably more problems that we're going to have than just thinking about right that that money in the account. So, uh, William, the the first thing I would do is talk to an investment professional because what they can do is educate you and guide you and you can do that at ramiesolutions.com. Click on start investing on our website and that will connect you with someone who can help you manage this money wisely.

>> and what is which is that >> in the Bible? The parable of the talents. It's a great read. I highly recommend it.

Go check it out after this. And I hope it encourages you to steward this money in a way that helps it to grow so that you can retire with dignity, leave a legacy, and even create generational wealth. Because if you just leave this money in an average mutual fund or index fund, it would double in seven years. So on your 70th birthday, there's 800 grand sitting there.

And you did diddly.

You just left it. >> And William, I'll say this too. You know, we talked to some, you know, we talked to a lady, this was a few months ago. She was in her 90s and she was just scared to death to invest her money.

I mean, it would keep her up at night. And I'm like, you know what? You're 90 years old. Solve for peace.

If that stresses you out, you're fine. You know what I mean? But you're 63, William. You got a long life to live.

You could easily be living another 30 years.

yes, be very much considering investing and go talk to someone um that has the heart of a teacher, one of our Smartves investor pros, because genuinely you and I want you to feel comfortable with it, okay? But I do want you to learn something new for how this money can actually, like George said, double in size, continue to grow so that you can leave an even bigger bigger legacy versus living in this fear of the unknown. All right, let's go to is it Esmeralda? Beautiful name in Sacramento.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you so much for having me.

>> You're so welcome. How can we help?

>> So, I am a firsttime mom. My daughter's

going to be turning one on February 23rd

and I am planning to go to

Miami for her birthday celebration

because all my family lives there and my husband he doesn't have family out here in California. It's just us. So, I figured why don't we go to Miami to celebrate since my family out there haven't really had time to spend with her. Mhm. >> The only the only thing I'm kind of wondering now is is it too much money?

Is it even worth it with how much money we're making and how much money we have saved? And would it be too late to cancel? >> Okay. How much how much is the trip going to be total?

>> So, for the flight, I'm looking we already paid for the flight, but we did get refundable tickets and that came out

to a total of 6.372.

>> Okay. And where are you guys at financially?

>> I have I mean we have $7,700

saved and right now in my checking

account in our checking account we have

$1,300.

>> Okay. How much debt do you guys have

>> right now? It's only $200. It's from a T-Mobile payment that >> my um that my friend at the time opened

the account under my name and we don't talk anymore, but it's just that bill $200. We took care of the credit card debt when um my husband started listening to Dave Ramsey and >> Good. >> Yeah. So, no no car loan, no lease, no student loan, none of that.

>> No, I didn't go to college. Neither did he. And he paid his car off with cash.

>> Good for you guys. How much you guys make a year?

a year. Let me see.

>> Just ballpark. >> 45,000.

>> 45,000 a year.

>> Okay. And is is he just working? Are you home?

>> Yeah, I'm a stay at home mom and he's working. >> Okay. Um, Esmer. Yeah. I mean, it

doesn't bother. No, I mean because that's all you guys are. You're basically doing flights. You're going to stay with family, right? You're not going to have hotel costs or anything.

>> No, we're staying with family. Yeah.

What does the birthday consist of?

>> Right now, we're paying like a car

rental. >> Okay. >> And I was going to purchase a mini

bounce house for her with the ball pit and um cars parking. So, when we drive

to the airport, we can leave the car parked there because we don't have family out here that could drive us.

>> Sure. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I would >> And that came up to $1,000. So, I would I would I would put this in the umbrella

of like we're going to go see family versus making it a first birthday kind of thing cuz that almost is going to add more expenses from the emotional. >> You could easily climb to two grand out of just let's just have fun and let's get the bounce house. >> I would just say let we want to visit our family. So, either you can do that now with these plane tickets.

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>> Today's question comes from Kathy in Utah. I'm 70 years old and considering buying a house with a 15-year loan. If I pass away before the term of the loan is completed, what happens to the debt? I'm not married and don't have kids. Why shouldn't I borrow $500,000 knowing I may die before it's paid off? Well, that's the spirit, Kathy.

I mean, one, just integrity. I guess that's a good start, character.

But the the point of your question, if I pass away before the term's completed, what happens to the debt? Well, your estate quote unquote would pay for it, which is any assets that you own. Your the the lender would go after those first to try to pay down the debt as much as they could and then I guess they would just take on the the debt and

>> yeah, they just because that's that is the understanding that when you die,

your debt does not necessarily die with you. To a point it does, but they will.

Yes. Factor in all the assets you have.

So if you did die with credit card debt, car loan, you know, all the things, then you they you you know, you technically have owed that money. So if you have any money to your name or any assets, yes,

they are going to deplete those in order to pay the debt and then whatever's remaining will go to family um of your

estate. But again, the bank owns the

house. So they'll sell the house for what they can get for it, use that money to pay off the mortgage. And so >> that's what they would do. >> The bank just got a a free house.

So, uh, I think they might have got the better end of the deal, >> but >> yeah. Uh, but also Kathy, what if you what if you keep living? You know, >> I mean, you're renting at 70. I don't know anything else about your financial situation.

Do you have a million dollars in cash? Are you broke?

Uh, but >> buying a house knowing that you could live another 20 or 30 years is a good bet. >> And so, if you are in a financial spot to do it, I would do it.

All right, let's head to Dorothy in Manchester, New Hampshire. Hi, Dorothy.

>> Hi. How are you? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today? >> Um, I need to know if it if I should do

an additional $20,000 on a heliloc to

pay off my car, which is at 12%.

And I owe 23,000. And I have one credit

card at $1,800 at 18%.

But my HELOC is currently I have $20,000

out on it cuz I had to have a emergency furnace. Um and it's only 6%.

But um long story short, I went through

a bad divorce to be was homeless. Um

>> Oh my gosh. I'm sorry. lo lost

everything. Um, my ex stole all of our

joint bank account, left me with $3 and

I worked for the government for 20 years and I had to retire. Um, move out of

town. Um, but the new job that I have is

lower pay, but since 2019, I've been

trying to rebuild and like I said, I got a house. Well, I bought a condo before

the housing market. I have $100,000 in

equity. I bought it for 162. It's worth now over 22.

>> How much are you making now, Dorothy, with your job?

>> $27 an hour.

>> Okay.

>> And what does that come what does that come out to like per month? What are you bringing home?

>> 4200. >> Okay. >> 4200. Okay. Y. And that's enough to

cover all your bills and cover the minimum debt payments.

>> Um, what I have is my loan is 1,223,

my HOA is 300, my car payment is 464,

insurance is 250, my lights are 100, heat 100, um, TV, internet 128, and my

phone is 45. >> So, what what margin do you have left after all of that?

Um, I've been making all my payments and

I've been also making my $157 heliloc.

Um, and I've been putting $30 a week um

toward my principal of my mortgage every

week cuz 30 bucks is, you know, cup of

coffees or whatever. And uh that's all

that I have is just that credit card and my car payment. >> Okay. So what I would say Dorothy that the secret of getting out of debt is not moving debt around and trying to get a better interest rate. The secret is you.

So honestly you kind of getting into

this next gear which you've already made incredible progress like the story you told us at the beginning of the call of you know being homeless and I mean like man >> the fact that you're still standing with shelters a miracle. >> You have made huge strides. So no I

would not >> I was driving four hours to work and back. >> Yeah. Well, yeah, that's a long time.

Um, so what I would say is the magic of

getting out of debt, if there is quote unquote, it's you. So, you deciding, hey, I'm going to cut where I can. I may even take on an extra job. You have the work ethic and I'm going to clean this debt up.

When you move it around interest rate wise, over the long term, o like if you had this for 15, 16 years, then yeah, we could probably talk about it. that you can actually, you know, the short-term life of this debt because you're going to pay it off so quickly. I wouldn't fool with it. I wouldn't fool moving it around.

And I think it kind of gives this false sense of security of, oh gosh, it just feels better that all my debts in one place or that it's a better, you know, interest rate here and there. But again, that's not going to solve you getting out of debt. It's going to be you. >> It didn't change any of the behavior.

We just moved it around and put it in a different junk closet. And the other thing is you're moving from unsecured debt to a secure debt. that home is collateral and so it puts you at even further risk. >> And so like Rachel said, the solution is you.

And that means we got to get on a written plan.

We're going to save up a $1,000 starter emergency fund to stop those ankle biter emergencies. You have that in place. Do you have any other savings?

>> No. >> Okay. What is the car worth? You owe 23 on it.

>> Um, it's brand new. It's a 2025.

>> Wow.

Well, that might be something you could sell for a pretty penny. Could you sell it for almost what you got for it?

>> Actually, I got it three months ago. So, yeah, I probably could >> because what I'm seeing is that clears your debt journey in half.

>> Yeah, because see, then I could put everything of that car payment and um

>> you know, so forth toward the the

emergency of the HELOC for my furnace and stuff. But, I mean, You'll still need another car to drive >> that I have.

>> So, you'll need to save up a little bit of money. >> New job that I have. Yeah. The the new job that I have, I don't I live 2

minutes away versus 4 hours because like I said, I was driving from Vermont to

>> Portland, Maine every single day, working my eight hours and going back to back home. >> Gosh. Well, that's not a sustainable life. So, I'm so glad that it's close.

So, >> you saying you could go without a car for for a short season?

I could actually go with I I don't even fill my car maybe once a month, maybe once and a half and I'm not >> I'm just curious, Dorothy, what caused you what caused you to buy it?

>> Um because the fact just I wanted to have a forever car where I pay this off and that would be it. Gotcha.

>> Because I don't believe in leasing or anything like that and um

>> you know where I only had just my credit card but then that was it. the furnace

up. >> Well, let me tell you, an 8-year-old, 10-year-old Honda Civic, that'll last you another 10 years while you save on the side and then you could upg

your next car to be a forever car. I really wouldn't. I think that that causes this debt in this $500 payment a month. >> It's easy to justify when you go, "Well, I'm going to pay it off and I'll have it forever." That's how we make bad decisions financially.

>> And then when you're in the tactical side of your month, then you're like, "Oh crap, look at all this money going and look at how much debt now I've accumulated." So, um, so yeah, I would try to get out of this car, Dorothy, for sure.

of your annual take-home pay. And it's and yours is yours is there. So, >> $25,000 car making 50 grand.

>> Yeah. You're tight. Right on that edge.

So, if I were you, I would Yep. I'd get rid of it. Go buy something new used if you need it. But maybe for a season, like you said, if you really can go without it for a few months, save that car payment, >> free up 500 bucks, throw another thousand on top of that, you'll be debtree in 18 months.

>> 100%. Yeah. Yeah. There's some there's some moves you can make here, Dorothy, to really change it.

But I wouldn't move the debt around in the Heliloc. I would make some big changes like what you're talking about. And I know you can because you have in your life, and you're incredible.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with bestselling author and my co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Camel.

>> Honored to be here. >> We are here to take your calls. It's a little different than Smart Money Happy Hour. >> Different vibe. Yeah, >> we don't take calls on Smart Money. So that the vibe is generally a little more positive and upbeat because people aren't going through crisis on that show. >> No, but we are. That's why we're here though for this show to help you with your problems to celebrate the victories. So give us a call at 888255225.

All right. To kick us off this hour in Salt Lake City, we have Phil. Hi Phil.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

Well, uh, it it's recently come to my attention that, uh, my oldest brother has been stealing money from my parents.

>> Oh, cool. >> What started off as borrowing gas money has turned into lying his way into a massive car loan in my mom's name, stealing credit cards without my parents' knowledge. And uh, so my parents have more than $100,000 in debt

now, and that's not even including their mortgage. They're both almost in their 70s. My mom's on disability. My dad has 40,000 in his 401k and they think that's a lot.

And I'm just I I just don't see a way that he's ever going to be able to retire. And I understand that me and my wife are not financially responsible for them, but I'm trying to walk through this with them, but I I'm no expert and every time I learn more about their financial situation, I see less and less of a solution other than bankruptcy.

>> Yeah. So, two different paths. I mean, if you're going to go like full on, he

he has stolen. Did he um did he forge signatures like for the car loan? How did that happen?

>> So, from what I could gather, it seems like he's lying to my mom on what she is signing and then gets her to sign something without her reading what it actually is.

>> Well, crap. Cuz I was going to say, >> so they took this to court. They like, "Ma'am, that's your signature, right?" And she's like, "Yeah, >> but I just didn't read the document." And that's her fault. I mean, to a degree. I think I mean do you know what I'm saying? Like there's a level of responsibility that she did not take.

>> I mean it's really elder abuse is what this is. That's probably your best case.

>> Exactly. Fraud and elder abuse. That's what I'm trying. Yeah. If they would Yeah. If they would take legal action that's what it would be. Um but I'm scared for I don't know.

>> Yeah. I mean first I would freeze their credit yesterday so that no more accounts did all that.

>> I would also contact every lender on that credit report and say hey this was fraud. This is elder abuse. this guy took out all of these loans without the permission, you know, he basically coaxed them into it. And so then we go from there. I mean, do they still have contact with this brother?

>> Uh, >> do they know about this?

>> They they know about it. Um, my mom just had a stroke last week, so this is all adding to it. So, >> my gosh, Phil, >> this dude is like the scumber of all scumbers. To this to his own parents.

>> Yeah. And Yeah. And and we're trying to find him right now. He's he's been on crystal meth before, so I'm not shocked that this is uh having that involved again.

Um so, uh we're trying to find him and figure that out cuz he has the truck. He has there's also an RV that has $250,000 on it that I think is in his dad's name. That's it's a whole ordeal. So, I just and and I'm worried that my parents aren't going to file any kind of charges, which is hard to >> How do you do that to your firstborn son?

You know, I get that.

>> Yeah, >> that's the scary part. >> And so, >> and it's and it's a loan, Phil, right?

So, the problem is too, if Yeah. So, if

he stops paying and that truck gets repoed and all that's in your mom's name, I mean, it'll all be on her.

They're going to come after her for it.

>> Is he even making the payments?

>> Uh, he has not made a single payment.

No. So, I mean, are there have they repoed this? I guess you don't even know.

>> He he does still uh he does still have

the truck actually.

>> I mean, yeah. I don't know. I don't know how long he's going to have it for, but like >> I call the repo man on it.

>> Yeah. And if you can find him. So, is he disappeared?

>> Well, he he turned off all of his location services once he figured out that I caught on to him.

>> Have you filed a police report?

I believe I told my mom that she needs to. I don't know that she has yet. Um I I actually found his location this morning through his daughter. Um and so

I'm trying to >> I'm trying to figure out what I need to do, but >> Yep. Okay. So, the hard position you're in, and correct me if I'm wrong, >> it sounds like you are doing all the proactive work in this situation. You're worrying about your parents.

You're trying to find your brother. you're telling your parents what they should do. Like you're kind of the one heading up all of this and none of this is your issue. I understand it's your parents and you love them.

So like I'm just saying from a top tier perspective, the hard place that's going to happen for you, Phil, is you're going to have a wonderful, logical game plan because you're a smart, reasonable person, and you're going to say, "Mom and dad, you need to do A, B, C, and D.

they're coming after you for these charge, and this and this, and this is going to happen, and you know, you're going to have a plan laid out of what should be happening.

and in any common sense scenario and the problem is if they choose not to move forward that's their fault you know that that that's their decision it's not yours and you can't make them do something or even convince them to change their mind um so I think it's going to be a discouraging situation for you Phil here in the next few months because I think you're going to realize my parents are probably naive because you're he's been on drugs and still are signing papers for him right I mean like I would be going through a you know, going through like, oh my gosh, so detailed if if that was me.

But, um, >> they need to be as angry as we are, >> and they're not. >> And they're just like, well, I guess it is what it is. Like, what is their response right now?

>> Well, I mean, my mom feels horrible that she didn't see this coming sort of thing, but she doesn't really have the health to to take this on. And my dad has not done anything financial in the their entire marriage. He just doesn't know anything about it. He doesn't want to know anything about it.

So, >> so your dad is just sitting there. Well, >> yeah. I don't I don't know that my dad even knows to the extent of what how much debt he has. He just goes to work, makes a paycheck, and comes home. That's all he ever does. >> Y >> um my mom has always handled the finances and now she's she's learned

about some of this stuff uh in the past and hasn't told my dad about it and now it's blown up to way more than I thought it would ever be. >> Yeah. How much debt do are they in personally besides all the stuff that your brother brought in?

I would say not including their mortgage, they probably have anywhere from like 15 to 20,000. Okay. And that's a car loan and various credit cards.

>> Okay. And how much are they making a year?

>> I don't know exactly. Yeah.

>> Um but my guess would be anywhere from like 60 to 70,000 because it's just my dad. My mom is on disability. Doesn't know much from that. >> Yeah.

>> Wow. >> If you're going to be involved, you're going to have to get financial power of attorney to actually make any moves. And that might be wise based on how things have been going with your dad not being involved. Mom had the stroke.

I think now's the time to have some really hard conversations about the future. >> Yeah. So I think Phil, I mean because I I I I feel that burden right in the sense of like you you see what's going on and they don't. So I almost would just have a meeting, sit them both down and tell them, hey, this is exactly what the situation is.

I need to know numbers. I want to be able to help you and let's make a game plan. And then it would be up to them to be the ones executing it unless they want your help in doing so. But, um, I mean, I would give a latch, you know, a lastditch effort to try to do what I can to help them see and know what's going on.

But, unless they give you the power to do something, they're going to have to be the ones that, you know, make those decisions. And I I don't know if they will. Um, and that's hard.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you. Your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team just fix it and they did.

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All right, let's head to Dave in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi Dave, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, my wife and I are planning on to retiring between 3 and 5 years. And I

just feel with our total portfolio that were househeavy. We always had planned

on downsizing once we retired, but I'm

wondering if you think we should do that now and then invest that extra money.

>> Okay. Yeah. How much um how much is the house worth?

>> 650. Okay. And how much mortgage do you have left on it?

>> It's paid off. >> It's paid off. Okay. And how much do you guys have in retirement?

>> Well, it's 650 right now.

>> 650. Okay. And how old will you guys be

in 5 years?

>> I will be uh 67. She'll be 65.

>> Okay.

>> What's your game plan currently to retire? Because the house obviously is not going to produce income in retirement. It's great to have it paid off and I'm proud of you guys for doing that. But what's your current game plan regardless of what happens with the house?

>> Uh where we're going to get our funds from. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, from the 650 which will grow

plus I have a small pension and then our social security. >> Okay. So between pension, social security, and then on top of that you'll dip whatever else you need you can dip into that retirement nest egg.

>> Right. >> Okay. And you're saying, do you have too much tied up in the house? Are you guys wanting to downsize anyways?

>> Yeah, we we always planned on downsizing and then maybe, you know, we could clear

600 on this and I know I can find something for 400. So that gives us

200,000 >> to throw in there. >> That would that would give me some >> uh you know, some cushion. And so I would be doing that if you're going, hey, I don't know that we can make it for the rest of our life with this nest egg plus the pension and social security. I think it would be wise to sell use any profits to invest to then create a little mini nest egg on its own. >> Do do it now versus wait until we

retire. >> I mean, you can wait. You'll you know, either way, the house is appreciating, right? As time goes on, your your nest egg is appreciating and so it's okay to wait. This is not I wouldn't say this is on fire, but the sooner you do it, the more the less variables you'll have.

You'll kind of have more on paper to to know when you can retire.

>> Sure. Okay, great. That makes sense.

>> Yeah. Dave, how much will you guys be getting in a month with your pension and social security?

>> Um, at that point uh 452

62 about 7,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you guys need to live off of per month? I think we

figured 84. So that would be about that.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um well that's great. Yeah. I was going to say because you know when you do when you do just the quick math let's say you added $200,000 to that would be $850,000

and in you just think every seven years it doubles if you don't touch it. Um which you guys will be retiring in five years. So it's a little less than that but I mean you'll have upwards over a million for sure by the time you guys hit retirement age. and that and a payoff.

>> If you're if you're taking out, you know, your 18 grand a year to float the difference, you're talking 1% >> yep, >> of your nest egg. And so it's going to grow in perpetuity. You know, the balance will continue to grow. So >> you guys will be good.

>> I'm not concerned about that at all at the current with your current plan, >> right? >> And if you love the house, you could probably stay in it and still make this work. There just might be a few sacrifices down the line, but I think you guys will will figure that out. the pension, social security.

That's That's awesome. >> For sure. Absolutely. Thanks, Dave, for the call.

And well done. Well done. I mean, yeah, right there. Baby steps millionaires.

>> You can retire. >> It's awesome. >> With a paid for house and some money in the bank. >> So great. All right, let's head to Isabelle in Spokane, Washington. Hi, Isabelle.

>> Hi, guys. >> Hello. How can we help today? question.

My question for you guys is that I'm on baby step number two and I have about $6,900 in credit card debt and 9K on my

car loan.

>> And I'm wondering if I should take all of my investments in stocks, which total to be about $6,800, and pay off my

credit card knowing that I don't have any retirement at this moment.

>> Are is the What are the stocks? Are they in are they in like a 401k or your Roth or is just single stocks out there? The 6,800?

>> Just single stocks that um total up to 6,800s. >> Okay. Yes, I would I would cash those out. Um because How old are you?

>> I'm 25. >> Okay. Yeah, you have plenty of time for retirement and the $6,800 is going to be better spent valuewise by getting you out of a hole financially and helping pay off this debt. And then you'll be building up an emergency fund. And then Isabelle, you'll start investing 15% of your income, which I think you're going to be able to do here in the next, you know, 18 months, two years.

>> Yeah. What's left on the car loan?

>> Uh just under 9,000.

>> Okay. 16,000.

>> I make 60 roughly 63,000 a year.

>> Amazing. Yeah. So, after you cash it out, you'll have to pay some taxes on some of it, but you know, let's say you, you know, could pay it off and you're around 10 grand. Um >> Mhm. >> You know, you can make it a goal to pay pay off that 10 grand in golly, five months. >> Yeah. >> You know, four months. Get aggressive. >> Get aggressive. Get an extra job. Pay it off. Then build up an emergency fund >> of if if if you're are you single?

>> I am. >> Okay. Yeah. So, I would just do a three-month emergency fund. Whatever your expenses are, just multiply it by three and just say, "Yep, that's my emergency fund." And then when you start investing, Isabelle, if you start investing, by the time you're 27, 28,

um, it's going to be it's going to be unbelievable. Let's say, um, let's say pretend that Yeah, George is getting his calculator for us. So, let's just say you stayed at 60 $63,000 a year,

Isabelle, which you won't. Your income will grow over time. So, you're making an amazing income right now. That's going to be um what is it?

>> 69,400 a year. 787 per month is what you

would be investing. Let's say by by Christmas if you can get through this plan, get rid of all the debt, get the emergency fund, then you can begin investing. You have zero in retirement, right? >> Correct. >> All right. Get ready for this. >> Let's go. Should we go 26 to 60? When do you turn 26?

>> Um in August.

>> Perfect. Okay. So, you'll be 26. So, 26 to 66, you would have $5 million. And

that's based on a 10% return, which is what we've seen in the stock market for the last several decades.

>> Okay. >> Yep. So you'll have five five million bucks, Isabelle. You'll you'll be great.

>> And if you wanted if you want to retire at 62, you'll have 3.3 million.

>> Okay. >> And that's if your income doesn't go up.

>> That's if you never get a raise your whole life. >> That's crazy. Like that's so wild. And then you're going to, you know, maybe meet someone. You're going to double the income. You know what I mean? You just keep it going as life goes.

>> Get a house. get the house paid off, invest even more. So, you're going to be multi-millionaire if you stop playing the the game of a broken financial system, which is I got to get a credit card to get a credit score. Whoops, I carried a credit card balance. Well, I guess I need a nice car. I have a big girl job now. I got a payment to go along with that. If you can just put blinders on and not care what anyone else thinks about your financial plan, you will be unbelievably wealthy.

>> Awesome. Well, thank you guys.

>> Absolutely. Well done. Yeah, that's always uh that's always an encouraging call when you get someone in their early 20s and you're like, look, >> you still have so much time. >> You have so much time. I mean, seriously, like it is it is wild. And not that you know, those of you in your, you know, 60s and 70s, like start now,

right? If you've not started, like there there's always the point to start, but especially young people out there in your 20s, man, the the idea of compound

interest is insane. Like the amount of money that actually went to principal. Does it say that, George? It shows you how much she contributed. So like we'll go with our example 26 to 666. So a 40-year period of you investing that's 7.87 a month.

>> In that she would contribute 377,000.

That's how much of her own dollars went in there. And the growth was 4.6 million

on top of that. >> So that's what's crazy. So the earlier you start I mean honestly it's it is wild. But it does >> over 90% of that nest egg was her just

investing and leaving it alone. >> Yes. And George, you know what? It's the consistency month after month regardless.

We are doing this. We're not letting up. It is just a rhythm of life now. When you get to that point, it's just part of it.

You don't stop. And then and that, you know, you don't get caught up, I don't think, in all the the lifestyle creep and all the you know what I mean? Like there's so many things that can take you off this plan that look shiny and fun and exciting and you can still have a great life while doing this.

I am in my 60s, I'm taken care of and by me, not by the government or waiting on something else, that that you do it. And you have the power, everyone out there, you have the power to do it.

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The fun of uh doing a live show is your

co-host may spontaneously uh jump in the

uh control room and make faces and all

of it and then you say, "You know what? Actually get in the studio." Ken Cole tell my secret. Welcome our special guest and correspondent >> to be here for this segment and it's actually a perfect segment for you because something hit the news.

>> Oh boy. >> Uh recently that we were going to talk about >> in the news. >> Yes. CBSNnews.com reports that Trump has

floated a 10% credit card interest rate

cap. So here's what this could mean for

consumers. So Trump came out and basically was like >> on Truth Social. So this was not like an executive order. This is just him on social media making >> saying credit card companies should just max their interest rates at 10%. Because

now it can go I mean as high as 36%

right. So it's in the 20s. I mean like >> I think average is 25% APR right now.

>> Yeah. So it is pretty wild where it is.

Um all right. >> So here here's the what this could do.

Vanderbilt research found that a 10% cap would save Americans hundred billion a year in interest. I mean think about that. We're the nation is $1.2 2 trillion in credit card debt. That's wild. So 10% means the credit card companies will only make $120 million off consumers this year from the interest alone. That's not swipe fees.

That's not annual fees. So let's do the math. You got a $5,000 balance, you'd pay about $42 a month in interest at 10%. But at 24%, which is closer to the average, $100 a month. So that really would help a lot of Americans who are struggling with this credit card debt.

>> Yeah. But the reality is, >> let's go to reality now. The reality is he can't do that. I mean, >> he can't just truth it into existence.

Uh, nor should he. This is when when when presidents decide in free market

economies to start doing things like this and forcing free markets to do

things, you get Venezuela, you get Cuba.

So, everybody just needs to understand this all sounds good until you look at the constitutionality of it. Is it a free market policy? That's first point.

But I tell you what came to mind when I first saw this. As you guys know, I play a lot of pickle ball. Play for three hours tonight. Thankfully, my knees are in good shape. But the knee analogy came

to mind when I heard this. Uh if someone has a torn meniscus, uh you can get away with not having surgery and you might put a knee brace on. And the knee brace is somewhat helpful. So George, you just laid out beautifully how 10% at a cap would be

very helpful. I don't want to gloss over people that are hurting right now. I don't want to be insensitive. Yeah. >> So, it's like a knee brace. >> Yeah. >> But here's the thing. >> The meniscus isn't going to heal. The knee brace just helps a little bit. It doesn't solve the problem. And and this doesn't solve the problem, which is Americans have a taste for debt. And it's not

going to solve the problems. The debt snowball solves the problem. The baby

steps solve the problem. Uh lowering your interest rate doesn't solve the problem. How many times we get a call like should I move my debt around and we So for that reason uh this feels like politics to me and he's he has every right to tweet or truth or whatever he wants to do. It's uh I think it's posturing and I did this when Biden was president. I don't care who the party is. I'm going to call strikes. I'm going to call balls. And this isn't going to solve the credit debt problem. Yeah.

>> That's a good reminder. This is for one year. So this cat was for one year.

>> So then what? >> It's not law. It's not. It's not even an executive order. He can't do that. It would have to be Congress rewriting federal law. There have to be a bill in place. Everyone has to agree, >> which I'm for that if Congress does it.

>> And we're talking about banks which make billions and billions of dollars. They're going to find a way to get their money. >> Well, what they'll do is raise annual fees. They will fee you to death and they'll make their money elsewhere. >> Banks are not like, >> "Oh, you're right. You know what? That would help people 10%." We didn't even think We didn't even think about that. Thank you, Trump. >> You're so right, Rachel. They have they have lobbyist they have the best lobbyists in the world. Do you think that legislation is gonna pass?

>> No. >> And of course, here's the best part. JP Morgan CFO is saying this is going to hurt people, guys. We can't do this.

It's going to hurt people who need credit the most cuz what this means is tighter lending. >> These credit card companies aren't going to lend to the subprime borrowers. And so, he's saying it's going to actually hurt everyone. >> Oh, you two are gonna love this one.

You're gonna love this one. I saw this on uh Twitter. >> Yeah. >> By the way, I refuse to call it X.

>> Thank you. Uh, somebody came out the day that this was this came out, I saw this. They were like, "Well, what people don't realize is is if they lower that interest rate." How where do you think all the points come from? It comes, which is right, by the way.

>> Yes. >> The point system is built on people, all of it, >> who aren't paying their debt off and every month they're paying 22%. And that's where the miles and the >> going to happen.

>> Guys, the banks are smarter than you.

>> There's no free lunch. Have you ever heard that phrase? >> Yes. There's no free lunch.

The only way to make this better is to pay off the debt like we preach >> is to get rid of it. >> It's so true. Here's a fun fact. Credit card rates are protected under federal law.

It's called National Bank Act. It's locked in by a Supreme Court ruling from 1978. And what this does, the ruling, this is crazy. It lets banks charge whatever rate is allowed in the state they're based in.

So, guess where credit card companies go?

So they can just go. >> It's like a loophole where they go, "Well, we can we can charge 36%."

>> So Delaware and South Dakota are the only two states in the country where there are no caps. >> No rate caps. And that's where all the credit override that without Congress rewriting federal law. And so there's no bill right now, which means >> and the reason that passed in the in the 70s was what? To give the free market and the banks to be able to to have a free market economy.

>> Um I mean I do know what you mean. The reason I'm pausing is I don't want to misspeak >> because I'd have to see. We'll have to look into first. >> I always assume Ken honestly has any answer to any history legislation. I'm like >> well I can in theory I can say that that this is where lobbying comes in and the big banks convinced Congress and and you know I mean that's why we call. >> So here's here's another dumb question.

If there if that is just platforming, if Trump really cannot do that by law to go in and do what causes him to come into the headlines and to to throw it out there just to stir the pot >> the same thing when he says and winks winks and says uh he might run for a third term. He says whatever he wants to say. >> Well, I know but >> he's a showman and so that's part of it.

>> But I'm just saying is it was there something else stirring that he's like >> Yeah. Yeah. The midterms >> going to be going to be the votes.

>> Okay, let me tell you this. the number one buzzword in politics in America today. You guys know what it is?

>> Tell us. Can >> affordability. >> Oh yeah. >> Both sides of the aisle. It is going to be the issue in the midterms. And and so

presidents do this. I don't begrudge him for it, but that's why he did it. By the way, it was probably 3:00 in the morning. He probably just had a fileto fish sandwich, >> you know, brought to him by Secret Service. The guy never sleeps. Yeah. You know what I mean? >> I've heard that. >> And so he just gets on truth and he's like, "Oh, this is a good idea." Yeah, >> let's stir some things up. What should be anyway? This sounds good.

>> Yeah. And you know, and I will say from my seat, the banks do screw people. But also, we have chosen as a country, as a consumer base to get into this amount of debt, right? Nobody That's right.

Nobody tortures you and forces you to sign for the car loan or the credit card or whatever. Right. We as adults, if you're over 18, have chosen to put your signature on something. >> That's true.

>> I don't begrudge the banks. You know why? The banks are just like the guy in the kiosk in the mall where I'm walking by with my wife. He's like, "Hey, HEY, HEY, >> HEY, >> TRY this one.

Try this." >> And you have every right to just pass by. >> I can ignore him or I can stop and get sucked into it and then the whole let the whole spiel sell me on whatever it is. >> Now Ken's got a new face lotion all of a sudden. >> Right.

There you go. I want to say is I'm with you. A new keychain. >> But like you I'm I'm I'm validating your point.

>> Banks aren't bad.

business of making money. >> Yeah. They do pry on people. They know.

They know the >> tax. I agree. But I'm saying we Let's get some personal responsibility. >> Right. Right. Which is Yeah. What?

>> By the way, Trump threw out the 50-year mortgage, too. >> So, he's just throwing stuff out there just to see what's >> What was the math on that one that you did? It would be like a million dollars in interest or something, but was it crazy? >> You essentially never pay it off. The principal doesn't go down until you're 41 years into the mortgage.

That's when more is going to principal than interest. 41 years into a 50-year mortgage. Yeah, >> wild. >> So, uh, yeah, uh, folks, I would say don't get your financial advice from presidents andor the banks.

>> Takeaway, I would I would pay my credit cards off today and cut them up versus waiting and hoping that maybe the rates will go down and so I'll hang on. The banks, they don't care about your financial piece, and that's fine. The politicians, they're not going to solve your debt problem. And the system is designed to keep you dependent on lenders and on lawmakers. So, the best part is you don't have to be dependent.

You can break free from the system and just say, "No, I'm going to use my own money." What's in your wallet, George?

>> A debit card. >> I thought you were going to say cash. >> And cash. >> It won't fit. >> Uh Ken, thanks for jumping in last night. >> Always fun. You guys are the best. >> Thanks.

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal for the right price. And the Ramsey Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust who will h help >> just just a little my little if you're that comes in there help make your home

a blessing not a burden. It's easy. You just can compare agent profiles which I love. So you can like look at different ones, see what people are saying, look at their look at their profiles, interview them, and then choose the right one to work with. To find a Ramsey

trusted real estate pro for free, go to ramseyolutions.com/agent or click the link in the description if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast. >> Little Sharon Ramsay snuck out there.

>> Help you, >> Rachel. Just a little help. Oh, you

know, you can't you can take the accent out of the girl. Oh, I just can't take Well, or the girl. How does >> whatever they say. >> Yeah, whatever that that saying is. All right, let's head to is it uh Ally?

Would you go Ally >> or Ali? >> Or Ali in New York. New York.

>> Yes. >> Hi Ali. Welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> I just have a simple question. I run a limousine company here in New York and uh I have a lot of independent contractors. They work with me. they have their own vehicles.

So, I have right now only one driver that drives my car, which you know lowers my expenses. But the question I wanted to ask is um if it's okay for me

to buy another vehicle and hire another driver, which is going to obviously, you know, add another car payment and the

insurance and the drivers pay on my payroll. So that's the question I want to ask is should I keep using the independent contractors or you know buy another vehicle and hire my own driver?

>> Yeah. Well, if you're going to go through the avenue of debt, oh yeah, I would say yeah. No, I would say you're not financially ready to do that because

from a financial perspective, even with small business, we always say move at the speed of cash. if you have the cash in order to do it, if you have enough revenue, profits coming in that you know, okay, yes, I have the ability to pay someone full-time, save up for a car, like all of this is going to be streamlined, then yes, I would. Until then, I would not. But I but I think that could be a great, you know, next milestone for you. Um because I do know,

you know, the car service, you know, world in New York, I know it's um there's a lot of need out there, right? There's a lot of people um that use car services. So, I do think that your ability to make money is there and I just wonder if you make it more of a goal than like an urgent um implementing

something quickly.

>> Yeah, I mean uh because I was doing the math, it's going to add at least you know 10 grand um uh on my uh you know

monthly including the you know driver's

pay and the car payment and the insurance. So $10,000 monthly is going to add uh >> that's the expense for you >> for one adding. Yeah, because the vehicles we use is a Cadillac Escalade SUV. We buy a lot of high-end business executives and uh we did around 1.1

>> million uh last year and uh >> is that top line profit >> gross? >> Yeah, that was the top. Yes.

>> What do you take home from the business?

>> Um approximately 350 to 400.

>> Oh, amazing. Okay, Olly, hit me straight. Couldn't you save up and buy one of these in cash? Maybe buy one used, get a deal, and then it's it's pure cash flow.

>> Yeah, I mean, the the one thing I I think the only option I'm going to have to go to, as you just said, maybe I have to save money to buy the car because we

uh if I buy a used vehicle, what's going to happen is they won't give us the warranty, which is 150,000 mi warranty we normally get when we get a new vehicle. So, um, because, you know, we

run these cars for a long time, uh, put

a lot of mileage on it. So, if I buy a used one, it's not going to have that warranty. >> Sure. But you could self-insure at this point with the business. I mean, you can create your own warranty fund and put 500 bucks a month into a pot and go, "All right, we're going to cover maintenance and repairs with this money instead of paying the the fees for the warranty." Because what you're doing is you're destroying these vehicles by using them for business, which means you're likely underwater on that car pretty quickly.

>> You owe 60 grand. The car is now worth 40 cuz you already have 100,000 miles on it, whatever it is. And so it's actually putting you at more risk by buying those cars with a loan. And so I would encourage you get a deal, buy one used.

They're still nice cars. Even a 5-year-old Escalade is I'm not going to go, "Well, it's not a 2025, so I'm not going to ride in this vehicle." You know, it's about the service you provide. >> It's clean, smells good, right? I mean, it's all that. >> And so, if you run this, do you have any debt tied to the business right now?

>> Uh, yeah. Right now, the only debt I have is uh which, you know, we have brand new two two brand new vehicles.

Uh, it's close to 130 130,000.

>> Okay. How quickly could you pay that off?

>> I can pay that off uh I would say within

six or eight months. >> Cool. Amazing. >> Think about that though.

If you got rid of all the debt and then you begin to cash flow any future vehicles, run the numbers on that and not only will I think you're going to go, "Oh my gosh, this is amazing." Yes, it's going to take a little bit of delayed gratification right now and sacrifice, but the long term is you survive in this business 10 years from now because everyone else is overleveraged underwater on their car loans and you're going, "Sweet. I got six Escalades paid for in cash." >> Yeah. And what's crazy, Ollie, is George and I, we were in New York City March of 2020.

literally the day they were shutting down Broadway, all of it cuz we were there for a media thing right when CO hit. So my thing is too, you know, whether it's, you know, something like that. I mean, who knows what could happen where everything just stops, right? Business for you guys in 2020 through 21 probably just ended, right?

I mean, it just was done. And so there's still a level >> Yeah. a level of risk that you carry when you carry debt. And especially since yours is so dependent upon, you know, other people and even, you know, I I don't know if it's just execs that you guys um you know, do this car service for or other people, but there's something to be said that if for some reason business just stops when you don't have debt, you have a lot of peace.

A lot of peace. Thanks for the call, Ollie. I hope that helps.

South Carolina. Hi, Ethan. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, guys. How's it going? Yep. >> We're doing well. How can we help today?

Well, uh, it's kind of a compound question, but I'll keep it brief. Uh, my

fiance and I are going to get married in June. >> Yay. Congratulations.

>> Thank you. Thank you. It's been a long time coming. About a two-year engagement. >> Oh, good. >> Yeah. Um, so we have our honeymoon paid

for, we have our wedding paid for, just a couple of expenses here and there, but we're wondering, should we rent first?

Should we buy first? uh we have an opportunity to live with family, but I'll explain more of that in a bit.

>> Okay. Yeah. My my kind of go-to answer usually, Ethan, is if you guys are not if one of neither of you are homeowners right now. Is that right?

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, yeah, starting off like that, I would definitely just rent. rent for a year, get settled, get an apartment, like just kind of just, you know, have that, save some money, and then when you look up and say, "Okay, we do have enough to put a down payment, you know, which is 5% for first-time home buyers is what we recommend on a 15-year fixed rate and mortgage, you know, and it may take you longer than a year to save depending on where you guys are financially, you know, what you guys can put away." Um, so I would not buy a home until you have that till you're financially ready.

So, in the meantime, I would be renting. But even if you were financially ready, there is still part of me, George, that I'm like, you know, >> still wise. >> Yeah. Just rent for a year.

>> I'm curious, Ethan. I see the word debt on my screen. How much debt do you guys have? >> Uh, we have I did the math while I was on hold.

It's right at $89,000.

>> Okay. What's What's going to be your household income once you guys are married?

uh per month or total?

>> Total per year?

>> Total per year. Uh I currently bring homes around 70 or 70. She's about to

graduate from nursing school, so it's kind of hard to guess, but I'd say probably around 60 to 70.

>> Good. We all making a good income. Yep.

>> So that you have a great goal while you're renting, which is clean up the mess and aggressively pay off your consumer debt, which means we're not going to do any investing. We're not going to live the like crazy newlywed life and go get a bunch of stuff and go on all these crazy trips. >> No, we're living on $40,000 a year. Tell yourself that and then throw that to throw that hundred at this debt and get it paid off, you know?

I mean, you guys could clean this up in one year, Ethan, which is so amazing. And then beyond that, build, you know, building up an emergency fund and then saving up for that down payment, which again, you guys have a great income. So, you're going to be able to do that. >> Don't get tempted because everyone goes, "Well, you're married now.

You need a house. You need a house. Let's go buy a house. They don't pay your bills.

They don't know your stress levels.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my

good friend, bestselling author, George Camel, and we co-host a another podcast

Ramsey Network show called Smart Money Happy Hour. So, make sure to check it out. All right. Give us a call at8825-5225 and we're here to answer your money

questions and any questions about life.

You know, sometimes money uh definitely is integrated into our relationships and our jobs and careers and all the things.

So, we are here for you. All right, let's go to the phones and we're going to go to Chicago starting us off and Brooke is on the line. Hi, Brooke.

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, my husband and I found ourselves in sort of a unique situation last year. He had just graduated from dental school and we moved to a small town in South Carolina where he worked as an associate dentist at a practice that essentially was committing insurance fraud, drilling on things that didn't need to be done.

So, after about a month or two there, we reassessed our options and realized the best bet was to move back to Chicago,

where I'm from, to live with my parents while we finished out our lease on our town home there. So, the original goal when moving here was to try to pay off

as much as our student loans as possible. I'm a physical therapist, he's a dentist. We both combined have about 600,000 in student loans >> over the past year.

>> Wow. correctly. >> Oh my gosh. Okay. Okay.

>> So, over the past year, we um were able

to pay off I think moving here. I think I had a approximately 140,000 in student

loans. We were able to kind of wipe that out. So, now it's been a year living here. We've been with my parents.

He still has his 420,000 in student loans. And so, I guess the next step, like I'm just calling in to get some wisdom on, you know, we've stayed. We're still in a good relationship with my parents, but should we continue to live with them, saving up for potentially a down payment on a home? Should we be looking more into renting for the time being?

>> So, his he's a percentage of production.

So, his is approximately I would say probably 140,000 >> 140 >> since he's an associate dentist. Yeah.

>> Okay. And what about you? >> And I make approximately 90.

>> Okay. Um, and do you think >> I know what hits? Oh, sorry.

>> Well, yeah. So, so you guys living with your parents, you basically if you lived on nothing, then you should be able to

pay off this in two years,

>> correct? With his you mean for her for

his student loans? >> Well, yeah, you guys are Yeah. I mean, at 250, if you guys each live if you lived on 50,000 a year, which is plenty

because you don't have rent or you're not paying utilities and stuff, I'm assuming you got $200,000.

>> Do you still have debt on top of his 420?

>> So, at next month, we will have paid off

my student loans. >> Okay. So, yours is done. So, the 420 is left. Yeah. So, if you guys had two years where you put $200,000 a year, that's 400,000. And then, you know, you're working a side gig or whatever. You guys are making 20,000 extra between in those two years. You guys could have this paid off. >> I would be busting it. Um, I would make it my goal to get out of there as soon as possible. I'll say it that way.

>> Don't let this be a hammock where you go, "Well, we're comfortable. Let's go on a vacation. Let's get a nice car. We have no expenses. This is great." >> You see where I'm going with this? Cuz that's the real situations we hear from when people go, "I'm living with this really happened. They I They were living with parents to pay off their $10,000 in debt." I asked them, "How much debt do you have now?" $40,000 in debt. They went into debt while living with family because they got comfortable.

>> And my I guess we're trying to move out, I guess, as soon as possible. So, we're looking maybe in the next few months here to try to move out. So, >> and what is rent cost in your area?

>> About 3,000 a month.

>> Okay. So, you'll be, you know, 40,000.

>> It will slow you down by, you know, 36 grand a year essentially.

It would. And he accumulates about 2500

to 3,000 a month in interest on his loans as well. >> Oh my. That's your rent right there.

>> That's worth noting. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I would be busting it to make $300,000 this year and throw every penny at the debt. And maybe you guys get on a game plan with with your family and go, "Hey, here's our timeline. Here's what we're doing. Keep us accountable.

Check in with us." And I there's a part of me, Brooke, too, that I, you know, for the good of just you guys in general, I do think there's a a gift in living with them right now while you're paying it off. But I think having an end date that kind of makes you uncomfortable >> and forces you guys out.

And you got pretty much a good calendar year and you're throwing so much at the debt, but then you're saying, you know what, a year from now, we're going to be living in our own place. we're going to finish paying off the debt. It may take us an extra couple of months because we're living on our own, but there's something about that growing up and being out on your own as a married couple. Um, that I I don't know.

I think it's there's something about having an end date for me >> would be really helpful. So, it's not this ongoing idea that you're living there. >> And I would and again, I think I would and I would shorten the timeline in a sense just to get you guys out, right? You're both adults.

You both are smart people. You're a physical therapist. He's a dentist, right? Like you are capable adults and you'll be able to pay this off.

And there's something about two capable adults not living at home that's good for you guys. But for a season, I think it's okay right now. I was just have an end date.

>> Yeah. So, if we've set an end date, let's say, of November, do you think it's important to because what we've been doing for the past year is doing that, like putting all our money towards my student loans. We knocked them out.

That's great. But now we have like nothing to shoot for it other than like no debt on my part. Is it smart to kind of be saving money on the side as well just so that way if by November we're looking to buy a home? Like is that >> Brooke, I need you to put the idea of buying a home on hard pause right now.

We have a huge mountain in front of us.

You guys will be homeowners and you will retire multi-millionaires. But right now, for the next probably two or three or four years, >> you have a mortgage right now. >> Creating a foundation of $220,000.

>> The amount of interest you pay is more than most people's mortgage. >> Yeah. So, let's focus on knocking out all debt. >> Yes.

All focused on this. >> Then you get an emergency fund of 6 months. Then we begin saving up the down payment. And so you might crunch the numbers and go, "Okay, in Chicago we're that's a $700,000 home.

We might need to downgrade to a town home that's $600,000 in the suburbs." Whatever.

>> Yeah. How How old are you guys, Brooke?

>> 27. >> 27. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, if you guys are debtree by 30, you do some saving, and you guys are, you know, homeowners by 32, that's a great plan.

>> So, and you have plenty of time, you guys have time, and you make an incredible income. Like, you're going to be able to make some big strides. And that's if all of your income stays the same for the next five years, which it's not. It's going to go up over time. Um, so it's going to fast forward your plan.

I think you're going to get to all of these things faster, but you have to do it in the right order, which is the baby step. So, you want a $1,000 emergency fund. Go ahead and get out of all your consumer debt, build up that emergency fund, and then be uh saving up for that down payment. Have you guys um have you guys read the Total Money Makeover?

>> My husband has. He's having me reading it right now. >> Oh, well, there you go. I was going to give you a copy, but you don't.

I'll give let me give you George's George's breaking free, bro. >> There's more jokes in there. I think you'll enjoy. >> Yeah.

Yeah. It's a It's a great one. >> And read the student loans chapter. It'll light a fire.

>> Yeah. It just kind of solidifies, Brooke, like just the way our generation does money. It kind of just like pokes a hole in all these, you know, industries to show you that you don't have to be normal. You don't have to be normal.

I don't want you going backwards in your progress. Continue to move forward. You have a great income. You guys are smart, but get rid of this $420,000 loan in two years. Do it. Make a crazy goal and do it.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseyolutions.com/start.

Answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

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Up next, we have Samantha in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi Samantha. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

>> So, uh, my husband and I are on Baby Step 7 and we're trying to figure out what to do next. Um, so we are out of

debt. We've got 3,000 in savings. We're contributing to our 401k and our Roth IRA and so we're just um and we own a

home.

>> That's amazing. What's your house worth?

>> Um when we bought it, we bought it for 150 and right now it's worth about 400.

>> Oh my god. >> Paid off.

>> Yeah, we we paid it off. >> How old are you guys?

>> Um 28 and 29.

>> Oh my gosh. Samantha, >> who raised you? This is crazy.

>> I grew up listening to Dave Ramsey on the car ride home. >> Financial peace, baby. And you guys were like, "All right, let's just live this out." So, you guys got married, you were debtree or close to it. You were able to get a house faster and pay it off.

>> What do you guys make a year?

>> Um, between the two of us, we make about 200 uh before taxes.

>> Okay, good for you guys. And >> you said you had how much in savings?

>> 30,000. >> 30,000. Okay, awesome. And you're asking what's next?

Yeah. Um, I also have a secondary question that might play into this. Um, I have a house I inherited as well on top of this. Um, and so we're debating selling it and investing it in another house to kind of be like our, you know, rent our current house and invest in a nicer house to live in >> um versus sell it, sit on the money, put

it into like um stocks or something.

Like we're not really sure what to do with it at this point. >> Yeah. When do you guys want to upgrade houses? Do you know?

Um, we're looking to do it sooner than later. We are putting that home on the market just because it's not making us anything and we're unable to rent it comfortably due to the location and manage it well. >> Okay. >> Um, so we want to, you know, have a rental in the same city that we're in so we can manage it. Um, >> what do you think you would net from that?

>> Probably 400,000 as well.

>> Wow, that's incredible. Jeez.

>> So, you would take that 400,000 and get a different house in cash and then you would keep your current one and rent it.

>> Yes. >> Is that feasible?

>> Yeah. >> You can get the house you want for that 400 in your area?

>> Um, our dream house would probably be a little more. So, we'd have a mortgage about 200 and then we'd pay that off in about a year to two years is our goal.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. Well, I think that's Yeah. So, you ask what's next. I think that would be the next step, right? So for probably for the next two to three years when it comes from everything from selling the houses, closing, finding the new one, all that, you know. So I would say you guys have like a house goal uh here for

the next three years of buying something and if you take a small mortgage, paying it off quickly, all of it. So that would be >> you'll be back in baby step six for a bit and then back to seven and then you reassess your goals and that's really when the world's your oyster and you guys get to dream. Do we want to >> get another home? Do we want to get into real estate?

Do we want to give more? go on these trips. It just sort of scales up everything. It scales up your spending, it scales up your giving, and it scales up your investing.

>> Yeah.

and find some things that you guys are excited about. And I think, you know, this is one area that Winston and I really kind of had on autopilot for for a few years and probably because we were having babies and all of that. I don't know. We were so we were giving and doing, you know, mathematically what we were supposed to, but it just kind of didn't get as exciting. And so we've switched up even how we give and it's it

is so fun. Like it it has brought the joy back for me in the last like year or two of like, oh my gosh. So get creative in your giving. Find things that you really are passionate about.

Um do some fun stuff with that money. I mean genuinely that is it is some of the most the most fun you can have with money and we say it all the time but it really is true and then be saving continuing to invest and and even maybe you know have some big savings goals for things that maybe you want and then enjoy some of it and so doing the giving saving spending formula.

kind of crazy is like there's not a lot of people say this when they finish the baby steps they're like >> they want like baby step eight. Okay, what's what do I keep doing? You know, so >> I'm like, you tell me. I don't get to decide your life for you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We've done some travel and we've done some things. So, I we could have more saved. Um but I mean, we we've been kind of enjoying life a little. And now >> you guys have kids. Excited to sell.

>> No, we don't. We kind of want a bigger place before we do that. >> Okay, cool. Well, here's what I'll tell you. >> No, go now. Samantha, >> have kids. >> Yeah. Don't wait for the big house.

>> What I want to tell you, >> babies are small. >> It's okay for your dreams to change. You may go, you know what? I want to stay home.

And you guys have the flexibility to do that without it being, you know, adding any financial stress to your life. And so I would I would sit down to a dream date with your husband this weekend and go, "Hey, let's both put a a goal for each category on paper of what we want to do next year. Here's my giving goal. Here's my investing saving goal.

>> And we're having kids next year. It's going to be awesome. >> You never regret. You never regret it.

>> We want to be We do. One of us is going to be a stay-at-home with the kids. Um, so we want to be comfortable with that like one income. >> Yeah. I think you guys are great, right?

I mean, you have no debt. You're choosing the house thing. I'll say that.

If the if the getting into this new house, >> that's the caveat is does that put a damper on your plan for one of you to stay home. I don't want you to be like, well, once that house is paid off, then maybe we'll start thinking about having kids. I would put the kids as the priority before upgrading the home. The child will survive in this home that you have now.

That's true. Okay. Um, and then if we were to say sell like this house the next month and then we we decide not to buy a home, would you guys let that money sit in a high yield interest account or would you invest or how much of that would you save?

>> I would go high yield because you're talking about like a one or two year goal, right? This money is not going to sit there for more than one or two years. And that's where I go, hey, the market, it's been great the last few years. Who knows what 2026 or 27 is going to bring if it's negative 20% and now you're on the cusp of trying to buy this home. And so the high yield savings account just gives you some stability. It'll grow at, you know, 3.5% right now.

But that's that's kind of more guaranteed than the market, which is going to fluctuate more drastically. So if I had a one or two-year goal, I'm going to park it in high yield savings. And if you want a great option, you can check out Fairwinds. You can go to fairwinds.org/ramsey.

They have an awesome uh smart bundle for you. >> Up next, we have James in Ohio. Oh, hi James.

>> Hi guys. Thank you for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> So, um, my wife and I just last year

purchased our first home. Um, and it's

it's a little bit of a fixer upper. Um, well within what we can afford, but I did jump the gun a little bit and looking back in hindsight, I kind of regret it. Uh, just because we still have a little bit of debt. Uh, just a little under 20,000 total.

>> Okay. Um 122,000 of that is on my wife's

car. >> Okay. >> 5,000 in a student loan of hers. Okay.

And just under two grand in credit card debt. >> Okay. How much do you guys make a year?

>> Uh last year I grossed about 80 and she

her about 20. >> Okay, perfect.

All right. Well, why don't you all just, you know, pay this off in five months?

>> That's the goal ultimately. Um, so but essentially my question was is I'm driving a car that I bought for $5,000 cash. >> Um, and we still owe about 12 on hers.

>> Um, and I know it's well under 50% of my

our income, you know, wheels and motors.

But, uh, what I wanted to do was sell the car and get another, you know, cheap car just to pay that debt off because I'm so tired of making that payment. and which she disagrees with. She thinks we should just keep it and pay it off. >> What's the car worth?

>> Uh, probably about one or two less than I owe on it. >> And how much do you have in savings?

>> So, I pause on the baby steps because my house is in desperate need of a roof. So, I have 10,000 in savings earmarked for that. Um, now I think that my dad and I, cuz I'm going to do it myself, can probably do it for about six.

I don't know what's what we're gonna uncover when we rip the shingles off, you know, open Pandora's box and >> wow's gonna need replaced or anything. So, >> I'm not looking to sell her car right now. >> I know. We're on her team. >> I think you guys will pay it off. If you can pay it off in 5 months, it's not worth selling cuz now you got to turn around and use savings to buy a $5,000 car or $3,000 car, which could lead to more issues. So, >> you're going to upgrade sooner anyways.

So, no. I Yeah, I think it's um I think it's doable. I think >> it's not that desperate. >> Yeah. And I think you guys need to tighten this up, James. I mean, you guys have kind of I understand that the whole house situation is kind of put you guys in a in a different position, but I mean, get back on track and you guys can can get all this cleaned up really fast.

Really, really fast. Just be on the same team with it. But no, we would probably not sell your wife's car.

Hey good folks, Dr. John Deloney here.

Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So, guess what? Ramsay Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives, and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers.

That's ramiesolutions.com/careers.

If you ever hear a money question and you want some guidance like you would on the show, um, then we have a spot for

you. So, I mean, I feel like this show, George, it's sometimes hard to get on the line. It's always all the lines are usually always booked up. So, if you're like, "Man, I've really wanted to ask this question." Well, we've got a free tool for you. >> Here's your chance. >> Yes. If you go on our website, you can ask your money question and get an answer to your situation >> 24/7. >> It's pretty crazy. So, um, AI, love it,

hate it. Well, we're using it for our advantage. So, we actually, our Ramsay team went in and like did all their magic and the Ramsay AI is here. It's

built on the Ramsey principles, customuilt, so it stays in the guard >> rail. It's not random financial advice.

It really is through Ramsey Solutions and what we teach. So you can ask your question at ramseyolutions.com or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. So you guys check that out.

>> I dare you all to go test it out right now and see how close it is to what we would say on the show. It'll be a fun experiment. >> That's great. Yeah, we're trying to help as many people as possible.

not, you know, if you can't get on the show or slide into our DMs with your question, we don't get back to you. Whatever the thing is, like you have the ability to ask a question about your money and we want to help you do that.

Canada. Hey, >> fun.

>> Hello. >> Hello. Welcome to the show. We uh love

to bring on people who have absolutely killed it when it comes to money just to

hear their story and honestly to to kind of set up the idea like this can happen like you can actually >> it's possible looks like yes and build

um a positive net net worth and one over a million dollars. So um Kurt, thank you again for for coming on. And what is your net worth?

>> Uh just north of 2 million Canadian.

Wow. And how old are you?

>> I just turned 45 not too long ago.

>> Well, that's wild. Are you married?

>> I am. >> Fantastic. Okay, tell us uh the mix of this 2 million. Break it down for us.

>> Oh, goodness. Um probably a quarter of it is retirement. Um 10% is my kids'

college fund. Um I've got about a

quarter of it in um corporate assets for

the businesses that my wife and I run.

and uh some cash on hand, some you know

probably a third of it is my house uh our house. Um yeah, just places.

>> I love it. And you guys have been following this plan for how long now?

>> So, you'll have to forgive me. I didn't know uh Ramsay and the Baby Steps existed until maybe four or five years ago. Um >> you were smart before you found us. >> You did great. >> That's impressive. >> Well, smart and stupid. I I I I won't I

won't lie. You know, we took on a a what I would call a soul crushing amount of debt, but we were we worked our way most of the way through it, and we all we have left is the mortgage. >> Wow. What's your household income?

>> Um just right around 200,000.

>> Okay. What was your best year and worst year of income during this journey?

>> Oh, the Well, the worst year would have been when we first got married. I was still a university student and my wife made $33,000.

Um and uh but once I graduated, our

household income sort of started around

70 or 80,000. Uh we kind of averaged

around 100 110 most of the time. It's only only in the last few years has it really um moved upward.

>> That's awesome. And did you and guys inherit any of this 2 million? Uh, you

know, my my wife's mother gave her part

of her when my my wife's grandmother passed away, uh, my mother-in-law gave us $5,000 to go on a trip for fun.

>> So, safe to say it did not mathematically cause you to become millionaires. >> No, >> cuz that's a big myth we hear all the time. Well, you got to inherit money to be a millionaire. Must be nice. That's not your story. >> And what are your careers? Are you >> uh so my wife is a bookkeeper and I'm an

engineer. >> Fantastic. Which >> that's about uh right up the alley of our study about mill on millionaires.

>> Number one career choice. >> Y >> in the millionaire study over 10,000 of them was engineer. >> Mhm. >> What do you attribute that to Kurt? Is that you know you're a process driven guy and you just went okay I'll just follow the process?

>> Uh well I attribute it to my wife um as

any sane man should. Um,

no, we it was always, you know, we we

live within our means and um, apart from

a few decisions along the way, you don't

buy something if you can't pay for it.

>> Okay. So, y'all have always been very averse to debt, you would say.

>> Well, yes and no. My my mentor retired

earlier than planned and he sold the business to myself and uh my one of my and my business current business partner and uh we weren't quite ready to to purchase that outright and so we had to finance the purchase of the company. >> Oh, that's right. That part, but consumer debt when it comes to clothes and vacations, >> credit cards cars.

Uh we we we financed one and I and it

just I hated it. It >> it uh >> Yeah. After about two years, >> two years I just couldn't stomach it anymore. And so we we got rid of that as soon as we could. >> Wow. What are you guys driving today as real life millionaires?

>> Give me a year, make, model.

>> My car is a 2013 Volvo C30, just has a

little hatchback um with over 100,000 miles on it. Uh my wife, she gets the new car. It's It's We We bought her a new car just a couple years ago. Fell on our last >> a tree fell on our last one, but >> Oh my goodness. >> Um >> Yeah, it was just unfortunate timing.

But uh No, she has a 2023 Volkswagen Tigwan. >> Nice. >> Very great. >> And paid for in cash.

>> Paid for. No, nothing.

>> That's amazing. So, she's got a three-year-old car. You've got a 12y old car. And uh that's we found in the millionaire study the average millionaire drives a 4-year-old car with 41,000 m on it and the top brands were Toyota and Honda.

>> Yeah. >> Which is pretty wild. So you guys are square in the middle of that. And you guys have four-year degrees, both of you or more? >> Both of us? Yeah. >> Okay. Were you guys super smart? What were your GPA? Do you remember?

>> Uh I I'll just say I finished my G my I finished my my degree with a GPA of around 3.7. Uh my wife's was higher.

She's a smart cookie.

>> This is impressive. >> I know. That is impressive. That's amazing. Well, Kurt, what would you say to someone that's listening? Maybe it's a newlywed couple, one of them still in school, maybe they're starting off just like you and your wife did. You know, how would you say what are the principles that you would tell people? This is what you have to do if you want to start building real wealth.

>> Live on less than you less than you make. Make it do. Use it up. Do without.

Those were the guiding principles that we live by. >> Wait, say it again. Use it up. What' you say? >> Use it up. Use it up. So if if you've got something, use it. >> Don't waste. >> If you Yeah. Don't Don't wait. Don't be wasteful. Uh do without. Meaning that if

it's not absolutely necessary, >> don't do it. Um and uh yeah, you what is

it? Use it up. Do without and make it do. So repair repair as needed. Um and

make what you have last. take care of what you have so that you don't have to keep going and buying new things.

>> Yes. >> That's old school. That's definitely like a grandma and grandpa principle right there. You know, coming out of like a great depression. Like we're not going to get new stuff. That's crazy. This works just fine. We'll fix it up.

>> Well, I love it cuz you can get in the habit if something just kind of is off a little bit. Yeah, we'll just get a new one. We'll just get a new one. >> Get one on Amazon. It'll be here in two hours. >> Yeah. And you end up you do you end up spending so much doing that. Okay. So, Kurt, would you say now where you guys are, do you are you enjoying your money?

Do you feel like you guys are having fun?

>> Um, not yet because we still have a mortgage and so that, you know, the the fun is is coming when that's when that's done and gone. >> Uh, but um, you know, right now we're still work we're still working the process >> and but for me it's the it's the piece that comes from, you know, it's like we've got six months of an emergency fund so that if you know, because we're both we're both self-employed, if our income is variable, it's like, you know what, that's okay. We've got we've got comfort and peace.

>> Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. That um that

padding is very real between you and life. I mean there is something that does give a lot of oh you can sleep at night. The stress is down because if something happens we're going to be okay. We have this this money set aside.

So how much longer till the house is paid off?

>> Uh 5 years. Okay. The the goal the goal

is debtree by 50. >> The ripe age of 50. And by then you'll probably be worth closer to 3 million.

Maybe closer to 3.5.

>> If things keep if things keep trending the way they are. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I could see that happening. >> Well done, Kurt. Well, >> thanks for the inspiration. >> Yeah, you guys are awesome. Thanks for calling in. Always your stories. Yeah, definitely um kind of give a boost to people out there to see real life people doing real life stuff. So, thanks

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Our scripture of the day is from 1

Timothy 6:5-7. This is one of my favorites, George. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we have

brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it.

>> Bob Marley said, "Spend life with who

makes you happy, not who you want to have to impress." Oh, >> it's pretty good. But yeah, the godliness with contentment is great gain. That is that's big. You brought nothing into the world.

You can't I saw someone I couldn't I couldn't quite live with this philosophy because it's a little bit too yolo for me, but it was like on Instagram was a meme and it was this woman. She was like at the beach like had a drink or something and she was like, you know, no one uh basically like in the graveyard you're not going to you don't care if you're the tannest or the the have the best skin, skinniest, biggest bank account. like she listed all these things that we worry about. She's like go enjoy your life like eat the pizza, you know, take the trip, do the thing.

And I thought, you know, it's a little bit of that like >> and you are a very experiences over things person. Yes. >> Which is wise.

It's one of the best ways to spend money is on experiences with people you love.

>> You love. Yes, we've heard that. Arthur Brooks talks about that a lot.

>> And there is something to >> Rachel's using that to justify every next trip. She's like, Winston, it's science. We have to go.

>> We have to go. This is where we should spend our money. I'm telling you, it's what everyone remembers. It's the fun big meal.

It's the whole, you know, at my house, we had all the personalities and our spouses. It's a great time. You guys were so generous. >> We have a great dinner.

I don't know. All of it. There's There's something about Yeah. living.

>> You could have bought a purse, but instead you said, "You know what? Let's have a great meal with friends." >> And I can't take the purse with me into the next life. But I'll But I'll take the memories. >> Could be in your Costco casket in there with you.

But >> what good's that going to do?

So, I love it. Yep. godliness with contentment, great gain. You didn't bring anything to the world. You can't take anything out. All right, let's go to the phones and we're going to go to Hunter in Fresno, California. Hi,

Hunter.

>> Hi. >> Hello. Hello. Welcome to the show. How can we help today?

>> Uh, so my wife and I, we are a little

bit of uh we just got married about a

year ago. Um, we we started off really

good financially. Uh we're making a

little over 100,000.

Um well, we kind of added rack racked up

some debt. Uh we bought a uh new truck.

Um so now we're I have about $50,000 on that. >> And then we also >> That's a nice truck.

>> It It's It is a nice truck. Um but we

also got a camper.

>> How much is that? We're about 20,000 20,000 what we still owe on it.

>> Okay. >> What other debt? >> Um the up uh so other than that, the

only other debt is we just bought a house about a month ago. Um and so now

we added that $2,800 payment onto our

monthly payments.

>> And what's your monthly take-home pay?

>> Monthly takehome pay, it kind of ranges.

Um, it ranges anywhere from uh it can be

anywhere from 5,000 to roughly about u I

would say about 9 10,000.

>> Whoa.

Okay. Well, that that would be more than 100,000 if you're if you're fairly consistently getting, you know, 8 n grand a month takeh home.

>> Well, yeah. I mean, uh, this past two months, we've only been taking in about 5,000. Uh but a couple months prior we

were >> How are you guys how are you guys surviving? >> Yeah, your mortgage is over half your pay for many months. >> And you got a camper loan or payment in the truck.

>> So the truck payment is 1,300.

>> Oh my gosh. And what's the camper payment?

>> A,000. >> So you got 2,300 going to toys that are going down in value every day.

>> Yep.

So, okay. But my thing is, if you make $5,000 a month, that's $5,100 just in payments. How are you guys making your light bill and food? Like, do you guys have savings?

>> We do. We have uh we have roughly about

So, we have roughly about 20,000 in our

savings account. >> Okay. And you're just going to be draining that a little bit at a time to live off of, >> right? Well, so that's right. Now, the

reason that fluctuates is I I'm currently in school. And so with my construction business, you know, there's sometimes, you know, I I'll get a job and I can work around school and it I do great. And then there's other times it's, you know, school gets caught up and I I don't have as much time to work.

>> Yeah. But you bought a camper.

>> Yeah. It feels like a bad time to buy a $50,000 truck >> and a camper. >> And a camper that you probably don't have time to use. Hunter, do you just feel crazy? Like, do you feel like what did we do?

>> I I Yeah. >> What does your wife think about all this? >> Let's make a Let's Yeah. >> Is she like, "Hey, we got to get out of this situation." Or she like, "It's fine. He's got it under control." >> Uh, both. I guess she uh So, she I mean, you

could tell she gets um uh nervous or

frustrated every now and then from it.

Uh but she's also uh she realizes that

We're not I guess we're not we're not at

the end of the road yet. So we we can still come out of this and so she's a little bit more comfortable with that.

>> Okay. >> Um so yeah, we're definitely we're

definitely on trying >> probably 9 to 10 months months away of having nothing though. You know what I mean? Like I think I y'all don't it doesn't feel this I don't feel an urgency necessarily. And so that 20,000

is gonna go really quick because the months you do make the 5,000, you're already a $100 underwater, right? So you take that hundred and then you gota, you know, you guys are probably going out to eat, you're stressed with school, so you're, you know, you're doing this and I mean, you guys probably are not on a very strict budget, are you?

>> Um, right now we we actually past couple months we have gone on to a strict budget. Um, we don't really eat out

maybe once every couple months. Oh, Hunter. We have nothing. >> Really?

>> If I looked at your bank account statement >> overnight, over two months, over 60 days, you don't eat out except for once out of 60 days. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Yes, ma'am. >> All right.

I'm going to take your word for it, Hunter. I feel like you're an honest man. >> I will tell you what I would do if I was in your shoes as >> I feel like a Starbucks run is probably in there somewhere. >> Maybe for her at least.

>> Quick Chick-fil-A nugget. You know, >> you guys need some vices right now. This is crazy. Okay.

>> Okay. Let's make a plan. Make a plan for Hunter.

Okay, fine. That's fine. That's fine. >> So, I'm Hunter. I'm a newlywed. Been married a year. I have a cool, great income. >> What are you going to do, George? >> I am selling the truck and camper tomorrow. Like, I'm taking pictures tonight. I'm listing it tomorrow.

>> And your construction ego just plummets.

>> And any amount you're underwater on, you're going to use that $20,000 in savings to cover it and get yourself a beater car. >> Oh, okay. It's working now. And then what's freed up, George? How much money you got? You just got a $2,300 a month raise, my man. >> So those $5,000 months turned in to 72.

>> Now we can breathe. >> Oh my gosh, George. What a plan. All right, >> this is great. This is a solvable problem. >> Then what are we going to do? >> Then we need an emergency fund cuz you likely will deplete that 20K to cover the underwater difference plus getting you a beater car. And so now our job is to really build some financial stability once we don't have debt to get three to six months of expenses.

>> How's that sound, Hunter?

You'll make it sound a lot easier than what it is. >> I feel like you're not willing to sell this truck or the camper.

>> Tell me why. >> The camper I'm actually I the camper I would get rid of it in a heartbeat, >> but >> um I told my wife about selling it.

>> What was that? >> Yeah, I said and they can be tough to sell.

>> Well, they're tough to sell and it actually came from her parents and so she's she's a little bit more stuck to it >> um than I am. Don't have don't have like attachments to campers.

>> We got to get attachments to to healthy financial foundations. That's what we're looking for here. Or Hunter, you guys can here's the deal. You know, you called the show.

I feel like I'm we're giving a little tough love, but the truth is you can stay in this cycle. You guys can stay with campers and trucks and payments. >> You can live in a truck and a camper, which will be your future. >> No, but this is No, but like this is normal, Hunter.

This is normal. And you guys could go on for years and years and years.

Something's going to happen. One of you is going to want to stay home. You guys are going to be in your early 30s. The roof's going to be leaking and you have no money. And you look back and think, what have we been doing? We've been working our butts off for seven years.

And we can't even do what we want with our life. Why? Because in our early 20s, we just, you know, our mid20s, we didn't make decisions. These are these aren't hard decisions. It's hard for the ego.

The ego hates it. But I'm telling you that you guys can stay normal. But you called the show and this show is far from normal. We are all about getting out of debt, making deep deep sacrifices, Hunter, in order for you guys to get ahead. In the future, you guys can get a great truck in a camper.

But when you can afford it, you can't afford it. You can't you you don't have the money for this stuff. And then you rushed into a house and all of it. So, say it out loud, own it, and go, "Hey, babe. I'm sorry. I screwed up." >> Yep. All right. What a great show, you guys. Thanks to everyone in the booth. Thank you, George. And remember, there's ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 31. Debt Robs Your Life of Margin | May 11, 2026


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| **Video ID** | `lejr2ze684A` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lejr2ze684A) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:32:55 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey [music] Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

I'm Jade Warshaw. [music] Next to me, George camel.

>> Hey, love it. >> That was not a sound effect. That was actually me. >> That came straight from the camel's mouth. Hey, >> nailed [music] it. >> I know. I did nail that. And we are going to nail it here with Marie who is in Cleveland, Ohio. So, what's going on, Marie? How can George and I help today?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, unfortunately, my husband of

46 years old, uh, we were married 21

years, he died suddenly 10 months ago.

>> Oh my goodness. >> And, um, >> yeah, it's been really hard, but we are trusting in God to take care of us. Um

he we um we have three teenagers, 17,

15, and 13 that I'm now raising. Um my

husband was the main breadwinner, and I was a stay-at-home mom with the kids. I homeschool them, and I'm wondering what

um how much money I need to have in the bank moving forward if I want to buy a

home. We have no debt. Uh, we own both

of our vehicles, but I am raising three teenagers now by myself and having to figure out an income. The only thing that adds a interesting twist to this is that um my husband's uh the company that

he worked with, they're very generous,

unbelievably generous, and they have offered to continue his salary for a year. >> Wow. Wow. >> Um >> I know I I am still absolutely blown

away by how God has lavishedly taken

care of us, but I just don't know what to do. Um another situation that's been an incredible blessing is that someone has offered to pay our rent. Um we currently just rent a home um through the rest of this year as well. So, I am in a position where I can save quite a

bit of money um and potentially pay for

a house in cash. I just am wondering what would be a wise decision to have in the bank if I do find a property.

>> Marie, was there um I'm so so sorry for your loss. Uh first off, um was there

life insurance at all?

Yes, there was half a million.

>> Half a million. Okay. And have you received that?

>> Um I have I have it in a uh like a a

savings account, you know, a high yield savings account. >> Okay. So >> So it is drawing a little bit of interest. >> Okay, good. And that's just where it should be. I I So I hear two main questions. I hear, you know, how do I basically plan for life and budgeting

monthtomonth as the years go by? And also, how do I set myself up to purchase a home in cash? Is is that right?

>> That is correct. >> Okay. [snorts] Um, so I love the generosity that you're experiencing with the folks around you, the year of salary, the year of rent. Um, what I

would do is I would go home tonight.

We'll send you every dollar at no cost to you. And I would go through and I

would just budget out what my expenses are. And I would not right now play in uh the year of rent. I would still put the the rent on there just so I can see what it is because instead of paying the rent, you'll just pay it to yourself in savings. Um and that way you'll get used to that muscle of this money comes out and even though right now it's going to savings, you'll you won't get used to spending it monthtomonth. And I think that that's a good thing. Um, and you

can even keep your husband's salary on there since they're going to be, you know, be paying you a year's worth of salary. And then after that, I'd say,

okay, with this life insurance, can I draw the same amount of my husband's salary and just keep that budget going?

So, what did your husband earn?

Well, um he was he was self-employed and

so he did have to pull out quite a bit quite a bit for taxes and he didn't have um very many write- off expenses, but he was earning a uh gross about 140 a year.

>> Okay. And that's what he took home into you all's personal budget.

>> Well, that was that was gross. So after pulling out a tithe and taxes,

um I would say probably more like around

90 or 100 thousand.

>> Okay, cool. So if you can, you know, look at that monthly amount and say, "Okay, this feels good, you know, for me to live off that amount. So that's going to be somewhere around uh $6,000 a

month." So you'll get to test that out and see how that feels. And in the meantime, I would George get with a smart vester pro and start looking at the best ways to invest uh this life insurance. >> Yeah. What they can do is look at all of the assets in the picture and then show you projections of how what kind of runway you have for this money to work for you because if it's invested, it's in the market.

So, it could go down temporarily, could go up.

And that doesn't tell us that much. We don't know what the future holds. But investing it for the long haul is going to do you way better than just keeping it in a high yield savings account. Now, can you replace $140,000 income off 500

grand for the rest of your life? No. But can it buy you a whole lot of time for those maybe teens to get out of the house and maybe you have an encore career? Absolutely.

>> So, >> so would you guys think maybe that it's not a good idea to look at purchasing a house just yet? I would say for cash, I

don't think so because you really need that nest egg until you can secure what your job is going to look like in the workforce because to George's point, it's not enough to draw 100 thou $140,000 off of uh continuously.

>> Do you guys have any other retirement accounts or any other savings to speak of?

>> Um we had he had a very minimal 401k. it

was only around 35,000 and then I have um I mean grand total

with everything put together 401k Roth all that it was probably only maybe a

little bit over 100,000.

>> Okay. Okay. And then anything in savings currently that you had aside from the 500,000 payout?

>> Uh not much. We I have managed with

everything right now I'm sitting at about 592,000.

Okay. Well, you can look at it this way.

If you bought a house in cash, that would alleviate having to pay a mortgage or rent. Now, you'd still have taxes, insurance, maintenance, and repairs, all of that to pay for forever with a home.

And so, it's going to cost you a pretty penny to run this household regardless.

But, I like the idea of you sitting down with that Smart Investor Pro and saying, "Hey, when would the right time be based on our life season with teens in the house? Should we just continue renting?

What are you paying for rent right now?

>> Um about $1,100 a month.

>> That's amazing. That is so much cheaper than you could do as a homeowner. >> I know. >> When you're >> I know. And and it's it's a great property as well. Yeah. >> So, I would just hang on to that right now until you know that, hey, I have this job secured. I have this income. I can support being a homeowner with real money versus draining this >> this sort of nest egg.

>> Yeah. Do you have any ideas of what you might want to do for work? Have you been had any free mental space to ideulate on that?

>> Um, so I do have a background in nursing, but I it was pretty traumatic

the way my husband died and I just I can't go back into the hospital right now. So >> that's so avoid >> Yeah. trying to avoid [music] all of that. >> That's totally understandable.

and you know, you have the right to take your time and and think through this. And luckily, you've your friends and family have bought you a year's worth of time for that. [music] We're going to send you Ken Coleman's um uh Get Clear assessment. It's actually find the work you're wired to do is a book and inside of it is the Get [music] Clear Career Assessment.

[music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Let's head back to the phone lines where we [music] have Max who's in Madison, Wisconsin. Max, how can we help out today?

Hey guys, I'm uh moving jobs at the end of this month and I'm wondering if I should um use up a good amount of my emergency fund to purchase my stock options from the current company I'm at um before heading I've got a 90-day window before heading to the new company. >> Interesting. 90 days going to a new company. How much do you have in your emergency fund that you're thinking about using on this single stock?

I have uh 32,000 and the stock options,

there's 4,000 of them and their exercise price is around $5. So, be about 20 grand. Okay.

>> What would you do with the stocks afterwards?

>> Well, it's not a publicly traded company yet, so it's kind of a, you know, just an intent on their on their future. Um,

you know, kind of earnings public.

Yeah, that's kind of the gamble and the kind of, you know, thing I'm weighing there. I I think they're on a pretty good trajectory. Um, it's about 300 million ARR, so it's, you know, something that they've had a lot of discussion about and have plans to do in the future. >> Um, so that's kind of >> So, if they do go public, it's it's going to be a big payday for you. What does your 20k potentially turn into if they go public?

Yeah, I don't know what they would go public at, you know, probably maybe 15 to $20 a share estimates.

>> So, you could three to fourx your money would be the hope couple years from now.

>> Are you um what baby step are you in? Do you have any debt?

>> Yeah, just mortgage.

>> You know, I got to tell you, if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't do this. Um it feels like a gamble. And I think that you could take the same money and invest

it and know that you're going to get the return on that on that money. Um, and I

certainly wouldn't want to drain my savings knowing that I'm going to go through a 90-day dry spell uh with no income. George, >> I won't have a 90-day drive spell.

There's just a 90-day purchase. Could you come up with that money outside of the emergency fund or close to it?

Yeah, I could um it would have to come from probably Roth or >> No, not from retirement, but from your future income or any other assets that you could that are liquid.

>> Um, yeah, I possibly could.

>> I just like the idea of you setting a guy a guardrail for yourself of saying, "Hey, I'm not going to go less than 3 months of my emergency fund, but I'm willing to drain it down to 3 months and use future income in order to purchase the options if you're going to do it." And that way you're not stuck in alerts cuz Murphy will come knocking, man. As soon as you buy those stocks, you're going to have a $15,000 emergency. It's just how life works, >> right? >> So I I'm not mad if you do [clears throat] this.

>> There's not a there's not an all or nothing exercise option on them.

>> Oh, that's good. Then you're going to go if they do go public, you're going to go, "Dang it, I should have got all 20.

I could have made more." There's there's always going to be that element to it of the what if. So if if you feel strongly about this company and even then once you do once they do go public I would then move those stocks into a mutual fund or index fund versus keeping it in a single stock.

>> Correct. Right. >> Uh just a question. Why are you leaving the company if you're expecting them to do well and go public and all this?

>> I have a better offer at a a separate company. Um and it comes with 140,000 of

of RSUs and they're already publicly traded. um same investing schedule over four years, but you know, it's a stock

that's >> pretty pretty well traded right now. And and so I think it's just a better opportunity also for my career.

>> And and maybe one other question I should have asked early. How much do you currently have in retirement?

>> Um my right probably around 350 350K

across 401k, Roth, and and others.

>> [clears throat] >> I mean, yeah, I I can get on board with what George said. I think that if you can find a way to either cash flow this or not go beyond the three months, I think that that's a fair I think that's a fair play on this.

>> Otherwise, you're going to call us back three years from now and say, "You guys told me not to get it, and I could have made $100,000." >> I know. You know, it's like one of those things, though. There's so when I when I

look at all the companies out there who

are trying to go public and and make that transition, it's like then you go, "Well, gosh, this really is a tossup.

You really don't know." >> Yeah. I've got a friend who's in that exact situation. They have all of these these paper stocks that aren't worth anything yet, but one day they could be, and it could be their future nest egg, or it could be nothing. Like, that's basic.

Now, we're just playing the lottery. >> Yeah. It's a It's a lottery play. And at that point, because of his baby, let's kind of break this down what the logic is.

Because of his baby step, um, in many ways and because of the net worth that he's built, uh, I think in many ways he could take that money. It's like buying a car. Can you take this and kind of just burn it and it not really affect you? I think he's right on the line of that being the case.

>> Yeah, he makes a great income. If he was in debt, I'm not going to say, well, don't pay off the debt stock. But because he is in a good spot, good financial foundation, it's it's a risk that he can actually take. >> Yeah, I agree with that.

All right, very very good question.

there is not a Oh, there it is. Dylan is

in Baton Rouge. Here we go. I was about to say, all right, Dylan, how can we help? >> Hi, I'm uh I'm just wondering if I should drain most of my savings to pay off our only non-mortgage debt.

um drain most of your savings to pay off your only non-mortgage debt. I'm going to go with yes, but tell us more so that we can run this thing back and make it interesting. [laughter] >> Okay. Um well, the debt the only non-mortgage debt is uh my truck which is at $24,524

is left owed on it and we have

about $39,000 total in savings. >> What kind of savings? It's not retirement, is it?

>> No, it uh 31,000 is in a high yield

savings account and then about 6,000 is

in a regular savings.

>> Okay. It's a no-brainer for me. I'm paying off the truck yesterday. Why haven't you paid it off so far?

>> Um well, mainly because my wife is apprehensive about it because she sees

the the amount that we have in savings and dropping it down drastically scares her. She wasn't apprehensive when you got a $40,000 truck that went down in value as soon as you drove it off the lot with a giant payment. >> We weren't married at the time.

>> Oh, okay. I see.

>> She goes, "Hey, that that was a a previous life. That's his problem." >> And now it's it's y'all's savings. And she goes, "I don't want to see that gone to your past, you know, mistakes."

>> Right. Right. >> Yeah. I would do it and rebuild because the truth is on paper >> in an accounting spreadsheet, you're not you don't actually have 39,000. Yeah, you got 15. >> You got 15. And so even left with 15,000, you're in a great spot. You're completely debtree. 15,000 in the bank and then you can rebuild your savings in no time. Even with just your truck payment. What's your truck payment?

>> 626 a month.

>> You just got a raise. Tell your wife, "Hey, I just got an extra 625 bucks a

month net take-home pay." >> Man, >> she's gonna be real happy.

>> Yeah. >> And she's How'd you do that? Uh, I paid off the truck. >> Mhm.

And the truth will be told how if if she's willing to immediately take that entire $629 and put it back into savings or if suddenly there becomes a need for,

I don't know, some new jewelry or like a nice bag or [laughter] >> Yeah, that's $7,500 extra you have in your budget every year.

>> She wants a trip to Disney. So >> ah >> 7,500 bucks will get you there for probably three days, but it'll get you there. >> Right. >> My wife too. We'll go at the same time, Dylan. How about that? It sounds great.

Can't wait to meet you. [laughter] >> Congrats on the truck payoff.

>> Yes. And thank you for the question.

>> I feel like you know the old boat quote, the best day of your life is the day you buy the boat and the next best day is the day you sell the boat. >> Listen, the maintenance loan. Yeah.

>> The the best of your life is the day you get that truck and the next best one is when you sell that you sell it or you pay it off. >> I'll take the payoff. I'll take the payoff. >> He likes the truck. And here's the other parameter. If if all the things with wheels and motors is more than half your annual income, you got a problem.

>> Yeah. And and there's a reason that we say that because vehicles are going down in value constantly, especially if it's something that's brand new. Oh my goodness, never buy a brand new car, people. Unless you're a millionaire, the amount of value that's lost just in year 1 is astronomical. And so we're really,

these are parameters. These are kind of rules of thumb that we we live by and teach by here. But it's so good. Uh so

say it again, George. If the >> you want to make sure that everything with wheels and motors in your life, that's bikes, cars, trucks, boats, you name it. No more than half your household income is tied up in those things. If you make 50 grand, no more than 25 grand.

You make [music] 100 grand, no more than 50 grand, >> just so you don't have too much of your world wrapped up in things going down in value. >> That's right. You can take the hit.

So that again when you take that hit of depreciation because you will take the hit like Mike Tyson you can actually it's a nick. It's a nick.

[music]

[music]

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Or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Shannon is in Denver, Colorado. Shannon, how can George and I help you out today?

>> Hi. [clears throat] My daughter recently got um out of a relationship that she was in for about 3 years. While she was in that relationship, they acquired an

enormous amount of debt together, although they were not married. We have about 70 80,000 in vehicle loans, 15,000

in credit card, and about 20,000 in um a

business loan. Her boyfriend had quit his job to when the owner sold the

business so he could branch out and open his own. And the majority of the vehicles are upside down on their loans because he took additional equity to uh start

his new business.

Um now that they are no longer together,

she is a co-signer on all of this stuff.

>> Oh boy. He is a single mom of two

and um he has no verifiable or

income because the business is so new and he is in with a partner. She is the only one that has verifiable income and

it's not that much. So, we're not sure.

She's um contacted a couple attorneys.

Nobody wants to really work with her to get it to where her name is off these loans. Um, I know it can be very difficult, but we're wondering if she should probably file bankruptcy to get her out of all of this debt that she actually has no benefit of.

>> Oh boy. Um, and you've already run this

by attorneys to see if there's anything there to maybe legally split this or do something and and nobody will touch it.

They really don't want to because where he is the primary loan holder and she is

the co-signer, even if they get a

judgment, >> the banks don't necessarily want to take her off as the co-signer.

>> Well, they know how risky this is. They like her on there. They want someone else on the hook.

>> Um, >> absolutely. >> Um, tell us about the cars. You said they're both upside down. How how badly and how many are there?

>> [clears throat] >> There currently are three vehicles. Um I

believe it's a 22 Chevy Silverado that has about 50,000 that's owed on it. In

addition to the vehicle loan, there was also a trailer for a motorcycle as well as motorcycle. I do not believe that has

extra equity. I believe that is just straight for those those three pieces of property. They have a Hyundai, a 24

Hyundai um that is only valued at

33,000, but they got an additional 7,000

to put into his business.

>> She had a Toyota Corolla that was paid off. It's an older Corolla.

>> Um they went in and got a $9,000 loan on

it. The car is not worth, but maybe about 4,000.

>> So they owe nine and it's worth four.

>> Correct. And let's go back to the the Hyundai. She owes 33. What's the Hyundai worth?

>> It's worth 33. They owe 40.

>> Okay. Um and then let's go back to the

first one, the $50,000 one. They owe 50.

And what's that one worth?

>> It's probably worth around 45 to 50. It

is a very nice Chevy Silverado Club pickup. >> And you're telling me the trailer and the motorcycle are worth nothing?

Um, it's a dirt bike trailer.

>> Okay. >> For uh racing dirt bikes, it's it would maybe be worth $3,000 in our area in the market. >> Yes, we need that. And what about the motorcycle or the dirt bike? [snorts]

>> That's that's probably the the motorcycle and the trailer might bring four or five out of them >> to combined them together.

>> Okay. >> Correct. So, what I'd want to know, um,

what what I'd be seeking out next is if

she can sell these items, uh, being the

co-signer, and that's what I'd want a judge to approve. Hey, we can't find this guy. We can't track him down. He has no income. This is destroying her credit. Can we have the ability for

where he's at? >> Okay. >> He will not cooperate.

>> Right? And that's why I'm saying, can we get a judge to order it?

Okay, >> that's what I'd check on. I don't know if they will because what's taken place is totally legal. She co-signed on on on debt, which is honestly and I mean you you already know this is just one of the worst things that you can do because you're on the line. That's the whole point. If this guy doesn't pay, I'm saying I will. That's what you're saying when you cosign. So there's nothing

except him being a scumbag. There's nothing illegal going on here. there's nothing quote wrong going on here. Um,

so it's going to be hard, but I would at least try to say I'd try to go before a judge and say, "This person's not paying. >> Here's what it's doing to me. Can we sell these assets so that we can Mhm.

clear that >> that is an issue we're running up against is he is making monthly payments but at the rate that he's making these monthly payments if if he ever stops she

doesn't know until it's too late >> if he um her name's on the vehicles as

well um so she can't go get something

independently of him and he has come and taken her vehicle while she was at work.

>> Well, how can he do that?

Is she driving one of these? She >> has an extra key.

>> Oh, she's driving one of these. She's driving the Corolla.

>> She's driving the Hyundai at this time.

>> Okay. >> Are they both on the insurance for all these vehicles?

>> From what we understand, yes. But at any time, he could take her off the insurance and she would have no knowledge.

>> Why is that? If she's also on it as well, >> because they are not currently together.

It's his insurance agent. Um, >> is is he trying to actively destroy her life at this point? Like where where's his head at? >> Basically, they they have he left her

one month after they had a child together. He has not ordered to pay um

he pays [clears throat] $100 a month for child support. That's what >> And they have told her ordered by the courts >> if she can Yes. if she contests it

because he does not have verifiable income, she may end up having to pay him. >> This is a nightmare. I'm so sorry.

>> 100%. Which is why we're wondering if

she files bankruptcy, would that get her out from under as co-signer from all of this? So, at least she doesn't end up with all this on her lap.

>> Well, the bankruptcy is not going to help much cuz they're going to liquidate all the cars and if they get repoed, she's going to be on the hook for the difference. they're going to sell it at auction for nothing and then she's going to owe even more while her financial

life gets destroyed for seven to 10 years from the bankruptcy. So, I don't love that option. I would try to see how

we can get her out of this these individual situations one by one and get her income up enough to where she could pay them if she had to.

>> Okay. >> And I would try to get up. You're about 15 grand underwater on all these vehicles. Obviously, she needs something reliable to drive and obviously we need the ability to find this car and be able to sell it, which that's going to be the difficult part cuz he's got most of these toys, doesn't he?

>> Um, [clears throat] he has everything. He h she has access to the Hyundai and the Toyota. Um, but

you know, she would love to sell the Toyota. She can't because of this loan that's on it. >> Um, she has told him, "Come get the Hyundai. I will go out and buy something that, you know, I can afford so I can make my own payment, but she can't with her credit wrapped up and all of that.

>> Yeah. Well, she could drive the Corolla, right? If she sold the Hyundai, she could do that. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. So, if we at least get out of those two, it solves some problems here cuz that's that at least alleviates some of this pain when you owe 33 on one and nine on the other, which means you need to come up with 12 grand to get out from underwater on this and then you can keep the Corolla. >> Yeah. And what about the credit cards?

Are those still actively going? Because I'd want to make sure that those are shut down and that more money is not able to be rung up on those.

>> I would freeze her credit so that no accounts can be opened under her name and social security number as well.

>> Mhm. And the same thing with this business loan. Her biggest job right now is to work hard to save. I mean, she is on the hook for this money. So, [music] let's let's earn $20,000 and start knocking out debt and make sure it can't come back to haunt us later on by freezing the credit.

>> [music]

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Right back to the phone lines where Harrison is in Augusta, Georgia. Hi

Harrison, what's up in your world?

>> Yes, thank you all so much for taking my call. So my wife and I are in our late30s with two kids under three. I

make about 3,000 a year and my wife makes about 30,000 and together we've got about $100,000 in non-mortgage debt.

mostly vehicles and credit cards. And after doing our budget, um realizing we're running about a $2,200 a month deficit, >> and I I feel completely trapped. I have no idea what to do. I've realized we've built our our life outside of our financial reality, and it's just kind of snuck up on us. And I just I could use some help. >> Yeah. My G Listen, I'm gonna tell you right now, I gotta believe that a lot of that red is in the cars. Am I wrong or am I right?

>> Yes, you're right. >> So, tell us about the cars. How many are there? And tell us what the payments are. Tell us what you owe on them.

>> Yeah, so I have two vehicles. I have a truck that I owe about 14,000 on. That

payment's about 30 um $325 a month.

>> Okay. >> And then I have a SUV that's worth that I owe about $30,000 on. And that monthly

payment is $560 a month. Okay. Honestly,

I'm going to tell you that's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Although, I still don't like the car payment. What else is sending you guys, you know, over $1,000 over? When you look at the budget, what do you find are the key contributors?

>> So, it's mostly I mean, I'm paying $1,950 a month for daycare.

>> Um, and that's killing me. And then my mortgage is a little over $2,100 a

month. So, I really I really put myself in a house that we probably should not have bought. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> what's your actual take-home pay every month?

>> 6,500. >> Oh, wow. >> That feels low. Is is investing coming out?

>> Um, so it was I was putting about 5%

into my 401. Um, I just actually paused

that this week. Um, I'm trying to, you know, do whatever I can to come up with some cash. downloaded the Every Dollar app and then kind of going through that and just trying to figure out find some solutions here. >> So, you said you have a h 100,000 of non-mortgage debt. I'm I'm counting 44,000 in car loans. Does that mean you have $56,000 in credit cards?

>> So, I have about 25,000 in credit cards.

Um I have about 10,000 in a personal loan and about 5,000 in medical debt.

>> Okay. Have you and your wife sat down and and made an every dollar budget and just kind of put this all on paper to get the reality of it?

>> So, I have and you know, I've tried to talk with her multiple times and and she kind of shuts down. Um, and it's hard for her to kind of see the reality. And, you know, >> is she overwhelmed >> and trying to absolutely she's overwhelmed. Well, the the truth is if she's making 30,000 after taxes, after everything, that's not covering daycare >> hard. It's I mean, it's it's it's breaking even. >> 30,000. Yeah. Like that 30,000 is from a

photography business. It's all under the table. Um but you're right, it's it's

barely covering daycare. >> But is that what's keeping her I guess what I'm saying is regardless of how it's being paid or who she's working for, she's out making money. And is that the thing that's keeping her from obviously I'm not saying everybody has to be a stay-at-home wife. Just hear that. I'm just saying I'm trying to solve a math problem here. If she were to stay home, um that's something that

might pull this back a little bit and maybe she can stay home and do photography and just shift those hours to where do you see what I'm saying?

There's more of a benefit to it.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Cuz if she could do that nights and weekends and watch the kids during the day, well, now we have a problem solved because we've kept some income in the door while getting back our daycare money, $1,950 a month, which gets you to more like a $300 deficit. And that's without paying off any of your debts. >> Have you guys talked about that?

>> We have talked about it and honestly, we've tried it a couple times and it just did not go very well. she was she

struggled with keeping both kids at home and and trying to work. And so, you know, we kind of came up with a plan that, hey, you know, this is a new business. Let's get the kids in daycare and give you a real shot to really grow this business and see where it can go.

>> How long has it been? You know, so she's she's only been doing this about 6 months. >> Okay. So, here's where I'm at with this.

Um, there's three things there's three options on the table here. Um, and a couple of them are a must. Number one, we have to sell the vehicles. Uh, at least one of them, at least a $30,000 SUV, um, has to go out the door. The

other thing is she either needs to choose between I'm going to do this uh part-time and stay home with the kids and try to bring in as much as I can in part-time hours or I'm going to find a

job or make this job grow in a hurry to

be to where I'm making more than $30,000 because you guys are and and the same goes for you too. Like you got to find ways to get your income up. even if it's side hustling, if it's overtime, you guys are up against uh some very scary

numbers here.

>> And you cannot and and mind you, we're

not even talking about paying off debt yet. We're just talking about getting you out of the red. We're we haven't even found them. These are just things to get you out of the red. This is not extra margin. And >> just baseline where you can cover all the bills cuz right now, are you using the credit cards to fund that gap?

>> Yes. Yeah, that's what we've been doing.

But see, it's coming to a head because my limits are about up and I, you know, at some point it's all going to come crashing down. >> And that's why I say it's not a and that's why I say speaking with her, this is not it's not personal. It's not h having to do with anything with her photography business. This is math and this is numbers and this is us adulting and saying this is what must be done in this season.

>> We need to go from I'm scared to I'm angry cuz that tells me now we can solve the problem. And so if you can get her there, you know her better than anyone, and just level with her and say, "Hey, listen. I know I'm overwhelmed, too, but we're going to get through this together.

We have the every dollar budget. And if you don't have the premium version, we'll gift it to you, Harrison." If you hang on the line, that'll connect to your bank account. That'll give you all the personalized recommendations. And I think once you see the reality and you can look past the fear and the overwhelm, you guys will go, "Okay, we can see a path out." And you just got to focus on one thing at a time. That's the baby steps. $1,000 cash. Do you have that in the bank right now?

>> I do. >> Good. >> Then it's going to be attacking all of our debts, smallest to largest. So, what's your smallest debt? What's the next smallest balance you have?

>> Um, it's about $420.

>> Great. Now, can we knock that out if we worked extra and cut our lifestyle down to nothing?

>> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. >> So, then at least you freed up that one payment and so now you see some light at the end of this tunnel and it's going to be a slog. I mean, this might be 3 to four years for you guys on this journey based on your income to debt ratio.

>> Yeah. Harrison, what do you owe on this SUV? You said you owe 30, but what's it worth? >> It's only worth about 21.

So, I'm underwater.

>> Okay. Um, deck gum it.

>> The truck The truck uh only owed 14 and

it's worth probably 16.

>> Okay. So, there there's some money there. Um, I would probably sell that one then and take the 2,000 and

uh buy a cheap truck. >> Uh-huh. Put a little money with it. See if you can cash flow a couple more thousand so maybe you can get a $4 or $5,000 deal. Um, >> that might mean kind of pausing the baby steps for a second to stack up that cash to get a a used car to replace that

truck to get you from A to B. >> Right. >> And what about your work? Let's find ways to quick make quick money for you. What do you do for a living?

So, I work for a building supply company running inventory and warehousing and then I also teach pottery classes on the side. >> Okay. Does your does the main job offer overtime?

>> No, I'm on salary.

>> Okay. >> And [snorts] what about the pottery? Is that is that a great side hustle for you or did you just pick it because you like it? Because if it doesn't pay a whole lot, we need to shift to doing something that really pays. >> Um, it could be. I mean, I've been doing it 20 years. I'm really really good at it. I just haven't spent much time doing it cuz it's, you know, with the two kids at home and >> Right. >> So, what do you make a month on average doing that?

>> Doing pottery. >> Yeah. >> About 600. >> And how many hours? >> All that's I'm working two hours once a

week, four weeks.

>> Okay. >> So, it's about eight hours a month.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think we can pour gasoline on that. I think we could pump it up into high gear.

pretty good hourly rate on that if you can do more of that. >> Uh-huh. And if you can't do more of that, then tack on something else. And you might be having three or four different, you know, side hustles that bring in money here and there.

Same thing with her. But the point is, you guys [music] have got to get the heck out of Dodge. I got to hear some urgency.

And I'm [music] feeling like I got to move. We got to make changes. We got to shift. So guys, you you can do this, but

you're going to have to get uncomfortable. There's no way this is happening without [music] you guys getting extremely uncomfortable to do it.

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[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio.

Again, I'm here with George Camel. I'm Jade Warshaw. And we're headed back to the phone lines where we have Dan who is joining us from Fort Meyers, Florida.

Dan, how can George and I help you out today?

>> Yeah. So, my wife and I are start starting on the process of buying our first house and um our lender is suggesting we cash out our 401ks for the down payment. Oh, >> I'm trying hard not to laugh, Dan, because it's just so funny that a lender, of course, is like, "Hey, just cash out your retirement to make this happen." Come on. >> Just so I can get paid because I haven't in a while, [laughter] >> right? Right.

>> I mean, you do know that this is a horrible idea. I mean, your red flags went up, didn't they?

>> Yeah. Yeah, that was that was that was my my thought. I mean, um Yeah. Yeah.

So, >> let's play this out just just for kicks and giggles. Dan, how old are you?

I'm 30. >> Okay. You're 30. And how much are they telling you to cash out?

>> So, I've got about 22 in my Roths and my

wife's got about 14 or 16 in her uh

employer match. >> Okay. So, 22 and 16 is what you would have cashed out if you listened to your lender. >> Yeah. About 36. >> Okay. So, 36 grand. And I'm just going to play that out. If you left the 36 grand in, what it would turn into, which is how much you're losing if you did this move. Okay. And that's if you never added anything to it. Just 36 grand, letting it ride from 30 to 65.

>> That would turn into $1.2 million.

>> So this is not a $36,000 decision. It's a $1.2 million decision.

>> Absolutely. >> So that's the scary part. So that tells me though another thing. You may not be ready to buy this house.

>> Yeah. What took place that you guys even got to the point of discussing such madness?

So, yeah. So, we just moved to Florida

about three years ago. Um, we make about 140. Uh, we've got Yeah, we've got virtually no cash savings. So, that's the thing. >> We've got 30,000 in credit cards and 20,000 on her car.

>> Okay. I'm glad you told us that because around here, we really do. We love home ownership. We do. We love when people are ready to make that purchase. We love uh when people want to invest in 401ks.

We love being able to say yes to these things, but there is a time uh that it

creates a a much better timeline for this to be a blessing, a blessing for you versus a burden. And so, the way we teach it here is there's certain things that just have to be in line first. And one of those things is we're never going to recommend you buy a house while you're still in consumer debt. That is just you're just adding insult to injury because home ownership is expensive.

Number one, you're going into debt. Yes, it's different than normal consumer debt, but it's still debt and it's still a financial responsibility for you. So, we're always going to say, "Hey, you got to have your consumer debt paid off.

That's numero uno." And then after that, we want you to have an emergency fund because we all know that once you buy that house, something's going to happen.

>> Everything's on you. >> Yes. The roof is going to happen. The AC is going to happen. You're going to have pigeons that like to nest uh up in your

gutters. That happens to us all the time. And it's like you got to have the guy come out there and remove them. all that kind of crazy. >> That's outside of any family emergencies. >> Yeah. There's an ice storm and you got to have the arborist come up, right? And when you have debt, you can't cash flow that stuff. And then if you don't have savings, you can't pull from the savings for that stuff. And then the next thing you know, Dave, what do you or George, >> I appreciate that. She called me Dave.

>> Oh my lord. I looked at you and I just said, Dave, the next thing you know, what are you doing? You're going into debt. >> Further into credit card debt.

>> Credit card debt. So this we don't want that domino effect to take place. That's why there's actually reason to why we teach what we teach, George. >> So, is it too late to back out of this whole thing and just keep renting for a while as you kind of create a better financial foundation?

>> No, it's it's not too late. So, I mean, the the whole story, right? So, you've got about 10,000 in savings in cash savings, but so it's not a whole lot, but there's a little bit there.

>> where we're currently renting for $2 and half thousand dollars a month.

>> So, I mean, it's pretty we're already paying a high rental, you know, even being out in the boonies. >> Mhm. >> And then, you know, so with we just had a kid last year, so we're trying to move closer into town.

>> Rentals in town are about rentals in town, you know, closer into town by daycare is about three and a half a month. and that's about what the mortgage would be. Um, to play the devil's advocate on the on the cash out the 401k side of things, my wife's 401k match grew that in under three years in like two two and a half years. So, if we

replayed that scenario, ideally, we'd be

back at that same number within two and a half years. >> That's true. >> That could be true. You'll be there even if you didn't touch the retirement.

You'll add that if you kept where you're at. And so it's still you're still losing that 1.2 million that you unplugged >> and even though you're adding to it with the new 36 grand over time, it's still unplugging that growth for the rest of your life versus adding to it. So I still think it's a and you're you're making a you're also going to pay penalties and fees as well.

>> Yeah, we didn't talk about that. >> That's that's aside from that. And so I I think you guys are tired of the commute. You want to be homeowners. And the truth is we made decisions that just has kind of put us two steps back with the car loan and the credit cards. Like you guys are making 140 grand and you still had to turn to the credit card. So it tells me we need to get our current income under control before we step into this new chapter.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean so I mean the the the

income is under under control. The 30 that that debt's been there for a few years now. We've just >> That's even scarier. That's at 25% APR.

>> Yeah. So, and we've just been, you know, paying that. So, we've actually been living on a cash, you know, a cash budget for for a few years now.

>> I I also want to call out another part of this and and again, I don't want to sound like I'm here to bust your bubble.

That's not what I'm trying to do. I want to give you fair numbers so that whenever this all goes down, it feels good and you can actually keep it. But with your if you're bringing home 9,000 a month, doing a $3,500 mortgage is not

good for you. That's way too high for you. It's $1,000 over where it should be.

>> Ideally, you're sitting at about 2,200, which means you need to have more saved up for the down payment to then lower the mortgage or choose a different home that's at a lower price point. So, there's going to have to be compromises.

Otherwise, you're going to be calling us back when maybe you lose one income or income goes down and all of a sudden you're going, "Hey, we can't afford to stay here anymore. We need to move or we can't invest 15% to retirement cuz this mortgage is killing us." >> And and hear it from this angle. you know, you called in saying your lender gave you some bad advice. They have money tacked on to that and so they're kind of driven by by, you know, making a commission. George and I have nothing.

We're completely un unbiased for you.

And so we're just looking at this as the numbers are there. We get no commission, we get nothing. And we can just look at this and go at the bottom line, Dan, is you're just not ready to buy a house.

You just don't have the money yet. And you can get there. And I think that you can get there pretty quickly. um relative to, you know, the span of your life.

But the day is not today. And maybe next year you could be ready, but the truth is you guys have $50,000 of debt that needs to be paid off. You need to stack up at least 3 to 6 months of expenses. And then >> so that's probably like an $80,000 swing before we even start saving up a down payment, which is probably anotherundred grand.

>> Yeah. >> Right. But I think you knew in your heart that this was a bad decision.

Hence why you called our show.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I was I was thinking, you know, I probably got to go find 80 80 grand or so. >> I mean, the cool thing is my I'm self-employed. I own a construction business and I've been, you know, the limit for you. >> Sky's the limit for you to add, you know, 30 to 40,000 a year.

>> Go bust it, man. Your income is your greatest wealth building tool. So, let's use it to pay off the debt, get the emergency fund, get the down payment. If you really want that home, prove it. Pay off the debt and get yourself to a good financial spot.

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Headed back to the phone lines where we find Samantha who's in Miami, Florida.

What's going on Samantha? How you doing?

>> Hi, I'm doing great. How about you guys?

>> Excellent. How can we help?

>> I am calling because um my husband and I love the Dave Ramsey show. We watch it all the time on YouTube and I am trying

to convince my husband to let us buy a new iPhone for me. Um my iPhone does kind of work, but it's not fully functioning. Apple Pay doesn't work. Um it doesn't connect to my watch. But I do tend to kind of break things. I don't think super fast to the average, but compared to my husband, he is like he takes care of all his technology. His iPhone's like 5 years old, you know.

Mine's about about to turn three.

>> Okay. >> Um and I want a new one.

>> Okay. So, it doesn't connect to Apple Pay and it doesn't connect to your Eyewatch. >> And it's only three years old.

>> Yes. Uh yeah, it's three years old. It's fallen a few times. I work in an industry where I move around a lot. I travel a lot. So, By fallen, you mean you've dropped it?

>> Yes. >> Okay. [laughter] It didn't trip on its own is what we're asking. Okay.

>> Samantha frequently falls out of my hand, though. >> Let me tell you, Samantha, if you could have been in the commercial break, George was making fun of me because my iPhone is so destroyed. It is just It's

been It's fallen many times. It's completely cracked. and I am on your side on doing our best and it's still not being enough with these iPhones. So,

>> let's talk through. You're talking to a former Apple Store employee and it hurts my heart when I see an iPhone fall. It's like dropping a baby to me almost as

bad. >> I drop I drop babies pretty frequently.

>> Oh gosh. Samantha, >> are you dropping babies? Your own babies or other folks babies?

>> Just the iPhone. Just the iPhone.

>> Okay, good. Don't give Samantha [laughter] a baby. All right. So, you're I get I understand your husband's frustration and he's going, "Why would we get you a new one for you to then make it an old broken one very quickly?"

>> Exactly. >> What's a new iPhone run these days?

>> I haven't bought a brand new one.

>> The Pro The Pro Max one or the Pro I was

looking at was $1,100. >> Why are you looking at the Pro Max? It's like knowing you get into car wrecks a lot and going, "I'll take the Porsche, please." >> Oh, boy. $1,100. Well, even the least

even the least expensive one, I think, was around $700.

>> But can't you get can't you get a an older model? >> I'm looking right now on Swapa, which is a >> I've sold my old phones on Swapa. So, you can buy it an iPhone 16 in in great condition for 350 bucks.

>> Oh, love that.

>> And what would be the problem with that, Samantha? >> New one.

>> Cuz I just wanted the new one. >> There we go. Thank you for your honesty, Samantha. She just wants >> So, it went from my phone doesn't work to no, I just want the fanciest, latest, and greatest.

>> If I'm going to get the new phone, I just want the new phone. >> Well, let's see. Can you even afford it? So, tell us tell us, is this something that you could do and it's just not a thing or if it's something that would really set you back? Do you guys have any debt?

>> We have no debt uh for baby steps. We're on baby step six.

>> Oh, just the mortgage? >> Just our house. >> Okay. How much is in the emergency fund?

uh a year.

>> A year's worth. >> Almost a year. >> How much does that equate to?

>> That's like Well, if you include like some of our investments, I guess if it's just purely cash on the emergency fund, then six months. Okay. >> So, it's about 60K. And then we also have some investments because liquidated there was a bigger emergency. And brokerage invest >> brokerage accounts. And when we do invest almost 30% of our income annually

gets either what's your net worth? Roth IRA all the things. What's your >> um about a million? A million.

>> Okay. So So old boy is is being a little

stingy. >> I have an idea. Samantha, what iPhone does your husband have?

>> So he's his work pays for his and he just got the newest one after having his for 5 years. >> Okay. What happened to his old phone?

He cracked the screen.

>> Oh, >> see what here's where this is what we

really need to discuss. >> Five years. He had it for five years.

>> But what what we really need to set as a baseline and we need to know what is a norm of keeping your phone? Like what is the normal amount of time that a person should keep their phone before they upgrade? >> We were just out in the lobby and the it was an iPhone with the single lens. It must have been an iPhone 4 and it was working great cuz they took care of it.

Okay, George, we need to hear because we don't know unless the people speak. So, if you're watching this in the comments, put what is a normal amount of time to have your phone before you upgrade? Is it 3 years? Is it 5 years? Is it every

year? >> I would like to know. >> As long until it just literally doesn't work anymore. >> So, for the audience, is 3 years a fair time? >> I see one person said 10 years, one said five. I'm seeing another five. Two.

>> Two. Three. Okay. So, I think that we're in it seems like we're in the threshold anywhere between two to five years you should be able to upgrade your phone.

I'm I agree Samantha.

>> So, you can upgrade it. Here's my condition if I'm your husband. Day one, we are getting a screen protector on there and an Otterbox case that is indestructible. [laughter] >> The ugliest cases. >> The ugliest, biggest case you can find to protect it. Cuz the truth is, I doubt you've had screen protectors and good cases on your phones this whole time. >> Oh, yeah. And even if she has like just double down on it because >> you need it. Put it inside of a bag.

>> I am Mr. Like I'm I'm proudly my my phone is like perfect at all times. I take care of it. A screen protector at all times. Always in a case. People who you know how I know someone's rich?

Their iPhone is nude.

>> Oh, >> no case. No screen protector. I go, you can't hide money >> cuz you just they it's it doesn't matter if they shatter it tomorrow. They'll just >> I can spot a trust fund kid a mile away if they've got an iPhone with no case on. slick. You can't even get a good grip on it to hold it.

>> You're living on the edge and you and there's >> Well, >> total confidence. >> Total confidence. I can just go and ride through and get another be a little more with your phones, guys. It's You're carrying a $1,000 device.

>> Yeah. >> You wouldn't do that with your laptop. >> I've never had the brand new phone. I've never [clears throat] had the most brand new phone ever. >> I'm proud of you. >> I don't even know which one this one is, but it ain't the It's got two holes.

>> Well, you know what's nice? I buy old ones off my co-workers, you know, as they upgrade and they'll sell them on our little forums or whatever. So, ask around. I mean, Facebook Marketplace, don't get scammed there, but Swapa is another one. There's a bunch of cell phone >> sites to to sell old phones, buy buy used phones. >> So, all of that really helps cuz I don't want to overpay. >> So, uh, if I go to the Apple store, I I feel like I get them at the Apple store.

I get an older one. >> You can get refurbished. They'll have them refurbished, >> but it's cheaper on swap up, >> 100%. Refurbished is just a little bit cheaper than new.

>> Interesting. And there's more that you can choose from on there. >> Yeah. >> Interesting.

>> And it's all, you know, legit. Not a sponsor, but, you know, it's just a side. >> They ought to be. >> Hit us up.

Swapa. >> Okay. So, do you think it's fair that, you know, obviously some people like Samantha and myself, we drop them more often. Even if you hadn't dropped it, even if you just had the phone for 3 years and you were like, you know what, I'd like to see what the newer model looks like.

>> Yeah. If you budget for it, you pay cash. I mean, you might need a scing fund these days because of how expensive these things are. If it's a thousand bucks and you need one every two or three years, >> you know, 50 bucks a month you got to set aside.

>> This is a loophole that a lot of people do. Do you want to know what they do? They, you know, when they're AT&T or Verizon, >> what do they do?

>> Oh, yikes. That's my least favorite option. >> They just add it into the It's just you into their contracts. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, there's some golden handcuffs there.

So, never think, "Well, it's super cheap. I just pay it every month." That's what they want you to do. >> I can I tell you I got I kind of got tricked because I didn't know. So this was several several years back. I was going I got a notice on my phone that was like time to upgrade. And to me when it's like it's time to upgrade I'm thinking okay I'm just upgrading my phone. It's time to just swap them. Swap them. >> There you go. >> And uh I didn't even realize because

they just did one phone for another. And then I realized it was in my bill. Oh,

they snuck. >> It was just automatically. And so all of a sudden one day our phone bill went down and I was like, why did our phone bill go down and I realized I'd been paying payments on the phone and I didn't even know it. >> Wow, that is brutal. The other thing I need to mention is that a lot of people think, well, my phone is broken, it doesn't work anymore. No, it's just user error because you put so much crap on that phone, it can't function anymore.

>> Too much some space. And so resetting your phone and cleaning it, you'll feel like you got a new phone. Just like with a car, get your car detailed and that car fever will go away pretty quickly.

>> You know what though? Some people that's just their thing. Like if it weren't for Sam Wars on our house, I would have no dealings with the technology. Like he does all that stuff. I get frustrated.

One thing doesn't work. I'm like, "That stupid phone." And he just walks by and pushes one button and it's all fixed. >> See, me and Sam were tech support.

>> Tech support. Every every household needs a tech support. I could tell it was you in your house. >> I can't use a a you know screwdriver, but I can fix your Wi-Fi. No problems.

[laughter] >> Tech support. We need it.

[music]

>> [music]

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Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsay principles. And so today we're going to talk about some of the most asked questions that you guys ask Ramsay. Um we get questions all the time around budgeting, paying off debt, but this time the top question was around retirement savings. George, as a matter of fact, the most asked question was this. How do I know if I have enough saved to retire?

>> Well, the simple answer that you will hate is, you know, you have enough saved to retire when your retirement income can cover your retirement lifestyle without depending on social security.

So, figure out how much you'll need to live on each month in retirement, which easier said than done because we don't know what inflation's going to be. Will social security be there? How much will it be? >> Health care costs, all of that.

But to the best of your ability, go, okay, here's what I'm living on now. Here's what I think it'll be, you know, 10, 20, 30 years from now. Then list all of your expected income streams. Hopefully, if you follow our plan, you've got the 401ks, IRA, maybe even a pension.

And if your monthly income is close to or above that expected monthly spending, you are probably on track. And if there's a gap that tells me you need to lower the lifestyle, you need to increase how much you're saving now or plan to work part-time in a retirement, uh, not a bad idea. So important call outs though. Be debt free before in retirement.

to pay off the house. Make sure you have everything paid off before you head into retirement. Plan for those health care costs. Be on a written retirement budget, not just vibes.

>> Yeah. Not just a guess. That's so good.

And Ask Ramsey. It can really help you walk through a retirement planning checklist to make sure that you have your retirement savings uh that can actually float you and your lifestyle in retirement. So again, ask your question today at askramseysseysolutions.com

or you can just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Again, if you want to ask Ramsey your question, go to ramsysolutions.com.

All right, we got Jeff who's in Nashville, Tennessee. Hey Jeff, how can we help out today? >> Hey guys. Well, I have a question um

about my career and I was wondering if you guys could help. So, I've been with the same company for almost 13 years and

we are in kind of the restoration cleaning industry.

The plan for my future was that I'm to

take over the company. Um, we have no

written contract. There's no written agreement. It's just something that somebody told me. Uh, but lately I've

found a lot of moral and ethical disparity uh between my owner and I. And my question for you is, do I hang on and wait until I can take over or is it time

to just go ahead and move on?

>> Ooh. Well, I would love to know the moral and ethical cuz that sounds very serious. Is it like crimes are being committed or they're just doing things in a way you wouldn't?

>> Um, not as far as the world is concerned. Uh, biblically, a little bit.

Um, essentially in this industry, I'm

not I'm not about giving people money to give me work or people that give me work, me give them money back. And that has started to happen after 16 years of

this company never spending a dollar on

marketing at all. We're now paying off a

person to quote unquote give us work that that's just not profitable.

>> So, you're paying a marketer.

Oh, no. This is paying um essentially a

maintenance guy to approve contracts

or approve bids that we that we offer up to them.

>> Okay. >> What is that doing for the company? What's the upside?

>> I will quote, we have to do what we have to do to get work. And that's that's

what I was told this is all about.

However, um, >> am I missing something on the moral part of this or the ethical? Help me understand. I I feel like I'm missing something. >> So, there's a person who's helping you get contracts and they're approving whether the bids are are good enough.

>> No, essentially, this is a maintenance guy that works for somebody who has the

ability to approve or deny estimates for this property. and my company paid that

man $7,000 in an attempt to get him to approve more of our estimates. >> So, it's a basically a bribe. >> A bribe.

>> That's a That's a perfect way to put it.

Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. Yeah, that makes more sense. I was I I needed that clarity. Okay. So, you're bribing they're they're bribing this guy. If we pay you a little money on the side, you'll approve us more more clientele more projects.

>> Okay. You don't like the way that's being done. That makes sense. Um, the part that I'm really wondering about is you said people are talking about me taking over the company, but there's neither contracts nor paper trail for this. I would need more uh if >> I would need like a a date in writing versus a just a vibe of like, well, maybe when the time comes, you could take it over. >> Can you have that conversation?

>> We've had the conversation several times. Uh, it's loose-ended. There's no definition. There's no timeline. There's

no payment there. None of that stuff is

discussed. And we're talking a company that may value somewhere around $350,000.

>> Okay. Um >> if this was a significant other in your life and [snorts] we're talking about commitment and marriage, you would go, "Hey, clearly she's not that into you."

>> If she's kicking the tires going, "Yeah, maybe we'll get married. Uh we'll see about that." It might just be a way to keep you keep you warm, like keep you on, you know, on their side and keep you as an employee cuz maybe they know that you don't like the way things are going.

>> And you've addressed it, it sounds like, cuz they gave you the answer of, hey, we got to do what we got to do.

>> That's it. And and this has been addressed many times. Um, I feel exactly

like that that they're trying to keep me on a hook for a while until the day comes and and then we just cut the line.

So that question is I've already kind of formed up an LLC and before I just start

really moving forward with it, my question is do I maintain what I'm doing now?

>> Well, >> and try to cold start my LLC or do I just jump right into this thing? >> Well, yeah, that's a whole different question because I, you know, you we're there's income on the line here, right?

So, how much are you earning now? >> Yep. >> It's it's minimal. I make 60 a year.

>> 60 a year. And how quickly do you think you could generate that same profit from you starting up your own business?

>> I would need about six, maybe seven

months. >> Is there any part of this business that you can do ethically while you're still

working for your boss?

>> Absolutely. Nights and weekends.

>> Oh, okay. >> And it's on conflict with any contract you signed to like a non-compete.

>> Absolutely. I don't have a non-compete.

>> Okay. >> Okay. That's >> then there's nothing wrong with you going, "Hey, it's it's my time. When the time is right, I'm going to go launch this thing on the side." But I don't think in good faith you can continue working for this person because of the soul tax that you're paying right now.

The resentment building up. I mean, it's going to eat you alive. It's a poison that you're drinking every day you stay here knowing this business is not being run ethically.

>> Fair. you're not excited to go to work for a guy who does that >> who you're not align in the values and so for that reason I would get out as soon as possible even if you go work for someone else in the meantime while you get this thing off the ground. >> Do you think you could find someone else to go work for quickly?

>> I well unfortunately uh for this company

about 80% of our book of business comes through my phone. It's it's my contacts my people friends etc family. So the the

work for me won't stop. It just it will just go through. >> What happens when you divert those leads to your new business versus them and their business hurts even more.

>> Unfortunately, they're the ones calling me. I'm I'm not in control of who, you know, whether they choose the old company or the new company.

>> But you're going to tell them, "Hey, I actually started my own thing if you're interested." >> So if realistically, how many leads do you think would come with you? And how much money is that? like how much could you have on the table within your first 30 to 60 days?

>> First 30 to 60 days with a cold start, not necessarily having everything together. I could probably I could probably pull together 25 to 40,000 in

in project work pretty quickly.

>> And that turns into how much in profits? Does that replace your current monthly income?

>> Oh, it would absolutely blow my current income out of the water. >> I think this is going to happen faster than you think. I think you try this for a month or two and realize, "Oh, okay. I can do this repeatedly with stability." >> Absolutely.

And because here's the thing, you might just flip it. Usually, it's the opposite. We say, "Okay, you know, do this other job while you build the business, but I think you can build the business. And if you have extra time, yeah, sure, you could work a side hustle and fill in gaps, but I don't even think you need to do that.

There's no non-compete, so there's nothing ethically here. Um, >> you just want to run a business differently. >> I'm all for it. and you want to do it the right way. I think that's really really good and we're rooting for you.

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Well, it's my favorite time of the show, George, where we get to talk about my favorite budgeting app, which is Every Dollar. And uh one of our favorite things is when people share their stories about how every dollar is helping them win. As a matter of fact, we have this from a fan. They said, "It's just being able to use every dollar and see all the extra we have every single month." It was super motivating.

We'd have thousands of dollars just we'd have thousands of dollars extra and just throw it on the mortgage. And hey, I think that's amazing. And you can do the same thing, too.

You can change your family tree. And you can live like no one else. So, start every dollar for free today in the App Store or Google Play. Matt is in

Phoenix, Arizona. Matt, you are on the line, my friend.

>> Hey, hey guys. How are you doing? >> Doing good. >> What's up? >> I am at a weird crossing point. Um, we

are in baby step two and we have no consumer debt left. We just have our mortgage which is at 416 thou 416,000

and we have 75,000 in student loans left

at 8%. >> Okay. >> Um we are trying to figure out uh we

have 50,000 in the bank too.

>> How much?

>> Uh what's that? >> How much do you have in the bank?

>> Uh 50,000. >> 50. Okay. Um we're trying to figure out

if we should pay the um student loans

right now. And the only reason I would be second questioning it in the in the the process of all this is because in our mortgage is um the PMI uh high the

mortgage insurance which is $250 a month. >> Our student loan payment is 117 a month.

So, in order to get our PM PMI insurance

off, we would have to pay $70,000 right around there on our mortgage to drop that off. >> So, my thought process was, do I pay the

70 on the mortgage to drop that down so I can roll that extra 250 towards the student loan since it's uh more than double the student loan payment >> and then tackle that? or do I just keep

keep trucking along and knock out the student loans and then keep going from there? Um, >> it's a fair question. I I mean, you're looking at um you're looking at what

you'll receive back. So, you're looking at the payment in essence more so than the balance itself of the consumer debt.

Um, and I understand that if I were in your shoes, because really when we're talking about the the mortgage, that really is a baby six activity, baby step six activity. And so I would continue on

with the student loans because there's $75,000 of these bad boys. You got to knock this out. The good news is you have $49,000 that you can put towards that cause and I would totally do that.

Um I would totally do that.

>> My guess is you're knocking out a bunch of student loans in the process, right?

>> Yeah. >> Because they're broken up. So you're going to free up a whole lot of payments, too. >> Yeah. How have you done the calculation?

How much is that?

Um, as far as interest, >> if you pay off the the $50,000 of the smallest loans right now, how many payments would that free up? What does that amount to each month?

>> Um, that I have not calculated.

>> That's a better calculation, I think, than the minimum payment on the student loans. >> So, I would definitely tackle the student loans. I know the PMI sucks, but you're going to get there real fast if you knock out these student loans. What's your household income? >> Okay. >> Uh, 318,000.

>> Goodness gracious. >> Oh, yeah. We'll knock out the student loans and the mortgage if you get control of this. >> Yeah. Over the course of this year, why wouldn't that be the goal to pay the to be out of baby step two? So 75,000 down

and then we're act like aggressively saving up three months of expenses.

We're and then from then we can aggressively uh put extra towards this PMI.

>> 100%. Yeah, we can definitely do it. We take home about anywhere from I'm on commission, but we take home about 14 to 17,000 after taxes every month.

>> Um, >> so we we've been aggressive. We paid off 120,000 in the last like 15 months.

Excellent. >> So, we've been we got everything all the consumer stuff out of the way. Um, the only monkey wrench here is in about 12

months my wife is going to um we're

going to have her stay at home and just raise the kids. >> Okay. And so we're going to lose about $68,000 in the income. And

um we would um we would our take-home after taxes would just be around 13 to 14,000. Okay.

>> But um but then after we put on health

insurance and 401k and all that stuff, we would only be saving about after um

bills and utilities and mortgage, we would only be saving about 2 to 3,000 a month. That would be the extra play after all the bills is what we would have to left to play with rather than right now we have about 11 10 to 11,000

in play every month.

>> So you're saying that uh that feels like a huge swing bigger than I thought. So she stays home. Obviously your income goes down from 17 to 13 and then you figure how much for insurance?

Um well the from what I was getting quotes from like the home family so it' be me my wife and two kids um health

insurance full plan was like it was like 18 or 1,900 a month >> is that marketplace insurance >> so we'll call that 200 >> for my work >> through your work. Okay. Yeah that's real high for an employer sponsored healthcare plan. >> It it feels high. Um but for for now

we'll take your word for it. So >> I would look at the high deductible plans too which will have lower premiums. Have you looked at those options? >> No, I just kind of got some rough numbers from the um uh from the representative. >> Okay. I would make sure to look at those highdeductible HDHP plans cuz the premiums will be way lower.

>> Okay. >> Hopefully. >> So, you're go you're down 6,000 for the month. So, I see what you're saying there.

Um it sounds like the point is just let's try to kick out as much of this debt while we have this high monthly income. And I think that's a great play. You can obviously afford for her to stay home. You can afford those things.

But it really just frames what uh George and I said beautifully, which is, yeah, while you have this money for the next 12 months, let's kick it into >> knock out consumer debt, get the emergency fund, and get that PMI knocked off. Now we have a whole lot of extra margin. >> Yeah, love it.

Next up, we have Daniel who's in Salt Lake City, Utah. Daniel, how can George and I help today?

>> All right. Yes. My [clears throat] uh my question is uh that my business has debt

still and but my wife and I personally do not carry any and so it's kind of a

weird spot where we're on baby step four

but the business is still I guess technically on baby step two. >> Who runs the business? >> Trying to figure out. >> Yeah. Are you soloreneurs? Boom. Looks like you're in debt, Daniel.

>> Right. Exactly. I know. Yeah. Exactly.

We're in debt. So that's what I thought you were going to say. We're We're on baby step number two till the business is paid off then, right? >> Uh-huh. >> How much is left on that? >> Yeah. 80,000.

>> Okay. How quickly could you knock that out if you guys got >> be done this year? >> Oh, okay. Before Before 2026 is over, this debt is gone. And then you need to build up an emergency fund.

>> Yeah. I mean, a business emergency fund.

My wife and I have, you know, about $70,000 ourselves.

>> Okay. I would use your personal money to pay off your debts. >> Is it just Is it just Are you the only two owners? Is it just you and your wife or do you have lots of employees? >> I have a 50% partner. So, I have a I

have a partner. Um I would love to do

that, but he he doesn't have the same amount of money stored up and so we wouldn't be able to evenly split paying off the debt personally. >> Could you knock out your part and have an assigned agreement saying, "Hey, your part of this debt is done."

>> Yeah, I guess in in theory.

>> It's 80,000 left in business debts on a

credit card and a line of credit >> and it'll be done at the end of the summer if you use the profits from the business.

>> Uh yes, that's correct. >> I would aim for that. I would get on the same page with them and go, "Hey, listen. I don't want this dead hanging around any longer. It's adding risk to our business. If we get real intense, we can knock this thing out." You guys have any reserves in the business as well?

Yeah, I mean, well, technic we've got customer deposits, you know, those are technically not our money yet either until the jobs are produced. We're residential painting company, so you know, the deposits, you know. >> Yeah, you do need to have some reserves.

I think because if you had told me that you were 100% owner of this business, I'd say, yeah, pay it off, reach over, do do whatever you need to do, but because you're not full owner and there's another guy that's associated with this, [music] yeah, as long as you guys can have this using those profits by the end of the summer, I love that.

and and [music] stack up some reserves.

6 to 12 months is what I would do immediately.

[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fair Ones Credit Union studio here with George Camel, myself, Jade Warshaw.

Uh we got Ryan who's in Chattanooga, Tennessee, just down the road. Ryan, you're up next, buddy. How can we help?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking the call. Uh my question for you as a 26-year-old

um man married to my wife that's 24. I'm

curious. We we put a large portion of our monthly income away into savings and retirement. U we have little to no debt.

And I'm just curious, how much money is

saving too much for retirement versus being able to enjoy your 20s and 30s?

>> That's a very good question. Can you clarify for us a little bit two things?

What it means when you say little to no debt and just how much are you putting towards retirement and savings?

>> Yeah. So, our debt, my wife has about $4,000 worth of student loans. Um, we

across the board do not have any credit card debt. I do not have any student loans and we just have our mortgage. Um, both cars are paid off and we put roughly three grand a month into saving

or into investing for our retirement.

>> Why haven't you paid off the student loan?

We had it set up on an automation that was kind of her uh I guess spectrum and

um that's what we're planning on tackling within the next month or so.

>> Well, how much do you have saved? Have you been putting around three putting away 3,000? How much do you have in non-retirement savings right now?

>> In non-retirement savings. So as a for our I guess emergency fund. So the the 200,000 a month correlates with I guess the 401k and our Roth IAS.

>> How much do you have retired savings?

>> So we have roughly about 25 grand in our

uh taxable I guess liquid brokerage outside of our initial retirement.

>> Do you have any do you have any high yield savings money? Like just any money in savings?

Uh well that that is I guess drawing from the high yields right now. It's uninvested cash in my brokerage account.

>> Oh, got it. Okay. So it's just sitting there >> like a money market situation.

>> Okay. Cool. Cool. >> Correct. Correct. Sorry. >> All right. So you're wondering are you saving too much by putting three grand away a month into investments.

>> Correct. when I did my calculation 11% over the next, you know, 32 years or so till I've hit 60 for retirement, it's like $15 million, which is great number

to have with contributing that much each month. But >> so the 3K is 11% of your money.

>> Uh what what do you mean by that?

>> You're saying 11% as the rate of return when you calculate. >> Correct. Okay. What's your household income? Gross household income. Yeah, we make roughly um 130,000 here.

>> Okay, so our baby steps go as follows.

Baby step one, $1,000. You have that.

Baby step two, pay off all consumer debt, which means the student loans are paid off today, which brings your brokerage down to 21,000. Tracking

>> correct. >> Now, we need 3 to six months of expenses. What does six months of expenses look like for you guys? Is it more than 21 grand?

>> I would say between 20 and 25.

>> Great. So, we'll call that good.

Now we're at baby step four. 15% of household income which for you guys 15% is going to be$195 >> 1,600 a month 1625.

>> So that's the amount you should be putting away and any extra money then gets diverted to the mortgage and to enjoying your life. So you asked how much should we can we use some of this to enjoy our 20s and 30s. Yes, >> you should be using it. And I think investing three grand and putting every dime away into retirement is a bad idea because you have a flat tire. >> And honestly, I think this is just a mental shift more than a more than anything because after you do the 1,600

uh every single month, if you did another 1,500 extra on the mortgage, it's the same 3,000. You're just splitting it up and doing it in the right ways. So, you're still do you see what I'm saying? So, in many ways, you're still investing because a mortgage in many ways isn't it's it's an investment. It's it's it's definitely a force savings account at best. And so

you are investing, you're just doing it in different ways. So it's just a mentality shift there.

>> Sure. Okay. >> The dollar the dollars themselves don't really change.

>> Yeah. I guess there's I guess it's harder from mentally from a I guess

liquid versus illquid stand.

>> Well, let's talk let's talk let's talk through that. Let's talk through that because it it is worth talking through that. Um, we have found that it sounds

like your goal is to build wealth, right?

>> Correct. >> Yes. We've done the largest study of millionaires and one of the things that we found is there's two there's two key portions of this. Number one is these people, they invest in their 401k.

That's where they build the majority of their worth. It's not they've got all this real estate. They don't have these crazy No, they invest in their employee sponsored accounts. That's what they do.

And then the other thing that they do is they pay off their home mortgage. And they do it relatively quickly. And so if you can do those two things, combined effort, that is the ticket. That's what we have found works time and time and time again for millions of people.

And you're you're right there. Like I said, the amount that you're putting towards savings doesn't change. You're just not investing at all. So we're creating diversification in many ways.

>> You have a forced savings plan by putting it into that mortgage, paying it off, having all that equity. And that's exactly what my wife and I did, Ryan. We were very much I mean, you guys are earlier than we even got started. We had a paid off home in our early 30s, became Baby Steps Millionaires in our early 30s.

But I would caution you to slow down a bit. Move from intensity to intentionality once you're out of baby step three and and you begin to invest.

Because I don't want you to look back and go, "Oh my gosh, we have kids now.

We're not going we didn't get to do all those trips we wanted to do. Life got crazy and chaotic and complicated." So, I would allocate in your budget money for vacations and trips and some little luxuries. You guys have earned it. you've worked your tails off at 26 and 24 to be soon to be debtree as soon as you're off this call.

>> Yeah, I I appreciate it. It is It is nice to know that percentage threshold of, you know, how can I still be secured for the future, but also enjoy today.

So, I appreciate it. >> If you just do 15% until the mortgage is paid off, you're going to have so much in retirement. And by the way, once the mortgage is paid off, you can ratchet that up to 20, 30, 40, 50%. But make

sure that you're also giving and spending. >> You got to have all three in check.

Investing, saving, giving, spending. So all of those in check. 15% investing, 10% giving, especially if you're a person of faith. And then you can enjoy it after all the bills are paid. And that's where the every dollar budget comes in. It forces me to to go, "Oh, yeah. I need to put money away for that vacation." >> Yes. >> So we don't go, "Wait, this savings account is just for life." No, no, no.

You earmarked it for vacation, so use it. One of the things that kind of makes me sad is we can really get into the the the baby step two mode, that just gazelle intensity mode, because it feels good. We're making accomplishments. We're paying off debt.

We're saving really quickly. And it's like if that mentality continues to follow you, you never really enjoy the fruit of the baby steps. The whole point is to really rush it so you can get out of those painful periods. Get out of baby step two, get out of baby step three.

But man, once you're once you're in four, five, and six, and the house is starting to come down and everything is really, you know, starting to take shape, you're investing your 15%, you've got to live a little, >> live like no one else. So later, >> you can live like no one else and give like no one else. And you know, I got a DM the other day. They went, "Hey, can I buy this fancy coffee machine?

I know you like coffee." And I was like, "Well, where are you guys at financially?" They go, "Well, we're millionaires. We have a great income.

>> Get the coffee machine." Yes. And >> it feels like you're doing a bad thing because you're spending $2,000 which feels insane. You're right. It is insane if you're broke.

>> Yeah. >> But if you have the money, it's a small part of your world and it increases your quality of life. Try it. And what else makes you feel better is when you know you're generous.

You know that you're also giving a a generous portion of your money.

It is a very delicate balance. Give, [music] save, spend. You got to do all three.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

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The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. [music] If your private student loans are in default and you're not sure what to do next, Y refi can help you explore refinancing with a low fixed rate and a payment plan that's based on what you can actually afford. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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and it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Evan in Iowa. I'm a husband and father of two young children currently in baby step two. I do not have term life insurance and neither does my wife. While we were looking at our monthly budget, the subject came up of when is the right time to get life insurance. Is this a financial priority while we are paying off debt or should we hold off until we are debtree and have our emergency fund in place?

>> Great question, >> Controvers. >> And the beautiful answer is that you need term life insurance regardless of what baby step you are on. As soon as anybody relies on your income, young children, a wife, even when you're just young and healthy, it's a good time to lock it in. >> It's a great because it's cheaper. Number one, >> it's so cheap. And so, absolutely, both of you need to get term life. You need 10 to 12 times your annual incomes u on

a, you know, 20 25 year term. And you

will find that it is quite affordable.

And if you're a stay-at-home spouse, you definitely need term life insurance to the tune of at least half a million. I like threequarters of a million.

>> Well, we had a call about that earlier.

Um, one I think it was my maybe our first call today. >> And it really is that 10 to 12 times number is so important because ideally what you want for anybody who's dependent on your income if you should go cuz we're all going to get beamed up at some point, but if you should go earlier than expected, you want that person who's left behind to not have to worry about cuz many many stay-at-home moms, they've never worked in the workforce. >> Yeah. And that was her situation.

She had some teens at home. She was stay at home.

And she had $500,000, which is you're going, "Wow, that's life-changing money." >> Sure, but it's not I never need to work again. >> And so if he had had 10 to 12 times his income in term life, he would have had 1.4 to $1.6 million.

>> She could have then drawn the exact amount. >> She could have invested that amount. the market would have spit off enough income for her to cover all of her expenses without having to worry about when is this money going to run out and they were renting. >> Yes, that's right. >> So, think about that. 10 to 12 times her income invested, your family's covered.

And so, they're while they're grieving your loss, at least they're not struggling financially figuring out what's next. So, get term life in place.

Xander is the place we've been recommending for decades now. I just re I just got an extra term life policy.

>> Did you do 15? Well, now that I got young kids and, you know, dogs that are too expensive, I just felt better. It was like, I'll sleep better at night. I might sleep with one eye open now cuz I might be I'm worth more dead than alive.

>> Yeah. >> But, uh, I know my family's going to be taken care of and Whitney's not going to be, you know, yelling at me. Hopefully.

Hopefully looking [laughter] up. Hopefully looking up, yelling at me.

>> LOOKING DOWN, THERE'S A PROBLEM. >> But she hates when I talk about it. She is the person who's like, I don't even want to think about it. Me either. And you bring up a good point because I think a lot of people avoid these types of discussions, life insurance, wills, because it is a mortality issue and it's

like, oh, I don't want to think about the worst happening, but it really is a way to love your family. Well, >> I hope you never have to use it and it was just money well spent to transfer the risk to the insurance company.

That's the goal is that the policy runs out after 20 or 25 years. You've been following the baby steps. You got a paid for house at the end of that. You've been investing for a couple of decades.

So, your nest egg has caused you to be self-insured. >> Yeah, that's the that's the goal. That's what we want to get to. >> Exactly. So, go check it out. Xander.com is the place to go. Get this done. Do not wait. >> Don't wait. Eric is in Kansas City, Missouri. Hi, Eric. How can George and I help out today? >> How's it going? >> Good. >> I am recently retired at 57.

Um, first out of age by my job. I have a

401k, but I am unsure what to do with it

because we can no longer contribute to it, but I don't want to draw from it either. So, I'm trying to figure out how to maximize my gain with it.

>> Yeah. Well, you could do a direct transfer rollover and roll it into an IRA.

And I would suggest maybe getting with a smart vester pro to help you do that.

Uh, and you can find those at ramiesolutions.com.

But that's easy to do. My question is, what do you plan to do with your time?

It sounds like you weren't ready to retire yet.

>> Well, part of it medical, part of it was by age. So, I mean, I make enough money right now or through my retirement

and disability through the VA that I don't need to draw off of my >> When you say retirement, >> what is your current income coming from now?

Um, I have

um I get about 7,000 a month right now.

I get 3,000 from my job that I retired

from. I get money.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Another four grand from disability from the VA.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And so you're saying I don't need to touch the 401k money, but I want it to grow. So absolutely, I would do what Jade said, do a direct rollover.

So you don't want to see that money. It should not pass through your bank account. They will just transfer it directly over to an IRA, which is a a non-employer sponsored retirement account. And that way, you have all of the options in the world, way more than you even had in that 401k.

Uh but the key is if it's traditional, you want to make sure it's rolled over to a traditional IRA. And if it's Roth, you want to make that portion transfer to a Roth IRA.

>> How much is in that 401k, Eric? Uh, it's

almost 400,000.

>> Only 400,000.

>> That's a lot of money, my guy.

[laughter] >> But in in Eric's case, I feel like it's not a mess. >> Well, you know, you're not using it, which is good. And I love George's point. It sounds like it's traditional money.

So, it is going into a traditional IRA, but depending on what baby step you're in, I would be interested in over time moving that to Roth funds if possible. And that's something else that the Smart Investor Pro could help you with because if you're not touching this money and it truly is for posterity, then you want that to be tax-free growth. You want them to not have to pay taxes on that money uh when it's transferred to them and when they have the ability to access that.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, based on what the stock market has actually done over, you know, the last several several decades since 1950, we've seen a 10 to 12% average annual return. And so there's something called the rule of 72. And it's simple. You divide 72 by the annual rate of return.

It tells you how quickly your money will double. So at a 10% rate of return, your money would double every 7.2 years. So if you're doing the math at your age, at 64, if you just leave that alone, invested, that 400k turns into 800 at 64, 1.6 million by 71, 3.2 million by

the age of 77.

>> That's what I want to hear. >> Yeah, there you go. And that's if you never add to it. Like you mentioned, you you are fine on your own with your disability income and your pension income. So if you continue to live on less than you make and let that grow, that is generational wealth.

>> And that's where the transfer of Roth really really matters for you. Plus, you don't want to have retired minimum distributions if you don't need it.

>> Right. >> So that smart investor pro can help you also. >> What was that?

>> I said, yeah, because currently, you know, I would like to also contribute more into you know, my investment instead of letting it just ride because I've got money in savings that's not making any money. You know what I mean? >> Yeah, you can invest that too.

>> So, >> so that smart investor pro walk you through it. And I would also ask them about Roth conversions because like Jade's saying, if you can convert those strategically so you could do a portion each year, moving from traditional to Roth, you pay some taxes.

Doing it all at once is going to bump you way up in the tax brackets and cause you to have a big tax bill. And so that Smart Investor Pro can walk you through it strategically so that that money is then growing taxree the rest of your life and passed on to your heirs taxfree which is going to be pretty cool for somebody in your life one day.

>> Thank you. >> Does that make does that make a lot of sense for you Eric?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Good. Good. Good. Is it just and is it just you, Eric, or do you have a wife, kids? Is there anybody else? It's just you. So, what do you plan on doing with that 3.2 million? I mean, what's what what do you think you'll Who's the beneficiary of that?

>> I try to take care of my my sisters and my mom. >> Okay. I love that. >> Good man.

>> Yeah, you are. That's a it's a really good point, George. you know, um he's in such a great position and there's many people who even if even if you are drawing off your retirement, there's still going to be a large portion [music] there and you do want to make sure that you're setting it up as a legacy piece so that whoever is inheriting that is not inheriting a major tax burden.

And so if you want a Smart Investor Pro to help you think strategically about whatever it is, wealth, estate planning, tax planning, you can go to ramseyolutions.com and click on smartvetor. [music]

>> [music]

>> Listen, your home is your most expensive asset, and now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money. But in this wackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner. Someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a

Ramsay trusted real estate agent comes in. To find one near you, go to ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's ramiesolutions.com/agent.

[music]

Alrighty, guys. It's May and the Ramsy

Cash giveaway is officially here. You can enter every single day from May 1st to May 31st. There's going to be one grand prize winner who's going to get 10 G's. $10,000.

>> 10 bands.

>> Yes. Also bands. Plus, there will be one

$500 weekly winner, which is pretty legit. And the good news is you can enter daily to increase your chances of winning. So, multiple times, once a day.

Plus, be sure to check out our sale going on right now. Kick off your summer with books and assessments for just $12.

That's pretty darn good. Go to ramseysolutions.com/giveaway now to enter. No purchase is necessary in order to win. All right, Amy in the

city I was born, Spokane, Washington.

What's going on, Amy? How can George and I help?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um, I'm calling because my husband said that

if I could get the Ramsay Show to approve of our house build, we could move forward with it. So, no pressure or anything. >> My entire future is just riding on this.

No, but [laughter] we're in a pretty good dream killer.

>> I've been known to be a dream killer, to be fair. >> Is he Is he anywhere listening? Is he with a glass on the door somewhere listening? >> You know what? He He's a He rides bikes

and he is currently listening to the show in his earpods on a bike ride. So, >> Okay. Okay. [laughter] >> Okay. Shout out shout out wherever you are on your bike. We're We're going to do our best to be fair.

>> I want to get you there. I want I want this to be a Yes. So, walk us through the predicament. >> Me, too. And we're both I just want to start by we're both very much on the same page. We're just like we want to be strategic and make sure this is the right choice for our family. And so I'll give you just a little bit of a um idea

of who who we are. And so we're 36 years

old. We've been married for 12 years.

>> Um we're actually Spokane is the closest town to us, but we're in a very desired ski town um nearby. And we own a house.

It's p we we have no debt. We've paid off our house. Um, we took Financial Peace University right when we got married and really it's it's been

fantastic for our life. Um,

>> that's incredible at 36 years old.

>> It feels really good. It really does.

And we we just built a um apartment

above a garage on the same property that we live in in this house right now. Um,

and so we're going to like our desire is to build a house

because we have a pretty big piece of property on this same property. So, it's paid for. Um, and we would then have our

house and the rental as income or and

the apartment rental as income.

>> Got it. And so, um, we're just trying to

figure out like

my husband's pretty hesitant to go back into any kind of debt, which I understand. It's been so great. I think we paid off our house about four years ago. And um so we're just going do we do

we wait until we have the cash on hand

>> or being that I'm pregnant with our third and I don't want our baby sleeping in a closet. Do we do we build the house

that will function for our family better than the one that we currently live in and we don't want to sell our house because it will make really good income.

>> Okay. Well, how much is it going to cost to build this house?

Um, it's probably about a million.

>> Okay. And what does that get you? What does a million get you? Is this like a fourbedroom house? Like what does it get? >> Yep. Four bedroomedroom. Um, we, like I said, Ptown it, it costs quite a bit to build here. >> Um, and I think a million might be being a, you know, between one and 1.2 for the

plan that we have. But yeah, it's a four four bedroomedroom >> um three bath.

>> Okay. Four three. And what do you have saved so far towards this? Not including

emergency fund, not retirement. You know the deal. >> Totally.

>> So, well, I'll just give you kind of our like cash on hand is 500. Um, and that's

um that's kind of just in the bank right now because we were needing to pull out a lot to build this current apartment that is that that I was talking about.

Okay. >> And then in our Roth 401k we have

>> um about 450

and then our joint account that that so

the Roth you know that's our retirement we can't join off the table. Uhhuh.

>> Yeah. So, um, 275 right now and

our current property is valued, we don't really know because we just built this, but I would say probably 1.5.

>> How much do you guys make? What do you take home every month?

>> Um, well, >> cuz that's really what this that's really what this is all riding on. Cuz I can tell you right now, if you tell me, hey, I'm looking to do a house for 1.2 2 million. And I just plug this in the Ramy Solutions uh mortgage calculator.

If you put the $500,000 cash down on a

15-year fixed at uh I'll put in 5.6

>> for now. I don't have it on my screen what the current rates are, but that's going to put the payment around 7,000 bucks a month. So, as long as this is no

more than 25%, you're on the right track in my unless you say something crazy in the next few minutes. >> Yeah. What is your average take-home pay?

>> We own a business and we

um I would say about

it changes year to year, but I'd say about 250.

>> Okay. >> Is there annual income?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Got it. >> Cuz yeah, I need you to be taken home.

That puts you at my [clears throat] guess is you're probably taking home around 12 to 14 a month.

>> Well, we pay ourselves once a year

because it's a seasonal business.

>> Uhhuh. >> So, what do you pay yourselves? >> Um, >> 250k.

Um,

>> we're just trying to find out your after tax monthly income to figure out if this mortgage is going to make sense because I'm not sure if you, you know, I understand wanting to pay cash.

>> It's not a sin if you go back to baby step six for a season with the intentionality of we're going to pay this off >> pretty aggressively to get back to baby step seven. >> Like our plan would be five years. Well, if you if you say, "Hey, we we we pay ourselves $250,000 cash in our pocket and we split it over 12 months, so it's around 21,000 a month." >> Um, >> it's it's getting you close. It's getting you close, but that mortgage is still creeping up, right?

>> But then what would you guys say if if our house, you know, our house would rent for about 44,500 a month and the

apartment for about 2500?

>> 4,500 and200. You can rent out both separately.

>> Both separately. Yes. >> Right. And that I think that gets you there because that's now considered income.

>> Now, there's still some, you know, variables with that. So, you don't want to count it 100% cuz you've got vacancies, maintenance, repairs, you

know, tenant issues, all of that is going to play a part.

>> But I feel like you guys are thinking about this pretty clearly. The only concern is you'd have the majority of your net worth would be in real estate.

>> Mhm. So that's the only thing to think about if you have, you know, 450K in retirement. Uh, but I think longterm, you guys are 36. So over time, your retirement is going to surpass your your home. And the other thing to think about is, is this the same property? If you were to sell one day, could you sell them separately? Is the is the land big enough? >> Yeah. >> Okay, great. >> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. So, >> you definitely could. And >> go ahead. Go ahead.

>> Oh, no. I was just saying like that's definitely been a huge and there's more land that we could I mean if we wanted to divide off some we could just sell it

as property too.

>> You could like parcel it out and and just sell pieces of it. Okay.

>> So if you tell me if I if I hear these numbers right which I I think I did uh

one rental is 4500 the other one is 2500.

>> Yeah. So, that's another $84,000 a year.

>> And that gets you there. If you keep that and it's consistent, that gets you to just about $2,800 or $28,000 a month,

which is right where you'd want to be for this mortgage. >> But what George said is very critical.

Usually, we would not tell somebody.

It's the same as somebody said, "I can buy a house, but as long as I have somebody living in the rooms, right, to make the mortgage for you guys, that's the critical part on this. that $84,000 is really dependent on. Is this person going to be dependable month after month? >> And will this business income be dependable? You got to think about that, too. But [music] you got a green light from us if you check all those boxes.

Congratulations.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories.

But you know what else? There's more of spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the

Every Dollar Budget app because it helps you plan your money, track your spending, and find more margin in your budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most.

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Our

Ramsey Show scripture and quote of the day is Proverbs 22:26-27.

It says, "Do not be one who shakes hands and pledge or puts up security for debts. If you have nothing with which to pay, why should your bed be taken from under you?" Shots fired.

>> Shots fired for sure. Doug Larson said, "People are living longer than ever before." A phenomenon undoubtedly made necessary by the 30-year mortgage.

>> That's hilarious. >> Dang. 30 years though, that's a short lifespan. Doug, [laughter] >> come on, Doug. >> Come on, Doug. >> I mean, he lived a good long life there based on the timeline. >> That's for sure. We got Damon in Arkansas. Damon, how can we help today?

>> Uh, yes. Hello. Thank Thank you for taking my call. Um, I recently uh got

done paying off my student loans. I I didn't graduate. I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, but uh I'm I'm at a point now where I'm the sole

provider for me, my wife, and our our

four kids. Uh we have two children who

have been diagnosed with autism that'll uh she has to stay at home with with

them. Um, so again, I'm the I'm the sole provider, but I have I have a car note

for 15,000. Um,

then I have my mortgage for I think it's

I think I have 150,000 left left on there. Should I go back to school?

Should I >> should I pay more debt to I work in a

factory? >> What do you make?

>> $17 an hour.

>> Okay. Yes. That was about 35 grand a year. Is that full-time, 40 hours a week? >> Yes. >> And what did you go to school for originally that you didn't finish?

>> I was a physics major.

>> Okay. So, what would you go back to school for today if you were to choose a different career path?

>> Still don't know. Uh I see a lot of the

people in in this factory have degrees

that I would have not even have considered uh would have gotten them their positions. But uh it almost feels like I just need a degree in anything.

>> Well, I don't want you to get a degree for the sake of getting a degree and then you're back where you are going, "Okay, now what? Nobody handed me a job all of a sudden." So, I want you to have some aim and purpose with this. And we can help with that. we'll send you our friend uh Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

It has the Get Clear Career Assessment inside and I think it'll help point you in the right direction. Um but in the meantime, I mean, 17 bucks an hour, you can make doing just about anything.

You could triple your income within a couple years. >> Yeah. because that that does bring up the bigger question which is whether you went in trades, whether you needed certificates, whether you needed a degree, what what would be the plan in your mind to pay for this? Because George and I definitely don't want you to go further into debt uh for education. We value education. We just don't want you to go into debt for it.

So, what do you think a plan could look like?

I would like to not have any debt at all

uh at some point with having my car paid off and getting my mortgage paid off. Um

>> ultimately I want to have no debt.

>> I think I >> How are you getting by right now? I'm curious. Damon, you're making 35k a year. You got the car payment. You got the mortgage. You got four kids, a stay-at-home spouse. How have you been surviving? It is a struggle every month, man. Every

month it I mean we we have a nothing on

paper budget but essentially we just

have what our bills that we have to pay

and then whatever's left over you know is our food, our gas, we we make I make

not enough to have anything left over at the end of the month. >> Well, you're able to cover all the bills just nothing more. You're not going into debt to cover any bills.

>> Yes. >> Wow, that's impressive. I just want to applaud you for making all this work, even without a budget, which I encourage you to make one and I'm going to hook you hook you up with every dollar, which will give you that plan as well as the Get Clear Career Assessment. >> Now, how were you able to pay off the student loans on this?

>> Uh I I had I was I had a different job.

I was getting different hours. And uh we we moved to uh this town where I'm at

now. And uh I I lost that job and now

this is I just we we had some residual

income left over that >> we decided like okay, you know, I may be able to go back to college and get a better income. Let's just toss it towards these what's left of my student loans. I've been paying on them for a decade. >> What were you making before and what type of work were you doing?

>> Uh I was in a tipped position so it's

tough to say. Uh, I made 55,000

in 2025.

Yes. 2024, excuse me. Uh, and I was a I

was a cage cashier. I paid people jackpots. Usually people were pretty happy to see me. >> Oh, okay. Well, the good news is you've seen a higher earning potential. Like, you've seen, okay, I know I can go out in the world and make $55,000.

I would just apply that. Honestly, if I were you, I might just get curious and start looking online and just start applying for things. You can do that for free, right? And and start uh Ken Coleman would say to use your proximity and see who you know, ask around, ask your friends.

I'd make a list. My goal tonight would be I'd make a list of 10 to 15 people that I can reach out to and say, you know, what are you doing? Have you heard anything? Is there anybody hiring and what you're doing?

Are people working places where they need employees? And that would be a great way just to get started just to see what what can I pull from? And who knows, you could end up landing something where you're making a little bit more and that could lead to the next step while you're figuring out the work that you're actually wired to do here.

Very, very good question. >> Hang on the line. will send you that assessment and every dollar. Damon.

>> All right, let's go to Caleb who's in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Hey, Caleb.

How can George and I help real quick?

>> Hi. How you guys doing?

>> We're doing good. We're right up against the clock. How can we help you?

>> All right. So, I am currently on baby step two, but I'm going to be out of baby step two in about two and a half months. Uh, when I get out of it, I did

some budgeting. I realized I'm going to have about $2,700 every single month

just for free. >> Nice. >> And my expenses are going to be like my six-month emergency fund is literally going to be less than baby step one. And so I do need to buy a car and I'm looking to buy a car and obviously my emergency fund is going to change when I have to buy insurance. So my question is one, should I buy a brand new car or a

piece of crap? And then two, how much should my emergency fund be since my expenses are so low?

>> Yeah, very good question. First one is, I love that you're going to free up that much margin. What is so urgent that you need a new car right away? Because if I could hold off on the new car and save the emergency fund first, I would do the emergency fund first. And you want to build your emergency fund based on your

current or very quickly foreseeable monthly expenses. It's a barebones budget. So, this is if I took out all the bells and whistles of my budget that aren't necessity and I said, "Okay, it's rent, it's transportation, it's insuranceances, it's daycare, all those things that if you hit an emergency situation, maybe you lost your job, maybe there is a diagnosis." Obviously, there'd be certain nicities you'd probably cut away and you'd keep things down to bare bones. So, 3 to 6 months is what I' I'd aim from.

If you know you need a car, I'd save up the 3 months, do the car, and then come back and do the 6 months. But if the car is really just something that's a nice to have, George, I would go ham on the 6 months since it's just you. And then I would start to save up for the car that you want. And I would I would not go, "Hey, it's either going to be the worst car I've ever seen or the nicest car I've ever seen." Get something reasonable.

>> My income right now is about 4,500 a year. 45 45,000 or yeah 45,000 I was like goodness gracious man what are they paying you over there okay so 45 grand a year you're single >> yes >> is this the only thing with wheels and motors in your life is this one car

>> yeah I don't have a car currently >> okay cool so you want no more than 20k and for a guy your age I think 20k is even the upper upper limit I might shoot for something more like in the 15 range that'll just get you from A to B it's decent It's used. Do not go buy a new car. Don't go to the dealership cuz they're going to try to get you into a giant payment and go, "Man, you can get the brand new one for just a little bit more. What kind of payment are you looking for?" You're paying cash.

You're buying used. And I would I like the idea of a $10,000 emergency fund.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. [music] Absolutely.

Well, George, it's been fun, but it's also over. >> A I'm sorry. Hey, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that is to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus. Heat.

Heat.

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## 32. Debt Steals Your Freedom - Fight For Financial Peace | December 10, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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---

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, is my co-host today. Open phones at 88255225.

Nicole is in San Francisco. Hi, Nicole.

How are you?

>> Hey, good morning. Merry Christmas.

>> Merry Christmas to you. What's up?

>> Hey, so I just have a question, a rental question. My my fiance and I have been together for almost three years, and we're getting married at the end of December. We're very excited. And after the the wedding, we're planning on moving in together, obviously. Um the home that he's living in is a home that he actually lived in with his ex. Uh so

his name his ex's name, I just found out recently, is still on the lease. Again, it is a rental. He's tried multiple times to get her to take her name off.

He even um had a court order via some of their custody um hearings that the judge said she had to take her name off. She still refuses to do so. um his property management company isn't being responsive. I'm a realer and I spoke with our property management division and they said that basically we have three options.

One, the property management company can just out of the goodness of their heart take her name off and redo the lease with just his and my name. Uh two, get her to sign the paperwork, which he's been trying to do unsuccessfully, or three, terminate the lease, likely forfeit the deposit because her name would be on the check and then move out and move back in.

on it. U, mind you, they also have a child together. There's a lot of really gross custody situation going on. So, it's not just an ex that we never hear from or speak to. It's, you know, an ongoing problem in our life. And I just I don't know if it's worth am I being dramatic in like the potential issues financially and like losing deposit >> when is the lease up?

>> Well, it was up and he's he's continued

to live in the home. So they broke up.

>> No, I mean when is the current when does the current lease expire?

>> It it's a month to month now.

>> Oh, okay. So you can give 30 days notice

and move out.

We could. >> Okay. >> And then we would have to find a new place. >> Then you just find a new place.

>> That's easy. Okay. Now, the however, let's let's back up a second. She does not have a say in this. Okay. Her name

being on the lease is making her

obligated for the payment on the lease.

It doesn't give her any rights to possession.

Okay. It just it's just like if if if uh

someone co-signs a lease >> for you to move in, like your dad signed for you to move in or something. It doesn't give him rights to live there.

It just says that he's also liable. And

so the property management company can simply reddraft the lease and take her name off of it. They don't have to have her permission to do that. They can just take her off, >> okay? >> And put you on. And so, you know, what I

would do is just call the property management company. And I don't know why your fiance's not handled this. This is really bizarre to me. This is on him.

Okay. And you're right. This is gross.

And it should have been dealt with a long time before you three weeks before you get married. >> Geez. >> Mhm. >> Call me up a week for we're going down the aisle next week and I'm not going to you Well, yeah. So, but anyway, so I'm if it's me, I'm calling the property management company. I'm your fiance and I'm saying, "Look, I want my wife to be on our lease, not my ex."

And so, we are going to give you two options. One is you reddraft the lease with me and the new wife on it without the X on it, or we're going to give you 30 days notice of move. Which one do you want us to do?

>> Okay. >> And I'll get your responsive. I'll just move. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Right. Okay. But you don't need her permission or a court order regarding

her. The landlord simply just needs to agree to release her from liability.

>> Okay. >> She gets no rights.

>> There's no rights here at all.

>> And she hasn't lived there in a long time. And so I don't know why why it would even be an issue, >> right? I don't know. That's just the >> Well, apparently this chick has got issues and she's throwing anything she can around to try to do power plays,

>> any any kind of a flex that's possible and you're just worried about that, right?

>> Right. And yeah, and I >> Right. And again, it just feels gross moving in with >> you. Yeah. You don't want to show up in a house that I live in. It's not going to be good for your health.

>> Don't do that. What's the upside of continuing for him to live there and you to move in there? Why not just get a different place? >> Yeah. >> Well, as you know, San Francisco is a very expensive market. Um, he has rent

of very very very little. Um, the

property magic of the landlord um was very gracious. He has not they've not raised the rent in like the four or five years he's lived here. Um, it's a very it's thousands of dollars less than anywhere else. Yeah. >> That we found.

>> I don't want to live there.

>> I just wonder even though her name there and and I don't care if it's thousands of dollars less or not. I don't want to live there unless her name is off this lease and yours is on it, >> right? Yeah. I I feel the same way.

>> I want to move. So, either fix it or I'm moving. And that's my direction to your fiance. Grow a backbone. You should have already done this eight months ago for your girlfriend, your soon tobe wife, and you've sat on your thumbs now. Fix this, buddy. That's my direction to him.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> He shouldn't You shouldn't have to be calling me about this. He should have already taken care of this. It's bull crap. Okay. But he's also gets pushed around by her pretty regularly. And that's what's really bothering you at the core of this. >> And I'm not sure that's going to stop even with this lease situation fixed.

>> Nope. Not till we run down to a Walmart on aisle 3 and pick up a a backbone.

That's what that's going to happen. So, all right. Open phones at8255225.

So, a lease is an obligation. It is not

a blessing. Being released from the

obligation would be a blessing.

>> Is that the opposite of a lease? Is it release? >> There we go. Released from the lease.

Yes. But I mean, so I mean, think about it. It's like a loan. Okay. If you go through a a divorce and you have a mortgage loan, your spouse is on is liable on the mortgage loan, the mortgage company doesn't won't let her go. Won't let him go, right? Unless you

refinance and take them off. They they won't they won't just release you from that because >> prove that you're responsible enough to handle. >> But you don't have any rights because you're on the mortgage. You have lost rights because you're on the mortgage.

Same thing with a lease. >> Yeah. So there's not a there's no uh benefit to >> it's just risk and liability part >> other than I guess control to stay intermingled in his life. >> Yeah. Just to be constantly flexing.

>> Only reason I can think of why you'd want to stay on that thing. >> That's all the more reason to put up >> cuz he could stop paying and it's on her. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> There's one move. >> Yeah. Well, it's just I'm moving. I'm moving. >> Yeah. Not worth the drama. That's for sure. >> Nothing Nothing is worth the drama.

>> Oh goodness. Don't sell your soul for a

couple thousand bucks savings on something. Don't Don't sign Don't sign up for lack of freedom and drama and

call that a good deal. That's not a good deal.

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Rachel's in Columbia, South Carolina.

Hi, Rachel. How are you?

>> Rachel.

>> Earth to Rachel.

>> Rachel. Three, two,

>> we got We had her right there. There she was. >> Okay, I'll try I'll try her again. She came up. We'll try it again. Rachel, are you there now?

Yes, I'm here. >> Okay. How can we help?

>> Um, I'm actually calling because how do I even start the baby steps when I am absolutely drowning and even trying to get caught up on my bills?

>> Well, getting caught up would be the first step before you start the baby steps. You're right. You're you're on to something there. So, why are you drowning?

Um, I actually had some health issues

over the past year.

>> Um, that I'm I've missed so much work.

I've had to find another job of cuz I

believe my last job was killing me and

that required a pay cut and I'm working from home now and

it's just getting caught back up.

>> Okay. Well, you got the exact wrong solution for being behind on your bills, taking a pay cut. We want to go the other way. So, what in the world? What's wrong with your health?

>> Um, well, I my job was very unsteady

where I was at. And they working from

home to being pulled back into the office and I just started having a bunch of anxiety attacks. And >> working in the office caused anxiety.

It was I the people I was around and

then they started doing layoffs and it was just a very stressful situation.

>> Okay. What were you doing?

>> Um I do medical billing. My job is not hard. >> Okay. So that's what you were doing at the other place.

>> Correct. And that's >> And what were you being what were you being paid?

Um, I was being paid around um 45. It

wasn't a huge pay cut. I'm at about 40,000 now. >> Okay. And how much debt do you have?

>> Um, I have about

120,000 without mortgage.

>> Okay. And what's that on?

>> Um, 6,000 is about my medical debt.

um 14,687

for um a boat. I have student loans and

about that's about 10,000.

We have a truck that's 37 thou well it's

about 38,000 and then I have a Jeep that's about 41,000.

>> Mhm. >> Um I have credit card.

>> You just said we What's your husband make? Um, he makes about 70,000.

>> Okay. So, you have $110,000 income currently. >> All right. And you got a Jeep, a truck, a boat.

>> Yes, sir. >> And then is what else was it? Student loan and a medical debt. And what else?

>> And two credit cards. And that's about 2,000. >> Okay. >> And we do have um IRS debt. Well, my

husband does, so I say we. And I think that's probably about 8,000.

>> Mhm. Okay. All right. Yeah. Okay.

But so your $5,000 pay cut didn't really cause you any trouble. It's all your overspending that's caused you trouble.

>> And I can agree to that.

>> Yeah. So, uh, you're not going to like

me.

Sell the truck. Sell the Jeep. Sell the boat.

>> Okay. Oh, I'm starting to get my life back now.

>> Mhm. >> I mean, you'd clear the majority of your debt if you did that. What stopped you guys thus far from getting rid of these things that are crushing you?

>> I will say the boat that is all we do is

>> I don't care. >> I think you should be instead of boating. >> You're calling me talking about you're so stressed out, you can't breathe and you're $120,000 in debt. You can't afford a boat. You're broke.

go to the park and throw a Frisbee.

>> Yeah.

>> You're not going to do any of this, are you? >> You're not really ready. You're not really in enough pain to fix this. You just You want an easy button. I don't have one, honey. The only button I got is the one that'll work. I love you enough tell you the truth. And the truth is, you got to sell this crap. You've been spending like you're in Congress.

And you're rationalizing and justifying and rationalizing and justifying. And only when you look up and go, I caused this and I can fix this. Are you going to be able to fix it? I can tell from the tone of your voice, you're not going to do any of it. So, when you're ready to be helped, we can help you. And we love you and we'll try to help you, but we're not going to tell you what you want to hear. We're going to tell you what really helps. And so, we're we're

really not known for telling telling people, making people feel good. That's not the point. We want you to feel good 10 years from now, not today. Today, I

want you to h have pain so that you can

get free of this trashy life you have.

Your life sucks. You make $110,000

in Columbia, South Carolina, and you

gave up a job because of anxiety at the

office. And really, the anxiety was at home, sitting in the driveway with a boat and a jeep and a truck.

That's where it was. So, yeah, you you just got a bunch of crap you can't afford. you're you're living like, you know, you're spending like you got money and you don't have any money. I'm sorry, honey, but we can help you when you're ready to do that, but you're gonna have to amputate some crap and that'll give you your life back. Until you're ready to do that, though, I don't have an easy button for you. I can't help you. Kevin is in New York. Hey, Kevin. What's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, I was just looking for some help.

I'm uh married, 33, and I'm having some

trouble with the fear of kicking Murphy out, as you guys would say. So, I'm looking for a big old kick in the butt um to help me get rid of some irrational fears on that. >> I'm so confused. What are we talking about? um in your book kicking Murphy out is one of the chapters for um basically

lowering your savings to um like

emergency fund to a thousand and then putting that all towards debt. So like I think it's Murphy's law >> temporar to temporarily do that so that

you can get the debt cleaned as fast as possible.

>> We're not living we're not living there forever.

>> Yeah. having trouble with is I'm I'm afraid that something's going to happen in the meantime um to a car or medically

or something. Yeah. >> Um >> it it might it might How much debt have you got?

>> Right now between me and my wife um we

have about $25,000

debt between >> And what's your household income?

Household income together is8,600 a month. >> Okay. So, how fast do you clear up $25,000?

>> Um, I'm I'm looking at

August other than the car August and then after that I would say within a year about 12 months.

>> Yeah. 2,000 bucks a month and you'll be done. So, for 12 months you got to make it on $1,000. And if something during that 12-month period of time happens beyond $1,000, you'll have to stop your

get out of debt plan and and pile up some cash to fix whatever it is that's beyond $1,000. The probability of that's very close to zero, though.

>> That's I I think the fear comes from childhood or something. That's my fear is that something just something's going to happen. >> Yeah, that is a rational fear. I don't even know where it comes from either, but it it walking around with $1,000

only to your name for the rest of your life would be stupid because common sense tells you something's going to happen, right?

>> Yeah. >> So, your fear is I I I think your fear is justified, but it's not justified enough to stay in debt.

How much money have you got in savings?

>> Um, right now about 15,000.

>> Okay. So, wait a minute. We have 25 in debt. We're not in debt for a year. If you put 14 towards the 25, that's only 11 left. You should be done in like 3 months.

>> Yeah. If the 15 was uh without putting

it towards it. Yeah. >> Um >> Yeah. So, could you take half your take-home pay and throw it at the debt if you cut down your expenses and worked harder? >> Right now, we put Yeah. Right now, we put 1,800 um a month towards um the

emergency fund. >> Okay. What what I would do is I would throw everything at the debt and that leaves you $11,000 worth of debt. You make $8,000 a month and I would be done with the debt in 3 months.

>> You don't need to keep stacking this emergency fund. You need to start killing this debt. Man, >> this is Dude, you're acting like you're acting like this is a 30-year problem.

It's a 90day problem. I mean, when the leaves turn green, you're going to be done.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did.

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One of our favorite things is hearing people share their stories of how they're winning. We just heard this from Claire and Winston fan quote. Uh, this is me and my husband's third month budgeting with every dollar and we're amazed at how much money we found. We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding an extra $3,500 in margin each month to put towards our debt. We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off, never going back.

>> Way to go, guys. That's amazing. Hey guys, you can do this, too. You can take control of your money.

>> You can change your family tree and you can live like no one else. Go download the Every Dollar Budget app for free. It will guide you handholding through the Ramsay steps, the Ramsey plan, the Ramsey process, the stuff you hear on the air. This app will walk you right through it and cause you to do it. You'll get out of debt, become wealthy and outrageously generous, and we'll show you how. Come on, baby. Let's do this. It's time. Courtney's with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Courtney. How are you?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I'm so excited. >> Well, we're honored to have you. How can we help? Well, I want to start by saying that my husband and I are completely debtree minus our current home and our

rental property.

>> Um, my question today is regarding our rental property. Okay, Dave. So, my parents are the tenants and it's not going well and it has not been going well for the past 11 years. I wanted to help them out. So, um, because they could no longer afford their home. So, I wanted to be a good daughter and help out my parents. The issue is that they're not communicating with us. The rent is late each month. Um, for example, Dave, um, I received November's rent last Friday, which was December 5th. No communication. Um, I have

diligently made sure each month I

communicate with them um, for the past year about the rent, but nothing's changed. Um, I've asked them to move in with us. The answer is no. I've asked them to think about moving into something cheaper. The answer is no.

I've asked them, "Do I need to set aside money to get a bigger home with the mother-in-law unit?" The answer again is no, Dave, I sent them through Financial Peace University. Nothing has changed.

Um, I only owe $60,000 on my rental

property in California. That's really, really good. Um, this is supposed to be part of my retirement money towards my kids college fund. We sacrifice so much,

Dave. this process and your principles have helped us so much. Things that I had no idea we would be able to accomplish, but we have. I'm just I need help, Dave. I don't know what to do.

>> Share your wisdom.

>> Well, um,

you're not shocked that your parents have not paid this on time, and I'm not shocked that they've not paid it on time. They've never paid anything in their lives on time. And you knew when you stuck them in there that they weren't instantaneously going to become financial geniuses.

You you you had to know that this was going to happen.

So you signed up for this trip, right?

>> Oh my goodness. Yes.

>> Yeah. I'm sorry. It's so hard when it's

family and especially your mom and dad and you're trying to do something nice for them. So you kind of got one of two options.

One is give up.

One none of the options are going to be try to talk them into becoming financially responsible.

That obviously doesn't work. So that's not that's not one of the options we're going to try. That's been that that ship has sailed. We've been try we tried it.

Okay. So either you give up and you pay the house off. It's only $60,000. Let's get over and get it paid off and just let them live there. And then when they pay and if they pay, be surprised.

>> Okay? and just surrender.

That that's giving up. Okay? If you want to do that, that's not a bad thing, but you're just saying whatever that house is worth, I'm just pissing that money away and in the name of taking care of my parents and that's I'm just going to live with that and I'm not going to fret about it because happiness comes, you

know, I always laugh when I'm playing golf. My golf motto is the secret to happiness is low expectations.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So if you quit expecting them to be something that they're not going to be, then you can just chill, right? So you're just going to let them live there and if they pay, we're going to act surprised. Okay? And that's not a bad plan. You you could get the 60,000 paid off in a few years or few months or whatever and not worry about it, couldn't you? The other option, if you want to be a little more,

>> shall we say, aggressive, okay? Then I

can help you with that one, too. you can call them and say, "Mom and dad, I talked to my financial adviser. I'm your financial adviser." And he said to sell

this house, and so we're going to put the house on the market and sell it. So, y'all are going to have to find a place to live.

>> Okay? >> And they just go figure out their life cuz they're like grown-ups and crap. And they ought figuring out their life long time ago without being babysat by their own daughter. So, hello. How old are these people?

Um, my dad is what, 65? My mom is 64.

>> Yeah. So, get a job and go pay your rent. Shut up. I mean, come on.

>> So, let's play the scenario. They have they go rent somewhere and they have a landlord now. Do you think they're going to pay on time? >> Well, that's up to them.

That's their problem. >> All of a sudden, >> that's their problem. Yeah. >> I think they they'd quickly figure it out, wouldn't they?

They go, >> we're not we're not giving an option of you have to pay on time or we're selling it. You just say, I talked to my financial adviser. He says we got to sell the house.

Uh, we're going to put the house on the market February 1st. So, y'all got to be gone by then. So, y'all look for a place cuz we got to get the house sold. Well, what about Listen, I you know, we it worked for a while. You were here for 11 years and now we can't do it anymore.

And the financial adviser says I got to sell it. So, I got to sell it cuz I'm telling you, you got to sell it. So, you can blame me. Just say my my financial adviser. I'm I'm the bad guy. Okay? And and you know, but that puts them back out and to deal with the reality of their misbehavior. And that's actually not a bad thing either. But uh but then

you can't be running and rescuing them every time they stub their toe. You got to just let them go. >> I just love you. >> Have to learn how to do that. >> Some people need to be loved from further distance than others.

You need a little more distance between you and them. >> If you stop the enabling, then it'll also stop the resentment that's been bubbling up in your life. >> Just say, "Gosh, you're over there and I sure hope it works out for you. I love you. Be cheering for you." And you know,

I I'm not going to worry about it after that. It's their problem. You've done all you can do and then 11 years too much. Right.

>> Correct. >> So, I mean, it didn't like you didn't try. You're a sweetheart. You tried everything. So, if you want to cut them loose, you could do that and and you would not be doing something immoral or unethical or unbiblical or anything like that because you you gave you gave 11 years worth of enabling a shot here and it didn't work. So, um yeah. So either

just give up and pay it off and let them live there and don't worry about it and just be shocked when they do pay. Don't bring it up again. Don't communicate about it. Don't even mention it ever again. Just if the check comes, the rent

check shows up, JUST BE, "WOW, I'm so shocked." I mean, just have that attitude about it and then you'll be fine. Or put the house on the market February 1st and tell him to go find a place to live and blame it on your financial adviser and I'll take that role. Actually, it's George. George is your favorite. >> You can blame me. I I can handle that. He >> His name is George. Your financial advisor's name. >> Last name. I love it. It reminds me of

the old quote. If they wanted to, they would. If they wanted to pay on time, they would. If they wanted to become debtree, they would.

And so, you just can't change people. >> Guy used that on me in my 20s when I was late for everything. He says, "You're late for everything." I said, "Well, I'm busy. I'm busy." He goes, "If you want to be on time, you would." >> And you know what?

Pissed me off. I'm >> But he was right. >> And I'm not late anymore. You were very punctual.

That's actually shocking. But there was a time >> it's arrogant to be late. You're making a statement to the people that they don't matter. >> That's the at the root of this is a lack of respect.

It's a lack of respect for their daughter and the kindness that she's offered them. >> Yep. >> To say, "Hey, we're not going to pay on time." >> Yep. >> Even that's what we agreed to.

We're not people of integrity. >> It's um smells like a parasite.

>> Yeah. It's just sad when your parents are qualified as that. >> It muddies the waters. Which is why I I personally would not sign up to my mom and dad. not have signed up and become their landlord. >> Nope. >> Cuz they remember when they change your diaper. Nope. >> So, it just makes it awkward when now you're demanding rent payment.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's >> Sorry, mom and dad. We got to sell the house. Yeah. I mean, >> it's the easiest way. It's the nicest way to evict someone is just to get rid of the whole situation. >> Yeah. Just start from scratch. >> You don't have to go into all why? And you don't have to go into you don't pay the rent on time, so you don't have to go into we've begged you. We've tried.

You don't have to try to be corrective with it. There's no point in that cuz it's not going to work. It's just clean.

Just like gosh, you know, sorry, y'all got to look for places for selling the house. So, either that or just pay the thing off and quit worrying about it.

Either one. Either one's okay. Either one's okay. You're a good daughter.

Either way, you gave it a run, >> but it's living in your head rent free.

And currently, they're basically living in your house rent free. >> There's a lot of free rent here.

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Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Craig in New York.

I'm 70 years old, still working, and I'm now a high- netw worth individual thanks to your principles. I agree with 99% of what you say, but here's the 1% I don't agree with. I have a $320,000 mortgage

at $2.75% on a property that's worth $4

million. I paid extra for years, and at this point, over half of my monthly payment goes to principal, and the rest goes to interest. The house payment is a small percentage of my monthly income, and I'm making way more interest on the over 320K I have in savings than the house interest is costing me. Why would I consider paying off that mortgage?

It's like a common core math riddle here. Sleep.

You'll sleep better.

And you don't even know it.

It's a very small problem for you.

You're not going to go bankrupt because of this. You're not going to not become a millionaire. Apparently, you already have. So, congratulations. But you didn't become a millionaire because you borrowed $320,000. You became a millionaire because you saved money and got out of debt.

And I got to tell you, you you have no idea, Craig.

It's going to blow your mind. The peace

peace is going to run down your spine when you pay this off. You're going to feel it physically and you're going to sleep better.

It's that simple. And um debt equals

risk. And risk has a math factor to it

that you did not use in your little formula. So your formula is naive and incomplete.

So if you adjust for risk mathematically, the money that you're making on your high yield savings over the top of 2.75 isn't spit and won't buy

you a biscuit.

So you're really not some financial genius here. At the end of the day, you're actually fairly naive about it.

But it's okay if you want to keep your mortgage like it's a pet. That's fine.

But some people keep pet snakes. I don't.

>> I don't have any pet snakes. You got any pet snakes? >> Zero. >> Okay. I think they're uh they're of the devil. >> Got zero mortgages, too.

>> That's true. Yeah. This even the math isn't that impressive on this. When you go, well, I could make three and a half, but the mortgage is 2.75.

>> So, if you make 1% on this, you made 3,200 bucks. $250 a month. That's not worth me taking the call for this. It's a biscuit. I mean, really.

>> And you can now invest the mortgage payment and make up for lost time.

>> And it's not even what it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. All this it's it's hilarious that it's like I can borrow $4 and make us and make and make

money on my $4. Who cares?

>> As a portion of your net worth and your income, this is not worth. It's irrelevant. The property is worth 4 million. You know, it's so you keep it.

You keep your little mortgage if you want to pet it on the head and if you like pet snakes. I don't like pet snakes, even small ones. And so they're

all they're all poisonous as far as I'm concerned. I hate >> the oxymorate the large banks. I hate the car companies financing and putting people in debt. I'm sick and tired of the federal government ensuring 18year-olds can borrow $100,000 and they can't even buy beer.

And so, but but we're going to put them in debt because we're going to help help you out. We're from the Congress and we're going to team up with the big banks. And the big banks in Congress when they team up is never good for the regular people.

It's never good for us regular folk. So, I'm sick of these people praying on everybody and and then, you know, turn it in into sophisticated bull crap. It's

not sophisticated at all. So, Craig, I'd pay it off, but you're not going to. So, good luck with that.

>> It'll become someone else's problem. Your your kids will deal with the estate planning and pay it off for you. >> It's not a big This really doesn't matter. So, Carolina is in Las Vegas.

Hi, Carolina. How are you?

>> I'm doing great. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I just wanted to ask how you would recommend paying off $90,000 in

debt uh while in school and saving for

my daughter's college fund.

>> Uh, okay. Are you married?

>> Yes, I am. >> What does your husband make?

>> Uh, he makes 2,800 a month.

>> And you're in school studying what?

Um, I'm getting my master's in applied behavior analysis.

>> To do what?

>> Uh, to work with children with disabilities would be to be a supervisor. >> Okay. All right. Making what?

>> In the future. >> Mhm.

>> Um, it says on the internet, right? Um, it says that I would make close to 100,000 a year.

>> Um, and that's what I know. Between 90 to 100. >> What's your husband do? Mhm.

>> Um he is a driving instructor.

>> Okay. And what's his plan for his career?

>> Um so in January he starts welding school. Um so he's trying to do that.

>> Excellent. How old are you guys? 23.

>> I'm 28 and he is 33.

>> Oh, missed that. Okay. And and your

baby's how old?

>> She just turned six.

>> Okay. Well, the formula that we have to

work with is income minus outgo.

Your income is low because you're not working and he's not working much or he's not making much. It's a better way of saying it. Right. Right.

>> You guys haven't got a lot. It's not like you're buying coach purses on the weekend. Okay. I mean, you're you don't have any money. 2,800 in a family of three and you're in school. Who's how you paying for school?

Um, so I took out a $50,000 loan.

>> And when do you finish school?

>> Uh, 18 months.

>> Okay. >> And total balance of student loans is 90K. And there's more debt on top of

that. >> Uh, no. No. It's 90k debt in total.

Yeah. >> Okay. I don't think you're going to get out of debt until you get your income up. But the good news is you have plans to get both of you to get your income up.

I mean, his income is going to double when he gets gets his welding certificate or more depending on what he's doing and and then you're going to get out in 18 months and make money and then you guys are going to plow through this. But right now, you're making $34,000 a year and you have a little baby. So, you're probably not going to make big dents in this 90K. Is that fair?

>> Yeah. >> But I would work. I mean, you can work and he can work and you can do side jobs and let's let's do what we can to bring in extra money because you don't have much money coming in.

>> I'm looking forward to the day that your shovel is bigger in order to fill up this hole, >> right? >> And that that's what I think and and that's okay. That's not the end of the world. Don't go in any more debt. Okay.

>> Yeah. We we um like turned off our

credit cards and things like that.

>> Like I want to turn off these student loans. >> No more. >> Yeah. >> No more student loans.

>> Can you finish school with no more student loans?

>> Yeah. That's 50,000 for the entire entire course. >> Okay. >> And to your question, I would not be investing in a college fund right now.

No. We've got a priority of knocking out this debt. And so every dollar needs to go toward that. We'll make up for lost time in a few years and you'll still have a great runway of a decade to save up for college. >> You make you make 30 something thousand a year now, you'll be making $130 in 24

to 36 months and you knock this debt out

and then you start saving for college and you work right up the baby steps the way we teach. But today, you don't have extra cash laying around to do either.

>> And so, uh, first thing is take care of your own household. Don't add any more debt. And then if you can scratch together a little bit more, both of you working some extra jobs or something, you want to throw something at the 90, doesn't make me mad, but I'm just not going to put heavy expectations on you because again, you have a very a $90,000 hole and a small income. That's your

shovel. So, but the good news is you're

doing something about that. Both of you are going to get sizable upgrades in income, and that's just wonderful. Good for you. Congratulations.

Very cool, man. The trades, the trades are the answer for a lot of these folks.

A lot of people moving that direction nowadays. And so >> people are wondering where all the jobs are. Trades. >> Step into the welding, step into the diesel mechanic, step into the heavy equipment operator, and you step into six figures pretty quick.

>> And um makes Mike Row happy to hear that. And it's uh but he's right. He's he's on to something. He's been on to something since before it was cool. He was an early adopter.

>> But there you go. Good stuff.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. John is

with us in Huntsville. Hey John, how are you? >> Doing well. Doing well. Thank you guys for taking the call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Kind of stuck in a financial and a moral dilemma and I don't know which way to go. >> Okay. Uh brief backstory is

father passed away about 12 years ago.

Uh I inherited the business solely. Uh built it up. Now I've sold it off.

The moral side of that is none of my

family members knows that I've sold it yet. And um they weren't part of it.

They had no business dealings with it.

But after our father died, it just seemed like I was the sibling that everyone came to for everything, you know, and just listening

to you guys, you know, I think that

with the sale of that business and selling the home I'm currently in, I would wind up being debtree completely and have quite a bit at, you know, 46 years old to be able to retire with.

And I'm just I'm wondering I guess, you know, have I been too deceptive with with what's going on or

it's like nobody ever calls to say, "Hey, how are you doing?" It's always, "Hey, I need this or that or the other." And I guess I'm too much like my dad in that that respect.

>> Okay. Um I don't know. Um,

it it sounds like you're um to to what extent have you been helping?

How much money or what have you been doing?

>> I've bailed one brother out of two different mortgages twice.

>> Mhm. >> Um >> to the tune of like a hundred grand or something.

>> A couple hundred thousand. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, you gave him a couple hundred,000.

It was it was a uh it was a loan and uh I know I know where you're going with that, but I haven't been paid back. I've gotten about 30,000 of it back.

>> Yeah. >> But that was >> What about what about everybody else? What about everybody else?

>> Uh one sister um if we're keeping track,

she probably owes me around 65,000 >> for what?

>> Uh apparently there were some uh medical procedures that I was told was dire.

um that was more cosmetic than medical.

>> Mhm. >> And >> Okay. >> You know, our dad, >> have you have you have you made the determination that this was really not helpful in the end that their lives pretty much ended up about where they began and so you really didn't cause them to suddenly become prosperous with your gifts?

>> That is great. >> Yeah. So, does that give you the courage does that give you the courage to say no next time?

>> There's there's where a problem lies because I I I really it's not a they

always play on that you know how daddy was kind of thing. >> Well, daddy's gone, honey. And that and so now you're daddy. You got to grow up and I can't help you. You got already gave you 200 grand. I already gave you 60 grand to have your tummy tucked and I'm done.

I mean that grow up. These are grown

people. Now, you don't have to be that mean to them, but that's what needs to go through your head so that you can just smile and say, "Gosh, I hope it works out for you." But I'm not daddy.

Daddy's gone.

>> Yeah. So, I've in the one good thing was the business broker that we were involved with uh had mentioned, you know, have you ever heard of this program? And of course I, you know, I grew up in Franklin, so I' I'd heard of y'all's y'all's courses and stuff before >> and I just felt like from a deception side of it cuz literally moving completely out of state.

>> I don't you know, you could just tell them I sold the business, own my house, but you don't you don't owe them any explanation or cut.

You know that, right?

>> Yes, sir. I think there's some survivors guilt here because you've done well and you've seen them struggle and you go, "Well, I guess they deserve some of this because you're a good person, but the problem is you're being manipulated and abused." >> Yeah. >> By these people and the only time they reach out to you is for more money, right?

>> More money or >> So you're Bank of John >> work done at their Yeah. >> There's no relationship to salvage here.

If you keep giving them more money, you just continue the transaction. >> So no, I you you don't have an obligation. So there's not real deception, but you're just not wanting to tell them because you think they're going to come for money. They want some of it.

And so and you're you're you're just going to have to get emotionally prepared because at some point this is going to come out. >> Whether you make a big deal about it or whether you don't, if you just go, "Oh yeah, by the way, I'm leaving. We sold the house. We sold the business." Um what?

Yeah. Yeah. That's what we're doing. And so, you know, um we'll stay in touch and let you know where we land cuz we love you.

as far as like because like I said I am 46. Um and you know I just kind of I

want not want to retire fully. I just I

just want to relax for a while. Like I've been working with my dad since I was seven and I'm I'm tired. >> Yeah. What kind of business did you sell?

>> It was a uh a construction services company. >> Okay. Good for you.

>> All right. So, the f first let's stay with the first part of the conversation for a moment and then we'll come to the second part. >> The first part of the conversation, sir, is you need to pick up Henry Cloud's book. It's called boundaries.

You don't have any >> That's called boundaries. >> Boundaries. Your boundaries. You don't have any fences. Fences are down on your farm and the animals keep getting in and the animals keep getting out and you need fences. Okay? You know what I'm

talking about. you your no button is broken and you need to fix it because you're not really helping. You're just being weak.

Am I wrong?

>> It's hard to hear, but no, you're not wrong. >> Okay. So, just fix your no button.

That's good for your brother. It's good for your sister. If you want to call them, if they call up and say something, just go, "Hey, listen. I tell you what I'm going to do. That money that you that I loaned you, just don't worry about it. Forget it for because you're not going to get it anyway, by the way.

But so ju just forgive it and and say but but we're done. We won't be doing any more business transactions. Okay?

You're my brother. You're my sister. I love you, but we're not doing any more money transactions. Those loans are forgiven. I'm not going to make that mistake again. So don't ask. And just you need to get you need to fix your no button. It's broken. Now then that sets you up with the money that you've made.

And so what' the business sell for? How much you got?

>> Uh 1,230,000.

>> Congratulations. That's not enough to retire on at 46, >> but it is enough. >> I already have >> But it is enough. >> I already have some saved. >> How much?

>> Uh two and a quart million.

>> Okay. All right. So, you got $3 million net worth. Okay. You could quit. Um but I don't want you to quit. I want you to take a break and decide what the next chapter is. You know what an encore is

after the band has played all their greatest hits and they left off one and the Eagles, everybody's clapping and the Eagles come back out on stage, right?

and and yes, you know, they play one more song >> and it's what it delights the crowd. You got one more song in you or two or three. You're only 46 and fishing and

golf will get old after a while. You You need to lay your hand to something. You don't have to work 60 hours a week. You don't have to bust your hump, but you could kind of cruise into something and be of value to your fellow man because you're a smart guy. You're a wise guy.

You're a kind guy. You're a person of character. And we actually need you operating businesses in the marketplace.

America needs men like you and women like you to do stuff. So take a little break. A year from now, I want you to start something, something you've always dreamed of that's been tickling in the back of your head. And I want you to spend a little of this money getting it getting it going. And I want you to make make yourself useful because you're going to have more joy that way than you will sitting on your butt.

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Angel's in San Francisco. Hi, Angel. How are you?

>> Hey, what's up, guys? Thanks for taking my call. >> Good. How can we help?

>> Um, so I'm a little confused. Uh, I

worked my whole life since I was probably 12 years old, and everything I've done to create money is basically

on my back. You know, I I bought a property. I had a small house. I built a second home in the back. um from the plumbing to the electrical to the foundation, everything was me to save some money. Um now I'm renting the property in the front, but everything that I everything else that I do is always labor and I make pretty decent

money and I'm wondering what where can I put my money in so it makes me money and I don't go on vacation with my with my wife and kids and I'm thinking, man, the truck is parked and I'm losing money every day while I'm here in vacation, right? So, I have that stress of not making money if I'm not working.

Is that Does that make sense to you guys? >> Yeah. Are you running a business?

>> Yes, I got a trucking business, but um technically I'm an owner operator, right? Um I make about a yearly about

325,000.

Um my wife works as well, but whenever the truck is parked or it breaks down, there's there's no income coming in.

>> Yeah. >> And that's where I'm having trouble. So all it all it is is you own your job.

>> Yes, that's it. >> Yeah. And so if you don't work, you don't make money because you own your job. It's it's straight commission.

Yeah. >> And so uh the only thing you can do

is to grow that business and have

several other people doing that work that work for you and then they're working when you're not. But until then, you're you're a one you're a soloreneur.

We call it a single person small business. And it does all depend on you.

You're you're on a treadmill. And so, uh, you're stuck on that. And that's not bad. You're making 300. Like you said, you're making 320,000. So, shut up and take a week off. That's okay. You can take you can go on vacation. It's not going to kill you.

>> You're not going to go hungry if you take a week off when you're making 320 grand. >> No. So here's here's the thing though.

I'm I'm in California. So in California to to get drivers to get other trucks and going the profit cuz I already done it before. The profit it's it's not there and it's not worth all the stress and and and the headache. So um

>> so you're going to own your job >> and when you're not working or when the truck's broken, you're not making money there. I mean that that that's your reality and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just you just know what it is. But there's not really a fix for it except to do something else.

>> Well, that's I guess that's why I'm I'm calling you guys to see where um >> what do you want to do? Do you want to It sounds like you don't want to scale and delegate this and you don't want to do it all on your own. >> What is it you want to do?

>> I I want to I want to >> I want to be able to put my money somewhere where it makes money and it's not it's not on my back all the time. Do

you want you want quote passive income?

>> Yes, passive income. >> Okay. >> Um and yesterday I ran into one of you guys' um commercials and you know I I I

put my link I put some information and I got about 40 people calling me. They you know saying works for you and this and that and they're throwing me one way and the other way and that's why I called you guys today. I'm trying to figure out >> Okay. You you did not you did not you did not get in touch with us. We don't have 40 people to call you.

Yeah, that's uh you got you got scammed one of the >> You got scammed. It's some kind of AI bull crap or something. Yeah. >> Be careful what you click on on the internet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. That's why I called you yesterday. >> Okay. So, what have you been doing any investing with this money? Cuz you're making amazing money. Where is it all going? Where's this 2530 grand going every month?

>> Okay. So, um so when I bought the

property, I had a small house. I built a second home for us in the back and now I'm renting the the house in the front.

>> What are you doing with the money that comes in every month?

>> Um, so I just uh I purchased some uh they're called luxury bathrooms, restrooms for events.

I purchased some of those. So, you're spending all the money coming in to start new businesses

>> to to start >> to reinvest something >> cuz you have a trucking business and now you're talking about buying luxury bathrooms.

>> Yes. Just in case just in case the the trucking business doesn't doesn't feed me anymore. Maybe, you know, the other business will, right? But again, the other business is always me hauling the bathroom from here to there. So I I wanted to invest on on the market or I wanted to invest somewhere where I can I

can >> So you want to stop investing in all these multi- businesses because you can't be a serial entrepreneur and do it all at once. And so you're wanting to invest it elsewhere like in mutual funds in the stock market.

>> Something like that. Yeah, that's what I need. >> Yeah. But here's the thing, okay?

Running a small business always makes a lot more money for the money invested than investing it in anything else. If you bought a rental property and paid cash for it, it doesn't, you know, put 500 grand into that, it doesn't pay you

what if you took that same 500 grand and opened a business. It' pay you a lot more, but you've got to work more as you have figured out. So, um, no, I would not open six businesses and call that investing. That's just serial entrepreneur and they're all going to fail because of lack of focus.

I would not do that. decide what businesses you want to be in and very carefully and very diligently and very gradually make your move into those and away from trucking so that you can get off the road because it sounds like that's really what you need to do.

business. And I put money in good growth stock mutual funds. And you can find a

person that doesn't work for me, but that we recommend called a smart vester pro on our website only at not on

Instagram. You can't find them there.

You can find them on our website at ramseysolutions.com and click on smartvester. they'll sit down with you and help you do some mutual fund investing. Um, and but you

know, you're not putting enough money in there right now to not have to work.

It's going to be a long time before you get there. Um, and and then I personally

also buy real estate that I pay cash for, but I would only recommend that to you after your 100% debt-free house and

truck and everything.

And so, I'm going to get you completely out of debt. that frees up all your money to build wealth with and to be generous with. And that's how I have done mine.

Okay?

And folks, if if 40 different people call you and say they work for Ramsay and they have things to sell you, they don't work for Ramsay because we don't do that. >> You're about to get scammed. Don't fall for it. We >> we don't have that. Okay? We have a network of people that we endorse that

are real estate people. And so if you click on our website and say I want a real estate agent that's Ramsey trusted, we'll send that to you. If you click on Smart Investor Pro and want to talk to somebody about doing investing, we'll send those people to you. They don't work for us, but they're also not going to be 40 of them calling you and and we

don't have stuff that we're calling you to sell you. Okay? It's not what we do here. So that that's some of the AI crap. There's something on there the other day. Somebody sent me the apparently my it's like kung fu movie or something. My mouth doesn't even match the words. Is it like a car alone? Like a car insurance >> insurance thing. Dave doesn't believe in insurance agents or something.

>> But how stupid is AI? Cuz they said Dave, this is Dave's mouth. I love my Tesla. And I went, "Wow, AI do better if you think that's what >> Yeah, it's not It wasn't even AI. It's just a bad It's a bad edit by >> some Russian scam artist or something. I don't But yeah, that's probably what you've gotten into, honey. So, we're we just don't get into all that stuff. We're very simple people here.

>> All right. Open phones at8255225.

Hey, Christian, just for the fun of it, send him a copy of building a business you love with the five stages of business. He's stuck in treadmill. Maybe that book will help him. It's a bestseller angel on how to operate a business and the stages of business. The my latest bestseller. It's the last book I did, matter of fact. And so, um, I'll send that to you as a gift. And you're you're a fellow entrepreneur for sure.

>> You just need some some clarity, some vision, some direction. He's just doing all of it. >> Stay. Yeah. Don't don't do everything at once. And Jack of all trades, master of none. Don't don't don't lose your focus.

Just figure out a couple things. Do those well, and just keep pushing. Keep pushing the rock.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no

whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die.

Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it.

But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money still showing up. And that's why Xander is our go-to.

They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait.

It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the Debtree stage. Alex and Amanda are with

us. How are you guys? Merry Christmas.

>> Merry Christmas. We're doing great. How about you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. Where do y'all live? >> Live in Altuna, Pennsylvania. Basically in the middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania.

>> I love it. That's a pretty area actually. >> Oh, awesome. >> Very nice. Very cool. Welcome to Tennessee. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> $100,000. >> I love it. And how long did this take?

>> Five years. >> Five years. And your range of income during that time? >> Between 80 and 130.

>> Okay. And what kind of debt was the 100,000? >> That was our mortgage, Dave. >> Mortgage. >> You're weird people. It's a little bitty mortgage, but you knocked her out.

Congratulations. What's that house worth? >> About 400. Very cool. And how much in your nest egg these days in your retirement accounts? A >> little over 150.

>> All right. Very cool. So sitting right there at 550 heading towards a million dollars. How old are you two?

>> 34. >> I'm 35. >> And a paid for house. How weird are y'all?

>> Very cool. All right. Tell us the story.

What started this five years ago or more? And how did you get connected to Ramsay? >> So this really started about nine years, almost 10 years ago now. Um Amanda's parents, my in-laws for one of our wedding gifts got us Financial Peace University >> and um we started

>> Daveish >> and then we had our never again moment which we had $12 in our bank account. We weren't going to get paid for about a week and we were >> we were looking through our couches looking for change >> and basically living on beans and rice.

>> Yeah. >> Got paid um did a baby step uh did our

first baby step number one, $1,000 and we never looked back. All right.

>> Um, we paid off about $85,000 in a car and student loans. >> Oh, good. Okay. >> At that point, so we got rid of all our consumer debt.

>> And then after that, we decided that we're going to move to we were living in New Jersey at the time and we decided that we're going to move to Altuna, Pennsylvania. >> Yeah. >> Now, during all of this, we really struggled with infertility. >> Mhm.

>> So, we um, you know, we purchased our house. >> We got we uh put a really nice down payment on it >> and then we adopted embryos during that time. >> Oh, wow. We cash everything.

We cash flowed everything. >> Wow.

>> Very cool.

>> That's awesomeness. Proud of y'all.

About as good a use of money as I can think of. >> Absolutely. >> Well done. Good for you guys. That's so powerful. How's it feel to be 34 years old and completely debtree? >> It feels so good. >> So good. It's awesome. It's awesome.

>> Very freeing. >> It's doable. >> It is. >> What do you do for a living? Um, I actually just got promoted. I'm the chief financial officer of a small startup, uh, health in healthcare.

>> And, uh, >> and I'm a social media coordinator.

>> All right. Good for you. And a lot of mom, huh? >> Yes. >> Three littles running around. >> Enjoying every moment. So, what was the hardest part over five years? Cuz that's a longer journey, you know, baby step six. It's not as aggressive. Did you ever lose steam? What kind of kept you going?

Um, I'd have to say it was just uh

communication and just leaning on each other. And every time we just we we had these like little thermometers. Every time we'd put another chunk on the mortgage, we'd color some more.

>> Oh, there they are. If you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, >> so making visual really helped you guys.

>> Yeah, the visual really helped. >> And every next, you know, $10,000, you're like, "Oh my gosh, we're one step closer." >> Yep. We're getting closer. We can do it.

>> Yeah. It's I mean even another piece of this about what almost a year and a half ago I got laid off from my job >> and we weren't nervous, we weren't scared and we were pregnant with twins at the time. >> Oh. >> And we were like, "Okay, what's a severance look like? We'll we'll make it happen." And um that was an absolute blessing because my job was super stressful. It took away from my family at the at the time. We had a young we had a young daughter and obviously a

wife as well. And it was an absolute

blessing because we were able to take a little bit of a risk in the next job and that's been uh unbelievable for us. Such

a blessing. >> Gave you options. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's amazing. Well done you guys. All right. When people hear that you've been on this journey and you've done all of this and now you're debtree, what do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is?

>> I'd say being on the same page.

>> Yeah. Working together. You can do anything if you work together and you communicate together. Um, I mean, anything anything is possible. It really is. >> So, why did you move from Jersey to Altuna? >> Amanda's family lives in Altuna, and we were traveling there about two, three times a month, putting a lot of mileage on the car. >> Okay. All right. And but I'm guessing you it was a major cost of living shift.

>> Huge. Absolutely. >> Huge cost of living shift. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Tax base and everything. Yeah.

Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> It was crazy. We both got jobs on the same day. God sent us jobs. It was It all just worked out. >> Just worked out perfectly. >> Yeah. in Altuna to to facilitate the move. Yeah. Okay. Wow. From >> no income to dual income just like that.

>> Yeah. I like it. Very cool. That's fun, guys, because we often are talking to people and going, you know, you may have to move, >> you know, and you doesn't, you know, what you're trying to do doesn't fit there and you may have to move and so I always wonder cuz, you know, you made the choice to move to a more rural area and obviously a lower cost of living area and that kind of thing, but it's a great place to build a family.

>> Absolutely. Uh, but you got to have an income.

Perfect. >> I love it cuz that's inspiring for other people listening right now. Some people are stuck in a market they can't afford to live in >> and they need to unstuck themselves and that then that'll get them moving. That that's good. Good for you guys. >> Six figures in a low low cost of living area. I mean that's a wealth hack. So you guys are you've cracked the code here and it's only uphill from here or I guess downhill. >> Yeah. Way to go guys. Proud of you. Who

was cheering you on along the way?

>> I would say us two were our biggest motivators, but also our families were huge to the >> I mean they gave you they gave you Financial Peace University 10 years ago.

So they got to be going. I'm glad it worked.

>> Support and you brought grandbabies to my neighborhood. So that's good.

>> Everybody's happy, right? So there you go. I like it. Grandpa's happy. My grandma's happy. So >> Oh, absolutely. >> Yeah. They they got to be cheering you on. I'm proud of Good for you guys. Well done. Well done. Very good. All right.

All right. You want to bring up the littles? Are they going to cheer with you? >> They're going to cheer with us. >> All right. What are their names and their ages? >> We have Isabella, who's three.

>> We have Alex and Regina, who are 10 months. >> All right. Come on up, guys. Oh, look at

this.

>> All right. Oh, look at these guys.

They're great. >> That's a good reason to become debtree right there. >> Very cool. Yeah, there's a good why right there in that picture. Good job.

See, those kids are not old enough they're even going to remember that this happened. But their parents were heroes and changed their whole family tree by deciding to do this. Sitting here completely debtree at 34 years old, be millionaires in another four and a half to 5 years. Pretty impressive stuff.

Very well done. Alex and Amanda, Isabella, Alex and Regina from Pennsylvania. $100,000 paid off the last

portion. That would be their mortgage.

They're weird. Did it in 5 years making 80 to 130. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> All right, get ready. >> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> Y

love it. >> Oh man, those the little 10-month-olds are going to be watching this on YouTube in like 20 38.

>> Yeah. >> Going watching vintage clips.

>> When the old man old lady made us rich when we got out of debt.

>> Your show is going to be vintage. That's pretty cool. You never know. At some point, everything becomes vintage. >> Yeah. Well, I don't want to talk about that right now, but Yeah. I was vintage a long time ago, George. I'm way past vintage now. I'm over into antique.

>> So, man, >> you got a special license plate for that at least. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that's so >> I want the license plate that has no speed limit. That's the one I want. I can't >> I can't get that one. But yeah, you guys are incredible. Alex and Amanda, look at these heroes, man. This is so powerful.

Are are we seeing more and more people in their early 30s because they had their financial peace babies. The parents got them onto financial peace.

They actually believed that it could happen. >> They grew up in a household. So when they got married, they had to apply it. And 10 years, nine years later, here we are. Including, you know, three babies on the way that and there's a lot of cash flowing going on with this story.

>> Oh yeah. >> These guys. Um, but I I just want to encourage we hear all these people talking about affordability and they can't afford to live and you know these guys make 80 to 130

and they move to Altuna, Pennsylvania and they're doing unbelievably well.

It's still possible there. There's a formula here that notice the correlation, boys and girls. Yeah. They

can afford to live there.

It's affordability. Wow. People forget

you can choose where you live. You can choose the job you have. >> Interesting. >> But it's going to take sacrifice.

>> Interesting.

The holidays can come with a lot of pressure to spend. Family, friends, secret Santa at the office, all the things. But y'all, this season should be about peace, not payments. That's a big

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Christmas is going to be here in about 20 minutes. Are you guys ready? I mean, it's here. Boom. Just like that. I mean, where' 2025 go? I mean, just I just blinked and it's gone. Yeah. Uh and and

consequently, we are running all the appropriate Christmas sales at the Ramsay store here at Ramsey Solutions.

Rachel Cruz's kids books are on sale for just $13. These are very good,

meaningful gifts for little ones. If you want stocking stuffers or grandma, grandpa, you want to buy something for your grandkids, little kids, is fun, easy way to teach them about contentment and gratitude and generosity. Those are the three uh themes of the three books.

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Or if you're on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the description. You

know how to do that. Savannah's in Omaha, Nebraska.

Hey, Savannah. How are you?

>> Great. Great to talk to you both.

>> You, too. >> So, my question is, my husband and I are in our early 30s. Um, I stay home with

two toddlers and my husband works. He makes 75,000 a year. Um, we have no debt

other than our house. Um, and we are currently not saving for retirement. We make enough just to cover normal expenses without living too uncomfortably. And then some months we can save a little. Some months we aren't able to put anything into savings. Um, >> how much is your house payment? >> Should we be living? What's that?

>> How much is your house payment?

>> Uh, we have 150 left.

>> No, your payment.

>> Oh, it's uh, 1300 a month.

>> Okay. And you make $75,000 a year.

>> Yes. >> So $7,000 a month minus taxes. So he's

getting home with five,

>> right?

>> It's about4500.

>> How much was your tax refund?

>> Um I think about we just had a baby so

2,000 but this year it'll be about 300.

Okay. Where's the money going out of his check then?

>> Because that's not your taxes are not that high.

>> Okay. Um we have insurance, HSA. We

contribute about 150 or 200 to our HSA

each paycheck. >> Mhm. >> Um so maybe that's it.

>> No.

How much was the insurance?

Um, I believe, if I recall correctly, 250.

>> Still not right. That doesn't add up to your That doesn't add up to $75,000 a year. >> You're missing something. >> Okay. >> Okay. Something's gone. So, that I'm trying to find out why you've got a pinch because with no your house payment is reasonable and um given given your

income and you don't have a single of the debt. You don't have a car payment. You don't have anything. >> No. No. >> Okay. >> I don't know where your money's going then. I think you need to be on a written budget because you should be able to save 15% of that which would be about $1,000 a month and retire with dignity. >> Okay. >> Does he get paid twice a month? >> We are He does. Yeah, it's about Yeah,

it's 2200 a month or sorry, every two weeks. >> We are on a written budget. I watch all our money coming from his paycheck. I don't know.

I'm less familiar with what happens to his paycheck before it comes to us. So, taxes and everything. I'd sit down tonight with him and just take a look at it and see all the deductions that are coming out cuz what should be happening if you invest 15% into his, you know, workplace retirement plan, that's about $468 that would be coming out for the 401k. So now the goal is how can we live on the rest that actually shows up in the bank account and then budget off of that.

That should become your reality. And that might mean we need to cut some expenses cuz all of a sudden it's too tight.

And that's the part I think we can drill down on and figure out. >> Yeah. >> And an every dollar budget will help you guys do that. So I would sit down tonight and make >> What does he do for a living?

>> He's an operation supervisor at a manufacturing plant. >> Okay. All right. Well, and the other the other question I'm going to begin to ask myself is what are our career plans right now? You're a full-time mom, right?

>> Yeah. Our our plans are I would love to go back to work when they get in school and he would love to leave his job any day. >> Mhm. Okay. Yeah. So, I'd be working, but

obviously for an upgrade. We don't want to leave his job for a downgrade. That that's kind of counterproductive to this whole discussion. So, yeah. So, as your careers increase, you're going to find more wiggle room probably. And um but um

you know, you're making an average American household income. 78,000 is the average right now. Okay. And you've got and you've got a decent you've done a great job, by the way, to stay out of debt.

Most people in this situation call me up with a car payment or two and and a student loan hanging around and then can't figure out why they're broke >> or their mortgage is three grand and they make4,500 a month. Yeah. And so you guys don't fall into that. >> Yeah.

you should be about 5,000 a month take-home right now. So, I've still got I've still I'm still tickling my brain cuz it's 6,300 bucks.

talking about every two weeks. I'm talking about monthly. So, that's that

throws it a little bit because you've got two magic months if you're getting paid two week every two weeks. Two two magic months where you get three paychecks and that throws the numbers off a little. So, that um that might

that might get you back to where you need to be. I might you might be right.

It might be about right. Um so cuz

you're not really making 4,500 a month.

You see what I'm saying?

You've you've got two months where you get extra 2200 bucks.

>> So we do a four-week budget and a fiveweek budget based on the projection.

So we do 12 of those. So I think we have about two or three fiveweek budgets and the rest are four-week. So four-week budgets are four. >> There should be two. There should be two where you've got a five three paycheck and and one and and the rest of them are

not. So 10 otherwise >> because it's a that's the way the twoe cycle works. So yeah, if you're doing that with your every dollar, um the the

extra 2,200 the extra $4,500 a year

might make up the difference and mean that I'm see I was running everything saying you ought to come home with more than $4,500 a month and you do

>> because it's actually about 5,000 let's

say $4,500.

It's about It's almost $5,000 a month average that you're coming home with, which is what it needs to be. So, you're you're probably not going to find a bunch of stuff in this check, >> but look at it anyway. Be sure.

>> So, um >> Okay.

>> Yeah. What I would be very concerned with is um those two months when you get

that extra check, if you could just invest all of that

and live on the 4500 every single month,

you'd be okay. That would get you started on your investing.

>> Okay? >> You see how I'm doing that? Just pretend like you didn't get those checks. Just just live the whole thing on 4500 take-home pay, 1300.

And you know, it's not you've not got a you're not living opulently and you've been very responsible and have done a very good job. I don't want to leave this call with you thinking we've judged you cuz it's quite the opposite. You're impressive. I really like what you've done.

You've done a lot with a little and um and you've got a good long-term plan where he upgrades and you go back to work and your income's going to go through the roof. You're going to be at 150,000 when that those two things happen. >> So, yeah. uh and then zoom zoom on building up your retirement at that point.

Okay, you'll be fine. So, you're not you're not in trouble and you've done a very good job avoiding debt and managing the money that you have.

>> Thank you. >> Yeah, but maybe the maybe the hack is for now take the two magic months, the third that have the extra check and throw that whole check into a Roth IRA.

And so that at least gets $5,000 a year going, at least gets something moving that way. And then as you see some increases from whatever, make sure you start jacking up 401k contributions steadily as you as you get to more and more room in the budget. And for God's sakes, don't go into debt. So you've done a great job avoiding it so far.

So Savannah, you've really I mean I I I would put them in the top 5% of Americans and how good a job they've done. >> Oh yeah. I mean that's a solid income and no debt and they're living very reasonably.

>> Very carefully. Yeah. It's not opulent.

I mean, they're not living some kind of fancy pants life. >> No, you can't at that point.

>> If you dial in that investing and learn to live on what comes after that, you're going to be just fine. >> Amen. You're going to make great

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. George

Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host.

I am Dave Ramsey. We're glad you're here. Thanks for joining us. Hannah is in Indianapolis. Hi, Hannah. How are you?

>> I'm good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, um considering I'm I'm doing okay.

Um I recently lost my job um last

Friday. >> Wow. What happened? And um well um they

said that um I wasn't productive enough

in downtime.

Um and which we had a lot of downtime but not a lot of busy work. Um so all of the work that I was given I would always complete on time. Um and just wasn't like super

engaged. It was a really great job. I don't feel like I extremely enjoyed it.

Um, but it was um a small office setting

and um there was just a lot of downtime and really not enough work to go around between me and the other um office

administrator. >> So, did they give you a severance package? >> They gave me a two week severance package, which I'm really grateful for.

I wasn't expecting it. Um I have about

4,000 in savings.

>> Mhm. Um, my barebones, no extras budget

is about 3,500 a month.

>> Um, I had just recently went back to working a part-time job last month. Um,

>> and was kind of using that to, you know,

kind of keep >> not a whole lot. It's $12 an hour. It's a serving job. Um, it brings in, you know, between $4 and $500 a month. It was just on the weekends.

>> Um, I'm a single mom. I don't get um

child support. I don't get court ordered supposed to get um 50% of their expenses

paid as far as like medical extracurricular and things like that.

But um I currently have quite a balance that's owed to me that you know hasn't been paid and I'm not getting any financial help from my ex-husband. Um am

going back to court within a month um

due to other reasons. But >> what were you making at the job you lost?

I was making um 27 an hour.

>> Okay. What kind of role was it? >> I paid for my insurance fully. I didn't have any out of pocket for my insurance.

>> What were you doing? What was your job title? >> Um AP, AR, payroll,

um regular like office type duties, things like that. >> Okay.

Man. >> And so going back four weeks before Christmas is when they decided they have to do this.

>> Yes. >> This is strange. >> Yes. And I actually had to stop back in there yesterday and um a family member was already in there training for that spot. So I don't know if it's something that they had had planned. I don't see them in that light. Like in general, I think they're really great people. Um

but uh it was definitely kind of a shot to my pride a little bit. Um, >> so I don't know. But, um, so I'm kind of

freaking out. Um, it's also court ordered that I I'm the one that has to

carry the insurance and they paid for my insurance fully. >> Yeah. Well, you you'll get you'll get that the next position. So really the this just means that we have to just really really really >> it it's um

you're forced to set the emotions that normally go with this aside and just dive straight into a job hunt.

>> Yeah, I was really sad Friday. Saturday I was I can do it. I redid my resume, did my cover letter, and then Sunday and yesterday I started to panic. um went back I used to Uber on the side so I went back and I Ubered yesterday and it was kind of depressing.

I didn't really I was out and about for about four or five hours and just didn't make anything. The the big town that's next to me is >> the traffic's congested so it's just hard to get >> Yeah. >> runs. It's just hard to make money with it.

>> Yeah.

you need to panic but I do need to think you need to I'm with you. It's fair to be very concerned >> because you know this is going to run out and >> you know you got you got two weeks and you've got a little bit of money and that's it. And so you you got you got you got six weeks >> minus you probably got eight weeks cuz you can add to it with your uh server job which you can probably gear up and that's probably going to be more productive than Uber >> uh actually.

So >> yeah, it really is. It really is. And I'm putting miles on my car and I I have a nice car.

>> I don't think Uber I don't think Uber is your plan, but but what we do need to do is land the next full-time gig that has the insurance and it has the you know the $30 an hour thing and so and it sounds like you've got some accounting training.

>> So I was in banking for eight years.

>> Um loved uh between I started out as a

teller, moved to a banker, I was an assistant manager, a branch manager, I did retail support. Mh.

>> Um, and I I feel like I really thrive in

that busy environment. Um, when there's too much downtime in a slow setting, I get really distracted and it is hard for me to maintain like a productivity. So, I just I like to be busy and I do like as draining as customer service can be, I feel like I excel when it's, you know,

customer focused or just people focused.

>> I enjoy, you know, leadership roles.

I've been a trainer before.

>> Um it's just really hard in the area that I live because I don't live I live about an hour from Indie and >> um a lot of the jobs that I know that you know I could get hired you know in a couple days it's you know $15 an hour and >> you may you may need to be moving to Indie. >> Yeah. If you got a job making 80,000 would you just moved and go work there?

What's stopping you from moving? Um, if I got a job in Indie or like a close cuz

there's some like distributions stuff up there that I could maybe do. Um, I would just I would just have to commute as far as um my

It really comes down to how important my home is. I only owe 80,000 on it. It's

probably worth 300. Um, >> if you can get a job in banking making 80 in Indie, sell it and move.

>> Yeah. I well I applied for a branch manager position um about 45 minutes away and the salary is between 70 and 100. >> There you go. >> Um >> and you can keep keep your house or make that commute. Yeah, I'm fine with that.

>> The the the management position that I held um it was a more of a it was like a a community bank, a state bank, and they didn't do a lot of like outside relations um that like relationship management portion that a lot of the credit unions do. So, I applied to a credit union and their their managers, their branch managers are rarely ever actually like in office. They're kind of out rubbing elbows and things like that.

So, that's stuff I don't have a whole lot of experience in. I would love to.

>> I think that I think those are your answers. So, you're right on track. We can't hire you, so I'm not going to interview you, but the uh but I do want you to continue down that track. And here's the thing. I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's book and I want you to go to kenleman.com and look at his website on all the different things in the letters and the resume covers and all that. It's very very important that you fi figure out who you know

from somewhere kids soccer wherever it

is you know them from. you know them from church that works in one of these companies or if you know someone that knows someone that works in one of these companies that they can get you they can

handwalk your resume into the boss's office and say, "Hey, look at this lady.

She's sharp. Give her a look, please.

She's a friend of a friend. Give her a look." And that doesn't get you hired, but it gets a look and it gets your resume out of the stack. And so the proximity principle is the idea. And it's a book that Ken wrote. I'm going to send you a copy of that. Also going to send you a copy of Finding the Work You're Wired to Do. Hannah, you're going to be fine cuz you're so proactive.

You're going to be just fine. >> That's the key.

Jack is in Kansas City. Hi, Jack. How are you? >> Life's good. >> Good, man. How can we help? Merry Christmas. >> Merry Christmas. Thank you. So, I'm a 76y old retired electrician

slashcontractor that has found the lady that he'd like to marry. And um I was married for 53

years. Um I my wife passed away for the

last 5 years. Didn't think this person

would be there for me, but she is.

And that's kind of where we are. My children um now are becoming concerned

about uh trust funds, prenap wheels,

and uh all my children are followers of

Dave Ramsey. And I said, "Well, do you ever listen to Dave where he says, "You're one.

You don't need two checking accounts.

You live together.

You talk about important things like how

we spend the money, church, God, those

things. >> Mhm. >> So, um, we've had some hard feelings of

things that have been said, mostly negative things about my fiance of um of

uh not supported, but in their minds.

And um uh in my position, I go to her defense

because it was unfounded and still unfounded, but you do background checks on people's name and you find out there's a lot of people with the same name. Um so, um trying

>> Am I hearing this correctly, Jack? Let me summarize this for you. Your kids think your new fiance is a gold digger and they want to protect their gold.

>> That's absolutely right.

Um, a matter of fact, we had those >> How long How long have you known your fiance?

>> Um, we have been talking for 12 months.

We've been seeing each other for 9 months. >> Where did you meet her?

>> Online. >> Okay. All right. I'm I'm 65 and I've

been married 43 years.

>> Um, >> I can't imagine being in your shoes because I've not been there, but I can imagine maybe being there someday. Um, >> absolutely. >> And so, um, what is your net worth?

>> I'm at, um, without property, I'm at one, uh,.3.

>> What about property?

>> Uh, there's another, um,

um, mil maybe.

>> Okay. And what is your, um, fiance's net

worth?

um >> 30 >> less.

I I can't tell you the exact number.

>> Okay. Well, I would want to know that if I were in your shoes, here's what I would do. Okay. And you you can do whatever you want to do. you're you're obviously thinking through this clearly and um uh your children um if if their only

motivation is to make sure that you are safe, I appreciate their motivation, even though I might disagree with their tactics and certainly disagree with them being insulting. Okay. But the uh but

but if their if their motivation is to protect what they think is theirs and it's not theirs, well that's just greed and you lose your vote.

>> You lose your ability to give input at that point. Okay.

>> Um but people in my life that that are close to me and that love me, if they have a concern for me, I have to say

thank you for that even if I disagree with it. Okay. So what would I do if

Okay, so I've got a substantial net worth. if Sharon passed away and if I were in the exact same situation and I met someone that I didn't have a long history with and you don't um and u I I

would hire a company and do a full

background check and I would also tell her that I will pay for her to do the same thing on me. It's not an insult.

It's I want to know what's going on and I want you to know what's going on. And you do need to know her entire net worth in detail. She needs to know yours and you do need to have a shared checking account and share your incomes together towards your future. But I would do a pre I would do a prenup on existing assets.

>> Okay. >> Um just because it keeps the weirdness out. Okay. And um and and it's not it's

not a because I'm afraid of this lady.

Uh, I'm more worried anytime the only

time we recommend prenups at Ramsay is when there's a substantial difference and you've got a two or $3 million net worth and she doesn't. So, there's a substantial difference there and that can create weirdness if you don't have the clarity of a prenup.

>> Okay. >> So, I probably would do that. Um, and

then you know, and that's not for your

children's sake, it's for your sake.

Well, that's what they tell me, too. I mean, even though I get irritated, I know they're trying to protect me in the way that they do it.

>> Yeah. Their tactics might be good, but their motivation I mean, their motivation might be good, but their tactics suck. Is that fair?

>> Yeah, that's generous, I'd say.

>> What's the age difference, Jack, between you two? >> We're the same age. It's very unusual.

I'll tell you she's younger >> at heart or she looks younger >> but six no well she does look young she

is 6 months we're both very active we walk we do you know I mean it's like very unusual >> I think you found a companion and I think that's wonderful and I want you to pursue it um but let's just do it this

is not puppy love let's just do it with some wisdom and I would do a detailed background check because you and I both have lived long enough we've seen friends get scammed scammed.

>> Oh yeah. >> And um >> yeah, >> one of my good friends got scammed out of a couple million in a situation like this. It was crazy. But um

>> yeah, it was wow. But so and I don't I don't even smell that here because I what I what I and you know why? Because I trust you and your judgment after talking to you. >> You've got a level of wisdom and I think you've probably got a pretty good nose for stink. And I don't and you don't smell any stink. So, I don't think there is any, but I think it would lay everyone's head on a pillow carefully.

Hers as well. Tell her, "Look, it costs 500 bucks to do a full detailed private investigation background check. Here's 500 bucks, and I want you to hire this company to do a check on me, and I'm going to hire a company to do this check on you, and that way everybody will shut up, and let's do a prenup for the assets, and we're going to combine our incomes and live our lives in a combined manner." But the actual assets that we both enter in with, we would leave with.

And and I think that's probably a smart thing. And it'll give you both a lot of peace. And maybe I'm not really doing

this for the kids. The kids can jump in a creek, but the uh uh but but I'm

trying to give them a little bit of love, saying if their reason, their motivation is to to protect you, that's

okay. But it also if you go to the point that you have to be a jerk about it, then that's obviously out of control. So anyway, that that's what I would do. So good good question. Very interesting.

>> Yeah, it's pretty neat to see that you can find love at that stage of life and it's not a romance scam, which is a breath of fresh air today cuz we've seen so many of those where they go, "Well, I never actually met her and she asked for a bunch of money and I wired it over to her." That I can understand kids concern. This is different. >> That's that's a scam is why. Yeah. But he's he's clearly met her several times.

>> Yeah. >> And she's of the same age. So it's not this like, you know, well, she's in her 40s and, you know, she she just likes me for me and my personality. The kids sniff that out. This is very different.

So >> there's some really I wish them well. >> There's some celebrity versions of that that are downright funny.

>> That's just frightening >> to see those age differences. >> Yeah. >> Well, I mean, it's it's Yeah. Anyway,

>> we all know we all know >> pop culture news. >> Yeah. But yeah, I tabloids that's not what we're dealing with here and or it doesn't sound like it is. So very interesting. Very interesting. Good discussion. >> So in this case, uh protecting the assets is wise because you've this is your entire life's work of building wealth, you know, building these assets up, which is different than I'm 25 and I want a prenup cuz you know, I feel like she's going to take me to the cleaners.

>> No. Yeah. That's >> this is very different. >> And again, there's a major difference in anytime there's a big difference. One of you have substantial wealth and the other one doesn't. >> Yeah, >> that's what I'm most worried about. >> And I've heard you say it protects from the crazies, the outliers in the family that are going to come after, >> which apparently have shown up.

>> They're already here. Welcome.

On the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Christopher is with us. Hi, Christopher. How are you?

>> I'm doing wonderful. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. Where do you live? >> Tucson, Arizona. >> Oh, beautiful. Well, welcome to Tennessee, where it's cold right now.

>> It's a nice change of pace. >> Yeah, I guess. Good to have you. And here to do a debtfree scream. How much you paid off? >> $104,500.

>> Good for you. I love it. And how long did that take you, sir? >> It took me four years and four months.

>> Love it, man. Your range of income during that time? So, I started around $30,000 and ramped it up to 70,000.

>> Wow. What do you do for a living?

>> I'm an accountant for a local government. >> Okay. Very cool. And what kind of debt was the 105? >> MY HOUSE. >> WHOA. LOOKING AT A WEIRDO.

>> That's a low mortgage. Good for you.

That's two of them in a row we've had like that. >> Yeah. >> I love it. What's this house worth?

>> It's It's I would probably say about 225,000 right now. >> Good for you. It's paid for in your How old are you? >> 30. And you have a paid for house.

>> Yeah, >> but millennials can't afford to buy a house. George, look at this guy. He didn't just buy a house. He owns the house. Shut up. Way to go, Christopher.

I love it. All right, tell me the story.

Four years, four months ago, what made you decide, I'm 26. By the time I'm 30, I'm going to have my house paid off. >> So, I started working and part of it was

the smart dollar. They offered $20 off

every week for my insurance if I went

through it and so I did it. Um, >> so your your your governmental agency brought bought Smart Dollar in.

>> Yeah. >> Very cool.

>> What's the agency? What is it? >> Uh, Pima County government. >> Oh yeah. Well, thank you. Puma County government. I love it. For those of you who don't know what we're talking about, Smart Dollar is our class on how to

handle money. It's like Financial Peace University, but it's taught in as an HR benefit in corporate America. and sometimes in county government. Look at that. So, they bought it for all the employees and said, "If you go through it, we'll give you $20 off your insurance >> every week." Yeah. >> Boom. >> Every week. That's quite >> 80 bucks a month right there.

>> Or every Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Every paycheck. So, >> Okay. Wow. Oh, okay. So, two paychecks a month. Okay. >> So, did a bunch of people do this?

>> I don't know. >> You guys don't talk. It's not like a You know, my all my co-workers, >> you know, I encouraged my co-workers to do it. I was like, you know, it it's 20 bucks. Go for it, you.

>> Yeah. Well, you're the poster child. You have no mortgage. They must be looking at you like, who is this guy?

>> Well, I mean, an employer that furnishes this and then the result is their their team members pay off their home at 30 years old. I mean, that's called an HR benefit. That's pretty cool. So, I'm I'm proud of our Smart Dollar team and I'm proud of Puma County and I'm proud of you. Everybody gets a proud of You're Man, this is pretty awesomeness. Very cool. How's it feel to be 30 years old to have a freaking pay for house?

>> It feels great. Like when I first started, I was like, "Oh, it's going to be 40." And then it's going to be 35.

And then I made it my goal to pay it off by the age of 30. And I I did it and I'm

I am so happy. I It's gone. I Every

month at the start of the month, nothing's coming out.

>> That's so weird. You don't have any bills, >> electric, you know. >> I mean, you just eat, buy a little electricity, a little food, and life is good. It it's it's so nice.

>> You are seriously a lowmaintenance dude now. That's amazing. I'm so That's so cool, man. I take it you're single.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Very cool. And extremely eligible at this point, ladies. I'm just saying.

>> Wow. Pretty stinking cool. All right.

Now, you've been at this >> and you're making 30 to $70,000 a year

during this during this journey.

>> So, I started working at the library and of course at the library you can get free books. So I was like, "Hey, you know, as part of the the course to supplement, I'm going to go check out those books free, read them." And it

kind of just got me started and used the proximity principle like the job that I have now. I I sort of just used that and

got got the job that I have now. And it's been wonderful because I love the job. And it's so much easier paying off debt when you go to a job that you absolutely love. >> Mhm. Mhm. It does. That's that's that's very true. >> But the bottom line is, I mean, you were not making $400,000 a year. No. You're making 30 to 70 and you still go and pay off your home by the time you're 30.

What do you think the secret to that is?

>> The the secret is just to have a goal and know what you know what's in store for you. like listening to the other debtree screams like people are like you

can't buy a house when you're 30. Like people think that it's unaffordable, but it it really is not. You have to have a goal in mind. You have to know what you want to do instead of door dashing or you know going to all these different Taylor Swift concerts or whatever.

>> So, >> and you bought a very reasonable house.

Most people go >> key to being debtree by the time you're 30. Avoid Taylor Swift concerts. I'm >> not the worst. wealth building hack I've heard. >> I think that's one I can abide by. I'll go with that one. >> You invest that ticket price in a good growth stock mutual fund. >> Seriously. And you you'll be a millionaire. >> Wow. >> Shortly. Yeah. Wow, man. So, the house

you said is worth two and a quarter >> approximately. Yeah. >> Okay. Tucson is a nice place. I've been there a couple times. Uh does that buy a pretty good house in Tucson?

>> Um it's it's a two-bedroom, two

bathroom. It's a condominium.

>> A condo. Okay. >> Yeah. So, >> all right. And how long have you owned it? >> I about four and a half years.

>> Okay. So, you bought it and then immediately started on this. >> Yeah. A little bit after. >> So, how much has it gone up in value in that five years?

>> 50 plus.

>> It's doubled. >> $50,000. >> Oh, no. No. It's gone up 25% in that period of time. >> Yeah. Roughly. >> So, great investment then. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's very cool. Good. Good for you, man. Who was encouraging you along the way? >> You know, I I I do have a co-orker who also has a paid for house. um he's in his probably early early 40s and um also

my dad he paid off his house early and I you know I grew up listening to this show kind of on the radio maybe not all the time but you know it kind of got the gears turning and and when it came time it's like you know why not you know >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What do you have to lose? >> Did you bring your dad with you?

>> Yeah. He's he's a little camera shy.

>> Okay, that's fine. He doesn't have to jump in, but but uh he ought to be here and be proud of you. That's good. I'm glad he's here cheering for you. That's neat to have your dad do that. Very good. Proud of you, man. Good work. Good

work. Good work. All right. So, let's just reiterate. It's really important for you employers out there to not miss this. I don't know. We've got major companies like U-Haul and Costco and others that have got all their employees going through Smart Dollar, but we also got a lot of police departments. And

this is a county. I didn't even know this county was doing this, but we've got all kinds of different organizations that are taking and paying for their employees to go through these courses and uh and it's very easy to implement.

We've got it really dialed in. It's a quality product. I'm proud of the product and obviously I'm proud of the ROI. >> The results are standing in front of us.

I mean, hello. That's awesome. And so, if you're an employer and you could have an employee end up like Christopher standing here, that'd be something to do. Smart dollar it's called. You can check it out at Ramsey Solutions and our team will get in touch with you and help you if you're an employer. So there's my advertisement, but just the same Christopher, you're the walking billboard buddy. So good stuff, man.

Good stuff. So what's the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate the fact that you don't have any freaking debt? >> Well, first of all, I've came here, but um I have an old car. It's an 03. I've

been driving it since high school. So >> Oh, you need a car. Your car is a piece of crap. What's the next car? Do you have it in mind? >> What are you What are you going to buy?

>> I It's still up in the air.

>> Okay. >> I need to figure out what's in my budget and >> Yeah. Well, you don't have a house payment, so you can stack the cash, right? >> Yes. It >> It's It's stacking so much faster now.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You'll be able to buy a car any minute now. Good for you. Well, that's fun. Yeah. Get you a good car. That's a good idea. I like that. You've earned it and uh you've been conservative and you've taken your time and man, that's imp impressive. Very good job. All right, ladies and gentlemen, Christopher from Tucson, Arizona. $105,000

paid off. That would be his house and everything in 4 years and 4 months.

Making 30,000 to 70,000 a year. And he's

100% debtree. House and everything at 30 years old. Shut up you whiners. This guy dropped dropped a mic on you people out there. Well done, Christopher. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

Three, two, one. I'm debtree.

>> Yeah.

Boom, >> man. >> Boom. >> This is this entire show.

>> 30y old mortgages. 30-y old people with

their mortgages paid off on the air on this show today. >> Reason if is we had the answer to the affordability crisis in America. Oh, we

solved it.

Our

scripture of the day is Psalm 27:4. One thing I ask of the Lord, this is what I

seek, that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life. to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord and to seek him in his temple.

George Carlin said, "Some people see things that are and ask why. Some people dream of things that never were and ask why not. Some people have to go to work and don't have time for all that."

>> That's good. I was like, "This has got to be taken a turn somewhere." >> Come on, George. We know George Carlin's going to turn somewhere there. All right.

Hey, buying or selling a home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what is really happening in the housing market. We'll help you with that. It's moving, by the way.

You don't want to miss this. It's kind of quiet, but there's this little revolution of brewing. And we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices held steady around 424,000 right now.

in October, about one in five homes saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more room this winter. Uh Christmas time is a great time to buy a house by the way. Not a lot of buyers out there bumping around. Mortgage rates uh dipped down to four 5 1/2 now. So you can learn

all about this by going to ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes.

We'll help you with your real estate decision making. Yep. Walk you through the whole thing. Travis is with us in San Jose. Hi Travis. How are you?

>> I'm doing good. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up? So, I

was just calling. So, I travel for work and um you know, when I first started, I had a little bit of debt. That's why I started traveling for work and my truck broke. I had to get a new one with a bad credit already.

And so, anyways, I paid off the I had 20 grand in credit card debt, paid that off, but now it's I had the high interest truck with high mileage.

>> What do you What do you owe on it?

>> I owe 25. So >> what do you make?

>> Uh 1,800 a week take home.

>> Okay. How quick can you pay the truck off?

Uh, realistically, because I got school coming up, so probably like March, March or April, it' be paid off.

>> So, you can pay it off in like six months. >> Yeah, >> I would pay it off.

>> Yeah. The thing is is that the head gasket's blown and the transmission like

flipped and it's kind of like here's the other thing is I live in it. I travel for work so I live in the truck and so I kind of always need it. So it's like a predicament of right and if it breaks then I lose more equity on trading it in or >> you you don't have equity because whatever you drive you're destroying its value. >> Yeah. You've expedited the depreciation.

So you're way underwater. >> Yeah. You're you're >> you're going to you really have whatever you drive is a you're destroying it and that's a cost of doing business. Mhm.

>> So, you want to destroy the least expensive thing that will get the job done. Now, get the job done means you live in it. It's got to have some comfort. And get the job done means to be reliable. But other than that, you don't need a truck. I mean, you don't need to spend money on it. All you need is reliable and comfortable. That's it.

You don't need to be impressive. If you if you buy $100,000 truck, you're going to destroy it. If you buy a $30,000 truck, you're going to destroy it. If you buy a $20,000 truck, you're going to destroy it.

Yeah. >> So, why not destroy the cheapest thing possible as a part of doing business?

Agreed.

>> No, that makes sense. Yeah.

>> So, fix the head gasket and the transmission drive this thing. >> I think Travis just wants a new truck.

Can we admit that? >> Okay. Don't get me wrong. I do. It's But the interest rate 16. That's >> You're going to pay it off in six months. It's an irrelevant interest rate. >> If you were hanging on to it for a decade, you'd have a point. But I think you're just jonesing for a nicer, newer truck. And the real solution here is to pay it off. Cuz right now, here's the thing. You're probably underwater by eight or 10 grand, right?

>> Well, I sold 25 on it.

>> You owe 25. But what's it worth? 15 17.

Well, it has 430,000 on it. That's

That's the part that 430,000 miles on

it. >> So, it's worth a lot.

>> Yeah. >> Do you understand what I'm saying? You're so far underwater that if you sold it, you'd have to cover the difference. So, you're better off putting a new transmission in it and eating that eight grand versus spending 15 to get out of the difference you're underwater. >> Yeah. And let's get this thing paid off.

Get it paid off. And then I want you to save up and pay cash for whatever you move into.

>> Well, that was the whole point. Do Okay.

So >> pay fix this one and drive it and get it

paid off and then save up and pay cash for whatever you move up to and move up to the minimal truck that will has reasonable comfort and reasonable reliability because whatever you drive you are destroying its value. You have driven this thing into the dirt and you're going have to drive it all the way into the dirt now because you trapped yourself. You got screwed cuz you got impulsive and bought a truck at 16% and they screwed you. So, next time, walk in with a check with the actual amount you have saved up and no more, cuz that dealership will talk you into a nicer truck.

that you're going to destroy. Don't do it. So, yeah, I'd clean this mess up and then I'd save up and move up from there.

And that probably means you're almost a year from buying a better truck. And because you got to get this one paid off and then you got to save up for the next one. >> You got a great income. It'll happen faster than you think. >> Yeah, that's what I would do if I were in your shoes. You got to break the cycle of this cuz otherwise it's going to break you. Kimberly's in Charlotte.

Hey Kimberly, how are you?

>> Good. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> So, um about 6 years ago, I got

divorced. In that divorce, we had one daughter and um I have her full-time. Um

her biological father is not in the picture. he's not a safe person to be around. And we get about $150

um for child support a month. Um it does

really not anything for us. And so since she was born and I started getting those child support payments cuz I had to leave when I was pregnant,

um I've been putting that money into a

savings account. And at first I put

enough to have like a money market account because at the time that was the highest interest rate and then I moved it into a CD. So currently I'm saving

that money for when she goes to college or when after how much is in the account college? >> About 13,000.

>> Okay. What I would do is jump online at ramseysolutions.com and click on smartvester pro >> and open up a 529 and a good mutual fund. Move the 13 into there and then add to it periodically when you have some more money come in and that'll give you a much better rate of return and it grows tax-free.

>> Okay. >> How old is she? >> Is that one of the She's six. It's a mutual fund and a 529 plan. 529 means it grows taxfree and it

has to be used for college or education of some kind. And so, um, >> so >> go ahead. >> Sorry. Go ahead. >> No, that's it. I mean, >> um, so with the 529 plan, I've heard

that they have to use it for college or it gets rolled over into like a

retirement account. >> I would not do that. you can do that, but instead they need to use it for college, which is what you just said.

You were saving it for her college.

>> And it's a wide variety of expenses connected to education. And so >> do trade school, she could do code school, she could do a lot of different things. It's school and she's going to need some kind of school.

>> Okay. It's just based off of rust rust

estimates. Um, I was imagining she would end up with like 36,000 in >> She should have more. >> No, I'm I'm I just crunched the numbers for you. At this rate, from 6 to 18, you invest it wisely into those mutual funds we talked about. Even with just your 150 a month, you'd have like 90,000 plus.

And that's if you didn't add any more, >> but that's because you're going to be earning more than you're earning now.

>> That's an 11% return instead of a savings account making three or three and a half. >> That's the difference with compound growth over those 12 years. >> Yeah. Click uh just click again at ramseysolutions.com and click on SmartVest Pro. And by the way, Kimberly, there's no moral or ethical reason that you have to put the child support aside.

You're allowed to use it to support the child if you need to. But if you want to keep investing it, that's the way you can do it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Heat. Heat. N.

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## 33. Discipline Matters Most in the Hard Times | August 29, 2025


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:10:20 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, co-host of the Ramsey Network hit Smart Money Happy Arm, and my daughter, she's my co-host today. Open phones at 888255225.

Stella is in Arizona. Hi Stella.

>> Um, hello.

>> How can we help today?

Um well um a big question that I have

what recommendations do you have to

increase your income uh while being a

homeschool parent?

>> How do you increase your income while being a homeschool parent?

>> Oh, let me elaborate a little bit. Um

well um my situation with my husband is

not that good and I plan to eventually

file for divorce once um once this homeschool year finishes.

So um for now um since I'm a full-time

homes school parent I don't have any uh

work right now.

So, I was wondering what kind of kids.

>> So, um you're talking about in May,

that's the end of the homeschool year.

>> Yes, correct. >> And um how many children do you have?

Huh? >> I have two children.

>> What age? What a >> They're very young. Uh four and one.

>> What are you homeschooling a four-year-old?

>> Uh I'm sorry.

How is a four-year-old in homeschool?

>> Uh well, uh prek, so foundation for uh

reading, uh language arts and math.

But yeah, still full-time and especially when I since I have my um my younger

son, he's one, so he still definitely depends on me. He's very attached to me as he should be. >> Okay. So, if you file divorce, you understand that you're going to be working full-time.

>> Oh, yes, I understand. >> And the kids are not you're not going to be homeschooling ever again.

>> Yes. I >> Who's going to take care of the kids? Who's going to take care of the children?

>> Well, um I I was already thinking on uh

uh yeah, enrolling them on on daycare,

also a local preschool. How long has it

been since you've been in the workplace?

>> Well, it has been uh about a year.

>> Okay. What were you doing? What were you doing before?

>> Oh, wow. Well, um I was working for a

gas company.

>> For what company? >> Um uh for a gas company.

>> A gas company. What were you making, Stella, at that position?

Oh, at that position, um, I was making

around, um, I was making around 54,000 a year.

However, um, well, I recently got an offer letter that I could be making probably $40 an hour uh, due to the

experience that I have. So hopefully at least. >> Are you in like any immediate like c can you stay in this marriage till May?

Oh yeah, definitely. >> Okay. So, there's not like a >> husband provides. Yes. Now, >> what what's wrong with your marriage, huh?

>> Well, um

uh I think um during a marriage, you

should be able to negotiate the terms of

the initial plans. For instance, my husband and I agreed that we will be homeschooling our children at the very beginning of our marriage. Um and everything was going fine since I was working also from home. Um my kids were

little so that was manageable.

Um but uh for instance it came to a

point that I was able to change jobs uh

working outside of the house and uh my

husband didn't really like that. Um and

also it was a little hard for me to be away from my daughter. Um,

so >> that does not sound like the reason to end a marriage.

>> Uh, well also we

uh well for instance I I wanted to work and now that my son is one year old

>> however uh my husband >> so there's a there's a values difference. So have you guys done counseling? Have you guys wor have you sought a professional?

>> Uh well I have suggested that of course

to my husband since uh we have been

gotten into an argument uh about

finances and uh our homeschooling but uh

yeah for instance I I have suggested that and my husband does not does not think it's a >> Have you have you seen someone Stella

>> I'm sorry. Have you seen someone professionally yourself? >> Uh we hooked on individually. Uh >> okay. >> It was two years ago and Okay.

>> but honestly we gave up.

>> Okay. Well,

everything in my mind I would I would exhaust every level of energy and effort and time and money to make this marriage

work. and the reasons that you're giving

me and I'm sure there are symptoms of bigger things going on underneath, you know, from from a depth level perspective with your marriage. Um, but I I would I would push you to to go back before you make this decision.

I would implore you to to go and sit down and be in therapy for for months and see what else can change in your

marriage that this doesn't have to be the outcome.

And if you still get to this re if you still get to this place that you are going to, you know, that that this is the route and you're going to file for a divorce, then um I mean then I would

start working. I wouldn't be homeschooling right now. I would I would be I would be back in the workforce and not let the first time to be in the workforce is in the middle of a divorce.

But again, I would want that to be >> I would want you guys to do a lot of work >> since especially the school year. Um,

selling it's a four-year-old. Okay. Yeah. That I would not I would >> I I would not put that pressure on yourself. >> I mean, even kindergarten, right? Like if you got to repeat kinderg

Yeah, that's light lifting. Some kids don't even do preschool and go straight to kindergarten. So, I would not hedge

so much weight on this Europe for quote unquote homeschool for your kids. I would be waiting my marriage, the work

around that andor getting back into the workforce >> or both. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Or both. Exactly. >> And say, you know, okay, I'm I'm announcing the kids are going into daycare and I'm taking this new job and I'm going to see a marriage counselor.

>> Will you come with me?

>> Cuz if you don't if you don't, we're probably going to end this. But I'm going to go work on it and I want to work on it together. And if you want to give it a try, this is how it's going to go. and I'm going to make an announcement da this is what's happening and it's not a question.

It's not a not a asking permission. >> It sounds like he wants you to be doing this >> stating that's what I'm going to do. You take that offer letter, $40 an hour, you go to work but to get in daycare. Let's do it.

And cuz that's what's coming anyway. Might as well just decide and do it and uh and then make the make the moves. But I'm with Rachel.

I'm having trouble connecting with you. um enough that I can

understand why this is going on. So, I I think you do need to follow Rachel's suggestion.

[Music]

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[Music]

Bob is in New Hampshire. Hey Bob, how are you? >> I'm doing okay, I guess. Dave, >> cool. How can we help?

Well, um we've for quite a while now

we've had uh financial problems with bills. Uh we owe a lot of um in uh debt

and u one of the problems is uh my wife

has a habit of spending constantly and

uh she pretty much goes through all of the um income that we have in a month.

uh we've had discussions over it and everything and you know it it it doesn't set in but it is a little bit I mean

she's a little she's a little better but she just has this habit of when she walks in the store she's got to buy

>> okay how can we help >> well my question is um as to what

direction should I be using to

um I guess get her to stop completely from uh um wasting the money and then uh

being able to catch up on things.

>> I mean Bob, when you say that I mean you're saying that she's spending the whole paycheck. So would you >> I mean would you think it it's a level of addiction? Would you say would you go that far? >> Oh yes. Yes.

>> And has she gotten help for it?

>> Um >> besides you just telling her not to.

Okay. Why not? >> Yeah. Yeah. We've had numerous discussions on it >> because you're not going to change her.

She has to do the work to understand what is happening for her because it's a real thing. I mean, we see that more often than I mean, it's becoming more and more common, I feel like.

>> Um, so why why has she not taken steps

to find healing in this?

Um well the the strange thing is she knows

that um she's you know the the the problem to

uh our problem and um you know she's

always feeling sorry for it but uh you

know when when the income comes in she goes out and she spends and she doesn't look at what she's spending. In other words she'll go out groceries. Pardon

me. >> How old are you two?

>> Uh, she's 78 and I'm going to be 73 in

the next couple of weeks. >> But why don't you just take her like she can't have access to the money?

>> Like if it's an addiction like this, this is what we would tell couples is to say the one that is struggling does not get access to money because she has a spending addiction. and you would say,

"All right, we're going to have X amount for groceries, and when you go to the grocery store, this is, you know, if that's if that's what she does, then here's the amount you have." Because she doesn't get access to the checking account. >> Yeah. And and and the income, what is your income at monthly?

>> Um, believe it or not, it's it's over 7,000. >> Okay. I believe it. And um and how much

debt have you guys run up? Well, the house still has 167,000 I mean uh

267,000.

We probably have about $40,000 in debt

>> on what?

>> Well, we have uh one vehicle

um you know, we have numerous credit cards. >> So, what do you owe on your car?

>> Um I believe it's about 25,000.

>> Okay. And what do you owe on the credit cards?

credit cards uh total about um $10,000.

>> Okay. And um that's 35. And what's the

other five?

>> Uh the other five would probably be Well, actually, we just had a roof put on a house, so >> that's five grand.

>> Yeah. >> Really? You had a roof put on your house for $5,000?

>> Well, I mean, I paid some of it, so there's some money left over on it.

>> Okay. Like a lot more. Okay.

So, um, >> so you guys can live on $7,000 if you have your if you're in agreement and in alignment and you stick to a budget and you could reduce the debt. Agreed.

>> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. Is there you own two cars?

>> The other one's paid for. >> One vehicle. >> I'm sorry. >> One vehicle. >> The only do the only car you have is $25,000 in debt, >> right? >> Okay. All right. Um, but I I think you

could probably with that kind of an income clear the $40,000 in debt if we were reasonably spending

on $7,000. Agreed.

>> That's what your problem is. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> And so I you know the way it's going to sound at my house and you can do what you want to do, but you called us is hun

I think we have a problem and it's you.

You're out of control and you can't seem to control it and it's really sad.

Consequently, we don't have any money and we're in debt and we have plenty of income. And so, here's what's going to

happen. We're going to try this first.

We're going to agree on a budget this month. You and I both have a vote. We're

going to spend $7,000 on the Every Dollar app and we're going to have a plan and we're going to stick to that plan and you're not going to go into a store and go out of control again. If you do next month, you will have zero

access to the money. I will shut everything down and put it in my name to protect me and our family from you.

>> Right? >> That's how it's going to sound. So, we're going to try this together like two grown-ups that can function. And so, if you're being immature, you can merely adjust the immaturity.

If you are an addict, we're going to discover that in one more month. And uh we're going to treat you >> Yeah. like an addict. At that point, I don't know.

I can't diagnose if someone has an OCD. >> Well, there's a level of medicating that's for sure going on. >> Well, at a minimum, there's immaturity and princess syndrome or something, right? But, uh, but at a minimum, at a maximum, 2% of the public has been diagnosed literally with a spending addiction, a shopping addiction, >> and 2%.

you know it's a psychological label and done by professionals and we deal with them but most of the time when we deal with it we're just dealing with somebody who's being selfish, immature and a princess or I deserve it and you don't

>> kind of thing and you so I don't know which one she is but I I would if it was my wife I'm going to have a real clear conversation that says for one more month we're going to try this and if we fail this experiment experiment that you and I cannot act like two adults at 78 freaking years old. We can't act like grown-ups and live within our means.

Then I'm going to shut down your access to everything. >> And it sounds like that's what's going to happen. I think it is. Yeah. 100%.

And Bob, for her sake, too, >> encouraging her. We just said this in the last call, but for real, she needs to go get help for it because as she's not a whole person like there there is a level there that is eroding her quality

of life, who she is as a person and who she's going to be as a wife. I'm like, you're getting someone who's not functioning and none of us are fully, but but there is a a very obvious issue

there that she's just not addressing headon. And and I don't think you're getting the quality wife that you could have too if she doesn't go through a level of healing to this because that's probably what I mean like yeah it could be immaturity and all of it but at 78 and him having this conversation her knowing intellectually where they are but her compulsion it's still happening.

>> There's stuff happening in there. So I I would for her sake like the financial side is one thing Bob but if that's my spouse I'm like I want her to get healing. I want her to to understand what's going on and to and to find I

don't know peace in this because there's just chaos happening inside of her I would imagine and it's coming out medicating in spending and so you're not getting a great wife either a great partner she's not getting a great self I don't know there's a lot there >> there's a thing mixed up between in the psychology and the spirituality

>> of godliness with contentment is great

gain And if I can't find contentment and so

I'm chasing it >> somewhere else. >> Um that is a spiritual disease and it's also can be >> an addictive compulsion.

>> Um and it can be >> just immaturity immaturity, you know, self-centeredness. And no one ever told me no. >> That's right. >> And including you, Bob. you've never told her no and um you know and her

daddy >> in a in a pretty like >> yeah like >> consequential way. >> We're not doing that. >> Yeah. >> That's not an option. And so um so I

can't tell exactly and I I I'm really

not going to diagnose something as >> severe as a spending addiction in this, but it it could be. So, I'm going to treat it that that way and move down that process. And it it's going to stop one way or the other.

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

Well, I got to tell you, we have a wonderful product that we do a a low

volume, very expensive print run on. Uh we turn the creatives loose and just let them play in their little sandbox and they do a beautiful job making this product. Lights out. Uh it is the Ramsay gold planner and I

think this is our 10th year maybe of doing this and um it is drop deadad

gorgeous. It's very expensive to produce because it's so pretty and all this stuff is in it and uh but we've got it on sale as the pre-sale for 2026. If you want your Ramsey gold planner, it's only 35.97 and that's good through Labor Day.

So, next week that deal will be gone in other words. And so, if you want one, you need to get in there. What it is is you open up the month and as you open up the month at the beginning of the month's a couple of page, I would call it almost a devotional from Jade or Rachel or John Deloney. And then when

you open the next page, it's the entire month spread out on the two pages. When you open the next page, it's the first week of the month spread out on two pages and then the next week and then the next week and then the next week, then you go the next month. So, if you're old school, my wife still keeps one of these old school handdone calendars all the time. Carries it around with her. If you like that stuff and you, you know, you and you want the inspiration from Rachel, Jade, and John,

and it's really good. Uh, and the stickers there to do the whole thing, the whole bit. There's a whole thing around these gold planners that >> it's not just a calendar. got it own little world around it.

>> So anyway, it's uh better than ever. New monthly content uh from everybody and

again till Labor Day, it's only 35.97 and we will take the price on up because we only do about 10 or 20,000 of these things. So we don't do a huge volume.

It's not like we sell 2 million of them or something. So >> so timesensitive once the new year hits, you're done. So >> if we don't sell them, we got to put them in the dumpster. So yeah, we got to make sure that we sell out. And so ramseyolutions.com/store uh or if you're uh you know listening online, you can click the link in the description. Nick's in California. Hi Nick. How are you?

>> Good. How's it going, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Love it. Uh my wife and I, we went through FPU right after we got married.

We followed your plan ever since.

>> How long you been married? >> In 17 years.

>> Well, good for you. Wow. You a millionaire? >> Yeah. Uh yeah. Well, pretty much. Um, we

Yeah, it's Yeah, really good. >> Uh, so we make we gross about 350 a year. We have over 400,000 saved. Um,

combining, you know, all the Roths and the kid savings and whatnot. >> Good. >> Uh, yeah. So, we've been very disciplined.

Um, and you know, you've you've helped us get there. It's been really really great. But I feel like, okay, we've done this for so long, it's kind of become who we are. and we're saving and we're building wealth and you know we pay off one thing we got debtree we didn't do the call but we ended up buying another farm and then now we got more debt now you know but that that's producing income too and you know now our kids are growing up and they're kind of at a fun age and I don't want to miss out on memories but we're so caught up into just paying down debt and saving and building wealth that we're not you know I want to go buy jet skis and I want to get quads and I want to go do fun things that I did as a kid and make those memories with Um, now, you know, while they still like me.

>> Okay. >> Wait, wait, wait.

>> Uh, I would say real estate's 90% of it.

I mean, we got a tractor. Um, >> Oh, you flunked to FPU.

>> Well, >> oh, I thought you were a star pupil and became a millionaire and then you went and financed a tractor.

Well, that that is actually an interesting >> No, there's nothing interesting at all about it. >> It's it's pitiful.

>> Hey, Nick. But you got Hey, but he's got $400,000 in savings. I know.

>> That's in his That's in his Roth IAS. He can't pay the tractor off with that.

What do you owe on your tractor?

>> Do you have other Do you have liquid savings, Nick? >> What do you owe on your tractor, Nick?

>> I actually got it for free. I'll just say that. Uh, I thought you said you had a debt on it.

>> I I do. It's 25,000, but it was 0%. So,

I took the money I got back from buying it from a government grant uh and put it on debt. Then I wrote the tractor off and saved myself 16,000 in taxes. So, I

was just like, "Oh, with the government grant and the tax refund, it actually paid for the whole tractor. I put it on the line of credit." >> But now Nick can't buy jet skis. Oh my gosh.

Anyway, so it's 25,000. It'll be paid off in 7 months. >> Okay. Is that your only debt other than the land?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And do you have your emergency fund in place?

>> Yep. >> How much is in it?

>> 31,000. >> Okay. Pay the tractor off today, honey.

>> Today? Okay. >> Today. Rebuild your emergency fund.

>> Okay. Remember, we're going back to FPU.

I'm taking you back to class. This is the remedial version. And uh >> oh boy, it's been a while.

>> We're doing the baby steps again here.

Okay, we got to clear the tractor. Got to rebuild the emergency fund. Then when you're to answer your overall question, once you clean up this little mess you made that you rationalized out of your butt. Um, now once you do all that, once

you clean up the mess, then what I'm going to do, if I'm in your shoes, you're in baby steps four, five, and six, putting 15% away for retirement.

You're putting money for kids college, and you're reducing the real estate debt. When you're in one through three

getting out of debt other than real estate and you are and building your emergency fund, you are intense and not allowed to do anything except get out of debt and build the emergency fund. When you're in four, five, and six, you are in in the phase of intentional, not

intense. And that is the phase that when a guy makes 350 grand, he should be able to put 15% aside should be able to uh in

in his 401ks and Roth IAS growing those and still have plenty of margin to buy a quad >> and a jet ski.

>> I mean, >> what's a quad? >> Four-wheeler. >> Oh. >> And so, um, like those like, you know,

anyway, um, >> like a side by side. >> Yeah. Fancy for >> And so, uh, yeah. So, you know, uh I just bought several of those for the farm for the grandkids.

>> That was that was fun cuz I wanted to, but I didn't Yeah. >> finance it at zero. I mean, I just bought it. Okay. But it and it was a small percentage of our world. And you can do that, too. So, you you make enough money to do some of the enjoyment things you're talking about in cash only.

No rationalization, no government kickbacks, no 0%. we're just going to pay for it like your grandmother did and that's the only way we're going to do it. And then you can enjoy those things because they're don't have all this associated intellectual guilt that goes with the stupid way I did the thing.

Okay? And but you move from intense to intentional and I think you can systematically inside your budget find the money to enjoy life while reducing

your mortgages somewhat and while putting 15% away. can do that in California making 350,000, but you've got to >> still enjoy your life. >> Yeah. You got to um go go back to the basics, blocking and tackling that you learned in the class 17 years ago that actually got you where you are and then you fell off the wagon and fell off the tractor and um

>> Oh, that's so fun.

>> But yeah, that that's it. So, um, you

know, what this does illustrate though, folks, is, um, this is a guy makes a lot of money. He's obviously a bright guy.

You know, dumb people generally don't make 350,000 a year. And, um, the the

message of debt, 0% debt, the message of debt is

necessary, debt is wise, debt is sophisticated. if you're going to get a, you know, a a tax credit from the government. And so this whole thing was sophisticated.

That message is so prevalent

that if you let your guard down, you'll

buy a tractor >> or get one for free and then go through the hoops to get back. >> Really free. He paid for the tractor,

but he got a tax credit >> credit with it >> and that he didn't use to pay off the debt. >> Right. Right. >> So he still has the debt. So But he talked himself into it. >> Yes. >> By the way, if you paid cash for the tractor, >> you would have also gotten the tax credit.

>> There's not a debt requirement to get the tax credit. So, but it made you rationalize and justify. So, what happened is is you got financial advice from the tractor salesman.

That's what happened. That's kind of a bad place to get it. Just just make note.

Heat. Heat. N. [Music]

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Sarah's in Phoenix. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Well, um, me and my husband started a business back in 2020, and addition to the debt I have now, we racked up about 34,000 in credit card debt to sustain.

The last couple of years, the business has been doing great and is steady, and I was able to pay that down just my credit card debt to 19,000. But out of the blue, I inherited $108,000.

And I'm just like, what do I do with this with all of my debt? And >> wow, who died? >> I just need advice. Um, nobody died at my um, it was just like a like a early

inheritance while they were still alive.

>> Oh, they Who advance who advanced you the money?

>> Um, uh, my uncle.

>> Okay. Wow. Got the rich uncle.

>> Very nice. >> I wondered where he was.

>> Okay. Um, >> the uncle everyone wants.

So, your business went through hell in 2020 and you subsidi you subsidized it with credit cards up to $34,000.

>> Yeah. >> And then you told me it's doing really well, but it only has paid down a few thousand. >> What is doing really well mean? How much profit are you making?

>> Um, about $7,000 a month.

>> Well, why have you only paid down a few thousand dollar then?

Are you profiting 7,000 a month or you're grossing$7,000 a month?

>> I'm well I'm grossing but also I pay I was

paying for just you know living expenses and food and stuff but >> No, I'm talking about your business.

>> It was my credit cards were 34,000. So they're >> I know. And they're down to 17. And in five whole years, you paid it off about $3,000 a year, which pretty much sucks

if your business is making $7,000 a month. >> Hardcore, really, really hardcore in like the last year. And we kind of did things a little bit backwards where we saved for a home

um down payment and all that. >> Okay, let me go back. Is your business making a profit or a gross revenue of 7,000? Which is

it? And I and and then yes, it's making a pro >> it's making a profit of7,000 and then I

also work um full-time at a job and I

make about $7,000. >> Okay. So you're bringing home Okay. Okay. >> So you have a $14,000 a month income and you're married.

>> Yes. >> And he makes what?

>> Um well he's he was with the business with me so that's included of one of the $7,000 a month. >> Okay. So, your total household income is $14,000 a month.

>> Yes. >> You you I'm still not positive you know what profit means.

This is a real profit after all business

business income minus business expenses

equals profit. Taxable income is $7,000

a month. Is that what you're telling me?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. And and are you putting any of that money back into the business or are you guys just bringing home exactly what you profit?

>> We're just not budgeters.

>> I don't know. We like spend like a couple thousand a month going out to eat and stuff like that. >> But here, grasp with me here. Here, there's a reason I'm asking all this regarding your inheritance, okay?

Because I don't want this 104,000 to

enable you to continue stupid butt behaviors that are going to destroy you.

I don't either. >> Okay. I And that's where I'm trying to get to because I want to I want to love you well here. I want to help you. And so >> yeah. And what we found, Sarah, is that money magnifies what you're already doing. So you're like, we're not great budgeters. We spend a couple of thousand just eating out like all that. And that's just >> and this allows you to continue in that misbehavior >> in a bigger way, which we don't want.

Right. And so >> I don't want to do now. >> That's right. That's right. Okay. I'm so glad. And how's your husband? Is he on board with this of changing completely how you guys have been doing money?

He He lets me do everything. He just

says, "You handle it. I trust you." >> Okay. Well, that's not good. That's got to end, too. That's got to end, too. >> Apparently, that's not working. >> Okay. >> Cuz y'all suck at this.

>> Yeah. >> So, I mean, we've got to adult up here cuz we're pissing away $14,000 a month.

So, what I'm going to do in your shoes is I'm going to take the 104,000, act like I don't own it, and put it in a high yield savings account. And then I'm going to go home and the two of us are going to sit down on $14,000 a month and in three months we're going to pay off this credit card.

>> Okay. >> $6,000 a month on the credit card till it's gone. And you're going to not go out to eat at all until you do that.

>> Yeah. That money will be going straight to the credit card. >> And you're not going and you're going to really learn what real profit is on the business. Are you keeping a separate set of books on the business? No.

>> Yes, >> you are. Have you kept your taxes paid?

>> Um, I owe like 10,000 this year.

>> Have you been doing quarterly estimates?

Do you know what that is? >> No.

>> I I know what it is, but we doing it.

>> Okay. But $7,000 a month, $70,000,

$84,000 a year.

>> And so taxes on that are not $10,000.

>> Taxes on that are $25,000.

Have you filed tax returns?

>> Uh, yes. My numbers are probably just

wrong. Sorry.

>> I think that's probably the accurate statement.

The cuz I I just there's I'm fishing around in some in murky water here. I can't tell what's going on. Okay. So, no, you do not need to use the hundred,000. The $100,000 gift is a

double gift. one, it's 100,000. The

second thing is it's going to make you all wake up and behave. If you don't, a

100,000 won't save you. 2 million won't save you. And so, number one, the

business ought to be in have a separate set of books. >> You and your husband tonight, y'all y'all have need a long week ahead

figuring all of this out. >> So, in in in business, you set a separate checking account and a separate set of books for the business. Only thing goes into that checking account is rent is income from the business. Only thing comes out of that checking account expenses from the business. What's left by definition is called profit. Only then can you take it home. When you take it home, you should set aside 25% of whatever you take home in yet another savings account for your quarterly estimates that are supposed to be filed.

If you are not filing them after 5 years, you are being penalized every single day.

for not filing your quarterlys. You're violating every IRS regulation. It's costing you out the butt.

>> Yeah. They need to sit down with an accountant probably. Yeah.

>> And start Yeah. and get the dad gum business running like a business. You You're You've under the illusion you can out earn your disorganization and chaos.

And you can't. I tried it. It doesn't work. I It caught up, hit me in the back of the head, knocked the hair off my head. Don't do this, okay? It's not fun.

You're going to bring pain to your life.

It's not cute and it's not okay. You're not a teenager. So, you guys need to sit down, run the business like grown-ups.

Then, when you bring money home after you've set aside a fourth for your taxes and filed your quarterly estimates properly, then and we can talk about how much is really coming into the house >> and what to do with it >> and and immediately need to clean up this debt because if you're making $10,000 a month, it's ridiculous that you that you have not reduced the debt any further than you have. So no more no more eating out. No well and no more you just take care of it because Sarah you've been on an island.

>> Survival survivor. We don't want that.

We want bougie Sarah. We don't want >> kick you off the island. >> But no but sitting down and you guys together >> do a budget and if you hold in line Sarah Kelly is gonna pick up. We're gonna give you total money makeover.

we're going to give you every dollar and entree leadership. Throw that book into um or and so but but to sit down and and to plan out your income that you guys have that has hit your account as a household and say here's exactly where our money is going. Rent or the I think you have a mortgage. You said you got a house.

So mortgage, lights, electricity, subscription. I mean you list out everything you guys spend money on. And then you're going to take a you're going to sit there and start deleting categories because you're not going out to eat.

You're cutting your lifestyle to nothing until this credit card debt is paid off.

And I mean, honestly, I don't know what >> start running this like you work for someone and you're going to get fired if you continue to suck at your job.

>> Because the problem is is if you take some of this 108,000 inheritance and just pay off the credit card debt, nothing has changed in you guys. So, I would push you not to use the inheritance to pay off the credit card debt. I would force you guys to do it.

You need to learn and actually participate and have the action towards this change. You have to feel it and go through it in your life. >> And if the numbers are anywhere near close, you're going to do it in about 3 months once you get your head screwed on. >> Yeah. You all have to sit down together, Sarah, >> tonight. And he has to start carrying the emotional weight of this with you together. This is the only way you win.

There's really not another option. This is it.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host today. The phone number is8825-55225.

Michelle's in Indiana. Hi, Michelle. How are you? >> I'm doing okay, thank you. How are you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> I So, recently I found out this past weekend how much we actually have in debt with credit cards and a personal loan. >> Um, recently just started watching your stuff and I we had not been doing finances together. He pays some, I pay some. But after learning a little bit, we joined finances and that's when I discovered all this debt.

>> Wow. I'm so honored. I'm happy for you guys that you're doing this.

>> I'm I'm sorry you found that you're in a hole, but you can get out. This is awesome. How much debt did you find?

>> Um 50,000 in credit cards and 12,000 in the personal loan.

>> Okay. Very. >> So 62,000. Who what was the credit was the credit card debt yours and his and just combined it's 50 or was it all his all yours? >> Um 99.9% his.

>> Okay. Okay. >> But but he used but he used the cards for utilities and groceries for household items. >> Yeah. I gotcha. Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Um he makes uh 101,000 a year.

>> Mhm. >> I make 21,000.

>> Okay. So 122. That's good. Very good. No

car debt.

>> Uh, two cars >> debt >> and they're upside down. So, that's not a good situation either. >> Oh, so this isn't your only debt. So, how much do you owe on the cars? >> No. Uh, one car is

uh 45,000.

>> Mhm. >> The other car is 65,000.

>> Whoa.

Okay. >> I know. >> And is there any other debt? Is there any other debt?

Uh, besides mortgage, no.

>> Okay. And what do you owe on your mortgage?

>> 315,000.

>> Okay. All right. >> You have $110,000 in cars.

>> I tell you what I uh can tell you for sure happened mathematically after doing this for 35 years. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Your cars stole your food money.

>> Yeah. >> And your food was put on a credit card.

Your husband has not been irresponsible except for the time that he went to the car lot.

>> Yeah. Had to have to let your car.

>> Yeah. So you you guys are broke. Your car broke >> and he was trying to prop it up because there's not enough money to pay for these stupid cars and live. And he

propped it up with credit cards. That's 100% what happened here. Your husband's not a bad guy. He was just trying to cover and make things happen.

Yes. And he wasn't trying to hide it from me. He didn't want me to worry. He said he was trying to work on it. >> Yeah. And you were separate in it, right? He was just taking care of We're not blaming him. I'm just saying that this credit card debt is not due to irresponsible spending.

It is due to the irresponsible purchase of vehicles that you can't afford.

>> I agree with you. I just don't know what steps to take. >> Okay. So on the $65,000 car, who's driving that one?

>> He is. >> Okay. So it's a truck.

>> No, it's a electric car.

>> Oh, okay.

>> Oh crap. Which one?

>> Honda.

Honda um prologue.

>> Okay.

And you owe 65. Do you have any idea what the actual market value of this log is?

I looked up Kelly's blue book and it said 30,000.

>> Oh gosh man. 30,000 for trade in or

private sale or >> um actually I think it was traded.

>> Okay. >> So it's probably worth 35.

>> Okay. Um which still sucks. So basically what we're saying is Honda electric cars have tanked in value.

They're like jumping off a cliff with no parachute in value. Okay. Wow. I didn't know they sucked that bad. Okay. That's really bad. >> Um. >> Yeah. >> Okay. How about the $45,000 car? Do you know? >> That's a That's Do I know what it's that's worth? >> Yeah. >> 27 27,000 >> and that was trade in. So that's probably 32. Okay.

>> All right. Okay.

>> So >> $30,000 loss. When did you buy the Honda?

Uh

um I'm sorry I'm a little nervous. I can't think straight a second. Um in the

>> He's had it less than a year.

>> Did you have negative equity in another car that you traded on it?

>> I think he did. Okay.

>> I think there was some negative equity >> cuz I'm I mean I know these electric

cars suck on holding their value. It's

just they're pitiful. But I did not think you could lose $30,000 in one year. I think that's probably not right.

>> So it's not they don't they're not that bad. So um I hope either way you're

there. Uh

okay, here's the problem.

If you keep it, it's going to keep tanking and you're going to look up and it's going to be worth 10 grand and you're going to owe 55.

Right. And so, you know, it's almost like >> to save the patient, we're going to have to amputate the leg. You know, >> it's like we got to stop the bleeding here. There too many too many amputations, too much blood in this metaphor. I got mixed metaphors going.

But anyway, yeah. So, we got to uh anyway, you've got to stop the loss in

value by getting rid of the car because it's going to get worse and worse and worse at an increasing rate.

Okay. So, wow. I'm so sorry. Um, do you

guys have any money? I haven't asked that. >> No. >> Okay. It's not a surprise. >> What do you make, Michelle? You make 22,000. What do you do for a living?

>> I was a nurse. I got injured and I'm on

disability now.

>> Okay. >> A permanent disability.

>> Permanent disability.

>> Sorry.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Or is there any >> be out there working it? So >> yeah. >> Yeah, you because man, you can make some bucks as a nurse.

>> That's a very good career. Oh man.

>> All right, so anyway, back to the whole thing. The great news is you now know where you are. >> The great news is you're now working together. And the great news is we have identified the problem and it's called a Honda prologue. And it's caused all of

this. It's all the result of buying a car >> and the $45,000. I mean, like I think all of it. >> Two cars. Two car. >> So, a part of me would just take if you can get a loan from the credit union, take the difference. You each go get $5,000 cars. I'd rather be $55,000 in debt than 110. >> Yep. Yep. >> Um >> I I would if you can get the credit union to loan you enough money to get out of both of these, sell them both, and get two $5,000 cars.

>> That's a huge change in direction. It's going to it's going to otherwise you're going to struggle with this for a decade. >> Mhm. >> And so we got to stop this thing going

off a cliff mathematically because you I mean you can tell from 65 down to 30, right? In a heartbeat, >> right? >> And we don't want to do that another year. >> Yeah. >> I I don't want that for you. I want you to be free. So >> And you guys Yeah. And >> you think you could get a loan at the credit union to cover the deficits on these cars?

Um, I'm not sure now because his score

of the credit's gone down.

>> Yeah. I'm going to go sit down and talk to him. If you've got either one of these loans with the credit union, it's a real reason to talk to them. >> Mhm. >> Cuz this is going to go sideways. It's bad. And then once you get that straightened up, you can address the other stuff pretty quick cuz you make good you make good money and now you're working together. The sun will come out.

But we got to get rid of you guys have two to three years. >> You got to get rid of the law. >> Intense of intense intense.

>> What a plan. Michelle, what a horrible car. And I'm a Honda fan in general, but

that's >> But not an electric fan. >> Not an electric fan.

>> Adds to it.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How many next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> There really is.

>> So we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including of course term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800356-4282.

That's 800 356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

John is in North Carolina. Hey John, how are you?

I'm good. Uh, actually, I'm a little uh

a little less than uh than I deserve. A little a little not good. Um, how are you? >> Oh, John. >> John, I'm sorry. >> How can we help today?

>> Uh, well, my uh my wife and I uh we got

ourselves in a little bit of a mess. Uh we're looking at about a million dollars in debt at the moment.

>> On what?

>> Um well, I just closed down my business.

uh in June and um so we we had taken out

some SBA loans um to keep the um to keep

the business afloat and um then we also have our house uh credit cards. Uh we

have IRS uh taxes due um and you know a

couple other things. >> How much is the um how much is the SBA?

Um, right now I think there's about 250,000 left on them. >> How much is on the IRS?

>> Uh, it's 350,000.

>> Okay. And, um,

how much on credit cards?

>> Uh, we actually just entered a consolidation loan. Not we weren't sure if that was the right thing to do or not, but it it dropped our monthly payment significantly. So, right now we're at about 100. I I think the total payoff was about 96.

>> Okay. And um so 67. What's the uh three

the other 300's? Your mortgage?

>> Uh 250,000 on the mortgage. Um we have

8,000 left on a car and then um just um

repaying um uh our accountants and

attorneys.

>> Which amounts to what?

Um 15,000 for an accountant, 88 8,000

for an attorney. Um >> and the attorney was for what?

>> I'm sorry. >> The attorney was for what?

>> Um they actually assisted me through my

IRS. Um they got me an installment plan for $500 a month, which was great until

um two months after the installment agreement went through. Um now um now

they're saying that uh we have to review everything again and that uh we will be at least liable for 175,000 to pay in

the trust fund.

>> I'm sorry. You're liable for 350,000. So how where's 175 come in?

>> I'm not sure. The that's what the officer said when I was on the phone with him. >> An additional 175. Not not an

additional. That's just >> that includes in the 350.

>> Okay. So, you you didn't you didn't hold your 941s back.

>> No, we we never held anything back. Um we we just weren't >> Yeah, they're not going to put that on payments. That's right. I don't I don't disagree with that. Okay. Um so, what is

your home worth?

>> Um about 550.

>> Okay. And what else do you own?

>> Nothing. Um, right before all this happened, um, we had, um, a rental property, we had land, uh, we sold all

those to, um,

uh, we we actually did a flip and we lost everything on top of that. Um, and then everything kind of just trickled down from that. Um, and then we paid off some credit cards back then as well, which was about four years ago. Um,

>> are you now working doing something else?

>> Yes. >> What do you make?

Uh just recently I was making um

260 but now I'm making 140. I I got let

go from one one job because uh um they

just couldn't afford me anymore.

>> So now it's 140. >> Okay. And your >> Does your wife work outside the home, sir? >> Um she makes about 20 grand.

>> How old are you?

>> 33. >> How long you been married? Eight years.

>> Okay. >> Do you guys have kids?

>> Three. >> Three.

>> Okay. Um I remember being right where you are. I was 28 with two.

>> And um and I didn't make it. I ended up bankrupt. Um but I can share with you a

couple things. Okay. Um, one is

uh this stuff will destroy your marriage

>> if you if you don't fight for your marriage. >> And so the two of you have to sit down and say regardless of what happens, we're it. We're doing it together. We're in it to win it. And we have to lock arms and it's you two against everybody else, right?

>> Okay. Um, and she's scared.

She's scared in a way you don't even understand.

And you, if you're normal, um, this has

taken a lot of your confidence and your swagger away.

>> Absolutely. >> It did me. It took it all away.

>> Okay. And uh cuz it just grinds you

under a boot. And so once you say those

things out loud, >> that means you're she gets extra hugs cuz she's terrified and we're going to do this. We're going to make it. We're not going to jail and we're not going to go hungry. I don't know what else bad is going to happen. But those two things we do know. >> Okay. >> Right >> now. Um so you protect your marriage and

you understand that um that business

failure is a part of running a business.

Sometimes it happens and um and it

doesn't define the rest of your life unless you allow it to. Uh but it but it

does suck and it does make you think that you're not worthy and you are worthy. >> You're better. You're a lot better than you feel about you right now. Okay, hear me, brother.

>> You're a lot better than you feel about you. I've been there. I know. And uh out

of the ashes of mine, this whole thing grew. So, there's something the other side of this. or something else to do.

But right now sucks beyond belief.

So food on the table trumps anybody else's request.

Lights and water kept on trumps anybody else's request.

Paying the first mortgage on the residence so we have a place to eat, we have food and water and utilities trumps anybody else's request. No one gets in line in front of your family. Do you hear me, sir? >> Yes, sir. >> You take care of them and then you'll you'll her terror will start to subside and your confidence will start to grow and that's where you're going to grow to fight through this is taking care of those things first. Okay.

>> Absolutely. >> Are you guys in a good church?

>> Um, >> you need to be. You're not. You need to be. Okay. You need to get some people around you that love you and and walk

into the presence of God on Sunday morning while you're fighting the devil cuz this is wicked stuff you're going through, dude. Okay? It's warfare and

there's no other way around it. You got to fight it. Okay? Now, I don't know if you're going to make it or not mathematically.

That's a secondary concern. I'm concerned that you make it and that your wife makes it and your marriage makes it and your kids make it and the rest of these people can jump off a cliff.

>> They're irrelevant to me. The SBA is going to get what they deserve probably, which is nothing.

Cuz they're bankruptible. The IRS is not bankruptible. And those 941s are not going away.

So that thing right there is a real mess. You may end up selling the house to clear the stinking IRS, >> right? I was thinking about going bankrupt, but uh the SBA um you know

it's it's personally guaranteed. So there I don't know if >> you can't bankrupt the business. You're bankrupt because you personally guaranteed it. And that probably means you're selling the house to pay the IRS.

So you need to get the advice of a bankruptcy attorney. I'm not telling you to file, but you need to learn what your options are because number one is not

credit cards. They can jump in a creek.

I'm not paying them nothing. Forget whatever you're paying them. Screw them.

They get nothing. >> And the SBA, screw them. They get nothing right now. They can all just sit over there and look at this mess because they created it, too. And we're going to get we're going to work on the IRS. Oh, you got to keep the car payment paid because you have a car to get to work.

And you need to sit down with the bankruptcy attorney and learn. But I think if there's a way to manipulate through this, you're probably going to end up selling the house to clear the IRS. The rest of it is bankruptible and you can start over. But um I don't I

don't know how you're going to clear all this making 140. There may be a way though. There may be a way. So, but take care of you, John. Take care of your wife. Okay? Promise me.

>> I promise. >> All right. And we're here. If you need us, you call me anytime. I'm here to help you. I've been right where you are.

Hang on. Kelly's going to pick up. I'm going to put you with Ramsey Coach as my gift. We're going to be with you and walk with you. >> Thank you, Dave.

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[Music]

[Music]

[Music] Hey, we love debtfree screams on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsay Solutions. We love them even more when they're one of our own Ramsay team members. Yeah, here we go. Grant and

Jordan Trailer are with us. Uh Grant is a director of data and analytics with us at Ramsey Glo Global. How long you been with us? >> Uh about 7 and a2 years.

>> 7 and a2 years. Wow. Okay. Cool. And uh

how much debt have you guys paid, Grant?

>> We paid off just over $130,000.

>> All right. Very cool. And what kind of debt was that? >> Uh that was all the mortgage.

>> Hey house.

>> Paid off your house.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Hey, how old are you two weirdos?

>> I'm 37 and she's a little younger than me. >> I like it. That's a good answer. Like really legit. 36.

>> I was little. a very little.

>> Way to go, guys. What's the house worth?

>> Uh, we think it's worth around 350,000 or so. >> I love it. Amazing. >> Way to go, guys. So, how long did it take you to knock the house out? >> Uh, just over 4 and a half years.

>> Okay. So, you've been doing that while you were working here? >> Yes, sir. >> Now, how weird is it to be working on your get out of debt plan while working at Ramson?

>> Awkward. Weird. >> It It makes it pretty easy to be honest.

got a great support system around me helping encourage us along the way. It's been really cool. >> Yeah. You're not really given an option.

>> It's true. >> We do give you an option. We're not looking at your stuff, but I mean, everybody around you is encouraging rather than discouraging. >> Yeah. >> So, cheering you on. Cheering you on.

Cheering you on. And since it's team members, uh for those of you out there in uh listening on the other side of this on a speaker, we do not ask their um we've got about 150 of their teammates standing around here. So, we don't ask their income. Okay?

So, that's not part of it. But he did it. You did it in in seven. I mean, no, four.

You've been here seven years. You did it in four and a half years. >> Was it faster than you guys were pl like when you originally kind of mapped it out.

>> Uh, it went a little slower. Honestly, when we kind of started out, we set a behag that we knew the math didn't work on. Um, but we just wanted to be aggressive because we knew we didn't really have a math problem. We had a behavior problem and we needed to set a goal so big that it seemed hard and we had to change our behaviors around it.

>> Okay. Yes. So, so the goal itself was probably like a little impossible, but you wanted that. >> Yeah.

Three and a half years was the goal. So, we were about a year behind that. >> Okay. Okay.

So, >> you're you're a failure.

>> None of this failure. Yeah.

>> So, uh Jordan, I mean, he comes to work here and he comes home and we're going to pay off the house in three and a half years. And you're going, "What?" Well, the conversations like that always come at like 11 at night when the kids are, you know, going down and it's quiet and I'm exhausted. And so I definitely did not agree uh at first. It it not only

impossible but like why >> and I don't have this culture around me every day. And so he comes home with these really big ideas and then I kind

of look at him like he's crazy and then he talks me through it. But honestly, the thing that helped the most was he gave me a visual in his data life and it showed me this is where you know like we're wasting money at this point and I was like well that's a lot of money.

>> Yeah. It does like it really doesn't actually make sense to keep doing this so let's do it you know >> let's do it. >> Data guy got you with data.

>> I know graphs and all >> you data analytics comes home from work.

Oh wow. >> Literally every day. Yes. >> I love it. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah.

>> And you have three kids during the time.

So, were you guys because how intense do you feel like you guys were in the four and a half? Like, was it really like, okay, we're going to do as much as we can, as fast as we can, or did y'all live a little through baby steps four through six? >> It felt a bit like a run ahead. Hold on, slow down.

Run ahead. A little slow down. I'm like you. It's like, let's celebrate.

Let's be present. Let's enjoy what we have right now. >> Um, and so he went into some moments that were like, whoa, we're not getting where we're supposed to be going. This is frustrating.

I think that was where he felt like, are we actually going to keep doing this?

needed though I needed that cup of coffee. You know what I mean? Where it was like, um, no, I need I like that.

>> Yeah. And so, uh, we had an anniversary

celebration in the middle of that that was big and just a ton of fun and we acted like kids and I'm kind of still living on that. That was like over two years ago, you know, but when you're not used to having coffee, you know what I'm saying? It's like stuff helps go a long time. So, and our kids are like they don't know that we're weird because they're too young.

Like this is just weird, you know, and that's just their normal. And so >> they talk about it like it's normal, you know? So, I mean, yeah, they >> Well, it's not it's not those kids' parents are heroes. You guys are amazing.

This is You've changed your whole family tree because now you have your entire income, >> no debt of any kind, and you're only 37

years old. >> Yeah. How does that feel?

>> Uh, it feels honestly incredible. We we

knew when we went into the bank, I kind of expected like that moment where we pay it off to be this emotional high and then we'd go back to normal life and it wouldn't feel that different in the day-to-day and it was honestly completely flipped. Uh, in the bank it felt like we were just in a dingy bank surrounded by people who were pretending to be excited for us and it was kind of antilimactic. >> Like yay, >> yay.

And then we went back to everyday life and there was this tangible weight that I didn't know I was walking under the whole time that I could just feel not there. Like there was this freedom that >> I didn't expect. And Jordan and I both made a comment along the way of noticing that and calling out how it was a lot more of a relief than we honestly expected it to be in the dayto-day.

>> What's the big what's the big thing you're going to do for yourselves to celebrate? >> The the big thing to celebrate? We haven't decided where we're going to go yet, but we have always kind of dangled as a carrot out at the other end of this that we want to go on a big trip with our family and like our kids have >> gotten older. So, what that was going to look like has changed over the four and a half years.

So, we're figuring that out.

Either go international or even stay domestic and just really live it up for a little while. Go big. >> I love it. I like it. >> How many paychecks have you guys had without the house payment? >> I think only two. This was the first month's budget that we had without the Crazy. >> That was a tricky conversation. Yeah.

>> Why? >> Cuz you want to spend it. >> No. What? >> No. Because we realized immediately like you you go into your muscle, you know, movement of like, okay, budget talk.

>> And then all of a sudden it was like, well, now that money is sitting there and so he starts allocating and then I come along because I'm the one that comes up behind, you know, cuz I'm not the nerd. And uh and then it was like,

uh, no. Uh, that's not what I was thinking we'd do with that money. And he's like, "Yeah, no." And so, so then

our kids were gone with our amazing parents who have been our biggest cheerleaders this whole time. Shout out to all three sets of parents. And um they were gone and we did a weekend of vision casting >> and that was where it was like, whoa,

debt is a freaking weight >> and it's gone. And now we get to just >> so great. And that was like such an amazing moment not only for the financial part of our home but like us our marriage who we are as souls like we

are imagebearers you know of the kingdom and we're imaging him >> in his >> yeah I'm not going to do that in his generosity you know and so that was the moment for me where it was just like >> that's fun >> we've never had this before we never talked like this before that is so cool >> that's fun >> yeah it was really cool we we kind of in that moment realized we've been going for four and a half years and we had this shared goal and now we don't have that shared goal and we have different expectations and so it was really cool to have that conversation and actually align to where do we want to be 30 years from now.

>> This is a problem people need to have. I >> agree.

>> So good. >> All right, bring the kiddos up. Let's hear their names and ages. Come on up,

guys. And >> so this is Cal. He's 10. Kate is eight.

And Finley is six. >> All right. Gosh, >> you guys have your mom and dad have changed your whole lives and your kids' lives. You don't even know it yet. It's pretty impressive. Very, very cool stuff. Very well done.

>> Did y'all get to miss school today? Did y'all get to miss school to be here? >> No, they're homeschooled. We did all >> Okay. I was like, that's pretty good. That's a good day. That's a good day.

>> All right. Fun. Very fun. All right, guys. 130,000 paid off. House and

everything at 37 years old. They did it

in 4 and 1/2 years. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. Three, two, one.

We're debtree.

>> Yeah.

[Music] >> Wow.

>> Wow. >> Amazing. Oh my gosh,

>> man. That's a power couple right there.

And we have the privilege of working with one of them every >> day. >> Pretty cool stuff. Well, and it just shows when you're intentional and you have the plan, even though it's a big lofty goal like they did the three and a half years, you're, you know, you have something you're aiming for. Even something like paying off a house, which feels impossible for so many people.

>> Boom. >> They did it. >> Boom. >> Don't tell me it can't be done.

>> Grant and Jordan will tell you otherwise. >> Boom.

[Music]

[Music]

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Well, make them. It's a good thing. Otherwise, the state's going to make them for you. Uh, and so, well, everything goes to the family anyway.

No, it al goes to the lawyer. The lawyers get all of it if you don't do a will.

You've got to get your wills done. It's nuts. The number of people that die without a will is it's like seven out of 10 people. This is not good. It's a good way to destroy what little bit of wealth you've built instead of letting your family benefit from it. And and so go to ramseyssolutions.com/willsquiz

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and we'll help tell you what the right kind of will is. Do you need to go to a lawyer and do an in-depth thing or can you go to Mama Bear Legal Forms and do a online will in about 30 minutes? I don't care. But you need to get one done.

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If you've moved states, you need a new will. If your marital status has changed, you need a new will. If major life stuff has blown up, you probably need a new will or you update, change,

amendment, whatever. I don't care, but you need to get this. Stay on top of this stuff, guys. It's too emotionally expensive for those people you leave behind. Trenton is in Washington. Hi,

Trenton. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm doing fine. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Oh, not a whole lot. had a uh friend recommend me to you and uh I've been hooked on your shows ever since I started watching. Um just had a question. Uh you know, I kind of got myself in a bit of a hole here. I uh recently got let go from my job >> unemployed. >> I got in an accident with a work truck

on while I was on shift uh and out to a job

site. >> So every time someone wrecks a truck, they fire them >> apparently. Oh, >> you weren't like drunk or something?

>> Nope, not at all.

>> Okay. What were you making?

>> Uh, roughly 80,000 a year.

>> You got CDL? >> 85,000. No, light duty tow truck driver

and a roadside mechanic for heavy duty trucks such as semiis.

>> Okay. So, you're a diesel mechanic, >> correct? >> Okay, that's good news. All right.

cuz you probably weren't making enough. I mean, a lot of diesel mechanics make over a hundred.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I originally got put on to

the job for the light duty towing. I just wanted to branch out and try something a little different, I guess. >> Do you have cir do you have certifications in diesel?

>> I do. >> You do?

Okay. How long ago did you get fired?

>> Uh roughly about two months ago, I want to say. >> Why are you not working? and turning a wrench somewhere.

>> Uh, that's the thing is I'm unsure.

I enjoyed towing a lot. I love towing. I want to get back into towing, but

now with that on my record, it's kind of hard. >> Yeah. So, don't >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. You You need a job. You've been sitting on your butt for two and a half months. >> You're going to starve to death. You need to go get a job turning wrench, man. You make a 100K as a diesel mechanic. Go be a mechanic tomorrow.

>> Yeah. and you work your way back into towing in the future years or open your own towing thing later. But let's not let's not get hungry first.

>> What have you been doing during the two and a half months? Watching Oprah

>> Oprah's that in your shows Netflix >> working with friends. >> He's watching your rerun.

>> Watching me, not Oprah. That's great. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, honey, you got you got to get >> a friend making a little bit of money here and there is >> Yeah, you're not Yeah, you're you're sitting on your butt, >> dude. You got to go. You got to go get the You make you have a wonderful skill.

>> For real though, Tinton, >> you have a wonderful skill. >> How are you How are you surviving? How are you paying for food and keeping your rent or mortgage paid, you know, bills?

>> I'm just running to the end of my savings and my wife is currently working. >> Oh, you're married. >> What does she make? Correct. Uh,

I think probably 40 or 50,000 a year.

>> And how old are you, sir?

>> I'm 25. >> Okay. And how much debt do you have?

>> Around 60,000. >> On what?

>> Uh, I think it's like 40 45 on personal

loans, like 15 on two vehicles.

>> Okay. >> Okay. All right. Sure. Are you guys working together? >> You and your wife >> with money or is it >> correct? Yes. No, everything's shared.

It is bank account shared payments.

Everything >> Everything's together. >> Well, let's uh What's she What's she doing? Is she Is what's she saying to you? Is she like, "Hey, Trenton, >> go." Like, what is she Is she urging you to get out there?

>> She is. Yeah. And I guess a big reason that I am not actively looking today is I'm getting ready to go to Ohio for my dad's wedding. Uh not next week, but the week after. And you know, jobs are probably

not going to want to hire me with taking vacation two two weeks from today. I'm going to be >> get the job and it starts the day you get back.

>> Yeah.

I don't know. I guess Yeah. I've definitely been lazy. >> No, listen. Here's what happened. Okay.

You're 25 years old. You were doing something you loved with people you liked and an accident happened that wasn't your fault.

Or if it was your fault, it was still an accident. You didn't do it on purpose.

And the jerks fired you

and it knocked the wind out of you

and you've been laying around two months trying to get your breath back because it knocked the snot out of you. Took some of your confidence and your swagger away.

>> Yeah. Is that right?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I could uh >> so I trying I'm trying to tell you in

the last few minutes that you sir have a

wonderful skill that is very marketable and you

can make a lot of money and stacking some cash right now would feel really good to a bruised ego.

>> Yeah, >> it'd be good. Really good. It would return some of your dignity to you that they stole from you.

>> It's kind of ridiculous that they fired you, but they did.

>> I don't know where I was at with it, but you just got to accept it and and roll with what's currently in life, you know. >> Yeah. Well, that's true. But you got to roll now. Okay.

>> What I'm telling you is it's normal to get the breath knocked out of you and it's normal for something like this to hurt. But it you cannot let that be a

reason to be sidelined. They don't have the power to sideline you. Only you have the power to sideline you. And you have sidelined yourself for the last two and a half months while you hurt from this experience. And so I'm mean old Uncle

Dave who's telling you you got chops, you got tools, you know how to fix stuff that nobody else on the planet hardly knows how to do. You can make 80 to 120 grand a year. turn the wrench on a diesel, buddy. And then you go stack you

some cash, clear up this debt, pile up some money, buy you a truck, start your own towing company in four years.

>> Yeah, >> I'll show them.

>> Yeah, that sounds like a damn good plan.

>> Yeah, but it's not going to be it's not going to happen. Uh, working three hours a week, >> right? >> Screwing around, >> right? It's time to throw your shoulders back and go, I'm better than the way I was treated.

>> You are better than the way you were treated. >> You are better than the way you were treated. >> You have an actual skill in a world that

doesn't know how to do things. You know how to do things.

And so you you you have a tremendous advantage.

I mean, if you were just doing dumb work

and got fired and then you got to go look for more dumb work that this conversation could wouldn't sound like this.

But dude, I'm serious. I mean, Mike Row that does dirty jobs and I he he was showing me the the data the other day on the trades and one of the things that keeps popping up and one of the hottest things out there and and the biggest shortage is freaking diesel mechanics.

>> Literally what Yeah. I talked to one the other day that's making 120.

>> And so I I'm serious. It's not a bad You

are in a really good shape. And the best, let me tell you, the best revenge for stuff like this is success.

Success is a wonderful revenge. And you

don't even have to mention their name ever again. You just move on. And then you can build a company bigger than them.

by the time you're 46. It could happen.

Could happen. I know guys that do it.

Have at it, brother.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and my daughter is my co-host today. The number is88255225.

An is in Kentucky. Hi, Anne. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um I'm calling today with a little bit of a different dilemma. Um my husband and I have been married for a little over 10 years. Um we graduated right before we got married and he found you. So, we um well, he had to get me on

board kind of, but we decided to follow the baby steps. Um we paid off over

$300,000 of student loan debt in about four years. >> Oh my gosh. And then we decided we decided we would start saving for a down payment for our first home. >> Good. >> Um so we did that. We were started investing in our 401ks, doing all the right things. Um but it's been kind of a

struggle to find the right home. Um trying to find something that we both agree on. So that was about 5 years ago

now and we still haven't taken the plunge. Um mostly on my husband's end.

Um, and in the meantime, you know, we've just been piling up all this cash. So, we have >> Okay, so wait a minute. Stop. Stop. I'm confused. The goal that we both agreed to was to save up a big down payment and then get a house >> and now you can't agree on the house for

five years.

>> That's correct. Um, >> what is it what is it he wants that you don't want or vice versa? Um, well, I think at this point the biggest issue is that we have over $600,000 saved and

seeing that money go.

>> Okay. No, no, no. You said you couldn't agree on the house.

>> Well, I am >> now he just doesn't want to buy a house.

>> Well, he won't admit to that. But I do think that's a big part of it. Yes. >> Okay. So, no, let me go back to the other part cuz >> if he found a house he liked >> Uhhuh. >> I think you could get him to do it.

Well, did he has he ever found a house he liked in or do you kept showing him over five years different houses and he just didn't like it anymore? >> No. >> Well, a little caveat. We live in like Appalachia. There's not a lot of real estate. Um, so it is kind of hard where

we live to find a house that meets all of, you know, what we want. Like he wants a garage so we can have a boat one day and he wants all this stuff that is kind of hard to find. >> We got $600,000. Are you in a you're in rural eastern Kentucky, >> correct?

>> Okay. So, typically you're not looking

in a subdivision. Correct.

>> Um, that's correct. There are a couple of subdivisions here, but homes there are anywhere from 600,000 to over a

million dollars depending on what you get. >> Okay. So, what are you looking at?

>> That's another thing is it's been hard for us to agree. You know, when we started out, we said maybe max of 600 and then he's like, "Well, I don't think I want to spend that much a couple years later." And then now it's back to It's just been really a struggle to come to an agreement.

>> Okay. Meanwhile, the houses in that subdivision have gone up 300 grand.

>> Correct. Yes. >> That's stupid.

I mean, you're >> I agree. >> Yeah. We're not parking the money and we're instead the money sitting here making 3% and if it was invested in a good piece of real estate called your home, it would have gone up 10 or 15% during that period of time, >> right? Um I'm just struggling with at what point >> this has cost you $100,000 this out >> it's called cost you $100,000. Yeah. I mean I I think that you guys are going to have to sit down and go look I'm not okay. I'm not okay.

>> We we agreed that we were going to buy a house. Now, we need and we're not going to there's no such thing as a perfect house. >> And there's no such thing as a perfect husband either.

>> So, I'm going to settle on both of them.

We're going to get a house. I'm gonna get an imperfect house with my imperfect husband. Ready, set, go. Here we go.

We're going to do this. We agreed to this. This is what we're going to do. And sitting on this money is costing us.

And I'm getting increasingly pissed.

>> Right. Yes. For sure.

>> Now, this is this is what you're describing. And I think you just need to say it out loud. I don't think you've said it out loud. >> Yes. You said that you have >> I have I actually yeah like there's been some things um just a few months ago we

things came to a head and I was like I think we just need some time apart. Um

so he did leave for a few days um and

kind of had a change of heart and came back and we looked at some homes but it's just like dragging the feet it seems like.

>> Yeah. So,

your marriage counselor that you need to be seeing should be walking you guys through the idea that he is not respecting your opinion >> and you, >> okay?

>> Okay. Because uh >> that's kind of how I feel. I feel >> it doesn't mean he has to go along with you, >> but when he agrees to something and then slow walks it, >> that means he's patting you on the little head.

Right. And sweet little girl.

>> I haven't been like, you know, when when we agreed to purchase a home five years ago, like I just feel at this point like I've lost trust >> also, if that makes sense, >> with his word because he said he was going to do one thing and he won't follow through with what you guys agreed with. >> Yeah. So, you're losing you're losing respect and he's los he's not respecting

your thing. So, this is a this is a marriage breakdown. It's gone really deep here. This is sad. I mean, when I started the call, it was just like, "We need to buy a house." And now it's like, "This is tearing our marriage apart."

>> Basically, yes. >> Oh, wow. All right.

So, um I'm not sure

he has gotten the memo yet.

>> Okay. >> Um that that how serious this is. I mean, I understand he left and came back and >> it's not about the house anymore. This is no longer about the conversation.

now this is now about us agreeing on something. We both have a vote and then executing on what we agree on >> and and the statement and which I think is is big in a marriage that I I'm starting to not to trust you. Like that's a big like that the one person in life that you should trust is the spouse. Like that's the that is the you know that's the person.

>> I have. Yeah. >> Okay. And how does he respond?

Um, I mean, it's hard for me because he's very he's a person who can't make a decision. He overanalyzes everything.

So, he he acts like he he understands

why I would feel that way. >> Sure. >> That he just can't seem to move past

past the point of actually putting it into action. Yeah. I guess if I'm explaining that correctly. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. If I'm his if I were sitting there in the office with the marriage counselor and you two were sitting there, I would challenge him that he now has grown to love the $600,000 cash more

than a house and more than his wife's wishes.

>> Okay. >> And that's that's a that's a dangerous place. It's what you've described. >> Yeah, it's a great it's a great way of saying it. >> It's what you've described and I think you guys have got to work through that.

Um, this guy sounds like he is

emotionally uh stunted and so um you guys have got some work to

do and then the house purchase will be a result of you having found some healing and trust and respect and those other words in your marriage again back in your relationship >> and the house purchase. So I think the house purchase is not happening is revealing other things that are going on. It's not the It's the symptom

>> and it's a deep scarcity mindset on his end, too. I mean, he just he didn't want to let go of anything. There's a level of like that. >> Well, if he's said he's a detail guy, he's got paralysis of the analysis.

>> He's sitting around thinking >> and he wants to just keep it all runs over in his head. That's too much. This is I mean, it's >> 27 27,000 variables at one time instead of just going and doing something.

>> Ready? Aim. Aim. Aim. Aim. Aim.

>> There's some control. He has fire. Yeah.

Oh, dear God. >> Come on. Jeez.

[Music]

[Music]

Today's question of the day on the Ramsey Show is brought to you by Why Refi? If you've been turned down for refinancing your defaulted private student loans, you're not alone and you're not out of luck. Yi exists to give people like you another shot. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter y reffy.com/ramsey.

Not in all states.

>> Today's question comes from hunter in Texas. My wife is a CPA and smarter than me, better looking than me, and better at everything except for choosing a spouse. Good line.

>> She uses every dollar to make sure we don't overspend, but treats it like a general guideline, not something to actually stick to. I always thought the budget was like a script for a play where you write the numbers and once the play starts, you don't go off script.

Who is right?

Uh I mean I yield to you Hunter in it that when you set the budget, it is what it is.

Now I do know after doing budgeting for 10 plus years 15 years of marriage uh

there's going to be a lot of circumstances for us it's almost monthly now where things come up that you don't

realize and so you have to add an extra line item you got to shift some numbers around. So there is kind of this ever moving part of the budget which is going to be real like that that's going to happen. Um, so it's less of a guideline, but when you when you plan it, you stick to it and when something comes up, you may have to kind of shift and figure out how to make it work, but it's still going to work within the numbers.

doctor visit. I literally paid today from two weeks ago and I didn't know that was going to happen, right? And so you got to like put that in the average budget and then I'm shifting other things. So, so things are going to come up that you don't expect. And so there is going to be a level of having to be somewhat flexible, but for the most part, I'd say 90% of it is planned out

that you 100% should know from start to finish of the month. >> Yeah. You need to agree on where every dollar is going to go to and stick to it. And if you're going to make a change, and you will, as Rachel said, make some changes, but in the middle of the month, uh, the only way you make a change, two things have to occur. We both agree to the change. You don't make the change and then go, look what I did, and we both agree to the change. And if

you if you raise the amount of money in

a category or create a new category, you've already spent all your money on paper. So you also have to lower >> some other category by that same amount.

So if you if you create a line item for $134 for an unexpected doctor visit for

a sick kid and that was not in the budget, then we have to lower some other amount somewhere in the budget by $134

cuz you're not in Congress. This has to balance and and so two things occur when ch when changes are made. Number one, both agree to it before you do it. Number two, you

lower another category by the amount you raised that category.

>> That's exactly right. >> And so there's still balances.

>> And that's another part of being debtree. When we tell people to work their way out of debt, you actually have margin. So you may be putting some money away in savings and you may kind of have to take some of that lower a little bit of the savings to to pay some of this.

>> $134 less going into savings.

>> Right. That's right. That but that's like all of this works in unison, right?

like you're moving forward with your money throughout the baby steps to help even with some of these things which is great. >> Yeah. But a general guideline means she's doing whatever she wants to do and reporting to you later and that's not okay. >> Yeah. I would be stricter on it.

>> That's not that's not No, you're more right than she is.

>> And one thing you guys could do is sign up for one of our every dollar trainings. We have free trainings um weekly now in the Ramsey personalities.

do it because every dollar within the budgeting app, it's going to help you not only with the budget, but we have a digital coach component which is actually going to show you and help you work the baby steps to know, okay, what are things within my financial world that I can shift and change to be more proactive. And so all of that is in these every dollar trainings. So if you guys want to check it out, you can sign up for free. Yep.

>> At ramiesolutions.com/webinar, we do a Q&A. We walk through a lot of these kind of questions like what you just had, Hunter. So yeah, make sure to check that out. Rob's in Indiana.

>> Hey, thanks for having me on. I have a very quick math nerd question for you guys. Dave is your man. Our house >> Dave is ready for it.

>> Wonderful. Um, we owe $125,000 left on

our house. And um, our monthly payment

for our mortgage is $1,500 a month. Our

take-home pay is about $8,500.

Um, we have a three-year-old son and we're only going to be able to have one baby because of COVID related stuff. Um, and I already have about 25 to $30,000

saved for my son's college already. Um,

we had been putting $417 a month into a 529 for him and I was

thinking about stopping putting any money in his college basically to get our just have another

four five $417 a month to put towards our mortgage to try to get it paid off in the next three years. And with your guys online mortgage payoff calculator, if I pay around $4,000 a month, I can actually get our budget completely paid off or our mortgage completely paid off.

Yeah, but you're talking about 1,500 plus 400. It would be 1,900, not 4,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I've I've went through my budget and I've already found um another $1,500 that I could put towards it every month. >> Okay. >> Um >> and your wife's on board with all that.

>> Wondering. >> Yes, I think she's on board with all. >> You've got room to breathe. You're not doing rice and beans. That's not what we're trying to do. >> Oh, no. Absolutely not. We're we're doing just fine. >> Okay. All right. Um, yeah, you can circle back to the 529 later if you need to after the four years cuz how old is your baby?

>> Three. >> Yeah. So, I mean, 3 years from now, the house is paid for. Four years from now, the house is paid for. There's seven. If you need if you look up and go 25 is not going to be enough or what the 25 is going to grow to is not going to be enough. Then I can add add some money and catch back up. You won't have any trouble because you won't have a house payment anymore.

>> Yeah, exactly. I figured if I put the money we put towards our mortgage back in for one year, that's $18,000, which would be >> more than I was going to miss out on before. >> Exactly. And way more and and it will

continue to grow anyway. It might be enough in there already depending on the college choice and what how what you're planning to fund and all that kind of thing. So, if it's invested in good mutual funds, um it's 2550, 100, uh it's

probably 200 grand when they get there if you don't if you don't add anything.

So, you know, you need to sit with your uh with your Smart Investor Pro and calculate out what the 25 is going to grow to. And that'll tell you if you need to add anything at all and you can certainly do that after four and a half years after the house is cleared. So, I'm with you. Good plan. Rock and roll.

Math nerd approved. Boom. There we go.

>> He said I had a math nerd question. I was like, perfect. Dave loves a >> I love a good math riddle. >> Good math riddle.

>> I was that nerd kid for sure. All right.

Mike's in Nebraska. Hey, Mike.

>> Hey. How's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Great. Um uh so I have a situation where

um my parents, you know, growing up I I knew my parents weren't weren't the best with their finances. Um, it's something that I initially struggled with, but then feel like I'd done a me and my wife have done a good job. But, um, come to find out after my dad's passing a couple

years ago, uh, just how bad they were with money. Um, and they had essentially racked up $200,000 worth of debt living off of a line of credit. Um, now it's

just my mom on her acreage. Um, and I

have over the cla past two years been

working to uh I started an LLC to uh do

a storage business on her property in order to try and monetize her property a bit and get her more income

uh to cover the mortgage that we had to um get for her.

>> Um we had to get for her uh >> that that I helped her get for herself.

>> Okay. You're not on the mortgage.

Uh, we did cosign on it because of my

mom's my my mom's 74. So, we put um

because of our our house was paid off.

Um, I co-signed for it.

>> Okay. How can I help?

>> Um, my question is, um, they don't she

doesn't have a lot of retirement. Um, little to none. She gets like essentially like $5,000 um annuity a year that usually goes towards >> uh her some of the medicine that she has for the year. Um >> she has social security coming in.

>> She has social security. Yes. How much is that? What she lives?

>> Um she gets about just a little over 2,000. >> All right. Tell you what, hang on through the break. We'll come back talk to you. I don't have enough information to spit an answer at you. So hang on.

[Music]

All right, we're talking with Mike in Nebraska. Mike's mom is 74. She's got 3,000 coming in for social security, 5,000 a year from an annuity to help with her medical bills. She and her husband, Mike's dad, ran up a bunch of debt. We're not very good with money.

Mike jumped in, took out a mortgage, and put a storage building on their lot and

he co-signed the mortgage. And that's how far we'd gotten in the discussion.

Does that all sound accurate, Mike?

>> Uh, yes. >> Okay. Um, now, so how much is the mortgage now?

>> Um, it's the mortgage right now is 1,300

a month. >> No, I mean the balance, I'm sorry.

>> Oh, sorry. The balance, um, we started at 203 and it's at 185 right now.

>> Okay. And the property and with the

storage building, everything added to it. The current value of the whole thing is what?

uh roughly be probably guesstimate between 800 to 900.

>> Okay. All right. So, there's around 700K in equity right now.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And this and she's lived on this property for how long?

>> Um since I was little. Uh we've had it's been in our this uh land's been in our

family since my dad grew up on the land.

>> Okay. So, you're the third generation.

Mhm. >> Okay. All right. So, your grand your your grandparents were there.

>> Mhm. >> And you have memory of all that, too.

How many how much acreage is there?

>> Um, it's roughly about nine just under

nine acres. Um, but >> how how rural is the area?

>> Um, it's it's not it's right next to a a

highway that connects to decent sized town. So, it's it's uh not very >> I mean cuz 9 acres at 100 grand an acre doesn't sound like farmland.

>> Um it's it has two houses on it. Um

>> how many storage units how many storage units you put on it?

>> Uh right now we're like we have two sheds but that do like basically and we're doing RV and boat storage for the storage. >> Okay. All right. And you live nearby?

>> Uh yeah, in town.

>> Okay. So you're trying to help her run boat storage s storage get enough cash flow to pay this mortgage.

>> Yeah. So the mo like so far we've been able to between renting the sheds and uh

the storage been able to cover the mortgage for the year as well as like a little bit more. She gets um $1,000 rent

from the other house that's on the property. >> So is she living on is she living less than she makes now with your help?

Sorry, say that again. >> I said, is she able to live on the money that these things are providing her with social security?

>> She's I have her living off of um just

social security. She did get like my my dad was the type that he didn't uh he wanted my mom to um be at home and so

>> um she never she hasn't worked for a long time after her initial career. And then um but she does a part-time job now and all the money from that job goes towards principal on the loan.

>> Okay. All right. So, she's on board on all this. Sounds like she >> much like she she she realizes her

situation. >> She got her head in the game. She's not going to get to keep this property if she doesn't get her act together. And she's getting her act together. That's good. >> Yeah. The property is what I feel like is the saving grace for her. Um and what

the only thing that we have like that keeps us from being >> okay. So how's her health >> financially made?

>> Um she's she's her health is good not

great. Um >> are you the sole heir? >> She's um I have a brother as well.

>> Okay. So what happens when she passes?

>> Um the the the land is split between my

brother and myself.

What are you going to do then >> in terms of >> um my hope was to build up a storage the

storage business on there in order to offset any cost for her future uh home care. Um >> I'm talking about your brother. How are you going to split the land with your brother when she's gone?

>> Um the land can the land's large enough that we actually got an approval to um property linewise split the property in half if we wanted to. You can't. There's a mortgage on it.

>> Um, that's Well, one of the questions I had like questions for calling that I had for that was um I have

I have uh stock from my company and it's

sort of just been plateauing for a while. Um, and I was wondering if it would be wiser to take that money and roll it into her loan to pay it off and then have the property storage sort of

pay back. >> How are you protected from your brother ending up with that money?

>> Uh, my mom has basically said that anything that I put into the land, she would modify her will to make sure that I'm like the any money I put into the land is protected as like first out.

So, if we had ultimately decided to sell the land, um, >> yeah, you you would need to take a lean.

You would need to take a lean on the land for the 185.

>> How much is the value of your stock?

>> Um, right now it's um 120, but like as

it rolls off, like it'll be 200 and then if the stock goes up, whatever growth from that.

>> As it rolls off, what do you mean? Uh

like uh every every quarter or so I get

more released to me.

>> Oh, so it's restricted. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. So you just got to All right. Um >> stay with the company. >> Yeah. Is your brother have you got having good communications with him on all this so you don't get burned?

>> Um I mean we're we're on the same page.

Um, we're I I think I'm more on the on

the hook financially. Yeah. He is right now. >> You're the only one on the hook, >> obviously. But, um, but yeah, he's he's

supportive and helps with the property and the management of things and helps with my mom. So, like he's he's on board with everything. >> All right. Yes, I would pay off the mortgage with your stock. >> Yes. Because the mortgage is in your name. You have stock to pay off a mortgage that's in your name? Yes, I would. But you need to take a lean against the property. Take a mortgage against the property uh at uh no interest and uh to be paid when um you

know to be taken as a as a

>> that guarantees that her will functions

because now you have a lean on the property and your brother cannot get anything out of the property until that mortgage is paid. Okay? and you got the

ability to to split the property easily because you're the mortgage holder then.

>> But you're not going to split a property with a commercial mortgage holder unless you refinance, >> right? Um, and if I I guess my the thing

that I've batt I've gone back and forth with was between the money going from my stock into the property versus um going

into like retirement accounts and things for myself cuz I don't >> Well, this is your retirement because you're betting the farm. Listen, you went borrowed $185,000 >> or you went and borrowed 200,000 now it's down to 185.

>> You act like your mother did this. You did this. It's you're you're liable. You

have a mortgage. So, no, you don't put money in retirement while you have a mortgage on a side piece of farmland.

>> No, absolutely not. So, you you left the

you left the position of separation a long time ago. This is no longer separated. This is not your mom's deal.

Tangled. Yeah. >> This is your deal cuz you signed up for it and you're heavily invested with time and effort and everything else. I like where it's taking you guys overall cuz your mom has taken responsibility. She's reigned herself in. She's, you know,

taken a job. She's I'm living on a budget. Your brother's involved.

>> 200,000 take a lean on the property for that. >> Yeah. Yeah. What whatever he pays off.

If he takes 185, pays off the mortgage, he puts a lean against it for 185, that means 185 comes to him before he splits with his brother after she's gone.

>> Yeah. Yeah. What about her $200,000 line of credit? >> That's it. They refinanced took it out >> for the is they already took it out.

They refinanced it. So that that's the thing. So we're getting rid of that and yeah, no debt now. The only debt is you

>> and you're not collecting on it until she's gone. And um so that money is not

working very hard for you, but it you know, you're dealing with third generation land. You guys are planning to keep it. You're not going to liquidate it. So there's no there's no out for you other than pay off the debt.

So that's the you stepped into it and you got it on your shoe. That's the way it works.

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the day, Philippians 4:12. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well-fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. Maya Angelo said,

"Forgive yourself for not knowing what you didn't know before you loaned it."

>> Oh, that's good. >> That's good. I like it. All right. Don's in Grand Rapids. Hey, Don. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. I see on my screen that you are a baby step millionaire. Congratulations.

Thank you. I appreciate that. >> Well done. So, what's your net worth?

>> It is $1,773,412.

>> Way to go, man. Way to go. Give me a little breakdown on that by category.

What's it invested in?

>> Sure. That's uh 652,000 in 401k,

161,000 in a Roth IRA,

um 35,000 and a 529. Uh our mortgage or

house is paid for. Home value of 446,000.

We have a cabin that's also paid for,

valued at 385,000.

Then we have 91,000 cash.

>> All right. How old are you?

>> Um 38. My wife and I are 38 and we became millionaires when we were 35.

>> Way to go. You did early. Congratulations. How much of this did you inherit?

>> We inherit about 90,000 from my wife's grandma when she passed away. >> How long ago was that?

>> Um 2018.

>> Were you already millionaires by then?

>> Uh 2022 is when we when we became millionaires. >> Okay. So you shot up, man. Way to go.

Okay. So mathematically though, you did not become a millionaire because of inheritance. >> No. >> No. This is all you saving and dipping.

And what what's been your range of income since you started working? Best year, worst year?

>> Um worst year 45,000. Household. Um the

max is going to be this year. We're expecting it to be around 315,000.

>> What you do for a living? >> And >> so I work in supply chain analytics in the food manufacturing industry. Um, my wife is a manager for the state of Michigan. Um, we've both had incremental progress throughout our careers.

>> Okay. >> Great. >> Cool. Cool. So, you got a degree in supply chain logistics.

>> Um, my degree is actually in general management and I have an MBA in marketing. Okay. >> And my wife has a degree in environmental science and biology and she also has a MBA, but that's in consulting. >> Okay. >> So, how do you uh attribute Okay. the

high of a 315, but that's just recently.

So, most of this time you've been making probably between 100 and 200. And you get to you get to a net worth millionaire status at 35 years old.

>> Somebody's 22 is listening to us right now. Tell them how you did that.

>> So, we graduated college in 2011, living

on on nearly nothing. And once we got

into our careers, we just pretended like we had no money and just put all of our income towards getting our our debt paid off. So I graduated with $60,000 in debt and

student loans. We got that paid off in two years. Um and we just really focused

on putting our whole household behind getting out of debt. That's what we did.

Um we bought our first house in May 2015. We paid that off in four years and

then you we paid off we we bought our cabin in um 2023.

We paid it off in one year. So I think really the big secret for us was extremely focused on getting out of debt, putting our entire household behind it. >> Well, and you've been systematically dumping money in this 401k and Roth like crazy, too, because you got about 900 in that.

Yeah, we've been uh fortunate enough that we've been able to contribute to

our retirements, but also have a high enough income that we've made, you know, got our debt paid off, too. So, um >> yeah, lifestyle creep is not what I would say for you guys. You guys have stayed very intentional.

>> Yeah. If if you look at us, we have a a

pretty average house with pretty average vehicles and we wear pretty average clothes. So, you know, um you know,

walking down the street, you wouldn't see us and think we're millionaires, but we are. So, it's pretty awesome.

>> Well, you weren't trying to impress anybody walking down the street. You're trying to impress the people in your house, >> you and your wife.

>> That's all that's all we care about, impressing. And so, that sets it up.

Wow. Very cool, man. So, uh, you think

in today's world, the current economy

sitting right where we are, that if you came out of school, you could do this again in the same period of time or faster.

>> I mean, um, if I graduated right now, we had to do it all over again. We could probably do it as fast. We're just, um, that's just the kind of people we are.

We, uh, you know, we both legitimately

get angry at the debt that we had um, when we first started paying off our mortgage. We um we don't even know what the minimum payment was because we would we would pay four or five times that every month. So, and then every time we paid

it down, uh we would get kind of excited by it. So, we were spending thousands of dollars towards our mortgage and it was

awesome because our our cost of living was so low that we could do it and it wouldn't hurt us. So, but now we're we're set up for life and hopefully continues this way. >> So, great. What are you guys doing now for fun? Now that there's >> you guys make a great income. You're doing everything. You have no mortgages on both prop on either property.

>> What does life look like now?

>> Uh well, we've got two kids. We have a a seven-year-old and four-year-old. They keep us busy. Um we really enjoy going to our cabin. It's a it's a good way to uh to unwind and relax. Um we spend a

lot of time with our families. We just took our kids to a a surprise vacation

um over in Wisconsin.

Um, and you know, I think we're planning on possibly going on a cruise next year.

>> So fun. That's great.

>> Being in a position to where we could do those things without really needing to worry about >> impacting our our personal lives is is very uh enjoyable and freeing.

>> Yeah. Wow. Very cool. Good for you guys.

Well done. Well, we're getting ready to announce another Ramsey cruise, so be listening. Great.

>> Join us on that one.

We'd love to have you. Way to go, guys.

I'm so proud of you. >> In your 30s. That's incredible.

>> What What do you drive?

>> Um, my wife drives a 2014 Chevy Sonic.

>> Mhm. >> U, we bought that in 2014 and we we bought it new, but it was a pretty inexpensive car, but we we paid that off about three months after we bought it.

>> And then I drive a um a 2020 Ford F-150

that we paid cash for. Mhm.

>> Mhm. Okay. Yeah. You need to upgrade

your wife's car.

>> That car sucks.

>> Yeah, I know. We've uh >> You have $2 million.

>> She's laughing at you right now. She can hear you. >> Yeah, your wife's car sucks. You need to go get her a car, dude.

>> I I will cry. She likes her car, though.

>> I don't.

>> Hey, Don. I'm proud of you guys. Way to go, y'all. We're so proud of you. Way to go. Baby steps millionaires at 35 years old. We're talking to him here. He's 38.

They are 38. They together that you did

hear that very clearly. We talk up to couples about the correlation between the ability to build wealth and working together. >> And the speed at which you do it. You're both in. >> Change up. Yeah, you're going. We both were mad at debt.

>> We both agreed to put thousands of dollars on our mortgage. >> We both were excited when we seen the numbers go down. It's like they Yeah.

Hey, >> that you heard the unity >> all the way through that. So, when we're trying to get you couples to combine your finances, we're trying to get you couples to be in agreement on where you're going and how you're going to get there. >> This is where it takes you. You're 38 years old with a million7 and I'm griping you out to buy your wife a better car. That's where it gets you.

>> Yep. >> Okay. Cuz you guys understand when they're 44, if they do nothing else, this is 3 million4.

when they are 51 if they do nothing else. This is $7 million.

This is where this is going. You want me to do it again? $14 million. You want me to do it again? >> $28 million in their 60s.

That's where these numbers are going. That's how this works. And so when you once you get this thing going in the right direction and you quit supporting life insurance companies and banks and car companies and instead start supporting your own stinking family, you become this guy. This guy's a this

couple's a rockstar, man.

>> Power couple >> and the values. >> Don't tell me you can't do it. Don't tell me the American dream is dead. I talk to people like Don every week. I just think you've been listening to your communist college professor too much.

This free enterprise system stuff works, boys and girls. Go do what Don did. That

puts us Hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 34. Discipline Today Can Rewrite Your Financial Future | February 17, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwind's Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Rachel Cruz, taking calls about your life and your money uh for the next couple hours. So if you want to, you can get involved by calling8 8255225. In the meantime, we'll

go to the phone lines where we have Lisa who's in Cincinnati, Ohio. Hey Lisa.

Hi. Thank you all so much for taking my question. Um so we have been served

papers on an old debt that um we now are

having to um either go to court and um

fight it or settle. And so we don't have the money for a lawyer. So we've been using chat um AI to kind of guide us

through and so far it's worked like you know we've we've been able to

um prolong it a little bit. So but now

you know I need guidance. I need real guidance on on what to do and where to go. >> How long ago was this?

>> Um

why are you It's okay.

>> Take a deep breath. >> I'm so sorry. >> That's okay. >> Sorry. Um I'm sorry. I'm just nervous and then it's just very emotional.

>> Yeah. >> Stressful. Stress.

>> Stress.

Okay.

>> So, um the debts from 2017 or we took

the loan out in 2017 and then >> Okay. >> Like around 2019. It's a SoFi loan. They

gave us 50 grand. It was great. We reconsolidated debt. It didn't work.

>> Um and um so around 2019, I had a baby

and then um right around the corner of

2020, all of a sudden I was home and had

to quit my job. And so it was just my husband. Um, and we um we kind we were

kind of like we miss a couple of payments and um but we would catch up and then right around the corner of 2020 like they just sold it off like it didn't matter. Um and so we've been fighting it ever since.

>> Um they served us papers December 16th.

I think hoping like we only had 20 days to respond and I think they were hoping that with the holidays we wouldn't be able to find a lawyer and we wouldn't know what to do. we just wouldn't respond. But we did. We got it together.

We put it in chat. Chat gave us some information. We sent it. They sent us back discovery. Most of it redacted. Um

and so our next like we were going to send another request for more discovery, but instead we just sent them a prosay

um if they would settle and save.

>> What company? What company owns the debt right now? Do you know the name of it?

>> L Yeah, LVN Envy.

>> And what's the LV Envy?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, Lisa, I need I need you to just um understand who you're dealing with because I do think that always helps the stress level. Okay. When bad debts, whether it's loans, credit cards

are sold, they sell them to a company.

The company the company, you know, repackages them with other loans, sells it to another company, and it's been probably passed around. Okay? So, you're dealing with someone who's sitting in a cubicle who's been on the job for probably 3 weeks >> and will probably end up leaving in two months because the turnover rate with

collectors is is is constant. It's

constant. Okay. So, it feels scary and it's a big number, right? So, we're going to have to address it. But, I do want to take some of the stress out of who it is. It's it's someone who honestly has probably the worst job on the planet who is calling and serving people old debt.

>> And again, it the intimidation factor is so big, but the reality of it's not, Lisa. So, so we have to deal with it.

So, I'm not minimizing the situation, but I do want you to just realize the person you're talking to or who even wrote the letter to serve. It's probably not even going to be there in 60 days. It's going to go on to someone else. And then the company Envy or whatever the >> LN LVN Envy, >> it's >> Okay.

Okay. There you go. Yeah. >> You know what, Lisa?

I used to back in the day when the credit card companies used to call me and debt collectors used to call me. I used to just imagine that they probably had more debt than I did, otherwise they wouldn't be working there.

Like it just it made the whole thing a lot less intimidating. Have you offered So, you have no money right now. Have you offered to do any sort of um payment

plan?

>> Um so in the past like the past couple of years um we did a payment plan for

like cuz they'll do one for like 12 months and then after that amount of time they'll hit you back up and they want the whole amount. >> Sure. So explain to us what's going on with your money now that >> over the course since 2017 and even 2020

on where we haven't been able to kind of stack together any money to make any sort of uh deal on this or keep the the

payment plans going. Tell us what's going on now.

>> Um so now we're doing better. Like our income is getting up there. Um in 2020 it just wasn't. >> What is it today? What's your income today? 204.

>> Okay. And is this the only debt that you have or do you have other debts? Okay.

Tell us really quickly about the other debts so we can understand how this fits in. >> So we have uh 58,000 of like other debt and cars.

Um >> tell me the two tell me the cars. What do they each total?

>> Um one is 11 and one is 15.

And then the other debt is um a I think

there's two loans like small loans and then credit cards. >> So, and we've been paying it down like it was much worse than that. So, there is light at the end of this tunnel. Like 58,000 sounds really really bad and it is. Um and then we have a mortgage and our mortgage is 175,000 but our house is worth like 450.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, I I just with the numbers you're telling me, I don't see a world where you're not setting up a payment plan and in the meantime stacking up a bunch of cash to cash to settle. >> I think I think a lot of your uh trauma and shame about this lives in the past cuz it sounds like today you have the ability to start getting this cleaned up. Tell unless you tell me a reason that you don't see that hope.

>> No, I do. Yeah. I just I mean do you think that we should settle?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. You just have to have the amount of money to settle and depending on how um I mean how long it's been and how long you know considering this was a you stopped really paying in 2020. It's been six years. So they're probably not expecting to really get paid. Lisa I mean at the end of the day they're probably >> they probably assume you guys are broke.

So if you >> put 50% and and settle this.

>> Yes. That's what I was going to say. if you could get maybe 15,000 and that means you guys are going to have to limit your li like you guys are going to have to be working extra. You're going to limit lifestyle.

You're going to do whatever you can and you're going to get $15,000 as soon as possible.

>> What are your cars worth? The one that's 15,000. If you were to sell it, what could you get for it?

Um, maybe 20 or 22.

>> You know what I'd do? I'd sell one of these cars and be done with this today.

Hypothetically, I'd sell one of these cars if you can get 20 for it and you only owe 15.

>> Um, >> go get a $5,000 car to settle.

>> Uh-huh. Um, is it paid off or I'm sorry.

Yeah, I would do that. I would clear that out, get more money per month, then I can add that up and then I can settle this debt very quickly. That's what I would do. It's going to be a major sacrifice. But the way you cried when you came on the line, this has been going on for long enough. Like far far

too long. And I would be going to great extents to make this better in the next I'd give myself 30 days to make this happen. And if that means selling cars and driving junkers, then that's what I'm going to do.

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All right, let's go back to the phone lines where we have Marie who's in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Marie.

>> Hello.

>> What's up? >> Hi. I have a little bit of an issue that

I need a solution to.

>> Okay. >> Um, I was scammed about 10 years ago.

Lost all my money, my house, my car, my jewelry. >> Holy smokes. >> Oh my gosh. Marie. >> Yeah. It was it was it was considerable.

And that's why I'm still working at 71.

But >> uh when I came clean to my daughter, we decided on a plan. And uh we opened a

joint checking account and she has taken all my money, my pay, my social security

every month and gives me an allowance for food, gas, medication, etc. When the

rent is due, she transfers that money, any kind of car repairs, insurance, she does an extra transfer.

Uh we had managed to save almost $200,000 during that time, which is remarkable. >> Oh my gosh. How much of that's yours and how much is hers?

>> It's all mine, but it's all in her name.

I don't have access to it. She doesn't send it. >> She sends me screenshot. It's all still there. >> Good for you, Marie. Well done.

>> But I I want this arrangement to stop.

I've asked for several times and she's just not inclined to do so. She still

hasn't addressed me. Understandable.

But uh uh you know I would like to have

>> uh my money available to me when I want

it. >> Okay. >> And I don't know one time I I contacted

an agency for elder abuse in the in in my area and they told me to take her name off the account. Well, I didn't do that. I opened another account and had my money go there. She found out. She came. She was not very happy.

>> Make me close the account and transfer it back to the joint account.

>> What is her when that happens? What is she telling you? Is cuz there is a reason that this arrangement was made.

What is it that she's afraid that you're going to do?

>> She's afraid that I'm going to get, you know, pulled back into that that scenario and she does not want me to be

penniless again. And I can understand it. the scenario where you were scammed.

>> Yes. >> Are there things, Marie, that you want to do with your money right now that she's saying no to?

>> Well, I'm my my rent my lease had ended

last March and I wanted to buy a condo

or a townhouse and she wasn't on board with that. She said the only way that would happen if the if the property was

going to be put in her name, which I didn't have a problem with that, but it ended up I had to move to another place and I have a lease now with an apartment.

So, >> okay. >> Am I out of line to ask to be able to

use my money or should I just suck it up

and continue with our arrangement?

>> You're not out of line to ask to use your money. I there's another side to this that I I want to know more about.

Is she keeping you from

and here I'm just going based on what you said. It sounds like something was so drastic that she was brought in to help you. >> And she's probably looking at this and I'm not saying that she's right. I'm just trying to get both sides. She might be looking at this going, you know, the best predictor of the future is the past unless something has changed, right? So, she might be looking at this going, I don't see why I would expect anything different if I let her have access to

this money again. So, you might have to explain to her, here's why this is different. Here's why this is not like it was before. Because you said she's afraid I'll fall back into my own old ways. That got me scammed again. So, if you know that, my thought would be I need to help her understand why this is not like that anymore. Um, and if you

feel like if you genuinely feel like

maybe you've changed or it's different, then have that conversation. And then if not, then I'd be talking with um

I might have to bring a lawyer into it and say, "Hey, this person is not

>> there's such a fine line, Marie, of loving, you know, someone in your family by helping them financially like this and then controlling them." And so I I don't know from her sake if she was on the other line and we talked to her after you know what I mean the story she would give us because my hope would be that it's out of love and care for

you Marie that she says did you were you good were you good with money besides the scam that happened 10 years ago when you when you were raising her how was money >> I u I was born and raised in Germany my

husband was from Missouri he's passed

and uh uh we've always left frugally and

>> Okay. So, really, was it just this one scam that caused all of this?

>> Yeah, but it was it was massive. It was like $600,000. How did it happen?

>> Well, I met this guy on Facebook. He pretended to be someone he was not. And

uh it took almost 3 years. And

>> that it happens more than

>> Yeah, it's very it's very rampant and it's very sad. >> Yeah. I'm so sorry. And I know she did that to help me, to protect me. And >> and that was 10 years ago, Marie.

2016ish.

>> Yes, it happened. It started in 2015.

>> So, what I would do to probably keep the relationship good with your with your daughter. And again, I'm I'm going to assume good in this call that she is doing this out of love and protection for you. >> Is I would sit down with her and I would have a road map to say, "Hey, >> this is what I desire. At the end of this road, I want full access to my money.

I want to be able to purchase a condo because rent keeps going up and up and up and I want to be able to have a place to live that's modest but that I own and whatever that looks like for you, Marie, what the end of it looks like. And then and then I would bring her in and just say, "Hey, >> what steps need to be taken for you to rebuild trust?" because it sounds like you guys have just been functioning in this and she may have she may have decided already. I'm just going to do this till my till forever for the rest of my mom's life.

>> I made that assumption.

>> Um and to and some milestones have a couple of milestones and in the next 12 months what are things that you can be doing um that would give her the confidence because that feels reasonable to me. And again, I'm assuming, Marie, this isn't I'm saying all this putting you in a good light that you're being responsible that you're not off to the side. You know what I mean? Uh, so >> I don't I don't even have access to online banking. She she sends me

screenshots and I I keep a little book here at home. >> Yeah. So, there's a point after 10 years if there's not if there hasn't been other mistakes or other patterns, >> you should be forward.

>> Yes. and for her sake too that she's that she doesn't have to babysit you or you know rolls reverse that she's your mom right for a season I think that's really good but over time >> you probably do want this deal to to dissolve but I would again try to do it with her and like what's the road map >> to get there and >> and then I hate to say but if she's but if she's unwilling to do any of that I would be curious then her motivation at the end >> that's my question and I'd want to make sure that everything's above board.

Yes, on both sides. >> People say not trust me.

That's what I would ask the question. How do we build the trust and how do you do it in a way that can still preserve the relationship? Because if it really is there's like I said, there's probably more to the story on her end, more to the story on your end, Marie. But there probably is um reason for both of you to

feel the way that you feel. Yes. >> And so I like your idea of making that road map because I think in the end that's going to be and if If the 8 months or 12 months happens, then you got to start pushing >> pushing more. >> And maybe there's a transition even for the adult daughter >> to say, "Hey, the next step would be that she does have access to her money, but your name's still on the account for 6 months, so she can actually log in to her own account, right?" Like, that's >> fair.

>> That's very fair.

Marie's side? um versus just having this hard black and white wall of like >> either you do it or I do it. >> Yeah. Yeah.

It could be a both end for a season too, you know. Yeah. >> Um but yeah, that's that's hard. And I and I feel like Marie too, to your daughter's credit, like we get the calls.

We get your daughter calling in and saying, "My mom has been scammed out of 600,000." >> Yes. >> What do I do? How do I step in? Cuz she feels gullible.

She feels really vulnerable. I feel like she could fall into one of these again. And we probably would give her that advice. Sit down with your mom and say, "Mom, I want to be able to help you.

Let me You know what I So, >> and probably what the daughter is thinking is, "Oh my gosh, if something like this happens again, I'll have to take care of you and I don't have the money to do that." So, all of this is really being done out of just of a abundance of caution for the future is what it sounds like. >> Yes, that's what I would hope. >> Kind of assume the best here. Assume everything's on the up and up.

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All right, we have Sydney who's in Omaha, Nebraska. Hey, Sydney, you're on the line.

>> Hey guys. Uh, so my question today, and I know you've taken this call a million times, but um, how do I

persuade, that's not really the right word, but how do I, uh, inform my husband that we no longer need the whole life insurance policy that his parents took out for him as a child?

>> Ah, okay. Um, you don't need it because

you think you should do term life or you don't need it because you guys are self-insured just from where you are financially?

We uh each have term life policies on

one another. >> Oh, okay.

So, we're good to go.

>> What's his reason for keeping the whole life?

>> So, we actually talked about that recently. Um it just gives him like a piece of mind. He will be 32 in April

and the death benefit on this thing is like 17,000.

Um >> is he paying anything into it?

No, it's just like growing or just

sitting. I don't really know. >> And it's been growing since he was a kid and there's only $17,000 in it.

>> Yes. >> If it's not costing you anything, what does it matter if it's just sitting there growing?

>> Yeah. You know, that's a fabulous question. Uh one that I have asked myself. Um I do know when he was a kid

his dad is in pharmaceuticals and there was a handful of times where um he would be out of work and things and they were on Medicaid and so I think it's just like >> that extra layer of security whereas I'm

like >> we could take the cash value which isn't a ton. It's like three or $4,000 >> and >> use that >> for what?

Um, well, so I mean ultimately paying off debt. It's I'm trying to win the war here rather than the battle.

>> But you do have debt to pay off.

>> We do. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. That's that's more what I was getting at. Is it just like a why do we need this? We don't need to get rid of it. Or could you really use the cash?

Um, >> well, here's what's frustrating, Sydney.

This is how bad of an investment whole life is. Okay, so let's just pretend that they opened it up when he was a baby. He's 32 now. Okay, 32 years it's

grown to $17,000. If you put $17,000

into the market right now, in 30 years

instead of it just becoming another 70,000 you would have $1.1 million.

So that's how crappy of an invest like it's not even an investment. Like it's not it's horrible horrible. So my

motivation would be like, let's actually put our money in something that's working that will actually work for us and not grow at a snail's pace. And if something really were to happen to him, they're going to keep a lot of it. You know what I mean? You don't even get the full death benefit always. So it is Oh,

it's such a bad it's such a bad product.

Um, so from just the common sense perspective, I'd be like, wouldn't you want to move 17,000 over to a a

legitimate investment? Like absolutely.

you know, not that you can cuz you're going to have to surrender the policy so you won't get that. Um, but for me, I'm like, I just want to have things in my life financially that make sense. Like, this make this doesn't even make sense.

Um, so not only could you use the cash to start paying off debt, but also let's be smart with where we're putting our money and keeping quote unquote $17,000 in a whole life policy that's not growing basically >> is not wise. >> Well, what's the what's the debt you're trying to pay off?

>> Yeah. So, um, a little bit of everything. So, uh, like I said, I'm trying to win the war rather than the battle. So, my husband, he would sleep better at night if we had a month's worth of expenses saved at all times.

>> Is it cuz your your regular income?

>> No, no, it's just like what if the furnace goes out kind of a thing. Um,

and so this getting rid of this whole life policy would allow us to basically sh up the savings account and then immediately go towards paying extra towards um our debt. >> How much do y'all have in savings right now?

>> Uh, in savings we've got 4,400.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, go ahead. >> Well, I was going to ask what's a month's worth of expenses?

>> Six. >> Six. >> Okay. So you in your mind you're thinking, okay, if I cause him to get rid of this policy, which he doesn't which he doesn't want to get rid of, but if I take that money and give him what what he wants, which is a month's worth of expenses, that's better than nothing at all. That's you winning the war.

>> Okay. Um >> Well, winning the war would be him getting on track with the baby.

>> Right. Right. Right. And debtree I I understand. I understand. Okay. Okay.

And then after you did that and after that he's like now we can go buck wild and pay off this debt. Is that what he's agreed to?

>> More or less. Yeah. >> What's the less?

>> Um it would just like we're not obviously following the baby steps to a tea. Um you know that would be only having $1,000 in our savings. But is there another is there another part that he's already said I'm not going to do that or was that really cuz if you're telling me this is the only thing he asked of me Jade he just this will make him feel better and then everything else we're off to the races I probably wouldn't argue much. I'd be like hey do it and then maybe over time >> whole life policy makes you feel good but we're going to we're going to start moving.

>> Yeah. But and if you told me that I'd be like great if but if you tell me hey actually it's probably going to be this was just one of many battles and I'm just trying to get over this hump then I'd say we have more conversations to have. I love that you're trying to make progress. I'd probably go ahead and do I'd probably make that deal.

Um Yeah. >> How how much debt do you guys have, Sydney, to pay off?

>> Uh about 180. Um the bulk of that my

husband uh went to law school, so we've got about 110 there. Uh we've got about

15 on a car and then uh just shy of 14

on private loans that he took to take the bar. Um and then my student loans

are 37. >> Okay. Well, how long ago, Sydney, did you start listening to the show and wanting to work a new financial plan, The Baby Steps? Yeah, probably uh last

May I had heard of Dave in the personal finance class I took in high school and then a good friend of mine her and her husband followed the baby steps uh which

is mindboggling cuz they are uh Catholic missionaries and I'm like how how did

you you know do all of this and essentially they just >> it was the baby steps that helped it. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um okay. How old are you guys?

I am, how old am I? I am uh I'll be 30

this year and my husband will be 32. So, >> Okay, great. Can Can I ask another quick question? I'm just trying to get a sense of him. If you said to him tomorrow, "Hey, uh let's pretend you did the thing with the whole life policy and put the month aside." And then you said to him, "Hey, I've really been looking at our car. I think that cuz I I looked and found that if we sell it, we can make $5,000 and not have the payment anymore.

And then we can take that $5,000 and buy a junker car." Right? another aspect of the baby steps. If you told him that, what would he say?

>> So, we've had that uh conversation before and he's like, "Absolutely not." Okay. >> Um, >> so, Sydney, I hate to say it. I And we have we don't have a lot of time, so I just feel like I got to like get it say it to you. I I think you guys have way of a bigger issue happening of being on the same page financially than a whole life insurance policy.

>> And I wish that was just it, but as we start peeling back on this, you guys aren't on the same page. And it's it's I

don't want to say it's impossible. It's just >> it'll take a long time. >> Really hard for you to be the one, Sydney, that pulls him through this process and that to make progress. And

so you guys need to sit down tonight and you need to tell him, Sydney, how you're feeling and what's going on inside of you because it's not just a whole life policy. That that would feel good if we if he just cashed that out. That that's great. >> You're you have $180,000 in debt. Like that's terrifying. Is that scary?

Oh, yeah. >> Yes. Okay. So, talk about that, Sydney.

Talk about what you're feeling. The the

sleep that you're not able to get because you're stressed. You're scared if something happens to you. Do you guys have kids?

>> We do. We have uh she's almost two.

>> Okay. Yes. And and so I'm like the the

weight of this whole issue of just your entire financial picture is weighing on you and you're trying which I applaud you to make a little progress here and there but it's not going to do much Sydney. It really won't unless you guys sit down together and say hey we are in a marriage and we've committed our lives to be a team together and we're going to tackle every every area of life together. in-law issues, parenting issues, and our money issues. And we're gonna be a team.

The money is the problem. The debt out there is the problem. You're not the problem. Looking at him and and Sydney, you're not the problem.

And you're really not going to make a ton of progress progress, Sydney, until that happens. And I would push and fight for that for you to be heard and in what you're wanting because it does not sound like he's going to do much in this process.

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And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last, and that means regular, proper maintenance.

>> Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So, when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no-brainer, and they've been absolutely great.

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All right. Caleb from Indianapolis, Indiana is on the line. Hey, Caleb.

>> Hi there. Me and my wife are on baby step four debtree and are looking at buying a house and we're having a disagreement about how much we should have as a down payment. Oh, well, congratulations for getting so far. Well done on paying off debt and getting ready to buy a house. That's exciting.

What are you looking to spend? >> Thank you.

>> So, we have about 90 grand sitting in a mutual fund and a good starter house in the area is around 150 grand. What she

wants to do is spend 50 grand uh no, she

wants to leave 50 grand um in the mutual fund and we would have 30 grand as a down payment and 10 grand for closing cost. I want to use the full amount so we can have an 80 grand down payment.

>> Okay. >> We do it her way. We're following your guys' rule. The payments would be around 25% of our combined income on a fixed

15-year fixed. >> What's the reason >> The reason I'm willing to do the full 80 grand is so that in the future we at least have the opportunity to live off a single income. And I feel like that would make it easier for a baby six.

>> Okay, I see what you're saying. So, you're want to put 80. She's wanting to put a total of 50. Did I understand that? >> Uh she wants to leave 50 in. So it' be 30 grand as a down payment, 10 grand for closing cost and fees and all that.

>> So me looking at this right quickly, uh your way the payment's around 972. Her way it's around 1,400.

>> I I believe so. Yeah. >> Okay. And your thought is we can go to a one income uh household later on if we so choose >> or at least to have the opportunity of that. We don't have any kids yet, but we're wanting to start trying within the next couple of years. And >> um Caleb, what is she wanting to do with the 50 grand in the mutual fund? She wants to leave it. What What is that for for her?

>> Uh she just wants to leave it. Um she views the mutual fund as more of an investment. It feels like it would grow more there >> than it would in the house. She's very frugal. Um and a large purchase is just

uncomfortable for her. Mhm. So there's like there's like an extra safety net for her in a in a way >> to have that to have that available.

Okay. >> I actually I'm with you, Caleb. I think that that I would rather do that. I think there's more security once you have a home. It becomes the number one thing that you want to protect if you ever uh hit hard times. And so I kind of

like the idea of saying, "Hey, if we do this, our mortgage will be so low that even if only one of us were working, it would be okay." And that feels way more secure in my mind than having >> some money floating on the internet.

>> Money just floating. >> Um, how much do you guys make a year, Caleb?

>> Uh, combined around 80 grand. I just got a promotion. >> Okay, great. How old are y'all?

>> I'm 26 and she's 22.

>> Oh, wow. >> You guys are youngans. >> Y'all are so young. Um, okay. I I always

hate giving like a gray answer because I know people want like a black and white. Like J. Yeah, Jade said she would do your way. I would probably say I would lean your way too, Caleb.

Like if someone We just got this question on money and marriage. They were gifted a big inheritance and they were like, "Should we just throw it all at the house or should we use some for investing?" And we're like, >> "Yeah, just attack the house because you have all the time in the world to invest." Yes. >> You know, every single year you guys can open up a Wroth.

retirement. So, my caveat my caveats are

you sound very buttoned up, Caleb. you sound like you love running your Excel sheet and your numbers. Um, and sometimes when we're so in the numbers and so in a formula, we forget about life. And I'm just curious if she sees like we're going to have to replace a car soon, like we're going to have to do a couple of big purchases and having the cash available to help us do those things smoothly would be wise, right?

Like I don't know if that's the case, but if that's something that's in her head, that's good to know. Either way,

either option, you guys are going to be fine, Caleb. I mean, I really do believe that. I think that you guys um you could follow the Yep. the 5% 20% down and be

fine. You could throw way more at close to 50% of it and be fine. Um but at the

end of the day, I would probably choose team Caleb. um just because I like having a lower payment and you guys just have so much time on your side to save and invest >> and that um >> and it does free up uh four, you know, 450 a month to save >> 500 bucks way more quickly so that if there was something like a vehicle or all of those things that it would be nice to have a chunk of cash for, you could do it fairly quickly.

>> That's right. Yep. Or maybe you'll meet in the middle too, Caleb. you know, leave, I don't know, 25 in or something.

I don't know, leave a little bit in just for her >> to have a little bit of that security if she wants. So, yeah, y'all can meet in the middle and be great. Um, but either side, I think you you'll be fine. I mean, you guys are so young and you're so on target that I'm like, I think you guys you're going to be fine.

>> So, final ruling, there's no wrong answer, but if we if we were forced to decide, we'd go with the lower >> the lower payment, therefore higher down payment. >> Yep. >> Yep. That's it.

>> All right. I love it. Thanks for the call. That's a good one.

>> Final answer.

>> All right, we've got Katie who's in Billings, Montana. Hey Katie, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you?

>> Excellent. How can we help today?

>> Great. So, I am um

so confused when it comes to the world of investing. My husband and I um were

not in debt thankfully and we have um

been able to save up about $500,000 in the bank. Um >> Wow. Well done. >> I contribute I contribute $500 monthly

into a Roth. My husband does not have one. Um, and the investing, I guess you

could say, that we do is just in CDs in

the bank at 3.75% and we have about 200,000 in that. But >> okay, >> other than that, that's it because it feels safer to me. And I Is that foolish? >> Well, let me make sure I understood this right. I thought you said you had 500,000 in the bank, but then you said 200,000 in CDs. So, some of it's just sitting freely and some of it's in the CDs, or is that in addition, too? Some of it's just in savings accounts. Yeah.

>> Got it. Okay. >> Wow. Why are you guys averse to investing? What happened that made you feel squeamish?

>> I guess nothing happened. Um it just

it's foreign to us.

>> Yeah. >> And what you don't know can be scary. >> And when it Exactly. And when it comes to retirement, like I said, I do put $500 $500 a month um from my paycheck

into a Roth account for myself, but >> you you don't see that money until I'm close to 60 years old. And I sure >> um a CD seems a little bit safer because it's a 6 month 12 month return.

>> Yeah. Katie, how old are you guys?

>> Um I'm 31 and my husband's 37.

>> Okay, so just to do a little calculation for you. Oh my gosh. Are you ready for this? This is going to probably make you sick. ready for it. >> Okay, so I just put really quickly in if

I if you just dropped $500,000 in the market, right? This and and an average I put 12% rate of return. Some people get mad at that. I'm going to just do it for fun because it was way more than that the past couple years. There's some down years, but the past couple years have been fantastic. So, I'm going to put 12% average. It's actually been more than that, but I'm going to just leave that.

Um, and if you did that right now at 31,

um, by the time you're 67, if you just set just let this money grow, you would have $36 million.

>> Okay. >> Wow. >> So, if you kept it in now, if you kept it in the CD, which is averaging 1.7%

interest right now, I'm going to bump it up to two because I'm feeling gracious to the CDs. >> You'd have you'd have 1 million. You'd have 1 million. >> Sure.

So, so >> you're leaving $35 million on the table, Katie. So, >> what we have to realize is we need to understand this intimidating part of money, which is investing. And I get that there's a lot of >> people use diversification, index funds, S&P 500, you know, you're like, what is what is all like, yeah, what does this all mean? >> Um, so I would because you guys have done so well.

I mean, >> it's crazy. >> It's Yeah, >> crazy that you've saved this much. I mean, this is it's amazing. You guys are incredible.

At 31 years old, >> I would sit down with a Smart Vest pro in your area. Um, when when we get off the phone, Christian will pick up and he can kind of direct you on the website where to go. Um, but you could, but I would meet Katie, meet with two or three Smart Vest pros in your area, okay?

from them because these are the and these have all been vetted. So these are great people, but you're going to naturally connect and feel more comfortable probably with one or two over another, right? >> And that's really important this process cuz anyone that's going to help you kind of push the buttons and investing, you want to feel really, really good about >> and I would ask every question that you

can think of. Don't feel like, oh my gosh, I feel stupid asking this. I should know none of that. And and actually start to get the basics and learn what does this mean?

What does it look like if I invest in an index fund or a mutual fund? What types of funds are out there? I mean, there's so much you could be doing with this money to make you money that's it may kind of feel risky, but at the same time, compared to what you would make on the other end, >> absolutely.

The ups and downs are real, but the overall picture is uh pretty bright. So,

that's what I would do. Katie, if you're looking for a more budget friendly way to save on medical costs and stay true to your values, Christian Healthcare Ministries is a great option to think about. CHM is not health insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry, a biblical community-based way for Christians to share each other's medical bills.

That means no enrollment deadlines, and you can choose any doctor or hospital you want. That kind of freedom is big, especially if you're self-employed, between jobs, or you just need something that fits your budget better. CHM has been around for decades, faithfully serving the Christian community. And many members save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional health insurance.

And that margin gives you breathing room when you're working the baby steps and trying to steward your money well.

credit towards their first month of membership. Get started at chmin ministries.org/budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's chministries.org/budget and promo code Ramsey.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. It's still me, Jay Warshaw, with Rachel Cruz going straight to the phone lines where we got Jeff in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Hi, Jeff.

>> Hey, Rachel. Jade, how are you? An honor to be on the show. >> Awesome. We're glad to have you. I discovered uh the Ramsey about the Ramsey show about six months ago and I've been following a lot of your principles and uh just have a question.

Got a question for you. >> Okay. >> So I'm 37 next month. My wife is 31

and we have been putting away money

investing in retirement uh investing in you know future growth for ourselves to live comfortably later on. And we in our

community, the children live next to the parents, relatively close next to the parents. And we have bought three

residential single family residential homes for our childrens to be able to live next to us. We got three girls.

>> Yeah, we bought three homes for our We want We want our girls to live next to us. So, we bought the three residential homes so they can live relatively walking distance to us. >> Okay. How old are the girls?

>> So, the girls are eight, six, and four.

>> Wow. You got started early with the purchases. I mean, >> yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. We definitely wanted to start early and um we got great interest rates. We bought it when uh the co w rates are around in the twos and in the threes. So, right now we got tenants there that covered the that covered the rent until uh you know it's time to give it to them when we feel the time is right.

>> And my question goes like this.

will not want to live because the area is changing and most likely the kids will not live next to us.

>> Sure. Yeah.

>> So, what happens is we find ourselves in an interesting position. Right now, we have tenants that cover the mortgage and we have a little bit of extra every month, like $2,200 extra from the three homes every month. And we've been

doubting ourselves that this is the right path going forward because we are thinking to cash out these three homes, sell them, cash out $1.65 million

from, you know, basically what the down payments we put in. >> Yeah. What what you get out of equity out of the three? >> The equity is 1.65. Take this 1.65 minus

the taxes we would have to pay on that, which is about let's say we'll be end up with like 13 or something like that.

>> Yeah. and put the 13 into an S&P mirrored fund where let's say 20 years

down the line. >> I love this.

>> That grows to a huge number.

>> Yes. >> And then if they want to live in XYZ area, okay, here's a million dollars. Go buy the house. A >> genius. A genius move.

>> No. So my question is, is that the right move or should they just let the house keep on being paid off by tenants?

>> What? Um, >> do you guys own your do do you guys own your house, Jeff, you and your wife, or do you still have a mortgage on it?

>> No, we actually have a 2% rate. Yeah, we we are um we own our house straight up.

We actually have like 1.3 equity in our own home. >> Okay. But And you don't owe anything on it?

>> No, we do. It's worth about >> What do you owe on it currently today?

>> 368. >> 368. But it's worth 1.3.

>> No, no, it's worth about 1.8. Holy smokes. Way to go.

>> Maybe one nine even. Yeah. >> You know what I would do? If you're offloading the three houses for the the kids, I'd take a little of that money.

If you said the whole thing you'll walk away with 1.3, I'd probably take some of that and I'd pay off your house in full and then I'd invest the other million.

>> And you will >> and invest and then invest your mortgage payment back into this fund for the girls. >> Uhhuh. >> Even though Even though the Now I I've listened to Ramsey, I know you guys say you pay off that mortgage no matter what. So my question is I got a 2% rate.

>> Yeah. >> With 15 years exactly to go even though it's 2% pay that off.

>> Yes. Because you're the guy who would take the full mortgage payment that you were paying and you'll invest it in that you'll invest it. I can tell that you would do it. Um >> you'd rather make 12% than 2%. You know

>> right. Right. I hear that. I hear it.

>> Yeah. And Jeff too.

>> But my question is would you sell the three home? That's my question. I would >> you you would >> I would only because the reason that you said you purchased them >> was for your kids to live in them so that they could be close to you. That was the number one reason and that's the only reason I heard by the way. Um and so much life and and when you told me their ages 4, 6, and 8, so much can happen in that time. Number one, like you said, the neighborhood can go down.

Number two, there are three different women who will have three different lives that could go in any direction. I would never want this for you, Jeff, cuz I know how much you love him. But she may she may meet a meet a meet a Mike

and move move in with her husband, you know what I mean? Somewhere >> or you get a different job and you want to move. Like there's so much life that can happen over the course of the next 18 years or so. And so for that reason,

I think you'd probably get a better bang

for your buck and have more freedom with the type of investment that you were talking about. And when you told us the spreads on the rent, it wasn't all that great. >> Yeah. Either way. >> No. Like like No, we don't end up making money at the end of the year because here in HVAC breaks and educ.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, I have clarity on that. I have one more question. I'm sorry. I'll make it quick. Go ahead.

>> What is the right So again, I'm 37 next month. My wife is 31 32 next month. So,

what is the right age to write a will

>> today?

Really? >> Yeah. Today because you've got especially because you've got minor kids and there is a big part of the will that's going to decide what would happen to those kids if God forbid something happened to you and your wife. If you don't make a will today, the courts will decide that. And that is that for that reason alone. There's many other reasons, but for that reason alone, I would be sitting with a lawyer today.

>> It's a mess. Yeah. Jeff, one of the Ramsey person that hosts the show, George Camel, he has my favorite line.

He's like, "If you hate your family, don't do a will." Because because it's so it it it creates what would be a horrible situation. Your whole family

trying to untangle, you know, your whole life and and from the from the financial sense and try to figure out what what is happening financially, what's happening with the girls. I mean, it just it can create so much stress. But when it's all laid out in a will, if you go to Mama Bear Legal Forms, Jeff, you could you can do a state specific will with them.

your estate might be a little bit more complicated once you guys get into it because you own multiple properties and different things. So, you may actually want to sit down with an estate attorney just to draft one up. Um, but I yes, I

would do a will today and and I just want to applaud you, Jeff. This is such a success story like what you and your wife have done because we talk about changing your family tree and that's in

the way you view money, the way you handle money, the role that money plays.

And when you're deeply in debt and you're living paycheck to paycheck and life is so stressful with money, that's the environment your kids grow up in. But you guys, Jeff, have made such great decisions. Your girls not only are in a an environment that's peaceful when it comes to money, but you're also going to literally live out changing their family tree. Like if you bought your girls a home that is >> and they never had a mortgage and then they invested that mortgage payment for the rest of their life and then their kids that that's generational wealth working for the good.

Do you know what I mean?

was such a drive to really really really

and when I discovered the Ramsey show I'm like oh my gosh there's a match made in heaven. They taught my language.

>> I love that. I love that. I'm so proud of you. >> And your kids, they're going to be so much better for it. I can tell you're going to raise them to be able to actually be great stewards of this money and do exactly what you've done, which is continue that legacy for the family.

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All right, let's head back to the phone lines where we have Chris who's in Montana. Big Sky, what's going on, Chris?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. You bet.

>> Um, so I make about uh 4,500 a month uh

gross conservatively. Uh monthly bills including my car around 3,200. And after

uh recent divorce, I live with my parents paying 400 a month while I kind of stabilize my financial life. Um, in that time I've lost over 180 pounds, had a major skin removal surgery, and I'm kind of getting back to a point where I'm feeling disciplined and focused.

>> But my biggest concern is my daughters.

>> So, uh, both of them have a genetic condition that's called Dicer 1 syndrome. Uh, my youngest is clean so far, but my oldest has cysts in her lungs, kidneys, and brain.

>> Oh, wow. I'm so sorry.

>> And we're having to monitor that very closely. Uh so I'm trying to find the

balance where uh in the event of a very possible medical issue, I have a comfortable savings buffer beyond that

base $1,000 emergency fund and where the balances between how much should I have there just in case cuz we regularly go from Missoula to Seattle Children's Hospitals for the girls, which is about eight hours each way. How how how often

do you foresee going to do they have

them removed every once in a while? Is that how it works or what's that going to look like for you long term medically? >> So, right right now it's just monitoring and making sure that they don't grow any more than they have. She's got one in her left kidney that has grown at a concerning rate. So they've got medical boards meeting on what's the best decision because >> I mean yeah you can operate with just one kidney but >> sure >> if we take one out and the other one's already got an issue.

>> Yeah. How much Chris um on average do

you think you guys are spending a month on this

>> or is it or is it or is it every like four to five months something comes up or every eight months? What's the calendar look like? It's about It's about four times a year that we have to make this trip and each trip is around probably $600 to $800.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, it doesn't you don't hit your deductible. It's just straight out of everything comes straight out of pocket.

>> Um, so they are so that's all travel expense and hotels. They're under Montana Medicaid. So, they're taken care of by the state. >> Okay. So, what otherwise it would be >> Yeah. So, what I probably would do because how much debt do you have?

Um, including the car. Uh, total sub 30,000. >> 30,000. Okay. And you're are I'm sorry.

You're divorced.

>> I am. Yeah. >> Okay. Is your wife that that $600 to $800 is that um split between you guys

or is that what you're paying and then she's paying the same amount too? What does that look like?

>> Um I generally fund it. I'm in a better financial position. Um and then she'll help with a hotel every other night kind of thing. >> Okay. I gotcha. Okay.

>> Um, so what I would probably do, cuz I mean Jade and I are both moms and I'm like, I would do >> anything for my kids. They're they're number one. Paying off debt's amazing and we want you to be able to do that, but taking care of our kids and making sure that Yes.

>> So, absolutely. >> What I would probably do is have a different account. Um, that would be

kind of like my the girls account, if you will. >> And I would make sure I have $800 in it.

And then when you use it for a trip, my

I would pause the debt snowball, refill that, and then go back to the debt snowball. But I would have that 800 continuously in an account, even if that means pausing the debt snowball for a bit, um, and throwing money at that to

replenish that account. But that's the one I would keep consistent. And then if something changes, Chris, if you guys get a different diagnosis or you see she's going have to have surgery and there's going to be more expenses either on the travel side or anything medical, that's when we would pause the baby. That's when we'd pause baby step two and and build back up a bigger emergency fund. That's probably what I would do just because it seems consistent. But >> yeah. Um how tell me about the the state

paying for it. Is there um is there an income that if you hit a certain income the state will no longer pay?

>> Yeah, I'm I'm sure there is. And they go through uh their mom with that side of things. >> I was going to say, is that on your side? >> Okay. So, your income can go up as much as you want and it won't affect their care. >> Yeah. Then they still get consistent medical care with Montana. >> Okay. Good. So on your end, I would then be doing, secondary to what Rachel said, I'd be doing everything I can to blow my income up as far as I can. How long is

this deal going to be going with your parents?

The $400 a month.

>> I is they're very flexible. They'll I

have it as long as I need it to get up on my feet. >> Okay. And in your line, like what's your thought in your mind on that?

>> I would really like to be out of there in two, three years at the absolute most. >> Okay. Okay. And you guys just split custody of the girls. Is it how does that work? Every >> 50/50. Yeah. So Sunday to Sunday, I have them a week at a time and then they go back to mom. >> Okay. So I'd be looking for a side hustle or something that when that week that they're not with you that you can just go crazy on because I think for you

having that fund for medical and then getting this debt paid off that is going to relieve so much stress. like there's enough stress with the diagnosis of this that getting the financial side in order as quickly as possible is going to do a lot for your soul, >> you know? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's what I would do.

That's what I would do. >> Yep. I'm sorry, Chris. You guys are going through that.

It's horrible. So heartbreaking, >> very tough. But you've got a plan now and that can give you a lot a lot of peace. >> And who you're going to be even in the next two years, Chris, what you've done so far from a health perspective is unbelievable.

Losing 180 lbs. Like you are amazing. It's amazing. So, keep keep on the track cuz you're Yeah, you're creating a whole new life for yourself, Chris.

We're proud of you. >> So, good. All right. Thanks for the call.

We've got Jackson next in Boisee, Idaho. Hi, Jackson.

>> Uh, hey, uh, it's good to be on here.

Kind of didn't expect to be on here, but this is awesome. >> Cool. We're glad you're glad you're here. >> How can we help today? >> Yeah, it's really cool. Uh, yeah. So, I um, I'm getting out of the military. I'm 100% disabled, permanent in total. And so I get um the VA healthcare um for free. However, you know, I do want to have a family at some point. And I've heard a lot about like um HSAs. And my

kind of question is um should I kind of open up another account or open up get other um insurance for the sake of an HSA or should I wait until kind of that that bridge comes for?

>> You don't have the family yet? You're not married or with kids yet?

>> Uh yeah. I mean, just are you just saying for the for the possible ability to invest in the HSA? Is that what you're talking about when you said you've heard of them?

>> Yeah, I've heard about like the the tax advantages and stuff and so I kind of figured it'd be good um thing investment wise, but also like the health insurance thing. >> I mean, well, right now you're fully covered by VA, right?

>> Yes. >> So, you don't need the coverage and your family is not here yet for them to need the coverage. And so then when you think about it from an investment point of view, it really is on down the line from other ways to invest. I would rather you invest money in a Roth IRA if you could or something like that.

Um before I'd go to an HSA. It's kind of just like once you have it, it's very nice to have, but it's not something you have to seek out and go get for that purpose.

that reason, I I would say you're just fine as you are. >> Yeah. As is. >> Yeah. Yeah. It it is a great option.

like Jade said, if you're using it above healthcare for an investment, but that's after you've maxed out, um whether it's 401ks, you know, >> Roth IAS, I mean, all of it. It's just another investment vehicle. But, >> uh, at this point in life, I think you Yeah, I probably wouldn't I probably wouldn't hassle with it because you have great healthcare with the VA.

>> Okay. Well, that that makes sense. That answers the question. I appreciate you guys helping. >> Awesome. Thank you so much for the call.

It's a good question. >> Yeah. Um, HSAs, you know, they're they're really great. Like you said, they've got that triple tax advantage.

And a lot of people, if you know you don't need to access the money for health, yeah, go ahead and invest it.

Usually, you can invest it uh there's usually a minimum of like $1,000 that kind of has to stay liquid and then you can invest the rest and over time um

it'll just convert into a normal like IRA. You don't even have to use it uh for medical expenses, which is it is it is nice to have that. But if an HSA is

not the right uh a high deductible plan is not right for you, I would not get the plan simply to have access to >> to an HSA. That's right. Absolutely.

>> Because saving and your emergency fund and stuff can cover some medical things that are out of pocket where the HSA may step in and do that if you were using it for medical purposes. Um so there's ways around it for sure. It's great if you have it. Uh it's just kind of another tool to invest in, but definitely not necessary and probably wouldn't move mountains for it. >> No, I definitely wouldn't move mountains for it. Thank you so much for the call.

This is the Ramsay Show.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it.

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The truth is we wish that we could get to every call and every question here on the Ramsay Show. So, but we can't. I mean, there's a limited amount of time.

We have segments and we go to commercial breaks. So, if it ever seems like we cut you off, it's cuz you got to make that clock. But if you do have a question and you want an answer for your situation, you can always head over to our website and use Ask Ramsay. Ask Ramsey is our

free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsy principles and you'll get an answer that really is the Ramsay way.

So, you don't have to worry about it.

You know, if you go to, I don't know, like Open AI, you could get a lot of things mixed in there. But if you go to ask Ramsay, it will be Ramsay advice the way we would give it on the show. So ask your question today at ramseyolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Love that. All right, next is Katie in Columbus, Ohio. Hi Katie, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um my name is Katie. Yeah, I just wanted to see I recently got a $2.6 $6

million settlement and I just wanted to

figure out what I should kind of do with the money. Um >> Oh, wow. >> I have a mortgage and I'm trying to figure out whether or not I should pay that off or not.

>> Yeah. What was it from the settlement?

>> Um it's a lawsuit.

>> Is it like But you're okay. There's nothing. Is there anything we should know about you going forward or you're all good?

>> I'm all good. Okay. So, no ongoing medical issues or anything out of it?

>> No, not yet. >> Okay. Okay. Um, how much is your mortgage?

>> My mortgage is 190,000. That's how much

we have on the principal and I'm at 2.75%.

>> Okay. Is is it just you or do you have a family? >> Um, I have a husband. I don't have any children. >> Okay. >> And my husband is a student right now and he's working on becoming an air traffic controller. >> Oh. How old are you guys?

>> Um, I am currently 30 and my husband is 31. >> Okay. And do you guys have any other consumer debt?

>> Um, let me see. We have 105 from student

loans for me. Um, I'm under >> Okay. >> And then my husband, um, he's going to be about 150 total.

>> Okay, >> great. And then but no car payments, credit cards, anything? Um, cars is 25K

for me and then my husband is he only has 76K left on his.

>> Okay. Credit cards.

>> No credit cards. >> Okay. So, my biggest question would be

before we get to the 2.6 million. Um, let's pretend that 2.6 million, whatever

happened to caused that to come your way never happened. Were you already on the track to say, you know what, this debt is kind of crushing us. We need to we

need to do something about it. Had you already kind of been looking at that or kind of tell us how you arrived at calling calling the show. Was it just the 2.6 million?

>> Yeah. So, I mean, basically, it's the 2.6, fix. But in in all reality, uh my

husband once he graduates from school, our plan was to immediately start attacking that as much as we possibly could. Okay. >> Um I have been working 60 hours a week

currently. Um and I make about 120k

annually right now.

>> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. So, as long I I just wanted to before we started saying you need to take this money and pay off the debt, I wanted to make sure like philosophically we aligned on the idea that debt is no

moving forward. If it gets paid off that we're not going back into the habit of taking out debt for stuff we want.

>> Oh, absolutely not. No.

>> Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. Because sometimes you can come in with a lawsuit um like this or inheritance and just in

one sweeping motion be completely debtree even your mortgage, which is amazing and that's where we're going to guide you to, but >> it comes back. But if that behavior, yes, hasn't been changed or the belief system hasn't been changed, you'll be right back into debt, you know, um and how quickly, >> I mean, 2.6 million is amazing, but yes, we just want to make sure that you can um yeah, sustain a lifestyle that still makes sense. Um so, yeah. So, um yeah,

Katie, I mean, what I would do is Yeah, it looks like you guys will have close to $200,000 in debt, not including the mortgage. If you include the mortgage, that's around 400,000 after all the student loans and everything. So, I would pay everything off. That would leave you 2.2 million.

And >> okay. >> Yeah, there's really three things that you can do with money and I would do all three at some capacity. Uh you can give it, you can save it, and you can spend

it. So, I would look um to see, you

know, what are things that you and your husband really care about. I don't know if you are someone of, you know, that practices a certain faith or if there's things in the community that you guys I mean as a nurse I'm sure you see a lot like so I don't I don't know what that looks like for you but >> any level of we go to church every Sunday. >> Okay. Yeah.

So any level of generosity um is going to be I think an important part of this picture just because um the practice of that I think is just it's an amazing thing and it changes who you guys are. So I would be giving >> I do have a question about that actually. >> Yeah.

>> Y >> but everyone has seems to have a different opinion on gifting money to family because they don't want it to turn into a transactional relationship and they don't want it to change the relationship dynamic. What is your opinion on that? because my husband and I are both, you know, we both want a gift, but we want to make it so that it's not like a reoccurring thing or an expectation with family, you know.

>> Yes, that's I think it's great advice because you can easily >> Yes. get into that where it becomes a habit that Katie is suddenly so rich and we can just go to her when we need things. Um, so is is there is there

something that you guys have pinpointed with your families like maybe paying your parents house off or like is there a thing that you're thinking about or you just >> Okay. What what is that? What are you guys thinking about?

>> So, my in-laws u my parents um are

unfortunately not around. Um but my in-laws, we were thinking about um gifting them with a car. Their car is on its last um >> its last leg. Yes. Um and they they need a new one. Um and they're >> so I was thinking about that and then also getting um you know giving my

giving my brother some some money too.

He's got some health issues going on as well. >> Yes. >> So >> yeah, I um I I would be okay with that

with some like very communicated

boundaries around it. I think just the

idea of it just happening, I probably be

a little bit more intentional with it.

>> Um, okay. >> So, I probably would sit down with his parents and just say, "Hey, >> um, you know, we've been put in a position that we're able to do some giving and, um, we would love to help

replace your car." And here is I I

almost would this maybe sound too controlling. I almost would go ahead and just buy it and a and a >> 100% I was going to say >> instead of giving them cash.

>> Um and a very like modest car. Yes.

>> Um but you know but but a good car, right? Like go spend some money on it.

Um >> do your family members know about the 2.6 million? Do they know this happened and that you got a large sum of money?

>> Not at all. And I don't plan on sharing that. >> I think that's great. That's what I was going to say.

So, I think you guys can kind of like sneakily come in and help them in that way. And then your brother, if he has outstanding medical bills and you guys want to pay some or all or whatever you decide, then again, if you can not just give cash, >> pay the bill, >> pay the bill, pay for the pay and get the actual car, you know, that kind of thing I think is helpful.

think that's the way to I Yeah, that doesn't like freak me out. I think >> it doesn't freak. I think you know the person like you know the type of character that someone has where they maybe have the propensity to take advantage or they have the ability to you know you give them an inch and they take a mile and if you know these aren't that sort of this is not that sort of person then I would do that in two seconds. >> Yep. >> And I think it's a great blessing.

>> Yep. >> Really good. >> Yeah. And and then >> thank you very much.

>> Yes. And then investing some too Katie and spend some you know if you guys need some upgrades on some things or you want to take a great trip. Yeah. Um, leave some room for that because you don't need to be working 60 hours a week anymore.

You know, I wouldn't change your work. I would still be contributing and still be going to work. I think that's just good >> in general for a person. Um, >> yeah.

You don't want it to take away your sense of purpose. >> Yes, that's right. You know. >> Yep.

>> So, I could see spending a reasonable amount, like you said, on things that increase your day-to-day quality of life. >> Get Spotify Premium if you haven't already. you know, get some of the enjoyment of life. >> I think that's great to up some of your lifestyle a little bit.

Um, >> yeah, and and just be really intentional, be aware, and then and then again, be sitting down with an investment professional that you guys feel good about and invest a good bit of this money cuz this will take you guys on into Yes. into retirement and completely change your life.

Our question of the day is brought to you by Y refi, a defaulted private student loan. Loans don't go away by ignoring them, but you can face them with a plan. Why refi helps you refinance into low fixed rate payments built around what you can afford so they so that you can take control and get back on the baby steps. So go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Today's question comes from Daniel in California. He said, "I'm 28 years old and have $100,000 in student loans, car loans, credit cards, and a 401k loan. My girlfriend and I have lived together for three years and recently got engaged.

Would it be better for us to alope and then save for a formal wedding once my debt is paid off, or should I pay off my debt while she saves for the wedding?" She has no debt. I am currently working both full-time and part-time to knock out what I owe.

Oh man, this always hurts my heart. I was on the show with Ken because Ken is like not anti-wedding, but he's like just don't worry like it's fine. It's one day. It's one day. I love a great wedding. Like so it always hurts my heart when I'm like just go alope. But I would Daniel after three years >> I go go tie the knot and then you guys can save up and and pay for a great wedding. So, I would go down to the courthouse, make it what it is, and and

then you guys save up for a fun party, and I think so.

>> I would go get married, >> but again, it kind of hurts my heart a little bit cuz I love a good wedding. >> I do, too. Um, she's she's going to be the one that feels this. >> Yes, probably. Mhm.

>> You know that.

>> But, Godund,

you know what I I'm like, that's going to be another two and a half years possibly depending on what he makes. Um, so I wouldn't wait that long to get married. I would go ahead and get married. >> I wouldn't unless her idea Okay, I could talk about this a little bit more. >> Okay, go. >> Um, if her idea of a formal wedding can

be done for a lot less than what I'm

thinking in my head. And you guys,

what are you thinking? 10 15. >> Yeah, I was Yeah, I was thinking 15 20.

But if you can if you can cash flow it

both of you and maybe it's like she you know with her job can contribute half and you contribute half. I might I might could be okay for that >> and you could do it in like 6 months or something. Yeah. >> Um just because I just feel like she's going to be like wait a second.

>> I know she's got to be bought in.

>> Are you telling me that I can't have my wedding because of your debt? I I I agree. Like sitting in this chair it's right. But if Sam Warshaw came to me back in the day and was like, "First off, I have $100,000 in debt and for

that reason, we're just going to be I

ring." She'd say, "Nope." >> I don't know if I would.

>> That's a good point, though. If you can cash flow this, but I wouldn't wait >> I wouldn't wait longer than than five to six months, though. I would do it quick. >> Agree. I would do this quick because you can have a really nice party. It doesn't have to be in secret, I guess, is what I'm saying. Right. Right.

>> You can have a really nice party and then save up and do another really nice party later on. Yes. So,

>> if you can save for it quick, again, four to five months. >> Yeah. >> Uh then you can Yeah. do the wedding.

But if you guys are just like it's not a big deal to either one of you, um then I

would Yeah. Then I would elope and then you guys can Yep. put your incomes together, pay off that debt faster, and then >> Oh man, that's hard. It is hard, but

yeah, you heard you heard our ideas.

>> Yes, we gave you two options.

>> That's good. All right, we've got Richard who's in Bowling Green, Kentucky, on the line right up the road.

What's going on, Richard?

>> Oh, doing good. Thanks for taking my call. >> Yeah, you bet. How can we help today?

>> Okay. Um, I found uh you guys about a year and a half ago. Um, and just a year ago, I was I'm lucky enough our our guests are thankful enough. I I found me a really good job. I make 140 a year.

>> Good. and we um we kind of made a boo boo. We bought my 16-year-old at the time a car and she's like, "I'm gonna

work. I'm gonna pay for it." Blah blah blah blah. Well, she after about 6 months decided she wasn't going to work.

Now the car is in mine in the wife's name because she was 16 and can't take the loan. >> Sure. How much?

>> And well, at the time it was 23 and now

it's down to 14. We have paid it down to 14,000. >> Okay. My question is, should I sell it

or should I keep it and just finish paying it off? Because I'm in my debt snowball right now and it's like the bill I'm working on right now. It's three more above that and then then I'll be putting all towards that car.

>> How much are you and your wife's vehicles worth?

>> Um, >> what' you spend on those?

>> Well, I spent um I spent 20 on mine and it's paid off and I spent like 28 on hers and it's paid off. >> Okay. And how old is the your daughter now? >> Yeah. Well, she just turned 18 two months ago. >> Okay. I mean, you're you're in the parameter like for your income 140. We'd say no more than half of your annual income in vehicles. So, you're you're right there 20 28 and 23. Um you're

right at the cusp. Um a little bit over, but since the others are paid off, I'm not going to be too much of a tyrant about it. You could keep it um and pay it down. She's 18 now.

>> Yeah, she just turned 18. And have you guys talked to her about taking over the loan?

>> Uh, tried to, but it's like talking to a brick wall. >> Oh, I'm not liking what I'm hearing about this. I have a hard time grateful.

>> Yeah, >> right. Yeah, it's Yeah, she she's got this attitude that she's entitled to it.

And I'm like, >> oh, then sell it in two seconds, >> right? >> She ain't put up with that. Well, and you put your daughter in debt, Richard.

>> I don't like that either.

So, >> and that's what that's what I out of the principal. >> Yeah. If you guys were babys seven, you had tons of money. I would say if you wanted just to pay for it and then say there it's yours, whatever. I don't like the idea of you setting her up with debt. So, I think you sit her down and say, "Sweetie, I'm so sorry. We messed

up. We You said we had a boo boo." Right. So, you said the beginning of the call, right? Uh, not only is the deal

that we had made disintegrated, which I don't blame her entire, she's 16, like the frontal part of her like brain isn't even formed yet. So, you're putting a lot of responsibility on a 16-year-old, which was not very smart. >> How much is the car now, >> right?

>> Um, it's right at 450 a month.

>> That's a lot. How much could you sell it for? If you sold it, what would you get for it? >> Oh, I don't have no idea to be honest with you. I mean, 100% I wouldn't know.

Like I said, it's >> Yeah. So, I would look it up >> 14 on it. >> Yeah. I mean, in a perfect world, it's not upside down. In a perfect world, you'd get 18 and you could buy her a $4,000 car and just call it like a, hey, we did this. >> But yeah, but I would say the two things. Number one, the deal that we made was a bad deal for you. And the

deal we made now goes against the value system on which I think that you should live financially. And because of that, I in good faith, I can't keep you held to

a loan because I don't think that that's the right way to to live with your money. And so it's in our name >> and we're going to sell it. But you but she is 18 so I don't even want to give her the choice to take it on like >> No, I would not transfer this over. It's a Rachel makes a very good point.

On the one hand, you guys were in the wrong for bestowing this life of debt in front of her. >> See that now? And we see that now.

hoping for in this moment. So, I would not want to reward that behavior. I like what Rachel said about kind of going and saying, "Hey, you know what? We said this, that was our mistake, our bad." However, you also haven't shown that you really want a vehicle. And because of how you're acting, it's very hard for us to even uh fund one the correct way, which is in cash for you at this stage.

And so, I I would kind of play both sides of that field. >> She's going to be mad, mad, mad, Richard. So, listen, that's the thing about when you set up a boundary, >> you put up the boundary and then regardless of what that person, how they react, what they say, that's on them at that point. But we you probably know from data points that it's it's not going to be great.

But >> but I really do believe in the long run for her >> it's going to be better. >> It's going to be better. >> It's going to be better. Um and she is going to remember the lesson.

If you to me there's something so big when a parent apologizes and is like I made a mistake and here's what I did. I never should have done that. That sticks with a kid for a very very long time. So, she's going to remember the fact that my parents went into debt and they looked at it and realized it was the wrong thing.

willing to take back my former thing about uh not getting her a car cuz what I wouldn't want to happen is that that lesson getting lost in the the the part where she no longer has a car. Do you know what I mean? So, there's part of me that I'm like maybe I would give her the $5,000 car. Yeah, I probably would. Yep.

>> And then she remembers the bigger lesson. >> She's real pissed. She can go get a car loan on her own and make her own decisions at that point. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's a good one. Thank you for the call.

>> Richard, I hope it goes well. We'll be praying for you.

All

right, welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

We're here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio taking calls about your life and money. I'm still with Rachel Cruz. I'm still Jade Warshaw. >> We're doing it. >> We're still doing it. All right, going back to Dominic who's in Springfield, Massachusetts, I'm guessing on the line.

And what's up, Dominic?

>> Hello, Jada. How are you? >> I'm good. How can we help? Did I get it right? Is MA Massachusetts?

>> Uh, yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, I got a I just have a quick question for you guys. Uh, not too long.

So, um, I have a lot of money investing.

So, like I'm a rookie when it comes to investing. I just started I hired an investor back in September. And, um, I'm watching my investments go as along the way. And um it it doesn't look like my investments are doing as great as I wish I could.

And the other thing is too like I I I think I want to like cash out my investments and cuz like a couple years down the road I'm trying to buy a house and move out of my parents house and I just don't know if um should I cash out the investments or just kind of hope for the best and >> are they retirement? Is it like IRA Roth IRA type stuff?

>> No. So what's the vehicle? >> Well, no. So a lot of my So yeah. No, I do have a 401k but I wouldn't use that for the house. it would. So, I have a lot of my money in the S&P 500.

>> Okay. >> I have $97,000

in what's called Riverbridge and then I have another $135,000

in um like another little fund that they have. It's um it's like it's what it's called a structured note.

>> Okay. And they're just tax is just a taxable brokerage account.

Um, yeah, one of them is like kind of like a brokerage account and then the other one is a it's a I guess like a

um I'm not really so sure how to put it.

The the river bridge is what's um it's a

Nvidia and then Google it's an investment and >> Okay. So, so it's like Yeah. Yeah. So, it's like not just it's not a single stock it's like a lot of them. Yeah.

>> How many together? How many single stocks are in that fund?

Um, I think it's about like 10. I'm not

entirely so sure to be honest.

>> Okay. Okay. So, part of me, um, what I

don't like about what I'm hearing is you're not sure about what you're invested in, which is always a red flag for me because you should understand it

enough to be able to explain it back in a way that is clear. So, part of me um,

and I think you understand facets of it obviously, but there's obviously facets that maybe you're not sure of. Um, so that's thing number one that I'm thinking about. Thing number two I'm thinking about is the fact that you said ultimately you're trying to buy a house and I'm wondering what your timeline is for that because um that that does play

into whether or not I would keep this or what I would do with this money going forward. So what's your timeline for the house >> like within like the next like couple years? I'm really interested in moving out of my parents house and I was thinking whether I should rent or buy and I am looking more towards to buying because I feel like I can afford it. I do have a good chunk of change but >> um yeah I um >> How much are you making a year?

>> I'm my my full-time position I make uh like 75k a year. >> Okay. How did you save up all this money? I mean it's like almost >> 2005,00 is um >> Yeah. No, I I'm a I'm a really frugal person. I don't really spend my money.

Yeah. >> And before too, I started working full-time. I had a like back in high school, I was working little part-time job, you know, I was pretty much always saved money and never really spent.

>> Good for you. Well, if you're thinking about there's two parts to this. So, first off, I based off of what you've said, the way this money is invested, it's not invested the way we would tell you to do it here, uh, the Ramsay way.

It sounds like your your 135 is probably

mostly in bonds or something like that with the structured note that you have.

And then the other is in index funds, which is fine. We would teach you if you are going to invest your money to do it in mutual funds against across four different types. And it doesn't sound like you have it invested that way. So I would think about rolling that money into the proper investments versus cashing it out per se. Um, now if you

were ready to buy a house immediately, I would say you could go ahead and pull it out. But if you really are thinking, hey, this is two to three years down the line. What I'd be doing is I'd be meeting with a smart investor pro and saying, hey, I have this money invested.

The way the the reason that your return is not very great is it sounds like you have a lot of bonds with that 135 invested. That's why it's probably going very slowly. Um, and I would say I don't like the way this money is invested. I don't believe it's invested the money the Ramsay way and that it's getting me the best um rate of return. And then I would have them roll it over into better funds. Um, and then yeah, I just let it

sit and grow for the next however many years until you're ready. And just understand that when money is invested for 5 years or less, >> you may or may not, you know what I mean? That 5year point is kind of when we see like there is a locked in um um

you your money has grown. There's a higher rate that it will have grown by 5 years versus if it's less than 5 years, there's more um fluctuation within that.

So, just know that. And even like the Riverbridge account, like I I would almost feel more okay with that if you said there were 50 individual stocks in there, but the 10 >> 10 feels really limited. A lot of risk

in that. >> To be honest with you, um Riverbridge, I think it is a lot more stocks. It's just um I so I hired So I don't do this by myself. I hired a professional.

He's really good. I I I like him a lot. And um I he answers all my questions when I ask him. And >> But your returns your returns aren't what you said they should be.

That's a red flag for me. >> Yeah. I Yeah. Um I don't know if it's really necessarily his fault.

It's just I guess it's just the stock market. It's just what I'm >> Well, it depends on what you're invested in. That's the whole point.

bonds are going to move slower than anything else, that's kind of like what you transfer to when you're almost ready to retire. So, you could you could stand to be more aggressive in your approach.

That's just me high level looking at it based on what you said. >> Yeah. looking at some funds that are, you know, um, aggressive growth type mutual funds, you probably would see more return, but also, you know, it is the long game. So, I wouldn't, but I would make sure that, yeah, from a investment strategy perspective, like what you're saying, Jade, there's >> a right way to play that long game.

Um, >> I agree. I mean, don't get me wrong, if you love this guy and you think that you just need to spend more time with him to understand, great. I'm not going to tell you to divert.

um >> like like guaranteed but then once you go to the stock market you're like whoa.

You know what I mean? Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just not really Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, and I think you know over the next two to three years, Dominic, I would use majority of this to put as much down on a house as possible and then have that and then and then re

re-energize the the investment machine, if you will. Um, so I think you're,

yeah, I mean, I would look into it, but 2 to 3 years isn't going to make or break you cuz you're probably going to use this for the house. But I would just from a knowledge perspective, like what Jade's saying is sit down and really get a good grasp on what all this is and check out our investment, you know, philosophy on the four types of mutual funds. And again, we're even okay with an index fund that's just over, you know, the broad scope if you just want to put your money in that, too. But, um, but the diversification piece is really is really big.

That's what I would ask him about that that other fund, but I'd get out of I'd get out of the bond market personally. >> Uh yeah, I would too. It sounds like I was just kind of looking at it a little bit and it just sounds like it's way more predictable. There's an income facet of it.

There's a lot of protection against the downside of the market. So, it sounds like this is just very very conservative for you. Um and >> at your age, you probably don't need it. >> You don't need to be.

Yeah, you got time, buddy. So, get out there. Test the waters as well. Dominic though, keep the keep the uh the Yeah, the habits in place though.

The fact that you've saved that much is so impressive.

>> Yes. Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for the call.

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All right, we've got Susan on the line.

She's in Seattle, Washington. Hi, Susan.

Thanks for joining us. How can we help today? >> Hey, thanks for taking my call. So, I'm

kind of at a loss. Um, the man I

married, we we've known each other four and a half years, and we got married four months before he passed away. Oh my

gosh, Susan.

>> Um, anyway, I've always had a soft landing in my life and there's always been somebody.

Well, this is the first time. And again, there's a little bit of a soft landing.

He he left a little life insurance. Um, I've I've sold a lot of um assets that I have and it's helped. Um, I am self-employed, but I what I found myself and I went through a grief uh support group thing and one of the things they talked about was grief spending.

>> I'm like, oh, that's not me. Sure enough. Um, it was about four weeks ago

I realized, oh my gosh, I'm I'm a grief

spender. >> I mean, I was just going over my numbers since he passed in August. Um, and since

September, over my budget, I have spent $33,800.

Now, some of that was on tires for the car and um, you know, oil change and stuff, but um, the majority of that has

just been on memberships, house cleaners, gardeners, um, handymen, and

dog stuff, and just stuff I don't need or didn't need to to buy buy. And every

time, and I just empathize with myself when I would click that little buy button. >> Yeah. >> On Amazon, >> it was um >> Oh my gosh. >> Are you using the insurance money for this or is this something you're going into debt to?

>> No, fortunately, no. I'm not going into debt. So, I currently right now in savings. I'm down to 20,000 and three

months ago there was 57,000 in there.

>> Okay. Some of that I've been using to live on. I I need um two grand a month to live on in my house. My business requires two grand and it's sustaining on its own. So, I'm not worried about that. But I do need my business to kick it up a notch so that it can support my business and me. But that's that's going to take time because when he got sick, I did back off um clientele, etc.

>> The 2,000 a month you live on, what's that cover? Do you live someplace where there's no mortgage or tell us more about that? >> I rent. It's a rent and that's utilities. Rent is 1450 and it's gas, lights, um, trash, water, and internet.

>> Okay. And that's going to be gone in 10 months.

>> Well, yeah, if I keep going in the way I'm going. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, I am getting u more inheritance next

week. There there's another heritance check coming. How much? That'll boost that 20 up to 50,000. It'll be 30,000.

And then there is another

uh probably 25,000 in assets that I need to sell.

>> Okay. >> Um that I haven't gotten to yet. I'm working on it. It's just there's just an awful lot to navigate. Yeah.

>> And then um >> and then there's another pension of his that I haven't applied for yet and that's about 18,000. And so when all said and done, if I spend no more out of the savings, >> in about a month, I should be 95,000 in that account. >> Okay. >> Yeah.

>> So, are you do you feel like the the counseling is helping with the grief spending now that you've kind of pinpointed it? Because sometimes part of the problem is like realizing, oh gosh, that's me.

>> Yeah. I finished the grief counseling back in December, and I didn't realize my problem until about three weeks ago.

>> Okay. >> Now, back in September, a friend was booking a cruise. I said, "Sure, I'll book that cruise with you for February." So, two weeks ago, I went on a oneweek cruise. It was 500 bucks. I say it was only 500 bucks. Yeah, that's not bad for a nice, you know, balcony stateateroom, but I didn't calculate the $100 parking fee and the $400 I had to board my dogs.

>> Yeah. >> Plus, I spent another probably five or $600 on luggage and clothes.

>> None of that was in my purview back in September when I booked. >> Sure. Sure. Yeah. Those plan for it.

>> Yeah. They don't Yeah, they sneak up.

>> Susan, go ahead. Well, I was going to say first I would give yourself some grace because I do think when you're in a season especially of grief um our

bodies we're looking for a way to cope, right? And if we're not aware about or

not intentional about it, it can go we can start medicating sideways, right?

Whether it's >> drinking, gambling, shopping, like whatever we're doing to have a level of stability, we search out for. Um, so I

don't want to fault you for that cuz I think you know that's a it's a that's a common >> very normal. >> Yes. So now I think the fact that you've realized it now we can put some things in place to help with it to actually create some friction between you and buying things. So I would do you know from a low level I would delete Amazon Prime. I would not have my card saved on

any website to make it an easy purchase.

I would take off Apple Pay off of your phone. Like put some actual logistical

friction between you and and spending any money. Okay, that's like one thing you can do. Um, another thing that when

you're coming off of, and I wouldn't say that you're necessarily are addicted to spending, but a lot of people, especially in 12step, they say to redirect where you would normally go and spend or normally go and get a drink.

Um, instead do something helpful, right?

When you feel the need to spend, go for a walk. When you feel the need to spend, have that friend that you call and you tell her, "I'm going to call you every time I'm tempted." Right? It's this redirection of your actions that

actually can be very helpful because you almost train your train yourself to have

a new set of habits. Um, so yeah, that

that those are a couple of just things I would probably I would start today. And then of course the budget and kind of the working with still you know yourself

um I think is still big.

>> Yeah. I think in this call I would tend to air on the side that what Rachel said is probably the the bigger and the biggest part of this because until until you can get that piece in alignment.

Anything else that we teach you is not going to hold right because you need to have that self-control that's built in.

Um, but once you do have that, yeah, there's the practical side of making sure you are in a budget like every dollar and we'll make sure that you get that before we hang up this call. But, uh, >> we have it and I have created the budget, it it's easy to pay my bills.

>> Good. Good. And then >> the discipline of learning how to be really detailed when new things pop up is something that is a muscle I think that builds over time to just think through every aspect of what you might spend money on. But my biggest question um besides these lump sums of money that's coming is what's your monthtomonth?

How are you how how much money do you earn coming in monthtomonth? >> Right now I'm earning in my business about two grand just enough to cover the expenses of my business.

>> So it's not whatever. >> It's not actually profit. It's having to be right reinvested right back into the business to keep it going. So, I would say that I'm concerned about that. Um, and that would be along with what Rachel said, creating the friction. My my number two piece of homework for you would be figuring out what earning an income looks like for you. How long have you had this business?

>> Uh, five years. And it was doing really well. Um, >> what caused it to decline?

>> My husband's sickness and me stopping stepping back. >> Okay. Okay. >> Do you have a timeline, Susan? realistic timeline and when you think it's going to start actually creating a profit. Is it going to be like another year? Is it going to be three months? >> No, it's it's actually starting to build back up again. >> What What kind of business is it?

>> Um I'm a transformational trauma coach.

>> Okay. >> And I'm pretty elite in the area I live.

>> Okay. >> Um so I'm pretty well known and it is lucrative. Um I mean

>> so it's in the client bag >> but like 24 and I had my husband's

income as well. Uh in 2024 we were doing

close to 100,000 that year and we live in a small town. So >> how much were you making out of that?

>> Um about 52.

>> Okay. So, if you could get back clientele wise >> to that 52, that would you could sustain on that. >> And I I like that for you. In the meantime, honestly, I'd pick up a side hustle because when you have too much time to sit at home, I know when I'm at home, Rachel, and my eyes just look at the walls.

I go, "Oh, it'd be nice to get something new for that wall. Oh, I need a new bedspread. Oh, like when I'm not doing enough with my time, I tend to spend more money." And I think a lot of us are like that cuz you're bored and you're looking for release.

So, it's going to kill two birds with one stone to get out there, get a side hustle until this business is producing and do what Rachel said, put some friction in place.

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to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramissysolutions.com/taxpro.

One of our favorite things is when people share their stories of how they're winning. and we just got this amazing review of our Every Dollar app.

She says, "I love this app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband. We have implemented this practice since our wedding day and we've had zero money fights because there is full transparency and we're on the same page.

Love that. That's amazing. Hey, you can do it, too. You can take control of your money and you can change your family tree. You can live like no one else. Go download our Every Dollar Budget app for free in the App Store or Google Play." Alrighty then. Stephen is in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey, Stephen. How can we help today?

>> Hi, I'm do I was doing the baby steps and I'm finally at that uh pay off a mortgage step. I found you guys last year through a guy at work.

>> Um I've been messing up and I've been putting money towards my escrow.

>> Is there a really good way to attack a mortgage? Because I love to be paid off in about five years. Yeah. >> Or sooner. >> I mean, the best way is to pay extra payments. So, you pay your normal uh payment that's due that satisfies the interest and then after that's free and clear, then you can go back and put extra payments and put them directly onto the principal. And that truly is the best way to do it over time.

>> Okay. So, when you do the um when you say pay on the principal for the mortgage payment, are you talking about like the lump sum I pay every month or is it actually like a certain mortgage payment? So, um, your mortgage payment, the the payment that you pay every month, it's probably comprised of a couple elements. There is the actual loan balance, what you owe for the home,

and then you probably have some insurance that's built in there, some taxes that are built in there. Um, right, HOA, sometimes that's built in.

So, your payment is going to all those different places when you pay your monthly payment, interest, all of that.

So after you've paid that monthly payment, you've satisfied the interest, you've satisfied the taxes, anything else that's built in. Now any extra money that you apply, it's going to go directly to the loan balance, which we would call the principal. So it's going to go straight to that. And that way it's like a pure it's pure money go.

So if you pay $500, it's going to lower your balance by five, you know, it's going to lower it by that much because it's already it's on top of your normal payment. And a lot of times >> that's what I thought I was doing, but it was actually just sitting in my escrow and then I got a check for the the remainder. >> So what I would do is you can either call it in and tell them. I know on mine you could go in and you can actually decipher if it's going to be a normal payment or if it's going to be a principal only payment.

It actually has the option.

And if you're doing it, uh, you kind of

have to make sure for the month you've already satisfied the payment for the month or else it'll go towards your monthly. It'll go towards your normally monthly payment. Does that make sense?

>> No, I have no problem with that. I usually pay a little early and then what I have at the end of the month is what I try to put on extra. >> Yeah. >> So, after everything was like all my bills are set and paid, it's I throw whatever I have left over just right in there.

I kind of have like a a free account type of thing. >> Yeah. after everything goes through the budget. >> Um, is there a good strategy on how to pay it?

Like try to do like two, three extra mortgage payments and try to kick it down or is it just throw anything and any extra that you have at it >> as much as you can within, you know, what what makes reasonable sense for you. So, we always teach that, you know, when you do the first three baby steps, you're very intense. Everything is as fast as possible. You sacrifice everything, you know, in order to do this quickly.

But then when you move into baby steps four, five, and six, you're moving into a season of intentionality, which is I don't have to be like, you know, balls to the wall, but I do want to be thoughtful about am I intentionally putting extra towards this? And that really is up to you. If you're in a season that you want to go really fast, that's fine. Or you you know what I find, Rachel, is that there are seasons where you're very, >> you know, gung-ho about it, and then there's seasons where you're like, you know what, I'm going to renovate that bathroom.

And so maybe you pull back a little bit, but you're still putting something extra. And so it kind of es and flows, but the point is that you're always doing something and that you have a plan for what that looks like.

>> And I'm sure you've run numbers, Stephen, right? I mean, people do like Excel forms or a mortgage calculator, and you can watch that as that principle

goes down. >> I just learned about that from Dave.

>> Okay, good. >> Like I said, I'm new to this and I just did my mortgage calculator thingy. So, I'm hoping to be paid. Like I said, I just refinanced for a 15 year.

>> Oh, good for you. Yeah.

>> I was I had horrible credit and everything like that when I first did this. So, my interest rate was high.

>> Okay. >> So, >> good >> with doing everything. I was so scared because paying off everything.

Obviously, my credit score dropped. So, they had to do the underwriting thing that you guys talked about, >> but they did it. But >> that's awesome. >> Yeah. Well, a 15year and I just really

want to pay it off. >> Yes. Well, for a lot of people when you start to see those numbers and what's crazy is even I don't remember the math, but we did this at a live event recently. It was like uh four extra mortgage payments a year and how quickly

that takes off what what it does on the principal and how much I mean how much interest you save. Tens of thousands if not even hundreds of thousands of dollars of interest. Like it is it is wild um what even just a little bit will do. Do you know what I mean?

That's what's so encouraging about it is when you start plugging in your numbers, you're like, "Oh my gosh, like this goes a really long way." And a lot of people that are doing the baby steps, they pay their houses off in 7 to 10 years. Um, so yeah, you may be faster than that, Stephen. Um, or you may be right around that, but I think, uh, when you at least have the mindset that you want to pay off your house, it happens faster than just settling and saying, "I'll have a mortgage for 30 years or 15 years." >> Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Just by doing four extra principal payments. >> Does it say 15? >> Uh-huh. Uh on a 15year, it could shrink it to around 10 to 11 years. So, that is

major. >> That's just five years. Yeah. Just a few extra mortgage payments. So, if you did that >> six times a year, right? Like it starts to just shrink so quickly. That's what's wild about it. >> Yeah. It's really, really crazy. Yeah.

If you, you know, spent the average right now, which is around 400,000 on a mortgage, the normal terms, Yeah. on a 30-year, you would save potentially $200,000 in interest simply by doing that.

>> Yeah. So, if you've not ever played around with these numbers, you can get yourself like you can go down a rabbit hole of just like like really realizing

>> and that's money back in your pocket. Hundreds of thousand dollars that's not going to interest. It's you. It's for you. Yes. You save that. It's amazing.

And can we just say that for a minute?

Sometimes when you're playing when you're talking about numbers like this and they feel like they're out in the future, it can feel like it doesn't matter, but it does. These are real

dollars that you are paying.

>> Real dollars. $200,000 come from your money.

>> And so just really take some time and think about that. It can feel almost like it's not us, >> but it is. It is real money. All right.

Very, very good. Let's go to Holly in Sacramento, California. Holly, you're up. How can we help today?

>> Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. I have a two-part question.

>> Uh the first one, I'm a single teacher mom. I make 114,000 a year. I have life

insurance through work at 300,000.

And I'm just wondering if I need extra term life insurance on top of that.

>> Yes, I would. We say 10 to 12 times your annual income. So, I would put more like a million. have a million- dollar policy. >> Yeah. >> A million. Okay.

>> Yes. And hopefully you can get it.

Hopefully, you know, and you can supplement it if you want to keep the work one. I'd be okay with that if you got a 700,000 >> um term life. And it shouldn't be too expensive if you're, you know, healthy and all the things. So, um yeah, but that's what I would I would have that to supplement.

>> Yeah. And you can get that through Xander. You can hop on and they'll get you set up. It's really easy now.

I mean, they'll even come to your house and everything like that. Yeah. It's great. >> Okay.

And my other question is, I recently paid off my car and one other large debt I'm working on.

>> Thank you. I'm working on paying off my helock loan and it's at 20,000 right now. Um, I'm paying $1,000 a month and

I'm just curious, you know, what should my next steps be in order to continue to

support my child? Um, I have more than a,000 in my emergency fund. I'm nervous

about putting it down to a thousand.

Yeah. >> How much is in your emergency fund?

>> I have 6,000 right now. >> 6,000. Okay. And you're paying an extra,000. So on track, you know, year

and a half or so, you'll have that heliloc paid off.

>> Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. I mean, I would say if there's uh I mean, that's a great I mean, to be a single mom working um >> Yeah. There's a different level of stress there. >> Yeah. You're doing I think you're doing great. Uh, Holly, if there's anything extra that you can put towards it at any capacity, obviously the faster the better. Um, but you're killing it, girl.

I mean, yeah, I think you're doing great. >> Yeah, I think you're going to feel the motivation on your own to find ways to get more and more income going towards that and it's going to be knocked out before you know it.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramiesolutions.com.

All right, our Ramsey show scripture and quote of the day. Proverbs 3:es 5-6.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding.

In all your ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths. Dolly Parton said, "If you don't like the road you're walking, start paving another one." >> Oh, >> pretty good. Pretty good >> classic >> man. I feel like I'm walking on air after James gave us that >> really nice encouragement. James, I don't know how to act. And then we got Dolly Parton and Proverbs. Just >> we're gonna end the show. Well, >> I know. I wanted him to come on. He didn't. All right. Curtis is in Richmond, Virginia. What's up, Curtis?

>> Hi. How are you ladies doing this afternoon? >> Excellent. How can we help?

>> Well, let me start by 2025 was a really bad year for me.

>> I'm sorry. >> Um, in May, I lost my wife.

>> Oh, >> um, December, I lost my dad. I had been his

caregiver for a few years.

Um, when I

when I needed to become his caregiver, I left my job because I was getting a stipen to take help take care of him.

>> Mhm. >> Uh, plus my wife had a very good job,

and it was her idea for me to bring him

into the house, help take care of him,

do what needed to be done because that's what I felt like I was led to do.

>> Sure.

Um, fast forward to now, the savings that I

had um between my wife's passing and now my

dad's um has been eaten up by going back and

forth to the hospital.

>> Yeah. the funeral expenses, trying to catch up on bills, and I have found myself to be about $13,000 in

debt.

Um, and that's after paying down almost

$70,000. >> Wow. And >> okay, >> I have no job now.

>> And I'm trying to find one, but I have found it very difficult.

>> Yeah. What's your field like? What's your expertise, Curtis?

>> Well, I was military to begin with. Um,

and prior to that, I was in sales.

>> Okay. And how long were you out of the workforce? Um, taking care of your dad?

How many years?

>> Eight years. >> Oh, okay. A while. >> Okay. Yeah. That How old are you? >> Significant.

>> 49. >> 49. Okay.

>> Okay. So, there's no, just to get a better picture, there's no savings anywhere to speak of. Do you have anything that was put away while you were in the military? Um, anything like that?

>> No, I've blown through all of it.

>> Okay. >> See, dad dad ended up with dementia um

with Alzheimer's. >> Okay. I'm sorry. Sorry.

>> And Trish, it was unexpected. Uh, she

passed with a massive heart attack.

>> Oh my gosh, Curtis.

>> Oh, I'm so sorry. >> This is really tough. Yeah, it was a really hard year. >> I'm trying to stay positive.

I'm trying to to >> put it in God's hands because that's what need me to do. >> It's also grieving the life that you thought you were going to have for the next 30 years. You know, I mean, it's life looks completely different. And as Dr.

start rewriting your story and and you

know the hard thing is is you know you're 49 and so it's hard because you you you have a long life ahead of you and it's also a positive thing because I think you can make some incredible changes and start you know it's a new

life that you have to look at, right?

It's not even rebuilding the life that you had. It is >> um it's it's looking ahead and saying there's going to be a new Curtis and what do I have to do now for myself to not only sustain, but what's good for me? and finding some some positive small

wins in the midst of this grief um is not only going to help you financially, Curtis, but I also think in who you are and kind of going back to yeah, finding finding a new purpose and how to contribute to the world and that's that's a hard a hard thing to do. Um, I

do know at the end of the call though we will um give you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do because there's still a whole second chapter, Curtis, of your life to be to be written, you know. >> Yeah, I agree. This is kind of like a a ren this like a rebirth for you >> and in many ways that can be scary and daunting, but in other ways it can be really interesting and can be exciting after enough time passes and you can see it as an opportunity to start something fresh and new.

And I actually think that that might end up being the case career-wise. So, I'd be sitting some time spending some time thinking about if I could do anything, and I know when Ken coaches people, he kind of starts with that. If I could do anything, what would it be? And then kind of just run that down.

And that would kind of be if I were in your shoes, I think that that would be a journal prompt for me every day is if I could do anything I wanted to do today with my career, with my talents, what would it be? And I would just spend time thinking about that because I think sometimes in life we don't give oursel there's always something going on and we do what we have to do. We do what we need to do but very rarely do we always do the things that we want to do.

Um and I think it's just going to take time. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But anything that you can do today to start bringing

in an income and it of course won't be your dream job but I think getting up

having a routine having a schedule

having something that you're doing I think does start to you know re-energize

you and there's a level of dignity that's there and getting a paycheck and actually start seeing progress in some part of life and this would be the more financial side part but um but it can be powerful when you start actually getting up and and doing something because it could be so easy just to not because you've been through so much. Um, >> and don't hesitate to call us. Call us back if you feel like you're getting that traction and then you're saying, "Okay, I'm making this money now. What do I do with it?" The good news is 13,000 in debt.

You know, once you start having any income come in, you're going to realize, "Oh, I can knock that out fairly fairly quickly." And um, I have no no doubt that you're going to do that. I just think the fog needs to clear a little bit more for you to get your bearings in this. Thank you for the call. All right, let's go straight to Nicole in Louisville, Kentucky.

Nicole, we're right up against the clock. How can we help today? >> Okay, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, I am in my early 40s and my husband is in his early 50s.

Wow. >> We have found a place that we want to move to. Um, but we want to rent there first before we sell our current home.

We are debtree except for that mortgage.

We do have some older kids who are currently renting and since we have family nearby who could also support them, we want to know if renting our house to them would be wise.

>> Uh, probably not because you guys will probably sell it in a year, right? If you're wanting to keep it just for a short term till you find a house that you guys want to buy in a new location, right?

If the new location is as much of a fit as we hope it is, yes.

>> Okay. But if it's not, you'll come back home and want to live in the house that you're in. Is that what you're saying?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> It's hard to give up the interest rate that we have until we know we have to.

>> Oh, okay. Interesting. What type I mean,

what would you do for work? Are your jobs, you know, >> our jobs are remote, so we can Yes, we can do the exact same things we're doing now there. >> Okay. Would you guys be able to support

>> um the rents of the new place and then

for some reason if something goes haywire with family? Are you I mean, is that does that put you in a financial bind?

>> I don't think so. We've tried to use the 25% of our income to say like what could

we afford in rent plus covering the mortgage if we had to. But of course, you know, anybody helping cover the mortgage while we're gone would help. >> I I normally am not a fan of that. But if since it's still a question mark of if you're going to stay in the new location, >> um I would be okay with you keeping it and doing a one-year very clearly communicated a oneyear rent agreement to people you know. Yes.

>> Uh which means that that can go haywire.

That's why I want a lot of margin with you financially cuz I don't want this to ruin any kind of relationship and make it weird. But um but yep, if you have that one year and then you guys if you want to stay in the new location, that house, you need to sell it, Nicole. I don't care what the interest rate is. You need to sell it and move your life to the new or if the new location didn't work out, then you move back home.

But I would just do it for one calendar year and that's it. >> Yeah, I like that idea. And it's good that you have the kids because they seem like they'd be just the right person to rent the house. Uh, thank you for the call.

All right, guys. Thanks for hanging out with us.

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## 35. Discipline Today Creates Freedom Tomorrow | November 12, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broken, common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. The phone number to jump in is 888 825-5225.

Alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. We're here together. She's going to help you save uh and spend the

money. I'm going to help you make more money. That's my role here on the Ramsey Show. Got to remind people from time to time. >> that. >> to help you win at work. Two ways to win with money. We're going to make sure we're controlling the outflow and we want to get more inflow, if you will.

So, there it is. That's how we tag team.

We start off with Bill, who is joining us in New Jersey. Bill, how can we help today?

Hi guys, how are you doing today?

>> We're doing well. What's going on?

So, yeah, I'm calling cuz I'm in a bit of a situation here uh with some college

uh loans that I have. Some uh student loans that are uh they're parent plus loans though, so they're under my father's name and uh but I'm the one uh

paying them. Um They're about uh three different loans.

They total to about 70K in total between

the three. Uh and they have about 7% interest rate.

At the moment, I've been paying about uh 450 a month on them, but I just did the

calculations and with the interest rate, it doesn't look like I'm going to be paying them off anytime soon with that.

>> Nope. Uh so I was just looking for some guidance there on what to what to do.

>> All right, so >> have some other debts as well.

>> Obvious question, these are these loans your dad took out were for your education. True or false?

True. Okay. And what are you doing for a living?

Uh at the moment I'm a manager at a Jersey Mike's. I actually ended up uh dropping out of it during COVID.

Uh they wanted me to pay full tuition for online classes and I was not about that. And what were you in school to do?

Um originally I was a biochem major and I was planning on a pre-med track, but uh that first year I really did not enjoy it and I decided, all right, I'm not going to want to do this the rest of my life. Uh happy I got out then instead of

going into more debt for medical school.

Um and then, you know, I was kind of in like an in-between area and then we all got sent home and, you know, I didn't end up picking anything.

So, what do you what are you making now at Jersey Mike's?

I make about uh 90K a year. Okay, and that's a management position?

Yes. >> Okay. Do you have any other ideas for your future?

Uh I would like to go into franchising and continue with the quick service Okay, so you found your spot. >> That's cool. That's great. >> Yeah. No, I love it. I came back after over COVID, fell in love, realized this is what I want to do. Okay, great. That checks that box and now we can we bring Jade in here and we start going, okay, let's knock this out. Let's get her the full picture. Beyond the 70,000 in over

three student loans, what other debt do you have? Give us the full picture.

So, I have about 4,500 on a credit card. Uh I've been

pretty aggressively or trying to aggressively paying that off at the moment. Um I do also have uh 3,000 left on a car

loan. Okay. Um and I also have uh 9,000

uh of my own student loans as well in my

name. >> what was the deal on the student loans?

Did you know from the beginning that you were going to be on the hook for those parent plus loans even though it was just your dad's name uh on the note? I

did not know they existed. Oh.

How did you find out?

>> um because my uncle is a co-signer on

them and so I was paying the ones that were in my name and I was doing that all actually started paying them early before I even had to uh cuz I did not want them gaining more interest and, you know, So, it was your uncle and your dad your uncle and your dad took these out?

Yeah, so my dad took them out and my uncle had to co-sign on those loans for them. How did you think education was being paid for? When you were showing up for class, in your mind, how was it being paid for?

So, I knew I did have some loans, but uh when I was filling out the like FAFSA and doing that stuff with my dad, I was under the impression that I had like grants and that it was uh you know, that I had gotten from like assistance from the school.

So, you thought the 9,000 You thought the 9,000 was it and everything else was grants and and help. So, the 9,000 is what's left. It was originally uh 20,

but I've paid it down to nine so far.

So, um how did it come to be that you're paying for loans that you didn't even know were being taken out? How did that happen? Did your uncle call you up? Dad call?

>> Yeah, I got an email from my uncle saying uh you know, like, "Hey, why haven't you been paying your student loans?" And I was very taken aback cuz I was like, I I have been. Like, I started doing it early. I don't know what you're talking about. I showed them my loans as well and then, you know, he pulled up what he had and he showed me, "No, they're past due.

Like, I don't know what your Listen. >> is." And then we figured it out and then my father finally was like, "Oh, yeah, like I had to do that." Listen, I I I'm not in the business of uh splitting up families or, you know, trying to cause drama between families.

this is so messed up. >> Mhm. >> It's really messed up. >> way of saying it. >> Yeah, it is. And I I want to know. Tell me but it might not be as messed up if I hear your side of it. In your mind, are you like, "This is my responsibility.

I'm happy to pay it. It was my education. It makes sense to me. Jade, I'm cool." Or is this something that causes you a bit of resentment and anger and is it problematic for you emotionally?

Half and half. I'm not really not going to let it get in the in-between my relationship with me and my father in any means. He's been a great dad, you know. Uh nothing like that. I was definitely a little frustrated with him cuz uh about 2 years ago, I was uh looking to move out. Um and I did end up moving out, but before I did, a similar situation happened with my brother as well, where he had student loans that he was not aware of. Uh that my father did also

take out. I don't know if they were under his name or under my brother's name in that situation, but uh you know,

I just remember him being pretty upset not knowing about those. Yeah.

>> Um so before I moved out, I went to my father and asked him. I was like, "Hey, do I have any other student loans that I'm not aware of that I should be paying right now before I move out?" Cuz if I did know that I had this 70K, I I probably would not have moved out when I did. I would have stayed home and tried to put more of my uh resources towards

these to get them paid down. Um >> And how long after the fact How long after the fact that they were due did you find out about them? Cuz, you know, after 6 months they become due upon graduation. So, how long >> was there was some uh for like uh I

forget what it was called, but they they were like pushed back delayed because of COVID and there was a lot of stuff there. >> But and you didn't know all that time.

All that time that you could have been paying them off interest free, you didn't know about them.

I did not know about them. >> you, I'm going to be I'm going to be flat out honest with you. I love relationships. I love that you are honoring your parents. This is bothering me. Um now, if you tell me this is your life, so you can decide. If you tell me, "Jade, I'm just going to go ahead and pay it. Can you please move on with the advice?" Fine. The advice would be for me uh you need to take all the debts, uh

credit cards, car, student loans, list them smallest to largest. Based on what you told me, we need to be tackling the car first. All your extra money after you've paid minimum payments, all the extra needs to go on that car, knock it out fast, and then next would be the credit cards, next would be the student loan, and then you'd start tackling the $70,000 student loan in chunks. But if it were me, I'd be having a serious conversation and at the very least, I'd

say, "I'm paying half of this because I didn't know about it and I hadn't opportunity to take care of it when there was no interest and you didn't do me the service of even telling me about it. So, you're on you're on the hook for half and it's not in your name." I agree. Well said. Amen. Pass the plates. [Music]

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[Music]

Jenny is up next in Atlanta, Georgia.

Jenny, how can we help today?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. I'm a little nervous. You're doing great. We're going to take good care of you. Thank you. Um my husband and I are getting a late start. We don't have any retirement. We don't have a house. I'm 45, he's 51. We have debt. We want to

know like what we can do to catch up.

He's not as gung-ho as I am, but he's getting there. He kind of kept the debt from me and we're trying to live correct right now in every area possible. Um we have counseling we're paying for because of trauma we've been through. I'm working three jobs, he's working two.

Um so it's just kind of a lot right now.

Okay. So it sounds like we're getting very busy. Sounds like you guys are trying to make more money and come after this, correct?

Yes, we've been trying for the last few months. Um he kind of was doing it on his own and when I kind of found out more about it, he um like we got kind of more aggressive about it. >> the debt? What was the debt that he kept from you?

Um we have about like 30,000 debt plus

the cars go 50.

Um and I knew we had like a little bit, but I never knew how much. He just always told me he was taking care of it and Yes, but what I'm asking, what was the debt? Obviously the cars you probably knew about, but what was the other debt that you didn't know anything about?

We have a debt consolidation loan and there was some credit card.

Um my insurance isn't good, so we've had some medical debt.

Um we have IRS that we have to pay. So it

wasn't I'm just trying to get a a read on this. It wasn't what we call financial infidelity where he was hiding all kinds of expenditures.

You just weren't paying attention and you guys kind of got behind the eight ball and then he tried to consolidate.

I'm just trying to get an understanding of when you say I didn't know about it,

where are you guys emotionally on this deal? Where where does it stand?

Yeah, it wasn't like he was out spending stuff per se, but like a lot of restaurants and stores and nothing like major, but things like that. And I just

um felt like I was supposed to be this submissive wife and not really involved in the money. And I had like the wrong mindset and now that I do, we're trying to do it right, but it's really hard to break the habit like Got it. you know, to not go to restaurants and things like that. Okay.

And so one other question here and cuz Jade's going to jump in, but I'm just kind of gathering some facts.

Sure. So you guys have tried, he's tried

on his own. Now he makes you aware of it. Now you're going, okay, gosh, we don't like the way this feels. We're going after this. But you started the call by saying, I'm ready to go all in.

I'm calling the Ramsey show today. He's sort of kind of not there. What is he not on board? I I just that'll help us.

Where is he not on board with where you are? I mean, he is mostly, but like I'm trying to live for the Lord. I mean, we're both trying to live for the Lord in every way possible and just money's kind of not his focus right now. He's trying to get like healed in other ways.

Got it. Is this a priority right now?

Let me You're you're kind of talking a little bit in riddles.

And I think it's because you're you're trying to protect in like delicate information it seems like, but I want to ask you, is money the most important thing you need to be like is is walking the baby steps the most important thing you need to be worried about right now or are there other fires that are more important that need to be put out?

I mean, I guess I got kind of want to do both. Like we're trying to get our money right, but we're trying to get everything else right in our life at the same time. And like I know counseling is a huge priority for us that I don't want to give up. All right. So how much are we spending on that a month?

Like a thousand dollars because it's for me and my husband and my daughter. Okay, great. Great, but that gives us something to work with. So we've got a thousand dollars a month, Jade, that we want to protect at all costs. And I love that. Yeah. Okay. Um I I asked that

question because it money is important. Like Ken, you already know. It touches everything, Jenny, and you can see this. It touches your relationships, your job, your spirituality, all of it, right? It's all encompassing. Um that being said, sometimes uh in an attempt to not focus on other things, we focus on the baby steps, being intense about that. This is the thing I'm going to focus on when really your marriage is falling apart, right? And so what I don't want you to do is focus on the wrong thing. Yep.

If what you're telling me is Jade, we want to do it. We just I just simply want to know is it okay for me to keep a thousand dollars aside for counseling?

Yeah, the answer is yes. You have to be a well person. That's like me telling you that walking the baby steps is not an excuse to eat ramen noodles. Like you need to be healthy.

You need to do this the right way. So um >> know why you had to single out ramen noodles, but we'll talk about that later. The sodium alone, Ken. So yeah, let's walk through the numbers.

A thousand dollars on counseling, I'm fine with that. Tell me what you guys bring in a month and then we can talk about what's going to feel realistic for you in this season when you're so heavily getting the mental health that you guys all need. Thank you. Um we bring in about 7,500 a month.

Okay, 7,500 a month.

1,900. Okay, great. Okay, so

biggest expenses, 1,900 on rent, thousand dollars on counseling.

Uh any daycare or anything like like that I need to know about? Like high dollar stuff.

>> Yeah, my daughter's tuition is $300.

I'm on a medicine that's $550,

but I donate plasma, so I mainly pay for that out of that money. Okay, so that's kind of a wash on the on the on the 550.

Okay, so I'm looking at this and I'm going, okay, I'm seeing I'm seeing $3,200 that's going away in must-haves. What's happening to the other 3,700?

Um paying off debt, groceries,

you know, just different bills like that. I feel like And when you put all that in your budget, how much how much are you putting extra on the debt? Not

minimum payments, but above and beyond the minimum payment. How much are you putting extra?

I mean, we're trying to, but we don't have like a set number. It's just kind of like whatever we have left over, we do. Okay, so that's what we'll fix That's what we'll fix today because if you guys are on fixed, you know, you get basically paid the same amount every two weeks or every month, whatever what have you, then this should be like clockwork.

So what I need is for you guys to get on an every dollar budget and if you don't have one, do you have one?

Yeah, I do have the every dollar. Okay, so when you open up every dollar, it should be really cut and dry for you, Jenny, to be able to see, okay, we make 7,500, 1,900 goes to rent, a thousand to counseling, 300 to school, because of my plasma, we only pay a hundred dollars for the medication, right? All of that's in the budget and then it's going to show you after all the things that must be done, gas, groceries, insurance, there's going to be a number up there. In your case, it should be in the green of extra money that it is now Okay, what do we want to do with this money?

And here's the thing, Jenny, the choices are we can put this extra money towards DoorDash, we can put this extra money towards a vacation that we want to go on, we can put this extra money towards a slush fund that just gets eaten away with by going to the gas station and gets eaten away with by running to Sonic, right? Or we can say, at the end of every month we have $1,300 and that is going on the smallest debt every month, no matter what, like clockwork. Do you see what I'm saying? >> Yeah.

Right? And that's what I'm trying to do. It's just, you know, getting there, I guess, is hard. >> And you tell me, tell me tell me the emotion the emotion that you feel when

you know the money is there, but you do something else. Is it I work really hard, I I just deserve this? Is it I'm just so tired? Is it I'm frustrated?

Tell me what you're feeling that's causing you not to do the thing.

I guess frustrated. I know restaurants is really like our weakness and like we say we're not going to go and then we go and just, you know, changing and living that new lifestyle is pretty hard and I think it's >> getting to that point. I want to know why I think it is just listening to you.

I think you're scared.

I think you're afraid. I think you've seen life one way and the idea of it looking different scares you. Well, yeah, I agree with that and I I also would say that now hearing what we know, I think it's hard enough going through therapy, trying to change our life, deal with the trauma, whatever it hurt is attached to all this. Can we reset our family? And that enough that on its own is exhausting. >> Yeah, it's And I think it's hard to go, come on, babe, you need to join me on this debt-free journey, too.

So I do think it is fear of the confrontation and how exhausting it is, but I do think that I would take this to the therapist and go, hey, did a phone call, we're trying to do this money thing. Can you coach us in this therapy about how important is it we get on the same page there? I would take it to the professional help. Love that you're spending a thousand dollars a month, but you guys have got to lean in on every issue. Take take that and use that

$1,000 and it's going to benefit.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, folks. It's the most wonderful time of the year. Can you believe that? Talking about it now. It feels like it's getting earlier and earlier. >> It is. I put up my tree, did you? Oh, yeah. >> Trees. Oh, yeah. Trees. And by the way, the weekend after Halloween.

Yeah. >> Mrs. Coleman said, "Head on up to the attic area." >> That's right. That's That's the job.

>> way, if you see me and I look a little stiff today on camera, it's because pulled a muscle on the right upper side of the old back trying to yank it out of the attic. >> heave a Christmas tree box.

And I'm thinking to myself, I have a strong young man who's 17 years of age.

Why didn't I wait for him? >> This is your plight in life, Ken. He'll have his time. I know. He'll have his time. >> I just wanted to get it over with, and you learn a lesson.

Uh the Ramsey Christmas deals are here.

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$7.99 audiobooks and ebooks, $20 assessments. Hello, the old get clear assessments in there.

>> And uh I would love for you all to get the uh get clear career assessment. It'll help you. Mhm. And uh my kids need new shoes.

Especially in the but in the new year to know where you're where you want to go with your life and >> Yeah, that's a far more redeeming reason. I was just just blatantly saying, "Hey, I I Yeah, I got kids in college." >> back care. I got back Yeah, I'm going to need to go see the chiropractor. Uh but hey, you can get all the great deals at ramseysolutions.com/store or ramseysolutions.com/store or if you're on YouTube or podcast, you can click on the link in the show notes.

John is up in Colorado.

Hey, um very glad I got to you today, Ken, and you, Ms. Warshaw. Thank you.

>> But, it's a career

question that I had. Okay. Um so, I currently work for the state of Colorado. Um it's a relatively safe um

job, as you can imagine with the government, but we've seen lately that that may not be the case. But anyway, um it's a relatively safe job. I

absolutely love what I do. It gives me the ability to do some other side gigs and authorship of some books I write.

Um so, I have a pretty good life, a good

career. I love what I do.

But, there's always a looming question of um should I go into the private sector again and possibly make a quite a significant amount more. Um so, I guess it's a question of do I continue to sacrifice enjoyment and

um safety over, you know, trying to put myself better ahead from, you know, more

financially.

That's kind of what the gist of my question is. Okay, appreciate that.

Let's Let's break this down a little bit more cuz I don't think I don't think you've got the proper context for your choice. But let's see. I I could be wrong. So, what do you make in the government job there in Colorado? Is it By the way, is it a federal government job or a Colorado state?

State. Okay, state job. All right, what do you make?

Uh 120. And what do you What would you say you do? I don't care so much about your title. What do you do?

>> Oh, it's okay. Yeah, no, I'm a I'm a land surveyor. So,

I work for the Department of Transportation and I, you know, do land surveying for Okay. new construction roads or improvements. What do you love most about that work?

Or what do you enjoy most about it?

The people I work with, it's considered,

you know, a very good land surveying job. I'm I'm doing land survey work. I'm not doing >> I I get it, but you're going off the I want you to answer me very literally.

I'm going somewhere to answer your question. So, I asked you, what do you enjoy most about the work? And you said, "The people." That's a perfectly fine answer.

Anything else that meets the enjoy description?

About the work itself. Don't give me it's safe.

>> Okay, outside. Great.

What else?

Um the projects are pretty cool. You know, I get to help help the public. It feels

like I'm a truly a public servant.

>> great. Good answers. All right.

So, um you mentioned that you believe,

which leads me to believe you've done some research, that if you were to go do something else in the private sector, you could make a good bit more money.

Yeah. >> money, and would you be in the same land surveying in the same industry if we use that word?

Yes. How much more money then?

>> I've done my research, and I I've done research, and I have job offers to prove that I could probably make 30 to 40,000 more a year. And yes, the job would be comparable, but um there's a lot more stress involved, a lot more hours, and, you know, all the typical private sector stuff. Well, I see I'm a guy who's worked in

both. So, full disclosure, when I was a young guy in my early 20s, I worked for the governor of Virginia. So, I lasted 12 months, Jade.

Uh I could not handle the pace

of government work. Not I'm not >> Yeah, absolutely. Uh the way the decisions are made, it is a lot more low-key is what I'm hearing from you, John. But the trade-off is you're not getting paid what you should be and could be making.

So, the next question is is when you come to us and you say, "Should I change my job for more money?" the question is what would we do with more money? So, let's say you make 150. What would you do with that additional money?

Where would that go in your life? Is that paying off debt? Is that investing more? Is that enjoying life more? What's the rest of the story?

It'd be investing more enjoying life.

I'm I'm completely debt-free. I own my own home. I have no debt.

Save like 25% of my check as it is.

Yeah. But I do have dreams of, you know, building a home in the mountains, and I'm trying to cash flow that, and I can >> now, ding ding ding, there's the answer.

I would absolutely go private sector and deal with maybe a little bit more stress. I'm not sure that we can guarantee that. Uh and deal with a little bit more hours in order to fast forward or guarantee,

based on the narrative you've given me, the private sector allows you to do that

faster and with more certainty. True or false?

It does. It does. Done deal.

Jade, we always answer what would we do.

We've heard my answer. I would absolutely go private sector, and I would invest more, and I would see if I could climb the ladder even higher than what you've researched. What would you do in his situation? >> I mean, I'm going to go part emotional, part tactical.

For me, after knowing what the answer is, which is yeah, we're going private sector, I would then run out the numbers so that I can get emotionally attached to it.

>> 40,000 more. Right.

>> Yeah, 40,000 more. I want to see that math. I want to know those numbers. I want to know that timeline so I can create a tie with that. If I don't do this, I'm not going to have the house until 2040. If I do have the house, I'm going to have it in 2035. Right? Like knowing that allows you to get excited about it. Allows you to create milestones. Allows you to do all the things that are going to keep your excitement when the hours feel long,

when you're wondering if you never should have made this decision, right?

So, that's >> That's what I would do. I would really make this so crystal clear, understanding what I'm trading and what I'm getting in return for my trade.

Yeah, I think that's so beautiful.

John, I think that's homework assignment. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great exercise. Here I'll give you the last piece on this. There's been several books, uh lots of research done on

uh patients who are in hospice care Mhm.

and how they share their regret their regrets with their loved ones, with their caretakers. There's multiple pieces of work on this that you all can go kick the tires on. But one of the constants, one of the consistent regrets that we hear from those that are know that their time is nigh and they're going to die soon is I regret that I didn't live the life that I truly wanted to live and John, you gave us a pretty clear vision for how you'd like things to go in the future.

And I think that beyond Jade's exercise, I think I love her. I love that

that prompt she gave you. But I would add to that if I don't do this

will I be on my deathbed regretting that I never went for it? Because the safe government job is always going to be there. But I kept hearing safety, safety, safety. And I I would challenge that to say the way we teach you to manage your money, which is we save up for it, we make solid, strong investments that are diversified that have a track record. We don't buy something we don't have money for. All of those things are safe.

But they ultimately lead to a life of adventure. And I think that's what you're craving. So, my friend, we have spoken on the matter. What will you do, John?

I know what he's doing.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, let's go to Richmond, Virginia. Sydney joins us there. Sydney, how can we help?

Hi, how are y'all doing? Great. How are you? I'm doing good. Thank you. Um so, my husband and I are trying to figure out how to best handle our debt. Um so, we

own my car outright, but he still has an

auto loan um and he also has some student loans. Um but we also have a

7-month-old and so we are trying to um

be cautious about how aggressively we tackle our debt. Um we do have a mortgage, of course, but um we have $30,000 in savings and we're just trying to figure out how best to um tackle our debt and efficiently tackle it as well. >> So, tell me what the car loan is.

So, we have $18,955.81

remaining on that. >> All right. And what is that car worth? Do you know if you sold it private sale?

Um I would maybe say around 30,000 maybe.

Okay. All right. Just wanting to know. And then uh student loan debt, what is the total? The remaining on that is $8,952.85.

Look at you. I love that you're giving us to the cent, by the way. You are awesome, Sydney.

Uh so, that's the totality of debt.

We're not counting the house. So, that's it. Yes, that's it. And you got 30 grand in the bank.

Yes. Savings. And how long have you been listening to the Ramsey Show or paying attention to what we teach here at Ramsey Solutions?

Um not as long as my husband. My husband is a big fan of y'alls. Um he has been listening for a lot longer than me, but um he's been listening for a lot longer than me. >> He is not. He is at work. He's a sheriff's deputy and so he's tied up at work right now. >> know? Okay. So, he put you up to calling us.

He said it would be cool if I did. Okay.

Here's what's funny about this. Because Because if he's been following us and he's big fans, he knows what we're going to say about that $30,000 in savings, doesn't he?

I think he does, but I told him that I

am a little bit scared. Yeah, you you opened with that. You said you were feeling cautious and I was interested in knowing what that meant. Yeah, I know what you mean. And as the information unraveled, now I know exactly what it means. >> She's freaking out over us telling her to take $29,000.

Yeah. Or actually, no, we leave a little 20 Actually, we get to leave some in there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

>> So, what Let Let me paint you a picture.

Let me just paint you a picture.

Um you're completely debt-free.

You have not one debt in the world. No one can come after you. No one can take anything from you.

You got $3,000 sitting in the bank.

All of your income when you get paid in November will go to you. No more payments to a car. No more payments to a student loan.

And you can take all that money that you were paying for a car payment, all that money that you were paying for student loans and you could just drop it over in savings. Before you know it, you'll have 5,000. Before you know it, you'll have 10,000. And you don't owe anybody anything. And you've got a 1-year-old at home and you've got 4 months of savings and you've got no debt. How awesome does that feel?

It sounds amazing and because I mean, it

is so true. We are a slave to our to a

slave to our debt and I just my only

concern and fear is, you know, heaven forbid something happened to one of our vehicles, something happened to, you know, the HVAC or whatever. That was a big ticket item. >> You want to know what I love that you're doing? Here's what I love about what you're doing.

You are putting detail to your fears. Okay? Because you said you were cautious, which really was amounting to a fear that you were facing about this. And there's really um two ways to have fear about this.

One is an irrational feel fear and the other is rational. Usually the irrational ones are very vague. It's like, "Oh, if we do this, it's going to ruin everything." Well, what do you mean by that?

So, let's fix it. Now we can look at it and go, "Okay, well, let's let's put some truth to this." The truth is you make a monthly income, don't you?

Yes. How much do you guys make every month? Combined, it's about six $6,400

a month. >> Okay. And how much of that are you putting towards your debt payments every single month? Plus extra cuz you're trying to pay them off. >> savings account you guys are building.

>> I'm getting to that. How much are you putting How much are you putting aside?

So, um his income pays for all of the bills. All of my income just goes into savings. So, I make about $1,400 a month cuz I work part-time since we had our son. So, you've got the 1,400 and then you've got the 3,000 You've got the 3,000 that's already there. So, have you ever had a car something happen with your car that cost more than $4,400 to fix?

Not yet. I hope I don't. Will you go and

Google something that you think will cost $4,400 to fix? Cuz I don't think it's there.

Yeah, I don't think so either. So, do you see what I did there? All I did was I took a fear that's okay for you to have, totally normal, and I just ran it through a process of saying, "First off, is it true? Is it rational?" We decided it is.

That's fine. And then we said, "Is there something that's more true that we can replace it with so that we can actually go ahead and do the thing that's going to set us free?" Do you see what I did there? Yes. >> There is not something that you cannot cash flow in the next month.

Do you see what I'm saying? And then as you go, you're going to keep saving like Ken said.

Um it's $497 a month. >> Okay, let's round Let's round that up to 500 bucks. What's the student loan payment?

Um like 180. Okay. Let's round that up.

I'm going to round that up to 700 bucks on top of your 1,400. Now all of a sudden we've got 2,100 a month we're putting straight to savings to rebuild the emergency fund that you did out of order. Plus your 3,000 that's there.

>> 3,000. So, we're at 5,100 within 30 days of being debt-free. 5,100 in savings.

So, what else could happen in 30 days that you that that the sky would fall? I can't think of anything that insurance wouldn't pay for. Do you see what I'm saying? So, now we see it was okay. It was okay for you to feel scared. It was okay.

But now we go, "Hey, that Now that we add it to the truth of what's really going on, now it becomes irrational, right?" It would be silly for you not to pay off this debt. And I think you guys have more margin than you're even reporting to us cuz we're not digging.

And so, how quickly could you guys get to $10,000 in savings after paying all of this off in one fell swoop? That's That's another fun exercise. How quickly can I get to 10,000 so that your fear gland, you know, stops being so, you know,

and we just like, oh, it relaxes. So, I you know, that's what we're going to tell you to do. It's what we tell everybody to do.

Pay it off. Pay it off. And what you want to know what I'm giving you permission to do?

>> Pay it off and in 2 months if it was the worst thing you ever did, call me back and tell me about myself.

Call me back and and and say, "Hey, Jade said I could come on the radio and cuss her out for the terrible advice she gave me." You won't do it cuz you're going to be like, "This is the best thing ever.

I'm debt free and I've got 3 to 6 months of expenses and I'm so glad that Jade and Ken talked me into doing the next best step with my money instead of me letting fear hold me back." That's what's going to happen.

It sounds good. Yeah, sounds good.

But it doesn't feel good. And that's your challenge. And I'm going to tell you right now, I think you're on the fence.

I think you're on the fence as to whether or not you're going to do this. >> She's going to go home and she's going to mull it over and and I expect you to.

All right? I think you would be kind of crazy to just Two people on the radio told me to do something, I'm doing it.

No, go go be I want you to be very thoughtful about what we told you. I want you to think about it and if you give it fair thought, I promise you you will see that we're right.

You'll see that we're right. >> And my husband uses the the app the EveryDollar app and he has

showed me numerous times what our what our leftover money would be if we didn't

have these debts and um is the fears are louder than the

positives of it but at the same time

like you said, I need to be realistic about if Well, fear Fear and caution are two different things. Fear and caution are two different things. Fear is what's going to stop you. It's a It's I don't know what's It's a It's a perception of the future that's negative. That's what fear is. It's not based on today. It's based on what you think's going to happen in the future, right?

Right. >> Quick question. What's the amount

that you would let go of today to to get rid of debt? Of the 30,000, how much would you go, "Oh, I'll let go of this and I'll feel fine." I'm just curious.

I would pay off the auto loan.

Let's do that today and then sleep on the rest of the idea. How about that? >> that. How about that? >> I like that. That's fair. Yeah, I think that's fair. >> Do 18 and then take Jade up on her offer.

Okay. >> You didn't know I was going to do that to you. >> that, Ken. I'm with it.

I like it. Let's try it. >> steps.

[Music]

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman. So excited that you're with us today. 888-825-5225

is the phone number. New Jersey is where we're going to go and James is hanging out there. James, how can we help?

Hey Ken and Jade, can you hear from you both? Uh thanks for taking my call. So,

I was just laid off from my corporate job about 3 weeks ago and the good news is I have a decent severance package where I'll be okay for at least the next 6 months give or take, not too much than that. And I have a fully funded emergency fund.

After hearing about that, my pastor actually asked me to help him with a new startup basically that he's launching.

It's a for-profit business but the streaming service it's a streaming service. It's all pre-revenue. Still waiting to final finalize details on investors but right now, they have no money to play pay employees basically.

Uh it has a pretty promising future that I can't really talk too much more about but the team that is currently quote unquote employed with the service all have other jobs and other forms of income. I would basically be the only one that would be working full time um without any alternative income other than the severance package. So, I guess my question is if I were to pursue this, I'm not as concerned about my finances cuz it it seems to be okay at least for the next 6 months but if I'm devoting 40 hours a week to the startup with literally no contract, no employment agreement, no guarantee about eventually being compensated, it's all based on like a very loose verbal agreement and even that was kind of unclear.

No, I'm not going to listen any further cuz I'm I'm it's like food's threatening to come up. You know, I hear this and I'm getting I'm getting more and more sick to my stomach hearing this idea. There is nothing There is nothing good about this. >> No, you're volunteer which by the way, you can volunteer Sure.

week.

Uh whatever extra time you have to say, "Hey, in good faith, Sure. uh I'll I'll

do what I can when I can

and uh let's hope this thing gets funded and it turns into something. But you're protecting yourself. The other thing is is and again, I we always answer questions, what would we do if we were in your shoes. Uh Jade will weigh in here on her take.

But if I'm you, I'm thrilled I have a 6-month severance but I don't want to touch that. Right.

>> want to live off that. Now, that's just me. So, I'm going, "All right, I was laid off from a corporation so I've got a lot of skill and a lot of experience." True or false?

Yeah, true. >> Okay. And nothing to be ashamed of. This is not a stain on you. The economy's really weird right now. It's the best way I can describe it. It's not hot. It's not awful. Uh but jobs and corporations, I mean, we're seeing a lot of layoffs. We're seeing a a very slow hiring market. So, I'm not looking at today's wins and going, "Man, I feel great about 6 months." I'm going, "I want to treat my plight as though I

don't have any severance at all and I got just enough money in the bank to make it a month, Jade. So, maybe I'm mindset is I got 30 days so that I'm not I don't want to be running around like Chicken Little, the sky is falling, the sky is falling.

But I would be very urgent and I would not give these people any time um that

would take away from your ability.

Everybody else has got a 40-hour week job. Ding ding ding, so do you need one

and I would be My number one focus is getting back into the job market and getting employed and we'll see how this

thing with my good pastor. And I'm going to say something else just because and I'm going to give it a disclaimer and I want Jade to come in and give her take. My disclaimer is I don't know anything about your pastor and I don't know anything about this business. But there was enough in that to make me go, "There ain't nothing about what you told me that makes me think this is anywhere remotely close to a sure

thing." And so for that reason, I'm definitely out and I would just help out and see if it turns into something.

Sorry for being a little cynical, Jade, but that's where I sit. >> you turned this into Shark Tank when you said, "For that reason, I'm out." And

I'm going to take a page from that notebook and Mr.

Wonderful would say there's some ideas you just need to take them out back and shoot them.

Yep, this is one of them and for that reason, I'm out.

And And what are your thoughts on his urgency? Oh, you know what? I I feel like he's a little too relaxed You're a little relaxed but I I think that

I'm sensing that you're relaxed because you know you can go out and get another job today or tomorrow. Like you're a smart guy. You were good at what you did. I don't think you're concerned with that. My bigger question is uh is that

the type of work you want to do anymore and is that why you were looking towards something like this as kind of a lifeline of, you know, I don't know if I want to do the same kind of work anymore. This kind of seems cool. My question is is it time for a career shift? Is that what this is really about? That would be my question on a deeper level. Ken? Yeah. James, I mean, it sounds to me like you got

I don't know.

You've gotten swayed by your pastor who you look up to and he's pretty excited about this.

That's what I think has happened and it's kind of a shiny object that's distracted you. Correct?

Yeah, I mean, to be fair, like he he didn't say we're never going to pay you. He he just literally has been juggling this whole project from >> there's no business plan. There's no timeline. There's no There's nothing.

>> You don't have to defend him. We're not attacking him. We're just saying for you right now, this is a shiny object that could distract you. To your credit, you called us to ask us what we think and we're saying, "Don't pay attention to the shiny object. Keep walking." Let's walk forward. Let's see if this thing materialize.

Yeah. Got it? I mean Sure. Go ahead.

>> Um The one way I think of it is just like I was even considering like going to actually Bible College. I'm a single guy, no kids, no mortgage, nothing like that.

do ministry and still have an income.

Yes, and you could also decide to go be a full-time missionary and make a lot less money. Yeah. I don't have a problem with that. That's not what you gave us.

You gave us this, well, there's this opportunity and now you're saying it's a cross-section and I'm saying it might very well be. It is not now. So, if you

as a single guy, you want to kick the tires and consider mission work or ministry work, great. Go for it, but that's a full-time job that um if you have to change your lifestyle to meet that new salary, I'm fine with that.

But this this other deal is not any of those things. >> I agree.

Yeah, fair enough. It's a super exciting volunteer job.

So, treat it that way. How much time can you give it uh in in line with everything else that you need to do and what you need to do is figure out what God has for you next.

Here's what I'm going to do for you. I would love to gift you my book and it comes with the assessment to get clear career assessment. The book's called how Excuse me, find the work you're wired to do. I recommend you take the assessment and read this book.

Take about 45-minute read. It'll really help you make some good decisions about how you're wired and what the next steps are for you. So, hang on the line and uh we'll get you that that book and the assessment. So, this this wasn't about a good business idea.

>> I think he's I think you nailed it. I think he's been kicked out of the nest and he's like, okay. He's clearly not on fire financially. >> Mhm.

He's got 6 months where he can breathe. >> Mhm. And here comes this thing that is a shiny object. It's attached to ministry, his church, his pastor.

It's all aligning with his heart. >> Mhm. And I love that, but we need to use our head, too. That's right.

>> And uh I'm a fan of getting the heart and the head aligned. So important. Then your hands do what they need to be doing. That's right.

So, uh you know, again, you're in great shape here. Uh but make wise decisions.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely

preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids, pregnant and has and didn't have life insurance and it and I'm like, I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills How am I going to eat next week? >> Yeah, how in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

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[Music]

Angela joins us next in Mississippi.

Angela, how can we help?

Hi Ken and Jade, thanks for um speaking with me today. I um was calling

specifically um about some advice on

instilling contentment at um a young age. Um a little context. We have a 6 and 1/2-year-old daughter in first grade and

my husband and I um we have financially

decided to invest in her future um and

sent her to a private Christian education and so that's where a large part of our income goes every month.

And um we are already seeing a keeping up with

the Joneses issue arising.

Um so, she's in first grade, she's coming back and she wants what her friends have.

I can name a few examples, but they're

really creepy little fuzzy keychain critters and it's little things like that where she You know what I'm talking about.

>> Yeah, I do. Um it it's little things like that where we had no intention of getting her one or

anything like that, but and quite honestly, she didn't even know what it was until she went to school >> Sure, right. and everybody else had them. So, we see this problem arising of even

as she gets older of going to school and you know, wanting what all the quote-unquote cool kids have or you know, what they have. >> going to happen. That's going to happen no matter what regardless of what school they go to.

Yeah.

Um and so, we were my husband and I were just wondering, how do we start teaching her contentment now before it gets bigger? Um we we've done FPU for kids with her

and so she's super excited about her envelopes and has like the biggest heart, loves to save, loves to give. Um

also really loves to spend. And so, how

do we transition this into just being content

with you with with what you already have because saying, oh, well, just be grateful for what you already have. You know, not all kids have X, Y, Z. You know, that only goes so far with a 6-year-old. Yeah, listen.

I am Angela, I am in that boat with you right now. I have a kid in second grade.

I have a kindergartner and I have I am having those same conversations all the time. And you want to know what I think part of it is is when you're a kid, I mean, you're born selfish, right? It's give me my food when I'm ready, you know, everybody does everything for me.

The world kind of revolves around them and they when they see something they want, they want it and especially if their friends have it, they want it, too. So, part of that's just the nature of being a kid. And I I'll tell you where I'm at now. I don't know that I'm right cuz I'm not ahead of you. Ken can probably give us some better judgment here, but where what I'm at right now is I feel like I'm planting seeds.

So, if I'm planting the seeds, I usually don't see the crop for quite a while and it can be tempting to think that if I plant the seed then tomorrow I'll see the fruit and it's just not like that. So, I've kind of told myself I'm telling them, hey, the things are things aren't what make you happy. This is going to you know, uh you've got to be you've got to learn to be happy with what you have. You don't have to look at other people, right?

I can plant all of those seeds and then I've got to just wait for them to grow. And then the other part for me is what am I How What am I like?

a person that every time I go to the store I have to buy something? Am I a person that every time I see something, I'm commenting on it and saying, oh, I wonder Let's see, I wonder if I can get that, right? I also have to check myself and make sure what am I putting into the house? Cuz if I'm a person who seems like every time I walk in the house I have shopping bags, well, then I'm not really helping my case here.

So, that's where I'm at.

Well, you got part of it right. I'm the old owl. I don't know how wise I am, but our kids are our kids are 20, 17, and 16 and my wife Stacy did a phenomenal job um on this

and I can tell you some of the things that we did and I I would tell you

um at this age uh 6 years of age, you're going to have to show more than tell.

I like what Jade said. I do think I do think you have the object lesson and I think you share uh sound bite cuz that's all a 6-year-old's going to pay attention to.

Right. >> But I will tell you that as consistently as you can, a short little bumper sticker response when she says that, just go, you know what? You're going to learn one day we can't have everything we want. Some little Whatever you want to say.

Trust your instinct and say it, but it's not in a sit-down lecture cuz the 6-year-old just can't process it. What I mean by show not tell is some some of the things that Stacy did we we did this early on when the kids were about that age, six or seven. We started dialing back on Christmas.

And we would do three equally great gifts. In other words, we got their list

and instead of 10 things, we gave them three. So, it was less than they wanted and that was an object lesson. They they were like, "Oh." But, all three gifts were awesome. And then we told them that they had to take one of their three gifts and they had to choose a child at the Children's Hospital to give it to and we took them to Children's Hospital in Atlanta and they had picked out one of

their three amazing gifts and they gave it to a kid who was very very sick and that was That was a that was something that again, no credit there. That was a older couple told us that and we did that for about three or four years. And I will tell you that that taught our kids as much as anything that we ever told them.

Tell us the first be 100% real. The first year you did that, how did they take it? What did they do? Well, they're young enough to where it's not a complete attitude thing. Like, I wouldn't recommend you throw this on 11 and 12-year-olds cuz at that point it's like I'm not saying the horse is out of the barn, but it's a lot of attitude you got to deal with. But, what you know, a kindergartner and a second grader?

What are we What are we doing? Like, they needed some clarification. You're telling me that I got to pick one of these three and we're going to give it and we were like, "Yeah, we're going to." >> Did they think they were getting in trouble? Did they read it as a consequence? No, I think they got it conceptually until they went down to Children's Hospital and they walked a gift in and they personally handed it to a different kid and I think they got it.

And I I think we could have done that uh in a lower income area.

It doesn't have to be a Children's Hospital, but the idea is show not tell

and you're trying you cuz your question Angel was how do we teach contentment?

And the way I think you teach contentment is you show them how good they have it, not tell them how good they have it. Show them. And so, that's that's what you you can take that and ideate and do your own version of that.

>> to do exactly that. But, I here's what it did. When they weren't thrilled.

I'm sure they weren't. I'm thinking about what my kids would do. I know Angela is thinking about what her daughter is going to do. But, but they weren't thrilled, but here's the thing.

They they understood it.

It made it not just about them. Yeah, it wasn't Mom and Dad are trying to ruin Christmas. It was Mom and Dad are trying to show us that there are people in this world that are my age that look a lot like me uh and they they are in a worse situation

than me and I'm giving them out of my goodness, I'm giving them some of the goodness in my life. I do think that

plants a very important seed.

Wow. >> Yes, I agree. That's so good. I'm thinking about it.

It's tough, by the way, as a parent. Let me also say it's not easy to say that.

>> Oh my god. Well, I'm I'm putting myself in you guys' shoes right now cuz you want to know I'll tell you Angela what I was thinking as Ken was saying that.

Next thing I'm thinking is well, when you got back home I'd want to have another gift sitting there waiting for them. >> that's not >> Then it takes away from it. I know.

And keep in mind >> question about it was um at our church

uh my daughter is really excited about the the Angel Tree or the Giving Tree of

adopting a family um and buying things for them and we've explained like these are families that, you know, if it weren't for us, they wouldn't have anything for Christmas and maybe they just need some clothes and and she gets

super like she wants to go buy the whole store for them and give them the world.

And so, that that desire is there

and but I'm wondering if that's just a little less effective than what you just brought up. Now, something that was hers that she's giving >> what I would tell you. Does she get an allowance of any type?

Uh no, we don't do allowances. We do commissions for her earning her money.

>> okay, great. Sorry. Yeah, I used Yeah, Dave hates allowances. Okay, here's my point. >> fine. I would take her commissions and say you're going to to adopt a family out of your money.

Like, get her money in the game. I think it's just as powerful as the lesson as what I shared. That was just one idea.

The idea is we're modeling Well, that's my point. If she takes her commission and she goes and buys the gifts and then hands it to the little girl in their family, the point is they need to see others that are not Listen,

kids can pick up on ooh, they don't have it as good as us. They need to see it and feel it.

[Music]

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[Music]

Hey, if you all are getting something out of the show, it's helping you uh we would love for you to help us. The best way to grow our show is for you uh to share because you have so much credibility. So, like, share, subscribe, however you're listening, wherever you're listening and give us all the ratings, the follows, all the things. I can't keep up with it anymore, but you know what they are. We would appreciate that so much. Chloe is joining us now in Houston, Texas.

Chloe, how can we help?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's going on today? Um my mom recently passed and before this I

was >> Thank you. Um I was kind of just Tell us what happened. on a journey.

Um I was on a journey of just working on my baby steps before this blow.

Um so, now I'm just trying to navigate. Um I have six younger siblings. They're they're minors.

And um you know, I'll be taking them on uh full-time. So, I'm just trying to figure out as far as like Bless you. her home goes.

Um we you know, we did have some conversations before she passed and she was wanting to get a bigger house to fit the kids. Um and she does still have a mortgage.

So, I don't know if it would be smarter for me to keep the home and just keep paying on it or you know, sell it and you know, of course pay the mortgage company off and What is your What is your living situation? Do you own a home or are you renting?

Uh no, I'm I'm renting, but I mean my lease is up next month. So, Can you even uh put all of the siblings in there with you? Is there enough room?

No, not in my apartment, no. I will be

letting this apartment go and um

trying to figure out, you know, this with my mom's house. What's What's What's the mortgage on your mom's house?

Um she owes 65. Okay. Okay and it's like

1,200 a month or something like that.

Did she did did you get the house? Is that been or is that still up in the air as to who who gets the house now that she's not no longer with us?

Um no, I I would be getting the home.

Okay. What's your current rent?

>> Yeah.

Um my current I I don't really have

rent. Um my partner, he works for Got it.

company. Okay, so would Also, it's a company apartment that he's getting?

Right, right. Okay, so tell me tell me

about your income, just you.

Um just me, I'm making 68k um in salary,

but I'm also working two part-time jobs, which I I probably won't be doing them for long now. It just just happened.

Okay. Um they only make like 500 every week.

Now, let me make sure I understand. You're working two part-time jobs in addition to the $58,000 job?

Yes. Look at you. What What are you doing that for? What's What's all that hustle for?

Um she had been sick for a while and I was kind of just helping with bills, but I also wanted to pay, you know, some of my debt off. So, I started this about 2 months ago. Good for you. I'm so impressed with your hustle. What kind of debt do you have?

Honestly, I don't have a lot of debt. Um my car is like 21,000

um and then I do have a student loan for 10,000 and then collections is like 4,000, multiple things in that amount.

Okay. It's like 4,000. So, the good news is let's say okay, you just at your base job, you're make you're bringing home 4,000 bucks a month, yes?

Yeah, just about, yeah. >> Okay. And let it if you did pick up a a smaller you let maybe you let two of the three side hustles go, right? The good news is the mortgage is right at 25% right where you want it to be. So, that's not a terrible thing. It's just a getting accustomed to a life where you're paying rent or paying a mortgage, right? Um Right. Then from there, there

should still be a little bit um you're going to have to adjust to what it's going to be like to support six siblings. Can you tell us the ages of the siblings?

Um 5, 7, 13, two 15-year-olds, and a

16-year-old. Okay. And is the 5-year-old in kindergarten yet?

Yes. >> Okay. So, everybody's in school 8 hours a day. That is >> you have aftercare? I mean, what How will this affect your ability to do your job for the youngsters?

Um So, I would probably have to let the app like

My part-time jobs are usually like evening times through the night. So, I would have to let those go because they get out of school around like 4:30, you know. So, um So, you can So, this won't The point is is this uh taking care of of of the little ones that are, you know, obviously need uh supervision, uh you can keep your $58,000. That's not going to affect that job at all, just the two part-time.

No. Right. Okay, good. So, I love you getting rid of the two part-time jobs, at least in the short term, just to see what this new rhythm is going to be like.

Bless your heart.

>> You really are. >> You're amazing. Wow. I mean, I got to believe that I mean, I got to believe you you knew this was coming, right? You said she was sick for a while. Had you thought about this day

and kind of started thinking about what that would mean for you, or is this all hitting you suddenly?

Uh we definitely weren't expecting her to to pass like anytime soon. We were

hoping for her to recover.

Um but I did think about if this did happen, what that would look like. Mhm.

So, Okay. Yeah. How long ago did she pass?

Um on the 1st. So, that is it's very recent. It's the >> Oh, Chloe, bless your heart. You are just going through it right now.

We're so so sorry.

>> Yeah, that's so so tough, but you're You are rising to the occasion in um some very amazing ways right now. Um

Thank I mean, on behalf of all the siblings, I'm just saying thank you because somebody needed to step in, and the fact that you are is so incredible.

Um Let's talk about this house, though.

That's the big question she called in with. She can afford it.

>> She can't. How Where's the Where's your partner come in on this, you know?

>> Uh Um He's He's fully on board. He's been

in the family, and we went to high school together. So, he he knows my

family really well, and they they love them. How old are you?

I am 30. Okay. Okay. Just double-checking. Uh Which way Chloe, which way were you leaning before you called us as it relates to this house? What were you leaning towards doing? I know this is all super fresh.

I honestly wanted to get a bigger house due to the fact that I a lot of work needs to be put into the house, and I thought about that every which way, you know, AC needs to be replaced, foundation is messed up. Okay.

There's a lot of different things that need to be done in the home.

Um and I just rather than putting that money into it, I'd rather just sell it as is and Right.

>> just move forward. You don't need a project in your life right now.

Uh knowing that, what do you think?

Well, now my question goes to to money.

Do you have any money saved?

Unfortunately, no. Not anymore. I mean,

I have like the $1,000 saved, but all of rest of that what I what I did have saved, I've had to spend it on her funeral arrangements. So, that has Thank God. Here's my savings, please. >> Here's I'm going to tell you just some mathematics.

This is not emotional at all. I look at a $65,000 mortgage that likely has a really great interest rate on it, and I think the like I think to myself, I'd rather be on the hook for $65,000 and have to replace a roof and maybe do $10,000 of work on a foundation, or if even $20,000 of work on a foundation, than getting into today's housing market where you're at now with the median home price being $424,000 where you're going to have to put 60% down, right? That

mathematically >> Yeah, I agree with you. Is it livable, though, Chloe? I mean, in other words, all those things are true, but could you live in it for a season until you guys got out of this, learn what this new rhythm of life looks like, figure out what what we can do to fix it. Is it livable?

Um

It's livable, but I would have to like for sure like the plumbing part of it.

Um And and some other like minor things that you'd have to get >> Cuz how My point My point is you can't get into another house today. That's my point. >> I wonder if she just rents, and we tell a lot of people renting is a good move in certain situations, and I wonder if she gets this headache out of her life, uh and doesn't have to worry about it on top of everything else, having to come in and mother these uh siblings. She's in grief.

>> rent something that's no more than 25 to 30% of your take you know, what you're taking home, I'm okay with that and selling this and taking the money, if there is, and holding that over for a later time. That's Yeah. >> Yeah. I I I just think this is a tough reset.

A whole new life for her, and I don't think having a a a money pit of a house is a good play. >> That's true.

[Applause]

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, let's go to Shady in Colorado. Shady, how can we help you today? Hi, Ken and Jade. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm I must admit, I'm a little bit starstruck. I enjoy listening to the Dave Ramsey show. Well, we are appreciative of you listening, and I know that you're starstruck because Jade is here, and trust me, she's very down

to earth. She's going to treat you very well. Thank you. Yeah, you bet. What's going on? Um well, I um so, I'm in the in the midst of trying to I guess move to a tran uh transition to a employment that

I really feel is a good connection for me with my abilities and gifts and everything. I did read I did take your assessment, Ken.

Um I'm still working on reading your book, but I did take your assessment, so I do have a better idea of my giftings and everything. >> Do you have your results close by in case I want to ask about it? I do.

>> Okay. We'll just hold. I don't know that we need to get to it yet, but we might.

Okay. All right. So, um so, with that in mind, I um

I I am subbing right now. I'm a day-to-day sub. Sometimes I get long-term sub assignments. I make about, we'll say, 40,000 a year, um an average of three 30 3,300 a month. Um I I enjoy

subbing, but I my I really love creating, and I I am uh I love writing like poems, songs. Um

I'm right now um partner hope maybe partnering with a publishing company to um do a store like take some of my po one of my poems and make it a uh story. Um and it's a it's about a national park that I visited. And so, but the cost of

that is um 8,500. And so, and I have had

a couple of songs produced, which, you know, like it costs money for that, too, but this one is kind of a big chunk of money um to get this my poems made into

a book. So, I'm I'm a little hesitant because I have 12,000 in savings. Um it's 8,500 to work with this um publishing company, and I um I I make

about right now without a long-term sub assignment, um just day-to-day subbing, I make we'll say about 2,000 a month, Are you single Are you single income?

I am single income. Yeah, I um I am single income. I um I do live with um my mom. I lived on my own for about 7 years when my dad passed away. Uh shortly after I ended up moving you know, I moved in with my mom. She She you can use the support and the help, and um yeah. How How old are you?

I'm 44. Okay. Do you have any debt?

I don't. Thank Thanks to Dave Ramsey and

And the 12K and the 12K in savings, does that represent your emergency fund?

That is accessible, so it's kind of whatever it whatever I need it for, I can grab it. But I also have about Oh, go ahead. I just want to make sure do you have an emergency fund?

Is the emergency fund the $1,000? So, baby step one is the $1,000 before you pay the debt off. You said you don't have any debt, which means baby step three, you have 3 to 6 months saved. So, does this represent 3 months of expenses? 6 months? >> Yeah. Okay. Well, you would have that in there because your $2,000 a month is what you're making? Yeah, exactly. And what I can live off of. Okay.

All right. I have enough information. Um I don't think you should spend $8,500

on anything Okay.

>> at this stage.

Um uh given your income, uh I'd like to see

you have way more in savings um cuz you have such a small income.

Uh in in other words, I would want you saving for other things. Right? Like sinking funds.

Um and I I won't get too far into that.

I'll let Jade And maybe she doesn't think it's too much. Let me tell you why I think it's too much. Okay. $8,500

is such a huge chunk of your savings.

You just don't have it. So, that's my number one. So, we we don't want to ever put um the emergency fund into any kind

of trouble and we should never pull from the emergency fund unless it is in fact an emergency. And you've got at least six grand in there we're saying is 3 months. So, so the other thing is is both of us are published authors, okay?

Um and I know a lot of people in the publishing game. I know the independent publishing game. I know just enough to get me in trouble, which means just enough to give you good advice on this.

Okay, good. I don't think you're at a stage of life where you need to be spending $8,500 to publish a book of your poems when you can go do it on Amazon for pennies on the dollar. And let's show our work. There's a great book that I'm going to recommend you buy. And it's by a guy by the name of Austin Kleon. K L E O N and it's called Show

Your Work. And uh it's about half an

inch thick, can read it in 30 minutes.

It's very illustrative. As a creative, you will love it. But it is my homework assignment for you as to what you need to do before you ever think of spending this kind of money with a pseudo or

hybrid publishing model. Let's let's get the your work out through uh self-publishing means that

are max hundreds of dollars at max. And let's

put our work out and see how they do.

And and let's let's show our work and see where we stand.

Um instead of spending at this stage of your burgeoning writing career and where you are financially, I don't like this move cuz I think here's what's going to happen. I think you're going to spend $8,500 and you're going to sell just as many copies as you would if you spent $85.

Okay. Now, that sounds like I'm stepping on the dream. >> No, it doesn't. >> Oh, okay. Thank you cuz I feel that way, but I'm actually I'm telling you from experience. Yeah.

>> You would be better off doing research and going, all right, um what is the process for creating an ebook of my poems on Amazon and selling on Amazon? You got a link. Yeah, please do it that way. Sell it through social media. Yes. Let's just test it.

>> have to sell a zillion copies before you break even on the 8,500 you spent.

>> That's right. >> Okay. So, I agree with Ken. Um you have

12,000 saved. You have any other money in retirement, anything? I do have about 20,000 in retirement. Okay. Um

I want to take a stronger approach. Do I have permission? Sure. I think that you need to take a

long look in the mirror because when you

started telling us, you were kind of making it seem like, hey, I'm living with my mom, she needed my help, she went through this thing, and that may be true, but without her, you couldn't be living right now.

If you weren't living there >> be tight. >> no. No, no. No. $2,000 a month, ma'am,

you can't live on that. And you can't do that subbing here and there. So, you got to make this a full-time deal. Now, I'm all about chasing dreams. All of You're talking to the creative herself. Like, I love what you said about the poems and I I love that for you. I would never try to take that from you. But in the meantime, you must work. You must because you're 44.

Right. >> And you will look up and the time will come when you can no longer do the work you want to do because your body won't let you do it and you've got to have something there. And you've got to create that foundation now. You've got time. I'm not saying you don't have time, but if you don't start moving, it that window to make this right gets smaller and smaller and smaller and I don't want you to miss that window.

Okay. Well, I didn't think I was going to be crying. I'm sorry. I love you. I love you. That's why I'm telling you.

Listen, we're not trying to discourage you. We're trying to encourage you.

Don't let the creative stuff die.

Yeah. >> got to test it. If you had called me and said, I want to spend $8,500 to open up a food truck where I'm going to sell some type of food, I would have said the exact same thing. I'd have been like, let's see if we can sell it in our neighborhood first.

You know, we we've got to test test test. What most people don't think about in this wonderful country called America where we can start anything at any time, Yeah. we don't think about the testing part. We just think about the launching part.

And we've got to test.

So, please be encouraged, but listen, Jade's right and I think she was the one person that could say it. Um you know, what are your relationship dreams? You don't have to answer these questions. But but what are your relationship dreams?

And and what are you doing to to live your life the way that you want to live? And you don't have to necessarily do this on your own. And and there is a time and a place to fully launch into something like poems or whatever. Keep writing.

Keep writing about what moves you. And then show your work and I promise you, please get that book and do exactly what Austin tells you. Super easy functional way for you to test your stuff and see what other people say. And see if the stuff that moves my heart, oh, some of the stuff that moves my heart moves other people's hearts.

Ding ding ding. Now we've got something. And in the meantime, let's go get a really good job. >> Yes.

And let's stay with mom just long enough to really get on our feet and let's get out in the real world, you know? Yeah, my my mom has a condition where I probably it'll be indefinite. Um but That's okay. That's Yeah.

You can stay and take care of her, but don't let that stop you from launching into making a full salary.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio alongside Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman. Dustin is going to start us off here in New York.

Dustin, how can we help today?

Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call. You bet. What's going on?

Well, I have a question about housing and budgeting. So, let me give you a little bit of context. My wife and I are in our early 30s. We've been working baby steps. Uh we've been married about 2 years and in about a year and a half mark, we paid off we finished paying off around 70,000 worth of debt. >> Way to go.

Oh, thank you. Um and so, we currently live in a one-bedroom co-op in the Hudson Valley, which costs us around $1,600 a month.

So, uh with that in our budget, we're able to uh save between 3 and 4,000

dollars a month and we've been doing that since we got married.

Um and so, we're about to have We have a

7-month-old now and in the coming May,

we're going to have our second child.

And so, that's a lot of people to put in a one-bedroom apartment.

>> Yeah. So, to Yeah, to get to a bigger place, it would be about $2,400 a month at least in this area just cuz it's the Hudson Valley. Um and so, in our child care costs are likely to go up in the coming August

once paternity and maternity leave is done. And so, um my question is like, do

we do we stick it out here cuz our long-term plan is to move out of state in about 2 years once my mother-in-law retires. And so, we're saving up for a down payment, but in the meantime, >> That's my question. Indiana. We want to go to Indianapolis.

Into in about 2 years?

In about 2 years. >> How much money you got saved up?

Um so, we currently have around 17,000

uh saved up. Um we just finished paying

off all of our debt, so we're like we're just getting started on that saving process. But you're saving a lot per month, which is great.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And our living situation really helps with that. And you know, we got family nearby and all that. So, it's the location is good.

It's just the the square footage is not great. Yeah. Um and so, um you know, do

I do I sell our co-op in the the meantime so that during that 2-year waiting period, we can have a you know, more expensive but larger place? Or do we just kind of stick it out in the the one-bedroom with four people? I mean, if I would what I would do is I'd stick it out for as long as I possibly can because the more that you can save on your living is the more money that you can save for a potential down payment.

And I don't have to tell you, you're you need a lot of money saved for a down payment these days, right? So, the more that you can get uh saved in the next 2 to 2 and 1/2 years, that would be my number one goal. As a matter of fact, I'd run it back and say, "Okay, um based on Indianapolis home prices and based on what we want >> Which I got you over here whenever you're ready. Whenever you're ready.

>> We're going to plug that in, and then we're going to run it back and say, "Okay, what must be true for us to move in?" And then that's the that that is the sil- the the silver bullet of what we're saving for in the next 2 to 2 and 1/2 years. So, can >> All right, I'm going to I'm your assistant. I'm giving you some numbers here. >> Well, I don't My computer died, so I don't have it.

>> I got you. That's what I'm here for. That's what I'm here for.

I did three-bedroom cuz it's going to feel like a castle to him. Um aw, I love hearing the little one in the background. That's real. We like that, folks. Um 230 to 299. 230 up to approximately

230,000 to 299,000. Some specifics, if

you look at Marion County uh cuz I typed in greater Indianapolis area. >> Okay. So, I'm giving So, this is just what This is the homework you need to do, my friend. But, you got Marion County median price is 229, Hendricks

County median price is 303, uh Johnson

County median price is 298.

>> So, let let's >> other surrounding. So, you you're you're in that 230 to 300,000.

>> then let's add a little inflation to that. Let's say 240.

Right? That's what I would say cuz this is 2 and 1/2 years from now. So, you say 240, and then knowing that what you're attempting to do is is put 25% down,

then you can go in and plug in estimated taxes and insurance and all of that, and that number is what you need to be

Well, I got him I got him at If you guys continue to save, if I was listening correctly, you were saving 3 to 4,000 a month. >> Mhm. Uh you guys can have a shot at getting close to 100,000. Just your savings, not including any equity in the co-op, right? Correct. Yeah, so I I What's your equity in the co-op?

Uh we think, based upon comps that I've run in the area, that I can get around

54 50 after the sale.

Um and so, that brings us pretty close

to that uh 20% down payment with what we have saved. >> Great. And we're targeting a house in Indianapolis or around the 300,000

uh mark. Great. >> Love that. >> That's very doable. And I'm with Jade then. Listen, the babies don't know. The This is going to be tough on you and Mom, but you know what? Two little babies, these are going to be memories that you two talk about when the kids are long gone, and you're going to be like, "We did it." And I think since we're not asking the kids to suffer Mhm. you guys aren't really suffering, but it is a form of suffering. And I'm I'm with my partner on this one.

She Listen, she and Sam I brag about this. She and Sam had one car for how long? 10 years. >> And And how many years after you actually had the money to buy a car? >> Oh, long Let's see. We were done in 2018. I didn't buy a second car till we got here, which was 2022. Which I don't recommend. I think I think she's bananas, but she's the real deal. So, I'm I'm with Jade. I 100% would suck it

up. They're little ones.

It's going to be crazy anyway. 2 years is going to fly when you got two babies, you know. >> I know that's right. >> are long, but the years are short.

>> That's right. >> And I'm with Jade 100%. I I tough it out

and then make the triumphant entry into Indianapolis with a really really nice down payment. And by the way, cost of living there fantastic. So, man, you're going to feel like from Hudson Valley to the greater Indianapolis area Mhm. Oh, man.

What a change. Unless Okay.

>> Looking forward to that. No. Wait a second. Hold Hold on, Dustin. She's got an idea. >> No, it's not an idea. I I was just about to throw some bait into the water. Go for it. I was going to throw it.

>> said it's a really great cost of living there, and I was going to say unless everybody unless everybody in New York gets spooked and starts going to places like Indiana and Florida and >> Tennessee. Oh, yes. So, people raise their hands out there in the lobby. >> saying? Indiana is the new Tennessee.

Are you all leaving Are you all leaving upstate New York? I met you all earlier.

Is that what you did? Yeah. >> See? That's what I'm saying.

Now, I'm not trying to spook you, but I'm just saying the migration is real. They're more mature. Can we say that? They're a little bit more mature in age.

I'm just saying that there are predictions being made. I'm just saying about another great migration. >> Oh, well, we'll see. We'll see.

Times will tell. Now's the time, folks. I thought I was setting you That's why I said I was putting a line in the water. >> No, I'm not going to take it.

Well, I'll say this. I'll say this. I When people say they're going to leave this country based on some political change, number one, it's their right to say it. We saw a lot of celebs say it.

A few actually did it. >> Instead, they just went to Indiana.

The celebrities I'm thinking of. But, you know, listen, are people going to leave over stuff like that? You better believe it. We saw massive migration from California. We saw it here in middle Tennessee. Uh certainly a lot of people moving to Florida. Uh certainly going to happen. But, I I don't think and I'm and my my brother-in-law and sister-in-law live in Indianapolis, so I apologize ahead of time. Of all the places people are going to flee from New York, I don't think it's Indianapolis.

I'm not throwing shade at any of my friends. It's a nice area, sir. It's a lovely area, but it's not on the top of anybody's list. Is that fair?

Even he's acknowledging me. He's like, "Well, you make a good point. Lovely place to live. Is it a top destination?

I DON'T THINK SO. [Music]

[Music]

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Not available in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Bailey in Maryland. Uh they say, "We currently have $7,500 in credit card debt and an

$800,000 home loan. Now, the home is worth $1 million. We have around 50,000 invested in single stocks to give to our kids when they are adults and out on their own. The kids are now 10 years old, and we are investing regularly for them.

On one hand, I feel like we should cash in these to put towards our debt.

However, I also know that time is such a huge factor uh in long-term investing, and I won't make that much of an impact on such a large debt. Uh we currently make $175,000 per year combined. What

should be our priority? Okay, so

the $7,500 in credit card debt, and it

sounds like that's the only consumer debt that you have, okay? The rest of it, $800,000 on the home loan, that is not part of baby step two. Baby step two

is we pay off everything except the house. So, on your salary of $175,000

per year, unless there's a typo on this, why don't you reach over yesterday and pay off the $7,500 in credit card debt?

Unless that's a typo, I don't understand where the problem is. Now, we can talk about how I think your money is best invested. It That's kind of beside the point right now, but no, you don't need

to liquidate that stock to pay off this debt. You can cash flow that in 2 seconds is my point. Now, if we keep going and we're talking about on down through the baby steps, do you need 3 to 6 months of expenses saved? Yes, you do.

Now, we can talk about is there any any money at our disposal that we can start to do this? If I were you, I would still

take my salary, and I would cash flow 3 to 6 months. Now, this money that you invested for your kids, if it were me, I

would pull it out of single stocks, and I would drop it in a 529 plan. That's what I would do. Because single stocks is not the best way to invest money anyway. Now, if you said, "Well, Jade, if I just invested in the market, I have more investments open that I can use, blah blah blah." If you wanted to park it in some sort of a brokerage, I suppose you could do that, but it's not the best tax advantage for you.

That's why I would do a 529. That's what I would do with this 50,000 invested. I would then turn around, cash flow 3 to 6 months, and then you're you're you're off to the races. And then baby step seven Baby step six is when you're going to pay off this home, okay?

You're going to be putting extra payments towards this mortgage for a long time until it's done, or, you know, paying a little here and a little there until it's done, but it's not something that you have to do in baby step two. I just want to be clear about that.

Yeah, good advice. I can't add anything to that. Um also, I want to mention our new EveryDollar is here. It's way more than the world-class budgeting app that we've been talking about.

I was meeting with the team the other day. I was like, "Hey, I want to get in on the inside of this thing." I'm looking at it, playing around with all the new features. And best I could come away with, I said, "Guys, this is this is literally like someone could get on the app, and with all the questions they're going to answer in the first 10 minutes, it's like talking to us on the air, but way more detailed and you get all kinds of content. They're like, that's exactly what it is.

So, fantastic stuff. And the average person finds thousands of dollars of margin in just the first 15 minutes. So,

start every dollar today for free by getting it in the App Store or Google Play. You know what? Let me run back what I said to Bailey and Marilyn. You know what? I'm thinking about it. I would You know, the 50,000 You have an $800,000 home. You need a 3- to-6-month emergency fund today. I probably would liquidate it and use that as my emergency fund and then restart with the 529s. All right. Final answer.

Final answer, folks. She has spoken.

Kevin is up in California. Kevin, how can we help today?

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. My question is I'm 21 in my final year of college with $50,000 and no debt. And I'm not really sure what to do, but I have a few options with my main one being real estate as my family is going to go 50/50 on the investment property if I figure out the whole the whole process in purchasing and going about the investment property.

Did you say 50 or 60,000?

Uh 50. 50, okay. And when do you finish

school?

I finish in May. Okay. And your degree is in business. And what do we want to do?

What are we looking for? What's that job we're looking for?

Um I'm going to be starting full-time in

the fall as a business analyst. Congrats. How much will you be making?

Um I want to say I'm very privileged and I'm very thankful, but around 120 to 130,000. Okay, great. And you have zero debt.

Zero debt. My family made a deal where if I go to community college for 2 years and then transfer to a four-year, they'll pay for my Great. two years in more. Wow. Okay, I just wanted to get a quick snapshot for Jade and I on your total financial picture so that we can now address the question. And if we can go back into the question, you've got the 50,000 in savings and and you're

going what what should I do with that?

Is that what I'm understanding?

Yeah, it's right now the 50,000 is invested in the market, but I don't really trust myself in the market cuz I've Yeah, I just don't really like the market. I'd rather How is it invested in the market? Be specific. Is this in a a mutual fund or is this in single stocks?

Sadly, I know it's terrible, but single stocks. Wow. >> Okay. All right. Well, it's not the end of the world here. It's just not the strategy. All right. Jade, jump in here.

So, what do you want to do? Is this a home for yourself or is this some kind of rental? Like what are you thinking?

I would want to see a rental.

Yeah, I want it to be a rental. Um can I ask why a rental and why not a place where you're just living?

Learning about what it means to own a home. Yeah, so because I'm going to be

graduating after I graduate, I'm planning on and again, like I'm very thankful for this, but living with my family with my parents because my job is I'm traveling like half the year and then the other half of the year my parents are traveling themselves.

And so I didn't see the point of having my own home even though all my friends are going to be living and moving out.

>> So, let me tell you what I would do. Knowing what you've said, I would combine the best of both worlds. I

This is and I'm going to ask more questions to make sure that you're in this position. But if you're in the position to buy, I would buy a home and I would make the home for me, but I would also have roommates.

And I would have roommates that live there so that while I'm traveling, I'm still bringing in income, but I also have this place that's my own that I'm building I'm learning what it is to to live in a home. I'm I've launched out of my parents' house. Do you see what I'm saying? So, you're getting the best of both worlds where you're feeling independent, but you're also still feeling like you're bringing in rental income. Does that make sense?

The only caveats to that are number one,

you would need to be able to pay the rent on your own or pay the mortgage on your own no problem even if you didn't have roommates. That'd be number one.

And then number two, you'd have to meet the normal criteria for what we would say is a proper home buying experience,

which is the payment's no more than 25% of your take-home pay.

Um you're out of debt, which you said you are, and you've got 3 to 6 months of expenses sitting aside.

Now, my screen says that you don't think you need an emergency fund. Tell me more about that.

Yeah, um I my my my parents are pretty um

involved in my life and if something were to take a turn for the worse, I think they'd be there for me. Why can't you be there for you, though? Why wouldn't we set ourselves up for you to be there for you?

Since you're I mean, you're 21.

Very true. Honestly, I just

That's that You got You got a great point. >> Can I ask a question cuz you've been very humble are. And I think you're I think you're being very very delicate here in how you choose your words. So, I'll ask, are your parents very wealthy?

I would I would say they're comfortable to a sense.

Okay, but they're not It's not a trap question because I wonder if if your parents are very very wealthy and they're saying to you pretty actively, hey, listen, do this, do this, we got you here, then it makes sense to all of your responses and I love that Jade's going, that is a blessing and you've got called it that, by the way.

But regardless of that blessing, you still need to establish your own life knowing that mom and dad are very generous and can be. So, don't want to put you on the spot with that, but that's what I'm sensing and I think Jade's advice is actually really really great. Thanks, mom and dad. You're amazing, but I want to find my own way, build my own way, and I want to do it in a way that's very responsible.

>> And if they're going to match your 50% on the down payment, I think that's wonderful for them to do that.

>> Yes.

[Music]

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Jade, I've been able to interview a lot of big-time authors. Mhm. And I always love to ask them, if there's only one thing that readers can take away from this book, What No One Tells You About Money, what is it that you want them to take away? Oh, one thing?

>> I know. It's like asking you to choose between your kids. Um >> But what's that if you go, okay, they read this book and can here's what I want them to be able to take away, to be able to do. Um I want them to be able to identify what it is that they're feeling um at the core of things because a lot of times it's just running in the background and it's influencing us and we don't know. Um behavior I I I explain it like this.

If behavior is the car, right? We want we want to we want to get out of debt. That's the behavior. Okay, I'm in the car. Our beliefs are in the driver's seat. I believe I can do it.

So, I'm ready to operate the vehicle.

But our emotions can steer us off track.

Emotions steer the wheel.

>> They can make us hit a tree. They make us go in a ditch. They can make us turn around and go the opposite direction.

And if you don't feel that, if you don't know it's happening and you don't even realize it, right? Can it's it's it's showing itself with you having arguments with your spouse just because they stopped off at the gas station to get a Mountain Dew on the way home. Why? Why are you getting so mad about that?

Why is it every time you go to the grocery store, you're worried that it's going to overdraw the account. So, all of these things are operating in the back. It's operating when everybody somebody brings up student loans and you just get mad as a snake, right? It's all back there and you need to be able to see what is it that causes me to be so passive-aggressive whenever somebody tells me something that they're winning at with money, right?

It's back there and you need to see what it is. I help you identify it and then I help you fix it so you can actually get on track.

I hope that you know that it comes from a very very real place. That it's not just another expert telling you something to do. It's someone who has stood in the mirror and cried and wondered what was wrong with their life and if they've ruined everything.

I've done that and so I want you to know it's coming from a person who's been exactly where you are, and that's why I can write about it and explain how to get out. So again, Ramsey Solutions

dot com /store. Pre-order it now. Comes out in first week of January. This is a fabulous gift, by the way, for that person who hasn't maybe decided to go all in on this uh process, uh but boy, if you can speak to their heart and and get to where they feel, ultimately you get an opportunity to help them change the way they act. So, this would be a great gift, by the way, for that person in your life that uh is struggling with money and can't figure out uh what they need to do next.

Uh Tyler's up in Oklahoma. Tyler, how

can we help today?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Yes.

What is going on?

Uh sorry, this is kind of surreal being on here. I've listened to you guys so much. It's crazy. Um so, this is kind of a kind of a lot.

I'll try to keep it brief. Um so,

I am in a uh a tough situation right now.

I was working away from home. Um

I was doing a truck a truck driver job, and um I was making pretty good money. I was trying to pay off some debts. I do have debt racked up. And um I'd been gone for a while, and my wife was kind of like, you know, you got to get home, and I wanted to be home.

And so, I found something back home that wasn't as good pay, but I took it, and then it kind of fell through. So, long story short, I'm I'm back home now with no job. I was making pretty good money. Now I have no income.

My wife doesn't work.

we're in a really tough spot there, and so, that's the first part. And then the second part is kind of like I hated the truck driving job anyway, and I don't really know where to go from here. I've I've been struggling for a while on like kind of finding my path.

I've listened to you a lot. I actually took your assessment. Um and but I just I still can't quite figure out like where I want to go.

>> have your assessment results near you?

I actually do. Yeah, I have them pulled up here. I can I can read them to you if you Yeah, let's let's This is we're going to get to that, but I'm going to go ahead and write it down. Uh okay, top three talents. What you do best?

So, I have logic, organization, and justice. >> Okay, hold on. Logic, organization,

and justice. Okay, all right. Top three passions.

Making, finishing, and analyzing.

Making, finishing, and analyzing.

All right. And what's your uh mission result? Uh creation. Oh, so you like to

create things. Okay, we're going to get back to that. Okay. Uh uh There's a lot.

Like I said, there's a lot. >> No, no, I know. Well, we got to we got to we got to deal with the urgent, right? And then we we we we got to win the now, and then we worry about the next. Yeah. Um you got to go to >> I've been applying for jobs and things like that. You know, I'm trying I know I've got to find something right now. >> have you been out of work?

Uh just uh week and a half. Okay, great.

I would go back to the truck um because that's that's there's a huge need in that area, and I know your wife doesn't like it, but we got bigger problems than how much time you're at home right now.

It's just bread and butter. >> And we just got to go where we know there's a need. And I appreciate that you're applying for jobs. Uh this becomes your full-time job, but while you're applying, um you're driving around construction sites. You're driving around anywhere where you've got a skill. If you've got a trade skill, in other words, if you're good with a hammer, or you're good with a shovel, you have got to start working, and I mean today. And if not today, tomorrow.

If I was in your shoes, I'd be going where I could get a check. We need to get checks coming in.

And when we get checks coming in, we take care of all of the basics, and we can breathe, which means we're allowed to think a little bit. And when thinking, we actually can think clearly with a thing like the assessment. So, I just want to cover that. I don't care what it is. What were you making driving the truck, by the way? I didn't ask that.

Uh I was making a little over three grand a week after taxes.

My man, that's a that's a good chunk of change. >> It sure is. >> money. It was good money, but you know, I've I've got three kids here at home, and I was gone for five months, and it was just >> Okay, but you can't sit at home and not work. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who who >> no, I know, but like >> better off with you on the road making 12 grand a month, or are they better off uh you at home with no money coming in?

No, I I I totally understand. I just It was really hard being away from home, and and thanks for kind of starting My my wife was struggling here. >> Okay. Uh all right, I get that. Let me meet you there. Let me meet you there.

But if you drove a Did you drive an 18-wheeler?

Yeah. Okay, you're qualified to drive a lot of large equipment beyond just a truck, is my guess. True or false?

Uh yes. Yeah. Dude, where's the need in

your area? This is not resumes. This is you driving up on sites.

I I know for a fact, cuz I pay attention to stuff every day, that the trucking industry, and I understand there's the long haul, but there's also regional, and then there's local stuff. And they need somebody they can depend on, and buddy, you got a great resume. And you got a good story, by the way.

and a guy hops out of the truck. If you got to go to a a a dagum uh truck stop,

and go, "Hey, I noticed you're driving a Coca-Cola truck, or a Pepsi truck, or a beer truck.

Are they hiring right now?" That's how we apply. And you go get behind the wheel of something that gets you home every night. But I think that's your best bet. Now, on the assessment, here are the three questions you got to answer. Who are the people I want to help? What problem or desire do they have?

What solution to that problem or desire fires me up? Now, answer those three questions while looking at those assessment results, and watch the ideas flow, and then please read the book.

Hang on the line. We're going to get you find the work you're wired to do. I'll coach you all the way.

[Music]

[Music]

All right, welcome back. I uh may have my sheet, James. I don't have my >> I think I have it, Ken. >> not have it? >> The scripture and quote of the day? I got you right here, comrade. James, I

was so nervous, man. I was looking in my stash here, pal. >> trying to make you sweat.

Hey, it worked. I was trying to make you sweat. >> the scripture of the day for us. Uh but hey, fear not, folks. Proverbs 12:15 is

our scripture of the day. The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice. And our quote of the day from Milton Friedman, one of the great economists of all time.

Uh the way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.

What a word. Can I I'm just going to read that again, because Milton Friedman, a lot of people don't know who he is. You need to look him up. The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Chew on that for several hours, folks, and it'll eventually hit you. I get it immediately, and I think that's brilliant. >> brilliant. >> Uh Jason is up in Pennsylvania. Uh Jason, how can we help?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. You bet.

>> Um so, my my question is uh revolving around uh 529 plans. So, when

I had kids, I wanted to make sure they didn't start their adult life off with debt like I did, and like so many other people do. Uh so, I opened 529 plans for each of the kids the year they were born. Fast forward 18 years, and I was very proud to have invested enough money in the 529 plans to fully fund both of my kids' college educations.

Um as luck would have it, my eldest child, my son, then earned a college scholarship covering his full tuition.

He's going to graduate in a couple years with with no debt, and somewhere north of $150,000 in account for him.

Uh that's So, that is kind of where my issue comes in. And I got to thinking, and my wife and I got to talking about how do we hand this money off to him, and when? Uh you know, I those first few handful of years out of college for me, you know, were a struggle, but I think that really taught me a lot of good lessons with debt and with money and being financially responsible. So, I don't want to rob him of that.

Um so, I'm just looking for a little bit of advice on, you know, how and when and to to pass this money to him. Are you thinking in terms of how you pass the money?

Are you thinking of just giving it to him as a 529 and suggesting that he

change the beneficiary to his future

kid? Like, what are your thoughts on on that part of it? Yeah, what I've started to In Pennsylvania, if you get a college scholarship, you're able to take that amount out per year, which I've started to do, and I'm moving that into a brokerage account and investing in index funds. So, I'm going to give him the brokerage account at some point. Okay.

>> don't know when. So, that that will be just a brokerage account opened in his name that he will take over. >> love that you made that transition. Um

Ken, I want you to to add to this, cuz your kids are older than mine. Um I think so much of this depends on

what type of kid this is. Uh it depends on

how they've managed their money. It depends on what their track record has been, cuz I I'll tell you straight up, you know, in my mind if if I have a son who is been so responsible and and so smart and and done so well with his time and his money and all these things and responsible. Yeah, when the time comes for him to buy a house, I'd love to help with that process whether it's help 50/50 on the down payment and this is the money that's going to do that.

Does that make sense? Yeah, I I love your advice. I I think

listen, all of us who have multiple kids, you know, they're all they're all different and and they tend to handle money very different. I'm thinking of my three kids as you were talking and I'm I'm laughing, you know, just the differences between my three. Yeah. You know them.

I do. I do. >> all Yeah, I have one like I you know, they don't listen to the show so I could say it. My boy Chase, let me tell you something.

Don't say the name. Well, I don't mind. Screw They will never see this or listen to this in a million years. You give it to him at 21 and it ain't going anywhere.

He's going to keep it.

It's going to turn a lot of money. Yeah.

You know, I'm not going to disparage the other cuz I I but I'm just saying he's the one where I go automatically it's a younger age for him. Uh-huh. The other two, I want to see some things. I want to and I you know, they're all great.

I love that advice. I thought you I thought it was good. I was I was I was stepping into your advice in my situation. Uh but I have a a little bit of a curveball that goes outside of the three

and their personalities.

Uh because I've toyed with this. So, I haven't done this so >> Mhm. don't come at me. I'm not. I'm listening. I wonder if and I love what Jason said

and Jason, I agree with you. I remember coming out of college having nothing. I mean nothing. Paid my student loans off. That's all I had. I didn't have a car payment and I just drove a piece of crap forever. I mean, the car I picked Stacy up on in our first date, it it's embarrassing.

Yeah. So, I do like that they need to figure it out. >> that part. And there's part of me that goes I wouldn't mind uh just putting it away in a in a true retirement account.

>> Mhm. And and it's for their retirement and Ah, okay. >> let it sit there and then over time go, "Hey, by the way, this is something Mom and I uh wanted to bless you with." And because I I don't want them to have the brokerage. I'd want them to have I'd want them to have the retirement account.

Is where I would do it. >> I see where you're going with that.

I'm not saying I'm I'm solid on that.

>> Here's why I like the real estate thing and I'm not saying right away. Like I'm not saying when they're you know, at 23 when they come out. I'm What I like about the real estate is they're they're they're giving a leg up of building wealth earlier, but it's not so it's not

I can just access this money and spend it and you know, it fall away. It's it's going into a home for savings account.

It's building equity. Something that's taking people now decades to save for to

be able to have that help is such a big deal. I almost think it could make a bigger impact than having the retirement later

because it's going to influence their day-to-day life and what they're able to do. That's my only Either one is good. Either one is good.

The only reason I thought the real long term is it's like I want them to make their own decisions on that. And I don't know what they're going to do from a home stand point. >> to be like, "Hey, this is here." It's like, "Oh." Like, "Hey guys, I've told you >> and I've been telling you to do your own thing, but we went ahead and and so you got a nice now I cuz I think I could I mean, I want to buy them all a house. >> Mhm.

All right. I do. These are things I want to do.

Everybody would love to get that gift.

>> it. They can't touch it until >> the age? Not when you die. No, no, no.

>> For them, would it have to be 60 Yeah, I've set it up as a retirement account.

Oh.

That's long term. I get it. I'm not saying by the way that that's what I'm going to do. I'm saying >> about it. >> into Jason's call and I went with him and I went, "What would I do? What could I do? What's the longest term thing that it's a blessing, but there's no temptation?" I think I'd say whichever happens first.

You're either 25 and you're ready to buy your first house or you're 27 ready or

when you upon marriage like when you get married. >> Okay. And I love those two. I like that.

And I would I'm I'm not sure. And it wouldn't be cash. It would be >> Right. down down payment on a home.

>> Yeah, I just think so few people think long term. And and I like the long term gift. Um

You're I mean, there is a nice growth on that. That's different. >> kicking it around. I don't like I said, that is not a in stone statement for me.

>> Yeah, I get it. Me neither. >> go, Jason. I And here's the deal, you're such a good dad. Can we just come back to you and go, "We gave you some ideas and thoughts, but man, how awesome does it feel for you to be in that position?" Mhm. Mhm. I'd like to kick that out to the comments. See what they would say.

>> There you go. Oh, they'll comment. Jason, what do you think? We'll give you the last word.

Yeah, you know, I thought about some of that too as far as you know, with that 529 plan in Pennsylvania, we can roll I think it's up to 35,000 into a Roth. So, I may I may do that and then put some of it in a Roth and then the rest in the brokerage and then >> That's what I'm thinking. I love the mix. That's good too, you know. So, I don't know. I don't know. I just look at all these young people. They're not thinking long term, you know. So, Jason,

you're good man. Thanks Thanks for the call. You know, it's it's That's the best worlds. It really is. And again, love that where people can see why that 529 is such a good play because look at that. He's able to do something with that. You're not stuck. People like, "Oh, what if they don't >> Now you're not stuck. >> You're not stuck. It's such a good good investment. I absolutely love that. All right. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. [Music]

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## 36. Discipline With Money Leads To More Control | April 27, 2026


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| **Video ID** | `tByzgwmsyL0` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tByzgwmsyL0) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:34:54 |

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[music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broken. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform [music] your life from the Ramsay Network in the Fair Ones Credit Union studio. It's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jay Borshot. Next to me, doctor John Deloney

on the ones and twos. >> Let's get it going. >> All right. Going straight to the phone lines. We've got [music] Ryan who's in Tacoma, Washington. What's going on, Ryan? How can we help today?

>> Hi. Hi. Um, I'm calling on behalf of my

father. I'm I'm very concerned for him.

He's 79 years old.

>> Um, and he's very financially gullible.

He has just been recently scammed out of

$3,600.

Uh, the transaction just went through yesterday.

Um, I stopped a scam last year. Uh,

there was that involved him. He has a [clears throat] time share of course in Mexico that he was contacted about and somebody wanted to buy it from him and he's getting a call from somebody claiming to be a bank manager in Mexico that has an account with a large amount of money in it. And and he he he's believing everybody, but he's not believing me. >> And I'm so concerned for him. He's he's

a widowerower. Um he's alone home with his dog and a little bit lonely and and

he just I'm trying to find a way and I'm I'm calling for help. Are there resources available to me that I can

help my father see that this is a scam

that these things are not true or that it is too good to be true. um the one that he was just scammed out of, he um

was told he started an e-commerce business >> and it is a website. It's a live website

and he paid these people a large amount of money to build him this website where they will basically put up these products and then they'll get shipped directly to you and he can sit back and just comfortably gain 30% profit margin

on everything without leaving his chair.

Does does he recognize the scope of this latest scam?

>> I still don't think he does. I I He's

concerned. He's been very quiet about it. >> Yeah. >> And he he's I think he's a little

embarrassed, but he won't be completely open with me. >> Okay. Have you ever Have you ever been scammed?

>> No. [snorts] >> Okay. Um No.

>> Have you ever made [clears throat] a mist? And here's what I'm looking at looking for. Um, I there may be resources, but I I can't

think of a better resource than a father's like the love of a son for his father.

And so there I don't know there's going to be a website or a a new article like

the scams against aging our aging population has increased so much. It's a

multi- multi-billion dollar business and

they're robbing seniors blind. And you nailed it. It's a group of people who are increasingly lonely, don't have resources, and who are being fed um rage

and anger and fear all day long, and then somebody comes along and says, "Hey, I can I can give you a bit of this." Right?

What the reason I was asking if you ever been a part of a scam is um

for your dad, nothing's going to be more embarrassing than falling for something,

right? And this same group of people who stole this $3,600 bucks is going to loop back with a different scam and say, "Have you been scammed? Give us $500 and

we'll make sure it never happens again. He'll fall for that one, too." Like this whole thing, like you're you're working with pros, okay? And so if you have ever

made a mistake with money, been scammed out of something, leading with that first is often a way to mitigate shame.

It's why Dave Ramsey always leads with the story of, "Hey, I promise you I've blown my life up financially more than any of y'all have." It gives everybody else permission to say, "Oh, you had $4 million in debt. I just had $100,000 in debt." Right? So, if you can sit down with him and say, "I've messed up before, Dad. I've been buried under this stuff before.

power of attorney? Would you let me pay your bills for you? And he may say, "No way, no how." And I I know a lot of aging dads have a lot of ego and a lot of pride still. Um, but I I don't know

another way around it. Brother, >> we're hearing this more and more and more and more and more.

>> He did put me on his account um so that I could help him with that stuff. But in that, I set alerts which, you know, he went to the that branch and pulled 3600 out cash. And I said, "Dad, what's the cash going for?" It's for his business account. And he had to go deposit it into a Chase account for this business.

And I said, "Dad, nobody does business like that." >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Nobody takes cash from one account.

You've just completely severed any line

of traceability to this.

>> H how much money does he have access to?

Your dad?

>> Well, his bank account, his savings is,

as I see it, nothing in his savings, but he has a monthly pension and social security amounting roughly $4,500 a

month. And does he have a nest egg anywhere else?

>> That I don't know. Um I think he's got

an investment account. Um you know, and

he he keeps getting this call from these these people and and and and you're right, John, they are absolute pros and and they they they keep they let a certain amount of time pass and they'll call him and and you know, hey, you know, we we've got this account. I'm a brand. The last one was I am a bank manager from Sand and Tear in Mexico City and we have this large amount of money. >> Sure.

Yeah. Is is there >> Nobody does that. >> Is there could you get through and say, "Hey, Dad, I've been reading about a lot of um people with pensions and social security getting a lot of calls from all over the country, all over the world um with people trying to scam scam them out of their money.

Maybe you guys can talk some sense into him because at the end of the day, yeah, you can do all the things. You can freeze credit. You can, you know, make sure your name is on the accounts. It already sounds like it's that way. But until you really have, um, it sounds

like until you have full control over this and you're more so distributing money to him. Um, sadly, this could

continue to go on and it's huge. John, you hit on it before, but the latest statistic is adults 60 years old and older have lost $3.4 billion dollar to

scams in a single year. Like, in a single year. That's crazy. So, maybe I I don't know what kind of guy your dad is.

Maybe he's an analytical guy and it's just like maybe you print out some crazy stats and you just slide it over on the table and say, "Hey, >> just read this. Just please read this." And and it's not you talking, but you let somebody else do the talking for you. Maybe you send him this episode and you say, "Dad, I was really concerned. I called I called a few experts just to see and what they said really bother like it was really troubling me and I I wanted you to hear it, too." And so Ryan's dad, if you're listening, you you you got to let Ryan help you out.

>> And for all aging parents, >> yeah, it's bigger than you. >> If your kids come to you with some expertise or some care and love, man, let them love you, right? Let them love you. >> They're not they they they want nothing for you but to help you. They gain nothing for it. And remember, the scammer is the one asking you for money, not your not your sons and your daughters who are saying, "Hey, please don't do this thing.

[music]

At Ramsay, we don't partner with companies chasing trends or pushing gimmicks. Trust is earned and that's why

we send people to Fairwinds Credit Union. See, a lot of banks rely on teaser rates, marketing hype, and fine print. But that's not how Fair Winds operates. They've been serving members for 75 years. And you don't last that

long by cutting corners. You last by serving people well. There's a reason their name is on the studio wall. They built products that help you manage money intentionally, not pull you into

debt. If you're looking for a practical way to organize your money the Ramsay way, check out the Fair Winds Smart Bundle. It pairs a high yield savings account for your emergency fund with a checking account that doesn't drain your balance with fee after fee after fee after fee. Open your Fairwinds smart bundle today at fairwinds.org/ramsey

and get the Ramsey beweird debit card.

That's fair winds.org/ramsey.

Insured by the NCUA.

>> [music]

>> back to the phone lines where we have Amanda in San Antonio, Texas. Amanda,

how can we help out today?

>> Hey [music] guys, um I'm calling to to

get some um some wise guidance um on

what to do in my marriage with our finances. Um my husband is pretty irresponsible with spending on a daily basis and um nothing seems to change for

a long uh like a longer period of time.

And my next step for what I've thought is to separate our finances and just ask

him to pay a portion of our bills to me

so I can handle our finances a little more responsibly. Um I just don't know if that's the the best next step. Um, >> what do you mean when you say he's irresponsible? Like, tell us what those behaviors look like. What was the most recent thing he did >> that you would say, "Man, that was just so irresponsible." >> Yeah. Um, so, um, mostly, um, we're

averaging $50 to $70 a day, uh, between

five and seven days a week, um, spending at gas stations.

>> On what? Mountain Dew and corn nuts.

That's it, man. He He's getting a drink, isn't he? He's getting a drink and a snack or like a a sausage biscuit.

That's what he's doing. >> Well, yeah. It's it's it's breakfast.

It's energy drinks. And a lot of it is um those liquid cratom shots.

>> Oh, yeah. So, number >> That's next level. >> Yeah. I've I've got a close friend who went through a gnarly cratom detox.

That's the issue here.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely I think an addiction at this point. And you know, I bring up my feelings about it, but um they change for two days and then it goes right back to where it was. So >> yeah. Um >> John, real quick, explain. So for folks who are listening who don't know, >> it it's just a it's I considered it I

mean in the same way uh I won't even go down that road. It's something you can get at a gas station that alters your mind. >> Yeah. It's a plant >> that is an ingredient in things that it's addictive just like any other substance. But a lot of people don't know that it is. And when they when they buy it for the first time, >> anything if you ever go to a gas station to try to feel better, that's your first signal. Probably not a good idea. Um,

where else in your life is he not showing up for you?

>> Um, well, I think a lot of it is kind of trickled down from the cratom thing. I think it's, you know, um, frustration caused by that. I think it's um you know just lack of intimacy as well caused by

that. Um but you know it's just it's

it's something every two weeks it's a new obsession of I want to buy watches and now I want to buy Pokemon cards and >> um we're just draining money like there's there's a nail on our tire and we can't seem to keep it filled. So, I I want you to treat this um this might be an an what I would call it might be an overcorrection, but I want you to treat this as though he has an alcohol addiction.

He is regularly consuming a substance that is altering his ability to show up for himself and his marriage and that is costing a bunch of money. It's causing relational conflict. It's causing relational disconnection. All that stuff. And so anytime you're sitting with somebody who is struggling in any sort of addiction, what you can control in that moment is you. And it's you saying, "Here is what I'm going to do next." And yeah, I I

would advocate for you right now to get your own checking account and to make sure you've got your bills paid and make sure you've got your house your roof over your head and make sure you can afford your own counseling bills because this is a bigger issue than the $50 or $75 a day. Um he's blowing at gas

stations, right? It's a much bigger issue. That just that's just one of the alarm bells going off. >> You have Do you guys have kids together?

>> Uh we do. We have three.

>> Okay. >> What are their ages?

Um 8, four, and uh 10 months.

>> Okay.

>> Is he is he still showing up at work?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Um he he took a pay cut at the beginning of this year. um you know but loves his

job. So that's I guess better than making more money and hating your job.

Yeah. But um >> well for a short time but >> do do you have do you have do you work outside the home?

>> I do. And my my concern with having our

our bills split proportionally to what we make is that I make more money than him and I don't want him to feel less of a provider. >> That that ship is sailed at all. >> That ship has sailed. We're solving for safety. >> We're not solving for feelings right now. We're solving for safety. >> And I think I think it's good that he knows that, hey, you've you've put us in a situation where I can't trust you. And therefore, I have to be a woman and make

sure that I'm keeping myself and the kids safe. And the way that I can do that is I can keep this money aside and I can use it to pay the bills, keep the house running, and when you're ready to get the help that you need, I would love for you to come back into the marriage and be a participant again in a healthy way.

>> Yeah. >> And and and be forewarned anytime you put up a boundary like this and and by the way, this sounds like a boundary to reestablish connection down the road.

>> That's right. >> And to keep you safe. So, it's not like you're like a like an immature 26-year-old like, "I'm cutting off my parents because they gave me a curfew when I was a teenager." You're not doing that. >> You've told Yeah, cuz you told them the bridge to come back on. You've said when you are able to >> take responsibility, get the help you need, I I'm happy to have you back.

Basically, >> we're all back in. Um, expect him to run

full force into this boundary with everything he's got to see if it will hold. And if you give him, I expect this

much money for rent. I expect this much money for uh bills and he stops paying

you, you're going to have to you're going to be forced to say, "Okay, what next? Am I going to hold the line here?

Is he going to have to move out?" >> Um like you you go ahead and set that stuff up in your mind because he's going to test those these boundaries and see if they hold. >> What do you make every month, Amanda?

>> Um I make about 4500.

>> Okay. And what portion >> after tax? >> Okay. After tax. And how much is the rent rent or mortgage?

Um, well, our the house we just bought

is a 2150. Okay.

>> Um, and we're currently staying in half

of a duplex that we own and the

remainder to cover that mortgage is

about 500.

>> Are you renting out the other side?

We are and we have renters lined up for this side when we move out in the month and a half >> to go to the new house.

>> Correct. >> Was the duplex another one of his scams?

>> Uh, no. No. I think it was a wise investment. >> Okay. Okay. Um,

what about daycare?

Do you pay for daycare? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um, we we do pay for daycare. Uh it's about 20 or it's $230 a week for our one

one child that's in daycare.

>> Okay. When you say it's a wise investment, what are you going to clear after both rents come in on the mortgage and the insurance and the upkeep?

>> Yes, we clear about 900 a month.

>> Okay. So that's enough to cover daycare basically. And does that come to you?

Are you able to get access to that money before basically grab access to that money so you can make sure it's getting used to keep the household running.

>> Um so some of it um and a portion of it is from like section 8 >> and that goes to our joint joint account. So I have access to that though. >> Okay. And I would make sure that you you keep that access because what I don't want is anything to come in the way of

you being able to keep a roof over the heads of your children, them getting to school and daycare so that you can go to work. This is a four-wall situation. So, let me just back up and explain. When you're up against it financially, there's four things that you need to be in control of and prioritize. The first one is, yeah, you got to keep shelter.

So, you got to make sure you're able to pay the rent. You've got to keep the utilities on. That's number two. You've got to make sure there's food, right?

You got to eat and you got to make sure there's transportation. And in a close fifth, John, is things like daycare, insurance, making sure that those things are going. So, that's your top four. And then five and six that that I would throw in there as well. And if you can just keep that ship running and like John said, enforce those boundaries. I mean, this is not going to be an easy season ahead. But [music] I think for you, finding those areas of the the

things that you can control and the things that you can be responsible for when you put your head down on your pillow at night, that's going to be life-saving for you. And to know that you're going to be mama bear with these kids and say, "Hey, there's a lot of crazy going on, but I am like the source of like steadiness and peace." That's the best that you can do for yourself and for your kids right now.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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[music]

[music]

All right, right back at it to James in Detroit, Michigan, the Motor City.

What's going on, James?

>> Man, how you doing? doing good. How can

we help?

>> So, my question is, uh, so about two or three months ago, I kind of, uh, found the Dave Ramsey show and I like what you guys preach, um, as far as like working as a team. Um, I'm married and, uh, I have two kids and, um, just lately I've

wanted to pay off debt and I got my wife on board. Um, I'm a police officer. Um,

and I just got a second job as well.

>> Great. And um I got the uh so we did

baby step one, we're working on baby step two. The only confusion that I have and I don't know if there's a difference or not is do I use those extra payments

and as soon as I get paid uh do I put

that towards um my smallest uh

um sorry I'm forgetting the word right now. >> That's okay. Yeah, my if I get if I put that towards the smallest debt right away or should I save up to amount so like say it's $10,000 um do I put that uh do I save up $10,000

and then pay it all off at once? No. Um like you Okay. >> No, you can you can do it as you go along. Um you can do it as you go along.

So let's say uh what month are we in?

April. So let's pretend that for April you've paid all of your minimums. uh you've satisfied everything else on your budget that you need to satisfy and you've got $500 left. You would then say, "All right, just like I budgeted and just like I planned, I'm going to put this extra $500 on my smallest $10,000 debt and now it's $9,500."

>> And then you just go along like that. And the reason for that, um, at least in my mind, the reason for that is number one, each payment that you make, it's ex it's more exciting for you, right? every time you pay down that debt, you're like, "Yes, I see the balance go down." You get like that shot of adrenaline.

You're feeling good about yourself. And then the other reason for that is simply just kind of like um I'm going to just say natural behavior, which is when you start stacking up a pack of a pile of money that's just kind of over to the side, your brain wants to spend it on other fun things. And so just hurrying up and assigning that and doing what you got to do, it kind of keeps you from, you know, being left to your own devices with that money. And I I'll throw in a third thing.

>> Yes. >> And then the month after that, you're only paying interest on $9,000. Right.

So is it otherwise you're going to pay interest on 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 until you acrew that. So the actual amount of interest you're paying goes down too. And and okay, >> and just for the larger audience, what we're talking about here is the debt snowball method where you're listing all your debts, smallest to largest. And make sure that you're doing this, guys, um by by the balance, the full balance,

the full amount owned owed. Don't list it by monthly payment. Certainly, don't list it by interest rate. It is by full balance. And then, of course, in the meantime, you're paying minimum payments on everything. and you're throwing any and extra any and all extra money uh at that smallest debt. And to James' point, we're going to do it as it happens.

We're not going to wait and and and pile up that lumpsum. So, it's a very good question, James. Thank you for that. Uh we've got Crystal who's in Sou Falls, Iowa. Hi, Crystal. How can we help today?

>> Hi. Um so, my husband has been following

you guys since he was in high school. We're 25, so for about 10 years. And we've both been living the Dave Ramsey lifestyle. We have no debt. Um, our net

worth is just shy of $690,000.

Um, we own a home outright that's worth about 170 to 180. And we're buying some

land to build a home. And we're just trying to figure out if we slow down on maxing out our 401ks, which we've been doing to save more money to pay cash for that, which could take some time, or um, I guess what's the best option? Do we slow down on our 401ks to save more money and pay cash or do we take out a construction loan or what's your advice there? >> How much are you investing? Is it beyond 15%.

>> So my husband is maxing out his 401k which I'm not sure what it is right now.

The 22,500 whatever it is. >> Um and I am we're both doing Roth 401ks

and mine I'm doing 60% of my income

which is the most that I can do.

>> Okay. So, I mean, you could you could essentially play this like, hey, we're going back to baby step 3B because I'm in you guys' situation. And I I should probably ask, how much is it that you're trying to save up? What's the what's the dollar amount?

>> So, and that's the thing. We don't really have like a set dollar amount that we're wanting to save up, too. So, we're buying the land in the next probably year, and we have the cash for that right now. So, it's mainly just saving for a building, which probably between $500 to $600,000.

>> Um, so I mean, realist Yeah. I mean, realistically, it could take us, I don't know, 7 to 10 years to save that up in

cash. I'm not exactly sure.

>> And you're going to sell the current home, so that'll be part of it, right? The one that's worth 180.

>> So, no. So, our plan was to actually turn that into a rental.

>> I mean, you could, but it's going to cost you a lot of time. I mean, that's almost $200,000 there tied up.

>> So, what I would do, I would, first of all, we can't make a plan if we don't have real numbers. Um or at least at you know as close to >> this is how things get way out of hand on a on a on a build.

>> Yep. >> We need >> Yeah. I mean >> we need a budget. You guys get to set the budget and say this is how much based on our research based on our numbers based on our timeline we're spending $450,000 or we're spending $550,000.

So I think that's thing one to this entire question because then so let's pretend just for the purpose of today let's pretend hey the budget is set it's $550,000 that we are spending on this build. Okay now how do we get the money?

Um well I personally I'll tell you the

truth with what you guys have accomplished I personally would have a lot of a hard time going into debt again. That being said, we don't we

don't poo poo on folks for going into mortgage debt if they do it the right way on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage where the payment is no more than 25% of their take-home pay. Okay? Like, let me start by saying that that's what we suggest. That's what we um uh would tell

most folks to do because most folks don't have the money to pay outright for cash, which is technically the the best way you could buy a house. Okay. So, I want to say there's nothing wrong with a mortgage, but in your case, I kind of feel like it might feel like taking a

step back. You tell me if I'm wrong.

>> No, for sure. And that's kind of So, my husband and I are kind of on two pages.

My husband would like to Yeah. save up the cash, continue um maxing out our 401ks and just you know slowly build up

our cash and then um you know a year or so before um we are estimated to have

that cash kind of start that building process. >> Yeah. >> Um what's the timeline? >> My concern is >> what do you need to what do you want to have done?

>> So like he says like 2035 so that's like nine more years. >> Oh >> my concern Yeah. So my concern though, this is where the discussion comes into play. So the current home we're in that's worth the 170 to 180 is a threebedroom, one bath. We have no children at the moment, but we're hoping to start a family soon. Okay.

>> And the the kitchen's quite small. We have one bathroom and so I mean like I know it's doable, but my concern is I work from home and also I work part time

from home. >> I hear where you're going, Crystal. But you Here's the thing. We're just setting up an idea, a plan today. You can always reassess it, right? You can always because the truth is there is no baby yet. There's no dis inconvenience yet.

It hasn't caused you a problem working from home yet. So, what I think you can do is look at this and go, okay, let's set the plan first of what our ideal situation is and what the smartest play forward is. then we can start to factor

in, okay, here's some things that might cause that to affect our timeline and then you can start making contingencies for that. So, what I would say is, okay, 550,000 is what we're spending. We've got a 9-year horizon. Are you okay with 9 years or are you thinking more like 5 years?

say I'm I'm thinking closer to five years, but I just don't think we're going to be able to have like the 100% complete amount of I think if we've probably sold the current home we're in because in we have the cash, most of it at least. >> And I like that for you.

>> I think you run out I think you run out both of these scenarios uh in your mind and with your husband, Crystal, I would do a 9-year play and I would do a 5-year play. Obviously, the 5-year play would cause you to sell the current house that you were going to use for a rental. And then I would say, well, what happens if being in this house with a kid does start to pose a problem? Then maybe instead of taking out a mortgage for, you know, $400,000, you're only taking out a loan for $150,000.

Do you see what I'm saying? So, you have options.

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>> [music]

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Remember, may not be available in all states. >> All right, today's question comes from Denise in South Carolina, and it's a good one. Denise writes, "I'm 76 and I have two children, a daughter that's 45 and a son who's 47. My will divides my

assets equally, which is how I want it to be structured. My daughter is and always has been irresponsible with money. I'm now considering putting her share, about $500,000, in a trust to

provide an income for her without giving her access to the principal. Is this the best way to provide for her or should I just let her have the same payout my son will get and let her blow it all on concert t-shirts? [laughter] >> Number one, don't hate on the concert t-shirts. It's all good.

>> Um, >> I've got my own opinions on this. What do you think, Jade? >> I think that it's her money, meaning it's the 76-year-old. It's Denise's money, and I think she knows her children, and I think she gets to decide how she's going to divvy it up.

children is responsible with money and can handle it, you know, being dispersed to them and that the other needs a little bit more guard rails. I think that that's her choice to make.

>> Yeah. You get to do what you want with your money. Um >> cuz you don't want it to be harmful.

>> Right. Right. And the challenge here is I've I've gotten this question before and someone's like, "My son is an alcoholic or my daughter struggle with drug abuse on her own." Right.

>> And this is one I just don't like how she spends her money. She buys concert t-shirts and whatever. And I'm sure I know she's playing, but >> um you get to do whatever you want with your money. And that means if you're

going to take that responsibility, you have to take responsibility for being honest about what your plans are with your money before you pass away. And that means you have to be responsible for your daughter getting mad at you and not liking you. >> Yeah. Don't let this be a surprise from beyond the grave. >> Yes. Otherwise, your son, who I'm assuming is responsible, um gets all the

blowback here. Mom's always treated you different, you and so your refusal to have this hard conversation about what you're doing with the money and how you're structuring it will will like

make in concrete that your son and daughter will never have a relationship either. Don't do that to anybody. And so, if you're going to have the courage to say, "This is my money. I want to spend it how I want to. Great. I love that. And that means have the courage to do the relational hard thing, which is tell the truth. I like the idea of

saying, "Here's what I want this money to go to." Um, and if you want to put it all in a trust and say, "I'll pay off both of your mortgages. I will like put

this in retirement. I mean, in accounts for kids, your kids college, for my grandkids college, I like that." But, um, again, it's your money. Do what you want to do with it.

>> All right. I think that settles it. I like that response. Let's go to Alex who's in Tampa, Florida. Alex, how can we help out today?

>> Yeah, thank you guys so much for taking my call. >> No worries. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so me and my wife are expecting our first baby uh in the middle of June, so pretty soon here. And we are currently on baby steps five and six.

And I just had a question as to what the best way to manage handling both of those steps are um while being proactive with both, but putting one in front of the other. Um we're definitely trying to get the house paid off soon, but >> also want to uh be able to set our son up for for um a good life.

>> Yeah. I mean, obviously for those listening, baby steps four, five, and six are to be done simultaneously. So, baby step four, you're investing 15% of your gross income every single month when you get it. At the same time, you're also putting aside a designated amount, whatever you get, whatever you decide, uh, for furthering your kids's education.

And that could be in an ESA, that could be in a 529, that could be you just throw some money in a brokerage account. It's up to you. And then also, simultaneously, you're denoting an amount that you're going to put extra on your mortgage. And again with that, you get to decide how much and you get to decide the frequency on which you apply that money.

And it doesn't always have to be the same. I like patterns. So, you know, I like to set up a a reoccurring pattern. But Alex, for you, you don't you can do this the way you want.

>> Yeah. So, I I mean, I think the plan is to just put um obviously, you know, an extra like $2,500 towards the mortgage

each month and then um you know, probably you know, a few hundred every month towards like a 529 plan something.

>> I love that. I love that. Why does that bother you? What are you concerned there won't be enough money for education?

Yeah, I think coming up with the amount to do um each month for like a 529 or for, you know, um the baby in general is is kind of a hard thing. We've been trying to come up with like a number and I think that's one one area we've been getting stuck with for college.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Just just take a million dollars and know that will probably cover semester one and books, >> right? Like Yeah. Who knows what what it will be in 20 years, right? Or 18 years.

There's some projections that you could run if you wanted to get super nerdy, but to John's point, it's still extremely I mean, it's unknown, right?

All of that's a big guess, but you could run out some projections and say, "My kid's going to go to college and I don't know, I'm not going to do the math, but in in in 2040, what will the cost of tuition be then?" Right? You could do some things like that and run it backwards. But then there's also the variables of you might have kids that aren't cut out for college or they want to do trades or they start their own business when they're 19 or >> they start implanting chips in our head in a few years who knows >> or we've all been beamed up.

Like there's a lot [laughter] of things that could happen by then.

you're doing, let me just say I think what you're doing right now is working really well. And I think you continue to ride that train and unless you look up and you go, "Oh my gosh, it looks like he's looking like the type of kid who's going to go to college. Let's let's amp it up a little bit." Right? Whatever the plan is, you can always make make changes to that plan.

And I think I think that's the biggest part of this question.

amount set, I think conversations about

expectations trump dollar amounts any day. >> It does. As as a planner who lived inside the college system, I I came up with a number that I wanted to try to hit and then I regardless of what

college costs are going to be, this is the number I can come up with. And then I my son's just turned 16. He's a sophomore. We had big conversation. We have conversation all the time, but we had big conversation about 2 months ago.

>> In 2 years, regardless of what the cost is, this is what we're going to have.

>> Yes. >> And we even went down like as far to say, if you get this on your ACT and you

get this much scholarship, I'll write you a check for this much when you graduate. Right. I'll Yeah. So, it it's just being honest. And I I'm in a

fortunate situation. If you're in a situation where that number is 10,000 bucks and I I'll be able to come up with 10 thou tell your kid as early as possible. This is what I will have to contribute. >> And so if you don't want to pay anything, then we're looking at two years free community college and we'll figure out the rest. You're going to have to work two jobs, etc. Or like so it's being honest about all of it.

>> Yeah. I I love that and that's exactly right. even if you have zero dollars to put aside. My parents, and I've told this story before, I'll tell it again.

They told me early on, they were like, "Hey, you don't have a college fund and we're not taking out student loans. Like, we're not taking out parent plus loans and you're not taking out student loans either." Um, and so that told me, it was like, "Okay, I have scholarships." And they told me, they're like, "You better be good at sports or you better be smart, [laughter] basically, cuz you're getting scholarships." And that that seed was planted and that was what I worked towards. Now, I was an idiot and I took out student loans just to pay for life, but I had full rides to college.

Um, and so the point here is talk to your kids early and often about whatever the plan is for college. If you don't have money and you know you're not going to have money, set the expectation, hey, you're going to community college because college choice is the number one factor for being able to go to school and go to college debtree. So, you're going to community college, you're going to a state college, you're working, you're doing work study, we're not taking out student loans, you're getting scholarships. this is the [music] way it's going to be done.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside

the incomparable, the fabulous, the lovely Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited that you've joined us here on the Ramsay Show today. And some of you are going, >> "We are not Jade.

>> We're not, what happened to Jade and John?" [laughter] And I have great news. They're both healthy. They're right out here to my left in the lobby of Ramsay Solutions. We got a camera on them so that the audience who's been watching are going to watch Oh, there they are.

There they are. >> They're okay. They're safe. They're sound.

Rachel and I just I mean about an hour or so or so ago landed from Los Angeles.

>> Yes. We had an event last night. Yeah.

>> In in Seal Beach. We learned that in Kal

Beach. >> Seal Beach. Yeah. Close to Anaheim. But uh had an event there last night. Awesome crowd. So fun. Phenomenal.

>> It was kind of our last uh tour stop

doing Ramsey Show Lives, which was so fun. And uh yeah, we got up uh

>> early early and uh landed and we're back

in the studio. Um and because we made the efforts and the intentional decision to do that um because we have some bittersweet news to share with our audience. Ken, >> we do. We do. Uh so uh there's no other

way to say it than just to say it. Yeah.

>> But uh today, this show will be the last

show that I host of the Ramsay Show because uh my season at Ramsay is over

and it's been a phenomenal season. And uh let me just be very clear uh I am doing what I have coached people for many many years to do. When when an opportunity comes to you uh you should listen and then you should weigh it and you should weigh it based on is this something that I believe I have the talent to do. Is this something that I can enjoy? Will I love this work? And

then finally does it create a result that I care about? Can I measure all of those things and say okay this is something? And then you have to ask, is this a challenge that will push me? Will

it will it push me in ways I haven't been pushed before? And what's on the other side of that? And without getting all the details, because of right now, I cannot get in the details. Um, and it doesn't matter, but uh stepping in a completely different lane. >> Yeah. >> Uh stepping uh into work that is u an

extension of what I've done, but no longer in a public personality role.

>> Yeah. >> And so here we are. And I want to say I I I had to tell Dave a couple weeks ago and uh it it was such a sweet time. We spent a couple hours together and um I

told Dave and I and I want the audience to hear this. Uh this opportunity that I'm so blessed to take uh would not happen if it wasn't for Dave believing in me. >> And that's huge. >> Yeah. >> And uh and we've had so much fun and we've helped so many people and and so as we began to discuss, okay, what does that look like? uh Dave in his grace and

his goodness said finish strong and uh so here we are. Yeah.

>> And so we flew [laughter] >> which is so weird that it's been a couple of weeks since we've known. >> Yeah. But today's weird >> uh and today Yes. And it is it is so it's so bittersweet. Um because from the

bottom of our hearts I know our team >> and [snorts] you know John and Jader sent Oh my gosh.

I don't want to get I don't Yeah.

>> Let me see. Hold on. I know. Hold on one second. [snorts] Um,

>> yeah. >> Everyone, every now you're doing it.

>> Uh, no. I was going to say though, everyone is so happy for you.

>> Thanks. >> We really are, Kent. We are cheering for you. You're going to kill it. Um, but we're going to miss you.

>> How am I supposed to talk? >> I know. It's um Ken Coleman is one of

these people, y'all, that he's like, we've all said it. George, John and Jade and I and Ken, we've been on a text thread for the last like couple years obviously and the word that keeps coming up consistently Ken for you is the glue. We say Ken is our glue.

Like Ken, we every personality loves

hosting with Ken. This show specifically like on our schedules when you get the email for the week and you're like, "Okay, who am I hosting with?" We love hosting with each other. Obviously, we all love each other. But when it's Ken, it's it's safe.

You're just like, "Okay, good. He's like your big brother." And you're like, "Okay." uh when we're on stage together, he can have chemistry with anybody on stage. He's a masterful interviewer, which is what he did even before he stepped into a Ramsay personality role. He's so good at connecting with people.

[snorts] And it is that is a gift, y'all.

It's awkward, hard to talk to. [laughter] John's raising his hand out there. No, but Ken can bring bring the goodness out of anyone that he is with.

and the fact that we've gotten to stand and sit beside him for so many years.

Um, >> it's gonna Yeah, you're killing me.

There's a there is there's going to be a hole and we're gonna we um Thank you.

>> We're dearly going to miss you. >> Well, I I never had a sister. Always wanted one. True story. Um I was nine

years old one day. I said to my dad, I said, "I really want a sister." And [snorts] I've got two. Um

Rachel, we've known each other a long time. And the other one is out there in the lobby. Uh Jade Horsoff. I mean, just

like I love these two. Uh they're so so

great. Great women, great friends, and um you know, it's uh Gez, I didn't know you were going to do this. >> I know. I was going to cry either. We're just tired. >> So, here we are. We got up at 4:00 a.m.

this morning. We don't even know who we are. I do want to say this to the audience because we're going to continue the show. We're going to coach people. is one of the loves of my life uh outside of my family and my friends is to meet people where they are. Um

it is

it's the [snorts] highest honor to have someone open up to you. You guys

know uh to trust you in a public

setting. My goodness. and the uh the

privilege to just be a small little

encouragement uh to people is um man and

to get paid for it and uh it's just been

such a high honor and and that's the honor to Dave and I and I I I'll tell you I um Dave and I cried and then I

went and hugged Miss Sharon [laughter] >> because >> you should tell him what actually >> should I tell him that story because that's funny when cut my >> Yeah. Oh, this will be good. Now we can laugh together. >> Yeah. Yeah. This is good.

>> So, I spent two hours with Dave. We just walked through it all and and uh and then I said I got up, we hugged, and I said, "Uh, [snorts] can I go tell Miss Sharon?" And uh he said, "Of course." And so, uh he walks me into the kitchen,

opens up the door from his he's got this fabulous smoking room above his garage, and we smell like an ashtray. We've been smoking cigars. He said, "SHARON, [laughter] KEN WANTS TO TALK TO YOU." And she said, "Oh, I'm in my house coat,

Ken." [laughter] And uh I love that she called it a house coat, by the way. >> It is a house coat. That's a southern thing right there. It's not a robe.

>> And I said to her, I go, "Let me see that because I think that's the robe that Stacy and [clears throat] I bought you." And sure enough, it was. >> Yeah. Ken bought Sharon. [laughter] >> I gifted Sharon and Dave my favorite robe.

Of course, that's what one does for friends. >> And she had it on. I was like, how serendipitous. >> So, I came over to her and um and she uh we had a sweet moment and uh got to give her a hug and she was just so sweet and so kind.

it's really really bittersweet. And I'll say this folks, sometimes you get opportunities, you don't know what God's completely up to. Uh and I don't know how it's going to all play out. Uh but uh you know, it's time.

It's time to walk through it. So, to all of you who've said kind things, emailed so many of our team are out there. They're making me cry. This is crazy.

I love all of y'all.

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[music]

>> All right, we're going to go to Hunter who's joining us now in Chattanooga.

Hunter, how can we help you today? [music] >> How are you guys? >> We're doing well. what's going on.

>> So, I'm a bit conflicted on what I should do as far as paying off my truck.

You know, I've been listening to y'all since right after I bought it. And I know y'all say to attack attack attack at the debt, but my uncle, who is like

another father figure to me, really, he says that he thinks I should wait for at least a year or two to build some credit

before I completely pay it off.

>> Oh, yeah. So, keep the debt around so your credit score stays um somewhat at

at a good score is what he's telling you, >> right? >> Okay. Do you know um how a credit score

is calculated, Hunter? And do you know why you use it? Why you would need a credit score?

>> I mean, I know it helps with like interest rates, I feel like, on loans, but I don't know. I'm not a genius. I'm 20, so I don't know everything, right?

>> Totally. Yeah. So, so the way mathematically your credit score is calculated has to do all with debt. So, it's all the different types of debt you have, how uh how you pay on those debts monthly, if it's on time, if it's not. I mean, all of it is centered around debt because you're right, they use that score when you go into more debt. So,

our line of thinking here at Ramsey is to live a debt-free life, to not have

debt. So, you don't need loans. You don't need to get a personal loan or another car loan. You don't you don't need debt because you live on less than you make. You have a plan and that is

how you live your life with money is debt free. Now, one hangup people have is a mortgage and a mortgage is the one type of debt we won't yell at you for, but you can do manual underwriting. So, you can actually still get a mortgage with a credit score that is undetermined. So, people that don't have a credit score, you can still get a mortgage. So, all of that to say, Hunter, if you are a person that says, "I don't want debt, you know, I'm I'm

not going to be going into debt," then you don't need a credit score. Um, you

know, my credit score, you know, my credit score is undetermined.

>> Now, if you have a mortgage, obviously, that will still come into play. Um, but

all that to say, yeah, having a credit score is kind of a moot point if you're not going to live with debt. But if you want to live with debt and you know you're going to be getting loans in the future, then maybe you would need it.

But what how are you wanting to live, Hunter? Not what your uncle says and not what other people say. How do you want to live with your money?

>> Well, that was my thought. I didn't you know, I've been listening to y'all, like I said, since after I bought the truck.

So, I definitely don't want that. I don't like it. And I was also going to ask, how would y'all suggest paying it off? Cuz I'm at just over 9,000 left on

it and I have probably 13ish,000 total. >> Great. Is that your only debt?

>> Yeah, that's the only debt I >> Nice. >> Yeah. Well, we would tell you to pay it off today when you hang up because you're still going to have money left over in savings, right? And so that would be completing baby step two since this is your only debt.

And now, you know, you're on your way to baby step three completion. [clears throat] >> And you know, there's just no waiting on it since you've got the cash. What a what a wonderful thing to be able to do, right? You can just get it out of your life right now.

>> Uh I want to say it's $271.

>> So now that's $271 raise >> that you just gave yourself, >> right? >> Yep. So, um, yeah, I think you can, um,

respect your uncle and I'm sure he is a good man, but when it comes to money, we just have different philosophies than your uncle. So, you'll have to choose Hunter which uh, which one you want to choose, a debtree life, or you going to keep a debt around to keep a credit score to stay in the business and the cycle of debt? >> And because he's a father figure, I I would tell you, you can honor him. You can say, "Hey, uncle, um, this is what I'm going to do, and since you guys are so close, he's going to weigh in on it." And you can honor him and say, "Hey, here's why I'm going to do this, and here's why I don't need a credit score." And you can explain that to him.

And it doesn't sound like he's not going to be supportive. It's just that he has influence over you. And so, the way to do this is to just honor him. Explain it the way Rachel just laid it out to in your words, and I think he'll be fine.

And more importantly, you're going to be debtree and a lot more cash in your pocket as you start to make your way through life. How old are you?

>> Uh just 20. >> Oh man, >> you're 20. Oh yeah, Hunter. That this is a this is a lesson.

And I will tell you so many people listening and watching right now in their 40s, 50s, 30s are like, I wish I had done this at 20. If you can just avoid debt hunter and you just and you have a plan, you start saving and investing and and start working the baby steps. I'm telling you, >> you will be a multi-millionaire when you when you before retirement. Like, it's wild the numbers that can happen.

So, um >> that's your homework assignment, by the way, Hunter.

super simple, but you're going to be in that position and just start putting in some numbers, realistic numbers, and watch what Rachel's talking about happen before your very eyes. You're in great shape. Thanks for the call. Let's go to Dosy. Uh, well, we just left that area of California out there near Anaheim.

Uh, Dosy, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Okay. Um, sorry, I've been waiting a long time. I'm so excited. Um, so basically, my husband and I got out of debt in February of this year. One of the reasons we were able to get out of debt is we switched over to CHM ministries for our health insurance.

The only problem is they have a policy

that if you are pregnant, your due date

has to be after 300 days of being a member. Well, turns out we're pregnant and our due date is before that time.

So, so they can't uh cover the pregnancy

and birth. And so my question is, how do

we cash flow this? Because we just got the estimate from our midwives about

what the cost would be, and it's $24,000, >> which is not something that I think we can handle. Uh, our due date is in October, so we have six months.

>> Wow. >> To kind of come up with a a solution. I

was thinking home birth. I'm a lowrisk pregnancy, thankfully. So, I'm thinking home birth, birthing center, something that's not a hospital because that's where the main chunk is coming from.

>> Okay. So, just give us quick update. If you were to not have the baby at a hospital, how much would come out off of that total?

>> Yeah. So, I checked one birthing center that I'm actually going to go to a consultation today. That would be around

uh 8,600 for the entire thing. Could you

guys get 8,000 uh call it 8,500 before

October? >> I think so. However, it's still with

pregnancy, I know Rachel knows this and you have uh kids, Ken, but with pregnancy, um there's always the risk

even with a lowrisk pregnancy. Oh, yeah.

I would have to be transported to a hospital. And so, >> how do we prepare for the those that emergency? >> Yes. Well, what I would say first, Dossi, is is we want you and your baby to be safe.

So, whatever that looks like for you all in a situation is you need to you need to go forward with the safest option, right? Life life is the most important thing in this equation over money. Okay? So, you guys need to make the best decision for you all.

Um, but because of your circumstances, you're going to have to know ahead of time, hey, if this happens, plan A, plan B, plan C, here's probably what we're going to owe in medical bills. And um and it is so difficult cuz medical bills, you know, a lot of people face that. That is part of their debt snowball. And so what I would say is whatever you can save between now and then and save as much as possible.

Save over the 8,000. I mean, just as much as you can. And then I think my goal would be for you to be healthy, for baby to be healthy. And then we pick up um after, you know, everyone goes home and everyone's good, then we look at our financial situation then.

hard one. I wasn't sure about that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Because in a situation like that, I love that they went with Christian Healthcare Ministries, but there's this is one of those deals.

>> Yes. >> Where life has thrown you a curveball.

>> Yep. >> And and you're going to have to, you know, make do on that. And that's tough.

Hopefully everything goes well. I love that you've done your research. I had no idea that there were like birthing centers. This is like breaking news.

What? You didn't know this, Kim? >> Well, the way she said it sounds like it's at a strip mall or something. [laughter] Like a birthing center. Like you just roll into the parking lot and you know you're the 230.

>> So it's basically like it's not a home birth, not a hospital. It's like it's the middle option that people feel.

>> Is it like a clinic? >> Yeah. I mean I think so. I didn't I did not have I didn't go to a birthing center for but it's people that don't want to do traditional. I appreciate that. You know, medicine and they want to do a different route. It's more of a natural route I would say is the birthing center. Um, >> is the home birth even [snorts] less money, I guess? >> Yeah. You're [music] just >> just some more risk.

>> Yeah. I mean, >> yeah. So, uh, >> it's like pioneer woman type. >> That's why I'm saying like do the safe option of what you believe in and then you can worry about the money after.

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[music]

>> All right, we're going to go to Indianapolis where Beth is waiting [music] for us. Beth, how can we help today?

>> Oh, hi. Um, congratulations, Ken, on

your new venture. And, um, Rachel, I

love your show with George. [music] It's really relatable. And >> thank you, Beth. >> We should have had a cocktail today, shouldn't we, Beth? [laughter] THIS WAS THE DAY. >> I KNOW. I'M LIKE, WHAT a day to call in.

They're both bald. >> I know. I know. Bring more sadness.

>> I know. We're gonna try to Don't bring it up again. I might start crying right now, Beth. We just never know. You never know how it's going [laughter] to go. Thank you for listening. How can we help? >> Yeah. Oh, I'm just um I've really

started to notice how close retirement is. I'm basically 56 in a couple of

days. Um and I only have $27,000 in my

401k currently. Um, and I am just nervous,

um, and wondering, you know, if you've had experience with callers who've been in this position and if they if you

followed up with them in 15 years, [laughter] you'll see if they're they're living comfortably.

>> That would be a that would be a good reality show. We should uh we should have done that. We should we should do that going forward. Um, okay. Okay. So, Beth, what um from a financial

perspective, how are you financially? Do you have debt? Do you still have a mortgage? Kind of where are you at?

>> That's right. Okay. I am on um step two.

The only debt I have is my mortgage. Um it's 155K.

Um house value is about 250 270K.

>> Okay. >> Um and I have a roof loan uh 15K.

>> Okay. uh debt that I really stupidly

signed up for a 20-year loan on [laughter] um that I just I just wasn't I don't

know. I was aware of everything three years ago and now I am >> and I've run some calculators and I can save >> about $15,000 in interest if I attack it

going forward. >> Um so that's my plan. Um, >> okay. So, your 15,000 from the roof is really your baby step two because we don't count your house inside of baby step two. So, it's really just that $15,000 roof. Uh, do you have any other

savings besides this 27,000 that's in your 401k?

>> No, it's been um week to week for my

entire adult life. I >> Wow. Well, single income obviously.

>> Um Oh, um 66k.

Um, so you know, it's not terrible. I've

just been um, uh, the sole financial

provider for a couple of, well, they're not kids anymore. Technically, they're 18 and well, okay, 32.

>> Um, and she did do I had my daughter in

private school, uh, high school. She went to public school, K through eight, but, um, it was just a much >> a better fit, um, for high school. So, anyway. >> Yes. Okay. So, what I would tell you, Beth, is um yeah, the Yeah, you'll

probably still be working, I would say, for the next foreseeable future. Are you in a pretty steady position of your job?

Like, if you had to work another 10 years, are you >> in a good spot? >> Oh. Oh, I'm so fortunate. I I work from

home for a major insurance company. Um

so, it's it's quite secure.

>> Okay, great. how much um so you are kind of you are paycheck to paycheck so there's not a lot of margin that you have to throw at this 15,000. So that's the first goal I would have for you is to get $1,000 put that aside in a high yield savings account you can open up um with Fairwinds actually like there's a smart bundle and so they have a great high yield savings account in that smart bundle. So, Fairwinds is a good spot and you can just put your $1,000 over there and that high yield savings.

And then we got to figure out, okay, how do we work extra? >> What expenses can we cut? There may not be a lot >> um to cut. So, it's probably going to be from the income side, which actually Ken probably could speak to some of that, but >> getting your income up and having a goal.

You know, you just think by the end of this calendar year, if that 15,000 is paid off and it's done, then we can really start looking to cash flow and emergency fund and start throwing a ton at retirement because that's that's going to be huge. But the faster you get out of this 15,000 roof loan, the quicker you can get to saving more for retirement in that 401k.

>> One of the things I wanted to know is you said you've been living kind of paycheck to paycheck and so I'm wondering is there is there anything you

can cut? And I'm not going to make you list it out for us, but it's more of a general question. Do you feel like you could be tighter or are you as tight as you can be on spending?

>> Um, well, I personally, for myself as

the mom, I'm very frugal, but I do give

in quite often to my teenage daughter.

Um, especially the first two years of high school. You know, their eyes are big as foster plates for everything they see on social media. Um, but I just

finally wised up to myself and for the past two years, you know, she's pretty much paid for anything. But, um, anyway,

since she's 18, just to be honest, once

that'll be a huge >> So, what kind of Okay, so let's just run some quick numbers. You don't have to lock these in, but what kind of margin would you now have? Even if we just said today, you're not other than the basics, how much could you put >> extra towards the snowball?

Well, I'm planning like once she's kind of not Oh, when once high school tuition is gone and I'm not spending on her, >> um I can probably put 800 to the roof

loan monthly and then after my other expenses, um I think I would have about three or

500 left. >> Okay, so let's just say for conversation. Okay. And again, you need to do your own exercise on this after the call, but let's just say we we came up with $1,000 a month. And I think we could find it in those numbers you just gave us. Okay. >> I think so, too. >> Absolutely. So, now all of a sudden, that's $12,000 a year >> just in just on what's coming into you now from your day job. Okay.

>> So, now we move into, okay, what can you do? What what is your profession?

I um I work for a health insurance

company. Um I I just review hospital

contracts. I've actually been with them for since 1998, which is why it's so

probably shocking to you that I only have 27,000 [laughter] in my um >> No, no, we certainly understand. I guess what I'm trying to get at here is is if that's clerical type work or administrative type work, could you pick up to Rachel's point, 15 to 20 hours a

week at this stage of your life? You have the freedom because your youngest is 18. >> Yes. >> So now >> extra extra. >> So here's where we're going. Could we make and I'm putting out some general numbers, Beth, that aren't too big so that you can hopefully grasp this. But let's say you made an extra two grand a month. Okay, now that's See, now you're with us, right? So now we're talking $24,000 gross on top of $12,000

a year. And to and I just wanted to put real numbers to Rachel's advice because she gave you a wonderful plan, but you're going to have to get super intense >> because you are 56 or soon to be 56 and

so we want to get that nest egg up and so you want to be in a position where you're throwing a lot of money away. And let's say we get through the um uh the

loan and now we get to the emergency fund and now we're just straight baby step four where you're just you're just throwing money. You know, how much could you invest? You have to ask yourself, how much could I invest on the other side of those two steps? And now uh now

you've got a chance to stack cash for the next 10 years.

>> Yes. And that is that is my goal. And um

I do have a couple of applications out for part-time because my life is about to be freed up.

It's just going to be a whole new world.

>> And what's crazy too is if you keep throwing that extra money and maybe you get a raise with your 66,000 all of that, you could have your home paid off >> in fourish years, too. And so if that How much is your mortgage? How much How much is your mortgage payment a month? >> Oh my gosh. Um well, it's 1,100 and my

mortgage would go until I'm 82.

That does not seem right.

>> Yep. Nope. So, we're gonna pay we're going to continue kind of a little bit of this intense you're gonna have some intense years coming ahead Beth because we got to play a little bit of catch-up.

And so, um after this Yep. after the roof's gone, funding 15% of your income into retirement, throwing some at the house, get that house paid off in 3 to four years if you can. And then you can look up and be like, "Okay, now I'm going to just like throw everything at this." And then and I mean we're throwing years out there, but you look up that you do all this in five years, right? >> And then you work another five and you throw more cash at retirement.

That's a that's a decade long. That can change completely your financial future, Beth, cuz you're doing something completely different than you haven't [music] than you've ever have. So, um yeah, call us back if you need us, Beth. But we're cheering you on and the numbers are there.

[music]

Heat. Heat.

[music]

All right, folks. Buying or selling your home is a big deal. You know that. And there's a lot of clickbait stuff out there that can get you trapped, give you some opinions that are going to hurt you. Uh, a lot of headlines that aren't even accurate or up to date. And we're here to make sure that the latest trends are easy to understand. Uh, so if you want to know what happened last month, the average 15-year fixed mortgage rate ticked up a bit to 5.56.

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That's rammissysolutions.commarket.

All right, Lauren is up next in Salt Lake City. Lauren, how can we help you today?

>> Hey, thank you guys for taking my calls.

So, my question is, should I move out of my parents house when I have debt?

>> Oh, it's a good question. >> Wow. Tell us more. How much debt?

>> So, I Yeah, I'm a real estate agent and

I've been a realtor for about three years. This is the first year that I'm consistent. So, I'm like making money now and I have about $10,500

in credit card debt. I don't have student loans and I've been listening to you guys show for a while. So, I I started the beginning of the year with 20K in debt. And I know it's a lot cuz like I live with my parents who don't charge me rent >> and so I calculate like all of my numbers. I just have them here for you guys. So, right now I have about $11,000

cash that sits in my business account just cuz I don't really know what to do when I get my cash, especially with my job and income. Like, I would say I make around 40 to $60,000 a year, but it's

variable. And like I said, this is my first year consistent.

Um, >> include my car. >> How many houses did you sell uh to achieve that number? I'm just curious.

What number? Depend.

>> What you made? No, what you made. I know it's your first year. I was just curious how many houses you sell to make that income.

>> Yeah. So, I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. Our median home price is 515 and

for this year, I'm already at about four houses um with one pending.

>> Okay. But what I'm saying is, is that going to put you ahead of what you made last year?

Correct. Yes, I'm already on track. Like last year, my income was all over the place, right? Because I was kind of still working part-time at another job.

I worked for a builder and then I got right back into residential. So now I'm a solo realtor. So from about December to now, I'm only doing real estate.

>> Great. And and a modest guess, what do you think you'll sell this year if you were to project out? >> Really? Yes. I think I will make around

50. Well, that's also me being like, you know, this is my first year consistent. I'm maybe a little scared, but I'd like to say 50 to 60,000 for the year.

>> Okay, perfect. >> We just want to know kind of what your income situation is because it's it's important to how you get out of this and how quickly. >> Yep. Um Okay. So, you're So, you're

keeping the $11,000 cash, you said, in my business account. Are there business expenses you have or is this more when you said because you also said in the same breath I just don't know what to do with all my cash so I'm just putting it away. So when you say business account what are you using this money for when it comes to your business? >> Yep. So you're absolutely right. It just sits in my account and I have like automatic transfers that do my car payment, my phone bill

expenses. >> You have a car loan? >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. How much is the car loan? >> Yes. So I owe $19,000 on my car. My car

payment is 380 a month.

>> Okay. So, it's not really a business account. It's just your It's It's a type of checking that you're living off of, right? >> Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um Okay. So, if I were you How old are

you, Lauren?

>> I'm 26. >> 26. Okay, great. And you've already paid off 10,000 in in debt already this year in four months, >> correct? >> That's amazing. Okay, well done. Okay, so here's probably what I would do. you have $11 $11,000 cash. Um, if you if you

do the Ramsay plan and you do the baby steps, I mean, by today, I would pay off the credit cards because your interest rate, how much is that on the credit cards? >> Yeah. So, my interest rate on my credit card is 27%.

>> Get be done. Be done. Because you're paying so much in interest. Like, I would pay that off today, Lauren, and you're going to have $1,000, which is going to freak you out. And that's okay because you're making some money. And then I would and then I would be okay with you, Ken may have a different opinion because of how quickly you have paid off debt. Um I would be okay with

you staying maybe through the summer at your parents and continue that same trajectory and then come fall, even if you still have some on the car loan because if you're if you're kind of at that same pace, you know, you'll probably have around $9,000 left on your car. I probably still would look to see, hey, let me go rent somewhere because there's just something good about being 26 years old and out on your own. Yeah. Um, so at some point I would have a deadline to say, I'm going to move out.

Uh, it doesn't have to be tomorrow and maybe you kind of through the summer. And one reason I'm okay with you staying a little bit longer is because you actually are doing what you said you're going to do, which is to pay off debt. Because we call we a lot of people call in, Lauren, and they're like, "Well, I'm living with my parents." We're like, "Okay, well, how much have you saved or paid off?" And they're like, "Uh, not a ton. maybe like $1,000 over three months and we're like, "What are you doing?" Like like you're supposed to be saving rent and you're you really are putting your money >> to something good that's being that's productive, right?

It's not just like upping your lifestyle. So because of that sacrifice, I'm okay if you stay a little bit, but I don't want you to stay. I mean, past probably four to five, six months. >> I agree.

Yeah, Lauren, we don't what you don't what you don't want to happen is that you fall into this rut of the comfort and it doesn't have the same psychological intensity of being out on your own. And uh I think you need this right now.

Residential homes in that area. Is it is

it a is it is it cooled? Is it uh just

kind of, you know, moving along on an average pace? Is it above pace? Where is the market?

>> I would say it's an average pace. I don't obviously like interest rates are going higher, but in Utah, I'm seeing people get two to three houses under contract a month. So, I know our market is active. You know, we do have a really good career base in Utah. So, people are making money. >> Good. Okay. The reason I asked that is you as a real estate pro who is

full-time, >> you can make yourself very very wealthy

and and so, you know, we talk about Gazelle Intensity on this show all the time, right? And in your case, I want to see you getting mentored by some real estate agents in your area that would be willing to take you under their wing. uh and you are trying to fill up your pipeline with everything you've got in you because if you were to sell five or six houses in one month, what a major

infusion of cash that would be. Yes or no? >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. >> And then you get that going and so you could fast forward this entire process and you're only 26. So, um, because

you're in a decent market, uh, by your

own, uh, admission here, uh, I would be working like crazy to sell house list. I mean, I'd get in on every deal I could get in on because every time you get a commission check, you are just moving through the baby steps. And I love that for you. Love that for you.

>> 100%. >> Yeah. And you're in a great industry. >> I don't think I mentioned. So, I do I did follow the baby steps. I have about I would say like $1,600 saved and that's

not on top of the $11,000 that I have sitting in that account. So, I'm trying to get something in there. I just didn't know what to do with that cash that I

have on hand. >> Yep. That's where I would I would get out of debt. That's your number one goal right now is to be debtree.

So, any money you have and you have no expenses like there's no good news. >> You're not paying you know what I mean? You're not paying rent, utilities, all of that. Now, you will eventually.

So, you need to be thinking through, okay, when that when you do make that step, you need to do kind of a mock budget before just to know because it'll slow down your your debt process, right? It will slow down how much you're putting towards debt because you're going to be paying rent and all of that.

and holding yourself, right? And you can, Lauren, you are you're you can you can afford it. Um, so, um, yeah, I think

if you just make a timeline plan on when you're going to move out, put some numbers and then make a make some big goals like what Ken was [music] saying, you can I mean, you could go crazy and just say, "What if I had this crazy goal of selling this? What would that look like?" And put it down on paper. >> Yeah.

[music]

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show coming to you from the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. Thrilled to have you with us. the phone number to jump in.8825-55225LE88255225.

Daryl is going to start us off in Columbia, Missouri. Daryl, how can we help today?

>> Hey guys, I got a question for you. Um,

I don't owe uh me and my wife have no debt except for our house and I'm debating on paying off the house and able or in order to do that, I have our

emergency fund um that has 22,000 in it.

And then I have another saving savings account that has 28,000 in it. And uh I

know that doesn't equal up to 70 yet.

I'm just I'm going to have a few more jobs come in in the next couple months that'll get me to that point. And I'm

wondering if I should, you know, trade

in my savings account to pay off the house. >> To pay off the mortgage. Well, that's exciting. The fact that this is even a possibility. So, how much is left on the house?

>> 70,000. >> 70,000. Okay. >> So, you're calling us today wanting to know if you can get ahead of this deal when we know in a couple of months that you're going to have it to be able to pay it off. So, it's the difference between paying it off today or close to because you don't have the full 70 there. So, that's an interesting question.

What's going on? You just nervous you're not going to be able to get it done or like what what what's the equation?

>> No. Uh well, okay, so there there is a few other things going on. Um we've been in this house for eight years now. We've

actually gone through the process of dividing up my property and I do plan on building a house um another house on the north part of our property. Um, along with that, I am

also in need of a truck. But at this point, I've just kind of looked at our mortgage. I'm like, man, I've got 70,000 left on the mortgage, and I've got this much in savings. I'm almost there to paying off the mortgage. Um, I'm just not sure what the right next move for me is. >> So, is the 22,000 your fully funded emergency fund, or is it the 28?

>> The 22. >> Is that three months or six months?

I think that's closer to three months.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I don't know. He's >> just living on the edge. Daryl's just [laughter] first of all, Darl, you're doing it right. I you know, if I'm you >> uh and you need a truck

>> um and you've got this additional cash beyond uh what what kind of truck are you looking to buy? What what would the cost be?

>> I'm looking at truck in the cost of 30,000. >> Okay. So, you're almost there. something finally that would be maybe reliable.

>> Okay. What's your truck worth now? What if you sold it or traded it in? Probably not a ton, but what would it what would it bring? >> I had I had an old Suburban that I drove around. Um, and I just sold her for $3,000. >> For three. Okay. So, you don't have a car right now. >> I was happy to get rid of her. >> I love that you effectually called it her. >> What a gal. What a gal [laughter] that suburban's been. >> Her name is Veronica.

>> I love that. >> We knew she had a name. >> I was going to say this. I wasn't going to say this until Daryl said this. So, uh, we had two Suburbans as the kids were growing up. You probably saw them in the parking lot from time to time here at Ramsey. And, uh, the first one was Betsy the B, and then we had a, it

was kind of silver, and then we went to a black suburban, and we called him Bruce. So, I like that Daryl has a name, Veronica, for the >> Veronica's gone now. >> But, but, [laughter] Daryl, how are you getting around right now since you sold poor Veronica?

>> I have I have another small car that I >> Oh, okay. >> that I use. >> Okay. Uh, >> what do you think here? I mean, he's so close to paying the house off, but he needs a car. >> Yeah, I mean, how bad do you need this truck? Could you wait another six months, or do you Are you like, "No, I I need to I need to get it now." >> Um, I'm on the fence. I I'm doing So, I

don't really necessarily need a truck for my job that I work at. However, I do have a side uh job that I do. I'm a professional land surveyor, and so I do use my my car.

>> Okay. um all my service and that and I

go is that >> okay so if we ran a couple of scenarios and said let's say that 28,000 went to the truck >> we're not going to touch the emergency fund so that's off the table so you're back now to kind of flat so between now

and in a couple of months you said you have some jobs coming in how much will you make off those jobs in the next couple of months >> um close to close to 10,000 >> to 10 okay so then you're down to 60,000 on the mortgage and then how much extra how much extra do you throw at the mortgage every month?

>> We are doing I'm looking at my wife right now. She's shaking her head. Not much. [laughter] I think there's a couple hundred extra a month and and our mortgage is only you know principal and interest is like 670 is the payment.

>> Okay. >> I think actually we put a thousand in there and you know the other part of that goes to >> and what's the financial windfall that you mentioned a few minutes ago that you're expecting in a couple months which would have gotten you over the 70.

How much is that? Do you have an idea?

Oh, how much am I planning on making?

>> Yeah, you you mentioned that you >> That was the extra job. So, >> the extra money you were thinking, was that the 10,000?

>> Yeah, that was that extra 10,000.

>> Oh, it's just 10 that get I got you.

>> Um, okay. So, that's scenario one, Darl.

You buy the truck, and then you take the 10,000, throw it at the mortgage, and you just kind of keep chipping away at the mortgage. That's option one. Option two is you get um a $20,000 truck. Yeah,

>> throw an extra eight at the house, right? You can change that up a little.

Um or you throw all 28 and then you'll have the 10. >> Um so yeah, you're close to 40 at that point. Only $30,000 left. So yeah, I mean there's not really a wrong >> I don't think there's a wrong scenario here. I think it's kind of just what you want to do. And we and we don't say to be intense during >> paying off your home. So you're okay.

>> Yeah, you're so close. If I needed a car, I just tell you what I would do if I was in your situation. I had the cash for the for the truck. I'd get the truck. Um, unless I could I don't need it. And if you don't need it, to Rachel's point, then again, get it on the on the other side of paying the mortgage off. But you're in such great shape. >> What does your wife your wife sitting down? She's sitting there. >> What does she What does she want to do?

>> What does she want to do? Well, um, she's a little she's a little nervous about paying off the house.

>> Why? um uh because it has we have a good

interest rate on it >> and we're also obviously planning we're also obviously planning on building another house.

>> I wouldn't worry about the other H. Is the other house for you guys?

>> Yes, I I think we'd plan on moving on in it and then either renting this out, the one we're in now, or selling it.

Now, see, now that changes this conversation a little bit because do you really want to be a landlord and how much you you know, I mean, is that really something you want to do or would you rather just sell the current house >> and and then go build the new house?

>> Like, what do you want more? >> That those are good questions and I don't have [laughter] answers. >> Well, that's that's why you need the answers. >> In my head, you're jumping you're jumping ahead.

>> I agree >> with that second half. >> This is a steak dinner, candle light, maybe a bottle of red. and you two sit down and weigh this out and go, "Okay, do we want to to have the current home we're in as a rental property?" Now, it becomes obviously real estate investment for you that's cash and you don't owe a dime on it. Uh or do we want to move quicker into building another house?

Do I need the truck? Now, like lay it all out there and get everybody's opinions in the middle of the table, you and your wife, and then just do the old school pros and cons and come up with a list and then execute on it. >> Yeah. Because the truth is, Darl, in five years, I think you're going to end up in the same place.

>> However you get there, you're going to get there. And so there's not really a bad option here. Um, >> so yeah, it's kind of whatever you want to do with the 28,000. If you want to get the truck, get the truck. You want to throw at the house. Yeah. But you guys, you and your wife uh agree on it

and say, does this get us to our long-term goals faster or slower? And that may that may be the difference. Real quick, Rachel, lady to lady, talk to his wife about that interest rate fear she has. What would you tell her?

>> Oh, I would have way less fear not owing anyone anything than having a [music] mortgage payment. So, that's my rationale.

[music]

Hey good folks, Dr. John Deloney here.

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That's ramseyolutions.com/careers.

Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsay principles. Excuse [clears throat] me.

And today we're going to break down uh the most asked questions from this week.

Rachel, we had some questions around retirement savings, uh paying off debt.

>> Uh but the most asked question was around emergency funds. So, the main question we got was, "Where is the best place to store my emergency fund?"

That's a good question. We get that a lot. >> You know what? And I get this a lot in in the social media world, like my DMs.

I get a lot of questions about um because we always talk about a high yield savings account is is the best place >> because the money you can get to it if you need it, but also it's making around probably 3 4% depending on the account

um versus less than 1% just in a traditional savings account. So, a high yield savings account is where it's at. And we love Fairwinds Credit Union. Um, we've been partnering with them and they obviously are the studio sponsor of the show, but um, they they honestly probably have the best deal because they they're doing a smart bundle where you get a no fee checking account and then you can get up to 10 high yield savings accounts.

So, for all the nerdy people like a George Camel who loves all his different all his different savings accounts, you know, for each little thing that he's doing and you can do up to 10 with Fair Winds and you get uh the debit card access. It's such an easy interface like their app and everything is great. So, that's what Winston and I use. We use Fairwinds.

We love them. Um, and that's a great place to put your emergency fund in in their high yield savings account. >> Love it. So, uh, if you'd love to submit your question, go to ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching via YouTube.

Let's go to San Diego next where Tom is waiting. Tom, how can we help? >> Hey, so I have a question. I'm 52.

wife and I are in a pretty good financial position.

Um, I recently separated with my company about a year and a half ago and I'm deciding if trying to start my own company over at this age or just go work for someone and take a couple years and be fine. You know, coming from a running a small business, it's tough to sell and get out. So, I don't know if I want to grow something like that.

>> What would you grow? Do you know what you'd start? >> Uh, so I'm a plumber by trade and a mechanical and builder. So it would be in the in that field which I have about 37 years of experience in.

>> I love that. And and my guess is 37 years of working for a good company.

Right. >> Well, actually 17 years of it was being partners in a company. >> Oh, >> where I was the minority partner and we had disagreements on where the company was going and I wound up this odd man out. >> Well, but I'm guessing that you had uh eyes on all the books. You have a pretty good idea how to run a company that you're talking about, correct?

>> Oh, yeah. President of operations. I built all the accounting software, all the integrations and everything.

>> So, uh, what I'm hearing, Rachel, uh, I'm hearing want to, and I hear, uh, you

you got the how to. So, now it's what is

it going to take to get started? And I'm I'm assuming you've run some numbers on that. So, what do you think it's going to cost to start one of these companies?

I think the biggest problem is cash out big commercial stuff. >> We got you in a wind tunnel here. Say that again. You broke up really bad.

>> Oh, I said the biggest problem is cash out of pocket for funding all these projects that owners don't want to pay upfront. So, you wind up with huge upfront cost. And my wife and I own two houses and have some money in the bank and don't have any debt. So, do you want

to start playing that game at this age?

>> No. And I don't think I don't think you have to play that game. I'm going to poke on that a little bit. Uh, are we talking about plumbing? What? Let's pick Let's pick one. Let's pick one discipline. Let's pick one trade for this conversation.

>> So, let's just put it this way. I specialized in healthc care, building hospitals and remodeling hospitals as a general and as plumbing and mechanical systems. >> Okay. But I'm saying this business, let's say you have all the cash in the world to start today. What is the business?

probably plumbing and mechanical systems, you know, HVAC and plumbing.

>> Okay. And it would be and it would not be for residential, it would be uh uh corporate, correct?

>> Yeah. Mostly commercial. That's >> Thank you. I couldn't think come up the word. So, if it's commercial, so what you're saying is Yeah. And that's that's really good money. And And you're saying you would have to front because what they're doing is they're going you go buy all the supplies, everything, and then invoices. That's what I'm understanding. >> Yeah. And the invoices are 30 45 days before they pay 60 days. You know, the contracts they take a retention payment.

So 10% out and you're running this I got you now. Yeah. And those are big and those are big jobs. The commercial jobs.

My father-in-law owns a heating and air company, but it's he does some some commercial mostly residential, but I mean they have crews. So would you hire >> if you went down that route? Do you have >> people that you know that you're like, "Oh yeah, I could hire these guys for this crew and all." I mean because you're starting I mean that's a that's a big operation.

Yeah, that's why I'm like, you know, we have we own two homes.

>> Okay, let's let's go down that route. >> Million and a half bucks in the bank.

>> You have how much? >> A million and a half. >> But is that retirement or cash?

>> It's uh 401k in cash.

>> Okay. Well, we're not going to touch the 401k. >> No. >> Uh how much cash? Parcel that out.

>> 900. >> You have 900,000 in cash. Okay.

>> Between my wife and I. >> I understand. And then what if you sold one of the homes, what would you clear on one of the houses?

>> Well, well, the one in San Diego, we probably wouldn't sell 2.4.

>> Well, but I'm trying >> on it outright, >> right? But I'm saying to come up with some capital, I would absolutely look at selling one of those houses if the sale of that home gave you that startup that you needed, that startup cost.

>> Yeah. >> And if you want to do it, do do you want to do do you want to start all this? I mean, I don't know, but >> that's a question. The riskreward is what's got me perplexed on it.

>> Well, I know that's why we're in a pretty good financial position to take a

big risk. >> What's your income right now?

>> Uh, so we have some income property. We have about 10 grand a month coming in.

>> That's your only income is their properties. You're not working >> right now. I work for a year and a half and I and I'm still getting paid off from my old company which they're they're buying me out. >> All right. Well, Tom, we're having the hardest time with your phone. So, I I'll boil it down to this. Um, appreciate the call. we can't make that call for you.

What you heard us do was walk through

what your options are to come up with cash if you wanted to launch this company. But I thought Rachel was very insightful by just putting it to you and you're still going, I don't know if I want to do it. And so I I will tell you, Rachel, if someone if someone presents this to me and I'm coaching them, I'm going to say, all right, Tom, and this is by the way, your wife's got to be in on this conversation. >> And I think we have to look at the effort.

>> Yes. >> The risk. >> Yes. and the capital outlay.

big three. And there are uh emotions,

there are logistics, there are consequences to uh walking through that

checklist, Rachel, >> 100%. >> And if we walk through that checklist, those are the big three. You guys can get as specific as you want, but if we walk through those those big three and we go, I still want to do it if this is you, Tom. And then your wife goes, okay,

I'm in. >> Yep. Then I say go for it. But let's

mitigate the risk, Rachel.

>> 100%. >> In other words, we got to say, I'm risking this much. >> Yeah. >> And at the worst case scenario, we only lose this and we're still okay.

>> Yeah. My my only, you know, thought and I think it's more of a personality thing, Ken, because at this point, moneywise, they're fine. Like he he can go get another job. Yeah. All of it.

>> Um but at this point, it's a personality passion thing of Yeah. I still want to get up and and grind it because when when I when he first said plumbing, electrical, I thought, okay, you know, he could probably start a small plumbing company, get one or two guys under him, they can go do some residential. He's like, oh no, I'm doing hospital [gasps] >> hospitals and massive commercial properties. So starting that to me in my head went from a two to like a you're a 910.

Like that's a lot. Yeah, >> but also it's doable if that's what you want in kind of the second half of your life, Tom, to grow something and sell it and >> you know, um that's if that's exciting and fun, that's great.

>> In four years, I'm probably going to want to retire. If I may go work for someone, make some good money. >> Yeah. >> Still make some good money doing it. And then >> yeah, I mean, [clears throat] >> chill. But that's a that's a personality thing, too, you know, >> because that's a lot of effort.

>> Remember that effort bucket effort. He's got a good paying job and he's clearing 10 grand. >> Yeah. >> In real estate property. >> Right. Right. >> So Tom, I am a Listen, I am always going

to be the guy that says if my heart is telling me to do it, then I'm going to try to mitigate the risk involved because there's always risk.

>> Um, >> but we're all for jumping to a new idea, aren't we, Ken? That's the theme of the >> We are. [laughter] And my my the last person I worked for before Dave, John Maxwell, famously said, you got to give up to go up. Mhm. >> And I think this is a situation where if you want to go up to start this

business, you and your wife will be able to be on the same page about what we're giving up. Yes. >> There's always a trade-off.

[music]

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[music]

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All right, to Eric we go in De Moine, Iowa. Eric, how can we help?

Hey guys, thanks for taking the call.

Um, so I've got a I feel like I'm in a position to start investing, but on paper it doesn't feel like it as well. So I've got a income of about 156 to

200,000 a year, self-employed. Um, my wife's stay at home mom, got two kids, one on the way. Um, our primary home and

I have a rental property as well. So rental property is worth about 425,000.

The primary home is worth about 330,000

and the mortgages are $34,000

at 2.75% and 28,000 at 6 12%. Uh, and then I have

about $54,000 in debt to my parents.

Although I will caveat, I've got a great relationship with my parents. If anything were to ever happen, I'm confident they would just say either pause payments or they just forgive it.

Um anyway, um rental property, it's cash

flowing. Uh my rent is or I charge two

2500 a month and my the cost of a month is 2,000 bucks. So I and I've got about

80 to $85,000 in cash sitting in the

bank. So I'm trying to figure out I feel like I should be putting money Oh, sorry. In a Roth IRA, it's got about $100,000 in it. Okay.

>> So I'm trying to figure out I feel like I should be investing more. But yeah,

>> you got a lot going on, Eric. [laughter] My gosh. Okay. So, let's Okay, got to >> give you the quick version. >> No, it's great. No, we needed all those numbers. My My question is, is your rental property worth more than your primary home?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I bought a bachelor pad um before I got married. Uh I got married, my had a kid, and it was not a good fit for a for a house. So, yes, my rental property was my own house a while ago. >> Okay. >> And then >> And how much do you owe how much do you owe on it? How much is left on the mortgage?

>> 304,000.

304. Okay.

>> And how much is on your primary home?

How much is it worth or how much do you owe?

>> 28 280,000 on the primary.

>> 280. Okay.

Um and the only debt you have consumer-wise is the 54,000 to your parents, right? No car loans, no credit cards, student loans, none of that.

>> Correct. All that I I did pay off my wife's uh student loans. That was that was a check box. So, we did that. I was hoping to feel a little bit more relief from that. But >> yeah, so what's the Anyway, you touched on this real quick. What What is this burning desire with all the stuff you got going on? You feel like you need to be investing for retirement. Is that what I heard?

>> Um I've Yes. Uh I I used to be putting

away a bunch of money. You know, when I had a standard W2 job, I was investing.

Obviously, I've got 100,000 in a Roth and 401k. Um maybe it's 120. I don't know the exact number, but but I stopped doing that ever since. since I've become self-employed, >> right? >> Uh with this rental house and everything going on. I've got I technically have the cash, but we're trying to save up about 100,000. My wife's not a big fan of the current house that we're in.

>> Um and >> how familiar with how familiar with the baby steps are you?

>> Um admittedly, I went through FPU a long time ago, but that was pre everything,

so not not a ton. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Okay. >> Um Gosh. Okay. So, I always run these scenarios, Eric. If I woke up in your shoes, okay, and you called you called our show. So, if I woke up in your shoes, Eric, here's what I would do. I'd pay off your parents tonight.

And that brings your savings down to

28,000, which I would count as probably your fully funded emergency fund. You may want to throw a little bit more in there, but we can just set that in a high yield. We're done. Wife is not happy in the home. Um, and I would I

would run for simplification personally

>> of where you guys are. I probably would look to to sell the rental. Uh, you'll make about 120, probably 100 after fees

and everything. >> Uh, the home you're in now, you'll have some equity. I mean, you could throw possibly 175ish at a new home and you guys start,

you know, Yeah. having, you know, having that over here and then you go and you start investing 15% of your income and you got Do you guys have kids?

>> Three. Okay. >> Well, two and one on the way. >> All right. Yeah. And start working uh, you know, putting some money away for college for them and just start working the baby steps. But that's me, Eric.

Again, everyone has a different thing.

>> Well, I think I can feel on you, Eric, the stress that you have in your life.

>> And a new baby coming to >> Am I Am I feeling this or am I is it just bad pizza? What's What's going on?

>> Oh, no. Actually, I love this. I've I've I love all of this managing and keeping track of all this. >> Okay. So, you do love the >> But but you do Okay. So, you may not feel it what what I'm feeling, but you do want to simplify a little bit. You you or you or you're trying to at least strategize on how do I invest for retirement and you just can't do all of this at once and do it well.

>> I'm I'm worried that if I you know, I

always hear, you know, if I had $100,000 early on in a retirement, it'll grow even if you don't invest anything. So, I feel like I've checked the box of investing, but I feel like I should still be investing. I've got >> You should cash flow, >> but you're tapped out with everything else going on.

>> Yeah. The goal is to be funding 15% of your income into retirement consistently, continuing to build up that. So, that's but that's after you're debtree with an emergency fund, which could happen tonight, you know. So, um, so if you walk through the baby steps, yeah, I think there's a non-negotiable here that the 54,000 needs to be paid off.

And even if it's a great relationship with your parents, all of that, be done. Just be done with it. You'll have your fully funded emergency fund of 28,000. So, that's a non-negotiable.

or not? Um, but you need to be investing 15% of your income into retirement and then looking at this rental property and what you and your wife want. What do you guys want to be in five years? Do you want to be landlords and, you know, still have this property and hopefully be paying it off because you need to be paying that that you should be paying that off even before your primary home.

Yeah. >> Um, but yeah, it's just a lot of real estate and depending on >> what you want to do, Eric, right? If you want more money in the market or or some there. Do you enjoy the rental property?

>> Yeah. Well, I'm [clears throat] luckily I've got great tenants right now, but I know that could theoretically change. Yeah. And I I'm handy, so any any repairs and stuff I I do myself. So >> yeah. So So having a second home

long-term is good with both of you.

That's like part of your portfolio that you're good with.

>> That's correct. I feel like that's what I'm investing in right now. But >> yes. >> Yeah. So um so yeah, the only change up I would do is is start putting 15% away into your that's going to be your Roth. And then do you have a 401k at at your work?

>> Yes. >> Yep. So those two those two buckets need to start being filled consistently 15% of your income. And then [clears throat] above that is where you start paying off these um this real estate. So >> you know I'm just reminded of this old saying and you know you love my old saying. So I feel like I got to give you another one. >> Yes. Before we end [laughter] his old man if you chase two rabbits you

lose them both. And it feels like you're

trying to chase all the rabbits right now. And you're doing uh it sounds like you're doing a good job >> not criticizing you, but I think you have to decide again what are my priorities?

What matters most to me right now? How old are you, Eric?

>> 32. 33. Excuse me.

>> My man, you are really young. And um you

know, you you you can have it all, but rarely does someone have it all at the same time. And I that's my encouragement

to you. I hope you hear encouragement, not criticism. But I think that's what you're facing right now. Rachel nailed it. You two need to sit down together and decide what do we want right now and then what do we want in the future?

>> And $600,000 in real estate debt, that's a lot. So whether you feel that or not,

that's that's I mean that that's out there. you know what I mean? Um, >> so depending on how quickly you guys say, "We're going to keep these, but we're going to pay them off in the next four to five years, you know, and get radical and do what we can to get rid of to get rid of that debt, especially that um the rental property one." But yeah, I don't know, Eric. I There's just always time to invest in real estate in my head.

Do you know what I mean? And do it with cash. And do it with cash. >> I agree.

>> And there's just a lot of strain happening and [clears throat] in your life, too, right? You got two little kids and a baby coming >> away. >> Yeah. And I've been there.

When Dr. John says that, >> let's go. >> Solve for peace. And um >> you know how to get that many times. Just simplicity. >> Simplicity. I know. >> But he's 32. I love it. He's trying to >> The hustle is great. >> I love the hustle. But I I would downshift it into [music] simplicity.

And I think that'll be the piece that you're looking for. Thanks for listening and and uh hope we helped you out.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseyolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

[music] Our

scripture of the day comes from Psalm 90:12. Teach us to number our days that

we may gain a heart of wisdom. And the quote of the day, they snuck this in on me. [laughter] >> Uh I don't even remember saying this, uh

but it's my last segment on the Ramsay show. >> I know. So, I guess we close with one of my quotes. So, [laughter] dream big, ask for help, embrace failure, take the shot, and continue to climb one step at a time.

Well, that's appropriate.

>> Wow. >> Can >> So, uh quick quick uh rejoin. We uh

opened up this hour uh oh no, two hours

ago. It's gone by that fast. Um, >> it's my last uh time on the show uh as a

co-host and I'm so glad it's with you.

Uh, ending 12 years of service alongside

Dave, you uh so many amazing people here

on the team and uh so it's uh quite

weird, quite surreal.

>> It's bizarre. >> We already cried earlier.

>> Boohooed. >> We boohooed. [laughter] >> I can't get through this segment.

>> Yeah. So, uh, what a what a joy it's been. And I'm so glad that I if if I wasn't with Dave, who's out of the country, it's it's with you. And so, thank you. I know, Ken. Thank you for being here with me today. Thanks for all the the great memories. We've had some incredible memories. You helped a lot of people. >> Yes. Yes. >> And that's what's fun. >> Well, it's such a it's such a unique thing when you get to work and do this

kind of work, which is a little unique.

um together with people that you just love and you respect and you care for and um you know we're just talking I think we met 18 years ago. You've known I think Dave longer >> um and I you know and your family was walking in and seeing Josie. I mean I just remember you know you're you know Josie being that big and >> and Ty and Chase and Stacy who we just love so much.

we're we're being left >> but you do it's just the familiarity of

>> who you are and what you bring to the table. So, not only do I want people to know though for real that thank God all

of our personalities I can say this about um but for you specifically today you are what you get and the people on this show that you you know that have followed you um from the beginning uh of

your journey here at Ramsey or maybe they just joined in a month ago and you've been hosting here or front row seat um who Ken is in front of a camera

on a stage in front of a microphone is

is is come outside of this with his family, with his friends, and um that level of integrity is something you don't get all the time. >> Well, thank >> especially in this kind of job. And so that I want to say that, Ken, but also just the but but focusing on what you have done these 12 years.

>> Um and everything from the books and the shows. I'm just curious from you, what has been >> uh what's been one of your favorite things about your job? Like what do you what do you look back at? You're just like, it's that >> it's this. It's not even close. It is when you um experience a person on the

phone in this format or at a live event like we were at last night in uh in Long Beach, California.

>> When someone gets vulnerable enough

because they're they're not where they want to be >> many times in pain.

>> Yeah. >> And they trust us. I remember the first

time I did it, it's it's it's almost like you feel as though you're not worthy enough to try to help them. And then you get over that and then you begin to connect with them.

>> And uh the highest >> form of work for me has been just meeting people where they are. So you look at a guy who's weeping, whether it be a small business owner or uh a lady,

a single mom who's completely just underneath it. We had it on this last tour. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I think that when you get to step into those moments, u you

the you think that you're helping them and you get done with it and you go, "Oh my gosh, that helped my soul." >> And and here's where this ties in is because I do believe we were created to work. >> And I I think we're uniquely and wonderfully made. And I think when you can do that that for me like I enjoy the the pressure of being on the mic and all these buttons and you [laughter] know >> in and out of stuff. >> Yeah.

>> And so the most rewarding is to talk to you folks. Um I will miss this terribly.

Uh, I'll probably just find some guy in the grocery store and go, "Do you need to be coached for a moment?" [laughter] And you know, >> where are you when you're Yeah. >> the proximity principle. Lay this out for you. >> Can I ask some piercing questions for a moment? Uh, that's the highest uh honor I've had. That's the work I've enjoyed the most is is just being a small, and I do mean small uh part of watching people

transform their lives. I mean, the work we do here is about people, and that's the most rewarding. >> Yeah, I love that. I love it.

Okay, so we said because we boohooed the first time we we crying. I know. I came out of nowhere and I was like I think I've been up since 4 o' this morning.

He's like he's been talking this is what he coaches people to do and then when it happens Yeah. um you know and and you get to make this next step into something that is is different um but

but something that is so exciting for you. >> Yeah, I I um because of the sensitivity of the announcement, I can say that I'm be stepping into an executive role and I will be taking the experience and the skill set that I have developed over time before I got to Ramsey and then honed it uh at Ramsey and uh I'm going

to be helping communicate. That's what I love to do is to communicate. I love words. You know how much I love words.

>> Love Ken loves to talk. >> I love a good word. I do love to talk. I do love to [laughter] talk. Um and and I and I'm going to be in an executive role. Um and it's a major step up. This is what I've preached to people. Uh and this entire this entire opportunity came to me folks through a personal

relationship. >> It came through the real life proximity

principle of just being around highquality people. um and you have

conversations. Two of my favorite things to do is to connect with new people and

to get to know people. And uh I ask a

lot of questions and I just didn't know that I was asking questions that created >> Yeah. >> uh what is now an opportunity that uh and I want to be very clear here that God has completely opened the door and and then you're presented with okay I I

I've got a great gig.

>> Yeah. But this is a great challenge and I think it's probably core to who I am.

I hope everybody that's ever heard me coach believes that this is authentic to who I am. When God opens a door, I think you walk through it. >> Mhm. >> So, it's tough, very sad, uh, but also

excited. The analogy I gave to our team is what I'll give to the audience. I feel like um, you feel like when you read a good book, you're midway through the book and you start telling all your friends and family about it. OH, THIS BOOK IS SO GOOD. RIGHT.

>> YES. YES. and you're telling about it and what you're doing is you're talking about the past. You're talking about what you've experienced as a reader on those pages. And then when you get home that night, >> you can't wait to crack the next chapter. >> And I think that's where I'm at. Um and and I would close with this. I you know me, I got to close with a challenge.

>> Um >> to this audience, you come to us because

Dave so long ago said this is about

hope, right? Hope. And here I'm getting choked.

[snorts] So my favorite scripture, Isaiah 40

31.

>> You can do it. >> I got this. >> You can do it. Take a take a breath.

>> Those who wait on the Lord, in some translations, those who hope in the Lord shall mount up on wings like eagles.

says the description here is soaring.

There'll be seasons of your life where you're going to soar. And then Isaiah downshifts. And he goes, "Those who run

will not grow weary, and those who walk will not faint." And I think that's such a beautiful scripture for this audience.

My final challenge is that no matter

where you are on these baby steps, you are doing this because you long for freedom. The spirit of the Lord, the Bible says, brings liberty, freedom. And

so, I would want you, no matter how hard it is, wherever you are and however you're getting through these steps, don't miss what Dave based this entire company on in this show, hope. Where does that hope come from? The Lord.

He'll get you through. He's with you.

He's beside you. He's in front of you.

He's behind you. Trust him. Please give

it a shot. I'll let you down. He won't.

So, as Dave has said for decades, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus. It's been my honor. Love you all.

>> [music]

---

## 37. Do the Right Thing Even When It’s Hard | September 19, 2025


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| :--- | :--- |
| **Video ID** | `WhIyLzwoh1M` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhIyLzwoh1M) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:07:19 |

---

[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

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[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform

your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author Dr. John Delo. >> What up? >> And if you want to give us a call at 888255225.

We are taking your calls about life and money. First up, we have Sarah in New

Jersey. Hey Sarah, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. >> Absolutely. How can we help today? Okay.

So, my dad passed away a few months ago, which hallelujah, he's with the Lord.

And my oldest brother has power of attorney. He's had it for years. He's the executive and the trustee.

>> Okay. >> Um he said that there is basically nothing left to inherit. And my other brother and I know differently. So, we

wanted to know is there anything that we can do to try to recruit recoup what dad

wanted us and our children to have?

>> Yeah. I actually just talked to some people uh who have experienced something similar and yes um but it's going to require getting law enforcement involved.

>> Okay. >> Sarah, how do you how do you know that there's something else? Was there another document? Was it just what he told you verbally or how do you know something else is there? >> So, right in 2017, I saw a document, an

investment document, and dad had at least $250,000 in an estate.

>> Okay. Okay. And then between his pension and social security, he would have added minimally another 250,000. We're

thinking more like 3 to 4,000 $100,000

over the last seven years. >> Okay. >> And when he passed away, did he have any

liabilities? Did they Did he have debt?

>> No. >> He was completely debtree. How about the home? >> Um he lived No, that was my brother's home. >> Oh, so he lived with your brother, >> right? Okay. Right. He Oh, I'm sorry.

Yes, he lived with my brother. He and my mom lived with my brother for seven years. >> Okay. >> So, is there a chance that your brother decided that this is what he was owed for having taken care of him or trying to back pay himself or something?

>> Um, no. Cuz my dad paid him rent every month. >> Okay. Have you seen Have you seen the will? >> Uh, yes. I had to go on to the um county

and get actually get my own copy. and we did not know that there was a trust um except that we finally saw in the will that there was a trust and the only money he put in the trust was account with about $30,000 cuz I think most of my dad's other money was basically cash in in his account. So my my bigger

concern here is I is your thinking

>> to Rachel's point.

>> It's like 2017 you saw this. Like who

knows if your dad and your brother >> thought it was a good idea in 2019 to move everything into crypto and he lost it all. Who knows? >> Oh, no. No, he did not.

>> I know. I I know you think he didn't, but I'm telling you right now, when documents come out and families sit down around the table, there's always that's why Dave Ramsey for years have been saying, >> let everybody in your family know on a regular basis what the status of stuff is, >> right? >> Because people think and they assume and you probably, if you're like me, have already spent your what you think your the number is minus your third. In your head, you've already allocated that and now it feels even hard, right?

Oh, you haven't?

>> I do that all the time. because I've dealt with my brother for years.

>> Okay. So, what's the what's your brother saying to you, Sarah, when you and your other brother come to him and say, "Hey, where's dad's inher where's our inheritance from dad?" What does he say?

>> Um, well, he told he told my other brother that um in 20 um 21 that dad

gave him money for his divorce sentiment and to pay his attorney and that and my

brother said, "Where's the rest of the money?" And he goes, "Oh, dad said I could just have the rest." >> Yeah. So, you're going to have to get you're going to have to call a non-emergency line and and let them know and they may direct you back to the courthouse. They may send out a because here's what it is. It's theft.

>> Oh. Oh, yeah. I know. >> I I know. But but think about think about it this way. It's as though he stole a bicycle from you.

>> Right. Right. but he stole money and it's you're gonna have to go sit down and they're going to do some sort of forensic accounting and somebody's gonna have to get on the case and it's going to take weeks and or months or whatever, but they're going have to go through it all and figure out where that money actually is, >> right? Okay.

So, you think we need Oh, go ahead. >> Well, and I think we asked you that Sarah, we did ask you this, but I can't remember what I'm sorry what you said. >> Yeah.

>> Oh, yes. I've seen the will and I >> And what is supposed to be owed to you?

What does it say on the will? Um I am

the will says that I is supposed to be be split between the three of us.

>> Okay. >> The to okay the total amount of what was. >> So yeah. So what you're going to have to do is figure out what the total was at his death everything. And since there is no debt there's nothing else to pay. So it would be that total >> right now. >> And you have not seen that correct?

>> No. Oh no. Cuz he's supposed to of course give us an accounting and he has not done that. Yeah.

>> And usually they have two years to do something like I mean every state's different. The the folks I was talking to there was two years to and it was to settle the account, right? To sell all the assets and then divvy them up and all that kind of stuff, >> right? Um >> Yeah.

But he um now the will is a pourover will. So everything is supposed to go in the trust >> and the trust says that he's supposed to get half of it and then the rest is split between the two of us. >> Do you guys have an attorney that's working with you? Well, that's where we're that's that's where we're going from this point.

Whether we need to get an attorney or do we go right to the police? >> You know what?

Rachel, you're right. Don't don't go don't call local sheriff's office yet.

Go get an attorney and let them know what you're working through.

>> You'll pay them some, you know, retainer up front to be able to go through everything. >> That's the right move. That's the right move. >> Um, >> but yeah. So, I mean, and is this in character for your brother? Like, is this not shock is this shocking to you?

Are you thinking like, "Oh my gosh." Or is it like, "Oh no, I'm not shocked that he's doing this." >> No, it's not shocking to me. I realized many years ago he's a narcissist. And um but unfortunately my other brother was devastated that he would do this to us >> and he said um what kind of a Christian man is he to do this to dad and and you know our families. >> Yeah.

>> So that's you know cuz he professes to be a Christian. >> Well, and we got we have to you have to put that stuff aside and Yeah.

everything. Yeah.

>> And and and my prayer is Sarah that yeah, this all gets worked out and there is close to half a million in there, you know, and your dad's legacy lives on.

But but also the cynical side of us that sit in this chair and we hear every story imaginable to John's point earlier. I mean, leave a little bit of of a realist realistic idea to Sarah

that who know like you may get into this and think, "Oh my gosh, this whole story that I made up in my head of what I thought actually isn't even reality." >> Yeah. He may show you the receipts and say, "Hey, there was no money in that account. I don't know what you saw, but there's nothing there." Or it will say, "This account was liquidated on this date and that money was deposited in this account." Right. So, it's easy.

It's an easy trail to follow.

>> Yeah, for sure. There should be a good paper trail for it. And by the way, maybe telling your brother, "Hey, here's the deal. We know there's money in an account. We're about to hire an attorney. This is going to become a criminal matter. You can do what's right." >> Yeah. It's illegal what he's doing. Exactly. Yeah. >> Or um we're going to go down this road.

>> You're going to end up in jail for stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars. So, >> Right. Yeah. That's what I mean cuz my

brother and I have discussed all these different things. >> I know. Can I tell you this? Stop.

Stop talking about it. >> Go act. Y'all are making yourselves crazy. That's why I called you cuz I thought before we act, I want to call you and see what kind of advice, you know, and that's that's kind of what we've been thinking.

>> Yeah. No more stories. No more like, can you believe I thought he was a Christian? We're not doing any of that.

We're just going to call the attorney before the day is over. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. No.

>> Sarah, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry for the the passing of your dad and that money

gets gets caught up in relationships and families. It does. Absolutely. So Sarah, I'm really um I'm sorry for you guys and I hope you get clarity. I hope you get the answers that you're looking for for sure. So thanks for calling.

[Music]

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[Music]

Up next, we have Matthew in Pennsylvania. Hey, Matthew. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, how's it going?

>> We're doing well. How are you?

>> I am doing so great right now. So great.

>> Fantastic. >> I'm so glad. >> What's up? >> Yeah. Um, first of all, sorry if I sound like very overhyped. I just love you guys so much. I've I've heard about you guys so much. I've seen so many of your videos and I'm a big big fan. So, this is just a true blessing. It really is.

>> Do we love it? We have to hang out with George Campbell backstage and he's such a downer. So, it's good to hear somebody that's like positive, man. It's great.

>> Oh, man. I love George Campbell, too.

But I love Dave and, you know, Jade also. Like, they will tell it straight up. >> That is true. >> Seriously. >> Yeah. >> And Rachel are too nice.

>> So, what's up, dude? >> How can we help?

>> Awesome. So, um this is a twopart question for me. Um, I am 26 years old

and I've had a I've had some thoughts about um, you know, potentially dating again. I did I was in a relationship, but um, I moved off that a year or so ago, but you know, going forward in my next relationship, I just wanted to know like how do I deal with the relationship

and also like financials also, you know,

how do I ask the question, how do you feel about debt and when should I ask that question? First date, dude. First I'm totally kidding. Don't do that.

Don't do that.

>> Kathy's like, "Can I really see your tax returns?" So, not >> Ramy weirdos and then there's those that ask about debt on the first date. Don't be that person.

>> Um, I mean, I don't know. John's the relationship expert, but I would I would think Matthew, you know, as you're dating someone, important conversations hopefully are being had in general, right? learning about the person, understanding them, you're hearing about their family, their likes, their dislikes, um what they think about spirituality, you know, what do they value around money? I I don't know.

I I see it always, you know, people ask this question. For me, and again, maybe it's because I talk about money all the time, so I'm super comfortable with it. But it to me, it's just part of building a relationship.

And as you get to know that person, you're going to know and ask questions and be curious about that part of their life in general as you're dating. And to John's point, it's not usually on the first date, but if you continue to go on dates, you know, I mean, it's like, what are you talking about? You know, we should be talk having good conversation, right, of getting to know the person, and that's just part of a person.

>> I I'll say this too, Matthew. This is something I learned, and I was surprised by it. Um, when I was doing my counseling practicum back in graduate school, I remember being caught off guard by clients would come in and tell me literally everything. They'd tell me

about their sex intimacy lives on session one. They would tell me about traumas. They would tell me about everything in their life. And if I ever asked them, hey, how much money are you making? What's your financial situation?

How much do you owe other people?

Nothing. They wouldn't have that conversation. And so it is a such a our

culture has turned it into such a a binary. You're a winner or you're a loser based on this number. And so it is

for for people like me and Rachel, we just kind of talk about everything all the time. >> But it's a sensitive question.

>> Yes. Okay. So you're saying more though, John, in like what you have, what you don't have, your number, all of that.

>> But I I mean I don't know, but when it comes to values of like, oh, hey, do you because he's asking, you know, about debt or like, you know, different things. It's not necessarily about what they have >> now, if you get into those numbers, which you need to that can probably feel more personal. But from a values conversation, do you think it still is like touchy? >> No.

I I think I think I think to let me put it this way. I would not not date somebody because they owed money. I would not not I wouldn't not marry somebody because they were in debt. Um if they said, "I have student loans.

I'm never paying these back. I think that's stupid. I don't care about any of that kind of stuff." Then we're going to talk about values, right?

there's an entry point into so dude tell me about your job. Are you are you successful? Do you like where you are?

Are what are your dreams for yourself?

that turns into, well, I owe this much money. Like, oh gosh, how quick are you going to pay that stuff off? And it can be a fun, inquisitive, curious conversation. And then if that person says, I'm never doing that. You can be like, oh, I'm one of those Dave Ramsey crazy people. What's that? And you can kind of talk through that. I don't like owe anybody anything. And that's a way to get into a valuesladen conversation.

My fear is always that people who are raised um who are come from Ramsay households or who discover this thing and get so passionate about how the freedom they feel. >> It's the first thing to talk about. >> It's like, "Hey, do you do you know do you are you getting out of debt?

>> Are you going up to the matches your 401k? >> Right. Are you are you funding your 401k fully? And like those questions would be bananas in the first or second.

It'd be like saying like, "Hey, tell me about your ex-boyfriend. What were the your three favorite things and your three things you hated the worst of?" Like you wouldn't do that, right? But there's ways to get to some of those answers as you're learning about each other. And yes, it will naturally come up, but particularly focus on the values part of this conversation.

And then when you start thinking about like I think this person maybe is the one. Then you start getting into the nitty-gritty like hey we're talking about merging households and budgets and I don't want to marry somebody if we're not going to share a checking account.

>> Matthew did you said you want to jump back into the dating pool. Did you find that money was a barrier in last in past

relationships at all? Or you're kind of newer to this and you're thinking, okay, how do I navigate that part of my life with this new knowledge of how to handle money?

Well, I've listened to you guys for some time now, and I've heard a bunch of stories about how, oh, one couple

started dating, but then it didn't go the way they wanted just because of financials, or like how one how a couple

got married, you know, but then like one's a spender, one's a saver, or the other way around, and it just turned into some sort of a nightmare.

>> Well, that's going to be every relationship. Every relationship is going to have people that bring different strengths. I'm a spender and

my wife is a planner and a saver. And if

I owe money, I can't sleep at night. A

mortgage doesn't bother my wife at all.

Not even a little bit. And so when we sit down, I know that I'm a spender.

She's a saver. I know that debt makes me clinically nutty and it makes her it doesn't bother her. And so we're bringing both of our uses to the table to say, as for us, the household that we're building, who are we going to become, >> my wife knows she married somebody that just doesn't want to owe anybody anything. Great.

Okay, cool. I know that I married somebody that is going to say, "Hey, we made a plan. Let's stick to this plan." And I'm glad I have that accountability. So, if you're trying to find someone who saves just like you save, you're you're destined for a pretty boring life, but you want to have somebody that has the same values as you do.

other things happening underneath the surface that they never really address to begin with. So, I do think it's really important um that you are putting weight to this subject in life because it can make or break a relationship 100%. But what John's saying too, make sure not to get legalistic in the sense of because I and I'm like John, I'm a spender. Winston's a saver.

Winston has the Excels and the Excel sheets and the five-year visions and the tech. I mean, this, you know, the Excel sells with the formulas and it's crazy. Like, I'm like, "Okay, that's great. I don't I don't want to look at that.

I get a migraine." Like, "No, thank you.

going as a couple in a family are exactly aligned, but how we're doing it maybe from our habits or the way we look at money may be a little different, but it's not detrimental. It's just who we are. And you don't want to lose that either. You know, you don't want to lose who you are because that's the beautiful part of a marriage is you both bring yourself. >> Um, but again, it's it's the deeper conversation of the values. Matthew, >> here's the way I'll say this. There's a difference between values and beliefs.

>> That's good. People who are married have to share values, but you want your beliefs to be different. I don't want to I don't want to read It helps if they're lined up. That's great and cool. It makes things less um volatile, but the

reason I read new books is try to learn new things so I can I have a belief about something and I get to change my belief. That's why you listen to this podcast. That's why you you you have friends, >> you read parenting books. If you're reading books, I believe this, I don't believe that.

But our value is we're always going to talk to each other before we make a decision. We're a family who believes in this. We're a family who you see what I'm saying? So identify those values.

And when you're dating somebody, you want somebody that's aligned on values. But when it comes to beliefs, I I'm of the opinion that the more fun, the more varied the beliefs, the more fun you can have if you're both anchored into the same values.

>> Okay.

[Music]

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[Music]

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or if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast, we will leave a link below. All right, next we have Isaac in Virginia. Hey, Isaac. Welcome

to the show.

>> Hey, how y'all doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

So, my wife and I inherited my grandparents house on our family farm, and we've looked into renovations and stuff for it, and we're running into issues of it, it's just going to cost so much to renovate and do an addition. We can do a new house cheaper. And so, we're like, okay, we'll fix it up a little bit, rent it out. and we're running into problems with um I guess family wanting us to know don't build a new house and not wanting more houses on the property.

moving forward there? Do we push to do the right financial thing or do we just tear it down and build a new one in the same spot? Anytime of a a family,

anytime a I'm not saying of a couple, I would say a person too, but you and your you and your and your wife, right?

Anytime you feel like you are hemmed in with an eitheror decision, do we either make a a foolish financial decision or or spend more money than we can afford right now to do a thing to keep family happy or we

blow everything up? And I always want folks to back up out of that either or situation and artificially put three, five, 10 other variables on the table

just to go through the exercise of we're not trapped in a this one or that one.

Very few decisions are either or. Okay.

And there's always more context there.

My first question for you is, did your grandmother, did your grandfather, did they let you know, hey, we want you to have this land in this house? Did like, okay, tell me about that conversation. >> Well, in advance, they didn't want us to buy a house what, like 13 years ago when we bought the house we're in because they were sure they were going to die really soon. >> Okay. And so they said, like, we want this to be y'alls, right?

>> Yep. >> Okay. >> And what did you want?

Well, that's where we always wanted to be, but like five years ago, for $300,000, we could of renovations and additions, we could have had a dream house. Now, you're looking at 600 to 700,000, >> right? >> Which we could afford, but it's just to

us, it's just foolish. It's not like our uh our income hasn't grown as much as housing prices. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Right. Right. >> So, how's your family chirping in on this?

Um, so well in order to build a new house still on the property, I would

have to put it on land that I own 50/50 with my father.

>> That's and he's he's had a rough year.

Um, he my mom left after 42 years and so

he's he never liked being pushed on anything before and uh he's really doesn't want to be pushed now. So you, if we're honest, another variable on the table is you don't really have this option yet.

>> I don't have that option. But and then it's like, well, we're going to tear it down maybe and build a new one because I can build a new one cheaper than I can renovated the same square footage and finishes. >> I can build a brand new house and not have any um compromises.

>> You could, but if the co-owner of that land says, "No, you can't." >> Well, no, the house the house as it is, I own outright. Okay. You're saying if you keep it, rent it out and built a new one then where the new one.

>> That was our initial plan. Okay. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> But now we're to the point of just tearing it down and building a new one on the same site. >> So could option three or five or 10 or whatever wherever we are. Could it be to do nothing for one year and just relax for a second? Let your dad heal a little bit. Let the smoke clear a little bit

>> maybe. >> Because it feels like there's this impulse. We got to do something. We got to do something. We got to do something. And you really don't. Yeah, we we don't

have to. We're just kind of drowning where we are. And I live I don't live on the farm as it is now. And so like my life, my kids' life, our overall family life would be better.

>> Isaac, do you want to live in that house in general? Like do you want to move on family property? Do you So you do So the idea of being in that house, if it was a dream house, that's great. You guys are all good with that.

>> Yeah. It doesn't have to be a house. You want to be on the farm and we like the house as it is with the plans we have for the addition and stuff.

>> Sure. >> It's not like a mansion. I mean, >> could you live in it for two years? >> Yeah. Book it. Is it livable? >> Could you just live in it for two years?

>> Um, >> yes, you could. >> You'd have to upgrade the flooring.

They've already like car. We've already started doing some demo. >> I mean, if you did paint and carpet, could you live in it? Like plumbing wise, all of that? Okay. So, what I would probably do, that's where you guys want to be >> about that. We just worry we'd never do anything if we did that. >> Yeah. But that's a that's a that's that's a problem for future you, right?

Like like fix the carpet, make it liveable. You'll exhale and be like, "All right, we're gonna do this for 24 months >> and we're not gonna owe anybody anything. We're gonna sell our house, get out from drowning." >> You'll actually probably make better decisions doing that living in it than saying, "Oh, let's just make the biggest best thing we could ever do renovation wise." You'll probably end up saving money, honestly, once you're in it. And saying, "Okay, what do we want?" But also, also, Isaac, like this is this is always the sticky part when family gets involved with property and all of this, right?

and the land, right? You own the land as well, correct? I >> own the land the house is on. >> And how many acres is the land that you have now that came from your grandparents?

>> I have 10 acres, but it's just it's the

outbuilding. It's just it's just a partial design. >> And no one else who who how big's the farm? Where is everyone else living that's speaking into this decision with you? >> Uh my father lives next uh 60 yards away

from my grandparents house.

>> Okay. Different plot of like property though, right? I mean, he owns that is what you're saying. >> Property. Who's >> else? Who else is on the on the farm?

>> That's just us. It's just us. >> So then who's mad that you would tear it down and build something new?

>> My father. >> Okay. >> All right. Well, there's >> So So I I would move in for a month or I mean for a year, for two years.

>> Cuz here's the problems I'm hearing that you need to solve right away. Right away. And the life you have right now, you're drowning.

>> Yeah. >> You have a life raft right here. It's not a It's not a boat, but it's a life raft. >> It's a free house.

I mean, house. Let's put five grand in it and paint it and get the car the flooring updated and maybe even get the kitchen counters redone and let's exhale for 24 months, a year, one year, two years. And then let's get dad. Dad's in a deep season of deep grieving.

Who is he? What's going on? All that stuff. Having you right there, having the grandkids around, that might give him some extra life.

If it comes down to it in a year or two, >> you might say, "Dad, this is mine. and I'm going to tear this down and build it and we're going to go rent a two-bedroom apartment till that day comes. But my hope would be through relationship, you don't get there.

>> But Rachel's right. If you go run in right now with a dream, without having lived out there, without having just experienced the ups and the downs and the winter and the >> I'm I've I've done all that. I mean, I grew up in my father. >> Okay. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. My whole life.

So, where where are you guys financially, Isaac? How much debt do you and your wife have?

Um, I don't know the total. We have a separate farm business. Um,

but that's business >> consumer debt. Like, do you guys have credit cards, car loans? Like, where are you guys at? >> Oh, no. We have like two payments left on her car. My truck's paid off. We have our mortgage basically, and I think she has a little bit of student loan, but I think it's going to be paid off by the end of the year. >> Okay. There's a lot of I thinks in there, Isaac. So, you got Okay.

financials, but I do know her student loans are all but done and we have two car payments left on her flight.

>> Perfect. How much do you guys have in savings?

>> Um,

less than >> Yeah. Before you go knocking anything down, you need to know the number.

>> Okay. So, I would be looking at savings. Isaac, how much equity do you have in your home? If you sold it right now versus what you owe, how much would you all walk away with?

>> Low side, like 125.

>> 125. Okay. So, I would for you for your

sake, Isaac, you need to get your financial take in order. You need to be able to rattle off these numbers, you and your wife on the same page. Um, it's it's a it's a great if it's a house that you guys can live in, I would sell yours. Go ahead and move in and then from there figure out, do we cash flow reser um renovations andor do we tear it

down and build something with a reasonable mortgage?

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[Music]

Up next, we have Cam in Ohio. Hi, Cam.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how are you guys? >> Hi, we're doing well. How can we help?

>> Hey, so I uh I just feel like I'm always buried in debt, buried in stress, anxiety. Um, I have a pretty good job.

It's a sales job. Um, I netted about 140,000 last year. Uh, my wife does her own thing. Um, and she makes about 25,000 a year. Um, we have, uh, debt

with a main mortgage. We owe about 276,000 there. I have a second mortgage

that I owe about 130,000. And then we

have a truck loan for $18,000 and a car loan for 6,000. Um, all of our payments

combined, uh, monthly are about $4,500 a month. And I just want to know what the best way is to start getting out of debt and be less stressed. I've I've made some mistakes financially in my life that I want to get out of.

>> And I just I don't know what the best way to do it is. I'm I mean, I'm I we have about 11,000 in our savings. I have I dump $600 a month into my Roth IRA to

max that out every year and I also pay

$100 a month for for life insurance for my wife and I. >> And so I just and I don't know what to do. >> I want to tell you this before we turn over to Rachel. She'll walk you through she'll give you 100% if you follow the path. It'll work. Okay. But I want to tell you we take we take calls I've

taken thousands of calls over the years.

There's a there's a particular um tone

that somebody when they call in that you can hear it in their voice. They're done. >> They're done with the stress. They're done with anxiousness. And I can hear that in you. And it it it fills me up with joy because I know I can give you a path out of this thing. Okay.

>> You just have to be willing to surrender and say, "What I've been doing is not working. I make too much money." >> Yes. >> To um be this sick into my stomach all

the time. Are you in? >> Yeah. Yeah, I am in. >> That's awesome, man. Awesome. >> That's great. Um, Kim, what is the second mortgage for? Is that on your primary home, like a HELOC, or do you guys have a second property?

>> Yes. So, it's on our primary home. So, we bought our home uh 5 years ago with a good interest rate. We have a 2.8% interest rate on that, but then it had an unfinished basement and needed a roof. So, I got a second mortgage to finish the basement and put a roof on it. >> Okay. Um, and when did you guys do that?

How long ago? >> Uh, a a year ago.

>> Okay. Okay. So, I would lump that

mortgage, both mortgages into baby step six. So, our seven baby steps is really walking through how to get out of debt, get to a place where you're saving for retirement and paying off the mortgage.

So, if the basically a heliloc, right, that you took out, you you you borrowed money on your house, if it's more than 50% of your income, we lump that into a second mortgage. So, what I'm going to be thinking through with you right now is the the the car payments is really

what you have. I mean, it's about $24,000 in vehicle debt that you all

have now. You have $11,000 in savings, which is great. You're funding $600 in retirement. You're doing that.

You know, you named off a couple of things which are all all good things. I

would just reorder how you're doing them because you're trying to do 18 different things at once and you're not getting traction. Is that right? Is that how you feel? >> Yes. >> Yes. Okay. So, what I would do if I were you, I would pause all retirement including the Roth because you're putting $600 a month is what you said, right? To max it out, which is great, but that's nice if you have 600 to give when you don't have all these payments, right? So, so I would pause all retirements of what you guys are doing.

And do you all have kids?

One. Yes, we have one. >> You have one. Okay. And is your wife is she home with >> Yeah. Y >> with the kid. Okay. >> Well, she does she she works out of the house doing nails. Uh but she likes to be a stay at home mom. >> Yeah. Good for her. Well, she's bringing in Yeah. some great money doing that.

That's awesome. >> Um about two grand a month. I mean, yeah, that's a great side hustle. So, if I woke up in your shoes, I would pause that retirement. Uh I would throw 10,000

of the 11,000, which is going to make you really nervous, um at the car. So, I'd pay off your truck today. Um, and then you would have 14,000 left on your truck. Now, how much is the payment for the $6,000 car?

>> 250. >> 250. Okay. So, that frees up 250. So, even in this call, we just freed up close to $900 a month that you can now throw extra at the truck, which you'll

have again $13,000 left. So, I would work to pay this off completely. And you

guys make great money. I mean, you're making 165. So, I mean, I I would do

everything to get this paid off, gosh, uh, to I mean, maybe in the next 6 months or something, you know, to to have an aggressive goal because the faster you guys can do this and get some traction under you, the faster you're going to see some wins because what's great is you freed up that 250 payment once the truck's paid off. How much is that payment a month?

>> 330. >> 330. Okay. So then you get to that point

and what you're able to do then is go

back or or have some savings. Go back and rebuild your savings after the truck after the cars are all paid off to about a threemonth ex I I would probably do three month emergency 3 to four month for you guys. Um and then you can press play back on retirement and then the big >> tackle then is going to be these mortgages. And I would keep them separate for now because I'm assuming your for your first mortgage is going to have a better interest rates.

We're not too concerned about interest rates, but >> on something like this, um, I probably wouldn't consolidate at this point.

paid off, and then the and then the 270.

So, you kind of emotionally feel like you have $400 $400,000

of a house to pay off in baby step six is what that's going to amount to.

So, with my with my savings that $11,000, I had like 20 uh the other day

that I was listening to you guys' show.

I took nine of it and I dumped it on our car uh to pay it off a little bit quicker. But I also about six months ago picked up my real estate license and I have a couple deals right now that um if I close on them, I'll be able to wipe my vehicle debt out. >> Oh my gosh. Amazing. >> With that, >> would you still deplete that or get it

done? Yes. And here's two things I want you to feel. Okay? Number one, project

out nine months >> to where you don't owe anybody anything.

>> Okay? >> Yeah. >> To get there in that time frame, it's going to be miserable. No going out to eat. >> Y'all y'all eating whatever you got left in the fridge, somebody going to to the grocery store and getting bare minimum at 7:30 at night after a long day of work. Like, that's what you're signing up for. That's going to be miserable.

and you continuing on this path for the

next nine months is going to be miserable. So what you're choosing is you're choosing your hard. It's people like to think like I don't want to do this cuz that's too hard. I'm just going to keep living my life which is miserable. And so I'm going to choose my hard that's going to get me to where I want to go. >> That's number one. Number two, I want

that anxiousness of we only have $1,000.

All we have is enough money in case one or two of our tires blows out with the cost of tires these days. It is designed to be just take the edge off like just the sharpest dull that tip of that of that pointy knife of fear just a little bit and to fuel you because I promise you if you only have a thousand bucks, you're going to hustle on those two on those two um real estate deals >> because you want that.

>> The moment you get those things paid off, you're going to start building back your emergency fund and then you're going to be your own credit card.

And that's what three months in an account. If you got 20, 30 grand and you've you've done two deals and you're able to knock that out with that money.

>> I'm telling you, man, you will sleep.

You will laugh different in your house. Your marriage will be different. I mean, everything changes.

>> Yeah. And then you'll knock for it, >> dude. Then knock out 10 real estate deals plus your income and you're out of your house in the next 36 months, too.

You like it? It becomes this >> snowball effect. >> Powerful small wins. >> Cam, do you guys do a detailed budget every month? You and your wife sit down and say, "Here's exactly where the income's going to go." >> We haven't. And that's why I've made a mistake is we started making really good money and I always told myself I wouldn't grow into it and then guess what? I same thing. All of us are there.

>> Lifestyle creep. No, I know. So, seriously, Cam, I mean, I think it'd be a really great exercise because you I know how you feel. Like John said, I can I can hear it in your voice.

You feel out of control. You're like, "Oh my gosh, like there's like our money's going everywhere. I feel like there's no tra you know, all of it." But I'm telling you, if you do a plan, if you guys sit down and do a monthly budget, we're going to give you every dollar for free for the next year. Kelly will pick up when we're done with this call.

Um, and what this is, it's not only a budgeting app, but it's going to be able to ask you about a 15minute questionnaire at the beginning when you sign into the app. And what it's going to do is it's going to give you all these recommendations, and it's going to walk you through this whole process of what we've done on the phone, but it's going to extend, which is wonderful. So, again, you just need a plan. You guys need to sit down.

You need to live on nothing.

This is going to be a challenge for you, but it's going to be good for you and your wife to do. Throw everything you guys have at these cars. Get them paid off. Throw everything at an emergency fund. Get it built up. And I'm telling you, Cam, you're going to feel different. You're going to feel different even just that. So, hold on the line and Kelly's going to pick up.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio and we have some breaking news. We are so excited about this. There is a now a co-branded Ramsay and Fairwinds debit card that is now available on it. It's

got dead as normal be weird. So all of

your purchases that you make, >> they're putting the number up there for Is it on the front? Oh, it's on. And it's I think it's I don't think it's like a I don't know. I don't think it's real.

>> Okay. >> This isn't mine. >> Yes, it is. >> No, it's not.

Mine's coming. Mine's in the mail. I got the email. Mine's coming I think in the next like three business days.

Can't wait. Uh, but the Fair Winds. Yep. The Where's the Where's our Oh, there we are.

I was trying to get the camera for YouTube so you can see it. It's beautiful. So great. But Fairwinds is incredible, you guys.

It's a credit union that's partnered with Ramsay.

You want your financial um partner, your bank to be for you in this process of getting out of debt and saving, and Fair Winds Credit Union does that. So, they are absolutely incredible. We are so excited to partner with them and the new debit card which will be Yeah.

>> Can I tell you what I love about the debit card? Dave and I were talking about this. >> I love this is a way to literally change

the way servers and restaurant folks

think of Ramsey folks and people are getting out of debt. I want it to be when they see that card, they know they're going to get so generously tipped. >> Like get a good tip. Yes.

>> Yeah. They're going to like, oh, these are these are amazing people.

people or whoever's taken like that.

That's the message that permeates the folks who are running around with this card. I love it. >> They want people with this card because they know they're good people. That's awesome. So great. >> Generous people. Yeah. >> So you can go to fairwinds.org/ramsey org/ramsey to sign up for the smart bundle and that

includes the Ramsay debit card. So, we're so excited about that. All right, let's go to Susan in Missouri. She is up

next. Hey, Susan. Welcome to the show.

>> How are you all doing today? >> Hi, we're doing great. How are you?

>> Oh, trudging through life right now.

>> Okay. What's going on? >> Um couple weeks ago, my husband um asked

me for a divorce.

>> Oh gosh. He's pretty serious about it.

Um, of course I don't want it, but that's just how life is. And right now,

we uh we don't have any debt. We all record our cards are paid off. Um, all of our, you know, collections are paid off. The only debt we have is our house.

Um, property is worth about $400,000,

give or take a little bit, and we only have $159,000 left on it. >> Okay. Um, we have about 84,000 in

savings. Um, and he has a traditional

pension and I have a a regular 401 401k.

>> Yep. >> Um, he's already said that he's not going to touch my 401k as long as I don't make a claim against his pension.

>> Whoa. >> Um, >> what?

>> Yeah. >> How much is in your 401k?

>> About right now about 375,000.

>> Okay. I put in n I put in 19% and my

company matches 12.

>> Okay, >> here's where I said, whoa. He walked in >> unbeknownst to you and just said, I want a divorce. I'm tired of being married to you. And then started flexing on you. If you don't do this, I won't do that.

Yeah, it it there had been a couple signs coming up and I I'd saw them and then we had a argument one night and it

wasn't anything like serious and uh he

said I'm done and he left three weeks ago, >> man. >> Well, before you start making handshake deals with him, I would sit down with your attorney to make sure this is all right and fair. Because if you've been paying all the bills for 20 or 30 years

and he was able to and his pension's worth $7 million or you know what I mean? Like if it like it may not be apples to apples I before you started shaking hands and saying this is this is cool. I won't do this but you do that.

>> Sit down with an attorney.

>> That's that's one thing but right now I'm more concerned about you know if you do get to that point I want to I want to save the house. I want to stay in the house. >> Okay. >> And >> what has he said about that >> with you guys? Have you talked about that at all?

>> No, he's not returning any phone calls or speaking at this point. So, I can't get to that point asking. >> Yeah, but your goal is wanting to keep the house, >> right? And I've done some of the simple math as far as what you know, the cash we have in savings, selling off. We've

got some classic vehicles, selling them off, and I've come to the realization

that I would probably need about $50,000

to pay them off to to buy the whole property outright. but and still retain the loan that's the u $159,000 loan. The

question is um you know I do have that 375 in my 401k. Would that be it? I mean

that's the only place I could think to go to get that to pay him off because taking out you know like a second mortgage wouldn't make sense because the

first mortgage plus a second would be well above you know what I could pay every month for for mortgage payment.

So, you're saying you wouldn't be able to afford the home without taking money out of your 401k?

>> Correct. The the the mortgage right now is about$,650 a month. And, you know, I always try to stay at the the rule of, you know, one-third of your income for your your your housing. Um, >> yeah, but but taking borrowing from your 401k in this situation, because all this

is hypothetical right now, he may just sign the house over to you and be gone.

But if you had to write him a check for 50 grand, you taking that from your what

I would I'm gonna tell you is not a humongous it's not bad, but it's not a humongous 401k. You're going to be taking that out at 30 or 40% interest.

It's like going to a bank and asking for a 40% loan. You can do that.

>> Yeah. How old are you, Susan?

>> Uh 46. >> Okay. Yeah. No, I I would not touch the 401k, Susan. Um, I would figure out a

way within the equity and the payment plan back to him, um, if he's willing to negotiate. And this will be probably your attorneys, I'm assuming, you know, doing a lot of this kind of >> mediation. Yeah. Um, to figure out how

you can keep the house and have a plan that's reasonable for your income. Um,

but yeah, it would be it would not I could I I would not feel good to say take money out of your 401k and be hit with that amount of fees and taxes and

and all of it because it's before 59 and a half. Um, >> right. >> And I will feel good about saying just don't. >> Yeah. Don't do that. >> Yeah. >> I would rather see you either if he walked out say, "Okay, then I'm keeping the house." And if he says absolutely not, I want this and this and this. At at the very at the very least, we're going to put this on a payment plan.

Cool. Then I'll pay $400 a month for the next however many years, and he probably won't even live that long. But $150,000 in cash. You just walked out of my life.

Um >> Yeah. Yeah. He He absolutely wants his share of the house. He's already He's already >> Well, he's going to want a whole bunch of stuff, but he just left his wife.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And so here's the thing. When somebody files for divorce, the day they file for divorce, it becomes a business transaction, >> right? >> That's it. And most people want to preserve the relationship. Well, there's this and I still want to be It is a business transaction.

>> And it's heartbreaking. And you have to be honest, by the way. You have to be really honest about I know that this has blown your life to smitherreens, but if you can't afford the house payment plus the taxes plus the taxes are going to keep going up in your local area. If you can't afford the house, you can't afford the house. And that's another layer of heartbreak.

>> The six the 1650 well I mean it's going to go up to 7750 u because we just have an increase in our insurance. Um but that is a doable

number for me as far as yeah being able to pay. Well, that's going to be the hope is that you can figure out a way to get to be able to pay him what he needs and then figure out how to stay in the house and maybe do a lower payment plan and over and be able to pay him off fast.

You know, we want to we want you out of that. I don't want you I don't want you in that forever. >> I know. >> Um >> I'm being ridiculous. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, but the idea is like what can you do to be able to stay in?

And that's what I would fight for, but I would not borrow from the 401k.

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Up next, we have Monica calling in from

Georgia. Hi, Monica. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thanks for having me. Yes, absolutely. How can we help? Today, >> I um am set to get a large inheritance

from a family trust and I was advised to

keep it separate from um my husband and

keep it in a separate account and not

spend it on anything that was um not

like in my name. >> Co-mingling it with your husband. Are you guys about to be divorced?

>> No. Okay. >> Is he cheating on you?

>> No.

Are you happily married? >> Who gave you this advice? I'm fascinated to know. >> Um, an attorney.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and and to my friends that are attorneys, the people who come into their offices are dividing up assets or they're solving these ugly problems. And so I I understand that that comes from when all you see is problems that it's easy to say like, "Hey, here's a potential problem.

I get that. Um >> but yeah, our our philosophy is yeah, is that you guys are one, you know, in every aspect. So he gets an inheritance, you get inheritance, your that means your your household >> gets this money, not just you as an individual. Um again, unless there is something happening, you know, >> abuse, addiction, whatever it is, then there is a reason.

>> Um anywhere from like 1 to three million. >> Okay. Yeah. Um, >> and the only the only debt that we have

combined is a mortgage on our home, but I'm not on the loan. So, I it was advised for me not to pay off basically his loan.

>> Again, from an attorney. Yes. Okay. So, there's so there's two schools of thinking, Monica, that happen in the financial space when it comes to marriages. Um, there's one extreme side,

which sounds like what the attorney exactly would say, right? that when you get married, you keep your assets.

Anything you build from the marriage on is yours. It's all his. Your paycheck is yours. His paycheck is his. His debt is his. Your debt is yours. Um you basically live like two you're basically um >> college roommates. >> Yeah. Your roommates are um like a business partner, right? Um that we we

are separate in this part of our life.

So that's one school of thinking.

Another school of thinking where we tend to lean or where you know I do I know John does is that your marriage is bigger than a financial transaction.

Your marriage is saying that you and I are one in every aspect of our lives and we are doing this life together. That's why we chose to get married to share a life which means we share parenting. We share household chores. We share our money.

We share our expectations about sex.

um and I say that with an asterct which I said at the beginning of this call you know if there is something a big issue in the marriage that you have to protect herself then that's one thing right again addiction abuse like whatever that may be but overall Monica we just see a

quality of marriage um people that have a very deep quality connection there is

something about that transparency that

vulnerability to say I'm giving this part of my life to you and you're giving that part of your life to me and we're doing this together so I guess at the end of the day Monica you you guys get to choose what kind of marriage you want but um but we see the benefit from not

only a financial aspect, getting ahead quicker financially, you get ahead faster when you work together, but also from a relational standpoint. >> There's some there's data on marriages about people who share their finances

and they have better outcomes on a number of different metrics.

>> Yeah. I mean, we we share everything for

the most part and I've never made a payment on our mortgage. So, I know do

you all have kids together?

Yes, we have kids and we are happily married. >> How long have y'all been married?

>> Uh, a decade, 10 years.

>> So, the court would say you you have participated in this house.

>> Yeah. No, I understand what you're getting at. My my family has like a

pretty large trust, so this would just be like one dispersement. So they were

under they were basically advising me with a family attorney to keep it separate or to have him basically sign off on some things that like it's not

his even if I pay for things that are

ours. And so what you're choosing to do if you make that call is now we I'm un I'm uncoupling our unity

here and this is going to be mine

and then we're going to go about having our regular life.

>> Yeah. And I don't even think he cares either way. That's the funny thing. I >> I promise you this will become a deal.

>> Yeah. >> I promise you because it because it's >> money flows. The value at which you live your life is how money flows. So what you're you're setting up a value system within your marriage. Monica, >> here's what it says. It says there came a dollar number. There came a dollar amount when I didn't trust you anymore.

And here was the number11 to3 million.

That was the line. And everybody always wonders like how hot would the person have to be or how bad would have he found out. It's one$1 to3 million was when you said okay you can't participate in this. I'm going to create a separate thing. And I know you're getting wisdom from other people, right? But that became the number that the unity in your marriage was worth.

>> Yeah. Well, that's not the case.

>> Exact. Exactly. So, I want to I want to provide an alternative voice than the one you're getting, which is basically I want a I want a basically a prenup now

in the middle of my marriage.

I want to add an addendum to our marriage contract that says anything I get now over here from this account, whether it's a job, whether it's a trust, whether it's I wrote a book and it becomes what that one's that stuff's going to be mine. You can't touch that.

And then we'll go back to to regularly scheduled programming. I'm telling you right now, it'll it'll alter your marriage. >> Yeah. >> And the house that y'all have that's in his name, did he own that house before y'all got married?

>> No. >> He just bought it that way. Have y'all talked about that before?

Um, no. The house is titled in both of our names. I just I'm not on the loan.

>> Oh, that I mean that doesn't matter.

>> Yeah. No, I I could pay off I could pay off the the house, >> but it's under his name is what they're saying. Well, but the title's not >> Yeah, but it's y'all's house. >> Yeah, but you're both on it.

>> Yeah. No. >> Yeah, that's y'all's house. And you you may want to say, "Hey, we just got $3 million.

>> Woohoo. >> Let's go. Let's go have a Let's go have a retreat." That's what's so hard, Monica, I think, is is um where I'm having a little bit of difficulty is instead of seeing this gift that you've got from your parents who did incredibly well and they're passing on their legacy. >> Um you know that you're not looking at your husband and you guys aren't kind of celebrating inside like, "Holy crap, we got $3 million.

No, you're about to do a prenup." I mean, you're not though. You're not saying, "Gosh, we get to be out of debt.

We get to do all this together. We get to This is our life. Our kids I mean, we get to create all this. It's not that. It's, hey, make sure you, Monica, make sure you sign this paper that he can't freaking touch it. >> Can't touch it. It's mine. >> And anything I buy with this, Monica, you just said you he can't participate in. Like, do does that not sound like really sad to you in a marriage?

>> Yeah. >> It sounds like very very cold. But that doesn't really shock me. >> Yeah. It doesn't shock you that that's the advice you're getting. No, it's just I think that um like a worst case scenario planning is kind of like the

background I come from >> where um my husband's side of the family

is very much like together. And

>> what do you want, Monica? What kind of marriage do you want?

>> No, I I want I want the one-minded one track. I just, you know, I I figured I'd talk to somebody who doesn't have any skin in the game. >> Totally. >> You're talking to two people. This is what we would do in our house.

>> And let me tell you, Dave and Sharon Ramsey, we have estate meetings plans every single year. And not once have my

parents nor have I had any feeling towards towards any of the spouses that this over here. The only time I see it that I can actually very much understand, it's not in our case, but some family businesses there's voting stock and that the voting stock stays with the family member, the blood if if there is a separation. That I understand cuz you don't want to coingle. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. within something like that.

That makes sense. And I think there's some complicated estate planning out there that >> But um but man, that kind of I don't know why that bo that really hurts me where I'm like because it's not that we're winning, it's that I'm winning over here. Put a number on our community. >> Yeah.

And so your family may not like it, Monica, but you and your husband get to choose what kind of marriage you want. And if they don't agree with that, that's up to them. That's their issue, not yours.

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>> Today's question comes from Bethany in Connecticut. Bethany writes, "I'm 46 years old with no kids and no debt. I'm an aggressive saver in CDs and money

market funds. I have $250,000 save for

retirement and a 3 to sixmonth emergency fund. I only spend money on the necessities and get by as cheaply as possible. Everyone says I'm doing a good job of saving money, but mental healthwise I have a hard time getting into the market due to anxiety and OCD.

How does someone manage mental health while also managing their market? Are there helpful strategies such as only looking at one portfolio once a quarter or once a year? Is there a way I can do it myself? I don't want to be completely hands-on, but I don't want to give up all control either.

>> It's a great question. I think a lot of people have some fear around putting money in the markets and usually that fear comes from not knowing enough

because I guarantee you Bethany I think you're smart and I think if you sat down with a financial planner and actually looked at some of the investments that

you could do whether it's mutual funds or index funds and you you're able to see the pattern of the market you're able to see a long-term track record with some of these funds. I think it will give you more peace to know, okay, my money could be making a lot more,

double what it's making now in CDs. Um, but there is a level of risk to it, sure, but also you're you're 46 years old and you probably aren't going to touch any of this until, you know, the next 15 years. >> That was the big switch for me, which was my Smart Vest Pro. I'm I'm fortunate. I will say that. I'm very lucky that was also a college roommate of mine. And so when we were going back and forth with this years ago, um he

finally said, "Hey, if you're thinking you're going to take this money out at some point in the next few years or if it starts going down, you're going to pull all this out and pay the penalties. I'm not your guy." Um and that for me

was, oh, if I if I invest money in

retirement, I'm this thing's on a 40 or 50 year ride. Me checking this every month, me honestly checking it every year, Yeah.

is a choice to be falsely optimistic or

falsely pessimistic because I'm 49 years away, 25 years away, however. So, it for me, I'm an anxious person and I'm also an anxious investor. I like the idea of like investing in real estate so I can go see it, right? I can go touch it.

I like the idea of having extra cash in the bank, right? >> Um, but when it comes to investing, I had to make the decision, this is going to be a ride I'm going to get on until I retire. >> Yes. And when I made that decision, I honestly don't look at it very much at the details.

What's what's the market because it doesn't matter. >> It doesn't matter to me right now because I'm playing a 20 or 30 year game. >> And so my Smart Investor Pro to be honest with you, >> we work together on goals. We we check in, but he'll text me and say, "Hey, you're about to get an email from our company.

Don't open it." Because he's known me forever. He's like, "You're going to freak out. You're going to act stupid or whatever." Or, "Hey, the market's up 21%. Just remember that's like it's >> it's a But he g he's a psychologist more than he's a money guy for me.

>> 100%. >> And so Bethany, that's how I handle it.

I just don't don't check I know people who check it up and down every day. I just know when I made that choice. I'm on a ride that's going to be however many year a multi-deade ride. I I'm not going to lose a ton of sleep over it in the short term.

>> 100%. Yeah. And we look at ours just once a year and kind of re-evaluate where is everything, how we feeling, you know, but it's um but that's it.

>> And Rachel uh I don't think this is an anti-Ramsey sentiment. Um I think when

you pay your house off like once you've got when you're on the other side of baby step six my wife and I like I was

like hey I feel more comfortable with more than six months cash. She's like, "Okay, but it's a we are consciously choosing together to not make to make less on that spread, right? It could be making this in the market. It's only making this in a high to have some cash available." Yeah, >> that's a that's some margin that I've bought myself that that I pay 2 or 3% a year, >> a tax on, and I call it my sleep tax.

But like I think if you get there, if you decide like, hey, I'm putting money, I'm putting 15% away for retirement. I'm doing those things. I want a little bit more money. I don't owe anybody anything. I'm fine with that.

>> Totally. >> I'm fine with that. >> Yeah. Absolutely. That's good. All right, let's go to Sarah who's in Texas.

Hey Sarah, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> I had a quick question.

Me and my fiance, we're in a bind. So,

we both have car payments and we're both upside down. So, combined, our car payments are about $1,800 a month.

>> Yeah, I know. It's stupid. I know. And >> are you driving Lamborghinis? What are you drive? I'm I'm I'm curious. No, just basic, you know, a GMC Acadia and an

F-150. And the F-150 is a 2015 and the

Acadia is a 2021. Terrible interest rates. >> Did you get these at like a sub I mean, did you I mean, did you buy them off a lot? It's like a handshake deal off a lot somewhere behind the lot.

>> No car dealership. It was just the credit was so bad. So, he had his truck before I got my car. My other car that was paid off, I loved it.

It was just down in the dirt and the engine was smoking when I pulled into the dealership. >> Okay, Sarah, what I want you to separate these out. Tell me your car.

>> Is my Oh, I owe 32 on it still.

>> Okay. >> Um, my payment is 1,100 because we got

behind, so we had to do this promise to pay thing. It was 815, but now it's bumped up to,00.

>> Okay. the 2015 F-150, he still owes

20,000 on it and his payment is right at

700. >> How much do you make a year?

>> So, combined we don't

me myself right around 55.

>> Okay. How about him?

>> Uh he's about 52 53.

>> Okay. What could you sell your car for

today? What does Bel Kelly Blue Book say? >> Uh I think it's like 17. >> Have you looked?

>> I have. >> Okay. An individual, not dealer.

>> So, not as an individual. I haven't.

>> Okay. So, I would do that. So, I would give it a couple thousand more because you can usually get more from an individual. A dealer is going to buy it as close to wholesale as possible. Um, so what did you what was the first what the number you said for the dealership?

>> Uh, 17. >> Okay. Let's just bump it up to 20 just for fun. Okay. Um, how much could he sell his for?

I think his is valued at like eight >> from a dealer. >> From an F-150. Did he wreck it?

>> No, he did not wreck it. It's just >> F150s are made of gold. >> So, both of our cars have about a 100,000 miles. His is about Still though. >> No, that's not I I I almost guarantee you a 2015 F1.

>> I'm going to Yeah. 12 to 15,000 or you think even more? >> I They're expensive.

>> I buy I like trucks and they're so like they're It's like cartoon money.

>> No. No, dude.

>> I thought that's what it said. So, it's also a two wheel drive.

>> I mean, there's going to be a bunch of nuances here and there, knick-knacks, and we have to go back and forth if it's extended cab or like a single like all that stuff. >> I could almost guarantee you I could be wrong that it's worth more than eight grand unless it's been wrecked. It was it was underwater. >> I will look into that.

>> And private party, too. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Even if there was somebody that owns a lawn crew that will roll up and give you 10 grand cash for it. like it's I I haven't seen a truck worth $8,000 in a long long long time.

>> Okay. >> So, yeah, we'll be a little bit more. And you're in Texas, you know, they like they like >> they give you a truck with your birth certificate. Yeah.

>> I haven't dug too much into >> Okay. So, Sarah golly. Okay. So,

um man. Okay. So, for you and I'm going to talk I'm going to I'm going to separate the two because you guys aren't married yet. Once you're married, we combine it all together and I'm right off into the winds.

But for you specifically, yes, getting rid of this car is huge because it's more than half of your annual take-home pay. You know what I mean? Or half of what you make. Um, and so you are we have way way too much car, which I know this that's why you're calling because you're you're feeling it.

Um, >> yeah. Well, we both are. So, all of our finances are combined. We have four kids together.

>> Okay.

>> Hang on the line. We're going to hold you over cuz I want to unpack this one.

>> Yeah. and we'll we'll walk through some of this math with >> we're going to go to a break, but we'll be right back.

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All right, welcome back. We have Sarah on the line from the last segment. She was calling in because their car payments and car loans, they are feeling it. So, she owes 32,000 on hers with

$1,100 going out um every month in a

payment and her husband owes 20,000 or

I'm sorry, her fiance owes 20,000 on his. Um, he makes 52, she makes 55. And

just kind of trying to figure out the math here to get them out of these payments. Does that sound right, Sarah? So far, >> yes. >> Okay. Um, and are both of your credits

shot because you mentioned that.

>> Y Okay, >> they are. Yeah. So, we have completely stopped paying on the credit cards because even the minimums is like, okay, well, we're not going to pay our rent. So, we rent right now for 2,000, then daycare 700. It's everywhere.

>> Okay. Um,

your rent is 2,000. How much do you guys I mean, you're running your household as if you're married. So, I'm going to ask this. How much do you How much hits They >> pretty much do. >> How much How much hits your checking account every month after taxes, after

insurance, everything?

>> I would say right about 8,000.

>> 8,000 for both of you?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. Well, that's Yeah. Then the um the $2,000 rent that's in line with

it for being about a fourth of your take-home pay because that's what we're wanting um shooting for. So that's not completely out of control, but then again, you add in these car payments and everything else on top of it, it's a lot. So um have you guys have you guys

gone down to maybe a local credit union or a local bank and talk through a loan

process? Because the ideal situation, again, your credit's shot, so it may not work. Um, >> they will not refinance. >> But no, no, not a refinance.

Just to get a get a personal loan. And I would get a $25,000 loan for you and >> pay off the difference. >> Pay off the difference of 20. Go get a $5,000 crappy car for just the time being.

>> Um, and your husband, you know, do the same.

to get the difference if he can sell it.

>> It's not a refi. It's just we're paying this thing off. We're done with >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a But I would rather have a $20,000 loan than a $32,000,

right? So, we're just kind of moving it but lowering it at the same time, which means you're getting rid of these cars and driving crappy cars. Do you guys have any You don't have anything in savings?

>> No, nothing. So, we just started y'all's financial piece last week through our church. >> Oh, good. >> Okay. >> So, all the steps are hitting us and we're like, "Oo, >> yeah. Well, >> yeah. >> The thing I think you have to metabolize here is this is you've got these car payments. Y'all have done things that aren't wise with money. We all have.

>> Y'all have to metabolize to truly get out of this mess. It's going to be 36 months of not a lot of fun. >> Yeah. >> And if you're willing to do that, you can get out of this.

And that might mean you're taking a second job. He's taking a second job. And you're like, I don't have time to that. And I would tell you, you don't have time not to cuz I can hear you drowning.

And you're going to find yourself, this car is going to fail you before you pay it off. And you have to roll that >> guy has been in the shop.

Already. >> You have to roll the negative equity and you're going to end up owing $50,000 on a on a 79 used like whatever Volvo.

Right. So it's like at some point you and him have to say, "We're drawing a line here. We're not going to go out to eat. We're going to take second jobs.

We're going to maybe move apartments.

That's $1,500 instead of 2,000. We're going to do that for three years or two years so we can get out of this once and for all." And if you don't have that level of burn it to the ground and and

grow something beautiful out of the ashes, if you don't have that, you're just going to keep playing the shell game. >> Yep, that's right. Yeah, there has to be an extreme change. I mean, it's almost a 180 at the way you guys have been thinking about money, doing money.

I mean, all of it. It's It's got to be a complete different shift. And you guys are in uh Financial Beast University, which I'm so thankful for. But we're also, if you hold in the line, Kelly's going to pick up and we're going to give you our allnew Every Dollar.

we're excited about this because within the app, you're not only able to budget

and create a monthly budget, which will be so great for you, Sarah, and um to sit down for you guys to look and be like, "Hey, we we are literally this is our plan for what we're spending on groceries, lights, rent, gas for the

car, and that's it. Daycare, and insurance, and like we're paying for nothing else. We're not Amazoning. We're not going to Target.

We're not going on vacation. We're not >> decorating anything. Oh, that looks nice. Doesn't matter.

>> We're not doing anything." But we're literally putting every single penny we can find towards this debt. And when you start to have that motivation, it's incredible.

And people are finding thousands of dollars of margin in just 15 minutes.

So, for all of you listening, we have a premiere coming about the allnew Every Dollar on September 25th where you get

to see real success stories and how you can be the next one and how you can plug into this and start your money journey.

So, if you want to turn on your YouTube notifications to get notified when the premiere drops, make sure to do that.

And again, that is going to be September 25th is where the allnew Every Dollar premiere uh is here for you guys and we're really really excited about it. So Sarah again, Kelly's going to pick up and we will hook you up for a year's worth of um that every dollar subscription to get you guys in and moving. So we are cheering y'all on. All right, next we have Crystal in Oregon.

Hi Crystal, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for having me. I'm honored. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um I am a single mother of one. Um and I

own a home. I have an LLC in cleaning

houses and then I coach high school basketball on the side, but I have a credit card that's just eating me alive.

>> Okay. Wow. Good for you, Crystal.

>> Yeah, good for you. That's awesome. >> Way to take on the world. >> I was a basketball coach for a few years. It's one of my favorite jobs I've ever ever had. It's way more fun than being a YouTuber. It was awesome.

>> Yeah, it's very rewarding.

>> Okay, so tell me about this credit card.

What's going on? >> Um, I think I had a few uh years that were really difficult. So, I feel like a lot of it is food to feed my daughter and I and things like that. Um, I say I haven't used it in about a year, >> but it doesn't go down.

>> Okay. How much do you owe on it?

>> I owe about a little over 9,000.

>> 9,000. Okay. How much do you make a year? >> Um, I make about 58.

>> 58. Okay. Good for you. That's great.

And what's the what's the payment each month? >> Uh, the payment right now is like 330.

>> Okay, perfect. But then the interest on it is like I think it's like $200. It's like I'm only paying off $100 of it here and there. >> Yeah. Extra. Okay. Um after you pay all

of your bills, Crystal, like from um your you said you have a house, so your mortgage, lights, everything, do you have any margin left over?

>> Um I have a after like all the bills

with my house and everything, I have $1,000 left for food and gas.

>> For food and gas. Okay, perfect. that.

>> Okay. Um, so yeah, I mean a couple of

things, Crystal. I mean, you can, you know, that $1,000. I mean, there's um

for food. I mean, food's expensive. It's hard, but >> if I'm just thinking through if you can find $1,000 a month, you can get this paid off in nine months, right? Meaning, >> um I don't know if there's extra work you pick up a little bit on the side.

um cutting expenses where you where you're like, "Listen, we're having peanut butter and jelly and spaghetti every day." Like that's what we're doing for the next 5 months. Like we're cutting the grocery budget. Like we're cutting where we can. We're adding extra because I'm honestly sitting on this side >> um >> of the phone call.

I was expecting I was holding my breath when you said I was thinking 22 to 30,000 on the credit card. That's what I was thinking. So when you said nine, I was like, "Okay, Crystal can do this. Crystal can do this." It may.

And here's the thing. Here's what I hate about this. It may be that you have to go and say, "I can't do my side hustle of coaching this year because it only pays 2500 bucks for the season.

make 6,000 bucks." >> Yeah. The basketball the basketball paid. My daughter goes to a private Christian school, so I took on the basketball gig to help pay for my portion of sending her to that school.

>> Okay. There there you go. So, but here's the thing. is going to be every decision you make is going to be a trade-off. >> Yep. >> And do I want to keep this thing around for two years and pay $400 a month on it? Um or do I want to just grit my

teeth, make some really deep cuts, and be done with this thing in seven months and then get on with my life?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I think my biggest question was is that I do have a PERS account from a previous job that's at about 7,300 right now. Is that something I should consider cashing in to help pay this off? A what account? >> A pers.

>> Okay. I don't know if I know what that is. That's probably something George would know. I don't know what that is. >> As long as there's not fees attached to it or you get penalized or something. I don't know. Something weird. But yeah, >> if you're able to get that but and hey, stay on the line, Crystal. Um, Kelly's going to pick up. We're going to give you an Aldi gift card. Aldi is an incredible place to shop for your groceries cuz there it's so inexpensive.

It's amazing and the quality is great. And they gave us some gift cards. So, Crystal, stay on the line. We're going to give you an Aldi gift card to help at least for this month. >> Get you launched out of here. Absolutely.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am

Rachel Cruz with Dr. John Deloney and

we're going to go to Gail in Pennsylvania. Hi Gail, welcome to the show. >> Hi, good afternoon. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Uh my husband and I uh we are 55 and we

are about to

uh be selling our home and we are purchasing a home together with my

parents. We'll all be living together in the home and uh we have a great

relationship and want to enjoy some

years together and then as they need help as time goes by we'll already be there and that that is simple for all of

us. So, my dad is a disabled veteran and

with that uh has an exemption from

property taxes, which is about $10,000 a

year. So, if my husband and I are on the

deed for the house, then we do not have

that exemption and we would pay those taxes. Um, or we can not be on the deed

and save that uh tax amount each year.

And I know the uh I've heard Dave talk many times about you you if you're not on the deed, it doesn't count. And and I get that. Uh but I was wondering if you

would have anything other to say in this

case. I would

I the way you're setting it up, I would probably um have get a this would be overly

formal. I would probably get a lease, a renters's lease and say I'm renting a room from the owner of this home.

>> Okay? >> And at some when and if your father decides that I'm going to deed this house over to y'all, that might be the cleanest way to do that. And if you've got sibling, just prepare for that to be a nightmare when you'll untangle all that. >> Well, I'm I'm an only child, so that >> you wouldn't even have to worry about that. >> That would probably be the way I would do that.

>> So, what what does the what does a rental lease do for us?

>> It allows you to it I mean it you could

just move into his house, right?

>> That's essentially what it's going to be, Gail, from like a legal standpoint.

you're going to be aware. Yeah. So, basically your parents are buying a house and you and your husband are just moving in with them is what that is. And then if you end up paying part of the mortgage, you are paying >> into a asset that you don't own legally.

Um, and so what John's saying is some some type of um >> I mean I'm assuming you guys are going to help with the mortgage, right? Or are they just going to buy a house and you got and you guys are just living there and then you get to live there for free because you're taking care of them. Is that the is >> Well, so there there won't be a mortgage for it when when we sell our home. Um

we're going we'll contribute 150,000

toward it, but there's no mortgage.

There's no there's no ongoing payment other than utilities and upkeep and all, >> but $150,000 of your money though is going to be in

this asset that doesn't have your name on it. And so I I don't know the tax implications, but legally you're giving your parents $150,000 gift for them to purchase a home.

>> Okay? >> Because it it y'all are going to feel like it's all working together. But if you want to do this so you don't have to pay property taxes and you're all going to buy one house together, then legally,

yeah, you're giving them $150,000 gift.

They're going to buy a home and they're going to let you live in there rent free or they're going to charge you rent for it. And and here's here's I would say the reason I would I would recommend a lease is two reasons. One, if um can I

can I just give you some worst case scenarios just because this is what we deal with. >> Yeah. >> Um mom passes away and dad has dementia

>> and he says, "Get out of my house. I don't want y'all here." >> Or I'm trying to think of worst case scenarios. he rear end in somebody and they sue him and they want to take this like I I want there to be a >> there's no protection for you all. >> There's no protection at all when you just give $150,000 this way. I would prefer you to have $150,000 in a high yield savings account and y'all pay rent towards this thing every month.

>> But I do get the idea that y'all don't want a mortgage. But it it's illegally y'all are giving them a gift and I don't know what the tax implications if they're going to have to pay taxes on that gift. I don't know how that's going to work. >> And I would I would meet with probably an estate attorney, Gail, just to get a wording within a will um that when they

pass or when one of them passes, you know what that looks like. It's just a domino effect that we see, right?

>> Um we've already done that part with the estate attorney and have >> have those pieces. >> That's great. So that's with the death aspect, but then I mean as John's saying like things can happen when they're alive. Um you know that that could affect the h that something happens to them a situation legally um medically I

don't know what it is and they need to >> passes away mom suddenly gets remarried four months later and all like and the only reason we say those things is because those are the calls we get.

>> And I know and you're it's easy to be like that won't never happen and it usually doesn't happen. That's just the that's the calls we get all the time.

>> Sure. We have we have addressed a lot of those with the estate attorney.

>> Okay. >> Um >> yeah. >> So at the end of the day, if your name's not on the deed scenario, >> yeah, if your name's not on the deed, it's not your house.

>> And so I I would feel comfortable living

with my parents under this arrangement, but I want to sign a lease agreement that says I'm renting this this room for $100 or this part of the house or whatever for $100 a month or $100 a year. I don't care what the number is.

Um, and also I don't ever want somebody to come back and say, "Hey, we think y'all are committing tax fraud or you're taking advantage of X, Y, or Z." Right.

>> A system. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I mean, again, from a legal standpoint, your parents would be able to do whatever they want with this house because their name is on it that you have no ownership in this. And so, if that's the and and I don't know why this

this may be wrong. I don't know. It there's a little bit of more peace because you all are older. I don't know why. It just feels like there's probably less complications >> than if it was a 25-year-old couple moving into their 50-y old parents house. >> 100%. Yeah. So, for some reason, the the age gives me a little bit more peace of the stage of life you guys are in.

>> Um because we do get calls with young couples that want to entangle themselves with parents and all of them. I'm like, you have a whole life ahead of you that's about to get really messy really fast. >> Um >> and let me say one more thing, and this is not directed at you, Gail. This is just in general. Um, the more you try to

game a system and go around things and undercut things to avoid paying this or I want to not pay that, so I'm going to do this.

>> I just want to ask what's at the end of the day, I'm going to ask myself, what's my integrity worth? And if I know this is actually my house, but I want to take advantage of your thing. >> So, I'm going to put someone else's name on it. >> Put someone else's name on it, but it's actually mine.

I'm going to say my integrity is not worth $10,000. It's not worth,000 bucks a month. Do I want to write that check in property tax every year? God, no.

But my integrity is not for sale. And so I that's just something to think through. I don't think that's you in the situation, Gail, but if I know actually this is my house, but I don't take advantage of a a government benefit because of your military service.

>> Part of me kind of feels kind of gross about it. >> Yeah. Well, that's fair. Yeah. People hiding information in order to get a better deal. >> Part of that kind of feels gross to me. I think there's a a VA benefit that's amazing and wonderful and as a taxpayer I'm glad we have that. Yeah. >> Um >> Yeah. And I wouldn't do this arrangement right now, Gail, because of that specifically, right? That maybe when they get when they when they do need your help in 10 years, maybe you guys make some arrangement then.

>> Um but yeah, no, that's a great point, John.

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YouTube. All right, let's go to the phones. We have Abby in Oregon up next.

Hi Abby, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

Um, so I've have a complex situation with my mother. Um, I'm an only child and she has struggled financially um,

most of my adult life. Um, she's now

almost 70 and she doesn't have any

retirement. Um, she's currently unemployed. Um, she hasn't yet started

taking social security because she's waiting for the full amount at 70, which is in February.

Um, and she's been inconsistently employed for years and years. Um, so I don't think Social Security is going to be a lot anyway. Um, and so now I'm facing two issues. One is short-term she's come

to me for the first time saying she's totally out of money um, and is trying

to figure out how to pay her bills this month. and then longterm how to set boundaries for >> the fact that she's just not going to have much income uh for the next you know 20 some odd years of her life. Um,

and I I don't know how to support her

while, you know, having healthy boundaries, I guess, and and it's she's also has some mental health issues involved um with OCD and hoarding and stuff. So, she's there's lots of complexity to this, but >> um >> and Abby, you're you're an only child, you said. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Oh, man. >> Um does she live near you from like a distance? >> Yep. >> About an hour away. >> About an hour away. Okay. And how are you financially? Where are you at?

>> I'm stable. Um my husband and I just moved um to kind of a simpler home and

downsized a bit so we could pay off debt. Um and I've got a little bit of debt left I'm trying to pay off, but um I make a pretty good income and now that we have lower monthly expenses for everything else, I should have that paid off in about a year and a half to two years. >> Okay. So, how much how much do you guys make a year?

>> Um combined we're about 150.

>> 150. Okay. And what's the debt left on?

>> Um I have um a truck that and a camper

trailer that I do travel nursing. So >> Okay. Okay. And so that'll be paid off the next year and then you guys will be debtree.

>> Correct. And then just the house is left. And the house we only owe in Oregon it's really I mean houses in Oregon are pretty expensive. So um we only owe about uh 94,000 on this new house.

>> Oh, good. Okay. Well, that's Yeah, that's really encouraging. Okay.

So Abby, like this this is I appreciate you having the courage to call. Um there are millions and millions and millions of adult kids who are facing this same dilemma. >> Yeah.

part of this conversation, how do I get healthy boundaries? What do I do about this call? I think you and your husband

need to sit down and be honest about

how are we going to care or not care for my aging mother.

>> Yeah, >> that's a harsh way to say many conversations this last month. >> Okay. I but I think it's because if if you know deep down I'm not going to let my mom go into a um under a bridge and

into a shelter. >> Right. Right. and I'm going to move her into this back bedroom here. Um, then that frames what boundaries look like.

What if, hey, mom, we're going to give you this much money, but you're going to live now. You're going to live by my rules, right? Like the reverse of how you grew up. >> Um, then you can have a different conversation. If your boundaries are you made your choices, mom, I don't care about you, whatever.

>> Um, >> I wouldn't wish that, but that you're like, it's your life, right? I want you to be honest about your stance on >> where's your line's going to be.

Otherwise, you end up choosing resentment over guilt.

>> And she doesn't deserve that. Y'all don't deserve that. It's just a way to set your house on fire from the inside out. >> And so coming up with this is the boundaries going to be.

Then you can begin to say, "Okay, mom, I'm going to pay this bill or you know what? You're letting your lease go. You're going to move in with us now. Or I'll give you this much money or I'll pay the bill directly.

We're going to pay $200 a month. We're just going to make this a regular thing.

>> Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I'm I think I'm trying to find kind of a middle ground. Um which is always easier said than done, but um >> I don't know if there is one here. Do you think there is one?

>> So, she she owns her home. Um just

recently paid it off. Um >> but she doesn't have the money for property taxes that's coming up. um which be around 4,000ish somewhere in there. Um >> she um she just switched her home

owner's insurance to monthly so she could pay that slower which was good. Um but her house is practically condemnable. She hasn't had flowing water for years. Um it's you can't move

around in the space. It's not a safe space. But I have tried over and over again to get her to leave and she won't.

um she has this grandio savia in her mind of >> what she wants her home to look like someday. And >> so um you know unfortunately that's her

only asset. You know if she could even as it is she could still get you know in Oregon she could get $250,000 for that house. >> And so that could be a source of income if you invested it.

>> Um but I can't convince her to do that.

And there's even like really great um we don't have section 8 here. We have like a voucher program where >> people get a voucher and then can live wherever they want to rent. Um, >> but she doesn't want to rent. She wants to own. >> Um, but 250,000 won't buy you another house here. Very very >> But you have you have to exhale and know

my mom's not well.

>> Yeah. >> And so I I trying to address a situation

an irrational situation. I don't mean that like in an erratic bananas, right?

Like somebody who is not critically thinking well, whose cognitive processing isn't well, trying to solve that problem with data and facts isn't the solution. >> Yeah, that's what I'm running into. The solution is what do I care about you

>> and here's if you want this money, here's what that's going to look like.

>> Okay. >> Cuz she's going to she's going to get a mathematical uh reality forced on her one way or the other. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. They're going to come take her house cuz she's going to get behind on on property taxes or her neighbors are going to call for all the stuff in the front yard and they're going to take her home or um she's going to get your

support and begin to make some changes

>> and I'm afraid it's going to happen cuz Yeah. I mean I'm with you Abby. I'm like oh my gosh because I'm asking you John. Yeah.

If Abby, if you can't reason with her logically, like you're saying, is there just a natural unfolding of real consequences of the real world? You don't pay your property tax, mom. So, they're going to take it and like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, >> that's why that's why I started the call with Abby, y'all, you and your husband have to decide, not if, but when it comes to it.

>> Because that's going to be our option, >> right? If she loses everything, >> right? And and you can sit down and maybe she'll hear that. I doubt it.

hoarding, especially in elderly populations, is a that means she's in a really tough spot, right? She's been struggling for a while. >> And so, >> sitting down and having a heartto-heart isn't going to get us there, >> right? >> If she could get on some medication, if she would get some support and all that, but you may have I'm I'm confident y'all have been down that road for years and there's to no avail, right?

>> Yeah. I'm still trying, but Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Would she respond to the words, "Mom, they're going to come take your house." >> Yeah, I've tried that. >> Okay. Okay. that they're going to condemn your house and they're going to take it away cuz >> just the fact that she hasn't had water running for a couple years is a huge red flag for the city.

>> Absolutely. >> Um so I mean they could easily come condemn it tomorrow and then she'd lose everything. And I've been trying to tell her that but it doesn't it's not getting through.

because she won't do any of the things that make sense. And so >> I'm stuck trying to do it her way. But then do I just put money into a sinking ship that isn't like >> like if I just pay her bills for >> it's not even good for her to stay there. >> It's unhealthy and unsafe.

>> You know what I mean? So there's a part of you that's like it's kind of like a like a blessing in disguise if something happens to the home and then you know Abby could and her husband could be there at that point >> assuming that she would even move in with you guys, right?

But yeah, I I'm going to suggest to as

best you can, this is hard because it's your mom, right? Nobody wants this. But traffic in reality, what is what is true and what is real, not what is what we want to happen.

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Thank you so much for listening and watching the show. Um, we so appreciate it. One of the best ways to spread the word is to share the show uh with your friends, with your family, on your social media platforms, all the things.

because as we get the word out about the show, more and more people hear about it, listen to it, and hopefully get control of their money, which we love.

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All right, next up we have Jesse in Wisconsin. Hi, Jesse. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, thanks for taking my call. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

Okay. Um, so recently within the last couple months, I had um my grandfather passed away and um sorry, thank you. Um,

it's just me and my dad um at next to Ken. Um, he had gifted us with um in his

assets with money cashwise is like 850 I

think. And then he also owns 80 acres of

land up in uh up in Wisconsin. Um my

question is is all the assets and all

the money is is going to be put into my name. Um >> not >> my dad because of my dad has kind of lived like a kind of like a rough life if you could say. >> Okay. >> So without money coming back and getting taken for taxes back whatever it's all going to go into my name.

But my question is is is it best for me cuz this is my dad's going to live off this money for the rest of his life. It's just just the way that's going to be. It's best that's for me to put >> Bro, can I just stop real quick?

>> Yes. >> This is one of those ideas that looks good on paper and man, you are now basically your dad's dad.

>> Dude, it's been like that pretty much forever. But I understand what you're saying. >> I hate you're in that position, man. I hate that for you, brother.

>> Yeah. Um, I guess the what you're saying is the my thing was to put it in my name and then do I reinvest the whole his whole half because we can make more money off of it that way or you know do I kind of take so much out pay a pen because I'm going to pay a penalty on it pay a penalty on it and put it into CDs or some kind of quick money. Do you understand? >> Not really. What do you mean you're going to get a penalty on it?

>> Well, so the there is a Roth in the in some of the accounts. I I guess I don't know. Do I reinvest all of it or should do I take some out and kind of get rid of the problem like what you just said.

You know what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. I mean I would I would keep it within if you can shelter it tax-wise with the Roth all of that that would be ideal. Um how what is the the 850,000?

What is it divided up in? What what is it all sitting in right now?

Um, well, he has a financial guy here locally where I'm from and it's and I I

think half of it, most of it was in a Roth and then he has it into some more aggressive um stuff, too. I'm actually going to meet up with him tomorrow to kind of like finalize all the paperwork.

>> Okay. >> Um, but that was like my question. Do I,

you know, keep reinvesting it and just throw it all back in there or I mean, is it better for me to take some out?

>> Well, I mean, some of it you can use for your life to get you ahead financially.

um things like a home if you have debt.

So, where are you, Jesse, financially?

>> Um I um I own um a house. I own two

houses. I don't really have any debt. I've kind of paid everything off. I don't have any debt. And I >> even on the homes, no mortgages.

>> I I have I have one mortgage on my house um um down in another town and I own my

other house up in um another town locally. >> Okay. Where are you living? Are you in one of those houses? Are you living in one of those houses?

Yes, I'm living in one and then um the other one I bought I'm kind of refixing up. My grandmother passed away about three years ago and she get she left me her house. So I'm living in that house right now with no I mean I just pay taxes. >> Okay. Okay. Um so how much do you have left on the other mortgage?

>> Uh like 83,000.

>> Okay. And the home that you're fixing up, are you planning on selling that or Yes, you are. Okay. How much how much would it go for?

>> About 150. Okay, that's great. Um, and

how much how much >> Where does your dad live?

>> Um, where wherever.

I mean, I sometimes he's with a different girlfriend right now, you know. >> So, what what expectations, financial expectations, is this money going to have to supply for him.

>> I'm trying to make it I'm I'm trying to be the smarter one, trying to make this the make it the most of it. You know what I'm saying? >> I I know, but here here's the problem.

You're using big I'm going to make the most. I want to do the best. still want to try to get the growth. You have an actual true math problem in front of you.

And the more specific you can be about that that math problem, which is your dad, >> the better off you can plan for this thing. Here's what I mean. If you decide in your head, I'm going to put 425 for my dad and I'm going to keep 425. That's what me and granddad shook hands on.

And your dad goes into acute liver failure and it's going to cost you $3 million to get a liver transplant or whatever, you're going to have a hard choice to make, right? And >> so, or he blows through it all in two years, >> right? And he has nowhere to go. Are you going to let him live on the street or is he going to move into your back bedroom?

root level conversation and then saying here's the dollar amount, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um that I mean I guess

Yeah. But with that 425, let's say um is

it worth keeping it in there? He's 60 61 years old. >> Does he need your money? Is he asking you for it? >> Well, he's going to I mean, dude, he's going to need it, you know. working right now, Jesse? Does he work?

>> No. No, >> he doesn't. >> No. >> How's he paying bills right now?

>> Um I I mean I think he does like little like uh side jobs or something like that, you know. >> Okay. >> But no, there's no like full-time.

>> I mean, honestly. Okay. So, you're So, you there was a handshake with your granddad that said, "This money is going to go in your name, Jesse, because you're responsible, but this part of this money or half of this money is supposed to go to your dad to make sure that he's doesn't live on the streets, right? That this is his 50/50 on the will, but me and my old man had made this agreement where we're just going to put it into mine.

>> Okay, then you if it's in the will, brother, keep it separate. Keep it separate. >> I know there's a part of me, Jesse, I I don't like the idea of you feeling you having to be the caretaker of your dad.

>> There's a part of me, tell me, John, I don't know if this is right, but I mean, my knee-jerk is to say, Jesse, split it h split it down the middle. Your dad takes his portion. He gets to decide what to do with it, but you're not the bank anymore. Once the money's gone, Dad, it's gone. So you can either choose to invest it, live on it wisely for the rest of your life or if you squander it

away like I you can't come to me for money like I we're this is it. This is the like right I would just like keep it short and simple and clean instead of

you holding all of it and trying to pay your dad dividends and when he needs it he comes to you and you're kind of like the bank. Like that feels off to me. I almost would go I would almost go 50/50 and let your dad >> it's one or the other. It's 50/50 or you understand I'm going to be his full-time caretaker.

>> But you're you're trying to do both, >> right?

it should be okay. But I need to have that conversation first to make sure I don't want to be involved, you know.

>> Absolutely. 100%. >> Yeah. 100%. And you can even say, "Hey, Dad, I'm going to meet with a financial planner. Why don't you come to the meeting too and see what they have to say? And you take your half. You get to make a decision on what you want to do.

I'm going to make a decision with mine.

And maybe it's the same decision. Maybe you both decide we're going to invest it. But I would keep it still separate in the investments because if he starts messing with it and you know what I mean, pulling money out.

>> Um >> Yeah. I I don't I don't like the idea of a 61-y old man coming to his 40-year-old son saying, "Hey, I want to buy a car." >> Yeah. I That's the thing, too. If I'm going to take that money out, I'll just take out some money at the get-go, get in a car, you know, house and stuff, and then reinvest whatever else.

>> But you don't need to do that, Jesse. He needs to do that with his house. >> Yeah, no kidding. I got a lot of stories about that. >> I know. Here's the deal. You don't want to be his caretaker, but you are living in the reality that you kind of have to be his caretaker.

>> Right on. >> Okay. And so you have to decide, I'm either going to go all in on this role

or I'm going to sit down, have a hard conversation with my dad, and say, "Dad, there's $425,000 in account. I'm not managing it for you. And when it's gone, it's gone. Don't come to me for it." >> Right. Um, and I might talk to that financial guy, too, and like I said, let me Heaven be there, and we're going to just, you know, otherwise, like you said, it's going to be just a mess.

>> It already is a mess. to put you. You've been put in an incredibly awkward situation and I hate this for you, but I also want to applaud you, brother, for being trying to be a good man to your to your dad. >> Yeah, for sure.

For sure. So, Jesse, if I if I were in your shoes and I had half of this money, I would pay off whatever debt I have, including the mortgages, um I would take some cash out, if you don't have cash, just as an emergency fund and stick it in a high yield savings account. And then, yes, I would leave the rest in investments. And that could be index funds, mutual funds.

Don't do anything crazy, Jesse.

Don't go and like do some scheme thing over here. Like keep it simple. Mutual funds, index funds, let it grow at 10%, your money will double every 7 years if you leave it alone. So just do that quick math and just know where it can grow to.

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Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 19:2.

Desire without knowledge is not good.

And whoever makes haste with his feet misses his way. As a rock star, I have

two instincts. I want to have fun and I

want to change the world. I have a chance to do both. Bono, that's pretty

good. I feel like he does that. >> What band was he in? I'm just kidding.

Totally kidding. I was going to put you I was going to put you on the spot there. >> I'm not good with music. But it is you too, right? >> No, it's Coldplay. I'm totally kidding at you. >> Okay. I was like, "Oh, man." That's a very classic. >> I was I'm I'm terrible. I can name the

Backstreet Boys, but that's about as far as uh >> Yeah, kind of the same. Kind of the same. James Charles just passed out in the in the >> I'm really proud of you, Rachel. >> I'm sorry, James. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. And he does a lot of great stuff. I feel like he is definitely a philanthropist at heart >> and financially and and in action.

>> Thank you. And in action. Yeah. With his money. He is. It's great. the old the

old Bono. >> Oh man. All right, let's go to Darren in

Oklahoma. Hi Darren. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Huge fan of the show. >> Oh, thank you. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

>> Um, so I'm 50, my wife is 46. Um, happy

to say we are completely debtree.

>> Good for you all.

>> On a personal side. Um, so all of our

personal finances, our home, all of our cars, um, no credit card debt, it's all paid off. Um, now we also we have an LLC

and we own 15 single family homes.

Um, nine of those single family homes still have um small mortgages on them.

And when I say small, most of them are less than $10,000.

>> Okay? Um, some are, you know, around the

20 to $30,000 range, but all total

equity wise in those rentals is about $1.5 million.

>> Okay. >> My CPA is telling me this as these mortgages are getting close to being paid off. My CPA is saying, "Look, you know, you've enjoyed this cash flow for, you know, for all these years." And because you

have these mortgages coupled with the

expenses that you have with the rentals, with insurance and things like that, taxes, you know, you've enjoyed a luxury of not having to very have a very high tax burden. As these mortgages start

getting paid off, your tax burden is going to increase. So his advice to me

is as these mortgages get down to $4 and

$5,000, go borrow $10,000 against that house to

keep that mortgage going. Stick that $10,000 in your checking account or do

whatever you want with it because that money is not taxable. Therefore, your tax burden over the next few years is going to continue to stay low because

you have these mortgages to help offset that income. Now, I've kind of on a

personal side, I've kind of lived by Dave's principles for the last 20 years

of, hey, you know, all this debt needs to go away. Uh, and that's what we've done on a personal level, but from a business standpoint, what my CPA is telling me makes sense. Um, however,

because of how I've conditioned myself for the last 20 years to be, you know, completely debtree, it's it's hard for me to do that. So, you know, what are what are your thoughts on that?

>> If Dave was sitting here, I think he'd say, "Fire your CPA." >> You know, I kind of figured that might be his response. >> Yeah. And when he's talking about saving on the taxes, is it because you're not able to write them off? What does he mean by that? Or the income coming in, it changes your tax bracket? What's he saying? it. That's it. Because um without those mortgages to take off of

that taxable income, uh it's going to

change my tax.

>> Yeah, >> that's correct. So, he says, you know, borrow this money and reinvest back into the houses if you want to because that money is not taxable. Um and whereas if

the mortgage was completely paid off and every dime of that is going into your pocket every month, then your tax bracket making more money on it. Sure.

Right. >> Correct. >> But also, you know, the way the taxes are staggered and again, your CPA knows the numbers. I understand this, >> but it's not going to be the full I mean, the full amount like it's you once you hit that bracket, yes, the things the income above that bracket will be taxed at that new tax level. Um, but to avoid the taxes by taking on more debt

is what we would say that you're continuing to take on risk and you're continuing to live in a system at which people own you. I mean, you don't own it free and clear at that point. And so, taking the hit on the income to pay taxes to be free.

I mean, I take that all day versus freaking trying to play this game where I'm borrowing on this and borrowing on that. >> I've been I've been hearing about this for months now. So, take one of your houses. I want to play this out mathematically. Take one of the houses that you own. >> Okay? Is is it is it $100,000 house, $200,000 houses?

Um they range from about 100 to 200.

Yes. >> Okay. So you're you're doing mostly low-income housing, right? You got 15 of them. >> Well, in this area, that's considered a fairly nice home. Northeast Oklahoma, you know, $200,000.

>> I mean, I've got a 3,000 ft home on the golf course that's paid for free and clear that I paid 310 for. So, and it's like Okay. >> Really nice. >> Okay. So, 310. What do you rent that house for?

Oh, the 310 is my house. The the 200

$200,000 uh I've got a $200,000 rental. I rent it for $1,500 a month.

>> 1,500 bucks a month. Okay. So,

>> that one has no mortgage.

>> No mortgage. All right. So, what do you pay annually on taxes on that house?

>> Um about $1,000.

>> Okay. So, >> my total tax burden on all 15 homes is

about six grand.

the complete tax burden.

>> That's correct. Taxes in Oklahoma are dirt cheap. >> Okay. So, if you had 15 houses and you

went and borrowed $10,000 on them

and you put that money in a checking account, what is 15 time 10?

>> 150k.

>> What is 150k time 6%. Which is the minimum you'd

get a loan for? Mhm. Point. Yeah.

>> $9,000.

>> You need to fire your CPA, dude.

>> Cuz his little trick just cost you three grand.

>> What you're paying in interest to the bank. >> You see what I'm saying? You're going to pay the interest of what you're Yeah.

>> Then you're you're paying more in interest to the bank taxes. If you were in California and your taxes were 700%,

right? And I'm being ridiculous, right? Or in Texas, the the property taxes are astronomical in Texas.

right? >> Then you might be able to prop this game up. And I'd still make I think I still think there's a mathematical case where I'm right. But in just your situation,

you're paying six grand total on all the all the property taxes against these places. Are you talking Are you talking about earned income tax? It's the income tax. >> All right. There you go.

>> So my math >> problems. Yeah. Yeah. But still, unlike, you know, from the tax bracket, which I don't have in my head right now, you know, you're offsetting the 6%. To your point though, the interest you're paying versus if you're going to bump up a few percentage points, pay extra.

>> So, I mean, like when you don't when you actually rent it out, well, what is it?

What's the difference? You know, because you're paying something to loan this to get to take money out of this home to loan to loan it, right? And so, >> well, sure, fees and interest and, you know, and all of the above.

>> Yeah. And so, at the end of the day, what are you really saving because, you know, while these houses are great, you you know, they're not, you know, $800,000 homes that you're renting out, right, that you're going to be take, you know. Correct. >> So, here's the thing. I I hear I hear this I hear this all the time. I hear um

and I'm just going to get an egregious name, right? Elon Musk doesn't have doesn't make a salary. He owns this much

like hundreds of millions of dollars of stock and he goes to a bank and he takes a loan out against that stock and then he gets that loan and he gets to spend that interest free.

Okay. And I'm hearing I'm going to move this over here. You're playing you got 15 houses. It's not a small you you got a good business going. >> Yeah. >> I'm telling you at least off the front off top of my head and I can't do the math. I did the math on the property taxes, not on the earned income tax. And you're correct. But I'm not playing that game for one reason. I don't want to keep up with it.

>> I want to own my houses. I don't mind paying the taxes. I'm not going to play a game where I loan this bank money and you borrow money for me and I'm going to give it to you. I'm going to dude pay the taxes that I earn. That's >> all right. Thank you guys so much. John, great hour of the show. Thank you, America, for listening. And remember, there's ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 38. Don't Allow Your Relationships To Become Transactional | November 6, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by my co-host Rachel Cruz and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Anna is going to kick us off in San Jose. Anna, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. >> Um, I'm calling in today to see if it's worth it to buy a house. Um, a little background of me. I'm 20 years old. I'm doing a PhD in biomedical engineering. I have a degree in biomedical engineering as well and I plan to go to medical school. Um, my parents want me to buy us

a house cuz I have the money financially.

I'm just wondering to see what do you guys think. I don't want to >> That sentence was wild. You your parents want you to buy us a house?

>> Yes. >> Like want to buy >> the entire house? >> The family. You them.

>> Do you have siblings?

>> Yeah, I do. Um, I have two brothers and I have one sister. Well, my my brother does not live with us.

>> Okay. >> Um, but >> where are you guys living now? >> Another brother.

>> Sorry, say that again. >> Where are you guys living now?

>> Um, >> like are you guys renting?

>> No, no, no. We own a house. It's a pretty big house. It's like 2,000 square ft. But my mom wants a nicer house cuz my uncle has a nice house. And you know it it's it's gonna go all on me and I'm just I'm really stressed and it feels like a lot of pressure. >> Well, sure. >> I want my mom to be happy.

>> Okay. So Okay. So I'm I'm so curious how this conversation goes. Do are they saying to you, Anna? You should buy us a house. We need a We need a new house.

Anna, you have the money. Why don't you just do it? Is that like is that how the conversation goes?

>> Yes. >> That is insane. I want you to know that >> house.

Why don't they just go buy a house? If they want a house, >> they can afford it.

>> It doesn't matter if you can afford it. You're not the one who wants a house.

>> If they want to upgrade a house, that's something they need to do as grown adults. >> How much money do you have, Anna?

>> I have around 150k cash.

>> A lot of it is in the market.

>> How do you have that much money at 20?

I'm just curious. Have you been working or how did you get that?

>> Um, I've been working since I was 15. I had a business at 15. I used to tutor people. >> We actually made an app. I don't want to say it publicly, but um we sold the app.

>> I made that money. Um and then I've been working like all throughout university through my degree. And right now I work I make like 70 60k a year.

>> Wow. >> Oh my gosh. >> And how are you going to pay for med school?

>> Like through my money, through my savings. And you know, like I know money always comes and goes. I I mean, as long as you have the skills and you can provide value, you can always make money. >> Okay. So, this $150,000, is that earmarked to pay for med school?

>> I have around 100k. So, yes.

>> Okay. So, therefore, it is not house buying money, especially when it's your parents who are forcing you to do this.

So, I would just tell them kindly and firmly, no, the money I have is to cash

flow my med school expenses.

>> Yeah. >> I will not be buying a house. >> And the truth is, Annie, when you when you go to med school and you start doing all of your programs, you know, you you have no idea what city you're going to be at. You have no idea what hospital you're going to be at doing, you know, all of your clinicals. I mean, every move across the country. >> Yeah. So, so no, in no way do you need

to be buying a house in your, you know, where you are in your season of life.

let alone the complete dysfunction of

your parents. Like, you know, that's crazy, right?

>> And it sounds insane. I I don't want to do it, but I want my mom to be happy.

You know, like she says my >> It's not your job to make your mom happy. >> It's not your job. And she sounds like a She's a woman that probably will never be happy. She'll get this house.

>> If you did, if you went through with this and you bought this, I guarantee you in three to four years, she's going to be like, "Oh, man. Well, my new friend has this house. So, >> a nicer car. It's time for the car upgrade. >> And the fact that she would go to her 20year-old and ask to not even ask kind of sounds

like demand or requested a house

>> is so wild. So wild. And you're you're smart. You know this. And so it it is

diff these will be difficult conversations, Anna. But the earlier you start doing this with kindness, but being very firm and knowing exactly where you stand, it's going to ruffle some feathers. But I would that this is going to be your life, right? I mean, I hate to say it, if these are your parents, I'm sure they were wonderful and raised you obviously did a great job uh you know, raising you because you're incredible, but but this is going to be

a picture of what the future looks like.

And if you can start putting up those boundaries now at 20 years old with a very obvious situation that there needs to be a boundary there, uh, that's just good. It's a good starting point for you. But I'm so sorry you have to do this. That's so unfair. It's an uncomfortable position. >> The fact they put you in the situation is crazy. >> Have you ever heard of the quote, you you give someone an inch and they'll take a mile?

>> Yes. >> That's what I think is going to happen with your family. They're going to continue to exploit everything you have

because you're the successful one in the family and they raised you and therefore how could you not buy them a house after everything they've done for you and they're going to use that to abuse and guilt you into things. That's the future that you have if you say yes to anything.

>> Yeah, you're right. Whatever you're saying yes to, look at what you're saying no. I always keep this in mind.

Um okay, here's one of my issues. I told

her I can't do this. She came in here and she was like, "You just need to sign the papers." And she was screaming at me for like an hour, 30 minutes to an hour,

saying, "Oh, don't worry. You'll remake the money." And I told her, "What about medical school?" She told me, "You can take loans." >> No. >> And I mean, >> and I'm going to be honest with you, I would move out if I were you. You make 60 $70,000 a year. You're a grown woman.

You're very smart. I would just go rent and say, "You guys need to figure this out. I'm gonna go out on my own.

>> And you don't give them a dime. You don't owe them anything.

>> Okay? >> That's the only way out of this because if you stay, they're going to say, "Well, you're under under our roof and look at everything we've done for you.

You need to just call it quits now cuz it's becoming a transaction instead of a relationship. It's about to be bank of Anna for the rest of your life if you don't put a foot down." >> And do they have what papers are they giving you? Do they already have a house they want to buy?

>> There's a house. Um they've been looking at houses and they'll send me like links of houses every day and um I I signed

the house like yesterday cuz I was like I mean I didn't know what to do. So I signed the contract and now I just need to give the earnest money in the >> Yeah. No no no earnest money. >> No. >> You need to back out of all of this. >> Okay. And Yeah. And I would kind of put it back on her. If money can just be earned and you can always make more money then go. Mom, >> are they both working full time >> and and support yourself? This is crazy.

>> My dad used to own a dealership. He he lost it in CO. Um, so I sell his cars.

>> We still have cars, but I sell them, but if I don't sell the cars, he doesn't do anything. So, right now, he's made no money. My mom is a teacher. She makes around 30k a year or 25.

>> And you're running dad's business while he sits around waiting for you to run his business.

Yes, but I've sold no cars this month or last month. I mean, I haven't had time.

>> Yeah, you're pretty busy.

>> Yeah, Anna, these are this is I I hate that you're in a position like this at 20 years old, but this is your reality and there is going to have to be some real hard conversations. And if you have the ability bandwidth wise, which financially you do, you make great money, I would sit down with a counselor or a therapist to walk through this. like this may be [music] some ongoing

discussions that are going to be had and I want you to be guided the right way.

So I almost would just find a professional to help you walk through this. [music] >> Best of luck.

[music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care? How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing?

Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost stinking pizza. >> It really is.

So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800 356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[music]

Lance is in Columbus, Ohio. Lance, what's going on?

>> Uh, not much. I'm just calling in to get some advice on my current financial situation. >> Sure. Lay it out for us.

>> Okay. So, I moved out to Ohio exactly a year ago with a goal to start clearing my debt away. I'm about $65,000 in debt.

Uh, it's a year later and I'm still pretty much in the same situation. And I don't understand why. I pay rent now and

I had to furnish my apartment when I got out here, but it just the math isn't adding up for me. >> How much do you make?

>> Uh at my new job, I make about a h 100,000 on a good year, assuming no layoffs.

>> Okay. So, in the past year, $100,000 has flowed through your hands in the last year, >> or at least that's the gross pay.

>> Yes. >> Are you doing a a pretty detailed budget, Lance, monthtomonth?

I mean, uh, about six months in, I really started cracking down on it because I saw that I wasn't gaining much traction. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how much is your rent a month?

>> Uh, rent's not too bad. It's $1,450.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Are you taking home five or six grand a month?

>> Um, a little bit more actually. It's about $2,000 a week.

>> Okay. >> Okay. That's great. >> Mhm. So, where is the rest of the >> Where's it all going?

>> Um, well, like I said, I I pay rent now.

Before I didn't pay rent when I lived back home in New Hampshire. Um, and then I had to furnish my apartment. I guess the rest just just gets trickled out

there. And >> $6,000 doesn't trickle out there. So, if I looked at your bank statement and I added everything up, where would be the big piles of money that disappeared? Is it eating out? Is it subscriptions? Is it spending? Is it gambling? Any vices?

>> I I don't gamble. Um I I have a lot of

bills. I mean, I I have a truck payment

that's $500. I have insurance that's

$400 plus. I have a Harley that's $500.

Um >> break down the 65,000 for us. What are the balances and and what are they owed for?

>> I have about It's 65,000 give or take.

Um, I I have 30,000 on my Harley. I have

$25,000 on my truck. I have $8,000

on a personal loan. And I had $10,000 on

credit card debt, which I was able to manage down to $1,000.

>> Oh, good. >> Well, what good news is if you sell all

the vehicles Well, I mean, yeah, you got

that's 55,000 of your 65,000. I think we

found a problem. I looked into selling my Harley um back to the dealership when

they >> No, not to the dealership. >> The dealership. They're gonna give you the worst price. >> They'll screw you harder than anyone. >> Have you Have [laughter] you Kelly Blue Booked it? >> Yes, they do.

>> What's the Kelly Blue Book private party value?

>> I believe it's at 17,000.

>> I don't buy that. How are you that far underwater? >> What about your truck?

>> I haven't looked up the blue book value on it. Did you roll over negative equity for this Harley?

>> The Harley? No, it was a $30,000 Harley.

It was brand new.

>> Yeah, but how long have you had it?

>> Um, I'm going on the third year now, I

believe. >> Cuz if that's the case, it's in half. I mean, the value of it went in half, >> which I don't I'm not up on my Harley's.

I know that's probably shocking, but I don't >> Yeah, >> I don't keep up with the market on Harley's, but >> she's a Mitsubishi gal. That's [laughter] That's bad. Okay. Okay. Let's just keep playing with the numbers here, Lance. Okay. Your truck. When did you get the truck?

>> I got the truck uh last year right before I moved out to Ohio.

>> And it was it used, I'm assuming.

>> Yes. >> Yes. Okay. So, the good thing is the truck probably hasn't lost a ton of its value. So, let's just throw I don't know, let's say it's 22. Maybe you've maybe you lost three grand on it in the in the last year. So, what I would I

mean, honestly, what I would do is go and take out let's see um I would do 20.

I mean, maybe go if you can maybe sell

both of these things. Sell both the truck and the Harley, you may take out a Well, I was going to say that's a good chunk of a personal loan with all the negative difference pretty quick making the money you're making. >> I'm I'm willing I'm willing to sell my

truck and Harley. I do have a small car like a beater winter car that Okay. So, you have three You have three

>> things with wheels and motors. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, here's your homework. You need to find out the private party value and then the amount you're underwater on.

You either need to save that up through future paychecks or get a loan from a credit union for the difference so that you can clear the titles and sell these >> cuz that's going to be about 15,000 that you'll be negative on both of these around. So, >> I just I just don't know who to sell my Harley. I don't know how to sell my Harley, I guess, because the dealership was the only way I knew. And when they offered me less than half, I >> I mean, Facebook Marketplace, Cars.com,

Autotrader, there's a lot of people looking. You bought a Harley brand new for 30. So, three years later, someone's looking for it at half price.

>> Okay. I just I've never I've never sold anything that I that a bank owned, you know. >> Sure. Well, here's the deal. You're going to need to clear the title before they can actually take possession of it.

And that's why you need the difference either in cash that you save up or that loan from the credit union.

>> And you can do all the transactions on the same day. So the day you sell it is the day you go down to the wherever you owe the the loan to and you pay off the loan with the difference. >> Yeah. Because you just cut all your debt in half, Lance, when you do this, >> which means you get back again. You said the $600 payment for the Harley, the

$500 car payment. I mean, that's $1,100 less insurance. But here's what worries me a little bit is even after some of the things you were just saying. I mean, you still have a couple of grand sitting there um that is kind of disappearing that you still at the beginning of the call weren't able to tell us exactly where it was going.

So, that's still enough money for me to be like my only fear lands is when you do all of this and it does give you margin and frees you up that you're going to go back to this kind of spending habit that you're in of not knowing exactly where your money's going. And that's not going to be helpful either because instead of $4,000 slipping through your fingers, now it'll be 6,000, right? Or whatever it is.

and control your money and where it's

going. And so before we get off the call, Christian will pick up and we're going to give you a year of every dollar, which is our not just our budgeting app, but our overall financial um you can put in all of your numbers and your entire financial picture can be in this app, which is so helpful because you're going to be able to walk through the baby steps, pay off this debt, and we can really walk with you through it in this app.

You make great money, you work really hard, and it's disappearing through your fingers, and every dollar is going to help you take control of that uh to help stop that.

>> Yes, I I understand. I um a year ago I

was terrible with my money, and I'm still not the best, but I I have tightened down a lot, and I'm I've been living like a hermit for the last four or five months. I I'm I'm desperate to get out of debt. I want to >> I hear Yeah, I totally hear that, Lance.

What worries me is you've lived like a hermit for four months, but there's no been there's been no progress. So that's what I'm saying. It's like the two things don't add up. I want you to be a hermit, but I wish you'd called. I'm like, I was a hermit for four months and I paid off $9,000 of my debt, you know,

whatever it is. Like I want the the sacrifice to produce a result because it's just crazy to sacrifice and have no result, right? And so that's the power of when you are working a very detailed plan is you're getting the results that the sacrifice, you know, is allowing.

And so that's what I want those two parents because you'll you'll run on fumes the rest of your life if you're living like this and not making any progress is which is what I'm sounds like you're doing. So, um, yeah, as a single guy, Lance Man, I really would I this is this is the time in your life to cut everything and even if you want to work extra, you make great money, but man, if you even want to just throw in some extra income just to get it paid off that much faster, um, to be able to have some savings, I Yeah, I mean, I think >> the money I make is is with immense overtime.

>> Yeah, I believe it. And I think that work ethic if it's channeled to more I just think you just maybe need more details and direction and it's going to

help you see kind of where you're going.

But you're right your your habits are like I hear that that you are changing for the better which I think is a is a great um way to go. And you know what Lance too I'm going to say like some people their money story is that one day they they had the I had it moment and they changed everything. And then some people, they're like, "Hey, it took me about six months to kind of get all this under my belt to really learn and understand it and then they take off." And that just may [clears throat] be your story, which is great, but I just want you to see some progress to at least keep you motivated to stay with it.

>> Yeah. Hang on the line and Kelly will pick up. Christian will pick up.

>> [music]

>> This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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>> Martin is in Savannah, Georgia up next.

Martin, welcome to the welcome to the show, man. What's going on?

>> George and Rachel, awesome to talk to you guys. Thank you so much. Yeah, you as well. How can we help? >> Awesome. Um, all right. So, uh, this call is actually I'm looking to help my dad out. Um, my dad has $1.3 million net

worth. Um, that is 500 in a house paid for, 400 in a money market. He's got 200

in a thrift savings plan and he's got 200 in checking. Um, he lives very

frugal. He's by himself. My mother passed away in 2008. Um, he has four

forms of income. government retirement, the required minimum distribution, his social security, and a VA disability that he doesn't even touch >> all of that throughout the entire um >> How much is that per month?

>> I don't know exactly, but it is well well enough for him to live off of and he is just adding to his money market, his checking account. It just continues to grow. But he has nothing in any sort of investment. He is 80 years old. Um

his health is not great. Um, we recently

moved him near us so my wife and I can take care of him. And um, the other day I was talking to him and he mentioned, "Hey, what I think think about buying some gold and I was like, whoa, pump the brakes on that." And he [laughter] >> I was able to talk him off the ledge on that. Um, I did talk to him about investment in stocks and he has no interest in it, but I just want to help him out the best that he can.

>> Um, I will be managing or I'll be uh the beneficiary along with my brother. Um, we'll be splitting everything even even selling the house, selling his car, just any assets that he has. And I just want to set I want to set him up for the remaining part of his life, but also set us up for the future just to to do this very smartly. >> Yeah. Well, here's what I would say to

him if he called in. Okay. Um, I would

tell him that usually when it comes to emotions around money, when we make big decisions, um, that's not really a great guide because our emotions can take us places that are not, it's not reality.

So, >> sure, >> understanding reality is really big. And so, understanding that the market is a safe place to put our money. I mean, it is when you look at the long-term track record. Um, and the money that would be going into this this these accounts if

he did choose to invest them, he wouldn't even need them or see them because he has a paid off house. It sounds like he's a pretty lowmaintenance guy. He makes enough through what you were saying in his streams of income um to pay his bills and he's 80, not in the

best health of what you're saying. He's not going to go like climb Mount Rushmore or whatever Mount Rushmore. No, you don't climb Mount Rushmore [laughter] ever. I mean, I guess you could >> I don't think it's legal. >> President's faces. We don't want him to do that. No, we don't want that. No, but you know, he's not going to be going all over the world traveling. It's what it sounds like and doesn't have a desire to. So, because of all of those things,

>> the reason he would put money in is to continue the legacy at which he's built, which is pretty fantastic. Like, what he has set up already is incredible. So, the reason he would do it is to pass on to future generations and to make more money. Hey, I mean that that's that's that's that would be it, right? But I also would say on the other side of this, if he's 80 and he's not in the

best health and if putting money in the market stresses him out and loses sleep over it, that's not worth it either.

>> He's fine. He's fine. He doesn't have to. >> He doesn't have to do this.

He's going to be fine. So, >> yeah. I don't think you're going to like scare him into investing. Be like, "Dude, you're going to run out of money." He clearly isn't.

>> Yeah. So, it's a it's either a okay, my knowledge and my reason why has changed, so now I'm going to choose to do something differently, like put the money in. >> But again, I mean, we've talked to elderly people on this show and it terrifies them. And and we always say if you're fine financially, it's not worth it.

That is not worth it to be to lose sleep at night for a reason, you don't need to. You don't need to.

Um, so that would be [clears throat] the two sides of the coin. I think he should because I think it's a wise thing financially. You can use like an investment calculator and show him the track record of the S&P 500 and show him how he could have 2.6 million instead of 1.3. I don't know that he's going to be impressed. I think he might be like, I'm fine. Who cares? So, here's the truth.

He might pass away. You inherit this and then you grow this money the way you want to. >> Correct. Yeah. >> I don't know that his in his remaining lifetime that you're going to be able to change an 80-year-old's mind on how he views money and the world.

>> Yeah. But I you can steer him away from scams and traps and commodities that will not actually >> benefit. And we have and and that was the gold and and I I said listen if if you want to put money in gold imagine you know like Dave says put in the middle middle of the living room light it on fire. Are you willing to lose that much money? >> Yeah. >> And you know so awesome. Yeah. Um when

when I I mean when I do acquire this since none of it is in investments well the 200 in the thrift savings plan but for the most part we sell the house that's cash everything else is cash um will I be also looking at taxes on this since I'll be inheriting it or you know I'll just or just get with the smart vtor pro on stuff like that. I believe it would just go against his estate. And so as long as you know he doesn't have liabilities and you're the beneficiary on these accounts, um I don't believe that you would be paying taxes on that cuz you're not selling off a stock >> and so there's no capital gains here to be paid.

If it was in a traditional account and taxes haven't been paid on the growth, then you might be liable for taxes.

>> financial advisor he has uh he just moved and he needs he said he needs to go to a lawyer and get his estate not his estate um the will all redone and everything with the new state. So >> so he's at least willing to do that. He is and and him and I have got a fantastic relationship and we're actually he's very open to talking about this with me because he wants to know that um not only is everything going to

be handled correctly, but also he wants to know that I know what to do with it, too. >> That's wonderful. Well, I was going to say it might it'll be worth seeing if he would sit down, maybe you go with him and sit down with a Smart Veester Pro.

you connect with one on our website and just have an outside professional look at it and maybe they'll convince him of,

hey, you have a lot of money sitting on the sidelines. You're losing purchasing power every day. Inflation is eating away at this. You could really do something with this money to leave a legacy. And that [clears throat] might convince him and maybe he does some of the money over time. He does 50,000 this year, another 50,000 next year. He gets more comfortable with it and over time we start moving these two investments.

>> Yeah. And one of the things I was concerned with him for was that some of this money is not FDIC insured. Maybe at a minimum we move that over to something. So awesome.

>> Oh, 100%. Yeah. Thanks for the call, man. We're seeing more more and more of this for sure of just >> and he sounds amazing, Martin.

I mean, what >> doing a great job. >> Yeah. And just the fact that he'll even dialogue with his son. There's so many >> and be willing to create a will and talk about the >> estate.

Honestly, we talked to so many adult children who say like my parents will not do X, Y, and Z. um or they're having to take care of them. I mean, so the fact that yeah, you you hear something like this, I'm like, man, just incredible. Absolutely amazing.

>> We got a call, I think it was yesterday, and he was like, "Hey, my dad won't make a will. We have 10 siblings. He has a ton of real estate." >> Oh man.

>> Oh no. >> What an Might Shyamalan twist that was.

[laughter] >> And you're like, "How do I convince this guy?" I'm like, "I don't know. I don't know what information he has. >> I don't know the day or the hour." He somehow knows when he's going to die and when Jesus is coming back. Those are two pieces of information that nobody knows.

>> I think you should just climb Mount Rushmore and call it a day.

>> You have a better chance [laughter] of climbing Mount Rushmore. >> I know >> that is so true. But that think about it. If you truly love your family, why would you leave it to chance? Why would you leave it to the government to decide what happens? that and the relational strain it causes on the family of them

trying to make the decisions and decide and and it ends up tearing families apart. It really does. So, the clearer you can be, the more communication you can be or you can have um before your passing like that is such a gift to your family. It really is. And it sounds morbid and it's not fun to talk about, but um golly, it is a it is such a gift

for everyone to know exactly what's going on. And yeah, and when you die, you just say, "Okay, press play on." And it's Yeah. And it's smooth. I mean, >> you said it much nicer than I would. I I like to say, "If you hate your family, don't have a will and make it as confusing as possible. [laughter] >> If that's what the route you want, >> if that's what you want." If that's what you want. Yeah. It is. Uh Yeah. I don't

know. It It's interesting though, the people that truly don't even want to um

engage on any level of a conversation when it comes to death. And it's and again it's not fun to talk about but you guys having life insurance having a will in place like these things >> making sure your beneficiaries are correct. >> Yeah. I mean genuinely it is and it takes some work and again it's not always fun to think about but that it's irresponsible not to do that if you have a family.

>> Well then you run into the issue of well now they can't cognitively make these decisions and we never got financial power of attorney and now you have a real nightmare on your hands. >> Yes. Yes. So just do the work.

Be an adult. It's not always fun, but we got to do things that aren't fun sometimes. >> I can't wait till I'm 80 and scenile.

That's going to be a good time. >> You're going to be the grumpiest per.

>> Poor poor Mia and Henry. >> I'll just be settling into who I was made to become. That's all that'll happen.

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And the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So start Every Dollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. Jenna is in Boston

up next. What's going on, Jenna? How can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, my

husband and I recently have become just huge fans and uh, so we've have an

implement for a will. We went through the life insurance you guys recommend.

>> Oh my gosh, we're so proud of you guys.

>> Good job. Well done. Yeah, we've we did

the budgeting app and um we so we've

been comfortable like we've been fine, but we're in debt. So, I feel like we've

just been paying our minimums and

going along with it. And through your show, I've been getting like that sick feeling that like we are doing this all wrong. So, that's what kind of encouraged this. Um and we we do okay.

So, but we have uh about n combined

$98,000 of debt.

>> Okay. >> Because of mostly student loans.

>> Um I have about $36,000. My husband has

maybe 50. Okay. >> And then $10,000 give or take in like medical bills, credit cards, stuff.

>> Okay. >> So, that and we >> Any cars, Jenna, or is that just >> No, no cars. >> Perfect. Okay. >> No. um no car payments. So with um the

small like 10,000 I feel like we can do real quick and then it's getting into um

the student loans. So >> we budgeted it and I kind of um mapped

out it looks like we could say have it paid off >> in about under three years it looked like I think. So >> what do you guys make >> with that though? um combined somewhere around 230 typically.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Um so the reason um I originally my plan

was like a five-year plan. I really wanted to knock it down faster than that. So my husband puts like 6% of his

salary and he makes more than me in um

his 401k and so we talked about him stopping doing that. So, I make less than, but I I like have hold the benefits and things like that. And I work for a really big um investment firm and I get a 7% match. So, I do have a

decent 401k with them. Um do I stop

getting like do I should I stop putting money in that even though I'm getting that 7% from them by doing it?

>> Yes.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. all all of your focus needs to be

on paying off this debt. And Jenna, I would I would challenge you guys because of what you make. Um I would think you

would only need a deposit for maybe two years because I think you could pay this off in a year. You guys make $230,000.

You have a h 100,000. What if you guys lived on $95,000 a year and you did

nothing with your life?

So, I I do I definitely think we need to cut back on our spending and we could pay it things off a lot sooner, but the big ex So, we have we own a house. We have a mortgage. Our mortgage is about 2600 a month, which um for us is affordable right now. That's fine. Um but we also have a son, so we pay for daycare, which is about 300 a week or so.

>> So, about 1,200 a month. Um, so that's

kind of where um the bigger expenses are.

>> But you guys are bringing home what, like 15K a month. What do you What's your take-home pay?

>> Um, when I was doing the math in in the budgeting app, originally it showed like 11,000 or so, but I think that was before we touched um the health insurance and >> 401k after taxes. >> What's his gross? makes about 155 without his bonus.

>> Okay. And then what do you make?

>> Um I make about 70 without overtime and

without my bonus. >> Okay. So we'll call it Can we call it 80?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Give or take around. >> And you're doing 7%. So here's the the amount that you would free up to throw toward your debt per year. You're looking at 9,300 plus 5600.

That's pretty sizable. So you're talking $15,000 a year that could go toward your debt on top of all the margin you have.

And that's why we're saying, what if you pause for one year, go down to zero, and you come back guns ablazing in 2027,

investing 15%. Both of you investing 15%. >> You you will well make up for any lost employer match, investing 15% for the rest of your life versus the current track, which is I guess we'll just invest up to the match forever cuz we're going to have this debt for a long time.

>> So, do you see the intensity that we're after here? And by the way, going down to 0% investing is going to make you both mad, isn't it?

>> Mad at your debt. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely not.

>> Not mad at each other. So that's going to make you get out of debt faster because you want to get back to investing. And so it's kind of like a carrot you dangle in front of you saying, "Man, I want to get back to that." And that's going to fire you guys up.

>> Okay. So it's part math, parts.

>> Pay that off with daycare and the mortgage in a year. >> Yeah. I don't think daycare and the mortgage is your problem here. I think it's the other things that are >> Yeah, because that just that added up to 3,800 >> out of 11 grand.

So, it's like, can we live off of five for the rest and throw the other amount >> and that would get y'all paid off in a year and nine months more than just two and a half, right? So, like maybe make it a year and a half, >> see if someone can take on a, you know, part-time job for a couple of couple of months. Bring in and we talked to people making side hustles and they make two grand a month just on side hustles.

you guys do that and then you get an emergency fund in place then yeah you are you are good to go but it's just the

decision you guys have to make and everyone does that that does this and chooses to pay off their debt is the more intense you are the more you sacrifice the faster you get out and so it's just a decision of are we going to just live like crazy people for a year and four months and get this just taken care of and it's just insane. But it's done. But it's drag it out for three years or do we want to drag it out for three or four years? >> Life's going to happen.

You're going to get comfortable, complacent, and go, "Well, four years is okay." I want you guys to have such an aggressive specific goal to where we go 98,000 that's 81.66 a month.

We're going to pause investing to free up 1250 a month on top. If you start doing it like that, that makes me believe you'll actually get out of debt in a year. And people end up getting out of debt faster than what they originally calculate, Jenna, too, because there's things that you don't see and you don't know, like bonuses or raises, you know, or you pick up this thing or this thing you forgot you had over here and you throw it at the de I mean, it's just >> you're just willing to work harder. >> Yes.

Stuff ends up coming up, which is amazing. >> And then you get a promotion and get the bonus cuz they're like, man, >> Jenna's on fire this month. I don't know what got into her, but she is crushing it. And that, I think, will truly propel you guys into this debtree journey.

And then once you're debt free, you're never going to go back. And you'll get that emergency fund. Do you guys have savings right now that you could use to start this process? >> Yeah.

>> How much? >> Yeah, we we usually have um between five and 10 in savings. >> Okay. >> Oh, that's wonderful.

>> So, what if you used a bunch of that to knock out the smallest debts right now just to kind of kickstart it and say, you know what, this is us putting skin in the game. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah, that's not a bad idea. Thank you.

Yeah, I I could pay off by my husband.

>> Is he going to be convinced? I feel like he's still going to go, "Babe, we're not doing that." >> No, he's pretty The only thing he doesn't like is just the uh He's on page with me on all of it. He wants to pay it off. He's kind of dove into it all with me. He's in great um the only thing he likes is having a bit more of an emergency fund than a thousand just with kids and stuff, but sure.

>> Other than that, like he's pretty much good to jump into all of it with me.

>> Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I'm glad you guys are, you know, on the same page for the most part. And that's a normal fear. We hear that usually from >> if it's a couple, especially with kids, that is kind of a a thing that we have.

But the truth is, too, if something were to happen and you guys had to pause it that snowball, you have eight grand freed up per month. Do you know what I mean? Like you guys could get >> cash really fast if if something comes up that's more than a thousand. So, >> and again, with that emergency fund, that's going to add another fire lit under you.

you pause investing and you take your savings down, you're going to go, "Oh my gosh, we need to get out of debt ASAP." And that's going to again get you out of debt even faster. And so I encourage you guys to go all in on the plan cuz it works. And if you do it all cart like a buffet, >> it's not going to work as fast.

>> So just try it our way. >> And let me say though, kudos to you guys. I mean, y'all are at the very front end of all of this. I mean, just even doing the life insurance and the will and the budgeting app, every dollar and everything. Yeah, you guys are doing awesome. >> Love to hear it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by my co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Ann is in Jackson, Mississippi. Up next, Ann, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. >> Um I'm 60 plus years old, starting life

over again or supposed to be. Um just

got divorced. M >> um he was the private he was the bread winner of the family. Um we had been

putting like 15% away in 401's and savings and all of this or so I was led

to believe. Um and it turns out we were

he we weren't.

um and found out about that and affairs

and I told him that this wasn't acceptable and he told me I could get out of the house which I did. Um it became very

abusive very fast.

>> Um I got an apartment. I I dug a hole, got

in an apartment trying to get my life back together.

I didn't I walked away without nothing from the marriage. Um we had no kids together. I have two ch I have a couple of kids from a previous marriage. Um

and my car broke down and I'm that person. I can't pay my rent this month.

>> Um I don't know how I don't know where to turn or what to do. I'm using the everyday budget.

When I just put like my expenses and everything, it works out okay. But then there's always the other shoe that seems to be dropping and I can't get ahead and catch a break and I just really need like >> advice. I've gone back to work so I have I'm getting a little bit of income that way but I'm just like terrorized. I just feel like >> Well, your whole life is turned upside down completely.

>> I I don't know who to turn to or where to go or what to do.

>> Oh, Ann, I'm so sorry. How long were you guys married?

>> 14 years. >> 14 years. Okay. And I'm trying to write I'm trying to help my daughter raise her two kids and it's just I I feel like I'm

I can't breathe. I'm drowning.

>> Yeah. Well, you're in a I mean a state of grief completely. I mean it's almost like someone has died, right? Is that

feeling. So you are from an emotional standpoint >> um turned inside out which is horrible.

I mean, much less a divorce, but the reasons why of the infidelity and the secrets and the lie. I mean, it just seems to just be piling on. And so, um,

and I've heard Dr. John Zaloney talk about this that, you know, in that case, it's almost like you question yourself like, how did I not know, right? You start to feel like, am I the crazy one?

>> I can't trust myself, right? And so, I just want to free you from all of that.

um that you made you made the exact right decision on what you did and and you still have another quarter to go in

life which is amazing right like you get to now create something totally new and while it's so scary because you would never have even dreamt of of being where you are today um it is the reality and

so it's it is what are you going to do one literally one day at a time is kind of where you're at when I'm hearing you talk and so yes >> um okay so you got nothing in the divorce because there was nothing. Is that basically it?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Correct. >> Is the divorce finalized?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And no. Did you have an attorney?

>> No. >> Why? >> I didn't have I didn't have money to hire one. >> But you should be getting alimony from this, some spousal support, something.

You >> No, I'm not. I'm not entitled to it. The house was in his name because he owned it before the marriage. Was there a >> entitled to that? I did talk with an attorney.

Um but no, >> I just don't see how you're married for 14 years. He's the bread winner and you get zero from this divorce.

>> Yeah. Usually there's alimony until you get remarried if you do. Um and there's no child support because they're not his kids. So there's that's probably not. Um what did the attorney say when you spoke to the attorney?

He said that I could hire the attorney, hire a forensic accountant

>> to go through to prove everything.

>> I mean, >> but at this point, >> that would be expensive. And at this point, and he said that I would, you know, I could spend $10,000 and walk away with nothing.

>> Yeah, which is true. But but I would be curious on the >> I still think his future income needs to play a part in this regardless if he had anything in the bank account. Um, what are you doing now for work and how much do you make?

>> Um, I'm on disability because I have a a

disability and so I get 2,000 from that and then I'm making about $800

in addition to that.

>> And what's your rent every month?

>> 175. >> You're making $800 a week or a month? In addition >> a month. >> Doing what? A month. What are you doing?

A >> part-time substitute teacher.

Okay. And what's the nature of the disability? Is there something where you can't do certain types of work?

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, could you do if you're a substitute teacher that's fairly physical? You got to get up, go there, stand all day. So, I'm wondering, can you do something different that pays more that is more regular and stable?

>> Um, I'm looking. I am. I'm I'm I'm

looking. I've got applications in in a

lot of different places. Um

>> And why can't you pay rent this month if you have the 2,000 in disability plus your 800?

>> I put $700 to get my car repaired. I'm

like I said, when I moved out when I got my place in May, I have been one foot in

the hole the whole time. I've I've

>> But what kind of debt? >> In the hole deeper. >> Yeah. Ann, what kind of debt do you have?

>> I I don't have any.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, when you say in the hole, are you just saying there's emergencies that come up? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you have the car repair 700.

You paid that. What else is on the horizon? >> I'm also helping I'm also helping my daughter raise her two kids. We can't do that right now.

>> We can't do that. Ann, >> you're drowning. You don't have a a life raft to throw at her. Yeah.

Are when you're saying that, are you saying that you're doing that with your time or what does that mean? >> Or money? >> That is I I'm doing it with my time and helping out with food and things like that because they're with me a lot of the time. >> Okay.

So, and I'm telling you, and we can you can get back to I know that's your heart and that's probably where you want to be as a grandmother. I want you to get back to that place. You just can't probably in the next two years. So you need to have a conver and your daughter doesn't want you in this situation like what you're what you're describing to us is you can't even pay your rent.

>> If you get evicted, you have to live with her. >> It's irresponsible. Okay. It's irresponsible to be watching your grandkids right now from a time and money perspective.

It just is. Ann, we can get back to that place cuz I want you to be able to do those things, but right now we have to get you stable financially. Okay.

your your daughter will has to understand that like if I I would assume if you came to her and said I can't pay my rent mom. Okay. So then she she needs to figure out another plan for herself and her kids for the next 24 months.

Like that's what I would say. Um okay.

And so that you have the time and the bandwidth and the money. So Ann, your first things are food, shelter, utilities, transportation. Those are the only things that get paid. Okay. And then beyond that, we have to be upping the income and hopefully [music] with some time bandwidth back um from not being super grandma um that we can start

funding and actually getting and getting some savings, looking at retirement and starting those steps. But if you hold on the line, Ann, Christian's going to pick up. and get you with one of our financial coaches um to to help walk with you through a next couple [music] of steps cuz I know that I mean I I know you you probably just feel like you're in a complete fog because >> [music] >> um yeah it's just horrible horrible where you're at but I know you can get to the other side of this.

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Faith is in Cleveland, Ohio. Up next, Faith, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, my question is, how do I save up for an

upcoming wedding while I'm in baby step 2? Um, my only debt is my car loan.

>> Cool. What's left on the car loan?

>> It's about 29,000.

>> And what do you make?

>> Um, it's 42,000 a year.

>> Perfect. We need to get rid of this car, don't we, Faith?

>> Yes. Um, I've convinced myself that the car is necessary to keep because my

family is very unlucky with cars. We

currently have two cars in our driveway that don't run. And I drove no car. I

borrowed cars for over a year. And then I bought this car I have and it's like fully on warranty and stuff and I'm like, "Cool, I'm good to go now." But now it's also taking up a bigger chunk of my pay and I'm like almost to pay for >> as much as much as you bring home after taxes is what you owe in a car. So we can't do that. Yep.

We got to >> we got to get rid of it.

responsibly with more uh intention and

know what we're looking for and all of those things because I don't want you making a really stupid financial decision on quote unquote we have bad luck. So >> um I voodoo doll like did your family

was there like an ancient king you >> there was like a curse a curse that was put on Faith's family. Faith is like, "Actually, probably yes." [laughter] >> No, I feel that. Okay. What's the wedding going to cost? What are you looking at right now?

>> Um, it's our budget right now is 15. We

do have a family member that has

set aside 5,000 for us.

>> That's nice. Family member that has

>> Huh. >> Does that bring it down to 10?

>> Yes. >> Perfect. >> And what about the fiance?

>> Are you guys going to split this 50/50 or what? Uh, we're going to attempt, I

guess. He currently isn't working right now. He's full-time in flight school trying to cash flow that with >> Okay. >> He's also in the Air Force, so he uses whatever money he makes from that to cash flow his schooling. >> Smart. That's great. >> When does he finish school?

>> He's, if the weather permits, he's supposed to graduate the December after we get married, which we're getting married next September.

>> Okay. So, we still have a year to deal with all this. >> Yes. Okay. >> Um I have tossed around the idea of many times of getting rid of the said car.

>> Yes. >> My fear though is that I'll get a car because I'll be upside down on the Jeep

and I fear that I'll get some cheaper car and it'll immediately break down and then I'll have an expensive repair cuz that's what's happened all these other cars I've had. >> Sure. What How much are you underwater on? What's the car? If you sold it private party, what could you get for it? I I don't I haven't looked that up. I know that I bought it in July for 23 and my loan is 29. >> How did that happen? They sold you a $6,000 warranty.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Here's the good news. You can get the money back from that warranty.

>> Mhm. >> So, you can you can get the majority.

It'll probably be prorated, but you can get that money back. >> Okay. That's good news.

>> So, try that and then see what the car

is actually worth. And if you're underwater by a little bit, you can come up with the savings to cover it. Let's say it's $1,000 that you'll still owe.

Cars worth 22, you owe 23, for example.

>> Was it Did you buy it brand new or was it >> No, it was used. Yeah.

>> Cuz Jeeps don't have the best resale value. >> Yeah. What What What's the model of it?

>> It's a Wrangler. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, the only reliable car you could find was a Jeep Wrangler. Everything else was a crapshoot.

>> Can we just commit that Faith just wanted a newer Jeep Wrangler?

>> Oh, yeah. For sure. [laughter] My love.

It feels so much better. >> If it was like a Honda Accord, we'd be like, "Yes, we got it." >> A Jeep Wrangler has I want this energy,

>> you know? >> So, >> Faith wants that vibe.

>> The good news is we can get you a reliable car that's $14,000. That's not

going to be riddled with repairs. And here's what you need to do. Research the make, model, year. Look up what the common recalls are, common repairs are.

And then pay for a pre-purchase inspection from a mechanic that you trust. It's going to cost you maybe 100 150 bucks, but that's going to give you the peace of mind that you're not buying a lemon. And so this bad luck was really just impulsive car purchases out of desperation when we didn't do the research to make sure we weren't buying a lemon. So I want to encourage you that you can break the cycle just by pausing and being a little bit intentional.

>> Okay. >> So what you could do, Faith, is again you you probably are underwater on it a little bit. Probably not a ton because it's used and it's only been since July.

Is that what you said? July. Yeah.

>> So, I mean, you may be able to get I don't know, private sale. You might be able to or I guess if you get the warranty back, do can they do you got to go back to the dealer ship?

>> Yeah. I'm wondering how would that work?

>> I also work at the dealer I bought it at. >> Well, that makes this real. >> Would they take it back for what you bought it for?

>> Or maybe a little bit less.

>> I mean, maybe. If it's your employer, I would hope you tell them, "Hey, I can't afford this." >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Which is so I mean, I hate to say it, Faith, there's like all these Instagram videos of people that work at car dealerships and they're like bragging about >> their car payments, how broke they are.

>> Yeah. All of it. Um, so yeah, you'll be kind of an uphill battle there a little bit, but so worth the conversation cuz yeah, if it can just be a flat like >> Do they sell $14,000 cars at this dealership? >> I'm just curious.

Faith doesn't have $14,000. I mean, do you have any do you have any money? Do you have any money saved? I only have my $1,000 starter emergency fund.

>> Okay. So, you get out of this, you free up the payment, which is how much? The payment plus the insurance.

>> Okay. So, you at least free that up. If you just put that in a savings account for a year, that's 6,000 bucks.

>> Well over that. >> Yeah. That's without having a car, though. >> Could you get a loan from your credit union to cover the difference plus some for a little bit? Like it's gonna be it's not going to be a super nice car compared to what you're driving now, but it'll get you from A to B until the wedding at least.

>> Uh, okay. I guess I could throw this in there. I could probably do that. But my fiance also has two very old trucks that both still run. >> Yay. Ding, ding, ding. Faith is now a truck driver. One of them.

>> She is driving a truck.

>> It's great. Do it. Do it. This is like

the biggest ego play though for most people is the car to go from what you're going to to an old truck. You're like, "Oh golly, it's gonna it's going to be a

ego play." But I'm telling you, Faith, when that money is freed up, you save it. You get a side hustle. Cuz I think I think you and I think even though your fiance's in flight school, I think at night he could drive you like you guys could save up $2 to $3,000 a month and

easily fund this wedding really quick.

And I would just keep going until you're married. And you guys start off marriage debtree. Start off marriage with actually a couple of thousand dollars or more above the wedding that when it's all said and done, you guys have some money to start out your emergency funds with. >> And and yeah, you guys are on like a really great path financially. It's just putting the ego aside for a bit. Just one year. >> That's what it is. And >> you deserve a Jeep Wrangler faith, but you deserve to be debtree even more.

>> Yeah. And so one day >> third Jeep and I'm like >> it's your third Jeep and you've had bad luck with the other two Jeeps and you decided well it's not the >> Jeep. Faith is not a Jeep. This is not

your identity. Faith just say that over and over again. This is not because when you get in that truck you're like I am not a truck. This is >> you got to get rid of the rubber ducks if you're going to drive that truck.

That's going to hurt. You can't do the Jeep Wave anymore. >> Oh yeah, that's true. You'll get back there though.

I think it's a good goal. But I want you to do it the wise way. I mean honestly making $42,000 a year before taxes. what you bring home is close to what you owe on this car.

What's your interest rate on this?

>> Uh, 7%.

>> That's not true. >> I'm just shocked the dealership lets you do this. Like, the debt to income ratio just hurts my soul.

>> Who's the Do you know the salesperson?

Well, >> can you talk to them? >> Yeah, it's probably Faith.

>> Faith is the sales. >> I don't know.

>> Yeah. Well, I will. Yeah, I would. And again, it's going to take a lot of humility to go in there, but it is worth it. How old are you guys, Faith?

>> Um, I'm actually going to be 25 on Thanksgiving Day. >> Okay. Coming up is 24.

>> Awesome. Yeah. If you guys can start getting these habits in place and you can start actually living this out, and I'm talking about the the humility, like putting the what I want and what feels good and what feels normal aside, and you start living in a little bit of this discomfort. I'm telling you that discomfort is going to cause you guys to persevere in life.

Like when we just live comfortably 24/7 and that's what debt helps you do. Y >> I want it and I'm going to just live there.

of perseverance and grit. We just kind

of sit in what feels right and then we get screwed financially. So let's be smart. Faith that when you guys can get this this young, I'm telling you, y'all can be multi-millionaires when you start investing. You start living on less than you make. Like it is insane what you guys can do, especially when debt is not in the picture.

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[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Open phones at88255225.

Are you staying on track with the baby steps? We've got a quick quiz to check your progress and get a personalized plan. Simply head to the show notes, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps, and complete the quiz?" Drew is in Kansas City up next. What's going on, Drew?

>> Hey, so I really want to get an electric

bike. Uh, but I still live at home at 28

with my wife.

>> Whoa. What happened?

>> Uh, nothing really. We just got married a couple of months ago. Uh we were looking at getting a home prior to the marriage but decided to hold off due to the uh interest rates and my parents offered for us to stay with them to save some extra money.

>> Okay. How much are you saving currently per month by living with them? Like what's actually going into a savings account? >> So 3,000 a month is going into the savings account and then I have uh other money being set aside into like an employee stock purchase program.

>> Do you have any debt?

>> No debt. Two cars paid off. 2020 Camry,

2009 Mazda 6.

>> Good for you guys. What do you What do you guys make a year?

>> Uh, combined a little bit over $100,000.

>> And Drew, why aren't you all renting somewhere?

>> Uh, we just wanted to be able to buy a house and not pour more money.

>> You'd rather live with your parents than not rent.

>> I'm sorry. >> The situation is not bad at all. The down is like newlyweds. Nothing in me.

to be in the [laughter] house with parents or in-laws for an extended period of time. Do we agree?

>> Are there some codependency issues going on here, Drew?

>> I don't believe so. No, we're just trying to save as much money as we can.

>> Okay, I know, Drew, but do you I mean, is there any like is there any part of like the dignity in y'all that are like, I just want to get up in the morning and make cereal and not open the refrigerator and look at the milk and like there's my my mom in the kitchen making eggs in a robe. Like, >> do you know what I'm saying? Like, y'all are married. Not ideal. >> What does your How does your wife feel about this?

>> Um, she actually doesn't mind it. We have a great relationship with my family. >> Okay. But you can have a great relationship with your family and also not live with them. >> Be adults and and and you called about an electric bike, Drew. Like, >> you have a vehicle. >> You got to have fun while you're young. >> Okay. Yeah. [laughter] >> But you can't tell me you're doing all this cuz you really want to be a homeowner and then we're blowing money on toys.

>> That's a valid point. >> How old are you, too?

28. >> Okay, let's play this out. What What would a onebedroom cost in in the area?

>> Uh, $1,1200.

>> So, I just imagine you I'm so sorry. Can we just be honest? Like, I love you guys. Like, if we were out having a beer, I think we would really get along.

I just can't imagine Drew R and your electric bike pulling into your parents' driveway. Honey, >> no. Mom, I'm home. I'm home from my

electric bike ride around the neighborhood. Like, Drew, you're a man.

You're a man. Like, you you got this.

Like, you got to like come on. Come on.

Anything. Anything. Nothing. All right.

Okay. >> I mean, does that not kind of make you laugh? >> We have a large sum of money saved up.

>> So, go rent an apartment.

>> How much money do you guys have saved currently? >> So, right now, we have about $60,000.

What's the goal? What's What is the number? What's the number before you go, "All right, mom. I'm out.

Uh the goal is just to move out at the beginning of next year. So we're planning on saving 3,000 a month until then um while we look at a house and then find that and move out.

>> Okay. What's the What's an electric bike cost these days?

>> Uh it's $4,000. It's like a dirt bike, but it's electric.

>> Dude, the motocross dreams need to go

for now. Like we need to we need to put $4,000 towards our deposit for our apartment. >> You can afford both, Drew. Like buy the bike and move out. Like you can do both.

>> How about this? If you buy the bike, can we force you to move out tomorrow?

>> I feel like that's a fair deal.

>> Yes, that's fair. >> Congratulations. You're the owner. >> I think that's it. I think that's it. Drew, you can buy the bike, but you have to move out of your parents house. And I mean, please. I'm telling you.

>> Real question though. Does she fold the laundry? >> She does not fold the laundry. I do all the laundry. >> Proud of you. That's our boy. [laughter] That's our boy.

Drew, it's just good for y'all. You just you y'all need to spread your wings.

You're you're leave and cleave. Y'all got to figure out how to pay the bills and get the water turned on in the new apartment. Like, y'all need to be self-sufficient. >> Yeah. Jumping from living with mom to being a homeowner is just too big of a gap. It's going to be a rude awakening.

>> Well, yeah. Well, and I guess it I think I would feel a little bit better about it if y'all were like, "We're $300,000 in student loan debt and we're both lawyers and we're about to get our law." I don't know. Like, if there was some like big reason, but there's there's not even that. It's just to quote unquote save money. And and I think your dignity is more than that. I mean, genuinely, you and your wife together, I think you just learn a lot when you are not sharing a wall with your parents.

>> It's [laughter] true. Yes. Yeah. We both have lived alone before and with roommates.

So, it's not like it's our first time, you know, spreading our wings and flying. But, >> well, it will be as a couple. It is as a couple and y'all are going to now have to share a bathroom and you're going to have to like Yeah, I mean you Yeah, you guys are It's a different situation than the dudes >> living in the rental house together. So, no, it's your wife and Yeah, y'all will y'all will run into things that you're not running into relationally when you are out on your own, which is a good thing.

It's how it should be. It's how it should be. So, um, yeah, Drew, get the bike and and and apply for an apartment this afternoon >> and fly away on that bike to your new apartment. >> Make sure they have ebike parking at the new apartment.

Where are you going to park that thing? You got to store it. This might be a nightmare. [laughter] >> I don't know the visual. I just can't.

>> There it is. >> Into the driveway. >> Right into the driveway. >> I'm home. Home, man.

>> I love this so much. Y'all, y'all are awesome though and you've been very smart financially. I will give y'all that. Y'all have a lot of money. You're debtree. >> Y'all are very capable people. I think that's what's driving me crazy about it is you're so capable. >> If it slows you down 6 months to buy a house, I'm okay with that for the sake of your dignity. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. I know.

>> All right. Nick is in Kansas City as well. Maybe Nick knows Drew. What's going on there? >> They can ride bikes together. >> They're in cahoots. [laughter] >> Not much. Um I do not know Drew. Sorry

to say. He sounds like a great guy. >> I'll connect [laughter] you.

>> So my question is is my wife and I are recently called in to do some missions work. >> Cool. >> And we are in the waiting period between

the call and going. [snorts] Now God hasn't given us a timeline as to when that call is, but some financial stuff has been brought to my mind um as I'm kind of processing this call. So, um,

I've worked with one of your Ramsy Pros as far as real estate goes, and I know the value of your house to sell, but we also have some student loans and some other debt as well. My question is,

should we sell the house knowing that we are leaving the country to be called emissions and live in a renters's market

knowing full well that the rent that the rent we will pay is two to three times what we are uh paying for our mortgage

right now or do we continue to attack

our debt aggressively as we have been doing for years and um wait to pay off the rest of that debt. when we sell the house and leave.

>> How I'm confused. If you're doing mission work, are you how much are you getting paid for that?

[sighs] >> So, I am here's the thing. If I am a disabled veteran as well, um I'm sitting at 90% right now, which is around uh 2820, the

country that we are called to. This is more than five times the median income for a family our size to be able to live

in the country. >> What you will make on disability, you guys can cover your cost living.

>> Oh, yeah. Okay. That's great.

>> I was just confused. You said we're still going to aggressively tackle our debt. I've just never heard of a missionary being able to do that. >> Well, before they're not they're not on the field now. So, today what they do?

>> No, we're not on the field yet. >> And when and do you know timeline when you will?

>> No, we don't. Okay. I would just stay in the home, Nick. I would stay actually you could sell the house to Drew cuz he's looking for a house. But no, I would I would stay in the house aggressively paying off your debt and then when you guys are in a position to move and start the missions, I would put the house for sale. Do you guys have family in the area?

>> Uh we have my wife's parents, but the the relationship's kind of strained.

>> Okay. I was going to say because if you guys go, you're going to have to sell this house kind of long distance. You'll just need a great realer >> and then when you sell the house, the equity of the house, you could pay off the remaining debt. But I would stay in the house, continue to aggressively pay off debt. Yeah, I would do that. I would just stay in the house, aggressively pay off debt, and then when you guys move, sell the house. Even if it's kind of a long-distance purchase, I would do that.

>> I like that plan. I wouldn't hang on to it while living across the world long term.

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All right, Renee is in Miami up next.

What's going on, Renee?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. And uh we are um struggling right

now with deciding if my daughter is going to go to graduate school or not and if the ROI on um you know the fees

and the cost of graduate school is going to benefit her.

>> Very nice. What's she studying?

>> She is studying uh business and entrepreneurship. She's um a great student. She went to a very expensive uh

four years of undergrad that was um all covered with merit scholarships. So, we have that in the pocket. Yeah.

>> Great. Golly, >> she's doing amazing. >> Yeah, that's so awesome. >> So, why the grad degree?

>> Um, she's really liking the classes.

She, you know, to be completely honest, she doesn't have anything lined up yet as far as work goes. Um, so I think it's kind of weighing on her. And I know how early it is. I I have another child that already went through all this, so it's very early. She shouldn't be worried. But I think this is kind of her secondary plan and we're trying to, you

know, we're just trying to weigh the benefits here if this is what she I think she really wants to go. She loves school. She loves >> I'm sure she does. I'd rather go to school than enter the real world, right? I mean, it's >> I'd rather [laughter] kick the cane down the road. Applying for jobs is a real buzzkill. >> That's right. I'd like to go back if I could. >> So, who has the money to pay for grad school? >> So, that will be on her.

>> And how is she going to pay for it with no job? Is is she scholarship? I mean, she's smart, obviously. Is there any programs? >> Yeah, she did get a a merit scholarship for school. Um, which was a surprise. We

didn't know that was coming. Just that just happened this week. We think it's going to be it's a one-year. It's a 10-month program. She's already got a couple classes under her belt for it. So, it's only going to be 10 months. >> Okay. >> They're looking at about 75,000 for the whole thing for the whole year. She got

30 in scholarship. So I can probably

help her with 10. We're we're probably looking at around 30,000.

>> Who's we?

>> Well, as in student loan debt.

>> Me and her. Her and I. Yeah. And student loan debt for the grad program.

She doesn't have any debt >> for any Yeah. She doesn't have any debt for anything undergrad or anything else in their life. >> For someone who loves business, this would be a terrible business plan if I walked into the bank. Hey, listen.

I can't get a job in business after I went to school for four years. I need $30,000 to study more business. I think that's the problem. >> I know.

I know.

rather her take $30,000 and go to Europe and experience culture than go to another year of grad school to hope that a job appears.

>> No. >> What is at the heart of her loving business and entrepreneurship? Does she want to start a business?

>> Yes, she's in the process. So, she really thinks >> why not invest money into the business she wants to start?

Yeah, >> I'd rather you take your 10,000.

>> It's a $30,000 kick the can down the road for 10 months and then what's going to happen, Renee? She's gonna have to apply for jobs 10. I mean, it's a 10 month later. Again, I feel like if not that I might not my answer wouldn't change on the student loan portion, but there's a part of me that's like, okay, a three-year thing, whatever.

You get all these certifica, you get this one thing and it kind of narrows down a path and it gets you like this is just 10 months. Like you could no >> have a grow a baby and have a human in that amount of time. Like do you know what I'm saying? Like it's not that long.

It's very short. So her the same problem and it's her that's going to follow her 10 months later. She's not changing. So to go $30,000 to basically be the same person and have the same problem.

No thank you.

with the fear and the problem of not being able to find a job than go and have that fear and problem not having a job and be $30,000 in debt.

>> I know she's averaging it out in her mind that the undergrad was around 375,000 worth if >> Holy crap. Well, then take that knowledge and go get a job.

>> I'm sorry, but if you can't get a job after all that, then what's the point of anything? I know. >> What did she learn over four years?

>> So, it it's a it's a common thing we see

in this in that um you don't know what

to do next. So, you just go to school and then you make really bad financial decisions and it takes years to get out of this and it's not worth it. That is not worth it because nothing is really going to change in 10 months. >> If she loves textbooks and homework, let's go ahead and buy her a textbook.

But we don't need to go $30,000 in debt to do it. That's the truth. >> Seriously, Rene. She needs to talk to real entrepreneurs and they'll tell you uh you don't need an entrepreneurship degree.

You need tenacity. You need to have a good idea. You need to know how to serve people well to create something called revenue. And so she needs to sink her teeth into that.

So if you want to honestly give your 10 grand to invest in her business idea and you become the bank and you're like, "Hey, I'm willing to invest in this idea because I believe in it." She needs to come up with a business plan >> or even help support her for a few months while she goes and interns somewhere, right? and doesn't get paid, help her there. And then six months later, it's like, okay, now she does have to apply, but now she at least has >> on her resume that actually real business leaders and people actually look at, which is experience, which looks better than a 10-month program.

I mean, honestly, if she if they knew that she was working in a field in that business and being able to plug in, like that to me, >> well, she's going to become what they call overqualified because they're going to go, "Listen, you you have an MBA and you have no job experience. We can't hire you." >> That's my fear. And so, I would rather her go do something, get some experience. Maybe she tries to start her own thing, maybe she ends up being, you know, an executive at a company somewhere.

I don't know. But I just know grad school is not the next step she needs to take. And again, if she had a full ride scholarship and that's what she chose to do, >> that's I mean, to me, that's a different story.

No financial sense to go $30,000 in the hole to to deal with the exact same problem she's going to deal with. And to your point at the very beginning of this call, Renee, which was so wise, you said it. She still has time. I know this is really early because it's not till May. I mean, >> yes. >> Right. >> By the time Oh my gosh.

>> Is she living with you? >> Yeah. >> Um Well, no. She's been, you know, in another state for the last four years.

She's an athlete, too. So, she's got to be up there year round. >> Good for her. [laughter] She sounds awesome. Like, she really does. I just don't want this decision to put her back financially for three to three years, you know, is what it could be.

>> Um, so I think as your as her mom, I think you're really wise and I think you can keep encouraging her to apply. And what's causing it is it sounds like it's more running away from reality because of fear than, oh, I actually really love

this one program and I can't, you know what I mean? Well, I know she loves school, so maybe she does love it, but >> maybe she should work at a school. She loves school so much. >> Yeah, she could get a job at a university.

>> Yeah, she could work at the school for a year and see what they'll pay her. >> Yeah, I don't know if that's what what's driving her. I think it's a little bit of everything. She's just trying to figure it out.

She her brother's got his NBA, you know, so she's like, you know, there's a lot of other little factors there. >> She sounds competitive, too. >> But I do agree. >> Yeah.

Yep. Yep. Yep.

>> She gets that from her mom. [laughter]

>> Probably. >> Well, you raised a great daughter. I'm glad you're calling in with this question. I hope you can convince her.

Do you think she'll be convinced to avoid this? >> Well, because you're not going to you're not signing anything, Renee, as her mom.

>> Do not cosign. If she does this on her own valition, we can't stop her. She's an adult. But I hope that you have influence over her life.

>> Right. I do. And that's exactly it.

We're we're we're right there on that balance beam. And um you know, I think she'd be fine without it. I really do.

So, I'm I'm hoping we can you know, we can just decide to to start working

start working on something else.

>> Work is scary. >> I think that's the smart thing. >> That's a tough one. Especially in this job market. It's not a job market where you just leave college and everyone's knocking on your door to hire you.

>> No. No. It's it takes a lot and you and it's and a lot of who you know Ken Coleman talks about this a lot. Yes.

>> Um who you know the connections mean all of that is a is really big >> matters more than the piece of paper and where you went to school >> and you can't just apply online and they just look at resumes. You usually have to get your foot in the door another way. So [music] it does take some creativity for sure. But she sounds smart. I think she could do it.

>> I hope we we uh talked her off the ledge of grad school for the sake of grad school. If we did that we did one good deed for the day today. Rachel, thank you. >> That puts this hour of the Ramsay Show in the books.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz. Open phones at88255225.

Ashley is in Idaho. Up next, what's going on, Ashley?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, I have a question. I have a daughter

that just turned 21 and she has a horse

and we her parents pay the $400 a month

in boarding.

>> Her gas car George and horses are not a

good >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Keep going, Ashley. I'm preparing your heart. >> This is this is her her life. She's been riding horses since she's been six years old. Um, and

we pay for her insurance, her gas for her car, everything. And we're kind of wondering not to be so mean and tell her, "Hey,

you need to kind of start contributing." Now, the backstory about this is we don't want to be too hard on her because couple years ago, she went through depression. Pardon me, I'm going to start crying. Um, start cutting, self cutting, self harming. >> Oh my goodness. >> Was very, very depressed. Um, >> yeah. So, you want to be sensitive. That makes sense. >> Literally, literally. Yeah. Literally had a plan for suicide.

>> So, this I'm so sorry.

>> Did she get some help? >> The Yeah, she's she's in therapy now.

She hasn't cut in probably 2 years. It was one of those when she was like 15 through 16 just trying to find out who she was >> and confused. And so, we we kind of almost walk on eggshells. >> Yeah.

I say you have PTSD around it probably. I mean, you know, as a parent, you're just like, I don't want to do anything. I mean, we don't want >> Right. >> Exactly.

Yeah.

She's going to be making a lot. >> Did she go to school? What happened after high school for her?

>> Um, she does not go to college. She basically helps give lessons at the barn

with the ma main trainer.

>> How much does she make? >> We never She doesn't make a lot. Um, I

don't know. a couple hundred a month and then she just got a job >> um a second job.

>> Okay. >> And now she should be bringing home close to a thousand a month.

>> So we really feel like she should >> Yeah. >> pay for some of her own. I mean >> what I'm trying to think of like 5 years from now, are we still doing this? Is she still making $1,000 a month at 25 years old >> living with mom and dad? Cuz otherwise we need a totally different plan. Well, we just need a trajectory and it can be baby steps, Ashley, because I totally get your caution around it. Um, because

of your history and what you guys walk through as a family, like that's that's horrible. It's a every parent's worst nightmare, right, of of something like that happening. So, so I can I can totally >> um understand that, but I also think it's two different things. I think helping her become an adult >> is not being mean.

I think it's actually the most loving thing you can do because it actually is going to give her self-confidence. It's going to give her some dignity. It's going to give her a reason to wake up in the morning and be productive. And like these things are good for all of us, right?

We were created to work and to and to make and to be part of society.

how that looks and how that plays out over time, you know, we can talk about, but but that in general, that principle, that's not harmful to her. If anything, that's actually a a gift. And again, if you do it in the right way, right, you we want to be cautious in the sense of like how you handle it with her, and I totally understand that. But but but that avenue is the best thing for her in

general as an adult. So, just hear that.

That's a loving thing. That's not a that's not a mean thing. How do you how do you approach like going about it considering we feel like she's been spoiled her whole life? You know, >> I would start with you guys. Don't make it about her. Say on gas.

>> Say, "Hey, we we really love you and part of that love has caused maybe some enabling. We've covered your expenses.

We wanted to give you a great life. But part of becoming independent means you need to learn how to handle money and contribute on your own. And we're not going to throw you in the deep end. We're not going to say you need to pay all these expenses tomorrow.

But you need to start taking on more responsibility so that you're not 30 years old still not not unsure how to live as an adult >> cuz that's unfair to her. >> Yeah. I like that approach actually.

chose this you know what I mean like this is what you guys implemented. Um, and so I think on that end talking to her of, hey, I I'm sorry that we have

failed you in a sense of how to >> set up your life as an adult. And again, she's 21, so I think there's a lot of grace here. She's not 31, right? If we're talking, I mean, like you you guys have not screwed up as parents by by any means. But I think it is a hey, we want

in the next season, maybe over the next 6 months, we want to start working with you on finding some more income, finding

a schedule that that you know is sufficient as an adult, you know, an 8 to whatever it looks like. >> Um, and then the money you're bringing in, we want to write down a budget and have some things that you're going to start contributing. And again, that can be slowly over time, every two months or something, you know, you add something else in or whatever that looks like. And then eventually a plan Ashley and again I'm not in a rush with this.

apartment >> and we will be with you know every step

of the way in these transitions but starting to make a a year plan I think is really great from November to November. What does that look like? >> Yeah. um from a >> she has a 17-year-old brother and now he's kind of he he's a little bit more of a small number than her but for instance he wanted this winter baseball fan. It was 150 and I feel we have to

give it to him because look we're we're doing your giving your your sister 400 a month for her horse. So yeah, we have to say yes to you now for certain things too. Uh, I wouldn't I wouldn't do the quick I wouldn't do the the tit fortat thing, but I think brother is 17, so he needs a student checking account with a debit card and you guys can put a certain amount of money in that account and he needs to start budgeting his life >> and that he needs to start >> He does. He does.

>> Okay, perfect. That's great. That's a great start. >> Does he have a part-time job?

>> Yeah. >> Uh, yes, he does. He's He's a very hard They're both very very hard worker.

let's find two things that you're going to start paying for cuz we want her to start experiencing real life and it can

still be under your roof for a period of time, which again is a soft place to land, which is great. >> Um, but when she starts to learn these things, then when she goes out on her own, she it's part of who she is. It's how she knows how to do it, right? That's equipping her >> really well, right? How does the horse situation work? If you guys stop making these payments, >> what happens?

>> Are you leasing the horse from someone else? >> No. Um, she bought it. She actually watched mama give birth to her the people at the bar and her family. >> That's a bonding experience right there.

>> Yeah. Like the the expenses for the horse just to keep the horse in good shape is 400 bucks.

>> Well, it's at the barn. All her friends are at the barn and that's that's boarding. Boarding feed. I mean, she works there, too.

>> They should give her a discount. >> Her life. >> They should give her a discount. I know, but her life can't be that forever, Ashley. You know what I'm saying? Some at some point she's going to have to say, "Wow, that makes me really sad. I can't be where all my friends are. I'm going to have to go get a job, right?" Like eventually, that's what's going to >> She does. She does. She just got another um job. >> She needs a full-time job that can support all of the expenses in her life.

That's where we need to get to. >> That's the goal. That's the goal. Otherwise, she needs to go to school and pursue something that can actually pay the bills. So, that's the hard truth that you're going to have to unravel with her over the next several months.

But this idea that we're just going to work part-time at the at the barn, not making enough to even cover the expenses for our horse is not a winning plan.

There's only two types of horse people.

Broke horse people and super wealthy people. And she's about to be a broke horse person for the rest of her life if we don't change this ASAP.

Heat.

[music]

Heat.

All right, [music] let's get to our question of the day. It's brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like the end of the road. But Yrefi helps you find a way forward with a low fixed rate payment plan that fits your life. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey to learn more. That's the letter yfy.comy.

Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Ethan in Ohio. I'm in my mid20s and recently became engaged. My fiance has over $100,000 in student loan debt and since we have lived together for the past year, most of our expenses are joint. My salary is roughly a h 100,000 while hers is 80. I have no debt. So, this $100,000 debt is

the biggest obstacle to building long-term wealth. I also roughly have $100,000 in non-retirement investments.

Should I set aside a percentage of my income to pay off her loans or is it a better option to sell those investments and pay them off? >> Oo, >> good question. >> Well, here's the thing. He's going to be he's going to be upset paying like selling off his investments to pay off her debt. That's going to sting a little bit cuz he worked really hard to invest all this money and have it grow and now it's just wiped away.

Uh, but that's what I would do if you're combining all if you just clear the deck and go, "Okay, now we make $180,000. We have $100,000 in debt, >> and then what do we have on the plus side?" Well, we have $100,000 in >> Yeah. >> investments we could sell. >> That's right.

I mean, at that point, your when you get married, your net worth is combined, you know, and it's like, okay, well, as a household now, we are a negative >> plus 100 minus 100, you're at zero, >> right? So, what do we Yep. So what's the what's the best way to uh go about that and it is to pay off the debt but like you said it stings you know we talk about couples that you become one when you get married and her issues are your issues and your issues are her issues that's financial and otherwise.

Um, but it doesn't come without emotion and it hurting a little bit, but that means that you guys together make $180,000. So, you can build it back so fast, you know? So, that's the good news. >> You can get back there so quickly >> is you have a dual income.

Compound growth will do its thing and one day you'll be multi multi-millionaires looking back at that going, "Oh, yeah. I remember that day.

>> I remember that day." But we did it. But we did it. >> I don't think you'll regret paying off the student loan debt. Uh, now you could try to attack it and keep your investments, but you're just that's going to be a different sacrifice on this side.

So, you just got to choose your hard in this case. And I personally, if you got non-retirement assets, I would just sell it. You'll have some capital gains potentially. Make sure you account for that, but then knock out the debt ASAP.

Thanks for the question, Ethan.

Jordan, what's going on?

>> Hey guys, honor to speak with you today.

Um, I can dive right in. Um, at the beginning of this year, uh, my wife and I were transferred an energy stock about

200 shares. It's valued between 16 and $18,000 depending on what month you look at it. And, uh, wondering how I can best use it to progress through the baby steps. >> Awesome. What baby step are you guys on?

>> We are over the halfway point of baby step to. We've been really going at it this year. Um, so we we have about $40,000 in student loan debt left.

>> Good for you guys. That's great. Yeah.

Do you know how much you'll owe if you sell the stock?

>> I want to say I would need to set around

$2,000 aside to to cover the taxes.

>> Perfect. So, you got about 14 that you could net from this to throw at your debt. What's left? >> 16. See, that's glass half empty. You said between >> He said 16. >> 18. I put 18. [laughter] >> That's Mrs. Optimism.

>> Okay. But you'll Yeah, but you'll have 14 to 16,000 left.

>> Sure. >> To throw out the debt. Yeah. And what's left on the balance?

>> On the balance of the debt? >> Yeah. >> 40,000. >> We Yeah, we owe about $40,000 left in student loans. >> Um, how much do you guys make a year?

>> Our household gross is about $148,000.

>> Oh, awesome. Okay, great.

>> So, this debt's going to be gone fast no matter what. This the selling of the stock just kind of helps expedite that.

>> That's kind of how I'm looking at it. maybe, you know, I can use this to progress faster through one of the next baby steps, whether it's two or three, you know, u just trying to find the best way because it it is an energy stock, so I've kind of seen it, you know, go up and go down.

off in our debt, or is it best to just use that and set it aside as our uh down payment for a house or our emergency fund? Um, considering its value,

>> I would still do what exactly what we said and I'd sell it today cuz we just don't know what the future holds. And you're going to be heartbroken if the stock suddenly takes a dip and you go, "Oh my gosh, now it's only 10,000. What do we do now? Do we keep waiting? Do we keep waiting? We try to time the market." So, I don't do single stocks for that reason. I just already have too much anxiety about other things in life.

So, I stick to mutual funds and index funds, giant groups of stocks. And likely that energy stock, if it's any good, is probably, you know, somewhere in the mix. It's just not all your eggs in one basket. >> Yeah. Um, how much extra a month, Jordan, do you guys have going towards paying off debt?

>> We set aside in total about $3,000 a

month. Um, and put that toward debt. I think our minimum payments right now add up to about $500. Honestly, I hardly pay attention to the minimum payments anymore.

I just throw whatever I can at it. So, um, but yeah, about a little over a third of our takehome goes toward our debt. >> That's great. Yeah, it' be about more eight more months if you guys just threw, you know, all of this at the debt.

Um, which is I mean, gosh, that's what June by summer, y'all. And then >> debtree by summer. >> And then keep that keep that momentum of that 3,000 going into an emergency fund, you know, and by this time next year, you guys could be on to baby step four and start back investing, which is really exciting. So, to George's point, yeah, that would be fantastic.

Yeah, the single stock regardless even if you didn't have debt and you're like, I have the single stock. We'd probably say go ahead and cash it out and move it into an index fund anyways. Um, so I would get I would get rid of it regardless of your situation, but it's even better that when you get rid of it, you can actually apply it to your life today and get you guys jump started, which will probably be a breath of fresh air because you guys have been grinding to get out of debt. So, it kind of feels nice to get a big jump start, >> just skip a few levels.

How many uh debts would you knock out if you threw 14,000 at it?

>> 14,000. So, it's the the student loan debt. We actually just paid off my wife's student loan debt last week, which was awesome. So, it's just my student loan debt.

Half of it is federal and half of it is private and the 14 to 16 would would likely uh knock out the rest of my private student loans. So, we would be down to just my federal. >> Oh, that's awesome. >> Well, then it frees up some payments to apply to the next ones.

>> That's great. Okay, let's get to Sarah in Denver. What's going on, Sarah?

>> Hi there. Um, I am My main question is,

so I owe about 15,000 on my car loan

currently. Um, and my husband and I, uh,

we've been, you know, patting our, um, emergency fund. Um, so we have about 16,000 in our emergency fund right now.

Um, we actually just found out that we are now expecting. Um, that was just last night. Oh my gosh. Well, early

congratulations, Sarah. Are we the first to know? >> Thank you. [clears throat] Um, you guys are the second to know. >> Oh, I knew we were probably high up on the list. >> That's a win. >> Thanks. Thanks for letting us in there.

[laughter] >> Absolutely. Um, >> you and so you have the money saved to pay off the car, but you guys just found out you're pregnant, and so I'm assuming you're probably a little nervous to do that. >> I'm super nervous. Um, I'm actually really terrified to, you know, just throw it at that debt. Um, my vehicle is not the only one that we have. Um, my husband currently has a truck also. Um, so we're paying his down as well. I think he owes about 25 on it. Um, but

we're throwing all that we can at the debt right now. Um, I'm just wondering, do I use my emergency savings? Um, or do

I just continue making the minimum payments and then just throw whatever extra I can. >> Um, how much do you guys make a year?

Um, combined we make about 120.

>> 120. Okay. >> What's the payment on your car?

>> Uh, 3.82.

>> Okay. So, you'll free up about 400 bucks, >> which is, you know, that's five grand right there if you just pay it off a year from now. You have five grand in that account and you make 120. So, the question is, could you guys pay off both cars and have a fully funded emergency fund by the time baby's here?

>> Um, I mean, I think so. Um, as of right now, it is, um, our due date is expected in July. >> Okay. I'd start crunching some numbers.

If you want to pause, we call it stork mode where you kind of pause the baby steps to stack up cash if you don't have any. But, >> but you guys have the cash. >> But if you have the cash already, now we're just going to attack the debt. Then you're kind of already there.

So, I would also look at your health insurance, look at your out-of- pocket max, your deductibles, get a full picture of what it would really cost if you had to like go all in on the medical stuff. And that'll give you a little bit of peace in the chaos. But congratulations. How >> you appreciate it.

>> Yeah, we're rooting for you guys. And maybe he sells the truck. If you want to expedite this, you got a baby on the way. Let's speed things up.

Life is happening.

[music]

>> [music] >> Everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck and agents who know their stuff. With a Ramsy trusted insurance pro, you'll never have to deal with sleazy businesses or slimy salespeople because they're all interviewed, vetted, and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interests at heart. So go to ramseyolutions.com/co to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. James is in Manchester, New Hampshire up next.

>> Hi, taking my call. >> Sure. How can Rachel and I help?

>> All right. So, so I'm 19 years old. I currently make about $150,000 a year. Um

I have $60,000 saved, 20,000 of which is invested into retirement accounts. Um but my question is today is that I'm interested in buying a house or a multif family unit next year. But but I'm honestly not sure if that's what's recommended to me since I'm so young. I see on other Dave Ramsey videos it's 5050 split between whether they're okay with younger people. What do you do for work to make 150,000 at 19?

>> Uh, so this is honestly, you can't believe it, but I'm a I'm a casino dealer, so I deal high stakes blackjack and high stakes poker games for a living

>> myself. I keep all my tips.

>> No, I a dealer >> in Manchester, New Hampshire.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Well done. >> I was unaware that there was a big casino uh ring over in New Hampshire.

>> All right. Yeah, it's um >> how stable is this?

>> Like, is this what you want to do long term?

>> So, that that's one thing. Um it's it's

stable in that I'm basically guaranteed $100,000 a year, but my income uh like

monthtomonth varies quite a bit, but uh for the most part, yeah, this is what I want to do for a career.

>> For the most part. Okay. So, you see yourself, you're 35 years old, you're dealing at a casino.

Well, hopefully I'll be financially well off enough to um be doing what I want by

the time I'm 35. >> That's that's my question is what is the thing you want? Because I want to make sure that this money shouldn't be used to fund education or an investment in a business before we just lock it up in a home just because you you feel like a home is the next step.

>> Honestly, I am very passionate about it.

Um and I really haven't ever thought about going to school thanks in particular. Okay, there's nothing wrong with renting. There's nothing that says in this situation where I'm going, "Wow, you really should get a house. You're 19 and you got money." I would just pause and get a house when it makes sense for you cuz you're renting right now on your own or what? Or living at home?

>> I'm I'm blessed enough to be living at home still. >> Okay. So, you got no expenses. There's nothing wrong with just stacking cash, live at home for now.

And then once you're kind of out of that uh this phase where you kind of know that you know and you're you know 21 maybe then we go okay I'm going to go rent on my own. I've got $300,000. >> You think making 150 a year you should still stay at home. >> You could go rent tomorrow.

You could rent yesterday. You make more than most adults in the US.

>> Yes. >> Are they like dude pay rent? You like you make way too much.

>> Yeah. I pay them $1,000 a month in rent.

>> Oh, well then just go pay a th000 go rent somewhere. >> I almost would go move out, James, since just from what you're making. Um,

>> and you're a very mature dude who knows his stuff and very entrepreneurial. >> Yeah. So, what I would say, James, is I would not be in a rush to buy a home. I would I think you've done an incredible job saving and I would continue to do that and maybe just wait 2, three years.

I don't know. Um, I'm kind of making up that timeline. and just to kind of see from a career standpoint where you want to be and if it still looks like okay in the near future this is probably where I'm going to be is this area then I probably would buy um but I just don't want something coming up in the next one two 3 years that for

some reason you cannot take an opportunity because you've just bought this home if that makes sense.

>> Okay. >> And I wouldn't just get a duplex and house hack because you know Tik Tok said it's a cool thing to do. Um, so I just don't want you jumping on it just because it sounds good. I want you to do it because it's the right move for your future.

>> Okay. Thank you. That's why I called you guys. >> Absolutely, man. Happy to help. >> Yeah. Well done, James. >> Yeah, I'm impressed. Yeah. A lot of people go, "I can do the duplex and I can." But he doesn't need it. He makes great money. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's not worth the $700 a month from a renter, >> right, >> to have them next door. So, I would just >> live your life and figure out what that next thing is. >> All right. Thomas is in Seattle up next.

What's going on, Thomas?

>> Hey guys. Um, I am recently married and

my wife and I are trying to combine our finances and I just found out she has a condo with a tenant and the tenant isn't currently currently covering all the costs of the condo. And so I want to approach a conversation with her about potentially getting out of this condo just because it's not a great situation for us. Um, but I'm concerned because obviously we're newly weds. I don't want to feel like I'm overstepping or anything like that. How did you just find out that she has a condo?

>> Well, I I I didn't just [clears throat] find out. I knew she has a condo, but I didn't know the exact numbers of everything. So, I'm just finding those numbers. >> You didn't knew it was like a dumpster fire that she's losing money on. But you knew before you got married, hey, she has this property over here. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. So, what's the math ending up being, Thomas? Like, what is she charging for rent? And then how much is she having to pay?

>> Yeah. So, she's charging uh $12.91 a

month for rent. Um, and she's short about $312 and that's roughly um, well, not $312,

it's roughly $200, but that's primarily HOA fee she's paying out of pocket.

>> And what's the market rate for that condo?

>> Um, >> is she undercharging on purpose?

>> Well, >> no, she Well, yes, she is undercharging on purpose. >> Okay. And how much is the mortgage payment a month on this? Uh the mortgage

payment is uh $1,171 a month.

>> Okay. Yeah. So she's barely

>> she's not breaking. I mean >> and that's without maintenance, repairs, vacancy, taking all that in consideration. >> Why is she undercharging again? What did you Why did you say she is?

>> The per the tenant who's renting from her is in uh she said she she's in a tough situation. So she doesn't want to um increase the rent.

>> Okay. But this person can't afford to live there. So they need to be evicted if they can't pay rent. They need to go find somewhere they can afford to live,

>> right? And that's sort of why I want to approach the conversation of selling. >> If she's into charity, let her give to a charity. But this is not the way to do it.

>> And I would be okay with it, Thomas, for like a period of time. But usually these situations are ongoing and then she's going to look up in three years and is not able to up the rent because this person that she is being generous to now is staying. And she's like, "Oh gosh, now if I up the rent in 3 years, how much more? They're for sure going to have to move out." Like at some point this person's not going to be able to afford to live there.

Is what I'm assuming. >> Yeah. >> So, it's kind of like, >> you think about it. >> Yeah.

wife looks up and she's like, "Oh my gosh, I can't even." Yeah. I mean, it it doesn't make mathematical sense. Um, so

she either needs to have a conversation with the tenant, which is probably going to be hard to do, and she may not want to do that. Um, but even I would possibly sell. Do you guys have a lot of consumer debt?

>> We do. Yeah.

Yeah, we do. >> Okay. How much would the condo How much does she owe on it? And how much could she sell it for?

>> Um, I don't exactly know what she owes on it, but she bought it three years ago for 195,000. I looked on Zillow today and it looks like it's roughly worth 177,000. So, I think she's underwater on it. >> Oh boy. Does she have any equity in it?

>> Um I I can't I wouldn't I wouldn't imagine a lot. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I would find out the balance. I would I mean, you guys are married. I would run through all these numbers and and go, hey, based on what we're looking for for financial financial future, which is to become debtree and have our own financial stability, it would be wise to sell this condo >> cuz right now you're losing money on it.

So even if you sold it and broke even, it would still be a net win for you guys. >> Yeah. But yeah, so I I probably wouldn't have a second property if you guys have a lot of consumer debt anyways. But on top of that, she's she's not charging enough to make it make sense. And it's not even like she's, you know, it's it like there there's a there's a formula out there where it makes sense, right?

If she's charging market rate and she's making a little bit on the side, I'd probably still sell it. But all that say that would at least make financial sense. This makes double no financial sense. >> And even if she breaks even, she's still losing money when you factor in all the maintenance and repairs and vacancies.

So, we need to get out of this. And you have the, you know, you have some influence now being the husband to go, "Hey, this does not make sense. It's moving us backwards financially. we're trying to move forwards and this is one step of that.

>> Yeah. And it could be a kind conversation. I mean, you guys can go into it and just be curious. Ask her some questions.

Like, hey, you know, this is kind of what I'm seeing. Like, help me make sense of what you're thinking and and we just want to be on the same page financially. Like, that's the main goal.

Um, but I think yeah, you can be kind.

George would probably be like, "Here's the number. We're selling it tomorrow. We're selling it tomorrow. I'm calling an agent.

>> [music]

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[music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Jeremiah 29:13. You will seek me and find me when

you seek me with all your heart. Abraham Lincoln said, "You have to do your own growing no matter how tall your grandfather was." Ain't that the truth.

>> There you go. >> Wish I could keep growing.

>> Be nice. Lynn is in Eugene, Oregon. Up

next. What's going on, Lynn?

>> Hi. Um, I'm 75. I quit my job to take

care of my mother who had dementia the last seven years. >> Oh, wow. And yeah, it it was I'm glad

that I did it. >> Um but I find that um and I did get an

inheritance. Um when I was caring for her, she had money invested um and it

was bringing in 1,200 a month and then we had her social security and then my social security of 155. And so now that she's passed, um, I

have inherited half of what was invested, which is, uh, 1,000, sorry,

105,000.

I've never invested before. I'm very frugal. I I began tithing when I read the Bible and became a believer 47 years ago. And I I'm a weirdo, I suppose, as

far as I've counted on God for things, and there have been miraculous provisions, like an inheritance that paid off my house a year before my husband left me and my seven kids. So, I

kind of I've and I've always worked.

I've never depended on others. And I mean, there have been gifts of love occasionally through the years. But my point is this. It's hard for me to um to

ask for like wisdom. I mean, I'm asking for wisdom. I need it because I've never invested. To me, it's always looked like gambling.

But I recognized that the the income actually that was important as I was caring for mom was coming from her investment. >> And so that was a certainly a good

indicator to me that it does work and your money doesn't get gambled away. It was because that's what it's always felt like when I look at it.

>> Feels risky to you. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Very. And being I am 75 and I

didn't I I became rather sedentary caring for my mother >> and so I'm not in the best shape. right now I don't really want to go back into the workforce again if it's possible I understand it may have to happen. So my question is, do you have any recommendation as to what you would

think would be best for my present uh

situation as far as to bring in some income from my inheritance or should I just I mean I figured out I need past my

income. I laid out all my expenses and

>> Yeah. What are your monthly expenses?

>> My monthly expenses are 2,417

a month including tithe. I'm very blessed to pay a very low rent of a,045

a month and then I have storage. So um and just regular paying for my Wi-Fi paying for my car insurance. >> Okay. So 2500 a month covers you comfortably. >> It does. >> And you have a,55 coming from social security. >> Yes. >> And no other money, no other assets other than 100 grand from this inheritance.

>> Right. Well, I actually I have I have I

saved uh myself 16,000,

but I had used Anyway, I >> Is that your savings essentially? Your emergency fund 16,000. Okay. So, we won't touch that. We're not going to count that in the income side. We need to protect that. >> So, you're really asking, I make 12 grand a year. I need to make, you know, you need an extra 1,500 bucks. And so, can we squeeze 1,500 bucks a month out of a h 100red,000?

>> Not not for a long time. I mean, how old was your mother? >> She was 93. >> So, let's assume you go to 93 at the

very least, right? That's >> Yeah, >> we need >> We'll give you 95. We'll go 20 20 years.

>> Rachel's very generous. So, 95. We need to make a 100 grand work for 20 years.

>> That's the math on that is tough.

>> Yeah, it is. >> Even invested aggressively, I don't know that you could make that last without running out of money. So, I do think it would be wise to find work that you can do as long as your body allows you to do it and make as much as you can, >> right? Yeah, I think I'm I'm gearing up

for that. Um, for sure.

>> Is there What would you do, Lynn? In a perfect world, >> what sounds lifegiving to you?

>> Well, I I wrote one book. It was of my first 50 years of life, uh, raising 10 children, uh, becoming a believer through reading the Bible when I was 28.

all the supernatural things God did. Uh my husband leaving us with when after 27 years of marriage. Um and and it was well received by the people who read it but not gotten much reading reading. But writing is my love and I still have another 25 years. I'd love to write more about how he has done so many awesome God has done so many awesome things >> through being in youth with a mission with my five youngest.

Yeah. And >> I just wonder with that gift of writing um and you may have to be a little flexible on topic or whatnot, but you know, the ideal world for me for you would be to do something that you love, that you're good at, that you're passionate about, and you can make some money. And the good thing is, Lynn, you know, you don't have to be making a ton, right? I'm like, you know, even if you're making >> golly two grand a month, you'll be fine.

But but but to George's point earlier,

the more you make, even if it's above what you need, could be put away with that 100 grand. So that when in 10 years

or in five years, >> you are able then to slow back and live off those investments, right? So um >> right now the goal is to not touch that 100 grand. That feels like your worst case scenario because truthfully, you could probably live off that for six years and then it's gone. That's what I figured already. >> Even if it's invested, yeah, you could make a little more, but it's 100,000.

It's not a million. So, even invested, if you're making 10% instead of 4%, it's 4 grand versus 10 grand. It's still not enough to cover our bills forever. And so, you're going to need to get support elsewhere from working, maybe even from the kids.

You have 10 kids. Are they Do you have a relationship with them? Would they be willing to >> All of them? Yeah.

>> Like, everyone put in a hundred bucks and let's help mom >> that I don't know. I don't know. They're all Most of them are homeowners. Some have rentals, but they have to ask rent higher than I can pay.

one has already given me their gas card

uh after my mom died and said, "Please use this. We want you to let us pay for your gas from now on." >> That's sweet. >> Very kind. Very, very kind.

>> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I think Lynn, um yeah, I do think work is in your future. Um and again finding something that you can do

um ideally again for the in towards you know the fact you're 75 million I would love for you to be at a job that you >> something you enjoy doesn't have to be something miserable >> but we do need to be making some income and the more income you can find even though you um you're so humble and so

grateful. I can hear it in your voice.

You may feel like I don't need that much. But just remember, if you're making extra, that's money being put away so that you don't have to work hopefully um for the rest of your life, right? That you can be living off some of these investments, too. So, I think that's the goal. But, um >> it might be worth getting a third opinion from a financial advisor, Lyn.

So, if you want to jump on ramies.com and click on Smart Investor Pro, they can just crunch the numbers for you and go, "Hey, here's if you did this, here's how much money you could make with this investment. If you put it over here, here's potentially how much you could make in the market if you put it over here. And at least they can run that to show you you got the best shot if you do XYZ to let this money last as long as possible.

>> Yes. >> But that's tough. And I think it's a you know it's a good point that she made that a lot of people we've taken a few calls I feel like today about this of the caution around investing. Um so

whether it's people are nervous and it's usually the older people we talk to the more cautious they get which makes sense because you're like okay I have I don't want to lose this money. >> It feels overwhelming. >> Yes. So just remembering you guys to focus on the facts when it comes to money is so important.

Especially that side of looking at what really has happened when you put money in the market. And that's what you have to bank on, right? You have to focus on the facts, not this idea of what could happen one day.

That was >> Oh, yeah. I took that call. That was a wild one. And a good reminder that social security is not going to be enough. It was never meant to be enough.

It was meant to cover a portion of your salary, but in this situation, as we can see, a thousand bucks, it's a nice start, but it's not going to cover all the bills. And so, do not rely on social security as your income and retirement.

You've got to stack up your own nest egg. And that's through investments in the stock market, through mutual funds and index funds. And if anybody listening wants a guide on how to do it the Ramsay way, in a wise way without falling on your face, you can go to ramseyolutions.com/guide.

We've got a free investing guide that walks you through all of this and it's a great resource regardless of your age to learn cuz we tell you don't invest in anything you don't understand but it's still your job to learn it and understand it. So go check that out as well. [music] That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Until next time remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to [music] walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 39. Don't Get Pulled Into the Gravitational Pull of Drama | February 24, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:43:48 |

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Normal is [music] broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Warshaw is my co-host today, Ramsey personality number one best-selling [music] author. Our phone number here is 888-825-5225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Shawn is in Fargo, North Dakota. Hey Shawn, what's up in your world?

Oh, not much, Dave. Just enjoying my life. Good. How can we help?

So, I am kind of stressed out right now

in a little It's kind of in a pickle, feels like, with my family.

They are, give or take, five to six million dollars in their family business debt.

And I am struggling to

um struggling like to cope with like my dad is in failing

health and he owns the family business and he is not worried about the major debt that his business has.

Okay. Do you work there?

Uh part-time. Okay. Cuz I can't I can't

handle full-time there.

Can't handle it. What do you mean? Him?

You can't handle him?

No, just the ide- ideology he has in the

business dealings. Okay.

So, why is it bringing you stress?

You're a part-time job with a business that's in trouble.

And with a guy whose ideology you don't agree with. Why would that be cause you to be stressful? I will be most likely be inheriting it with my three brothers, the business, which is probably worth around $10 million. Mhm.

And so I'm kind of in talks right now to take over the books and all the like the business side of it to pretty much be full-time.

When are you supposed to do that? >> And um probably within the next 10 to 15 years.

I'm so confused. Okay.

Um Yeah, I mean, so you're going to be part-time with a guy you disagree with while he runs the business in the ground for the next 10 years and you're going to stand there and watch it happen and then they're going to hand it to you and call that a blessing. Yeah. Why don't you just say I don't want it? >> Yeah.

I don't I don't want it. Cuz so like I mean, it's a good Oh, I shouldn't say a good business.

But is it really worth cuz he tries to get

me to go full-time like almost weekly on a weekly basis.

Well, you tell us the upside because you called in and said all the negative things. So, it makes sense that >> here sounds like something I want to do.

Why would you want to do this?

Yeah. So, is it So, I guess I want to

ask, should I try to like almost intervene and be like, "Yo, we shouldn't start taking out this debt." Or because they're thinking about adding another Who's they?

>> $1.5 million debt. My my family. Your brothers.

Yeah, my brothers. >> Who are your future partners? >> another million dollars in the debt. >> Who are your future Who are your future partners? I All my brothers. Yeah, but you said it You're saying your brothers are dumb as your dad. You said it before yourself, uh Shawn. You said their ideologies completely different than yours. And I think you need to accept that that that's the case and you haven't said anything that shows any sign of them changing that ideology.

And so, if they continue down this path for the next however many years, they're just entrenching themselves further in that. And you're part-time. What do you do for a living?

I operate heavy equipment. All right.

Are you a Are you the baby of the family?

No, no, I'm not. Second No, I'm not the third oldest. Middle, okay. All right.

Yeah, um well, here here's the thing. I don't think that these people are going to change. Do you?

No, I don't. I Okay. So, you either got to walk away from them or you got to enjoy their bull crap.

Yeah, that's one way to put it.

>> I mean, you really do. You're going to have to decide which one you're going to be. If it's me, I'm going to let them have it. I'm going to walk away. Uh-huh. This sounds like a bear trap. Sounds like it's going to tear your freaking leg off.

It's going to The next 10 years of your life are going to be pure freaking misery till the old man dies and then when he dies, now you got partners that were trained by him called your brothers. No, thank you. I don't want in this.

For sure, for sure. Yeah, I just I I

there's nothing here that aligns with who you are or who you want to be.

This all sounds like misery.

And there's not enough money there to fool with. Let them have it. They're going to screw it up. It's going to be worth nothing.

Yeah. And you don't believe that. You're still You think your your wife thinks you're walking away from a million dollars and you're not. You're walking away from a million dollars worth of debts what you're walking away from.

So, >> years? >> I would sit down if you want to have one final conversation with the boys and with the dad and say, "Guys, I don't I'm I'm uncomfortable with this much debt and I'm not going to join the business as long as you guys continue to run it further up into debt and have no desire to get out of debt cuz it makes me uncomfortable.

And I can love you, and if you want to go over there and do something that I don't agree with, we can still be dad and son, we can still be brothers, I can still love you. Yeah. But I do not want to personally be involved in this. It brings me great stress just thinking about it.

And so, if you guys want to commit to a path that gets us out of debt and keeps us out of debt as a permanent way of doing business, I would love to join and be part of this thing. I think it's got a future. But I am not going to get on this horse when you have this many bricks in the saddle bags.

Clearly easier said than done. Cuz you're going to have basically your whole family on this side, and you're the Lone Ranger over here. That's not easy, but I I agree 100%.

>> Well, the thing is, you put her by on notice, and a 100% chance they're not going to do it. >> No. >> And so, you're basically saying, "Here's why I'm going to go on and have my great life over here, and I'm going to love you." I've got family members, most of my family members don't do the stuff I teach. >> [laughter] >> But I'm not in a I'm not in a deal with them, either. And I still love them.

Some of them even vote wrong, and I still love them. But that doesn't mean I have to go around and be in business with them, and it doesn't mean I have to you sit around and be stressed, and I'm like somehow guilted into joining something I completely disagree with. No, walk away from it, son. It ain't worth it.

You make a lot of money running your own heavy equipment operation. Yeah, that's >> Without any debt. That's probably the other part of it is there's the a lure that maybe there's like that bit maybe

just possibly one day it could be good, then you look back, and you're like, "Man, I should have stayed part of it, right?" He's probably thinking about that little one one or two percent.

Yeah. It's like, "I'm going to pet an alligator and hope it don't bite." What did I do? They bite. You know, it's dumb. You're just asking for it. Don't think they're going to change. They don't They only do how to do one thing, and that's bite. So, don't don't be shocked when they bite. I mean, it's just your dad, this is what he does.

It's It's just a predictable environment. >> Yeah. And he he didn't hide it. He's not sure He just said, "This is who I am." Yeah, that's right. >> kind of said, "Like it or lump it." So, I'd lump it. That's what I do. I mean, you know, it it's just it's hard to walk away from something like that, especially when all the family ties it feels like you're being drawn in by a tractor beam.

Yes.

A gravitational pull. Yes, drama has a gravitational pull. I've noticed that.

Drama. Drama, family drama will suck you

in and eat your life.

Yeah. And then we connect a little $5 million debt to it, just for the fun of it. Yeah. I

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Nicole is in Atlanta. Hi, Nicole. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you? Good. What's up?

Um so, me and my husband live in an apartment and we're trying to decide if we should move to a bigger space because we do have two three kids. So, two are five-year-old twins and then a two-year-old baby girl. So, um last year we were able to pay off our vehicle, but we have $62,000 worth of student loan debt left.

Um and we were going to use we've been using mostly like our overage, which is about $1,100 um that we have a month to put towards our debt. And then we also pretty much use like our tax break or whenever that comes in to throw a lot at it just in and out. So, we're trying to see we want them to you know have a space to have a yard and like just more space. It's a little bit cramped up um with all five of us here.

So, we were just wondering if we should stay or if we should kind of go.

What are you guys earning between the two of you right now? Um gross would be 103,000. Okay.

The hard part with this is what you said. If you were to move from this apartment to a house, it's going to close the gap on how much margin you have to throw out this debt, which means there's going to be a longer period of time that you're going to be in debt, which long-term that's going to affect your ability to build wealth.

For that reason, I like the idea of home ownership, but I think the first step in that process needs to be eliminating the debt so that you can actually go whole-wholeheartedly into the home buying process and actually do it the right way so that it's a blessing for you. You're not even talking about home ownership. You're talking about renting a nicer place, aren't you? Yeah, yeah, we were actually like looking to our rent is 2,200.

>> Mhm. And so we were wanting to rent like thinking about 2,500 but that doesn't include like gas and utility. I'm sorry, you know, the increase in utility >> Yeah. Yeah, so we just don't know if that's going to be leaving us with a lot. >> 400 instead of 1,000. How much How much debt have you paid off so far?

Uh 36,000 with the vehicle. And how long did that take?

Uh that took us 2 years. Okay. Making 130,000.

Uh 103,000 a year.

>> 103,000 Yeah. So, you guys suck at this so far, Nicole.

We suck. >> Yeah. $18,000 making 100 grand per year

is not enough debt reduction.

You guys are You're still out You're still going out to eat. You're still going on vacation. You're still spending money. You're still not on a tight budget.

And And so you made a little progress, but you should have made a lot more progress. If you told me you paid off 36,000 in 6 months, see, then I can take that number and go, "Oh, wait a minute.

Yeah. That ain't cool. >> That's true. That ain't cool.

>> Great, that's how we feel. Yeah, we got to We got to not get stuck in that. And if you feel like you're never going to get out, then you just say, "Well, the heck with it. I'll just take a big old rent and go ahead and enjoy my life now and get the kids a yard." And you know, you give up you're giving up is what you're doing because you're not making fast enough progress.

And so, I'm going to put you on the beans and rice plan if I'm you. I'm going to sit down with my husband and go, "Look, we did a little bit here, and we didn't do a bad thing, but we really weren't It wasn't like we were spectacular. We kind of got the flu here.

Not renting one. Yeah, I I I But what you're talking about is a five-year plan, and you won't even make it.

I agree. I I If you can have these kids

They're young right now, right? They're 5 years old, 3 years old.

Now's the time that they can be squished, and they don't know the difference. You know the difference, but they don't know the difference. And I for one would try to stay in that position as long as possible and save as much money as possible so that you can pay off the debt. >> if they're squished and their life is miserable for 1 year, >> They'll be fine.

that's better than them being not squished and having a mediocre to average life for the rest of their life. >> You want to know what though? I I think back a lot of times on the house that I grew up in, and I think back on the house that my parents grew up in with six kids. Yeah, nobody told us we were >> Nobody told us we were squished.

No. We were, but nobody told us we were. It was a 1,000 square foot brick ranch.

And so, I mean, we went out in the backyard and played. They'd say, "Go play in the traffic." And they You know >> didn't have to go in. like Yeah, just play outside all the time.

You tell >> your kids to go play in the traffic? You don't tell your kids >> tell them to play in traffic. I just TELL [laughter] THEM TO MY MOTHER would say that all the time. Go play in the traffic. Get out of my Get out from under my feet.

Yes. [laughter] That's what caused me to be the way I am. Dustin is in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

Hey Dustin, what's up?

Hi. Um so, I'll get right into it. Uh my dad incurred about $30,000 in debt. Uh he has no retirement. His only income is his social security.

Uh he now has dementia and my brother and I are left uh kind of trying to manage this for him.

Um he's currently being sued on one credit card for 8,000 and he owes 13,000

on another credit card. And I guess my question is should we try and settle this with them? And my brother and I would have >> No. No assets. Well, how would he settle it? I essentially my brother and I would have to help him out in that. >> Why? Why would you do that? Just tell them tell the credit card company to bite me. He has no money. He has nothing to give. They can't get anything. He doesn't have anything, right?

Uh yeah, he has nothing. It's only social security and I don't believe they can touch that. >> They can't touch that. Does he own a home? No. No. He does not have any money in his bank account except the social security.

Yeah, it would it would just be for me and my brother to have one less thing to to have to deal with. >> I wouldn't deal with it at all. I got one less thing. I'm just going to show them the smallest finger on my left hand and say that's all you get, nothing. Are they calling you?

Uh no. No.

I just tell them to you know, tell them jump in a creek. You shouldn't have allowed to loan money to a guy who had dementia and no money.

Okay. And should I uh should I offer to have them sign a stipulated judgment to avoid additional attorney fees or >> tell Who cares? They're not going to get any of it. What I would do is call them up and say if you want to talk to them, call them up and just say this. Say, I want you to make a note in the file. He has advanced dementia and zero assets.

We're not going to have any conversations with you. You might as well write this off cuz you're not getting a dime." Okay. And I just real simple, I mean, let's pretend he had passed away.

Okay? I just send them a copy of the death certificate as a courtesy to let them know and and let them know that there's not a there's no estate. And then then after that I'm not having any more discussions with these people. They're morons.

Yeah, none of this can pass to you if you're worried about that.

Uh no, yeah, I'm I'm not worried about that. I mean, it's his debt and I Yeah, I am not responsible for that. So. It's just sad and it's sad it's one of those part It's a sad uh sub chapter, sub

paragraph in this overall sad story that you're dealing with, but what I would do is just say, "I'm not going to worry about it at all." And if you want to have one conversation just as a courtesy, you could, but I'm not going to have lengthy conversations. I'm not going to have multiple conversations.

And I'm not going to give them a dime.

There's no point in it. They shouldn't have loaned him the money.

Yeah. I agree. And it's it's just sad. I'm sorry for you having to face that and um

you know, I've run into situations like that in my life. Dustin, how old are you? Uh 44. Yeah, I've run into situations like that and what I do is I say, "Okay,

>> [sighs] >> I got to help my dad out." Uh in your case, this is what you're saying. "I got to help my dad out and this is a sad situation. And so what I'm going to get from this is a lesson to never end up like this." Right.

I'm going to do whatever it takes in my life to not end up this way.

It's like, you know, I I I was working for a guy one time, he goes, "I might be working in McDonald's at my retirement, but it'll be the one I own in St.

Thomas." >> Come on now. So, I'm going to learn a lesson from those old people standing there working in McDonald's cuz they don't have any money. I don't want to be one of them. That's right.

And so you look at this and you go he's got no assets, he's got dementia, and the only positive thing in his life is he's got two sons that love him and are going to care for him. Other than that, this guy's a pauper, [music] we would use old language, but it's very sad. And so take it as a lesson to go I'm never, you know, and then you teach your kids.

We're shifting it. I know, that's right.

So take a lesson from it at least. At least get that out of it. But no, I wouldn't give those guys any money. >> [music] >> Not a dime.

>> [music]

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[music] >> Neil is in Birmingham. Hi Neil, how are you? Hey hey, I'm very blessed to be speaking with you and Jade Dave. Thank you. How can we help? Uh yes, sir. So, my wife and I are working on baby step four and six. We are both nervous about a retirement and

working with a financial planner with our advisor. We've never worked with one before, but we both grew up in households with pensions, but no nest egg to fall back on.

>> Mhm. And so, we're really nervous about

the future. Neither one of us want to retire poor. Good for you.

Well, the what you don't want from an advisor, I'm not sure why you're nervous. I want to hear that in a minute. But what you don't want is from

an advisor is arrogance

or looking dropping their glasses on the end of their nose and shaming or telling you what you need to do.

These are all warning signs that you run from, that you should be nervous about.

When you sit down with a good advisor,

they should be teaching you

and saying, "This is how this thing works and this is why I personally use

it and this is why Dave Ramsey recommends this and here's how it works." And you say, "Well, I don't understand." Okay, well, let me try let me teach you another way. Well, I still don't understand. Okay, then you're your job is to teach me and then I

will decide. I kind of think of it this way. I think about sometimes I go into a nice restaurant and we ask the waiter,

you know, "What what's the best thing in here?" You ever done that? >> Mhm. Yes, sir. And I don't always get what they suggest cuz sometimes what they suggest, I don't like.

Well, we we've been doing it on our own for several years. >> over to them. I just listen to them and then I make my choice.

>> Yes, sir. So, we we've been doing it on our own for for several years. We we basically started putting in 15% I guess about five or six years ago after we finally were able to. And so, we we're trying to we're playing catch-up cuz we are we are in our 50s now. And so, we're trying to play catch-up. And so, but we our our 401k's not doing not not kicking out the percentages that we hear on the show

that like that that the S&P did last year. Yeah. And everything. And so, when but we have talked to a couple of financial people. Some of them are out of state. We don't know the ins and outs of working with somebody out of state.

We don't know how that works. We don't know how that works.

>> Okay. See, that's what me and my wife thought, but we were basically told by somebody we were old school. That that's the old way of thinking. That Somebody's always got an opinion about your money.

Have you noticed that?

>> Oh, yes, sir. Yeah, so what I did listen, if you just go to Ramsey Solutions, you click on SmartVestor Pro, you'll find several people in Birmingham that we recommend and we don't recommend them if they don't have the heart of a teacher and they don't agree with the stuff we teach here on the air. And so, that's a baseline and then you sit down and interview them and say, "Would I hire this person as my tutor, as my teacher?"

Okay. So, so we're kind of nervous when when we were with a SmartVestor Pro, but should we be willing to turn over our money to them? I don't I don't know. We don't know how that works. A lot of it Well, your 401k, you can't turn over.

You have to leave it at your workplace.

They can look at it for you and say, "Go back over to work." And that's a choice you could make right there that'd make you more That one that that particular fund outperformed the S&P. The three you got didn't." They can help you look at that, but they can't manage it. By turning it over, all it is is you're setting the the stuff under their management, but they're not going to do anything without you telling them what to do. I got you.

They're not authorized to do trades.

They're not authorized to do anything unless you tell them to do it.

Okay. Okay, that's see that's something we didn't know. We didn't know when we do it, do we just have to turn everything over to them? >> I would I would put everything on the table and let them look at the whole picture.

But I'm not going to lose control of it.

I don't lose control of anything. See, when I hire a lawyer some lawyers get confused. They think they get to tell you what to do. And I'm like, no, you work for me.

You work for me. You tell You tell me what the situation is and then I will decide based on the information you teach me about this particular law, about this particular situation, what I am going to do. And then I'm going to tell you what to do.

Exactly. [laughter] That's You don't You just don't want You want to keep in control as to who's in charge here. You know what I'm saying? Oh, yes, sir. I completely understand. We're We're in our Like I said, I'm I'm 52, so we're going down the track here getting closer to Well, all you're doing is saying I probably can make my money work harder with someone who plays with money all day long teaching me.

Yes, sir. That's all it is. And that's Okay. That's all it is. Well, that's what Yes, sir. That's what we will do then. That's where just We don't want to retire poor. You're not.

>> That's the biggest thing we're nervous about. You're You're not You're not going to retire poor. You're going to retire rich. I can tell just by talking to you. Because you're freaking paying attention.

People that retire poor don't bother to look at it.

Well, unfortunately, I think we look at it every day. Well, see, you're you're getting all twisted up, man. You need to [laughter] Get you a plan, write the plan, and have a little peace in your finances. But yeah, that that's

It do It does It takes um I think not knowing is what kills you.

100% The fact that I can already tell that guy's quite frugal just by listening. Yeah, for sure. >> Uh they're doing the right thing and it's okay. Everybody Everybody has their moment at different times in life where they they wake up and they go, "Oh crap, I got to get my money together." And so for some of us it's a little later down the line, but once to your point, once you start paying attention, there is time to make things right, especially if you're doing the Ramsey plan.

Chloe's in Orlando. Hi Chloe.

Hi, I'm great. Hi Dave and Jade. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure, what's up?

All right, so my fiance and I are getting married at the end of this year in October. >> Great. He He has quite a bit of money saved, but we also have debt and we're also trying to save for a wedding. So we kind of need some help figuring out how

to go about this. >> Cool. How much do you have saved?

In total liquid saved, Mhm. we have

123,000.

>> Awesome. Who's we? Wait a minute. Who How much does he have? How much do you have? He has Okay, let me start with me. I have only

about 2,000. Him and I together created

a savings account that is about 22,000.

And he has the rest, which would probably be about 100,000. Okay.

>> Okay. And and and the 22,000 I'm guessing is for I hope you're saving for the wedding. That's correct. >> Okay. And what are you planning to spend on the wedding?

45,000.

Are there any family members helping out?

Yes, we have um my parents are giving us 10,000 and then

he has an uncle that has given him 10,000 as well. Okay, that's 42. So that's 42. So you're there.

>> And what is your What is your household What is your income and what is his income?

Um his income is a take home around 96,

a little bit more with bonuses, and then mine's I just put myself on salary. I do have um my own business, but on salary I take home >> I don't care what your salary is. What's your income?

What is the business profit going to be this year?

Oh, um probably 80,000.

>> Okay. All right, so you got a a $200,000 income between you if you were to be married today. You have 22,000 plus you have pledges to get you up to 45,000 for your wedding budget. So the wedding budget's done. Can we agree on that?

Yes. >> Okay, good. And then how much debt do you have and how much debt does he have?

Um without the home, I have around

um 14,000 in um credit card and my car. And he has

a >> 14 is the credit card and car?

Um I owe about 4,200 on my car and then I have 8,000 in credit cards. >> Okay. >> Okay. All right, all right. And then um

his um truck is about 35,000.

And he has a credit card of 34. thousand

hundred >> hundred, sorry. Okay. hundred All right, cool. Very easy then. You do not need to combine finances until after the honeymoon.

Okay. So he should pay off his truck and his credit card today out of his hundred.

Okay. >> And you need to start working to pay off your 13 as fast as possible and the wedding is already done.

Okay. Now my question is he's going to be worried about paying his truck off because that dwindles down his savings account. >> When you guys are going to have You guys are going to have to really quickly have a talk about how you view debt and how you're going to manage debt and finances in your in your marriage going forward.

>> doesn't really have a hundred thousand. He already [music] spent 34 of it. He just hadn't admitted it.

>> [music]

>> Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know? Well, really a couple things.

Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars. And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular, proper maintenance.

Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So, when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no-brainer and they've been absolutely great.

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See store for details.

>> [music]

>> Logan's in Indiana. Hey, Logan, what's up?

All right, man. Let's try again. Hey, Logan, what's up?

Hey, sir, how we doing? Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can I help?

Well, I'm trying to get some advice on my wife and I going into um debt to

start a cattle operation. Mhm.

Okay. All right. How long you've been listening to the show, Logan?

Uh about 6 months or so. Okay.

And so you know that about 95% of what we talk about is telling people to not go in debt and and to how to get out of debt, right?

Yeah, it is. I feel like I've heard a little bit of information with businesses that sometimes like buying a business or something that can depend on the profit that it brings and how quickly it can be paid off. So, I wanted to Yeah. see if that would work in this case. No, that would be like buying it from an owner and the owner gets the pro- the former owner gets the profit and not borrowing $150,000 to buy cows from the bank. That's different. Um Okay.

So, I don't borrow money, Logan, and uh I've done that for 40 years.

And I run a business and I've grown the business with the profits in the business without borrowing money to do it. And because the simple fact is this, business has risk.

When you borrow money to start a business or run a business, you increase the risk a hundredfold.

A lot more chance that you're going to go bankrupt. And so, um what is what's your household income, sir?

About 120 to 130,000 current depending on overtime. Good for you. So, if you took out a $150,000 loan, how fast could you pay it back?

>> [snorts] >> Um running the numbers that we ran given the market now, you know, and obviously as long as it doesn't just completely tank out, within about 2 years um to three at the most, by your third your first third round of calves, um everything should be completely paid off and it would be profit after that, minus operational costs. >> Yeah. So, what would be wrong with starting a little bit smaller and taking 4 years and making the thing cash flow its way to the exact same position?

Buy buy buy a third of what you're talking about buying with cash.

Okay. And make that third buy the next third

and buy the next third. You don't need any money out of this cattle operation.

You could pour every single dollar of profit into growing it. Agreed?

Correct. Yeah, that would be the plan. Because you have a good income at home already. And so, um I I think it would it's what we call in business organically growing the business with your cash your own cash.

And that's what we've done here.

Although, we weren't able to do it as fast as you're going to be able to do it. And that's assuming cattle prices don't do what they have done in the past, which is they're all over the freaking place, as you know.

I'm sure you've looked at the trend lines on that. It's scary.

So, there's times the market has tanked.

And uh it's an agricultural product, and so it's a it's a lot more unpredictable than some other types of businesses.

So, you've got to be very very careful.

But, if I were in your shoes, I would get I would I would scratch the itch, but I would save up 50 75,000 dollars in cash by living on nothing, and I'd dump every bit of that in there, and then I'd take every dime of profit and use it to grow the business. And I think you'll be there 1 year later than you would have been there if you borrowed the money and everything went perfect, which by the way, nothing ever goes perfect.

That is that is that's true. Yeah.

I mean, you get the cows get sick.

There's all kinds of problems. There's you You the Brazilians decide they're going to come in and, you know, upset the beef market. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how all this works, but there's always something, right?

Correct. So, um yeah, it it I I would rather you do that and and be tired and um stretched on your cash and then no one's going to take it away from you. You're not going to lose everything because you rolled the dice on this particular horse race.

I just crossed metaphors. >> You did. That's all right.

That No, that that makes sense. Um a follow-up to that would be is if you were to cash flow this, what's your opinion on um you know, like leasing pasture and stuff? Do you look at that as debt or is that looked at a little bit different like >> No, that's just overhead. That's like That's just like lease That's like leasing a building to run your business in. Instead instead of buying the building.

That's There's no problem. I would rent the pasture for sure.

Okay. Cuz now we've got two businesses.

If you If you buy the pasture, you got two businesses. You got the real estate business and the farming business.

Yeah. I mean, it's like it's like me. I've got this building here that's 650,000 square feet. Like, you know, 600,000 600 million dollar property, right? So, I've got this piece of real estate. I'm in the real estate business and I've got a business that's inside the real estate.

But, I've got two things going on here, very substantial things.

Ramsey and a big old piece of real estate, big campus here, right? I mean, I'm in the office building business, period. No No matter how you cut it. And and you can sep You can mix those two together and act like, "Well, they're all one thing." No, they're really not.

It's I got a big old office building. I could have leased it. There's six of them right down the road down here. I could lease another one and not put you know, not put not put a half a billion dollars into this thing, right?

So, that that's that's the thing.

I just lease it. If you're going to start a restaurant, for God's sakes, don't buy the building.

>> Oh gosh, please no.

Just just rent the building and get started, you know? You can start a daycare, rent the building.

And just don't don't get in the real estate business until you've been in business a long time, and you've got a predictable environment. But you don't have that there until then, so wow.

Cool. I think we won that one. Yeah, I think I think he's going to take your advice. I think he's going to do it. >> I believe in him. I like it. I like Logan. All right, that's kind of nice.

I'm I like getting one occasionally.

>> [laughter] >> Leona's in Cincinnati. Hi Leona, how are you?

Hi Dave, hi Jade. I'm good, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um so I have a quick question. So my

husband and I, we have a 1-year-old, and we recently moved, well, not recently, last year. We had switched from our apartment because of noisy neighbors, and went to a townhome.

Um the townhome, when we moved in there, it was not great. And we sent several

emails to the leasing office about the issues that we were having, and, you know, mold, and spiders everywhere, and centipedes, and all these things happening in there. Um we told them that we are not happy with the townhome, and they said they'll fix things. Months went by, they weren't fixing anything. So we decided to just break our lease because I have legal shield through my job, and I reached out to an attorney through there, and they said, "Well, they failed to provide livable living conditions.

I have pictures of everything. >> Mhm. And you don't owe anything.

can break your lease, and you'll be fine." >> Oh boy, that >> [laughter] >> That was not GOOD ADVICE.

>> OH.

YEAH, YOU got what you paid for with that lawyer. Did you send them Did you send I mean, did you get any Did you send them anything in writing? Did you do any Did you do your due diligence other than just making a phone call?

Oh, no. So we definitely sent pictures.

Oh, you mean to the leasing office or to your legal shield? Uh both. Did you send them Did you let them know that you were seeking legal legal counsel on behalf Like did you go through the due diligence of making sure that they understand what's going on? >> I Yeah, so I called the leasing office.

My husband went up there cuz they weren't responding to my emails. My husband went up there up there.

Um, he talked to them. They said, "Okay, we'll take care of things." Um, a couple months went by and nothing was happening. The most they did was change the tray in the dishwasher. Okay, so stop. Just I just stop. I mean, they they it's You just moved out when you got mad cuz you called Legal Shield and they said, uh, you could.

Yeah, well, we weren't we weren't planning to break our lease cuz we did that before to move to where we are now and that was not fun. So, we said we're not going to break a lease unless we get some kind of advice that we can. So, after we said called the head office, the property management company or whoever, um, we talked to the district manager. They said, "Okay, definitely send us emails and everything, all the pictures that you've been reaching out to them about and everything." Did that, no response.

So, the Legal Shield attorney said, um, they sent them a letter to the leasing office and the property management company and saying that they failed to provide whatever suitable living conditions for us and our child. So, we

don't owe them anything.

So, because of that, we decided to just break our lease because they weren't fixing anything. We asked them multiple times, "Are you going to Yeah, well, then this is on Legal Shield. Legal Shield needs to defend you for free.

Mhm. Yeah, they told they told us >> going to get You're going to get sued. I can promise you.

I promise you, 100% this landlord's coming after you. You don't have the option of just walking away because I got some bugs.

Even if you send them pictures and even if they don't answer you, even if they're jerks, even if they have horrible service, it's not how it works.

I mean, so now Legal Shield's bit this off, they need to pick it up and close the deal >> [music] >> and I and they're not going to be able to. This is going to be horrible for you.

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>> [snorts]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host. Diane is in

Chicago. Hey Diane, how are you?

Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Oh, yeah, same here. Well, I Thank you for taking my call. Um I currently have um

uh quite a bit of money in the bank, I feel. Um and I am thinking about my retirement and I'd like to know how best

I should invest it in order to make it last through retirement. How much is it?

Um I So, I have 600,000 in the bank.

Wow. >> Um and that that's free.

Um I have two There's 250,000 in retirement. Um which I don't know what to do with cuz it's been with a cable service since um we had owned our own business. Um and it's just been sitting there. I don't know what to do with it. I know nothing about it. I wasn't actively involved in our business. Um I stayed home and took care of our kids, uh raised them, and um I decided to go into my own franchise and so I know that I'll be using some of that money for the franchise.

But I don't know that it is sitting in a

bank is the best place for it. Yeah, how how old are you?

Uh 57. Okay.

And you you said you were not involved in the business and now you're opening a franchise with the business money.

Yes, uh-huh. Okay. Um so, your husband

was running the business?

Yes, uh-huh. Where is he?

Um he's he's at home. Um he is supporting me on my business. He's hoping at some point he'll be able to branch out and do something on his own.

Um but everything's been in my name. Um

the the bank accounts, the houses, the business. We sold the business last year and then um That where the 600 grand came from?

Yeah, we sold it for 1.2 million, but we

were given a large lump sum and we paid off some unexpected unknown debts. Like >> Um, okay. Unknown.

You're being cryptic.

>> I I didn't know about it. You [laughter] don't have to tell us You don't have to tell us what's going on cuz you're not This is not making sense. >> My hus- My hus- My husband has a gambling debt.

I don't know what he He gets He gets a set amount every month that comes in that he collects and he uses that for extra curricular activities. I have no idea what he uses it for. >> know how much he's Oh, no, [clears throat] I know how much he gets. He gets $3,600 a month and that's his play money. Um, I get $700 >> So, he he's basically got a gambling problem that ran you guys deeply in debt and that's why everything's in your name. Yes. Okay. All right, that makes sense.

>> So, who's supplying the $3,600 a month for him to continue gambling?

Um, we have $2,500 coming in from our rental. The um, that person bought the

business and he has the option to buy at the end of the year for $350,000 if he exercises that right.

Um, and then he also gets social security, $1,100 a month. Okay. So, at this point you're okay with losing $40,000 a year with your husband.

No, I'm not, but I have no control over that.

What's the What's the plan moving forward? Does he know that Does he know that he has a gambling >> of control. You got everything in your name.

Right, everything's in my name. Um, he knows that I'm opening up this franchise which will be um, approximately $125,000

to open the franchise on my own. Mhm. Um

>> [snorts] >> He He's just kind of like leaving letting me leave the money in the bank, but I feel like it's not getting the best return. So, I'm looking for ways that I can invest it. >> Yeah, I mean, we could tell you to get with a Smart Vestor Pro and and invest that money, but I really I feel like that's the issue of the conversation.

Yeah, there's a lot There's so much going on. Here's the problem. It It's hard to fill up a hole while somebody's digging out the bottom.

Right. >> And that That's kind of what we're hearing here. But you You feel like you've got him uh his his gambling addiction under control, and I question that because I've seen I've seen so many Well, I mean but but uh and so as long as you keep this stuff in your name uh I guess you have the option of divorce at some point if he runs up you know, let's say he runs up a million-dollar gambling debt and you don't want to pay it with the money that's in your name, then you've only got one option at that point.

So, anyway, that's what you're facing. So, yeah, I would take the 600,000 and I'd take the 250,000 and I would sit down with a SmartInvestor Pro and begin to invest it in good mutual funds. If it averages 10% or more, it will double every 7 years. So, you basically got a million dollars in 7 years.

years old, you'd have $2 million. Add 7 more years at 71 years old, you'd have $4 million. So, you're going to be fine if you do that and you don't piss it away with this uh franchise. If this franchise doesn't go belly up on you. And um so, uh and it

sounds like you've never run a business before. He ran the business before and now you're buying a franchise. So, that's a little concerning. Is the franchise in the same like field of expertise or is it something totally different?

No, it's something that I'm passionate about. It's something that is for me, not for him. Yeah. I don't expect his involvement in it, but I'm very confident and very passionate about this, and I'm expecting for it to be very successful.

And I have a family that is willing to stand behind me and support me. So, that's not even a question whether or not that's going to be successful. I'm confident that it will be. Yeah.

So, there there is risk that you're not perceiving, apparently. So, yeah, you're going to buy it and you're going to do it, but I want to insulate you from you and this bad decision, if it's a bad decision, and I want to insulate you from him and his continuous bad decisions with a 600 or more thousand

dollars going over in a regular low-risk investment in comparison to gambling and in comparison to franchise purchasing.

Uh and so, let's put some money over there. So, if these other two things go sideways and this plan doesn't work, um

then uh uh you know, you you've at least got that money working for you. So, yeah, you need to sit down and do that and you need to put a real limit on

the amount of dollars you're going to pour into the franchise before it starts giving you money back instead of you putting money into it. >> Absolutely. And cuz if you don't with the level of unrealistic optimism that you're coming at this with and you're positive uh how positive you are about it, then you're going to end up going 300 grand in the hole on this thing.

And I I If you want to put 125 in it and you believe in it, go do it. Go live your dream. I ain't got a problem with that. Uh what I've got a problem with is these absolute statements, and I've been in business my whole life, and there is no absolute 100% people are behind me. I

feel positive. It's an area I'm passionate about. None of that may matter. You may still lose all that money.

So, don't don't go into this 300 grand with all your positivity. If you want to put 125 in it, do it, and then I'd put the rest of it over in with a Smart Vestor Pro and some good mutual funds and with to where it's protected from this business risk and the gambling risk and and separate these things. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm just I'm going to call it like I heard it. It almost sounded like this business for you is some sort of retaliatory thing against him to kind of prove that you're doing your thing over here.

And my thing I would just say, draw a line in the sand and set some boundaries about how long you're going to endure this and to what point before you go and do the things that you need to do and make that [music] separation um so that he can get the help that he needs because allowing this to persist doesn't feel like the answer. It's It feels like it's breeding resentment from you.

And it kind of should.

Absolutely.

>> [music]

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Might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Steve in West Virginia. He says, "I'm 66 years old and have been retired for 5 years. I have 500,000 in retirement funds but I have two debts, 40,000 in credit card debt and 150,000 on my mortgage. I have

social security and pension income of 6,000 per month. Should I pay off my

debt to reduce my withdrawal each month from my 401k?" Um I wish I had a little bit more information but off the top, I would say yes because to have your mortgage paid

for, that's money that you're not going to have uh to take a draw on. And my guess, I don't know what your expenses are every month, but my guess is you probably are living okay on the $6,000 per month if you don't have a single debt in the world. No, make sure you Yeah, make sure you cut up the stupid credit cards and get on a budget so you don't spend more than you make again. Yeah, that's really what you need to do.

Yeah, and if it's it's if it's old debt and you're like I'm not I'm not on that lifestyle anymore, I just still have it laying around, absolutely paid off, but if it's current debt, then Dave is absolutely right about that.

Mike's in Virginia Beach. Hey Mike, how are you? Good, how are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Um my wife and her siblings inherited some money from her dad when he passed away several years back, and one of the siblings is the executor, and they said they're not going to tell one of the other siblings about it because they don't feel that they're financially responsible, but when they're just going to hold their money back from them. Oh.

I say that's not uh that ain't their call. You're exactly right. Okay, well, I'm smarter than I look sometimes. The the executor are the literal The reason they're called an executor is they're to execute.

Right. They're execute the what the will said. It didn't It didn't say you're uh a trust officer and you get to decide what's best. It said you execute what the will says. That's your only option.

Even if you don't like it, even if you don't agree with it. You have one option when you're the executor, and that's to execute what the will says. Otherwise, the people on the other side of it are going to sue your butt, and they're going to win because you violated your fiduciary responsibility.

What's your wife think?

Uh she agrees with me.

Okay. >> Now, you guys got your part, right?

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, I would tell the executor that they're being stupid and they're going to get sued. Well, I kind of did that. >> Yeah, well, then that's you've done your job and leave it alone. It's not your problem anymore. >> How much is it?

Uh you know, I think it's like 8 or 10,000 dollars each. Oh, it's not enough to mess with. But, here's the thing. The person finds out that they were not given the money they're supposed to be given, the person that is the executor is in deep kimchi legally.

Well, that's that's what I kind of figured. Yep, for sure.

>> [laughter] >> For sure, but there's nothing you can do about it. I mean, it's just these are [snorts] people doing whatever they want to do and that's what people do all the time. That's the problem.

When you pick the executor of your will, folks, you need to pick someone who's going to have the integrity to execute your will. Yeah, and and what is it you will to happen? That's right.

>> that means. They need to be Switzerland.

Yeah. Did you say deep kimchi? I just did. Okay, just [laughter] checking. Just make sure.

Things come up in the Rolodex. Nora is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Nora, what's up? Hi, Dave and Jade. It's exciting to talk to you today. I have an exciting question for you. I want to know should we buy a new car with cash or pay off our house? Ooh, my favorite type of question. Tell us more.

Okay, so we are in baby steps four, five, and six. We've been on the Ramsey plan for a solid like seven years. We have $60,000 saved for the vehicle in a high yield savings account. But, then when we were doing our annual budget meeting, we were also looking at our brokerage account, which is sitting at $35,000.

Okay. Our mortgage is approximately $83,000 left. Okay.

>> So, if we liquidate that brokerage account, we could pay off the home and be done. And still have an emergency fund?

Yeah, we do have $10,000 set aside for an emergency fund. >> That's a little small. amounts. That's a bit small. >> Is Yeah, is that what it would be if the house were gone?

Yeah, well, we use like the brokerage account as like a backup emergency fund >> that anymore in this scenario. We have we have $10,000 in our bank account right now as a >> I know. But if you use the brokerage account and you use the 60,000 from the car and you pay off the house, you're down to $10,000, which isn't much.

Well, we want to spend approximately 50,000 on a car.

No, are you listening to what I just He's saying he's saying if you pay the house off with that >> you pay the house off, you got nothing but 10 grand left.

Right? We also Well, we also have a $10,000 savings account that is just a side emergency fund. >> Oh, so you have $20,000.

>> would have Yeah, we would have 20 Understood. If the house is paid off. Okay, that's what I didn't understand. All right. Are you Are you Is your net worth over a million dollars?

It is, sir. And this is a brand new car.

Um new to us. Oh, it's not a brand new car. It might be a year old. Okay, that's not a brand new car.

It either is or it isn't. Okay. [laughter] All right. Now, um so wow.

I mean, how long would it take you You could do either. I don't think there's a wrong answer here. How long would it take you if you were to pay off the house? How quickly could you save back up $60,000 and buy the car you want?

We think by probably August. Oh, crap. I man, I I got to be honest. I There's not a wrong answer.

I'd probably pay the house off. >> Yeah, there is a wrong answer. Don't Don't buy the car.

You would? I would never buy that car. I mean, I wouldn't buy I wouldn't buy the car. I would pay the house off.

But I'm just saying, do you think she'd be Get it dead wrong? Yeah, cuz in 8 months you can go get the car anyway. >> THAT'S WHAT I SAID. SO GET the house [laughter] paid off.

What What are your priorities here? Your priorities are get the house paid off, not buy a stupid car. Stupid cars you can get. I got a stupid car today.

I don't mind getting a stupid car. Cars are fine, but they go down in value.

Yeah. But do you think that lightning would strike her down had she done the other way? >> Lightning doesn't strike you down on anything on this show, hardly.

Uh but then no, I'm I'm definitely paying the house off 100% Today. I paid

off today. And then I'd save like crazy and go buy the car that you want. And you you might even get a nicer car. >> Parking it in the driveway of a paid for house. Hello. No question that that's the order things ought to go down.

Definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely. So here's the thing.

And and I'm a car guy. I you know, I I've got owned a bunch of different vehicles here and there.

And um they all go down in value. Yeah. And so you're you know you can't put appreciating assets in the same sentence with the largest depreciating asset that we buy even if you've got a high net worth. But what sent you over the edge was the fact that they owed so little on the mortgage.

Yeah, it's simple. I mean if she owed 500,000 on the mortgage then we could have a different discussion. >> even 100. Well, let's see. My tipping point probably would have been like 250.

Yeah. I mean I just I The point is is that this is very doable very quickly.

And so it doesn't matter. Mhm. So do it the right way. >> Yes. I'm with you. And and let your actions reflect that you've got um an understanding of how these assets work. Right. >> Cuz 5 years from the from today that $50,000 car is worth 15.

Yes, and that's going to be painful. Hopefully you keep it for a very long time. >> from today that house will have doubled twice.

Yes. >> so I mean there's no question where I'm going with this. And it doesn't mean you never buy a car. I bought one today. Or literally. >> You bought a car today? >> today, yeah. What'd you get? I got the new Bronco Raptor. Look at you.

>> Yeah, so I just wanted one. But I'm not I'm not mad about cars. That's not the point. That's not the point. The point is they go down in value and they need to be a minor part of your [music] overall life.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Nathan and Megan are

with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hi Dave, doing well. Great to be here. Good to have you. Where do y'all live? We live in Woodstock, Georgia. Oh yeah, just down the road. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thank you. Good to have you guys. And how much debt have you paid off? We paid off $155,000

in just under 5 years. Good for you. And

your range of income during that time?

Starting income was 100,000 and ending

income was 145,000.

Very cool. What do y'all do for a living? So I work in technology. I manage a whole tech team in the convenience industry. Oh yeah. Yep. And I worked part-time in a credit department at a staffing company during that time. Okay, good. >> of debt was it? It was our mortgage.

>> [laughter] >> Look at them, weird people. I know.

Very cool. How much is this house worth?

About 450 now. Good for you guys.

And uh you've been putting money in your retirement all along, so how much is in that? About 300. All right, very good.

Almost millionaires now. >> That's right. Look at you guys. Wow.

Well, how old are you two? I'm 28. And I'm 29. So you guys started this in your early 20s. >> Yes. Our goal was to get it paid off before Nathan turned 30 in March.

>> And you did it.

Paid it off on Christmas Day, 2025.

That's awesome. So you must have Tell us the story. How do you guys be smart enough to do this at 22 years old? Um well, honestly, he listened to you since he was About 12 years old. So I grew up

and we didn't we didn't have TV, so as a teenager I couldn't go to bed early, so I'd turn on my clock radio to Dave Ramsey and I didn't quite get everything at the time of what you were saying, but I started picking up picking it up and then I mean it really just comes from my parents instilling hey, if you're going to accomplish anything you got to work for it. So then following your steps along the way, we did Financial Peace University right after we were married and just I mean worked as a team together.

Wow, very cool. Yep.

Yes. Yeah, and they were it was really just instilling if you want anything in life, you have to work for it. So that was what my parents gave me and then you gave me the tools to you know, us the tools to work together and accomplish this. We also bought a fixer-upper that

needed a lot of equity or a lot of sweat equity.

So that's what it used to look like and we worked really hard on it and it's in Woodstock which is where we wanted to grow up. One of the kids to grow up and

It doesn't even look like the same house. So that's where we live now. >> was the dream. Just put put our hard work into it and not just expecting things to come to us and working for what we wanted. >> Looks like it started with a chainsaw.

Yeah, that's right. Wow. Lots of poison ivy. >> [laughter] >> So the moment you bought it, you knew you were going to pay it off fast.

Like you already >> Yes. That was the whole idea. Yes, definitely. We wanted to attack it, you know.

>> So So Megan, I mean when you're dating a guy that at 12 years old is listening to a financial show [laughter] on talk or on talk radio before he goes to bed, you might be dating a nerd. I know. I I learned this a lot from him and then he got me on to you too and I truly he is a little bit of a nerd. >> sounds [laughter] like it sounds like he was an attractive nerd.

>> He was. Tall, dark and handsome.

very you know, it didn't take much convincing. Yes. >> [laughter] >> So and I truly I mean once I learned it too, once we did Financial Peace, I was all in as well. We were just trying to do it together and I think that's one of the keys too. Just doing it together.

Yeah, you guys should throw those pictures up again on YouTube in case someone is 23 years old and thinks it's impossible to buy a house.

You could buy that house looks like a jungle. Put it back up there. Looks like a dadgum jungle. Yeah. I mean that's the yeah. And you say it's worth 400 now?

450 now and and our neighborhood Woodstock sweet. Great area. Dave always says it's important to dream together.

So I was actually took us 2 years to convince this lady who was vacant to sell us the home and we would drive by and she would get annoyed at me and I go that's our home. See our home. And we we didn't even have it under contract yet, but Like every time we would drive by it. >> And you know following the principles of going hey we wanted it to we wanted a 15-year mortgage not more than 20% of our day income pay.

How did you get her to to sell it? Uh Well, honestly I was I was her friend for 2 years. She didn't know anyone else and I I honestly didn't think we were going to get it most of the time, but I said I just told her if whenever she wants to sell she'll think of us first and one day after 2 years she said all right I'm ready to sell. Yeah, we wrote her letters, drove to her house at a different residence and >> She wasn't it was it was vacant.

>> Yeah, it was vacant. We left her in a different place and we drove there.

got her phone number and they talked on the phone every month until she decided

to say Till she relented.

>> We're ready. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> I love this guy.

This is incredible. And of course you cash flowed all the all the upgrades you did inside and the outside.

>> you know I had some family help, but it was all us just working through it. We did gas, electrical, plumbing, we did the septic system and we did everything.

I just need a the America to hear this.

You completely all of that and paid off

in 5 years. Right. Yeah. You

26-year-olds that are whining I can't buy a house right now because rent is running the world. Oh kiss my butt.

These guys right here hold [laughter] their beer. Look at this. It's unbelievable. >> Yeah, tell them what they need to know because there's a lot of naysayers out there. Tell them what they need to know.

Absolutely. Dave you preach it. I I actually saw the bumper sticker over there and I I love it and it was pray like everything depends on God and work like everything depends on you. And that was us going into this. I tell everyone that will listen, I'm annoying, I'll get passionate about it, but I'm but you're the problem, you're the solution. Work hard. There is I can't stand anyone that says anything different, but there's more opportunity in America than there has ever been in any country >> for all of history. So, work for it.

It's easy to look at all the obstacles and say, "Hey, I can't do this." But roll up your sleeves and get to work. Work is underestimated and working together as a team, this is just helped us in our marriage and you know, now we have a home for our kids and we're just going to continue building the dream. Mic drop. You can pull that headset off and slam [laughter] it on the floor. No, don't. Don't. Don't. Don't do that. It looks expensive. Yes. I I I say to like

just um you know, eat at home and practical things like being content with what you have, not comparing yourself to the people around you and also just work in

side hustles. We both worked during this whole process. I was a stay-at-home mom, but also trying to help provide some

income during that time and Nathan worked really hard at his job just to wake work his way up, but also worked side hustles. So, do the things that are required to get to that point, but also just enjoy your life and be content with what you have um already. Well, I mean you're not even 30 years old. You have a paid for half million dollar house.

You've got You're well on your way to being millionaires within the next probably 36 months or so. Well, don't worry the market's moving and everything's happening.

Congratulations. I'm very proud of you.

I know your parents are proud of you.

Uh your children you you're heroes. You have changed your family tree. So, your secret is work at it and stick together.

Yeah, and just don't take no for an answer, you know? If someone tells you no, just figure another way to to do it.

Yeah. There's always another way.

Another way to get it done. Wow. That's amazing. I have one more question.

When you went to buy this house, How did you set your expectations? Because a lot of people would have seen that before you renovated and said, "That's not That's a shack. I'm not going to spend my money on that." How How did you know to do that? Well, great question.

I mean, my whole life it's been What are people We're so wealthy as a country, people throw away great things that we can work hard and and make beautiful. So, going into it, it was horrible looking on the inside, but we were just looking and we had talked about it.

What can't we change? Let's make sure that's good. We can work hard on everything else and change that.

>> Change some paint colors, change the flooring, just kind of see past that stuff on the outside and just look at the beauty on the inside and we There were no mold issues, no

like flooring foundation issues. Like, we were very blessed. God blessed us with this home, too. Like, we >> [gasps] >> were put in all the right situations where we were like, "This is not just coincidental." Good guys. Well done. All right, bring the kiddos up. Let's get their names and ages. >> are they cute. They are >> [laughter] >> cute, cute, cute. Oh, there's more of them than I thought. Yes. They just keep coming. Yes. We paid it off when he was 10 DAYS OLD.

WHAT A GUY. YES, baby James. So, what's his name? This is James. He's 2 months now. >> and the girls? This is Emmy. She's 5 and then Lilly is 2. All right. You guys are Your parents are heroes. You don't even know it yet. You're too young, but someday you'll know they're the ones that changed the family tree. Way to go.

All right, Nathan and Megan, count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

155,000 paid off in 5 years making 140.

Almost Baby Steps millionaires already at 30 years old. Let's hear it. Three,

TWO, ONE.

>> WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

>> [cheering]

>> WOW. I LOVE IT. I LOVE IT.

WOW. >> Those kids are cute. >> They are. I love it. [music] That's amazing, Dave.

Wow. >> Amazing. Oh, it can't be done. We're all going to die. Not No, not if you're Nathan and Megan. They got it figured out, baby.

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>> [music]

>> Mark is in [music] Mobile, Alabama. Hey Mark, how are you?

Doing good. How about you, Mr. Ramsey?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I work offshore and I make about

$90,000 a year and I'm gone 20 days

out of the month and I'm home for 10 and my wife would love me home and I'd also love to be home, too.

Cuz later we'd also like to maybe start having kids and starting having a family. We are on baby step two and just wondering what y'all would think about that if I need to stay on the boat till we get baby step two paid off or would it still

be okay to come home?

I mean, gosh, that's a long time to be >> when you How long you going to be gone?

I mean, how how much debt do you How much debt do you have and how are you How quick will you get paid off?

So, we had $23,000 in consumer debt beside our house.

I'll bring home $5,800.

Our bills is $3,600 roughly and then we

have $2,100 left over that we could put towards that.

Okay, so you'll be debt free in like 10 months. Except your house.

>> Okay. >> Yes, sir. So, um and you make 90 and you're only coming home with 5,800.

There's something wrong with that. Where's all that money going? That's a lot of That's holding >> 90 is before taxes and Yeah.

I do have uh insurances through work and

I also have a life insurance policy through work that I took out a little bit extra. I'm in the process of getting

rid of that life insurance policy and going to term life. Good.

>> Okay. Okay, and that'll cut That'll increase your take-home pay as well.

What about your wife? What's she doing?

Uh she is not doing anything right now.

Um she is in the process of

going to the post office so about March or April she will be working at the post office. And what will that bring monthly?

And yearly? Uh roughly 3,000 to 3,500 dollars a month.

Okay. So you're going to cut your pay by 30 or

40,000 and she's going to increase hers by 30 or 40,000 by you coming off the boat. Is that right?

Yes, sir. You got a job lined up if you did that?

Um I don't have a job lined up right now. I have been looking at different jobs. I just wanted to get someone's opinion on what they would do if they would finish paying that off or I mean if you can line something up that that's in line with when she starts working, I would do that in two seconds. Yeah, your your household is going to have the same money coming in. Agreed?

Yes, sir. Okay. I mean you're going to get something that's going to not going to pay as much as a boat, but you're going to get something. I mean you need to go search out the job market and figure out what you can land. You might land something almost as much as you're getting paid offshore. I don't think so, but you might.

Um Yes, sir. Well, the job I'm looking at now it starts out at 40,000 a year

and then within 2 years you can be bumped up to 70 to 80,000. Doing what?

>> So there is margin being a steel mill worker in Mobile.

Okay. All right.

Um Well, here's the thing. We're not really cutting your income from 90 to 40.

We're really your household income is going to be the same because she's going to go to work and make up the difference. Is that a correct statement?

Yes, sir. Yeah, based on that I'm coming home.

Yes, sir. And take the steel mill job and let's get started because you're going to be out of debt in the same time as if she didn't work and you stayed on the boat. See?

Yes, sir. You still You still ought to be able to get out of debt in 8 or 10 months. And not eat No eating out. Both of you take extra jobs. Do everything you can.

And you're still going to be home more doing that than you would have been on the on the rig and offshore. And yeah, I

think I am coming home. Based on all of this. But if the only part of the equation was I'm just simply going to cut my income in half, then I might stay 10 more months and knock it out. >> months.

Yeah. I might stay another 6 months and knock it out. Whatever. But, you know, the fact that she's going to be making up some of the difference, you're taking a job that's going to escalate in income over the next couple of years a lot, and you can pick up extra jobs, and you can get on the EveryDollar budget and tighten up.

I put all of that in there. Yeah, I'd I'd want to come home.

Most of the time it's a 5-day thing or a 2-day thing or something like that. I'm out and back. And that's not nearly as strenuous as being gone from the family like an over-the-road truck driver or military being deployed or working offshore like this. >> That's right. Um and so But you you know, you can make some money. And And you know, when uh when

the Iraqi war, for instance, was wrapping up, there was a lot of civilian positions where people could go over there for 6 months or 8 months and make two or three hundred grand Wow.

>> doing stuff. And uh people were doing that for a short period of time to you know, to leapfrog forward. And that I might be willing to do something like that if I was paying a price to win. But But I got to see the end to it. That's right. >> And uh so yeah, I think I would do that.

I think I would do that. Yeah, she really is the key to this equation. Her working is the key to all of this.

>> Exactly. [laughter] Exactly. And so if she You guys start having kids, she doesn't need to quit unless your income has come up. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Yeah, you're going to have to you're going to manage that and keep all that stuff tied in there together. Sarah is with us in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi Sarah, how are you?

Good. Thanks Dave and Jade for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

I recently became guardian of my dad. He

has dementia. >> Uh-huh. Sorry. >> And we have moved him into a senior apartment. [clears throat] >> Uh-huh. My question is about his finances. I'm not sure what to do with everything that he has. Trying to honor what he has done and saved and worked

for. But also what to do moving forward with all of his finances. We're going to sell his house. Uh-huh. So I'm not sure what to do with those funds. Uh-huh.

Well, we would just manage it for his good. Agreed?

Yes. Now, does he have bills that need to be paid?

Yes. How much debt does he have?

No debt. Oh. That's good.

>> So the only bills are this assisted living situation.

Yeah, it's it's not a problem of not enough money. It's I'm not sure what to do with all of his money. Okay. Well, what will happen when you sell the house, how much will you have?

About 400,000. >> And how much do you have now in other accounts?

He's got 355,000 in an IRA. Uh-huh. 369,000

in a Roth. Uh-huh.

177,000 in a non-retirement. Uh-huh.

And those are all treated with the same financial um institution. Okay. And then

in a bank, he's got 315,000

dollars, which I know I should move some of that, but I don't know what to do with it. >> So he's got like he's got like a million and a half dollars. So he's in really good shape. Way to go, Dad. Yes. Yeah.

>> Good. And uh and you have full power of attorney?

Um guardianship, [clears throat] which is above power of attorney. >> Right. But I mean, you've got the ability to do with this as you will for his benefit. >> Yes.

Yeah. Correct. >> So, I would get on RamseySolutions.com and click on and sit and talk to one of the SmartVestor Pro financial advisors that we have endorsed. They don't work for us, but they have the heart of a teacher and say, "I've got this I've got this million and a half dollars.

put it in a situation where it's very easy to manage, and um without taking a

big huge boatload of risk. And just sit there and talk to them, and let their job is to teach you how to make these decisions on behalf of your dad.

Is it smarter to separate some of those

funds and put them in two different financial places, or is it better to keep it all I I would I would have it in one.

Okay. Yeah, and just because and and but you're making the decision of where it goes. So, you could have it in several different mutual funds with one financial advisor.

Okay. But you don't need two advisors.

That's you're going to get you're going to get crossed up. And um you you know, you need to get someone, but you're not doing what they say to do. They are teaching you, and they do

what you say to do.

Okay. That's how we're going to approach this. It's your job, and they're there to help you do your job. We're not We're not looking for a babysitter, a nanny. This is not a boarding school for money.

You're still the [music] parent. Very good.

>> [music]

[snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios. Jade

Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Tina is with us in Minneapolis. Hi Tina, how are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I kind of got myself in a pickle.

Uh-oh.

I'm going to try and get through with this. And but it's it's so frustrating.

It's really hard.

Um my husband passed away about 4 years ago. He was in a nursing home for about 4 years before that. That ate up any

money that we had saved. Um it was $10,000 a month to have him there.

Um and then that the um he was on what's called Medicaid in Iowa. And now they're trying to sue me for $200,000

for his uh nursing home care. They want me reimbursed. Why?

>> So, the only thing I had that they um that's just how Is it because they didn't think you qualified? It turned out you didn't qualify? >> No. Um no, this is part of how the Medicaid It's a state insurance and they want their money back. They don't tell you that when you sign up for it. Um No, that's not how Medicaid works, honey.

You're confused. >> Well, that's what the state has >> No, Medicaid is not Medicaid is administered by the state. It's a federal program and it's welfare for poor people. And if you go to a nursing home and you qualify based on your assets and your income, Medicaid pays for it. And they don't get the money and they don't get the money back.

Yeah, well, they keep sending me bills saying I owe $200,000. So, But why? Why

do they think you owe $200,000?

For his his nursing home care. No, honey, if he qualified for Medicaid, he doesn't owe the $200,000. They're wanting it back cuz they think he didn't qualify. They think you have too much in money in income or assets.

Well, he was on disability and I was on disability, so Come then you need to get an attorney to look at this and negotiate with Medicaid cuz Medicaid's gotten some bad information, it sounds like. But you don't automatically They don't just automatically sue everybody that goes into nursing home on Medicaid. That's not how it works.

Well, it's it was about a month after he passed away, I got this bill in the mail for $200,000. >> to you need to talk to an attorney about that. Now, what's the other thing that we can help you with?

Well, um I sold the house because I just wasn't going to let them take that away from me because, you know, when I What they said is they can't come after me until I'm gone and passed away, and they were going to take whatever I owned as payment.

And the house was too much for me anyway. Um I'm almost 60, so I sold it

and I got, you know, it's paid for, so the money was mine and I put it away in a in a trust account.

Um and I had my daughter as trustee. She trusted her completely. She never did anything wrong with it.

But unfortunately, um when people realized I had the money, then all of the handouts came, and can you help me? Can you help me? Can you help me?

And unfortunately, I have a giving heart, and so I helped them all expecting to get paid back. They all promised to get it paid back.

Um and now all I get is excuses to get it paid back when I'm financially struggling. So, you gave away how much money?

$69,000. Um, with uh

So, what are you living on now? Are you living on disability now? Yeah, disability and uh widow pay. What's the nature of your disability?

Um, I have anxiety and panic attacks.

So, um, like stroke level panic attacks. Um,

um, they they they they look like I'm having a heart attack. They're >> Yeah. Are you being treated for all of that? Um, yeah, I just can't work. Um,

I I'm even I went back to school to do

billing and coding. I've been medical for 20 plus years and somebody else paid for me to go back to school.

So, I'm taking that advantage so I can try to get a job working from home.

But, unfortunately, the catch-22 is they want you to have 3 years experience before they'll hire you to work remote.

Yeah. So, um, uh what what are you able to live on your disability income?

Um, well, I was until um, I mean, I got

found a cheaper apartment. I was in an apartment that was like $875 a month plus utilities and I found another one that's half of that. Good.

So, are you able to live on your disability now?

Well, I am except for the debt that I've accumulated by living in that more expensive Oh, how much debt did you run up?

Um, well, I was working and I bought a car because I needed a dependable vehicle. So, I owe 20 grand on it and then I got two credit cards.

>> Mhm. Where's the car?

The car's in my garage right now. I I can't even sell it. It's It's not worth what I owe on it. >> Yeah, but it is worth something and you could get rid of it and cut most of that debt away.

Cuz you're living on you're living on nothing. You can't afford a $21,000 car in your garage, hon.

Right. >> That's got to be solved.

I was planning on getting another job, but it just seems like I'm just running into brick walls. Yeah. And I got $20,000 Well, the first thing we've got to do is is is quit digging the hole, okay? Right.

So, yeah, you need an attorney to represent you and keep Medicaid off of you. Yeah. Um you need to start talking to your relatives about trying to get some of your money back. I don't think you'll ever see any of it again.

I think that's gone. >> either. Um that was a uh obviously a huge mistake. You were not in a position to be generous, regardless of what your heart was telling you.

And um you you were in a situation that you needed generosity, not the other way around. >> Right. Right. And so, um yeah, I I think um and then you guys start talking about how we can get a $5,000 car and get rid of this $21,000 car cuz you can't afford it.

And so, start making some moves in that regard. You haven't hit a brick wall.

Um and then you step into something. You step into I give away $51,000 or I buy a $21,000 car I can't afford. And see, there's a $70,000 swing right there.

Yes. Just in this story. And if we had that $70,000 back, you'd be in a completely different scenario.

Um and you know, you you give an attorney five grand and they'll make the uh the Medicaid thing go away. I hope. I hope you I hope he was qualified to go into a Medicaid nursing home. It looks like unless somebody else was supposed to be responsible for it.

So, if you received any type of settlement, they can come back. If he was injured in any kind of accident and somebody else's insurance should have paid, they can pay for it up front and then it want that money back. So, I would do due diligence on that. We don't know any of the nature surrounding him going into uh that facility, but you should look into that and find out and make sure there is nothing on your end that might have uh triggered that.

provides nursing home for free and you

don't have to pay it back for people that are certifiably poor.

>> That's right. It's a It's a welfare program. And there's no They don't automatically come and want the money back. So, uh the fact that they've done that tells me that they believe something that's not true or or he didn't qualify. Yeah.

And you guys took care from the welfare system that you shouldn't have. And then, if that's the case, you got a mess. But hopefully that's not the case. Hopefully there's just some confusion about the way the paperwork was filled out and this thing can be made to go away. And that's most of the time what it is when you're dealing with these bureaucrats. That's how the deal works. So, just keep chipping away at the different parts of this, Tina, and I think you can make your way through it.

>> [music]

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>> If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back, March 14th through 21, 2027.

Join the Ramsey personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Key, Cozumel, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman on the ultimate debt-free vacation. Cabins will

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>> [music]

>> Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, you can head over to the website and use Ask Ramsey.

Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's

built and trained on proven Ramsey

principles. You'll get an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. Might be a little nicer. Ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on a podcast or on YouTube. Folks, if you're

debt-free, the Live Like No One Else Cruise is your chance to celebrate. Hang out with us. I'm going to be there. All the Ramsey Solution All the Ramsey personalities are going to be there. Sharon will be with us. We've got new sessions on building wealth, live episodes of our shows, and the world large world's largest debt-free scream on the Live Like No One Else Cruise. This is premium cruise line, the best of

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here Here go. Salt Lake City is with us.

Tiffany's calling. Hey, Tiffany.

Hey Dave. Hi Jade. How are you guys?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

Oh, first of all, I'm so nervous. So, um bear with me. Um I can feel my heart pounding in my ear. Okay. You're doing [laughter] good. We've never lost a patient. You're going to make it.

Oh my, I hope I'm not going to be the first. Um well,

first of all, thank you. I'm so honored to talk to you guys. Um you are part of my I don't know. You became part of my life. I listen to you guys. You're kind of the dad that, you know, I wish I would have. And And Jade, you're like such a badass sister. Um I just I You guys are

amazing. >> Thank you, friend. >> Um We're glad you're here.

Okay, so here's my little dilemma. How do I get strategically strategically?

Sorry, English is my second language.

I'm actually from a different country, Europe. Um Um how do I get strategically strategically? Oh lord, you guys know what I mean. Um >> Strategically? Thank you. >> [laughter] >> Hey, it's just the whole world is listening. That's fine. Um

My family have loaned me so far

two one two point one million dollars.

Um My husband and I, we owned two companies. We have a framing company, steel framing company, where we do regular framing for um residential reconstruction and the roof trusses. And we do have a construction

company where we actually build the spec homes. Do you make money?

At the point, not. Um we finally started making some money, or at least it looks better um on paper, I guess.

Um It took us about two years to to

everything started in 2022. Um And got 1.2 million dollars from a family member to to to to start a

company where we got the machines to do those framings. They come in steel coils and we basically just, you know, form them and and build whatever you need. Um 2023, we got another $200,000 and in

2024, we got another $500,000.

Um Our family are new developers as well, so they bought a bunch of land um over 750 acres

and started developing or just finished their first development um and

we're going to be able to build 30 homes out of 50.

And that's kind of why we risked it to get in that whole dilemma. My issue here is um besides that we keep getting loans. I got another $200,000 from another family member.

And right now we're in the process of applying for an first official loan from a bank because we just keep running out of money. We self-finance-ish, I would say. Self-finance the spec homes, so every

penny that we make, we put it into the homes, we sell it, and then that profit

we immediately take into the next um house. >> Okay, so this is not working.

Even if you sold Even if you did 50 of the 50 homes, would this make you right side up? No. At some point that's the

hope. No.

But I have another You can't just keep borrowing money because you can't seem to make money.

Well, and here comes another big issue.

Um I I do the books for our company and um

I just found out that in 2025, my husband started day trading without my knowledge. And so he tanked over $113,000.

I spoke to him last week about it and

he said, "Yeah, he he messed up. He was hoping to make fast money because nothing really worked out last year." And um now there's $80 left. Wait.

So um how how the hell do how do I

I need I need help to know

how do we get out of the mess? And besides that, we have a 2-year-old 4-year-old, of course, on top of that.

>> So first thing is is that if he ever comes close to day trading again, you can tell him that he's no longer your husband.

There's too much stress here and that is a breach of trust. He lied to you and he stole the money.

Yep, I told him that too. I told him that >> This is not okay. This is not okay. This is really crooked, bad stuff for anybody

to do to their spouse. Number one.

Number two. You guys need to sit down and look at this business model and figure out when you're going to start making money and it needs to be tomorrow.

You guys need to sell some stuff off.

You need to quit trying to do so dadgum much. Y'all Y'all haven't made anything yet. All you've done is borrow money and waste it.

Yeah, I mean, at least not enough. Like on on papers, like some of the things that we did >> no such thing as on paper. If on paper you made money, you would have some money.

Like in 2024, we made um $850,000

gross. >> Where did it go?

In the other homes. And then again, the other homes and then So you're buying these home You're building these homes and you're financing them and carrying the paper?

Oh, no. >> No, we're building them. I know. If you build them, then don't you sell them?

Yes, we do. So, you if you put in your $50,000 in homes and build them, don't you get a million and a half out when you sell them?

Well, you Those are like smaller homes, so we're like doing usually between 400 and 500. >> Okay, but I mean, aren't you getting the money back out? Don't you turn around sell the house? If you build a house, don't you turn around sell it, make money? That's how most builders do it.

Yep, and I mean >> So, you should be making money. Where's all the stinking money going? You didn't put it in the house and then it disappeared. You put it in the house and then you turn around sold the house. You said before that it was broken into two businesses. I wonder if the construction business is the problem and you need to just focus on the steel framing.

Or the other way around.

And the overhead costs are just ridiculous. We pay over $25,000

um almost a month. >> don't know if you know what profit is.

Do you know what profit is?

Hello from Yasmine. Okay. You need to have your income minus your outgo equals

your profits. And and you haven't made money cuz all you've done is borrow $2 million and you have no money. So, you don't have any profits on paper or otherwise. Cuz if you have profit on paper, honey, you have money in the bank. There's no on paper profit. There's no such thing.

It it you're either if if my paper says I have a profit, I need to look over in the checking account and see the stinking money there. That's how this works. So, if you put $400,000 into a

house and you sell it for $500,000,

you should got only get your 400 back, you should get an extra 100 back. So, there should be 500 laying over there after that house sells. That's how this works.

And so, y'all suck at this.

You need to get in there and get somebody to come alongside you and figure out how to run these businesses or you need to sell them and pay your family back and go get some jobs.

And if he ever goes near a day trading keyboard again, that's gone, man. That's the end of that. That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. But, y'all been running this without making a profit for 4 years, and that's just dumb. You got to figure this out. You got to get You got to turn this thing around or get out of the business.

You cannot keep borrow your way into profitability. That's an impossibility.

>> [music]

>> How many times have you started January saying, "This is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control." But, then months go by and you still feel broke. You work too hard to keep living like that. Look, there's only one way to move the needle on your finances this year. You've got to have a plan.

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Well, we love debt-free screams. We love them in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on our debt-free stage. We super love them when it's one of our Ramsey team members. T.J. is with us here with his wife Alice, and he's a project manager on the EveryDollar team. Been with us about a year and uh they get to come in here and do their debt-free scream.

Welcome, guys. Thank you.

>> Good to have you. How nerve-racking is this? >> [sighs] >> It's we're here.

>> [laughter] >> And it's finally real. Uh I love it. How much have you paid off? $165,000.

I love it. How long did that take? 15

months. >> Awesome. Okay, and you've been here about a year, so you started on it before. How long y'all been married?

1 year and 8 months. Oh, wow. So moving

here, getting married, starting the debt-free journey all in the last 2 years. Yep. >> Yes. Wow. Where'd you move from?

Central Illinois, but we're originally from the Chicagoland. Okay. All right.

So you got married and Did you come to Nashville to take the Ramsey job? >> Yep. Okay. >> [laughter] >> A project manager at EveryDollar. Well, that's awesome. So you people out there that are using EveryDollar to get out of debt, it's all TJ's fault.

>> [laughter] >> All of the things that are awesome about it, it's all TJ's fault. He's one of the many talented folks we got on that team, really really working on this. So what kind of debt was the $165,000?

Yeah, it was 107 in student loans.

>> Mhm. And then 58 in new cars. This is before learning about Ramsey. Right.

Got you. Okay. Very cool. How's it feel to be free?

Liberating. >> [laughter] >> Liberating, peaceful. It's the best sleep we've ever got Oh, I've gotten in the past 2 years was >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> uh October 30th when we made our final payment.

>> Mhm. Uh filled in the rest of that. I saw the thermometer that we had up there. Uh filling that in, calling those that supported us all along the way and just being able to cheer it.

So how did the order of events go about learning about Yeah. doing the Ramsey stuff, coming to work here, getting married, all that.

So we got the Total Money Makeover as a

a gift. >> Okay. >> It was not on our registry. We were not familiar. It seldom is.

>> [laughter] >> So, TJ read the book about three times and then he started on this journey to try to coerce me into reading it. Um he

was saying that it's Bible-based, which really resonated with me. And then he was like, "Dave's really funny." Which I was like, "Hmm, let me see for myself."

And I loved it. We had a conversation

where we had combined our finances after getting married and realized that we had $2,800 of minimum payments and we didn't

feel like we were able to really live, even though we had two pretty good incomes. Mhm. Very cool. What do you do?

I'm a nurse. Awesome. Very cool. Good.

Yeah, that is two good incomes. Excellent. Well done, y'all. Yeah. Okay.

So, you're you get married, you get the book, and you get on the same page, and then how does he end up with this job?

That's weird. >> Mhm. Well, it all came down to we were Dave-ish.

Around Thanksgiving, I got to talk to my Uncle Matt and Aunt Gina, who were the ones that gifted us Total Money Makeover. And we're like, "We're doing it. We're doing it." And they were like, "Are you really doing it?" >> Ooh. >> And we were like, "Well, we have 20,000 in savings while we're trying to pay down the debts.

We, you know, we paid for our wedding and anything that was a gift, we just threw at debt." And I'm like, "That felt good. Let's keep going." And they were like, "Hey, check out their website for additional resources." And I was like, "Okay, cool." So, I started looking around. I saw there was a careers page.

Let's see what this is all about." I saw some jobs. I was like, "I could probably do that." I applied.

>> [laughter] >> Previous role, I applied for hundreds of jobs and then I eventually got my one. I was like, "All right, Lord. If you open up the open up the doors for me, I'm going to continue to walk through them." And however, that was a 12 steps to get here. >> [laughter] >> Yeah.

>> A hiring process. >> Yeah. Uh but, you know, it really felt like God called me here. Uh able to serve, be able to be here and help spread hope to other people.

That's really awesome.

We did. We did. We bought a king-size bed. >> Yay! >> And adjustable bases. Best sleep of my life.

>> Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's exactly right. >> I thought he was sleeping better because he got out of bed. >> too. But, they got a new mattress.

>> a new mattress is [laughter] what it was. That's great. >> That's excellent. Very cool. All right.

So, what advice do you have? What do you tell people when they say, "How did you do that? How do you pay off 165,000

newly married in 15 months?" That's over $10,000 a month. Yeah. Uh God's blessings, for sure. Um everything kind of had to come right together. We wrote down uh October of uh 2025. And I When I

first When we were writing that, I'm like, "Uh everything is going to have to come out right in order for this to happen." And God's blessings allowed us to be there. Uh new opportunity. She was travel nursing. Mhm. Good money. Which is where a lot of all of that came from.

>> Yeah, that's good money. >> And uh it took a lot of sacrifice. I mean, I had to I had to move down here.

And I was here for about a month and a half before she got to come down. Oh, that is a big sacrifice. So, she was doing some roles that were about an hour and a half away. So, a lot long commute.

And uh I appreciate all the sacrifices that we were able to make, both of us taking up multiple jobs to be able to get there. Uh and just want to be an inspiration to others. So. >> Yeah.

So, uh working here can be a mixed blessing because everybody's like everybody's doing this. You know, it's like the positive peer pressure. But, it's also pressure. Mhm.

I mean, was it helpful to have your team you know, all up in your business or uh you know, your buddies cheering you on or uh was was that a back I mean, they're all standing out there. You better be nice. But, um I mean, was is it helpful to be in the this kind of an environment when you're doing it or not? It can I think it could work against you.

Yeah. Um at least I can tell my side. It's been extremely It's a support system. Um if we didn't believe in it, then yes, I I I think it'd be a whole lot of different pressure.

They're like, "Oh, I don't really want to do it." But, we believed in it. We knew that it was going to be good for us. Changing our family tree, going through Financial Peace University, really seeing the whole scope of where your life can change, and being able to use every dollar to keep us on track and on budget. >> Um, a lot of it was >> It was a blessing for us because as far as our friends and family, it's still kind of a mixed bag as far as, you know, their thoughts on our journey.

So, we committed to it.

Um, so it ultimately was such a blessing. Yeah. Cool. Very cool. Any setbacks on the way?

Just right after we got out of it.

Um, I had to we had some I had some health stuff that came up. So, we got debt-free, and then we were able to cash flow 10K in medical expenses and uh >> Wow. Ooh. Now we're tackling on taxes, but we're able to cash flow it all. Um, car repairs and all that, we were able to cash flow it as we went. So.

>> Um. Well, it's about time to celebrate with some of it. Oh my gosh. Yes, indeed. >> Enough already. So, you're working on an EveryDollar you're project manager on EveryDollar.

The journey and now the freedom has to

affect how you look at all those projects.

Yeah. Um, just I mean, you're not agnostic anymore. This is you're in it. >> You're able to just focus. It's It's being able to say, okay, this I I'm I'm product of this, you know. I believed in it. It makes it that much more motivating to be able to come in every single day, come in to work knowing that I made a difference not only for my myself, but for everyone outside of these walls, which I know we preach very dearly here.

Mhm. Um, it's truly inspiring. It's just

so nice to be a part of it, something that you believe in, and you're able to say, I'm I'm affecting this. I'm changing this. I'm trying to make this better. I'm trying to make it easier to work the Ramsey plan. Yeah. And that's

all the motivation you need. Amen. Amen.

I'm proud of y'all. >> Yeah, excellent job. Well done, and the team's out here gathered, and none of them are working. They're all here to cheer you on. [laughter] And this is great. I'm glad they're here to cheer you on. It's very, very cool. Congratulations, you two. Thank you.

>> It's very well done. All right, we don't ask when a team member's on, we don't ask their household income because all their friends are standing around and that's not fair. But they did pay off $165,000

in 15 months. Count it down. Let's hear

a debt-free scream.

Three, two, ONE. WE'RE DEBT-FREE.

>> [screaming]

>> THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. Love it. Man.

You know, I can't imagine

coming to work in a place like this right after I got married. The place I went to work right after I got married was bad.

>> [laughter] >> I mean, lucky for them it's great cuz now you're submerged by everything you need to get off on the right foot financially. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's like you don't have a choice around here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, well, you're on stage this morning staff meeting doing walk the talk. >> Oh, yeah. >> We have a whole system here where we're not being hypocrites. The people that work here need to be doing the stuff we teach, you know? Hello. >> 100% 100%.

>> The non-hypocrite system walk the talk, [laughter] right? On your honor, that's right. Yeah, and these guys they they did it. I'm so proud of $165,000

paid >> it. 15 months. Man, let's get it done.

Get her done.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey good folks, Dr. John Delony here.

Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So, guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers.

That's ramseysolutions.com/careers.

Our scripture of the day is 1 Corinthians 15:58. Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm.

Let nothing move you.

Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Thomas Sowell said, "There are people who go through the motions and people who get the job done." It's amazing how much work you can accomplish just by hiring the latter and firing the former.

Amen.

>> [laughter] >> Charlie is with us in Cleveland, Ohio.

Hey Charlie, how are you?

Better than I deserve. How are you, Dave? >> Just the same. What's up?

Yeah, so my wife and I, we have two young kids and this month we just got debt free. So, we paid off the mortgage.

>> Wow. Good for you.

>> Thank you. Thank you. So, the question

is So, I I have a pretty good job. My wife, she stays home.

My dad, uh he is in his uh 70s. He's

still working.

Uh partly because maybe it's years of uh

poor financial decisions. So, he cannot

retire because he he has to continue to

financially support uh other family members, adult family members in the family >> why? overseas.

Um and uh so, I'm a bit torn uh because I I

I don't have any that I can help uh but I also don't want to continue to encourage bad behaviors.

Um so, I'm kind of torn apart and and seeking some advice here. >> what do you make?

200,000. Wow, good for you.

When you >> what is it you're being torn about? What do What is it that you're at you're being asked to do or that you're doing?

Um I want my dad to be able to enjoy

uh retirement life. Yeah, but he chose to give all his money to somebody overseas.

Uh well, he he lives overseas, so he doesn't live here in the States. We are immigrants. Okay, from which country?

Korea. Okay. All right. And so, he lives overseas and he's 70 years old and he doesn't he has the money to support himself, but he doesn't because he gives it to other family members.

Correct. >> Okay. All right.

What's the situation with the other family members? Are they ill? Are they unable to work? Can he stop doing that today or is the damage completely done?

Well, I I see it's a multi-fold, right?

So, you know, some of the family member he support them uh just to help them with their lifestyle choices and some of the family members they chose uh not to work uh

because uh you know, some of the the the poor choices they made in the past, so that makes them makes it very difficult for them to find jobs. So, basically my dad has been paying for everything, you know, for as long as I >> happen if he couldn't?

That's the big question. So, we don't know. He he he he makes So, do you give your dad money?

Huh? Are you being asked to give your father money so that he can work and give them money? >> He He makes good money, but I I'm

worried he probably doesn't have enough saved for his old >> What's the equivalent? Give us an equivalent in US dollars of what he makes over there.

Oh, he makes $250,000.

And he's 70 years old. >> Every month. Okay, [snorts] so let me stop. What's the problem?

The problem is he gives all of his money away and he's going to retire with nothing and ask you to get to help him.

Is that the problem?

The the problem is, you know, I don't know if that's going to make the problem worse because I'm I'm I'm worried that if I give them the the money, the money will just go through other family members. >> No, I I wouldn't give him anything. I'm just asking. You today you're not giving him anything, so there's not a problem other than you're observing that in the future there's getting ready to be something happening, right?

Correct. I'm anticipating.

>> Yeah, that that's what I'm trying to figure out. Okay. All right, so what you're anticipating is is that he's going to run out of the ability to work and not have any money cuz he's given all of his away.

Yes. Now, at that point you can decide how much you want to help him.

I mean, and you you'll have the money, too. You make 600,000.

Uh but we're not going to help him to the tune that he has enough to help everybody else, only to the tune that he has enough to help himself. I'm guessing

because I I I'm a redneck hillbilly and I don't know these things, but I'm guessing that part of this might be cultural.

It is very cultural. >> Yeah, Because I mean in uh um you know, in the Latino world for instance, uh it's very normal to have uh a a more of a family

obligation to support parents than we would have in uh a typical gringo culture, right? Uh my hillbilly culture, you know, you're not required to do that. Puritan ethics, so to speak, you're not required to do that, right?

But in an Asian culture where you're talking about or the Latino culture, it's more normalized to be asked to

expected to and you've grown up with it your whole life. It's integrated into your DNA that that this is how things are done. Is that correct?

Yeah, I that's 100% correct.

>> I'm thinking that may lend itself to why he's giving all of his money away as well. Even though someone in my seat would look at that and go, "Why are you doing that?" But but and the answer is it's a cultural difference.

Um to do that. It doesn't make it smart, doesn't make it dumb, it's just an explanation, right? So, mathematically, we can all agree it's dumb, but there's a reason that he's doing it. It's not just straight-up irresponsibility.

Uh although it is intertwined into this cultural icon. So, um yeah, I I you know, I think I'd talk to him about it if he'll listen, but I bet he doesn't. And just say, "Dad, you know, you need to be aware that when you are broke, I will be helping you only with food and shelter, not with enough to uh uh for you to further on your giving of these other people. So, these other people, when you run out of gas and aren't able to work, are going to be on their own.

And they should know that now because I'm not going to be held uh to this standard. I think it's okay to go ahead and communicate that, but I don't think it's going to change what's going to occur. What's going to occur is what you expect. I think that's exactly what's going to happen. Do you, Jade? I do. I think he's 70 years old and he's been making this decision for a long time and it would be a miracle if he

stopped today. >> he's old school within that culture

and he's he's duty-bound.

>> Yep. Yep. >> And going to follow through on his duty to take care of them no matter how irresponsible or you know, bad decisions they've been making. He's going to do it anyway, I think. Don't you, Charlie? You agree with that?

I agree. I agree 100%. I tried to have a conversation 10 years ago. It really go anywhere.

So, I decided to focus on my own and then try to get that free and protect the family, you know. The hard part for you, Charlie, is holding going to be to hold that boundary when the time comes because you're likely going to feel guilty and all these other things, but it wasn't your you didn't make the choice, right? He did and that's the thing that you'll have to remind yourself of many, many times. And you'll be able to help him to a reasonable degree but not an unreasonable degree and they and it's not going to be it's not going to make everybody happy.

No one in the end of the story is going to be thrilled with the outcome.

And so, that's the thing.

So, not accounting for cultural differences

and and you have to account for that.

So, it's it's not fair to say that, but you just folks, you need to plan to not be a burden on your children.

Yeah, you do. And you you said it exactly right, you know, it might be a reason for a behavior, but it doesn't make it right or good. >> That's true. >> In the same way that Charlie was able to look at that and go, "That doesn't make sense." Yeah.

Yeah, and he comes he comes out of that.

Comes right straight out of that. So, So, >> Yeah, you just got to go, um, no. Yeah, you can't. Don't park your brain in here.

>> we're not going to participate in that. It doesn't make sense. And, uh, I've learned a better way. Yes.

And that can happen. You can learn that I can learn that from his culture, you can learn that from my culture, it doesn't matter. You can learn a better way. That's right, but the hard part is he's going to have to do that at the expense of, um, hurt feelings.

hurt feelings and family meals and all that stuff's going to be very different when you when you draw boundaries like that, people don't like it and they push up against them and all that stuff, so. Count [music] on it. Good luck to you. I put this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

>> [music]

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## 40. Don't Let Debt Steal Your Future | April 6, 2026


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:37:58 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Dr. John Delony, number one best-selling author, host of the Dr.

John Delony Show, and Ramsey personality. He's my co-host today. Jenny is with us in Orlando. Hi, Jenny. What's up?

Hello, guys. I'm just kind of tired of this financial dynamic that I have with my spouse. For context, we've been together 15 years, we're almost 40, and

I'm the breadwinner. I make about 170,000 a year, and he makes 65.

I'm more so now getting passionate about not carrying debt, making smart choices, and possibly buying a business, but I can't seem to change his mind about these balance transfers and buy now, pay

later programs. So, I'm just trying to figure out how to navigate that dynamic with someone that views money so differently, and I typically am the one to rescue, and at what point do I stop rescuing from these what I consider to be very poor long-term financial choices. Does he have a seat at the table with you?

He does. We talk about finances every single month, and I express kind of my displeasure about these things, and it's always the same thing. It's 0% interest for 18 months, and buy now, pay Let me

Let me I didn't ask a good question. That's my bad.

Do y'all have a co-created vision that y'all are both working towards?

Or does every month he come to the table and get taken to the woodshed by the breadwinner, the boss? You know what I'm saying? Yes, I say we're working toward the same vision and he has gotten a little bit better, but I can't get him to understand like even though it's 0% interest, it's still money. He sees it as this is 18 months, it's a Scott-free deal, it'll be paid before then.

We just view it so differently. I'm kind of now learning if you can't pay it cash, you can't afford it.

Yeah, that's a great lesson.

Thanks to you guys.

Yeah, we just view it so differently and it's just building up a lot of resentment and I don't want to like you said breadwinner, bring them to the table, give me the credit cards, I'm going to cut them up, but also I just am not in alignment with opening more stuff just because of the bells and whistles that they're dangling on the front end. >> I the only way I've seen this be successful and Dave, you've got way more experience with this. The the only way I've seen this be successful is

you opening the hood to your heart and your spirit and you telling him not hey,

when you do this and you need to do this and you this was dumb, but you saying

debt scares me.

Debt makes me feel less safe.

Debt makes me feel like somebody else is controlling our lives and I want you and me to be in control of our life.

And now he's getting to the source, he's not getting lectured. You get you get the difference? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not okay. I'm not okay with either one of us. I'm not okay with either one of us making a large money decision without the other one or in perpendicular to the values of the other one. And you keep doing that and I'm not okay.

This is not okay.

But do you see how what Dave just said is >> it's harmless and it's harming me. Yeah.

I'm not okay. This is scaring the crap out of me.

I worry about our future because of this because we're not aligned. And if you've made a bunch of expensive like expensive purchases, you go out and buy yourself a car, you like you lead with that. I've made purchases without even talking to you about it.

I got excited about this thing without even talking to you about it.

I'm going to own that, but I want us to start to do this together. Uh we we've got to build a thing together um because you know, us being on different pages is is harming our relationship

because it's terrifying me.

Yeah, I think because of how much I make, like he doesn't see 10 or 15,000 as a lot of money.

I see it as money that we owe to somebody.

>> Yeah. It doesn't matter who makes more, it doesn't matter who makes what, it doesn't matter how much the income is versus the behavior.

It's the behavior that's causing me to be terrified.

Right. >> You introduced yourself to us as I'm Jenny, the breadwinner.

Does he walk around getting told that a lot? I make more money, I make a lot of money. No, but I think it gives him that safety of oh, it's only 10,000, it's only 15,000. Like it just seems like so little because I make so much, but to me every dollar I make, I want it to grow and multiply and he's still This makes me feel the same way as if you brought home a half a pound of cocaine.

That's a lot of cocaine, Jenny.

>> not going to go this way.

Okay. >> This is a violation of my values and it terrifies me.

And it's not a matter of the money, it's a matter of us doing things that are directly a spear point sticking in my

arm every time you do this.

Or every time I do something that does that to you. We're not going to do things that we're not aligned on. So, Sharon has my wife has some things after 45 years that she loves to do that I frankly do not understand.

There are purchases we make that I I have zero emotional investment in. But

I I can come alongside because I get the point that it's it's important to her to do that thing.

And she gets the same thing with me. She

she Why do you need another gun? You know, well, because somebody made one.

So, you know, it it she does not emotionally, but she goes, okay, it's within our

and it's within my talk my emotional tolerance to do something with money that I don't understand, but I know gives you joy. Same thing with her buying whatever X, Y, or Z or putting some money in savings a certain way makes her feel different than it does me. Yeah. That kind of a thing. And so, all we're doing is is serving each other rather than ourselves. It's selfishness versus you know, submit yourselves one to another, scripture says. Mhm.

And it it's the the other one that's hard. Sure.

You submitting to me is easy. Me submitting to you, that one's hard. >> Yes. And so, and by submitting it doesn't mean I do what you say, it means I care what you think so much that we're not going to do something that terrifies you.

Yeah, and and she brought up a great point here that I see couples get sideways on, which is it really matters. She said, I want every dollar to be ROI-ing, multiplying, and growing. And it sounds like she has a husband who wants to kind of just enjoy the life he's in. And that is money just becomes the proxy war where everyone wants to fight.

The real issue is you're not aligned on this core value. >> Yeah. And what you I I don't want the audience to miss what you just said cuz it's important.

year. I think you sneezed at this morning. But like you and Sharon still talk about purchases. We do not make large purchases or gifts Right. without the other one being an approved.

>> Yeah. And you know, and sometimes the approval is laughing. Sure. You know, it's like but there's knowledge ahead of time and we don't get a It's like, oh, you know, well, let's let's let's let's sit on that a week and pray. Okay, that's a fair answer, too. Yeah. Um yeah, I don't I don't understand. Why are you doing that? And explain. Okay, I still don't understand. All right, let's wait a minute. You know, so yes, no, or wait.

These are three possible answers and and all tightwads and nerds can't have every dollar behaving with no fun involved.

The other person's there to bring the fun. All right. So, I think he's your fun person. So, you you see him for that. He's good for that. >> people have to realize bills have to be paid every month, which is annoying, right? And we need the other side, too.

Yeah, there's all that thing that the grocery store wants money for those groceries. Who knew?

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me, too.

They don't know what to do next. Me, too. I mean, You're going to have a crisis here, and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. These are the two options.

>> life insurance can replace income and have debts cover funeral expenses so your family can actually

have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> Yeah. To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Cody is in Chattanooga. Hi Cody, how are you?

I'm doing good. How are you doing today?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Great. Appreciate you taking the call.

Hey, I am a first-time home homeowner. I bought my house about 6 months ago.

Um, I got it on a 15-year, doing bi-weekly payments, but I just got and going through the process of switching to an ARM loan, so a 7-year adjustable rate mortgage. Um, I closed on it today. I've got 3 days to cancel it if I need to, and I feel kind of in my gut like I might have been making a bad decision, and I wanted to chat with you about it.

Okay.

Um Um What What was the interest rate on your old mortgage?

5.625.

And the interest rate on the ARM is?

It's going to be 4.99 for the next 7 years. So So 5 What? What's the The one you got rid of was 5 what? It is 5.625.

Okay. All right. So it's less than 1%

and your loan balance is what?

It is when I got the house it was 192.

>> your loan balance today?

I've managed to pay it down to 168 in the past 6 months. Okay. So 1% is $1,600

a year.

Mhm. Is the difference.

And it's not even that. So it's probably $1,400 a year is your difference. And what was your closing costs on this?

My closing costs are going to be about $8,000.

So you're not even going to break even.

That's that's what I'm looking at, too.

And my goal is to pay this off in the next 5 years.

>> Either your goals are irrelevant on this. It's just a simple refinance calculation. If you save $1,400 a month

and you pay $8,000 for that purpose and the loan's going to be paid off in 7 years, you're not even going to make your money back in interest saved that you paid out in closing costs.

Your break-even analysis sucks.

Got it. So my my payment right now is is

1,800. It would drop down to 1167.

I should I need to cancel this? Yes.

Cool. Yeah. Well, you see why? It's regardless of what your payment change is, it's the interest change that matters. The only real savings is the interest savings. The difference in 562 and 499.

Which is what? .75. 3/4 of a point, right? 3/4 of a point 1 point is $1,680.

So 3/4 of a point is around 1,400 bucks.

Got it. Got it. I I and I had think I had done my math wrong towards the the front end of doing this and and closing I think I kind of started to figure that out. >> Okay. So now let let's can I pile on now? Are you okay? Please. Please.

Buckle up. Which is really just to go back to the real reason to talk that this thing. Let's pretend that we had not found that mathematical problem. And

instead you just had signed up for an adjustable rate that adjust one time in 7 years. If you don't pay it off in 7 years, it's going to adjust dramatically. You know that, right?

>> Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. And so if if if your if your plan

doesn't work out, you've got a problem.

Yes. Never put together

a financial formula that that it you have it everything your plan has to work for it to work.

It also it has to work when the plan doesn't work, too.

Yeah. Because they that that's the the stuff that we teach is the only stuff common sense stuff the biblically based stuff get out of debt for instance, okay? That's the only plan that works when things are good and the plans work out and when the plans don't work out.

Yeah. So you you did a deal here that only works if it works.

And those kinds are the ones that will come around bite you in the butt later.

And so you probably would be okay cuz if

it adjusted to, you know, 9 or 10% or something crazy at the end of that 7 years, it wouldn't be much of a balance cuz you would have paid it way down, but you would not be able to refinance if you were unemployed at that precise moment, which I've gotten that call. I plan to pay off this balloon in 5 years and in the 48th month six 12 months before the balloon pops, I lost my job and my wife got a cancer diagnosis and and so we're just now our house is being foreclosed on because you built a plan that only works when things work.

Right. And that's that's what that we wouldn't have a show if there wasn't that.

uh lawyers like there'd be way fewer of them and guys like us if everyone's plan worked all the time. Yeah. Yeah, if you >> Like the one thing is your plan's probably not going to work like you thought it >> For functional families, we wouldn't need people with PhD in counseling.

>> That's exactly right. If people used a calculator Most families put the fun in dysfunctional. So, I mean it's you know, including mine. So, there you go. All right, fun. Victoria is in Austin, Texas. Hi Victoria, how are you?

I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hi. Um I am looking to see I am 300

$227 in 600 in debt and I >> I'm sorry, wait a minute. I didn't understand that number. That was a number I didn't understand.

300 what?

$300,000?

Yes, indeed. Okay. And and how much of that is your home, ma'am?

$255,000.

>> Okay. What is the other 45,000 in debt?

Um it is student loan. Mhm. And then I

have a car that's 12,000 and then my air conditioner went out that is 2,000.

Your air conditioner went out and you borrowed to get another one.

Yes, sir. >> That's the 2,000. Okay.

All right. Your air conditioner going out doesn't put you in debt. It's the buying the other one that goes you into debt. Okay. So, the And what do you make, ma'am?

I make between 100 to 150,000 a year.

Wow. >> work any overtime, it would just be 100.

If I do add overtime to that, it would be 150. >> Good for you. Okay, I'm I'm caught up with you now and your question's what?

Um like would it be smart for me to open up a Roth IRA now even though that I'm still in debt and I'm paying off my debt or should I wait till I get all my debt off of me first before I open up a Roth IRA? That is an excellent question.

And the good news is you're smart enough to know you need to be investing. That's very smart. Okay. How old are you?

I am 32 years old. >> Okay. So, you're already looking out into the future. Good for you. Well done. So, what we have found is after studying this for many, many years and helping millions of people get out of debt and build a wealth and that tens of thousands of them become millionaires is the fastest way to become a millionaire, the fastest way to build substantial investments is to

first get out of debt because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. Now, I'm not talking about your house, but we want to get rid of the student loan and the car debt and the air conditioner debt as soon as we can.

And the good news is it's only 45,000 and if you work overtime, you can make 150 and live on 100 and be debt free in 1 year. You'll be 33 with no debt.

Yes. That'd be pretty cool.

But, you got to buckle down more than you ever have.

Yes, sir. Cuz you've been a little sloppy. That's how we got here.

Yes. That doesn't make you bad. It just makes you normal.

But, normal sucks. We don't want to be normal.

That's right. Okay. So, let's buckle down, get on beans and rice, rice and beans, get on a budget, get that Every Dollar app downloaded off the web for free, get your budget going, and let's knock these debts out ASAP.

And and lay out lay it out on paper where you're done in 1 year or less, okay?

1 year or less. Yes, sir. I will. You That's 45 from 150 leaves me 105 to live

on not counting taxes.

You can do that.

Okay. >> Once you focus cuz you're a person that focuses, I can tell. Go. Now that you're paying attention, now that you're awake, game on, okay?

>> Game on. Okay. All right. And and you can do this. And so, then what's going to happen is is the what you used to pay on car payments

and student loan payments, >> Yes, sir. when you start putting that into an investment, that amount alone

will make you a millionaire before you retire.

Yes, sir. So, I'm to pay the 45 off and then open the water. Yes, ma'am. There you go. We teach a process for getting

out of debt and then building wealth. We call it the baby steps and again, millions of people have done it. I'll send you a copy of the book The Total Money Makeover as my gift and it shows you exactly how to work those baby steps and don't make up your own plan, Victoria. Do the one we have that works.

It's proven. It's proven. It's not because somehow we just dreamed it up.

It's millions and millions of people have done that. I've sold 20 million of those books.

So, we know this is moving the needle.

And you're you're awake now, so game on.

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So, I'm really starting to

I mean, I was mildly amused with AI to start with, but I'm really starting to love it. Um once I understood this one basic thing about AI, here's something you got to understand. So, AI obviously generates an answer for you. You pose an answer for it. But, the only thing it can answer from is the data that you give it access to.

And so, if you control the data inputs, you're controlling the outputs.

So, for instance, when Google has lost its stupid mind and actually is when you ask Google a question, it's searching Reddit as if Reddit is some source of truth on anything.

90% of what's in there is bull crap. So, why you would search that for the answer to a question is beyond me. So, the AI database is completely screwed up. And

so, your answer's screwed up.

So, but we understand this now and I our team has built the Ask Ramsey AI tool.

And what's in it? What's the data that the publisher's in it? Well, we put 3 years of the answers from this show in there. We put all the Financial Peace University in there, all the books we've written here in there. We put all the articles that we've written in there.

So, there's nothing in there except Ramsey.

All the answers from anywhere we've given one of us has given, you know, Dr.

Delony, me, Rachel, whoever, and it drops in there. So, when you hit the Ask Ramsey AI app, it's going to give you an answer that sounds even as smart alec as you're going to get here on the air.

I mean, it's even got the some of the sarcasm in it. It's awesome. I I want them to turn up the sarcasm a little bit more. They took all my jokes about George out though and that kind of put >> really? Aw. He got his feelings hurt.

>> Ask Ramsey about George jokes.

>> He drove home in his Tesla in a huff.

Except there was no huff cuz there's no huff coming out the back of his Tesla.

See, there's a good George joke right there. All right. So, here's some that we get questions and and we always go down and cuz you need to check this app out. It's at ramseysolutions.com. It's free. Ask Ramsey. If you can't get through on the air here, which nobody can cuz these lines are jammed all the time.

You can just go over there and ask Ramsey. So, here's the number and we always come in and give you the number one question of the day of the week. So, the number one question this week are what are the top pitfalls to avoid when

budgeting?

So, uh I read an old Zig Ziglar quote this weekend that said, "No one accidentally got to the top of Mount Everest." I always say no one accidentally won the Super Bowl. Winning is an intentional act. And so, if winning with money is an intentional act, what are the tactical things you do? Budgeting is the main one. You tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. You give every dollar an assignment every month before the month begins and that's

how we even named the app, the budgeting app, every dollar, okay? So, top eight pitfalls to avoid when you're doing your budget. Make sure you give every dollar a job.

Now, this is not your checking account balance. This is your budget.

And so, you there's no can be no money left over. If it's left over, you need to have a a category that's called leftover money.

So, at least then it's got a name.

But, it should be going to miscellaneous or fun or debt reduction or to something, right? So, no money left over. Now, money left over in your account is good. You need to leave a little slush in there. But but your zero your budget should go to zero every month.

The second one is then you guess at it.

You do a budget and you don't follow it.

You just go, "Ah, I kind of thought I No, you got to go like this is how much we have for groceries and we're not buying more groceries than this. And we run out of groceries after this day." And so, period. Uh then the other one is we ignore the four walls. We don't take care of the important stuff first. The important stuff is groceries and utilities and housing and utilities and uh transportation. Uh another one is you let de- debt steal your momentum.

Uh letting more debt in or be refusing

to sell something that's got a bunch of debt on it that's got you stuck and so you can't get them you can't get the math to spin and start to you can't get any margin to start to make some some process. You need a miscellaneous category. Everyone needs a miscellaneous category. You need a his and her spending category. They're small but it's unaccounted for. It's just money you can blow, money you can get rid of.

Uh you need to be budgeting and this is the biggest one with your spouse.

So, the two of you sit down even if it's for 15 minutes, even if it's for 2 hours with the kids in bed. We go over the budget, we both agree to the budget, and

then we freaking stick to the budget.

This is our contract. This is an agreement with each other.

We pinky swear and spit shake we're doing this. When you budget with your spouse, you are agreeing on your fears, you're agreeing on your values, you're agreeing on your dreams.

And when you agree on that much stuff, you're going to have a level of unity in your relationship you had no other way.

Another thing is if you make a mistake and have a bad month, people quit.

Don't quit. Get back on the horse.

Go ride it again. I have a I have a buddy who talks about that in the nutrition space about um you have you're you're on a diet and you have one bad day and then you're just like, "Ah, I blew it." He said that's like walking outside in the morning heading to work and you see you have a flat tire and you pull out a knife and deflate all the other tires, too." He's like, "Fix that tire and get on to work." And I when he said it like that, I was like, "Oh, yeah, that's a dumb.

Okay, so I had pizza. I'm going to get back on in the morning. Yeah. Yeah, just keep get back with it.

Yeah. Yeah, so you messed up. You're human. Oh, no.

Oh, no." And And here's the thing, you have to adjust for irregular expenses.

You've never done it before.

It's not going to be right. Your first 30 days, you're probably going to have some emergency budget committee meetings and adjust and raise one category and lower some other ones by the same amount cuz it's still got to equal zero.

And it takes about 90 days, about three budget cycles to quit fighting about it,

to get on the same page about it, and to actually get your numbers right. Because you we think we're doing one thing with food and we're actually spending twice that. We think we're doing one thing with whatever and we didn't realize, "Oh, we forgot uh children's activities." Like, well, the let me just help you. Children have activities. Or a doctor bill that's 7 months old just comes out of the blue and you got to pay like it just shows up and Who knew?

Yeah, I forgot about it. Forgot I went.

Yeah, that that's all there. So, these are the This is the top pitfalls to avoid when budgeting and straight out of the Ask Ramsey tool almost like we said

it because we did. Can I tell you something? Um this is a very personal private experiment I've been doing. N equals 1.

And I got to tell you, um you and I haven't We haven't hung out in a while and I'll just tell you right here on the air. Uh-oh. My wife and I March 1st canceled

Amazon Prime. Ooh. >> And the second thing is I said for the

month of March, um and the month of April, I'm going to just going to use I'm going to go old school and just use cash.

And at every transaction >> transaction. Wow. >> In fact, today was the first thing I've spent with a card April, yeah. Um well,

I didn't I just I was like, oh, I forgot cash. Like I'm I'm still practicing. It's my first first one that I didn't keep up my end of the bargain I made to myself. I got to tell you two things.

One the ability to just click it and buy it versus I'm going to plan and go to the store has so insanely reduced the number

of things I buy.

I I never in a million years would have would have thought that. The second thing is um I I just thought like, oh, I need those socks or I need that thing or I need those light bulbs, whatever. I'm just going to click click click click click and they just mail them to my house. When I have to get out and go to the store and plan I just buy less like, we don't need that right now. Or you forget it. Or the socks I got, yeah. The second thing is you've talked this for years.

As I'm just putting over cash

it is painful. Yep. It sticks in a way

that just waving my phone over the little beepity beep thing it is causing

me to rethink all the stuff I buy. What gas cost? >> In a very visceral way. And it's it's

it's just it's a reminder at how the credit card companies, the tech companies in an effort to make everything comfortable and quote unquote reduce friction have taken away our our our internal

like metric system for this hurts. Do you really need this? Do you want this?

And man I do this I'm I'm with you on this show and I've been shocked at how my spending habits, frictionless habits have have taken over. Well, and your your psychology brain is probably in overload. Oh, dude, it's cooking. You're you're melting down analyzing all this.

Well, I'm I'm trying to connect what I'm feeling versus what I'm doing and man, that bridge is I need a lot less stuff.

And man, using cash really >> thing is you cannot replace the weird looks you get when you pay cash for things. I I did have one exchange where I and they're like I don't know what you're talking about. They were looking around at me like I was handing them a snake and I said, "Hey, I that's all I got.

So, if you don't take like money, I'm going to have to and they're and they're like, "No, no, you you can you can do it. We just got to I don't know how to open the drawer." I mean, it was a whole thing. I felt like I wrote up to like a store on a horse. You did.

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>> Zach is in North Carolina. Hi Zach, how are you?

Hey, doing wonderful. Appreciate you call, big fan. Sure. How can we help?

Yeah, couldn't ask for a better duo. I was hoping you could help resolve a disagreement between me and my wife.

Yes, I love these. We're probably going to be right.

I'm sure you are.

She would like to move back to where we're from where more family and friends for we've got an 18-month-old baby girl and she would like some more help and um Where is that? Where's home?

Charlotte.

And you're in Wilmington.

How far is How far is Wilmington from Charlotte? About 3 3 and 1/2. Not bad.

Okay. All right. >> Um versus I've built a um let's say fairly successful real estate career over the past decade here and just trying to resolve that issue and trying to trying to figure it out cuz starting over in a different market is terrifying and just doesn't sound feasible to me and trying to find a maybe maybe a middle ground or just get walked through it if you will.

What would a middle ground look like?

That's a great question. I don't hear I don't hear a middle ground here so I'd love to hear if you've got one.

Well, I guess I'm looking for a viable How old are you guys?

33. Yeah.

33. >> Okay. And you've been you've been in this market for 10 years.

Uh yes, sir. 13. >> Wait a minute, has she been there 10 years? Uh six. We've been here. How long have you all been married? Six? >> We're both from Uh yes. Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right.

So, the baby is the is the thing that

caused the change.

Cuz there was probably no no big deal before that, right? >> Well, Mike Mike I would bet the opposite. Has this been brewing for a while? We don't have any friends. I'm kind of all all alone while you're out running deals. And then the baby just brought that all to the surface.

Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. >> Okay. All right. Cuz the cuz that story like there is the draw I want to be around family. I want I want all my all

of the family's chickens, you know, in the same roost. Like that that's common and I totally get that.

But just listening to you talk about your career and like that makes me think she is rapidly feeling like um she is

living a life that she doesn't like living. Yeah. She You all have created a life that's mostly about you and she doesn't like what you all have created together.

Yes, yeah. We've got uh we got my folks here, but that's not enough and she didn't have the village that she needs, so Okay. Um just having a hard time with that. Okay. So, is the is the fear all all market-based that you have this job, it's comfortable, you know how it all works, and the thought of starting over again at 33, which by the way, you're not going to be starting over, but it feels that way and I get that.

That is that what makes you nervous, or do you also not want to live there? You don't want to be around her family, you don't want to be around her old friends. Is that part of it, too, or not really?

Well, a little bit of a combo. Not that I don't want to be around them, but I just I don't know. It's just been taking so long to be where we're at now um and

just starting over is is extremely overwhelming. Yeah. I I I would A, sit down with a good marriage counselor and keep talking about this for a while uh to keep yourselves from getting entrenched too entrenched. Um

and then I would probably throw out the challenge of two things. And this is just old guy talking and then I'll let the real psychologist over here answer the question, but um n- number one, uh uh going back, you can't ever go back

home.

I drove through my neighborhood that I grew up in the other day. It's not the neighborhood I grew up in.

Yeah. It just is the neighborhood I grew up in, but it's not the neighborhood I grew up in. You know what I'm saying? Things have changed.

And her old friends have changed. And the comfort she thinks she's going to get from being near her mother is not as much as she thinks it is. And so she's painted this romantic picture of how she's going to step back into all of this connection that she used to have, and none of those people are the same, and most of them aren't still there, and some of them you don't even want to be connected to. And so it's a false picture to a large degree.

this is going to be, you know, it's all it's all unicorns and Skittles over there is bull crap, okay? Um that's my

opinion. Um you just can't go back. And

so um I mean, I visit my old whatever,

school, church, whatever. It just I walk

in there and I'm going, "What were we doing here back then?" It well and and a common a common refrain that you'll hear me say all the time >> is wherever you go, y'all are going to go with you. >> Exactly. And so if y'all have built a life where she thinks she worked too much, she feels alone inside her own house, y'all sit by each other on the couch, and you're scrolling on your phone checking deals, and she's trying to connect with you, but she's on her phone. That zip code doesn't matter.

>> That same dynamic's going to end up Yeah. there. The second thing I would propose is with the help of a therapist that's keeping you guys nimble and uh flexible and talking, and

understanding each other's needs as you're going into this, is I would go on

a hardcore 6-month experiment to build

community.

Plug into a church, invite people to your house, invite neighbors to your house, invite church people to your house, invite work people to your house, have dinners, develop some friendships.

You're not friends with anybody because you've not been friends to anybody.

And no one initiates in this stupid digital culture anymore. And if you all would initiate, you're probably going to have more friends in 6 months than you would ever have in any other location.

But you need to work at the friendship and community building thing because you've spent zero calories on it so far, both of you.

John? Agreed. Yeah, and the layer underneath that one is I think there's some real power in sitting across the table from your wife and saying if this is true, don't say it if it's not true, but over the last 6 years the market's been up and down. 6 years ago you were living high, right? And in the last 4 years it's been you've been grinding it. Um

I've put this ahead of you.

And I want to build an I I essentially want to build a new marriage.

What does it look like for me to walk in the door and put my phone down and be present with you? The deal will wait.

What does it look What How can I love you better?

And by the way, I don't want to make this all one-sided. There's stuff about her that you miss.

And you're able to say, here's what I Here's ways you can love me right now.

But I want you to go first. Use the word I. I haven't shown up. I have made my life about business. I've been really proud about this. And you've been telling me for 2 years, 3 years, 4 years, I'm lonely. Can we go hang out?

Will you put your phone down? And I haven't done those things. That changes today. >> Yeah, have you protected her from your mother?

Yeah, I have. I think a lot of it has to do with we're in a we're in a secondary vacation um primarily home market. Uh we're not in Wilmington. And um Charles is course of and and she's got her sister and her kids there who are the same age as as our daughter and and her best friend of 20 years is there and uh, just harder to make friends here than it is as there.

And I think that has a lot to do with it. Plus lack of sleep and blah blah blah.

some new attempts at building the life there

before I left there.

And then the And then if you can't and you decide based on that, the only place we can build the life we both want is I'll I will make the sacrifice to rebuild my market in another place. And here's what that's going to cost. It's it's it's going to be a We're going to have a cut an income like We're going to be planning for this. We're not just going to be emotional and reactive about it.

We're going to plan for it. So it's not going to be tomorrow.

The proof of your future success is often your like past. You shown yourself you can get in there and grind and build it. You can. And so to say I won't be able to it's not going to happen I don't think that's true.

>> And it doesn't feel like he needs to He He doesn't feel like he has to if if she just had friends.

Or her sister or her cousins or her nieces and all that kind of stuff. But I I I love the idea of y'all two sitting on the same side of the table and putting the problem on the other side of the table and making sure like Dave said y'all don't come unseam at the part come apart at the seams at each other. It's you versus me One of us is going to win this. It is how do we build the life we want and that includes how do you want this house to feel?

Where's this going to be?

Who do we want running around our house?

>> So we did we did this, John. >> Okay. 45 years ago.

What's that? >> When I got married. My wife came 3 hours from her family.

Huh. Yeah. Moved into a city where she knew no one.

We did this. Yeah. Exactly what I did.

And we did exactly what I said just then. It's exactly what we did. And she's never one time said she wanted to go back home.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. John Delony, Dr. John Delony, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Ruth is in Nashville. Hi, Ruth.

What's up?

Hi. Um so, I'm calling because my husband and I built a multi-generational house with his parents.

Um now only less than about a year and a half later, my mother-in-law has moved out and will soon stop helping with the mortgage payment. So, we will either have to lose have to sell the house with very little equity in it, or we will lose the house. Um she says she wants part of the sale of the house.

Um but how can I move forward without feeling as much hurt or animosity towards my mother-in-law?

Um Could could I venture a guess that before any of this was done or signed up for you, you had a bad feeling about it?

Yes. So, you're really mad at yourself.

There's a good part of it that I am mad at myself. Yeah.

Yeah. What happened?

Um So, my husband and I um came up um to my in-laws with the idea to build a multi-generational house um back in probably late '23, early '24. Um

his dad had had a stroke back in 2008 and was in poor health.

So, we were talking and we talked about how important it was for him to be with his dad when the time came

when time came. Um And so, we brought up this idea with them and we were very clear we had a budget of $1,500 for our half of the mortgage. So, whatever we chose has to fall within that.

Um It ended up like with building ballooning a bit and uh we ended up with a $3,600 payment um rounding up. Um

And so, they said that they would cover, you know, whatever we could not cover with the $1,500. Um we moved in in September of '24 and by last June, so of

'25, my father-in-law passed away. Um and it was very

as hurt as painful as it was to be there, it was also I would never take that scenario back.

It was kind of what you signed up for.

Yeah, that's good. That part's good.

Yeah. Exactly.

So, did you put equity into the house?

Um me and my husband put about a hundred

maybe a little over a hundred thousand into the house. >> won't bring enough for you to get your hundred out?

Um we may just get our hundred. So, we

put in a hundred, his parents put in a hundred, but it was like a six hundred and sixty thousand dollar house. >> But so, would there be enough to get her hundred and your hundred out?

Probably not both of our hundred. Um She has Yeah. Um We're hoping to get close, but um she has since started dating a guy um in mid-July and

moved in with him in August.

Um and she was she first said she would cover the normal part of the mortgage.

She wasn't um taking that away from the picture. And then January she said, "No, I have to go fifty-fifty." which I was a little annoyed, but I mean I dealt with it cuz it was fair. And then just last month she said, "No, I'm not paying half. Um I will only be I will only be paying fifteen hundred and soon I will not be contributing to the house." Um So, but you I assume there's no written there's no written agreement, right?

No. Okay. Just her text messages saying this is what is happening.

So, the reality is the house is gone.

Yeah. So, sell it.

Immediately. Mhm. And uh deduct what she she promised to pay everything above fifteen hundred originally. And whatever she doesn't keep her promise on, deduct that from her half of the proceeds.

Okay.

To make the deal fair, to make her she's going to honor her word, I'm just taking it out of her hide.

And um um but there's so much to be disappointed in with this lady.

But uh none of it is your fault and none of it is anything you can do about. Uh but and really I would be so disappointed with her in all things except the house.

There's just so much that she's that there's there's wrong about what everything is just sad.

It is. So and then and here here let's let's walk away. Let's walk back. Then the house is gone. You have roughly your hundred in your hand and you go start the next chapter of your life. And then the way I would quantify that and I may be over compartmentalizing so that my psychologist over here may correct me.

But um the way I would do that is I say, "Okay, whatever money I lost, whatever tears I have shed over the stupidity of this deal was worth it for that precious

six or eight months and to be there when pop passed." Yes. And that was the cost of that.

That's what it cost me.

For to have that. I I traded this for that. And then leave it there and walk away.

Emotionally. Put it in the rearview mirror. And then you've got her to deal with and her misbehavior, which is just a separate issue, but I I I

you know, she's just out of control and and is grieving in a weird way and un a dysfunctional way and >> Well, she's met somebody and he's he's whispering in her ear cuz he wants that money in his pocket not in yours. Yeah.

Um okay, Ruth, can I use your situation, your original question as like a miniature teaching moment here?

Sure. Cuz you asked a really powerful question and I think this question is drowning us as a culture.

How can I do these hard things that I got to do that were not what we agreed upon and

not feel sad, resentful, all these other feelings?

Mhm.

All feelings are they're just they're they're digital billboards as you're driving down the highway of life.

They're giving you information.

Mhm. And if you think of them that way, they they are powerful and they're important data, but their job is not to tell you the truth. It's to keep you safe on this road you're driving on called life.

And if you were driving down I-65, we're all here in Nashville. If you're driving down this main artery highway that goes through our town, our city, and you said I want to avoid all signage, right? That would be a nightmarish ride.

You would never get where you actually want to go. And so, what I want to tell you is and and everybody listening and I'm I'm this is the pot talking to the kettle. I'm a big emotional, big feeling guy, too. is I I I want us to all

collectively stop trying to build lives where we try to work around feelings.

Let's go right through the stinking middle of them. Yeah, if you're going through hell, keep driving. Right. Yeah.

So, I'm going to feel I'm going to feel sad. I'm going to feel frustrated. I'm going to feel XYZ. This is what maturity is.

This is what emotional regulation is if you want to be a nerd. It is Can I feel this thing and then do the next right thing after that feeling?

And it doesn't mean your feelings are wrong, bad. It I I don't judge feelings anymore. Have all the ones you want. What I'm going to look at is what's the thing I did next after that feeling?

And so, be heartbroken.

Be sad. Be pissed off. Be all those things. And still sell the house. >> sell the house. >> Yeah. And still execute on the proper

way to handle the money at the transaction at the sale of the house and all of that. >> Still choose to I I I'm going to drop up with this woman as we sell this house or whatever. >> Still next time I have a bad feeling about a deal, I'm going to listen to it. I'm going to listen to my bad when the My dad used to say when the bell rings the bell's ringing for Listen to the bell, it's ringing.

>> That's a great That's a great line. You know, listen to it. Listen to it. Listen to it.

>> don't.

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Thomas is in Dallas. Hi Thomas, how are you? Good. How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, so um I'm basically a subcontractor working for um a company. Um I have to be doing

a lot of driving, need a personal vehicle. Right now my boss is lending me one of his. I currently have a broken-down truck that needs an that needs an engine probably around a $5,000 fix. If I get that fixed, my boss will give me the equivalent of a 20 to 33% raise

across the board um on my job. The question is whether or not to take out a loan to do that and then since right now

uh the income that I'm getting is pretty good um so I can literally rate >> What's that? What do you do for a living? I I clean clean swimming pools.

Okay. All right. And so a $5,000 or $6,000 truck will get the job done as long as it runs and gets you there, right?

Well, so I currently have a vehicle that is broken down. It needs an engine.

>> you told me that. I don't want to fix it. It's crap. I'd rather just buy one that's already running.

Okay. So what can you sell that piece of crap for? That's salvage. A thousand bucks? 1,500?

Not quite sure. I haven't priced that yet. >> Yeah, okay.

What What What kind of What kind of year model and what truck is that that's sitting with no engine?

Uh 2001 or maybe a 2003 Ford F-150. Okay.

Yeah, so you can buy that car with an engine running for five or six grand.

Yeah. Okay. Um And what do What are you making?

How much do you make before he gives you this 20 or 30% raise?

Uh net is 33.5. Gross is 30 after my

1099 tax. >> This 33.5 33,500

dollars? Yes. Okay. >> about Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

And so a 20% raise is $7,000.

That sound right?

Uh Yeah, 20% of 33. Okay.

And so um yeah, the um So, you break even after 1 year.

Okay. If you spend $7,000 to get a truck and he pays you 20%.

Um how long have you been working for this guy?

Well, so So, he's the one that trained my dad. I've been working for my dad for ever since I'm 20 I'm 28. I've been working for my dad off and on since I've been 15. Um I I recently had a life destruction event and then been literally have started working last week.

Back in this job that I have like What's a life destruction event?

I I um had a mental health crisis.

During the mental health crisis, I there was there was uh family violence happening between me and my wife. I got put in prison for that. Um even though in Texas, there's supposed to be provisions for preventing for helping people with mental health.

Should not just put them in prison, but that didn't happen with me. So. How long were you How long were you away?

Uh 2 years and a month and then I got a

violation and was back in for another 5 months. So. Okay. I'm back out a week now. So. Okay. No. Yeah, don't borrow

money, please. You do not need to borrow any money. You're you're you're coming off of a highly unstable situation and you haven't stabilized yet.

Um at least we don't know that. We hope you have and you hope you have. Okay? If you told me this was all 3 years ago, it might be a different discussion. It wouldn't be a discussion about borrowing money. It would be a bit a different picture. But instead, we're 3 minutes into this, not 3 years into this.

So, you need to sustain a life with very little stress and adding debt to this is not the thing.

So, thank you boss for the new job. I'm

sorry. I'm a minute out of prison and I don't need to be borrowing money right now. I'll have to drive your truck for a while longer until I can save up and pay cash for something. How long till you can save up six grand?

Um that's kind of that's kind of the

issue. The all my money is basically kind of breaking even in my every dollar zero budget. Where is it going?

Well, I'm sure the most

biggest expense is $300 in gas and so I'm spending about 105 I'm purchasing about 105 gallons a month.

Come on boat please. Cool.

Well, how much is your rent?

That's it. Me and my wife are currently separated. She has a $500 rent. I have a $250 rent. You have to pay the $500

rent? Yes. Why?

Uh currently because we have we have two kids. She's basically stay-at-home. Her family sometimes helps, but if I'm paying this stuff she doesn't ask for the money. Um and currently because of the family law instance there's a no contact order so I cannot coordinate anything with her. So I'm kind of defaulting to doing everything basically. Yeah. Well,

um I'm going to help you. You don't have to do everything.

You need to make sure the kids have a something to eat, but she also is going to have to make a life without you.

And so she and and that means she has to develop a way to live sustainably

without you feeding her.

Okay, so I um you know, right now we've got to get you up and stable. So your 250 rent um even 500 going out for her still not

used up all your money.

So you've just started. This is real fresh. Thomas, please don't go borrow money to buy a truck to work for a guy that you've been working for for 10 minutes, even though you've known him a hundred years. This whole thing everything in your life has been quick and sudden and fast. Impulsive.

>> And I want you to slow down. Okay.

And just be boring for a while.

Let's no excitement. You've had enough excitement to last you the rest of your life. Just be boring Thomas.

Can I Can I paint you a picture, brother? All right.

The last two plus two and a half years, somebody told you when to get up, when to eat, when to you could go outside, what you were going to eat, right?

Yep. When you borrow money, that bank tells you, "I don't care how you feel. You're going to work tomorrow cuz I want my money. You already took my truck." "Oh, you got you lost that job? I don't really care. You're doing this because right?" And so what I don't want you to do is walk out of prison and then walk right back in voluntarily.

And that's what borrowing money does. Stay free. Yeah, that's good. That's good.

Stay free. Hang on. I'll send you a copy of The Total Money Makeover and we'll help you as you rebuild your life and just steady. Steady and slow.

Christian, send him Building a Non-Anxious Life, too. I want to give him some tools for walking through the ups and downs that are going to be the next 5, 10, 15 years of his life as he steadies himself and builds a new version of himself from the inside out. We'll send him both of those. Yeah, very good.

That's good. I like that. Mike, send in Detroit.

Doing good, I think. I need a little bit of help. Okay, how can we help?

So, I got my dream job in September of

2023 working for a friend's company.

Everything was going swimmingly up till about November 2024 where I had to leave this company and pick up work with a competitor.

While I was working for him, I was working to get myself out of university debt, education debt, and get my feet underneath me, and be as independent as possible, and and save up money, and everything else. Um unfortunately, I had a lawsuit that I had to file against that employer, and it took everything out of my life.

>> or the second one?

Uh old friend uh old friend. Why? You only worked for him for a year.

Well, I was working for him on and off for about 9 years, kind of at the time.

>> dream was the dream lasted a whole year.

What was the lawsuit for?

Um he did not pay an invoice that I billed him for, for work that I performed for him. After you left?

Yes. Why did you do work for him after you left, if you got fired?

>> sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, before before I was hired on full-time. How big was the invoice?

$8,000.

Okay. I'm sorry. So, how how much were you making working for this guy? $65,000 a year. Okay. So, have you been

able to replace that income?

Uh I was working for another company, a competitor of his, but they were only paying half of it.

Now, so I think what I'm going to concentrate on is not being angry at him

and all this quote dream job stuff that never was really a dream, and instead be working on the future. I mean, what are you going to do? >> and get to get get get after something moving forward. >> Yeah. Go forward. Forward.

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Portland, Oregon, Leslie is calling. Hi,

Leslie. How are you?

Hi, good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Thank you for taking my call first off.

So, my husband and I have three kids,

and our oldest, she's 16. We share her

with his first wife, and she's 16.

And um we want to know our question is, should we help pay for her driving school?

Who's paying Who's paying for her insurance?

Uh mom.

Okay. So, you paying for driving school gives mom a discount.

Yes. Why is mom not paying for it?

So, that's kind of where we're at, and we We also want some advice on how to navigate that conversation.

Um How to navigate the ex?

Yes.

Uh we're not that smart.

Yeah, I didn't I didn't have that class in grad school. That's a tough >> did kind of this shady thing um last week. She um had said that our daughter

text my husband say, "Can we talk?" And then when they finally got to talk, she said um that they were waiting on us to start driving school, but we are going through

our own We just started the EveryDollar app. Like, we're trying to get debt free. We pay her child support, and like I

I just don't know how to navigate this because we've paid for her braces, and we were supposed to go half on that. She never once called and made a payment to the dental office, even though we told her this was the office Let me jump in on this Leslie, okay? Let me jump in.

Yeah. Yes.

I want you to take like imagine you're sitting at your kitchen table and you have a shoe box on the table. Yeah. Inside that shoe box is the people in your life that get a vote.

Okay. Take her out of that box.

Because you're still trying to like she's doing these things and you're spending a ton of energy trying to get inside her head and why did she do this and I bet it's cuz of this and then you're making up a bunch of stories about why she did or didn't and your stories are probably right but they aren't affecting her one bit. So you're drinking the poison >> hoping the ex-wife hoping the ex-wife is is is feeling pain and you're the one getting sick. Yeah. And so Let's just focus on you and the kids.

needs to do the same thing. My ex-wife does not get a vote.

She does not get a vote in our house, okay? Now, what our house what you and your husband sit down and decide to do for his daughter that he loves regardless if she's married to a woman who's a test pilot for a broom factory.

Okay? Regardless of that.

All right? So all that that's a given, okay? That's a that's a constant in the equation.

So we just set that aside and we go, okay, there's the kid. What do we want to do for the kid? In one case you said I'm going to do braces. She's supposed to pay half but she probably won't cuz she never does but we're going to pay for them anyway.

And that's what you did. So just let that go. You made that decision. Okay.

You made that decision. You and your husband made that decision again. Any energy you give ex-wife is energy you're taking away from from your home, from your marriage, from your relationship with your kids. Don't give her that.

Yeah, it's done. So then as far as the driving school goes, you guys look at it and go, how much is it by the way?

It's uh 1,200 and yeah, we paid child

support. We pay her 275 a month.

>> Doesn't matter. >> Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. None of that matters. That's all That's all set.

We don't have to We don't have to rehash all the things we do.

And we paid half the braces and you didn't. None of that matters. All that matters is do we want to do this? That's all that matters. And we can decide that in context of all these other things, but the two of you just sit down and look at that. Do we want to do this? You don't.

That's your vote. >> Yeah, I don't. >> That's your vote. And your husband I don't know what he you know your and and >> no, too. Okay, then because the the the

the test pilot for a broom factory is teaching her 16-year-old to be a travel agent for guilt trips.

Daddy, I can't get a driver's license cuz you won't help. Bull crap. You could get like a job and stuff, kid.

Or you could talk to your mother who could pay for it. There's an idea. And so no, we're not able to do that right now. I'm sorry. But I But I would tell the kid it's it it we have reasons for you. We

don't think this school is necessary.

You're a great driver already. We've been driving with you for a year with your learner's permit. We like or we think you need to have some skin in the game. Somebody else is paying your insurance. Somebody else is buying you a car. Somebody else is paying your gas. We think you should own this one.

But But have the reason be you and your husband looked at this young 16-year-old girl in front of you and said, "We made this decision for you and here's why." >> And by the way, if the ex-wife was completely out of the picture and she lived in your house 100% of the time and it was your actual kid Yeah. it needs to be the same decision. That's it.

Okay. Okay. Otherwise, you're going to be penalizing this kid trying to get back at at ex. You're going to become the person that you're frustrated with right now. Yeah, that's exactly right.

It's exactly right. So yeah, I think you and your husband should sit down and say, "Do we want to do this?" And if the answer is no, then how can we help? We can coach you. We can cheer you on.

But um you you your mom's paying for the insurance and um she's the one that's actually going to get the break on the insurance because if you'd go through driving school, you get less insurance for 16-year-old. So, it cuts the insurance premium and so it didn't go cut it by 1,200 bucks. Good cut expensive. >> what is this funny?

I'm sitting here in real time.

when I was 16. >> Oh, so that there were dinosaurs on the road. Why, exactly. I know I did pull a rope to start the car I drove around in and I just realized my wife when we paid we paid for my son he turned 16 soon to go to driving school. I the number in my head I was like, of course, yeah. I thought it was 300 bucks. I didn't know it was $1,200.

I can we did she just said >> Now you got to look up and see what you paid. >> to go see what I just paid for this thing. Sounds like it's being taught by a Formula 1 driver, but that just may be what the cost of That Well, that's the difference with 300 back then and 1,200 now, you know, that's how that works.

The last bit of inflation. Yeah, that's it. So, yeah, I but the thing is John the the the teaching is everyone you have to stop in the middle of these things and go instead of replaying these all of these scenes over and over and over in your head about the braces and everything else and just go and and she tell you know, we didn't hear from her and then she texted us and she got the kid to text us and all that really doesn't matter.

It's me and my wife. We decide.

And we decide that for our kids when they live in our house, you know, I mean matter of fact, they don't live in our house now and they still don't get a vote. Yeah. And the grandkids don't get a vote. They get a wish.

Sure. They can have a wish. >> have an opinion. That's different than a vote.

>> That's right. Papa Dave, would you? I might. But I'll have to think about it.

>> And and I think a great a sign of great like sturdy parenting is there's seasons when your kids don't like you. That means you're doing it right. If you're if you're parenting so that your kids always like you, you're going to find yourself in some real dangerous territory and worse your kids going to find themselves in some dangerous messes. Like part of parenting is saying, "Here's why we're doing this, and it's okay.

I'm strong enough to withhold your dislike for me right now. It's part of it." And in addition to that, if they're teenagers, your job is to also embarrass them frequently.

>> With all possible energy, embarrass them. Exactly. >> Find some way to give them a ridiculous hug and a kiss at the in front of all their friends. >> On behalf of mental health practitioners across this great country, embarrass your kids a lot cuz we need your future business. YEAH, IT'S GOOD.

MY I I DAVE, I I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

MY daughter's in fourth grade.

I can embarrass her by just smiling.

My son is seemingly impervious to embarrassment. He has this It's I wish I could bottle it up and and sell it because I would be richer than these AI guys. It's amazing. Hm. I make a joke, and he's just like, "Okay, that felt good, Dad." And I'm Oh.

Hit the ball back across the net.

>> at the dinner table, I made a crass joke, but it was a good one, and you don't know shame until your 15-year-old looks at you without a smile and goes, "Dad, when are you going to grow up?" Oh. And I was like, "Oh, man. Well played, son. Well played." And he was right, too. That was the worst part. Oh.

Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Yrefi. Defaulted

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That's the letter y r e f i dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. >> All right, this is an awesome question, Dave. Today's question comes from Megan in New Jersey. Megan writes, "I was recently in a car accident and my vehicle was totaled. My emergency fund paid for my hospital bill and my parents lent me five grand so I could buy a reliable used car. Most of my remaining debts are smaller than they're loan to me, but I hate owing them money.

Dave said to pay them back, quote unquote, "whenever I can," but I feel terrible whenever I talk to them. I have $25,000 left in student loans and another 5,000 bucks on credit cards.

Would it be okay to just pay them first and then resume my debt snowball?"

I like that question cuz I in my guts

it's out of order from how we teach it,

but owing my dad money feels worse than owing the IRS.

You know what I mean? He can't garnish my wages, but man, I get that feeling she has.

>> Yeah, I understand. That's That's an honorable person, too. No kidding.

That's good. Yeah, so Megan, we list our debts smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one first.

So, that would and you know, I'm guessing you You said credit cards and 5,000. So,

I'm guessing there's a lots of little ones or a few little ones that total up to 5,000. So, you would knock those out first and then you would knock this out. The good news is the $10,000 from now you're done except for student loans. And so, that's a really,

really aggressive part-time job for just a few months. Just to like like and channel that Yeah, just channel all of that that discomfort right at those credit cards first. Cut them up and then list them and get yourself on a super tight budget, like beans and rice, rice and beans, and

um you know, and then add income. And look around, what can I sell? What can I sell? Now, here's another thing I want to throw out that's not asked here, but

um

it's a $5,000 car, so it the answer might be that she didn't have insurance on it. But, I want to remind all of you that when you get a in a car accident and your car is totaled and you have insurance that pays the car, pays for the car, that is not a reason to upgrade.

Replace it and go further into debt.

>> So, I'm guessing though that maybe she did not have collision on a $5,000 car and so when it got totaled, it was just lost it. She just lost the money. And I want to add something else that's not in here. And this is coming from a parent who my son's about to turn 16. Like, there's a chance this is me, right? I hope not, but it can feel like you're helping bail out your kid when you loan them five grand.

I would much rather her parents give her five grand than create this tension in there. If they feel like they want to help, they want to support their kid or whatever, I would much rather that be a gift. And I don't obviously, who knows what happened here and there's so many different things, but Yeah. So, but dad participates in making this an awkward relationship, too. Yeah.

I I'll just jump in on that side of this equation and say, from our perspective here, from almost 40 years of doing this, helping people

with their money and and and clean up money messes that they have made,

I'll make a bold statement. Parents should never, under any circumstances,

loan their children money. I second that. Period.

As a matter of fact, you should not loan any relatives money under any circumstances.

Period. If you have the money to help them and you want them to have the money, give it to them. If you're not willing to give it to them, shut up.

But, I want to be paid back after I helped you with your misfortune and I'm going to feel good about me when you pay me back after I helped you with your misfortune.

That's bass-ackwards, people.

So, no. Uh you know, if you want to help them, help them. If you don't want to help them, don't help them. But, don't make them owe you money because Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master and the borrower is slave to the lender. The The interest payment on that is your relationship. Oh, I That's the interest. >> Leaves notches in the belt at a minimum.

Yeah. Wow.

James is in Lynchburg, Virginia. Hi, James. What's up?

How you doing, gentlemen? Great. How can we help? Um I have a interesting uh dynamic going

on. So, um we own a small

rental home that we are close to having paid off and it's probably worth about 175 Mhm. at the current market. Mhm. Um

we owe about 15,000 left on it. Mhm. Um

on their our current home >> Mhm. and land that where we we the land

that the current home that we live in is on is is uh we owe 15,000 left on that.

And we cash-rolled um and self-built the home itself. So, we don't owe anything on the house. So, um 12-15 months or so, we'll be done um paying on both of these things. Mhm.

Now, I put all eggs in that basket for the last 10 years.

Um How old are you? >> All cash we had went into that. So, with the hope that uh in the plan that >> How old are you? >> 10 years I am 40 four almost. Okay. All

right. So, um you know, I'm think with that we wouldn't have to worry about paying for a ever again because we've been doing that long enough. >> wouldn't have done that, but we're there. How can we help? Yeah, no no doubt. Um so I have no appreciable retirement savings obviously for putting all those eggs in that basket. >> Yeah, which is why I wouldn't have done it. Okay. Right, I understand.

Obviously that's some level of stressful for me. Mhm. And uh um you know, here soon enough there'll be, you know, wide open rental income that will come in associated with that. We'll have, you know, freedom from the mortgages and things like that. >> What what does the What does the house rent for?

Um currently it's at a thousand. I have a it's it's valued at more, but I have a uh I have a widow in there and I can't charge her any more than we currently are. So Okay. Okay. So you've got an asset that's not maximized. Okay, that's fair.

>> Yes, correct. Yep. All right. Correct.

And um you know, I'm looking I'm just juggling around this and my wife and I been kicking it around. Me mostly me kicking it mostly me mostly her telling me not to do it um of

selling it and investing that money then into um some form of retirement savings and I wanted some feedback on that instead.

Um well, not not counting the arrangement

which I I endorse you helping a widow.

Endorse anyone helping a widow. That's biblical. Um and you're making you know, about 7% on your money cuz 175,000 you're making 12,000 minus expenses. So you're probably making probably 5% on your money on this rental house plus it's going up in value.

Um it's not a bad investment and someday you will be able to get full rent out of it whenever she's gone, okay?

Or whenever that arrangement stops for whatever reason. Um Sure. What keeps you from beginning your retirement investing now fairly aggressively since you don't have any payments.

Well, I do have payments on the property that that we built on to our current home.

>> Uh 15,000. I know, but you're going to be done in just a few months on both of them, you told me, right? Yes, that's right. >> I was calculating. I'm talking about a few months from now you're 100% debt free. What's your household income?

Uh about an 85 to 90. Okay. So, start

saving 20% of your income into good retirement or 25% of your income into good retirement. You don't even have a stinking house payment.

And put fill up your 401k, fill up some Roth IRAs, and get with a good SmartVestor Pro at Ramsey Solutions, and that account alone will be millions of dollars when you get when you're 65, 25 years from now.

Okay. And and and keep the houses.

Okay. You don't have to give up the house to have a retirement plan.

You got plenty of time, and you have a good income, and you have no debt.

But make make space make space in the middle of your chest for this feeling that's going to come.

I thought that if I had a house outright and I had a rental house outright, that then me and my wife could just do whatever we wanted with our money.

Nope. And you have a debt to pay to future you.

Of course. Right? And so, you're still going to have to watch your income. You're still going to be putting a sizeable chunk away.

It's not going to go It's not going to go to a house payment, but it is going to go to future you. Right. And so, expect to feel like, "Oh man, I thought we were going to be free of all this budgeting and all No, man, we still got to stay tight on it because we're going to get 85 or 90 years old one day." Yeah, as the the same intensity you were using or maybe not quite as much to clear up these two mortgages, we're just going to turn most of that cash flow and some of that intensity into a retirement planning system, into 401ks and Roth IRAs with your SmartVestor Pro, and promise you do, that's going to be millions of dollars.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Dr. John Delony, best-selling author Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Clay is

in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi Clay, how are you?

Hi Dave. Good. How about you guys?

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Yeah, so um just kind of really overwhelmed. Um don't really know how to attack my debt. Um the majority of my income is going to rent and a car.

And um it I need both of those things. I need a place to live in and I need a car to drive to work. So Mhm.

Yeah, um just need help getting out of here. Got you.

What do you make?

Um I make about 2,200 a month.

Okay, think we found the problem.

What do you do? Yeah.

Um so I currently work in construction.

Mhm.

How old are you?

33. And uh how much do you owe on your car?

Uh it's a little under 20,000. Mhm. Okay.

And how much is your rent? >> make Sorry, I did make a little bit more. Um but a portion of my wages are going to

some tax debt and student debt.

Yeah, okay.

And um

how much is your rent?

Uh 750. Okay. All right. Currently also

dealing with a pest issue that's taking up some more of the income.

A pest issue?

Yeah. >> That's That's why you rent, brother.

Your landlord would be taking care of the pest issue.

Yeah. Says it's on me.

But, yeah.

It's a Like there's not an easy way to say this. You got to make a lot more money.

Okay. What do you What do you do on a construction site?

Uh, so I work in an office, like a design office. I'm a I'm a Yeah, we provide products. But, I mean, are you in some sort of apprenticeship that this is all going to double and triple and quadruple in two years, four years, or is this kind of it for you?

Um, this kind of it. Uh, before that I worked in behavioral health as a like a

tech. Mhm. Um, just kind of ran out of options there and looked for another field and construction was kind of up and a good opportunity there.

W- But, the opportunity in construction is are you a builder? Are you a craftsman?

Right? But, you're the guy servicing those guys, right?

Correct. Yeah.

I get the projects in the door. Yeah.

So, um, I mean, there's several things going on, but um, one of them is that you just have an income problem, for sure. And there's two ways to fix that. Uh, one is the extra part-time job in the meantime while you're developing a career track where you go instead of making $30,000 a year, you go try to find a way to make 90. And that's very doable in today's world.

And it may take you a few It may take you a hot minute. You may have to go take some classes. You may have to do You don't have to get a 4-year degree, but you may have to learn some things you don't know now. And but you're going to set your sights differently than just uh whatever the next JOB is

because you're starving to death. That's thing one. Thing two is if you have a low income, it does not give you a pass

on math.

And I How in the world someone loans you

$20,000 on a car that wasn't smoke and crack, I don't know. You don't make enough to have a $20,000 car and that debt.

No wonder. >> about Yeah. You're you're you're dying.

>> Yeah. Yeah. How much could you get for that car if you sold it today?

Um so I did a quick like estimate on

um Carvana and they offered nine thousand.

Yeah, I bet they did. Look up Kelly Blue Book what the private party sale value is. Yeah, and that's probably more like 16. Yeah.

Okay. And then then dig up the difference and let's get the car sold.

Yes, you need a car to get to work. No, you don't need a $20,000 car to get to work.

You just need a you need a beater, a hoopty that runs and and gets you over to work cuz you're not driving to a $200,000 a year job, you're driving to a $25,000 or $30,000 a year job and you're

driving a $20,000 car over there.

That's doesn't fit in this picture. It shouldn't even be in this picture. We shouldn't be having this discussion.

There's no possible way.

Um it's not good for you. It's bad for you. So uh I'm going to move you out of that car into a hoopty, get you out of debt, and increase your income, and um

then I'm going to start uh learning about what my lease actually says about pest control. In most states,

the landlord is in charge of pest control unless the tenant is such a freaking slob that they caused rats to

be in the place. In which case you may be in charge of it. So, I don't know what we're dealing with, but um Hey Clay, I I here's the one I want you to reframe this. The way you described your life as is as though this is happening to you. Mhm. And I want you to visualize yourself getting in the driver's seat of your own freaking life.

And hitting the gas and going forward that way.

Your your taxes didn't just not pay themselves. >> of your own destiny. >> That's it. Your taxes didn't just not pay themselves. Your boss is paying you what you're accepting.

Um you're you bought a car that like I want you to own this thing. And that's the only way you're going to get out of it cuz cuz life just keeps happening to me over and over. Get in the driver's seat and say, "What do I want this thing to look like in a year, 2 years?" And let's head that way 1,000 miles an hour, man. Yeah.

The people that um that that get along in this world that that we call successful are the ones that leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. They don't sit in the cave and wait on a duck to fly in already cooked. >> Mhm. And that's what you're talking about is Dr. Stephen Covey's book is a great one to read, Clay. It's called The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.

The number one habit of the seven, the first one, is to be pro that highly effective people are proactive, what John's talking about. They happen to things, things don't happen to them. That's the definition of proactive.

And so, you know, when in doubt, you bust something, not get busted.

When in doubt, you you know, we're going to hit something. Something When in doubt, we're going to be a man of action. Uh when in doubt, we're you know, and and and we're going to be slow enough

that we're wise enough that we don't buy a $20,000 car when we make $25,000.

We're going to be slow enough and wise enough that we pay our taxes on time.

We're slow enough and wise enough that we're reading the lease and um or not leaving a dump in some guys

landlord's house so that he has a pest problem because you brought it there. Or you didn't bring it there and he's being a twerp and we need to hold his feet to the fire. Hey dude. Yeah, the law actually says you fix this.

And here here's what your lease that you gave me says. It says you fix this. I own a bunch of rental houses.

We do all the pest control.

And I don't have any tenants that create pest problems. If I do that tenant doesn't stay there.

Cuz they're tearing up my house is what that means. No, thank you.

So, you know, these are proactive things that I do.

So, that that's >> I I think I I think I just got to say Again, I don't want to toot my own horn here, but I was the dean of students at the law school in Texas.

I drove a $3,500 truck.

And when I got my job here at Belmont, Nashville, I drove a 17,000 I really upgraded, man, to 17,000 You were making a lot more than Right. So, it's like listen, man, like drive what you can afford. Happen to your life. I got I got to do this. You don't, man, especially when it comes to a depreciating asset.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

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Shelley is in Washington, D.C. Hi Shelley, how are you?

I'm doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

All right, so I'm I'm pretty new to watching your show and so I've just

really wanted to reach out because me and my husband are in a big mess financially and we can't seem to get on the same page.

Um I'll kind of run down some numbers for you. It's It's pretty bad. Um we have a student loan debt for my

student loan debt 52,000.

We have federal tax debt 12,000.

We have a mortgage 175.

And then we have personal loans

um that total about 331,652.

We have credit cards um all together that total 152,168.

And then we have business loans that are 199,382.

And business credit cards that are about 65,156.

So we we have a big mess and um >> So you have a business that is failing.

Um yes, the business has has been struggling in the past. Yeah, you're not you're not making money and you've been financing it with all these loans.

Correct. Having too many people on payroll and not having You're not making a profit for whatever reason and you've been financing it for how long?

How long's it been since you made a profit? >> Uh Well, I mean, technically I did make a profit um these last two years, but obviously I'm paying loans, so the interest um is

obviously only part I can that that cash flow I I don't have any cash.

Um Yeah, you're but you've been using I mean, you you didn't use these credit cards, these business loans, these personal loans, these other credit cards all to finance the purchase of the business. You've been operating it at a loss and feeding it.

Okay. Yes, so from from my portion, um

yes, I've been feeding the business with the debt to >> And all of this debt was created by this business?

No. No. My my husband, he um took He had

an idea to pull money balance transfers off of his cards and his personal loans to put it in the stock market to invest.

Um so, first year he made a lot of money, we had a big tax bill. The second year we had a lot that we owed and um

he never repaid those loans and credit cards that he pulled money off of. So,

his debt is about 360 of this, which is

from him pulling lines of credit, got a business loan, um and business credit cards. So, his debt >> So, does anybody around there work?

Yes. Like for a job to make money?

My My husband has a W-2 job.

>> What does he make?

About 120 a year. Yeah, and what was the profit on your business that you paid taxes on last year.

57,000 Okay.

Do you all both agree that you'll have a mess?

Yes. Do you all both agree that you want it to go away?

Yes. Okay. It's just the method of So my

husband got a bonus for about 12,000 and

so since I've been listening to you I was like, well we'll do the snowball babies. That's the smaller that's off.

Just forget about the $300 a month. Um he he's he wants to pay on a a personal

loan that's for $40,000 and he wanted to put it towards that to get the balance down, but as soon as he was we're arguing about it and then he called in and it went into collections.

So now it's in collections cuz he hasn't been paying it and he didn't have enough money to pay it. So now he's still wanting >> money that he made on the stock trades he put back into the stock market and lost it?

Yes. So he was day trading? He never he

he never paid any of the like I know he didn't pay the taxes, but also you said he made a profit that caused taxation. That's where taxes come from.

>> Yeah. And then that profit he might not have not only which means he might not only made the money back so he borrowed $60,000 on a credit card or whatever and he put it in the market. He got the $60,000 back plus money.

Didn't pay the taxes and put all of that back into the market and then lost it.

So the first year that he did that which would have been 2020 he did we did pay our tax bill. It was like 25,000 I think it was last year.

>> Where's the money? Did he lose it or not? He had the money and he paid it in full that year. Now the money that he made in

the stock market, where did it go? He

put it back in the market and lost it, didn't he? Yes. Okay, that's all I want to know.

You don't have any money is what I'm trying to establish.

Yes, that's correct. >> None of the money that was made is there anymore. It's all gone. Okay, do you own

anything other than your home? Um

uh he has car, um he doesn't have a loan

on it. And then I have uh vehicle that I don't have a loan on.

Okay, so your business doesn't have any assets.

Oh, it does. Sorry. It It does. I have desk, computers, tables, Mhm. laptops. What's What's your gross revenues on the business?

330 or 25. Okay.

How many employees?

Right now I'm down to one. Um Okay. I I

I let them go um What do you do? What's your trade? What's your skill?

I have a tax and accounting business.

Couldn't you make more than 57 working for somebody else?

I actually did. Um the end of 24 I got a

job, a full-time job, uh making 110, and then I got laid off in June in August. >> Okay, you need to go get another one.

Yeah. Yeah, cuz you need the income to be able to We need the income to be able to learn lean into this. Okay, and then back to your original question, y'all are arguing about what to pay off first and so forth. Um not counting your mortgage, you have a long road ahead of you.

So, the first thing we need to do is establish two principles before we begin to attack the debt. Principle number one is no more day trading.

97% of day traders over 3-year period of time lose money.

So, no more stupid schemes.

Okay? Second principle is businesses that don't make a profit are a bad hobby.

They're not a business.

If it's not making a solid profit,

if you work your full to your new full-time accounting job and you can run 57,000 out of this thing on your own as a side hustle in profit, and you know the difference in profit and gross, then keep it open. But, if you can't make a profit, you do not borrow any more money to keep it open.

You close it.

Okay? You fed this thing enough, and he's fed his uh craziness enough. Can I throw a third

principle in, Dave? >> Mhm. Third principle, Shelly, is

Yeah. for this to work, you're going to need all the like synchronicity and momentum that y'all two can muster together. Mhm. And so, y'all are going to have to decide this is our debt.

We both have done some dumb things.

>> done this, and we're both going to attack this stuff together. You you will never conquer this thing if he's responsible for paying off his and you try to pay off yours. >> Exactly. Then, pull the mortgage out of the equation, list all of these debts individually, smallest to largest, and begin to pay them in that order after the $12,000 tax bill is paid.

$12,000 tax bill is the first thing, and that should have been paid out of his bonus or If he's got that $40,000 bonus laying there, pay the IRS. Get You do not want the IRS. I mean, you're in tax and accounting, you know this. You don't want to owe the IRS money.

List your debts smallest to largest.

Now, if he's making 120, you're making 110, you're making another 50, we're up in the two $300,000 range now.

We're living on nothing, and we begin to attack this. Probably going to take you four or five years to clean up this mess, but it took you six or eight to make the mess.

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Dave is in Pittsburgh. Hey Dave, how are you? I'm doing good. Thank you for taking the call. >> Sure, how can we help?

So, I'm a huge fan with you guys. I've been watching for five years. I just want to say you guys are doing absolutely miracle work. So, the question is, right now, me and my wife are thinking about relocating and we are

thinking about having a kid as well within one year to a year and a half.

So, our planning definitely want to buy a house and to build the good memories for our future kids.

So they can have a good memory and kind of build a good foundation with that.

And so my question is we either want to do 15% of 15 years fixed mortgage or 30

years fixed mortgage, or we're thinking about paying cash. I know your answer probably is going to be around the 15 years fixed mortgage or paying cash. But however, the problem is we are afraid we're not going to have enough cash flow because that my wife is

planning to not work and taking care of the kids, and that I will be having the only single income that we'll have.

Okay, so you don't have the cash.

Uh so right now we have my salary is 70k and she's doing

55k. We approximately net around Do you have the money in a pile to pay cash for the house? That's not really an option, is it?

Uh there is there is. So right now you're going to be very happy to hear this. I graduated my grad school and I

did paid off all my student loan debt with around 100k. And then we both net around 1.2 million. It's just investing in the mutual fund ETF bonds and stocks.

So you have a million dollars in mutual funds and bonds and stocks.

Yeah, that's approximately right. Yeah, depending on the valuation. >> Bro, lead with that next time. Yeah, so way to go. So no, I would not borrow money when I have a million dollars in investments. I would just take some of that and buy me a house.

Simple. Simple people. You know why Dave?

Cuz you have a million dollars.

So what how expensive a home are you thinking about buying, sir?

So we're looking at 350 to 380k.

>> Perfect. So 350 leaves you 650 in investments. You have no house payment.

There's no strain on your budget. Your wife can stay home with the babies.

Mhm. That's awesome, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Why would you not do that? >> Yeah, help us out. >> Why would you not automatically do that?

>> Pitch us on why this is a scary ideal.

Right, I think I'm just running the two scenario that usually the market return 10% but however, you know, when you pay down a house, uh you're going to guarantee return back 3.5% on the real

estate and also you have to avoid paying the Yeah, but your wife has to work.

Right and and and her plan is to not work once we have the baby. >> the point. You just took out a house payment and put her in a job for your little investment scheme that you think is real but you left out the fact that you're taking on risk and the peace that when your head hits the pillow, it goes to sleep.

When you have no payments, you make different decisions than when you have a house payment.

So, don't do that to your family. You have worked very hard and done a very good job saving money.

Use that money to buy a house or don't buy a house.

Be a renter. But I mean, are you What do you Do you own a home now?

So, right now we are renting. We are waiting We are waiting for And what is your income, Dave?

Uh so, I do 70K a year. >> does she make? >> 55. She do How did you get a million too with that income?

Uh I think there was uh I got lucky with some money investment and also fortunate and unfortunate because we got some inheritance. How much inheritance did you get?

Uh she roughly got around 200 to 300 and

kind of grew uh and then I got around 300 400 and kind of grew and we both kind of get around 1 mil. Okay, there it is. All right, so whoever whoever passed away and left you all this money bought you your first home and that's their blessing to you.

And you pay cash for it and that's what you're going to do if you're smart.

There's no way you need to be playing around with all this stuff. Emily's in Denver. Hi Emily, how are you?

Good and how are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Hey, so um I've carried most of the financial responsibility in my marriage the almost like past 6 years. My husband

says he wants the same financial goals but he feels the need to constantly spend doesn't follow through and won't take accountability. He also has a history of addiction and he recently racked up as of what I know at least 6,500 in credit card debt on things like

7-Eleven and used money I gave him for

or I money that I saved for a trip um on

his own personal spending and then added me as an authorized user to a credit card that I didn't agree to.

>> Is he using again Emily?

Is he what? >> Is he using again?

I don't know. You know.

You know. What do you think? I don't I I think his

behavior doesn't line up but I can't prove anything.

His behavior is a language. What's he telling you? He says he's using. Yeah, he's back. >> Uh but He's back.

>> want me. No, well he he he wants the

addiction. He's in the addiction.

>> Yeah. Yeah, addict can have no access to money. Yeah. None.

Okay. And somebody in recovery knows that.

Somebody who's back to using again and you've been down this road with him before are world-class manipulators, world-class distorters of reality and they make you feel like you're crazy, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. Yeah, so here's the deal. Um you're going to get I if if I'm you you sit down with him and say, "Okay, we're going to get you back into rehab, and get you back into some help, and you're relinquishing all control of all money until you've been dry for 2 years." And you need to put a freeze on your credit report the second you hang up this phone call, and that way nobody else can add you to any more debt.

How do I do that? Freeze it. You can go go online go online and you can freeze your credit report. It's a very easy to do. And it will do it across all three of the uh crediting like credit reporting bureaus. Yeah.

But you're you're This is hardcore, kiddo. The only chance he has is um and the only chance your marriage has is for him to stop using, and the first step is a complete confrontation.

And you know, he gets into a program. If he's not willing to get into a program, there's nothing you can do to save your marriage or your money.

You have to get away from him as fast as you can.

Because 100% of addicts burn down their world. 100% of them are broke.

Until they get some healing, until they get the other side of the addiction, get some sobriety, they all of them, regardless of what they're addicted to, whether it's sports betting or whether it's pornography or whether it's heroin, the 100% of them burn their world down.

We work with them every day because we are there while their finances are burning. Cuz you just light money on fire when you're addicted to something.

Just burn it right there in the middle of the kitchen table. And this guy's doing it. All the symptoms are there, aren't they?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Um and you know, I know you don't want it to be true. We don't want it to be true, either. But we also don't want you your don't want it to be true thing to allow you to walk around and act like it's not happening. It's happening.

Yeah, it drives me crazy cuz I can't prove it. I don't have to prove it.

>> We've got all the signs in front of us. And by the way, if if he's not using,

let's go one step darker. Um Where is he doing with the money? He absolutely doesn't care about your marriage, about how you feel, your safety at all cuz he's going crazy with this stuff. Right.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So if he's Thank you. If he's not using then man, he's got some issues.

Some character Yes, he's challenged. Yeah. All right, not even worse but or worse than or as bad in a different way maybe it's a better way to say. I I I You're going to need to get yourself your own checking account and get on your online bills.

I'm sure you already have this but where you're paying that you got electricity and light and like you're going to have to take ownership of this for a season. >> Yeah, you have to take over everything. You have to take your name off of any his name off of everything.

I hate this for you, kid. That's so he can buy gas in his car with cash which means he puts gas in the tank and walks into the store and pays for it and walks back out to the car like we used to do.

I did that recently. They took it. I know, it's amazing. It was awesome. That little walk changes your what you pay for gas.

Hey good folks, Dr. John Delony here.

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That's ramseysolutions.com/careers.

Our scripture today, Matthew 6:26. Look at the birds of the air. They do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

Earl Wilson said, "Money in the bank is like toothpaste in the tube, easy to take out, hard to put back." I like that. Pretty cute. Mary is in

Minneapolis. Hi, Mary. How are you?

I'm good. Thank you, Dave, for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

Well, I have a little bit of a dilemma.

I became a widow 4 years ago at the age

of 38. >> Wow, man. And my husband was a farmer.

He was 51.

Um and he left me with quite a bit of

assets. He left me with farmland, and of course our home, and then a million-dollar life insurance policy on top of that. >> Man. >> Wow. Huh. >> Um a lot >> What's the What's the What's the debt against >> against the farmland.

>> Oh, there's debt against the farmland?

Yes. >> How much?

Um close to 2 million. It's about 1.8.

>> And what's the farmland worth?

Around 6 million. Okay.

Right. So, what has the last 4 years looked like?

Um I continued to run the farm for 3 years. I had a farmhand that my husband trusted. He worked with him for a very long time. And he took over the farm. I

took over the business and we ran it for 3 years um successfully. We did We did

very well. Um and then he bought the

farm from me a year ago, 2025, January 2025.

So, I sold the farm. I didn't sell any of the farm land, but I sold the farm site and the equipment to him.

I'm sorry. What is the difference in a farm land and a farm site? Well, the farm site has the shop, the There's a home on it. There's um hog barns. And then it's just where It's just the home base for the farm. And then the farm land is what they grow the crops in. So, you own the land still?

I own the land, yes. And you have the debt still? And I still have some debt against the land, yes. Okay. So, where are we Where are we today and how can I help?

So, I'm looking at trying to pay down

some of this debt with the life insurance proceeds. I have about 1.1 million in in in cash. It's in a It's in

a investment portfolio.

Um but I wanted to pay down some of these smaller debts and I just was wondering if this is the right thing to do with this money. What are the smaller debts? The smaller ones, so there's a land There's one land mortgage for 40,000.

Um my home mortgage is 85,000.

And then the um there's an SBA loan for 125,000.

Okay. All right. Is there a business separate from the actual farm operation?

Um no. Okay. All right. So, the SBA loan is associated with the farm.

It is, yes. Okay. Now, when you sold the other piece of ground the other day to your farm hand, what did it sell for and where is that money?

It sold for 800,000, and that is a contract for deed with him, so that's where my monthly my income comes from is that contract for deed. Okay. So, he's paying you how much a month?

Um 72,000 or 7,200, sorry.

Okay. Is he also leasing the land from you that he farms?

Yes, he's also leasing the land, and there's a 10-year lease on it, so he will be farming it's 500 acres. He'll be farming it for the next 500 or 10 years. Um and that brings in about 120,000 a year.

But, he also put himself in kind of a pickle because if you sell this land, or if in 10 years

you want to do something else, he's bought this farm equipment, but he won't have anything to farm, right?

Right, he farms he farms around 2,000

acres, so he has some contracts with other farm land owners, so he's >> on the farmland is now down to what?

The balance on the farmland, let's see.

So, I have 1.1 million in one piece of land, and then there's 383,000 in another piece, and then the smaller one is just 40,000. I got you.

Okay.

All right. Okay. So, I think I've got the picture right. Um if I do, uh what I would do is to do what you're suggesting. I take 250,000 of your million and pay off the SBA and the 85 and the 40, right?

Okay. And then you're 100% debt free except for the two land mortgages.

Mhm. And you have an income of 7,200, which you can easily live on.

Yes. And 100% of the profits from the farm go to reduce debt at the farm on the land.

Yes. Yes, so the the profits coming from

the uh land the land rent is covering the

the payments for the No, not just the payments. You're making more than that. When in a in a given crop year on the acreage, your portion when he farms it

on your behalf, your portion is how much? It was 300 grand, wasn't it? Or 150 grand?

Uh yes, 120, I guess. 120, okay. And you have 300,000 on the small mortgage and a million on the other mortgage. So, in 2 years, the small mortgage is gone cuz you can put that whole 120 on it.

Oh, okay. Okay. And then we're going to do the same thing until we get rid of that whole million.

And so, by the time his lease is up, his 10-year lease is up, before it's up, this farmland's going to be free and clear.

Yes.

And then you're sitting on a 15 or 20 million-dollar net worth at that point.

Correct. Okay. Because the value of the land will have gone up, plus your investments will have gone up, cuz you got 650 invested that you're not touching either.

Because you're living off the 7,200 from the land contract on when you sold him the property. Mhm. Did I get that right?

You did, yes. Yep, that sounds that sounds about right. Mary, can I throw an alternative reality at you?

Yes. I I spent a big chunk of my life

out in West Texas where there's cotton farmers and cattle farmers.

The the conversations I had with those, especially those older men,

the the thing that I felt at the end of the day was giving them their core ordinary challenges was the debt on their farms.

Mhm.

It took one bad year to start a debt cycle that they could really never ever get out of. Mhm.

Is there any part of you that wants to sell this thing for $6 million and be done with it? >> And go have a different life?

There is not, no. I I I'm I'm not

opposed to selling maybe a hundred of the acres um down the road if I it if I run into that issue. I don't think I will, but I

don't want to sell the land. I want to hold on to it. It was it's family land it's my husband's family land and some of it was passed down. He actually bought 200 of the acres right before like a year before he passed away and that's where that 1.1 million Okay.

>> came in, but uh I'm more nervous about this than you are, so I'll keep that to myself, but just man I I just watching those farmers >> getting rid of all the little mosquito debts right now and then we've just got two big ones to knock and and the smaller one of those will be gone in two more years. So pretty quickly we're down to and the land goes up in value, so we got an 8 million two years from now we have an 8 million dollar piece of ground with a 900,000 dollar loan on it.

And that that doesn't scare me as much because then we're whittling away at it, whittling away at it and you love it and you're comfortable and and you've settled into this with a great rhythm.

I'm very proud of you. >> Yeah. I mean you really threw your you know, you really stepped into this kiddo. Well done. And what's your husband's name? Your ex you I mean your husband who passed away?

Kevin. Kevin, pretty awesome guy?

Oh my gosh, he was amazing. Yes. He was an amazing farmer, an amazing husband, a great dad. Yeah, he was he was he was a great guy.

I just always want to take a moment and a honor somebody by saying their name who passed away, but I also want to honor a husband who gave his wife the privilege of you got to grieve for as long as you wanted to. Yeah. Million dollar life insurance policy and a business that was right side up. You got to be sad for a season, not worry about where your next meal was going to come from and that's noble and honorable and and good for Kevin, man.

>> Yeah. He's a good man. He took care of his wife and she took care of business afterwards. Pretty incredible the dynamic duo there.

Yeah. Yeah, very cool. Congratulations, Mary. We're proud of you.

Very cool. Thanks for giving us the honor of talking that through with you. Yeah.

So yeah, just always be looking for a a way where the end of the story is I got zero debt because that always leads me to more wealth and more peace.

That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 41. Don't Let Fear Drive Your Financial Decisions | April 7, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Jason is in Spokane, Washington. Hi, Jason. How are you?

I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I'm a 41 years old and I'm married and have a family and I have $0 for retirement and I am looking for some guidance on how I might approach resolving that. Wow. Okay, cool. Um how

much debt do you have not counting your home?

$0. Oh, great. Well, that's good. And how much do you have in savings?

A little north of 3,000. Okay.

>> Okay, good start. Good deal. So, we teach something here called the baby steps. Are you familiar with that?

I am. Okay, great. So, then you know that you're really a a third of the way in and you're really at almost at the point where it's time to start investing. So, just as a recap for those who don't know, baby step one is you get a $1,000 saved. It's a cushion between you and life. After that, you pay off all of your consumer debt, which is basically everything except the house.

You've done that. And then after that, we save up three to six months of expenses. So, you've got 3,000 saved.

Um how much would you need to add to that in order to get it to about three to six months of basic expenses?

Well, believe it or not, that's actually right around three to six months of expenses for for us. A thousand dollars a month you live on? I I know. I know. We're actually in a kind of a a unique situation. We We do own a home, but it's paid off.

And we also have a small I mean, my wife and I have a small online retail business that uh kind of floats us. And so I'm actually personally right now I'm >> if you had Not if you lost your job.

That's not the point. The point is what's it take to operate your household a month? It takes more than a thousand dollars to do that.

So what No, we're $800 a month. $800 a month. That That runs everything without any income. >> after you buy food, how much do you need? Yes.

So we live completely off grid. We We own some acreage and I built the house.

We have no utility bill. We have no water bill. We have no garbage bill. We basically just have to pay for We have to pay for food. So you're like So what is your household income?

Uh we vary between one and two thousand a month just from the business that we have. So why are you so worried? No, no, no. One and two thousand dollars a month is your income?

Well, that's just from the business.

>> No, honey, I asked your household income.

That's our household income. Wow. Well, it do you So the only income you have is this business?

Well, what I was saying is that I'm actually have been employed. I I had a a

great job that I did for over a decade and I uh I ended that job to pursue the dream of building this off-grid property with me and my family and I spent the last 18 months I So I spent the last 18 months building this property while the business floated us. And now I am uh job

searching. So I actually have several job opportunities. >> Okay. Okay. So what will you be making when you land the new job?

The jobs I'm looking at are between 60 and 80,000 a year. Perfect. Thank you.

Okay, good. That gets us where I need to be. Now, so Anne, you're making about 24,000 or so on the business. So, you're going to make 100,000 give or take with the two combined and you have zero bills cuz you are completely off the grid.

Wow, look at you. Okay, I'm going to raise the three to thousand up just because it's just weird. Okay? It's wonderful

that you've done that, but I I you know, you ought to have 5 or 10,000 set aside in just liquid cash because the purpose is not just to cover monthly expenses.

The measure is monthly expenses on how to build it. But if your car transmission goes out or one of your solar panels or one of your solar panels fails or whatever it is where it happens in your world, the the pump in the well goes out, you know, you're going to end up needing more than three grand. So, let let's set the target as soon as you get employed, let's raise the three up to seven to 10, somewhere in there. And that's still fairly low, way low on average, but for

you, you know, it's going to it should be sufficient. Very interesting situation. Now, having done all that, that gets you to what we call baby step four. However, your house is paid off, so technically you're at baby step seven.

Okay? So, you should put 15%

of your household income or more

towards retirement when you get there.

If you do that in good growth stock mutual funds and we suggest and Jade has done it, Jade and Sam, Dave and Sharon, this how we do it. We put across four types of mutual funds, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. And so, if you start saving $15,000 a year in a couple of

Roth IRAs in good mutual funds and you do that or more between 41 and 71, you'll have several

million dollars.

Oh, wow.

Like It's not what I expected to hear. >> Like three or four, probably. Okay?

And so, you got plenty of time and the good news is it's very easy for you guys to do because you're used to living in the land of contentment.

In a culture that can't spell the word.

So you're you're you're very content people and one of the indicators of well the ability to build wealth is the ability to be content and not need every stinking thing that Instagram pops up, which is not you. You're the other end of that spectrum. I agree and and let's fill in those baby steps for anybody who is listening. So we left off on baby step three. He saved up the around 10,000 that Dave suggests.

Then baby step four, five, and six you do together and he really already had them done. Baby step four is like Dave said, investing 15% of your gross income. We would suggest doing that every month. Most people uh not this particular individual, not Jason, but a lot of us have employer sponsored accounts.

We can throw that money right into a 401k, 403b, whatever have you, TSP, whatever. Uh and then beyond that you can do baby step five, which is add to your kids child's you know your child's college fund. That can be a 529, an ESA. I don't even care if you put it in a brokerage, just put something aside for them.

We don't give a designated amount. It's up to you, your budget, and what you think will look like uh the higher education for your child. And then beyond that, yeah, we're paying off the house intentionally. Again, not a specific amount, but this is something you're being intentional about.

It's always a part of your budget. Most people who pay off their house early Dave Ramsey or doing that and somewhere between the 7 to 10 year mark. Is that about right? >> Yep.

And that's average. >> And then from there, yeah, your baby step seven, this is uh where Jason was, living like no one else, giving like no one else, and I can't stress this enough, Dave. This is the time you live like no one else, you give like no one else.

>> Enjoy enjoy some of it, yeah, but so if you save 1250 bucks a month, which is 15,000 a year, and you never get a raise

from 41 to 71 or from 41 to 67, you'll

have 2.2 million.

That would be on average stock market returns. That's where you would end up. And so, I was right. I just put it in I put it in the calculator. There's a retirement calculator. Any of you can do this at RamseySolutions.com.

You can jump on there and run the retirement calculator and figure out, you know, different scenarios, what would you have based on what you have now, how much time you have, what you think returns are going to be. I put in 11%. The S&P has averaged 11.8% since it

began, which is a Standard & Poor's index on the stock market.

>> I think playing with an investment calculator is probably one of the most motivating. >> Yes, it's so motivating.

>> that $1,250 car payment just cost you 2 million bucks. >> Ooh. Step on that.

>> Jeez.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no

whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's a discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

And that's why Zander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander Insurance for over 25 years

and so has my family. So, don't wait.

It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Sherry is in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Sherry. How are you?

Hi, thank you. Good.

Good. How can we help?

Um so, my question is uh what to do with my slush fund? So, I was speaking to my husband probably like 8 months ago and I was like, "Hey, how do you feel?" Cuz we have all these Ramsey envelopes and got we have a vacation fund but it's used for something else. It's kind of like a vacation but I was like, "Hey, what if >> I'm sorry. You don't use your vacation fund for vacations? >> We do but it's like sports trips and stuff for like for the kids.

Okay. >> kind of So, we declare travel sports to be vacations, okay?

Well, okay. So, I went to him and I was like, "Hey, he knew I always liked vacations and taking my kids on vacations either to the beach once a year or planning a big trip every 2 years and saving for it.

Um so I was like, "What do you think about me making this slush fund?" He's like, "So just to do what you want with it?" And I was like, "Sure." So 8 months later I've got about 9,400 in there. And all from working overtime. It's not from my salary. It doesn't take away from the family whatsoever.

And I was like, "Hey, I want to take I think I this is more than enough for all seven of us, but I think I can take us on a pretty good vacation." He's like, "Yeah, we don't need vacations." Okay.

Well, because he wants to create generational wealth.

And that's giving the >> Yeah, but I thought we already had a budget that included saving for generational wealth.

Well, that's like retirement

>> generational wealth. Are you doing the things One of the One of the indicators of being able to spend on extravagant vacations is that you're doing the other things that make you a financially responsible adult, right? So if you're already in If you're already out of debt, right? You're already a person who budgets, you're already a person who's saving for the future through things like investing your 15% by having that that fully funded emergency fund.

If you're doing those types of behaviors, you have you know, life insurance, you're generous, all those things. Yes, you can turn around and take a 95 or 9,400 trip. But if you're not doing those things, you do need to go back and reassess. So why is it that your husband is saying no?

Why do you think he's saying no to this? >> put it back.

with both of our salaries. He wants to include it. And I'm like, "No, it's not included. It's overtime.

So it doesn't take away from anything." But then I sat on it for a couple of days and I'm like you know what? I think I want to help my son out with college more. No, here's the problem. I'm going to point to the problem.

The problem is you guys aren't aligned and you weren't using our money as our money. You're doing something over here, then there's money over here that's allotted for something but it's not really being used for that. Then there's money over here that he has a plan for. I think what will really help you guys is getting aligned and saying, "First off, our money is our money and it's going in one big pool.

It's in one checking account and with this money, here are the things that we've decided our priorities." Right?

yes, let's make sure we're putting the right amounts for retirement, which is wealth building, generational wealth, whatever you want to call it, right? That money's going there and that's been earmarked for that. Then after that, you guys can also say, "Look, there's money left. We've We've covered our 15%.

There's more money. What do we want to do with that? Do we want to take a vacation?" Maybe the answer is yes. We put a little money there. Does that make sense?

Yeah, and we have all of that going on.

>> No, you don't. Otherwise, you wouldn't have called. >> No, you don't. You You have your own little world over here that you created with overtime and then you're pissed cuz he wants to reach into it.

You're not doing what she said. What she said is all the money goes in one pile. We decide together before the month begins where all the money is going to go. His, yours, ours, overtime, nobody.

And if you have a slush fund, it's because there's a line item in that budget that says, "We're setting aside a certain amount for uh Sherry's slush fund," which is perfectly fine to do.

that budget. But not having this little side world over here that we have that's a fantasy world based on your overtime and then we get to just fight over what we do with that later. Uh that fight should have occurred when that money was in the pile with all the other money and we say, "All right, are we putting enough aside for kids' college? Are we putting enough aside for retirement? Are we putting enough aside for a vacation?" And you ought to be doing all three of those.

Right. So, I think the the bigger issue is when I went back and said, "Okay, I've thought about it. I want to help my son with more with college." Because throughout the years, I haven't made as much money and I've saved as much as I could, but it hasn't been a lot. And so, he he like, "Yeah, let's put let What number do you have?" So, I gave him a number and I was like, "Well, it's not going to be enough.

I want you to quit treating your overhead sep- overtime separately.

This the third time we've said this.

It's not a separate issue. Well, that's why I called. I wanted I wanted a different perspective. >> part of the overall pile of money in the

household. And if we your income and his income, plus or minus overtime, is not enough to fund the kids' college, we have a different issue. Mhm. You guys have a blended family? Yes. Okay, so I think that's part of the I I think that's where the separation is coming in. You're thinking this is my son from a previous time. I can put money on the side to deal with that issue. And I think you just have to view this, again, one pile of money.

>> that boy as his cuz he married you.

Okay. Like the two of you When he married you, he took on the responsibility of loving you well, which includes loving him well.

Right. And I want him to look at that, regardless of what you have made or what you What his income is versus your income, all one big pile of money to live our life. Our life is I have a son

that was with me when we got married and you said for better for worse and it includes him.

And, you know, we are doing this together. We are loving this kid well.

We are going to send this kid to school.

We are going to save for retirement and have generational wealth. I agree with that. It's a great goal. We are going to go on a nice vacation. I agree with that. It's a great goal.

So, all of the goals are fine. The process you're using is what's causing your disagreement.

Because you're still trying to run around over here and not making as much as him, but going ahead and pouring on the hours to take care of your son from a previous marriage cuz he isn't.

Or you don't feel like he should have to. I disagree. I think he should have to. When he married you, he married that kid. >> Mhm. And this is you better love them both better love them all just alike.

Treat them all just alike. That's how the Brady Bunch operated. That's why they stayed in their little squares.

And so, um you know, this is what we do. So, you you guys have all that you're both saying correct things. And neither one of you're afraid of work. You know, so the correct things are I want to build generational wealth. I want to provide college for the young man. I want to go on a nice vacation. All of those things just need to become line items in the budget. Now, here's where the rub is going to come when you do that. You, Sherry, are the natural spender. Your husband is the natural tightwad. The saver.

And for him, you're God sent you to him

so he learns to have fun.

He sent God sent him to you so you retire with dignity and don't have to eat dog food.

Because you're going to have some money saved because of this man. He won't let it be any other way. And you're there to make sure he has fun.

Cuz this guy don't know how to lighten up. He'd live in a cave, collect lint, and only come out on triple coupon Thursday. You know, lighten up, dude.

Let's go on a nice vacation. You guys make a lot of money. I can smell it. He does and when they're all combined, including this overtime, and she made $9,000 in 10 months.

>> Yeah. >> They're doing all right. >> 12 months and overtime.

>> Mhm. That's great. None of you're afraid of hard work. You're good people. So, let's just sit down and say, "Okay, these are things we're going to agree on and in the overall picture, what number are we going to put on each one?" And I want you to go on vacation.

And I want you to find the voice college. And I want you to build generational wealth. And you can do every bit of that when you lay it out and use the baby steps. So, quit living separate lives off to the side, folks. It does not work. It All it does is create strife, anxiety, and we're still measuring against the past. We're still saying, "You know, I brought this child into this marriage." Yeah, but but he was there. It's not It was not a secret.

It was part of the package.

And you're worth it. You guys are worth it to go on vacation. So, yeah, so everybody does get to win. It's just a matter of how much and when and in what order.

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Nashville. Hi Ray, how are you?

Hey Dave, thank you for taking my call.

I'm a long-time listener. Thank you for your valuable advice throughout the years. >> Thank you, Sean. Uh reason I'm reason I'm calling, about 40 years ago I was a pilot in the Navy and I took out a $50,000 service uh men's uh group life

insurance policy. Uh it was about $50 a

year, I believe, and back then uh $50,000 actually was a lot of money.

Mhm. Um throughout the years I kept the policy uh after the first Gulf War uh I got hired by a major airline in 1991.

And as the years went on, I continued with my group life. And then when I was in my 40s, I picked up a 30-year

uh term policy for $500,000,

uh which will hold me until I turn 74.

Um in this this last December, I turned

65 and by law, I was forced to retire as

an airline pilot. So, I am now retired with a fixed income of my pension, social security. My wife took an early social security uh at 63 partly because

she needed insurance policy like a medical insurance policy to gap her until she gets on uh Medicare.

So, the status that I have right now, I have no um uh no liens. I have no loans at all. My house is paid for. Why you want to go, right? We're empty nesters. Uh school has been

uh all the college is behind us.

I have about a million and a half in my uh 401k and IRA. And uh I have quite a

bit of cash. And uh so, our question is

after you turn 50, the the group life policy, it seems like the premiums just go exponentially higher and higher. I'm sure you're very familiar with this.

Mhm. And then 65 is another tier that it hits. Um my question is uh

uh When I was flying, I I felt I felt as though I wanted to have as much insurance as I possibly could. Uh I was doing international flying. Things can take place overseas and I wanted to make sure I was fully insured that my wife would have a good uh nest egg in the event that something happened. So, now that I'm not flying anymore, I'm questioning whether it makes sense to continue this group life policy. Um

it It does not.

Yeah, it's uh it makes sense at all.

>> And the the reason is very simple. If you canceled both life insurance policies and you died tomorrow,

your wife's got a million and a half dollars plus a pile of undisclosed number of cash.

I think she's okay, dude.

Well, uh here's the thing. Uh she has longevity in her family and her mother is 97 and the way she lives and eats, she's going to succeed me by 100%

75% of the ladies outlive their husbands. That's not the point. The point is How How big is this pile of cash you mentioned? Uh it's it's about a million cash.

>> Oh, boy. So, we have two point two mi

two point five million dollars.

Okay, if that were invested in a decent mutual fund and let's just pretend for easy numbers, it produced 10% a year

without touching the principal, the 10% would be $250,000.

I think mama's okay, honey.

Well, I tell you she's going to live to be a hundred and a You she can't make it on 250k?

Even if she even if she went and >> make it on $250,000 a year?

I'm sure she could. >> All right, it's my point.

Yeah. You're self-insured because you've done an extremely good job, Ray.

Um you know what? I've listened to your your uh tutelage throughout the years and uh we were we were debt-free as as early as we could and uh that that's that's probably the best message that you should that you sent. Well, thank you, sir. I appreciate that.

But I I just want to tell you, you're what you've been you know, all these years you've been living on less than you made, you got out of debt, and you've invested. And now you're sitting on two and a half million dollars. You win the prize. You did it.

You're a Baby Steps millionaire.

Very well done, sir. And uh the point is

is that good financial planning that creates this kind of net worth with no debt makes you become self-insured.

Okay? I'll give you another example that's not in your on your plate. Okay?

I'm your I'm 65, okay? Sharon and I have

it all written out. We have hundreds of millions in our case of net worth and we're not going to a nursing home.

Something happens, I'm just going to hire full-time staff and put them in my house.

I can afford it. I can hire an MD and put them in the spare bedroom.

Right? It's not a problem cuz I'm self-insured through this. I'm not being arrogant, but the point is the money creates enough money to cause you to be able to live out your golden years the way you want to live them out and you're in that situation without ever touching the nest egg, without being irresponsible or rash. What do you think that is, Dave? Um I feel like there's many times where we will present a mathematical equation of

how someone will prosper. We can say things like, "Hey, you'll have enough money to be able to do this, this, and that." And they're still like, um the light doesn't go on of yes, that's true.

What is that? Where where it's just it's almost like cuz even in this case, I almost felt like he didn't believe us and there's been many calls where we we've we've painted out this this elaborate picture of what someone's life can look like and it's just like it's almost like they don't believe us when we say things like, "Hey, folks are paying their houses off. Hey, if you do this, you'll have a million dollars or you'll have 3 million dollars." Well, it's it's a it's not a good it's got it's a grotesque metaphor, but it popped into my head.

Okay?

And that you you know, they they go in and do an operation and the doctor comes in and goes, "We got it." You don't need You don't need radiation. You don't need chemo. You we got it. And you go, "Yeah, but I'm fighting cancer." No, we got it.

You did it. You won.

Yeah, but I'm fighting No, no, we got it. That's the That's the conversation. Yeah. It it's just take cuz you're in such You're in warrior mode and the battle's over. Lay the sword down. You know? You've been You've been living like no one else. Now it's time to live and give like no one else. >> And trust that the process works.

>> down. You won. Battle's over. There's no one left to kill. Everybody's gone.

You know? It's just But you're still out there just swinging because you you're just in that mode and it Yeah, but you're okay. But you're okay. Yeah, but you're okay. Yeah, but you're okay. And

it just it It's like when you run through the finish line it takes a few steps to slow down. You don't just suddenly come to a stop.

>> And and I think that's that's the only psychology thing I only way I can answer the psychology of it. He really wasn't arguing with us. His brain is just in

saving invest mode and make sure everybody's okay mode. Mhm. Everything he did was to take care of his family.

I I mean, I was traveling overseas, internationally. I wanted to make sure I had life insurance. All of everything was serving his family. It's a wonderful spirit.

And he's like, "I want to make sure." Yeah, but you're okay. Yeah, but I want to make sure. Yeah, but you're okay. And and that that's a wonderful place to be because that's the kind of person who gets there is they get this the blinders on and they're not listening to all the outside world and they're able to focus and get out of debt and they're able to focus and and put money in that 401k.

I mean, that guy's a star.

>> What's interesting was we took the call earlier from the 41-year-old. >> Yeah. And we told him he'd have two and a half million. >> Yeah.

Ray's got two and a half million.

That's true. Yeah. And he's 65. I mean, you know, They're reflections of each other. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's like proof text, right? Yeah.

It really does work. Yeah. This is This is what we're doing. And and and Well, what if Yeah, what if? I mean, what if you don't save any money? You know, that you're not going to have any money. Hello, there's a direct correlation between people that save money and people that have money. Who knew?

And so um yeah, you you know, I don't know anything in investments just cuz you don't invest. Hello. Yeah. Yes. But Ray Ray's an investor man. He's a he's a stud. >> He's done the whole $1 million cash.

>> Yeah, that's a little cray-cray right there. You need to get that invested, right? >> Yes, you do. >> Yeah. Wow. But that it's I'm so happy I was able to continue doing the show so long that now I'm seeing these people Yeah.

who are asking me the question, I've got too much. What do I do now? That was not a question in the early days of this show I thought I would ever hear. Right.

They started with you and now they're finishing with you and you see the product of it. >> "Oh, my car got repoed, Dave." Like that's the only question I got in those days.

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Sally is in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi Sally, how are you?

Hi, I'm good today. Thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

So, my question is about um debt relief

in a low-income situation.

Okay. What's your income?

Um I get Social Security Disability.

I've been I'm 64.

And I have been getting Social Security Disability for 2 years.

Um it's about $2,700.

>> Oh, 2,700 a month. Okay.

What's the nature of your disability?

>> year. $27,000 a year.

>> per year. Okay.

So >> and that includes a um uh small pension.

Okay. So >> And so you're making a a $2,500 $2,300 a month. Okay.

And um how much is your rent?

It's about $1,700 a year, uh a month

rather. And I I I live in New England, so it's

just the rent up here is crazy.

Crazy. >> I I don't care. I don't know how that math works.

$2,300 - $1,700 equals Sally doesn't

have food.

Right. So, I have about $80,000 in uh between an IRA and an equity account.

And I keep drawing off of that, you know, to make ends meet.

Mhm. What's the nature of your disability?

Uh it's been everything. Physical

A lot of physical stuff.

Heart problems, uh mental disability,

depression. I mean, I'm being honest, you know. So, uh What What keeps you in New England?

Uh I have one adult daughter

Okay. who lives

in the New England area.

Okay. Do you have other family anywhere in the country?

I'm sorry. Do you have other family anywhere in the country?

I do. I mean, my ex-husband is nearby

and he's been very helpful. But my question is, I have this

um $9,000 credit card debt. >> Mhm. Which I mean, I pay basically. Mhm. You know, is there any way What kind of credit card, you know, relief is there?

>> There's not There's not any. You You borrowed money on a credit card and the only credit card relief there is is if um you file bankruptcy, which you're certainly not going to do on $9,000.

Um There's no magic pill that says you're disab- disabled, so they forgive the credit card debt. That does There's no such thing. So, um I also don't think that that's the biggest concern. >> issue. Your core issue is you're draining down the savings. What are you going to do when the savings is gone?

Yeah. I am. I mean, that's why I'm trying to hang on to that. How much are you pulling off of it? >> little as I can. Yeah, but that doesn't matter. You make $2,300 and your rent is $1,700.

Those numbers don't last. How much are you pulling off that 80,000 every month, Sally?

Sally? How much are you taking out of your savings every month, Sally?

Well, a year

I try to keep it like between four and

six thousand dollars a year.

But, uh last year, I had to have my transmission replaced.

And that was $8,000 you know, for that. >> Yeah. And that was cheaper than buying another car. >> Okay, so here's what I want you to fi- figure out, and this is not going to be easy.

Okay? But, there's three or four levers to pull, and everyone everything I'm going to tell you is going to be hard.

But, they're not going to be as hard as the plan you're on, cuz the plan you're on, you're going to run out of money.

And you're going to have a problem. >> That's my fear. >> Yeah, I know. I know. I'm not trying to scare you. I'm just saying the plan you're on sucks. We need a new plan.

But, the other plans aren't going to be without pain, okay? So, plan number part

part There's three or four things and you need to do somewhat of all of them, okay? I want you to come up with some kind of a self-employed idea that you can do with the limitations that you have to create some income.

That's thing number one. Just write that down. I don't care what it is, and I don't As long as it makes you smile and makes you $1,000 or more a month, okay?

The second thing is, you've got to move.

You cannot afford a $1,700 rent, period.

And we need to create The third thing is we're doing those two things so we create a monthly budget that is sustainable, meaning it will last.

Okay? And so if you had $3,500 coming in because you had a little bit of side income and if you had no payments and if you had a rent that was half of what you have now then you can do that without touching your savings and that is sustainable.

That will last.

But the numbers you're giving me won't last and you know that. That's why you called and it's terrifying. I'm sorry you're there. Right. I'm sorry you're there, but what but if you don't act on it, it's going to get more terrifying.

And so we've got to do those three things. We have to create a sustainable situation that the the income minus the

rent minus living expenses doesn't need

savings to be used.

Then number two, we're going to do that by getting affordable rent and we're going to do that by getting It may mean moving to another area of the country. I don't know.

But $850 rent is available out there in America somewhere. Okay? It might not be

in Hartford. I don't know Hartford that well. It's an expensive little town and Connecticut is a highly taxed state, so it's very possible. I don't know.

But um the uh but but I want you to think in those terms. We have to get rent and income

added to this equa- better rent price better income added to this equation so we don't have to touch the savings and then you're okay.

You can be fine.

Then you can write a check out of the 80,000 and pay off the stupid credit card and cut it up. >> That's right. >> And it goes away. That's number four is when you've created a sustainable situation. But today I would tell you just pay off the credit card, but if you stay in this situation with this income and this rent, you're still going to burn up your savings. The credit card's not your problem.

Your problem is your income versus your life.

The way your life is set up now. >> Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, I mean $1,000 would change your world. >> with you. We want you to win. And what I'm telling you to do to move to 850, that's painful. What I'm telling you to do to get a to come up with some kind of side hustle where you babysit dogs or you do whatever, you iron people's shirts or I don't care what you do.

Whatever it is you're going to do for 1,000 bucks a month, okay? It doesn't take a lot. You That's not a lot, but neither one of those things are easy.

They're painful things that I'm asking you to do for you. But, um

you know, you you've got to uh if you don't address this, it's going to unravel on you. >> Absolutely. Yeah, that money's going to run out. Um yeah, this is going to be a major move out of the comfort zone.

Major. And you know, I think the other thing is I um

I I sense that you don't have a large

um strong community group friends.

And so, I want you to search out a good local church there in Hartford. And I want you to sit in the pastor's office and introduce yourself to them and tell them your story. Mhm. And ask them to help you plug in with some of the other ladies there in the church. Not so they give you money,

but so you get some people that hear your story and that you are seen and you feel good and you feel whole.

Connection, connectivity to community, when you're especially when you're battling something that that's having to do things that are uncomfortable is necessary. Well, and there's opportunity there. The more people you're around, people get to talking and somebody says this and it sparks an idea and you go, "Oh, I could go do that, right?" Like all of my major opportunities >> and live in our guest house and babysit our dogs? Yeah.

And you do that for 600 bucks. But, we we didn't introduce ourselves trying to get something from them. But, those things happen when you're in community. >> Yeah.

And people know your need, and they know you. >> Mhm. And they know you're you're trustworthy. >> Yeah, your transmission goes out.

Oh, I know a guy who who can fix that.

>> it's 4,000. >> That's right. That's right. >> Yeah. Yeah, so I I want you That's number four. I want you to search out a good local church, and sit down have a meeting with the pastor. Again, not to ask for things, except to connect me into community. I need more friends.

I need more connection.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today. Christine is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi Christine, how are you?

I'm well, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um hey, so I wanted to get um your advice and perspective. Um my boyfriend

and I, we want to be married and we're not running down the aisle tomorrow, but we're working towards it and having conversations. >> Good. And one of one of the more in-depth conversations that we do still need to have is financial. But before before we like even jump into that, like I want to make sure that I'm coming at it from a really grounded mindset and perspective like within myself first.

Um so like it makes absolute sense to me that like when you get married, you combine your finances together with your spouse. But I'm noticing in myself that I have this little nagging fear of don't become like fully financially dependent on your partner because what happens if like everything goes wrong.

Um and like that fear gets even louder

when I think about potential future scenarios where like if I decide I want to leave my career and stay home with the kids, like that's something I'm open to, but at the same time, like this fear gets a little bit louder. And so like I don't want that fear to be in the driver's seat for these really important conversations that like genuinely I'm excited to have. Well, you are you are very wise in your approach to this. I love your wisdom.

I love that. I I I also think it's it's valid. I think a lot of women feel that way, especially certain types of women who do like to go out and it maybe it's never been your your your mindset to be like, oh, I'm going to be home and maybe I'll stay home with kids, but you like to go out and you like to be doing your thing out there.

tend to do in those situations is I really go back to the facts of it because it really is somewhat of an emotional argument cuz if you think about it, let's go back to what you said. Well, I'm afraid I'll lose my independence. What if basically I stop working and he's the sole income earner, right?

Right, yeah. >> Is that the biggest fear? >> that could be that could be a that could be a that's a fear. Yeah. So, what what you would be worried about is you're at home and what he wants to get a divorce and you're out here and you've been you've exited the workforce for however many years, right? So, now you're struggling to get a job, right? Is that the I like to play out the scenario to as much detail as I can. Is that right?

>> Oh, yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah, that or like you hear about like financial abuse where people are like, well, all the cards are in his name and he's cutting me off. And >> Okay, so those are two different things.

No, they're I think they're the same thing. Well, one of them In both cases you have to have a voice. >> One yeah, you both >> the preventative medicine. Right.

And one of them is I have a hard time seeing the second scenario which is any sort of abuse because the fact that you guys are talking about this ahead of time, the fact that you're being proactive, the fact that you're not the type to shy away from being a part of it, I don't think you're going to worry about that at all, right?

>> Yes. You're not going to be 8 months later and go, "Well, I kind of felt bad." You're not that person. You're like, "Wait a minute, Bubba." That's you.

Definitely. And then number the first one that we're going in reverse now is the idea that, "Okay, what if I exit the workforce? What if I'm out for 10 years, you know, and something goes wrong with the marriage? I'm left, you know, having to create this whole new world for myself, right?" So, that's when I would go in and I would really think about it.

I'd say, "Okay, well, what what's the job that I'm leaving? Is there any way that I can continue to stay connected to that?" And maybe you're in healthcare, you keep your certifications up.

you're the same person, you're smart today, you'll be smart 10 years from now, right? You're resourceful today, you'll be resourceful 10 years from now.

So, the assumption that you will somehow

go down in value over time and you won't be able to get a job and you won't Do you see what I'm saying? >> And of course you're well aware you get half of everything. Yeah. So, if there's a million dollars in his 401k,

half of it's yours. If there's a million-dollar paid-for house half of it's yours. But the scary part is >> going to be without as long as you've had a say in and are aware of and you're

both voting together and you both are emotional owners of all the decisions all the way through.

So, my wife Sharon's been a full-time mom since Denise was born 40 years ago.

Mhm.

Talk about vulnerable.

Except that she has an equal vote and has had emotionally, practically, and legally the entire time.

I can promise you if you interview her, she will not say she has ever one time felt vulnerable.

Quite the opposite.

Yeah, and that's that's so beautiful.

And so, I guess like coming back to like

when we're just starting to have these conversations, like I I mean like I I

would What are like what are some like advice that you might give to like how do we start these conversations?

Like I have full faith and confidence in him. I don't expect him to like have a curve ball >> You wouldn't be dating him. Oh, wow.

Right, right. Right. >> So, like I guess how how do we step through those kinds of conversations just to, you know, do the groundwork to make sure that we are on the same page and setting ourselves up right for we have this equal vote, you know, that sort of thing. >> I think that you do exactly what you're doing, which is you lead with your heart and what you want for the future.

So, you start by saying things like, you know, I want our marriage to last forever and I want us to have full transparency.

way cuz who can argue with that?

>> Yeah, and I want I want to I want both our votes to count. >> Yes. And because two is better than one.

Um and um and you know, all that. And then you say and then you go, "Okay, let's talk through some of this because the number one cause of marriage problems and divorce is money fights and money problems. So, let's go ahead and figure out if bears kill people in our neighborhood, it's the number one thing they die of, then we need to figure out how to keep the bears away, right? So, um you know, what are we going to do?

What are we going to do?" Well, okay, let's look at debt. Let's look at savings. Let's look at the way you grew up, the way I grew up. Are you a natural saver or a natural spender?

Um and you start to go through some of those things and generally opposites attract, so celebrate the differences.

And not one of you is wrong, one of you is right. But if you're the natural saver, my wife's the natural saver, we celebrate that at our house. I'm also the natural spender, we celebrate that at our house. She gets to do stuff because I'm there, you know, and so we celebrate that. And um so you know, Rachel and Winston, Rachel's the spender, Rachel and Winston is the saver at their house and so on. So, anyway, you just start working that through and you know, it's almost a part

of premarital counseling to go in depth on what do you believe about giving, saving, spending, fun,

retirement wealth, insurance. What do you believe about these things? And let's talk about that and talk about the feelings that come around all of those things, and then start to go, "Okay, I'm going to have to come some your direction from my natural tendency. You're going to have to come some my direction from your natural tendency, and we're going to find a really cool, strong point at the third

point on the triangle Mhm. from there that's that's better than either one of us were by ourselves. Thus, we're getting together. So, you're going to be great. You ask a question so well, and you ask the right question. Yeah, you're going to be intentional. Your brain is going to remain turned on. I'm I'm not concerned about you. I'm going to send you a copy of Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. Both of you could read it. It'll help you with the discussion.

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Brian is in Los Angeles. Hey Brian, how are you?

I'm good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, so um I'm just calling for some advice because uh I'm kind of at a crossroads right now. I've kind of achieved my most immediate financial goals, and I kind of don't know what to do moving forward.

Okay. What do you mean? Yes.

So, I got um about 350K liquid. I have

two healthcare businesses that are grossing about 750,000 a year, and I

have a wife and a kid, and I'm paying about 60 to 80 thousand dollars in taxes

at the end of the year. Uh I have about

300 K in equity on my house with 900 thousand left on the mortgage. Uh I don't we don't have any credit card debt or anything like that. The cars are paid off. Um I was just wondering like in my situation, you know, with this 350 thousand sitting in a checking account, you know, Chase and the people who I'm banking with, they're kind of calling wanting me to move the money around but, you know, I worked hard to save it up.

I'm not sure really what to do with that. Yeah, you're Jed Clampett. Mr.

Drysdale's calling.

That's funny. You don't even know what that is. Look it up. Okay.

Yeah, I'm only 30 so I can Oh yeah, you'll have to look it up. It's The Beverly Hillbillies. It's an old show.

Okay. Anyway, the uh Oh my god, I have I've immediately become irrelevant. Anyway. >> with you. I was with you. The um So, way to go. So, you're making your income off

the 750 gross is somewhere around 250, right?

Yeah, it's about 15 to 20 K a month.

That's that's about after taxes including the >> I'm talking about your grow your your taxable annual income from these businesses is around 250, isn't it?

Yeah, something like that. 250 About 20

About 20 thousand a month.

Yeah. Okay. And that that's after tax. I

pull in about 20 thousand a month with distribution. And see, I'm taking 7 thousand a month in W-2 for myself and then my wife is about 2.5 thousand in a

W-2. So, I don't even know if that is No, none of that matters is what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about what your real taxable income is. So, we know it's 10

on W-2 and then you have profit on these

businesses that you own. You know what profit is and that profit is also taxable, and the total of all of that is 60, and in a 30% bracket, that means you're making around 250 maybe 300,000 a year, okay? Somewhere in

there. >> Yeah, my bracket is 37%.

>> Okay, then you should be Yeah, you're you're probably making 300 then. Okay.

So Okay. That That's good. Way to go.

Congratulations.

Uh I do want you to get more on top of your numbers on your business. It scares me that you don't know what you make, but um uh and that you somehow bifurcated that under what you're doing on W-2. I don't have that problem here, and I make a lot more than that on this place. So, um I know exactly where my income's coming from and how much it is.

So, I want you to know that. Mhm. Then um I I want you to take a whole bunch of this 350 and pay down your mortgage. I want you to get your house paid off fast as you can.

And your your your your your

um your instinct on not listening to a bank

who was trolling you um was very wise.

The last thing you want to do is listen to Chase or JP Morgan for anything or Fifth Third. Mhm. You don't want to listen to them for anything. This is just where I deposit money and where I run my checking account and my debit card.

That's the only place I use them for, okay? I'm not using a bank for investment advice. They don't have good investment advice. They give you banker advice.

Yeah, they give you good banker advice. So, you need to sit down with a good broker to do your long-term investing, but we teach people at your stage, and way to go, you're doing extremely well, Brian. Obviously, you're bright guy. Um I mean, idiots don't generally make 300k, and so you know, you're you're you're doing really, really well.

What's the purpose of the 350 set aside in cash? How's it earmarked? >> It's just It's just what what I've been saving, and um I'm I'm I'm at the stage now where you know, I ran everything through chat GPT for the kids are doing, you know, and everything came back that I need to interview some CPAs cuz I really don't know. Now, I'll tell you that Now, you don't need to listen to chat GPT either about investment advice.

Like how is that How is it >> So that 350 is in a mutual mutual

checking account that me and my wife have access to. Good.

>> And then I'm That's not including the money that is in my businesses that will hold it for 6 months. So I don't include that. >> Good. But I don't I don't include that as my money.

That's my dual say. Very good. That's why you need retained earnings in the business. So what we would teach you to do is to get a good investment advisor that has the heart of a teacher and will sit down with you and your wife and teach you about some good ways to put some of this aside.

You need to get some 401(k)s of some kind going and some Roth IRAs going of some kind and there's several things you can do in your situation depending on how your companies are set up.

Uh and then we're going to have an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses set aside. So some of this 350 will still be sitting there and you could call it 50. You have a $900,000 mortgage, I think you said. So I'm going to throw 300 at that and then I'm going to say how fast can I pay off that 600,000 and have a paid for house out of

this wonderful income I have from this company and you're living very frugally. So you're doing a great job. And so, you know, let's pay that house off in 3 or 4 more years and I'm in the meanwhile start some investing for your retirement plans and you're going to become very, very wealthy. You're not going to become very wealthy just dumping 350 in a high-yield savings.

Let's talk about why though cuz somebody listening is like, well, that sounds pretty good to have $350,000 and just sitting in cash. >> Which not bad. It's better than not having it.

But I mean, there's somebody listening going, well, why do I need to invest that? I I I'm I'm afraid of investments. I'd rather just have it sitting in my account. It's not losing money, is it?

And so that's the person that I want to speak to because I do think that it probably feels good to have money there, but you have to think about what that money's doing over time. Yeah. If it's not in a high-yield savings account uh and it's just in a regular savings account, then you're really earning nothing on it. Even if it's in a high-yield, maybe you're at 3.5, but if you invest it, you can have a better rate of return over time.

I think you said earlier 11.8% has been the average return.

>> But that's not normal. But let's just say for instance you took the last 3 years. Okay, 20% of 350,000

and you made three instead.

>> Mhm. So, but 20% would be $60,000 a year, right? Yes. >> $70,000 a year.

Okay, and and and could have made $70,000 a year for the last 3 years on >> That's a lot of money. And so that's another 210.

Uh but instead we made 3.5. Yeah, I made 3% on it and so

um I don't know. What's that More than It's like nothing.

>> More than half, yeah. In other words, you lost tens of thousands of dollars per year by not having it invested. And that's what financial people, like I was trained, call opportunity cost.

You missed the opportunity to make an average of about $70,000 on that for the last 3 years. Not to mention if you'd left it in there, you would have made sev- 20% on the 70 and then 20% on the

140 on top of that, but we're not even talking about that. And that's not normal. That's not every year, but it it it's actual facts in the last 3 years, that's what it would have been. And so instead, you made 3% um which is like $9,000

per year. Yeah. And so >> deal. It's a big deal. >> it's that that's the missed opportunity on your money because it when your money's one place, it can't be another.

It loses the opportunity to go to work.

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>> Nicole is in Tulsa. Hi Nicole, how are you? Hi, good. Thank you. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Thank you. Um I um have listened to you

guys since I was about 17. I'm almost 38

now and you guys have just changed my life. Um just tremendously. So I just am so so grateful.

Um my most basic question is um I'm

currently working on my doctorate program. I work full-time and I just

have very little margin between my schedule and my budget and um I'm getting just burned out and just

wanting to hear from the experts on what you would recommend just to keep staying the course and um to you know, just keep

at it. How much time do you have left in this

situation of working full-time?

>> left. How much How much finish up the doctorate? Um so I have about 16 hours after this uh semester. So I'm I'm pretty close. Um

but uh just you know, pulling teeth to get there. And then dissertation, right?

Um that includes the dissertation. But I'm I have it almost completely written.

So. Oh, okay. And you But you have 16 hours of classwork also?

Uh yes, sir. Okay, cool.

So how What are you going to do? One semester or how long does that take?

Um it it The trajectory is about a year and a half just how the coursework falls uh within the school that I'm at. Okay, so a year and a half. >> It's not a real heavy course load then.

It's not, no, sir. Okay, and so you're running a full-time job, 40 hours? Yes, sir. All right, yes, sir. So, what do you make?

Uh right now I make about 50. Okay, and you can't live on that?

I I can. I've got a very very tight budget. Um but I have about probably, you know, 15, 30 bucks left over at the end of every month. Is it just you?

Just me. Okay.

Um I I want to know more about the money.

Uh you said you've only got 15 or 30. Do you have debt?

I don't. No, so I'm in uh baby step four. Um so I and I've saved up um

already for the school. So, um I have just about what I need uh to finish that above my 6-month emergency fund.

>> Mhm. Um probably my biggest um hurdle is just my rent is it takes um I'm sitting at about 1,200 a month

for that.

It's not as bad as I thought you were going to say. Uh-huh.

So, um you're Are you said four, you're putting 15% of your income away in retirement?

I'm not right now. Okay, so you're not in four. Okay. All right. Okay. So,

there's there's a couple parts to this. The first part of your question is how do I stay motivated, which just sounded more like a just a emotional space of staying motivated till the end. And then it sounds like there's also a financial component, which is also my budget is tight.

Right, correct. >> Um I mean, in this case, let's talk about the budget first. In this case, it sounds like every square inch of your time is accounted for. Am I wrong or am I right? You're beyond right.

>> Okay. So, then the next place we can look is is there anything that you can cut out of your budget? Is there anything that is worth changing for the next year and a half to make this thing better? I'm looking at your rent, but I

think to myself you're probably in some sort of a lease. You've got a year and a half. I don't know that that's worth shaking loose.

So, Right, it just What do you do What do you do for a living?

Sure. So, I I've been working in the mental health field for the last 8 years or so.

So, I've been working in the health field. Doing what?

Right now I'm doing case management. I have been doing therapy. I shifted that just to have a little bit less stress to be able to kind of keep myself going. >> PhD is in counseling or what?

It's actually in ministry. So, it's merging the Christian field with therapy, trauma, all of that. And what are your What are your plans to do with that? Sure. To I'd I'd like to merge it within, you know, therapy as well as shift into ministry as well. So, I know it's not a real high-paying, you know, degree, but I know with therapy going shifting into that I can, you know, nearly double my income. >> know why you couldn't do therapy through the lens of ministry and make extra money. Mhm.

I don't know why you have to take a a backseat just because you use the word ministry in the sentence.

Sure. And that's definitely part of my

goal is to be able to do that. Yeah, and with a PhD you can teach as well.

So, um That's That's part of the goal as well. Okay, we want to make sure we monetize all of this hard work off the back.

And don't, in the name of saying I'm holy or I'm doing ministry, accept less than your worth in the marketplace.

Instead, go be worth that in the marketplace and that is a ministry. So,

you're serving people in the in the counseling or mental health space with a faith-based element

is hugely valuable.

And sought after, by the way.

So, that's not something that you have to make, you know, 60,000 after going to all this work of doing a PhD. Don't do that. So, anyway, I just want to pep talk you there. I think you can do a lot with this and I want you to go I want you to go make 100k plus, okay?

When you're when you're done with this PhD. So, then >> the motivation to continue right there.

>> it's worth it. Then it's worth it to just push on through.

Um but, you know, you've gotten this far and the light is at the end of the tunnel. Lay out a detailed track that says, "On this date, I will be done." Dissertation will be reviewed and and completed. The um classwork will be completed and they're going to put doctor in front of Nicole's name. Okay?

On this date. Lay that out and then you start to go You can almost put that on the wall as a thermometer and then just every month you check it off and work your way through, you know, like a like you were in kindergarten or something.

Um that helps.

If there's The reason I was asking about all this is if cuz you're doing your coursework and um your your working through >> casework Monday through Friday, if there's anything you can do on Saturday to add 1,500 bucks to a month to this situation, it's probably going to make your life a lot better and you're you're not going to die from fatigue because you're young and you've got the ability to push through these things. Nothing we're doing here is out of control and it's not forever.

It's for a short period of time. >> if you can make it a side hustle that you enjoy doing, like if you're flipping furniture, right? If you enjoy arts and crafts, that's a great thing for you to do. Flip a piece of furniture, make 1,500 bucks off it, right?

Or if you enjoy, you know, working with your hands, do something that also feels like a little bit of um a hobby that you enjoy while you're making money. I think that'll make it easier for you. >> a little self-employed idea of some kind. Um or you could stay right in the mental health field and do some kind of uh you know, uh freelance casework of some kind.

bucks a month would be a good trade for your Saturday.

>> And would give you some breathing room in the budget, which also helps you fight through the fatigue and go, "I'm going to make it. I've only got this many more months. I've got eight months. I've got seven months. I've got six months. I've got five months. I've got four months. We're going to make it." And you start to But you got to put it down in detail where your mind believes that this is going to be over.

Because it is going to be over if you plan for it to be over. You don't want to be a perpetual student. No one Well, some people do. No one should. No one should. Yeah, that's a better way of saying that. Wow.

Yeah, you got this. Sacrifice to win.

She's in it. >> sounds like that just You know, the other thing I would do is um make sure someone else in the PhD program knows your story. What you're doing. Sit down and share this.

Even if you just share each other's tears for a little bit or whine together. We're going to whine a little bit. We're going to whine session here.

This is hard and I'm tired. Mhm, that's good. You need somebody to be able to talk to like that. >> That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. That does give you energy.

Because if you're you know, fighting the dragon all by yourself, you can get burned. And and you need you need the other people speaking into you and speaking over you good things that is. So

I mean, that's what you do all day long for other people.

You you know, that's what a case worker does. You speak life into the into the case, into the situation. You bring wisdom to the situation, perspective into the situation and keeps it moving.

So Hey, I got a feeling you're going to do great. I want to hear how this whole PhD thing works out with your ministry in quotes.

Yeah, quotes. That's where it belongs.

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slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Rachel in Louisiana. She says, "My husband and I have five kids between 5 and 15 years old. We have baby step four in place through our jobs, but saving for college seems overwhelming with five kids. My husband and I are in our 40s with over 600,000 in retirement. Would

you recommend reducing retirement contributions to 10% for a season to

throw more money at college?"

I wish I knew how old the others were. I wish I knew how much they made. >> I wish I knew how much they made, too.

It's we're missing some valuable information here. I think at first glance, and I wish I knew how much you already had saved.

I I don't think you're going to make it.

Yeah. Okay, here's why. Let's say you make $200,000 a year.

If you reduce your retirement contributions by 5%, that's $10,000 a year. For five kids, that's $2,000 each.

And you've only got 3 years before the first one gets there. That's $6,000.

You've got 8 years before the next one gets there. That's $24,000.

So, this 5% does not fix your problem.

>> Uh I Unless you make you know, like $700,000 a year, which you don't or you wouldn't have been writing this email. I agree. So, um the uh you know, you've got you're going to have to skin this cat another way because you've got this idea that retirement is blocking it until you actually put the real dollars to it, not the percentages. Yeah. And then you can say that. Now, if you completely stopped it, it's not 10,000, it's 30,000.

You know, that would help, but it's still not going to get you there completely. So, what I'm doing is I'm going to begin having a training sessions with the children on what college looks like.

You want some help? You ready? Set. Go.

Number one reason people take out student loans is not that they went to college. It's that they went to the wrong college. Mhm. One they could not

afford. Love a community college. Love a

community college. Free in most states, near free in the rest of them for the first 2 years. Get your basics out of the way, live at home. Love working through >> college experience. Well, you got to you got to have other parents cuz we don't have the money for you to have the college experience. We're not financing college experience, we're financing education here.

>> That's right. Number one goal, get the education, not play beer pong. But you can work. Oh, that's number two. >> I love working through college. >> choice. We could work. Love it. And guess what? You can earn a lot of money while you're in college working.

Everybody that worked while you're in college, raise your hand out there. All of them just raised their hands in the lobby. Okay? Come on. I mean, seriously, I worked 40 to 60 hours a week. Mhm.

>> I was so glad to get out of school.

So that it was >> So that all I had to do was work.

It's easy. >> Cuz I had to work and go to school. Shut up. I wanted to graduate. I wanted out of it. >> I know that's right. >> not a pleasant experience. It was something I was getting done.

And there's time for scholarships here. They've got time to I mean they got a 5-year-old and through 15, there's a lot of money there for scholarships. >> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So where do you go to school? Work while you're in school. Get scholarships. These are the three big things. By far the biggest is

where you choose to go to school.

Because that first 2 years is anywhere between 0 and $100,000 a year. Yeah. Oh

gosh.

Think about it. >> I I I'm mad because I did not take our advice and and I understand >> ended up with $200,000 in student loans.

Yeah. Yeah, 265, right?

>> Yeah. Most Yeah. Is that right? I'm not rubbing your nose in it. I'm just trying to remember. >> just saying most of that was from Sam.

So Oh, okay.

I wish I wish we'd have gotten a hold of Sam. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. We'll throw him under the bus since he's not here. Hey Sam, next time I see you I want to see the bus tracks. Okay. >> he's used to it. Yeah.

Uh but either way either way it's what you signed up for when you married him, too. So that goes with it.

It's The thing is this.

You can get a college education if you work while you're in school, apply for every scholarship in sight, go to a school you can afford, which includes probably the first 2 years are in a community college and certainly after that you're doing in-state tuition.

And by the way, let me help you people with this.

No one cares where you went to school.

>> They really don't. No one cares where you went to school.

If someone is hiring based on where you went to school, you don't want to work for those people. They're not smart people.

78% of the Fortune 500 companies, the largest 500 companies on the stock

exchange, eight out of 10 of them, their CEO went to a state school.

Hey Harvard, hold my beer.

I'm not paying Princeton MIT rates

because it puts me into a job. There's no research that shows not one iota of

data that shows you're successful based on where you went to school. None.

You can't find it. It's all BS.

It's all people who are stuck on prestige, not education.

Don't get caught up in prestige.

I'm telling you, it's not worth it. Now, if you've got an extra half million laying around and your kid wants to go to Vanderbilt, fine. If you got an extra half million dollars laying around and you want to put your kid at MIT, MIT, I'm okay with that. Or Northwestern, I'm okay with that. But you got to have the extra money laying around. This lady doesn't.

And this lie that we have sold to people in America that where you went to school is equated with your success is absolute

data-based bull crap.

It does not exist.

So, choose a school you can afford and you will get a good education. You don't believe me? Last time you hired a lawyer, did you ask them where they went to school? You don't believe me?

Last time you hired a cancer doctor, did you ask them where they went to school? Did you ask your dentist where they went to school? No, you didn't. You asked them if you're going to hurt me while you clean my teeth.

That's all you wanted to know. You did you ask your veterinarian before he gave your puppy a vaccination where he went to school? No, you didn't.

I rest my case, boys and girls.

All you care about is do they have the expertise? Did they get the knowledge at the school that they went to to do the job I'm asking them to do? That's the only thing you care about. When I'm hiring, I don't care where you went to school.

I've never hired a person based on where they went to school, and we got a thousand people working at Ramsey. We hire them based on can you do the freaking work?

Do you know what you are doing on the

thing we hired you to do? That's all we care about. I don't know if any of the people sitting in the booth even have a degree, much less where they went to school. Or even if they got out of high school. One of them MIGHT NOT HAVE.

WOW. I'M KIDDING, NOT MUCH. I'm serious, guys. This is a deal. Can you do the

job? Are you a professional? Do you have

the discipline? Do you know the stuff in your discipline? If you're an accountant, you should be able to do accounting, and you can learn to do that at a school no one ever heard of.

Just as well as you pay a hundred thousand dollars a year for. So, it's bull crap.

So, this is the This is the message we gave our kids. We had kid training. But then you have to add in the point that you're making this decision when you're 18. You don't even fully know who you are yet, which is where you get to the point where you're spending this crazy amount of money for a degree that you don't even know if you're going to end up working in that field.

Fifty percent of folks don't even work in the field that they got their degree in. >> Yeah. Also, Rachel, last thing, I'm going to give you one more piece of advice. Download and watch tonight with the whole family, five years old and beyond,

the YouTube documentary Borrowed Future.

Award-winning, we did it.

When your five-year-old reminds you, when they're 25, that you showed them this when they were five, and they said, "Oh, I'm not going into debt to go to school, that nobody cares where I went to school. All I care about is getting an education to do the thing I want to do.

When they remind you of that 20 years from now because they watched this documentary and you didn't think they were watching it cuz they're five, they were watching it.

You You believe me, they were watching it. Ramsey kids will tell you they they learn stuff like this growing up. Where you go to school doesn't matter. What matters is the person in your mirror.

Are you going to go out there, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home?

Your perseverance, your integrity, your tenacity, your raw intellect, your

ability to pivot in the marketplace.

These are the things that cause you to be successful. Your character, not freaking where you went to school.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Warshaw Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host. Sydney is in Augusta, Georgia.

Hi Sydney, how are you? Hi Hi Dave.

Thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? Um I'm wondering how I can help my husband uh finish paying off our debt and become a baby step millionaire as a stay-at-home mom of two.

Good for you. What's he make?

Uh he makes 80,000 a year. Very good.

Very good. How much debt have you guys got? Um we had about uh 67,000 and we've paid

off uh 30,000 in the last year. Way to go. >> go. Wow.

How'd you do that?

Uh by a lot of couponing and scrimping

and budgeting. Wow. So, you were living on 50, 45?

Yes. Holy smokes. Way to go.

Good for you. Good for you. That's how you do it.

You want to know how to get there? That's how you do it. You were You know, the only difference is you're probably going to dial back the intensity after you get out of debt.

But, y'all it is is you're intentional.

Doing this on purpose. How old are you guys? Uh, I just turned 30 and he's I'm sorry, I just turned 33. He just uh, turned 29.

Okay, very cool. What's he do for a living? Uh, he's in the army. Uh, very good.

Planning to be career or what?

Uh, we're not sure at this point. So, officer, I guess.

Uh, he's hoping to make uh, what is it? Staff Sergeant pretty soon.

So. >> Okay, good. Good. All right, fine.

Well, good. Tell him thanks for serving his country. You, too, cuz you get to go along for the ride. And, um, so, well, you're number one, you've obviously been listening to what we teach. Your number one wealth building tool is your income.

And, um, if from age 30 to age 60 or 70, you

invest 15% of your income, you're going to be multi-millionaires.

I don't know how long before you reach the first million, but, um, you could get on the ramseysolutions.com website, click on the retirement calculator, and play with some numbers to give you the assurance that you're going to be able to do it.

But, um, uh, as a stay-at-home mom that coupons and is tight on the budget and knows how to watch and make everything squeak, you're a home economist, you're cooking from scratch. Uh, the kids' clothes aren't wearing out. They're not sick all the time. Um, and, you know, you're you know, you're saving tons of money by operating your household the way you're operating it. Um, and you can continue to do that without putting a huge strain on the family. Y'all have been very intense.

So, but when you get out of debt, I want you to lighten up the intensity a little bit, but I want you to just run the numbers. The two of you sit down with that retirement calculator tonight. And if you invest 15% of your income from the time you're out of debt until you retire, it's at least $2 million right now.

That's where you'll be, okay?

Um it may be three when you put it down, I'm not sure, okay?

But um yeah, I want you to do that and then as far as being a Baby Steps Millionaire, when you get the house paid off, the value of the house plus whatever you've got saved, I predict you're going to be there in about 10 years.

So, you'll have your first million-dollar net worth in about 10 years. That's what it sounds like based on the math.

Yeah.

Is that okay? We Yeah, we hope so. I mean, cuz we're also going to be looking at if he does not stay in the Army, moving back home. And

you know, that's going to selling our house here, which we're not attached to whatsoever, and then buying land up back

home. Where's back home?

Uh in Texas. Okay. All right. Yeah. So, not unaffordable, I hope.

No. Okay. Very affordable, good. Yeah.

Okay, so and and of course he'll need a an income, a career for what he does after he leaves the military, right?

Yes, he's gotten several job offers that are very high-paying for us, so What's high-paying? What what kind of income?

Um making it probably about double from 160 to 180. That's awesome. You sound worried. What are you worried about?

Uh I'm not so much worried. I just I feel like I'm not really pulling my weight right now because I just take care of our kids and my husband is Oh, wow. Yeah. >> Girl. I say just You're you're raising the next Billy Graham and you just took care of your kids?

Yeah, but Think about Hold on. Hold on a second. Think about for a second Don't tell Sharon Ramsey that she just raised Rachel Cruze. >> Now, okay? Think about for a second all the tasks that you do inside of the home, and think for a moment what it would take if you were to if you were to go away and you had to pay someone to do those tasks.

Yeah. Wash all wash wash all the clothes, wash all the dishes, keep the house clean, keep the kids clean, get them where they're going on time, pick them up. You have to hire a live-in full-time nanny to do that job. We're talking Mary Poppins here. >> Yeah. That is real economic and financial value. It is 100% It's just baked in.

You're just used to doing it. >> around 50 or 60,000 a year.

Maybe more, depending on how many kids.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, my husband wants five someday, so >> Listen, cha-ching. Yeah, well, that that's a different discussion, but yeah.

But but the point is you guys are fine.

You are not a princess. You are a person who's content. You're adding value, tremendous value to your family economically and emotionally, so that when he's at work, he's not worried about the home front.

Yes, that's what he tells me. Zig Ziglar used to call it the home court advantage. You know, when a team plays on their home court, they've got the home team cheering for them. They have an advantage of several points over the visitor. You know what I'm talking about, right? Yes. When you take care of the household, you're providing a home court advantage. >> Mhm.

And you're playing a key role. >> It's huge. Key role. It's huge.

Let me tell you, the fact that Sharon Ramsey was there and was a solid rock

and wasn't high-maintenance, allowed me to go do this Ramsey thing.

This Ramsey thing wouldn't be there if I had to run home and do maintenance all the time.

Yeah. She never said wait till your father gets home.

They were hoping he was going to get home.

It's a relief. Yeah.

Maybe he'll save us.

DADDY'LL SAVE US.

NO, I'M SERIOUS. I MEAN, that's there was no need that you know, I yes, I did my part as the dad, but I'm telling you that the value that she did there is a

thing and I'll I'll leave you this last one thing and that is Proverbs 31, who can find a virtuous wife?

For her worth is far above rubies.

Wow. And her husband safely trusts her.

And he will have no lack of gain.

You want no lack of gain?

Get you a Sydney.

I'm telling you. If you get a Sydney, you're going to have no lack of gain. You get a Sharon, you're going to have no lack of gain. And we just cannot say that enough. So,

and the problem and and Deloney's talked about this before Jade and you and Rachel have done a great job of packing and unpacking it as well. The problem is that in our culture today, guys can just go win. It's okay.

Gals they don't win even when they win.

So, if you go in the marketplace, you've abandoned your children. If you're go at home, you stay at home, you've wasted your life. And you got you got guilt and shame coming from the stupid people in the culture, no matter what you do.

There's a no win. So, or there's a win-win. Whatever it is. I oh, I can be a great mom and work and be professional and produce in the marketplace. Or, I can be a great mom and that is producing. Or, I can be in the marketplace a lot and produce.

And and Bubba be changing some diapers.

Hello. You know, I mean, this is all there ain't nothing wrong with any of these scenarios. You just have to be confident in the one that you select.

>> Listen up, folks. If you've got a complicated tax situation and you're putting off filing your return, it's time to talk with a Ramsey trusted tax pro. Not next week, not April 15th, right freaking now. Ramsey trusted tax pros know the tax code front to back so they can do the heavy lifting to help you file on time and explain things to

you with the heart of a teacher. But, they can only do that if you get on their schedule before they book up. Go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro to find a full-time tax advisor who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

Well, we wish we could get to every call and question here on the show. So, if you have a money question and want an answer for your situation, head on over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask

Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained only on proven Ramsey principles. If you don't know how AI works, it's artificial. It's not real.

It's not intelligence, it's artificial intelligence. And it can only regurgitate the data set that you put into it.

And so, if your data set is skewed or screwed up or has bad information in it, it's going to produce bad information out the back.

So, this has not got that problem because we own it. So, there's nothing No data set has been put into this except 3 years of calls off this show and how we answer the calls.

And all of Financial Peace University, and all the articles we've written, and all the books we've written, the Ramsey personalities and me.

And they're all dumped into a the data sets from all of those to answer your questions, and then the AI tool generates the answer, and it sounds really close, like exactly like you're

listening to the show.

Uh, it's not quite as smart alec.

I'm trying to get them to add my smart alec in there a little bit, or my my mean side, like if I've had too much coffee. But so far it's a little nicer than I am. But that's okay. We can go with that.

Rachel's a little nicer over her nicer version of me anyway, so. And Jade is, too. So there you go.

So ask your question at ramseysolutions.com, or click the link in the description if you've been listening on a podcast or on YouTube.

Ask Ramsey, the new AI tool.

Free, completely free. Give it a shot.

All right, Troy is in Toledo. Hi Troy, what's up?

Hi Dave, how you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Great. Um, my wife and I are self-employed. We're in our mid-60s, and

we're approaching semi-retirement.

Uh, my wife does all the financing, and has put us in a very good position of life. Um, I would want to I'm going to

purchase an RV, so we can start adventuring out. She wants to pay off the mortgage first.

How much money do you have that's a good position?

Well, we probably we have like um 1.25

in real estate. Mhm. Um, we have about

550 in mutual funds, as far as our investment goes. Mhm.

And how much is the mortgage balance?

Uh, about 425

on a 1.7 house.

Okay. That we just built 3 years ago.

And what's your income?

Uh, between we're self-employed. Um, anywhere between 3 and 400 a year. Okay.

Between the two of us. So, you can pay off the house in like 2 years, right?

Well, we're we're on a good track, but we are approaching three to four. She wants to push it a little bit harder. Okay. Yeah. How much is the RV?

Um we're looking anywhere between two and 300.

Okay. >> Hopefully putting a hundred down. Okay.

Oh, financing.

Yeah. Yeah. I would not buy it if I didn't pay cash. I wouldn't buy it if I didn't pay cash for it. I would buy a used one instead of a new one because they really go down in value. Like

unbelievable go down in value.

Um That was a used And um So, and I would pay off the mortgage first. In the meantime though, I don't mind scratching your itch. You have a great income. You've got a great net worth. You've done a great job. You're just not quite across the finish line, and I would scratch the itch but just by renting one for the few weeks or weekends that you wanted to.

I mean, you can rent that same 300,000 for nothing.

Yes. We we have one, Dave. It's just not the one that Oh, you already own one?

Interesting. >> Yes. So, would you be selling that one taking the hundred? Is that where the hundred was coming from?

That's part of the hundred, yeah. Okay.

And and our concern is we're both relatively healthy, and yet we have some concerns that if we wait four or five years, we may not be in a position >> Well, you take the one you got and go on the road.

Shut up. You have one. It I know, but it You you Listen, the only difference is not that you don't get to go while you're healthy. The difference is you don't get to go in the style you wanted to go.

This is true. How old are you? 65 or 66

you said. Um it's I'm 62. My wife is 67. 62. Yeah,

okay. Yeah, I mean Yeah, you're doing great. You're doing great, but do not finance stuff

period on what might happen someday. And

all you're talking about is an upgrade here. It's like I have a boat, but I want a bigger boat. Yeah. And I might die someday. Yeah, you're going to die for sure. And you're going to get sick before you die. It's usually how it happens. So, but yeah, you don't go finance a boat to celebrate that idea.

No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now, she wins the argument. >> Yeah, I agree. Definitely pay the mortgage off first. Throw the flag.

Boom, you're done. I don't finance it.

Victoria is in Washington, D.C. Hey Victoria, what's up?

Hello. Um, nice to you guys. I I just kind of started tuning in not too long ago,

which I regret for some financial decisions I've made in the past. Oh, I thought you said you regret tuning in. I was starting to worry.

Oh, we all feel that way. >> not tuning in sooner. Yeah.

Um, well, I guess about a year ago I was kind of drowning in minimum payments because I had racked up a good amount of credit card debt cuz I bought my house at when I was 22 and I didn't understand the cost that comes with owning a house.

And so, I about a year ago I was looking

through options and I chose to do a debt settlement, which I didn't fully understand what that was, but they promised a lower monthly payment that I could maintain, so I did it.

Um, and I'm currently on baby step two.

Um, and I should have all but two loans

paid off by the end of this year. Good.

And those two loans is which I they call

the debt settlement a loan, but it's there's no interest on it. And then I'm finishing grad school, and um, I finished grad school at the end of this year, and I so I'll have to start paying

all my student my student loans, which are about 70,000.

Um, and that includes undergrad and grad. Um will happen to your income when you finish grad school?

Um unfortunately, well, I'm also getting I'm an engineer, so I'm getting my professional engineering license. Um I'm not exactly certain what they're um what I'm going to get. I'm hoping it's not going to be a a much of a a large It's not going to be a big jump.

>> I make 96. Okay, so why are you getting all these licenses and graduate degrees if they're not causing your income to go up? Uh the graduate degree is more of a long-term hopefully get my income up. Uh it's just that I'm so young and I guess inexperienced that it doesn't necessarily help me now, but it'll help in my career trajectory.

>> How old are you? >> And then I'm 26.

Mhm, don't know if I believe that or not. I want you to investigate. I want you to investigate that because one of the things we found is engineers have the highest probability of becoming millionaires of any career track.

So that's really good. >> I am civil, so we do make less than some, but there That's another question I've been I've been battling with is there's opportunities out there that I could leave my current job and make 70% more than I do now, but I love what I do so much and I >> I don't love it that much.

I could learn to love it a lot for 70% more. Mhm. We're talking about an $80,000 a year raise.

Yes, that's that's what I was going to say. >> Even if you just even if you just did it for 3 or 4 years.

Yeah, definitely. >> Yeah, so I am applying to that position.

Um and >> You never told us You never told us how much the first consolidation loan was for.

Uh that originally was for um it was for

40,000 and I think I owe 35 right now.

>> Mhm. Okay, so you're >> my student loans are 70 and I guess my question is I know that the snowball effect is supposed to pay off the smaller loan, but my student loans are going to have a 6% interest.

>> Don't care about the interest. I care about you getting out of debt in in 20 minutes. Take the new job, make a lot more money, pay off debt quickly. Mhm. That's what I would do. And list them smallest to largest. If you pay it all off in a year, it's not going to matter. Yeah, if you especially if you take the dog the job where you're making double, you're making 180 instead of 96 or you know, 160 and then you live

off 60, you're just just you. Yeah, just clean up the stinking mess. And if you pay it off in 1 year, the interest rates don't matter.

They're irrelevant cuz they don't have There's no actual monetary creation by the interest rate. They don't create any actual money.

Um if you're going to if you're going to keep it around like a pet for 5 years, now we worry about interest rates. >> Mhm. But yeah, you need to get in attack zone. You are being classic engineer, you're overanalyzing.

Hit this with an atom bomb between the eyes.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go Go

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Patrick and Tiffany are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Oh, we're fired up.

>> to be here. >> Welcome. Well, good to have you. Where do you live? We live in Rock Springs, Wyoming. Fine. Welcome to Nashville. And

how much debt have you guys paid off?

$506,700.

WOW! AND HOW LONG did this take? 93

months. 93 months and your range of income during that time? Uh we started at 190 190,000 and we're now at 300,000.

Very cool. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a maintenance manager in the oil and gas industry. Ah, okay. Yep, and I'm in healthcare. Good for y'all. Well done. So, I'm guessing with that period of time and that amount of money you paid off your house. You got it. LOOK AT THAT, WEIRD PEOPLE! >> YES, SIR. >> 100% DEBT-FREE! YES. Way to go, you

guys. So, what's this house worth? About 650. All right, cool. And how much in your retirement nest egg? About 525.

>> So, you broke the Baby Steps Millionaires barrier. We got her. You're in there. I like it. How old are you two? Uh both just turned 40 or just turned 40 about a month ago. So, you're 40-year-old millionaires in Wyoming.

Paid for house, the retirement is underway, you're making 300 grand, took 93 months to get

the house and everything paid off. So, how'd you get connected to Ramsey? What's your Ramsey story? So, Christmas of 2017, uh my dad and stepmom, they always get their kids themed gifts and that that year was finance books.

So, I received Financial Peace Revisited by Dave Ramsey. I'd never heard of you a day in my life. So, January, cracked the

book, started reading it, and man, it just made sense. You know, you weren't trying to sell me anything. You were just laying things out. I knew my sister got another book by Dave Ramsey, and it was The Total Money Makeover. So, I asked her, "Hey, can I borrow that book?" She said, "Oh, yeah, I'm not going to read that."

So, I read that like a week, and there's the plan. It's just laid out, and man, I

I couldn't believe it. I'm just so excited. So, I approached Tiffany, and she was a little reticent, but took her a little bit to get on board, and March 1st, 2018, we started the plan.

Uh you know, from reading the book, I found out you had a radio show, started listening to that, and I remember the very first week I was listening, a couple from Connecticut called in with the debt-free scream, and I was just like, "What What is this?" I was so confused, but continued to listen to the show, and about 3 weeks in, uh listened to a debt-free scream, and afterwards, you said Proverbs 22:7, "The

rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender." And you repeated, "The borrower is slave to the lender" like three times.

And man, it hit me like a ton of bricks.

It took my breath away.

And I was just I was just got so angry cuz I didn't

want to be a slave, and I never realized I was. And so, from that point forward, we were on fire. Started coordinating FPU. I took Financial Coach Master Training, and just Man, we just Wow. >> ate, slept, and breathed this stuff in.

It's an amazing program, and I just love what it can do for people. I never thought a million years I'd be in this financial position where I am today, and I'm just so grateful for your teachings, and just want to spread the word to everybody, and everybody that I meet, yeah, it's always I always make sure it comes up in conversation cuz I just I can't believe what this has done for us. It's been amazing. Thanks. Well, uh Tiffany, when we're through with your husband, we'll send him back.

Yeah. Gracious. Yeah.

It is it's a it's a daily conversation where we live, for sure. >> The Body Snatchers have come. Yeah. How How did you get into it? How did How did you intersect through all of this?

So, he sat me down and was like, "Hey, I want to do this." And I said, "Hold on.

You're putting me on a budget because you spend a lot of money." I got to get out of here. Time out here.

And so, he was like, "Just give me 3 months. 3 months." And so, I said, "Okay." So, we went through our first 90 days and after that, like I found that I wasn't affect, you know, like I wasn't affected much. I was still doing what I was doing cuz I'm not the spender of the family. So, it didn't really hit me much.

So, it was like, "Okay, we're going to do this and put You're going to put yourself on a budget.

we're just very, very grateful that Yeah. he was turned on to you guys.

Yeah, it's been a lot of life in 8 years, you know, we've Carly was 1, our daughter, when we started the program. Our son was born March 20th, 2020 or March 14th, 2020.

Um about 8 months in, he was diagnosed with a real aggressive form of leukemia.

Oh, no. Yeah, it was been a 10-month battle and unfortunately, he lost his battle in September of 2021, but

he was such a such a battler and we we miss him, but you know, so we've been through a lot, but this, you know, was a good distraction after that. Just something to pour into and to keep focused and keep going. You know, I dreamt of this moment for 8 years. I've ever since I heard the first one, it's like, man, we're we're going to get there.

We're going to do it. And and we're here. I can't believe the heartbreak that goes with the the process. So, the highs are high and the lows are low.

Absolutely. I mean, it's very real. >> And we felt them both. Yeah, it just makes us real, bittersweet, and all those words, right?

>> Absolutely. >> Wow. Well, I'm so sorry. Thanks.

And I'm so happy for you.

>> proud of you. Thanks. And I know you brought family with you. I met the parents a minute ago. They're happy and cheering you on. So, who were your best cheerleaders? Who were your best cheerleaders? The one that gave you the book? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think they never thought I'd ever, you know, take it to extremes, obviously. So, >> Did Did your sister ever come around?

>> I was going to ask. >> Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Okay. Yeah, they're babyish, I think, but >> Okay. Someday. Well, they'll get there.

They'll start seeing it what your >> life looks like and it'll happen. Yeah.

Yeah, now now it's just amazing, you know, we spent the past 8 years getting out of debt and now we're excited to be able to live and give and do what we want. >> the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate with all this money? Cuz you're killing it, man. Well, we went to Legoland last week with >> Woo! There you go. Yeah. >> What a What a celebration, right? We get out of debt and go to Legoland.

Hey, so exciting. It's all about who wants to go. Absolutely.

>> We told our daughter once we we hit this milestone, she could pick her own vacation. >> And she did. >> So, she did. So, off to Sandusky we went. >> going to do? What's your next vacation?

Uh we want to do maybe go on some cruises. We did one uh for our 10th anniversary and that was really fun. I think we'd like to do a couple of them.

Go to the Caribbean and >> Yeah. >> So, Good. Good. Yeah. You live like no one else. Later, you can live and give like no one else. You're 40-year-old millionaires >> Wow. >> and 100% debt-free. Do you ever think you'd say that? No.

Not even close. >> Yeah. Nope. I love it.

I'm so proud of you. Way to go. I know the family is, all kidding aside. I Um they're they're they're beaming when I came out there and met them a while ago.

And so, absolutely incredible. So, very well done, you guys. All right, your coach and uh Tiffany, you're uh on board and partner in this whole thing. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is and being a millionaire by the time you're 40?

You know, the key, like they always say, is definitely the budget. But, I think you get that fire in your belly, you get you get that anger and that drive, and you can change and do anything. So, I think you just got to get mad enough and and you'll change. You know, just like you always say, what you focus on is what you win at.

Simple advice, but it it works. Amen.

So, 9 years grinding it. Was it worth it? Oh, Oh, yes. >> absolutely. So worth it. Yeah, anybody listening to this, just do it. Like Dave always says, just just start. Just go.

And man, you it it's amazing what it'll do for you. I can't argue with the fact it worked. That's the way to go.

Absolutely. Because you worked. You worked your tail end off. All right, bring Miss Carly up. You said she's 9?

Yep. Yep. Come on, Miss Carly, you join in on the debt-free scream. Way to go, Legoland. I love it. That's a good suggestion. Well done. All right, Patrick and Tiffany and Carly from Wyoming. What was your son's name?

Paxton. And Paxton, 100% debt-free house

and everything. Baby Steps Millionaires by the time they're 40. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. 3 2 1

WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

YEAH!

THIS IS HOW IT WORKS, BOYS AND GIRLS.

Watch them. This is it.

>> When I talked to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar.com only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

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It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Our scripture today, Proverbs 14:30, "A heart at peace gives life to the body, but envy rots the bones." Theodore Roosevelt said, "I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well. Mhm.

He would. He would. That's cool. Very neat. Uh Jeff's in Austin, Texas. Hi Jeff, how are you?

Good day. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Not much. So, this call is mainly about

my mother. She uh is on limited income.

She makes about $1,600 a month from Social Security. And she hasn't made any after life plans. And we went to the funeral home recently and they quoted us about $25 to $26,000.

I'm sorry. It gets It gets It gets better. So, obviously you know, we don't have that kind of money. So, they they said, "Well, we could do this on a payment plan. We could do this for $600 for the next 5 years of your life." And um >> Boy. I don't even know Yeah, I don't even know if my mom has that amount of time.

So, I I uh I'm torn because this is her last wish.

Well, that's why I called in. I wanted to hear your opinion. No, I mean I listen, I love people in my life, but the deal is it's not her She doesn't have any money, right?

She does not have any money. Okay, so she's not talking about paying for this. She's asking you to pay for this.

Well, she didn't She doesn't put it that way.

She hasn't explicitly asked for it, but in a way yes, she does. >> But I mean that's that's the expectation. Like she's not got a house that's going to be sold to pay for it.

She does own her house. It's It's in pretty bad shape though and honestly, I don't know what kind of money we're going to be able to get out of it. >> Well, you going to get 25,000 out of it?

I hope so. I hope at least that, yeah.

>> If she wants to spend her money on her funeral, I don't mind that.

Okay. I wouldn't do that.

But I'm not going to pay for it out of my pocket if I'm you.

Okay. And I think that's absurd. I think she got sold by a salesman.

Yeah, they wanted they wanted $400 for a video that they were going to make with some of her pictures. Like there was a bunch of add-ons and ridiculous things that they wanted to to throw in there.

So, Mom, you did not live your life in a Mercedes and you did shouldn't die in a Mercedes.

And if she doesn't want to sell her home, then that's just if she doesn't want to go to the >> it's no question.

Okay. When she dies, sell the home.

So, I would pay for it up front and then >> No, no, no, no. You don't prepay a funeral ever.

You preplan a funeral, but you never prepay a funeral. You're saying that it's going to take some time from the time that she passes to get the money from the sale of the house. >> lot of time. Yeah, cuz her her house is in horrible condition, so it's going to take a over a year probably to get the money.

Well, we don't know that. You could auction it the next weekend. I mean Yeah, that's true. >> Cuz it's junky.

Just just have an auctioneer come out and sell this stupid thing and pay for the funeral.

on the funeral appropriate to her situation.

There's no gain spiritually in what you spend on a funeral.

There's no gain for the people that are left behind that are grieving over what you spend for a funeral.

And so, no, I really I think she got sold.

Yeah, I think so, too. I think you I matter of fact, I would use a completely different funeral operator. I think this person's a slickster.

Okay. Because I don't think if I'm if I own that funeral home, I don't sell that lady to a $25,000 package.

Because this lady's broke.

And so, I'm not and and asking you to put it on payments. I'm not doing business with this guy.

Okay. I would go to a different funeral home and say I want the cheaper casket. You can buy a casket at Costco, you know that. Yes, I do. Absolutely know that.

>> And they're what? 1,300 bucks or something? I saw it the other day. I couldn't believe it. Costco's got freaking everything. And if you buy six, you get a deal. No, I'm kidding.

>> This is getting worse and worse. But truly, the average funeral cost is somewhere between $7,800 and $8,500.

That's the average nationally. Yeah, so that just gives you >> average including rich people. Exactly.

That's Thank you, Dave. Yeah.

So, it just gives you a a clear indicator that you were being I I would set a budget of five to six grand if I were her. If I'm you, I'd be willing to pay that and be reimbursed when the house sells.

I would not and and and that's after she dies.

You there? Yeah, I'm here. I'm here. Yeah, I thought it dropped. Okay. That's okay.

So, after she dies, we talk to the funeral home and see how long you can wait to pay the bill. A lot of times they'll wait till the estate gets some stuff cleaned up. There may be a little bit of money in her checking or whatever. And you you should have your emergency fund in place. And if you want to pay the six grand under the condition you're going to be reimbursed when the house sells, that's fine. I wouldn't do any more than that.

That's plenty here. Um and I wouldn't do business with the people you did that to cuz that just creeps me out. That's such

You're 100% right. That is such a hard conversation to have.

That sounds like a terrible conversation.

Yeah, I But I mean, she can choose to do otherwise. Yeah, she can choose.

>> But she doesn't have the choice to prepay it. >> Because she doesn't have any money. Prepaying a funeral, by the way, people is really done. Never prepay a funeral.

Preplan your funeral.

So, that's wonderful. That's a gift to your loved ones. >> like buying the burial plots ahead of time? >> buy the burial plots, pick the casket, pick out how the service, write everything down how you want it to go, >> Mhm. and set the budget on it, and they can just write the checks when you die, then that's a that's a gift. People that are grieving don't have to make decisions. >> already been done. >> want the Chevrolet coffin, or did she want the Mercedes coffin? I don't know about Mom. What would Mom really want?

Oh, brother. And you know, write it all down. Don't bury me in the diamond. Wear it, you know, whatever. I write it all down. Tell people. That way you when they're grieving, it's all planned. But do not write a check to the funeral home. Maybe buy the plots if you want to do that. But do not write a check prepaying the funeral the funeral home.

Because from that point forward, you make zero return on your money except for the inflation rate of a funeral.

Which is about the normal inflation rate, about 4 or 5%. >> Mhm. So you're making nothing on your money. Funeral home's got your money for what? 5, 10, 15, 20 years? I don't know.

That's a good point. >> And don't prepay. Just pay it when they die. Pre-plan it is fine. So I would say, "Mom, here's what I suggest. I love you. I think a $6,000 funeral is fine.

The average funeral in America is seven, and you don't have any money. And I got to pay it when you die, and it's got to be reimbursed out of the house, and I need to see the will that says that. And we can set all that up, and I'll go to a different funeral home with you, and we can pick out everything and plan it, and you're going to be just fine. And I'm going to make sure you're taken care of with dignity, and we will all be sad either way.

funeral home to have a profit. Now, does your your thought process on that does that play out the same if you're like if you're wealthy? The the opportunity cost on them holding that money? For sure. Never prepay. I haven't prepaid.

I don't recommend you prepay. If you want to buy the plot, that's fine, but don't prepay a funeral. It's the worst deal ever. The younger you are, the dumber the deal is. Well, yeah, cuz then they're holding the money and they're making money. >> money. Yeah, I mean, if you took $6,000 that you're in your 30, what's that going to be? It's going to be three Yeah. 600,000 bucks.

>> it. Yeah. 6 or 700,000 bucks if it were invested? That's a good point.

>> And and you know, what are you? King Tut? I mean, who needs a $700,000 funeral? I mean, come on. Okay. So no, you don't need that funeral. That's that's a bad deal. No, you just you The opportunity cost is a big deal on this stuff, and this is how these people make a living.

Right. >> And and they do really well. The margins are, as you might guess based on this discussion, pretty incredible. >> Yeah. Oh, boy. Yeah, cuz he was about to get sold. Oh, man.

>> Take it for a ride. >> Mama done got Mama done signed up for the whole thing for her son to pay $600 a month for five just a measly 5 years. Easy 60 payments.

>> Oh, boy. Oh, boy. It's like a car payment on a casket. It's a vehicle. A hearse. >> Can't even drive it. Can't even drive it.

We're making too many jokes. Well, I mean, you got to have some fun with this stuff. >> I know. >> People are dying everywhere. You got to have some fun. All right.

So, so we've learned something valuable here. Don't prepay your funeral.

>> That's right. And if you want to pay a ridiculous sum for your funeral, you need to have that ridiculous sum in the bank. >> Mhm. Don't ask your loved ones to pay for that. That's unfair.

That is not right. Mom, you should not be doing that. And the funeral home sales guy ought to be smacked silly.

That's just your That's just irresponsible at a minimum, immoral at a maximum. And so, don't sell people stuff they can't afford, people. It's not a It's not a good way to make a living. You should You should make a living otherwise. You should do something completely different from that. So, wow.

Interesting question. I don't think I've had that one in a while. >> Very fun. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 42. Don't Let People's Opinions Influence Your Financial Decisions | May 8, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney. So, give us a call at 88825-5225 to talk about your life and your money and your relationships. We are here for you. The phone lines are open. All right, kicking us off this hour is Grace in Boston. Hey, Grace. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Um, so basically, this is kind of a real

mess. I'm drowning. So, I'm drowning in

a lack of transparency over the course of the past 3 years. We sold our house 3 years ago in 2023 when I was expecting our fifth child. Bottom line is um we

had to move because we had real difficulty in Massachusetts finding a an education that wasn't completely crazy.

Um uh we were pretty conservative and I

just found the state incredibly difficult to navigate. So we moved closer to the kids um school, but in the

process we never had a contingency and we just sold our house without having a place to move into. Long story short, we moved into my childhood home, which was sitting uh empty, luckily.

>> And uh we sold our house and made

$700,000 off of it in 2023.

>> Um and I moved half of that money over

to a kind of secondary house that we purchased. >> And so we were left with 325 of which we've spent. My husband borrowed 50,000 from me in 2024. In 2024, I also

borrowed about 75,000 from my family um

my my mother and then in 200 uh 200 two

2025 last year >> I asked for an early inheritance uh and received an early inheritance uh because my husband said that we were going to we

were looking for a house. We were >> um actively for the past two years

looking for a house. So unfortunately

when we sold our house uh there was a delay on the other party's end for closing. So it went from 30 days to 90 days and in that time the interest rate really went up. So we kind of got um our

intention to buy a house really got thwarted. Um and uh in that time period

I don't know if my husband was making any money because we seem to have gone through considerable amount amount of money kind of just waiting to buy a house and so I needed a little bit more money to put down as a down payment asked for 240,000 that was last June and since then have gone through it >> where but it didn't go to it didn't go through to a down payment correct >> no it did not

>> just since June So about 11 months ago,

just daily living. So as I said, we're

in a very expensive state, Massachusetts. Um I was paying for a ton of health care costs. So one of my children is sick. Uh I was paying for

just, you know, different medications out of pocket. In January, I kind of woke up and said, "Do we not have healthcare?" And my husband said, "Uh, you're using the wrong pharmacy." And then in February, I said, "Do we not have healthcare?" and he said, "Yeah, I don't I don't know if we do." So, I immediately went on Mass Health and um

since February, I have told my husband to leave until he can find a job. So, he

owns his own company, was telling me for the past 3 years since we sold our house, he was making $30,000 a month.

Um, and we were in good shape and he was managing everything. And then I pushed and pushed and pushed since December to find out some transparency around some issues and kind of threatened to hire a financial planner which he was not uh into. And I then set a lawyer for some transparency and he said he'd show me the loans. He showed me the loans. And then finally uh 2 months later I found out just last week that he's he took out

650,000 in loans.

>> 450,000 are personal. 200,000 are business all

since 2021. None of which I've known about. So obviously >> where did that 450 go?

>> I have no idea. I I So he said that he's

made a dent and he's managing the debt.

And I said, "Can I see the whole profile? How much you actually took out?" And that's when he said he showed me it was 650. He's paid in the past few years 200,000 towards that debt.

>> So you guys are almost a million dollars in just consumer debt from loans.

True. >> Okay. And >> Okay. So, >> this is >> But this is all uh new to me. This is all extremely new. >> I know. But Grace, this is all new to you. And your husband borrowed more than half a million dollars, lied to you about it, and all that's true. Okay.

100%. >> And you borrowed 240,000. Well, I guess from you got it from the inheritance.

Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, >> yeah. Not to pay back. >> But here here's what I want to point out.

Like you you have your mess is very much

financial. No question. But your mess is much deeper than owing a million dollars, right?

>> Meaning it's the lack of communication.

>> Meaning like the moment your husband took out a $50,000 loan from his wife, you stopped being his wife. You became his banker, >> right? and you became his his like the

whole dynamic here is such a mess,

>> right? >> Yeah. Um, can I just can I just add one thing? You're right. When we when he asked for me that $50,000, it was literally one week after we moved all of

our stuff into a rental while we were

waiting. He said, "Let's just rent a place until we can find a place." And >> but the language you used was he borrowed 50,000 from me.

>> Yeah. And you're >> Yeah, he borrowed it. He said, "I'll pay you right back. I'm just" But that's what John said. >> That's That's what I'm saying. Like I would I can't ever imagine asking my wife to borrow money cuz it's all ours,

>> right? And if if if she's going to say, "Hey, we're so broke. I need to go ask for an early inheritance like Old Testament style." I I would we have to

sit down. We we would talk about that and we would make plans for what we're going to do next.

>> And we're not perfect, don't get me wrong, but that's what I'm saying.

you you're running two concurrent businesses inside your house. You're both spending out of control and you're both getting money from different places. Sometimes telling the other person it's done, sometimes not. His his hole he's dug is way deeper than the one you dug, but y'all are both digging your own holes.

>> Mhm. >> Right. So like you've got a huge mess.

How can we help?

>> Uh right. So,

well, I mean, I'm fortunate to have the house that I grew up in and that's where we're living. >> Okay. But why we're living the rental go? Do you say there was something about a rental? >> You rented and you bought another house.

Like, what are y'all doing?

>> Yeah, correct. He told me, "We haven't found a house." This was back in 2024.

We haven't had a found a house yet, so let's just rent a place. >> But you were already in a home, right? >> But you were in your childhood home, right? >> Yeah. But he just, you know, I didn't know, I didn't know the financial mess we were in. And he said, I know you don't want to live there. So, you know, it's a >> Okay. So, you're not in your childhood home right now. You're in a rental.

>> We are back. That was 2024. Now, it's 2025 26. We're in my childhood home.

>> Okay. Yeah. You So, you >> your rental year rental. And you had $250,000 that you took from >> And then where where is you said we went to buy another property with that 250.

Where did that go?

>> No, we we I just we lived on it the past

few months. >> You know what, Grace? We're we have to head into a break. I want to keep you on the line cuz I do want to kind of untangle some of this to really help you cuz I we want to be able to give you ahead >> a plan. Um so stay on the line. Um, and

we will, uh, yeah, we'll come back after this break, um, to break down a little bit more of the financials to get you guys on a path. And then definitely the relational side, which John can speak into, cuz I think that that is, um, there's a gaping hole there and both need to be fixed and talked about and addressed. So, we want to help

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All right, we we are back and we're going to go back to Grace and she's in Boston. And to recap the call, if I can,

there's a lot of details. So, Grace, if I don't get this correct, I just want to make sure. Go ahead. >> Um, you're married. You guys back in 2023

sold a house but didn't have a house.

Um, and so there's been a big mixup within taking money from loans, inheritance. Um, a lot of things have happened even medically this past year.

And all in all, close to a million

dollars in just consumer debt loans. And

that's kind of where we ended, I guess, to a degree. Does that all sound pretty correct? Okay, >> it does. I I just want to add a couple things. Um, factually, he had been divorced uh three times when I met him.

Uh he had also been bankrupt twice prior to meeting him and when I met him he had four boys from two prior marriages. So they're grown up. They don't he doesn't pay alimony or child support at this point in time to that uh extent but we've been married for 16 years.

>> So >> and we have our own five children. >> So Grace, let me

can I talk to you directly? But you know that like I'm on your I'm on your team.

Is that cool? >> Of course. >> Okay. Um, what you just told me gave me

even more fuel to the fire I was feeling

during the break.

You married a guy that has been a financial disaster, right? He's really struggled. He also had kids from multiple like you you knew who you were signing up to do life with. And yet

you have continued and by the way he's not on the phone so I can only talk to you. you have continually

said well whatever I trust you you said this and so I want you to also hold some

of the respon a huge half of the responsibility here in that I didn't ask

questions I I started spending money I burned through a4 million dollars in three or four months paying medical expenses without even asking the question do we have health insurance that's not his fault >> right >> no no 11 months >> or 11 like whatever 11 months, that's still a lot of money to just rip through, right? And not to sit down with my 16-year spouse and say, "Hey, we have

this big thing coming up with our kid.

We need to navigate this thing together." >> Right? And so, it's it there has to be a not only do you and now you're threatening him to hire a lawyer. I want to see transparency. I think the the only way you you guys can even have a prayer to make it through the financial mess, much less the relational mess, is that you sit down at the table, both of you, no threats, no none of that stuff,

and both of you say both of us have contribute to contributed to this. I for

a year had a free house to live in my childhood home and I complained about it. Didn't want to live here. And then he went and rented something. We had no money and then we did this and we bought this other house, but we're not going to live there because that's our special rental. All both everything just has to stop. Everything has to stop and say we have created a mess. The only way forward is if we get on the either we

divorce because of the financial infidelity or we have to say we have to

live differently starting today. Do you get what I'm saying?

>> Mhm. And if you don't h if you don't feel any shred of ownership over the position you're in, there's no path forward for you because you're just going to walk in and blame and blame and blame and blame and he's going to either shut down like he's been doing the last 15 years or he's going to head off on a separate path. And so both of you have to sit down and say, "We have created a mess. We haven't asked the right questions.

We have lied to each other." Or he has to say, "I lied to you." Whatever.

>> Do we want to build a new one? And here is all of the excavated um foundation from the old marriage. We're starting at dirt. Do we want to rebuild a new thing together? You get what I'm saying?

>> Yes. >> It's that level. >> And I would say on your end, Grace, I mean, tell me what you think of this of Yes. He Grace, you know, I do I'm with John. Like there was a level of responsibility that Yeah. you didn't take, but also he did hide

>> half a million dollars. >> Um Yeah. Oh, I mean Yeah. Even more. Um

so the trust is broken on both ends probably more so maybe more so on your end and so learning a path forward to

rebuild that trust because the goal will be you guys working together and if that takes a journey and probably it's going to take a lot of therapy and all of that right to rebuild that trust um that's okay that's going to take time but the goal by the end of this when you guys sit down and say and do everything you know what John was just saying the end goal is that we are a household and financial potentially in big decisions and everything that falls in that bucket. We are doing this together. We don't make decisions about money without each other and I would say even more of a microscope because of his past financially of how he's act I mean of how he's handled money.

He's filed bankruptcy twice.

more scrutiny that every purchase we are going to we're going to be on a on a communication level that is probably more strict than the average couple out there. Rachel and I have sat with Dave and Sharon and Sharon that was that 30 years ago was their bankruptcy and still to this day Dave and they have they have resources till the end of time and they still talk about major purchases together because that core >> that core seed was planted 30 years ago of I didn't know how bad this was and so

from here on out we agree that we're going to talk through these things together. So, so that's that's the goal for you guys from a marriage pers perspective, Grace, from our position, like what we see is what we want for you all. But financially, how to dig out of this. Um, what are you guys making right now a year? Like, are you working? Is he working? What's going on with income?

>> Well, see, this is the thing. Just to back up, I did not just fall off of a turnup truck. I asked questions. I hired

financial advisors. I tried to do a Sunday night meeting with him every week and he'd fall asleep. He would say, "He's too tired. Now's not the time." This has been going on for not just three years, but 10 years. So, we sold two houses before that just to kind of make ends meet. So, it's it's been a pattern where he scorched the communication issues. So, in terms of me taking ownership of my stuff, yes, I do.

And I think that I agree with you, but it's hard to talk to someone who is constantly stating things that are untrue, like he makes 30,000 a month,

which maybe that was true during co or maybe not right now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I don't know cuz I ask him, could I get some bank uh transparency?

Can I just see what your the stream of income is? And he always says, it's complicated or I'm working on the numbers using the >> jar. Let's take it out of money. Let's say that he has a history of cheating on his on his past wives and then y'all get

together and every week you want to sit down and talk to him and say, "I want to reestablish trust. Can I see your phone?" And he says, "Absolutely not." And all of a sudden he you you see hotel receipts show up at the house. And you're like, "I didn't stay there. Who's there?" And he goes, "It's complicated." Would you stand for that?

>> No. >> No. So, what I want you to see is like when I say responsibility, absolutely.

You've been trying for 10 years. Panning back, we've been doing the same thing.

We've been trying to run the same play for 10 years and it has never worked.

>> Mhm. >> Right. That's where the ownership is. I don't want to say this is your fault and you're you I want you to just take ownership.

Okay. I've put up with this for 10 years. I'm done putting up with it. >> Yeah.

And then when it comes to the financial adviser, I've hired a guy, I've hired a woman, and neither person is right. They're always >> Yeah. And that's going to be his. So Grace, real quick, we have Yeah, we have about a minute and a half.

So I want to just real quick. No, you're good. How much are you guys making right now? Do you know what he's making?

What are you making? >> No idea. No idea what he's making. He said 30,000.

He said 20,000. Now it's 10,000. It ranges.

sued. >> His company is falling apart right now.

So he's getting sued. >> So what is under your name from a debt perspective? Cuz right now in my head, you guys are two separate entities. And we kind of were like you that doesn't need to be the case. It doesn't need to be the case right now because of everything. >> You're not safe. >> But what are you >> I don't have any debt. I don't have any.

>> But your your your mom, right? You you borrowed $75,000 from her at one point.

>> Yeah. No, I don't have any debt right now. I just have this Cape Cod asset right now that I'm trying to keep. It was going to be foreclosed on because he wasn't making the payment. I took ownership of it three months ago.

>> Is your name on the deed >> now? It is. >> It is now. And how are you is it paid for?

>> No, I mean the paying the how are you going to pay the mortgage every month?

>> I just am tapping into that early inheritance and I have maybe four or >> 500. So, are you planning on going and making an income?

>> Um, I make very little money and I have

uh I teach on the side and then I have some sort of >> So really, so my my advice for you of what I feel like what we can say right now is yes, keeping everything separate right now. >> Um, and you have to take care of your Grace. So yeah, you are probably going to have to go make an income because this 250 and the way it's been the pattern in the past, it's going to be gone in 3 months if you're not careful.

And so you need to start getting job. You need to >> be doing a budget and you need to be taking care of food, shelter, utilities, transportation. And then the whole mess of the marriage and his finances is going to have to be untangled and that's going to take a while and probably some professionals to step in and help.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance going to replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

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Baltimore. Hi, Summer. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, how are you guys? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Good. Um, so I was wondering should I

accept financial help from my parents for tuition knowing that they're in debt? Um, I am so grateful that they want to help me. Um, I just I feel so guilty knowing

that accepting that money knowing that they're in debt. I'm not sure exactly how much debt that they're in, but I know that they have consumer the house and car loans and things like that.

>> Okay. Are How old are you, Summer?

I'm 23. >> You're 23. So, is this your first time

entering college? Are you getting a master's? Like, what what are you going after degree-wise?

>> So, I already got um my two-year degree

and I cash flowed that. I finished my third year cash flowed it. So, I only have about a year and a half left. Good for you. >> I've paid Yeah, I've only I've paid my tuition so far throughout, but um I think the burnout is starting to hit me and they're noticing. So, they're getting a little bit more adamant about helping me with school. >> Oh my gosh. Well done, Summer. So, you've like literally like worked your way through.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's amazing. And so, then you've had conversations with them that it's just kind of tough and they're like, "Hey, let us help." >> And what are they saying they want to help with? Are they wanting to pay for everything outright for the next year and a half or one semester or

>> They are wanting to help with half each semester. >> Okay. Okay.

I So for me, Rachel, hop in here. For me, Summer, man, I think every friend I have outside

of this ecosystem that I where I work.

>> Mhm. >> Has some sort of consumer debt.

>> Yeah. >> Whether it's a mortgage that they I've got one friend, I take that back, one friend who's a banker and he just thinks

it's dumb to have personal debt. But beyond that, every friend I have and it's a values judgment, right? They all make great money. They just choose to live their life differently than I do.

And so for me, the question would be less about we have a different value when it comes to having a card to loan versus not. And the question I would ask myself as a kid is, are my parents harming them? Are are they doing something that I know is going to be detrimental to them? Or do they do they

have a lot of money? They have pretty good money and also they make car payments every month.

>> Yeah. So that's where I kind of feel like I get into a rock and a hard place because I know that they're not fully set up for retirement. Um and that's what gives me a lot of anxiety um

accepting that kind of money knowing that they could be putting that towards their own retirement but they they choose not to. They >> but they haven't chosen to but they haven't chosen to in the past though, right? >> Yeah. going to >> Yeah.

that it wasn't decided because of you're in college and they want to help with that and they stopped their retirement to help you. They were never going to do it in the first place probably. >> No. No, they weren't.

>> Yeah. >> They still don't. >> I think your heart is great and I would probably feel the same way if I'm like golly. So, I think trusting your gut is what you need, but I also don't want to put guilt.

on you. you you've not made these decisions for them. They have made them.

As your parents, they have offered to help. And >> I don't know, there's a part of me that I'm like, they're making these decisions. I don't think this would change their decision- making one way or the other. So, it's not like you are

>> adding to this, you know, I don't know, there's you're stopping some motivation of like going in the right direction.

But again, I know you don't want to keep digging them deeper in it. There's a part of me that would accept it. Is that bad, John? I think John is a psychologist. >> I I would I I mean, I I would I would take somebody's help. I think the um

man, I've mentioned this several times the last few days on the show. Um a friend of mine, Becky Kennedy, who's a psychologist in New York, she goes by Dr. Becky, she reframed guilt for me.

So, I'll ask you this question. Is it against your values to accept help?

Do you hear me, Summer?

>> You know, you cut out there. Is it against your values to accept help?

>> Is it Is it against your personal values to accept help? >> Period. Yeah, it sounded like there was more. There was >> question mark. I think you could out just yes or no. >> Help with what? Help with what? Yeah.

>> Um I guess not.

>> Okay. Is it against your personal values to pay cash for college?

Um, no. >> Okay. Is it against your personal values to ever accept money from somebody who is in debt?

>> No. >> Okay. So, if those are your values, then

the thing you're feeling is concern and and and frustration with your parents, and you're choosing to take their issues and try to carry them on your own.

>> Mhm. And if you as a 23-year-old are already doing the math and you're like, "They're probably going to be living with me one day." That might be your reality, right?

>> Mhm. >> Um, and also maybe not, maybe they don't tell you everything.

>> Maybe you don't know they have a pension or what they like. Who knows what their situation is, but if you're not doing anything that violates your own values, and by the way, if it's against your values to ever take a dime from somebody who doesn't who who is in debt, then don't take their money because that would be a violation of your values. you'd feel guilty cuz I violated my core values. If it's not, >> then I would be grateful for the gift and go on about my life.

>> They're going to start asking me what my grades are and why >> and you just you've been doing it on your own, you want to grind it out for 18 more months and be finished. Then just stay on the path >> or they expect to be paid back at some point, right? >> Yeah. They're gonna call you and say, "Hey, where's our money?" >> Yeah.

borrowing money versus the it being a true gift would be a >> Yeah. >> No, not at all. That's would be a >> no. Yeah.

sit down and have the conversation as a 23-year-old, I can tell you it's probably not going to go well. But if you say, "Hey, I would love this gift.

I'm concerned about y'all's financial situation." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm curious, Summer, how do you know that they're in a bad spot? I mean, I know you mentioned car loans because maybe in passing they've talked about it, but how do you know that they're not contributing to retirement or, you know, these kind of things that you've thrown out? Have they told you or you guys have talked about it?

>> Um, I'm nosy, so I ask I ask if they

have a a Roth IRA separate than their 401ks and um they don't really know what it is, things like that. Um, I know that they have 401ks with their with at least my dad does with his work. Um, and I've seen it, but again, it's not um, it's

concerning to me for their retirement. I get I get worried for them because they've worked so hard, too. So,

>> no, absolutely. And I think one of the best things, you know, and it sounds like you guys have a good relationship that you can at least have somewhat of these conversations. And not that you're going to try to change them because that does no good of really pretending like you can come in and swoop in and save the day on their financial journey.

money, you know, those kinds of things.

And, you know, and bring it up in conversation of like, man, >> debt just seems to bother me. I don't know why. I don't know where that comes from, but like what do y'all think about, you know what I mean? And just have like just more c, you know, a casual conversation with your parents because it sounds like you guys can have those.

systems at which you've placed money which might be different than them and actually again not in a weird teaching way but open up and talk about it and they may actually learn something >> or just something as simple as I'm nervous to take this money I'd rather see you all invest it for your retirement and see what they say to that. >> Yeah. Yeah. So Summer, you're awesome.

We appreciate the call. Um, yeah. If something goes sideways or crazy, call back on a day John's here and he can he can help untangle that. Thanks for the call, Summer.

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All right, let's go to Becca in Louisville. Louisville. Louisville. Hey, Becca. >> Hello. >> Welcome to the show. >> Hello. How are y'all doing today?

>> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, my husband and I just got out of debt two and a half weeks ago.

>> Congratulations yesterday. Thank you. Well done.

>> My car caught on fire yesterday.

>> Of course it did, cuz why not?

>> And I was wondering if we should go into debt for our new car. >> Of course. Yeah, for sure. Do that.

>> Stop. >> No. Becca. >> Becca. Oh, no. Okay, so what happened to the car? What causes it to catch on fire? >> You shouldn't drink gasoline and smoke at the same time.

>> So, actually, I was at my OB appointment cuz I'm also almost seven months pregnant with our first baby.

>> Oh my goodness.

Well, congratulations. >> I went inside and they were in the and they were talking about a car on fire outside. I thought nothing of it. Turns out it was my car.

And >> um we think it was a battery short or something like that, but I mean there's no way to really know for sure when your car catches on fire why it was on fire, but oh my gosh, everyone was okay and that's good. So >> that's terrible. Okay. Did insurance like jump in at any point?

>> So we don't think so. Well, we only had liability on the car cuz it wasn't worth very much and we didn't owe anything on it. >> Okay. >> So, we're probably not going to get anything from it, but we do have about $5,000 to spend on a car.

>> Well, beautiful. >> Um Okay. >> And the reason that I'm calling really is I feel like I may be being emotional about getting into debt. My mom and my

sister, they're both um also Dave Ramsey

fans and they are also debtree. And I

was just think like they were saying, "Well, Becca, you know, you're about to have a baby. You want to make sure you have a reliable car and that it's safe

for you and your baby and you don't want this to happen again and within the next few years." So, maybe you should >> I agree. Put a down payment down on a car and get something nicer.

>> So, I'm just wondering if I'm just being too emotional and and I should go into a little bit of debt. >> No. No. You know us too well. We're not gonna We will never steer you that way.

And I agree with them. I don't want this to happen again. Okay. I don't want your car to catch on fire. So, like we can agree up on that. >> Um, >> and they're tried to love you. Well, >> this is their >> they have the best intentions.

>> I'm just wondering if I'm being a little bit too emotional because I literally just got out. >> Listen, as a guy who's had a wife who's been seven months pregnant twice, I don't think there's such thing as too emotional. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> You're right on track.

>> You are you're perfect just as you are.

and your motherly instincts of like, "Oh my gosh, I want I want everything to be safe." But let me tell you, there's safe $5,000 cars out there, Becca. Just so you know, like when we were kids, well, not even me. I grew up in the late 80s, early 90s, even when my parent in the 70s. I'm like, "No, everybody just it like so there's a range on what safety means." And for some people, safety is a brand new car. to some people, you know, reliability on X, Y, and Z is what like

that can mean a lot of things for a lot of people, but I could tell you that there are Honda Civics out there that are as safe as they come, right? Camry or a Camry or like, you know, you're you will find you can find a safe car. Now, do you want to drive a $5,000 car your whole life? No, of course not. So, my >> I mean, I wouldn't care. So, >> I I drove a $4,500 Prius with two kids

in it >> and I'm a big tall guy. Yeah.

>> And I was in Texas and it was it was a season of shame for me. But that car was awesome and it was cheap and it got incredible gas mileage and it's still on the road today.

>> It's still out there.

>> I totaled it and they I repaired it and resold it. So like like all I have to

say is let me let me let me phrase it this way. Had your car not caught on fire, were you going to go buy a brand new car anyway?

>> No. >> Okay. Consider this your first big post baby step to challenge by the universe.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yep. And I know that's hard. >> Do you have other Do you have other cash available besides this 5,000 just for like medical stuff or like I don't know.

I'm thinking through the baby and all of that. I mean, technically, yes. Okay.

But I mean, >> well, good.

Yeah, that's a good thing. Like that I I would want some level of emergency fund, especially if you're going into labor and deliver, which is great. I'm not telling you to spend money. I just want to make sure that this $5,000 isn't the only thing keeping your head above water financially. How much is in the other account just as an emergency fund?

>> I mean, we have probably another 1,500.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, I'd probably buy a $3,500 card. How much how much did you guys make a month?

Like what were you put? Let me ask this, Becca. How much extra per month were you

throwing at debt 3, four months ago that

you now have in margin because you're debtree?

>> So my husband's he's a firefighter. His

salary is what was paying for like our living expenses. >> Okay. And then all the extra money, well not extra money, but the money that I make with my job, which is only around anywhere between a,000 to 2,000 a month because I do contract work.

>> Okay. >> Was going towards debt.

>> So, but I mean that's not going to be coming in for the first few weeks after I have a baby. That's also what made me like kind of freak out. >> 100%. But will you have $2,000 in May and June?

>> Most likely closer to 15 probably. But yes. >> Okay. >> Is there a possibility for two months?

And and I know his partners will get on him. Could you drop him off at the fire station?

>> Well, I I would I would do that, but he drives a manual car, and I can't do that. >> Oh, okay. Oh, >> well played, husband. Well played.

>> I'm going to get the stick. >> But we I mean, we have we have a we also have a farm, so I have a farm van I can drive for now, but there's nowhere to put a baby in that car, if that makes sense. >> Sure. Totally. >> But for two months, >> I need a car right now. This is a I need a car for when I have a baby.

>> Perfect. That's great. Well, so what I would say probably, Becca, honestly, is I would drive that farm van um until you

have the baby and then that and then

hopefully you'll have three to $4,000 saved before the baby comes extra than

what you have right now. And so let's just say it's let's say it's three grand

and then you have five grand for the car. I would probably wait and buy an

$8,000 car or even, you know, I would, you know, buy an $8,000 car in

three months. >> Yeah. Once the baby comes home, everything's good and everybody's rocking and rolling, then y'all go get an $8,000 car. >> Yep. >> And take that van up to the fire station when those guys are sitting in their recliners. And by the way, I I'm making jokes, inside jokes to my friends who are firefighters, but have those guys clean that van out for you and make it awesome.

>> Sounds great. >> Yep. Yep. So that that's what I would say. I would not buy anything right now and I would save, you know, $1,500 $2,000 in May and June and then go get a

$8,000 car. And $8,000 you can get you can get cars. >> You can do great with 8,000 bucks. >> Yes. Um so that's awesome. Well, Becca, I'm proud of you. So stick to your guns.

Don't fall back in. You can do this. And I promise you and your baby, you guys will be safe. All right, let's go to Sarah in Dallas. Hi, Sarah. How can we help? >> Hi. I just I wanted some objective adi advice on whether or not I should spend

$6,000 to get a certification that will

advance me in my career passionately, but I won't be actually making any more money. >> What does that mean?

>> So, I am a teacher and I love obviously

working with the kids, but the content that I'm teaching right now is um feels

kind of like beating my head against a brick wall. and I want to I already have my masters. I want to go back to school um to get 18 grad hours in English. That

way I can teach college level English.

>> Are you able to teach college level English? My mom was an English professor and she just retired. That's one of the single hardest jobs to get right now on a college campus.

>> Yes. So I would be teaching dual credit which would be on my same high school campus. >> Okay, great. >> Uh it Yes. I know I would be able to roll into that position in at least two the next two years probably. >> What's the stipen for that? Or is it just the same?

>> It it would it would be basically the same. >> Okay. I honestly if you have cash and

it's 6,000 bucks and it's going to move you to a position that's going to allow you to teach what you want to teach and give you 10 years of like work satisfaction doing a thing that you love. I I don't have a problem with it. >> Yeah. Do you have six grand, Sarah?

>> Yes. We um I I would have it. We would never borrow it. We would be able to work it into the budget and have it. I guess my main question is because I have uh I have three kids and 11-year-old twins and a four-year-old. And so when I'm looking at the next five, six years, I'm looking at braces and cars and >> well, y'all y'all work it out at your at your house. Like I I have a bunch of

guitars that if I added them all together would be more than 6,000 bucks.

But I do that cuz I love it and we could afford it, right?

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with Dr. John Deloney and we are hosting this hour of the show. So give us a call at8825-55225

and we'll be answering your questions about life and money. All right, let's go to Dominic in Pittsburgh. Hi Dominic,

welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys. Um so so I'm graduating

college this spring from West Virginia University and I just got with like a week ago I just got a job offer for $85,000 for an engineering job.

>> Nice. >> In Newport News, Newport News, Virginia.

So, it's for like a naval shipyard. So,

I've never actually been to the area before, and I'm trying to figure out if that's enough money to move there and actually start building a life without putting myself in a bad financial situation. >> $85,000.

>> Yeah. >> As a single 22-year-old.

>> Yes. >> Uh, >> yep. I think you're good. >> Yeah. Unless you're trying to like go back and forth to the moon, you should be good, brother. How much debt do you have? >> Okay. Uh, well, I actually have no student debt and I have a paid off car.

>> Nice.

>> So, you just need to know that like half of America just drove their car into oncoming traffic because they're trying to support families of three kids on $85,000. Yeah.

>> Yeah. The median, just to give you a perspective, the median household income is 62,000 in America right now.

>> Household, that's that's two spouses.

>> Okay. Yeah. Honestly, I've I've been doing a lot of research because I'm kind of I'm kind of I'm just nervous about moving to an area that I've never been to, especially because I mean I've I've live like I'm going to college in West Virginia. So, >> what part of Virginia are you moving to? >> West Virginia.

>> Uh so, it's close to Virginia Beach.

It's like the southern coast. It's like Norfol and Virginia Beach area.

>> Yeah. Down by the Trident. Like, hey, I would get a one-bedroom apartment.

>> Mhm. >> And ask. >> Yeah. I was looking at onebedroom apartments and looks like they would be about $15 to $1,600 a month.

>> That's about right. >> That's about right. >> And don't furnish it with a bunch of stuff. Listen, right now >> in a really nice house on our back patio, my wife, me and my wife and my son, my daughter were still asleep. We had breakfast this morning on a box with

a with like a sheet over it.

Okay. And I mean, if it works, it works.

>> That's what I'm telling you. Like, we need to I need to buy some outdoor furniture. That's totally on me. And my wife's been after me to do it forever.

But I want you to know like we had a great family breakfast this morning over a box with a sheet over it. So you're going to get yourself into trouble if you get the nicest apartment or you go try to buy a house in a town you don't know anything about and then you try to furnish the whole thing like all bananas. Um don't do that. Go in as low and slow as you can.

And also ask your incoming firm if they have a real estate office. A lot of those folks are do they have places where they can say hey this is a great neighborhood. This is a good apartment complex etc. Like every place I've ever moved, they always set me up with somebody who could help me navigate that system.

you're good to go. I would take and you'll continue to Yep. move up. It's amazing. >> All right, let's go to Cheryl in Fort Lauderdale. Hi, Cheryl. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Um, we've been pushing along baby step

two and I am literally down to just I paid off credit cards, I paid off a heliloc, I paid off one car payment.

Good for you. >> And now we have one more car to go.

Thank you. Um I realized part of all this I was supposed to pause on um contributing to my kids college funds and I looked into it to see if I could pause it and I can pause it and technically I can even take that money out. In the state of Florida, they have this sort of prepaid college plan that you can pay into that I did when my kids were young. And I've paid in $31,000 at

this point to both kids. And I owe 38,000 on my car. So my question is, do

I pull that money out and put it towards this debt and have my car paid off in the next two or three months and then start over or do I save some of that or

do I just pause it and leave the money where it is? >> Yeah. How much uh how much do you make a year or household income?

>> I make about >> Are you married? >> Uh yes, we make about 220 a year.

>> Oh, 220. Okay, that's great. Um no,

>> I would not >> I would not unplug the investment there and I would um Yeah, I would I would

just continue down that you got $38,000 of car debt and so how much how much extra can we throw at this or do we sell do we sell the car? Um you know, just to be done with it. Um, >> so yeah, >> I I I have I would have some major gastrointestinal issues pulling out an investment that's building one way to pay for a depreciating asset the other way. >> Okay?

>> Because the moment you put you pay 30 thou that 30,000 bucks on it in one year, that car is going to be worth less than that, >> right? >> Whereas that money would have been worth more than that. >> Yeah. And my oldest will be off to college in six years.

retirement and college and stuff is one.

I mean if you had like a random stock or something and you wanted to sell it uh just to be debtree >> but the the kids college and retirement all of that if you've already plugged things into those um yeah I would I

would I would just cash flow the payment of this. >> Y'all make 220. How quickly can y'all just buckle down and get this thing knocked out?

We're we're trying to we're we we still kind of struggle with the budget thing.

I have two boys in travel baseball, so we're just trying to understand what's

what's monetarily ne necessary every month and where can we really >> What could you sell the car for, Cheryl?

I'm just curious. Are you underwater on it? >> Uh, no. I could probably get 45 for it.

>> I would probably just sell it and be done. >> Sell it and be done. Go get a used

something >> cuz here listen or save save two save a

couple thousand between you know the next two months >> right? So here's what I've heard you say is your priorities travel baseball and whatever some coach tells you y'all need to fork over followed by a depreciating

asset car then

hopefully kids education. All of that seems backwards.

>> Yeah. I would put in I just tell you in

my house kids education is first.

Whatever depreciating asset me and my wife are driving around town comes second and then extracurricular activities will come after that. And that's just a values judgment.

>> Okay.

So make this >> you make enough money Cheryl to just

do pay this off. Okay. So you have that option. But if you're that if you're itching that badly to get out of this car payment, then sell it. I would sell it in a heartbeat more than Yeah. dip it into your kids's college.

>> Okay.

Okay. >> Which I know you probably don't want to hear that, but >> Well, no, that's I mean, just everything I keep hearing, I thought maybe I was supposed to stop because it's just all it does is it locks in the Florida tuition rate at what it was.

>> Yeah. And the prepaid tuition we're not big fans of anyways, but if that's the program that everything's already in, I don't know if you can shift or what that looks like. So, it's probably a >> different roll to 529 or something.

>> Yeah, if you're able to do that, the prepaid tuition thing kind of locks you in and it's not not the best option.

But, um, but yeah, there's there's a I

don't know. I'm like there it's the value system conversation, John, like what you were saying, but also, >> you know, our cars have such a grip on

us. Like, they really really do. And it's not a bad thing. And again, I think you guys can >> That grip is not as tight as travel sports, though.

>> Yeah. >> Good God almighty.

>> We'll get John on that rant in a little bit. Sh y'all. But hey, y'all are killing it. You really are doing awesome for not being great at the quote unquote budget thing. You've paid off another car. You paid off credit cards, a heliloc. I mean, you've done a you guys have done a great job and you're at the end. You're probably just exhausted. Um, but yeah, if you're that tired college for a car, >> um, yeah, I might get rid of the car.

I'd save up three to four grand. Go get a $15,000 car. That's what I would do.

But you guys are awesome, Cheryl.

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All right, we have Devin in Pittsburgh up next. Hi Devin, welcome to the show.

>> Hey Rachel and John, right?

>> Hello. Hello. How can we help today?

>> So I guess I'm coming a little too late to the realization that um I might have not chosen the best college degree for making money and now I want to make money. So, I'm trying to figure out what the best course of action going forward is to, you know, long-term raise our family income.

>> What's your degree in?

>> English literature. I love to read.

>> So, do you know what my you know what my bachelor degree is in?

>> Sorry. >> Do you know what my bachelor's degree is in? >> I do not. >> Humanities.

>> Oh, that's a great That was my second option. >> There you go. you went one step further than I did. Like your degree is more specific than m. I mean on the hierarchy, my degree was less than yours.

>> And so I would not blame your current situation on your degree. I would blame it on um I don't blame anything, but I would say choosing to do. >> Yeah. What are you choosing to do and how hard are you willing to work for it?

>> That's fair. I guess I don't have a clear direction of where to go next.

>> There you go. That's that's that's a more honest question. So, you got a degree. You've proven to some future employer you can work hard for four years and get a thing and great. And so,

the big question is, what do you want to do besides read books and write?

>> You know, it's a great question. If I really let myself dream, it sounds crazy. So, I mean, >> I'm a YouTuber, brother. It gets no crazier than what I'm doing.

Uh, I would love to be like a

an outdoor like adventure do an outdoor

adventure camp for young boys.

>> Okay. Why is that crazy?

>> I really care about I care about men's ministry. I spent five summers doing uh Catholic summer camp in Colorado.

>> Why in the world is that crazy?

>> I don't know where to get the money from to start. I guess >> you go you you take a job making less

than you think you're worth at working a camp this summer.

>> And there's openings at camps all over the country.

And while you're doing it, um me and Rachel, our mutual friend Michael Easter is here in the studio. Um and he has one

of the most successful substacks on the planet because he's an extraordinary writer and a great researcher and thinker. And so you go work at this camp and you open a Substack and you write about it all summer. >> You start to learn about you know, men specifically, but the struggles, all of that, and yeah, start making a start making a side gig out of it. >> All of this is how hard you want to work, >> right?

Exactly. I'm I'm willing pretty much right now. I'm, you know, driving for Amazon, got the Every Dollar app, and doing side hustles and married. We have a kid.

We're expecting a kid in September. >> That's awesome. So, go find a boy ranch to work at.

There's no there's no path forward without disruption. >> Yeah. And there may and there might be a season too, Devon. I'll just say as as a wife with when I had a baby once.

>> Oh, here we go. I'm just >> that that you know, there may be a season of like I'm going to go take an office job for a hot second, get our some stability under us. Then we get to make a move towards the thing that I want to do. Or in the summers, we do this and then we have to do something else over here, right? Like I mean, you guys are young. Did you just graduate? Are you guys 22, 23?

uh 25 and 24.

>> 25 and 24. Okay. So, there may be, you know, a season from a financial standpoint that you, you know, do

something you may not love, but at least hopefully it's in the realm at which, you know, you can either do something on the side that you're enjoying. Um, but

what are what are you good at? What would you say?

>> I'm a really gifted writer. Um,

>> yeah. Yeah. So maybe there a job within that, right?

>> Copy editing, ghost writing, um you know

what I mean? Like plugging in what you're good at too and not just your passion, but I think working towards what where those things can intersect could create a a great life >> or spec writing and and those jobs with AI are getting increasingly hard to make a living. But man, if you're good at Substack, I I pay money >> for only a few Substacks, but I do pay money for them because they're good and I value the what what I'm getting, right? So, >> yeah, >> but that's just rep after rep after rep after rep.

>> Yep.

friend. But I'm still getting shout out shout out his book. Find the work you're wired to do. And we still have copies.

>> Yeah. Stay on the line. We'll hook you up. >> Yep. So, Christian will pick up. Um, but yeah, take that assessment because that I mean I do think generating ideas is

really big and you may be in a season where again and I'm kind of I don't know I heard this message I was like you know it's kind of good of like work on what you're good at your talent >> and then that provides a great living for your for your family and if that crosses with your passion quote unquote like that's great too. Yeah. But um but this whole idea of just just chasing your passion and doing whatever you want, you know, may not be a season where you're able to support your family and that's okay.

But like find what you're good at and make some great money doing it. And then I do think your life I mean you were in just one small chapter of your life right now Devon and it will continue and the opportunities and doors. I mean you said this the other day on the show where you were what was it eight years ago?

>> My first graduate school class was at the age of 26. So, a year after his that was my first master's degree class, right? And so, yeah, you got a whole adventure ahead of you. But I do I do remember this. I do remember pacing around the house at 25 thinking I was failing everybody. >> And so, I I get that sense in his chest like I can't I'm not going to make it.

>> I'm not doing enough or Yeah. Yeah.

>> Um but man, I take action. And you said you you worked for five five summers um

with young people and you developed a passion. reach out to those contacts and see what's available or volunteer at your local church. Like there's so many opportunities that are going to take you a lot of time, a lot of energy, and that's hard with a newborn, but man, get after. >> And what's wild, too, is um we love Young Life in our house.

That's where Winston and I met. And but they have, you know, property site families that live on these camp properties. >> That's what I'm saying all year. And that's like where they live and that's their job is to take care.

>> I have buddies texting me all the time, hey, do you know anybody who wants to move to New Mexico or to southern Missouri and work on this camp? This is a fun adventure for you guys with a baby and like >> there's no rent.

Like I don't know, maybe it's something fun like that too. Devon, >> thanks for the call. All right, let's go to Holly in Milwaukee. Hi, Holly.

Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Um, so I am currently in the middle

of leaving my HR job to uh potentially go part-time. Um, and I'm struggling

with whether we made the right financial decision. >> Okay. Why did you choose to go part-time? >> Um, I was burnt out. Um, I was the head of HR um out in a company out in um the

Piwaukee area and um with three young kids um I have a five, three, and two-year-old. >> Oh, wow. Yeah. So, you want to be home more? Is that your hope?

>> Yeah. And actually, I've been in talks with the kids school about potentially doing two days a week there. So, I have summer off with the kids. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's great. Um well, are you guys able to survive financially on you working part-time and your husband working full-time?

>> I think so. Um, we ran through the numbers. Um, this is kind of one of the most irresponsible things I think I've ever done. Um, not having something for sure lined up before leaving a job. Um,

but, uh, >> are you guys able to take care of your necessities in May and June?

>> Yes. Yeah. So, we have, um, close to $40,000 in our savings right now.

>> Okay. >> Um, 28,000 of that is dedicated to our emergency fund. And I would say our monthly spending and and what we need and everything um with a little cushion is about $5,000 a month.

>> Okay. What does your husband bring in?

>> Um he it he's based on commission um but

roughly about 6,000 net.

>> Okay. So you guys can you guys can keep your head above water. You're not having to dip into the savings with just his.

Right. >> Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Holly, you're not overly irresponsible.

You're so that was so kind of you to like so like not kind. That was so heavy to say. You guys have $40,000. Say, >> do y'all have a lot of debt?

>> Um, we have a um $13,000 van loan.

>> Okay. >> Um that we're aggressively trying to pay off. Um and then we have 97,000 left on our house, which should be paid off before we're 40. So, >> yeah. Holly, I want you to change your narrative from I'm leaving this job to want w to I want to stay spend more time

with my really young kids.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Because like you're talking about this like you're failing like you're you're you you're making an affirmative choice. >> You're a hard driver, Holly. >> Yeah. You're going to a thing. That's amazing. That's awesome.

>> I I just I don't want to let my husband down. >> Oh, sister. You're not. But >> you're not.

Yeah. >> You're not. Yeah. So many working moms I know, there is this like a guilt factory.

Well, that and they and they carry that they have provided for the family financially and now when that's gone, they're like it's not even an identity thing. It's like I feel bad that I'm not contributing where you're good, Holly. Enjoy the summer with your children. You are fine.

You guys live on that 5,000. Don't go over. Go get a part-time job at the kids school. Pay off this van once you get a job.

You guys need to pay this off with the money you have saved. And ride into the sunset. You're doing great.

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Okay. So, I think a perk about working at Ramsey Solutions is we'll be sitting in the studio doing a show on the glass and we'll see guests walk in to do other shows cuz the Ramsey Network has multiple shows. um that have guests on and not always lined up for this show and we had a guest walk through >> and John and I were like, "Oh my gosh, is that who we think it is?" So, we just uh the whole world. >> He's supposed to be on with George Camel or he is going to be on uh George's show, but we grabbed him to do a segment here because John and I both love him so much.

Uh but Michael Easter is here. Hi, Michael. Welcome.

So, I was introduced to you because of your book, The Comfort Crisis, that I read and this was probably when did that come out? What year was that? >> 20. It's about 5 years ago now.

>> 5 years ago. Okay. So, I bet it was probably four years ago when I read it cuz it had been out for a while and I love to read and I kept seeing it float around all these lists. So, I'm reading The Comfort Crisis and we were on vacation. So, I was >> really famous. She was in Cabo.

>> I was I was I was by a pool, >> an infinity pool that was overlooking the ocean. >> There was a resort involved.

>> Yes. Overlooking the ocean. But the whole premise of the book, which I want to get into because I think it does tie into people sacrificing and getting out of debt and like what it does. But the whole thing is like we are too comfortable in our world today from like not only a physical standpoint but an emotional environmental all of it.

Like we have created such comfort around us. So we don't grow. You don't push yourself when you're comfortable, right? You have to be, you know, you know, not being comfort.

So I'm reading this book and I'm thinking about my friend John Deloney and I was like, John would love this book. So, I put the book out where I am and I just take a quick picture and I send it to John. I text it to him.

This is all this is straight up your alley." And >> and I was like, "A, I read it like a year ago. And B, just look at the photo

you just sent me." And it's like an infinity pool, the ocean >> and it says the comfort crisis, >> perfectly manicured toes, and the comfort crisis. So, >> basically like don't be comfortable. But your your book uh the comfort crisis and then scarcity brain your follow-up has burned through this company. It's become like a thing that we all talk about in all of our meetings all of the time because it was so impactful for all of us.

>> Yeah. So give us the premise real quick because I do want to tie this into the the financial side. But give us a premise of the comfort crisis for the audience. They kind of get this idea or Sure.

Yeah. >> Quick rundown is the world has become more comfortable over time in every way, right? We have to walk less. we are we're not as hungry anymore because we got food everywhere.

We've just engineered discomfort out of our lives, which is good in the grand scheme of time and space. It's nice to be comfortable, but at the same time, we've lost these things that keep us healthy, happy, and that teach us something about how to be a better human.

trying to save money, that is hard.

when you are on Amazon and you put that thing in your cart and you go to buy it's going to be so great and then you hear your voice in your head or Dave's

voice and you go oh I shouldn't buy this right not clicking by is really hard so I think that all growth happens through

doing things that are hard >> if something's going to improve your life it's going to be uncomfortable in the short term but the point is is that you get these long-term rewards by embracing that >> I love that >> and every business talks about how do we make a transaction less and less with less and less friction, right? I just went and bought lunch and now I just waved my phone over a box. And by the way, um based on a

Substack you wrote the other day, and we'll talk about that in a minute, >> I didn't even make eye contact with the guy. He was looking somewhere else. And so there we've extracted human interaction out of all these things. And so he he stuck this thing out. I waved my phone over it. We had a robotto-root

interaction, no personal connection, but it was all so frictionless and it it

didn't feel like a real exchange, but it actually took 11 bucks or whatever out of my account. That's real money. That's real sweat equity I put into that thing.

>> Yeah. And I will say the faster you can do something, the more likely you are to do it. So, this is why there's one-click buys on Amazon now. This is why companies are, especially online, like removing steps to make the actual purchase. So, we've really increased the speed of all these things that I think

can be poor decisions, but it's like you just make it. So, what happened?

>> Yeah. >> Or my first mortgage, I had to sit down with a lender and we went through a stack of papers. Now, it's you can get online and we'll approve you right now.

>> Sign. >> Um, yeah. So, from the purchasing consumer standpoint, it's taken out any level of discomfort. So you are more likely to spend and not save because the saving create, you know, pushes patience and delay gratification which you were just saying is so difficult.

So speak to the families because there's a lot of listeners that they're trying to get out of that consumer debt. They're deep in credit card debt, student loan debt, car debt. I mean, it's just all of this and they've gotten to a point where they're like, I'm so sick of this. I'm done.

I'm going to get out. And we teach that when you get out of debt, you have to sacrifice your lifestyle.

you're not going out to like you are limiting everything and throwing anything you can at that debt and it is so hard for people they call in and they'll say how do I stay motivated because this is so difficult so speak just some encouragement that this idea of sacrifice and what you're putting yourself through for a greater good to get to this point you know where you have autonomy over your money

you don't owe anyone anything like what that sacrifice is actually doing to the character of who they are and what what's happening inside of them >> yeah I'll tell you a story for a for an example and then I'll pull out big picture when I was a professor at NYU uh or at UNLV, I had a student who crazy in

debt, just like she's married, she had kids, so much debt, it was totally ruining their life, causing a lot of marital problems, causing problems with what they could do with their kids, what programs they could get them into. She started following Ramsay stuff. She's like, "It was the hardest thing we've ever done." But she got out on the other side of that and then she could put herself through college, >> which means she could earn a higher income. and she's like, >> "That was so hard in the meantime, but

now that we went through that, I look back on that and I go, that's one of the most rewarding things we've ever done >> for our kids because that taught them a lot for our marriage >> because it brought us together and also personal fulfillment. >> So to pull back when you look at what gives human beings fulfillment, >> it's never the easy thing.

>> It's the things that we had to struggle through. Good example. If I ask any

parent, "What's been the most rewarding thing in your life?" Like, "What's most important to you?" Most people are going to say their kids. >> Yeah. >> It is my kids. Full stop. And then you ask, "Well, is that always easy?" >> What's the most challenging thing? The kids. >> Yeah. What's the hardest thing?

>> Yes. That you've ever done. Yeah. >> Exactly. Now, you can apply that to any

situation, in life, >> you know, marriage, finances, whatever.

realize that that almost think of that as that hardship is like that is a signal that something important is happening that is then going to improve your life later. So you can actually get to a point where you feel that and you go, "Ah, something good is about to

happen." >> Takes a while to get that mindset shift.

Yeah. It's always going to be hard in the short term, but once you've gone through a few reps, I think you start to see that as something like, "Aha, >> here's the opportunity. Yes, it's going to suck, but I'm ready for it." >> Yeah. Let me let me for the listeners out here who are new to Michael Easter

>> and you know this you and I are personal friends off air but your voice has rang

through my mind so often the last 5 years that it has reframed how I teach marriage it's reframed how I help people who are struggling with their kids like trying to manage their kids and it all started from an idea you had or an

article you read about the 2% right and

that's based on the 2% of people at the airport who will use the stairs instead of the escalator. And at 2:00 a.m. when we're Rachel and I are on a live event somewhere and we're shleing through the it's like, "Take the stairs, Deloney." And I'm like, "I will." But here's where that has expanded my whole life. When my wife and I have a conflict, it's easy for me honestly to get some flowers, to

pretend that conflict didn't happen, and then to go about our regular routine.

And it has developed is given me a new language that is the tension is the doorway. If my wife and I have a discomfort, I'm gonna take the stairs.

Let's have this conversation. Let's get to the root of this thing so that we can get to where we want to go. And Michael, I got to tell you, it has transformed my marriage. It's transformed how I parent my kids. It's transformed everything.

>> The 2% real quickly. How did that how how did you come up with that? >> Honestly, it comes from a study. Yep.

Came from a study. And um that always just sat with me because I feel like it's a metaphor, right? It's 100% of people know that that taking the stairs is going to be better for their long-term health and wellbeing. Yet 98% of people go, "No, I'm just going to do this really easy thing. That's going to feel so much better." >> Um, but those 2% of people like that can

become a metaphor.

It sure has for me. And and I want everybody to know, um, Michael has a brand new podcast, a 2% podcast that I I personally subscribe to, and I pay money for his Substack. It's that good. Um, and I like to hit my friends up for free stuff.

I don't not for this one because it's worth every penny. The 2% um Substack by Michael Easter. Go check it out. >> Michael, thanks for being here and just the encouragement to the audience and be the 2% that the sacrifice at the end changes you in a good way.

So yeah, thanks for jumping in last minute. We appreciate it.

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>> dude. Uh, being around Michael Easter makes my life better. >> You like him? >> He's just a good human though.

>> Great human being. I'm glad he swung by >> for sure. So, I know. Thankful.

thankful who you've popped in. Well, you guys, we wish that we could get to every call on this show, but if you have a money question, we have an answer for you. You don't have to call in on the show. We love you too because it's always fun talking to you guys, but if you have a question, you can head over to Ask Ramsay.

So, this is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsay principles. So, AI, you put all the stuff in it of what you want to spit out.

those shows over the past couple of years, transcripts from live events and books and articles, like anything and everything Ramsay is in this. And it's crazy how accurate it is and how wild. I know people have like a lovehate relationship with AI, but it is crazy how quickly it starts to like learn you and know you and like it is wild.

>> Yeah. Like, please be nice to me. Um, no, but it really is amazing. So, check out Ask Ramsey. Again, you can ask your question. You go to ramsolutions.com and you'll see Ask Ramsey there on the website or if you are listening on podcast or YouTube, you can click the link in the description. All right, let's head to Lindsay who is in Charleston. Hi Lindsay, welcome to the show. >> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> So, I'm calling today because I recently got married in December and my husband has actually offered to pay off my student loans. >> Um, and my question is, should I let my husband pay my student loans off?

>> Absolutely not. I'm just kidding.

>> Yes. >> Well, let's let's talk bigger picture here. What's What's causing you to hesitate? Do are you still seeing this as his money, your debts, and you guys haven't really combined money? Not even tactically, but even emotionally, like this is our household, and our household has this amount of debt. Our household brings in this income. Our household has this much savings. As a household, how do we tackle our money? It's still more pretty divided emotionally for you, right?

>> Yeah, a little bit. So, I owe about $28,000 left. And I think my hesitancy

kind of comes in because I don't find that it's his responsibility to pay on my debt. This is the only debt that we have um I guess together, but it's really I look at it more like it's my debt because I was the one that chose to go to college to get two degrees. Yes.

>> And so I kind of am like is this really his responsibility if I've been the one paying it all these years? >> So you have 28,000 in debt. How much does he have say have saved?

Um, so he has I mean we have a net worth

of 700,000 and um he >> How much is liquid? Like how much how much cash do you guys have?

>> Um I'm actually not entirely sure how much exact cash we have.

>> Okay. >> So let me ask you a weird question. >> And how do you Well, how do you know he can pay it off if you don't know how much money you guys have? Did he just say I'll pay it off for you?

Um, well, I I do have like an understanding of how much he makes and his net worth, but um, money isn't really, I guess, an issue in that regard. He can definitely pay it off and there's there's no problem. It's more of like I just don't know if he if I should allow him to do that if I feel like it's my responsibility. All right, let's say that he had when he was a kid, um, he

fell off a slide and hurt his knee

and then next year he's playing pickup basketball and his knee blows out all the way. Are you going to look at him and say, "Well, you brought that bum knee into our marriage, so that's yours." >> No. >> No. So, when you get married,

both of you take on all of each other.

And so it's y'all's combined income.

It's y'all's debt. It's y'all's money.

And the like the research bears this

out. Not it's not just Ramsay running our mouths. Like the psychological and economic research says that couples that share a single checking account, not even a checking account, and you each have your own on the side. Um because that was part of the test. A single checking account forces y'all to say, "Who are we? Who are we going to be? Who do we want to be? and how much do we have? And so just that one act of

sharing a check-in account forces couples to come to the table and talk about values, talk about dreams, talk about visions, and then talk about how to get those dreams and values and visions out in the real world. And it just is a shape shifter for couples. And so this is not your debt anymore. This

is y'all's debt. And it's not his money anymore. It's y'all's money now. And so sitting down and having a bigger conversation about who are we going to be with our money um is where is I mean

that should have been your your premarital counseling should have covered that but you're already married so that's the next immediate step you'll need to take.

>> Okay that makes sense. Yeah, and Lindsay, we know we have found the fastest way to build wealth,

the fastest way from point A to point B is to be completely debtree, have an

emergency fund that you can tap into when things happen, be investing into

retirement and other things, have a paidoff home, and you just start living

your life. And when you have kids, you invest for their college, all of that.

But, but then no debt and investing

aspect. to no debt. I mean, even like no mortgage, like everything is paid off, right, to the ultimate. That's our baby steps. That's our baby steps six, okay?

Is paid off house. So that's part of the Ramsay plan. But we find people that can build that build wealth quickly with

their net worth, they're all in. And so

if you guys together say, "Hey, we want part of our legacy to build wealth, not just for us and just to be rich, right?

to when we have a family to be able to change our family tree to be able to bless others and be generous like we want to use money as a tool in that way and we're going to work towards uh you know being good managers of that. The fastest way is to get out of debt. And if that's our goal as a as a household, again, as a couple, okay, fastest way to get out of debt. Let's get out of debt like tomorrow because you can.

So, check it off, right?

And it's not you um taking advantage of

or all that. And I hear you saying like, I just want to take ownership of what I've decided. But I think John just Yeah. painted a really great picture that when you marry, I mean, it's it's all of you, right? and we're in this now together. >> Can I ask you this? Is this um and the way I'm going to ask it's going to sound mean and I'm not meaning it to be mean.

Okay, same team, right?

>> Are we good? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Is it your ego that doesn't want him to pick this up for you or is he not very

forthcoming with finances and that's kind of his domain and you feel small talking about money around him?

>> No, he is very open about like how much

he brings in and everything. Um, I think it's more of me. It's like a personal thing. Okay. >> Um, that I'm just like I don't know. I guess I look at it a little differently of like, you know, I brought on this debt well before I even met him. I went to school, whatever. And so I'm like, is this like should he be held responsible?

But I do understand >> he married all of you, >> right? >> For better or worse.

>> And you can tell him like, uh, I have some guilt doing this. You know, talk through it. >> Or tell them, I've been holding back a part of myself from you. >> Yeah. And I've been trying to hide this part that I'm embarrassed about or ashamed about, whatever. And we're married. I'm going to put all of me on the table here.

>> Yeah. >> And do y'all share a single checking account?

>> No, we don't.

>> You should.

>> Yeah. I think this could be a good meeting of the minds tonight, right? I mean, sit down together genuinely and just say, "Hey, >> what do we want this part of our marriage to be?" Because you'll have those conversations. What do we want this part of our marriage with holidays to look like with family and where we split time?

What do we want, you know, our marriage to look like when we want to go on a vacation with just the girls or just the like I mean, you'll have these conversations in marriage. How do we want our marriage to be? And money is part of that. And the quicker you guys can get on the same page, Lindsay, honestly, um it it's going to it's going to create a level of unity with you all that is that's so beautiful.

And the earlier you are in this marriage and to create a great pattern starting now is really big.

couples are one. You share everything.

You're together. You are transparent.

You talk about big decisions when it comes to money. You're on the same team.

You guys are on the same team running a household. And when you look at it that way, not only do you build wealth faster, but there's a better relational sense. Um, >> and I'll I'll never understand couples who share DNA and make humans, but won't share their their income. Like, that's always bizarre world to me. It's like we can we can create humans together, but this is my money and that's your money.

Like that's just Bizaro world. Put it all on the table. >> Do you think he would? Well, would do you want that, Lindsay? Would you want that level of of unity and working together or are you kind of like, >> eh? >> I think I'm open to it for sure.

>> How do you think he would respond to it?

>> I think he is more He's definitely the one that's all for it. I'm more of the hesitant one. >> Okay. >> I'm just Yeah, it's it's an ego thing. I need to get over it. >> Yeah. No, I mean, you don't have to don't just get over it. Push through and understand that about yourself and bring him to the table with it. And it's a beautiful learning. And we uh Yeah.

Yeah. You guys are going to do great.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz here with Dr. John Deloney and we are answer your questions at8825-55225.

All right, let's go to Orlando and we have Rick on the line. Hi Rick, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Well, I have a question because I did the calculations for um the net worth

and it turns out that I have more than a million dollars of net worth. However, >> congratulations. >> Yeah. However, um really all of that net

worth is is in my home, my primary home.

>> And so, uh last year I got into some um

no, I didn't get into, but uh you know, my business went south. Business went south. It wasn't making money. I was keeping it afloat by with some um personally guaranteed loans and it just wasn't making any money. So I decided to

close it down and move to another town

where I got a um salary job in the same

in the same uh industry. So

um when I left my home, I rented it. I rented it out and the current rent there

uh pays for the mortgage of the home plus plus it pays for the rent of the new home in my new town right now and

some expenses of of the original home.

So, it's being rented out, but I also have a large amount of debt and the debt I can't keep up with the debt. It's um I can't make really all the monthly payments each month. So, uh, my question

is, should I sell my primary home where all my equity is in order to pay off the

debt to in order to pay off all the debt and then I'll have some proceeds left over? >> Mhm. >> Uh, for possibly a new home.

>> My answer is a little bit different because you're currently not living in that home. You're living somewhere else.

Are you going to be going back to that primary home at any point and sell because you own two two homes. Is that what you're saying?

And I own one home and I'm renting in the same city where where where I moved to. >> Yeah. Will you be living where you are now? Probably for the foreseeable future. >> Yes, for the foreseeable future.

>> So regardless of debt or not, I would say don't be a longdistance landlord. So I would be I would I would sell your primary home anyways and depending on your financial situation, take the proceeds and buy something in the new city um or use it for a down payment or what that looks like and then go about your way. But your, you know, your situation's a little different because I would still sell the home, but how you use the proceeds of the home now may not be for a down payment and maybe to clear up this consumer debt.

>> Okay. The the loans in the debt total is 300,000.

>> 300,000. And was that business debt? Is that what you said? You got you you took out the loans for your business that you closed?

>> Yeah, but I also had some back uh IRS tax debt. I have a 105 105 tax debt to

the IRS which represents about four years but I'm in a payment plan for that. It's not like I'm delaying or anything. I'm in a payment plan and paying it monthly >> and then there's 150 154k in in personal

loans for the business and credit cards because credit cards too. So

>> Gotcha. And the credit cards is what probably 50 grand.

>> Yeah. At least. >> Okay. So that's the 300. That's how it's broken up. How much equity on this house do you have? >> The three the 300 also includes uh two

car loans and two car leases.

>> Four cars. All right. Well, who's driving all these cars?

>> Myself, my wife, my two children who are now uh one's finished one. They're both in college. >> Okay. Um how much car debt is there?

>> 57K. >> Okay. Will you break that? Which per which car?

No, that's uh the four cars combined together. It's two loans.

>> Okay. >> Of purchased cars and two leases.

>> Okay. Um All right. And how much equity

is in the home?

>> Well, the home is estimated at a value of 1.6 million, but um I think it may go

higher than that. Maybe I hope close to 2 million. >> The mortgage balance on it is 230.

>> Okay. Why do you think it's going to go for 2 million? because the comps in the area, the how houses are going, >> the comps in the area that I've seen right now are about 1.6, but the the features inside the house, it's uh it's newly remodeled recently in in the past few years. And >> it's high-end upgrades of uh you know, all the fixtures inside. >> Okay. Okay. >> Bathrooms, bathrooms, kitchens, floors.

>> We'll say worst case scenario 1.7. Okay.

Just for the sake. Um Okay. All right.

And so, so yeah, I mean, so yeah, you hopefully you would clear, golly, you know,

1.4ish, 1.3 possibly. Um, so if you did clear

out the debt, you'd have a million dollars.

What could a million dollars buy real estate wise where you are now?

Uh, >> I've been looking in pretty nice home.

Very nice. >> Okay. How much do you have in retirement and investments?

Okay. In retirement myself, my my 401k is uh 10,000 and I have some investments. I have about um

60,000 in in in the uh stock market and

um I'm using it for you know trading

stock options on on on and off. Mostly my wife is doing that.

>> Okay. Does she have any retirement?

>> Uh she had uh 30,000. No, not right now.

Nothing in 401k. It's all in the stock market. >> Okay. But she has an additional 30 invested somewhere. Okay.

>> Yes. >> And how old are you guys?

>> I'm 62. >> 62. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Um I mean would I I mean I would not make the mistake which is kind of what you made with the primary home that like and you said that opening this call that so much of your net worth is tied up in real estate which is not going to be great. Right. I mean, having a paid for house in retirement is awesome, but if you don't have any money to eat with, then it kind of negates the purpose.

>> Okay. Well, >> from paying it off. >> Yeah. But you don't have any money, brother. You'll be 68 years old with $10,000 in retirement and a $2 million house, >> right? >> Yep. So, I would um I would diversify a lot more than you have, Rick. So, I would sell it regardless again because you guys aren't living there anymore.

Um, I would see this as a gift that you that you all have done so well paying down on the home and it's gone up in value, which is amazing.

>> Um, and I would use it to clear my debt and I would make a contract with myself

and my wife and my family that we do not go into debt anymore. We don't play that game. So, we're done with debt. And then I would look and I would probably sit down with a financial adviser and just say, "Hey, when we run out the numbers and when we want to retire, how much how much would we need?

What what does this look like right now?" Cuz I mean, if you got a million bucks sitting in the floor, I would not go spend it on a million. Now that I know your retirement situation, I wouldn't go buy a million dollar house, >> brother. I would buy a $350,000 condo and put 650 in retirement. That's what I would do.

>> Mhm. >> Like, >> uh Uh-huh.

>> That was one of my questions I was going to ask you also >> about what to do with the proceeds.

>> Yep. So, the goal would be to have enough in retirement that you guys feel good with. And granted, you're still going to be working some, so you'll still be contributing, but also have paid for real estate. Can we get can we get that both done with this million dollars? Because that that's lifechanging right now. >> Can we get a small house for 400,000, get it completely paid off, and you can get a nice small house for$400,000?

We're going to get paid off, be all done, put 600 grand in the market.

>> But what this does, Rick, is it shifts

your expectation of lifestyle. You're leaving a 1.6 six $2 million home >> that >> with two nice cars, two lease cars, and you're choosing a more simple lifestyle for peace and the ability to retire with dignity. So, screw what everyone else thinks. You know what I mean?

Like from the looks of things. >> Go to ramiesolutions.com and check out our smart vesters in your area and they'll help you with the investment side of what to do with that extra money after you sell your house. >> Yeah. But there's going to be a level of humility that it's going to take to do this, Rick.

Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories.

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>> All right, the today's question comes from Maggie in m i s i si pi.

I am a 50-year-old single woman earning $53,000 a year. I have $25,000 in credit

card debt, car debt, and a personal loan from my father. I realize now I was very irresponsible and I've shredded the cards. I have my $1,000 emergency fund and I want to tackle the debts, but after all my bills are paid, I have 150 bucks a week left to eat and pay for

gas. The minimum monthly debt payments are more than that amount. Should I pay

the bills or buy food to be able to eat?

>> Oh, Maggie. Um, yep. So, a couple of

things. So, you always will want to eat first. So, when you're in a dire financial situation where this is literally paycheck to paycheck before the creditors are paid, before the credit cards are paid, you pay food,

shelter, so your rent or mortgage, utilities, and transportation, making sure you have gas in your car, and all that is good. So that's what we call your four walls because without that then you start putting the priority of your own self and survival right above

Mastercard. So um you yes you need to make a list Maggie and list out everything and see before after food, shelter, utilities, transportation. Then what is left is where the minimum payments come in and where what the magic is going to be for you in this is making $53,000 a year is going to be

extra work because income at that point is your problem. And so it will be working weekends and nights and it's not going to be fun. But if you can bring in an extra two to three thousand, whether it's waiting tables, you know, bartending, I don't I don't know what it is, dog sitting, I don't know what that looks like, but I would make it a goal.

Um, which means, yeah, you're going to be working 60, 70 hours a week, >> 80 hours a week.

but only for a short period of time. Cuz if you think about this and if you can do it and you can get three grand, you know, a month to be able to throw at this debt, I mean, in in eight 8 n months, you're done. You're completely done. Then you get to quit everything and go back and live on your salary because when you don't have payments, you actually have margin at that point.

So, it's kind of this like season of sacrifice that is is what I see. That's

that's how that's the path I see out for her. >> And the way I've had to navigate these tough seasons of my life is to make a commitment. In her case, she's 50. It's a it's I'm pretty dramatic, as you know, Rachel. Um, but I like some sort of

commitment ceremony. If I had to do it again today, I'd probably write a letter, but some sort of commitment to 52-year-old me. I'm going to do this stuff right now for future me. And for

whatever reason, when I'm doing it for somebody else, it makes it easier than doing it for myself sometimes. And so, I'm going to work like crazy. I'm going to not do stuff whatever in service to 52-year-old me. And it might be writing a letter to 52-year-old you talking about the sacrifices you made at 50 where you would work full your full-time job. You would eat a ham sandwich that you made or peanut butter and jelly sandwich on the way to stocking shelves at a grocery store until 11:00 at night.

Get up the next morning, go again. And you're just going to know for nine months I'm going to be really really tired, but I'm going to knock this thing out. >> Yep. Hope that helps, Maggie. But yeah, I think a tough situation. Yeah, prioritizing is really big when it when everything is that um condensed moneywise with your expenses. So priority remember food, shelter, utilities, transportation. All right, let's go to Rebecca and she's in Portland, Oregon. Hi Rebecca, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, my husband and I have been working on the baby steps. We're on baby steps, too. We had almost all of our debt paid

off except the house. Um, we had $2,500

left on our truck. And then our paidoff car needed work that cost more than the car was worth. So, we and we my husband

commutes 40 minutes daily to and from work. And so, we needed a commuter car.

And so, um, with 6,800 in savings, we

spent $5,500 on a car that immediately

needed $2,800 of work, um, because of a

tire problem caused by the dealership.

Um, and so, >> um, now we financed the work through the shop. It was 0% interest for 24 months.

So, I just we decided to do that instead of put it on one of our credit cards that are paid off. Um, and so now we have $5,300 in debt. My grandmother set

up a stock account for me when I was a

baby. Uh, it's grown to about 38,000.

Um, and so I'm just curious, would you

guys recommend cashing it all out, taking out what we need for the debt, um, letting it sit until retirement or what what I should do? We also have uh my husband has two shoulder surgeries coming up in the next year and um we do have an HSA with about 4,000 in it but that's not going to cover the surgeries fully but we do get financial aid through the hospital as well. We're kind of like a lower income >> okay household. So >> um sorry how much debt did you say the dealership was?

>> through the 2,800 through the repair shop. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. >> And then you still have uh did you say 25,000?

>> 2500.

Okay, perfect. >> Did you get your $5,500 car? Did you have it inspected?

>> Uh well, yeah, that's what we took it in initially for. Um, and yeah, I mean, we

had already purchased it by the time that um we had the tire problem.

>> Ah, so usually the inspection comes before the purchase, right?

>> Yes. Yeah, we Yeah, we've had good luck

with cars and we're hoping we would have the same luck and we didn't.

>> Yeah. No, that's okay. So, you guys have $5,300 total of debt and you have 38,000 in the stock. What kind of stock is it?

It's just individual stocks. It's like Disney, Home Depot, that type of thing.

>> Okay. Is it in like a mutual fund or it's a ton or it's like 10 individual stocks? >> It's individual shares. Yeah. Gotcha.

>> Um Okay. Well, the short answer is yes.

I would cash those out to pay this off.

Um >> Okay. >> And yeah, you'll probably be paying depending on how it was all looped to you from your grandmother if she I guess she had it in your name.

Yeah, she moved it to my name when I was 18. >> Okay, gotcha. Um, so yeah, there may be some taxes implications in that, but just, you know, be aware of that, but I would, yeah, use some of that. And then I honestly would not stay in single

stocks like that. I probably would end up cashing everything out and just moving it to an index fund. Um, yeah, >> like an S&P 500 or something. You can open up a brokerage account and just do it through that. >> And you can do that on your own if you wanted through Fidelity or Vanguard. you know, there's some easy companies that make it pretty easy. Um, just because I don't like >> the single stock mentality anyways. So,

that's probably what I would do. And then >> when you have that Yeah. to be able to take some of that to pay off the 5,300 and then you guys prepping for which I'm thankful you know about the medical ahead of time. So, with everything you said you guys have the HSA 4,000 and then you have some covered, >> how much out of pocket will you have to pay? Uh I'm not sure yet. Um we haven't

gotten an estimate from the hospital yet. But we do know that he needs both.

>> Okay. Yep. So uh do you have any idea?

Have they given you any range?

>> No. >> No. Okay. So I would find that out because it's going to help you guys to plan and to know how much you guys need to set aside per month. How much are you guys making a year?

>> Uh we make about 68,000 a year. Uh that was last year. I recently just um got my

certification um for my job and um we're

kind of like so I'm and I'm also up for a promotion so we're kind of looking for additional ways to earn and um there

should be a couple of good raises coming

up soon. >> I'll tell you my one concern about doing this is you guys have been working hard to get out of debt and >> I know you felt squeezed but you haven't fully metabolized. We do not go into debt, right?

>> Yeah. >> And so my fear is y'all going to cash this out and it's going to kind of become a just a kind of a just in case account. And so y'all are going to have to make a firm commitment that if we do cash this stock out and we pay this debt off, we're never going into debt again.

And this is not going to become just kind of a slush fund.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles. we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help.

It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go

to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

If you're working the baby steps, the fastest and best way to do it is by using Every Dollar. So, this is more than just a budgeting app. It is the plan that is built right in. So, you can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation. It's going to help you free up more money and work the plan faster.

I mean, it's like having one of us walk with you every single day and showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. So, start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's head over to Jessica and she's in Savannah,

Georgia. Hi, Jessica. Welcome to the show. >> Hi guys, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> So, I um am coming into a little bit of a bonus here. My husband and I are both military and I am just wondering what your guys' recommendations are for where I should put that towards. Um, so we both have a car loan and then we have our house loan. Um, and I'm just wondering if we should put it into that and pay those things off and then where we should put the extra money after those are paid off. >> Okay, great. How much is the bonus going to be?

>> So, the bonus after taxes is probably going to be about um $30,000. Okay. And

then I'll probably have another $15,000 bonus towards October.

>> Oh, nice. >> Are these military bonuses?

>> Yeah, but it's special. Don't tell anyone. >> I won't. I hope you get five of them.

>> I hope you get I hope you y'all get 50 of them. It's a madness out there.

>> Thank you. >> Just keep the bonuses rolling. It's my tax dollars. Keep them rolling. >> Keep them going.

>> Absolutely. >> Um Jessica, how much is the How much are the cars or how much debt do you guys have on them? So, my car is about 20,000

and then his is about 25,000.

>> Okay. How much do y'all make a year?

>> Uh, a little over 200,000. Probably like

210ish. >> Okay. >> Can I make a guess?

>> Yes. >> Is either one of these cars either a Jeep of some sort or a Dodge Charger?

>> Oh, absolutely not.

>> Yeah. Right, dude. Bucking the trends.

>> Bucking the trend. >> Military thing. I all my military buddies, all of them either have a Charger or or a Mustang of some sort or a a Jeep product of some sort. >> You know, I do I do have to embarrassingly admit that my husband does have a Tacoma, which is uh if you know, very common as well. >> Hey, you know what though? It's a Toyota product. It will drive till the end of time. I support that. >> We We love a Toyota truck around here.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> For sure. Okay. Um, so the 30,000 would

take care of obviously the 20,000 and

take the other car loan down to 15.

>> Mhm. >> And then you said you're going to be getting 15 in October. I would love for you guys to start. Yeah. So, all that to say, yes, I would throw the bonus at the cars. You'll have $15,000 left on the

truck or whichever car that is. Um, and

I and Yeah. And I would still be working to pay that off and then the money you get in October hopefully that car will

be you know you'll owe I don't know

7,000 8,000 on it right if you throw some money at it. >> I guess I should say I should also say we do have about like I just you know we were talking about money last night and I was like oh my god we got to find out where we should put this but we do have about $50,000 in cash right now too.

>> Oh >> good grief. Lead with that next time.

Jessica Jesus >> in the lead. Jessica 50 grand.

>> I'm so sorry. I just like I think it's because we're we're young enough where I just feel like I don't know exactly where I should put the money into. Like do I pay off the house that much?

Although we might move in, you know, a couple two years or so. Um, you know, do I put it into like a TSP? What do we do?

But we're already contributing like 27%

and I think he's at like 25% going into TSP. >> Okay, let me help you just >> I feel like we just accumulate money and don't know where to put it. >> Yep. No. No. And that's common. Okay, so the Ramsay baby steps when you walk through them, baby step one is a $1,000 emergency fund check. Baby step two is

get completely out of debt. All your consumer debt, which means you're going to be selling stuff, working extra, sacrificing any money you have saved,

Jessica, anything that's out there, you throw at your consumer debt to get out of baby step two. And so you guys are at that step, which means you can be done tonight. You can pay both cars off tonight. So, you're done >> for sure.

>> Yeah. And you'll have $5,000 left of that 50,000. And then when your $30,000 hits that bonus, you're going to have $35,000. So, then you get to move on to baby step three, which is a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses.

So, you guys are in pretty, you know, stable jobs. Uh, any kids?

guys have kids? >> No kids. >> No kids. Okay. How much would it take to run your household per month, would you say? How much money do you guys need >> with no car payments?

6,000. >> 6,000. Okay. So, I I mean I probably would put you guys at a three month. We say three to six months, but you guys don't have kids, stable job. So, if you wanted to do a three month, you know, you could, which would mean you would need >> Okay. >> 18,000. Okay.

>> Um so, when you Yeah. When you look at all of that, then what's left? Then we need to decide, okay, we have some money left. What do we want to do with that? So the question is, yeah, do you throw it at the house? Baby step four is 15% of your income into retirement. So I actually would lower some of your what you guys are putting away down to 15% and throw the rest at the house.

>> Okay. >> Um and as you pay it off, it's okay because even if you guys sell it and move that you're building an equity at that point as you're paying it down. So you're not losing that money, right? You're just putting it into an asset. um

and and paying it down. Do you guys think you really will move though in the next two years?

>> Yes, >> you will. Okay. So, there I mean you could keep it in like an index fund or something right now. Um or even just a high yield savings account because I am thinking when you guys move if you had some money saved for a down payment and contingent upon the sale of your house that you have now. Sure.

>> Would work as well. Um >> Yep. So that that's probably what I would do honestly is I would put the remainder I would have two two separate high yield savings.

maybe buy something. But the military families, I know if you guys are jumping, if you're jumping around, you're probably going to want to rent somewhere. It's a good point.

>> Sure. Sure. I think the other thing is that, like I said, every couple of months we just all of a sudden feel like we have so much money, so we pay some in the house, some in the cars, and whatever. Not. So, if the cars are paid off, and then all of a sudden we have like another $1,000 a month that we're not spending. Yeah. What would you suggest putting that into like how much do you really put into your house all up front?

Well, if if if it was me, I when I

bought my house, I hope I don't move for 10 years. And so, I'm going to put I'm going to be more aggressive paying it off. >> Like, my friends in the military, they get moved every two to three years. Um, one of two things happens. They either barely break even because there hasn't been enough time for the house to appreciate and they still got to pay realer fees to exit or and you know you've got friends like this >> they have this trailing mortgage in like

three or four different states and they're trying to rent them out to other military families and it just becomes a nightmare right and so for you since you know you're going to be moving in two years I would I wouldn't this is just the Delhonies I wouldn't buy a house until I knew I'm going to be somewhere 5 to 10 years >> I would agree with that just >> otherwise I would rent and I would rent a nice place cuz y'all are doing really well and I would put all that cash in a high yield savings account for the day we can walk in and pay cash for the house we're going to live in for 5 or 10 years >> for sure.

Yeah. When do you think because the difference on and I'm with John I'd be renting. So any money you get from equity I would put into a high yield savings account.

investing which means like putting it like an index fund or something versus

high yield savings is about that four to five year mark. So, if you're not going to be buying anything because you guys are going to be moving around and renting for if you're not going to be buying anything for the next 5 years, I almost would just open up an index fund and start throwing cash in there >> and because that you're going to get great returns on that and you're going to be able to write out the market because you don't need it for 5 years or more. Um, honestly, that's probably what I would do.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, I appreciate that information so much. The index fund is different than the like Vanguard, Fidelity, S&P 500s, correct?

>> No. All in there. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

So, just look into that. Yes. Yeah. You may open up like a brokerage account and inside of that put um an index fund.

>> Here's the main thing we're doing differently than what y'all are doing. You all get a big check and y'all try to spread it out all over the place. We want you to knock things out one at a time so you actually make progress.

All

right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsay trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseyolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseyolutions.com/.

Our scripture of the day comes from 2 Corinthians 9:8. And God is able to

bless you abundantly. So that in all things, at all times, having all that

you need, you will abound in every good work. Dolly Parton said, "Love her. A

peacock that rests on his tail feathers is just another turkey." Did you see she came out with a video? >> No. >> Are you a big Dolly van? she had to cancel Vegas and that she's having some

health stuff, but her doctors, you know, she's she's going to be great and she's going to be looking younger than ever. I mean, she's just hilarious. I love, >> you know, over here on 12 South, like right in the middle of >> like where all these shops and restaurants are. My kids and I have walked by there a thousand time. That's her place. I had no idea.

>> There. And she lives in She has >> That's where she stores her bus and all.

>> Okay. Yeah. Cuz her house, y'all, she she lives like a mile from me.

>> Wow. And she's been there for since like the '9s. >> Forever. >> We love Dolly. >> She's the best. >> She is. She's a gem.

>> She's the best. >> She's on my bucket list to meet. I want to meet her. >> I just want her to be president.

>> Oh, she should be president. Dolly. I'm going to write her in next election. >> She's probably too young, but

>> All right, we're going to go to the phones and we have Richard in Tennessee up next. Hi, Richard. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, thanks for having me. Absolutely, Tom. >> Absolutely. How can we help? >> What's up, man?

>> Uh, so I've recently became disabled and I'm not able to provide like I've been doing for my family >> and I'm going to be getting a pretty large settlement about $75,000 minimum. I'm just wondering what can I do to turn that into some type of profit.

>> What happened, brother?

>> I was involved in a car accident uh that left me paralyzed. Um Oh my gosh. I have a head injury and I have seizures pretty bad from it now. Yeah, >> I was a truck driver before that. So, >> okay. >> Obviously, I'm not allowed to drive, so can't do that anymore. >> Y >> um 75 seems awfully low for

>> for for an injury that takes permanently takes away your line of work.

>> Yeah, that's uh the lawyer really feels that he's going to get a lot more. Yeah, >> it's just he said, "We're going to cover your medical bills at least." And those are all paid. So now I know for a fact I'm going to get at least 75,000. What's he saying?

He said you may we may be getting more. What does that mean? Like if he had a ballpark, what was he I know you're probably being conservative with the 75, but >> what could it be? >> I'm trying to be conservative with it, but I mean he said that he's pushing them and he's trying to push closer to 200,000.

>> Yeah, I I I for whatever it's worth, man, because this injury takes away your livelihood, which is truck driving.

But that's not why you're calling. So, um, but man, I hate this for you and for you and your family. >> I'm sorry. Um, Richard, are you able to do any level of other work or will you be out of the workforce for the foreseeable future?

>> Right now, it's kind of too early to tell. Okay. >> Um, but doctors not really saying anything positive or negative. So, I think they're kind of questioning it, too.

>> Okay. >> Is it is it classified as a TBI, traumatic brain injury? >> Yeah, it is. >> Okay.

>> Yeah. Sorry. >> The path back from those is s so difficult to navigate, right? Because >> Yeah.

I'm glad the doctors are just keeping it neutral because nobody knows, right? >> Yeah. Does your wife work? >> Yeah.

>> Uh, no, she doesn't.

>> Okay. Are you um Do you guys have kids?

>> We have one kid. >> You have one? Okay. How old?

>> She is five. >> She's five. Okay. Um and so she'll

probably be in school next year. I'm assuming kindergarten.

>> Yeah. >> Starting the fall. Okay. Cuz I'm just trying to think how to make this money

work for you guys, but also that it doesn't just disappear in expenses when

there could be pairing with some level of work or income coming in. Do you know what I mean? >> Well, there's two I want to say this.

There's two um one of my oldest, closest friends on the planet is a longtime TBI

survivor. And there is a program I I

know it's a federal program. I think it's a federal program and possibly a state program too where she might actually receive compensation for your care.

>> And so I would look at that and I would also look at your social security benefits, SSI benefits.

>> Okay. Yeah. Uh I did get I'm on SSDI.

>> Okay. And what does that pay bring in every month? >> Uh 1678 a month.

>> Okay. Yeah. It's not it's not going to keep food on your table, but it's something. But check in. have her look into the program that she can qualify as

um basically she'll get paid as a full-time caretaker of you and that's a

pretty remarkable program as well. It's not it's not going to make anybody rich, but it will keep your house over your head. >> Yeah. How are you guys um paying for

things now, your bills and everything?

>> So, right now we're on just full government assistance pretty much.

>> Okay. >> So, do you guys have any housing?

>> Uh we have 8,000 in debt.

>> Okay. What is that? What kind of debt?

>> Uh, that's from a car that I had to turn back in after my accident. >> Oh jeez. >> They didn't just take it.

>> Uh, they were kind of like threatening and I just said, you know, there's really nothing we can do, so just come get it. I got a voluntary repo on my credit report.

>> Shoot. Okay. Um,

so for now that how when will you get the settlement? Do you know?

>> Uh, end of this year.

>> Okay. Okay. So, you guys have the rest of this calendar year to survive?

>> Yeah, we do. >> Okay. And government assistance, what's coming in a month with that?

>> Uh, just the 1678 and then uh the health

insurance is locally covered now and

then the food stamps for the kid.

>> Oh, man. >> So, after we pay all of our bills, we're left with about 300. And that's after putting some in savings. How much are you putting in savings?

>> About 15%.

>> Which comes out of the

>> of the 1,600.

>> Okay. So, it's like 200 bucks or something? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And when you say you have $300 left, is that after food, rent is paid,

everything? >> Everything. >> Okay. Okay. And you're putting some in.

So, you you could put $500 a month in savings right now is kind of what you're looking at if 300 is your margin.

Yeah, we could. >> Okay. Um, you know what I mean,

honestly, Richard, I would probably I would I would stick to that regimen as much as you can until you get this payment. And I'm praying by the end of the year, you'll have some answers with your health. Um, possibly freeing up

your wife to a degree to be able to go and and provide and work if you can't.

Um cuz the goal would be to be bringing in some level of income and that this settlement is put aside and that you

guys can use it if you need to on a big purchase like if you have to replace a car, but that it's invested and it is making money. So in that case, yes, I

would put that settlement. Um I would I

would take some out and put an emergency fund to the side in a high yield savings account.

And then beyond that, um, again, trying not to live off of this because the goal would be to invest it and just let it

let it grow. Um, and so you can do that

just like in an index fund or something, but between now and the end of the year,

my goal would be to be putting some money in savings and start building that up because if you guys can do that, that's that's pretty remarkable. I mean, if you're able to put, you know, 500

bucks away, I mean, you'll have three $4,000 by the end of the year, which is >> Yeah. Fantastic. >> You are living lean for sure. And I hope that it's 10x your settlement than what

you think it's going to be. >> For sure. Which I feel like it

>> should should be. >> Yeah. Ask a question to your attorney about future earnings. >> Yep. And just Yeah. Ask about that. But yeah, when you're in a position, which I feel like we've had a couple of um not just like this call, but the idea that it's like it is just it is touch and go monthtomonth on bills and cash flow.

Remember you guys, food, shelter, utilities, transportation before even debt is paid. Take care of that. And then beyond that, make a list of priorities of things that you you have to have, right? And if you have kids, young kids, but you're both working, daycare is going to be right there close to that needs line, insurance, like there are some things that have to be covered. Um, but the idea is that you you have a plan and it's written out and

you're able to follow it because that logic side is so important when emotions and the scariness of reality can wash over you and you can make bad decisions if you if you focus on that.

>> Yeah. And you're there's not a way to take $75,000 and turn it into

like invest off of it and make that into a livable income per year forever. Um the best thing you can do is to take that money and like Rachel said, get an emergency fund, but put the rest of it in and you're you're thinking way down the road with that money. >> Yep. Absolutely.

>> Sorry, brother. >> I know. I'm so sorry, Richard. Call us back.

Um if you need more help, for sure, we're here for you. Thanks to everyone in the booth, John. Always a fun show. And thanks to everyone listening.

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## 43. Don’t Go Broke Trying To Keep The Peace | July 4, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:14:06 |

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[Music] [Applause] [Music] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author Jade Warshaw and we are here to answer your questions about life, money, career, anything and everything. So give us a call at88255225.

Up first this hour we have Chris in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey Chris, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

So, I'm asking this question for my daughter and her fiance. Um, and I wanted you guys to give your best explanation of why you should not buy a house together before you are married.

Oh, I like that. So, I mean, the first thing is there's no legal protections. I mean, you're kind of just his word against her word and you're comingling money together and so at the end of the day, if it doesn't work out, there's not really a process in place to decide who gets what. That would be my first thought.

Okay. So, with you saying that, of course, nobody goes into a marriage thinking that it's not going to work out. And these two are no different. Um,

but they both still live at home. They both have uh jobs. She's in college and

she's finishing up a teaching degree, which is going to take her three years to do that. And they're scheduled to get married in April of 26. Um they're

trying to understand how you um

you wait until you're married to buy a house because they say, "Well, where are we going to live at?" Uh well, that's that's a good question. Um and I tell them you got to look at renting. And if they decide to um wait, I want you to explain to them why that's a a good thing, I guess, is what I'm saying. To wait to get married or to wait to not buy the house together.

Wait to not buy the house together. I think they understand the finance part of it, but um I think they're like if we don't have it when we get married, we don't have nowhere to go. So that's what I'm I'm kind of getting at wanting them to understand and hear it from somebody else. Well, there's two conversations I think.

There's the value side of it and then there's the money side of it. So on the money side, yeah, we don't recommend combining money until you're married. So up until this point, they should be viewing her money as her money, his money as his money. So her money is used to buy her rent, her food, pay her bills, that sort of thing.

And vice versa for him.

right? Would you agree? Yes, I would agree 100%.

Yeah. I just want to Well, I'm sorry.

Yeah. No, it's fine. And when you own something with someone, and this is even a car, Chris, we would say this about a car. When both of your names are on the

ownership of something, to detangle that

is very difficult to do. And when you have an asset like a house, it's it's very difficult. And then I would say to them as well, financially speaking, they're just going to be out of school. They don't they can't afford a house anyways.

Like the upkeep of home ownership already is going to add stress to their life, and they don't need that, right? that that's down the road and we want that to be part of their plan long term. But it almost kind of steals a level of joy and freedom. Like when you can just rent and everything's taken care of for you, like en enjoy your early 20s.

Don't, you know, if you're in a place financially that, you know, you're settling down and you can buy a home and can afford it, that's one thing. But when you're first starting out, like understand that, you know, it's very, very expensive. So, so on that end, Chris, it's very unwise, very unwise to put your name together when you are not married on an asset because just like um Jay just said, untangling that it's it's a mess. It's an absolute mess.

And then a house is is magnified in that that is not a wise move.

And again, people can, you know, do what they want to do and believe what they want to believe. But I think there is something to be said about acting like you're married and pretending like you're married when you're not. you're not married and there is you know a level of of something sacred to say hey I'm going to join my life with this person under a vow and under a covenant and we are going to then merge our lives together and actually you know do this life together and and and there's something that you know nowadays it's just like you know you you gave it all away right up front and it's like man there's just something about saying we're going to do this in a order that again some would say is old-fashioned but I think is wise because it actually gives you options.

And too, Chris, I've talked to so many people that, you know, they live together and and worse, they have a house together and they're not like, "Ugh, I don't even know if I want to marry this person." And the long, you know, creating this timeline of the breaking up lasts so much longer versus like, hey, we're just trying to figure this out and it's not working.

I think so. Get to that point. What I think's going on here is there there's a a lack of foresight obviously because they're thinking under best case scenario and that already is a red flag to me because the truth is life happens. You don't know what life's going to happen.

So having the right protections in place is important. The other thing is I think that this is more out of convenience than anything else. I think they're trying to create a certain level of convenience instead of living their lives as they are. How old did you say they are?

They're they're 20 now.

They're 20 now. So, yeah, I feel like they're going they're going it's just easier to do it like this as opposed to taking the smarter route and the more

independent route. Does that make sense?

I mean, I know this is not for you, it's for them, but Absolutely. That's why I call cuz you what you said is is right on the money and I can't wait for them to hear this. Well, let us know how they take it. I hope they they'll take it from two ladies who Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. And and and it's a hard thing, too, Chris. you know, I mean, granted, she's 20, so I do feel like her um you

you being able to speak into her life is, you know, the doors it's starting to close, you know, with her becoming an adult, but it's still open hopefully. Uh but also knowing that, you know, as as they as your kids get older and especially when they start entering adulthood, um the the conversation does look different, the tone you take, the perspective you take. And I would just say to you, Chris, that you know, as much as you can, the biggest way to influence, I would think her as a 20year-old who's in college, knows what she wants to do for her career.

She's obviously very smart and she's, you know, knows a path that she's walking down.

conversation as much of an a friend aspect than like I'm a dad, I'm going to tell you what to do. I just feel like you start to get to that age in the late teens, early 20s where it's like the persuasiveness of a parent comes into

play much stronger than I can control you. Like when you have like a three-year-old and you're like this is what you're going to do. But some of it still gets in. Like truth truthfully, I remember when I was in my 20s, I was dating this guy and I remember my dad telling me, he was like, Jade, like before you go too deep into this, just know like your tastes change. Like what

you want changes over time. And I think he told me something like what you want is going to change like five or six times. So, and I mean it was weird

because he was like, you know, you were dating this guy and you thought and then you were dating this. He's like, this guy's like number four. Like you might change your mind again. And as at the time I was kind of like, oh this guy, dad doesn't know what he's talking about.

But he was right. Yeah. And so there's part of I'm like, you're 20 years old. Don't get me wrong, some people they marry their high school sweetheart, whatever.

I'm not saying against that.

most of us. You change so much from 20

to 25 even. Right. Right. And so there's

part of that where it's like you guys you don't know what's going to happen in the future and you certainly don't want to be like locked into a financial asset like a house that might make you feel trapped. Yes. Let the timeline unfold naturally. Right. and and let the turn of events that, you know, the um order of events play out in a natural way versus trying to force it and rearrange everything because it's just going to make it more difficult. Hope that helps, Chris. Thanks for the call. This is the Ramsay Show.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable. Yeah. And what's

so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." Or people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of a stinking pizza.

So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800356-4282.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

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So, one thing that is approaching quickly, Jade, is the live like no one else cruise. We have 85% of the cabins

booked, and you guys don't want to miss it. We're going to Turks and Caos. We're going to St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas. It's just going to be it's going to be amazing. I mean, Yep. And your tickets, of course, include with the cruise ship. All your food is included. even room service. There's lounges by all the pools and the hot tubs and we're all going to be there.

All the Ramsey personalities and um a

whole lineup of other other guests. So, it's going to be a really really fun week you all. And again, this is for those of you on Baby Steps 4 and beyond.

And we want to celebrate you because we talk about living like no one else. So, later you can live and you can give like no one else. And this is part of enjoying the money and where you are financially. And you're going to do it with us and we can't wait.

So, it is March 22nd through the 29th and it's coming up fast. So, you do not want to miss this incredible vacation. You can go to ramseysolutions.com/cruise or you can click the link in the description if you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcast. Love it.

Up next, we have Shannon in Pensacola, Florida. Hey Shannon, welcome to the show. How are y'all? We are doing well.

Thanks for calling. How can we help?

question because I've been getting a So, I own a home here in Pensacola. That's my only debt. And I have a current

interest rate at 7.49.

And I've been getting and you know, I just feel like there's just so much fraud going on. And I don't know how

y'all feel about that. What kind of fraud? What do you mean? Well, I just mean like on so many different levels.

So, I had a kid call me today who said,

"Oh, well, we can give you you have an

FHA loan, so we can give you a 5 I don't

know what he said, 42 and oh, no money

down." I go, "Wait a minute. I'm a business development person." So, I'm like, "Well, what's in it for you guys?" So, he wanted you to refinance and he's going to get the fees associated with he wanted me to refinance, but I'm like, "Wait a minute. How does this work out?"

Because I keep in touch with my current

mortgage broker that I use to buy the home. Uhhuh. I keep in touch with her and I say, "Hey, what are they at?" Because I got a letter from FHA. Yeah.

Who said, "Hey, we can go down to 5.25

25 to 5.2%

and I just wanted to know y'all's thoughts on that and I just feel like I'm like okay I mean you're right you're

we're going to start to wait and I know this election there's just so much I

don't have to do it again let's roll it

on home. All right here's the thing.

Yeah. Yes. I think that we are starting

to be at a turning point when we're going to see I mean we already have seen uh mortgage interest rates go down and I think they're going down again this month is what the Fed is saying. So they should and we might even see it before they release you know their um report or

in their uh report of the interest rates whatever. But my point is you get to decide right if you don't want to refinance you don't have to refinance.

And if there's an offer I do want my mortgage to go down y'all. Okay. Well, if there's if there's an offer that presents itself to you and you're interested in it, I I just you started out the conversation start talking about scams and then we kind of went to the

election, then we kind of went to interest rates and I want to kind of

clear it out. Being able to refinance your house at a lower interest rate is not a scam. Unless you do your due diligence and find, okay, this is not a scammer for it, some random guy that calls you. I probably wouldn't use him.

a guy that called me. I'm just making a point is that he's like, "Oh, it doesn't

cost you anything." And I'm like, "Wait a minute. That's kind of where I'm coming." So, yeah, they're probably, to your point, anything that comes up that is that is exciting right now. We find this always in the financial industry.

There's always going to be people prying on that, right? So, whether it's mortgage, you know, mortgage rates are dropping, so people are going to clamor to refinance and there may be scammers out of that. Crypto became a big thing.

Scammers flock to that. they will flock to try to get people's money. So that's where your discernment Shannon comes in that if you choose and probably will and anyone listening refinancing, you know, if you're going to be in the house long term, it's a it's a great option. And so maybe you wait another 6 months to see, you know, after the election to see if it keeps dropping and then maybe Shannon, you decide to do that.

Then I would use a reputable broker, whether you have one.

I'm from Oklahoma. She's from Oklahoma and I just trust her. That's great.

Yeah. Yeah. So, doing doing it reputably. So, yeah, I think um for sure that it would be um I think it's a great option and people will be doing that more and more. And I think you had great advice there, Rachel. If you're looking at rates and you're seeing them go down, I wouldn't like jump to refinance instantly. I'd like let it happen. Let them roll back because they're probably not going to jump right back up, right?

We we have finally gotten to the point where it's like, okay, inflation is at this point. unemployment's at this point. It has to happen. So, I'm with you. I'd probably wait until after the election. Let the chips fall where they do and then you can make the wisest decision for sure. All right. Up next, we got Mike in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Mike.

Welcome to the show. Hello. How are you?

We're doing great. How can we help? Um,

okay. I'm 42 years old and I made some bad financial decisions in my life um regarding 401k and stuff like that.

Okay. got divorced. Ex-wife took half the 401k and I've cashed it in a few times and I'm basically starting over at 42. I have like 21,000 in my 401k now

and I'm only putting in like 6% because we're on baby step number two and I was

want to see is it too late?

No, not at all. Not at all. Not by a long shot. No. Um and if anything, this

will probably scare you more, Mike. I would advise you to even pause that 6% while you're getting out of debt because here's the deal. When you free up so much of your payments, you're able to throw then 15% of your income at retirement and be able to catch up. So, how much debt do you guys have?

Um, the house we got like 83,000 on and

uh the truck we're trying to get paid off. Um, we should have paid off by the end of this year. How much is it? Um um

I got like 10 almost 11,000 left in a minute. Okay. And we're we're You keep

saying we. Who's we? I know you were divor. You I thought you were Okay. So you got divorced. You remarried. Yeah. My my ex-wife took half the 401k. I got remarried.

Okay. Perfect. Okay. Perfect. So 11,000 on the truck. A lot better money. Yeah.

That's great. Okay. So 11,000 on the truck. What else do you guys have?

Um, just a mortgage. Okay. So, the 11,000. Okay. Yeah. So, the mortgage goes obviously in baby step six. So, we're not worried about that right now.

So, yeah, I would get this 11,000. How much do you guys make combined income?

Uh, I make 37.84 an hour and she makes about 30. Okay. What's that amount to every month?

Do what now? What's that amount to every month? What do you see monthly on your budget? Oh. Um, around five 6,000 a month. Okay. Just

just for me? Just for you? Yes. And then

what does she bring in a month?

Yeah, it's close to 5,000. Okay, that's great. So, you guys are making 120,000 a year. Fair. Yeah, close to Okay. Before tax. So yeah, I would pause that 6% Mike honestly until this truck's paid off and then you guys get a fully funded emergency fund and then press play and then you got 15%. Um Jade's got her fancy calculator out. So we're going to be Are you able to Yeah, I got it in there. Say, so you were worried earlier.

You're like, I'm 42. I've made these mistakes. And here's the thing. This is just the picture you painted today.

Let's pretend you clear out this car.

You clear out this debt pretty quickly.

And you said you make about 120,000 a year. You know, if you're putting around 15% into investments, that's about $1,500 a month. Let's say you do that from the time you're 42 to the to the time you're 65. And I'm just using the Ramsey Solutions investment calculator.

Uh you already had 21,000 in there, which is great. So if every month you contribute 1,500 at a 10% rate of

return, which is uh average, contrary to

popular belief, I mean, that's almost $2 million. It's $1.8 million. And that's a

big deal. That's plenty. And on the current income you have, Mike. That's right. That's not you getting raises and your wife changing jobs. I mean, it will continue. Usually for most people, their income continues to go up in their lifetime, right? So, $2 million, Mike, you're on track. Don't you worry. But hey, it's a good little like uh you know, we talk about how fear can be a gift. There's a great book called Fear is a gift and there was a gift of fear.

And there is there is a a beauty in it because it kind of does shake you up a little bit. Oh my gosh, am I late? And then you're able to say, "Okay, what changes do we need to make for this not to be a reality?" So, you're doing great, Mike. I I appreciate you calling and good luck to you and your wife cuz yeah, you guys are on track. This is the Ramsay Show.

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[Applause]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw. So give us a call at88255225

and we're here to answer your questions.

Up next we have Sarah in Atlanta. Hey

Sarah, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you? Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

Oh, I I pretty much don't even know where to really start. So um I've been

married for less than um three years.

Okay. Um, and uh, I've worked for

everything that I have and nothing was given to me. And um, when I got married,

I uh, was my net worth was a little over

a million. And uh, but that did uh,

consist of most money in retirement and equity and a few rental properties. Mhm.

Um my fiance at the time, now a husband,

uh did not have as much as I did, which

was fine. Um and uh

so we had decided to get a prenap

uh he came in with I matched and then anything else in excess of that was to go to our children. What' he come in with? Um he came in with 160,000. So you

were at a million net worth and he was at 160 net worth. Yeah. Whose idea was

the prenup? Mine. Okay.

Keep going.

So um fast forward um

uh fast forward um I'm making a great

income. He's making a great income. I've always been a saver just naturally very

always, you know, lived below my means and um things just began like just not

making any sense. Um and uh my husband

owns his own business and I just started seeing our accounts getting lower and lower and lower when I believe our

account should have been getting higher and higher. So I said, "Hey, you know, like what's going on?" and um his response was you know um I just haven't

done uh the paperwork you know for taxes and said that he filed a tax extension so um you know so um it's taking money

out of his savings until he goes through his paperwork so he can know what he has to pay exactly I said okay um several

months went by and I still notice these things going down and things just don't make sense to me um something in

particular happened And I said I pretty

much said um are you sure everything's okay? He said yeah. I asked him to

please let me see his account his business account where he said all the money was. Mhm. And that's when he admitted to me that he has uh

that he is he has been stealing from uh

his words were uh from us from me and is

a fraud.

and um needless to say um dove into

everything and he has completely wiped

us out. Oh my gosh. Um our savings um

everything. We now only have um two months of emergency fund. We have two very small children. Two two under two.

Uhhuh.

Um so when you say he wiped out your savings, how much did you have saved?

and he was just funneling it to keep his business afloat. Is that what you're saying? So, we had we had over $100,000

in savings. He also um took from me

personally $286,000

out of where?

um just uh various accounts that I had

that were uh deemed as premarital that

that weren't supposed to be touched. And what did he use that money for?

So I I so I just went through everything

and um there is no addictions, there was no other woman, there's nothing like that. So then when I dove into things, so it turns out that he actually the lies began when we were dating and uh he

actually lied on his prenup and um the 160,000 that he even came in with were

tied to loans

and lines of credit from his business.

So he just said that this is how much credit I have. It's not real it's not

real net worth. I didn't know that. But

that's what he just admitted to you though recently. So yeah. So So really he came in with zero and he li And he lied on a He actually came in with legal document. So he lied on a legal document too. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. When did all this happen, Sarah? How long ago?

About two months ago. Okay. And I have to say I'm still in shock. Sure. Sure.

Um how's the business doing? Is is it going into the business and his business is tanking or does he when you look at his business is is there profit

and he's just not bringing that back into the personal side? His No, no, his

business is not doing anywhere near as well as it used to or as it was. And um

he has been lying about how well it's doing. Wow. And um you know you know and

uh just you know like I'm I'm a budgeter

you know like if you tell me hey you know only this much money is coming in I'll just you know pull out a spreadsheet and say hey let's start budgeting but that's not what happened instead you know we're going on vacations. Yeah. Instead we're you know doing things like that that we shouldn't be doing um if you have debt. Um, so

he's also racked up about $130,000

now in personal debt. Can Can I ask you a Can I ask you a question? Cuz he's not here, so I can't question him in the same way. Yeah. What was the inside of you that made you go, I need to sign a prenup with this guy?

Was there a red flag already? No, it was

No, there wasn't. It was just the fact that our that our uh net worths were so

vastly so different. Yeah. Different.

Yeah. Yeah. Sarah, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. So, are you separating from him?

Um, no, I feel um we have two very small

children. M and again I'm still very much in shock but we have two very small children and I know the statistics with uh growing home going in a home is you know growing up in a home with a broken household and I don't want that for my children either. Yeah. Are you in counseling? They're just so young. Are you guys in counseling? Will he go? No.

Uh um he said he would go but to be quite frank afford right now.

Well, if you're going to make this the

marriage part work, Sarah, you're married to a liar. And not just a liar

like here and there. Like I mean, this is like a this is Yeah, this is a there's there's something there's something wrong deeply deeply deeply wrong um with him and in the process

he's hurting his family. And so for you to draw boundaries for yourself does not make you a bad mom. Uh, I just want to I just want to give you freedom to do what's best for Sarah in this moment and to to for this to be a healthy longevity

you know level of a marriage there is

there is a lot of broken broken broken pieces and without a professional I really believe uh to be in the mix of this and and and for him to show deep remorse and a pattern of

change until you have trust I'm separating everything today. Sarah, financially, you need to protect yourself. Um, you need to your income

now goes into a different account with his name nowhere near it. I would contact a lawyer um just on the basis of

lying about a prenup. Uh, I would just get some more information to protect yourself and your kids because I have I

have already done most of that and um I'm in the midst of a a postup

which he has agreed to where you go back and and have like basically a prenup in the middle of the marriage. Is that is that what that is? Changing the prenup to make it correct to where you guys currently are. No, no, no. Um, so I'm

just reiterating that like um his debt is his debt and even if I decided to

let's say help him get out of his debt

that I would not be, you know, I'm expecting to get reimbursed at some point, it's not just Yeah. my responsibility. I hear you. Yeah.

Well, what we find so much often, Sarah, with these um I mean that this I mean the the level of financial infidelity that you've experienced is the level of an affair. I mean it, you know, you can you can put anything in place, but that you start to question yourself. I mean, there's so much in that when you are so deeply lied to from the person that you're supposed to be in a marriage with.

my own therapist. I would have him go to therapy if you're going to make this work, but I would also protect yourself until a pattern is proven that he's proven back his trust with finances. But for now, I would keep it separate and you have your stuff.

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You are listening to the Ramsay Show.

And hey, thank you for listening to this show. This show is bringing hope to so many people, changing millions of lives.

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So thank you for listening, thank you for liking, thank you for subscribing, and thank you, thank you for sharing this show. We really, really appreciate it. It helps us oh so much. So keep doing that.

And in the meantime, we're going to go to the phones. We got Brenda. She's in Jackson, Mississippi.

Hello. Um hi, Jade and Rachel. Thank you for um taking my call. You bet. Um me

and my husband are having a little bit of a disagreement about a job that's coming up. Um me and my husband are in baby step three. Um so saving up for

that 3 to six month emergency fund. Um

my uh my husband and I just run a little

side gig of um handyman service. We have

not been formally trained or anything, but we work on our own house and um so do it for friends and family that need help. Um the job that's coming up this

weekend is for a missionary friend of ours. Um the wife doesn't work and the husband works two small part-time jobs

and um they had a leak in their bathroom

and they knew about it but didn't deal with it for a couple of years. So now the damage is pretty extensive.

Um so uh my husband wants to charge them

about uh $10 an hour for us to do the

work. Um they will cover the materials.

Um in addition and then but I want to

charge our standard service which is about $50 an hour. Oh, okay. Um he says

that they're poor um and so we shouldn't

charge them and they have told us that

they don't really have the money to do it but it's getting to the point where their shower is about to fall through the floor. Did they come to you because they figured you would give them a discount? Like have they given any indication that it's like oh they'll probably give us a discount?

Not necessarily,

but they they know that we're going to be cheaper than a regular contractor that's going to come out and do it. I mean, Brenda, how long how long would the How long would the project take? How long would the project take? Two to four days, depending on how extensive it is

once we get into it, if it's worse than we think it is. And if you did it, that would be the only thing you could work on for the two to four days. Yes. But

it's time that my husband has off anyway, so it's not like we're taking off additional work. Yeah. I mean, if

you feel like you're being taken advantage of, that's one thing for sure that doesn't feel good ever to anyone.

Um, but we also when we talk about giving, you know, there's giving in money, there's giving in time, there's giving in talents, and maybe it's a thing your husband's like, "Yeah, I just feel called to help this family." And they're in a really rough situation.

They don't have the money to fix something like their water. Like I mean it's kind of a need. It's a necessity.

And I mean if he wants to do it and and

again I think it's a one-off if it becomes a pattern where he constantly is using his time and keeps losing money continually maybe like a red flag but for two days if it's something that he wants to do. Um I mean I get you guys are on baby step three. I understand it.

And again if you're being taken advantage of like that feels gross, right? Like there's a there's a level there where you're like I don't know if that feels right. And but I feel like if he wants to do it out of just who he is

and he can and y'all aren't paying y'all. It's no out of pocket for y'all.

It's really just time at that point. Um

I don't know. I I I I could see it. But I'm more of like the emotional side person when it comes to that stuff. I'm like, "Yeah, absolutely.

We can do it." But I don't want it to be detrimental to you guys. But I don't think 20 I don't think two days is detrimental. I mean, I'll tell I'll tell you what my husband and I do because I'm always the one that's like, "Let's give this much." And he's like, "Uh, cool out. Like, let's pull back.

Like, let me let me look at the numbers." And so, what we always do is we agree to pray about it. Like, you go over there and pray about it. I'll go over here and pray about it. And then when we come together, it's like 1 2 3 say it.

that's trying to do the most. And he's come up a little bit, you know, and so then from there, we just kind of meet in the middle. So maybe it's, you know, you want to charge the whole $50 an hour. He was doing 10. Maybe it's like, hey,

maybe getting off this call, you're like, "Fine, I'll just do what he wants to do." But if you're not, like, go pray about it. Give yourselves 24 hours or whatever time you have and then meet in the middle. Like you'll either come out on on the same card or it's something that you have to meet in the middle and maybe it's like, "Okay, we're not going to charge 50, but we're going to charge 25 and we're going to give them half rate." Whatever it is. Um Yeah.

Or maybe it's a time thing too that if you guys get into it and it's going to take an a day beyond that that you guys may say, "Hey, there's a point that we're not going to be able to continue this because of XY andZ." And letting them know that upfront.

We know they follow We know they've heard about the Ramsy plan and they agree with it, but we also know that

they they don't have the money. Yeah.

But did they say that to you guys? It's like we don't have money to fix this.

Well, not necessarily, but they told us that they might put like we we said we would need money up front to pay for the materials and they said, "Well, if we don't get paid this week, um like if our check isn't big enough, we'll just put it on a credit card." And that's when my husband was like, "No, well, no, we don't really have to that much." Yep.

So, again, I think the point is, you know, we didn't put him in this position. and they knew about this leak for years and they did nothing about it.

Sure. It could have been a cheaper fix.

So, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And and again,

I think if there are people in your lives that you continue to enable and continue to give and give and give and give and give and they don't ch I mean, like there's a there's a level that you could start to be taken advantage of for sure. But if you haven't had history of that or history going forward and he just feels this like tug on his heart of like I just feel like you know I I want to do this not because I have to or because I feel bad like you know what I mean like there's bad there's not great motivations always like it needs to be something that he's like listen I see this family I know I can do this I'm going to give them two days I'm going to give them a significant discount they need the help and I feel called to do that like that may be what he wants to do you know what I mean but I do think yes I hear you Brenda that it doesn't feel right.

Like there's not a level of justice there. She's not working. She could go and get a job and bring in money.

What's the real numbers here? Cuz you gave us by hour. Like what how how much money is this equating to?

So if it was my fee, it would be um

$1,000 to $1,500, not including materials. And we don't upcharge on materials at all. Okay. Um, and if it

was my husband's, it would just be $200 flat. And who covers the materials? They do. They still cover the materials. Yes.

So, it's about $300 in materials and then an additional $200 for labor. So,

$500 total.

Okay. So, we're talking about the difference between like $200 or $1,800.

Uh, no. uh $1,500 or $500. Okay. So,

it's a,000. The material is 300 and it'd be the same either way. So, it's $1,000

difference. Um, you know,

I I wouldn't tell you what to do. I mean, I can sit here and be like, listen, if you guys have the money, do it. But at the same time, you and your husband have to be on the same page. And that's something that Rachel and I can't do for you. So, listen, take my advice.

Go home and give yourself a quick little bit of time and be like we're going to pray about it. We're going to take you get 24 hours, I get 24 hours. We're going to reconvene and no matter where we hit, we're going to meet in the middle and then there is some bit of

give and some bit of take because I would be feeling some type of way if I was like this is my this is my vacation time. Like we are supposed to go away with the family and do something fun because then it's not only the time but it's the value of the time too. So there are yeah if he's having to take PTO and all Yes. I think that there's yes wise ways to go about it, but if you're self-employed, he's doing his own thing and he has two days that he wants to go and help.

I don't know. I think service is a great way to give. Yes.

Time is so valuable. It's so valuable.

Oh, yeah. Oh, that's a conundrum. But, you know, I always like to live to lean a little bit on the side of generosity.

I mean, you have to do what you can afford and what makes sense for your family. Um, but yes, generosity is very,

very important. That does it for this hour of the Ramsay Show. Thanks for hanging out with us. Check us out next hour.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author, Jade Warshaw, and we are here to answer your questions. So, give us a call at88255225.

[Music] We'll be answering your questions about life, about money, relationships, career, anything or everything. We are here for you, America. All right, up next we have Josh in Sacramento, California. Hey Josh, welcome to the show. Hi. Hi. Thanks for having me and taking my calls. Absolutely. Kind of go straight to the point. Straight to the point. I I live in the People's Republic of California. I'm trying to leave this state. Uh what I have a problem with is

it's kind of a financial and life career as well. So right now I'm a federal government employee. I am seven years out from retirement or when I'm eligible. Uh my wife is a nurse. She

makes really good money in California and they make around $90 an hour. Uh my

my goal is to one sell my house, transfer to a different position and to a different state uh within the same agency. Um just because I have a very toxic work environment going on right now and I just I need to get out. Um but the problem is is if my wife leaves the state of California, she'd go from $90 an hour to $30 an hour, which is a huge financial huge financial cut. Um she'd

also probably lose her 401k as well as that. Um, we did talk about doing foster

to adopt uh in the event that we did move. But my question to you, I guess, is am I just being cutting my nose off despite my face and just should I just deal with it knowing the fact that I have seven years left to retirement? My house will be paid off in four years. You sound like you're at the end of your like rope. You sound really frustrated. Are you? Oh, I am. I'm very frustrated. Yes, I'm very frustrated.

I've I've wanted to transfer. I've wanted to transfer and get out of the state for 17 years of my career. Does your wife want to leave as well besides the money? I know she'll take a pay cut, but just in general, her family's here, but she realizes how frustrated I am.

Mhm. And like I said, my my boss is just

horrible right now. And it's been going on for a long time. Oh, yeah. Yes, it

has. So, my question to you is, am I being emotionally stupid by wanting to leave just so I can quote unquote have a more happy life to trade one stress for another for financial stress. Is it California like Okay, so if you you work for the state the whole gambit it's it's California. The state sucks. The high taxes, the just getting out of everything. All right. Um Okay. You are Yeah, you you're at your wits. You're done. You're done. Um Okay.

So, if you were to leave, what would you do and where would you go? Uh I'd

basically stay with the same federal agency. Um, I would go from what I'm doing now to basically to just a different function or job function, but just to the same pay. Is there I would get it a little bit I'm glad it would be a lower cost of living which would be 13 grand a year where but I'd imagine that so it'd be from California possibly to Georgia but I'm wondering if the tax rate out of

Well, that's where that's where the position is at for my agency. Have you ever been to Georgia? Okay. Have you ever been? Yes, I have. Okay. What's your wife think about Georgia?

sections that she hates. So, okay.

Because here's the thing, Josh. I mean, I can hear you're frustrated and I I mean, I could only imagine. I mean, I I understand it is from from like just the state perspective that you're frustrated with and then on top of that, you have a terrible job. You go and work somewhere for 40, 50 hours a week. Yeah. In a miserable place. So, yeah, you're you're not in a good this isn't like a good headsp space for Josh. So, my question is um you're not the only one in this

equation, right? So your wife is is going to have as much of an input um in

the situ in this decision too because um

I think that there there has to be this you know I I don't know but if she is not on board resentment later on in life

go you know moving away from family going to a place she hates she's going to end up being you in four years possibly I don't know but that's a warning sign is just like you guys need to be so tightknit on this decision because it's a deal to move across the country. Um, so so you guys need to lock arms and like be full like we are in this together. The the the good, the bad, the ugly. We are in this together because I don't want your marriage to be destroyed in the process either, right?

And I want to be able to give her a voice, too. And her frustrations may not be as deep as yours. Um, and I don't want her and I and honestly, Josh, the motivation for her, I'm like I there's a part of me that I'm like I I would hate for her to do it just just to make you happy because because Josh is frustrated. So we got to go do what Josh wants to do, right? So, like there needs to be a level of agreement upon you guys. Um, and I thought plan B too,

which I know you hate California, but is there a different position you could take wi where you guys live? A different job, a different opportunity at least to get out of the toxicness of that job and

then just have the frustrations with the taxes in California. I don't know.

But if you and your wife agree to move to Georgia, then make the move. You're not. No, leaving a job 7 years away from retirement is not stupid because the

work is you're you're in a terrible situation. So, no, that is not stupid to leave that. No, I listen I I am of the

mind that if one spouse is completely

unhappy, then the neither nobody's happy. That's true. So, I do think that probably a move is good, but if she has come out and said, "I don't really like Georgia," then Georgia's got to be off the table. Uh, you've got to pick a place where both of you are like, "Yeah, I feel Yeah, I'm up for that adventure." And I mean, there's 50. I don't want to say 50 states. What is it now? 49.

No, it's 50. But don't the other territories count? Okay. So, there's 50 states and then some territories depending on what history book you look in. Okay. And so, there's a lot of options here is what I'm saying. Um, going back to the conversation about the 401k quickly, what made you say that she'd lose her 401k?

So, so, well, I wouldn't say she would lose her 401k. What she do is she would stop contributing to a 401k. So, she would be able to take it out. Yeah, you just transfer it.

You just transfer it, right? Okay. I just want to be clear about that. So, I guess the issue is me is, you know, I've only got seven years left.

My mortgage will be done in four years on my house. My wife is going from $90 an hour to basically 30 if she decides to work. If not, then it's like it's a huge Let me ask Let me ask you this. Is there any world where you're like I is there any world where you're willing to ride this out longer because you're the person who brought up in just seven years I'll retire and in just four years I'll have my car paid off so or I'm sorry my house paid off.

know what I'm saying? Like are those things that you're weighing in or are you beyond that? So here's the problem.

Emotionally and mentally I'm just I am checked out. Mhm. The problem is is I don't want to live life on the emotional aspect. I know logically, financially,

it makes more sense to stay. However, I don't know if I can emotionally and mentally handle it for your Yeah.

mentally and emotionally is going to be because you could be debtree and still be miserable in your job like and you're not saying this is after 6 months.

You've said for years for years you've been upset. Yeah. I thought about most my career probably about 10 last 10 years. My career has gotten a little. So, it's safe to say that you have sacrificed a certain level. Why have you stayed in it, Josh? I'm curious. What was that? Why have you stayed in it for 10 years? Uh, the pension in early retirement. Okay. So, this is a good lesson for America that money does not equate to happiness. There is a level of

your life that as adults, we have to decide to bring a level of peace and just and to work a crappy I would say a different word, but we're on a familyfriendly show. crappy crappy situation just to make a paycheck. You guys, it's not worth it. Like life is too short.

Life is too short, Josh. So, you and your wife, I would sit down, you guys. Yeah. Pick a place on the map and say, "We're going to transform." And we may even be in different careers, but we're going to find the level of peace and enjoyment, and we may make less, but people that make less and live within their means and work somewhere, they're happy.

y'all got to make some changes for sure. And you should have made them eight years ago, if I'm being honest. It's not to shame you, but we need to make some decisions here, Josh. We're rooting for you. Come to Nashville. This is the Ramsay Show.

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may not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Justin in California. He says, "I've been working hard to save money for a house. My wife and I have no debt and have a six-month emergency fund. So far, I've saved $175,000 for our down payment. We have a combined income of 140,000. We live in California

and are looking at houses in the $650,000 range. I want to save more so

that we can put uh more down on the house. My wife has been asking me to buy her a diamond ring that costs about $3,500.

I am holding off on buying the ring because we can use that money to pay for closing costs. Should I buy a diamond ring for her or wait until we buy the house? This is wild. Um, I'm assuming

that the diamond ring is not like an

like a wedding ring or like I'm I'm assuming it's just a gift that she wants. Right. Right. Um, yeah. I think

based on what you've laid out here, I would have loved to hear her side of it.

But based off of what you've laid out here, it sounds like you have decided that the priority is the house. And at the end of the day, you both need to sit down and retalk and say, "Okay, what's more important? Us trying to get into this house?" Because if I buy this ring,

this is how much it sets us back. So, yeah. And I would want to know the time frame on how much like how how many months or how you know what I mean? Like just to know like how how is this setting you back and is that are you are you okay with that both of you? Yeah.

And I do think it's okay. Uh and Rachel, you can drop in here. I think it's okay like as a couple when you set a focus and you're going towards that thing and as the time passes other things crop up and you're like, "Oh, that could be cool or that could be fun." Yes. And I do think it's important to have those conversations and decide, are we realigning back on what the goal was or are we going to divert here for a moment?

Because at the end of the day, it is your life and you get to decide, you know, how how urgently are we moving. That's right. And I don't know if this diamond ring was something you've been promising her. Maybe you guys got engaged and you never got her a ring.

I don't know any of that, but have the conversation. But it sounds like the house is what's most important.

Yeah. So, I'm like, you're in a good a good spot for the down payments. Um, you know, like it's a I don't know, you you have a lot there percentage-wise for what the house is worth. Um, so how much would 3,000 really set you back? But also, I'd want to know from her like, you know, and I do, you know, don't get me wrong, I love jewelry, I love shopping, all of it. But also, you're like, "Okay, what what is that going to get me in the in the near term?" Right?

Maybe maybe he maybe he got her just like a band when they got married and always promised her like an actual like diamond ring. I don't know the story. So, that's valid. If there's something there. Um, but I would want to see time

frame how long this would set you back

to the goal that you want to have for your down payment on the house. That's what I'd be curious about. Hope that helps, Justin. All right. Up next, we have Haley in Omaha. Hey Haley, welcome

to the show.

Hi, thank you for having me today. It's such an honor to be on the show.

Absolutely. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

So, my parents took out a universal life policy on me when I was born. Me and my sister both. And now that I've turned 21, I have the option to continue paying

those payments for the universal life policy or cashing it out with the cash value and gifting that back to my parents and and just moving on for the

future. Oh, you have to give it back to them when you cash it out?

Yes. Is that what they said?

Yeah. Okay. Okay. How much will it be?

Um, it's just $750 for the cash value.

Okay. Okay. Gotcha. I'm just curious because you said you have the option to keep paying on it or cash it out. Yes.

So, that's interesting to me that you would keep paying on it and then but if

you were to cash it out, you have to give the money back to them. This is very odd. Either way, I would cash it out and get out of that. Yeah. How old are you, Haley? Did you say I'm I'm 21.

21. Okay. So the difference between what

they have a universal life policy is similar to like it's like basically a whole life polic policy and you're paying probably four times the amount

than what you would pay for just a standard term policy because what you have um this universal life what they basically pair is this like investment savings account with life insurance. And what ends up happening when you pair and marry those two products, you kind of get crappy on both, especially the

savings side. So the rate of return usually within these policies is like it's terrible. You could do better in a high yield savings account, much less like actually investing your money with the 10 12% return, you know, that the market brings. So the the savings investment portion sucks on these and that's the selling point.

So, always remember this, Haley, going forward into adulthood that you want to keep your insurance and your investing completely separate. Never combine them because when you combine them, you're not getting the best of both worlds. You're paying more for a policy and you're getting a crappy investment with it. So, like it's a horrible product.

And a lot of parents, yeah, you took it out when you were born. I mean, 20 that's the Gerber life insurance. I mean, like all these companies go and they do this, you know, these policies for babies and and why you need life insurance too, Haley, is if someone is dependent upon your income.

would cancel it. Say goodbye to the $700. Give it back to your parents, okay? And live your life. Don't don't be paying monthly on this. And then when you need life insurance, aka when you usually when you become a parent or even a if you get married um you know and someone is dependent upon your income to live the lifestyle that you guys are living then I want you to go mention

that I could have this policy if I were to like pass away and then someone were to have to pay for my funeral cost. So that's why this policy is around like $25,000.

Sure. Okay. something you would recommend having savings for or a policy for? The purpose of insurance is for people who are dependent on your income.

Typically, when you have life insurancees in place, it's because like for instance, I have life insurance in place because my family depends on my income. My husband has life insurance in place because we depend on his income. We have children and so if one of us, God forbid, if something were to happen, the family will feel that.

That's the blessing that can come out of a really tough situation. So in this case, your parents having a policy on you was completely truly unnecessary.

Yeah. and the funeral cost, you know, idea. Funerals, they are getting more expensive, but at 21 years old, I would not have the burden of feeling like I need to have savings for my funeral, right? So, like that I I would not add that into the conversation.

Some people may be like, "That's irresponsible." But as a 21-year-old, your parents will take care of it if something were to happen to you, Haley. Um, so yeah, I would not be paying monthly into something just for that. Uh, and that is a selling point they say too, right? Like that's right.

To cover the funeral and all of that.

uh, get in a position in life though that you need life insurance. Remember, term life is going to be your best friend. And the earlier you get it, the younger you are, the healthier you are, it is like it it is so inexpensive. Even for me, I'm in my late 30s and and it's still inexpensive at this point. I mean, like it is it is u a fraction of what

you pay with whole life. So, and the coverage you get for that is Yes. Amaz.

Yes. And for term life, it is for a term of your life, right? Whole life is for your entire life. Term is for, you know, a 20 year, 30, whatever policy you buy.

But as you're doing the Ramsay baby steps and you're walking through getting out of debt, you have an emergency fund in place. You're funding retirement.

Eventually, your house is paid off. You know, baby steps millionaires are doing all of this on average in about 9 to 12

years, doing everything. And at that point, you're self-insured. when you when you if something were to happen to you and there's no house payment, there's no debt and you have I don't know 300 grand in a 401k or whatever it is, like you know, everyone's fine. So, you won't need life insurance for your entire life if you're doing the Ramsay way when it comes to your money, which is what we recommend.

I feel like it's a great call, Haley. Great question. Whole life universal life. It's like the spork.

It's a spork. It's not really a fork. It's not really a spoon. Yeah.

And if you go to Xander, Xander insurance.com, you guys check out Xander because you're able to get a quote so quickly with them uh just to even see and compare maybe the insurance that you all have that are listening or watching and maybe you can get a better deal because they go and shop many companies and it's a great great company.

[Music]

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We have

Katie on the line from Dallas from the last segment. And Katie was telling us she has $47,000 saved, $24,000 in debt,

which was car and credit cards. And she was wondering initially when she called in about um how to invest and how to pay off debt, not just let that money sit there because she wants to make progress. And as we kind of were digging into to the numbers in her situation, kind of unpacking um the relational side

of money and marriage and money is so closely related. uh when you are married, working together with your spouse and being on the same team is a crucial part. But also, we know on the other end, it's one of the leading causes of fights and tension and divorce and conflict and uh when you're not on the same page and when and when you live kind of separate lives financially. And as we were unpacking with Katie a little bit, that's what we've kind of started to discover is um where they are from a

relational standpoint when it comes to their money. Katie, is that a good overview? Would you change any of that or add anything? Oh gosh, that was unexpected. Yes, you've definitely unpacked it. We unpacked it. Yeah. So,

before we were uh getting off the call, we just kind of asked and and I feel like you it kind of struck some emotion in you um of knowing that you guys don't

work together, but yet he has a lot of

debt and you said it was just too much debt for you to even want to handle or to face. Is that right? Yeah. Um my

parents, they they they got divorced

because of money.

So that's a big kind of the background.

Um my husband, he's he has let some a few

credit cards go to collections uh recently as soon as my daughter was born. Um he just he's been underwater

for what feels like a long time. Um probably two years already. Mhm. And if I mention

this, you're going to say sell it. Well, tell us the truck. It's the truck. Um, he has

11,000 left on it, but it's these monthly payments of $600 that he he

wants to be free from. Okay. Okay. What other debt does he have?

What's the the credit cards and collections? What are what are those amount to? Do you know?

I I want to say roughly it's

7,000. Okay. Okay. Anything else?

Now you've opened my eyes. Not No, not that I know of. Maybe I need to have a discussion with him. I I think so because don't get me wrong, I I I hate debt and I don't like any amount or form

of debt. But I was again expecting for you to say like he's got $200,000 of like I was expecting something way more astronomical. And when you told us, hey,

yeah, he's got $18,000 of debt. I kind of just was like, oh, okay, cool. Like we can pay that off. And he's working, right? Yes, he is. Okay, let me dig deeper. I just it just came in. Um, so he has we have this watercraft uh boat.

It is under both of our names. Uh, but he takes financial responsibility for it and the balance is 11,000. Okay. So,

there's another 11K. What else? So,

anything else? Um, aside from his truck,

the car, and a few credit cards, there is nothing else. So, a truck and a car.

Uh, sorry. The the truck and the boat.

Okay. Truck and the boat. So, we're 28,000. How much How much is the boat worth? Do you know?

No idea. Okay. Okay. We haven't looked into it. It's very precious. Okay. And

does he have any money saved in his name?

No. No. Okay. So, um Okay. Okay. So,

Katie, I think what this starts to open

up and what you're feeling, and correct

me if I'm wrong, but it is touching every security insecurity part of your story and in your life. Like, you've done everything you can to stock money away. Even taking out credit cards and and spending over here, but just knowing the safety of money has been a lifeline

for you and probably coming out of a lot of pain from your parents' experience and you've done everything to safeguard yourself, right? um against I would say

against debt, but what's funny is you've taken on some debt, right? So, there is still a level of risk there, but you've padded yourself with the savings and it's kind of become your lifeline and you're gripping onto that and letting go of that is one of the scariest things for you to do. Would that be correct?

Yes. Yeah. Which is very understandable, Katie. Very understandable. And so I want you to as much as you can because with money emotions drive so much of this. And the more logical we can get,

the safer I think you're going to feel with some of these decisions. And one of the first steps um I would do is sit down with him because I don't know his I'm not on the phone with him and I can't ask him these questions. I don't know where he's at. If he is at a place, Katie, that he's like, I'm so overwhelmed. I'm so mad at myself, right? He's probably not feeling great about himself and it's like I want to change. I want to turn this around.

That's that's one scenario. A scenario I would have a red flag and cause you to pump the brakes a little bit on all of this if he's like I don't care. I don't care. I'm going to do what I want.

And we get those calls too with some guys that are like, "Well, he wants to buy the truck. He doesn't care. He's going to buy it and we're, you know, we can't make the payment, but he doesn't care." Right. So, like that is a character issue if it's that.

Would you say it's kind of the first scenario or the second? I'm pretty sure he will call the show tomorrow.

Saturday. Yeah. But so he's more of on the fir on that first, you know, scenario. You would say he's all for it.

Okay. Okay. So, Katie, okay. I I just I want to encourage you that you're this is all good, right? Like I I know you feel overwhelmed and we're going to walk you through a very clear plan right now.

Um, so the first thing I want you to do is you guys together tonight,

you can open a bottle of wine if you need like just a good sip of something, whatever you got to do to relax and say, "Okay, together we're going to look at everything. We're getting out our um pay subs. We're going to know exactly." When I asked you how much money you guys make a year, you said I think around six.

Like I want you to know to the dollar.

Here's what we make combined. Here's every debt. We're gonna write it out and we're going to know everything here and we're going to tonight shake hands and say we are now a team together. No

longer are we roommates vinmoing each other for the mortgage. No. Screw all of that. No, we are one.

Our income when our income hits our new checking account that we're going to open on Monday morning. When our income hits that account together, we are working as a team. Because when you do that, Katie, not only from an emotional perspective does it create so much unity and so much of a more beautiful marriage cuz you see yourselves as one, which is what you do when you choose to get married to live life with another person. You're you're living that out on a tactical sense with your money.

So that's such a beautiful part of it. And then together tactically as you start to trust each other in this, you're going to have this cleaned up, Katie. I would sell the boat immediately.

And this is going to scare you, but I would pay off all I would keep a,000 and and you would have you have I think 42,000 if you if you don't count the boat cuz I want that sold, right? You're going to pay off everything else. Okay.

And so you're going to have $5,000 left and you guys together are going to have a goal, I would say, to save up uh probably, I don't know, 26 27,000 for an emergency fund. Mhm. And you're going to that's your next goal together, Katie, is to work to to buff up that emergency fund. Okay.

And that's going to take you guys, you know, maybe the next 8 n months, 10 months to do all of that um for that emergency fund. But together, that's going to be your goal for 2025 together doing this, getting rid of the payments. We're done with payments.

What? 5,000 left.

What' you say? 5,000 left. Yeah, I would have 5,000 left. So, I'm paying off my two credit cards. Yes.

I'm paying off my car. Yes.

Selling the boat. Mhm. And you suggested

paying off the truck. Yes. Mhm. Oh gosh,

that's scary. Is it scary because of what's going to be left? the 5,000 or it's scary that you're paying off his debt. That's great.

You know what might make it less scary if I were you? I'd calculate up all the monthly payments. I'd calculate what you're paying in car payments, what you're paying in credit card payments, what he's paying in credit card payments, what he's paying in boat payments, and what you're paying in truck payments. Add up all that money.

And when you see that that you're going to have that back every single month, I think that's going to make you feel less scared cuz that's a lot. That's a hefty chunk. You have a lot of your income, Katie, leaving and a lot of it's going to be coming back to you and you'll be able to build this emergency fund up back very, very quickly. And then beyond that, you can start investing. Hold on.

Stay on the line, Katie, and uh Emily's going to pick up and we're going to put you guys through Financial Peace University. It's our nine lesson course and give you every dollar premium. So when you guys start looking at numbers today, you can start building out your first budget. Thanks for the call, Katie. We're cheering you guys on.

[Music]

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[Music]

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So, go to ramiesolutions.com/store or click the link in the description if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast. Up next, we have Vanessa in

Seattle. Hey, Vanessa, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. Um, okay, so I'm just going to dive right in. So, I'm a 54 year old woman. I live in the Seattle area. Um, I

am not working right now. I'm at the tail end of a bankruptcy. I was married

and I got I there was just too much debt. I couldn't there was no way that I could get out of that. So, um I did file bankruptcy. It just discharged and um so

there's that. Having, you know, just starting over with credit, I uh I am not

going to have a place to live as of December. At the end of December, the owners of the home that I've been living in have decided to sell. Uh it's and

it's been an absolute shock because my ex-husband completely remodeled the inside and I thought for sure, you know, I'd have some time here. Oh, wow. So, gosh, you've had a lot, Vanessa. I have a lot going on my Yes. Yes. I'm so sorry. Divorce and the bankruptcy and a living situation that's up in the air.

And you said your ex-husband remodeled the inside of the rental house. He did of a rental. Yeah. Because when y'all were living there together, we were for four months and then he moved out. It was an abusive uh marriage. So, it took me a long time to get out of that, but I did. I'm so proud of you. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. So, I was making uh anywhere between 15 and

18,000 with an eBay business while I was

married. He was the primary um you know

he he had the job he was bringing in very good money but we were renting in the previous house we were at for nine years. So um this was my third marriage.

I just want to say that if if I knew that I was going to be here I would already have a house but it just didn't

work out that way. So okay. So, yes, it was What are you doing

right now, Vanessa, for um How are you paying your rent right now? How are you paying for expenses?

Well, I I was living off my savings and then I lo on top of everything, I lost my daughter. It was very sudden. Um she she died. She was 26. I'm sorry, Lisa. I

know. There's so much going on. So, that

just killed me. I mean it so hard so

horrible you know any there's nothing like losing a child it's horrible I can't even imagine so it's been hard you

know to work um to concentrate on eBay to do anything really I mean it just completely I was debilitated and just

from everything so did you get anything out of the the out of the divorce

I did and I've been living on that for the last three years Um, uh, let's see.

So, I was receiving maintenance and then I I had about 50,000 saved. So, what's

that down to now?

It's down to zero. However, there is some good news. I just inherited $30,000. Okay. So, I need to know what

to do with my $30,000. I don't have any debt other than the car payment. I have a car payment that's 300 a month. And how much do you owe on the car? What's the total amount you owe on the car? I owe about 18,000 on that. Okay. So 18 to

20 it's it might be about 20 with the payoff. Fine. Okay. Um so but if I take

that Yeah. Let us let us let us give you some help here. And real quick will you just give me a quick timeline? These are big these are big things that have happened. Will you will you just kind of walk me through really quickly? Really quickly when the divorce happened, the loss of your daughter and the bankruptcy when when did all this play out? Okay.

So the bankruptcy was um it it just

discharged. So that was 90 days. It's been about four months total with that.

Okay. Um losing my daughter happened um

it was last January. So it's been a it's been a year and a half. Okay. Okay. And my divorce um we separated after we

moved into this home which was November of 2021. So he moved out in April of

2022. Okay. So since then I have been

living off of what I have what I got

what I received from that. That's good.

I just want to know cuz I mean these are like three very traumatic things that have occurred. I just didn't know how timeline wise. Um because I think for you Vanessa this um I mean your your the biggest glaring light that I see is is

the income side um of not because as you

experience with the 50,000 if you continue to live on savings and you're not you know replacing that with other income it eventually dwindles and that's

what you've experienced. And so making sure that this $30,000 does not dwindle.

And the only way to really do that is to be able to be bringing in some income.

Um which I know is so

sorry. No, you're good. Go ahead. Um okay. So I I've been working on my master's degree. I was busy with that in art history. Now what I'm going to do with that, I have no idea. I mean people what are you gonna um art history. Yeah.

Because I love I just love it. I love architecture, art. What did you plan to do with it when you got it? And yeah, that and how are you paying for it? I don't know. May maybe teach. Um I was I

was paying for my uh my

education as I went. So I still have some I have some loans I think. Oh, I'm

not sure exactly. Yeah, I have student I wasn't able to f You can't file on those. So not able to get that. We gota

we got to get organized and we got to get a game plan going forward. Right now is not the time to keep taking those classes because you can't afford to pay for them and you still have some existing student loan debt. It sounds like you've got the 18,000 for this car.

What I believe your homework should be and I think Rachel would probably agree is first things first is you got to get a job. Yeah. And and this is and you

know this is Target Vanessa. I mean this is making 18 an hour at Walmart. I mean, this is truly doing what you can because the decisions so far are not panning out

in reality for you, right? An art history degree, well, I'm going to go get a master's, but I don't know what I want to do with it, right? So, I want to make sure the ROI on your time is realistic and and so being able just to

get something in, I think it'll be good for you, Vaness. I think there's going to be a level of dignity and confidence of you going and earning your own money.

Um, that's going to be huge. So, for the time being, I mean, it would be tomorrow I would be out and just retail. Um,

whatever you can just to be getting an income in and then eventually figuring out what does Vanessa want to do and what can Vanessa do to support herself and be able to, you know, advance throughout life. You know, you're you're in your 50s and there's, you know, there's still a Yeah. a great life to live and I want you to be able to do that. Um, but the steps would be number one, finding a job tomorrow, any job.

And I would be I would be working like crazy. I think my goal would be not to touch the 30,000. That would be the goal. And I think selling the car is probably selling in the car is big because you don't need an $18,000 car, Vanessa. You need a $6,000 car. And then third, I'd say you know that you know that the time is coming where you won't be living in this house anymore. So let's start doing research on a place that we can live live that's less

expensive possibly, right? Studio apartment. I mean just tiny. I mean anything. Again, it's going to be uncomfortable for a little bit, but I think making some of these wiser, more conservative decisions is going to give you some bandwidth and some margin. You need it. Yes. Okay. The car might be a little bit tricky. And the reason is because I kept that through the bankruptcy and then just negotiated the interest rate. So, if I let that go, then it's going to hit my credit, which I want squeaky clean from here forward.

Um, possibly. Yeah, I pro I probably

could sell it at because Yeah, that's what we're talking about. We're talking about you you looking on Kelly Blue Book, decide and seeing what it's worth and then you selling it and buying something cheaper in cash, not a payment. Yep, that's right. Okay, Vanessa, that's a lot.

Um, why don't you hang on the line? Christian will pick up and we'll get you with a Ramsay coach to help you. Well, if you're listening on radio, keep on listening, but if you are on YouTube or podcast, make sure to go download the Ramsay Show app to get the third hour there. Thanks to everyone in the booth.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my friend and bestselling author Jade Warshaw. And we are here again to help you out, America. You can give us a call at88255225

and we'll answer your questions about money, about life, relationships, career. Give us a call. Up first we have John in Houston. Hey John, welcome to the show. Hello. Welcome. Thanks for or

thanks for having me, I guess. Absolutely. Yes, for sure. How can we help?

Well, I uh I filed for divorce for my wife um about a month ago. Lots has transpired since. We're we're kind of trying to maybe make it work going to marriage counseling. M um in the interim

of all this, we kind of split our finances about 2 or 3 months ago due to her spending and daughter. That's a long story. Um so fast forward to this um

this last week, I got a uh a bonus from work, a $30,000 bonus. Um by the time it was put in the bank, it was about $24,000.

Um I currently owe $11,000 on a credit

card. Um most of that is for the divorce attorney. Um, and then I the other issue I have is I I have during COVID, we had two credit cards with Chase that we quit paying because we lost our jobs and obviously employed now, but um there's a lawsuit pending against me and those are about $26,000 each. Um,

so I don't know what to do with this bonus money. One, I I don't know if I should tell the wife or not because we're not divorced. We're trying to work. That that's part of it. But the other part is do I keep the cash and try to settle with Chase? Do I pay off the current credit card that I have so I can get be back to debtree sort ofish other

than my home? Um just not real sure.

Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. What um any other money saved?

Um I have just a couple thousand dollars in the bank. Nothing nothing major.

Okay. Okay. By a couple like six or like

two like two. Okay. Yes. Two. So the

bonus is 3,000. Yes. No. No. The bonus

is 24,000. 24,000. My my hearing is off

today. Okay. So, what do you think you

can settle these Chase cards for? Have you kind of floated it out there to them? I I talked to uh the debt attorney

that I that I filed the lawsuits. He said they may be a 25,000 or 25%

reduction. Yeah. So, he's thinking they could probably settle for about 20,000 each. Each. That'd be a total of 40.

Okay. So, but they're two separate cases. So I don't One's coming up the 1st of September and the other one I don't have a date on yet. Okay. So the one coming up the 1st of September if you can settle it. I think there's part of this since it's already like gone to court like it's already you know it's progressed to the point where you're going to have to pay something. I do think there's a smart part that would hold on to that money and not put it on the other $11,000 debt

because you know this is coming and you know you're going to be on the hook for paying whether it's the full sum or you

know a reduced amount.

Okay.

So yes and then I guess just go ahead.

Well I was going to say yes. So um and anything obviously you get in that lawsuit have in have in writing and I and I would tell them hey I have $24,000.

Well, I guess they're separate lawsuits you were saying. Um, correct. Okay.

Yeah. So, I think getting them down as much as possible obviously would be the goal. Um, and ideally not going into collections and all of that that you kind of just take care of it. Absolutely. And if that's the case, then yeah, you have 4,000. When does the other lawsuit hit? This one's September.

Do you know when the other one will be? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, they've already kind of hit this is obviously aggressive.

So, now it's like going to the trial thing and all this other stuff where I'm going to have to pay Chase. It's already been on my credit. So, like all that stuff's already kind of happened. How long is this?

Oh, sorry. Was it all under your name or is your ex or I guess she's not your ex-wife. Is your wife's name attached to this as well? No, they were all mine.

They were cards that I had prior to our marriage and we've always done good and then we spent a bunch of money and then we tried to get out of debt and then we were doing okay and then COVID hit. We both literally lost our jobs within a week and it was pay mortgage and feed our children or pay this credit card. Well, we chose a home and children. Mhm.

How much are you making a year, John?

Um, I bring in my base salaries 104 and my bonuses um are in the $60 to $80,000 range annually. Okay. And with her, what

does what does she make?

It varies. We own a small business, a food truck business. So, she brings in roughly I would say seven uh

60,000 a year. Okay. And considering you guys are somewhat separated, I don't know if it's, you know, through legal means or not. Have have you guys separated your finances?

Yes, we did that about two or three months prior and that was kind of her like final straw for us, but Okay. her spending was really the issue for me.

So, okay. So, these three accounts, are these the only debts that you're on the hook for? Is there a car? Is there anything else? Because there there is a Cadillac um that we that we purchase together. Um that's her car, not my car.

So, in the divorce, she would get the car. Okay. Kind of the thing. She would get the car pay. I have a truck. It's paid for other than if we were divorced today, the only debt I would have would be the two Chase and the $11,000 credit

card. Okay. And but and but you're making, you know, on a good year 180

plus a year. Yeah. Correct. So I mean,

when I look at these debts and knowing that one of them's going to be settled, you should have this knocked out like lickety split. What's this? What's your living situation?

Uh currently living is she moved out uh Thursday. So literally just two days ago, she moved out. She's living with a friend and her two kids. And I'm living in my house with my two kids. And what

second marriage then for both of you?

Yeah. Yes. Okay. And are you able to cover the mortgage in a way that it's no more than 25% of your takehome without her income added to it? Mortgage is $3,000 a month. So that's not a problem.

Okay, that's great. Yep. So, um, yeah. So, to answer your question of why you called in, for sure it would.

Yeah, I would take the one that had the lawsuit attached to it. Go ahead and knock that out. And then like Jade's saying, I mean, I would cut back on on everything until you get this mess cleaned up. And then I think you do have this kind of fresh start.

But I also I'm I'm cheering on for you guys, you know, that that possibly I heard a little bit of hope there at the beginning of the call. Yeah. Um that you guys can Yeah. I think you do do some work, do some counseling, therapy, and I and I pray that it is reconciled.

I think that's always the best hope for for this. We never want to see, you know, marriages torn apart. And he said part of it was because of her spending. But we do see money issues play into that.

Um, but always you guys remember that those money issues usually is an indicator of something else going on underneath. And that's why having you know professionals on your side to to really dig in to know why.

whether it's medicate or whatever it may be our habits come out sideways. Um, and

when you can get to the root of that of who you are as a person that's really a beautiful thing. So, John, we're we're cheering you guys on. I really do hope that there's reconciliation. Um, but just from the the money standpoint on your side, um, I think you can have a lot of this cleaned up really quickly.

So, I'm thankful you got got back on your feet job-wise since CO because I know that was a a pain point for a lot of people. Absolutely.

difficult, but I think it just drives home the point even more like I've heard Dave say it, marriages need maintenance.

Like, you need that regular the same way you bring your car in for a checkup, you go to the doctor for a physical every year. Like you need a regular rhythm of

let's go see a counselor, like let's just make sure everything's good and let's make sure you know premarital counseling. All those things that are checks and balances to make sure that you're operating at an optimal Yep. safe

level, right, in your marriage. Yep. And we have Dr. John Deloney here on our team, you guys. So check out his content and books because it's kind of in this whole realm of life. This is the Ramsay Show. [Music]

[Music]

Hey. Hey. Hey.

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Up next, we have Kashim in Portland, Oregon. Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel. Thank you for so much for taking the call. Yes, absolutely. How

can we help? Very appreciate it. So, I've been watching Dave Ramsey for the longest time and I love the show and everything that Dave does and you as well. Thank you. My question is um

um I we make good money, my brother and I. We run an assisted living um and we

um have paid off all our consumer debt, no car loans, no student loans. We have

invested into real estate and we have about six uh properties. Um, but for

some reason, you know, it still feels like we're uh paycheck to paycheck

because everything that we make, we uh

invested back into uh real estate. And

then I was wondering, should we maybe stop investing and start paying off like we did with our consumer debt, the cars and student loans, pay off these properties, and then once all of all all

of those properties are paid off, then maybe start investing again with the cash that we would have. Okay. Um, how

much are you guys making a year income wise for you?

Together we make probably about uh

400,000. Okay. So, do you take 200 and

he takes 200?

Yes. Okay. And how much debt is on the six properties total?

It's about uh two 2.5 million. Okay.

Um and oh, also um yeah, sorry, one more thing. U we have 401k and I know um also

we've been investing in 401k for the past two years. So we're thinking maybe

we need to stop that. We do the Mac we max it out for the past two years for both of us. What's your full-time job?

So we're running um that assisted living. It's our own business. Yes.

Okay. That's right you said that. Okay.

So just to clarify all of it together, the income from the assisted living, the income from the properties is the 400,000, right? Not just the properties.

Correct. Okay. So could you I mean I I'm

thinking you know to relieve some of the pressure because you said you feel like you're still living paycheck to paycheck uh and you know making 200 grand. If you're Yeah. If you're making mortgage payments, do you have renters and all the six?

We do. Yeah. the the properties are all cash flowing. Um um but the I mean u

whatever we make in in in the business save it up and then we just go and buy another property. Yeah. So I would I would Yep. So I would pause maybe even

go a step or two backwards possibly just to give you some breathing room. So instead of going and continuing to invest in these properties and taking leverage out on all of them, that's what's causing you to feel so tied down or right like with no margin. So I would

take some of the that income, throw it at some of these properties to pay it off faster and I would cash flow it. So that may even mean uh Kushim to to you

know list out the six and say hey maybe we sell two you know the the equity from the two could help pay for you know pay down some of the the other three and our cash flow because you know we don't mind having real estate. I think it's a great opportunity, but when you are leveraged

in it and you continue to leveraging in it, it's going to eventually eat up your income, right? Because it's not going to be perfect. But having that paid for income, when the income comes in from the rentals and it's all yours, then suddenly you feel like, oh, we're making the money that I feel like we should be making, right? I mean, you have $2.5 million worth of rental properties, you should feel like we're doing really good, but it's it's not it's not working out that way. No. Yeah. It seems like,

you know, on the paper we have a lot, but then, you know, kind of cash broke.

Yep. So, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So, I would I would free up um I would be okay with you keeping a couple of them, you

know, knowing that, hey, we're going to we're going to snowball this and pay them off quickly because did you guys get them a few years ago or have you gotten them recently?

A few years ago. We started back in like 2022 and then the last one we just purchased this year. Yep. So, I would I would stop purchasing and again, yeah, I I would I would sell a couple of them, but I would list them out and say, "Hey, here's what they're worth. Here's what we owe on them. What's smart to do this?" I know you're doing this all with your brother.

Yes. Okay. Are both of your names on the on the notes?

We Yes. Okay. So, would that be something that he's willing to do as well?

Yes, actually he's sitting here listening to um we um yeah, we started

together. We're doing things u you know together and actually he's the one that got on the phone and uh calling to the show actually. Okay.

Okay. Well, we have a little bit of time. Uh Kashim, I would be interested.

Do you do you have the numbers off the top of your head of what each property is worth and how much you owe on them?

Yes, I can look it up.

here in a second. Um, and also

what I can say regarding the 401k, should we keep investing into that 401k?

Yes, I would. You know, as you said, pause it. Yeah. No, I would. Yeah, I would keep going.

Okay. Because that's going to be that's going to be a consistent. Yep.

Did you say you wanted the Yeah, let's go through them. Let's go through them one by one.

Okay. So, first one is a condo. We owe

150. Um, and then another one is a

house. Uh, what's the the one that's before you go? The one that's 150. What could you sell it for?

Um, probably like 250, 260. Okay,

perfect. Keep going. And then another

one is we owe 230. That one is about 410

420 right now. Okay. Okay. And then we

have a candle. Uh we owe 450 and that

one is about 600. Okay. Okay. And then

we have another condo or a duplex.

Duplex u we owe 340 and that one is like

five. Okay. And then we have our primary

houses but not selling those. Okay. That

was the two part two. Now on the primary mortgages, you you are the only person on your mortgage and he's the only person on his mortgage, right? Correct.

Okay. So, I mean, Rachel, I I know what I'm thinking right off the bat. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm probably, you know, and again, you can rearrange some of these.

I would take the ones that are probably in better condition, less hassle, ones that are in better part of the city that you can rent out that's more stable. But you could sell two of these, you know, rearrange some of the numbers because you and have two paid for properties um there. And I would and I I know you and your brother are doing this together, but my advice, you probably won't take it, Kashim, is is to do it, you know, individually.

But that's just my two cents. But well, there's part of that cuz here's the thing. If you were in this deal alone, my first thing would be like, hey, okay, for instance, property number three, it's a duplex. I don't know what side of town it's in, but I'm thinking, okay, it's more work to rent it out. It's two places. Um, and you owe the most on it,

and the gain is pretty decent. So, I'm like, okay, I'd probably go for that one first, just based on little knowledge here. But I'd want to then take that money and pay off my personal residence before I reach over and do properties.

But since you're in this with your brother, it doesn't necessarily work that way. So that's kind of just one of the ways that it muddies the water a little bit on this. But that being said, you could still reach over. You could pay off the one property number two probably if you made that sale and then property number four if you sold it and you cleared out property number one.

There's a lot of options here. There's a lot of options. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I think you could make one or two moves here. And I think what that would do again is if you have two paid for properties, you're getting rental income, and then you and your wife say, "Hey, our next goal is to pay off our primary home." Because how much do you owe on your primary?

Um, about 340. Okay. And uh, it's worth

about 730 740. We bought it back in

2017. Okay, that's great. Yeah. So, yeah, you can go down the steps there.

Or if you want to go real crazy, which I don't think you'll probably will, you could sell everything and put some of this towards towards your primary. But but again, I think you and your brother can sit down and just say, "Hey, what what are the, you know, the properties that we're confident in?" And I think you can keep, you know, maybe two of them, sell two, rearrange some of this, and I think it's going to relieve it because you guys are kind of playing the game. And cuz you guys are smart. So honestly, at the end of the day, once you have all this kind of cleaned up and and you guys are making a better income, then take your time and save cuz some of these, you know, you bought for 150, there's still deals out there.

I mean, you can still go and and and you know, buy something crappy and fix it up, put some money into it, and rent it. So, that's still a possibility, but just doing it with cash is going to give you less stress, which is what we want for you.

Heat.

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Heat.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We're going to the phones and we have Jake in Houston calling next. Hey Jake, welcome to the show. Hi. How are you guys doing today? We're doing great. How can we help?

So, um I have a chronic condition and

I'm currently on baby step six. Um but I

do not have any life insurance for my wife and family and I'm having trouble getting life insurance and so I'm wondering if I should be putting money aside uh since I don't have the life insurance option. It's really kind of Yeah. What's

what's the condition? Can I ask? I'd really rather not. My doctor says I have about 10 more years of working time before I be really really in a critical position. Oh, I'm so so sorry.

That's right.

He either healed in this life or the next. So, yeah. That's right. Well, you've put yourself in a really good position with your family. So, kudos to you there. And I know they're going to be very grateful. The fact that you're in baby step six is amazing. So, that tells me that you don't have debt. You guys have got a significant level of savings, which is nice. And I'm guessing you've been investing all this time. Can I ask like do you have a nest egg? We do. We have a $1.4 million nest egg.

Okay. Wow.

We um I make about 180,000

um base pay and then about 150,000 bonuses. Wow. Um, so

great income, but um, all of our money

is in retirement accounts. So, Mhm. And

how old are you and your wife? I'm 39

and my wife is 42. Okay. Do you guys have kids? I have one child. Yes. Okay.

Um, what is is she working or is she staying home? She stays at home. Okay.

Uh, how much do you guys have left on the house to pay off?

340,000.

340. Okay. And what's your timeline on paying off the house when you've talked to with your wife? When do you think it'll be done? About 3 years if we put

all of our excess income towards the house. Okay. And about seven years where

I've got to be totally ready for medical and retirement, everything, you know.

You said you've got seven years until you feel like you need to be totally ready. Is that what you said? Yep. 10 years total. If I if it takes you three years to pay off the house now, then seven years after that to save for everything else. Okay. Will you be able to bring in I know you said well you'll have to stop working probably two years.

Um does that mean physically going to a location or will you still be bringing in income at that point or probably not?

Um stopping working 10 years. I'm sorry.

Oh, 10 years. I thought you said two. So 10 years. Okay. That's way I'm I'm happy to hear that. Okay. Um, so the good news

is, you know, you the first problem was, hey, I don't have life insurance. But the good news is you're going to be self-insurable.

You you've set you and your your wife have set your family up in a really really great way. Um, cuz the thought

here is, and I'm not even running any numbers. I just know that a lump sum is going to double every seven years. And the point that you already have 1.4 4 million and then there's this 10-year horizon and you know you're making over

$300,000 a year and the the house is

going to pay it off. You're not going to have a payment in the world. And so I think that your wife is going to be okay. Um what I would do is I'd probably

sit down with a Smart Invest Pro uh because I want to make sure to your point that she's able to access the money she needs even if it's before her being 59 and a half. Correct. Yeah. cuz

I'm thinking if you know um 10 years

from now she will be yeah 52. So

there'll be about that 7-year gap. But I do wonder um Jake because you guys are

making such great money. Do you foresee yourself making around that 300 330,000

a year for the next 10 years if not going up or do you see it going down at all because of health issues? Um it'll it'll continue to go up. So luckily I am an engineer so I can work remotely or I

have all the option to do. Yeah. So if you think about it Jake if you guys pay off this home in three years which is what I would do you would have seven years left of working of making that amount of money you guys could stash away so much just in a high yield savings account you know that she could um that you guys can live off of after you stop working for that time that sevenish years um between retirement

age. And then once you guys hit that age, you'll be able to access. Yeah. I mean, like you said, it's going to be over three, four, it'll be $4 million by that point. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And a Smart Investor Pro is going to help you figure out like that best bridge. Is it a high yield savings? Is it a brokerage account? Is it another vehicle that you're able to get to that money, but it can also still have some some gain on it. Um a decent amount of gain. Uh yeah.

Hey, I hate that this situation is what

it is, but you're a great dad and a great husband for setting this up with your family.

Thank you.

Truly. Yeah. Wow. Jake, thank you for calling. If you stay on the line, Christian is going to pick up and maybe we can um hook you up. Yeah. With a Smart Ver Pro um and we'll help you show you like exactly where to look, get a couple of names so you can call them and kind of just see who you're comfortable with. Um, but I'm with Jade. I'm praying nothing. I I pray for healing on the side of heaven for you and your family and um I'm so sorry. And you know, it's

one of those things that when life there are things we just we can't control. You know, health is for sure one of those.

And and on this show, we get we get that call a lot of just um you know, things happen. And one of the best ways it doesn't make it better um but it does bring a level of peace in an area of life is when you have your money under control. Mh. And so that's um and when you've set your family up that worst case scenario, yes, I know everything's covered.

And I mean, these are the reasons that we teach.

That's right. That's right. Nope. You know, no one predicts it. Yeah. Oh, Jake, we're praying for you and your family. Thanks. I'm so glad you called.

I hope that helped. Up next, we have Ken in Witchah. Hey, Ken. Welcome to the show.

Hey, Rachel. Uh, appreciate all that, uh, you, your dad, and the, uh, Ramsay, uh, personalities do. You guys are a true blessing.

Had a question today. Uh, hoping you could pressure test, uh, something regarding my pension. So, my my wife and I are FPU grads, uh, debtree, including the house. Um, I was laid off uh, about

3 weeks ago. I'm 55. And since um I'll

I'll be separating from the company, uh I can start taking the pension now. Um

and if I do that and I plug those numbers into Excel, it seems to me like I'd be crazy to not start taking it at 55 versus waiting till 62, even though the numbers are higher because uh my calculations show it be 19 years

uh for it to catch up if I wait till 62 versus taking it now. um and investing it at 8% like I would assume Dave would say. Yeah. Uh it never catches up. So, am I crazy to start taking it at 55 versus waiting till 62?

No, I don't think you're I don't think you're crazy. And especially if you do something with that money that helps both, you know what I mean? To to grow it, right? So, even if you put it somewhere that you're going to be making more than if it sits in that pension, I think that's ideal. Um, so how are you?

Um, do you guys need it to live off of or you're just thinking because of the math, might as well take it now because we'll be able to to get more out of it.

Yeah, totally a math situation.

Obviously, I've I've I've got to go find another job, but we're uh in good shape on that. I'm employable and and and we'll do that. Um, but just talking to some peers that are in the same situation from this layoff, um, they

were like, "Hey, why would you take it now?" But I'm I'm just I'm an Excel guy.

So I plugged it in there and then use the investment calculator at 8% and I'm just like, man, because you're thinking you're going to turn around and and reinvest that money. Is that what you're thinking? True. True. That's that's the plan. But even if you don't um just the raw numbers the seven years uh in order

to make up that seven years of withdrawals it would take 19 years and put me at like 81 before uh it would

catch up if I started taking at 62. So I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Um, I know the taxes

might be a little bit different when I'm retired, that type of thing, but um, it just seems like take it now is is

mathematically the way to go. And I've always heard Dave say, you know, it the pension, you know, it's not yours until it's yours.

So, in the hopper type thing. That's right. Yeah. The good thing about it is it puts you back in control of what you do with it, even if you're going to go back and and reinvest it.

And and the truth is too, Ken, you've done such a great job that I mean, you're you guys are completely debtree. Like, if you take it now or you take it six years, you're going to be okay. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think you're going to make this dire mistake.

But anytime you can get money, even in a lump sum, in some situations, putting it back in your control, you're usually better off than leaving it somewhere else. So, I hope that helps.

Our [Music]

[Music]

scripture today comes from 1 Timothy 6:18.

Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. Shondaanda Rime says, "Be a doer, not a dreamer." Good deal. I

appreciate that. Put some stuff into action, people. Put some stuff into action. I know. That's right. All right.

Going to the phones. We have Sarah in Fort Meyers. Hey, Sarah. Welcome to the show. Hi, ladies. Thanks so much for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

Um, so I'm looking for a bit of direction. Um, the long story short is I

just found the Ramsay Show uh the podcast a couple months ago uh when I was pregnant uh with our first child.

Yay. Yeah, congratulations.

Yeah, thank you. Uh he's two months old now and he's absolutely beautiful. Um my

question is um when I was six months

pregnant um my husband was laid off from his job uh which was extremely stressful. Um we had a lot of medical complications with my pregnancy and then with the delivery as well. Um and when

he was laid off we ended up having to pay an arm and a leg to extend our insurance policy through the former employer. So, we unfortunately had to burn through what little savings we had um to afford that. And now we're pretty much starting from scratch with a newborn. And um my husband is um really

wanting to try to pay off our credit cards and get our debt down. And I'm

trying to decide if we should try to put more money towards our emergency fund, which we don't have now. Um I'm going

back to work kind of part-time. So, I'm trying to decide if I need to go back full-time. Should we sell one of our cars? I don't know. I'm looking You've got a lot on your mind. Stories online.

You've got a lot on your mind. I mean, the good news is you did what we tell people to do when you were pregnant. You stacked up because you don't know what's going to happen. And so, you went into stor mode and you needed what you saved up. And so, no guilt on that. You don't need to be feeling bad. Um, sometimes people go through their emergency fund and they feel guilty that they used it.

And I'm like, no, that's what it was there for. And so, you did right, but

now that the storm is over and the baby

is here, now you can get back onto the baby steps. And yeah, it's getting that $1,000 back saved again. And, you know, to your husband's point, whatever the smallest debt is, if it's the credit cards, how much debt do you guys have?

Uh, well, we have two car loans. Um altogether our debt is probably between

35 and 40 between the two cars and then some credit card and then of course the medical. So um tell me the real numbers so we can really see.

Yeah. So on his car uh we owe about uh

14,000.

My car we owe about 21 I believe. His

car just Yeah. 21,000. Um we just

started having some mechanical issues with his car. So we were considering selling that because it is worth right about what we owe on it. So we thought about going down to one car. Yeah. Um which we could do. It would be a challenge, but we could do it. I love that. With the baby, it's a little tricky, but um we could try to find a way. The hard part is my husband's job.

He's he's really not loving it. He's exhausted emotionally from the pregnancy and all the medical stuff that I went through. He sorry he was really scared. It was a lot to handle and now um he's considering

changing careers because he just he's he

he absolutely hates the field that he's in. So we're on this a little bit instability storm right now. I would

press cash is really hard. I would press pause for a second because you guys have just come through a a unknown difficult season, right? It was the layoff, then the baby came, then there was no insurance. So, there's part of this where I would love to create just a a quick sense of like we're getting our bearings. We've got our bearings before we add another big change into the mix cuz that would have mean he just got this new job, right? Yeah. He's he's

we've only just been on the insurance this month for the new place. Yeah. He's only been there. He had to wait like 90 days or something. And don't get me wrong, like I'm all for happy I'm all for people being happy in their work, but we need to just cool out for a second. Like, let's get this baby home.

Let's get our heads around what the financial picture is, and then that can decide what we need to do going forward because, and I mean, I I I get it.

Everybody wants to be happy at work, but there could be a period of time where he's like, I'm doing this because I need to do this to get the family on good footing and then I'll be able to go and and pursue more of what I want to do. So the 14,000 car, 21,000 car Well, I was

going to just add to that, Sarah, that usually when there's some level of like a traumatic experience, which it kind of sounds like y'all walk through, don't make knee-jerk reactions. And we say this if someone's had a death close to them or um you know if something big

happens in life that really kind of takes you out emotionally. Making big moves in life is not smart. So waiting

before he quits and all of this like I I would so I echo Jade for sure. And for you guys Yeah. That um because how much is he making now?

Uh he makes about 85 but he's I I'm not

so much concerned about him quitting.

He's He is totally in the mindset of I need to provide for my family. I'll do what I have to do. Yeah. Plus, he wouldn't quit until he had something else lined up. Right. Exactly. But he's

afraid that they're going to let him go again. And I think he's got a little bit of PTSD from being laid off previously, which wasn't any fault of his, but the

the the company that he's at now, like the new job that was supposed to kind of stabilize, it's it's not really a good fit the way the business is set up. So, I'm sorry. What type of work does he do?

Uh he works in accounting and financial analyst positions u mostly for home builders and construction firms. So being the numbers guy, he's tracking all the mistakes. He finds a lot of things that are wrong and everybody thinks he's the bad guy and it's just kind of the way that the industry goes, I think.

Okay. Well, even more reason then for you guys to really get laser focused on this debt because that's what's creating instability and a lot of risk in your life. So, um, aside from the cars, which I love the idea if you can break even on one of these, even if, uh, you go and you buy something a lot cheaper in cash, I like that idea if if having a one car family doesn't work.

So, I would say, okay, let's push pause on the baby steps, get that thousand there. Um, do you have any more money left in savings above a thousand?

Uh, not really. Okay, that's fine. I think he has Yeah, he he has a Roth I think he

set up a few years ago that's got a little bit in it, but No, don't touch that. I meant liquid savings. Okay. No.

So, yeah, you're listing them smallest to largest, and you guys are getting on the same page. you're sitting down tonight and going, "Okay, we've been through a lot. It's time for us to make this right. We've got a family now.

Let's clean up our mess and let's decide that moving forward, we're going to move methodically. We're going to make decisions together. We're going to get out of debt." And I mean, kudos to you.

Cheers on a brand new life. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's it's a mixture. We're

absolutely in love with our baby boy.

He's healthy. Praise God. It was a really stressful time getting through all those issues. So, we're thankful, but we're also trying to find a way to

start looking up, you know, it just seems like one thing after another and then the car breaks, you know, and then the, you know, the boss doesn't like it or, you know, whatever. It just seems one thing after another. So, I'm just kind of looking for some peace of mind for a few weeks at least. For sure. So,

yeah. And you'll find too, Sarah, you know, life in general and then you throw kids in the mix and this is it magnifies this too. But it it's if it does it can feel like seasons of life, it's like two steps forward, three steps back, one step forward, two steps back. Oh my gosh. And then and then a rhythm another

season hits and it's like, wow, this is a peaceful season and we're thankful for this and then something else happens, right? I mean, it's just it is the rhythm of life and you guys are experiencing that uh but in big ways. I mean, kids, job, I mean, these are big adult things, right? that you that you feel.

So, I think um getting some control around the money I think is going to give you a level of peace even if the debt is still there. Just being on the same page with your husband, knowing here's how much we're spending on groceries. Here's what like there's just a plan in place and it allows you to pour that energy into something. Yes, that's right.

Into something else.

For sure. And I do and I and we hear you loud and clear. And I think a goal would eventually be for him to be in a great environment working. Yeah. You don't want to work for a jerk, you know, for so long. So, right, we're all about that, too. Yeah. So, great. Well, thanks for the call, Sarah. We really appreciate it. Thanks to all the gentlemen in the booth. Thank you, Jade, for being great co-host. And thank you, America, for listening. Remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.

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## 44. Don’t Let Money Chaos Run Your Life | February 16, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:45:01 |

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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Ramsay personality Jade Warshaw. and [music] we're taking your calls at88255225.

Arley is going to kick [music] us off in New York City. What's going on, Arley?

>> Hello. >> Did I get that right? Is it Arley?

>> Yes, it is.

>> What's happening? >> Um, so, um, when I was around like 20 to

21 years old, I had a pretty good credit score of like 800. And then my mom kind

of guilt tripped me into being a co-signer for one of her cars. And um

then the following year uh there was a

second car that I was unknowingly signed

into when we refinanced the first car.

And I think about 2 years after that,

I've um both cars have been repossessed.

>> Oh. >> And the first car was um there's a

judgment on that car and it's under my name. >> Oh boy. >> And I guess and there's a also a

personal loan that my mom kind of made me take out around the same time.

>> What do you mean made you? Yeah. What's that? Are you against your will? like, >> "Well, she guilt tripped me into doing all of that." >> Yeah, but you're you're a grown person at 21 years old.

>> Yes, of course. I like I understand that. But I guess like culturally speaking, it was always >> you can't um >> like I've done so much for you. I need you to do this for me. And you just went, "Okay, fine." >> Exactly. >> Exactly. And it was like non-stop. So

essentially after all of this, we're like 20k in

debt just on my mom alone. And I guess

I'm trying to like figure out how to move on from one getting these two cars

off of my name and like you know paying

I guess paying it out. >> Yeah. Um because I just recently got

married and me and my husband haven't been able to join our account >> because of this major issue. So

>> absolutely kind of like >> want to find a way >> I'm 26. Okay.

>> Oh, okay. So this has been a while back.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> But I think the repo just happened like about uh two years. And >> what are they coming after you for for that for for both repos? Tell us the amount for both. >> So the first car um well the major car

was uh 10 10,000.

>> Okay. >> That's the deficit that you owe.

>> Yes. Okay. >> After it got auctioned off. >> What about the second one?

>> The second one is 8,000.

>> Okay. So the good news is you're going to settle both of these. You're not going to pay the full amount because it's been forever. They'll be happy to get anything from you at this point.

>> Okay. >> So, do you have any contact with your mom anymore?

[clears throat] >> Um, we do, but unfortunately, um, I

don't really trust anything she says.

>> Rightfully so. >> For the so for the sole reason that

January of last year of 2025, she

actually like moved to another state.

And we came to find out that she kind of owed a lot of people a lot of money and it came to around like a total of like 50 close to 100k in just like personal

loans like under the table. And this

year I kind of talked to her or last end of last year I talked to her to try to settle the personal loans pay.

>> Let's talk about let's talk about you go. Let's imagine that she's not going to help you solve any of this and your name's on the debt and so they don't care about where she is and if she's going to refi into her name. You just need to act like this is debt I took on and I got to clean the mess up. >> Mhm. And it's a learning experience. So I'd be looking to set settle these for, you know, 50 40 to 50% of the the actual

amount owed. That's what I'd start with.

And so that would be your goal to save up that cash cuz anytime you're going to settle a debt, you've got to have the cash in hand ready. Lump sum. Yep. And you want to get it all all those stipulations in writing and you you really want to laminate it and keep it forever because you never want these things to come back and bite you in the butt. How much is the personal loan? Is that another 2 or 3,000?

>> Yeah, 2,000. >> Okay. So 2,000 on the personal loan. How much do you and your husband earn every month? >> Um we every month would be about

67,000.

>> Okay. And is he on board uh in the idea

that we're gonna clean up this mess >> or do you feel like it's kind of on you to do it on your own?

>> I I think personally I don't want him to

take on the burden.

>> H can I tell you this personally? I don't think you're going to be able to clean this mess up on your own.

>> No, I know. But I think he does listen to the Ramsay show, so I do know that he he'll be willing to >> settle this with me. If the tables were turned, you would you be willing to help him? >> Of course. >> Okay, there you go. So, as long as you know that you're not asking more of someone than you would want asked of yourself, then I think it's okay that you participate that you receive that if

he's willing to do this with you, which I think he should, by the way. >> The hardest part is going to be swallowing your pride and and going, you know what? I know I feel guilty and shame about this, but I'm going to bring him in cuz this is marriage.

>> Yeah. No, she actually helped me because

um when we first got married, we settled I think about 2,000 of credit card loans that my mom also racked up. So >> Oh man. >> Okay. Has any of this been done fraudulently?

>> Because she's not able to just like forge your signature. It sounds like you were there. You at least signed some documents on most of these loans.

>> So the like I said the first car was her car that she was driving and I was helping her. >> You co-signed. So, that one's legit.

>> I did the second car. I didn't cosign.

That one I did cosign.

>> I did cosign, but what happened was when

I went to the dealer, they told me it was a refinance. When it came out, like

I think 6 months down the line where we

were getting like these late payments, they were telling me, "Oh, it's the car that I took out from my cousin and you are co-signed." And I was like, I was never informed of this. But by then they told me it was too late to to back out of it. >> Okay. Do you guys have any other debt outside of this 20k?

>> No. Uh student loan debt.

>> How much? How much? >> I I have about 16k and my husband has

about uh 9K.

>> Okay. Promise me, make me a promise that you have learned your lesson.

>> Not just not just in cosigning but really in borrowing money in general.

Look how much heartache and pain this has caused. This is literally, and don't get me wrong, this is >> uh if I were to assign blame, which I'm not usually in the habit of doing, but most of this is on your mother, okay?

Cuz she she was there there is an im

imbalance of power there when you're 18, 21 years old and a and a parent is saying you need to do this, you need to do that. You do feel the overwhelming need that either they're right or that you should be listening to them even if you shouldn't be. So, I hate that that happened, but this is such a learning opportunity for you. No more debt, no more cosigning. you pay this off. Never again is really the line in the sand that you need to draw.

>> Have you frozen your credit with all three bureaus, Arley?

>> Uh, no I haven't. I >> You need to do that yesterday. And while you're at it, pull all all three credit reports from the bureaus. You can go to annualcreditreport.com.

Do it for free. Never pay for this. You need a full picture cuz who knows what else is out there before we can move forward and do this debt snowball and settle these debts. Let's get a real full picture of what's going on and freeze your credit so nobody, you or your mom, can be opening up debt in your name ever again.

That's right. Wishing you the best.

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[music]

Barbara's in New York City. Up next, Barbara, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can Jade and I help today? >> So, my question is, how can I convince my husband to comi com combine our finances?

>> How long you been married? >> We um we're coming up on 12 years.

>> That's a long time to now start this conversation. >> How long have you been >> How long have you been trying to do this? >> So, several years now. So when we got

married, um I I made significantly less

and he actually purchased the house a few months before he proposed.

So it's and I really feel like it's his house. So that's the other part of the conversation trying to convince him to put my name on the deed and all and the mortgage. Um so I feel like we're and I bring it up every so often and say, "Hey, you know, maybe we should be doing this." I I mean I worked hard to better

myself. So I when we got married I made

about 35,000 which isn't very much. And

then >> why does it matter if you made a dollar or $100,000? >> I I I'm I'm shook by that. I feel like this is like you're trying to prove that you're worthy of being next to his name

by you getting yourself together.

>> Did you set a benchmark like hey once you hit 50 grand then we'll talk.

I [clears throat] kind of feel like we have to be equals in terms of how we how

much we earn because he >> right I don't wait it's that's the footing we got off on he divided up the bills based on the percentage of what we make so based on how much I made I covered the bills according to that >> okay >> and so on and you know slowly I've increased what I contribute you know

household repairs and all that stuff >> right right So, this is really, really, really unhealthy. I'm sorry, but it it is. And I I think you're right. You guys got off you got off on the wrong foot and it just set the tone for the next 12 years. And it started to you started to

believe that that you >> you are your percentage and you're worth whatever percentage you're contributing and vice versa.

>> And that is going to take a lot of time to tear down. Honestly, it sounds like kind of in both of you cuz I think you're starting to see, "Yeah, I need to we probably should do this." But it's also like you're fighting that old mentality. So, when you bring it to him and you say, "This is I feel like this

is destroying our marriage and here's how and it's making me feel less than and I'm just scared that this is going to drive us further and further apart." >> What's his response?

>> It gets defensive.

So, >> and are you saying it's on him or are you saying we both did this thing?

>> I'm, you know, thinking back, I'm

probably putting a little too much on him, like, hey, we cuz because it feels like everything belongs to him. The house belongs to him, you know, >> but you also participated in that. So, I think >> approaching it, you know, approaching it in the way of we set out, and this is honestly probably exactly along the lines of what I would say if I were in your shoes. >> 12 years ago, we got married.

We decided that this is how we were going to do finances and I agreed to that.

years. And in the past couple of years, I've really started seeing that um it's

not it feels like it's driving us apart.

And you may not be aware of it on your end, but it's something I'm sensing. And I just feel like it's if we don't address it, it's going to get worse and worse. And I would love for us to talk

about ways that we can change the way we're viewing money to where there's complete transparency. We're both equal and we're both, you know, a part of it.

And maybe that will open him up to go, okay, she's she's trying to she's trying to come towards me. She's not trying to say this at me and tell me that it's my fault, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. I think Yeah, probably without meaning to making it sound like it's all on him. So, >> yeah, >> that can go a long way. Listen, even if it was on all on him, it's a long way.

>> There's things that he is not telling you. >> And I don't know if this is coming out of, you know, baggage he had growing up with money, why he wants control, why he wants to protect himself. Did he have a previous marriage? What do you think is behind this? >> No. Well, um I honestly don't know entirely.

I know his parents went through a bad marriage. Um and

I I don't know if that's part of it, but it does feel like he's very guarded with his money and he wants to protect it and he's, you know, he's got businesses and

he buys cars whenever he and all of a sudden he wants and it's kind I don't have a say in it because it's his money and he you know >> Yeah. You have a you have a roommate that you signed a contract with essentially.

>> And I'm sorry that's not fun. It's not healthy. And I don't know if I I'm not here to define someone as a narcissist, but it's giving narcissist. It's giving emotional abuse. And he's making you feel less than. You own nothing. And you should be lucky you get to live in my house. >> That's not good. Do you have kids?

>> No, we don't. We I became nervous early

on and decided not to and he went right along with it. So, we agreed together.

Well, I guess we didn't agree. It was more like I was apprehensive and he was like, "Whatever you want." >> Okay. Okay. So, no children to speak of.

Yeah. This is >> my guess is he would he would never agree to go to counseling with you, would he? >> No. No. I've asked

um >> Can you go on your own or would you have to ask him for permission for allowance money to go?

>> No. Uh I've been going I go on my own

and um >> Good. >> I hadn't brought this situation up though. >> Why not? >> I talk about everything else around >> this would be the number one situation I would bring up.

>> Right. >> This is the main thing in your life right now. And you're calling us for for advice on this. I don't know how to convince your husband because I don't know that he can be convinced at this point because he has convinced himself that he is the king of the house and you should be lucky to live in his castle.

>> And honestly, there seems like there's no bent there there hasn't been any um

consequence for his action for lack of a better word. It's kind of like he gets to do whatever he wants and there's no nothing comes back on him as a reason to change.

>> Nope. Um [clears throat] I guess I felt like it was just a money issue.

>> No, it's not. It's a respect respect issue. He's not seeing you as a a person, a full person who's contributing and valuable and all the things that he should see you as.

>> Think about it. This marriage, any relationship is built on two things, trust and respect, >> right? >> And you don't have either of those from him. And I don't know that you ever did.

I don't know how this marriage started and how we got here, but you need to reset conversation with him and use eye

statements and make it about you and say, "Listen, I want better for us. I want unity in this marriage. I didn't sign up to be a roommate here. I want transparency, not because I don't trust you, but because I think I deserve a vote, >> and for too long, I felt like I didn't."

What would he say to that? Would he get defensive and shut down?

>> Yes. Yes. I think that's very telling, Barbara, of what your next step should be. >> How are you doing? Like, let's talk

about it the way you guys talk about it, which is your finances are separate. How are you doing financially?

>> Um, I'm doing much better. Um, I've, you

know, worked hard to increase my own income and I have, you know, money set aside and I, you know, I listen to you guys and I set up my savings and, you know, six months and all that and I invest in my 401k and all that. Um but

um just talking about that like just thinking about it and like just listening to you guys I do kind of just feel like a house sitter. >> Yeah. >> You know I >> rightfully so. I mean for all intents and purposes that's kind of the placement you guys have put you in.

>> Yeah. >> And it's totally fine that you are saying >> this is not okay >> and I'm not going to do this anymore.

And if I were in your shoes, you know, I'm no counselor, that's for sure. But if I were in your shoes, I'd be making some pretty strong statements about what I am and not going to do and what I am and not going to put up with.

>> Right? >> You know what I'm saying? Like I I >> I'm not sure he's seen Barbara's backbone, and I think he's about to see it. >> For someone who's been offered counseling, for someone who's been offered the opportunity to sit down and talk for compromise, and they've turned away all of that. Now, I'm going to tell you what I'm about to do >> and what my terms are. [laughter] And that's THAT'S WHAT I WOULD DO. I'D BE LIKE, "OKAY, enough is enough." And here you're about to see the smoke.

>> And Barbara, great exercise for you is think about if this was your friend and she called you and said, "Hey, this is my situation." What would you honestly tell that friend? >> Maybe write down a journal tonight as if you were writing a letter to that friend and then read it back to yourself and go, "Oh, this is for me. These are the steps I need to go take because I deserve that. You deserve to live a life.

You don't deserve to be in a prison with this guy, right? And [music] so I don't know that we can change him, but I do know that you can make some changes for yourself. And that might be the healthiest move for what's next.

[music]

>> [music]

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[music]

[music] If you have a simple tax situation, like you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, check out Ramsey Smart Tax. It's affordable, it keeps filing simple, and it has built-in support in case you need a little help.

And filing early means getting the best deals and you get that tax stress off your shoulders. So, as soon as you get all your tax documents, go to ramiesolutions.com/smartax and start filing. And guess what, Jade?

>> What's up? >> Guess what I'm doing on Valentine's Day. >> I don't want to know, George.

>> Getting my taxes done with my tax pro.

>> It's not what I expected. >> We're going on a date after. >> I'm mad at I'm mad at you for this.

>> All the restaurants are booked up, but my tax guy was free and I said, "All right, let's make it a date." >> I need to text Whitney. Give me her number. say she deserves better. [laughter] Don't worry, we're going to get get some chips and margaritas after. >> All right, there you go. >> All right, Lisa is in Hartford, Connecticut, up next. What's going on, Lisa? >> Hi. >> How can we help today?

>> I am um 58 years old. I have $60,000

worth of state tax debt. I have $60,000

worth of credit card debt. I'm a single mom with two college age kids. And I am trying to figure out if I should file for bankruptcy. I have another um $10,000 that I owe the IRS. I came to a

settlement with them. So um I guess it's about now $70,000 in total tax debt.

>> How did that happen?

>> Um well, I um I'm a single mom and when

I got divorced, I didn't make smart decisions with my alimony. Um I tried to keep my kids like in the same um you know, like I didn't I didn't make any changes. I wanted them I didn't want them to feel like the the divorce and so I lived way beyond my means. Um, I also, um, went into recovery, so I was, you know, kind of white knuckling raising them and I did a lot of spending out of like parental guilt trying to like make up for time that I'd lost.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. Understood.

So, what what's the what's the case now? What are you doing for work? What are you earning? >> I have I have a great job.

Um, I make about $105,000 as an administrative assistant. Um, >> I have a side like I have I also work for the same um family at a farm on the weekends.

my, you know, I just just got the the

dollars app to figure out what's going wrong when I'm spending more than I can afford, you know, in rent and even the basic things. >> How much is your rent? >> Um, it's $3,500.

>> Oh, girlfriend. And are you bringing home like six or seven? What's the take-home pay? >> My takehome is 66 thou? Yeah. 6,600 and

then another um,000 approximately when I

do my other job. >> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. So, yeah, this is the

problem. Uh, the rent is Have you looked into things that I mean, you're in Hartford, that's an expensive area. Have you looked into >> other options? I mean, what are you living in right now?

What is the nature of your house? Is it a two-bedroom? What is >> right now? Yeah, I'm in a two-bedroom apartment.

And I moved out of like the town I raised my kids in and I moved into a less expensive area, but it's still very expensive. I'm I'm currently looking like I was trying to keep, you know, one my one of my kids has graduated, but one of my kids still comes home and I still have that need to like have a bedroom for you.

You got to stop. >> It's an air mattress in the living room. >> Yeah. You got to stop this mess because that that feeling of having to make everything all right for them is what got you in $130,000 of debt. So, you got

to stop today. They're grown. They love you. You don't have to prove it. It's it's it's inherent. Okay.

>> You being a burden because they have to cover mom's expenses for the rest of her life because she's broke is so much worse. >> Come on, George. >> Than them sleeping on an air mattress cuz mom can't afford $3,500 in rent, which is totally reasonable.

>> What's your commute right now? And how how how far can we get you out of town to get this in the >> right now? Is great. Like I'm I'm I'm 10 minutes from my job. >> Then this is the problem. Yeah, >> we got to get you out into the country where where rent is $1,000 a month for a onebedroom. >> Yes. >> Okay. And I'm I'm laughing, but I'm being serious. Uh your rent is going to keep you from freedom here.

>> So, your first order of business while everybody else is going out for Valentine's Day, you're going to be on the computer searching for a new place.

When's your lease up?

>> Um it's up in June.

>> Okay, perfect. >> Perfect. Yeah, it is. Yeah, perfect.

That gives you time to find the spot. It

gives you time to tell your kids, "Hey, we're moving." And that's wonderful.

>> Think about it. You went down to 1,500 instead of 3500. That's two grand a month you could be throwing at your debt. >> Yeah, that's that's I I've been looking for an apartment.

I have been looking I've downsized my look to one-bedroom apartment. Good. >> And there's I I think you're right. I think I have to expand my commute distance because I'm still hitting a wall with prices.

You have to if it's this or bankruptcy, I'll take a 20 minute commute, a 25 minute commute >> because that bankruptcy will destroy your financial life at least for the next seven years, which puts you into your mid60s by the time you can even recover. >> Now, what what about your car? Do you have a car payment?

I'm making my son's car payment right now. >> No, Lisa, [laughter] I know your name is

not on it. >> Just graduated. I know. He just graduated from >> Is your name on it?

>> Yes. >> What? Why? Why? Why? Why? Okay, so >> this is fun. Then you get to say, "Hey, son. I got to sell this car." >> Yes. >> Hope you enjoyed driving it. >> Yes. >> Tell him it was basically a rental. Hope you enjoyed driving the rental.

>> George has never been more right. But you have to do it >> right. >> How much is the car worth?

>> I It's 17,000 maybe.

>> And how much do you owe on it? >> It's lease. So the car the car that he has is >> Oh no, that's even worse cuz you can't get out of this thing unless you have the lump sum to do a full buyout, >> right? >> When's the lease up? >> Well, he could take the payments over.

>> He could When is it up?

>> I have to look. I'm not sure. I think it's another year. >> Is he working?

>> He just started a job. He just started an internship. So yes. >> Okay. So, um I would have that conversation. I'd say, "Son, uh I made a mistake and I'm really sorry. I because it's going to affect both of us. I agreed to pay this lease.

I can't afford it. I'm over here struggling. Um >> this lease is good for one more year. We either need to you either need to take this on completely.

If you can't afford it, I'll pay whatever little >> bitty portion that you can't afford to pay, but this is going to and and put it in George's words, if I don't fix myself now, I will end up being a burden to you later on in a greater way. And I don't want that. and hopefully he can understand that.

Um and I'm glad that you called in because I think that you're starting to understand that. But I can't stress that these are not going to be they're easy to understand, not easy to do, >> right? >> You know. >> Yes. Yes. >> So here's the math on this. If you say you said you make about 7,500 a month if

you keep the side job, right? >> Mhm. >> Yes. Are you doing any investing right now? >> No. Uh, well, a little bit to my 401k, but I I stopped that.

>> Good. Let's pause all investing to clean this mess up so that we can actually retire one day. That's the goal. And right now, investing is not helping us get rid of the mess. So, let's say you could, you know, you make 7500 and you lived on 4,000. That's fair. If you move this, if you switch your renting situation, that frees up 3,500 bucks a month to throw at debt, right?

>> With 130 grand in debt, you're done in about 37 months. three years, >> right? >> And that's if you do no other changes.

If you can just cut your rent down and throw that amount of the debt, we're done in three years. I think you can do even better with this with your you're very talented. You have a lot of highskilled um you know, you have a lot of high skills. I would use that to your advantage. Live on as little as you can for two years. Let's say your 60th birthday. Let's celebrate you becoming debtree. How cool would that be?

>> That would be amazing. Really amazing.

>> It's possible. I mean, you can crunch the numbers and go, "All right, this is the margin I need. I need $4,000 a month come hell or high water to be throwing at this debt. And then do the debt snowball. Knock out the smallest balance first. For you, the IRS debt goes to the top cuz they can really screw up your life and garnish your wages. So, I would attack that first. But once you're done with that, just debt snowball it.

Whatever the smallest card balance is, attack that first. Minimum payments on the rest. >> Okay. Keep making my minimum. Keep making my minimum payments. Yes.

>> Don't get behind on anything if you can help it. >> Yeah. I'm already a little bit behind on a lot of the payments. >> Is anything in collections credit card wise? >> No, not one credit card is actually.

Yes. >> Okay. So, go ahead and settle that one.

>> Try to get current on everything and then attack the IRS debt, then debt snowball the rest. That's your goal. So, we're going to cover four walls. Basic food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance, and then beyond that, we are living like broke college kids. Cuz right now, your kids are living more lavishly than you are.

>> Yeah. >> That's [laughter] pretty wild.

Like I think college kids should be broke. That's the stage of life. Not a 58-year-old woman who's trying to provide for them. So you have done more than enough. You don't need to earn your kids love by going deeper and deeper into debt. [music] >> Right. Okay. >> You got this, Lisa. We're cheering you on. I'm going to gift you every dollar, our premium version to connect your bank accounts, have all the transactions come through cuz you make great money. It's time to put every dollar to work [music] cleaning up this mess.

Sweet.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time, we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know? >> Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars.

And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last, and that means regular, proper maintenance.

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[music]

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>> All righty. Today's question comes from Kyle in Florida. He says, "I'm going to be a new dad soon and want to do everything I can to set my son up for success. We plan on opening a Trump account for him and contribute $5,000 a year.

How can we avoid a mindset of entitlement in our son if this account has hundreds of thousands of dollars in it when he turns 18?" We'd like to reinforce the idea that we did not set up this account to squander the money away on ridiculous material purchases every 18-year-old dreams about.

>> That's a great question. >> It's a really great question and there's kind of two sides of it. Uh George, the first side I'm seeing is um just raising a child in the way that he should go, right? Like there's what what you're teaching him about money in the next 18 years is really huge.

And then there's the side of is this really the best option for you? Um do you want to have control over that money or do you want him to receive this money at 18?

how is it smart for him to re to receive that kind of money at 18. Um so let's

talk about both. I'll kind of start with the the raising side. I think whatever

you show your kids the most is what they're going to pick up on and they're going to learn. And so if you've created a lifestyle where we don't squander things in our home and we're very thoughtful about our purchases and we don't buy things to impress other people, your child is going to pick up on that. So a lot of that is due diligence on your part. Now when it comes to the Trump accounts, h you know, if you want to participate, I suppose you can.

It it's not uh it's not what I do. Um, I do 529s for my kids and we also have a brokerage account that we know we're going to gift money to them out of when when we're ready to help with things like down payments and things like that. So, that's how we do it.

>> So, I I actually looked into this and I realized there's not a whole lot of advantages outside of the free thousand if your child is born 25 through 28. So, I had a kid in 2025. I will happily take $1,000 from the government cuz I've given much more to them. And so I'll take that free thousand for my little guy and it'll grow.

I will not be contributing more than that because to your point at 18 they get control if it's a Trump account. >> Yeah. And they don't need hundreds of thousands of dollars at age 18 >> and you hope they're going to go I'm going to use this for a down payment or >> you don't but you don't know. >> Yeah.

And we don't know exactly how they're going to guard against you using it for other things. They haven't been super clear about what you can use it for outside of education and a down payment. >> That's actually a major difference that I want to talk about. you know, you look at things like uh Roth IAS or custodial accounts or 520, they're established like what it is is what it is.

time. It's not locked in in what it will be and what it can change into. And I think that's something worth noting. Um but yeah, I'm the type of parent I want control. I don't want you ending up with $100,000 or $500,000 at age 18. I want

to have the control. Do you remember us at 18? No. 18-year-old is their their prefrontal cortex isn't baked yet.

>> Not it. Yes. I was not it.

>> These are the same kids taking out $250,000 for uh degrees that they don't need. So that's right. Let's not give them that control. So I do exactly what Jade says.

I got a 529 plan for education. I'm funding that. And then for other needs outside of education, >> I go with the taxable brokerage account in my name that I can name. That's right.

>> And then I can gift that money when I believe they are ready to handle it. And so if it's I want to cover the wedding, great. I can take that money out and I can pay for the wedding.

>> And same thing with a down payment. Or if you want to gift them a house, >> I want to be able to control that. And so I think that's very wise to do. And I'm not mad at the Trump accounts. I just don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. But I love that it's starting the conversation about investing for your kids at an earlier age.

>> It is. And you have up to $18,000 per

parent per child per year that you can give without really any >> without having to fill out the gift tax form. And so that's that's a great way to go as well. And the the exemption is now if you're a married couple, it's like $30 million. It's high for your gift your state exemption. So, uh not something most people have to worry about hitting. So, great question, Kyle.

I would if you want to do this I would contribute to the taxable brokerage account and if your child can get the free thousand bucks I would absolutely take that and let it ride because even a thousand bucks from >> that's yes >> zero to 60 don't even tell them it exist I mean they'll know it exists when they turn 18 and they're like sweet free money >> yeah [laughter] >> maybe that's for the first car that would be >> that's right perfect >> all right let's go to Quinton in Lincoln Nebraska what's going on

>> hey guys I appreciate y'all taking my call >> sure Um, so, uh, just to keep it short, I

have, uh, just found out that my

girlfriend, um, who I've been planning to propose to, is pregnant and, um, we're expecting twins.

>> Whoa. >> So, yeah, you know, a blessing.

Absolutely. I, uh, but concerned about

I'm I'm I'm on baby step two, uh, doing the death snowball. Um, I'm I'm I'm financially concerned that um, you know, with these two coming that uh, we're going to be in a bad spot if I continue to put everything into the debt snowball. Um, I'm wondering if maybe I should put a little bit more into savings instead and what your guys' thoughts are on that. >> I mean, yes, I would probably pause all

getting out of debt behavior because this is a a storm and a stork.

[laughter] This is storm mode and storm mode. Uh what what's the plan going forward? Was this somebody that you were thinking could be the one or did this was this really just like ah uh >> oh >> yeah, this was a very big surprise. Um it's it's funny because for months I've been planning we're taking the trip to Florida next week and I have a ring.

Um >> Okay. >> So we're going to do Yeah. So, you know, I wanted to do marriage and everything before kids and then uh come to find out. >> So, here we are.

>> Well, the good news is this was someone that you were thinking about that you knew you wanted to spend your life with. It wasn't just like I was dating this girl and uhoh and we knew she wasn't one. Okay. So, this is >> So, you're still going to propose next week?

[laughter] >> Yes, that's the plan. >> Good. >> All right. Okay.

So, that it just kind of expedites things. If I was in your shoes, let's propose. Let's hope she says yes. I assume she will.

and then let's get married. Let's do a courthouse wedding and then we'll do a big party to celebrate later cuz right now we're broke with a baby on the way. The party can wait. >> But I think it is wise if you were already planning on getting married, let's go ahead and speed that process up cuz we we've been doing some some things backwards now as you said.

You didn't want it to happen in this order, but here we are, right? So, let's move forward with a pile of savings. And when baby and mom, babies and mom are home safe, then we can hit play on the debt snowball.

>> What do you both do for work?

>> Um I uh I'm a union plumber and she is

she works in a daycare right now, but she will be staying home um when we have the kids. And that was kind of a second part of the question is, you know, with her being in debt and her staying home, um, marriage was obviously going to be

an option. Um, and as you guys are saying it, do it sooner than later. Um, but then I'll be taking on her debts as well. And so that's where, you know, >> it's going to take like a decade to pay this off if it's all on you.

>> Well, I mean, it kind of feels like it. You know, I make decent money and I I think >> What do you make and what's the total debts?

Um, I'm at 110 last year on my W TWS and

um, uh, total debt combined is about 26

27. >> Oh, great. >> Okay, we can do that. >> You can knock that out fast within a year.

>> Mhm. >> Maybe even less even with just your in, >> right? And that's where and that so I I just downloaded the uh, every dollar and it looked like, you know, I was going to get one of the big ones off right before a due date. Um, but then, you know, that's where I'm I'm now I'm like, I don't know if I should, >> right?

But no, no, no.

>> Mhm. >> So, it's just peace of mind sitting there waiting for you.

>> Are your expenses pretty low? >> I need that now.

>> Uh, yeah. I mean, mortgage, you know, we're looking at 1,400 and after that, you know, cars are paid off, >> right? >> Um, >> what about insurance? >> Insurance and >> uh health insurance. >> Yeah, car health insurance is all union, so that comes out before my take-home.

>> Okay. And do you know what the out-of pocket max is or like what the deductible is because you're going to need that possibly. >> Uh, I want to say it's a it's a 5,000 deductible, but uh if we add her on, I'm

not I'm not 100%. I haven't looked into that. >> I check into that. I always like to advise people to have that number saved up going in because again, [music] you never know what could happen and it could be very easy in certain situations to hit that deductible and have to shell out that money or even [music] worse, you know, out of pocket max for the year. >> But if your expenses are pretty low, you can throw 4 grand a month into savings.

7 months from now, you have all the money to pay off the debt and as soon as they're home and healthy, throw it at the debt and we're debtree, man. Best of luck.

[music]

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[snorts]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Jason is with us in Indianapolis. What's going on Jason?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Um, so the most basic level of this question is for about a 10-year period, my wife and I need to live in separate cities. Um, I'll be snowbirding and coming back seasonally. She'll come out to where I want to be as she's able. So, the the

most basic, how do we pull this off?

>> Why is it necessary? Tell us about what you're trying to accomplish. >> Sure. We're from the Indianapolis area.

We spent about three years in Arizona uh during the COVID years. And when we moved back to Indianapolis for some elder care and family responsibilities,

um CO has had a a serious impact on my

health. Um all the specialists I've been treating with not very effective. The

what has worked for me is the climate back in Arizona. Um, my conditions

continue to worsen and so I need to be out there for relief. My wife has a once-in-a-lifetime career with a large Indianapolis employer and has a pension um that we're

really going to need come retirement and

the family reasons um uh still exist for

her. >> Okay. So, is uh how much is how much do

you guys earn?

um combined, um we make about 160. And

she might have some potential for bonus, but we don't really think about that.

>> What makes her job a once in a-lifetime opportunity? Because when when you said that, I'm thinking that you're going to hit me with the fact that she's making crazy money. Well, um she's making crazy

money for the way we grew up, but she works for um a a big pharma here, has a

phenomenal job with uh her position was

eliminated. They allowed her to come back as though she had no loss time and

resume her pension where she left off.

>> Okay. >> Finding employers in this area with a pension, um not great. We're beyond the

part about where I think she should go with me and we should have one home.

That's a focus on the family discussion that we continue to have. >> When you say family, are we talking kids? Like parents?

>> Um uh her father-in-law, I'm sorry, my

father-in-law, her father um has dementia. And we're here to help um her

brother and his wife with elder care.

And then there are children having babies. And so we've got grandchildren, too. And you know it's a difficult situation because the the the crux of

this is my health and it's not improving

and you know there's something to be said for I'm not living and contributing

positively to the family dynamic until I

get better. >> Where would the majority of the time be spent? Um would you be or let me ask

this in a better way. Would you be living in Arizona? basically indefinitely and you're just making trips to Indianapolis to visit her where she's living in Indianapolis then making trips to visit you. Like it's two you're

spending the majority of time in your separate cities or is it kind of like we go over here then we go over there?

>> Right. So my employer um I work remotely

and have the flexibility to be back in Indiana during the lowest migraine season which would typically be the summer. >> So you'd only be there summer. Oh boy.

>> Typically, yeah, she would come out to see me when she can. I would come back here when I can. It doesn't preclude that I wouldn't come out other times, but in in terms of the biggest amount of

time, it would be summertimes. And this would be for a 10-year period when she plans to fully retire. And the way I'm wired, I'll I'll always have to work to

keep my brain busy. >> Let me tell you, let me tell you what I'm thinking right here. And again, this is a decision you guys are going to make. But the the two things that pop up to me is 10 years is a very, very long time. And a lot of times what I'm what I'm hearing here is several variables that are very important and that you're trying to hang on to every single variable, but they're not all they're

not all serving you in this in in in the in the in the right way. Okay? There's there's the aging kids or I'm sorry, the aging parents. There's the grandkids.

There's the dream job. There's the health issue. So, there's all these things. >> I really truly think that you're going to have to force rank the top two most

important things and make the decisions around that. If everything is important, your marriage goes down the drain. I just don't see how you can do this financially. Um because I would never hang on to a job simply for a pension, number one. Uh especially at the detriment of you having to spend 10 years like, you know, back and forth.

Then there's the part of there's the elder care, but you said the it sounded like you said the sister-in-law and her husband >> other siblings involved >> and so why wouldn't we use our flights?

Why wouldn't we uh and this is just an option. I'm not saying you have to do this. Why wouldn't we everybody move to a or and she gets a job there in Arizona

and then you take flights back to visit the grandkids or you take flights back to visit the aging parents that feels more balanced than the solution that we

that you're presenting. There may be more to it that I know nothing about.

But I think the number one priorities here have to be you staying alive and healthy and you being uh uh keeping your

marriage in a state where it can be healthy. And I think that has to go, as painful as that is, I think that has to go above the aging parents and the dementia and the grandkids.

Completely agree. That's been my preference all along. Um I'm up against

some resistance and some different

interpretations of um rank and

responsibility than >> forms of obedience. And so this is kind of the desperation throwdown of we've

had this discussion multiple times and I'm finally at a point physically and mentally where I have to start making a decision about my health long term.

>> Um and so that's that's the rest of the

dynamic. >> Okay. So you're just saying, "Yeah, I got to live. I'm going to do this.

Hopefully there's a way we can work it out to where this works." Do you guys combine finances right now?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, the answer to your question, just to make sure we at least hit that, is how do you afford it? You're going to need to find affordable housing in Arizona. And that might just mean renting for now. I don't know that I'd go buy a house just for you. I would just rent affordably in the area and then do you guys have a mortgage in Indianapolis currently?

>> We do. The the other piece to this is it's a larger house than we needed. We did get a good deal because of some family connection. So, it's going to be a bigger asset at retirement, but we are taking in a renter that will help reduce

the mortgage. Um, and we've done that before um sporadically. My intent was to

start renting and then see later if I would end up in the condo that we would ultimately retire in because renting for 10 years doesn't seem to be [snorts] terribly wise. >> What happens at the end of 10 years? Is that kind of the time where you think >> aging parents might not be part of the picture? What what's what denotes 10 years? >> Um 10 years is when we're both 55. She

plans to stay with this employer and retire at 65 and then we spend the rest of our life out there. >> So really >> there has been the the plan all along at retirement. >> But it really is then now now we're seeing where the real priority is. It really is with the job, not the aging and and parents with dementia.

factors, but >> yeah, those were things to >> if you took the pension out of the picture, what would you do? Cuz I think you can get a great job in pharma making six figures and you guys can build your own wealth over a decade instead of hanging on to all of this just for a pension while your marriage is down the drain. >> Yes. >> And so those are some real hard things to consider.

I know your health is paramount.

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Sarah is in Boston, Massachusetts.

What's going on, Sarah?

>> Hey, you guys. Thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

>> What's going on? >> Well, my question is, is it unwise for

me to move out of my mom's home while paying off my debt?

>> Ah, how old are you?

>> Well, I'm 41.

>> How long you been living there?

>> I've been back home since November of 2024. >> Okay. What happened that that got you back into her house?

my dad uh was sick and had passed away.

Um so I wanted to go home and um be able to be there for him while he was alive and be able to help um where I could and

then he had passed away in February 2025. >> Oh, I'm so sorry.

>> Thank you. >> Did you move your whole life there? What? Like job and everything? Kind of relocate? >> Yes, pretty much. I was in Colorado. I

um was I had an apartment. I was had a full-time job. I was a part-time job as well. I was doing okay. This happened. I just really felt led to come home.

>> Um, so [clears throat] I literally sold everything I could get my what I could in my car and went >> back home to Massachusetts. >> How much debt do you have?

>> Um, I actually uh it's about 52,000.

>> What kind is that? Break it down for us.

>> Yep. So um I have student loan debt.

It's around 33,000.

I have a vehicle that I own and it's uh

about a little over $14,000 and then I have um pretty credit credit

card debt around $4,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And what do you make?

>> Um currently I make at my full-time I make about 70,000. Um and then I have a

part-time job roughly. I don't know what I make annually there. It does change but it's part-time. Um, so roughly I

would say I take home about $4,500 a month between jobs. >> 4,500.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So,

um, you know, if you were So, it's been about a year since your loss.

>> Mhm. >> How's your mom doing?

>> Um, she's doing okay. It's a different situation. It's actually They were They're actually divorced. They were they've been divorced for years, >> but she was where I came home. I couldn't stay with my stepmom and my dad, so I stayed with her.

>> I see. I see. I see. >> But she's doing okay, but it is a different circumstance. >> Okay. Um, so the purpose of you moving

in with your mom was to be there for your dad. It didn't seem like the purpose of that was to pay off debt

because you had the same debt when you were in Colorado with the apartment.

Yes. >> Yes. >> What caused you to not get ahead on the debt? Was it you just didn't have a mind to pay it off yet or you didn't have the margin?

>> Do you [clears throat] mean when I was in Colorado? >> Uhhuh. >> Um when I was in Colorado, um I just didn't have the margin. I mean, I just paid as best I could. Okay.

>> But I just didn't have the margin. >> So do you think that if you moved out and got yourself in something a nice, you know, a fine one-bedroom apartment somewhere around a,000, you know, 1,100 bucks a month, you would have the margin to do it at that point?

Um, I don't think I have the margin. Um, in this area, it's hard to even find a room sometimes for that.

>> Are you in the city proper or are you in a suburb?

>> I'm suburb. >> Okay. And do you work remotely or is it in person?

>> In person. >> Okay. So, I'm wondering, you know, how far of a commute could we handle to get somewhere that's a little less expensive? Can you tell me the I'm from that area. I'm just curious, what kind of area are we talking about where it's super expensive in the suburbs because it can range. Um, Metro West, okay,

Metro West area. Um, >> I would look and see how what kind of place could I get for just a one-bedroom on my own. And here's why. I think it's it's hard to not stunt your growth and progress while living in mom's house.

I would say 90% of the time someone tells me they're living at home, they're usually not making the progress they should be based on how little their expenses are. >> Yeah. I'd rather you have an outside roommate than live with mom or dad

>> cuz I think you can get out of this debt in even renting your own place. You can be out of this debt in two years if you got serious about two grand a month your debt's cleared. >> Yeah. >> So the question is how do we create that margin of two grand a month even if we were renting somewhere? And if you're bringing home four or five grand a month all right now we know we need to live on three grand max to make this goal happen.

>> Right. Right. I think that's I think that's what I I haven't been I know I don't see you guys. I haven't been Cazella tense. I know I haven't I know I'm just trying to kind of um manage

life right now and and and still have fun but pay off debt too. So I think I know I can do better. Like I know I can go full force. I just find that when I do that I it's it's like it's just it

just seems like it's a lot of stress, you know, but at the same time I have a set, you know. >> Yeah. I mean, it is hard to the things that we're talking about. Again, they are simple to say, but when it comes time to do them, they do. It takes a lot of mental energy to stick to a plan. It

takes a lot of mental fortitude to do the things that you say you're going to do on your budget. And it really does

become a full-time job, you know, to pay off your debt. It's like, all right, every day I'm thinking about it. I wake up, I check my every dollar budget. I'm tracking my transactions. I'm having to pack my lunch. You know, I'm having to make sure I take the food out, you know, of the freezer for dinner, so I'm not ordering takeout. It is a lot. But you kind of have to reframe in your brain what's more stressful. Is it more stressful to be 41 years old and, you

know, not really able to not feeling confident to do life on your own or is it more stressful to for How long was it, George? >> Two years. Two years, two grand a month.

You'd clear this.

I'm ready to do it. >> You got here's the question mark. Can I ask you this? How much progress have you made while living at mom's house rentree with no expenses? Have you thrown all the extra at the debt?

>> No, I haven't thrown all the extra, but I have paid off debts. I have paid off um several lines of credit. Um I mean I am doing it. Um but I have not I have

not put every you know every >> You got to you got to feel you got to feel the boiling water. It's like a lobster. You got to feel the boiling water. It's going to make you want to jump out of the pot.

>> And that's not a knock on you. I think if I asked most people, they would say the same thing.

You don't really feel the fire when you have a place to sleep and you're not even paying the rent. And so, you go, "Well, I need a little cushion. I deserve I deserve to go out tonight. I deserve to do Door Dash." Yeah, >> I think when you're on your own, it's going to you're going to feel it in a good way where you go, these are my bills to pay now >> and I'm a grown woman and I'm going to knock out this debt.

[laughter] >> I missed some I miss things happening at home where it's definitely g pushing the button where I'm like, okay, I think >> your own space.

>> And [laughter] there's the social component, too.

>> There's the social component of you being able to live your life and meet someone and all those things that go along uh with this. So, just remember, money touches every area of your life.

And for you to be really that full, complete person, you want to get those areas healthy and put them in a place where you can really grow to your fullest potential. And living on your own at 41, it's just it's it's got to be part of the deal. >> Yeah. This is a choose your hard situation.

Either way, it's going to be hard, but I think the independence that you'll feel actually will cause you to make more progress. >> Well, yeah. And then there's the time limit, too, because if you say, "Well, it's it's just harder for me to get out of debt," then you're going to be struggling indefinitely. But if you say, "Well, it may be hard to get out of debt, but it's only for a 2-year period," then you get to shorten the length of the hard season.

And that to me is a no-brainer. >> Yeah, that's true. We got time for a quick social question. I want to hit you with J.

You ready? >> Yeah. Which one? >> This is from Tracy in the Ramsey Baby Steps community.

If someone budgets, wouldn't these be a helpful financial tool? [laughter] >> Okay, so I'll be honest with you, and

George, this is this is where I stand on this. I know plenty of people who will

say, "Oh, yeah, I'll just take it and I'll pay it off every month and and they never will. They just they think one thing and another thing, >> the promo period ends and now it's 29% APR all the way back to their >> or you fall on hard times and what you intended on doing just doesn't happen." There's so many variables that can keep somebody from paying off a zerointerest

credit card. And then there's the whole thing of like, okay, maybe maybe there's no interest, but it's still something that you owe. If you allow it to accumulate just a little bit, you lose your job. It's just another added stressor. So, for me, it's kind of like, what's the [music] problem with making an income and just spending the income?

It's kind of like it's kind of an insult to yourself to go to your job and work hard every day and give your time and your money and your effort and then you look at your paycheck and you go, "Eh, that's not enough. Toss it to the side. I'm just going to take this credit card instead." >> I like that. Just become your own line of credit with money you actually have and that's 0% interest money all day long in my checking account and I don't have to pay it back and you [music] make more intentional decisions when it's your money and you're using it now.

>> [music]

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[music] Well, our team has been working hard behind the scenes [music] to bring you guys a brand new tool. It's called Ask Ramsey, and it's our free AI tool that is built and trained on Proven Ramsey principles. And today, we're going to break down some of the most asked questions from the week. And there's a lot of themes here, Jade.

>> Yeah, people are asking, of course, we're in tax season, so they're asking a lot of questions about taxes and mortgages are always a hot topic. And so, refinancing, should I pay the mortgage off early, all of that. And then cars, George.

very popular topic as well. A lot of drama and emotion around cars. And here's the number one question we've been seeing. How do I know when it's time to stop putting money toward repairs and decide to sell it and buy something else?

Very common riddle. So, let's go over just some basic things to consider here. Uh, one is how much is the car worth versus the repair cost. If the car is worth three grand, the repair cost is four grand, well, this is a bad idea.

>> Yeah.

Have I hit that point where I've just >> Is it in the shop more than I'm actually driving it? That's a problem. Probably time to replace it. And then are the repairs around crucial safety items or is it like a this would be nice to have or it's cosmetic or just it's an annoyance.

>> And then your personal budget matters, too. >> Do you have the money? >> Can you even [laughter] afford a different car? >> RIGHT.

YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE A CHOICE. SO, I thought it would be fun to actually pull up Ask Ramsey live. Our folks in the booth have it running back there. And let's use a real life example because what's cool about Ask Ramsay is it'll personalize the advice and ask you questions to dig in just like we would on the show.

So, let's try it out.

which hurts my heart. And the trans there's a transmission repair needed for about 1,500 bucks. All right, so those are our numbers. The car is worth $2500.

Repair is $1,500. So, they're going to input that and it's going to be asking them some follow-up questions. Here it is. What's the estimated repair cost?

It's $1,500.

And it says, "How does it compare to your car's value?" Well, the value is currently $2,500. So, the goal here is Ask Ramsey will kind of help us make a recommendation on what we should do next based on our situation. And it does an incredible job. Our team has been walking us through this.

I am so impressed with how on brand it is. It's the advice you would get right here on the show, but you don't have to call in and hope that you can get through the phone line. So, this is something you guys can jump on ramseyolutions.com and do for yourself right now. So, here's what it says.

If it's $1,500 gets your car running reliably for another year or two and there aren't any other big repairs coming, fixing it is likely the best move. I couldn't have said it better myself.

>> Yes, because it can save your chats, which that's [laughter] a good that's a good point. If you sign in, it can actually save your chats and history.

reference

to ramseolutions.com

ask a test spin. It's right there on the homepage. Go to ramseysolutions.com.

You'll see a big open kind of search bar there as you scroll. And that is asky.

You'll see our faces next to it. Or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube to check it out. Again, that's ramseyolutions.com.

The tool is asky. We are very excited to see how it helps so many people that we can't get to. The inbox is full for the Ramsay Show. People that we just simply don't have the time to get to. So, think about this. It's like Google but a thousand times more powerful cuz it's not giving you a bunch of random answers that you >> Exactly. So, check it out. It's great.

Lori is in Memphis, Tennessee up next.

What's going on, Lori?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call today.

>> Sure. >> Um, my husband and I have always been on the same page financially. Uh we've been very blessed and we are debt free. We

have 2.8 million invested.

>> We take out just a minimal each year to to live on. Um but we do have some fun.

You know, we like to travel. We purchase a new car with cash, different things like that. But we have a little bit of hard time letting go and just living,

you know, afraid of what might come around the corner, how long is that going to last us. Um, we retired early at 55. I'm 58, he was 60. So, we do have

a ways to go, you know, with health care concerns and everything coming up.

>> Sure. >> Um, >> you you guys could go another 35 plus years. >> Yes. >> So, it's wise to be thinking about that.

And you said you have 2.8 in your nest egg. >> How much are you pulling off it every every year?

>> Every every year. Uh, to together we're pulling out 79,500.

>> Okay. Let me give you the numbers on that. That's 2.8% of your portfolio you're pulling out every year.

>> Yeah. >> And if you talk to any financial adviser in America, they would tell you that you would never run out of money if you were taking out four or even 5%.

>> You know, with health care costs the way they are today, um we're trying with healthare costs >> our insurance down and it's just it's just difficult for us to let go.

>> Sure. Well, what you can do is you can kind of estimate, hey, u if we have long-term care insurance, here's here's how much we're going to pay for that versus paying it out of pocket. Most people are not in a nursing home or private care for 10 years.

>> They're two to two years. >> Yeah. >> And so now, you know, all right, it's going to be 100 grand a year for that. So, we should set aside 200 to 400 grand to cover us for those things down the line. That's kind of the worst case scenario, right?

>> Yes. >> And so, now you know, hey, if you you have 2.8 8 million. If you just live off of the growth and leave the principal, you'll be just fine.

Cuz I know what the stock market has been doing. I don't know what you're invested in. I hope it's not just totally in in bonds and cash and you've actually got some equities in there.

>> Do you know what you >> We're with a financial advisor and and we do make a good return. I think we got 17% this past year.

>> Yeah. 17%. So, think about that on 2.8 million. That's enough for you guys to spend for like five years just off of that. >> Yeah. And so I think part of it is looking at the math and the reality of it. And then part of it is flexing the muscle of going, man, we work so hard to flex our savings muscle and it is looking good. And then this other muscle, the spending muscle is atrophied in the meantime.

>> And so it takes time. It takes time to let go. >> You wrote a check for that new car. How much was it?

>> Well, we we had a trade in then we uh spent $47,000 cash.

>> Did that shock you? Did that like hurt your soul a little bit to write that check? >> It did. >> And then the next time you do it, it's going to hurt a little less, isn't it? Because you're like, "Oh, I've been here before. We're gonna we're spending 50 this time." And it's kind of like, "All right, our life didn't change. We're not broke." >> I know. We've always paid cash for cars.

Our our home is paid for. We put our daughter through college. She's graduating with a four-year degree and her master's degree this uh this May.

>> Amazing. >> So, and she's she's going to be, you know, debtree from college. So, we've done the right things. It's just at this point we're still young to be retired and you know we're just afraid of taking that next step and kind of letting go a little bit.

I mean even to the point of you know we thought about putting in a swimming pool for example and that's $70,000 and we said uh we we we can do without the swimming pool.

there is this something I can solve?

Like usually the ones that are kind of like vague and kind of ambiguous. Oh, if I spend this money on the pool, I'm going to ruin everything. Well, what's that mean? Like, drill that down and try to make it a a a more realistic fear so

that you can actually solve for it. What are you going to afraid to What are you afraid is going to happen? Are you and one of the things you mentioned is healthcare. Are you afraid that a $70,000 pool is going to keep you from having healthcare in your later years?

Well, then you just you have to ask yourself, is that actually true? And when you say, "No, it's not cuz I ran the math. It's not true." Now, now we're talking about true versus false. It's not even, you know, a thing of fear anymore. Is Is that even true?

>> Can I give you something that's true?

>> If you made 17% on 2.8 million, that's $476,000.

>> Oh, I know. >> That's multiple swimming pools and that's not even touching the principal.

And so, again, looking at the facts and going, >> we're going to be okay.

>> But the pool thing comes into play because when you resell your house, can you get the money back out? So, we're cares about resale. You're not even thinking about reselling your house cuz you're thinking about putting in a pool. >> That's a question for your kids to have if this is where you want to stay long term.

And the resale value, it's likely not going to tank. It may not go up significantly enough to cover the cost of the pool and the maintenance. But you're not doing it for that. You're doing it to enjoy.

That's why you worked so hard and retired early and busted your butts investing over the long haul so that you can enjoy it. So remember this part.

And part of that is literally forcing yourself to enjoy the money in a budget.

And so I would up your fund money, Lori, and up his fund money to an amount that kind of you're like, this is uncomfortable to spend this much on myself cuz you go, I don't deserve this.

I'm not worth it. What if I run out of money? And instead start going, I deserve this and we're not going to run out of money. We set ourselves up for a life of abundance, not scarcity. And doing that budget and forcing ourselves to spend over time, I think you'll get there. and a good exercise. Go do the pool and realize you're okay. We're down to 2.73 million now. Oh, >> please do the pool. >> What are we going to do?

>> You got this.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Gloria is in Albuquerque up next. What's going on, Gloria?

Hello.

>> What's going on? >> Um, thank you for taking my call. Um, so my question is, um, we are on baby step

six and my husband and I are both teachers. Our son is 28. He's been married for 5 years. Um, this last year

he has stopped working to do full-time

uh, Christian recordings. Uh, he's a musician. He's a Christian recording artist. It is not paying him at the time. He's um trying to build up an album. He has about 47,000 monthly

listeners. Um >> great. >> And so yeah, we're >> 47,000. Is that like Spotify listeners?

>> Yes. >> So you probably made $4 this this month from Spotify. That's exciting. >> Absolutely love it. >> Absolutely. He's also the uh uh music minister at church. That does pay him um about 600 monthly. His wife is a teacher

also. Um and so right now she is uh

providing financially. We're hoping that this ministry helps him provide financially, but we he is living they

are living in our rental. The rental um has not been making any profit. They pretty much just pay the taxes um maintenance. And so even though we're on

baby step six, my husband and I are contemplating on just gifting him the home or gifting them the home. Um, and

that's my question. Am I Are we doing

this wrong? Are we supposed Yeah.

financially, I feel like God is just providing in every way possible. We don't even feel um not getting that passive income. We don't feel it. He's just We're blessed right now. And so that's my question. >> The rental is paid for in cash. You don't owe anything on it. >> The rental Yeah, the rental has been paid. Um we paid that off quite a long time ago. And in our home, we owe about

86,000. We are debt free.

>> Um, thank God. But, um, with our

>> When will you be done with yours?

>> Well, I'm hoping in 5 years or sooner

because we can put we uh we can put about 2,000 extra a month. And I will be

graduating with my PhD um in December.

And so I feel everything is in place.

>> What's your home worth?

>> It's worth maybe about 300,000. Our neighbors have sold for about 500,000,

but ours is threebedroom.

>> What's the rental worth?

>> I'd say about 150, but it would probably

sell for less.

>> Okay. So why gift it to him? Why not just say you guys don't have to pay the costs >> right now for a season? >> That's a good question >> cuz there there's also tax implications you got to think about.

>> Mhm. >> Because if you if they inherit the house, they'll have a step up in basis versus what you paid for it and now they're paying, you know, the capital gains if this house continues to appreciate. So that's one piece.

And I also know he's pursuing a dream right now and he's he's on the way. Like he's doing great. And I also know that Jade and I are musicians and there was a time I was working full time and doing albums and playing gigs at night. And that's just the path of being a musician and being in that world. And so I would encourage him to figure out a way to cover his own family's bills while pursuing this dream if that's possible.

>> I hear you. That's kind of how I started this journey too is I I hustled quite a lot to start these steps and um my husband and him were like, "No, I don't want to do that." And then when they saw me like getting stuff paid, they're like, "All right, talk to me." And then we all hopped on uh the Dave Ramsey the baby steps. >> Um and yes, everything you're saying actually makes a lot of sense. I guess being emotionally uh invested, you know, he's our son.

And two, the most important thing is that it's a ministry that he's, you know, doing to try and bring others to Christ.

Yeah. >> Um >> I mean, you can you can support, you know, if you want to support the ministry in that regard, that's fine to do that and say, "Hey, we want to gift you $1,000 a month for the next year so that you're less worried about your bills and to support you as you pursue this album." Who's who's paying for the album? Because that's not cheap.

Um they have money saved up. They like

before he got married, I made sure he had a fully funded emergency fund and

you know that he Yeah. Okay. So they're not struggling and everything. >> They didn't do this out of a a place of desperation. They're still doing fine.

Even with teacher salary and his 600 bucks a month from minister at church, they're doing okay. They don't actually need your money.

>> I just see I don't see those things because I'm it. Yes. I needed and that's

why I called because I'm like I need to see someone who's not emotionally involved. >> Is it just you or is it your husband too? >> Both of us, my husband and I. He's our son >> and he he he is 100% on board with this.

Or does he have any qualms?

>> We Well, no, he has no qualms. We just

feel I don't know. I just I'm uh we're

trying to stay faithful to God and and so I just feel that he's just telling us to >> listen I'm not I'm not going to if you tell me God told me to do something I'm not going to be the one to tell you >> I'm not going to get struck by lightning getting in between that >> right but um if you want to know just

practical or logistic thoughts I I I'm with George in the way that I think they're at a a critical point of

um deciding what they're going to do and having the having the motivation to work for it. For most of us, the motivation is I got to take care of my family. I got to make do you know what I'm saying?

I I have to hit certain standards in order to live and survive and provide a life. And that creates great motivation.

And when that's kind of taken out from under you in the form of a gift, it can

actually end up taking away, right? It's like >> you can feel like you didn't really earn it in a sense. >> And so we we've talked about can this move hurt him? Is it is it removing um

part of his contribution?

>> Because they're so young. They're so young. They're just getting started. They're 26. >> You said 20. He's 28. They've been married 5 years. Okay. >> Oh, 28. Here's what I would do as a parent. I would not cover his bills. I would help fund the dream. I think that helps you separate this in your mind of I'm not helping prop him artificially.

I'm just going, "Hey, I believe in this mission. I believe in this music. I'm gonna help pay for the publicity for the album or I'm gonna pay for the recording studio time for the album and you could still >> that is a great blessing >> and you could still have the goal like knowing in your hearts you are going to gift him this this home in uh you know initially or I'm sorry eventually but just not yet.

>> Okay. and in and our in our [clears throat] journey too financially I I just you know we're trying to see should we skip this step because we are not in step seven um and that's where like the real I mean we tithe but we don't um give like we want to

um so hopefully we will get there.

>> What do you mean by should we skip this step? Well, because we're on baby step six. And then when we really give,

that's what comes at baby step seven.

When you are just Yeah. When you're just like ready to, okay, where am I going to >> And that's the other part of this. That's the other part of this is you still have a mortgage that you need to pay off. And I'm not suggesting that you need to sell this house and pay off a mortgage or anything like that.

>> Okay, good. Very good um advice. I had

not thought of a lot of angles that you all brought up. So that >> yeah, there's some big implications. It's a big financial decision and so I would just start small and you can always ramp it up later. And so if you want to let them not pay for living in the rental right now, that's a nice thing to do.

If you want to give money towards, you know, whatever pieces are left for him to fund the dream that he wants to do, that's also wonderful. But I wouldn't just gift him a house right now. I think it's too big of a >> There's just there's just a lot of dignity and going out and being able to provide for yourself and hit those milestones that I think we all want to hit. Now, I'm sure there's a lot of people listening right now going, "You're stopping him.

You know, you're stopping him from GETTING YOU A HOUSE. LIKE, YOU'RE BLOCK YEAH.

You know, there's something to be said for that." Um, >> well, the thing is, he doesn't need a house right now. He needs a successful music career. >> And so, anything you can do to actually help that part, I would aim aim my my financial guns there >> versus just helping cover the bills cuz that's not really where they're struggling. What he needs right now is get the word out. You know, let's get more listeners.

moving this 4700

about 47,000 more than I have. So keep [laughter] it up my man [music]

[music]

[snorts]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. [music] I'm George Campbell joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Elijah is in Boston up next. What's going on Elijah?

>> Hello. How you doing? >> We're doing great. What's your question today?

So, uh, my fiance and I, we currently have, uh, $130,000 saved up. Um, we have

an additional hundred in the like stocks and stuff, but we really just want to leave that and we're we're looking to use the 130 to buy a house. First,

initially, we got pre-approved for like 350. We put in an offer on the house,

had an inspection done, and found out all these things were wrong with it. So, we backed out of the deal, and um, we're like, well, maybe we should just build a house. We have no experience doing that though. And um it's the winter time where we live. We're actually living in a camper right now. Uh we did that. We sold our house, bought a camper. This way we can downsize and save some money.

>> So you had a house previously that you owned?

>> Yeah, this was about 5 years ago. We sold it and um you know, we kind of downsized. We we wanted to just kind of you know, have less debt. Um we really didn't need that much space anymore. But now we're finding ourselves in a position where do we buy or do we build?

Um >> what's your budget >> for the house? >> Um what is our budget to? So we were

looking to spend if we build 130,000 is pretty much our budget. Not including the land. >> We figured we'd finance the land and and just you know pay everything else out of pocket. >> Okay. Well, all in then how much do you plan to spend? So 130,000 on the on the actual home. How much would you spend on the land?

So we, for example, we found a piece of property in an area where we live. It's 40,000. We put down 25% that's 10. But,

you know, we still got to do a septic, a well, you know, all these utilities and and it's just >> So, is the goal to live like off, you know, off property, off the land somewhere, not in a society? Is that your goal? >> Well, no, not like off- grid. That that would be great, but it's just where in our area it's really not an option. Um, you know, most of the land that we find it's like we have to be on utilities to some degree in this area.

>> Is this >> so you know, excuse me, our goal is just

to be debtree. We have all this money, but like why do we need to go be in debt right now? >> Well, I it almost sounds like you had one bad experience >> and it's kind of turned you off to the whole thing and now you're kind of gone.

Not to say that building a house is an extreme, but it's kind of like you went to the extreme of well, if this didn't work out, we just have to go build our own thing and start from scratch. Um, >> right. I if you if you want to build a

house and start from scratch, I think that's great. Uh but if you just had a

bad experience and maybe you just need to spend a little bit more time with another realtor or, you know, looking at some different properties, I why not just do that? So, I think you guys have to decide what it is that you actually want.

>> Yeah. >> What do you want? >> Well, I guess what it Yeah, that's the thing is that we just don't want debt. Like in our area, the houses are just selling for like well above uh you know what we're willing to pay, you know, $400,000 and these houses are still like fixer uppers, you know, and it just it just doesn't justify putting ourselves in debt.

>> How much do you guys make?

>> Uh so we make together over like about

120,000 a year. >> Great. Are those remote jobs or you have to be there in office?

Well, I'm a school bus driver and uh and she's a nurse, so we have to be an office. >> Okay. Because I'm just thinking, you don't want to be 45 minutes out somewhere, you know, [clears throat] with septic and trying to do all that.

First of all, it's going to be a full-time job if you're going to build from scratch and deal with all these contractors. And so, I would start for now with to avoid the headache of what you guys can afford in your area. And even if you had a small mortgage that was very reasonable as as far as your take-home pay is concerned, that's okay.

It's not a sin to have a mortgage and you can knock it out fast and get aggressive with it. And if you're going, "Hey, I cannot find anything for $130,000." Welcome to 2026 in America, especially in Boston, Massachusetts, which is where I'm from. So, I can tell you it's not cheap over there.

>> How long did it take to save the 130?

>> Um, well, honestly, it took us about a year or so, and a lot of it had to do with when we sold the house.

>> Yeah. How much of it came from that?

Um, well, honestly, we have in total 230, but I don't know what we what we have in in this in in stocks, like what we've gained. I mean, you know, like what it's valued at. But >> so, you have 230. Hold on. Let's sort through this money. How much is in stocks?

>> 100 of it is in stocks and then and then we put 130 away for like it's called our house fund. >> Okay. So, you have if you were to sell off the stocks somewhere around 230

total.

Okay. >> I'm asking, is there any money anywhere else we should know about? Okay. Uh, does that >> um >> Go ahead. >> No, no, no, no, nothing else. No.

>> Okay. So, you would definitely want to have some sort of an emergency fund set aside. So, some of that money needs to be set aside. You keep it liquid, keep it in a high yield savings account.

But I'm with George. I think that if you can I hate debt, too. I do. But I think with this real estate market, there is something to be said for getting in when you can get in and when you can actually afford to do so.

And I think that if you guys can find something uh that's no more than 25% of your take-home when it's all said and done on a 15-year fixed rate, I would do that in 2 seconds. >> Yep. And that's exactly what I did, Elijah. We on our first town home, my wife and I, we put down 40% cuz we're crazy people.

And then we paid it off in 26 months because again, we're crazy people. >> That's what that's what I suggested. And I'm like, well, what if we just put down more money?

We'll have less debt and and then we can work on paying it off faster. And even if we ever decide to sell it, we have more equity in the house. >> Exactly. And so that's what I would do.

Put down as much as possible, which lowers your mortgage and your payment, which allows you to have more margin to throw at the mortgage to knock it out fast. Because here's the other thing you got to think about. If it takes you five more years to save up and pay cash, well, guess what happened to the housing market in the next 5 years?

>> It went up. >> Getting worse. Yeah, it's the moving the goalpost keeps moving. And so do it when you're financially ready, when you can get that payment to 25% or less of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed and you find a house that you guys go, this is great.

Yeah. I mean, if you if you sold off those stocks, let's say you kept 30,000 aside for a 3 to 6 month expenses, and let's say you found something that was worth 350,000, you put 200 down, that's great. 15-year fixed rate mortgage, you're right in the parameter that you need to be.

What you're going to get for $350,000 may not be what you're picturing in your mind, but you got to start somewhere and you got to get in where you fit in. >> Yeah. In two years from now, that house is paid off and now it's worth 400,000.

Exactly. >> Now you can roll all of that into another house and do the same thing or even pay cash with the money you can save all the time. I I really hope that there's a way that I can get this call and and play it for my fiance cuz I've been trying to say this and and she's like [laughter] very skeptical, understandably so, but she actually introduced me to you guys.

>> Oh, great. >> Listen, she will listen to Jade Warshaw.

I'll tell you that much. And you're lucky for you, everything we say is on the internet forever. So, you can tune in on YouTube and catch this call and we can have our team send you a link as well so that you don't miss it like that. >> Yeah.

Get into that if you haven't already. go to ramiesolutions.com and look at the mortgage calculator and that's all I use to figure that out for you. You can use it too. Um, and you can calculate it at an interest rate, 15-year fixed rate.

And that's how I did it. So, >> and while you're on the website, you can reach out to a real estate pro in your area. And this is a a crew that we have vetted, real estate pros that do it the Ramsay way, who aren't going to let you buy a house that you can't afford, who want you to become debtree as fast as possible. And so, man, I think you just need some tools.

Either way, it's going to be hard, but I love your dream of becoming debtree as soon [music] as possible.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Okay, picture this. You sit down to do your taxes, but instead of stressing out, you're actually ahead of the game and filing with an affordable software that makes your computer shoot confetti when you're done. Okay, not that last part, but Ramsay Smart Tax does make filing easy and doesn't make your bank account cry. Ramsey Smartax is a 100% accurate software that's honest about its pricing and is backed by a company who's been in the business for over 50 years. So go to ramiesolutions.com/smarttax to take advantage of early bird pricing and stress-free filing. That's ramseolutions.com/smarttax.

[music]

Guys, the VIP package is officially sold out on the Live Like No One Else cruise, but there's still a chance to lock in the preferred package, which gives you extra access, better seating for all the events, and more time with Dave and us Ramsey personalities on board. We're so excited for this. If you're debtree, this is your chance to celebrate with us. You can secure your cabin with a $600 deposit today and join us in the Western Caribbean in March of 2027.

Click the link in the show notes or you can go to ramseyolutions.com/events to book your cabin and get the preferred package before it's gone. It's going to

be a good time. David is in New York up next. David, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

Love the show. >> Thank you. >> So my wife Yeah, I appreciate it. My wife and I are in baby step six and um about a year and a half ago, I was laid off from a like a tech executive leadership role that I had. I was making really good money. We were we were plowing through to paying off a mortgage and saving for retirement. And then for the following year, I just really hunkered down and was applying as a full-time job. And I I applied to 1500 jobs and I stopped counting.

>> Oh. >> But about six about 6 months ago, I I uh took some some various jobs that I could find within my network here. But my income has gone down from like 250 plus bonus down to like 50k. And my life

works. But what I'm trying to decide now is, do I keep looking for tech jobs in this greater New York City area, which hasn't really connected yet, or do we take the equity out of our, uh, our home here and move to a lowerc cost area that we've already been talking about doing, uh, like North Carolina or the greater Atlanta area where there is a tech economy. And, uh, the hard part there is is the grandkids. So, that's the hard part we're wrestling with. But, >> are the grandkids in New York City?

>> Yeah. I have uh three of my four adult children live in the area and they are all now married and have little ones. So >> that's fun. >> Well, let's taking the job out of it.

>> The idea of moving. >> Yeah. Take the job and income out of it. What would you guys do?

>> Stay in New York City or move? [snorts] >> We would move. And we've already had two of our adult children say that they would follow us because they can't afford to live either. So, but you know, but it would >> So, it's like, hey, we could all use some lower cost of living.

>> You'll just be the first to go.

>> Okay. Totally. >> Well, have you applied to jobs out there? Do you have any connections out there?

>> I have. I mean, I've applied up and down the East Coast with some of those tech areas. I I think what happens though is they don't take you seriously if if it's a hybrid job and you don't live in the area. It's really hard to break through.

Um, so I wonder if I position myself there if they would take me more seriously as a candidate.

>> It be easier for if you're local.

>> Exactly. Yeah. And I've had had a lot of interviews. It seems like the whole remote tech thing has gone now to hybrid thing. So >> yeah, that's died out and people are going, "Nope, I want you in office at least some of the time, if not the whole time." And so that's that's I think going to be their foreseeable future.

Uh, I would try out some of Ken's tools and resources before you make any of these decisions because he's got a great book called The Proximity Principle and it'll help you figure out how to not just be another digital, you know, resume application in a stack cuz applying for 1500 jobs, you can pretty much do with a click of a button. And so you and everyone else and AI is now applying and bots are applying for jobs.

And so you've got to stand out in the crowd. You've got to know somebody. You need to have some kind of connection referral. And even here at Ramsey, the ones that gets that to the top of the pile are the referrals from team members going, "Hey, my buddy, he's sharp. He's applying for the job. Can you guys take a look at it?" And straight to the top of the stack. That's what you need.

>> What would it mean for your wife's job if you guys were to move?

>> Yeah, she has a job. Thankfully, her company is national and she can do her same job anywhere. Um, and the good news is she has the health insurance right now, so that's good news. >> Great. What's she earn?

>> She's making about 50k.

>> Okay. Um, >> so you guys are making it work in New York City right now on 100K.

>> Yeah, it's it's tight. We have about $200 to rub together at the end of the month. But as long as we don't have a major expense. Here's the part that scares me, though, is um our emergency fund went down from 50k to 5k. So, you know, we're >> Yeah, that it's precarious for you.

Yeah. >> So, you're you're partially sort of artificially funding this from the emergency fund.

>> Yeah. I mean, most months we keep we we're treading water. If there's a big expense, it does dip back into it, which is scary, obviously. >> Yeah. This is becoming more and more of a It would be nice to We have to do this. >> Yeah, I think so, too. >> I I agree. >> You're on the cusp of going have every weekend. >> If you didn't do tech, what would you do?

>> I mean, I've looked I know I have transferable skills, so I could I could lead like a client services organization. I'm helping my friend right now with like, you know, revops and building out his construction business. Um, I I have a Yeah,

>> have you applied for like adjacent type roles?

>> I have about five versions of my resume and I've I've been applying to a variety of them. Um, but I'll tell you that the best interviews that I get are the ones that are like um, you know, executive recruiters that reach out to me. That tends to go further. I've been a finalist more times than I can count.

Yeah, it might be worth kind of using a head hunter to help you get in the door if you have that level of experience and people are looking for top talent.

>> So, there's a lot of things you can do and I just don't want you kind of spinning your wheels while running out of money in the meantime. >> And so, that might mean finding extra jobs right now just to float you to not dip into that emergency fund until you guys decide to move or you get a different job. >> And it might be on her too. I think she needs to find a better paying job if you guys are going to stay in New York City.

>> Yeah, I know. It's tough here. It's very expensive. Thankfully, we have a ton of equity in the house.

Um, so we're going to, if we do, if and when we do move, we'll make out really well. Um, but >> yeah, imagine being able to buy something in cash in, you know, North Carolina and make the move and make more money than you're making. You're going to feel like a bajillion. >> Fabulous.

>> Well, I'm wishing you the best, man. It's a tough job market. Uh, it's it's not on you. It it just really is tough out there and it's going to take getting a little more creative and a little more personal to get that gig.

Tori is in Dayton, Ohio.

>> Hi, thank you for taking our call. Um, we have a 30-year mortgage and are wanting to pay additional on the principal so we can afford the 15-year.

If we dropped our investing from 15% to company match for only two years in addition to what else we can squeeze from our budget, we could get the principal low enough to afford the 15-year. Would that be wise? We're debtree accept the mortgage, make 175k annually, and already have 350K in retirement.

>> Cool, cool, cool. So, you're saying you want to lower investing in order to afford the 15-year payment as far as if you refinanced?

>> Yes. Yeah. And just lowering the retirement so it gives us an extra grand a month to put towards the principal on

top of everything else we're going to be throwing at the principal. >> I I I Why do you feel the need to refinance? Why Why not just throw any and all extra money at the principal when it comes time to to do so?

>> So, we are doing that. I think just sometimes when we look like on your all's um calculators and things, it's just like so much interest we're paying and so we would like to get to the 15 year, but we realize pay the less interest. >> Technically afford it with the principal that we still owe.

>> Yeah. The principle still applies though as I mean principal PLE that if you put extra on the 30 year you're going to save interest as well, >> right? >> And so I wouldn't do it. I mean I'm a big fan of the 15-year mortgage, but there's there's a time and a place to refinance. And that is you're debtree except the house. You're investing 15% and can keep it there. You can comfortably afford the 15-year payment.

And you got to think about the break even point. It's going to cost you two to 5% of your loan to refinance. So if it costs you eight grand and it saves you 400 a month, well, you got to stay there 20 months just to break even.

>> And so that's the part that that worries me. I don't know that you're going to see significant savings instantly to the point where this is a no-brainer. Now, if you had a 8% mortgage and you can go down to a 3%, well, the numbers might make sense. But if you're going to go down 1% and it's going to take 5 years to break even just so you can feel better about it, I wouldn't do it. I would just pay aggressively on that 30 and pretend like it's a 15.

>> Okay. Okay, that makes sense. Thank you.

>> Absolutely. You can crunch the numbers on our uh mortgage payoff calculator.

just use your 30-year and say if we put two grand extra a month, we would save $100,000 in interest and pay it off in the next 7 years. And so just you can still be aggressive about the goal. And maybe there is a time and place you refinance and it makes sense. But I don't know based on what you told me of having to lower investing to make this happen.

>> That's the part that I was like, eh, >> that doesn't feel right. >> If you could go back in time, we'd probably realize you shouldn't have bought this house with this level of mortgage, >> right? [music] >> Uh but here we are. It's okay.

You guys are doing great. You're crushing it. You got money in retirement, you make great money. I would just aggressively attack it and knock it out.

ramiesolutions.com. [music] It's our mortgage payoff calculator. It will light a fire under you to see that amortization schedule. Indeed, how much you're giving your lender as a gift for them giving you this loan. It's generally in the six figure range is what you're going to see is what you gave them on top of the loan. That hurts your soul.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debtree stage, we have Brian and Tara with us. Welcome guys.

>> Hi. >> Where are you guys from? >> We are from Clarksville, Tennessee.

>> Right down the road. Wonderful. Well, thanks for being with us to celebrate.

Congratulations. How much debt did you guys pay off? >> Thank you. We paid off $411,000. Uh 500.

It's a lot of dollars. >> It is. >> How long did that take? >> It took eight years and seven months.

>> Wow. >> Awesome. And what was the range of income during that time?

>> Uh 70,000 up to 250,000 now.

>> Wow. >> What What was the uh raise due to? Was that just you guys working harder?

Someone got a job, got promoted?

>> Yeah, promotions. I mean, we took on some side jobs. Uh started a couple small companies as well throughout the way. So, couple different things.

>> Incredible. Okay. What do you guys do for a living? I'm the chief operating officer for ReadyMix Concrete Company.

>> Okay. >> Um and I'm a teacher slashstayatome mom.

>> Awesome. That's a fun slash.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And what kind of debt was the 411?

>> So um it was student loans, uh two cars,

lots of credit cards, um and then our mortgage. >> WOW. WAY TO GO. >> YOU JUST busted through. >> We did. >> Okay. Did you even stop to breathe or did you just go right through two, three into four, five, six?

So, we had a little bit of a lull after we paid off all the consumer debt. Um, and then we just jumped right back in.

>> Wow, that's exciting. And, uh, I got to ask, what was the mortgage comparatively to the consumer debt? >> So, the mortgage was about 298,000.

>> Wow. Okay. >> The consumer debt was 113.

>> So, what was the spark that lit the flame to start all of this eight years back? >> I'd say family. uh her sister was

following the plan with her husband and they kind of talked to us about financial peace and uh we started along the way. >> Yeah. When we got married, she gave us the CDs, the total money makeover and we [laughter] listen to those together um skeptically. >> Yeah. I was going to ask, how did you get someone on this on that on the Ramsay plan? Cuz you must have taken it as a disc when she's like, "Hey, you need you need this. Listen to these CDs.

You guys are broke." >> Yeah. Well, um, she gave them to us and we listened and we were kind of like, h, we like it. Good ideas. Um, so we kind of started paying off a little bit of extra debt here and there, but we did like the Davish for about a year. Um, it

wasn't until we took a job in Texas and

we started making a substantially larger amount of money. Um, and then we looked at our bank account one day and we were like, "Hold on a second. We're still living paycheck to paycheck. Where is this raise going?" Um, and we looked at

all of our budget items and kind of figured out where where all the money was going and we were like, "Whoa, we're spending that much money going out to eat? That is crazy." So, we got on the every dollar budget and we started to just cut everything out that we didn't need to have. And that's when we really started going gazelle against all the debt. >> Wow.

>> You just were like, "We need to be doing better. This is insane." Like, we were making so much more money. And did lifestyle creep hit you where you were just kind of spent everything extra that you were making? >> Yeah, for sure.

I mean, we were we were going out to eat a lot. I mean, you never realize how much money you're spending at restaurants till you actually look at it. And so, yeah, it definitely hit us.

>> So, how long did it take to do the first portion? So, the first portion of this is like 111,000. That's like the the the consumer debt. How long did that part take? >> So, that took us 22 months.

>> Okay. >> Fast. And so then you decided, you know what, that feels really good. We're going to start working on the house. And it sounds like you really were just intentional about it. Not nearly as intense maybe as the other debt, or was it just as intense? >> Um, it was definitely more intentional, I think. Um, we made a lot of sacrifices

and took on some extra jobs. Like he said, we opened uh two businesses and that brought in a lot of income on the weekends. Um, and yeah, >> that's really cool. I'm curious what was your like life hack to paying off this mortgage early cuz people and you see Tik Toks about how to do it and I go just pay extra on the principal.

So were you guys paying an exact amount of an intentional goal or was it hey depending on how much we have extra this month we're going to just chunk it at the mortgage. >> We just chunked it at the mortgage every month. I mean whatever we didn't spend on the budget we we put towards the mortgage. >> What was like the lowest amount you put on the mortgage in a month and what's the highest?

>> H >> So we we get a yearly bonus. Oh, nice.

>> So, we pretty much threw everything extra during the year and then when we got the bonuses, we would throw it at it. Um, that's >> I think one of the largest was what, $80,000?

>> That's got to feel good. >> That's juicy. Yeah, that's nice.

>> That is incredible. Well, you guys have worked your tails off. >> Have you done anything to celebrate?

>> We went on a cruise. [laughter] >> We went on a cruise. >> Nice. >> Just one? >> Just one? >> Just one so far. So, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is house and everything?

>> I think you just got to start chipping away. I mean, you look at the number and it seems like a really big number. You seem like you'll never get there, but I think every little bit counts and you just got to work your way towards it.

>> And sticking with a budget also, if we hadn't got on the the budget, we would have never been able to do it. So, figuring out how much you're spending and cutting that down as much as you can. >> I love it. And you had some cheerleaders along the way. Of course, family giving you the CD sing Listen to this. Anyone else that was a part of the journey?

>> That was pretty much it. My sister, they actually paid off all of theirs about two years ago. So, we came and celebrated with them a couple years ago.

And >> that little extra fire under you like, "All right, we're next." >> Yeah. >> Buckle up. Oh my goodness. >> Great. So, how do you explain the feeling to someone of being completely debtree?

>> Yeah. It's hard to explain. I I don't even know. Like it's it just feels like freedom. >> You almost wonder what to do with your money the next month. [laughter] It's an odd feeling. >> Yeah, >> that's a good problem to have. >> Yeah. What did you do with it the next month? >> We still save it. >> Yeah, we still [laughter] save it. We're We're hoping to invest in some real estate here pretty soon.

>> I love that. >> Maybe a little bit going towards the kids one day. I see some off to the side. >> Yeah. >> Getting antsy. You want to bring them up? Sure. Okay. Let's get their names and ages as they come up on stage with you. Was that a big why for you guys having the kiddos along the way? Because are any of them like they weren't even born yet when you guys started the journey? It looks like >> Yeah, this is Elliot. She is five. Uh

Cooper is two and then we have a eight-month-old walking around somewhere with an aunt. >> That's fun. >> But yeah, actually none of them were born when we started.

>> Wow. So, a lot of life happened along the way and you guys stayed intentional.

It may have slowed down in seasons here and there, but you guys had your eye on the prize. >> Fabulous. Oh, beautiful. So cute. We got

fire. All right, we'll make it quick, buddy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

>> Oh, it's so Let's get to it. Here it is.

We've [screaming] got Brian and Tara from Clarksville, Tennessee. $411,000

paid off in 8 years and 7 months, making 70 or 250. House and everything paid off. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> Ready? 3 2 1

An actual debtree [applause] scream.

>> I'm going to count the crying as a cry for joy. >> That's what I'm saying. An actual debtree scream. >> Oh my goodness. >> I love it. >> We're screaming for all kinds of things.

He's probably screaming for some, I don't know, milk right now. He's hungry.

[laughter] >> Oh my goodness. That's exciting.

>> That is exciting. Whenever young mortgage, >> especially when they have so much time on their side. >> Oh gosh. They're not even close to retiring. >> They could be bajillionaires.

>> Like think about it. how much wealth they can build just investing that mortgage payment every month. >> That's right. >> You know, two grand from 40 to 65 with compound growth, you're like, "Well, that's an extra couple million right there." >> Yeah.

These are people who understood that if you just decide the time is going to pass anyway and you can just build little by little and you look up and you're exactly where you want it to be, but it takes time. >> Yeah. And he's so right. You see that big mortgage balance and you're like, "Well, we can't pay it off early.

What's the point? We'll just make the minimum payments. we're gonna move eventually anyways. Who cares?

>> That's just so passive. >> That's normal in America. And instead, he went, you know what? We're gonna knock out a little bit and a little bit and soon it's gonna be 250 and next thing you know, it's 200 and now it's 150 and now we're under 100,000.

We're like, we can see the finish line. >> And it's so funny because people are afraid of the sacrifice, but I look at them and I'm like, they're intact. They live their life. >> Their their clothes don't have holes in it.

Like they they look like they eat just fine. You know what I mean? Like they they're they're here and they're fine. And so everybody who's afraid of the struggle or afraid of the timeline, man, just embrace it.

It's going to happen and you'll look up and you could be just like them.

>> You know, I George, you said it and I I got to go on that cuz it's so true. And I think the world, you know, the way the world is, it it has set us up to not embrace the things that take boredom, patience, [music] sacrifice. You know, our brains, they just want everything right now. And that's not the way money works.

Everything we teach requires boredom, patience, and sacrifice. It's just >> if you can learn to be a crock-pot in a [music] world full of microwaves, you're going to build so much wealth and be the weirdest person on the planet. And people will go, "Must be nice. Well, they must have got lucky.

Must have had an inheritance." They went, "Yeah, they they worked their butts off to get some luck.

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>> [music]

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>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Our

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scripture of the day, Joshua 1:9. Have I

not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid. Do not be discouraged. For the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.

>> Amen.

And Ryan said, "The question isn't who is going to let me. It's who is going to stop me." >> Oh, them fighting words. >> You got to say it with your chest. >> Jay just bowed up a little bit. [laughter] >> All right. Dwayne is in Jacksonville, Florida. Up next. What's going on, Dwayne? >> Hi. Thank you. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> All right. So, I'm wondering how much to spend on a replacement for my wife's car. So, she right now has a SUV. We

need a little more room next year. three kids, carpool. Um, so we're looking to trade up for a minivan.

>> So this one I could probably get five, six, maybe 7,000 and I'm looking for probably a good quality minivan that'll uh last a while basically. So trying to figure out how much to spend.

>> Cool. What do you guys make a year?

>> Um about 55 after taxes.

>> All right. And what other vehicles do you have?

So, um I have a used Acura and uh I just

sold my Nissan for that.

>> Okay. So, you got the used Acura plus this SUV right now?

>> Mhm. >> What is the used Acura worth?

>> 17 and a half. >> Okay. And do you guys have any debt?

>> No, just for the house. >> Awesome. That's how much do you have saved for the car so far? That's outside of your emergency fund.

So, I basically have like 85 or so

thousand in investments. A fair amount of that is set aside for um upcoming

construction on a house, but I'm feeling like we could push that off a little and take a little more of that for a car if that makes sense. >> What kind of investments is it in? Is it just in a brokerage account?

>> Relatively conservative in uh what's it called? Um um with an investing company.

I forget the name. Um,

>> it's just but it's just a normal taxable brokerage account. It's not anything for retirement, right?

>> There is a Roth IRA in there, too.

>> Okay. >> But a lot of people, >> but you wouldn't touch that to use for any of these goals, construction or the car. >> Definitely not. >> Okay. How much do you want to spend on this thing?

>> I'm thinking around 15, but I'm wondering if it might make sense to go a little better and get something that'll be a little more reliable for longer time without spending too much on maintenance. >> Okay. Well, I'll give you the parameters. Number one, you you've done it the right way so far. You're debtree.

You've got an emergency fund. You're going to pay cash for this thing. And the other parameter is that you don't want anything with wheels and motors to add up to more than half your annual income. So, take your gross household income. What does that add up to? Is it closer to 70 75?

>> Well, my parents are actually really nice and uh still help out with me very willingly. So, um I don't really have to feel too much pressure to earn more quickly. I have more of a long-term plan with with earning more with the job trajectory that I've taken. >> Okay. >> So, >> what's your current household income though? You said 55 is the take-home, what's the gross?

>> Uh 68. >> Okay. So, if we take, you know, you're 68, right? And where you divide that by two. That means the max for all the cars in your life is 34.

>> You own an Acura that's worth 17. So, let's take that out. That leaves you with 17 to spend on the car. That would be kind of my top limit for the car is that 17 grand.

I'd be very comfortable with that. If you guys have the cash and you want to buy a $17,000 used minivan, I think you can get a great one. And if you focus on, you know, reliable makes and models in years, do your research and go, "All right, we're going to get a I don't know, I'm making this up, a 2016 Toyota Sienna." >> Yeah, something like that >> that, you know, so just kind of start to figure out what's in the range.

And then you'll kind of go into it knowing what you're getting into. get a pre uh pre-purchase inspection on whatever car you get so that you don't have to wonder if it's going to have issues later on down the road and I would think you're going to be in great shape.

>> All right, thank you very much. >> Congratulations. I can't believe I got to give someone good news today, Jay.

Yeah, I love that. So, there we go.

Let's get to Victoria before we wrap here. Newark, New Jersey. What's going on, Victoria?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

>> Sure. Um, so essentially me and my husband are looking to start a family, but we're feeling kind of like it's not going to be possible anytime soon with like the financial situation. Um, not

that our financial situation is bad. We just would preferably like you to be a stay-at-home mother.

>> So going to one income feels tight,

>> right? >> Okay. Yeah. Tell us the situation. Do you guys have any debt?

>> Uh, we do. We have a mortgage and a car loan. The car loan is about 25,000 and

the mortgage is about 500,000.

>> Okay. And then what do you both bring home every month?

>> Uh my husband brings in about 165,000

for the year. So about 12,000 gross for

the for the or 8,000 sorry gross for the month. >> Uhhuh. >> And I'm bringing in 90,000 a year. So

just a little bit over 4,000 um net for

the month. >> Got it. So, the question is, would you be able to just live off the 8,000 and maintain the lifestyle that you have?

>> Right. Um, I'm leaning towards no because we're essentially saving all of my income. So, without my income, we would have no savings. Um, we do have a

good amount saved and we do have a lot of equity in the house. So, we're not opposed to, you know, relocating, but

the Northeast is just so expensive, we're concerned that relocating won't even do it for us. What's the mortgage payment every month?

>> Uh, with taxes, we're looking about 5,000 a month. >> Oh, there's your issue. There's your issue right there, my friend. Now, you said he takes home 8,000. That feels too low. If he makes 165 gross,

>> um, well, after, you know, 401k contribution benefits, he's walking away with eight. >> Okay. >> Is he investing 15% right now? Do you know the amount?

He's only investing about half, like 8%.

>> That it just doesn't track. I know taxes in New Jersey can't be that high because he's walking away with less than 100,000 out of 165.

>> Um, somehow we still owe taxes every single year as well. Um, so I I really don't, you know, I see the paycheck that comes into our joint account and it's pretty much 4,000 even.

>> You guys got to take a look at that tonight and and just say, "Hey, let's let's see where this money is going." Because to George is exactly right. I'd be looking at that and saying is are we investing in an HSA? Are we investing in like how many different places are we putting invested investments? How much are we paying for health insurance out of this? Is there any anything else coming out of this that we don't realize? Um is the withholding right on?

All of those things I' I'd take a a steeper look at. >> Little magnifying glass to that. And then what's the car payment? >> Okay. Um the car payment is about 500 a month. >> Okay. Well, I think there's going to be sacrifices made here either way. If you definitely like you're like, I'm going to be a stay-at-home mom, then it's going to look like downsizing, um, not doing anything fancy and selling this car.

>> Okay. >> Do you guys have enough in savings to just pay off the car today?

>> Uh, we do. We have about 120,000 in in cash in saving. >> Great. What are you saving that for?

>> Um, we don't know. So that solves on my next question, like what can we be investing in? Can we get into real estate? Should we just throw everything into the stock market? Like how can we start making some passive income on this to kind of make the situation better?

>> Here's what you do. This next house you buy and downsize, you'll use that money to then lower your mortgage payment to where it's two grand a month and you get to be a stay at home mom, >> right? >> So I would not go like you have 19 goals right now of I want to be a real estate guru and be a stay-at-home mom and I want to invest in the stock market. I would focus on the one thing that you said you want to do. Just stay at home.

So, I would pay off the car today if you love the car. It's not too much of your income, but we got to free up that 500 bucks a month so we can breathe when you become a stay at home mom. And so, it's sort of pre-planning for this new life and then live on his income for a month.

See how it feels. Put your income completely aside and go, what would life be like if we had to live just on this?

And when you relocate, it's going to make it a whole lot easier to go from five grand to 2500 even.

Right? >> So, that's the thing to solve for is how do we get our mortgage or rent to be closer to two grand out of this eight so

that we have enough to still live our life, to still invest, to still go on trips, to still save for our kids' college, to still knock out the mortgage early. And that's going to mean a different lifestyle than you guys are leading right now. But I think it's a worthy and noble goal >> and I would definitely do it if I was in your shoes.

>> We definitely want to.

>> Awesome. Well, once you sell the house, you got some equity, use whatever's left, you know, that 75 or 100K, put it down on that next one, and you get that mortgage down to like 200 grand instead of 500 grand. >> Excellent. >> Now we're cooking.

Now we can actually have a reasonable payment, and you can stay at home forever and not be stretched thin. It's a great goal to have and it's a great reason to do the baby steps. >> It's always found in the mortgage. The answers always lie in the mortgage payments.

>> That'll get you. >> That'll get you. >> Wow. Well, that puts this hour of the show in the books.

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## 45. Don’t Let Money Drama Keep You Broke | September 16, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Ken

Coleman, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, host of the big hit on the Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat. He's my co-host today. The phone number here is8825-55225.

Pat's in Boisee, Idaho. Hi Pat, how are you? >> Hi Dave, thanks for talking to me. Um, I'm the executive for my dad's estate.

Uh, about 6 months after his death, I received a letter looking for the person who could act on his behalf. I looked up the company and it's a debt collection agency primar primarily focused on collecting debts related to deceased individuals. >> Wow. They utilize techn Yep.

They take Yeah, I've never heard of this either. They utilize technology like probate finder on demand to identify and contact the personal representatives of estates to recover unpaid debts. So, my dad absolutely did not have any debt. He was Dave Ramsey while Dave was running around in diapers.

Uh he didn't borrow money.

just from looking at unclaimed property I do know that there is a gentleman who lived in the same metro area as my dad for many years who had his exact name first first name, middle initial and last name. So I'm thinking I don't know maybe they're looking for that guy here.

Here's the deal. I don't even want to talk to them. I don't want to spend time on this. I don't know if you need to know the name of the company, but how worried do I need to be?

Well, I mean, is the estate settled?

>> Uh, the the pro probate is is finished, but it's uh it's not closed yet. I haven't closed it. >> Okay. What what is lacking for it to be closed?

>> Nothing. I was just uh doing some final

insurance policies and transfer of his

property to my mother. So, that is done.

I can close the estate at any time. As far as I know, there was nothing that came up during the probate.

So, your mom's still there and she's sitting with whatever assets that they had.

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. Okay.

>> Um, well, um, I don't know Idaho law,

and I'm not an attorney anyway, even if I did. Um, but the, uh, uh, most states

have a period of time that a creditor can file a claim against an estate,

uh, before, after, or during the probate being open. Okay. And I don't know what yours is. Okay. Uh >> so if they so if they didn't, I'm probably good. >> Uh probably uh from a from a legal

practical standpoint or from a legal standpoint. From a practical standpoint, um I I these folks um they they get they

have one little thread that they're hanging on and they're going to pull that thread and pull that thread and pull that thread. eventually going to end up hassling your mom probably.

So, from a practical standpoint, I would put them down. >> I'm I'm her power of attorney, so they won't get much further than that. >> I know. I know. But if they start calling her, start mailing filling up

her mailbox with stuff. I don't think there's a legal issue. I don't think they've got a claim. You don't think they've got a claim? They're probably outside the notice of meeting to creditors period of time. All that kind of stuff. But that doesn't keep them from driving everybody in the in the soup crazy. Okay. So, I I probably would invest a few minutes and just shut him down.

>> How do I shut him down, though? >> I would just call him and say, "Um, he did not have any debt with you. I'm the

executive of the estate. Um, and um, you

can give me a social security number. Send them a copy of the death certificate. None of that hurts you in any way. and um uh you know are our you

know I'll give you the last four digits of social security numbers if it matches with what you think you're hunting but I think you're hunting this other guy and you need to stop and if you don't provide me proof of written proof of debt and you don't stop I'm going to sue

you under the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act because you're violating it now that I have told you that I am demanding proof of the debt

Can I just said demand proof of the debt without providing them anything to start with? >> I'll give them the last four digits social security number. What I'm trying to do is in case there's two brain cells on the guy you're talking to, if they happen to rub together, you want to give him a way to go away.

>> Oh, it's not him. I got to go the other way. Okay. Right.

But in case they're in case they if they think But the problem is some of these companies and what what you need to be prepared for is and I think you're kind of already there is they will try to collect from someone that is that they know is not legitimately the debt just by hassling them >> and that's what I'm worried about. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I'm not worried about it because you're going to shut them down.

>> Okay. We're going to block them. Okay.

And if they continue to pursue, um, I would have an attorney send them a letter under the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act because they're in violation of federal law if they continue to pursue after you show them that it is not his debt and you give them last four digits social security number and they don't provide proof of debt. The other thing that's going to come up is they probably don't have proof of debt. They probably bought a line item on a spreadsheet. A lot of

debt buyers don't get the actual documentation on the debt. They just get a line item, point of last contact, some

details about a name, whatever the files got, and it's just a a whole list of line items. It's not like they have a file on him.

>> So, they point being, I don't think they can provide proof of debt, but I'm going

to ask because I'm going to make one or two phone calls with these people and try to in a civil way make this go away.

But if you determine that a they're trying to collect from somebody just anybody and they just think they can hassle you, then just pound their face, right? And then uh and and or b that

they cannot provide proof of debt and they won't go away. What I'm more than anything trying to do is get them to quit calling you and quit calling your mom >> and it's worth two phone calls to invest in that or to never call your mom.

>> Okay. Right. I like that. Okay.

>> Yeah. And then but again, write that down. It's the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

Okay? And and it is federal law that they're violating. If you demand proof of the debt, they don't provide it and they continue to attempt collection.

Hammer them.

I was looking for something to add. You You covered it from every angle.

You know, look, you got the facts and so don't be afraid to take this on and then shut it down. I think that's what this is. I don't think this is harassment. I just think Dave's nailed it. They don't have a lot of influence. >> It's not harassment yet. It probably is going to be there if it doesn't stop.

>> That's right. >> So, the thing is, folks, you got to do debt buyers when they buy debts are typically paying anywhere from 2 to eight cents on the dollar. So, they're paying 80 bucks for a $1,000 debt. And

they can't they can't even find the people in most cases. In this case, they're chasing deceased people's debt.

Okay? Okay. So, they're always trying to chase down the um this is basically

prospecting. Yeah. Yeah. It's they're dialing for dollars all day long. And you know, it's a horrible job. And here's a here's You want to be worse than somebody trying to collect on an old debt? Collect on an old debt that you know the person is dead, >> right? >> I mean, this is a bad job. Cleaning septic tanks is more fun.

>> And so, honestly, seriously, oh my gosh, what a horrible position. So, they probably got high turnover. They got a boiler room, uh phone room going. Looks like something on Wolf of Wall Street or something. That's right. >> And um they're just, you know, and the average job time on the job's 21 days and they they're just constantly hiring new people that are dialing for dollars.

You're probably not going to talk to the same person twice. >> And they're brainwashed, by the way. They come at you with a script.

>> Oh, yeah. >> And so that they don't get knocked off.

So, you better really be strong and show a lot of facts. >> And the other thing is the neat thing about the technology is you can just hang the phone up. Just push end.

>> That's always enjoyable.

And then slide that little thing over that says block. And you're done.

They're done.

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If you've not listened to Ken's show, it is has exploded as a brand new big hit.

It's called Front Row Seat. It's long form interviews with uh people who are changing the world in all kinds of different ways, inspiring people. And uh Ken, I actually loaded and listened to about half of your episode with Rachel that popped. That's the one that's currently up, right?

>> That's currently. Yeah. I was hoping that you and Sharon would actually listen to it. I thought it was really fun.

I enjoyed it. >> So, Cousin Ken, >> did you know this? >> Cousin Ken. >> I know.

You know, I don't think I've ever told you about. Didn't we talk about it? Yeah, absolutely.

>> Well, Ken and Rachel are like a brother and sister in a way and in in really a toxic ways, actually. But uh so he makes a great interview interviewing his sister of sorts. Yes. There. And uh and it's a great you truthfully I was a proud dad because you brought out some of the best parts of Rachel. >> I think so. >> In the interview. It's a beautiful beautiful >> she did it. It was really fun and there is a very fun moment where you'll get to actually hear and see uh what Dave is

talking about. Are Dave and I related?

We we aren't 100% sure, but there is some evidence that maybe we are seventh cousins once removed, which makes Rachel my eighth cousin once removed.

>> And interestingly enough, >> so your cousin Eddie is what we're saying. >> Yeah. Right. And we have fun with it on the show, but it's really funny. I don't know if you ever saw that video when I haven't seen the video, but I I remember you and I talking. >> Wasn't it hilarious how she reacted?

>> Yeah, it's hilarious. >> Her reaction is priceless.

>> Classic. Yeah, because she's so fun.

>> James is in Salt Lake City. Hey, James, what's up?

Hey Dave, you've probably answered this question a thousand or a million times, but um my wife and I, we have a lot of kids, which is our decision. You know, I'm not blaming anybody, but uh

>> I always wanted like I always wanted like four kids and she always wanted 12.

So, we're going to compromise and have 12. So, that's our family situation.

>> You really have 12 kids?

>> Well, we have 11 right now.

>> Oh, okay. >> But you seem thrilled, by the way.

Wow, I have that type of voice.

>> Okay. Oh, okay. All right. That's good to know. >> So, I make more money than I ever thought I would make, honestly. And yet, and and 5 years ago, we were pretty much debtree.

But just in the past four to five years, we as our kids have kind of reached that age, my wife has stuck them in sports and extracurricular activities, and now we've amassed almost $50,000 of debt in maxed out a

credit card. and you know push some expenses that we haven't paid medical or whatnot.

And this is something that >> what do you make? >> I think I know the answer.

>> Well, net I mean gross I would say I'm

pushing right around 200.

>> Okay. All right. >> And net though after everything after insurance and medical and whatnot taxes it's about 120.

>> Okay.

Anyway, the nearest I can figure we're spending about 25 grand a year on the, you know, a little over two grand a month on these sports. And I I think that's kind of the silver bullet. And yet my wife is just absolutely not

willing to really give these up. She's she's going to look for a job and stuff, but what do we do? You know, I I don't know. >> How in the world does a woman with 11 kids work?

>> Well, that's a good point. She doesn't have the time nor the energy. Our youngest is five and >> that's all that's nine. That's obvious obviously not going to happen.

>> I mean the daycare you'd have to float a federal grant.

>> Yeah. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Well, she's hoping to pick up part-time work while our youngest is in school from >> in between the four in between the fourth and the seventh kid. Oh my gosh.

No way. No, the sports are not the problem. And no, her working is not the problem. Okay.

Her not saying out loud, "We have a limited amount of resources and we're going to live within them." You not saying out

loud, "We have a limited amount of resources and we are going to live within them." And write it down and my wife stuck the

kids in sports. Not anymore. My wife and

I decide if we can afford

anything. And it then it goes on the budget and then and only then do we do it because we both looked at the overall picture like two grown-up people and said we chose to have 11 kids and we have to manage $200,000 to feed them and not go in debt because going into debt continuously is not sustainable. Duh.

>> Well, part of our income is with uh and maybe this is my the tail end of my question to get your opinion. We have a couple real estate, a couple rental properties that cash flow very decently

in my opinion. And she says, "Well, let's just sell one of those, you know, to use the >> That'd be fine, but what do we do when that money's gone? Cuz you continue to overspend, >> right?" Yeah, that's my position. So, >> yeah, you can't you can't you It's not sustainable. What you're doing is not sustainable because your system sucks.

You don't have one. >> Yeah, I like that word. I've been using that a lot the past couple years.

>> The system doesn't work. the system when the two of us sit down and look at our

income that we have coming in and say, "All right, what are we going to do with this income?" And we're not going over it.

And there's no excuses for going over it, by the way. None. >> Yeah, I agree. Yeah, you've just confirmed. I think that's that's kind of where we are. >> You can't be passive and say, "Well, she did this." No, she didn't do it. You stood there and watched it.

>> Exactly. >> So, you did it, too. and and she can't say, "Well, you know, >> you just go make the money and I'll take care of the house." No, you're not taking care of the house. You're spending more than we make and that's not sustainable. So, we are going to get on a system where we decide together where our money is going. You get a vote, I get a vote. We've got to come into alignment and it's got to be on less than we make. And so, the sports

aren't the problem, they're the symptom.

her working is not the problem. It's the symptom of you guys not being on the same page of being above this strategically and then developing a tactical process out of the strategy called a budget that actually makes the money behave. I will add to this that you probably can afford to do the sports once you guys get organized and get aligned.

>> Yeah. I think the reason I think your reason you went in debt is she doesn't have an off button because she didn't have any system at all. That was there's no governor on this at all.

And so she's just going >> Yeah. I I don't believe that all 50,000 of the credit card debt is two years worth of sports. Is that what you're telling us? Because you actually called it the silver bullet. >> Five. >> Yeah. >> It's about five years.

>> Well, yeah. We spend about 24 grand a year on on sports programs, >> right? Well, the other question I was going to ask you, and I because you're on the phone and because I'm a man, I'm going to ask you this. Would you have worded the opening question the way you worded it if your wife had been on the call?

>> Meaning saying that she's got the kids in sports. >> Yeah. It was all about her. It was It's Here's what it sounded like.

It was forget your voice because you already gave us an excuse on the voice. The voice sounds like you're beat down and like you're just throwing in the flag and you're having no real communication with your wife. That's what it sounded like. >> But my question is, it's a real question.

Would you have said it that way? I wanted four. She wanted 12. So, we're doing it.

>> And then she stuck them in sports. Would you have said it that way if she were sitting in here in the room with Dave and I and you? >> I of course. What was the answer?

>> No, we we compromised. So, I wouldn't have said that because she doesn't like it. But we've talked about this issue with a counselor, you know, and so I would say the same things. I think that she's sticking them in sports, >> right?

Okay. is the problem. >> And by the way, I didn't ask you to paint you in the corner because that was not a gotcha question, but I'm glad you've answered that way because I think that you got to be very careful.

We have got to resolve the resentment.

That's what I feel and hear >> on this call. I don't know your take.

>> I'll go with that. I'll go with that. So guys, the um I I would say 50% of the

coaching and calls that we get and the different ways contact points we have with people uh that are p that are married come back to this idea that we

have to both in the room be adults.

This is a limited amount of resources.

There's this is a math problem. And there's actually a a number of dollars at the top of the page and we spend the

money on the page the way we want our

life to look and when it runs out we

stop and the two of us together both have a vote on that and we figure that out together. That is the only system in 35

years of doing this that I have been able to figure out that will actually work. The idea that one spouse is off the rails or is not accountable to the mathematics and is a child and the other spouse is resentful. That idea, I've never seen that create a successful relationship or

build wealth.

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just learning to set the thing up and you go, "Oh, look at that. I got a raise." And you can get out of debt, of course. Why? So you can start building wealth.

Hello. And you can ask any question during the live Q&A. It's a cool thing. It's a free every dollar training.

Haley's in California. Hi Haley. How are you?

>> Hi Dave and Ken. I'm good. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay. So I'm going to try to be brief here. Um, I am a single mom to a

5-year-old boy. Um, I don't receive any

child support. Um, I have a career in finance. I gross 140K a year.

>> Look at you. Way to go, girl.

>> Thank you. Um, I have a pretty low net

worth. It's about 50K. Um,

15K of that is an emergency fund. Um, my

boyfriend and I have been together for 3 years. We love each other. We are

discussing marriage. Um, his net worth

is a lot bigger than mine. Um, he has a

trust fund and he lives off the dividends of his trust. The principal is about 2 million.

>> He does work. >> He owns a business, but it is not profitable. He's owned it for 10 years.

>> So, he's a hobby.

>> It's a hobby. He doesn't pay himself a salary or >> businesses that don't make a profit are called a hobby.

>> Yeah. It's kind of like a passion.

>> That's not a good indicator of his character.

>> He considers it like community service.

>> Yeah. I consider it he's hiding in his trust fund money. >> It's a bad idea. What's the business?

>> It's a bike shop. Um he has four more

years of his commercial lease and then he's planning on closing the doors.

>> How old is he >> when it's over? >> He's 43. >> Have you discussed how you're how old?

>> I'm 37. >> Okay. I'm sorry. Let let us stop peppering you. What how can we help you, hun?

>> So I am under the assumption that you would recommend a prenup given the dramatic difference in our net worth. I

apply um this program to my life and I would

like to apply it to my marriage as well.

But >> why the two? >> I don't know. Um

I just if we have a prenup,

how do we combine our finances?

>> Okay. The prenup does not discuss the monthly operation of the household in most cases.

Most the time the prenup just says what happens to the $2 million trust fund if you would get split up.

In other words, a prenup would be something as simple as if you did do it if you did do a prenup just be as simple as he leaves the marriage with the with his $2 million trust fund and you leave the marriage with $50,000 um a net

worth. Um or you leave the marriage with everything else and he leaves with the whatever it is. I don't care. But I mean you kind of most prenups kind of start with the idea we leave with at least what we came in with.

and that's it. It's only if you leave the marriage that it does it come up.

But it's not like the money coming off the $2 million that allows him to not be profitable or productive gross is um uh

is becomes part of your household income even if you have a prenup. So that's how you combine your finances.

>> But we're not So we'll So we won't combine all of our bank accounts though.

>> Yeah, you combine all your bank accounts. Absolutely. Absolutely. His trust fund is not a bank account. His trust fund is an investment.

>> Mhm. >> Does he have any control over the trust fund at all?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, anything that's >> anything that's in and around the trust fund would would not necessarily be in your name. But even if it is in your name, the prenup would if you switch everything to your name, the prenup would just say in the event the marriage breaks up, it goes back to his name.

>> That's all it would say. It's not operationally inside the marriage. It's only what happens at the end of the marriage. Most of them, I've seen a few of them that interfere in the marriage, but most of them are what happens in the event the marriage dissolves. Simple.

>> Mhm. Okay.

>> And your second question is what?

>> Well, how do I build wealth with somebody who already has wealth and isn't really motivated to build more wealth? >> Now, there's a key issue. Now you've opened up a whole another can of worms.

>> Okay, >> I'm gonna love you enough to tell you the truth. A guy that doesn't work for a

profit and isn't productive scares me.

>> If he's marrying my daughter, I'm I'm afraid.

>> And the trust fund has allowed him to not become who God intended him to be, a

productive citizen that goes out there,

leaves the cave, kills something, and drag it home. Instead, it stunted his

emotional development and he runs a bike shop. A bike shop that's not profitable

>> instead of becoming the man that God wanted him to be. That scares me. I'm looking in from the outside and I'm being a little bit harsh, but I'm short on time and I love you and I want you to hear that. I don't want to leave this being dishonest with you.

>> Thank you. It's greatly concerning to me and I would want you to deal with that.

And um I'd want I if I'm you, if I'm

your old ugly uncle Dave, I would want you guys in pre-marriage counseling to get to the bottom of some of that stuff and some of that be solved to your satisfaction. Cuz girl, you on the other

hand are a warrior princess. 78% of the

or 50, I'm sorry, 52% of the single moms live below the poverty level. You make $140,000 a year. You're self- sustaining

and raising a human.

>> You're kind of amazing.

>> I, you know, I Dave took the words out of my mouth. I was going to play the older brother card and I went on a rant last week with a very similar situation like this on this show and I said, "Ladies, don't marry doofuses."

>> And I'm not he may not be hold.

Look at Look at you all of a sudden, Mr.

N. >> Trying to give him a break. I'm not because I we've heard enough. We've heard enough. I'm not saying he's a bad person, >> but being a doofus and being a bad person are two different things. You have a great heart. And I'm just telling you, I have the exact same fear here.

This is a big deal. Three years you guys have been dating. He's been on this plan for 10 years. Uh I don't think that 2 million lasts as long as he thinks.

Uh I'm concerned about that. >> Like 2 million is a lot of money. >> It's not at 43. That's why I asked that question.

How old is he? So, uh, I echo Dave and I'm saying I think premarital counseling is an absolute must and if he doesn't play ball with that, that would be the final red flag.

And you can love somebody that is not the right person for you. And again, I'm not accusing him of anything. Uh, but I

have massive, massive red flags. Same ones Dave has. So, let me play something

back to you that I heard, Haley, and I think everybody heard it. Okay. you came into this conversation like you are the one that is not bringing as much to the

table. He's bringing everything to the table. >> And um what we're saying is it's actually the opposite. >> Yeah, that's right.

>> This guy needs to step up and earn the right to be with Haley cuz she's a freaking warrior princess.

Pretty incredible. >> Yeah. I mean, you're making 140K a year, a single mom gotten into finance. you're out there swinging the machete through the jungle, kiddo. It's pretty awesome.

And uh yeah, so so you know, he may have

$2 million, but he won't have it long if he doesn't change.

>> And so um that you you just need to be careful. Again, I all we're looking at is we we've known the situation for about a minute and 48 seconds is all. So

you you know a lot more about it than we do. We could have missed something. He we might the guy might not. But I'm not saying it's 100% off. But there are some things that are concerning enough. You've got to dig into them and get solved before you go forward with this.

>> And to encourage you, you asked how do I build wealth with >> if there's a if there's a prenup, it probably needs to include him getting a job that's profitable. >> Yeah.

>> But until we figure out if this guy >> in order to get married to me.

>> Right. >> Right. But you have to become profitable. >> You need to work the baby steps. whether or not he's in the picture or not and you've bought into that. Keep working it. You're doing really well. You got a good income. You can build wealth. You owe you in caps. You can build wealth.

Yeah.

[Music]

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[Music]

>> Ryan is in Green Bay. Hey Ryan, what's up?

>> Hey Ryan.

Ryan, you're on the air. >> Hey, Ryan.

>> Bye. All right. Uh Chris is in Dayton,

Ohio. Hey, Chris. What's up?

>> Hi. Uh I was on baby step two, but then

life happened and I had to dip into my step one savings.

>> Okay. >> Should I replenish that and then get back on track with my debt payments?

>> Yes.

And also my second question, I'm really

not looking forward to this day, but a

lot of my family members are getting older and I stand to inherit probably about six figures when that time comes

for them.

And I'm disabled. So, the best thing I can think to do with it is stick it into a ABLE account.

Uh, would you have any other advice as

far as what to do with it? I don't have any car payment or mortgage.

>> Are you receiving some kind of government assistance that would be affected if you got 100K?

>> Uh, no. Not up to 100K. I've got SSI and

Medicaid and food stamps, but with this ABLE account, it wouldn't count as a resource. >> Yeah, I know that that but I was asking why you were using the ABLE account because you were taking food stamps in SSI. Okay. All right. And and and

welfare, you said, too, right?

>> Medicaid. >> Medicaid. Medicaid. Yeah. Okay. All right. What's the nature of your disability, Chris?

>> I was born legally blind.

>> Okay. All right. Wow. All right. Um,

yeah. I'm trying to think what I would do with the ABLE account. I probably would just try to get some mutual funds and set it in that and let it create income for you from the ABLE account. And I think you can do that.

>> I haven't I haven't I haven't dipped into those things in a while. I know what they're for and I kind of know what they are, but I'm not an expert on it.

And so, uh, I would have you sit down with, uh, talk to one of our smart investor pros, uh, and and the people that we have that we endorse to help people with investing

and they will know how to structure your ABLE account for that. For those of you who don't know, if you're receiving governmental assistance, if you have money in an ABLE account up to a certain amount, if you label the account as an ABLE account, it has to do with protecting uh keeping you from losing your government benefits if you are disabled. That's the purpose of it.

That's how it's designed and what it is in general. It's it's a it's a uh a legal proper way to uh have some assets

and not, you know, not in her case not lose the the help that she's getting.

So, wow. Jay's in Alabama. Hi, Jay. How

are you? >> I'm better than I deserve. Dave, how are you, sir? >> Just the same. How can we help?

>> All right. Uh, I I got a lot to unpack.

Um, it's a rather happy story. My wife and I have royally kicked butt. I think

we've done good, but I feel like we need to tweak it a little bit because we both

we do we both have great jobs. We love them, but we don't think we're going to be able to do this till we retire in our late 60s or 70s. And we're trying to trying to figure out how to expedite speeding up so we can retire maybe in our mid50s.

>> All right.

>> So, I don't I don't know if that involves >> How much have you got? How much have you got in investments?

>> 1.1 million.

>> Okay. Good lick. Good for you. And what's your household income today?

475,000 a year. >> Yo, and how much of that's you? How much of that's her?

>> Um, she is about 350 and I'm the rest.

>> So, you're 175. Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. And what does she do for a living? >> Uh, we both work in medicine.

>> I was going to guess. Okay, cool. Good for y'all. >> But she didn't get Dr.

>> Well done. Yeah, apparently you got a good net worth and a great great income.

Um, how much of the 1.1 is in retirement

accounts?

>> Uh, about 800.

>> Okay. What's the other 300 in?

>> I got about 120 in the brokerage account

that I uh invest in and then the rest is

home equity. >> Okay. And and what's your um ages?

Uh, I'm I'm 45. She's 43.

>> Okay. All right. So, what you would do

is to Is your home paid off?

>> No, sir. We We are paying extra on it to knock it down. >> Yeah. What do you owe on it?

>> Uh, we owe about 600 on it.

>> Okay. Uh if you got a paid for home and you built some money in some nonretirement mutual funds, that's what uh people in the financial world call a bridge fund.

It bridges from where the from the time you want to quit to 59 and a half.

>> Exactly. That's what That's what I'm looking for. That That's >> Well, listen, you don't need as much if the house is paid for.

>> Yes, sir. Well, our our long-term we might have a kind of a strange long-term plan, but we we both have are very well

traveled and we're we want to once we get to that age, we're going to we'd like to sell the house, take the equity we get from selling the house, buy a smaller house with very, you know, place that we ain't got to cut the grass and stuff like that. And we actually want to spend about half the year in Southeast Asia because we've we've been there many times and love the vibe. So, uh, it's much cheaper to rent a place there.

>> Yeah. Let me ask you this.

>> Um, it occurs to me that you fairly

easily could sleepwalk into half of this income

working part-time, even if you were doing some of it in Southeast Asia.

>> Uh, my my job currently is remote, but to be honest with you, we have no problem adjusting our lifestyle. >> No, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying you have the ability to produce an incredible income and you could probably do that with with 10% of

the strain you have now.

>> You could probably between the two of you pull in a couple of hundred.

>> It's possible. >> Oh, I think it >> both uh you know, >> I think you're going to have to reimagine what you do, but yeah, >> right. We're just both getting we see the writing on the wall and we just want to we want to do the right thing. Pay pay off our house or at least knock it down a lot. I would get the house paid off and I would build some money and bridge. >> Is this 10 years? Did I hear 55? You guys want to be checked out?

>> Prop 55 56. We're looking at, you know,

say 20 36, you know.

>> Well, the 1.1 will be almost 3 million by then if you leave it alone.

>> Okay. All right. >> And you would have bridge on top of that and you'd have the paid for house. and

you've got the potential to do something, not nothing the rest of your

life and probably generate a couple of bills doing that, >> right? >> There's a lot of different ways to to roll into that 54 55 year old point

>> and uh you're going to be in really really good shape. You you're right. You have kicked butt. You're doing really well. The main place you've kicked butt though is your income.

Well, also I on our very we laughed, but

on our very first date, I asked her. I said, 'I need to know how much student loans you got, and she said, "No." And I said, "All right, there'll be a second date." >> Now, hearing that story, we all knew you outkicked your coverage when you told us about your wife, but now this is a this is a woman with poor judgment. Good for you, sir. You did well.

>> You know, I'm >> You're a real romantic, buddy. I'm just saying. Yeah, you're real sweat. I know how to sweep a girl off. >> Sweep her right off her feet. You got any student loans, baby?

>> And then he declares there will be a second date. >> Okay, we'll go out again. You get the pleasure of my company one more time. Uh I I love the advice you gave uh there, Dave. And I think there's a bigger lesson for our audience. We know from all kinds of data, you can go research this yourself, that when a person completely stops work altogether, there's got to be some purpose beyond uh

just retiring from a job. And in this case, I love what you recommend here, which they can travel the globe, do whatever they want. Uh stay involved a little bit, just enough to maybe cash flow all this and not eat into that retirement. And I just think that's something to think about this idea of I'm going to stop cold turkey and just do nothing but hang out.

That's not what he was saying. But uh >> the data is really scary about how many are dead in six months. >> It is. And so finding some purposeful work, even if it's volunteering or >> doctors without Yeah.

Yeah, I mean you could go, you know, let's go >> medical doctors in Southeast Asia would be at a premium health. >> That's exactly right. So great, great point. >> I mean, that's what I was thinking.

>> Uh yeah, this idea that I'm going fishing uh for the next 45 years is

probably not a plan.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author and host of the new show Front Row Seat, which is a massive hit on Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today. Ryan is with us in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Hey Ryan, what's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Uh, so kind of similar story maybe to

how you started out. Um, right now I got

1.8 million in debt.

um that uh rental portfolio is worth

4.4. Um that's a conservative estimate

off of what realators would tell me they

would list for.

Um currently that that portfolio puts

out approximately

um at a low end $5,000 a month. at a

high end $19,000 a month because we're

heavily invested in commercial. Um so

right now with uh you know postco we're

we're a little behind on the commercial uh leases.

>> Okay. >> Um just trying to think of like what but

so I I had a home run early on. I sold a

building that I bought for 426.

I sold that building for 1.6.

Um, and then I did a 1031 exchange on

two of the buildings.

>> Okay. >> That I currently hold. >> Okay. How can we help?

>> Well, I don't know.

>> What are you asking?

>> Well, I'm not sure. you know, um

I'm not sure. Um I guess I I have 1.8

million in debt. I have a portfolio of

4.4. >> And your rate of return on that portfolio sucks.

>> Yeah, it's not great. >> No, it's horrible. >> It's not.

>> Do you want to get out of debt, Ryan? Do you want to get out of debt?

>> I do. I do.

>> Okay. No, you're still you're still the guy that hit the slot machine once and so you keep putting quarters in the stupid thing. >> You had that one hit and did that 1031 made bank and ever since then you've been putting quarters back in the machine trying to do it again and none of the rest of them did that.

>> Well, no. I Yes. Yes. More or less. Yes,

I will agree with you. But I have I I have hit more than once. >> How old are you? I >> I'm 38 years old. I >> Where do you want to be when you're 58?

I uh >> you want 10x this or you want what do you want? >> Yeah, I want to I want to 10x this, man.

I want to >> Okay. >> I want to I want to pay off my home that is worth a million dollars, but I have a $360 note. Um I got

>> But I I'm just telling you I don't want to 10x your portfolio.

>> Your rate of return is awful, sir. When you tell me you're getting an NOI of $60,000 to $19,000 on an asset base this high, your rate of return, your your ROI straight up mathematics, it's horrible.

>> 3.8. It's 3.8.

>> I know, but your when you make $60,000 as a return on 3.8, I mean, that's horrendously bad. You should be making a half million dollars on that.

>> Correct. >> Yeah, absolutely. Correct.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, I don't. >> So, so you've got to figure out why you these rate these properties are not giving ROI and shed yourself of the

properties that are not giving you a return and build a model portfolio where

you're getting in in real estate, you need a cash on cash in residential of 8 to 10 neti,

net operating income, 8 to 10% cash on cash annually.

Okay? And on in addition to that, the

thing needs to be going up in value. And in addition to that, you need to be taking the tax depreciations that that the depreciation schedules with the IRS allows. All of those things together give you north of 15 to 20%. On a commercial, you ought to be making 10 to 12 cash on cash. Um our ours does that.

And um it's not rocket surgery to do it.

But you've just been buying crap, man.

And you didn't think anything about the debt aspect. And so the debt on some of these is eating your lunch because the

rents are not commensurate with the values and with the debt service you're carrying. And that's what's destroying your ROI. So you need to get down inside of that and figure out which of these things you want to and create an ideal portfolio that's going to be 8 to 10 on residential and 10 to 12 on commercial

cash on cash and in properties that are

going up in value. those are the ones you want to expand owning and the others you want to get rid of. And so >> there's the playbook right there. >> And you you adjust it and and that's what's going on. But you've fallen backward into this thinking that all real estate's good. All real estate's not good. Some of it sucks. And you've got some that sucks and some of it's leverage too high. Some of it you got too much debt on and it's pulling you down. And um so yeah, I if I'm you,

that's what I'm looking for. And in the process of doing that over the next 5 years, I'm going to sell off enough of it and use enough of my income to beim become 100% debtree. That's where I would be going. But I don't think you're going to do that because I think you like borrowing money.

So I'm not sure where you're going to end up exactly. I hope you make it. Hope you do for your sake.

Would you get out of the rental game altogether and have him invest that?

He's a young guy. He's like 37.

>> Yeah. I mean, he'd be better off.

>> That's what I think. >> If you just if you did a 100% slate clean and dropped it all in mutual funds, you make more money than you're making now. >> That's where my head was going. >> Yeah.

Because you got $2 million in mutual funds then and you're making $200,000 a year, >> right? >> You know, and that and you're not doing anything to do that. You don't have to collect rent. You don't have to replace water heaters.

Roof doesn't leak. You know, all that. >> It's a really healthy reset for a guy his age with kids. >> Not sure I would go that far.

Instead, I'd probably cherrypick it and take about three years and clean up most of it.

>> That's great. >> And then get out of the debt business because that's what's part of what's bringing you down here. The other part is is you're >> you're still trying to replicate that one deal. >> So, hit those numbers again for people because too many people watching Tik Toks and reels. So, what is the ROI you're looking for on commercial versus residential? The stuff that you own or else you say it's not worth having.

>> I pay cash, >> right? And so, I want to make if I put a half million dollars in a house, we don't buy houses anymore, but when we buy, I got a bunch of them still. Well, I got rid of all of them, but um but on the houses that we own, the residential single families that we own, um we look

at what we paid for it, what it's worth

in the market, and we want an 8 to 10%

cash on cash after all expenses are paid. Rent minus expenses is net operating income. We want to see a cash on cash of 8 to 10%. If you get that and

you have appreciation in value and you take the depreciation, those three things together are called the internal rate of return, the IRR, and those will be north of 15 17% on your residentials,

>> which is a lot better return than a mutual fund, but it's a lot more hassle, >> right, >> than on our commercial stuff, we're making uh anywhere from 10 to 14% cash on cash. And so, we're seeing most of our our IRRs, our internal rates return up in the 20s on those. >> Wow. So, we're making serious money on those commercials.

Um, but because commercial property does that, but it's a lot bigger property and again, it's a lot more cash tied up in them. So, those are the processes you've got to go through to get there. You got to just decide what you're doing. Um, cuz if I can if I can't make 8 to 10 when I can make 12 on a mutual fund, >> right, why am I going through all this hassle?

[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And Oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.

>> They don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[Music]

Reed is with us in New Jersey. Hi, Reed.

How are you? >> I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

Um, so I'm getting married in April and

I have about $15,000 worth of student loan debt and I've saved up about

$17,000. Um, and that's not including my 401k and my investments and I'm wondering if I >> How much is in your non 401k investments?

>> I have 17,000 in a high yield savings account. Um, not including the 401k.

>> Okay. And not including the other 17,000?

No, there's just one 17,000.

>> You said I'm sorry. So, you have savings of 17. You have 15 in a student loan.

>> And then you said I have investments and a 401k.

>> Yes. >> Okay. The 401k, I understand. What are

the investments that are not in the 401k?

>> Um, I have about $5,000 in an IRA.

>> Okay. All right. Do you have any investments that are not in a retirement account other than the 17 in the high yield savings?

>> No. >> Okay. All right. Trying to make sure I had the clear picture. Okay. Because if if I heard 20,000 laying in a mutual fund over there that wasn't retirement, that changes the picture. You follow me, >> right? >> That's what I was looking for. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. What do you make?

>> Um 120 before taxes.

>> Good for you.

>> Thank you.

What have you been spending it all on?

>> Um, I living expenses in New Jersey and

I travel back and forth a lot between New Jersey and Atlanta to help take care of my mom. She has MS, so it's a little bit difficult to save, but I'm putting away at least $500 a month, >> which is 6,000 a year out of 120,000.

That's not much.

>> No, it's not. >> Okay. So, you've not been very intentional and careful and controlling with this great income that you have um until now

when you start focusing on it recently.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Not trying to blame you. I'm just trying to make sure I get the picture of what your what your what the story arc of your behavior is because that's going to that affects my answer. So, here so the good news is you kind of just started all this stuff and you probably can do a lot better than 500 bucks a month. So if you took the 15 of the 17

paid off the student loan and really bear down on the budget, you probably could put the 15 back pretty quick.

>> Yes, we are planning a wedding. Um >> Okay. Are you paying for part of that?

>> Yes, for about half of it.

>> How much?

>> Um 10,000 total is our our budget for that. >> Okay. So you need five.

>> No, I'm sorry. Is my budget. So that's 50% of the wedding. >> Oh, okay. 10. Okay. All right. So that

changes the discussion again. Okay. And does he have uh debt? What's his financial condition?

>> Um my fiance has no debt other than the condo that we live in.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. All right. Well, um so number one, as long as you do it

between now and April or or as soon as you get back from the honeymoon, I don't care. You're still going to get to where you need to go. More than anything, what I'm wanting to do is create a behavior pattern that's realistic that you can lean into and take all the way into your marriage. That's a positive behavior pattern.

Okay? Because you make good money and you don't have much to show for it. So that's why you're asking these wonderful questions because you want to do something better. You want to you want to have something to show for it.

>> Yes, it it just it becomes pretty challenging with the amount I have to fly and helping my parents out.

Yeah. Well, it um

and that also is not the only reason.

>> Yeah, for sure. >> Okay. All right. The um All right. Uh

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When is the wedding? April.

>> Mhm.

>> Okay. To the extent that you can be

confident that you can build the 10,000 and then rebuild the other 15, I need $25,000 by

April.

Okay. To the extent you can be confident of that,

can't be confident of that because you're just starting. All right. So, I was going to I was going to give you an answer that I'm not liking now.

>> Yeah. as I said crunching those numbers.

>> So, no, I'm going to take 10,000 of your

17 and move it to a separate savings account. And the wedding is now funded.

Pressures off.

>> Yep. >> Okay. And then I'm going to take 5,000

and throw it at the debt, leaving you 2,000 or three 6,000 and throw it at the debt, leaving you $1,000 in the account.

And then I'm going to get on a tight beans and rice, rice and beans budget.

And my You have no debt at that point, correct? >> Correct. >> No, no, no. You still have the student loan debt cuz we only put six towards the 15. So, we got 9,000. We got to tear into that nine and then we got to rebuild the emergency fund by the

wedding, but the wedding pressure is off. We've got the 10,000 sitting there to do that. We're throwing 6,000. I need $9,000 and I need to rebuild my u

emergency fund by April. You can do that. making 120. If you get on the every dollar budget and you really start pounding it and you say, "I'm not going out to eat. I'm not spending money. We're not going over this wedding budget. That's it. That's a whole budget, not a dime more. We're picking out a dress that fits within that, a videographer, and a reception that fits within the 20 budget. And buddy, you putting up the 10. He can put up the 10.

He's going to be able to do that. Sounds like sound like you guys got a good match here." Um, so yeah, that's what

I'm doing. Oh, let me let me recap. What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to get not too many things coming at you to put pressure on you. The only pressure is getting out of the debt now because we got the wedding financed. You see what I did, >> right? >> Yes. >> But then you've got to create the people

uh Reed that changed their lives doing this stuff are the ones that create this internal uh positive anger. It's like I've had

it. I'm sick of making this much money and I got nothing. Yeah, I got this expenses running back forth through Atlanta, but I got nothing and I'm sick of this and I'm going to do whatever it takes that's moral and legal to change that in the person in my mirror. And I'm

freaking changing. I mean, you got to get this thing going, right? And when you get that going, then you're going to be okay. Uh, but you can wander into debt. You can't wander out. You got to get passionate about it. And that causes you to sacrifice deeply to hit the goals. So 10,000 in an account, 6,000

leaving 1,000 in your savings account.

No more money going into your 401k. Stop it temporarily. Stop everything temporarily. Your life is now on hold till you get the other 9,000 student loans paid off. And your life is not on hold until you finish that emergency fund rebuilding it to 10 or $15,000. So

when you come home from the honeymoon, you have $15,000 cash, no debt on the

wedding, and no debt, and you make 120.

That feels good.

That's worth pushing for. Yeah. And that's a burn the ships mentality, which is what you need at this point. It's now I have no margin, but instead of stressing out over the wedding, we're just, hey, I don't like the fact that I don't have an emergency fund. That's a very different vibe. That motivates you very clearly. I love that. All conviction at this point. >> Yeah. I just I I create systems that

push me to do what I want me to do.

>> Yes. Right. I put myself in those positions, right? It's one of the reasons I love stuff like automatic draft on your checking account going into your investments >> or the for one of the reasons the 401k has caused more people to build wealth than just about anything else because it's automatic.

Anything I can do to put a system around me that automates my discipline. >> Well, tell everybody why you I know what you did, but what's the psychology behind saying, "All right, we're going to fund the wedding." Why'd you tell her to do that? Because that's I know what you did.

>> Can't focus on two things at once.

>> Yeah. >> And um one of them is going to suffer.

>> Yeah. The wedding is so important to her. It's such a huge deal that if Dave didn't have her do that, what happens is she starts to go, "Well, the wedding is super important, super important. I can't do both." And it kills any momentum on on getting rid of the debt.

This way, you give her a full >> Instead, I've got a light at the end of the tunnel that's not an oncoming train.

>> Brilliant. >> Even if it's a pin light. >> That's right. There's a light there. >> That's right. >> And it's a singular a singular focus point. >> And when you're trying to modify behaviors, you look for a singular focus point and lean in on that with visceral passionate craziness.

>> And then you can create this permanent change in your brain. And and you keep and you rock on. Then you reset who you are is what you're doing. >> Yeah. >> Folks, when we get you out of debt, the getting out of debt is not the important thing that happened. It's what you became. >> Yeah. >> While you were getting out of debt.

That's the important thing that happened.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Not available in all states. Today's question comes from David in Massachusetts. My father suddenly passed away recently and did not make the will he always planned to create. He owned five properties and only two have mortgages.

He also owned a business with a partner which brings in close to 1 million in residuals annually. My mother is not in the picture and I have an older brother who has a substance abuse problem. My father did not inherit any money from his parents and built all this from the ground up. So, I want to honor him by making sure none of this goes to waste.

My brother will waste away his half of the inheritance on drugs if he gets access to it. My name will be the only one on the death certificate, and our attorney will file for me to be the head of his estate.

Uh, you need to seek legal counsel that really knows what they're doing. No, I doubt it. I think he's going to get his lump sum unless he's declared incompetent by the court, unable to take care of his own affairs. And just being stupid or doing drugs is not going to cause that to happen. Stupid, immature drug person is not going to that's not incompetent by legal terms. Um, my

mother's not in the picture. Uh, she is

now.

if you're if they were married uh or if they are if they were married at the time of his death, she's very much in the picture whether you want her to be or not. Um so again, we're not

attorneys in Massachusetts, so you need legal advice in Massachusetts where you are. And um my suspicion is Massachusetts has some wicked crazy

probate laws uh because there's some other stuff on the books there that's wild. And so wouldn't wouldn't surprise me a bit, but uh you need to find out

what you're dealing with. Okay? So in most states, if your mother is alive and they're still married, she's going to get at

least half of these assets, whether you wanted her to or anybody else wanted her to. Um and your brother, if not, if

she's dead or they're divorced and gone or whatever, and she's really not in the picture legally, then you and your brother are going to get half each. And I'm not aware of anything you can do to legally prevent your brother from getting his half.

Um, now what I would do if that's the case,

when you sit down with your attorney, is I would sit down with your brother and say, "Look, I love you. Dad loved you. Uh, I don't

want you to use this to OD.

I don't want you to use this and have nothing to show for it later. If you would allow me to manage your half for

you >> until you get through these this part of your life, I will do that as a favor to you because I'm very afraid that you're going to end up with nothing. What do you think? And see what he says.

>> Yeah. >> Um, and again, what percentage of guys

in this situation are going to go, "Oh, yeah. Why don't you take care?" None.

But it's worth asking. But that's probably persuasion is probably your only technique.

Yeah, tough situation. So sorry for your loss. >> Yeah. What does this illustrate?

Illustrates everyone needs a will.

>> Period. And here's why. What you what

this guy did when he died suddenly

is he has put a curse on his two sons.

He left them with a mess because he

didn't do a will. And so now you've got

one son trying to navigate the older brother trying to navigate the prodal and try to do what dad wanted and try to

think through and not there's no direction and there's no legal binding anything. If your dad had simply left half of this in a trust for your brother, it would have taken you an hour and a half to do that will maximum.

And if he'd left half of it in the trust for your brother, with you as the trustee to manage it, and upon such time as your brother exemplified positive behaviors, you release the trust to his control, which would be a fairly normal thing where you've got an immature kid or a kid doing drugs or whatever, you're going to hold it for him, but not let him have it. Um, it would take it just, you know, just so those of you that are out there, do your freaking will if you love the people that you're going to leave behind because you just you screw up everything for the people you leave behind by not doing it.

act of love to do your estate planning

because now this poor guy David has got this whole thing is sitting on his shoulders. He's the only adult in the story. Yeah.

>> Just aggravates the pee out of me. So, this is millions of dollars we're dealing with here. >> Yeah. >> And by the way, there's a partner in a business he was running with him that doesn't know what to do, too. >> And I'm sure there's no freaking plan there either. So, you guys, I don't care

if you got two nickels and a kid. You need a will cuz the kid is going to be controlled by the state if you don't have a will that dictates who's going to take care of your kid. You going to leave that up to the DMV people? The people that run the DMV? That's the level of competence you have when you're dealing with the state? No, I'm not leaving that up to them. No, I'm not leaving anything up to the government to decide anything because I was too trifling to get my dad gum work done.

And getting your will done is being an adult and getting your work done. Oh man, poor David. I'm so sorry, David.

But I tell you what, if you want to if you have a a bunch of people, a bunch of kids that you don't like, >> and you want to you want to you want to really mess up the next 10 years of their life, leave about $2 million with no instructions and a bunch of scraps of paper laying around of what they thought you wanted >> and watch them fight through it. And all the lawyers get the $2 million over the next 10 years and nobody in the family talks to each other the rest of their lives.

>> That's right. Yep. It's like dropping a

bomb off in the middle of a >> a family. >> Yeah.

>> It's exactly what it does. So, just aggravating.

David, I'm sorry you're facing that. Um, but I I wouldn't burn a ton of calories on your brother. It's not his fault.

It's not his problem. He's his problem.

He's what's known as an adult. And I wouldn't burn a ton of calories on anything except just getting this thing settled and and moving your part over to the side, and you go live your life like a responsible human being. And oh, by the way, get a will.

Did I mention that? Rebecca's in San Diego. Hi, Rebecca. What's up?

>> Hello. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, um, my mother inherited my great-g

grandandmother's property that has two houses. Unfortunately, both of them need

significant amount of work that my mother cannot afford to do. Um, if we

were to move there, it'd be five generations on this land. So, we are trying to do what we can to not have to sell it off. Uh, my husband and I do have a down payment saved to buy a house. Um, but we were thinking instead that we could move into the bigger house. We've got two kids and another one on the way. Um, use our down payment

to fix up that house and live in it and have um, no debt, you know, no house payment. and my mom would take on the smaller house that needs less work and better suitable for um just her by herself single. She recently decided she

wanted to only be the sole land owner.

We wouldn't be put on the deed um or anything legally. >> That settles it. I'm not going.

>> She wants us to pay $800 on top of um

about $100,000 we would be putting into preparing the house and the property.

>> I'm not going.

That's what I said. But no, >> you don't put $100,000 in somebody else's house. Let's pretend, Rebecca, that you were my renter and you were my tenant and I said, "Hey, why don't you renovate my house?" >> You would look at me like, "You're an idiot. I'm not putting $100,000 in your house, Dave. Why would a renter do that?" >> Yes. >> Don't do this. Sorry, Mom. This isn't going to work out. We're going to have to just go buy a house somewhere else. And I hope this all works out for you.

>> Yeah. family um said that cuz one day I

would possibly inherit my siblings that children should take care of >> I'll deal with it when I inherit it. Right now I'm not doing a thing. >> Yeah, you already don't like this and you're still trying to figure this out. >> Your mom has set up a trick bag here.

You need to run.

This is a bad vibe. Bad juju, kiddo.

Really bad. You need to run. This is a trick bag. She likes to mess with people

and I can see the strings from here. You need to run run run run.

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If you died tomorrow, how much would your family need to keep the lights on?

How would they pay the mortgage? How would they buy groceries? If anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance.

And how do you choose from all the options out there? Well, life insurance is term life is the only kind that does everything you want, which is replace your income for the lowest possible cost. Um, and we've recommended only

term life insurance for the last 35 years here on the air.

You need a policy worth about 10 to 12 times your annual income. And the perfect term length, we think, uh, is a 15 to a 20-year level term policy, meaning the premium stays the same. For more info and resources, use our free

term life insurance guide. You can go to

ramseyolutions.com/termlifeguide.

It's free. Or click the link in the show notes. Speaking of life insurance, Kyle is with us with a life insurance question. Look at that. Hey, Kyle in Tampa. What's up?

>> Good. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Yeah. So, um I think we're doing good on our savings for retirement. Um but we

have like a large life and whole life

that we got kind of sold on. And my

wife, she doesn't agree with giving it up, but I do. And now it's kind of like

a catch 22 where I think we have enough,

but I just want to give it up kind of just for potential growth.

>> Okay. >> So, it's like $800,000 in cash value.

>> Mhm. >> Potential. It could be maybe. I looked into the end like >> You currently have cash value of 800K.

>> Yes. >> Are you sure?

>> Yes. How much did you put into this?

>> We put a lot of money into this. I don't

know. We just kind of got caught up into it. I think it was like 10 years ago.

>> So, what is the face value? What's the payout on death >> at this moment? 1.2 for me, 2.3 for her.

>> Okay. All right. And what do you make?

>> 46.

>> Uh, I don't make them together. We make

about 325. What do you make?

>> About 55.

>> And what does she make?

>> About 275.

>> Okay. All right. All right. She a doc.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. That's who they go after. Okay. Um

>> Yes. And that's kind of >> She's a target. She's a target. They worked all her and they worked all her buddies. >> Um Yeah. You got screwed >> and you're getting screwed every day that you keep it. So, uh, do you you said I think we've got enough. I mean, what do you have a large net worth or something?

>> I mean, yeah. What is your worth? Okay.

I mean, it's it's probably like, uh, 3

million. >> Okay. Invested in what? >> And that's not including that policy.

It's probably like >> 1.5 for houses and then about 1.4 for just

401k things. >> Okay. And then I have 800,000 of this

and I'm just kind of like >> I got you. All right. Well, let me kind of give you you can play this back. You can play this back for her. Okay.

>> Docs are targeted by whole life guys.

>> They're they're they're the u they're the sweet spot for those guys that sell this crap. It is one of the worst

financial products in the world.

It's absolutely horrendous. No one in the entire financial world believes in whole life life insurance as a good product except the people that sell it.

All the rest of us, all the financial planning community, all the investment community, all the uh estate planning community, unless they're involved in the whole life business, they do not believe in it and they tell people not to do it. All of us have abandoned this

product because it's not just bad. It's one of the worst. It's the payday lender of the insurance world. It's how bad it is.

This is not a medium product. This is a

product that absolutely is horrendous.

Okay. Now, let me walk you through why

and then we can then you guys can go home and you can talk about this after you play this back because it'll be on the podcast. Okay. So, >> Okay. Life insurance has one possible

need in a scenario like you're in and

that is to replace lost income if one of

you dies and the rest of you are dependent on that person. You do not have a large enough estate to have an estate tax problem. And so there is no you have zero need for life insurance for that purpose. You got to get to $25 million before you have to worry about an estate tax problem. I mean, you're a long way from $25 million. All right.

>> Mhm. >> So, you don't have an estate tax problem at all. Not even close. Nor are you going to have one anytime soon. Um, now,

so, but what you do need life insurance for is if you wanted to replace the

income. Now, we replace her income. You would need about 10 times that. So, you would take about 2.5 to $3 million,

probably $3 million policy on her. and we'd take about 10 times on you. So, we'd take up 750,000 on you just to round up. Okay? You could do that at your age for nothing. The cost of a pizza if you don't smoke and you're not obese.

If you're not fat and you don't smoke, life insurance costs almost nothing.

It's ridiculously inexpensive. Like the cost of a pizza. Well, in your case, this many millions, probably three pizzas, but it's real, really no money compared to the 800 grand we're talking about. All right.

Now, here's the problem. You put so much money into this thing. If she dies, you

know what? They're going to pay 2.3 million. You know what happened to the 800,000? They're going to keep it.

Cash value dies with you.

>> This is a dangerous situation because you guys have gotten screwed so bad. So,

if I were you, I would cash this out really fast. >> And let me and let me say like hers is 500 and mine's 300. So, we we have two

different policies. >> That's okay. I'd cash it out real fast.

>> You was to just get rid of >> I got both of them. I'd be done by by the end of the day cuz if one of you dies without life insurance in the next 60 days and you've got $3 million left to live on, I think you're going to be okay.

>> Yeah, that's what I told her.

>> All right. So, you're self-insured. If you want to go buy some term insurance, price it out with Xander insurance. It doesn't cost nothing >> if you want some extra insurance. But right now, you've got 3 million. Oh, wait a minute. No, you've got uh almost 4 million counting this $800,000, right?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And I think you guys, if one of you dies, the other one can make it on $4 million.

>> Yeah. >> So, you're selfinsured.

>> Just taking this 800,000 and putting into like a mutual fund. You should have put it in a good investment. Yeah, absolutely. One that goes up in value.

Cash value has an average rate of return nationally of 1.26%.

1%.

You're making nothing. This is costing you 100 grand a year in lost opportunity. What it should be growing.

Awful. Absolutely awful. So, no, you she

needs to tell this life insurance guy to jump off a cliff and uh he screwed you

guys bad. Really bad. And I can name the

company probably.

>> Uhoh. Why are doctors uh ground zero for

this? Uh this >> they make a lot of money and they feel all fancy because they're new doctors and they have no knowledge of finances at all. They're the worst with money with the possible exception of actors and country music stars.

Do MDs are horrendous with their money.

>> There's a handful of country music stars do a really good job. There's a handful of doctors do a really good job. There's a handful of NFL players do a really good job and the rest of them are financial morons. And so these guys

weigh in on these guys who are all puffed up because I just got my MD and these gals and they're feeling all good about themselves because they just got to be a doc. and they swoop in just about that time, about the time you're making a little money and they go, "Oh, well, you need whole life life insurance." So,

horrible, horrible, horrible product.

Yeah, your m and I don't care. I'll sell either one. You do whatever you want to do. But if I woke up in your shoes by the end of the week, I'd have my 800K in my hand and I'd be sitting down with a Smart Investor Pro and opening up a good mutual fund and making 10 12% on this money instead of 1%.

and when I die, they don't keep it. There's an idea. And if you want some life insurance in addition to your $4 million net worth at that point, just call Xander insurance and get you some insurance. Um, you can get like again 46 years old, if you're not obese and you don't smoke, you can get some insurance.

It's really not that much.

Matter of fact, she's really okay if I die. I kind of need to sleep with one eye open.

Heat.

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm

Dave Ramsey, Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and the host of the new Ramsay runaway hit called Front Row Seat. Long form interviewing with uh people who really know how to do life well. You'll learn a lot if you join him on front row seat. Our phone number here is8825-55225.

Jessica's in Birmingham. Hey Jessica, what's up in your world?

>> Hey guys, I feel so blessed to talk to you today. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Well, thank you. How can we help?

Okay, so I run a solo aesthetic skincare

business that grosses around 85,000 a year, but after expenses, I only bring home about 24,000. My husband and I are

on baby step two. I do really love my

business. I love my clients, but I do have a lot going on in my life right now, and I just do not have the drive to

keep pushing and building my business the way that I have in the past. Um, I'm

just I'm just tired. But, uh, my question is, should I

take a full-time job for a year to pay off all of our debt and while I do that, keep the business open for like one to four days a month? >> Yes. >> And then go, okay. Okay.

>> I'm tired. I don't make any money.

>> Yeah.

>> It's a formula, right? What would you make if you did the exact same thing you're doing the aesthetic skin care for your clients? If you're doing that for somebody else and you were just getting paid for your time, what would you make?

>> Easily double or triple.

>> Yeah, that's the answer.

>> Yeah. >> As long as they allow you to keep your clients. >> Yeah. That's that's the problem is if I worked for another um >> you'd have to give up the client's conflict of interest.

>> Yeah. Exactly. So, what I was thinking was um doing something similar in the industry like working in sales for a brand or something like that that wouldn't be directly a conflict of interest. >> Would you make as much as would you make as much as if you did your actual craft?

>> Yeah, I'm sure I could probably if I got

into sales and worked for like a skincare brand, I could probably bring anywhere from 70 to 100 in a year. then

do it.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, it's a no-brainer.

Meanwhile, Meanwhile, consider cons con

begin to read and study business.

>> Yes, sir. >> Because you're a classic accidental

entrepreneur.

Um here here's what we find when we're working with our entrepreneurial clients in Entree Leadership and we coach about 10,000 small businesses.

There's a vast difference between being good at your skill and running a

business that accomplishes your skill.

>> Yeah, >> you are good at your craft of helping people with their skin. You suck at running a business.

>> Thanks. >> It's okay. You can do it. You can learn how though. It's a learned skill, business acumen, because you're not making any profit. We know this because you should you just talking to you for a few minutes, you're obviously bright.

You're articulate. I think you're right.

I think you could go make 100k selling just after talking to you. I actually believe you. All right. Now, if you're all of those things and you're not making at least that doing this craft that you're good at, it's a business problem.

>> Yeah. >> And so, learn the business part. Let me tell recommend a couple books to you. I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Business You Love, my latest number one bestseller.

I'll give you a copy of it. Another book I'm going to recommend is by a friend of mine named Michael Gerber.

>> And it is learning to work on your business, not just in your business.

>> Okay? So, what we run into all the time, Jessica, and I tell them exactly the same thing I just told you, a guy who knows how to work on heating and air, and he's doing a really good job fixing people's heating and air, replacing their broken heating and air, all that kind of stuff, an HVAC guy, and he decides, I'm going to open my own thing, and he gets a truck, and he leaves his job and he goes into business fixing heating and air.

>> Mhm. and he ends up exactly where you are. Instead of making 80,000 working for somebody else fixing heating and air, he ends up making 20,000 with his own truck and he's miserable.

>> And so, but that the only difference there is pricing and marketing and accounting and growing the business,

understanding the parts of a business and growing a business. And you can reset, relaunch four years from now with

some knowledge that you don't have now on how to run a business. Hire three

people that do skin care and you do some

skin care and you could make 150, but

you've got to have those pieces. You got to have those other tools in your belt you don't have right now. And right now you just need some money and you're tired. >> Yes, sir.

>> Do you want to run a business long term after Dave gave you that pep talk? It's a great one, by the way. And he's right.

Do you want to run a business on the other side of this debt elimination and how tired you are?

No, I really do. I I absolutely love entrepreneurship that we just have a lot going on in our family right now. So, that's the reason I'm tired. But I I I love I love >> No, let me just tell you, if you go to work every day and you make 24,000, you're tired. >> Yeah, that's right. >> You go to work every day and you make 240,000, you're not as tired.

>> That's true. >> That's true. >> It's just It's hard. I mean, you're just in a slog. >> Yeah. >> And we call it the treadmill stage of business. You feel like you're on a treadmill. And you when you're on a treadmill, it's more tiring than running down the road because you're not getting anywhere.

>> It's just tiring and it's emotionally exhausting because the scenery does not change. >> And that that's part of the thing. And I've been there myself running hours over the years in years past. So I think you're amazing and I think you this is not a permanent >> solution. It's a solution for three to five years.

>> Go make you some money. Get not tired.

>> That's right. you're going to come back on the other side of this and you're still an entrepreneur. So don't let the doubting voices, you know, kind of win the day here as you take a break because a lot of entrepreneurs refuse to do what you're actually doing, which is a you raised your hand and said, "Dave, Ken, I need some help." Number one. Number two, uh you you've taken it and said, "Okay, it doesn't mean I'm a big giant failure." Because you're not.

And you're going to pause and you're going to learn during the pause. And I think you come back and you're way more successful. I'm very excited for you. This is not this is not the end of the story.

It's just another chapter. >> Yeah, >> absolutely. Kelly, I don't know if we've got E-Myth in stock. If we do, send her one.

If we don't, you'll have to get it yourself, Jessica. But, um, I mean, there's this thing called Amazon. They'll put one on your front porch for I can get it there anyway. But, E-Myth by Michael Gerber.

You'll like it. And, uh, it's a classic in the business literature realm, and we'll send you a copy of mine, uh, as a gift. Um, building a business you love.

And read it and begin to learn. But start start becoming I'm gonna read 12 business books on small business.

Running a small business this year >> while you're doing the other stuff.

>> Y >> and turn off Netflix. >> Y and I'd add and >> learn how to run a business. >> I'm going to add one more homework assignment. There's got to be somebody in your neck of the woods who's winning in this area. >> Yeah. Go learn from them >> and just go buy their lunch and just ask them like a book report. Keep it simple.

Act like you're doing a sixth grade book report on their business. You'd be surprised what you'll learn. >> Yep. Yep.

You could, you know, I I I would imagine there's about four levers if we had time to get into it and do a in-depth coaching session that you could pull and go from 24 to 50 quick. That's right. Probably double the nets >> on this cuz there probably just some stupid I mean it's just it's when I look back on some of the stuff I've done I go man that one little thing it was so stupid and it changed it changed a million dollars. It's just nuts.

Yeah, you you can do this and you're very capable. I don't I don't hear someone that's lacking in capability.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

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and uh you can click the link in the description if you want to go that way, too. We'll help you out. Sam's with us in Connecticut. Hey, Sam. How are you?

>> I'm good. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Uh, so I wanted to get your advice. Um my wife and I have a very different risk tolerance when it comes to investing in debt. Specifically, uh when it pertains to a a single family home that we

currently live in that I would like to rent, um and get a different home for us to live in and my wife would like to sell it. Uh she has the mentality of being completely debtree and uh we're

conflicted because of some of the the variables underneath. I wanted to kind of walk it through and see what you thought. >> Okay. What are what are your underneath variables?

>> Yeah. So, for me, um

I have more in cash on hand than I owe

on the mortgage. Um we have about $330

uh 330 I'm sorry, 330K in equity on the house.

Mhm. >> And uh the only debt that we currently have are my wife's student loans, which she has 30K in student loans. Um 20K of that being at about 5 to 6% interest. Uh

10K at 3.5% or lower.

>> So, um my thought process was between

the two of us, we have about 190K in

cash. Um >> And what's your mortgage? What's your mortgage balance?

Uh the mortgage balance, we have 97K left on the mortgage. It's a fixed 15 years at 2.4%.

>> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Uh household income between the two of us before taxes is 285.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. Good for you.

Well, well done. And how old are you two?

>> Uh 34. >> Okay. All right.

And and so you that that's the variables you were talking about the underneath, right? That in other words, that's your that's your story, your financial story, your math story.

>> Yes. For me, I'm thinking we have a very

low mortgage. >> So, her her her vote her vote is to

>> uh pay cash for the next house and sell this one and pay off the student loans today out of the cash that you have.

>> Your vote is keep the rental house and keep the student loans because they're low interest rate and stay leveraged.

>> Yeah. So, what I said was, let's pay off the 5% or higher, the 20k. The 3.5% is

about the same as what we can get in a high yield savings. It's low.

>> Okay? >> Leave them. If the rates change, then let's pay them off. But I would like to stay leveraged and make money on the >> spread because my mortgage is >> One more time. Tell me tell me what how old you guys are again.

>> 34. >> Okay. I'm sorry. And what do you do for a living, Sam?

>> Uh, I work in corporate finance. Ah, okay. Sounded like it. Okay, good. All right. Um, do you have a finance degree?

>> Yeah. >> You have an MBA?

>> No. >> Okay. All right. Cool. All right. So, um, I've got a finance degree, too, by the way. And, uh, uh, with a specialization in real estate. That's the world I grew up in, which is the king of leverage, right? Real estate.

So, um,

obviously you two are smart people and you make really good money and you're going to be okay if you watch what you're doing. You're not in bankruptcy zone or anything like that. Do you

remember looking at the case studies back in college when we used to do case studies on companies and when the bond

when a a publicly traded company when the bond when the when they were car putting out too many bonds they were issuing so many bonds and they were carrying a load of bank debt that we looked at that as risk and we would there we would run a formula and lower the value of the stock because they were carrying too much debt that debt equaled risk. Do you remember those case studies >> at a high level? Yeah. >> Yeah.

Okay. And then when I got out of school, I got my securities license and I was selling investments in the real in the investment world.

thing when you're comparing an aggressive growth stock mutual fund which has high volatility. And the measure statistically of the high volatility is called a beta. It's a math a math number that the more volatility

the higher the beta. Okay. And a a low

low volatility smooth curve versus a

high mountain and valley curve is a low

beta. And what we were taught to do in that world on a sophisticated level was to say all right we're going to adjust for risk by uh adjusting with the beta.

We're going to use the beta as the mathematical way to adjust for risk because you can't really compare a 20% rate of return high volatility mutual fund with a 11% rate of return low

volatility mutual fund and compare them apples to apples. You have to adjust for risk. And mathematically the way you do that is to use a beta in an inverse math formula. Does any of that sound familiar?

>> Yeah, a little bit. >> Okay, that's that's how it's done. point all of all of that gobbledegoop academic talk was because you approach this from an academic intellectual viewpoint and that so that's the way I'm approaching your question. The point being that mathematically we are 100% sure in business and it's proven in every area more debt equals more risk. Period. Lots

of debt equals lots of risk. No debt equals almost no risk. So risk is associated with levels of debt. Would you agree with that?

Yeah. >> So to compare your zero risk of being

debtree by paying off the 3% loan and

say no, I don't want to pay that off because I'm going to invest that money at 3%. To say that you're actually or 4%

to say that you're actually making money on that transaction. You're not after you mathematically adjust for risk.

>> You follow that?

>> I do. Yeah. So your your initial formula is a formula most people use, but it's a naive, unsophisticated formula because you're not mathematically including risk in the discussion. That's all I'm bringing up.

So all of that to say de debt and leverage equals risk. Now, does that prove out in the data over long periods of time? Well, it does because when we interview interviewed 10,167 millionaires and I'll send you a copy of the book Baby Steps Millionaires, which has the white paper of the research in the back of it, and you can go through it.

millionaires, the number of them that said, "I became a millionaire by

borrowing money at my house on my house or not paying off a student loan at a low interest rate and investing the difference." The number of people that said that caused me to become a millionaire, Sam, it was precisely zero.

None of them did it. They all said what

your wife said. They all said, "I'm getting out of debt and with the lowered risk and the increased cash flow because I don't have debt payments, I'm going to use the increased cash flow to build wealth and the sustainability of this is very high because I've lowered my risk quotients." And this is a real fancy long diet tribe to say, "Sam, your wife's right.

It's true. Yeah, she's right.

>> Sorry, bud. You lose.

>> And again, >> if I woke up in your shoes, I'd sell your house and I'd pay off your student loans today and I buy me another house with cash and I'd kiss my wife on the lips and say, "Thank you, Jesus. I married a good woman." >> Yeah, that's so true. Yeah. Because the 190k cash >> Oh, you're in such a good position.

You've done so many things right. And this is almost a esoteric philosophical

argument. It's really not really a big but but you've got to work this through because the problem is you're going to extrapolate. You're going to magnify whatever your value system is here. So if your value system is Sam's and you're going to continue to borrow money into it, all of that crap I just laid out there that's all true. >> Yeah. >> Is going to take you down eventually.

>> That's right. Cuz you'll keep doing >> and if you go her way, which is grandma's way, >> Yeah. It doesn't feel as sophisticated doing finance major, >> but it's actually technically more sophisticated. H, isn't that interesting? >> Yeah. Then you end up with a high sustainability, high cash flow, lowrisk environment. And it's not about risk tolerance. It's about what works in the end.

[Music]

Heat. [Music]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Applause]

Heat.

[Music] Elijah is in Oklahoma. Hi, Elijah. How

are you?

>> I'm good. How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. What's up, sir?

>> Hey, so me and my wife um not too long ago decided to go ahead and start doing the baby steps. Um we're still in baby step one. It hasn't been that long since we decided. Um but the reason I was calling today is because we did lease a car about a year ago. I've been listening to for a little while and I know that's a no no, but we did do it and um we're upside down on it about

$10,000 and so we're kind of in a pickle

and I was just calling you guys to see if I should just ride the lease out and and you know see how you know figure it out when it ends or if if there's something I can do in the meantime to kind of get us in a better position.

>> Okay. What kind of car is it?

It's a 2025 Chevy Equinox.

>> Okay.

Um, how long is the lease?

>> Uh, I believe it's 3 years. So, coming up October will be one year. So, we'll still have a couple years on it. >> And how much is your monthly payment?

>> Uh, 645.

>> Okay. So, it's good. It takes 14,000 to ride the lease up.

15,000. Yeah, it's not all 15. Yeah, give or take. >> Yeah. And um

Okay. I'm not sure. I want you to double

check your numbers on the $10,000 upside down. That sounds wrong after one year.

>> Okay. Well, we had I had another vehicle that I had leased previously. And again,

I know it shouldn't have done it. >> You rolled you rolled the negative into this one from my Yes.

>> Okay. So, when you call, did did you

call you called to get a payoff? Did they give you the early buyout number on

the lease or the total number on the lease?

>> Um, I believe it was a total number.

>> I didn't ask. >> You need the You need the early buyout.

If I wrote you a check today to pay the

car off and own it, what is the number today?

because I think that's going to be less than 10,000 with the numbers you're giving me.

>> Okay. >> Might not be, but it could be. Okay.

That's the first thing I want to do. All right. So, here's the thing. We know if you write a check for 15,000, you can drive the car for two years.

>> Uhhuh. >> That's your numbers today. We know that number. Okay. 645* 24. Okay. And so, we

know that's where that's going to take us now. Uh, and so that's our worstc

case scenario. And then you turn it in at the end of the lease, like you said, ride the lease out. >> Okay, that's our worst case. Now, if we sell the car, and in order to sell the car, we have to write a $10,000 check,

then we could have driven the car for two more years for only $5,000 difference.

>> Okay. >> I'd probably ride the lease out if that's the case. So, if your 10 number is correct, I'm going to ride the lease out because you're not making enough headway on this versus you get the full

use of the car if you pay the 15.

>> Yeah. >> If I only if I write a check for 10, I don't have the car for two years.

And so, really, I get the use of the car for the difference, which is five in that scenario. Now, I think you're going to find it to be less. Let's call it seven. And if you could get out of it for seven, would I get out of it?

Um, yeah, I probably would. That's like 10 months payments and then I'm free from the other month's payments.

Um, but I don't know how much negative equity you rolled and I don't know which numbers you're you're getting. And of course, you got to compare this to the actual value of the car. How did you value the car?

Uh, well, I had I called some dealerships and and gave them all the information and they they told you what they would pay for it.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> See, that's that's the wholesale number.

You could sell the Equinox to an individual.

>> Yes. Yeah. >> And if you did that, is it seven or is it five difference? Yeah, probably. Cuz

that that's a wholesale number you got.

So, the second So, first thing you got to do to figure out your real numbers is you got to call the uh finance department. Right? That's your 1-800 number on your payment book, okay? Or on your website for payments. A and talk to him and say, "I need the early buyout.

If I write a check today, what's the

payoff today? I need that number. I

think it's less than 10." Okay. Then the second number you need, go to kellybluebook kbb.com or edundscar guide, either one, and look up the um private sale value of your

car, not the trade-in value. Cuz when a dealer buys a car from you, Elijah, they buy it to resell at a profit.

>> Okay? >> And so if they buy that car for 20, that means they plan to sell it for 25.

>> Okay. Got >> Which means you could have sold it to an individual for 23.

If that's the case, then that's a that's a you know, that's probably your difference. Something like that with that equinox somewhere in there.

>> Yeah. I I'm sitting here listening to this and and you know it's just a a reminder to not get sucked into whatever the decision was. There was an emotion there because here's a young guy who's going man we messed up and now you got

to try to wade through this and yeah as as you were laying this out I just I feel legit compassion and there is such

an emotional pull. It seems like such a good idea the lease idea and then when you actually get stuck with it and the pit in your stomach or your chest of that 600 and What? I think I wrote $645

a month payment. >> Yeah, that's a lot.

>> That's That's a heavy weight. And now he doesn't have a ton of options because I don't I mean, I'd love for him to try to sell it on on the open market to somebody, but not a lot of people in today's economy are looking for a 2025 Chevy Equinox. You try it, but you may

have to just bite the bullet on this.

>> There's a guy named Elijah that bought one. >> That's right. >> But the uh um somebody bought him, but yeah, he leased it, right? that, you know, I think you bring up a good point, too, that um when you're excited about

buying something >> or you're in a what feels like a desperate situation and you're buying something, you need to push pause.

>> Yeah. >> In both cases and wait overnight. And here's the lens I think Ken, you're bringing up that's very smart. Here's the lens to look at it. Say, "All right,

is this a good decision 10 years from

now?" >> Yeah. If I'm 26 years old, will the 36-y

old version of me be pissed at the 26-y

old version? >> Way of looking at it, >> if that if that 36-y old version of me is going to look back and go, I'm going to choke you, you little, you know, and um because you're just being impulsive and excited and you like that new car leather smell, all that stuff. And um

you know, you got stuck in it or you're feeling scared and and you're scared about nothing.

>> You're acting like this is a big deal. It's not a big deal. And that's what perspective gives you when you pan back >> and you say out there 10 years, 15 years, 30 years.

>> Middle class people say, "How's this going to affect me three years from now?" >> Yeah. >> Poor people say, "Thank God it's Friday." >> That's right. That's right. >> Oh god, it's Monday. >> Yeah, that's right. >> And so, and Zig Ziggler used to say, "Poor people have big TVs. Rich people

have big libraries." >> Mhm. >> You know, so it's a long-term thinking

thing. A and you know, so you know,

don't think like poor people.

>> Yeah. And if you want to be rich people, start thinking like rich people and you'll become rich people in America.

>> That's right. By the way, here's a notion in the 24-hour pause that Dave recommended, actually go home and run the numbers on what a $645 a month

payment is going to do to your expenses.

A lot of people don't do that. They're on the car lot, right? And there's a negative emotion or an excited emotion that drove them to the car lot. They got a salesperson. all the things.

Endorphins are exploding when they sit in the car, when they drive it, and they wonder what it's going to feel like, what am I going to look like? And nobody sits there and goes, "What's $645 a month going to feel like?" >> Yeah. Well, the number of times somebody gets a $500 a month raise and celebrates it with a new $750 a month payment. It's

just Yeah, that's a great point.

>> It's the same exact thing. >> What are we doing here, folks? >> The same exact thing. Yeah.

It falls into all of that. And >> point being, Elijah, you're not the only one. Most of us have done this dumb thing you did. Yeah.

>> Uh, we love you. We're proud of you for turning it around. Get those two numbers, the actual private sale value and the early buyout. Compare those to the $15,000 number to keep the car and then ask yourself, is it worth it to be set free?

If you're only going to save $1,000 or $2,000, drive the thing through the lease.

it today.

[Music]

[Music]

Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 4:18 and 19. But the path of the just is like the shining sun that shines ever brighter into the perfect day. The way of the wicked is like darkness. They do not know what makes them stumble.

Theodore Roosevelt said, "Knowing what's right doesn't mean much unless you do what's right." Sarah is with us in Grand

Rapids. Hey Sarah, what's up?

>> Hi Dave. I want to thank you for walking with me every day. I listen to you on my walks and I pray. So thank you.

>> Well, thank you. I knew I was getting some exercise.

Um, I am debtree, but um I make about

55,000 and um I'm just wondering at what point can I should I help my daughter buy a

car or purchase windows for my house or go on a vacation >> when you have the money?

>> Yeah.

Yeah. So, that's what I figure out.

Um, I think according to you, I probably

need to save more. So, >> well, I don't know. I mean, I don't know why what I told you on your walk, but um

>> Yeah. Yeah. Give us a picture.

>> But, uh, I mean, you're debtree. You have an emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses, right?

>> Um, I have about 12,000. Yeah.

>> Is that 3 to six months of expenses?

>> Yeah, probably the lower end of that.

Yeah. >> All right. Then you we have an emergency fund in place. And then do you have any more money saved than that? No.

>> No, not much. No. >> When you have money saved, do you buy windows or when you have money saved, we buy daughter a car. By the way, it won't hurt for daughter to be working. And

you know, maybe she pays for half of this car. Maybe you put in a little help or you put in $1,000 $2,000. She puts in $1,000 $2,000 car gets her a little teenage hooptie. Right.

>> Right. Well, yeah. There. Yeah. That's a whole issue. But yes, >> why is that an issue?

>> Well, I gave uh when I went through one of my divorces, my um ex-husband promised both my daughters a car. So, I ended up >> So, I I gave one of my daughters a car, but I made her pay half, but I gave that money to the other daughter. So I um

think then if that daughter was and she hasn't bought a car so and I'm driving her back and forth to school in Ann Arbor so it's a lot of driving and and I have a 45minute commute as well.

>> You gave her cash for a car and she didn't use it for a car.

>> Well she still has the cash but she just

is saving it. So um >> how much money does she have?

Um, she has she has about $6,000.

>> Just go buy a dad gum car.

>> But I only gave her 2,000. So, >> okay, that's fine. She can go buy a car.

>> What's the point? Your ex-husband hasn't got anything to do with this. That's why we call him X. >> I Yeah, but I but I gave the other

daughter half the I made her pay half the value of that car. >> Well, so what? You don't have any money.

>> Okay. $6,000 daughter, get a $6,000 car.

Other daughter, that's the way it went down in the divorce. If your ex-husband wants to put some money in, that's fine, but you don't have any money. No.

>> And you're not need to be commuting for a kid that's got $6,000 in the bank and you're driving around half of Egypt up there.

>> Ann Arbor's a long way from Grand Rapids. That's insanity.

>> I know. >> Get that kid's butt in a car. Tell her to be up. Get get up and drive herself down there. Sarah, I think you got to get to a point where you realize you are going to disappoint your daughter at some point. And when we have real reasons for the disappointment, like Dave's saying, you're just going to have to own that. You I feels like you're in this crazy cycle right now trying to please, trying to make everybody happy and you don't have enough money to get windows in your house,

>> right? >> So, start taking some initiative. I'm gonna help you a whole bunch in this one call. This is even better than our walk.

Okay. So, here here the one call. You ready? You tell your daughter to go buy a car cuz you're not driving her anymore

and you I'll help you go pick out a car.

Okay, that now that one's done. And let

me tell you what what you just got back.

Two hours a day you just got back >> and all the gas money and all the gas.

And that's going to help you save up a lot of money for your windows. >> Mhm. >> This is just miracle right here. It's a miracle. I'm so glad you called. And uh we also found you some overtime opportunities or a second job opportunity now that you're not driving all over Michigan. >> Now that you're not Ubering a kid that has the money to buy her own car.

>> Yeah.

Wow. I love to disappoint my kids when I'm right. You know, I like, you know, when I'm right or it makes common sense, it's like, yeah, I'm disappointing you right now. >> I used to tell them all the time, like, look, you got to have something to tell your therapist when you're 30. So, we're just going to go ahead and cover that now. Okay. >> Come on. Everybody needs a struggle.

Everybody needs a struggle. Everybody needs some some dad issues. So, I'm going to give you some dad issues right now. >> Oh, that's good. >> Answer is no. >> Nope. Nope. Let me get let me help you with that. I'm going to open out the big box of Nope.

>> So true, though.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's tough.

>> And poor little Rachel survived, didn't she? >> And poor little Daniel and Denise, they survived. It's just amazing. They're resilient little creatures. >> They are. >> It's amazing what they can come through.

Yeah. Poor little thing. Mommy ain't driving her all the way to Dad Gum Ann Arbor from Grand Rapids.

>> Good lord.

>> Lot of lot of guilt and shame. >> I'm gonna open up a big old box of Nope.

>> Here, let me give you a present. Nope.

>> Nope.

>> Happy birthday. >> Right. Yeah. >> Carrie is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hey, Carrie. What's up?

>> Hi. I just had a quick question for you.

Um, I recently got married and we each had a house before we got married and we're just trying to figure out what to do to maximize essentially the growth on

my house. Um, avoiding capital gains maybe. >> You're not going to have any capital gains. You've lived in it.

>> Well, if we rent it out.

>> Oh, no. I just considering >> I'd sell it.

>> No details needed. Just sell it.

>> Well, the details the details are I'm making the assumption that you have mortgages on both of these.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Yeah. No, I don't need another mortgage payment. I got a husband. So, that's enough. So, now we're going to now we're going to let's combine our households. Move in one of them. Take the money from the other one. Pay down the one you're going to live in. Pay off your debts the one you're going to live in. Walk your baby steps with the one you're going to live in from the equity of the old one. If you if you tell me

I'm wrong and they're both paid for and you got a million dollars in your 401k, I might change my answer.

>> Not that much, but we're we're in a good spot. Are they both about using it as an investment? Are they both paid for?

No. >> Do you have the money to pay both of them off today?

>> No. >> Okay. Then don't keep it.

>> Okay. >> Because essentially you've defaulted into I borrowed money to buy a rental property.

>> That's what that's the default that you backed into and I'm going to avoid that mistake. And so that that's I I'm not

trying to just rush the answer and say there's an answer that your your situation is not different. Your situation's got its nuances without a doubt. But I'm not going to lead you into borrowing money to buy a rental property. And if you keep a property that has debt on it, that's you backed into it and had the exact same effect.

>> And and I want to point out that when we talk to so many people like this and they think, "Oh, this is a great investment." You start running through the actual numbers of what you make.

There's not much there for the headache.

>> Now all of a sudden, you're a landlord >> in a new marriage and it's just never worth the squeeze. I shouldn't say never.

okay now I own $700 million in real estate right now.

That's where I get that formula from of barely breaking even. I would know what I'm talking about is what I'm saying. Yes, we own a bunch of houses. We own a bunch of commercial property. We own this campus that we're sitting in and so on. Okay. And so the deal is that in in

the real estate world, you have your gross rent potential, the maximum if it stays rented the whole time, minus vacancy, right? Minus credit loss, which is people who don't pay and you have to remove them and then you never get your money. minus repairs, the heating and air that goes out, the roof that leaks, the floor that has a creep, you know,

the mold scare, whatever the 9 million things are that's going to go wrong with that house in a year, minus taxes, minus

insurance, minus your payment. Tada. You didn't really make any money. You did a lot of work for a hundred bucks.

And you took a lot of risk for a hundred bucks. And that's where most of these things shake out. to Ken's Point. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 46. Don’t Let Panic Derail Your Plan | September 10, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hzme1h4DLs) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:08:19 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal's broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the front row seat on Ramsey Network is my co-host today. Open phones here at8255225.

Shay is in Nashville. Hi Shay, how are you? >> Hey there. I'm so well. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um I'm just in an interesting situation right now. I just found out I'm expecting >> Yay.

I'm Is that your first? >> It's with my husband, of course. What was that? >> Is that your first baby?

>> Yes. >> Cool. How old are you?

>> I'm 23. >> Awesomeness. Cool. Okay. Wonderful news.

>> Yeah. So, the thing is, um, it's not

planned, so we don't have our finances fully in order. Mhm.

>> Um and with me out of work um when the

time comes um we will be short um of our

budget. So if I could just get any

advice on anything else we're missing.

>> Yeah. >> On what else we could do? >> Yeah. It just got real.

>> Yes.

>> Why are you out of work? >> Well, she's saying when she has the baby, right? >> Yes. I'm in work right now. >> Oh, you are? I misunderstood.

>> It is getting tough already. Yeah, all the nausea. >> Yeah, you got got a little morning sickness going, huh, kiddo?

>> All right, this is so fun. All right, so I distinctly remember >> like it was yesterday. It wasn't, but like it was yesterday that when I graduated from college and got my first

uh adult job, I felt like an adult. we

got married.

I felt a little bit more like an adult, but nothing scared the crap out of me like the first baby on the way.

>> It's the same way for me. >> Yeah. Okay. And so what little was left of your former high school, college,

freewheeling, partying or not, but just

not not worrying about responsibilities.

What little was left of that is now gone, right?

>> I I suppose so.

>> So, now it's time to get real serious about your careers >> and real serious about the grown-up stuff like making some money, having some money for you and this kid and figuring out how to do this. And that's why you're calling. I'm so proud of you.

Way to go. Because you're reacting to a natural anxiety that we all have had.

any of us that have had a baby, unless you're psychotic, when you have a and b when the baby actually comes, it's going to be another one. By the way, it's going to another level of seriousness.

It's like a whoa, this is I'm now in charge of a life. I have a real burden

here. I have a real responsibility here.

You await here. You're going to feel it again even when when when uh when Junior

enters the world. So, I'm so This is so awesome. So, what this means is probably

more than ever before in your life, you're going to get real serious about making some money.

>> Yep. >> That's all that's what all that leads to. So, what do you do for a living?

>> I refurbish furniture and woodworking in

Nashville.

>> You don't make any money, do you?

>> Oh, I make a lot of money. >> Oh, do you really? Okay, good.

>> I do. >> Okay. What's What's a lot of money? What are you making? Well, um I was um cut

back because I left work full-time. Um

so I'm currently making $24 an hour at

32 a hours a week.

>> Well, that's not a lot of money.

>> In my mind, it has been.

>> Okay. But you're you're saying you're scraping you're scraping by and you're you're worried that Okay. And what's your husband make?

>> He's making um 22

hundred a month. >> Yeah. Y'all are starving to death. What does he do?

>> He works in a warehouse um that supplies

apartments with furniture and utilities and >> how old is he?

>> He's 23. >> Okay. All right. And so he just took a job so y'all could have food and lights and water and that that's and he's not afraid of work. That's a good man. But now it's time to not do that anymore. It's time to take a career position and start thinking about what am I going to be doing when I'm 30 that makes $100,000 a year, >> right? >> Both of you.

And if you're going to be refinishing furniture, it's cuz you own a refernishing furniture company. That's the only possible way you're still doing that when you're 30.

Cuz you're not going to do artsy fartsy and make a living >> working for somebody else. Not going to work. >> Yeah. I I'm curious, what is his uh what is his goal? Has he stated a professional idea or two or three to you? >> He's had a few ideas and he he really

would like to get into home inspections.

>> Okay. >> Um he just he loves um home supply.

>> Is he is he handy? Is he good fixing stuff or doing stuff? Does he find that he enjoys doing things like that?

>> He's not so much handy, but he's very intellectual and he loves logistics.

>> Uhhuh.

And he has no uh formal training, right?

You guys just kind of out of high school. What's his background educationally? >> Yeah, we Yeah, we are both out of high school, got jobs, and have worked our ways up in the company so far.

>> Well, you know, when you look long term here, um I would run those numbers and look at what what a future looks like inspecting homes. That's a little bit of a niche. No, I think there are people who do very well at it once they consolidate a lot of realtors and things in an area and they become go-to and then they can scale themselves. But the reason I asked the question about the hands and is he good at things like that?

your husband's shoes, um I'm going to look at trades. I'm going to look at some of that talent that he has and we're going to give you the book Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It's got the Get Clear Assessment in it. I really want him to take it like you to take it. We'll give you Well, Kelly, let's give him a book each there or two codes, one book. Here's the deal.

He needs to be looking at the trades right now because there's so much upward mobility uh for him to to make much more

than he's making right now at 22 bucks an hour. And secondly, >> 2200 a month is worse than 22 bucks.

>> That's right. 2,200 a month. But more importantly, there's a path to ownership in the trades right now. And if he has any kind of talent in that area, um I

would be looking at that if I were him because of the opportunities. >> Yeah. So, there's two two parts to the equation. We're going to send you that book and you guys are going to take the assessment and I want you to develop a longterm game plan for both of you.

What are you going to be doing when this kid is 10 that makes that makes a lot of money for your family >> that and that you enjoy and that you're passionate about? And they it's all three are congruent. Okay. The second part of the equation though is what are you going to be doing in the next nine months?

>> You guys need to take six different jobs. All of you. You need to work like crazy people and pile up as much cash as you can pile up right now.

now. Right. >> Right. And so you got to get ready.

And the way you get ready is you you you build a storm cellar and you fill it with money and you go work work work work work work work work work work work work for like crazy for a short period of time. >> If you have family in the area that can help watch the baby, you could spin off this woodworking that you do and work full-time or close to full-time if you schedule, you know, your work around weekends, odd hours because it's really projectbased. That's how you can make sure we don't miss any money once baby arrives.

You got to start thinking like that. >> Yeah.

>> I agree. But my point is, can she now do that for herself? That's right. And then set her own hours because these are project based. >> So, it's time. It got real. That's the the summation of the call. It got real.

And the short term, you got to pile up some cash and get ready. Long-term, it's now time to do big boy, big girl jobs, careers, not just I take a job that pays

me some money so I can make it to the weekend.

[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids, and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And Oh, you're telling me.

And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance going to replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

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[Music]

Brandy is with us in Georgia. Hi,

Brandy. How are you?

>> I'm good, Mr. Ramsey. How are you doing today? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, well, I've been married for 25 years

and um, I don't work at the time. Uh,

I'm taking care of my grandson, which my husband totally, you know, is on board with that, but I get no money unless I have to ask for it. And we are debtree.

Uh, we owe nothing. And I just feel like

anything I say, he doesn't want to take my advice for anything. Like I feel like we need to sell our house now cuz it's a bigger house and we don't really need all the room and we could sell this and we have a really good life. I mean I feel like um it's I don't know. I just his daughter instead of his wife.

>> O uh how can we help?

>> Well, I just I don't know. I mean what should I like we end up separating like two years ago and I found out it was actually what he was worth. We was worth like I don't know anything. If he was to pass away tomorrow, I wouldn't know what to do. I don't know what's in his bank account. I have no access to anything.

My name's not on his business. My name's not on his debit, you know, card. I can't use his debit card. And we've been married for 25 years. I'm like, you know, and it really aggravated me when we separated cuz my attorney, you know, gave me all this information on, you know, what he's got. And I was just like, I feel like I deserve that, you know, more. Well, >> where's the marriage now?

uh works together. Um I take care of my grandson. I can work like if I you know and I've even said, "Do you want me to work?" He's like, "No, I want you to take care of our grandson." You know, I think it's wonderful that we can do that. But it's like I don't get paid for taking care of my grandson. So I'm have to always ask him for money, you know?

>> Does he give you money when you ask?

What's that transaction like?

>> He does. Yeah, he does. But he only gives me money for what I need. Like if I'm going to get groceries, he'll give me like $200. I'm like, $200? Don't buy

anything, you know, and and my fear is I'm going to get up to the counter and not have enough money and have to put everything back. And I know he's got the money to give me. That's what hope so, you know, it makes me so aggravated at them. >> Well, what happened over a twoyear or you separated two years ago. What happened as a result of separating?

Because it doesn't sound like anything has changed.

>> It hadn't. No, we And honestly, I feel like we got >> Why are you not still separated if nothing changed? >> I know. Well, financially it was so expensive having to pay attorney fees, which now he had to pay me $750 a week alimony during that time, but I had to

get a place to live. So, I didn't realize how expensive things was cuz I was, you know, we didn't had no debt.

So, I went from not having no debt to having like, you know, 300 like probably

$3,500 a month that I had to pay, you know, for my rent. >> So, you went back to jail in or because it was too expensive to be free. That's what what's that's what's that's what's that's what I'm hearing. I Yeah, I just love them so much. I It's crazy. I know.

>> So, why did you call us? I'm so confused. What What do you want us to do? >> Am I Well, I just feel like am I in the wrong for wanting, you know, have >> No, you're not in the wrong, but you're not doing anything about it.

>> I know. That's why I called you because my >> I can't do anything about it. You got to do something about it.

>> What can I do? What should I do?

>> I I think you've got to decide if you want to be married to someone that treats you this way.

>> And you're going to have to sit down. My recommendation would be that the two of you sit down with a good marriage counselor >> and that Bubba hears for the first time in his 25 freaking years that he's mistreating his wife >> and he feels he says I don't manage >> I don't care what he says.

>> You actually care what he says, but I don't. >> I know. >> So you need to not care what he says.

You need to go see a marriage counselor cuz he he sucks as a husband.

>> He's a horrible husband. I feel like >> I agree cuz I had to go to the doctor yesterday. >> Darling, you're just going to talk my arm off and do nothing. I can tell I can tell exactly what's going to happen with you.

>> Yeah, he's you got to decide what you're going to do, >> okay? And quit telling me stories about him. Are you going to actually get on the phone and call a marriage counselor and go sit down with one? You need to do that today.

Shut up. Live with it. Okay? If you're

not going to do nothing about it, shut up about it. But if you're going to do something, then we'll we'll pray for you and back you because and yes, you're correct, honey, that that that the situation's weird and he's not a good husband. He's mistreating his wife. And the problem is he's probably not a bad guy. He's probably just doesn't know how to do it. He probably doesn't know how to be a good husband. He thinks he's taking care of you. He may be that dumb.

And so you, you know, we're gonna have to educate him and teach him that, you know, this is this is emotional, financial abuse, >> dude. And so you need to involve your

wife in the decisions. Let her have the dignity of being one of the two adults in the household. And but that's a marriage counseling thing, honey. I can't dictate that. I can't I don't have a magic wand over here to tap him on his little head and say, "That's it, dude.

Now you're magically healed." I can't do that from here. But you're going to have to work on it. And I don't think you're going to. You just talk about it all the time.

>> Yeah. You've married a control freak and then you've let him get more and more control over 25 years and then you summoned up some guts, which I admire two years ago, but then it ended up being a pump fake. >> Yeah. >> You just pump faked or he called your bluff.

He played to your greatest fears as my guess, not knowing the details, and you caved. And you've convinced yourself that I love him so much. And I don't think that's the case. >> That's enabling.

>> So >> I love him so much I'm willing to be abused. Yeah. >> Come on. He's warped. I don't think he's dumb. I think he's warped because he's really unhealthy. And I'm not attacking him. And I'm not making excuses for him.

But you've got to shake him. He needs to

be shaken. >> Yeah. If this guy was my buddy, I'd be boxing his ears, man. I'd be giving him a hard time. >> That'd be fun. >> That'd be an interesting conversation, wouldn't it? Of course, he wouldn't have been my buddy because he wouldn't because see that kind of >> That's true. >> That wouldn't have worked out. That wouldn't have worked out either. John is in Nashville. Hey, John. How you doing?

doing. How about yourself, Mr. Ramsey?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Um, well, I'm having some issues. I'm 20

years old. Um, I have a one-year-old kid

and a wife. Um, and I'm in so like deep

debt to the point where I think I'm going to have to go bankrupt. >> How What kind of debt have you got, honey?

>> Um, I have 32,000 in student debts for my wife. She's currently in school. Um, and then I have >> So, you're running up, you have $32,000 in student debt, and you're continuing to run up student loan debt.

>> Uh, no. So, that's >> who's paying for her school?

>> I am. Uh, she's a stay-at-home mom.

>> With what? >> We have a one-year-old.

>> Um, with me working.

>> Oh, okay. And what other debt do you have, Sure? >> Yeah.

>> Um, and then I have two vehicle loans

out. Um, and on my truck I'm two months

behind and I owe >> So How much do you owe on your truck?

>> I owe 11,700.

>> Okay. And what do you owe on the other car? What do you owe on the other car?

>> Uh, 10,000.

>> Okay. And what other debts do you have?

Credit cards. >> Um, I have 3K in personal loans and then

about 1,000 in credit card.

>> Okay. All right. And what do you make, sir?

Um, I make $3,500 a month.

>> Okay. All right.

Um, okay.

You're you're not bankrupt. You're 20 years old. You have a baby and you're scared and you've done some dumb things that have put you in a corner, but it's not bankrupted you. Okay. You have cars that you can't afford.

Okay? You can't afford these cars.

Obviously, that's why you're behind on the truck. You do not have any organization to your money. no budget or anything else. And student loans are not bankruptable. And you can't bankrupt on the cars unless you pay the bill. If you

don't pay the bill, you give up the car in bankruptcy.

>> Yeah. >> So, if you have no cars and you still

got the student loans, you could be bankrupt. But it really wouldn't do you much good. You could just sell the cars and still have the student loan and not be bankrupt.

>> Gotcha. >> What's the truck worth?

Um, it whenever they pulled it, I had

the loan out for uh 12750.

>> What's the truck worth?

>> Um, it's probably worth 9,000.

>> Okay, good. And who do you owe the money to?

>> Uh, the bank.

>> Local bank.

>> Okay. And what about the $10,000 car?

What's it worth?

>> Um, it's we paid 16 for it. Um, I gave,

you know, 6,000 down.

>> Good. You need to sell that car this week.

>> Okay. >> And your wife can't be in school. You can't afford to pay for school right now. When your truck payments are behind, your wife's not going to school.

>> Yeah. >> You don't do that. Okay. You got to get organized here.

We're going to help you, man. I've been where you are and been scared with a little baby and didn't know what to do. We're going to put a fin a Ramsey coach in your corner at my expense. We're going to pay for it and we'll put you into Financial Peace University and you and your wife are going to do that.

You're going to have to sell everything and you're going to have to work like a maniac and you can turn this around and we can show you how.

[Music]

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Blake's with us in Asheville, North Carolina. Hi Blake, how are you?

>> I'm good, Mr. Ramsey. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um, I'm starting a new job next week. I'm leaving my current job tomorrow. >> Wow. Cool. Big deal. Big race.

>> Yeah, big deal. Um, it's it on paper

it's more money. Um, which I'm excited about. >> Why is it on paper and not real?

>> Because it's not in my bank account yet.

>> Oh, cuz it hadn't happened yet. Okay.

>> Yeah, I thought that was a I thought that was a congressman on Meet the Press for a second with that answer. >> On paper. >> On paper. Um, >> the promise is that we're going to get a raise. Okay, I got you. All right.

>> Yeah. Um, about $1,900 more a month

guaranteed. Okay, cool.

>> Um, starting out 25 an hour. It's 4 days

a week, 12 hour shifts, long shifts, but I get the whole weekend off, which is a blessing from what I'm currently doing.

>> Okay. >> Um, so I'm just kind of looking. I want to start investing >> money. I've not had any wiggle room in

my financial situation to start investing. So, I'm kind of just kind of looking where and what I need to do to start start investing. And by the time I'm 60, >> yeah, you'd have some you'd have some money. Good for you. >> So, do you have a 401k at the new place?

>> Um, I'll have to set one up after uh 90 days. >> Okay. Do the Roth 401k.

>> Roth. Okay. >> That means it's going to grow tax-free,

but the money but you're going to pay taxes on the money that you put into it now, which is whoopy dippy. No big deal.

And uh they're going to match it probably. And if they do, they match it with non Roth, which is okay.

>> And pick and pick good growth stock mutual funds.

>> Uh you can go back and listen to this later if you want to, but there's four types of mutual funds we invest in. I invest in, Ken invests in. It's what we teach. Growth, growth in income, aggressive growth, and international.

Those are the four categories you're looking for. and you're looking for long track records, five years or more on those, preferably 10 years or more, but

long track records. And so if you've got two growth funds, you can look at them and go, "Okay, this one has a 10year track record and it is average 12% and

this one has an 8-year track record and it is averaged 11%. Oh, I'm going with the other one." Okay, you know what I'm saying? That's how that's how you're looking at it. It's not real hard. and they can they can show you every bit of that in the HR stuff with your 401k when the 90 days comes up. And we recommend you put 15% of your income, not more,

not less, into your 401k. Now, that is

if you are debtree and have your emergency fund in place of 3 to six months of expenses. Is that true?

>> That is not. >> Okay. Then we don't need to start investing yet. We need a you first investment is to get the debt paid off so that you've got the money to invest.

>> Okay. >> How much debt have you got?

>> I have 36,000 in student loans.

>> Okay. I'm going to attack that like my hair is on fire.

>> Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm in

a good I'm going to be in a good position next month especially to start attacking that. >> Yeah. I mean, you got an extra 1,900 plus you can squeeze your budget down.

So $3,000 in times 12 is 36,000. You're

done in one year.

>> Dang. >> You got you got a $2,000 raise and I'm pulling another thousand out of your party budget and you're going to get out of debt in a year >> and those weekends. So you got some time there. >> Yeah. Go make some money on the weekends. Let's do it even faster. >> Yeah, I do. I I do have a weekend kind of gig. >> Cool. What do you make?

>> Um it's just depending on uh what it is.

I do I work in a production event production. So, I do I got my degree in theater focusing in lighting design. So,

I do like concerts and weddings, corporate events. >> Okay. >> And just depending on the position, it depends on the uh >> Yeah, I'd be working all the time for a short period of time. >> If they don't have one of those gigs going, I'd be doing something else. Okay. >> Lots of stuff going on in your area there in Nashville. Lots of things you can lay your hand to as a temporary thing because the faster you get out of debt, the faster you get to invest, the faster you're wealthy. Hello.

>> Yeah. So that that's the way we're looking at this thing. That's how we're going to go at it. Really good question, sir. Congratulations on moving on up. I like it. I like it. I like it. >> By the way, I just got to say this real quick because we continue to see this stuff on social media and in traditional media about u poll came out from Gallup

just came out yesterday. Uh the American people losing faith in capitalism. Is the American dream alive and well? And all this crap that gets put out there.

And I just want to point out here's a young man who is on the precipice of

realizing the American dream and he's calling in with a question like this. So I just want to contrast all the stuff you hear versus here's a real young man who's got it figured out and he's going to get debtree and he's going to be a multi-millionaire because he's doing this early on. So this is a separate narrative than what you hear on Tik Tok and and Facebook and all the things.

This is the real deal here. So I applaud you, Blake. Uh because you are the numbers change when people do. >> Guys, when you've been reading these things, you're being lied to.

>> Yeah, that's right.

>> The communist professors have put out the poll that capitalism is dead.

>> And the communist professors are on payroll at the college that was financed with your freaking student loans. You need to keep in mind where this crap is coming from. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, capitalism is not dead. As a

matter of fact, it is the best way in

human history at this particular moment in time. You have, if you are right now

in your 20s, you have the most

opportunity to build wealth the fastest

of any time in any period in any

location since man began walking the

earth beside Eve.

Old Adam, remember him? Yeah. since then

all the way to now. This is the best moment in time where I in my 20s right

now broke, I could be a millionaire so

freaking fast it would blind you.

>> There is so much opportunity. That's right. But if you sit around and suck your communist thumb and swine about

capitalism and wages and house prices

while living in your mother's basement typing on your $2,000 iPhone instead of

working your little butt off.

>> Yeah. >> Then you deserve what you get cuz you're signing up for victim mentality. We don't do victim around here. We do victor.

Blake is a victor. That's exactly right. >> He's going to get it. >> Poster child.

>> He That guy right there, man, he's a stud. Let me tell you, if he's single and you got a daughter over in Asheville, you need to try to tell her to find him cuz that one's a keeper right there. That guy's going places, right? You don't want your daughter marrying a dreamer.

They'll be in your basement >> or or or you know, I'm going to I'm going to be I'm going to What do you do? I'm an activist. I pick it against capitalism. Yeah.

Well, that God help me. Geez, get away from my kid.

Those poster boards are making a difference. >> It's just ridiculous. >> You think I make a single decision at Ramsey based on those morons? Absolutely zero. Okay. Just zero.

>> So nobody does. People that are doing things don't have time to watch that garbage. >> That's right. >> You know, so yeah, I get I get aggravated. But you're that's a good point uh Ken that um truthfully the

digital age you can just decide

and I'm in business >> and a minute and a half later you have a website and Shopify will set the stinking thing up and you start selling your little idea and then when it fails you can start another one next week. I mean it's just the most wonderful time to be alive and make money and help

people. >> Yeah. It's an amazing moment in time.

>> Blake just got a promotion and he has got a side hustle on the weekend. If he can do it, you can do it.

>> But he's been destroyed by $36,000 worth of student loan debt. He's hopeless.

He'll never make it. All right. >> He's the system is rigged against poor Blake.

[Music]

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James is in Oklahoma. Hi, James. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey. Uh, we recently came into an inheritance. Um, and we were wondering what to do with the money. We have a small farm and we owe uh we still owe on

it and uh and and that's it. But we

didn't know if we should invest or pay it off. >> Okay. And how much of an inheritance did you receive, sir?

>> 700 uh,000 and there's roughly 330,000

left. That's coming in additionally.

>> So you're going to get a million total.

And um how much is owed on the farm?

Uh the total land is 336

but the house is separate and my student loans. >> How much are your student?

>> 46,000.

>> Okay. So 400,000 clears everything and out of a million.

>> Uh roughly 600 will clear everything.

>> I'm sorry I got lost. You said you had 340,000 on the land and 40,000 in student loans. Is there a house loan, too? >> Yes, there's a house loan, too. >> Oh. Oh, separate. Okay. So, you could be debtree for 600,000, still have 400,000 left over when the smoke clears.

>> Okay, cool. Um, why would you not do

that?

>> Well, we were talking our financial advisor was wanting to invest the 600,000 now and then, uh, so we just didn't know if we should invest and he was saying not to pay off the house because of the percentage and I just didn't really know what to do to get debtree. and then worry about investing or >> Yeah. What's your house? What's your household income?

>> Roughly 200,000.

>> Okay. So, if you had zero payments,

you'd have lots of money to invest, wouldn't you?

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Think you need a new financial advisor.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. This one sucks.

So, yeah. Um Yeah. Honestly, I mean,

>> we have cows, too, that that help make uh the farm payment as well.

>> Well, that's good. That's good. The cows make make money in your pocket if you don't have a payment, right?

>> That's true. Okay. >> Yes. >> All right. Yeah. The the this idea that wealth is built from borrowed money is

mythology. When we actually look at the hard data, we studied 10,167

actual millionaires.

The number of them that said the way I became a millionaire was my financial adviser told me to invest with him

instead of paying off my farm was precisely zero.

10,167 millionaires disagree with your financial advisor.

>> Yes, sir. >> That's what I'm saying. Okay. And so if you take the freed up cash flow that you will have and you quit borrowing money the rest of your life and you have you're going to have approaching a $2 million net worth when this all happens

and a $200,000 income. You're going to be worth 20 30 $40 million dude

when this is over. I mean, if you'll just stay out of debt and keep steadily investing and steadily being generous and paying cash for things from this point forward. And let me ask you, who who passed away that left you this money? >> Uh, my dad. He was a big So, >> he he was a big He was a big what?

>> Fan of yours. >> Oh, okay. So, well, regardless if he was a fan of He's probably a fan of mine because he probably did the stuff I'm talking about long before he even before he even heard of me >> and then he just found me and I agreed with him. >> Does that sound right?

>> Yeah. >> In other words, it's not me, it was him.

And um I I think if he's in heaven and you pay off your farm, I see him smiling. What do you think?

>> No. Yes, sir. I I completely agree.

>> He'll also be smiling when you fire this financial adviser. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And by the way, by the way, that's that's the issue. This financial advisor

you've trusted up until this point and he gave you this advice and yet something in you said, I think I should call Dave today. >> Not doesn't ring with what dad taught me. >> So, I trust the guy.

>> Dad's money I'm getting. I'm going to honor him with this legacy. And this guy, >> yeah, it doesn't feel right. See, you can't be afraid to disappoint. >> The tuning fork of your heart.

>> Yeah. So, disappoint the financial advisor. That's what's going on here.

There's >> I'm happy to disappoint this person.

>> I know you are, but a lot of our callers, we we got to get them to a point where we realize, hey, you already answered this question before you called us. >> Here, here's the other thing.

Unless I miss my guess. This guy that I'm talking to on the phone right now's net worth before the inheritance Yeah.

was greater than the financial advisors.

>> Guaranteed.

the dirt, the cows, everything. All of it. >> This is just just saying. Caroline's in Colorado. Hi, Caroline. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good, thanks. >> Good. How can we help?

>> Um, I'm just I'm feeling a little discouraged. Um, a year ago, my husband and I were on baby step four. We had two full-time jobs, three additional income streams. Um, but in the last 12 months, my husband lost his job. We're down two income streams. Um, we had to deplete our emergency savings, use some retirement funds, and go into debt. And um we are >> we well we I guess I can explain that.

>> You didn't have to, but you did. Why?

>> We were trying to get out of debt by selling one of our properties. Um >> you got into debt, you said.

>> Yes. Because it took us longer to sell the property and we had to put more into it to sell it than we were expecting to.

>> But why did you not just go get the job and replace the income?

>> Uh I'm sorry. Which job? the one he lost. >> Oh, he he did he found another job. Um but it he had to take a pay cut.

>> Okay. There's a lot of have to in this story. All right. And um Okay. How can I

best help, Darling?

>> Well, so we we are net worth millionaires, but we're struggling to get by month to month, and we recently sold one of our rental properties. Um like I said, to get us out of debt, and we're just at a c crossroads and unsure of what the next best move is.

Okay. Um, if you have if you have a net

worth, so so is your household expenses

too high?

>> Um, yes.

>> Okay. So, what are we doing to cut those?

>> I mean, I've I've cut back on everything. Um, >> what's it take for you to live a year?

>> Uh, rough. Well, including the mortgages

that we have, it's around $15,000 a month. >> Okay. So, you're net worth millionaires, but you've leveraged yourself into real estate and gone broke.

>> You need to be selling every piece of real estate you have except your personal residence.

>> Your cash you're not cash flowing on this mill your million-doll net worth is not paying you enough to justify the expenses that you have.

>> Okay. So, but >> you've got debt associated with all this net worth. So, the net worth is invalid.

>> Okay. But my my husband's income isn't

enough for us to to live off of and we need additional >> It is. If you don't need $15,000 a month to live, most people don't.

>> That's ridiculous.

>> Are you catching what we're saying? What's the biggest chunk of the 15? Give us the real numbers.

>> Uh I mean the two mortgages obviously.

>> So what are those two mortgages?

>> Um one is 4,600 and one is 3,400, >> right?

So sell them, >> right? Well, and and that's that's what I'm saying is we did sell a property and we have >> Yeah, but you're I'm not talking about the property you already sold. I'm talking about the one that's killing you right now.

>> You have houses you can't afford.

>> Okay. It's um I mean it's worth 1.8

million and we have about 26.

>> Wonderful. But it's killing you.

And and then do what with the money?

>> Buy a paid for house that has no

mortgages.

>> Okay? >> You know, you you've got debt that's so high that it is invalidate that is creating personal consumption debt on real estate. You have two houses, neither of one of which are rentals, neither one of which are investment properties. You are consuming $8,000, $9,000 a month in mortgage payments. Am I understanding you correctly?

>> Um, yes, sir. We I mean we have a third rent or a third >> I know, but that those properties right there are creating the $15,000 a month nut you want to crack. Correct.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> And you So you bought houses you can't afford, honey. That's what we're saying.

And so get your dad gum outgo where it fits within your income.

And that's called selling these extra houses. You've been living higher on the hog than you can afford.

or than you can afford now anyway.

[Music]

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Chris is in

Wyoming. Hi, Chris. How are you?

>> Good. Yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I just I just wanted to give you guys a call. hard just I mean kind of got going through some struggles and um with debt and um I got fired from my job

on Wednesday and >> Whoa. >> Um so >> that sucks. What happened?

They I they they gave me an evaluation and I I guess I didn't score high enough and I I I think they fired me because of my hearing issues because I was I was born partially deaf and um but I think

they that's part of the reason why they fired me because I couldn't understand things and >> Yeah. You going to speak directly into your phone? Sorry. You got muffled on me there. But you could you had trouble understanding things.

>> What was the job? >> Yeah, I it was I was working at a casino. Um, I was doing surveillance and

um, they just am kind of looking at cameras and answering phones and I think when I just wasn't understanding a lot of stuff that I was being told and um, they didn't tell me they fired me because of my hearing issues, but I I kind of think that's what it was.

>> Well, does the and the reason I'm asking this followup is because this is going to inform maybe some advice we give you going forward. when they went through the evaluation, whether or not they told you that or not, did you agree that you weren't meeting their evaluation points?

>> Um, yeah, I do. I do agree.

>> Listen, you're not speaking directly into your phone again, honey. You don't have to do that. It's muffled.

>> Um, yeah. So, um, yeah, I I do agree

that I I was I was having a hard time understanding things that they were the task that they were giving me.

>> Okay. Okay.

And um so you your biggest crisis is

you're unemployed.

>> Yeah. Um, I'm unemployed and um, my wife

can't work cuz uh, she's she got a she

tore her she tore her femur back when she was in the military and she's using two canes and she hasn't worked for so long and um, so it's just it's been hard

to trying to take care of of her, myself and our three kids and um,

>> are you aware of are you aware of what kind of work that you can do where the hearing is not going to be that big of an issue.

>> Um, for like 15 20 15 to 20 plus years,

I was doing like physical work, like warehouse type work, cuz it really didn't involve a whole lot of I mean, I still had to hear things, but it wasn't as bad as, you know, having to like I didn't have to like answer phones or any type of thing like that. And >> um, so I've been trying to get back into that again. It's just and with winter hours coming up, it's just kind of been more harder to get into that again. How how did you lose your hearing?

>> Um I was born with I was born with it.

Um it come it was genetic.

>> Okay. Do you have hearing aids?

>> Um yeah I do. Um I I went through the the Wyoming workforce and >> but they're not working. >> They were um they they're working. Um

they they they've been a big help. Um but even even after I got the hearing aids with the casino, I was still having a hard time. Um, so I I try to do

everything the best I can and I seem to still have a hard time hearing.

>> Well, the the casino is a very noisy place and even with hearing aids that can be a problem. Well, I'm I'm worried about your location. It seems when you said winter hours that you have limited opportunities due to where you are. Is that what I'm understanding?

>> Yeah. Um cuz I mean I'm I'm in here in

Cheyenne and they usually when winter

starts coming up that's when they kind of a lot of places you know cut back hours and because they're fully staffed and it's harder to get into places and

um >> Sure. How much money do you need to make? What's the bottom line that would just take care of you guys? Just your basic expenses. What do you need?

>> Um I mean my my rent. Um, I mean it it's

my rent, my electric. Um,

I mean I don't have to worry about like gas or anything. >> Give me a number. Do you got a number, a monthly number that you need to live?

>> Uh, and in all honesty, I mean, I I honestly don't know. Um, can't really

figure out a number. Um, it's usually about like I think like 3,000 a month.

That's usually where all my bills are at.

Um because I got two vehicles and then

you know my kids taking care of the expenses for them too and the food and all that stuff. And um >> you have two car payments.

>> Yeah, I have two car payments. I have um I have a my truck payment which is $740

and then my car payment's 360.

I don't know what in the world planet you're on that you think you can afford a $700 truck payment.

>> Uh when I was working with Walmart, um I I got fired from them the same year in January. >> Why did you get fired from Walmart?

>> Um because of my attendance because of the wife's medical issues with her leg and then my mental health. Um I uh I was

leaving a lot and I was calling off a lot because of my mental health. And I ended up after I got fired, I ended up >> What was What's the nature of your mental health problem?

>> Um, well, when my daughter was born, she

um >> No, your mental health problem. What's the nature of your mental health problem? >> Um, I'm I'm depressed.

>> Okay. Um, >> All right. >> And is your wife on military disability?

>> Um, no. She she's been trying to fight with the VA for several years. And

>> are you on any kind Are you on any kind of disability?

>> Uh, no, I'm not. Um, >> okay. >> I I I tried to get on social security and they they they denied me because I I

I finally got the job at the casino and they denied me because uh >> yeah, >> I was um making too much. And so I >> That would that would be true. That would be obvious. Yeah. Okay. So, what we got to do is we got to figure out a career where you can make some basic income and son, you got to sell your truck.

A $780 truck in this picture that you have painted for the last few minutes is insanity.

It's nuts.

So, you got to get rid of the $780 payment. And you guys could go down to one car for that matter. Your wife doesn't work. She's on two canes. I don't think she needs to be driving a lot. So, um, you got and and then you're

going to have to pick up work doing a lot of other stuff until you can land something that's stable. Any good suggestions, Ken?

>> Well, the reason I went that direction of what have you done or what kind of work is because you're going to have to get back into that space and what I heard was a lot of limitations. But right now, you can't accept limitations.

I understand depression is real. That's a real thing. I get it. But you're going to have to fight through that because you are the person that this entire

household is relying on. So yeah, manufacturing, warehouse work, I'm showing up and and I'm going to go back to Walmart and I'm going to say, "Hey, here's what happened to me. I'm going to power through it." I mean, anything and everything right now. Two and three jobs. You have got to get enough money that maybe seeing not maybe I'd see a therapist. I I'd scrape enough money together where you get some help because a professional can help you uh with some tools to power through the depression and um it's this is desperation time.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry you're facing all this. >> So sorry. >> Uh I'm I'm 100% sure we got to get your

income up and I'm 100% sure you need to sell your truck. And when you do those two things, uh, you create a sustainable situation mathematically and that gives you the opportunity to work through the emotional struggles that you got. So

>> keep it up, dude. Keep pushing. Keep fighting. You can do it.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Carlos in Texas and he gives us some context from a Newsweek article that I'll read first and then his question. The federal government will accept Vinmo payments from citizens who want to help pay off the national debt.

The Treasury has begun accepting Vinmo transactions as contributions toward the national debt, which currently stands at

$36 trillion.

I I made it through that, James, without laughing. Uh, but now Carlos's question based on this excerpt. What is your opinion on the new option of being able to voluntarily Vinmo the US government

to help pay down the national debt?

Well, my opinion is comes from one of my favorite movies uh where Anthony Hopkins

uh plays this old man who's had a stroke uh and now it hits I said it's one of my favorite movie movies. What is that movie where Brad Pitt's in it and he's the old and they're coming for his land.

>> Somebody bail me out, James. What is that movie name? >> Uh, Legends of the Fall. Legends of the Fall. >> And they come over and his son comes up to old Anthony Hopkins who suffered a stroke and he has a chalkboard around his neck. That's how he communicates with his family. And they say, "Dad, they're offering us land. The government's offering us money for our land." And he says, his mouth is all crooked. He leans in. He says, "Screw

screw." [Laughter] That's my answer. That's my answer. Are

you kidding me? The government came up with this idea that we're going to Venmo my money when they already tax me too much. Dave, my blood pressure is unhealthy. >> It's not good for you. >> Take the ball away from me. >> This is bad for you, Ken. I could tell this is not You know, your mental health now, Ken. >> Dave, I need to take the rest of the show off. My mental health is too

fragile right now. I I've not heard this. Have you heard of this? >> Yeah. Yeah. I think it's wonderful because there's always some idiot out there who says um that we're, you know,

everyone should pay their fair share and I would be willing to pay more. Someone always says that when they're talking about tax the rich, right? Oh, sure. I >> so I always wanted them I you know, we had that argument many years ago here in the state of Tennessee. we ran a governor out of office that tried to bring in a state income tax and um

>> um he was confused and the people here didn't want that and so glorious >> anyway anyway so yeah but there were all these libby that were saying you know like oh well I would pay more and like well you can just send them a check you doofus >> right >> and so if you want to pay more because you're just think this that this is the whole thing's such a great operation then send yeah sign up for Vinmo baby have at But the rest of us who have something akin to common sense would be like, "Screw it." >> Right?

It's the dumbest idea I've ever heard. >> You got to be kidding.

49% of Americans pay zero >> That's right. >> federal income tax.

Do you know that 51% of us carry the whole thing?

That's not helping my blood. >> Zero federal income tax.

>> So, please don't talk to me about fair share ever again.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I I'll help you with this. So,

everybody ought to be paying something.

>> Yeah. >> I don't care if you make $5 and you pay a nickel. I don't care. You ought to be paying a little something. Everybody pays a little something. And you know, and so we can start arguing about flat tax now. And that would be fair if I pay

10% of my income and you pay 10% of your income and I make a lot more so I pay a lot more. That's fair. Um the way it is now is not fair. So um but it's not

equitable. But anyway, so yeah, if you want to pay some more into the government, I think it if you're the type of person that believes this is a good idea, I think you should do it.

>> You know what? That's actually true. If you're that stupid, then you shouldn't have any money anyway. So go ahead and send it to the same organization that ran up the debt to 36 trillion and steaming towards 40 trillion. It's the most it's just nonsensical. So sure. Yeah, you should. Yeah, you should do that.

>> You know, they just did that to just just for you and me. >> Is that a fake question? Is that just to see if >> 100% real? But I knew it would be gold with y'all, too.

>> I feel like I need a whole bottle of Pepsid AC just chewing on them after that question. Yikes.

>> Rashelle is in Texas. Hi, Michelle. How are you?

>> Hey, it's uh not Relle. She chickenened out. I'm her husband.

>> Okay. So, what's the uh what's the what's the chicken husband's name?

What's your name? >> Uh the chicken husband's name is Charles. >> Hey, Charles. How are you, man?

>> I'm good. And thank you for taking our call. I've been listening to you guys for a long time. >> Thank you. How can we help, sir?

>> Uh so, I'm active duty military. Uh and my wife and I, we we're going to be getting transferred out to Hawaii for our next unit. Uh we're kind of at an

impass right now. We're finished with baby step five and uh we're considering

buying a house, but as it sits right now with the math that we've done, it seems like buying a house in Hawaii uh is going to tie up so much of our liquidity. It just seems like it'll do better invested in good growth stock mutual funds. We're hoping to get your opinion on that. Thank you for your service. Yeah, we appreciate you. And um

>> the way we coach the military and we coach a lot of folks in the military over the last 30 years >> is um there are sometimes and when you

make a move for two years that you will buy a house, but most of the time you shouldn't. Most of the time you should rent. And here's the math and the reason. Most markets, most real estate

markets on average do not increase

enough during the 2-year period of time that you're there to uh to to be able to sell it and make

money. You will lose money on the transaction. And most real estate markets move slowly. Now, you're moving into a Wahoo, I assume.

>> Yep, that's correct. >> Yeah. And so, uh, you know, the Wahoo market has a lot of military saturation,

a ton of it. And so, there's always a

good amount of military type housing for

sale, which means it's harder to sell it when you get ready to move. Now, if you've got the money to play in a non

military neighborhood, so to speak, that maybe you could the thing if it goes up in value fast enough and you can sell it

quick enough, those are the two variables, you can make money, then it's okay to buy. But probably in a Wahoo, you're probably going to be better off renting. Uh the transpose that with we

were working doing some stuff with Seal Team and uh they're in San Diego market, right? San Diego real estate generally is going up very quickly and generally sells very quickly and it's not saturated with military and so that's a

market you could Virginia Beach is another one the market you can move into and out of and make money but if you're going to be stationed in the middle of a Kansas cornfield and it's all military around you because the only thing in the

entire area is military you're always going to have a bunch of military people that moved off and their houses are for sale or for rent and it it screws up the market and makes it hard to sell. And so you can end up with 273 days on the market, nine months to get out of the stupid thing, and you're gonna lose your butt. So I I think you're gonna when you

investigate a wahoo, you're going to figure out that you're going to lose money if you buy for two years.

>> I got it. And and also an an additional worry that we have is our next unit will almost guaranteed be Kodiak Alaska and my pay is going to drop pretty significantly off that Aahu pay. So with

the house not being paid off >> Yeah. >> which again we we calculated out. I don't think we'll be able to pay it off in time if it's a $800,000 house for example. >> Yep. >> Uh when we when we go to Kodiak we wouldn't be able to make that work. The pay would just be too >> Exactly. And again, Kodiak is going to be a lot of military in that market.

Right. >> Right. >> Real strong military consideration. And so, um, it's, um, yeah. So, thank you

for your service. And but what I'm going to be doing is piling up money. And when you are stationed in an area that makes that is a vibrant real estate market that is not saturated with military, you can make money. Then it's okay to buy.

Otherwise, I would rent and pile up money for when I retire and then I'm gonna from the military and then I'm going to go by when I hit my 20 year or whatever it is you decide to to walk on it. Again, thank you for your service.

[Music]

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Brittany is in Huntsville. Hi Britney, how are you? I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, my husband and I just started Financial Peace University and downloaded Every Dollar and we are struggling with whether or not we should do the snowball out of order. Um, so

right now other than mortgage, our only debts are about 22,000 on my vehicle

that I drive and about 31,000 on my student loans, which are broken up into seven different loan groups. So the loans would technically be the smaller debts that we should snowball first, but I am pregnant and due in 6 months. My current car won't safely fit two car seats for our toddler and new baby. So, like it I feel like I should focus on the car first and was just wondering what you all think on that.

>> So, you owe how much on the car? $32,000

and it won't hold car seats.

>> $22,000. It was a RAV.

>> Yeah. 22. The 31.

>> What's it What's it worth?

>> It's worth about 22 with tradein value.

Kelly Blue Book said we could get 24.

>> What's your What's your household income?

um about $150,000.

I'm currently a stay-at-home mom, so that's all my husbands.

>> Okay. And what does your husband drive?

>> He has a lease deal through his job.

He's an engineer for Toyota. So, he's >> What does he drive?

>> A Tundra truck. >> Okay. What year is your RAV 4?

2021 I think.

>> Okay. So, who told you that the RAV 4

cannot accommodate two car seats safely?

>> So, I guess I told me that because our

current car seat and our infant car seat for my toddler that we had, we just upgraded his. Neither of those will fit behind the driver's side without touching the seat. And they're supposed to be a 1 to two inch gap. Well, the manufacturer says that you can actually on the 2019 and later models, you can sit uh you can put three car seats in there. So, I'm not trying to counterpoint you, but you've created this narrative that's completely false.

>> Yeah. Anyway, yeah, I'm fine with selling the RAV. Why don't you just sell it and buy a $10,000 car?

>> Okay. >> That's a van. Buy a $10,000 minivan.

>> Okay. And that reduces your debt from 22

to 10.

>> Well, we So the the thing is is like we just started doing Ramsey Solutions financial planning. So we have

$10,000. Like we could buy $10,000.

>> Great. Go buy a $10,000 car and sell the rev. And you got rid of $22,000 worth of debt. Yay.

>> Okay. Okay. Perfect.

>> 10ou a $10,000 minivan though. Not a

$30,000. >> Yeah. That's what I thought we were leaning towards. >> No, no, no. The So, we were just looking

at it because we were trying to figure out We thought we were upside down on the car. Turns out we aren't, which is good. >> That's awesome. Yeah. Just get out of it. And then then you've all you got to do is fight through the student loans and you're driving a $10,000 car and you make 150 and you got a baby. This is awesome. Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. But just fight through the student loans then. And uh but but you always use these things as a reason to go backwards.

The reason we were all Ken and I were both dancing over here on the other side of the microphone is 90% of the time that somebody calls with your question Britney. They want to move up in car. >> That's what I thought. Exactly what I thought.

>> I just want a bigger vehicle. I I don't know. My >> I don't blame you. That little RAV is a tiny little It's a tiny little wishes it was a Jeep car.

Yeah.

it's Yeah. And I don't blame you. I mean, that's kind of weird. Thinking about babies in the back of it's weird in my mind. So, I don't mind. Yeah. But but move down in car and take your 10 grand and let's accelerate this whole process. Okay.

>> Okay. >> You get to get to accomplish both goals in a positive way.

>> Okay. >> That's what I would do. >> Yeah. Very cool.

>> And I'm glad you gave perspective because that's what I thought we were being set up for. >> I did too. I did too. Most people That's what most people do and we're we have to be careful about because everybody that calls us, not most people.

So, >> hey, listen. Full confession. My mom held me in her arms. That's how old I am.

>> I know. Yeah.

What is happening? >> But the RAV is a tiny little >> I get it. I get it. >> It's a tiny little >> I get it. I was wrong. >> It's a Jeep that needs you to add water to. I mean, it's too small. >> A Chia car. >> It's a Chia car.

>> I like that. I like that works. Grant is in Montana. Hey, Grant. What's up?

>> Hey, how are you?

>> Great man. How can we help? >> You're taking my call. >> Sure. Um, so I'm looking for some help or some guidance on uh whether the balance whether uh taking care of my father is a priority or building a life

uh with my girlfriend uh slash soon to be wife. Um I started my life over at

25. I got sober, built a career for myself and uh about two years ago I had

to move in with my father. Um he's

disabled, not able to take care of his

home and property. Um >> how old is he?

>> Uh 68. >> And what is the nature of his disability?

>> Uh he's confined to a wheelchair. Um he

has some some spine issues that >> How long has he been? >> Surgery helped?

>> Um about five years now.

>> And you've been with him for five years?

>> No, I've been with him for two years. Uh two years ago, the HOA sent him a letter. Um I had been mowing the lawn and taking the trash out and doing what

I could. Um but I lived about a half

hour away and so um we just made the

decision. >> So are you planning to live with him for the next 10 years?

>> Um that was my plan. Um kind I I was

single at the time that I made this decision and then >> Okay. Yeah. Girl came along.

>> So now you're not planning to live there for 10 years.

>> So we have to have a plan for dad and a plan for your life.

>> They don't have to. They don't have it doesn't have to be either or. It should be both. But the plan for dad might not be that you live there. It might be that we figure out some other way that he gets cared for.

>> Sure. So, what we've done is is in

preparation for that plan or um whatnot,

he spent a lot of his retirement. Um he

he retired pretty early. Uh he retired when I was about 15. I'm 34 now. Um so,

he spent a lot of his retirement. Sort of the big thing he has left is is the house. Um but we took the house and put it in a trust of which I'm the beneficiary now. um in preparation for you know him

being moved on to Medicaid at some point. >> You understand Medicaid is welfare?

>> Yes. >> And you understand that welfare nursing home is a different level of care?

>> Yes, I do. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we're not. >> So, you're planning to put him in a Medicaid nursing home so you can keep the house?

>> That was not my plan. Um that was what

he wanted to do in case he had to go on Medicaid because they have >> Yeah. like a fiveyear look back period.

>> They sure do. They sure do.

>> Yeah. >> And um the trust doesn't help at all.

They can undo the trust, but on the 5-year look back. So, it's got to be five years. Has it been five years?

>> Yeah. >> No, we just put the house into the trust last year. So, >> so you got four years that you're going to continue this. If you're going to continue this, probably not going to work. I think uh you're selling the house >> so that your dad can use his money to care for him so that you can and he gets

a he gets a sustainable situation. He can't live in this house without help and he doesn't have the money for the help and you're not the help anymore.

>> Well, that's that's where I I struggle.

I don't >> um >> I don't no dad no dad that is a good man

wants his kid to have no life >> when he's sitting on a house that the money from the house will take care of him. You're supposed to go on and have a life, young man.

And um you can take care of your dad.

You can set up a situation where your dad is cared for with the equity from this house moving into a onelevel house.

A situation where he's got care with the money that's the equity cuz he's blown his retirement. and then you go on and have a life in the process. These things are not in congruent.

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EJ's in Philadelphia. Hi EJ. How are you? >> I'm great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, um, my fiance and I are getting married in about a month and, um, we're

about to receive $20,000, um, as a gift, not for the wedding, but because we're getting married and we wanted to know >> Yeah. Yeah, it really is. Um, and we wanted to know what would be the best direction to or the best place for us to put that money. Um, so just for some context, uh, we just finished school,

um, her last December and me, uh, over this past summer, and we just started working full-time.

And, uh, the only debt that we have is,

um, $18,000 in student loan. Um, and so

we're trying to figure out if we should

um save that money and snowball our debt

or um or move into a better place or

whatever. And I I just wanted to know what you think would be a good uh

direction for us to go in with that money. >> Yeah. The problem with this is it's when

you get a gift like this in a situation like this, it's $20,000 and it feels emotionally like it's $200,000, >> right? >> I mean, it's just exciting and wonderful and what a wonderful generous gift. And

um and then if you want to do something that's nonsexy but smart with it, it's hard >> because it's emotional. And um so you

know the answer to what we would teach you at Ramsay to do with any money >> that you get it from any source is to

work the baby steps. Why? Because that's the shortest path to wealth and put you

in a position to do anything else you want to do, >> which is generosity, change your family tree, buy a house, all those kinds of

things. And so we're always going to do that. But with a gift like this, it's very hard because this has got such sizzle on it that it's different than

uh you know, Dave, I got $20,000 in a mutual fund. What do I do with it? That's different than I got a wedding gift and I'm newly married and newly graduated. It it just has that's got a lot of sizzle on it. You see what See what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, it it makes it very hard for you to do what I'm going to tell you to do, which is just pay off your student loan, man. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm thinking Yeah.

>> Yeah. It's hard to say. Yay. Yeah.

>> Yay. Let's use that money.

>> Yeah. That's a Yeah, I got it. I'm trying to I set you up, man. But I mean, I'm I'm I understand the feels on this.

So, uh, but yeah, cuz the faster you get

out of debt, the faster you have control of your most powerful wealth buildinging tool, which is not the 20,000, but is your income. >> Uh, yeah. Yeah. >> So, what is your what's your income going to be now, the two of you?

>> Um, so I work two jobs and I make around

90,000 a year and my fiance uh makes

around 55,000.

>> And those are your post-graduates jobs, right?

>> Uh, yeah. She's in her field that she studied. I um I went to school for ministry and I worked that part-time.

Okay. And I do um HVAC and plumbing full-time, which I did not go to school for. >> Yeah. That's but that's not unusual. Yeah. 80% of pastors are b by vocational in America today. So, >> Right. >> Um All right. So, the uh uh All right.

So, you got $140,000 household income.

>> Yes. >> And you're how old?

>> Uh I just turned 22.

>> Oh, see that's awesome, man. You're killing it. Yeah. >> And now you got no debt >> because of this wonderful gift. It's just it's just >> it's just emotionally hard to do that.

But it's the smart thing to do. It is what I would do >> and it's what I'm going to tell you to do. And if you were my son who was 22, I would tell you to do this and I'm going to tell you to do this cuz I love you.

But I'm also admitting simultaneously that it absolutely has no sizzle. And it's a sizzle gift with a wah wah wah

suggestion. Yeah, >> but but the faster you get out of debt, the faster you can build wealth, the faster you'll be able to have a nice family, the faster you'll be able to do all these things. And it just I'm going to get you there as fast as I can every time. And I'm a thousand% consistent on

this. Kenneth is in Georgia. Hi, Kenneth. How are you?

>> Hey, doing great. Thanks so much for having me today. >> Sure. What's up?

>> I just discovered the uh Ramsay plan this past summer and it's really click with me. I've been enjoying it so far.

We are on baby step two. But uh my wife and I are thinking about having a second child and I just wanted to make sure that financially this is something we can afford. It's not going to crush us.

I'm in a little bit more of a house than I really should be. Uh we're having a

mortgage payment of about $4,100 a month whereas we take home about $12,000. Uh I

do have a side gig that brings in about two to four extra thousand a month. So that does help a lot. But uh >> that makes that number work as long as you do that >> until your other income goes up. if you're going to keep the side gig cuz otherwise you can't afford the house. You're right. But that's not too bad.

>> Okay, good. >> Why Why would you not be able to afford a baby? I don't understand. >> Oh, we've just been having repair bill after repair bill with this house.

It needs a new roof. It's got foundation issues. We had to replace the entire HVAC. We've got to set up a new drainage unit.

And I don't know, maybe I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. Maybe this is an emotional thing, but I'm just worried. Can I afford this? Am I going to sink myself?

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, if you got to trade a money pit for a baby, I'd trade for the baby. Well, that's pretty easy to call.

>> Yeah, that's an easy decision. So, sell the money pit and go get you something else. If you think if you don't think the uh repairs are done, sometimes these things go in waves, though, right? I mean, maybe you just finished your last wave of repairs and you won't have any for a while.

>> That would be nice. Yeah. >> I don't know. If that's the case, it's emotional. >> Yeah. Uh if it's not if it's not you're observing a a logical pattern and you're

wise to con be concerned.

>> Okay. >> So you got to decide which one of those it is. Do you think it's over?

>> Uh I think that these are one-time repairs. I think that >> well each of the ones you named are but I mean is the is the pattern over or are we in a money pit?

>> That's what I'm I'm worried about. I'm patterns over.

>> It's about 25 years old and we've been in it for about a year.

>> So, uh, you've been through the other mechanicals, the water heater, the dishwashers, all that's new.

>> We have replaced the dishwasher. We've not replaced the water heater yet.

>> 25 year water heater is done, bud.

>> Yeah, it's going to need it real soon.

>> Yeah. So, you you got some things like that that are aging out that are what we call functional obsolescence in the real estate business. So, they're functionally obsolete.

>> And so, um, you know, that's the age of the house. And that doesn't mean it's a money pit. It just means it's an old house. >> And so, um, >> you know, one of our houses is 13 years old and I'm putting a roof on it this week. >> And I just put a heat and air system in it. So, it's same thing. I just both of them went at the same time. And so, um,

you know, that that's just it just kind of goes with the calendar is what I'm saying. And so if if you think you're facing that, then you may want to buy a newer property that's a little different and a little less expensive maybe. And that is your family plan planning.

>> Yeah, I I would have wanted to know is there an emotional attachment for you and the wife? Doesn't sound like you're too emotionally attached to it, but is she? But I I I agree. I would uh take my losses early. I talked to a great real estate pro uh and do some homework on

this house. What needs to be done is is what's done already enough to move the house. I mean, I think you need to know all the information that you're dealing with because you're clearly frustrated.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I just learned a new phrase. I got to figure out how to use it this week. >> Functional obsolescence. >> I got to tell you, that's impressive. I don't know that I could get it out. I got to practice that one in front of the mirror. It's the obsolescence. That's a tough word, but that's a new one for me.

I feel like if I drop that in the right room, >> comes out of my real estate training back in the day. Way back in the day.

Yeah. So, >> I thought you were going to say it comes out of somewhere else. I don't know where you were. >> It does that, too. But the the uh but the Yeah, the the >> functional obsolescence. Did I get that right? Yeah. >> All right. I think >> Well, I mean, you know, with vehicles, it's planned obsolescence, right?

>> See, now you're showing off.

>> You've heard that. No, I mean, the whole the whole auto industry plans for the car to deteriorate in a certain number of years. >> I feel smarter because I now know about functional obsolescence and planned obsolescence. Not a book that's coming to you anytime soon. But I do like that.

I know that. >> Not a title that would sell.

>> Yeah. Not a good idea.

>> We're gonna probably back right off of that on the Ramsay personality title list. >> It's not going to not going to make the cut. >> Yeah. But the deal is stuff wears out.

Hello. That's all That's all it means. It's not It's not a >> It's just a John Deloney word that means stuff wears out. That's all it is.

>> It's a good Scrabble word. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. If you could spell it.

>> I couldn't. >> I'd have to look it up. And I think that's illegal in Scrabble.

What do I know?

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Welcome back to the Ramsay show and the fair winds Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

He's also host of the Front Row Seat Show on Ramsey Network, which is exploding. If you've not watched this long form interview show, there's a little bit of everybody been on there already. Uh, you don't want to miss it.

Be sure and check it out. Benjamin is with us in Seattle. Hi, Benjamin. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, how we doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

love to hear it. Uh, I got a question about rolling over my current 401k

into a Roth IRA even though I'm still employed with the 401k.

>> Don't think you can do it.

>> Okay. >> You can roll it into a Roth 401k inside your company. Does your company have a Roth 401k option?

>> Yes, it does. >> Okay. You can move it there, but I don't think you can move a 401k while you're still employed.

Gotcha. >> Of any kind, traditional Roth, anything.

So, uh, how much is in it?

>> Not much. It's around 30 grand.

>> Okay. So, you're going to create about $7,000 in taxes. Okay.

>> Okay. >> When you do that, cuz it's all you're going to take a non- taxed item and make it taxable that year. Do you have an extra $7,000 laying around to pay the taxes?

>> Uh, the 401k is a Roth 401k.

>> Oh, I'm sorry.

Oh, you just wanted to roll it out to an individual from the Roth 401k. I thought

you were in a traditional 401k. I'm sorry.

>> Uh Roth 401k into a Roth IRA.

>> Gotcha. Okay. Can't do it while you still work there, I don't think.

>> Gotcha. >> Don't need to unless you get why you just got crummy options or what?

>> Yeah, crummy options. Um, it's a 2% match and so just not getting a lot

there. Uh, my Roth IRA has probably 40

grand in it. So, I was just thinking if I had more a bigger number in one account, more growth versus, you know, two accounts.

>> No, two account. If let's let's pretend that one that the current individual is

returning 10% and your company was returning 10%. It's the exact same thing as if you put them together and they return 10%.

>> A big a bigger number does not make you more money unless the percentage is different. The percent of return is different. You follow me?

>> I do. >> Okay. So, and besides that, I don't think you can move it until you leave the company anyway. So, I think you're there. And the 2% matches 100% on 2%.

That's pretty good. You got 2% before you got started. So, yeah, just be careful and pick out good options. Make sure you're fully funding the individual one. And um there we go. That's one of

those math things that um there's a

couple of those that float around in the culture, Ken, that are um interesting.

And I don't know.

Uh I don't know. I a lot of people think

that if I put all my accounts together in one big lump sum and I make the exact

same interest rate that I'm going to make more money. You'll make more actual dollars, but you don't make more than the total would have been anyway.

>> Correct? Because the sum hasn't changed.

It's just now consolidated versus >> the total principle that is earning has not changed. It's just in being in one pile being in six piles doesn't matter.

>> Right? Assuming the piles are paying exactly the same for purposes of this math brittle. >> Yeah. The other one is funny is uh I don't want to pay off my mortgage because I've already paid all the interest. >> Correct. >> And that's not true. You don't you don't you don't prepay interest at all on an amateurization mortgage. A standard mortgage is calculated like simple interest. And we can walk you through that for the fun of it. Okay. You take your annual percentage rate, say 6%.

divide it by 12, which would be your monthly percentage rate. So that would be a half a percent per month. And so you're paying a half a percent on that month's outstanding balance. When you look at your amateization schedule and you say, "What number of dollars of my monthly payment is going towards

interest this month?" You're going to find it to be, if you have a 6% mortgage, exactly half percent of whatever is outstanding right now. Tada.

And that's called a simple interest calculation. But the amateization schedule because it starts out with the largest possible balance. So more is going to interest on on the first payment than ever will again.

>> And every time you pay a payment, it the more goes to principal, less goes to interest. More goes to principal, less goes to interest. Every time you pay a payment and because you pay so much interest on the front end like that, it makes people think they're prepaying interest. And they're not. >> That's right. you're only paying exactly what you owe there. So there's no disadvantage at any time to pay off a mortgage. No disadvantage mathematically. You only paid what was appropriate. And so if you

prepay if you send them an extra $10,000, um it slides you forward in the amortization schedule. So figure out what your principal balance is. 290,000 a day. move over in the amortization schedule 280,000 and that's what your next payment will look like, not your next payment >> because now you have $10,000 less that that half a percent this month is being multiplied on 280 versus 290 in my example. Okay? And so um bunch of math

gibberish there, but all of that to say it's there's this interesting mythology that runs around then people make bad decisions on that. I guess the other one that uh that those don't aggravate me, just I'm a math nerd. But the one that aggravates me is where people just go ahead and transfer their house prior to

death.

I'm going to just deed this to my kid.

It's a $200,000 house and I'm just going to give it to him and I'm 60 years old and then I'm going to live in it. Well,

honey, there's just so much that you don't understand about what you just screwed up.

Number one, when you give someone an asset that's $200,000, you just inherit you just got gift tax. And when you get audited, they're going to tax you at 55% of that gift. O the gift tax is horrendous. So, you can't just decide, I'm just going to give somebody money there. You have to go through a few little tax moves in order to do that.

You can do it, but you have to file some forms and do on the unified estate tax credit. There's a way to do it, but you also just lost what's called stepped up basis on that. So, here let me help you with this. Mom and dad bought the house in 190 whatever, right? And so, they

have almost they paid almost nothing for it. And so, when you get the house as a

gift, your basis for calculating capital

gains is what their basis was, which is

nothing.

And so when you sell the house, you're going to pay capital gains on the entire amount because you geniuses deeded it to

you before they died. If instead you got

it upon death, you get what's called stepped up basis. And that means that

when you sell a house within 6 months of the death of the person that owned the house or a stock, either one, it's

presumed that you sold it for market value and your basis is market value.

zero taxes.

So capital gains tax on $200,000

is $30,000 bucks.

So a nice little $200,000 home, you just

made a $30,000 error. Try doing it on a million dollar house. Yeah, you just made a $150,000

error. Not to mention gift tax if you did it wrong. just because I'm just gonna do this to my kid because I think I don't want the government. And you just screwed up the whole stinking thing because you didn't know what you were doing and you didn't get some good advice.

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Everybody needs insurance, but it It can be hard trying to find the pro who isn't

just looking to make a buck. Agents who know their stuff, they're hard to find.

With a Ramsay trusted insurance pro, you'll never have to deal with sleazy business or slimy salespeople. A lot of sleazy, slimy stuff out there because we interview these guys, we vet them, we coach them to make sure they're market experts who have your best interest at heart. Go to ramseolutions.com/coage to find the type of insurance you're looking for. Connect with a Ramsey trusted agent or click the link in the show notes. Stephanie's in Orlando. Hi Stephanie. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Good. Um, well, I've I'm recently engaged and um I'm trying to figure out if I should buy a house before we get married or wait till after.

>> Absolutely not.

>> Please don't. >> I'm trying. I'm gonna beg you not to >> not to wait. >> No. No. Don't buy a house until you're married. >> Don't buy a house. No. Of course. I don't want to buy a house with him. So, I'm But he has some debt. So, I'm trying to figure out should I should we get married to help him pay the debt off and then we buy a house or >> or should I go ahead and buy the house on my own first?

>> No.

>> Do you think Dave's being clear enough?

Sometimes he's fuzzy. Okay. Let me let

me stop that, Stephanie. I'm sorry. That's not fair. I need to tell you why.

Okay, here's the thing. You're getting ready to join your lives.

The best way for you guys to become wealthy is for you to join your lives.

Combine everything, assets, liabilities, incomes, and we we together are aligned on our steps and what our future and and

and what the future looks like and the steps to get there. Okay? And when you do that, you it's a major plus for your

relationship because when you can agree on your spending, you're agreeing on your fears, your dreams, your life.

That money is not important, but where it goes speaks loudly who you are and

what you dream about.

And when the two of you combine and in

the old marriage vows it used to say richer for poor sickness and in health unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge

and it creates a unity in a a a joined

approach. What ends up happening, and we

see it in the actual factual data 10 years later after you're married, is you have what we end up calling in the financial world the marriage advantage to where a 35-year-old married couple has a net worth that is far beyond a

couple of single people that are 35.

>> Right? So even even if that means delaying some things.

>> No, it's it's just a m not delaying them much, but it just we're putting them in an order that might not be comfortable,

>> right? >> So, we're going to pay off the debt. We're going to build an emergency fund. Then we're going to get a big down payment and buy a nice home on a 15-year fix where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay. You're going to start putting 15% of your income away towards retirement after that, and you're going to become very, very wealthy in about a decade.

>> Yep. Exactly. because I'm I'm there now on my own, but seeing that, you know, my plan is to join as you know.

>> So, how much do you have in savings that's not retirement?

>> Um about 50,000 right now.

>> And how much debt does he have?

>> He has about 31,000.

>> Perfect. When you get back from the honeymoon, pay it off.

>> That's kind of what my thought was cuz I still want to save some more money for a down payment cuz even 50,000 >> is just okay. pay off the debt and then you've got a combined household income of what when you come back from the honeymoon. >> Um maybe around 90,000 95,000 maybe.

>> Good. And so you're what 25 26?

>> Oh, I am 37.

>> 37. Okay. All right. What do you do for a living? >> Um I'm a production planner. So in manufacturing. >> Mhm.

>> What's he do?

>> He's uh in shipping receiving for manufacturing as well. >> Okay. Cool. Cool. All right. Perfect.

So, you are a planner. That's why you're That's why you're lining up on all this immediately. Exactly. The way your mind works, all the numbers written down.

>> That's the way your mind works. And so, >> I've been listening to you guys for 5 years now. >> Okay. Well, you know, you know the baby steps then, and I'm just walking you through them as a combined couple.

We're going to take your 50, pay off his 30, that leaves 20. Now, we've got a $90,000 household income. The 20 is probably your emergency fund. So, we start from scratch real quick.

Build our build our down payment.

Meanwhile, or shortly after buying a home, one of the two, we start baby step 3B or four 15% of your income going into retirement. You've heard all this before, hadn't you? >> Oh, yeah. Plenty of times. >> Yeah. >> Actually, I didn't include my emergency fund in that. I have a three month.

>> Okay. Then you got a 20 head start, not a 50 head start towards your down payment. Good. >> Exactly. >> Okay. If your emergency fund is big enough for our emergency fund, that is.

>> Um, not yet. I don't think with what I think a new mortgage will be.

>> Okay. Well, then yeah, we we'll get there. But I mean that you see you you you know exactly what to do. It's just a matter of when, what, and why. But no, we don't try to uh don't don't look for a hack.

Just go straight through it.

>> Exactly. >> It's the fastest way. It's just It's just not popular. It's not It's not cool. Your friends are going to go, "What? Who gives a crap what you think?

You don't have any money and you don't and you're not living in my house." So, I mean what? You know, I don't you know,

these are not real friends. real friends go, "Yes, you're so smart. You're wise beyond your years. Go do the smart stuff." Yeah, that that's that's very cool. Congratulations. Hey, I'm going to send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover, the baby steps. You already know them, but I'm going to send it to you anyway as a as a wedding gift. Very cool. That's fun. Yeah, I like the uh I

like how wary she is, you know, not jumping in emotionally. Very solid. Uh and I'd love to know what she has in retirement. We didn't get to that, but I think that they're going to be in great shape. The other thing I would say, we didn't get to this, but for people that are listening, watching this, in a situation like this, and I'm sure she's done this, you want to make sure that this person is is on board with you

before you get married on the finances.

It's not something you want to come in, and in this case, I'm not saying this is happening here, but you want to be careful not to come in, we combine finances, I'm going to pay all this debt off, and they go, "Woohoo!" And then they go get more debt. super important that you got this stuff figured out pre-marriage. Amen.

Loretta's in Texas. Hi, Loretta. How are you? >> I'm just fine. How are you doing today?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, I am 64 years old and I'm

so ready to retire, but I'm just worried about my finances.

>> Okay. >> I have um 800 $8,000 in an emergency

fund. I have 12,000 in 401k.

I have 15,000 in savings. My home is

paid off. My vehicle is paid off. And I have no other debt.

>> Okay. And what will you live on if you retire?

>> Social Security. Well, I mean, I can't I can't just retire. I'm probably going to work the rest of my life. But the job that I have now, I am a um a truck

driver. I do super loads. And so, you know, it's physically demanding. It's a lot of work, but you know, at at some point, you know, I want to be home.

>> What do you make?

>> 110,000 a year. >> Okay. Why have you not saved any?

>> And well, I mean, I because I paid off

debt. >> Okay. So, your debt's gone now.

>> My debt is gone now. So >> So, how much longer do you want to work?

and pile up some cash. I mean, why don't you try living on nothing and let's put $100,000 away in the next two years. 50 a year. >> Oo, >> 50 a year. Well, you don't have any payments. >> You're on the road. >> Cuz I don't have I can actually put even, you know, probably put even more than that. >> Good >> because it's just me. Good.

>> So, you know, with everything >> Well, let's not retire on social insecurity.

>> Okay. So hang in there another couple of years and >> and how much how much could you put away out of 110 >> if you go if you go whole hog. You just go all in, girl.

>> 75. >> Okay, that's 150 in two years, right?

>> Yeah. >> All right. Now, that makes you 66 years old. And if you then will set your budget up with no debt to live on your

social security, if you invest that with a Smart Ver Pro and some good mutual funds, it will double every seven years.

So at 73, you'll have 300,000 if you don't touch it and live on the social security. Now you're building a nest egg.

>> Okay? >> And that's where I want you to go. This idea of 12,000 bucks and I'm ready to retire. Uh-uh.

Uh-uh. I I don't want I don't want to live on social security. It's not enough. I've been working too hard all these years. You have for sure, kiddo.

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Jake's in Minnesota. Hi Jake. How are you?

>> Hey there. Thanks for taking the call.

>> Sure. What's up?

I was just calling to ask um me and my wife are trying to figure out if we should work on paying down our current mortgage, which we secured at 2.75%

or if we should be working on saving up our uh savings to get into a bigger home

down the road. >> Pay off your mortgage

as fast as you can. >> Okay. Just >> as fast as you can. >> Go at it. >> Yeah. Just go at it. Now, I mean, you need to be working what we call the baby steps. Have you heard us talk about those?

>> Yep. I'm familiar.

>> Okay. The uh And so, are you out of debt

everything but the home?

>> That's right. >> And you have your emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses?

>> Yes. >> And you're putting 15% of your income into retirement plans.

>> That is something that we've backed down a little bit on recently. Um My wife and I, we don't have great matching from our employers. We've been working on getting that >> doesn't matter. You need to be putting 15% of your income away for retirement in good growth stock mutual funds.

That's going to build wealth for you.

And then beyond that, let's with we any

money we can find in the budget that we want to throw at the house, let's just start paying the house off systematically. And um and th those are

the things that the people that become millionaires the fastest do. They

steadily invest in their 401ks and they pay off their homes. Data after data after data. We've got 10,000 of them we interviewed. We know.

>> Okay. Yeah, we're I think we're um

pretty close to the point where we're almost ready to take the jump on the new home, which is what we've been trying to uh >> Well, then it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You're just going to sell this house and the equity is going to come out of it anyway.

>> Fair. I think we're just trying to make sure that if the right house comes along that we have enough liquid that we don't have to make a contingent offer. Would that ever make a difference? >> No, you have to make a contingent offer because you have to sell the house. You can't you can't take on two mortgages.

>> I think there might be a little room for us to own both for a few months, but yeah, correct. We have >> You don't want to turn yourself into a motivated seller.

>> Thing doesn't sell for 6 months and you're paying payments on it, >> you're going to give the stupid thing away. You don't want to do that.

>> No. >> Good point. We are uh >> calm down. Go take a cold shower. You're getting house fever.

>> Yeah. The uh >> you've been out looking at the weekends at the open houses, hadn't you? Yeah,

>> we've been we've been working on it. Um >> Yeah, you've been working on it. It's working on you, too, dude.

Yeah, >> we're expecting in March and we've just been kind of looking at our current home situation and trying to figure out how we can make that next step happen. But um >> yeah, it's okay to calm down and come go after the baby. I uh a as a husband and

grandpa, I won't recommend you uh plan a move during a pregnancy.

You're not going to be a popular dude.

10 years later, she'll still bring that up to you. that time that you moved me while I was nine months pregnant. Yeah.

She'll remember that for the rest of her life. She won't forget.

>> And I I gotta speak on behalf of all babies. They have no idea how big the house is. Uh a lot of this is just very

natural. >> You're a baby advocate. >> Yeah, I am. I am.

It's the first time I've taken that for babies. I'm here to speak of the people, you know, Dave. I really am. No, I I just hear this a lot from young couples.

And by the way, it's very normal and I'm not in any way judging it, but we start to think, well, this is what the nest should look like and this is what the nest should feel like. And in all reality can get you in real trouble. And the scenario that Dave gave you, we get that call a lot where people they thought it was going to work out and then life has got a different idea and then you're stuck as opposed to being patient here and the baby's going to be fine. You don't need the perfect nursery and all the things.

It just doesn't matter. You're gonna be so exhausted, you don't even want to think about all this. So, I think Dave's right.

>> Yeah. And definitely a contingency.

>> Absolutely. >> That that or sell the house and move into an apartment while you're looking so you don't have You ain't going to do that for sure. >> Two moves. That'll get you in real hot water. >> That's gross. Yeah, it could happen. But yeah. Yeah. No, because here's the thing, honestly. You start talking about 279 on one side of the fence like this is a bargain, right?

>> Okay. Like you got I got this cheap interest rate and dude after the 11th month and the house hasn't sold that cheap interest rate is going to look like it's 27%.

>> Not 2.7. And you're going to be going, "Oh god, I'm just This is killing me. We got to get this house moved." You're going to be calling the realtor every day. You're going to be dropping the price, dropping the price, dropping the price. Then somebody's going to come in and lowball you and you're going to take it. Do not get yourself in that position. And and so uh it's easy. do a

contingency deal or or don't do it. Um

and so like I had one guy he said, "Well, God told me to do it." I said, "No, he didn't." "Yeah, he did." "No, he didn't. I'm positive God didn't tell did not tell you to do that." He said, "How do you know?" Said, "Because the Bible says the blessings of the Lord have no sorrow added to them. And there's sorrow

added to your mess you created here." And then you're trying to blame it on God. And God's up there laughing going, "You're just one of my stupid children." You know, and he's got a bunch of stupid children because I've been one of them.

>> Me, too. But that's not fair, Dave. You used God's word to debate God's voice.

That's not fair. You were not playing fair.

>> That's such a pro move, by the way.

That's That's a good That's a flex.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Uh Allan's in Georgia. Hey, Allan. What's up?

>> Hey. How you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Uh yes, sir. So, I um I've inherited

some land uh from whenever my mom passed away >> and uh just kind of been sitting there not making any money and I think it's probably time to sell. Um >> how much what's it going to bring?

>> Uh conservative 350 to 500.

>> Wow.

Nice inheritance.

>> Very nice. >> 64 acres. >> Thanks, Mom. Wow.

>> Yeah. So, what are you what are you going to do with a 400 500 grand?

>> Well, I kind of wanted to get into uh real estate. Um I've been doing some research on like uh beach condos

um and kind of looking at the I think their return on investment is hovering from 8 to 10% and kind of wanted your

opinion on it or >> where where do you live in Georgia?

>> Uh uh Albany, but it's in Leburg. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay.

>> The land >> um well the reason I asked is resort

real estate, mountains, beaches,

uh lakes is the most volatile type of

real estate.

It's the first thing that goes up when times are good and the first thing that goes down when times are bad. And that includes the rental income on it.

So, if if you have a if you have some kind of a problem and the economy slows down, you're you're going to you're going to be the first one to take it on the chin. The value goes down and the rentals are hard to keep booked. So, I don't recommend resort real estate as an investment.

>> Okay? >> If you want to buy a toy >> for your family to go stay in at the beach, that's a different discussion.

You pay cash for toys, >> but that's not what you that's not what you said. So, instead I would buy a boring rental property that's steady >> and it's probably close to you

>> or two or three. Okay? >> If you I'd rather you buy two or three 200,000 $150,000 houses in your area there and they'll go up more steadily

than those beach condos will. They won't go up as much during good times, but they won't go down as much during bad times. and you create this tortoise versus the hair type of investment portfolio. >> I've got a question for you on this. 8%

was his goal. He stated it on the call.

Why wouldn't you say just put that in in

our our investment, our four our four buckets that we talk about? Why not invest it in the market? Why even take on the headache uh of real estate?

>> Well, 8% is his cash on cash.

>> Got it. >> That's how much he makes in his pocket, right? versus what he invested.

>> Okay, >> that doesn't count how much it goes up in value every year. >> Fair. >> And it doesn't count that he can also shelter a portion of it by doing depreciation. So those three numbers added together on an 8% are going to sound more like 17%.

>> Okay, got it. Great. >> And then it makes it worthwhile. I look for 8 to 10 on a residential if I'm buying it. Okay. >> On commercial, I look for 10 to 12 cash on cash, but I fully expect to return about 20 on a 12 including it's called an internal rate of return. Okay, >> which includes the increase in value and the write off of the depreciation schedule. >> All right.

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Our

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scripture of the day, James 4:3. When you ask, you do not receive because you ask with wrong motives that you may spend what you get on pleasures.

Our friend Art Laugher said, "It's not true that Congress spends money like a drunken sailor. Drunken sailors spend their own money. Congress spends ours.

>> Fact. >> Fact. Art. You can tell Art used to hang out with Ronald Reagan a lot. That's a great line right there. That's fabulous.

All right. Here we go with Gerald. Uh Gerard in Texas. Hey, Gerard. How are you? >> I'm better than I deserve. Dave, how are you all? >> The same, sir. How can we help?

>> So, uh, my wife and I are on baby step two. We should be done with about 40,000

worth of debt by the end of the year and we're going to be moving on to four, five, and six. I already kind of have plans for retirement and early payoff of the house, but I'm confused a little bit on the college savings side of things.

>> Cool. How old are your babies?

>> Uh, four and seven.

>> Awesomeness. Okay. What are you confused about? So, I I looked at the Dave Ramsey calculator on uh how to save for college

and and what we would be putting aside just based on what we think living expenses are and tuition will be. Um that number seemed high around like 1,100 bucks a month or something like that. Um I didn't know if that was normal to set that much aside in a 529 or a happy medium.

>> I would not do that. >> Okay. >> Okay. What what would y'all recommend as far as how to how to tackle the tuition versus living costs?

>> Yeah, I honestly I I need to go look at that calculator. It sounds like um um so

tuition has averaged 7 to 8% per year

inflation rate.

>> Okay, >> for the last 40 years or so. Um and so it's you know regular inflation is 2 to 4%. Uh average. I mean one year Biden we

had 9.7 but I mean the normal inflation rate is two 2 to7 or two two to four and

then with this so that's what it's going up so you got a you know University of Texas is probably 14,000 right now in

state tuition and so if you wanted to say okay four years of that is um 60,000 bucks right

>> correct >> okay and then add 8% a year for a decade

and that's that's where that that's going to be your tuition cost, right? Um and and so that that's what you would do. And then yeah, we use a 529 because

if you put in, you know, u couple grand or something a year, not a month, but a year, um you're

going to have about 90 or you probably have aboutund 40,000 bucks in there, something like that if you started with the babies. And so you'll have somewhere around 150,000 in there. And a lot of that is growth.

And if it's in a 529 in a mutual fund,

mutual fund in a 529, it's going to grow tax-free for tuition. And so if you have

$100,000 worth of growth, see if you put Okay, let's say you put in $2,000 a year for 10 years, that's 20,000 bucks you put in. >> If there's 120 in there, there's a hundred in growth. You got me?

No t no taxes on that hundred is important >> because that's a $20,000 tax bill, $30,000 tax bill that you're avoiding by

putting it the mutual fund in a 529 for purposes of the kid. And >> that makes sense. >> Yeah. So yeah, I mean couple grand a year is going to take you a long long way towards doing this. And the other thing that we would not have said 10

years ago that we will say today is I think higher education is going to look dramatically different 15 years from now. Wouldn't you Ken? >> I've been pretty bold on that and I I believe you're going to see a decentralization uh you're going to see specialties like obviously medicine law uh look very

similar to how we see them today. But as far as the traditional four years and you got to take a bunch of undergrad stuff and you got the prerequisites before you get to the major, I think that's going to splinter. I think the onset of AI, I think that we are actually at a I think a fever pitch on

what the American people are willing to put up with and I I think when you see >> on the ripoff of >> meaning willing to pay for it, I give you real numbers so you know where I'm coming from. Gerard >> Gallup came out with information this year in a poll. 46% of American parents said they would prefer that their kids go into trades and not into college. Uh

our good friend Mike Row, he's the I call him the Oprah Winfrey of the trades. He's been banging this drum for a long time.

>> You only take that as an insult. Uh but I I do think Dave's right. I don't think you're going to see the exorbitant cost.

I don't think now you got to plan for it, but I don't think you're going to see that. I think we've kind of jumped the shark. >> Well, the student the student loan debacle has um >> Yeah, it's >> has highlighted that uh some of the higher ed stuff is out of control.

>> Yeah. >> And so um I >> I do know that people are going to be more cognizant of what they pay and what they get for what they pay.

>> That's right. >> For sure. And uh so I and I think that's going to create a downward pressure on that inflation number that I gave you of 7 to 8%. So I don't think we're going to they're going to maintain that.

You're going to see Dave P little quick prediction. I think I've been studying this. I think you're going to see private sector competition for traditional education. I think people are going to come along and go, "Wait a second.

We can provide training for what corporate America really wants uh for a whole lot less money and make a ton of money doing it." And you're going to see these outsized tuitions go away because they can't compete with the private sector. Google's doing their own training program, six-month program.

Watch for that. I think that's going to happen. >> All of that to say that if you have put a couple grand a year for a four-year-old and a six-year-old, >> you're going to have a 100,000 plus in there when you get there >> each. And that's going to give you a

real head start into whatever you want to do, >> whether it's a trade, a certification program, or an actual four-year degree.

Um, and um, which I'm not, we're not against four-year degrees. We're just against getting a degree in for four years in left-handed puppetry and from a school where you pay 150,000 bucks a year to go um, so they can brainwash your child into being a communist. And so that that I'm against that. I think that's a problem. And so, um, and as a

parent I or a grandparent, I'm not writing that freaking check anymore and I'm not by myself. So, that that's what we're seeing. So, I think you're to you know, you're doing your individual planning, but you're doing it in context of what is happening culturally right now on this subject. That's why we wanted to comment on it. >> Yeah. >> So, it's it's very good. And Ken, I think it's worth, you know, highlighting a couple things here while we're at it.

you've been working with self-improvement in the self-improvement space and the new show Front Row Seat is helping people learn leadership skills and you know highlighting stories of great men and great women and what they did to get there and you know what we discover every time we do that. If you read biographies of great pe people who are successful in

any function, whether business, ministry, sports, whatever, you you find

um that that they were the secret sauce,

not where they went to school. It's exactly right. >> And uh so the number of times that people become successful due to the particular school that they went to is precisely zero.

And yet we go, well, if he went to Harvard, bull crap. Nobody cares out here is the

problem. It's all theory. There's no

data to back it up. 78% of the Fortune

500 companies are have a CEO that went to a state school. >> Y and >> that's eight out of 10. Shut up.

>> Had a 2.5. >> They didn't go to Wharton. They didn't go to Princeton. They didn't go to,

>> you know, mucky muck school. They went to a state freaking school. Penn State, Michigan State. That's right. University of Tennessee. That's where they went to school. They didn't go to Vanderbilt.

They didn't The 78% of the CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies, >> not straight. >> There's data for you. Okay. So, where you go to school doesn't matter.

It's a big deal. >> It's right. And it costs out the butt.

>> Yeah. And we're beginning to see the American people, and this isn't just parents anymore. The young people are going, they're reading the stories. They're paying attention. Their older brothers and sisters, they're going, there's not a value exchange here.

>> No, I can't spend $250,000 to become a social worker for the state of Tennessee with a master's degree and make $38,000 a year. That's dumb butt.

>> That's right. The ROI is not there anymore. >> Just doesn't work. So, you guys got to think about stuff like that. And Gerard, you're very wise to stay on top of the whole idea and be watching and monitoring all this as you go. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat. Heat.

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## 47. Don’t Let a Lack of Boundaries Turn Into a Money Crisis | March 17, 2026


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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal [music] is broken. Common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, [music] number one best-selling author, host of Front Row Seat, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality [music] is my co-host. The phone number here is free and some say the advice is worth what you pay for it.

The number is triple eight, eight two five, five two two five. Aaron is with

us in San Francisco. Hi Aaron, how are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you guys? Thank you. >> good. How can we help?

So, I just kind of want to know what to do in my situation and if I'm just being a brat. Um, so my boyfriend and I, we moved in

together into his house. His house is fully paid off, um, but it's managed in a trust by his mom.

I have my own house as well that I got a mortgage on before we met and I pay $3,000 a month. We want to move into my

home and rent out his home, but his mother is stopping us from doing that and, um, she's not going to allow us to fix up his home or anything to get it rental ready. I just I just feel bad because now I'm

paying a mortgage on a home and it's just sitting empty.

I'm not really sure what to do.

Mhm.

Well, so it's not really his house.

No. It's really It's really owned by It's owned by a trust. His mother is the trustee.

Yes. >> Yeah. Um, if she ever sold it, he would always get the proceeds. I think it's written in that way. >> Yeah. Um, from the sale, but

I just I just feel stuck. No, I don't I don't think you're stuck. I think he's stuck. Um how old is he?

He's 39. Mhm.

Well, Um at some point you have to become a man, my son, and decide if your mommy's going to tell you what to do.

Yeah. Yeah.

And you're married >> [laughter] >> you're shacking up with a mommy's boy.

Um Definitely.

>> Yeah. Yeah. She wants us to live in the home for sure. >> what she wants. He's 30 freaking 9 years old. She don't get a vote. So, you know,

I mean, jeez, this is like underdeveloped psychology.

Yes. >> Yeah. And I mean, So, number one, I would not recommend that he completely trash everything over a girl that he's not married to.

You. Fair enough. And so, but if he were married to you and the two of you are trying to set up a life and your and mother is this controlling, I would just wash my hands of that house and say, "Mom, good luck with that house.

Hope it works out for you.

You no longer have a vote and we're not going to live there." Okay. And so, it would be better for us to move into my home, right? And not have it sit empty. >> better for you to do that if you were married.

Yeah. >> But if you're not married, then he's taking a big risk.

Yeah. >> Cuz now he's living in his girlfriend Now he has a roommate that's his girlfriend and she owns the house. He went from one lady owning a house to another lady owning a house.

This guy's yet to get He's still homeless.

Yeah.

No, definitely. You're not wrong there, sir. Yeah. >> At all. Yeah, it's just it's a it's a bad it's a bad thing for for all of y'all. I'm sorry. It's And controlling people just piss you off. I mean, they just do. And she's obviously got issues, right?

Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's the reason why I don't want to get married though because until they can resolve whatever it is between them, I don't want to cross that finish >> not marriage material and decide until he decides his mom doesn't get a vote anymore.

I would tell my daughter not to marry him until he grows a backbone.

Cuz his mom tells him what to do. He's 30 freaking 9 years old. What's the penalty that she's holding over his head? That she's going to take him off the trust, getting the house if he moves out? What power does she really leveraging here?

If I understand all the details correctly, there's a few other rentals in the trust and he receives income from

those rentals. We both don't have any consumer debt. You know, we follow all your steps and we try to do our best to live a debt-free life.

Um but he does receive income from those

rentals and um his current job So that

she doesn't have a choice in that. The trustee has to execute the terms of the trust and the terms of the trust are the rental income has to be turned over to him. She can't take that away from him.

And that's what I'm getting at. Uh for you all in your relationship, what he is really facing is her disapproval. She's not threatening him with anything else and Dave just took the teeth out of the the any kind of property threat. That's what I'm getting at. What is he so afraid of? And what he's afraid of is is upsetting mama, which is back to the core issue for your relationship and everything else, but he can leave anytime he wants to leave.

He's just afraid to to piss mom off.

That's what's going on. So that's the bigger relationship issue.

Okay. Yeah, and and and honestly

there's four things that you have to be in agreement on and one of them is how we deal with extended family before you're married. And we're not in agreement about that cuz this has got issues. So yeah, I'd suggest you guys sit down and see a therapist and I guess he can move in with you in your house if you want, but he's really still not dealt with his core issue.

Um and so which is he needs to be an independent human being man-child

and actually do do stuff like man stuff

instead of just, you know, going from mommy to girlfriend.

And >> [clears throat] >> scary stuff. So, uh yeah. Has he ever been married before? Yeah, she's gone.

Oh, she's gone. >> Yeah. Never mind. >> Yeah. So, I don't I didn't see the body.

I'm I'm guessing there's a pattern. I'm also guessing mom doesn't like girlfriend. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Stewart's in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi Stewart, what's up?

Hey Dave, thank you for taking my call.

Um so, I'll try to be brief.

My father had a heart attack in 2024 and he started taking his estate a little more seriously and how he would hand it down to my sister and I. And he was advised by a friend of his who is a lawyer for a very prominent American family, but is retired.

Not an estate lawyer.

That he does not need a trust. Probably doesn't. What's his net worth?

I would guess it's somewhere around 1.2 to 1.5 million. He owns the business. He owns all the equipment in there, the building. About a half a million dollars. >> for tax purposes, he does not need a trust.

Unless he's trying to control something from the death bed or from the grave, the trust will help him do that. But um he probably doesn't need a trust. It's probably accurate advice.

Well, one one kind of screwball in this whole thing, curveball, is that we have a special needs brother, my sister and I, and he's been taken care of by the state basically since he was about 10.

And we were hoping to avoid probate in any way possible. We just have a transfer on death benefit at the current situation.

Well, probate's not evil. If you've got a good [clears throat] will, you walk right through it and you're What he does need is in his will, he needs to form a

special needs trust upon his death and the death of your mother to take care of your brother.

A special needs trust is funded at death and then you name a trustee, maybe you or your brother, to manage that loot lump of assets and the income created by that lump of assets takes care of the special needs person.

But that could be That can be formed at death. That's It's not rocket surgery. You A lot of people do it.

And so So would Just sit down with a good estate planning attorney and work on a special needs trust to be part of your dad's estate plan, but he does not need a trust today and there's no big thing on avoiding probate in Arkansas.

Arkansas's not got a huge probate tax.

It's not a big deal.

>> [music]

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>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And Oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them and they don't know what to do next. Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. These are the two options. And >> take care of your dadgum family, man.

Term life insurance can replace income, help dads cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or

call 800-356-4282.

>> [music] >> Have you ever wanted to see the person who's calling in to ask a question or be in the room when we answer it? Well, now's your chance. The Ramsey Show is going back on tour. [music] Experience live Q&A, raw confessions,

crowd debates, and local debt-free screams. The gang is going to be doing it live tapings of this show in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim in April.

There's only around 300 seats a night.

Better grab your tickets while you can at ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes.

Scarlet is in Boston. Hey Scarlet, what's up?

Hi. To get straight to my point, my parents through a series of recent unfortunate events have disclosed some financial mishaps that have occurred in their life and it basically means that they have no retirement or savings plan beyond the immediate future. My husband and I are Baby Steps Millionaires and I wonder what my obligation is if and when it comes time for them to be taken care of.

How old are they? >> When it comes, they're in their 60s, early 60s. Are they still working?

My dad is. My mom is on disability.

She's unable to work. Mhm. Okay.

And what were the mishaps? What did How did they lose all their money?

My dad had a financial um blow-up

post-2008.

His company was bought by a overseas company and basically stripped. The result being he was sued by many, many people. Eventually filed bankruptcy.

He's now out of that um and has worked just a JOB since, but

it's never been to that level of success he had when he owned his own business.

Mhm. [snorts] How long ago was the Oh, 2008 was the blow-up, right?

Yep. Mhm. Okay.

What does he make?

Six figures. I don't know too much about

his salary cuz a lot of it >> they But they've saved nothing since 2008.

Correct. Um there have been some medical bills. My mom had a stroke and was out

of >> have they don't have a health insurance?

They did. Um the health insurance covered There was a a delay, so they had to front some money and then the insurance company kicked her off the disability um when she was approved initially for it, which is how I came by their financials. I helped them file an appeal and then we went to court to try and with with the insurance company you don't really win, but uh there was a small settlement and that settlement has been spent. Um So, that's how I know through that process with my dad what their financial situation has become.

But the bottom line was after 2008 their heart was broken and they've never been really diligent about saving.

I think they also kept up a lifestyle that Yeah. was >> Yeah. that they couldn't sustain. That's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, okay.

Yes. So, yeah. They're going to have to stop that, aren't they?

I don't think they have any intentions of doing that. No. >> No. Well, it's um So, uh I don't give a drunk a drink. I'm not going to enable them. And you know you have no moral obligation to take care of anyone. There's no moral obligation.

Uh that's not your husband or your children, minor children.

Uh grown children, you don't have a moral obligation, either.

So, um there but the But you have a want

to. I'd like to help my parents, which just makes you means you have a heart and so forth. But I'm also have this paradox of while I want to help them, they've not done a good job themselves with even even uh notwithstanding the couple things they've run into.

They're just not very diligent about handling their money, and so they're broke. Well, hello.

And so it makes it it makes it taste bad to want to give to have to give them money or to feel like I need to support them. So, um What What I might do is I mean, depends on how frank and how much you want to get up in the up in their face on it.

If I end up having to put money into or or needing to put money in so that you have food, it's going to involve us selling everything you own, and you will be on a budget that I create, and you won't like it.

So, I don't want you to think you're going to be main that you're going to maintain this current set of habits with my money later.

In other words. Now, I don't know how how blunt you want to get, but the closer you come to delivering some kind of a message like that then sets them up to gives them maybe a reason, and I'll coach you guys on how to start saving because you still got some earning years left and some potential left and you can roll up your sleeves and you guys can build a nest egg or there's no reason for you to retire and eat dog food.

But if I'm in charge, we're selling everything and you're in a one-bedroom apartment and I will buy the groceries and pay the rent and you will not like your life.

Uh you will be able to exist and you won't be homeless, but I am not going to send you on Caribbean cruises.

And you got the ability to do that for yourself if you guys are roll up your sleeves now and I can coach you on how to do that. Now I don't again, I don't know how much how far down in this you want to get. It sounds like this stuff has been kind of dribbling out to you.

You've not been involved, you've not been involved and then finally on this one insurance thing you got a little more involved. And I don't think they're asking your help or advice right now.

You just see it's coming, is that right?

Correct. Yeah, I think this is great advice and I I think Dave gave you the financial advice and and I would just add to what he said, you need to create some emotional boundaries. Uh to where you

are prepared for their reaction if this

situation plays out as you fear it might. So that you've already made these decisions like Dave just laid out. But you've now are emotionally, mentally ready for any pushback and there's no guilt that comes in cuz that will be the hardest part of this is to actually execute on what Dave said because there's a powerful pull with the parents, you know? Your generation and all that junk. >> Your generation we call them sandwich generation because there's a pull from entitled parents and there's a pull from entitled grown children.

And and what the the trick the the the way to undo that sandwich is just remove the word entitled.

And it changes everything. You're not entitled to spit.

Neither one neither of you. Grown kids, you're not entitled to spit. Well, my children want to go I don't care. Get your job. Here's an idea.

You know, go to work. And mom and dad, you know, you you've had all you went through this horrible thing with the business. Some of that was your making, some of it wasn't. You went through this horrible thing with the insurance and you didn't take care of that properly. Let me tell you the number of times I front for an insurance company, zero.

And then hope I recoup out of them.

No, I'm going to turn everybody loose on everybody and I'm going to stand back and watch them all fight. Let the insurance company and the provider fight. You guys figure it out and then I'll clean up what's left. But I'm not writing a check and then somebody's got to come in borrow money and then I try to recoup out of the insurance company, not a chance.

Instead, I'm going at their throat right now. And that's that's being proactive rather than just kind of gliding along and there's a lot of gliding along in this. So, I it's a very hard thing to decide. Now, you also can decide you've got enough money, you don't want to deal with it and I'm just going to write whatever check I need to write and then just take care of them and I'm just not going to worry about it.

And if that's the case, you probably wouldn't have made this phone call. Yeah. So, um you would just done it and I'm just going to be an enabler and I'm comfortable with that and that's what I want to do. Mom and Dad took care of me, I'm going to take care of them and it's no big deal.

But when you call up and ask, that means that you don't want to do it.

That's what it means. So, uh how much how much preemptive strike do you want to get involved in is the next decision you got to make. How much preemptive conversations? Dave, I was going to ask you kind of a follow-up. What are What are your thoughts? Cuz I think there's probably several hundred thousand people that could be listening right now that are in these shoes and they feel a sense of uh burden to take care of their their parents. And when you say there's no moral obligation, I agree with you.

But what advice would you give to them to get over that emotional hump, that sense of guilt or shame that they ought to take care of them if they don't, they're bad kids. What would you tell them? >> Yeah. Well, I think you just need to decide, you know, whether it's your responsibility or not. >> Mhm. There should if if it is not your responsibility, then there shouldn't be shame or guilt.

The only reason you have shame or guilt is if you feel like it's your responsibility and you didn't do it.

That's the only reason it would be there. And so, like um

you know, if my buddy calls me up and says I I I need some money, I have zero shame or guilt about either giving it to him or not giving it to him. >> Right. Cuz I don't feel an obligation. I don't feel like I have to do it. And honor your parents in the Bible does not mean honoring misbehavior. If mama's doing cocaine, you're not honoring her by giving her $10,000.

That's not honoring your parents.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Frank is in Toronto. Hey, Frank, how are you?

Not bad, Dave. I finally got to free to talk to you. Well, we're glad you did.

How can we help, sir?

It's an honor for you to be there, you and all the personalities.

Um, I was just wondering, I'm looking for for future planning purposes here

of what is once I get to baby step four, which I believe is saving 15%

towards retirement, that I could have to maybe have to go a little more gung ho than that because

I'm 54 and don't have anything saved for retirement.

I'll have $215,000 worth of um, retirement investment room

when I get to that stage.

Um, I'll be debt-free in 8 months. Good.

I've actually set the date for November the 6th. Mhm.

And then I'll have my emergency fund of $10,000 saved. I have $3,000 and I just

did a budget. I got $3,000 each month

and and room. >> What's your household income?

Uh right now it's just me. I'm the household.

$5,600 net per month. Okay.

All right. So, if you save 15% of your gross annually into good growth stock mutual funds inside of your retirement plan. Now, you're in Canada, so it's a little different, but still, you can do all of that. Yeah. Um and you do that for 10 or 12 years. You're 55 at the point that you start, and you do it to 65, 67, you're going to be a millionaire. You're going to be fine.

Wow.

And no, you don't have to No, you don't have to do it out of order. You do need to get your house paid off during that time as well.

I I don't have a house. That's That's the other thing, too. Okay. And you start talking about how we're going to do that and what we can get paid for.

Because when you go into retirement, your most expensive line item in your budget is always housing.

Yes. And if you don't have debt on your house, obviously, it does It's no longer the most expensive line item in your budget. So, you've got a lot of room then. But, you're going to be fine if you just continue to follow through, and it sounds like you got it really dialed in. So, congratulations. Keep it up. If you need more help, call us anytime, brother. Nick is in Madison, Wisconsin.

Hey, Nick, what's up?

Yeah, hey Dave. Um just calling and hoping you can hear me well enough. I'm in a rural area right now.

Um Okay. >> I got a couple of questions I've got a couple of questions here on I'm sitting Well, first off, I'm only 27 years old. I got a 123,000 in debt here.

Uh 81 is about the house, 81,000.

Uh 28,000 is my car. Mhm. And then personal loans are around 6,000.

Uh medical bills are sitting around 8,000.

My main question today is uh

I always hear you say sell your car if

you cuz the car is worth about 12 grand today. Who said?

I looked at Kelley Blue Book, and then I also looked at the dealership a couple of different dealerships. >> On private sale or trade-in?

That sounds like a trade-in, though.

That would be That would be just a just a sale cuz I'm trying to get out of this loan and not get a new one.

Mhm.

Okay. So, if my math is correct, well, I think we're sitting at like 17,000 underwater right now. Um So, you owe $32,000 on this thing? $34,000 on this thing? Yeah.

Yep, cuz we originally we were >> in negative Did you roll negative equity from another car into this deal?

I did, yep. >> Yeah, and that's how you got there. Okay. And what's your household income?

So, I I we do 70,000 uh before the taxes, and then taxes come out, we get about 56, 57. Mhm. Okay.

All right. Well, I mean, you're stuck in that car. They're selling it is of no benefit because it it's not worth anything compared to what it's owed.

So, Okay. you know, it's not much help, but what what that does mean sadly is is that you're going to work six extra jobs.

And you're going to sell everything else in sight.

Everything's on Put the cat on Craigslist and the dog on eBay.

I mean, we're going crazy here.

And beans and beans and rice, man. No no life.

You've got to lean into this and start throwing grenades at it harsh, like your life depends on it. It's not You can't wander out of this mess. You're going to be extremely intense.

Okay.

So, the the monthly payment right now is 647. Yeah. And I I have done the past

few payments doing 1,100.

Um That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about coming up with 34,000 dollars.

Extra. Okay. So, you need to be making like an extra $2,000 a month and squeezing every dime out of your existing budget, too.

So, you are You're married, I take it.

Yeah, I am. Yeah, everybody in the house is working. The children are going to the salt mines. Everybody's working.

We're all making more money. We're all going to throw it at this mess, cuz this is not going to go away with you know, just sitting down and tightening up the only budgets you have right now.

It cuz you've tried that is and you know, and an extra payment is not getting you out any time in this century.

Cuz you probably also have a high interest rate on this thing, don't you?

Yeah, it's it's about 10 10% right now.

>> So, you got screwed coming and going.

Yeah. You don't need to be on a car lot for a while, do you?

What a mess.

Yeah, I I I you know, if I'm in this situation and I have any cash, I'm I'm going to go ahead and move this thing, and I'm going to drive a clunker because of the >> can get the cash. If you can get the cash. But at but at 17,000 upside down, if that number is accurate, and the thing is worth 12, what are you going to replace it with? A five? You only got a $7,000 move. Yeah, yeah. Here. So, you

know, getting rid of the getting rid of that thing, and getting rid of the debt on it, and getting rid of these other debts so that you can attack it with a vengeance is absolutely necessary here.

>> Yeah. So, any money you can scrape together that's not in a retirement, anything you can sell that's not in retirement, and any extra work you guys can do, and I'm talking about work that makes money, not just out there moving around. I'm talking about Uber. I'm talking about really making some money.

And I want you working weekends, nights, overtime. I want your wife doing the same. Y'all got a mess.

And you're going to stay in the mess unless you throw some money at it.

And so, that's what it's going to take. It's going to take this crazy intensity, and then you can move the needle.

Isabella is in New York City. Hi, Isabella. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I need your opinion here cuz I need you to act as a tiebreaker, but I just got a new job with a higher salary and my parents are really pushing me to buy an apartment in New York City.

Obviously, New York City, it's one of the most renter-heavy cities in the country. I really never thought of buying or considered it, but my parents are not letting it go. Um I'm happy renting where I am. >> Why Why do your parents have a vote?

>> [laughter] >> Cuz they're my parents. That doesn't give them a vote. You're supposed to be like a grown woman and stuff.

Um I do take a lot of like what they say into account.

>> nice. That's sweet, but they don't really get a vote.

Um I do see I do see where they're coming from. I think for me it's a lot of knowledge.

>> I'm 24. What do you make? What's the new salary? Uh 95,000. >> Well, what's the cost of the apartment?

Um with 95,000, I could reasonably look at anything between 300 to 400,000 in

the city. That's not in the city.

That's in an outlying borough somewhere.

Um if it's in a co-op, I would have to it would be within that budget, but there would be co-op fees on top of it.

>> In Manhattan?

Correct.

Are you talking what, 400 square feet or something? Um my my own apartment right now that I'm renting is pretty tiny, so I see where they're coming from that I could upgrade while owning at the same time, but I don't know.

I'm not sure you can. That number doesn't sound right to me, but um okay, I'm not a I'm not a Manhattan expert, but uh all right. Uh I mean, you might be out in the Bronx or Queens or something and do that, but I'm not thinking you're going to be on the island doing that.

Uh so, here's the thing. You're 24 years old, you make $95,000 a year, and you don't really want to buy right now.

Is what you told me. That's kind of what you said. I For me it's just I don't see I I don't

see how I can buy. Like I'm trying >> not sure how either. I I I don't think you buy right now. >> I agree. I'm okay with you waiting.

Someday you want to buy.

And maybe you're still in New York City.

Maybe you're still in Manhattan. >> [music] >> But home ownership when you don't want to is a bad idea. Home ownership when you can't afford it is a really bad idea. All home ownership is not good.

Only when it's done properly is it a blessing.

>> [music]

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>> Colton is in Atlanta. Hi, Colton. How are you?

Doing good. Hey, I got a quick question for y'all. Um I have a small business and I'm wondering how I should do profit sharing with my two team members.

Okay. That's a great question.

And I I think it's really important that you start thinking about that at your size we did then when we were that size. Now there's a thousand of us and we have 14 core values. One of our core values on the wall is share the profits.

So uh we share with everybody in the building in one way or another all kinds of different ways. Now it's somewhat complicated cuz there's so much. Um

the first thing uh I learned the hard

way that I will teach you is to uh make sure that the two team members know that this is Colton's money

and I am sharing it.

That's different than corporate profit sharing is part of my comp plan that I'm entitled to.

This is you out of the goodness of your heart setting up a culture inside my little company here that I believe in sharing with the team

and I am doing that voluntarily.

You see the difference in the spirit?

Mm, yeah. It's like like when you're in the kindergarten sharing.

You know what I'm saying? This is not like profit sharing is part of my comp plan and they didn't pay it and so I'm pissed. No, you don't get that option. You're not entitled. This is me being kind

and you smiling when I'm kind.

That's how this works.

Okay? >> So I've probably been doing it wrong. >> Yeah, that that me I did. I screwed it up when I was your size and I had to go back and reset. The second thing I do, and we still do this to this day, is we pay out profit sharing here once a month and our CFO gets on the stage and says,

"Hey, profits were up over last month,

down over this month last year.

We had a good month. Here's a couple of bright spots in the company without going into details and numbers.

Here's how many people are involved in the profit sharing plan this month.

And so your profit sharing check's going to be a little better than last month and um not as good as 2 months ago and here's why." And then we close that talk out with here's where profits come from and everyone in the whole room, all 1,000 people say, "Profits happen when revenues go up." Everybody says, "Up." And when expenses go "down." So your job is to make revenues go up and expenses go down and then you get more profit sharing cuz I'll have more to share with you. And we say that like

like we're in kindergarten or something every Wednesday or or every Monday morning though we do the once a month when we're doing profit sharing announcement. So cuz we want everybody to remember this is not the Santa Claus is not delivering a bag of money.

This happened because we all worked together to keep expenses down and revenues up. And you have to reset that in people's minds over and over and over

again because people forget and they're like, "Oh well, the company didn't give me any money." No, that's not how this works, honey. You're self-employed like the rest of us. We as a group sucked so your profit sharing is down.

Cuz there's less profit to share. And so you know, we talk about it and when it's up or down. And so those are two things you want. You re- reset the entitlement and the ownership aspect and then you can figure out from after those two things are in place how to do the calculation.

I used to do ours when I was your size once a quarter because it wasn't much money and it'd be like 500 bucks or something after a quarter, right? And so that cuz there wasn't a lot of profit. Weren't a lot of revenue. And there's four of us, you know?

And so uh and I wanted it to be a little bigger check, but what I figured out was is that people weren't they couldn't count on it cuz they only got it every so often. And so it wasn't connecting in their brains. And so once we figured that out, we went back we went to a monthly.

And you could say, "Hey guys, every so often we had a great month.

I'm taking all of us and the wives and the kids out to dinner and we're all going to a movie and I'm going to spend some company money just to say thank you cuz we I'm going to share some of our profits with you that way." And or hey, here's a $100 handshake. We

had a good month.

And it's not formal and it's not a bunch of math calculation and you can keep it fairly primitive and simple that way when there's three of you without getting into some kind of freaking spreadsheet analysis. And by the way, our team does not know how profits are calcu how the how their portion of profit sharing is calculated.

That way they don't have to back into and worry about what's going on. All they know is we share with them.

And it's pretty dadgum sweet these days.

So, does that make any sense? What did you What did you say you did wrong?

Well, so what I've been doing is we we

do commercial residential remodeling. Mhm.

And so by the time I take all the expenses out and after I pay myself and

there's some left, then I I I usually

what I've been doing is just kind of giving them 3% of that. I didn't tell them this. I just told them that they're going to get um some sharing in the profits we make of this there's a successful job.

>> That's a good that's a good move. I like that. What's wrong with that? >> Then then they don't get in it they don't get any. But then I'm also trying to figure out what percentage should I save back for retained earnings because sometimes we don't work for a while and

then I'm like don't have enough there to to save Yeah, the profits that we use to calculate number we use to calculate profit sharing is after we have set retained earnings aside.

Okay, that's what I thought that's what I was kind of wondering. >> Yeah, so we set retained earnings aside and that creates we have several layers of profit in net profit np1 through

seven. I have seven different layers of profit before or after certain expenses

and the only one that gets paid off the actual np7 is me and a couple of our

senior leaders. But everybody else is different layers in there as to where we're cutting profit in and out. Cuz I've got some of the VPs that some of the vice presidents get paid a percentage of the profits in their area as part of their comp.

And that's not technically profit sharing. I've got profit sharing in addition to that. So I've got all that complicated bull crap in there, but yeah it's after retained earnings. So you have to run your business and when money's left after you run your business, you share with them.

Okay.

Okay, so you think it's okay to do it by job like I've been doing. >> Oh, I think it's smart.

Okay. Cuz there are jobs at times when we don't we don't profit. Yeah. I mean like

I profit but they the business doesn't profit and so then we just say, "Hey, we need to talk about why this didn't profit." >> Exactly. We're all self-employed.

And if the job doesn't make a profit, we don't have anything to share.

Hello. >> Okay. That's perfect.

How old are you? Thank you.

Uh 24. Man, you're sharp. You're doing a good job. I'm proud of you.

Very you thought you you spent some time thinking about this. >> Yeah. It's really good.

>> your book. I read your book so Tell I want I want the audience to hear how your team members reacted when you first gave them some profit share. What was that reaction like?

Uh the first time it was like $6 and they were >> [laughter] >> making a joke that they could go buy an ice cream. Right. >> But it's been up since then and and they really it it really surprises them every time. Yeah. And so that's what I wanted to just emphasize by asking you that question is because that is the key to

building loyalty. Uh they appreciate you know even though it was six bucks, they still appreciated the thought. You know we've all heard it's the thought that counts. Our wives try to drill that into us husbands, you know it's the thought that counts. Get the birthday card, write a note, you know the whole drill. Uh but I just want to make sure young leaders catch this.

This is how you build a business on core

people is fundamentally showing people how much they matter to you.

Uh and I think it's going to serve you very well. So I wanted to applaud you as well. That's really good. Yeah, he did a great job. Very well done.

So yeah, building a business you love, one of the things we talk about in there is is the importance of being able to [music] you know share. Uh that it's the beauty of small businesses. Most small businesses are not greedy people.

They're not like corporate America. They don't piss on their people. Most of them take care of they're like family. They take care of each other. And so

you know that guys like that right there, that's pretty cool. [music] He starts with $6.

That's That's pretty fun. I like that a lot.

>> [music] >> Owning a business can be a heavy load.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and host of the show Front Row Seat on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today.

Monica's in Houston. Hey Monica, how are you?

Doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I'm calling. Thank you for taking my call, first of all. I've been listening to your show for quite a while. >> [clears throat] >> And it's primarily me that listens to your show.

My husband doesn't doesn't at all.

My question today has to do with the cash-out refi. My husband and I are

almost to the retirement age. He will return 65 next week, and I will turn 64

in the summer. We have no savings, no retirement. Our joint income is around 116k.

We have debt, personal loan, credit cards, and automobiles of 83,000. And we

have a $28,000 mortgage lien that we

disagree on, but we do have it against our primary residence.

Um so, my husband looking to getting a cash-out refi to roll all of our debt

into um one loan to free us essentially of

all the debt. Well, it doesn't free you of it. It moves it onto your house.

Right. It moves it onto the house.

>> paying off anything. You're just moving it.

Right. Okay. And so, I was trying to explain that to my husband. I said, "Look, this is a 30-year loan, and we're

our mortgage is at 53k right now. What Why would it make sense for us to roll all this debt into another mortgage loan? We're almost at the finish line." So, the loan officer is tag teaming me

with my husband trying to get me to agree that it makes sense to finance

this loan again and put all the debt

into one pot. And he's saying that I would be walking away with an extra $3,000 a month if I were to go this

route. And if we added an extra $2,000 a month, we could pay off the mortgage in 6 years.

I don't know if that makes sense to me or not. I need you to help me to sort this out.

Well, what's bothering you is that nothing changed in your habits when you do this.

Correct. And so when you're 70, you're going to be back in debt.

I don't like that idea. I I don't want >> but that's what you're going to do because the system y'all are using now put you here, and you're not changing anything in the system. You think and your husband thinks he can borrow his way out of debt, and you can't dig your hole dig your way You can't dig out the bottom of a hole and get out. That's not how it works. Um So uh um

How much of the 83 is his truck?

Uh 32,000. Mhm.

Isn't that weird that I knew that?

I'm prepared to sell my truck and just drive the other one cuz we >> How much do you owe on the other truck?

No, that Jeep is 24,000, and we have an F-150 that we paid cash for that he drives occasionally when he doesn't drive the more expensive truck.

And I told him >> All right, you you have How many cars do y'all have?

We have three vehicles, two trucks and one Jeep. Okay. And and truck number one

that he drives occasionally that's paid for is worth what?

Maybe $6,000.

>> Okay. And the other truck is worth 32 and owes 32 on it, right?

And then there's the Jeep that you owe 24 on, right?

Correct. Mhm.

Think I found the problem. >> Mhm.

If I was going If I 65 years old and getting ready to retire and I was stone cold broke, I'd be scared.

Oh, well, I am scared. >> Not looking for a 6-year plan that some freaking loan officer gave me. That gives me chills.

So, y'all probably aren't going to do this cuz I don't think you and your husband are aligned on this, but mathematically what y'all ought to do is sell both these cars. >> Mhm. Both of them. Yeah. And not refi and not do a cash-out refinance. Instead, pay your way out of debt and be debt-free sooner than 6

years.

That's what makes sense to me. That's what I've been trying to explain >> you could pay off the house and everything in about 3 years

at 68 years old, but you're going to be not driving these two cars.

Well, I tried to explain that to him. I said, "Look, you know, we we owning two vehicles with two notes didn't make sense to me to begin with.

We have a concession trailer that we use occasionally, and that's why he bought the truck to move the concession trailer around, but now that we have one spot, you know, I don't see us moving it all the time. I see us trying to use it to get out of debt. Yeah. >> So, I really feel like not giving up the

53K that we have left on the mortgage

and sacrificing for 185. Yeah, so $85,000 if you sold these two cars gets you completely out of debt, mortgage, and everything, and you make 116. You can do that in 2 to 3 years.

And you should because you're freaking retirement age and broke.

>> [laughter] >> Can you say that one more time? Cuz my husband is not here, and I want to make sure that I got it written down just like >> Well, I mean, you said you had $83,000 in debt, right? Not counting the mortgage. >> Yeah. Okay. And if I take 32 from that

if I take 32 from that, I have 51. And

if I take 24 from that, I have 26.

26 and 53 mortgage is 78.

You make Okay. 116.

How fast you pay off 78 making 116? If

you paid off 35,000 a year, you're done in 2 years. If you pay off $25,000 a year, you're done in 3 years.

Okay. And that is that's no six-year plan that makes your banker rich.

That's what I told him. I said we could do this in 3 years. >> last financial planner you need is a loan officer.

That's what I thought.

And that's why I've been listening to your radio station so I don't get into these >> don't I don't know if you're going to get hubby to do all this, so.

Well, you know what? I I think it's time to try. Yeah. And by the way, the timeline Dave gave you speeds up if you guys are working extra. Yeah. You could do it in two be done in 2 years.

>> got health >> And if you got no house payment, no payments at all, I got your $3,000. Now

it's $4,000.

Freed up to start saving some money. You start saving 50 grand a year and you do that for 4 or 5 years, you're going to have a decent nest egg in your 70s.

And you won't be retiring eating dog food.

Alpo, the breakfast of champions.

It's like, oh my gosh. You know, I mean, yeah. But here's the thing. We've been buying crap we can't afford cuz we wanted it and some loan officer told us this is a good idea. The guy at the car lot said, "Look, I got you approved." And like we're supposed to celebrate that? Hello.

You owe more on your cars than you do on your house. Oof.

Ouch.

It's fact. Pinch me.

>> [laughter]

>> It's true. What is wrong with this picture? Right? Yeah, well, she's been controlling the house thing and he's been doing the other stuff and now he's tinkering with the thing she's been controlling and that's why she rose up.

That's right. Good for you, kiddo. Yeah, I I'm afraid I'm going to cause some marital discord and I'm happy to.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

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Charles is in Sacramento. Hey Charles, how are you?

Doing well. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve, sir. What's up?

Hi, I was wondering if um pulling out an SB LOC for an investment property would be the right move for me.

Okay. Well, I'm I'm guessing you're fairly new to our show.

Um I've been listening for a while, but my financial advisor presented me with the option of an SB LOC. Um he's not pushing me towards it, just you know, presenting me options. Mhm.

But I mean, if you've been listening to this, you know I don't borrow money or tell people to borrow money, right?

That's right. Okay.

So, the answer would be no.

Okay, got you.

Yeah, I mean, that's I I love real estate and I love investment property. I hate debt on it. And I really hate the Small Business Administration.

They suck.

And for you to get tied in with them and what that's going to do to the rest of your whole portfolio and all just to get a rental property is the risk level that you just took on. Neither one of you two are thinking about what you're doing here. The risk level is through the roof. So, your investment guy's risk meter is broken.

Because the the the SB LOC is always tied to other assets as well.

Yeah. And so you're putting all of that at risk to screw around with a rental property in California.

Well, that's So, that's the thing. The rental property actually isn't in California. Um >> worse. It's a lot further away in the island of Guam. Oh, that's really bad.

Um it's my wife's grandmother's house.

>> No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No, we don't We do not have rental property that's long investment property that's long distance.

And uh we certainly don't buy grandmother's house for rental property in Guam. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

This guy You're trying to figure out a way to do something you can't afford and this guy's presenting you an option to finance something you can't afford to do. And really it's God just yelling at you, "Don't do this." >> [laughter] >> So true. It's a long distance headache.

That's what you're looking at. Well, it's foreign country. Hello. I mean, if you're going to invest in real estate, you want real estate to be a very predictable environment.

Okay? A- And so, if you're going to invest money in a foreign country situation, you've completely left the stability of the US economy.

And so, um you can do that, but you need to be able to burn that amount of money down.

And so, if you want to buy a property in Mexico, you want to buy a property in Guam, Costa Rica, I got a friend of mine bought a place in Costa Rica the other day. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. But we we somehow we Americans think that everywhere else in the world still functions the way the United States functions and it doesn't. It's a freaking banana republic. Hello. And so, you know, the- they may just come over there and take your property.

So, you need to be able to just abandon that amount of money at any point if you're going to do that.

And I'm not saying Guam is going to do that. I'm not saying Costa Rica is going to do that. But we cannot make the assumption that their that their governmental processes, their ownership, private property rights function the same way in that culture in that country as it does in the US. It doesn't.

And so, you know, these things turn socialist or communist in about an eye blink and all of a sudden, you know, you're one of those evil property owners. So, you you just have to think about these things. You need to be able to burn that amount of money down and you don't borrow on small business line of credit to buy in

a foreign country. No, for sure.

For sure. So, you do whatever you want, but you called and asked us and we're always going to tell you the truth cuz we love you. And we we don't want you to get hurt and you're going to [clears throat] regret that one if you do it.

I promise. Albert in Phoenix. Hey Albert, what's going on?

Hey, hey, you doing well. So, I'm 25 and

my girlfriend's 23. Friday is our 5-year

anniversary. So, happy for that. With

that timeline comes marriage and I do want to propose to that girl. Good.

>> But, my main concern really isn't that.

It's what comes with that marriage. So, the potential in-laws.

And they're fantastic people, don't get me wrong. Love them, but I've noticed that their finances are all out of whack from like the last 3 years. So,

>> they're in their early mid-50s and they

have nothing saved up for retirement.

They owe $170,000 on their house and they make a combined household income of 70 to 75,000

depending on overtime. >> Is your girlfriend sane?

Um, yeah.

>> going to be a wife that wants to do what they've done?

No, no, no, no. We're definitely financially on the same page. So, we're good there. >> Okay, so the two of you are going to be okay. The only question is is you've got this potential liability off in the distance. Yeah, so they're going on three to four vacations a year while we're living with them. >> fix them. If you're going to start out your marriage trying to fix the in-laws, you're going to have a long life.

Okay, got you. It's just that we're in this situation where we've been asked for money personally for the most basic necessities such >> I would just say no. >> groceries. Say no.

And if she doesn't get comfortable and you don't get comfortable saying no, then we've got other problems, but it's the two of you that are the problem, not them, cuz they're a known quantity.

We know what they're going to do.

They're going to piss away money and ask you for money.

That's a given. Has your girlfriend given in and given them money?

We lost you there.

Did she Did she give them money or not? Say it again. Yes. Okay. Yeah, now that's the That's what I'd be worried about. >> This is This is the person we need to be talking to, not them. Yeah.

You're not going to fix them. The only thing you're going to determine with her is the two of you are going to hold hands, lock arms, and say this is how we're going to handle life, and life includes your crazy butt parents.

Got you. My only concern is I don't want to be a pocketbook for their retirement, and >> Don't be. It's hard to say no.

>> Don't be. It's It just plan on it. I'm planning on saying no.

This is the premarital counseling stuff.

This is This would be issue number one for me based on what you presented.

That's what you called us about. Yeah, I agree you should have a concern, but you got to hear what Dave said. The concern is with your girlfriend, potential wife.

And you. Yeah, you both have to be locked in here to say no, we're never going to say yes again. We made that mistake once, we're not going to do it again. These are not poor pitiful people. These are people who don't manage their money well.

So, it's hard to feel sorry for them when they need money.

Right?

>> [snorts] >> And you need a new phone. Okay.

>> [laughter] >> It's about the fourth time I've been through that. All right.

So, guys, learning to set boundaries with your in-laws and with extended family of any kind. An extended family is anyone that doesn't live inside of our home. You, your

spouse, your personal minor children.

You have to be able to set boundaries with them and create quality, kind, compassionate boundaries to say,

"We're not able to do that. It doesn't match with our goals. I'm sorry, we're unable to do that." And about the fourth time they'll get mad and they'll say, "But you deserve But I deserve No, I'm sorry, I we're not able to do that.

I'm just I'm so sorry, we're not able to do that. Yeah. And we we we've looked at our budget and we just don't have room for that. >> Yeah. And well, we're a millionaire. I I know, but we looked at our budget and we don't have room for that.

So, um you know, that that's I mean, you just you just got to be kind about it and go, "No." And um you know, now I'll be Listen, I'll be happy to get you into Financial Peace University and you know, I'll help you sell your car and um you know, I'll help you get an extra job >> Yeah. and uh I'll coach you. I'll be your biggest cheerleader. I love you. I want you to win, but I'm not able to

enable. Yeah. I love that. That's really good.

I would say, "Hey, let me tell you about these baby steps. I'll walk with you. I'll hold you accountable. You up for that?" But you can't you But that's only after they ask for money.

You don't just go marching in there and suggest that. They're not going to hear it. But they come in and go, "You know, we're not able to do that, but I'll tell you what I can do." >> Yes. And even if you want to go super crazy, you could go, "Listen, if you get on a plan and you're real intense and you're starting to work, I might even throw in some towards the plan after I see the plan working.

Wow. But the plan right now is you just spend piss away money and then you come over here wanting some. That's not a plan I'm in for. Mhm.

You you pissing away money and then tell me I got to make it up. That's not That's not something we do here.

That's hard.

>> [music]

[music]

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One of our favorite things to do around here is a debt-free scream in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. We even have a debt-free stage in the lobby of [music] Ramsey Solutions so we can see the people and talk to them when they're doing their scream. And our super favorite thing to do is when it's one of our own Ramsey Solutions team members,

which will be true of Josh today and his wife Holly are with us to do their debt-free scream. Welcome, guys. Thank you. >> Thank you. We're so excited, you guys. Very cool. All right, Josh, tell people what you do here and how long you've been with us. Yeah, I've been here at Ramsey for about 5 and 1/2 years and I am on the Ramsey Education team. I'm a relationship manager for our sponsors.

Okay, and that's the high school curriculum primarily and we get sponsors that pay for that to go into the high schools and you help get that done. Yes, sir. Very cool cuz the high school curriculum's had about 6 million students do it now. Mhm. I believe.

>> Yes, sir, and counting. Yeah, there we go. Good stuff. Well, congratulations.

All right, how much debt have you two paid off? We paid off $175,000.

Just just north of that. Goodness gracious. In what period of time?

18 months. WHOA!

>> [laughter] >> OKAY. NOW, we don't ask incomes because your team members are all standing around. That would be unfair.

Otherwise, we always put everybody else on the spot, but how in the world do you pay off $175,000 in 18 months? That's like $10,000 a month. A lot of Chick-fil-A. Um but then [laughter] also like working here, working our jobs, but it's been so fun. So. Yeah, when she says Chick-fil-A, we we picked up some side hustles. We uh we worked at Chick-fil-A. Uh it's been super fun.

Uh I've always done Instacart so I did Instacart on the side and um yeah, when

we first got married, I I'd been saving up money while we were engaged to to put down, you know, once we got married we wanted to start knocking out the house and >> had a chunk to throw at it. >> Exactly. And how long have y'all been married? A year and a half. >> 18 months. Okay, so that's this begins.

Okay. Okay. So this is starting to sound like Holly brought this this baggage [laughter] in. I did. I did. I came with a lot of baggage which was the mortgage.

But you're worth every penny.

>> so. He [laughter] stuck with me. >> mortgage? >> It was our mortgage. Yes, sir. >> off your freaking house? >> Yes, we did. Oh, [laughter] I was thinking student loans. Oh my god. So you married a woman with a house. I got it. Okay. >> [laughter] >> That's a lot better. That's a lot better deal. Okay. Good job, man. Wow. And you

paid off the house How old are you two?

I'm 27. >> I'm 29. And you have a paid for freak What's this house worth? Uh just under 300,000. Geez, so you guys are going to be millionaires in no time. >> Yeah, we're excited.

So you just you got married and then just went we're game on. We're knocking that You went gazelle intense on the house. We did. Yeah, yeah. We treated baby step six like baby step two. And that's kind of something before we got married we went through FPU and uh we just wanted to you know, we we dreamed.

We said like hey what what could life look like if we had no payments. Uh and so So neither one of you had any consumer debt coming in. No, no. I I when I first started working here that's when I You cleaned all that up. >> cleaned all my I had about $40,000.

>> obviously responsible because she had no debt and [laughter] a house. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh that's that's a shout out to mom and dad for >> Yeah. Thank you guys. you know, she was listening to Dave Ramsey growing up in the car. In the back seat [laughter] of the car asking lots of questions that I didn't know what I was asking but she was answering and it got us here today.

So a Financial Peace baby and a Financial Peace employee. There we go.

That's how this happens. Okay.

>> [laughter] >> Wow. Look at y'all. I'm so proud of y'all. What you've done, man. Your mom and dad got to be proud, too. I think so. Yeah, they're all >> mean y'all went kind of freaky, though.

I mean you went after this mortgage.

Were people making fun of you outside of here? I know in here they cheer you on, right? Yeah. [laughter] Um they weren't making fun of us but they were definitely like, you know, this isn't the wisest decision on paper, and I was like, yeah, but it's like the best decision for us. [laughter] Yeah, it's always, you know, the answer is always just what we're solving for peace. >> Yeah, yeah, and that was important, so.

Yeah. How many hours a week at the height of all of this were you guys putting in? Um, total probably like 70,

probably 15 to 20 at Chick-fil-A. Yeah.

And what And so, you guys were working together at Chick-fil-A?

>> Did you Did you work in the back of the house? I worked in the front of the house, It was so fun. [laughter] It was. It's a blast. So, shout out to our Chick-fil-A family. Why was that Why was that so fun? Oh, well, I've never worked in food, so I was like, they just seem so happy. Like, whatever they've got going on, I want to be a part of that. So, on our honeymoon, I was like, can we please get jobs at Chick-fil-A? And then we did, and it was It was so fun.

>> that's fantastic. >> [laughter] >> I got to tell you, of all the couples we've interviewed here today >> question. It really is.

Baby, can we get jobs at Chick-fil-A?

>> Yeah. >> It was so fun. >> Yeah. Well, you guys I cut your food budget, I imagine. >> Yeah, they feed you every time you work, so like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, like meals were checked off the list.

>> Amen. Yeah, yeah. I knew that was part of it. I could just tell.

>> [laughter] >> What Are you Are you saying something about, you know, how we look here?

>> you look You look You look like a great diet to me. No, I'm just saying, when you when you both decide to work at Chick-fil-A and you're gazelle-intense, you have figured out that there's some free food in here. >> That's right. >> a really good deal. That's better than rice and beans. No offense, Dave.

>> [laughter] >> Chick-fil-A chicken is That's pretty good. Jesus chicken trumps it, for sure.

That's true.

You guys are amazing. Way to go. All right, now, um, so, when people say, how did you pay off your house at 27 years old, what do you tell them? Yeah, I mean, there's the obvious, uh, you know, get on the every dollar budget. Uh, that was something from the get-go. We had to make sure we we knew where every dollar was going, otherwise this doesn't happen.

Um, so, that was, yeah, everybody says that, but I would say, biggest thing for me is just, uh, taking time to be grateful throughout the journey.

Looking back on how blessed we are, how how blessed we're we're able to have jobs, we're able to have side gigs, and we we hit a milestone and we we're just thankful to God that, you know, he he put us in a spot where we can do this, you know, so that was big for me, but Yeah, I think it was really fun to like lock arms in the first year of marriage and like we are naive. Like life's going to get hard, but it does feel like we can accomplish anything together.

So that was kind of like being on the same page was really really fun together. It's obvious that you guys were really dialed in together and there wasn't one of you dragging the other one along and that's You're right. You can take on anything if you do that. You can do anything you want to do. So I'm so proud of y'all.

Very very well done. Very well done.

What was the hardest part?

Yeah, we were thinking about this question. There were definitely some nights like when you're in the grind of like Thursday night we're eating chicken again. >> Again. And we're like I've got to go make chicken after this.

He's got to go sell chicken after this. [laughter] And we were just exhausted. So we were looking at each other and we were like we're shells of humans. Like is this worth it?

So there were moments of really really hard, but you get a good night's sleep and you wake up and you can go again the next day. Yeah, I can handle that, but I think the biggest the the hardest thing for me was I I'm I'm traditionally a a spender. You know, so when when we have most of our budget going towards throwing it at this every month, I'm like, ah, dang it, you know, I can't go buy a new pair of shoes or something like that.

But you got there. We did. And now [clears throat] you're What What's the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate? I mean, you got your complete >> have a cheeseburger. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, no more chicken.

No more chicken. In-N-Out Burger, baby.

We're going to cross the street.

>> [laughter] [gasps] >> Yeah, we well we kind of already celebrated. We went to uh we kind of redid our honeymoon. We went to Universal Studios in Orlando uh last month. And so we we I had that kind of we like cash flowed that and did that before we even, you know, um had made the last payment.

>> Exactly. So, uh we did that, but yeah, we'll we'll save up for a new car. My car is getting old and um you know, boost up everything outside of that. What are you driving?

I'm driving a 2008 uh like little Infiniti SUV.

>> Yes. >> [laughter] >> And he wants a Ford Raptor, so that's next. Okay, so okay, that's great. So, here's what I want people to hear this.

Obviously. >> How long is it going to take you to save up for the Raptor now that you're debt-free? I 8 months to 12 months, I would say. >> Yeah, it'll probably be a year.

Cuz we'll cuz we'll let off the gas. We'll not work as much at Chick-fil-A. Like, we'll relax a little bit. But, we'll get there eventually.

You say that until he wants that Raptor a little earlier. [laughter] He's not He's identified that he's driving a piece of crap, so that's good, yeah. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> That's good.

I like that. >> it'll be a used one, Dave. You know about these these cars are I've heard about them. >> [laughter] >> Heard about them.

Heard the rumor.

Yeah. Proud of y'all. Way to go, guys.

You're rockstars. This is absolutely amazing. Very well done.

>> [laughter] >> Josh and Holly, Ramsey Solutions team members and apparently Chick-fil-A team members. [laughter] $175,000 paid off house and everything at 27

years old and 18 months of marriage.

Man, don't tell me you can't do it when you're Gen Z. Then you These guys are just going mic drop. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, ONE. WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

>> [screaming]

[applause] >> MAN.

MAKES ME PROUD HE'S WORKING HERE. YEAH.

>> What a sharp guy, man.

>> We knew that already, but you put all that underpinning, all that foundation under it. My gosh, I'm blown >> And let me point out that when you marry someone that is aligned with you financially >> and that is sharper than you. >> Well, that's true, too. I wasn't going to say that part, but hey, that is really cool to see their values align and now look at them. Boom.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Kyle in Kentucky. My wife and I have been told by our financial planner that it's better to invest in the market than to pay off your mortgage if the interest rate is less than your average rate of return in the market. He explained that market gains can be used to pay lump sums on the principal of your mortgage to pay off your home sooner that way. Is this the best course of action?

Well, Kyle, I don't know if you've been listening to us for a while. If you have, you know our answer. If you haven't, uh there's a reason why Dave developed the baby steps many, many years ago uh because of the momentum and

the uh strategy actually pays off because it's disciplined action. And so, the answer is we disagree with your financial planner. That's a numbers game. It's a manipulations, fancy math try to make you feel good to invest with the financial planner when the discipline the old Dave you've used the adage so many times the the tortoise always beats the hare, right?

The idea of just discipline action and so maybe >> then there's the other thing that the financial planner's math is just it's not fancy, it's just wrong. >> Yeah, yeah, right.

he's saying you make 6% difference.

And that you're going to get out of debt faster. Well, that's wrong.

Because he left out a key mathematical

figure in this equation. This equation is very naive and very primitive and very simplistic.

If you did a sophisticated analysis of this, you would factor in risk.

And risk is not factored in here. You just took risk.

You put money in the in the stock market, which is risk. You didn't pay off your mortgage, which is risk.

And so you've if you take if you adjust for risk and taxes cuz you do pay taxes by the way on that investment returns. So these investment returns that you're going to lump sum and throw at this are taxable investment returns. So you did he didn't adjust for taxes and he didn't adjust for risk. So your financial planner's full of crap is the problem. And it's typical financial planner. Too many of them are this naive, this primitive, this unsophisticated.

And so when you adjust for risk and taxes, there is no benefit.

Here's the way you know this in your heart, Kyle. Let's pretend your house was paid for.

And your financial planner says, "Hey, you should go borrow $300,000 on your house and give it to me to invest in a good mutual fund and I'll make 10, 11, 12% on it.

And you can borrow that money at 3 or 4%.

And you'll make the difference.

It's the exact same discussion mathematically.

But when you say, "You want me to borrow on my paid-for house?" You know what happens? Your heart jumps.

Which is where you measure risk. You do math in your head and you measure risk in your heart.

And your heart skips a beat and goes, "Not just no, but hell no. I'm not borrowing on my house. It's paid for, you idiot." Why would I borrow on my house to invest with you?

And it's the exact same equation.

So, when you reverse it that way, you you makes you realize this guy's not playing with a full deck.

He's not got all the parts of the math equation in there. So, yeah, you need a new financial planner. This guy's more worried about what you invest with him than he is what you're going to end up with at the end of the day. You're going to end up with a lot more with a paid-for house and increased cash flow that you can invest in good mutual funds, which is what I've done, what Ken has done, what all the Ramsey personalities have done, what millions and millions of people have done that became baby steps millionaires, and they didn't have your financial planner.

So, you need to you need one that can do math. You got left out there. God, man, the arrogance of these guys. It's unbelievable. Tim is in New Jersey. Hey Tim, what's up?

Hi. Um how are you doing? Good. How can we help?

So, I'm a baby step five now. So, and

that's where I do have a car lease. That's the only thing that I my the Well, then you're not in baby step five. You have debt on your car.

You're right. So, I'm So, I have two questions. One if I should pay it off, but then my main question is the reason why is because I would I would like to have an like a nice car. I can afford it. But, uh it's going to come out more money. It's going to be a bigger headache for me to that have to sell it

and everything like that. And I just I I don't have a big payment on it compared to what I make. But my my main concern

is my wife is very concerned when she when it comes to spending. So, we used to be really broke like we had a lot of debt and I I paid everything off and um No, you paid off everything but the car.

True. Okay. So, let's add that on the car. I I will pay off the car.

But um I I make enough to for my wife to

be able to spend um nicely for like for

stuff personal stuff. I work at night as well. So, I I do music and I work at night and >> What's your household income?

So, I make 170 after taxes roughly. So,

I'm going to ask her so it's not um Good for you. You work hard. Good for you.

And you have no debt except the car lease and you're paying it off. Good.

Okay. And what is it How much is it your wife How much is it your wife has trouble spending? How much money?

Um it comes like any any purchase that is like like $250 $300 for for clothes

or something like that. >> Well, if you do a detailed if you do a detailed budget where every dollar has an assignment before the month begins and she's in agreement with that budget, she'll be able to look at that budget and say, "If I spend this $250 on some clothing,

we still have the money for groceries.

We still have the money for investing in retirement. We still have the money for

X, Y, or Z." And as long as she knows she's okay, she can spend it. But when it's all discombobulated and it's just kind of swimming around in your head and you don't have a detailed plan, she doesn't know it's okay to spend it.

When we were broke, Tam, Sharon, and I would go to the grocery store and when we're buying groceries to feed our family, we wondered because we didn't have a budget, we didn't have a plan. We wondered if we just spent the money to keep the lights on at the house.

So, it's stressful to buy groceries.

That's what your wife is experiencing. But, once we had a plan, we said this much is for groceries, this much is for electricity, this much is for the house payment, and we have that plan laid out, then when we spend money on groceries, we're not stressed because we know it's a part of an overall plan, and we're going to be okay. She needs to know she's going to be okay if she spends this money mathematically. Yeah, and hang on the line.

We're going to give you Rachel's book. It's a number one best-seller, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. My guess is your wife's background, in in other [music] words, the environment she grew up in, plus her experience with money to this point, is shaping some of that fear.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. [music] Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of the Front Row Seat show on the Ramsey network. He's my co-host today. Josh is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Josh, how are you? Sure. I'm great, David. It's a pleasure to talk to you. You too, man. What's up?

Uh so, I had a question. We're in okay shape financially, the wife and I. Uh we have combined finances. Um and I've got some extra side hustle cash that I've got coming in.

And usually, I just use that to play golf or buy some beer or do whatever. And and you know, no questions asked. But, I want to start like surprising her maybe with a trip here or there. Just something that's a little bit more than just a you know, you you don't pay for it in cash.

You might need a debit card or something like that. Um so we I'm I guess my question is without opening another account, what's the best way for me to go about doing that? Surprising her while also, you know, making sure our finances kind of stay together and in one place.

What's your household income?

Uh right now we're at about, you know, 140, 150, I would say. Mhm. How much debt have y'all got?

Uh nothing but the house. Good for you.

Well done. Okay.

All right. Well, um I mean, you you certainly can do whatever you want to do. You're not doing a bad job. You're managing well.

Um what [clears throat] Sharon and I have done and what we teach is is that all monies are combined.

Okay. Now then that begs the question, how do you surprise Sharon with something? Okay, or how do you surprise your wife with something? And um if it's all in the budget, it's kind of boring.

It's all the, you know, surprise, there's your surprise fund, you know, and so um you know, the way it ends up working at our place, honestly, um we [clears throat] do a lot of travel today, particularly.

So that's a little different, but aside from that, um she does not want to do all the detailed work of planning the trip.

And so uh we would have in our case, you

know, maybe a modified way of our thing into you would just be that, you know, you could have a surprise line item in the budget. This is money I'm a a sinking fund that is for me to surprise you with and I'm going to do different things and we might I might buy a trip or I might buy you something else or whatever and um the fact that the money is in the budget is not a surprise, but um the item or whatever I buy is going to be a surprise cuz it's a surprise it's a surprise fund.

And you guys are grown-ups, you're not 4 years old, so you know, that probably will work good enough. Um if she has to be like tricked

into thinking you have money you don't have, I that one I'm not I'm not good with that idea.

No idea plus about tricking her. It's just I know. >> I'm just saying, you know, you got to hide it from her so she's surprised. Is that Well, is the surprise when you reveal that you have booked the trip or the surprise when you just put her in the car and say, "Hey, we're headed to the airport." What level are we talking about?

Well, I mean, like yeah, it'd be nice that you know, I don't think we'd get as far as because we have, you know, a child and all that. It's like we can't I can't just put her in the car and say, "Hey, we're headed to the airport." But it'd be nice to have something booked a few months out and then go to her a couple weeks in advance and say, "Hey, you know, that free weekend that we have it's not free because you know, I got something booked that I'd like to do." Yeah. >> you can do that with a uh an anonymous category.

We can name it whatever we want to name it, anonymous trips or surprise trips or surprise for this I like doing this for you as husband to wife, and so I'm going to put it in the budget. Yeah. And I'm going to give it a name.

>> we got we have so many friends like, you know, we've talked about it uh Sam and Jade Orshaw. I mean, Sam we talked about it on the show recently.

Sam uh they put money in their budget away for each other and it's just this is Jade's fun category and his fun category. Well, Sam never spends his and it just stacks and stacks and stacks and he does something really awesome. So, you could do it that way, too, where as long as it's in the budget we're communicating and it's like this this is the old blow envelope is what this is.

And if it stacks up, then you can surprise her with that. But there's a lot of ways to do it. But I'm always putting side hustle money in the budget.

Oh, yeah. Period. I'm not I'm not going to run it as a side No, not a separate account. I'm saying it's I know I'm just saying I know I know I'm just saying that's what he was doing. I'm not going to do that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No. But it's you know, certainly up to you, Josh. It's just you know And and again, we've been married 43

almost 44 years and so um there's very

little that surprises us. >> [laughter] >> Right, that is a different deal. I agree. So, it's like she's not for Yeah, it's not like you know >> Yeah, it's hard to surprise him even for like a birthday She doesn't even like a surprise birthday party. I'm just saying that this woman that's just her.

>> Does Sharon tell you what she wants for her birthday or do you surprise her with that? >> her with that. Yeah. And most of the stuff that we do on a trip, I mean I'm she may know the location Right.

and the date Right. but most everything else she's like, yeah, surprise me. Oh, that's fun. >> That's okay.

So, she wakes up and you're like, here's the agenda. Here's what we're doing. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. That's great.

Here's the plan and and you know I got a plan. So >> Oh, believe me.

>> It's ridiculous. >> [laughter] >> But it's fun. >> Jack is in New York City. Hey, Jack, what's up?

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

Sure, how can we help?

So, about 3 years ago I took out a SBA

7A loan to purchase specialty coffee roasting business.

And now that I'm about 3 years into this loan, there's about 100 grand left. It's a 9.75% interest rate and I feel like I'm finally catching my breath a little bit with this. So, I'm trying to figure out where I should start putting any extra

money I have. Catching your breath meaning you're just now profitable?

Uh yeah.

So, what kind of profit are we expecting in the coming 12 months?

Um it's about 20% of our revenue. Our

revenue last year was 660,000 and we're projected to do about a million this year. Okay, she may make 200 grand. And

is this a side hustle or is this your full-time gig?

Full-time gig. Okay.

And um So, what are you all living on? What's your What's it take for you all to live out of this?

Yeah, so um last year we brought home

about $77,000.

[clears throat] >> And you lived on that. Does your wife work outside of this?

No. Okay, so you lived on 80 grand last year. About, yeah. So, if you made 200 and you lived on 80 grand this year, you could pay off the loan.

Uh Yeah, yeah, I guess so.

>> 200 minus 80 is 120. The loan is 100, right? Right. >> Okay.

So, do that. Why not? Why would you keep this loan around? It's not a pet.

Yeah, yeah. No, I I I get what you're saying. It's um Yeah, okay. That makes sense.

>> So, hold on. Weigh that really quick with what you were thinking about doing.

What were you What were you thinking of?

Um well, we're actually looking to move into a new space. The spot that we're in right now is very small. Um and that's obviously going to be a another expense.

Um it's going to cost about 60 grand to get the new space build out. Um so, what I was actually thinking was potentially refinancing this loan because the interest rate is so high.

Um I could get 6 and 1/2% if I were to say to take out another $150,000 loan and then I'd have $50,000 of of capital

to put towards the build out and then The more the more debt that you have in business, the more unstable and [music] unsustainable you are.

The less debt you have, the more sustainable you are. So, I would go with everything you're talking about doing, only I would just pay off the loan first and then I would cash flow the move.

And wait till you feel how easy it is to breathe in. Yeah. And if you have this move completely cash flowed and you you've expanded, now you're making 300 grand >> [music] >> and you got no payments in the world and we're what, 24 months, 36 months from now? >> [music] >> It's a lot better place to be in business. It's too volatile out there, man.

>> [music]

[music]

>> It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But, here's a

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to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

>> [music]

[music]

>> If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using every dollar. It's more than just a budgeting app. It is now the whole plan, the Ramsey plan [music] built right in. You track your progress, you get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that'll help you free up more money and work the plan faster.

It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in App Store or Google Play. Adam is in Seattle.

what's up?

Oh, hi Dave. Um, thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it. Sure.

So, [clears throat] I just feel lost in life, you know? I am 26 years old.

I have no degree.

I'm unemployed and

I haven't been able to hold down a job since I graduated high school. I had like 10 jobs and Yeah. Yeah. What is your assessment? And give me a single one or two words at most. What what has kept you from holding down these jobs? What is it?

It's a lot of a lot of um

I I think it was a learned helplessness and then also just a lot of anxiety and

Did you self Did you self-sabotage?

Yeah. Yeah, it's Yeah. Okay. So, what's it What's at the core? And again, don't worry about how you word it. Just be as gut-level honest as you can. What do you think's at the core of all this anxiety, this fear, this worry? >> It's it's my fault. It You know, I I took ownership of it.

I just don't know how to move forward. So, yeah.

Well, the first way to move forward is to realize that you're not a failure.

And I think it would make a lot of sense for somebody in your shoes at 26 who's never had anything stick. Doesn't feel like you've had much stick in your life.

Is that a fair assessment?

Things haven't really been It hasn't been sticking and >> Yeah. Um I think it's just the the severe anxiety that I have and I am in therapy for >> Okay. for that. So, >> Are you making progress? Do you feel like you're making progress in therapy?

I I want to believe that. Yeah. So, let me tell you right now, instead of this big philosophical and big strategy answer, I think you just need a win. And

I think you need to redefine what winning looks like. And I think winning, if I were going to prescribe something to you, is go get a job and go get the hardest job you can get.

I mean that. I don't mean something that pays you very little. I mean hard working, maybe some manual labor, working the trades, and and have one clear win. And that is,

I'm going to keep showing up.

I'm not going I'm not a screw up.

Therefore, I'm not going to screw up.

And I got one thing. I'm going to show up and I'm going to keep a clean nose.

I'm going to do what they tell me. I'm going to learn. I'm going to learn how to do more. I'm going to be hungry and I'm going to keep showing up.

And I'm going to put 1 month, 2 months, and 3 months. And I while you're getting this therapy, I think you need to do something really, really hard. Because I think you need to prove to yourself that you've got grit and that you're actually tough and that you're not a victim. But I want to bring Dave in because I know he's got some great insight on this, too.

But I'm trying to simplify for him to get him a win, Dave. What are your thoughts?

Um So, I I I I am with um a relative

[clears throat] of mine. I live with a relative of mine and um What what relative? An uncle or aunt, brother, sister, what?

Yeah, um my uncle. Okay. Where's your mom and dad?

Um it

Physically, where are they located?

They're they're located like in in the same city. It's just where

you know, I've failed and I haven't been a really good son, so um Yeah. I I don't I don't I'm I'm not I don't really talk to my mom, um, much, but yeah.

What did you call for today? What did you What did you want from from from Dave and I? I just feel I feel lost in life, and I like cuz I'm 26, and um, you know, I have no degree, and you know, it's I'm just trying to No, listen, I can tell you right now, you're so ashamed of yourself.

You are just covered in shame. So, Dave and I aren't therapists. I'm glad you're with a therapist. I cannot preach that enough.

Do the hard work. Keep digging in. Don't stop that. But, I I'm going to go back to what I think I think instead of I don't think someone who's in your state of mind, uh, can have great clarity.

But, I'm going to give you a resource. I'm going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I want you to take the assessment, but I'm going to caution you that I think you're so down on yourself, and you are so loaded down with shame that I think you're going to have to do a few little things at a time to build up uh, belief in yourself. >> And that's why I'm prescribing hard work.

on a construction site to where your body aches all day, and and you just get

some confidence to go, "I'm showing up doing the hardest work possible." I really believe that's what you ought to try. Try it for 90 days, and and get that back stiffened up to say, "I just did the hardest work on the planet for 18, 20, 22, 25 bucks an hour hard work."

Work two jobs. Don't do anything but work. And stack up some cash it for the

whole purpose of beginning to believe that you're not an utter failure.

That's what I'm That's what I think you ought to do. Yeah, so, this is a real hard assignment.

Get a job doing anything that's tough, and show up every single day, and work your butt off. >> Yeah. You can do that. >> Okay. You can do that. >> So, like, to build to build character, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, build some grit. You're partying your butt off, aren't you?

Yeah. Yeah.

That's got to stop. You're killing yourself, man. Yeah. Okay?

Yeah. It's it's it's dripping off of you. So, if I was you, I'd plug into a great church and get some men that are walking with God, that are clean, that are sober, and and they'll walk alongside you, put their arm around your shoulder, and kick your little butt, and get you in a job, and hold you accountable for staying clean and working your butt off. >> Mhm.

And you got to get you got to get a community that's different. The community you're running in is a bunch of losers.

And you're going to become who you hang around with. So, you need to change who you're hanging around with. Yeah. And you're going to that's a mess. So, yeah, the the thing is this, Ken's Ken's prescription, I think, is exactly right.

You need some wins.

You need some confidence and some dignity, but that means you got to walk away from the stuff that's been taking it from you. Yeah. And that's the partying, and the reason you're not showing up at work is you're hung over, you're strung out, you can't wait for happy hour. Can't wait for smoking another joint while I'm on the job.

Well, of course you're getting your butt fired. No kidding. You can't pass a drug test. And so, that's what's going on. I mean, so you you know, you step in there, and you stay clean, dude, and and I'm telling you, get a whole new crew to run with, get into get into a good church, and as far as asking about family, and so, the reason your family is upset with you is not because you're a bad son. It's cuz they love you, and they hate watching you destroy yourself with your bad habits.

That's why they're they're not mad at you, they they love you, and they and they can't stand watching you kill yourself. So, what I would just walk away from that stuff and go completely clean, and just let's go for a whole new direction. I I we're going from drunk to monk right now, man.

I mean, game on.

Time to make a move, right? You got to make a shift here. And if you do something radical like that for 90 days, you can do all kinds of stuff. >> That's absolutely right. Absolutely right. And and I I can't say this enough.

At some point after the 90 days, I want you to do something that you're afraid of doing. >> Yeah. Something that you're afraid of.

That's like really a stretch. I don't mean something stupid financially. I just mean something you're afraid of. Um Which right now is everything. It is.

But I I cannot tell you how much hard work will do for the soul. Oh, yeah. You know, where And by the way, your only goal, by the way, is stack as much cash as you can in that 90 days.

>> Stay in clean. >> Yeah. Get a goal. Stay in clean. I think you can do this, Adam. I know you can. I really don't think it's as bad as your brain has told you it is. But yeah, you're going to have to walk away from some stuff and towards some new stuff.

Yeah. If you want a different recipe If you want a different thing, you got to change the recipe. Keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect a different result. That's the definition of insanity.

That's what the 12-steppers say. And they're quoting Einstein, by the way.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, one of our own Ramsey Solutions team members, Brandon Ray, and his wife, Madison, to do a debt-free scream. Welcome, guys.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Good, man. How are y'all? >> Doing well. Cool. So, how much debt have you two paid off? 118,000.

Wow. And how long did that take?

>> 4 years. Good for you. And you've been here about 4 years, right? >> Yes. Yes. Okay, tell folks what you do here at Ramsey. Software engineer on Trusted. All right. And so, if you're getting a tax getting help from a tax pro or real estate agent, it's very likely that Brandon Ray might have written the code. Sure. That caused you to be able to do that. So, that's how it works. Yeah. Way to go, guys.

Well, congratulations. What kind of debt was the 118,000? So, we had two cars, student loans, four credit cards. We also owed some family some money. So,

You were normal. Normal, yeah. How long you two been married? Almost 10 years.

Okay. So, where did you move Did you move from somewhere to come here 4 years ago? No, we're from here. You're from here. >> Yeah. Okay. And so, you joined the Ramsey thing, and around here the peer pressure's all positive to get you out of debt. It's the opposite of most places. >> Yes. Um like it's kind of over the top.

It's like like a cult or something. So, yeah. Yeah. But the Yeah, so we're pushing you cuz we love you to get out of debt. Everybody in the whole team's cheering you on, right? >> Yes. And so, you didn't have a choice hardly but to get on the plan, right?

>> Exactly, yeah. Okay. And so uh Madison, did you know what your husband was getting into when he joined this place?

No. >> [laughter] >> No, I didn't know we were joining a cult. But it's okay. It's the good kind of cult. It's a good one. Yes. There's good ones, there's bad ones. We're one of the good ones, yeah. I think that's awesome.

So you guys decided about the time you came to work here, okay, we're going to attack this debt. It was kind of a little bit before that. It was like, "Hey, I've been Well, I'll go back a little bit. My mom actually introduced us to you when we were when I was like a little kid. We were listening to you and Suze Orman and

we were doing all sorts of stuff there and she introduced me to like the envelope system and all sorts of stuff.

But like a kid, you know, I didn't listen to any of it until well into our marriage. Yeah. And I was like, "Hey, you know, And by then you're normal, you got all this debt. And I'm like, "Oh crap, we're starting to have kids and things are starting to stack up and we need some room." And then I was already starting to look into the baby steps and then I was like, "Hey, I really want to work here, too." So that that kind of went hand in hand.

Okay. Yeah. All right.

He suggested and I followed. Was that it? That's simple, huh? Yeah. I love my husband and Could you teach a class ON THAT, PLEASE? >> [laughter]

>> YEAH, I MEAN, WHY?

So no questions at all, no struggles with it. You just were like, "Okay, Well, I did a little bit of kicking and screaming. Oh, okay. [laughter] When he told me I had to stop ordering the cheese dip at, you know, the Mexican restaurant, I got a little frustrated, but Yeah, cuz she she's more of a dreamer and I'm I'm more of a realist, so it's like she comes to me with dreams and I'm like, "There's no room in the budget, so we need to like do some work to make those dreams >> Dreamer and dream killer.

Yeah. And apparently queso killer as well. Queso killer. Whoa, that's worse than dream killer.

Wow. It is. Hey, but we're debt free, so So can have Yeah, now we can get that queso. [laughter] She's bought in.

Now we got it. Okay, so what do y'all tell people the secret to getting out of debt is?

$30,000 a year, right? >> Yeah. That's pretty substantial. It's doing lots of late nights. We did I did two side jobs um to make that happen. So it was it was a lot and you gave up a lot cuz you had to like get the kids to bed, do a different things. It was it was a lot of sacrifice. >> queso And queso, yeah.

>> [laughter] >> A lot of missed out queso. >> So there was just a lot of a lot of sacrifices, a lot of late nights, a lot of coming here eating beans and rice.

The taco bar looks really good on Tuesday, but lots of beans and rice. We ate a lot of beans and rice. >> and lots, yes. Yes. So that was probably the hardest part, too, was like giving up time with the kids, giving up time with family at at night, and giving up just We like food, so Was it Was it [laughter] Was it worth it now that you're free? >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

How's it feel now that you don't have any debt except the house? It was weird at first cuz it's like, oh, is it is it over? Is it actually over?

>> feel real yet. And then yeah, it's still kind of getting to that real part, but it's like, hey, wait a second, we can actually the kids want to go do something, we can do it, right? It's not a no immediately, it's like, yes, we can go do that.

All right, for a guy who works here, you know it, you've lived it, you've done it now, what do you say to people that this is the key to winning on this debt-free journey? Well, you got yourself into it, you got to get yourself out of it. Just do it. Put in the work.

Get it done. Love that. What about you, Madison? What do you say the secret to getting out of debt is?

Uh a lot of patience and a lot of trusting your partner. A lot.

All those random subscriptions that you forget you have have to be canceled and

Exactly. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a constant thing. Yeah, way to go, guys. I'm so proud of you.

So proud of you. I know your parents are proud of you. Mhm. I tried to get you to do this 20 years ago. Now now you're doing really doing it. That's good. That's good. It's very good. Very good.

Well, congratulations, y'all.

Congratulations. And thanks for being on the team. We appreciate it. And when the taco bar's open, you get all the queso you want, okay? >> [laughter] >> Okay. And [clears throat] it's your birthday. >> Yes. No way. >> Yeah. Well, happy birthday.

Very nice. >> the present. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How are we celebrating tonight?

>> to ice cream after this. Wow.

>> Yeah. There we go. There we go. That's good. >> Two scoops two scoops are okay today.

There we go. Maybe a waffle cone.

>> Yeah. Oh. Easy.

I'm going crazy. Let's go crazy. That's it. I like it. Very well done. All right, Brandon and Madison from the Ramsey Solutions team living right here in Nashville. $118,000 paid off in 4 years. Oh, what are the kiddos' names and ages?

We got Beckett, he's 5. Cecilia, 7. And

Adeline is 5 months. >> Aw, perfect. Very cool. And they look like they've been practicing their debt-free scream. >> Oh, yes. So they're Y'all ready to do your debt-free scream? You ready, Adeline? Ready to do it? All right, count it down. Let's hear it. Debt-free scream. 3 2 1 >> 1 WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

>> [cheering and applause] >> THAT'S HOW IT'S DONE.

>> [applause] >> WOW, MAN. That is fabulous.

Congratulations, you guys. Well, and the team's out here cheering them on. Yeah.

It's fun. It's a good news about the team here. They love each other and they're always praying for each other, helping each other. Uh you know, passing on tips and encouragement and everything else versus tearing you down.

And it's one of the beauties of the culture in at Ramsey. I'm real proud of our team and how many of them came out. You can see them if you're watching on the YouTube, man. That's a huge number of people come out to cheer them on.

So, very cool stuff. And And isn't it interesting that you can grow up right here in the shadow almost of this building? Yeah.

telling you to do this stuff and then you look up and you're $118,000 in debt and you're married. And we've been married 5 years and oh, this is not working.

And oh, I got to do it, too.

And then joins our team 4 years ago and

actually applies the stuff and goes crazy. So, the interesting thing is with all this stuff, it's just a matter of a decision or three Mhm. to decide I'm not going to do that anymore. I am going to do this.

I'm not going to do that. I am going to do this. And this is I'm identifying what works, what doesn't work, and I'm going to plug into what works. I'm going to walk away from the things that don't work.

And this, you know, using these credit cards to get my airline miles bull crap. Uh, you know, I'm not I'm not paying attention to what we're spending at restaurants.

And then all of a sudden, boom, it gets serious and everybody turns their life around. You know, it's interesting when I asked Brandon the key to get out of debt, he said, "You got yourself into this. Now you got to get yourself out." Really ties into our last call, that young man who had, you know, done some things where he created all the shame and guilt. And And he's telling us multiple times he's lost.

And it's very similar to people that feel lost financially because they just do what the culture kind of tells them is normal to do. And they wake up one day and they feel lost, stuck financially. >> Oh, yeah.

You got yourself in it. You got to get yourself out. There's a lot of empowerment there. So, a great message to a lot of you that are new to the show and are in a lot of debt and you're just feeling like this is a pipe dream. It's really not. It's that simple, that mindset and then crazy discipline that you heard there. So, you can do it.

Larry Burkett used to say it takes you about as long to get out as it did to get in. Mhm. So, if you spend 3 years making the mess, takes you about 3 years to fix the mess. And my experience has been different than Larry's. Yeah. Uh, I think maybe because we got the whole Gazelle intensity thing going.

>> I I agree. >> It's roughly about half. >> Mhm. So, you figure if it took you 5 years to make the mess it's probably going to take you two and a half to get out of intensity. And so how quick do you clean up the mess? In their case they cleaned it up in four years. Took them about six years to make the mess. They've been married 10. >> [music] >> So that's how it worked out. Very interesting. Proud of you guys. Well done.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey good folks, Dr. John Delony here.

Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers.

That's ramseysolutions.com/careers.

>> [music] >> Our scripture of the day Hebrews 10:23 and 24. Let us hold unswervingly to the

hope we [music] profess for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.

John F. Kennedy said too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, that's really good. Ouch.

Ronnie is in San Jose. Hey Ronnie, what's up?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. I've been listening for you guys for years.

Well, thank you. >> And I really appreciate your words of wisdom. So, I'm going to be 59 in July

and I'm trying to think how I'm going to retire.

I'm working right now part-time as a teacher and um I own my house

but I don't think I can maintain the house here in California. I have a little farm

and there's always something happening, you know, the septic system and then uh the well is going bad. So, every time there's something else. So, I'm not sure I can I can keep this house for retirement.

And I was thinking to renovate it.

Uh I don't have enough cash to renovate the house and I was offered to take a HELOC and by listening for you for so many years, I know that you guys are not pro HELOC or taking any any loans.

So, at this point, I just don't know what to do. What's the best way to go?

What are you thinking of doing?

Uh I'm thinking to move to a different state. So, either Nevada or Arizona or somewhere I can old, you know, this

it's too expensive here. There's no way we can stay here with the taxes and everything else. It's just crazy.

We We Are you married?

I'm not married. I'm single. Uh right now my son lives with me and my adult son is going to finish his studying and he's going to move out, but right now he's still with me.

Um yeah, I'm sure about moving to a different state because I don't think there's no way I can I can retire where I am right >> Okay, so what is your property worth?

Um my property is about 1 1.6. Okay.

Well, that'll buy a nice property in another place, for sure.

Yeah, but they still need to to leave me some estate for retirement because I I don't have except the house and I have some money market. Mhm. How much do you have in a money market?

Right now, uh it's still collapsing, but it's about 600. Mhm.

Okay. So, if you sold your property I'm just thinking about the math only, not the emotions, but if you sold your property for a million six and you bought a property in another location for 600,000 and you paid cash,

and that would give you a million dollars to invest for your nest egg.

How would that sound?

I am not sure. I'm only 59. Yeah. I'm not sure it's going to take me all the way, if I don't Oh, it'll take you all the way. You don't make $100,000 a year now, do you? I am definitely not doing $100,000 a year now. What do you do? >> No. She's a teacher. Uh uh >> I'm a teacher, but part-time, yeah. So, what What do you make? Are you just working part-time?

Uh You know, I've been I've been working for so many years full-time, and I want to to do other stuff, so I'm working part-time.

Um How much does it take for you to >> now about 5,500 per month. Yeah, how

much does it take for you to live?

3,000. Okay.

So, you can work part-time as a teacher somewhere else, and so if you had a paid-for house in another market, and you put a million dollars or whatever, 800,000 in a in a good investment, and you're working part-time from 59 to 69,

you'd be in great shape, wouldn't you?

Yeah, but I don't want to work till 69.

I mean, you're you're going to have to make some money somewhere. Yeah. It's too much, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I I think your plan will work. It's just you're just going to have to be limited on what you spend on the property that you're going to move into in the next state. Yeah, I mean, look, if any if if the the the whole place is your oyster, if you can go anywhere, then I would go to a state that has no state income tax.

I'd go to a place where I could buy something that's more than enough room in the 300 350,000 dollar range. Up to

up to 600, I mean, yeah. Up to six, but I'm saying you don't have to spend six and invest the rest of that. That's going to That's going to do fantastic for you. It's going to double every 7 years. And you're going to be fine. >> Yeah. Yeah, just don't touch that nest egg and let it grow and you continue to do a little work. It won't kill you.

You're not dying. You're 59.

It's not like you're 89.

And so, yeah, um there's a lot of stuff you can do here.

But yeah, I got a feeling though that this very emotional for you to leave that farm and leave California after all these years. And so, the math says to do what you're doing. But then you've got to decide if that's where you want to live in the next place, whether it's Idaho or Nevada or Arizona, wherever you're going. You know, you need to go house shopping over there and you buy an airline ticket and go over there and look at houses.

And you know, start talking about, you know, where where will they accept your teaching credentials?

So that you can teach part-time over there, create some income, and then sit down with a SmartVestor Pro, go to ramsaysolutions.com and click on SmartVestor and sit down with one of them and say, "Gosh, if I put 800,000, a million dollars with you, um what kind of income would that generate for me to live on in my retirement years if I pay cash for a five or 600,000, 400,000 dollar house?

Now, you're going to have some taxes on this probably, too. I don't know what you paid for that property, what your basis is, but um either way, that that's still That all makes a lot of sense. Um

but I also have a sense that you're kind of stuck there emotionally.

And you're going to have to unstuck and what's kind of the process you're going through right now of going, "This is smart. It's going to make me sad though to leave this farm after all these years. It's going to make me sad to leave California after all these years, but their taxes and the cost of living is driving me out. And you know, it's sad, but that's a reality and people do it all the time.

As a matter of fact, people have left California and New York and Chicago at record rates and have navigated to low tax states in the past 8 years like

never before in the history of the US.

Pretty crazy. It's like a reverse gold rush.

You know, in the old days there was all this migration to California in the 1800s, right? The gold the famous gold rush. And uh now it's like a reverse thing.

They're running away from running back to the gold, which is no longer there apparently, but yeah. Or if it is the government takes it. Yeah, so there's that and that's what's happening. Nicole is in Boise. Hi Nicole, how are you?

Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Um I'm trying to figure out if my ask to

my husband is one realistic and two reasonable

right now. Um financially.

Spit it out before we run out of time.

What is it? Um so we I'm trying to say as what we're doing is not working and we need a parent home with our three kids.

Um I just don't know I I after paying for

daycare for the three kids, we my income is $1,500 a month.

Okay. >> I don't know if it's realistic to ask him or if we can even financially afford for me to >> live on his income if you didn't have a daycare bill?

We're $500 a month short. Okay, what do you do for a living? >> income. I do finance right now. I am finishing

my masters. I am done next month with my masters.

But you got to stay home with three kids.

Yeah. Well, the goal is is to work

remote from home teaching at an online school. Well, why would that not make more than $500?

It would. Okay. The problem is is that that won't start until July without a paycheck until August.

We have a $1,000 rainy day fund right now and that's it.

We don't have car payments, but we do have a little debt. And

basically my last day of work is in April.

Oh, you already quit.

No.

They need a full-time person. I cannot do full-time any longer. And so I had to step back because of medical issues with my son.

You already quit. You already quit.

Yeah.

Okay.

And so it's >> So you got to find some way to stop gap the the difference between now and August, right? Yeah. So how many hours extra is he going to work to cover that?

He has offered to work one to two extra

days a week. He don't have a choice.

Somebody's got to feed your family. You all just made a decision. You just quit your job to go be with the kid that's sick. Which I don't blame you. That sounds like the right thing to do.

So you just got to find a stop gap and then you can make it work from there. [music] That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 48. Don’t Quit When the Journey Gets Hard | September 25, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:06:37 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Dr. Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the runaway hit on Ramsey Network, the Dr.

John Deloney Show. He is my co-host today. Cody is in Nebraska. Hi, Cody.

How are you?

>> You know, Dave, I am better than I deserve. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, guys, um I'm going to start off a little bit of a doozy here, so I do apologize, but uh my wife and I have

just recently found out that her parents

are asking my wife's uh sisters that are

under 18 for money for basic bills. Um

we don't really know, you know, I've heard in the past you guys say like don't say anything unless they come to you and ask for help or guidance. Um, we're just kind of stuck because, um, you know, my sister-in-laws are 10, 12, and then 17. Um, so I'm just kind of

we're kind of confused on what to do.

>> How much money do they have?

>> Well, so my so the younger

sister-in-laws, they were, you know, working over the summer. Um, so basically what happened was is, you

know, uh, my sister, my 10-year-old sister-in-law told us that, well, mom and dad kept tight saying that we don't have enough money for groceries this month and blah blah blah. So, I offered them my $400 that I got from dogsitting and they took it for groceries. And then um our or my 17-year-old sister-in-law

came over two weeks ago and said that they had quote unquote borrowed $1,000

from her for for bills for last month to cover. >> Is this true? Are they struggling that bad?

>> I I I would I would say so. Yes. It's

been talked about. You know, a couple months ago, my wife overheard that they are like $10,000 short a month. He my

father-in-law owns his own business and it's been I know it's been struggling for quite a while. >> So, I I want to put things in order.

>> I have you hear us say on the all the time, you can't help family unless they come ask you. >> But before that, I'm always going to protect kids, >> of course. And if you got a 10-year-old that's coming to you saying, "Dad is saying, "I don't have enough money for groceries. I need your dog sitting money." Then I would I personally I would insert myself into that situation.

>> Okay. Okay. And that's what we were thinking because, you know, it's it's really hard for me to have respect for people like that that, you know, they are in a situation where they rely on everybody else to get them out of their problems. They blame everybody else except for themselves. Um, a lot of this is self-caused just based off their their career choices that they've had.

So, it's hard for me to have respect. It's hard for my wife to have respect as well. So, >> how long have you how long have you been worried?

>> Uh, it'll be two years in February.

Okay. Um, yeah, I'm going to take back what I said. I would have your wife call, not you, but >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And um I I think she Yeah, cuz

here's the thing. If the two of you go over there at 2 years into this and insert yourself in this situation, you are changing the trajectory of the next 40 years.

>> Of course. Yep.

>> It's not simply this situation. Um yes,

what you're describing is 100% disgusting. I'm not questioning that at all. Um, and if they were abusing the

children physically, we would just turn them over to children's services, >> right? Yeah, that's not happening. >> It' be that simple. Um, because we're just not going to allow that to happen. They're just abusing them financially.

>> And um, so I I think um, but I don't

think your wife your wife's what, 20some years old.

>> Yeah, she's uh, she's 23.

>> Yeah. If she sits down with her mom and dad and says, "Y'all need to stop this. shall need to become responsible adults.

My guess is there's about a 0% chance that that's going to have any impact >> 110%. >> And if you show up saying, "I don't respect you guys," they're going to tell you to get out of their house. That's not going to help either. >> Yeah, that's a 40 year that's a 40-year long discussion.

>> Um I'm trying to think, in other words, what will work is more what I'm thinking about. >> What What Dave, tell me if I'm wrong.

So, my thought is when I when I say insert myself into that, it would be your wife calling mom and dad and saying, "Can we talk?" Um, and she's got

to be careful because the backlash could come down on a 10-year-old, right?

>> Yeah. >> Um, but we just heard, >> and my Sorry, go.

>> Go ahead.

And and my idea at first was like, you know, my wife, I told her, I was like, "What if you like take your mom out to coffee and be like, you know, mom, we've heard some of this stuff from, you know, my sisters? Like, how bad is it?

>> Is it is it really is that really happening? Are y'all really that bad?" >> Yeah. And is is there is there ways we can help? Are there ways we can support you? Or is there education? They may say, "Absolutely not." And then it's about giving your your niece or your sister-in-law, if you will, a safe place that she always knows she's loved somewhere else, but that's just going to she's going to have eight years of mom and dad borrowing money.

>> Exactly. Exactly. And you know, that's our fear because, you know, they're setting the kids up for just a lifelong >> Yeah. But but dude, you're 25, you're 24. I would stay out of that for right now. >> Yeah. That's not that's not >> Okay. >> That's actually not true either. It's a it's a bad it's a bad on-ramp to life,

but it's not an on-ramp that can't be corrected. A lot of us have bad on-ramps. >> Yeah. >> Um and then we get the opportunity to meet Jesus and change our life. Okay.

So, uh then those kids have got the same thing. They're not being physically abused. So, >> yeah. So, let me refer when I say insert myself, I don't mean you flex and put on a sleeveless shirt and go bang on the door. I I think I think your wife

>> taking mom out for coffee, taking dad out and saying, "Hey, we just happened to hear this.

>> H I'm worried about y'all. How how bad?" >> I'm worried about my sisters. >> Yeah. >> How bad is it?

>> Definitely. >> And then y'all two have a hard conversation about could you help, will you help, and all that cuz the next question is going to be, well, can we have $500? Um and y'all already have that predetermined discussion before she heads into that. >> No, go ahead.

I'll give you the answer to that. No, you're right. because they're saying they're $10,000 short >> a month. >> So, I'm not throwing good money after bad.

into situations where we create a sustainable story.

>> We don't throw money at something $5 at

something that's a $100 problem. That's not you're not creating a sustainable story. Then you've got to fix the problem. You got to get down under it.

And so that's going to involve maybe what I would pay is for them to get with a Ramsey coach. And the Ramsey coach boxes her ears and says, "You have to sell the three cars. You guys, you cannot afford these stupid cars. You can't afford to live in that house.

Oh, maybe you need to get a job because your life your your business is not a business. It loses money. It's called a hobby." And so, no, we're going to have, you know, these types of things are going on under the scene because if they're $10,000 short, the $1,000 from the 17-year-old or the $400 from the 10-year-old doesn't fix it, nor does $500 from you fix it.

But do say, "I'll I'll I'll cheer you on. I'll help you do a budget. I'll connect you with some people and pay for it for you to get some coaching to get yourself out of this. You've struggled with this your whole life.

I've watched you. I'm your daughter. And, you know, I'd love for you to be free from these demons." >> And you and I have talked about this before on the air, but parents don't like hearing money advice. So, if she sits down and says, "Y'all need to start." That's not going to go well.

But that idea of sitting down and saying, "Hey, I'm worried about you. How bad is it?

>> That's a different avenue. >> Yeah, we are on a budget and it's giving us great peace. We have sold some stuff to be able to get in get our our income in line with our outgoing us peace. And

if I could ever help you get with our coach, we'll show you how to do that.

That kind of thing.

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Michelle is in Utah. Hi Michelle, how are you? >> Hi. Days before my wedding, I was laid off as the bread winner.

And a month later, my husband quit his job without asking me. He didn't have a savings or financial plan. To get us through, I made a tight budget with my personal savings and gifts we received from our wedding that he agreed to. But it's been so bad we had to go on welfare.

half, leaving us with almost nothing left. When confronted, he refused to share bank statements or make a plan to address >> why aren't you working behavior?

>> Um, I got laid off. >> I know. Like months ago.

>> Yeah. And I for a job. It's been tough.

>> And you're still not working.

>> Why? Yeah, I it's been really tough.

I've been applying for a lot of different positions over I'd say at this point 250. I'm happy with the amount of

interviews I've been getting. So hopefully I'll find something soon.

>> But you've been not working for 6 months. >> No, not six months. >> I'm sorry. >> Three months. >> Three months. You've been married three whole months.

>> Yeah. >> And all three months have been hell.

Wow. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's been bad. Did you Did

this surprise you or did you notice about him coming in?

>> I He's been He's a medical resident, so he spent essentially his entire life in school. So, I did flag these things

while we were dating um as um what I saw

as problematic behavior, just poor spending habits.

>> He's a medical resident. Does he not get paid for that?

He does. But um a month, like I said, a

month after we got married, he decided he wants to go into a different specialty and >> Oh, he quit. >> Quit his job. >> Mhm. >> You quit medical residency and you don't have your MD.

>> He he does have an MD, but he wants to go into a different field within surgery. So, he wants to start a different residency, but it will take time for him to find that position.

Here's the thing. Your marriage challenges are deeper than spending and deeper than him quitting.

It is you don't respect this guy at all.

And when when life 3 months in or a

couple months into your marriage threw you guys a pretty big curveball, your biggest fears about him were exposed.

And you've you've reached that place.

The Gottmans call it the worst of the four horsemen of the relationship apocalypse. You're at contempt.

I don't like you and I think that I would be handling this different than you in a better way.

And unless you address the your marriage at that level, y'all are just going to keep playing whack-a-ole with symptoms.

You're going to create your own checking account, your own savings plan, your own, your own. He'll do his own, his own. and you you already are roommates.

Y'all will have a divorce inside your own house.

And so it's sitting down and saying,

>> "I don't respect you.

Here's how you've chosen to handle this. You quit your job. You quit this. You're not participating. You've got your own stuff. You don't want to be a part of this thing that we're building. We have to build a new marriage three months in already." And you got to call that. And

then you also sending out applications.

I mean, it sounds like you're hustling, but there's also something about you regaining your own dignity by just going

and working at Burger King on the breakfast shift just so you can feel like you're getting underneath yourself, too, because it's easy to start throwing rocks back and forth at each other, right?

>> Yeah. And I I I do respect him. It's just >> No, you don't. You don't. Um, you don't have >> You wrote You wrote a letter that you read over the air that said, "I don't respect him." >> Yeah. >> You just read it to us.

>> No, I I didn't say that. No.

>> No. All the words. >> The words say that. >> All the words that you wrote in that letter say that. >> Is that in a a really tough moment, he quit his job and took off without you?

>> And he stole our money that we agreed to while I'm trying to make be the one that is the adult and make everything behave.

and this guy's misbehaving here, here, here, and here. I don't blame you for not respecting him. That's not respectable behavior. But I think you you like owning that. Does that make sense? >> Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah.

>> So, what what's what's your question for us beneath these other questions like how can we help you?

>> So, in trying to move forward like you said, I realize that it's the issue is much bigger than let's say just money, right? Mhm. >> But um in trying to address behaviors in

both of us that maybe um led to this happening um I asked him to share his

face bank statements with me um and so

that we can address some of these behaviors together, but he's not being

cooperative and hasn't done so. So I

guess what I'm wondering now is what boundaries and improvements do I need to see and should we see in request to go forward because honestly my I don't

blame different people for having different financial knowledge but I think we should work together to make that to make each of us stronger in that regard and honestly I'm just concerned that even when he is a full-blown surgeon making that salary in several years

We still won't be financially stable because the spending would be in.

>> It doesn't start with the spending. It's the spending anchored into the fact that y'all have a marriage where he has his bank statements and you've got yours.

Y'all should have bank statements that anyone can pull up at any time that y'all talk about together regularly.

>> Yeah, sure. You're 100% right. And that's why we a joint savings and checking. >> If he actually does complete residency, which would surprise me, but let's say he does, you are your fears are 100% grounded. He's going to make half a million dollars and he's going to say, "This is my money, >> right?" >> Yes, you're right. I would be terrified of that if I were you, too.

>> So, what do I what's the next step for her? >> The next step is you being honest about sitting down and saying, "Do you want to be married with me?" This should have been a conversation y'all had before you got married. I'm not I'm not going to marry somebody. I'm not going to connect life with somebody that won't engage

with a joint f a dreaming about a joint future together where we put our money

in the same account because that funds our dreams and our commitment to each other. >> But you're already here.

>> Yeah. And we have transparency and we have a joint >> the t the tactical things that we are doing with every dollar. We are deciding together before we do them. This >> right and that's part of my concern.

>> Separation and deception. Separation and deception can't go forward.

>> I see. We did make a joint budget going into this and did make a joint savings um with our money um and a joint checkings. But in order to

hide the spending habits, he transferred from our joint savings to his personal account. And that's why I can't see the transaction. >> And we call that financial infidelity.

He's cheating on you.

He's deceiving you.

>> Do you have any idea what he spent it on?

>> Yeah. Um, unfortunately,

um, I just generally speaking, he wouldn't show me the statements, but it seems to be personal grooming, haircuts, buying stuff for her hair, fast food, and paying off his personal credit cards. Although going into this, given the severity of the situation, we had agreed to not um making payments on our

credit cards at this time temporarily.

>> Okay. So, he's got a really good haircut and he's debtree. It sounds like he's leaving.

>> Okay. >> It sounds like it sounds like he's setting up another move. >> Yeah. Either that or he absolutely 100%

is not interested in building a life with you. He's interested in continuing

his life next to you. And that's a very

different proposition. That's not marriage. That's roommates with benefits.

Can you imagine if I told Sharon I spent

money on a haircut?

>> I I can imagine the eulogy I would read.

at your service.

I can imagine that.

>> Wow.

>> I'm not saying the guy's bald. I'm just saying.

>> Yeah. There's something scary about here's there's something scary about sitting with a spouse 3 months in or 3 years in, >> 30 years in, creating a plan, shaking hands, we're going to do this together, and then you find out they went off on the side >> and did whatever they wanted to do. >> Do whatever they wanted to do. >> They completely lied.

>> Yeah. They lied to you. So, this is an integrity and trust breakdown, and you can't go forward with deception >> and integrity and trust issues. So, you guys have got to sit down and go uh what the teenagers used to call a define the relationship.

>> Yeah, DTR. Define the relationship. And so, uh is we or isn't we? Right. There we go.

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I promise you it's worth your time. Ethan is with us in Florida. Hi Ethan.

>> Hey Dave and Jo and uh Dr. John Deloney.

I'm It's I'm awesome. Um I'm just happy to talk to you guys. Sorry, I'm nervous.

>> No problems. >> No, you're good. How can we help, sir?

>> Okay. So, uh I'm a young veteran and I joined the military right out of out of high school. I did my four years, got my degree. Um and two years ago at the age of 22, I moved my wife and kid to Florida uh to start a military sponsored internship program at one of their approved companies. Um at the end of that internship, the owner of the company promised me $180,000 salary uh

if I bought his house. Uh, that promise was put into an offer letter and an employment contract. And that offer letter solely qualified me for a no money down VA jumbo loan. So, I proceeded to buy his house for uh $830,000 with an $845,000 mortgage at a

6.75% interest rate and a nearly $7,000

month uh payment. Uh immediately after I

closed, he cut my pay, making that offer letter fraudulent. And over the course of the past two years, my pay's uh progressively been cut. Uh as he ran the company to the ground. Um and as of two weeks ago, I'm completely unemployed.

I'm owed over 150,000 in wages. Um I've

since vacated the house, got a rental house for my wife and kids. I started a new job tomorrow. Um but I'm being forced into a short sale and we'll be about $200,000 underwater. Um so my

question is, what would you do if you were me? and what are my options to minimize the damage to my credit and my future home buying privileges?

>> So, at what point in this process

and how many times in this process did

your heart try to tell your head how stupid this was?

>> Um, I I could tell you a long story of how I was, you know, convinced it was very legit company. I mean, I interviewed today. >> I mean, you never stopped and looked at this and said, "This is a bad idea." >> Oh, no. I mean, the company had like 50.

>> No, I mean, I'm not talking about the company. The company The company doesn't matter. >> The whole story you told me, if the company is completely >> on the up and up, if they're really financially strong, and if they followed through on everything they said, this is still unbelievably stupid.

>> Yeah, I agree. Now looking back, I mean, at the time I was 22 years old and the guy seemed like he was made of money. I thought I was doing him a favor uh because he found out he's having twins and he want his wife he said his wife wanted a bigger house. Um

but yeah, I agreed. Looking back now, I was I was completely scammed. I never should have uh got in this situation.

>> You ever heard the phrase, "If something sounds too good to be true, it is." >> Yeah, that's this is it. >> Yeah, this is it. You're like the walking definition.

>> Yeah, I know. >> Oh my gosh, honey. I'm so sorry. what hell you have been through.

>> Thank you for your service to the country and you deserve to be treated better. I'm so sorry.

>> Um >> yeah, he's a veteran, too, so he he's taken advantage of veterans and >> that's not unusual, as you know.

>> Um >> yeah, >> there's veterans outside the gate of every single base for the next two miles. Just as soon as you leave the gate on each side of the road for the next two miles is stupid.

Like every stupid human trick is right outside the gate of every military base and most of them are run by veterans screwing over current active duty people. So it's not unusual at all. It's I wish I could say it was different but we know too much about your world. All right. So >> yeah. >> Why did you move out?

>> Um because so the the mortgage is going to go overdue starting October 1st.

Yeah. So >> um and I know my credit's going to get ruined. I won't be able to Why did you move out?

>> So I could start the short sale process or whatever as soon as possible. >> You can start short sale process while you're living in it.

>> Yeah, that's true. I don't know. I just wanted to get it over with and just move on with my life as soon as possible, I guess. >> Okay. It's interesting. All right. So, a

short sale is where the house brings

less than the mortgage. And if it is a short sale, remember this phrase because you're going to have trouble getting it with your Veterans Administration. And it's the only way you want to do it.

Don't do it if you don't get this phrase. And I doubt you're going to get it, but you need to get this phrase without recourse.

>> Okay. So, a short sale is the lender looks at the situation and says, "My borrower is a 22y old that doesn't make enough money to pay this bill, and it'll never happen in this century that we're going to get our money. The only money we're going to get is out of this house, and so we're going to accept a $600,000, $800,000 offer, $700,000 offer on this

house, and whatever of the mortgage doesn't get paid, we are going to forgive it without resource." That's a without recourse. That's a short sale.

The Veterans Administration seldom does a short sale without recourse, but if they have recourse, they're going to sue you for the difference. And it's no better than a foreclosure.

>> Who will sue me for the difference? The VA. >> The veterans. Yeah, the VA. And believe me, they will sue you.

>> Cuz what the the uh realtors have told me is that the the VA, they just eat the difference on the short sale. And >> if you do it without recourse, they eat the difference. But I let me tell you, I got to tell you, nine out of 10 times they don't. Now, the FHA will eat the difference. Uh, if you talk Fanny May, a conventional loan into doing a loan, doing a short sale, it's typically without recourse. But the VA, oddly

enough, ironically enough, which is designed to help veterans, is going to screw you. They're going to hammer you.

So, I'm afraid for you right now. Um, but it's the only it's the only route you've got. So, take the realtor at their word. But do not sign this unless

it says without recourse. I do not want

them chasing you for the difference. If they're going to chase you for the difference, make them foreclose.

>> Okay. >> Do not do a deal with them and then them screw you. You've been screwed enough by people you've done deals with.

>> So that's true. >> Yeah. So whatever the whatever this buyer offers, the VA takes that amount

and forgives the rest. Say it with me.

Without recourse.

>> You got that phrase. >> Without recourse. >> Yeah. I do not want them coming after you for the difference. And the paperwork needs to say that and you need to freaking read the paperwork.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz the VA is supposed to be there for

veterans and quite honestly they're not.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Otherwise, they would have never made this loan.

>> Yeah. I mean, I I I I reached out to them. They did an audit into the origination of the loan and they said it's legit that uh the company who's named after the owner has the same last name that I bought his house with an offer letter that he signed to work at his company. That didn't raise any red flags apparently.

>> No, that's that's why I took it.

>> No, that's why that's why we knew it was a scam.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And you shouldn't have taken it.

>> And I would recommend an 22-year-old buying his first house, not buying an $860,000 home >> based on a bogus salary amount that you can't get anywhere else in the marketplace. The whole thing was a scam from day one. It was never going to happen from day one. >> Yeah. I mean, I could elaborate to Dr.

John about how this guy's like the textbook definition of a narcissist. And >> you know, he had a whole company of a bunch of people convinced until now.

>> Sure. >> That everything was legit. None of it was legit. It was all a lie. >> Well, you know, Ethan, what what I what I want to do though, if I'm in your shoes, is not define him.

>> I want to ask myself, what was I being that allowed me to step into the bear trap?

Yeah. >> Yeah. He we get obviously this guy's a scumball. Okay. But you obviously walked

right past several warning flags and you

need to learn from those so you never walk past them again. Cuz I did the same thing when I was your age and I went broke and that's what I'm trying to keep you from doing. I don't want you to get there. So if you're going to do something stupid, at least learn from it. And this whole thing was stupid. The

whole thing is a nightmarish mess. I'm so sorry, honey. Yeah. without recourse.

That's your phrase for the day, my man.

[Music]

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[Music]

Are you ready? Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and take the quick free quiz. We'll send you a personalized plan. Kirk is in Colorado.

Oh, hey Kirk. What's up?

>> Hey. So, I got a real estate question for you. >> Okay. >> We have a property that well, we there's

an open property next to us that came up for sale and I'm trying to figure out if it's a good idea, maybe a good investment to buy it.

>> You have the cash? >> So, we do.

>> Okay. How much is it?

>> Uh, so they're asking 40,000 >> for what? What is it?

>> Uh, so it's an empty lot. It's 1.3

acres. We live in a rural area, so

everyone's got about 1.2 acres that everyone lives on. Uh we enjoy having open lots on either side of us. So buying this would a prevent

someone from moving in and building next to us.

And b I had the idea of incorporating it

into my lot. So, at that point, if we

ever sell in like 10 years and move, we

would be selling 2.5 acres versus 1.2 acres. >> Okay. All right. Um, and you're out of

debt except your home.

>> Uh, no, we are 100% out of debt. We own our home. >> Okay. And you have the cash. All right.

>> Uh, I I would buy it. I have done that

quite often. Um, I bought 22 acres next

door to this building that I'm sitting in, commercial property. Um, I bought vacant lots adjacent to every property or several properties that I own when they come available uh for buffers, as

you said, privacy, uh, the enjoyment of a little extra space and sometimes just to keep contiguous things going. What I would not do is combine the properties.

You can combine them when you sell them simply by selling them both.

Okay. Uh, would it be cheaper as

property taxes is one versus having two different lots? >> Um, might be a tiny bit, but $40,000 worth of property taxes is not much in South Dakota. >> Okay. >> It's not We're talking about a biscuit.

>> So, um, the uh the thing So, I sold a a

big I built this big huge house on a hill u back in the uh early 2000s and I

sold it in 21. I had purchased two five

acre tracks that were were contiguous to it that were big lots in the area. So I and and had a little green space around it, too. So I was basically sitting on about 20 acres. All right.

>> Nice. >> And but I did not combine the lots. When I sold it, the buyer of the big house

didn't want the other lots. Didn't want

to spend that much. And so what ended up happening was I sold the house itself at a premium and then I ended up selling both the lots at a premium. They built next door to him as his choice because

he didn't want them. But I ended up with more money that way. Oh, >> okay. That makes sense. >> Yeah. So, but if if he wanted them all, I offered him everything in one package and he didn't want it, right? The buyer, which is fine. It's okay. It's his it's his place. He didn't have to do it. He was not as concerned about buffer as as I was, right? So, um I liked having 20 acres around me a lot. So, um, and I

kind of missed that, but yeah, but yeah, that's where we are. So, um, yeah, but that but keep it separate. But I, yes, I would buy and I don't know that the investment will work out to be a big deal for you. If if the 40 turns into 80 over a decade, you did good. I'd be shocked if it did that. Uh, but more than anything, it's peace of mind and control of the environment around you.

And you've deserve that. You've you've done a good enough job with your money to buy that. >> I would I bought that yesterday. Yeah.

No question about that. >> Yeah. >> And God bless any place in the country where you can get an acre and 1.2 for $40,000, man. I would buy that on principle, I think. >> Yeah. There's people Yeah.

>> Jeez. >> Wow. Scott's with us in Ohio. Hey,

Scott. How are you?

>> Doing good. How about yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I am working through a little bit of a financial situation where I'm trying to understand if I should continue to be laser focused on my debt payoff or start uh planning for my future at 42 years old. Um, so I am a

single income earnner household with no kids. I make about 150,000 a year. And

at the end of last year, I started to realize that just my numbers weren't adding up for my income. I was constantly behind the ball trying to move money around to pay all my bills and just came to the realization that I was both stubborn and financially illiterate. Um, >> dude.

>> Wow, that's brutal. >> Welcome to the meeting. I'm John and this is Dave.

>> We've been there too, brother.

>> Yeah. So, I built a really strict budget. Um, since January 1st, I've paid off 37,000 in debt.

>> Wow. Um, I'm down to one credit card, which was I had 27,000 in credit cards in January. I'm down to about 9,200 on a credit card. It is now at 0% interest and paying about 1,200 a month on it.

>> Okay. >> Um, then I have a home loan for my roof,

a car, student loans, and finally my

mortgage. And >> not counting the mortgage, what's the rest of it?

>> Um, let's see here. About 53,000.

And you've already paid off 37 since January.

>> Yeah. So, I should have that paid off in about 16 months and then I'm left with about 196,000 for the the uh mortgage.

>> Amazing. Well done, sir. >> Outstanding, dude.

>> Thank you. Um, and then I have about 71,000 in my 401k. Nothing in Roth,

nothing in HSA yet. >> And you're not adding anything to the 401k currently?

>> Uh, no, I am because of where I work. I get 6%. >> Oh, you didn't you didn't understand the program? And the program is you stop the 401k.

>> Okay. >> Oh, now we're going to get out of debt in 12 months. This is so cool.

>> Um, I have about 12K in reserves. I have

a Century home. >> Wait a minute. Now we're going to pay down that credit card today.

>> Today. You're going to be gone today.

>> Look at this. Now we're out of debt in 10 months. This is so cool.

>> Okay, look. Listen. You have created a

either save myself now and not help

myself later or help myself later and

take longer on this. And what I want to tell you is every dollar you pay off right now is helping future you.

>> Yes. >> Your shortest distance between where you are and financial security and wealth is not screwing around with your match and it's not hoarding that $12,000. It's leaning in with everything the way we taught you and you're not doing it. But you need to go do it the shortest distance between where you are right now and that is 100% debt freedom. Because

when you don't have a stinking payment in the world, you rebuild that emergency fund very quickly. Then you start putting 15% of your income away and you're young and you make 150,000 later.

You're going to make 250,000 10 years from now and you're still putting 15% away. You're going to have $10 million if you do what I tell you to do instead of doing it your way.

>> Well, that's what my goal was. this 6 to 10 million for being realistic in today's climate with inflation and everything. I feel anybody in their 40s is going to need 5 to 10 million to have a comfortable life. >> Yeah.

>> 60 is even better. But, you know, it's okay. It's, you know, you're going to be okay. You'll be okay with a million, but you'll be better off with six and you'll be better off with 60.

So, but the point is quit trying to screw around with this system that works. Dude, >> you you really have made good progress, remarkably, without doing what we taught you to do. >> Here's the deal.

You just passed the halfway mark. I mean you I mean not dollar-wise, but you're running and you're kind of getting tired of running. And when you get tired of running, you start giving yourself reasons why you can go ahead and just quit. You've already done the training. You've proven it to yourself. What if we just went and got a burger? Hear me and Dave say, "Finish this race, man." >> Okay, >> you're tired. You don't like sending 1,200 bucks every penny away. We get it.

You're dude, you are cooking on this thing. >> What do you owe on the car?

>> Um 16,000.

>> Okay. Not much. All right. Good.

>> And then my house is worth about I think it was 345 and >> that's that's going to be paid off in like seven years the way you're going.

So you're doing so good. Yeah.

Seriously, if you will take 10 months of doing it my way and have almost nothing in savings down to $1,000, baby step one, and stop your 401k for a lousy 10 months, the the ground you'll make up as a result of that because of this increased focused intensity is going to get you out of debt so fast mathematically and psychologically and spiritually. Um, because the feedback loops are going to kick in and you're going to go, I love this. I'm paying off more and more and more, more and more.

And you're going to get out. It's that's what happens in the brain. And so that's kind of how it sounds. >> My my brain isn't quite so old witchcrafty, but I get it. >> No, that's a that's like a Yeah, >> like a wizard, >> whatever. You're the bad guy. Evil laugh, right? >> Yeah. There you go. >> Yeah. It's like >> There we go.

>> You can do this, man. But quit screwing around with it. Get it done.

[Music]

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Dr.

John Deloney, number one bestselling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney show massive hit on Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

Lynn is in New York. Hi Lynn. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um I wanted to see if I should take out

a $10,000 loan to help my mom fix her

kitchen. Um there's some emotional reasons why I would and why I wouldn't.

And ultimately, I'm trying to see if the financial the financials make sense to help me make the decision.

>> So, you don't have $10,000 to give your

mom.

>> I don't. No. >> Okay.

And your mom's broke?

>> She Yeah, she has a pension. She has social security. She's retired. So, she's on a fixed income.

>> How How old is your mom?

>> She's almost 80.

>> And how's her health?

She's actually quite spry for her age.

>> Good. Okay. And what's wrong with her kitchen?

>> Um, she tends to hire uh do a lot of DIY

and like hire handymen who aren't quite handy. And so the last few years

>> uh to to renovate the home in general.

>> Oh, I see. So >> Okay. >> Yeah. And so, um, you know, she's half

funded projects over the years and it's left the kitchen, you know, with only a subfloor, no cabinets, no countertops.

Um, it's just kind of in a state of disrepair. And she is older even though

her health um is pretty great. I worry

about, you know, her age and food safety, physical safety in that space.

>> Wow. really bad decisions.

>> Yeah. >> Um Okay, man. I just appreciate how much you love your mom. That's sweet of you

and uh that you want to take care of her and you don't want her living in a house that's um probably wouldn't pass codes right now. Um

so that's nice of you. Um you do know

you called the show where we'd never tell anybody to borrow money, right? You know you called that show. I I I did and

I'm you know I'm trying to the the other part is you know I've worked really hard over the last few years um >> to get out of debt and I'm not going to tell you to spend $10,000 on an 80-year-old's kitchen.

>> The math the math doesn't work.

>> Um I mean if you had a million dollar laying in your account and you want to spend $10,000 on an 80-year-old's kitchen, that's fine. But I wouldn't do that. >> Um >> okay. >> And and I certainly wouldn't borrow the money to do it under any circumstances.

and I but I do applaud your heart. Now, let's try to fix the problem though.

>> Okay. >> A different way. So, is your mom um in a

good church?

>> Um she I would say she does go to a

church. Um >> good. >> But the church is the place where she has been recommended these people who have like fixed her home. But also, >> that's even better. That's even better.

>> So, here's what I want you to do. I want you to take some pictures of the mess that is her kitchen and I want you to go have a lunch meeting with her pastor

and say some of the jack legs that go to your church have done this and so I'm going to ask since we have an elderly widow over here that you organize a work group of some young men who actually know how to swing a hammer and come over and put her some cabinets in and put a floor down.

I want you to take care of an elderly widow because she's an elderly widow and she's a member of your church. And I really want you to do it because some of the jack legs that go to your church are the ones that cause the problem in the first place.

>> And I got a feeling you can shame this pastor into getting some work done.

>> Okay. >> Nothing feels better than shaming a pastor.

>> I'm messing with you. I'm being harsh. But you see what I'm saying? >> But can I tell you this is some of the best advice I've heard you give, Dave. I love this idea cuz you know why it is?

It's the bluff call. Are y'all going to be who you're supposed to be?

>> You're going to take care of widows and orphans. >> Here you go.

>> Now, you got you got quiet on us, Lynn.

Why don't you like that plan? >> I mean, the handbook says that's real religion. >> Widows and orphans. >> Yeah, >> that's what the handbook says.

>> My mom um she doesn't like accepting help. She's not always the most uh >> But she was going to take a $10,000 loan from you to do a kitchen. That's called help. >> She didn't ask me necessarily for the >> one. I know. But you were you had a plan where she was going to do that. So, let's have a plan where her church supports her cuz her church's jack legs are the ones that mess this up.

>> And by the way, this is going to be good practice because over the next 10 years, she's going to need more and more support and care from you and others

>> and others. And you're going to have to get out of the habit of deal debt fixes anything.

>> It makes it worse. >> Yeah. because I don't want to give you a negative scenario, but I really don't want you paying a loan off after your

mom passes away and you're paying payments on a kitchen that she no longer uses.

That would be really really negative.

>> Can you imagine writing that check every month?

>> Yeah. And it wouldn't be um it wouldn't be an investment in that sense that I >> No, it wouldn't. Yeah.

>> No, it's not. It's just consumption and it just you it's just your sweetheart wanting to help your sweet mom and I I

think both of you are sweet ladies and I I I'm don't want her to get messed over anymore and I don't want you to mess yourself over trying to be sweet and so let's not do this. Let's not step up in this trap. I'm real serious. If I if it was you, if I was you, I'd go have a and I've got the money to write the check, but I I in this case, I think this church has an opportunity to serve.

win-win win-winwin wins where everybody wins and a widow gets an elderly widow

gets her kitchen put back together and the church gets an opportunity to go help somebody out. That's awesome. And I don't know how we got here, but seriously, if a recommendation came from inside of her congregation and they left an elderly widow in this situation, the pastor really has an opportunity to work with that person on their character.

>> Right. >> Absolutely. >> U because you just don't want to be on this list of you don't want to be on the list of people messes with kids, widows, and orphans. It's there's several things in the scriptures that are really don't don't you don't want to be on that list.

Uh you want to be on the list of the people that help those people. That's the list you want to be. That's the the good it's the naughty list and the good list. I mean, that's this is it. It's not Santa Claus, but it's God. And so, you know, you know, it's woo woo.

Serious stuff.

>> That's a You know what I That's a great idea. I hope that happens more and more.

>> Well, you have so many opportunities to do things that way. And um and honestly,

I work with so many churches. I mean, we've worked with had 50,000 churches have taught 10 million financial peace

congregants um over the last 25 years.

And I know a bazillion churches that

have the funds and have the systems to take care of the

single mom, the widow, the orphan, and they don't always know a way to connect to one. >> Yeah. >> And so just giving them the opportunity, letting them, hey, here's one. And they go, thank you. >> Yeah. and they're ready to go do it.

It's pretty incredible that they're just standing there ready to go. They they're willing, ready, and able. They just don't have the connection and because no one wants to raise their hand and say, "Help me." >> And I know a number of young men who are asking, "Hey, where?" There's no places to serve. Like, I can go to a local soup kitchen or something, but I got to get in line and there's other man, if you could go to church, >> there's a 25-year-old Bible study group of men at that church, >> show up on a weekend project, they can put that whole kitchen back together.

>> Be amazing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then they don't walk a little bit taller.

>> Everybody wins, boys and girls. This is how this works.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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[Music]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. If your private

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Ava in Ohio. Ava writes, "My

significant other and I have been together for 15 years and we have two kids together. We're both 30 years old.

He's currently scraping by being self-employed, making roughly $65,000 annually, but pays taxes of about 6,000

bucks and his reimbured expenses are included in that 65k, making his true income about $26,000 a year. We do not

have joint finances. I pay for everything for us from the house, utilities, groceries, and even his health insurance. I make 163,000

annually. He does have some great skills to get a decent job, but chooses not to.

How do I motivate him to get a better job and ask him to start paying for part of our family expenses?

>> I don't think you can. In 15 years, you hadn't motivated him to get married.

I don't know how you're going to motivate him to get a job.

Uh, and by the way, 30 years old, we've

been together 15 years. This started when you were 15. It's >> high school, man. Yeah, it's Dustin's Creek. I don't I don't want to wait.

This is good, man. I like I like teenage romances.

But, uh, he's got a pretty good setup here. His wife is rich. He can kind of do what he wants. >> You have three kids.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. just one of them is

humongous and old.

I I think the path here is to sit down and be honest about you spent half your life together and to sit down and say um

we've been co-managing our lives. We've been running in parallel and I want to make um I want to start making a marriage. I want to make a life together. Not where I have my money, you've got your money, I pay all the bills.

you um just kind of do what you want when you want to do it. But what do we want our life to look like? How do we want to feel when we come home every day? What dreams do we have?

And he's probably going to say, "I'm good." And then pop the top on a cold Budweiser and go on about his day. But that's where that conversation starts.

and D. >> Yeah. I I but I I also um

Okay. Th this is how the the problem is

not just that we're here. It's how we got here.

Okay. There was never any request for

this man to grow up. This is an adolescent. >> Exactly. And so he didn't have to um get

married to have kids and to start a life with this woman. He can just run. He doesn't have to develop a career. He can go over here and do something. I'm going to follow my passion. Oh, brother, you're killing me here. And um you know,

we're broke, but I'm real passionate about it. No, the um No, it doesn't work. So the problem is you've got to undo at least 10 years worth of

uh me mixed messages that you've been sending with your behaviors with what you've allowed. >> And this is not about >> you get what you tolerate.

>> Exactly. But this is not about we can't make ends meet. This is about we've got

money. She makes 163k and he makes 26.

So they're making >> they make 200 grand a year, >> right? They're fine. The deal is I don't respect this guy that I've been with for half my life. >> Yeah. >> And you got to have that conversation.

Are we going to do life together or not?

And here's what that looks like.

And let me ask you this. It it occurs to me and I'm stepping over into your field of expertise, your world, but it feels like to me, not only does she not respect him, she knows she allowed all this. >> Exactly. >> And so she's starting to be mad at herself.

Almost all of this starts with I'm angry at myself and I'm gonna I put it out into the world. >> Yeah. >> And so yeah, if she wants to sit and that's why it's so important when you sit down and have these conversations to use I statements. I've allowed this.

have gone out and created a world where where >> we're not married. We have two kids.

>> You don't have to do anything. >> You don't work much.

>> I'm saying I want to be connected and

build something together. And that's where this is a scary thing. You kind of got to do one or the other in this situation. Ava has to have an or what statement. Here's what I want to have in

my life or I'm gonna go ahead and

move like solidify the separateness that is our world already. Or I'm not leaving this guy. He's a part of my life. I'm going to make peace with it and I'm going to go on about my life. Most people get stuck in between the or I don't want to make a declarative or what statement, but I just want to complain about it and be frustrated about it all the time. So, either make peace with it.

You make a great salary. We're moving on. You got a third kid. He's maybe he's fun and whatever. Or I'm going to draw a line in the sand and say, "As for me and my house, I I want more than this. I deserve more than this. I want to build something together. >> I don't want to be a single mom anymore." >> That's right. You got to grow up. I need

a man in my house.

Not a third kid.

And more importantly, here's what that looks like. Here's the path for that.

So, I tactical uh steps. If you're in

that situation, I'm going to say if you

want to go forward, it's going to look like this. You're going to get a career development plan and execute on it.

We're going to get married. And in order to work our way through all that, we're going to sit down and see a counselor.

>> Absolutely. >> And and and if you don't want to do those three things, you are electing for us not to be together anymore because I don't want to be a single mom and pretend like I'm not anymore. Since behavior is a language, you're telling me very clearly, I don't want to be a part of your life. Yeah. Yeah. And here

here's the problem. Okay. The data now

tells us, and John and I have talked about this, we talked about it on our tour quite a bit. It came up a lot. the um there there's tons of actual research

multiple different research projects that are airtight research looking at actual um labor department data, Census

Bureau data that says a single man

35 years old, it has 17th of the net worth of a

married man that's 35 years old.

A single woman that's 35 years old has

onetenth of the net worth of a married

woman that is 35 years old. Married men

live 7 to 10 years longer and have a 20%

higher probability of surviving cancer than single men.

Wow. the so your net worth and your

incomes all the data tells us your net worth, your incomes, your health, uh your uh

relational satisfaction is in multiples of 10

greater for married couples than couples that shack up.

And yet more than half the couples listening to this right now are shacked up instead of married. And you think you haven't done any damage, but you have. you you've lost what we call what the data calls a marriage advantage

>> versus the shack up advantage. There is no data, zero data that says you

outperform physically, relationally, and financially by shacking up the marriage, the married couple. Zero times do you

outperform?

Zero. And yet everybody does it. But I I

I think what's important is the financial metrics, the health metrics, those are lights on the dashboard of a

person who has a life where they exhale, where they can anchor in and go work hard, right? You can work harder when you know you've got a you've got a ride or die next to you. >> Um when you're in the hospital, you've got a reason to get up and get out. Like when you're you've got all like those things, I would never tell somebody go get married so you have more money.

I would say, hey, go build a an amazing life with somebody. It's going to be hard. It's going to be a challenge. Go do that.

And I I would tell you that the dashboard is right. Um I think you're exactly right.

The financial problems are never the problem. They're the symptom. >> So financial limitations are never the problem. They're the symptom. Financial uh success >> is never the real success. It's the symptom. It's the symptom. And so what we're telling you is is that it turns out that the best way and like for

instance when we interviewed the 10,167 millionaires we asked them you know what percentage of you what did you or how what's your relationship with your spouse have to do with your wealth. 89%

said a willing, able, and enthusiastic

partner is what my spouse was. When you

interview the general public that's broke, you ask what percentage is your spouse? You know, what percentage of you is your spouse a willing, able, and enthusiastic partner?

40%, not 89. So there's a causal effect

here. Cause and effect here. You know, it's a causal statistical analysis.

That's what teammate. >> It's the dashboard light. That's exactly what it is.

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Caitlyn's in Missouri. Hi, Caitlyn. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave and John. I'm calling to find out if my husband and I can financially afford for me to stay home with my baby.

>> Can you live on his income?

>> I I think so. My husband's takehome is about 6,000. My take-home is about 4,000.

Uh we have no debt, no mortgage. Our house is worth $500,000. We have about $250,000 in four mutual funds that you

recommend. >> How much is in How much is your house payment?

>> Oh, no mortgage. >> Oh, wow. Wow. >> House is worth 500,000. >> Well, you ought to be able to live on six grand, can't you?

>> Yeah. Uh, I think our overage would be about 2,000. My husband's currently only putting 5,000 toward retirement, so he needs to up that to 15%. But I think it's hard. I like my job, but I want to stay home with my baby, but it's a little hard. It's a little scary to quit. Um, >> well, how is you working now? You're working now. >> Yes. >> You're back to work after the last baby.

Uh, this is my first baby and I'm back to work after the 12 weeks of leave.

>> Okay. And Yeah, that's hard. That's a real hard thing. Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, well, why don't you live on um your husband's income and bank your income for a couple months?

>> Okay. >> Just to prove to yourselves you can do it. >> Mhm.

No, that's a good idea.

>> I think you can. The numbers you gave me sound right. >> Yeah. It is gonna it's going to require a life change though.

And the life change is >> we're not going to be able to be as willy-nilly as we were because you have no payments. You got no mortgage. When you're bringing home 10,000 bucks a month, you can kind of do whatever you want. >> Yeah.

>> And by reducing your income 40%, you're going to have to make some changes like we're going to have to eat at home and we can't take that vacation. And that's just going to be the tradeoff to being a stay at home mom.

I'm 29. He's 27. I who knows how many years I'd be off. Maybe three to five and then go back. It's just scary, I think, to to quit your job and take the leap of faith. >> And I it and you have to be rec ready for a couple of things. Thing number one, you are now a part of the woman

industrial guilt complex or the mother industrial guilt complex.

People will be after you for staying at home. People will be after you for not going back to work. people are going to want to do stuff and you're going to have to say no. Um, your husband's going to want a new thing and he's going to have to say no because there's just going to be this always this sense that I'm not enough or I'm doing the wrong thing. Knowing that on the front end,

you can you can prepare for it.

>> Might not even be a sense. It might be a direct message from some loser on the outside, >> right?

>> And so, you just got to go, h your opinion doesn't count. You don't really get a vote. We're living on six grand and I'm here with the baby. And I'm really really happy with that idea. I also understand I'm no longer a professional woman and that does bother me a little bit. But I made a choice between that, put that on the scale, I put a baby on the other side of the scale, the baby won.

>> But that doesn't make you go you suddenly not want to have a career >> or not be intellectually stimulated by hitting and setting goals, >> right?

>> Yeah. >> And so putting some things in place like I'm going to have two or three women that I get together with every week and we're going to have a book study. We're going to talk about politics or deep stuff or projects or I'm going to backfill some of those intellectual needs, the stimulation needs, the adult conversation needs. I'm going to make sure that's still a part of my life because it's meaningful to me and it makes me who I am.

>> Yeah. I think I get scared that I won't be able to find a job when I try to back enter back. You will. Oh, yeah. No troubles at all.

>> Okay. >> What's your what's your field?

>> I work in marketing. >> Okay. And I have an MBA.

>> Okay. But >> I've only been >> the stuff you learned in the MBA was uh generic and strategic. It was not tactical marketing skills you use today.

>> True. >> Yeah. Tactical marketing skills were acquired by being in the marketplace and moving around. You will lose those because the way we do marketing today is vastly different than it was 18 months ago and way different than it was 10

years ago.

And so if you stay out of the market five years, you know, what is the what does AI do to the marketing process?

It's going to change it >> and you're going to be behind on that.

But does that mean you can't get a job?

No. You still have the basic marketing skill set and then you'll have to just learn some of the tactical things to stay up to date. The other thing you could do is um after the baby is a year

old or so um you could start doing some

freelance stuff on the side just to keep your skills sharp just for fun. Not because you have to um but because it keeps your keeps your um toe in the water and we know what the temperature is. >> Mhm.

That might be fun because there's a lot of small businesses could use somebody with an MBA uh with marketing skills to

help them move some of their marketing along and they don't have this they don't have the financial bandwidth with somebody on full-time like that.

>> That's what I would do. >> That's a good idea. >> Which is easy for me to say on this side having never had to make that that trade, right? But finding one or two people who have a small business and you can help or you can take a little bit of money and but you keep your doing it less for the money but more for the skills.

But here's the thing. You guys make good money, you and your husband, and he makes good money, and you've already done a great job. You got a paid for house. You got money saved.

You're going to be in great financial condition.

with Sharon Ramsay was she never went back.

She transferred from full-time mom to full-time grandmom to full-time Bible study leader and book club leader and

um, generally um, all these things. I mean, she's got her thing and and none of it is earning an income, quote unquote, um, other than allowing me to, which earns her a great income. But, uh, you know, all that stuff. So, you know, that it doesn't have to be that you do this in order to be a real person.

>> So, just whatever you want to do, that's the point. And whatever keep whatever whatever floats your boat, right? Whatever whatever makes you happy and takes you there. So, I I would do all of those things. But yeah, I think coming home if if you see you'll worry about the financial thing less if you just take two months and say we're going to bank my check and live on yours, make our every dollar budget with your check, your take-home pay. And by the way, he does have to get that back up to 15%.

You got to be putting 15% of your income away at least. And and you don't have a

payment in the world. There's no reason you can't do that except that you want to spend it on other stuff. So that you really do need to be doing that. But 15% of 6,000 is not that bad. It's not not it's 9 900 bucks a month. It's very doable.

Very doable. And that's going to take you to a lot of wonderful places that you're going to want to go to. And for everybody listening, I think this is an important moment.

This couple has put in the work up until

now. And now they can honestly sit across the table and do whatever they want. And it's not a matter of I have

this deep sense that I want to stay at home, but I can't because I've got all this past, all this old things that I've already bought, but I haven't yet paid for dragging behind me. And so, they put the work in, and here they are, and now they can do whatever they want. It doesn't mean it's going to come without a sacrifice, without frustrations, but they can do whatever they want because they put the time in. So, um, and I love that they're in this they have this opportunity.

Yeah, I I do think that

I'm pot and I don't think I'm sure uh that ladies in our society today

uh get a lot of messages from a lot of people that don't have a right to put a vote in on whether they should work or not. And so if you're working and well,

you're a bad mom. If you're a full-time mom, stay-at-home mom, well, you you're you know, you've abandoned you're you've not become your best version of you. you didn't go be a professional woman and do all this stuff and and they get these guilt messages from both sides and um

and like you said it's the ind industrial female guilt machine right and what I hear a lot on my show is

people make the sacrifice women make the sacrifice they stay at home and suddenly they find themselves in a place that they've never experienced which is a deep loneliness as they've got no other adults in their life and they either turn to scrolling >> as a way to connect with the outside world and that's where these messages get dumped in there. >> Oh god. >> Or their spouse, their husband comes home and it becomes like a the the trash can. They they he dumps all the bad stuff that happened his day.

She dumps all the bad stuff and that's a way to split your marriage. And so knowing, hey, I'm going to be all by myself and so I'm going to not just go home and and lock myself in a box for the next three to five years, but I'm going to create community intentionally that I might have got just at the water cooler at the office. I'm going to be intentional about it. And man, then there's gonna have a whole bunch of people speaking into your life that are real people that actually care about you.

>> Yeah. And here's the trick. Decide what you're going to do and you and your husband, you're the ones who really get a vote. What everybody else thinks doesn't really matter.

[Music]

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Dr. John Deloney, number one person, number one bestselling author personality. You're the number one person. That's it. >> I'll take it. >> Yeah. You're all of that. and uh number one show on the Ramsey networks. Not really, but a big show on the Ramsey networks. He's number one everywhere in his mind. So check it all out. He's here to help you me this hour since my mouth is apparently not working. Open phones at 88 8255225.

Thomas is in South Dakota. Help us Thomas. What's up?

>> Hey Dave. Hey John. What's going on? I'm calling today because uh I'm 18 years active duty uh military.

>> Thank you. >> Um unfortunately Thank you. Uh, unfortunately, a couple years ago, life happened. Um, and I landed up getting divorced. Um, with that, before we got

divorced, my ex-wife and I, we were completely debtree and, uh, I was able to contribute 60% of my income towards investments. >> Holy. >> Um, 40% was going to my TSP and another 20% was going to my kids college funds.

>> Wow.

>> Um, but now that I'm divorced, uh, I've been divorced now for two years. Um, I have found myself accumulating a little bit of debt. I'm back at $57,000 worth of debt. >> What in the world? What did you buy in two years?

>> Uh, so I bought a vehicle uh your baby steps. >> What kind of truck is it? >> Um, it's it's a Ford Raptor.

>> Well, I think we found the problem, Thomas.

>> It's definitely part of it. Uh, >> no. It's the whole >> It's all of it. Taylor Swift.

>> Get your divorce raptor truck. We know what it is, right? >> It's called I'm the problem. It's me.

>> So, my uh I'm calling because I can pay

this debt off pretty quickly. About $78,000 a year.

>> You make 78 a year.

>> And you owe what on the Raptor?

>> I owe 57.

>> Yeah. Uh, well, I owe 37 on the Raptor and 18,000 in um credit card debt that I used to purchase furniture and stuff for the house that I got divorced.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Um, I still contribute the 60% of my income towards my TSP.

>> Um, you can't afford to do that broke.

>> Um, so I was thinking, so my my philosophy here and what I was looking for is some guidance. Uh, I was thinking about cutting off my TSP. Um,

however, in the divorce, uh, my ex-wife

decided to go ahead, hey, your whole military pension is yours. I just want half the TSP. Um, I've still been

contributing because in my head, I was like, I'd rather make a little bit more money on the back end versus stop contributing altogether and out of spite just not contribute because I don't want her to get Wait, >> when does she get half? Now.

>> Uh, uh, 67.

What? Oh, no. I meant that's that's not possible.

>> Is this divorce isn't final, is it?

>> Um, it is. Yes, sir. So, when we went to court, there was I had several different uh options that I could do. Um, >> and you agreed to give her half of your TSP at age 67.

>> Yes. >> Not h not what half of it becomes by then, but whatever's in there at H. That's not right. Something's wrong.

>> That's based off of what the lawyers were saying and stuff. They said that was the better of the deal.

>> Apparently, these lawyers didn't take math class.

That's a horrible deal. Um, all right.

So, you need to get clarification because I don't think you understand what really happened or you got the worst deal in the history of divorces.

>> I've never heard of this deal. This is what you got. It is normal for you to transfer half of your TSP to her. Now,

that is a normal process in a divorce.

And she can roll that into an IRA and have no taxes.

It is very strange for her to get anything at age 67.

Like, I've never heard of this in 35 years of doing what I do. That's strange. What they wanted to do was she would get half of my military pension on top of half of the TSP.

>> Yeah, that would be normal.

>> But half the TSP today, not at 67.

>> Well, now what the deal that they had worked out was she doesn't get any of the military pension. She only gets the

TSP.

>> Okay. Now or at 67?

>> At 67 when it matures.

>> Okay. Then it should be half. What? half

like you're half of your TS. How much is in your TSP today?

>> Uh 166.

>> Okay. So half would be 80 84 thou

83,000. Okay. Right.

>> Yes. >> Today. So whatever 83,000 grows to

at age 67, she should get. But she

shouldn't get half of everything you put in between now and then because otherwise you would put in nothing between now and then.

Right. So, that was going to be my next question is if I just stop contributing altogether. >> You have to contribute. Listen, if you did the worst deal in divorce history and she gets half of your TSP regardless of whether you put money in or not, that's the worst deal I've ever heard of in my life. I've never even heard of you

get half at 67.

That's just very weird, dude. Like, like

these lawyers are completely freaking incompetent. Weird. Okay. But if you did

do that, you need to go back and clarify. Is it what half of it today

becomes what 83,000 becomes at 67 or is it just

half of whatever's in there? Cuz if it's

half of whatever's in there, you don't put another dime in it. You're done with that.

You got to go put money in a Roth IRA and you got to put money in other stuff.

But you the TSP is off limits to you because she's going to take half of everything you put in there for the next you know how many how old are you?

>> Uh I'm 36. >> Yeah. Good God. For 30 years you're going to contribute to her. No thank you. You did the worst deal ever.

So no, we're not doing that. That's dumb. That's dumber than a rock, man.

I'm telling you that I'm so pissed at your lawyer right now. I can't see. I want to smack him. >> This is horrible.

But you did the deal. I guess it's final. >> So you need to go back and get clarity if she gets what half what 83,000 becomes or if she gets half of whatever's in there. >> It's going to be whatever's in there. Otherwise, they would have just transferred the 83 out.

>> They should have just transferred the 83 out. That's what they should have done. That would be normal instead of this dumb butt thing they did.

>> So >> yeah, John is correct. It is whatever is in there later cuz I tried to fight and get the half now. But then they were like, >> "Okay, then then here's what here's what it is. She gets half what that half becomes because it's not going to become anything else cuz you're not going to add anything else to it. You're stupid if you do." >> Okay. >> But you are the one that signed this divorce decree also. So Oh my god. This is a horrible man. It's just horrible.

>> She has 30-year claim on future earnings for you. >> Jeez, man. >> Y'all have kids?

But we have two of them. >> I've heard I've heard a few >> This is I want to get away from this woman really bad is what this is.

>> I've heard I've heard in a rightfully so a future claim on future earnings if you've got kids through the age of 18.

Right. So if you were making 25 grand and suddenly you're making 150 grand. >> That's child support. >> That's not this >> that's child support.

That's normal. >> That's that's what I'm saying. I've heard of that. >> That's normal.

But half the 401k is normal. Half the TSP is normal. But you transfer it now and it rolls out into an IRA and then she goes whatever she does with it. Okay, your answer is you have a truck you can't afford that you bought while you're grieving your broken heart and you broke your heart was broken by your wife and your idiot attorney.

So, you've got to sell this truck, honey. And I love Raptors. I drove one over here today. I like them, but this truck is brain damage. So, it's killing you. You cannot afford to drive this truck. It's more truck than you can afford with the money you make. Sell your truck. get your budget back balanced and move into the future. And please don't put anything else in this TSP.

[Music]

[Music]

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That's called being an adult. But how do you choose from all the options out there? Well, it's actually simple. Life insurance has one job. It's to replace your income if you die. Term life insurance is the most efficient, inexpensive way to do that. The others include investments and crap that rip you off, like whole life and permanent life. We don't do those. End up doing a really bad job at everything. Instead, just do term life. 10 to 12 times your annual income, 15 to 20year level term, which means the premium stays the same.

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or click the link in the show notes.

Wendy is in Washington. Hi Wendy, how are you? >> Hi, good. Thanks for having me on.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, so there's there's no easy way to

say this, so I'm just going to jump right into it. >> Cannonball. Let's do it.

Okay. So, um my sister stole everything

from my parents in their senior years

and my mother died of neglect under her care and my dad ended up in the hospital days later during which she wiped out their bank accounts, maxed out their credit cards and she contributed on some level if not all of their reverse mortgage being maxed out to the tune of $450,000.

Um, my father has later stages of dementia. Now I know from going through

what I've been with him the last two years that my mom uh also I'm positive

had dementia at the time. And so my sister had been living with them slowly took over she moved in right before COVID slowly took over their home slowly

took over their finances and just abused them because they weren't mentally and physically able to do anything about it.

What a lovely girl.

That's >> heartbreaking. Really hard.

>> Yeah, >> really hard. So, um, my dad is safe.

He's in a secured memory care facility now and he's being cared for. It took me seven months of fighting on so many levels I can't even name them. It would take 20 pages of writing. Um, but finally got his social security safe, which is all he has left. Um the home that they owned for um almost 40 years

was auctioned off um and we lost it and

um I did not expect to get any funds from it because of the condition she left in. It basically looked like a meth house that squatters got into.

>> Mhm. >> Um but it did it auctioned off for an

amount that left funds to the tune of about $130,000 left. Um, and as soon as those funds

came into my control, I was forced to go through conservatorship and guardianship to help my dad because their will, unfortunately, their will wasn't notorized. And every banking institution and everyone we dealt with said that it wasn't valid. And so it took me a lot of

hard work to try to prove that there were any funds stolen when I didn't have access or and I wasn't a POA to request copies of financial statements and those things. So it took me seven months to get his money safe, his account safe and

um and he ended up homeless and living with my husband and I and we cared for him for seven months until his health got to a point where he needed to be in a secured memory care facility.

>> I got you. Okay. So, where are we today?

>> So, where are where we are is the house actually auctioned off. We have the 130,000. He immediately lost Medicaid because he had that money. So, we're on private pay. And I don't expect those funds to last through mid next year.

>> Okay. And then he'll be back on Medicaid. >> Then he'll be back on Medicaid. Correct.

And so my here's my question. Um if if

my dad passes, he's you know I mean the

reality of it is it could be at any time. If my dad passes, the will states

um the intent of the will and what my parents wanted was to the funds to be divided between their living children, which would be my brother and my sister and I. Um my soul cannot do that based on everything she's done. And I'm I guess >> You mean the 130,000 if he died today?

>> Yes. >> Because that's the only thing that's left, right? There's nothing else. >> That's all that's left. And honestly, there are a few bills like between attorneys fees and things. I just don't see anything being left over. But I also didn't expect the house to sell.

>> Yeah. When you uh when you went through all the stuff for the last seven months, did you have expenditures out of your pocket?

>> Oh, yeah. My husband and I financed

him. Yeah. Yeah. I I did a little I did

a little bit and reimburse yourself.

>> All of it. >> Okay. >> Out of the 130.

>> Okay. That move that moves it out of his name into your name.

>> As a conservator, I had a very strict budget that I had to stick to so I could bring it up next time I go to court. >> Yeah. Go to court and say, "I need all my legal fees reimbursed for protecting him." >> Yeah. Those were covered. Those got reimbured. >> Yeah. And I need to pay all the legal bills. I need to pay out of this. I want to deplete this money down to where there's nothing there. And then you don't have a moral conundrum.

>> Yeah. I just was curious if you know if

the intent of the will still stands and

>> Okay, >> the will's not valid. Everybody told you that.

>> Okay. >> The will doesn't it's not even a will because it's not notorized and your state requires it to be notorized, >> right? >> You he dying He's dying without a will.

>> For me, >> he's dying without a will.

>> Okay. So, >> because he's not competent to execute a will. I'm sorry. He's not competent to execute a will under your state's terms right now. >> Correct. and he and he doesn't have a will under your state's terms right now.

Am I understanding that right? That's what everybody told you, right? >> Correct. >> That's why the conservatorship was put in place because the will was deemed invalid.

>> Okay. >> So, the will doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. >> That's for >> Yeah. But guess what? The state is going to say, most states say the three the

three children are the three heirs and they' be split three ways if there's no will. That would be normal. So, you're back to the same problem. But there's going to be no money left if I'm you because I will have spent this down like the next time I'm in front of the judge.

>> Okay. >> I'm going to go buy him an $80,000 bed and put in there.

>> Yeah. >> I'm serious. There's not going to be any money left. >> Yeah. No, I don't expect there to be. I think my biggest fear, and it's not like a thing of trying to win or trying to stick it to someone. >> Oh, wait a minute. I got a better idea. Go before the conservatorship. And what I want to do is prepay the next year of

his care and I want to reimburse you for all of your legal expenses.

And I think the money's gone.

>> Yeah, it will be. Okay, good.

>> All right. And Wendy, you were about to go there. I'll go there for you.

>> You don't There's no revenge. Let your sister go. >> Oh, I have. I totally I 100% have. I think I had a really hard time with the fact that there she's never been held accountable for for anything.

>> I've got a hard time with it. I'm kind of pissed right now.

>> You You haven't let it go though because you're projecting future whatifs and you're trying to solve them and be heartbroken and angry in the present.

>> That's true. It's true. You got me.

>> Just stop. Don't Don't You have enough challenges of today. For today.

>> Yeah. >> You and your husband have proven to each other that we can come together when life throws us chaos. Y'all done an amazing job. You have a great marriage. I'm so proud of you. >> And guess what? Parasites don't eat as well as carnivores.

>> They just don't.

>> She So, at the end of the day, she's still a miserable hack.

>> She didn't get what she was after. She was looking for something. She couldn't get there. >> No. And so it's like, you know, just being a thief is never it's never a rewarding profession, >> especially from your aging >> parents. She's got to she's got to live with that the rest of her life. Talk about a burden. >> Yeah. Let her carry that, not you.

>> She disappeared for the last two and a half years, but during the guardianship Yeah. And during the conservatorship process, um, she had to be served and she found out that there was equity in the home and immediately showed up. Of course she I know. You're saying that like you're surprised. >> You're doing You're doing all this again. >> You're saying that like you're surprised. >> Of course she did. >> She stole from your parents. Of course she's going to show up. >> She wanted to finish the theft.

>> Yeah. >> Oops. I left a brooch on the dad on the dresser. >> Yeah. >> Don't create stories in the future and let them keep you up at night in the present. >> Yeah. It's just You've been running this over in your head. You burned a whole lot more calories on this than she has.

>> Yeah. Thank you. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry you've been through this. And what she did was horrible. She's a horrible human.

>> You're an amazing daughter. >> She's a horrible human being. And you did all the right stuff. So come out with her rewards, which is, you know, I did the right thing. I put my head on my pillow. But yeah, go prepay the nursing home with with the conservator's permission and put the rest in your pocket to recoup all of your time, your expenses, your legal fees. I'll guarantee you there's $80,000 there for sure.

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Mike and Lori are on the debt-free stage in the Ramsey Solutions lobby. What's up, guys? >> Hi, Dave. >> Good to see y'all again. And y'all were on the cruise with us. >> We were. >> We were. >> Wow. >> Well, welcome. Welcome. >> I'm glad you didn't wear your swimsuit on the the Jeffree stage.

>> You don't want to see that, John. >> I've already seen it. I'm all right now.

>> Everything's better now. >> Everything's better now. >> How much debt have you two paid off?

>> Uh $175,000.

>> Wow. >> How long did this take, Mike?

>> 29 months, Dave? >> Wow. And your range of income during that time? >> Range of income was 210,000 to 250,000.

>> Woo. What do y'all do for a living?

>> I am an accountant. I'm a actually client services representative for a MCO, a workers comp MCO company.

>> And I am a healthcare administrator and a nurse. >> Oh, awesome. Very cool. What kind of debt was the 175?

>> It was mostly our home.

>> Oh, look at the weird people. I'm >> telling you, >> houses paid off. I love it. What's the

house worth? >> About 600,000.

>> Very cool. And how much in your retirement nest eggs?

>> Over a million, Dave. Yeah, between us.

>> So, your baby steps millionaires, >> debtfree house and everything. How old are you, pups? >> We're >> Today is Mike's 60th birthday.

>> All right. Very cool. >> Kind of a milestone. >> And I'm 57. >> All right. And you got a net worth of a million and a half to$2 million. Way to go, y'all. Very proud of you. How's that feel? >> Amazing. >> It feels amazing, Dave. It really does.

like you say on the show and um it just takes something off your shoulders when it happens. Just amazing. >> Yeah. So, >> man, I'm so proud of you guys. That's so amazing. So, how did you run into the whole Ramsay thing 29 months ago?

>> I'll just tell you I I'll start um just started watching your Lori got me really hooked on your YouTube videos and we just started watching those. That was a big part of it. Um I'll just tell you this. She um she bought your um Total Money Makeover book about over 25 years ago and I think you're right.

It was kind of just on the coffee table for a long time. >> Yeah. It's good for the It's a good coaster. Yeah.

>> And then we're like we started reading and we're like this is unbelievable and just um I think the goals are so important.

So >> So you got you went in all all you took it off the coffee table and went full in when?

Well, we we when we took the FPU, so we kind of baby Ramsey a little bit.

>> Yeah. When was that? >> Probably during COVID because we couldn't travel anymore. >> Most of our five years you've been going, but the last 29 months was paying off the house, >> right? >> Okay. >> Pretty much. >> All right. Wow. Good for you guys. Fun, fun, fun, man. All right. Now that you've been through all of that and you're standing here, I mean, do you remember being 20some and thinking about being a millionaire someday? Oh, >> no. >> I do. I do remember that.

>> I remember it.

>> Yeah. Oh, it >> But I had no idea how much work it was going to be. >> Right. Right. >> And I had no idea how good it was going to feel. I had this this feeling like I was in my head. It was like hitting the lottery, >> but it's quite the opposite. It's much deeper, richer. It It's not as The money is not as important. It's what you become while you're getting it together.

>> Yes. >> True. >> And who you are as a couple and who you are as people and the way you see things, it's completely different.

No doubt about it, Dave. Yeah.

>> What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt and being a millionaire, almost two millionaire by the time you're 60? >> I just think the main reason is just it's just we just we almost acted as one, Dave. Like um like you talk about marriage, we always felt like we had a solid marriage ever over the years, but it just took it to a new level where we're just doing something that we have each have a goal for and then we just did it together. Don't you think, hun?

>> Yeah. And I think, you know, having a vision and finding a plan and when you

look at a plan, I mean, the Ramsay seven baby steps is the best plan to have. And I have to say one of the things I really I know Rachel gets a lot of hate mail for this is one thing I really had a hard time doing was combining bank accounts. And we did not do that until closer to the end of our debt freedom.

And it simplified our whole entire life.

So I just I I think keep saying that to people because I think we do need to hear it. >> So you were the one that was resistant.

Yeah. >> Is that what you're saying? >> Okay. Why?

>> You know, probably some rooted fear somewhere. Yeah. >> And >> well, Mike is a scary guy.

Don't smile. Not happy. Yeah, that's right.

>> You you you mentioned something that we've started saying more and more around here. There's solving for this

fear somewhere and there's always going to be more fear over the horizon. But you went in and did this and you started solving for peace and just the idea of getting multiple bank account statements every month reconciling. Just looking at each other and just reconciling one gives you 30 minutes back a week or an hour back a week and suddenly you start to do things together. I I just I love it, man.

>> What What's a tangible You're in your 60s. >> I like to say that almost. Sorry, that was that was pretty harsh, but she's not hurt. >> Yeah, she's not.

Um, >> imagine there's a couple who's in their 30s.

>> What would you tell them right now what the other side of this journey feels like?

>> Oh, I just think it's just you just got to focus. I mean, the big thing is just believe. You know, a lot of people out there, I think we've you talked about this on the show, they don't believe they can do it. And no matter what your debt is, you've seen it with Jade, with others, it can happen. And just focus.

get on the same page with your spouse and just go at it. And it's um it's so worth it, John. Like you said, it's just it's not an easy thing. Um but it was

it's a lot easier than being in debt.

Lori and I have gone on trips over the years prior to co and we'd budget a certain amount. Um we went to Italy, went to London, went to Hawaii and stuff and then we'd always use our credit cards over and above what we budgeted and that's just you can't do it. Just go over and then it's so rewarding once you do get that control. I think it's about doing the right thing biblically and just doing the right thing um as human beings.

>> It's so strange that discipline is satisfying. >> Oh my gosh, Dave. Exactly. >> That's a strange paradox.

>> And she's amazing. I just have to say this.

That's Lori. I I've had it same job. I love it. Like what I do. Um but she has just gone over and above to get new jobs. Um she also even did a side hustle. She got her nursing degree and she does a side hustle working at a um this um village actually senior village in Columbus. So she was a big part of this. A huge part of it.

>> Yeah. Well, the bigger the shovel, the faster you get out of the hole. That's a big deal. >> I don't know how I would feel if a nurse walked in and like, "Hey, this is my side hustle." >> That didn't sound good.

>> No, that's so that's incredible, guys.

I'm so proud of you. >> Thank you. >> Proud of you. Well, >> and hey, it's hard. Hard to change patterns in a marriage this far along.

And for you to say like, >> how long have you been married? >> 23 years. >> I'm I'm scared to do something as

seemingly simple as join a bank account.

We've been doing it this way for this long. This isn't working. I'm going to try this. That takes real courage and bravery. I'm proud of you, man. That's hard. It's hard to It's hard to stop the dance. It's been going on for 20some years. And you did it. That's amazing.

>> Thank you. Yeah. and you'll reap the benefits of it of being able. So now you're worth a couple million dollars.

You're 100% debtree house and everything. You're you're making a quart million dollars a year. What's the first big financial fun thing you're going to do? >> Well, we're going to take my mom to Spain next year on the river cruise. Is that awesome? >> Yeah. >> Why Spain?

>> We've always wanted to go. >> Oh, cuz she wanted to go. Okay. And how >> And she wants to go, too. >> I like Of course she wants to go. I bet she does. Yeah. >> And it's a cruise, too, Dave. So you guys got you got us kind of hooked up crazy. All right, that's good. >> John, I just have to say this. Um, we actually did the marriage class with you and Rachel and it was phenomenal. I mean, I just want to thank you. Well, you guys are so entertaining, too.

You're funny. >> Yeah, they're both they're like a couple comedians doing standup marriage standup routine. Yeah. >> Well, I'm glad you all came. >> Thank you. >> That's good. All right. Well, enjoy Spain. I'm very proud of you guys.

Excellent. Live like no one else. Now you can live and give. Take mom with you to no like no one else. I like it.

Reward it. That's good. So, $175,000

paid off in 29 months. House and everything in the process. Confirm and

become baby steps millionaires. Mike and

Lorie, Columbus, Ohio. Count it down.

Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> Yeah.

>> That's how you do it, ladies and gentlemen.

worth all the trouble. That's all I can say. >> And I'll say this, the biggest lesson I'm taking away from Mike and Lori is it's never too late. >> Amen. >> It's never too late. >> It's never too late to change the way you interacted your marriage. It's never too late to change how you interacted with your money. It's never too late.

Proud of you guys. Well done.

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Heat. Heat.

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Our

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scripture of the day, Romans 8:37. Yet amid all these things, we are more than conquerors and gain a surpassing victory

through him who loved us. Aa Mily said,

"Don't dodge difficulties. Meet them, greet them, beat them. All great men have been through the ringer and women

for that matter. That's true. Yeah. True, true, true. Pam is in Houston, Texas. Hey, Pam. How are you?

>> I'm just fine. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, we have a house that's paid off and we have a lot of equity in it.

>> Good. So my question is, you know, I

just see an opportunity to put more money into the stock market and I don't really see a lot of our money growing with all the equity that we have into it. So I want to get your thoughts on different scenarios, you know, sell the house, you know, because we're in, you know, we're 65 and 63.

>> What's wrong with the house?

>> Oh, nothing's wrong with it. It's just um we're think selling it, renting, and taking that money and then, you know, stocking it away in the stock market. >> So, what what's the house worth?

>> Um we're about a million.

>> And what's the how much do you have in your nest egg currently invested in 401ks and so forth?

>> We've got several seven figures. So,

>> several mill several million.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Like more than three.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So the answer to the question is

this is a hypothetical because your life

is okay. >> Yes. Yeah. But I I hate seeing money set idle. >> It's not sitting idle. The house is going up in value.

>> Well, I mean that's that is true.

>> It's going up in value almost as fast as the market is. >> Well, I would hope to think so, but >> No, I mean the actual data says that. It's not a hope.

>> Oh, well, that's good to hear because >> I buy real estate as an investment because it goes up in value.

>> Yeah. And that that is true. We've we've bought several properties and some that we've made money and some we've just kind of broken even with. But, you know, I just I just felt I just thought that, you know, by freeing up some of this money, we could just buy more stuff in

the stock market that we would like and just see if that would >> if that's a good investment. And and if we rented anything, it would just be what I'm paying right now and property tax, mud tax, you know, HOAs and insurance. I wouldn't want to go over that particular number. So, >> I'm sorry. If you rented >> I got confused. I thought you mean you're selling the house in this scenario. >> Yes. If I wanted to sell the house and then be a something.

>> Yes. At our age, we have the flexibility to not worry about the house. Then I could take all that money and then just sock it away in the stock market and then make my kids' lives easier if something should happen to us. >> Your kids are okay. Your kids gonna be fine. Um the um and if they're not, it's

their problem. The um >> Wow. Um can I want to ask this question?

And you um Pam, you and Dave are in a different stage of life than me financially and age-wise and otherwise.

I keep asking myself, if I got to be your age, >> Uhhuh. >> and I had that kind of resources, I'm living in a paid for million- dollar house. >> Yeah.

>> Why wouldn't you look to have fun?

Oh, we do have fun. We We do have fun. I mean, we just got back from a, you know, three-week trip in Europe. And >> so, is the house a burden in some way?

>> Um, it's a it's a lot of work.

>> It sounds like you want to move and you're looking for permission to move.

>> I guess so. We We do a lot of the yard work ourselves. It's just, you know, that's who we are. We're hard workers.

And so, we >> So, just move. >> So, stop it. Yeah. Pay somebody.

>> I don't do I don't do yard work.

Not cuz I'm a snot. I can just afford not to do it. >> You say you enjoy it, but >> you say you enjoy it, but you want to sell it and start renting.

>> Well, it just frees up, you know, I don't have to worry about the house. >> You're trying to make the fact that you don't like this house anymore into some kind of wise, sophisticated financial move, and it's not. >> Just sell the house and move. >> That's the answer to the question. If you want to move, that's okay. If you want to move into a uh a a you know, if

you want to sell out sell the house and buy a condominium for half of the price and all the work is done for you because you want to travel and see the world and you're you're tired of the upkeep and those kinds of things, that's a different motivation than Dave, I think it's wise to borrow or to sell my house and put all the money in the market and be a renter for the next 35 years. That is not wise.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Mathematically, that's not wise because what you have to have your largest line item in your monthly living expenses is housing.

>> And when you do not own the house, your largest line item called rent goes up every single year >> and you destabilize the situation. Now, not enough to cause you guys to be broke. You got enough money, you're going to be okay. >> But it's it's a destabilizer rather than a financial mathematical blessing to do what you're talking about. And the data also tells us this that the typical millionaire in the first $5 million of

net worth has mainly investments in

401ks in a paid $44 million house.

>> Yeah, >> that's the typical millionaire. None of the millionaires, precisely zero of the 10,000 that we interviewed said, "I became a millionaire by borrowing on my home and investing it into the stock market." That's not what you're proposing. But you are proposing to go

to to go backward in the line of uh financial evolution and become a renter instead of an owner.

>> I gota >> and that destabilizes the situation.

Now, can you afford to do that? Yes, if

that's what you want to do and you'll still be okay with the numbers you gave me. But is that but we're not going to blame it on the fact that it is a financially sophisticated move. It is not. Or if you want to, instead of paying rent, take a quarter of that and hire a full-time yard keeper, >> butler, maid, cook, whatever you want.

>> Yeah. And and you >> turn this thing into Downtown Abbey and ring a little bell. >> And it's okay for y'all to do that. To say, "Hey, we're 60 now. We don't want to do yard work anymore. We're going to go for walks instead. We're going to have long coffees in the morning." Like, you're here. You made it. You're here.

>> And that's okay. Or if you want to sell, like Dave said, if you want to sell a house and and buy an 800 square foot house, do that. But don't say it's don't try to like come up with some like matrix algorithm. Just say this is what we want to do cuz >> no, it's not it's not wiser to be a

renter and have the money invested in the stock market than it is to be an owner of your personal residence.

Mathematically, it is not wiser. That's the answer to your overall question.

>> And can I say one more thing? >> Yep.

your kids are going to get millions of dollars when you pass. They're fine.

Now, you're um there's a level of I'm

trying to think of the right word. Codependency. I need to make sure their future problems that they haven't even experienced yet are going to be okay so that I can be okay now. >> Yeah. And so, so I cut my own grass.

>> So, right. Don't put that on your kids.

>> I cut my own grass so that you have an inheritance. >> They're going to get a million dollars each. They're going to be fine. Y'all go on about your life. And if they're not, >> they're still gonna be >> It ain't the million dollars fault.

>> They've learned how to work hard for me. >> Plus or minus a yard fee, >> right? Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Your kids are good. Y'all are good.

>> Yeah. >> So, I cut I cut grass as my

high school thing. Had 27 yards to cut when I was 12 years old. I cut so much grass by the time I was 19. God said I never had to do it again.

>> No, he didn't. >> So, he did. It was a personal appointment I had with him. said. He spoke audibly to me. No, I'm kidding.

But um I've not picked up a weed eater or a lawn mower again. I mean, I mow my

grass. I mow my grass when Sharon and I got married for like one year >> and after that I just I'm done. I'm done with mowing grass. And you know, but

guess what? I can make more >> during the time that I would be, you know, and I and calling myself a hard worker >> riding a zeroturn mower around and around in circles like all the old men on my street. And I could do that, but no, I can make more in that two hours than that guy costs. And and he's got a good job and I got a good job and everybody's happy and I don't have poison ivy.

You know, life's good. You know, it's just um the there's some things that you what uh Arthur Brooks talked about this the other day. He you know, I had him on Entre Leadership and you had him on your show, too.

One of the things that money does is it buys back your time. >> It it's it's the to me that's the single greatest thing money does is it buy gives you it buys you time. >> Buys you time. >> It's a time machine.

>> It does buy you some comfort creature comfort things, but it buys your time back. And so if I don't have to do this thing over here, then I can do something else, right? >> And that's what money does for you. It will buy your time.

And that's the beauty of having been as incredible as Pam and her husband. We're picking at her. But um I mean, God mighty, they got four3 million.

Do what they want. Well done. Very well done, y'all. Pretty stinking cool. That puts this hour of the Ramsay Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 49. Dumb Financial Decisions Stunt Your Financial Growth | October 15, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `MwyEqFKh9QQ` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwyEqFKh9QQ) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:03:34 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. George

Kamel, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and my co-host

is my co-host today. Josh is with us in Alabama. Hey Josh, how are you?

Hey Dave, doing well. How about yourself? Better than I deserve, sir.

What's up? Thanks for taking my call. Yes, so we're just curious about to get married here in about a month and start a family shortly after.

However, my fiance just got into CRNA

school to be a certified registered nurse anesthetist, and we'd be taking on about $200,000 in student loan debt. So,

I'm just curious if you would think that would be a smart commitment for for us to make as we're starting family here in the near future.

You you do know who you called, right?

Yes, sir. That's why I'm calling you. I mean, what what do you what I mean, what do you expect us to say?

We've never told anyone to go in debt in our lives, much less $200,000 1 month after you get married.

Yes, sir. >> my breath away.

I I understand. My The only bright side coming out of that is, you know, right now she in her regular nurse job probably makes close to $70,000 a year, where coming out of that, she would make close to about $200,000 a year.

Yeah, but you made a you made an incorrect assumption there.

What is that, sir? That 100% of the people that start this graduate.

Understood. The other incorrect assumption there she is selected in terms of income potential is huge. Um,

uh medical degree. It was not a nurse anesthetist. It was a different one, and she had $250,000 in debt, and her first

child had special needs and demanded that she go home and take care of her child.

Yep. You know what she is? You know what that couple is? That couple screwed.

Because life doesn't turn out exactly like your little plan.

Ever. So, now you got grouchy Dave. Sorry.

Let's Let's play it out, Josh. You told me you're on the cusp of getting married. You want to start a family. You want to have, you know, this adult life.

Here's how this would play out. You guys have a baby. She looks into that baby's eyes and says, "I want to stay home." And you go, "Honey, we're $200,000 in debt. We were banking on you making 200 grand to get out of this hole." And now it's an emotional decision to go, "Do I want to stay home, which is what I feel called to, or do I need to go do this job to get rid of the debt?" And so, that's what we're trying to help you see is that potential future of pain.

Right. And that's that's kind of where I'm at, and I've kind of had those conversations. I guess this is something that she's dreamed of doing and wanted to do, and it's W- W- W- Wait wait wait wait wait. If we have two dreams that are in conflict, it's called a nightmare.

Yes, sir.

And one of the dreams is that I want to I want to have I want to start a family.

Now, do do nurse anesthetists work full-time and have a family? Yes, they do. That is a possibility. Okay? And so,

it is a possibility that she goes and she graduates perfectly, and she makes two, three, even four hundred thousand dollars a year, which is a It is a great career field that she has selected in terms of income potential is huge. Um,

but the assumption that you take on when you just act like this is an autopilot thing is you leave out all the other variables in your life, and that's just unwise. So, I can't tell you I've never told anyone in the history of this show to go into debt uh for for student loans ever in any circumstances. If I was going to, it'd probably be something like that field.

Uh cuz I actually like her field better than I do an MD in terms of income potential uh versus what she's going to spend. It's a pretty incredible field that she's signing up for. But, that's not I But, what I tell someone I love to do what you're asking me? No, and I love you guys. I don't want you to do this.

Uh I want you to find another way for her to go do that school at some point.

Find another way for it to get paid for.

Uh find another way to make sure that this is what she wants to do versus stay home with her new child that might have

needs. So, I would wait until you guys have the baby, and she might decide to keep working, and you guys have saved up a bunch of money by then. You're in a good spot financially. Maybe then we pursue it. I I I think the concept of going and getting this degree is a very wise decision. How you're going about it and the timing of when you're going about it is very unwise and selfish and strange and immature.

And you're going to screw this up.

Please don't do it.

Hope I wasn't unclear. I understood it.

We'll just start with the caffeine, okay? We'll just start right off the bat with the caffeine. I mean, gosh, man, it's just it's We have the

burden and the privilege of having sat in these seats now for decades, you, me,

and the other personalities hearing when all of this crap, best-laid plans of mice and men, go sideways.

When you think that all of your positive assumptions are how things are going to turn out, and they just don't turn out that way. I actually wouldn't be here doing this if they turn out the way they're supposed to. I would be a multi-bazillionaire in real estate.

But, in turn But, it turns out that even though I was making money in real estate, even though I'd never lost money on a deal, even though I wasn't a dime late or a day late on a single note, a banker looked down when the bank got sold to another bank and looked at our paperwork and said, "Oh, there's a 26-year-old child boy that owes us a million two.

Let's limit this relationship." And they looked down and pulled a obscure paragraph out of the paperwork and called my notes.

Does that mean you had to pay them in like That started two and a half years of me losing everything I owned.

With our water getting cut off, our electricity getting cut off, and our marriage almost ending.

With a brand new baby, a toddler, and a marriage hanging on by a thread, we got the opportunity to start over because things don't turn out like you plan. Mhm.

And so, and I was good at it, too. And I'm smart. I didn't do dumb stuff. The only dumb thing is I signed up for a big old pile of debt thinking it was always going to work out. And the borrower is slave to the lender 100% of the time.

So, not a real popular thing to talk about 1 month before you get married.

You get to be the dream killer for your fiance. What kind of man are you anyway? But, you know, I don't know. >> ask how to how to start your marriage off on the right foot, I'd go, "Well, let's be aligned, and let's try to avoid being $200,000 in debt." If we can avoid all that, I think we're in a decent spot.

So, I don't think it's going to set you guys up for success in your marriage while you also want to get a house and want to upgrade the cars and live your life, go on vacation while being saddled with all of this debt. And we don't even know if they had other debt. There could have been a a pile already sitting there to deal with. So, it stresses me out going into marriage like that.

And if you're not aligned on money going

into a marriage, you have a problem.

Cuz you're not aligned on the one the number one cause of people splitting up.

Hello. You know, the other three are you're not aligned on religion, how to raise kids and whether to have them, and how to deal with the freaking in-laws.

And if you're not aligned on that, those four things, you're going to struggle severely in the first decade of your marriage, and it likely will end in divorce. But, if you're aligned, and you're like, "Yeah, let's do it. Let's go." then have at it. But, I mean, Josh, you you just walked in the bear's den, and you knew it. So, I'm I'm confused why you called.

Cuz you knew what you were getting into here. But, anyway, man, find another way to live your life

more wisely.

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Jacob is in Tennessee. Hi Jacob, how are you?

Hey Dave, how are you guys doing today?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

So, I just had a quick question.

Um so, me and my girlfriend met online.

I I grew up in Michigan, she lived in Tennessee. And when we had initially started dating, you know, I told her I'm not just going to cave and move to Tennessee. I don't want you to just cave and go to Michigan. We'll kind of try each state out and, you know, make a decision from there. And she mentioned that her family has about um 40 acres of land in Tennessee.

And, you know, I like Tennessee. It's not my favorite place in the world, but, you know, it's not a bad spot. And she mentioned that her mom gives everybody, you know, an acre of land when it when the relationship starts to get serious.

And, you know, we've been dating just under 2 years now.

The problem is recently, you know, her mom has been interjecting herself in our relationship, you know, trying to make decisions for us, you know, kind of going behind my back and essentially kind of trying to convince my girlfriend not necessarily to dump me, but questioning every decision I make.

And, you know, it's kind of gotten to the point where, you know, she's butting in our finances and she's kind of weaponizing that and saying, "Hey, I'm not going to give you this acre of land. I don't, you know, I don't like the way you do this or the way you do that." And when me and my girlfriend talked about it recently, I just kind of said, you know, ultimately if that's how it's going to be, I don't know if we want it.

Like, I don't like, you know, starting such a major decision, especially when we're building a house or buying a house somewhere under an ultimatum, given how How how old are you?

So, I'm about 25 years old. I just turned 25. And my girlfriend >> you do for a living?

I'm a DevOps engineer. And how much do you make?

I make about six figures and my girlfriend makes about 60 grand a year.

So, um what have you done that made this lady dislike you or think that you're not good for her daughter?

So, when I moved here initially, so I work from home, right? And that's the only reason I was able to move freely.

The problem is where we live in Tennessee, our local tech store is about an hour away. So, her big thing is I buy stuff on

Amazon a lot, you know, like it'll be a cable for my computer, it'll be things for my desk, or even a lot of stuff >> Wait wait wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

Very few women would keep their daughter from marrying a young man that they like dearly because he buys stuff on Amazon.

I asked what you did that caused this woman to think that you're not good enough for her daughter. And buying stuff on Amazon is not the answer, dude.

Really, what's the real answer?

In her mind, she sees the purchases and thinks that I make irresponsible financial decisions. I mean, I'm not I'm not even making that part up. In her mind, she sees the purchases, you know, I told her I make good money. I've told her, you know, I I balance finances.

And I told her, you know, since me and my girlfriend have started dating, we've been planning for this house and just for the build and we've been kind of making sure our credit looks good so we can get a mortgage or a construction loan. I mean, Planning to build on her land? The land that she's going to give them, the 1 acre that she's going to >> Yeah. Okay, so well, there's a couple things here.

So, your plan your plan that you've been doing sucks.

Okay? So, you need a new plan. It's like, I'm going to make you my wife and then we're going to talk about building a house, not we're going to talk about building a house and then I'll make you my wife. Now, that isn't what you've been saying.

You've been saying the words coming out of your mouth were shack up, shack up, shack up, shack up, shack up. >> meddling with our finances.

>> And she's meddling You don't we don't have an our finances. There's not one cuz you're not married. There's a your finances and her finances.

Well, yes. I I understand what you're saying, but the end goal like when we envisioned the house, obviously we were talking about marriage. We've already kind of envisioned that, you know, we've had that conversation that, you know, end of next year, that was kind of my goal was to propose and after we, you

know, If you are going to get married and then build a house, it's real simple. >> Yeah. It's real simple. Just build it somewhere else.

1 acre of land in the area you're talking about in the middle of nowhere Tennessee is not that big of a deal.

Whoop-de-doop-ty.

Same thank you for the gift, but we'll pass.

We think We think We think we're going to be better able to love you from a distance.

That's true love. I mean, you know, I I I understand that. That That's where my head's at, you know, and that's >> Listen, either this lady has identified a character

or are so or oh or are so lacking in

self-awareness that you know is there and she thinks you need to be run off because you're not good for her daughter or this lady's a nut job.

Okay? >> No, I mean, I'm serious.

>> packages on your on your front porch are not enough reason to run off the boyfriend, potential fiance, son-in-law.

That's not enough reason.

Yeah. It's just not. So, if that if if that is truly it, Jacob, and I really have trouble believing that there's actually a human out there that stupid, but there might be.

If there and you're you're proclaiming that. So, I but I having walked through the marriage process with three children who have now been married for over 10 years and before they got to those winners, we ran off a few losers. Uh I might have been accused of being your mother-in-law at some point. But it wasn't because Amazon packages.

It was because of character flaw.

Or because of, you know, well, I mean, lack of work ethic. That's a character flaw, right? Dishonesty, that's a character flaw, right? Yeah, these are These are people you don't want to marry and don't want your kids marrying. So, if you're not something that is If you are a young gentleman,

a knight of honor that is worthy of the fair maiden's hand, then this woman's a nut job.

And you do not want to be living in her backyard on money on on a acre she gave you. There is no circumstance in which that's going to turn out well.

Ever. So, you have to declare this to be one way or the other. We have to figure out what is really going on with this woman and solve for quality relationship or we

have to distance ourself.

And it doesn't sound to me like you guys need to be in a backyard.

And you're the boyfriend. And so, >> And you don't need to be doing any of this cuz you It's between the mom and the daughter. If there's boundary issues, that's up to the daughter to decide. Yeah. So, I would have her do that. If she's not If she's not defending you and she's just letting you, you know, roll over and take it, this relationship's not going to pan out. Dave just talked about how being misaligned with in-laws is a big reason

that marriages don't succeed. And so, we're already seeing a red a huge red flag here. I 100% recommend parents interfere in their grown children's lives if there is a loser involved and run them off. I 100% recommend that.

Because you love them and you have more wisdom than they do and you're not all hot and bothered about them. So, you're actually seeing them clearly.

And so, I 100% recommend that.

But if they're are If they're functional and this is a good one, not a perfect one, but a good one, let's let's encourage the union done in proper order and then try to speak persuasion over the finances if there's something to be persuaded there. If that's If truly the only thing wrong with Jacob is he buys too much stuff on Amazon or more stuff than she's accustomed seeing on Amazon, that's a pretty simple thing to process through if someone involved has the relational IQ to do it.

But Guys, um Ja- Jacob, she is not violating the boundaries

of you guys of the couple's finances cuz

the couple doesn't have finances.

Her daughter has finances and you have finances. And so, if she says something about her daughter's finances, she's perfectly capable of doing that.

And her daughter, depending on her age and maturity level, is perfectly capable of setting a boundary with her own mother. And she obviously doesn't get a vote in your finances.

But it's when you start talking about this stuff as if you're married and you're not, that that my red flags go up and if I'm mom, I'm running you off.

Because you have a bunch of this crap out of order. And I think that might be what's going on here. But like, you know, Jacob wants to build a house on my land and not be married to my daughter. Yeah, I don't think I'm going to go along with that, mom says. We need mom to call in. We got to hear her side of the story here. Yeah, so that could be what it is, Jacob, but it could be that she's just nuttier than a fruitcake and you don't need a fruitcake near you.

And so, you just get away from the fruitcake. Just a little distance, little distance. It's a principle I live by. Distance makes the heart grow fonder, you know, it's like it takes about a year of marriage to know how close to your mother-in-law to live. Yeah, she watches the front door.

She knows what's coming. How does she know he's buying all this stuff on Amazon? She's a little too close for comfort.

My mother-in-law doesn't know what's showing up at the house. That's all I'm saying.

I don't know what's you're up at your house either, George. So, it would scare me, probably. I would probably question you. It's a lot.

I would probably violate your boundaries. Just say, "George, what are you doing, man?"

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Jim is in New York. Hey Jim, how are you?

Good well, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh question for you. I have a 20-year-old son uh that feel he's done a a good job of getting him set up for success. Uh I decided not to go to the college route and went the skilled trade uh route. And the agreement we made was that if he wasn't going to school and he was going to be living at home that he had to put half of his uh net income into a savings account um until he wanted to move out and we wouldn't charge him any rent or anything.

Fast forward, he's now 20, going to be 21. Um he's at a point where he's got a

considerable amount of money in his savings account, about 60,000.

Um and I'm just wondering at what point do we start steering him to move out of the house? Should we move him towards ownership?

Um you know, how much should he be looking to put down out of that money that he's saved? Where should we be steering him next?

>> Wow, very cool. So, what trade did he go into?

He's a heavy machine mechanic. Very good. Very cool. Good. How old were you when you left home, Jim?

Uh I was 20. But I had no money and was

waiting on my paycheck to come and check and pay my first month's rent. Yeah, I had a dollar 12.

And I was out of there. Um

So, money's not the problem.

>> Joe Joe George, what Well, how old were you? >> You were 20. Oh, I think we have a consensus, Jim. Um That's my Is he wanting to leave or is he like, "No, I'm good. I got it good here." Uh no, I think he's good with either way. I mean, he's he's a good kid. Yeah, he's he's it's hard it's a hard decision because it there's nothing wrong here.

Yeah, it's not that I want him out. And not that he wants to be out. He's not trying to escape. So, that makes it a harder decision. So, uh just from a developmental standpoint, uh he'll become a man faster if he doesn't live in his mama's house.

Correct. Pretty simple. And so, I'm it's not I'm not in a rush. Doesn't have to be tomorrow. Doesn't have to be before Thanksgiving. I'm not doing that. I mean, it's not it's not that. There's a lot of grace around this. But let's begin to talk about the set a set a date certain that we all aim at.

Cuz his mom probably won't Honestly, my wife didn't want any of ours to leave.

They'd still be there.

And um but I'm just like, "No, you're leaving. And you can come back when you bring grandkids." And so, um and then only for a visit. But yeah, you're out of here. And so, because it's so good for him.

I mean, you just walk different when you buy your own milk.

You know? You just carry your shoulders a little different. When you did you know, when the underwear doesn't get washed unless you wash it. Hello. And so, it's just a different thing, man. And so, it's good. But I mean, so I would set a date that sometime no later than now 12 months from today that he's out. And no, I would not buy I would just get out and rent something for a little while. Uh get a couple roommates.

Yeah, and then just pile up some more cash. He's doing so good financially.

He's so responsible. He's a hard worker.

He's completed the He completed the loop on his training. He's making the money.

He's stacking the money. This is a good kid, man.

Way to go, Jim.

You did good. Well, thank I I did Should I be steering him to invest some of that money in anything long term? I mean, right now it's literally sitting in a low yield You know, what I would do is have him sit down with a SmartVestor Pro. Get get one of the SmartVestor Pros in the area and and and meet with them and you could go on the meeting and just say, "Hey, I'm going to go with you just so I can understand what he's telling you." And I want you to understand.

So, this meeting is a meeting to teach.

between now and the time he uses it to buy a house.

Okay. And and but I want him to begin to learn about it and begin to go into a guy like that's office and a gal like that's office and sit there and have that experience of meeting because I mean, if you've got a master's degree in finance, meeting with an investment

professional is intimidating.

If you are a machinist, it's super intimidating. And if you're 20, it's super duper intimidating.

So, it's really good to get it out of the way to figure out that these people are just people and that they're there to serve you, help you, teach you to hit your goals, and then you can begin to build a friendship, build a relationship, and begin to learn from begin the process of learning from them.

And that's all I would do. I don't think he needs to really invest any of it big time. There's no big deal here.

The secret sauce is him.

And he's got that down. >> And he's got plenty of time for compound growth to do his work. So, when he's ready to invest, he's going to go hard at it and become a multi multi-millionaire. So, right now he's really in kind of a baby step three B, where he's stacking up a down payment.

So, he doesn't need to be investing today, but it's good to start and get those principles down. And again, I would rent for sure. I would not go buy a house at 21. He doesn't need all of that right now.

Get him a couple roommates. If If rent's expensive in his area and he'd rather have some friends around, he's a social guy, you know, just get a few roommates. That's what I did until I was married and it made me more thankful for my wife. Once you're living with a woman versus a bunch of dudes, you're like, "Oh, this is so much better.

So much better. Just the hygiene level alone." Oh. George, you weren't there.

Someone had to do it.

So, yeah, that renting is not wasted

money when you are buying time.

Time to save up a down payment, time to get your life situated and set, time because we're not going to be in that city for that long and then that's not the case with this young man, probably.

But and so on. But that that's a great story, Jim. I love hearing that. And you know, did you I heard such maturity in the dad.

Oh, yeah. Holding the situation with an open hand. Not being controlling. >> What's a good idea?

I want to kick him out or I want him to stay and save money and I disagree with you guys. It was neither one. It was more like, "What's a good idea? What's good for my son?

>> think that you can check that on the bingo card for sure. Chelsea's in Pennsylvania. Hey Chelsea, what's up?

Hi Dave. Um we my husband and I are here

and we had a question for you.

Um we discovered you not too long ago

and we are in the middle of the baby steps.

Our question is we have a business and we took out a loan for $20,000 for the business, an LLC, and we have personal debt of about $16,000.

Um and we think we can get the personal debt down pretty quickly um doing the gazelle intensity that you said about.

But my question is once we pay off that personal debt, uh should we attack the business debt or can we start

investing? No, you need to you need to get rid of the business debt cuz it's not business debt. You signed for it personally.

Got you. Okay. >> You're personally liable. The bank does not think that's business debt. The bank thinks they loaned you money.

You only think it's business debt cuz you borrowed the money on your personal signature to use for business.

That's the only reason you think it's business debt. But it's legally not business debt.

Okay. So, we need to focus on getting that down as well. >> Oh, definitely. Definitely. Number one cause of small business failure.

Should Should we use like

How should we go about getting that business debt down because I know for the personal debt you know, we're going to go at it >> at the 16,000 like gazelle intense, you said. So, you've been listening with great intensity. You're going to shrink down your lifestyle, beef up your income, not go out to eat, not go on a vacation till you get the 16,000 paid off, right?

Right. >> Then do the 20.

Okay. You have $36,000 in consumer debt, kiddo.

Yeah. That's what you have. >> hoping it was I was hoping that it was considered somebody else's. No. Not somebody else's, but No, nobody else signed it. You're the one signed it. So.

Is the business successful? Is it making money? You guys paying yourselves?

It It It is now, yeah. That's why we used that took out that loan initially.

That's what we lived off of, $20,000 for the So, how much do you guys make? What do you make from the business? What do you take home?

Um this year we're set to take home 78,000. Good. Do you have jobs other than that?

No, and we started 2 and 1/2 years ago.

So, it's still pretty good. I think It's looking okay. It's looking okay.

You're at least profitable and you know, you can see a future that's positive.

That's good. Um but I mean it's not like

you won the Super Bowl or something. I mean you just now are getting to where you're making the money you would have been making if you had jobs.

Right. Exactly.

>> now that that's that's good, but now we need to go double it.

Cuz the purpose of running a business is make some more money. So, let's get after it. And uh in the process we'll get rid of this debt. So, and next time you want to expand or do anything with your business, pay cash for it or don't do it. That's a great rule. That'll keep you open. That'll keep you open. [Music]

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Logan is in Indiana. Hi Logan, how are you? Good, yourself? Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Uh I was wondering if I'm financially

doing what's correct in life. I have a little backstory to that. So, about 7 years ago, a little before that, but my mom gave me a car as my first car.

It had some mechanical issues. She offered to fix it and I was paying her back. Uh inevitably that car got destroyed.

But I saved up enough cash, I bought another car.

And then I blew the motor.

Took the money I had left from that

and my mom found a old college fund that she put together with like when I was born and she completely forgot about it. Took that money, bought another car.

Then I got into a head-on collision.

Took that money, bought another car.

Then blew the motor on that one. Then finally told myself, all right, let's go to a dealership. Let's go get a safe car

that way so it's under a warranty and everything. That one inevitably started me making problems that were not covered under warranty. Then so then the dealership was able to buy that car back, but then get me into a brand new car still with a little uh under money left over from the old one.

So, now I'm 46,000 in debt for that one.

But then at the time when I had the car that I I got in the head-on collision, me and my fiance at the time bought a house.

And

when we we separated 5 years later and I

had a family to go back to. He had no family to go back to. So, I left everything for the house for him and dropped my name off of the mortgage and everything. So, he took over that. How did you drop your name off of a mortgage?

Well, he refinanced and everything. So, it was only his name. >> So, you gave him the house and he refinanced the mortgage. All right, good. So, so you're clear of the house and you suck at buying cars. Okay. You ever tried riding a bicycle? This might be the solution to your problems, man.

So, I moved back home and since I moved back home and I got a better job, I have offered to uh pay back my mom for everything she's done for me. And uh with my new car, I'm letting her drive that and I took over her old car because where I work it utterly destroys your car and I don't want the brand new car to end up like my other cars.

So, is financially me taking care of my mom that way and all this correct the way I should have done my life or Well, I mean you you obviously don't think so. That's why you called.

Yeah. Because I mean the fruit of this is horrible.

How old are you?

27. Yeah.

And you're at home with a $46,000 car that you owe on that someone else drives. So, yeah. I mean decisions you've made have brought you here, so we can't call them good.

No. That's that's fair. I mean that's just an it's an observation. You've already owned that observation even in just the telling of the story to us.

So, Yes. um So, so uh No, um

With what you outlined, I'm not sure you owe your mother any money.

Um there was a couple times she gave you money, couple times she gave you your college fund, a couple times she helped you get a transmission and you you paid her back for that or a blown engine. You blew a lot of engines.

Um in this story. Um Do you do you like to oil changes and stuff?

Yeah, I do I do a lot of my own work.

But when it comes like to the >> a professional start doing it. Yeah, I mean based on the number of engines >> are. >> of engines have been blown. Um all right. So, how do we move forward from here with what we should have learned, okay?

Number one, we've got to get better at

um analyzing transportation

as being solid transportation and not overpaying for it, but also not buying crap. And so, don't ever buy another car but what you don't have a mechanic do an independent mechanic do the inspection before you buy the car. Period. Number two, don't let some dealer talk you into upgrading out of a lemon into a super expensive semi non-lemon

that's so expensive that your mother ends up driving it. So, this doesn't work. That car needs to be sold.

Do you know what it's worth?

Uh right now 38,000. Okay. Yeah, so you need to go borrow $8,000 from the credit union and sell this car.

And then get you a five or $10,000 car,

which scares you to death cuz you blow engines like anybody I've ever seen, but you need to go get a five or $10,000 car, pay cash for it. What do you make, by the way?

Uh so far, this will be my first year

that I'm fully at my job and it's just shy of 200,000.

Okay. Oh, that's great news.

Because you're single, uh right this second you don't have much overhead, and so you can get yourself squared around and go out and be an independent human being from your mother and get rid of this car and get a car that you pay cash for that is reliable, that a reliable mechanic gives you an analysis on before you buy it. And then if you want to >> Go ahead. I do have five other cars that I am using right now. Goodness gracious.

Do any of them have debt on them?

No, only only the one. Why do you have

five other cars?

Yes.

Where in this story did we miss that?

Are they functioning? >> I got. Yes, they're all functioning. Uh two are work vehicles that are at work and then

one is a uh daily driver

and another one is a race car.

Okay. So, um do you have any money saved, by the way?

I got 6,000 right now. Okay. Well, I couldn't tell. You got a lot of cars. >> Cuz I'm trying. All right, so what do you do for a living now?

Uh, I'm a slab hauler at the steel mill.

Okay, cool. Good for you.

The good news is you don't need to go to the credit union to borrow money cuz your next paycheck is going to cover the amount you're underwater on and probably going to sell this race car and maybe one other car to clean up this mess. And get out of your mother's basement, dude.

You know, go get an apartment, be like a guy. And have a have a a reasonable number of cars and a work truck, like one other car, like your daily driver and your work truck. And until you've got all of that, you're not making good financial decisions, no. Um, I would simplify your life.

I think I heard, let me see if I heard a trend, George. If see if I heard see if I can pull the thread here, okay?

Almost all of his financial problems

revolve around cars.

Too many, different kinds, too expensive, blowing engines.

The only one that he'd pulled off smart was he got his uh his roommate to take his boyfriend to take over his loan. And that was a smart move.

That was a smooth move to get out of that mess. But the car he never did a single car transaction that was that smart. Ooh.

So, yeah, cars are killing you. So, if the word car shows up anywhere in your brain, run.

Away. Run away. Anything that has a car has a motor in it or wheels on it is a curse to you, sir. Because every interaction you've had with vehicles has been negative.

Now, most people have negative interactions cuz they do break and they do go down in value and people do get upside down in them and they do pay too much, but not like you, man. You you made it into a science.

And so, you've got to run when you hear the word car because everything that bad that has happened to your money just about everything bad in the whole story you told us was revolving around cars.

Could have been avoided if you just rode that bicycle.

Just like I said.

Okay, be careful. That also has wheels.

Yeah. That's true. We can't worry about the >> or a motor gives this guy trouble. But no engine on that bicycle. Oh, man, I'm sorry you're going through this, but you can clean it up. That's the good news. You have a great income. >> news is, Logan, you can back out of some of these bad decisions and be a free man very soon. Like by Christmas, your life has changed if you do this. Yeah. Yeah.

And you'll just be almost lots less cars. Lots less cars.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. George Kamel, Ramsey personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour and number one best-selling author is my co-host. Catherine is with

us in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi, Catherine.

How are you?

Hi, Dave. Hi, George. How are you guys?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

Um, I'll just cut to the chase. Um,

I basically I got served with divorce papers 2 weeks ago.

Um, I'm kind of in a tailspin, but

most importantly, um, just really

concerned on how do I like move forward?

Um, my husband and I previously did go through a debt-free journey um, to the point where we paid our house off and everything. Um, we recently sold that house back in April and bought what I thought was our forever home.

And so, now I just kind of feel the weight of like being now like stuck in another mortgage again and we have two kids and just like what do I now do for retirement? I I just have a lot of questions, basically.

I'm sorry.

It sounds like you didn't see this coming.

Um, I didn't. I mean, did I know that we were you know, perfect? Absolutely not.

Um, however, I am just never thought this was something that would happen. Mhm. Okay.

Well, the hard part about what you're going through is uh a friend of mine that does divorce recovery counseling says that a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction.

And I can hear in your voice

that your heart is broken. And um, when

my heart is broken, I don't function as well.

Mhm. And yet you are going to have to

and real clear business decisions with math.

Not with emotion. Okay? Yeah. And so, words like forever house are no longer part of the vocabulary. Instead, it's just a house

that has a mortgage and is a problem.

Mhm. So, what's going to be what's going to happen to the house in this divorce?

Um, and you're debt-free except for that.

Yes, sir. Good. And how much money do we have in 401ks and so on?

Um, I don't know. He handled most of it.

I do know what I have in my like 403b at my job. It's like roughly 85,000, but we had like a

separate Roth IRA, um, Mhm. actually I think two

separate Roths, um, And and who's handling those? Were those with a a SmartVestor Pro?

If I'm being honest, Dave, I don't know.

Like I said, he he kind of cuz I don't really understand the stock market and all that stuff and so I was like, "Okay, you got it." And I kind of let him handle that part. I I do think he did reach out to someone, but I'm not like 100% certain. Okay.

Have you talked to an attorney yet?

Um, no. I was In the 2 months before, I was

really just like trying to do everything I could to fight for our marriage and um, I So, the serving was not a surprise.

Okay. Well, the serving wasn't necessarily a surprise, but in terms of like cuz everything happened so quickly. From the moment he served me the papers, I was >> he living?

He he still lives here at the house.

Well, that's weird. You guys have I >> guys have kids? Yeah, two.

How old are they? >> Yeah, I have a I have a 4-year-old son and 13-month-old daughter. She's currently 1 month old. All right, here's what here's what you have to do in this situation.

Knowledge is power.

And when you're in trauma in a traumatic or dramatic situation, facts are your

friends. And so, you will as you gather more and more facts about what this is going to look like 3 years from now, it's going to help you um, process the emotion. The emotion is quadrupled.

The broken heart and the you know, when you start talking about your babies, you start crying. That's normal.

That that's made that's four times worse because you have no idea how this is going to turn out cuz you don't know anything about the money.

And so, the you need to meet with a lawyer tomorrow and start learning in the state of Texas

what the wife is going to get.

And you're going to be pleasantly surprised that it's a lot.

But does it matter that like I've been the breadwinner the majority of the time? Yes. >> I've never How long have you been married?

Um, 7 years. It'll be 8 years in March. But And um, and so, well, I don't know in the state of Texas what your alimony laws are going to be. It's possible that if you made a lot more than he did, you might be due for alimony to him.

But you need to know these facts. I don't know them and you get that from an attorney. Mhm. And and then you uh grab Mr. I served you with papers and go, "Okay, where is the information on all of our accounts? I need it for my attorney."

And he needs to tell you where the accounts are and what the account numbers are and print off the pages and hand them to you.

And if he doesn't, say, "My attorney is going to make you do this if you don't do it."

Okay? Because you need to gather up the facts. I don't know if you're sitting on a million dollars.

I don't know if you're sitting on a $50,000.

How much equity is in this house when you sell it cuz you're not going to be able to keep it.

Yeah. Um, I mean, when we sold our house, it'd be paid off completely. Um, we put a large chunk of that down on this house. >> much money are we talking about?

So, we put 250,000 down there and then

the mortgage that I have is 400,000.

Yeah. Okay. So, you're going to sell the house and put $250,000 on the table, of

which you will get at least half.

Okay. To start your new life with.

And what does he make a year? Do you have any idea?

Yeah, probably about mhm, 60

>> Okay. to 70,000. >> He's going to be paying child support out of that.

In 100% of the states, 100% of the time.

Okay? If they're his kids, Yeah. Okay. And so, it's pretty simple.

So, these types of facts, then you go, "Okay." You You can start to project into the future what your new life looks like, and that is a very cold and calculated, non-dramatic, non-emotional thing, but it helps you then to stay in the moment in a highly emotional situation.

Cuz if you're not highly emotional where you're sitting right now, you'd be weird.

Yeah. Okay. So, you have permission to cry. You have You have permission to rage. You have permission to, when your children's names come up, for your uh stomach to go in your throat because of what this means to them.

And you have permission to make decisions very rapidly for Mr. I'm going to serve you papers to move out.

Like now.

Okay. We either is or we isn't.

We isn't playing house when there's divorce papers on the table. And so, get your attorney's involvement in all of that. And honey, you need an attorney by the end of Friday afternoon.

If you don't have one, this is now on you.

This is how you've got to deal with it.

And I'm not picking a fight. You didn't pick the fight. The fight came to your door.

Literally, it They knocked on the front door and gave you papers. I mean, it really did come to your door. And so, yeah, you've going to have to deal with this. And facts are your friends. You're going to feel a lot less out of control and chaotic the more you understand and know about your what how this is likely going to shake out.

[Music]

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[Music]

Ray is with us in Miami. Hey Ray, what's

up?

Hey, thank you very much for taking my call. Um I'm having kind of like a midlife crisis purchase. I'm interested in buying a new Bronco, and so, I needed to get some advice.

Would it be more wise to pay it off in cash, or should I finance it and invest

that 50K into the market to try to make a profit?

I have met zero millionaires that became millionaires borrowing money on a car and investing it.

So, no, I would pay cash for it or wouldn't do it.

Okay. Because it's going to go down in value like a rock.

The new Broncos are very cool, too, by the way. The I particularly like the new Raptor Broncos. They're sharp.

Yes. So, how much money do you have saved?

Uh currently, I have about 120,000 saved. What's your net worth?

My net worth is about 700,000. Okay.

We teach folks not to buy a brand new car until they've got a net worth of at least a million because new cars lose so much value. So, I'd buy a 1-year-old or a slightly used, you know, 10,000 mile or something. Same year model. Anyway, let someone else take the butt-kicking on the depreciation of the first year, um and pay cash for it.

And if you're going to do that, that's the only way I would buy the car. And um it Like I said, it's cool car. I don't have a problem with that. Uh and it should also be less than 50 per All of your vehicles added together. Anything with wheels and motors should be less than 50% of your annual income.

Otherwise, you have too much invested in things going down in value. But I'm guessing that you probably make over 100, and I'm guessing you have the cash to be able to do this. You told us you did. And um so, if you buy a um like a 1-year-old or a 10 10,000 mile or 5,000 mile one, um you you probably are going to save 10 or 15,000 bucks, for real.

And it'll drop 10% when you drive it off the lot. So, just look for one that's barely used, and you'll get a discount. >> Yeah, cuz guys, I mean, new cars are the worst thing we buy in terms of loss in value.

Or in some cases, $20,000.

Blump blump. Yeah. Just each one of those blump blumps, right there. I mean, that's It's a lot of money. And you can afford to do that if you've got a million dollars, and you're paying cash for it and all that, that's fine. I've done it. I don't I'm not mad about it, but you know, you can't do You can't go buy a In his case, he's buying a $50,000 car, he said.

Um and you can't do that if you're making $50,000 a year and then figure out, "Well, I don't know why I can't get ahead." It's cuz you've got all your money invested thing in things that are going down in value. And then you regret it, but you can't sell it cuz now you're 10,000 underwater on it, and now you got a new problem on your hands. Exactly.

So, Ray, I think you're in a position to buy that car. Uh and I I I think I would advise buying the car cuz it's something you want, and you've worked real hard to get there. Um but I'm going to pay cash, and I'm going to buy a slightly used unless I have a net worth of a million dollars. That would be the only adjustments to the advice. Tyler is in Salt Lake City. Hi Tyler, what's up?

Hey, how's it going? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Hey. So, my my wife and I, we

accidentally fell into some untaxed freelance work. My my wife, she she's a nanny. Um she was doing it just as a side gig to make some extra money, and the family that she was working for uh asked her to work full-time. So, she's been working for them almost full-time, just kind of under the table, paid through Venmo. Um hasn't paid any taxes

on it, and I kind of fell into the same situation. There was a startup car detailing business. It was, you know, a couple weekends here and there, and and now it's, you know, you know, 50-hour weeks. And we've finally been able to get ahead. We're working on paying off our credit cards and everything like that. But the issue is is that, you know, even though we're getting ahead on our debt, we're not paying any taxes. And it's I I'm scared

of the repercussions of what that might entail. And I don't I like I want to get

out of it. I I don't know if I want to leave my job and just find something that pays taxes, or >> a big deal. All you got to do is just start paying your taxes.

It's not a big deal. >> we've been thinking everything every dollar we make into paying off our debt and and fixing >> you're not because you've not been paying your taxes. And that's You're You're You're right. You should be scared about that. You need to be paying your taxes, and with what's left over after you pay taxes, then you work your household budget and pay off your debts.

But and uh I mean, everything we we've been trying to pay off the credit cards. Our cars have a bunch of deferred maintenance that we've just been trying to get caught up on. >> you're going to talk me into telling you to not pay taxes?

No, no, not at all. >> Okay, then quit arguing with me.

Okay, you got to pay taxes, man.

>> So, starting today, 30 cents of every dollar goes into a savings account to pay for taxes, and you can log on to the IRS website and do your quarterly estimated payments to get ahead of it instead of hoping at the end of the year that you did it. >> Yeah, if you do your quarterly estimated payments of profit on your businesses, so, on if you're running a detailing business, open Make sure you have a separate checking account for your business. Put all of your income and her income, for that matter, into that business account.

And then remove any deductible business expenses, cost of doing business, a real

business expense. Like if you buy a pressure washer, or you buy soap, or you buy whatever, those are deductible items in your profit and loss statement. Then what's left in that account after you've done your expenses is profit. When you get ready to bring some of that profit home, we recommend setting aside 25 to 30% of that for your

quarterly tax estimates. Your estimated quarterly is what they're called. Okay? And so, just So, if you're going to bring $10,000 out of that account, set aside 2,500 in a separate account just to pay

your quarterly taxes. And then once a quarter, you're supposed to fill out this very simple little form, which is your income minus your expenses equals your profit. That will then be calculated and create your tax bill for that quarter, and you'll have the money for the tax bill because you will have set aside 25 to 30% of the money as you

pull it out of the business account to bring it home. Is that all logical?

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so we're going to reduce the cash that you have to work your goals.

Your goals are getting out out debt, deferred maintenance on the vehicles, and those kinds of things, but we're also going to keep you out of jail.

Which is preferable.

Yeah, very very much. Yeah. So, I'd get in touch with a tax pro to help you guys with this too. Your life got complicated and it's time to seek the help of a pro.

So, you can go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro and get in touch with the one that we trust to help you walk through this and do it the right way. Let me give you clarity on that cuz I don't want to just leave drama out there hanging in the air, okay? The clarity is it is not illegal in the United States to not pay your taxes. It is a criminal act to not file your

tax return.

Okay? >> Okay. That's where you're breaking down.

So, you file the tax return. Oh, and you're going to pay your taxes because the penalties and the interest are ridiculous if you don't pay them on time. I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I you know, it's going to be a struggle to pay the taxes in general cuz we haven't been setting money aside, but I know if I don't pay them, it's just going to get upside down in a situation that I'll never be able to catch up on.

>> Exactly.

And we we don't need that. You know, it's it's going to reverse all the good that you've done with the cash.

And so, and then some. So, yeah,

plus it's emotionally hanging over your head. Cuz you know in the back of your head this is this is the monster in the closet. One of these days it's going to kick the door down.

And you just don't want that. So, let's get out in front of this, get it all squared around, and then with what's left, we'll start working our working our our system again. And but that's that's definitely the way to go.

And so, you can't use the excuse of

I've got more important things to do with the money because you don't.

Um, the IRS when they come after you, they have uh, virtually unlimited power uh, in terms of for instance, if you don't pay your MasterCard and they sue you and they want to garnish your check, they have to go to court and execute on the judgment and get the judge's permission to garnish your check. If the IRS wants to garnish your check, they don't sue you.

They just garnish your check.

And you go you go to get your check at work one day and they go, "Surprise!

There's nothing there." And yeah, it's going to yeah, it's not fun. So, you don't want to be on the other side of the KGB, I mean the IRS.

And sidebar, wife and the family she's working for being a nanny, she's an employee. She needs to be W-2. They need to do this legally, by the books, and they need to pay their share of taxes, she pays her share, no more under the table stuff. That's not it could be 1099

if she is a running a nanny service.

Yeah, but she's full-time. >> if she's a singular one employee, if she

only has one person she nanny's for, then she's W-2, you're right, George.

So, that that family's getting off scot-free cuz they're not paying the matching portion that they're supposed to be paying.

[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys, I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them, and they don't know what to do next. Me too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly it. >> two options.

Take care of your dadgum family, man.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family, term life insurance.

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[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

Katie is in Wisconsin. Hi, Katie, how are you?

I'm doing good. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Well, um, my husband has a bit of a spending problem and he's gone through our personal savings, which was our um, emergency fund.

And I'm afraid he's going to start in on our money that we have saved for a down payment on a home.

And I wondered how I could protect that.

>> he have an out-of-control spending problem? What's he addicted to?

Just whatever he sees on the internet that he decides he has to have and he doesn't stop until he gets it. So, in other words, >> he's a child.

Uh, that's a good way to put it.

Yeah. How long has he been this way?

Um, as far as I can tell, it's his whole adult life. >> How long have you been married?

2 years.

Okay. And how old is he?

34. Okay. All right. Yeah. So, um, it sounds like you guys are going to enter marriage counseling or your marriage is going to end.

I have tried to make an appointment with a marriage counselor and I'm not sure.

I just wanted to protect it in the meantime so that it's not gone. I worked very hard for that down payment and

um, And he didn't. He stick. No, I

brought it into the marriage. Oh.

Okay. Yeah. Well, the only thing you could do on a temporary basis is just take it out of that account and go open another account in another bank and put it in your name only.

Yeah, I'm thinking about putting a cashier's check. No, no, you just open an account in another bank.

Doesn't have his name on it. He can't get to it.

Okay. And of course, he won't know where it is either unless you tell him.

Right. And I will bring this money back into the marriage once I determine that we have a marriage.

Right. And currently, we don't.

Cuz currently, you are trying to destroy our lives.

It's very disheartening. It is, yeah, it's heartbreaking. Yeah. It's it's awful. What's his response when you bring all this up?

Um, just to get angry at me and continue the argument, go down rabbit trails until we're both just like walking away like we didn't get anywhere.

Yeah. This is not going to end well if you guys don't get some help, okay?

No. If you get some help, it can end well. It can it can be worked through.

But you guys don't have the tools to navigate this, nor does he have the desire right now.

Okay. So, basically, he's misbehaving and when you bring it up, he starts gaslighting.

And you end up the you end up the problem rather than the solution.

Yeah, I'm an disobedient wife because I >> Oh, there we go. I love that one. Let's go Christianize our stupidity. Yeah.

That's just that's that's that's wonderful.

Yeah, what he is what he is is a horrible husband.

That's what he is. So, if we're going to go disobedient wife, we're going to start calling names, we can go there, but I don't think name-calling's going to help this.

I think the only thing you've got is you need to move the money into your name and you need to see a marriage counselor and hopefully, you can start getting some tools on how to deal with him to get him to the marriage counselor and the two of you can spend some time um, uh, learning how to navigate this together and and stay together. And I sure hope that's what works. I sure hope that's what happens.

Now, can he claim that I stole the money if I do that?

It's your money. You brought it into the marriage. And I didn't steal it, I moved it. I'm not hiding it from the judge and

I'm not hiding it from the attorney, I'm hiding it from the guy who's out of control. And you're not even spending it. And by the way, it's not it's your it's the couple's money, but the judge will determine if you having brought it into the marriage makes it subject to be split in a divorce. So, a little tough to steal something that's yours.

Okay.

Okay, that's what I was worried about. So, You guys have debt?

Uh, no, except for orthodontist payment.

Okay, I would freeze your credit cuz my fear is this guy starts taking out debt and your name's attached to it.

Okay, how do you freeze your credit?

Jump on the credit bureau sites.

Um, uh, and uh, they they they each have there's three of them, they each have a place to uh, do a freeze. And I would do them directly on the sites, I would not do them through some kind of a service. Like go onto Experian's website, TransUnion's website. >> TRW, that's the three. Okay. Yeah, Experian, TransUnion, TRW. Just jump on their site and do a freeze. Takes about 10 minutes. And um, it keeps anyone from borrowing money in your name if they check their

credit bureau report.

If they don't check it, then you've got a different kind of identity theft, but I'm not putting identity theft past this guy at this stage. >> Once he runs out of savings, >> is you can you can undo every bit of this and have a combined transparent, healthy, clear, wonderful

marriage once you get some healing in the situation.

Okay? Okay. So, let's pretend that you called us up and you said, "Hey, my husband has spent $15,000 on cocaine

in the past 4 months." All right? Mhm. The advice we would give you is exactly the same advice we just gave you.

Okay. That makes sense. That he has to have some help for his problem. Your marriage is in jeopardy, so you have to have some help for your marriage, and in the meantime, you have to protect yourself from someone who's misbehaving financially.

Okay? Okay. And yeah, that's what you've got to do here. And again, I'm not doing this to pre- pick a fight with him.

That's not the point. On the contrary, I'm trying to make all kinds of suggestions that present a situation where healing can occur.

But if he persists on this, and this is the only way he's willing to live his life, and anytime you question his spending everything you make and then some, he yells you're a disobedient wife, if that's if that's the only position this guy has, you're not going to be married in 2 years.

It it you'll be done.

Uh cuz sane people don't stay in situations like that.

Um and you know, it's just that that's just cray-cray. And you don't stay there. So, Chase is in South Carolina. Hey, Chase, how are you? Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh so, I am 21. Uh I'm in baby step two

and I have a mortgage. Have a wife, a son, and another son due in 2 weeks.

Yay! Um yeah. Uh I know we want to move

uh in the future, uh obviously after baby step three and four are, you know, ordered. Um and uh some of my family is recommending that whenever we do move, that we keep our current home, which will carry a mortgage, and rent it while having a mortgage on our new home down the road. Um and I know Well, that's sweet, but they're broke, and we don't take financial advice from broke people.

Right, yeah. >> Even if they're in our family, especially if they're in our family.

Right, yeah.

Um No, that's a bad idea, Chase.

It's a bad idea.

So, and I'm right on board with you, and I've argued the same thing to You don't have to argue. It's your house.

Yes, sir. Is it in your name?

>> Yes. Oh, absolutely. You and your wife own the house, right?

Well, yeah, it's just my name is on the on the deed. Yes, sir. >> whoever this is, your mom or your dad or her mom or her dad, just tell them, "Thank you for your input. We've decided to go a different direction." I guess I'd just like to prove them wrong in the name of >> You can't.

The way you prove them wrong is you go become very wealthy doing the right things, and then they look over and go, "Well, I guess Chase was right after all." Right. Yes, sir.

Outside of risk, is there cuz obviously you say people that do these things don't calculate for risk? Yeah, exactly.

>> of risk, what are what are the what are the kind of calculations and numbers I can expect to be like, okay, that doesn't make sense? You're still trying to convince someone else.

You're already convinced.

All I've got to convince you to do is be a man and make your own decisions, and just smile and say, "I've decided to do otherwise." It's risk. It's exactly what it is. And you don't need to take on that risk. You're 21, you got a marriage and two little babies. Besides that, it doesn't even matter today. We're not even talking about this today. This is all theory over Thanksgiving dinner. Arguing with broke people over in the family over Thanksgiving dinner about what you might do 5 years from now.

Bullcrap. Just sell the house when you get ready to sell it. It's got your house. Let them be upset. And they're not You don't get a vote.

You You can be upset about not having a vote. I mean, sorry. I mean, George drives a car I don't agree with, but I still like George.

>> friends. We're still friends. >> He's working today. I don't get a vote on what car he drives. I can just abuse him about it.

[Music]

[Music]

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Ariel in Califor- California.

My husband and I live in a joint family home with our two kids, my father-in-law, mother-in-law, and sister-in-law. The house we live in is in both my husband's and his father's name. My father-in-law gambles and plays lottery on a regular basis. He's 58 with no savings. He works at a gas station and makes 60,000 annually. He has 50,000

in credit card debt, $20,000 on a car.

We owe around 50,000 on the house. My husband wants to pay off his father's credit card debt so we don't have to worry about losing the house to pay his father's debts when he passes. My husband and I are debt-free other than the house. Would this be a wise thing to do?

I haven't seen a wise thing in this whole story yet.

This is a nightmare.

Oh my goodness. Oh, Ariel, you guys are not going to do what you are going to have to do, but you're going to tell you're forced to do what you should do, which is not have been in this in the first place.

And the only way out of it, of course, is to sell the house and everybody take their money and go to their corner.

But as long as you're attached at the hip to people who are misbehaving with money, you're going to be affected by them.

And that's what you guys signed up for in this ridiculous situation. The old woman in the shoe here.

And it's just kids are everywhere.

People are everywhere.

Sisters and brothers are everywhere.

This is a nightmare.

And so, well, I'm sorry. Now, question for you, Dave. If if the father dies, the father-in-law, the credit card debt is unsecured debt, but he's his name's on the mortgage. Would they come after His name's on the not the mortgage. The mortgage doesn't matter. His name's on the deed. Yeah. That's what matters.

>> So, could they come after them for the >> Sure. credit card debt? No, not the individual people, but they can put a lien on the house. That's what will happen. >> Absolutely. Cuz when you die, what you own, the father-in-law in this case, he owns part of the house, stands good for what you owe, his credit card debt due to his gambling habit.

And by the way, this is not going to get better cuz this guy's not going to change.

So, if you pay off his credit card debt, you know what he's going to do?

In a month, he's going to have some credit card debt. >> He gets a clean slate and goes back into debt. >> Sure. Yeah. And there's nothing you can do to stop him.

So, you you know, no, your husband's wrong. Paying off the debt does not help. Uh you guys ought to at a minimum, you need to get the mortgage paid off and then build as much wealth as you can possibly build, and make sure that there is a will involved that upon uh either of them's death,

uh you guys get the house.

And you then there's some provision for the remaining spouse, the father-in-law or the mother-in-law.

Um And then sister-in-law got thrown in there somewhere. Well, sister-in-law's not not one of the owners there. Yeah, she's just living there. Yeah, she's just hanging out.

So, but at some point, this has to be cleared up, and uh but no, you don't pay off his debt cuz he's going to run it back up.

So, what would I actually, if I loved all of you, the parents and you, what would I tell you to do? The best thing for you for 10 years from today, how does this turn out the best? Put the house on the market and sell it and go to your corner.

Everyone gets their own place. Everybody gets their own place, gets their own money and you go figure it out. Well, you don't understand. Prices in California make people do stupid things.

Yes, I do understand.

But that doesn't mean, you know, there's no excuse for stupidity even in California.

So, um, you just still have to deal with what you got to deal with. Sorry. Well, then it's Well, Dave, you don't understand my culture. In my culture, we all live together and misbehave together. >> Stupid is not a culture.

This is stupid. This is a stupid transaction. It's set up for failure.

There's no way this turns out. This is going to go to ashes. There's no way this turns out. It's going to turn out bad for everyone involved.

No one's going to end up liking each other. No one's going to end up with a financial blessing from this. No one's going to come away going, "Oh, that's the smartest financial move I ever made." That will Those words are never going to be uttered over this deal.

It's not where it's going. And so, you know, that that's the problem. And so, there's no reason good enough to enter into something this stupid and that's harmful. I And And ignore all of the signs.

So, yeah, the only one to see And of course, your husband thinks nothing's wrong cuz he grew up with his dad.

And he thinks his dad's normal.

And yeah, he works at a gas station. He makes 60,000 bucks and he runs up $50,000 in credit card debt buying lottery tickets at the gas station where he works. >> a different job where he's not doesn't have access to lottery tickets so easily. Spending all of his paychecks there. Yeah, or maybe, I don't know, grow up and be a normal person instead of doing stupid stuff. But yeah, I mean, it's just Oh gosh, so harsh.

So harsh. It's not going to go well, Ariel, for you and your family because you're not going to deal with it. Your husband's not going to deal with it. He doesn't have the backbone to stand up to his parents to split this thing up and you guys are going to end up in the soup before this is over.

And then you're going to be calling in here with a great story that ain't a great story. Sarah's in Montana. Hi, Sarah, what's up?

Hey, guys.

Um, so my question is how do I reinvent

myself after losing my dream job? Um, a

little bit of background, I was a county prosecutor. I happened to fail the bar

and now I'm kind of feeling lost.

Well, you can take the bar more than once.

Yes. So, I don't know whether or not I

should reinvent myself in another area of law that is a higher paying job rather than Well, you got to pass the bar either way.

Yes.

Okay. So, I'm already scheduled to take it in February. >> Oh, good. Okay. >> don't know Yeah, I just don't know what to do. >> prosecutor your dream job when you could make eight times that doing something else in law?

Uh, my dad was a um, career long law enforcement officer.

I've also had some um,

things in my past that I've been a victim of abuse as well and so, I had

this dream of working with special victims. So, you saw it as a crusade, not a dream job.

Cuz financially, it's anything but a dream job. Agreed?

Agreed. >> It's a cru- It's a crusader's dream job, though. And that's cool. I like that.

>> Yeah.

Yeah, I just don't know whether or not I should take this time um, and reinvent myself in another area that will make more money. Um, just to pay down some of the debt from law school. How much debt have you got from law school?

Um, law school loans alone are about 110

and then I do have some other things on top of that. Total >> way you're using your language, you're single.

Uh, yes. Okay. How old are you?

28. Okay.

Well, Sarah, you're smart. Dumb people don't get to where you are.

Okay? You don't They don't complete law school. They don't land in a county prosecutor's position. They're not scheduled to take the bar for the second time. That You know, you you have

good thinking skills.

And so, you you know, all you're wanting us to confirm is what you already know and that is is that I don't think I I think you're over dramatizing it saying to reinvent yourself. I think there's a part of yourself that just becomes an excellent defense attorney and protects victims.

Right? Mhm. Or an excellent um,

prosecutor of some kind later on. Um, or whatever. You don't have to go into some obscure corner of the law that doesn't involve crusading. There's all kinds of ways you can crusade within the law. And county prosecutor's office just one place.

So, it's not reinventing yourself. It's just saying there's other options to apply my passion and my intellect where

I can make enough money to get this mess cleaned up and then I've got more options when I don't have the bills anymore. So, yeah, take 5 years and go go be somebody, make 200 grand and knock this crap out. And then if you want to uh, maybe maybe you know, uh, I don't know. There's a lot of different ways you could do what you're doing as you know.

Um, and and I I don't think it's inconsistent with who you are. I don't think it's reinventing yourself. I think it's just another version of your current self.

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Michelle is in Colorado. Hi, Michelle, how are you?

Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, first of all, thank you so much for taking my call. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Um, the the short the short of my question is um, my husband and I are in $205,000 of

debt. Where do we start to get ourselves

out of this? What kind of debt?

So, we have significant student loan debt. We do have two car loans, medical How much is the student loan debt?

164,000.

Okay. And how much are the car debts?

Uh, the cars are just under 17. Each?

No, in total. Okay. What is What is car number one?

Car number one is mine. It's a Nissan

Rogue. >> What's owed on that?

I'm sorry. What is owed on the Rogue?

The balance right now is $12,196.65.

Perfect. And so, the other car has $5,000 on it.

Approximately, yes. Okay. And what other debt other than the 164, 12, and 5?

Uh, we have medical debt which is worth

tw- um, just over 20,000 and then credit

card debt which is 4,500. Okay. Perfect.

Good for you. And what's your household income?

Our household income right now is

$86,399.04

approximately. Mhm. And what do you guys do for a living?

Uh, we both work in corrections. I am a

criminal justice case manager and my husband works in juvenile corrections.

Okay. And your degrees in

criminal justice? My Uh, well, my degree is in psychology with a minor in criminal justice.

Okay. Did you get your master's?

I did not. This is my bachelor's. Okay.

And what is all this debt from?

The The short answer is I used college

to go find myself and did not make smart

money choices when I was 19. Okay. So, you borrowed a lot of money for beer pong in addition to going to school. I got you. Okay. That happens. That happens. Lots of people do it. It's okay. And so, now you make $87,000 between the two of you and you got and the and you have a normal life except for the fact that you're deep in student loan debt. Wow.

Okay. >> Ish. Yeah, I mean, we So, Dave, to give

you a full picture, we are we're legally separated. We're working on reunification. We have an um, a 17-month-old daughter that we're trying to create a better life for and we just

we're in agreement that we need to tackle this. Our way Our ideas of tackling this are different.

What's What's his ideas?

Um, well, I I'll be honest, I don't quite know.

Anytime we try to have the financial conversation, I can't really get him to open up. He kind of shuts down. So, are you guys in marriage counseling trying to get back together?

We are meeting with our pastor, yes.

Okay, good. Very good.

Okay. Um,

Yeah, and so, it sounds

positive that that you're moving in a positive direction with your marriage, staying together. Does that Is that a fair statement?

Yes. >> Except for the separation part.

>> yes. Okay.

All right. So, when we come back together, part of our coming back together with the pastor's guidance, the counselor's guidance is to be in alignment on how we're going to tackle this cuz this is the uh hidden stress hanging over your household that's affecting your relationship.

And not having a plan that we're unified on how to deal with it is adding to the marriage trouble, if not causing the marriage trouble. Is that fair?

Absolutely. I mean, to the point that I So, I've been listening to you. I've known about you for a really long time. We are signed up for Financial Peace University with um a lady in our church.

>> Good. So, we're going to start that on Saturday. I just I'm not quite sure that he's fully on board and >> he didn't have to be. If he goes through the class, I'll get him. As long as he shows up. That's the important part. >> It's hard to go through that class. If you go to every single class, it's hard to go through that class. We're very convincing. Yeah, he'll he'll be um he'll be on board. If he you know, and what that if

I'm talking to him, I'm saying, "Hey, you don't agree with all this stuff and you guys are not getting along, but if you want to save your marriage, you've got to be unified and go to the class to at least both of you to agree to tell Dave Ramsey to jump off a cliff or both of you to agree to go this Ramsey plan is proven, we're going to work it." One of the two, but let's get aligned together cuz you guys have got to be unified on how we're going to attack this.

And when we turn on the lights and go, "Okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to do this this this and this. We're going to work extra. We're going to live on nothing. We're going to be on a budget. Beans and rice rice and beans. Um you know, we're we're going to sell the Rogue. We're going to do whatever." I mean, I don't care. We're going to cut up the credit cards, right?

And we're going to you know, we're going to make a list of these debts and we're going to live on nothing. We're going to pay them off smallest to largest and we're both aligned on that. Ready, set, go. Break the huddle. Go.

And when you do that together

um that's going to impact other things you're arguing about positively.

In other words, I've had thousands of notes, letters, and

individual conversations with people that went through Financial Peace University and said it saved our marriage and I'm like, "Why? I don't understand. It's It's about mutual funds and money." They were cuz it forced us to work together and when you agree on your spending, you agree on your fears.

You agree on your spending, you agree on your goals. You agree on what you value.

You agree on your priorities. And you're agreeing on every part of your life when you agree on your spending. It forces you to discuss every one of those stinking things and get aligned on it.

And when you do that, it can take a situation like you're in and and be a part of not the whole thing, but be a part of a real complete healing. But as

a psychologist, you know that the complete healing is a spiritual thing as your pastor knows and it's it's a relational thing and it's learning some skills to deal with each other in a better way than you've been dealing before.

Money's But the money's part of that.

So, yeah, you guys go to that class together, girl. You got it. You could do this. Dave, if I can ask you one more question? >> Sure. Um part of all of this is I I am the one

who makes $34,000 a year. I've always

had super big dreams for my career.

After having my daughter, the goal is to be a stay-at-home mom. I'm not sure that's realistic considering our debt.

Not realistic for a while.

Yeah, I think >> You made that choice when you signed up for 164 grand.

Yeah, and I have a feeling I know what you're going to say to my question. What are your thoughts on me pursuing my law degree?

I don't know where that came from other than criminal justice.

But um I would have thought you were going to say master's degree so you could open a practice and make $150,000 a year as a marriage counselor as a psychologist. That would make more sense than a law degree from where you started. But We've got a math problem here and on both sides >> to you can't get to any of that until But you can make more with your degree than you're making now. You just chose to work for the state.

But there's other things you can do today to make more and work your way through this. Then you got to decide, "Why are you If I want to be a stay-at-home mom, why do I want to have a law degree?" It's to so inconsistent.

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[Applause]

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Top questions people have about wills out there. How do I know if I need a trust or if my state is too complicated for an online will? Well, if your estate is north of a million dollars, you got to start talking about whether or not you need a an attorney to do the will.

Um but most people die without a will and that's silly because they didn't spend just a few dollars and get a quick online will. You need to do that immediately if you're an adult.

Uh what do I need to start my will online? Well, same stuff you do for any will. You need to figure out who you want to get your stuff, who you want to take care of your minor children, uh who do you want to make decisions if you're incapacitated, the health care power of attorney and so on. Um and uh why would I want an online will

versus a traditional one made by the lawyer? Uh ease and expense.

Um it's you know, online will's 50 to 75

bucks, 100 bucks, something like that.

You're going to spend four 500 bucks pretty easily with a lawyer and it's overkill if you don't have a bunch of stuff. And and and you got to go meet with a lawyer. You got to go through all this stuff. Online, you can just jump on and knock it out in a few minutes. One evening, you can have your will done.

And you need a will that is state specific to you, the state you currently live in.

If you did a will and you're living in Indiana, but now you're living in Texas, your will is not valid anymore.

Hello. Yeah, cuz the law is different from state to state on what witnesses are required, what notary public is required, what um

uh you know, what what you're allowed to do inside the will. The law changes from state to state.

And um pretty dramatically sometimes.

And so, you definitely have an update to your will. If something major has changed in your life, the number of times we have had the call here at Church where someone got divorced and did not change the beneficiary on their life insurance policy. That's a bad one. There's nothing you can do.

It's going to the ex. >> Going to It's going to who the beneficiary states. So, you got to get those things changed. >> it's hers now.

I forgot to change my will. So, my ex-wife, who I hate with a passion, got all my stuff. That was kind of Yeah, it was kind of lacking in diligence. Hello.

Yeah, yeah. So, you got to do this. You got to take care of business, right? Mary is in Arizona.

Hi, Mary.

Hi. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I love that. So, I'm calling because my

question is you're probably going to laugh at me or yell at me. It's kind of embarrassing. But how do I

use what I can from welfare, I'm currently on welfare, to get off welfare and um

get get in a better financial situation.

Um I might be going homeless pretty soon. Um and uh my situation just kind of sucks.

Mhm. I'm not going to laugh at you or yell at you. I'm I'm really thrilled that you called. Thank you.

Um >> Okay.

How old are you? So, um oldish uh Well, what's old? >> 40 40 um five. Well, I'm 65, so I don't know what that makes me, but okay.

Well, okay. So, basically um You're a baby. You're a baby child. Okay. Now, all right. Now, the uh all right. So, what have you been doing for work?

Um so, recently um because of my health um

I've and my aging mother's health, I'm

basically taking care of her. Um I'm her caregiver. She pays me.

Um and she doesn't have a lot. My income is only $300 a month. And that's it. I'm

currently on >> are you going to be homeless?

Um so, they currently um

the welfare I'm on is only housing. I'm not on food stamps anymore, praise God.

Um so, that's the only welfare I'm on is the housing. Um because of the big beautiful bill, they're kicking people off um and where I am, it's ran by the

city. So, the city has already informed

people um that 2026 is right around the

corner. >> They don't randomly take people off.

There was some kind of a qualification you didn't meet.

Right, because I'm not um disabled the way the disabled All right.

And so, you're you take care of your mom, but you don't live with your mom.

Correct. >> Why?

Um current Um okay. So, I don't live with my mother because she's staying with my sister. She lives with my sister, um, and my sister works,

um, and so I just I'm her care her

caregiver. And then when me between me and my sister, when my sister gets off work, um, I go home.

>> mom's sharing some of the social security check cuz she didn't have anything either, right?

Correct. She is So, what she does >> She pays me back back to your original question then. The core

answer to your overall problem

is income.

Right. Work. And I know get get get, um,

uh, What what You said you have been unable to work because of your health. What's wrong with you?

So, I am, um, I am disabled, but not

the disability doesn't qualify me to get

disability. What kind of disability do you have? What are you facing?

Uh, a lot of, uh, female problems that

keeps me from working and then also, um,

sugar issues.

Uh, and do we could deal with the sugar issues, um, you just have to get the right kind of employer.

I think you just told me you're obese, did you? No. You're not. Okay. No. Okay. Good.

All right. So, um, well, I don't, uh, with and I don't know how to probe deeper on that and I wouldn't probably wouldn't understand what I heard anyway cuz I'm not knowledgeable in that area. But the answer to your question is to find some

methodology to create an income.

Even given the limitations that you've got medically.

Right. Right. >> And if you're hiring, uh-huh, if you want to hire me, I'll take a job if you're willing to train me. Yeah.

That that's the that obviously not I mean the the point is we've got to you've got to figure out and we've got to help you figure out a way to create an income and that begins to solve your problem. And then, no kidding, Dave, but the bigger the income we can you can create, the faster these problems go away and the further they are in the rearview mirror.

Is that agreed? Correct. Yeah. >> So, this has been an ability to work, an

inability to work because of medical and other things that then your spirit got

kicked around and you start to feel like there's no hope, which makes you not

have any energy to move towards getting those jobs.

Well, correct. And then once I, um, once

I start getting an uh, a better income,

um, I'm going to get kicked off my housing.

>> You're already getting kicked off your housing. Yeah. So, we've got to go get a better The goal is to get enough income to cover your own house. And by the way, you you called to ask how I could get out of this housing.

Correct. Anyway. So, the the the good.

We got you kicked out of housing cuz you start making too much money. Means you're moving in the right direction. Great. Does your mom not qualify for Medicaid to get a caregiver?

Cuz either you need to be paid a living wage as a caregiver with some kind of self-directed attendant care or you need to find someone who takes over so that you can go to work. But this is not working out to make 300 bucks a month. You can't make 300 bucks a month and live. Correct. Correct. And so the only the only Well, what keeps me going is >> the way, she can't get help for 300 bucks a month anywhere else either.

Right. So, she doesn't have money, um, to do it the other way. So, I'm doing >> has She's going to have to you you know, you guys are going to have to help her get care while you go get a life. Right.

She is on, um, Medicaid and I did try

and go that route, but she they had told

us that she doesn't qualify. Yeah. Um, she would have to be more Well, your sister and you can work on that as a side issue, but the bottom line, George is right. You cannot spend 40 hours a week there making $300 a month and expect to have a life. That mathematically doesn't work, Mary.

Right. So, I did watch your baby steps and, um, They don't matter until you create an income. You can't do the baby steps on $2 an hour. That's literally what you're making right now.

Yeah. So, you've got to go create income. You have to go create income.

You have to go create income. That's the thing. So, you hang on. We will send you a couple of books to help you move in that direction, finding the work I'm wired to do and the, uh, proximity

principle. Both of those will help you.

That is what solves this whole thing.

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Stacy is in Tennessee. Hi, Stacy. How are you?

I'm doing well. How are y'all doing?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

Good. I'm fairly new, um, to following you all and I have about $3,000 in student loans with about $5,200 in

savings and I also have a wedding on the way. All right. When you getting married?

Um, this time next year. Cool. Cool.

What do you make a year? Yes.

I make $43,000, uh, gross. Okay. And you're having to pay for the wedding?

Yes, as of right now, we don't know if family will chip in, but we're hoping that they will. Okay. And so your fiance will chip in some and you'll chip in some.

Yes, he's currently out of work due to an injury, um, but as soon as he does as

he's able to work again, then yes, that is the case. Okay. Cool. Good. Good.

Good. All right.

How much is this wedding going to cost?

Uh, hopefully no more than $10,000. Um,

we're not really trying to have something huge and extravagant.

>> So, you're debt-free today. You can use that savings, knock out the student loans, build up an emergency fund and save up 10 grand by by 12 months from now, right?

Um, yes, I guess that that's my question if I should go ahead and and take care of the loans and just work towards building up or saving towards the wedding. Yeah, I mean, I want you to see your way to paying for the wedding cuz 10 grand's not unreasonable with what you're describing. Okay. Okay. >> And so, you said the student loan balance is 3,500, right?

Uh, 3,000. >> A 3,000. Okay. All right. So, if we say 10,000 for the wedding, 3,000 for the student loan, you need $13,000.

You have Yes. $5,200.

Yes. >> Okay. So, our real need is $8,000.

Okay. See what I'm doing?

5 + 8 >> Yes, I see that. 13. We got the wedding and we got the thing. And on top of that on top of that, George wants you to have an emergency fund and I do, too.

Uh, because stuff's going to happen like the car's going to break and all that kind of crap, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, we

need 13,000 in savings for those two things. We have 5,000, so we need eight.

And so $1,000 a month for eight months gets us there and we have 12 months, so then we would have a little bit to spare.

So, we need a goal we need a goal to be debt-free and have the wedding paid for and have some extra money of saving at least $1,000 a month, which is really tough on 43,000.

Yes, it is. >> Okay. And so, but also Bubba's going to have to get back to work. When's he back to work?

Um, the doctor said that he should be cleared by the end of this month. Good.

Good. >> What was he making? Yes.

Uh, he was making a little bit less, about 42,000. Okay.

So, you got 40, he's got 40, that's 80 to work with. And so if you put in 500 a month, he puts in 500 a month, you guys will be there, right?

Yes, and that's with taking care of the student loans now. Yep. I'd rather check take care of the student loans now. And but I'm doing that knowing that we also

get to do the wedding.

Because because we're both Yeah, cuz we're both going to save 500 bucks a month, $1,000 a month total and that gets us to $12,000 12 months from now.

Um, and that on top of the 5,000 that you Oh, wait a minute. Now you don't Now you got 2,000. So, now we're up to 14,000, but we only need 10 for the wedding, so that gives us four in the account when we get home from the honeymoon. That's peaceful. Breathe that in. Yes, you just gave me so much peace by that. You don't even know. That's exactly how it works. But now but now here's the trick, okay?

I you you can't go, "Oh, we we decide No, you didn't decide. You decided to save. Oh, we needed to No, you didn't.

You decided Not Don't tell me any excuses.

And get up there and go, "I put my wedding on a credit card cuz I didn't save my 500 bucks." Okay? Yeah. So, I

give you a game plan. Now you got to execute, kiddo. All right? And by the

way, are you stuck making 43,000? Could you take on an extra side hustle and told you >> could, too.

I'm actually working on, um, I'm doing DoorDash and I'm working on working doing the driving service for Walmart, uh, trying to do in between cuz I do ministry work. Um, so I have to travel quite a bit for ministry. Um, but the in between when I am in town, I'm working on doing those two. Good. Is the ministry a paid position or a volunteer

position?

It It is paid. I'm at the headquarters for the nonprofit, which is the ministry. Okay. >> That's your 43 grand.

Yes, that's correct. >> Oh, that's your job. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I misunderstood. >> Yes. Yes. Okay. And then in addition to that, you're doing DoorDash. Okay.

Yes, in addition. Yeah, that I cannot do DoorDash full time. >> Okay. Cool. Cool. And what's your fiance do for a living?

Um he works in the pharmacy industry right now, but he's working on actually going towards IT.

Good. Good. So, hey, that These are good answers because you've got you've got a trajectory that's going to cause you to guys to make more, save more, be able to

give more, be able to be more comfortable in the ministry role because you're going to be under control with your money flow, okay?

Yes. Yes. Thank you so much.

>> Thank you. Hang on. I'm going to send you a copy of a book called The Total Money Makeover as our wedding gift in advance of this paid for $10,000

wedding. She had just spoke that over you. You heard that, right? All right.

Adam's in Texas. What's up, Adam?

Hey Dave, how you doing today? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Yeah, so I am 30 years old, have a wife

and one beautiful daughter.

I've been in the insurance industry for just under 10 years now. I'm property and casualty, and I've built my book of business up from $0 to just over

$640,000 in that time. The company I work at is

now bringing in equity partners, which is changing the structure of our business pretty dramatically. In this buyout, I'm losing ownership of my book of business, but in exchange, I'm being paid two times its value, which equates to just under $1.3 million. Um My

question today is should I pay off our mortgage and any remaining debt and invest and save the rest of it? Um or should I keep the mortgage and use that money for additional investments? Okay.

What happens to your career when all this happens?

Um career as far as I'm planning is going to stay the same. My commission structure is changing to something that's a bit more industry standard. So, you know, I'll I'll take a a small hit to what I'm taking home right now cuz I'm going from a 1099 to a W-2.

Um but, you know, that that's a small adjustment in the in the wake of things.

But you no longer have equity position because you're being bought out. That's correct. >> So, any growth any growth that occurs from this point forward, you get none of it.

I'll still get you know, the extra commission. >> you get commission, but you don't get to build a book of business again.

Correct. Will you miss that?

Yeah, absolutely.

That That's still a bit shocking to deal with.

But, you know, it's kind of the Are you under a non-compete? >> I'm trying to ride the wave and be great. Yes, I will be. For how long?

We haven't received final terms. I believe it's going to be between three to five years depending on the person.

That would be normal. Yeah. Okay. Yes.

Yeah. All right.

Um Cuz a lot of people that I mean, it sounds like this was forced upon you.

The language you're using doesn't sound like you sought this out. So, the answer to your question is yes, I would pay off your mortgage and yes, I pay off all my debt. >> Okay. Because I don't find people that say, "Oh, I became a millionaire by borrowing on my house to invest." Right. That's not what I find. The millionaires that we talked to go, "I got out of debt." And so, what do you owe on your home?

Currently, we owe 391,000.

>> Perfect. What other debt do you have?

Just a car. Okay. So, 450 clears you out

of 1.3, right?

Yes. >> Okay. And then what I would do is bucket a You're an analytical, careful, wise,

frugal person. I would bucket a number that is uncomfortable to you, but very comfortable to your wife to spend on fun.

Okay. Like go on the ridiculous trip or

buy her a much better car cuz her car sucks or whatever, right? I don't care what it is, but find something that comes under the heading of fun or some things. >> on your brow when you hear the number. >> Yeah, some things. >> So, spend, save, give. Those are the only three things you can do with money, and I would do all three with the money that's left over once you pay off the debt. Congratulations. Fun problem to have.

Overnight millionaire just like that from all his hard work.

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Our scripture today, 2 Corinthians 12:9.

My grace is sufficient for you. My power is made perfect in weakness.

Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on me.

Simon Sinek said, "The goal is not to be perfect by the end. The goal is to be better today." Chris is with us in Florida. Hi Chris, how are you?

Hi Dave, thanks for taking my call. I have an investment question.

Um for the past five years, I've been building one spec house a year.

And I've taken my profits over the past five years and built myself a a nice house. I was able to buy the house next to me for cash. Um

Everything out of pocket, everything's paid for, got myself out of debt. Good.

And I've got However, the house I bought, I I was out of money and it needed remodeling. So, I I took out a loan on that house to get it remodeled.

Oh, so you're not out of >> rented as rent.

Right. Now I'm back into debt.

However, I'm I'm clearing 1,100 a month off of that house.

But all of my money has been spent, and I want to continue building spec houses.

Now, my personal house is paid off.

My question is should I take a loan out on my personal house to continue my spec houses?

Okay. Um Is this what you do for a living?

No, I do this on the side. I do this on the weekends and after work at night.

I got you. And what what price range your homes are you building?

They're selling for 250.

Okay. >> Cost me around 120 to build. Okay. And

what's your household income?

Personally, I'm at 100,000 without my spec houses. You add that in, I'm around 200,000.

My job, I make about 100. >> And why do you have no money all of a sudden? Cuz you put it in these two houses. >> keep reinvesting and it gets locked up in the houses. You're You're not making 200,000. >> Yes. Because you're not making You're doing one spec a house a year.

And >> I'm making 100,000 a year off of spec house.

Okay. Um I just felt like there should be more profits sitting around versus you being broke. Well, then what's what's the rental house worth? Well, Okay. Rental house is I'm guessing it's going to appraise for 250 to 300. Mhm.

Um my personal house will probably appraise from 350 to 4. Mhm.

So, I've only been doing this for five years. I'm 56, and I came out of a divorce at 50. Yeah.

I came out of that with my truck, my dog, and $100,000. Okay. That's when I started doing this. Okay.

But it it sounds like you know, now here's the thing. You understand, okay?

And you know this.

I think you've experienced it. Um that

when you have a spec house, meaning you're speculating, you're have an inventory item that has no debt on it, you interact with a potential buyer completely different than if you're paying construction loan payments on that house.

Mhm. You You don't have to put up with a crazy buyer.

Right. You can and you don't have to discount it because I'm stuck in it and the bank wants me to get the note cleared.

Exactly. You can just sit there and wait until I get the right buyer. And that's how you maximized your profits because you've not put everything at risk, and now you're getting ready to flip your model on its head and start taking on a bunch of risk, and it's going to change the way you interact in this. It's going to take a lot of joy out of it.

And so, no, I would not go this route. I

do think I grew up in the real estate and the building business, and I've owned real estate and done rehabs and built stuff my whole life.

And I do think I'm talking to a guy who actually knows how to do it. Most people that say they know how to do it, as you know, are full of crap.

But I think I'm actually talking to a guy that knows how to do this. I think you really know how to do it.

And so, that's going to change That's going to change my advice a little bit.

Okay. Okay. I would sell my rental if I were you, and I would build three spec houses.

You know, I agree with you business wise, but here's my problem.

Personal feelings come into play. This house is right next to mine.

I don't care. >> about who's going to buy it and what kind of neighbors I'm going to have. >> Well, you get to decide You get to decide that.

Sir? You get to decide that. You can't discriminate on sale based on race, creed, color, national origin, but you can discriminate based on based on jerk.

[Laughter] I'm serious. You can decide that. I just sold a house next door to me.

And I refuse and I you know, we had people looking at it and I'm like, "Nah, I don't think so." And we've got the sweetest young couple over there right now and we're they're going to be best friends. We're going to love We love them.

And you can just decide that. So, no, I I I don't think I'm trading that one issue for all of your peace. I think you can do two spec houses a year minimum and make 200,000 while you make 100,000 at work

with cash and be able to maximize your profits because you don't get in a bank pinch.

Yeah. I am talking to a guy who's never been in a bank pinch. If you have been, it's been a long time and you've forgotten how it feels.

Oh, I've been in a bank pinch, yeah. I hate those sons of a gun.

With a passion.

And I don't want to put you back at their mercy.

Yeah, I agree. I'm I'm out of it now.

>> Yeah. Why go back in the bear trap, man?

Not worth it. What's left on your debt on the rental?

Sir? What's left on the debt? The loan you took out? Uh I took out 100,000. I

put 60 in it and put 40 back.

So, you sell the rental, pay off the debt, you got some left over.

>> You got enough You got enough to do two You got enough to do spec two two specs.

Yeah, I I could probably squeeze out two if I sell that. >> That feels like it'd be worth it. Yeah, that's that's what I'm doing for sure. >> That's going to create some peace and get you out of debt. And then I'm never going back in. I'm okay being the tortoise rather than

the hare because every time I read the book, the tortoise wins.

It's people that get in a hurry that trip over their own feet.

Including me. That's how I went broke in my 20s. Cuz I got in a big hurry.

And I built a house of cards. I got rich quick, literally.

And it turns out the best way to get rich quick is get rich slow.

If you want to keep it. So, that that's best plan you can have. And that's Chris, you I I think you really do know how to do this and a lot of these guys have been watching Flip This House on TikTok and they don't know what they're really doing, but I think this guy's really doing it. >> Well, all of culture tells you to just go borrow against it, borrow against it, do the BRRR method, go do the next one, borrow against that.

That's how the wealthy do it. And they don't talk about it when it goes wrong. Not true. It's not how the wealthy do it.

>> proof, Dave, that's not how the wealthy do it. >> I mean, no. I mean, all of them we meet with, they don't tell us, you know, I I I stayed leveraged my whole life and and I lived in anxiety and oh, and I made well, but I got wealthy. That's not what they tell me.

They went, "Hey, we were kind of boring and we went slow and we paid for cash as we went." That's what they all tell us every time we interview them. Well, that's why they don't have the real estate course. It'd be a terrible course if you just went, "Well, pay cash, go slow." That's why I don't have one. It's a short That's why I haven't written a book on how to buy real estate.

It's short. Now, you broke down in Investing Essentials. We do this virtual event where you actually break down your real estate principles and it's fascinating, but the actual math behind it is save up, pay cash, and yeah, it's going to take you a little while to get that first one. And then there's this what's known as a cash on cash return on investment.

Hello. I mean, you know. So, yeah, Chris is in a position to do that. It's just choosing what do you want more?

And if I'm listening to his story, if I was in his shoes, I would want to build those specs more than I wanted that rental. Yeah. Well, it didn't sound like he wants to be a landlord. Business, he likes building the specs and selling them and making a profit with them.

>> who lives next door. He don't want cray-cray to move in next door. I don't blame him.

But this is a guy that doesn't like drama, so don't don't invite the banker into your living room. No, thank you.

You don't like drama, keep bankers out of your life. Uh they're not They're not good for the drama factor. They bother mess up everything. Yeah, Chris, I think you're really good at this and so I I think I would go build a couple houses a year with cash. And um you know, I bought a house uh there's a family here in our area uh

third generation. They're now on fourth gen. Gen four is now building houses.

But uh great grandpa bought a bunch of land out here when nobody was out here out in the country and now the country came to city done come to the country, you know, kind of thing. So, moved out here and uh they ended up with it and they've been developing residential lots for years and they built spec houses, expensive spec houses um with cash. And it's hilarious. You go into this million million and a half house and they go they go, "Well, you know, I I don't like the countertops in this one and I would like to have a different color in the living room." And they say, "Fine, you can do that after you move in." I love it.

They're not desperate. >> They're not They don't They don't do anything. They They won't change a thing. They They and they don't build custom cuz they don't want to put up with people.

That's amazing. >> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 50. Dwelling On Past Mistakes Won't Benefit Your Future Growth | January 13, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union

Studio, this is the Ramsay Show.882552.

88 8255225 is the number to jump in. I'm Ken Coleman alongside the fabulous, the incomparable Jade Warshaw and we're

going to team up. So uh she'll take lead on the money question. So obviously all the money questions but how about I'm

burned out. I don't have any life balance. We just did a recent uh uh survey and found out that that those are the two number one issues among professionals and those have financial ramifications. So we'll dive into some of those as well. Come one, come all.

Derek in Montana is gonna start us off today. Derek, how can we help?

>> Ken, Jade, it's great to be with you guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's going on today?

>> Uh, well, basically the the gist of it

is I'm trying to find out or figure out, if you will, if um maybe I should just file bankruptcy and and start all over.

>> Um, kind of got myself into into some

some pickles here. Okay, give us a

picture. What are you facing?

>> So, um, we, uh, uh, started a business,

my wife and I, um, started a business here local where we're at. Um, was going

okay. And um then we decided to try to

enact or uh start up a a um something

for the community. Um and like a an

arcade and brought in some people to help us out. They had the games, we had the space, and um so we were putting

that together. Um we encountered some

issues with the the way things were operating. So, we thought we would branch out and get our own equipment and

things just have not turned out to uh come to fruition. So, >> what have you spent on getting this arcade up and running?

>> So, right now we're about 25,000 in debt on just the arcade.

>> Okay. And how long is this how long have you been in this business venture? Has it been a year, 6 months, more?

We are about a year and nine months.

>> Okay. And what's what's the issue? Is it people just aren't showing up? Is it the prices are high or too low, but when we raise them, it doesn't work out? Like what's the problem?

>> Yeah, people just have not showed up. Uh

so we were unaware of some of the um uh

startup cost from the bank uh to obtain the debt. And so when we went to go sign the papers, it was, "By the way, here's, you know, some additional um fees that need to get paid." And instead of going back to um underwrite the the the

additional fees to make sure that we were going to be able to to make it happen, I said, "I'm sure it'll be fine.

I can I can figure it out." >> Um and so that ended up chewing up all of our marketing and um advertising

budget. And so I kind of started out behind the behind the ball on it and tried to play catch-up the whole time and it just never happened.

>> How much was the the advertising and marketing budget? Like how much did you see yourself spending per month or whatever it was that this debt ate up

>> about 2,000 uh initially.

>> Are you in a hightraic area or kind of tucked away where nobody knows where you are? Uh, so the space is in a very hightraic

area.

>> Okay. >> Or was I I should say. So we closed down the location, moved out the games um to a new location. Hopefully that pays off.

Um, and then just reducing the overhead.

So for the last year, we have just dumped all of our personal income. Uh,

my wife's personal income. I'm self-employed, so I don't have any. um all of her W2 into maintaining and

keeping things afloat, trying to anyways. >> Well, you mean when you say her income, you mean um any kind of margin that you guys have above all your personal bills?

Then you're taking the surplus, for lack of a better word, and you're pouring that into the business. Is that what I'm understanding? >> Yes. >> Okay. How much is the equipment worth the all the games themselves?

>> If I were to sell it right now? Yeah.

Um, probably maybe 10, 12.

>> So, half.

>> Yeah, roughly. >> Can Can I ask a quick question before we keep going down that trail because I do want to keep going down that. Do you honestly now in your heart of hearts after you've seen how this has played out over the last uh o over 12 months,

the 2000 cuz here's where my mind goes, Ken. If you had a $2,000 a month ad

spend or marketing spend and that is now

eaten up in fees that you didn't know were going to be there, my first intuition would be like, well, there's nobody at the arcade. How can I go out and earn this money elsewhere so that we can get our ad spend up so that we can get people in the doors? Which leads me to ask, do you believe that even if you had spent that 2,000, you wouldn't have be a you wouldn't have been able to get those folks in the door? Is that what you're realizing? Or do you just not know?

I I don't know. Um I do believe that

with the ad spend and being able to put signage on the building and the things that we were not able to do, I think >> Oh, there's no sign on the building.

>> There's no sign on the building.

>> I couldn't get the signage. Not not appropriately. >> Well, but now see, I think we're now I think we're majoring on the minors.

>> Um >> I'm just trying to see if there's something here that's salvageable.

>> Yeah, the equipment. Now again, you may have a different take. I'm just sitting here listening. >> Well, there's no sign on the building, so nobody was gonna go up in there.

>> I know. But he's in a new location. He's not even in a hightraic location anymore. Correct.

>> So, we we put the games uh in a in a

separate business that has um traffic

that is separate in and of itself. Um

you know, bowling alley, restaurant type, you're renting them establishment.

>> You're renting them to these places.

We're doing what is a profit share. So I

now I'm just getting a cut off of whatever they make. >> Oh gosh. Okay. >> But you can't make a living on you cannot make a living on this. Yes or no?

>> No. That is that is my hope for this is that I we can just make enough to pay the payment for the debt for those games. >> And that's what I'm bringing back up. I think the question I want to come back to the question at hand that you asked.

Should you file bankruptcy? I don't think so. I think you can pay the 25 off.

What's your wife? >> Not just that 25. >> What's that? >> It's not just that 25. >> What's your total debt amount?

>> Just shy of 68,000.

>> 68,000.

>> Yes. >> All right. I I'll defer to Jade. I You know, this is not a viable business. So, yeah, at this point, if you can get your money back on those machines over time and pay this debt off >> and then shut it down, but you need a full-time job. I'll just throw that out there. >> Yeah, that I I agree with Ken. At the 25,000 I'm looking 25,000 in one year.

I'm thinking there's something that can be saved here possibly. But now what you've told me with the 68,000 I think that you need to, you know, cut your losses here. Yeah. >> Um what's your wife earn?

>> What's your wife's income? >> She she makes about 75 a year.

>> Okay. Now, this business debt, is that your your only debt or do you have other I'll call quote unquote personal debt to add to the pile? So, so the arcade is

roughly about 25 in debt. Um, I have my

other business that I was that was my main source of income. Um, and because

of the issues that we had with the arcade, I kind of took my focus in.

>> Okay, I'm going to cut you off because we're running out of time. If the total of your all debt altogether is 68,000,

like I I think that it is, uh, you need to pick up a full-time job yesterday, take your wife's income, and you're going to pay this off as quickly as possible. You're not going out to eat.

You're not doing anything. You're selling a car if you need to to clear this out very quickly.

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Let's go to Megan who's joining us now in Pittsburgh. Megan, how can we help today? >> Hi, thanks for having me.

>> Sure. >> So, I have a 401k loan and I'm not sure

how to proceed. Just given some

different options. Um, I just learned that I do have a cash out option. So, for example, the 401k is about 30,000.

Um, the loan is 15,000. Like, after all the math and everything, if I were to walk away from it and cash out my 401k, I would walk away with that loan being paid and they would cut me a check for $11,000. >> You don't want to do that. >> Jade, I want to make a smart decision.

>> Well, that's start there. I literally cut you off because I'll let Jade explain why, but you do not want to take this option. >> Well, number one, you've you've made you've made a mistake, which is okay. We all make mistakes, especially when we don't know better. When you took that loan pre-retirement, obviously, you were hit with a 10% penalty, and it it's going to affect your income taxes. And you unplugged the investment, right? You unplugged the growth that has been accumulating. Knowing that, let's not

turn around and do the same thing again and unplug the rest of the the investment just to get $11,000 back.

Okay? Let's solve the problem that we made on accident and let's solve it on purpose. So, if I were you, the $15,000 loan, I'd just pay it back. I'd pay it back. Because the thing with 401k loans is obviously they're tied to your employer and if for some reason you are

fired, that loan becomes due in and it's

got a time period on at that point.

Sometimes it's a year, sometimes it's more. So that's why I don't like these hanging around. And if you knew that, that might be why you're considering this. But I would not unplug uh the rest

of my growth to get out of this faster.

I'm sure there's some other fees around that. Um, so let's look at your income and let's look at what we can actually do to get this thing knocked out.

>> Sure. >> So, what is your income?

>> 140 household. >> Okay. And is this 401k loan? I'm guessing it's not your only debt. It sounds like you got up against it. So, tell me about your other debts.

>> Yeah. So, we do have some consumer debt.

It's due to um uh it was due to fertility treatments. >> Okay. Um, so just racked up really quickly and we have baby so that's great. Um, but racked up really quickly.

So we have some consumer debt. We're looking at about so 15k for the 401k loan about 15k in credit cards. That's

putting the medical stuff on it.

>> Um, we both have a car payment. Total on

the cars is 20. >> Tell me, broke break them down for me, the two. >> Yeah, we we both owe about 10 on each of our cars. >> Okay.

And that's it. >> Um, >> other than that, um, student loan debt, we're looking at about 800 a month.

>> What's the total >> balance on that? I think we're we're at

45 if I recall correctly.

>> Okay. Um, and is that it or is there more?

>> That's it. >> Okay. Um, the 140K, is that just you or

that's you and your husband combined?

>> Combined. >> Okay. Um, yeah. Congratulations on the

baby. We've got to get get through this.

And I think with the cars, yeah, you're likely it's best to just keep those and knock them out quickly. Um, but I would

You've got the 15,000 on the 401k and 15,000 or the credit. Are the credit cards is it one credit card or is it multiples? >> It's one. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm going to uh I would probably I'm thinking about Ramsay verse and I know that in the Ramsey verse there's certain things that we move to the top of the list. Things like IRS debt and a

401k loan. I'd probably move that right up there because of the implications on it. Um if you're in the chats and you disagree with me, you can let me know later, but um I'd probably get into that

pretty quickly. >> Do you have any equity on the cars?

>> Yeah, we do. Um, >> how much equity each car?

>> Yeah, the the last list the last thing we got from like Carvana or something. I can go to Kelly Blue Book later, but um

uh my car is worth about 15.

>> Um there's about 10 left on it >> and then and that's that's why cuz we were working on the cars first and I was like we might need to recircle.

>> Um 15 and my loan is about 10,000 and

then his is it's right about the same. I mean 14 15 and there's about 10 left on

it. >> Yeah. And the reason I asked those those questions is because if we can uh sell

one of the cars, you know, get a hoopy

uh for a for a short season. I I'm with

Jade because of the precarious nature of this 401k loan. I would want to put that 15k back in there. Um I really would. I

would probably since you have the since you have 15,000 on the credit cards and 15,000 on the 401k, I'd kind of view those as interchangeable. I mean, technically you should do smallest to largest. Um, how I don't even want to ask you how stable your job is, but the point is >> let's just say the point is >> it is stable. Okay, great.

>> Then let's do it. >> And I know the answer to the question, not not to cut you off there. So, if I were to leave, the payments would actually just come with me. it's not due immediately.

So, I have vetted some of those questions. >> Um, so it would just continue on, right, which isn't great, but like good to know. >> Yeah, it is good to know. Uh, but the the the goal here is for you to knock this out as quickly as possible, and that's going to that's going to take some sacrifice on you guys' end.

401k loan aside, the debt in total is a problem. And so, I'd be looking at ways that you can cut back your income.

>> Yeah, we're in every dollar. >> Okay, great. What are those car payments?

>> Car payments are

His is about 350. Let me look at my notes. And mine is 182.

>> Yeah. Uh yeah, I'd be looking in there

and saying, "Okay, what's our margin since you're in it?" Do you know off the top of your head what your margin is?

>> It's about a thousand a month.

>> Okay. So, the way I would look at this is I'd look at $1,000 a month and I go, "Oh my gosh, if I do it like this, it's going to take me five years, right? It's going to take me forever." So, I'd work I'd reverse engineer that and I do the math on that and say, "I want to be done with this in like 2 years." Like, no more than two years.

And then the equation becomes if it's 20, you know, $2,000 or $2,500, you have to then say, "Okay, how do we then go get this money?" I feel like that's a better way to attack this. That way, everything's on your terms based on it just kind of happening to you. You get to have real skin in the game and make make a plan for what you want to happen and then go out and make that happen.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

>> Fair enough. So, that's what I would do.

And I definitely would not take any of the options that you mentioned earlier uh that involve you clearing out the remainder of the 401k.

>> Yeah. Now, this is very doable. Now, it's not going to be fun. And I'm hinting around on the cars. I don't know if you're catching my hints with all these questions, but in you guys are in in a pretty rare situation when we get calls where people actually have some equity. And at this stage of the game, I wonder if it's not worth both of you selling your cars and buying two $5,000 cars. if if that's the equity situation,

if you can pay it off, if they're both worth that, um that'd be something I would look at because that's going to free up some monthly money >> and that gives you that urgency to go, okay, I want to get out of this quickly.

So, you know, if you've got equity in the cars, and I would double triple check all that, and you can get out of there and get walk away with some cash and pay cash for two cars, that's a

listen, that propels you. And Jade, you you could speak to this. That propels you into the intensity that I think you need to have to kind of go, I don't love the fact that we just got rid of our and I know it's an extreme situation.

>> It's you know what, you get to be extreme as you want to be. And you know, I I'll push people towards the extreme because at the end of the day, you're going to get stuff done faster. I was writing an article today for one of these outlets and I was saying how when Sam and I were getting out of debt, we did three very extreme things. Very extreme. We moved out of our our apartment, moved into a townhouse and got roommates. It took our rent from $1,200 a month to $600 a month. We sold

off, we were a two-car family. We sold one uh it was a 35 $34,000 H3 $435 a

month payment. Freed up $435 and we didn't get a beater. Instead, we just became a onecar family and then we sold

off all of the furniture that was part of our rooms to go loan and instead we bought an air mattress and slept on that. So very very extreme, but it's a

short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. And it's up to you how how bad you want to get out of it and how long you want that sacrifice to last. You got to go extreme if you want to get out of it quick. Scorched earth.

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All right, let's go to Providence, Rhode Island next. Mary joins us there. Mary,

how can we help?

>> Hi. Uh, I have a question. Um, so

they're putting in lowincome housing literally across the street from us, about 600 ft from our house.

>> We still owe 150 um in mortgage, but um

we got a really good deal on this house like 5 years ago um because it was a direct sale and we knew the folks that were selling it. We have some really really good neighbors.

My husband now just works 10 minutes from the house when he was before commuting about an hour and a half and I

have a three-year-old and a one-year-old and we're planning on having another.

So, we're just trying to figure out if we should move because if we move

anywhere, it's kind of we won't be able to afford it. like whatever we get on this house will likely be less and if we stay from what I read when section 8

goes in about the housing market um the

area loses about 40% of market value.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, let's take a deep breath. Okay. Because I I would have all those same concerns that you have legit concerns. Uh but we have to parcel out

the concerns versus the facts and see what the risk is. It's it this is all about mitigating risk, right?

>> Right. >> What are your neighbors saying? Is anybody else as informed as you are? Are they more informed? What do we know?

>> More informed. Some of us like, so we've gone to our town meetings. >> Okay. >> And basically the town voted no, but the

state came in and overrode us.

>> Okay. >> Um and said, "Too bad, you have to do it." And our neighbor has lived here like they're in their 60s and they both grew up in the neighborhood. So they don't want to leave.

>> Okay. >> Um >> what what is your house?

>> Everyone in our street.

>> Have you gotten some legit real estate comps?

>> Um so a street uh uh similar uh size to

us that was built so our house was built in 2013 and there's an older house that just sold for almost 500 and we bought

our house for 430.

>> Okay. But you only owe 150 on it. But we

only owe 150. Yeah, we owe 150.

>> One other thing I want to address, and it's not a back and forth, but I do think it's important in this process to mention that, you know, you said something a few minutes ago that, well, if we move, there's no way we're going to be able to afford to live somewhere else. And that's just simply not true.

Right now, you may have to move further than you want to, >> but but I do think when you're making decisions like this, you can't be operating in in really uh extreme

uh falsehoods, okay? because then you'll end up making a decision based on a false narrative. So, do you understand what I'm saying and why I'm challenging you on that? >> Yeah.

>> Because you may, this may be the best option for you guys to move. I don't know that it is yet. Uh but if it is, you can't have this mindset of, well, we're just simply not going to be able to afford to go somewhere else. The state has unfortunately come in and put you guys in a pickle.

Uh and that stinks. But now we've got to make the best decision moving forward.

>> Do you have any information on how it's

um going to be like parcled out? Is it going to be a lot of um units or is it

going to be spread out? >> Putting in 40 units on like 2 acres.

>> Um and it's a they're really congesting

our block. like we said the town tried

to go with 20, but the um builder said

we need 40 because they don't pay um

they don't usually end up paying uh their rent on time so they're relying on states and federal subsidies.

>> Do you have a real estate pro?

>> Uh no. >> Okay. Ramseyolutions.com. What is the actual website so I give it correctly here? Uh team's gonna help me out. We'll get it to you in just a second. What is it? >> Okay. >> I'm not hearing in my ear.

>> Oh, can you hear me? >> Okay. Real estate. So, ramseyolutions.com slash agent. Is that right? Okay. Sorry

about that. I just didn't have that in front of me because here's the deal. I want you to get two or three opinions from some very successful real estate pros in your area. I mean, I'd have them out this week >> and and I I'm just going through my checklist.

Jay, jump on here. But I'm going, all right, I want some some pros who've been in your market for a long time and they're crushing it. And I'd get their opinion, multiple opinions, two to three opinions, so that now we may realize, uh, we've got a little bit of time. Or, no, we need to get out in front of this and list this house right now.

>> That's right. and and and and you know this thing drag on drag on drag on and you hurt yourself. Again, I have no idea and that's why I want to stay real, you know, real careful here about making some type of real uh strong recommendation on what you should do as to whether you list it right now or not.

But if you get some advice from three really good real estate pros and they're all saying the same thing. They're going, I get out while the getting is good, >> then I would do that and realize that I can re uh establish myself. And you got a lot of equity in this home.

>> So you got options. Jade, what what else would you be thinking? >> Uh my biggest thing was the concentration of of development and how much how much per like how many units per block? Uh, is it going to be a thing where there's just a couple single family homes or is it really going to be a high concentration?

Obviously, a higher concentration could soften the market for you over time. So, that's that's the thing that I was worried about. So, I I'm with Ken. I would get with somebody that's a professional specifically in your area that can give you more concrete information on what they believe the timeline the best timeline would be.

>> Yeah, absolutely. Sorry that's happening to you. Uh, let's go to Vince now in Denver, Colorado. Vince, how can we help today?

>> Hey, Ken and J, thanks for taking my call. So, I was wondering if it's okay for me to make a career move now. I'm married, have three kids, >> currently in law enforcement, making about $97,000 a year, and I want to become a journeyman lineman.

>> Uhhuh. >> But after the four-year apprenticeship program, um, it's like 230,000 plus.

>> Woo! Woo! Man, I love that.

So you're it sounds awesome. >> So you're locked in for four years at 50 to 60.

>> It's uh so there's different steps within that four years. So there's step one, step two, all the way up to seven.

Once you get seven, then you top out and there's a 5% increment starting from 60% pay, 70% pay of the um whatever the

annual okay rate is for.

>> But okay, so I I got confused somehow.

So for four years, what? Give me a give me your pay. Year one, if you make this move, you're making 97 now in law enforcement. Year one, you're making what? As a journeyman.

>> Uh well, as it'll be an apprentice. So, as year one apprentice, I'm making um about 50 to 60,000.

>> Okay. Year two, what are you making? >> Year two, >> then it bumps up to about um 70 to 80

and then probably 80 to 90 and then

>> so on so forth. >> 230 >> every year. Yeah, >> you get >> a $10,000 bump. >> Do you guys have any debt?

>> No. So, we only have our mortgage. Um, that one is we have $343,000 left. We

just recast it to lower our expenses.

>> What's your monthly payment? >> Mortgage? >> Uh, $275.

>> What kind of margin do you guys have in your budget after all the bills are paid right now?

Currently, right now, after everything is paid, we have about anywhere from 35

to $4,000 in margin.

>> Okay. Fantastic. And I'm assuming before you made this phone call, you ran the numbers on this new pay and what that would look like. >> Correct. >> And are you guys going to be struggling?

I mean, isn't it is stressful or is there going to be a enough margin where we're relaxed because we can prepare?

We've prepared for this. It'll it'll definitely be a little tight uh the first year. The problem is I don't know how long. So, you have to apply to

become an apprentice and that can take

uh anywhere from 8 to 12 months.

>> Great. That gives you that gives you 8 to 12 months to stack up even more cash.

What's your emergency fund right now? What's the actual amount in it?

>> We have $36,000 in our emergency fund.

>> Okay. So, let's play this out. Let's say it takes 8 to 10 months before we even find out. If you start doubling down and putting more money in there, you could have a really fat emergency fund that would give you a ton of margin and sleep well in that first year. True or false?

>> True. >> And your wife could do some things if she had to to make a little extra money.

True or false?

>> True. >> Would it be worth it all to make 230,000 and have that as your trade in the end?

True or false? Very >> much. Very true.

>> I'm telling you, I'm doing it. If I'm you, I'm doing it. But we prepare for it. and it looks like you got 8 to 10 months to prepare for it and your wife can come alongside and help. I think this is an absolute no-brainer. We step

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>> Hi. Um, I'm 22 years old and I have

about $25,000 in debt. Um, I'm currently

on baby step two. I'm trying to figure out the best way to tackle um all the debt that I'm in. >> List it out for us. What is in your debt snowball?

>> Uh, currently it's about $600 in credit cards. Uh, 14 on a 1,400 on a personal

loan and then the rest is a car loan that I'm handling.

>> Okay. What do you mean by handling?

Um, I'm trying to figure out the best way to get the car off my hands because I know you guys don't believe in car payments and I'm slowly realizing that it's strangling me. >> Yeah. >> And uh, >> what kind of car is it? >> Uh, it's a 2021 Toyota Corolla.

>> Okay. What's it worth?

>> I've had different evaluations. The dealer I bought it from, they offered me 16,000 and then a dealer probably 10

miles away from me offered me 17.

>> Okay. So that means private sale you probably could break even on it now. Is it 23,000? Is that what you owe?

>> I owe like 20 225 even better. >> Private sale I've seen I've been offered about 19,000 for it.

>> Okay. Um

how much do you earn? What's your income?

>> Uh it ranges. Um I work retail so it can

be anywhere between like a,000 to,200 every two weeks. >> What do you mean retail? What is that specifically? What are you doing?

>> I I work for uh Verizon inside of a Best Buy. >> Okay. Do you have a degree in anything?

>> I'm currently in school trying to get my associates in business.

>> Okay. I I got to tell you, if I'm How old are you again? >> 22. >> 22. If I'm a 22-y old and I have this debt, I I I'm actually going to just work like a maniac and I'm going to get a much better job and then I'm going to get a better second job and then I'm going to look for any kind of crazy projects on Craigslist or somebody in LA

needs me to come move them or something like this. I'm making money hand over fist because this is very doable for you. You just have the $600 in credit card that you could knock that out by selling something you got right now. Um, and then you got the $1,400 personal loan and the rest is the car.

So, the truth of the matter is >> I don't know that you have to sell this car. You could pay this car off if you got really intense. You're just not making enough money.

>> I am right.

>> Yeah. >> Are you getting ready to go to school? Like, are you getting ready? Are you trying to like save up your time to go to school or go get some sort of a certification? Why is it that you're um

working retail right now and not getting more hours? >> Are you in college? >> Yeah, I Okay. >> I'm currently taking six six classes at a college. >> I missed that part. >> I'd press pause on those right now, too.

>> Oh, no. I have a different take on this.

I mean, you could totally do what Ken is saying. If I were in your shoes, I mean, you make $24,000 a year driving a $23,000 car and you're in Los Angeles.

You're in school. I would get out of that car almost like totally >> I'm all for that too. >> And I would get you a little clunker.

I'd spend $3,000 and get a little beater. I'd save that upright quick as quickly as you can. And I I would do that. You don't need, in my opinion, you

don't need this car in your life right now. And you certainly don't need it around your neck. And once you do that, you can quickly pay off the credit cards and the personal loan. But the biggest thing of this, Ken, is I hope that you've learned your lesson that that debt is not the way you want to go forward. uh moving forward after this.

>> Yeah, definitely. Um I've I've figured out like one of two ways to go about it.

There's this uh like ride sharing app called Turo where basically people will pay you to rent out your car and I figure I can make the >> the car payments doing that.

>> No, you don't have to listen cuz the car is going down in value. >> You don't have time for that.

>> No, you need more money. I'm actually with Jade. Um >> you need to do both. You need to get more money and you need to offload this car. you need more money. Uh because your your financial problem uh yes, you made a bad move on the car. You acknowledge it. We've we've we've we've stated that you need more money.

>> And right now, you spending any time in

a community college for six hours of an associates degree. I will tell you right now, and this will freak a lot of people out, and I really don't care. That is the worst thing you can do with your time right now. the amount of time you're spending on those classes, you need to be working and then get out of this debt and then we can start to cash flow our way through community college.

Those classes are going to be there for you. But there is, you've heard the old phrase, time is money, I hope. Have you ever heard that? >> Yes, >> bro. You need to be working. And I'm with Jay. You can get out of this car, but I want you to understand what she's what she suggested here. Uh you you literally are going to be upside down.

You're still going to have to pay off that loan, whatever's left. And then you got to figure around how to get around out of town and all that kind of stuff.

So the best thing you can do right now is just buckle down and realize that you can pay this debt off by making a lot more money. And I got to believe a guy who's willing, there's a way to make money in LA. True or false?

>> 100%. >> Well, let's go. >> Might I add something about schooling?

>> So I um I currently work like 40 hours a

week, but I'm taking all of my classes online. So, I'm like I started the

semester on Monday and I'm already two months ahead on all my assignments because I just sat down and >> that's fine. I'm not going to die on that hill. But I'm making a bigger point that right now with a guy who doesn't have a professional plan and we're just taking six hours, you know, I'm all for again extreme momentum to start something. But you could stay in the online class that's costing you money.

>> How much? Yeah. How much does that cost you? >> Uh I'm doing financial aid, so I literally paid $40 for six classes.

Okay, fine. Listen, the the the advice remains the same. Ken is right. You need money. Money is the magical elixir for

this problem. And then, yeah, in my opinion, it would behoove you to go ahead and move this car and drive something. Spend $5,000. 3,000 is to get from upside down. The other 2,000 is to get a beater. And then from there, that frees you up to think, okay, what what am I doing? Cuz what are you doing with this community college degree? What's what's the path?

Um, I'm trying to get into like finance or um hopefully if I could figure out some sort of path to go on um maybe create my own business.

>> Okay. I tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to give you as my gift. Find the work you're wired to do. It's got the get clear assessment in it. And this is about 20 minutes. I want you to take the assessment. Will you do it?

>> Sure. >> And and it's going to spit out a lot of great stuff. It's got an AI component to it. It'll give you uh potential paths and suggestions, but you need to get more clarity on what my long-term could

be so that it's not about giving a snappy answer, but the way you answer that tells me you need more clarity. And the more clarity you have, the more confidence you'll have in every area of your life. But right now, and again, I'm going to give you that gift. So, hang on the line.

But right now, I'm telling you, it is all about cleaning up this mess. And Jade's right. You didn't need the car. Clean up the car.

The rest of this stuff is easy.

And you know, Jade, I don't know that I love being in the big city. I love being young and all that, but at this stage, it's like

>> we need more young people in these large cities going, >> I'll figure out the 15 and the 20 and the 30-year plan. right now while I'm here learning and bouncing around people. I don't need a lot of social time. I need hustle time to learn how to

because the social time will come.

>> But we got a lot of young people. I'm not saying he's the guy. They get out of these big cities or whatever and they're just kind of bouncing around >> and it's like no, no, no.

>> Get up early, stay late.

>> Yes. >> Hustle, hustle, hustle. Let's clean up our financial situation. >> Work around the clock. You don't have a family to come home to. You don't have any. You know what I Man, that's part of the grind. >> Yes. Yes.

>> You know, let's just let's go live in the big city and and experience. >> Well, you got to be there for a reason. What's the point? To network, to find connections, and you can do that while you're hustling, you know, but simultaneously. >> Goodness gracious. Let's go. $1,200

every two weeks in LA.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.

Excited to have you with us.

888255225

is the phone number. Ilvaro is going to join us now in Houston, Texas. How can we help today?

>> Hi guys. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> So, I have um a family member that owes

me money and my question is how can I

make her start paying me? Um, we have a

good relationship and I, you know, um, I don't want this to be something bad in between us. >> Who's the family member?

>> My sister-in-law. >> Your sister-in-law.

And you got a And and she she borrowed the money or your brother did?

>> Um, um, brother. No, no. I I get her the

money.

>> It's your sister-in-law. So, is it your wife's sister? Is that who it is?

>> Right. >> Well, your wife's I'm sorry, I jumped. I made too many conclusions. That's that's what threw you off. I apologize. No worries. >> So, how did how much money are we talking about?

>> 14,000. >> 14,000. And how did the request how how' the request come in? Did it come in through your wife or did like how did this happen? Tell me more about how it transpired. >> Right. So, um, my wife, her sister, she passed.

And so, um,

a few months later, uh, we were we were

working on, um, on a venue for events

all together, everybody, the whole family. And so, >> um, she needed money for the something

for the venue. and I talked to her say I'm going to give you the money. Um and

well I gave her the money and uh that has been like what 8 years ago or so.

>> When you say and you were working on an event with your family, is this a a business? Is this a family business?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And so you loaned her personal

money to This is an interesting thing.

So you're working on an event for a family. What was the 14,000 for? Was it?

>> It was for um

rent. >> Oh, >> for the Yeah. >> Wait, wait, wait. Okay. Couple months or so. >> Rent for the the business or rent for her personal? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> No. For the business, for the venue.

>> Okay. Is the business still viable?

>> No. >> Ah. So, the business failed?

>> Correct. >> And it was her business or it was you all's family business.

So I was not too involved because I had

my my own job, my own thing and it was

my wife with her and the other sister.

>> Got it. >> And >> her brother. So basically

everybody on her side >> and this is eight years old now and you're calling us and you're asking us what advice we should give you about getting your money back from your wife's sister. that's taken eight years and I'm sure we've talked about it in the eight years time. Yes, we've talked about this. >> Yes.

Yes. I uh >> I don't know that I got any advice. I gotta tell you, you're you're between a rock and a hard place, my friend. >> Yeah.

I don't think it's happening. Plus, it was a business that your sis your wife was part of.

I acquiring minds want to know what your wife thinks about this debt. >> Uhhuh.

>> No, she she passed. So she

>> I am so sorry. I missed that. Your wife passed.

>> Right. Right. My wife Heresy. Yeah. My

wife >> passed. So >> I am so sorry my friend. We did not catch that detail. Did you Did you hear that? I did not hear that. Okay. I am so sorry. So So your wife is no longer with Okay. I am so sorry.

>> Good heavens. And so that's why um in

order to make the business happen, I she

came to me and I say, "Okay, let I'll help you. You're grieving too, so let's

let's do this together." And I give her the $14,000.

And then >> and then um >> three years later, four years later, her

husband passed. >> Oh no.

>> And so I I let her go. I talked to her

again. I say, "Okay, listen. I'm going to um let's talk about the death next

year and give you some time to grieve and to >> um you know, get on your feet, all that." >> And yeah, so

this is it right here now.

>> So, what happens there? There's part of me that I'm with Ken. I think you're never going to get this back, but I just want to know when you mention it to her, what does she say?

Yes. Yes, I'm working on it. Give me some time. Uh, right now things are tough, you know, something like that.

>> Are you asking for are you asking for a lump sum or are you asking for what are you asking for from her?

>> No, just a payment plan. I one time I sat down with her and I and I talked to her about that. Hey, this is something that I have in my mind. Um, give me at least $1,000 per per year. And we're not

even talking about interest here. So, you're kind of like folks call in here all the time and they have a debt that they weren't able to pay and it goes to collections and it goes to collections because, you know, the the vendor basically realizes we're not going to get anything and it's not worth our time. Collections will get whatever they can get for it and they charge it off. Whatever. That's you right now. The

likelihood of you getting this money is very, very, very slim. So, your choices

are you could try to make a deal literally and say, you know, give me what you have and we'll call it clear like you would with a collections agency. You could try that or you could just say, you know what, this woman lost her sister. She lost her husband. She doesn't have any money and you could just let it go. But either way, between

those two, I can tell you number three, you're not getting $14,000 from her.

>> Not in lumpsum. And I would I'm with you. I think it's a long shot. I'm sitting here going, "Okay, all right. I want to do my best here to serve him." I'm going, "What would I do?" And I think I would sit down with her and go, "Look, I know it's been tough for you. I had my own loss in this deal. I helped you out of the goodness of my heart, but gosh, this is eating away at me. And can we make some kind of like consistent

commitment to do something?" So, do you have anything you can sell? The problem is she probably needs the money, but I would at least go, "Do you have something you can sell? Uh, can we work together on this or else I'm gonna have to write this off emotionally?

>> I think that's the only thing you can do. I Yeah, I don't think a payment plan is that feels weird.

>> The truth is it's just as much your mistake as it is hers cuz borrowing money between family members is a mistake. It's It is not um It's not a

good move. So, it wasn't a good move on your part to do that. And it's not a good move on her part to not pay the money she said she would pay back. So, it's just a rock in a hard place. I'm sorry that >> are Are you in financial trouble?

>> Um, it can help.

Uh, not not too bad now.

>> Okay. Well, let me let me say this because we're we're winding up our time here, but I the reason I asked that question is is that's the also the switch that needs to happen. You need to now take this 14,000 and go, "This is not going to solve my problem. That's going to be gravy if and when I get any of it." So now we change our life. Elvaro, you've got to take

control of your situation

uh and make it better. You can't rely on this 14 coming in to to make the day better at all. In fact, I would just wof this is a tough situation. Um >> it's a lot of money. >> It's a lot of money, but you got to move on from it because it's maybe very hard to get back. So sorry you're in this situation. The moral of the story is what in a bumper sticker? >> Don't loan people money.

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All right, let's go to Marley in Phoenix, Arizona. Marley, how can we help? >> Hey guys. Hi. >> Um, so I am a woman in my 40s and I

already had some assets and investments in place before starting to prioritize being debtree. Like over the years, I've

built like a comfortable, stable life. I don't make a ton of money, but I make good financial decisions overall. I'm really proud of where I am, but I keep

hitting the same issue where I

get into a relationship and for me, marriage is not on the table. I don't want to be married, but I also don't want to be alone. Um, >> tell me, wait a second. All right, we need at least a few seconds on this deal. What? You want a relationship, but you don't want to get married? What's the What's the barrier there?

I watched my mom and my dad and my they are wonderful people. My dad was a good provider but it made me unable to trust

anyone else with my financial well-being. Like I always need to take care of that for me. I need to have autonomy for that. >> Did someone do >> Oh, I just I don't see in my life being

able to put my financial wellbeing in

someone else's. >> Is that because of how your dad treated your mom? Oh, no. He I mean he didn't give her a lot of like equality and equity.

>> Uhhuh. >> He was a good provider. They had a decent relationship for what they were taught in their >> Okay. But you came out of that said, but because of that, you use that as the context to say as a result, I don't ever want to rely on a husband for financial

safety.

>> Correct. Correct. I'm I am going to be independent and take care of myself and then you know build that life but

>> but you want a relationship >> monogous long-term relationship.

>> So what you're what you're looking for is companionship. That's what you're looking for, >> right? >> And you have about that.

>> Well, how's that working out?

>> I mean, it it always works out well for

a while. >> How long? And eventually they want to wife me. Like I don't know.

I >> Well, that's all you're going to get. I mean, you have to Here's the thing. I'm just going to shoot you straight as your friend. If you say to somebody, I want

companionship from you. Um there's no

commitment there. And so that person has the ability to say, "Yeah, I'll hang with you as long as this works out for me." And then when it no longer works out for me, they can they can cut you loose. That's what you're giving them permission to do. So, you kind of have to know that if that's what you want to do, you probably every five, six years

or maybe you might get a decade out of somebody, you're going to be switching over to somebody else. >> And and I'm okay with that. But >> Oh, you are. >> How do you if if I am clear about what's

on the table and they don't believe me, which I tend to find is the case. They think, "Oh, I'll change her mind." >> Sure. Sure. Sure. >> Like, I don't have children. Everybody always said, "Oh, she'll change her mind." Guess what? So, you're sad you're breaking up with these guys and they're sad. >> You feel like you're a heartbreaker >> and you're like, "Why am I a heartbreaker? I told you this from the beginning." >> I I just feel like I was clear about my expectations and eventually they either

the only time that I feel I need to end the relationship, like if it is financially oriented, is when they say

either you give me access to your accounts or I can't be with you and I say, "Okay, then we're not together." How many times has this How many times has this happened where you have broken off a relationship because the guy wanted to get married?

>> Uh, two. >> And how old are you, if I may ask?

>> I'm in my 40s. >> You're in your 40s. And has it been really heartbreaking? Any of these? Has Have they been gutwrenchingly hard even though you stuck to your principle? I'll give you that. Has it been really hard on you?

I mean, it there's obviously emotional strife, but when I look back on it, it's

not a level of regret that I feel like, oh, I missed out on something good because of it. >> All right. So, what's your question then? >> Yeah.

What's the question? Cuz my thing is like, I'll meet you where you're at. If you're if you're like, I never want to get married. Fine.

I at this point, I think it's just setting proper expectations and knowing >> I have a suggestion later, right, >> that I want you to consider, Marley, but I I don't want to get in way of what you called for. What What What did you call for?

structure? Because I know for the whole

Ramsay thing is that when you're married, you're one. >> Yeah. If you're not married, if you're not married, don't combine it.

>> Exactly. And so what is an appropriate way to execute that?

>> It's not on the table. >> Execute what?

>> You're dating. You have to view everybody as somebody you're dating, which is my money is mine. I do whatever

my plan is. I do my own thing and I'm

with them as long as they'll be with me until they want to get married and I don't and then they'll exit the scene and I will >> Are you talking about like day-to-day expenses?

>> Yeah. Like what's what's Cuz I've tried several roomates ways.

>> Yeah. It sounds to me like you're Can I say this? You're roommates and you got some type of privileges that's between you and whoever. But you're roommates.

So that means you're splitting utilities, you're splitting the rent. I mean, that's what we would suggest because you're not married.

>> And by the way, that's what you want anyway. Sounds like you don't want Yeah.

>> anybody to weigh in on your finances

>> or contribute.

>> Back out per perhaps it's more of a backing out of the romantic part of the relationship. And just saying like

knowing that the the romantic part does have some like you want to be fair. You want to be equitable. Like you don't want to be having anybody feel like they're being taken advantage of.

>> Well, here I'm so confused.

>> Well, here's the thing. The the hard part is the hard part is foundationally I see it differently because if you have love for someone at a certain level especially at an intimate level then you're wanting that intimacy to take place in other areas of the relationship as well but you have blocks there. So there is I'm just saying this again as your buddy. There is going to be because of of the way love works.

There is going to be some dysfunction there with you having those barricades there and wanting basically to have everything a marriage has but not having the marriage. It's like I want all the benefits of this, but I don't want any of the risk of it. And that I think that's what you're struggling with. And I I'm going to tell you that's going to cause you issues and it's going to cause confusion and like you said to quote you emotional strife because you're trying to execute.

your cake and eat it too. And it seems like you have a really good reason in your head for that. But I think that you're letting that reason become an excuse for you to really get the most out of this. Um I said it before that I wasn't going to try to convince you else-wise and I'm not. But I would suggest you maybe getting to the bottom of that because to your point, you've

seen relationships not work out well.

But I guarantee you, you've seen them, you have seen them work out well. So, you know, it can go either way. And you have to ask yourself, what was the factor in that? What caused a relationship to go well or not go well?

And is there any piece of control that you can have over that? I think yes. I think that marriages are successful every single day. Um, and so there's part of that that there could be more education or learning to go on that that could help you. Um, >> you got to redefine you got to redefine control. Um, Marley, I thought I was going to hear something far more traumatic. Maybe you didn't want to share it. Don't need you to share it.

Right. Something you witnessed has created a massive, massive hole of trust in your life.

>> You just don't trust anybody. Not criticizing you here. You called in. I'm making a little quick analysis here to say that there is no way to structure

these relationships with romance and

then a lack of trust around finance. You

just can't do it. And what's going to happen, Marley, and you said you're okay with it and you've signed up for it. Here was my suggestion. If you haven't done it before, I would get a really good therapist and I would sit with a therapist long enough and you got the money to do it and I would dive into this and see if the therapist can help you get to the bottom of this lack of trust and then help you with tools to be able to deal with this trust because I think in the end if you give it a shot for those of us I've been married almost 28 years so I'm not I'm not selling something that I don't believe in.

I just think that you can have that relationship that you long for and coexist with finances, but not until you can see the source of your lack of dis a lack of trust. And I see that. I feel that. I I hate that for you, but I would give it a shot.

Give it a shot. Like get to the source of this before we jump back into another relationship. And I think it's worth it in the long run.

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All right, Jade, I know you're paying attention to this stuff. We we talk about this stuff from time to time. Uh affordability probably the issue in America today, right? Whether you're on Tik Tok, Instagram, CNN, Fox News, whichever side of the >> ideological aisle or political aisle, everybody's talking about affordability.

And uh so I'm holding in my hands here a Yahoo article. Uh Trump is weighing in on all this stuff as well as the president. And uh latest headline, President Trump instructs government to buy $200 billion in mortgage bonds in a

bid to make homes more affordable. Um,

and so here's the idea. Um, if the government purchases 200 billion in mortgage bonds, uh, Trump is vowing that

this will drive rates down and make the cost of owning a home more affordable.

That's his quote.

>> Um, and he's saying it's one of the many steps in restoring affordability, something that the Biden administration uh, refused to do. Whatever, whatever, whatever. Um, I I bring that up to say, you know, Dave and I were on the air, I believe last week, and we were talking about uh one move that we did like is

Trump somehow pushing or help influencing legislation or if through an executive order it can be done uh not allowing corporations to come in and buy houses. >> Yeah, I think that would be wonderful.

>> We love that. This one, whether I agree with or not, is a very interesting thing and explain at least the math behind it.

Whether or not it's true, whether or not he can do it, >> it is interesting that people understand because what we want to do as Ramsey Solutions, we want to come when we can alongside potential public policy or existing public policy or new public policy and go here's how this affects you. So if in fact what he's saying, if the federal government's 200 billion, boom, >> explain why he thinks that that will work, what the math is on that.

>> Yeah. So obviously this is not the first time something like this has happened. We saw it in COVID too um to an extent but basically think about it when when you buy a a mortgage bond uh mortgage bonds are simply a bunch of mortgages rolled into one investment vehicle. So

if I if I buy a house can you buy a house? Technically the lender doesn't own it and investor investors have bought that off. And the reason that that happens is because when investors buy these mortgage bonds then it frees up the lenders to have more money to lend out again. So it creates a cycle there. So when these bonds are bought up, obviously if you infuse that market with $200 billion and you're buying up $200 billion of bonds, you're creating a very very high demand for bonds.

Obviously the higher the demand, the higher the price bracket goes for those.

And as the price goes down, then because this is an in demand item, people are willing to receive less in order to get it. When I say re receive less, I'm talking about interest. So when those interest rates go down, housing interest rates go down. So that's how it's connected.

So the thought is, hey, if we can go in here and kind of whether you believe this is artificial or not, artificially buy up all of these bonds, that's going to create the ability for the interest rates to go down. So that's kind of the idea around it, whether you agree with it or not.

this is, hey, if we do this too quickly, could it really mess with rates and could we see things plummet too quickly and it cause a whole set of other problems? It looks like whether they continue it or not, I think they've already started Ken and they've done like two or three billion uh of the 200 billion and so maybe if they do this kind of slower and over time, we might see interest rates tick down. Um so whether you agree with it or not, that's up to you. But just understanding it, I think, is the first part of it.

I think a lot of times headlines like this can they see the president's name and they see a big number and they go, "Oo, that's good." Or >> or I hate him >> or I hate it. And but really understanding it is a great place to start.

Uh-huh. >> What happens next? People who've been on the sidelines get in. Demand goes up.

What happens when demand goes up, Jade?

>> When demand goes up, those prices >> prices go up. So, while the cost of borrowing might go down, the cost of a house goes up. So, I I say all of that not to say you're doomed. No. But to say

that what we say here at Ramsay is there's never, >> you know, it's always a good time to buy if you can afford, >> right? that's the best time. There's no point. There's no waiting for the the circumstances to be right because we're sitting in a situation now where everybody's griping about housing. Well, I got news for you. Housing's going up if rates go down because of the demand.

We just explained that. So, here's the point. Um even with the 15-year uh we saw it dip last week. All these trends.

Again, just pay attention to this. Only buy if you're financially ready. And that means to make sure that your mortgage payment is no more than 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate conventional loan. Uh, and you need to know that buying a house in your budget's possible if you have the right real estate. Ramsey, trusted real estate agent. So, find yours at ramiesolutions.com/agents.

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Don't get stuck just trying to uh ride

the roller coaster of trends. It never works that simply. Lynwood is up next in Montgomery, Alabama. Lynwood, how can we help?

>> Hi, Ken. Hi, Jade. Thank you so much for taking my call. Well, that Yahoo article

is a perfect segue into my question. So,

um, super simple. I'm active duty, about to buy a house in March. My wife and I, this is our first home. Just kind of on the fence if I should use a conventional loan or a VA loan. Um, yeah, that

article came out and I called my loan officer and basically the difference I'm looking at is uh conventional what I'm

what I'm quoted as about $1,24

per month and with the VA loan at the the APY and APR it would be about $1,160

per month. So $44 per month difference,

about $528 per year. And I'll tell you

why I'm on the fence. I um once again,

first time owning a home, I'm not too fond of the escrow. Um I'm I'm new to

all this real estate stuff. And when I actually understood what escrow was, um

I was a little bit confused on I'm going to give the bank more of my money to pay my bills for me when I feel I'm competent enough to pay my bills myself.

I already do it with my car insurance, my phone, my gym membership, whatever. I I can pay all my own bills. Um, so with

the VA loan, I won't be able to bypass escrow. My loan officer is telling me I can bypass the escrow with the conventional loan. So, I'm uh I'm wanting the conventional for the li liberty of not having escrow, but I'm on the fence because I have a better rate with the VA, but I will have the escrow.

>> That is a lot. Okay. And I'm thinking through it. Um, I'm I'll be honest. I'm not a specialist on either of these. I feel like you would have to have the number. I would have to be able to >> I would >> compare it to something else. I Yeah.

And me for me, I'm thinking about the fact that usually we don't recommend VA loans because of the fees that that are associated. I don't know if the numbers that you've gotten have uh accounted for

that or not. I know that if you're um

we're are exempt because of disability, those fees go away. I don't know if that's the case for you. So, there's some things in here that I honestly don't have the information to to tell you fully.

>> What's the difference in rates?

>> Uh the difference in rates, I don't have the best credit because I've I've been too davish my whole life. I don't ever borrow money. >> Okay. >> Um so, uh the difference in rates, the conventional is 6% and the VA is 565.

And I guess to

to make my question more simple, I'm sorry it was so complicated, Jade. Okay.

>> Um I I just I cannot get behind escrow.

Am I Am I too weird? Am I Am I too

>> I think it's I think it's the wrong thing to be hung up on. >> I think so, too. >> Are you currently active? You're currently active duty, correct?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And And are you moving around from base to base? Like what's what do you anticipate the next five, six years looking like as far as you moving around? Um, I will probably move from where I'm at right now in December of 2027 and then this house will be a rental and

I'll probably move overseas after this.

>> Don't do it. We get this call all the time from military men and women. First of all, thank you for your service. You're a great American. But let me tell you what we tell them. If you're in the military and you're moving every two years, the house becomes a massive headache at times. And so flipping that all the time with you going overseas, your current situation, I would not get into the landlord business. certainly when I'm overseas. So, I would sit tight, see what the overseas trip looks

like and what that's going to determine before I buy a home. I just wouldn't jump in right now and buy a home. >> Yeah, the escrow is not part of the discussion, by the way. >> Doesn't even matter. Just don't buy a home right now with you moving around so much.

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All right, let's go to Megan in I think this is Oh, this one always gets me.

Hold on. This is really fun. I'm going to say it is Lima. Is it Lima? Ohio. Is

it Lima or Lima? What is it?

>> Is it Lima? >> Oh my gosh. Okay, great. >> I was going with the Peru Peruvian.

>> By the way, sorry to the team in the control room. They were like, "Is Ken's meds wearing off? Is he melting down right now?" Uh, I was trying Megan so hard. I No, no, it's okay. We like to laugh here. Lima. Okay, great. I like to be phonetically strong.

>> Well, in Peru it's Lima, but I guess it's >> in Ohio it's Lima. Yeah.

>> Yeah. All right, Megan. There's a rushi in Ohio, but it's spelled like Russia.

>> And they call it Rooi.

>> Yeah. >> Well, how about this? When I lived in Kansas, there is a city that was spelled like Arkansas City and it was called our Kansas. >> Oh, that's so irritating. >> It was called our Kansas City.

>> Let me give you one here in Tennessee, and I think they do this in Georgia as well. It's Lafayette.

>> Oh. >> The leg legendary French general.

>> Uhhuh. who France loaned to America and

as a result he was a hero and there are Lafayette towns and counties all over

America except for in Tennessee and Georgia they call it >> laet >> oh somebody punched me right in the neck

>> well nothing hurts more than Murphreey'sboro Murphrey not Murphy sorry Megan we're

getting all we're GOING OFF WE'RE GOING OFF the rails >> Megan so sorry We're really It's like group therapy with you. It's very exciting. How can we help you today?

>> My parents are in their late60s and they have done nothing to prepare for retirement. They say they're just going to work until they die because they just see no point in ever slowing down to the point that they don't have any documentation. Like their will is from before I was born and I'm in my late 30s. Um so how do I guide them? because

I've tried signing them up for classes, tried getting them set up with lawyer to try to get documents in place and every time it just falls apart.

>> Are they asking for your help or are you volunteering it?

>> Volunteering it cuz I don't want to be set up to have to deal with all of it when they die. >> Oh man. Oh man, Megan, I get it. First off, I I feel your pain.

The hard part about this is, and Kin knows, when someone's not asking and you're, you know, you're breaking your neck trying to do it for them and help them, they don't want it. They don't care. They It is not important to them. And it is important to you.

It should be.

Now, I don't know if you've had this

conversation with them, which is, "Hey guys, I know you haven't asked for my help, and I'm sorry if it feels like I am kind of encroaching on your privacy here, but here's what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking about the fact that I'm 30 years old. I have x amount of dollars and x amount of obligations. Um,

it's none of my business, but I I have the information right now, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, that you're really not too concerned with retirement.

You have the right not to be, but I am.

And the reason why I am is because if I look up and you're 80 years old and somebody needs care or somebody needs this, I'm realizing that all that's going to fall on me. And that's what I'm concerned about. Is there a plan that I don't know about that you guys can tell me about? That's the conversation I'd be having instead of jumping straight to

>> let me help you with budgeting.

>> And I've had some of that conversation with them and it's always kind of the same of like, well, we'll get to it later. We have to grow our business. We have to focus on this. You know, like they'll come up with a thousand different kind of excuses on why they're never going to work on that.

>> And then you can say and then you can say, "Okay, well, I'm just that's fine.

But I do want to let you guys know so that you know if there's no money there, if we look up and you're 80 and there's no money there, I can't help. I can't.

And then you can let them know that and say, "So

you if you're on Medicaid, >> the opposite. They have a ton of money.

They're worth a lot." >> Okay. >> And they don't want to. And my mom will make like a comment of like, "Well, when I die, you're not going to get any of my half of the estate. It's all going to be a scholarship cuz I want everyone to remember me for forever." My dad will be like, "No." And then that'll be the end of the conversation.

Like it'll be like, "That's as much as you're going to get." Does that make sense?

>> It's more concerned of like not doing what they wanted if it had certain things they wanted. Like if my mom wants a scholarship in her honor, I how am I supposed to know what scholarship you want? then she'll leave instructions.

And if she doesn't leave instructions, to Jay's point, uh this I got to tell you, this changed everything for me here in this conversation. Your mom is a treat to make a statement like that. And then and then your dad your dad just kind of does the whole Okay. And that

says a lot to me that I'm not sure the scholarship has been outlined. I think your dad just is blowing her off in a very, you know, sort of, oh, let's change the subject kind of way. You don't need to worry about this. I I got to tell you >> and and by the way, the more you keep bringing it up, it could be to your disadvantage, if you know what I'm saying.

You're like the little fruit fly, you know. And by the way, this this whole call is a little close to home for me because Megan, we had fun at the start of this call. I'll let you in on this.

two years worth of frustration for me.

I've been trying to talk Jade into doing a duet with me on a live event stage and it's the same thing. She doesn't want to hear that because every time I bring it up. So, it's like what I'm doing to Jade and trying to sing with her. >> It's cuz you want to be Sher and I'm trying to tell you I should be Sher.

>> See, it's not going anywhere. And and see, I keep telling her I want to do a duet. It'll be great. It'll be great. I tell her why. I talk about my soft baritone. Nothing. She's not interested in singing with me on a stage. So, like your mom and dad, it's the same thing. They just aren't interested in your input. So, you got to learn. I got to walk away. It's just not going to happen. And I've had to deal with it.

I'm I'm currently processing it. But it was it was a little too soon, but I thought it was a good metaphor.

>> I'm ready whenever you are, Ken.

me. >> Should I explain to all people who don't get sarcasm that I'm being completely and utterly sarcastic? They know.

>> Okay, good. >> I would never try to sing next to you ever. Like even in the car >> really >> with the radio up. >> We should do an episode of on front row

seat, >> right? >> And like >> some type of carpool karaoke.

>> No, I it I I just would have to I would have to practice forever. You're just too darn good. >> Too darn good. Um Okay, let's talk for a second because I think this is a bigger issue I want to get to.

>> Family.

Whether it is, and I'm going to I'm not going to go specific. I'm going to tee you up here. Uh, it could be loaning money. We say don't loan money, right?

It could be this kind of pressure here, the will and blah blah blah. You know, there just has got to be some kind of basic read the room when you're dealing with family and money. Yes or no?

>> Um, >> because you just don't have the influence you want, especially up the ladder to parents. Your parents are aging. They become the children. You become the parent. Mhm. >> At some point though, there's got to be some boundary that you put in place for your mental and emotional health. True or false? >> True. Boundaries are life. I I'm saying

this cuz I have my own personal journeys happening, >> right? >> And let me just say when folks call in with these questions, I feel like I'm in a whole other headsp space on it now cuz it it hits. And the the thing is, yes, you need boundaries. you and it's not

like boundaries there to like keep people out and all. It's just for everybody to be operating in their most healthy space. And that's the thing that you have to tell yourself and that I tell myself is is not to be mean or to keep somebody at bay. It's keep everybody in their most healthy space.

I'm talking to myself right now, >> right? Because okay and without getting into your personal stuff it's it's like there are times where it's like I have to put a boundary on me because if I say something and it gets completely ignored that puts me in a bad place right when your intentions are good. Yeah. >> That's a boundary. You go I want to protect myself by not saying anything.

>> Yes. >> You know that's the battle.

>> And then too you also have to ask yourself why am I even getting there's sometimes where it's like you're getting involved. Why are you even getting involved? Did anybody ask you which is what I said to Megan? Obviously, it panned out differently, but if nobody asked you, don't get involved.

>> And here's another thing. So, this is a fun example. And Megan, bless her heart, great heart, okay? She brings it up to mom, and mom hits her back with, "You're not getting any of my money." Well, that's not fun to hear.

>> It's not, but it's also mom's prerogative. >> I know, but it's not brought up. If you don't bring it up, it doesn't >> thrown in your face. That's true.

>> To your point, >> mind your business is what you're saying. >> If Listen, unless they asked you, Megan, we'd like to know what you think. You stay out.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. 888255225

is the phone number. Riley joins us now in Seattle, Washington. Riley, how can we help?

>> Hey there. It's uh time for me to save for a down payment and I use a Ramsay trusted pro who wants me to stop contributing to retirement to get intense about storing cash. Uh this gives me some FOMO about missing uh

compounding and just turning retirement off. Uh do you have any thoughts? I mean, if you're truly on baby step 3B, it's your choice. If you want to do both simultaneously, or if you want to take all of that money

and really hammer the down payment hard for the next two to two and a half years, how what's the horizon? How long is it going to take to save your down payment if you had all the money going towards it?

>> Yeah. So, I could probably do it within a year if I got really intense. And

that's his idea is >> stop doing things at the same time.

>> How long would it take? >> Probably take two years.

>> And what's what do you like are you in a hurry that I must have a house in one year or are you fine to take the two-year route?

>> Um well, what's tough is it's so expensive in Seattle that like waiting seems like prices will just continue to go up. >> So I would like to get intense. Um, I

just kind of need some encouragement to have a year where I don't contribute anything. >> Okay. So, you want to do the year plan.

Uh, yeah. I would just say that at the end of the day, you have to remember these are both investments. So, mentally, we think, oh my gosh, I'm not investing. I'm giving up investing to get this house. And what's helped me and what did help me uh when I was in your shoes is to remember real estate is also an investment and it's uh a forced savings account for your future, right?

So once you buy this house, you're saving up this down payment. All that is doing is creating uh equity for when you buy the house. And so don't think of it

as I'm not investing. Think of it as I'm

kind of diversifying in this way. I've got money going that's going to go to my 401k for retirement and then I'm also investing money into this primary real estate venture. Does that help?

>> Yeah, absolutely. like I'm I'm just instead of investing in one area, I'm doing it in a new area that I'm just not used to. >> That's right. >> And the other thing is is I play around with some numbers and just do real math.

Look at trends in the Seattle market over the last 30 years. What is the percentage? Uh there are people that that that the market has gone up on average over a decade. What are the experts saying? Like right now, I know that I can go online and I can uh get a good guess on what home prices look to

uh be, will they go up in 2026 in my

county? And so if we're talking about 12

months difference, in in other words, if you go all in, pause investing for 12

months, there's an amount of money that you anticipate being able to save.

Correct?

>> Yes. >> Yes. And then if we say, "All right, if I didn't pause investing and I saved

over a 24-month period, what would that amount of money be?" And I think you know what that number is, correct?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So then look at what do I think housing based on the market and whatever

I can look at, how much do I think housing prices are going to be that much different in in the difference of 12 months. I'm just saying I would look at all of this and not be like, "Oh my gosh, you know, it's going up. It's going up." And in in all reality, it's not going to go up as much as you think in two years. So now you're looking at the difference of one year.

So as you're making this decision, I'm just giving you some food for thought. Does make sense?

>> Yeah. And unfortunately for the area, it's like I 200,000 for a down payment

is my goal >> and that is just seems like an insane

amount of money. >> Yeah. >> Um but if I waited and maybe it will be

okay now you need 240,000.

>> Um and these are not uh incredible

homes. It's just the market here, >> right? And then if you think about that 40,000 across those two years, >> you have to ask yourself, okay, is that worth saving 40,000? Is it worth what I would have made investing that extra I

don't know how much you're saving monthly for this? But that's really the equation that you're looking at. The amount that you would be putting towards your down payment monthly instead of investing it, would that money invested outpace what you project to be the

increase in the real estate market?

Now saying that, >> and that's the tough piece because we don't know. >> We don't know. You could you could probably find some realistic projections out there. You could probably find some realistic projections out there.

>> I personally I Jade probably would not nerd out to that extent because there's two things on the line. It's a question of values. You have to go, okay, how much do I value having this house?

What's it going to give me? Is it going to give me stability? It's going to give me a little bit of diversity diversification in my investments because, you know, this is probably not your forever home. At some point, you'll probably sell it and you'll make some money and that sort of thing.

Um, I I'm giving you that equation cuz you might like to nerd out on it. I personally would not. I would just look at this and go, you know what, how quickly do I want to get this done and out of my life? I value doing it faster than I value putting aside the extra money in retirement.

or I just really love the way it feels

to invest this full amount, so I I I'm fine with it. Right. It's totally up to you. There's not a wrong or right answer on this. >> Yeah. Is this your first home?

>> Uh, yes, it will be.

>> And how old are you again?

>> 36. >> 36. Are you single?

>> Yep. >> Okay. Any plans to settle down?

Um I I mean I like my area. Um I could

easily and the biggest thing is the commute. I mean I could afford uh much

more but driving an hour each way would

>> I agree with you on that >> not be very fun. >> By the way, I agree with you on that.

That's a quality of life issue that adds up really quick. My point is is I'm not trying to get into your relationship life, but I am saying if you plan to settle down at some point, that person may have and should have some say in where you're going to live. And at 36 and single, not ready to settle down, doesn't sound like to me, which is fine.

I'm just giving you if I'm sitting in your shoes, I'm probably going to take I'm I'm I'm going to save up more and I'm going to take my time. I'm not going to try to rush in the next 12 months.

that I wouldn't knowing what I know about >> maybe hit my goal but then not purchase right away. >> No, I'm just saying you you're the what you gave us was should I pause my my

retirement investing and go all in and

take that money and put it into baby step 3b. I thought that was the question.

>> Correct. >> And I'm saying in your situation, I would not pause investing. I would just keep investing and keep saving. Yeah.

cuz he's not he's not in a situation where I feel like he needs to rush

to settle down in in a place to live.

He's single. I'm okay with renting in his situation. >> Huh. I'm You know what?

I'm just the opposite. I'm like, if there's not a lovely lady in the picture, it'd be one thing if you're like, "I'm dating someone. We're getting serious." I'd be like, "Ah, wait. You guys can do this together." But if there's no one in the picture, I'd be like, "Let me let me get this house before this real estate market goes up." >> And I You're talking You're talking to a guy who's older and understands the power of that investing.

And I'm just like, I wouldn't rush to buy if I were you.

>> Two different opinions. >> So, you get to do what you want. That's right. It's your call, Riley. And you're a smart guy. You're doing the right thing. Love the question. Do what feels best for you on this. You're not going to screw it up. >> That's right. >> Yeah.

Hey good folks, Dr. John Deloney here.

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a tremendous resource in a really scary,

scary, and sometimes very, very uh frustrating area of our lives. So, there you go. Let's go to Grace now in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Grace, how can we help

today? >> Hi. Um, I was wondering if like you guys

have any advice on how like a young person can like get a good good paying

job without a college degree.

>> I have lots and lots to say about it.

Let's talk about your your specific situation. Tell me how old you are.

>> I'm 20. >> 20. Are you in school, out of school, not going to do school? What's your story? >> I would want to go to college, but I don't want to go in debt in order to go to college. So, I'm currently just like working for like entry-level jobs.

>> Okay. What are you making?

>> Um, I was making $17 an hour. Like, that was the most I ever made. >> You were You were That says in the past.

What are we making right now?

Um, well, I'm currently trying to get

into the military, but in case I don't,

because I know a lot of people get medically rejected. Okay. >> In case I don't, um, >> you want to fall back.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Just for fun, okay? Like, not holding you to these answers. You don't have to sound right. You don't have to impress us. We're already a big fan of you, Grace. Uh, let's assume you had the degree. say that the money was there and you could get a degree and that degree was going to get you into a career path.

Do you have any ideas, desires for what that answer would be? What is that career path or paths plural?

>> Um, I would like to be in government and

be able to travel.

>> Government and travel. Tell me more about this government job. Just give me the ideal job. Ken, this is what my days would look like. What would you be doing?

my days or like the exact job title?

>> No, no. What you be doing during the day? Forget job title. I don't care about job title. What would you be doing in the government?

>> Um uh well, I really like the the current

um the current people in government right now. And I would want to like the dream job would be like to be able to have that like some power to be able to

change like bad laws and just like

change laws. >> Okay, got it. So, you're talking about uh you're talking about a legislative job and that's way up the ladder. You gave me the answer. Okay. So, the military situation uh when are we going to find out about that? What's our timeline?

Um, well, I'm going to boot camp tomorrow, so I'll probably find out within a week or two. >> Oh, so you're already in?

>> Yes, but I'm asking like for other people like because a lot of people get medically rejected from the military and there's still a chance that I could. So that's why I was really curious like how you guys advise people like if they have like >> um like if they want to get like a good paying like a a >> influential job like how they can go about that without going into debt.

>> I'm not going to answer it on influential because that's very subjective. U but if if for some reason you get medically rejected, you don't cut it in boot camp. Um what we're going to do is if we don't have any money to get qualified in college then we look at

can I get qualified to do a variety of

different things. The answer to that is yes. So we really want to start with what is it that I would like to do and the answer to what is it that you would like to do should always come back to what are you good at doing right? So what are what are the skills and talents you have?

Now here's the deal. I'm going to gift you this so you don't have to go through this long answer. I'm going to give you my book find the work you're wired to do.

assessment measures what Grace is good at. That's your talent and skills. What Grace really loves to do. We call that passion. That's work you really look forward. It's a task or a function or a role. And then we're going to look at what motivates Grace. What's her missional result in life? is what gets her up in the morning to put out into the world. That's a result from work. So the the assessment will do that for you.

But the answer to your fallback is I'm going to look at my assessment. I'm look at what I'm good at doing and now I know what types of jobs that I can go get or I can learn. And I could go through a training program. I could go to uh some type of a a boot camp if it's technology

related. Um if it's a trade, I can go to

trade school. You still tracking with me? Yeah, >> there you go. So, we figure out what is the work I can do because I've got some raw raw talent. And then what's the work I want to do? Because I know that I love getting up every day and maybe I like doing process work. Maybe I like doing people work. Maybe I like working with objects.

Maybe I like ideulating and creating from my head. Those are the four types of work. Idea work, people work, process work, and object work. And so again, this assessment will help you.

But as you begin to figure out what kind of work I would like to do and do I have the requisite talent with training now we've got some answers and now we look at okay what is it going to take for me to get into that and most of the time you're going to find you don't need a college degree that you can work your way into that. So let's see how the military thing plays out and here's the good news for you. You make it through boot camp, you stick it out, you're going to now have the GI bill.

You're familiar with that?

>> Yes. >> And now Grace can do >> Yeah. Now Grace can do whatever she wants after she pays, you know, uh, pay

serves her time rather. So, uh, really excited for you. Do you have some medical condition that you don't need to share with us, but are you is there something going on with you to where you think it's a good chance you may not make it through boot camp?

>> No, but I mean, I just wanted to have

like backup plan.

>> I want to bring Jade in because she's she's got a lot of wisdom here. I want you to weigh in on the mindset and anything tactical that you think she might do as she walks into this very intense season that I think she's going to make it through. But what if she doesn't? >> You talking about the boot camp specifically?

>> Yeah. What do you want to add to this? What would she do? Oh boy.

>> What's her fault? What would you add to what I said? Anything you want to add? >> I mean I you covered the career front like cover to cover.

I don't have anything to add there. Are we talking about going into the boot camp like what to experience? >> No, I'm saying if she doesn't make it >> Yes. >> which we don't want to focus on that, but since she asked >> Yeah.

There's no reason. >> What would you say to her if she doesn't make it for some reason? Forget the career front. What would you say to her mindset wise, emotionally?

>> I would say, oh, okay. I would say, you know, sometimes when things don't go the way we want them to go, we're thinking it's some like we automatically think it's a negative. Like, if I don't get the job, it was a loss.

jobs, it's a demotion. And I would say to flip that around and if something doesn't happen, it's cuz it wasn't supposed to happen, which means there's the other successful piece that's out there waiting for you to just find it.

And it's likely better than what you

were initially planning for. That's why the other thing didn't work out. >> Yeah. What branch do you mind if I ask what branch you're going into?

>> Sure. The Navy. >> Come on. My grandfathers were both in the Navy. I'm partial. >> Navy. >> There we go. I think that's fantastic.

Congratulations. Can we just say congratulations on on you being selected? You're going into one of the great organizations in the world, United States Navy. You're going to learn so much. Uh, and you're gonna come out of this thing uh, a lot tougher sounds like after boot camp. I don't know what boot camp's like in the Navy. Is boot camp in the Navy as hard as it is in the Marines? >> I don't know. >> No, it's not.

>> No, not at all. I don't think at least.

>> Good for you. I think you're going to crush it. Hey, we're rooting for you here. >> Yeah, >> we're rooting for you. >> Yeah. So, hang on the line. U, my gift to you, your boot camp is find the work

you're wired to do. And um also Christian, let's get her my other bestselling book, From Paycheck to Purpose, which is the seven stages of

doing work that you were absolutely created to do. Very proud of the those stages. That'll be helpful after you after you read the first book and take the assessment. And uh thank you for serving our country. You're a great American. I don't know if I could do well in the Navy, Jade. You know why?

The deep sea. I'm afraid I'd be like raling over the edge of the boat. Get your sea legs. >> Would I? >> Yeah. >> I don't know. Heat. Heat. N.

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It's not available in all states. >> All righty then. Today's question comes from Aaron in Kansas. He says, "Would there ever be a time where you wouldn't pay tithes in order to get yourself out of a bad financial situation? I'm doing okay, except I was dumb and bought a condo I couldn't afford. Now I'm in a situation where it's hard to pay my tithe, and I'm just curious as to your thoughts on how to juggle generosity and getting out of debt." Uh, I love this question. There's a couple facets to it.

I'll try to hit all of them. First off, for anybody listening, tithe, if you're um if you're a Christ follower, um one

of the practices is uh you give 10% of

what you earn back to your church in order for that to be used for, you know, missions or building the church or what have you. That's that's a practice that um many Christ followers do.

So that being said, here at Ramsey, we would say giving that type of generosity, any type of generosity, including things like tithe, should be at the top of your list, the top of your budget as a practice all the time. Uh

that's my personal stance on it as well.

That being said, um from a debt payoff

perspective, I always like to remind people that it's your choice. I personally would always give. It's just a personal conviction that I have. And if you do want to get into the spiritual part of it, you know, that's between you and God. I don't think that he's going to like strike you with lightning if you don't give. And I also believe that your heart should be in the right place to give to be a cheerful giver giving out of willingness. Um, and it sounds like

at this point you're not sure if you're willing to give this money. And that's something that you can kind of wrestle through on your own. I'm not going to sit here and tell you yes or no. I can tell you what I would do, which I I would continue to give and I did. When Sam and I were going through our debt payoff, 460,000, money was so tight and every every every cent counted. But for me, my personal perspective was um you can't outgive

God. And when you do give, you receive back. That's what scripture tells us is that um when you give and it shall be given, pressed down, shaken together, running over, it will flow back to you.

Um and so I believe that. And I believe that not just in a monetary sense, but you can receive that back with peace.

You can receive that back with favor, open doors, all of these different things. And so for me personally, it was something that I felt like if I didn't do, I was only cheating myself is kind

of the way I I viewed it and Sam viewed it. So that's up to you to kind of

decipher. That's just my take. Um, I

really want to look at this condo that you can't afford because what I'm really just seeing here is less of a tithe issue and more of a sustainability issue because what's the solution for this condo that's outside of your budgetary

range? That's that's my question. So, I'd really be trying to get that right side it right sized and right side up.

Um, and that's the bigger play here, I think, than um if you miss a month of tithe. >> Well, and and and here's the reality. My guess is not having his budget in front of us that if the tithe payment >> makes enough room to him to pay the he's got bigger problems, too. It's not just the tithe issue.

We're running way too tight. And I think you're right. Very astute on that. Thank you for the question.

Let's now go. This is kind of fun. We've got Jade in studio with me, but we're going here in our neighborhood right in Nashville, Tennessee, where Jade >> is on the line.

>> Hi. Um, thank you for having me.

>> Sure. >> So, I'm trying to decide. I'm thinking about selling my house. I bought it when I was 22. I'm 34 right now, so I do have

a lot of equity, but the house is pretty old. It was built like in 1965.

So, I'm coming up to like having a lot of issues as far as repairs with the house. and it's kind of it's just weighing on me financially to where it's causing me to be behind on other things because of you know the repairs and

stuff. I am a single woman with two kids

and um I'm thinking about selling just

to get a fresh start, a new start. But with me selling um the house, I was going to try to use that money that I make from selling the house to put down towards a new house and probably like consolidate some of my bills.

>> Okay. >> And I don't know. >> Well, tell us about the house. What What do you owe on the home? And then tell us what you think you can get for the home.

>> Um I owe like 63 64,000 on the house.

And um I really don't know how much I

would get. I have been getting a lot of calls all the time and they would say

like 200 something, a little less than 300. So >> Okay. Well, step one is we we want you to go to ramseyolutions.com after this phone call. We want you to look up our real estate page and let's get you with uh let's have you talk to two or three uh of the trusted pros over there.

somebody that knows the Nashville market really well and they're they're affiliated in the way that they know how we want you they them to treat you, they're going to treat you well. Uh you go with the one that you have the best vibe with, make sure that you understand everything. But let's get let's get some real pros, some Ramsay trusted pros out there to tell you what your house is worth and give you a sense of the market and what you might be able to go to before we ever really decide on this. We need to know that.

You need to know that for sure.

Walk us through that.

>> Um, I have three credit cards, but both

of I mean all three of them is list is one two of them is 800, one is 900. I

just very minimal. Um, I do have school

loan debt. Um, but it's in good standing right now. So, I'm not behind or I don't owe. Um, about like 70,000.

>> Okay. How much do you earn?

>> Um, I make like 59 60,000 a year.

>> What's that? What do you take home every month? What do you see?

>> It varies um based on overtime.

>> Okay. Give me a good Give me a in between a good month and a bad month, what is it?

>> Um, I'll say like a good month for

month. Um, maybe like

4,200.

>> Okay. >> And a bad month, maybe like 3,000.

>> Okay. >> 3500. >> So, here's what I'm hearing. I I have a couple of clarifying questions. One, uh, what is your would you when you mentioned earlier that >> I do have a car note as well.

>> Okay. Tell me about the car.

Um, it just it's I owe like 18,000.

>> Okay. >> On the corner. >> So, when you said earlier that it was tight and it it was it was you know money was tight, was it the monthly payment that's tight or was it when you're thinking about the repairs the was it the repairs that were really what was frustrating you? >> Um, it's just the maintenance cuz continue like for me my kids just continue living here. I would have to keep investing into the house as far as

repairing things >> like things like what? Like a roof, >> AC unit. >> I just recently, yes, that's down currently right now.

>> Um I just recently um fixed a leak in my

house. >> Okay. >> On my roof. And I have another one, but it's on the back side of the house, so I haven't dealt with that really.

>> Um >> Okay. A lot of things. These are higher ticket higher ticket items is what it sounds like. Um Ken is right. I would want to get real numbers around selling the place. Um I also want you to have

some clarity around your numbers. It feels like they're they're kind of a guess right now. And I have a sense that if you had them in a budget, you could make a plan that could possibly really really help you. Um

do you have a budget?

>> I do.

Um, it's probably not the best, but I do have a budget. I'm like still figuring it out. >> Well, we're going to send you a better budget. We're going to send you a copy of every dollar and and give you a subscription for a year so that you can use it so that you can find out what your margin is cuz what it might, Jade, just be you needing to get and see how

much margin do I have? What would it take for me to cut back a little bit and save up to do some of these repairs? I'm not convinced right away that it's time to sell. Um, but the margin the the

budget's going to tell you. If you're looking at it and you're in the redmost months, then that'd be an indicator. But if you're looking at it and you're finding a couple hundred of margin and you're realizing, man, I could be paying more towards these credit cards and clear those out, I might be interested in seeing this through. As long as that mortgage is no more than 25% of that 4,200 every month.

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsay

trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

Our

scripture of the day comes from 1 Peter 1 verse 6. So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead. Even though you have to endure many trials for a little while. Our quote of the day from Ronald Reagan. The future doesn't belong to the faint-hearted. It belongs to the brave.

Oh, I see what they did there. that uh that uh crypto commercial with Matt Damon tried to borrow a little bit of that fortune favors the bold. You remember that? I wonder if they were borrowing from this Reagan quote. I just wonder. >> You might be right. >> I just wonder. Jennifer is up in San Francisco. Jennifer, how can we help?

>> Hi. Uh thank you for taking my call. I So I have a question. I am super new to the Ramsay Baby Steps. Um and I have kind of a unique situation. Um, I since

I'm now on this track um and trying to

solidify being practicing financial literacy, I have a 17-year-old son and I want to make sure that he doesn't struggle with

the lack of knowledge for financial literacy that I did growing up. So, how transparent should I be in communicating

my mistakes uh to help him make that

foundation starting now using Ramsey principles? >> Well, I'm just curious. Let's just say that u he's in the room and you're asking me like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, sure. Share the mistakes you really love your son to know about. What would those mistakes be?" Um well when I was little I or well I guess you know young getting turned into the world I didn't understand about budgeting. I didn't know you know the

importance of you know making sure that you you know knowing where every cent of

your money went um with it and it caused

struggles. >> Okay. Um, you know, thankfully now I've worked my way into uh, you know, a fantastic career. Um, and now kind of

seeing the, oh, you know, I can, I still

have time to correct the mistakes that I made. >> Um, but my most important aspect is

making sure that, you know, as a parent, you want better for your child.

>> Yeah. >> Um, >> I, you know, look, I love that answer.

>> Not to be as open. >> Yeah. Well, I don't think you have to.

Um, so my kids I of course I have a

unique situation and my kids roll their eyes every time they see me on a video or anything like that, but you know I talk to them about the the big picture financial stuff obviously in my role here. Um, but my wife and I don't we don't let them see our budget. We're not we're not opening up the uh that's just something they can't handle nor do they need to know. However, the reason I asked you that first question, I'm sure that you could say if I was in a room with you and we were whiteboarding your biggest financial mistakes.

You said the budget, you didn't budget. You didn't know how to budget.

You probably at some point accumulated some debt. I would talk about those big mistakes and just keep it that simple

and then and then come alongside of him after you talk about, you know what, I wish someone had talked to me about budgeting. Now, I use this thing called every dollar. Let me explain the concept of the budget, right? And you and you

walk them through it. You go, here's why. But I think kids will listen to our pain more than they will our advice. And I know that there have been a handful of times, Jade, I want to bring you in on this where I have had some moments with all three of my kids different times where I realized in talking about dumb

things that I did, failures that I had

made. They locked in and asked lots of questions. And it started with just pure curiosity. I kind of want to know how dad screwed up because he might be the

idiot that I think he is.

>> And in talking about my failures, I was

then and only then able to and most of

the time they'll ask questions and I was

able to give some insight into how to avoid that for themselves. Uh I I think that's the easiest way to go. Jade, I want you to weigh in on this because I think you get some great insight. >> I I honestly Ken, I think you got it.

Your kids are older than mine. Mine are five and seven and so we're very low on

the the sharing category at this point.

But I I agree with Ken. I mean I I'm just thinking back to the things that I remember that my own parents taught me and a lot of it was that sort of thing.

Don't make the mistake I did. Do this instead. Um I think that's there's just a relatable quality there that >> um young adults want to see. They want to see that they're not alone and that you were once thinking some of the same thoughts they're thinking. >> Yeah. Does he have his own job?

>> He just got his first job right after he got his driver's license.

>> Great. You know what I think is also the greatest teacher is to let him let him make some mistakes and then you be there to go, "Hey," and not correct him. It's going to be very hard, Mom. Especially a 17-year-old boy who's now distancing himself from you. I'm sure you're already seeing it. And and it's a little

I think we're about as close as I could expect to be for having a 17-year-old son >> and I'm just telling you having walked through I'm just telling you if Stacy were on the air with you right now there were things and again every situation's different but they naturally push away from you and if he makes some mistakes with his own money Jennifer your posture needs to be oh buddy I'm so sorry about that I did something like that like no I

told you so or you can't do that it's got to be oh Oh, that stinks. I did

that. Oh, man. I blew that so many times. Hey, you want my thoughts on how do you avoid that? He's going to need that approach. But I think one of the things we do as parents sometimes is we hover way too much, especially with teenagers as opposed to uh be available.

Not hover, but be available when they blow it and in the right posture. And I think that's probably the best thing you can do. Thank you for the call. I love that. >> It's like a good salesperson. You want them Yeah. you have to be like far enough away that you're not annoying them, but if they need you, they can just >> Yeah. What's the old phrase? Um, when the student is ready, the teacher appears kind of a thing.

>> And I think with parenting, that's one of the things that I'm It was so stinking hard. And I'm still in the middle of, you know, I got a 20, an 18, and a 17.

>> But, you know, I still don't do that well. But I found that when I can just chill out, >> they come to you. It's like getting a little birdie to come to you. >> 100%. They come to us and they're like I'm like oh. And I'm learning to just be

like my good friend Les Perro taught me this. He's a worldrenowned psychologist.

Like just immediately empathize.

>> Yeah. >> First thing is oh man that stinks.

That's got to feel awful and just like

sit in it instead of clean it up.

>> I'm going to remember this. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to put I'm tucking this in my back pocket. >> The parental tendencies to come in and clean up the mess. Oh, you're sitting in your own dookie. Let's get that all cleaned up instead of letting them sit in it and go, "Oh, that's awful, isn't it?" >> Yeah. >> It's pretty Oh, I feel so bad. You're sitting in that. How did we get there?

What happened? >> Yeah. >> And boy, it's so hard to do that, right?

Like, what happened? Let him describe how they got in that situation.

>> Crazy. All right, let's go to Sean. See if we can help Shawn out on the tales of that call. Sean, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thank you for having me.

>> Hey, I'm glad to have you. Listen, I'm putting you on the spot. We've got about 2 minutes, so you can hit us with what we can help with quick.

>> Okay. I'm new to making a budget. Never made one before. Maybe it's bad timing on my end here, but I'm going through a career change. New job starts next month, as well as having a child in 3 months. >> Yikes. >> Um, so having a hard time trying to figure out a budget. Uh, my income is irregular. I work in sales and then I'm also in the Army Reserve and so that income is also different monthtomonth.

>> Okay, you're in good hands with Jade.

>> All right. So, what I would do, I would start out by saying what what what's the worst month I could possibly have moneywise with the Armor Reserve? What's the least they could pay me? And with my sales job, like what's that base salary that I know I'm going to get?

And I would start there because you truly don't know. It's a new sales job. You don't know what you're going to make. You don't know if you're going to knock it out of the park or if it's going to be a struggle for you.

So, I would start with that lowest amount. And that way, I kind of have a sense of this is the least I could make. And then from there, I'd build the budget and I'd realize, okay, if I have the worst month ever, here's how much in the red I'll be.

Right? And so, just putting having some some real facts to put to this is going to is going to help with any anxiety you have around it. And then, let's say you you do that and you are in the red, I would just kind of have some be formulating some thoughts. Okay, if that happens and I'm $500 in the red, what would I do to fix it?

start thinking about that and then as you start to do the job and you start to figure out, okay, this is the regularity.

But for sales, uh, any irregular income,

small business, if you can create a

cushion, a decent enough cushion that if you know, hey, it t $5,000 to run my my life, I always have a cushion with that $5,000 in it, and I'm kind of pulling from it as needed. And it'll take you some time to build that up, but um for a regular income small business, that really really does help. >> Yeah, love that advice. You can do this.

Uh hang on the line. Let's get him into every dollar. >> Love that. Christian let you start practicing and you will get really good at it. Christian will take care of you.

Thank you, Sean, for the call. All right, folks. There, remember this.

There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 51. Early Money Decisions Shape Your Financial Future | December 31, 2025


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George Kamel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So, take what you learn today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm George Kamel joined by my pal and co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour, another great show on the Ramsey Network, Rachel Cruze is here [music] with us as well. We're here to answer your calls about life and money. The number is 888-825-5225.

Miguel kicks us off in Dallas, Texas.

What's going on, Miguel?

Hey, George. How you doing? Doing great.

How can we help today?

Yeah, hey. So, um you know, I've been following you guys for quite a bit sometime now. Kind of wish I'd started earlier like most people, but well >> 100% same. here we are. Um you know, I'm

working on on step number six.

Thankfully, but I do have a question because I I listen to Dave say all the time how credit cards

are the devil and they are the worst thing that one person can use. And and I agree with

all of that except um so

a really long time ago, kind of like Dave, I at a very young age I did bankruptcy. And since then I learned to live within my means. Um so,

I've but I've had a lot of credit cards since then. I just paid them off at the end of the of the of the month. I don't have any credit card debt. I haven't had for over 10-15 years now.

>> Good. >> So, my question is um you know, if I pay

off my credit cards at the end of the month and I am using them a lot so that I can get like, you know, free tickets to travel with my family and stuff like that. Uh would you still recommend that I don't do that? If so, why? Or is it okay

for me to continue using my credit cards as long as I pay them off? Well, as of

this recording, it's still a free country. So, you are free to do as you wish, Miguel. And so, if [clears throat] is it okay? Sure.

If it's working for you, go for it. But, the reason you called in, there's something inside you that maybe is thinking is there a better way? Could I be doing better? Could I optimize if I use my own money instead of using someone else's and paying it back every month later on?

Sure, you can make the argument in hypotheticals all day long. But, the the real thing here is you're using it to get free travel.

Did I hear that right?

Yeah, correct. And so, have you actually added up what it would have cost you if you had paid cash, done your own research, found the right flights that worked for your family? Like, okay, I got I got $600 in value out of this and it cost me 200 for the card for the year. Have you done the math on that?

Uh yeah. I mean, it definitely pays off.

Like, for example, last year I took my family to Europe and it I completely

paid for our flight tickets. It was $4,000 worth

uh just with points. I think I had to pay a little bit of taxes >> you spend? on it. >> you said you had to pay it off the balance the next month?

No, no. That that was just paid off with points. >> Okay. You said you owed a little bit still for the flights is what you meant. Okay. Well, yeah. They make you pay like some taxes, but it was like $200 or something like that. >> And then, how much did you have to spend in order to earn that many rewards? That many points?

Uh I don't know. It sounds like a few years of spending.

Yeah, I haven't done the math, but it's probably a couple hundred grand or something like that. >> There we go. Ding ding ding. So, Miguel, the truth [laughter] is you could have saved up four grand out of a few hundred grand that slipped through your hands.

Am I wrong?

Well, okay. So, here's the thing. I use my credit cards for everything.

I believe it. I pay my I pay Yeah, I pay my bills. I pay You know, everything that doesn't charge me a fee for using a credit card.

>> Yeah, a lot of those bills will charge you 3-4% for just running that credit card. If they charge me a fee If they charge me even a penny, I won't use my credit card. So, I don't pay my mortgage or anything like that with my credit cards. But, there are actually a lot of things that I can pay with my credit card. I do my groceries with my credit card, all of my regular spending.

And that adds up to quite a bit, you know, throughout the years. You've impressed Rachel. Rachel, if you could see her face, she is so impressed.

>> [laughter] >> No, she's not. >> sighing. Well, here's the thing, Miguel.

A couple of things. Number one, Sure.

studies have been done and it has been proven mathematically that you do actually end up spending more when you're spending it with a credit card.

And it may just be groceries and all the things, but because there is zero emotional connection to your money, subconsciously, naturally, without it you even realizing it, you end up spending more. So, even with groceries, for instance, we've talked to people on the show and they say, "Oh, I just would use my credit card for the things that we needed, you know, the bills and groceries and gas." And then, we have heard countless times, haven't we, George? People say, "Actually, we ended up going without a credit card for 6 months to see if we could save money and we actually ended up spending less.

We don't even know how that happened." And I'm like, "Well, cuz I know because there's no emotional So, you don't even realize the amount of money that you're actually overspending." So, over years of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on this credit card to get $4,000 of flights, what could have been saved actually may have been even more than 4,000 with the subconscious spending that you're doing and not even realizing it. So, that's one thing. And then, number two, Miguel, like and again, this is a personal kind of conviction for me and it may not be for you.

I'm not saying it has to be for everyone. But, what is what's so frustrating to me and I think because we're in this line of work and George and I talk to people every single day who do have credit card debt. And these banks and this whole debt industry has screwed over the American people. They have.

They have not helped people. They have hurt people. That's why we have a job.

So, off the I mean, it kind of feels like off the backs of people who are struggling and hurting, I don't want a free flight out of that. I have the ability to save up and work hard myself and not have to deal with this industry at all. And there's and I have no bill at the end of the month. You know what I mean? Like, I pay for my groceries.

Sometimes I do Instacart and have them delivered. And then, it's done. And then, I'm done. And I'm like, I don't have to I don't have to play this game with them.

And and so, there's just something so freeing about it. And again, that may not be everyone's conviction, but when I see mass I see banks and I see their bill all the things. >> much. Like, this is crazy.

>> And I'm just like, man, they have Y'all have screwed over people. And people are giving their hard-earned income to these places, to these industries and they're not allowing to be able to help themselves, you know? And so, I'm like, I don't I don't want it. I don't want it.

I will save up. I'm I'm booking a girls' trip actually today. I was telling George I was going to buy us tickets.

one way. Yeah, to get And I'm like, that's fine. I will budget for that.

Like, all day every day. And I don't have to worry about it. So, there there I don't know, Miguel. It's um >> Here's the experiment. This is fun. So, let's say you spent $200,000 to get four, right? That's 2% cash back. Fair?

Yeah. >> Use your debit card for a year and see if you spent 190 grand instead of 200.

Well, that just saved you 10 grand. So, you just gave yourself $10,000 in rewards by not spending more. So, that's

that's the the thing that I can't help you figure out on paper. That's something that you need to explore for yourself. And again, there's the the moral side. I cover eight objections of why people won't stop using their cards in my book Breaking Free from Broke. So, how about this? I'll send you a copy.

You read the chapter and then call me back for a fun discussion.

Yeah. No, look. And then, I I totally agree with you guys as far as Hello? I was going to say, "No, you don't, Miguel." >> Rachel is laughing cuz you don't agree.

>> agree. You're charging those credit cards. >> I totally agree.

We are great. Especially with the part that, you know, there's you know, you don't feel the money coming out of you, you know, when you're using a credit card. Um [music] So, my question is >> I wish we had time for more, Miguel. You you burnt out the clock >> [laughter] >> telling us about all the rewards you got going to Europe, my friend. But, hey, call us back and hang on the line. I'll send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. I think it will enlighten you with all the stats.

>> [music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no

whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection.

But, there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it.

But, if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go-to.

They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling.

and so is my family. So, don't wait.

It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

>> [music]

>> Up next, we have Jake in Grand Rapids.

Hi, Jake. Welcome to the show.

Hi. How are you doing? We're doing great. How can we help?

Hi there. Yeah, so I'm fresh out of high school. I don't have any debt. I don't have I've never taken out any loans, and I'm I'm curious that when I start to go look for a house 10 years down the line or whenever, how how will I be able to get a mortgage without having any credit?

Ah, Jake, you are speaking my language. This is one of my favorite questions cuz it feels like a magic trick.

But, the house is the one that gets people. So, that tells me you already know there's a way to do it.

Mhm. Yeah. So, what have you found out in your research so far about how to buy a house without a credit score?

So, I I've heard I've heard like different things, and it it it doesn't really make sense to me. Like, the someone brought up like a manual underwrite, and I I'm I'm not really sure what that is. I I don't really understand what they're what they're talking about. Perfect.

So, when you think about the credit score, this was invented in the '90s, and all it did was make it easier for lenders to kind of do a vibe check on the people they were lending money to, right? So, Jake has a high score, great. He's a reliable borrower. We know Jake's probably going to pay back.

Well, back before credit scores existed, instead of automated underwriting through, you know, computers and AI and credit scores, there was something called manual underwriting where a real person like me sits down, looks at Jake's tax returns, his pay stubs, his previous payment history on his rent and utility bills and insurance, and go, "Oh, okay. Jake's a reliable person. He's going to pay back the money he borrowed." And so, that's all manual underwriting is is instead of relying on a credit score, it relies on a real person to look at your financial documentation.

It's a person. So, manual versus not.

And a lot of mortgage companies, because they're truthfully just lazy, go, "Nah, we don't do that." So, people think, "Wow, I can't get a mortgage without a credit score." But, there's a lot of companies that will do it, and the main one that specializes in this is called Churchill Mortgage. They've been a partner of the Ramsey Show for over three decades now, and those that's who I went through to get my last mortgage without a credit score. And they made it real easy. You'll have to supply things like, you know, 12-month history of your savings and bank accounts, tax return for verification of income, rental payment history.

So, if you've rented an apartment or even from your family, and you have an on-time payment documented every single month, that counts. And then, you know, an alternative trade line like a cell phone bill or insurance bill that you paid regularly. So, if you have all of that, plus you got a solid down payment, you're going to be in good shape.

Got you. All right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Absolutely. So, great. You know what, Jake? I'll throw in George when you give away one of your books >> Yes. >> Breaking Free from Broke, cuz he has a whole chapter or multiple, maybe even. A whole chapter on credit scores specifically. >> But, Jake, you're you're at a great age though to how to take these principles

and actually apply it to your life cuz you're starting adulthood. I mean, like you're you're in it, and so this book is going to be probably the best guide to help you continue to live debt-free.

What does it look like to honestly build wealth in a really healthy, solid way, not in like all these like shortcut ways that I feel like so many people are talking about. >> the noise and confusion and traps out there. And Jake, you've done such a great job. I want to applaud you. If you just continue down this path, you're going to have so much money that credit scores will become irrelevant cuz you don't need to go borrow money for a car loan, right? You're going to be able to pay cash for a used car.

Yeah. So, keep it up, man. That's my encouragement to you. You're doing things the right way. Hang on the line, and Emily will pick up. We'll get you that book. All right. Up next, we have Derek in Salt Lake City. Hi, Derek. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thanks for taking my call today.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, my question is kind of regarding my girlfriend and her her desire to to work or not work, really. Um give you guys a little bit of background. So, she's 26, still in

college, um working on her bachelor's degree, and her parents have a deal with all of their kids that as long as they're in school, they'll pay for all of their college and all of their living expenses until they either graduate or get married. That's a wild situation. >> working on her bachelor's degree, and she's 26. Has she been in since she's 18? She did take a an 18-month service

mission for her church, but other than that, she's been uh full-time school through summer and everything. >> getting a bachelor's still. This isn't like a master's or anything. Nope, this is just her bachelor's degree. >> just stretching it out because she's got mommy and daddy's bank attached? I'm like, "Sweet. Why ever leave school?

I'll be in school till I'm dead." >> [gasps] >> That's that's kind of my fear. So, she does she has two older brothers in the same situation who are 31 and 29.

They're still still working on Yeah, also still in school, never worked.

Hey, parents, let this be your memo. Don't do this ever.

>> Derek, does she feel like a winner to you? Uh that's No, not at this not at this particular moment. I didn't >> know how long this relationship's going to last cuz, man, I So, that's kind of where I didn't know how bad the situation was. I I like didn't know their work history or anything.

Just recently found out that none of them have worked.

Yeah, I would get some clarity around all of this. Have you shared with her your concern of saying, "Hey, I'm kind of worried that you're just going to stay in school forever because your life's being funded." Have you kind of been honest with her? Yeah, I've been honest with her, and that's why I reached out to you guys cuz we were talking about this, and I I work full-time. I have a a very stable job, and been doing that for a while, debt-free, kind of whole nine yards there, but I asked her to get a a part-time job during the summer and next next semester to to kind of get some financial freedom away from from her her parents.

Cuz hopefully, you have the character to say I'm an adult.

>> [laughter] >> I'm going to start making adult-like decisions, and now it's showing that her character isn't there.

Yeah, that was my my test her to see if she was willing to to put in some effort cuz I want to make things work, but if if I'm expected to take 100% of the financial

burden for the next 50 years, I don't I don't know if I can handle that. Right.

And it's not even like a situation, Derek, where, you know, she's working, and she's like, "Hey, but when I become a mom, I want to be full-time at home, and that I want my job to be that." Right? I want to transfer home and be a full-time mom, but there's no initiative at all in who she is and what always that fear is to me is that that starts to bleed into other areas of your life. You know what I mean? Of like this procrastination Just apathy.

apathy or laziness or like I don't know what it is, but I'm like, man, yeah, it's just not very it's not a lot of attractive qualities that come out of that. And I'm not saying that she needs to like go be some corporate woman climbing the ladder and working 80 hours a week. It's not even that, but it's just like, yeah, I want the dignity to have my own money. I'm 26.

I've been in school for what? 8 years? >> know how you drag out a bachelor's degree for 8 years. That's honestly impressive. [laughter] Is she just taking like part-time classes or like flunking every time?

Uh that's she's she's had to retake a lot of classes where she's Failed? said

she wants to get into like a a master's PhD program, and so she has a 3.8 GPA,

All right, Derek. All right. For those reasons, I'm out. I mean, I'm sure she's a wonderful person, but this is not someone I want to continue down the path with personally based on what you told me.

Cuz what's so hard, Derek, when you get to this point of a relationship and like and George knows this. He's been he's married, and so am I. But, it's like you have the romantic side, right? You you fall in love, they're attractive, you know, you have chemistry.

Like, all of that stuff is great. But, then what ends up kind of where like the rubber meets the road is when real life happens, and it's like I've chosen someone in my life >> a partner in this life. >> Yeah, to walk life with, and life isn't easy.

A little grit. Yeah, and and none of that is coming through right now. In a And I don't want to blame her for her brothers, but the whole family situation A lot of dysfunction here. that a 31-year-old man is still in school.

Like, that's her brother. And that's who you're marrying into, too, Derek. Who's hiring this guy? >> [laughter] >> I see on your resume here you've been in school for 13 years and have yet to get a bachelor's degree. Sure, you get the job. >> Derek. >> I'm so sorry, Derek. This is >> do you think? What What do you think?

>> What's your next step? Uh so, that's my next step was to to

allow her to some time to get a job and if she wasn't willing to work, you know, 15 20 hours a week, it was kind of the end. I think I think that's fair. I Yeah, I don't think that's unreasonable and you're not, you know, looking for her to make 100, you know, it's like, "Oh, well, she's not making 100,000 a year. She's not You know, it's nothing to do with that.

It's just the effort as a human and an adult in the world today.

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>> [music]

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walking you through the Ramsey plan and it has so many advanced features to really help you make progress faster, it makes things convenient and easy to see and it's incredible. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So, there's this big questionnaire you go through and there's recommendations on what to do with your current situation and it is incredible. So, start EveryDollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or on Google Play.

All right, up next we have Gabe in Kansas City. Hi, Gabe. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are you guys? We're doing great.

How can we help? Yeah, um so, how do I stop spending

everything I make so I can start reaching financial goals for myself? Oh, interesting. What are you spending money on? Well, honestly, um mostly DoorDash, um

but then just random stuff. Like I always find a way, no matter how much money comes in the paycheck, to spend it all.

It's fair. Love will find a way. Have you thought about [laughter] uh like deleting the DoorDash app and forcing yourself to go inside of a grocery store?

Yeah, well, I actually did I did that like 2 days ago.

Um and like you said, love will find a way. It's just like a creeping addiction, you know? It's like >> see like the zucchini you bought 3 days ago and you're like, "Ah, DoorDash sounds better. I'm redownloading it." Uh yeah. Like going back to an abusive ex.

Two of zucchini? Why don't you at least say like Well, we all aspirational grocery shop, you know what I mean? We're like, "You know what? I'm going to eat a zucchini." >> to eat a whole bag of spinach.

>> a good Instagram air fryer zucchini recipe. I'm going to, you know, >> of spinach. >> Well, Gabe, here's the thing. What are your financial goals? Cuz I think they have to be big enough and powerful enough to a fuel your love of DoorDash to stop that.

Yeah. Well, first is get a car, then

after that a house, and then after that crack the million mark in net worth.

Love it. Those are great goals. >> Okay. That's the American dream summed up. What are you doing for a living right now? Uh right now it's not good. I'm actually um working for the master. I feed I DoorDash a lot from my paycheck.

Wait, what? >> [laughter] >> Well, no wonder it's easy cuz you're around it all the time. Like this Taco Bell Wait, do you drive for DoorDash?

Yeah. >> Okay, you're not working for like DoorDash corporate. You're like a No, he's a DoorDasher. He's Okay, how old are you? >> food for people.

Yeah. How old are you? >> I'm 20. You're 20, okay. Are you in school? Did you not go to college? What happened? Yeah, well, I'm in school for business management right now.

Okay, what do you want to do with that?

Well, um ideally, you know, um you get a short-term management job

to kind of build up a nest egg and then go out on my own and try my hand at the entrepreneur preneurial I I can't talk.

>> Yeah, no, you're good. So, you want to work in management of something. Like is it retail? Is it corporate? Have you sort of drilled down into that to what you'd be most into?

Yeah, I'd be most into corporate, but obviously, if someone offers me a job paying more than DoorDash, then I'll take it at this point. Have Okay, how much longer in school? >> Yeah. When do you graduate?

Uh I'm expecting next summer.

Okay. Cash flowing it or are you going to debt? I'm cash flowing it. Great. Do you have any debt?

I have $200 in credit cards. Okay. We

got that. It's good. Um okay, Gabe. You know what? I'm going to say you're I'd say you're a typical 20-year-old guy. I don't think there's anything wrong with you. I think you need a little bit of motivation. Um and I think when you're in school, you have a part-time job, um you know, you got [clears throat] to just float your expenses. So, I mean, are you living at home? How What What are you doing like for rent and all of that?

Yeah, no, right now I'm living at home, which probably doesn't help the spending. Yeah, well, it's fine. I mean, you're in college, so I think that's totally appropriate. Um so, do you What do you have to pay for? What are the things that are you're responsible for?

Uh right now it's just my phone and gas.

Phone and gas, okay. And what are you making every month?

Uh it actually it varies, but it's usually about two grand a month. Okay.

Okay. Cuz if I'm you, I have very little motivation to even go work when my only two things I need to survive is covering a phone bill and gas. >> And because you're a full-time college student. So, you're in college You're You're in college.

Um which I don't think it's bad. >> Yeah, that's great. You're in college. You're You're doing well in your classes.

You're going to graduate on time.

And so, you can do this You can even automate some of this. I don't always recommend that for people cuz I kind of like people's behavior to change cuz they're actually the ones doing it. But for you, I would almost say, "Yeah, make Make it a goal where you save, you know,

half of that. Maybe you save What if you save $1,000 a month? Cuz how much is your phone and gas cost?" Not much. It usually shakes out to around three, four hundred. Okay. So, yeah, what if you gave yourself 600

bucks to spend on how you want and then

save half of your income. And you do that for the next, golly, 6 months, you'd have $6,000 when you graduate.

That'll help you upgrade a car and actually start moving. But But you can even go in and automate some of this.

Like you can, you know, set up some systems in place with online banking and that kind of thing that when your paycheck hits, Um like pay yourself first. >> Yeah, absolutely. I'd be giving some too. I think there there's a practice of generosity in there. Give um you know, it's ever how much you want, but even 200 bucks a month.

Practice that part, practice the saving part, and then you can still enjoy some of it. So, I think you're in a good spot. I think it's just the habits and the routines uh month to month that you need to change. When you kind of get those in place, you start to be disciplined, you start to know what you're doing, you're telling your money what to do, and then when you graduate and you get your first job, those habits just go in from a $2,000 a month um to maybe a $5,000, $6,000 a month salary and, you know, you've you've changed the way that you handle your money.

Okay. I was exactly like you, Gabe. I'm looking back at when I was >> You were not that much of a spender.

>> No, I But when I was living at home, I was working at the Apple Store. >> Yeah. And every paycheck would just go to like gear and just spend I didn't have I wasn't saving any of it.

>> Well, because there's no urgency. So, it makes sense. >> so, I just I remember feeling that way, Gabe, and what unlocked it for me was getting out of the house. I moved across the country, started fresh, finished school, and that sort of put a new pep in my step to go, "Listen, Mom's not going to save you with her home-cooked meals.

>> Do you I don't think he should move out though. Do you think he's in college? >> saying once he graduates though, he needs to just go ahead and find an actual job. >> like >> Don't stick around home saying, "Well, I could save up for a house faster." And then all of a sudden you spent 500 bucks on DoorDash every month.

>> That's right. Yeah. So, when you graduate, you need to move out. That needs to Like create some problems for yourself cuz we are wired to solve problems and right now, you just don't have many, which is not a bad thing, but if you want to accomplish your financial goals, you kind of need to have some some uh you know, some mojo.

>> [laughter] >> Uh Gabe, what kind of car do you have right now?

Well, right now I don't have anything.

I'm driving my dad's for DoorDash. Oh.

Whoa. How does he feel about that?

He feels fine about it because he does it part-time, too. So, you know, he doesn't really mind. Okay.

Well, I would make that a goal then. I think that's a great You said that, but I would re Yeah, I would reiterate.

Yeah, if you say And if you saved $1,000 a month, Gabe, I mean, you could have a $6,000 car in 6 months. You know what I mean? Like it Do you have a high-yield savings account, Gabe?

Yeah, I do.

I'm shopping around for another one cuz I'm not a fan of the one I have.

>> Perfect. We got just the one for you. Go to fairwinds.org/ramsey.

They just created a new bundle for our fans. It's got a great high-yield savings account, so you can actually attach your checking and savings and then start to automate that thousand bucks a month just go straight from checking into that high-yield savings.

And like Rachel said, if you automate that, you'll just pretend the thousand bucks never existed. So, pretend you make a thousand bucks a month and now we have to work live off of that. That helped retrain my brain as well.

Okay. Yeah, make sure to check that out and you'll get the Ramsey debit card with that bundle.

And it says debt is normal, be weird.

You're not deeply in debt, Gabe, but at least you kind of get that reminder.

Yeah, every time you see >> Especially as you enter adulthood, it's so easy to be tempted to take out the car loan, open the credit card, go into debt, take out the personal loan, whatever it is. And so, this will help you avoid that temptation. But >> Yep, for sure. This is very natural.

You're 20. You're not weird. You're just 20. >> Yep, just put some disciplines and new habits in place. I think you're going to be fine. But [music] George Camel is a spender. What can I say? Left to my own devices with Mama Camel cooking at home.

>> Unbelievable. I'm spending every $16 an hour [music] I make.

>> [music]

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Today's question comes from Mason in Michigan. Is Dave's stance to only buy a cell phone in cash or is he okay with putting it on an installment plan with a cell phone provider over two or three years?

Couldn't tell you Dave's stance. I could guess Dave's stance, but we can give you George and Rachel's stance at least. I don't want to put words in the guy's mouth. He's not here to defend himself.

Uh but the simple answer is yes, only

buy a cell phone in cash. An installment plan is effectively debt because you have to finish paying off the phone before you actually own it. And you're also locked into this contract for two or three years. So, if anything happens, you want to switch, you want to change phones, well, you're kind of stuck in these handcuffs with that cell phone provider. And so, I always recommend buying a phone in cash. And if you can't afford the brand new iPhone 16 Pro Max

with 512 GB, then don't buy it. You can

buy a used phone. In fact, I just sold a used phone online within a day. I got great money for it.

>> And you were laughing at some guy's phone in the lobby. It was like an iPhone 6. It was so vintage. It had the one lonely little [laughter] lens. We were taking pictures and George I never even noticed that stuff. George is like the Apple guy. He's like, "Hey, is that the Is that the iPhone model four or whatever?" >> Apple Store employee, as you can tell.

>> the guy in the lobby with the with the phone, he's doing great. >> He's thriving. >> a great life. >> Thriving.

>> He's fine. So, you can buy a cheaper phone if you need to. All's going to be okay. >> I feel like these installment plans also have caused like cell phone inflation cuz the cell phone companies like, "We can charge whatever.

They'll just put it on payments." >> Yes. >> So, it's part of the problem and it causes you to get into a cycle where you're It's like a gateway drug to other payments.

They promise 0% too. Well, and the thing always is when you get stuck in a system where you have to you're locked in and you cannot get out, that's not fun. Like that's not that's not what you want to do. So, that's essentially what debt is and essentially when the what these kind of plans are. So. That's the simplest answer. >> Good question. All right. >> hope he's buying an iPhone.

Don't be an Android guy. Oh, come on, George. I'm not an elitist. Such a judgmental. Do you know I had an Android? Did you? Yeah, I had a BlackBerry. This is back in like 20

2007 or something, but it was a BlackBerry. >> That doesn't count, does it? >> And then an Android.

Oh, >> [laughter] >> that doesn't count. I'm giving you my my cell phone. I was I was a Nokia user and

then a BlackBerry and then an Android for two years and I swore I would never get an iPhone. I don't know why. I didn't like them. I didn't like the people that had them. There we go.

That's the real answer. >> like 2010. And now you've changed. Now you are that person. >> Now I'm that person and I've been that person >> I kid. I like to upset the Android people with their green bubbles. I don't need you in the group chat, all right?

That's all I'm saying. All right. Okay, let's go to Lauren in Kansas City. Hi, Lauren. Welcome to the show. Hello, hello, everybody. Hello. How can we help? Okay, so my question is should I take

money out of my savings to start a small business to hopefully, you know, make more money to save more money cuz at this point I think I'm on baby step six.

I just own a three-bedroom condo technically in Branson, Missouri and I'm trying to pay that off as quickly as possible, but I'm literally working 80 hours a week to try to get ahead and I'm killing myself. >> Oh, girl. What are you doing for work and what do you make?

Um well, I am a property manager at a Choice Hotel and well, I make 20 an hour, but so that's not even 40 grand a year. I'm a front desk agent at the Hilton and that's 16 an hour, so I probably make about 34 a year if I'm lucky after taxes. And you're legitimately working two full-time jobs?

Yes. Like right now I'm I'm at the Choice Hotel and then I leave here at 2:30 to work 3:00 to 11:00. What does the growth track look like in the hospitality world where you can make 75K

a year? >> to start a small business is what You want to leave this industry completely?

Uh maybe not completely. I want to do the If the business got busy enough, I would leave the hotel business, but if not, I just want to as extra income cuz I'm more passion more passionate about events and entertainment and mainly party planning.

Um So, pitch us your small business idea.

How much is it going to cost and what is what's it going to be?

Okay, so I want to rent out photo backdrops. You know, like those florals, like the pretty stuff people stand in front of to take pictures at like bridal showers, baby showers, weddings, Mother's Day. And I do have a couple of connections like with the Hilton and the convention center in town and Cuz there's a lot of weddings and events there. >> these before, Lauren?

Um I have, but it's just like I have two backdrops that I own personally and I've rented them out a handful of times.

>> And how how expensive how how much money can you make by doing that? Like if an event rents out one of your backdrops, how much are you making?

Well, um depending on the backdrop, I mean a hundred well, $200 for the most basic one and like up to $400 depending

on how fancy the backdrop is. But my issue is I only have two and they're not fancy. So, if I invested in a more backdrops, it's going to cost me anywhere from three grand to five grand just to have a handful of backdrops.

Okay, and how much do you have in your savings?

Um 30,000.

>> 30, nice.

Um Are you single? Kids?

>> Yes, no children.

Yeah, so is $25,000 a good emergency

fund for you? Do you feel comfortable with that? Feels like a lot. >> Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah, I would take

cuz I only owe 54,000 on my condo, so I

was trying to just, you know, get up to 60, pay it completely off, and then, you

know, my 5,000 would be my emergency fund, but it was like, should I try to do the side gig or the side project business to make more money quicker without killing myself? How much of this can you do on your own without hiring other people? Cuz you're kind of stuck trading your time, right? You got to bring the backdrop, set up the backdrop, break down the backdrop.

You got to keep it local to where it's drivable. Exactly. Um um for the most part, I can do it all by myself. Now, in addition to the backdrop, I also do balloon arches and those can be anywhere from a hundred bucks to three hundred bucks depending on how much time it takes and how many balloons it takes.

That's 2,400 bucks. Yeah, that's 2,400 bucks a month. Um I mean It'll be more popular during, you know, like uh special events and the holidays like Christmas, New Year's Eve. Sure.

Sure. Cuz ideally you could get to the place where this replaces the front desk job that you're making 34.

And if you could do this instead, you know, maybe still keep the other one, but um replace at least one of these so that you're just working a few hours versus till 11:00 every night you know, at the front desk. That That seems worth it to me and it seems like it's been somewhat proven out the fact that you're You got connections, you've done this before, you've made money. So I would Yeah, if you're going to spend cash on this and go with a small investment up front with 3 to 5 grand, I would go for it and see where you can take this thing and see how you might end up needing to hire someone out because you're working and can't be at every single event in all places at one time, but maybe you pay them, you know, 15, 20 bucks an hour to go set it up and break it down and you still make profit.

Yeah, exactly. And it it doesn't um take long. I mean, they're heavy and kind of annoying, but it it literally takes me like not even 30 minutes to set it up um

and, you know, get it in place and then 30 minutes to break it down and put it in my car. It's great. I also drive a Prius. I was going to say, I feel like you're going to need a pretty big car to carry all these backdrops. So what I don't want you to do is go I had to finance a $50,000 van to transport the

backdrops. So just be smart about it.

I think my car's been paid off for 9 years, so I'm going to let it, you know, die on me. Well, Lauren, you've been very smart.

You don't have any consumer debt, you have a lot of savings, you're taking your time, you're working to pay off the condo. I mean, you're doing your your gut so far is correct what you've been

doing. So um yeah, I trust you. And maybe I'd say I'd work on saving up and cash flowing a SUV or van so that you can use it for business and increase your income that way, too.

Yeah, cuz I also wanted to like not just do the backdrop, but you know, make it pretty, you know, purchase a few um like

benches, which I have a couple, but they're like fold up benches I can fit in the Prius. Mhm. I love it.

I Yeah, I can't get couches and stuff because Yeah, that's a lot.

>> For sure. Just go slow and be smart about it. Use profits to reinvest in the business and start to grow this thing and see where it goes. >> Yeah, people love a balloon arch these days, Lauren. Ladies love a balloon arch. >> You're in a great business. [music] The men could do without them.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds [music] Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachel Cruze with George Kamel and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Up next we have Emma in Minneapolis. Hi

Emma, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you so much. Absolutely. How can we help today?

So I am a senior in high school. I'm freshly 18 years old.

Um and I got into my dream college and I

don't know how to tell my parents.

Wow, I thought there was going to be something bad that happened, but this is good. So give us the context of why this is bad news for your parents.

Um so my dream school for my whole life

has been um University of Northwestern, St. Paul.

Whole life? Since you were zero years old, you're like this is on my my dream Pinterest board.

Is that that's a Is [laughter] that a private school?

Yes, it's private and Christian. Yep.

How much is that tuition?

It's about 38,000 a year. Okay.

Um Okay. So what have you and your parents talked about when it comes to college?

Um so I've known for a very long time

that my parents were not going to help us we're not going to help me with college. Um I'm the oldest of six kids and we live on just my dad's income.

Okay. And so they don't want me to go there

because they don't want me to go into student

loan debt, which I understand. Yeah. Um

100%. >> haven't I think you have probably 99% of people listening to this saying, yep, we agree with your parents. We We are um and so you've not told them

because you're going to go and you're going to go take on essentially over 4 years $160,000.

What I haven't told them is that I got

Yeah. What I haven't told them is that I got a partial ride scholarship.

>> Oh, well, that's great. Okay, so how much does that cover?

Um it covers about $44,000 over all four years.

Okay. So you're down to like you'll owe 120 or something. What's the number?

It's $11,000 a year for all four years,

so I'm down to like $105,000.

Okay.

And how much do you have saved?

I actually do not have a savings account. I have been um helping my parents with the bills and stuff. I work for the >> So they're struggling financially?

Yes. Okay. Oh, wow. And you're working

part-time and that money that you're working for is going to the household.

Yes. Was this a something you're doing out of kindness or was it like a hey, if you're going to live under our roof, you got to help around cuz times are tough.

No, it's kindness.

Okay. >> And they're and they're and they're they're taking your money.

I mean, they're taking it. No. Um they So I contribute I help pay um for groceries and stuff.

And I am aware that some of the money that I am paying them, they're putting in a savings account for me.

I just don't know how much that is.

So we can get some clarity on that. We got to know if it's a thousand or ten thousand.

I think if my math is right, it should

be around 8,000.

And what if it's zero? What if they spent it all?

I don't know. Yeah. Well, I hate to say it. I mean, I know there's you know, people are in different circumstances financially, but asking an 18-year-old to help provide for the family, that's tough for me.

Um so I would I would hope that they just took the money and put it in a savings account, but I would ask them tonight because it is October and if you're a senior in high school, you know, you're starting to get early I mean, it's what you you're doing. You're getting college. Um you're you've sent out college applications, you're getting the letters in, you're figuring out your next steps and you do that around this time.

next 9 months of like what you have to work with and staying within that. So um I want to be really kind because I really appreciate the dream school. I know that, you know, you've thought about it and all of it, but

there is a sign of maturity, Emma, that

when you choose to live within your means, you don't get to do everything you want.

And that's a true sign of an adult. And we talked to people on the show that are 45 that don't even grasp that.

And so I would implore you that your friends, Rachel and George, can tell you in the real world, when you go out to get a job, majority of people don't care what's on your diploma. They really don't. Some Some care that you have a four-year degree. I mean, that's a I think a great um thing to have, you know, so I I I think that's great.

But people don't care and they don't know, you know, the the name of the school and all of that.

be successful and get a job that's going to

then carry you for your throughout your adulthood.

And going at $120,000

or $105,000.

Um I think it's a little bit I think it's going to end up being a little bit more than that after room and board and both everything. Um What are you studying?

I was planning on double majoring in

pastoral ministry and communications.

Emma. Emma, we just talked to a worship pastor who's making 53, 58,000 a year. And he's

been doing it a long time. >> It would take you 60 It would It would take you like 7 to 8 years to pay this off.

No. No. Please. Please. Please, no. What do

you What do you want to do on the other side of this? Tell me the job that like if I could just do this job, it would be a dream.

Um summer camps director. Okay. For like for a summer camp. I love the clarity there. Here's the good news. I don't think you need a communication degree or even a pastoral studies degree to be a summer camp director. You know what you need? Experience at a summer camp

where you work your way into a director role. >> you can do for free. So this is actually great news. This gives me so much hope for you that we can avoid a crisis.

Cuz here's what I'll let me play this out and you can go watch the Bard Future documentary we did on the student loan crisis. I think it'll help help you understand some of what we're talking about. My fear for you is that you can never be a summer camp director because there is no summer camp director job that pays enough to cover the payments on the student loans that you end up taking out. So you're going to have to go get a job.

You're going to have to end up being, you know, an administrative assistant or something. I mean, which is not bad, but you're not going to get to do what you want to do in life because you're going to have bills to pay for years for for years and years and years and years for a Christian private education that you didn't need.

Um Now would it be a great time going to the school? I think so. But is it worth 120 grand for the price to have this experience? I don't think it is at this point.

Now if you had a full ride and you were like, I just want to do this for fun, I'd go good for you. Go for it. But I just I I got into my dream school, Emma, when I was 18 and it was 50 grand a year for 4 years and going to a film school and I said, I don't think I can stomach 200 grand in student loan debt to maybe be a film director one day. And I think that was the Lord saying, please don't do this, young man.

Yeah. Cuz when you look when you look at scripture, Emma, every time debt is mentioned, it's in a negative fashion. Now it's not a sin if you end up going you're going to get to heaven with student loans. You're fine, right?

It's not a sin. [music] But every time it's mentioned, it is negative. It's a curse. It's you are a slave to the lender.

It is not wise. Go read Proverbs. Go read Proverbs. What God has set before you.

And [music] before you make this mistake, Emma, please listen to your parents. They're giving you good wisdom. And figure out how much is in that account.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> I'm George Kamel joined by Rachel Cruze.

This is the Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

We're heading to Tampa next to talk to Corey. How can we help, Corey?

Hi there. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's going on?

I'm contemplating selling my small

business to accept a job that would increase my total income to

try and get out of this debt that we're in as quick as possible and I'm just trying to make sure that I'm doing the right thing.

Okay. How much debt are you in?

Uh right around 100,000 before my

mortgage. Okay. And what kind of debt is the 100,000?

Um let's see. We got 35 is allocated

towards the small business. It's a It's a food truck. Um so that was a startup loan from friends and family members. Um about 30,000 in student loans. Uh 10,000

to fix the AC.

Um and then about 20

2,000 in uh or no, 25,000 in vehicles.

Okay. And what is this business worth if you were to sell it?

Um I would estimate around 42,000 to

just sell the trailer.

Um and then I also have a truck that I bought to use with the business that I could potentially let go as well. What's that worth? Um it's worth right around 13,000 and I

owe 50 18,500 on it.

Okay. So you're 5 grand underwater on that. Okay. So you would get uh 55k essentially for selling this business?

Correct. >> And you need another five to get out of the underwater loan and you're about 100k in debt. So this gets you out of debt twice as fast and what's the household income now?

Um right now my wife just got a promotion. She makes seven 67 before bonuses with potential

12,000 in bonuses.

Um I make about 550 at a part-time job a

week. And then the trailer, we really

don't take a paycheck from it. I just whatever profits at the end of the month I throw at debts, which is averaging

between um you know, 2,000 and 3,500 a month.

Okay. So all together you guys make about 100k a year?

Roughly.

It's It's not including the trailer in any way, shape or form seeing as how I don't take a paycheck from it. Yeah. It's It's closer to like 85 to 90. And what's the

new job, Corey, that you're looking at?

Uh I would be taking a chef position at the part-time job now, which would get me up to um 73 guaranteed with a potential 12,000

bonus as well. Amazing.

Um for the food truck itself, is it something you would go back to doing after you Like if you were completely debt-free, would you still keep this keep doing this or are you getting burned out? Uh well, I've kind of burned out on it. Um been doing it for about 2 and 1/2 3 years working 7 days a week, you know, 70 80 90-hour weeks.

Um and just it was never supposed to be the end-all, be-all. It was supposed to be a stepping stone towards a brick-and-mortar location and it's just looking like the reality of it puts it, you know, 5 6 7

years down the road and I just don't think that I could put my family through that hardship. >> Yeah. Totally. That's mature of you.

Yeah. And I think I mean, I think you're listening to your gut and I think you're you're seeing kind of the tea leaves of what's happening, which I think is really smart, Corey. Really, really smart. Especially when you talk about the food industry.

We've gotten calls of people um that go straight to want to go straight to the brick and mortar and take out a massive loan. And the food industry is one of the highest ones that, you know, the highest parts of of small businesses that goes up and it goes down and it It closes more than any other industry. Uh it's just a And as you experienced with the food truck, it is just a It's a tough It's a tough world to be in. It's a lot of work.

A lot of work. And again, not always with the guarantee that it's going to be successful.

>> You're going to get a 50 grand raise while getting rid of half of your debt.

>> And you're still doing the thing you love. You're still able to, you know, be in that world of of cooking and food and um hopefully innovating.

>> Yeah. I mean, like to me, this is kind of a no-brainer, honestly, cuz I don't know. You kind of get to still live your dream but not have to deal with owning anything right now.

Right. So yes, I would, Corey. >> do it. I'd try to get top dollar for your trailer and the truck. And do you have anything in savings?

Um we have uh right around 2,000 in our

emergency savings and then I have about 2,000 cash that just kind of floats around for uh expenditures. Okay. You may want to wait another paycheck or two, get that 5,000 difference that you're underwater on so that you have the money to actually get rid of the note on that truck.

Okay. >> way you're not having to take out another loan to clean this up. And then I'd take that new job, man. And I I would clean this mess up. You're probably get I mean, you'll be making what, 150k household at that point?

Roundabouts. Yeah, you know, it's not guaranteed. Um you know, so it's there is a little bit of a fluctuation on it. Sure. And then, you know, we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we But making about 150 with 50k left to pay off, that's going to get knocked out real quick. Versus your situation now, which is we make 80 90 with 100 to

pay off. The The math ain't mathing on that one. So we do need some drastic changes. You're willing to do it. You're burnt out on this. And guess what? Later on down the road, you may decide to do this dream again, but you're going to do it with cash, with more experience, while making more money. And so I don't want you I know it's It's hard to grieve something that you put your heart and soul into and I can tell you're passionate about it, but there's also wisdom in going now's not the time.

Yeah, and you know, we we just found Dave Ramsey and your whole system a few months ago and we have made considerable progress towards our debt.

We we always live all of our debts from

3 years previous. We haven't gone into any debt in the last 3 years. We were just paying minimums and then we read um

you know, uh Total Money Makeover and we've started trying to get out of this debt. We're still struggling with the budget somewhat. You know, I feel like there's still more room for cutting some expenses, but it's just you know, been a little bit of a struggle. Yeah, and and just to give you some some hope and I mean you guys have just been doing this a couple of months and even with the budget we we say it usually takes about 3 to 4 months to really get in the cycle of doing it and and it actually be correct that you can live on.

So, you guys are just starting out and the fact that you're so gung-ho about it, I mean you you're going to make great progress.

The numbers will start to give you some hope instead of going, "Oh my gosh, how are we going to fix this puzzle?" And so I'm we're wishing you the best, Corey. Appreciate the call. >> you know what? Hold on the line, Corey. Christian will pick up and we'll give you every dollar premium for a year on us and this is our budgeting app that hopefully will um help get this a little bit more organized. It's a very It's a great app because it it's very fine-tuned. Like you get to see all the categories. Yes.

>> All right, let's go to Kathy in Boston.

How can we help, Kathy?

Hi. Hey. What's your question?

Okay, I'm 67 years old and I'd like to

retire in 3 years and I do have uh money

[clears throat] in stocks and bonds and mutual funds and I'm not sure if I should keep it there or if I should maybe switch to annuities or IRA CDs. I

didn't know what the best way to go.

Well, I mean switching to annuities and and IRA CDs, you're talking about really lowering your ability to make any money.

And so you're just sort of preserving what is. And you know, if you're 67,

there's a good chance you live to 87 if you're in good health, right?

Yes. >> And so I want to see your money grow beyond the rate of inflation. So, what is your money in and how much?

Um I have approximately 250 216,000.

And that would be like stocks, bonds, mutual cuz I have it in three different places that kind of manage it.

Okay. What else? >> And then I do have I get have social security. Okay. And then I work and I

work. Okay. So, what's your plan to actually retire? How will you cover your expenses in retirement?

Just with my investments and the money I have and of course my social security.

What are your monthly expenses?

Oh, um let's see.

Maybe maybe 1,600 a month maybe I mean 2,000

would be way overkill. Okay. And what's your social security payment going to be?

Uh 2,100 after tax. Oh, nice.

>> So, that's enough to cover the baseline bills for now without more inflation.

And I would leave your money invested in the market. I wouldn't go to you know, search for a 4% return when what we're seeing in the market I just checked my 401k last year, Kathy.

37% >> [music] >> return when I just left it in and didn't touch it and left it in the overall market and growth stock mutual funds versus those less risky, but lower return things like those CDs and [music] annuities. So, I would stay on your plan. This is the Ramsey show.

>> [music]

>> This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Welcome back. Going to the [music] phones, we have Sarah in Riverside,

California. Hi Sarah, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for having me. Absolutely.

How can we help?

So, I have some guilt and pride around

using uh child support money. So, I was

in an abusive relationship and by the grace of God I was able to leave when my son was about 3 weeks old. Oh my gosh, Sarah. >> now husband um when my son was 6 months old and he's now 12.

Um my husband and I had sat and talked and said, "We don't want any money. We don't want anything. We want nothing to do with him." Mhm. Well, the judge made the decision that it's not our choice and it's not our money. Um it's for our son. So, we we're just putting all that money in an account. Um we had some debt and um in 2021 I lost my job and we

needed four walls. So, we dipped into

that account. Um as of January of 2025, we are

officially done with baby step two. We are completely debt-free. >> Oh, congratulations.

Thank you. It's very exciting. I'm really happy to be there. Mhm. Um but I have about $4,000 from that child

support money that we said we'd never use. Um and I'm wondering if I should just pay it back like a debt and just keep going like if we were on baby step two or I mean the connotation of the child support money in the first place just kills me.

And I don't know what to do about it.

So, so this this guilt, Sarah, I'm just double-checking that the facts are correct. You didn't use this money immorally. It was more of a conviction that you personally had with it because of who it came from and you just the thought of using it just feels gross and you had to use it at one point. Um but but from a legal standpoint, you used it exactly how anyone else would use it, right? To help run the household because you're you you're taking care of a child and that other parent is helping with that, correct?

Exactly. >> Yeah. And what was the court order? How much and for how long?

Um it was originally it was until he was 18 and it was supposed to be $430.

Um the only money that I've actually seen from that is the COVID money. Um I

was able to get his COVID check. I didn't know that it was coming.

Um my husband um adopted our son when he

was 4 years old, everything finalized, so that's when the child support stopped. But there's so much arrears that I mean I will still randomly get like a $12 check. Um Okay, so it's it's

over essentially. You're not getting future payments. No. >> have this kind of saving sitting here and you feel like I don't want to I don't want to touch this money cuz it feels weird. >> much is in that account?

Um in the account right now is um 2,000 and I used four of it.

>> Four of it. And what are you going to play What are you going to do with it eventually? Are you going to give it to him when he's 18 or or help pay for a car when he's 16 or college or what do you think?

That's what we were thinking. Um just a car or something like that. Like I said, my son my husband's been around since my son was 6 months old. So, my son doesn't know. Um he doesn't know any different as of right now. Um eventually we're going to tell him. I mean we have to tell him, but we're just not there yet. Um he's not emotionally mature enough to be there yet. Sure. Okay. Um so, what I'll speak to I I'll speak

to the money side of it, Sarah, from the sense that no, this is not a debt that you need to pay. I mean you're you used the money essentially how the system works and you know, you used it exactly appropriately and I know that does it sit well with you because of who it's coming from and that that totally makes sense to me.

financial standpoint understands um understands money, doesn't have to walk through this debt-free journey and we're setting him up in order to do that." And that looks like things like maybe college or um helping with his first car, you know, what whatever that may look like for you guys. And for me, um I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't hold on to that emotional $4,000 anymore because um I I think you I think you need to release that, but I think going forward the motivation now is to pass a great legacy on to your son, right?

So, I unders I totally understand how that can feel like, "Oh my my we used this money and it feels so gross and I hate it cuz I don't he's a terrible person. Um but on but you know, you you guys were in a pinch at the time and that's what that money's for is to help take care of your son and that's what you guys did. So, um I I would I would let go of that cuz emotionally I think it I think it is holding on to you so deeply.

Yeah. So, in the filing cabinet of your brain, we need to refile this instead of child support money from an abusive awful relationship, this is changing my family tree money to set up my child for a better life than the one I experienced. >> Yeah, and Sarah too, you know, give give yourself a little bit of grace, you know, if if this was a $60,000, you know, thing or something and you're like, "Oh my gosh, you were supposed to use it for a down payment on a house." Or you know what I mean? Like a mag- like I feel like like a like a lot of this magnitude and weight from a dollar standpoint, I feel like we could go at it a different way cuz I could see you know, the more money it is, the more weight it feels, right?

So, um so with this 4,000, yeah, I I want you I want you to release it for you, Sarah. Again, it's not about the dollars at that point. To me, it it's it's that emotional attachment that's still there to him. And I I I want that I want that released from you, you know?

So, um whatever that looks like with your own words. >> would have a goal for this money instead of letting it just sit there. It's only going to make you know, reopen the wound. So, I would put it in a 529 plan for a college.

I would put it toward a in a savings account for a car fund one day cuz that day is going to come and these things cost money and this is it's part of the deal. And you know, it's a shared burden because that person was a parent and this is what the court ordered.

You're doing great." But that's the truth of it. It's it's that hard and it's that simple to just go, "All right, it happened. That was the past and I'm going to make a better future for my kid now." And it sounds like you guys are thriving and this child is so lucky to have you, too.

Yeah, we're um he's definitely blessed.

My husband is literally a godsend and he

took him on like his own and like I said, nobody nobody knows. Um there's a couple people like family knows, but he doesn't know and my husband stepped up in more ways than I could ever even pray for. Mhm. Well, Anne, give yourself too

so much credit, Sarah, because we we talked to so many people on this show and women specifically that are in in a situation and they just so they don't feel like there's a way out and um whether from it's financial type abuse where you know, a husband's withholding and not allowing >> Controlling. Yes, to physical, emotional. I mean, you know, you can fill in the gaps and >> is wide. >> And to break that cycle is so so

difficult and as Dr. John Delony says who works um with you know, so so many people in this area, says that there's it's rare to have someone actually break it. So, when you do, it is a it is a >> Something to be celebrated. >> I mean, it really is, Sarah.

So, I mean, I I just commend you for that. I know that was 12 years ago, but that is that's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Yeah, George, when we you know, think about part of the baby steps and what she said, I loved because yeah, it's baby step, you know, they're they're past baby step two.

They're moving on for that fully funded emergency fund and so forth and there there is something so freeing from the sense of yes, uh the dollars and cents are there, right? We're we're being wise with our actual tactical money. That's, you know, very important, but it's so much bigger than that. It is like the place where money sits in our lives, the value of which we give it.

And when you are out of debt, you have that emergency fund, it's it's you you don't have to be obsessed with it. You don't have to stress about it because you're setting yourself up so well. And what that speaks to your kids in a household is everything. Like to me, that is that's part of family changing the family tree.

>> Yeah, and there's a lot of belief there. People think there's some sort of like financial DNA that you're born with because of the environment and place and parents, but we're proving it with Sarah that you can break chains. You might be the first one in your family to become debt free, to create a better life for your kid, for your kid to go to college debt free, for you to have a home that you own free and clear, for you to become a millionaire. And it's something you get to choose and it's a daily choice and it's one of the hardest patterns to break because of all the shame and guilt from the past and your belief system is so tied up.

And you talk about this in know yourself, know your money. The different money classrooms you grew up in, it really shapes you and you have to really try to break all of the bad stuff to get to the good stuff. >> yeah. Yeah, and as parents, you know, whatever you can do, you know, we always say more is caught than taught, but from again, that that that standpoint of money we're going to get in control of our money because yes, from a monetary standpoint, we need to know where our money's going.

We want to be debt free. We want to start, you know, investing [music] and letting the math work for us. Like all of that. But more importantly, realizing that money's a tool.

It is a tool to create a life that you love. Like that that's what [music] it is. It is not good. It is not bad.

It doesn't have morals. And so, how how can that lessen and where money is placed in your life [music] and in your heart and your identity? What your kids see, that speaks louder than words.

>> [music]

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[music] >> Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. One of the best ways to spread the word [music] we have found is not just in marketing, George. It is word of mouth. It's you guys sharing the show on your social media, sending clips to your friends and your family and just really getting the word out that way. So, we really really do appreciate it.

So, make sure you do that. Leave a review, subscribe to our channels, podcast, YouTube and yeah, we really we really appreciate it. The show it's grown so much, which we're so thankful for and it's a lot because of you guys and we want to help give content into the world that is positive and instructional and inspirational. So, that is what >> way to give back. >> this show is all about. So, and it's your show. So, give us a call at 888-825-5225.

Up next, we have Elise in Little Rock.

Hey, Elise. Welcome to the show.

Hello. Um we bought a property um 3 years ago

and the property owners committed fraud.

They withheld the fact that the well runs dry about half of the year. Oh gosh. >> Um feels like a problem. >> It will cost 24,000 to drill a new well

or 30,000 to bring in city water.

My husband wants to spend our emergency fund on the well, um but I don't think it's an emergency because we've lived with it for 3 years. We spend about $80 a month on laundry.

Um and we're debt free besides the mortgage. My husband works full-time and

makes $60,000 a year.

The other option is we could buy an old well drilling rig for 4,800, but we

don't know if there's any major issues with it. Um

and then we could buy a brand new well

drilling rig for 20 um 2,000. We have 1,100 11

um thousand in our emergency fund, but

once it's fully funded, it will be 18,000.

So, you don't have the money to cover this anyways, even with the emergency fund. If you did the the 24K or 30K option.

That's right. And nothing in the was

there a lawsuit because of the fraud?

Anything legally that they had to pay you guys because they didn't disclose it? We are still in the process, but we um do not believe that we will probably

win the case. We don't believe we will get um the money to cover it.

>> Why?

Um because we believe that she is

doesn't have the money to >> Okay. pay us back for it. Okay.

Um okay, so how long Elise would it take you guys to save up the extra 13,000 to to make

this a possibility for a $24,000 fix?

Um we have saved about um 11,000 in the

last um four or five months.

Okay. So, it'll take us another 6 months probably. >> Okay, to do that. And you don't want to do that. That's not cuz because you're good with how you guys are functioning now. Cuz I mean, I I guess if the well runs dry, do you guys have water? I mean, like what how what is what does life look like on the Is this Little House on the Prairie? How does this work?

Um well, I do laundry at the laundromat.

Um I can only do one load of dishes a

day um and then >> Elise, that kind of sounds miserable.

Is it? >> kind of miserable. Okay, yeah. I would probably save up and get >> categorize this as an emergency.

>> kind of a necessity, you know, your four walls, food, shelter, >> or death, but it's it's pretty close.

Well, I'm worried that if we um spend

our emergency fund on this, uh another emergency will pop up and then we have

no money.

Well, that I mean, that's always risk.

Most emergencies for the most part

you're able to get by with a couple of thousand dollars. So maybe you guys save 28,000, have 4,000 left over just for a little bit of cushion, and that'll be a few extra months, right? So maybe you you give yourself a deadline and say, "Okay, but in 8 months we're going to we're going to fix this well issue." Do it and and still have some some cash left over and then keep saving cuz sometimes when stuff comes up, I mean just like this, this is a great example.

You know, yes, we would consider this an emergency or people have, you know, a tire, you know, goes flat or you could fix that for more than less than less than $4,000, but >> Yeah, but like a a roof or heating and air, things that are like really really really expensive, usually you can buy

some time and be able to save month to month. >> I'm wondering. Is there a temporary fix?

Let's say you bought the used rig. Do you guys know how to do this yourselves or would you still pay someone to actually do the work?

We could do it ourselves. Wow. If you feel capable and >> Are you guys like do you know how to like is that something that's like, "Oh yeah, that's a totally possibility." and your husband's like, "Yep, for sure." It just seems complicated. >> Yes, my Yes, we could for sure do it and we have a friend that has actually built a well drilling system in the past.

>> Okay. Then I feel like you go with this route for now. >> Yeah, why wouldn't you do that route?

Um it just makes me nervous to buy

something that we're not positive would work. What And why why wouldn't it work?

Just cuz it's a used old I mean it's a 19 80s truck that has a old well drilling rig that hasn't worked. >> Can you some Can you test it somehow?

Um yes. >> Or have someone inspect it? >> other ones out there that you guys can rent for a month?

We cannot. I've looked everywhere.

There's no well drilling rigs for rent.

You'd have to buy either a new or you'd have to find a used one somewhere. And most of them aren't big enough because we are drilling through rock and most of them most of the ones that you would buy for 20,000 would drill

through sand or gravel, not

solid rock. >> Okay. Not big enough. I feel like George and I are probably not the I just Beyond our pay grade talking about [laughter] drilling wells. But if I if I was in your shoes and I felt comfortable and capable, I would inspect it, make sure it's mechanically sound, and buy the used one because that's what you can afford right now.

And later on, if that buys you time even to save up 24 grand to do it officially and or to get the city water, I would do that down the line. But for now, I'm I'm willing to drop five grand to see if we can fix this problem and remedy it.

Even for a year or Okay, and it's only 2,400, right? >> 4 4,800 for the used one? There's a there's a used one for 4,800. okay. Talk him down to four. Negotiate him down and see if you can get this thing going.

>> Cuz there ain't I mean there's not a lot of buyers cuz apparently there's not a lot of ones out there. So >> you can sell it once you're done with it and make some money back out of it, right? Yeah, we've also thought about using it around here locally cuz there's only one well drilling company, so >> you got a new business on your hands.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah, well, I hope that helps, Alise. So yeah, maybe maybe do that if you feel capable. I don't know why I didn't have that as an option. That's impressive.

Alise and her husband Well, my first thought was if I I would just go drill it myself. >> I mean I mean George with his with his

with his tools with his tools George could figure it out. Honestly, I think your husband Winston could figure >> [laughter] >> how to drill a well. >> I'd I'd call Winston. Yeah, you two together. I just feel like it would work. I feel like it would work.

>> [laughter] >> So great. Okay, up next we have Andy in

Miami. Hey Andy, welcome to the show.

Hi Rachel, hi George. Huge fan here.

Thanks. How can we help?

So I currently work for a bank and you

guys may not like it, but I underwrite commercial real estate loans.

Uh >> We'll still be friends. >> We can still be friends, Andy. It's okay. >> Thank you. >> [laughter] >> At least not personal loans or residential mortgages. >> There you go, see.

Um so work from home set up, base salary

is around 113 plus some other little

perks, 20k bonus, they'll give me 2,000

toward my 401k just cuz every year, and about 1,000 toward my HSA.

Fully remote, love my bosses, they love me. About four years in.

Um and then I got a message from a recruiter on LinkedIn about a a trade

finance type job. Sounded interesting, but very very far away uh geographically, about an hour to 80 minutes each way per day, Miami, road rage capital of the world. So I was like, "Eh, all right. I'll tell this guy I'm open. He's going to say 120, I'm going to say thanks, bye." He says 150 to 180

plus 20% bonus. Um

so my interest was piqued there and I'm just kind of weighing the pros and cons of uh financial >> Do you guys have Do you guys have a lot of debt?

We are recently on baby step three. I just finished FPU lecture co-leading it

two weeks ago. And you've got a spouse?

Have a spouse, two kids.

This is a move. >> be done with the children. Yeah. Um mother-in-law who's been a huge help is about two miles away.

Oh man, that's tough. That's a big life change. Yeah, I don't Unless you plan on moving, I wouldn't do the hour commute. It's not worth the money.

It's [music] two hours in the car. It's >> to make more doing what you're doing now and stay put. Have the peace. You've set your life up to have peace.

[music] I don't know if I would do it for the money. That would be tough. Thanks for the call, Andy. Thanks to you, America, for listening.

Thanks everyone in the booth, my co-host George Kamel. This is The Ramsey Show.

[music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel, joined by my friend my friend Rachel Cruze this hour.

888-825-5225 is the number to call to join the conversation. Andy is down the road in Nashville. What's going on, Andy?

Hey, not a whole lot. How are you guys doing today? Doing great. What's your question today?

Awesome. So my question is I recently

purchased a home and um I've accumulated quite a bit in debt, which I know you guys practice against. Um so to try and mitigate this debt, I'm

thinking what I'll do is I've got a

house on the property and a shop house on the property. What I'm really looking to do is to move into the shop house and rent out the bigger house, but um seems

like some of the people I've got that are close to me have have advised against this and um you know, I'm just I wanted to ask the pros and they listen to the show, so I'm excited to to hear what you guys have to say.

Okay, so give us some some numbers,

Andy. How much are you in debt?

I bought the house for 250,000, put about 30,000 down, so I've got about

220,000 left on it. Is that your only debt? Is just the house?

Yeah, so actually I sold both vehicles

that I had at the time and now I'm driving around in in beaters.

Um so so yeah, that's my only debt.

Okay. It sounded like you had like racked up some consumer debt, but it's just a mortgage?

It's just my mortgage, yes. >> Okay. And how much do you make a year?

Roughly 130,000 a year. Okay.

And is the mortgage payment overwhelming to you or you're just wanting to do this just to get to get the house paid off as quickly as possible?

So I make the house payment in in less than a week, but the the main motivator for why I'm doing

what I'm doing or thinking of doing what I'm doing is because I'm a truck driver and I just don't make it home a lot. I'm only home about two days a week, so I'm trying to Okay.

Yeah, I I've comped some similar properties in the area that are being rented and you know, I could I could basically come out even if I rented that and stayed in

the shop house. I could have my bills paid for for free, basically.

>> How much is your payment a month?

It's around 1,500 a month. Okay.

Are you married?

Uh I'm not. Uh we're we're getting there. Okay. Does she want to live in the house once you get there?

She So we live in the house currently

and she doesn't want to move out into the shop house even though I think it's nice enough for us. I don't think that it's up to her standards necessarily.

Yeah, I mean it you're not making it sound super enticing. I'll say that. You say shop house, it doesn't sound like a place where a person should live.

>> [laughter] >> So. Well, it it's like an apartment. It if you could imagine a little studio apartment, it's something of the nature of that, but it's it's beyond livable.

It it's nice in my opinion. It's just like >> Okay. Well, and she's the girlfriend. She's living there for free, I'm assuming.

Yes, ma'am. Okay, so I wouldn't want to live in the shop house of my if I was living with my boyfriend and he's like, "You got to go to the shop house cuz I'm renting this out." I'd probably be like, "Great. I'm going to go rent an apartment." And right like she she needs to

do what she needs to do.

Um >> There's some relational risk here. >> I don't want to make the decision based on the girlfriend. If it was your wife, I'd be like, "Andy Andy Andy." But it's

a girlfriend. Like she doesn't have any skin in the game. So >> feels like this is not worth the juice isn't worth the squeeze on this. You don't need to do it. Nothing's on fire.

You have a great income and a very reasonable mortgage. Why not just continue on?

Well, but what's the actual financial problem?

Well, as far as the as far as the financial problem goes, it's just the fact that I've signed a 30-year note on this house and I'm thinking of all the interest that I'm going to pay. >> So pay it off early.

I probably could.

Yeah, the only downside I would think is that if Are you wanting this house long-term, Andy? Like do you see like it'll probably be with you for a while.

I just I always It feels a little weird to have people living in a house for two you know, two or three different families or people um and then you go back and move back into it. Does that make sense? Like I don't know. It's um So >> It just doesn't feel like any of this was intentional. It's just sort of like, "Well, I could do this." And your family's steering you against it why?

What is their big qualm with this move?

They're steering me against it because they know that I can afford it as is and

no one in my family has ever rented out a property before. But the way I look at

it from a financial standpoint is if I live in the shop house double or triple up on payments, I can have a I can turn a 30-year mortgage into a you know, a a three or four or five year mortgage. Sure.

>> And and then I can be off the road at that point as well. So for me it's making sense from a lot of different angles.

>> I'm not mad at it. I mean, I don't think it's necessary I don't think it like what George said. I don't think it this isn't urgent move that I If you had called and I would have been like, "Oh, you have a shop house? Great. You should live in that to rent out your main house." That would not have been my advice to you. Anyways. But if you want

to do it, that's I mean, that's up to you. And you'll make extra payments and but you're just going to have people living in there and then the something's going to leak and break and they'll be calling you on the road. You're going to have to you know, figure out okay, I got to get a plumber down there. I mean, there's legit like It's not hassle-free.

>> It's not just easy money. Right. And I think a lot of people think having a rental there's like it's passive income is what everyone says. And it's a it's there's a level of a responsibility you have that you have to be on call.

You have to be willing to to work with these people whoever's going to live in there. Um But But one thing I do like,

Andy, is that you're not desperate. Cuz then you can actually probably go through a an actual You'll take worse tenants, make worse decisions.

>> and get some good tenants and you know what I mean? Like you're not in a rush.

So I would never suggest you do it. I don't think you need to, but if you want to, then do it. And then >> I don't think it's going to break you, but I don't think it's going to be the sweet sweet free money that you're envisioning either.

Okay. Okay. So do you have savings in the bank? Do you have an emergency fund?

>> Uh yes. Yes, sir. I do.

>> I've got roughly 35,000

liquid. >> You've done really well. >> Yeah, Andy, well done. >> I'm proud of you, man. Seriously. Thank you. I I just think I would set a goal for myself where I still get to live in my own house and then I make extra payments. And so figure out a way to do that and I think you'll cut your mortgage in half or more just on your own volition without ever becoming a landlord.

Okay. That would be my goal. It's great. And once you're married, if she's working, she'll add to it, too. Or she'll help knock down that mortgage if you guys are both working.

I don't know how she's going to like that idea. Her working in the future? Is

she working now?

She is she is a gym coach for little girls and they actually went to the Junior Olympics this year. So That's sweet. >> them. So I I love for her to follow her dream.

Do you think I can make the team?

>> [laughter] >> Well, you could try. I think she'd be happy to work with you. She likes anybody. She's good with people. That's sweet. She sounds like a keeper, man. [snorts] Best of luck to you with this decision. It's not an easy one. I would I wouldn't take it lightly, but I think you have a good game plan here of just figuring out how to do this without becoming a landlord for now. Good luck.

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[music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel joined by Rachel [music] Cruze. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Well, Rachel, we get a lot of questions about investing, the social media world, young people. All they want to hear is about how to build wealth. And it can be overwhelming. It's great.

>> conversation to have. But there's so much noise out there. It can be overwhelming. You can get sort of paralyzed, a paralysis analysis. And a lot of people end up doing nothing because they're scared of doing something but doing it incorrectly. And so I want to set them free today with with some teaching on this on kind of the primer for building wealth. Um and

research has shown that a lack of confidence in making these decisions, it's a primary reason why people don't invest. So they we just need to bring them some literacy and some hope that it's way easier than they think. So here's what we're going to call it, keep it simple stupid. You ever heard of that?

The KISS method. That's what they call it back in my day. So investing is a long game. You're not trying to time the market and buy single stocks.

You don't need to be a prodigy.

It's okay. But before there is a prerequisite if you know the Ramsey plan, you've got to be in the right spot in the Ramsey baby steps. So we've got baby step one, start our emergency fund. Baby step two, paying off all the consumer debt. Baby step three, fully funded emergency fund.

Then comes baby step four.

>> Investing. Yep. >> Make sure you knock those first three out. Otherwise, it's going to be much harder to invest. You're going to add a lot of risk and stress into your life.

But once you're there >> Well, and even those who are investing now and still have consumer debt, when you're paying off that we would even say to pause >> Ooh, yeah. >> investing, too. So truly those first three steps are just like one at a time.

You're doing nothing else but those. But then you get to baby step four and you get to start you get to start investing.

>> It's You start building for the future instead of paying for the past. So this is where it gets exciting. >> Yeah. So the first thing to really think through is what are your goals?

What are you wanting to invest for? Are you investing for retirement knowing I'm not going to see this till I'm 60 years old and I'm putting money away because I'm going to you know, I want to retire at 60 and be able to cash everything out and be great or not cash everything out, but you know, [clears throat] live off those investments. Um is it that you want to maybe open up an index fund or a mutual fund and put some money in month to month because you're looking out in the future and you're like, yeah, we'll probably be putting a down payment on a house maybe in four to five years.

I don't know, but I want to be able to get to that money without penalty. Um so you know, I'm I'm doing that. Is it kids college? Are you investing for kids college in a 529?

subject and narrow it down for you to know what lane you're wanting to invest in. >> And that why will keep you focused and eye on the prize instead of sort of getting all starry-eyed or pulling your money out when you go, "Oh no, this is for this purpose." Yeah, because just so you'll know, we define investing as five years or later, right? Or longer. That's

that's investing for us. Savings is more short-term. You're saving for something in the next month to three, four years.

But when you're talking five years or more, that's where you're like, okay, we can start thinking about this investing idea. >> That's because there's less risk for you to lose money in the short-term versus long-term, we know you're going to make it if you do it the right way. So the next step, once you've decided on your investing goals, you got to figure out how much you're going to invest. And your goals will determine this, but we recommend at baby step four putting away 15% of your gross household income into

tax-advantaged retirement accounts. So simply put, this would be I've got a Roth 401k at work. I'm going to put 15% of my income, my spouse will put 15% of their income. Together, that's 15% of household income. That's a question we get a lot. Wait, do I do seven and a half and she does Nope, cuz 15% of yours and 15% of hers becomes 15% of ours of

the total. So that makes it real simple.

I love that 15%. Don't overthink it. You don't need to do more at this point. You don't need to do any less. Keep it there and don't stop. Yes.

Um and then also understand your investing vehicles. So you were just saying that, George. So when you think about retirement, you guys uh do some research and figure out okay, at my workplace, do they offer a 401k or a 403b? These are great entire investing vehicles to be in um or is there even a

Roth option within it? Cuz Roth means that you it's after-tax dollars and the growth is tax-free when you take it out, which is huge. So if you ever see Roth, jump on that train. It's That's a good one. Um or maybe you know, you're doing a um a Roth IRA, you know, which is another great place to put your money.

A really simple investment, honestly.

>> can do that with their own income. So that's a good clarifying point. You're like, my employer doesn't have an IRA.

That's outside of your employer. So 401k, 403b, those are employer retirement plans. The IRA anyone can do if they have their own income. >> I think $7,000 this year in 2024 that you can put in. So they limit it.

But again, that's another one. So you guys you can sit down with somebody, a SmartVestor Pro or someone to open up, you know, especially like something like a Roth or mutual funds or other things. But you know, you can also go to Vanguard and say, okay, you know, looking into options. I mean like there's there's ways to do this, but just know when you when you open up an account, which again, if you sit down with a professional, which we recommend, they're going to help you with this.

They open up these accounts and they may put money in the account, but then they they don't go and take that and actually invest it.

>> to buy funds with it.

>> That's right. There's an extra step there. So just remember that.

>> It's just like a shell. You've bought you've you have a shell, but now you need to put some stuff in there to allow it to grow. So that's where it comes into choosing different types of investments. We've all heard of stocks and bonds.

Our favorite of these is mutual funds or even index funds. The word fund is the key here. A fund is going to hold a giant basket of those stocks, which helps you diversify and it doesn't put all of your eggs in one basket. >> we may be beating a dead horse as they would say, George.

But that but again, we're getting very simple here with this just so but we we want you guys to know this. Yeah, George does. He loves horses.

>> [clears throat] >> Oh my gosh. Uh is is within these accounts, your 401k at work, a Roth IRA, you're investing in mutual funds within that account. So just to be clear on that. >> Yes.

And so the next step would be picking an investment strategy. And we've mentioned that good growth stock mutual funds, that's the way to go to invest for the long term consistent growth. You're spreading that out among a lot of different companies. And even then we recommend four different types of funds.

And so we'll tell you more about that. I'll give you a great resource to check out. But the key here is diversification. That is why we do this.

That's right. Um and then next that'll be opening the account, kind of what we were saying earlier.

You know, and then you're going to do, remember this formula, Roth, no wait, match. Hold on. Oh no, I just messed it up. I messed it up, George. Roth >> Nope. Match. Start with the match.

>> gosh, match beats Roth beats traditional.

We got there. Oh lord have mercy >> on my soul. Match beats Roth beats traditional. So remember that formula because that's going to help guide you to say, okay, what should I do first?

So again, go up to your match in your 401k. If there is one. If there is one. And so say it's 4%.

Well, you have 15% you got to invest in. So you're going to put that so that means you have 9% of your income left to invest. That's when you're going to go over to a Roth IRA. Fund up to that.

If you max that out and >> Yes. Good lord. It's okay. I The cookie is messing with her.

It's I mean I get I get an Americano, I get a chocolate chip cookie and I go downhill. Um that's right. 11% left. Go back go to your Roth.

And if you max it out and you have more percentages left, go back to your 401k. But the beautiful thing would be a Roth 401k. Love That's what we have at Ramsey. And so for a long time that's what I was doing is just Roth 401k, all 15%.

That's the key. If you Hey, what should I do? All 15% of the 401k? Yeah, if you've got good options and low fees and it's a Roth, go for it. So that it's simple. Match beats Roth beats traditional. And again, this is regardless of the employer match. You were doing 15%. You don't do less because your employer has a match or they give you free money. Even if they give you free 4%, you still do 15%.

>> So the next step, the final step here is working with a pro to start investing and to keep learning. Rachel and I both have a a SmartVestor Pro in our corner as we call them. And the key here is you want someone in your corner who can educate you, who has the heart of a teacher, who can maybe help you avoid jumping off the ledge when the market's crazy, uh help you understand the trends that are happening and give you a full plan, not just with choosing a fund, but what about estate planning and tax strategy and kids college and making sure you have a holistic plan.

>> Yeah, cuz in our world today, I mean there's some stuff, I mean Vanguard's a great example, that you can do on your own, right? I mean very much so. But even if you do that, you guys, having somebody in your corner, and this is what Winston and I do, we meet every January with ours, to look at everything. They're looking at your entire financial life.

And so I think that's so so important that you're not doing this on your own because if you're making big decisions, to have somebody that's [music] yeah, from the tax standpoint, I mean all of it. Just they're seeing your entire financial picture, I think is really really important. >> third party in there. So if you want to learn more, we've got a great article that will that will put in the show notes in the description that explains [music] it all.

It's called how to start investing and it's on the Ramsey Solutions site. So go to the show notes, click the link in the description and [music] it's all free. We just want to help you guys build wealth with peace and confidence. >> to go drink more coffee, George.

>> She needs it.

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Kamel joined by Rachel Cruze. And

in the Ramsey Solutions lobby on the debt-free stage, we've got some new friends, Nicholas and Devony. Welcome, guys. Hi. >> Hi. Thank you for having us. Absolutely.

Where are you guys from? So we're from Calera, Alabama, which is about 30 miles south of Birmingham. Wonderful. And all the way here to your debt-free scream.

How much did you guys pay off? We paid off $232,200.

Wow. And how long did that take? Four years. Nice.

>> Wonderful. And what was the range of income during that time? Uh we started at 82,000 and then up to 163,000.

Wow. >> That's incredible. >> the big jump? Well, our our buddy Ken Coleman would be proud. I took full advantage of the great resignation during COVID. Ah.

So we didn't have that big of a shovel or not as big as we would like. And so I just went job searching and

in less than a week, I found a job and it doubled my salary. Oh my gosh.

>> So are you one income family?

Um sort of. Sort of.

>> [laughter] >> When we paid off the house and she can go deeper into it in a minute, but when we paid off the house, she wasn't the happiest at her job and and I said, you know what? I'm paying off we're paying off the house today, you can put in your two weeks. That's incredible. >> the 238 was the house? Mhm. Well, it was

credit cards, car loans, student loans

and then the house. >> Everything and the house.

Congratulations, you guys. That's incredible. [clears throat] >> That's incredible. So four years ago, you guys had some credit cards, you had the mortgage, you were living normal.

What happened to get you on this Ramsey journey? Well, if you if you look back at it, that's right when COVID first hit. And you know, we had friends, family, you know, we just kind of saw people, you know, struggling and then you know, they turn on the TV, you see people losing their jobs, losing their livelihoods and we thought we were safe, but we just kind of said, what if, you know? And then we dug deeper into our finances and we were like, wow, we're in a mess.

And so we started chipping away at the credit cards.

We did side hustles. She was making she

started making like hair bows for little girls, selling those.

I did DoorDash for a while.

And we started selling stuff just around the house and and Rachel, you'll relate to this. Any old kids toys that we could find that were in one piece. Yeah.

>> [laughter] >> We we'd put on Facebook Marketplace >> Good for y'all.

So we just we just made it happen and did whatever we could to get out. >> Dang. Wow. So there's sort of a pandemic panic.

You guys went, we're we could be like just like those guys 3 seconds from now. Let's get our affairs in order here. Yeah, and I prior to COVID, I was working from home anyway. So like I was safe, but I always think the worst thing is going to happen.

So I'm like, what if I lose my job? What if we both lose our jobs? And so we're like, we need to we need to get out. >> Isn't it amazing how you can carry that risk of debt for so long and until something really shakes it like a pandemic or something, do you realize, oh my gosh, it is risk.

Like these car loans, like all this debt that we're carrying, it is a level of risk that some of you people are used to, but the moment you start saying, wow, this really is a part of our lives that we want out. It's it's incredible. >> Absolutely. And she's, you know, I'm the saver, so it wasn't hard for me to get on board.

And she's the spender and so, you know, she's the one where it's like every day an Amazon box is Totally.

>> [laughter] >> Okay, Devony, how was this for you? This four years? Was it Was it hard? Was it once you got on board and you guys were working together, you're seeing the progress, it was good, but like how did it how did it feel overall?

Yeah, I mean it was definitely a little different at first, especially cuz right around that time our daughter was born and I had my first daughter and of course I wanted her to have all the cute girl things and all stuff like that. So it was definitely hard at first and then I stopped. I was like, okay, like she doesn't need this. And then I started like Nick said, I started making bows and stuff for girls hairs and she did not like them at all.

She wouldn't keep one on her head. So I was like, okay, this there's no point to buy this stuff. So I definitely got there.

took a little bit, but once I started, then I was like, "Oh, like this is great." Oh my gosh. Did you guys know about Ramsey and the baby steps at this point? How did you find out about this?

So, I just when the pandemic first hit, you

know, I pretty much just Googled, you know, getting out of debt and and how to you know, how to clean up this stuff and

and then I bought the Total Money Makeover, read it in one weekend, I think, and then we just kind of kind of just snowballed from there. That's amazing. >> Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah.

>> Wow. Okay, so what would you say to a young family that's listening and they have the car loans and the credit cards and they're just normal living life, but they're feeling like, "Oh my gosh, we want to change." What would you say the key of getting out of debt is?

Yeah, I mean I think for us, I mean you look at us, we're in our 30s and we did this, you know, we we hear people all the time, younger people, it's harder to live these days, you can't buy a house, you can't do this, but they're also hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and it's like, "Well, control what you can control." And so, I mean I mean Rachel, you know, you were born the year your parents filed for bankruptcy.

George, you went from negative net worth to millionaire in 10 years.

You look at us, we both grew up in less than ideal situations. Her parents got divorced when she was young. My parents got divorced when I was young. My dad passed away when I was 8 years old and he didn't have any life insurance. Mhm.

And so, I was raised by a single mother, no help, just trying to figure it out.

So, if we can do it, anybody can do it.

So good. >> And it's just the belief you can. Yeah, absolutely. >> And that's it. It's the belief that you can. That's incredible, you guys.

>> early 30s, on your way in baby step seven, what's the house worth?

So, well, we bought in January 2018

right before the housing market just went bonkers. >> Good time to buy. Yeah, yeah.

>> [laughter] >> So, I mean we we paid less than 200,000

for our house, about 190. And there is homes in our neighborhood selling for over 300 now. Wonderful. That's incredible. And so, you got that paid off and you've been investing in retirement. Yeah, yep, yep. So, now we're doing 15%. We're still trying to save up for the kids college and and all that and we're also cash flowing an international adoption right now, too.

So, this is not our complete family.

That's great. We love it. >> We are Yeah, we are hoping the adoption would be finalized when we came here, but it just kind of you know, worked out this way, but uh but yeah, so we're doing that, saving up for the kids college, investing and you know, we were at a negative net worth significant negative net worth 4 years ago and now we're on the path to be multimillionaires. That's unbelievable.

That's so fun. And when you have the margin to do things like you guys get to just cash flow this adoption with joy and peace instead of stress because you've also got payments. So, I love what when you turn money from an obstacle into a tool, it's amazing how your life changes and I'm so proud of you guys for being a living breathing picture of that. >> Yeah, absolutely.

And I told her, you know, it's she stuck with me these past 4 years and then I know it wasn't the easiest thing, so when we paid off the house, I said, you know, you just pick anywhere on the map and we'll go there for a trip. Oh, so where are you going to go?

>> [laughter] >> We we don't even know. >> a map out. Rachel's going to throw a dart. Yeah, we we've talked about, you know, Europe and you know, going or going on a cruise or whatever. We we don't know. We're going to Yeah.

We'll probably go on a couple trips, one with the kids and one with just us two.

Love it. I know and you have the kids with you. We did Yeah, bring them up.

What are their names and ages? Uh so, Brantley is our oldest, he's 7 and then

Cambry is 4. Oh, precious. Look how

cute. >> they've been practicing for the debt free scream. They're color coded. With the lavender [laughter] outfits. They look fantastic for those of you that can't see them. We'll get a family photo after this is done. That is that is wonderful. >> Here we go, guys. All right.

>> Nicholas and Devin and Brantley and Cambry. $232,000 paid off in 4 years, house and everything, making 82 up to 163.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. All right, Cambry, you ready?

You ready to lead us off? All right, go ahead in the mic. 3 2 1 WE'RE DEBT FREE!

>> [applause] >> That might win the award for cutest debt free scream I've ever seen. >> I just teared up. I was like, I was like, "Oh my gosh." What a performance.

And we've got a special gift for you guys, two EveryDollar Premium gift cards for a 1-year subscription. You can use one, you can renew with that, you can give it away to a friend to get them started on the journey.

And George, and just hearing their stories of even [music] the change that they've made from their childhood to now, what these kids are going to experience, it's absolutely incredible. Beyond the finances, I mean Early 30s, no mortgage in 4 years. Well done, you guys. Well done. It's possible for you, America. Are you willing to make those kinds of sacrifices [music] for 4 years?

I can do just about anything for that amount of time and I know you can, too.

It is worth it. [music] Look at that couple. Look at that journey. This is the Ramsey show.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Psalms 37:21.

The wicked borrows, but does not pay back, but the righteous is generous and

gives. Benjamin Franklin said, "Creditors have better memories than debtors." Oh. Huh. Some old school financial wisdom. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, Ben Franklin, he was doing well for himself, I feel like.

>> You know, the teeth the leg, I don't know what else he had. I don't know what he had going on, but he could afford it. The what?

>> I don't Did he have wooden teeth or something? That was George Washington.

Oh, dang it. Wasn't George Washington?

Guys, I'm not a historian. Listen, I'm not a geographer. >> I hate to I hate to call you out, George. What did you hear?

>> kill me, but that you didn't know who Margaret Thatcher was. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Ken told me that and I thought, "Oh, no, George, the Iron Lady." I didn't know this was stuff I'm Well, then Ken called me out for not knowing what a chain gang is in football. I was like, "Why I don't know what that is. Thank you and you know football. Sort of.

>> [laughter] >> I'm like, "Guys, I was busy, I don't know, having a life." >> Is that a thing? That is. >> It's the people who move the giant markers. >> Oh, but they call them a chain gang?

They had to have a cool name cuz it's not a very cool job. I don't know. Guys, this is why I stick to money questions.

I embarrass myself when I talk about historians and politicians and sports. I stay away from it all. I'll leave that to Ken Coleman. >> Well, the the latest fact history-wise, then we'll get to the phones, but >> Picasso? Yes.

Found out He died in 1972.

>> Died in 1973.

And Rachel was like, >> he was with Leonardo da Vinci. I thought he was part of the Renaissance. I had no [laughter] idea. Wow. >> He just died in the '70s, Picasso. I was like, "What?" I thought all those guys were back with Listen, I got Google.

>> Chapel. I don't know. I don't know. I'll just Google it if I need to know it, but until then, it doesn't sit in my brain.

Sorry. >> Picasso. I mean crazy. Anyways, that's my fact. That just blew my mind. All right.

>> Timeless, timeless. All right, let's get to the phones. We're we're better served there, Rachel, than talking about anything else. >> 401k's. Let's see if we can help Timothy in Los Angeles. What's going on, Timothy?

Hey guys, can you hear me? Yes, loud and clear. >> Okay, awesome.

Well, I tried to describe my situation, so um I got out of college in 2021 and just

got married and I had my associate's,

went to work for the past 2 years and

I'm currently making $20 an hour.

It comes out to about like 37 grand a

year after taxes and everything.

We had a we have one a 1-year-old daughter and we didn't really have any debt, but then my wife's car broke down and we decided to buy her a car last year.

cash value.

Um and [clears throat] then that car broke down and our warranty covered us to get a brand new engine on it.

So, we have that and then I decided to start a business last July and I'm generating through that business after after like in in profit, I'm bringing in about half of my income

um from that I make at my day job. Now, we did have about 8 grand in debt because

of that, starting a whole business and everything and then we just used our taxes to pay that back like substantially. So, now we

only have about 2 grand in debt. Total?

>> Um Yeah, well well, besides the car. The car is like we still have like $20,000 in the car. So, um And is your you have the only um income in the family right now? Yes, I my wife is a stay-at-home mom and the final thing was I was planning on going back to college this fall.

And I I get financial aid, so it'll probably be just as much as I'm making in my day job. But the only thing is we just got news and we're expecting twins.

Whoa.

Yeah. >> Congratulations.

Thank you. Wow. So, A lot going on here.

Yeah, this is the thing. We live in a small studio in the back house of her

mother's house.

So, it's already me, her, and our

1-year-old daughter. Now, we're expecting twins, and previously we were

pre-qualified to get a house. We actually live in Bakersfield. We were pre-qualified to get a house for about 150,000.

But, now you know, we with the car, we we don't even know if we don't even know what we're going to do. Do you have any money in savings?

We have We have nothing. We just started budgeting. I just started getting plugged in with the the Ramsey show about 2 weeks ago, 3 weeks ago.

Well, there there's an order for you to become a homeowner, and it's when you're debt-free with a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses, and you have a solid down payment. But, until then, I'm not going to get pre-qualified. >> rent right now, Timothy, or are you No, her her family's Yeah, her Yeah, she We're living there for free, so. >> Okay. Yeah. The The big question is, can you afford to continue living in California off a $40,000 salary?

Well, um I mean, I'm not sure. Um Like I said, I live in Bakersfield, so I mean, it's a little bit lower living expenses in LA. Um >> But, what would it cost you to go rent somewhere that could fit your family right now with the twins? Well, a small small would be like 800 800

bucks a month. And then, a little bit bigger would be somewhere along to 1,300 bucks a month.

This business you started, so you're you made 14,000 last year because you they made half of what you make normally.

Yes. So, well, actually I just started last July. So, now I'm averaging about four 400 bucks in sales a week, and take

home is 300 bucks a week.

Okay. >> After Yeah, after input and all that stuff. Okay. It's about 15 grand in take home from this business.

Yeah. >> see it scaling? Do you see it Yeah, it's growing substantially. It's It's scaling really fast.

I mean, and So, the reality, Timothy, I think is you're going to have two jobs. You're going to have this job that you're that you're growing, which is awesome, and hopefully it just skyrockets. I mean, that that would be the hope. And your day job, and you you're going to be working both of those, I think, for for a period of time until the car is paid off, and this $2,000 loan, until you guys get a good emergency fund.

Well, no, you know what? There's twins in the picture, so we're we're pausing everything. So, honestly, I would just stockpile cash at this point until the babies are here. Um and it's probably a high Is a twins high risk?

I mean, like they're you know >> Can be. So, I just I would be >> can be. Yeah, so all that to say, I would just be saving a crap ton. And once >> just be putting so much away.

Honestly, I mean, like that's that's going to be your best bet right now. And then, once the twins are here and everyone's good, then I would look at paying off this $2,000 business loan, paying off the car.

Yeah.

What's the car worth?

Well, see, it was $20,000 cash value,

right? Well, the engine the engine busted, and they put a brand new right off the right off the assembly line, a revised version of the the engine. And it was about $17,000 engine. But, I went to I went to see if we can Yeah, but I went to go see the if I I mean, I did an online like little quote, and it only came out to like 10 grand or something.

So, I don't know if I did it wrong, or maybe I should we should actually go into a dealer but to see what the price should be.

But, I mean, I mean, after all that, I just I just we My wife and I were willing to do what it takes to sell the car, but we're like Is it a Is it quality reliable car for the family, and it fits all the kids?

Yeah, it's it's a nice car. It's a Jeep Grand Cherokee um EcoDiesel, and it's it's it's a really nice car, so. >> Okay. Well, for now, I would work to just pay that off, and the debt snowball.

Once the twins are here, get the emergency fund in place, then you can think about going back to school, and making sure you can cash flow that. But, I don't think now is the time. >> No. No. Do you think that if I were able to grow the business large cuz because it's I grow sell and deliver microgreens. So, I'm only spending about about

12 hours a week doing You're saying if I did this full-time, it could replace my income? Yes. Yes.

>> Right now with your situation, it feels risky. If you can get the boat close to the dock later on, and you're like, "Oh my goodness, I could totally see how if I did this full-time, I could make more than I'm making in my cuz right now you're making your full-time salary plus the side money. If you jump to the side stuff, you're just going to replace your original income.

Yeah, yeah. That's true. >> better off right now financially with your situation, and I would work to go rent a place. Really, your goal is, can I make 6,200 bucks take home to afford the $1,300 a month in rent? And I would make the jump to go rent at that place.

Okay. Hope that helps, Timothy.

You got a the road ahead of you, man.

The twins alone, on top of the 1-year-old, it's about to be a party.

>> Yeah. >> So, wishing you guys the best in that.

Also, what a what a sweet blessing.

That's exciting. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. I'm George Kamel, joined by Rachel Cruze this hour. Thank you to all of the folks in the booth keeping the show going this hour. And you, America, we'll be back before you know it.

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## 52. Face Debt Head-On Before It Destroys Your Family | Best-Of for March 28, 2025


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today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel joined by my co-host Rachel Cruz. She's also the co-host of another show we do together called Smart Money Happy Hour.

The number to call is8825-55225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life, your money. We'll help you take the right next step. And we'll try to make it entertaining, too, cuz you know, life's too short. Yeah. Yeah.

And money's fun. All this is fun. We can enjoy this. The world is heavy. And we're out here just making light of it all and showing you some a path forward, some hope. So Jeremy's going to kick us off across the border in Ottawa, Canada.

What's going on, Jeremy?

Oh, just trying to keep one foot in front of the other. How about yourself?

That's right, my friend. How can we help?

Well, uh hopefully with uh some answers to some money problems, but uh in a in a

nutshell, I uh uprooted my family and

and moved. Ended up taking about a 65% pay

cut. And uh now everything's just starting to pile up and pile up. And I I

want to know if it makes me a a deadbeat father if I uh if I move back to my old job where I'm making north of 150k

versus south of 50k just to keep all the all the bills paid and food in the fridge. What was the reason for you to uproot them and take this pay cut? It was clearly a big enough reason that you guys decided to do this.

Uh just to keep the family together, be a little bit closer to my partner's family. They're they're super close.

But uh Okay. And now you're realizing we can't sustain this financially with our lifestyle, our bills, and our much lower income. This is stressful for us even though we're closer to family.

Exactly. Is are you in a when you moved

away, how far away are you from where you guys moved? Because when you say to go back to my job, does that mean move again to go back to the old job or you could do something different with where you guys live now?

Uh, it's 3,000 miles and I was told if

uh if I go back, I'm going back by myself. Whoa. Like an ultimatum?

Yeah.

Um, does she understand what's going on

financially at all? How how is she feeling? Is she stressed about it?

Uh she knows that it's not well, but I'm

she's kind of blind to it and she uh she

just took a different job to work less hours, too. How? Which isn't helping anything. Okay. When you say she's blind to it, does that mean that she doesn't have all the information or she has all the information, but the way she's processing it is not correct in reality?

Uh I think she's just ignoring the the

issue.

Okay. How much are you guys in the whole a month financially with after everything's paid? How much how much more do you need?

Uh I don't know. She doesn't tell me what uh what her expenses are. Okay. So

you guys don't have any finances combined?

No. Are you are you legally married or

just cohabitating? Uh just we're uh we're common law and we got two two little ones. Okay. And bank accounts are separate. Do you guys Venmo each other for the mortgage? How does this work?

Uh, I take care of the mortgage in in one vehicle and she does the rest. Okay.

And she's not feeling the stress of this financially. Just you?

Uh, no. She uh she is too because

apparently she hasn't been able to uh to make her minimums either. Okay. So, it's sounding more like a relationship issue.

Jeremy, it sounds like you guys just aren't doing well as a couple in general. I don't know if money is the main issue. I think it's become a symptom of it. But you guys, it doesn't sound like you guys communicate well or or have the same goals or or um do this

life together very well. It seems very separate even from an emotional standpoint. Is that right?

It's it's getting there, that's for sure. Well, it sounds like you went along with this to appease her, to be closer to family, knowing full well you guys were going to be in the hole financially. And I don't know if you didn't make that clear or if she just was blind to it as you said and just going I don't care. We're making this move. We'll figure it out. Pretty much.

Well, there I don't know who your God is, but you need to come to Jesus conversation where you go, listen, you're clearly not doing well financially. I'm not doing well financially. This family's not doing well financially. And life is too short to live with this kind of stress.

So, if we're going to stay here, we have to make it work. And here's what that's going to take. And that's when we lay out the finances together. get on a budget together and figure out what the hole is and how we're getting out of it.

And that might mean you need to find a higher paying job. She needs to work more hours. We need to combine bank accounts.

Okay. And if if that doesn't work, like

should I jump back out to uh to my old

jobs just so that I know that my kids are fed? I mean, that's the noble thing to do. I don't think it helps your marriage at all or with this common law situation you have going on. So, you're going to grow further apart um while keeping the kids fed. And so, I'd rather keep the kids fed though where you guys are to be able to work on the relationship and get a higher paying job where you are or can you sell the car and make other sacrifices to cover your four walls for now?

Uh the car is upside down by about 15.

Do you know what she makes at all?

Uh, she's supposed to make 85 a year, but she has a habit of not going to uh

to work. Wouldn't you get fired if I don't show up to work enough? Dave says, "All right, we're going to find someone else who can actually do this job."

Well, uh, she, uh, works in healthcare, so they're they're begging for people to to work there. And what do you do?

Uh, I'm in the construction.

Okay. You What were you doing before when you were making six figures?

Uh, I was uh I was working in a in a mining industry and that industry obviously doesn't exist where you're at.

No. Is there an equivalent or is there a better construction job up the ladder that you can aim toward?

I've I've progressed up the uh up the ladder in my company a little bit already. And the uh the next step would

be to uh become a supervisor, but that's

at least a year and a half out cuz I've I've asked my boss for more hours and if he would be able to give me give me a wage increase and I he just said that I'm I'm not there yet. Okay. So, Jeremy, I think what it comes down to is you guys aren't paying your bills. I mean, what what's happening financially?

There's an issue. So the adult thing is

that you both sit down together and say here's what it takes to run our household and we have to make x amount every month for this to happen. And we don't get to decide that we don't feel like doing that. That has to happen. So either we're cutting our freaking lifestyle and taking everything off the table and doing nothing in order to feed the kids or we're going to have to

decide different jobs. We're going to have to choose to move back. like we don't get to just sit and not make money and not pay our bills like that. Like we can't do that. So that's not an option.

We're adults and this is part of life.

And so that's one thing. But the other thing I'm very concerned about, Jeremy, is the relationship. I mean I mean I it just it sounds bizarre to me that she's so in the clouds um that she wants nothing to do with you financially and she's made that very clear. My question is why?

Because longterm this is not a sustained relationship. You cannot live your life on two separate pages financially because what that is, it's an indicator of how your relationship is in general and you guys are going to just keep moving further and further apart and you guys have two kids together. So, it's worth the fight. But you first from a tactical standpoint have to get enough money in to pay the bills and you both have to come to that understanding and if she is so in the clouds in that then she may not be a great partner long term because she's probably in the clouds on everything else.

So um so there has to be some big decisions that are going to be really difficult but you both have to step up as adults and decide to face it together.

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800356-4282. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Rachel Cruz. If you want to check out some other shows that we produce, you can check out the George Camel YouTube channel and of course the Rachel Cruz Show on YouTube and podcast and it's all on the Ramsey Network app if you want to check that out as well. All right, let's

go to null in El Paso, Texas. Null, did

I get that right? Me, you did. Okay, wonderful. How are you doing? Um, doing

all right. Taking it one day at a time as best as I can. How can we help today?

What's going on? So, essentially,

uh, my question is, um, you know, I've

been listening to your show, uh, for a few days. I've been binging on it quite a bit now. um couple your other podcasts and and uh you know I've been contemplating bankruptcy. Uh it's it's

been something that's in my mind over the course of the last couple months. Um and I'm just trying to see if it's a better option to throw in the towel and do that or to continue attacking my debt

aggressively um based on what I've learned so far on the show.

Sorry to hear that. Well, lay this out for us. How much do you make and how much debt do you have? Okay, so um I

make approximately I got two sources of income. Uh one is my job which gives me roughly about 81,000 a year and then the other one's disability compensation which is about 56,000. So rough about 122,000 130,000 a year. Okay. And then

as far as debt is concerned, uh I have about 80,000 in debt. Three of them are

personal loans. Well, two of them are personal loans, one's my vehicle, and then the rest is on credit card debt.

Okay. What are the amounts for all those? So, the the most expensive one is

$38,000. Um, that one has about a $616

payment per month. Um, and it's stretched out over 16 uh 15 years. What which which debt is that? That one was a

home improvement loan that I took out um

back in 2022. I was in the middle of a remodel. Okay. of my house. All right.

And so I I took that money for a remodel. Okay.

And the second personal loan, the second personal loan was a debt consolidation loan. It's roughly about $29,000. And then the third one is the vehicle. The uh my truck, which is about $26,000. And then the credit card debt is roughly about another 10 or 13,000.

Okay. How much is the car worth? The truck.

The truck is worth about 57K.

It's worth $57,000.

Yes. Good. And you owe 26. Correct. I

like where this is going. Do you see where this is going?

I do see where your recommendation is going to be. Explain to me why you need this truck when you're on the verge of bankruptcy.

Because I'm in construction uh and I I I

need the truck to be able to get through the construction. I just checked Google.

They make $20,000 trucks.

They do. Um, but I work in heavy civil

civil engineering construction, so I need something that can tow the amount of weight that I need to be able to tow.

And you're telling me there's no $25,000 truck that can tow that amount probably.

So, it's probably going to be about 15 years old. I'm okay with that. You're on the verge of bankruptcy. You just told

us you got here because you were unwilling to have delayed gratification.

Sacrifices weren't made and you made

some poor financial decisions. And this is the one on the list that you can undo if you're willing to drive a 15-y old truck for a season so that you can avoid bankruptcy.

Okay. What's the truck payment?

It's uh 583 a month. So, you would have

an extra 600 bucks a month to go toward your debt, correct? Yes. I mean, do realize that if if you're going to file bankruptcy, they're going to liquidate and get as much as, you know, Yeah. possible anyway. So, I mean, this this this could all be on your terms and it's going to be uncomfortable and it's not going to

look the way that you've been handling your money, but something has to change.

So, of course, your life is going to look different if you start making different decisions with money. And and it's not going to be easy. Um because I mean a little bit of the easy route is is the debt route. You kind of can get what you want when you want it. And you know that's how majority of people live.

But you're finding that it's causing stress. You're calling us for a reason

because you're not happy with where you are financially. So something does have to change. So your mindset around money regardless of work and construction and

weight. I mean all of that like if you're in this desperation part you know if you get to this place in your life you're willing to do anything like anything and I don't I don't know if you

feel that or want to experience that.

I just been through a lot of suffering over the last year.

Um and it's not necessarily the whole truck thing. It's just yeah what's what's been going on

the what what caused me to call to make all these poor financial decisions I suffered a traumatic event back in November 2022 where my son passed away um sorry and so that caused me to sell my house uh and when I sold my house it was in the middle of a remodel um and I

ended up being upside down about $18,000 so I had to pay $18,000 to sell a house

um and then I moved my daughter and I across Ross the country to bring my my son to his his birthplace to bury him.

Um and I had to start all over again. So

that's what caused me to take out, you know, the that consolidation loan for 27 or $29,000. Um and I I had a paid off truck. My truck was paid off. I had a 2500 Ram that was paid off and I traded that in to get this vehicle because it was a 4x4 and it had more pooling power.

Um I hear you. Then I ended up buying a I had to buy another house. Uh but it wasn't a house. I bought a mobile home.

That was another $121,000 uh there. So, you know, I I I spent a

couple hours on on the budget app yesterday that the every dollar uh spent app. And for some reason, it's telling me that I have $2,600 worth of margin every month left over. Um that's with

your minimum debt payments, all of your expenses. That's what it should be.

That's Yeah. I mean, I put everything in there. all the payments that I'm making and still says I got $2,600. And don't get me wrong, I I've paid off close to about $3, $3,500 worth of credit cards, full credit cards in the last 30 days, and you know, just just trying to to do what the Ramsey method is telling me to do.

Um, you know, and I'm putting $40 away every every week in savings to try to get to that $1,000 savings to, you know, in my underwear drawer to to keep it there for a rainy day.

outside of the truck, I added it up. I mean, if you sell the truck, you'll have $80,000 in consumer debt based on what you told us. Yes. And so, you had said

80 at the top, but you got 80 plus the $26,000 truck loan. That puts you at six figures in debt. And I'm trying to help.

What's that? That's including That's including it. The 26,000. What was the first loan you said? The home improvement loan. 38,000. Yeah. 38,000.

29,000. 29 plus 10 29,000 plus 13 in

credit cards plus 26.

Yeah. And then according to credit karma is telling me I got 13 uh in credit cards. But and I'm telling you with a

calculator it's coming up at 80 and that's without your car loan. So I just want you to have a real

picture of what your finances are at.

And that's why I'm so desperate to get you to get rid of this truck and downgrade to number one free you of $26,000 today before your truck goes underwater. Almost every call people are underwater on their truck. So when you said this truck is worth 57 and you owe 26, I was doing back flips because it gave me some hope that you can get out of this faster than you think.

And if you do that and then do the debt snowball, every extra dollar outside of food, utilities, uh, shelter, transportation, insurance goes toward that 80,000 you have remaining, smallest to largest balance. I think you can get out of this. You make great money. You're a smart guy who works hard and and and know that I mean, from that information that you just gave us about this last year, which is just the most horrific thing that I could ever imagine is is losing a child.

So, I can't even I can't even imagine what that grief does, there's a there a fog that is there. And when you make financial decisions, usually in that time soon after something like that happens, they're always they're sometimes not the best.

That's to kind of free you to say, hey, yes, you as you look back like, wow, those may not have been the best decisions. I don't blame you for that because of what you walked through, but I do want to make sure that there's a level of healing that you're getting from this um and that the money is that secondary piece. But I do um I pray that for you, Noel. I'm so sorry.

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions possibly. Yeah, I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. Well, credit unions for one thing are uh nonprofit, which means

that the members, the customers own the

credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing.

And and but that's what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really really good job with customer service and um the deals that they're offering. The Ramsay tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach they so line up with.

And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. Yeah. And I'm not kidding.

It took less than 5 minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone.

So, I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, "Yeah, they give calls to every new customer." And so, again, they just really care about your experience. And I I so so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

how much I hate banks in general. And so, for me to do this is a big deal.

talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsay tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds, no matter where you live. So, go to fair

winds.org/ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with bestselling author George Camel. We're taking your calls. Up next, we have Shondaanda in Cleveland. Hey, Shondaa. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Hi guys. Hello. Hello. I have Hi.

Can you hear me? Yes, we can. We can.

Oh, okay. Thanks for calling. Yeah. How can we help?

Yes. I have money stress. I have um I'm

I have an income of like 22

$24,000. But I have two collection agencies. Um one is 5,000 which could

pay um I only have 2,000 more to pay for

that one collection agency. and the other one is 8,000. And I don't know what to do or begin to pay that

um that debt. I don't even know where to begin. I haven't talked to that um collection agency at all cuz I don't know what to do cuz I I don't have no money to pay them. And uh a driveway that needs to be fixed, that's like 20,000 they say. So that's an upcoming

expense. That's not debt, right?

Yeah, that's what I've come in. Okay.

What other debt do you have?

Um, I have student loans that's uh

50,000, a car loan that's

11,000. A home loan that's

75,000 and I was like um one month

behind. I think I just caught up. And

um let's see. um credit card. That's

$200 $200 dollars minimum payment or

that's the total? Yeah. No, that's the total. So, I was going to pay them off when I next time I get paid. Okay. How

old are you?

I'm 53. Okay.

What are you doing for work right now?

That's insistent, but I feel like I I'm overwhelmed. I don't know what to do.

And I know y'all say don't play the lottery, but that's I've been trying to do that. Oh no, don't step. I don't know what else to do. Convenience store, a gas station. Stay far away. How many hours a week are you working? That's right.

Um like 40 hours. And then sometimes I

pick up on my off days. Okay. So I'm working. I'm working. And you're doing what again? I'm sorry. Say it one more time. Nursing assistant. Nursing assistant. But you're only making $24,000 working as a nursing assistant.

and working 40 hours a week.

Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Um Yeah. I mean, I think the the

first thing to be looking at because what's your degree in because you have some student loans.

Yeah. Um well, I went to school for different Well, I really went to school

and didn't really get much of a degree.

I got Okay. one degree. And how long you been paying on these student loans?

for years and haven't made a dent. And I mean, you

know, during co they didn't they wasn't taking any payments during CO. They were sending your money right back. Are you single?

Yes. Okay. Well, there's some simple steps you can take that are tactical to help you, but it's going to take sacrifice.

It's going to take making more, spending less, all of that. Um, so here's the thing with the collections. You've got to talk to these people. We can't bury our head in the sand. And even if you call them and say, "Listen, I can't pay you. I make $10 an hour and I got a lot

of bills and a lot of people who want to get paid and so I need to keep the lights on." So your one priority is food, utilities, shelter, transportation. We call that the four walls.

Nothing else gets paid before those get paid. I don't care who the debt is to, what the collectors are saying. You got to keep the lights on, keep the mortgage paid so that you don't get foreclosed on

and eat something too. And so beyond that, you got to make your insurance payments. We need to keep all of that to protect us and then we can start tackling the debt. But clearly there's not much to tackle it with because you have no money left after making minimum payments, right? That's right. So I mean, so what do I tell them or what do I do? Do I write a letter? Do I call

them? I'd call everyone you owe debt to and say, "Listen, I want to pay you, but I don't have any money. I make $10 an hour. I'm six figures in debt. I'll pay you when I can and what I can, but right now I'm flat broke." Okay. Yeah. And then on the income sign, Shondaanda, I mean, I honestly I mean, I was, you know, Walmart, Target, like these places are paying up to 20 an hour. Like, you could double your hourly

rate by working somewhere else. I think you're going to need a different job. I just don't this job is not going to be able to sustain you and you're working 40 hours. So I'm like you're you have a you know a great work ethic but that energy is going to something that's not giving you your rate of return of what you need right now.

And so and places like Walmart, Target, some other places, I mean they have great benefits like they really do a great job in helping their employees. So I honestly would be switching jobs. You have to make more. You can't be living on this.

Is there a path for you to make more in the nursing assistant world?

Well, I don't know of um like the hospitals or something like that. I don't know how much they I would do some homework and research and talk to people who are in these fields in these positions and ask them the path and what it's going to cost and what it's going to take and how long.

Yeah. Because longterm you need a solution. Yeah. agency pays I mean some I mean I guess the agency but beyond the agency you know as a as a certified nursing assistant you should be able to make 30 to 40 versus

22 and with your experience I'd imagine this wouldn't be a huge leap and so I would just at least start to do some homework I know life has got you down but this is the time the next 10 years we need to be really getting focused get the income up get rid of this debt and have no mortgage payment and Sean to start binge watching some of our debtree screams um here on the YouTube channel or even podcast, but go through and and

watch some of these stories because I know it feels like you're in such a hopeless situation. Uh and numbers wise, it does feel hopeless, right? And and so we want that some of that to change with your income and starting to get a grapple on this debt. Um but just know that there is an there is a way out.

It's just going to it's going to look different than probably what you've done in the past and that's okay. But there's people that do it every day. So continue to to feed your mind with this stuff. If you hold on the line, Shondaanda, Austin's going to pick up and I want to give you Financial Peace University.

It's our nine lesson course on money just to get you the basics. We'll throw in every dollar premium as well, which is our our budgeting app. Uh and they have a great tutorial there when you sign up there to really walk through and teach you there.

do a budget. Uh and also go ahead and throw in Total Money Makeover, too. And that's that's Dave Ramsey's bestselling book and it's the seven baby steps. Um I just want to get some some knowledge um of this plan in you Shondaanda and I want you to just like soak all this up because it's going to kind of be a different world that you'll be navigating with money.

It's going to look different but I want you to have motivation and people behind you cheering you on. And even if it's us on YouTube cheering you on and and giving you some encouragement through other callers or watching their stories, I want that for you because I want you to know that that this can change. It's going to be different. It's Yeah, it's going to be different from what you've done.

And it's going to be hard. None of this is easy. None of this is easy, but it is possible. I'm going to throw even one more thing just because I feel for Shondaanda.

I'm gonna gift you a free coaching session with a trained Ramsey financial coach who can walk through all of this with you, help you with the collection side, navigate this wild journey, help you make a plan with the debt snowball. Um, just cuz we can't do that in a radio call. And I really want Shondaanda to have hope cuz I know a lot of older caller, there's older people out there listening who are in their 50s, Rachel, and they're going, "Well, I'm in her shoes. There's no hope for me." And it takes it's harder to do as you get older.

It's just hard. Deeper habits that are you have to break. The mistakes have been compounding for years. The debt's been sitting around for years is in collections.

So, hang on the line.

So, that's that's a big part of the problem is Yes. And it feeling hope and getting a game plan. That's right. And you know, we talked to to people Yeah.

in their 50s, 60s, sometimes in their 70s, right? And they're they don't have anything for retirement. and they're trying to figure this out. And and even though it's a hard hill to climb to say, "Okay, I'm going to buckle down.

I'm going to I'm going to learn something new, change what I've been doing, sacrifice, take on that extra job." Like all of that is hard, but it's also hard to go into retirement with nothing if you continued down that path. Right. So, it's one of those things like you choose your hard. Yeah.

And one heart's actually going to be able to give you money when you start working a plan and get out of debt and be able to have some level of control over your life versus not at all. Right? So don't give up, Shondaanda. You got this, Shondaanda.

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netswuite.com/ramsey. I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruz. This is the Ramsey Show. And if you enjoy this show, you should check out Smart Money Happy Hour co-hosted by myself and Rachel Cruz.

We have a blast. And if you need to like send someone the show that's not too heavy, too intense, Smart Money Happy Hour is it's a breath of fresh air. There's lots of laughs and you kind of we sneakily teach you money things while you don't even know it. You don't even know.

It's like a what? Our writer Savannah said she was at the nail salon and some Gen Z girls were like, "Hey, you know that Dave guy?" She's like, "Yeah." She's like, "Well, his daughter has a really cool podcast.

You're talking about Smart Money Happy Hour at the nail salon. Current events, pop culture, and money. Rachel's like the cool sister. It's the best. And I'm the cool uncle, I guess. Uncle George.

That's right. All right. Gabriella is up next in Macallen, Texas. Gabriella, what's going on? Hi, guys. Thank you for taking my call. So, my question is, "My

exboyfriend left me with an RV payment and I do not want to pay it." Oh my

gosh. So, what happened you guys? So, he

took it to go work and could no longer afford the payment on it and left it to me last weekend and was like, "Here you go. Here's the RV with the payment." What do you mean left it to you? Whose name is on the loan? It is under my

name. We were together for 10 years. Um,

I got it for for him to he had to go

work in the oil field and um he we split

up about a year ago and he he can't afford it anymore. He so he brought it back to me and I'm left with it. Oh no.

Shoot. Mhm. Well, Gabriella, you'll

never do that again, will you? I've learned my lesson. Oh no. You know, we talked to somebody earlier in the hour and her and her boyfriend, well, fiance, they don't really have a date.

I don't think a wedding date we asked. But yeah, both their houses, their names are on the deed of the house. And I just thought, "Oh, no, no, no, no." So, you're a great uh I guess poster child of what can happen when you sign on to debt and buy things with people you're not married to. And I'm so sorry.

I mean, on top of the hurt from this long-term relationship over and it was a year ago, though. So now you're like, "Well, crap.

48,000 and looking it up, it's worth

around $30,000.

So you're $18,000 underwater

basically. For some reason, they took a like the prices in RVs were just expensive when I bought it and have dropped. Well, that's been the theme on

the show for the last week or month is everyone is underwater on vehicles and things with wheels because it was really expensive and they had good intentions and then the market turned and now everyone's underwater. So, there's only two ways to go about this. Number one is you need to come up with the $18,000 in cash in order to sell it and pay off the loan. Or number two, you go get a personal loan for the difference of that $18,000 to get out from under this. Do you have any money?

Uh yeah, I have around 10,000 in savings. Good. And any other debt?

Yeah. Well, yes, I have a mortgage. Um I pay my vehicle, but my vehicle is actually a lease. And um I hadn't

learned my lesson at the time, but I have a bedroom set under under my name that somebody else owes about $3,000 of

that. Really no credit card debt. Um somebody else owes

Yes, it's under my name, so technically I owe it, but And are they paying are they paying on it or you're Yes and no.

Okay. Oh gosh. Is this Is this family?

Is it a friend that you like said, "Hey, I'll It's family. It's a family member." Oh gosh. I think you need to stop being generous with money you don't have, Gabriella. That's what's been happening.

It's a theme in your life. You sound like such a sweet, wonderful person. And now, how much do you make a year? Uh so this year I made so I'm actually a nurse and with co um I made really good money

uh 2022 kind of gone down some. So this

year I made 133 but it will probably

drop again this year because uh there's no more COVID crisis. So that's just how it works. Not if I can help it. You're going to be out there busting your tail over time doing Uber Eats and Door Dash

and Instacart, whatever it takes.

You're climbing out of this thing. And uh I think you're you're not scared of work, which is great. And uh we got to start with the smallest debt here, which it sounds like is this bedroom set.

Yeah. I think you just pay it off. And if they ever pay you any more for it, great. You can apply that. Don't expect it. Just don't wait with it. Yeah. Be be done with it. Okay. Even if it's um zero interest, I should pay that one off. Especially if it's zero interest. All of it. Okay. We're done with payments.

We're done with debt. You make too much. You're too successful and you're too smart to ever do this stuff again regardless of the interest rate.

Does that track Gabriella? Are you with us on this? Yes. We we are team Gabriella. And so we want you to win and

that's going to mean you have, you know, if you count up all your debt and if you want to get out of the lease, you can look at the early buyout amount and uh see if that's going to be worth it for you to do now. Uh otherwise, you turn the car in and then you need to go get another car. But don't just get another lease.

Okay? It's the most expensive way to get a vehicle and dealerships love it because they make the most money off of these leases. Okay. So, no more leasing.

No more leasing. Buy your next car with cash, which is going to be When is the lease up? Um, in about two more years.

Okay. Yeah. I would look at the early buyout. I would just kind of do some research in that. But then in the meantime, between now and two years, be saving some cash. Um, knowing that you're gonna have to replace this car.

But I would take, yeah, this 10 grand, Gabriella, I would pay off the um, Yep.

the bedroom set. Uh, and then the You're

looking at the 18 that you'll probably have to take a loan out for uh, for the remainder of that RV after you sell it.

Okay. So, I shouldn't give it back to the bank and then let them sell it and then me pay the difference.

You're saying to have the RV repossessed?

Yes. I wouldn't do that. No, I wouldn't do that because that would go on your credit. I would Yeah, I would I would just find the private sale. Um Okay.

List it, sell it yourself, get as much as you can for it, obviously, and then Yeah, you'll have to have have a loan for the difference, and then you'll be working your way out of that.

Oh, okay. Yeah. I wish we had better news. The good news is you make great money. You make six figures. We've seen bigger, scarier numbers than this. Yeah.

But it's the hurt and shame and guilt and baggage and oh my gosh, I'm so stupid. You got to just pick yourself up and go, listen, that doesn't define me.

I'm going to make different decisions. Gabriella, is it just you? Are you single kids? Yes, it it's just me and my

two girls. Okay. So, you do have two girls. Okay. How old are they? I have a

nineyear-old and a three-year-old. Okay.

So sweet. That's so great. Okay, so what you're probably going to be doing, I mean, where you can work extra and even if it's, you know, at night online or something like if there's like something that you can do to find that extra money. But with this 133, I mean, I would act like I would I would tighten everything up and I mean, give yourself

a goal to say I'm going to act like I make 70,000 a year or whatever it is.

and then find that difference to to have an end point to say, "Okay, I could be completely debtree, be done with all of this and start fresh, not owing anyone

anything and and start this whole process." I'm like that that you could do this in in 18 months, Gabriella. I mean, if you really focused and did this, um the car lease, you know, kind of hangs in the balance of what you decide there, but being able to have no payments and this income going to you and your girls and you guys keeping all of it, that's the goal we want for you.

Have you been through Financial Peace University?

No. Okay. So, if you hold on the line, Skylar is going to pick up and we're going to gift that to you as as well as Every Dollar Premium, which is our budgeting app. And so, what I want you to do, Gabrielle, is wa is watch these lessons, even binge them.

Uh there's going to be seven lessons. And I want you to go through and and watch all of this and really get a game plan to say, "Okay, here is how I take control of my money." And what that's going to teach you is everything from budgeting to getting out of debt to saving up for an emergency fund uh to investing to your kids college. I mean, it kind of runs the gamut of everything and it's all packaged in there. And so to be able to walk through that and apply this stuff, Gabrielle, because what you've already witnessed and experienced is that money, it's personal finance, it's 80% behavior.

You're going to watch these videos and be like, I knew that. I knew I shouldn't probably co-signed some furniture for a family member. I know that I probably Okay, now okay, you know, you're going to get all that, but actually changing the behavior and doing it is going to be the key to you winning. And I believe in you. I know you can do this, Gabriella.

We're we're cheering you on. So, hold on the line. Skyler will pick up. That's the theme of this hour. Don't spend money you don't have, especially with people you're not married to. That puts this hour of the Ramsay Show in the books. My thanks to my co-host Rachel Cruz, all the folks in the booth, and you, America. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back before you know

[Music]

it. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by best-selling author Rachel Cruz. This is your show, America. Give us a call

at88255225. you jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money and we'll try to help you take the right next step when it comes to your biggest life's decisions and maybe smallest. You know, it can be a first world problem. We're down to chat about that, too. We're here for everything. No problem, too small.

Kenneth kicks us off in Houston, Texas.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show, Kenneth.

Hello. Hey, how you doing? Um, I'm doing

fine for now. What's going on?

Um, so I'm current currently in a

situation where I'm living in my car. I

started in November um because I racked

up about $14,000 in credit cards. Oh

man. And I have 16 on my car as well. So

16 16,000.

Yes. On my car. Okay. Where were you living before this?

Um, I was actually living in an apartment with my cousin and her boyfriend, but they decided to get their own place, so I ended up in a car.

And right now, you can't afford rent because of the debt.

Yes. Um, it's taking about half of my paycheck every two weeks and my car

payment is $3.46. So, I'm left with about $200. So, I am I started this uh debt

snowball and I managed to pay off one credit card, but it's uh it's still not

enough. Not not enough. It sounds like we need to get your income up. Are you working full-time right now? Yes. Yes, I

am. Um I actually uh I'm I submitted

applications to places. Um, I still

haven't have uh like I haven't heard back yet. So, what are you doing right now for work? Um, I'm a sterilization

tech. Um, I clean dental instruments.

Okay. What do you make doing that? Um, I

make 18 an hour. Um, on my W2, it said I

made 32,000 this year. Okay. And you're

working 40 hours a week.

Um, it's between that. Uh, we work half days on Fridays, sometimes full days.

So, between 36 and 40. Can you work extra if you chose to?

Yes, I'm currently looking. Okay. I would see if you can work overtime with your sterilization job. On top of that, getting another job on the side. Um, I mean, $18 an hour is not nothing. And so, it feels like it's not just a car loan. What's your minimum payment on the credit cards?

Um, altogether, um, it is over 500, 529.

I have a spread between seven.

And you have uh do you have any friends or family that you could have to help support you? Go live with some friends for now. Crash on a couch, anything like that?

Friends? Uh no. Uh family I do they have

offered, but um uh the environment for me around them

is I I do not enjoy. So, I rather stay

in a car instead of having my emotional

well-being. Are you safe living in this car? Where are you actually staying?

Um, so I stay around around near my job.

Um, so far nothing has happened. Um, I I

believe I don't know how many months, like four months now. Are you able to

shower and how how are you doing all of that? Um, so I actually have a gym membership.

Um, so showering, um, doing whatever I

need to do, I can handle that at the gym. Okay. Um, Kenneth, how much is your car worth?

Um, it's I checked on Kelly Blue Book.

It's at 12,000 the last time I checked.

Okay. Worth 12,000. Okay. You owe 16 some change. Yes. Yes. And um no money

saved.

No. No. And the because my biggest

concern right now, Kevin, for you Yeah.

is what kind of George was hinting at, but it is your living situation. I mean, one of these, you know, four walls is what we say, food, shelter, utilities, transportation. Like these are things that um are necessities. Those are

needs, and you're lacking obviously one of those. So, the family situation,

um, would it be could like is there a

way to at least have a roof over your head and give yourself a time frame and

say within 90 days, I'm going to be out

of here and looking for my own place, but just for the, you know, just the the the bare necessity of, you know, having having a home, that's what I I just worry for you when it comes to that is just having a place to stay.

Well, the place um at my family's place,

I would have to uh pay rent, which is not much, but it would I wouldn't have any left to put towards my credit cards.

So, right now, if you're working 40 hours a week at 18 an hour, it's about 2,900 bucks a month before taxes. So, how much is getting taken out of these paychecks?

Are you actually looking at the paychecks and seeing where it's going?

No. Um I know that about 180 is being

taken out for insurance, but taxes wise

um I have not checked. Okay. I would go look at that. Make sure you're not taking out too much in taxes. Uh make sure that you're not putting any money away into investments. Right now, every dollar you can get out of those paychecks needs to go to covering your four walls like Rachel mentioned. Yeah.

Because besides the you have the car payment, the credit cards, but you should have around $2,000 left cuz you

got about 900 in payments.

Uh that's what it's looking like. I get

each paycheck. Uh it depends. Um I get

about the minimum at least 1,60 each

month. I mean each every two weeks.

Okay. So the first thousand covers your debt payments. Where's the other thousand going?

I have no idea.

Okay. So, I think that's that's going to be a that's a key piece to this, Kenneth, because $1,000 I'm like that's a significant amount, right? So, I would want you um to be tracking and knowing

like this is exactly where every single dollar is going, right? And even just going back to the basic of a budget. Um, and we can, if you hold on in the line, we'll give you every dollar premium. Um,

to be able to figure out so specifically

where that is because I don't want you Yeah. I don't want you behind on payments.

In a perfect world, I want you to be able to to have enough money to pay rent somewhere. Um, and you need to be working every weekend. I was going to say weekends and even nights, Kenneth, it's going to be exhausting, but you're I mean, you're you're going to have to dig yourself out of this hole. And one of the I mean, the two ways to do that is income and expenses, right?

Those are the two parts of the equation. So, upping the income, lowering the expenses, uh, is going to is going to help you gain some traction.

Uh, no. It's it's too much for me right

now. Um, like auto insurance. I can Yeah, for the minimum for me is 400. So,

why is that? I can You have a bad driving record?

No, my driving record's good. Um, it's just been like that. Uh, the lease I

have paid is 300. Maybe it's cuz I I was

in an accident, but it wasn't my fault.

Kenneth, you need auto insurance, man.

Even if it's 300 bucks. You're in a very risky position right now. Jump on ramiesolutions.com, connect with one of our insurance pros to help you with that. And hang on the line.

We'll send you every dollar premium to help you make a plan for every one of those dollars. Wishing you the best. Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade Warshaw.

And look, if there's anybody who knows about student loan debt, it's me. My husband and I had $280,000 of it. But we were able to dig ourselves out, and you can, too. If your student loan payment and interest rate are burying you, refinancing could be the solution.

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I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruz this hour. Open phones

at88255225. Call us and we'll help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Jennifer's in New Orleans up next. What is going on?

Jennifer.

Hi. How are y'all doing? Well, how are you? Great. How can we help today?

So, um, I have a 17-year-old son, almost

18, and we've pretty much raised him on FPU principal since he was about six or seven years old. And he is in a pretty

serious um, healthy relationship with a

young lady that we do really like. And I know it may seem like too early to tell or anything like that. And we're not the kind of parents that's like, "Oh my god." But, you know, you have You're hopeful she might be the one. I'm pretty sure. So, um, you know, not anytime in

the near future, but she is she is set

on being an orthodontist and sounds expensive.

Exactly. That is my question of how to

approach this with them. We have talked to him just briefly. The conversations have just started. He does think it's dumb to take out student loans.

Um, she's briefly said that she's totally fine with having $250,000 of student loans that might take her 20 years to pay off because that's what usually what orthodontists have. And I kind of briefly said that you guys may not even be afford to eat. And I just don't know how else to approach this um besides maybe getting them to watch the borrow future, take foundations and finance, but you know, it's just starting. Yeah.

Well, a lot of this stems from how she grew up with money and what her parents believe about money, right?

That's what we've been talking about with him. Yeah. And I think it's it's I

mean, he's getting to the age he's 17, almost 18. Um, so, and again, I don't

have kids that age, but you know, there starts to be that level of letting go, right? right? That eventually they're going to be off in college, they're going to be making their own decisions. Like there is that that um that season of life is is coming soon. And so it

always begs the question, it changes a little bit because he's still under your roof in my opinion, but it always begs the question of if no one's asking advice, you know, when do we give it and

what what can we control? Because the truth is you can't control what she chooses to do. Um, and it gets to a

point too that eventually soon they're going to just be making their own decisions regardless of what you guys think or not. Right. So, so if anything, it would be a conversation with him. I I I don't know what y'all's relationship was. Obviously, they've been dating a while, but you're not her parent, right?

So, um, but you are your son's parent.

And so I think having that relationship of being able to have the conversation of, hey, this is what this is what life will look like, you know, if she chooses to go down this path and and then, you know, we get people, you know, in the medical field call us all the time, Jennifer, pharmacists and all this, and they have $200,000 in debt, but they're making $160,000, right? And so usually

the hope is is that you have a bigger shovel if you're choosing to go a path, you know, in this medical type field. It doesn't always happen. you know, they could get married, she gets pregnant and wants to stay home and then all of her options are gone, right? Because she has to go pay the step back. So, so there's a lot of life in there. Um, but as a for

I don't know. I I I I don't know how much you can control it, right? And until they're married, he doesn't really get a vote in her life. He may have influence, but he doesn't have a financial vote as to what she does or doesn't do. The the worrisome part was how flippant she was about it. Well, she's 17. Well, this is normal. I'll just pay off my 300,000 over 20 years. I

think we need to give her a dose of reality. And I think you're right. Like sitting them down and saying, "Hey, would you guys watch this documentary?" But if it's not her daughter, well, if she's over a lot, but if they're not engaged and stuff like I don't know.

Yeah. I mean, I'd probably pop on bar in future because I am that dad, you know, just to have it on in the background. Just to have it on. Yeah. I mean, I guess if it's in like a very organic conversation, you know, but I don't know. It would I don't know. It would feel like overstepping boundary. Do you feel like that if you brought this up, it would be overstepping your boundaries?

Well, I have brought it up to my son and he would he would watch it with him. She

he has brought it up to her and um so we

do plan on doing that this summer. Okay.

And is her family Okay. Jennifer, is he is he about to buy a ring? Like when you say they're serious. Okay. So, honestly, honestly, too, and you know this, Jennifer, at 17, you're 17. I'm like I

knew multiple friends that were dating in high school. They go to college within, you know, nine months or so.

They're they're off on different schools. They meet I mean it you change so much in that season. Also, Rachel got married in college. I wouldn't I had a semester left.

Thank you. Winston graduated a year. A semester left. Thank you, George.

So, it can happen. But what I'm saying though is I do wonder if you're ringing your I I don't want you to worry about something that's not your problem right now. Do you know what I mean? Like it's not like they're getting engaged this summer and getting married and then she's choosing to go in at 18 years old, right?

Like I don't know. We may have different opinions. George, I just think it's one of those things you got to you cross the bridge when you get there. And if she ends up in a bunch of debt and they do end up getting married and she's aligned on the values of wanting to get out aggressively, then they'll be okay.

You can still have a a great marriage, but it is going to add a a wrench in whatever their plans are. Yes, that's right. It just adds that weight. It's going to hold them back building wealth. But the long-term hope is that she gets on the same page with money and goes, "You know what? I'm not waiting 20 years if she does end up taking this debt.

It's I want to be done with this thing in three or four. Yeah. And Jennifer, you do this after school, too. And I know people, majority people change their major, right? Like halfway through. So, I'm like, she may not even end up doing it anyways, right? So, that's what I'm hoping. Yeah. Yeah. And

they may not even be dating. I mean, I don't know. That's a tough one. Yeah.

There's no easy answer. I I don't want you to worry, Jennifer, because I just don't feel like um the reality is happening. It may happen in like four

years, but a lot of factors have to play in for this to actually happen. But I really do appreciate you, you know,

looking out obviously for your son. That's what I'm thinking. It's it's for your son. What she does though is I don't know. Well, keep us posted. Call us back in a few years. Yeah. Okay. So, tell me this. Let's flip the tables a little bit, George. Okay. Let's say Mia comes home. Oh my gosh. We need a different Okay, let's go. First of all, America, Mia is my eight-month-old daughter, just for context. Okay. She

comes home and this is not picking on Jennifer, but it does raise the question, where was she? If she wasn't She was at her boyfriend's house. Okay.

Okay. And her boyfriend's um I was going to use health. I don't want to use money as the example, but health. Okay. And she comes home and she says um yeah, I

mean Brad's mom set me down. She's dating a Brad. She has to date a Brad in this scenario. She's dating a Brad. I already have feelings about she says, "Oh my gosh, Brad's mom." You know what?

You're not the mom. You're the dad. You may feel differently. Brad's mom sat me down and told me like the way you've been feeding us gluten-free, all this stuff is actually really harmful and I actually need gluten and dairy and all of this that you've you've deprived me of, dad. So I I like because of this

Brad's mom like I'm choosing to say.

Would you be like Brad's mom? What the heck? Stop teaching me about I'm trying to put myself in a place where there's a contentious argument about gluten. I'm trying to trying to put it in my world.

I'm trying to put it in your world. Yeah. I mean, I think as an adult, I would have an adult conversation with the other adult and come to a compromise.

Okay. So, you would reach out to Brad's mom and be like, "Hey." Okay. So, that's what I'm saying. Like the blurred line with Jennifer and this girl who's not her daughter. Is it overstepping boundaries? Is it parenting another person's child when the girl isn't asking? You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's not a fiance, it's just a girlfriend. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like future mother-in-laws give unsolicited advice all the time.

That's just a part of being a potential future mother-in-law, you know. I guess so. I don't know. They may never get glad you called it Jennifer. That's a really good It's a It's an interesting scenario to be thinking about for sure.

I would love to hear from from the girlfriend's parents. But I also and I'm thinking about little Charles now, my son. Like if he was Yes. dating a girl and she was going to go I would be like y'all don't do like stop. No. No. Like I

would feel that you know that tension.

Oh, I'd feel the way of like you're about to enter into something really hard that you don't have to enter into right now. Like, you know, cuz the damage hasn't been done yet. So, we're going like we can prevent a lot of this.

Is there another way? That's I don't know. Did the girlfriend parents save for college at all? Did she just on a whim decide I want to be an orthodontist one year before going off to college?

There's a lot of further questioning that we don't have the answer to. 100%.

But yeah, well, if Mia starts eating gluten and she we we have had that discussion in the camel house. You're like, "Will she eat gluten one day?" I don't know. We don't have it in the house. Well, will she get She dates a Brad. It's like alcohol. It's like she's not drinking in our house. I'll tell you that much. Oh, that would have been a better one if you don't if you're a family that doesn't drink in the Oh,

save that one for next time. Yeah, we'll do that next time. Hey, more of your wonderful calls coming up. Always a great conversation.

88825-5225. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls at88255225. You call in and we'll help you take the right next step with your money and your life. Mike is in DC up

next. Mike, how are you doing today?

Hey, I'm doing great, thanks. How are you doing? Well, how can we help? All

right. So, um, around, uh, August last

year, um, I finally decided to accept the fact that I found myself about, uh, well, I'll just tell you, $11,660 in credit card debt. Um, so I

decided to put myself on a budget and start paying it off. Good. Um, I've made about I made about $5,486 in payments toward that debt, which just about. Was that exact? Wow.

That was that was Yeah, that was exact.

And then it leaves me with exactly

$6,173 in um in remaining debt to pay.

Is that all of your debt? As I'm Yes.

Okay.

So, and as I'm paying this off, I I want to get more aggressive with it, but you know, I'll be honest. I'm I'm really a little um worried about pulling money um

away from a a recurring retirement and savings contributions to do it. I just wonder sort of what's your perspective on should I uh stop, you know, paying my

401k to get that debt paid down as aggressively as possible or should I just continue on? How old are you, Mike?

I'm 32. Okay. What are you contributing

right now to retirement?

Um, I contribute about $300 a month

towards it. What percentage of your income is that?

Um, so I make uh 81,000 a year. Um, so I

guess I don't know, back at the napkin math, I'd say that's probably like uh 6%.

You're saying 300 bucks a month?

Uh, 300 bucks a pay period. So 600 bucks a month. Oh, okay. Okay.

600 bucks a month. Well, I'll tell you this much, that's not going to give you a great retirement anyways. And so, our plan is to pause contributions to retirement so that when you get back to investing, you're investing 15% consistently without fail for the next decade or two until you get your house paid off and then you can invest even more. And so, that's the the purpose of us telling people to pause the 401k is twofold.

Number one, it actually frees up the 600 bucks a month that can now go toward the credit card.

Right. And number two, it lights a fire under your butt to get out of debt faster because you desperately want to get back to investing, don't you? Yes.

And the problem right now is you're a little bit comfortable. Like, yeah, you want to get out of debt, but you also want to invest. And you know, nothing's on fire. And I like the the fire that is

created when you pause the investing. It tells your own body, this is serious. We need to get out of this debt ASAP because I want to build wealth and stop paying for the past. What is the debt of the interest rate on these credit cards?

Uh well um I actually was able to

consolidate um my debt into a 0% card.

Um so I had um some highinterest debt

that I've already paid off. Um and the debt that remains is um one singles uh

one single amount on a 0% card and that 0% goes until March next year. Okay. So

how quickly can you pay off if you pause investing? You got the extra 600 bucks back. You got six grand left on the credit card. You're making 81. How quickly can you pay this off if you do all of that?

Uh probably 7 to 8 months. Let's call it

6 months.

Okay. How would you like to be debtree in six months? Do you have any money in savings?

Uh, yes, I do. Um, I've got about I've

got three grand in a brokerage, 70 in

retirement, and uh 1,500 in my emergency

fund. Okay. So, you got 4,500 in liquid cash right now.

Yep. Well, you could you could lower

this I mean more than half today if you

wanted to. If you wanted to keep a $1,000 emergency fund and then throw the

brokerage account and $500 that's in your emergency fund at this debt, then

you're down to, you know, 2,600 bucks.

Yeah.

And if you pause investing now, you have an extra 600. This thing's done in like two or three months, dude. It's done like really soon. And then just build your emergency fund back up for a few months and throw some cash in there to get that back up. And then I would by the end of the year, you'll be investing 15%. Yeah, you have almost tripled your

investing. Do you see the excitement that we have as to why this plan works?

Yes, I do. And I think I just needed to hear somebody tell me it was okay because, you know, I'm just very wary of of liquidating that extra cash. But I I totally see what you're saying. Yeah. And Mike, and the and the reality is too, you know, people kind of are like, "Oh, $1,000 emergency fund. These Ramsey people are crazy." But here's the truth.

If a if a larger emergency fund or a larger emergency comes up, usually you don't have to pay for that like today.

Usually you can say, "Okay, I have two to three weeks. I got to come up with some cash with my emergency fund and figure out how to pay this." You know, you'll pause the debt snowball and figure it out. But the problem is is that people try to do kind of what you're doing, Mike. Six different things at once.

Or they try to go and build up this big emergency fund before they get out of debt and they never even get to getting out of debt because they spend so much time with just the savings portion uh to feel comfortable.

when you become debtree. Your what we say your largest wealth building tool, it's your income. It all comes back to you. And and it's an amazing thing when you say, "Okay, all these credit cards are gone.

There's no bank in my life left." And now I get to decide what to do with my income. And you're able that much faster then to build up a emergency fund to three to six months of expenses was which is what we want you to do. We don't want you to stay at $1,000 forever. But for you, Mike, you're only going to stay there for like two months, month and a half, right?

I'm like, it'll be so fast.

Okay. All right. So, uh, I think I I

think I know what I need to do. Booyah.

Another one bites the dust. Rachel, we did it. Mike's on the path. All right.

Let's see if we can help Jordan out in Boise up next. Jordan, what's happening?

Uh, hi. Um, so my wife and I, we've been married about six months and we're just now starting baby step one. We're working towards getting a $1,000 in the savings account. Awesome. Um, and we we

just feel really overwhelmed. So, we had to move to Boisey for my job. Um, and

the housing market is awful here. Um, and we only have about $6,000 in student loans left. Um and

then probably at about another 4,000 because of a medical emergency that happened um with the ER. Okay. So you got 10K in debt. 10K in debt. Right. So

I I separated those because we're not getting interest on the on the hospital.

It's just a payment plan.

Um, and so yeah, just this idea of, you

know, once we get to that point, by the time we get to, you know, 20% down on a

minimum of a $400,000 house, which is

not a like that's the lowest I've ever

seen it in Boisee. I It just seems impossible to buy a house. Well, you're not going to buy a house now, Jordan. You guys are broke. You don't even have $1,000 in savings. Yeah. So, Exactly.

It's going to be a few years. Yeah. So, it's not a 20% down payment. That's a suggested amount. You can go down to five for a first-time home buyer, so 5%.

Um, and by the time you guys do all of this, how much do you guys make a year?

Uh, together we make about 66,000 before

taxes. Okay. So, yeah, by the time you guys pay off $10,000 of debt and get a

fully funded emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses, it's going to be I mean, 18, 24, 3 years, you know, till

that happens. And honestly, Jordan, it's going to be a whole new world. We got an election year. who knows what interest rates are going to do. Like, we don't know what's going to be going on. Um, but we would still stick with that at least 5% down idea. And I just don't

believe that the lowest house you can find is a $400,000 house in Boisey. I don't believe that. Well, you know why? Cuz I live in Nashville and it's the hottest market right now. And my husband, him, I mean, he just went and and you know, we we were doing the investment real estate right now and he got like a great $200,000 house. It's a two-bedroom, one bath. are flipping it in a in a a place outside of Nashville.

So, I just I I just don't believe the $400,000. I get the house. I debunked it, Rachel. I'm literally on realtor.com right now. There's at least 30 houses that are beautiful three-bedroom, single family homes under $400. All right, Jordan, let's do this. You sound a little like us when we get dramatic sometimes. Focus on one thing at a time.

It's never going to happen. It's going to happen. Get your income up and you'll get calm down. You've been married 6 months.

You guys just You guys just be patient. And in three years, it's a whole new world. And hopefully there'll still be these wonderful houses in Boyisey that I'm looking at right now on Georgia's computer. It's not in the Constitution that newlywoods have to own a home.

So, I hope that frees you, Jordan. Thanks for the call. This is the Ramsay Show. What does the future hold for business?

Economic growth or a recession? Business

taxes will go up or down? AI will help

us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball.

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refy.com/ramsey may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Alexis in Tennessee. We recently received credit cards in the mail for my son and daughter who are both under the age of 12. When I showed them to my husband, he responded that he had taken them out in our children's names to help them establish a credit score before they became adults. We have followed your principles for years. So, I was shocked that he did this without talking to me about it. How should I handle this situation?

This feels like there's a there's a tinge of financial infidelity here.

Behind her back opened up credit cards in the kids names. Yes. And and not and not mention it. And the way that you're when you said, you know, we've followed the principles from year for years.

If I'm assuming that means you guys are on the same page, you're talking about money. I mean, there's some couples that, you know, they don't know what the other one's doing. But if you are following a level of Ramsay and that means you are, you know, connected and you're talking about money. So, the fact that he didn't bring it up, that feels that feels very off to me.

Yeah. And the fact he opened up credit cards in your kids' names. Well, I'm guessing he it's in his name and they got cards with their names on it as authorized users. Yeah. Because if you take out a Yeah. a a line of credit for

a child, right? I mean, you you It's a

trend because of these Tik Tok videos where they go, "Hey parents, here's a life hack for you. Add your kids as authorized users and they can take your credit score when they're 18 and have great credit so they can go get some more debt." Yep. Well, and what we've heard too is people calling the show saying, "Yeah, my parents took out debt in my name to build up a good credit score and then they ended up Yeah.

destroyed the credit because they couldn't handle it." And so you're just like, "Oh, it's Yeah. And and it gets to be a fine line, too, of identity theft." I'm like, if you're, you know what I mean? Like it's kind of to a point of like there was no consent here. I mean, yeah.

So, it's I I don't like it. I don't like playing the game. And so, yeah, but a lot of it is a Tik Tok trend. Yeah.

There's We have an article here related to this. Parents are gaming their kids credit scores. And it's around the same idea of stories of people who had their parents add them as authorized users. There's some horror stories in there.

There's some explanation, but it says many are taking advantage of these tools.

That's perfect. 8% of roughly 1500 American parents surveyed said that at least one of their minor children had a credit card, presumably through authorized usership because kids under 18 can't get their own card. And uh TransUnion data showed that nearly 700,000 22 to 24 year olds had authorized user accounts. Oh, dang.

Yeah. So, and here's the thing. The I don't think these are terrible people. They're just well-meaning parents who have fallen for the system who go, "Well, this is the path. They got to have the credit score because otherwise, how are they gonna rent an apartment and how are they going to travel and they can't book airlines with that?" And I'm going, "Have you ever tried a different route? You don't need to do all this girration to live your financial life.

Yes, there is so much more freedom, you guys, when you're not chasing the credit score. You can live life without a credit score. You can do everything you just said without a credit score. It is possible.

You can even get a house through manual underwriting without a credit score. And so, yeah, I think like you said, it's good intentions them going in saying, I'm going to try to set my kids up, but you're falling right into the system that gets so many people, millions of people stuck and in that wheel of debt. And it's like, it's not worth it. It's not worth playing the game.

And then, let alone having any level of risk for another human being of their financial well-being that if you screw this up, it doesn't just hurt you, it's hurting your kids then at that point.

It's it is absolutely bonkers. And I cover this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke. I have a whole chapter on credit scores, a whole chapter on credit cards, and I unpack how to live life outside of the system. And it's not as complicated or as difficult as people would have you believe.

Yes. In fact, it's way more peaceful. It's way more simple. I don't have 16 cards to manage to try to get the rotating cashback rewards.

I have a debit card and I use it and it has my money on it. And when that money's gone, it is gone. You know, it's funny, George.

Everyone's like, "Oh, but that's the smartest way." Yeah. Yeah. There's got to be so many other hoops to jump through. And you can live your life that way financially.

You can, but you're going to be exhausted. You're going to be exhausted again with a system that is set up to screw you. Like, that's what it is. It's not there to free you and for you to be financially free.

They want you in the system because they make so much money off of you. But when you exit out of the system and you're like, "You know what? I'm going to live with a de with a debit card with cash.

What is sophisticated as beasts? It is.

I'm like, there's just that level there that is it is so much worth it than the mental dance and gymnastics that you have to play. So, here's a game. Here's a wild concept. What if as a parent you taught your kids how to manage money instead of managing debt?

That's all a credit score is is how well you've managed debt. Yeah. Doesn't reflect how much money you have in the bank. doesn't reflect your income.

It just reflects your relationship with the lender. And so that's that's how I'm aiming with my kid. I'm going they're not going to they're going to look at people with credit scores and credit cards going, "Why are they doing all that work, Dad?" I'm like, "I don't know. America's it's crazy.

Lost our minds. It's crazy out there." Oh man. Yeah.

take credit cards out and don't be an authorized user. Say you follow our principles for years while you still clearly have credit cards. You don't get to pick and choose. This isn't a buffet.

This isn't a buffet. Get out of here.

Get out of here. All right, let's go to Shane in St. Paul. Hi, Shane. Welcome to

the show.

Thanks, Rachel, for taking my call. How are you today? We are doing great. Glad you called in. How can we help? Thank you. Well, I'm a relatively new listener. Um, we're on uh baby step number two. Um, and my question is, we

have probably about

$17,500 in credit card debt, okay, and a

couple of other small loans. And um, we

have some money set aside. And I was wondering, is there any way that you can

deviate from that snowball plan?

Uh, tell me. Yeah. Yeah. Why would you want to? What's the What's What are the numbers you're seeing, Shang? It usually comes down to numbers.

Okay. Um, basically, uh, the biggest one we have is we have a a credit card with a high interest rate that has a balance of about 10,000. Okay. How much what's

the interest rate on that?

Uh, it's like 18.5% I think. Okay. And then we

have another credit card with a balance of 7500 and that interest rate is is

9.9%. Mhm.

And then we have a um kind of like a

small um home improvement loan with a

balance of like $350 that we have to pay off. And then um I have

a work loan um that I got through my

work with with 0% interest and I have a

balance of like $800 on that. Okay. And

how much do you guys have saved?

Um, well, we just got our taxes back and

and so we have about 14,500.

Amazing. Oh my gosh. So, the math doesn't matter that much cuz you've just knocked out all the debts but the last credit card. Yeah. In this scenario, right? So my I guess my question is um you know would would it make sense to pay off that the highest one the $10,000

first and then pay the two small loans and then whatever is left pay on that last credit card.

Uh, no. I mean, listen, if you're doing the math, I understand what you're saying because of the interest rate. And what we always talk about on this show, Shane, and what you're going to start to realize is that personal finance and winning with money is so much more about

your behavior than it is about math. And so, if we were all, you know, chasing math, we wouldn't be in debt in the first place, right? So, it's not a math problem. It really is us winning.

And so the fact that you do have a a bulk of money which is absolutely amazing. Um what that does to me that just that jump starts I mean tonight you could have that $800 paid off that $350. I mean those are just like ankle biters right?

And then to pay off a $7,500 credit card in full and it be completely done, like

and knock the next debt down to probably around six grand.

Four grand. Have almost six grand to throw at the 10k debt. So you'd be down to about $4,000 left. So the 18% interest, the way you're going to attack this thing, it's not going to amount to much because you're not going to be in debt, Shane, that much longer.

I mean, when you're looking from a math standpoint, you guys could take on extra jobs and get that paid off in two months. You know, you throw a thousand bucks a month at this thing, it's gone in four months. Yeah.

But, I'm excited for you. You said you're a new caller. So, I'm so glad that you're joining in and using that refund for good instead of a vacation cuz you deserved it. Well done, Shane.

Well done. Well, thanks to uh all the men and women in the booth making the show happen. George, thank you. Thanks to our great audience here in Nashville, Tennessee. And thank you, America. This is the Ramsay Show.

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## 53. Face the Debt You’ve Been Avoiding | February 6, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every [music] Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform [music] your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney [music] and we're answering your calls at8255225.

All right, first up we have Kate in Indianapolis. [music] Hi Kate, welcome to the show. >> Hi John and Rachel.

>> Hello. Hello. How can we help today?

>> Yeah, so I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have a one-year-old and I have another baby due in July. I've been married four years and my husband uh just sat down

with me in the last two weeks and revealed to me that he took out $350,000

in loans and he lost it all. He was using it to invest in day trading.

>> Oh my god. >> And so it was a real real shock to me.

Um I just would like some direction from

you guys or some answers as to what you

think I should do in all aspects. Should

I get a job? You know, marriage advice, stuff like that.

>> God, Kate, I'm so sorry. When did When

did you find this out?

>> Uh, it was a little over a week ago.

>> How did you find out? Did he Did he come to you and tell you or did you find something? >> He came to me and told me.

>> Oh my god. >> And I did discover that it has been going on our whole marriage. I just found that out last night. So before >> where was he getting these loans from?

>> So my husband is self-employed. He started his own business like two years ago and um he has his business has done

really well and we would have been fine.

Like our business was successful. He does excavation and um I don't know I'm

still not at the bottom of you know the purpose of doing that but um anyway his

business was doing really well and so that's why he was able to get such loans if that makes sense. >> So he used did he take out business loans?

>> Yes. >> He told banks I'm borrowing this money for my business and then he day traded it. So he committed a crime too.

>> I I wasn't aware that was a crime.

>> It's fraud.

Okay. >> If I go to a bank and say, "Hey, I want to open a restaurant." And they go, "Cool." And they give me money for my restaurant and I go, "Day trade it?" Yeah. That's fraud.

>> I'm not sure if it's a business loan. I just know he has three loans and I know the names of the places he has them through.

>> So, you don't know if it's like a personal loan or a small business loan?

>> I know that some of them are per I think they're I'm not sure.

>> Yeah. But you're not taking it out on the business to John's point.

>> Okay. Um gosh, Kate, uh how much do you guys make a year?

>> Um he pays himself as a W2 employee with

his company and he u 60,000 a year is

how he does it.

>> Jeez. Okay.

>> Is he will we will be filing bankruptcy

in March. It's not even optional.

There's no way out. >> Yeah. Have you guys spoken to an attorney?

We have and that was that was the

question I had. Should I get a job? My husband doesn't think it's in my best interest to get a job because he thinks it actually might hurt the situation more to help it >> because you're what? Like showing more income or something >> because we file our taxes jointly and so he thinks that's going to increase our household income. >> Dude, you're so far past that situation.

>> Here's what you have here's what getting a job would do for you right now.

Like the world you knew >> as of like two weeks ago doesn't exist anymore.

>> The integrity of the man you anchored your life to doesn't exist anymore.

>> And like you owning that reality is

really important.

>> I understand that. >> And taking money advice and well it's going to bracket from the person that just did that.

>> That's like that's like your spouse cheating on you and then giving you dating advice.

You know what I mean? I'm like I'm not taking that that kind of advice from you in this moment right now.

>> Well, you guys are much smarter and wiser than I. So, what do you have to I

call it financial infidelity.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, Kate, if I were you, I would be I would be separating everything right now because this part of your marriage no longer has trust, right? And John can talk about what it looks like to rebuild that. But for you and you're

expecting, right, a baby, >> correct? Yes. And I already have a one-year-old. >> Yeah.

Um, probably like what I would probably do today is I would go down to the bank and

get a separate checking account and when he pays himself, I would split it 50/50

and just have your own money in an account for right now. And then you guys need to look at what it looks like going forward because for you to what John's

saying is like creating safety for you Kate is what I'm looking for here in a financial situation. Now you having a baby and being pregnant like that. I mean it does it adds so many complexities cuz do you go and put the kid in daycare and try to get a part-time job? I mean realistically like

you know probably not like daycare is going to cost as much as you know what I mean. I know how expensive that stuff is. So, um, >> so looking at, so what I would do probably right now is I would tell him I need 50% of the paycheck and I'm having my own account because you need to start rebuilding your own side of your of the

finances in marriage. And then unless

you guys can get to a point where you are rebuilding your marriage and the trust of the money comes after all of that, but um you're going to probably be in a holding pattern for a bit. And I wouldn't um I I would want every login information. I would have every account.

I would freeze his credit so he can't go and borrow more. Okay.

>> And free yours. Freeze yours, too. >> Freeze yours. Um your child's too.

people take out loans in their kids' names and commit fraud that way. Um, >> okay. >> And and the thing with what he's done, and I don't obviously we don't know him, but and John, you probably can speak to this way better than I could, but when you find yourself in a hole that deep, you almost become cra like you start to like make decisions that aren't even rational to out of the freak out of trying to get yourself out of this much. >> You go into survival.

You don't you're not thinking anymore. >> Yeah. There's no rational. So So him like >> it's not an excuse.

It's not excuse, but it's a context. >> Yeah. So, like him taking money out on one-year-old.

anything else. And I would Yeah. I I mean, I would make sure you have every login account. Do you guys have um I mean, do you have investments? I mean, all all like when you file bankruptcy, they're going to be taking it so much.

Like do they >> you're talking about like your like what investments as far as >> like 401k Roth IAS. Do you guys have any of those? >> He does. I have one, but it's just in my name. So they're not going to touch it because all the loans are in his name, not mine. >> So I would have I would even get just >> I don't know if that's how that works. >> The login information on all of that.

Like do you know what? I would get as much information as you can to have access to what you need to get to if the time comes. >> And you you just explained it. you learned something two weeks ago and then you found something out last night.

>> I I think I can probably count on one hand the number of times somebody has come forward with a spouse and said, "Hey, I screwed up. I've been cheating.

I screwed up with our money. I haven't been employed for a year." Whatever. And they get the whole story the first time out.

So for you, I would guess that there are I would I would predict that there are going to be waves of you uncovering and finding things out. And so the conversation you begin with your husband starts like this. You husband have

burned our trust to the ground for the

next seven days. Here's a road map that I want you to follow that we can start practicing in teeny tiny tiny little ways to rebuild trust. I want every login. I want our credit reports. I want I want my own checking account. And then 7 days from now, we're going to get you're going to give him another road map very clear that he can follow. And then he gets to decide whether he's going to follow that or not.

[music]

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[music]

[music] Up next we have Marshall in Kansas City.

Hi Marshall.

>> Hi. How are you? >> We're doing great. How can we help today?

Well, I have about $50,000 in debt. Um,

and about a $92,000 mortgage. And I have

a little bit in savings cuz my wife had some medical issues [clears throat] that we are still waiting on the bills on.

So, I didn't know the best way to handle upcoming bills that we don't know totals on. >> Okay. What's What's the medical issue?

What's going on?

>> She's having some heart issues. So, she's seen the cardiologist and other things like that. >> Okay. How much you guys have saved for that? >> I have $8,000 in savings right now.

>> Okay. And are you guys at the beginning of this or these will be kind of final medical bills once they hit >> It's still going on. She's still seeing the doctors. >> Okay. Um the 50k in debt. What can you

break that down for me? What each >> That is $18,000 on a truck and $32,000

in student loans. >> Okay. How much you guys make a year?

>> Um, right now she's in nursing school. I don't know yearly, but I make $864 a week. >> Okay. So, what do you guys bring home a month? What hits your checking account each month?

>> Almost $4,000. >> $4,000. Okay.

Okay. Um, I mean, honestly, Marshall, just just seeing everything right now, I would sell the truck.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. How how much could you get for it, do you think?

Uh, maybe 30.

>> You could get 30 for it >> probably. >> Oh my gosh. All day. >> It's pretty new. I've been I've been paying a lot extra on it every month.

Paid off in the next six months.

>> You could get it paid off in the next six months >> if I depleted the savings. And I also have 10,000 or in retirement that I was told I could pull out. >> No, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. >> Yeah. I would not I wouldn't touch retirement to pay off consumer debt. So, I would leave leave that 10,000 there.

That's not worth the truck at this point. Um, >> okay. Cuz she's also in school right now and will start working come May when she graduates nursing school >> in May. Okay. What will she Does she have any idea what she'll be making?

>> Uh, 40 something an hour.

>> But I mean, that's assuming she doesn't have heart troubles and she doesn't have medical issues, right?

>> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> There's just a lot of whatifs down the road. I would I would act on what you have in your hand right now.

>> Yeah. So, I mean, honestly, if you could get 30 for it, that's unbelievable. I mean, I would take it and then I mean, I would spend maybe >> five grand, >> five, six grand. Yeah. Four grand, whatever you can, just to get something significantly cheaper, obviously. Um

>> Okay. >> And then, yeah, I mean, and then out of that, you'll have probably 10ish left over, 8 to 10,000. And then throw that at the student loans, you know, and you'll be down to at that point probably

22 to 24,000, which is amazing. Like that's a that's a significant jump going. You just cut you just basically cut everything in half debt wise. Yeah.

>> And then if in 24 months if she's making 40 bucks an hour and you keep working hard, then go get whatever truck you want, man. You can just write write a check for it. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Sounds good. I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Yep. Absolutely. Thanks, Marshall. All right. All right, let's go to Joseph in Colia, South Carolina. Hi Joseph, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, how you doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, um, my wife Tally and I are moving to Columbia, South Carolina in mid-March. We're we're actually in Texas right now. Um, we want to buy a house on the VA loan and we want to do this for two reasons. Um, one, we want to start building equity on real estate. And in Colombia, it's cheaper to buy than it is to rent in terms of monthly mortgage.

Um, here are the caveats. We still are

$40,000 in debt in debt between two cars

and her subsidized student loans. And,

um, we we do have around 16,000 in our

joint brokerage in our high yield savings. Um, but I was wondering if you

guys have any advice moving forward um

for us.

>> Don't do anything you're about to do.

>> Don't buy a home. [laughter] >> You're going to hate our You're going to be mad that you called us. >> I know. Cuz when broke people buy houses, they become broker is what happens.

So yeah, the monthly payment may not be, but when the roof leaks and the water goes out and I mean and then life starts happening as a homeowner, you guys have no money. Or put it this way, you're you want to build equity on one side of the equation and at the exact same time you're paying a fixed interest rate on a depreciating asset on two different cars on the other side of this teeter totter.

>> Right. Okay. >> So you it's like I want to fill this bathtub up really high and I just shot two holes in the back of it.

>> Yeah. Okay. And so it's like getting your whole house, get your whole house in order and then man, if you guys move

focused with focused intensity, you'll be saving up and get a down payment in no time. >> Yeah. And and moving to a new city anyways, Joseph, we always recommend just rent for a year just to get the bearings. I mean, I you know, Columbia, it's such a great it's such a great city, but I even think about Nashville.

Like >> when I moved to Nashville, my wife and I rented for a year. >> Yes. There's so many different parts and neighborhoods and you're just like, "Okay, what you know, what side of the city do we live on? What does commute look like?

What does traffic look like? I mean, there's so many things to consider when you buy a home. I mean, that's such a long-term purchase and to rush into something in the name of building equity, right? Um, it's the it's the wrong approach is what's happening.

You're kind of going from the other end. So, yeah.

>> So, between the two of us, we make about 160 per year.

>> Amazing. >> She makes Yeah, she makes about 75. I make about 90. >> Okay. >> Um give or give or take uh if the year is good. >> Will will you make that same amount in South Carolina?

>> Yeah. I mean I work from home as a civil engineer and she's uh in the Air Force.

>> Amazing. Okay. So here's what I would do. Joseph, honestly, if I were you, Do you guys have kids?

>> No, not yet. >> No. Okay. Um so yeah, I would go to

Columbia. I would rent for a year. I would take my 16,000 and I would throw it at the smallest debt. What do you owe on what do you owe on the cars?

>> So, I owe about 20,000 on my truck and

she owes about 15,000 to a Navy Navy

Federal loan we took out for uh a used uh Atlas. >> Okay. And then what's the student loans?

>> Uh I think it's about 10,000.

>> 10,000 there. Okay. So, yep. So, I would I would throw 10,000 of the student loans tonight. Just get those knocked out completely. Um, and then you'll have

$5,000 cuz I want you to keep $1,000 as an emergency fund. Take her car down to 10,000. Okay? So then you guys have $30,000 and left in debt. And what I would do is

I you guys make 160. I would live on 60

like live on nothing. Like get a crappy one-bedroom apartment, have no lifestyle, and you hundred grand, right?

So, you go I mean, of course, this is before taxes, but the idea is that you pay off all the debt. You'll have $70,000. Part of that will be an emergency fund. And then part of that's an amazing start to a down payment. And then you do that even for not even one more year, six more months, and get at least a 5% down payment. And I would avoid the VA loan. There's so many fees.

Um, it's not a great option. Okay? So, I would just do a traditional mortgage, 15-year fixed rate mortgage, and put at least 5% down on a home. And I think, Joseph, you can do all of this in 18 to 24 months.

Pay off all your debt, get an emergency fund, get a down payment, and I promise you the peace you will have doing that, having no payments, no debt, no risk, a fully funded emergency fund, heading into home ownership, like that is so much more of an enjoyable process than having two car loans, student loans, not a ton of savings that could be wiped out in a second, and you know what I mean? And you're just you're just living on the edge there.

>> Sure. Thanks, guys. >> Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the call.

>> Man, we had to tell two people.

I don't know if they're going to do it. Neither of them are going to do it. >> I wouldn't tell them to sell it. They can pay theirs off.

>> Yeah, >> Joseph can. Yeah. >> Um, yeah, because they they'll get hers down to 10 and then they have his $20,000 truck, but they make 160. I mean, they can >> they can. >> You're always about selling stuff. No, I I I I just don't I I think when somebody

set gets their mind set on, I'm going to buy a house no matter what. >> He's going to >> It's so hard to back up and say, "I'm going to do that, but in 2 years." >> Yes. >> And it's so hard on this side of the equation to be like, I I'm telling you that 24 months is so worth it. It's so worth it.

It's so worth it. >> Mhm. And it's almost like someone has to go through it and [music] then their car that they owe a payment on breaks down and they roll that negative equity and they're going to call us back in two years and they're going to be like, "Man, I should have listened." >> I know. Yeah, Joseph, you may not take the advice, but I'd implore you, >> bro.

You're like 18 months away from changing your life forever in a positive direction.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Well, we know [music] that through

work here, surveys, studying

people, all [laughter] the situations.

>> What are you talking about? >> There are so many people though in their marriages that are frustrated. [music] They're overwhelmed. They're lonely and we have the answer for you.

>> We've got it. >> We've got the whole answer. Yeah. Um >> so, and let me say this, for years I pushed back on this. I said, I don't think we could get a we could get something that would help in the way that I think people need help.

>> And the zeros and ones guys here, we all

got we've been working for a couple years now and what they've come up with is unbelievable. >> Is unbelievable. [clears throat] So, we have a new app. John Deloney has

a new app out. Yeah, it's it's called the Together app. Um, and it's in the Apple Store. Android folks, take 30%

off. We're making we're going to make one for you. We're working on it, but it's it's it's cool. But right now, it's in the app store. And it is incredible.

It's uh micro habits for your marriage.

It will text you or not text you but it will walk with you on daily habits and

you [snorts] get it will learn you and you get to decide what what avenue you want to take where you want to focus on whether you got small kids whether you got you're dealing with mental load whether you got a partner who's just completely unplugged like all of it and it is incredible >> it's so good >> and here's my favorite part besides that it's awesome my favorite part is

we walked into this thing knowing that everybody's struggling financially and so instead of saying, "We want to do all of this stuff and it's going to cost $100 million." We started with it cannot

be more than six bucks a month for both of you. And so this app works if you are the only one working on your marriage.

It works with just one player mode, but you can bring your spouse along for for no extra charge. And so it's a cup of coffee a month >> to to literally transform your marriage, not in big firework shows, but in in in daily micro habit change. And the feedback has been astounding. It's been awesome.

>> You guys have had people >> for we've been thousands and thousands of people we've been testing >> and the amount of tweaking and doing I mean all of it. It's amazing. Yeah. And what's so funny is it it is an app so you're on your phone but it gets you off your phone.

thing >> action based >> for your for your spouse for your marriage for you. And it's transformational. It's called the together app. You can search the Together app in the app store and it's a

cup of coffee a month. And um you can

you can bring your spouse with you for the same the same price. >> And let me just say this too, John. Like it it is for couples that are struggling, but it's also for those that are like, "Hey, we just want we need a reminder. How do we how do we just like level up?

How do we just become more intentional?" Right? So even if you're not like >> in this like, "Oh gosh, we're in a terrible place." You get it because what it does is it it reminds you. It keeps things top of mind for you and it actually gives you creative ideas.

And and I'm glad you brought that up.

>> The most common thing I hear from couples is we've become co-managers of our house. Yes. >> Right. We are passing each other in the night with soccer schedules and budgets and both of us are working too much. And this is a tool to help y'all laser in

and refocus on why y'all even liked each other in the first place. >> That's right. >> And um it gets you out of your head and into action and get you off your phone, which is which is my favorite part of it. >> So great. So yep. Go to the Apple Store and download it to get today. It's the Together app. All right, let's go to Travis in San Antonio. Hi Travis, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, how you guys doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, oh man, where to begin? Um, see if I

can summarize this quickly. I basically

had an emergency. We were renting from my grandpa. My baby got lead in her blood, so we had to vacate quickly.

>> She's okay. We caught it in time. Thank God. >> But, uh, we're living with the in-laws and have been for about 6 months now.

And, um, you know, I know that throws red flags for people when I talk about it, but it it hasn't been terrible, but now it's getting to the point where we're really just itching for our own space. >> Sure. >> And we're not really sure what next steps to take. Um, I've been working my

way through baby step three trying to get to a $20,000 emergency fund. That's

3 to six months expenses for us roughly.

And that's me being extremely hard on myself. >> Um I was trying to consider, you know,

roughly $1,000 a month um for a

potential payment on something. Um is

that stupid?

>> Is it stupid? I mean, I don't think so.

Depends on I mean, how much margin do you guys have? How much do you make a make a month?

>> Um I I make roughly 3,900 a month and my

wife stays at home. She doesn't work. We have no debts. >> Okay. >> Um and I'm at about $4,000 in the

emergency fund, but we're we're nearing that that threshold of desperation where

we really just want our own space again.

>> Sure. No, I hear you. So, in your area,

>> would you guys be able to find something

for $1,1200?

>> Um maybe. Uh we're we're looking we're

trying to we're looking at rent homes.

Um but my boss has also offered he has

offered me a owner finance situation.

>> No, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. Don't do that. >> See, and that was what I thought too >> because then if something happens and you lose your job, you lose your house, you lose. Just don't do that. Don't go down that. Don't cross those streams like like the Ghostbusters, dude.

>> Okay. >> Let your boss just remain your boss.

>> Yeah. Okay. I'm glad you guys

It's a generous offer. I'm sure he's trying to help you out, but don't tangle things up even further that way because untangling that just becomes a nightmare. >> Okay. >> Um, Travis, what do you do for a living?

>> I I work in doors and hardware. I do um,

you know, we do like commercial like for schools and stuff. >> Okay. Okay. >> And do you have kids?

>> I have one daughter. She's Yeah, she's about a year old. >> Okay. So, for you guys, I mean, if you're looking to move out, we always say that your rent should be no more than 25% of your take-home pay or your mortgage. Um, and so for you guys, I mean, that's that's a,000 to 1,200, right? If you kind of go a little bit above that. So, I would want to stay within >> those mean within those parameters, which means you're going to have 3,000 left to live on.

>> Have you guys done a monthly budget? Do you know what your Well, I guess I mean, you obviously don't have rent or utilities and all of that, but I would kind of do a mock budget and just say, "Okay, if we were to move somewhere, what do we [clears throat] think everything's going to cost?" And and list out everything you guys spend money on in the month and see if you can get it within that. I mean, it has to be within the 3,000.

>> Roughly. Yes. Okay. After living with your in-laws for 6 months, how have you only been able to save four grand?

>> Um, well, there were some complications for like my wife had some medical stuff she had to deal with uh postpartum.

>> Um, >> great. I'm glad y'all were able to take care of that stuff. That's good.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then there's been like

here and there I've had to buy new work boots and new tools because I just started in this job less than four months ago. >> Okay. >> Oh, wow. Um, >> do you see a raise coming anytime soon, Travis?

>> Um, there's potential for one. Uh, this company's fairly new, so we're growing.

>> Okay. >> And I think I'm just trying to find my groove within within the ranks, so to speak. >> Are you 40 hours with them?

>> Uh, I'm close to 50 hours, but I'm salary. I make roughly about 900 a week.

>> Okay. >> Um, and um, like I said, my wife doesn't

work, but I'm also starting to take on side jobs because I'd really like to start my own business. Yeah, that's great. Honestly, you'll probably make, you know, if that if you get that going, you'll probably make more than what you're doing now, which is awesome. >> Rachel, tell me if I'm wrong here. What I hear with you, brother, is

like, simply put, y'all have a math problem.

>> Okay. >> And you're you you have a value in your home that you want your wife to stay at.

Y'all want her to stay at home. you want

to work with this new company and get them off the ground and you're working 50 hours a week, but you're just I mean you're making about as much as if you went to became become a manager at a Starbucks.

>> Huh. >> And so like you're you're not making 50 grand a year, right? [clears throat] >> Right. No, not quite.

And so, and so you've got these competing values that y'all are trying to stretch out, but the math is y'all can't afford to live out on your own. Which tells me you you and your wife have to go back and say, "Okay, which one of these values that we've laid out if 6 months, for 1 year, for 2 years, we're going to pause on so that we can get ahead for the future." [music] But this is moments when people make desperate situations like >> Yeah. This is where the baby stays with the in-laws and she works for three days a week.

Yeah. Totally. I mean, you find ways to earn this, especially to get you guys to a point that you have your emergency fund, and by that time, hopefully, you've gotten a few raises [music] and time has passed and your income's gone up. >> Some good side hustle jobs.

>> Yes. But in the meantime, uh John's right. You guys have an income problem, [music] Travis.

[music]

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[music]

>> [music] >> So there are certain elements of money [music] that I would say each of us as hosts have a thing that we're just like that is so annoying. [music] Like whatever it is, right? Davees is always people that can't find a job.

He's always like, I don't know how people don't work for 6 months. Like I'd go I'd go like cut yards. Like I' I would do something, right? Like he like we all kind of have our thing. My thing for for some reason, John, more and more and more. It's sports betting. I find it

so annoying.

>> Like I hate it. You find it annoying.

>> It is like it is getting under my skin more and more. The bros that and all the

app now that I know I'm like we're watching football and it's like every commercial >> is an app for sports betting. The amount of money that's going into it and the target audience is a bunch of freaking like 20 30 year old dudes for the most part. Mhm. >> They have a And I'm just like And they're all complaining they can't afford a house.

And I'm like, "Oh my gosh." Like, "Y'all are so y'all are annoying. It's annoying. I hate I hate it.

>> Yes. They want that. Yes.

>> And I hate it because of the way the the playbook is just it's like an old school after school special. Like the first joint is free, right? [laughter] And it's like your first bets are free. It's like it's such an old school playbook, but it's so predatory.

>> Rope you in. >> Yeah. >> And you keep betting and then they prop bet you. It's like, "Hey, will his shoe fall off in the fourth quarter?" And and you can't stupidest stuff. >> It just latches into every nook and cranny. >> And people get in such trouble with it.

And that's what's so frustrating.

>> That's why I hate it because it's it's like I love I love watching the fights

with somebody and they're like, "Dude, should I put 10 bucks on it?" I love that. That's funny. That's like a thing. >> Yes. That's like old school just like hey we're sitting around I bet on a horse for steeple chase five bucks on >> the when it becomes goes from fun to hey

bet we can make a bunch of money to I bet we could get a whole generation hooked on this >> to the tune of billions and billions of dollars and then we talk to their spouses who have lost everything or we talk to them and they can't >> go to school they can't like get a job like it's so destructive.

>> Yes. >> Now I hate it. H okay so as the Super Bowl is approaching uh an article came out in ESPN that said that approximately 1.76 billion dollar is expected to be bet on the Super Bowl this year. It's the highest. It's a 27% increase year-over-year. So it's getting worse and worse. $1.7 billion in sports

betting for the Super Bowl. I'm like I think we could like cure clean water.

Like I feel like we could use this money and like help a lot of people. You know what I mean? I'm just like, "Oh." Or help your families, help yourselves. I don't know. So much good could be done.

I just I can't I can't do it. Yep. And and uh Bill Miller uh who's the president of AGA said that no single event brings fans together like the Super Bowl. And this record figure shows just how much Americans enjoy sports betting as a part of the experience.

That's like that's like >> sitting outside of a methodone clinic and being like nothing brings people

into a long line. It just shows it's like so not true.

>> Not true. The destruction and all of it and all the I'm like oh my gosh. Please take your money and fund your Roth IRA 27year-old. Please. >> Yes. Take half the money, buy some great nachos. >> It is. >> And then put the other bit of that money. Pay your credit card off this month. Just say, "I'm about to bet on the game. I'm going to pay my credit card. >> I'm going to do something smart with my money." Oh, sports betting. The bros. It

used to be the crypto bros that bothered me. It's now the sports betting bros.

[laughter] >> I can't do it. >> The next segment we'll talk about is >> the women that drive me crazy.

>> We can't. We for sure won't.

>> It's all the [laughter] Yes, >> for sure we won't.

>> All the essential oils. You know what I That's always [laughter] >> Everyone has their thing, but the sports betting man. Oh my gosh. Well, bet the Super Bowl. Yep. Coming up. Uh, yeah.

We're gonna You're gonna see it. Don't bet. Don't bet on it if you haven't already. Save your money.

>> Save your money. >> Save your money. >> All right, let's go to Cincinnati. We have Amber on the line. Hi, Amber.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hello. How are you guys doing? >> Hi. We're doing great. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. I just had a question.

And I know you guys always talk about um you know like whole life insurance policies and how they're not great and >> some life insurance some life insurance policies. >> Okay. Life is awesome.

>> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. So we have we have a term life policy. Um and both of us have you know

policies obviously through our employers too and you know we've done a good job with a term life making sure we have kids and making sure that they're taken care of. You know god forbid something would happen. But the question I have is

my husband was I guess you could say gifted. Um a family member when he was a

little kid bought him a whole life insurance policy. >> Y >> and he still has it. Um I think I think

the value of it is like4 or $50,000 or

something like that if something would happen. And he's never paid anything for

it. Now what's happening is the annual premium which looks like it's about $88 or something like that. it just comes out of the interest that's earned. So, he's just kind of kept it. Um, I go the

route of, well, do we cash it out and then, you know, invest it, you know, or I mean, heck, even, you know, in our high yield savings account, the money's there, you know what I mean? Um, I I guess we're having that constant debate on what is the right thing to do with this. And I think he's going on the cautious side, but I'm like, we have term life. We have life insurance through our, you know, >> we don't you're covered.

How long is your term life for? What's um what's the policy for? >> Um it goes all the way up until um we both retire. But at that point, we will be in a good situation that I mean, our kids will be graduated from college.

You know what I mean?

>> Cash it out today. You were right.

>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Your hunch was right. You can tell your husband that we said you were right.

>> Okay. >> I feel good. Amber, >> I would cash out for the end of the day.

>> Yeah. And you'll just forfeit the death benefit and all of that, but you'll and you'll pay some taxes and all of it, but what you get out of it though, it literally if you just put that in the market, and we don't know what the market's going to do this year, >> but I mean, in the past few years, some some years, it's been like 20%. Like, it's crazy what the returns have been in there. and and like you said, or even sitting in a high yield savings account earning three and a half%.

Like anything is better than this because what they sit there and do is try to mix your investments and insurance and they try to bundle it all together. And it actually is even though y'all aren't necessarily paying for it, I hear that you're paying out of the interest, but it's expensive. It's a horrible investment. You could be making so much more out in the market.

And so I would I would take this I would take this 40 grand for sure, drop it into like an index fund or go to Vanguard or you know put it in a >> but I like you put in high yield savings account like the way you were thinking about it is the way I would think about it. >> Um like >> I was just thinking that extra cushion maybe we have a cushion but even more cushion. >> Yes. And then it would be something you could actually use.

They dangle that death benefit out in front of you >> and then they take your money and they invest that in the market.

>> And [snorts] then they make the spread.

>> I think his thing is always just, God forbid something would happen to him, he wants to make sure that the boys are taken care of. You know what I mean? >> Term life insurance, right? >> Is that $50,000 going to change your life?

If he passed away today, would that $50,000 be what makes or breaks you?

>> No. I mean, the term is going to pay for the house, you know, pay for everything.

I mean, we're we've got plenty. We don't owe anything besides just a little bit left on our house. >> Okay. How How old are you guys? How old are you, Amber? >> Um, I'm 47. >> 47. Okay. I'm just like just doing a quick calculation. If you just put it in right now, just in the market, and you just didn't touch it until you were 67, it'd be $435,000.

[laughter] >> And that's that that's not adding anything. That's just put move like what John said. If you just moved it from one account to the other today and then just left it, you got almost half a million in there. So, >> well, and typically I guess this is the debate we keep going on.

He goes, "Well, it is making money." You know what I mean? Like, and I'm like, "Well, like, but >> not a lot." He's had it since he's a child. >> Yeah. For the steward.

>> He's had it. He's had it since he's a child.

>> It is making money. It's making money for them.

>> Yeah. >> Not for y'all. >> Cuz how old is he? Very true. >> How old is he? He He's uh 52.

>> Okay. And when did they open this? When he was like 2 years old.

>> I I have no clue. I >> But seriously, think about that. Wait, let's just say let's say he did. Let's say they did because a lot of family members will do this. They a grandparent or someone will a child is >> born more like later in life. You know what I mean? Like maybe a teenager or something like that. >> Let's just say let's just say uh yeah 12 years old. 40 years. It's $40,000.

>> It's terrible. It it's shameful that someone would call that an investment product and look at you and say we're you're going to be winning here >> in 20 years. You'd have almost half a million, [music] right? It is it is a ripoff. Whole life insurance, you guys, it's terrible. It is terrible. So, get term what you guys have, Amber. You [music] It's inexpensive.

You get it, you set it 15, 20 years, whatever you need, and then whatever you would have paid for whole [music] life, just invest the difference there, and you're going to come out spades ahead.

So, yeah, Amber, you are right. I'm happy to say it. So there you go.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay [music] Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

I'm Rachel Cruz hosting today with Dr.

John Deloney. So give us a call at88255225. [music]

Up next we have Cameron in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi Cameron, welcome to the show.

>> Hi Rachel, how are you?

>> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today?

So, I um I am $74,000 in debt and um I

have two jobs and I used to beund I used to be $131,000 in debt two years ago and now I'm 74. >> Look at you, girl. That's like 60 grand.

>> I know. I know. It's been really hard.

Um I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease a year ago. >> Oh my gosh. >> Um and it's been kind of getting worse

over the last couple of months. And um

I'm trying to figure out should I keep working? I've been working my butt off paying on about 20 $2,2500

every month towards the debt. And I'm

struggling to work. Like I'm having issues just every day. And I love what I

do. Like I love both my jobs. My bosses are amazing. Yeah. >> And I just want to sh Everyone's been telling me you should work less. You should work less. And I just I don't know what to do honestly.

>> Yeah. What do you do for uh what are your two jobs? Um, so my first job I'm a

claims associate and then my second job I'm a retention specialist for a a middle sites insurance agency.

>> Okay. Okay. >> Which job pays the most?

>> Um, my 9 to5 my claims ro.

>> Your claims. Okay. And then you're And then how much overtime are you working with the other job?

>> I'm not I don't get overtime. I only get salary. Okay. >> And then I get 21 an hour at my second

job. >> You're doing the other one? Okay. Okay. And how how many hours do you work that extra job? >> Um, [clears throat] so I work an additional I so I work from anywhere between 16 to 22 hours every week

>> with them on top of the 40. So you're working 60 hours.

>> Mhm. Cameron, this is going to sound bananas. Can I tell you >> I'm proud of you.

Not not for working yourself to where you have like like a like [snorts] a chronic illness. Not that. But like you've been working really hard doing whatever it takes and I want to applaud you.

>> Thank you. >> That's pretty impress. It's really really impressive.

>> Are you single? >> It's been so hard. >> I know. I am engaged.

>> Okay. >> Um and I've been working so hard. He's I

also have been battling bipolar disorder and I've been doing all the work going to therapy psychi doing talking to my psychiatrist doing all the medications and that's been extremely commotive as well and the hardest part is that sometimes the Crohn's medicine messes with the bipolar medicine and I've been

it's just been really hard and everyone keeps telling me work less work less but I'm like I want to be debtree and like you should live you should live and I'm just like I want I just don't want to have any of this debt and >> well there's a middle ground There there's a middle ground. When people say you should just live like often people

have in their mind like beach vacation and just eat whatever that means. Yes.

Yes. >> For you just live means

like I want the world to hear your story and I especially want this guy who's won

the lottery getting to marry you and your community who gets to interact with you. Um, you're you're close to like pushing your body over a threshold where it says I quit.

And so I want you just to live. Like I mean that for real. Do you get what I'm saying? >> Not yolo, but I want you to be healthy and okay.

>> This is really hard. >> I know. I would much rather you

take six months and just work one of the jobs. Even if you have to take a medical leave or whatever, take six months and exhale

so that you can come back stronger. Um, I've I've met with guys who train Olympic athletes and they say the hardest part about training an Olympic athlete is getting them to rest,

getting them let their bodies recover.

and your body is is is systematically saying, "Hey, we can't. This is this is a heavy heavy load." And so, I want to applaud you for going all in. And I also want to hear you I want you to hear me and Rachel say how proud of you we are.

And we want you to listen to your body so that you can cross the finish line, not in a casket to be to be frank, but cross the finish line with your arms held high. Right. It's just so hard because I just don't I just I know I'm I just I want to take responsibility and get it done. And I just I used to blame

like I before I used to just blame everyone else about all my problems. And when I finally figured out that I was the you know the problem, I started to I just wanted to start working on it. And so every day you are doing my work.

>> You are. And it just feels >> but take but taking some time to make sure your body's healthy that that that is continuing you that's you continuing to take ownership of you.

>> Yeah. And Kim I do want to give you that permission that you know people that call in and there's they have a you know even a child who's sick and their attention has to be on that or themselves like there are moments to pause baby step two to take care of

yourself or someone around you. Okay. So

that [clears throat] that is what we tell people. Okay. Getting out of debt is very important, but it's not literal life and death. We make it sound like that on the show a lot because [laughter] we want to be so extreme for people to get it, but it's really you don't even need taking care of Cameron is really important.

And I'm not worried about you being lazy or not doing anything, right? It's not you're not calling us up being like, I work 15 hours a week and it's just too much. And we're like, >> no, you want to work one 50our a week job. Good grief.

Yes. >> Right. That's awesome. >> I mean, like, >> you're doing great.

And if you need to just and I know it's frustrating because you're you're you have momentum and what's hard too Cameron I can hear it is like mentally you are so strong.

like I see this and this is what I want.

My mind wants to go here but my body's not letting me. And it's usually the opposite for people. Their bo their body able to do whatever able-bodied but they

don't have the mindset. But you you got it girl. [clears throat] So so so taking care of your body is not

going to ruin this whole thing. It's not.

It's just I'm I'm so I'm I'm so scared too just losing that extra income too.

Like just I haven't I've been doing it for so long and pay so it's just I'm scared too cuz my bills feel like they're so high even like I just like it's so much and I just when I look at

like my budget and I like okay so I I will only have like a thousand left if I just had my main job and I wouldn't be able to put and that's all I would have after bills. Sure. >> Like I want to >> What's left, Cameron, of the of the 74,000? What kind of debt is it?

>> So, I have um five So, I have about $5,000 of credit cards left.

>> Um two personal loans. They're about one

is 2,600.

The other is 6,000.

>> Okay. >> Um well, it's at 4,800, excuse me. I've been paying double the payment for it.

Um then I have a car. So, I have a Tesla

Model Y. I pay um so that's 25,000.

>> Okay. >> And then, um I have two repos that are

on my credit >> that I've been wanting to get settled there. One is 19,000, the other is um

the other is 13 and then um that's it.

Right. And that's all I have right now.

>> Okay. Are you >> I'm sorry. I IRS debt of 5,000.

>> Oh, okay. Okay. We may move that up to the front just to get that out of the way. Um, have you are you you said you're paying extra on that personal loan of the 6,000. Are you paying extra on everything?

>> Everything. So, I'm putting so for my my loan for the IRS is 131, but I paid uh

300 everything. >> Okay. So, what I want you to do, Cameron, I want you to list back out all of your debts. And I want you to just do if you just did the minimum payment on everything [music] and you put everything towards the IRS debt.

I want that momentum to be building because you're kind of spreading everything out, which is amazing. And you've done a fantastic job. [music] I just want more intensity, focus on each one. And so, pay minimum payments on everything and pay the smallest one [music] off first.

And you got this, Cameron.

Call us back if you need any more help because we are cheering you on.

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All right, let's go [music] to Philadelphia and we have Janelle on the line. Hi Janelle.

>> Hi Rachel. Oh, hi John. How are you guys? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today? >> Um, so I am currently going through a divorce. Um, and my question is, what

would be the best way to buy my ex um,

manchild spouse out of my home?

[laughter] >> Shots fired. >> Joseph burn. Oh my gosh.

>> You talk about sports betting. Oh, is that is he one of those >> typical sports betting, marijuana, video

games? >> Stop it. How long have you been married? What a manchild. >> We were married for six years. When I um

met him, he was working full-time. Um I

started going to nursing school and I kind of continued. I went for my bachelor's and then along the course of I think our third kid um like when our

third kid started like came I figured it

would be easier for me to pick up an extra shift or two as um a nurse than have him work.

So, I regretted I'm regretting having

him become a stay-at-home dad because that was like the end of it. And every time I asked him to start working again afterwards, >> there was an excuse. And now we're um at

this point and he um kind of hit the jackpot. >> Let me free you from this. You didn't cause that in him.

>> Okay.

>> Don't hold that. That's a man. That's a

father of three kids choosing to not get up and co-sup support his family.

>> Yeah. Um I was actually well he's

not that you need to know this but he actually um adopted my oldest son and um

so I no in the beginning everything seems good and I was getting out of a very um abusive relationship who I had a child with and it just kind of ended up >> you know >> well we'll walk you through what to do with your money but I want I want to set you free from that today.

>> Thank you. Do I really I needed to hear that? >> Every husband, every father

needs to go get a job.

>> Yeah. >> I I I kept saying I was married to um three people, my him and my in-laws,

because anytime there was an argument, his mom would say, "What's going on?" She would come to the house. It was just like it was the worst. And you you're not married to a manchild. It's like an actual child. >> I can't even make it up. Yeah. And Yeah.

and they're paying for his lawyer and we're going to be going through custody battles and he thinks he needs 50/50 custody, but he doesn't really support them. He works as a part-time janitor.

As of the week he filed for divorce, he finally went back and got a job for 4 hours a day.

>> Well, all the text messages you've sent him over the years saying, "Please get a job." All that will come out in discovery. So, >> yeah, I hope so. >> Just work out on that process here.

Let's get let's get you to the house. Tell us your house situation. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, I have to buy him out because I was kind of guilted into putting his name on the house that I paid for. He

did not put a dollar towards but >> Yeah. Yeah. Which >> marital debt. >> Yeah. Totally. Well, and and I'll give you that freedom, too, that we would tell people when they're when you're married, right? Even if one spouse stays home, you both, >> right? If so, that was not that was not wrong of you. Okay. I I hear the frustration cuz you put >> It is frustrating. Yeah.

>> But that was not necessarily a wrong move. Yes. Okay. >> Okay. Yeah. But but to your point, he has that he has 50% of that asset, too.

>> Yeah. So, I we we just went to um the

this divorce hearing and I end I owe him about 48,800 and some dollars. >> Okay. >> Um the house is worth $255 out of as of

the last appraisal and um I owe 139 on

it or 138.

>> Okay. Um, so I have, so since this whole

thing started, I've been like stacking up. I've been I was hustling to like pay off a one of our personal loans cuz I knew that was going to come up and that would look good for me when this happened. So I paid off a $16,000 um personal loan we had as marital debt.

Um, I paid my lawyer over $10,000 and

set aside about $18,000. So, I have cash

and I don't know if it's better. Oh, also I have to pay him alimony. So, I have 15 and a half months of alimony, which is probably going to be about $1,000 a month once when he moves out, >> which he hasn't yet. >> So, should I save this cash as like

just those are my alimony payments or so

I don't have to worry about that when the time comes? >> No. How much are you How much are you making a month?

>> $6,000 plus. So, I'm a nurse practitioner. Um, I make I bring home 6,000 a month. And I do have a side Dave

would call it a um hobby where I do um like medical uh aesthetics, Botox, and fillers. And I that can bring bring home

depending on how much I do it like$1 to $6,000 a month. And I'm just doing it really part-time because I have a kid. >> Oh, good. Could you would you say like 2,000 would probably be average just for calculation purposes? >> Yeah. Yeah, it has been since I've started doing it about two years ago.

Good for you. Yeah, there's some cash in that. That's great. Good for you, Janelle. Okay, so um how much will the mortgage be that you're um if you keep the house? >> How much will the mortgage be without the without his 48,000? But just in general, how much is the payment?

>> Well, it depends. I mean, right now it's 136. >> Okay. >> Four a month.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And then if you add >> Well, I don't Should I Go ahead. Well, I was going to say if you add in his that 48,000 if you buy him out and just tack that onto your mortgage, as long as that payment doesn't get up to 2,000, which I don't think it I don't think it will.

out what that mortgage payment would be, because I don't want your mortgage payment to be more than 25% of your take-home pay, cuz at that point, Janelle, you probably can't afford the house. But honestly, yeah, I think I I think you might be okay. And especially if you kind of commit for a period of time >> to um doing the side hustle stuff that you can um because if that can bring in six grand a month extra, I'm like, "Holy crap." >> That was probably my best month. And it's um >> Well, even five grand, four grand.

I mean, do you know what I mean? The two grand that I just calculated as like a rough that that's more on the conservative side.

>> I have about 18,000 just set aside. Um,

but that's the thing. Should I Is it better to refinance the house or take out a heliloc? I know you're not going to say hilock personal loan for that or >> normally we would say we would say don't borrow to buy your partner out, but the

like when it comes to home ownership, 48 grand is is a small number.

>> Yeah. And and if that payment is still low enough, I would be comfortable with that cuz majority because >> I'll be honest, Janelle, I'd say 90% of the calls we get in the situation and the wife, the mom wants to keep the home, she can't afford it, you know, and so I most of the time we tell them that they have to end up selling it. But honestly, with the numbers you're giving me, I might but I want you to recalculate it. If you just go to um ramsolutions.com, we have a mortgage calculator.

You can kind of plug some of this stuff in. Um, but I get it. I don't want your payment more than 25% of your take-home pay because you're gonna have that. Then you're gonna have alimony for 15 months and some stuff is going to start stacking up and I don't want this house.

>> You're going to have to pay for child care, too, cuz >> Yes. So, I don't want this um Yeah. I don't want this house to be a burden, right? Like, it's not worth it.

It's worth having all the chaos you guys are going through to have peace and I don't want financial stress on you. Okay. One of the hardest things we have to tell folks in your situation on a regular basis is >> I want you to put on the table as hard as this would be, >> what if I sold this house, >> right?

doing that, but I just >> if you plan on doing that, I would really think twice about doing it now.

And because because listen, what you're trying to do for you and the kids is to minimize the how different your life is now.

>> And I would go ahead and just metabolize. It's 100% different. The life you had is over.

>> Okay. >> And if you think from that, it sounds stark, right? But if you sit, if you think, okay, the life I had is over.

What do I want this new one to look like? Would I go buy this house with these memories and share that bed

>> at this price? Probably not.

>> Okay. >> Or would you go rent for a year? It's going to be inconvenient. You're going to have to call somebody to help you move. It's going to be a huge pain in the butt. But I'm going to start.

>> And then the rent rent is going to be $2,400 minimum.

>> Yeah. It'll be expensive. There's no question. Yeah, there's no question.

>> That's where I I thought about that, too. >> Yeah. So, I think it's kind of making that call, Janelle, for you from that from that [music] perspective, from a mental perspective. Do you want to be walking back in those that front door every day, right? Like, is that how is that for you? and then do this calculation. So, those are the two big questions that that I want you to kind of discover on your own. And you can, but you're smart. And [music] gosh, I'm I'm so sorry of what you're going through.

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It is free. You can download it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's go to New Orleans and we have Brandy on the line. And hi Brandy.

>> Hi. >> Hello. Hello. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, I'm Colleen. I am an avid listener.

My husband and I are on board. We are paying off debt and we are super gazelle intense. >> Good for you guys. >> Excited. >> Good. >> I have a $96,000

tax debt left over from my late husband.

>> Oo. >> And Yeah. Yes. Yes.

And I went to a company in around June and

started a fresh start program.

>> What is that? Like >> a tax debt relief.

>> Exactly. Exactly. The name of the company is better tax relief.

>> Oh, there we go. [laughter] >> Right. How ironic. So, >> have you made Have you given them a bunch of money and you've made zero progress? >> I have. No, I haven't made zero progress yet. I've given them half of the money

that I needed. It was they were they were quoted me $15,000

and it was going to they were going to get me into a hardship program and it was called the Fresh Start program.

>> How much money do you make a year, Brandy?

>> I make about 65 and I just recently got

married in December. Okay. together. We have not combined our checking accounts because of this IRS debt.

>> Okay. How much does he make a year? >> I don't want them about 75.

>> Okay. You don't want them to see his income is what you're thinking.

>> Exactly. I don't want them to get a hold of his checking account. My name is not on his checking account for that reason.

We share our money. We pay the bills together. >> Sure. >> You know, but my name is not on his account because I don't want the IRS to go after his account. Can you get your money back from this these folks?

>> That I don't know. Okay.

>> How can we help you, Brandy? What do you What do you need from us?

>> Okay. So, I I I contacted one one of your people. Um y'all used to call them ELPs. I don't know what to call >> one of our Yeah. tax trusted pros. Yep.

Mhm. >> Right. Okay. So, I contacted one in Alabama. He was the nearest one. And he

was a he's just a CPA. And he's like he says, "I've heard of this place. They have good reviews on Google. They have a

lot of good reviews. My second question, my second part of my question was I he recommended another tax attorney that is

local to me in I live in Mississippi, just outside of New Orleans, about 20 minutes outside of New Orleans.

>> So, he recommended a tax professional, a

tax attorney. When I contacted them, they quoted me $5,600 to take care of

the situation, to handle it from start to finish. >> Wow. >> Okay. So, I went back to Better Tax

Relief and they knocked my fee down

and said for the balance of about

$5,000, they would finish the case and

that they do have tax attorneys on staff. >> Yeah. But you're you're you're still just talking about fees. Have they talked about what settlement they've negotiated on this $96,000?

>> They have not yet because >> I I I have all of my trust. I don't know this company. Never even heard of them. I have all of my trust >> in a tax attorney.

>> I would look at incentives. >> When you hire an attorney, that attorney works for you.

>> Okay? >> You are working for this other group right now, >> right? >> They're like the middle. You're basically paying the middleman, >> right? Yeah. >> And see, my husband's been saying, "I've had a bad feeling about this since the beginning because I was I was pressured and I was like, "Oh my god, they're going to come after me and make $6,000.

It's a lot of money." >> Right. Right. You were scared. You made a decision out of fear, right? Urgency.

And Yep. I I I don't know the process, but just personally sitting here just as a dumb guy off the street, I'm stunned that after more than what seven months of working with a company, you don't have a relief number yet. You don't have a negotiated settlement yet.

>> I don't I don't have any. >> That blows my mind.

>> Yes. >> And how much? You said you've given them half of the 15.

>> Half of the 15. So, and then they said they can do it for five, meaning the additional five, or they're going to pay you $2,000 back so that you have >> No, I would still have to pay another five to whichever one I choose to go with if I choose to stay with better tax. >> Okay. Because your original seven grand that you've paid them is just done.

>> I don't know. I I can see if I can recoup any of that. I That's Yeah, >> I don't know about that. >> Okay. But I'm looking at $5,000 more to

get an answer.

But I think that and and healing, you two just now just sold me. I'm going to go with the attorney's office.

>> But I I would call this company and I want a full accounting of what you have done for me for my $7500 I've given you

over the last seven months.

>> I want every phone call logged. I want every message. I want every negotiated settlement you've offered. I want to know what you've done for the last seven months. And if you can't provide that, I want my money back. Because I think what they're doing is just [clears throat] trashing your credit.

>> My credit's trashed.

>> I think about that.

>> Yeah. And they're and then you don't have what I would see as you don't have to do any moral slipperiness with, well, let's don't do his money and let's get somebody who can get in with the IRS, get a negotiated settlement, >> get a dollar amount, >> and you'll probably get it put on a payment plan. >> You can put on a payment plan, get it paid off ASAP. really hoping for innocent spouse, but this company hasn't said that. And the attorney's office is like, "We could go for innocent spouse.

I don't see why you wouldn't get it." >> Right. See this? Okay. And Brandy, I mean, honestly, it's like working with an attorney. If you think about it, they've gone to school for this. This is what they do day in and day out. They work for you. This this relief company is like a who knows who opened it up.

>> They make so much money. It it reminds me not of a payday loan by any means, but it's all in that same bucket. These debt relief companies, they're a cash grab. They grab people in desperation in desperate moments.

I mean, honestly, I hate s I mean, exactly you. I'm like, yes. You're freaking out. You're like, my wages are going to be garnished.

The IRS is after me. Help me. And then >> help debt relief companies right [laughter] there with their sign.

They kept your money. >> And you know what? Yeah. Oh my god.

That's right. So, I think it's just stupid tax that you just knock it up to if they don't pay you back the 7,000.

>> A great attorney is worth every single penny you pay because they they >> it's like they take up a sword and a shield on your behalf and they say game on and that's what that's that's what you hire them for. >> Yeah. And even the term they just threw out to you, right? Like >> the innocent spouse. Yeah. There you go.

>> I can't believe it. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm I'm trying not to get angry on the phone for innocent spouse. I applied for innocent spouse, but then the IRS shut down. the government shut down and never hurt anything, >> right? But then having an attorney on your side, right, that >> right >> goes forward and tries again and [clears throat] all of it is worth every penny. >> Thank y'all. Just thank y'all so much.

We are doing so good and y'all just >> so proud of you, Brandy. How much have you guys I know this is the big debt you're looking at. How much have you guys paid off? [snorts] >> We had 140,000 and we're down to 72,000

since um January of last year.

>> Oh my gosh. So, we paid off about 70,000 in a year. >> We claim to be debtree except for the house by the end of this year with the exception of the IRS. We'll have that settled hopefully.

>> Okay. But settlement doesn't mean it goes away. Settlement means they're going to come up with a number. Right.

>> Right. Right. Well, I thought that the 15,000 was my settlement and that was going to be paid off this year, too. I'm learning now that that was just their fee.

>> Wow. >> Mhm. Yeah. They swindled dreams. Yep.

>> So that's a $7,000 deep tax.

>> That is like having sat back.

>> Having sat with widows

like [music] that makes me so enraged on your behalf.

>> That someone would take somebody in that moment of pain. They just lost their ride or die. And then to find out there was 100 grand they didn't know about.

And then to come in and be like, "Oh, we got you. Give me $15,000.

I'll call you back in >> 7 months, 8 months." That's so enraging to me.

Golly.

[music]

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>> All right, today's question comes from Caitlyn in New York. Caitlyn writes, "My

fiance and I recently moved into a house together. I am not on the mortgage, but I live here, and he pays the bills. His dad helped him buy the house, and my fiance pays his dad instead of a

mortgage lender. On top of that, my fiance uses a credit card that's also paid for by his dad." Oh jeez. His dad is a big fan of yours

and a very smart businessman.

>> Sounds like a raving fan. [laughter] loves us, but this is one thing he does opposite of what you advise. Um, when I bring up getting rid of the credit card or buying a house the right way, he gets defensive and upset. I don't know who if that's your father and law soon to be or your your fiance. What should be my first step to fix this problem?

Um, I Rachel, I think this is as simple as you telling your fiance that

if we're going to get married, it's going to be our marriage, not I'm not marrying your dad, too. Right? Like, we

have to put some boundaries in place right now. You're getting a very clear picture of what your future may look like if you go through with this, which is marrying a little boy in a grown-up

man's body who dad still pays his bills.

His dad still tells him what to do. His dad still the shadow of his father leans over your house.

>> And if this is my sister, if this is my daughter, if this is my friend, I would say I I would draw some real firm boundaries. >> Yes. Yeah. Because if you can't handle it during engagement, he's definitely not going to handle it well. >> Yeah. Wait till you have wait till you have a kid. >> Yes. So, >> yeah. Wait till you get a job in another state and daddy says you can't move.

>> And even if it was a debit card and his dad's paying, you know, funding his checking account also. So, like that's the issue, the dad. And then also the fact that debt is being inner, you know, woven through this entire picture. And if you're not okay with that, you guys have two separate values when it comes to money, which is a really big deal.

I always I I feel like a shallow person when I'm always like, "Oh my gosh, money can ruin the relationship." Because it feels like, "No, that shouldn't love should conquer all." But the truth is, when like rubber meets the road and you guys day in and day out are dealing with your life, this is one of the biggest the biggest issues in marriage that can cause so much conflict if you're not on the same page. So, can it be done? It can, but it's just an exhausting uphill battle that sometimes it's like it you just fight and fight and fight all day long about it.

>> And and in this situation, what churns my stomach is if you go to a a mortgage lender to get a a loan for a home, there

is regulatory bodies that monitor that.

There's agreements, there's contracts.

>> Yes, >> those things guide your relationship.

>> Yes. >> In this situation, your future father-in-law owns y'all. Mhm.

>> He tells y'all what you're going to do, when you're going to do because he is your bank, he is your lender, and I'm not having that because there's no regulations to that relationship other than what he feels that day.

>> Yeah. Mixing family money. No.

>> And also, can I I'll just say this on behalf of the dad in this situation. I have a 15-year-old. You know what? I'm going to tell the story. Uh Josephine and I, my daughter, she's 10. We went on on a date the other day. >> Yeah. >> And after we got done eating, she said, "Dad, there's this cool dress shop." She didn't know this. It's the dress shop.

It's anthropology. Back in the old school, back OG anthropology, like I used to get my wife gift cards when we had nothing. I would save up and save up and save up and that would be like a Christmas present for her cuz I think their clothes are rad, right?

>> Um or they were back in the day. I don't I don't pay attention. And we went in there and there was a dress that was obnoxiously expensive and she she lit up

and she goes, "Can I try this on?" And I was like, "You can try that on." And I was 100% going to buy it. it. [laughter] I mean, I was like, I'm buying that for sure. I'm totally buying that. Like, there's no reason financially she can't wear it. She has a uniform at her school. I'm buying my daughter that dress. And of course, it was like 17 sizes too big. >> I was going to say little joke. Yeah.

>> I get the sentiment as a parent of

wanting to make sure I'm clearing the deck. I'm clearing the path for my kids as much as possible. I don't want them to struggle. I don't want them to have the same heartache I had. I I never we

my my dad wouldn't have had the money because he was a policeman. Like he wouldn't have the money to buy me something even if he wanted to. And I get the impulse to want to do that. We as parents have to understand that that impulse >> when taken too far hurts our kids. It's

walking into the weight room taking all the weight off the bar and then wondering why they're not getting stronger. >> Yes. Or >> Well, that's what I was going to ask you. >> Let me do the lifts for you. >> Because I read all this and and sometimes I blame the parent as much in the situation as the son.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So to to this dad, you know, I mean, how how hard is it or how often do you see married couples and it's it is like an entanglement of the son or daughter continues to listen to the parents over the spouse? Is that pretty common?

>> Super super common. And not usually to this degree where they're your lender and they're financing your life, but even on things as strange as like someone's been married 20 years and we have to go to Thanksgiving and do it this way because my mom said that, right? And so in a weird way, your mother-in-law is still running your life, right? So that happens all over the place.

Um we have probably have mutual friends that like still have been married, they have three kids, and they still hide the wine when you know when mom comes over. You can't. And so there comes a point when you have to say, I'm an adult.

>> Then I have to it it is dad holds the blame here. But now that this guy said, "I want you to marry me." He has to stand up, take responsibility, and look at his father and say, >> "Thank you for bringing me here. I have to develop the skills and muscle and grit and resilience and responsibility to take it from here." >> Y >> and if his dad throws a temper tantrum, then he's going to have a hard grown-up decision to make. Um, but that's that's the that's the call of a of a new husband.

>> Yeah. And weirdly, if I'm her and he does that and even if the dad throws the tent tent, wait, >> temper tantrum. >> Temper tantrum. Why can't I say that word?

>> There there's something about if the if the fiance continues to push through though and continues to choose her, that shows >> even bigger of who he is, right?

Yes. >> And it all. But um >> when you ask somebody, will you marry me? They go to number one on your list.

Yep. >> Above your parents, above above everything, that person anchoring into that person becomes priority. >> Yep. Okay, we got about two minutes. John, what would you say from a relational standpoint? We're talking about like parent child relationship sort of. I mean, adult child, but child, but when it comes to marriage, when we're talking about them as a couple, what do you see on your show and other places? probably like one or two of the biggest issues that continue to like drive a wedge financially in a marriage.

>> I mean the biggest one number one is people have my money and your money.

>> Yes. >> So you're 40,000, this is my 60,000, right? Like it's a billion dollars, right? >> But they they they try to they they're

driving two cars down the highway right next to each other trying to pretend that they're in the same car and they're they're not, right? So that's the first one. The second one, um, without a doubt, is financial infidelity, secrets.

I bought this and didn't tell him I'm going to buy this. Don't you tell your dad >> everything from a cup of coffee all the way to >> the new car, the new guitar or like we took a call earlier about the I'm I'm trying to day trade with borrowed money and I got myself. So, it's secrets. It's lies.

It's deception. >> Yep. Of continuing to hide. And what's so interesting too about that dynamic because I've heard people say that it's like, "Oh, just Yeah.

Don't Yeah. put the put the shopping bags away before dad gets home so that he doesn't see it because that means dad isn't looking at the bank statement or the credit card statement. >> That's the other side of it, right? >> That's wild to me.

Whenever people say that, I'm always like, but that's so unless they have a hidden account, right? Which is one thing, but the whole shopping because I mean, this is it's like a joke I feel like among women is like, okay, if you go to Target, hide the Target bags kind of thing. Um, which whenever I hear that, I'm always like, yes, but doesn't that show up? And isn't someone looking at the checking account, right?

And if just one person is, I give that a red flag of like you both need to be involved in seeing what's going on. It's one reason I do love every dollar with all the transactions that come in because Winston and I >> because it pops up on on each other's phone. >> And sometimes it comes up a weird name. I did this yesterday.

I was and I screenshot it and I text like what is this? They go that's insurance. And I was like, "Oh, shoot.

I wasn't sure what that was." Um, but it just keeps you in this rhythm and on the same page. So married couples out there, there are so many things with money that can drive a wedge and it can be one of the reasons of divorce in America today.

One of the top reasons, but it doesn't have to take your marriage, right? There [music] are things you can do. You can work together, be on the same team, do a budget together, have a plan together, have goals together, [music] and be in one car, like what John was saying, versus driving in two cars down the street. Be a team.

>> [snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds [music] Credit Union studio.

I am Rachel Cruz hosting today with Dr.

John Deloney. You can give us a call at 88825-5225.

We are taking your questions about life and money. All right, let's go to Salt Lake City and we have Austin on the line. Hi Austin.

>> Hey Rachel. Hey John. How's it going?

>> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today? >> Hey, so I got married uh just this last summer and just enjoying married life and we've combined our lives, combined our finances. Um, but I'm kind of having

a hard time. Um, I feel like my wife isn't super involved with the finances.

Uh, I feel like it's kind of all on me, which is fine. I feel like we're in a good, healthy, responsible spot. I'm just wondering if I should strive harder to get her more involved. Uh, slash how could I do that? And then I also kind of have a fear that if something were to ever happen to me, she would be in a good spot, but not really know what to do with as far as finances go.

>> So, I'll answer this question backwards.

Um, I have sat with multiple wives

who have said the words, "I don't know what to do." >> Uhhuh. >> I don't know where the money is. I don't know where the accounts are. I don't know who holds any of our anything. And so your fear on that I' I've experienced that secondhand sitting with somebody.

So your fear is a 100% right. But I would say that's not the chief reason why I would want your wife involved.

But I want to ask you a question first. Is that cool?

>> Sure. >> Is she not involved because all you do is throw spreadsheets around and talk about this and like you're kind of annoying to be around or and I'm saying that laughingly by the way. Or does she just like >> not care? >> Not care.

>> Uh laughingly probably the first one, but also the second one. Okay.

>> I feel like I am that way. Um but also I feel like she just doesn't care. Well, and sometimes people don't care because they really just I just don't care. Like my mom didn't do it. My grandma didn't do it. So, I guess I'm not going to do it. And then sometimes people just take

their stuff and they go home cuz they realize my voice doesn't count here at this table. I don't get a vote. I don't know how you're using all these Excel formulas and clawed and enthropic. So, I'm just going to whatever. Right. And so I think for you as a new husband establishing in your relationship like telling her, I'm sorry. I set this up

this way, your voice matters here. I want you at the table here and we're going to co-ake decisions. And one of you is going to like in my in my marriage, my wife pushes the buttons. I don't send the bills to the electric company or whatever, but we talk about it, right? So one of y'all's going to do the the nuts and bolts of it, but y'all

being together is critical, man.

>> Yeah. So the the opposites attract thing is real Austin. She probably will never be someone that's like so excited to see her Excel sheets. Like that's just not going to probably be her.

>> And I can say that because that's me. I I am not that's not me. Winston is that he loves all the details and does all this like projecting out on things and I'm like that's great. >> Um but I'm not like super excited about it.

But we sit down every month and now I mean it's been 17 years. So now it's like you know quick 17 16 I'm jumping ahead but yeah 16 years. Uh but I mean it's quick conversations but we do a budget. We have every dollar transactions come in.

one that presses the buttons in our life of like yeah here I'm going to pay these bills and everything. Um but I'm still involved. And so I think that's the balance is you have to understand opposites attract. And what she brings to the table Austin's going to be really good for you. Like you may need to loosen up a little bit too, right? So she there she's a gift to you in that.

But then what she needs to understand is that she's an adult. She's a grown woman. She's married, which means you have to do adult things. Even though you don't like it, even though it's not your strength and it's not exciting to you, you have to do adult things. And adult things is learning how to manage a household financially. And again, she

may not be pumped about it, but that is part of growing up. And so for you guys to sit down together and look at the

numbers and do a budget together, have her change two or three things on the

budget, like whether it's amounts or she needs to add a category, like you do need her involved and and then you guys can kind of start working out of that.

So that's what I would say. you probably need to like chill a little bit with her and not be so detailed. But then also,

she on her end, she has to pull her weight to say, "Yeah, I'm I may not want to do this, but I need to because I'm an adult and we have to do things we don't always like." >> Does that make sense? >> Okay. Yeah, that's helpful. >> Yeah. How How old are you guys?

>> Uh oh, she probably wouldn't like me saying this. I'm 31 and she's in her early 30s.

She wouldn't like you saying I thought she were going to say she's like 18 and you're >> I thought you were going to say she's 51. [laughter] >> She wouldn't like you saying her age. >> A little bit older than me. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, I do. I There's something magic um especially in a new relationship with somebody saying, "You know what? I have screwed this up out of the gate and I'm sorry.

I really want your voice at the table here and I can be really annoying with my spreadsheets. I'm going to commit to not doing that." Or and vice versa. Hey, I've been really annoying with just being like whatever. Um, I'm never going to be in a spreadsheet, but I want to be a part of the money conver like wherever you fall on that of of saying I have set this dynamic up in a bad way and I want to be a part of changing it.

So, good move on your part, brother. >> Awesome, Austin. Thanks. All right, let's go to Debbie in Dayton, Ohio.

Hi, Debbie.

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

When my husband retired from his first job, he received a pension and we took the pension and purchased a 10-year

deferred annuity.

>> Okay. >> Um we realized how um bad this decision

was later and we're wondering now if we

should take the 10% surrender charge hit

and just remove our principal and invest it with our other retirement money, hopefully making that back.

>> Yes. I mean, that's usually it. How much is in there?

>> Um, right now there's 366,000.

>> Oh my >> Oh, yes. >> Gosh. >> Yes. Cuz it would clear your debt, right? >> Uh, we don't have any. >> Oh, even better. >> Oh my gosh. Okay. Um, >> we just spent a little bit on our mortgage. >> Yeah. When um Okay. When did he when did

he get this?

>> Uh, we purchased it in 2023.

>> Okay. So, it's fairly new. >> 88,000. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And we realize you you can with no surrender charge take 10% a year, but that's just a slow >> Well, I was gonna say that. Yeah. And it probably hasn't earned it a lot because you may have to pay on the gains of it, too. But I don't think there's not going to be a lot because it's so new.

>> Um >> the interest it supposedly earns versus the fees they're charging us. The fees are more than the entry. >> Yes. >> That's the thing about annuities that are so tough is the fees are so high and the person that's selling them gets a pretty good gets a pretty good deal.

Yeah, Debbie, I would. You're gonna have to freaking plug your nose when you do it, though. That's gonna it's gonna it's gonna hurt. But in the long run, putting that in an investment somewhere, even an index fund or something. Oh my gosh. Um

that's going to grow. How How old are you guys?

>> I'm 60 59.

>> Okay. Okay. So, you guys are at that at that point >> because >> Well, we have we have other retirement investment. We were about 1.2 million without this money. Okay. Is it a fixed or >> variable mixture?

This is flexible premium. Um

>> if that's Yeah, >> I don't know if that answers your question, but >> Okay. Um >> do you have a Smart Ver Pro?

>> No, but we do have a financial advisor that we've been working with.

>> Not the one that sold you this, is it?

>> No. >> Okay. [laughter] >> Yeah. I would talk to them and run the numbers because you guys are at retirement age and seeing, you know, what the cuz [music] what you would pay in penalties versus if you just slowly took this out >> um over time because you're at that age.

I I would run the numbers, but man, more than likely just for your kids' sake, [music] from a from a legacy perspective, if you were to leave your kids something, I think I'd rather it be in an account that's that's [music] earning more interest than what you guys are doing.

>> [music]

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[music]

If you have kicked debt to the curb and

curb curve curb I've always said curb.

>> What do you think it is? Kick to the curb. [music] Kick to the curve.

>> It's not the curve. It's the curve.

That's what my sheet says. So, as I was reading it, I was like, I don't know if >> kick to the curve. >> That's what it [laughter] says. I It's like Ron Burgundy and reading my sheet.

Good gosh. >> Oh my gosh. Okay, listen. If you are debtree and you have a fully funded emergency fund, do you know where you need to be? Not this March, but March of 2027. >> Not in the curve, cuz you've kicked it.

[laughter] You kicked that curve >> on the live like no one else cruise.

That's right, people. We are back. We did this last year and it was so fun. It was a boat full of people that are doing the Ramsay plan and who are debtfree and doing all the things we are and we loved it. It was such a great time. So, it's Dave Ramsey, all the Ramsay personalities. We're all going to be there on March 14th through the 21st,

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And I think it's I saw the numbers uh two days ago. I think it's right at 50% sold. So half the boat. >> All those people kicking their debt to the curve. >> To the curve. I was like I don't know if that's right. [gasps] All right, let's go to Salt [laughter] Lake City and we have Grace who is on the line. Hi, Grace. >> Hi guys. How are you guys today?

>> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, I'm going to try to make this like not long. It's really hard with the situation, but basically me and my partner, we're both still technically married. He has two kids. Mom is gone.

We're raising the two kids with us two.

We decided to combine our finances last summer. and we're in $91,000 of debt

accumulated. >> Okay. >> And our monthly income is like 5,700

after taxes and we just don't know what to do. And we have other expenses too.

Last week we found out I was pregnant and then um we >> Did you say you're Grace? I'm so sorry. Did you say you're married to him?

>> We are both married to different people.

Okay.

>> So, we live together and we've combined our finances. >> Are you guys both in the middle of divorces?

>> Yeah. So, mine's finished in February.

So, mine's done almost. His we haven't even started because of the custody and all that. You know, >> I would if you were my sister, if you were my daughter, if you were my close friend, I would tell you do not combine your finances to that mess until it is cleared.

>> Okay? Please, please, please don't >> because it can get so >> separate when like our like our rent,

all these things are already accumulated. >> Venmo each other >> if you need to. But don't don't don't put your names on each other's stuff.

Don't be combining accounts. Don't be doing any of that.

>> Oh, okay. I see. Yeah. I don't think we've really done that. We have separate accounts and everything like that, but we like I'll pay his bills, he'll pay my

bills. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, >> no. >> Like, y'all are college roommates right now.

>> Cuz here's the deal, Grace. He hasn't even gone through a divorce. When they go through and do all the mediation and they do, you know, they they they take all the assets and all of it. If you're paying on his on his debt, like you're you're, you know, in that situation. I don't know. It gets all it gets all muddled so quickly.

>> Yeah. I guess the problem is is that we both don't have any assets besides our cars with car payments. We don't own houses. They there's no money in the banks for either of us. It's like we are

living week to week. Like we live off his paycheck one week, we live off my paycheck one week. That's how we're living our life. >> Okay. He's on the phone. So I just want to talk to you. Is that cool?

>> He's not on the phone. No, >> I'm saying like I I right now I want you to focus on what you can control. Okay.

Okay. >> How much money do you make?

>> I make So, what makes it complicated, too, is I'm on commissionbased salary.

So, I make my baseline is about $2,500 a

month and then more like 24 cuz I get paid

like 1,200 bi-weekly.

And then sometimes I take in $700 in a

bonus in a month and then sometimes it's three grand, sometimes it's four grand, sometimes it's 2500 or if I don't make goal I don't like last month I didn't get a bonus at all.

>> Okay. So that feels like you are very economically insecure, >> right? >> What was your W2 last year or what did you report on your taxes last year?

>> 48,000. >> Okay. >> Okay. So in a situation like this, Grace, what I would do is we call it the

the hills and valleys funds fund if you

will. >> So I would be so diligent and again this

gets really complicated because you guys are sharing bills and all of it. Um >> and now you're sharing a human, right?

>> Okay. >> So as much as you can to go through and

draw a line and say, "Okay, here's what I would owe." Right? Whatever the utility is, I owe half. Like, if you can function like roommates financially, I think that's gonna be really important because I want you to get your money in order. So, what John was getting at is, hey, Grace, how much do you make? How much do you make? And you have to learn to live on your salary and your

commission, right? And so, how do we create a budget for you, Grace? Not for him, for you. And so what that means is,

yeah, when you have a great month, that means you're probably going to put, you know, a thousand bucks or so into this other account. So that when you have a month that's just $2,500 and you don't earn a commission, you can pull some money out to pay your part of the bills.

So it needs to have a really really um

black and white situation financially with him. Okay, that's that's the cleanest way to do it. And then when all when he gets through all of his divorce stuff and you guys I mean I'm assuming you guys get married eventually.

>> Yeah, that's the goal. Like I guess where it's complicated is that like this $5,000 retainer is what's holding us up

because like the way that we cuz I've

been listening to you guys on the show and basically we were you know thinking we should combine everything and do everything like that. >> Not until you're married. >> We want to be married. We want if we could be married, we would have already gone to the courthouse.

>> But you're I hear you. But it does it's not an emotional it's a it's a legal issue, right? So like >> it's not Oh gosh, we want to be married so we should combine finances. No, no, no.

You're not legally married. You have no protection. So So no, we're not combining finances. And is his the $5,000 retainer that he needs to figure out?

>> Right.

mom. Like it's a whole >> I know. But Grace, listen to me. And I know you don't want to hear this. We're just telling you cuz we do this. We do we take these calls all day every day.

>> Mhm. >> The chances of you working extra shifts, paying $4,000 of this $5,000 retainer, you paying the bills while he goes through his divorce and then suddenly they reconcile

or suddenly he doesn't love you anymore

or suddenly whatever. And the reason I know that you have a psychology for that is because it's happened to you in your marriage.

What you'll find yourself with is a brand new baby and you'll have nothing.

>> Yeah. >> And so I I I I care about the woman on the phone that I'm talking to. I care about him, too, but I'm not talking to him. >> He needs to come up with his money for his divorce.

>> You And by the way, you don't have enough money to even be helping with that. >> You I I feel like there's two people who are F math students trying to work

together to get an A on an exam.

Yes. >> Right. And so I want you to work on your math skills.

>> And it may be I got to get a different job. It may be I've got to figure out some new things. But I want you to start getting concrete under your feet because you're your life right now is a is a seessaw. And that's exhausting,

>> right?

>> And he can play on the seesaw all day long, but I want you to stand on the sidewalk on firm >> concrete. And this is going to be hard because this is not only a mathematical financial issue. It's a relational issue. big time when you like like if you do this I will be surprised like it would be easier to get off the phone and just keep doing what you've been doing and then you look up in 2 years and sadly a reality hits that's not what [music] not the picture you painted or you do what we say what we recommend I mean honestly and and you do this and then he goes through all of his stuff and my prayer is that sure at the end of all of it you guys are still in love you have a baby and then you've had a you have a strong financial foundation under you he does as Well, you guys get married, you combine it all, [music] and then you you go from there.

And you're actually building on something strong, not something that is so shaky like it is now. But the the way to do it, the smart way to build is [music] separately. Financially, you need to be separate.

have to think about it that way.

[music]

[music]

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>> [music] >> Well, here in Nashville, Tennessee, we do the show live every day from 1 to 4

here on the glass. We have always a wonderful audience that that comes out.

And over to the side, we have the

debtfree stage. And whenever we see someone on it, we know what it is. And so, we have we have Matthew and Bri from

Nashville, Tennessee. Welcome you guys.

Thank you. Happy to be here. We're very excited to be here. >> Oh my gosh. Okay. So, you're obviously on the stage. >> You guys are debtree. That's correct.

>> How much debt did you pay off?

>> 110,000. >> Oh my gosh. What did that consist of?

>> Um, two car notes, um, a little bit of student loans, and some personal loans.

>> Oh my gosh. All personal debt. All All consumer debt. >> Yeah, consumer debt. We didn't have any uh credit card debt, thankfully, but um we just uh um decided to get after it and just uh paid it off. And >> I love it. How long did it take you? Uh about 10 months. >> Oh my gosh. How were you guys making during that time? >> Um roughly about about 115 a year, give

or take. Um I work in healthcare and so it can kind of fluctuate um just on the overtime.

>> Um I'm a CT tech and so um we decided

last year to um go on an adventure and

um instead of travel nursing, think of travel CT. And so um we rented out our

house um originally in Las Vegas. That's where I'm from. >> And I'm from North Carolina. Okay.

>> So, moved to Las Vegas, >> which is where we met. >> Yep. We got married and then we wanted to downsize everything and then we did tiny house living. >> Oh, yeah.

It was pretty It was pretty gnarly. >> Oh my gosh. How long have y'all been married? >> Uh, three and a half years.

>> Yeah. Okay. Okay. >> So, um, but literally last year, it was about a year ago today, we just looked at each other and we're like, we we make too much money to be this darn broke.

um both of us had always talked about moving to Nashville. She went to college in East Tennessee. Okay. >> And so um and I worked for a healthcare

corporation that's pretty big out here and then I got the job for Vanderbilt.

But um just uh we feel really really blessed and really >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. a lot of prayer was over this and uh so we're excited to be here in Tennessee after a lot of years of uh

praying and figuring out like where God was calling us to go. So amazing. And so here we did sell our house. Um so that was a big uh a big thing that just kind of just >> helped it. Okay. I was going to ask cuz you guys basically you basically paid off the amount of debt you make in a year. So I was like so something must have happened. Yes. So, we paid off roughly about 20 grand um during the

time of the whole travel thing because we've been out here since mid July and so is when we made the move out. But we we knew that we didn't want to go into any more debt with that move cuz it was >> halfway across the country and so it was really kind of um uh really kind of an experience just uh eating, you know, homemade pizza and just kind of, you know, >> beautiful. We just went on so many walks and like the mountains and the nature and just like the stillness and that's really yeah what we just soaked in.

So >> that's amazing you guys. >> So whose idea was it?

Oh yeah. And so I think it was like a 13week course back then. >> Oh yes. I was up to you. That's right.

>> When I was like 19 and um I was like oh my gosh I have to start investing. I have to start doing all this type of stuff. [laughter] And so, um, I was able to go to college debtree. Um, just, you

know, work working multiple jobs. Um, and then we got married kind of and got

married kind of. [laughter] Sorry. >> We did. >> We got legally married first. And then we had our second that makes sense.

Okay. >> Um, and so we kind of lived the I I hate to say this, but like the Daveish. We kind of just fell into that monotony.

Um, and then like I said last year we

really looked at each other and like this is ridiculous. >> I didn't really know much about um Dave Ramsey. >> Yeah. [laughter] Or anything.

And so he introduced me to it and what the baby steps were and just like getting after it. And I love traveling. And so whenever I was looking at different jobs and traveling jobs and saw that his job could travel um I was like, "Oh, the best of both worlds." And so yeah, that's kind of how we went with that route. >> Yeah.

And so and we knew we wanted to get out here eventually, but we knew that we didn't want to go into any more debt >> for that. Yes. >> If that, you know, >> totally. So you stopped that.

So you were like, "No more debt." So we got to save. We got to be thinking about this move, >> right? Exactly. >> In a wise way while still thinking about all this other debt you have.

So we want to start paying it off. >> Exactly. And so we just, you know, >> downsized everything we could fit into our Subaru. And then we had a trailer um that we also had some stuff on it.

Yeah. And then when we got here about 7 months ago to Tennessee, then we got some stuff. Um, and we're in an apartment right now. And so, yeah, we're excited for you. The >> future. Yeah. And so we >> What an adventure. >> It's been crazy. It's been so much change, but we're just excited now to like settle down, hopefully have kids, and really Yeah. Just see what's next.

>> How does it feel being debtree?

>> It feels really good. >> Relief. like it's just like a like a brick has been taken off off our chest because we knew that like it was coming, you know, but um it's just such a relief and we're never going back. >> Yeah. No, definitely not.

>> So, so I want to throw this example out.

You guys are in Nashville right now.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. We're around the Gulch area >> and y'all went through this wild storm last week. >> Yes. Yeah. [laughter] >> And my my wife and I were talking um

like imagine being in that moment and we have to get out of here. We need to go get a hotel or something. >> Mhm. >> And we can't.

>> Yeah. >> And y'all are debtree. Y'all go through this first big storm and what y'all got to do is what y'all wanted to do.

>> Yeah. >> Because you've worked for this all this time, sold everything, did it. But we put ourselves in a position to not if but when life happens.

>> Yes. We get to decide what happens next.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. It's just um you know I've heard both of you say you know it's a it's not an emergency. It's just an inconvenience and it's it's kind of decided it's like weather or you got to travel for a family thing like whatever it is you're like okay we can do this like we're good.

>> Definitely experienced that since we moved here cuz things happen. Car crashes all these random things and or like a hospital bill from like way back when two years ago shows up and you're like what and then you just pay it off and you're like whoa. Like that was a really cool feeling and we just know that it was all um through God and him um helping us. >> Yeah.

The whole time. >> So it was kind of we took care of um you know we were we were obviously um chopping away at that tree on baby step two but then we um with the sale of the house we just took care of baby step three as well and so we're just >> How much did y'all get for the house when you sold?

was it was a big chunk of change.

And so we were able to put a little bit away and um now it's just kind of sit sitting in an account and um we want to um buy a home out here hopefully. But but we're in no rush and we get to kind of just take a breather and just kind of just Nothing is urgent. Nothing is

>> there's some great restaurants in the Gulf and y'all can just go when you want. Exactly. It's nice a little bit.

>> So what would you say besides selling a really nice house? What would you say the key of getting out of debt is? What was one of the things that was so helpful?

>> So and I'm the free spirit and she's the definitely budget-minded. Now I am, but I used to be the free spirit. So we've we've uh kind of >> Yes. I'm kind of like you. I'm such a free spirit, but I'm the one that tracks all the transactions and every dollar.

>> Now I am. And that's what my mom always did just in the household and just like now just being married a little bit.

It's not been that long, but just seeing like um parent roles and like what they did and like how to be a wife and what I'm supposed to be, you know, in charge of. And so I'm just trying to Yeah.

>> No, it's great. >> All that. It's great. Well, you guys are awesome and and and how you are, you know, personality wise, you lean into that, how you create, which is amazing.

And I see that in you guys. You you create such a great team, >> which is so fun. And just the diligence and the adventure, which I love.

[laughter] That's a part of your story.

>> Bri, I've never heard somebody say that, but every couple has to pick their sacrifice. Yes. And for y'all, it's selling the house. For y'all, it was we're going to travel or we're not going to travel. For me and my wife, might be something different, but every couple has to get together and choose their sacrifices. I love that. >> That's awesome. All right, you guys ready? >> I think we're ready. We're going to count down. >> Okay, so we have Matthew and Bri from Colorado. Now live in Nashville, Tennessee. They've paid off $110,000

of debt. That's cars, student loans, and personal loans in 10 months, making $115,000 of income with the sale of a house. All right, you guys, count it down. Let's hear it. Debtree, 2, we're debtree.

Amazing. [applause and music]

Oh my gosh. It's a joy. It's how it's done, people. That is how it's done, >> dude. They're smiling and dancing.

[music]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Our [music] scripture of the day comes from Jeremiah 29:11. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord.

Plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you hope and a future. Jim Collins said, "It is better

to understand who you are than where you are going, for where you are going will almost surely change." H >> I love that quote. >> That's good. Do you think we change though? Who you are? >> Yes. >> So both both hands, right, Jim?

Understand who you are

>> more than where you're going because where you're going is going to change, but also who you are may change, too.

>> You need to kick that to the curve. >> I don't know what >> that attitude.

>> No, I'm totally kidding. You said we could change, too. I don't know. [gasps] I like it all.

I kind of like I kind of these quotes are always great. We've done them for the entire, you know, beginning of the show. They there's always a scripture and always a quote, but sometimes these quotes, I like to kind of pick them apart. See what I would what I [laughter] would say differently.

[gasps] All right. Not that I would correct Jim Collins. I mean, sorry, Jim. No, [laughter] >> much wiser than me.

I'm going to stick with your quote, Jim. All right. Let's go to April in St. Louis.

>> Hi. How are you? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today? >> Good. So, I um I'm in a great situation.

I've paid off all my debt and I'm investing. However, I want to know how

you define the line of being generous without becoming the family bailout.

>> Oh, good question. What's the situation?

Why would you be the family bailout?

Like, what's the family what's the family need bailing out of?

>> Uh, a lot of things, actually. So, I have a sister who's on the brink of bankruptcy and she's uh she's got two

kids. I've been helping her with car situations. So, I bought her a car

actually, ironically, in April and it just took a it just the engine just went on that. So, I'm giving her my car and buying myself a new car.

>> And then my my parents did not plan for

their retirement. they are living on social security and drowning because they've also taken on more debt that they can actually pay. So my dad does Door Dash, but um they they are drowning

and they can't really pay their bills, so they come to me quite often to help out.

>> Gosh. Okay. So your situation, you obviously have done well. What's your net worth?

Uh right now uh well I guess I'm married

now so our net worth is is just about

three million. >> Okay. And you guys are debt I mean debtree everything. Yeah. You guys are doing great. >> Completely debtree.

>> Oh go ahead.

>> I I went through my own like journey of

realizing how much I was paying to interest. I had credit cards and auto loans and student debt.

>> And I took on second jobs to get myself to a position between 25 and 32 of being

debtree and then starting to to invest.

And then my husband, he had a really great example. Um, so he bought a home when he was 25 and was able to pay that off quickly. >> Oh wow. Yeah. You guys were just wise for situation, but my >> fortunate you worked for it. You made smart decisions, too, so give yourself that credit. Yeah. >> Thank you. Yep.

So I I like to think of generosity as a as a it's like an approach, right? It's like a it's like a spirit of >> it's and so >> everybody has to decide what that means for themselves. Some people's generosity, they look at it like an ROI.

I want to I want to give to something. I want to give to things that I want to see multiply.

Some people like to give and just because I want to be a part of what you're doing. Some people want to give because >> I don't like it, but it's the right thing. >> I I have deemed it to be the right thing. >> Right. Right. >> But none of that comes from a spirit of guilt.

>> And none of it and here's the other thing. None of it comes from a spirit of

somebody's going to be worse off because I kept doing this because then my guilt ends up putting somebody in a worse position.

It's never the guilt of them being in a bad position, but it's the guilt of them not learning from their mistakes is is the problem that I grapple with.

>> Yeah. The challenge is they're not interested in learning right now.

>> Correct. >> Right. And so I think it's having that kind of conversation. Um and I it sounds to me in my head there would be a difference between my parents situation and my sister. Right.

Mhm. >> But but again, everybody's different >> of like meaning of just like taking care of like you >> Yeah. Like I mean it's it's cool to say like they didn't plan so they're on their own, but also I'm not going to let my parents be homeless, right?

Especially if I'm in a position where >> I I can help out. And so, but I I I might sit down and say, "Hey, if you take on any more debt, I can't contribute to this,

>> right?" >> Yeah. >> Or I need you to make >> Have you had Have you had hard conversations in general, April, with them? Yeah. Yeah. Um I have and I've

even sat down and like worked budgets with them and and then they you know the next month they just blow that up and they do whatever they want and they buy whatever they want. So we've gone through several conversations of how can

they do better and what can we do to set them on the right path. Um they went

through their own foreclosure and bankruptcy. >> My gosh. Six years ago.

>> I mean nothing's nothing's waking them up. It sounds like >> no that they've had two bankruptcies actually. So >> you go through financial literacy training with a bankruptcy. So it it really boggles my mind that >> they're just not learning. >> How old are they late?

>> 70. They're Yeah. Yeah. They're just 70.

So >> And what would happen if you didn't I'm just curious. If you did not give them any money, what would what would happen to them? Would they not be able to pay their mortgage? Like like logistically, what happens?

I think that they would fall into a position where they couldn't pay their rent and they would eventually >> have some eviction process >> and then what

>> I don't know cuz physically they also can't they're not um physically financially they're not capable >> like we're [clears throat] actually looking at my mom going into an assisted living because of how bad things are and

uh so it it's more than just financial But it's uh you know I I love to

dedicate my time to help them with their problem and I do dedicate my money but

you know there's a there's a give and take. >> Yeah. Well I I

personally if I if somebody comes to me if a buddy of mine from back in the day comes to me and says hey I'm struggling with X Y and Z. I need some help. I'm

much more likely to say, I will help with this car repair or I will pay the landlord directly or I

me and two of my siblings will contribute to, you know, the long-term care. I'm not going to write you a check and hand you cash.

>> Right. Right. >> Right. So, I'm not going to I'm not going to do this because you are pro have proven over and over you can't handle this stuff. I think you and your husband need to get in a room together and just decide. >> Yeah. What does he say? >> What are our boundaries going to be?

>> What's your husband say about it?

>> Um, so this is where we break the all the Ramsay rules because we've been

together 13 14 years. Married three of

those and we've never completely merged

our checking. >> Okay. So, you're Does he know you're giving them money? >> He knows. Yeah, he knows. and and uh

it's always a conversation every time I do it because >> it you know it's our future. We do have

planning together. >> This is a recipe for simmering resentment over time.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

So, I think this is the moment, April, honestly, that you guys combine everything and you say, "We are a team, which means we're going to tackle one of the hardest issues probably we're going to have to in a while." And that's what is being generous with my parents look like and we're going to agree together on that with our money. And there's something about that spirit that kind of like it's almost like you're adding a conflict to a really hard thing. But there's a part of me that's like it kind of forces it all out there for you guys and and and it forces you to face the music together and for you maybe to hear some things you may not want to hear or need to hear vice versa with him.

I don't know. There's something about it that I'm like you guys need to go all in together.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and you have to like I would just metabolize. Nothing you can say or do is going to change how your parents act. >> Y >> that ship has sailed.

>> You have to decide what are you going to contribute out of a spirit of generosity. And um I I'm going to do X,

Y, or Z, [music] but we're done trying to teach. >> As for your sister, maybe you say this is the last time I bail you out unless you want to [music] do a budget with me.

>> Thanks for the call, April. Thanks everyone in the booth. John, thank you as always. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial [music] peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

---

## 54. Fear Doesn't Call The Shots On Your Finances | June 3, 2026


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| :--- | :--- |
| **Video ID** | `2MT__MJtW_Y` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MT__MJtW_Y) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:29:09 |

---

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author. He's my co-host today. Gabe is in Salt Lake City. Hey Gabe, what's up in your world? Dave, I'm

here. That is me. Dave, it's nice to have you uh talking to me and I really appreciate you taking my call. >> Our pleasure. >> Um George, too. Um so, random question.

Um so, my my dad is very kind. Every time my wife and I have a child, he gives us a 1oz gold coin. That's the

kids, they own it, right? Um I brought

it to his attention. I was like, "Well, if it's theirs and they can do whatever they want with it. Let's invest it for them so that by the time they're 18, you know, they have a substantial amount of money." because right now they're, you know, between ages 1 and seven. Um, and so he doesn't want us to do that because he wants it to be like a heirloom type thing or some sort of way to remember him, which I get that, but it's also really not doing them any favors having the coins sit in my safe not doing anything, not gaining any interest.

obligation to do as he says and not do anything with it or invest it and wait till they're 18 to give it to them or if I can go ahead and do what I think is best for my kids and invest the money or the the coins cuz right now they're worth anywhere between, you know, 4,500 bucks and five grand an ounce depending on the day.

>> Yeah. I mean, you've had a conversation and he told you not to do that.

Correct. Yeah. But I just I don't I don't agree. So I'm like, well, they're my kids technically. They're not his. So I'm like, well, I I don't I don't to me.

It seems like I'm doing them a disservice if anything just having it sit there. So I don't know.

Yeah. Um,

I I I um I I would come down personally

on the idea that my relationship with my dad is more important than four grand.

>> Yeah. >> Well, I mean, it's not for me. It's >> It doesn't matter who it's for. It's for my kids. Four grand for my kids.

>> And by the way, it's not really a $4,000 discussion we're having. It's whatever it would grow if it were invested versus what gold did. And it would be, you know, it might not be 4 grand. So, um, >> is he doing this regularly?

>> No, one time when they're born.

>> Uh, one time when they're born. So, you know, we have six kids, so we have six coins. >> All right.

Yeah. How How old is your dad?

>> How's he feeling? >> A pertinent variable.

>> How's he How's he getting along?

Yeah. Uh he's, you know, he's he's he's

kicking. He's doing, you know, he's he's doing good, which I hopefully that means something good for me when I uh >> I I personally would just forget that you have the coins and put them in a safe and just not worry about it. And you need to do whatever you need to do for your children's benefit and then someday that coin will be around. Um >> are you investing for your kids outside of that for college or anything else?

Uh, no. Not we haven't started doing that yet. We need to, but are you on that baby step? >> Nice jump start.

>> Uh, are we on that baby step? No, we're not. >> Okay. Well, you shouldn't be until you get there. But yeah, so finish up getting out of debt. Get your emergency fund in place. You guys live your life and take care of your kids and then this becomes an irrelevant issue because you've taken care of them

financially. You've prepared for their college financially and whatever.

>> And my guess is once they're adults, they'll choose what they want to do with it. you know, and and you know, all kidding aside, when he passes away, I'm cashing him in, but um I'm not going to

do that. So, my my grandmother used to give my kids savings bonds uh every so often. Uh not just at birth. Um not substantial amounts of money, but not not as much as these coins are worth even. But I never really asked her about them. I didn't say anything about it. I just cashed them in.

>> I didn't even bring it up.

>> Uh but now that you brought it up, you got a problem, you know. Now everybody knows >> I cashed them in and I put the money in a mutual fund. And when my grandmother asked me how the bonds were doing, I would give her an honest answer and say they're doing very well.

>> Now that I cashed them in and put them in a mutual fund, I didn't say that part, but yeah, but I I um I I would not

have hurt her feelings or stirred up a

relational uh strife between me and my granny over that amount of money. It wouldn't have been worth it to me. >> Yeah. Yeah, if this is meant to be an heirloom sort of gift from him, it's like getting a, you know, a pair of socks from grandma. I'm going to keep them around cuz grandma gave it to me.

>> I got grandpa's pocketk knife, too.

>> Yeah, that's a cool heirloom. >> But, but, you know, it's not >> you're not going to sell it >> and I'm not going to sell it. Um, and it's not worth anything except to me.

>> So, that's an heirloom. That's what an heirloom is. An heirloom is not an investment. So, when you con convolute the two, you make a mistake. And so, dad is making a mistake. Yeah.

>> But uh and the other mistake he's making is he's asking >> he's giving a gift and then putting extreme >> conditions >> conditions upon it. >> Strings are >> guilt trips guilt trips upon it. If you sell it, they won't have anything to remember me by. >> Give them something else to remember you by that doesn't involve a liquid asset like that.

>> How about a fishing trip? Yeah. Uh teach them to water ski. You know, all my my grandkids are going to remember a lot of things about me, you know, but um >> I'll remember that you taught me to water ski.

>> There we go.

>> Yeah. Drug George around behind the boat until >> I didn't do as well as the children did.

But I hung on for dear life. I'll tell you. >> He got up. He got up and rode. Man, I'm a good teacher and George is George is persevering. >> He's a great coach. >> But I mean that, you know, you remember that more than that gold coin I didn't give you. >> You see, >> the problem is it's worth $4,500. So he's going, that's a lot of money for a child.

>> 25 26 grand. You're not serious money laying around. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's just Yeah. I I >> But I I do think the relationship is on the line. And so is it that's what you're really betting against?

>> Yeah. If it was $4 million, I'm probably going to tell dad, you know, hey, but for four grand, I'm

not going to do that, you know. So that that's the issue and that that's how we work it out. So, good question. So, one of the things moms and dads that listen to this show, um, grandparents that listen to the show, uh, need to think about is what kind of strings are you putting on a gift and at what point at how many strings does a gift have to have before it's not really a gift. It's just a control feature.

>> So, you know, I've got a friend that gave all of his grown children and their

spouses a free house. He paid for it.

>> Wow. And the only string was he had them sign a letter that said they would never borrow money. >> I like that. >> Now, is that too much control for a free house?

>> No. >> Not. But if a kid said, "Oh, no. I might want to borrow money someday, so I'm going to have to deny that gift." Then that would be a fair thing that they could do that.

They could say, "I don't agree with you on the debtree living. I want to go and use leverage and other people's money. I've been watching real estate Tik Tok videos and so I want to get rich quick in real estate so I'm not going to accept that gift. They could choose to do that.

>> Yeah, that's a little awkward. >> You have to say that on the front end >> communication. >> This is what we're doing and then once you've agreed to it, you've agreed to it. And so in a sense, Gabe has accepted

the coin >> with the terms and conditions >> with the terms that he won't sell it because it's a heirloom.

>> And so in that sense, that's the that's the string attached to that coin. Is that too much? Uh no, I don't think it is. I don't think it is. And I think if I was the giver of the other thing you could do, switch uh

uh switch places. What if you were on the other side and how would you feel?

>> That's a good point. >> Yeah. The watch I'm wearing was an heirloom gift and they said just don't sell it. I said guarantee I will not sell it. I'm going to make grandpa happy. >> There you go. >> So there you go. >> Was it grandpa? >> Yeah, my wife's grandpa. He passed and so grandma said the watch is yours. You can fix it up and keep >> as long as you don't sell it. >> And so I will never sell this watch. >> That's a fair gift. I like that.

>> I like it. Cool watch. >> Thank you.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price.

No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Greg is with us in Idaho Falls, Idaho.

Hi, Greg. How are you?

>> Doing good yourself, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So my wife, just to kind of let you know from the beginning, my wife and I started your program back in 2010. My

aunt gave me some CDs of yours and so we've kept to that pretty much our entire marriage of 15 years now, almost 16 years. Um, we are now to the point

over uh that time we've had ups and downs in our finances in the sense of how much we make, but we have always been able to stay debtree.

And uh back in 2023, we purchased our

first home. We could now officially purchase our first home, afford to do it, and but our children um ages 13 to

nine. We've got four children. uh are

now, you know, getting into those teenage years where my wife wants to start doing vacations to really build

memories and different things like that because we've never really had a lot of money to do that. Whereas I want to work

on paying off our mortgage faster. Um,

we've kind of gone up and down in the sense of paying a few extra $100 here and there on each payment, but she is

really fighting against it because she wants to save that money for doing things and creating memories for our kids. Am I in the wrong here?

>> Now, this is the stage at which you would do vacations. I'm assuming you're out of debt and have your emergency fund, >> correct? Yeah, we've got about 40,000 in our bank account. Are you putting 15% of your income away for retirement?

>> Yes. Okay. Yeah, we >> are you putting more than that away for retirement? >> We are not. >> Are you saving any other money?

>> So, we have No, we are not. We We've got

Well, we've got a um I work for the

state of Idaho, so we've got a Percy uh

pension fund that we have. >> I mean, you don't have $100,000 sitting in cash over to the side just cuz you're a saver.

No, no, but we've got we've got about 40,000 in cash.

>> Is that your emergency fund?

>> It it is portion of it is our emergency fund. The other portion is just regular savings. Just savings basically your savings in an envelope. We've got the

way our credit union works is we can make digital envelopes and put them in, you know, we put >> some into Are those what are those other savings earmarked for?

>> Yeah. Uh yes we do. We've got one that's basically uh miscellaneous that we >> And how much is in miscellaneous?

>> About 10 grand or so.

>> You have a vacation envelope?

>> We do. >> How much is in that?

>> About 3,000.

>> Okay. And um what do you owe on your mortgage?

>> We owe about 377,000.

>> Okay.

And um

Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Uh about 105,000 and that's only been

within the last 3 years as well. We we moved up here due to a job that >> paid us enough to to really do well.

>> First I'm going to tell you that both of you you and your wife have done a wonderful job. >> You are really on top of this. I'm so impressed with where you are and how you've gotten there, the journey that you've been on. You you you have worked the plan that we teach. Thank you for doing that and and the success in your finances as a parent. So, way to go.

>> Thank you. >> Now, what comes to mind is a couple things. The answer to your question, sadly, is you're both right.

>> Nobody wins here. >> Yes, we should reduce the mortgage and yes, we should go on vacation. Right.

That's but and this is the stage four, five and six where you live not intensely but intentionally

>> and intentionally would be we upgrade mama's car, we buy a couch, we go on vacation and we also want to get to baby step six and pay down this 375 because we don't want to just sit there and look at us. Okay. Yeah.

>> So I think um what we want to talk about is you and her I would suggest you talk about exact numbers.

>> Yeah. So, when you say, "Mom, that you

want to do some vacations with the kids,

let's put a number on that. What What do you mean?" >> Well, to kind of to kind of give you a little bit of a history on that, I come from a family that has traveled quite a bit. I mean, my my parents, we weren't we weren't ever rich, but my dad worked for the post office for 40 years. Mhm.

>> So he, you know, he's and they've been extremely wise with their money, which has always been. >> So I mean, what does she mean when she says she wants to travel?

>> She means she wants to experience the same thing. I mean, I >> What does it cost to do what she wants to do?

>> Uh, say that. I'm sorry. Say that.

>> What does it cost >> to do what she wants to do?

>> 4,000, 10,000, or 40,000? Well, she

wants she wants to, you know, she's not the type of person that has to go to the the Hilton or the >> Honey, what does it cost to do what she

wants to do?

>> Uh, probably anywhere between 4 to 5,000. >> Shut up and do it. >> You have the money. Use a little bit of that miscellaneous fund and >> that's not going to keep you from paying off the mortgage. >> And then for the future, just set up that scing fund. If you guys decide we're doing 6,000 worth of vacations a year, >> 3,000 of the 4,000 in the envelope.

>> Okay. >> And honey, I'm going to agree to a $4,000 budget. And after that, you're going to let me do what I want to do, which is everything past that, we're going to be chunking on to the mortgage.

>> We both get what we want.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> so the 4,000 is not prohibitive. In the scenario you gave me, you guys have been too good about what you're doing to have

4,000 keep you from getting to baby step 7. It won't do it.

>> Well, and then and that's not, you know, I mean, we we've got a basement we're trying to finish. And I guess that's where I was hoping we would be able to put more money towards that and getting the house paid off rather than >> All you got to do is just sit down with these things and go, "Okay, if we put 4,000 there, what do we put on the basement?" Or maybe we hold off on the basement because we're traveling because I still want to reduce the mortgage. Or maybe I hold off reducing the mortgage to get the basement finished and then I'm going to reduce the mortgage.

So all you do is just line these things up and force rank them. But the thing is I have found with my wife and I found with everybody I've coached with over the years.

The first one of those I ever had, my wife was driving one of those horrible tricolored blue Astro vans.

>> Nasty. It smelled like the family dog

and goldfish were ground into the carpet. >> I'm not talking about real goldfish. I'm talking about the crackers. Right.

And uh she was This thing had like 800,000 million miles on it and it smoked like a tar wagon. like it was the Batman smoke mobile. And she's like, "I need a new car." And I'm like, "Yes, you need a new car. What do you want to spend on a new car?

I need a new car. What do you want to spend? I WOULD WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SPEND ON THE CAR?" MY GOD.

it. Okay. And then so we settled on we're going to spend $15,000. Well, that settled it cuz I had 30 and I was wanting to do some stuff here at the office, some reinvestment. I said, "All right, let's get the car and then I'll do the reinvestment. I can wait a little bit. Let's get you a car cuz you do need a car. But if you want a $110,000 car,

no, we do have something to argue about.

>> It's unreasonable. But we're not moving from the goldfish Astro van to 110. It wasn't that big a step up, right?

>> Yeah. The villain here is not vacations.

It's the lack of clarity.

>> Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. >> And so I think you can set up the scing fund and go, "All right, we're going to put 500 bucks away for vacations and 500 bucks onto the mortgage if you have a,000 bucks left over each month." That's an easy way to do it. But the fact of the matter is you're not budgeting. You're not sitting down going, "Where is every dollar going?" >> But you can't have these conversations where you roll your eyes and say, "Well, I just wish we could have fun." Well, he said, "I already did all the travel when I was a kid." >> What does that mean?

I just wish we could enjoy ourselves.

>> Well, I mean, is it talking about me paying off the mortgage? I'm having joy.

Okay. So, what are you talking about here? Well, we could if I could just go out to eat once a month. Well, then shut up. We can do that. You don't need to roll your eyes to get that. You need to just give me a dollar amount and I can put it in the budget. >> You know, this is this is nor All a man wants is clarity. Yeah. And that really, seriously, this is the argument that most people have. Put a number to it

>> then you might have to argue. But until you put a number to it, you don't have an argument. >> It's just feelings and vibes.

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So, the market was up 17% last year.

It's up 11% this year so far.

And it was up 23% the year or 26% the

year before. um it doesn't always have

those kinds of numbers, but it averages about 11% a year. So, if it doesn't make any more this year, um that would be the average. And it does look like it probably will make more than that this year, um based on what's going on.

Sometimes what you need to start investing is just some coach you and

teach you, someone with the heart of a teacher. So for help with investing, you should get a Smart Invest Pro in your corner.

Smart Investor pros are registered investment professionals who lead with the heart of a teacher. We've been connecting listeners to them for over 20 years. They can help you create a plan and they will teach you and you will make your investing decisions. They don't make them for you and Dave doesn't make them for you. But not participating in these wonderful rates of return because you don't know instead of getting a teacher to teach you so you do know, that's silly. So, we'll show you

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that we have vetted and that have that heart of a teacher for free. Go to ramseolutions.com/smartfester to find an investing pro near you. Or if

you're on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the description. and it'll drop you right there. Kim is in North Carolina. Hi, Kim. How are you?

>> Hey, good, >> good. What's up? >> How are you? >> How can we help?

>> Um, I sold a property, but I'm the bank and I

need to foreclose on it for nonpayment

for a little over a year.

>> Wow. >> Yeah, you do. But >> I'm having trouble finding a lawyer that will do the work.

>> Why?

Well, it's either two people said they were near retirement and they only did traffic court. Other people said they don't do that area.

>> Mhm. >> I mean, I don't know if I >> Okay. Hey, just jump on jump on Can you jump on our website? How old are you, Kim?

>> I'm 51. >> 51. 51.

>> Yes. >> Oh, cool. Okay. All right. Well, jump on our website at ramseysolutions.com and look up the real estate agent in your area. The Ramsey trusted real estate agent or agents in your area.

Pick up the phone and call them and ask

them who tell them you talked to me on the air and I said you that they would give you a name of a real estate attorney that does foreclosures.

>> Okay? >> And a real estate agent will know a real estate attorney that does foreclosures.

That's what you need. You don't need somebody that did traffic court.

>> Well, no. I mean, they used to do foreclosures, real estate issues, but then they're near retirement, so they're slowing down. >> Yeah. Wrong one. We want somebody You're You've You've waited too long to do this. You needed to have done this about five or six or seven months ago, and now that it's a year late, and you need to get on this this week.

>> Oh, I know. >> Yeah. Don't Don't don't sit on this. I want you to find an attorney in the next seven days and start the foreclosure.

You just make that your mission. Okay.

>> Yes.

>> Thank you. >> Yeah. If you'll go to Ramsey Solutions to Ramseyed, you can do that. George, you got any other suggestions on how to find one? >> I mean, that's the best way to do it. Ramseyolutions.com/agent.

And every real estate agent knows a good real estate attorney because they've worked with a bunch of them.

>> A lot of the title companies that do closings for them also have someone on staff that does foreclosure. >> Yeah. Every title I've done, every closing I've done has an attorney there on site. So, >> yeah, but they don't always, sometimes they just do closings. They don't always do foreclosures, but but they will know.

And I don't know how the market is set up today. Many years ago, when I bought foreclosures for a living, there were about five attorneys in Nashville that did probably 90% of the foreclosure business. >> Yeah. >> And the big mortgage companies were like, "Bring them a whole box. Here, do these 16." Right. And that kind of thing. And so it was um Dyke Tatum was

one of the guy's names. I haven't talked to Dyke in 25 years. I wonder what Dyke is doing. He's a wonderful guy, but I did a lot of deals with Dyke.

Uh I mean because I was buying the foreclosure and he was the attorney and I had to take him the money to stop the foreclosure. Right. >> And so um but those guys >> I wonder if there's less foreclosures now, so less people are kind of finding that. >> There's plenty.

There's plenty. Um they're just not um as profitable as they used to be.

that's how I would do it. I would find a real someone in the industry in the real estate industry that can guide you.

Maybe your insurance agent might also know someone, but probably more likely a good real estate agent. And the best way to find one of those is a Ramsey trusted agent. >> And don't don't take up like two hours of the agent's time. Just ask them for the name and the phone number. The name and the phone number and just jump on it and call them right then and get somebody and get her done.

Andrew is in Los Angeles. Hi, Andrew.

>> Wow. I'm talking to Dave Ramsey. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. And George Camel.

>> Can you believe it? >> Wow.

>> Um, so, so Dave, my aunt is in her late

60s and she was recently diagnosed with cancer. She's getting her stairs. Yeah.

She's uh getting her affairs in order and she has an estate worth around $3 million and she doesn't have any will or trust

and my family's asked me I'm the attorney in the family to help her think through options. So this is the situation. She has one child my cousin who's in his mid20s and she raised him as a single mother and they've had a difficult relationship for a long time.

He had a lot of serious behavioral issues growing up. He uh had vi issues

of violence against her. Uh he dropped out of college. My family worked very hard to get him into college. He dropped out his freshman year. Um he's uh struggled to hold jobs. He's losing touch with her. And at this point, he's eventually cut off all contact with her.

He does not know that she has cancer.

>> Not exactly a redeemable character.

Okay. >> So far, that's correct.

So, um, we know very little about him. And this is getting the fact she she's going to leave everything to him. That's not where the judgment call is. It's a non-negotiable for her.

>> Um, and we just know very little about

him. Uh, we're not going to be able to make this decision really in touch with him because there's a lot of volatility that comes from opening up that door.

What we know about him is that he recently got married. um he uh is

non-invited to the wedding. Um and we know that he's applying himself for a skilled trade um as as a and so um

nobody's family's opposing or uh him

getting this money, but the concern is how do we give it to him? Because I mean

I I know from listening to your program long enough that getting $3 million can

derail somebody's life. And you know, the best case scenario for us is for him to apply himself and have a stable, constructive, productive life rather than, you know, accidentally having everything go haywire because he suddenly has $3 million and no ability to deal with it. >> Yeah. Do you do estate planning work?

>> I don't do estate planning. Um I I have

general familiarity and I have Yeah.

Yeah, but I mean I would call one of your buddies in the legal, you know, an attorney that does estate planning work and try to get some suggestions. The only thing that pops into my mind um couple thoughts. Um the first one is a

trust with some wild almost bad bem

movie like uh traits to the trust like

you know uh he has to meet these guidelines to see the money otherwise at after so many years the money goes to a charity. Okay. And what would be the guidelines? That he's um not committed violence. Um that he's uh I don't know in church. I don't know. He's held down a job. Um he's

>> uh I don't know what do you what measure can she put in a trust that of character that a trustee could measure against you know an objective measurable thing that

would allow the money to be released.

Otherwise, the money is not to be released.

Because if she gives money to a bad character, it makes him a super bad character. >> Right. >> She is not helping him when she does that. She's harming him >> and the money will disappear instantly.

>> Yeah. So, you give money to a jerk, they

become a colossal jerk.

>> So, >> so you can get really detailed in that trust and decide, hey, at this age he gets this much. If he follows these guidelines, at this age he gets a little bit more. the full amount is released at this age. >> I personally would encourage her if she

wanted to listen to me not to give him the money.

>> You said it's a non-negotiable, but I really would not give it to him.

>> Is that right? >> Yeah, I really would. I I would give it to someone else or some charity, something that she cares about, someone that would use it well and appreciate it. And this young man's gonna has determined to find his own way. And I would let him.

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Aaron is with us in Baton Rouge. Hi Aaron, how are you?

Hi Dave. Hi George. I'm very happy to get the uh the idea dynamic duo.

>> Appreciate that. I will let John Deloney know.

>> Well, I I need some outside the box thinking here or maybe a gut a gut check. Um I don't know if I have a money

problem or a relationship vision problem with my wife.

Um, so we have a baby on the way. Yay.

>> We're both engineers. Yeah, we're very excited. Come September, October, depending on when it when it happens.

Um, our current expenses a month are about $5,500, but we want to go down to single income.

at least that my wife is getting really just overwhelmed with her work and being pregnant and the thought of having a baby with that is is too much. And I agree with her. She works at a chemical plant so those are crazy hours, crazy work, but with our mortgage and with everything it I see a money problem. We did a mock

budget that's about that uh little over

$4,000 a month, but I see us being in

the red by about two or 300 bucks a month if we went down to single income.

>> Did she see that? >> Buckling down. I'm sorry.

>> She saw that.

>> She wrote it.

>> Okay. >> She about Okay. So, obviously that doesn't work.

But what do we adjust?

>> 40 grand in savings. >> What? No. 40 grand in savings will be gone. You can't have a burn rate on your budget.

>> You need the opposite of a burn rate on your budget. And and so no, 40 grand

doesn't cover it. Um is it'll be gone in

about 30 years.

>> H >> I don't know. I mean, >> it was going to be a temporary.

>> Something has to adjust.

How temporary? And I'm >> what's going to happen a year after >> one or two years >> and then what happens?

>> She get she goes back into work and I'm making more money at my 9 to5. Not to mention I have a hobby job which I could bring in an extra1 to $2,000 a month but

that takes me out of the house and it's important to her that I'm here too.

>> Okay. There's no cake and eat it too. We

have to be grown-ups.

>> All right. And so we need a plan

that includes no red ink. I don't even

care what the plan is, but something's going to be uncomfortable.

Let's decide in advance what that is.

But no, I would not have a burn rate budget. So let's just decide, are we going to move and get a cheaper house?

>> You guys are engineers.

>> Are we going to sell the car?

>> Look at the process and go, what are all the variables we can change? What must be true? >> What levers can be flipped?

>> And there's a lot. You have expenses and then you have income. Do we need to downsize in house if this is a sacrifice we want to make long term? Because I would not assume that she's just going to automatically want to go back to work after a year. >> That's a dumb assumption. >> What if she loves being home and decides, "No, I don't want to go back to work ever." Well, now we have an immediate problem to solve. >> Yeah, that that there's a high probability that's what's coming. Um,

the thing I would think is I think the

easiest lever to flip is go from her unreasonable job to a some side hustle

for her that she controls the hours and

when the little cherub is asleep, she could work some from home and probably make enough to cover this with a side hustle. She's a freaking engineer.

>> She's a great one. >> Yeah. and but she's got an unreasonable job now from a stress hours and so forth

standpoint to be a new mommy. I'm not arguing that. You're not arguing that.

Okay. But that doesn't disqualify her from an in from creating an income completely in order to make largely make

her dream come true. or you know, you go work your side hustle and uh she just says, "Okay, the the cost of me getting to stay home and not work at all is that my husband's going to work some until his income comes up on the day job." Uh that's the cost or the cost of me staying home. When uh our children were tiny, we had some friends that uh I that

we both admired greatly. They had a big crazy beautiful home, both professionals. They had their first baby and they felt like no matter what that she had to be home with the child. It was a decision they made period and they sold everything and they moved to a house that was half the cost of the one they had before. And uh because they said what matters to us, what we value more than where we live is that that she

is at home. That was their value choice.

And and they were willing to sacrifice

to stick with that primary value. And I'm okay with you guys having that as your primary value, but then decide what has to go for that >> dep prioritized. >> Yeah, something's got to go.

>> Yes, sir. >> What does it look like to get your core income up by five or 10 grand?

>> Is it a different title? Is it something else? A different company? >> I'm I'm only three I'm 26. I'm only three years into being an engineer. So, I don't have the most leveraging power.

And I'm the job I'm at is a great great job for me to learn >> for the the 10-year engineer, you know.

>> Good. Good. So, what what is your side hustle? >> Second job of >> what's your side hustle? >> I uh I do live events, so concerts, weddings, festivals, and on some months I can pull an extra couple grand, but I'm working an extra 30 hours on the weekends.

So, I'm not home and I'm not present.

And she's made it appear apparent that she needs me. And for me, this is not an emergency because we can forecast it and plan it and emergency funds are for unexpected. But she told me that she is in an emergency right now. Just her

wellbeing. >> Bull crap.

>> Bull crap. Be a grownup. That's just

that's that's a guilt trip from hell.

No, that is not okay. That's not an okay

statement. I'm the emergency. Oh, good

lord. Seriously, be a grown-up lady.

You're a freaking engineer. If you want to stay home with your kid and that's what your calling is as a woman, I got no issue with that. A matter of fact, I support the decision. But we're not going to call you an emergency.

I get everything I want. No, you don't.

You get to be a grown-up like everybody else, and something's got to give. Bubba husband going to be working weekends.

You going to pick up a part-time job working from home as your side hustle to cover this difference or you guys are selling a stinking house and moving to a house you can afford with you staying at home. Make a decision, grown-up girl.

That's what has to happen. >> If the answer to what sacrifices are willing to make and the answer is none, then this can't happen. >> Yeah. The answer is I'm the emergency.

That's a fouryear-old child. No, I'm not

okay with that answer. And if she called me, I would be just as mean to her in person. So >> you're an equal opportunity. >> That's just, you know, no, I mean, because I got So my wife is this, she's

the opposite. She's hardcore too far the

opposite. >> Okay. So either way on the pendulum, right? But like, you know, we had a baby

in April. I filed bankruptcy in September.

When she had the baby, I went to the hospital. Obviously, I took her to the hospital. Rachel is delivered. I'm sitting there holding Rachel. I'd been there about 4 hours. And she says, "You

need to go to work.

>> You need to leave the hospital and go to work. >> Get out of here. I'm good now." >> Because the lights are going to get cut off if you don't. >> Wow. >> You know, I mean, that's the other end of the spectrum. It was actually an accurate statement. >> She understood the reality of the situation. >> Yeah. And it wasn't like, "I need you. I'm the emergency." Oh my. She would have strangled that. If I one of my daughters had said that, my wife would have strangled him.

>> I love that about Sharon. She tells it like it is. >> You need to go to work. Get up and leave the hospital. So, you know, so we had a guy apply for uh what is it? Paternity that the guy the guy doesn't want to work because they had a baby. And my wife's like, "Fire him." >> And I'm like, "Oh, no, no, you can't do that. It's illegal." >> She's like, "I don't care. He's a wuss.

Fire him." No, it's not because that it's cuz he's a wuss, Dave. That's why you need to get rid of this guy.

>> What kind of guy does that in her world?

It a hillbilly world. That does not compute. Yeah. You know, so I'm like, honey, it's illegal. You can't do that.

So, we're not going to be doing that.

But instead, we will listen patiently and then there'll be FMLA. But yeah. Oh my god.

So, >> I think we need to have Sharon taking some of these. When you're a grown-up, ladies and gentlemen, you don't get to declare yourself the emergency. Sorry.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host.

Amanda is in Houston. Hi, Amanda. How

are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you today?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hi. Um, so I'm kind of nervous and I know this question is very ridiculous, but my husband wants to get a hair transplant, but I'm going to be laid off at the end of this month. Should we pull from our house savings account so that he can do that? It would be roughly 5 to

seven grand.

>> You're asking a bald guy and another guy with perfect hair >> about a transplant. >> I know. I was like, that is kind of funny. Was going to be on my need to see a picture. Well, we need Rachel here with the hair extensions to chime in on this. >> She just got hers cut off.

>> They just took the hair extensions out.

She's back to short hair. Girl, >> how long has he been wanting this transplant?

>> Well, he just really started getting insecure about his hair in the last maybe like 6 months to a year. Been

getting kind of like more and more noticeable. He's 28 >> and based on what what his dad's hairline looks like, it's not looking too good in the next >> He sees the writing on the wall. The pattern is male pattern baldness. Oh my god. >> I'd be pretty insecure about your household income right now over hair.

When are you going to be laid off? >> I know. And that's that's what I'm saying. I'm more worried about that. And he just kind of like he's the more he's more of the free spirit and it's like oh like you know like out numbers like

>> what does he make? >> He makes and again I know this is also going to sound ridiculous but he makes 120,000 with bonus.

>> Okay. And what do you make >> plus bonus? I right now I make about 83.

>> And what do you do?

>> I'm in supply chain. >> And Oh, wonderful. And you know you're getting laid off at the end of June.

>> Yes. >> And you've known that for how long?

>> About a month and a half now. And why don't you have a new job and networking?

And I've had only two interviews and probably applied to two to 300 jobs at

this point. Applying for jobs as you have found does not work.

>> Actually, actually connecting to someone inside the organization that knows someone that knows someone that knows you. Someone gets your name out of the stack. We get 15,000.

Listen. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We get 15,000 applications a year at Ramsey. We hire a few hundred people.

>> So, putting your name in the mix with 15,000 is useless. Don't even waste your

time.

So, you've got to find someone to connect with with the proximity principle and I'll send you that book and you should have a job by now because supply chain is a highly soughtafter

wonderful career field that you're in.

That's awesome. And how much is in the house savings fund?

>> 29,000. >> Okay. Do you guys have other savings?

>> We have a $49,000 emergency fund. That's

good. >> And then we have um like 401ks and all that, but we don't count that. >> And you guys are how old? You told me this. >> I'm 27 and he's 28.

>> Yeah, you did. Okay. Thank you. Um All right. Um it you're right. It is kind of a funny question, but it's also not ridiculous.

It's It's something he cares about, and you guys have done very well with money up until you losing your job. His timing for the question is really horrible. and his suggestion to not buy a home instead of instead I want some hair.

>> I I don't think I'm gonna make that trade.

>> But is it ir is it is it completely irresponsible to spend $5,000 on this for him? No. Not in your own situation.

So what I would do is say, okay, under these under these scenarios is where I would get the money. Uh both of you are now when you get your new job, you guys save up an extra five grand out of your budget and then he does it. And so it might be Christmas.

Merry Christmas, you know. >> Yeah. And that's and that's probably when we'd want to go get it done anyway.

>> Yeah. So just cash flow it with your new job and with as a budget item. But I I I

there's just something that everyone listening, including me and George and you, it just feels um weird

to do plastic surgery instead of a down payment on a house.

Yes. >> When you're in a stressful time on top of that with the layoff. >> Well, you don't Yeah. You're not going to buy a house right now anyway. You got to wait till you get your job. But but I don't think I'm going to use my down payment uh for Botox, a boob job, or get hair.

I'm just not I mean, it's my down payment money, you know? >> So, earmark separate money so that you're >> Those things are all okay. If somebody wants to do them, that's what you want to spend your money on. That's okay. I'm not mad about that. And I'm And I'm not making any ball jokes. I'm the ball guy.

I can't do that. That's completely illegal. It's against federal law. >> And Dave can afford a hair transplant.

He has chosen not to on his own valition.

Yeah, >> it's a good look. >> I do remember where he is. I'm laughing to myself. I don't know if I should tell this story or not. So, what happens is and I bet you your husband the same way.

I started losing my hair first in the back.

Is that is that is that where he's going thin in the back?

>> No, he's got a he's got a widow's a really hard widow's peak and he's losing it all in the front. >> Right in the front. Okay. cuz I was losing mine like back here, you know, in in the back.

And so I didn't know it >> and no one told you. >> Well, that's the problem. So I go play this how many thousands of years ago. I go play raetball and I got in the shower and I got out and I got my my haird dryer out and my buddy starts laughing at me.

>> And this is when I realized I was bald.

I knew it was getting thin, but I never thought anything about it. But him making fun of me and I actually know his name. I could say it right now and I won't. But he, this guy, he completely shamed me in the locker room with my hair dryer. Last time I ever used a hairdryer in my life, except except to dry some clothing one time. But yeah.

Oh, too funny. No. Anyway, yeah, I just embraced it and went on. Of course, I was too broke to do anything about it. You guys aren't. >> Well, what's I would not use my down payment money. I would do it if it's something that means something to him, but I would do it as a budget item after you get back to work. What do you think, George? >> Yeah, I agree with that. The stipulation would be you're working again and we save up different money outside of this down payment fund or emergency fund.

>> Yeah. I just then you feel good.

>> I would feel

shallow to use my

down payment money for a home for my family for my own cosmetic benefit.

>> Yes, I would feel shallow.

>> It's not like a >> And I think I might even call you shallow if you did that.

>> So, um >> just wear a hat for 6 months.

That does the trick, too. >> I'd still do that. >> But I know where this is coming from, Dave. I've seen this. I bet he's being served up all these videos on Instagram and Tik Tok of these trips.

>> Once you enter in something, you get in the algorithm, then you get get sucked into the vortex. >> But all these influencers are going to Turkey and getting their hair transplants. And so that that's 100%. If

we had her on the line, she'd say, "Yep, it's he's going to Turkey.

>> It's a special thing." Turkey.

>> Yep. Specific to Turkey. The average household income in Turkey is $5,800.

I'm going there to spend $5,000 on my

hair. >> I think it's not approved in America or something. I don't know all the details, but I think that's why people don't >> get Turkish hair. >> Yep. It's thicker.

>> I don't know how they do it. Dave, >> this is too much. George, what you know about because I'm not on social media and you are. Blow my mind.

>> I don't know how it showed up in my feed either, Dave. >> Well, you got perfect hair, so they were shopping. I was just intrigued.

>> They were shopping. They wanted They wanted to look like you.

>> I do like the before and after. You see those billboards and you're like, "That's clearly photoshopped." >> Mine's gotten so thin. I used to for a while there. I kind of had that late Shan Connory version for a little while going, but not even that anymore. It's so thin. >> You know, can I say you look younger than you did 25 years ago >> with the comb over? Yeah. The little comb over thing. Didn't didn't And the Mr. Magcoo glasses.

>> They they didn't do it for me. Yeah.

>> I miss that era of Dave.

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I don't think I've ever gotten a hair replacement call before >> really. >> I might have >> 35 years. >> I don't remember getting one.

Anything's possible, but it's not a frequently brought up subject.

>> It's the first one I've heard.

>> I'm sure of that. Hey guys, we wish we could get to every call and question here on the show. So, if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head on over to our website at ramseyolutions.com. You can use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free

AI tool that is built and trained only

on proven Ramsey principles. And if you don't know how AI works, it can only

pull its answers from the data set you give it. And the only answers we gave it, the only data set we gave it was us on the air, our books, our articles. So there's no crap from Tik Tok or Reddit

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It's a free AI tool at ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on a podcast or YouTube. Lori is in Salt Lake City. Hi Lori. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hi George. I'm fantastic.

>> Good. What's up?

>> Um well I've been a stay-at-home mom for 32 years and my youngest just got married a few years ago and moved out.

So, we're empty nesters and now my husband thinks it's the perfect time for me to go to work and try and contribute something to our finances, but I honestly I just don't want to. And I have a lot of reasons why I don't want to, but I just don't want to. And I want to know if I'm okay in that opinion.

>> Do do does the family need the money?

>> No, I don't feel that we do. Our home is paid off. Um, we don't want for anything

from paycheck to paycheck.

>> You have money going into retirement.

>> Um, yeah. My husband puts uh about 35%

of his check in retirement. He currently has about 680,000 in retirement and he's

will have a little over a million when he retires in eight years. >> Yeah. And what's your home worth? What's your home worth?

>> Our home in our our acreage is about 560,000.

We paid it off last year. We have no >> So you're worth a million to a million and a half dollars >> and he makes what a year?

>> 118.

>> Okay.

What is it that you're unable to do that the income you earn he thinks is worth it? The

family is unable to do X because you don't work and he wants you to go.

>> Yeah. We're not unable to do anything.

We go on cruises. We

eat out. We buy things when we need

them. We don't We're not missing

anything. I think it's more of a finally I can contribute money where he has paid our way all these years, I guess, financially, but I've raised our four kids and even

though they're grown and now they're out of the house, they still live in the same city. And I would like to still be available for the Hey, Mom.

No, we don't support any of our kids.

>> Okay. So, we would call you a successful mother.

>> I think I did a good job. >> Yeah, they they launched they launched and they're not on the dole. That's unusual in America. You're in the top 10% of motherhood.

>> They're not in your basement or on your payroll. That's a win. >> Yeah. I think you've already earned your your retirement. Um so, have you point blank asked him, "What problem does this solve for me to go back to work?" I have

I have what?

>> Well, he goes it's just extra money

on the money. >> That doesn't solve a problem.

>> So, is it that he's worried you're not going to have purpose and get stir crazy and do retail therapy? Like, what is he actually concerned about?

I think he's just hyperfixated on

now I have the ability to to add to the

income of this family. He he tells me that no amount of money will ever be enough in retirement and Iion

there's a fear behind all we ever could spend. >> Yeah. There's a lack of contentment.

Okay. >> He is worried that you guys won't be okay. >> Okay. There's two >> I I don't know how to solve this for you guys as a couple and you may end up having to sit down with someone. But there's two issues that are at the core of this and they're both spiritual.

Okay, spiritual issue number one is contentment and that's a spiritual decision. When is enough enough? And he can't get there.

And um so he he's never going to gain

from hitting his money goals any kind of peace because he can't cuz he because he makes statements like and believes things like uh there's no never enough for retirement. And so that's a fear-based thing. You guys are in good shape. You're millionaires and you started from nothing. Congratulations.

Uh you're baby steps millionaires. You follow the stuff. You did it. So way to go. That's problem number one. And I can't fix that for someone else. I can just point it out and then let them decide if they want to work on it or not. But uh John Deloney always says

around here on on issues in your life that are giving you angst. You have to solve for peace. And in this case, solving for peace is sitting down at the foot of Jesus and saying, "All right, Lord, help me find peace

about this money stuff because I the way

I was brought up, my work ethic, something is driving me because this

fear-based stuff is driving me and I can't find contentment." And so I know where I know where to direct him to, but I can't do it for him. Then the second thing, the second thing and this is even more problematic for me and uh because

it's personal.

My wife uh left the workplace when my oldest daughter was born. Our first child was born. She's been at home the entire time and um she did not go back

to work when the youngest child left home either, which is where you guys are. We were multi-millionaires by then.

Um, and um,

uh, uh, you know, we had plenty of money. You've got plenty of money. She did not need to go back to work. And frankly, I did not want her to because I enjoy her being

available if I want to go do something.

and she's not tied down by a boss, you know, and so uh and that's, you know, if I if I want her to go with me when I'm going to do an event in New York or we're flying up to New York City to do something, she can go with me. I can be on Fox and we can go to a play and go out to eat, but she can't do that if she's got a boss, right? And so I didn't I didn't want her to. I wanted to So that's selfish on my part.

But here's the core thing that I want to address that's bothering me and it because it's I've had a hard time convincing my wife of this and I need to convince your husband of this.

Dave Ramsey is a major national brand

and has 35 plus years of successful

radio career contiguous without ever

leaving the air.

Eight New York Times bestselling eight number one bestselling books. um a thousand team members and hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue is because my wife was a successful mom.

If I had to go home and deal with a bunch of crap every day, I couldn't have gotten the things done that I've gotten done down here at the office. If I was having to deal with drama and I was having to deal with neediness and I was having to deal with high maintenance and you were none of those. So, you performed a very professional,

high-end, welldone job of mother and

home economist. And he needs to give you credit for that. I'm giving my wife credit for it. And it's not false credit. I promise you. I've seen people I've seen men and women who were der their their potential in the marketplace was derailed by a highmaintenance spouse.

Mine was quite the opposite. and your husband's was quite the opposite.

Darling, you are the reason that you guys have a million dollars. Not his pity little $118,000 job. You are the

reason because your children haven't milked you completely dry like a whole bunch of entitled millennial brats have done to their parents cuz you raised good kids. You raised people of character. You are the reason that the wealth is there. you've already earned more than he has. You just didn't get economic credit for it in the way our system is set up. So, I'm kind of pissed off at him right now.

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Renee is in Sacramento. Hi Renee, how are you? Hi, good afternoon.

>> Afternoon. What's up?

>> I am needing to be pointed in a

direction. Um, my mother passed away in

2024 and my sister and I have inherited her

commercial properties.

Um, and they have tenants in them currently. So, there is rental income coming into the trust. The properties are going to be deated over to my sister and I and I was told that we will likely

need to establish an LLC for the rental

income to flow into and then expenses to

be paid out of. The caveat is is that my

sister has a history of stealing half of

756,000

and not paying her share of our father's

income and estate taxes timely. So that

led to me being threatened with garnishment from the IRS because I was the only one gainfully employed.

How how many how many property how many properties are involved in this transaction and what are they worth?

>> One was appraised at 4.2 million and one

was appraised at 2.4 million.

>> Mhm.

Okay.

Um >> I don't want to be on a bank account with someone who has stolen money from me. >> I don't blame you. Why don't why don't we just sell both properties and you guys go on your way.

>> Um that was the original plan.

>> Um however, the there's a there is

someone interested in purchasing the lesser valued property, but he can't purchase it right now. So, he wants to lease it for 5 years.

>> Well, then he's not your buyer. Why don't you just get somebody else to buy it?

Um, unfortunately the decision is not up to me. My mom left all decisions to be made by a trustee.

>> So, and and I am a lesser beneficiary.

My sister's 60%, I'm 40%.

>> Mhm. >> So, I don't really have a say.

>> Is the trustee aware of her behavior?

>> He is. And personally, I think it's a conflict of interest, but he is also my

sister's trustee.

>> Mhm.

Okay. Um, well, you need legal count you

need legal counsel to force the trustee

to sell the to liquidate the properties because you don't need to be >> in any kind of a deal with her. Period.

>> Yes. Okay. because they and so I don't care what we facilitate here. Um I mean

you could sell the $4 million one and

you take uh 3 million and she takes the

other property in a million.

It's not 50/50 but yeah whatever whatever 6040 works out.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So um but I mean you could sell that property and take your share out of that. >> It's about 1.68 million. See, so there's 6 million and you have 40%. So 2.4 is

yours, right?

>> Right. >> And the other propert the little property's worth what?

>> 2.4. >> Oh, why don't you just take that and give her the other one?

>> Um, I offered to do that and the trustee

declined. >> Why?

Um because the person who is in the process of purchasing it um he really

wants to give this person the opport the chance of the opportunity of owning that property. >> Why? Who is this person?

>> Um this person was a longtime manager

for my parents' business.

>> Is the business operating in that property?

um our family business

um ceased in March of 2024.

>> Okay. >> There is another retail business in there now and he is managing that business. >> I think you and your attorney need to sit down with the trustee in person and explain to them that we're not going to accept a process by which I end up in business

with my sister. If you continue to push

that agenda, we're going to sue you.

>> Okay. >> I think that's you and your attorney need to sit down with your trustee and explain that because the trustes job, their fiduciary responsibility is not for someone that's not a member of the trust to do good for the family general

manager. That's not his job. He's

violating his fiduciary responsibility.

fiduciary responsibilities to the beneficiaries of the trust which is you and your sister. So what benefits the two of you and when you explain to him that you are not going to accept being pushed into business with your sister that we are going to break this up. Um

you know as a matter of fact there's nothing that keeps him from deeding the 2.4 to you and the four to your sister if and then you deal with the guy.

You don't have to sell the 2.4. You could become the owner of it and you're waiting on the other guy to take five years to buy you out.

>> You could do that.

>> We We could um and I

uh However, my sister is refusing. My

sister wants to make sure that I end up with as little as possible.

>> Honey, that's not up to your sister.

Your sister doesn't have a say in this.

>> I I understand. Um, but because she's the bigger beneficiary, the trustee has explained it to me that if he doesn't follow her wishes as the majority beneficiary, >> he doesn't follow your wishes, he's going to get sued.

>> Okay. >> He needs to understand that. >> Okay. >> Yeah. you it's time for you to take the gloves off and punch some people on the nose here because they these people are just um you know you don't have to be mean about it but you just got to be real tough and just like guys I am let's

start with a baseline here she's a crook and I'm not going to be in business with her so we're not forming an LLC and we're not going to own and operate property together that's not an option if you continue to push that agenda I'm going to sue all of you and we're going to be in court and I'm going to screw up your lives for the next five years and I'm going to have to spend 100,000 bucks in legal fees, but I'm going to do it. Okay? Or we can work

out something where I get my share of the property and go on my merry way.

It's a pretty obvious thing that the 2.4 mathematically lines up with that and she can have the four and I'll have the two and Mr. Trustee, God help you,

you're out of business. You got nothing to do now. It's actually a good deal for them cuz she's legally owed 2.64 out of her share and she's going to take on the 2.4 property. So I >> I would take a loss to get rid of this barrel of fish hooks.

Yes. >> Yeah. I mean, but they're going to gain 240 grand just by going through with this by giving her this other property. So it sounds like it's just vengeance >> and then I may or may not deal with this general manager from the former business and all this stuff.

You don't have to sell it and you want

to work with a guy. That'd be an added thing to make the deal work, right? But if you don't want to work with a guy, you don't even have to do that. So, yeah, I think you need an attorney that has a really um titanium backbone

uh that walks in there and just smiles and says, "Uh, we're going to dance.

Do you want to dance? We don't have to dance, but if you continue to play the music, we're going to dance." and you just kind of have to have these discussions and take all their mythology and their feelings off the table. Uh because I'm threatening you. That's what I, you know, that's where that's where it needs to come down to. I'm coming after you. And uh because otherwise

you're going to end up getting screwed again some more. And you're right. Um

leopards don't change their spots. LLC's

don't protect you from people who are

irresponsible and crooked. Uh it's just a more

fabulous, sophisticated way to get screwed. >> If you can't change people, don't do business with them. >> Yeah. Don't just don't stay, you know, if you know somebody, you know, crocodiles bite, so don't put your hand in their mouth. Hello. It's not hard.

Heat.

Heat.

Heat.

Heat.

Laura is in New York City. Hi Laura, how are you?

>> Very good. Thank you Dave and friends for talking with me.

>> Sure. What's up?

I'm a 58-year-old uh divorced woman with

a $1 and a4 million dollar life insurance policy, whole life insurance policy that I have let lapse.

I can reinstate it.

It would be a hardship and the the $8,000 premiums going forward still

would be a hardship. I guess my question is I'm on the verge of cancelling it and

I will be hit with a $50,000

tax bill. Of course, I understand.

>> Um what should I do?

>> Um the um my accountant confirmed it

>> and the um the insurance guy who sold me

the policy 25 years ago also said,

>> "Well, that I don't trust him cuz he sold you crap." But the um

>> so um the only way you have a taxable

gain on a cash value policy

is if your withdrawal amount uh exceeds

the amount you put into the policy throughout the lifetime of the policy.

Every dollar you put into it forms the basis.

I cannot believe I have that >> you've had a $250,000 gain on this on this policy. I don't believe it.

I have some figures.

>> So what is the cash value and how much did you pay in premiums?

>> Okay, the cash value is 361K

of the gains is uh 169.

So I guess that math we put in >> the gains um >> 192. >> How much did you pay in premiums though?

uh what we put in I I have the well I I

it was $8,000 a year for about 20 25 years. That math should be close to 192

190. >> Yeah. 200 grand. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And so that gives you the 169 gain.

>> All right. >> Yes. >> Um

I >> I'm leaning towards cashing it in.

>> Yeah, I'm gonna cash it in. I'm just I got to tell you that I've been doing this for almost 40 years and I've seen like >> four policies that actually had a gain.

>> I mean I I I'm I'm a gasast that you

actually have a gain >> and so I'm I'm still stuck there.

>> But I'm glad you have a gain.

>> He said it did quite well.

>> Yeah, he said it did quite well, I guess. >> Um well, no, not really. I mean, >> maybe compared to money in the M had put in $200,000 into a mutual fund, you probably have about eight times more money, so it didn't do quite well.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> But um >> Okay. It did do quite well compared to the other crappy sales. Yeah.

>> Um >> Okay. >> Wow. >> So, you need to pay the 8K to reinstate it before you can cash it out >> and keep paying it forever. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. Pay it. I I have to pay the eight grand to to reinstate it. And then I think in August is is the next eight grand. And I I borrow and

>> I I I I think I I I'm coming to the conclusion that the figures you have I think are accurate even though it's very very rare. Um, but uh I want to triple

check the basis numbers and the actual

gain because if they write you a check, the cash surrender value at the time you

cancel the policy is 361. Is that what

you're telling me?

They're going to send you a $361,000 check.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Then if if if 200 is

the basis, then you have 160 gain and yeah, taxes might be approaching 50 grand depending on your situation on the 160 gain. That's possible. But of course, you're going to have 361,000 in your pocket to pay 50. You're going to net. But I I think you can take that if

you live a few years and invest that money and um if you put it in a low

turnover mutual fund, you would have a lot more money and you would have a lot

less taxes >> on a lot more money if you take that even after the $50,000 hit. So, I'm 100% sure I'm doing it anyway, >> but I do want to triple check the numbers, okay?

>> Because here's the thing. Sometimes these whole life companies because they're so freaking scammy that they

will give you a cash value number that's

different than the cash surrender value number.

>> Okay. Oh, so I should double double check. >> Yeah. So, if you don't get a $361,000

check that you can cash and put that number into your bank account, then these numbers are wrong. Okay.

Okay. If if >> Okay. So, you're saying 360?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, you said 361 is your cash value number that you're going to get if you cancel out. >> Yes. >> Okay. If that's true, then these numbers then this cash is then you got a $50,000 tax bill based on the numbers you gave me. I don't disagree and I would do it anyway and I would cash it out and I would take the remaining $310,000 and after taxes and I would invest that well and I would be glad to be rid of these people. But I'm still afraid that

they're going to come back and say, "Well, that's your cash value number, but your cash surrender number that

we're actually going to send you a check for isn't that much." >> Yeah, >> I'm afraid. But I hope I'm wrong. I hope you have to pay taxes because you get

361,000. That would be a better deal for you. >> Yeah. This this final receipt of this tax bill is just one final nail in the coffin. >> Let's recap here. All right. Number one, this is a very rare situation.

Number two, when you hear people say these dumb things on TikTok in particular, it's come back again that, oh, well, cash value is tax-free investing.

Did you guys hear taxree? I didn't hear taxree. Did you hear tax? I didn't hear taxree. >> A lot of taxes there. >> Did you hear tax free? I heard lots of taxes, >> big taxes. >> Like, oh, you can borrow against it.

It's amazing. >> That's what the wealthy people do. >> Yeah. Well, wealthy people were sitting in New York City calling me saying, "I don't want to do this anymore." >> I was going to calculate to see if she had just invested that instead of putting in this policy what it could be.

>> A year, 666 a month for 25 years,

starting from zero. You're talking on the low end 800 grand on the You're talking a million bucks at 11% return.

So, she missed out on um $640,000

>> because this is that bad a product.

>> That's big ouchie. So, when he said, >> but when they say there's no taxes, >> just remember this call.

>> Okay. >> The only way there's no taxes is if you don't make any money.

>> That's true. >> That's the way there's no taxes or if you borrow money because borrowed money is not taxable. Well, you don't get taxed if you go to the bank and borrow $100,000. You don't have to count that as income.

It's borrowed money. And if you borrow your own money, even because you borrow cash, borrow against your own cash value, which is borrowing your own money, paying them interest to borrow your own money, >> which makes sense. >> And you don't have taxes, but you did pay interest. And you do look kind of stupid.

>> But then you use after tax money to pay it back.

>> Oh, there's that. Which is kind of like paying taxes.

>> Ding, ding, the $8,000 thing, but you could have had a million. Instead, you got 361.

And oh, by the way, if that was in a good mutual fund, it'd be taxed at uh capital gains rate, not ordinary income.

This is taxed at ordinary income.

These people should be ashamed of

themselves that sell this stuff.

>> $8,000 a year for 25 years. That's some

brutal math. >> Should have been a million and it's 361.

So, can you Well, our calculator, it doesn't run backwards and allow you to calculate the rate of return she got. I think it's about a 3% rate of return.

>> Oh, I could probably calculate that.

>> Can you put in the end number? >> 3% is about 300 grand. So, 3 and 12 is

318. >> Pretty close. Look at me. >> We're at about It's closer to >> three and a half%. She made three and a half% on her money. >> About 4.3 >> for a 25-y year investment. She made three and a half% on her money. So, anyone that's in the insurance business that wants to sell you an investment, tell them to stick to insurance because their investments suck. Complex does not mean better. It

just means a bigger commission for the person selling. >> She made 3 and 12% on her money.

>> I want to know how rich the guy is that sold it to her. Go look at the house he's living in. You paid for it.

Wow.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Aaron is

with us in Canada. Hi Erin. How are you?

>> I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Um I'm calling because my late boyfriend

died about four years ago and with his

family was very supportive. Um and I wound up inheriting all of his asset.

And since then, I have maintained his tradition of gifting each of his nieces and nephews a cash fund for educational experiences every year. But I've recently gotten engaged and my new fiance does not think it is appropriate for me to continue doing this and I feel

stuck with um what is the best way to

move forward. >> How did you end up uh inheriting the assets? Where did he have a will?

>> So he did not have a will. Um I was listed as his beneficiary on his life insurance but uh we were together and

living we were together about eight years. So we did qualify as common law partners.

>> And so the courts the courts awarded you the assets then? >> The courts awarded me the assets and I essentially um the last four years of our relationship I had been in school and he'd really been financially supporting both of us. >> Yeah. So I had gone to his parents and I >> So it was the whole situation was treated as if you were married.

>> Yes. Okay. >> Um but I had gone to his family and I said I don't feel entitled to all of this. So let's figure out how to share it between siblings and and his parents.

And they had said um no we feel very strongly that Cameron would want you to have all of it and we're fine and you keep it. >> Okay. And how much how much is all of this?

>> Uh between the life insurance and the house and his savings and pension payout, it wound up being about 1.6 million, a little less.

>> Okay. And how much do you gift to the children?

>> It's $1,000 a year. Um and there are

three nieces and nephews, but there's a fourth on the way. And my intention, you

know, right after Cameron had died was he he used to give them 300 a year, but I decided I'm going to do a thousand a year um until they're 18 and then, you

know, a nice college graduation gift.

And then, you know, over 18 years then with four, it will come up to about $80,000 total.

>> Okay. So, you inherited a bunch of money, a over a million dollars

>> as a common law wife from your ex,

and you were in in a relationship with him for eight years. And so, his family

is still, you know, you're still

emotionally attached to his family, which is logical.

If we just pretend, let's just pretend, let's just change the numbers, change the scenario very slightly and say you were a widow that you were married.

>> Mhm. >> Okay, let's just change the discussion and say that cuz that's how the law is treating this. Okay. And how his family

treated it for that matter. And you said, okay, you know, my husband who passed away eight years ago has three

kids, three ne nieces and nephews. It meant a lot. He used to give him $300. I give him a,000. So, it's $3,000 or 4,000

with the new baby on the way a year out of 1.6 million.

>> Exactly. >> Whoopee. Who cares? >> The interest in the savings. >> Why is this inappropriate?

>> So, he So, my new fiance um he

comes from a very large family. He is

one of seven kids and he feels that it's not appropriate for me to prioritize my

late partner's family over his. So he thinks it is most appropriate for me to stop gifting this money or to gift an

even amount to his nieces.

>> I don't think it's about fairness. I don't think I think he doesn't like the emotional attachment.

If this was a boyfriend you broke up with, I would probably agree with him.

>> Mhm. >> But he died.

>> Yeah.

Yeah. >> How old is your fiance?

>> 32. >> It's kind of an immature approach.

I mean, why why can you not just stand back and say this lady comes >> this lady in that I'm dating that I'm going to marry is comes with she's a package and a package includes her past

just like my package includes my past

and her past includes um 4,000 out of

1.6 million which is irrelevant.

>> Yeah. >> It's a it's buying a you're buying a biscuit. I mean, it's not even it's not even a it's not like you're giving a high percentage or something. If you were giving them a h 100,000 a year or something, I might go, "Whoa, wait a minute." But I mean, it's an irrelevant amount of money. And >> yeah, it's just meant to be summer camp, you know, and dance classes. Um, but I think like he's met my late partner's

family and and he knows I see them every summer and he's always been very supportive, but I think he comes from a family that does not $1,000 is is realistically kind of a drop in the bucket to my late partner's family, but that amount for his nieces and nephews would be more substantial.

>> That's irrelevant.

>> Mhm.

For him to ask you to do that is inappropriate.

>> Okay, >> that's what's inappropriate.

Not you giving the other kids money. For him to dare to feel entitled for his

family because his family's poor

>> that they should be getting some of your money.

That's inappropriate.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I I the way you've presented this, maybe we left something out or maybe we didn't understand something, but the way you presented this does not leave your fiance in a very good light.

>> Yeah, I think we need to grow here and get some maturity and go, okay, this money was meant for this. She's carrying out the wishes and tradition over here.

This is not clinging to some past. You

clearly love him. He loves you.

>> You know, even if it was just weird or awkward, it's not that much money. It's

not a $100,000. >> I'm not going to pick a fight with my wife over this, you know. I'm I'm I mean, there there's a few things I might pick a fight, you know, over money. Yeah. And it might be over a small amount, but this is

>> and then the argument is a a false

narrative that somehow his family >> is entitled to >> is they're not even in this discussion.

>> The 1.6 million is hers. It's not his families.

Um, >> I would look at that as a blessing. Like what a legacy this guy left to my now fiance.

>> Yeah. >> And how it set her up. >> And you know, you're going to be marrying a millionaire.

>> Exactly.

So, I'm not going to focus on this little speck over here.

>> See, him wanting him being concerned about his extended family, not he didn't want it for himself. He wasn't being selfish in that regard. Is the very reason I talk about having a prenup

>> in situations like >> in situations where there's extreme difference in net worth like she's got a million six she needs a prenup so that his family doesn't think or he doesn't think his family >> they don't come after her. >> Exactly. >> Saying well they deserve a pile of money too. >> Yeah. Sorry. We have a prenup. Yeah.

Let's go ahead and state outside. Go ahead and state up front. Your family gets nada nothing. And if you leave, you

get nothing. This is the prenup, >> you know. So, um, you know, or if I kick you out, you get nothing, you know. So, yeah, that because of it exposes the

crazy weirdness. Yeah. The actual inappropriate one is him. That's the strange part of the call. Hm.

Interesting.

Hey,

Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw.

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Might not be in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Adam in Minnesota. I have no consumer debt.

$125,000 cash in savings and a paid off home.

Friends have advised me that I need to take out loans and buy real estate in order to have deductibles to reduce my future tax exposure. Is that a wise reason to get into real estate investing?

I almost made it through without laughing. No, that is not a wise reason to get into real estate investing for the deductibles.

>> Deductions. >> Oh gosh, these the old deductibles.

>> Yeah. So, you want to explain why?

>> Well, I'm worried your friends have watched too much Tik Tok. Uh, I don't know what you're talking about with future tax exposure. I mean, you have no debt, you have a paid off home, and so if they're telling you to try to have more write offs essentially to lower your tax bill, that's a really stupid reason to go into a bunch of debt and leverage yourself. >> Yeah. So, there's two ways that real estate can create a tax deduction. One is you can depreciate it.

uh the capital asset portion of it, not the dirt, but the improvements can be depreciated. Um, and that just lowers

your basis and you get taxed later when you sell the investment property, but you you you avoid taxes on that. That's

good. Nothing wrong with that. I do that. Um, the other way is to do what

your friends are suggesting, which is to take out a loan for the write- off. Now,

the way a loan works for a write- off is if you pay out in a year $20,000 in

interest, you can deduct that interest

on a rental property as a business

expense. So, it lowers your taxable

income is what a tax deduction does. It lowers your taxable income by $20,000,

which means you do not pay taxes on $20,000 of your income because you gave the $20,000 to the bank. Now, let's net

that out, though. A $20,000 tax deduction lowers your income. Let's say you made $100,000. So, now you're only going to be taxed on 80,000.

So, what it actually saves you is not

$20,000. It actually saves you the taxes

on $20,000.

So if you're in a 25% tax bracket, as an

example, make the math easy. 25% of 20,000 is $5,000. So a $20,000 tax

deduction saves you $5,000 in taxes.

Now, here's the problem.

You gave the bank $20,000

>> to keep from giving the government $5,000.

So we literally we stepped over a dollar to pick up a quarter. >> Exactly. So you don't give the bank $20,000 to keep from giving the government five. >> And that's not factoring in all the risk. >> That's what your friends are doing.

>> We haven't even talked about the leverage, the loan, >> the risk, >> the tenants, are they paying? Is it more than the mortgage? There's a whole lot of other variables here. Now, there's simply that you're going to trade 20,000 for 5,000 >> in order to do what your friends are suggesting. So, moral of the story is

don't take financial advice from your broke friends. They're stupid.

That's where this comes from. >> That's it. Jaden is in Miami. Hi, Jaden.

How are you? >> How you guys doing? I'm doing well. >> Good. How can we help?

>> Yeah. So, I have a question about uh acquiring a business and I just want to know if it's a good idea to do it.

>> Okay. >> Um >> so, it's a it's a barber shop and I'm currently a barber and I just want to know if it's a good idea to get one. It's an established barber shop, correct? >> Okay. And um what what does it profit?

What's the net profit on the business?

>> Um right now monthly it's about there's nine employees and they pay each a,000.

So, it's around like 9,000 >> and there's four chairs that are empty.

>> Mhm. So, there's space to put in 13 people full. >> Yeah. But there's not there now. So, and they're wanting I assume they're wanting you to buy this business. Correct.

>> Yes. Correct. Correct. I'm going >> What are they asking for it?

>> Uh 55 or 60? 50. I'm I'm leaning more towards 55. And he's coming down towards that number. >> $55,000.

>> Yes. Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, it's bringing in a gross revenue of $9,000 a month, correct?

>> Yes, sir. >> It's 108 per year, >> right? And so what is the profit on that? I mean, I assume you have rent.

>> Yeah, the rent right now with everything included, utilities at the end of it, it's 4,000.

>> So I'll be profiting around 5,000 to say if it's a bit lower. If I add in more things like utilities and other things that I'll buy for the barber shop, which would be another >> I want to talk about him that's operating it today.

>> Yeah. >> His expenses are rent.

>> 9,000 minus rent is 5,000, right? What

other that include that that includes his utilities and stuff. What other expenses does he have?

>> Well, he has the the Well, I guess he told me the Wi-Fi, which the cable and stuff, he does buy waters, like uh little waters or snacks for the vending machine there. So, because the the rent itself is 3500.

>> Mhm.

>> But I put in an extra thousand. So, if it would make 40, let's say 4,500 total

with including buying the waters, buying extra snacks for the vending machines and keeping everything in order. >> Mhm.

Okay. Which would mean that he's got a profit of about 55 or 60,000 a year.

Does that sound right? >> Yeah. Yeah, it does.

>> And he only wants 55 or 60 for the whole thing. >> Yeah. I just I was just wondering because I do have some some debts at the moment and I just was wondering if it would be a good idea because I I currently am a barber right now myself.

How much do you make on your own?

>> I make around like 6,000 a month.

>> Mhm. Good for you. Okay. Are you one of

the chairs?

>> Um well, right at my at that barber shop. I'm not currently at that barber shop. I'm at a different location. >> Okay. >> So, I would be buying it from him.

>> Is he one of the barbers there?

>> No, he he is not one of the barbers there. Right now, since he's he's moving out the country, so he's trying to sell it. >> And right now, he has one of the barbers. Well, there's 10 in there, but one of them doesn't pay rent because he's the one managing.

>> Okay.

>> How much debt do you have? >> Pay rent. >> I have around uh 24,000 and that's

including I'm still in school. That's the student loans and stuff.

>> What are you studying in school?

>> Um finance.

>> What are you going to do with your life?

>> Well, uh I want to stay within the barber industry. That's why I want to kind of acquire this barber shop because eventually I do want to segue into the finance industry.

>> But you would just do like he did. Then you be an absentee owner.

>> Correct.

>> How much school do you have left?

>> Uh I have about a year and a half left.

>> Mhm.

>> When is he moving out of the country?

When does this deal need to be done?

>> Oh, no. He he he already is moved out.

That's the thing. I I've I

let me tell you what's running through my mind. The deal is not a bad deal.

>> Number one, you don't have $55,000 cash.

That makes the deal difficult. We'd have to figure out a weird way to structure it. We could probably do that here for a minute. Okay. >> Um but here's the um but but it might be

a bad deal for you even though the deal is not a bad deal.

And it might be a bad deal for you because it might cause you to take your eye off the ball of what winning really looks like. So 5 years from today, what winning really looks like as you described it to me is you graduate and you have a career in finance >> and um you might invest in a barber shop at that time, but your intention is not to be your primary income and career is

not to be the owner or operator or hair

cutting guy in the barber shop.

>> Correct. >> You really don't have any intention to do anything with this. this just came upon you because you're doing this right now as a side hustle to get through school. >> Well, I would at first I thought that but barbering is like a passion of mine but so is finance.

But it's just that >> but that's my point. See that that's exactly the thing.

So, I'm afraid it's a distraction, even though it's not really a bad deal. If you wanted to do the deal the way you could structure it would be I'll give you 100% of the net profit for one year

and I and I will operate a chair and I get to keep what I make on my chair and 100% of the net profit will do the books. I'll give you that for one year and then the barberh shop is mine. And that way you don't have to come out of any cash and doesn't affect your get out of debt plan. But I'm afraid it's going to distract you.

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Lisa is with us in Tennessee. Hi, Lisa.

How are you? >> Oh, I'm good Dave, thank you. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

>> Um, I have a dilemma here. I'm wondering

if I should give up my late husband's

pension from the fire department to get remarried. Um, I'm worried about financial security if it doesn't work out.

>> Okay. Um, so, uh, how old are you?

>> We're both 69.

>> Okay. And >> and I make about 8 to 900 more a month than he does. My income is >> So what do you make? Oh, not counting not counting the pension. What do you make?

>> Social Security, which is $1,000.69.

That's it. >> So So you you you haven't worked. You've been living off the pension.

>> Yes. Yes.

>> How long's he been gone?

>> Two and a half years. >> I'm sorry. >> Thank you. >> How long you been dating?

>> Uh about a year.

and it's starting to get more serious on my end. He's all he's been pretty serious, but um >> what does he make?

>> He makes about

4,800 a month. He has like 3,300 from

social security, 1,500 from his retirement. But he has a truck payment

and he owes about 100 grand on his house. I'm debtree. I own my house, my

car. I don't have any credit card bills.

I've got money in the bank. I got IRA, a mutual fund.

How much money in the bank? How how much IRA and mutual fund?

>> Well, not a whole lot. I've got about 40,000 in savings in the bank and

129,000 in an IRA and about 30,000 in a

mutual fund. >> Okay. How much how much is the pension?

The gross is 54, but the net I take home 4,600. >> Wow. >> Plus social security.

>> Huge.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, I I I see your pause. I agree with

your um hesitation.

I'm trying to think how to

um 100% of the time I'm going to get married and money's not going to keep me from it. Okay. But I need to be wise and I

think that's what's giving you pause. I want to wise means I need to be very very sure of this guy. Uh wise means I

need to be sure of this guy's plan to quit borrowing money, get out of debt, and build wealth.

get out of the debt business, okay?

Because you're out of it. Um, wise means

uh maybe even a prenup

that says you get something

in the event uh to offset the fact that you gave up the pension cuz you know, you're married three years, you get a divorce, you can't go back and get the pension. >> So, you need you need you would need to take a chunk of his hide with you.

That's true. That's one way of putting it. >> Yeah. That's the way I >> Otherwise, there's just too much risk. >> Yeah. Because it's $50,000 a year income, >> which is the equivalent of a half million dollar investment

that you're giving up. Um, but I always

would tell you to go live your life and be married. Um, and I think your ex, you know, your your first husband would probably tell you live your life and be married. Don't let money stand in the way of a high quality life and relationship. Right? I would not, you know, I don't want to have that as my principle or my guiding light. Um,

>> so yeah, I I want >> to do enough premarriage counseling and discussion and a length of engagement that I'm 100% comfortable. A B, that

would include us getting on the same page with money, which it means he's getting out of debt. C, I want a

million-doll life insurance policy on him.

Oh, okay. >> Doesn't cost that much if he's healthy.

Does he smoke? Is he overweight?

>> No. No, he's very he's very very

healthy. >> Okay. If he then it won't cost a lot.

Even at 59, it'll be you'll be surprised. Go to Xander Insurance. You'll be surprised how inexpensive a million dollars can be. Buy like a 10-year policy or something. Um, and then C, and this is the or D, this is the last one, and I don't know how to do this one. Um, but I really would want

to come away from a, you know, maybe a

prenup that uh faded away that if in

year one it'd be a lot, you know, you

would end up getting his house, year two, you would end up getting less, year three, you'd get less, year four you get less, and so on to where after five years you maybe didn't get anything, right? But if if this thing goes in and

you've been scammed somehow and you gave up $50,000 a year, um I would want you

to come away from it, uh leaving him

wishing he didn't do this.

>> Well, let me ask you this. My house is paid for and if he moves into my home and he sells his home for say $400,000,

where does that money go? that that that's a money that could be parked into an investment and have your name on it in the event something goes bad. That could be your prenup thing.

>> Okay? >> Because that it's not enough, but it's at least enough to somewhat offset this.

I don't I I don't think we can solve 100% for um this. The way you solve for it is the length of engagement to where you get super comfortable. detailed in-depth premarriage counseling where you get super comfortable and agreement and alignment on no more debt where you get super comfortable and then a life insurance policy and then u you know

kind of a a prenup lean on and I don't

usually do this kind of stuff but I just I'm worried about you and if I'm trying to think if I was on if he called in and said well my fiance wants to do this cuz she's given this up would I tell him to not marry you if he

called in with this and I might I'm kind of fighting against myself here a little bit but um >> it would feel different if it was >> going the other way. Yeah, if it was going the other way. But if I'm just designing this with you in mind only which is not a good design. Um I I you

know I'm going to tie up something of

his like the equity from this house in a mutual fund sitting there for the first five years of your marriage and then it's released or something like that.

You see what I'm doing?

>> Yes. And why the million-dollar left?

Just in case he dies and I I get the the >> Exactly. We're going to put you right back where you were, but a little better.

>> Okay. And my daughters are on after my husband died. Um my I put both my daughters That probably wasn't smart, but on the deed of my house. I thought about putting it in a trust, but so if he moves in here and we're married 10 years, he doesn't get anything. The house goes to my daughters. I'm not even sure how all that works. It's up to you.

You can set it up in a will and a trust and you need to do that, too. So, you guys need to sit down with an attorney and have wills drawn and have a prenup drawn and work through this. And you need to sit down with some pre-marriage counseling. This is complicated.

>> It is, >> but um you know, after 10 years, who do you want the house to go to?

Your 10year husband or to your kids? I don't think either one's evil. I'd hate to throw him in the street so your kids got a house they didn't need, >> right? But >> maybe he could live here until until he died. I don't know. >> Yeah. But if he's healthy, that could be a long relationship, man.

>> He's pretty healthy. >> We both are, actually. >> Yeah. I probably wouldn't do that. I'd probably say you get to live here a certain number of years and then you have to move.

>> Okay. >> So, it's not the rug's not jerked out from under him, so to speak, >> and your daughters your daughters don't get all like, you know, kind of thing going. So, >> but then his money, the sale from his house should go, >> it should go to him after a period of time.

>> Okay. >> But if he if he took off in the first 3 years to offset what you're giving up is

what I'm trying to figure out. You see, >> yeah, >> you're giving up a lifeline. So, we need to make sure there's another line. >> I'm not usually there's most the time I'm not a prenup guy. Um I'm not going to go that way. >> Twice on the show. You recommended it.

Look at that. >> Look at me. Well, the one was was consistent cuz it's a million six versus nothing. >> And this one is not that. It's just a >> just trying to protect her. Now, what I tell him to do that is, you know, he's got to be sure she's worth this.

>> That's true. >> Cuz he's asking her to give this up >> and he's got to pledge some a dowy to cover this. That's what compromise. I probably would tell him to do it.

Listen, your home is your most expensive asset, and now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money. But in this whackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner. Someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a

Ramsay trusted real estate agent comes in. To find one near you, go to ramseysolutions.com/agent.

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Our scripture of the day is Exodus 15:13. In your unfailing love, you will

lead the people you have redeemed. In your strength, you will guide them to your holy dwelling. Simon Synynic said, "The joy of leadership comes from seeing others achieve more than they thought they were capable of." Beth is in Wilmington, Delaware. Hi, Beth. How are you? I'm good. How are you guys?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I'm trying to learn about retirement, um, planning because nobody's ever taught me. I I don't really have a mom or a dad like a personal person to go to. Um, I don't

know anything about accounts, investing, long-term savings. I want to make smart financial decisions, but I honestly don't know where to start. Um, I didn't know if maybe you could possibly help me. >> Sure. you call just the show. Well, I'm proud of you for going, hey, I'm 38.

It's not too late for me to build wealth. And a part of that is is setting the foundation. So, we teach a process called the baby steps. And that involves getting out of debt, having an emergency fund, paying for the past so that you can then build for the future with all this margin because that's the main reason people don't invest. Number one, it's they're scared. They don't understand it. And number two is they don't have the money to do it. So, where are you at on this financial journey?

Okay. So, three years ago, we ch f filed for a chapter 13 bankruptcy. So, we no longer have any debt. Um because of my medical, we sold our home. We now no longer have a mortgage. We paid for a brand new well, not brand new, close to brand new home. So, we have no mortgage.

Currently, I have maybe less than $3,000 in medical debt. It's new since then. Um

we make $157,000 a year. I make about 75. He makes about

82.90 depending, you know, how much overtime he has. We don't have any credit cards. Um, so that's kind of where we are financially.

>> Any money saved at all?

>> That's the problem. That's where we keep going. Where are we going wrong? We have no money saved right now. Currently, if I look at my bank account, we have $48.

>> That's a budgeting problem. And so, we we have an app called Every Dollar that we will gift to you, the premium versions. You connect your bank accounts and you need to start making a plan for every dollar cuz you guys don't have an income problem. You got a spending problem.

>> Yeah. >> So, when you do that budget, it'll show you pretty quick where all your money's going when you start to list out every line item compared to your income.

>> Um, yeah, you're about right. And I also get bonuses. I get about $2,000 in bonuses at the end of the month. Depending.

>> Yeah, >> depending. >> So, I think you you open that app after you get off. We're going to give it to you and you sit down with your husband tonight, turn off the television, all distractions, >> and then say, "All right, let's start looking at June. We're right here at the 1st of June.

Let's say, all right, June's income is here.

And when every dollar is assigned for $9,000, you're going to look down and go, "Where are we spending all this money?" Cuz you're going to have trouble finding it all cuz there's a lot of waste in disorganization and in impulse.

And when you don't have a plan to guide you that you stick to, you have disorganization and impulse.

>> And so, you know, you're going to look down and see what you spend on Amazon and gag. You're going to look down and see what you spend on restaurants and go, "Oh my god, no wonder we have no money." And you're going to look down and spend on whatever. So, you don't have a car payment. You don't have a student loan. You don't have any debt except this little $3,000 debt.

>> That That's the other thing. Okay. So, no, I don't have student loans. Thank the Lord. Um I do have a car payment debt, which is $900 a month. Um it's about $61,000 in total. I have been paying on that since 2023.

>> That would be a debt.

>> Yes. Yes, that is a debt. I'm sorry.

See, my mom and dad never taught me any of this. >> That's okay. >> Absolutely nothing. >> That's all right.

But I mean, when you when you owe somebody a payment, you got debt. >> Yeah. Yep. >> So, I do have I have that.

And then we do have leasing. We lease the grounds that the home is on, if that makes sense. >> Mhm. >> Um, but it comes with sewer.

It comes with trash removal and a couple of other things. And it's less than a,000. Our mortgage alone was like $1,200 and climbing. >> Mhm.

>> Because of tax raising. So, >> So, are you in a mobile home? the modular. Yes.

home, so it's newer. It's not old, but Yeah. >> And did you borrow money to buy that?

>> No. So, here's the catch. The house that we had prior to this, we bought for $194,000.

We set for 5 years, maybe six. I sold it

for $322,000,

which netted me over $120,000.

>> Mhm. about. So, we took that after, you know,

all the background noise, you know, everybody we had to pay.

>> I had about $116,000 that I could put towards this and I paid it. I have no mortgage now. >> Mhm. But it's going down in value

>> pretty much. That's the sucky part about it. But the the hooker is in the next

two years, I have a decent lump sum that's coming in. We're netting anywhere between 100. >> That's independent of something going down in value. Do you get that whether you bought something that goes down in value or not?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So, we want to limit the time we own this modular home.

>> That's the other problem. We can't limit it. So, we we can't even climb out of

trying to get a credit card or anything at this time. We're year three obviously, like I said, on the bankruptcy. So, we're trying to build something like a credit. At least my husband. >> No, you don't need credit right now. You don't need to build credit. You've been through a bankruptcy. uh you you I I

would start talking about how we sell this even if we end up renting something. I would rather you be a renter than owning a thing that's going down in value that's this large cuz this 100,000 is going to turn into 30,000 in about 20 minutes. And I don't want that to happen. So need to start talking about that. We need to start talking about how we're going to get rid of this car debt, like sell it. Um we need to

talk about how we're going to get in control with the money we have coming in. And then you're going to see that you're debtree except for the home or the rental. And we're going to build an emergency fund. And uh then you can start talking about your long-term investing. And we'll walk with you through every bit of that. We can show you every bit of that. But let's start with the basics. And the basics are let's get out of debt on a plan and build an emergency fund and not own a

$100,000 item that's going down in value or a $60,000 item that's going down in value that has debt on it. That would be the car. So, these are the things where you got to start. These are big moves and after all you've been through, you know, you were kind of thrashing about trying to find some footing and uh you just grabbed a slip slippery rock instead of a good one to step on.

That's the problem. So, hang on. We'll give you every dollar. Also send you a copy of the book uh uh the total money makeover and a copy of George's book.

>> Yeah, but it's not too late. I just crunch the numbers for even if it takes them a year to figure all this out, from 39 to 64, 25 years of investing 15% of

their amazing income, they'd have $3 million. So I think we can retire with

that kind of money. You can still build. >> So the future sounds like this. In the if in the next three years you sell the modular home, rent a little bit, pile up some money, um, and part purchase a home

that you then later get paid off. You get rid of all your debt, including your car, and you start living on purpose with your money and build an emergency fund. 3 years from now, you start putting 15% of your income away. Then um

at uh in just a few years you're going to have $3 million in your 60s.

>> Yeah. And the most basic financial literacy and this is something you've done for 35 years is this. Don't owe people money. Increase your income. Live on less than you make. And invest the difference. That's it. It's about three

sentences. If you just do that, you will be unbelievably wealthy and have a great life. >> And if you tell people that over and over and over for 35 years, people will call you genius.

>> You're a genius, Dave. You're a genius.

>> Well, the hard part is doing it. It's easy to say it. It's fun. But you always say, you know, personal finances, it's 80% behavior. It's 20% head knowledge.

>> You know what to do, but doing it is a pain in the >> She could have Googled how to get out of debt. The hard part is doing it.

>> That's the tough one. And so >> she might have put her on the show, but yeah, >> maybe she found us that way. Could have been. >> If our SEO is working well there, >> I don't think that's a thing anymore. George, >> they got rid of that with AI now. >> Yeah, I don't think >> new acronyms. >> I think there's been SEO in a while. How How could you be that, Barbara? >> Now I'm the boomer. >> Who knew? >> I can't win. >> An aging millennial.

>> Oh gosh. >> Oh my gosh. >> I'm getting old. >> Yeah, but we did take two different hair

calls on the show today.

>> I'm glad I was here for it. >> Yeah. Me with none and you with perfect.

Who knew? That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 55. Finance Hacks Won’t Save You, Habits Will | March 12, 2026


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Normal is broken and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studios, this is the Ramsey show. George

Kamel Ramsey, personality co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour and number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Sarah is in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? Um so, I'm considering leaving my husband, um but I feel like I'm financially trapped um with like the amount of debt that we have. I just feel like I I'm not able to leave uh with my daughter.

Okay. What happened in your marriage, hon?

Uh we've been married for about 13 years and it's just been a lot of verbal abuse and um over the last 5 years since we've had our daughter, I just kind of started realizing that it's not something I want her to be in um and grow seeing that

type of um treatment. So, I just am at

this point where I'm you know, trying to look at my options right now and um you know, we've done couple's therapy and it's just doesn't seem like it's kind of clicking with him.

Um I just kind of feel like I'm at my wit's end with it. So. Mhm. I'm sorry.

And how many kids you got?

We have one. What age?

Uh she is four. Wow.

Well, um you know, obviously we're going to be a proponent for anybody to do anything they can to try to stay together, but not in an abusive situation without some traction on that. So, I certainly understand where you are.

A friend of mine that does divorce recovery counseling has always told me for the last 30 years that divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction.

So, this is now about incomes and assets

and liabilities.

So, what is your income?

Um so, my income is approximately 56,000

a year. Okay. Can you live on that as a single person?

Yes. >> Um in our area. Yes. Yes, you can. Okay.

And um you said there's debt that makes you feel like you're trapped. How much debt do you guys have?

Um so, besides our house, uh my husband has a camper loan, his truck loan, and a four-wheeler loan. And um then we have

about I think 12,000 in credit card

debt. And I have 27,000 in student loan debt. Mhm. Okay. All right. And uh what's the what's the home worth?

Uh in our area, homes that are equivalent to ours are going about 35,000.

Um 35,000 dollars?

I'm sorry, 235,000.

>> Okay. I feel better now. Okay.

I thought you were in the camper for a minute. Okay. And uh okay, 235,000. And what do you owe on it? Uh we owe about 179,000.

Okay. So, there's a little bit of equity there. Okay. I don't know how divorce works in um Wisconsin necessarily. But obviously, your next step is to just gather information. Information always uh relieves anxiety. The unknown it creates more anxiety than a known bad thing.

If we got bad news and it's clear, that's less anxiety than unknown. Then

this is a boogeyman in the closet thing.

So, you need to sit down with an attorney and find out exactly how this is probably going to go down. I mean, a good divorce attorney can tell you in 30 minutes this is probably how this is going to go down. And it could sound like he gets all of the debt with his camper truck and four-wheeler. And they sell the house and the house equity cleans up the debt that is in the on the credit cards and maybe on the student loan.

Um and maybe some of his debt as well. Um and cuz you probably get half the equity each in most cases.

Um I have one through my employer. Um it's a state pension fund. But nobody has a 401k?

Um I believe my husband has a 401k, but he doesn't have much in there right now. Okay. What does he make?

He makes about the same as I do, about 56,000 >> Okay. And then there's child support and then there's alimony. And those are the things those are the variables that if I were you I would want to learn about those things so that, you know, you know what you're facing.

Yeah. And you're probably not as trapped as you think you are. I mean, you go get a one-bedroom apartment or a two-bedroom apartment, sell the house, pay off all the debts, and start over as a single lady making 56.

Yeah. That's not That's not That's not really trapped. Yeah. I felt like I was trapped though just cuz I I mean, I still care about him and I don't want him to be stuck. But at the same time I'm looking at it as like

financially we got into the situation

and I feel like I'm responsible to pay off like the debts and everything. I I don't know why all of those are his toys.

Like I said, a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction.

If you want to get all romantic and start paying stuff you don't owe, that's a different discussion.

Mhm. If you're going to do all that, you probably need to go back to marriage counselor and try to save the marriage.

But what you know, once the decision is made and the switch is flipped, it's every man for himself, you know, and it's not mean. I don't I'm not trying to destroy him in this situation.

Um, but he could sell the four-wheeler, the camper and the truck and be out of debt, too. Hello.

Yep. Okay. So, Do you both are going to be okay on the other side? >> Nobody's trapped here except by decisions to hold on to a bunch of crap you can't afford. That's the only trapping there is. >> And staying in an abusive relationship.

Yeah. That's a worse trap to me.

And so I think those next steps will help you get some clarity on this. Yeah.

And I and I also might change the tone of the um the therapy sessions.

Like if you go sit down with an attorney and you know exactly how good a position you're actually in, then you're coming at this from a little bit more strength and you're going, "Look, I really want this to work, but all of a sudden your body language changes, your voice tone changes because of confidence and because you know you're going to be okay instead of trapped. Because uh

Sarah, what you've told me, you're not trapped. Unless you choose to be trapped. But you can choose that if you want. But you're not. And um

But you know, the a much better outcome is for him to grow up and stop the negative behavior and you guys to sell off all the garbage and get your dadgum life back with no debt. Um and just quit

buying everything in sight, the campers and four-wheelers and toys and trucks and this just sounds like boy boy out of control, little boy out of control buying crap.

And so um I mean, I don't run into a lot of ladies that have bought a camper and a four-wheeler. That's a That's a dude thing. >> Occasionally I do, but generally that would be the guy. They went along with it. >> Yeah, and the pickup to pull the the the truck the the truck to pull the camper with. That's the other thing. So, yeah, and um occasionally I run into some lady and it the whole thing was her idea, but usually she's going to make uh her mistakes in other places.

So, um you know, but you know, like she said, she was participating in the decisions, so she's willing to take responsibility for her part in the >> up for that. She was an accomplice to some of these bad decisions. Yeah. But, I like what you said there that you you need to know the facts cuz those unknowns can be scarier and just you're overwhelmed by everything around you.

You get the facts and you go, "Okay, yeah, we could sell that. Yeah, you know what? That will be split or that won't be in my name." And then you know how to move forward. >> Yeah, it's interesting like cortisol release, stress drug release is way lower on bad news that's clear than on

ambivalent ambivalent not knowing the

unknown. It creates a whole lot more stress.

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Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to our website and use our Ask Ramsey

feature. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's

built and trained on proven Randy Ramsey

principles. So, how if you don't know how AI works, AI is only as good as the data that is entered into it to cause it to think.

And so, what we did is we took thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of this show, all of my books, all of our books, the personalities books, all of the Financial Peace University lessons, and emptied them into a database. And every article And every article that we've written, and it's all in there. And so, AI forms an answer based on all of that, which means that

the answer that this Ask Ramsey will give you is better than you will get here on the show.

We'll have a brain fart, or two, but that thing can't. It can't. It doesn't know how. It's really, really popular.

It's working. It's The only thing I I want them to add a little bit more sass in there. Yeah, the snark factor could be increased.

Maybe we can add that as a dial. You can dial up how much snark you want on it.

Oh, yeah. More or less snark.

>> How direct, how Dave do you want this to be versus Rachel? You know? Woah, now that That's a sacrum, sorry. >> just got personal fast. She's more friendly. I think America can agree on that. >> hey. See what I mean? >> prove it right now.

All right. Check it out for yourself. Ramsey, askramsey@ramseysolutions.com.

Go to the website ramseysolutions.com.

Ask Ramsey's completely free. You'll get your question answered in some version of George or Rachel or Dave or whatever.

I I I'm It's It's way nicer than me, I will say that. That's true. For now, till I get through with it. I'm not done with it. Mike's in Baltimore, Maryland.

Hey Mike, what's up?

Hi, I'm I'm calling um I'm wondering if you have recommend or if you uh would

recommend um cashing out principal in a Roth IRA to pay off debt. Not unless you're bankrupt.

Not unless bankrupt, okay. Yeah.

Because it's going to it's going to cost you millions and millions and millions of dollars in tax-free growth later because you didn't address the real issue. So, how much debt have you got?

What's the problem?

Um we have about um well, we we bought a new house last summer and we used and we

have a HELOC from that at about 50k and we have a a retirement loan at about 28k

um to the 401k. Um I'm trying to take

out the 401k retirement loan first, but

we've been paying that down probably like 4k a month.

Um I'd say Okay, wait a minute. So, you got a 50,000 and a 24,000. What other debt have you got?

Uh we've got a car loan of about uh I don't know, 13k. We've got some credit card debt of maybe I don't know, 15k.

Okay. And then we we've got savings. We we we we did have emergency savings.

>> We have Well, we don't have full emergency savings, but we have about 11k in emergency 11k in savings currently.

Good. And then um our our Roth principle though is um

the question is really about the Roth principle because I I understand. I understand the question and I'm still I'm still telling you no.

I completely understand the question. It's a stupid butt idea. Don't do it.

What's your household income?

We make about 83 uh or sorry, 8,300 about every 2 weeks.

Okay, y'all 27?

No, no. We're we're both about 40. 40?

Okay.

Missed that one. All right. Um so my In doing what we do here, helping people walk out of debt and become wealthy, what is the shortest distance between where you are now and wealth? It is to to become debt-free not by destroying your nest egg that's going to make you wealthy later.

And so that's why I keep coming back to no, I'm not doing that. Um so in listening to you, you're fairly new to our information.

Um And I'll show you what we teach is a process that's very detailed and um and

very intense and dialed in.

Like eyes wide open. So you start with a

thousand dollars in savings only, not counting your retirement. You temporarily stop all retirement and then you go to what we call baby step two and you list your debts smallest to largest and you pay off everything but the house in that order with great focused intensity. Anything you can do to increase income and reduce debt as fast as possible because the sooner you've gotten rid of this 110,000, the sooner you now have flex called you're now have your income to create the uh which is your largest

wealth-building tool.

And right now you've given it all away to all these stupid things you bought that you couldn't afford.

So one of the question I have is um all right, we have you know, pre-tax retirement and that's I would say close to 900,000 at this point. Um but that's where I'm feeling like the Roth I mean I I appreciate the tax-free growth for sure.

Hey Mike. >> tempted to just Mike. Hey Mike. The guy

in your mirror is freaking lazy and

disorganized with his money. That's you.

That's not going to be fixed when you take that money out of that Roth and all of his freaking debt's going to grow back in 5 years because you've never addressed the fact that you all have overspent. You're looking for a quick fix. You're quicking for a shortcut and that is not a good plan.

I would stop adding to your retirement and you've got to address the misbehavior. You don't even know your numbers. Oh, sort of kind of maybe I think is all the language around your numbers. You don't even know where you are. You're just wandering along buying crap. And you you guys are going to have to stop that whether you cash out your 401k or not. >> If you can't afford to live off of what you told us $200,000 in take-home pay I

don't think we can help. >> it was 80. He said 8,300 every 2 weeks.

Oh, I'm sorry. >> I heard. So I'm going, "Dude, you guys make too much to be fooling around with all this debt." Okay. Yeah, that's even worse. And so if those numbers are true, you're right. The behavior is not going to change. You're going to keep robbing that 401k every chance you can get because you guys are living a lifestyle you can't afford. So my hope is to offend you enough to make you look at this.

I love you enough. I want you to get mad at me. That's fine. I'm good with that.

I want to piss you off just a little bit and make you grow up and sit down and go I'm running this thing this company called me incorporated very poorly.

If one of my VPs sat down and used the language about their budget in that one of our profit centers the way you've discussed your home, I would fire his butt for being incompetent.

Okay? You don't know I think I got sort of kind of bull crap. You need to know exactly and you guys need to get focused. You make too much money to be this broke, but y'all have been intellectually lazy in how you've addressed your personal finances. And if you'll if you'll roll up your sleeves and attack this and get get some muscle tone to what you're doing, get some intensity to what you're doing, you can clean up this mess in about a year and a half and not have to mess up everything.

Uh but if you don't, you're going to make a bigger mess later because there's no in between in this discussion.

There's not a There's not a mediocre landscape. Uh cuz you guys have consistently added to the problem and until you stop adding to the problem and being people that do that, you're going to create more messes. That's what it comes down to. Folks out there in the listening land, this is why debt consolidation doesn't work, too.

And this is why when you get an inheritance from your grandmother and you you clean up everything and 4 years later you're right back in the same mess because your habits haven't changed.

Your household processes haven't changed. You've got to address what is wrong with the our systems and our

hearts and our relationship that's caused us to get to that we can run up these debts

with this kind of money. But we feel better because we the junk drawer, we cleaned it up by putting it all in one bucket. And so we hey, look at that. It looks better and feels better except now you still got the same mountain to face and you can't debt snowball it. So debt consolidation is scary cuz makes you think you solved the problem. Yeah, and you didn't change the habits. And so 88% of the time someone takes out a debt consolidation loan, they're back in debt within 5 years.

Nine out of 10 times.

Because the debt is not the problem.

It's the symptom of intellectual laziness, immaturity, um no good systems, uh bad discussions with

or no discussions with my spouse where we're on on same page. It it Debt is the symptom. It's not the problem. And so, when you just address the symptom, expect the problem to stay there, and the symptom will grow back.

It's that simple. If you're going to get uh dandelions out of your yard, you can't just cut them with a lawnmower.

You have to dig them out by the freaking root, or they will grow back.

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Oscar is in Ottawa. Hi Oscar, how are

you? Hi, how are you? Thank you for asking.

Sure. What's up?

Uh well, long story short, I've been dating a a Polish girl for the past 5 months ish. And everything has been going well except for a few small details that are mostly related to

finances. Like since day one, I've been

paying for restaurants, like going out, like activities, snacks, and everything.

And she directly mentioned during our

conversations that this is a part of her her culture, even though she was born in Canada. And uh me I'm Iranian. I was born in Iran, raised there, and I've been here like for a couple years. And I know how Western culture functions.

And I would like to kind of make sense of it. I'm also traditional sort of. But at the same time, I don't see the point of man paying for everything.

Ex- especially in this economy.

And my question is what is your suggestion? What should I do? Is it like a big red flag or is it just something that we can kind of figure it out together?

Hmm.

It's an interesting question.

Um So uh the marriages that I'm aware of that are

high quality, they uh and when we're dating, we're you know, courting to use an old term, an old word. Uh and we're thinking about that leading toward marriage, okay? So, that's why you would ask if this is a red flag or not. Do I want to get involved with this person, right? And so, the marriages that I know that are super that I consider some of the best marriages on the planet that I've been personal witness to are where uh each of the people involved uh make the

relationship about how much they can serve the other person.

Okay. How how much can how good can I be to you? So you, how good I can I be to her? Her, how good can she be to you?

And instead of what am I getting out of this? In other words, I'm adding value to the relationship instead of taking value. If you're a taker rather than a giver kind of a thing.

Um and so I'm I'm I might look at this through that lens and say um yes, the cultural implication is very real.

Um the economic um in this economy, uh you're always going to be able to say in this economy through the rest of your entire life.

You're going to be able to say that from now on. There's always this economy.

There's never going to be one that they're just raining money on you and make stupidity okay. There's no economy that does that. >> Right. And so um there's no this economy that it but it but you know, so how much do I love this

person to the point that I want to serve them and give my life away for them would lead you to not ask this question even.

Okay. Does that make sense?

>> That makes sense. >> Yeah, you're kind of worried about you're kind of worried about if they if there's you know, if this is all I You feel like you're being taken advantage of. >> I'm getting if I'm getting my part of this, yeah. Are you sensing that from her that there's a lot of entitlement and expectation?

Um it's not I I don't I wouldn't say it's it's about expectations. Like she wouldn't like necessarily like force me, "Okay, let's go out. Let's go eat outside or let's just like >> Okay, is she a money hungry gold digger?

I would I say the first one.

She's money hungry?

Yep. Okay. Uh let me put it in in a cultural setting that I can understand and explain and let's see if it extrapolates to your situation. All right, I grew up in the old south. I'm an old southern redneck.

In our world, 100%

the guy pays for everything.

Okay. >> Period. Southern gentleman, we call it.

>> uh chivalry in our world. Honor. Mhm.

Okay? Um but that is a cultural thing. I'll admit that. Okay, that's not necessarily true in every in every uh part around the world from Iran to Polish to uh to to Poland to Canada, okay? And some mix of them between. So, um but that's the world I grew up in.

Now, in my world, what I would be look what I looked for is I I don't want to because I'm willing to pay for everything and that's an act of chivalry, uh it it The last thing I want is a high-maintenance princess that's entitled.

I'm good That's cray-cray and I'm going to avoid that woman like a like the plague.

Okay. >> So, one guy said one guy said, you know, if you if you marry a woman that likes spending money, you better enjoy working a lot.

You know, and so I No, I'm not I'm not getting it I'm not doing that. Just because my I'm going to a an action out

of my cultural upbringing, I'm going to pay for everything, doesn't mean I'm going to be taken advantage of.

Is she ordering the fanciest wine on the menu on the first date?

Filet mignon? >> No, that's not the That's not like that's how it's happening, but then let's say in a couple of months I I was planning to go on a trip with her to uh to Europe. And I was just like we're talking about everything. We set the destination like which cities and blah blah blah.

At the end in the end I was like, "Okay, so let's like talk finance and see who pays what. And she was like in my culture usually man pays the ticket and the hotel and me I can be taking care of like food. Which when I look at it, like ticket and hotel it's going to be like 90 85 to 90% of the whole expense and the food is like You know, I I might I might go ahead and take this a step further then say, okay, what if we were married?

Uh, listen, I would love to pay for everything. No, I'm saying I would ask her that. And if >> Okay. If she still expects to be coddled then you've got a princess on your hand regardless of the cultural issue. A high maintenance princess.

But that's not what it sounds like. It sounds like um, that

you know, I you just got to decide how much of this you're going to pay for.

And I don't know whether that's an old guy thing, a southern thing. I don't know. George, you're you're a Boston guy. >> Yeah. >> for Did you pay for all your dates growing >> it was a little different in the north.

>> Did you pay for you you split dates? You went Dutch? You know, I didn't get a lot of dates back in my day day. But when I did, when I did, I happily paid. I will say that.

I'm just so happy to be here. >> Exactly. I'm just so excited. I don't want to mess this up.

But to his point, he's going, well, I'm planning a trip to Europe. Well, maybe let's not plan a trip to Europe if you're worried about the finances and then bring it up like your idea and then she's like, wow, he's taking me to Europe. And then you're going, well, it's going to cost you two grand. I So I think let's set up the boundaries earlier on and go on less fancy dates

and say, hey, you want to just take a walk in the park? And if she goes, no, I'd rather go out. Well, that's a sign to Dave's point that there is some entitlement there and that she is just wanting to just spend, spend, spend. And I don't know if she's taking advantage of you or not, but I do think it's a red flag to bring up in the relationship before you go any further.

The values are different. Yeah, if you can't get aligned on the handling of money and the value of money in this relationship, that is a red flag for any relationship.

If you can't be in agreement on how we're going to handle money in the future together, we can't be in agreement about how we're going to handle crazy in-laws, we can't be in agreement about religion, and we can't be in agreement about kids, how many to have and how they're whether they're going to run the house or whether we're going to run the house, then the then these are the things that tear a marriage apart.

And the high-quality marriages get aligned on those four things. And so

you're not aligned on that, and the fact that you're not aligned is the red flag.

That's a big red flag. It It just took me a minute to get there.

Uh I'm trying to wander around in the cultural bull crap and figure out what's going on here or what >> culture. >> whether or not we got a princess on the on the line, but I don't know that. I don't hear that in his description of her. I don't hear that about her, but could be.

>> He might need to find a a penny-pinching gal who loves going to the thrift store.

That might be your type. How many hours a day they spend on Instagram? You know, cuz That would be an interesting study.

Spending habits versus >> Oh, we do know that, by the way. The num- the number the number of hours on Instagram is directly attributed to

amount of spending, 100%. Did Rachel Cruze tell you that? Personal experience? >> No, there's data on that. That's That's actually real. But I'm just talking about if you're you know, trying to find happiness in image in uh happiness in, you know, where we go, what we do, what we eat, then you're you're going to be hungry your whole life. >> If you can't just be happy being at home and bored, then you got a problem. If it always has to include spending money.

Exactly. And that that But if you guys cannot work through this and you get comfortable and she gets comfortable, the fact that you're not aligned, Oscar, is the red flag.

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Paul is in San Francisco. Hey, Paul. How are you?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure.

What's up?

So, my question is about retirement planning and specifically retirement accounts, um a 401k. I have a bit of a

unique situation and I, you know, get

a different opinion from everyone I ask about this, so I thought I might call the Ramsey Show.

Um Well, you'll definitely get an opinion.

Yeah, I I thought so. It's It's an interesting one.

Um So, I've done decently well for myself

so far, but this is my first time having

a a 401k.

And I'm wondering if it makes sense for

me to really use the 401k cuz I found

out recently, um you know, someone in my family had been very, very successful and I knew that, you know, eventually I was expecting to probably inherit some of that, but I was able to see uh actually read through the trust recently. And it's a lot, like a lot

more than I expected, and I'm sort of wondering if I can find security in retirement from that potentially, does it make sense for me to not use that 401k and maybe

have that money be more valuable to me now or use a Roth and Roth IRAs, and

A Roth IRA instead of a 401k?

Not necessarily instead. I have a a Roth right now that's it's pretty small, but I'm just saying instead of Okay, how how old are you? trying to retire I'm 21. Oh, okay.

And what do you make a year, sir?

About 330,000.

Wow. What do you do?

in sales Good for you. Well done. Okay.

And how much is in this trust that's supposed to come to you?

So, there are a lot of different people, and not a lot, a handful. I think it's six different beneficiaries in the trust, but it's low to mid eight figures. Um,

so I would think that that's plenty to retire on, especially if that's going to grow over time. I'm sorry, so you're going to receive $100 million?

Your part?

I mean, if you're accounting for how it's going to grow, that might be what it's worth total. I mean, divide that by five, maybe. Oh, divided by five.

Well, that's a lot different. Okay. >> Yeah, and So, you might get you're going to get somewhere between Do you think 10 and 20 million dollars?

I would think so. >> Okay, and about about what How many years out do we think this might be?

Well, I mean, like we said, I'm pretty young. That's a fair way away.

>> years before this person dies and you get your 20 million dollars, dude?

Roughly? Maybe 20. Okay. So, you'd be

like 40 years old. Okay.

All right. So, no, I would not put my life on hold and quit investing and quit building wealth on my own because I might get an inheritance 20 years from now.

Absolutely not.

I would pretend like that's not coming and live my life properly and with discipline and with dignity.

When you save money, it says something about your character and your maturity.

It's not a math thing.

>> And so it's good for you to develop a life that's good for Paul. And if in

addition to that, you get an extra $20 million, well, that puts you in a position to be outrageously generous someday and change your whole family tree in addition to the money that you make because you could easily making 330,000 starting at 21, you should be a multimillionaire by the time this money comes.

Mhm. And if you don't, then you just pissed it away and you're an immature child.

Yeah, no, I I live quite frugally, actually. I have no debt. Well, I mean, there's a lot of options here. There's three things we can do with money. We can spend it and enjoy it, and you should. You can give it and be generous with it, and you should. And you can save and invest it, and you should. All

three are good for your character, they're good for your psyche, they're good for your spiritual walk. All three are good for the math. All three cause you to have a high-quality person and be a person that someone listening would want their daughter to date.

A trust fund baby who put life on hold waiting on an inheritance 20 years from now is not someone I want my daughter to date.

This is not a man with big broad shoulders.

Yeah, that you got to not let that muscle atrophy. And if you start flexing this now and you have that delayed gratification muscle going, the wealth building muscle, then you're going to treat the money differently. If I was handed $20 million that I didn't actually put away and earn, I'm going to treat it differently than money that I socked away for 20 years. And I think that delayed gratification lesson is worth learning.

One definition of maturity is learning is the emotional ability to delay pleasure. That's one of the definitions. And so, yeah, I want that for you not because of the money or the math or not because you're going to need money. You may or may not need money. If this comes through, you're not going to need money.

But, I want it for who you become as a person, as a man, as a woman, if you're out there listening. Who you become while you get out of debt. Who you become while you sacrifice and work extra to clean up a mess. Who you become

in your marriage and in your relationship, what your relationship looks like because we struggled together and we both put our shoulder to the wheel and push together. Who we become is more important than what we what we end up with mathematically.

And so, I don't want you to be atrophied. And um, you know, from lack of use of

your uh of lack of maturity that you grow into. So, no, I I I would pretend like that money's not coming instead of using it as a demotivator.

And if you're so frugal, you're going to have plenty of money left over to max out all retirement accounts and still have an incredible life. Yeah. You're a sharp dude. still enjoy.

I mean, I'm not saying don't spend and enjoy money. We always say do that. And in your case, God, you're 21, you make 300 grand. Gee miny and cricket, I mean, that's amazing.

>> Enjoy some of it. >> you need to but you need to be giving some of it and saving some of it and enjoying some of it. Always be doing all three. Melissa is in Greenville, South Carolina.

Hi, I'm good, thanks. Thank you guys so much for what you do. I listen every day and just feel like I learn so so much.

>> Thanks. How can we help?

Um, so, my husband is in regional sales

um and he drives about 350 to 400 miles for work on his personal vehicle every week. Um, unfortunately, a company car yeah.

Unfortunately, a company car isn't available to him. Um, and up to this point, we've just chosen to manage that by budgeting for a car payment um on a new car in order to keep him in something reliable with minimal maintenance with that kind of mileage. Um, but I'm curious how I know that that's not what you would suggest, but I'm curious, um, just with our situation how you might suggest we avoid that without draining

our savings every few years to buy a car in cash that isn't really going to last the mileage that he puts on it.

Mhm.

Okay. Can we agree that the amount of miles he's putting on the car is absolutely destroying the car's value?

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's worth nothing when he's through with it.

Okay. So, we're taking something and making it worth nothing as a function of his job.

And so, if you're running a business, what you would do is you would buy the least expensive car that would, in quotes, get the job done.

Now, what gets the job done? What does that mean? Well, it means two things for me if I'm in his shoes. Number one, it means reliability. I have to be able to get to the job and get the get the sale made, right? Number two, it has to be reasonably comfortable cuz I live in the stupid thing.

Right. Okay. So, we're not going to put him in a smart car or a Dodge Neon. Okay?

>> 6'3, so that might not be a great idea.

I rest my case, you know. So, yeah, it needs to be reasonably comfortable. But, what people do in your all situation is, instead of buying a $20,000 car that would do all of that and destroying 20,000, they buy a $60,000 car and destroy 60,000.

Mhm. And that's that's not necessary to get the job done. So, I would buy a $20,000 car with an every 2-year replacement plan.

And okay. >> And And I would pay cash for it.

Period. And you would recommend it I

guess my question is about >> breaking up, honey. You got to walk back to wherever you are. Just know that every average The average new car loses 60% of its value in the first 5 years.

>> And hers just loses 60% in the first year. >> Exactly. So, you're better off buying a 6-year-old car for 20 grand and driving that into the ground cuz someone else already prepaid the depreciation. That's the lesson here. Yeah, just you Whatever it is, you're destroying that amount of money. So, destroy the least amount of money possible to get the job done. For me, that's a $20,000 car in this situation, and every 2 years I need $20,000.

So, I need to be setting aside that much every month to replace the stupid car all the time. But, no, I would not be driving something fancy. You don't need eye candy that when you're a road warrior.

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That's

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. George Kamel, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author, is my co-host.

Jacob is in Dallas. Hey Jacob, how are you?

Hey brother. Thanks for taking the call.

Sure, man. What's up?

Uh yeah, so I think I'm in a bit of a unique situation. Do um I had a net worth of north of the seven-figure mark uh around I want to say probably a month ago. Uh yeah, a month and a half ago. Um made some poor decisions, led to a significant downturn in my net worth. Uh down to only everything and trying to just reframe my mindset and like decide the next steps to go from here.

That was pretty vague.

So, you had like a million dollars?

Yeah, I probably had around 1.9 million.

1.9 million.

Okay, and what you do that screwed it up?

Um gambling, lifestyle inflation.

Lifestyle inflation?

Yeah, I mean partying, doing the the whole the whole nine yards.

Okay. So, what did you buy?

Um I mean it was more so just going out, traveling, clubbing, bottles, cars,

Airbnbs. It was um poor decisions and then a lot of gambling. I think uh What kind of gambling? So, what what drug What kind of drugs were you doing?

Um I mean it was more so just like cocaine. Yeah. The the whole nine yards when you're partying. >> like yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So, have you been to rehab yet, hon?

Um I have I have not, no. Um I think

I didn't have a necessarily a drug problem. It was more so just Oh, no, you have a drug problem. There's no question. It It all in It was all in your story. I heard it. You definitely have a drug problem and you definitely have a gambling problem and you definitely have a lot of problems. So, what are we doing to fix the problems?

Um well, I did start going to gambling or going to therapy for gambling specifically. Um that was like the main step. And then uh down cycle on my life, cut back on majority of my expenses.

Just reframing everything. Going from there.

Okay, so what did you or do you do for a living?

Um I did a lot of marketing crypto.

Okay. Are you still doing that?

Um yeah, I just recently stopped after this last hit. Uh lost kind of all motivation. So, do you have a full-time job or are you just playing with crypto as kind of a another form of gambling? And you've made some money doing that.

>> Well, I mean I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I XYZ or XX But I'm also in college, so this was all just a side time thing that was working out really well, I guess.

I'm 20. 20?

Yep.

Okay.

All right, so you um

you chased the rainbow and it didn't bring you happiness. Is that the moral of the story?

Um I yeah, I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I It wasn't um necessarily my fulfillment.

Well, it led you It led you to a a life that was just out of control and not fun. It was It was supposed to be fun, but at the end of the day it just looked like a stupid kid losing all his money and snorting cocaine. When you look back on it, that's got to be what you see.

Yeah, 100%. Um I don't condone any of the actions, nor do I think that it was the smartest decision at the time. So, I'm where I'm going is is that I don't know what drove you to get to that point. Um

but um

Yeah. Okay, so what would I tell

my son if he was 20 years old and called me and was in the exact situation?

It sounds like you need a complete reset of what you think

life is about.

And someone told you that it was about getting a lot of money quickly and easily and that you're smart and that you could do that and then you could go do anything you wanted to do. And so you you The good news is you got hedonism out of your system really early in your life. The bad news is it cost you a couple million dollars to do it.

Um and so um you know, I would take you from Wolf of Wall Street to a monk.

I'd go the other end of the spectrum and just go, "I'm just going to be a boring,

calm, steady guy, which is the opposite of everything you have been." In order to reset your brain and reset your spirit, I'd plug into a good local church and um uh one of the things I had to assess and I kind of smell it here. I'm not sure if I do and you can you can correct me if you want to. I don't care.

Um when I went broke in my 20s, one of

the things I figured out was I wasn't as hot as I thought I was.

It pretty much took my little ego and grounded under a boot.

And uh cuz I I was pretty smart and I was doing some pretty smart um leverage fund things, nothing like you've done.

But um but I mean I I had it going and then when I when I hit the wall and the car just disintegrated in the you know, NASCAR wreck, the engine's up in the stands, right? I mean this thing's just gone. Uh one of the things I had to come to grips with is I wasn't as hot as I thought I was.

And that helped me reset, and I settled way down into a more

psychologically and spiritually healthy rhythm to reset my life, and I think that's what I want for you cuz I like you.

Yeah. Now, I um I think I I wholeheartedly agree. I mean, yeah, during this whole span especially since the last hit, I think I became insanely depressed. I was um definitely going through an episode. Like it was terrible. I mean, I was flying. I was spending like 100K at the club. I'd fly back. Then I'd go gamble like 500,000. At a point I was playing like multiple six-figure hands.

Um like what I see is 1.9. I mean, that was flowing, obviously. I mean, the have wins that I've lost is and I've just lost including my cash flow, but I was very cash flow heavy. Why do you even need money right now as a college kid?

Um I mean, I think Are you in college? I don't necessarily Yeah, I I'm in college. I mean, I don't think it was necessarily about the What are you studying?

Um marketing. Well, I was Yeah, marketing. Okay. You've been going to classes and completing all the assignments?

Um I did until this last year. I think I went off the rails this last year. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, I I um

Yeah, the behaviors got you into the mess. And to get the I would go to the opposite end of the behaviors to create healing.

And so look at every one of the behaviors and what are the roots of each of the behaviors and how can I avoid those? So, one of the things I fell for that you did as well is get rich quick.

And I I thought I'm smart enough, I can do this, I can build wealth quickly and easily. Other people don't know how to do it. I'm quick enough with numbers, I can do this. I can pull this off. And that's what I did not at the scale you Well, actually the scale you did. I had a better net worth than you had. But um at 23. But um but I lost it all because

I built a house of cards.

And um you know, I wasn't playing long ball. Everything was short ball. Everything was just get on base. Just get on base. And there was no infinite game. There was no eternity thought.

There was no thought of uh heaven. There was no thought of other people matter.

Uh it was simply get the thing done. Get the thing done. Turn the deal. Turn the deal. And so, I had to go to the other end of the spectrum when I went broke. And I had the benefit of losing everything and going bankrupt. And I got the opportunity to start over. I met God on the way up, Jacob. I got to know him on the way down.

And you desperately need to get to know him right now. It's your only shot out of this.

So, I'd check into a great church in the area. Start talking to some of the businessmen in that church that love Jesus and let them talk to you about how to reform what a man really is inside of

you.

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Meredith is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi Meredith, how are you?

Hi Mr. Ramsey, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yeah, so my husband and I have two young kids under the age of four.

We currently rent a small duplex for about $785 a month, and we have about $7,000 I'm sorry, $4,000 in savings.

And only debt we have is a credit card, but we pay that off every month like completely almost. We're about to receive a $2.6 million

lawsuit for medical malpractice.

And we didn't grow up with money, so honestly we're kind of scared, and we just want to make sure we're doing the right thing for our family.

So my question to you would be what would be the wisest thing for us to do, and like how how should we handle this?

It's a fabulous question.

I really really like your your spirit and your attitude. Thank you so much.

You are very wise to be scared.

Okay. And because you don't you don't you you know, you're smart enough to know that you don't know how to handle two 2.6 million.

Now Yeah. So a couple of principles are this. Number one, keep doing what you just did.

The Bible says in the multitude of counsel there is safety.

And so you start bringing people into your life to advise you, not to do it for you,

but to teach you to teach you. Okay? And

there's a couple of three people um if you want to write this down, you can or you can go back and watch it or listen to it later when it comes out and hits the podcast. Um but the the the first person you guys need is a financial advisor, someone to help you with your investing. And you can go to ramsaysolutions.com, click on SmartVestor Pro,

and sit down with a couple of those and interview them. Now, what you're doing is you're interviewing someone to that you are comfortable with, you feel good about, they're not intimidating,

instead they have the heart of a teacher.

Anyone in the financial world that does not have the heart of a teacher and instead starts dropping their glasses on the end of their nose and wagging their finger and saying, "You need to do this because I said do it." You should run from them.

Yes, sir. So, your job is to manage this money, not that person.

That person's job is to teach you to be

a little bit better at managing money.

So, principle number one is we're going to put a group of those people in our lives. We're going to have a a financial advisor and a like a a mutual fund broker, okay? We're going to get an insurance person that knows insurance.

We're going to get a real estate person cuz I got a feeling you're going to buy a house. Um you're going to you can get that at Ramsey Trusted at at the website if you want people cuz we do not put our Ramsey Trusted label on these people unless they have the heart of a teacher.

Okay? You need a tax advisor.

Okay. Okay. So, insurance, real estate,

investing, and tax. Those four people

become your little board of directors.

And again, their job is not tell you what to do, their job is to teach you

some of the things you could choose to do.

Okay. Principle number one, heart of a teacher, not babysitter.

Okay. Principle number two, do not put money in something unless you understand it.

Okay. If it feels good or they Oh, well, that he seems to know what he's doing, honey. We're going to go with him. Those are the words people say right before they get scammed.

Oh. Okay. So, you say, I don't understand this yet. So, we're not doing it yet.

Okay? Because it's your job before God to manage this money, not theirs.

And so, we don't we don't do stuff until we understand it. And if it's brand new and you're brand new to it, that's okay.

You don't know how to ride a bicycle yet. You just got your first bicycle.

So, it may take a minute to balance, right? That's okay. That's okay. Don't you know, but you don't go buy a $30,000 Harley and you can't ride a bicycle.

Yeah. Okay? Yeah. And and so, we we get our skills up and our competence and confidence up, and that will give you great peace about this. Principle number three, go slower than you think you should.

For some reason, we feel like we have to become competent and uh sophisticated

overnight.

And it takes a little while. The first time you buy a house, you've never seen that much paperwork. The first time you open a mutual fund, you have never seen that much paperwork.

The first time, you know, when you're 8 years old and you open a bank account, it's intimidating. But once you've opened 30 of them, it's not a big deal.

So, take give yourself the grace

to go slow and to learn and not put money in something until you're ready. So, it's okay to park this money in something super boring that is not sophisticated while you spend some time learning.

Does that feel right to your spirit?

Most definitely. I got it written down.

Okay. How old are you guys?

Um I am 29 and my husband is 38.

>> Okay. And a good framework, if you want to figure out how to apply this money and start working your way through as you understand it and as you increase your speed just a little bit on some of these things and as some of these people with a heart of a teacher advise you, is I would walk right up the baby steps that we walk everybody up. And so, that's become debt free, pay off all your debts, get on a written budget so you're and you live on your income. You don't touch this money.

You don't need this money to live. You just live on the income that's coming into the house. You're living on it now.

So, keep living on it.

And don't increase your lifestyle to where you're having to drain this money to support your lifestyle.

Keep living on your income and if you do that and you use this money to step through the baby steps, the the 2.6 million could literally be 20 million in about 20 years.

Right. Yeah, see we don't need to we don't have debt. Like we just use our credit cards for gas and then if I >> Well, you would get rid of the credit card cuz you don't need it anymore. Use a debit card.

Okay. And you get on a budget and the two of you know where exactly where every dollar is going. Now, the duplex, do you own it or you're renting it?

No, sir. We're renting it. Okay, so you're probably going to go buy a house and pay cash for it.

Yes, sir. We were thinking about um somebody had told us about getting a duplex >> No, I'd just go buy a house.

Okay. You don't need to get fancy. Just go buy a house. Go buy you a nice house that's, I don't know, two or three hundred thousand dollars in Greenville, South Carolina is a pretty dadgum good house.

Yes, sorry. It's nicer than the duplex you're living in.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, and top off your emergency fund. So, if you spend if you spend 400k out of 2.6 million and you pay cash for a house and you don't have any payments anymore on a house and you have no payments anywhere else, no other debt and you're living on a budget, then the rest of that money can go to completely change your all's future.

If you'll live in the present like grownups and and avoid and I know you're going to do this cuz I could tell by the way you asked the question coming out of the gate. Avoid the need or avoid the thing

of oh, I hit the lottery and I'm rich.

You're really not rich. This money will be gone in about 20 minutes if you start screwing around with it.

Exactly. We just took that call. So, you

can be very wise with this. I just crunched some numbers for you. You said you're you're 29 years old. If you just pretended this money did not exist and at 62 you looked up and said, "Hey, we can retire." It'd be 81 million dollars in there. If you just didn't touch it and forgot it existed and it was invested wisely.

So, that's what we're talking about here. Now, you're going to use some of it though. So, it's not going to be quite that much. It's probably only going to be 60 million. >> You'll enjoy some and you'll give some.

You'll cover your kids' college funds and and help them get started in their adult life. But, that's the kind of stuff you can do if you handle this wisely and I think you will. And but it's it's number one, do not take advice

from someone unless they have the heart of a teacher. Number two, don't put money in stuff unless you understand it.

Number three, go slower than you think you should. It's okay, give yourself time to catch up. You're not an expert on this. You don't have a You didn't grow up with money.

You didn't grow up with people talking about money. This is a new thing and it's okay to learn something new and take a little time to do that. And and but that's how this stuff That's how money gets away from people is they violate those three things. Hang on, we're going to send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover as our gift.

We don't need anything from you and we're also going to set you up in the EveryDollar budgeting system, and that'll guide you through the process and then you guys make your decisions and be smart. And Meredith, we're here if you need some more help.

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Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by Yrefi. If your private

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That's the letter Y, R, E, F, Y {dot}

com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from McKenzie in Washington. My husband and I are in in a considerable amount of debt including two car loans, two student loans, credit cards, taxes, and our mortgage.

We barely make it through each month and rely on credit cards to bridge the gap. We have a $100,000 in a high yield savings account. Do we pull out all of our savings and pay off everything except the house and have no emergency fund? We are in our early 50s and contribute to retirement but don't have much in there yet.

We are scared to deplete our savings account.

Mhm. I mean, you got a life raft sitting there and you're going further into debt on these credit cards. Absolutely.

Drain that high yield savings down to just your starter emergency fund right now and knock out the debt if you can.

I don't know if it'll knock out all of the debt but the mortgage it sounds like it will. Yeah, the way you're describing it will.

So, McKenzie, here's the thing. You got to cut up the credit cards and never use them again.

Ever.

You have to get on a written detailed budget. Get the EveryDollar app and get yourself going. You and your husband working together.

Absolutely the only way you're going to survive this. You probably need to sell one or both cars.

Because I don't we don't know the numbers. They're not here.

But I'm going to guess and say a large portion of this might be car debt.

It usually is. That's how we guess that.

It's not a hard guess.

And then, I would drain my savings and be 100% debt free.

You you know, let's pretend that

of your debt that one of the cars is a $50,000 car debt and you owe

um 50 on it and it's worth 40.

Use some of your 100 to pay the difference and sell the car.

Cover the upside down amount. And then use another 10,000 and buy you a $10,000 car for cash.

Okay, that uses 20 of your 100 in that example instead of simply paying off the $50,000 car. I'd get rid of that. >> you're behind on retirement. I mean, you said you're scared to deplete your savings.

I'm scared you're not going to be able to retire. That's a much bigger problem. You can build back up the savings, but you guys got to get on this. >> back up the savings and you can build back up your retirement when you don't have any stinking payments.

>> all those That's probably a few thousand dollars in payments sitting >> But here's what's happened. You guys are normal.

You've got two car loans, two student loans, credit cards, and and you don't make enough to cover your bills. Because you've put yourself so far in debt buying crap you couldn't afford with money you didn't have to impress people you don't even really like. You're a normal American. >> And I guarantee they're six-figure earners. Yeah. So, what you've got to do now is you have to stop being normal.

And that means get highly organized, highly intense, and I'm going to make every dollar of our income behave, and we aren't buying anything unless we pay cash for it for the rest of our lives.

If you can't pay cash for it, you can't buy it. For the rest of your life.

And then you'll have your income freed up to put your

retirement in place, build some wealth, and put your emergency fund back in place if you've used it all with this $100,000.

But you should use the $100,000 today, and you probably should sell one or two cars.

And get some less expensive cars. You can move back up in car later after you become wealthy, but right now you're just broke people.

So, you need to be acting like broke people instead of rich people.

Andrew's in Atlanta. Hi, Andrew. How are you? I'm well, Mr. Dave. How about yourself?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Hey, so I'm just giving you a call today because I am in a pickle. Um,

I am supposed to be getting married in

Italy and my family, or at least my side of the family, has basically let me know that they have, you know, they don't really have the savings or the money anymore to go. Um, so I'm on baby step

two. Um, I only have about 2,000 less in my car loan. Um, I have about 3,000 saved and I

have >> heck are you getting married in Italy if you're broke?

Um, well, it's it's her family's doing.

Her side is well off and you know, they they asked us what do we want? We always dreamed of getting married in Italy, so >> think there's any we. I think it's what she wanted and you got hooked into it.

Uh, well, no, it's it's it's something that we always spoke about when we first got together. Like it was like a joke. Like, yeah, we can get married in Italy one day and you know, and then it actually became a real thing. Um, so yeah, they I mean

they're they're willing to, you know, pay for it and >> Okay, Andrew, wait a minute. I'm sorry. Let me stop you for a second.

There's a 100% chance when you were planning all this that you knew your family couldn't afford it.

Um, well, I told them a year ahead >> No, no, no, no, no. You know your family. You grew up with them. You knew they didn't have any money.

Yeah, I mean I mean I I I I told them to save and and and they told me that they were saving and they were good and then now we're here and they're like, hey, you know, we didn't save. So, I'm just kind of in a pickle. So, You're not in a pickle. You're not in a pickle.

They are. They won't be able to attend your wedding. Well, that's the thing. I never thought I'd be getting married without having my family there to support me and I feel like now I'm just going to get married and it's just going to be a whole gang of of her family.

you know, like a oddball. That's a bummer. >> You have a right to be disappointed with your family.

Yeah. Yeah. >> Not really. Not really. No. I mean, you I disagree, Andrea. I I For you to think they were going to do this was um you you knew your family.

You grew up with them. You knew they didn't have money. You knew they weren't going to be able to save this money. And you wanted to go to Italy anyway. And so, this didn't sneak up on you. I I don't agree. And it's not not due to them being irresponsible. They're just is who they is and you plan a wedding a place your people your people can't afford to go to. Man, that's so that's awful. I'm sorry.

Yeah. >> So, I guess I guess you just have a big celebration of some kind of cook get some barbecue when you get back put it in the backyard and on the picnic table and let's have a little throw down when you get home, right?

Yeah. Yeah, that's I mean, that's the plan. Um maybe maybe I I can do that. Um

I mean, >> your plan if you didn't call us?

Uh there was no plan. Really uh I mean, I don't get me wrong. I don't get me wrong. I I thought about maybe doing something like locally, but honestly, with me being on Baby Step 2, I don't really have, you know, enough funds to do something that would be big, you know, or that would be nice for my family at least.

Yeah. So, her family's paying your plane ticket.

Um they're they're paying for everything. Um we we already got our plane tickets probably about like a year ago.

On your own? No. No, I mean, she they No, their family paying for everything. They bought the plane. Her dad bought the plane ticket. >> paying a dime for anything involved.

>> No, he don't have any money. He's got $2,000.

No, yeah.

How old are you two?

Uh we're both 20 25. Okay. You're both working full-time?

Um no, I I I pretty much, you know, pay everything and do everything. She stay home. But but it's our money, you know.

I'm real big on the Ram the Ramsey we, not I. You guys have kids? Uh no, you're not big on the Ramsey we cuz you're not married.

Yeah. The Ramsey we doesn't apply to you're married. We tell you not to combine money until you're married.

Remember? Did you know that?

Yes. Yes, I definitely did.

>> Okay. All right.

So, how long have you two been living together?

Um, we've been together about living together probably about two, three years now.

Okay.

Um when is the Italy wedding?

Um, roughly about 30 days from now.

Okay. Um, it's probably not going to go over well. Not No, your parents don't get to go to Italy. You don't have the money, and you're not going to go borrow money to send them to Italy.

You're broke. Um there's another alternative. I don't think it's going to work cuz I don't think the people involved in this story are going to do it, but what you could do is go get married next weekend and have your family and their family there. I have a friend that did that uh because they the kids wanted to move in together and they were Christians and didn't want to live together before they were married.

And so, they went and got married like 60 days before the uh destination wedding and moved in married, moved in together, and the family was all present for the little wedding at a little chapel, and then they went to Paris is where they got married and did a destination in Paris.

Hey, if you're working the steps, the best and fastest way to get out of debt and into wealth is by using every dollar. Now, this is more than just a budgeting app. It's a plan built right in. It's our plan.

You walk the Ramsey plan, we're going to help you track your progress. You get a personalized recommendation all the time continuously from us. We're going to push you, pull you, wink at you, yell at you, smile at you to get you to do this stuff and it'll help you free up more money and work the plan even faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day.

Start EveryDollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Wyatt is in Fargo, North Dakota.

I'm good. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh I am calling today to ask if I should

repair my credit score.

No.

Just just no? Just no. Yeah. Because but

let's let's walk Let me let me back up then and tell you why Yeah. and where that came from. All right. Okay?

So, there's only one way to repair your credit score and that is to go to borrowing money and the paying on time of the borrowed

money begins to flush out and push the old

late payments to the back of the file

and the further to the back of the file they get, the better the credit score gets. In other words, if you have three things on your credit report and they're all negative because you were late on them and you put 10 things on your credit report that are all positive and you're on time on them, it will shift your That's how you repair your credit.

Yep. But you can't make the actual late payments history go away. You can

just push it to the back and overwhelm it with new debt.

Mhm. That's how people repair credit.

The other way you can repair credit is if there's something inaccurate on your credit bureau, you can have that removed.

But, that's probably not what we're talking about. And then, let's go past that and then rise up above the whole thing and say that a credit score is not an indication that you're winning with money.

Yeah. >> score is 100% derived from an algorithm.

Fair Isaac wrote the score, that's where it came from. And the algorithm is 100% how you interact with debt.

So, what kind of debt you have, how you pay the debt, how much debt you have,

those are the things that create your credit score. So, your credit score is actually not a credit score or an I'm winning with money score, it's actually an I love debt score.

Yeah. >> mathematically.

Mathematically? Yeah. And and and and so, you know, I don't want an I love debt score, I want a high net worth.

So, think about it this way, Wyatt. A good score just means you're good at managing debt. A bad score means you are bad at managing debt. None of that has to do with actual wealth building.

So, let's get you to build some wealth instead, and that involves paying off your debt. And at that point, you won't have a So, what I would do is how much how many bad things have you got on your report?

Um uh quite a bit, not from me though.

Okay, wait a minute, that doesn't make sense. How can you have stuff on your report that's not from you?

Because back when I was a child, my mother took out credit cards in my name.

>> that's identity theft, honey. It's fraud. That's fraud. >> I I'm aware. Um

and she took out money in my name. She's paid it all back at this point, but my

my credit score has suffered severely because of it. >> How old are you?

I'm 22 now.

Okay. All right. I would

submit identity theft on every one of those accounts.

And have them removed.

Okay?

Yeah. Did you use the money she paid you to pay that the debts off? What happened? Did she give you Did you didn't get any of this money. She just stole your identity. Your mother's a thief.

Uh yeah. Yeah.

Uh sorry.

It's heartbreaking to say that out loud.

Yeah. We have a complicated relationship. I'll

bet.

>> What Unless you're insane, you would have a complicated relationship.

Cuz you'd have to be insane to go along with this.

Yeah. It's I mean, I'm doing great now,

but it it's following me and it's affecting like interest rates and stuff.

So >> affects interest rates only if you're borrowing money.

Which I'm not doing much of anymore.

Okay, then you don't have to worry about it. >> Just don't do any. What do you need a a debt for right now? >> Yeah. So, okay. There's two answers to the question. One, the first answer I gave you is the correct answer. Don't worry about repairing your credit in the sense of don't worship at the altar of the FICO score. And because it we're not It doesn't affect interest rates on for me. I don't have a credit score and I have zero credit and I have zero debt.

So, I don't have a problem with interest rates. And that's where I want That's where I want you to get to, okay? Now, then let's go to the other part of this and that is that you were abused as a child.

Your mother's a financial abuser.

She stole your identity and messed up your electronic reputation.

And so, you should file identity theft

and on every one of those accounts that you did not open.

And have them removed. They're probably going to require that you do a police report and identify the thief. They will

do nothing to her. They should. They should put her in jail, but they won't.

Um but the good news is they actually didn't lose anything cuz she actually went and paid them, but she just paid them late. Is that what you told us?

Yeah, really late, but Yeah, so so they won't they won't they won't do anything to her cuz they got their money.

But you're going to have to go through some steps and you can have every bit of that completely removed and you should from your credit bureau report. I would if I were you. Do you want to work on that? If you want to work on that, I've got somebody that'll help you do it.

Um I I think I'm going to do >> You're not going to do it. That was a long pause. >> It was a big um You're not You're not going to address your mother ever again. Okay. So, anyway, you're going to live with this then and you're just going to live with it and over time after it's been on there after the account has no activity for 7 years, it will completely fall off.

But if you want to address it, folks, Zander Insurance's identity theft will take care of it. And if you have identity theft in place before this happens, which he couldn't have known.

He was 4 years old. But um but I I was going to offer him Zander, but I'm not now because I don't think he's going to do it. So, I'm going to waste my time. All right, Ben is in Jacksonville, Florida. Hey Ben, what's up?

Hey sir, thanks for taking my call.

Sure, how can we help?

Uh so, I think I'm on baby step six, but

there are two asterisks.

Um one, I don't know if I've saved enough for my daughter's college. And two, I still have a rental house that's not paid off. Um but >> Rental house would be in baby step six.

And four, five, and six run simultaneously.

Okay. Not progressively.

And so, you're you're if you're on baby step four, you're on baby step six.

Four, five, and six are at the same time. So, we're saving for 15% for retirement.

We're saving towards kids' college. If you think you got that done, you could stop that, and then you continue on, and that would put more on baby step six, which would be to clear off mortgages in baby step six.

Okay. That Is that logical?

It does. Yes, it does. Okay. How much you got saved for the kiddo?

Uh about 40,000 in a 529.

>> How old is she?

She's uh in kindergarten. She's about to turn six. >> You got You got enough.

And uh I also have a GI bill.

You definitely got enough.

You did a great job. Thank you for your service to the country, and thank you for being a great dad. Way to go, dude.

>> it. Yeah, both of those you're just You got a A+ on both categories. Well done. Uh also, make sure that 529 that was invested in good growth stock mutual funds. If it is, it will double every 7 years, which means it's going to be uh 80 160,000 by the time she gets there.

I think that should be enough. >> Yeah, that's what I said. Yeah, I think it's enough. Think you're done.

Box is checked. You did great, man.

>> That's 40 grand a year, and that's if they don't get scholarships, and you got the GI bill on top of that. So, I would You could stop funding it at this rate.

>> Yeah, and now just start going over that mortgage and knock out the >> mortgages. >> Knock out that rental mortgage and the home mortgage before you do that. >> And by the time she's in college, you could cash flow any other expenses that come your way. There we go. >> good life, man. Life is great. Well done, Ben. See what happens when you pay attention, boys and girls?

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Jordan

is in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hi Jordan, how are you? Hi, I'm doing good. Thanks taking my call. Sure, what's up?

Well, I am currently 42 years old, have my house paid off, no debt on all of my cars.

I really haven't started a retirement fund other than the pension I have from the government that I work.

And I have a lot of collectibles.

And I'm trying to determine if I should sell them and put that into a retirement account or let them continue to increase in value and sell them later.

Okay. Um I would make sure you got a retirement account started. If it requires selling the collectibles to do that, I would.

But if it doesn't, then you might keep them. The rule on collectibles are is this.

As a category, collectibles, which would be like coins, uh art, uh antiques, guns, uh anything that falls in that category, as a category, collectibles do not keep up with a good mutual fund investment.

However, people who are into a particular hobby

generally will make a good enough purchase on the collectible and know the particular nuances of it. Uh for

instance, a car collection of persons really into cars, you can make more on that because you have knowledge in it than you would make on a mutual fund.

But as in general, if you just said I'm going to collect cars, uh that no that wouldn't you wouldn't keep up with it.

But if you just really are into Corvettes and you've got five different times for Corvettes or whatever you you probably are going to make some good money on that. So that's probably your case. You're probably kind of into a couple of these things. Stamps is another one. Um that kind of thing that are baseball cards even. I know one guy's got you know, $200,000 in baseball cards, but he's way into it, you know. Um and and

so he's probably actually making decent money on it. I would never use that as a substitute for retirement though.

Are you there? >> Okay. What kind of collectibles do you have? Uh for the most part, uh a lot of card collectibles, uh vintage board games,

vintage antique books, stuff like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, as you know, um I don't know anything about the board game part, but the the book the book side, um a wide

spectrum of completely useless all the way to extremely valuable.

Yep. And it's it's like there's a lot of stuff in between. Um and what kind of cards? Pokémon or baseball or what?

Uh I have a lot of uh Magic the Gathering Alpha cards, like Black Lotus and >> Yeah. different vintage ones like that from the original printings that I collect.

Yeah. Are there ones you could part with and uh have no sentimental value to you that you go, I could sell this and make 20 grand and and be fine?

I could probably sell it all and be fine. Um I just don't want my wife or my kids if I kick the bucket to send it to Goodwill.

That's a good point. Yeah, that that's that's that's just That's some estate planning and some good instruction.

So, like uh my wife actually brought that up the other day. She said, "Okay, what am I going to do? We've got all this detailed estate plan." But, she's like made me write out a thing about about a year and a half ago, like, "Okay, I am not going to deal with your guns.

You have way too many of them, and I have nothing to do with this. I mean, the kid The boys will want four or five each, and after that, what am I going to do with them?" I'm like, "Okay, need to have give you a plan for that." And so, write it out this And I've got a detailed just because I'm into it. You know, it's a hobby. And so, it's all written out.

And so, that's all you need to do there is write it all out so they don't send it to Goodwill and that we don't, you know, give away something that's worth $20,000 or use it as a bookmark or something in one of those vintage books. And so, yeah, that kind of stuff. >> they'd much rather have an inheritance in the, you know, inherited IRA. That's going to be a lot simpler for them to handle.

So, I I would sell it if it doesn't mean much to you, and it was a fun hobby. I would sell it and park that in a in your retirement account or an IRA and start start on that. Cuz you're 42. Uh I mean, you got 20 years at least of a working career to build some wealth, and it sounds like you can do that with your income and a paid-for house.

You're in a good spot.

if we want to have a hobby also, that's okay. Cuz I have the I mean, I have these collectible hobbies, but they have nothing to do with my real net worth.

>> doing it for an ROI. >> not doing it for doing it because I Yeah, that's it. >> It's Dave Dave's It's a hobby. It's a hobby. >> It's a the healthiest form of addiction you can have. No, it's just a hobby.

That's it. It's It's There's nothing wrong with that. Uh Anna is in New York City. Hi, Anna.

How are you? I am good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay, so I have a question.

Uh my husband and I are retired.

Uh we don't have any debt.

Uh we have a daughter, an only child, and we'd like to buy her an apartment.

We'd like to do that now while

Well, while we're still alive rather than let her get everything How much how much uh how much net worth do you guys have? What's the size of your nest egg?

Ooh, probably I'd say about 2 million

with our house. Mhm. Our house is paid

off, but so some of that would be uh, you know, not cash, but in cash about 1.7.

Okay, good for you. Well done.

Well done. And and how much will this apartment cost?

Uh, somewhere between maybe around 250 or 300,000, somewhere around there. All right. I would do that.

We can do that. >> You're going to pay cash for the apartment. There's no debt, right?

Nope. We don't want to Yeah, that's another question that I had. Would there be any advantage No. uh, to get No. No,

we don't want that. We don't want that's a disadvantage. Cuz then you're not giving her a blessing, you're giving her a curse.

Right. Mhm. Yeah, yeah, no, I we we don't want to do that. Right. Mhm.

Now, what I would do, um, I had a friend of mine that did something like this and he said he asked her to uh, sign a one-page letter promising to never borrow money.

Right. Mhm. So that she doesn't go get a boyfriend and refinance this to buy him a pizza store. Oh, oh, no. Oh, yeah. That happens every

day, right?

I I never thought of that, but I did think that maybe uh, you know, borrowing money just because maybe she mismanaged her own money. >> Yeah, that would work, too. Yeah, so no, you can't you you have to promise us.

It's not a legal contract, it's just a moral contract. It's to raise your right hand, sign a letter stating I will never borrow money again, Mom, and I'm going to use the fact that I have a free apartment to create wealth where I just

I don't have a house payment.

Mhm. Mhm. And how can we help her do that? Also, because I She lives at home

right now. She She had lost her job. She came and she moved back home. She now has a good job and >> What's her good job?

Well, she's been living here several months. It It pays a decent wage.

>> What's a decent wage? How much does she make? About 73,000 a year. Can she live in the

city making 73?

Um you can in Brooklyn. Oh, okay. Okay.

How about that? Yeah, just make sure she can afford the ongoing, you know, insurance, taxes, all of that plays a part, maintenance. >> But I mean she help her get on an every dollar budget and, you know, we'll send her a copy of the total We'll send her a copy of George's book on how to avoid all the traps and um and get with the every dollar budget and we'll help you guys get this started and then let her get back out there on her own two feet. But yeah, I want her to promise that she's not going to make a mess out of this blessing.

That's all I want. >> I bet the HOA over there is as much as a mortgage payment in the city.

Hey guys, I've got big news. The Ramsey Show is going on tour and this is your chance to be more than just a listener.

You get to be part of the show. So, hear questions asked live and experience the kind of momentum that only comes from being in the room. We'll be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim

with a limited number of seats in each city. So, last fall we completely sold out in 72 hours. So, do not wait. Get your tickets at ramsaysolutions.com/events or by clicking the link in the show notes.

You ever wanted to see the person who's calling in and watch them ask the question or be in the room when we answer it? Well, now's your chance. The Ramsey Show is going back on tour. Live recordings with live

studio audiences and you can be in the audience and watch the Q&A happen cuz all the questions will come from the microphone on the floor. Experience live Q&A, raw raw confessions, crowd debates, local debt-free screams.

The team will be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim in April. We're

limiting this for production reasons to only about 300 seats a night. Last year we sold this out and we put it out there in 72 hours. It's just been out there a couple days. It's almost gone. If you want to come, grab your tickets at ramsaysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on the podcast or on YouTube. Rhonda is with us in Virginia

Beach. Hi Rhonda, how are you?

Hello, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hi, recently just found out um my husband is in debt.

Um separate accounts. My name is not on

it. Um the main thing I want to know is judges are normally favorable on the other spouse's side if the debt was created secretly and in his own account and I'm not in

debt on my side. So, I was just wondering um have you heard any stories of judges making the other spouse help pay the debt that another spouse has created secretly?

Uh well, yeah, we've heard all the stories. I mean, for sure, there's a lot of this goes on, sadly. Okay, so how long have you been married?

A long time. Um over well over 15. Okay.

All right. Um we've always had separate accounts. We do have one joint >> Why did he deceive you and hide it from you?

Um because it's online gambling. Mhm.

And it's his his own account and I had to I had to ask about it.

Um >> Because he has a gambling problem. Okay.

And so, how how much has his gambling problem caused How much debt has it cost? Um 40,000?

And what does he make?

Um um quite a bit, about about 90. Yeah, and what do you make? Um

Um right now, I'm 42.

Okay. All right.

Well, I mean, at the core of this is not really the money issue. At the core of this is two things. One is you're married to a person who has a an addictive problem.

Right. He's got a gambling problem.

Okay? By definition, he is following all

of the behaviors of an addict. The actual definition.

Okay? One of those being that he's deceived, two is is that he's out of control.

Okay? Okay. And and so, when you have to lie to your spouse and you're out of control, bottom line, we're going to define you as an addict. Anybody in our world does that, okay? So, number one problem is you are married to a person who has an addiction.

Number two problem, um is that he has, as a part of that addiction, has lied to you and broken your trust and your heart with it.

Right. Okay. So, the only way that this goes

forward in a positive way, the only way you have a wonderful marriage at 20 years, you're at 15 now, is that he addresses the addiction openly with you, gets help, stops

gambling, gets a therapist, goes to Gamblers Anonymous, you guys sit down with your pastor and he's held accountable to never gamble again the rest of his life.

Right. And then when he does that, over time, the first 10 minutes he did that, he's been dry for 1 day, 2 days, 1 week,

well, he's not trustworthy yet, but when he's been dry for a year, you can start to trust him and that would be logical.

He and um you know, and he can't do anything that looks like violation of trust ever again the rest of his life because he he has you know, he has deceived his wife at a very deep level.

And you're pretty pissed and pretty hurt about that unless you're weird.

Right? >> No, I'm I'm not happy about that at all and to the point that I'm about to look into um

divorce. I was just worried about the judge making me >> The judge will not make you pay this.

>> The judge will not make you pay this. If you very unusual. I I mean, I'm not a judge and I'm not a lawyer, but very unusual that and the deception has nothing to do with it. It's just simply, "Hey, your honor, the reason I'm divorcing him is he's a gambling addict and he ran up a bunch of debt gambling that I didn't even know about." And and the judge is going to go, "Oh, he gets to pay that." I mean, that's kind of way That 99% of the time that's the way that's going to go down.

But his path his path to staying married

is complete transparency from this point forward, no hiding anything ever again, getting help, which involves admitting that I have a problem, and getting in a 12-step program like again like GA, Gamblers Anonymous, and getting one-on-one therapy to never do this again. And this is gambling addiction and lying to my wife is a part of it.

So, he has to act like that he had that you discovered cocaine in his bedroom.

Oh, trust me. Yes, that's exactly where I feel I've dealt with other not addiction myself, but I've lived with people with addiction and that's the exactly what I um thought of it. I'm like, "Oh, it's just like a drug addict." Yep. The one thing playing around with it here and there, but yes, definitely. I took it right out of the gate. >> to tell you now? He didn't. She found it.

Oh, no. I had to I asked.

>> Oh, you asked. He told you he He told you when you asked. >> were going.

He He found He He came out. It He came

out just asked how How is your credit going cuz I've keeping things separate.

I don't get to see that and he don't get to see mine um too much. But just every

once in a while checking in say, "How things going? How is your credit? Oh, you know, how are you doing on your savings?" And come to find out he depleted the savings and On top of going

to 40K in debt. Yeah. So, if if healing occurs and we stay married, um there'll be a period of time which he handles no money and you handle all of it, his and yours.

And then over time you'll start to handle it together. Never again will you act like roommates.

Right. Because the fact that you're running this separate is added it added to this. It made it worse. The lack of unity caused a lack of transparency.

Yeah, but if you're both if you're both looking at all our money is in a pile and all our bills are in a pile and we are both looking at all of them, then it's much harder for something like this to occur. Yeah, I'm definitely even if even been separate I still look at it as a major setback. >> it doesn't No no excuse, Rhonda. It's not the same. When it's all in one pile,

everybody sees everything. It's almost impossible for this crap to happen.

Whew. I'm kind of scared now. I'm done And that was my whole thing with me having a savings and paid off my cards, and now it'll make me think that the >> only reason you would The only reason you would allow it to be in one pile is if you're in control and or over time he becomes worthy of trust again because the last time he gambled was 5 years ago and he's dry, and we've had these healthy good marital discussions about our budget every month, and we both know where every dime

of our money is going. And if you did that for 5 years, you could start to not be scared.

Yeah.

And that's a healthy place to aim at if you guys are going to stay together. That's how you should do it. And I hope that's what works out. I hope it works out that way. But this is how people come back from the deception around people hiding debt and or come back from being married to an addict is you rebuild trust. Dr.

Henry Cloud was with us here this morning. I had lunch with him today, and he has a book out called Trust. And it's a how to lose it and how to rebuild it.

And that you know, these are the types of things. But lots of transparency, lots of extra layers of communication, over-communicating, never assume the other person knows something. Well, you should have known.

No, that's not that that's bull.

Everybody knows everything cuz it was said out loud. And the more of that you have, the more trust is built in any relationship, employer-employee,

husband-wife, parent-child, all of this works. From the pulpit in your church, transparency, extra levels of communication, reality is dealt with.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Everyday on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Tim and Shannon are on the debt-free

stage right here in the lobby of Ramsey

Solutions. Hey guys, how are you? Hi Dave, we're good. Great. Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live?

Chicagoland suburb of Illinois. Love it.

Very cool. And how much debt have you two paid off? We've paid off just over $103,000.

>> Very cool. How long did that take? About 57 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? Uh we fluctuated between 175 and about 200

ending. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? Uh I am a police officer. Mhm.

And I work in HR. Oh, very cool.

Excellent. Good job for both of you.

What kind of debt was the 103?

Uh it was the house. >> That was the house payment.

YOU ALL PAID FOR A HOUSE? >> WE DO. >> We do. And you're a police officer and HR director and you're not 150 years old. That's correct. How old are you two? I'll be celebrating my 40th in May. Love it. >> I'm 32. I love and you have a paid for stinking house. What's this house worth?

Uh just over 300, YEAH. WAY TO GO, YOU TWO. AWESOMENESS. How much in your

retirement nest eggs? So we were calculating that. We're 3 400,000.

>> All right, cool. So you're heading towards baby step millionaire in just a year or two. Yes, sir. Way to go, y'all.

I'm so proud of you. Thank you.

>> What caused you to be weird?

So it started during COVID when I rolled out with some help SmartDollar to our police department and we took it village-wide.

I was the training manager at the time and Shannon and I binged that baby step two. We were here joined you in May of 2021, but baby step seven we've been working on that the last 57 months following the blueprint of SmartDollar. For those of you that don't know SmartDollar is our Financial Peace University but for companies and for organizations, HR directors use it and people we have several police departments and first responders using it around the nation to put all their employees through it. So like you all put all their employees through, Costco put all their employees through our our you know Financial Peace University in essence.

It's a class and so you led the class at your police department. >> Yes, I've been in charge of that since since COVID. >> Well, thank you. Wow.

>> That's cool. So you not only got to see yourself get out of debt, you got a lot of your your guys that are out there and gals that are out there on the highways and byways putting their life at risk, they're getting their lives cleaned up. Yeah, we saw we saw a really strong benefit with it where we started with it just as the police department and then we got the whole village on board. So now we have our wastewater employees have access to it, our admin clerks, everybody, the entire city now has adopted SmartDollar.

>> Wow, it's a movement over there. Look at you, you're the you're the guy running the whole thing, man.

Well, that's so stinking cool. Yeah, and you know, with the police department, I always love hearing you guys do it in particular because it's also like we had we've had it with the military for years. And one of the things that in a high-stress environment like that is is the in in military world, they say combat readiness. Being ready to go into combat with your head clear, ready to do one thing is much better when all the

there's no debt stress at home. I'm not worried about my car being repoed, I'm not worried about my lights being cut off. And police officers is exact same thing. Yeah, the idea behind it is exactly that.

Yeah, trying to book some some side gig, yeah. Exactly.

>> Yeah, the whole thing. Wow. Wow. That's so cool. And so freedom I see the blue stripe shirt. Now I'm getting to the blue flag. Okay. Yep. All right. What's it say on there? Debt free family baby step seven. You did Hey! Custom made t-shirts just for today. So the leading SmartDollar, did that kind of put an onus on you guys to really get this house paid off faster? Like was that part of the story? We we we hit the deadline ahead of time but um there wasn't without bumps along the way.

Yeah, so um we were actually here in May of 2021 and did our baby step two debt free screen. >> Mhm. Um and after that we tried to start

a family and we're really struggling through that. So um during that period

we actually sought infertility treatment

and because we were able to complete baby step two, we were able to cash flow all of the infertility treatment and we're able to welcome our baby girl back in March of last year.

>> March of last Yeah.

Um, and so I think that really >> anything else in the whole story. Absolutely. So, she's our why and I think after having her really kind of put things into perspective for us to really just knock out the rest of the debt that we had and wanted to set her up for a future that we weren't really familiar with ourselves growing up. I love it.

Yeah. Yeah, change your family tree and while you're at it be an example to all your compadres, all the people you work >> and I saw that there was such a void in the financial wellness aspect along this journey that I went ahead and took part in your financial coaching and have since started coaching first responders across the country.

>> Oh, wow. >> In workshops and one-on-one to where a lot of employers yet have not really adopted a true financial wellness program and this is giving them some sort of hope. Yeah. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you. It's incredible.

All right, now that you've done all of that, I mean, you have not only got out of debt, you also cash flowed the fertility and then on top of that we paid off the house and now you're coach helping other people and you've led the whole village, not just the police department through Smart Dollar, the whole thing. Now, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Sticking to the budget is the biggest thing. Um, hands down. >> Easier said than done, isn't it?

Absolutely. It is and especially in our world of first responders, we we crave we thrive control. That's what we have to have. So, what amazes me when I hear a first responder that doesn't take control of their money with a budget and a lot of times that's where we start in these trainings.

It's like if you can just start telling your money where to go, you're going to want to put it in a lot of different places once you start seeing where it's going. So, So budget is the most crucial part. Yeah, being proactive with it. You know, that's interesting.

I hadn't thought about it. So much of your training is about controlling all the variables from a safety perspective so that no one gets hurt. >> And policies and procedures and law. Everything guides our do you start your squad car, you start the fire truck, everything is a policy procedure and everything.

A checklist, yeah. >> Just put a policy and procedure in place for your money. Wow. Just apply what you're used every day.

Yep. You know, that that's very interesting. Wow, very cool. >> Have you been seeing stories from the people in your village that are following the plan also becoming debt free cuz it's weird to talk about money with your co-workers.

>> It is. And you're out there with you. That is the difficulty in trying to get a a chief of police or a fire chief that to even say, "Hey, you know what? Come on in and talk about this piece." For so long it is that taboo topic, but uh it's the quiet conversations afterwards.

It's it's after you meet in a workshop then see that person sticks around in the back of the class and then comes up and it says, "Tim, can I ask you a couple questions?" And it we're still working on it, but the the fact that we're all trying is what really helps cuz the the these first responders need that.

Well, thank you for being such a service to your village and so proud of y'all.

Thank you. >> you're not even stinking 40 years old. You're almost millionaires, got babies coming, everything's happening. This is What what better life can we have?

>> I I This is the life we always dreamed of and it wouldn't be possible without following the baby steps. I'm just so proud of you. Thanks for embracing Smart Dollar and and I'm just I'm the I'm thrilled it worked. I know it worked, but I'm always I'm I'm never surprised that it worked, but I'm always thrilled that it worked, you know.

>> but it works yes and it's worth it. It is hard. Uh it's it's just easier than being broke and stressed Amen. and freaking out for 25 years, you know, instead I got this 20 months of really having to lean in on this and now you got your stinking house paid off, man.

It's unreal. Yeah, it was it was December was our last payment which again was ahead of schedule. So we've had a couple of months here and even standing here and getting to meet with the Smart Dollar team and spend some time. It's just you're still taking that deep breath because you you know, like you said, before 40 years old no. >> Still surreal, yeah. have so many options and choices we get to make now.

What's the big thing you're going to do to celebrate?

This is the year This is the year of traveling. Oh, where are you going?

What's the big trip? This was a big one.

This was This was a big one. Um we're we're spending my 40th in Florida, so we're taking the whole family down there. So we got a couple other things, but at the end of the day that's what we remind ourselves, money was never the goal. Money is the tool to get to the goal.

>> Got you. All right. Are we going to put uh the baby into the debt-free scream?

We'd like to. All right, fine. And name and age? This is Keely, and she will be

one next week. >> I love it. So proud of y'all. Tim and Shannon and Keely from the Chicago, Illinois area took their whole village through the all the first responders, all the police department, and then everybody else paid off their own home.

Debt-free house and everything. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream!

Three, two, ONE. WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

THAT IS ONE CUTE BABY. >> TALK about paying it forward, baby.

That's worth getting out of debt right there. >> A lot of paying it forward there. >> That's That's a triple hero.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But, do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom. But, you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

Our scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 5:5, "It is better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay."

John Adams said, "There are two ways to conquer and enslave a country. One is by the sword, the other is by debt." Sally is in Philadelphia. Hi,

Sally. How are you?

Hi, Dave. I'm doing great. Thank you. Um I first wanted to thank you so much. Uh with your guidance and the grace of God, I was able to pay off all my personal debt many years ago. Wow. And now, yeah.

And and now, um my question is, how do I

view business debt?

Because I was able to get out of my personal debt and my fa- my sorry, my brother is in um uh a a farming industry. So, he was not able to have a lot of money. So, he and I decided about 5 years ago to buy uh a

farm together.

Uh the farm is is such that it's it's an orchard. so that it at least takes 5 to 7 years before um return can occur. So, for these last 5 years, I've been basically bankrolling it myself with my cash and um getting a

mortgage through Farm Credit, and we did get a line of credit.

And now that line of credit is um I it's

due. And either I can choose to pay um use it

e- get a a full loan for that,

or I can get a pledged line from my

{quote} {unquote} fun money that I was able to also save on the side, which is different than my retirement.

Okay, so you have you have personal investments equal to what?

Uh current Does that include the mortgage on the farm? >> No, personal investments.

You said fun money and retirement.

>> Yes. So, you have a retirement account, and then you have a non-retirement investments that are how much?

Yes, my non-retirement investments are about $440,000.

>> And what is your line of credit?

Uh my line of credit is only 120,000.

>> Pay it off today.

Okay. And um the the question, sir, is do I pay it off by selling all my investments and taking the capital gains? >> Or use the Okay, pledge line of credit.

>> Yeah, I'm not borrowing money.

Okay. We stopped borrowing money until we got to apple orchard, and then we started again.

Yes. Stop it. So, what's the other mortgage on the apple orchard?

Uh three I think it's like 360. But, the

thing is >> And it hasn't made a profit yet.

No, sir, because it takes 5 to 7 >> Yeah, how long have you been screwing with this thing?

Uh 5 years.

So, it should be starting now.

Yes, sir. In uh next year is hopefully when we're going to start having money coming in to be able to pay off all this debt and not incur any more debt at all.

And please tell me the projections are ridiculously good next year after you put 5 years of alligator in this.

Yes, sir. It's actually quite It's quite great. So like how much you think you're going to make profit next year?

Uh well, after the following year it's going to be another 550,000 coming in.

Um out of that it's going to be about 120 in um in cost.

Okay, so you can pay off the mortgage out of the profits next year.

Yes, sir. That's That's the goal is to get out of debt as quickly as possible once the money comes in. Yeah, you don't need the money off of the orchard. You did this Both of you did it as a side gig and you have funded it. I assume with your brother you have clear documentation that you're getting all the money you put into it back before he starts putting money in his pocket.

Uh well, yeah, actually we're in a 50/50 cuz he's doing all the work on the vineyard, right? I mean on the on the orchard. He's the one that's doing all the um the the on the ground work.

>> So the only way the debt gets paid is 50/50.

Your 50% pays off the debt?

No, no. The We first pay off the debt, but then after that everything's 50/50.

Oh, okay. So he doesn't get any money until the debt is paid.

Um that's a great question. The way that I view it is that he's putting in the money now by working on it.

So it would be equal >> you've made are equal to his labor essentially?

Okay, see this is what I'm worried about. You guys don't have a You guys don't have a clear plan for when this the thing does start becoming profitable. How quickly you are made whole.

And And I'm okay with that because I'm thinking of this as a long-term investment. >> you're already 5 years in and made nothing.

Yes, sir. Yeah. >> Yes, sir. So yeah, you But you guys really need to think about and and have it detailed out exactly how that you clear up this debt and then then but you know, we don't just start raking chips off the table here while there's still problems.

Mhm. I mean, that you got a $360,000 problem and you're getting ready to pay off this line of credit and you need to recoup that. The debt now is owed to you.

Yes, sir. That has to be paid back to you because you just used your personal money to do that. Otherwise, this is you know, we're starting to value his labor at about $300,000 a minute if we're not careful. Yeah, and and that's basically No, that's you know, that's basically what, you know, a consultant would be charging in in this situation.

$300,000 a minute?

No, no, not a minute. Sorry. No, not a minute. I was like, "Wow, I'm in the wrong business." Yeah, so uh yeah, so my point is is that you need to you guys have to have a real uh forced ranking of what happens to the cash when it starts coming in.

First, we recoup the you put the money in back in your pocket for this line of credit that you pay off today.

Do you ever recoup the money you put in earlier? And then we pay off the 360

before he starts making $100,000 a year in out of apples.

We need to get all of that cleared up and then we can split 50/50 after that.

And if your 50% is due to the money you put in earlier, that's okay. If you don't recoup that, that's okay. That's your investment and your return is on the cash flow after that. That's all fine. But when where the way people end up getting sideways in these things is um they don't have real good clear detailed

explanations that they're both aligned to on where the cash goes all as it goes

down the list of priorities.

And um you're very generous and open-handed with this and he works hard, so I want him to get some out of it. That's fine. Just build that generosity or that open-handedness into the clarity and into the decision that you guys make.

Interesting. Lisa is in Auburn, Alabama.

Hi Lisa, how are you?

Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay, so I'm a single parent and I have a 6-year-old boy and I'm in step two of the baby steps and I'm just wondering

I'm worried that it's going to take me about 10 years to pay off my debt and I'm wondering if I should go ahead and

basically buy some play gym equipment for our backyard so he has something to do. He's an only child and he just gets

too much screen time right now but I know that will delay me paying off my debt.

How much debt do you have, honey?

110. On what?

>> Other than my mortgage.

It's 75k student loans and then 9,000 in

a personal loan and the rest is credit cards, alimony taxes and medical. Yeah.

What do you do What do you do for a living?

I'm actually a tax accountant. Okay, so what do you make?

Right now 86. Why would it take you 10 years to pay this off?

Well, I guess with my minimum payments I just wasn't sure if I could pay off more than 10,000 a year unless my income goes

drastically up. >> Yeah, you're going to have to get your income up and you're going to have to get your lifestyle down and scorched earth you're not doing a detailed sacrificial budget or you'd have more room than you've got.

Okay. Um I have I I do have every dollar. It's just my debt payments right now are about 40% of my take home pay.

Okay. All right. And what are you talking about spending on playground equipment?

Really really just getting a fence for our backyard and getting like um just a swing set or just something back there so that he can actually enjoy our backyard. How old is he?

>> Um he's six. Okay. I'll tell you what we just did, Lisa. My wife went on Facebook Marketplace and in these Facebook groups, they are giving this stuff away.

Just hoping someone will pick it up. You don't need to go buy him a new play set, you know, for a thousand dollars to make him happy. Just go get something real cheap off Facebook and he'll be just happy He'll be happy with a cardboard box. I I'm a little We're not getting him a cardboard box.

We're going to get him a nice thing off of Facebook Marketplace for just pen a few pennies here or there. Literally, people want it out of their backyard.

I don't know. Right. Just I'm I'm guess I'm old school, but I'm just like, "Don't leave the yard." There's an idea.

>> They've had an electric fence growing up. He knew not to go past it.

>> have a yard.

That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

This is The Ramsey Show.

The Ramsey Show Live is your chance to actually be part of the show. Ask your burning question live.

>> Finally win that money argument in your house. My mom occasionally asks us to borrow money. >> That's a no all the way around. I'm a spender, he's a saver. >> I'm a tightwad at heart. How many tightwads are out there? Thank you for making yourselves known. You do a pre-prenup? What's a pre-prenup? >> I don't know. I thought there'd be something.

The Ramsey Show Live is your chance to be in the room with other people that are on the same journey as you.

>> There's always something you can do to better your situation.

>> We don't sell magic wands. And so that person in the mirror, they are really the secret sauce. They are the solution.

I'm really, really proud of you. It's awesome. >> That's pretty fun. You guys are great.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Fairwinds Credit Union studio in the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsay Show. We are here to help you. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz. I'm George Camel. Open phone lines at88255225.

Jennifer is going to kick us off in Colorado Springs. What's going on, Jennifer? >> Hi. Um, I was calling because I wanted

to know how I can save money or make

money as a stay-at-home mom um, who has

no access to money. My fiance is the one that is in charge of all the financial aspects of our lives. Um, and anytime I need any type of money, um, I have to ask for it. So, that's my question. How can I make or save money without

any other form of accessing money? I >> I don't think that is the solution to this problem. And you know that, too.

This is a band-aid that you have to go make money as a stay-at-home mother because he doesn't give you any access.

How long has this been going on?

>> Um, it's always been on and off. Um, since I became a stay-at-home mom, 6 years ago. >> 6 years.

>> Yes. >> Goodness gracious. Okay. Uh, when you say he controls the finances, you have no access to the bank accounts.

>> No, not none whatsoever. If I need money for groceries, for the kids, for myself,

um, then I have to ask for it and it has to be the exact amount that I'm spending. >> Okay. Okay. And Jennifer, I'm sure throughout six years you have asked him

for access, correct?

>> Um, yeah. I've asked him for money for access and I've asked him for maybe >> What does he say when he when you're like, "Hey, I need access to our checking. I need a debit card. I need >> I need to be able to to live." What does he say? >> It's 100% no. if I want. Um, he can give

me some sort of allowance. Um, but 100%

no access to his account.

>> What's causing you to stay in this relationship besides the obvious? You guys have kids together and everything, but what what has caused you to be in functioning like this for six years?

>> Honestly, um, I'm not too sure.

>> You'd be better off getting alimony and child support. At least that's forced through the courts and you can do what you want with the money without having an adult chaperone.

>> I've I've heard that before. I've been told that before. >> Yeah. So, Jennifer, you're in a pretty toxic relationship that's probably goes beyond money. >> This is financial abuse.

>> Is it? >> There's no other way to say it.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. You're two adults that are in basically a marriage. You're not legally married, but you have kids together. You've been together for six years. one of you is a stay-at-home parent and you don't have there there's no shared

equity in the household.

>> He doesn't trust you. >> You're basically a child to him

>> is how he's is how he's functioning in the relationship. And so, uh, >> at least the babysitter gets paid without having to ask.

>> This is the crazy part that that he's made you think this is normal and it's okay and it's just, well, this is just the way he is. He's a little controlling sometimes. And then his thing is like at me asking is like me telling him, but it doesn't

feel that way, you know. Um, so

>> no, it doesn't feel that way because that's not that's not true. So my I want to know from you, Jennifer, what's causing you to stay with this man?

>> I'm I'm not too sure. I think maybe the

children. >> Okay. >> If I'm being completely honest. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's a

bigger question for you Jennifer on what do you want life to look like in the next two years 5 years 10 years for you

and that's a really really scary um question I think always

because what the answer is what I think you know what the answer is is going to mean a lot of hard and new change uh in

your life and so um if I were you how

How old are your kids?

>> Um, 64 and one.

>> Oh gosh. Okay. Okay. Um,

if I were if I woke up in your shoes, yes, you're going to need money um to be able to get out. And >> and so I would start looking probably

today. When here's the horrible thing is is if he finds out, what's he going to say? Does he tell you to go get a job?

Is he like, "You need to go make your own money." or would he what would his

response be for you having a job?

>> Oh, no. No, no hesitation. He says if you want to get a job, go ahead. Um, that's I it doesn't bother me. The only thing is you'd have to pay for child care because you're the one that wants the job. Um, >> whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, you have to get a job and pay for child care on your own because that was your decision.

>> This man is insane.

>> Do you hear yourself?

>> I do. Does he ver abuse you just verbally and emotionally or is there more?

>> No. Um there isn't more.

>> Well, there's enough where that came from. >> Well, so yeah, you're going to um I I

would be finding a way to make money, Jennifer. You need to set up your own checking account and you need to have a plan on what does this look like to get out of this relationship. depending on the state. There's some type of common law marriage, you know, depending on and I think it's state by state, but even if you decided to leave in some states, I don't know Colorado's laws that you actually it could be seen as a basically a common law marriage, >> you'd be entitled to assets.

>> Yes.

right? If you guys have a house together, cars, checking account, retirement accounts, all of it. So I would look into that kind of thing if leaving which is what either this needs to be fixed on a radical level which you can't fix him um but either the relationship has to have a complete 180 of full a full repentance and

um him pleading for your forgiveness because of what he's done to you.

Horrible. It's horrible. Or you're going to have to make a better decision for yourself, Jennifer, you know.

>> Yeah. So, so yeah, I would be opening up my own checking account. If there's a way to work from home for a little bit and get an income in >> um and create some stability and then whatever that next move is for you, at least that gives you a >> pad to step out on >> um so you're not just drowning with no money, right? Having some resources is going to be helpful. >> Um yeah. >> Do you have any friends, family, church

that could help support you through this? I do, but it's something I don't

wish to um burden on them.

>> No, it's not a burden. >> You're not a burden. If they love you, they will be so happy that you ask for help in your time of need.

>> Yeah. This would be the time to get as many resources as possible around you, Jennifer. >> And you believe lies too long that you're a burden, that no one else has to deal with this. It's just my burden to bear. And it's all lies that he's put in your mind.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And you believe them for so long that you don't know another way.

You don't know another life. But I think you deserve better. Don't you?

>> I totally do. I totally think I deserve better. And I think that's another reason why I haven't stepped out is because I will literally walk out with what I have on my back.

>> Yeah. And that's where friends, family, and community really step up too, >> right? >> Um so I would be Yep. leaning into those conversations. And I would I would start thinking of who you want to be, Jennifer. I mean, honestly, when you look at just the world and the what you can contribute um from a career

perspective is going to be huge. And Ken's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. We're going to give you a copy of that um just to just to get your mind to

those wheels start to turn cuz if you have not been in the workforce for, you know, an extended period of time, sometimes you forget of like, okay, what do I enjoy? what am I passion about? How can I help? But that's a that's a really big answer to a really urgent problem

though. So here the urgency in us that this relationship is is pretty damaged and you don't need to be part of it if it continues down the road like this.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it.

But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money still showing up. And that's why Xander is our go-to.

They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait.

It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

CJ's in Phoenix up next. Welcome to the Ramsey Show, CJ. How can we help?

>> Yes. How y'all doing? Thank you'all for hosting me. Um, I wanted to uh get your

input and uh ways to get out of uh my

debt with the credit cards, student loans, and a car loan. Um, and my house

payments. I think when I first got the house um I was making a certain amount of money and I thought it was a good idea to get this two-story house but um

per paycheck it's been uh the house payments uh what I paid to escrow is a

whole check and >> so it's half your income >> check half my income. Yes, sir.

>> Your take home pay. Okay. >> My take home. >> What do you make? I make uh before taxes

about 103,000.

>> Okay. Are you single?

>> Married. >> Married. Okay. Is your spouse working outside of the home or at home?

>> Uh she uh we just she just had a baby.

Um so she's not working currently.

>> Congrats. That's exciting.

>> Thank you. >> Okay. What's your total debt?

>> My total debt with the house payments I

want to say is >> not including the mortgage. Just give us the consumer. You said car loan, credit card, student loans.

>> About 110,000.

>> Woo. How much is the car loan?

>> The car loan is only 5,000. The the the bigger one is uh the credit cards and the student loans. >> What do those break out to be? How much are the student loans?

>> The student loan is about 40,000 on the

government one and 5,000 on Texas loan.

I don't I think that's the private one.

>> Okay. And the credit card comes out to be uh altogether about 60,000.

>> 60,000. How many credit cards do you have?

>> It um five between five it's the 60,000.

>> Okay.

>> Well, what did the 60k get spent on in the credit cards? And like over what period of time was this?

It's been over the last I want to say about year and a half where

um once I I got the

um the clinical coordinator position um

not that the pay I I came home as a full-time uh nurse and to get this

position and I was doing a travel assignment so I was getting paid more.

Um, so that's how I thought in my mind

that I was just going to stay uh together. I mean, for a good amount of time traveling, but then we had our first kid and I was, you know, off of

home and >> so your income went down, but your spending stayed high. The lifestyle creep never went away and so you were just spending on the cards. >> So the so the house payments um was

taking you know the one payment and to

you know other stuff. speak directly in your phone, CJ. We're having a hard time hearing you. >> Oh, sorry. Okay. The um so, uh once the

house pay once I came full-time and the house payment was half of what, you know, half of one one take one check per month. Um that's when I was, you know, I'll put it on the card and hopefully I'll, you know, be able to pay it. And it was just Oh, >> you're putting the mortgage on the card.

>> Not the mortgage. It was just uh everything else was. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. >> Oh, because you spent one full paycheck on the mortgage and then anything else lifestyle just went on the card.

>> Yes, ma'am. Okay. >> Are you and your wife ready to have a very different life?

>> Yes, sir. We we talked about it and we always listen to the show and we always just talk about we need to do better and the with the credit cards. Uh most of them are through through Chase Bank and I did call to tell them that I can't pay

anymore. So, they put me on on on the plan, but even with that is about just

Chase alone is about 1,200 that I'm paying. Um, >> okay. With with everything, CJ, with you're paid twice a month with the mortgage, the credit card bills, your regular utilities, I mean, everything.

I'm assuming you're coming up short every month if you stayed current with all of your debt. >> I do come short. I did pick up this year. I did pick up a home health job which uh usually it's about $400 or $500

more per month >> and that gives me the ability like that 500 to pay >> that's what you need >> to say to keep your head above water to but but that's it though there's nothing extra to be throwing at this debt to get out of it. It's just that's just to pay the minimum payments. >> Yes ma'am. That that's just monthto month and you know it's >> Yeah. How many hours are you doing that extra job? Uh that's per patient. Okay.

Um right now it's I have about three four patients. Sometimes I'll tell them my days off and they'll try to give me, you know, PRN uh jobs to just go see a

patient, but they don't come often. It's just >> it's not reliable. >> So, I mean, that's a good thing to have because I feel like it pays well, but I would have another side hustle because yes, CJ, it's something it's it's got to shift from the income perspective. I think you guys need to cut your lifestyle if you haven't already.

>> Yeah. No eating out, not no investing, no saving. All we're doing is trying to pay down the smallest debt. So take that smallest credit card that you have and we're going to knock that out.

Or if it's the car loan, that's the smallest debt or the student loan. We're knocking that balance out first and make minimums on the rest.

That's called the debt snowball method, >> which will either be that $5,000 private student loan or your $5,000 car or if

there's a if there's a credit card smaller than 5,000, you're going to attack that first.

>> Okay. >> Is there anything you could sell to come up with some cash to speed this up?

>> Everything else we I've looked and it would just be just minimal stuff uh shoes, but you know, it's >> What is the car worth? You said you owe five on it. What is it worth? it it's worth about 3,000. It's a Jeep, but the

miles it's I have I think right now it's

about 155,000 miles on it. So,

>> um how long ago did your wife have the baby?

>> Uh a couple months ago.

>> Okay. You know, I would have a goal for you guys cuz again, $500 a month shifts.

You know, you guys, it it it's so helpful. So, I'm thinking for her, what

could she do from home to make 500 bucks

a month? And that could include selling stuff. She could make a part-time job of selling your shoes, CJ, making some money, you know? But for real, like, what what what can she do? And she doesn't have to start today. But maybe you guys look up and say, "Okay, you're going to start working CJ extra. You're cutting lifestyle." And then we're going

to look up and I don't know, I'm making this up. June, she's going to start doing something through the end of the year, bringing home an extra five to a,000$500 to $1,000. Like, I think as

much income as you guys can get in rolling in, which is going to be exhausting. It's going to be so hard. It's so frustrating. >> But that's going to make you guys get out of debt that much faster because it's not fun, right, during this process of sacrifice. But you guys either have to do it really intensely and just go

all in or you kind of just dabble around

the edges and you guys will keep it around for another four to five years.

>> Cuz here's the truth. If we can if we continue at this pace and you can only throw a hundred or 200 bucks of this debt, you're going to be in debt for the rest of your life. And so that's why we're saying six figure debt. You need a massive six-figure income to pay this off in a reasonable amount of time.

2, three, four years. That's the goal here of intense sacrifice, not 20 years of just trying to make our way through and make the minimum payments while the interest racks up. So that's why we want you to have a sense of urgency to get this income up. And you've got a lot of skills that are very valuable.

And so if you can go make 150 grand, 200 grand, and she makes another 50 grand, even if the kids are in daycare for a season, they will survive.

>> Okay? So getting our income up, >> that's the key. getting expenses down as much as we can, but even then, your income has to go up in order to knock this out quickly.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, hang on the line, CJ. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, along with Every Dollar. That's our budgeting tool. And you and your wife tonight, you're going to lay out here's our next paychecks.

Here's all of our expenses. Here's our plan to make the most of every dollar.

>> Yeah. And um we always caution against

moving. I mean, honestly, because it's such a big expense. It's it's like one of the biggest things to uproot your family out of a home. But

I would consider it's half of your income and unless your main job, you're

going to see significant raises in the next 1 2 3 years. Um if there's not and

it's looking pretty plateau, I mean, golly, that's an extra $2,000 if you get it under that to that 24 that 25%.

>> That's an extra two grand a month that you're, you know, that you could save.

um if you guys changed your housing situation, which I know is that's a big ask, >> but it changes the whole timeline. It does. And you guys can become homeowners again once we're not broke, but right now that 50% mortgage is it's eating your lunch and hurting your ability to pay down the debt. So, hang on the line, CJ. We're going to get you those resources. We wish you guys the best with this debt payoff.

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Up next, we've got Joseph in El Paso, Texas. What's going on, Joseph?

>> Hi. Uh, how's it going?

>> Great. How can Rachel and I help today?

>> Hi. So, uh, I have a question. Well, I

guess a loaded question regarding a whole life insurance policy that I took out. I think that's what it's called.

>> Okay. >> Um, uh, I took it out when I was 19. I'm

22 now. So, it's been, I would say two

years and a half, almost three years, would be three years in June. And I've put in a lot of money into it. And I've I've read a lot of stuff online, uh, and just, you know, gone back and forth. and I've gotten like sort of scared that I could have done something a lot better with uh my retirement, with

my future and whatnot.

>> How much have you put in so far? You said a lot of money. What does that mean? >> So, I in total with payments and everything, I've put in 21,000.

>> Um and uh right now there's like a

surrender charge of like four grand or something like that that will go away to zero in like a couple couple years.

>> That's how they like it. They want to keep you on the hook and go, "Man, if you just hang on, this thing, you got to really ride it out." Who sold this policy to you? It was someone you knew, right? >> Yeah. So, um, my mom was in the business

of selling it, but it wasn't her. Like, she left it. She's now doing something else. But, uh, one of her close friends,

you know, you know, talked to me about it. And I mean, it all sounds good and all. Um, I got one that has that's for 300,000 with long-term care in it. Um, I

had a lot of like medical problems growing up. Uh, and so some of them

still affect me to this day. So I kind of like just made a decision like I want to protect myself and in the case that I get hurt, you know, I have that like long-term care available to me. Um, so

uh yeah, I uh I'm currently on path to

go to uh medical school um and hoping to

start this summer assuming everything goes well. If not, you know, reapply this summer. Um, but yeah, that's that's

where I'm at at the moment.

>> Okay. Well, I'll give you kudos of of

doing something. You know, there's some 19-year-olds that don't do anything financially. So, the fact that you are at least looking thinking about even like long-term care insurance, which we usually don't tell people they need till they're >> they're >> 60. Yeah. Um, but they off but they sold you a pack of goods, Joseph, and Yeah.

you and you bought in. So, >> the good news is you're only 22. So, I know it feels like, "Oh my gosh, I blew $21,000," which is a lot of money. But

in the grand scheme, a lot of people hang on to these policies for a decade or two and then go, "Oh my gosh, I need to get out of this." So, yes, it was a bad idea. No, you don't need to feel shame. This happens every day from, you know, to well-meaning people, from close family, friends that are looking to make a commission off your back. Because the truth is you don't need life insurance unless someone is depending on your income. So, do you have kids or a wife?

>> No. Um, uh, you know, hopefully not, at

least for another couple of years. Um, I

think it's going to be a stressful in school and whatnot. So, uh, I'm with my parents at the moment. I Okay.

>> Yeah. So, you really don't need life insurance, Joseph, >> at all. And if you want it, get term life in place and then cancel the whole life policy. Surrender it.

>> Mhm. >> And don't listen to whatever they say on the phone. They're going to say, "No, no, no. You need to keep it. Here's why. It's a really good idea to hang on to this. You just need to firmly say, "No, thank you. I want to surrender the policy." >> And then you can start investing, Joseph. Right. That's really where you're going to find um lots of growth

with your money. Not in a whole life policy. A whole life policy basically bundles insurance and investing together in one account with a crappy rate of return versus keeping it separate. So getting term life that has no investments attached to it. It's literally just a term policy a 20 30 40

year whatever you choose but you don't need one. And then you can look at investing. and investing um what your money will do just even in an index fund

or a mutual fund is going to be probably

what six seven times x what you'll

probably get in a standard whole life

policy the growth so um >> instead of 2% return it could be 12% or more >> and so I would get out of this thing ASAP getter term life if you feel like you want it or need it it's going to be a fraction of the price you know whole life is 5 to 15 times more expensive than term. And so I would contact our friends at Xander. They can help you out. You can jump on to xander.com or give them a call 800 3564282

and they'll help walk you through that.

And I hope you qualify. You said you have some health issues. So I don't know what bearing that's going to have on, you know, the underwriting for your life insurance policy. But if you're worried about this becoming a problem in the future, it is wise to get your term life now and get it for a longer period like 25 years.

If you know, hey, I'll be, you know, almost 50 by the time this policy expires, which means the kids are out of the house. My spouse is going to be okay.

You don't need it for your whole life.

>> Would it be a good idea for me to wait until that surrender charge goes away?

>> Just it's it's a sunk cost fallacy. I would just go, "All right, I'm gonna pay whatever I need to pay for the penalty and move on with my life." You'll get the cash value out, which I don't know what that will be. You can do the math and figure that out, but just take what you can and move on with your life. I wouldn't hang on to it for another day.

>> Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. It's just uh I don't

know. It just I guess it sounded real nice. I mean, they they showed me like a bunch of like returns like >> Yeah, I would too. If I was selling whole life insurance, I would make it look like the best thing since sliced bread. But the truth is, as you found online, literally no financial adviser with, you know, that isn't just secretly an insurance salesman would say this is a good idea for a 19-year-old.

>> It's a horrible product and almost everyone in the financial space knows that except for people that sell it. So, >> and they go by sketchy names like I'm a wealth strategist and they're secretly just whole life insurance salespeople.

So, just I know it sounded good, but >> and they mix up the names. It'll be universal. They have all these >> index universal life and then they have like whiteboards where they'll draw and you're going to basically become your own bank and you can take your own money out tax-free by taking out a loan against your policy and paying yourself the interest. That's what the wealthy do. Don't listen to any of this crap.

>> No. >> So, I'm sorry you fell for it, my man.

Brody is in Lexington, Kentucky up next.

What's going on, Brody?

>> Hey, George Rachel, thank you guys so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's your question?

So, um, my question is me and my wife have had our, uh, we got a car that's overheating at this point. It looks like it's going to cost more to fix it than the car is actually worth. And we're wondering if, um, if you guys would recommend what's the wisest financial decision, whether it's to just sell it or whether it's to try and trade it into dealership or what the best option would be in this case. >> So, what's the car worth and what's the repair going to cost?

Uh, I think it's worth according to the private sale and Kelly Blue Book, it's somewhere in the realm of 4,000 is is like the value, but the way it's overheating right now, it's barely drivable. So, I don't know if we'd be able to sell it for hardly if we're even that. >> So, 4,000 if it's in good shape. It's still running properly.

>> Um, yes. >> Okay. Have you got quotes from multiple mechanics?

>> Uh, we have not. We actually tried reaching out to a couple of other mechanics uh other than the one that we had it at for like a few months and uh

most other mechanics said they don't work on Volvos. They recommended the mechanic we already had it at.

>> Okay. What did they say the repair cost will be?

>> Uh 6,900 roughly.

>> Goodness gracious. >> Oh man. >> Do you guys have any money saved that you could use to buy something else?

>> Um we do. We have um we have over we

have over 40,000 in all of our accounts uh together. So we could we could buy another vehicle. We're just trying to figure out how to minimize our losses on this one. >> I mean, I think it's going to be one of those the dealership buys it for scraps and they give you a,000 bucks.

>> Okay, >> that's the truth. If it really is a $7,000 repair, >> I know. That's why I'd love a second opinion if you can find one. I know that you may. I know you guys have tried, but >> yeah, there's there's probably other mechanics that specialize in Volvos and European vehicles, and so you might need to find I would at least get one more before you give up on it. But at that point, buy a reasonable car. Make sure that all the vehicles in your life are less than half of your annual income.

Pay cash. Don't get hosed. Don't buy brand new. So, what are you thinking of buying?

>> Um, so we haven't really thought much about uh about what we're buying next. I mean, we like old Toyotas just because they've had a better track record for our family. >> Um, something like that.

>> And check out um, yeah, Christian Automotive Brothers, Christian Brothers.

Um, because they do they're they're a great >> Oh, yeah. If you got one in your area, I'd reach out to them for sure. But good luck with this, man. Cars are just one of those things and it's they depreciate. They things go wrong. So, I would just do the best with what you got and you got plenty of money. So, this is a solvable problem and uh grieve the car. Say goodbye.

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to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsay team. Pam

is in Columbia, South Carolina up next.

Pam, welcome to the show.

>> Hello. >> Hey, how can we help?

Um, well, I currently work 70 hours a

week making 83,000 total with 61,000 of that being my full-time job. Um, and I have been offered a position for $108,000.

>> Awesome. um as the full-time position.

Um my dilemma is my full-time job did

pay for my student loans

and I would owe my full-time employer

$5,250 um at departure.

>> All right. >> Um and I don't have $5,250.

Um >> how much do you have? >> So I'm just kind of wondering a way to navigate that. Well, they would keep my last paycheck, which would be around 2,000. Um, and then

other than that, I have $1,000 for the

emergency fund and I have $1,600 set aside to because I'm speaking at a conference in May. >> So, that's your travel, lodging, all of that.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, well, I'm wondering, would

your new employer be willing to cover the gap almost like a sign on bonus if you explain this to them?

>> Yeah, that I don't know. I don't consider that option. >> I would reach out and do it very kindly and just say, "Hey, I'm really excited about this position. There's one snafu.

When I leave this employer, I owe them this much money because of the student loan payoff. Um, is this something that you guys would be willing to cover as part of this new job?" Okay. >> And just see what they say >> because it'll be what? 3,000. Is that what you said? >> That you'll be left after your paycheck.

>> Yeah, they're a little over 3,000.

>> Yeah. >> Are you relocating for this position?

>> No. >> Okay. >> Well, and the 1,600 is not till May. And

you could >> if you you know Yeah. And if the Yep.

And if the um employer you're the new

employer, if you ask them and they're like not comfortable with 3,000, you could say, you know, even 2,000. I mean, I would throw I would throw any cash I had to get out because you can build that back up pretty quick with this new salary.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Within your first paycheck. >> Yeah. The only thing I thought about with the 1,600 is like how am I going to cover my bills with them keeping my last paycheck? I was thinking that between the two. How are you going to float that positions?

because it'll be about three weeks between paychecks because they're on a different pay week than what I currently >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you'll need that buffer, too, for sure. >> I would hang on to it because I don't want you going into debt over this.

>> Yeah. >> The goal is to just try to cash flow it.

Can you talk to your current employer about basically paying it back by a certain date, even after you're gone?

>> I I'm given 30 days after departure is what the contract says.

>> Okay, great. And is your new employer okay with a later start date?

>> Because that's the other option is you go, "Hey, I can't start until this >> with that." >> Okay. I mean, I would explain to them say, "Hey, either I have to start at this later date so I can pay this off or

if you guys could cover the difference, I can start earlier." >> Okay. Yeah, I would definitely be willing to open that conversation because I I don't want to go into debt.

I've been working really hard to get out of debt. Um, but the idea of making that

much more money to be able to out

>> it's stressful and it's, you know, it's part of these employer benefits.

Sometimes there are strings attached where they go, well, I don't want to cover your student loans and you just leave us immediately, which is kind of what's happening here. So, that's why they have these rules in place. But, you got this new great income. I think you're going to pay your debt off in no time.

And remember, do not allow lifestyle creep to happen with your new salary. You're going, "Wow, I can afford more now." No, we're going to use all of this to attack our debt and actually build some wealth for our life. Thanks for the call. Sam is in Los Angeles.

>> Hi. Um, I'm calling because I'm trying to see if I should move to another city

that has a cheaper cost of living in order to afford my own place. SL, is it

smart for me to get my own place? is uh I'm right I'm single and so I'm just trying to figure out what the smartest thing for me to do.

>> Yeah. I I would say it's less about your marital status and more about financially where you are when it comes to buying a home. Are you um do you have consumer debt?

>> I have no debt thanks to you guys.

>> Good for you. That's great.

>> And I recently paid off my mom's parent plus loan that she took out for me. So >> Oh my gosh, Sam. Well done.

>> That's amazing. Thanks to you guys.

>> Yeah. Well, that's amazing. Do you have money saved up for a down payment?

>> Yes, I have money saved up for a down payment as well as um a three to like

five month emergency fund. Um because I do work in TV and film. So, as we know, it's like an unpredictable industry.

>> Um >> how much do you have save for the down payment?

Um, I have 65,000 and then another

10,000 for closing cost saved.

>> Awesome. Okay. And you're in the LA area currently.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So, you're looking at housing prices and you're just thinking, "Oh my gosh, this is >> it's a million dollars for a starter home that I need to do a renovation on."

>> Yeah. And a lot of my friends who did buy are like kind of giving me the real

deal about it, about like being house poor and then the industry slowing down here as well. So, it's just catching up to everything. So, >> that is a real fear. Well, could you even move to another state and still do your job?

>> I can um I was looking at Vegas because I do have some family there and then the commute since I do go there often to visit. It's not as bad, but I also like for the past five years have for the like four or five months I've worked out of the country on other projects. So, Oh, nice. And I've rent. So, that's why I'm really looking to buy because I've literally paid rent while I wasn't even there because I couldn't um rent it out.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, even doing a short-term rental while you're in and out, that's still going to be a different headache. And so, it's going to be difficult either way, but I understand wanting to have your own place. What are you paying for rent right now?

>> I pay 2250, not including utilities.

>> Okay. And what do you make in general on an average year?

Um, for the past five years I made about

like 150 to last year I made 230 but I

am self-employed. So that is uh no no

taxes taken out yet. >> Oh, so you got to pay the quarterly taxes out of that.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So that's your gross income. Well, you have a great income and truthfully I think you're not going to be able to get a mortgage for 2250 right now based on the numbers that you've given us.

you know, putting 65 grand down on a million-doll home is going to be a massive mortgage. And so, I would just wait and keep saving, keep renting. And down the road, if you're still like, "Hey, I really want my own place." You might need to go further out, but again, that's going to be a longer commute if you're way out of LA area that you're going to have to deal with. So, just you're trading one problem for another and you just have to make peace with that.

>> Yeah. or what you said, Sam, option three is just moving to a completely different area and seeing, you know, you own your own business, seeing how you can keep it afloat because it sounds like you you're great at it, right?

live somewhere cheaper, that's the best of both worlds in my opinion cuz yeah, we I mean we've se we talked to a lot of people that end up leaving um whether it's, you know, the New York area, California, just because of cost of living. like I would rather live somewhere and have margin financially to be able to do things and have fun than yep be house poor just to live in this one specific area, you know, and I understand people have family and friends and a life that they've built in an area, but at the end of the day, it is kind of like, hey, what what is going to create a level of peace for me?

um I think a lot of people have made the decision to to leave to a more affordable cost of living area.

>> I mean, even the taxes alone, you're probably taking home half of that, right?

Yeah, it's it's super it's been really

really expensive being here. And it's not even the cost of living too. It's just like I've been here for 10 years and every time I come back after a job, it doesn't feel like home. So that's another reason why I looked at other places.

>> Yeah. I mean, even if you take a pay cut and your quality of life is higher and you can afford a house, that might be a better life. Even if it means switching your job or career field, I think your skills will transfer, especially as a small business owner. So, it's a big decision.

We can't tell you exactly what to do, but I hope we gave you some questions to be asking and some insights.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, joined by my co-host Rachel Cruz, also my co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour. You can catch all of that on the Ramsey Network. We've got Sarah up next in Orlando, Florida.

What's going on Sarah?

Hi, I am struggling with my husband

lying to me financially. Um, I've been

struggling with this for about 2 years and I'm just wanting some advice on how to fix this. >> Oh gosh, Sarah, what's he uh you said he's lying about your money. What's what's um an example of that? What does that mean?

>> So, I first found out about that he had been lying our whole marriage a couple years ago. He had a large chunk of money from the sale of a house that he had put into or he told me he put into a high yield savings account.

>> And when we got to the point of talking

about buying a house, it came out that he had been completely lying about it that there that he'd spent all the money and had I I still don't know where he

spent all that money. Um there are other times where we'll put money in the safe as like a savings account um just you know in case of emergencies. And I went

in there one day uh last March to get

some money out to pay a bill. And the money was gone. And it's kind of things like this that are consistently happening. >> And what does he say when you confront him? Where does he say the money went?

sometime the $70,000 I'm not sure where

it went even to this day. But for the other stuff, he says that it goes to, you know, if I'm out of town for work, he says that he went and spent it eating out or he went and just bought some

random stuff that we don't really need

um that he's not really going to use um

for him. Are is there actual proof of the things he's saying he's purchasing?

>> Yes. Like I see the receipts from where

he's gone out to eat and you know he brought home a guitar and tried to play it for two weeks and then stopped playing it and now it's just sitting in the closet.

>> Okay. Well, there's a few layers to this and I don't know if there's something more nefarious happening behind the scenes. You know, there's financial infidelity. Is there actual infidelity?

Is there an addiction? Is there gambling? There's so much we don't know because he's not being fully transparent. And that is the only solution. There's the only hope for this marriage is him coming totally clean

>> because right now you can't trust him.

>> Because usually Sarah, if there is a level of deceit financially, not always,

but more than half the time there's something else happening on the other side of that door. And I don't >> they don't just blow 70 grand on some toys. >> Yeah. And I don't know what that is, what that looks like, but my my fear is his character is proving out to be that

he lies. He's a liar. He doesn't keep his word. And if he's lying about one area of life, um, again, I pray it's not

the case, but there's a good chance there's other things going on. And so I would for your for your sake of the of the marriage to keep the marriage at all intact, you guys need to sit down with a really really good marriage therapist or counselor and start hashing out. Again, it's not just that it's not just the money piece. This always goes deeper.

This is always it's usually never a money issue. It usually starts to show

itself as a as a marriage issue. And that's what this is. This is a man who

has to make a decision on whether he's going to choose to rebuild trust with his wife Sarah and you you guys will

create a road map over a long process of that healing journey for you to be able to trust him again or if the patterns

continue. I don't know how you stay married to someone that continues to lie to you.

Well, and that's that's the hard thing because in in a lot of ways he he's

great. He he helps out around the home.

He is very encouraging and and spiritually, you know, I don't really believe in divorce. And so, it's hard cuz our whole lives are intertwined. Um, you know, we go to church together.

Like, I want to be led by a godly man.

And it's hard to recognize.

>> Sarah, you're not. You're not though.

You're not. He took $70,000

Sarah and lied about it. You guys have a

have a agreement that you're going to put money over here and he chooses to be a selfish a selfish child and go buy a freaking guitar. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it it is it it's pretty glaring and and I don't I don't I don't trust him. And so no, that's not a man who leads you spiritually, Sarah. No, you can't put a spiritual umbrella over this. This is wrong. This is wrong.

>> Okay.

>> And I'm sorry. I don't mean to be harsh about it, but >> No, something that I need to hear.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's just and and we're a third party that doesn't know you from Adam. So, when you give us information that you've been used to holding, it's become normalized to you, but you say it to us and we're like, >> no. And again, I don't not saying he's a bad guy. I'm not saying he like has a double life or something >> and he can be a good guy in a lot of other ways, but it doesn't matter if you can't trust him. You understand? That's the root of this whole thing.

>> And I'm sure he's a he's a hard worker and he goes to church. He can check all the boxes, but if you can't trust him and he constantly lies to you, there is no relationship here.

And so that I starting today, I'd say, hey, I'm a joint owner on every single bank account, every account in our life.

And if you say no to that, we can't move forward. >> Yeah. And and and it's a spectrum here, Sarah. Again, we we can we jump probably to the dramatics because we do this show for a living.

So, I feel like we we hear some of the craziest stories. So, yes, it could be that he's just sloppy with money. He's irresponsible. He's immature about it and he needs to grow up.

That's that's a best case scenario. >> That's the best case scenario. You know what I mean?

>> And so >> it's um yeah, he needs he needs to step up and be a man. And if he can't own this or understand the seriousness of

what he has eroded in your marriage trustwise, um >> if he brushes it off and goes, "Well, you know, I just I I bought some toys while you were out of town. My bad.

That's not enough." >> Yeah. And and and you too, Sarah, you know, on your end, you got to decide what if it's that serious to you. And it may not be. You may get off this call and be like, I can function in this for the rest of my life.

And you may choose to. I don't know. Because it's the harder work to not sweep things under the rug. and actually to pull the rug out and deal with the crap that's sitting right there.

That's the that's marriage work. Like that's the hard work in marriage. It's so much easier to be like, "It's not a big deal.

have. But if you guys want to do the work to dig deeper, not only financially can you be healed, but I think you'll have a much healthier, real, honest,

authentic relationship in your marriage as well, which is probably the ultimate goal, you know.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> We're hoping for healing for you, but you've got some hard work ahead of you >> and it's red flags. So, here >> tough conversations and how he reacts is going to be very telling. Yes.

>> And I love the quote, when someone shows you who they are, believe them. And so the more he shows you that he can't be trusted, the more you have to realize he's just not a trustworthy person and I can't change him and therefore I am not safe in this relationship. That's it.

That's the hard truth. And uh I hope you guys have some good uh counseling and

church family that can help support you through this. I hope there's healing and redemption on the other side. >> Get some healthy spiritual Christian people around you. Healthy, healthy.

>> Bring it all into the light. That's the path forward.

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Hope is on the line in Albuquerque.

What's going on, Hope?

>> Hi, you guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm excited to have you guys because my question is regarding the Tesla. Yes, you called the right

people today because if Dave was on air, he would have hung up on you.

>> You call me back when you want to buy a real car. >> Two Tesla drivers. Okay.

>> What's the question? Because we're probably going to say yes.

>> I hope we can. >> Oh. So, my husband and I, we're debtree. We both work in the trades and we make about 7 and a halfk a month. Um, so I don't know what that is yearly. I'm not that great with >> Is that your take-home pay?

>> Yes. Okay, great. So, that's coming out to about 90 grand.

>> Okay, perfect. So, but we are 21 and

we're newly married. Um, and we don't need the car necessarily. Both of our cars are paid off. Um, I tried to do the calculations of what

our cars are worth. Mine is about five, but my husband's is different. Um, and I can explain that

he drives a 1996 Range Rover. So, real

old, but >> hope he knows how to fix cars.

>> Oh my gosh, it's a nightmare.

>> Oh no. >> But it's a sentimental thing for him.

Um, he bought it from his parents for four grand, but similar models have sold for much higher

at auction. So, I don't know how to calculate that one. So therefore, I'm

not sure if it's wise for us to buy a Tesla because we're not getting rid of either of our cars.

>> Well, let's say you kept him and let's say his cars are I mean, it's a 1996.

Can we call it, you know, a low on the low side of the auction?

>> Yeah, we could. Um I think the last two

that I saw were about 25 grand.

>> Okay. So, we'll say you got 30 grand worth of vehicles right now. And we base it off of your gross household income, which is going to be more than that 90.

So, it's probably more like 120 is what you guys are, you know, your taxable income.

>> So, how much is this Tesla going to cost?

>> So, we were thinking maybe 15 to 20. And

we don't have the money right now that I want to spend on it. Um, so we're going to wait until maybe December. Okay. Till

y'all save up for it.

>> Do you guys have any Do you guys have any consumer debt?

No, no consumer debt. Um, we just have our mortgage. We bought our house in August, so we have about 217,000

on that. >> Okay. >> Um, >> what kind of Tesla are you thinking?

>> You know, that's up to him. I have no idea. I don't understand the difference.

And >> is he going to be driving it mostly?

>> Yes. His car is the older one. Mine's

2012. So >> So this would be his daily driver. And he'll keep the 1996 Range Rover as kind of just sentimental value >> weekend driving. >> Exactly. >> Okay. Well, this is all reasonable so

far. You're paying cash. It's not more than half of your annual household income. You're doing it all the right way. >> You guys have an emergency fund, right?

>> We have six months. >> Yeah. I mean, I would I would be okay with it. I mean, yeah, I think that's part of this uh baby steps four, five, and six. But make sure you're investing in retirement. you know that you're doing all the baseline stuff. You're being generous. You're giving. You guys

have your consistent investments going for retirement. Um but yeah, if you guys want to save up and >> and you're buying. So that's the that's the goal. >> Buy used, pay cash, not more than half your annual income.

>> Hope I love when we get to say yes to a felt really good purchase. >> I know. I love it so much. >> Usually it's some dude going, "Uh, I want to save on gas, so can I spend $50,000 and take out a loan to get a Tesla?" The answer is no, Brad.

>> I know. That's great. >> That's a fun one. Okay, Courtney's in DC up next. Courtney, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, I'm really excited to be here.

Thanks, guys. >> Yeah, good to have you. How can we help?

>> So, yeah. So, my question is, I recently just came into making both 1099 income and W2 income. Um, and I am just having

a little bit of trouble figuring out if I should be doing like being in an LLC

um, to help myself save money and if I should be doing the self-employment retirement plan to also reduce my taxes.

U, my goal is just to save as much money as possible. So, I'm just kind of on a beginner. >> How much are you making at both your full-time job and then your um 1099?

So, the total um household income my wife and I make between 164,000 and

197,000. Okay. >> The 1099 specifically is just me. That's between um 25 and 37,000.

>> Okay. So, you make 37

>> um plus my W2 money. But yeah, >> which was what how much do you make in your W2?

>> Um between my two jobs, I make about 75,000. >> Okay. >> Okay. What what kind of work is the 1099?

>> It is social media management.

>> Oh, okay. So, you don't need an LLC.

>> That's more of a liability protection

category versus I need this because I run a business. You can just do a schedule C and be a sole proprietor and

do that for the foreseeable future and just make sure you pay your quarterly estimated payments to the IRS.

>> Right. Okay. >> Yeah. I have to say if it becomes your main source of income, like if you end up tripling it or something, then I feel like you could probably >> This is a long-term business that you're going to have, >> look into more commitments, meaning even

the retirement account. Uh, yep. And if you're going to, you know, be hiring someone under you, like all of that, if it starts to expand into something bigger because you're making so much more, then you can kind of consider that next step in the small business world.

But for now, you're kind of just, you know, you you freelance, which is great that you're making an extra 37,000 doing this. >> If you start making 50K, 100K, I would contact a CPA and figure out what the best status would be for you because it might be like an escorp versus an LLC and they can walk you through all the differences and which one would be more beneficial for you.

>> Okay. And then the the part about the retirement plans, we usually have about $2,000 left over every month. Um, and I

just don't know if I should be putting it there or if I should be putting it just like in our mutual fund.

>> What options do you currently have through your employer for retirement?

>> So, my W2 income doesn't have any retirement attached to it. Um, my wife's does. She has 6% that she's putting in.

It gets a 6% match.

>> We both >> Yeah. So, 6% for both. And then we both do max out our Roth IAS.

>> Great. Great. >> Yeah. I would focus on maxing out all the tax advantaged retirement accounts first.

So for her that might mean we're going to max out her retirement. And if there's money beyond that, we've done, you know, the IAS, we've maxed two of those out. We've maxed out the 401k. If you have an HSA, a health savings account through your high deductible health plan, you can max that out as well.

And so those would be all the options I'd go to first before just going outside of retirement into like a brokerage account and investing in some mutual funds. >> Yeah.

feel like you can kind of check off cuz you can't touch that money till you know you're 59 and a half. So if you have more to invest, that's when it would be like, "Okay, yeah, why don't you just get Yeah. a brokerage account, index fund or something because it could be money that you guys may want to use in the next five years, you know what I mean?" Where retirement, it's really locked up, but for tax purposes, it's wonderful. Um, especially the Roth IRA.

So those are always the first buckets to fill to make sure retirement's good. And then any investing beyond that, um,

definitely is an option down the road.

>> Yeah. And there's some nerdier options.

I won't get deep in the weeds, but there's something called a mega backdoor Roth 401k where you can actually contribute after tax dollars into the 401k and then convert it. And so that might be an option through your employer. You have to have an employer that allows both the inplan conversions and the after tax contributions. >> But again, that extra extra you can't touch till you're 59.

You have to.

>> Yep. >> Okay. But you're crushing it. Way to go.

>> Well done. >> Quite the work ethic.

>> That's amazing. >> Look at you. That mega backdoor Roth, George. That's why we love hosting.

>> It sounds like a seven-year-old came up with it. >> She loves >> mega back door. It's all right, bud.

Settle down. Go play with your toys.

>> The giant >> like why mega? It sounds like something Trump named, but it's existed long before Trump.

>> One big beautiful mega back door.

>> Just a mega just a mega back door. It's a good >> back door. We're sneaking in the back door. >> Not enough people are talking about it.

>> I know, George. That's why we love you.

>> I'm the only one in America, me and some financial advisors. >> We love that, George. >> Because you got the backdoor Roth IRA, you have the mega back door 401k.

>> If your brain hurts, you're not alone, America. >> Rachel is done with this conversation.

So am I.

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We wish that we could get to every call and question here on the show. The inbox is completely full of your wonderful questions. The calls have been lined up and we can't get to them all. So, if you have a money question, you want an answer for your situation, we've got you covered. Head over to our website and use our new Ask Ramsey AI tool. It's

completely free. It's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. I've been stress testing this, Rachel, and I've been so impressed with the level of knowledge it has. It sounds like us on the show because it's trained >> by all of our articles and all the things we say on the show. >> Yes. I was going to say that's how And when I say feed, I don't even know really what that means, right? you feed the AI of all of our advice >> and it's hungry >> from from the show articles, our team.

So, it really is buttons up. It's It's amazing. >> Yeah, you're not going to get this from Google cuz it's taking in way too many sources. It's going to cloud the judgment.

And so, if you want your question answered Ramsay style, go do it for free today. Ramseyolutions.com is the place to go. And you'll see a big like search bar in there. That's the Ask Ramsey AI tool.

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>> Yes. >> And some people were DMing me. One girl

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Enter the question in the Ask Ramsey search bar there on the homepage or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Mary is in New York City up next. Mary, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you so much for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can Rachel and I help?

>> Um, awesome. So um, first I'm so grateful for finding you all. Seven months ago, I decided I'm making too much money to be stressed about money.

Got the Every Dollar app and it's completely changed our spending habits and we actually budget now.

>> Oh, I love it. Well done.

>> What a great testimonial.

>> Then awesome. Um, so we are on baby step two. In the next couple months, I expect to have about a $20,000 inheritance

coming to me. Um, we have 43,000 left on

a heliloc. That's our remaining debt.

Um, but in order to solidify this behavioral change, I'd rather put the 20k in our emergency fund and to con

continue to work and pay off the debt ourselves, I consider it like a $1,200 interest um stupid tax if we're able to

pay it off when we should be able to pay it off by October 1st this year. Um, is it sensible to take uh that interest loss as a stupid tax in order to uh kind

of maintain our discipline and earn being debtree?

I would say, Mary, your behavior's already been changed. I mean, you guys are paying off debt. You're budgeting.

You're in it. You're >> angry at your past decisions and you're never going to do it again. >> I don't think that this is going to be a windfall that you guys pay off half the HELOC when you receive this 20 grand and then suddenly go back in your old ways.

If anything, I think it >> it's exciting. It's a little bit of that like, oh my gosh, we just were given a gift to fast forward this process so quickly. And then once it's all paid off, then you can have all of your income to build the emergency fund back.

So, I would keep the baby steps in order. Um, I hear what you're saying and I so appreciate that because sometimes that is our caution if we have people that are just starting this process and they do get >> a big loss, you know, they um they had a lawsuit so they get a, you know, a check from that, a settlement or >> they go, I'm going to just sell the house and use that to pay off the debt but never change my spending behavior.

>> Yes. But you guys have changed your behavior is what it sounds like to me.

I'd give yourself probably more credit.

>> Okay. >> And it's going to light a fire under you to not have an emergency fund. have that $1,000 only while you attack the HELOC.

>> And guess what? You get the discipline and behavior change of having to build up an emergency fund from scratch.

>> So, you will you will get to eat your vegetables soon enough.

>> Sounds good. Yeah, the emergency fund being at a thousand and not contributing to retirement has been a lot of fire.

>> That's that's more behavior change right there if you're willing to stick that out through the debt payoff >> versus getting a little too comfortable having 20 grand sitting in savings.

She's like, "Well, I mean, we're going to be okay." Something happened.

>> Mary, how much do you guys make a year?

>> Uh, we uh just hit about uh 300 before

taxes and all that. >> Amazing. Yeah. >> So, this debt's gone within a few months anyways.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that's the plan.

>> Okay. >> So, either way, in six to nine months, you're going to end up in the same place. But, you know, regardless if you keep this in an emergency fund or whatnot, but I would just throw it at the debt and just keep that keep that process. >> And the money you save in interest, you can give to a a wonderful cause once you guys are debtree with an emergency fund.

So, don't punish yourself just for fun.

>> Okay, that sounds good. Thank you so much. >> Well done, Mary. Excited for you all.

>> Fantastic. All right, Anna is in Columbia, South Carolina up next. What's going on, Anna?

>> Hey, how are you? >> Great. What's your question?

>> Good. Um, yeah. So, we're kind of in a

difficult situation. Um, my husband and I were pretty much forced back in November to pretty much restructure our entire financial um, dilemma cuz his

they made a mistake with his company. He

got a promotion and he was making really good money. So, we were basing a lot of our financial decisions off of this income that he was getting. But then they come back nine months later and tell us that this income that he was making was actually a mistake. They made a mistake on his commission.

>> What? >> So they overpaid him and now they're saying, "Hey, we need that money back." >> Well, no, they did. They're not making him pay it back, but he did have his suspicions. Um, you're not really supposed to discuss pay with other employees, but he had other people in his position that he had spoke to and were talking about some some hard things going on with their paychecks because it's all commission driven. and he wasn't really feeling that because his was a lot higher than theirs. Okay.

>> So, he brought it to um brought it to the attention of the um higherups and they looked at it and they said, "Yeah, actually is it's wrong on here." So, >> Oh, no. >> We didn't have to pay it back, but they aren't. But, it is affecting our taxes this year big time because of the withholding. >> Yeah. He wasn't withholding enough. So, you'll have a big tax bill.

>> Yes. So, we're going to owe about 4,000 in taxes this year. >> What were what was he making and now what's the corrected pay?

So he was making about 2500 a week and

now it's more like anywhere between like 12 and 1,500 a week. >> Oh gosh. So it like cut in half.

>> Yeah. So we made some financial decisions along the way based on that income. >> Shoot. What kind of decisions?

>> Yeah. >> Um debt, >> how much >> car payments, credit card?

>> Yeah. Um >> let's not blame the company for that. By the way, we made some decisions to go into debt. >> So that there's there's both and here.

So what is the car loan or loans?

>> Well, I will say this. We have since

this happened, we have gotten on the

best track that we possibly could. We were we did have three vehicles. Now we have two. We we got rid of one of them that we didn't necessarily need. And I actually got rid of the more expensive one that I was paying way too much money on and paid the negative equity with the proceeds from the previous vehicle.

>> Okay. >> So now we're down to about 30,000 for two cars. >> Two cars, 30 grand total and car loans.

What about credit cards?

>> Credit cards, we have about 10,000 credit card debt. >> Okay. Any other consumer debt?

>> Um other than that, I mean it totals to be about 50,000 with the cars and the credit cards. Um, >> oh, so y'all got this new you got this new money and you said we can live it up. >> Yeah. >> And what about the house?

>> The payment started racking up. So that's what I'm that's my question. Um, we have we're willing to do anything we can to just get us back get our heads above water and and actually live and not be house poor.

>> What's your payment every month?

>> 2400. >> O. And yeah, all of our total expenses for housing is around 3,000 a month whenever you add utilities and things like that.

>> So now it's over half your tank home pay.

>> Yeah. So we're thinking, should we sell the house and downsize since the market's kind of trending that way? >> Are you working outside the home? >> Trending down? >> Yes, I have a full-time job.

>> Okay. >> How much are you bringing in a month?

>> Um 52,000 a year.

>> Great. So this is not as on fire as we thought cuz I thought it was basing just on his income. I wouldn't sell the house. >> I think you guys will get your income back up to where this will be a reasonable payment as far as your take-home pay.

I would look at selling one or both of the cars if you want to get out of this faster, but otherwise, you got a great income. Let's focus on knocking out this 50K of debt and never going back in >> and watching lifestyle creep, Anna. You know, like that that range when you get a raise, everyone's like, "Oh, I can spend this much more." And you just keep your lifestyle consistent with that versus living below your means. So, remember that.

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>> Today's question comes from Rebecca in California.

Oh, I just saw I just saw this. Thank you, Rebecca. Should Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce get a prenup considering they both have their own income and careers? >> Wow. This is a Rachel question.

>> Um, yes, Rebecca Taylor Swift should

bring up because I think she's a billionaire. >> Yeah, she's got a higher net worth than him. >> Yeah. less less about the she has her own income and their own career.

>> She's a working woman. Yes, she's a working woman. She's a billionaire. >> But also, when you have a major discrepancy in net worth, um that's one of the only times that we talk about a prenup is probably wise wise to do.

>> So, don't go, "Well, Rachel told Taylor she can get a prenup. Why not me?" >> Yes. >> You don't have a massive business empire and intellectual property and catalog rights and touring companies and everything that Taylor's got going on.

Taylor's prenup compared to Travis is gonna be this thick.

>> We shared the meme on social which was like the lawyers counting money. They're like the lawyer's working on the prenup for Taylor and Travis. >> That's right. I know. I know. So, yes, I would um very much say, as she should,

Taylor Swift, I would get a prenup.

>> And Travis, very successful NFL player.

>> Yes, >> he's got a lot of assets, too. And so I think it is wise for those two people to have just some clarity about here's what we're bringing into the marriage. Here's how we're going to handle it. Here's what happens if the unthinkable happens.

>> That's right. >> That's okay to do when you have that level of wealth. >> For sure. For sure. Oh, Rebecca, thanks for the question. >> Did you get an invite to their wedding?

>> No, not yet. Okay. I'm still holding >> I love the yet. I love the optimism you have that you will get invited somehow.

>> Somehow >> you'll be lucky to get a ticket to the live stream. >> Sure.

But you'll make that. >> I hope they live stream it. They won't. I hope for I hope for their sake they keep it private. You know, >> I would charge tickets and then give the money to charity. That would be the ultimate power move.

>> Oh, like a pay-per-view situation.

>> 100 bucks to watch. All proceeds go to >> Oh gosh. >> to their favorite charity.

>> Why nobody has done that is beyond me.

Guys, do I have to come up with all the ideas here? >> Yeah, that's actually a great idea.

>> I would have done it if I thought anybody would buy tickets to see my wedding.

Oh my gosh. Well, you're such a generous guy. >> Thank you. Zach is in Nashville up next.

What's going on, Zach?

>> Hey guys, how you doing? Um, so my question is, uh, how do I determine my salary value as a project manager in my field if I don't have too much to go off of? Um, I put 2.8 million in the ground in 8 months, um, starting out with this company. uh brought it from a 600-year

uh yearly revenue to 2.8 million. Uh my salary is 50,000 right now base. I got a

bonus of two grand and extra paycheck for Christmas. But I work 80 to 100 hours 7 days a week on call all the time. Got a wife and a eight-month old baby. >> Oh my gosh. What do you do?

>> I'm a fencing project manager.

>> Fencing, you said?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Why are you still with this company? because it feels like you've been mistreated or at least you feel that way.

>> Well, the the owners let me know that there's some big salary things ahead.

Um, and I'm coming up on my one-year negotiation. So, I've reached out to other franchise owners, PMs, and stuff like that, and they're making about 70 80 running a five to 7 million, three to

7 million operation. Um, I'm running this one alone since when when the proposal's accepted. I handle everything. Materials, client relations, installation, quality walks, everything.

>> Do you have any commission buildings?

>> Uh, no. And that's kind of another thing I'd need advice. >> Why don't you just move into sales? It sounds like you've got some sales skills.

>> Yeah. Um, I I got a bigger picture with

my brother to be in the GC, get back into the GC field. Um, and this is kind of a step along the way.

>> Okay.

Well, I mean, you lay out here's my role. Here's how I've been going above and beyond. Here's what I'm bringing to the table. Here's how I increase revenue. And if they go, well, yeah, yeah, one day, but here's a little two grand raise for all your hard work.

Thanks, bud. I think that's clear that they're not going to value you as much as you feel like you're valued and it's time to look for a different employer. >> And you've been there for a year. You've obviously made some major moves to help them grow the business. So, I would ask them, hey, what is a what does a path look like for me to grow my income? And

have them answered, too, because, you know, I mean, it's their response. They're the ones that are going to make the call. So, I would be curious if you just have an open-ended question to them of, hey, what's a what's a not only a career path within this company, but for a for salary growth, what does that look like? And if they don't really have a plan or they're not looking for a plan, then you then I guess that's a call you're going to have to make.

Yeah, he's mentioned something about um matching for contributions for kids college and stuff. I'm still waiting to Nothing's really been happened, you know what I mean? A lot of talk.

>> Uh two, three months.

>> Okay. >> How old are you?

>> 25. >> Okay. If I'm in your shoes, the best ammo you might have is looking at another employer who sees what you've been doing and you go, "Hey, this is how I help the revenue. Here's what I've been doing. Is there a position here where I can add some value?" And just see, you might double your pay without having to sit here and negotiate for another two grand raise.

But if the writing's on the wall and they're just kind of promises, then I wouldn't be there much longer.

>> Much Yes, sir. >> But I mean, it's a simple conversation.

Hey, I think I'm adding value to the organization and if I am, I'd love to talk about how that can show up in my paycheck in a reasonable way. >> How many how how big is the team, Zach?

>> Um, I run three crews myself. One is

eightman crew, one is a fourman crew, and one's a two to three man crew. Um, but we keep them, two of them fed six days a week. >> Okay. >> And they're happy.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, just the the fact that you're working 80 hours a week making 52,000. That doesn't >> essentially you're making 25 grand, which is like $12 an hour. Yeah.

>> So, that's where I go. Clearly, if this is what's expected and required of you for this 50 grand, I would not do it anymore.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, if you're as sharp as you say you are, I think you can get hired elsewhere and make more. >> Have some humility, too, in the conversation. You know, you haven't been there a year. >> No guns ablazing here. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I would I would I would make it a conversation.

And again, the way they run the business, it's a small business. They may not have the structure in place cash flow-wise. I mean, who knows what how healthy the company is. >> He's saying, "Well, I brought it from this much to this much in revenue." >> I don't know what they're doing with the revenue either.

You know what I mean? They're maybe buying a building. I mean, I don't know. Like, so you you got to get a a big picture, too, of what's going on.

>> Let's get to Jeff in Phoenix. Jeff, how can we help?

>> Hey, how are you doing? >> Great. >> Good. Hey, so my wife and I, we make between 6 to7,000 a month um given

overtime or commissions. We were kind of stressed about money. Weren't really sure what was going on with all of it.

We downloaded every dollar, been listening for about a month and threw everything in there and kind of came up with nothing. We are out of debt and the

kind of the zero dollars at the end of the budget comes after investing 15%.

But we're looking at um we'd like to be able to pay off our mortgage early, but we just don't see where we can find any extra money. >> So, you have expenses that rack up to $7,000 a month. That's what you're bringing home, >> right?

>> That's where I would dig in. >> Build a budget. Sorry, what?

>> I was saying that's that's the spot to dig in. If you're saying, "Hey, we have a great income. We don't have any debt.

We're investing 15% before this hits our bank account. That tells me there's some high expenses inside of your budget.

>> How much is your mortgage, Jeff?

>> 2,000. >> Okay. Yeah, >> that's reasonable. So, we got another four to 5,000 left. Where are the majority of that going? >> Do you have kids? Daycare?

>> Uh, no kids. It's just the two of us.

Um, I feel like we live pretty comfortably, but not too comfortably. We

Let's see if my every dollar year. I have it open in another tab. Um, we

tithe 10% so around 600. Um,

utilities and HOA that's probably an

additional 400 there. Um, we both travel

over 30 minutes to work. So about 400 on gas, spend 400 on groceries, 200 on

eating out, and then

this is probably where you're going to tell me to cut back a little bit, but probably 500 on just us. all the extra

things. >> Yeah, that hasn't added up to five grand yet. >> No, I'm still at $4,500. There's still another $2,000 here that's unaccounted for. So, what I would do is not just look at what you plan in every dollar, but what your actual bank statement said, and you'll go, "Oh, we got to tighten up in a bunch of these areas." And every dollar will help you find that margin with recommendations.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruz. The number to call isle8825-55225

if you want to join the conversation as we help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Kevin is in Atlanta. What's going on Kevin?

>> Hey, how's it going? Um, so my mortgage is about uh 4 months behind after my

wife just stopped contributing to uh the

household and we are currently in uh

loss mitigation until May. Um, they're

giving us a chance to try to like catch the mortgage back up. However, I'm still

kind of dealing with some financial infidelity from from her. Um, as far as,

you know, neither of us could afford the house without each other. Our mortgage is about $1,700 a month and my income is

7 to $800 a week and hers is about 1,400

every two weeks. and that's after taxes.

So, I was just trying to see if you could give me an idea of uh uh what I

should do as far as the the house goes.

We do have three kids. So, I'll put that in perspective. >> Did you Did she stop working, Kevin? Is that why? >> No. So, she's she's working. Um actually, at the beginning of all this, um I went through a hiccup with my job.

So, she works during the day and I was working overnights and my mother went into the ICU. So, I

had to take about a week off um because

I thought, you know, she was she was on life support. So, I had to go be with her >> and I ended up losing my job. So, it took me about um 3 weeks to find another

job and then when I did it was during the day. So, then child care, I was having to pay for that as well. Um, so

then >> why do you keep saying you were having to pay for it? How about we had to pay for it as a household? Right.

>> There is no And honestly that's where I've kind of made a mistake from the very beginning. Um, everything has been

separate from the very beginning, you

know, and I believe I do believe all of

her money is going towards the kids, but

I think it's a little ridiculous. like she uses the firm website

>> um buy now pay later >> and yes found out that later right so Christmas any holidays birthdays >> it's all in payments >> um anything you can think of it's all she orders the stuff off Amazon and they

just pop it right out of her check so >> are you guys living together still >> we do we do live together >> so what what's the dynamic like right now cuz you've been throwing out a lot of words like infidelity and she stopped stop contributing. Have you guys had a conversation about what's going on?

>> Uh the best that the best that we could.

Um yeah, I mean >> I mean she does understand she's going to get foreclosed on if she doesn't choose to contribute. You know what I

mean? Like like as a house yeah as a household we have to pay our mortgage however that gets paid out of any it doesn't matter whose check. We got to pay the mortgage.

>> So I don't understand what she's >> expecting is going to happen.

you know, I really don't either. And then I've kind of I've always been the the uh the bill payer and like the take

care of everything, you know. So, like I'm the one who kind of worked out the um the financial plan with the the

mortgage company. I've explained it to her the best that I could of of how the loss mitigation works. Basically, I think we're on like a forbearance plan to where it just gives us enough time to get caught up to keep >> a sense of urgency here. Kevin, I'd talk with her tonight and say, "This is on fire. We are about to lose the house.

Our kids need a roof over their heads.

What are we doing?" >> Way and the way we've been doing this sucks. This is horrible.

>> Like you Venmoing me for the mortgage and then it doesn't come through and now I can't pay the mortgage payment. This is not working. So even if it's just for the kids right now to have some safety and security, she needs to pitch in,

>> right? >> And if she's out of control spending, then you need to reroute the money into a bank account that you at least can see. >> Yeah, that's the that's the thing that has to happen in the next week or two because you guys have to >> start, you know, paying back on this.

But then overall, Kevin, you can't we can't function like this, you know what I mean? I mean, long term in the marriage. And so for did does she have

any urgency to work on money with you

and for you guys to be a team? Because always couples that have this this split of a mindset in such a big topic like money, I just assume you don't have a great marriage.

>> We we definitely do not right now. And um I tried to sit down and budget with her and in fact I downloaded an app um

besides Every Dollar because our lives are hectic cuz we have been working opposite shifts. So I'm like a great way to effectively communicate financially.

There's an app um called Honeydew and it just allows you to view each other's bank accounts. So I know how much she has, she knows how much I have and it kind of becomes more >> it's not really getting to the root of the problem. Yeah, I hear you. It's less about visibility and it's more about unity. >> Yeah. >> Oh, >> right. And she just again she's like, "We can budget without knowing where every dollar is going." And I'm like, "That's literally the name of of Dave's

budget app is every dollar." So,

>> you know, um, >> it sounds like you guys have a bunch of consumer debt, too.

>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I um it's I don't know, to be honest. I don't even know what all debts she has >> because >> you probably don't. >> Um, >> well, fun homework assignment. You guys both pull your credit reports tonight.

You can do it for free. annualcreditreport.com.

And you're going to find out and we're going to say, "Hey, all cards on the table. >> What are all the debts we have? We got to clean this mess up." And again, I don't care if you hate each other, but you need to do this for the security of your own family in general. >> Keep the house. Yeah. And then you guys need to have kind of a reset, Kevin, of

um of where you guys want to be, you know, as a couple in the next two, three, four years. You guys need to I mean, truly have this picture of this is

what I want. This is what what John Deloney says that this is what I want our home to feel like. What do we want our home to feel like? What do we We're raising our children in this home. We are in this marriage together. you know, you can make choices to change habits, to change the way you've been doing marriage and and completely turn it on

its head and do the complete opposite, right? Because right now it's just chaos and division versus peace and unity. And

if that's what you both want working together, um yeah, I would I would lay out a road map for you, you know, and just say, where do we want to be in 24 months? Like in 2 years, what would the ideal life look like, feel like, and how

do we reverse engineer that to decisions that we have to make today? Some of the stuff's on fire, like what George is saying, we got to get the mortgage paid.

I mean, there's some of that that's like, but overall, what does it look like to truly have a healthy marriage where we are a team in this and together, you know, we're making decisions together. We both have input regardless of who brings in the income.

This is a household that we have chosen to be a part of. And so, when the money hits the account for the household, how are we going to budget it together? And out of that creates the unity. But sometimes you have to do those rigorous steps first, you know, to to get to

where you want to go. But that's part of figuring out though where you even want to be as a as a couple. >> Yeah. I don't Is she has she opted out of this marriage? I mean, you mentioned the word infidelity. I don't know if that's just financial. Financial, I think. >> Okay. Is that true?

>> As far as I as far as I know, it's just

financially. Um, >> well, you guys make $6,000 takehome from what I gathered, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. That is above the average take-home pay for a household in America, and you guys are living well below average lives right now. And so that's the reset we need. It's not an attack on her and attack on you and who's right and who's wrong. It's we need unity. We make too much to feel this broke and these kids deserve some shelter over their heads. This is stupid to lose the house over being ununified.

I wish you the best.

All

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That's rammissysolutions.com/

is in Chicago up next and welcome to the Ramsey show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. What's your question today?

>> So, we have three young adult children.

Two of them are very responsible and respectful. The third is terrible with money, spends money as fast as he can get it, and he also has a major lying problem. So, currently, our relationship is very strained. He's not living with us, and he's not living uh a life that we can support right now.

In the meantime, we are looking to rewrite our wills or set up a revocable living trust. So, how can we set this up? So, if we were to die before he matures or changes direction here that

he would have to demonstrate necessary qualities before receiving his inheritance and at what point does he simply forfeit his share? And what do we do with that share then? And also, of course, we do not want to be the cause that our adult children do not get along after we're gone. But we also don't want this gift that we've worked so hard for to be wasted.

>> You're asking the right questions, Ann. And I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. It's It's not how you picture it when you imagine being able to bless your family and leave a legacy and now you can't even trust the child to handle it. >> Correct.

>> But you're doing the right steps. I mean, a revocable living trust is the move and you can customize the provisions and you'll need a strong trustee to actually carry this out. But you can time it all.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. And if that's it, Ann, I would communicate it. It's going to be really hard, but I would rather him hear that from you all at some level than the

reading of the will, you know, if you guys pass away. Um >> Okay. >> That and then I would >> so have a conversation with all three of them. >> I would. Yeah.

>> Okay. To let them know, >> let them get mad at you while you're alive instead of getting mad at the siblings when they had nothing to do with this. >> Yeah. And I would have the conditions have someone >> um Yeah. Whether it's the trustee, whoever it is, that it's not one of your children that has to monitor his behavior because that could make the

relationship really odd, right? So, if there's a good family friend that you trust, but I would not I would not um

put one of the siblings in that position because I think that could um definitely cause tension, you know, and be very clear on those conditions too, right?

Not subjective. Um as clear as you can

be is going to be the best. And and it is I'm with George. I'm like, it is so it is so heartbreaking because money is such a magnifying glass. It makes us more of what we already are.

And if there's really, you know, horrible habits, things that he's, you know, doing that's damaging himself and then you put money on that, it's that yeah, it's gonna it's gonna make his life even worse, right? Where money is supposed to be a blessing in that. So, I think there's definitely some wisdom and it is very >> it's very sad. It's very very heartbreaking, but I do think there's wisdom in that.

And and my prayer is that yeah, he >> he wakes up.

>> 90. >> 19. >> Mhm. >> Okay. 19. All right. You know, we're all a little >> There's still time. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. I'm glad he's not like 40. That makes me feel better. >> He's not too set in his ways. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But um Yeah.

>> But you can always change it later.

>> Being specific like what could

>> here's an example. You could say, "Hey, there's going to be a sobriety requirement and a debt-free requirement, and every month we're going to check your credit score and do a drug test, and if it's clear, you will get $5,000

every month." So, you can set it up to be as specific and nuanced as you want.

And a good estate attorney can help you set all that up because they've seen it all. They've seen it go wrong. They've seen it go right. And so I'm just giving you an example of how nuanced and specific you can get because it's your money and you can have as much oversight as you want and as much strings attached as you want, especially if you're worried about them.

>> What I wouldn't do is make one of the siblings the trustee cuz now he becomes the bad guy. And so you want a strong third party, a professional trustee through a company that specializes in this. That way he doesn't get to fight the siblings. They go, "Hey, we got nothing to do with it and we can't do anything about it." >> Yeah.

>> Right. Right. I understand that. All right, >> but good luck in the meantime.

I know it's hard because he's an adult now and he can make adult decisions and you wish you could just be like, I want the best for you. Change, please.

take a little bit more rock bottom to get him to to have his prodigal son, you know, home returning home moment, >> right? I understand. Thank you.

>> Absolutely. Man, that's a tough one. All

right, Kristen is in Illinois up next.

Kristen, welcome to the show.

>> Uh oh. Can I hear you, Kristen? Loud and clear. Speak. Can you hear me? Yes, that's better. >> Hey. Hi. Thanks for taking my call. So, my question is about affording a larger house for my growing family. We live in a pretty small house right now and financially we're doing well, but I feel like I'm really asking my kids to sacrifice too much instead of providing for them. >> What kind of sacrifices are they making?

Are they working the fields all day?

>> No, kind of. We have chickens, but >> Oh, good. They should be working out there. >> Yeah. No, they I mean, like any kids, they have hobbies. Like my 13-year-old really likes to do Legos, but our house is so small and now we have a baby that he really can't enjoy. He can't have most of any of his things inside the house. A lot of their toys um that they've had over the years are in the garage and they just there's not enough room for them really to be normal kids.

>> How many kids do you have?

>> We have two. We have three now. So, three boys. >> And how many bedrooms?

>> There is three bedrooms, but we use one as an office. >> Okay. One of you works from home.

>> We both work from home. Yeah. >> Okay. And what's the square footage?

>> We have 1,50 square ft.

>> Okay. So, it is tight. I mean, that's that's legit. You're not making this up.

What would a bigger house cost you guys?

And could you afford it? In our area, a bigger house would go easily for $365,000.

Um, and I'm honestly not sure if we could afford it, but everyone I feel like everyone is telling me, hey, you guys just have to pull the trigger and do it because if you don't take any risks, you'll never get anywhere.

>> Everybody doesn't pay your bills. You pay them. >> And everybody is broke, Kristen. So, >> so I wouldn't be asking for their opinion. Truthfully, what I would do is just look at the facts and go, "Okay, our income is $10,000 a month, so

therefore we can afford $2,500 on a mortgage." >> Yeah. What's your income a month?

>> My husband makes $80,000 a year. Um I

used to make 80,000 a year, too, but since the baby's been born, I really haven't been able to do much.

>> Yeah. >> Um so it's going to be that way until he's in kindergarten at least. Like two, three more years. >> What hits your account every month with just your husband's income? Is it around 7,000?

>> Um, yeah, >> probably around that. Okay. Um,

so yeah, I mean, I would be, yeah, looking for a home, and you'll have to do the math on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage where the payment is no more than 25% of your take-home pay. What could you sell your house for today? How much would your house go for?

>> It would go for 165 to 180.

>> Okay. And how much do you guys owe on it? We only owe about 60,000. We've run

a 15-year fixed mortgage at 2% flat.

>> Okay. So, you could walk away with over 100 grand to put down on the next house.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. And if you guys had any Yeah. around a $2,000 mortgage. Um,

you'll have to see. Yeah. With that all, you know, you can do the Ramsey mortgage calculator at ramseyolutions.com and put in with the down payment and everything. And yeah, there's a chance you guys definitely could.

But I went on just a whim like, oh yeah, just you you don't you got to take risks. No, you don't. No, we have facts that you get to make really wise, mature decisions off of because you have numbers, you know, and so let's be wise with that and make sure that again that payment's no more than 25% of your takehome pay. But I think yeah, if um if it all works, I would definitely up I would upgrade, get some more room.

>> Yeah. And he works from home >> most of the time. He worked in an office at at his business like one week out of the month. >> Okay.

Um and that's 15,000 a year.

>> Okay. So, that's eating up a good chunk of your budget as well.

>> Yeah. So, you got to figure out, okay, let's do a budget and yeah, we got about, you know, 1,100 going out to private school. We have this new mortgage, right? theoretically, uh, here's what we need to spend on food.

I mean, yeah, you got to map it out because sometimes you can't have it all, right? I mean, you might I'm not sure depending on how the numbers work. You might be able to we can't have all three. We can't have a big house on a single income and send the kids to private school.

And so, then you get resourceful and go, "All right, we're going to work work this out. He gets a corner of the house or he goes to the office more and we free up a bedroom, which gives us more room for now. Then we're going to save up and upgrade when the time is right.

So, I wish you the best. There's hard decisions here, but I think you guys can make it.

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get that cabin secured. They're they're going fast. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramseyolutions.com/events to book your cabin today. Emma is in

Wilmington, North Carolina up next.

Emma, welcome to the show.

>> Hi guys. Thank you so much for taking my call today. >> Absolutely. What's going on?

>> So, um, I'm a little bit of a situation.

So, uh, me and my husband, we both, um, own businesses and we're both pretty, I guess, entrepreneurial, I guess you can say. And we're keep on having disagreements about how we choose to particularly how I choose to invest in my business and how

I choose to spend my money, how I choose to do like in particularly invest into my business. And I just feel like he's

always micromanaging me about every

single thing that I do for my business while like for me while he's running his business I'm just kind of honey I trust you. But when it comes to like sort of my turn, he is always kind of in there and just it's making like it's making it hard for me to make all these decisions

that I feel like I should be making for my business >> because he doesn't think because there's I mean is it is it like it's a conversation and he gets excited because he loves small business and he's like I want to look at the numbers and talk to you about it where you feel like he's being controlling or that he doesn't trust you or h what what's the what's

the feeling? it it's like he says that hi like I trust you in it but I just feel like I should be there because I guess he says he does trust me but I feel like he doesn't guess he's always like like doubling down on my decisions he's like is this are you sure that this is what you need to do >> are you asking him for advice

>> into advice and particularly how I choose to like invest into my business I should >> what do you mean by invest in the business you keep mentioning that >> um by like getting um like ads or like

advertisements like I need that to grow my business and he just sees it as a waste of money.

>> Okay. And so you're not going into debt for this. It's not a values issue. It's just I have one way of doing it. He has another way of doing it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Are your businesses connected or related in any way?

>> No. So, um we just recently, uh split my

all of my income and all my expensive like expenses for my business like completely like out of our like separate

like we need a separate account for all of my stuff, but he's still running his business from our personal >> Okay. Y'all need two separate business accounts.

You don't need a you don't need to co-mingle a business running a business and your personal checking out of the business. >> Yeah. Oh, like the fact that I am like I guess you could say like more legit.

Like I have all my papered files like everything filed and everything in order. Well, he's like also kind of starting out. >> Okay. >> So, it's not like official official.

Yeah. But he's still doing it, you know? He's still >> Yeah. I still Yeah. I would go get just a diff another checking account, right, to be running the business out of just so that it doesn't all get tangled up.

>> Yeah. that. And then as far as him giving you his opinion, I think that's just a that's a communication,

you know, issue in my opinion of, hey, I

don't like the way that you're stepping in. I would I would love to know your thoughts because I think you're smart and you know I mean if you think that please do you know and I would love to to hear what you have to say but I'm but at the end of the day I'm probably going to make these different decisions because I'm going to choose to do it this way or that way and it's not an immoral thing like what George was saying. It's just a this is what I'm going to choose to do and he yeah should be supportive of that unless it's like a horrible decision but so far >> unless it's hurting the household yeah >> and damaging the income severely but I think it's fair to say hey I'm open to advice I'm just not looking for oversight I need space to lead this business and if I make a couple mistakes here or there that are non fatal I'm okay with that and we just have different ways of approaching this so unless I specifically ask for strategy I'm not looking for that unsolicited advice, but I would love your support and I offer the same to you.

>> Um, we kind of just have this same conversation like every like few weeks out. Um, like we had this conversation.

We're like, okay, like I'll kind of like back off and then we like to be really

transparent about how we choose to make decisions and what kind of big like money decisions we make. And then it just kind of come comes back up where he says, "Well, like what is like your return on that?" And I'm like, "Well, the return is not guaranteed because it's like it's like advertisement, you know, and >> what's the nature of his business?" >> H >> what's the nature of the business he's running?

>> So, he's in like selling cars and like parts and all that stuff.

>> Okay. And he's just getting started. What is your household income?

>> Uh, that's the thing. We don't have It's different. every single week. It mostly like depends on what he sells, what I can sell, and uh >> what are you selling?

>> I do like uh weddings. I do like floral and decor. So, I'm not guaranteed to book out until like certain amount.

>> It's a long-term play for you cuz you're talking about weddings that are booked a year or two from now that you're trying to get on the books.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Well, um do you guys have consistent income outside of that? Are you both working other jobs or is this it?

>> No, I just quit my job um a few weeks

ago probably because uh I wasn't getting enough hours and they were not willing to give me more hours and he quit his job to pursue this. Uh >> so what are you guys making in a given week or month?

>> In a given month we could we could be lucky if anywhere from two to seven grand. >> That's quite the range. I'm just wondering what's at the root of this. Is there fear in his mind of, hey, are we going to be okay and is this business going to succeed?

Are we going to be able to hit our financial goals this month if you don't run this business how I think you should run it? So, I would get to the root of what his true concern is.

It was, "You're doing it wrong." It's more of like he thinks I should not do

any advertisement and no like marketing at all that I should just be like just do your like do what you do and like

orders will come in, you know? And >> yeah, it's just different philosophy on how to run a business. But what I would worry about him is that you guys may make two grand in a month and he quit his job for something that's not even official that he hasn't quote unquote filed papers for yet.

Yeah, >> that makes me a little nervous. Does it you?

>> Sounds like he should focus on his own business right now.

>> I understand where it's like when it comes to sales and cars where it's like kind of you're not really guaranteed to sell, but the income is like decent. We have a lot saved up. We have the flexibility. >> Okay, good, good, good, good.

As long as you guys are in a good spot. Yeah, at this point that's just a different way to run a business. And I would I would just tell them, yeah, I don't I don't need the thought. It's just it's creating too much conflict.

>> Yeah. And just reset the conversation and say, "Hey, we need to reset on the values that we both have for this household, for our money, and for our business." As long as we are aligned on the values and the principles, the process and and which way we run the business, it doesn't matter.

>> And if things go south, you're going to go, "Hey, listen. I need some help here.

The ads aren't working. what do you think we should do? And that's wise to have that counsel, you know, you need to support each other and you can do the same for his business, too. But it's not out of a lack of trust and micromanaging.

It is a truly I want to see you win. And when you win, we all win. And right now, it almost feels competitive. I don't know if he's jealous of your business cuz it's more successful in his right now or what's going on, but I think you need to get to the root of it.

>> Mhm.

>> I wish you the best, Emma. These are these are not fun conversations to have, but they're worth having. And maybe this isn't a season where he needs to be running this business. Maybe you guys do need some more consistent income and he goes and gets a job selling cars and you run this for now and maybe another season he gets to run a business and you go do something else. I don't know what that looks like for you guys, but being on the same page is a great first step.

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Our scripture of the day, 2 Chronicles 15:7.

But as for you, be strong and do not give up, for your work shall be rewarded. Dwayne Johnson said, "Be humble, hungry, and always be the hardest worker in the room." >> I love wise words from The Rock.

>> I love The Rock. He's one of my favorites. >> He's likable. >> He is. I know. Well done. Good quote.

>> D is in Wilmington, Delaware. Up next, D, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. >> I um just got a life insurance

inheritance um because my husband passed away in November. Oh, I'm so sorry.

>> I'm sorry. >> How old was he?

>> Um, 44.

>> Oh my gosh. Oh, >> I'm Do you look Do you guys have kids?

>> We do. A 17-year-old and a 14-year-old.

>> Oh wow. D, I'm so sorry. Oh my gosh.

>> Um, >> thank you. >> He had life insurance though.

>> Um, through his work. He didn't have it privately, but anyhow, it there's um

$150,000 that was in his life insurance that I did get to collect.

>> Um he had some 401k that went into my

401k and that left me with a pretty good amount. So, I have like 900,000 overall.

>> Oh, good. Okay. How old are you?

>> Uh 54. >> Okay.

And um so anyway, I can't afford the

mortgage by itself, but because I have kids, I have survivors benefit that's going to come to me until my son turns 18 and graduates. So for like the next year and a half, I should be okay with making payments on the house.

>> Okay. >> But then I lose that and then it's just my daughter. >> And so I think I would have to pull from something. So, I don't know if I should use the $150,000 and put some of it in to the mortgage,

like to help pay off the house, or should I invest it? I don't know what to do with it. >> Yeah. How much is how much is left on the house?

>> 237.

>> 230. Okay. Um, and

financially, do you guys do you have consumer debt?

>> No. >> No debt? >> I don't have anything but house. Yeah. >> Okay. And what kind of savings do you have? That's not investments or retirement.

>> I have about 30,000 just in.

>> Okay, perfect. Just like an emergency fund. >> Yeah. Um, most of our money went to his medical stuff, so I couldn't put more away. >> Mhm. Okay. And

and your income, what are you making a

year? >> 100. >> Okay.

Um, yeah. I'm just thinking I probably would ride out I think I would just keep that

150 in probably a high yield savings

account right now and with the survivors benefit ride that out for a year and then I would probably plan on pulling some of that 150 until you're able to

pay off the house because you'll have probably after if you applied the whole 150 you'd have 80 grand left on the

house and that feels feels doable to me.

>> Yeah. What's your margin like right now with just your income and the survivor's benefit?

>> What's my what I'm >> How much margin do you have at the end of each month? How much money left over after paying all your bills?

>> I don't really know because it just started. Um I should be getting and I I

took a leave of absence for two months, so I don't really know, but I'm I I

think I think I will have at least $1,000.

>> Okay. Okay. And how much is the mortgage a month? >> 22. >> Okay. Okay. >> But you'll probably have a,000 e after

mortgage and everything is paid off. But when that survivor benefit is over, you'll have 2,200 that you got to pay per month. Correct.

>> Correct. Okay. And when my daughter leaves, for sure. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Will not have enough. Yeah. >> Okay. The other thing you can look into with a financial advisor is the rule of 55 which would allow you to access those the retirement account which could help you to knock out the house.

Oh, >> so that's one other option to look into.

And you can reach out to a smartvetor pro uh at ramiesolutions.com and just kind of walk through all the variables here to be strategic because you have to be uh it wasn't a $ 1.5 million life insurance policy and so if you're trying to make this money last for a long time or at least put it to good use. Um the truth is you're going to have to work for the foreseeable future. I mean you have that 900,000 if you work for another seven years and just let that money sit, it could double.

>> Yeah. So, you will be out of the woods soon enough, but just the next few years, it might feel a little bit tight, but I'm not concerned about you losing the house or not being able to make the mortgage payment. As long as you can keep up that six figure income, is that pretty stable? >> Yes. >> Okay, great. Then I would I like

Rachel's plan of just letting it sit in a high yield savings for now until you know that you know the next step because once you put it in the house, it's kind of locked up in there. And I love the idea of you getting rid of that mortgage because that makes retirement and covering your bills a whole lot easier.

So that is still the goal. It's just what's the best way to get there and when.

>> Okay. Okay. That's good. I have also he had a Roth IRA that's about $20,000

and I haven't done anything with it because I didn't know if I could I have

some like we haven't done anything in the house cuz he was sick for so long.

So there's like trees that need to be taken down. There's, >> you know, masonry that needs to be I need a new dishwasher. Like, I didn't know if I could use that 20,000. Um, I

don't know if I should I don't know what to do with that Roth IRA, actually. >> Yeah. Because it now is an inherited IRA.

>> I I've done nothing with it, but it's an option to be in an inherited IRA.

>> Yeah. And you do you have savings outside of that that you could use to cash flow some of these things around the house? >> I have $30,000 in savings. Um,

>> that's your emergency fund. I that's my emergency fund. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. I wouldn't touch the emergency fund for these, but I would try to cash flow it even if it's out of your future income. I love the idea of that money continuing to grow taxfree if you don't absolutely need it.

>> Okay. So then should I just make it into my do I make it inherited or do I put it in my own because I have a Roth IRA myself and I believe I could roll that into there. >> Yeah. Again, that's a great question for the Smart Invester Pro because there are going to be differences with, you know, the required uh draw downs from an inherited IRA versus rolling it over.

So, if you are able to roll it over, there might be some upside to that of you not needing to draw it down immediately. But again, it's $20,000.

It's not the bulk of your net worth.

But, I would just be more hesitant because that's all tax-free money. And so, we want to just protect that as long as we can to let it grow taxree.

>> Okay. Well, they said, "Okay, so you that's my goal is to keep it growing taxfree." Okay. Because they did say if I took it out, I wouldn't have the penalty, but that use it as income. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Exactly. So, I'm so sorry you're going through this. You're asking the right questions, D.

It's It's not something anyone ever pictures having to go through. >> Yeah. And usually we say, too, with any bulk of money after a tragedy, just pause for a year. Don't make any big moves.

more clarity will come because you're still right in the middle of of new grief. I mean, it's just been it's been just a few months for you. So

>> well, if you need a good uh high yield savings account, D, you can jump on to fairwinds.org/ramsey.

They've been great partners with us and they have an awesome smart bundle just for our fans and that's a great place to park that 150 until you know what to do next. >> Yeah, >> good reminder for life insurance. >> That's what I was going to say, George. You know, you guys, I mean, he thankfully had something through his work, but we we really do recommend people get 10 to 12 times your annual income. Um, and a term policy. Don't do

whole life. Do a term policy. If you're a stay-at-home parent, half a million dollars or even 700,000 on you. um

because people depend upon the work that you're doing or the income that you're bringing in. And you know, in this case, again, I don't want to fault them by any means. Um but, you know, that'd be a million-doll term policy. You know, if you know, if they were or I guess depending on what he was making, but if he was making a hundred grand, >> um you know, so it just it it changes the dynamic so much of a grieving situation when you don't have to worry about money on top of it.

And if you're healthy, you guys, and if you're I mean any age, but especially if you're younger, it is so inexpensive.

inexpensive. And so Xander's great because they shop so many different companies to get you the best rate. And >> a lot of them you don't even need a medical exam. You can do it all online, which is awesome.

>> And as your family grows, you guys, and your income grows, Winston and I just had to do this probably about two years ago.

>> That's right. So, y'all look at I mean, yeah, life insurance is one of the best ways to say because you have it through your employer, you go, "Well, I'm good. I have it through my employer, but that might be one to two times your income.

You you need 10 to 12 if you want to actually be able to live off of this and invest it and live off the growth. So, get it done today. Let this be a a sober

reminder. xander.com or you can call 800 3564282.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

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## 57. Financial Freedom Gives You Safety, Not Risk | February 23, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, I'm John Deloney, joined by George Camel, taking your calls on your money, your relationships, your work,

everything. Anything you got going on in your life, we're here. 88255225.

Let's go right down the street to Nashville, Tennessee, and talk to Ethan.

What's up, Ethan?

>> Uh, hi. Can you hear me? >> I got you, man. What's up?

>> Uh, well, thanks for having me on today.

And uh I was calling cuz uh my wife and I were in baby step number two and uh we've made some pretty good progress and but we've made it to our final we call it the big dog. It's our final big payment and it's a student loan of 118,000 >> and >> that's one loan at a six.

>> Yes. It's my wife's the occupational therapist and that was her uh graduate

like degree. >> That is a big big dog.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's why we named it that.

But uh so today my question is uh it's

at a 6.1% interest rate and it makes me sick to look at the balance and like it goes up like I mean like this the la from the last time I checked it was sometime this week to I think last night it was like $70. Do I save any more money by like paying that weekly or or monthly or I just didn't know if I saved more if I if I paid every single week versus like every month just one big

>> I mean the faster you bring the principal down the less interest you're going to pay. But the simplest way to do it is just apply extra to each monthly payment. >> Monthly. Okay. >> How much are you guys making?

>> Uh we're fixing to do our taxes and we made around 140 in 2025.

>> Okay. But what is she making?

>> Uh well, she's PRN OT at the hospital

and uh we which we just had our first baby back in July and she's she was born a little early so she's needed a little extra love we call it.

>> And so she kind of put her hours back, but she made um she made like 29,000

this last year and but the year before while you know before we were having the baby she had made like 65.

>> Okay. How do how do we get her making closer to six figures so we can knock this out quick?

>> Well, uh our daughter's fixing to uh

like we're waiting for the next doctor's appointment to come up. We're hoping that like she can come off like breathing treatments and whatnot so we can hopefully free up mama to be able to work soon, >> work more hours. How much are you making? >> Because I I made I made 120 this last

year. >> Awesome. Okay. What do you do for work?

>> I guess we made almost uh I'm a UPS driver. >> Okay. Is there room for overtime for you? >> Oh, yeah. I get plenty of it.

>> Okay. I think one or both of you get hustling. As soon as this baby is is healthy, let's get this income up because that's your your greatest shot at getting rid of this debt faster than the interest is growing because it's just one loan. So, there's really no debt snowball here. It's basically a you're trying to knock out a mortgage.

>> Correct. >> Can I say something cruel to you, Ethan?

>> Please. I'm going to put a I'm going to put a a a worm in your ear and you're

going to have to promise me that once you've paid this off, you're going to take that worm out. Are you ready?

>> Yes, sir. So, one time I was uh me and

some buddies were going to a concert and one of my buddies was an attorney and we were all meeting at his house and I got there early, which has never happened in human history, but I got there early and we just popped on the couch and we ate

some and we watched an episode of Seinfeld and we got up after that 30 minute episode and he goes, "Well, that

cost me $300 or something like that cuz his billable hour rate was 600 bucks an hour, whatever it was back then.

>> And I remember looking at him thinking that's a terrible way to live, right?

And here I am now. I'm on 100% commission. I had that same thought sometimes like, well, I just watched a whole football game and I could have been, right? I want you every time

you're not on the clock and you're not and you're not fully participating in your house, right? But >> I want you to think, man, that hour just c I just donated this much more money in interest to that bank.

Mhm. >> And use that as fuel to say, I'm going to pick up two more extra hours in overtime today. I'm going to do an extra hour tomorrow. I'll come in for a half day on Saturday because sitting on the

couch, I refuse to sit on the couch and pay them 50 bucks in interest for the privilege of watching whatever dumb show I just watched.

>> You can't do this forever. It will melt you and your family. But for a season to get this stupid student loan out of your life, man, let that thing just wormhole its way into your brain.

>> Yes, sir. >> I'm not going to pay these banks. I'm not going to exchange, you know, kicking my feet up to pay these banks some more money. >> Mhm. >> I want them out of my life. >> Do you guys have any other debt?

>> Uh, no. We're currently uh rent, which our rent's only like 650 a month. Oh, we're able to make like Yeah, we're we make some like and all our vehicles are paid for and the only thing we have is that big dog. >> Okay. So, cuz here's what I'm thinking. You guys, if you make let's say 150 this year, if you really get after it, which is very doable, >> uh you probably clear what 9,500 bucks a month in take-home pay.

>> Yes, sir. Thereabouts. Yeah.

>> So, think about that. If you can live off a small portion of that, three or four grand, we can throw five, six grand at this debt. You're done in less than two years. You're talking 18 to 24 months max.

Yeah, then that that's we we actually even were trying we were just talking the other night and I guess we've kind of put it put it aside for just a second. We was going to come back and talk about we was actually trying to see what we could do in like the next 13 months. Like >> I love set a goal that scares you a little bit and excites you a whole lot.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It excites me. It scares her. So I'm the one that's like I'm one there's times where I might be like kind of dragging her along in all this.

>> Well, hold on. She's She's been pregnant for a year and had a child with like

Don't drag her too. Like, >> you know what I mean? Give her some grace. It's been a tough year.

>> Yeah. And I can be a little too intense sometimes, which she she tells me it's like I'm the hair and she's the tortoise in life. So, >> well, you got some homework now just figuring out how much can we really throw at the debt right now and how much can we throw at it when she's back to work full-time.

>> Sure. >> And then you can kind of get a timeline going and go, "All right, 14 months, game on. We're getting this thing done.

Yes, sir. >> And then stick to it. Hold each other accountable. Do the every dollar budget and every month you pay your four walls, your insurance. Anything other than that, it's going towards the debt.

>> Yes, sir. We love it. >> That's it. I think you guys will get there. I have a lot of faith in you and we're wishing you the best with the health of that little sweet baby.

George, I don't hear that very often.

how and you work through it with a ton of people through budgeting and helping them like you do those webinars and stuff like actually sitting with people and helping them work their budget.

It seems to me that the the for me at least the greatest path forward would be to say I'm going to put a ridiculous

um month amount, right? 13 months, 15 months and I'm going to reverse engineer that and say okay, what must be true?

What dollar amount would I have to come up with? And that to me feels like taking a what feels like a big target on the side of a wall and making it like a laser target. Like, okay, I've got to get this many dollars this month. I can figure out how to do that.

>> Oh, yeah. And when you when you look at like a big mountain like he's got 118 grand, it's hard to just look at it and go, "Yeah, we can knock that out." >> You said six grand and it's like, "Oh, cool. 112," right?

insurmountable. >> Yeah. And so the breaking it down into small chunks that you can see on paper is if we live off of 3,000, we will have

6,000 left over. >> Yeah, >> that's the fact. So I love focusing on the facts because debt is emotional.

It's scary. You're going, "We'll never pay this off." And they go, "Wait, you guys make amazing money. What if you just took control of that, did a budget, got in a plan, held each other accountable, and made it fun." I know this is cheesy, but we had our Excel spreadsheets and we had all of our stuff. This we we we did this before the Every Dollar app, but we went old school and made a construction paper chain and I hung it in the bedroom.

>> Arts and crafts, baby. >> I want to see this thing. I'm going to tear off a chain every week. And just watching that thing get >> below six figures, below 75 grand, 50 grand, 25.

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All right, let's go out to Columbia, South Carolina, and talk to Dustin.

What's up, Dustin?

>> Hi. Uh, thank you for taking my call today. >> Is your car okay, Dustin?

>> Yeah. Are you good?

>> I was rolling up the window.

>> Oh, there you go. Sweet. Sweet. My my question is, do you risk setting yourself back on the baby steps and your goals to help family in need? Here's the situation.

My dad lost his business last year, and ever since then, it's been a process of losing just about everything. He is going to lose their car, the family car, and he came to me and asked if he could borrow one of my wife and I's cars. We have two. Um, we we have a truck that I

use for work and an SUV, a midsize SUV

that my wife uses.

Here's the thing that would complicate it. U, we have a baby. Uh, we have another baby coming in September, and that would, you know, create its own problems with a growing family. Plus, my

dad would likely need the car for probably the rest of the year, I'd say.

Probably till probably till at least around the time the baby comes. and my wife and I would look at saving for a

new car. >> Yeah, >> we just finished baby step three.

>> Let me take this off the table for you. >> Yeah, y'all are not in a position to do this.

>> Like I like at my house, I have an old farm truck.

>> I could give that truck I could loan somebody because I've got my car that I get to work with. My wife has the car that she gets to work with and and and we both shuttle kids around and I have an old farm truck that I I loan out regularly. You don't have that.

No. >> And so you're not in a position to This isn't about setting yourself back. This is about your dad put a pretty heavy burden on you. And I I don't know him.

This could have been a manipulative move you've dealt with your whole life or it could be a guy who's just at desperation level right now. But the reality is you don't have it to give, >> right? >> You don't have it to give. And that that's heartbreaking.

Now, you can help him work through this in other ways because he's he's probably in a cloudy spot right now, but it doesn't mean that we're going to be in the car giveaway business. So, where what happened to his vehicle? Did it get repoed? Did he have to sell it?

doesn't have the money to dig out of the hole he's in two payments behind. And uh

it's he's upside down on it about >> And when you say he lost the business, what does that mean? the business. Uh he

uh had a lot of debt on the business equipment. It was a lawn and landscaping business. He had a large client uh that

uh dropped him and then he had another

customer refused to pay him about to

$15,000 of services last year. So, >> okay. But he has the equipment. He can sell off all the equipment >> and hopefully walk away with something. >> Gone. >> It's gone. What do you mean? >> Everything's gone.

Some of it was repossessed. Some of it he sold uh and paid off some of the loans, but he doesn't have any equipment left. >> Okay. And what's he going to do for work for income right now?

>> Right now he's working at a hardware store making about $20 an hour, but he has another job lined up now that'll pay him about twice that in April.

>> So he he's not just sitting on the couch feeling sorry for himself. He's out there hustling.

>> Yes. >> Good deal. That's noble. That's good.

Good deal. And what's his transportation right now? Is it still the car that's about to be repoed? And can we sell it before it gets repoed or catch up on payments and sell it?

>> I think it's about past that point.

>> Cuz if you Now what you could do if you wanted to is just catch him up on his payments so that he can go sell this thing, which is better than repo, which they're going to come after him for the deficit. They're going to go sell it at auction >> for way less than it's worth and then still come after him. And so you'd be in a better spot if you can help him catch up on payments to then sell it outright and make more for it.

>> Is this something that you would use your emergency fund for? Because that's the >> If I had a baby on the way, no. Cuz right now you got to protect your own family. They come first.

>> Yeah. >> And so if I'm in your shoes, we're kind of in storm mode right now. And dad's in his own storm mode and we all got to figure it out. I would honor my dad by

having a if this is possible geographically having a face-to-face conversation just saying, "Dad, like I 100% get that you're in a tr in trouble." And I really honor the way like you're setting a good example for me as a as a young dad for when

like life throws you a whole bunch of curve balls in a row. You you put on you put on your belt and you went to a hardware store, right? Like like that's honorable. And >> I got a new baby on the way. I've got a youngster. I'm not in a position both financially or with vehicles to to help

you out, man. And it breaks my heart, but I I'm just not in a position to do that. That face to face man-to-man conversation. Um assuming a he's not

going to throw a temper tantrum and he he'll actually hear you, right?

>> Um I have a rule that I only have conversations if somebody can hear me, right? And if they're angry or frustrated or think I owe them or whatever would would be in the case here, I you can decide whether you'd have that. But that would be a neat way to honor him to say, "Hey, I want you to know I see and I'm proud of you and I simply don't have it to help with right now." >> Do you know the deficit on his payments?

The exact number?

>> $2,700. >> Goodness gracious. So, this is more than two payments unless this is a giant payment. >> It is two payments. It is a over $1,300

payment. >> Goodness gracious. >> And so I just I don't have it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And hey, let me let me tell you this. Um there's a psychologist out of New York. Her name is Becky Kennedy and um she's a friend of mine and she gave me this new definition of guilt I

want to pass to you.

>> She said often what we said call guilt

is not that at all. Guilt is a feeling

that's inside of our chest that's right and good. When we violate our own values, >> right? You haven't violated your own values here. >> That guilt that you think you're feeling, you're trying to take his sadness and his franticness and his fear and you're trying to manage that for him. And you can't do that,

>> right? And so it's you saying, "I'm not violating any of my core values. I'm doing what's right for me and for my wife and for my young child and the child that's about to be here. And I'll

sit with you while you have these these feelings, these big feelings of fear and terror and embarrassment and shame, all that stuff that he's feeling, but I can't hold that for you. I'll sit there with you, but I can't carry it for you.

And I know all of this you're talking to two guys who love their own dads. I know this is this this is heavy for you.

>> Yeah. >> But you know what else it is? It's a line in the sand where you go, I want to be in the position to where if this ever happened again, I could help, >> right? >> And I wouldn't flinch.

It would be such a small part of our world that I get to help the family that I love. Uh and it wouldn't set us back. And so it's a I mean, this is one of those things where you start to run away from the decisions that your parents have made. Not the character.

He sounds like he's a a great guy, but as far as the decisions and the financial place he put himself in, highly leveraged and running a business that he still is going to owe a bunch of debt on, you know, I'm never going to put myself in that position. I'm going to pay cash for things. I'm not going to owe other people money. And this is the other side when we talk about financial freedom.

talking beyond my own house, right? Like I want my house to have peace, but part of my house having peace is knowing I can help folks out when I think it's the

right thing to do, right? And so this is yet another encouragement for you and your wife to stay the course. You all paid off everything you own. You've got yourself an emergency fund saved up. You got a new baby on the way. We're going to continue to walk these baby steps all the way out. And I want to be in a position one day that come what may, I can help out, right?

Mhm. >> Hey, let me just like you're a good son, man.

>> Really? >> He's lucky to have you. Regardless if you can fund his misbehavior, he's so lucky to have a guy who cares this much about his old man willing to walk through this with him. >> You're a good son. And by drawing this line here and having the courage to have a face to face with him, you're also showing courage and um like honor for

your family too, your your wife and and your two young kids.

>> Thank you for that.

>> Like it's it's an honor to talk to you.

Okay. >> Thanks. And I love your book uh Building a Non- Anxious Life. >> Oh, thank you. Yeah, I I think the the hard part about building anxious life is these moments. It's not. It It's It's simple, but it's real real hard in in in real life, right?

>> All right, brother. Keep going. Doing the next right thing, man.

>> George, this one's hard. This is one of those like uh and again, we should probably talk about this more.

>> This is the give like no one else, right? Yeah. >> This is the I've taken care of my family and my bills. I I drive this vehicle or

we live in this size house or we don't go out to eat this often because it's more valuable to us to have a pot of money that when one of people we love gets gets in a pickle. >> Yeah. >> We can sit down and >> the weak can't help the weak. And so you get to a place of strength, it gives you a lot of opportunity to make impact.

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Let's go talk to Monica in Indian in

Indianapolis. What's up, Monica?

>> Hi. How are you guys?

>> I'm good. What's up with you?

>> I'm good. Thank you so much for taking my call. I love you. I love you. And my my sister loves you, George.

>> Oh, that's sweet. Why doesn't your sister love me? All right. I get it. I get it. I get it. Teach us been happening since high school. All right. So, what's up?

>> Um, so yeah, I've been having conflict with my husband. Um, we I work

full-time, he works full-time, and then he also has a second job, a second part-time, a second job that's part-time, excuse me. And um we've been

thus far using um his income from his

part-time job as extra principal payments towards the mortgage, but he now starting in March wants to use that

income towards investing in crypto. And

I'm not on >> Well, that's an oxymoron. Awesome.

>> I'm not on board. And we just have a lot

of conflict on it. Um, so I wanted to uh

get your guys's thoughts. I'm a bit afraid of being controlling cuz I grew

up in a home where my mother was very controlling and wore the pants in the house and I I don't want to be like that.

>> You're not being controlling. If my wife said, "Hey, I know we got debt to pay down. I'm going to go gamble in Vegas instead. Are you okay with that?" I think it's wise as a spouse to say, "That's not a good idea." Those are

opposing goals. What about the last two months with crypto has made your husband be like, "You know what? I'm gonna I think I need to get in on this." >> Um, I know he has a friend who's in on it and he claims and this friend claims that uh

he's very successful in it, >> recently successful because it went down 50%. >> 50%.

It's lost 50% of its value in the last two months, >> which which makes me think, well, maybe he's trying to like buy the dip. Everyone's going, you got, now's the time, man. It's going to climb back up to 100,000. And maybe it does. I'm not here to, you know, play back the tape a year from now and be wrong. That's fine.

I just think there is a guaranteed outcome of paying down your mortgage.

There's a guaranteed interest rate, which is your mortgage interest rate that you're making by paying down this mortgage. So really what this is, there's a difference in risk tolerance and you guys have different definitions of winning. So you're just not on the same page. You value different things right now in your marriage.

>> Okay? >> So it's really a conversation about unity. And he thinks, well, this is our path to financial freedom. And you're going, "Nope, my financial freedom looks like less risk, not more." >> And and h keeping this conversation, the fight about crypto, you're never going to get below the surface of the water. You're all going to make a lot of splashes and you're gonna take in a lot

of water up your nose, but you're never going to get to the actual issue which is under the water, which is, hey, we made an agreement that we wanted to never owe anybody any money again

>> and you're violating that agreement.

>> Okay. >> And that's that's the real issue.

>> This is a trust issue, right?

>> Yes, definitely. And often um I I wonder

if your mom ended up wearing the pants because that's who she was or if she ended up because over time she felt like she had to.

>> Yeah. Um I I still don't want to be like that because I unfortunately like resent her way more than my dad dad when it comes to what they did with me financially as a child. >> I got that. And that's why it's imperative for you to not fight this on the surface. Don't engage in a proxy war. This is not about crypto. This is about him feeling like you can't tell me what to do. This is about him feeling bored. This is him feeling prideful, FOMO, right? Fear of missing, right?

Fear of missing out. And this is about you saying, "Hey, we made a deal

and you're violating our core like have the true conversations underneath the thing." >> Okay.

>> But just for whatever it's worth, George and I are 100% on your side on this one.

A thank you. >> I've never won against a crypto bro yet.

So just know I don't think this is going to be easy to win him over because he is so convinced that you guys are missing out on the opportunity of a lifetime.

>> Right. And George gave you the best.

Like I just view this as >> sitting at a blackjack table in Vegas and the house has won four times in a row and the guy next to you is like, "Dude, they can't win five. This is it.

Let's go all in." like put all your chips on and

they they might, right? Like it's may maybe you win this time, but maybe you don't.

>> Mhm. >> I just talked to uh a caller. The wife found out about some financial infidelity. He took out a heliloc, $250,000, put it into crypto, lost it

all. >> Wow. >> He claims he hit the sell short button instead of sell, which we all know is a lie. And so this is what it leads to.

I'm not saying this will be your husband, but there's a level of like

fear, greed, pride that lead to a the

risk meter being broken, which leads to really bad financial problems.

>> And so paying off your house, nobody calls in saying, "Oh my gosh, worst decision of our life. We are deeply in debt." >> They're not. You're debtree. And so it's an opposing goal that you guys have. And I would get to the bottom of say, "Hey, what are you really hoping crypto will do for us? Is it quick wealth? Is it freedom? Is it the security? Is it FOMO?

And then share your why. Hey, paying off the house for me makes me feel safe, makes me feel stable. And the security matters more to me than the potential of

making money. >> And if you want to be a gangster, you can say, "Hey, we pay this house off and we get this much cash in the bank. Knock

it out.

>> Buy some crypto." >> I like that compromise. >> Here's 25 grand to go buy as much crypto as you think you can get. Once we're in baby step seven and we're already investing 15% of our income into retirement, >> now we can go play. >> Now you can use your fund money to go do this. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> How much is left on the mortgage?

>> Um 244,000.

>> Okay. And how much are you guys paying extra right now? Like what's your total payment? Our mortgage payment, our

mortgage payment is um 2,400

and we've been paying double.

>> Nice. 4,800.

>> Yes. Correct. >> That's awesome. And so based on that timeline, when will you guys pay this off?

>> Um if we keep paying double, it would be paid off um within the next within the

next six years.

>> Okay. My guess is he goes, "Man, 6 years

is a long time to be paying double. It would be easier if I could 10x my money

and put it into crypto and then we could pay off the mortgage." Is that his thinking?

>> I think so. Yes. >> He wants to shortcut this and speed up the process.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. I always go back to this proverb because it's so grounding for me. It's Proverbs 13:11. Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it.

And you know what? You know what get rich quick is? It's wealth gained hastily.

And when you do it little by little, you tend to lower your risk, increase your peace, and you stick with it. You're not going to make any rash decisions when you worked really hard to get this money or pay down the debt. You're not going back in because you sacrificed for it. I can't imagine how many people who have leveraged their souls and watched it all get cut in half the last couple months.

>> Like I don't have a penny in crypto, but even it makes my stomach hurt just thinking >> it's 247. At least the stock market closes. You can be up at 3:00 a.m.

watching it go up and down. >> Yeah. >> And so for me, it's just not worth I got other things to be anxious about. Don't need one more to add to the list. I'm good. I got a dog on two legs right now.

So, let's worry about the real things.

>> He's got a dog on wheels.

>> That's true. He does have a wheelchair now. Thanks, John, for bringing it up. Appreciate that. >> Not Not a lot of people can say, "Hey, you know what? I got a dog on wheels." >> At least it's not a Tesla.

>> You have one of those, too? >> I do. Oh, for two.

>> Even better. What else you got, George?

>> Uh, I don't I don't have any crypto, so that's the good news. But here's the thing. People think we are anti-crypto.

All we are is anti-getriqu, anti- greed,

anti- pride, anti- destroying your marriage, >> anti-doing things out of order.

>> Yeah, there's a time and a place to have >> as much crypto as you want after you have taken the existential risk of your

home getting taken away, of your cars getting taken away, of your ability to take care of your family getting taken away. >> Replace this with sports betting, whatever you want. It's just there's a risk here. It's speculation. It's unwise and it's not investing. And there's way better ways to access peace.

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and start filing. Let's go to Manchester, New Hampshire, and talk to Terry. What's up, Terry?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Of course, thanks for calling. What's up? >> So, um I'm just looking for a little bit of advice. Um I'm 60 years old. I just

ended a career in which I'm receiving a pension and I've started a second career

um which I'm hoping to work for about the next 10 years and I'm just wanting to make sure I'm on the right track as far as what I should be investing over the next 10 years.

>> Um >> very cool. What's your new side hustle?

I mean it's not even a side hustle. What's your new career?

>> Yeah, I'm consulting. Excellent.

>> I'm I started an LLC.

>> Um I'm debtree except for my house. I only owe about 60 on my house. Um, but

all I have right now is that pension.

It's about 47,000 a year. Um, and I know

that's not going to be enough. And I'll tell you, I don't have anything else because of a couple of things. First, I just found you guys a few years ago. Um, but I also have a special needs adult son. So throughout he's in his 30s. So throughout the years when you know things come up and every time I think I have a little bit of money to set aside, something comes up, right? So then I have to spend or I do spend. Um, so here

I am and I'm getting a little worried cuz cuz you know he continues to have needs, but I just want to make sure I'm on the right track. So I have a 47,000

pension. My gross income is about 130 to

150 a year.

I have expenses from my business of about 30k, I'd say. Um, and I'm I'm just

trying to figure out how much do I put aside? How much do I try to invest

between now and then to feel like comfortable? I feel like it should be like my goal should be about 300,000 >> in an investment account.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. At 70. So that's your goal.

>> And you still have the mortgage and the goal for I would say let's go into retirement completely debtree house and everything. >> Mhm. >> And so I would be investing 15% of your awesome income while paying down extra on the house. And in no time, you're going to pay off that house, >> okay, >> with this income, right? In the next few years, it's gone.

>> Which means the following seven years, we can now max out retirement options.

Like for you, a self-employed person, a solo 401k.

>> So, I tried to ask my tax person and my investment guy about that, and they both were just like, you don't need that.

>> Complicated. >> What did they say you need? Um, they have me right now in a um I rolled I rolled some 403b money into a SE IRA.

>> Okay, that works too.

>> Um, >> I like the solo 401k because the cont the contribution limits are massive, especially for someone your age because you have catchup contributions.

>> Mhm. >> So, you're talking I think it's 80 grand this year for someone in your shoes.

>> Okay. >> Which is insane. You can really catch up on retirement with that kind of with those kind of numbers. And so I would look into that as an option. Um, >> okay. >> On top of your IRA.

>> Terry, I'm going to ask George a question on your behalf. Okay. He's smarter than I am at this stuff.

>> So Terry, how old are you again?

>> 60. >> 60. All right, George.

My gut tells me that if I was in her situation and I suddenly stumbled on, not stumbled on, I created $130 to

$150,000 in extra value. Right? So, in

New Hampshire, I'm going to guess um

you'll you'll take home 80 of that after

taxes and then you're going to have 30 of that off the top. So, you're going to have $50,000.

My I I would feel a an intense internal pressure to not put a penny in retirement until I could just throw everything and get that house taken off like that. Like clear my house at 60 grand, work maniacally to get that risk taken off. So, I've got that taken care of. And then I would spend the next however many years just sucking every penny away and trying to live off that 47. Could I find a world where I just

condensed my expenses, my travel, all that kind of stuff, lived off that pension, and I just started saving everything. Is that bad?

>> I wouldn't say it's bad. Uh I think either way, if you did it on paper, you'll kind of get to that finish line either way. But if you're tracking through the baby steps, it's 15% until the house is paid off and then we're maxing out retirement. And so I like the idea of you flexing this s this investment muscle because you really haven't. It's been the pension the whole time. And so you'll get used to not seeing that money in your bank account.

Instead, it's going towards your future.

And I can crunch the numbers for you here. Let's say you pay off the house in three years. Could you pay it off by 63?

Put 20 grand a year towards it?

>> Yeah, I can. And then after that, the mortgage is freed up on top of the money you can throw. How much could you throw a month after that if you keep making what you're making?

>> Three grand a month. >> I mean, at least.

>> Okay. So, three grand a month from 63 to 70, you'll have $362,000 at a 10% rate of return.

>> And then I just let that sit really.

>> Yeah. If you let it sit, I mean, what we've seen in the stock market, it's the rule of 72, it'll double. If you get a 10% rate of return, that money would double every 7.2 2 years.

>> So if you didn't need it, you could live off of your pension for a few years.

It's just going to continue to grow. And if that's in a Roth 401k, it's going to be completely taxree because you used after tax dollars to fund it.

>> Okay? >> So think about that. It's like net income 360 grand.

>> Mhm. >> And then if you create a special needs trust, >> this isn't this isn't like pieces. No, I would I would tell you if you are way out of line. But you told me your goal is 300 grand in that investment account plus your pension, you will be okay.

>> Okay. >> If you do 4 grand a month, you'll have 483 grand. And so you can play around with the numbers using our investment calculator to kind of >> figure out what that future's going to look like. >> And I would create a special needs trust for my child that if something happens. >> Okay. I'll need to find out more about that because I feel like I never have enough money to do that.

>> Okay. Yeah, I would I would dig into that. But if you end up with 400K in

retirement funds or retirement accounts plus your pension, and I don't know how pensions work with uh trust and with special needs trust, I don't know whether it would be transferable or not. >> They're survivor benefits, something like that. >> But I would dig in and get every bit of that information. And by the way, some of that um uh panic is the wrong word,

but that growing, gnawing, it's tiny right now, but it's getting bigger. That sense of angst, right? like you're 60 and then you're you're gonna blink and you're gonna be 70 >> and your special needs child will be 40 >> that it it feels like guilt almost like I need to take care of him. What am I doing? I didn't make enough money. And you start like a lot of that type of angst is quenched when you have real information.

>> You hit the nail on the head with that because that's why I'm feeling a little bit frantic about that exact thing you just said. So, finding somebody and saying,"I want to learn about this." And here's the words I use now. Um, I want you to teach me like I'm a ninth grader.

And I ask folks that about any purchase

I'm making. If I'm going on a hunting trip, if I want to learn about this electric circuit thing I want to learn how to work on the lawn mower, I ask people, "Teach this to me like I'm in ninth grade." and I walk away learning how to actually do this thing.

>> Okay? >> And at least even if there's no way you're going to leave that conversation feeling great, right? Like, oh, he's going to be like, you're going to realize, oh, I got a decade's worth of work to do, but you'll have real information and an actual lit path on what direction to take.

>> Okay? >> I think you're going to feel a whole lot better when this is knocked out. I would reach out to a couple of state attorneys in your area and just get a feel and go with the one that you like, that you trust, and have them explain it to you and have them walk you through what what is this going to cost to set up. It might be a few thousand bucks, but you will sleep so much better at night knowing that you've taken care of your family and now we're on track for retirement.

or work around it. There's one path only and it's through it, right? And often that path is lit with real information.

And so getting real information on a special needs trust, using the uh Ramsay retirement calculator to say how many dollars will equal this many dollars, right? >> Getting facts on paper because your emotions will cloud your judgment and you'll just feel overwhelmed >> all the time. And facts on paper give you a path forward.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly these are the two options.

Take care of your dad gum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah. >> To just miss you.

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney joined by George Camel taking your calls. 88 8255225.

Let's go out to Htontown and talk to Gary. What up Gary?

>> Hey guys, how are you? >> We're good my brother. What's up with you?

>> Good. Oh, not too much really. Uh, enjoy the show. Um, my question is I've been

happily married uh for coming up on 26

years. Um, you know, I I hit the hit the

wife lottery. Um, we've been sort of

financially very fortunate uh during our

ma marriage. Um and you know at this

point we're we're in a very good place

uh financially but you know we have

never really

followed or kind of strictly adhered to

any sort of budget um during that entire

time. Um, you know, I have tried,

you know, throughout the years, you know, at various points to, you know,

get my wife on board with at least sort of looking and following some sort of budget, but, you know, probably mostly

my fault. Those, you know, those discussions just end up in in arguments.

And you know I just wonder at this stage at this point in our lives I'm you know considering you know I'm looking at retirement hopefully in the next few years or the ability to retire you know is it is it

worth it to continue to try and fight that battle and you know uh you know if sort of if

we've made do and gotten by with the way we've been doing it is it worth it to try and you know get that try and

continue to get her on board.

>> I I I have like a a physical aversion

>> to the words just getting by.

>> Yeah. Maybe I I I shouldn't say, you know, maybe that's the the wrong word as far as, you know, it we we're just in a

you know, we're in a we're in a good place. >> Have y'all just outearned your spending for all of your marriage?

>> Pretty much. Okay. pretty much.

>> So, let me ask you this. >> That's just been me on a single, you know, and that's maybe just being lucky on how we are. It's me and me on a a single salary that whole time, but yeah.

>> So, just just talking to you and me and George and a couple million people, just us three us three guys.

>> Um, why do you want her on a budget?

Well, you you know I so it's of course

you know as we consider retirement you know the spigot >> yep >> the earning spigot is going to is going to turn off and you know we want to you know frankly we want to be you know I want to be able to sort of stressfree live the retirement we you know we both

want you know >> so so if you sit down with her >> Yeah >> and talk about a budget

as a path to

and and I'm going to use language that Texas males don't use. Okay?

>> If you sat down with your wife and said, "Hey, we're heading into retirement. Our life is about to change dramatically timewise, financially, all of it.

And I won't feel safe in my own skin

unless we have a plan with our money.

Would you join me in that?

Versus her feeling like a budget is you trying to control her.

>> Right. If you were open and honest about, hey, I want to solve for peace in

the fourth quarter of our life, the back half, the third quarter, and the fourth quarter, and that means here's what peace looks like for for me. I'd love to hear what peace looks like for you, and then how can we agree together on

here's how many dollars are going to come in from our investments, from our retirement accounts, etc., and here's what it costs to live our life.

and just live in that reality as a way to have peace and inside your own chest to feel safe.

If she won't join you in that, if she looked at you and rolled her eyes and was like, "I'm driving this Suburban. I don't care what you say." Then A,

you know what she truly thinks about you.

And B, yeah, there is a futility to that because you've married somebody who doesn't care about you. Really doesn't care about her, doesn't care about anything other than what I want right this second. My hope is that's not the case. My hope is for 20 years when you've brought up budgeting, it's been about you're spending too much.

Why'd you buy this? We didn't need that. We don't even have a budget. And then she just decides to to to go to war back with you, right?

>> She associates the word budget with stressful money fights >> compl yet another complaining husband. I do all of this, so I deserve this and you come home and you got another box from Amazon. Right.

And I don't know if that's the case. Does that sound familiar? >> Yeah. Yeah, I think I think that's I

think that's fair. You know, I've listened to you guys and I've tried to, you know, the last time I brought it up, you know, it was sort of eye statements.

You know, >> it was on a vacation. You know, it was about a trip and, you know, it came up

last minute and um you know, I I said

no, we can't do that. And I tried to go back and later explain you know I am

concerned about you know how we do that but we just sort

of went back to you know my first reaction which was no and said well that really caused stress and stress out the way I you know so I

don't you know there there's equal blame on >> sure >> equal blame I don't want to make it sound like it's just her.

>> No, of course not. But o own that own that up front. I'm sure >> I have not done a great job of talking about this for the last 25 years.

>> Yeah. Are there I guess are there kind

of tools or resources that I should read or

you know I don't maybe I'm just a bad at it but

um >> I think it's just a different approach.

I don't think you need to read a whole book. >> I'm writing the book right now actually. I just left a meeting right before this show. I'm writing that book right now.

It's just not how it won't come out till October, I think. But um so it's not not out in the world that I know yet. >> Just save the word budget for the very end into the how are we going to do this? All right, we'll just make a a financial plan.

It happens to be called a budget. But start with the vision, the dream, the fear. >> What do we want our life to look like? >> Man, we've just floated through and we've done really well, but I have not done a good job leading us in this area and really crafting a vision for what's going to happen when I don't want to work or can't work anymore.

So, I'm uh I'm I'm 53.

Uh she is a little bit a little bit

older than that.

>> What's your net worth? >> And so, probably about five and a half to to 6 million. >> Amazing. So, you guys are living pretty good. >> We Well, that's you know, and uh I guess it's you know, >> you could retire today. probably I I probably could, but you know, it it's sort of, you know, believe it or not, just it you look back and it's, you know, it's an obscene amount of spending that.

>> Well, are things feeling tight? Cuz you can still say, "Hey, we've done really well. It's crazy that we've worked this hard, have this level of net worth, and things still feel tight." I would love to have extra right.

>> Yeah. Right now, I mean, absolutely, they do not feel tight. Um, you know,

>> so, so a budget for her isn't a matter of survival. A budget for y'all isn't a matter of survival. It's a really a tool to bring you all together and say, "What do we want the next 25 years to look like?" And that's a totally different conversation. That's a different path.

>> It's a transparency and clarity tool.

>> Yeah. Take take her on a half-day retreat and say, "I want to plan our next 25 years, and I'd love to hear what you want that to look like.

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Let's talk to Daniel in De Moine, Iowa.

What's up, Daniel?

>> Hey, guys. So good to talk to you.

>> You too, brother. What's up, man?

>> Just hopefully a quick question here.

But, um, I am looking at taking a uh

position in full-time ministry later this year. Um, and I'm wondering is it

number one, is it morally okay for me to take a religious a religious exemption from uh social security and Medicare?

And then number two, if it is um is it

wise uh kind of considering I guess the

circumstances I'm in.

>> What are your circumstances?

>> So nothing huge. I mean me and my wife were debtree besides the house. Um,

we're already investing 15% into uh,

retirement. Um, but we have a baby on the way. And, um, the other thing too is is going into a position like this, I'd actually probably be taking about a 20k

uh, pay cut. Um, so those are kind of

it. And and the other thing too, I guess, is um, I wouldn't be hired on as a W2. It' be a 1099. So, I'd be paying

the the full extent of of Social Security and Medicare that like I think it's what around 15% if if I if I were

not to uh take that exemption.

>> So, it sounds like you've already made this choice. This there's a lot of reasons this is a tough move.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> There's a lot to think about, too, of what you're giving up here. And listen, I love the idea of not having to pay all these extra taxes for a system that isn't giving me great returns. But you got to think about things like term life insurance. You get strong term life in place if something were to happen to you. Strong long-term disability insurance cuz you lose that with SSDI

long-term care insurance. >> And I've got Yeah. And I've got the long-term I I've got or I guess I should say I got term life insurance. We're good there at the long-term disability.

That is one thing I was I was thinking about, too. Um, but yeah. Yep.

>> What what I what I've I'm going to be honest. I have a I have a bias to this question and my bias is not representative of reality. It's just my experience. And that is I've just sat

with too many 60 and 70 year old pastors who lived on property, lived in a church

house, and got paid pennies

and they have zero nothing.

>> Yeah. And so the discipline it would

take for me personally to never waver in

saving for future me and future wife and

future family.

Um I I I I can say I don't think I would

have that type of discipline. And so while these programs are a mess, an absolute dumpster fire, they are still something. Sure.

>> Right. And my fear is you're not doing this not because you have another long-term plan in place. You're doing this because you're trying to make this job that you really feel called to take financially palatable today

>> and that's making a decision.

>> Absolutely. Yes. I'm definitely trying to to bridge the gap between between the the pay I'm getting now anyway and the pay I would be getting. Yeah. Yeah, it definitely make it a lot easier.

>> And again, that's solving a problem for f for today you, but it's really leaving future you high and dry.

>> Yeah. If you're having to justify this by saying, well, if I take the exemption, I'll get, you know, 10% back, but you're not going to be investing the difference that you're saving >> if it's already tight. And if your income stays pretty low for the rest of your life, all to get an exemption, well, that was a terrible plan, >> right? Right. So, and as I was looking into this and looking into all the all the different things anyway, um tax

benefit wise anyway, like housing allowances and all this stuff too, um I I think it would be palatable anyway to

um actually keep investing just about the the same amount we are right now.

Um, and if I did take that exemption, it

wouldn't be so much as a 20,000 pay cut

as probably more of a 10 to 12 pay cut,

which is still And my wife works too, so she's making uh okay money, too. And and

so I'm kind of Yeah, I might just be trying to justify this all, but yeah, that's that's kind of what I'm in.

>> So, let me ask you this hard question.

Can you afford to do this?

>> Yeah, it would be tighter, but I mean, we've looked into it and and you know, I felt this call for shoot probably the last 5 years. And

even for if I was to completely take a step away from the money side of it, too. Um, for our future family, I think

this this would probably be still the right right thing to do. um just because

of of I know there's, you know, there's definitely different stresses in ministries, but the job I'm in now, you know, I haven't been happy with since since I got into it six or seven years ago. >> Oh, there's there's few stresses like full-time ministry stress. I grew up in the home of a ministry. It's it's it's chaotic and it's it's noble and it's worthy and it's awesome, right? Um, I I have a gut reaction growing up in this household, a gut reaction to groups of

church leaders who pay ministers very

low and expect them and their families

to show up in certain ways that are financially impossible. Right? So, I that's that's my own baggage. I won't put that on you. Um, is this new job going to give you opportunity? Will you have time? I know a lot of ministers do stuff on the side. My dad had a mowing business on the side for for seasons or he we did janitorial work to help make the bills during those seasons. Do you have um opportunities where you could do that, too?

>> Yes. Yeah. So, I'm I'm working as an electrician full-time right now. Um so, outside of that, there's definitely, you know, side work I could be doing on the side if, you know, if it if we really needed it to.

Um, and and the other thing too that makes me a little bit more comfortable with this is I I've seen the same as you, you know, like ministry positions typically do not get paid very well. This one is definitely on the I think the higher end of of what would normally get paid for this position. So, it's it's definitely more palatable in that way, too.

>> Um, but yeah, there is other ways I could be making income outside of it. >> And and again, I want to say this out loud. We don't do ministry for money, right? Like we don't do it to get rich, right? And >> like that's that's like get struck by lightning kind of thoughts like I want to do this so I can get rich. Like that's not how we do this. >> But also there is a reality it's very very expensive to be alive today.

>> Very very expensive to have a child and to feed and clothe that kid these days, right? And educate that kid. It's just it's insane. And so there is a reality to it also, >> right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's that's one of the other things that uh is kind of just weighing on this decision anyways. We got a baby on the way coming in September and it's our our first one anyway.

And >> you know, I obviously I want to take care of my family, too. >> And and maybe you take this job and you keep hustling on the side for a season to stack cash, >> right?

we can do all the math on paper we want, but there's a lived reality when this is the only amount of money in the checking account and this is the bills we have, right?" And you add a new mouth to feed on top of that >> and she your wife comes home and says, "Hey, I just can't stomach going to work anymore." And do we have a do we have are we setting ourselves up for we're this new value is going to emerge and we can't afford to take that value. Right.

>> Cuz you have to work cuz I took this job. Like so >> which removes your options and flexibility. >> That's right. That's right. So it might be that hey I'm going to keep working electrical work on the weekends and I'm going to keep working electrical work on the evenings and doing odd jobs and whatever so that we can be as flexible

as possible so we can have peace in our house.

Right. >> And by the way, you'll have to pay social security on that side work. And so you'll never escape the system, unfortunately. >> Definitely knew that. >> Yeah. Again, I always want to tell you like what would I do in my house? Um I would I pay into social security and

Medicaid. And so George and you.

>> Yeah. Um I your next steps would be just calculate how much you need to invest yearly to replace all the benefits.

evaluate your insurance, disability, life insurance, make sure that your, you know, organization meets all the IRS rules to do this, and then only proceed if you know this thing is airtight.

You've checked it 27 ways to Sunday, and then you can move forward. But I I would not just go, "Ah, sounds good. Did I have to pay those taxes? I'll take it.

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Well, our team here at Ramsey is super excited. We built a new free AI tool

called Ask Ramsay that is built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And today we're going to break down the most asked questions from the week. A lot of themes here. We got creating and managing budgets. A lot of questions around that. how to deal with credit card debt, retiring versus continuing to work. And the number one question this week was around retirement. What was it, John? >> How much do I need to save and when can I expect to retire?

>> You tell me. >> Well, and it's kind of awesome because off air because I have your cell phone number. I've called you several times and been like, "Hey, I have a retirement question or what about this fund? Should I move this money over here?" And not everybody has your cell phone number.

>> Now, I just text John back with the link to ramiesolutions.com.

I'm not your human Google, John.

>> But it's like having it's like this is like having George or Dave or me or Rachel or Kin like Jade in your pocket >> because it's literally it's built on things we've said on the show. All of our articles that we've written. And so this is really good. I want to take this for a test drive and see how it does with this question. How much do I need to save and when can I expect to retire?

Again, this is a free thing. You guys can jump on ramseyolutions.com and use that Ask Ramsey search bar to ask your question. So, uh I'm going to pull this up. Our team's going to pull up my screen here.

So, if I fat finger something, I'm sorry. There's no Wizard of Oz today. Just me. All right.

Let's see what it spits out. And what's really cool, John, is it analyzes the question and asks me follow-up questions. So, it's a real conversation just like you'd have on the Ramsay show. And we're going to see what kind of follow-up questions it asks.

I'm guessing it's going to need to know, well, how much do we have saved? When do we want to retire? >> All right. I'm going to kick some stuff.

I'll kick some numbers to you. Okay. >> Okay. So, it's going to Yeah.

Let me go scroll to the bottom here. So, it's walking me through how to calculate your nest egg. If you want to have this much, here's how to calculate that. And at the bottom, it says, "What do you think your monthly budget would look like in retirement?" >> All right, let's pretend we have I >> I'll put a big number up there.

Let's say we're going to have $7,000 a month in expenses.

>> Let's say between me and my wife, we have $500,000 in retirement.

>> Okay. >> And let's pretend I could go back in time and I'm, I don't know, 35 years old. >> Got it. Must be nice. and I want to invest 500 bucks a month.

>> I will invest 500 a month. Okay, let's

see if it can figure out how much we really need to create this nest egg,

live off of the income once we are work optional or fully retired. And it's working it's working its tail off here.

Here we go. Found five Ramsey resources.

It recapped our situation, our monthly retirement goal, and it says here we go.

It's calculating based off a 7 to8% uh

withdrawal. Here it's showing us our target nest egg is about 1.1 to $1.2 million not including social security or any other income stream. So it says, are you on track? Right now you already have 500,000 saved and it's going to continue to grow. It will reach about 2.7 million in 30 years at age 65. That's pretty

incredible. So it's telling us we are on track and if you invest more, you could have more and that makes me feel really good. Thanks. Ask Ramsey. Yeah, not bad.

It's that easy. >> That's pretty great. >> Not a lot of people can get through the phone lines and googling things is going to send you into 19,000 rabbit holes.

That is not the Ramsay advice that you trust. So, go check out for yourself. Go to ask your question. Ramseyolutions.com.

You'll see the search bar there. It says ask Ramsay or you can click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. >> All right, let's go out to Santa Fe, New Mexico, one of my favorite places in the United States, and talk to John. What's up, John?

>> Hey, John. said, "Hey, George. How's it going?" >> We're doing great, brother. How can we help, man?

>> So, I'm buying my first vehicle. Uh >> Oh, hey. >> Sorry. You're breaking up on >> Yeah, you're breaking up for me.

>> Sorry. >> Are you inside of a tunnel?

>> All right. We might have to try you again later.

>> Oh. >> All right. We tried our best. We'll try to get you on a clear line here. Um I will go out to Christy in St. Louis instead. >> Let's talk. What number is she? Four.

What's up, Christie?

>> Hi. Hey, how are you guys? >> Remarkable. How are you?

>> I'm doing pretty well. Um, I just had a question. I am 28 and my fiance is 26.

Um, we are planning to get married in

like April of 2027 and I'm trying to figure out kind of how we're going to pay for that. We did get the or a gift

from his parents that they're going to spend about $25,000 um to help us with the wedding and we're budgeting about $40,000 just with extra costs and all that kind of stuff. Um but I have about

$69 to $70,000 in student debt. We don't

have any other debt. And I'm wondering

if we should use part of that gift money to put down towards my loans or if we

should put all of it down towards the wedding and then cash flow the rest or put all of it down towards my loans and cash flow the whole wedding. Or >> George may disagree with me. I I would not take a gift from my fiance's parents to pay off our my student loans.

>> I would use that money towards the cost of your >> wedding. We haven't we haven't told them. Yeah. We haven't told them that's what we're thinking about potentially.

>> I would not do that. I if I gave my kids

like Yeah. I I wouldn't do that. If they said, "Hey, this is y'all free and clear to use however you want." That's a different story. If they said, "Hey, we want you all to start your your marriage off debtree. We're going to pay your student loans." That's that's another thing. But them saying, "Hey, we want to support.

We know you guys are struggling. We y'all are working really hard. we're going to give you $25,000 to help pay for a nice wedding. Um, and y'all were

like, "Cool. We're going to use that to paint the house." That would not be cool. >> That's my take on it. What do you think, George? >> No, I agree. If it was going to like clear your debt today and it frees you guys up to cash flow this whole thing, then I'd be like, "Okay, that makes sense." Like, you're essentially just trading the money one way or another.

But I would just use this money for the wedding because you need it. It's not like you just have $100,000 sitting around. >> Yeah. The the hold the option you're not mentioning is you and your fiance

deciding we're going to do our wedding for $25,000 and essentially putting 15 grand towards your student loans.

>> Yeah, that was another option. The only problem is we did put a deposit down on a place. It's an all-inclusive um in Florida, which is where we're wanting to get married because our families live out there. Um and it's going to be about 28,000 for the actual wedding, but that's only if it's 100 people.

And we all know that that's probably not going to happen. It's probably like 120 and then they charge per head. So, we're trying to like buffer that a little bit. We're expecting it to not cost the 40,000, but we really just want to have a safe buffer.

Um, >> okay. But hold on. >> We're okay. Which >> hold on.

as though this thing is happening to you.

And I want you and your fiance to get back in the driver's seat of your own lives. The only things that are going to happen with this wedding are what y'all sign your name to and what y'all allow.

>> It's true. >> And so if there's only a hundred spaces, there is only a hundred spaces. And we're going to have to be grown-ups and tell Aunt Edna's cousin's sister's dog's roommate, you can't come.

>> Yeah. And I'm very okay with that. Like I'm very much like a I'm going to set a boundary and I don't need these cousins at my wedding. But he's on the other side. You got a really big family.

>> Well, and I can guarantee you his parents' $25,000 investment is gonna That's >> strings attached. >> There's strings attached. >> And Edna will be on the invite list.

>> And so that might mean What did you What are you in for this wedding venue if you canceled today?

>> Uh we put five or $500, sorry, $500 down

for the deposit.

>> I would much rather lose 500 than 15,000.

And we could pay a $500 stupid tax and say, "Whoa, let's get back in the driver's seat." >> Yeah. The only thing is though, like >> I know you don't want to do it. I know. I know you don't want to do it.

>> But here's the thing.

Well, my student loans actually um I needed that because I got a master's in physician assistant studies. So, I make like a really good salary and I needed that for that um for that job. So, >> what do you guys make a year once you're married?

>> So, once we're married, he'll be a a captain in the Air Force. So, he's going to be making like 110 gross salary and

I'm making the Louis Oliver make right now, which is like 100. And then I'll be making like 120 to 150.

>> Awesome. So you guys can knock out this debt quick once you're married. So that's good. And you should be able to cash flow the rest of the wedding without issue if you continue on, right?

>> Yeah. Well, my thing Yeah. I was going to right now I'm starting to hopefully bonus at my job because I have the ability to do that. So I'm right now putting down about $2,500 a month towards my loans and then I'm putting down $4,000 a month when I start actually when I move in with him in like two months. >> Awesome. So, I'm going to be chunking it down and I'm not going to be putting anything down towards the mortgage with him. He's going to cover the mortgage.

So, that's going to be a godsend. Um, but then I was also thinking like to get Gazelle intense, why don't I just also in addition to my 50 hours a week, go pick up, you know, a Door Dash job and then save more >> before you're married, spend every spare moment you can stacking cash and getting this this debt off.

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This is a great great resource. I love it. All right, let's go back to Santa Fe, New Mexico, and try John again. Hey,

John. What's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Much better. We can hear you well. What's up, dude?

>> The reception in this building is not very great. I'm doing good. Um, so I am

buying my first vehicle uh this coming up Monday. Um, I'm buying it from a co-orker at work. Um, she is selling it for um, $2,000. The truck is worth about

three. Um, I'm trying to figure out how

much um, insurance coverage I should get on it. I've been checking different policies. I've been uh checking um you

know I getting quotes from two or three different companies trying to figure out which ones are better with you know claims and rates and all sorts of different things and just trying to figure out with the truck being worth so low how much coverage should I get on it. >> Where are you at financially?

>> Um so I'm just started working at my

first job um within the past um I think

I've been about here six months or so, six, seven months. So, I have about a

little over I believe 1,500 saved in my

emergency fund. >> Okay. >> I have just under um 4,000 in a um in my

car fund. So, I have plenty of money for the truck and also for repairs. Um and

then um I have a pretty good um

uh mainting account as well. So, like I'm so I'm financially stable from where I'm at at the moment. >> Do you have any debt? >> I do not have any debt.

>> Okay. So, let's talk about your >> Can I just shout you out for getting a $2,000 truck and not getting your first job and going out and buying the biggest, dumbest truck you can get like I did. Good for you, bro. I didn't know those things.

>> My parents My parents have taught me. Well, >> can I ask what truck this is? Cuz I want it now. >> Yes.

>> Oh, yes. >> Epic. >> Yes. Gen one, dude. Did you get a pre-purchase inspection on it?

>> Um, they got an inspection um a few months ago whenever they were first talking about selling it. Um, and so I know what needs to be fixed and they've been doing some minor things like spark plugs and oil changes. That way all I really need to do are some a couple major things. >> Okay, cool. And you have the money set aside for that. >> Yes, >> bro. I have a Gen One Tundra and I love it. I love it. Well done.

>> So, you're talking about how much coverage should you get because it's so cheap. >> Yes. >> All right. So, the one you definitely need, it's non-negotiable, is your liability insurance, >> correct? >> I like to go 250, 500, 250. That's your

split on that.

>> And that's because if you hit somebody, the chances of their car being 50 grand

is >> Yeah. That's 250k per person bodily injury, 500k per accident bodily injury, and 250k property damage. So, that's the part that it doesn't matter what car you're driving, you need to protect everything else. >> Okay? So beyond that, we're talking comprehensive coverage, which is, you know, theft, fire, weather, all of that.

If you're like, "Hey, I could probably cut this because I can replace the car.

If for were to burn up, I can just go buy a different one." And then same with collision. If there was damage to your car from an accident, insurance isn't going to write you a check if you don't have that. >> So if the car is paid off, it's older and low value, which yours is, and you could replace it from savings, then I would do it.

>> Okay? >> Cuz you're riding it fairly tight between the money you have for the car fund and your emergency fund to where you get one more emergency on top of the car being, you know, done. Now, we got a

real situation on our hands. So, I would personally get it for peace of mind so I can sleep good and once I'm doing a little better, more money in savings, then you might want to look at dropping uh, you know, collision or comprehensive. >> Okay. And then also, um, with the collision comprehensive, um, would it be a smart idea cuz I'm

using my car fund for repairs and also saving up for a new car, um, like a better car, you know, a few years down the line. I'm gonna pretty much ride this one to the ground if I can. Um, so

would it be better to get a like a $500

deductible or a $1,000 deductible?

>> If you can swing the $1,000 deductible, it'll lower your premium. And so because you have the money and you could handle the extra $500 of risk, I would take that. >> Okay. >> And the one other thing you should look into is uninsured and underinsured motorist protection.

>> Mhm. >> You know, if medical expenses, if if you're hit by an uninsured driver, hit and run injuries. We're seeing more and more of this sadly where the person driving the car didn't have insurance and so you're not getting anything.

>> So that's worth having and what I would do is jump on ramseolutions.com/insurance and we have trusted pros, a whole network of them across the country, including in Santa Fe that can help you price all of it out and say, "Hey, what would it be if I added this? Okay, what if I took that away? What coverage do you think I should have based on my situation?" They'll walk you through all of that so that you're confident in what coverage you're getting and getting you the best price cuz they'll shop the top companies. >> And John, let me tell you, in my house, I have a a new fancy Tundra.

wife's car and I have my old Gen One

Toyota that we use out in on for hunting trips and stuff like that. I have full

coverage on the two nicer cars. I have

liability on the Tundra and basically I'm just making a deal with the devil that if it wrecks if I wreck it or somebody hits it, it's just gone.

>> Okay? >> And so, but I do, even though I don't have a payment on the other cars, I do cuz those are nice and I want them to be replaced if something happens to them.

So, I pay more for that coverage. Now, I also want to tell you one more thing. I have a Gen One Tundra. I drove it for years before I spent crazy money trying

to make it cool.

>> Okay. Yeah. I'm not interested in bells and whistles. >> I know, but dude, this is like a this is

a drug. Once you put that first thing on it and then the second thing on it, you're going to start seeing cool Tundras everywhere. You're going to be like, "Oh, I want to get new suspension.

I want to get bigger tires." And so, just continue to hold the line like you've done so far. >> Okay, >> that would be awesome. And by the way, >> I have a feeling this car will outlast you. So driving trying to drive it into the ground, best of luck to you.

>> Did you mention how many miles it has on it? >> It doesn't matter. >> Just over just over 300,000.

>> Yes. I just wanted to know to let people because they they go, "John, it's got 100,000 miles. It's going to burn up on the interstate tomorrow." And I >> Oh, no. >> It's a Toyota. >> We've driven the Alcan in our Toyota and Honda like three times. So I mean, and both of them have over two or three hundred miles on it. So yeah, fantastic.

We're used to that. try to set a world a world record. >> Well, it's it's just not hard with those that >> I think someone did over 500,000.

>> Oh, easy. >> Pretty incredible. >> Yeah. Well done, man. Well done. Um, man, you're a wise young man. That's good for you. >> Very few young guys are thinking this way. Yeah. >> Most guys are picking up a $1,000 truck payment >> a month. Not a $2,000. And by the way, can we be honest? This truck doesn't look nice. I >> not turning heads at the stoplight.

Except for bad reasons. They're like, "Oh my gosh." >> No, no, no. There's There's tons of people who are like, "That's awesome. >> It's rock and roll. That's pretty rad.

But yeah, he's not going to meet somebody and she'll be like, "I'm falling in love with you because of your truck." That's not going to happen here. If somebody goes out with him, he'll know, "Oh, she really likes me." Right.

It's not going to be because this truck looks cool. But man, that's so wise for

future him. >> Yep. And honestly, a good, you know, $200 detail, you'll feel like it's brand new to you. >> It's pretty sweet. That's exciting.

>> $200 detail. Where do you get those?

>> That's the going right in my neighborhood. I don't know where you live, John. probably have an upcharge for the family. >> It's way more expensive than that. >> I got a good guy. >> You got a good guy. >> I love the mobile ones. They come to the into the driveway. They get it done >> for $200. >> Yeah. Well, maybe not. You have a gigantic truck. I have tiny toy cars.

>> That is true. That's the difference. >> Tiny electric toy cars. >> There's a lot of square footage. >> Do they use a screened wiper to wipe off a Tesla? >> They They use special gloves.

>> I bet they do. >> They're so sensitive just like me.

>> I bet they do. That's another hour in the books. We'll be right back on the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney joined by George Camel. Let's go out to Columbia, South Carolina and talk to Lee. What's up, Lee?

>> Hi. Hi, John and George.

>> How are we doing, brother?

>> Good. How are you guys? >> We are doing all right, man. man, how can we help?

>> So, I'm trying to uh break out of this

paycheck to paycheck thing and I'm looking for some advice.

>> Excellent. I'm glad you called, man. >> Tell us more. What's your financial situation?

>> So, long story short, I owned a sawmill.

I produce railroad ties, cross ties. I lost my contract two years ago. I went and got another job as a mechanic. I'm making 12280 a week and I have three different loans with mortgage included.

The mortgage is 130 at 4.5 and I have 10

years left on it.

The second one is 5 years on a 4.5

45,000 left on it. And then the last one

is 5 years at 8.5 at 50,000.

Um, that was to clean up my line of credit that I had for the mill. And then I have two credit cards, one 2500, one

2,000, $8,000 that I loan for my family, and then $5,000 miscellaneous.

So, my monthly payments, everything except food like lights, um, mortgage,

and the loan payments are $41.90 a month, and I just can't get out of it.

So, what I'm considering is using the equity from my house. I bought it for

160 with 7 acres just prior to co and I

talked with an auctioneer and he thought he could probably get upwards of 400 for the property.

So, my question is would you guys advise me to do that or hang in there and see what I can work out? >> What did you say your mortgage payment was?

>> It is uh roughly 1,300 a month.

>> Okay. So, it's about a quarter of your Now, that's not your take-home pay, the 1280. Is that gross or is that what actually shows up? >> Gross. >> That's gross. Okay. >> That's gross. Yeah. >> So, it's more than 25% of your take-home pay, but it's not on fire. The mortgage isn't the problem. You're trying to sort of shortcut it and clean up the mess by just selling. Would you just go rent somewhere?

>> Probably. >> Okay. Because you wouldn't be in a spot to buy another place, I'm guessing, if you sold it, took Now, you could clean up all the debt with the proceeds.

Mhm. >> You'd claim the mortgage plus all the other debts which add up to what? What's the total amount of debt you have?

>> Not including the mortgage >> 283US.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you got 150 there. So, yeah. I

mean, you got $150,000 of debt making 60

grand gross.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. The math is not math in here.

Unless there's something that we can sell or liquidate or use a bunch of savings that you have sitting around. Is there anything like that?

I have no savings. I do have my equipment still and that's I don't I'm sure you don't the lumber market is like

murder and so that tanks the value. I

could possibly get 30 to 40,000 for my

equipment and that's about all the assets I have. >> Okay. So that would knock your debt down to you know maybe if we're lucky 110 but then we're still we're making 60 grand.

So, if there's no room for growth with your income right now where you could double that, then selling the house would give you a nice clean slate if you're ready to change your behavior.

>> Well, we are. >> And by we, who else is involved?

>> My wife and I have two children and another one due any day.

>> Wow. Well, congratulations.

>> Well, thank you. >> No time like the present. >> Lots of stress. >> No time like the present to clean this mess up. Yeah. Well, there's other people involved now. Is your wife uh staying home with the kids?

>> She is. And she she would be more than

ready to start clean as well. Um yeah.

>> Could you go rent somewhere for 1,000 bucks if you sold?

>> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. You said that so quickly that I feel good about it. I would personally in your shoes I definitely would consider selling the house. It doesn't sound like there's a lot of variables in your life that are about to change.

There's nothing you could sell. Your income's not going to go up drastically. I don't know that you could get seven side jobs. You could clean this up over the next few years, but I think with the stress of the baby on the way, it would just be so much more freeing to sell the property, rent for a while, and start to rebuild a solid foundation.

>> And your um you said this property that

you bought for 160 is now worth 400

>> roughly. Yes. Our area has seen a rampant increase in uh commercial

manufacturing and etc. And we're also close to an army base, so there's a lot of people looking for houses.

>> Okay. Um, I would not

take the word of an auctioneer.

>> Okay. >> I would go to ramseyolutions.com/market

and get with one of our um real estate pros, >> okay? >> Who will come in and do comps in the area, projections in the area because you may at your your property sold at auction may be at 400. It may sell in the housing market at 600.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And so >> because I know a similar >> similar property trailer house with an acre or two sold for 400 like very close to me. >> Yeah. Like your area sounds a lot like what happened in Nashville a few years ago and stuff got bananas,

>> right? And so I would sit down with a true real estate professional that you trust and we have a whole network of them that I'd suggest you you get with.

That's who I get got with when I sold and bought houses. Um, so it's not I'm

not asking you to do something I wouldn't ask I I didn't do it with my own family. But get a true price on what

this property will go for.

>> And here's the the other thing. You and your wife have to make an ironclad commitment.

>> Because if this works, you're going to be sitting on what? 250, $300,000 cash.

>> You can sneeze and that money is going to be gone. >> Cuz suddenly she'll need a new car.

You'll need to upgrade your truck. You're going to want to do this. And that money will just be gone. Y'all will have to make an ironclide commitment that this money goes into retirement.

This money goes into an emergency fund.

We never ever ever ever ever borrow money again. Ever.

>> Mhm. >> And we have to learn to live on a budget with our $65,000 a year salary.

>> Sure. >> Cuz you're going to feel rich for a minute. >> And bro, you're going to burn your You're going to crack open your nest egg at a real young age with really young kids, man. You're going to be in a mess.

>> Yeah. >> So, the game plan >> we're both ready for something different. >> Good. >> Good. So the game plan would be if and when you sell, use the proceeds to pay down all of your debt. The money left over is going to become your emergency fund. 3 to 6 months. I would lean towards 6 months. Single income family with three kids. I'd feel a whole lot better having 6 months of expenses saved up. And then beyond that, any money beyond even that, then it's okay. We can start saving back up for down payment.

Let's not get out of the housing market for too long. Cuz guess what? The next house you buy is probably going to be a half million dollars. So, you're going to need a giant down payment to make that payment work with your $60,000 income, >> right?

>> So, that's the homework is we're going to put this all to good use. And like John said, no lifestyle creep. We're not having fun here. This was a reset.

>> Yeah. I mean, it it just burns you down every day trying to get on it. I We've made progress. ly paid off a $13,000 credit card last year, but it just >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, you got a mountain ahead of you with that 150. And so that would based on the math, it's a decade plus just to get rid of this. So, I would sell. I would rebuild. I try to get that income up. And you guys will survive this >> and be renting for a while.

Hey good folks, Dr. John Deloney here.

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Today's question comes from Abigail in Pennsylvania. My husband and I are at a crossroads and need your home buying advice. Should we buy a house that is affordable but not in a city that we love or rent for another year until we can afford to buy where we prefer to live?

>> It's a no-brainer for me. >> It's the quickest uh of the day ever.

>> I'm renting for another year to get the thing I want. It's called delayed gratification. If there was some sort of like urgency, we have to move now for whatever reason, then move now. But then you're kind of stuck there. You don't want to be buying a house and selling a year later. That's going to cost you. So rent for another year. Home. Buying a home is the biggest financial decision you'll ever make. So do it with caution and be planted there. >> I don't even have anything to add.

>> That's just my That's my take. One man's opinion, but I want to live somewhere that I enjoy living. >> Did I It's not even that.

>> Is that too much to ask? >> I want to live where I want to live.

>> And if it's going to take one more year of sacrifice, then outstanding. So be it. >> I just I'm glad they didn't say or should we just buy a house now we can't afford in the area? That's That was my fear. That's a very different question.

Yeah, >> but if you're willing to wait, just do it right the first time. >> Let's go out to Philadelphia where we were born and raised and talk to Melody.

What's up, Melody?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Outstanding. How are you?

>> We're doing great, thanks. I am calling today because we have started an addition on our home and because of change of plans,

um we're going to add a little bit more to it. um and increase cost. We are

maxed at our budget. So, I was looking for some advice.

>> I was looking for some advice. Do we take a home equity loan? No.

>> Or should I sell some stock that I have?

>> Oh, I didn't know we had an option B. This is nice. How much do you have in stocks?

>> Um, so I have a brokerage account. This isn't a retirement. And there's about 328,000.

>> Well, let's go. How much of that are you going to need to liquidate to finish this renovation?

>> Uh, I'm thinking around 60,000.

>> Okay. Are we like going to spit shake that this is 60 grand and it's not going to turn into 150 grand?

>> It's already done that.

>> Yeah, >> we've already been down this road.

>> You know what? It jolly it jolly well may. You know, it's kind of touch and go

with the price of construction costs and

they >> rise and fall. Well, they rise.

>> But you didn't you didn't sign a contract that said, "I'm going to build this for this price." >> No, our builder it my husband's able to work with him. So, he works at an hourly rate. Um, and we are purchasing the um

building material. >> Yeah. But this are are are you saving money in your left hand that's costing you more money in your right hand?

>> Meaning if you had never thought of that >> if you had signed a contract and said I want this this addition for $210,000

shake hands. They are responsible for sourcing materials when they continue to go up and up and up and up and up. But by saying, "Hey, we can do this for 175,000 just by I I'll GC it and I got a guy who

will work hourly." Now y'all are into

significant. You see what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. >> It it may be too late for that, but man, >> we're we're very in we're much in a position where we don't have solid answers or solid >> That's the part that scares me because this could be an endless project. Yep.

>> And so I would get some real hard numbers before continuing this thing.

What is your house worth before the addition?

>> Uh, according to Zillow, around 300,000.

>> What's the total addition going to cost you based on what you currently know with all the extra you're going to have to put in?

>> 75,000.

>> Okay. And you said you still need 60 to go. So, you thought this thing was going to cost you 15?

>> No, no, no. I'm sorry. 75 was the original. What happened was it's going to be a fourc car garage and we thought, "Oh, let's add in second floor." >> Okay. So, it's going to be really $135,000 addition >> probably. >> Almost 50% of the home value. We're adding. Are there homes in your on your street that are worth that?

Cuz I'm scared you're going to overbuild the neighborhood. Nobody's looking for a $500,000 home when the rest are 350.

>> We're We're going to stay here our whole life. It's This is not something that

we're we're looking to ever >> How old are you guys? >> Move or sell. >> Uh 47 48 years old.

>> Wow. You're talking 50 more years in this house. >> I wish I was as confident as you. I love my house in my neighborhood, but man, I'm not bold enough to make that statement. I it you you have transformed this project into a I'm oversimplifying it, but a four-pillar four-wall project to a

twostory addition. I think that's worth

hitting the pause button and going and talking to a contractor to see what it would cost to do this thing.

>> And if you might come back and it's triple the price and y'all are still in better shape, great. I would at least want that peace of mind because once you start adding second floors, dude, I want this thing insured and bonded and I want it done right.

>> That's that's just me and that's what I would do at my house. What I pay guys hourly to do all kinds of stuff.

>> I would not pay people hourly to do this big of a project. >> You want the full scope for something this big. What was the brokerage account earmarked for?

You know, honestly, that's kind of like our savings. When we have extra money, we buy stock and we look at it as if we

need it, it's going to grow.

>> Okay. >> It will grow till we need it. >> So, this wasn't for something else. So, now we're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

It's totally fine if you use some of this money to finish the addition.

>> Correct. >> Okay. I would calculate how much you'll pay in capital gains tax returns.

>> Right. Well, that that's kind of the concern. And with the high returns right now on the market and the

percentage rate of buying right now, which one is the better choice for us?

>> Well, I could tell you I would take off immediately. Again, as for me and my house, I would not put on the block the

very house I'm trying to put an addition on that's supposed to be my house for the next 50 years. And when you take out a heliloc to fund another project on that same house, you're putting the house itself on the block. I would not do that.

So, whatever you do, we are not going into debt for this addition. And if you do want to continue on, I would liquidate parts of the brokerage. And you can you can kind of choose which stocks are selling off and you want to choose the ones that are going to have the least amount of capital gains. And if you need help with that, you can reach out to a Smart Investor Pro. You can go to Ramseyolutions.com for that.

But John, I was reminded of this verse from uh Luke 14 that I just want to read out loud because it's so perfect for this situation. For which of you intending to build a tower does not sit down first and count the cost whether he has enough to finish it? Lest after he has laid the foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish." That's a that's a roast right there.

>> I mean, I

don't put a shovel in the ground until I've shaken hands and we've agreed on a price >> because that's an endless >> endless. And I don't I don't trust

myself. I like the fact that when I shake hands, there is always a if you

change after today, not only is it going

to add cost for the whatever you want to to actually change and do, there is a percentage penalty and that puts a that

puts an extra hurdle, an extra set of brakes on my whims and let's just do this and let's just do this because she's right. it's going to be let's add a second story and then it's like well let's just put a bathroom up here and that's going to turn into we need to have an another entrance.

>> Well, we're gonna be here for the rest of our lives. We might as well make it what we want. >> Yes. And suddenly you've burned through that brokerage account and you're taken out of here. >> Well, if you're take the problem is it's exacerbated when you take out debt because you're using your house like a piggy bank and so it's so much easier to go well we can just do more. Yeah, we don't have the cash. We can just take more on the line of >> credit. If if every time you

sell one of those stocks, you have to pay the capital gains on it, you're going to be very particular about what you sell and how much money you're bringing in, and that's going to act as a set of breaks on this endless >> build. Bringing friction back into the process is the way to make a wiser decision. >> And and I I trust Melody that she's

going to live in this house for 50 years.

I don't see that happen almost ever, ever, ever. >> I'll be impressed. Call us back when you're 97. Let us know.

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users on Google Play. Let's go out to

Dallas, Texas and talk to Ann. Hey Ann,

what's up?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Of course. Thanks for calling. What's going on?

>> Yeah, thank you. I'm so grateful actually that someone can look at my situation from outside of the box.

I am considering to file a bankruptcy

and I was wondering if you would recommend doing that or not. Honestly, I

don't want to do that because I'm very grateful that, you know, the banks gave me that money back when I needed it. So,

I want to pay it back, but I feel like I

just can't.

>> All right. Well, tell tell us about your situation. How much do you owe?

>> So, I owe I have five credit cards and

um two business loans. That totals to

123,000.

And I also al about I owe about 35,000

to the IRS and back taxes. Um I used to

make about 150 for years,000

a year. Um and in 20124 I made only

52,000.

In 2025 I made 39,000.

>> I did um you know start doing all kinds of you know gigs and you know delivery

and driving for Uber. I set up an eBay

store. I started selling everything, you know, my expensive suits and, you know, things trying to help me. Um, I also had to

file for forbearance last year. I've been out of forbearance for about 9 months and I just had to

file for another one and I'm in the second one and um but the good thing is my car is

paid off. >> Good. All right. So before we get to the actual money part, okay, what what were you doing for your job when you were making 150 grand and what are you doing now making only 40?

>> Um um I own a business. Well, I sell

real estate. >> Okay, >> that's that's what I did. I sold real estate and um as as you know, I don't know. You know, real estate hasn't been selling very well. >> Yeah, it's been it's been a tough season. Okay. >> Why do you need business loans for real estate?

Uh I back then so when things were great

you know um so 120,000 was for um

marketing and set up the website and

um you know following up with clients they did they took over all my marketing you know front team for me and did everything so I could focus on my clients. >> Okay. And then 60,000 was it's with

Small Business Administration that was taken out during COVID.

>> That that loan is haunting haunting

small business owners still.

>> Um but so George is going to walk you through the money side of this. Okay.

But what I'm hearing is deep deep shame and I want to free you from that. Okay.

You're right. >> Okay. Like you're not the dollar amount

you bring home.

So yes, your business has crashed. Okay.

You are still a person worthy of being loved. You're still a good community member. You're still a fellow Texan,

right? >> Yes. And so >> you have to back out of the the muck and

the mud and the actual stress you have from real bills that need real dollars to pay them. That's all real. Okay. But

on top of that and underneath that, this sense that I am a human failure.

All that is doing is bringing extra weight to an already challenging situation. I want to free you from that.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Let's set that nonsense down. It might be that moving forward, you sell real estate as your side hustle and you get back in the 9 to5, 8 to 5. I'm going to go clock in somewhere and I'm going to go get a real job all day every day with benefits

>> with like get in there and I'm going to do that and I'll sell real estate at night time and on the weekends until the market picks back up. Maybe that's the move. I don't know. But I want you to get to the core.

>> Who am I? And if you're a great real estate agent, what that tells me is you're somebody who serves other people.

You're somebody who listens well. You're somebody who fights for their clients.

And that type of heart is useful in a

million different industries. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> And so trying to hang on to my identity as a realtor is drowning you to the tune of 110 grand a year. Let's let that go

and say, "Okay, who am I? I'm somebody who helps people when they when they need help. I'm somebody who shows up.

I'm somebody who listens. I'm somebody who fights for for people. And man, you that opens you up to a a whole suite of different career opportunities that backfill your purpose on the planet.

Okay. >> Mhm. >> Cool. >> Yeah, I like that.

>> Okay. So, let's walk through the money stuff. All right. And are you covering

your four walls right now? Are you covering your your basic bills? Food, rent, utilities, transportation?

>> Yes, that's pretty much the only thing I can cover. And the minimum payments is where I basically like drive for Uber or

sell try to sell stuff, you know, clothes, my old, you know, whatever I own to repay those minimum payments really because I have several of them and they're not small.

>> Yes. >> Each of them like iOS payment alone is 6

$670 every month.

>> And how long is that payment plan for?

Uh, so 35,000. I don't think they had

like a year. >> Okay. Um, >> well, your goal up front is the IRS debt. That one rises to the top because they can really mess with your life. So, we want to get them off our back before we tackle the business loans and the credit cards.

>> Uhhuh. >> Now, that's going to take getting our income up. That's really the variable here that you can control.

>> Okay. >> And so, this is going to be the hard work. It's easy for me to say go get more income, but I can crunch some numbers with you to show you that bankruptcy is not the only option. In fact, I wouldn't recommend it as an option for you because it will destroy your financial life in a whole another way.

>> Yeah, I really don't want to do that or I really don't um I want to, you know, pay everything off. I don't I feel I you know, it's just not right to do that.

>> So, think about it this way. If we reverse engineer this and just put some facts on paper right now and try to just step away from the emotions, if you put this is a big number, but if you put 3,200 bucks towards your debt, you would be debtree within four years.

>> Really? >> Yeah, that's the math. Take you have $158,000 in debt. So, you can divide it by however many months, whatever your goal is, and go, "All right, that's the number I need to come up with for my debt." Now, that means you need to go make $7,000 a month in order to do that,

right? >> Uh-huh. >> You need to have enough money to cover your bills, cover your insurance, basic expenses, and every extra dollar is going toward your debt. And if you do that, within a few years, you can climb out of this, but not making $39,000.

We need to get back up to a six figure income to knock out six figures of debt.

Are you tracking with me? Right.

>> That means I'm going to go find a 50 or $60,000 year job.

Uhhuh. >> and make more every single year. You're going to be so good at your job. They're going to be promoting you so fast.

And if it's self-employed, now self-employment in real estate, it's a tough gig right now. And so to John's point, if you can go find something that is salary, benefits, steady, you're going to feel so much better about climbing out of this because you're not waiting on that next commission check to come through. >> Right. Right.

>> And by the way, four years of $3,200 a month, that sounds insane, right? It's a long time.

around your ankle from bankruptcy is way worse.

>> Yeah. And I've been trying to pay this off for years anyway. I probably paid it

in multiples, but it, you know, it's on me. >> Well, it's whack-a-ole right now. And so, instead, you're going to do the debt snowball method, and I'm going to help you and walk you through this. So, I'm going to gift you my book, Breaking Free from Broke, Total Money Makeover, and give you the Every Dollar Budgeting app, so that you have a game plan instead of just spray and pray. We're rooting for you.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsay trusted agents

aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseyolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseyolutions.com/hold,

I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him and he with me. Revelation 3:20.

The quote of the day is from Bruno Mars.

George's man, George has Bruno Mars tattoos on his chest. He loves that guy.

>> My ceiling in the bedroom.

>> You can't knock on opportunities door and not be ready. All right, let's go out to the 512. Let's go out to Austin, Texas, and talk to Natalie. Hey, Natalie. What's up?

>> Hi guys. I'm so excited to talk to y'all. We're excited to talk to you. What's going on?

>> I am 27 and I'm wondering should I buy a

house this year by myself or wait until

marriage to share that whole experience and homeowner responsibility. Um, we're not engaged yet, but probably headed that way in the next like year or so.

Obviously, I don't want to bank on that happening. >> Oh, you're so wise. a huge it also seems like a huge milestone that I want to share with him, but I also don't want to miss a good opportunity to buy a house.

>> Well, are you financially ready to buy a house on your own right now as it stands? >> Yes. >> Tell me about the the money here. What are you thinking about buying? How much do you have saved?

>> Um, I've got saved about 300,000.

>> Natalie, what are you doing?

>> I've just been blessed >> with it. What's your income? People want to know how you did this.

>> Um, my income fluctuates. Uh, my base is

around 117, but the job I'm in,

um, has some pretty awesome bonuses.

>> And you have no debt?

>> No debt. >> I love it. Okay, hold on. You've been blessed. Yes. Fair. And you've been

really wise and a good steward of this money.

I would like to think so. Yeah, >> because I have lots of friends in

Austin, Texas, and if they had that kind of money, it would be in invested poorly

in really flashy automobiles, houses they can't afford. Like, they would be up to their eyeballs, right? >> You're in like the 0001%.

The fact that you're a single woman, no debt, with 300 grand sitting in the bank. So, you've worked your butt off to be blessed. >> Does this guy know? >> Yeah. I'm very curious because I'd be like, "Let's get married sooner." >> Yeah. What's he What's this idiot waiting on?

>> Cuz not only do you have money, you're like a wise, good human being.

>> Yeah, he does know. And get this, he doesn't let me pay for a single date.

>> Yeah. You know why? Cuz he's Texan. Well done. >> Yeah, he's a good one. >> Yes. Well done. >> I love it. So, should you buy a house? I know you want to share the joy. And the truth is he's going to get the joy of home ownership for the rest of his life.

Like if I if just picture it if he's stepping into the situation and you are fiscally responsible, you've got a reasonable mortgage payment. Now he steps in with his income too and now you guys crush through this mortgage. I don't think he's going to be like, "Man, I just really wish I was there at closing." You know what I mean? And by the way, >> um I I don't know who you've talked to.

I have bought a lot of houses over the years. None of them have been a pleasurable experience.

And and and by the way, that includes

when I am using a mortgage lender that I

trust, a realer that's a friend of mine, and the closing attorney is a is a college roommate of mine. The whole process is still so stress induced. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. And so, I don't know what you've imagined this will be like, but I almost think you would be doing both of y'all a huge favor if you just bought this house.

>> Okay? And don't share the grief with him. >> I mean, he's going to share the grief if he's dating you.

>> Fair point.

>> There are some things to think about though with a long-term decision like this of, you know, where do we both work? Is this going to make sense for us? Are there going to be major renovations? Do I like the area?

Does it have good schools in case we start a family here? So, there are things to think about, but I would go ahead and get your foot in the door of this housing market, especially before it ramps back up, cuz I have a feeling at some point it's going to get crazy again. Wh why why do you feel >> Is the 300 grand just burning a hole in your pocket?

>> Uh I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I'm just so sick and tired of dealing with property management companies. >> Ah, you get to deal with yourself soon enough. >> You're like, "This toilet's not working." Oh, dang it. I got to fix it. >> I got to fix it.

>> Sometimes I would rather just do it myself. >> A true Texan right there. Well, Natalie, I'm so proud of you. Uh I would definitely start shopping.

Start to see what's on the market, what's in their budget. Stick to a 15-year fixed rate mortgage. Make sure the payment's not more than a quarter of your after tax income. And you will be in such good shape.

Cuz once you have dual incomes, maybe you decide once you have a kid, I want to stay home. And it'll be a no-brainer because you did it everything the wise way. >> Or let's just take two years and let's just pay this house completely off, which would be amazing. And then >> she's going to be a multi multi multi-million.

>> Have a paid off house before I'm 30 and I can do whatever I want. That's amazing. Good for you, Natalie. That's awesome, dude.

Let's go out to Houston and talk to Kevin. Hey, Kevin.

>> Hello. How's it going?

>> Good, man. What's up?

>> Uh, yeah. So, basically, um, graduated

law school in May and having a lot of trouble finding positions. I'm about to take the bar exam in a few days and, uh,

just wondering what advice you guys had.

>> What kind of law you want to go into?

Um, well, I was hoping to be in-house counsel somewhere. I would love to do that. That's a little tougher to get into. >> Yeah, that's that's tough for a first year grad. That's almost impossible.

>> Yeah. >> Like that like my students and my friends who are attorneys, um, that was always like a destination. I want to get there one day, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I'm also looking into re more realistic options like family law as well. >> Okay. in estate planning. >> So, have you have you >> I've just done Oh, sorry.

>> Are you struggling with Have you sent out a bunch of applications?

>> Yeah, I mean hundreds. I lost track at

this point. >> So, when somebody tells me they've sent out hundreds of resumes, almost always they are applying to online job application inquiries. Is that is that

true for you?

Yeah, I mean I think I would put it into

different categories where, you know, I have tailored applications. I mean, I've

still done hundreds of those and applications through contacts that I know. >> Okay. >> But um yeah, and then the category of

like, okay, let's just put a resume in,

put a cover letter in, and see where we go from there. and and and personally I don't count those because the the ability for anyone to even get to those resumes these days is so hard, right? Um

I much prefer you focus on folks you

went to school with. Um, a lot of my students would one person would get into a firm and then two or three of them would end up working at that firm or one person would get a job at the DA's office and then four of them would fall into the like that tended to be what I saw how my students got their foot in the door at places. Um, do you not have

access to a career services department

at your law school?

>> Um, I do, but it's very limited,

especially in my case. like they don't have a lot of postings and you know when

you do talk to them they just refer you to the postings and in my case I got a

scholarship in a law school in a different state >> and now I'm trying to get my license in Texas. >> Yeah. >> Do you think that's hurting you? >> Yeah. On top of not having pass the bar yet? >> Yep.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously not passing the bar, but yeah, the lack of

opportunities through the school is a little rough. >> Yeah. So, I I here's what I would focus on. I would put every single aim, every

gun I have at passing the bar exam, period. >> I would join both the the local community bar association and the state bar association, and I would look at every government opening right now

>> in a >> Yeah. >> in a 1-hour radius. And you might not want to do government law. You may not want to do assistant DA work.

You may not want to do that kind of work, but that may be the only work available to you. And by the way, those are opportunities for you to get a ton of different cases and a ton of different clients and rub shoulders with a ton of different attorneys and judges that can help you begin to network for your next move. But that's that would be where I'd start right there. >> I'd quit applying and start going, "All right, I need to set up 15 conversations this week with people that are in this space." Maybe it's the alumni.

Maybe you know a judge's clerk. Whatever it is, just go, "Hey, I'm going to hang. I'm going to see how I can add value to their life. Get to know them." It's not a desperate plea for a job.

You're just making the connections and they might know a guy who knows a guy and that's how you get it. Or that temp job or contract work turned into full-time work or they knew somebody who was looking for somebody. That's how people get jobs in the real world these days versus the spray and prey. I click some buttons and hopefully it's an addiction.

>> Nobody's calling me. Yeah. Yeah.

Check them out, too. Thanks for the call, brother.

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## 58. Financial Irresponsibility Always Has a Cost | April 8, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios, I'm Dave Ramsey. This is the Ramsey Show. Jade Wall, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

All right, Taylor is in Dallas. What's going on, Taylor?

>> Hi, Dave. So, I'm calling in. Me and my husband got married about seven months ago and over the course of this tax season and gathering all of our documents, unbeknownst to me, he has not paid taxes for 23 or 24 and now 25.

>> And so, yeah, kind of a big deal going into a marriage wanting to know something like that. I'm very type A and on top of that sort of thing, I'm a W2 employee and so it's pretty simple, straightforward every year. He is a 1099 graphic designer and so now this year

we're in years past I would get a return. we are going to owe a pretty big deal on top of owing for 23 and 24. And so I just kind of want some advice on what to do. I will say first and foremost, same day I found out, I contacted a CPA and we're in the process of, you know, we finalized 2025 and we're working on 23 and 24, but definitely unexpected, you know, going into a marriage and now having what could potentially be up to a 35 or $40,000 debt.

>> Wow.

>> Okay. >> So, what does Mr. Creative say about his irresponsibility and lying to you?

Well, he is it has been a rough couple weeks. He obviously is very apologetic and in his words, it wasn't intentional.

It was kind of in the back of his mind and he knew it was not going to be good.

But in his mind, he didn't realize it had been that long since he had paid taxes.

That that doesn't make me feel better.

>> Makes me feel worse.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Like what else is rumbling around in your little mind that you haven't told me about and you forgot and didn't think it was important? Yeah, that was definitely my first question as well. The first couple days when I pulled or asked him to pull up the IRS website so I could gather our documents and I realized that it had been that long.

Yeah, that was not a good feeling.

>> How long were you uh together before you got married? >> We've known each other for uh seven years. We've known each other since college. >> Okay. >> How long were you dating?

>> On and off for a while, but um about a year before we finally got engaged and got married. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, well, you did the right thing by getting on the ball and getting a CPA and and getting a hold of this. Um, it does

point to a deeper issue. Um, because

this all came about as a result of your diligence and and you being on top of things and this was all solved as a result of your diligence and you're being on top of things. Yes.

>> For sure. So that's where my issue is and that's probably where my conversation would start is uh this is a

behavior that won't be able to continue.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Have you started that conversation?

>> Not if you want to live.

>> Well, here's the thing. For being a young married couple, I've been intentional about us saving. And so we have a decent amount in the bank right now that once we know >> that's besides the point. The the money here is not the problem.

I'm not concerned about that. you'll put money aside if you're concerned how we can talk about that. The problem here is my mom used to tell me, she'd say, "The patterns that you allow from the beginning will be the patterns that persist throughout the marriage." That's what she told me. She's right.

If you allow things to persist, so for you, this is something that you guys have got to grab hold of immediately. And if I were in your shoes, I'd really be kind of searching searching my memory and searching my heart. Is there anything else that sounds like this that's been going on to to where I'm seeing a pattern? Because if I'm seeing a pattern, then I'm really concerned.

If this is not a pattern, this is just a concealed incident. That's very different.

But nonetheless, this is a conversation.

Have you had that conversation with him about the behavior? Not the money, the behavior.

>> Oh, for sure. That was the first thing because to me it's it's the dishonesty of not knowing that because that would have been vital information you know going into things and so we've definitely >> definitely had that conversation and >> you know I did say it's not something I can just get over in a day like this takes time because it is it is kind of a big deal especially with the dollar amount it is you know I I file every year I'm on top of this and so to find out that not only are you not W2 which I knew but to know that nothing's really been set aside with that in mind that oh yeah I'm going to owe this amount >> here's where I want to get to if I'm you and him for that matter where we need to arrive at.

Okay, you've already done the tactical things.

All that's done. I don't want this to settle into you're his mommy and you spend the next rest of your life bailing this guy out. Uh every time he is irresponsible or forgets something and throws it in the bucket of, "Oh, I'm a creative. I don't do details." No, I'm going to kill you.

It's not going to happen. So, I mean, really, I'm going to lose it right here.

you're a creative, you also have to be an adult.

>> And adults file taxes. Adults take care

of business, even if it's not their natural strength. So, as long as we both

are together on this and we're two adults making decisions about all the adult things, then together from this

point forward and there's no more deception or no more I forgot and mommy take care of me. We're not going to we're not going to run that script out in this marriage. We're going to be two grown people >> handling our responsibilities within our strengths. And you've got natural strengths toward detail and task orientation that he doesn't have. And that's fine. I have that. My wife is more uh more of the free spirit that we call them the nerd and the free spirit.

You're the nerd. He's the free spirit. I'm the nerd. Sharon's the free spirit.

So on. Right? So you can accept those things, but that does not give you a pass on emotionally carrying the weight

of the household and the making of adult

decisions together with me. You don't get a pass on that. >> Yeah. And so as long as we can make as long as you feel assured maybe meeting with a marriage counselor a couple of times and you guys get some language to this that you can >> that that some tools in your belt so that he really grasps >> uh what this does to your psyche >> and that that that we're not going to have a pattern going forward to your point Jade then I I'm good with it.

I I think you've you've done everything perfectly.

We're not going to get here again. And the way we avoid that is the two of us standing side by side, both of our shoulders bearing the weight of being adults and then we make the decisions together. Then having said that, you know, he's going to have more of a natural tendency towards fun and creativity. You're going to have more of a natural tendency towards detail and task orientation. And that's good. We'll utilize those strengths in executing the plan that we develop together.

>> Yeah, it's really important. I think a lot of times in the beginning of marriage, you kind of tiptoe around things. Everybody's still trying to be on their best behavior. You don't want to rock the boat. You don't want to, you know, be too strong on certain things, but actually now is the time to really lean into those issues and try to write get them right side up early on.

>> Yeah. And she's so on it that this this is like >> listen, she's going to be the best thing that ever happened to him. Yeah, he he got he got lit up and he deserved to be

>> he deserved to be lit up.

>> Oh my gosh. Jordan is in Lancing, Michigan. Hey, Jordan. What's up? Oh, nope. You're not up. You're going to be up after this commercial break. I'm going to learn to do this podcast radio thing one of these days.

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Jordan is in Lancing, Michigan. Hey, Jordan. How are you?

>> I'm doing better than I deserve. Dave, how are you? >> Just the same. How can I help?

>> Well, I'm 20 years old. I've got a wife

and a baby on the way. Uh, no debt,

making a decent amount of money, saving up money for a house. >> What's What's decent money?

>> I make about 70 grand.

>> And does she work outside the home?

>> She is getting her nursing degree this

spring. She'll be passing. Um,

so she works, she babysits a kid right now, but >> So she's going to make more than you. Okay. >> Probably. >> Yeah, definitely. I mean, a nurse ought to make more than 70. Yeah. Okay, cool.

Good for y'all. >> Yeah. Um I'm wondering if it's

financially responsible to want to buy a bike before I buy a house. And when I say bike, I mean motorcycle.

>> Um I I would go with yes because

>> yes, it's irresponsible. >> What? And my reason for just thinking that outright is one is strictly for you and the other is for the wife and the baby and the family and everybody else to live in >> and for the future. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I I >> reason I'm asking you is I got a big big uh tax return and I was like, man, this is nice. I've got I've got a nice big chunk of money that I didn't expect coming.

>> Yeah. And um the interesting thing is if the man that has that has responsibilities wins the fight, >> the boy that lives inside of you gets to buy his toys.

>> Well, that's >> meaning that you do things in the right order, you'll get to bike someday. And

um if it's not out of order, and it's out of order if you do it now. Yeah. But I can easily see 20 years old. I mean, that's still, >> you know, but yeah, you got married and had a kid. Hello. And now, you know, so it it just all of a sudden changed, right? So, >> uh, and all your buddies, you know, they may not have the same >> grown-up responsibilities that you've signed up for recently.

>> So, um, yeah, >> you know, that kind of thing. So, all that's the environment you're in, but yeah, the the >> the truth is when you're 30, which one will you be glad you did first, the house or the bike? You'd be glad you did the house first. >> Your 30-year-old version of you won't look back at the 20-year-old version and go, "Come on, dude." you know, you know, you don't you don't want the 30-y old version talking to you, the 20-y old version of you that way.

>> Nope. >> And that So, yeah, go get your house, get out of debt, build an emergency fund, and buy some toys and buy some buy her a nice couch or whatever it is she wants. And you guys, you know, but you do that in the right order. You know, we're also not going to spend uh the equivalent amount on the baby's nursery

uh dressing up everything in the rental house while we're trying to save up for a home. And and so, right, >> yeah, if you just go, >> what would the future version of me want to do? That that's the mature side of every one of us, then I get to do that.

And by the way, I'm a guy that's got a pretty good collection of toys today.

But I got them after they didn't matter

financially and my family was more than taken care of and we were set. And so now when I buy a toy, it's irrelevant to the financial situation. And that's the yeah >> the the manly the grown-up way to do it.

But it's you know but you're I'm 65. I

still have that guy lives inside of me that fights with the other guy inside of me. And everybody does. Right.

>> That's right. >> So it's cool you asked the question though. That tells me you probably have a clue. >> Uh pro >> like you already knew the answer. >> I was going to say his conscience was uh telling him. >> He wants somebody else to tell him what he already knew. >> Uhhuh. Uhhuh. Well, if we didn't tell him, his wife was going to tell him.

>> We do a lot of that on this show.

>> I know. >> Tell people what they already know.

>> And we make good money telling them what they already know. It's kind of ridiculous if you think about it, man. >> It's not bad. >> All right.

Bridger is in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hi,

Bridger. How are you?

>> Good. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Well, I'm newly married, about eight months married, and I and my wife

previously got married, made some not best financial decisions, but we recently got access to $27,000 through a

trust fund, and just wondering your guys' expertise on the best way to

utilize that and turn our life around.

>> Cool. That's a great question.

>> Yeah. Tell us tell us about your current finances. You said you made some mistakes. What do those look like?

So, we have two car payments.

We got one that is $16,000.

>> Mhm. >> And then her car is $20,000.

>> Mhm. >> Both of those total up to $1,000 a month. They're both each $500.

>> Wow. Yeah. >> What's your household income?

>> We both make $55,000.

>> So, 110 or sorry, both to together. Your total household income is 55, >> correct? >> What are your careers?

>> Um, she is a receptionist and I work for

my dad. >> How old are you guys?

>> I'm 20. She or I'm 21, she's 20.

>> Okay. So, 16 on a car, 20 on a car, and what else? In debt.

>> We did have 8,500 on credit cards. Um,

but about a week after we got that trust fund, we paid all of those off.

>> Did you Did you cut them up?

>> Uh, not yet. No.

>> You got to cut them up >> by the time when you get off the phone, get them out and cut them up. >> Uhhuh. Otherwise, you're going to run them back up again. >> Yeah. >> Now, after you paid that out, after you pay that off, now there's 27,000 left.

Or is that less >> the credit card? >> Well, that's what it started out as. Now, we currently have 17.

>> Got it. Okay. Um, we had to spend $500 on a car repair and then we already

spent $1,000 on our discretionary spending. >> Got it. Is there any other debt laying around besides the cars?

>> That's a cool way of saying I just blew $1,000 discretionary spending. What are you in Congress?

>> No, definitely not.

>> Is there any other debt besides the two cars?

>> That's about it. Just the two car payments. >> Okay. Okay. So, we >> And you're 20. You guys are 20 years old, >> correct? 20 and 21. >> Okay. >> Uh, okay. So, there's there's two things at work here. First off, you guys' income, uh, we got to get it up.

Somebody's not working full-time hours.

Is that you or your wife?

>> So, we're both actually working about 40 hours a week. I try and work 50.

>> Yeah. Your job sucks. >> Her receptionist job is not not the best. She does not definitely could make more. Yeah, he's an aesthetician on the

side. >> So, we're trying to get that up. But, I mean, that doesn't really bring really anything. >> Brer, here's the thing. Here, here's some data points for you from 35 years of doing this. All right.

>> I have never met someone that became a

millionaire when they owned cars

with payments.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, I believe it. You're getting killed by your cars. You signed up for

it, but you're getting killed >> by your cars. So, what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? I don't know if I can talk you into it, but if I can, when

you're 30, you have a shot at being a millionaire. If I can talk you into doing this, >> okay, >> sell both cars, have no payments, use the money to pay cash for a couple of $7,000 cars.

Okay. >> And buy a boring car, not a cool car. A

boring car is one that doesn't have a lot of miles, that grandmother drove to

church on Sundays only, and that your

friends think you're a goober cuz you bought it.

That's a That's a good car. That's a good $7,000 car.

>> Okay.

If you buy a cool $7,000 car, it means somebody ragged out the Camaro.

That's the only way it's worth seven.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, you want a Camry, an Accord, stuff

like that. I'm serious. A grandma car, a boring butt car. Pay cash for them. Get

rid of these two car payments and then do what Jade was talking about and let's work on your careers and and let's double your income in the next three years and never have a car payment again. Because if you do, when you take out a car payment, what you are doing is you're looking in the mirror and saying, "Lord, I desperately want to be middle class the rest of my life." That's what you're saying when you take out a car payment. Because that's what the data tells us. >> Well, he's sacrificing so much money.

>> Oh, yes. Oh, if if you took that car payment from today until age 61, so 40

years, that's $8 million, my man.

>> Yeah. Oh, >> that's stupid money.

>> Hope you like the cars.

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A lot of the old fogies my age make fun of generation Z and made fun of millennials, too. There's a percentage of every generation that's completely useless.

And that includes my generation. There's my generation, the ones that were useless, we called them hippies, okay? And they're still smoking pot at 70 years old. And so they still get on

weed. And but a percentage of every

generation is useless. And a percentage of Gen Z is useless. their participation

trophy collecting, living in their mother's basement, making fun of capitalism with a $1,200 Apple phone that their mother

bought them. They're useless. But we

also get the most of the generation Z is

pretty incredible. I think it's my favorite generation.

>> I've I've done this for, >> you know, since the boomers were the target market. When I started this, I was in my 30s. >> Yeah. And so the target market was my

generation and that's who was having little kids and having asking us the same questions we get asked.

>> And um I so I've gone through X and Z

and millennials and everybody and this Z's I mean think about we had two different 20 year old callers already this hour. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Both of them married. Both of them making big boy big girl decisions.

That's right. >> Both of them making big girl big boy mistakes. Okay, they're going to make mistakes, >> but owning them, coachable,

both of them, if they do, and both of them that >> you did not get the push back. Sometimes we get a push back and we all know, all you listening, and we know they're not going to do it. >> They're not going to do it. >> They're not going to do it.

They're not going to do it. Those two though, I think there's a chance both of them are going to do it. And so those two 20-year-olds are probably 30-year-old millionaires because of that one phone call if they follow through. >> Absolutely.

>> And that's why we come down here. That's why we turn these microphones on. It's for you. >> Absolutely.

Those of you that want to listen, those of you that want to do better, those of you that want to win, and take the data of the decades of experience that the Ramsey Solutions has, uh, that started with me, but now it's with everybody else in the building.

being on this microphone taking these same phone calls with different little twists and turns to them, but they're still there. And and so I'm really excited

about what 15 years from now all the Gen

Z's look like cuz they're a very serious

soberminded the one the good ones and I think there's more good ones than normal >> always. Yeah. >> And uh but and they're not who they've been made out to be in the media. That's a bunch of crap. >> So I'm your biggest supporter if you're 22.

If you're using your brain, okay, if you want to plug your brain in, I'm I'm we're Ramsay, we're fans of you. We're

not going to put you down. Now, if you start the other crap, I'll I'll knock you in the head just like I will any generation, right? You start telling me how capitalism it's the problem. Capitalism is not the problem. You're the problem. So, get up off your butt,

leave the cave, kill something, drag it home. That's, you know, get a job. There there's nothing new about that. That's the same in every generation. So, um, you know, and Donald Trump's not your enemy and Joe Biden is either. They're not neither one of them going to fix your life. Look at them.

>> Come on. You got to do this. So, all that stuff and and but I just when we take these calls, I see patterns in these calls coming in like today and it just gets me. I just want to share with you guys observe what we're observing.

It's exciting what this nation could

look like, what this economy could look like based on people like those callers contributing to the economy and becoming a positive thing for their families.

Generational. Think about where their grandkids will be. That guy, if he takes his car payments alone, he'll have $8 million at 65.

>> Yes. >> Now, you put it into the calculator while we were here. >> Plugged it in. >> What if he does that? Talk about I mean

and and then what if the kids that he raises takes that 8 million and turns it into 80 million. >> Yes. >> I mean this is changing your family tree. This is what it looks like. And this is the power of God's ways of handling money of grandma's ways of handling money. We call it common sense but it's so rare. It's like having a superpower. And so we just keep bringing it back to you all the time. And we just got to tell y'all, we're fans of you if

you're 22 or 25. And and and that's assuming you're one of the good ones, okay? If you're not, then you're not going to like it when you call here cuz we're going to box your ears like we would anybody else because we love you and we want you to win and we're going to get you on track. That's what we do.

Sarah is in Albany, New York. Hi Sarah.

What's up in your world?

>> Hi Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? I am calling because my husband and I um about two

years ago by his grandmother's house when she passed >> and we were all fired up about it. It was my husband and I working on it, you know, with our own two hands together fixing it. Problem is, she'd lived in that house for about 50 years and not a lot of work was done to maintain it >> and it is way more than we anticipated.

Um, >> and then fast forward to 2025,

you know, we had a major structure fire.

We're fighting with the insurance company in a different property. Um, we lost my daughter. We had a major water break in the grandmother's house.

>> Oh, you just drove. You lost your daughter. Whoa. You drove by the what?

>> A baby. >> That sucked. >> One of your child children. >> No, she it was one my oldest daughter.

She's grown. >> Oh. How old was she? 25. I'm sorry. Oh my gosh.

Oh, >> so needless to say, >> all of the excitement and drive and you

know what, baby, you and I can do this.

We can fix this house together. It can be for our kids use. It's >> there's no fun left. >> All that drive is gone.

>> Yeah. >> So, what what what is the condition of the property today?

>> So, when we purchased it, it was technically legally livable, but you

know, all the windows needed to be changed out. the electrical knob and tubing. The interior was from the 50s.

Um, >> and what you still >> What is the condition of the property today?

>> So, today we've replaced all the windows. The electrical is still there.

Um, I had replaced a whole bunch of floors and done a whole bunch of painting in there. And then the water break, I mean, I'm talking a swimming pool now because nobody's living in it right now. So, it wasn't caught right away. And that resulted in most of the

interior work that we've done or actually I did most of that. He did.

>> What did you pay for the property?

>> We paid 73 75. >> How much acreage is with >> a half an acre. It has two parking spaces. It technically has a garage, but it's sagging off and it's like >> if it went on the market as is, what do you think it could go for? What do you think you could list it for? If it went on the market as is, we would probably get like 70 for it and it wouldn't qualify for traditional financing because >> Yeah. But that's okay. If you could get 70 for it, you got 70 in it.

>> Is it paid for? >> No. >> Well, you've put lots more in it. >> No, it's >> Oh, yeah. No, between the what we paid

for it, the closing costs, and the money that we've put into it, we're in it for a little over a hundred right now.

>> Yeah. But the money, do you have any debt? What what debt do you have around it?

>> So, there's the loan that we took for at

the end it ended up being like 82 I think for the purchase and the closing cost and then there was or two left.

>> Yeah. And then on top of that we put

about 7,000 on a Home Depot guard which

is all into that house and then we put

other cash that we had into it as well.

>> You're not talking about cash. I was talking about debt. Okay. So in debt you have 82 and 7.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> And where are you living? >> Yeah. So we don't live there. We have

our primary home which we still have a mortgage on as well. >> What is it worth?

>> This house? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Maybe two >> 100.

>> Yeah. 200,000. Yeah. >> And what do you owe on it? >> I mean it could be more if they fix it a little bit. >> What do you owe on it? >> We have about 75 left on it, I want to

say. Okay. All right.

Well, I mean, you have two options.

One is um dig deep and find some energy

and get this thing fixed up and at least get your money out of it and sell it. I would not keep it.

>> It needs to go away. >> No, we're not we're not keeping it.

>> I would fix it up enough that I could get my 90,000 bucks out of it and lose

some of the cash I put into it and all the effort I put into it. But you're going to have to dig deep to find the energy to fix it up that much. Um,

the other option is take a complete whipon and probably sell both houses so

that you've got the cash to take the whipping. But I really wouldn't do that.

I'd dig deep and finish get it at least up to 90 and get where you can at least get the credit card paid off and the mortgage paid off and move on. And whatever you cash you put in it, you just lost. And we've all done stupid things and lost money. Welcome to the club.

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Madison is in Pittsburgh.

Let me try again. Hey, Madison. How are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I was wondering if it would be

smart for me to move 3 hours away from

where I live now to move in with my boyfriend so that I can build up a

clientele where he's at and build my own

salon.

>> Oh, no. What's one thing got to do with

the other?

What's moving away got to do with building the salon?

>> So, the area that I'm in right now,

there's not as high of a demand because there are so many salons over here >> and I also don't have the greatest relationship with my family.

>> Okay. >> So, >> I would rather be around people that

want to be around me. >> Sure. such as his family and him. And he

has also um said that he would help me build what

I am wanting to build if it's over

there. >> Okay. So So what what kind of a salon are we talking about? Hair?

>> No. Um nails. I do nails.

>> Okay. >> I love the idea of you going someplace where you can have the business that you want to have. I love the idea of you exiting what might be a kind of a toxic relational environment with your family. I think that's all great. And and if you've identified the right place to do that, I think that's fabulous. What I don't like is you tying up your

business, your prosperity with someone that you're not married to. Because what happens if this guy turns out to not be

the guy that you marry? Well, now you're tied to him economically, which means if this starts going south, but your business is doing well, you might be less likely to end that relationship because you're economically tied up in it. >> Or Yeah. Or worse than that, your nail salon takes off really, really slow and

so you become financially dependent on a guy you're not married to and he's now controlling the whole thing. >> Yeah. Even worse, >> really not a good thing for you, my little sister. >> I want you to be a standalone woman with square shoulders and a strong backbone.

So, we were planning in about a year at a year and a half we are going to get married. >> Great. >> How long have you been dating?

>> Um, a little bit over a year and a half.

>> Okay. And how how old are you two?

>> Um, I'm 19 and he's 20.

>> Okay. And you you your nail salon clientele

is going to be um

working in a salon with someone else and

and they have the rent and they bring you in and you work for them, but you build up a client base or you're wanting to start a salon at 19 years old in a strange location where you know no one from scratch and build a whole business.

Which one are you saying? So, I have a

job lined up there for whenever I am out of school and I am licensed, which will be around two months from now.

>> And I was going to work there for 2 to 3 years and then hopefully save up enough money to open up my salon.

>> On my own. >> Good. Very good. I like that a lot.

>> How can we help you solve the problem to where you can go there, do what you're saying, but do it without living with your boyfriend?

So, where I'm stuck at is

I'm not I'm not 100% confident in myself

that I'll be able to run and manage my own salon. >> No, you're not. You're you got a job.

>> Yeah. >> So, go take the job. What does it pay?

>> Um, so it's really just going to depend on how many clients I get. Um, I'm pretty sure it's going to be based off of I'm going to pay rent to rent a chair there and then probably pay a little bit in commission. >> So, there's no base pay at all?

>> Um, no. >> Do you have any money saved? Do you have any money to your name?

>> Um, I do. I work right now. I'm a home healthcare aid for my mom. I make 1150 an hour and I have about a,000 saved.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, how are you not going to starve to death >> when you go take this job on straight commission with no base pay?

>> So, I was planning on moving over there

and before I get licensed, I'm going to It really just varies on when I'm going to get licensed. Um, I was going to start at a different job and then whenever um I have enough saved up to be

a enough saved up besides my emergency

fund to >> be able to >> I think I know why your parents are a problem for you cuz they're telling you that this is dumb and you don't want to hear that.

>> It's not exactly that. I just don't I've never really had a good relationship with my dad. Um my mom fully supports me. I just think you need to get yourself in a better spot before you do this. >> This is a nightmare looking for a place to happen. >> Okay. Okay. So, you you don't have any money and you don't have a job lined up to eat. And so, what a 100% this screams

is you're going to be dependent on this guy that you're not married to from the first moment you make this decision. And you don't do that unless you're married.

It's not good for you. You're It's a dangerous, vulnerable situation for you.

He kicks you out. You know what? You are homeless.

>> Yeah. >> Uh-uh.

No. I'm not going to let anybody I love do that.

>> Okay. >> And we love you and we're going to talk you out of it. >> And by the way, even if he was the best guy ever, why would you want to put yourself in that position where you're completely dependent on him? That's that's not a great >> unless you're married.

If you're married, sure, fine. If you're married and he has an income and he wants to support the family while you get your first and second job going here and all that kind of stuff, that's fine.

This is dangerous for you.

>> Yeah. And there's no reason for you to put yourself in that position.

>> I just wouldn't do it. I don't if you you know you need a you need a different set of income a different set of savings to protect you to allow you to be a standing as a standalone grown woman operating in the operating her own home

and then be dating this guy. Yeah.

>> Or be married to him. And I don't think y'all are wanting to get married right now because you don't think you're ready. And I pretty much agree with that. >> If I were her, I'd probably keep doing what I'm doing and try to get a job at a local salon. save up as much money as I think, you know, I need to be able to make that leap and get my own apartment.

And >> if you need to have no contact with your family, but you live in the area where they live, that's fine. >> Yeah, sure. >> It's not a big deal.

>> Just set up a boundary. Just I'm I'm not going to interact with you people. You're morons. I mean, you just just That's fine. You can do that. But I I want you to have a you know some safety for you because when you have to bet

everything on someone else that is not legally bound to you that is a very

dangerous scenario for you. And we get the call when this 19-year-old beautiful

Madison is 25 and she's living in her

car >> and she calls us >> because he kicked her out. Oh, and there's a baby now.

But there's no, you know, we can't find baby daddy because he's not actually the husband. And this this is this is a guaranteed way to end up spending the first the next decade of your life in poverty. Don't do it. Please, honey.

Please, please, please don't do this to yourself. Uh so

uh okay I don't

the uh you have to be able to put when you're making big decisions you have to be able to put all of the key elements of the decision on a piece of paper and look at them and they all have to line up and say this lifechanging major decision I'm

making you know all of these things say

it's a good idea. idea. And when we list them down for you, Madison, all of them say it's not a good idea.

>> Well, you have to run it. You have to run it through not just best case scenario, but through worst case scenario. You have to look at the worst case scenario. >> Absolutely. Well, I mean, best case scenario is you don't have any income.

>> Yeah. >> And you're waiting on clients to walk in the door and you're paying chair rent

and you're living with him and you don't

have any income. So from day one, you are 100% dependent on this guy to eat and to have shelter. That That's your best case. >> Yeah. You're just worth way more than that.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Wshaw Ramsey personality and number one bestselling author is my co-host. Alex is in Portland, Oregon.

Hey, Alex. How are you?

>> Hey, doing good Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Yeah, I I want to know if I can just invest 50,000 into my retirement account and uh then just work on on retirement minimally for the next 30 years until I retire.

>> Well, the regulations don't allow you to

put it into a 401k or a Roth IRA at that

sum, that lump sum. So, no, you can't do

that. But could you invest it? Can you invest it and say in your own mind that

particular mutual fund is my retirement

account? You could do that, but you can't just randomly add 50,000 to a Roth or a 401k.

>> Yeah, that's that's kind of my goal. As of right now, I uh I have about 20,000

invested into various 401ks and Roth IAS. Um I'm about to max out my Roth IRA

for this year. Mhm. >> I'm on baby step number four right now.

Um but I don't have kids. And um

>> if you're on baby step four, then no, I would not do that. >> What's the purpose of you wanting to do it that way? Is that in your mind?

>> You have a mortgage, right?

>> No, actually my mom is uh she's going to help me out with a tiny home and uh I've always kind of lived under my means. My my real goal is to just kind of travel the world um and just to really kind of enjoy the next, you know, 20 years because uh I'm probably going to end up taking care of my mom when she gets into her elder years cuz she's uh she's single. So, um she's going to need need help. So, as of right now, uh like I

said, I have about 20,000 invested and my job is going going to allow me to uh to get to that to about 50,000 that I can invest, you know, this year pretty easily. And I guess what my question is

is can I just invest that all into a mutual fund through a brokerage account and then >> and then just kind of enjoy the next 20 years of my life. >> You could, but it's not enough.

>> Okay. What would >> 50,000 will create $5,000 a year income.

>> Okay. >> It's a great place to park the money while you travel, but it's not a it's not a solution to say and after that I'm never investing again.

I I don't mean never investing again.

It's just uh like right now with my job, I make I work a full commission job, but I am projected to make probably about 180,000 this year.

>> Um I'm totally >> I'm 36. >> Okay. And you're single, obviously.

>> I'm single. Yeah, I completely debtree.

I just paid off my car and I realized I never want to be in debt. >> I work in home improvement.

>> Okay. All right.

Um,

okay. Uh, you're you're mathematically not ready to do what your dream is yet.

>> Okay. >> You're going to have to work a few more years to do that. Um, and so I mean, you're making $180,000 a year. If you

need uh $30,000, if you need $50,000 a

year to travel, then you need a half a

million. >> Oh, no. No. That's not what I meant. I I'm thinking of just in uh bringing my retirement up to $50,000. I I put the

numbers into your website and I was looking over >> and and then quit.

>> Huh? >> And then quit and then go travel the world. >> No, I mean I I would work periodically.

I just want to, you know, take a month off here, a month off there, come back and work, and then, you know, just kind of have the majority of my money go towards traveling and then anything that I don't spend go towards retirement, >> right? the majority of the money that you're earning, not that lump sum. That lump sum is just going to go away forever. >> Corre correct. That's just going to go into my into my brokerage account and max out my 401ks every year.

>> Okay. It's never a bad thing to invest.

And so investing is a good idea. It's never a bad thing to have fun. So having fun is a good idea. It's never a bad thing to be generous. As a matter of fact, people that are wealthy and healthy do all three. And so, yeah, I

think now that I'm understanding your plan a little bit better, I thought you said you were I misunderstood. I thought you were saying, "I want to put $50,000 away and never never work again and go travel the world." And I'm like, "Yeah, dude. You're going to you're you're going to be skinny, you know? I mean, >> the 180 that you make now, what do you think it'll go down to when you're kind of doing this plan and and working periodically?

And what do you anticipate that being?" >> It's performance-based. I mean, I uh I was pretty thin last year and it it went down to 80. Um just because business was slow, you know, I guess the market I was in was a lot slower than what I'm in now.

>> What I'm getting at is if it's just you, you're still earning a fine income. I mean, $80,000 while traveling. Is there a way where you can still do some investing and that you're not putting it completely on hold? >> Yeah.

kind of wondering what a good number to shoot for would be after I hit that after I invest that the rest of the 50k.

>> I think it's whatever number allows you to continue to do what you're planning to do, but I don't necessarily know that you need to live on 80,000 while you're traveling. Maybe it's >> if you make 80,000 and you put 15% of that away and you have an emergency fund and you spend the rest of it on travel and living, uh you're going to be okay.

>> You just kind of follow the steps.

I've always been minimalist. So, I mean, I I've, >> you know, I've spent as as little as like $1,000 a month before.

>> That's what I'm saying. I think you can do both. I don't think you have to say, "I'm not going to invest anymore." I think that you can continue to do that.

>> So, I want you to I want you to work enough that you make at least 80 >> and I want you to put 15% away and I want you to take as much time off as that allows you to take off and travel and put the 50k with a smart vester pro.

Go sit down with one. Go to ramseysolutions.com, click on smartvester. You sit down with a professional investment company. They'll help you, teach you, show you, and understand your plan and what you're trying to do. And uh now that I understand a little bit more, but if you could do that right there, >> yeah, >> could put 15% away, travel, live minimalist, >> make it make a minimum, work enough, you make 80, >> then you're making more than most people. And and and you can go travel.

Have at it. Have at it. Oh, and by the

way, as young as you are, your mom's young, maybe she ought to actually have a freaking plan so she has some money.

>> A good point. >> So that you she's not a burden in her old age. There's an idea,

man. So, I had a really crass friend

that was in his 80s and he was a multi-millionaire and he was kind of a jerk, >> honestly, but he was a friend >> and um but he used to say this all the time and I don't like it, but it it there's enough truth to it that it needs to be said. >> He said, "You know what an old man is that's broke?" I said, "No,

in the way." Oh, >> he said, "You know what an old man is that's rich?" I said, "No." He said, "Grandpa." >> Oh, well, >> I don't like that. >> Listen, I tell you what wrong.

>> You know, one of my goals is to not be in the way. >> Be grandpa. >> I don't want to be in the way, >> man.

>> Listen, he's telling the truth. >> Well, he's grouchy. I mean, >> grouchy kind of like Oscar in the trash can on Sesame Street. This guy's got that down. But but uh Yeah. Yeah. But

still, it's like I don't like that. Not everybody. No, people aren't that. Yeah, they are. >> Yeah. I mean, you don't want to be the burden. You don't want to be >> I don't want to work my whole life and then be a problem. >> Yes. You want to be able to be fun.

>> I end up working in McDonald's at retirement. It needs to be the one I own in St. Thomas. You know, come on. Hello.

I don't need to be, you know,

I'm sorry. I'm not mad at you people, but there's no chance I want to be a Walmart greeter >> as my retirement golden years. Okay? No

chance. I I don't mind saying hi to you in Walmart, but I don't want to be paid to do it. Hello. Okay. Bye.

>> So, come on.

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Ann is in New York City. Hi An. How are you? >> Hi, I'm great. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> I I love it. So, I had a question about life insurance and estate planning. My husband and I are in our mid30s and we have a 2-year-old baby. I knew that term life insurance was something that we had to get. Um but I recently got into a car accident. I'm okay. My car is totaled and that really brought this um task of,

you know, life insurance much more to the forefront. Good. So, I >> I'm sorry you went through the car accident, but I'm glad you're awake. Okay, good.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um, we've been working very diligently in baby steps, too, and we're about like um three or four months away, all depending on when we get our refund because we're just going to put everything to the final debt. So, with the term life insurance,

should I'm assuming we should be putting that as a line item now and probably adjusting. Okay. Right. That makes the most sense.

Yes. So then, um, my follow-up question is, when it comes into budgeting for like estate planning, I know we're going to have to hire a lawyer, draw up a will, and all of that stuff is going to cost more money. Um, >> you might not need to do all that just yet. You could take the wills quiz that we have, and you might be able to just do one online quickly with Mama Bear >> and not get any not do any lawyers or anything like that.

>> Um, I I think I'm at 10,000 now. Yeah,

you don't you don't need a lawyer. >> Do a state specific will. >> Yeah, you need you just need to go to So, let me help you. Both things. We can do both things for you. They're both trusted people that we've done business with for years and years and years and years. So, xanderins insurance.com.

Z-de for 30 years.

>> I've told people to go to Xander.

They're my insurance agent. Jeff Xander is a personal friend of mine, >> okay? and they shop among a gazillion companies to get you the best possible deal on a term policy.

>> Okay. >> And then go to mama bear go to mama bearle legalformms.com and like 70 bucks >> you can have a will okay >> done and it's perfect for you in New York. It it all will be state specific.

And so this this is software that will print out a will for you that's for New York. You have to feed into it what you want the will to say and then it'll print it out and then you sign it and it'll tell you what the proper notary or whatever you have to do in New York is.

I don't know that. But some states require notary witness. Some just require a witness. Some don't require anything. So you just got to know your specific state and they'll tell you every bit of that and it's like $50 to $70. You'll have the whole set of documents. You'll have a full estate plan. You'll have your life insurance in place and you really your budget won't skip a beat.

Okay, I love it. Um, I suppose a follow-up question as well. So, my husband and I, we have um combined earnings are about 150 a year, but we

have each of us have side businesses that have been doing well and we love it. So, I know that once we get past Baby Steps 3, then I know we're like we're on track to becoming um the Babysionaires.

So when it when our net worth continues to increase, I'm assuming that the life insurance policy and like the state specific will, that's something that we can upgrade. Yes. I suppose in a few years.

>> Yeah. If you if you start to have a multi-million dollar net worth, you need a lawyer >> to do your estate plan. Okay. It's worth paying an attorney at that point.

>> Um if if you um and you know, unless

there's just something super simple about your will and everything, it's okay. You could still do it. You could have a $10 million net worth and be just fine with a simple will for mom states.

>> But if you want to spend a little bit of money at that point, have an attorney look at it. That's perfectly fine.

Nothing wrong with that. And life insurance, you could just add some more policies if you want. Keep in mind, Ann, that what you want to buy is 15 to 20year level term insurance. And it and

it should be about 12 times your income on you, about 12 times his income on him. And that way if something happens to you in a car accident, god forbid,

>> he could take that amount of money, the 12 times your income, and invest it and it will produce your income >> without touching it. >> Okay? >> And so let's just say you made $100,000

and um so he so you took out a million two and he invested a million two. that

will create $100,000 of income without touching the million two forever perpetually. And so that's where we came up with those numbers. And here's the thing, you're in your 30s. If you're not overweight and you don't smoke, a million dollars then cost hard. It's the cost of a pizza to get life insurance.

And it's just ridiculous that people don't have it. So you need to go get your stinking do the things she's talking about. And I'm really glad she called and I'm uh I'm sorry she had that accident, but I'm really glad it woke everybody up. And we said, "Hey, we got to deal with all these things cuz stuff happens in life." >> Yeah, she's paying attention. And that's that's the best thing you can do is pay attention to what's going on. Be intentional about making those solutions. And don't wait.

>> Life insurance is not a baby step. And I think that's the thing to remember. I remember having that aha moment even back when Sam and I were paying off our debt because the truth is you do wrestle with it in your mind. You think, "Oh gosh, I I'm cutting in so many areas.

Too broke to die. I'm too Yeah. And and the last thing you you want to do is add something to the budget, >> right?" >> And you you really do have to because you just don't know what tomorrow holds.

>> Wow. This is true. Kade is in Dallas.

Hey, Kade. What's up?

>> Hey guys, how's it going? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Perfect. So, uh, we're in a pretty good situation, but my wife and I were having a discussion. I would call it a a disagreement, but differing on opinions.

And so, >> Sounds like a disagreement. >> Uh, we right.

I appreciate it. And so, uh, we have,

um, about five rental properties. Not about five rental, we have five rental properties and our main property as well as a good amount. I say a good amount, right? That's subjective, but about 75K in cash in our bank and about 150,000 in

stocks. >> And so we were we're all about paying

off debt, but right now we're in a pretty good position. Two houses paid off, three houses with mortgages, and then one house with a pretty big mortgage, which is our primary residence. >> And your household income is what?

>> Uh I make about 150. Um, wife makes

about 75, so 225.

>> Got it. Very good. Okay. And what's the balance on your home mortgage?

>> Uh, 350. >> Okay. Cool. And how old are you guys?

>> Uh, 40 and 35.

>> Cool. You done really well.

Congratulations. It's fun to have these discussions by because you got to this point. >> So, if you're asking what I would do, are you?

>> Well, I sell the stock and take the 75K.

That's two and a quarter. And I'd put that on that 350 by close of business today.

>> Okay. >> I'm assuming you have an emergency fund in addition to the 75, right?

>> Uh no. Uh the 75 is just cash in our P.

So we would But you know, let's just say we need 25 in there for the emergency fund. >> Okay. Throw Okay. Then put 200. That leaves 150. >> And then that brings up the question you were going to ask about whether we sell one of the rentals. Right.

>> Right.

>> And you have three then that have mortgages.

>> Correct. Those are 50, 100, and 150.

Again, these are just ballpark numbers.

>> Just small mortgages. Okay. Good. Good.

All right. And uh is there any of who wants to sell some of the houses to get the debt paid off?

>> That would be my wife. She bought into the let's go debtree saying, "Hey."

>> Yeah. Okay. So, here's the thing. The only question, the only thing we're arguing about is not when, not if we're going to be debtree, it's just when.

>> Yes. Basically, yeah. >> Yeah. Okay.

That that helps the argument. Okay. Because if if the argument is I'm going to stay in debt the rest of my life, we got a different discussion. But if it's like, okay, I got a small balances on these things.

I got this pile of money, so I can throw 200 at the house. Let's get the house knocked out, and then we'll whittle away on the mortgages on the rentals. and and you map that out and you say with a $225,000 income, it's going to take us four years to do all that.

Or if we sell two of them, we could do it real fast. That's the argument, right? So we're arguing about two years or four years or whatever these numbers are. We're really not arguing about the concepts.

And so is it do I don't want to give up these houses. I would rather fight with it for four years. She's saying, "I want to be done today. If we gave up two of them, we could be done today." And that's about the numbers roughly. Um, and that's the only argument is whether we what are we going to do with the next four years? And either either answer is

in the wise column, so we're not going to we're not going to call it for you.

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You can't get through. There's not that many lines. So, if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, we got a to a tool for you to help you. Head on over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our

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get bad information. Instead, you could just go to ramseyolutions.com

and ask Ramsay and you'll get a Ramsey

answer to your question. If you want to know what we think, it's an easy way to do it and it's completely free. Ian is in Atlanta. Hi Ian, how are you?

>> Hey Dave, I'm doing good. Um, I appreciate all your help through the years. My wife and I, you've helped us out a lot getting our get our finances in order. So, appreciate all that.

>> Thank you.

>> Um, we found out before Christmas, my father-in-law was had fallen into some scams, thousands of dollars. He actually maxed out all his credit card and then he wound up mortgaging the house to pay off the credit card debt. Um, we think he may even now have gone so far as to get a reverse reverse mortgage on the house. Tomorrow he has to go to small claims court to deal with one last creditor, uh, about $2,500. The only

income he has, legal legitimate income, is his social security. So, we're not sure where to help him, where to step in and help him. At this point, um, he hasn't let us not help him, but he hasn't given us a lot of room to help him. But it's, you know, tomorrow he has to go to court and we're just not sure what to do, what what he can expect there and then what to do after that cuz like I said, he's just one last dead and all he has is is a house and social security.

We don't want him to wind up homeless.

>> He is 80.

>> Okay. >> How's he been clearing the other the other debts? You said this is the last one.

>> Yeah, the rest of them when he mortgaged the house, he paid everything off, but he missed this one card. He actually wrote him a letter and explained his situation to him and they still moved forward with it. Like I said, he got the letter in the mail that he has to be in court tomorrow for this for this last 25. >> Who's the creditor? Do you know?

>> I I do not know. >> Okay. All right. >> What are you thinking about? Are you thinking about >> Well, I'm sorry. What state is he in?

>> Georgia. >> Okay. All right. Go ahead. >> I was going to say, what are you thinking about paying the 2500 form? Is that what's on your mind?

>> No, we're not. We We We're not giving him any more money. We we my wife is,

you know, that's her dad. She's she's helping out some. I'm not entirely sure, you know, what, you know, she's doing, but I know she's not doing a lot because because we know how bad it was.

>> Um, we actually we actually wind up I took his cell phone. I was paying for his cell phone. He was supposed to pay for it. We actually went over the house, took it from him. >> So, you know, to try not to to keep him keep it from happening again. But yeah, we're just trying to find out what he can expect tomorrow from the court. Can they get that? All he has is social security. What can they get? What can they do? Well, to start with, what will happen tomorrow is uneventful.

>> You ever been to traffic court for a ticket, >> right? Yeah. >> Like the first time you go to traffic court, you're like, "Oo, I'm going to court." And then you go in there and it's kind of funny. It's kind of not much to it. It's uneventful, anticlimactic.

>> You know what I'm saying? >> They tell you what you already know. >> Yeah. That that's exactly what's going to happen to him tomorrow. Okay. So, these attorneys have entire cases, boxes

and boxes and boxes of people that they're suing tomorrow. They roll them all in on two wheelers. No one comes to

oppose them and they get judgment on all

of them in about 10 minutes.

>> Okay? >> They don't go through them one by one by one by one. The only one they will pull out is if someone actually shows up. So,

if he actually shows up, they'll pull it out and they'll talk about it, but they will do nothing because here's the deal.

The guy legally owes $2,500

and he has not paid the bill, >> right? >> He will lose the lawsuit, >> right? >> I got scammed is not a defense, >> right? >> Okay. So, he loses tomorrow and they

take a judgment lean tomorrow. Now, then

on to your question. What can they or will they do with a judgment lean? 98%

of the time on $2,500, they'll do nothing with it because it's too much trouble. It's not enough to screw with.

>> Okay. Okay. >> But they take the judgment lean if they're in a state where they can garnishy. They can clean out bank accounts and they can and they can garnish you wages. They cannot touch social security in any state.

>> Okay? they could take a lean on his house, but were they to do that in the state of Georgia and they would have to

go through they have to spend a,000 to $2,000 to do a foreclosure to collect $2,000 and they end up owning a house which by the way has a mortgage on it, >> right? >> And they get to keep that mortgage. The bank does. So, the chances that a bank takes on $100,000 or $50,000 or whatever

mortgage to try to collect $2,500 on a

credit card is zero. Never seen it happen in 40 years.

>> Okay? >> Not going to do it. So, they take a lean on the house so that if the house ever sold, they get paid and they will do that. >> Okay? >> In most states, as soon as the judgment is final, it's an automatic lean on property that you own.

>> I don't know for sure in Georgia if it is. It is in Tennessee. Okay? Okay. So, it's an as soon as the judgment's final tomorrow and they and they record it at the courthouse, his his title is now clouded. If he tries to borrow money on the house or try to sell the house, they have to get paid because they now have a lean on the house.

>> But they won't execute on the lean and force the sale of the house.

>> It's not practical. >> Not practical. >> Right. And if as long as his social security uh comes to an account that is standalone and doesn't have any other money in it, they can't take the money out of that account because it's social security money, >> right? >> But if he has if he if he's got $10,000 laying somewhere, which he doesn't based on the story you told me, but if he had $10,000, he probably would have paid this bill, right? But um >> yeah, >> but but but yeah, so basically he is

largely what we call judgment proof. There's not a lot they can do with the judgment, >> right? >> Cuz he's too stinking poor.

>> Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. And we we're trying to help him, but it's just Yeah. It's it's I mean, you've probably gotten these calls before, you know, it's frustrating. You hear about other people falling into these scams and then you know what kind of scam was almost a year? Uh, well, Dave, he um he was going

to marry Jennifer Aniston.

>> Oh, okay.

>> And he was, you know, getting the buying the Apple gift cards and sending $100,200 here and there and just >> Not bad work if you're 80 gift cards and >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> Romance scam, huh? Wow.

>> Yeah. And it was one of the big ones, too. So, yeah. I mean, you know, we've heard other people fell into it. We just never I thought, "How do you fall into that?" And then then it hit our you hit my father-in-law. So, >> yeah. I'm so sorry. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's It's heartbreaking. Um but it

sounds like the money is gone. It doesn't sound like it's recoverable >> from anything. And so my guess is that

tomorrow will probably end the drama on the 2500.

>> Okay. >> Until you all until until you all sell the house after he passes away.

>> Okay. Okay. Cuz he was talking about not even going. What would it do to go? He's right. He's right. >> Yeah. >> You're going to lose. >> You just walk in there and you're going to lose. There's no uh they can't they don't send you to driving school.

>> You know, it's not it's not that part of traffic court, but you're just you're going to lose because there's no defense. There's not a >> you know, there's no fraud or something like that committed. It's not identity theft. It's not he borrowed the money and he signed up for the debt. He didn't

pay it. He loses. It's very simple and

very cut and dried. And the and I promise you there'll be a thousand at least in the bo in the in these cardboard boxes sitting there and they'll all go bump with one drop of the hammer, right? One one smack of the gavl and it's over. And it's it's like a conveyor belt for lawsuits.

A a lawsuit factory and it's just it's

boring is what it is. But uh unless you're the one that's all freaked out because of it. Yeah. So anyway, I I

think he's okay. I think he's probably in good shape. I can't be 100% sure, but based on what you told me, I don't know of anything that any way they can get to him at this stage because everything's gone basically.

Rachel is in Baton Rouge. Hi, Rachel.

How are you? >> Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> My question is, is it smart to do a balance transfer that is offering a 0%

APR for 20 months to take care of a portion of a personal loan that my husband and I have? >> A personal loan to who?

>> Uh, it's with a SoFi loan that we have.

>> Oh, gross.

>> What How much is SoFi screwing you for?

>> We have 15,000 left. And what's the interest rate?

>> 12.31%.

>> Aren't they helpful? I know how they paid for that stadium now. Okay. 12%,

huh? On 15,000. And what's your household income?

>> Uh before taxes, uh 112,000.

>> Okay. So, how fast are you going to pay off the 15?

>> Well, we would like to pay it off within

a year and a half. >> That's awful. Is there something ahead of it? Is that why it would take so long?

Like, do you have other debts you're attacking first?

>> We have um we still have a thousand left to pay off on a furniture that we brought and then we also have a car loan. We have 18,000 left on that.

>> Okay. >> And then starting back in July, >> I was going to say the car shouldn't come before the 15,000.

>> Okay. Our payment is pretty high. Our payment is $679.

>> So, what we have learned is the fastest way to get out of debt and the most sure way to get out of debt when it comes to everything but the house is to list your debts smallest to largest. Pay minimum

payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one with a vengeance.

And I mean no eating out. I mean no

vacations. I mean nothing. scorched

earth on your lifestyle and you attack these debts. You make too much money to

be this freaking broke. And if I'm you, I'm going to pay all of this off in just

over a year. >> Mhm.

>> A year. >> Yes. But you have no life during that year. You understand me?

>> And right now you're right now you're trying to slow walk this and figure out some interest rate that gets you out of debt. There is not an interest rate to get you out of debt. What gets you out of debt is when you get so pissed off that you've been screwed over by SoFi and the car companies that you attack this stuff with a vengeance.

>> Are you guys doing anything outside of your normal jobs? Any side hustles?

Anything to bring in extra money?

>> No, we aren't. >> That's the key. I'm telling you, that's the key to knock this out because the longer the horizon on this, the the less likely are you are to complete it. If you're not attacking this with intensity, it's just going to be h I'm tired of doing this. Oh, we've done it long enough. This is we paid off the car. That's good enough. Right. You've got to be intense, which means the income that's going towards this debt has got to be as high as possible.

>> Yeah. And and the outgo is nothing.

>> Mhm. >> I mean, I'm not kidding. Do not see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as your extra job.

Because if you did that, if you committed, if if you and your husband both said, "Man, we're both going to do a side hustle. We're both going to bring in an extra $2 or $3,000 a month." Oh my goodness. >> So, Rachel, here's the deal. Okay, you can wander into debt, and we've helped more people get out of debt than any other organization in

America. We know what we're doing. You

can wander into debt, but you cannot wander out. You have to get angry about

this situation. So angry that you become sacrificial in your lifestyle because you want rid of this because it's standing between you and prosperity.

It's standing between you and becoming a millionaire. It's standing between you and changing your whole family tree. You

got screwed by SoFi, but you allowed it.

You signed up for it. You got screwed by the car company, but you allowed it. You signed up for it, so no more.

>> Okay, >> I'm not gonna I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be the the person that gets stepped on anymore, and I'm going to punch back so hard that it goes away.

When you do all of that, your question that you called in with becomes almost irrelevant. >> That's right. >> Because 12% on $7,000 is not your

problem. That's $7800.

Yeah, >> that's $800 for a year. $800 does not

fix a $30,000 problem. And you have a

car debt, a sofi debt, and a $1,000 debt. That's 30,000 bucks. And so you've

got, you know, and and you don't have an $800 problem. You have a $30,000

problem. $2500 a month for one year and you're done.

Now, where are you gonna get it? You're gonna get it from cutting lifestyle and increasing income and cutting lifestyle and increasing income and you're going to go so hard that your broke friends think you joined a cult. Now, I don't know if you're ready to do that or not.

I can't make that decision for you. If I could, I would because I know that the 10 year ver 10 year from now version of you would love you. >> You're going to you're going to the time is going to pass anyway and you're going to go, "Ah, if only I had listened to that that guy on the radio." >> Oh, and here's the other thing. The faster you get out of debt because of increased income and sacrificed lifestyle, the more likely you do get out of debt.

The more you drag it out and sloww walk it, >> the better the chance is that you just stay in debt forever and it just becomes normal. Well, everybody's gotten screwed by Sofi, so we might as well just be like everybody else. >> Yeah, that's >> and your brain starts to normalize the

stupidity that is America today.

>> Yep. And so, and then we've got Gen Z

saying, "I can't afford to buy a house because Congress screwed them with student loans.

Their their college screwed them with student loans.

Ford Motor Company, Lexus Motor Company, Toyota Motor Company put them in $1,200 car payments.

Sofi put them in 12% personal loans. And

we're here to help you with your money.

Oh, bull crap. You're here to help you with my money is what you're here to help. We know who you are. And you know

this is this is it. And you know when you look at Gen Z, they got record credit card debt, record car loans, record student loans, and then they say, "Well, I can't afford to buy a house." Well, no kidding. >> Yeah, >> cuz you got screwed by everybody in sight. And the only thing I would do if I was Gen Z is I'd get really angry about that and I would clean this mess up and take these villains out of my life and say never again. See, I was I

was 28 when I went broke and American Express called my house and asked my wife why she would stay with a man that wouldn't pay his bills. And she called me crying at the office and said I was thinking the same thing.

I got so mad that I'm 65 and I'm still

mad.

If American Express calls my house now, it's a wrong number

cuz I'm not going anywhere near anything that freaking company does ever. They

screw people for a living. I don't want anything to do with City Bank. What's in

your wallet? money, not your crap.

That's what's in my wallet.

See, you got to get that thing going like that. That's swagger. And and you

know, that's what happened with Jaden Sam. He said, "I'm not living like this.

I've had it." >> Yeah. >> I I'm done.

>> Yeah. You have to get to the point where you're you're instead of blaming people, you're just you're just mad about it and you're realizing, uh, the same people that screwed you aren't going to come save you. They they you know what I'm saying? Like, they're not going to help you. So, you have to help yourself. That's the only way. That's the only way you get out of this. It's the only way.

>> Yeah. When you get twisted up about it and you say, "I'm looking around out here and none of these people have my best interest at heart." >> Nope. >> And including the balance transfer 0% credit card. Well, you know, you know what that is?

>> I'm betting you not going to pay it off in 20 months. And you're not going to pay it off in 20 months if you don't change the way you're doing this. >> Yeah. And they're just going to send you more offers.

>> Well, no. They're going to jack you to 28%.

>> Yeah. >> At the end of 20 months, they're going to hand you a, you know, oh man, it's going to be bad. It's they hand you a new piece of paper and you're going to go, I think I got a little throw up in my mouth. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Cuz I I've signed I did it again.

I signed up with one of these companies.

Fifth Third's here to help. Give me a break. They're going to screw you.

When you walk into the finance company or the finance office of the car dealer,

it should have a sign over the top of it that says, "Enter here to get screwed."

Cuz that's what they're going to do. They're going to jack you up.

And it's to their benefit, not yours.

All you get out of it is toxic smell from the plastic that's new in the car.

And we call it new car smell.

It's the plastic that's new and it's toxicity. Let me help you with this.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Wshaw Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Cassandra is in New York

City. Hi Cassandra. How are you?

>> Hi Dave.

Ah, first thank you for your incredible gifts and the wisdom you share so generously. Your teachings truly made a difference in my life. Years ago, I joined Financial I joined Financial Peace University um and wiped out $80,000 in debt. And >> look at you ever since.

>> Proud of you. Way to go, kiddo.

>> Thank you. Thank you. But now I feel torn between responsibility and boundaries. I have family in a third world country and also family here who are struggling financially. I have been helping but now it feels expected and

they openly talk about what they want me

to pay for. I feel guilty saying no but

I also worry because they do need the money. How do I help in a healthy way

without being taken advantage of or feeling resentful and or becoming their

financial plan knowing that I'm supposed to give anyway? And lastly, I don't

appreciate that the privacy and the mystery of where the money is coming from is not there. And therefore, it doesn't feel like I'm giving money. It's more it feels more like not it doesn't feel like I'm giving money like a gift, but more like an obligation. Yeah, that's true.

>> That's what entitlement does. Yeah,

>> that's no fun. Okay, so what amounts of

money and how much is state side and how

much is in the developing country?

>> Okay, so my family in Haiti um in Haiti

>> they need everything.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> They need everything. We're talking about um >> Now, how much money have you been how much money have you been giving the people in Haiti? And who is it? Your mother or your dad or what?

>> So, my my parents live here in the States and I help them out as well. They have retired, but they do not have that

much money to retire off of. So, >> Okay, that's one. Who Who's in Haiti?

>> Um my brother and my sister and my siblings. So, my brother has five children and a wife and my sister has two children and her my nephew just had

a baby and um yeah, >> what kinds of money? >> My girlfriend has a sister up there.

>> In a year's time, how much money are you filtering to these folks >> in Haiti?

>> So, sometimes I send like um $600 to

one, $800 to the other. Um um I send

$400. So it depends because sometimes the kids needs to go to school. So we pay for I pay for them to go to school and then I pay for food. I also pay I

mean I'm also working on helping them to come to the states. So that involves um applications um to >> So if you had to put a rough estimate what's a dollar amount that you would say yearly I'm spending this amount of money on Haiti.

>> I would say about like $10,000,000.

Okay. And and how about your mom and dad?

Okay. So, my mother um she I've been

giving her about $400 to $600 a month,

but I've been scaling back off of that because I I found out that she hasn't been using it appropriately.

>> What's she using it on?

>> Um so, she she likes to buy things and she likes to show off to her friends that she has money. So, >> okay. So, can we can we make the statement about everyone involved?

A, we love them and we want good things for them. True.

>> Yes. >> Okay. B, no matter how much money we give them, it's not going to be enough.

>> Okay?

>> I mean, you could you could triple what you're giving them and nothing will change in their lives.

And that's why we are working now on getting them to the states.

>> Yeah. But and and that's so that's a good that's a good that's a sustainable investment. But just throwing $300 into

a family of eight in Haiti doesn't even

move the needle. You could throw 3,000

in that same hole and it would still go down the hole.

>> So you can't give them enough money to be God.

and >> you don't have that much money. And so

it's, you know, all you're doing is getting aggravated and helping a tiny tiny bit, but the amount of money you're giving into these situations is not changing their lives. It might feed them for a day. It might help them with their application to come to the states. Both of which are good things. But you know

you So I if I'm going to give any more money, I'm going to have two different things on it. Three things on it. One is you're going to be responsible with the money that you have, mother.

Two, um we're going to set a set amount

and that's all I'm going to do.

Three, I'll help with the applications.

Okay? But I'm not gonna 600 800 400 300

and them thinking, "Oh, she's just made of money and I'm feeling used

and guilty and they're still and they're

still want more. There's no end to it."

And so what we've got to do is put a boundary on it, put an amount on it, and say, "I'm going to give you X per month

and I'll help with the application."

That's it. Don't ask for any more.

>> So, should I do that? Like, so now would I would I now be on the hook? Because now I I >> It's up to you. If you don't want the the amount of money you can give per month can be zero, but you need to set an amount >> and that's for your budgeting purposes >> and you need and and for your sanity.

>> Yeah. >> Because this has this is like a dog chasing its tail. It's got no end to it.

That's what's driving you crazy. >> Do I It is. But the But it's also

expected of me. >> I don't care what's expected.

>> All right. You get to set the expectations. >> You get to decide what's expected. I'm not expected of anything. Bull crap.

>> You get You can sit down with me. >> Let me help you with this. You get nothing. I decide. I changed my mind. I'm not giving you any more money. You can do that. That's perfectly okay. And you have no reason to feel guilty for that at all. >> Okay. You know how much money I'm sending your family? None. You know how guilty I am about it? Not at all.

>> Yeah. >> I'm not I'm not obligated. >> They're hungry. >> I'm I'm not obligated. There's a lot of people hungry. I'm not They're I'm not Jesus. I can't feed all of them.

>> Okay. I feed some hungry people as an act of charity, but not as an act of obligation or guilt.

And we do feed hungry people through the Ramsay Family Foundation. We do that.

Okay. But we don't feed everybody on the planet. We don't have the money. And I feel zero guilt about that.

Okay. So, you have got you've got to put this in your head that you're not Jesus.

That job's taken. He already took the job.

>> You can only do a little bit. You do not

have the money to be God.

You cannot fix their lives.

And once you accept that, then you can explain that to them and say, "I can't

fix your whole life, but I can do it this much a month." And that's what I'm willing to do. And if you don't like it, I can send nothing. Also, that's a possibility if you're a jerk about it.

If you don't appreciate it and say thank you a lot, I can give you nothing.

That's not That's a total possibility.

But in the meantime, I'm willing to do this, but you're not the Messiah. The job's taken.

When I talk to people on the Ramsay show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money is going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal. But it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar Budget app. Every Dollars tell

your money where to go with a budget. It also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you call the show and it's right in your pocket.

So don't keep living normal. Go download

the Every Dollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you've fallen behind on your private student loans and have stopped making payments, it can feel like every door is closed. But Yi helps borrowers explore low fixed rate

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might not be in all states.

>> Okay. Today's question comes from Parker in Tennessee. Uh he says, "My wife and I move every few years for work and we rented homes each time. Our friends recently bought a house for 1.5 million, which I know is out of their price range. So I asked how they did it. They said they did an interestonly mortgage.

What are your thoughts on this type of loan? It sounds like it's renting a house, but you get the benefits of ownership. Would buying a house this way be a smart move for somebody that relocates frequently, or should we keep

renting? So, there's there's two concepts in there. There's the friends who have the $ 1.5 million house, which that feels like they're personal residents. They're not relocating as often as you do.

But you're saying, is this a good idea for for us since we relocate? Um, and I would say no. under any opaces of the the idea this is a horrible idea and it's the product is really just what it's what it is you're only paying interest. So if you're not paying any of the principal you're never paying down the mortgage.

So in essence you're just renting a house.

really what you're doing for a period of time. Um so I there there's no real advantage that I can think of for you to do this. Um, I mean, after the interest

period ends, your your payment's going to jump up anyway because you will start paying principal. Um, and you're just paying more interest over time. It's probably, I got to believe, it's one of the most expensive ways that you could buy a house. >> Yeah. And actually, on the short term, owning a home is more expensive than renting.

Heat and air goes out. >> Sure. >> Roof leaks.

Property taxes go up. >> Uhhuh. homeowners insurance goes up, all

of those things. You still got all those things. And if you move and try to sell the house and um you've reduced the

principle, not at all, you're likely going to take a loss. >> Oh, yeah. Upside down between how often you move. So, no, you need to stay away from it. So, um anything that sounds too

good to be true is. And your friends Parker are short-term thinkers.

>> Yeah, I wasn't very smart. >> They're not thinking long term.

There are people that think, "Thank God it's Friday. Oh god, it's Monday. I want something. I want it now. And I'm going to buy it even though I can't afford it." And by the way, the interesting thing is the difference in a payment on an interestonly loan and a 30-year, which we don't recommend.

>> Not much difference.

>> Not a lot of difference. No. Because think about your 30-year mortgage. The first payment you pay has almost no principal reduction. It's almost all interest. So, the payment's almost the same. It's not $50 difference or something like that. It's not a lot different, but the concept is way different because it describes someone who's thinking short-term and is immature rather than someone that's thinking long term. So >> the other part of this that I can't help but just call out is if you said, "Hey,

they bought this house for 1.5. I know it's out of their price range, so I asked how they did it." That that's the wrong question to ask. You don't look at someone. Ask how they did it so you don't do it. >> Right. Not so you go, "Oh, they're buying things they can't afford. Let me figure out how to do it, too." >> How I can buy things I can't afford.

Yeah. >> It's not a great method. >> Really bad. Yeah, that that was that was kind of laying there and I missed it on the page. Yeah. Mark's in Washington DC.

Hey Mark, what's up?

>> Hey, how you guys doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I've got uh a little bit of a funner question. I think you've helped me out in the past. About 8 years ago, we were drowning in consumer debt. Just bought a new house and since then we are 100% debtree. >> Good for you. >> House and everything. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> House and everything. We got really angry and really focused. Eight years later, knocked it out.

>> Well, I'm glad I was there eight years ago. That's awesome.

>> That's really cool. >> Me, too. Me, too. Um, and we're kind of we, you know, we we've

definitely let off the gas some. Uh, still focused, still intentional, but still frugal. >> And, uh, I'd like to, um, take my wife

to Italy. And I'm curious as to how much

would be a responsible amount to spend on about a 10day trip to Italy.

>> What's your household income?

>> Uh, it's about 200. And uh how what's your net worth now?

>> Uh right now it's probably just north of

a million. >> Wow. >> Okay, good for you. That's a nice eight-year turn.

>> Okay. And uh and how much money do you have saved for the Italy trip?

>> Um so we're going to go in the fall, so

we're going to work towards saving towards it. But I was I was thinking

like for the way that we like to travel, which again was very frugal. I was thinking for Italy probably between like 8 to 10.

>> I would double that.

>> I mean, you got to price it out and see.

>> I would double that.

>> Okay. >> You're a millionaire. You're responsible. You're careful. You make $200,000 a year. Of course, you're paying cash for this.

>> 100%. >> No question. and um $16,000 on a on a

worldass epic adventure is not out of

hand for you.

>> Okay. >> So, I'd put 15 on the budget and say we need to save up 15 between now and the fall and then go do it upright. That's 10 days. That's That's still not a lot of money. You're you're still not I mean you're you're not say staying in the four seasons doing that.

>> Have you have you priced anything out?

Have you looked at it?

>> We've looked at flights. Um I've looked at a couple like Airbnbs and things like that that some people have sent me.

>> Um places that like would kind of fit our style. >> Okay. >> And uh you know they they I was surprised because they're like, you know, it's it's kind of like going on a trip in the US. Like it's not that bad going over there. And I was kind of surprised by that. So >> Okay. >> Um I' I've heard you've been over there a couple times. Are there any things over there that like we should definitely see in your opinion?

>> What part of Italy are you going to?

>> My wife wants to go uh Sicily to

Florence, which I told her, hey, I just looked at the map and those are on two options. >> Yeah, that's right. Listen, I love Florence in that area. Florence, Pisa,

uh, and anything in that area, I think you're going to you can't go wrong. Great food, too. >> Yeah, Tuscany is amazing. Yeah, I mean, the food wine scene in Tuscan is off the chain. Of course, you got Florence has got the um statue of David.

>> Um it's got uh and and you know, an hour and a half away is is the leaning tower.

And so that's all touchable right there.

That's all doable. Actually, you can get down to Rome. Rome's full of tourist everything. >> Yeah. >> From the from the coliseum to the Vatican to whatever. Um and

>> uh and uh tourist hack. Uh if you're

going to spend a little money, if you're going to Rome, if you're going to go into the Vatican and you're going to go into the Systeine Chapel and so forth, you're going to see the museum, hire a private guide, and you don't stand in line for uh uh 2 and 1/2 days to get in.

It's it's it's a mile and a half long and you walk past every bit of it with a private guide and straight in like you're a snotty rich person and just go do it for sure.

>> And uh it's definitely the way to go.

And you know that's just a couple things. But I mean, yeah, Rome's full of uh things you've read about your whole life and thought about your whole life.

And so it's it's amazing. You stay there the whole time probably. It just depends on what you want to do. I mean, and and what it is you're after. uh what what type of experiences you're trying to uh curate in the process. But yeah, you can you can drop 15K pretty quick over there and and still be called frugal.

>> Absolutely. Especially in 10 days.

>> Yeah. And you did it, Mark. You lived

like no one else for eight years.

And now you're still young and you can

live and give like no one else. And so,

yeah, enjoy this. plan it out, stay

within the plan, and that helps you enjoy it because you're not stressed out about busting the budget or something.

>> You're But you're not being quote unquote irresponsible. Not even close.

Well done, sir.

Listen up, folks. If you've got a complicated tax situation and you're putting off filing your return, it's time to talk with a Ramsay trusted tax pro. Not next week, not April 15th, right freaking now. Ramsay trusted tax pros know the tax code front to back so they can do the heavy lifting to help you file on time and explain things to

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. Well, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand and factual.

Median home prices went up a little last month to 403,000.

We typically do see that in the spring season because it gets a little busier.

Mortgage rates also dipped all the way to 5.43, down from 6.1 that we saw last February,

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or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or on YouTube. Maria is in Houston. Hi, Maria.

How are you?

>> Hi.

Um, thanks so much for taking your call.

Um, I'm calling about my marriage. Uh, my husband and I are not aligned financially.

Um, and unfortunately I knew this before getting married. Um, this could be 10 years we've been married and um, I was a

single mom. Uh, when we met, my daughter

was 12. He helped raise her. Um, she was

19 when we got married. Um, but we keep our finances separate. Um he's a saver.

Uh in the past I've been a spender and I've worked really hard to uh get my act together and um he bought the house

cash. He bought the house when we were engaged, but he did not put my name on it. Um and um I'm an entrepreneur. When

I wasn't whether or not I was earning money, I was responsible for all of the expenses of the house because he bought the house cash.

And um I'm now in a place that I'm earning money, which feels good. And he's uh a lot of times just said, "Well, you now now that you sit at the adult table, >> oh, >> we can have adult conversations." >> Oh.

>> And um as long as I keep my eyes on God

and I focus on myself and I um I'm okay

with it. Um but I'm obviously not okay

with it.

every time I bring it up, it causes a big issue. And so I just pretend like

I'm okay with it. And I know my daughter

um thinks it's not good for me. And um I

don't know. I don't know what to do.

>> What made me call you today is that um

we uh we have a fourbedroom house. We

have a roommate. Uh because look, the roommate covers it property taxes. Um

>> you you have a roommate living in your home that's paid for?

>> Um yes, we do. >> Why? >> Yeah, because um he that covers the

property taxes. >> Well, I mean, why can't you guys cover the property taxes? Y'all aren't broke.

>> Yeah, exactly. And um so um when he

Let's stop a minute. What does your husband make a year?

My husband retired at 43.

Um, and he now has um a part-time gig that

he does just so he has play money.

>> Um, >> so what does he what does he plan on living on if he retired at 43? Does he have a huge savings?

>> He does. >> What how much does he have in his investments? >> I don't know because have access

I think 5 million.

>> Okay. Okay. And and what do you make a year? >> Um um conservatively 100.

>> Okay. >> Is it commission based?

>> Okay. Well, so here's the thing. We get

in relationships um what we tolerate.

For 10 years, you've tolerated being treated this way.

and you're running out of

uh toleration.

You're running out of steam. You're not willing to tolerate it anymore. And that's why you called us. Um and so I do

not know in a radio call or a podcast call how to navigate through 10 years of

uh you being treated like you're not an adult. >> Mhm. and um and through all the pain

that I hear in your voice, I don't think we can navigate through all of that um

in in one phone call. But I I I will

tell you, just listening to you, I think your marriage is probably going to end if you guys don't do something to heal it

because I don't think you're going to stay much longer. >> Yeah. >> If you don't do something to heal it. I don't know that you've said that out loud to yourself. And I'm not suggesting that. I'm just observing that um talking

to a lady who's completely done.

>> Yeah. If you've had to convince yourself that the only way to survive in there is to basically keep your mouth shut and

>> have a roommate. >> Yeah. >> That's just strange. We have $5 million,

but we're so cheap. We have a roommate to pay our property taxes. No, thank you. Not how I want to live. So,

what would I do if I were in your shoes, Maria? I think I would sit down. I would get on the phone and call your pastor, call your church, and get a recommendation of a good faith-based marriage counselor that can sit down with you and coach you and uh coach him.

And then I would sit down with your husband and say, "I've made an appointment with a marriage counselor on Tuesday. Uh because I want to try to save our marriage because it's almost over and I want to try to save it. Do you want to come?" >> Have you ever tried that?

>> We have um we've gotten to that point and he um we started we'll do a couple

sessions and then we things get better.

He's even put my name on some of um cuz

our finances aren't blended. He's even put my name on on some of the accounts.

>> Um but my name is still not on the house

and I I I

Yeah. So we've done it like three or four times and one time I I actually um

>> Well, I mean are you do you want to try again or are you done?

>> Yes. I don't I no I I >> I don't want to try again unless I think it's going to work.

>> And so I'm going to demand that this time it works.

>> Have you sat with a counselor? Just you.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. I think you guys have got that to do. I don't think we can help you on this show, hun. >> We're not we're not we're not qualified.

Number one, we're just your friend and we're sitting here with you hurting and I'm sorry you're hurting. I can't do

anything about any of that. And I don't have a magic phrase to say that hasn't worked in three rounds of marriage counseling. Uh but I will tell you doing what I do and knowing that the number one cause of divorce is money problems and money fights over money. Um I will

tell you that I I'm honestly surprised you've made it as far as you have.

>> Yeah. >> Um statistically. I'm glad you're still

married. Um, and and I want you to he your marriage to heal. Uh, but yeah, you you guys are you're going to have to

uh sit down and you guys are going to have to lay out some milestones, some things that we agree that these things are going to happen and these things are

never going to happen again. And we've got our little list of five things that we always do and five things that we never do. And you know that will include

full transparency and understanding where the money is and I have a vote on the money and you never talk to me like I'm not an adult again and tell me I get to sit at the big girl table. That's so

freaking demeaning. It's unbelievable.

But you know that you know but but you've put up with it for 10 years. So some of this is on you. So you've got to call this.

And um I I recommend you try another

round. Uh but I would put very clear

expectations in that round of counseling that these things have to occur or I'm not staying.

And if you do stay after that, now it's your fault.

>> I think that's what she's struggling with. >> Yeah. You keep staying and nothing changes and now it's your fault. So if

you want to make one more pass at it, you can. And I recommend you try it, but

with some very clear objectives. I think we kind of went in sideways and said, "We this just needs to get better as some kind of general statement instead of saying here's specific things that must change and here's specific things that can never happen anymore.

And those are my conditions.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseyolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Scripture of the day is Philippians 4:8.

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things.

Charles Schultz says, "Life is like a 10-speed bike. Most of us have gears we never use." >> Interesting.

>> This is true. Faith is in Dayton, Ohio.

Hi, Faith. How are you?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um I'm a single mom. Um, I'm 30

years old and I kind of just started, you know, kind of paying attention to my finances. So, I'm a little late to the game, but um, I'm on baby step number

two and I'm trying to pay off my debt, but at the same time, I want to make sure that I'm saving um, for my son, for

his future. So, in my budget, I have been putting a little bit aside, but not much. I've just been putting it into a savings account. And I've heard you talk about like 529 accounts and different ways to save. I just didn't know if that kind of account is useful for someone who can't put like that much into it every month. >> Probably not. But I wouldn't be putting anything aside for your son right now.

You are investing for your son by getting yourself squared away because as

you get yourself squared away and out of debt and build wealth, it's going to benefit him.

>> Yeah. I'm just I'm the my biggest where I feel I'm feeling so much anxiety because I feel like my student loans are so big. Like >> how many how much do you owe on your student loans? >> I owe um 54,000.

>> Yeah. Cool. What do you make a year?

>> I make 58,000. >> Doing what?

>> Um I work for a construction. I'm an admin like kind of assistant >> here. Um but I just got promoted to salary so I'm making a little bit more.

>> And you're 30 years old and your baby's how old?

He's four years old. >> Cool. Cool. And where's daddy?

>> Um he's I mean um he's still he's in town and stuff and he does give me some child support um every month. It's like

400. Um but I do use a lot of that to like pay for child care and and that kind of thing. >> That's what it's for. Sure.

>> And you and you have 50 58,000 student

loans. What other debts do you have?

Um, I have uh 15,000 left on my car.

>> Uhhuh. >> And then I just I have a personal loan uh for 5,000 that I used to pay for a little bit for a lawyer and to like clear off a couple credit cards that I had when we were together.

>> Mhm. Have you cut up all the credit cards? >> Yeah. So, the credit cards are gone and I've been door dashing um every other weekend when I don't have my son and I've been putting everything I make onto that onto that personal loan right now.

>> Great. >> Good. Very good. You're doing the right thing. >> And anything else you can find in that budget, >> you throw it on that too and get it cleared off. >> Then you get the car cleared off and then we talk uh go after the student loans. So, um, you're right with Door

Dash and a four-year-old and 30 years old and making 58, uh, with what you

owe, it's going to be a little while. You're going to take a while, but it's not going to take 10 years.

>> It's just not going to happen in two years, >> right? >> But you will be amazed when you knock off the car and the personal loan how

much that frees up your budget to attack this student loan. And then you've probably got another two or three years at that point.

>> Yeah. When you knock out the car, that's going to give you a new lease on life.

You're going to feel so good >> having that money back in your pocket every time you get in that car. And that's going to almost act like a reset for you mentally when you start attacking the student loans. >> But let let's reset for a second on your

four-year-old son. Okay?

>> Let me tell you about him.

He has a mom who is a warrior princess who knows how to fight and scrape and

cause things to happen.

That's going to help him more than $10 a month being stuck in a savings account.

He's watching you live your life well.

And then as he watches you scrap and claw to get out of debt, he's going to learn to stay out of debt when he's older because he'll remember what we went through. My mom was a single mom and it was tough.

And that doesn't kill the kid. It makes him awesome.

So he is really blessed. I don't know why it makes me feel like it makes me feel so guilty that I'm not like, you know, able to save like more for him than he's >> Well, the best thing you can do for him is not be a problem later.

>> Yeah. >> Truly, >> by cleaning this up and becoming a millionaire.

And you actually can do that, believe it or not. Let's pretend that it's five

hard years from today. and uh pull up

the calculator. And so 35 to65 and we

save 15% of $65,000.

Okay, five hard years from today, you're

debtree and you have an emergency fund, okay?

Student loans and everything. And that's going to be hard. That's like really watching every penny, door dashing, everything you can do. Hard five years.

But you're you're tough. You can do this. >> Five years. >> Yeah. And then at fi at 35 years old, you start investing 15% of your income because you have no payments. >> Mhm. How much? 15%.

>> 15% of 60,000 would be uh $9,000 a year.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> And so that's going to uh

500 plus two 750 a month.

>> Okay. >> Okay. and uh do that from 35 to 65 in a

mutual fund. Let's we're going to put it in our calculator right now to see how rich you're going to be. Okay, Faith,

that's $2.3 million

>> when you're 65.

So, if you invest 15% of your income and

you make $60,000 a year and you never get a raise for 30 years, >> highly unlikely >> from age 35 to age 65 and you're able to

invest that because you cleared off this

debt in the coming 5 years and you spent

five more years of hell. The kid is nine

years old >> when you are debtree and begin investing.

All right? And and then when you are at

his wedding, you will be a millionaire.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. >> That's where you're headed. That's where you're headed. And that's the best gift you can give him.

>> He's not going to be h he's, you know, harmed if you don't put a dime in savings for him today. Because by taking

care of you, you're setting yourself up

to be able to help him. in any way you want to later. >> And and by the way, you know, we've been teaching this, I know Dave, you've been teaching this long enough that we have people who come and their parents did

FPU and their parents walked the baby

steps and now the children are standing on stage and the children are part of that legacy. And they never come back and say, "Oh, it was so hard because my parents walked the baby steps and they never saved anything for me when I was four." They don't say that. They say, "I learned how to handle money from a young age. I never got into debt. And then when I married my spouse, we immediately attacked our house and we became millionaire." You know, >> my mom taught me how to do hard work.

My mom taught me what resilience looks like because she lived it. These are the

gifts you're giving him. He's going to have a great life because of you. And so

quit putting money in savings for him

out of some kind of false guilt that you're not taking care of him. My point is you're taking care of him beautifully. But you got to follow through on all this. It's not going to magically happen.

There's no genie in a bottle that does it. It's not going to get easy. It's not going to be where there's no trouble. The transmission's still going to go out and the tire's still going to be low.

The uh you know, somebody's still going to steal something from you. Stuff's going to happen through your life. You can count on all that still occurring. But the point is, you got to have a target and a plan.

will have taken care of him better by taking care of you than by putting $10 a month aside out of some kind of misdirected guilt.

>> Like you've done something wrong that you should be ashamed of. You're a single mom with a four-year-old and you're 30. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Now go get you some, girl.

This is your time. It's your time. go

make this happen and we're going to set you up with everything. All right? We're going to put you into Financial Peace University. We're going to put you into our uh Every Dollar app and we're going to pay for all of it and give it to you as a gift cuz we think you're a hero.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 59. Financial Momentum Starts With a Shift in Perspective | May 14, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. George Campbell, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, [music] co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour here on the Ramsey Networks is my co-host today. The

phone number is 888255225. [music]

you jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Betty is in Washington,

DC. Hi, Betty. How are you?

>> I'm hanging in there. I can't believe I'm actually talking to you.

>> Well, I'm honored. How can you How can we help you today?

>> Uh, well, I'm I'm going to apologize up

front in case I cry because this has been a really stressful situation. Um, but long story short, my husband and I have a house that we cannot afford. Um, our mortgage payment is over $6,000 a month and it's been listed for over two months now and the house is just not selling. Um, and we got we got a report

back from our Ramsey Trusted Real Estate agents last night. Um, that's not very good. And so we're looking at either having to drop the price again and try to find $30,000 while we're in baby step

two to be able to pay to get out of this house that we can't afford. Um,

and the other options that they gave us really were to potentially look at a short sale or a deed and loo or something like that. And those options aren't on the table because my husband will lose his job if we go that route and I I don't know what to do.

>> Okay. So, what what is your household income?

Um, my husband is currently working um

between 24 and 30 hours of overtime each week to be able to bring in $12,000 a month take-home.

>> Okay. All right. And your payment is 6,000. And how much debt have you got in baby step two?

>> Um, well, we we started out with a lot

more than this in July of last year, >> but we were able to get cruising through through December. Um, and now we just have $45,000 left on two personal loans.

>> So, how much how much have you paid off before that from when you started in June down to 45? What did it start at?

>> Uh, we I I think the balance was a little over 70,000.

>> Okay. So, how did you get that 30,000

given that this house payment so how did you manage to pull that off?

>> That's impressive.

My husband did receive um a bonus at the end of last year and we used all of that. Um and I I was working at the time

when we first got it got started with our debt snowball. Um but over the course of last year um I lost all three

of my part-time jobs and I have not been

able to find another one. Um and we have

a seven-month-old so I was pregnant during all of that chaos as well. on.

Um, no, no one will hire will hire me

apparently. >> Yeah. Um, what what is your career field?

>> Um, I am primarily a stay-at-home mom. I

homeschool. So, I >> No, I mean the jobs that the jobs that you've been getting, what were you doing? I mean, what is your if you could go get a dream job right now making $6,000 a month, what would it be?

>> I worked remotely um doing data entry for the past 10 years.

Making making what what were you making?

>> Um I was making about $2,000 a month.

>> Okay. All right. Good. All right.

[sighs] Okay. Um

well um and and the house you you owe so

much on it. That's what the 30,000 is is that you're afraid you'll have to sell it for less than or you'll net less than you owe. Right. >> Correct, sir. >> Okay. All right. What did the report say? You said you got a bad report from the real estate pro.

Um yeah, just that if we didn't lower

the price, they thought that we had less than a 10% success, like likely success rate of being able to sell it.

>> Um we've been in the house for just under two years. We originally purchased it. Um it was supposed to be with my parents. We were supposed to split it and um at as soon as we closed, before

the first mortgage payment came, my dad went back on his word and said he had never agreed to split it 50% with us. um which was what we were all under the impression would happen. And then since >> is he is he on the mortgage?

>> No, he is not. >> And not [clears throat] on the ownership either. Okay. >> No. >> Okay. All right. Um well, here's the

thing. The great news is is that with bonuses and finding extra work, both of

which could be easily in your future, you've been able to hang on and reduce debt by $30,000. That's fairly impressive, really. And so if we can add the bonuses and the income from you, and

I think you can, back to the equation, even if you stop your debt snowball temporarily and start piling up cash to write a check and get out of this house, um you you can make that that's going to that's going to work. You're going to be able to do that. That you're not trapped. You're just in a really sucky temporary situation.

But you know, 10 years from now, this will be in the rearview mirror and you'll be going, "Oh, that's a dumb thing I did. My dad lied and wouldn't have done it without that. And dad gum, what a horrible mess we got in just about the time the baby baby was born.

By the time Rachel was that age, by the way, I filed bankruptcy. So there you go. I mean, and and I'm okay now, you know. So you're going to be okay is my point. U but right now the snapshot that we take, it's got tears in it and that's valid. Okay. The snapshot is this. I

can't breathe. But the film strip says there's an end to the movie. That's not the end of the world. The rainbow comes out. So, um, yeah. So, so I I would say

stop your debt snowball temporarily and

just start piling up cash because as soon as you start seeing options, your um anxiety level is going to go down.

Um, and yeah, he picks up all the hours he can pick up and you pick up all the hours you can pick up and yes, you'll find something. You just gone through a dry spot here and nobody's hiring people who have seven-month-olds. Not true.

You're in Washington DC. You'll find something. I mean, it's it's Is it easy?

No. The job market's kind of slow right now, but uh but you can I think you can do it. Um even if you don't get any

income coming in, you can make the payment >> and not go into foreclosure, short sale, or anything else uh for for a period of time until you get rid of it. And while pile up 30,000 bucks and get ready to do what the real estate agent said, let's write a check and get rid of this hell hole. It's driving us nuts, right? Have

you guys actually done a budget to see where this other $6,000 is going in your take-home pay? Because you might find some a,000 or 2,000 bucks right there.

>> Yeah. Um we we have we've actually been pretty locked in since July. Um which

I'm thankful for, but um generally

speaking with the work that we had to do to prepare the house for sale and everything, I think we're able to put aside about 1,000 to,200 um a month. right now to go >> and and then you add your income that you're going to get and you add his bonus >> and you start selling stuff because the house is going to get sold anyways. Might as well clear some rooms out, make some money off Facebook Marketplace >> and all that can help if you get creative. >> Yeah.

And again, I take the pressure off yourself to get rid of the $45,000 unless it's a $45,000 car. If it is, sell it and be done with it.

you're you know but I I think that the the proper perspective on this will give

you a lot of um give you some of your fight back um and get the tears back

push the tears back from the edge a little bit and go oh yeah we can do this. This is actually doable. I think you can. [music] Um but I think it's going to be I think the next 12 months are not going to be fun. Um and you get

rid of the house. you got $30,000 and then you go knock out the 45 and you know you learn a whole bunch of lessons in this short period of time about the time the baby was born and you'll look back on that 20 years later and baby's 27 and you'll go man when you were born our life sucked >> and the baby will go I don't remember that. >> Yeah, I don't remember that. >> What's for dinner? >> I don't remember that.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And Oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[music]

>> [music]

[music] >> Nate's in Houston. Hi Nate. How are you

>> doing? Great.

>> Good. How can we help?

>> I have a question about boundaries with

parents and money. So, um,

got to have a family, you know, member or my mom and dad. they want to gift us a vehicle. Um, they had a track or at least my dad's had a track record of just using parent guilt throughout my life and

it's really created just some tension in our marriage. Um, my dad likes to have

control over our life when he doesn't have any really means to it. You know, we have I'm a bread winner and my wife

stays home, takes care of the kids.

We're active in a church. we're active um and we're states away, so it's really nice to just have that distance,

>> but we are trying to respectfully

decline even though they're very pushy on trying to give us this vehicle >> when in fact um you know, they want us

to be, you know, going Yeah. So, just

trying to find a way to respectfully do that. So, it sounds like you over a period of time have established some boundaries because of this pattern

>> and now they're like, "Oh, I think I'm going to try it again."

>> Pretty much. Yeah. And >> I mean, there's not any current They don't currently have any hooks in you, do they?

>> No. Okay. >> My brother, though. >> Well, not you, but I'm talking about you. Okay. >> Yes. No. No hooks.

>> Yeah. And so they're like, "Okay, well, we ain't getting any hooks in him, so let's set one." Right.

>> Mhm. Yeah. >> So, I mean, just don't be a bass.

>> Don't be a bass. Yeah. >> Don't bite. Right. Don't bite on the hook, man. >> It's just I mean, so >> Yeah. When you say they keep pushing, are they like calling you saying, "Hey, we really want to get you this car. What do we got to do?" >> It I mean Yeah. I mean, they're they're it's like texting. It's, you know, and then you get on the phone and it's

>> Can you just say talk about this?

>> Here's the thing. When someone's doing stuff like this, the fewer words and the

shorter the conversation you have, the better for everyone, them and you.

>> Because the longer you stay in a conversation, the more likely you are to revisit all the past sins. And that doesn't do anyone any good because they're not going to change.

Yes. >> And so, you know, no is a complete

sentence and keep your sentence pretty close to that. >> Hey, Dad. Love you, man. Thank you for the offer. Not going to be able to do that this time. We've got other plans.

Thanks. That's it.

>> And we we I mean, we love the offer. We

have a beater car. We would >> No, no, no, no, no, no. You don't love the offer. You You spent the whole first half of the call telling me you didn't love the offer.

You would like a new car, but the but the cost is too high on this one. >> Yes.

So, >> you know, you know what's inside that Trojan horse. And so, [laughter] you just got to keep it at bay. >> Yeah. >> Don't let the Trojan horse in.

>> So, even though you do need a car, then you just go, "Hey, I'm, you know, we're we got other plans and, you know, uh, we

appreciate it. Thank you. Not going to work right now. >> And I don't have to go into a long explanation.

>> And the more you feel tempted to explain

yourself, the more you're going to cause issues that are not helpful.

>> Mhm.

Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, this is it's definitely helpful know the whole sentence. Um Yeah, and we're driving a beater. We're on we went through Y's course at our church and it's been very helpful. Yeah, I'm I'm working a plan.

I've got a plan out. I'm going to get me a car and and I know you noticed our old car, but hey, thank you. I appreciate your offer. That's very kind of you. But we're we've got it figured out and you guys give find somebody that needs that car over there on that end of the world that's find a single mom and help her out with it. Dad, thank you. Thanks for the offer, though.

>> End. Well, what about what about No, Dad. Dad, I just told you we're not we're not going to do it. Okay. And it's just, you know, we don't have to be mean, but just real low volume, slow

sentences and short, concise conversations.

And all of that's very helpful to bring this to a close. And it may it may take two or three times because this guy, these people are not used to hearing no.

>> Yeah. >> No one tells them no.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. And so, but I'm telling you, you're going to feel so much better when you get off that text or off that phone and your wife is going to look at you with a beautiful smile and go, "I married a man. Look at that.

>> Look at the backbone on that guy.

[laughter] >> It really is. I mean, that's what's going to happen." So, and if you continue to struggle with it, I always recommend Dr. Henry Cloud's book, Boundaries. I've sold I think he's sold 20 million, and I told him the other day, I think I sold two million of them.

So, uh, for him cuz I just love that book. I love him. He's a good friend, but also they love the book. And so, uh, because it's most every family struggles with some kind of boundary violating

person at some time. Sometimes they grow

out of it or sometimes they finally get the message or whatever. But you just have to go. And there's a universal rule. People who violate boundaries don't like you setting them. M that's

when they throw the fists up and go it's time for >> always 100% of the time expect push back

cuz their goal is to get through the fence, knock the fence down, act like the fence is not there and then you put the fence up and and it pisses them off.

Wait, there's a fence. I don't like fences. And so 100% of people who don't

like boundaries don't like you setting boundaries. So when you do and and and you you know, you just go, "Yeah, but look, there's a fence." >> I just had Jefferson Fischer on my show this this morning and he was talking about this of if you start to sort of ramble and and talk more and more and more, it just gives them more ammo. It gives them more leverage. And so he said, >> puts oxygen in the fire. Yeah. He gives the same advice. >> Firm short sentences.

>> He's smarter about that stuff than I am.

So he's very taxful. >> I might have actually stolen it from him. He's a lot nicer than I am.

>> That's true. >> For sure. He's a general Mr. Rogers compared to me. But yeah, >> but I'm just like, "No, piss off." You [laughter] know, >> that works, too, though. In Dave's defense, that is a strategy that can work. >> It does work. [laughter] It's just a little more brutal.

All right. Sam's in Bend, Oregon. Hey, Sam. What's up, man?

>> Hey, guys. I'm a big fan. I've been working your guys' plan for several years. I absolutely follow everyone everywhere I can. >> Well, thank you. Awesome.

I'm uh I'm going to try and keep it short and sweet and not get too emotional. Um I'm at the tail end of a divorce >> where I'll be able to um have access to

funds and properly pay for debts and everything. And I'm just trying to figure out what's the best way to go about that with um some of the lump sums that I'm going to be receiving uh when the divorce is finalized. Wow.

>> How long are you married?

Um, last Friday was our anniversary and

it was uh we're still legally married but um 16 years.

>> I'm sorry. How many kids you got?

>> Three boys. >> How old are they?

>> Uh 15, 10, and eight.

>> Okay. All right. Well, rule number one,

take care of them and your broken heart.

>> Oh, we are. We are. >> That's rule number one. That's the most important thing in this. and and then and then so pretty soon you'll be able to laugh about this. I talked to a lady the other day that got divorced. She said, "You know, I got out of debt. I divorced him." [laughter]

So there's good there's good that can come of all this. This much manure, you can grow something, right? So Oh, I'm so sorry. What a horrible thing to go through. All right. And so I I'm still going to take the I'm going to take make sure the household is taken care of.

>> Food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. And then lump sums, if

they're in uh retirement accounts and need to stay in retirement accounts, I'm just going to do rollovers. Uh and other lump sums, we're going to walk the baby steps. You got debt you're going to get out of this?

>> Well, so I was that was my kind of on

the fence part with the retirement is I'm still young. I'm 38, so I have time.

I have a full-time job. >> I would not cash out the retirement. No, I would not pay the penalties. You'll pay penalties on it.

[music] And and I wouldn't do that. So, same as same as if you weren't getting a divorce. >> So, if any liquid cash, just apply that to your next smallest debt, make minimum payments on the rest, and just debt snowball it.

[music]

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[music]

Well, we wish every call could get through on this show, but I'm afraid right now the lines are jammed and um as soon as one of those people are gone, there'll be four more. And um we hope you can get through. The phone number if you want to get in the lottery is 888255225.

But if you can't, I've got something that might actually even be better. It's called Ask Ramsay. It's our free AI tool

that's built and trained only on Ramsey

Answers. So, you'll get an answer the same way we would answer it right here on the show. Uh, you can ask your question today for free at ramseyolutions.com.

Click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. And in case you didn't know, and I didn't because I'm a boomer, how AI works.

Yeah, I did know that AI is artificial.

It's not real. That's a good start.

Artificial intelligence. So it doesn't manifest its own intelligence. It only can speak from the database that has been fed to it.

And so that's the problem for instance with uh Google using AI to answer your questions because they're so stupid that they're using Reddit as part of their database to answer the question. And Reddit, if you look it up on in the Greek means not true. So um people's

opinion, it's like the Tik Tok in written form, you know, it's stupid stuff. But that's being entered in. So we don't have any stupid stuff in our Ask Ramsey AI because the only thing we put in there was three years of this show answer all the Ramsey personalities answering your questions and all the books we've written and all the articles that we've written. And so they're all our opinion.

How to work our system, how to work the baby steps. That's the only data that's in there. So that's the only possible answer that's going to come out.

I am. It's it's about at George level of snark. Not quite at that level.

>> It's not yelling at you quite yet.

>> It's just snarky. It's kind of funny.

Snarky like George, not me snarky like me yet. >> It is conversational though and you can have a conversation with it. So there's a back and forth which is great and you can enter your own information. It'll get >> I'm really I'm really proud of our tech team. I mean it's it's stinking good.

>> Feedback's been amazing. >> 100% free. Ask Ramsey at Ramseyolutions.com. You can get the answer as if you called in on the show.

Ash is with us in New York City. Hi Ash.

How are you?

>> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Awesome. So, um I'm 26 and I make about

$100,000 a year. Uhund $100,000 a year

in my salary. And I had an education

loan worth $65,000.

My mom originally promised that she would pay for my education. So, I went through school expecting that support.

But now I'm left with the student debt and she hasn't followed through yet. Uh I'm I'm sort of struggling with how to handle both the financial side and the emotional side of it. I want to move forward responsibly, but I also feel hurt and honestly misled. So, what would

you do in my situation? Do you have any advice for me? M

well I mean if you sat [snorts] down with her over a cup of coffee and said um I feel hurt and misled. What would she say?

>> She gets really emotional and then she says oh I did so much for you and you

know this small thing is bothering you.

You make so much money. Uh I don't think a $1,000 installment should hurt you that much. And it's we just usually end

up getting in an argument and then I >> Okay, so this is this is settled then.

This is settled. She's not going to pay it and she doesn't care if it hurts your feelings.

>> That's the fact.

>> No, that that's the fact.

>> Mhm. >> Those are facts. Those are data points.

She doesn't care if it hurts your

feelings. She's not going to pay it. Now

then you've got to decide what you're going to do. Okay? I'm not going to give

her access to my feelings anymore.

So I'm not going to talk about it with her ever again.

She's not going to pay it. You are.

>> Okay. >> Now the next step's easy. [laughter] Let's attack this debt with our great $100,000 income. How fast could you pay it off on your own?

>> Well, so I've got about $20,000 in savings. I've got $20,000 invested.

>> Good. >> Um I live in New York. So I mean my

monthly expenditure is about $4,000.

>> Yeah. Great. >> Um >> so you pay off the 40 and you got 60 to go and you just lean in and knock it out. And you know that your mom is your

mom. So, we can't be too mad at her, but we can be mad enough at her to go she's not reliable. And if she promises me something ever again, I'm going to laugh and wink and not believe it

because she doesn't care if it hurts

your feelings.

>> Right. And then I had this conversation that if if she wanted me to pay it off and she said, "Just send me just pay it off for for this year. me $10,000 and

then you won't have to worry about it from like Jan 2027. So now I

>> she's not going to pay it out.

>> You're wishing for something that's not going to happen. Okay? Dogs can't climb

trees.

She's a dog. She ain't going to climb a tree, dude.

Squirrels climb trees. Okay? She can't climb a tree. She's not going to do it.

and and every every answer she gives you is telling you she's not going to do it and that it's on you. And so the pastor you just go, you know, I I I I hate that

my that I have to say this about my mother, but she's an unreliable person

and is not concerned about the fact that

she lied to me. And that just breaks my

heart and I have a bill to pay now. And you go pay it as fast as you can, Ash.

and the sooner you get it paid off a and then please don't ever believe anything else she says. So any plan she comes to

you with is false.

>> The plan should have a check attached to it for $65,000 if I'm going to believe her ever again. >> Yeah. >> And it can't bounce. So that's the only way you go, okay, we're going to rebuild trust here. >> Yeah. But she's not going to do it. I mean, there's no chance. She probably doesn't have it either, by the way. It was probably wishful thinking and it sounded like a nice thing to say that I'll cover your education when you know >> I believe in you Ash. I got your back.

Yeah. Um but yeah, I mean this happens a lot. We hear this way too often of

parents that don't want to follow through on the promise of what they were going to do with their kids' education costs. And um so it's yet one more

reason for those of you out there that are considering taking out a student loan based on the promise of a parent uh to pay it. Uh that would be a dumb idea.

Um it puts a strain on the relationship even if they do follow through and pay it. Chris is in Fort Collins, Colorado.

Hi Chris, how are you?

>> I'm fine, thank you. Um my question to

you is uh I lent my mom and dad $40,000

20 years ago. They put my name on their

house via a quick claim in 2012

and they and I haven't lived in their house for 40 years. Well, they both passed. They have a will that says to

pay me $75,000 off the top and split the

rest between myself and my three other siblings. What kind of a tax mess am I in?

Are you the only one on the deed or were they on the deed with you after they quit claimed you?

>> They were on the deed with me after they quit claimed.

[sighs] >> Okay. So,

you're you're going to need professional tax advice, but I'll take a stab at it.

Okay. >> Okay. Here's what would happen if they had taken themselves off completely and it was just you.

When you sell the house, you're going to be taxed on every dollar above what they

paid for the house, >> which was nothing probably.

>> Yeah, it was you paid $13,000 and now

the house is worth $500,000.

>> Yeah. So you'd have t you'd have capital gains tax on $500,000 if the house was

in your name.

>> Mhm. >> So you may have tax on half of that

since the house is in their name and your name. You probably do. You probably have tax on that. And so [music] what I would do is require that that tax be paid before and my 75,000 be repaid

before we divvy up any proceeds.

And so you need to get tax advice, figure out what your tax bill is going to be, and I would add that and make the estate pay that because you got screwed.

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Recapping George. Um,

lesson for the day for some of you out there. Do not gift capital assets like stocks

or real estate to your children while

you're alive, except in rare circumstances. Here's

why. Okay, our last caller, Chris, mom

and dad quit claimed the the house over

to thinking they were doing her a favor.

They were trying to do something nice and they were ignorant of tax law. So here's how tax law works. If Chris if again in Chris's situation both names were on it so it doesn't there but if it was just her name. So if you gift if mom and dad gifted that property to her

basis for calculating capital gains is

their basis what they paid for it >> which was $13,000 in this case.

>> And the house sold for $513,000.

Then they got a half a million dollars that's taxable. >> That's a gain in the IRS's eyes.

>> Yeah. It's going to be a 15% gain or cap capital gains tax. Okay.

>> 75 grand. >> So it's a $75,000 error in that case.

The reason it's an error is if her name was not on the deed and they give it to

her by will after they die, her basis is

the market value of the house at the

time they die. So her basis would be

513,000 and she sells it within 6 months of death. It's presumed to have been market value and it's presumed that there is zero tax which just saved her 75 grand

by doing it that way. >> It's called a stepped up basis. So the

basis goes to market value if willed to

you. So, if grandpa has stock and he's

got $2 million worth of Exxon stock, but he paid $10 for it and he gives it to

his grandchild before dying, they have capital gains on

$2 million. >> He just passed the hot potato right over. >> If he waits until he dies 10 seconds after he's dead, that stock basis for

resale is the market value at the time,

$2 million. Junior could sell every bit of it and have zero tax. This is huge,

y'all. Quit doing crap like this without

seeking tax advice and knowing what you're doing. And it's like, well, I don't want the government to get You just made sure the government's going to get it, dumb butt. It's exactly what you did. And you can't just practice law and

tax law out of your ear and think you're

going to get anything except screwed up.

So just make a one phone call to a

simple to a to a Ramsey tax Ramsey trusted tax person and they'll tell you don't transfer this period. Now again,

there there might be a situation where you can use some of your gift tax

exemption or you can use some of your estate tax exemption and qualify it uh under unified estate tax credit and you have to fill out some forms and you can make the move a and not get into the taxes, but you still could set up a problem with income tax on the other

end. And so you really need to think this stuff through. It's not as simple as, well, I need to protect little Chris. She gave us that $40,000 and her brothers and sisters ain't right.

So, I'm going to put the house in her name, make sure it's okay. Boom. Without checking. That's exactly what those sweet people did.

And they screwed this up royally and they meant well. I'll guarantee you they're not bad people. They didn't go, "Hey, let's screw Chris over." That wasn't what they meant to do.

>> Yeah. Just don't be doing this stuff,

people. All right. James is with us.

James is in Lexington, Kentucky. Hi, James. How are you?

>> I'm good. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, man. Um, you know, I'm really interested in um how can I regain control of my finances? Um, I just graduated college. Um, you know, I have a good job, but I feel like I'm in control. >> Cool. What's the good job? What are you making?

>> Um, 73 uh base salary and then uh with

bonus and everything, I'll be should be around 80. >> Good for you. Cool. Are you married?

>> I am. Well, fiance. Um, and then I have

a son with my previous relationship and then we have two kids, my fiance and I. >> Oh, when you getting married?

>> Um, you know, whenever she wants to. We haven't set a date yet.

>> Saturday works for me.

>> Dave is free. >> I'll send you the invite. >> Okay. And the um All right. So, what

does she make?

>> So, she she stays at home. That is the uh that is what's best for us.

>> Yeah, Saturday works for me. All right.

And uh she's in extreme risk right now.

I don't like the position she's in. As her friend, I'm telling her to marry you now.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Anyway, now we got that behind us.

So, you got how much debt with your $80,000 job and three kids and fiance

getting ready to be wife?

>> So, my student loans that is the largest um 44,000. Um, I've had I've used that to supplement income all throughout uh my time at school. My car made a dumb uh

purchase uh when my son was born. I'm not I still owe about 20,000 on there.

Um and then my credit cards around 12 and then she has around 12 as well. Um

12 12,000 on credit cards as well.

>> Gotcha. Okay. 44. You got 88,000. You

make 80. It's going to take you um 2 and 1/2 years of living on beans and rice, rice and beans. and you can pay all this off.

>> Okay? >> And that's if nobody adds any income to the equation. And you ought to try to talk about somebody adding some income to this equation if you can. Um, so and

I am I'm not being just smart elic only.

Uh there's all kinds of data points that says being married is going to cause you to succeed financially.

And so I want I want good things for y'all. I love y'all. I want you to win.

Okay. So then we're going to list our debts, smallest to largest. We're going to cut up the credit cards tonight.

We're going to get on an every dollar budget tonight. We'll George and I will give you a premium version and let you get started. The two of you sit down together. Uh and since you're going to be married on Saturday, you can go ahead and start doing it tonight like you were married. And um you sit down with everything and you're looking at it together and saying, "Okay, we have the this baby and I've got these kids and we've got this stuff we've got to take care of and um you know, and we got a

house and we got to get, you know, we're going to plow through these credit cards, get rid of them. Then we're going to knock that car out and then we're going to knock that student loan out." Meanwhile, paying minimum payments on everything but the little one. Attack the little one. Everything but the little one. Attack the little one. Everything but the little one. And attack the little one with a vengeance.

You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as your extra job. And don't talk to me about a vacation. You are seriously broke. Broke people don't go on vacation. And get this mess cleaned up in the next two years. And if you get you get kind of you kind of hear that anger in my voice like, "Ah, right. The coach at halftime." >> Mhm. >> That's what I want inside of y'all.

Okay? I'm trying to transfer that to you. and you get that that that swagger going and you start punching these credit cards out, knocking them in the nose, going, "You people are screwing my family's future. I hate you, City Bank.

I hate you, Fifth Third. Get out of my life." Then then when you kind of get that idea going, then then you you have a villain in the story and you are the hero. You get to go win and it changes everything. And that's that's what I want him to do, George. >> Yeah. What What is your intensity level right now, James? One out of 10, would you say, to get out of this debt?

20. You know, last week I sat down and I spent hours on an Excel chart because I hate where budgeting apps charge you a subscription fee. I think that's one of the biggest scams in [laughter] this industry right now, man. It's it's mind-blowing.

You know, you get on the app store, look up budgeting, inapp purchases, inapp purchases. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. We don't have any inapp purchases, but we do charge you a subscription fee after we give you this free portion.

So, we'll give it to you for free for a while, so you don't have to worry about it.

>> Okay. >> I I I won't I won't hold back on that, but we have to pay. We have to pay the guys that build the app and run the thing. So, >> if it gets you at 88 grand in debt, I'd say it was worth the purchase.

But if you don't do anything with it, I agree. It was a waste of your money. So, I hope it helps you. But I just wanted to see how intense you were and even think about selling this car if it's worth more than 20 grand.

Get out of that payment. >> I think you're going to do it. I'm proud of you, man. Go do it.

You're going to have a great life. You graduate. You got babies. You got a new wife.

Life's going to be great, man. >> But for now, you got to keep living like a broke college kid, which is going to be not as fun. I got a new salary. I'm a big I got to go buy some things.

You got to pay off some debt. You'll get there. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. So, why do people pay to join a gym if they can

lift >> It's a scam. >> If they can lift weights at home, [snorts] >> h the environment >> because they don't lift weights at home.

That's why. >> And there's some skin in the game. If I paid for something, >> all you do is stub your toe on them.

That's all they're for. Stub your toe.

>> I want to see a study. If it was a free gym membership versus a paid gym membership, who's showing up at each gym? >> I'd be interested to see.

>> Inquiring minds want to know.

[music]

>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us. George Camel, Ramsay personality,

number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Janessa is with us in

Salt Lake City. Hi, Janessa. How are you? >> I am so good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Oh, wonderful. Um, so me and my husband,

we are struggling with a decision to make. We have decided to kind of get our

butts in gear on our student loans,

>> but in the past year, we have promised our girls season passes to a local amusement park.

>> And we are trying to decide if we break our promise to our young kids and try to teach them a financial lesson or we

delay paying off our debt about two to

three weeks and keep our promise.

[snorts]

Okay. Um well, if you take sometimes if you take an ethics thing uh to an extreme, it'll give you the answer. Okay. So, you have

information that is available to you today that was not available to you today or at least your viewpoint on the student loans was not the same when you made the promise.

Things have changed.

>> Yes. So, if we took it to an extreme and said, "Hey, mom's got cancer

and so we're not going to get the theme park things this year because we're going to pay the doctor bills." That's that's not that didn't happen. And I'm not speaking that into existence. Okay.

But if it was something like that, you wouldn't have an ethics problem because it's new information.

>> Correct. Yes. And so I think the, you

know, I I would sit down with them and say, "Kids, at the time we were trying to ignore these." How old are the kids?

[snorts] >> Um, we've got a six-year-old, sevenyear-old, 9year-old, and a 10-year-old. >> Okay. Well, they're not going to remember whatever it is much past Friday anyway. But, um, but but you know what I

would do is say at the time we sat down and talked about this, we thought we were able to do it. And now we've looked at our the details of our debt. And I know you don't understand that necessarily, but we are we're not in trouble. We're not going to be hungry.

We're not going to lose our home, but we do have to clean up this debt. And we're going to have to get serious about it. And that means this year we're not going to be able to do the season passes unless we come up with some other way to pay for them. And you might create some How expensive are they?

>> Um, all in all, it'd be about $1,300.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> All together. >> And it it might be that if we come up with some kind of fun kid/parent participation adventure that is the u

the GoFundMe of lemonade stands or something and um you know teach them a way. We got to go find this money if we're going to do this kids. And so we're going to have an adventure by doing these three things and we're going to cut grass or we're going to rake leaves or we're going to do this together and come up with a 1300 that that way because we can't just go buy it after what we've discovered about our debts and we've got to pay it. And so that's a third option.

One option is buy it when you can't afford it.

New information. Third option is, is there some kind of an adventure that we can turn this into that says, okay, the

way, you know, what do we do when we're broke? We we go to work. Let's find something. Let's find something. Let's all get in here. And if y'all want to do that, we'll be able to do it. If you don't want to do that, that's okay. Uh it'll just be next year at least because we've got to get this student loans knocked out.

>> Okay? >> When I was 11, my parents sold our boat because they had a bad year in the real estate business.

And you remember it. >> I'm still in counseling, [laughter] >> but now Dave has multiple boats, so he's recovered. >> I have I have recovered. I have lots of boats now. [laughter] >> His boat has its own boat. It's very impressive. So, yeah, this is a It's just delaying it. It's not a no. It's not crushing their dreams. It's just a not now. And so, when are you going to be debtree?

>> Um, in a year. >> Okay, great. >> Will the theme park still be there in a year? I I sure hope so. >> Yeah. >> Can we do something that's an alternative that maybe is free or super low cost that also is fun?

>> Um, that's what we've been talking about. Yeah. Our local pool has a swim

pass for the summer we were thinking of doing instead. >> There you go. There you go. That's a good idea. >> So, there's still something fun for them to look forward to and their other things just delayed by a little bit. I like this plan. >> Yeah. Our neighbors had a boat. That's what we did. >> Find find a friend with a boat. [laughter] You just saved yourself a lot of emotional hassle and finances and pickups. Find someone else that has it and use theirs. Yeah, [laughter] >> that's what I do. I borrow Dave's boats.

>> Yeah, >> I wouldn't know how to drive it. Sadly, I'd crash. >> You're not getting near my boat. >> I barely could drive your little seed. Do I almost crash that thing, so >> I know >> I haven't been on it since. >> It's scary. It was a really scary day for me. Uh I'm in counseling for that, too. But yeah, uh I I think the thing is

um I it's a bigger deal

to you. This is grandpa talking, okay?

Eight grandkids. It's a bigger deal to you than it is to them.

This breaking your promise thing. And it's not like it's not like you have a pattern throughout their lives of setting them up and then disappointing them. Setting them up and then disappointing them. You're not that person or you wouldn't even be asking this question if you were that person.

So they're fine. they're going to be okay. Uh, find an adventure to get them paid for. Buy the pool passes instead.

One year from now, you'll be able to do it. And you can all talk about the time that we took a year off and got ourselves cleaned up as a family. And that's when we changed our family tree.

And then when you're celebrating your 50th wedding anniversary, your kid can stand up and give a toast because of the character he witnessed when he was 11 that his parents delayed pleasure to change the family tree. That's a a great lesson learned and some character built there as well. >> That's it. That that's what's really going to happen. Not they're going to be so disillusioned that they need counseling. >> I would love for them to be in therapy going, "Yeah, what happened?" Well, I got a pass at 7 instead of six.

[laughter] That really crushed me, man.

I just don't see >> Never never recovered. Never came back from that one. [laughter] Blake's in Washington, DC. Hey, Blake.

How can we help?

>> Hey, how's it going?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Uh yeah. So I just had a quick question about I'll try to keep this short like it will but I am just wondering I'm still planning out my education my career path. I just graduate graduated with my undergrad. >> Oh cool. What's your degree in?

>> Public public health. >> Awesome. Public health. All right. >> Okay. Good.

>> Yeah. and I want to go to aiology school

and that would be a three-year program

and I do have some student loan debt from my public health degree. I graduated in three years as well and so now I'm just working and and applying for aiology school. Uh but because of

you know I I feel like uh current times have changed and I feel like there's some things that I also need to change with my plan. So, I was just um actually

thinking of holding back aiology for like 2 or 3 years until I work and then I can save up that money, pay off some of my debt and then, you know, save up cash flow as well. >> Nothing wrong with that.

>> Try to Yeah, cuz it's going to be all on my own money. But my uh family does they

do want me to go straight into aiology school starting next year. I'm just a little bit scared because I feel like that >> Well, they're not paying for it, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat] >> Well, they don't get a vote.

>> Um, >> you only get a vote if you're paying for it.

>> Yeah, [music] I I definitely understand.

>> You can have an opinion, but you don't get a vote. And the opinion is is that it's no big deal for you to go deeply in debt. No big deal to them.

>> So, I wouldn't let them pressure me unless they're writing the check along with it. >> I I I think they mean well, but they don't see this as big a problem as you do, or you wouldn't even be calling here. So, I like your plan better, Blake.

>> [music]

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[music]

Noah is in Hawaii. Hi Noah. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi Dave. Thanks for having me.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> So I am in a bit of a kuffle. Um I have

moved home to uh try to help my dad with

his business. Uh we're in construction.

Um, and we are digging into the finances.

Um, I've been listening to the show for a long time. I am currently trying to get myself out of debt. I'm 4 grand away. Um, but have come to find out that

Father at 61 has saved nothing for retirement.

Um, it is met every time with I'll

figure it out or it's not your problem.

But Dave, I feel like it is my problem.

You know, he's my dad and I've got to take care of him at some point. Well, that's sweet, but it's not your problem.

>> He's right. >> Really? >> Yeah. Really? >> Okay. >> You're $4,000 in debt. You're broke. You came home to try to help him with his business.

That's your problem.

And uh you keep that running. He, you know, he he's a grown 61-y old man. He should take care of it.

>> I mean, he's not he's not mentally disabled.

>> You're right about that. Yeah. So, it's not your problem. I mean, if he if he was, you know, if he had a brain injury or something, maybe you'd want to go, okay, I need to help my dad, right? But all he is is bullheaded.

>> Fair enough. >> Did you ask him why he hasn't put a scent away for 40 years?

>> Um, I I think the conversation scares him. I don't think he knows what what to do about it. And I think it's gotten to a point where avoidance is the only technique. >> I think you can end up helping him. And I'll give you an idea. But first thing I want you to do is release this emotional burden of having to carry your dad.

Okay? But the way you help him is this.

You finish turning this business around, getting yourself out of debt, and then the more you get involved in the running of the business, set up a 401k at the business and sign him up for it.

>> Okay. >> I mean, he's probably going to work another 10 years, isn't he?

>> Uh, I'm hoping he's able to. Um it's

it's >> how many people how many people on your construction team?

>> Uh so right now we've just come down to three. So it's him, myself, and an accounts manager. Then everything else for the most part we subcontract out.

>> Okay. So he's not physically straining.

>> So >> you know, um the the the issue with with

his kind of thing here is that he's he's kind of avoiding technology and you've got a bunch of other companies coming in and kind of taking over. See, you can fix that too is to the extent you take over the running of the business.

>> If you guys keep running the business and you continue to insert yourself in the operations of the business and you help with the technology and you help grow the business and you help keep it alive and and you know, if you can't do that, then y'all need to shut the thing down and you need to go both get go get a job, right?

>> Awesome. >> And you know, it's almost almost against his will, but you tell him, you go, "Hey, I just set up a 401k. I'm going to be putting my money in or putting our money into me and our money into you, and I need you to sign this right here. Shut up.

Sometimes you got to sneak the vegetables in for their own good.

>> Eat your broccoli. Yeah.

>> Does he have any money saved? Is he like a tin can guy? Like does he have anything or is he really just can't live on less than he makes?

>> Well, so the company does well enough to where when he needs money, he just draws it out. >> Yeah. >> Um and so he has got nothing saved. I believe from what the digging that I've been doing, he's got about eight grand in debt, which is nice. That's not much.

And he makes enough to pay it. Um but yeah. No, nothing in savings. No emergency savings, >> no other assets.

>> Yeah. So, part of your uh business job

to grow this business is to take the the inner workings of the business and make them more sophisticated. You knew that already and you were the one told us that. And as you're doing that, you get

your debts paid off, his debts paid off.

You get you start in instituting some financial systems as part of it. And one of those financial systems is [snorts] what's called a simple 401k. It's a 401k

uh or simple IRA. It's a 401k for businesses, for small businesses your size. And um and and you know, it's real

easy to set up, very inexpensive to set up except for the money that you stick into it. And so then you guys when you go make some money, you don't have any debt payments. You've got some savings in the business called retained earnings. That's part of your systems.

You're building your technology base.

you're competing, you're even getting ahead of the competition out there and the way you're doing the jobs and in the

process your profits go up and you start chunking a bunch of them into the retirement. That's how you take care of him is almost against his will. But I

don't want you feeling like you failed as a son if a fullbodied full-brained

61-year-old didn't take care of themselves.

That's not your a failure on your part.

You have done nothing wrong. I'm not going to guilt trip you for I don't and I don't want you to guilt trip yourself.

>> You can't and shouldn't fund his lifestyle for the rest of his life once he's done working. Yeah, >> that's a bad plan. >> By 61 or so, somewhere in there you should grow up somewhere in there. I'm

trying still, but I'm still still trying, but I'm getting there.

>> All right, Ricky. Ricky is with us.

Ricky's in Orange County. Hi, Ricky. How are you? >> Hi, Dave. How you doing? Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. Um I'll I'll just paint a picture as to what the situation is. So um I'm

in California so I'm considered in under their world of high net worth uh based on my income. I have about 5 million in

equities two [clears throat] little over 2 million in 401k on top of that. So so

we're looking about seven um income

around 600 a year. >> Good for you. >> Now my question to you my question to you is this.

It's [snorts] bothering me that based on discussing with my CPA that the house that I live in uh I guess around 6,000T

house I bought it for 2.5 mil maybe it's

worth 4344 today. Uh the mortgage is

about 1.1. Um and I know I've been

listening to you a long time but I I I feel I want to continue to keep the mortgage because the it's it's free money. It's at 2.2 two 2.3% fixed but

that's a separate issues but the bottom reason why I'm asking is question is I have a lot of equity sitting there roughly around 3 million and I could be

uh given the fact of my my income is not

allowing me to write off any of the $30,000 a year in taxes for property

taxes I have zero write off on that they won't allow me to write off any of the interest so I'm thinking like based on my return that I'm on my equities, whether it's the 401k or the other 5 million. Um I'm averaging, you know, maybe 12% a year. Um in in in good

indexes and um and the amount of money I

could be making 250 300,000 a year on that equity, I'm better off maybe renting given I'm uh given my I'm not

getting any benefit of the right off of being a homeowner. And I don't think in this country necessarily it's a benefit to be a homeowner if if you're if you're

not getting the ability to >> your analysis the problem is your analysis is based on a moment in time rather than projecting into the future.

And so your analysis is flawed.

>> Okay. >> And so so I'm calling bull crap on your statement that in America today it's not a good idea to own a house. That's just bull crap. So because you're looking at this particular moment in time, you forgot the fact that this house has gone up several million dollars while you owned it. You seem to leave that out of the equation.

>> But true, but then again, if I were to put, you know, uh I based on the money >> California real estate has done better than mutual funds,

>> ROI, return on investment, >> right? Of course. >> Period. Okay. It's done better. it.

Yeah, you can't write off the taxes.

Welcome to your socialistic state. But that's, you know, that's the problem that you got where you chose to live.

But the the issue is that re California

real estate remains an excellent investment.

And and so no, I no renting and, you

know, putting all your equity in an S&P does not outperform owning real estate.

[music] I own a whole bunch of both. I believe in both. Uh, and all the people that we know that have 10 to $60 million

net worth that we coach, [music] my net worth several hundred million, uh, own a good mixture of real estate and mutual funds and they've owned their own home paid for for [music] decades. They haven't overanalyzed this.

[music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> So, George, the uh Ramsey Show live

recordings that we've done in all these different cities, Charlotte and Denver, they're a big hit. >> Oh, yeah. We had a blast doing them in April and we finally released the very first one. Charlotte dropped last week.

Denver episode releases later this week.

We got Phoenix and Anaheim coming in the next few weeks. And uh I was on that one with Rachel and Ken. We had 300 people filled with live questions. So you actually get to see the person asking the question.

And even better, we bring the spouse or boyfriend up. And >> does that make you meaner or nicer? You have to be nicer. >> You have to be a little nicer.

You can kind of poke a little more as which is fun and be a little snarkier with the live audience because they can tell it's for entertainment purposes and you kind of get the crowd on your side or against you. And so that kind of adds a whole another element to it. So my favorite was, "How much should my boyfriend spend on an engagement ring?" And you know, Rachel and he's there.

>> That's a good one. >> So if you want to go watch it, it's live on our Ramsay Show YouTube channel, Spotify, Ramsey Network app, go check it out. It's like nothing you've seen before on this show with a live audience like that. >> That's fun.

Very fun. So yeah, we got four cities. Denver, Charlotte's already up. Denver will be up this week and then you'll see Phoenix and Anaheim come on in the next few weeks.

You don't want to miss these. Every one of the Ramsey personalities had a blast being out there with you folks. So, uh, thank you all for showing up.

John is in Nashville. Hey, John. What's up?

>> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call. Um,

I am 23 and I am debtree. Um, I when I first

graduated, I took out a truck loan and all that and I I got it all figured out.

Um, so right now I have no debt. I got about 35,000 saved up and uh trying to

figure out what I should do next. >> Wow, that's impressive. Good job. What do you make?

>> Um, I make about 60,000 a year. Um, and

I work for family business and that's part of my issue is uh is coming up with that. >> What's the issue? >> So, at first at first it was me, mom and dad in the restaurant every day and uh everything was going great and it seemed like uh more of the responsibilities were getting pushed my way. And now it's me in there every day and mom and dad don't really work anymore.

and he he gave me a business card that said, "I'm owner operator, but I'm making about 20 bucks an hour." And uh my mom, you know, I don't I don't want them to work all the time, but you know, mom's working no days a week and dad will work, you know, one day a week and >> they own it. >> That's they own it, right?

>> So, it's a formality that it's you're not an owner operator, >> right? >> You're an employee. I have business cards that say I am >> that's of no value whatsoever. Okay.

Well, I mean, could you get a job at another restaurant if you were the general manager of another restaurant and you were responsible for the operations? What would you make?

>> Um, well, I'm not exactly sure.

I I applied for BIES in Murphusboro. I

applied to be the assistant manager up there and it does pretty good.

>> Um, >> what does that pay? But I hadn't I don't It pays 33 plus uh benefits and retirement. >> Mhm. >> See, right now I'm a 109. See, here's my issue. So, he kicked me out of the house. Understandable. I'm 23. You know, it's about time. >> Mhm. >> And so, I came and got an apartment and

started looking at one day getting my own home. And I'm a 1099 employee.

>> No, you're not. >> And uh >> you're not supposed to be. >> Oh, I'm not. >> Yeah. that y'all y'all are screwing that up. You're going to make a mess. You You're not an employee. I mean, you're not a 1099. 1099 is an independent subcontractor. You're an employee.

They're going to they're going to get their butt fined by the IRS big time.

You're you guys are going to end up with tax penalties and all kinds of stuff.

You need you need your family needs to get some professional tax advice on how they do payroll.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. This is going to that's going to get ugly. It's going to end up with a mess.

But I think we got a bigger mess, and that is is that your parents walked off and handed you this thing, but they didn't really hand it to you. So, I think y'all are just going to sit down and go, "Okay, Dad, what's the plan? I'm going to I'm going to need to get with a tax person. I've gotten financial advice that says I'm going to get messed up on this 1099, and you're going to get messed up when we get audited.

You're not going to like it." So, we need to get that fixed.

Okay. >> And it's not an hour. It's not an hourly It's not an hourly rate.

>> Let's see. And And uh >> I'm sorry. I I hate to get keep interrupting you. What kind of revs is the restaurant producing?

>> Um we do about about 2,000 a day. So

that'd be 12,000 a week because we're close Sunday. So that's about 50,000 a month roughly. Now we got a food truck.

So sometimes those numbers can change.

Um but but just in the restaurant, that's what I do. They they'll do the food truck um when we do it. Now, this year they decided we're we're only going to do it about five times this year.

>> Is this their retirement plan? Like is all Are they basically getting paid from the business and don't have anything else?

>> I'm not sure if we got a plan.

>> That's my fear. >> It's really starting to bother me. >> Yeah. I think you need to sit down and say we've Okay, Dad. We need to formalize this. Bies is going to make me an offer at 33 plus benefits.

and properly pay me on a W2. And so, if

I'm going to stay in here and I'm going to do all the work, I'm going to need to be paid like a general manager because I'm g I'm your general manager. And that's going to be a base salary. Uh, that's the equivalent of $40 an hour for a 40-hour week, but you're probably going to put in more than 40 hours plus a percentage of profits as your bonus.

And then you need to close the books on the restaurant each month and tell what the profits are each month.

Well, see that that's part of my problem is I pay all the employees. I buy all the supplies. So, I I know I can do simple math. I know how much he's making. >> And too, >> it's a lot lot more than me, you know.

>> Yeah. >> And uh >> I mean, you are you are only 23, but you

are doing the job. And so, regardless of your age >> and your experience or whatever, if you're giving a job, you should be paid to do that job. I'm not asking you to be paid more than the job is worth, but if you weren't there, they would have to hire a general manager for a salary of 30, 40 bucks an hour average and some

kind of a bonus kick based on profits.

That's what you would get paid in that business. Agreed.

>> Yes, sir. >> And if you weren't there, that's what they got to do. So, if you take the job at BIES, that's what they're going to have to do. They're going to have to hire somebody, >> right?

And I'm I'm about at the point to where I'm I'm about to just start looking and applying just about anywhere cuz it's getting it's been a little overwhelming. >> I think you sit down, have a cup of coffee before you do that and say, "Mom and dad, I got a problem.

need to be paid for being the general manager and I'm going to close the books and we're going to get a base salary and a and a percentage of profits for being the general manager and we're going to develop a plan where I become the owner of this a little bit at a time overtime

and um meanwhile you guys are going to make a lot of money and you don't have to work as much. I'll take care of running the thing, but if you don't want to pay me to the proper amount to do the job that you've got, then I need to go work somewhere else and you need to get somebody in here that's going to enjoy doing this, >> which by the way, you can't get for $20 an hour, >> right?

Um, >> that's fair. I mean, you sit and have that conversation with them. And if they say, "Screw you. You're supposed to work for free," then go get a job somewhere else and let them figure it out.

They're not going to say that. >> That's what worries me. When I told him that, hey, I'm >> When I told him, hey, I'm looking for a new job. It's kind of like he got aggressive and >> he took it as a

>> Right. And I didn't want to I don't want to mess up my family situation. You know, >> you're not messing it up. They are.

>> Okay. >> All you're doing is talking about it.

>> And I wouldn't say I'm going to quit if you don't do this. But I would say, "Dad, if we can't work something out that's reasonable here, I'm going to be forced to do something different." And if he wants to get aggressive based on that, then go do something different.

Cuz you're going to get aggressive every time you have a conversation about this business >> and then you're going to build resentment. >> Can't have a conversation. >> Ruin the relationship anyways. >> Yeah. I mean, my son and I get in arguments. We run Ramsay together, but we don't get an argument every time we're together.

We're most of the time we don't have an argument, but occasionally we just like, no, we fuss and fight.

>> We fight like grown-ups. >> Yeah, we fight like grown-ups. We're arguing about an idea. [music] We're not personally offended like a four-year-old.

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Dylan in New Mexico.

I'm aware of your recommendation to invest your money evenly in four funds, small cap, midcap, large cap, and international. I also hear you guys regularly reference the average annual return of the S&P over the last 30 to 50 years. Can you provide some insight into how his investment protocol has performed compared to the S&P? If mimicking S&P performance is the key metric, why wouldn't he recommend just parking your money in an S&P index fund?

>> That's a great question. He I assume meaning Dave per your recommendation for for many many years now.

>> All right. So inside how this investment's performed compared to the S&P. Well the small cap midcap large cap international there's not a a one fund that we can look at to compare to the S&P. But the S&P largely is a bunch of

you know midcap and large cap companies if you look at the makeup of that. So it's just not as diversified as what you're mentioning. >> Exactly. So here's the thing. individual mutual funds uh in the growth

mutual fund sector uh less than half of

them beat the S&P

and that was um the guy that started the

Vanguard S&P index fund Bogle uh John

Bogle was brilliant and he he discovered that and so he came up with this idea of

where you hear the phrase passive investing that's where it first came from where you don't have to worry about about it. You just buy the S&P. Screw it. Because half the mutual funds don't even beat it. >> And those people that do that are passive investors, sometimes called bogal heads. Uh because John was actually on to something. His actual data was correct and is correct. Um to

this day, half the growth stock mutual funds do not outperform the S&P. But that also means it's kind of like there's a 60% chance of rain, there's a 40% chance of sunshine. Hello. So I have

picked in the four categories four mutual funds that have outperformed

their indexes.

Now the small cap the index would be the Russell because a small cap is uh not

necessar it's more like a an aggressive growth stock mutual fund, right? A midcap would be like a growth that's more like a that's a typical growth mutual fund. Large cap typical growth stock mutual fund. you said the S&P is a mix of those two.

And then obviously international, a foreign fund, that's a different index. Okay. So, what I want to do is pick a fund that outperforms the no-brain way of doing it, the passive way of doing it. And so if I've got a mutual fund that for 35 years has outperformed the S&P and it's a growth stock mutual fund and I put that in my four.

I've got a SN I've got a small cap that's outperformed the Russell and I put that in my four and so on. Well, guess what?

So, my particular four mutual funds that

most of my stuff is in that that has outperformed the indexes has outperformed the S&P because I didn't

pick one of them that didn't. That's why. >> And the other piece of this that we're not factoring in is that that international fund, which we recommend 25%. If you look at the S&P 500 and it's down in a given year, the international fund usually is up.

>> Yeah. It pretty much runs the inverse.

And so even if in a given year if the index, you know, beat your mutual fund setup, you're not factoring in the long term of what could happen in the market, >> but it never has. I my my the four I picked has always outperformed the S&P every single year. >> So if the average in the S&P is 10 to 12, you might be seeing 13 14.

>> Yeah. I've not gotten 10 points more.

Not >> it's not 20%. >> And here's the thing. Let's go back on this too. It's very interesting. I mean, the way I'm doing it is actually mathematically beating it. So it does answer the guy's question. But the problem with this discussion is always that somebody's having this hypothetical

if I had done this thing. And and when

we actually have figured out that people who invest in slightly substandard mutual funds way

outperform those who never invest >> or those who jump out or those who are in single stocks, >> those who analyze everything to the point that they've got an anal problem with it, right? And it's like, you guys, would you shut up and invest

cuz 100% of the people that invest end

up with more money than those that don't every time. And that's the number you need to concentrate on. And so if >> it's not mutual funds versus index funds, >> if you actually do the index fund versus

the person that believes what we believe and doesn't do anything, I'm on your side. I'm glad I got you to invest in something because if you just put money away, you'll have some money. It's magical. And so like for instance, as we studied the m all the millionaires we studied, most of them were not super sophisticated investors. They c they didn't spend a lot of time analyzing like Dylan is what this is and what I should do and D. There's not a lot of theoretical mumbo jumbo.

>> They weren't prodigies. They were people. Uh, I got a 401k at work and I'm gonna put some money in a gross stock mutual fund and now I'm a millionaire.

And that's exactly what they did. I mean, they really didn't they picked out their mutual fund based on what the guy in the cubicle next to them was doing.

They did not do some kind of sophisticated uh think tank analysis. But here's the

trick. They did put money in investments. They didn't sit around and talk about it and NOT DO IT. THAT'S the

problem. So, you know, the percentages all go out the window until you actually do it. >> Yeah. Whether it's 12 or 13% doesn't matter if you have no money in the market. >> So, all that to say, Dylan, I have four mutual funds that have outperformed the S&P for 30 years as a group. Not hard to

do. It's really not that tough to do.

You can have your Smart Investor Pro say, "Show me some mutual funds that have a 25-y year track record of outperforming the S&P." They can do it.

They're there. Not all of them, less than half, but they're there. Okay? And you can put that little portfolio together and if it does what it did in the past, it will outperform the S&P.

Mine half. But if you don't want to do that and you just want to put it in the S&P, you're going to end up with a lot of money. We'll all end up rich >> and we'll be happy for you. We're not mad at you.

But that's the answer to your overall question. >> What a great nerdy discussion. >> It is a fun. >> By the way, you actually cover how to pick mutual funds in our investing essentials virtual event.

We've got one coming up later this year.

But that's where if you want to nerd out like this, you're interested in this kind of conversation, you want to know how to build wealth the right way in depth, we'll walk you through it in that event. >> Yeah. And and but here's the thing. I I go the [sighs] we have talked more people into putting money in their 401k and Roth IAS than anybody in America because we got them out of debt so that they could do it and then they believed us and so they went and did it.

>> It's a margin issue and a little bit of education. >> And then there's some not Dylan but there's some, you know, on the internet going, "Well, Dave Ramsey's created more poor people." No, he didn't. He got people to invest while you're sitting with your thumb in your ear. >> You weren't listening very well if Dave Ramsey made you poor.

I mean, >> that's pretty wild. That's just But that's they said, you know, because he doesn't understand. He doesn't understand how. Yes, I do understand it, you idiot.

But what I'm better at than you are is getting people to actually invest instead of discussing freaking theory.

Theory doesn't matter until it's applied. You know, I really don't care

what you think about swinging a baseball bat until you swing one, honey. And then we'll talk about whether you can connect. That's how this works. You got a lot of theory going on out there. You got a lot of people that have an opinion out there, that have no stinking money.

It's all these life coaches that don't have a life. It's the same thing, you know. And so, guys, just invest. Even if

you do it wrong, you're doing it better than the who talks about it and never does it. >> It's like a bunch of out of shape people talking about workout routines and which one's better. It's like, yeah, great.

Let's go work out. How about that? >> Arnold Schwarzenegger has created more fat people. No, he didn't. No, he didn't. It's just that's just dumb.

Okay, seriously. But here's the trick.

If you invest, you're going to have some money. Oo.

>> And if you don't invest, >> you're not going to have any money. Take the money away. You're not going to have any money.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Joshua's in

Houston, Texas. Hey Joshua, what's up?

>> Hey Dave, thanks for having me on your show. I appreciate you taking the call.

>> Sure. How can I help? >> Let me uh let me give you kind of like a

brief backstory. I'm 31 years old. I

work as an HVAC technician. I make around $92,000 a year, but I still feel

like I'm drowning financially and living paycheck to paycheck. Over the last year, I spent $22,000 fighting custody

battle for my son, which I al ultimately lost and kind of wrecked me financially.

Right now, I have about $17,000 through

uh a loan, another 28,000 through an

affirm loan, and then I have some credit card debt, about $3,500, and then I owe

some family members around $7,500

because they help with my attorney fees.

Um, I have some student loan, but I'm in a forgiveness program with them. Uh, which

I have like zero dollar payments, but they're expected to be forgiven in about 30 years. I've also been in a debt settlement program for about a year now uh through National Debt Relief, and I pay them about $63 a month while they're

working to settle my debts. I pay

about 20 to 250 a month in rent, 650 in

child support, and they also may be increasing that soon. Uh, I pay $750 a

month in health insurance through work.

Uh, and I pay $520 a month for my truck,

which is about to be paid off in two months, thank God. Um, and other monthly

bills, obviously. But I feel like no matter how much I work, I can't get ahead. And I also want to buy a house soon, but I I feel stuck.

>> You're not buying a house soon. You're not buying a house anytime soon. You're broke. You You got a lot of cleanup do before you buy a house. So, let's just set that on the side.

>> And then I mean, okay.

>> And you're getting ready to have the truck paid off. So, that's going to free up a bunch of money. You do know where your money's going. It wouldn't take you long to build your every dollar budget because you've got most of the numbers in your head that are pretty clear.

And I still hear room in this. I still hear room in what you've got.

>> Um, but what you've done is you've been focusing on the heartache of a uh custody battle. And you've been

focusing every single dollar that you could towards that. And that's been a

valid distraction for a year. And now

that distraction has passed because you lost. And now you know where you stand and now you've got to turn around and focus back on cleaning up your mess. But you really weren't working on the mess before and so it was sitting there or getting bigger and now you can work on it. I think you're going to be okay.

Well, my question really truly is like

now, should I get out of the debt settlement program and pay the $63 that

I paid them and just pay them uh pay my

creditors directly.

>> Probably >> you can do what they're doing on your own without tanking your financial world because they told you to stop making payments, goes into collections, then they try to settle. I've already done Yeah, I've done that for about a I've been doing cuz I did it I've done it like twice now. I've gone through different programs, but I've been doing it for about two years.

>> Yeah. You keep looking for one of these programs to straighten you out and you got to straighten you out.

>> And that's kind of where it's like I've never really had any real instruction on

>> how to put money away while trying to

pay off those debt. You don't need to put money away. We need to clean up the debt. That's >> And then don't go into any more debt. >> Yeah. First thing is don't borrow more.

The second thing is we're going to get on a detailed written budget. We're going to give you every dollar. Our budgeting app once you sit down tonight and fill it all out. It's really not hard. >> I mean, >> I actually have that app. >> Okay.

We'll start using it tonight.

>> It's going to guide you through step by step exactly what to do and how to build

that out and then stick to it. and you

make enough to pay all these bills and extra on these bills and get rid of them. Particularly when you get your car paid off, that's going to free up another 500 bucks a month to be able to attack this stuff with. And then if you want to stay in the debt settlement thing until you get this moving, that's fine. If you want to step out of it, that's fine.

If you want to check with Guardian Litigation, they're a different type of program, but they do similar thing. They don't work the same way uh that we endorse. you could talk to them and see what they can do. But I think more than anything, you've got to take control of this and you've been focusing your energies emotionally, spiritually, financially on other things.

And that's valid because it was a kid and you need to take care of that kind of stuff first. But now, now we know where we stand. And now it's time to focus on the best dad you can be. And that is cleaning up your life and getting this mess cleaned up.

You got serious payments going around that place from everywhere. And no, we're not waiting 30 years. Pay off the stupid student loans. They're just the last thing we're going to get to. When you get to them, knock them out, too.

List your debts, smallest to largest.

Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, and attack the little one with a vengeance. So, hang on. I'll

send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover book also, which shows you exactly how to do this stuff. and you can go you can read it to go with your every dollar app and you'll be fine and you call us back if you want more help but more than anything it's focus and being very intentional and I think you

can do it with the numbers you gave me.

You really do know what you're where you stand and that's pretty stinking cool.

All right, Junior is with us in Atlanta.

Hi, Junior. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing well. >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Doing well. Doing well. So, a what what

the reason why I'm calling is because a couple of years ago, um we went through

Hurricane Helen.

And unfortunately with Hurricane Helen,

we had a a couple of things that ended up happening um with the de devastation

to our home and our property. Um things like, you know, our roof.

>> It's in Augusta. Augusta hit us hard.

>> Oh, okay. Oh man.

>> Yeah. Um, so in Augusta, we got hit

pretty hard with Hurricane Helen and and you know, our roof, our uh deck again, our fence and and now we had a power

surge ended up messing up our AC unit.

Uh, fast forward, we've been doing band-aid repairs. >> Did you not get an insurance settlement at the time?

>> So, so we tried to go through the insurance at the time. We had All State and All State told us that we had a

clause that uh any typhoon, cyclone or

hurricane related damage was a 10%

deductible on the of the entire dwelling coverage. My my home's value is about

$360,000.

So out of pocket, they wanted us to come out first 36 grand roughly. And

>> so what's it going to cost you out of pocket now if you do it on your own

>> to do all the repairs on our own?

>> Mhm.

>> Well, right now we're we're going through getting all the estimates for everything that needs to be done. Um we've thankfully we've been approved and

and I say thankfully uh lightly because

>> for a loan uh hang on we'll be right back with you. We want to make sure we get the good all the details and we'll be back with [music] you in a minute.

All

>> [music]

[music]

>> right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsay trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseyolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseyolutions.com/

[music]

Junior. He's got a house in Augusta, Georgia. was damaged by Hurricane Hela a couple of years ago. All State doesn't pay out on typhoons and hurricanes. He discovered after the fact, so I'm guessing you have different insurance now that you figured out All State's not a good idea. And um they pay out, but

they wanted a 10% deductible of 300 or $30,000 on a $300,000 house. So now he's

got all these repairs that still remain undone. And that's about how far we got in the discussion. Does that sound right, Junior?

Yes, sir. That's correct. >> Okay. So, what repairs remain to be done today?

>> We are still getting an inspection on our roof. Um thankfully, uh one person

mentioned that it it's looking good.

There's no need to go into the uh into into the attic. Um I need to replace an AC unit. Our deck is completely done

for. Um and it's only deteriorated over

the past year and a half.

The AC has never been fixed since the hurricane. >> It's been b we've had a couple of band-aid fixes and then finally the condenser has finally gone out and they said that all that's left to be done now is to >> um >> So you got to put a new heat and air unit on it and you need a new deck.

>> Correct. >> And that's what we need.

>> Correct. >> Okay. And the deck has been that way for two years and the heat and air unit just finally gave up the ghost after some band-aids. So, uh, have you gotten three or four bids on the heat and air unit?

>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

>> What do those bids look like? What do they look like?

>> Yeah, you're we're averaging 10,000 11,000 uh just depending on what the uh

you know, what the type of the the air unit is? >> Yeah. And uh and what's your household income, sir?

>> We're at about 175,000 between my wife and I. >> Okay. So, why can you not come up with 10 grand making 175,000?

>> Well, the the the reason why is because

since the hurricane, we've had so we've had two major life events in the past couple of years. So, one, my grandfather passed, which um anyways, we had some

major uh some major expenses come out of that. Unfortunately, we've also had some just uh mal money management. So, we are

currently in debt. uh what we've truly

never have been as far as credit card debt goes. >> So, how much debt do you have? >> We've got we've got about $30,000 in

debt right now. >> So, why can you not come up with $10,000 with $30,000 in debt making 175 grand?

>> $175,000, man. Really? >> I mean, are you taking home 10 grand a month?

>> Uh, no. We So after after all our taxes

are taken out, our takehome is probably about um I want to say maybe about six

5,000. >> No, it's not. >> You're taking home 72 out of 175.

>> No, there's not $100,000 worth of taxes.

>> Nope. Nope. Are you putting money in your 401k?

>> No. No, we stopped that when >> How much is your How much is your Are you taking health insurance out? What else is coming out of your check?

>> Yep. So, health insurance is coming out.

Um, so we do owe on our on two vehicles

>> out of your check. >> Uh, I'm sorry. My apologies. I'm just I'm

pointing out the monthly expenses.

>> I'm talking about what hits your bank account. >> Here's the thing. $175,000.

That's $15,000

a month.

Okay, you with me?

>> Yep. minus taxes, you should be coming home with 12.

And 12 minus your house payment, you should be able to save up 10 grand and fix your heat and air. But you guys are just running in circles chasing your tail instead of getting on a system and making these these dollars behave as you said, mal handling, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. And so, uh, you got that that's how you ended up with $30,000 in debt.

Um, I'm sorry your grandfather passed, but that didn't cost you any money,

did it?

>> Um, well, the overnight um travel for

the family and just the day >> a few hundred a few hundred bucks or something, but it really wasn't I mean, it's not >> it was it was heartbreaking and it's tragic. I don't I'm not not diminishing that, but we don't confuse those things with the math impact. So, you make enough money to have cleaned up this mess long ago. And that's what you should do.

You should cash flow the heating and air. And then you should begin to work on paying down your debt and talking about putting together some money to fix the deck and uh out of your monthly income.

are you getting a big tax refund every year?

>> Yes. >> Okay. I thought you might be. So, you probably need to look at that. You probably have too much coming out of your check and you're getting it back at the end of the year.

>> Correct. We uh I we we claim zero.

>> Okay. What was your refund this year?

>> This year being the biggest one that's it's it's been. Yeah. This year was about nine 9,000.

>> Okay. >> Where did that go?

>> So we we we still have it in in a in a savings. >> So you can almost cash flow the AC unit.

So, use it to buy a heat and air unit.

Why are you getting approved for loans?

>> Well, this one was through the SBA.

>> The loan. >> So, correct.

>> I don't care what it's through. I don't care if it's through your mama. You don't need a loan. You have the money in your bank account to buy heating and air.

Go fix the heating and air and start

getting the money that you have coming into the house. And you need to change your take-home pay by $700

a month now. And and that's the minimum you need to change it by. So that'll at least that. And go in and change your go in tomorrow at work. Tell payroll you need an extra $700 a month coming out of your check. Pull the money out of your savings. Order a heat and air unit. Call the guy and tell him if it's cash, what's the discount?

Because I'm going to give you cash. like Benjamin's. What's the discount? And I

want a discount. I want you to get over here and get this thing fixed now. Then I want you to get four bids on the deck.

And I want you to find some guy at your church that's looking for work that knows how to build decks and get him to build the deck for you at a deal. And he gets work and you get to use some money to do that. And you got $700 a month now

to put towards fixing that deck. And then you start getting rid of these credit cards. You get them out and chop them up. So you just got to sit down by the way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time. You list these different things out that are going on and you fix them one. Fix that one. Then fix that one.

Then fix that one. Then fix that one.

And you've been very passive and stood back and all of this has happened to you and you're being a perpetual freaking victim. And you need to stop it, man.

It's killing you. I mean, I talked to you for seven, eight minutes before you finally revealed to me you have the money in your savings account to buy your heating and air. You buried the lead. That's how screwed up your brain is right now. So, dig into this stuff,

man. Dig into it and get it laid out like it was your job because it is your job. That's what you got to do. Anna is in New York. Hey, Anna. What's up?

>> Hey, George and Dave. Very excited to be speaking to you guys today. So, I

recently learned earlier today that my husband um was hiding. I would say

hiding um not being fully honest with $40,000 worth of credit card debt and I

am unsure how to proceed in both our

relationship and paying it off.

>> Wow, you're being very calm. [laughter]

>> I'm trying.

>> Is he alive?

>> Why did he do this? Let him out of the closet, Anna. You can't lock him in the closet. That's illegal. [laughter]

Oh my gosh. Wow. Well, you rebuild trust

one brick at a time by being trustworthy.

>> And so, it's not instantaneous and it's not a system and there's not a switch you flip. >> So, he has violated trust.

>> Whether he did it because of shame and didn't want to tell you about it or deception, which is even worse. Either

way, >> I think it's the former. >> Yeah. Either way, he he you know, he he

regains trust by being extremely transparent. Both of you getting on the same page and every single transaction

is in front of both of you for the rest of your lives. And then you sit down and you go, "Okay, with our income, how are we going to pay off this $40 freaking thousand? We're going to cut up the stupid card and we're going to attack it and knock it out as fast as we possibly can.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

[music]

Well, we love debtfree screams. We love debtree screams on the debtree stage in the Ramsay Solutions

lobby. We especially love them when it's our own team members. So, Gabe is with us. Gabe Fox is a copywriter here at Ramsey Solutions. Been with us for a whole year over in the Ramsey Trusted area. And he's up here to do his debtree scream. Did I get all that right, Gabe?

>> That's correct. Absolutely.

>> Very cool. So, when you moved here, did you move here from somewhere else? >> I did. Yeah. >> From where? >> From Texas. >> All right. And you came here to take this job? >> I did. Yes, sir. >> Okay. And how much debt did you have?

>> Uh, I had $26,469.

Okay. And that's been one year you paid it off then? >> Uh 21 months. >> 21 months. Okay. So, since you've been here, it's been half of that roughly.

Yeah. >> Okay. Cool. Very cool. And we don't ask incomes on team members cuz he's got 50 of his friends that work with him standing around here. Don't make it weird. Not fair and awkward. Okay. So, anyway, uh what kind of debt was the

26,000? >> Completely student loans. >> Okay. And your degree is in >> uh it's called integrated studies with a minor in business. So, okay. Very good.

Perfect for being a copywriter at Ramsey Trusted. That's right. No question. Good. Okay. So, before you came here,

>> had you just graduated? Is that what the 21 months is or >> No, I moved home for a year. Graduated in 2024. Moved back to Texas for a year and then I moved here. >> Okay. All right. And so, this was your second job, I guess, after college then.

>> Correct. Okay. Cool. And uh so how did

because you started this get out of debt process a year before you came to work here. >> Correct. I did. And how did you find Ramsay at that point?

>> So I graduated in 2024, moved back home

to uh work a copywriting job for a Christian TV network back there. Um and right before graduating, uh one of my buddies sitting over there. Um he was like, "Dude, uh this I was just becoming familiar with Ramsay. I'd heard about FPU and a few other books.

Um and he's like, "Dude, I I think that might be something that you should take." And I'm [snorts] like, "Honestly, I think you're right." So signed up for it, started taking it. It fired me up. Started >> financial piece. >> Correct.

Okay. Went to Financial Peace University. Correct. Had freshly graduated from college.

>> Right. Yeah. Literally like two weeks later bought it and started taking it.

>> Wow. Okay. And so from then on, there's no looking back. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz once we suck you into that portal, you're going to do it. >> Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. [laughter] And then once you got here, did it put things into high gear for you? What what changed once you landed at Ramsay?

>> Lots of shaming. We shame them.

>> We shame them at length until they pay off their We don't even hire you unless you're debtree and I should tell them that's a lie. >> Lots of guilt tripping. No, I'm I'm being sarcastic. There's a lot of encouragement really, isn't there?

>> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. My whole team was encouraging me. They they knew where I was at.

My whole onboarding team walked me walked me through this and encouraged me to do the debtree scream and uh it was just so encouraging to have people alongside me that that one had their own stories.

it with me daily and and catching up with me and and and taking me to the end. Very cool. So, other than the Ramsay team that you sit with every day, who was cheering you on? >> Um, I've got four friends over here.

Um, yeah, went to college with two of them and they were with they were with me from the very beginning. Um, when I realized, >> guys, I've got 26 grand to pay off.

Um, [snorts] and they were they just sat set me sat me down and set me straight and said, "Guys," or "Gabe, this is this is the time to deal with this." Um, and I said, "You know what? You're right." So, decided to do it.

>> Boom. Game on. I love it. So, mom and dad cheering you on, too, I'm sure.

>> 100%. Yeah. They let me live at home for a year and um I mean, that freed up so

much money for me to send to the debt.

Um, so massive shout out to them. It was such a generous offer. >> Very cool. Very cool. Good to for you, man. And then you have been here a year and finished off the thing 21 months total for $26,000.

Okay. Now you write copy for Ramsey Trusted. Which area in Ramsey Trusted?

Which >> protections. >> Protections. Okay. So for insurance, >> correct? >> For those of you that don't know, out there. And uh so you're kind of immersed in this stuff every day. But now when you're personally doing this and your buddy from college calls up and says, "Hey, what's the secret? What did you do to get out of debt? What do you tell them? >> That's a great question. Um, I think the

idea of ownership, just realizing that this is mine to deal with. Um, I could look away and I could just act like it's not there for 30 years and and look back and it's grown to be much larger than it was in the first place. Um, or I can decide that I have a decision um, an opportunity to transform my family tree, my family's financial legacy. Um, both

are hard. Both are hard in different ways. Um, but [snorts] I think hard things are worth doing and this was a hard thing worth doing. I decided that um this decision is going to change my life forever and um just deciding that

uh taking ownership is is so worth it.

Um that would be a message that I would share with anybody teaching them to take ownership. >> Okay, so for all you people out there that when I say there's awesome Gen Z's and a bunch of them work here, you just heard it. Okay, you just heard it. That was a complete mic drop.

That's a good hire right there. >> That's a complete I see myself in your story, Gabe, cuz when I started here, I was 23, 36 grand in student loan debt, >> and we did good to get a continuous sentence out of you. >> That's true. I was I was a on the struggle.

>> Gab's a stud from day one. It took me a while to to blossom, but I just [laughter] I love that story cuz I go, okay, he's on this trajectory to be a baby steps millionaire now, probably in your 30s if you continue down this path or sooner. And so it just encourages me that we're going to see a whole new generation of of Gabes who go, I'm not going to wait on the government or student loan forgiveness or make it someone else's problem. I'm going to look in the mirror and go, I can clean this up.

>> I own this. I'm not a victim. >> Yeah. And in 21 months, it's done.

And you decided it's my job.

>> Yeah. Amen. Amen. Well done, sir.

>> Thank you. >> Very proud of you. The gang is very proud of you. >> Got a few hundred people. No one's Is anybody working anymore, Dave? >> Does anybody work here anymore?

[laughter] They all come out and watch Debtree Screams. I love it. Gabe Fox, copywriter for protections and Ramsey Trust, had been with us for the last year. But 21 months ago, he started Financial Peace University, started the process, and he's now paid off $26,000.

Debt-free Gen Z, ready to rock and roll.

Count it down. Let's hear a great debtree scream. 3 2 1 I'm de free.

[screaming] >> YEAHOOP.

>> The crowd goes wild. >> Yeah, [applause] that's pretty cool, >> man. I loved his answer. Ownership. Own

it. I did it. I got to fix it. I own it.

Personal responsibility. you you call it whatever you want to call it, but I mean that at any age once you look in the mirror and you go, you're the freaking problem and you're the solution. Your life has changed. But until you look in the mirror and you say that to you, you're going to struggle the rest of your life. And getting people to do this at any age group, that's an emotional maturity, a spiritual maturity that that

is necessary to be uh to be other I mean

to to just have a worldclass impact on things. >> Yeah. I mean, if he can do this with money, now he's going, I can take ownership in every other area of my life. And so, it really gives you agency maybe for the first time to go, I can affect change in every other area.

That's encouraging. >> I'm I'm not going to wait 30 years to pay off my student loans. I'm not going to wait on the government or Biden to forgive my student loan debt. I'm not going to just just knock it out. Just draw back and smack it in the head, man.

Just go, you going down. I own you. You

don't own me. And when you get that going, you get that thing going. You understand? The borrower is slave to the lender. And I don't need any more masters. I am so done with masters. I'm so done with people telling me freaking what to do. What's in your wallet? Jump off a cliff. I don't want to care what's in my wallet. What's in your wallet?

Millions of dollars for doing them stupid ads. That's what's in your wallet. So, no. We don't want We don't want to listen to some broke actor. This is not No, no, no, no. I'm not living like this anymore. Not Ford Motor Company. Keep it. We don't need a payment, you know. No, no. It changes

everything when you take that ownership. I love this guy. >> Yeah. When you have that level of focus, just for a short time in an ADD culture, you'll be shocked at how far it'll take you.

Just being focused on one thing at one time. You will get so much done and be so successful. >> Yeah. But it starts with this idea of just spiritual ownership.

And Gabe Gabe nailed it. So proud of you, Gabe. >> I love it, man. Glad you're on the team, >> man.

We are. We're definitely proud of you. Glad you're here. Yes.

Yes.

Yes, this is how it works, ladies and gentlemen.

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey, what's up guys? Guys, it's Jade Warshaw. Listen, summer spending adds up so fast between vacations and road trips and camp fees and events and all the extra gas and grocery runs. Money can get tight before you know it. To really get your money under control and keep it that way, you're going to need a plan.

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[music]

Our [music]

[music] scripture today, 2 Corinthians 4:8 and9.

We are hardpressed on every side, but not crushed, perplexed, but not in despair. Persecuted, but not abandoned, struck down, but not destroyed. Artha

Franklin said, "It's the rough side of the mountain that's the easiest to climb. The smooth side doesn't have anything for you to hang on to, [laughter] >> which makes a good point. >> Not bad. Not bad. Hey, the right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and if your wallet and your wallet if disaster strikes. Our free

insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan with clear next steps.

ramseysolutions.com/checkup is where you go to get the free coverage checkup and be sure you do that.

Ramseysolutions.com/checkup.

Andrew is in San Francisco. Hi Andrew.

How are you? >> Hi. Good. How's it going Dave?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. Good. Just uh kind of calling about a issue I got myself into. A little bit of a backstory.

Um about 2 three years ago I put myself in a bit of a hole. Um, I had a very good financial year for myself and then I lost someone who meant very much to me, a good friend. I decided then to take the money that I had after becoming debtree and buying a car. You know, they went the spoil myself route to feel better.

month, not including insurance and the rest. I also have about $5,900 in credit

card debt included with about $7,000 in

personal loans debt. And I have a baby

coming up that is due in August.

>> Cool. How long you been married?

>> I am not married. >> Okay. What does your uh fiance make?

>> Um she's actually a stay-at-home mom.

>> Okay. All right. And how old are you?

>> 23 years old. >> Okay. One more time, tell me what did what you make.

>> I make $83,000 a year gross.

>> Doing sums up to about I work in I work

in sales. >> Okay. All right. Cool. All right. Fun.

Okay. Um well, you're probably going to get a little more than you asked for on this call. Um but I'm going to try to love you well. If if you were uh my son

is 10 years older than you, but if you were my kid, here's what I would tell you. Okay? The data tells us that people

that are married and work together have higher net worths

and higher income and live longer than people who are not. This is statistical data. Okay? So when we study millionaires, we find almost none of them shacked up.

Almost all of them are married is what

we find. That's the data. Okay? So it's a financial advantage, a relational advantage, um an advantage for your child, a legal advantage for your wife

because she has some protections then.

And so I'm my first recommendation to you would be to get married Saturday.

That's my first recommendation. Okay. To help you move forward and build your family and let's go from here. Then you've got 5900 in credit card debt and

34,000 on a car and you make 83. Is that

your only debts?

>> Those are my only debts along with the credit card debt. Uh yeah, credit card debt, personal loans, which was $7,000

and the car loan. >> Okay. 47 total. Who Who are the personal

loans to?

>> Me. >> Okay. No, I mean, who are they? Who'd you borrow them from?

>> Oh, um, it was an online company called Upstart.

>> Oh, crap. So, this is like a payday lender type thing.

>> Uh, not necessarily.

>> It's crappy interest rate. Yeah, >> it's horrible interest rate. >> Yeah, that's the one I remember. Okay. >> What's the car worth?

>> Car is worth an estimated of about $30,000. So, I've already looked into getting rid of it. I'm about $4,000 upside down.

>> Okay. Good. Good. Okay. So, I think I

would scratch up the $4,000 first, pay

minimum payments on the other stuff.

Let's get rid of the car and get you a 2 or $3,000 car that you pay cash for.

Getting rid of that car mistake does two things. One, um, obviously the

mathematics are horrible. The interest rate and all of that, the payments crazy, all that stuff, it's dra it's dragging you down. But the other thing is that car is tied to pain. It's tied

to psychological trauma for you. So every time you get in it, every time you write a check for it, you know, I got ripped off because my heart was broken and I made a bad decision. And it's a reminder of that. I'd want that reminder out of my life. Am I right?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And with that, an $800 a month raise.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, the first thing I'm going to do is pay minimums or just quit paying the $7,000. I don't care. Doesn't matter to me. But I I want you to get rid of the car by scratching up $4,000 working overtime. You got anything you can sell? Do you have any money saved?

>> Um I don't have any money saved. I've been trying to work continuously to save up a little bit extra money on the side.

Um how old is the baby?

>> The baby isn't here yet, luckily. So, we're due in August. >> Oh, great. Okay. So, you can get married before that. That's even better. Okay.

That's that's very helpful to the data.

Okay, good. Um, yeah. Uh, well, I mean,

anything she can do to earn money until

the baby comes, I know she's in her third trimester. I'm not trying to put her in the salt mines, but if anything she could do to earn money, it adds flavor to this, right? Cuz here's the deal. If the faster we get rid of this car, we got 800 bucks. And then the two of us sit down, we do a tight budget, we work what we and then all we got to do is just, you know, knock out like 10 15,000 bucks and you can do that in a few months.

>> Yes. >> Cuz most of this debt isn't tied up in this car. >> Think about what it would be like to get to Christmas and have zero debt,

>> man. It would feel good.

>> Yeah, that's what I want for you. And a new baby and a new wife. Life is good.

I'm smiling right now. Now we're moving forward. I like this a lot. And you've learned your lesson at 23 to never go on one of these ripoff interest rate personal loan sites. Like you got screwed and you got screwed on the car, too.

>> Yes, I did. It was a very bad decision that I've made. >> The good news is you got the whole rest of your life to never get screwed again because now you know what it looks like.

You go, I'm not signing up for that. I don't care what you do. You can do whatever you want to do. I'm not signing up for that.

You can have a gun. I'm not signing up for that ever. Again, I'm not going to let myself get screwed ever again. you you got a beautiful life ahead of you.

Only 23. I went broke when I was 28 and filed bankruptcy. I've had a beautiful life since then because I learned a lot of stupid but stuff about myself during that time and I there's a lot of stuff I never do again. You know, you got a great thing going here.

I'm so proud of you, young man. You're going to be great. This is going to be so good for you. All right.

>> Oo, [laughter] so kind. >> I'm going to give you a copy of George's book. >> Oh, perfect. Happy to give that away.

and a copy of the Total Money Makeover book since you and I are the ones that took the call. And the baby's going to have a mommy and a daddy and they make $85,000 a year and he's 23 years old and

he's going to get rid of people screwing him. All these car companies, >> all these payday lender types on what was it? Upstart. Upstart Chris.

>> Yeah, Upstart just had 30 million people

say you suck. Upstart, I hope you heard that. We just told 30 million people you suck. You screwed a 23 year old kid and

you deserve for everybody in America.

>> I bet they're marketing is like we're the lifeline. We'll give you the financial marketing is like we suck but come do it anyway. We'll screw you but come see us anyway. That's their marketing line. Just it's like like SoFi, right? Yeah. We have a stadium.

Who do you think paid for that? Yeah.

>> You and your and you and you and you.

They are people that we help. Yes. We're helpful. That's what we are. Oh man, I tell you what, the villains are the villains are run a muck in this cartoon.

>> Well, it's funny. The the villains will happily show up in your life when you're so desperate and they'll act like they're the hero. >> That's the scary part. >> We're here to help. >> You'll get an Instagram ad going, "Oh, finally relief is here." No, that's not relief. That's 600% interest on your

payday loan. [laughter and clears throat] >> Relief is when I get Upstart out of

>> Unless you're selling hemorrhoid cream.

We don't want relief name. You people ought to be I bet your mother's ashamed of you if you work at Upstart. Oh my gosh. Wow. Hey, hang on. Uh Andrew, we're going to give you a couple wedding gifts and congratulations on your wedding this weekend.

[laughter] >> That's exciting. I love that Dave just planned the wedding for you. The man should be in the wedding planning business. >> Totally assumptive clothes. Yes. No question about it. >> I wonder how many people you've convinced to get married that otherwise wouldn't have. That's a beautiful thing.

>> It's a wonderful thing. >> And you're not even ordained, I don't think. >> Not yet. You never know. You never know.

a lot of things, but that's not one of them. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 60. Financial Pain Creates Real Change | June 1, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw this hour and we're taking your calls for free.88255225.

And as Dave says, some say the advice is worth what you paid for it. >> A lovely riddle. >> We'll see how it goes today. Jonathan kicks us off in Orlando. Jonathan, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Uh, how you doing? >> Doing well. >> Um,

I have uh a question. I had gotten myself in a big mess where I'm actually

where I actually had to force well actually forced the uh credit card company to sue me. You forced them to sue you >> by not paying.

>> Uh not paying. Um every time I s sign

the agreement and set up a payment plan,

I changed my numbers and bank accounts and they never hear from me again.

>> Why were you scamming like that?

Uh, well, it all started with American Express back in August 2023 where I paid

off all my American Express cards and requested my uh close my account

and they did all except for one card.

They returned a payment. They kept the

uh they kept the minimum payment and

they told me I was no longer el eligible to pay that card off in full because they just jacked the interest rates up to 49% on them.

>> Okay, I'm struggling to find a question in here. How can we help today? Uh, so

my question would be, uh, because I tried different, uh, lawyers and whatnot and they all told me that chapter 7 would probably be the best way out of it.

>> How much credit card debt do you have?

>> Uh, about 49,000.

>> Okay. And I just want to make sure I understood I ma made sure I understood.

You did you say that American Express

would not allow you to pay the full balance? Is that what I heard you say?

Yes, they told me that uh this was right

after when they declared the pandemic over >> and I they jacked the interest up on all

my cards to up above 49%. So I called

them and I asked them why and see if I can get them back down to 19% where they was originally and it's like they told me no that was a federal going rate.

>> Okay. >> And uh >> Right. Okay. I understand they jacked the interest up, but I I I want clarity on the payment. You said that you couldn't pay it off. They would not allow you to pay it off. Is that simply because they made the interest so high you felt it was impossible, or was there something somebody was restricting you on the phone from making a payment?

>> No, I I I sent in the payment

twice.

The first time they sent it back, they

kept the minimum payment and I had received the letters and they said they could not validate where my funds came from.

>> So there is one of the reasons that that might happen would be if your account's been frozen or closed or if you're under

fraud or review and or if there's suspicious activity. And if what you're saying is you were constantly changing your, you know, address and constantly, that might be a reason. I don't know.

>> No. Uh, this was, uh, this was after after they returned my payments cuz, uh,

it's been it's been two years where the

debt collector has been coming after me.

>> So, where are you at in the lawsuit? Has there been a judgment against you?

>> Uh, not yet. They just they just filed

and the same debt collector just went

and bought the other credit cards and they're getting ready to file the other on the other seven.

>> Okay. How much money do you make?

>> I make roughly 70,000 a year.

>> And do you have any assets or money to your name right now?

>> Uh no. >> Is this the only debt?

>> The 49,000.

>> I uh No. I got a house. Uh, got two

cars.

>> Those both have loans on them.

>> Yeah. >> What are the loans on the cars?

>> Uh, one's, uh, like 29,000. The other

one's $7,000.

>> Do you need both cars?

>> I need one.

>> Could we sell the one that has a $29,000 loan on it?

Uh, actually that one I can't can't

sail. >> Are you upside down?

>> Uh, it's not upside down. At the time I

purchased when I ordered the truck in

2023.

>> Well, what's it worth today? You owe 29.

What's it worth today?

>> Uh, today Kelly Blue Book value has it

right at 195. So you're 10,000

underwater.

Yeah.

>> Uh, and that's it. There's no other personal loans, helocks, anything else that we should be privy to?

>> No. >> Okay. Is it just you or do you have a wife, kids?

>> Uh, wife.

>> Uh, one of the biggest problems I've

been trying to get uh been trying to send them payments and all that to this debt collector, but the more I pay them, the greedier they get. And >> well, I don't think they're getting greedy. I think they want their money.

Um, and they, don't get me wrong, they they have horrible ways of showing that.

But the truth is, you owe this money.

And all of the backstory and getting up to this point, I think if we spend too much time thinking about all of that, it's just going to cloud uh our our our

intentions going forward. So, today, what we're looking at is $49,000 of credit card debt. The past doesn't matter. We're looking at 29,000 a $29,000 vehicle that we're $10,000 upside down on and another $7,000 vehicle with $70,000 of income. Is your wife working at all?

>> No, she's not working. We just got married in in April and

uh we haven't been able to get We're waiting for the attorneys to file her adjustment of status.

>> Is she not legally allowed to work in the states?

>> Right. Until the adjustment of status is done. Got you. Okay. How old are you guys?

>> I'm 45. She's 44.

>> Okay. So, the the solution to this

problem isn't filing bankruptcy. The

solution to this problem is you taking 100% control and and responsibility for

what's gone on here over the past several years. The truth is you've lived a lifestyle that's above what you earn.

and you earn $70,000 a year and uh you've got car loans you can't afford.

For whatever reason, you've racked up almost $50,000 of credit card debt. And that's the truth. So, getting out of this is going to require you raising your income in multiple ways. And it's going to require you lowering your expenses in multiple ways. None of which are going to be comfortable or fun uh in

any way, shape, or form. But it is going to be comfortable and fun once you're out of the debt. So the only way out of this is debt snowball it and you know if the credit card debts are old enough eventually you might be able to settle for a little less than what's owed but if you owe it and you can pay it let's just make a plan to get this done. I mean going into 49 grand of credit card debt tells me there's been a couple of years of buying some toys living high on the hog and now it's time to face the face the numbers face reality and get on a plan with your wife.

even though she doesn't have an income right now, she's involved with this because some of the spending is going to be from both of you.

>> Yeah. And we didn't ask you about your mortgage, but I can tell you if your mortgage is more than 25% of that 4,800

take-home pay that you probably have, that's probably one of the first things on the chopping block. >> Yeah. And bankruptcy is not a quick fix.

It will destroy your financial life, stay on your credit report for 10 years, make it hard to rent an apartment, get jobs, all of that. So, I would not go down that path.

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Anna is in Nashville just down the road up next. What's going on Anna?

>> Are you with us?

>> Yes. >> How you doing? >> I'm a single mom of good. How are you?

>> Good.

>> I'm a single mom of two and I'm self-employed and I have $28,000 in

credit card debt right now. So all of the payments are current, but the interest in debt is really hard to manage.

>> Is that your only debts? Is it 28K?

>> Yes. >> Okay. What's your income?

>> It varies because I'm self-employed. So some months it's quite good and other months it's slower. So I'm creating some supplemental income >> through side work or what?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. What's give me an average month.

>> Um, an average month this year has been really low because I've been taking some business courses and um, furthering my education, but some months I was making 3,000 a month and other months I was making very little. >> So 3,000 is like the top end.

>> What kind of work is it?

>> Um, I'm a practitioner. So, I started my

own business to support women and children with anxiety. Um, but I basically left an abusive marriage.

Started my whole life over again. Left the state. >> Okay. >> Um, paid off old bills like on the

credit card. It's old bills he wouldn't pay. Attorney's fees.

>> Got it. >> And then rebuilding my life to create a business where I could work from home.

>> Okay. How old are the kids?

>> Um, they're now 13 and 16.

>> Okay. So, in school and you have full custody.

>> I do have full custody now.

>> Okay. Um I I think the struggle is

coming from the 3,000 a month, which it

sounds like on many months it's less than that. I think that's where a lot of the struggle is. You said you're doing some uh supplemental work. What are you earning? What are you doing and earning from that work?

Um I'm just starting to pick up more and more work because before I could the reason why some of the early months were low is I was just in survival mode.

>> Sure. >> You know, leaving leaving that place and

then trying to help my kids and so I wasn't >> at my best capacity from now going forward. >> How long ago was building and putting more out there? >> How long ago did you leave?

>> I left four years ago. It took two years to get the divorce and I had no support for two years. >> Understood. So you're you're back on your feet. We'll say maybe two years back on your feet. But back to the other question. What is the supplemental work that you're doing and what are you earning from it?

>> Um I just started some of the supplemental work. So I'm doing you know like some dog walking walking pet sitting on the side.

>> Dog walking pet sitting. Do I mean you've just started I realize that. And by the way no one we're just trying to get information. Um, no shame in any game. I did do walk, dog walking and petzing. I did all that, too, when I was getting out of debt. So, don't don't feel bad about saying what it is and don't feel bad about saying the amounts.

The more details you give us, the more it'll help us help you out. So, just getting started on that. What do you what are you able to bring in uh on dog walking today and what do you think you can get it to?

>> I just started. So, literally, we have

our like first customer. I try to pick something I could do with my kids. So, I mean, we're looking at >> I love that. >> Um, >> you know, four days it's going to be a couple hundred dollar.

>> Okay, great. Okay. >> Um, but I can also work from home while I'm doing that. >> Okay, so you get a client for if they're gone for a weekend, you think you can make $200 or $300 off of that.

I love that. I think it's a great thing to be able to do with the kids. Uh, I wonder though with 13 and 16 year olds, do you need to do your job with the kids?

don't involve them being available to go with you. And that might free you up a little bit. Fair.

>> Exactly. And that's why I'm building my business right now. I'm able to Before I was doing one-on- ones with clients.

>> Uhhuh. >> Um and so now I'm broadening it so it's a little more affordable for other people. I help other people who went through trauma. Right.

>> I want to challenge you on this though.

And and this is I'm being your buddy right now. This is not me trying to jam you. This is me trying to be your buddy.

>> What you're earning from this side hustle consistently from from your business equates to a side hustle. It's not a full-time business yet. I want you to keep doing it because you're clearly passionate about it and you have a point of view because you've lived it. But today, I would love to see you go out into the world and get a job that can earn you double that. because I think that you're worth it and I think that you have that to offer and it'll help you break free of this debt.

>> Yeah, you need stability right now and right now this the business it's great but it this feels like ministry that you could get paid for long term but let's make that gravy on top when we're not working full-time 40 hours a week.

Do you have health insurance right now?

>> I have tenure. >> Okay. So, the focus is going to be let's

get this income up because without that it's going to be hard to even keep up with the credit card payments. What are the minimum payments every month on this 28k?

>> Well, there's two separate cards and the minimum payments equal about $700.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, the goal is going to be what is the smallest balance of of the two cards?

>> Um roughly under $11,000

>> and then the other one's about 17.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, our goal is going to be to chip away at that smaller 11,000 one.

And I mean, if you put a,000 bucks toward it a month, you'd be done in around 11 months. So, about a year.

>> So, that's just the napkin math to show you, you know, how long it's going to take, how fast you can move, depending on how much margin you have. So, that's the name of the game here. We're talking about your income, we're talking about your expenses, and the gap between that, hopefully there is one, is called your margin. >> And that's what's going to allow you to get out of this debt fast.

Normally, it takes people 18 to 24 months.

>> right? I mean, when I'm saying it was just continuing education and so I have everything that I need right now. It's just a matter of more visibility and getting myself out there more.

>> That's true. >> Get the clients. I get really good money. The truth is Anna though that there is a horizon on building that for

anybody who's starting a business. There is a horizon for creating uh a

reasonable client base that's dependable that you know you're going to earn. And so for that reason, no one is saying don't do it. No one is saying uh you know it's not worth it. We we believe in that and we love that. However, a lot of times you have to do something full-time while you're building the business.

While my husband and I were building our entertainment business, I still had to go and do gigs and perform and do a lot of the things that I didn't really want to do, but that's where the steady money was. And so, I had to do both at the same time for a while until the business that I really wanted to do took over and could earn me what I what we needed uh in order to pay off our debt and sustain our life. So, that I I just really want you to hear that. I agree with George and and this is for the broader audience.

When you are about the business of paying off debt, you need focused intensity. All right? You can't do a bunch of things at once because something's going to suffer. You can't work on school, work on the business, pay three cards at the same time.

You have to pick one goal and focus all of your intensity and all of your margin and all of your efforts at that one goal. Even if it feels silly to say, "Well, I'm just focused on paying $2,000 off on this credit card right now." You will be shocked, George. You know this, how quickly you will pay something off when you put all of your effort towards it. >> You got to get the blinders on.

I would pause school. I would try to go for a full-time job while you double down on these side gigs. And if you have clients currently, that's great, and you can still try to find some more. But right now, I would not be just so focused on growing the business because that's going to take your efforts away from debt payoff, side gigs on top of everything else you've got going on.

>> Yeah. And you're going to have to invest some of what you're earning back into that business to grow it.

>> So, I hope this business grows. I hope you call us back, you know, a couple years from now and say, "I'm debtree.

The business is flourishing." Because to help others, you've got to do it from this place of strength. And right now, >> you're in a tough spot. And I love this passion you have to help others who have been through the same situation. But Jay's right.

You need to charge what you're worth right now. You can't just make it more affordable. That that's generosity. And generosity takes abundance to be generous.

It's an overflow. And so I hope you get there. I love your heart for this. And we're hoping that you can knock out these two debts using the debt snowball method.

I saw on the screen something about debt consolidation. >> Don't love that. Let's not make this into one giant mountain just to save 40 bucks a month on our payment. The factor in this is you.

>> Yes, >> that wouldn't hurt. >> Yes. >> Little work ethic.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw.

Open phones at88255225.

We were just talking about margin jade and it's hard to find if you don't know where to look and you don't have a good app to help you along the way and it's why I love every dollar. It's more than just our budgeting app now. And here's a great quote from one of our fans. Love this app.

Makes it super easy to budget with my husband. We've implemented this practice since our wedding day. We've had zero money fights because there's full transparency and we're on the same page. >> I love it.

Still fights but no money fights. >> Yes.

Good. If there's no fights, I question the marriage. I go >> not being real. Yeah. Mhm.

>> But money fights I could do without.

That's fantastic. So, if you want to check out Every Dollar, you can get it in the app store or Google Play.

Download it today if you want to find that margin. Paula is in Boston up next.

What's going on, Paula? >> Hi there. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can Jade and I help?

>> Okay. So, I have two daughters. Well, my husband and I have two daughters. They are ages 9 and 12. And we are in a really neat place where we're about to move from baby step two to baby step seven, which is the last one, right? You said seven. >> Yeah. >> Can I ask what happened?

>> Well, it's kind of a a mixed emotion.

So, we live in a very high cost area and

my husband um has a line of duty injury

from the military and a line of duty injury from law enforcement here.

>> So, he's going to be getting double um

pension. well pension and then uh military retirement as well. And because

of the high cost of living here, we are actually selling our well, we're looking to sell our home here and then purchase in a lower cost of living area and the home will be cash.

>> Wow, that's a blessing >> and thank you for his his sacrifice and service. >> Wow, thank you so much. He's right here.

I'll pass it along to him.

>> Wow. Okay, so baby step two to baby step seven just like that.

Yeah, a lot of work in between, but yeah, essentially it'll it'll happen pretty quickly. Um, God willing. But we

have two daughters. They're 9 and 11.

And because of his veteran status, um,

we're wondering whether to invest in a 529 for our daughters. As a 100%

disabled, as dependents of 100% disabled veterans, they're eligible for yellow ribbon schools and to use the remainder of his GI Bill. So sometimes it's half and half, sometimes it just depends on what the funding is, but it's very likely that many colleges within the United States, they could go to them for free. That's awesome. >> So we >> Yeah. Yeah. So we just we want to make a wise decision and support them, but we also, you know, want to enjoy our money and not kind of put it away without necessity.

>> Yeah. I would this would weigh into my into how I invest for school. I think knowing that this is there um I'm not sure what all would be covered. Does it include just tuition or is it room and board and all those other things? Do you know? >> I believe it's just tuition.

>> Okay. Um I might invest a reasonable

like a smaller amount of money in a 529 knowing that okay, if they go to a 4-year, they're going to need books. They're probably going to, you know, maybe they're going to want to live on campus, that sort of thing. A meal plan.

Um I just wouldn't overly fund it. And

there's calculators out there that you can use, but just something to keep in mind. um the 529, whatever money that's

left in there, not all, but up to an uh

up to $35,000, I believe, per child can

be rolled over into a Roth IRA if they

don't use it. So, knowing that is kind of helpful. Also knowing that that money could pass to other siblings or other family members uh is also I don't know if you would have anybody or if you or your husband has any need to hire your education but those are good things to kind of keep in mind um as you fund that and what amount that you put into that.

>> Okay. So if there's money left over that amount can go into the Roth but then what happens to the rest of it if it's not used? You can pass it on, change the beneficiary any time to even grandkids or I mean there's a worst case scenario where you can just use the money.

There's just a 10% penalty.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> So, it's not like you can't touch it. Just know anything be beyond the 35,000.

Uh yeah, 10% which is not fun, but at least you're getting to your money. >> So, it's not going to just disappear. But I would do a lot of homework on this cuz there's still a little bit of a fingers crossed not knowing, you know, all the ins and outs, the fine print of this because I, my understanding, the GI Bill can only be used at one time for one person or the benefit split, which means it's, you know, half a benefit each.

>> Yeah. There's certain schools throughout the United States, like I know Liberty University is 100 like it has the G. So

it's a yellow ribbon school, so they pay 100% of the tuition.

>> Wow. >> So anything that's left over for additional So some schools will say 50% for yellow ribbon, the other 50% is a GI

bill. So we would just encourage them to go to a yellow ribbon school.

>> Yeah, understood. Okay. >> And again, there's a fingers crossed there cuz >> can you force your kid? I hope. But maybe they go, "No, mom. I want to go across the country to XYZ school because of this program or a boyfriend." And then they were like, >> "Listen, okay, I I have to speak on this cuz Paula, if that happens, the answer is no. >> You're on your own, kid. >> You're on your own, kid." >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

>> And that's where the conversation's happening early and often to where those kids know exactly where you guys stand.

They know exactly how to go to school debtree if they so choose. And I hope they choose that. But again, the 529 plan is a great backup plan to have because you can use it for so much more than just that tuition. M and it's not going to hurt. You put, you know, 200 bucks a month in there from, you know, 11 to 18, you're going to have a nice buffer and not be worried about any

spillover or gap. >> Yeah. And just some nerdy things to keep in mind that Roth that uh 529 needs to be open needs to have been open for at least 15 years before you can start rolling it. And you know, the annual Roth contribution rates still apply. So whether it's 8,500 or maybe by those years it'll be like 11,000. Who knows what the >> if you open them now the kids will be, you know, 24 and 26. Well, that's great.

They just have a starter retirement plan right there if you have two 529s for them. So, I love I love that you guys are thinking about this >> and it's an unfortunate circumstance in which you guys are leaprogging the baby steps, but again, we're so grateful for for your husband's service.

>> So, that that 529 rule was part of the Secure Act uh 2.0 >> 2.0. And I got to believe, you know, I feel like 35,000 is kind of low, but I got to believe that that might go come up over time possibly as Roth limits,

contribution limits go up. Do you know what I mean? >> You can only convert up to the amount of the Roth IRA. So this year, you know, 7,500 bucks. So you can't do it all in one fell swoop. >> But it goes up every year. So you got to believe 15 years later, which is when the Roth would be eligible. Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's the hope. You never know what the government >> know. They could revoke the whole thing. You You never know. I'm just glad there's an option cuz for so long people were like, well, I don't want to do it cuz what if they don't go? And I go, we have a student loan crisis upon us with about 1.7 trillion.

>> I'm more worried they're going to go into crippling student loan debt than the wonderful problem of what if they don't go and I have a pile of money sitting here >> that I can change to any beneficiary.

And what's cool, I mean, this can become a generational >> college endowment fund. When you think about it, by the time your kids have grandkids, >> never, you don't even have to add anything to it. It just grows. it'll just snowball into this massive pile of money. >> I like that idea. I'm not like aiming for that, but if it happens, I'm not mad about that old grandpa George started a scholarship fund >> for his whole generation.

>> Ken, >> I think that's what you call him.

>> That's very Beverly Hills. >> What's weird to think about is I'm going to be somebody's ancestor.

That's just weird to me. It may It just I don't want to think about it. >> Blew my mind a little bit. >> I don't want to think about it.

But it's a good teaching on the baby steps here, Jade, of when to do this. Some people they love their kids so much they forego investing in their own retirement to try to put away some money for >> junior time investing. You've got to put your own mask on first. I've heard you say that.

I think that's a really great analogy for it.

That's you paying off your debt. We teach a series of baby steps. Baby step one, get $1,000 saved. That's pretty quick. Most people do it in 30 days, George. Baby step two, we we talked about it earlier in the show. This is where your debt, snowballing, all of your debt, everything except the house.

And then from there, now we're going to start playing a little bit of uh offense. Is that a good way to say it?

We're going to start saving up some money for oursel. 3 to 6 months of expenses. It's a barrier between you and life, making sure you no longer go into debt, making sure you're in a really good uh financial footing so that you can begin baby step four, which is investing. Now, we're starting the process of investing. Baby step four, five, and six we do simultaneously. You want know what that means? At the same time. So baby step five now is the 529.

You could do an ESA. There's limits there. I like a 529. We just need details about it. >> Yeah. I do 529 plans for both of my kids. Couple hundred bucks in there from 0 to 18. You'll have six figures in there, which is by the way what it's going to cost for a normal state school by then. So ain't >> lying. God bless. Let's keep saving.

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Alice is up next in San Antonio. Welcome to the show, Alice.

>> Hi. Thank you so much. Um, my question was, what is the difference between being generous and enabling poor financial habits with family members?

>> Oo, love this question. And also, I'm sorry.

>> How close are these family members?

>> Um, they're my husband, siblings, and mom. Oh well, I think you said the difference in your explanation. I think the difference is poor financial habits. I think that

is the difference between helping and enabling. If somebody has really poor financial habits and let me add this po

part, they're not interested in changing them. That is the difference because I think all of us started out as at a point where we had a lot to learn financially and when the knowledge came

we were willing to receive it. We were willing to look at ourselves and go okay yeah they're right I need to change but if these family members are not willing to do that that's where it becomes I believe enabling because it's no longer helping them. >> Yeah. If there's no movement toward independence and the direction is not toward freedom for themselves and autonomy, well then we're just giving to give. And if they keep asking for more giving, it's not really giving at that point. It's entitlement.

>> So, is that where you guys are at? Are they >> every month going, "Hey, can we get 500 bucks?" >> No. And it's it's not even that much.

And so, like maybe it's just in like my head, but it it's we've been married for seven years now. So I would say over the course of seven years, it's probably been like every 3 months or so and it like rotates between them and then sometimes his friend also ask.

>> Oh gosh. So word has been going round that you it's bank of Alice.

>> Are you guys wealthy?

>> No. Um and we've also gone through like different job like uh we have two little kids at home and so I stay at home and work. I do some like side stuff, but like between us, you know, we probably um are on track to make about 70 this year. Um but it's like, you know, up and down.

So it's like it's not even like, you know, we're working six figure, you know, getting >> Why do they think they Why do they make the assumption that Allison friends will be able to fit the bill? Why do you think that is?

>> Uh yeah. And I'm not sure what he was doing like when he was single and stuff, but it just has been, you know, $25 here, $50 here, I need help covering my phone bill. Um, it's never really been

like a we can't put food on the table.

It's always been like, hey, this bill is here. So, I don't know where it started and whatnot, but I just like know that it just keeps and it's still, you know, seven years later, every once in a while it comes up. So, I you know, I feel like I'm in a bad position because it's like we have $25 we could send them, but I

just know it's going to come around again. >> Yeah. >> And um so, and I don't want it to be 500

or a,000 in the future kind of thing.

>> Are you guys debtree?

>> Yes, >> you're debtree. What baby step are you on?

>> I haven't really been following them. Um but we we just rerent. We don't have any credit card debt. We had school loans when we got married, but we paid them off within the first year.

>> Um, and then and we had some credit card debt, but then we paid it off. And so for rent, >> um, yeah, uh, we're working towards like 3 to six months of, um, you know, built up, so I think we're about two months ahead on our budget.

>> Okay. What does that equate to dollars wise?

>> I think it's 3,800 a month.

>> Okay. 3,800.

uh you have 3,800 saved or that's what you >> for a month. So, um all in total, it

sounds like crazy, but between all of our accounts, we probably have about $20,000, but I have it like all eared marked for months or a car fund or stuff

like that. >> Okay. So, the small tweak, and you didn't ask, but I'm just going to say this. The small tweak that I would make is I would make sure to do the math and

figure out what would be 6 months of expenses with 70,000. I like the idea of you having a full six months of expenses. It sounds like uh only one of you is working, not both of you.

>> Full time. Yeah, my husband is working full-time and then I do like um contractor work every once in a while.

>> Yeah, I'd love for it to be a full six months of expenses and I might hold back

on the funds, especially if it's not something that's really really pertinent to to the moment. I would hold back on doing the funds and get the the six months settled and then above and beyond we could do the funds on top of that.

So, back to the question at hand. Yeah, you just have to say no.

>> Is your husband aligned on this or are you the one who's like, "Hey, I don't like this pattern." He's like, "Well, it's just 25 bucks. It's fine." Or is he just as mad as you are?

>> No, he sees it as like it's it's only $25. And I see it as it's a pattern.

>> See, that's unification there. weird.

Yeah. And that's where I feel weird cuz I'm like I enjoy being generous and but it like it just >> Are you generous in other areas? Like do you guys have is do are you church people that you do tithe or do you have foundations that you give to? Are you generous regularly in other ways?

>> Yes. Yeah, we do 10% to our church and then we set aside another 10% to just give to random things.

>> Okay. And is this part of the 10% that you set aside to give to the random things? >> No, not typically. It's usually like structured organizations, um, missionaries, that sort of stuff.

>> So, that answers that question. That answers that kind of moral dilemma of am

I not a generous person? Clearly, you are, cuz you are giving it sounds like 10 to 20% of your income, which is very, very generous. So, that answers that moral dilemma. Anything beyond that is is this is the relational part of it which is somewhere in his mind or

upbringing he kind of feels like well this is just what you do. You know if your buddy asks for if your buddy asks for 10 bucks you give it to him.

>> We're not hurting. So what's the big deal? >> Now there is I I do want to I think there's a there's a difference here. If my if a if

a friend of mine was like hey we're out to dinner. She forgot her wallet. of course I'm spotting her the 25 whatever it is that's very different than hey man

you know I'm just coming on some hard times can you can you spot me you know I just got I need something for my cell phone bill right that it's a different feeling cuz it's like well what's causing this so what you can do a very

amazing way to be generous if you have not already done this is you and your husband number one to George's point you got to get on the same page but when you do you sit down with the mother-in-law you sit down with a friend you sit down with the siblings and say hey here's what and separately, not at the same time. Here's what we're seeing. It just sounds like you guys, we love you guys and it just sounds like you're going through a hard time. We'd love to show you the thing that helped us.

We've been there and we started walking these baby steps.

We'd love to gift you this and you can gift them every dollar. You can gift them Financial Peace University. Matter of fact, before you leave, we'll give you the total money makeover. put a bow on it and say this is the best gift that we could give you because it's what helped us and we know it can help you too. And that to me is a subliminal way of saying stop asking me for money.

>> They'll get the memo pretty quick and it's okay to just say hey we're not able to do that. Hey that's not in the budget for us but we'd love to sit down and help you create a budget and help you avoid needing money for bills next month and the month after cuz we're seeing this pattern and we love you. And so it's not out of a place of you know you're better than them. It's out of a place of love actually.

And if they never feel the consequence, then they're they're never going to change the behavior. So you're not being cruel by stopping.

>> Yeah. >> And that's the hard thing to do with family, people that you love.

>> Yes. >> And then they feel a certain way about you and they go, "Wow, that looks so stingy." >> Well, this is the part of money, this is the part of money that is emotional, which is it all has to do with the way we were brought up. If you were brought up in a way that you know everybody just kind of it's a pot of money and you just kind of throughout the family mom gives to dad, brother gives to mom and dad, grandma, you know, and everybody just kind of reaches in. That's very different from probably the way that you grew up with money emotionally.

that one is wrong or right. It's just your values and how you view it.

Because, >> you know, some people might argue, hey, if if the money doesn't bother you and you can do it, do it. Some people might argue that. I would disagree with that.

But it it it's just um it's from a value standpoint.

>> Got it. That makes sense. Um not to rain on y'all's parade, but we did buy them budgeting books for Christmas two years ago. >> Was it birthday?

>> No, it was a different one, but maybe we'll we'll have to throw I don't know.

>> It's collecting. That's why it didn't work.

>> I'm just joking. >> To be fair, I don't even know if they read it. I >> Well, we'll give you Every Dollar because that's the one that'll actually work. And we'll also give you Total Money Makeover. Uh George, what about Breaking Free from broke? >> Let's throw that one in there. >> Yeah. And I'll give you mine also. What?

No one told you. >> Kaboodleoodle. Well, there you go. So, that the key pieces here are guilt-based giving is not generosity and enabling isn't love. And the sooner you can understand that and put the boundary up in love, the better your life is going to be. The better your the better your marriage is going to be.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw.

Open phones at88255225.

Danny is up next in Orlando, Florida.

Danny, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thank you guys for taking my call.

>> Sure. So, um, a little background, uh, me and my husband have been married for about a year and a half. Um, he immigrated here from Peru. He's been here for about 5 years now. Um, he has a

high possibility of being deported before our family case is approved.

>> Oh, wow. >> So, that'll be that decision will be made in December. So, we're we still have about 15,000 in credit card debt

that we were working on paying off. Um, but my question is, should we just keep to paying minimum payments and try and stack cash in this time since of the, you know, I don't know if he, if he's deported, it'll be like two to five years before he'll be able to come back.

>> Oh my gosh. >> So, I'll be going with him, of course.

>> Right. That was going to be my ask. And what are the financial implications if this does happen? Like, come December, let's say he is deported, you go with him. How much money is this going to cost you guys? And what will your new life be like?

Um, it depends. He could be detained um

for a couple months before he's deported and then it's kind of up to the government as to where they'll deport him to. Then we may have to pay for him for a flight to a new place um that's a little safer for him. He's thinking about going to Spain. Um he has a buddy that lives there that could help him out with starting his life there.

>> Um >> and you're just going to follow him wherever he can. >> I would plan.

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. What are you guys doing for work? That's my husband right now. We both manage a kitchen. I make about $26 an

hour and he makes $23 an hour. Um, and

then we also have a bunch of side jobs.

So, we're bringing in about 8,000 a month. >> 8,000 a month. Okay. And do you are you renters? Do you have a house? Tell us about any assets you have.

>> We have two paid off vehicles. Uh, one

that has a loan on it, but it's not upside down. It's a wash if we sell it.

Um, so we have three vehicles. We're selling the one with debt on it to get that monthly payment out of. We have monthly bills of about $1,000 in lawyer fees. Um, and then the rest of our expenses are about three grand a month.

So, we'd be able to save a decent amount of money. Um, but paying off all that

that credit card debt, I I think um I'm not sure if it would be wise to do that. um given we we might need it. And >> yeah, I'm calling this storm mode for you guys because it's it's it's a storm and you know what's coming and so I would treat it that way. Um just like we would if there was a baby coming or if you knew you were being laid off, that sort of thing. Um uh did you say that you're renting?

>> Yes. >> Okay. You are renting. Okay. So if you were to go, >> let's pick Spain. If you were to go to Spain, I'm guessing you would sell the remainder two cars.

>> And how much would that give you?

>> About 7500 for both of them.

>> Okay, that'd give you another 7500. And then if you were to stop uh just pay minimum payments and stop debt snowballing, how much would you have saved by December to add to the 7500?

Um it to get out of the apartment it's three grand. We'd be breaking our lease.

>> Okay. >> Um and then after that we could probably

save up about 15,000.

>> Another 15. Okay. Um what I would start

doing is to try to and I know that you don't know. You mentioned Spain. So I

would just start there. I would just start gathering as much information as I can. I'd look at where his buddy lives in Spain. What's the cost of living over there?

What's it cost to get a two- room apartment or a one room apartment? What type of job opportunities are transferable that you do here that you could do there? And I do the same thing for Peru, where whatever area of Peru his family is from. Right.

And just start to get as much knowledge and information as you can.

>> Yeah. >> More money, more information will give more peace.

>> Absolutely. So, it is wise to stop paying on the well, just make minimums on the credit cards. >> Yeah. And if this doesn't happen in December, well, now you have a pile of money. Just knock out those credit cards instantly.

>> Okay. >> But if you can approach this with like 25 grand in your pocket, I think that's going to feel really really good. Um, and and to kind of have a checklist of here here's what what we're going to do.

we're going to sell the car and then we're going to do the lease and then we're going to do this and just kind of literally put down a plan of action like document it and document what it would look like going to Spain, document what it would look like going to Peru, all of that. And I think that that's just going to help you feel uber ready for this.

>> And you can use the Every Dollar app, Danny, and and plan all this out. You can make a fake budget of like, okay, here's what our new life could cost us.

Here's what our current life costs us.

And in the meantime, use that budget to create as much margin as you can. Now is not the time to go yolo and life's crazy so let's eat out. >> Now it's how do we use as little of this money as possible to stack it up so that not only can we pay off the credit card debt but we have an emergency fund. We have no debt now starting this new life.

So that's the end goal is can we whatever happens can we restart this process with no debt and an emergency fund. You guys will operate differently no matter what happens. >> Yeah. and and spend some of the things to add to that list would be if you do go to Spain, you're going to likely need some sort of work visa as well and what's the cost for that. So, make sure you're factoring that in as well.

>> That's wild. That's a wild one. Wishing you guys the best. >> All right, Daniel is in New Orleans up next. What's going on, Daniel?

>> Hey, how's it going, guys? Thanks for taking my call. So, um I got a question.

So, I've always used uh you guys as like some advice for my kids growing up. I lost my father when I was young and and I've used the principles and teachings that you guys have had and just getting to now adulthood.

>> I love that. That sounds like an adventure for her. Um, well, I mean, I can tell you what I did. My husband and I worked on cruise ships and went to over 92 countries and I had a debit card

and a lot of times I would call them ahead of time and let them know, I'll be out of the country, here's where I'll be visiting. So, my card would work in

those different locations. I never had an issue with them thinking it was fraud, but also because I was traveling,

they knew to be aware that there could be fraud. Um, and it had I had all the

same protections.

>> And another key point here is international fees. And you can avoid that. Our friends at Fairwinds actually, they created a smart bundle for our fans that includes a Fairwind's debit card.

And after watching my video that I did on this topic, they said, "Hey, let's get rid of international transaction fees for all of our users." So she can open up a fair winds account and sort of use that as her, you know, international spending money and keep her home bank account separate and just sort of fund it with how much she needs each month from that. And that'll help protect her, you know, sort of OG account as well. So that could be a great move for her. And

on top of that, they will even wave 10 bucks a month in ATM fees if you're international. So a lot of cool features there. Uh not not intentionally a plug for Fairwinds. They just it happens to be the thing that came to mind of how to solve this.

And for online purchases, there's a great one called privacy.com that allows you to create virtual debit card numbers. So, that's another solution if she's making purchases abroad online. They even can do a physical card as well, but I think fairins would do the trick right now for her.

now with things like Apple Pay.

>> Yes. >> And I try to use the local currency instead of converting cuz that'll actually cost you more to convert to USD. >> But, you know, do the research. Nowadays, it's easier with a smartphone.

That's right. Okay. There's an app for everything. >> That's right.

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>> Jenna is in Seattle up next. Jenna, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi there. Hey. >> So, my question is quick and to the point. Um, should I allow my very

generous boyfriend to pay off some additional debt of mine?

>> Wow. >> Tell us more. What does additional mean?

How much has he paid off so far? Many questions. >> He he paid off uh a personal loan that I

had taken out to do some home repairs

uh about a year and a half or two about a year and a half ago. >> And then about six months ago, he paid off my student loans. >> Oo. How much was the personal loan and how much was the student loans?

>> The personal loan was maybe $15,000

>> and the student loan was probably 30

35,000. >> Oh my. >> So he he's paid off $50,000 worth of debt for you so far, >> right? >> How much more is there to go?

>> Well, I all I have is a car and a home

loan. That's the only other debt that I have. >> Do you guys live in your home?

We don't live together.

>> Okay. >> Uh we uh we maintain separate

households. We've been together for about three years. He's widowed.

>> Widowed. Any kids?

>> Uh we both have kids that are all college age. >> Okay. Uh how old are you guys?

>> In our 50s.

>> Okay. Um >> he's retired. He retired young.

>> Okay. He and his late wife did everything right financially and I'm divorced and so that kind of messed up my uh financial situation. But

>> are you going to marry him?

>> I'm just getting cutting to the chase.

>> We we um we've both decided we don't want to remarry, but we've we've found, you know, we we're committed to each other. Uh >> you'll continue to live in separate households and hopefully be together forever in separate households.

>> Um I don't know. We're we're still figuring that out. >> I'm going to tell you, Jenna, I think this question is more about you than it is about him because >> if you said to me, I this is the one like I I

think we're getting married. I want to be with him. Uh and I think it's happening. I think he's going to pop the question. I would feel less of the way I

feel right now, which is I don't think you need to be accepting these gifts from somebody that you don't think that you're going to be on the long haul with. $50,000 is a lot of money.

>> Well, I think we're going to be in the long haul. We just don't necessarily want to get married. I was in a very abusive marriage. >> True that. >> He had a very long happy marriage, but

um >> True that. But you and I both know long haul doesn't exist without a committed without commitment.

>> And I I didn't hear it. It's like it could be like I I care for him. I love him, but I don't know. It was more like that is fair enough.

>> Uh I don't feel that way, but I can see how it comes across that way.

>> That's that's my only thing. I don't hear me cuz this is on all the radio and all the YouTubes and all the podcast. I think you're a great person. I don't think that you're in any way trying to like scam this guy or anything.

>> Yeah. You're not doing anything wrong. It's on his valition if he wants to spend his money how he so chooses. He could give 50 grand to a charitable organization or gamble in Vegas.

It's his money. He's choosing to help somebody that he loves, which is a very noble thing.

>> I just don't know that >> I would accept such a gift if there if

there wasn't a full commitment there because this is the type of thing that could breed resentment later, I think.

>> Mhm. Right. Couldn't this hang over your head of, hey, I paid off 70 grand of your debt and this is how you >> Could that happen one day?

>> I don't see that happening with him cuz he also pays for we go on a lot of vacations, you know, he pays for everything. He doesn't let me pay for much of anything. Um, he just he has

done well and he >> Yeah, he independently wealthy. Like he's obviously retired. He has a huge nest egg. If he's just willy-nilly paying off debts like this, it sounds like he's doing very well. He's a multi-millionaire is my guess.

>> Well, yes. I Yes.

>> We're very open about about the financial situation. And it's very lopsided. >> What What's his Give me an an estimate.

What's his net worth versus your net worth? >> Um he's in the double digit millions and

I'm in the h less than half a million.

>> Okay. um for you for you and your placement in

this relationship.

I love the idea. I'm not saying that you

need to go back and pay him back the 50,000. I'm not necessarily saying that.

But I don't want you to let him pay your car off. I want you to do that.

>> Okay? >> I want you from this if if you take on debt because you have said, "Hey, we're separate. We live in separate places. We have separate finances and many you're dating like you you guys have maintained your boundaries.

I actually love that for you. Since you're doing that, I would do that in this area as well. And no, it's my debt. I want to pay it.

I think that allows you to maintain a certain amount of independence. And I think it allows you to keep the the >> if this were a marriage, it'd be different, but it's not. So, it allows you to keep the balance of power right where it should be, which is there. No one can say that this guy is taking care of me, that I'm mooching off of him, that I'm living off of him, that I need him.

long term.

>> Yeah. >> What do you think? >> That's kind of how I That's how I feel about it. >> Okay. He um he just Yeah.

>> He's he's just a nice guy. I can sense it. Like I >> He really is. Oh my gosh.

>> And I think you're a nice lady, too. And you're like, "This is great. I think it's probably really great. I I don't sense anything that's off here. I just

>> if I were in your shoes problem to have >> it's not it's not. But I listen, I'll

take it a step further. I hope you guys do commit. Like I hope that you guys find the trust that you need and find the healing that you both need because you both have been through it. I mean, you said he's a widowerower and and you've been through an abusive time. I healing would have to take place in major ways, I think, for both of you to get there. But man, if you can, it it's

such a beautiful thing. >> Yeah. Marriage is not the villain here.

And I know it feels that way because of your past experience, but being married to this guy is going to be light years difference than your last one. Right.

>> Right. >> I can already see that based on the way he's treating you and his generosity.

So, it's not that we're like, "You better get married or else, Jenna." I I just think it adds a different level of commitment. It adds a layer of protection on on his part even though he doesn't really need it financially. But the question to ask yourself is this. Is this help accelerating your own independence or is it replacing it?

>> That's the part that worries us more than anything because what if one day you guys break up and now you were kind of needing him for his income and the lifestyle and now you don't have that.

You don't have your own retirement. So there's also some protections you don't have in that regard. >> Right. George makes a good point and I'll I'll go further on that point which is I I love that the separation that you guys have created because that's just what I think is a normal dating separation and I think that that's good.

But I think if you tie your finances up too much uh in the way of yeah letting him pay major debts there could develop

uh let's say in the future you're starting to notice some things that you're like man I don't know if this guy is the one. when he's done so much for you, it could make you feel like you need to stay with him longer than maybe you would have if these things hadn't been done for you. Does that make sense? Like it could just >> create a cloudy vision there that I I wouldn't want for you.

Um but I don't see that happening.

>> What is your income right now?

Um, my from my primary job, I uh make

about 150 and then I get some of my ex-husband's pension which all goes toward my retirement and then I have some a side gig.

>> Yeah. So, you're good. You got you got money. You've got your own thing.

>> You can pay off this car in a couple of months, it sounds like. >> What's left on the loan?

>> Um, right now about 40.

>> Okay. So, if you took, let's say, four,

five grand a month, you could be done with this in 8 to 10 months,

>> potentially. Yeah.

>> See, there there's my question. >> I'm not putting that much on it, George.

>> If this was only on you, there's no urgency here. You're not changing any behavior that got us here where we went out and bought a, you know, $50, $60,000 car. And that's the part I want you to be good on your own to where you don't need him. And I think it's going to change Jenna.

If she pays off her own car loan, she's going to drive that thing differently than if generous boyfriend swooped in to pay it off. Now she's going car shopping again going, "Woo, what other what other debt can we get in? Let's play this game.

I hope you have a long, wonderful life together. And yes, I hope you get married selfishly.

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And you can do that at ramseyolutions.com/agent to connect with a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. Katie is in Sacramento up next.

>> Hi. So, I had a question. I am getting a

about $75,000 workers comp settlement and my parents

want me to save all of it for a down payment on a house and I was wondering if it's valid to take five or 10,000 of that and spend it on my wedding for next year. >> Oh, >> okay. >> Okay. >> What happened with the workers comp situation?

Um, I got injured and yeah, I ended up

getting an attorney and turned into this. So, yeah. >> Are you okay now? Are there any kind of ongoing health? >> I'm getting better. Yeah, I >> I have good in good private insurance.

So, um, yeah, but I'm slowly getting better now. I'm just doing a lot of different treatments. >> And you'll be able to work as you once did?

>> Yes, correct. I start nursing school in the fall, actually. Okay, cool, cool, cool. Um, so you're getting married. Uh,

are your parents helping fund the wedding at all or it's just you and your fiance fitting the bill?

>> So, it's a little bit of both. So, his parents are pitching in a little bit, mine are pitching in a little bit, and then we're also going to have to pay a little bit on our own. >> What's the total budget?

>> I think we're looking at about 15,000.

And I'm thinking we're going to be splitting it three ways.

>> Okay. >> 15, you said?

>> Yes. Okay. So, you you guys to collectively as a couple would owe five grand.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And you want to take 5,000 of the 75 and that be your cut?

>> Yes. Correct. >> I mean, I don't I don't see why not. Um,

is there anything else to the equation we need to know about? Do you have a bunch of debt laying around anywhere? It doesn't sound like you do.

>> No, we have no debt. We have paid off vehicles and we currently are living in

a trailer on our my well future in-laws property um to save money.

>> Um I don't I have my bachelor's degree but I don't have any student loans. I have all of it paid off. >> How are you paying for nursing school?

>> It's only about $5,000 because it's through a community college. So my parents are offering to pay for it.

>> They're paying for that. >> I mean I think 5,000 of the 75 is a

reasonable amount. I think the $15,000 wedding in full is a reasonable amount.

>> I'm honestly impressed you can do a wedding for that number in today's America. >> I agree.

>> Yeah, definitely. And I guess my second part to this question is what to do with the rest of the money to help it grow over time until I'm ready to buy a house. >> Yeah. How far away is that purchase, you think? Is it a year, two years, five years? >> About five years.

>> I'm 21 right now. The magic number.

>> Ding ding ding. So the way we look at this is five years is a long-term decision. And so you could invest this money. You could invest it in like a brokerage account, non-retirement, put it in some index funds and let it ride.

And hopefully in 5 years, the reason 5 years is sort of this magic number is because over 5 years you're likely to see some gain in that investment account versus a shorter time period like two to three years. You could see some market dips and you go to pull out that money and it's a smaller amount than you even put in. Mhm. >> That's not the the ideal scenario. So, if that worries you at all, a high yield savings account is still a great option.

You can make over 3%. You know, you can jump on to fairwinds.org/ramsey and open one with the smart bundle and that'll at least help your money grow and not get eaten up by inflation sitting in a checking account. >> Yeah. Would what would you do, George?

Would you do would you invest it or would you hold it your temperament >> at five? If I knew it was five years and I'm not going to get a little, you know, doom scrolling on Zillow and go, "Oh, really? Three years?" then I would be comfortable investing it and you can always contact a Smart Investor Pro on our website to help you invest that wisely. But otherwise, a high yield savings account, no one's going to be mad at you if you do that.

>> N >> Okay. All right. Sounds good. Well, thank you guys so much.

>> Yeah. Good luck with everything. It's a lot of life change. >> That is a lot.

>> So much life left to live.

>> Babies, I tell you. >> Don't you wish you could go back and be 21 and debtree?

If I was 21 and debtree, I wouldn't know how to act. I don't even think I would know how to >> I don't think I can stay that way at 21 with my prefrontal cortex. In fact, I got to go get some debt. I'm itching for some debt. >> Listen, I think I needed to learn my lesson. >> Maybe it was good that I had a lot of >> Some of us need to touch the hot stuff.

>> Yeah, that's right. >> All right. Boy, Mike is in Portland up next. What's going on, Mike?

>> Hi. Uh, thank you for taking my call.

Uh, I've got two questions. one is much more minor than the the other one. Um,

so I'm going to lay down the the sort of groundwork here. So I'm 29 years old.

Uh, I am a nurse and I make pretty good

money. Uh, currently make about 250 a year. >> Whoa. >> As a nurse, >> how >> uh travel? >> I do uh No. No. So luckily uh on the

West Coast we do I'm from Florida uh and we make crap money there. Uh, and we get

paid a whole lot more here on the West Coast. That's that's one of the reasons I came out here. And I do uh I do work a good amount of overtime as well. So, this isn't just me working. >> Is this a specific type of nursing?

>> Um, no. I'm just a nurse in the hospital. Every nurse in my hospital could make that much if they like doctor

money. I'm just impressed.

>> Way to go. >> Well, see, that's the actually part of the problem. I mean, it's a good problem to have, sure, but this is uh this is the the reason I'm calling because

um I like being a nurse. It's great. Uh but I don't want to do this forever. I do want to do more down the line. So, um

I also have uh I've been here for about a year and a half and I've got just a little bit over 200k invested in my um in my brokerage account. >> Mh. >> Um and it's it's been going well. Uh and

really I went into nursing because I wanted to do something else down the line initially. Uh it's basically something uh you can go back to school for. Uh and you essentially are you work in anesthesia. Um those guys make uh much more money than even the 250 I make. Um it's closer to like 350 375.

>> Uhhuh. >> Um but it's a three-year school to go to and most of those schools will either u

make you sign a contract saying you cannot work during that time. And even if they don't make you sign a contract, you really you can't really work in that time. It's you're so busy. It's pretty intense. Yeah. You're really not going to um be able to work very much. So,

initially when I worked in Florida, you know, I was going to make about 60k a year. Um so, that was a pretty easy

thing to pass up for 3 years um to go to

school and make a whole lot more money.

But now >> it's so much more. So >> to give up all this income, >> what would you be earning if you got the degree after 3 years?

>> So pretty pretty reasonably anywhere between 350 and 375. That would be pretty reasonable. >> And what's this program cost?

>> Um so that's the other thing. Um the

cost of the program usually about

130 to 160 depending on the school, but

you also have to live, right? So you also most people have to take loans out to it's it's it's very similar to medical school because most people go to med medical school they don't have um a significant amount of money to even live off of. >> Well you've got the money invested to pay for the cost of the education but you're you're not quite the problem would be what would you live off of for three years? >> How much do you need to live for a year if you if you were just acting like a broke college student while you're in this program?

I invest my money very very aggressively. Um probably uh um probably

maybe like 3,000 bucks a month.

>> So you could live off let's say 50 grand a year you could live. >> Oh for sure. >> So you need 150,000 >> plus the amount for the program which is 300. You currently have 200. Here's a game plan. I would just work for another 6 to 12 months and save up another 100k and then you've got a nice little parachute to not work for three years

and cash flow this entire program and you will likely be the only person to graduate from that program completely debtree.

>> So here's the other option. I think that's a that is one of the ones that I was one of the options I was thinking about. Um but the other option I thought about is why not just keep doing what I'm doing. Uh and what I mean by that is if I were to keep doing what I'm doing for about another five years, >> um I would reasonably I mean, you know, assuming the market goes okay, uh I I invest in very very like very safe.

>> We got 5 seconds, Mike. Spit it out.

>> You want to retire early? What?

>> Uh no, I don't want to retire early. I would just like to work for five more years. Uh in have about a million bucks invested and then instead of going the anesthesia route, just go be a nurse practitioner. Yeah, >> my brother does that. That's a great field as well. I think either way you're good. Follow your heart here. Do what you feel is right.

The Ramsay Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. Out of control private student loans can make it feel like you're stuck financially, but Yi helps borrowers explore refinancing with low fixed rates and payments that make sense for their budget. Visit visit yrefi.com/ramy to learn more. That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

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>> All right, today's question comes from Travis in Maryland. He says, "I'm debtree and I've built a successful career making over $150,000 at age 28. I

will soon be marrying my fiance who is graduating from medical school with $475,000 in student loans."

>> She seems flippant about this amount of debt when I bring it up. While the amount stresses me out, I've never had any debt because I paid for college, vehicles, and etc. out of pocket. How can I communicate to her the importance of getting this paid off once we're married? >> Once we're married?

>> Oh,ayy.

Okay. >> I wouldn't wait till then, bud.

>> I know. Cuz I'd want to show and prove.

I'd be like, "Show me that you agree with this sentiment by starting to pay off some of this debt on your own fiance." >> Yeah. Not being aligned on your values around money is one of the biggest red flags. >> It's a red flag. Big flag.

>> You've got to get that part dialed in before you get married. >> Yeah. The fact that she seems flippant about it specifically is what would give me a little bit of pause here. Um >> which can we be honest?

Most people who went to medical school and went half a million dollars into debt are flippant because either they're in denial or it's monopoly money to them >> because they're like, "Well, it'll just take me a lifetime to pay this off." Yeah, I want I have a couple of questions. I wish you'd called in, Travis, because I I want to know when is she graduating and I want to know how much time and when you're getting married so I can understand the time frame.

as much as she can begin starting to pay these off now while she's working. Uh

and then once I again, I don't know the timeline.

>> She's graduating. We don't know when. We don't know when she'll have a job, what residency looks like, all of that. So this could be a long journey before she's making real money.

>> And so if they're married, it's basically it's Travis's problem now.

That's right. So he's worried understandably about taking on a half million dollars of debt. >> And if she's not on board with him going, you know, full force paying off minimum payments and he's like, "We got to clean this up before we get a house." Well, there's going to be a lot of fights. >> They got to have this conversation. This is a conversation that you're not going to want to have, but you need to have.

And you have to have the conversation

and not try to manipulate the outcome for it to be what you want simply because you think you want to marry this person. You you need to go where the facts lead, my friend. >> Yeah. And I would get to the bottom of why she's flipping about it and do it calmly.

You don't need to be, you know, defensive and instigating and yelling, but just say, "Hey, I want to know why are you so cavalier and nonchalant about this? Like, this is a lot of money." Yeah. And you might need to help show her that with some math and what a monthly budget would look like trying to pay off half a million dollars in student loans. >> And she's going to go, "Oh, making 60 in residency for 5 years.

This is going to be a tight life and it's going to delay our ability to buy a home and go on vacations and upgrade the cars and all the things you want to do once you're married." >> That's true. >> And so, if you guys can at least get on the same page of here's the game plan once we're married, here's how we're going to attack this debt, then I would move forward. But I would not wait until you're married to have that discussion. >> I would not.

And I want to let's talk about this for a a tad bit longer because I think this is important. So if you're dating someone and you want to start having conversations about money, the first thing you're just trying to learn is what their philosophy is around debt and spending. And I think the best way to do that is to simply float a question out there and listen for the response. Don't start by saying your point of view.

If you have a sense of what they believe, sometimes you can kind of veer your answer towards theirs.

>> There's a little bit of fake it till you make it >> a little bit. Yeah. And you don't And with this subject, you don't want that.

So, it would be as simple as me being like, "So, George, you know, so we've never talked about this before, like what's your philosophy on money? Like, what do you think about money?" And you just you're just quiet and you just listen. Really? What do you think about debt? Debt is fascinating to me. what do you think about it? And if he's like, well, you know, if you leverage it the right way, uh, you know, learn and I would that night I would just everything would be like, oh, that's so cool. Huh?

You know, >> does he ask you the question back?

>> Be way like these are all >> Does she shut down when you bring it up now? It's something we got to dig into.

What's what's behind that? And it might be something from her childhood or how her parents handled money. Who knows?

Shame, guilt, baggage. But you got to deal with this stuff before you put that ring on it. >> Yeah. There's got to be like three levels that you got to get to.

Number one is just you learning. Number two is are they asking you, are they interested in your opinions on the matter? And number three, maybe they shut down the first few times, but if you go in there for a third try, is it still lock and key or are you able to see a little bit more light every time you ask? Cuz if you are, that's a good sign.

>> Yeah. And the bad stuff is just going to be amplified once you're married.

Once you can really let your hair down.

>> Yeah. It doesn't get easier simply because there's a ring on your finger.

Yeah, please. Good luck, Travis. Wish you the best. Terry is in Boise up next.

What's going on, Terry?

>> I I am calling uh to get you guys'

opinion about uh what constitutes

a valid emergency to go into safety

funds.

>> Do you guys disagree on this?

>> Uh vehemently.

>> Oh, wow. What do you Okay. What do you think constitutes as a financial emergency?

>> Um things like uh well, so I've I've

been on a long-term job search and so that's adding to my wife's stress about money. Um so that in and of itself is

kind of an emergency, which is I've tried to include in the conversation.

um her take-home pay is about $3,800 a month and we have been using every

dollar and um been living on a a very

declared budget. And so when things like, you know, holes in the shoes um or uh

prescription contacts uh for our kids or

a dentist or >> uh car repair, more like kind of preventative maintenance. >> Yeah. >> Care a lot of times.

>> She thinks that's an emergency.

>> Put us over They put us over the $3,800.

And we even I actually even know pretty much the exact amount that we should be

supplementing the monthly income by about $300ish dollar because of how how

responsible we're being. Um but uh she

is just very fearful of of the savings

going away um because the job search has taken so long. >> Are you guys living off of savings because of you not having income?

>> No. No. No. Oh, we're we're living off of uh her income. So, the take home pay.

>> How much is in savings?

>> Uh 40,000.

>> Oh, wow. >> Which is about >> Yeah. >> And you guys don't have any debt?

>> None. No, we just finished um

we went back to uh Financial Peace

University through our church >> um last year to get rid of medical bills and tax issues that I had from my uh

from my company that has closed.

>> Okay, way to go. Well, you guys are in a better financial position than you think, especially once you get some income in the door. How long have you been going without income on your side?

Um almost a year.

>> Okay. What? That feels too long to >> zero income, zero work, zero side gigs.

>> Um I have been applied to everything. So

I'm a sales engineer in industrial automation. Um there's not a lot of that here. Um, a lot of the a lot of the jobs

that I've applied for like

at the nurseries or just kind of like

retail jobs, they kind of don't understand what I'm doing there. I' They've actually made comments about like this job's for high schoolers kind of thing. >> Sure. >> Um, because long >> That's okay if they make those comments. >> I said that I told them I'm in the middle of a career change. It's fine.

Uh-huh. >> Um it it's been confusing. It's been a little rough. Um >> cuz you're saying 300 bucks would solve this per month.

>> Yes. Yeah. And we have the budget history to show that. >> So 4,100 bucks is really what it should be. If she's taking home 38, she needs to be taking home 41 or you guys need to be creating that level to cover all the bills. And so I'll I'll say this. Here's what constitutes an emergency. Is it unexpected? Is it urgent? Is it necessary?

If it's not those things, then we know, all right, this really was just poor planning. Let's add a syncing fund line item in the budget for car maintenance, for contact lenses, cuz we know that's going to come up every few months. That will solve a lot of these problems. But I think she's really stressed cuz you haven't had a job in a year. >> Any job. Any job.

All the jobs make a job.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

We've got open phones at88255225.

You jump in, join the conversation about your life and your money. Doug is in Charleston, South Carolina up next.

What's happening, Doug?

>> Doug, are you with us? Did we lose you?

>> Yeah. No, I got you.

>> Good. How can we help?

>> Well, I'm 50 years old.

>> You said 50 >> currently. Yes, 50.

>> Okay, >> that's right. >> And I retire early. Um, I'm debtree.

I've got $2.2 million saved up and I'm

staying hort.

>> Sorry, what was that last part? Your phone's breaking up on us. Try speaking directly into it.

So, you 2.2 million and then what?

>> I want to do a 72T retirement plan.

>> Okay. And what's your expenses?

>> Do that.

>> I don't have any bills. Everything I got paid for. Um >> I'm sorry. What? It'd be like much everything I have is paid for.

>> You don't have any bills? >> My house? >> No, sir. >> Well, how does that work? >> Property tax and insurance.

>> Cell phone and light bill and stuff like that, but not not bills. Bills, you know what I mean? No car payments. No.

>> Sure. But I'm talking I'm talking about your I mean, you don't need eat.

>> Well, other than that, obviously, but other than that, bills.

>> Okay. cuz I'm thinking like health insurance, life insurance, car insurance, homeowners insurance, property taxes, groceries, eating out, subscriptions. You got none of that?

>> Well, yes, we have that. I haven't figured that up exactly. I'm guessing around 4,000 a month.

>> Okay. >> Maybe five. >> So, to run your house, five grand a month, 60 grand take-home pay would cover you every year.

>> Yes, I would think so. >> Okay.

Who else is involved in this picture?

>> Just my wife.

>> Okay. And is she working or is she retired?

>> No, she's a stay-at-home mom.

>> Okay. How old are the kids?

>> They're grown and gone. >> Oh, so she's no longer She's a stay-at-home wife now. >> That's correct. I'm sorry. Yes. >> Okay, cool. I was like, boy, man, there's no kids here. This is a sweet gig. All right, so she's You both want to retire. Are you both good with this goal or is there sort of an encore career on the horizon for you that you want to pursue?

>> Well, I I I do some pressure wash on the side now um that I would probably continue to pursue and and I guess the re one of the reasons why I'm calling is to kind of help clarify it for her and

me where she's not nervous and I'm not

nervous about doing it.

>> Have you guys ever worked with a financial adviser?

>> We do. Yes, sir. >> Okay. Have you run these numbers by them to see the projections and all the whatif scenarios?

>> I have a team's meeting with um with my financial advisor Monday, >> but I wanted to get I want to get

>> your opinion as well.

>> I appreciate that. >> I just figured the more opinions I get Yeah. >> the better. I've listened to you for years. >> You're in a great spot. If you're completely debtree at 50 with $2.2 2 million and you have 60 grand in expenses every year. That tells me you're you're in good shape to do this.

Um that's why I was asking about those caveats. Are there any upcoming expenses? Do the kids need to save for college? You've got a paid for house, all of that. Where where is this 2.2 million sitting? >> Yeah. Is it Roth or is it traditional funds? >> Um most of it's in in a 401k, but about

seven years ago, they opened up a portion in our 401k to put it in Roth.

And then I have some I also have a Roth for me and for my wife outside of my

401k plan with my financial advisor.

>> How much do you guys have in cash? >> Another two point um readily available cash probably about 50. >> Okay. Has your financial advisor talked about having some cash reserves or bonds or a bond tent something like that to help preserve your nest egg?

>> No, sir. They haven't. >> Okay. That would be something I would ask about. Those are the kinds of things where I want to know every scenario.

Let's say the market was down for 3 years. How would you guys make it without depleting the nest egg at the worst time? Those kinds of scenarios.

And if you can, you know, dot the eye and cross the tea seven different ways, then I'm going, all right, green lights, go for it.

>> Okay. >> And you can also try it for a year. And if you're like, hey, the portfolio can sustain this. We've enjoyed this. Then you kind of know. And if not, you're only 51 by then and you're a smart guy.

You can always go back to work and make some money, right?

>> Well, yeah.

Where I'm at is is a rather large steel mill. And it's it I could probably end up getting a job back there eventually, but it's it's very hard on the body in the deep south in a steel mill in the summertime. So, I

don't know that I'd be wanting to go back there. And I get what you're going to say next. You're going to say, "You don't have to go back to a steel mill. could find other things to do and I I understand that but I'm just trying to

travel do some fun stuff now instead of work all the time. >> Sure. I mean the at the rate you're talking about to take out enough money now you're going to pay taxes if it's on the traditional side. So the other pieces of homework I would talk to your adviser about is Roth conversions and

then also the other pile of money outside of your retirement which is locked up. And again, you mentioned that the 72T, which can be a tool to access

that retirement fund early, but I would try to let that money grow and keep compounding before you access it. So, if you have other money, you could use. And that might mean you work for a little bit longer, stack up some cash, maybe get a year of expenses under your belt, and let that money grow for another year.

But, I think sitting with that financial adviser and going, "Hey, I need a final gut check. Show me every projection possible to make me feel really good about this." But you're talking about, you know, maybe a 3 3 and 12% withdrawal

rate, which if you look at any every financial planner would say, you're good. You're never going to run out of money if you do it that way.

>> Okay? >> But the question is long-term care, the crazy health stuff that could come up, big expenses that come up. That's the kind of stuff I want you to be ready for in case you go, "Man, I'd love to buy a car, but it feels like I shouldn't." I don't want you to have a a sort of a limited retirement because you're scared to spend money because you're not sure if you're going to run out. And that's why I would have a lot of confidence going in.

>> Okay. >> But I appreciate it. >> You've done really well, man. As long as you're, you know, lifestyle doesn't inflate like crazy. Yeah. >> You got a green light for me.

>> Let us know how it goes. I wouldn't want to be in that steel mill for a single day, Jade. I don't think I'd make it.

>> No. Like, no.

>> I wouldn't make it through the audition.

Hey, pick up that p. Nope. He's not.

>> They would just look at a photo of me and go, "She's not >> she can't do it." >> Well, you know, especially in the trades, it is when when a job is hard on your body, it's like you're in the NFL.

Like, you can't do this for 30 years.

And so, I totally understand. I also just go I've seen a lot of people follow the FIRE movement which is financial independence retire early and this is not a similar situation but they stack up a lot of money aggressively over a shorter period of time and they basically burn themselves out to the point of exhaustion panic attacks in order to retire early >> to do what?

>> To do what? And so I always tell them what are you retiring to instead of from? I think it's and Dave and I had this conversation the other day on the air. I think the word retire when you're

that young, I think what you really want is work optional.

>> Much better phrase. >> Do you know what I mean? It's that and that way it's like I may not want to go to my 9 toive job Monday through Friday, but if it's the right type of work and it's the right hours and it's on my terms, yeah, I'd be willing to do the thing I love and still make money from it. And I think that's a probably what most people are after.

I don't think most people just want to sit and do nothing. >> Yeah.

>> And I think you just that'll that will lead to an early death if that's all you do. And trust me, I love bingo and Price is right more than anybody. >> Well, options are what people want. They want the option to say not today.

>> Freedom. That's what you're after.

>> Mhm.

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Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseyssolutions.com/insurance.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Before the break, we were talking to Doug and he was asking, "Can I retire early at 50 years old? I got 2.2 million in retirement accounts. I got 50K in cash." And he said he was going to use the 72 uh T rule to do it.

So, we just want to take a moment to help our listening audience understand what that is, cuz they're probably going, "Is this a life hack? Is this a loophole?

And so it's how can I get at this money without being penalized for not being retirement age >> cuz the IRS normally will charge you a 10% penalty if you pull money from that 401k or IRA before age 59 and a half. So

section 72T of the tax code is the exception and lets you avoid that penalty. But there's uh some >> fine print red tape and stipulations.

>> Oh, you love that. You love fine print.

>> I love the fine print. So you This is You can only do this if you agree to take what is called substantially equal periodic payments, SEP, from the account. So think of it like you're making a deal with the IRS. They're saying, "Hey, you can have your money early, but you have to take a fixed amount on our schedule, not yours.

>> And you're locked in for five years to that schedule." >> Yeah. It's five years or a 59 and a half, whichever is longer. So in Doug's case, you're talking n and a half years of making sure that you can live off of this exact payment. And so that would that's part of the risk I was talking about where you got to make sure your eyes are dotted, tees are crossed before you just go, "Oh, cool.

There's a loophole. I can do it." >> Well, where people get hung up sometimes is they know, "Okay, I won't be charged the 10% early withdrawal, but they forget that they're still going to have to pay income taxes on the >> on the tradition." Yeah, because it's traditional. And here's the crazy part.

single payment you've already taken, plus interest on all of it. The IRS does not forgive uh honest mistakes here.

It's not there's no, "Oh, my bad." >> Yeah. >> And so that's why I'm not a fan of this.

>> It's kind of a last resort option, I would say. >> Yeah. And this is So if you're wondering, okay, well, George, how can I access money earlier? How do I retire before 59 and a half if I so choose? And the much better way is to create what's called a bridge account. So, this is where you just open a non-retirement brokerage account. You can still invest in index funds and mutual funds within that. >> And there's no penalties.

>> That's right. >> You'll pay taxes on the gains of that >> either long-term or short-term.

Hopefully long-term because that'll be a whole lot cheaper. And that way you can access that money until you can access the retirement account. So, think about if he had a million in a bridge account on top of his 2 million. Well, now he's not even touching that retirement account. >> He's completely in control. >> It is just growing for 10 more years and he has this million-doll bridge account to live off of in the meantime. And he'll pay some capital gains on that.

But there's uh there's some really cool tax planning you can do to basically pay no taxes. >> Yeah. >> If you're married filing jointly, get the standard deduction. You can basically take out 130 grand taxree.

>> I love that. >> So, a lot of cool things there. Again, this is why you want to have a good financial adviser in your corner. And if you want to get connected to one, jump on to ramiesolutions.com, click on smartvester pro and they will nerd out 10x what I could do on this show.

>> That was a good time. I hope you enjoyed that. If you didn't fall asleep at the wheel by now, hopefully. Uh, all right, Jade. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that was built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And we're going to break down some of the most asked questions of the week. We had a lot of questions. Look at this. around saving for retirement, paying off credit card debt, but the most asked question was around zerobased budgeting.

>> My favorite, the main question, how do I create my very first zerobased budget?

George, how do I do it? >> This is great. So, the core idea with the zerobased budget is that every dollar gets a job before the month begins. So, if you brought in $5,000, we

need to allocate every dollar of that 5,000. So, even if you have 3,000 in bills, well, if you don't make a plan for that other 2,000, it will disappear into Door Dash and entertainment and whatever else is going on in your life.

So, you start by writing down your monthly take-home pay. You can enter this into every dollar in the income section, each paycheck >> and start with what hits your bank account after taxes. >> Yeah. And we like to say after that, once you start and go through and start your expenses, let the first line item of the budget be giving.

It just puts your heart in the right place. Set aside 10% for church, charity, general giving, whatever it is. That's the first thing on your budget. And then from there, go on to the most important four walls is what we call them.

Your food, your utilities, your shelter, your transportation. And I'd say in a close fourth and fifth, it's probably insurance and daycare. >> Yes. And then of course debt.

If you've got some consumer debt, we're going to list that as the minimum payments.

It will break it out by smallest balance to largest balance. And then you're going to subtract until you hit zero. So if there's money left over, let's throw it at the debt if you got debt. If you're trying to save up the emergency fund, any leftover money goes to the emergency fund.

>> Love that. >> And you know, some people might go, "Well, Jade, I'm in the red." >> That's okay. >> My expenses are 3500, but I'm only taking in three grand. >> Yeah, that's a learning experience there.

And that's when it's time to start cutting back. >> You should say, "Glad I did a budget to figure this out that I'm 500 bucks in the hole every month." >> Yeah. And you can look for areas to cut back. For most of us, it's areas of subscriptions, going out to eat, uh self-care.

Those types of areas are the areas that we can cut back. And if you look and you go, there's no place for me to cut back. I am then now we know we need to add a side hustle to the mix, which you can do. But just know it takes about 3 months to really get in the in the flow of budgeting and to really create a budget that's going to work for you and your family.

>> That's right.

You can get started based on your specific income and expenses. It'll walk you through it just like we would on the show. Go to ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Kayana is in Seattle

up next. Kayana, did I get that right?

>> Yes, sir.

>> Crisis averted. How can I help today?

>> Thanks for the call and thanks for answering. Um, so my boyfriend and I are trying to figure out a plan for finances so we both can be on the same page in the future. Um, what can we do right now to set up for success? And what would the alternative be to building up credit? >> Great questions. How old are you two?

>> Um, I'm 18. He's 19. I'm almost 19.

>> How long have you guys been together?

>> Um, officially 6 months. Wow.

>> So, we've known each other for a while.

>> Okay. And what have the money conversations been like thus far? It sounds like you guys have talked about this a little bit. >> Yeah, we're all we're both a little over planners. So, um, we're just thinking and talking and >> trying to figure out, um, just like how

we would do things, if we're going to be using credit cards or not, cuz I was raised without like no credit cards are a bad thing. My parents and I my parents are both debtree except for the house. I still remember when they cut up the credit card. >> I love that. >> So, is there some tension? Because he's like, "What? That's crazy. Like, you got to have a credit card." >> Actually, there's no tension, which is great. We're >> good. He's like, "Cool. Yeah, I think credit cards are are not a healthy tool either.

>> Yeah, he's not he thinks that they could possibly be used smart, but um but we

both don't have enough information to

>> figure it out together.

>> Well, I think there's two I think there's two paths that we need to cover

on this. And one is do you even need credit? Like is credit necessary to your life? And then the other side of this is, and I'll probably start here and work backwards with George, which is, >> okay, >> please, please, please, at no point if you guys, even if you decide we don't care, we don't agree with what Ramsay says about not needing credit, please never co-sign together.

You're >> Yes, >> you're dating. who knows if you'll get married one day, but if he's thinking debt could be used in a good way sometimes, like maybe getting a car note, I cannot tell you how many times people call in here and they've co-signed a loan with somebody that they were once dating >> cuz they wanted to help them >> because they wanted to help. They wanted to build credit.

her into this car that they've co-signed on. Right? So, the first part of the conversation is whatever you do, please don't cosign. If there's a co-signer needed, it's because that person would not be approved for debt on their own because they're clearly broke.

>> And you cosign with somebody. You know this, I'm saying it for those listening. If you cosign with somebody, it goes the opposite way. You're on the hook for the entire balance.

>> The other piece of this, you're talking about how do we build credit without a credit card? Well, then I go, what are you trying to build credit for? >> For a car loan. Well, I thought we agreed. We're not going into debt for a car. We're going to save up, pay cash.

So, all the things that you think I need credit for that. I would question it and go, do you, though? And I walk you through this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke. So, I'm going to send this to you as a gift because if you guys read this together, you're going to be reading off the same sheet of music.

You'll be totally aligned. You'll know how to communicate about it, how to navigate life without a credit card, without credit. And I walk you through every piece of it in the book and the credit score chapter. So, hang on the line. We're going to send you Breaking Free from Broke. If you want the audio book, just let our phone screener know.

They'll get you that as well. I wish you guys the best. Green flag so far with this relationship.

Hey, George Camel here. We often talk about how being normal sucks when it comes to your money. But guess what?

Normal isn't so great when it comes to your job either. Normal is staying in a job you hate, dreading Mondays, and working for people you don't even like.

Sound familiar? Well, the good news is you can break free from normal because Ramsay Solutions is hiring. And we refuse to settle for the ordinary. In fact, we are anything but normal and we are proud of it. And right now we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. So head over to ramseyolutions.com/careers and apply today.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We talk a lot about offense on the show, how to build wealth, but you also have to protect it as you build it. That's the defense side, and that's where insurance comes in. The right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wealth if disaster strikes. And our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan with clear next steps. So you can take it at ramiesolutions.com/checkup for free. Get that coverage checkup.

Find out if you've got the protection you need. Mary is in Cincinnati up next.

Mary, welcome to the show.

>> Hey George and Jade, I'm so excited to talk to you guys. >> We're excited to talk to you. What's going on?

So my question is my husband and I would like some advice of what to do in our situation specifically about paying off our mortgage. So we are in the process of adopting a baby and we would love to be completely debtree before the baby comes. We have no debt except $16,000

that's left on our mortgage.

>> Wow. >> And we're wondering if when we Yes.

We've been working so hard and listening to your show and just so inspired by all the callers. it it's really motivated us to get to this place and we're excited where we're at. >> Um, but we're wondering if when we get

down to the last 8,000 on the mortgage if we can just use part of our emergency fund to pay it off because >> we're just itching.

>> Would it be taking it from 6 months to three months?

>> It would. So, we have $18,000 in an

emergency fund currently. We have $36,000 in an adoption fund, which we think would cover the adoption plus time of me being off work, but we're thinking of throwing a little bit extra towards that. Um, we make about 75,000 a year

combined and our house is worth 275.

>> Wow. >> Awesome. What's the mortgage payment, the principal and interest part?

Um, so we owe about $1,000 $1,63

a month and we're down to less than I

think it's like $39 in interest.

>> Wow. >> 300 towards escrow and then the rest is

on the mortgage. Yeah. >> So you would free up just about 1,100 bucks a month.

>> It would, which is why we're so ready to

be done. And >> yeah, I would I would look at our savings too short.

>> Yeah. But what will your budget look like without a mortgage payment? I would calculate that out for a month and then go minimum 3 months and knowing you're going to stack it right back up.

>> Mhm. >> So that freedom mortgage payment is just going to move to the emergency fund until you're back to 6 months, which is probably the better move as you adopt this uh this sweet child.

>> Yes. Okay. >> How sure are you with the 36 grand will cover everything? That's my only question mark because I know these can always feel be more expensive than you intended them to be and kind of drag out longer.

>> Yes, we've already paid some towards the fund or towards the adoption. So, um it

would just be if it would be extra, it would be cutting into like my time off of work. Um would be cut maybe a little

bit shorter. But we are pretty confident

that we'd have uh maybe like 10 to 12 uh

still for me to have time off.

>> Okay. >> So, that that's covering the gap in income without dipping into the emergency fund is what you're saying.

>> Correct. Oh, I love this. You guys are such planners. Way to go.

>> So great. >> Thanks. My husband is >> Oh, we lost you. She was about to say my I'm guessing she was going to say my husband's so excited. >> Yeah, they've done such a good job.

>> Just know I didn't hang up on you, Mary. That was on your own valition. >> On $75,000 a year to save 36,000 for an

adoption, $18,000 for an emergency fund.

>> Knock the mortgage down. >> Knock the mortgage down. Rockstar.

>> That is impressive. Don't tell me you can't do it cuz Mary just proved you wrong. Yeah, I'm inspired. >> She's making us all look bad out here.

>> And what a noble. You know what it is?

They have a big why. >> Yeah, they do. >> They want to adopt that baby. And that will, if you can put the blinders on and focus, you're like, I don't need all these other expenses and subscriptions and the vacations.

I just want to bring that baby home and man, if we can bring this baby into the into the world debtree, >> even better. >> That's a great way. >> But yeah, that for the teaching on that, we always say you want 3 to 6 months in the emergency fund. And people go, "Well, can I scale down the emergency fund >> temporarily?" So my gut is always if you can at least keep three months in there >> knowing you got a new budget.

You don't have a mortgage payment. So that also changes the numbers how much you need in that emergency fund. >> Then I go, "All right, go for it. Just know you got to you want to make sure that you don't have an emergency as soon as that house is paid off." >> Right?

And on the bigger scheme of things, when people are deciding whether I should have three months or six months, is there a wrong or a right? You do want to look at certain factors that can help you determine that. uh are there two incomes coming in or are there one? If you're a one-inccome family, in my in my opinion, you got to have six months.

Like there's just a little bit more risk there, therefore you want a little bit more of a cushion there. Uh what's the health situation of everybody? Are you guys healthy or are there ongoing health concerns? That's another one.

If everybody's healthy and there's two incomes, 3 months might be all right. But if Do you see what I'm saying? >> Stability of the jobs and income. If you're a teacher and a UPS employee, well, that's pretty stable.

If you're in commission sales and you're not sure what the income's going to be, I would lean towards 6 months. >> I I got to tell you, ever since 19, I almost am always on board with 6 months no matter what.

Yeah. And here's the thing, usually one spouse wants it to be more than the other. And I'm not going to stereotype, but generally the women have the security gland flaring up going, "Hey, we need a little more security." And the guys are like, "Nah, we're fine. Let me get 10 bucks in the account. >> I can make that h I can make that work for another week. >> And so I always lean on the spouse that wants the bigger one. Go with that answer. You're not You're never going to regret having 6 months.

>> No, I don't >> instead of three, having more peace, more security. And the honest truth is that baby step three is one of the hardest baby steps. >> It's it is a sleeper. People sleep on how difficult because you've come out of baby step two and you think that you're about to have like this major relief of

life is gonna get easy and then you're like, "Oh, holy crap. It's >> this is this has got a level of challenge to it as well. >> You don't get the excitement of knocking out a debt, freeing up a payment." >> That's what it is. >> The gazelle intensity like you still need the gazelle intensity without all of the fanfare.

Well, it's what you described earlier, which is the why kind of gets hidden when you're paying off the debt. The why is right in front of your face. You're like, I see you, Sally May, and I hate your face. And so, you're ready to like make the debt payment.

When you're saving money, you feel good about the fact that you're paying yourself, but it just doesn't have the same >> you got you got to manufacture the tenacity. >> Well, it's like paying into an insurance plan. and you're like, "Great. I'm glad this is helping to cover me in case of something happens, but this is not exciting to pay for.

>> I don't love this. >> Nobody's stoked to pay for their auto insurance for the year, but you're real happy you have it, >> right?" And once you do see that 6 months sitting in the account, you're like, "This is you become." >> What's the guy? Smeaggle from Lord of the Rings.

>> Smeaggle. Gollum.

>> Isn't it like with a smegle, wasn't it?

>> Gollum. Smeaggle. Okay. >> Nobody knows.

My precious is what I'm getting at. It becomes your precious. >> Once you build it, you're like, >> man's name. Do you guys know what it is in the audience? Is it >> I think is it both? It's like pre and post. Smeaggel versus Gollum. Okay, we got there. It's the same person.

>> First of all, let's let's forget this conversation ever happened that I referenced Lord. >> We'll edit this out cuz the nerds are going to come after you in the comments and flame you as the kids say. You're going to get roasted. But it is true.

Once you build the emergency fund, it's like you built that sand castle and it took you forever and you're like, "Nobody touched this thing." >> Yeah. >> Nobody touched it. >> And even a real emergency, you're like, "No, it's not an emergency." And you'll do everything you can to keep >> Well, what's funny is once you build it, you stop having the same level of emergencies >> because they don't feel like emergencies. The flat tire is now just an inconvenience instead of a >> Yeah.

Cuz at that point, I also think your money management skills have reached an all-time high. And so, you're just you've become such a better planner. You can look at life and go, I see this coming and I'm going to plan for it. I know it.

Right. And I think that all of that just comes with time and financial literacy and >> and you get better at maintaining the things you do have, which causes less emergencies. Yeah. >> So, it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I don't need to tap into it. >> All right, George. Inquiring minds want to know. >> Uh-oh. >> Do you Do you ever just have times where you're like, I just I like I feel good about keeping a little more than 6 months. >> Oh, 100%. And my wife is that way.

>> Like whatever my number is, she's like, double it. I'm like, >> okay, fine. And you know what? It's sort of like a life fund of whatever if we

want to buy something, a bigger purchase or an opportunity comes our way or a generosity opportunity. >> You have the money. >> We have the money. So, it's like you have an emergency fund for your emergency fund. I love the feeling of that. >> Can't beat it.

If you're a business owner who's serious about growth, you've got to be at Entree Leadership Summit 2027. Summit is our

world-class leadership conference where you will learn from the people who have influenced the way we lead at Ramsey.

You'll also connect with like-minded business owners who are facing the same challenges as you. To get your tickets for May 2027, go to entreeleership.com/summit.

Our scripture of the day, Galatians 1:10.

Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings or of God? or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ. Amen to that.

>> PT Barnum said, "Money in some respects is like fire. It is a very excellent servant, but a terrible master." >> Ooh, it's good.

>> Said the circus guy. A lot of fire.

>> He knows a lot about that. Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. Erica is up next in Dallas. What's going on, Erica?

>> Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. Okay. So, I'll get right into it. Uh my husband and I were both 31 and we've been married for three years. We're currently in baby step two and we're about $10,000 away from uh becoming debtree. So, I know we're not quite ready to purchase our first home.

Uh we currently are living in my mother-in-law's house and we only pay like the household bills and last month she told us that she will be selling her current house and moving back here and

she wants us to stay. And I know that over the years she has said that she wants to leave this house to my husband upon her passing. Um so I guess my

question is is it financially wise to

stay in the house although it's legally not ours or would it be um better for us

to just save up and buy our own home once we're ready? I totally

um I I understand the the the

allure of thinking, oh, we could just stay in this house. It's going to be his one day anyway, but the reality is you'd be living with the mother-in-law. And I just think that something like that would drive a person crazy after a while. Um and the truth is that was never your goal.

You never sat down with your husband and said, "You know what would be great? let's live with your mother-in-law for, you know, maybe another 20 years until she passes and then we'll get the house. Like, that wasn't the goal. The goal is let's save up and buy a house of our own.

So, I think that you should continue down the path of your original goal.

circumstances change and she moves back in, that just means you've got to move out sooner and maybe you rent for a while someplace else. Um, but don't let that affect what you initially set out to do.

Okay. Yeah, we um I'm currently in

nursing school and I should be graduating next May and I I already have a job lined up. So, I know that we'll be able to start saving at least a year and

a half after I graduate for us to buy our own house. So, do you think while

I'm still in school, we should just go ahead and move out? Cuz she'll be moving in by like the end of the summer.

>> I mean, go ahead, George. >> Well, I'm I'm just curious. So, she's moving back into her house that you guys are living in, correct?

>> Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. What would rent cost you if you moved to a reasonable place nearby?

>> Yeah. So, we do have two dogs and they'll they're coming with us. Um, so with the yard, I'm looking at anywhere between 21 to 25 >> 2500 bucks a month.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And what what's the current household income with you in nursing school? Uh my husband, he works two jobs

and he brings in 65 a year. Um and I

only work like 3 days out of the month.

So I only bring in like a thousand.

>> Okay. 65 a year. So is he taking home like 4K a month or so?

>> Um with overtime he can bring in five.

>> Okay. So definitely not renting a $2,500 house. That's out of the picture. That's 50% of your take-home pay.

>> So the truth is we might need to sacrifice for a little while longer. and live with mother-in-law unless there's some real issues here. Are there things where you're like, I cannot do this. We need to figure something else out.

>> No, she's um she's like a second mom to me. I love her to death. And her being here um doesn't bother me at all. It's

just the um my husband, he doesn't want us to

stay for a house. like he likes the idea of being able to live here and this home

becoming his one day. So, I guess that's like really where we're not seeing eye to eye. Whereas, I don't mind living here for the next five years is that if

we need to save up or whatever, but >> if you want to stay there because you love it, that's one thing. But if you're staying there with the promise of one day this will be mine, I don't love that because there's so much life that can happen in between. And we've heard all those stories. mom takes out a reverse mortgage because she ends up broke in retirement and has a health crisis and now this house is not what you thought.

Now there's a giant loan attached to it, >> you know. And so that's where I go. I wouldn't count my my uh my chickens before the what is it? Don't count the eggs before the chicken hatches. Something like that. >> Count your chickens before they hatch. I I I don't like this idea either. Um, and

I'll I'll say this and I'll I'll let it ride, but I understand that sometimes

culturally people have different ways of living and there like family generational living is more um more the norm and I understand that. However, just from a marriage point of view, I I I tend to believe

that marriages need their space to grow and become what they're going to be. And it's just very hard to do that in a contained environment with mom there, especially when it's long term. I I just think you guys are so you you're young, but you're old to be living with a parent, right? You're young in your marriage, but you're also 31. It's not like you're 21. So, there's part of me that's like, hey, be 31 and use your

income and understand that, hey, if we want to be able to have this type of an apartment, we're going to have to improve our income in this way. and allow yourself to stand on your own two feet. I think >> that would be my advice.

>> Uh barring the cultural statement that I made earier earlier. If that's part of this and you're like, "Hey, this is just how we do it in in in my culture, then I I'm not going to uh fight you on that." >> If you're going to stay, I would have an end goal in sight and make it stated among the group that we are gone by this time. And that helps add some clarity to

the situation. John is in San Antonio up next. What's going on, John?

>> Hey. Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. So, um I am uh finishing my

internal medicine residency here in a year. So, I'm thinking about, you know, where to move for my first real physician job. Um, I have some family in

the Bay Area and I'm thinking about going there and I was just, you know,

wondering if that would be a bad move financially because it's pretty much the most expensive part of the country to go to. >> Well, do you want to go there all things? If you took the money off the table of taxes and all that, are you like, man, I would love to live in the Bay Area or is it, well, I could make more in the Bay Area, but it's going to cost me more to live.

Yeah, I would say so that I do, you know, want to go there.

>> Okay. Because nothing is set in stone, you could go there, try it out for two years, decide it's not for you, and then peace out.

>> Yeah. >> And so I like the idea if this is really where you want to go and you're going, "Hey, I'm going to make, I don't know, throw $300,000.

Yeah, it's going to cost me a lot in rent. It's going to cost me a lot to live. But if anybody can make it work out there, it's a guy making $300,000.

Yeah. Okay. >> So, if you were like, "Hey, I'm going to make 40 grand. I want to go live in the Bay Area." I'd go, "Hey, man, that's going to be a really tough life." >> Yeah. >> But with your income, do you know what it may be in the Bay Area?

>> Yeah. Um, the jobs, the base rate pays

like 320. >> Okay. So, we'll just half that because Bay Area. And now you're bringing home 160. >> And look at rent. Look at groceries, where you want to live, what that's really going to cost. And that'll give you some clarity versus just vibes.

>> Yeah. You have to think about your values and what it is that you're trying to accomplish financially. Are you going to want to be a homeowner one day? Are you going to have want to have a wife one day that stays home?

Like what are the things that you believe that you want out of your life for the next 10 years? And would you be able to accomplish it living at that cost of living? Um or would you be able to accomplish a level of that and would you be happy with the level of life that it gives you?

>> Right. Right. >> How old are you?

>> Uh I'm on the older end. I'm 35. I'll be 36 when I >> You're on the older end. What's it mean for me? >> What's this mean for me, John?

>> I feel like I'm done >> of uh I guess compared to my colleagues,

you know, everyone I basically took seven years off. >> But I mean to become to become a doctor, it's like a 17-year journey. So, you

would if you want to pull the trigger on this, I would go for it after doing some homework. I would obviously go visit the area. That's a good start and get a feel for like, all right, this is what my life would be like. Kind of pretend like you're living like a local and this is where my apartment would be. Here's the lifestyle. And then you can go for it cuz at 35 as a single guy, you can always change your mind at 37 and nobody's mad at you. You're not uprooting too much.

>> Best of luck. All right, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Jade Warshaw and we are fired up to take your calls about life and money. The number to call is88255225.

I can see we have one or two phone lines open right now. So if you're that person who's going, "Why should I call? I'm never going to get through." You might win the Ramsay Show lottery today and make it through if you're kind to our phone screener. Christian88255225

is the number to call. Susan is in San Francisco kicking us off. What's going on, Susan?

>> Hello. Um, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Um, I'm calling up uh regarding my father-in-law. Um, my father-in-law lost his retirement money due to bad investments and a divorce.

>> Now he's barely scraping by with social security. My husband comes from a family of three other siblings. My father-in-law has told us that he's in or my husband and I told he told us my husband and I uh that he's in $33,000 in

debt from credit cards and is barely scraping by between the credit card debt, food, living expenses, etc. He has

about $100 left over a month. He has

started asking us to buy him things after a knee surgery he had. Uh, we bought him a recliner. Also redid his shower to help him get in and out easier. >> That's great. >> And then he asked us, uh, for $1,000 more to help with some other expenses.

>> Now he's asking us to buy him hearing aids. >> U, my husband and I hasn't talked to any of the other siblings to help with their dad. He doesn't think they can afford it. When do we stop?

>> Wow. Um, how old is the father-in-law?

>> Uh, 84. Okay. Okay. Um gosh, I'm I'm so

sorry that that that took place and it sounds like he just didn't have the financial literacy to invest correctly and then it sounds like the divorce was kind of a double whammy there.

>> Did he get divorced very late in life?

>> Uh well, he's divorced twice. So this one, yeah, he was a second marriage.

>> Mhm. was he? Um,

what I want to know first before I talk about him, I want to know about you guys. What's your financial situation?

>> Um, we're doing um, you know, well, we do have two um, uh, children that are

still in school. So, we are um, paying

for them um to finish school. They'll be

here done in about a year or so.

>> Um, so finan uhhuh college. Uh, so

financially wise, I mean, we're we're doing um good >> in the way of there's no debt. Um, you guys have plenty of retirement. I should be clear by that by that question. Any debt? >> Um, no. Um, we pay off our credit cards

every month. Uh, we're doing well with retirement. We're putting away with money with that. I mean, we are I mean,

to pay stuff for him, I mean, yes. So, I

mean, we have to tighten the budget a little bit to pay whatever the father-in-law needs. Um, so that does

put like some kind of strain on us.

>> Um, just cuz we uh aren't able to do the things that we would like to do, >> right? Because this is costing you this has cost you a lot so far. And I mean, hearing aids are not cheap.

>> I mean, we're talking a couple of thousand dollars. I >> How much?

Um, well, he's um anywhere between you

can get them from $1,500 to 5,000.

>> Right. Right. >> Mhm. >> What does your husband think about all this? Does he want to continue helping dad financially? Does he want to put a stop to it, a limit to it?

>> Um, well, he's now, you know, after this

is like the fourth time he's asked us for things, he's like, "Okay, when is this going to end?" Like, "What is next?" Like, if the car breaks down >> Well, the truth is it won't end until you end it. >> Yeah. because you know, life keeps lifing and things keep popping up. So, I agree with George.

It's not going to end. >> Um, >> I mean, I don't I don't know what his health is like at this point. Is he able to take care of himself? Does he live alone?

>> Uh, yeah, he lives alone. He's able to take care of himself. Um, he lives in a small apartment.

know, I mean, that health-wise, he's he's okay. >> So, there's two there's two realities here. And I I I I don't think I need to say this to you. I think you've thought of this, but it's worth saying out loud for the call. We're very around here, we're very much uh self-starters.

Autonomy is good. Be in charge of your own life, that sort of thing. And so, for that reason, I don't think that you have a moral obligation to take care of this person. So, hear me say that.

However, the two things that you're holding in your hand are I have my life going over here. I have money that I want to spend on my life and my family, what have you. And then you have this guy over here who the truth is he's not going to work. He's 84 years old.

He's not going to bring in any income. And so what you're balancing is his quality of life and how that is affecting your quality of life.

you more to know he's over here. Uh he

needs hearing aids. He doesn't have them. His car is broke down. he's having trouble eating. Like those sorts of things. Are those going to bother you to the extent to where you go, you know what, maybe it's just worth it for me to help out. Maybe that actually does improve my quality of life and I'm not over here worried about it all the time.

There is something to be said for that.

Um, >> and I think that you've probably weighed that out mentally and I think only you know, is this something that really is a need or is this something that there are

measures that he can take to uh lower his lifestyle? Can he sell his home and downgrade to an apartment? Are there things that he can do to kind of fund this out for another 10 years um if he's healthy? >> So, does I mean, does he live in a house? Is there things that you can sell off that can kind of save this off from you guys uh fitting the bill?

Um, not really. No. Because when he did

lose his house, uh, through the divorce and they had to sell it, they were already deep in debt at that time. So, he didn't make any money from selling the house. So, >> he basically has, you know, he lives, like I said, in a small apartment and stuff. Too, >> um, I'm not exactly sure what it is. Um,

to tell you the truth, I don't I don't know. I if you're going to give him a single dollar more, you're going to be very involved with his finances and understand exactly how much is coming in and how much is going out because that controls how much you're going to end up having to give every month. And it gives you a very clear picture about the future of this. Is he even making the minimum credit card payment?

Is it in collections and they're coming after him? >> You guys need to get clear on that um as you step further into his financial life. And I would have your husband talk to the siblings. Right now, we're assuming that nobody can chip in and nobody wants to help.

I would have a come to Jesus meeting with them going, "Hey, listen.

Are you guys willing and able to chip in a certain amount per month, put a limit on it, even a time limit and a number limit so that they know this is not an eternal funding of dad's life?" That's right. Because he could live another 15 years. Right. >> Right. Right. Right. >> And if he if he has no assets truly, I wouldn't even worry too much about this credit card debt. if they sue him, there's nothing they can take. >> It's unsecured >> and it's not going to pass to you guys.

So, that would not be something uh I would jump in and say, "Well, we got to pay off the credit card debt." No, you know, you can keep paying minimums if you want to, but um and if if he they do come after him, if he does miss a payment, I would be contacting Guardian Litigation. They're a nationwide law firm that can help with this debt settlement collection issues. They'll assign him an attorney to help with all this. And you can reach out to them at guardianlit.com/ramsey.

But right now it's we need a game plan with some timelines. We need limits to all of this. Otherwise, it will never end. It is Bank of Susan forever and he's going to come for a,000, then 2,000, then 5,000. And you guys need for

your own marriage and sanity. This needs to stop or it needs limits.

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Ray is in Columbus up next. What's going on, Ray?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can Jade and I help?

>> Um, well, first I'd like to share a brief cautionary tale with other Ramsay listeners and then I'll get into my, uh, specific housing circumstance that hopefully you guys can give me some advice on. So, um, last year, uh, I

purchased my first home with my fiance

and, uh, which goes directly against Ramsay advice, and sure enough, the thing happened. Um, about 4 months into that home, uh, we ended up separating.

>> Oh, no. >> Um, yeah. Uh, so that, you know, was very

stressful emotionally, uh, on top of the financial aspect of that. Um, so I was

forced to sell the home and I could no longer afford it. It made sense with two incomes, but just couldn't swing it with one. So, this is a classic kind of circumstance that that you you all would uh warn against.

>> Um, >> how did that work? Was both your names on the mortgage and the deed?

>> Just me. It was just me. So, uh, >> we we had split the down payment, which is a very modern thing to do. Um, and

uh, so I had to sell the home and I I didn't quite get back the down payment, but I was fortunate enough to be able to make sale without realators, just to a neighbor, so didn't have to uh, pay commissions. So, got out of the home relatively clean. Um, but that that

brings me to now. Um, I moved into a one-bedroom apartment uh, to try to get my feet back under me and, you know, keep chugging along with life even though it was very difficult. and uh not a month and a half after signing that lease, I was laid off from my job.

>> Oh boy.

>> Um so kind of just a combination of things. So now I'm really I'm looking at

uh really potentially moving back in with my parents at 32, which is incredibly humbling. Um >> I guess my question is uh in terms of

the lease, you know, what are what really are my options? I I uh asked the

rental the property management company about a potential buyout and uh that would ultimately amount to

roughly $16,000 for only 3 months of

occupancy >> when they're not willing to work with you at all on a a smaller early termination fee or could you find a replacement >> tenant to take over?

>> Right. So, I was explored those options.

I requested the early termination fee,

um, which they, uh, wanted to be $7,000.

Um, so that would be in addition to the

rent that I've paid and then of course the fees that are non-refundable, etc.

>> Um, >> so you can't you can't go back and get the rent that you've paid, but just if you were to early terminate today >> and be how quickly could you move out and what would you still be on the hook for?

I can move I could be out of there um I

mean in two days really. Um and

>> so they'd prorate this month search >> or they'd make you pay the whole month.

>> They would make you pay the whole month. Well, I need to give them 30 Excuse me.

I need to give them 30 days notice physically. I could be out of the apartment, you know, this week. Um, I

had offered um, you know, a few thousand

dollar to uh, cover their estimated

damages, which is typical for early uh, termination fees, right? A couple months rent for them to remarket and rerent the unit. But they were very firm on the $7,000 on top of all, like I said, the other rent and whatnot. Um, so I'm what

I'm worried about is uh not being able to pay that and then being sent to collections and then that impacting my ability to rent um for years to come.

>> Yeah. So what are was there a severance with the layoff?

>> No, it was unexpected and uh without notice. So no severance.

>> Okay. And what are your job prospects now? What were you doing and how long do you think it'll take for you to get back into a similar role?

So, I was a uh designer, an architect uh

in training, so to speak. Um things are

slowing down in the industry, especially where I'm living currently. Um which is

why I'm kind of trying to regroup, like I said, for just a short period back uh back at my parents to really explore what the next move would be.

>> Um >> how much money do you have to your name?

So, I uh that's another thing I wanted to talk to you guys about and get some perspective on. Uh because typically the show has some pretty dramatic scenarios and maybe and which makes me feel a little better about myself, but maybe doesn't give me a lot of uh perspectives in terms of how you know well I'm doing.

Um, so I have uh $20,000 in a Roth IRA,

$20,000 roughly in a 401k,

10,000 in another brokerage account, and

then uh about eight grand in kind of a

typical checking savings.

>> Okay, great. So, you do have money.

So, if they were to offer a settlement for an early termination, you could cover it through the brokerage account and or your checking or

>> true. Yeah. >> What would stop what's stopping you from what caused you to look at this and go, I don't have the money to do this. I need to call the show. Why Why do you have pause on spending your money to get out of this lease?

Um, frankly, I just I wanted to know if there were other options um in terms of uh just my uh

where I stand legally um >> if I had any grounds for de debate or or or negotiation with them really. It just felt like an exorbitant amount of money.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean there's there's certain laws in your state and I don't know what those are. Or I would be if you want to contact an attorney that would be the the place to get legal help. We are no experts in that field.

>> But what I would do is push on the negotiation front because if this is it a large kind of complex cor owned by a corporation.

>> Yeah, it's a larger management company.

>> Okay. The other thing I would do just as a resourceful guy is I would take my lease agreement and upload it to AI and

really understand it better than they do

cuz that's what you signed. that's the contract they're going to hold you to. I don't think they're going to rip it up and go, "Well, we'll just work with you outside of that because again, this is a big corporation.

>> They're just all doing their jobs and they want their money." And so, I would just be pushing on that. Figure out exactly what's in that lease agreement and contract to figure out what my options are. I don't believe Ohio has

any job loss financial hardship exemption. Um, unless the lease itself has a provision for that. So, that's again some of the homework I would be doing. You can contact an attorney, but I think worst case, what is your rent right now? What is it costing to stay there?

>> The rent is uh $1,600 a month roughly.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And what are your other expenses?

Like what does it take to run your life for a month if you went bare bones?

>> Um, you know, I'm a pretty efficient guy.

Um, bare bones would be probably another grand on top of that, I would say, for gas, food, etc. >> Cuz you're still a capable man. you can go do seven side hustles and still cover

that month without dipping into the brokerage or savings. So, I would try that. I would try desperately to find a actual career job again in the meantime doing all these side hustles and floating your checking and savings until you can negotiate with your landlord to maybe negotiate the 7K down if you found a replacement tenant. So, they might be willing to work with you there. said, "If I find a replacement tenant, will you bring it down to one month's rent >> as penalty >> and keep the deposit, whatever?"

>> Right? >> And I think if you're the squeaky wheel and you do the hard work for them of finding a tenant, they might be willing to work with you. But it's not a >> I don't I would not just go pay 16 grand today to get out of this.

>> Yeah. I just want to check on though your efficiencies because I want to make sure you're covering your insuranceances and stuff. Do you have insurance? Do you have medical and everything like that?

So, lost that with the job.

>> Yeah, that's that's what I'm concerned about is I don't want you

>> riding around here. So, I need I would want you to pick up something for the interim. >> You should be able to get Cobra even though it's expensive in the interim.

>> So, that's on my list, too, because I mean, every time you go out in the street, there's an opportunity for you to be in a worse off position than you are now. So, let's make sure all of our bases are covered. And if you look up and you go, "Dack gum it, you know, with with rent, with my eating and gas and Cobra and all that, I I I can't float this." Then that's an excuse to, okay, we might have to dip into the checking just to get out of this.

health insurance. We've seen that happen, and that's where a lot of bankruptcy um cases are born.

>> Good luck, Ray.

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Lauderdale up next. Matthew, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

Wow, this is amazing to get to talk to y'all. >> We're amazed to get to talk to Matthew.

We're so excited to help.

>> Yes, sir. Yeah. So, I'll be brief. And my question is is uh me and my fiance, we just got engaged and I'm 20 years old. I don't have no debt and I make

pretty good money. Um, however, she

wants to go to a RN school to become a registered nurse, but I'm trying to convince her not to take out student loans, and I'm in the financial position. I could pay for it, but I don't want to make a mistake saying if she did not end up loving registered

nurse that I'm out $40,000.

>> Yeah. Um, when does when's the wedding?

Have you guys set a date?

No. Uh it'll probably be January of next

year. Um but she uh she has got

graduated with an associates degree and uh now wants to go to RN school.

>> Is she working right now?

>> Yes, sir. Yeah, she's she's a waitress at a barbecue joint.

So your your um your uneasiness about

paying for this is is more about is this the career that she really wants. It's not about >> you know anything else. Correct.

>> Yeah. No, it's I mean I work really hard for my money. I'm a rancher. Uh and I don't mind helping her out just so we can stay out of debt cuz once we are married I don't want to get the burden of debt. >> You're a wise man at 20.

>> That's impressive. And how old is she?

>> She's 21.

>> What makes you think that this could be something that she's just got in her mind right now, but will change her mind down the line? Has she shown that to be part like a a personality characteristic?

>> Not necessarily. Um, it's just she's

never had any family members or experience the job. And I know being a nurse is a super hard job, right? Uh, so

I just don't want her to I don't want to

spend this money and then we end up looking back as a huge mistake.

>> Yeah. Well, the other piece that you haven't mentioned is covering somebody's

education that you're not married to just has a lot of risk.

>> Yeah. Just like the last caller.

>> You heard it, man. I mean, I paid Listen, you could be calling in a year from now. man, I paid for her nursing school and then we broke up and I can't get my money back. Now, I hope that doesn't happen.

I hope you guys are married and have a wonderful long marriage, but there's still that risk factor when you're not married. You have no protection there. And so, I love the idea of you guys developing a plan to cash flow her nursing school. And that might mean, hey, you're going to work for this next year and come January, we get married, let's reassess.

Let's see where we're at financially.

>> I'd also look I mean you guys have a uh not quite a year but if you're planning on getting married in January in the meantime she can do some programs out there that will allow her to shadow that career and really get in that environment and see do I can I stomach it? Do I like it? And get a sense of what it feels like. get a sense of the hours and really do her due diligence before you were to shell that money out.

And this is the perfect time to do that while she continues to work and save up.

>> Yeah, I was going to suggest, can she work in a healthcare environment in an administrative role where she at least gets to see the inner workings of the system, talk to the nurses, and get a real feel for what it's going to be like cuz she might find out, man, I really like healthcare, but I'd rather be on the business side versus with patients all day. And so I do think you're right to be cautious and go a little slow here. And I think she's just going, "Nursing sounds good." >> And it is. It's a great field if you're the right fit for it.

And you can get paid a lot of money and help a lot of people. >> Yeah. She could do a nursing shadowing program. She could volunteer at a hospital for a while.

She could maybe start as a CNA and do that first and not shell out the $40,000 right away.

Yes, ma'am. Okay. Yeah, I'll uh I'll try

to pass it on. And then my other situation is trying to get her to fall in love with the Ramsay plan like I did about four years ago. >> Well, she fell in love with you. Is that partially due to your fiscal responsibility?

>> Well, it's uh I think she loves the lifestyle and she loves me. Um

we we we live debtree. I mean, I I live

at the ranch. uh we take care of

livestock all day long and she she helps out with it a lot and I think she's really interested but the nursing she doesn't know anybody that's a nurse and she goes on Google and see what a nurse makes and she wants to do that >> and that's that's the fear if you're aiming at a certain paycheck then that scares me because number one you may not finish school and may not see that paycheck and it might be less than you thought or it might be more stressful than you thought and she jumps out of nursing after you guys sunk 40 grand into it.

So, I do think there's some premarital counseling to be done here and we can help with that. We'll gift you guys Financial Peace University and you go through that together, get on the same page and we'll do the work for you on trying to convince her to jump on the Ramsay plan. Yeah, I think we've given you some good solutions and even for her to to to sus out the the nursing program, my bigger thing is you need to talk about your viewpoints and philosophies around money.

I'm a guy. I built my whole life on avoiding debt. I don't do credit cards.

I don't sign up for debt." It bothered me or it gave me a at least questions when you were so quickly willing to go into debt for a degree. And those are the questions that you do want to start asking now and not even in a accusatory way or with like a bad, you know, air about it. Just seek to be curious and learn about her and >> say, "I want to be aligned in every area of our life and money is a part of that." That's it. That's how you start it.

So, wishing you the best. Hang on the line. We'll get you Financial Peace University to watch with her.

Brock is in Tampa up next. Brock, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how's it going y'all? I appreciate you taking my call. >> Sure. What's going on? Uh, so I got just a small question. Um, I've got a classic

car that I've heard some mixed inputs on whether I should keep it or sell it then invest the money that I get from it. Uh, I'm a young guy, so you know, I guess any money that I can invest now will set me up later for the future. >> How old are you, Brock?

>> I'm 19. >> Okay. Do you got any debt?

>> I have no debt. >> Good. How much do you have in the bank right now?

>> Uh, a little over a hundred. Fantastic.

At 19. Goodness. What do you make?

>> Uh about 120.

>> Dude, you are crushing it. Okay. >> What kind of work do you do, Brock? At 19 making 120.

>> Uh I run like a like a landscape company kind of deal. >> Good for you. Good for you. So, tell us about the classic car.

>> So, I bought it off a customer about six months, seven months ago. Um it's a

great little car. I love it. It just, you know, it just kind of sits and, you know, I I've got money invested. I don't I don't know. I just I've heard people like, "Hey, are you going to get rid of it?" >> What' you spend on it? >> I just want to see.

>> Uh, I bought it for 10 and the car is probably worth closer to 20.

>> Cash?

>> Cash? Yeah. Everything I got is cash.

>> So, you could sell it for 20. And you're going, I might rather see that grow in an investment account than sit in a garage and collect dust and be something I have to maintain.

And that's that's kind of where I'm at with it, too. Now, what's even worse is the car sits outside >> um exposed to the elements.

>> It's not protected. Yeah, exactly.

>> And you don't want to pay for storage, insurance, all of that.

>> How many other cars do you have? >> I've got a place to store uh I've got two other trucks.

>> Okay. Can you get another classic car one day or is this the one of a kind?

You'll never see it again and you'll hate that you sold it.

>> I could definitely get another classic car. This car too isn't even like if I was to if I wasn't to get a good deal on it, I would have never bought it because it's not something that like would appeal to me. >> You kind of sound like you're talking you've we haven't had to talk you out of this. It sounds like you're set on it and I'll show you somebody to say okay >> from 19 to 59.

>> Get rid of it though. >> Well, yeah, you'll have a little bit of you can grieve it.

You're looking at a million bucks in that one account. >> That's true. But also hear us say you don't have to sell it.

>> If you were in crippling debt making 30 grand and this thing was going to be your savior, we'd say sell it today.

Nothing's on fire, but you just convinced us you don't want to deal with this thing anymore.

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We had a blast recording uh this show live in front of audiences on the road in April. That's right, Ramsay Show Live. We traveled to four cities >> in the month of April and did Ramsey show live in front of about, you know, 300 something people. The show was filled with live questions from the audience.

You get to see their faces, see their reactions, bring the spouse up to for the debate. And Jade and I had a great time. I was on two of those. I think Jade, >> were we were we Phoenix?

>> We were on uh zero of them.

together. >> Oh, we were >> this year. >> Is that? >> Yeah. I was with uh >> No wonder my mind went blank. Rachel and Ken. You were with Deloney and Ken for one and Rachel and Ken for the other.

>> George, what's up with that, man? >> I know. I know. They split. Well, we're too powerful together. You know, it's like Air Force One. You got to have one person on Air Force 2 for safety.

>> So, Charlotte and Denver episodes are out right now on the Ramsay Show, YouTube channel, Spotify, Ramsey Network, app. Phoenix and Anaheim episodes will be coming out soon. They were super fun and I think you're going to really enjoy watching them. The energy is electric. >> It's different. It's just different.

That's right. Go check it out. All right, let's go to Eric in Las Vegas up next. Hey, Eric. What's going on?

>> Hey. Hey. How's it going? Uh,

that was tall mean um cuz I kind of have a situation with my grandfather and his reverse mortgage and my wife and I are still in baby step two.

>> Um, but he's having some health scares, so he needs us uh to kind of move in with him. So, I'm trying to make sense if it makes sense once we get done with our uh baby steps if we try to tackle

and get his reverse mortgage paid off or do we just live there? Uh he said he'd let us live there without rent while we're helping him. Do we get our money situated for a down payment on our own house after he passes? We're just kind of not sure where to go.

>> Man, that's a lot to be handling right now. >> So, he's got a health scare. Is that meaning you need to move in and take care of him full-time? What does that look like?

Yeah. Um, so he's been passing out recently. Uh, and he, you know, falling around his house and not being able to call for help and stuff. So, it's kind of like, okay, it's time to, you know, move in. We don't have he doesn't have any other family. And >> how old is not? He's 80.

>> Okay. >> And so, the deal is you you move in, you help out, you don't have to pay rent, and then when the day comes and he's beamed up, you guys inherit the property.

>> Yeah. basically. Um, but he has a reverse mortgage and my wife and I just uh six months ago we had our son.

>> Um, and so the house is it's not super

old. It was built in the '9s, but it needs some TLC. Uh, so I would probably

have to frontload that before even thinking about the reverse mortgage at all, which means if I didn't get the house, I'd pretty much lose that money.

>> Do you know the numbers around the house? Like what does he owe on it? What percentage is the reverse mortgage? And what's it worth?

Yeah. Uh, the house is worth about 530.

The currently he owes 302,000

uh,000 on the reverse mortgage and I don't know the interest rate, but it's about $1,700 a month that goes up,

>> man. >> Wow. >> Well, I I would not do anything with the reverse mortgage right now. You guys aren't in a financial position to do anything anyways. You got your own financial, you know, mess to clean up.

You can still move in with him and it can still be quote unquote rentree. I mean, he's basically just using his house as a piggy bank with a lot of fees right now. These reverse mortgages, >> there's a reason they're sold on late night TV with a, you know, washed up actor with a mustache. And so, it's not a good product.

Terrible product. And I'm I'm sad that he fell into it. But this is the reality for a lot of, you know, elderly people is they didn't save for retirement, but they've got a paid for house and they see this marketing saying, "Hey, what if we could just send you a check every month? Doesn't that sound good?" And they take it.

So, I would just hold get his health back in order and and see what you can do to help take care of him. You keep fighting your own fight to get out of debt.

>> Yeah. So, like at the because we because I make about 7 to 9,000. So, I could clear this debt pretty quickly if we moved in. So that's my whole thing is

like I don't know I I don't know if it's still worth it once we get out of debt or >> Well, I mean you don't have 300 grand to pay it off anyways.

>> Yeah, he was talking about a full mortgage or something.

>> Oh man. Well, I would also get clear on

his estate planning wishes and what is going to happen and who inheritance will go to because I don't want you paying off a house that ends up going to somebody else and you have no recourse.

>> Yeah. >> And so I'm not saying that, you know, you need to say, "Hey, if I'm paying this off, I get the house in the will." You may not even want this house to deal with cuz like you said, it needs some TLC. It may not be the house you would have chose for your family to live in, but right now that's that's not a problem. That's a bridge we can cross way later on.

>> So best best uh case shortsight everything and just live rent free and kind of get out of my own situation.

>> You get yourself to a financial position and this will be a great wakeup call of man I never want this to be me.

>> Yeah. I'm telling you >> that's it. And you help grandpa live the best life he can live considering his health conditions. And you will have done a good deed on this earth my friend. Wishing you the best. Joseph is in Tampa up next on the line. What's going on, Joseph?

>> George Jade, it's an honor to talk to you both. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. What's your question today?

>> Uh guys, I think I made a dumb decision.

I took out my 401k. Uh >> oh. >> So I can transfer it.

>> I know. I took it out. I have it in the form of a check so I can transfer to a Roth IRA. >> Wait, was it like a direct rollover check?

>> Um yeah, that that was my intention.

Like it's not. And is it made out to you or to the next institution?

>> It's made out to the next institution.

>> Okay, that's good. We're still good.

>> But the institution I'm trying to roll it over to is saying that the account that I have would have to be closed and liquidated with them so they can open up

a new IRA to put this money in. But I

may face tax implications.

>> I think what you're talking about is the prattle rule.

Yeah, that's something you can look into. So, basically, if you have a traditional account that has money in it and you're trying to convert, is do you know what type of money this is? Is it all traditional or all Roth? Is it both?

>> This is It's just a 401k savings plan.

It's It's all >> traditional, but I'm trying to put it into a I'm trying to put it into It's called a later traditional IRA.

>> I've never heard of that one. >> Me neither.

Tell us about it. Why is it different?

>> Um, what it says here, money change your

later IRA account.

>> They're saying that I can only have one later IRA. I It's their name for their investments account later with Acorns.

>> They're saying that >> that's where you're trying to roll this into.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I would try to use a more reputable institution to roll this over into like a Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab. They're going to be much easier to work with and you you should be able to contact them and say, "Hey, I need this check to be voided and made out to >> this other institution."

>> Oh, okay. Cuz at this point, I mean, I was getting ready to crash out on these guys at Acorns and shut the account and put it back into Fidelity. >> Yeah. I don't know the exact reason. I'm just I'm trying to think of why they would block you and say they need to close this account, liquidate it, open a new one. And my guess is there's some function where they can't do a rollover into an existing account,

>> right? They can't have it into an existing account and they won't let me have two of these investments account with their institution. >> Yeah, I think George is right. I think you just need to knock on another door and go to another bank.

>> Cuz I've done this with my my wife used to work at Ramsay for 9 years and so we transferred her 401k. It hadn't, you know, they ended up doing it as a check and then I literally took a picture of that, deposited it into a Vanguard rollover IRA. So that's what you're looking for is a rollover IRA with Fidelity, Vanguard, or Schwab. That's what I would recommend.

>> And then contact the original institution and have the check reissued or whatever. That's right. Yes, cuz I don't know enough about Acorns, but I don't know that they accept 401k rollovers. Or if they do, they're clearly making it very difficult.

>> They are. >> Okay. >> Cuz I'm seeing here, as I looked it up, Acorns Later is designed for new contributions only, not for receiving rollovers from workplace retirement plans. So, you you chose the wrong uh the wrong brokerage to mess with, unfortunately. Joseph, >> sorry, but at least you didn't withdraw the funds into your bank account. God, cuz you'd be uh on the hook for some taxes, my friend. So, direct for anybody

listening out there, if you leave your employer for any reason, you can do a direct rollover in kind. So, from a traditional 401k to a rollover traditional IRA or Roth to Roth, and you

want to make sure that you don't see the money, the money goes from one institution to the other institution.

That's the way to do it without penalties and fees.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw taking your calls on Money and Life at88255225.

Sarah is in Spokane, Washington. Up next, Sarah, what's going on?

>> Um, so my question is that um my husband

and I have been debtree from about 2013

up until this year. Um, and my husband is um an alcoholic but got sober in

January. >> Good. um and replaced alcohol with spending. So now we have $38,000 in debt.

And um so he is now unfortunately not

sober again, but now wants to pay off the debt. >> He's not sober now, but he wants to pay off the debt.

>> Yes. It's the opposite of what traditionally happens, I think.

>> And the 38,000 is that all sorts of different things or was it like one vehicle? because $38,000 since January

is a lot of money. >> Two major purchases. >> What are they?

>> Um, so one is a boat and one was a bathroom remodel.

>> Okay. Boat and a bathroom. >> One of those we can sell. So that's good. >> How much is that boat worth? >> Yeah. >> Um about 28,000.

>> And what's owed on it?

>> 13. >> Oh, good. >> Good. So there's some money there. and the bathroom. You were on board with that a little bit, I got to believe.

>> Hard to sneak that one past you.

>> Yeah. So, I was until they came back with the quote and then I said no and he signed the papers >> without you. Mhm. Okay.

>> Okay. So, the good news is there's money to be made back on the boat and then we can cash flow the payoff of the rest of this. Is he working? Is he able to hold down jobs?

>> Yes. >> Okay. What does he earn and what do you earn?

Um, so together we earn just under 300.

>> Wow, great income. So that's nice. We'll clean this up fast. I mean, if you sell the boat, you'll profit 15,000 and apply

that to your 25,000 left on the bathroom loan.

>> Well, so my question is more, so we have the money. >> Um, we have I have 50,000 in savings and

I have um 35,000 additionally in a um

emergency fund. >> Okay. Um, however, the last year of our

life has been incredibly volatile with a lot of things that we've not seen coming

that we've had to cash flow. So, I'm just worried about draining savings. Um,

he has some stocks that he plays with

that he needs to sell to pay for this and I'm worried about the tax implications for that. I just don't know the like we can pay it off. I just don't know the best way to do it. >> I I'll tell you my thing that I'm a little concerned about. You said your concerns. My concern is if he's back drinking again and you guys have this stellar income, does this have the ability to affect his job and his employment, therefore putting you guys at in a in a really tough situation financially?

>> Um, it hasn't ever is all I >> So, he's a pretty functional alcoholic.

>> Very.

>> Well, here's the thing. You can move around the money, pay off the debt, but it's not changing this underlying problem, which is your marriage and his addictions, >> right? >> You guys are not on the same page. He's making moves behind your back. You doesn't seem like you have much of a vote here and you're realistically worried about the future. Now, I would pay off the debt and I would sell the boat. It's not going to put you in dire straits to do all of this to knock out the debts.

What I would do is put some guard rails in place so that neither of you can make

any more stupid financial decisions. And that means we're going to freeze both of our credits. We're going to pull both of our credit reports today. You can go to annualcreditreport.com, pull those for free to get everything out on the table and he needs to be very much involved in this. Is he on board to rectify the

situation and get his life and marriage back?

Um, that's to be determined. I don't I can't answer that. >> I think I would go I think I I would go to a further extreme on this. I don't think that you can give access to an

addict to the money. I don't think he can have access to the money cuz the problem is he's going to spend it.

Whether it's signing a, you know, a bathroom contract that you didn't agree to or >> toys, gambling. I mean, it sounds like he's just looking for every vice possible. So, I think that you have to have that conversation and figure out um on the side and and possibly with some counsel what it can look like for you to

um have access to this and maybe you I it doesn't sound like he would work with you on this to say, "Hey, uh I'm worried. I'm worried about me. I'm worried about you. I'm worried about the family." Do you guys have kids?

>> We do. >> How many?

>> Three. >> Three. Yeah. I'm worried about the kids.

we're unsafe. And so the only thing that I can do to stay in this environment with the kids for it to be safe is I have to have access to the money because I have to make sure that mortgage is paid. I have to make sure that the needs are met financially and that you don't mess things up for us going forward for the long term. If you're not able to do that, then I have to make other arrangements, >> which means you're the gatekeeper.

And in order to make sure that you're safe and until he shows himself to be trustworthy, >> uh, which means he is sober, making wise financial decisions over a long period of time, I do think it's wise not to quote unquote separate your finances, but to make sure that he does not have access to this money to make bad decisions with, >> right? Cuz you're still keeping him a breast of what's going on. He can still look at the budget. Like it's not to say that he can't.

It's just to say, "Hey, you used to be able to have this debit card and go and spend spend spend. Now I'm I'm going to do be the one that pays the bills without of our money. I am going to be the one that handles the money basically." Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. I mean, it's I do handle it already. Um >> Right. but he's got a debit card in his wallet and he can go out and he has

worried about like give us the top priorities of things that you would be worried about >> right now with your finances.

>> My biggest thing is if we were to drain

the savings and then we had we've had a couple like $10,000 emergencies come up

in the last year because of other circumstances that we've cash flowed.

Um, and so I just am worried that those

may come up and we've already drained our savings to now pay for that. >> No one's asking you to drain the savings. I mean, if you if you sell the boat and pay off the bathroom remodel, you're still left with liquid, you know, 50 grand, >> okay? >> And you're not going to have a $50,000 emergency and you can probably cash flow that now that you're you'll be completely debtree with a full emergency fund with $300,000 coming in. M and so

you guys are in actually a really decent spot financially, but it's more of the whatifs and is he going to get better and will you guys work together and will this addiction get worse?

>> Those are the parts we need to deal with. >> How long was he an alcoholic before he got sober this this last time?

>> Um so this is the first and only time so far and it's been 20 years.

>> Okay. >> Wow. What what gave him the ability to get sober that first time? Was there one

thing? >> Um, it our son was also an addict and went

through rehabs. >> Wow.

>> And so >> it was an eye opener, but yeah, >> but it wasn't enough.

>> I know. >> Yeah, >> our son is one year sober.

>> Okay, that's good. Listen, we're rooting for you. You've got you've got your work cut out for you. And I think the best thing you can do is control your actions. You can't control his. So you can decide what your boundaries are going to be, what you want, the picture you want for money that makes you feel safe and you can act on those things.

You don't have to and you can't wait for somebody especially somebody who's not in a healthy place at this moment but rooting for you guys.

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We're headed to Grand Rapids up next.

Kenzie joins us there. Kenzie, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hi, thanks for having me.

>> Absolutely. How can Jade and I help today? >> All righty. My husband and I have been married for almost a year now. We've been essentially running from my father-in-law for almost 3 years. We do not pay a monthly flat rate rent.

Rather, we pay just the monthly expenses like propane, electric, and minor repairs. Um, so we're very fortunate to be in this situation as it has allowed us to stay save. Um, but I'm to the point where I want out of this house.

Um, I prefer for my father-in-law to just be my father-in-law at this point, if you know what I mean. >> Yes, I do. Um, instead of your landlord.

>> Yes. >> Now, he's not Is he living there or is this just a house he owns that you guys are? >> No, this is just an extra house that he owns. It's paid off and everything. He It's I don't know. He He's like gifting

it to us like just to live there for free. Um, he means no ill will by it by any means, >> but you feel it.

>> Yes. Are there some strings attached relationally?

>> Not exactly. And I don't think he

intends to do anything purposely, but I just kind of feel obligated to do certain things. Um, so I think it's time for >> us to get out. Um, but my husband and I do not agree >> um on this. He wants to wait until we have enough cash to purchase a home, whereas I'm okay with starting to look now um and having a mortgage. So, oh, so

he wants to do like he the 100% downplay. >> Yeah. Not just saving a down payment. Oh gosh. How much is that going to cost? >> Yeah. What's the number?

>> Um, I'd say 250 to 300.

>> How much do you guys have now?

>> Um, we have roughly 120,000. We have

51,200 in our savings. And then we have 68,445

in a CD. >> Okay. How long would it take to to re

realistically do this? Which means you've got a 3 to six month emergency fund and you've got the cash money for the house.

>> I would say 3 to four years.

>> Okay. >> What do you guys make a year?

>> Uh we bring home Well, we don't bring home. Uh we make roughly 110 to 120.

Just depends on overtime. Um, and I will say this is my first year like with an actual salary. Um, >> okay. >> So, it'll >> So, you're essentially living on 60 and banking 60 in a year if it goes well.

>> Yeah. >> I think I'd like to hear more from you because I I mean, I'm thinking about Mike's situation. My husband and I, we rented a house from Sam's mom, which is

my mother-in-law, and we did that for 10 years almost while we paid off debt, saved up a down payment for a house. Um,

and I I Like I understand what you mean, which is that per like Nina is the best.

Like she gave us so many breaks, but I

still always felt a thing. Like I was grateful, but at the same time, when it was time to move into our own place, I was really excited to have our own place. But I want to know cuz a lot of that can live in our own minds, too. And yes, it does affect the relationship, but because he's not living there and because it sounds like he's happy to do

this service, it sounds like maybe there's more to it. But there's part of me that's like, "Hey, don't block the blessing." Like, if there's a blessing here, don't block it. Um, is there more

we should know about it before I say that? >> I think it just feels like we're leeching off of it. In my opinion, it feels like I'm leeching off of his dad and I don't ever want to be like relying on somebody else. >> Okay, that now we're getting somewhere.

What if you paid rent?

>> What if you paid a reasonable rent instead of just um you know, utilities

and things like that?

>> Cuz that'd still be cheaper. >> I don't think he would take it. He's a very stubborn man. I don't think he would allow us. >> What would it cost to rent elsewhere right now if you guys were to leave today and go rent if you weren't ready for the house?

>> 1,200 at least, I'd say.

>> Okay. I mean, I'm just trying to do the math of the reality. So, 1,200 bucks times, let's say, a year, that's 14 grand less that you would bank.

>> Yeah. >> In the year. >> And I'll throw in another wrench. We are expecting our first child in November.

>> Oh, that's great. >> Um, so maybe I am just being a little

bit dramatic here and I need to suck it up for another couple years. Um, since we are having a child, >> what you could do if if you really wanted to, but to your point, he's not going to take it. You could pay $1,200 into an account and just say, "This makes me feel better." And when you're ready to move out, you could say, "Grandpa or dad-in-law, this is, you know, however much money this is, $50,000." And he's not going to take it. And then you're going to say, "Well, I really tried.

And it's okay for somebody to give you a gift cuz think about it like this. Um, if you had the ability to do something like this for your children's children,

for your children, would you do it?

>> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. So, that's a joy that he has to be able to do that. And so, I think sometimes it's hard to be on the other end of somebody else's generosity.

It doesn't sound like it's stunning your growth. Like if I was concerned that it was really >> if you guys weren't saving any money, there was a bunch of strings attached, the relationship was awkward and strained, then I'd say, "Hey, it's worth getting out and paying the 1,200 bucks." But to Jade's point, this it feels like we're just blocking a blessing because it feels weird and it it is hard to accept generosity.

>> U but I I think that's >> that's okay for a season. If this was 10 years and you guys weren't moving forward, but you guys have a baby on the way, you're banking 60k a year to save up for this house. >> And can I also tell you, Kenzie, it's okay if you guys went and got a 15-year mortgage where the payment was no more than a quarter of your take-home pay.

And then you pay that off cuz the truth is the goalpost will keep moving with this house. That $300,000 house four years from now is a $375,000 house.

>> Yeah. And I feel like uh to a certain extent like the mortgage would make us save more if that makes sense cuz right now we're living there kind of rent free. We don't really have like yeah we have a budget but we're kind of >> you're getting go you can yeah you can

>> be a little more comfortable and have a little more of your luxuries >> um when you don't have.

>> So that's where I'm going. Could you save 70 instead of 60? I think you might

be able to do even better if you guys got really focused and went, "All right, it's not going to be 3 to four years.

It's going to be May of 2028, we are out

of here." >> Mhm. And whatever we have saved, that's the that's the down payment. >> That might be a nice compromise cuz it gives you a timeline. So, this is not an endless, well, maybe, but then four years from now, the house price has moved.

We want a different house cuz we have two kids now. Need to save up 500,000. So that's where I would come to a compromise where you guys land on something a little more solid. >> I like that plan >> vibes.

>> I like that plan, too. Good old compromise. >> Boom. That I want nobody to win.

>> Yes. >> That's so great. Well, congrats on the baby, Kenzie. >> Thank you. Thank you guys. >> That's so exciting. That's a good You know, Jade, this is a good time to remind people that the principles around housing. Dave has always said >> that the best plan is 100% down plan.

You can do cash. We We love that.

>> Yeah, but we won't yell at you if you get a 15-year mortgage. It's the only debt we won't yell at you for where the payment is no more than a quarter of your take home. That's right. >> So, I'm doing the crunch of the numbers for them.

A $300,000 house with $100,000 down on a 15-year, probably looking at about two grand. >> Yeah. >> Good. So, if they take home 8 grand, they're right there in the parameter.

They could go buy a house today. Now, they're going to take on the burden of home ownership, which comes with its own >> That's true. joys, highs, lows, roller coaster, >> adulting. Yeah.

>> It needs a new HVAC the week after we move in with a brand new baby.

>> Yes. But I to your point, the the goalpost is always going to move here.

And I would hate for that to keep somebody from jumping in with both feet, you know, um to save up three or 350,

that's a great thing. But if it's going to take you six years to do it, well, now suddenly that 350 isn't going to get what you thought it was going to. And now you're going, "Well, I can't save as fast as inflation's happening in the housing market." And if you saw what happened during the pandemic, I mean, it was insane. It was absolutely that $300,000 home 18 months later was $500,000, >> right?

And here's the thing you have to remember for the person who jumped in, they were like, "This is great." >> If you bought a house in 2019 or real early 2020, you were like, "Score." >> Yes. That's why I'm like, jump in.

aligned and everything is perfect. It's when you can afford it and if you can do it, I say jump in. Real estate is a ladder. You know, start at the lowest rung that you can get in on and don't be afraid to climb it until you get into the house that you want.

>> You lock in that mortgage payment for the duration of the loan. So, you're not dealing with that moving goalpost anymore and insurance going up, which that's a piece to factor in. And the last piece is, you know, thinking about Kenzie's situation with a kid on the way.

>> Well, that might change the figures and facts to I would be planning for that option >> always, >> which means you don't want to have a giant payment and jump into a house too early. There is this Goldilock sweet spot and that's that 25% and maybe factor it off his income and where that's going >> to give you that flexibility. So that's the point of the baby steps is to give you option, margin, meaning all of that

is is built into the plan.

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In a perfect world, we could get to every single call and question here on the show, but we have a solution. If you have a money question, you want an answer for your situation that's personalized. Head over to our website and use Ask Ramsay.

It's our free AI tool that is built and trained on proven Ramsay principles, so you're not left guessing, is this what I should do? What would Dave or Jade or George or Rachel or John say? You'll get the answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. So, go check it out for yourself. Ramseyolutions.com and you'll see that little search box to enter in your question or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. R.J. is in Greensboro, North Carolina up next.

R.J., welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, how you guys doing today?

>> We're doing great. >> Thanks for having me on. So, I'll try to keep this short and sweet. So, me and my wife are just starting out getting getting started with the baby steps and we're still working on baby step one.

So, >> thousand off yep, thousand bucks. So, um

that goal doesn't seem too unattainable at all. Um >> most people do it in 30 days >> just for a little milestone there.

>> And that's where we should be at. Um, I'm thinking within the next like 30 days, we should definitely be there.

>> Okay. >> So, >> I guess my question is more towards baby step two when you start paying off consumer debt. Um, to us it seems like

we just have so much debt that needs to

be paid off and we just feel like we don't make enough money to like actually

make that happen within like a reasonable time frame.

>> And that may be the case. I mean, what you're discovering is something that everybody's got to look at. Um, not just you, R.J., for anybody who's considering the baby steps and looking at their debt. There's really two ways out of this, George. You've either got to lower your lifestyle, R.J., or increase your

in your income or do a combination of both. That's the only options really that a person has. So, if you're looking and going, man, on our income, this thing is going to take forever. Then you already know income's got to go up. So let's talk about what that is. >> Pull some levers. So how much total consumer debt do you have?

>> So right now I think we have somewhere between 80 and 85,000.

>> All right. And what is your household income? >> Uh household income we're about 70 grand. >> Okay. And in the 8085, what's the what's

the split there? Break it down for us.

>> Um so most of it is student loans from

me. Wife doesn't have any student loans.

How much? >> Um I'm about 50,000 in student loans.

>> Okay. And the other 30 35, what's that?

>> Uh so we have about 15,000 in a car. Um

and then just just random little personal loans. Those are about 300 400 each. I want to say about maybe five or six of those. >> Okay. What's the car worth if you sold it? Private party.

>> Private party if I sold it probably be about seven to eight grand.

>> Oh wow. How did you get that for underwater on it? Do you roll over negative equity?

>> Um, no. I think we just have just very bad credit. So, we just got a terrible interest rate and >> Understood. >> Okay. >> All right. Well, I mean, you're right. I mean, what are you guys bringing home?

484,900 a month. >> Um, yeah, I think that's what we calculated. I know last month we had a little extra because my wife got a bonus from work, which she doesn't normally get. Um, so that kind of helped us out a bit and like I said, we we're just starting.

We're trying to use the every every dollar app and >> it seemed to help us out, you know, that first month. Of course, we forgot to budget for the second month, so we're not using it now. Um, >> that's the thing about budgets. You got to do one every month.

>> Yeah.

You can still log in at any time and complete the one for May, even though, you know, we're we're almost midway through, but go ahead and do that because every day that you get on a plan, you're on a plan and that's a better trajectory for you. So, on the 4,900, were when you did the every dollar budget, were you in the were you in the green? Was it an every dollar budget or were you in the red or tell me what you saw? >> At first, At first we were in the red.

Um, and then we just kind of shuffled some things around just to kind of make it work to be in the green. So, we did kind of figure out how to get into the green. I guess it's just being realistic

like >> with us, we we never know when things are going to come up. So, like we with three kids and you know, kids come with us on field trips or school school things and you know, some emergencies have popped up over the past couple of months. So, >> so let's talk about how to budget for that because that is life and your budget should be able to be realistic for your life. I always say a good budget is detailed, realistic and flexible.

So, you need that flexibility because there's real life, but you also need the the the the detailed nature of it because that's going to help you have something concrete monthtomonth.

little bit of extra money for you. You know, on 4,900, it's not going to be a whole lot. Maybe it's $100 there. That's just held for something that you completely forgot about.

Oh my gosh, the field trip. But really, what you need on that budget is a line item for, you know, your kids, whether it be um uh school lunches or school projects. And you set the amount. And if it's beyond that amount, sometimes you do have to say, "We're not doing this one, you know." And so the more you do a budget, for most people, it takes 90 days to lock in what you would call kind of a sustainable, you know, this flows with my life budget.

You've only done one, so that's okay. Keep doing it.

Oh gosh, we didn't schedule for the kids stuff. Now that's part of the budget from now on. Oh my gosh, we didn't schedule for birthdays. Now we realize that's something we need to think ahead of when we have our budget meeting every month.

Cuz what should be happening, George, is you guys sit down and you're racking your brain for the things that could pop up. She's racking rocket racking her brain for the things that could pop up. And together you guys are saying, "Oh yeah, hey, don't forget about that trip. Oh yeah, don't forget about grandma's birthday.

Oh yeah, don't forget, you know, >> you're interrogating the kids about what's coming up, looking at their little calendars they brought home from school cuz they those kids, you can't trust them to remember every little thing.

what in the world is this? Okay, put you know, yet another budget. Everyone's got to chip in three bucks. >> Exactly. So we get it, R.J. Okay. Um, so

that's the first rhythm that I want you to start developing because that's going to be so important to you guys walking these baby steps. The budget must be locked in. Otherwise, George, the wheels fall off very quickly. And once one thing falls off, you're like, well, what's the point, you know, it's hopeless.

So, get back on the wagon. It takes 90 days just to get this budget dialed in.

>> I do not. So I have a bunch of student loans that kind of a couple of them kind of racked up and I never finished school. Um one of them I did you know one of them I did the main one that's that one's about 40 grand. I did graduate from trade school.

>> Okay. What's your trade? Uh, so I originally was an automotive technician.

I have since switched. I am now a locksmith, which I just started about maybe a month or two ago. >> Is that a solo gig or do you work for a locksmith company?

>> I work for I work for an international company, locksmith company. >> So, what do you make and what does your wife make? >> Uh, so as of right now, like I said, I just started this gig about a month or two ago. Um, and I'm still getting training pay, so that's what I've been basing my income off of. >> Oh, okay. Yep. So, my training pay I

make about 1,700 every two weeks. Um,

and >> what will it go up to?

>> Uh, so just potential of what it could

go up to, from what I've been told from some of the other people who've been with the company for a while, I could potentially be making over 100 grand, maybe 120. >> When would that be?

>> Um, that's kind of when you kind of get

vested a little bit. that'll be um later

down the line, maybe within the next year or two. >> Okay. So, that's that's really promising and that's exciting because >> that could change the game for this debt payoff journey. And so, that's what we're saying.

This is a journey. Most people do it in 18 to 24 months. It might take you 3 to four years >> and that's okay >> and it might speed up on the tail end and be real slow to start, but the key is you just keep hunkering down, stay focused. Maybe you're doing side jobs right now until that income uh comes up with those promotions.

>> What I would do is I would get really serious about sitting down with your wife and you guys set the tone and say, "This year, for the next calendar year, how much do we want to pay off?" And work backwards and say, "If we want to pay off, I don't know, uh, $40,000 this

year, what do we have to do to make that happen?" And work backwards and say, "Okay, what do we need to do side hustle-wise? What do we need to do overtime wise in order to make that happen?" And you guys set the rules on this and make sure that you're driving the intensity forward. Don't just let life happen. >> That's right. That's the saying we have around Ramsey is what must be true. Yes.

>> And that causes you to reverse engineer that goal.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, too. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options.

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance.

Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable.

I've used them personally for 25 years.

They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or call 8003564282.

Jonathan is in Boston up next. Jonathan, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> George, thank you for having me. I appreciate your time. >> Absolutely. How can Jade and I help today?

>> I'm calling because I'm on baby step 4.

Uh my wife and I just became completely debt free, paying off 200,000 of debt at the age of 24. >> Wow. >> Way to go, man. How long did that take?

>> Uh I'd be lying if I said I didn't know.

One year, 9 months, and about 5 days.

>> Excellent. >> That's incredible. >> What kind of debt was it?

>> It was about 188,000 in student debt and

then about 10,000 for the first little car that I bought right out of college.

>> Oh my gosh. Well, I know you didn't intend for this to be a debtree scream, but I just when you say that you paid off that much debt, what caused you to kind of wake up one day and realize this is not the life we want to live?

>> Uh, well, I got a job in the financial industry and I started helping people invest and I realized that I should probably start practicing what I preach.

My wife and I really uh have an appreciation for the military. So, we joined the military and I think that very squirtedly mindset um helped us really get on the right track and start taking action for uh for ourselves.

>> I love that. >> Fantastic. >> Love that so much. Congratulations. >> How can we help today? This is an exciting stage to be at.

>> Well, I appreciate it. So, we we're in a spot where we're debtree and we have about 45,000 probably 50,000 saved now. Um, and personally I'm a huge car guy and I have a lot of friends who are in the same financial situation where they have almost six figures saved up. Um, and they're buying these cars that are not depreciating. And so I thought I may as well take a stab at looking at it. And I found myself looking at something called a Porsche Cayman >> and it's about it's about $40,000. And

I've been very carefully tracking the market of these cars and I didn't know if it was a better idea to purchase a car that might not lose as much value and maybe being a a better option to not have as much depreciation.

>> Well, um, unless you're buying like a classic car that's going up in value, I mean, everything that you buy is going to depreciate. So, the idea that their cars aren't depreciating is not true.

Now, a lot of nicer cars, they kind of fall off that initial cliff in the first one to two years, and then they tend to hold their value a little better, longer, some better than others, but just know if you're driving something with wheels and a motor, unless it's, like I said, a classic car, it is going to go down in value. The question is, can you afford a $40,000 vehicle? So,

tell us about your income.

>> Uh, so my wife and I after tax bring in about 210,000. Um my my comp is set to

go up uh end of this year into next year um to about 200,000 for myself and she's probably on track to make 150. So we should be looking at around 100,000 after tax by uh tax season of you know this time next year. >> That's really really good. What's she driving?

>> Uh she leased a Volt in Tiguan with no

money down and 300 a month and then my car is fully paid off. >> Oh wow. So you still have the lease. Was that newer? Is that a newer decision or is that an old decision that you've now since learned from?

>> Uh, so the Volkswagen Tigan was in 2024

and we have a friend that works on the dealership side. So, he got us a really good deal and he has kind of unlimited um kind of mileage with the car. I I think it's like 20,000 mi. We don't really drive that much.

So, we got a good deal on the car and we didn't want to go into debt to buy another car. So, that's why we made that decision. >> But, I mean, it's a contract where you promise to make payments. That sounds very similar to debt in my book.

Now, there's not a loan balance that you can stare at and knock down, >> but I rescend my my debtree scream until this lease is dealt with.

>> Uh, I think it's 21,000. We don't plan to buy the car. >> So, you just want to rent it and then give it back and then you'll restart this process. What's the game plan?

Uh, I think we're going to buy a car in cash uh, next year for around 25,000 for her. We don't really want to go through that whole lease her debt process again.

>> Okay, I agree with that part. I would never lease a car ever again. It really is one of the most expensive ways to operate a vehicle. Um, and I think the

the feeling of we got a really good deal and you know, no money down and all these things, but the truth is it is still money that you're on the hook for unless you make a lump sum payment to get out of it. So, it's risk that you're allowing in your life when you really don't need that. You guys make such a great income. You've got cash saved. And I think you understand that uh once this happens, never again because truly lease

payments, car payments, they are the divide, Jonathan, between middle class

and wealthy folks. It's it's just really the divide there, especially with the amount that you could invest uh by not having a car payment or lease payment.

Okay, so learn lesson there. Moving on to the Porsche. So, it's $40,000. You guys are making $210,000 a year. We do have kind of a rule of thumb when it comes to vehicles, George. We say you should never have anything uh with a wheels or motors that's more than half of your salary every year. Um, so you

guys would not be, you know, basically capping it out 100 grand total in

vehicles and toys. And so, if your yours are worth 40, hers is worth 25, you're in good shape. Now, the thing to think about, I wouldn't at this point thinking about resale value and depreciation is just going to hurt your soul. That's right. So, if you're paying cash, you don't have to worry about being underwater. If you're going to drive, are you going to drive this thing for, you know, seven plus years?

>> Uh, probably closer to 10, I'd like to keep this car and maybe even pass it down to my kids one day. >> Wow. >> Oh, okay. >> Well, they better be ready for those uh maintenance and repair costs 10 years from now. That's that's going to be the problem with cars of this caliber.

You're going to need to have a nice healthy sinking fund in your budget, you know, for two to four grand minimum to

maintain this car.

>> Sure. I plan to save about 5,000 a year for preventative maintenance and to keep the car in good shape. I just thought, you know, it's a car that I've wanted since I was probably 6 years old.

>> Yeah, I would do it. >> You said you've got 45 to 50,000 saved.

Um, that's not including your emergency fund, right? Or is it?

>> Um, that that would be all our savings total. Um, we're saving about5 or $6,000

a month right now. Okay. Um, so we should hit our our $100,000 goal by November or December. >> So, I'd be very Yeah, I'd be very careful to separate that money and make sure that this 50,000 whatever your 6 months of expenses is, put that someplace separate and then save up for this Porsche car fund. And that way

you're not going to make the mistake of thinking this car is an emergency.

>> Yeah, definitely don't do that. If this is the only 50,000 that you have, you're not quite ready to buy this yet. But it sounds like you'd be there in the next um >> Are you saying you do this in November?

>> Um well I I did hit a gear in December

so my car is kind of on its last legs right now. Um so I probably need a car within the next month or two.

>> Oh wow. >> Then I don't think you're ready to buy this one because >> Yeah. How what is your 3 to 6 months emergency fund? What would that entail?

What does it take to run your house for a month?

>> Uh including rent an additional 3,000 a month offer. We're probably sitting around 6 or $7,000 a month. So that that put us around the the 25 to 30,000 range.

>> Okay. So then any money above 25 or 30 is now your car budget. And so that that's a hard line you guys have to decide. We're not going to do half down, half on a loan. We're going to pay cash.

We're going to do this the smart way.

And that might mean we need to make this car last a little bit longer. Maybe that's a a repair. Maybe that's an inter an intermediate car in the meantime for the next 6 to 12 months.

>> And you know how to do that. You understand delayed gratification. You guys paid off $200,000 of of mostly

student loan debt. So keep flexing that muscle because it's gotten you this far and you've benefited from that. Now is not the time to kind of fall off the

things that you know. Do what you know to do that's caused you to be successful to this point. Because right now, if you got 25 in emergency fund, that gives you an extra 25 in this car fund. And you said you can add six grand a month.

>> Uh that's what we're averaging right now. It will probably go up, but I I don't want to overestimate. >> Okay. But let's say, you know, 2 months from now, that's 12 grand added to your 25. Well, now we're at 37.

>> So, you're on the on the bubble of car shopping. Maybe you get a slightly, you know, one year older or you decide to wait one more month and now you have 43,000.

And so if you can just wait 90 days, you're going to be able to get the exact thing you want and pay cash. And I'd be very focused. I'm guessing you've done a whole lot of research on the exact make, the model, the engine, the features, all of that.

>> Well, George, you don't want to see my uh my little poster I have at home that tracks the trend lines of all these cars. >> Oh, that's incredible. I love the nerdery, but that tells me you're going to make a good decision with this and it's not flippant and impulsive. You said you've been dreaming about this since you were six. >> Wow. >> And you've done the work to get there.

And so, just don't let go. Don't let the foot off the gas, pun intended, quite yet, Jonathan. You were so so close. And you're going to love that car cuz you're going into it eyes wide open, understanding it's higher insurance, it's higher maintenance, and it has increased your quality of life. And six-year-old Jonathan is smiling, going, "Dude, you paid cash for a Porsche.

>> Love it. >> Crushing it, dude. Keep it up.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

This hour the number to call is88255225

if you want to jump into the conversation about your life and your money. Shawn joins us in Baltimore up next. Sean, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, how's it going? >> Great. How are you?

>> Good, good. Thanks for having me on. Um, so just a quick backstory. My wife and I followed the baby steps minus one. We did purchase a vacation house about 5

years ago, which I know is Dave's pet peeve if we can't afford it with cash.

U, we can financially afford it, but we do have two mortgages right now. So my

question is my wife gets RSUs through her job. We also purchase stock through her employee stock plan. And is it smart

to sell those stocks once they vest each quarter and put it towards our mortgages and you know and which one should I put it towards or reinvest it or not sell them at all and let them sit?

>> I love the idea of selling them once they vest. >> I would do that anyways just because you don't want concentration in any single stock. >> Yes. Enron would like to have a word.

Uh, and so it's wise to sell them anyways and to if you want to reinvest those into mutual fund or index funds or pay off the house, I would apply it to your next baby step, which for you guys is I assume baby step six. Are you guys currently investing 15% of your household income?

>> We are. Yeah. >> Great. And you got kids. Are you saving a little bit for college? If so, >> yeah, I have two kids. Um, my daughter's 11 and my son is nine and we have about 50,000 in their 529.

>> Fantastic. And what's left on these two mortgages?

>> So, I have about 270 on my primary and 165 on the

vacation house. >> So, what's the um when you sell these stocks quarterly, what do you take away from that?

you on average probably about 25 to

40,000. It fluctuates, but >> Awesome. >> Yeah, it's been it's been Yeah, the the stock has been going really well recently. >> Okay, I love that.

Um I would totally do that and I would go towards the principal, your main home first because I like the piece of having that paid off even though obviously it's a higher balance. Um >> if you had like a full 165 and you could just knock out the vacation home today, that would be fine. But I I'm with Jay that the primary home is usually the the focus because that's where you rest your head. >> And so I like that idea of having that paid off.

>> The mortgage say that one more time. >> What's the mortgage payment for your your home that you're living in right now? >> So it's about 2500 I believe.

>> And what about the vacation?

>> 1,800. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Cool. >> I feel solid in that approach. How much money do you guys have that you could sort of liquidate to put towards these mortgages?

>> Yeah, so that's what we did. We actually just sold a bunch of stock a few months ago and we we still have about 60,000

sitting in our savings. So that's why I wanted to call you guys to see what you know what we should put towards. So really we could drop 60,000 really

tomorrow and then we have another you know another vesting period coming up in June. Have your emergency fund separate?

>> Emergency fund is separate. Yeah. >> Okay, great. Man, I mean, >> I love that idea for you guys.

>> The number going down faster is always more encouraging and more exciting. >> Yes. >> And once you crack under, >> that's what I always look at. If I just can wipe out the the vacation house, it might feel a little bit better.

>> Yeah. I mean, either way, you're going to be in good shape. If you're if you're really going after these with your income, which I mean, you guys are making a couple hundred,000 a year. What's What's the household income at this point?

>> About 300.

>> I mean, if you did one, if you decided, hey, we're going to do the vacation home first, there are worse things you could do like lightning wouldn't strike you.

Nothing nothing bad is there. My thought is just for the purpose of peace and it doesn't hurt that the monthly payments more on that one. Uh, that's the reason that I selected that. But if you guys sat down together and you decided something differently, >> I mean, usually if you have like seven properties, it's almost like you can sort of debt snowball the properties.

But since just your vacation home, I'm in primary. There's really it's it's sort of a, you know, choose your own adventure here based on what excites you guys because that's what's going to keep you going. >> Where is the vacation property?

>> Uh, it's in Ocean City, Maryland. So, it's about about 3 hours from my my primary. >> Very cool. What's it worth?

>> Uh, probably about 450 now. 500.

>> Nice. Okay. And what's your current home worth?

>> About 550 to 600.

>> Okay. Very cool. I think you guys have done really well for yourselves. I think that's really exciting.

>> Thank you. >> What are you going to do? America wants to know. Sean, >> lock in your vote. >> I think I'm going to I think I'm going to chop down that vacation house.

>> Ah, I like it. I'll go back to the primary. >> Since you've done this before with the, you know, the vested RSUs, do you know the tax implications of, you know, selling off 40 grand of those?

>> Yeah. Well, we figured that out a couple years ago the hard way. It it probably turns into >> I did not I appreciate you asking that but no my my my accountant did not tell me that. And uh >> were you under withheld and had a big tax bill? >> Now we know.

>> Were you under withheld and had a big tax bill? Is that what happened?

>> That's what happened. Yep.

>> That's a good lesson learned for anybody out there who has RSUs or really, you know, those restricted stock units or employee stock purchase program or whatever it is. If you sell anything and you have a gain or it counts as income, it ends up in your bank account. The IRS wants their cut. And you don't realize how quickly, Sean, it can bump up into different tax brackets. >> And you go, "Oh, now we went from like 22% effective to 28%. We didn't factor

in that extra 6% of 300 grand or, you know, whatever you brought in. >> More money, mo problems." >> I'm proud of you guys, man. That vacation home is going to it's going to hit different when there's no mortgage attached to it. >> Oh, yeah. You'll be even more excited to visit.

>> Yeah. Thanks so much, guys.

>> Yeah. Send us the invite once it's paid off. >> Yes. >> I'll enjoy it. >> A barbecue. >> I love that. >> Barbecue. I haven't heard the barbecue.

I like that. No barbecue.

>> What was I cookout? >> Yeah, I like >> Is there a difference between a barbecue and a cookout, George? The public wants to know. >> I will say a cookout is a different vibe. >> And how say? >> I think a cookout feels a little bit more communal. >> Okay. Okay. A barbecue feels like, "All right, we're going to be grilling, but it's a one-man show here.

>> Okay, I'm I'm with you." >> A cookout is an experience. >> Cookout is like everybody's coming over.

Everybody's bringing a dish. Yes, George. >> That's that's how I see it from my vantage. >> Barbecue is like it could be any weekend. You just throw something on the grill. >> Yes. >> Got it. Well, I want to uh Sean mentioned something that I think is important to our audience, and that is when you should be purchasing a vacation home. >> Yes. Let's talk about that, George.

>> We see that as a toy.

>> Yes. it's not producing income. And even if it is, if it's an investment property, we still would say that's risk. >> Do you want to know what I think? Can I just The the public wants to know. I think our listeners have figured out uh

a way around. I think they figured out a way. >> We found you guys after we bought the vacation. >> They They know that if they come to us and it's already the deal's been done, we rarely tell them to sell it because we're like, "Okay, we can figure this out." I I'm starting to pick up on that vibe. Are you? >> Yeah. I didn't realize that's a life hack to just go. >> I think that's what's happening. >> Started the baby steps after we bought this giant vacation investment property.

>> Yeah. After we started our real estate portfolio of seven houses.

>> Well, luckily in Sean's case, they are debtree. They're making 300 grand, you know, debtree outside of these mortgages. But a lot of people, they got a bunch of debt. They still have the car loans. They have all these properties. And they think they're real estate gurus. And we go, "How much are you making off of this thing?" 100 bucks a month. actually losing money.

>> But with a vacation home, you want it to be a vacation. >> That's right. You want to be a blessing. >> Paying two mortgages and it's just really a money sucker. You've got to realize that thing is a toy and you want to derisk your life. That is the goal.

So once you've hit baby step seven, meaning your primary mortgage is paid off, then save up and pay cash for any extra homes on top of that, whether it's an investment property or just a vacation home. And if you're Dave Ramsey, you don't mix the two.

>> That's right.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you've been turned away by other lenders because your private student loans are out of control, Yrefi may still be able to help. They specialize in refinancing options built specifically for borrowers in that situation. So go to yrefi.com/ramsey to learn more. That's the letter Y refy.com/ramsey may not be available in all states.

>> Indeed. Today's question comes from Elizabeth in New Mexico. She says, "Hearing the calls on your show made me realize I want to do better for my son.

He turns 18 this year and just started his first job. He makes between $1500 to $200 a week as a bus boy. He opened a savings account on his own and deposits 50% of his pay. I was never taught anything about emergency funds or investing. I want him to have the freedom to buy a house, go on vacation, and have a good life. How do I set up an IRA for him? And what accounts should he have other than the savings and IRA?

Okay, so let's back it up just a little bit. What I love about Elizabeth's question is she's thinking about her child's future. I don't know any parent who's not doing that. However, you got

to be careful not to put the cart before the horse. And I think that Elizabeth,

if you wanted to have some sort of a, you know, UTMA or you wanted to do a brokerage account for him, that'd be fine. But for him with his money, George, I think the first thing for him to focus on is what's in front of him, which is a new car, you know, collegemals. >> Yeah, those short-term goals. And so, for that reason, I'd like for his money to stay liquid. I would not invest his money at this time. I would do a high yield savings account if he needed it.

obviously a checking account for, you know, day-to-day and month-to-month spending. But if he's saving uh 50% of

his pay, yeah, throw it in a high yield and he can save up for, like I said, a car. He can save up for an apartment. He can save up for uh higher ed, whether that looks like trades or certificates or even, you know, going to a university or community college. And that would be my number one goal for an 18-year-old right now. George, what say you? Well, I love that he has this habit of depositing 50% of his pay. Excellent.

That's the hardest part is just to build that muscle of delayed gratification, living on less than you make. Because if he's doing that making 150 bucks, if he can continue that making 1,500 bucks a week, >> good muscle, >> now we're actually in business. Cuz right now, he's not making enough to do any damage when it comes to a home down payment or a vacation. Right now, he's just an 18-year-old trying to figure out his life. And so, that's where you can step in as mom and him navigate that.

Ask him really good questions. Support him. Find him opportunities where he can figure out that thing he wants to sink his teeth into. And that might mean education. It could mean trade school.

Could be a two-year community college.

Could be four-year. >> Maybe he's an entrepreneur and he wants to start his own thing. You can support him in that. And that's the best thing you can do as a mom. And the investing will come, like Jade said, when the time is right. Yeah. >> Cuz I don't want him going to get a car loan cuz he's been investing all of his money, but doesn't $25,000 for a car.

>> And And I think that's so good. But I think as a parent, the best thing you can do is teach your kids healthy and smart money habits. I know for our kids, so our kids are on um I mean they get

paid for their chores basically. So they get paid Yeah. commission or just paycheck, whatever. So they get they get paid at the end of every week, but Sam and I's rule is you do not get to spend the money until the end of the month.

So the habit that we're trying to build with them is >> I don't spend my money as soon as I get it. So, I get paid every Saturday, but not until the fourth Saturday can I spend. And the other thing that we cause uh that we teach them to do. I can't say we make them do it, but we teach them, okay, if you do want to spend your money, we have them tell us what what's something that you're thinking before we ever go to the store, what's something that you think you need or that you have your eye on.

That way, we're identifying. We don't just go to the store and let the store tell us what we want. >> Let the shelves speak to us. >> Yeah.

We say, "What are you thinking about?" and my daughter said, "I'd like to get roller skates and I was thinking about clothes for my doll." Like, give us three things and then when we go to shop, those are the things we keep our eye out for.

mindset that you want to teach your kids. >> I like that. And we always say more is caught than taught and he's he's been watching mom. He's continuing to watch mom and so he doesn't m it doesn't matter what you say at this point, he's going to be looking at what you do. And so, I love that you're taking this seriously and you having open money conversations. That's a great start to not hide it under a bushel as they say.

>> Yeah, hide it under a bushel. >> All right, Jessica's in Philadelphia up next. Jessica, welcome to the show.

>> Awesome. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. >> We are too. How can we help?

>> So, I'm a single mom as of two and a half years ago, and I have been surviving on my own. Um, I'm a little

bit concerned with my income in the case

that it doesn't go up because I don't

have a great um a great income through

my career because I was I always had a

job to kind of support my marriage, not to support myself as a single mom.

>> Okay. >> So, I only make about 50,000 a year through my 9-to-f5. And then I also have

a side hustle, but I very much rely on

child support to get by to kind of make ends meet. And in a couple of years, >> my child support >> um I get about 2,000 a month in child support. >> So in two years when my oldest turns 18,

that's going to be cut in half. And while I'm doing everything I can to like find a better job and I'm, you know, working my butt on nights and weekends at this side hustle that I'm doing, um,

>> I'm just worried about kind of preparing for that for that change that's happening in two years because I want to make sure that I'm going to be okay.

>> Uh, what do you bring in? So, you've got 50,000 from your main job. What does the side hustle bring in every month?

>> Um, it's it fluctuates a lot. Um, it can

be anywhere between, I don't know, 800 and 2,000.

>> Okay. So, >> it's not consistent and I don't want to rely on that. So, that's >> understand. >> You want to up your core income and we're talking it's going from 24 to 12.

So, the gap we need to fill in two years is 12,000 a year, about a,000 a month.

>> Yeah. >> What's your margin as it stands today?

Like when you do your every dollar budget today, how much margin do you have to put towards your next goal?

>> So, I actually just started figuring out how to budget because I've spent the last two years just trying to stand on my own two feet. I never I'm so financially illiterate and I've had to learn a lot over the last two years. So,

and I started from scratch with zero dollars, absolutely nothing to my name.

>> And um so I'm only just starting to get

into the budgeting thing. Okay. And I would say that probably I'm able to put right now about 800 to a,000 into savings. Like I've been trying to dump everything into savings right now.

I do have a car payment too. So I don't know where my money should be going. That's really what >> we can help give you some focus there for sure. >> Yeah.

Us seeing that. So basically your margin would be gone when this happens in two in two years. Uh and I think that there's probably some places that we can find it. You mentioned some debt.

That's I only have a car payment. I have a little bit of debt um to a hospital because my son had to have surgery, but I'm working with the hospital and figuring that out. So, I'm not too worried about that one. >> Okay. >> Um car payment is about the uh hospital

debt is about 3,000. >> Okay. And how much is the car debt?

>> Um I owe 8,500 still.

>> Okay. What's the payment?

>> It's $300 a month.

>> Okay. So, we're a third there. If we can clear up that car payment, do you think >> you'll give yourself a little raise just by paying that off? How much money do you have to your name right now in savings?

>> So, in savings, I have about $13,000.

>> Okay, >> awesome. >> So, I'd actually the the $800 to $1,000

a month that you're putting in savings, I'd actually start applying that to your debt snowball. So, debt snowball is a a

method of attacking debt. And here we teach that taking your income back is the most important thing that you can do, right? Your your income is your biggest wealth building tool. So we would say, hey, first thing you need you need $1,000 saved as a cushion. Next thing we're attacking debt, debt snowball method. We're paying off the debt smallest to largest. I think I heard you say you have 13,000 saved.

>> Yes, >> I would jump in that today. I would pay.

>> What if you paid it off today and you you were left with $4,500, which is still awesome, and next month it's 6,500 if you crush it and get that two grand.

>> How would that feel?

>> I would just be It's taken me so long to get to the 13,000. It would it would make me nervous. I mean,

>> I guess I can always work more.

>> Well, well, let's do let's do math because math it helps set everything straight. The truth is you don't have 13,000 saved.

Okay, you got 12

in debt, so you have $1,000. That's the truth. >> That's the on paper math.

>> On paper math. You only have $1,000 to your name anyway. So, you may as well pay off the debt and make it so and then keep adding to it. >> Debt-free emergency fund, then begin investing. You'll be on the path if you just start focusing your money. You got this.

Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories.

But you know what else? There's more of spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the

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Buying or selling your home is a huge deal and you want an expert in your corner who is fighting for you to find the best deal for the right price or get the most for your home if you're selling. And the Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust who will help make your home buying or selling a blessing, not a burden. It's easy. compare agent profiles, you interview them, you choose the right one to work with, and you can find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free at ramseyolutions.com/ aent or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

Mark is in Birmingham up next.

>> Hey, how are you guys doing today?

>> We're doing great. What's going on with you? >> Thank you for having me. >> Sure. >> So, I have a little predicament. Um, oh,

not a predicament, I guess, but I'm wondering if you guys think that it is okay for me to quit my job because I'm

basically working two full-time jobs with my side business as well that I've built. Um, and I honestly hate my

nineto-ive. Absolutely hate it. Got a new boss and >> it has become uh extraordinarily u difficult for me to even get up in the morning and want to go. Wow. What sort of things are happening here? >> What's your job so I can make sure I don't I never do it. Don't apply, George. >> Uh, well, I'm in retail. I'm in retail.

I've been in retail for my entire adult life and uh I built a YouTube channel up

and basically now it's my dad laughs at

me because he thinks that I should just quit. But I do have insurance through my job and that's of course a very important thing. Uh, you know, I'm 30 years old now, so I'm getting older and trying to take care of my health as well. Uh, but >> what do you make from the YouTube channel and what do you make from retail?

>> Uh, so retail, I bring home a salary of

like 3,200 a month. Uh, bring home and

YouTube is kind of up and down depending on like if I have brand deals or if it's a good month, bad month, whatever. Uh but on average uh here this year I've

made around8 to $9,000 a month just off of YouTube.

>> And what I double and triple your income.

>> Yeah. In like good months I can like I've made 15 to 20 grand off of YouTube

and months before. >> I mean isn't that enough that you could buy your own insurance and you wouldn't need to be on the retail company's insurance if that's the only thing keeping you at that job?

>> The benefits. >> I could. I just I just don't know how expensive that would be. Even though I do have like a LLC and everything, I just really haven't >> Mark, I got your homework assignment right here. Okay. When you're done with the call, go to healthtrustfinancial.com.

They're a health insurance broker that we recommend that can shop for you to

find you the best, >> okay, >> coverage at the best price. So, once you have that information, you're going to feel more confident to go, okay, it's 1,200 bucks a month for the coverage I need. Great. I can stomach that considering your mental health is on the line and you're making triple with YouTube pretty consistently. How how consistent has this been that you've made more than, you know, four grand a month on YouTube every month for the last year? >> Uh last Yeah. Uh yeah. Uh last month was

my worst month I've had uh in like the last three years and I made five grand.

>> Cool. So you know that's the floor right now.

>> Yeah. I I I'm at uh like 115,000 subscribers and you know it's continuously growing and >> What kind of channel is what kind of content do you do?

>> Yeah, I I looking it up. What What are you called? >> I just want to know. >> Uh okay. Um Okay. He got kicks is the name. So we

changed my name from Mark to something else. Uh because I don't like everybody knowing how much money I have. >> You said he got kicks. I see you.

>> Yeah. With Yeah. >> There we go. >> And uh Yeah. And I've done that and I've

saved up like $135,000.

>> Well, dude, there there you go. There's your offramp. Even if you need some cushion, >> this is the channel I need to be following. >> You got the right person on the call, Mark, cuz Jade's a big She's a shoe head, I think, is what they're called.

>> Sneaker head. >> Sneaker head. That's how old I am.

>> He said a shoe head. That's okay. I'll take it.

>> It's It's fine. That's how cool I am.

>> I Listen, when you tell me the numbers, >> dude, put your two weeks in to tomorrow.

>> Cuz here's the thing. If you decide that, oh man, I want this $3,200 back,

go get another retail job, right?

>> Retail will always be there. They're always going to need marks of the world.

But right now, you you enjoy this YouTube stuff, right?

>> Oh, it it's my passion. It really and honestly saved my life. >> How many hours are you putting into it right now with your retail job?

every >> with retail I'm at with retail I'm at 40 and with YouTube I'm at least at 75 to 80 like

>> I do it you know because I'm also trying to build another channel as well about technology and trying to >> build that up as well. So I'm really

>> dude I would I would ride this training

>> follow the passion it's been lucrative for you and it seems like you have cracked a code that many are trying to crack. So, keep going in that direction.

Yeah. >> And you can afford I'm telling you, you can afford health insurance for yourself. Is it just you or is it an entire family?

>> Uh, it's just me. My girlfriend lives with me and I mean she makes like 75 grand a year, too. But I mean, >> and it's just then it's just for you.

You can afford that. >> Yeah, correct. >> Congrats, Mark. You just earned another subscriber from Jade today.

That's exciting. >> Wait, let me go and click the sub. Let me smash that. Let me smash that subscribe button.

>> That's pretty cool. And it is true, Jade. I mean, it's crazy. We'll talk to like a 13-year-old who's making seven grand a month from YouTube.

It's just a different environment. >> Different environment. >> And not everyone's going to understand it, but it sounds like even your family's supportive. Your dad's laughing at you saying, "Dude, you made n grand a month >> from this YouTube channel.

It's time to go. >> Why are you spending 40 hours a week in retail?" I love it. That's a great subscribe. >> Great story.

>> You got kicks. >> That's the American dream right there is becoming a YouTuber. Liz is in Omaha. Up next, Liz, how can we help?

you? >> I'm Jaden George.

>> What's going on?

>> Um, so, um, how can I let go of my

savings account that I've built over

over a decade? Uh, I'm a workaholic and

I work about 60 to 80 hours a week and

uh, the only debt I really have is about 500 in credit cards just I pay it off

each year. I mean each month.

>> Okay. >> And uh, and I got in a hit and run

accident in 2023 and I financed a car.

>> Oh, what's left on the balance? So, uh,

about $12,6

I think $75.

>> And how much do you have in savings?

>> So, I have two bank accounts. I moved up

here in Omaha in from South Carolina.

And in my South Carolina bank account, I have about $12,667.

>> Okay. >> In a CD. Actually, actually it's in a CD

and I have 800 in the savings account in

that same bank. And then the bank that I use right now, I have 38,000

and about a thousand in checking. Um I I

just found you guys in February, end of February, beginning of March, and now I'm just obsessed with you guys. I listen to you guys 24/7.

And uh I did the baby steps backwards. I

opened a Roth IRA a couple months ago and my savings account is now 38,000.

So I had 47,000 in my Wells Fargo and

now I just can't I can't get myself to

to make that last because I I could

really pay off this car like right now if I wanted to. >> Yeah. just take the 12,000 from the one savings account and and knock it out and then cash flow out this. Yeah, why not?

>> I mean, look at the reality of this. You pay off this car and you're left with $25,000.

Can you live with that? Can you stack back up some cash?

>> I mean, I work two jobs now. I probably could. >> Yeah. I mean, you're a workaholic.

You're a save aolic. It's time to be a debtree aholic. How about that? What are you making from these two jobs? From these 80 hours a week?

>> Uh $15 from cover from Culver's and uh

I'm a vendor. So I make $22 an hour and

I do about >> I will say this. I will say this to you, Liz. I might look for some jobs that are a little bit higher paying so that you're not having to work 80 hours to get the same result because that'll break your back after a while. If you can work 40 to get the same amount of pay, you'll get your mental health back and you won't have to be so aggressive in every other area.

But I would pay off the car today. And if you don't sleep good at night with a paid off car, you can always go get another loan.

Listen, your home is your most expensive asset, and now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money. But in this wackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner. Someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a

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Our

scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 3:es 1 and 2. There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heavens. A time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot.

Michael Alt Schuler said, "The bad news is time flies. The good news is you're the pilot." Look at that. >> All right. Okay. I am the pilot of time

in my own life, I guess. Okay, >> I was thinking >> I'll chew on that one, Michael. >> Yeah, >> thank you. >> Okay. >> All right. Neil is in Grand Rapids up next. What's going on, Neil?

>> Hi, Jade and George. Thank you for taking my call. >> Absolutely. >> I'm retiring next year and my wife and I are both 75 years old and we've been married for 59 years. I think we're in great >> Thank you. Uh I think we're in great shape financially. My wife is still a little nervous. If you do the math, we were married when we were 16 years old.

>> Wow. >> And I was a father at 16. So, talk about baby steps. >> Amazing.

>> Yes. And I was working at a car wash.

So, I understand why she's a little nervous about uh money because we started out dirt poor. Um she doesn't

want to go back to being poor. But I think we're in good shape. Our kids are all grown. They're all financially okay.

I don't plan on leaving money to them intentionally.

And I think uh here's what we have. We

have our home is worth $350,000.

We have a $63,000 mortgage at 2 and

3/4%.

We have social security after taxes of $41,000 a year.

We have a 401 worth about $450,000.

We have a Roth IRA at about 150,000

and we usually carry about 40 or 50,000 in our bank checking account. Beyond

that, we have cars and antiques worth about another 100,000.

>> Are the cars paid off?

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. Um, >> so we have no other bills.

>> So the social security, what is that 3,000 a month >> about? Yes. Mhm.

>> Is that enough to can you live solely off the social security or do you need how much do you pull out of the would you be pulling out of the 401k and the Roth? >> I would think we kind of did it and it's going to be a little hard to figure but about uh another $10,000 per year.

>> Okay. Is what you need out of the retirement accounts. >> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. >> We'll call it 12. So what's your question today? >> Well, I'd like to uh take time for

travel and entertainment. I'm looking at about $15,000 a year, maybe 20. Uh that

I think we should be able to enjoy our lives over the next, you know, 15 years.

Uh that's going to 90. Um I think I'm

aggressively uh I mean aggressively on our 401s,

etc., But I think I would uh downplay

that down to about a 50% short-term

after I'm retired, 30% in an index fund,

and 20 in an FDIC.

So, I do the math and it looks like we're okay, but again, my wife's a

little nervous and I get it. Um, >> so would you be pulling from retirement instead of pulling 12, you'd pull 24?

>> Yes, >> something like that. Okay. Yep. I mean, I'm crunching some some napkin math here. If you had a 24 run retirement, let's say you guys live to be 99 and just using your 600 grand, if you needed to pull 24 grand a year from retirement, you have a 99.2% success rate. And that's not counting the antiques, the money. So mathematically, you're okay.

And I would have her and you sit down with a Smart Vest pro to actually show her these projections to show her just how small of a chance there is of failure with these numbers. Now, if you ramp it up to they'll show you, hey, if you ramp it up to 36 instead of 24, you could run into problems if you guys live to be 100. >> Sure. >> And then you guys can have actual facts instead of Right. Now it's just all emotion.

>> Right. Right. And I understand the first 10 years for our marriage, we were struggling. Uh and then we, you know, started investing late. I had a business so I didn't invest in a 401 until I was probably 50. Uh so, you know, it went

from there. But >> what's your mortgage payment? >> Understand it. >> Pardon me. >> What's the mortgage payment every month?

>> Mortgage payment? I don't I think it's $700 approximately.

>> Okay. I was just wondering if she'd if there was a compromise here where you said, "Hey, we're going to sell off some of the antiques, pay off the mortgage.

That'll free up 700 bucks. Would that make you feel better about us loosening the purse strings a little bit and enjoying our retirement?" >> I'll tell you, it'd make me feel better.

>> Yes. Well, she doesn't want to pay off the mortgage because I I suggested we do that with

>> Well, because she's earned she's worked our way to a 2.75 interest rate and she's very proud of that and she likes knowing that we have

paying the bills. She does a good job with it and I think there's a little security there. >> You said she likes paying the bill.

>> There's security in owning her own home free and clear, not the bank owning it.

She'd still pay the taxes, >> right? Right. >> Let her pay the insurance and taxes and she can have a field day. But if she's worried about money and she's also saying, "I want to keep my $700 payment." Well, now we have two conflicting opinions. Do you want to keep the interest rate or do you want to enjoy retirement? >> Right. >> I mean, you said you're going to work for one more year.

>> Yes. If you reached over and you paid off the mortgage and then for se for for the next year you put the 700 back and reinvested it along with what you're doing now. That feels pretty good to me.

>> Yeah, I think so. And that's what I was talking about too. So yeah, I think she's going to be okay. She's probably listening. Uh I'm working out of town, but uh just knowing that somebody else agrees with me. I think she knows and

but we just want to enjoy ourselves.

>> What kind of work do you do, Neil? Yeah, I'm a CEO right now. I did uh construction most of my life, but I've been a CEO for 20 years.

>> And fantastic.

>> Way to go. Proud of you guys and congrats on 59 years. That's >> enjoying retirement. Cuz the truth is, Neil, you're 75.

I hope you guys live to 100, but we don't know what the future holds. >> And some people hoard the money and go, "Well, when we're 80, we'll enjoy it." And then there's a health problem and now they can't travel and they can't enjoy it. >> And so there's a great book, too, called Die with Zero. I don't agree with everything in the book, but the general premise is pretty good of enjoy your money while you're alive and spoil your kids while you're alive and not hoard it until they're in their 60s and you give them a million bucks that they don't need anymore.

>> There's a time for everything.

>> That's right. >> It's time to live. So, I hope she's listening, Neil, and I hope that helps.

But I would sit down with a professional who can run these actual numbers and show her the truth and show you the guard rails. Hey, you can spend between this and this and be totally fine. Even in a worst case scenario, here's where you'd be. So, I hope that helps. Thomas is in Bentonville, Arkansas. Thomas, what's your question today?

>> Hi there. I make about 50,000 a year

take-home and I was just curious on how you guys could how to afford a house.

Um, that income is subject to change due to uh promotions in the future. I'm only 23 years old. Well, I'm baby step three right now and we're just trying to build an a nice emergency fund because we're a one inome household with a little boy at home. >> Oh, sweet. >> And that's you want to keep it that way.

Let's you want to keep her at home, keep you working, and let's increase the income so that we can become homeowners instead of continuing to rent.

>> Yes. What do things cost in your area to have the the type of home that you're thinking of reasonably? What would you have to spend?

>> Uh, right around 300,000 right now. Um,

there's nothing within an hour. Uh,

there's nothing within an hour of work >> that we can afford with the 25% rule.

>> Yeah. And I was going to say, you know, the 25% rule, that's good. And you're bringing home what is that around 3500 a month?

>> Yeah, around. Okay, a little more actually. 3900.

>> Okay, 39 that banks >> cuz right now that means a $1,000 mortgage payment which as you can imagine very difficult with today's housing prices and interest rates which means we need to either save more for the down payment or change the home price and that's going to take some patience and getting your income up. So that's what I would be focused on. You're 23, that's a great income. I would focus on what can I do to start making 60 70 80 over the next couple of years so that you have more margin to stack for the down payment.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And let me just encourage you that 23 is so young.

>> And the average age now, Jade, is like 38 to 40 for first time home owners. So >> I wouldn't be in a rush, Thomas, but I would be very intentional on working on my income, staying debtree, setting a goal, you and your wife sitting down saying, "Hey, we're going to save >> 24,000 a year. That's 2,000 a month. We got to sock away into this high yield savings account. What must be true for us to get there? I need to go make more money. We need to cut down our expenses.

Hope that helps. That puts this hour of the show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 62. Financial Peace Starts With Personal Honesty | March 19, 2026


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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm your host Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author, co-host of the Smart [music] Money Happy Hour on Ramsey Networks, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Logan is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hey Logan, what's up?

Hey, how you doing today? Better than I deserve. How can we help, sir?

Um I started a business 18 months ago.

Um I've been working 70 to 100 hours a week. Uh right now we're barely breaking even. I have two full-time jobs and I have a 7-week-old at home. Um so, I'm wondering uh at what point do you decide when to exit the business?

Um and if there's a good workflow for that.

Um I guess just kind of a general question around that. What's what your thought would be?

Okay. Um well, you exit a business not when it's hard because 100% of the time you run a business is hard.

Okay. Um you exit a business when uh you

lose hope that in a reasonable period of time this

is going to be profitable and all of my effort is going to be worth the trouble.

Um we don't want to run a business for 10 years that's not profitable. That's called a hobby and a bad one.

Right? So, but you're a whole year in. Um when did you think you were going to be profitable?

Uh well, I didn't I I predicted about 3 years before we started um I started being able to take any money out of the business.

Um but I thought it would be self-sustaining about where we're at right now and we're >> Self-sustaining? Or you thought it'd be breaking even?

Yeah, I thought it'd be um let me rephrase. I thought I could uh pay somebody to run it part-time um

by now and I I actually have somebody running it part-time. We have a it's a slow bleed. It's not killing me unless I well, with with the second job >> money? To pay somebody to run it, yes. For the first 8 months we were open, I I have a I work from home. I actually worked >> What do you do? What What is the business? The business is it's a gym and then there's actually a second business which is a supplement shop within that business. So, there's two of them technically.

>> You opened a gym Yep. as a side hustle.

Uh I guess Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah.

Okay. And >> Are either one of those profitable? The the gym itself or the supplements business inside of the gym?

It's inside of the gym, yes. The gym is

profitable. They Together, the gym is profitable and then the supplements I actually that's where I run my payroll out of and that has a slight loss every month. So, they about break even with a like maybe $100 a month loss.

Okay. So, you can handle a $100 a month.

What What is your What is your income on your regular job?

Um well, with between the two of them I I take home about >> make any You don't take anything home from the gym. No, with from the jobs I I

gross >> You have two other jobs.

You have two other jobs.

I'm sorry. Stop again. You have two jobs in addition to the gym?

Yes. Okay. So, what is your main career?

Uh I am a data analyst.

>> Okay. And what do you make as a data analyst?

Uh I gross 200 with both jobs.

And they're both data analyst jobs?

Yeah. Yep. Okay. So, is there one that

is substantially more than the other or 100 each?

They're about 100 each. One has significantly better benefits. The other one's a contract position which is um renewed every 6 months. So, it's not

guaranteed, I guess. It's not guaranteed employment. Okay. And your your wife is at home with the baby.

Correct. Okay. So, you're making $200,000 a year.

You have a business that's leaving losing $100 a month.

Yes. I don't know what What's the problem?

The problem is it's not it's actually it's in a it's in a negative. I don't have the time Right now, I don't have the time to put into the business because I have both jobs. >> Well, you would had that when you started the business.

Yeah, and we were doing we were doing well and then I had I got the second job

to add somebody to run it and then this person is running it part-time and it needs about 15 hours a week of my attention to you know, it needs an it needs some overview. The day-to-day is taken care of, but it needs a you know, the a a growth trajectory.

>> Yeah, that that didn't change though.

That's what you signed up for a year ago.

Yep. Okay. So, what you've added to your plate that is causing things to fall off of your plate is the contract job. It's not the gym.

Uh yes, but I need the contract job cuz of the the I need to get out of debt.

The There's I have at least I needed to pay off at least 20,000 in debt. Yes.

Oh, you have debt. >> had Yes, the gym has about $80,000 in debt to start it up. Oh, Jesus. What a bad

idea. >> [sighs and gasps] >> Yeah, I learned that the hard way.

Oh, man. I'm catching on now. Okay. I I just I was looking at the income streams. I didn't think about that. I'm sorry. My bad. Um

Okay. >> The the the business is >> How old are you?

29. Okay. Can you cut the contract back to half the number of hours for 50,000?

Uh I can I can ask. It's an it's an hourly rate. So, possibly.

>> Okay. To where you can breathe.

Actual logistics on just time. Okay? Cuz

you have a full-time job plus a part-time job then plus another part-time job at the gym because we really just can't walk away from the $80,000 in debt 1 year in when it's

doing exactly what was projected to do.

The only thing that changed is you just kept adding crap to cuz you wanted to get the 80,000 paid off and you can't get it all done in a day.

Uh essentially, yeah. >> You stressed yourself out by adding stacks and stacks and stuff stuff to your plate.

And the baby made you realize that.

Yeah, that was that was a Yeah, that's that was the straw.

That was the straw that broke the camel's back, you know, and that's okay.

That's a that's a great straw. That's a If you're going to have one, that's the one to have. But, the uh uh yeah. So,

you know, what I'm going to do is I'm going to sit down and look at this. I'm going to talk to my wife and I'll say, "All right. For 4 more months, 6 more

months, 2 more months, 8 more months, I'm going to keep the exact schedule I'm keeping right now so I can keep 200 coming in and I'm going to knock X out of that 80,000 and it's going to cost us cuz I

am burning the candle at both ends and in the middle. But, I can't do that forever. I can do it for this amount of time and we're prayerfully going to you know, you're going to give me a lot of grace and you're not going to expect super dad to be there every time the kid poops its diaper. I've got to get this thing out of the ditch.

Okay. >> Okay. And um I started this business when Rachel was a baby and it was 80 hours a week.

And Sharon and I agreed to that.

And she never whined one time after we agreed to that. But, we also said there's a limited amount of time a human being can do this without exploding.

And so, you need to decide what that is.

You're You're sensing that that that that that things are on fire because they're on fire. So, the way to uh survive that is to go as close to the

fire as you can get without getting burned and go, "Okay, the most I can do is 90 more days and then I'm going to pull back to part-time on the contract >> [music] >> so that I can breathe again. But, in the meantime I'm going to pour the coals on and see how much of this debt I can knock out so I've got better options." You don't have really good options right now.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Kate is in Billings, [music] Montana. Hi Kate, how are you?

Hi good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I wanted to talk to you today about my husband. Um he loves new trucks and

he has switched trucks about seven times in the last 6 years.

And he changed uh vehicles twice last year.

Um and so he usually just texts me when

when he's making this change and I've tried to talk to him about how it's a bigger deal than that because we are are usually losing money on this transaction. Oh every time.

Yes.

So I just wanted your thoughts. How much do you guys make a year, Kate?

Um so he's actually making quite a bit of money now, but uh this is new for us.

So he uh founded his own technology company doing logistics and it grossed

about a million dollars last year.

What did it net?

Uh I I think 1.4. It netted? You pay

taxes on a million dollars?

Yes. Gross and net is different, you know that.

Okay, sorry. I might be >> [laughter] >> Okay, I didn't think you did. >> What did you bring home? What what hit your accounts?

Your household income. What did What did he bring home? Our household income was over 600. I know we owed a ton in taxes, so. Okay.

So he can afford to lose the money.

That's but but he's disrespecting his wife.

Yes. So we we have three kids and um

uh he's my second husband and so

this is just all I think it's just all um we're still going through growing pains of how do we manage money together and A couple of years, you ought to be able to figure it out.

You can grow a company that makes 1.2 million, you ought to be able to figure out how to manage money.

Yeah. He just hasn't bothered.

I mean He's kind of running around doing whatever the flip he wants to do cuz he's making money and he doesn't you know, and in the process is disrespecting you.

That's how I feel. Yeah, no that's that's what is observable.

It's not just a feeling.

Kate, what does he say when you text him? Or what's his response when you guys talk about it and you're frustrated?

What does he say? Just like it's So it typically it gets us into an argument because he kind of I don't think he likes being told what to do or you know, how to spend his money, but he denies that he's he's

disrespecting me or not you know, consulting with me, but his idea of consulting with me is basically just Telling you. >> texting me telling me what he's going to do. Um so that's kind of where we're in disagreement and we don't >> he's going to fail as an entrepreneur.

And the reason I know that is I coach 10,000 businesses through EntreLeadership.

And entrepreneurs who do not listen to their wives don't make it long-term.

You cannot out-earn that level of stupidity. I tried it, it doesn't work.

And it'll get you. Okay? So the arrogance that is attached to this means he's also not listening to his key leaders when they're speaking up and saying this is a dumb idea. He's not listening to anybody.

Because he's freaking thinks he's Superman and this is going to lead to him hitting the wall.

So I'm scared I'm really really afraid for him. Because right now this isn't a big enough problem that it's actually causing him any discomfort.

But the the root of this is very very

dangerous from a business perspective.

Because leaders that don't have humility and take input from proper sources do not lead well.

And it's pretty simple. And so um I mean I've got key people on this team, some of them have been with me 30 years and they're like brothers and sisters to me and they speak into the Ramsey thing that happens here and and believe you me to the extent that she wants to, Sharon Ramsey speaks into this place and and what's going on. Uh do I do we do every single thing Sharon wants to do? No, but we don't do every single thing Dave wants to do either. So um but

but you guys have a breakdown in your relationship and the power of the relationship. It's almost as if he has his life over to one side and then he comes home and has a family.

>> what feels always a little bit off. It's disjointed. Yeah, and even when he uses like well I've been making a lot of money, so I get to go over here, right?

It's like this it's it turns into this isolated instance where that's the opposite of marriage, right? When you're married to someone and you're doing life with someone, it should be integrated, right? You're still going to have your own thoughts and opinions, it's not that, but it but it's that we make big decisions together, we talk about this, we are united in these things. So all of

this to say that your your your frustration with this I think and Rachel thinks is accurate. Now, what to do about it is another thing. I'm afraid for him.

Long-term. Five years from today this is not going to be pretty is my prediction. And I coach again, we coach 10,000 businesses here at Ramsey. We work with small businesses every day and I see them come and I see them go and I watch what happens. So what what I would say is that I think

you guys have a marriage problem that has a deep deep root to it and I would

say that I love you guys and I want the two of you to get some healing in that.

And so if I'm if you're my little sister, I'm going to say, "Hey Kate, um stir up some trouble and let's get into the marriage counselor's office uh because he thinks this is okay and you've let it go on and you're going to get what you tolerate." >> And any level any level of belittling, which you're feeling and thinking too, right? They use the term gaslighting all the time, but genuinely you you start to feel crazy, Kate, right? And in and until your voice and your opinion is heard and actually honored, like it

that's going to start breaking down in other areas, not just buying a new truck every year. Yeah, it it's it's already breaking down uh stuff down at the office that you don't even know is happening. Promise you. And it could even be worse than that.

I hope it's not. But these are symptoms that don't lead uh of course problems that don't lead to good places. >> No, and it's a perfect example how money's a magnifying glass that makes you more of what you are.

And when you and when you win financially really quickly like you guys have over, you know, 1 to 2 years, it's almost like you don't they he doesn't even have the emotional capacity to handle it. He's just still that little boy in him that's just being magnified and he just got to buy a new truck, you know, and so >> a Tonka truck. Yeah, that's that's tough. I'm four.

I want a new Tonka truck, Mommy. Don't tell me I can't have it.

Yeah. Well that's the other thing, too, is I'm like, Kate's a smart woman and if you look at the numbers, to your point, they can afford that. Like if he wanted to go do that, so it's not >> Honestly, he can afford to do it. It it's just the process is usually the >> I'm saying is like it's not even that she would say no to it either, but it's just the not the right way.

I'm afraid he's scratching an itch that's not that's >> Yes.

>> cars. I'm a car guy and I like cool cars and fun cars and I buy cars, um but I don't have a an emotional need

Yeah. to flip a truck every year.

I I'm perfectly happy with the one I got, you know? And so um There's something in that, too.

>> Yeah, I mean, you know, you just got to get there there's something going on. So you guys you really need to sit down with someone that forces him to hear

that it's not necessarily the transaction that's bothersome, it's the way the transaction's going down.

And that you're not being heard and you're not being respected and you're not so you're not crazy.

And I'm afraid that the stuff that's under this is going to come to roost in a way y'all aren't going to like in the long-term. I'm pretty sure it will. And I I >> Unless Unless >> Unless you don't Unless you fix it. >> Yeah, and unless he comes aware and you come, you know, all of it and you guys start a new a new process of life of the way you look look at things and think about things and process things, all of it out of healing.

>> So if you're out there and you're running a small business and your spouse has no idea what's going on at the business, it's a problem, y'all. That's what I'm telling you. You small business people, you can listen to me. Okay?

You bootstrap stuff, you fight, you scratch, you claw, you're in a battle every day.

the and and you finally start making some money, but in the middle of that you become very very lonely if you do not have people [music] walking with you in leadership. And that and who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her and he will have no

lack of gain.

>> [music] >> You want no lack of gain?

I want no lack of gain. I like that formula. >> [music] >> Then trust a virtuous wife.

Hm. In the multitude of counsel there's safety.

I bet you 10 rich friends get around him. Not one of them will tell him to buy a truck every stinking year.

I promise you.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Well, the Ramsey Show watching this show happen as we tape it right in front of you is going on tour next [music] month. In April, we're going to be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim.

If you've never experienced the Ramsey Show in person, then you've never seen it like this before. It's a perfect date night. One of you is a spender, one of you is a saver. Come out. Rachel, John, George, Jade, Ken will settle your money debates right there in front of all the people in the audience.

>> [laughter] >> Uh tickets are almost sold out, but not quite. There's a few left and just a couple of VIP seats remaining. Don't wait. Go to ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Michael's in Green Bay. Hey Michael, what's up?

Hey Dave, it's nice talking to you. Um I listen to your show quite a bit and I am about 20 years old with about 50 grand

in debt. Wow.

30 of that being a car loan, um three of it being from a Square loan

from the business that I shut down here recently and some of it's medical, like

just outstanding medical debt, like I mean, I was in a motorcycle accident 3 years ago that I still haven't paid. Um I owe a friend of a fan or family friend about 3

grand. Um I owe like a tire shop almost

2 grand. Like I I guess my question that

I want to ask you today is like I don't know where to start with this because it feels like a lot. And I truthfully don't know where a lot of the debt is. Um like I owed a Dermatology Group, sorry, like

800 bucks and I owe like other medical companies money and I just don't know exactly where all that debt is, where the creditors are. Like every now and now and then I get calls >> Yeah, Michael. So, and it's just so >> how how has your life been so chaotic in the last two or three years that this has happened and cuz it sounds like you're just spiraling, man. Sounds like chaos.

>> I yeah. I I'd agree. Yeah, truthfully it is and

2 years ago I started my own business with my best friend.

Um it we found a building to go into and

truthfully it just kind of took off like crazy. Um and >> it and then it didn't.

>> [clears throat] >> Correct. I had bought him out of the business, went solo.

Um I got in some trouble, small trouble with my previous accountant. Um I even owe my previous accountant 800 bucks and

and they did no work for me. They filed my taxes late for me.

Um so I I'm finally out of the tax debt um I had an employee at the time. I guess like >> So, you at the end of the day you really weren't making a lot of money because all the bills weren't paid unless you were spending it on cocaine or something. Where did the money go? Um so, honestly, I was really bad at saving and I wish I did it better.

If I I'm not saving, honey. I mean, you got these little $800 bills that aren't paid.

Honestly, I I It sounds dumb, but I was. I was making >> would you say the money went? $120,000 Where would you say the money went? >> food every day.

Food >> A $120,000 worth of food?

I wouldn't say it's all food, but like a lot of just really short small spending that just leaked. I I decided to get a German Shepherd last year.

Um I just You're going to kill me for this. I just traded in a 2023 Tesla Model 3 just last night for a truck. Um

because the Wisconsin winters, obviously an electric vehicle's not going to do Last night? Like literally like like 12 hours ago? Yes.

Oh my god. >> Like quite literally last night. >> Michael. Michael. You said you've been listening to this show.

I have been. I know. I I know.

I Wait. Okay, what are you doing? What what are you Okay, Michael. Michael.

Michael, what are you doing right now for a job? What are you doing? I currently work for a automotive supplier. Um I make a base

salary of 45 a year.

Um after commission, give or take, it's about roughly 50. Okay. And you just

bought a $30,000 car.

Yes. Okay. You need to call them back on and tell them to cancel the transaction that you're not going through with it.

As soon as you get off the phone. So, but my thing is is I traded in my old car for a >> going to argue with me about something that's stupid?

You're really not going to argue with me about something that's stupid, are you?

Please tell me that you want to have a better life than you have. You keep doing stupid stuff, you're going to have a stupid life, honey.

That thing last night was absolute freaking brain damage. You understand that?

Yeah. I mean, dude, really.

I love you, but good god, that was dumb.

So, kind of can I say my point of view really quick on that? Not really. You can just call them back and cancel the transaction or you can get have a good life. All right, Jordan is in Kansas City. Hey Jordan, how are you?

Hello, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I was wondering if I should pay down my student loan burden with single stocks that I hold. You could pay down your what?

Uh student loan debt. Oh, cool. How much student loan debt have you got?

Uh just a little under $170,000.

>> Whoa, are you a doctor or a lawyer?

Uh veterinarian. Oh, good. What do you make?

Currently, I make about 70,000.

Wow. You must have just got out.

Yeah, I graduated a few years ago.

Um currently in internships.

Um they kind of begs the next question.

I'm actually gone into a program to specialize, but um that program being a

residency program pays less actually than what I make now. Yeah, you got to You don't need to be in a residency program. You're broke. You need to be making 130,000 as a veterinarian, not 70.

Right. Yeah. >> And the going market for a Are you Are you fully licensed DVM now?

Yeah, fully licensed. Okay, you need to be making 130, not 70, and you don't need to go into a residency for specialization. You're broke.

You went in debt to become a DVM. Now go be one, dude. And go back and do the Go back and do your specialization in 5 years.

Yeah. Okay. So, even even with the upside of making over 200 post post

um residency um Yeah, 5 years from now I think that's a great idea. But you'll make a lot more than 200 as a DVM that owns his own practice, too.

Mhm. So, why don't you go be a DVM, clean up the debt, then open your own practice with some cash, and you'll make more than 200, and then you can decide if you actually want to specialize.

Mhm. Okay. You You do know this is true, right? I mean, we work with DVMs all over America. They're some of the people we coach. I know what the numbers look like. I mean, the typical one makes between 130 and 150 as a salary working for

someone else.

And when you open your own practice and start running the actual business aspect of it, you generally are going to go 200 to a quarter of a million.

Mhm. I'm I'm assuming some mix between small animal and large animal here. I'm not assuming just racehorses or something like that. We're doing just >> All right, forget about the small animal or the racehorse industry, right? >> Cuz people spend money on their pets in America. Mhm. George Camel will employ

you for a full year. >> will keep you keep you He'll pay off your debt single-handedly.

>> [laughter] >> Oh my god. >> yes, if you have single stocks, you can cash those in. You'll pay taxes, but then you will have money.

And I would be working on getting your income up immediately. And try to get this paid off in in 2 to 3 years, right?

If you're making that kind of money. So, just live on nothing. So, here Jordan, look around the DVM world, okay? It is being corporate It's being taken over by corporate America. And if you want to be an employee of corporate America, go get your specialization.

If you want to be self-employed and control your own destiny and own your

business and own your own butt and not somebody else owns your butt, then you can not specialize, use this stock to get this knocked down, get your income up as an employee right now, and then go

with a plan 4-year plan 5-year plan opening your own thing. If you want to add specialization to that on the side, but I would not have it as my long-term goal to be an employee with specialization as a DVM.

And you're going to end up cuz you're going to end up working for corporate America and they're going to piss on you. And so it it it's welcome to the medical field. And so

I work with these guys all the time. This is the advice we give them. They can you can own your you can own a piece

of your whole community when you own a DVM practice.

The people that are loyal to you they're more loyal to you than anything else when it's their dog or their cat.

They'll do anything for you.

You're like part of their family. And that's a whole lot different than being an employee of corporate America.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

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>> [music]

>> Landon is with us in Memphis. Hi, Landon. How are you?

Hey Dave and Rachel, I appreciate y'all taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Uh so, just the context behind this is Dave, I had a call with you when I was 22 years old um and you told me that if I did exactly what you said that I would be a millionaire by the time I was 32.

And we were able to accomplish that by the time we were 28. So, I just want to let you know that uh you know, y'all y'all mean the world to us and my children's children will be grateful for y'all one day. So, I really appreciate y'all. >> Proud of you, man. Excellent.

>> Man. You should call you should call the guy from the last segment.

>> [laughter] >> So, with that being said, this is probably going to sound so stupid, but I'm so um nervous to make a dumb decision after what we've worked so hard for that I just had to get y'all's advice on it. So, um we're worth the right at about a million one, maybe maybe a little bit less than that, and we have 15 acres of property that we want to build a house on. Um my house currently is paid for, and the issue is I just bought this house 2 years ago new, and then of course we have a guy move in next door with his mom that just got out of prison after 20 years for child crimes.

freaking sucks that I can't let my kids in the backyard to play because he will watch them through the fence pickets.

Um not but once. Jeez.

Yeah, so it really really sucks. And so,

with that we just want to go ahead and build this house on this property, but the problem is is what There's There's basically two to three options. Number one, we can take out a construction loan to go ahead and start the build, once it's done sell our house and pay off the construction loan, but the problem with that is we feel like we're violating what we've been so committed to for this many years that it's kind of heartbreaking to do it. Um that's number one.

process, have to figure out the dog situation >> a creep coming next door though, Landon, don't don't you guys want to out? I I agree. I agree. >> I want to go rent to get away from the creepo. Mhm. Cuz otherwise I'm going to end up in jail for murdering him.

>> Okay. Yeah, [snorts] I agree. I agree.

So, you would you would just go ahead, sell it, rent, move twice, deal with the dog situation, the whole deal.

>> they they the the benefit of getting away from the creepo is it also frees up the money to do the build.

I agree. I do agree. I would I would I would love nothing more than to not do a construction loan on the stupid thing. >> Yeah, and and and you guys will be somewhere 9 to 12 months, and it won't be super fun, but you you would look at I mean that just goes so fast time-wise.

Do you know what I mean? Like it just it's going to be for a a quick time. So, and [laughter] here here's the thing. Here's the thing. You you're a millionaire.

Way to go. You're 28 years old. Way to

go. What's your household income?

Uh last year I made 250, but my income varies. I'm commission only. >> And you don't have a stinking debt in the world.

Correct. >> And the house will sell for how much?

Uh I mean I'm fully expecting to lose some money on it cuz I've got to pay an agent and pay closing costs and all that. >> for how much?

Probably 470. I'll probably lose 20 to >> Okay, and what is it going to take to do the [clears throat] build?

500. Okay, and you've got the other money. I've got 200 grand in liquid cash right now not counting retirement. >> So, here's what's going to be uncomfortable for you, but you're going to do it anyway if you follow my advice.

And you did last time. So, >> Yeah, I'll do it again. Rent something for 1 year that's ridiculously nice.

Yeah.

And that makes this adventure kind of fun. >> [snorts] >> Sure. And there it's so nice that you put up an extra deposit and they don't mind your dogs in the backyard and your kids are away from creepazoid.

And your wife doesn't mind moving because she's moving up.

Go rent an $800,000 house.

Yeah. Yeah. And it cuz it's not that much money out of the whole scope of your life.

And it makes this move It puts grease in the wheels to make this move happen properly. And so, you can afford to do all of that. You make a good You make This is not a permanent decision. It's a temporary decision. And it's making a

uncomfortable thing a double move fun.

Yeah. So, so you would do that even though you're taking on a monthly payment that you haven't had for years now. Yes. And you're taking away from the other things you're doing. >> Yes, cuz you don't have a monthly payment on a construction interest construction loan interest. Sure. Sure.

Sure. Okay, so there's no scenario in this where you're doing a construction loan after where we're at. Well, I you could if you want to, but it that would involve staying in the house, and I'm Yeah. You're you weren't kidding. The guy's looking through the slats of the fence. Um I'm dead serious he will do that. >> I don't know how you didn't I don't know how you didn't respond to that.

Well, I'm sure he did. I'm sure he did.

>> $8,000. I spent $8,000 in cameras and and equipment and then I'm going to I'm going to swear out a warrant. Well, the point is the point >> I got to get You got to get away from this. >> Yeah, the point is you will have more peace from the financial aspect cuz you already were just like, "Oh, I don't I don't want to do the construction loan." Again, you could, but you didn't feel good about that.

And your current situation, you guys I mean if I was your wife and I had two little kids Yeah, I mean like that's miserable. Go rent a I like I like when Dave likes to spend money. I like this because go rent like a an amazing >> Well, you've lived like no one else, and so now you can live like no one else. >> on a farm or something like something that you wouldn't normally do.

He's got 15 acres.

Well, they're they're going to move to a farm. Move to a farm. I don't know. Just have fun for a year somewhere. I like that. >> Yeah, pretend like you're doing it. >> We had a friend do that, and she moved into like a historic type home, and it was the coolest It was for a year, but it was beautiful, so fun. I Yeah, I like

that idea. But you've got the money.

That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, let's not let's not confuse this with somebody that's broke >> No. No, no, no. I know.

>> "I bought a Tesla last night." >> Usually [laughter] people that call this show. So, it's fun when people who are winning you might go spend and Yes, enjoy your life. Yeah, and you're not having to violate the go back in debt thing, and more most importantly though, I'm getting away from creepazoid. Cuz I'm serious. I can't Yeah. I can't visualize going to work and leaving my wife and two little kids at home.

Once this guy's got his eyeballs No way.

>> Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm I'm I'm really afraid I would lose my mind and end up in jail. >> You've said that twice on this call. >> I know. I know. I know. But it's just This is This These people, man.

Okay. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. I I mess with little kids. I mean, you know, this is not This is not This is not a good thing. So, yeah, Landon, I I I think this is why you have worked so hard. The payoff for all of your sacrifice is you got choices.

And I'm suggesting you you make this an easiest possible process with those choices. Um because it is a temporary thing. It's not a 5-year plan. It's a It's a 12-month plan. And quickly get your plans drawn, select your builder, lay out a budget, a schedule, and a

blueprint, and manage to those three things and get that house out of the ground and get it done as quick as you possibly can. >> a budget creep out of Stay on budget, stay on schedule, and stay on blueprint.

And don't not not 19 change orders. And stay on budget, stay on blueprint, stay on schedule, and you can get a house out of the ground. You won't And you'll be your builder's favorite customer ever because most people can't stay on budget, stay on schedule, and stay on blueprint. So, if you'll do that, you can get the house out of the ground 12 months, you'll be fine, you'll be on the farm, da da da da da da da da da and life is good.

Wow. The world we live in. Well, and I just love what he said though, calling at 23 and said or he was 22.

>> 22. He said told him by 32 he'd be a millionaire. >> Yeah, if you did these things. Yes. Yes.

So, it does Proud of it.

>> proves out. Well done, Landon. You do You follow this stuff, it works. I mean, it's I didn't invent any of it. I stole it all from God and your grandmother.

Common sense is so rare in America though that it's like having a superpower. And so, yeah. So, we have a wildly popular show that 30 million people tune into every week. Who knew?

But that Yeah, that's it. That That's why because this stuff works and I'm so And And you are the hero, Landon. You did this. I appreciate you, you know, giving us credit and but you're the guy that did all the hard work for the last decade or 6 years in your case. You didn't take you a whole decade. Wow, from 22 to 28 he becomes a millionaire.

And I just love Gen Z. Gen Z has got so much potential. There's so many things they can do. There's so much so many things at their fingertips and they're so smart on how they use them when they're smart. >> Mhm. But there's no middle ground.

The dumbest person on the planet is a dumb Gen Z. >> Okay. The smartest person on the planet is a smart Gen Z. Oh my god, they're wonderful and they're simultaneously aggravating.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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>> [snorts]

[music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Another Rachel is on the line. This one's in Indianapolis.

Hi, Rachel. How are you?

I'm great. How are you guys?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, it's awesome to speak with you.

Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

Um the reason why I'm calling is my husband and I are in baby step two. Um we've made really good progress and paid off $78,942

worth of debt in October 2024. Thank

you. >> Um that's consisted of medical, car, and student loans. Okay.

My question is is is there ever a time in baby step two that it would be appropriate to cash flow like a life event or once-in-a-lifetime experience?

What would that be?

Um so, it would be to go see several good childhood friends of mine in Las Vegas named Kevin, Nick, Howie, AJ, and

Brian at the at the Sphere in August.

>> [laughter] >> The Backstreet Boys.

Yes. >> friends. Shoot. I'm so glad you called on this day, Rachel. There's >> [laughter] >> You know Rachel's been twice.

Um I think so, yes.

>> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And it's so good. Oh my gosh.

>> [laughter] >> And And here's the thing, my I'm like watching the videos and my husband yells from the other room, "Dave says no." Oh.

>> [clears throat] >> Jeez.

I'm just going to see if Rachel's a hypocrite. That's all I'm going [laughter] to say.

Cuz if your husband calls and wants to wants to buy a MasterCraft, I've got the same problem, right? >> and Backstreet Boys tickets are very different price point-wise.

All right, let's just let's just let's keep let's just continue um being curious. [laughter] Rachel, how much debt do y'all have left?

Um so, we have I have it right here. We have just about 96,000 and I will admit

that's student loans. I'm in healthcare and my husband is a teacher. And your household income is what?

Um I have an NDA with work, but we are able to put about $3,500 a month towards debt because I have a side hustle as adjunct faculty.

Oh, nice.

Okay. >> I'm sorry. What is it Say your your household income Oh, you can't You can't say because you have an NDA, is that what you mean? Yeah, I have a non-disclosure agreement.

I work with the government, so. Oh.

Okay. Yeah, nobody knows who you are, but okay. Anyway. >> [laughter] >> Protect yourself. It's fine.

They probably actually do know who you are, but anyway. >> [laughter] >> Oh, man.

So, >> able to put like 3,500 a month towards debt and we're at um probably about 25 months away from having that all cleared. Yeah.

I went to the Eagles at the Sphere, which would be my version of Backstreet Boys cuz chance of me seeing the Backstreet Boys is close to zero. But the Eagles at the Sphere was a one of the best concert experiences of my life. So, I'm I can get I can get there with you and Rachel on how difficult this is. We're kind of making fun of it a little bit, but it's also it's also a very real possible It's

a real It's a real cool experience and and it's worth every penny if you want to if you had the pennies. You don't.

You're broke. You're $90,000 in debt.

Yes.

So, I I'm going to mute my mic. I just can't I can't either. >> She can't tell you no. I'm just kidding.

She's going to make me do it.

>> She can't do it. Ah. We It would be

inconsistent with what we teach.

>> I know. I know. That's the bottom line.

As much as we understand and grasp and we also know you're not going to go bankrupt if you do it and you're probably going to be okay if you do it, but it's inconsistent with what we teach because of that loss of focus and that loss of I I give myself permission to

take a minute off instead of staying on this. The way you got the 78,000 paid off in that short period of time was focused intensity.

Without any distractions, you put the blinders on and said nothing is important as important as getting this debt clean and that level of focus created behavior change in your household, created sacrifice in your household, and got you the progress. And that's how we've taught and been able to coach people to be successful all these years in this to not get distracted with every shiny thing.

Um and this one's particularly funny and fun because Rachel has actually done it twice.

Um It is It It heals your inner child, I'm telling you. >> [laughter] >> It is like Oh god.

It is >> Oh, Jesus is not up there. It's the Backstreet Boys. >> of us millennials, it takes you back to like seventh grade. So, Well, so is the Eagles, but I'm not kidding. Your child didn't need it. >> [laughter] >> But um My inner child died a long time ago. The

He grew up. >> No, he said he's He's in there. He's way down in there, but yeah. And so, this is so fun, Rachel. I'm sorry. The tru- I have to tell you the truth and the truth is everything we teach says don't do it.

Absolutely. Well, no, I really do appreciate it and we listen to like the podcast and stuff when I'm like on my way to teach on the weekends, so thank you. You're You're You're fine and you're a great sport and and so hard.

>> And you're doing a great job. And here's the thing, if you live like no one else, I promise you later there's going to be better things than this would have been.

And I have on my prayer list that Britney Spears heals up as a human and she goes on tour and that NSYNC that Justin Timberlake Oh, just So, we will get millennial concerts in the future, Rachel. I really do believe it. I'm praying for it. >> Well, when they want money, they will cuz all the ones from my generation are 85 years old and they're all on stage jumping around still. So, cuz there's really good money in it right now.

>> There is. Well, and they keep releasing more dates. >> Yeah, like I mean, Don Henley just keeps going like the Ever Ready Bunny. So, but anyway, the uh >> Eagles? Yeah. Mhm. [clears throat] It's uh yeah, it's understandable and it makes for a fun thing because you're actually, you know, you almost got Rachel on your side.

But yeah, we we also have to step aside from all the giggling and the fun about it and say while it is an incredible experience, I would not suggest it to someone in your situation. If you do it, we'll still be friends, but I would not suggest it. >> Rachel. We would still be friends if you did it. There you go. That's a nice way of saying it. We'll just, [laughter] you know, won't be mad at you.

Just like we say, "That's not a sin.

It's not a salvation issue. >> a sin. This is not a biblical It's not a biblical construct. >> focused, Rachel.

Stay focused. The power of focus is >> It's hard to grasp in a culture that does not know how to focus. In a culture where people check their phones 2,500 times a day. And it's hard with With And this is a lot of people's journeys, but you know, they paid off 78 and they made good progress.

And two, you know, a year and a half and they still have 96 Like that's a long That's a long journey. So, you guys, you're in the marathon. You've got it, Rachel. And I kind of think in talking to her that she was a pretty mature about >> No, she knows.

I know she knows.

>> Yeah, she was kind of having fun with it. Um it wasn't like a little spoiled brat. >> No. No. No. She's She's smart. She knows what she's doing. >> like a grown woman and stuff, you know. >> Oh, man. I just hate that you kind of lost the argument to the husband, too, when he yells >> [laughter] >> from the other room. Dave says you can't do it. Dave doesn't make the decisions at your house. He just gives you the guidance and then you make the decisions at your house, but yeah. Oh, Rachel.

[laughter] So sorry. So sorry. Yeah, I was on uh when we were started a thousand years ago, I was on CBS Early Show every two every other Tuesday. And

they got this couple for me to coach.

Oh, no. >> And on the show they revealed to me, without telling me ahead of time, that they had just come back from vacation after I'd been coaching them for four months to get out of debt. >> Oh, jeez. I made the woman cry on the air when I finished with her. She was crying. They went to break with this woman crying. I just completely ripped her a new one.

>> you did. I don't believe that.

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Jennifer's in Boston. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

Hey, I'm good. This is so nerve-wracking. I don't know how you guys do this every day.

>> [laughter] >> We've gotten used to it. How can we help?

Okay. Um okay, so me and my husband, we

had $146,000 of student debt. We've gotten it down to 65,000.

So, we've been kind of crushing it. Um

but we do have like an inheritance um from my father's estate. Um we kind of

went down a rabbit hole and we found out that each kid is probably going to get around 70 to 90,000.

Um the house sold a few years ago, but

my uncle is the executor and he's just gone completely ghost. Like nothing in like a year and a

half. >> I'm sorry, what do you mean? What do you mean ghost? You You He's not returning calls or you can't find him or what?

Nothing. No, like texts, emails, calls.

Did you go to his house? Zero.

Well, we live in like different states.

He's all the way across the country.

Well, for 70,000, I'm going to go to his house.

Yeah, I was talking to my husband about that. I'm like, is this like something we get like I don't know, the authorities involved?

Cuz it kind of like kills me that our debt could be gone tomorrow if I had like the estate, like my I used to have

>> called his phone how many times?

Oh, gosh. Um a handful. Not like a ton and ton cuz I'm like, oh, okay. He has a life, like he has kids, but I'm starting to just get a little a little peeved. A little bit peeved. >> How many times have you called him? Like three times?

Over how Over how long?

Uh I mean, since we've been getting serious about the debts, probably a year. Uh cuz we My husband was in PA school and then I was in college. We weren't really thinking about the estate at all. And now that we're paying down the debt, I'm like, oh my gosh, it's on >> die?

In 2015.

Okay, do you have a relationship of any kind with your uncle prior to this, good or bad?

Uh just after my dad passed, the that side of the family just we kind of just dissipated. >> if you never spoke to him again, but you got your 70,000, your life wouldn't change much.

Right. So, jack him up.

Yeah, like call him a ton. Yeah. And go,

"Hey, I want my stinking money." 2015?

That's 11 years to settle an estate. I'm

getting ready to call the cops if I don't get a check.

I'm calling the cops if you stole my money.

You think he stole it? He might have stolen it. It's been 11 years. Oh, no.

Well, here's some tea. I just have a little bit of a feeling that he's holding it cuz he thinks we're like too young to manage it. I've got a little bit of a feeling that I'm about to jack him up.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. See, I need to talk >> 11 years?

When did the house sell, though? It just sold? >> I more pissed than you?

I know. Yeah, and I think that's the problem. I think I need a little kick in the butt. So, I'm like, I'm just going to call and just say, "Hey, >> When did When did the house Yeah, when did the house sell, Jennifer?

How long ago?

>> Okay. I I want to know the stuff should be wrapped up in 6 months.

Okay. So, he's 10 and a half years too late. Yes, call him and call him and call him twice a day. We're really wanting to move in August and I'm like, we're not moving unless we're out of debt. Yeah. So, I'm like, That That's irrelevant to this discussion, okay?

Whether you move or not depends on if you're out of debt, and that depends on if you get out of debt with your money or you get some of this money that's due you. You may never see this money, but you need closure on this ridiculous estate situation.

It's ridiculous. How many siblings do you have?

I have three. And what are they saying?

Well, a little bit estranged at the moment, not going to lie.

Having a little bit of a family >> Okay. All right. So, I'm I'm going to let I'm going to let Uncle know that he's got 10 days to send me the to close out the estate and send me my money.

And if he doesn't do that, I'm going to hire an attorney and I'm getting ready to jack his world up.

I'm going to reach down his throat and pull him inside out.

No, really. 11 freaking years.

>> Okay, she's only called him three times in a year. So, maybe we try the calling Yeah, call him and say, "I want my money." And then if he says, "Okay," then I'm going to call again. If you want my money. And then I'm going to call again and I'm going to go, "Hey, it's been 20 minutes. Where's my money?"

This is 11 years.

Yes, Rachel's correct that I haven't put my foot like on the gas at all, but now that we're like going crazy with the debt, I'm like, okay. They've taken you from like They've taken you from zero to a hundred, but you need to go there.

>> You need to go middle.

Well, you need to be prepared to go to a hundred in the next 30 days.

30 seconds. I'll do it as soon as you get off the phone. >> You have to call him immediately. You can start nice, and then it progressively over the next 30 days, you go from nice to I don't care if you ever talk to me again, but I still want my money.

Correct. This has gone on too long.

It's gone on too long. And I think he spent the money. I think you're screwed.

That's what you're going to find out.

That's what I'm almost thinking. It's not even there. Yeah. I'm It's not legal at all. >> No, I said, "Isn't that illegal?" >> Sure. Yeah, so what happens then?

He's a fiducia It's a civil matter. It's not a theft. >> Oh, okay. Cuz it was never in her name.

He's the executor of the estate. He did not function in his duties right, his fiduciary right, his fiduciary duties.

So, you could sue him, but suing broke people with no morals is usually a waste of time. So, you're probably screwed because you sat on this for so long.

But, I'm going to go ahead and get get psychological emotional closure on this and then decide what I'm going to do with the guy that stole my money.

Now, am I just going to forgive and walk away and forget it because I didn't follow up or am I going to lean on it or has he got some assets and I'm going to tap him? I don't know. I mean, you got to decide what you're going to do then, but I think you're going to find there's no money. That's what I think. And you bear part of the responsibility for that by letting this go on this long.

By not managing the situation well. It's unhealthy for an estate to be open 11 years.

It's not normal.

Okay? He didn't do his job as the executor of the estate.

And if he's sitting on the money, I'll give you a 10% chance that's what it is. 90% he spent that money.

And he's got some whacked-out weird family justification bull crap in his mind for doing that, but he still stole your money. I'll bet you. We'll see.

We'll see. You can call us back and tell us later.

>> [laughter] >> Good luck. Yeah. So, gang, when you are

due when you are the heir to an estate, you are not in charge of the estate. The executor executes. Thus, the word execute is in the word executor.

Executes the actual terms of the will.

If the will states house to be sold, proceeds to be distributed to children,

that has to happen in a reasonable period of time.

11 years is 10 years past reasonable.

That's simple. >> Mhm. Okay, that's an actual practical thing. And so, as an heir, I at the 1-year mark and periodically after 6 months, I'm going to be getting reports from the executor as to what the progress is and when I expect to see the payout that my dad left in his will for

me. And you're going to give me those reports as the executor or I'm going to drag your butt before the judge and he's going to make you give a report. Because that is your fiduciary responsibility,

your job, your trust job as the

executor. You do not get to decide uh whether they're done with money, so I'm going to hold the money. That's not what the will said. The will said sell the house and distribute the money to the dumb people. That's what it said.

And you have to do what the will said even if it's uncomfortable, even if you don't agree with it. That's what you take on when you take on the job of executor.

And if you've ever been the executor of an estate, you will promise to never do it again. Cuz it's a royal pain in the butt.

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>> [music]

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>> In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Philip and Anita are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Hi. Hey Dave. Hey Rachel. Welcome. Where do you guys live? We're in Atlanta, Georgia. Oh, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville. >> Congratulations. >> And how much debt have you paid off? We paid off $88,100

and we cash flowed another 30,000 of Murphy expenses in the first 18 months of that. Oh, gosh. >> Wow. How long did it take you to do the 88? Uh 2 years and 10 months. 2 years

and 10 months. Way to go. And your range of income during that time? We started at 135,000.

We finished at 145,000 with the highest year we side hustled at 191. Wow. Way to go, guys. What kind of

debt was the 88,000?

Uh it was personal loans, credit cards.

Uh we had some um IRS tax in there as

well and HVAC system. So, very very normal. >> Uh-huh. >> Wow. Normal humans. Very cool. So, what do y'all do for a living?

I'm a general manager for big box retail and then side hustle was DoorDash. Okay.

Nice. >> And you work outside the home, Anita?

Yeah. Well, I'm a physical therapist, um but when we moved to the USA, um COVID started, so I I stayed at home with my three children to help school them. That went on for a few years and then we actually moved down to Atlanta, Georgia and that was when I turned my

hobbies, which is photography and dogs, into work where I began my photography

business and my dog boarding business.

>> Very good. Good for you. Good for you.

So, Australian? Uh we're from the UK.

The UK. You said English. >> Okay, I'm sorry. English. I'm sorry.

[laughter] I can't catch the accent, so I'm sorry. I just knew there was one. Okay. What part of the UK? Where were you? Uh Devon. I'm from Devon and

You can say. I'm from Devon. Fair [laughter] enough. Yeah, close enough. Southwest. Yeah. So, down down on the coast. Got you. Cool.

Oh my gosh. Well, congratulations, you guys. So, how did you run into this Ramsey stuff 2 years and 10 months ago?

Uh well, I listened to the uh Total Money Makeover audiobook in 2015, but I

of course knew better, so I didn't do anything about it. Didn't tell Anita anything about it. And then fast forward to October in '22, uh I was doing some yard work, lifting some trees, and my body had another idea, so I had to have some surgery.

Oh. I was out of action for 5 weeks and it nearly broke us financially. Mhm. So, after a week of Netflix and getting bored, uh started listening to your book again.

Uh this time I really heard you shouting and yelling [laughter] at me. And after eight times, uh I was ready to kind of open up to Anita about what was happening financially. Wow. Oh, wow. So, Anita, you didn't really have the full picture in general. No, we did we really didn't um communicate very well with finances and we communicated well otherwise, but I completely relied on him to manage the

finances and I didn't really know what was going on. And um he was under a huge amount of stress and it was impacting our marriage, but I didn't know what was causing the problem, why he was so stressed. Um but then he did um open up

to me once he um started, you know, reading your books again and shared what his plans were and I had you know, I was surprised to find out how much debt we were in. I had no idea, but I was I took it all very level-headed surprisingly. I didn't um get upset and I just got totally on board with helping him. In

fact, it really did help us communicate.

And it did I feel like it saved our marriage actually. So, thank you. I mean, it has been an incredible journey, just the whole experience and and following your plan, um communicating better as a family, and working together. Um so, I'm really proud of him for getting on board and

you guys for helping us do that. Yeah.

Wow. Well, way to go. I'm proud of you guys. Well done. Very well done. So, you

you you had this event that put you flat on your back and you're kind of forced to consume some things and you say, "Okay, I'm going to do it this time.

This time I heard it. This time I'm tired of living like this. I'm going to talk to Anita about it. We're going to work together. We're going to tear into this." What was the first big thing you did when you got in attack mode?

I went out and started DoorDashing.

Believe it or not. >> you sold everything. >> Oh, yeah. >> [laughter] >> We sold we sold everything. That was that was number one. Yeah. The kids really did think that they were next.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, yeah. And and then it was DoorDashing. Um about 6 months in, I actually lost my job, so I got laid off. Oh. Yeah, but um

but it was okay. I found Anita from the car park after the meeting. I literally went out door dashing and I was actually earning we were earning $1,500 a week door dashing. So, that's what we did for a couple of months until I got the next position that I'm in now.

Wow, never stopped. Just kept rolling.

Yeah. >> Yeah, we just went straight out. We were doing 80 hours a week. Yeah.

>> Anita was doing 80 hours a week.

>> Yeah, so then then I started with my photography business. I'm doing family photography, which I actually didn't make most of the money. The money came from dog boarding. We do have dogs and we love animals. So, that just seemed to come naturally to me. I think you can make more being a daycare for dogs than for kids. >> Right. Well, these dogs stayed with us. They slept in our home. They were family friendly dogs from local people. Yeah.

And yeah, it really did take off huge and I think you know, the people that let their dogs stay with us really saw how much we love dogs. The kids loved it. At times we had you know, in the teens like 13 more dogs. Oh my goodness.

Christmas time was hysterical. Yeah.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. The kids joined in as well. The eldest actually lost his room. So, the boys had to cozy up and we we got a tenant for a couple of years as well.

So, we we really went all in. Yeah, we went for it. >> Oh my gosh. So, now that you're free, was all that worth it?

Oh my goodness, yes. I mean, if you're thinking about getting on board with the Ramsey, I would highly recommend it. I mean, it's changed our life completely and you you won't imagine what you're capable of, how how hard you can push yourself. Um knowing that the harder you push, the faster you can achieve your goals and >> Amen.

That's it right there. I feel like our children have have just learned so much from this experience. >> I was going to ask is some people are cautious when they have kids in the home to sacrifice lifestyle to get out of debt and do this cuz they're like, oh I don't want my kids to feel like that you know, that that our life is changing for the worst.

>> them resilience and to not you know, to

be grateful for everything that they have. Um it's just been to see them to grow as

little humans has just been a blessing to see how strong they've become because of this and you know, to go into the shops, they don't you want everything they see. They know that you know, we have to compromise that you know, they've done they've done a great job.

Yeah, and our eldest, he's 14. He's He's been inspired by as well. So, he's watched FPU. He's done that with us as a course and he's now got his own business that he started last year and and he's doing really well with that doing what you're doing Dave, which is lawns and jet washing driveways. He's really jumping on board. Good for him.

Oh, good. Well, you have a front row seat to watching mom and dad change their lives. You guys are heroes. So, you've changed your whole family tree with your actions as well as with the arithmetics. So, absolutely amazing. I'm so proud of you. Thank you.

>> Very well done. Great Great Great inspiring couple.

Very very cool. All right, let's bring the kiddos up and introduce them their names and ages.

Come on up, guys.

What are their names and ages? So, this is Bethany. Bethany's 8 years old.

>> Mhm. They're so beautiful. Isaac.

Isaac is 10 years old and Ewan [clears throat] is 14 years old.

>> All right, very cool. All right, it's Philip and Anita, Ewan or E So, say it

again. Ewan Ewan Yeah, Ewan, Isaac and Bethany from Atlanta, Georgia. 88,000 paid off in 2 years and 10 months making 135 to 145 and selling everything in sight. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

3 2 1 We're debt free.

>> [cheering] >> I love it.

Man, they are inspiring.

>> [applause] >> That is so fun.

>> just Scoursters for 2 years.

>> Man, they did it. They just did [music] it. And you know, her her it's so beautifully said that you know, the more you turn it up, the more you turn up the heat, the faster you get out. >> Going. Yep. >> [music]

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>> Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Yrefi. Defaulted private student loans don't fix themselves, but you can fix them. Yrefi helps you refinance in a into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget so you can get back on the baby steps and move forward. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter Y R E F Y {dot} com

{slash} ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Nicole in Arkansas. She said, "I'm working two jobs to pay off debts, but it feels like my progress is slowing with the rising gas prices because of the war, increasing grocery costs and higher interest rates. How can I maintain momentum in paying off my debts with all of this going on?"

Well, it's setting the the lifestyle standard. I mean, there's some things that you can control, some things that you can't. And so, to have gas in your car, you're going to have to have, which means if it is a little bit more expensive, then you got to change change the price

point of your budget to say it's there.

So, what do I have to make up for in other places that I can sacrifice and or

make more money. But, it shouldn't be that significant of a >> Yeah, you're you're just wrong, Nicole.

Wait. You're worrying about stuff that is not in existence. You've been watching the news.

Okay? There's no higher interest rates.

While you've been getting out of debt, nothing no debt that you have, the interest rate has not gone up a penny on any of it. >> Yeah, groceries are costs have been consistent. I mean, the gas thing has been >> costs Your your gas might be costing you $10 more a month this month.

The Iraqi bombing has been going on for 3 weeks. >> Iran. Iran Iranian bombing, okay? 3 weeks.

And and gas has gone up 40 cents a gallon. It's $10.

So, you don't have a you don't have a problem at $10.

And you don't have higher interest rates. And your grocery costs have not gone up in the last 3 weeks.

So, none of that is true.

So, you're you're creating a narrative a drama in your head because you're tired

cuz you've been working all the time.

Feels like my progress is slowing. No, it's not.

Unless you did something else to cause it to slow. Slowing because of the war. No.

Your progress is not slowing because of the war. Increasing grocery costs. No, not substantially, not in the past 5 weeks. No no big difference. And no interest rates on your debt have not gone up a penny.

Not a penny.

So, I I don't know where That's all stuff that somebody told you that you work with that's a Debbie Downer or you're watching the news, which is the same thing as Debbie Downer.

So, how you maintain momentum is you ignore Debbie Downer and you kick the butt of the debt by

working like a crazy person and selling everything in sight and eating beans and rice rice and beans. The cost of beans and rice has not gone up.

And so, but but but what is what does happen, Nicole, honestly, that is valid

and I will defend you on this after taking you to task on the other is you do get tired.

It gets old. >> Yeah, and if it's been a 2-year journey for her, she is feeling Working your butt off gets old.

It gets old. It's hard. Getting out of debt is hard.

It's just not as hard as spending your entire life being average.

Being mediocre.

Constantly living from paycheck to paycheck for your whole freaking life having to work an extra job because you never get out of debt because you never pay a price to push it over the push the rock over the hill.

But I but I I will sympathize with you, empathize with you that you do get tired.

And it is it does get I get sick and tired of this. And and all I all I would encourage you to do is just take that and turn it into a righteous anger to push the pedal even harder to the floor to get out that much faster like the debt free screamer just said. Like Anita just said on that debt free scream.

And use it as anger and also as anger to never go back and I'm not going to ever be the person I used to be.

I'm going to be transformed while I get

out of debt as well.

Because it actually what ends up happening to these people, you guys listening that have never done it, these people that go through these extreme journeys to get out of debt, they are changed more than their finances are changed. And they can never become the same person again because they're not the same person they used to be. Yeah, cuz the strength of doing something that you think is impossible, right? Where they have 13 dogs living with them at Christmas and they're working extra.

They're doing they're door dashing a thousand bucks a week. They're making $4,000 a week door dashing is what they said in that That that that feels impossible for people. I mean it's just like there's no way I could do that. And when you do something you don't think you can do, the resilience on the back end comes out and then you get to apply that to every area of your life.

Like it just there's a level of strength there when you do what feels like the impossible.

It's not possible.

And so yeah, that that's how this goes.

Wow. Wow.

So we'll be praying for your strength, kiddo. But do not get distracted by mythology from your Debbie Downer friends or mythology from the news.

Because your gas tank is not that much more expensive in the last 3 weeks.

And if it is, it won't be for long.

And your interest rates have not changed a thing unless you went and borrowed money in the last 3 weeks. You might have found a higher interest rate that way. But the interest rates on everything you had have not changed. Your credit card rates are not moved a penny.

Not moved up or down. They never move up or down. They always are screwing you.

You know, your car is a fixed rate. If you have a car debt, your your medical bills are fixed rate. They're not charging you an interest rate. They're just trying to get their money. You know, whatever it is, the interest rates are all the same.

Nothing has changed.

In the you know, because nothing in your life has changed. That's my point. Now, there may be some things in the marketplace have moved a little bit here or there. But guys, you really can't sit and watch the news and be anything but negative. They exist for fear porn.

Their whole job is to keep you upset so you keep watching and you stay in the the Fox News or the CNN News loop.

And you know, your particular side of the aisle is stimulated by anger at the

other side of the aisle. And that you know, that's all they do all day long.

And we're on Fox all the time. We know those guys. We're not mad at them. Most of those guys are friends of ours. But what they do all day long, the people that write those scripts that they read in those telemarkers you you know, it's got to it you do not

have higher interest rates.

You just don't. So that's simple. Jane is in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi Jane, how are you? Well, I'm fine, Dave. Thank you very much for taking my call. My question concerns cars. Cars and a mortgage. My

husband's 79. I'm 69. We currently have

a we've done it all. We we've gotten grandma's car, grandpa's car, you know, we bought new cars. We've been married 48 years. We bought new cars, seen them to the end. You know, anytime we bought a new car, had them, of course had a

payment. And once it was done, then we saw it to the end. So currently we got grandma's 2003 Buick LeSabre.

And then we have a 2006

Explorer that my husband drives. And then we're snowbirds. So here in Florida have we have our Sienna.

And because we're snowbirds, I tend to

go north more often than he does. I'm getting nervous, okay? It's like we got these old cars, you know, and he's pretty good. He's good. He knows stuff.

He says that old car will be fine. >> Before I run out of time, ask your question, Jane.

Okay, is it ever a good idea I went and got a a lease? No, you didn't.

Yes, listen, I kind of got strong-armed, but it's a very nice car. I'm sure it is.

It's a I I mean I could be easily impressed cuz I got old cars. So what do you want me to do about it? You got a lease. Tell tell me tell me It's a bad idea.

>> My plan is to give up the lease in

in September. It's done.

>> Good. Turn it in. Good. Okay, because we

gave our son money for a some land, we

still have a mortgage.

So I'm thinking, okay, do the we'll put that money toward drive the old cars,

put the money toward the mortgage, and then in um I I turn 70 this year, so I'll get >> I don't mind you getting a nicer car. It sounds like you've got the money. Just pay cash for it.

That's simple. Yeah, and if the two if the two old cars are fine, then what you're saying putting it toward the mortgage, that makes >> old. You're driving across the country. You need a better car than an '06.

Yeah, I'm fine with that, but pay cash for it. And quit trying to trick the system.

Sounds like you've been tricking it for a long time, but it hasn't worked.

Just write a check, buy yourself a car.

And be careful what car you buy and buy something that's very reasonable [music] and that gets the job done where you feel safe.

But don't lease stuff. No.

>> [snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author, my daughter, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

James is in Indianapolis. Hi James, how are you? Hello. Hey, I'm doing fine. Thanks for taking my call and um hello to Rachel and to Mr. Ramsey.

>> Well, thank you, sir. >> the I appreciate the all the information you've given throughout the years. I've got a little problem and I just need you to let me know the direction you would take with this. You got it.

>> Okay, I've got two sons.

I'm 70, my wife is 70. She's in great health. I have cancer, but I'm I'm in remission at this time, so I'm good.

But you know, time's going to be most likely shorter for me than her because her mom's in her 90s and her family has that longevity. But she's doing great, great caregiver. Love that lady. But but I have two sons, one 42, one 38. And

we're going to have about a $2 million inheritance for them.

The 38 42-year-old is great. He's got his life

under control, does things as he as you would expect people to do, you know, pays his bills, does this, that, and the other, saves his money.

And then I got my other son.

He's not very good with money and he's got triplets. He's divorced 2 years now and he's been living with us for 2 years. And that was to get him back on his feet plus they were two when he got divorced and a single dad, he gets the kids half time, so he's not in a position,

you know, how do you take care of two girls if you're a single dad and you're working? And he is working and that's the that's the plus side of it. However, he he's went through the equity in the home they sold, which was about $60,000.

I didn't know he had done that and then we gave him about $30,000 from my mom's

estate.

We were dividing it in thirds between my my wife, my myself, and my two boys. And

he went through that and >> [clears throat] >> I'm sure it's a gambling issue. I can't

verify that cuz he's never said, but there's no physical evidence of spending $150,000,

you know, so on cuz he spent all his wages as well during that time and he has about $4,000 in the bank after living with us for 2 years. The only thing he pays for is daycare.

And it is expensive. It's $12.50.

Uh $250 a week for these three girls. And he pays for that and we've set aside that $250 when he moves out, he will pay his rent.

But it ain't right. I just want to know the inheritance piece of it.

What do we do?

Well, I don't think you're blessing him

if you leave him a million dollars.

No, and I don't want to leave it all at once either. Well, I mean you're going to when you die. That's going to be you know, he's not he's not been blessed by anything else and so money magnifies

the good parts of our life and the bad parts of our life. And so far money that he's gotten has magnified the bad parts.

Absolutely has. Yeah.

So why is he still living with you?

Because he has $4,000 in the bank and

and he's got these triplets and he gets them half time and he can't put a roof over his head at this point. Why? What's he make?

He makes $22 an hour, which

next summer or this coming summer he may get to 25.

>> Yeah. And then he has a chance to get to 35, but that's going to be two or three years down the road. Now, he won't We've given him the get out, you know, get out when you're uh no longer than January of next year.

>> And why does it say on my screen that he's under house arrest? What does that mean? That was a DUI and he has a bracelet on

his ankle, so he goes to work, comes back here. I don't have to worry about him spending money because But we still don't know where all his money's going.

The what? >> He's spending money somewhere.

Well, he was spending it on online gambling, of course. >> Yeah. But and then >> All right, so what would I do? You asked me earlier in the conversation, what would I do if I woke up in your shoes?

My son's about the same age.

Okay. What I would do is the conditions for you to continue to live here are that you start being responsible

as a man.

And that means you've got to stop spending everything you make on online gambling. So, if you gamble one more time online, you have to leave our home.

Right. And so, I'm not going to I'm not going to support you destroying your own life. I'm not going to buy you heroin when you're a heroin addict. I'm not going to give you shelter while you're misbehaving. I'm not blessing you. I'm enabling you when I do that. And I love you too much to participate

willingly or unwillingly in your destruction. >> make sure that that's not happen because I mean, you can't really control that if he has his own money. Yeah, I I I I I I would be I would ask for a shared account with him first. Like I mean, there needs to be some visibility into his internet access. Yeah. And treat him like he's an addict. Treat him like he was an addict because he's an addict. If he's unwilling to do that, then he needs to move out and figure out his own way.

And um that's your wife doesn't want him to do that, but your wife is wrong. He needs to be kicked out. It's the best thing that'll happen to him because the the path that he's on is a path of destruction. And it's not a loving act to assist

in an act of destruction. It's called enabling. Enablers are nice people.

They're sweet people, but they're not helpful people. They think they're helping, but they're not helping. And so, when I do things like this or when you do things like this, we're enablers. And so, I would stop that. Then the second part of it is as far as the estate goes, I would leave his portion into a trust that he has no access to until he proves to the trustee that he's cleaned up his life and he's become responsible because I'm not leaving a million dollars to a gambling addict.

DraftKings is going to get it all.

And I don't want to leave a million dollars to DraftKings.

It's not I didn't work all my life to do that. And [clears throat] it's not a blessing to the person that's being victimized by DraftKings or whoever else, you know, [snorts] whatever else. I mean, we're seeing that sports gambling is just an epidemic among men under 40 years old.

And it's just um destroying Mhm. men left and right and families left and right. It's evil.

And everybody thinks it's cute to parlay. I got your parlay.

Be broke. That's what you're parlaying.

So, no, I'm not going to participate in that. And I'm disgusted with it. I'm disgusted that he's been victimized by it. He's allowed himself to be victimized by it. And I guess not being able to support himself, then the girls end up with the mom full-time custody, I would assume. Well, and you know, The courts will Grandma and Grandpa are standing there ready to help with the triplets. With the girls, yes.

I was going If you want to If you know, if when you're keeping the kids, if you want to bring them over, I'll help you keep the kids on your days off. You know, cuz you got two little girls and that's what Grandma's doing right now. Yeah. Is she's bringing she he How does a single dad deal with two little girls?

Grandma's helping. That's what's happening. So, just keep doing that.

I'll help you and help you with the kids, but you can't live here.

I'm not going to support you and I'm not going to give you money and I'm not going to give you money until you prove yourself to be to be a the to where the

money's going to be a blessing to you. It's not a punishment. It's I don't want to cause your ruin.

You're on a path toward ruining your life. And I don't want to add fuel to that fire.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

>> Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, but you couldn't get through, head on over to the website and use our tool Ask Ramsey.

Ask Ramsey is a free AI tool that's

built and trained on proven principles.

Like we dumped years and years and years of our calls from the show into it, all the books I've written into it, all the Financial Peace University lessons are into it, all the books Rachel wrote are into it. And based on that, it'll give you an answer. So, AI when it has a good data set can give you really good correct answers. And obviously, Ask Ramsey's going to give you a Ramsey answer.

You'll get an answer the same way as if we did it right here on the show.

Jackie is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hi Jackie, how are you?

Hi. I am good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Oh, I can't believe I'm speaking to you.

This is so cool. Okay.

So, my question is a relational question

and I'm hoping to get a third-party objective viewpoint from you guys.

Um so, my dear fiance has some very

frugal tendencies that border on being cheap. And I'm wondering if this means we are incompatible or if it should cause me to reassess our relationship.

Oh man. Okay, so give me a couple of examples of what you consider cheap that concern you. >> borderline crazy. Or borderline Okay.

So, it can be something small like if I

call him to say like, "Hey, can you pick up some avocados on the way home?" I can hear him like his brain is short-circuiting on the other end trying to think of like the cheapest grocery store to get avocados. So, it can be something small like that. Um or just bigger stuff like paying for dates and groceries and um So, yeah. Do you mean he wants you to pay for dates?

Yes. I I should probably give you a little more context though. Um so, he and I are engaged and we are living together. Please don't yell at me, Dave.

Um and we also have a 2-year-old son together. So, we've kind of we've gone through a lot in our relationship. Um

Early on, yes, he he still pays for

dates. I want to give him a fair >> not a he's not a date anymore. He's a shack-up. So, it's a completely different thing. So, um I mean, he's the father he's the baby daddy now. I mean, come on. So, um yeah.

Um I I think it's too late to decide if you're going to marry the guy. I think you've already decided. You set your entire life up as if you're married already.

Oh, I agree. I think that's probably like the root cause of some of our fights. Um I would say that uh early on like one of our disagreements was on living together. I

wanted to wait until we were married until we lived together. So, why aren't you married?

Well, I I wanted to be early on, but he

wanted to take things slow.

Um but at the same time, he wanted to live together. I agree. It's not exactly slow. That's kind of where I agree. He um Taking things slow was basically like not marrying me, but he still wanted to live together. And this is this is where like the frugal part comes up because um I think our like framework for making decisions is very different. It seems like the only thing he can um make a decision around is saving money.

So, like we we had a big disagreement on living together. For me, I wanted to be married first and try to like do things back in the correct order, but for him, it all revolved around saving money and

like the practical side of it.

And so, like that kind of created a big conflict there. >> Which yeah, which that would feel like he is choosing quote unquote financial security or whatever he wants over you who's the mother of his child. Yeah.

Yeah. And so, we did actually live separately cuz I I I needed that. And so, by the time he proposed after that, he then wanted to move in together. And I felt like we just got to an impasse in our relationship where it was like someone has to cave here.

And so, I did and I allowed him to move in. But to be honest, I feel like that's like the root of our conflict. And so, to your point, Dave, like why aren't we married? I kind of agree with you, but I think like the way he went about it made me hesitant on moving forward with marriage because it felt like we were just Okay, so I guess there's three options, right? You get married.

Yep. Um you don't get married and stay shacked up in this exact situation.

Mhm. Or you split up.

Yeah. Those are the three options.

And I feel like there's >> And so I I I don't know how not to getting married and staying in this situation solves

your concern of him being cheap.

Mhm. So if you are so if you decide he's too cheap to marry this is too dysfunctional for you to marry then you're saying you're splitting up.

Mhm.

But I think it goes be I think it goes beyond that for you, Jackie. I think it's I don't think it's just that you think he's cheap. I think there's been other red flags in what he prio- Well, just what he prioritizes.

You don't feel chosen ever in this. He wanted to wait, but then he gets you still even though he doesn't need the commitment. I mean, it's just it feels like he's getting he's choosing a lot of what he's wanting. Yeah.

>> and and it doesn't and it's not you at the end of the day, right? Um it's financial security. It's well, I want to be in a relationship, but I don't want to commit to marriage. You know, it's all of that.

So I think a lot of I would think some of that's brewing even if it's subconscious of like am I going to be chosen at all in this >> Yeah.

finances. So This is this is way beyond avocado. >> Yeah, I think this is I do. Um so I before you I I mean, before you walk down an down an aisle and commit yourself to him long term.

I mean, you kind of already have. You guys have a kid together. So he's going to be part of your life forever. But I but before you guys get married, I would sit down with a with a great therapist, counselor and and really be working on something cuz again, it it com- it's coming out like money, but always there's a root of what's going on underneath and getting to that point um of what's causing some of this conflict in you is is going to be really important for you guys which I pray is a wonderful flourishing marriage ahead of you, right?

Like we I want you guys to win. Can he grow past this?

This guy's selfish.

Um it's what he gets and what he wants and what it's about him.

And um which means um that he's not a great man right now.

Can he become a great man? Yeah, sure.

But it's going to require some growth on his part. And um it's probably going to require you doing something you've never done before and that's drawing a line in the sand and demanding it.

Yeah. >> Um and so you guys are going to sit down with a good counselor and begin doing some hard work both of you. And he's going to have to start saying "Oh, my job here is to take care of this wonderful woman named Jackie and this baby I made with her and quit acting like a twerp over avocados." That's my job. I have a new job. It's called manhood. It's serving.

Not what you can get, what you can give.

And by the way, the odd thing is that happiness is in there. You find happiness when you learn how to serve.

Uh selfishness seldom leads to happiness. Doesn't lead to joy. Selfish people are seldom joyful people. They look like they were weaned on a pickle.

And so, you know, that that's the good news for him. He's got that as a possibility, a choice that he can make here. But if you you know, one of the things we we talk about at Ramsey in leadership and we teach this to people in companies on leadership, you get what you tolerate.

And in this relationship, you've been tolerating a lot and so you're getting

what you've tolerated. And so my encouragement lovingly to you is to help him by not tolerating him anymore at this level and saying we're going to get some help because I feel like you're here for what you can get rather than what you can give and I'm tired of being the only one here giving.

And so we're going to get some therapy and we're going to get some get in a good church. We're going to get plugged in and we're going to move down the aisle in a proper way as a man and a woman not a little boy and his needs.

>> [music]

[music]

>> When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show and it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living at normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions and get your plan today.

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage Jeff and Krista are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Doing well.

>> Welcome. Where do y'all live? Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. >> Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? $210,000.

Oh my gosh. >> And how long did this take? 17 years.

>> [laughter] >> Okay, that'll work. >> I love it. >> And your range of income during that time? We started at 60,000 and we ended

at 110,000. Wow. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a college professor at a small Christian university in Oklahoma. Mhm.

And I am a minister at a I like to say a

healthy church of 65. Okay. [laughter] I'll go with that. I like it. I like it.

>> What was the 210,000? Um student loan,

uh car debt and the house. YOU PAID OFF YOUR HOUSE! DONE.

>> Look at weirdos. Oh my gosh. How does it feel to be weird? It's pretty amazing.

We paid it off on our anniversary this last year, so. How long you been married?

>> [laughter] >> 28, 7? What are we at? We're at 7.

>> me on the spot. 7 and a half. 27 and a half. Maybe 28 if he figures this out.

We're [laughter] working on 28. >> We're in the year 28. [snorts] >> All right. Way to go, you guys. So 10 years into the marriage that's 17 years ago you looked up and said, uh we're normal. This sucks. How did you get introduced to this whole Ramsey thing? Well, uh initially it was a through a church. Um we they were doing FPU and we kind of went through it, watched the videos. It was I was looking at your timeline over there. It was like the the 6-month long one. Yeah. Whatever it was.

And uh we didn't do any of that stuff for for [laughter] a number of years. It sounded pretty good. Um but as you say, I'm probably the one that held it back. I'm more of the free spirit. She's the kind of nerd of the family. Mhm. And um but we kind of got

um into our marriage and realized that we probably hadn't been taught very well on these kind of things. And I think the big thing was we we were um moving for jobs in ministry

and we went to sell a house in about 2010 and the house that be 2008, 2009

was worth about 30 grand less than we we had borrowed on it at that point and all of the stress that came with that that we decided, yeah, we needed to get out of all that anxiety. Yeah. [snorts] And for us, I think um you know, when you say 17 years, it doesn't sound impressive, but I think what's really cool is um all the things we cash flowed while we did that. Um so [snorts] it's or just ask us to do a whole lot of things and um have a list. Okay.

>> So um we have adopted six kids. Wow.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Four of them are international adoptions. That was cheap. Yeah, right.

Exactly. [laughter] Um we have our three oldest kids have graduated college. Well, the one's going to graduate this year. Um [snorts] debt-free. Wow. What a beautiful family.

>> younger ones are in private school um which we felt very strongly we needed to do and for several reasons.

Um all six of the oldest kids have had a

401, Dave, matching cars.

Wow. We've had several cars that we've purchased and sold through that time as well. Um we have a mission organization called Mission 1010 in Ethiopia that um we were on the founding board for and I go yearly um for mission trips to Ethiopia.

Um is that that's where you did the adoptions? Yes, it is.

>> them are and then some of them were domestically here through Ryan and I. You adopted how many? Eight or six? Six.

Six. Wow.

And [snorts] um so I we were trying to count up on our way here. Number of number of health surgery incidents. >> had 10 surgeries in our family in the past 17 years.

>> yeah, that's logical.

And um every single appliance in our house has been replaced at least once.

Um one summer we replaced both of our heat and air units. Wow. Um so that was um 8 grand just right there in the summer. >> flowing all this, right?

Right. Yes. And you're a professor of what? What do you teach?

>> of mathematics. >> Mathematics. Yeah. And uh >> [laughter] >> in fact, I teach a unit in my or we call it contemporary mathematics um on financial math at the very end and we talk about this and we talk about Murphy's Law and about all the things that can go wrong with purchasing a home before you're ready for it.

And I mentioned a little probability and statistics, yeah.

So now you've gone through all of this and you're 100% debt-free. Yes, sir. How

does that feel? It's It's amazing. I was over there in I think it was John Delony book that says building an an anxious life.

>> life, yeah. A non-anxious life and when you're you know raising adopted kids and foster kids it's nice not to have the anxiety >> [laughter] >> of finances. >> of something else. >> doing all of that, so that just kind of resonated with me just the anxiety level just drops.

Amazing when you don't have to worry about just car payments much less you know home payments.

>> [laughter] >> It's all in there. It's exciting, yeah. Oh my gosh. >> That is so fun. You all are amazing people. I mean not only to do this journey but what you've done. Yeah, you've given your lives away. >> 100% 100% incredible.

>> think it's a honestly what you do and what I mean it's just biblical. We talk about you got to talk about all that all the time.

As a minister I just preach all the time that the the church needs to preach this stuff. Just the effectiveness effectiveness of a debt-free church I just can't imagine what it would be like and and and the more that we get on board with that I just I can't imagine what God would do if we were still good stewards of our finances. Yeah, yeah. It changes everything. And here you are with your house paid for and six adoptions. Oh my gosh.

Pretty incredible. That's a long journey and there's a lot of claw and a lot of dirt under the fingernails to get that done. That's amazing. It was one of those things like you want to go faster but when you're trying to manage all the other things that the Lord's asking you to do at the same time it just wasn't in the cards.

>> Yeah, you talk about the hustle sometimes. Sometimes it's just realizing you can live with a lot less than you think you can. Yeah, so along the way Jeff actually had been working in corporate America as well in IT and he took a significant pay cut to become a pastor. And I remember our oldest son saying after that had happened that he didn't feel like there was a pay cut.

He didn't he didn't feel it and um I think that's pretty incredible cuz he should have felt it.

Yes. But you guys were living so below your means to work on this journey and for other things so yeah, exactly.

You all are amazing. Well done, you guys. >> When someone asks what the key to getting out of debt is house and everything while living a life that's this full what do you tell them the key is? Budgeting I think and making sure that you've got all of the the things taken care of. Yeah, I would say diligence and

um yeah and I think one of the key things is is find some fun. Yeah. Right? It can't it can't be at all and so there's there's less expensive ways. I mean we still go on ski trips.

We still go to the lake. We still do those kind of things and and so I think having fun in the middle of it is still necessary, too. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Well done, you guys. All right, bring the kiddos up and introduce them. Some of them are here anyway. Yeah, so this is Jewel and she's 12. Boaz is

18. Um Kimberly is 17. Eli is 18 and Abigail

is 21. All right, very cool.

>> You'll have a bunch leaving the house soon. The ages, yeah. Getting close, yeah. Yes. Oh. That's yeah, that's a different praise note. >> [laughter] >> Beautiful family, yeah. >> going down.

Well, congratulations. We're proud of you guys. You're heroes. What what you've chosen to do with your lives and give your lives away and in the process still manage to set yourself free. Very

very well done. A lot of diligence. A lot of pushing. All right, Jeff and Krista and the gang Oklahoma City,

Oklahoma 210,000 paid off house and

everything. 17 years get this making 60

to a high of 110. Count it down. Let's

hear a debt-free scream. 3 2 1 WE'RE

DEBT-FREE.

THAT'S HOW IT'S DONE.

>> [applause] >> WELL, we sometimes hear from people negatively that the Ramsey stuff

does not work. God's ways of handling money does not work for large families.

And then occasionally we get a super large family standing on the debt-free stage with tears running down their face saying it does work. We're free house and everything, baby. Perseverance.

Incredible.

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>> It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a

better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way they can

take the stress off your shoulders and once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait. Ramsey trusted pros can book up fast. Go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro

to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day Proverbs 11:14 where there is no guidance a people fall. But in an abundance of counselors there is safety. Brian Tracy said failure is a prerequisite for great success. If you want to succeed faster, double your rate of failure. That's good. [laughter] Barry is with us in Columbus, Ohio. Hi Barry, how are you?

Well and you and thank you Mr. Ramsey and staff for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

Well, I'm wondering I have a small account in state teachers retirement system. It's it's very small maybe 20 or 25,000 and I I've been since my almost

full retirement now at 67.

I heard on the internet that you could use something called an IUL which is tax-free. And I I know STRS does pretty good with

you know a percentage that they earn but I've heard that there's two ways to set up an IUL. One is so that it pays a lot at your death and the other one is so that you can earn interest without without taxation. So I I I don't trust

the internet but I I try because I don't know where they're coming from but I trust you because I I know where your power comes from. So I called for advice. Well, the IUL is an indexed universal life

and in your case it would be a what's called a single premium which means you pay 20,000 bucks up front.

They would take their commissions out of that and they would put the rest of it into what's called cash value.

The cash value earnings are taxable

unless you borrow against your cash value. That's the only way that you can actually get your money out is to borrow and pay interest.

Borrow your money out and pay interest but the the earnings on an IUL are not tax-free.

That's not true.

>> Is there any way Thank you for telling me that. Is there any way to roll that over into an IUL?

No, I would not use an IUL.

Because because the fees are so stinking high and when you die your money's gone.

So instead I would just use something if you want to lower your taxes on the 20,000 and you're not going to use the income off of the 20,000 today. Do you want it to create income today?

Yeah, I I thought from what I heard from what I heard on on the internet again you never know. I I thought that you could actually earn interest and that it was not taxed.

Well, it is.

You have to borrow the money and pay pay interest on your own money for it to be not taxable because borrowed money is never taxable.

But if you actually just took the earnings straight off of the indexed universal then yes, that is a taxable event. So but but the but they they couch it that way because it's a sales technique on it's a it's a

it's a a twisted version of an old product that was simply called whole life life insurance. It's all it is.

It's a it's a newer version of screwing you. So no, I would not put a dime in it. I would stay completely away from it and what I have done instead is is a

taxable event, but if you want something that will grow without any taxes while it grows, you can use what's called a low turnover mutual fund.

Which means a mutual fund that they don't sell the stocks inside of it very often. And so as it grows in value since they're it's just like a single stock that goes up in value, you don't pay tax on it until you sell it.

And so if I you buy a share of stock and it's $50 a share, goes to $70 a share, you don't pay taxes on that gain until you sell it. And the same is true in a low turnover mutual fund. Now, if you take the money out of there in a monthly income, you're going to pay taxes on it.

And I don't know of a tax-free thing except a tax-free muni bond, a municipal bond, which you can buy a muni bond fund if you want a tax-free income. But go ahead and spoiler alert, it's about 2% rate of return. And so

crummy rate of return. So I would rather make 10 or 12 and pay some taxes and net out 10 or 12.

Um or or net out eight or 10, you know, out of tax after tax. And so that's what I have chosen to do. I haven't strained to get to uh uh tax-free income. Now, I've got a lot of tax deferred growth because I own real

estate and as it goes up in value, it doesn't get taxed. And I own these low turnover mutual funds and as it goes up, it doesn't get taxed until I cash out of it. And then it creates a taxable event called a capital gain. But no, I would stay away from universal indexed life and you're correct to be suspicious of anything on the internet uh because it's all twisted and turned and it's a barrel of fish hooks and Yeah, that's one of the things that you see is people get taking out a whole life policy and living off that money cuz like life insurance should be while you're alive.

And you're living off that money. >> way you're living off of it is borrowed though. >> you're borrowed. >> You're borrowing your own money.

Cuz it's borrowed money. >> Yeah. It's the exact same thing. So you if you want to do something very similar but has less fees, just put your money in a CD and then borrow from it. >> and then use that as collateral and borrow against the CD. And of course we're not going to tell you to do that either. That's dumb. But but it's the exact same principle. >> Yes. And then when you die, they're going to repay the loan with the CD.

And so there's nothing there. It's gone.

Poof. Just like that. And the same thing's true with the universal.

Same thing. So um you know, but you know, bar that they they it's always been humorous to me that these guys in the cash value life insurance world, "It's tax-free." It's it it borrowed money is never taxable, doofus.

Of course it's tax-free.

You know, I mean these guys these TikTok guys are just they're cute cuz they're like an old it's like a new version of an old scam.

Bailey is in Asheville, North Carolina.

Hi Bailey, how are you?

Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um so I have a a question about so

I can just give you the rundown.

So my wife and I own a business and we

make custom hats for a living out of our own laundry room.

Um 23. I'm still in school.

Um I got I got married in 2023. We had our first child in 2024.

And now we have another son on the way.

Good for you. And how much you're making on the hat business, dude?

So we just started up in 2024. I'm at

about 40 grand that is in my pocket this year. So far?

In profit or in gross revenues?

In profit. That's after you bought the hats and paid for them.

Right. Yes. >> Good for you. And you did that in 3 months? You're making $10,000 a month on hats? No, I'm so I'm sorry. I meant I meant to say last year. This this year we uh This year >> Oh, so in 1 year you made 40,000 with your side hustle out of the laundry room. Yes. >> That's awesome, man. And you're how old? 24?

23 and >> how do you make it your day job?

So I I was working for a guy that he was

um a he worked at a or he owned a print shop and Do you have a day job?

Oh, no. I do not have a day job.

>> your only job is hats out of the laundry room. Yes. Good for you. Wow, okay. How can I help for I run out of time?

Um so I I've actually have an opportunity to purchase another printing business that would allow me to um expand my business. He's a he's in a brick and mortar, but that is separate from the business. Um I would not do that.

You have a good thing going.

Why are you dumbing it down and getting into a business that's dying? Your hat business is blowing up. Printing business is tough right now.

Well, so he's he's kind of doing exactly

what I'm doing, but and he's doing screen printing. I'm doing hats.

Yeah, but you don't have all the overhead.

Right. I don't.

Why would you want overhead?

Well, the only the only purpose is for

the location that the the building is in. It's a great Why do you need a location? Your laundry room's working great.

Right, for sure. I'm just I'm kind of running out of room as well. Well, go go go rent something for $300 somewhere.

>> Don't go purchase something big. >> Do not go buy a building and buy a business because your hat business is working out of your laundry room. No, no, no, no. These things are not connected.

They're not connected. You are doing a great job. Take what you're doing and do more of it. Don't take on somebody else's problems.

Okay. Cuz hat Let me tell you, hat business, you're doing all this on the internet. You're not You're marketing you don't you A brick and mortar location does not sell you hats.

If it does, go to the person that's got the brick and mortar location and rent 100 square feet of their front window from them.

But don't take on the whole business.

And no, no, no, no, no. Go do more hats, Bailey. Hats are working. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 63. Financial Shortcuts Won't Build Longterm Wealth | January 21, 2026


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb2KhAljStw) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:48:32 |

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[music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you [music] transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

I'm George Camel joined by my co-host Rachel [music] Cruz, also my co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour, which you can get on YouTube or podcast. You call us

88825-5225 [music] and we'll help you take the right next step for your money and your life. Daisy kicks us off in Phoenix. Daisy, welcome to the show.

Hey there, it's Daisy and I've just been

um I'm just in a little bit of a knot

with Only Fans.

>> Oh. >> So I Yeah. Um I've been doing it for

about three years now and as of recently

I've fallen pregnant and would like to,

you know, become a stay-at-home mom from that. >> Okay. So there's a multiple pieces here.

You've been doing this for three years and you want out only now because you're trying to start a family.

>> No, I have been wanting an out for a while now, but as of recently, I found

out I'm pregnant. So, it's like >> this just gave you the kickstart to go motivation. Okay, Daisy, how old are you? >> I'm 21. >> You're 21. Okay. And who is the father

of the baby? Is it a someone you're dating? Is it Are you married? What's >> it's my boyfriend? We've been together for about 2 and a half years now.

>> Okay. Wonderful. >> Okay. And what is your current income?

Just you. >> Um, my current income is honestly about

$1,000 a month right now because my boyfriend, he's the one that takes care of everything. >> Okay. How much does he make?

>> He makes about 4,000.

>> All right. And you guys have you've combined finances already?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And Daisy, is that I mean, is the $1,000 coming from Only Fans? That's your income? >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. Okay. Well, the positive thing is

you could replace that in a heartbeat

doing anything else, right? I mean, it's So, so [clears throat] >> if he gets a $10,000 raise, he effectively replaced her income.

>> Mhm. >> Would he What does he do for work?

>> Him or you, Daisy? I mean, just for the for the time being, though. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, >> how how far along are you? >> Yes. Um, I just uh found out last week,

so I'm about five weeks.

>> Oh, congrats. Okay, so early on. Thank you. That's good. How you feeling? This is >> Oh, I'm feeling great.

>> I've been trying for months now. So, >> Rachel meant like morning sickness. >> I meant like Yeah. The the first trimester is always tough.

So, >> actually none of that luckily thankfully. >> Good. Okay. So, Daisy, yeah.

I mean, so to be able to replace this, I mean, you could do this, you know, doing Uber Eats, you know what I mean? thousand bucks a month, >> 250 a week >> could be found Yeah. Yeah. It could be found super easy, which I'm I'm thankful for because sometimes when people are looking to replace their income and especially when you're in this like moral dilemma of how you're making your money, >> sometimes you're trying to replace like >> 10,000 a month.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Like like a crazy amount that would be hard to replace. This is easy.

So yeah. So I >> And luckily we're not in debt either at all. So >> Okay. So no debt.

Um, we did have savings, but unfortunately that was taken from taxes and just um just a bunch of life things.

So, no, we don't have any emergency savings right now, but however, we do have uh 20,000 in savings for my mother.

>> From your mother?

>> Yes, my mom, she's uh kept a a savings for me. >> Okay. And do you have access to it now?

Is this a like a gift that she's given you? Um, it's whenever like we're ready

for a house, ready for marriage, any big things like that. >> Okay. Well, speaking of marriage, when is that going to come into the picture?

>> Hopefully soon. Hopefully soon.

>> Like before the baby's here.

>> Oh, yes. Um, ring possibly, yes.

Marriage, possibly no, because I'm under my mom's insurance right now.

>> Okay. And you would lose that when you get married?

I don't exactly know, but I'd have to recheck. >> I know. I think you can still I mean, yeah, because your husband, if he if he has a benefit of insurance, I think he can opt in as an individual. And if you're under 25, I think you can still, right? >> I would I would not get married because you think you may not have mom's insurance.

>> So, if I'm in your shoes, I'm going, "Hey, courthouse wedding, >> the time to do all this in order is long gone. Let's at least speed things up here." And so if he's the one, he's going to be the father. He's going to be in this baby's life. You're committed to each other. Let's go ahead and get married. We can have a party later on down the road. >> Yeah. >> And I agree with that completely.

>> Yeah. And that way, Daisy, you guys can start to combine your lives even more, right? I mean, it's not only from a legal standpoint when you get married, but also from a financial because I would not be combining money with him until you guys are married. And so there does have to be because you are living together, you're going to have to figure out like a pay schedule, right, of okay, he's going to be in charge of these things, I'm in charge of this, you know, whatever it looks like to run the household of how you guys are.

But um but yeah, there there's something about that marriage. And again, it's is it is if he's the one and I mean, he's going to be in your life. I mean, I assume regardless because you guys have a kid together, you know.

um yeah, I think stopping the income

source right now from the only fans cuz >> Are you done done like account shut down? >> No, I don't have the account shut down.

I've just been running it, but every time I go do it, I just have a complete breakdown and just cry cry about how much I don't want to do it.

>> Wow. >> Yeah, Daisy, for your I mean, for your sake, girl. like it's >> it's not worth the money and your your mental health, your emotional health, your relationship. >> There's a there's there's something trapped in there for you that would be freed up from you. I mean, seriously, when that gets closed down, there is something a dignity that gets placed back into you and who you are. And so,

>> this is not your identity. It never was.

And I know it's it's hard to separate that because this is what you've been doing >> and you've been getting attention and affirmation and money from this, but this is not healthy in any way, shape, or form. >> Correct. Yes. >> And so I would shut it down today as a line in the sand to yourself. >> Does your boyfriend know about it?

>> Yes, he's known about it. And we've just kind of made a goal to kind of push through it because we actually both do it. >> He's okay [laughter] with it. >> He's involved.

>> Um, we both do it. [snorts] >> Oh boy.

[laughter] Is that where he's Is that where he's making his money? >> No, no, no. He's an electrical apprentice and that's where he he makes his most money. >> That's an honorable position. Can he make more doing that? When is he done with the apprenticeship?

>> Um I He's about to come up on his two

years this year.

>> Okay. Like before the baby's here, he'll be done and and have an upgrade in income. >> Um possibly not. I don't think so. But

we have been looking for uh possibly

finding him a new electrical job. Yes.

>> Okay. And what are your household expenses right now? Have you guys actually sat down, done the math, you know, kind of what it's going to take to run your house?

>> Yes, correct. We kind of live in an apartment right now and we're hoping to actually move into a house though before >> rent a house or buy a house.

>> Um depending on what the cards play out.

>> Well, I can tell you the cards right now. You guys don't have the money to buy a house. That 20 grand is not down payment money. That is emergency fund money, especially with a baby on the way. We are not going to touch that.

>> Okay. >> So, Daisy, you've got some hard choices to make, some hard conversations, but you can do this. If you want to be a stay-at-home mom, you can do this. We got to figure out how to live on his income alone. And the hardest part is just detaching from this life that you guys have been living. [music] >> Correct. Yes. And I'd really love to cuz I mean like you know especially becoming [music] parents you know you don't want that difference. >> And Daisy listen to your gut.

Something's telling you to get out. And I and I would [music] I would do some deep marriage uh premarital counseling work cuz I don't like the guy you're marrying is okay with all of this either. That I don't like that.

>> That gives me serious pause. I'd find a good community, a good church home, and hopefully a good therapist you can detach from this life you've been living. Best of luck. [music]

>> [music]

>> You know, every year I hear the same excuses for why people don't get the life insurance they need to protect their families. So this year, let's clear the air and look at the facts.

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15 or 20-year plan is in many cases just

plain cheap. That amount of coverage lets your family keep the lights on and keep food on the table while they're grieving. Second, life insurance through your work is not enough, especially since these plans go away if you change jobs. You need to have your own policy so you're not without protection when your family really needs it.

Third, stay-at-home parents need life insurance, especially those with young kids. People don't realize how quickly the costs add up without someone at home taking care of things. So, no more excuses, folks. Get the protection your family needs.

800356-4282.

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>> [music]

>> Shane is in Vegas up next. What's going on Shane? [music] >> Hey y'all. Thanks for having me on. It's an honor to be speaking to you today. >> Thank you. How can we help today?

>> Um yeah, so uh favorite topic for you

guys, money and family.

>> Uh long time ago when I was 18, took out

uh student loans. uh with the agreement with my father that they would pay uh until the balance is zero. Um 35 now

balance is still in the mid70s to uh

mid700. [clears throat] >> Oh my gosh. >> What was it originally? >> Yeah. >> Uh it was over 120. So uh they've been paying it down. They've been making minimum payments. >> That's a problem.

>> I I agree with you. Uh the issue I'm really having is that my dad is he's totally fine paying it. He still makes the payments, but my mother constantly brings up the fact that they are paying for my student loans. Um, feels like there's strings attached when at the very beginning there were never uh those agreements put >> and there was a clear agreement.

Hey, we're we're going to pay these off. We can't we don't have the money to cover it, but take out the loan and we'll cover it. Is it in your name or their name or both? >> They're they're in my name.

Uh they have the money. Uh, I mean, right now they could snap their fingers and pay it off, but the the way my father sees it is he can make more money in the stock market, so he just chooses to.

>> Yeah, they're still together. Um, >> are you married still financially? I am married. Yes. >> Okay. So, when you guys are around your parents, how often is that? How often do y'all see them? >> Uh, we I mean we live on separate sides of the country, so once twice a year, but uh even in some phone calls, the still come. >> And what does she say? like what are her comments?

>> Um, a lot of the times it's like revolved around like, "Oh, you just bought a truck. Like that could have gone to >> the student loans or oh, you took a nice vacation. Like why is that money?" But but you know, going back to where I said it's that was never part of the agreement, so I'd never feel >> uh obligated. Um, but then, you know, my father, he's like, "Yeah, I I don't care. I'm still paying them. It's whatever." So, >> have you rather frustrating.

>> Yeah. Do you push back on her at all?

>> I do. I try to keep it, you know, calm and and light, but uh my wife is really

the one that gets frustrated about it. >> That's why I was asked if you were married cuz I feel like I would be like, >> "Oh my gosh." >> See, this is the issue with the student loan stuff is these parents are like, "Sure, go take out whatever you want to go take out." And you're 18, Shane, right? And >> sure, you sign it. I mean, yeah, you're 18.

You're an adult. So yes, you have some responsibility in the sense of like you chose to make that decision, but you also had fully functioning adults in your life that said yes, we and we would pay for this. So I almost would have a very kind but a very clear conversation with her um around the boundaries of these comments because it starts to erode the relationship.

>> Yeah. >> Doesn't sound like I mean that's why you're calling, right? This is your this is >> Yeah. A lot of tension. >> Yes. Okay. >> Okay. Um, so yeah, I mean I would I would tell her and I and I would be very kind, but I would be very very clear and

>> and just and to be honest with her and say, you know, mom, there have been multiple comments made. I mean, you could give her some examples. And the truth is, when I was 18, you all told me that you would take them out and you would pay for this. >> And I'm I'm holding y'all to that word.

I mean, that that's what was said. If something has changed and you and dad agree on a different plan, you're I'm happy to have a discussion with you if that's the case. But that's not been the discussion. And so I need you to stop stop making these comments. They're passive aggressive and and it's eroding our relationship. Can you do that, mom?

And at that point, that's up to her.

She's the adult that gets to make the decision if she wants to continue a healthy relationship. >> Listen, I don't control y'all's money.

That's your decision. So this is now a marital problem they have of mom disagrees with how dad is handling a debt they agreed to pay. >> That's a good point, too. Yeah.

>> So legally, yes, it's yours. They could stop paying today and it's going to come to you. Now, they haven't done that yet, and I'm glad that they're not intentionally trying to tank your life, but this might be another conversation with dad of saying, "Hey, listen. You have the money.

I don't care how much you can make in the freaking stock market. This is eroding our relationship, which is way more important than some spread you could make." And so, you can try to also influence him to, you know, sort of This would solve everything, wouldn't it? If dad just wrote the check, paid him off, and went, "Dude, it's been 17 years." >> Be pissed. I don't know.

Would your mom be mad at that? >> Yeah. H knows.

>> I'm sorry. Can you say it again? >> She doesn't want any of their money to be used to pay for any more of your student loans. She's just done with this whole thing.

>> I It's hard to say. Um I know they're

financially well off. Like they're My mom is retired. My dad, he makes fairly decent living. And I know what their nest egg is and and uh in liquid and retirement. So, I know like >> this is not a big part of their world.

It's not a big part of our their world and uh you know my wife and I we make decent money. Uh so like the payment could it would be totally fine for us to take on. It's just like >> I need to know if I need to start paying my $80,000. >> Do you guys have the money to write a check and pay this off today?

>> Um not in like liquid assets. I mean uh I could save a couple more months and it would be fine. Uh but then it would just wipe out all of our uh liquid investments. So, not >> my wife doesn't really want to do that one.

So, it would probably just be >> what I'm hearing is either way someone's going to be angry. And so, that's the thing we have to make peace with is who do we want to upset? And the truth is you can't control how they react or respond.

>> That's fair.

>> So, I don't I was just saying if you wanted to, this is the other option is you write a check and say, "Mom, I don't want this to come between us and destroy our relationship. Here's the freaking check to pay off the loans. Yep. That's the other pisses me off those because Yeah, because they've been they freaking have had this for almost 20 years.

>> Yes. The immaturity is on mom's side at this point and dad's for >> and I'm sure they are exhausted. But yes, it's >> been two decades, man. >> When your when your 18-year-old wants to go and take out $120,000, you say no.

But no, they didn't. They said yes, we will we will do this and take this on.

And so they're the ones that have been dragging their feet. It's not his it's not your fault. Sh. I mean, you know what I mean? To that degree, cuz there was a deal. There was a deal that was made. >> Um, yeah. So, I'm sorry. That's so

frustrating. But I would I I mean, >> for the for your your wife's sake, for your sake to like be in her presence and have passive aggressive comments constantly. Um, >> yeah, >> I would Yeah, I would be clear and and draw a boundary there. But again, kind but clear.

>> And there might be help, guys.

>> Yeah, there might be a compromise where you go, "Hey, listen. here's how much I'm willing to chip in to just >> Man, you're really trying to bail the parents out, but they're fine. If they were on food stamps, like I get that.

>> No, they have the ability to. And so that's where I go. This is really between mom and dad because they have a disagreement. Mom should be mad at dad, not the son. >> Cuz dad's been dragging his feet for 17 years. Can I remind you?

>> No, they both have.

>> Goodness gracious. >> That's >> And clearly mom doesn't have a vote when it comes to finances. >> I feel like we're getting more and more of these. I don't know why. I feel like I we hear more and more parent resentment guilt to adult children with the student loan debacle in the mix of

someone said they were going to pay, they're not paying or they're paying and they're mad but this was >> asking me for money again.

Yeah. I mean it's just it's so much. Um so >> so can we talk about our parameters around family and money? I think it's a good reminder for everyone listening here which is this. Never loan money to

family or friends. If you want to give money, make it a gift. And please don't go into debt for said gift. That's not really a gift. We've heard that with like, well, mom got me a car. It has a loan on it and so I, you know, I got to pay it, but she got me the car, >> right? Yes. >> And so it's fine if you want to give.

>> And if the giving ends up becoming a pattern of enabling bad behavior or irresponsibility, that's another stop, right? We're not doing that.

>> Um, but the the gets because I mean part of the show is about changing your family tree, right? getting yourself in a position where you can change your life, you change your family's life, you change others lives. Like the ripple effect is beautiful and wonderful and we want that to be, but we also want the people on the other side that are receiving it to be in a healthy good spot themselves to have their own dignity um as adults. So that and then the other thing, George, no co-signing >> ever.

>> Please, please, no cosign. We had a grandma who co-signed. That was last week on the show, I think. I know.

But she was like 92. And this guy's like, "Yeah, my grandma cosigned." I was like, "You poor grandmother. You're he's broke. He's probably not going to be able to make the payment." >> Yeah.

They require a co-signer cuz nobody trusts you to pay it off.

>> And so what happens is you end up not paying it off and they go after poor grandma >> who thought you were going to make the payments perfectly. And she was just more of a, you know, >> more of a just like a nice thing. I'll sign it, but I won't ever have to deal with it. >> Right.

Right. >> Never think that. It will destroy a relationship and cause resentment. And so it's so much easier to just either put the boundary up and to say no or give a one-time gift if it's going to be a blessing and you're not enabling terrible >> time though.

You think just once for the rest of their life? >> Well, not like an ongoing, hey, I'm going to give you a,000 bucks every month forever. >> The pattern. [music] Yes.

>> You know what I mean? If you reward bad behavior, that's when it turns into entitlement. >> Agreed.

Why would I go work harder? That's silly. This is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

[music]

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[music]

Trina [music] is in Florida up next.

Trina, welcome to the Ramsay Show. How can we help today?

>> Hi. Hi. Hey, I'm so excited, you guys.

>> We're excited as well. >> We're glad you called, Trina. We're excited to talk to you.

>> Okay, guys. I'm having this like issue.

I always said I wanted to retire by the time I was 40. I am almost 40.

>> Wow. >> It's an aggressive plan. >> My dad did it twice before he turned 40.

And I'm just like, >> wait, wait. Hold on. He retired twice.

What do you mean?

So he retired from the city and then he

retired from boxing. So he like got to retire twice before he was authority.

>> Was he said boxing retirement?

>> Yeah. >> Like he was a professional boxer.

>> Yeah. He was like semi-pro.

Did he have to do it to earn money?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So he didn't really like get to retire. >> He was semi-retired while semi and then

fully retired. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And he >> I was trying to relieve some pressure for you of like >> is that where this idea came from then?

You're like I want to be like dad. I want to retire by 40.

>> Well I it inspired me. Yes. I like that. I've always been like a overachiever and work hard like yeah. An aggressive goal you know of something big that you're like I want to work for that. I get that. Okay. Okay. Perfect. So keep going.

>> So yeah, how can we help?

>> So I ran into a financial situation.

It's not a lot of debt. It's like $44,000 worth of debt and I make about 60. So, I want to pay this debt off. And I kind of debt about >> um it's like 20,000 in a car.

um like 4,000 about in um personal loans

and like 2,000 in my son's private school

that I still owe and oh credit cards like 16,000 in

credit cards. >> Woo.

>> Doesn't feel like a recipe to early retirement.

>> [laughter] >> Like if I was trying to retire early, I'd probably go, "Hey, I'm going to make sure I don't owe people money and have money saved on top of that." >> And um >> so how long how long has this been floating around? How long have you had this debt for?

>> Um so I filed a bankruptcy about two years ago. Um this is when all of this started. >> So all of this debt was post bankruptcy or did it get were you on a payment plan? What happened?

Um, so actually the only debt that I don't technic like

I don't have to pay back um one of the personal loans, one of the credit cards and yeah >> because of because of the bankruptcy.

>> Because of the bankruptcy. issue is that

I want to keep the relationship with that bank and I want to pay them their money back cuz I never wanted to put the items in bankruptcy. I was still paying it but they said that because I filed a

chapter 7 that they had to put it in the >> What caused you to file bankruptcy two years ago? What was the what were your numbers then?

>> So then I was making about um it kind of

flip-flopped. I was making about 40 then

I went back to 60. Um then I think

before that I made 80. Um so what

happened was I was working for this company. I had moved. I was working for this company. Um basically I decided I wanted to open up my own company because we're under government contracts. We have a certain criteria that we have to meet. When I said that I wanted to open

up my company, the government's agency

said that they had to take away all my clients. So, basically, I went from

having, you know, a a decent income to

like having nothing the next day.

>> Okay. And it was all because of this new business. >> Yes. >> So, the new business never never took off, but you took out loans to float the business for a bit and that's what caused the bankruptcy.

>> No. So, when they took my clients, um,

it took a while. It took about a year and a half for me to open up and to get

clients. So, I started having clients in

September. I had like maybe 15. Um, now

I have like 25. So, and that's all I need. >> Yes. But Trina, I'm What caused the bankruptcy two years ago, though? Was it consumer debt? Was it business loans?

What was it?

So, I had these um student loans and I

put them in an adversary proceeding where I filed bankruptcy to get rid of the student loans while I was waiting for my agency to open. When the agency

um when the agency didn't take off right away, I started using my kids college funds, my retirement boy, >> I started pulling everything out.

>> Okay. And so I started listing um and I

started working as with another company

but that company just didn't pay that much. I >> gota Okay. So Trina I have a new goal for you. I think instead of retiring at 40 we are going to learn to live debtree

>> which I usually do.

>> But this is like Trina. So far it's [laughter] been everyone else's fault and the government took your clients away. >> Oh no. Well, I'm not saying she's pushing on everyone's paw, but like nutrina, you got to be able to say like I I Yes. I I'm used to living with debt, though. From student loans to where you are now, there's a pattern of you using debt. Can we say yes to that?

>> Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. I wasn't looking at it. Sorry. >> No, you're great. No, I just want to make sure we're tracking. So, I think in order to have a completely new mindset with money from where you've been of saying, I'm living completely debtree.

Debt's not an option. debt is not an option. I'm going to save up and pay for things. I'm not going to be making unwise decisions about purchases and pulling money out of retirement or kids college or investments because that's not wise, right?

Where um that stuff is all for the future and I'm going to learn to live within my income and my means and that means making hard decisions about lifestyle and about, you know, yeah, I mean, life choices and everything. And so, I mean, genuinely, I would make that the goal.

in I don't know what two years like make make a make a goal to aggressive goal to

get out of debt to save up a fully funded emergency fund um >> and freeze your credit that way it stops your debtree plan >> two and a half years is okay >> okay that's so great >> we never even got to your question I'm sorry there's so much details to jump into what is your actual question we can help you with >> well I wanted to basically um flip this piece of property. They have a piece of land that's for sale. It hasn't been impacted yet. I wanted to do like a creative finance to see if I can >> No, we're off.

>> Remember 10 seconds ago we talked about >> the new goal.

>> That's fair. That was her original question. That's fair. We made a new goal 10 seconds ago. Yeah. Okay. So So how would you answer how would you answer this now? Trina, answer your own question with your new goals in mind.

So, I am going to stick to my two and a half year budget that literally just looks like this month.

>> And that's what we're talking about, Trina. See, >> be debtree after that and then

maybe save the money instead of

>> Look at you. And how old how old are you, Trina?

>> I'm 38. >> 38. Okay. Can I tell you if you don't retire by 40, you're not a failure?

>> I promise. Can I just promise you that if you don't retire by 60, you're not a failure. >> How about this? You're not a failure.

Period. >> Oh, >> there you go. That's the most encouraging thing I've said today.

>> Rachel can [laughter] attest to that.

>> But the truth is I we have these aggressive goals and we need to create actions to get there. And we can't hold ourselves to these goals because life is going to happen. And so it's okay to pivot the dream. But one thing we can't do is pivot in going backwards and rob our future. Rob our children's future.

You are worth more than that. And so from today forward, you're a person who doesn't go into debt, who doesn't owe people money.

>> And all your decisions can be based off of that value system because that brings you freedom, Trina. There's no shortcut.

There's no like, okay, I can do this creative financing here and do this and I'll make 20 grand just like that and look at that. Like that's that doesn't work. That's not the real world. It is it is hard work. It is the long game. It

is a marathon. It's not a sprint. And it's just a different mindset you have to be in to get true financial freedom and true control over your money. And so

you do have to shift the way you've been doing it. Trina, if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. And [music] so, um, yeah, I'm glad that Trina, uh, answered her own question.

>> We got there. >> We're not going to finance a piece of land to build a home to flip it. Uh, we are going to work on getting out of debt. derisk your life. Debt equals risk. More debt equals more risk. And so this creative financing is just adding more risk to the puzzle. And so be free.

That's your best path to an early retirement. >> You're awesome, Trina. Thanks for thanks for calling.

[music]

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[music] If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using Every Dollar. It's more than just our budgeting app. Now, the plan is built right in. You can track your progress, plus get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that will help you free up more money and work to plan even faster.

It's like having one of us walking with you every day, 24/7, showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. So, start every dollar for free. You can download it in the App Store or Google Play. Miriam is in New

York City up next. Miriam, how can we help? >> Hi, it's a pleasure to speak to both of you. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. Uh my question is about life insurance. Um we pushed off getting life life insurance way too long and I thought it would pretty straightforward.

Um the I wanted to call down insurance

and my husband knew two people who kept

bugging him that they wanted to sell him life insurance. So I said, "Okay, we need a 20-year term." And I think we got

a little screwed by them because we ended up getting a policy which they said it was 20 year but it's extendable 20 year. >> Oh, so after the 20 years you can reup at the current premiums for your age which is going to be two to five times higher >> something like that. But I think when we got the package which was after you know we have 30 days to cancel or whatever but it's past the 30 days. Either way either way I'm going to replace it.

But it goes up even before the 20 years I think. Like there's a whole chart. It's hard to understand. I >> Yeah, >> I'm not really sure.

>> Who'd you get it through?

>> I've Northwestern.

>> Oh boy. Okay, you've said enough. I

would cancel yesterday.

>> It's not a scam. And they're they're a company who does all kinds of financial products, but likely what happens.

Here's what I've seen. It's mostly young guys right out of college who want some sales experience and they sell the scummiest life insurance products to unsuspecting victims like their family and friends. >> Right. Yeah, that's what I've seen.

That's accurate. >> So, I'm not dogging the whole company.

>> Yep. That's exactly what >> that's my brother. Same thing happened to my own brother, right? Some guy from college reaches out. Hey, man. How you doing? >> And so, I would get out of this and I would contact our friends at Xander because they're not going to sell you extendable term life insurance. Term life insurance by definition. >> Already reach out to Xander.

>> Okay. >> I So, I just wanted to know like based on should I take 20 year, should I take 30 year? They said that Dave recommends a child rider, which I never heard on the show. >> Hold on, hold on. Northwestern said Dave recommends a child writer. >> No, no, no. Vander, >> for what reason?

>> Oh, I don't know. I have four kids.

That's why I I I never heard it from him. That's why I I called because I I want to understand. And then somebody else I'm getting very overwhelmed, but somebody else told me that we should really do a disability rider. I don't >> No, there's there's a lot of riders.

And when you hear the word rider, just think gimmick. And so all you need is term life insurance. 20 years should be enough. And here's how to think about it.

In 20 years time, you should be self-insured.

So that's the goal. And if it needs if you need 25 years to get there, then you get 25.

>> Well, and that that's what I'm asking.

How do I We're in baby step 3B. We're going to New York, so that's taking a while. Um I have four kids, one on the way, and I'm not done. My husband and I are both from very large families. So, I'm thinking my kids are not going to be out of the house in 20 years. Should I go longer? Should I look for something in between to add?

>> Yeah. I mean, you could see how much it is because Are you guys in good health, would you say? Yes.

>> Okay. Because that's the great thing about term life is it is so inexpensive and then when it comes up for time for renewal, you can always, you know, go back through and recheck things and make different decisions, right? >> You can always get additional policies, you know, in a few years. Now, it's going to be more expensive as you age.

with them. get the math on it and always stick to term no matter what. Just term and if it's 15, 20, 25, that's fine. And always get 10 to 12 times your annual income or your husband's annual income.

And both of you should have your own individual policies. >> Yeah. And and you're saying not 30, 25

should I shouldn't go more than that.

>> 30 feels aggressive. If the kids are still in the house at that point, that's on them. And you guys will be multi-millionaires by >> I was going to say cuz I mean in Yes.

You'll be selfinsured >> in 25 years. Yes. Miriam, if you guys are investing 15% of your income, if you guys are working to pay everything off, I'm like, it's just that continues to build. That's where you build wealth. And in 25 years, what that's going to end up being is a lot of money. And so for the kids that are in the home, maybe it's one or two of them. They're going to have plenty of money. The others should be out living their own lives.

Um, you know, and not needing your financial. >> You'll have a village at that point to take care of each other. So, I'm less worried 25 years from now about what life looks like if you follow the plan.

>> Exactly. Okay. I I can I ask one more quick question. Sure. >> About if when your income goes up, you're supposed 10 to 12 times your income. So then do you buy another plan in term with for the difference?

>> You can you can get a small policy for the difference? I wouldn't cancel the one you currently have and get a new one. You can always add you look at that like in a year if it goes up every few years. >> It's a parameter.

So if you get a $5,000 raise, you don't need to go out and get an extra policy, >> right? But if you get a substantial raise and your lifestyles change and your expenses have changed dramatically, that's when you go, "All right, we need to reook at this." >> Yeah, it's about every four to five years, I would reook. And in the, you know, the kids situation, too, changes it. I mean, for me, >> um, so yeah, but I'd say, yeah, every every four to five years.

Um, cuz we still get it.

>> I don't know. I I like having it, you know, even if we're debtree and every day there's a part of me that I'm like, nah, we're young and healthy and it's cheap and that's the great thing about >> for what it costs, I mean, it's a great policy to have a long time ago.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, um Yeah. So, anything fancy around it, any words you don't understand, Miriam, usually is like a that's a red flag to me. They're adding things on. Uh if it's a young guy that's in the situation and there and it's all these weird terms again that they're selling you this package, probably not a great deal. Like the simpler the better.

Just a 20 year 25 years >> and they always want to pray on your emotions and the whatifs and well a good parent would do this if you really want to take care of your kids. >> And kids don't need life insurance only you you know I mean all of it. So >> it's meant to do one thing which is replace income. That's it.

>> Yeah. your two-year-old is not bringing, you know, money into the house here, unless he's like a Gerber baby making bank. So, uh, you're asking really good questions, Miriam, and I love that you're taking care of your family in this way. Most people are going, "What the heck are they talking about? I don't have any insurance." And so, for everyone out there listening, you need term life insurance if anybody depends on you, a spouse or children. And it's very affordable. And you can call our friends at Xander and get this done today. 800356-4282

or go to xander.com. They'll take care of you. Rachel and I both have our policies through Xander for our families and it's well worth the money. >> Yeah, and Xander's great because they go and shop.

Yeah. All different companies versus again like a Northwestern, right? To pick on them a little bit, but it's like, okay, it's just one or Affleck, it's just one, you know what I mean? I guess their car. I don't know if they do live. >> They probably do it all these days. >> Probably. But yeah, it's not just the one company that you're getting the price from. What Xander does, they shop all the companies to get you the best price of what you're looking. And a lot of these now have uh no medical exams.

Like if you're under, I don't know, a million dollar policy. Oh, really?

>> You don't have to go get the medical exam or, you know, so that's that's always nice. Not have to get >> convenience. >> Have someone come to the house and get pricricked and get your blood done or go somewhere and get the blood work done. I love it. >> Uh and it's a good idea to get healthy before you shop for life insurance. Cut the bad habits. >> Be thinking about your diet the night before your blood [laughter] gets drawn.

>> It's like cramming for a test. You're like, "Well, if I don't eat bad today, >> fast and drink a lot of water because [laughter] >> you're like googling how fast will my blood work be good if I cut sweets." >> I know. Yep. >> That's a good reminder. >> Yeah. And I think those are some of the saddest calls, George, of um, you know,

um, we'll get, you know, a widowerower widowerower or a widow calling that their spouse passed away and they have kids and they're trying to pick up the pieces, you know, whether they're trying to find a new job or starting to work because they were a stay at home parent or trying to figure out child care for the kids. So they can go to work. I mean, it's just >> it and and if there is no life insurance, >> Yeah. >> then they are they have nothing, you know, they're just like with what it is.

And so it is. >> And the sad part is a lot of people think they're covered cuz they're like, "Well, uh, he has one through work." And they go, "Well, how much is that policy?" They go, "It's $50,000." I was like, "Well, great. We can get by for maybe 6 to 12 months, but what about after that?" And so the goal here is if you make $50,000 and you get a $500,000 policy, you could invest that money and it would be able to spit off $50,000 with the average return in the market. And so that's the goal of getting 10 to 12 times your income is because the stock market historically has done about 10 to 12%.

And so that's the reason for life insurance. That's the mechanics of it. And it doesn't take long. I know it feels like, well, I'm going to die sooner if I get life insurance.

No, you're going to die regardless. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in 50 years, but either way, you need to sleep better knowing that your family's protected.

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by best-selling author Rachel Cruz. You can call us at8825-55225.

That is the only way to get through and get your question answered. Joe is up next in Huntsville, Alabama. What's going on, Joe?

>> Hi, guys. Um, I just want to [clears throat] thank y'all for taking my call and before I get into it, I want to thank all of you for all the work that you do at Church of the Highlands in Alabama. >> A thank you. >> Thank you. >> Good people over there.

>> Yeah. Thank y'all. Well, I'm just calling because um I've got I came into marriage with about uh 30,000 in student

loans. Um and we now owe about 23 on it.

We are not homeowners yet, but we have

been blessed by just gifts um and what

we both brought into the marriage of saving and we have about 122,000 in

savings. >> Good for y'all. >> And thank you. Um but it it was not

mostly us. We eloped and so we got a great gift for but >> nice.

[clears throat] >> Yes. So um I would love to be able to

write a check and get those that's the only debt we have. Um like I said, not homeowners yet. We rent, but I would love to write a check and get that debt out of our life. But we're not quite on the same page. Um my husband's not comfortable with that yet because we're not homeowners and it's just feels like a scary thing to do to just send that much money off. Um not knowing what the future might bring because I am a stay-at-home mom. Um so just you know want some advice.

>> Okay. So his big hangup is he wants to

keep a ton of savings and not pay off anything because of

something possibly happening to

something where income's not coming in and he would rather have $122,000

saved than a h 100,000 in no debt.

>> Uh when you put it like that essentially. Yeah. >> Okay.

>> Because that's Yeah. I mean, that's that's what it is when you break down.

Um, >> and he he wants to be a homeowner first before he pays off the debt.

>> Um, I think he's mostly concerned about

like having once we pay off that debt and then once we do, we're looking to buy a house, you know, in the next end of this year when our lease ends. Um, so when we do end up putting that down payment on a home, where does that leave us? I think that's his concern. Like >> that you won't be able to afford the mortgage.

>> Well, no. Where does that leave our emergency fund and where does that leave if he loses his job or like 3 to six months of expenses?

>> Yeah. So, it's kind of in my opinion the dog's wagging the wait, what is it? The tail wagging the tail. >> Tail wagging the dog.

Yeah. The dog is always going to be wagging the tail. >> The tail wagging the dog because he's going backwards. He's wanting to be a homeowner, which is one of the largest financial purchases you ever make.

One of the most expensive things you ever do is to own a home.

first before paying off debt and almost

regardless of what's in the emergency fund and that's what's scaring him, right? So, if you flipped it and said, "Okay, we need to get rid of the risk of

the debt, then have the emergency fund and then what's left is what we have for a down payment." So that means if we don't have enough by the end of the year, we may have to lease somewhere for

six months and then we buy a home in this next summer versus at the end of this year when our lease is up, right?

>> Essentially, I would say so. Um I think

because say we put 50,000 down on a home, we pay the 22 or 23 off in loans.

That still leaves us, you know, pretty comfortable, I would say, with at least four to six months of expenses. And >> 100%. Yeah. Well, and that's if you guys do nothing for a year, right? You I mean, he's working, right? >> And you guys are putting more money on save, right? Like I mean, what how much margin do you guys have a month?

>> So, we live pretty comfortably on what he makes now. Um, like I said, I'm a stay at home mom, so we're not saving as much as we'd like. We don't invest because we we're just kind of unfamiliar with all of it, you know, we're so new to all of this and like but we have a money market account that we save about 200 a month and then we have a money market that brings in about 150 a month

350 a month right now 1250.

>> Okay. So the question mark is how much house can we actually afford and is this timeline even reasonable? Because I think what he's really saying is things are already tight and it's only going to get tighter if we pay off your debt. But really what it's doing is you're freeing up a payment and getting a better financial foundation.

And if you can't buy a home when the lease is up, that's okay. This is a fake timeline we've made up that we have to be homeowners when the lease is up. >> And so you guys need to sit down and get some real numbers on this and not just well I think and I'm not sure what's going to happen. We need to go here's what is true today.

>> Okay. So my proposal is that we um and

this is like you know understandable. my proposal, we pay about 320 on the loan a month right now and we also tithe 10%.

So my prop so and that still puts us comfortable. So we're like we're pretty frugal. Um so if we were to free up that

320 that would put us saving more like 600 a month. That would like pretty much double the amount we save.

>> So his fear is that we wouldn't actually save it, you know? So which is understandable, but it would just take the discipline. >> So his fear Yeah. is that you guys aren't disciplining

on the loan. >> Yeah, I think it'd be good. >> Well, I believe we are.

>> I think you guys are too. I think he's he's using a lot of these, well, I'm scared. I'm fear. Well, you have fears, too. >> Scarcity mentality. How did he grow up with money? What was his childhood like?

>> Um, I mean, pretty just middle like, you know, general middle class. Um, and

>> I don't believe that his family of origin spoke about money very often. Um

unless it was a tight season.

[clears throat] >> Yes. Okay. >> Whereas, you know, this is the most money I've ever had in my entire life.

>> Sure. No.

>> Totally. Because >> I grew up my mom was a single mom and so just different families of origin.

>> For sure. Yeah. Do you guys sit down and do a budget every month together?

>> We we do. Um, I track every dollar we

spend. Um, and that's like

>> and then we sit down and we close the month and I kind of I [clears throat] keep the spreadsheet because that's just kind of my thing. I'm good at that. And so we but we sit down and look at it together and I say like, "Okay, this is where we spent >> and groceries and this is what we saved and I know where every dollar goes." >> Yeah. Y'all are y'all are amazing. I mean, well done. Okay. So, what I would what I might suggest is I don't know.

There's something about hitting goals together as a couple that is so unifying. And I'm trying to figure out and think through, you know, what could be something that you guys do together that's going to make you both a little uncomfortable, but it's at least getting you towards what you're both wanting.

So, I'm throwing this out here. I don't even know if this would work. I wonder if you guys sat down and just said, "Hey, what if we paid off half the money right now >> and we just wrote Yeah. We wrote a check

>> 12 grand >> and we just paid half of it off.

Therefore, let's create more margin in our life. So, I would pay it all off.

You have 99 left. Earmark 30 for an emergency fund. That's 70 you have left for the down payment. And if you save over 600 bucks a month, you'll have another 8 grand. So, a year from now, you have 78,000 to put down on a house.

How much house can we afford with that number? [music] That's the kind of tactical homework you guys have to do tonight instead of just a lot of feelings. >> Look at you. I know. And I went right into the [music] feelings. >> I just pay half off and just see how we all feel. >> I'm just a nerd. I'm like [laughter] enough. Let's use logic people. But money is always emotional. >> Good.

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[music]

[music]

[music] Julia is in Denver. Up next, Julia, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

Hi. Uh, it's so great to talk to Hello.

Can you hear me? >> Yes. You sound great. [music] We're happy to talk to you.

>> Wonderful. I'm actually a huge fan of your guys' show. I actually try your mocktails on the regular.

>> Oh, fun. Smart money happy hour fan. We love to see it. >> Yes, you guys do talk what everyone else is talking about. [laughter] >> Yeah, >> that's our tagline. >> That's it. That's our tagline. >> Rachel's is very relatable that way.

[laughter] Well, George, I've actually talked to you before when you and Dave were on the show. Um, and I was the one who uh was

asking about my mom's student loan debt and stuff like that. Um, I will say updates from them. I got a job, a full-time job that isn't just VA work, >> which I'm not an Instagram influencer, just to clarify. [laughter] Um, and uh, my husband actually was able

to get a part-time job. Uh, the reason he was able to get that job was because it was a seasonal job, but now we're coming out of season. They're keeping him. Praise the Lord. But it's not

enough. And we're still struggling to

get any other work um, from, you know, just applying. And so we're trying to use uh, what's his name? Ken Helman's strategy, the principle.

>> Yeah. Okay. um by using my company

because they have a position open and my boss said that if we have him apply he'll have a really high chance of getting that position. The problem is he would need a car and we're down to one car right now. >> Okay. >> So being in step two, I'm wondering is

it better to move on or hold off paying

off debt and get a like a beater that'll just work for this job >> because we'll be making more money? Yeah, because how much of a raise would he get?

>> Go ahead. Sorry. >> How much of a raise will he get with the job versus what he's >> So, right now he's only making like it's really low hours. He was getting at most he got 30 hours during seasonal but now he's getting like 15 hours and he paid very little which is really hard for him >> cuz he was a manager and he lost his job because of some other stuff. But, um, so he's having a hard time wanting to ask for more hours knowing how little he is.

I mean, he still is asking for more hours, but they can't really give him much. So, it would raise him by about

$2,000 more a month.

>> Okay. So, he's getting a 24 grand raise.

>> Yeah. >> Amazing. Okay. So, yeah. So, if you guys stopped um the debt snowball, saved up some cash

for him to get a car, and say you p you paused for 90 days and, you know, worked like crazy, did, you know, did whatever you could. >> Yeah. Could you save two grand a month if you really went for it?

>> Yes, we can. Um, we just moved into a

new apartment. So, last month we had to

move into just a better situation for our living. So, we weren't able to get ahead with like debt or anything like that. But that those expenses are no longer worried about. It's just like I I don't have a good vision on how much we have.

I mean, I have a budget and everything and ideally what we should be um making. We're still kind of figuring that out. So, I can't say for sure that we can save about two grand a month. Um but I think it's very doable if we do a little extra Instacart.

>> Okay. I have an ignorant question.

>> Um so, because it's not So, I'm a merchandiser and I go I have 10 different store locations. So, I'm traveling. It's not like an 8 to5 in the same building. You're moving all over the place and he's he would be more of an 8 to5 in the building.

>> No, he would be doing something similar to what I'm doing. >> Oh, so he'd be traveling to different stores as well on his own.

>> Right. Exactly. >> Okay. Well, uh this is a solvable problem. I would pause pause right now and just stack up cash real fast. Now, this is not we're going to take a break for a year from paying off debt. Like Rachel said, this is like 3 months max.

We're going to go really hard. And worst case, if you're not there yet, you need to rent a car for a month, do that.

Borrow a car. Whatever you need to do to get by as he takes on this new job, that's okay. But just please don't take out a car loan cuz you quote had to. I

know you're better than that, Julia. I know, but that's the calls we get.

[laughter] >> He needed a $4,000 truck because he got a new job. >> Yeah. Okay. So, that's the game plan. I How How is it that he's going to get this job?

Um they said that they don't have anyone applying for this position right now. So as soon as we apply they'll get him.

>> Yeah. What would your total household income be at that point?

>> Um so it increase by 2,000 we'd be at 7K

a month. >> The 7K total is what you'd be bringing home a month. >> Mhm. >> Awesome. And then how much debt do you have left?

>> Uh so I did the math and it's actually more than we were expecting. We're in 60K right now. >> Okay. And what makes up the 60K?

>> Okay, so 16 of it, 16,000 of it is his credit card, which I'm getting really nervous about cuz we haven't made any payments on it in a while. >> Yikes. >> Um, and then we have my student loans,

uh, which is about 12K. Um, and those

are under my name. That's not the parent plus loan with my mom. >> Okay. >> Um, and then which you guys advised for me to wait to worry about that. So, I'm not even including that in the >> the parent plus loan.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't worry about that right now.

>> Um, and then there is just like a bunch of odd end things. Like our last apartment we ran into just some issues with the landlord. They didn't take our rent when we wanted to pay because we were behind a month and it was a whole thing. And so now we have $8,000 of dollars to go towards an apartment complex. >> You owe them >> which we >> in like back back.

>> Okay. >> Mhm. >> Are you guys done taking on debt?

>> Because we tried. So Huh. Are you guys done taking on debt? Are you still using credit cards or anything like that?

>> No, we haven't used a credit card ever since we got married. This was before I married my husband. >> Julia, are you guys done if he gets this job? What time are you guys home at night?

>> Like hour hour wise.

That's a great question because he could the position that we're looking for he could do later in the day whereas I can work early in the morning and that would help with the baby because we do have a eight-month at a home. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Um so it' probably be like we I'd be working in the morning and he'd be working at night.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So you guys would but not hopefully not too long term because hopefully once you're out of this debt you guys can you know factor in maybe daycare or something.

I don't know.

You don't want that's not sustainable for your marriage, for sure. >> But here's the math on this. Can you guys put three grand a month with this new income toward your debt?

>> Minimum payments plus extra. Can you do three grand a month?

>> Like after we get the car and get this position >> once you guys are settled and stable in this new life.

>> Yeah, we should be able to.

>> Okay. Because that means 60K, three grand a month, you're done in 20 months.

And that's if you don't do more than that, >> less than two years. Yeah. >> If you guys go more aggressive, you can get it done in 18 months, 12 months. And so >> that's why I was asking about the hours because if you guys could keep up the Instacarting or something on the side and bring in >> Yeah.

Don't stop. >> You know what I mean? Like that's that that's the gazelle intensity that we talk about maybe step two of you're you guys are just crazy people, right? You're just doing anything and everything to earn income, cut lifestyle.

I mean it is like we are putting everything because every if you think about it every $2 $300 that you can put that's not going out in lifestyle towards this debt that's a you know a couple hours that you're not working you know like I mean it's just that give and take. So it's like just deep deep sacrifice. And again if you do that like George said in less than two years you guys could be out which is just huge.

Uh, my whole adult life. [laughter]

>> Don't you think you deserve better, Julia?

>> I do. >> I think you do, too. So, I think we make a plan tonight. We spit shake and say, "Hey, hubby, we're going to go hard in the paint until this thing is gone." >> We're both working like crazy. It's a a competition of who can work more hours.

At this point, >> we're very competitive, so that works out. And [laughter] we're very ambitious. I mean, he has his own uh

business and it's like hard for him to invest in that with all the debt and everything. And so, and then I have like a ministry and there's all this other stuff going on in our life that we want to do, but >> you have you have a great why. He wants to run this business. You want to be generous and run this ministry. So, all of these things will fuel the journey.

When it gets really hard, when you guys are both exhausted and instead of fighting each other, you go, >> "Good job today. Way to go. Thank you for providing for our family. Thank you for knocking out this debt. We are worth being debtree and you guys will get there in no time. Are you guys using every dollar right now?

>> We are. I just got the subscription in December. >> Good. >> You are on the way. Julia, call us back and we will celebrate with you maybe 20 months from now. Worst case. You got this.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> Robert is [music] in Columbia, South Carolina up next. Robert, what's going on?

>> Hey, how are you today? >> We're doing great. How can Rachel and I help?

>> Yeah, so uh I have a lot going on. Um,

first question that I have is where to start with um, everything that I have going on. Um, I've recently in the last

month I own a business. I've had a business now for going on three years.

This will be my third year. Um, first year I did great. Second year I cut back and um, I had too many eggs in a basket and they went with a different contractor and so to speak I'm losing

about 80% of my income. Oh gosh.

>> So, what was it and what is it now?

>> So, um my income was uh 6,000

um or really 4,000

um and uh it's it's dropping down to about uh 2,000.

>> Okay. So, you went from four to two.

>> Yeah. Well, really six to two. Um, but I

was I was putting money back in savings and and using that for the business.

>> Got it. But you were kind of taking from the business. You were taking six for your own personal goals.

>> Uh, yes, sir. >> Okay. >> Are you actively trying to replace that since you know that it's going to be cut? I mean, are you >> Yeah. What's What's the plan for that?

So, um I've been going and meeting with different owners and I actually am looking at taking on uh more contracts than what I had before. I just don't have the contract signed right now.

>> Oh, good. Okay. So, >> in the pipeline, you got some leads here. >> Yes, sir. >> Good, good, good, good. >> But in the meantime, it it sounds like there's other pieces here. Do you have debt?

>> Yes, I do. Um, uh, to be completely

honest, um, I I'm behind on my taxes.

Um, in my personal life, I'm looking at doing a bankruptcy. I have enough money saved up right now to float me by for two months if something does not come through. And then after that, I will basically lose everything that I have built. I have four children and I have a fiance. >> Wow. >> Okay. Um, how much debt do you have?

Um, so after the bankruptcy it will basically uh >> Wait, are you f Wait, have you filed?

Give me Where are we at? When when you say after the bankruptcy, is is that in process? >> I have uh Yeah, it is in process. So, I

have one more final payment before I'll have my court date.

>> Okay. And can I ask why you filed?

So, um I had a few judgments put on on

me um from a past marriage that I had.

>> Okay. >> Um I took all the debt from that and they reached out to me uh and uh put

some judgments on me for some vehicles that we had.

>> Okay. So, you have you're coming out of

that.

Um, and do you have you don't you have no money personally saved for these upcoming months >> other than 2 months worth? That's correct. >> Two months. Okay. >> How much do you owe the IRS?

>> Um, I would say about 26,000.

>> And that is that back taxes or is that hey, I I should have been making these estimated payments. It'll be due in April and I don't have it.

>> Yeah. So that's back taxes and then come April will be for another tax year >> and you don't have that'll be another 26 or so that you'll owe.

>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. So we basically owe you know 50 grand to the IRS. What other debts do you currently have?

>> I have a truck that I'm uh been working

diligently to get paid off. I'm about $900 away from having that paid off.

>> Oh, good. I also have a family vehicle

that I've been working diligently. I'm about $600 from having that paid off.

>> So, $1,500 and you free up both car payments.

>> Yes, sir. >> I would dip into that savings you have and pay those off today.

>> Okay. >> That lowers your expenses measurably.

>> Yeah. How much are each how much is each car payment?

>> Um, so combined they're about 900 bucks.

>> Okay. Yeah. that and then Robert I'm like I don't know I'm just thinking out loud here but if you know you're going to be going down to $2,000 and you know there's contracts in the pipeline but they're not signed and there are no guarantee go get another job can you go work?

>> Yeah. So I'm actually I'm looking at going into drill and making about 10k a month. Um, and the only thing that's holding me up from that is one of the

this is another issue I have. Me and my fiance um disagree on finances quite a bit. Um,

and so this last past Sunday, I started up a FPU um 9week course. Um, so I'm I'm

currently trying to have that conversation with her on cutting back and um canceling out debt to improve our

financial life. >> So when you say you're not aligned, where is she at on all this this financial situation? Does she even know what's going on?

>> Yes. So So she does know what's going on and um she trusts me to provide. I've

always provided. Um, however, you know,

we don't see eye to eye on things such as cutting out Spotify, cutting out all the things that are not necessities to be able to cancel out debt and basically restart.

Um, and we we don't see eye to eye on that. >> Does she work outside the home?

>> No. Um, she currently uh she's a stay-at-home mother with our four children. >> Okay. So, does she understand the reality that, hey, we have $2,000 to cover all of our bills and we can't afford that.

>> So, therefore, we don't have an option but to cut. This isn't like a, hey, let's just really hunker down and get rid of the debt. You guys are in storm mode right now. >> Yeah. How old are the kids?

>> Um, so I have a 9-year-old, um, a

six-year-old, a fouryear-old, and then a

three-year-old. >> Okay.

Yeah. I mean, I I don't know. In my

head, this is like a little bit on fire, right? I mean, you're coming out of a bankruptcy. >> Yeah. >> You guys have $2,000 with tax that, you

know, you have the IRS that's going to be freaking >> You got to focus on that before anything else. >> Yeah. Um, and so for me, it's all it's all hands on deck. So, I need to be looking at what she can do to bring home money from being a stay-at-home mom. Um, I if I'm

you, I'm looking at three different jobs or the 10 or the drill, you know.

>> Yeah. How how sure is the drilling gig and what do you need to do to actually get the job?

>> It's for sure. I just have to go and do the paperwork in a different state and go for the training classes.

>> How long does that take? >> Um, well, they paid me during training. Um, I could probably have that secured within three weeks. >> Go $10,000 a month. Is is she on board with this? >> I don't care. She has to >> because you're ditching the family for two weeks. Is this going to be a problem? And your business as well.

>> They don't have money. >> Yeah. >> No, I'm just making sure this is a reality. He can just go do this right now. >> I know. >> So, the current situation with it is is

I'll have to be gone for 3 weeks, come back home for two weeks. So, there's that. And then >> um >> like ongoing. >> There's also Yeah, it's ongoing. Every month it would be that way. Um, and then there's also the current talk of should I give up on a business that in our first year we made almost 200,000

um and and did fantastic. Um, however,

we did not financially

um save back from this. You know, it was kind of money that never seen. Listen, if I'm you guys, I'm like, we have to have we have to have some major changes in our lives because we have $50,000 that we're going to owe to the IRS with both, you know, both years. Um, you know, we we're I don't know. All to me, I'm like, do what you have to do for six

months and let's reevaluate in August.

Like, go do the drilling thing >> and put every month. I mean, that that'll clear out the debt.

>> Um, you know, maybe you do it for a year and that's it. I mean, talk to people that are deployed, right? I mean, they're gone from their families for 6 months at a time. Um, so it it is possible.

I'm not saying it's the only option, but it's a very very great option that's right in front of you >> for a short season >> for just a season. It doesn't be forever. And then when you guys actually have your head above water [music] and you actually have somewhat of stability, then we can look to see, okay, what do we want to do with this business? And should we, [music] you know, get it back going?

But if I'm y'all and I'm coming out of bankruptcy and [music] my income's being shot, I'm I'm just looking anywhere to make money at this point to feed four kids.

>> That you don't get to live in my lifestyle. >> You don't make $200,000 anymore. That's what she has to realize. You don't. So, what are you going to do?

[music]

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Springs. What's going on, Matt?

>> Hey. So, uh first first thing I just want to say is y'all are such a blessing to so many people.

>> Thank you. I I I have listened for quite

some time and I'm just thankful for what y'all do. Uh and and now I find myself in a situation where I could use some advice.

>> Thank you, Matt.

>> Yeah. Uh so I guess the brass tax of the

situation is I've got a pretty considerable amount of IRS debt. I own

two businesses and I've just kind of got

myself in a little bit of a hole. Um,

and so the question is

if there's any credibility to uh tax

relief programs and and things of that nature.

>> Well, they're often marketed to people who are desperate and vulnerable, which is never a good sign, >> you know, when they're that usually means they're predatory and they're promising way overpromising and underdeling. So, what they tell you to do is basically, hey, don't pay a dime.

you pay us instead and what's going to happen is tanks your credit which with the IRS not the people you want to not pay and so they then try to settle for

you and save you money which by the way you can do all of this yourself and with the IRS they can already set up a payment plan >> so there's really no use for a tax relief program in this situation >> okay >> they're just paid middlemen between you and the IRS >> right and and the other uh your office

that I contacted was more of like a tax attorney that talks more about the the future plan for the taxes for the business to to avoid this issue in the future, which legit may be beneficial.

Yeah. >> Um but but then his office was saying, you know, we don't recommend these tax relief programs because they're they're overpromising, underdelivering. So, >> perfect. I'm in line with an attorney.

That's a good day for me.

>> Okay. So, uh, I guess I guess the question is in your if you were in this situation, what what steps you might take. Um, >> yeah. How much do you make a year, Matt?

>> Um, it's kind of relative. Uh, probably somewhere around 100 or so.

>> Okay. And do you have anything in savings?

>> Yeah. Uh, I typically try not to dip below 15 or 20 in savings. Uh,

>> so you have 20?

Yeah, about about right there right now.

>> Yeah. >> The but the the issue with my particular business is it's extremely seasonal with construction. So, you know, I kind of hunker down in the winter time and, you know, rice and beans and do just about nothing. So, um but then in the the

busier season, it's easier to tackle some of these things. So, >> what kind of construction?

uh outdoor, you know, fence and deck and

uh a lot of carpentry kind of stuff. So >> cool. Well, the good news is you can

still work during that time and make money and you can definitely pay this money back in a reasonable amount of time. Do you have any other debts that are are holding you back from creating the margin to knock this out quick?

>> Yeah, there's still about 20,000 remaining on a heliloc. Okay. Uh, and I

already know that's a teeth grinding word for you probably, but um that you it's it's one of those situations where sure I could pay that off, but then you know, you have to worry about the the bills right now. So, if I were to pay it off, I would wait until the money's coming in more fluently and Okay. in the busier.

>> So, you got 40 to the IRS, 20 on the HELOC. Anything else?

Uh, that's about it. I've paid off, I don't know, 20,000 something in credit cards. Great. No car loan.

>> Yeah. Well, I would, this changes the debt snowball a little bit because IRS debt gets moved to the front. So, even before the heliloc, I would be tackling this 40. And I would just make it an aggressive goal.

And again, I don't know if it's a payment plan that you contact the IRS with, but I mean, I would try to have this all paid off in less than a year. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> so, so I guess other pieces of the equation are I've got to file the last two years of taxes. is I'm behind on that.

10 to 15 after all the expenses and whatnot. >> So let's call it 60.

>> Is that fair? >> Sure. >> So if we call it 60, you know, you owe 60, set up a payment plan with them and maybe it's, hey, you're going to pay a,000 a month or 2,000 a month and then once you get down to that, you know, you got 15 grand left, I would use your savings to just knock it out >> and then you can replenish the savings.

Really, what you do is then attack the HELOC, then replenish the savings.

So I guess the questions then become, you know, I pay a considerable amount of additional principal on my home.

Does it make more sense to factor that into this equation? I'll make the

minimum mortgage payment. Why are you paying extra on the principal of your home right now?

>> Yeah, generally just, you know, you look at the amateurization schedule and all of that and it and it it, you [clears throat] know, over a course of time it just makes sense. Yeah.

>> And it does in the right order, but you want to get this stuff cleaned up. So, if you if you went down to just your mortgage payment, how much does that free up a month?

>> Uh, probably about another thousand or so. >> Oh, great. >> So, how much could you reasonably put towards this IRS debt every month if you got aggressive? >> Well, this is where it gets tricky because, you know, I listen to your show constantly and people are like, well, I make this exact amount every month or every two weeks.

And for me, I have months where it's 15 20,000 and I have months where it's >> 2,000. But you've been doing this a while. So you probably could look at a calendar and semi- guessess like this probably will be good months here, low months here. So yeah, so you may be putting, you know, maybe, you know, 13,400 towards this on a low month, but a good month you could be throwing 3,000 at it, right?

Um, sure.

Uh, so I've been actively attacking it for a couple of years.

Uh but it seems like every dollar that goes into it's just paying off the acrruing interest, you know, you need to get way more aggressive on this, which means all focus is on this IRS debt. No extra on the mortgage. Your budget is bare bones.

You are just covering four walls, food, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance, anything else is going towards this. And try to make make it to where there's no gap in income. Now, I understand you're going to have some really good months and some rough months, but I don't want you just sitting around going, "Well, there's no work to be done right now." >> Sure. So, I guess in general, you you wouldn't, you know, I mean, I could run the HELOC up more and pay that and it might be less percentage that I'm

paying. >> We are not adding a scent to the HELOC.

We're not going to keep going with this line of credit. We are done with that.

So, just keep it where it is. keep up with the minimum payment and then all of your guns are pointed toward this IRS debt for the time being.

>> Now, do you think it would make sense to sell off additional assets to try to do this or >> what do you have?

>> Well, I've got a considerable number of vehicles and machinery that are mostly associated with the business. Uh I mean, they're for all intents and purposes mine, but the business owns them.

>> Yeah. Would it would it decimate the business income if you sold these off? >> Would you need it though to to run your business? Well, I it's probably like a half and half kind of number. I mean,

you know, skid steers and tractors and things that that are relatively essential. Um, >> but do you have one piece of machinery you're thinking of that you're like, "Okay, I could sell that and be okay." >> Doesn't get a lot of use. Doesn't create a lot of revenue right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What could you get for that?

>> Uh, I mean, probably somewhere between

15 and 20. >> Wow. >> Thousand.

Yeah, >> that period with your savings gets you out of the IRS debt like tomorrow.

>> Yes. [laughter] >> I kind of figured y'all would be on that that boat. >> And you can always buy it used later if you need it, right? With cash.

>> Sure. >> Yeah. And that and again, that's all saying that that's not affecting your business. I don't want you to have to turn >> I don't want you to lose half your income because you sold this thing. >> Right. Right. Right. So, you want to be smart about it. But if it's something that you're really not using or really need and you get 20 grand off of it.

Yeah. >> I'm doing that for sure.

>> I mean, yeah. I'm a huge advocate of not having car loans and and I fix them all myself and whatnot. So that >> that's great. Yeah. Anything you have, Matt, I would I would because I think if you had no IRS debt and no HELOC, how

would you feel?

>> Well, like I could scream >> like amazing. I would scream. I'm debtree. [snorts] Exactly.

Yeah. So I'm like, yeah. Whatever you could do to get to that level of peace and control is what we're after. And then later when the business is doing great and you have all this freed up money because you don't have debt, you're able to save.

And if you need to go buy some equipment, >> cash flow some equipment. I'm changing the Dave quote. Now it's sell so much stuff the skid steer thinks it's next cuz it is my friend. Good luck selling it.

[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruz. The number to call is8825-5225

if you want to join the conversation.

John is in Jacksonville, Florida up next. John, welcome to the show.

>> Oh, how are y'all >> doing? Right. How can we help?

>> Uh, yes. Um, first of all, I'd like to say thank y'all for everything y'all do.

Um, my wife and I are 36 years old, and

by the time we're 40, we are potentially going to be net worth millionaires due to what y'all teach on this show.

>> Oh my god. God, >> that's all the work you've guys done. That's >> just sit here doing jack squat. You did the hard work, man. Proud of you.

>> Well, thank y'all so much. Um it's definitely changed a family's trajectory. >> However, unfortunately, um my mother and

father are not in the same state. My father passed away on 12 January and I am my mother's financial power of attorney >> and they are in or she is in some pretty

bad financial jeopardy. So, I look for y'all's advice. >> Oh, no. I'm sorry about your dad. Would you say it was just this January? Like this month?

>> This month, correct? Oh, I'm so sorry.

>> Um, okay. So, what Yeah. What did he what did he leave your mom with?

>> Um, so

we'll go ahead and set aside the $70,000 of mortgage. Um, but it's a total of $113,526.54

of debt. My mom is 61 years old. She's still currently working, but only nets 37,000 a year.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> what kind of debt is 113?

>> Yeah. So, the 113 is $50,000 worth of IRS debt.

>> Um, $23,000 is owed to collections.

Um, let's see. We have

um got to get my stuff together here.

>> Yeah, it's about 40,000 more somewhere.

There's credit card debt, >> right? Right. Yeah. So, let's see.

$22,3529

in credit card debt.

>> And that's different than the debt in collections, correct?

>> That is different than the debt that's in collection. >> The debt and collections, what is that? Is that medical debt? Is that credit cards?

>> Uh, well, it was a personal loan um that

he he he dealt with some dementia later in his life. >> Oh. >> That that that personal loan he ended up

forgetting to pay, forgetting to pay, forgetting to pay. It got pass off collections. >> Okay. Got it. >> Um, so >> and how much is Yeah. Any more

>> I'm sorry. >> Yeah. Any more consumer debt?

>> Uh, yes. They have um $14,755.73

in um auto and personal loans. And then

there's another $3,465

in a personal loan as well.

>> Okay. the the um 14,000 is that one car

or two cars?

>> So the 14,000 the auto the auto loan is

$2,634.74.

The other part of that 14,000 is two personal loans. >> Gosh. Okay. What was he using all those personal loans for? What was he doing?

>> Yeah, that's um we don't even know why they were taken out. We really don't.

>> Oh my god. >> Now, were these all in his name or were they jointly held?

>> One? No. So there all three of these are in his name. Um but there's one person loan in my mom's name which is um $3,465.

>> Well, I just want to make sure that we don't go paying debts that she doesn't legally owe if they're only in his name and not jointly held. Now I'm assuming they did their taxes married filing jointly.

>> Yeah, that's a good question. I actually think they did them separate. Um but I can't speak to that confidently. >> Yeah, because the IRS debt would be Yeah, if it would if they filed jointly, then she's going to be responsible.

But if not, she may not be. The estate would pay it, but not her personally. And if the you know, >> so if the estate can't cover it, she may not owe it personally. That's where I want to get clear on this.

And you may need to work with an estate attorney to kind of go through all this mess and figure out what was owed, whose name is on what, what does she legally have to pay.

>> I got you. I'm taking notes now. Cuz if you know 75% of the debt is wiped away,

you know, you send a death certificate and they go, "All right, we can't collect. It wasn't in her name." And that might really save her in this in that regard cuz she can't pay 113 grand.

IRS debt is is definitely going to fall on her I think regardless of whether or not they um file jointly because

um it for whatever reason and she didn't

know that she wasn't doing this since 2014 at some point in time there's something that changed to where she her taxes were not getting withheld.

>> Okay. >> Um so and his for whatever reason were

not getting withheld. We don't know if he found a way to change that without her knowing. >> Um, yeah. So, it since 2014. Yeah. Now,

when she found out that that was an issue, she got it changed, but that wasn't until two years ago >> um that she found out that and he >> if her taxes were not being withheld, then yes, then some of this IRS that might be in her name. But I would that's where George is saying like to get clear on whose name Yes. is on this debt

because that that will make a significant difference and things like collections. Um John, you guys can I mean and on her behalf, you can help with this. You can settle that kind of stuff so quickly. You need the money for it, but they may settle pennies on the dollar, you know, with this $23,000 and it's not been paid.

It's not been paid. They're not expecting to get their money. So, you may be be able to settle for gosh 5,000. Yeah.

in that, but with the credit cards and all the personal loans, contact the banks and know and and figure out whose name is on the debt. That's going to be really important.

>> Yeah, I I've already put all the leg work into whose name's on the debt. The the tax question I definitely need to get answered. >> Okay. So, have you pulled his credit report?

>> I have. >> Okay. So that's going to give you a pretty clear picture of what is owed and then you can check the tax records as well. >> Did he have retirement savings or anything?

>> He had no savings at all.

>> Oh, I I will give you this. So we we did get a sigh relief >> and I I know how Dave preaches against whole life insurance. I guess in November >> he took out two policies for um whole life insurance >> that nobody knew about. But whenever I started going through statements, I found the payments and one of them is 10K, the other one's 20K. Um, and then

we also just found out that he had a

from his retirement, he had a group term

life that is still that my mom's a

beneficiary of for 29.

>> Wow. >> So that there's like 60k sitting here to clean this up, >> right? We're working on trying to get my mom through the leg work of getting that stuff. Um but you know that's going to

take some time. Right now they got a lot of payments coming out monthly.

>> Yeah. >> And you know she gets paid on a weekly basis. >> Yeah. >> Can she make more? I don't know what she does but at at 61 she she might still have you know another 15 years of work

to go. And so if she can go make 50 or 60 this changes her life dramatically.

um she currently works for the city. Um

and she's trying to work on that retirement. Now, she might be able to pick up a side gig because there is a retirement involved in her currently her current job. Um but she may be able to look into picking up a side gig. I'm not so certain that she'd be willing to leave.

>> Yeah, it would be better for her to [music] work hard and work uncomfortable hours honestly to get some of this cleaned up while she's young. So that way in four, five, [music] 6 years, she can possibly scale back while still saving for retirement and hopefully maybe still have enough there.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseyolutions.com/start.

Answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

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>> [music]

[music] >> The Ramsay Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. You don't have to stay stuck in defaulted private student loans forever. Y Refi [music] helps borrowers take back control with affordable refinancing options that actually work. Learn more at yrefi.com/rramsey.

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>> Today's question comes from Lucy in Oregon. She said, "I'm concerned about being a target of deed fraud if we pay

off our mortgage. If we keep our current mortgage, the bank would have to notify us if someone tried to take out a second mortgage to steal our equity. We're both in our 70s. I am retired and my husband plans to retire soon. The balance on the mortgage is $48,000 and we have the funds to take out of our 401k to pay it off. What should we do?

>> Wow.

Okay. Well, I mean, deed fraud, it does exist, but I'm not going to be so paranoid that I keep my mortgage around for us to do it, >> right? Because you can always, you know,

if, god forbid, that happens. It's not super common. Uh, more when you're like, you know, buying homes, making sure the deed's, you know, good. And I don't know, there's something. >> We bought a home recently. And we got owner title insurance which protects you against that. And so if you're worried about it, I would look into one of those policies. >> Yeah. To do that. >> And you can sign up with your county and get deed alerts as well.

>> Um so that's also one way to protect >> and you can also, you know, if it did happen, god forbid, you're not going to be on the line for it because it's fraud. And so you can go through the bank and, you know, maybe some, I don't know, lawsuit stuff, but at the end of the day, you're not going to have to owe it because it's fraud at that point.

>> Yeah. So, I wouldn't I wouldn't be so worried that I avoid paying my house off. That's wild. Um, you're in your 70s. There is a much more risk with this

mortgage hanging around than there is that you guys experienced deed fraud. Y >> So, I wouldn't worry about that. I would just pay it off and do your due diligence to stay protected. You know, freeze your credit, check the records with your county regularly, get the owner title insurance if you can, all of that good stuff. But, it's a good question and it's a valid concern. So, thank you for that. Allan is in Colorado up next. What's going on, Alan?

>> Thank you for taking my call. I um have a question about a 529 account uh that

my wife and I have for our son. When he is finished with college, which is just a couple years down the road, there'll be approximately 120,000 left in the 529

account. >> Oh, wow. Way to go. >> I haven't Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty strong. Um, I have an opinion on what to

do with it, but I was just curious to get yall's take. >> How old is the 529? When did you open it?

>> Oh, boy. Um, our son is 20, so let's say

20 years ago. >> Oh, great. I was going to say there's the with the new secure 2.0 act, you can roll over up to 35 grand if it's been

open for 15 years. You know, you can do that periodically. You can't do all 35 at once, but up to the Roth IRA limit, you can start funding that. So, that's one option. >> Yeah. Do you have Do you have other kids, Alan?

>> Uh, no, we don't. Just >> We don't. Okay. It's just this. Yeah.

Well, if you do that, you know, that's 35 out. So, you got about what 85 or so, 95 >> left. Um, >> you said you had a plan already. I'm curious as to what you wanted to do.

>> So, we My thought is is keep it. Keep

the 529. It's we're we're the guardian of it. Put it in his name. He's an adult now. But don't let him touch it. Just have it be there. So it's generational.

You know, when his kids are ready to go to college, that's going to be a pretty large sum. When his kids' kids get ready to go to college, it'll be astronomical.

>> Um it's something that you can really just just leave.

>> That's true. A lot of people don't think about that. It becomes like an endowment basically for your own family, generational wealth that no one ever goes into debt for education. And that's personally what I'm doing. A lot of people go, "Well, I don't want to overfund it because what if they don't go to college?" And I go, if I overfund it, they're going to love old old great great grandpa George for setting up this 529 many moons ago.

>> And can I do some math for you? Your kid is 20, right?

>> He's 20. >> So let's say he has a kid at what? 25.

Is that fair?

>> Um, it's optimistic, but sure. We'll see. >> Should we go 30? Is that more realistic?

>> That's Yeah, >> go plus 18 years. That kid then grows up. >> Yes. So your son will be 48 when your grandson granddaughter goes to college.

Theoretically, how much would be in the account? >> From 20 to 48, if you just left, let's say, 90 grand in there, right?

>> Didn't do anything. >> You never contribute another dime, you'd have $1.4 million when he's 48. I hope

that's enough to cover college at that point.

And and something too I was thinking is even if his kids don't want to go or do

go and there's extra at 65, correct me if I'm wrong, he can start using that for his own retirement with with no penalties. >> Yeah, there's a lot of stipulations with the 529 that and even if he used it in

before then, you know, he'd pay the 10% penalty, but other than that, it's not like wasted money thrown down the toilet. So, I think you're being very wise with this. And I love the idea of creating generational wealth. And a lot of people don't realize the definition of beneficiary family is pretty loose. And so, siblings, nieces, nephews, future kids, yourself, your spouse, a grandchild.

There's so many options here that you could bless someone with in your family.

>> Agreed. That's right. >> So, let's say you got a brother and they're like, "Hey, they didn't prepare, but the kid doesn't deserve to go into crippling debt just because of that. I'd love to transfer this to them." You can change at that point. Yeah.

>> Yeah. There's a lot of ways you can go with it. >> Yes, for sure. Well done, Alan. That's usually not It's usually the opposite problem that we uh talk to people about.

So, >> it's like a parent plus loan. This is the exact opposite. So, I'm curious, how much money did it cost for your kid to go through school?

>> So, first off, something else, too. We we owe it to Dave Ramsey from like 2005.

You all have been a blessing to both my wife and I. Um so much so we we actually taught many many FPU classes.

>> Thank you. >> So yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome.

So th this 529 account, we actually

showed him how compounding interest works. We stopped investing uh in the

529 when he was a freshman in college at

150. That's about where it was at. He's

gone through three years of school and

it's at 159.

>> Wow. >> It's crazy. >> So, you're telling me that it was growing faster than you were withdrawing?

>> That's what I'm telling you. >> That's incredible. >> That's amazing. >> And it sounds like he went to a reasonably priced school and maybe even got some other scholarships.

>> A few scholarships. He wasn't, you know, he wasn't Albert Einstein, but he did okay. And uh yeah, it was it was a state school, so 20 22 23,000.

>> Totally. >> That's incredible. >> Yeah, >> that's the dream. Allan, well done. Well done. We just just applaud you. I mean, honestly, that is >> if you're in the family tree of Allen, you should be thankful right now. Pretty awesome. Thank you for the call. That's that's a cool kind of case study in what actually happens when you do it right.

>> Yes. >> And so I always recommend get started early on that 529. Even if it's a 100 bucks, 200 bucks, 300, 400, 500. Now

you're talking six figures in there by the time they're 18. >> For sure. And the college conversation I feel like has been around a little bit changing, right? That college is changing. We don't know what it's going to look like. >> Are we all going to be YouTubers and AI is going to do all the work [laughter] for us? >> Yeah, that's right. Like we don't know.

But just remember, it's not stuck in there. To your point, it's not like you're, you know, it's an insane amount.

If you were to pull it out, just say like, god forbid, you're like, listen, we don't we don't need this at all, but we need the cash, so we're going to take the penalty. Okay. Okay. So then you do that, right? And you pay some of the penalty, but then you have your cash.

It's not like you lose it completely. So >> absolutely. And people ask, well, what if I want to invest for my kid for something else other than school? I say, great.

Do the 529. Don't trade those dollars for investing over here. If you want to invest on top of that, you can just open a brokerage account in your name, a non-retirement account, and put money in there. I'm not a fan of putting the accounts in your kids' names because they legally then have access with the, you know, the UGMA, UTMA.

At 18, this kid might have 120 grand that's legally theirs. >> That's frightening.

cannot be trusted with a $120,000 pile of money. Most adults can't be trusted with that. >> I was going to say, yeah. >> And so, I like the idea of me being able to control how much to give to that child for a, you know, a wedding or a down payment or a car, whatever it is to help them get a leg up.

>> Yeah. delayed gratification for a uh 45year-old, 50-year-old, it's probably a little bit more embedded than a 18-year-old. So, >> they need to their prefrontal cortex is not yet fully fully there. So, that's personally what I'm doing for my kids.

I got the 529s for each of them and I've got the brokerage accounts. So, they'll be very thankful one day when homes are $4 million. >> That's right. >> And your grandkids.

>> That's so weird to think about. But I think Grandpa George, I'm going to settle into that. >> I love it. I'm going to be cranky. You're going to be like George Banks on uh like Steve Martin on Follow the Bride. >> Oh, that's a good one. I thought you were going George Bailey. A lot of good Georgees up there in movies.

>> Oh, it's a Wonderful Life. That's a good one, too.

[music]

[music]

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All right, we've got Lonnie up next in Dayton, Ohio. Lonnie, you with us?

>> Yes. How you doing? >> Great. I see on my screen here that you were a baby steps millionaire.

>> Is that true? >> That's correct. >> That is fantastic. Congratulations.

Every now and then, we like to highlight a real person who followed the plan, follows these principles, and has won with money doing it with a bunch of zeros on the end. And you are that person today. So, congratulations.

>> Thank you. So tell us your age.

>> I am 54.

>> And what is your net worth?

>> Uh 1.86 million.

>> Fantastic. And break the mix down for us. Uh, I have about a I have a million in

mutual funds that are scattered through my deferred compensation, a Roth IRA,

um, a small annuity, and a few hundred,000 in a uh, investment through my uh, bank.

>> Cool. What else? And uh I have 400,000

in my pension which is a PERS and that's

the account value. If I were to quit they would give me that amount or if I stick it through a couple more years I I would get the uh pension.

>> Awesome. And and I have uh 500,000 in

real estate.

>> Fantastic. Is that your primary home?

>> I have uh I have two homes. I have a my

primary home which is just a modest uh couple hundred,000 home and then I have a condo in Florida which is another couple hundred thousand too. >> Awesome. >> Awesome. And they're paid off.

>> Yes. >> Fantastic. >> Well done. Lonnie, what do you do for a living? >> Uh I'm a manager for a municipality

drinking water facility.

>> Okay, >> cool. So kind of public works utilities.

>> Yes. I've been there 30 years.

>> Fantastic. Okay. And what was your worst year of income in this field and best year of income?

>> Um, I started out um $11.25

an hour in 1996 and I thought it was great pay. >> That's still pretty decent, honestly.

>> Yeah. [clears throat] And these last few years, we've been so short-handed.

Uh, I've been doing a lot of overtime.

So, it's just these past couple years have just been tremendous.

>> Six figures.

Yeah. Easy. 150,000 a year. Close.

>> Awesome. Great job. Okay. Did you inherit any of this money?

>> No, I I did not. But I I would like to say that my f my dad, he did give me

close to 10,000 when I was a a young kid, a minor.

And I uh since I I would get these

statements from that money and I would see that grow and that just fascinated me that this money would grow like that.

And uh being a minor of course I couldn't touch it but I could you know I still felt like it was mine. >> Yeah. >> So what once I became an adult I just it

just made me want to save more.

>> That's awesome. So did your dad teach you these financial principles?

Yeah, he he did. He was uh he's he's uh

very, if I could say, tight with his money and uh and you know, and I can

understand why. So that he taught me that. >> Yeah, that's awesome. Did you uh get a four-year degree?

>> I have an associates in mathematics and

uh yeah, I have an associates degree.

>> Awesome. >> Fantastic. >> Yeah, >> man. You've really been crushing it. Are you single?

Uh yeah, single, no kids. That does that did help. So it >> just helps speed things up. Less expenses, less people in the way as you are building wealth. >> That's good. What kind of car do you drive, Lonnie?

>> Um I have a couple vehicles. Um

uh you know, the just the average uh truck and a car. I've I've never owned a new car.

>> What's the year on those?

>> My truck is a 2012. Pretty low miles.

>> Is it a Toyota?

>> It is a It is a GMC.

>> GMC. Okay.

>> We get a lot of Hondas and Toyotas on these calls, so I was curious. >> Well, those are those are good cars.

Yeah. >> What else you got?

>> Uh, I have a Ford Crown Victoria. It's an old cop car that that I was able to buy and it's a heavy duty car. So, >> fantastic, man. So, what do you do with with all the extra margin now at 54? I mean, you could retire if you wanted to, but it sounds like you love what you do.

>> Uh, you know, that's that's a topic I wanted to talk about someday. You know, later on as I have this pension and I and I if I can if I can wait two more

years, I'm I'll have my 32 years in.

But, you know, just thinking about that, I just God, I don't know if I can do it.

You know, could I could I retire in just a year? Is it worth waiting for that pension? What happens in two years with the pension? You get a big monthly payment.

>> Yeah, in two years I I'll have once you get your 32 years, you qualify for your monthly pension, >> which is how much? >> But you uh $8,200 a month.

>> Nice. >> That's a sweet payday.

>> Yeah. At 54. I'm waiting.

>> You're still a young buck at 56, my friend.

>> And then [clears throat] you don't even have to touch your investments ever again. It'll just become like generational wealth.

>> Yeah. Right. or you don't really have a lot of >> people to leave some. But also, Lonnie,

>> go have some fun. >> Go do something crazy.

>> What is the thing that you still want to do that you're like, uh, I want to do this thing. This is the big splurge for me. >> Yeah. What's like the big thing?

>> I I just I I want to travel. I I love

traveling. >> Yes. >> What's the next trip that you're excited about that you want to book?

>> Uh, looking for I'd love to go to Norway. Um, just I I I been to Europe a few times.

I've been to Australia. It's just I just >> I love the idea of new places.

>> That's fantastic.

>> Love it. >> Man, you're an inspiration, Lonnie.

>> A lot of people want to be you when they grow up. And you've done a good job. You can you can tell these principles start early. You can make up for lost time if you're starting late at 40 or 50.

But man, you've been working hard for 32 years, living on less than you make, putting money into the investment accounts day in day out. >> Yeah. And his, you know, his best year, he was saying, was recently at $150,000, which is a lot, right? But also, it's not like he's making >> $500,000.

>> You don't have to make half a million dollars to do this, right? But it is that consistency over time that we see day in and day out with these um net worth, you know, baby baby subs millionaires.

>> It's encouraging. And that really is is these are the principles, guys. Here's the recipe. If you're like, "Well, how am I going to become a millionaire or a multi-millionaire, which, you know, he's on his way to?" Here's the principle.

Live on less than you make. Invest the difference consistently and then just wait and compound growth will eventually take over. And what you realize is you put $100,000 in over time, but now it's grown to a million dollar. So $900,000

might just be the compound growth.

>> Yep. >> Because your $10 made a dollar, so now you have $11. Well, that made another,

you know, one $110. And so, it keeps spiraling and adding up over time. And it's hard because you don't see it at first. At first, you're like, "This isn't even doing anything. I'd rather enjoy this money." But if you just wait and hang on and you can type some numbers into our investment calculator on our website, it will blow your mind.

And if you got kids, I mean, he said, "I got this at 10 years old." >> Yes. >> And he didn't even have the internet back then to pop in an investment calculator >> to see what that would He had to do like math on paper. >> But that's a what a testament to his dad though. His dad brought him in and showed him how and it worked.

So to to Lonnie's credit like he it stuck for him. >> But there's something about, you know, exposing your kids to this stuff to be like, "Hey, this is what can happen, right? You're giving them that knowledge and that's a gift." Like what Lonnie's dad did. I'm like, "Yes, >> that's huge." I love that we have our Ramsay education foundations and personal finance curriculum in high schools all across the country and we show them the com.

That's one of their favorite edition. So, yes, you can buy it for your kids at home. >> So, ramsyeducation.com, if you're like, "Hey, I want my kids to get this earlier than I did." Or maybe you still need to learn. That's okay.

Just lead and say, "Hey, I want to learn along with you." And that compound growth lesson will blow their mind.

I'm good to I got enough toys. Mom, can you teach me how to like save this money, invest it?" That's a cool lesson.

Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

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Our [music]

scripture of the day, Psalm 94:19.

When anxiety was great within me, [music] your consolation brought me joy.

Jim Collins said, "Greatness is not a function of circumstance. Greatness, it turns out, is largely a matter of conscious choice and discipline. I like

it. Paul is up next in Phoenix, Arizona.

What's going on, Paul?

>> Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

Um, I'm probably overthinking this. I know you guys I listen to you pretty religiously and um, you say pay off your house as soon as possible.

Um, we owe maybe 180 on our house. Um,

it's worth in the mid 400s and we have the cash to do that. But my only

concern, not a concern, is we refinanced in 2020 when the rates were 3%.

Does it make sense at this point still to pay that off or use that money

elsewhere? Um, we have we have IRA,

401ks, owner KS, stuff like that. Um,

going and I didn't know if I should put be putting more money in that or just pay the house off. >> Well, where are you guys at in the baby steps? Do you have any consumer debt,

>> credit cards? Um, I have a work truck payment. Um, I do home remodeling. Uh,

general contractor. >> How much do you owe on the truck?

>> Like 40. >> Okay. And how much do you owe on credit cards? None.

>> Oh. Oh, no credit cards. I'm sorry.

>> What else? >> Um, minimal scooter loans. I I don't know. It's like Oh, I shouldn't say minimal. 35,000 maybe.

>> Okay. And how much do you have in savings?

>> Um, I want to say 350 350,000.

>> Why are you Why don't you pay pay off everything? >> You could pay off all of your debt and your mortgage, like your consumer debt plus mortgage, and still have money left over.

Well, I'm looking at possibly buying a lot or two and building a house. Like I said, I'm a general contractor. And >> building a new house?

>> Yes. >> And still keeping the old one?

>> Well, yeah, it would it would be for um

selling uh buying a lot. We can build

the house roughly for 200,000 with the

lot. Maybe 220 and sell it for 320 330.

>> Okay. Well, here's also not to live in.

>> You're just It's like a speck home that you just want to sell because you can do this stuff. Okay. Well, here's where that would fall in the baby steps. And this is the plan we teach.

It's the one Rachel and I follow. And here it is. You pay off all consumer debt. Then you get a fully funded emergency fund.

Then you're investing 15% of your income into retirement, putting a little away for college. Anything else can go towards mortgage principle. And so if you followed that through, which you can do in one fell swoop, which is amazing, you would pay off consumer debt.

>> Um, roughly, yes.

>> 40. Okay. And you said you had 350, right? In savings. >> Yes. >> So, you pay off the 75 in consumer debt.

Let's leave another, I don't know, 40 for your emergency fund. Is that fair?

>> I I would think so. Yes. >> Okay. And then we're going to subtract your mortgage. Um, that had that Yeah.

180. So, that leaves you with a cool 55 grand left over to then start. That's kind of your your new fund to start on this house project. So, what's the lot going to cost?

>> The lots are 30.

>> Okay, roughly. >> So, you could buy the lot for now after doing all of this. And by the way, think about how much you have freed up. What is your truck payment?

>> Um, 800.

>> And what's your student loan payment?

>> I want to say 300, 325.

>> And what's your mortgage payment?

>> Um, I pay more than the minimum. I don't remember the minimum, but I pay like 1,600 a month. >> And that's with extra. Yes.

>> So, should we call it 1,200? You think you're putting a few hundred extra?

>> I think it's in the 12s. Yes.

>> Okay. So, you would free up $2,300 a month, which means you could save 28 grand in one year just by freeing up the payments. That's by doing nothing else.

That's without your extra.

>> Okay. >> Which means you could probably cash flow this build

>> after I pay everything off.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And it reduces your risk.

Think about that. Now you're not freaking out cuz you don't have a mortgage payment. You don't have any consumer debt. And you can cash flow this whole project. And then you're less worried and less desperate as you go through with this.

>> Okay. >> That puts you in baby step seven. So then the world is your oyster. You can invest more than 15%. You can purchase real estate in cash. And that's exactly what you're going to be doing, right? You're not taking out any debt to do this lot or build.

>> Um I wasn't planning on it with the cash I have currently. Plus, one of my 401ks is actually a money market, which I have like 130,000 in it. So, >> you're telling me you didn't invest the money?

>> Um, >> was it ever invested?

>> Well, some of it, like I said, some are in Roth IRA, Roth and traditional IAS

and and a couple owner one owner K.

>> So, that's all that's all through this market. >> Yeah, but if your 401k, if the money's in a money market account, that's not invested. So, >> well, it's a separate amount that that's

>> Okay. So, you you do have a 401k that has investments, >> correct? >> Okay. And then you just have a separate money market. >> I wouldn't touch any of those. I think you can cash flow this. You It sounds like you have a great income, too. What do you make a year?

>> Um, most years in the mid low to mid 200s.

>> Fantastic. >> It's great. And so worst case, this this lot and build might be delayed a tiny bit, but man, the piece it's going to give you and the the d-risking you're about to do by paying everything off, it's going to feel so good. And I have no doubt that you're going to be able to stack up that savings account right back to where it was.

>> And I know it's such a weird way of looking at real estate because people, you know, they don't have the cash, Paul, like you do, right, to be able to go in and and do something. But the beautiful thing when you do it all with cash and you know this being in real estate I'm like you know even if the world you know goes up and a pandemic again or whatever and everyone kind of freaks out and I don't know there there's just something about saying okay I don't owe a bank this money on this real estate and if we have to sit on it for a little bit we're in no rush we don't owe anyone anything on it so we can actually we're not urgent to get rid of it because there's a payment and we're all stressed about it and you would actually possibly lose money in that way.

we're gonna just have the ability to have time on our side and all the control and all the power and then when it does sell and I'm praying it does and you make a hundred grand that's an extra hundred grand just to you guys right there's nothing to to pay back so there's something so nice about and I know you said originally you were going to do that anyways um but I would encourage you to because this plan the baby steps it does cause a little bit more patience because you are going to have to save up to do this where you think like okay but I could just do it today because I have the money But doing it in this order, it's a little bit slower, but it has way more control and way more peace.

>> Okay. All right. >> So, the big question everyone wants to know, are you about to go pay off your consumer debts today?

>> We are going to plan it. Yes.

>> Yeah. >> That's a win, man. I'm so proud of you, Paul. Dude, you're a stud.

That's incredible. >> Well done. >> Cuz if you have the savings muscle to save up 350 grand, that tells me you're going to build massive wealth. And so this debt is just a little, you know, it's an ankle biter at this point for him.

>> That's right. [clears throat] That's right. Just get rid of it. That truck drives different when it doesn't have a payment attached.

And you can never be underwater on a paid for truck. That's the beautiful thing. >> Yes. Not having that payment.

>> That is a controversial Ramsay principle is paying cash for investment real estate. It usually shuts. It's like we're dream killers. >> I know.

>> Like Rachel, can I get a property? I want to be an investor and I want to have an Airbnb. And we're like, do you have money? You >> do that?

>> I bought a course from Jared and he's so

>> never trusted Jiren with a course. It's so true. But again, our plan is not about well, what is the fastest way to get a bunch of money quick, you have to factor in risk. You have to factor in your own mental and emotional health when you have that payment you have to make every month and it has to work out and you have to get it booked on the Airbnb and you have to have a tenant.

You have to have a buyer for that spectrum >> or it's coming out of your pocket and then the whole thing it's just like >> and then there's a job loss or a spouse wants to stay at home or there's a health issue. >> Life happens. >> That's the thing when everything's going perfectly. Sure on paper you might be able to make it work but right >> we plan for the things that are unplanned. >> Yes. Because if or when life happens and

all your plans go up in smoke then that's where that's where the stress in life comes, right? And so if we can be avoiding that for Yeah. Maybe not making the risky big moves, but over time, just like um Lonnie, we talked to, you know, our baby steps a millionaire. Over time, it works.

That's the thing. This is slow and low. Yes, it is. >> You got to be a crockpot in a world full of microwaves.

And that is so difficult cuz our world is moving so fast. And if you just go on social media, you're like, I'm behind. It's too late. I need to do 17 things.

Why don't I own 10 Airbnbs by the time I'm 30? I'm a total failure. That's how it feels if you just start scrolling the internet. And so you've [music] got to unplug, get the blinders on, going, I'm going to build wealth with peace [music] instead of risk.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

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## 64. Financial Stability Is Crucial When Life Feels Uncertain | February 12, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside the lovely Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in is88255225.LE88255225.

You ready to go? >> Let's do this. Ken, >> she's ready, folks. Joe starts us off in Newark, New Jersey. Joe, how can we help today?

>> Hi, sir. Uh, got a small distribution business plus uh honey packing facility.

We recently had a fire. I lost all my merchandise and goods. I owe SBA and

credit card bills. 70,000 on the card

and SBA about 60,000. I don't want to

file bankruptcy, but I want to know what is the best way to move forward.

>> So, you you've lost everything in a

fire. Is that what you said?

>> Yeah, there was a fire in the warehouse.

Um burned all my merchant Yeah. burned

all my merchandise and my machinery.

>> Any um will insurance pick up some of that? >> Uh unfortunately, I did not have insurance. Oh no.

Okay. >> Wow. >> How long ago did this happen, Joe?

>> This happened on January 1st. This this January. >> So, how have you been have you been running the business at all for the last

um 50 days or has everything been on

pause?

>> Everything been on pause. Um just had a

little saving on a side that I am using to stay alive.

>> Oh my gosh. So, you literally have no business to run. You can't just start up from scratch again. True or false?

>> I can't start from scratch again.

>> Okay. What would What would What would you need to start from scratch?

>> Um, merchandise.

>> What were you selling?

>> I was selling a lot of stuff. I was selling teas, oil, cooking oil, essential oils, salt, salt.

>> Okay. So, do you have enough cash to be able to buy some products, some supplies, so that you have something to sell?

>> Yes, I have a little cash.

>> Okay. So, >> my big >> What's your question for us?

>> I am concerned about my SBA loan and my

credit card that I have racked up 70,000. Um, I don't want to file bankruptcy. I want to know how what is the way to go with these guys and how do I explain them so this way at least they give me some time to >> get back in there. >> Yeah.

You don't have anything to worry about on the credit card because they they you just call them up and you tell them what's going on and and the fact of the matter is if you were to file for bankruptcy, they're not going to get much, right? And so we talk all the time about people have to settle with credit card companies. That is the least of your worries. The credit card debt is down the road.

We're gonna have to get you back up and operational.

stretched, I guess, between two key things, Rachel. One, uh, taking care of your needs right now because you have no income, and two, buying some inventory

that we can turn around, which helps us get paid. >> Yeah. So, on Yeah. On the income side, Joe, that's what Ken's talking about, which is what you're going to have to start doing and or getting another job where you can be making an income ASAP, right?

That you may not have the the leeway like this is to be working. But then the debt side of it, yeah, with the credit cards, especially if you are late and it goes into default, it'll go into collections >> and and in this case, I'm like, you know, some people want to do that way, Joe, and they have the money to pay it, they just don't want to pay it, so they take that easy way out. You don't have money to pay it. So you legitimately probably if you stop paying them like they will go to collections and you're going to have to tell them like yeah I don't have money and then that's where the settlement can come in that if you save some money and and a lot a lot of the times I mean it's it's a nickel on the dollar pennies on the dollar that they'll settle for.

So there's a good chance that this 70,000 if you get some money saved you may be able >> to settle some of this for 10 15,000 right?

is the SBA and who's it with? What is

it? Bank or credit union? Local bank, big bank. >> Well, I applied uh SBA through Chase.

>> Okay. Um

yeah, I mean, you could go down the same route and talk to them. I think that's a little bit of a harder game to play than the >> Although, here's the deal. There is a shot at the humanness of your situation.

>> And by the way, they're going to be very suspicious. But to the extent that you can show them you're not making this up.

This isn't some fraud end around your

world got rocked and you hope you can get a real human on the phone and you just tell them what's going on and to the best of your ability say here's what the next three months looks like for me.

I've got just enough excuse me I don't know what's going on with my voice all of a sudden. Uh but I I would be casting vision >> now. They may not care but Rachel I think it's important to at least go here's where I'm at. I don't want to file bankruptcy. Yes. >> Cuz they know what happens if you file for bankruptcy. >> They don't get anything. Yeah. That's right. That's right. >> So, I do think there is a humanness to this. And I think again, I'm such a

take the bull by the horns kind of guy.

And I my advice is always going to come down to it may not matter, but I certainly would cast vision with them for three. Here's what's going to happen the next three months. In six months, I think I'm going to be able to start making payments again. I would do this with the credit card company as well because you have an extraordinary circumstance and if you got a good track record, your payments were always on time, you make a case for why they should not harass you.

>> Got you. >> You have nothing to lose with that approach and everything to gain.

>> That's right. And do not by any means, Joe, give them access to your checking account or any accounts. Okay. So, this is keeping them at an arms length, if you will, but seeing if they'll negotiate at any point.

Um, and usually with that that settlement, you you usually have to have the cash on hand to say, "Hey, here's $5,000. Will you settle, you know, 30,000 of it or whatever, whatever the case may be." So, um, so you kind of have a couple of lanes you're going to have to be thinking about. One, restarting the business, which is what you were saying at the beginning of the call, Ken. Also, just having money to pay your bills as we sit today.

And you know, if you have a family and you're supporting people, like figuring out some income, which means you may be doing a job that is different than what you were doing for a period of time, which is fine. We're just bringing in an income.

credit card companies, and Chase, um, about the debt just to see if there's, um, you know, what that looks like. And again, it may take a few months of you not paying for it to kind of get to that point. Um, but I'm with I'm with Ken. as proactive as you can be in these situations, the better off you're going to be versus just going and filing bankruptcy or keeping this around forever and ever and hoping like, you know, you can do some negotiations.

>> And I think it's really important. Okay, bigger audience now. So, we're not picking on Joe. We feel bad for Joe. But what can we learn from Joe? There's two really key lessons for small business owners, soloreneurs. Key that you catch this. Number one, when you need to insure something, don't put it off.

Insure it. If you have something that is insurable, I'm not talking some scam.

I'm talking like >> you've got a warehouse and you have product, you need to insure yourself

because these kind of things happen and it can rock your world and poor Joe's dealing with it. Second lesson, and we teach this in Entree Leadership, which is our business division here at Ramsey Solutions, >> retained earnings in your business. I don't care what you're selling. Always make sure in those early days that you adopt this principle and you stay with it. That when you make any profit that there is a percentage of that that goes to a good old-fashioned savings account.

We call it retained earnings, but it's just a savings account. >> And you should have an emergency fund for your business just like we teach.

That's right. For your personal life and I think he's done that to some degree. Thankfully, he has some cash. Oh, yeah.

No debt, of course. >> And you know that too, right? So the idea of what you do in your personal life to be wise with money, stay debtree, have savings that applies to you business owners. You don't get a pass on common sense. And so move at the

speed of cash with your businesses. It creates zero risk and a lot of peace.

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All

right, Susan is up next in Las Vegas.

Susan, how can we help you today?

>> Hi. Yes. Um, I have been married for six

years um to my husband. when we got

married, um he wanted me to sign a a

last minute prenup um day before we were going to go get married. Um nothing was written up, but I so I didn't agree to sign anything because he wanted me to just sign a blank piece of paper and and

have him and his attorney was going to write up whatever he told him to. And I

said, "Well, that's we've never even discussed finances in our year of dating, so I'm not comfortable doing that." Good for you. >> Good for you. I've never even heard of such a crazy request.

>> Uh well, yeah. So, the day before we were leaving to go out of state to go get married, he he said, "Well, I want you to come down to the attorneys and blah blah blah." Anyway, I just said, "Well, he's" And then he said, "Well, don't you trust me?" And I said, "This is ridiculous." I said, "We've never even talked about >> about finances." And when we were dating, he was throwing money around like he had all this money, but I didn't know what he had or didn't have.

>> Sure. Anyway, so anyway, fast forward. I

didn't sign it. I'm like, I'm not signing a blank piece of paper. That's ridiculous.

And so anyway, so fast forward 6 years.

Finances, finances have always been kept a secret. He gives me a small allowance.

He puts in a joint checking account to

cover, you know, whatever small things on the side. He pays the main bills. Um, you know, I pay the groceries and other small things. But anyway, so now he fast

forward, he wants a divorce because I've finally put my foot down and said, "I'm not going to live in secret anymore. You either become transparent because as far

as I can tell from how he's acting, um, he's put his

one business, I think it's like going in

the hole cuz he's an accountant >> and he went from having a dozen employees to having two." And anyway, I think he's just lost a lot of money. So, he started another driving business on the side and he started that a year and a half ago and he went into a ton of debt for that.

Um, >> so Susan, this is really bad and I am so sorry you're going through this. What specifically would you like us to weigh in on today? >> Well, I'm just wondering with with all this debt, I'm like, what am I responsible for? And and is he really in

debt or is he not in I mean I don't really know >> what's what's his reasoning when you when you push him to the point that he said I'm going to divorce you.

>> When you push him on I want transparency. I want to see everything.

What's his response? Is it it's none of your business? Is it >> Yes. Like >> Yes. He just I just said I need to know what's going on.

>> Like where where are we and how can I help and what's going on? And he just says I'm not telling you. It's none of your business. >> Yeah. This is an overlord, not a husband. He's acting like some, you know, crazy maniacal >> overlord. Uh, I think, let's answer your question as technically as we can, Rachel. If your name's not on it.

>> Yeah. The debt. You're not going to be responsible. >> Then you're not responsible for it. So, but that doesn't really help you with your problem is that you don't know what he's done. You don't know what he's put in your name. Do you guys have a mortgage?

>> We We have a mortgage. So, right after we got married, he had the house appraised. Um, >> are you on the mortgage?

>> No. >> Your name's not on the mortgage?

>> Only his is. >> No. >> So, he bought the home um about a year

before we got >> Great about a year and a half. Great news for you. >> Great news for you. >> So, then we got married and then a couple months later he he decides doesn't even tell me that he's talking to the bank about refinancing.

So, the morning of I said, "Where are you going?" He goes, "I'm going down to the bank. I'm refinancing the house." And I said, "Oh, well that would have been a good thing to know." And anyway, so he just goes down and does it. And I'm like, "Well, wait a minute. We haven't even discussed.

Do we want to put it on 20 or 30 or what what's the plan?

>> Nothing. >> Okay. Which means you Okay. So that is that's hard because any any equity that's built into this thing.

>> Yeah. either you you you don't have you don't have which is a negative but also if he is underwater a hundred grand in

business loans and he has to file bankruptcy they're going to take the house and and use the equity and that to I mean you know what I mean like that gets >> yeah our hope is that your name's not on any of his debt but to Rachel's point you're not going to benefit >> from anything >> from the house yeah you yeah I mean Susan the way he's talking to you with money >> that this doesn't like your marriage overall he engages.

in everything healing in all areas of life I think not just money is what this sounds like >> and if he doesn't do that which he probably won't then you have to make a decision Susan on how you want the rest of your life to be and we never are pro- divorce right like I never want it to get to this point but I also want you to protect yourself in a situation like this where the allow like all of it like

this is it it is the most controlled financial situation on his benefit and not yours and that's unfair.

>> Well, and that's what he's told, you know, I was trying to fix it and go to the the counselor and stuff and and he just told the counselor, he just said, "I set things up the way I wanted it.

This is the way it's going to be." >> Okay. >> So, so then you >> you have grounds here. Um, we're not recommending divorce, but this is a marriage that's non-existent. It's only on paper, >> and who knows what else he's hidden from you. So, yeah, I mean, I don't I don't know how forthcoming he's going to be in divorce proceedings, but he won't have much choice when you start getting down to it. So, at this point, >> it's like you have to take your losses.

And you called asking, "What do I do about debt that's in my name?" If it's in your name, you're going to have to walk our process of the baby steps out.

And it's a baby step one, baby step two.

is you start over. But the the reality is you don't know >> build any credit. >> What's that? >> Don't you build any credit after you're married? Any equity that is built

>> but it's not in your name. >> After you're married, >> it's not in your name. >> It's not your name. >> Yeah. Here's the real answer, Susan.

>> But in our state law, it does say that any equity that's built >> from a marital perspective.

>> Well, again, that's where you need a divorce lawyer. A good one, >> right? We don't know. But but I'm saying though, Susan, if he goes but if he goes and tries to get any any assets that he can to avoid a bankruptcy or something, you know what I mean? Like he's going to be finding >> right >> anything which sc which scares me that that there's be nothing for you. Um >> well I know that's what I'm like I'm going to >> Are you working right now?

>> No. >> Okay. Do you'all have kids? Do you have kids? >> I went to school. No, I went to school

>> um for this last year. I just I just finished and I have $2,500 in in school loans that I have to start paying back in. >> What What did you go to school for?

>> Um master esthetician. I have a cosmetology life. >> Great. Can you go get Can you go get a job in the next week or two as an esthetician or doing makeovers at Nordstrom or something like that?

>> Uh >> yes. >> I don't know. I mean go to a >> It was kind of a trick question. The answer to to my question is yes.

>> No, I can't go make enough money in the next month to support myself. That's the answer. >> Well, no. Okay, but that's the wrong But you got the wrong mindset.

I didn't say to be able to make all that up. You're You have to now go get a job like Rachel said because you have to assume that you're not going to get any money out of this and you need a job because you're going to need to go rent an apartment or go find another divorced lady who needs a roommate. >> This is your reality right now. And I I hate that I'm telling you this, but >> it's that or if you choose to stay in the marriage, you guys have No, no.

>> Yeah. So, go get a full-time job.

>> He because you don't even know. I He could take everything tomorrow, you know. Um I know.

>> So, how old are you?

>> 59. >> 59. Okay. Do you have any retirement anything in your name?

No. >> No. Okay. >> Okay. But >> urgency. >> Yeah. >> It's the word. So, >> I'm proud of you for going back to school, though. That's absolutely. Seriously, you're making some right the right steps. >> Yeah. >> But there's some >> Well, I just kept seeing this coming and I I'm like, >> I've got to have some some more something. >> Yeah. >> As a foundation to be able to earn some money. And I'm just like I'm I'm this like what you're saying. I'm scared that I'm going to be left with nothing.

>> Yeah. But here's the deal. Here's the good news. You have a very good skill

and you can work and make enough money as an aesthetician. You can. So now you

must. >> But what do I do in the meantime if I don't have any access to funds?

>> You open up your own bank account.

You're a grown woman. Your money goes into your >> target for now if you need to, you know, go work somewhere and and you start your own financial life. >> Yeah. Today

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All right, folks. We wish that we could get to every call and question here on the show, but it's just not possible.

So, if you have a money question you want an answer for your situation, you can now go to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool

that's built and trained on the proven Ramsey principles. You get the answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. So, you can ask your question today at ramseyolutions.com.

And uh the ask Ramsey is right there.

You can't miss it or you can click on the link uh in our show notes. Let's go

to Steve in Hartford, Connecticut.

Steve, how can we help today?

>> Hey, so my situation is basically I'm in

a pretty toxic relationship, not abusive, you know, but definitely needs to end. And I've been working on saving for a house and it's been more pressing lately that I move out due to the nature of the relationship. So, I found a home

and it's within my budget. I'm working with a Ramy agent. I have no debt, but the home needs pretty significant repairs, and I legitimately cannot find another one. It's a, you know, it's a seemingly good value in the property, but it does need repair. So, I don't

know what to do, uh, and how to move forward.

>> Yeah. Um my caution always when someone goes and buys a home in an urgent situation. It's

not always um it's not always the best

purchasing mindset to be in if you will, right? So like if you had called and >> said you had been looking for a while and you find this and you really love it and like there's some more, you know, I don't know that there's one situation I may say yes. I'm a little concerned that because you're running from a situation urgently to get out of, which I that's great. >> It's not really urgent.

>> Yeah. >> For what it's worth, it's been prayed through and thought through for years and I'm just now have the ability. So, I don't know what the right move is. >> Well, my actual question is you said I have some concerns. I'd love to know what your most pressing concerns are about this move.

>> Uh, it definitely needs new electric.

The entire home, it's very old. So, I'm looking at 10 to 12K for that.

>> Uh, it needs a new roof within the next several years. It needs a new porch. So, those two things combined are probably another 30 or so. Uh,

it really looks like it needs about 50 to 70,000 worth of work within a about a 7year 5 to sevenyear span. Now, I can

handle it. That's the thing is I can actually handle it, but I wanted to truly, you know, make a 20-year mortgage

work. I I couldn't get a 15, but I wanted I couldn't afford the 15, but I could make a 20-year work. And I wanted to make that work, but in my head now, like I do need to leave the relationship. And I I'm not I don't actually qualify for an apartment. I can get a house, but I can't get an apartment because I have no credit because I do what Dave Ramsey says.

>> And yeah, we have a lot of Dave Ramsey listeners who can get into an apartment.

>> So, >> I understand. and I'm in the low 600s and everywhere around me needs a 640, but I did qualify for a mortgage with about 6%.

>> Well, again, I'm going to challenge you that there's a way this is this is again, you go in and you get past the policy and you go talk to a person and you go, here's why my credit score is what it is. Let me show you my entire financial life. Like, if you sit down with a a manager of a place like that, I think there's a way. Where there's a will, there's a way.

But let's go back to this. the house itself.

if this is the right house. Uh, and I

also wonder, back to Rachel's point, I'll bet you there's some elderly folks who have a room over a garage be happy to take your money as you're in a transition. This just doesn't seem on the evidence that you've given me like this is a really solid decision. And I don't think you think it's solid either.

And that's why you called. So I would not do it for those reasons.

>> Okay. >> It's an old dilapidated house. It's going to have way more problems than you've just identified. You're moving into this house only because you think you can't get an apartment. And what you've done is you've narrowed your choices falsely >> to this. And yet your gut and your brain and heart are going, "This is probably not a good idea. Why don't you call two strangers and get their take?" That's that's where I'm at. So that >> strangers Now we're friends. Yes, Steve.

>> I'm not your I'm not I'm not Steve's friend. The point stands. I appreciate the respect that you called us, but we're completely objective and I'm telling you it's screaming bad decision.

>> I would rather see you say yes, I have

three homes I've been looking at and out of the three, this is probably the best deal. Maybe more work and all of it, but I have I have multiple options. Uh or I have an apartment that I you know what I'm saying? Like whenever there's only a one solution to a problem, that's usually when people make bad financial decisions.

I'm not saying specifically this is a bad decision, but all the circumstances around it give us some red flags from what we've seen. Um, and again, you said it's not urgent, but you're like, I need to leave this relationship and I can't live in an apartment. So, it does feel like you say it's not, but it does feel like it's become the only solution right now for you.

>> Absolutely. >> Yes. So, that's what we don't like. like I'd rather you again have option A, B,

and C. And you may hate B and C, but at least there's other ways out um that you

can figure out that you know, it's not just the one. So, I would run the numbers. Usually homes like this, as you probably know, Steve, you're a smart guy. Like, it's you know, it's always more expensive than what you think. There's always more issues than what you think. And um and if you choose to walk into that, which a lot of people do cuz they just they'll have the fixer upper and that's what they know and they're comfortable with it, that's fine, right?

And if you have the money for it and that's what you want to do. It's just all the data points around it. Give us

hesitation and pause. Um yeah, so I

would call on a few more apartments, Steve. Honestly, like we we did that a few years ago. I mean, it's here in Nashville. It's not in Hartford, Connecticut. And there were like I don't know 15 apartment complexes that were called and I think I don't know maybe five of them said no but more than half said yes that you don't have to cry if you have first month's rent last month's rent all of it like you're going to be able to find a place this this house is not the only is not the only option.

>> Those policies are designed obviously to be a uh filter for people that have made bad financial decisions because they don't want to rent a place that somebody's not going to pay. But you have a very different narrative I'm sure and you can prove it. So, you got to go sit down and prove it to somebody and go, "Let me tell you why I've got this score which flagged me." I think that's far more doable than you think.

>> Yeah. A home purchase you do not want to rush into. And >> it's certainly not an old >> and justify it. Do you know what I'm saying?

Like, oh, it's going to be fine. It's going to be, you know, >> at the end of the day, you're like, is it though? Like, is it really the best option right now? >> Yeah.

And here's what I know about really old houses, cuz I have a friend, you and I have a mutual friend. I will not say their name, and they have a very, very nice old house >> in this area. >> It's almost like a landmark. And I swear to you, every time I talk to him, he gripes about all the things he's doing to that dag on house.

>> Yeah, it's a lot. >> So, it's it my point is is it's more than the porch and the roof and and it's just a mess. Electrical. It is.

>> So, that's why we're staying away from it. Let's go to Andrew in Phoenix, Arizona. Andrew, how can we help?

>> Hey, my friends. Appreciate you taking the call. My uh daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the end of October of last year.

>> U because we're getting out of debt. We had the $1,000 in the emergency savings, but we blew through that in about two days. >> Um and so my question is, we've we had

great friends who stepped in and helped us.

>> And um everybody listening who knows type one knows that it's not the same as type two. So type one's a little bit more involved. >> And um >> one of my best friend's daughters just recover that. >> So it's a lot.

>> Yeah, it's still it's a lot. >> Yeah, there's a lot. And um >> she's we've recovered from that initial we've we've been able to put 2,000 back in the bank. My wife started about seven scing funds just to kind of get our money in order.

the savings?

I'm sorry. >> It's okay. It's still It's still a lot.

Four months later. Um, >> totally understand. >> She's 11 years old. Honestly, of the We have four kids. Of the four. We're glad it was her cuz she's like, "I'm an independent woman. I will handle this. This is my responsibility." >> Real quick. We're We're uh >> Yeah, I know. I >> No, no, no, no. What I'm saying is is we're going to we're going to hold you over, okay? So that you can get a chance to gather yourself. Uh this is heavy stuff, man. So, no apologies. I got three kiddos.

>> Uh we get it. Rachel's got three. It's a lot. >> Well, one of my one of my best one Yes.

One of my best friends cuz we're heading into break, but her daughter was It was last December uhos every It was horrible. Horrible. And it's been a full year >> and it is it is so much Andrew like what? Like it's it is a lot. So the scariness and the and the tears and fear that is that is real. But from the financial perspective, hold on the line.

We're going to get back. We're coming back to you >> to talk through how you guys can get an order financially as you're in baby step two.

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All right. So, we're going to uh get back uh to Andrew in Phoenix, Arizona.

Dad, whose heart is really, really heavy. 11-year-old daughter uh diagnosed with uh type 1 diabetes. And so, we're

going to dive into the money question that we've got here. So, Andrew, coming back to you. Hope you had a chance to catch your breath. You're such a good dad. Yeah. >> Uh let's walk through your your money question for us.

So basically we, you know, we're taught to have the thousand in the bank while you're getting out of debt. And but because of her illness, it's um we have

uh good Samaritan health insurance, so we're self-pay. But they've now put my my daughter as it's a terminal illness.

And so we only have health insurance for this situation for like I think another 30 days. Um and then they won't really cover any of her medication because of the type of plan that we have. And so we're looking at other health insurance options. Um, and so I'm not really

worried about that. I'm worried about in the event that she has an emergency and I have to take her to the hospital and there or I have to go see a specialist and there's money that's demanded up front on top of a house issue or something like that happening. And believe me, when she got diagnosed in that first week, my other daughter got hurt. We did have a house issue and this is how we blew through our $1,000 within 5 days.

But again, we had amazing friends who stepped in and helped us.

while we're still trying to pay off debt? Um, or should we or is that do you guys feel like no, that 2,000's okay?

Keep tackling your debt. We are cash flowing our medication. We are cash flowing her insulin. We are cash flowing her Dexcom patches. We are doing that.

>> Okay. How much how much do you make a month and how much is going towards medical expenses each month?

Um I I bring home after taxes and paying

ties and offering I bring home about 72.

Okay. >> And about uh that you know so then um

with uh with the medical expenses we're spending about $600 or $700 a month.

>> Okay. >> Um so but she's we're hoping the next

few months that she will get approved to get an insulin pump. That's going to be $5,000. that only lasts three or four years plus the insulin that goes with that obviously. Yeah.

>> Um so these are things that we're looking for. We don't want our kids to feel like they're being punished because of this. So we're we're taking care of them at the same time, you know, with with the things that they're trying to do. We're not trying to take them out of what they're doing with their extracurricular activities and we're able to we're not going further into debt with them doing their things.

We are cash flowing everything. But again, I just wonder because of the type of >> Yeah. And I >> she has should there be more? Should we put more away?

number eventually. I think four months in you're probably not able to do that because you're because there's so many things in the air right now with is she going to get the, you know, the pump? How much is insurance going to cost? Are we able to get more insurance, new insurance? Like there's a lot floating around right now. And because of how new

this all is, yes, I'm good with a bigger buffer right now just to have some breathing room for you guys to make sure that she's taken care of, right? Our families are the number one priority.

Getting out of debt's amazing and we love that, >> but we want to we want, you know, when there's medical stuff like we say pause, like take care of your family, but also this is going to be an ongoing for the rest of her life, right? Like she will she will have this. So, I do want you to get to a place though where you can say, "Okay, here is a regular number that we're comfortable in monthtomonth.

>> Uh, we have a we have two credit cards um that have medical debt on. My wife had the bad COVID a couple years and we're still paying on that. Um, and uh

and another >> How much is all of it?

>> With the car and the two credit cards, we're right at 34,000. 34,000. My wife has this on track within the next 14 months, 16 months to have that paid off.

>> Amazing. And that's with >> my wife is amazing. She's figuring My wife is phenomenal. >> That's awesome. >> By the way, you can speed that process up at any time. It's just going to require more time of you to work, sell some things. You know, this is you can be more aggressive on that time.

>> Oh, I know. I know that. But at the same time, I don't want to My family needs me present. I work I'm a mechanic by trade.

I'm a mechanic by trade. And so I work hard and >> you're a good dad, Andrew. Y'all's life.

Your life just got turned upside down.

Yes. And we get these calls, you know, whether it's, >> you know, spouses that got diagnosed with cancer. I mean, like this is this is the stuff that happens in life. And this is one of the reasons why getting your finances in order is such a gift to your family.

So everything that y'all did up until this point of getting out of debt um was a blessing, right? You don't have what you had before this because you guys have been paying it off, which is amazing.

and then I think there is a point that we you got to press play again on life and on this plan um so that you guys don't have to stress about it right so again give yourself some grace give yourself some time everything's okay in on the money side um but I would you and your wife sit down and just say okay once we get the insurance figured out check uh

the insulin pump I know is a that's a big deal that's like a that's a huge check mark for them So that check that off and then kind of just I always like to look at the months and just say okay it's February if I you know by by

June or July we want all of this figured out and then we're going to press play and get intense again and then by next April we're going to be debtree you know whatever it is. So have some grace, but also be still looking out there to say when can we press play back on this Gazelle intensity, but we want to have some some stleness in her life and you

guys as a family. >> Yeah, thank you for the call, Andrew.

You guys are going to make it. You're doing a great job. >> All right, let's go to Sam in Lafayette, Louisiana. Sam, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thank you so much for uh for taking my call. Um you guys have just changed uh my life and my my wife's life for the better. Um so I I really do appreciate y'all taking my calls. >> Thank you. >> Um so uh you know we uh I understand uh

Dave's traditional advice uh as it relates to student loans. So my my question is a student loan question. Um so I'm a physician um and I've I have a lot of kids and I've often wondered if my kids want to pursue medicine. um is

it reasonable to suggest that they do

take out loans for medical school um but to live small after they finish and to pay these loans off very aggressively like I did. Um my my reasoning for this

and and something I kind of grapple with because we're we're very davish about a lot of things. Um but uh you know I really do feel like medical training is definitely a young person's game. Um you know plenty of sleepless nights, 80hour work weeks. Um, and it's it's very difficult for a college grad, um, you know, with really no skills to save, you know, what what can't be $200,000 for medical school.

Um, you know, that's just tuition for housing and food. Um, and in your early 20s, you're often, you know, married and starting families, too.

Do you know right now if Ken Coleman and I said, "Gosh, Sam, you're so right. We didn't even think about medical. You should get student loans." Dave and Cabo

would be turning over right now.

>> I know. >> We will never ever say >> I was trying to catch up on the day when Dave wasn't on the studio, but >> Yeah. Well, I don't think you understand how our employment must work. Um, so

here's a couple real questions. How old are the kids?

>> Uh, well, I have seven kids. My oldest is 11. Okay. So, um, how much money do

you make as a doctor?

>> Uh, about 550 to 600,000.

>> Okay. And what baby step are you on?

>> Uh, we have no debt. Just paying off the house at this point.

>> Okay. So, how much are you putting away each month for all 11 of these kids? I mean, excuse me, uh, five kids. How How much are you putting away? >> Seven. Um, >> seven. >> Seven. So I yeah it's a I uh I intend to

you know fund their uh undergraduate education. Um but when it comes to medical school or professional school I just have no intention of it. I think that would be pretty detrimental to our overall financial health and and family outlook. >> Okay. Well so there's so there's the answer to your question like you paying

cash for it is detrimental to you but you're willing to because you did it uh that you think they can do it. And I just I just think this is the wrong question. First of all, your oldest is 11. We have no idea what medical school is going to look like. And honestly, things are changing so rapidly. Then then why don't you invest in their why don't you invest in their med school?

>> And this doesn't even make sense. I'm going to stop myself because here's the deal. You don't know what they're going to do. So you're asking a question about kids. Do you have no idea if they're going to go into medicine? >> You make a million dollars every two years. safe for your kid if they want to go to medical school. >> Oh, you're not going to ruin all I was going to say. Oh, yeah.

>> If my kids decide if my kids decide to not go to college, I'd be, you know, I mean, sure, you know, I just want them to live a virtuous life. My question is not necessarily for me. It's just that broad traditional student.

>> Yeah, there's ways we have we have talked to people that have gotten medical degrees because they've done they've done different, you know, programs and situations. It happens. But no, we're not taking out loans. We'll never ever say to take out student loans.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman.

Glad you're with us today. The phone number is88255225.

Dylan is joining us now in Lincoln, Nebraska. Dylan, how can we help?

>> Hi, I am in

$90,000 of student loan debt, not

including a mortgage, and me and my fiance are living paycheck to paycheck.

And I'm wondering how we can further our

further our life without living like that.

>> Is it 90,000 combined, Dylan, you and your girlfriend, or just yours, your debt? >> Uh, just mine. She was a luckily a good

enough athlete to where she didn't have to pay for college. >> Okay. So yours is 90,000 and it's all student loans.

>> Yep. >> Okay. And how much are you making a year?

>> I make 55 before taxes roughly 40 after.

>> Okay. And how much is she making a year?

>> She makes about 30 before taxes.

>> Okay. What does she do for a living?

She is a receptionist at a vet veterinarian client. >> Okay. Yep. And what do you do?

>> Uh I work in low voltage.

>> Okay. >> So cameras and whatnot.

>> Okay. Um and you guys are engaged. Is that what you said? >> Yes. >> Great. When's the wedding?

>> August. >> August. So exciting. Okay. So, I would

um I would say first and foremost, I would not combine your wedding until August. It's not that far away, but um

just as kind of a rule of thumb. I don't want her paying on your student loans right now until you guys are officially married. And then once you are, you guys need to be Yeah, you guys are going to combine your money and look to say, okay, if we, you know, we're we have a, you know, $85,000 income before taxes,

household, and what does our life need

to look like to live within these means?

Do we need to be renting somewhere cheaper? Do we need to be taking on or finding more work? Um, you know, she probably has the most um opportunity, I

would say. I mean, she's making 30. She There's probably other opportunities out there for her to be >> What is her field?

>> Uh, she is a psych degree, psychology degree. >> Well, that's just her degree. What field does she want to be in?

>> Uh, she likes the well, she likes a veterinarian field and she wants to further pursue that and go back to school for that, but at the moment, it's not in our budget. >> Obviously not. So, what can she what is she doing now to make 30 grand?

She is just a receptionist, a front desk gal at a vet clinic.

>> Okay. Well, so since being a vet and going to school and vet school is insane from everything I've heard as far as cost. Um, let's go get a better paying

job or let's go get a second job and let's tackle this debt. You guys are double income, about ready to be double income, no kids. This is the moment to get after. She's a former athlete if I heard this right. So, let's set some goals in place. She knows goals >> and let's look at how do we increase her income from 30 to 50, >> okay? Whether that's through two jobs or a better primary job. She's got a psych degree. Let's just see what's out there.

Like, this is the moment where you all are like all in on ideiating. Let's get out there and let's make more money cuz you guys can do this. If you take Rachel's advice and you go all in after you combine incomes, uh you guys can knock this out and not be paycheck to paycheck. But cutting it cutting cost and raising income is how you do this.

>> Okay. >> How much is your how much is your rent right now?

>> Well, our we don't own the house and our

mortgage is 1,400 a month.

>> You do own it or you don't?

>> We do. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, you have a house together and it's 1,400 a month. Okay.

Which, yeah, isn't >> isn't terrible. And then where where else is your money going?

>> Um, so we got the mortgage and then it's an older house. So, especially now in the winter times, it the electrical bill

and gas bill kind of skyrockets because

like I said, it's an older house. We're working on redoing it slowly because of

financials, but >> Okay. Well, so how much is the heat a month? Let's just What What's the number? How much you pay?

>> Uh gas is around like 250 a month.

>> Okay. >> In the in the colder months.

>> Okay. And what else? What else? I'm doing a rough budget for you and I got 3,400 left out of your monthly income.

What where else is it going?

>> And then I have 750 in student loans.

>> Yep. >> And then electrical is around 200 to 250

depending on the month. In the summers, it's a little bit more, but not much.

>> Okay.

>> And other than that, groceries.

And we just got done paying off a couple

pet bills, >> okay? >> Because we have a dog.

>> Okay. So, yeah. I I I I want you guys to do a written budget because I'm sitting I'm just doing rough math. It's not I'm not saying that this is exactly what everything is, >> but you you should have around two grandish left. 1,800, two grand, and I'm

like, where is that? And it's probably

eating out and some Target runs or whatever. It's life. I understand stuff.

Yeah. >> Um, but I I think if you guys do a written budget, you're going to feel like you got a raise. >> I And I mean a strict budget, like we're shopping at Aldi, we're not going out to eat, like we're doing we're doing nothing. And we're doing food for >> it's just the two of you for 400 a month, which can be done, you know, like.

Mhm. >> So, so I I I think it is a level for you guys of of actually living on a plan and being pretty frugal until this 90 grand is paid off >> and and working extra. >> Yeah. And pausing pausing the little housing projects if it's not an emergency and it's a $250 little thing we'd like to fix.

Nope. We're not doing that. We signed up to live in an old house.

So, that means we're camping a little bit, right? You know, it's again emergency common sense here. But other than that, >> you know, if this floorboard caks and it's going to cost $300 to fix, sorry, the floorboard's going to creek.

>> So, it is Rachel's right. And I just want to throw that in there because >> you need the right mindset in order to adopt what she's talking about, which is a strict budget. So, you go, what does strict mean? >> And strict means the four walls, Rachel.

>> Yeah. >> And explain that. You know, I'll give it to you back. Give it back to you. But I think that that's what they've got to have. It's like we are saying there are certain things that we are not going to spend money on and simplifying so that we can be super strict. >> Yeah, that's right. And if she ups her income, Dylan, and you guys get an extra

gosh 1,500, two grand a month just from a salary job, like >> game changer. >> That's that's huge. You know what I mean? So um so yeah, it is it is hard.

How old are you guys?

>> Uh we're both 23.

>> Okay. So there is a hard reality too, Dylan, um, of coming out of college,

getting your first jobs, which are always entry level, you're starting at the bottom, and seeing how expensive life is. Like life is not as, you know, you look at your parents and say, "Oh my gosh, look at like the life they're living or people 15 years older than me." There's a reality of starting off and >> y'all are feeling that. You know what I mean? So there's there's something really beautiful about it.

I think there's something that um creates in you all some really good habits to tighten up, but it's a little bit of you kind of get hit in the face with reality that it's not an Instagram world when you actually got to make the money and you actually see after you pay taxes and insurance and everything.

>> Yeah. Everybody wants to own a home and I'm like, you should probably enjoy renting and let the supervisor take care of all your problems for 2 years cuz as soon as you own a home, you got problems. And I and I'm not in any way knocking the dream of a of a home.

>> Sure. >> But it's not all it's cracked up to be, okay? I mean, I could you could talk me into going right now in some apartment where I don't have to do anything.

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All right, Adam is up next in Seattle, Washington. Adam, how can we help?

>> Hi, Ken. Hi, Rachel. Um, hey, so admittedly, um, I've been kind of Daveish for seven years. Um, but two

days ago, I became debtree. Um, congratulations. >> Congratulations.

>> Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Um, my fiance, the woman of my dreams, and I just got engaged uh this past August. Um, and she also started law

school about 5 hours away. Um, and uh is

taking some student loans for that and starting to accumulate some more debt.

Um, so we're kind of considering a couple things. uh one kind of as independent um and we're not married yet. Should I just start building my emergency fund and saving for a wedding?

Um or should we maybe rush the

engagement uh maybe a lope to a small wedding and start cash flowing law school? >> That one. >> Well, I was going to say >> he gave me >> whichever one you want. It's more there's not a right or wrong necessarily. >> Did I say one was right or one was wrong? He called the show. He gave us two scenarios and I voted.

>> And Ken said, >> "Well, maybe I can throw in something else then. I'm not super fulfilled with

my current job in the place I'm working at. Not necessarily um what I'm doing.

>> I'm even more concrete now on this decision. >> Okay, we'll keep going. So, what do you think?" >> Yeah. Sorry. And then living 5 hours away. So, like I we I commute over

almost every weekend uh to spend time with her. Um, but if I keep my current job, we could cash flow everything, but maybe not live with each other for the next two years.

>> Okay, that's absurd.

>> Wait, wait. When's the wedding? >> Well, he doesn't know. That was part of the question. >> Oh, yeah. The alop. >> He's like, do we save up and do the wedding? And I know you love a good wedding. Or do I alope? So, so I got

more questions. I was having a little bit of fun. >> Yeah. No, it was great >> with the certainty of it. But, but okay.

So, let's go back to if I stay in my job that I'm not fulfilled in, I can cash flow the law school, but we can't actually live in the same city. Did I hear that correctly? >> You heard that correctly. >> Well, that's a terrible idea. >> Yeah, that Yeah. >> So, the question is, uh, can you start

to look in the area where she is, and is that where you two would like to start your life, where she currently is? That would be the first question.

Yeah, we've kind of agreed that's not necessarily where we want to spend any time after she finishes school.

>> And it's going to take her what, two years from now?

>> Uh, yeah, about two. So, May of 2028, it will be the graduation target.

>> When what can you find a job where she is where she's going to law school? Do you have a job that's pretty easy to to kind of transfer and get and make similar types of similar type of money that you are now? >> I I would probably I would probably take around a 10% pay cut to live at like in that side of the state. Okay. Okay. Um, but I could probably find something similar. >> And how much would it be? How much would you be making? >> Uh, probably closer to 89 to 90,000

instead of like 100 to 105.

>> What What is she doing now?

>> She is a part-time um for a law firm, a

family law firm. Um, and she is doing like legal intake and processes for them. Um, and while she's in school.

>> So, she has exact she has started law school. >> Yes. And is that is that helping pay for hers at all what she's doing now?

>> Yeah, it's it helps uh basically cover the cost of living. She got a really good scholarship that's non-conditional, which is awesome. Um and so like the out-ofpocket cost for tuition uh is like

13ish,000 a semester.

>> That's not bad. That's not bad for law school. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think you move to her temporarily. Oh, Rachel has wrote it down. She has a plan. It's right here.

This is what I would do, Adam. Okay.

I would plan for a December wedding. You got 10 months. Okay. >> Okay.

>> Um, if you can make similar money, I'm leaving. I'm going to go next to the fiance. I'm, you know what I mean? So, I would go rent.

You go rent an apartment that you both like and say, "Okay, this is probably we're going to live for 2 years." You stay there, stay at the new apartment, and you start working at them. You start saving, saving, saving, saving, saving. Spend a little bit of money and have a little wedding. It doesn't have to be big or wonderful or fancy.

>> But I' I'd move on this if that's if you guys are really going to get married, get married. I don't like this two-year.

>> Yeah, but you push you pushed him out to December. I like your plan. You go faster some I just have a December wedding and I like December weddings, so that's what I would have. >> This is why I do what I do on this show because >> I am agnostic about weddings.

I'm very public about this lately. It's come up a lot on shows. I'm very strong position that no guy ever wants to go to a wedding. It's only their wives.

So, what are we doing? We're spending money on something that quite frankly we could just do very intimate, small group of people, take some really nice pictures, skip the shrimp, >> whatever.

a job first in this other place.

>> Get Yeah. And then when I got the job and somewhere around the same week that I started the new job, we would go uh get a pastor or a justice of the peace, do a small little ceremony, get married, combine finances, move forward, do and then and then eventually >> do a really amazing honeymoon to celebrate it. But I understand what I'm

saying does not play well with women.

>> I I understand. >> Oh, it's half of the equation. So I I

understand that what >> she's also someone that just chose to go to law school and there's a little bit of like a hey I kind of chose this so then this over there is going to have to give right >> tradeoffs. >> Yeah it's fair. >> What do you think Adam? Any Did we cover everything?

>> Yeah. No, I think you covered everything quite a bit. Um I I appreciate all of that. Um and I think it gives me some real clarity on finding a job on the on the you know other side of the state and >> what's going on.

Yeah. And just starting a new life. >> Yeah. I love that you're going to cash flow law school.

That's amazing. That will be the greatest decision that you ever make. >> How smart is she to get that job that she was getting and scholarship and all of it?

because a small wedding now costs.

>> I know it's expensive. >> It's absurd. >> When you can do the renew the vowels and have a big thing there, you know, in five years or something. I should get I should get some online license and I'll just marry people live on the show.

>> So just Pastor Ken.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I just get just get Adam and his fiance on a video call. I'll do the thing. We'll marry him. We'll do the join. It's great >> from people who want to move quickly like me. >> It's fair. >> Efficiency is the game. Hey, you know, we get fun social questions, Rachel, from time to time. So, I've picked out one for you over here. All right. You you you like the the Tik Tok, don't you?

>> Aren't you over there? I don't like the Tik Tok, the Instagram.

>> Let me see if I have one from the gram.

Uh, I don't, but I'm going to give you one from Tik Tok cuz you're you're super cool. >> They're younger than me, but go ahead.

>> This is Hayden from Tik Tok. Why do you recommend term life insurance over whole life insurance? >> Who what was his name? >> Hayden. >> Hayden. >> Yeah, he's on the talk throwing it your way.

>> I'm trying to sound cool and it occurred to me that doesn't sound cool at all.

Okay. >> Okay. basic re reasons is whole life is

significantly more experienced expensive I'm sorry than term life and with whole life insurance they're mixing why it's expensive is because you have this investment inside the insurance so always remember keep your investments and your insurance separate because when you combine them like that you get a crappy rate of return whole life insurance there's so many different names for it but there's so many hoops of um like when you die they keep a

certain amount you don't get as much I mean it's It is it's an exhausting product that actually ends up screwing the consumer in the long run where you could have had which you should term life insurance if someone is dependent upon your income that's significantly cheaper and then whatever you would have paid for the whole life just invest that and you will come out so ahead. We did that on the show. We did this on the show. It was maybe last week.

>> Someone had a whole life policy that like their grandparent opened for them when they were like seven years old.

They were 40some and they were going to cash it out and there was only I want to say like 90 grand in there after all of that when we said if they had paid >> and we had did the investments it would have been it was like over it was over a million dollars >> make you sick your stomach. >> It's unbelievable what you are missing out when you are using your insurance as an investment. Don't do that. And that's what whole life does.

So it's usually your it's usually a family a young family member selling it to. They come out of school. >> Don't get tied in. Don't get tempted by whole life.

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>> Today's question comes from Steve in Minnesota. My cousin is a home builder and needs $150,000 to fund his business.

He asked me to loan him $75,000 and my

brother to loan the other $75,000. He says that he has all of his assets in property that hasn't sold. I'm concerned he's overleveraged and won't be able to pay it back. Should I do it because he's

family?

Um, I mean, my short answer is no. I

wouldn't be loaning money to family regardless. If you have the 75,000 in cash and you want to give it as a gift to help the old cousin out, you're welcome to do that. I probably wouldn't.

So, I wouldn't because it's a loan and I wouldn't because of the assumption that just because it's family, you're supposed to help all the time. No. Um, but if you if you guys are really close and you're like, "Hey, I don't know.

This is Steve. What do you think Steve's cousin's name is? What would you guess?

>> Steve from Minnesota. So, I feel like I need to go with a strong Minnesota Midwest name. I'm going to go Owen.

>> Oh, wow. Okay. So, Owen, >> maybe. >> Yeah. So, if you love Owen or Ben and you and Owen are Oh my gosh. My friend Ben is from Minnesota. >> Oh, that's right.

>> Okay. But yeah, if you and Owen are like brothers, you're really cousins and you're like And he's Listen, I'm I'm not giving you a situation. Steve's a millionaire and Steve's like, "Poor Owen and Betsy, his wife. They need help.

>> Steve is not and we're gonna help him." >> Then you can you can give and if that's what you choose to do. >> Sure. >> But that's probably not the situation.

>> There's a reason why he's asking for 150,000 from you and his brother. I know. >> And goodness gracious, you've got to trust your gut on these things.

>> Yeah. >> If somebody presents like that every time, he answered his own question. Just a little object lesson really quick. We'll go right back to the phone, but this you need to hear this folks, okay?

If you ask somebody this question or you say, "I'm concerned he is overleveraged and won't be able to pay it back. Should I do it because he's family?

>> He's probably over the leading sentence.

I'm concerned he's overleveraged and won't be able to pay it back." Ding, ding, ding. There's your answer.

>> I think sometimes he >> follow your concern. >> Need someone else to say no.

>> We really should say, would you like to hate this guy >> in the future? cuz you're going to hate him when he doesn't pay you back. >> Terrible. The whole loaning money to family, y'all. It don't do it. It ruins

the relationship. Do not do it.

>> Oh, such a hard pass. >> So, Steve, no. Unless you're I don't care what his name is.

>> Christina is up next in West Palm Beach, Florida. Christina, how can we help?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. >> Sure. >> Um, I'm going to try to be straight to the point. Um, uh, I'm 56 and my husband is 57. Uh we make about $200 to $250,000

a year and we have a net worth of $3 million. Um that $3 million net worth is

made up of our primary residence which is worth about $2.2 million and we have no mortgage on it. We also own an investment property that's a townhouse in in the same area where we live that's worth about 350 and we have a $200,000 mortgage on it. So, of our $3 million in net worth, 2,350 is equity and property

that is unrealized because it's it's sitting there um as it is. Um in our

retirement account, we have about uh $500,000. We have well over six months of living expenses, so about $150,000.

Um and that makes up where we get to the $3 million. So, here's my question. My

question is in about seven to eight years, we're going to probably want to retire. will be around 65. If we sell our primary house right now, it's worth 2.2 million. We, as I said, we have no

debt on it. So, we would get the 2.2 minus real estate commissions, minus taxes, capital gains, and all of that.

Um, and then in 7 to 8 years, that that

the money that's left over about 1.9 million based on, you know, investing conservatively like you guys have talked about and putting into a good solid mutual fund, that 1.9 could be really worth close to like 3.8. 8 somewhere in that range. So then when we're retiring now we're upwards of 3.8 and of course over the next seven to eight years we're not going to retire. I work from home so I can I can be mobile. Um my husband has

a small business that he would sell. It gives us a different chapter in our life that we're ready to start. We think but we're nervous which is why we're calling you. >> Um as a matter of fact I'm calling you.

My husband has no idea but we're calling you. And um because we you know we don't

it seems like so so we would be working for the next 5 to seven eight years.

Yeah. So we'd still be dumping money into retirement. We would still be putting money away. >> Christina, if you just let me ask you this. Let's pretend for a second. You sold the investment property. Okay, just go with me. You'll net out about 150,000. Add that to your 500,000. So you're at $650,000 in retirement right now. You're not going to stop working.

How much could you guys be putting away in retirement for the next five years?

How much extra do you think there'll be in there?

>> We we could probably put away now that our our home is paid off and if you were to sell the investment property, which really isn't an expense to us, probably $50,000 a year, we could probably put away into retirement. >> So, another comfortably.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, with that, with the money doubling every every seven years, we'll kind of shorten it to five years just for the math sake. you probably would have around 1.5 million without selling the home. Okay.

If you run that out through retirement, my question to you is, and you may want to sit down with the Smart Investor Pro to like look at all these numbers more specifically, but would that be enough for you guys?

>> Because how much do you live on a year?

>> About $200,000 a year that we live on.

>> So you you live on basically everything you make. You make 200.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, we make 200. I'm sorry. No, we live well below our means. We probably live on about uh about 95 to 100,000. We put the rest into retirement and things paying down mortgages and things like that over the years. Yeah. Probably closer to 100.

>> Yeah. So, I I would run those numbers out and just see um what it looks like because ideally you're not you don't want to touch the nest egg, but you would be you'd be hitting it pretty close. You'd be squeaking by at 1.5. And to that end, I just I'm wondering, have you guys discussed staying in this house long term, even as you are aging? Do you want to stay in your current home that's paid for, or is that at some point we're going to downsize or relocate?

>> So, our home is a very small home. It's a two-bedroom, one bath. Our home is not worth the money. It's worth the the 2.2 is the dirt. >> So, we live in an area where people are coming down and knocking down the old homes and building big huge houses.

>> So, for us, is it a house that we want to stay in? It's We're getting to an age where we want to be in a community, not a downtown area where, you know, there's a lot of Airbnbs and people coming and going and people staying for two months out of the year and then leaving. >> Yeah. >> One of our We'd like to be in a community where it's people more I mean, I don't know, maybe. >> Do you have a community in mind? Yeah.

Do you have a community in mind right now that you guys see that would be fun to live in?

We uh no, but we have looked into

staying in Florida and perhaps maybe going to a different area of Florida, maybe the Tampa region or um the Jacksonville. >> Okay. Yeah. So, I would just just look go online and just look at some places, see how much those are, right? Because depending on the city in Florida, depending on the community, depending how far you are from the coast or not, like the prices are going to vary. And I

would see what could you get if you know you know you would get what 2.2. Is that what you said? And golly, a million bucks. What would that buy?

I don't know. Do you know what I mean? It could it could be an expensive area. >> It could.

So that's what I'm saying. I think it's worth the exercise >> in the chance that you might go, "Well, let's go ahead and cash out of our current home right now and we take the windfall of that and let's get that invested." To Rachel's point, I mean, I'm saying that's possible to put that money in >> and you guys live a little bit less expensive maybe in another place. Just all stuff to be thinking through. You guys aren't in bad shape, but you're not in great shape.

>> That puts you in good shape.

>> Yeah. And Christina, the good thing is too from like a mental perspective, you're, you know, it's a small house.

It's the dirt that's expensive.

>> And so there's a part that god, you get 2.2 million for not a big house. So that's not, it's not like you're going from a nice big house to a small one downsizing. You actually may get the same size house somewhere else. I know that's right.

half half the price. So So yeah, nothing's on fire. I don't think that, you know, you need to rush by any means. Um, but yeah, here in the next two years, you guys really start thinking, okay, if we take these numbers and expand it out, could we live on this and do we need to sell this?

It sounds like you want to sell. You don't want to be with next all the Airbnbs.

So I'd do it sooner than later if you guys want.

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Okay, breaking news. You know, I love to do a little breaking news every once in a while. >> Oh my gosh, I thought you were being for real. I was like, "Oh my gosh, what?" >> You just killed the fact that I'm not being for real. I'm trying to act here.

>> All the current events happening. >> You just stepped right on it. >> Do we know? Do we Did something happen?

>> Folks, you got to know this about Rachel. She's lovely. She's exactly who you think she is. She's very literal.

Like I'm being sarcastic about something I got to tell you about. >> I knew you were. I was playing a little bit, but you're like, "We got breaking news." Like, there's a lot of things happening in the news right now that we are on pins and needles. >> Well, this is breaking news, >> Ramsey style. Go >> the VIP package on the live like no one else cruise has sold out.

>> What? >> I told you it was breaking right here.

>> What's it when they when they had the newspapers back in the day?

>> Right. We need a we need a broadcast news style flashing logo that you know makes it seem even more important than it is. >> I cannot believe it. >> Well, it's going fast. So, this is a lot faster than the last one. So, that you're looking for a trend. There it is.

It's Yeah. >> So, now that means that there's the what's left. >> Yeah, >> it's a good question, Rachel. Thank you for asking. >> The preferred package for extra access, better seating, more time with Dave and the Ramsay personalities for those of you that care about that. So, if you're debtree, this is your chance to celebrate with us. You can secure your cabin with a $600 deposit. That's

nothing for you people that are just, you know, four, five, and six. You're just cash heavy. You just got cash. 600 bucks gets you a cabin. We're going to the Western Caribbean in March of 2027.

And uh so there you go. VIP package. Too

late. >> No, breaking news. >> Preferred package out, >> but the preferred package is still available. >> It's there. What was it called though? When the when the guys would have newspapers on the streets, I'm thinking like Titanic days. What would they yell to for you to buy the newspaper? Do you know what I mean? >> Here ye hear ye. >> Extra extra extra extra. Read all about it. I went about a hundred years earlier. I went with the hear ye here ye. That's what I said. That shows you

where my brain is at. There's people in the audience out there going, I don't know what ye means.

>> Here ye. >> It means you. But they said ye. Here ye.

Here ye. All right. William is up in Birmingham, Alabama. William, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, so I am

so much stressing about uh finances um

to the point where I have given myself um few months ago a miniature stroke. My doctor says that I probably want to see, you know, past 40 because of how much stress I'm under.

>> Good gracious. How old are you? >> And I'm 29.

>> Okay, then what what is this debt? How much debt are we talking about? that's causing you to have a stroke?

>> Uh, it's not as much as I've heard on, you know, on the show. Um, it's about 15,000 give or take.

>> Okay. I'm not a doctor. I have wanted to

play one on TV. It's never going to happen, but I do like to wear scrubs.

Okay. Long setup. I think you're going to be okay.

$15,000 feels and I'm not in any way

minimizing your feelings what's going on, but I want to give you some advice here that we're going to walk you through how to get out of this 15,000.

It is very doable and nothing that you should be dying over.

>> Yeah, but the doctor may be for real being like, well, he may be really stream maybe all. >> No, no, I believe he is, but I'm trying to say >> yes. As a financial, >> we can help you. >> Yes. William, why are you How much do you make a year?

Um roughly about 55,000 a year.

>> Okay. Whatever. Okay. What's the 15,000 in debt?

>> Uh 10,000 if it's for a car payment. Um the rest is collections.

>> Okay. What's the car worth?

>> Um I want to say it's worth 15.

>> You could sell that like that's private private sale. You could sell it for 15.

>> Mhm. >> And you owe 10 on it.

>> Great. That one's solved.

>> We can solve that. You can sell that today and sleep like a newborn baby.

>> Yeah, you're like literally >> like like in like 5 days.

>> What's the collections? Five grand of collections for what?

>> Uh credit cards, uh student loan,

and uh I believe that's it.

>> Okay. I want Rachel to walk you through what she would do if she were you with those collections.

>> Well, I would Do you have any money saved? I don't I don't have any nest eggs, emergency funds. >> Okay, so you got I'm living paycheck to paycheck. >> So, here's what I would do today. I would go find us, you know, sell the car, get a $5,000 car, be done with that. You have $5,000 in collections.

It's what, midFebruary.

I'd make it a goal by March

30th. I'm just throwing that out there.

That I would have $5,000, William, that my life depends on it because apparently it does for you. Like literally like you need to go and work >> every night till 10 pm somewhere. You need to sell everything. You need to eat

nothing but beans and rice, rice and beans, as Ramsey would say. Like do nothing for a month and a half and work

your butt off and save $5,000.

Make it make it like an extreme goal.

It's extreme, but I would do it.

>> What do you do for a living, William?

>> Um I'm retired military. Um I got up medically. Um I have two kids recently.

divorced. Um, still have custody of my kids. Um, >> so are you on full benefits? Are So, in other words, you're not pulling income from any other source.

>> Correct. >> So, so what do you Okay. So,

>> what do you do during the day? >> What could you do? Yeah. What are you doing during the day?

>> Um, I'm looking for employment. Um, I made some really bad choices um a couple years ago and um it left me in with incarceration. I'm still dealing with it um with drug court. Um hopefully I'll be

getting my charter dismissed in September when I complete the program.

Um >> I think the stress is coming from other places than $15,000 of debt, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I could tie I could tie, you know, with the employment and finances and all that tying to the bigger picture, but I think it's more of the bigger picture. But >> I agree. >> Okay. Well, that does make more sense and we we can't necessarily help with that. But I would tell you that um

>> you need to be doing something.

>> Uh it will help with all of this.

>> But this, you know, ruminating all day long, getting rejected because you're applying and you you've got the incarceration. So what I hate about the American culture is it's very hard for someone like you who didn't do anything crazy, but you should be employed. But I I know someone can employ you. And so here's your homework assignment. Where in your area are people working that have stuff on their record probably worse than you? You know what I'm talking about. >> Mhm. >> Where are they working? I can tell you where they're working. On construction sites.

Okay. In the trades. Do you have any skill set that would allow you to do some basic trade work?

>> Not trade work. I have a degree, you know, in business management, but as far as trades, construction, all that, I don't have anything in that.

>> Are you any good at it? Can you pick up a shovel? Can you work for a masonry crew and haul around bricks and make make uh brick mud all day long?

>> I think I can manage. >> Yeah, I know you can because I did it at 18 and I can barely put gas in my car at 51. So, we're talking manual labor. No

one wants to do it except the Williams of the world.

So, I'm going to go find a manual labor job >> just to get >> I was going to say I mean honestly it's less about the money. The money is going to help get you this five grand ASAP, which you need to get just to pay it off. >> But the it's the dignity piece. There's something about getting up, having a destination to go to.

>> Completing something like there's something in that, William, that that self-confidence comes back to you.

>> Yeah. But you need that 20 to $22 an hour labor job in a warehouse. Don't get locked in on my one example. I'm just trying to get you.

If I was you and I needed to do what Rachel told me to do, and she's right, by the way, I would go, "Where are the jobs that most people don't want because they're hard? They're like my good friend Mike Row calls them, dirty jobs. Go do that because they pay really well and it will help you in the short term on this money stuff." And and and then help your soul. You tell me.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm 29. >> You're 29. Okay. And you said recently divorced. Was that how recent was that?

Uh we finalized yesterday.

>> Oh >> yesesh >> man well I'm sorry that's there's you've had some yeah some challenges some uphill really hard hard things in your

story. Um but what a beautiful thing that you are still so young honestly and that you could turn your whole life around like you you know and you probably are making steps to do that now. Um but but getting some of this

accomplished and I think there is something about paying off that debt that actually again good financially obviously but there's something about that self-dignity and progress that you make in life that you're actually making positive progress towards something positive the direction's going positive positive and it's just one day at a time

making those decisions and then over the scope of a year two years three years William like you're going to be a different man you really are but you got to change and and you have to put in that effort because that's what's going to help help this whole process from the financial and the work and who you are, William. So, we're cheering for you.

We're so glad you called.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in isle8255225.

Wes is up in Los Angeles, California.

Wes, how can we help?

Hey. Uh, I was just calling. Uh, me and my wife, we make around 165 a year. We

have no debt. We have about 50k in savings. And I was just wondering if it' be dumb to uh do a nice vacation this summer and spend about 10 grand.

>> Okay. 10 grand.

Uh, and and are we cash flowing this or are we going to pull that from somewhere else? >> We are going to be cash flowing it.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I don't I don't see any red flags here. What are you concerned about?

>> Uh well, I mean, we still owe on the house, so you know, I I we could white knuckle it.

And I mean, I we we project to pay off the house in about eight years, and that's way faster than 30 years. So,

um >> you're doing great. >> Could throw more in retirement. I don't know. I just hear a lot of stories about people who retire and don't have enough or stuff like that. So, you think your $10,000 vacation is going to put you behind some of your key goals?

>> Well, I don't know. That's why I I I've been going back and forth about this for months. Well, but I'm I'm actually trying to dig into the source of why you would ask that question because that's we need to kind of get that up and and to the top and go, okay, let's if if you're concerned that 10,000 is extravagant based on your financial goals, then you have to play that out and go, okay, if I didn't spend any money on vacation, which I think is crazy and I would never recommend that.

Um, so what what would be the difference? So, what would be the budget conscious vacation? How much would you spend on that if you didn't spend 10?

Uh well, we've done other vacations where we've sent maybe like five or four, but uh this would be this would be a lot. So we I could do that. But also, I mean, >> well, let me play that out. >> Uh >> let me play that out. So, I'm trying to help you. >> So, let's say we say, "No, 10,000 is too much." And so, we spend five because we've done that before. So, now you've saved $5,000 to go into one of two of

those buckets, either towards the house or throw extra five grand in retirement.

When you play that out, I think that's important to go, how much impact is that really making versus I'm really winning in the baby steps. I'm going to pay my house off in eight years and it's a nice vacation that will remember the rest of our life. And oh, by the way, we're not promised tomorrow.

Now, that's where I'm coming at it. And so, I don't think it's too much, especially that you're cash flowing it.

>> Yes. >> I would 100% do it. >> Yeah. You Yes. You guys have no debt.

You have good savings. How much do you have in retirement just in general?

>> Okay. So, we both have California pensions and I also have been maxing out an IRA for the last uh year and a half and I can still I'm worth only in our 30s. So, I I'm going to continue.

>> How much do you have currently in all of your retirement accounts?

>> I don't know exact I know I have about 12,000 in my IRA that I started about a year and a half ago. And uh the California pension stuff I don't know it doesn't have a cash value the same as others do. have like you will make 85%

of said salary at the end of your job or

whatever.

>> Well, guarantees. Yeah. >> Hoping that the California pension is still around is a bit of a risk in my opinion, but but maybe that's not maybe I'm being crazy, but I mean seriously, the way that government runs.

>> What's your What does your wife say?

>> Pension. >> Uh she she doesn't care about the vacations as much as I do. I I I was just going back and forth because I'm like, how much do I really need in savings when I'm 60 versus how much did I miss on living during the time?

>> Yeah. Are you taking is it wife, kids, just you and the wife? Who who we talking about? >> Just me and the wife. Just me and the wife. >> Going where?

>> Uh Hawaii.

>> Yes, >> bro. Life is short, man. I would go to

Hawaii. Eat all the shave ice you can possibly get away with. Make memories,

man. >> What I was drinking. Go enjoy, Wes.

Don't worry. You are doing fine.

>> You're doing great. >> You guys are doing awesome. You are. >> Wow. I like these calls. Wes, you're fine. Go do it. No guilt.

>> That's it, too. It's such a scarcity mentality. But if you you got to you got to look at your facts and play everything out. Debtree, 50 grand, makes

165 a year. Like, we're all going to be okay. >> It's cash flowing. It's great. We're all going to be okay. Fantastic. I love it.

All right. Stephanie's up in Greenville, South Carolina. Stephanie, how can we help?

>> Hi. We're a military family. Uh we have one income, no debt, and we're just feeling a little bit behind on day six because of our frequent moves. And so we have a move this summer. And I was just curious if you would recommend I know you guys don't normally um renting out our current house. Um since retirement

is on the horizon,

>> renting out your what? Sorry, say that again. >> Our current the current home we live in right now before we move this summer.

So, you're talking about being a long-distance landlord, >> correct? Yes.

>> Yeah. We're not fans of that.

>> It it's it's just if you run the numbers on it, I bet you'll find that the amount

of profit after all of the expenses that you that are required to take care of this home. >> Uh if you take what I'm going to get in rent, okay, minus the mortgage minus expenses, I'll bet you're going to find it's very little profit, if any at all.

And it's a whole lot of hassle.

Right. Our our thought was that we might potentially move back to this house. Um and we have a really great interest rate. Um so I didn't know if any of those factors mattered or if you guys always recommended just selling. >> How long would it take you to get back to the next place?

>> Um somewhere between two and four years.

>> So it's a short-term deployment and there's a how much of a how much control do you have over being transferred back in? Or is this the idea that we're going to get out of the military and then settle back?

He's at 20 years right now. So retirement is very much on that.

>> Okay. I do think that changes the question a little bit if they're talking about short-term coming back.

>> Yeah. Well, um I know my my only thing

which this is >> still a headache and all the things I said are still true. >> Yeah. And this is going to be picky, but I'm I'm going to be honest, Stephanie, too. You got to remember if you have someone living in your house, maybe two or three different people on 12 month, you know, rentals and you move back in, it feels different.

there there is a a reality of people living in your home that's your home that you're going to do it. Do you know what I mean? So, >> um not that that not that that's a reason not to, but I think we paint this ideal situation and then when the rubber meets the road and we're actually walking in it dayto day, it's like, oh, it just hurts so much when you go in and the house is all banged up because of renters and you know what I mean? All the things.

>> Yeah. Okay, that actually brings up a good point. Is this house, Stephanie, that you're currently in that you would you would rent and go somewhere else and then come back? Is that a house you would stay in long term if if the move wasn't involved?

like a forever house, but we do we do like it. Um, we just like I said, we're feeling very behind on baby step six because we just haven't had a mortgage to work to pay off and we're 43. That's fine. But how much is the house worth if we were to sell it today? And how much would you make on it?

>> So we would make around somewhere around 100 110.

It's worth about 450.

>> Well, the fact that you guys would would not stay in it longer than 5 to seven years and it's for I would pro honestly Stephanie I would too.

>> If if you had said this is our dream home, that was where I was going. I would have changed my mind. I'm with Rachel. I'd sell >> pocket the 100 grand. Let it work for you. >> Yes. put the hundred grand um gosh for four years you may even just throw it in an index fund Stephanie honestly and and then when you guys are ready to buy again after and settle down um yeah

you're going you'll have a good amount in there too I mean you know >> and I also sense that he's probably going to go into a private sector job if that's the case we want to know what that is how much money he's going to make cuz that's all going to play into uh what we buy when we come back I love selling this house peace of mind extra

for cash. I like it all. You guys are not behind it all.

Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money or I'm going to get my financial act together.

But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win. And our Every Dollar app is the gamecher you need.

In 15 minutes, Every Dollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now. And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your pocket, helping you stay on track all year long. So don't just wish your money works out.

Download the Every Dollar Budget app and get started right now for free.

All right, folks. One of the best things you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro in your corner.

They're going to help advise you on the best moves to make for your situation or for your small business, especially if you've had some big life changes in the past year. Go to ramseyolutions.com/taxpro.

Ramseyolutions.com/taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsay team. All right, let's go to Bill in Detroit, Michigan. Bill, how can we help?

>> Hey, how you doing, Ken? Rachel, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. What's going on? Um, I have uh about 850,000 in my uh

401k and my other other investments and

my advisor wanted me to >> Excuse me. >> It's like good for you. Great.

>> I was like, I don't know if that's good or not. I'm 62 and I want to retire in a couple years and my advisor is wanting me to invest in an annuity.

>> Is that something I should think about?

Don't do that. >> Nope. Your advisor probably does because they make a lot of money off of annuities. Not saying that he's a bad guy, but >> yeah. No annuities. Yes. Yeah. Um, not a

great product. I mean, there's var variable and fixed >> variable. There's certain times that maybe, but that's after everything is maxed out and you have no other options for retirement because you have so much and everything else and maybe you want to do a little thing over here. Um, but no, the the short answer is no, I wouldn't. I think you you have it um in a good spot. Is are they in mutual funds within the 401k?

>> Well, I don't think I think I got to I got to pay taxes on all that stuff, I'm sure. Um I I think it's in a I got a mutual fund and a in a bank. I've got a couple of different styles, I guess. And and the ones are just through work. It's a a 401k, regular work 401k where they

match and stuff like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, I would um

Yeah. to just just to look in because retirement is coming up for you to make

sure that what everything is invested in feels like a good spread. You know, we kind of always talk about four different types of mutual funds so that you have enough d um diversification. So, there's

growth, growth and income, international and aggressive growth. So, those are kind of the four buckets that you can look at um within the mutual fund space,

which is great. Um but no, I would just keep them in mutual funds. you'll get a better rate of return, lower fees, and

um yeah, and it and it is it's just it's it's just a better way to invest your money than being stuck in an annuity.

>> Okay. Now, I shouldn't look into rolling over into a Roth or anything like that.

How some people do that. >> Okay. Well, so for the I Yeah. So, for the IRA, how much is in the IRA versus the 401k?

>> The IRA has 117,000 in it.

>> 117. Do you have cash available to pay the taxes? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I have 60,000 in my savings account, which is dumb. I know, but >> No, no, no. It's not dumb. That's like good emergency funds. >> Bill, I've never met somebody doing so good who thinks he's doing so bad.

>> Well, I'm by I'm by myself and I'm pretty scared about retiring. >> You're doing really good, Bill. Yes.

Yes. >> Well, I would look to see um Yeah. I mean the Roths conversion there is a tipping point of if you have too much and depending on tax bracket everything that it's may not be worth it but for a lot of time it is worth it um to start rolling over even if it's a little bit each year um so I would still keep some

cash on hand that's your emergency fund and you may need less than 60 I don't know but you you could use some of that I would um I would contact a smartvetor pro bill um their their advisors yeah

that recommends and they probably will not be pitching annuities and all that.

So, they'll be able just to look at your situation and really help from a strategic perspective with your money

where you are um to help kind of guide the next steps. So, I really would so check out our um a smart investor pro uh one that's in your area um because they will be able to have they have a heart of a teacher. They'll be able to sit with you and really look at this and dig into the numbers. But I'd say no to annuity and yes, probably start rolling over to a Roth, maybe cash flowing some of the taxes.

>> Yeah. And Bill, thanks for the call and Christian will help you find that information on the website where you can find some smart investor pros in your area. Not a fan of your financial advisor uh because they're selling you a bad product. And remember on this, you want to understand everything so that you're not feeling alone and scared.

and the right financial adviser, you're going to go, "Oh, I know exactly what I should do and when I should do it, why I should do it, how, and I'm calling the shots." And so, that's why we want you, that's your homework assignment. Have a couple conversations and and move to somebody that you feel really, really good with that they're teaching you, not selling you. Uh, Lucas is up next in Bangor, Maine. I think that's how you say that.

>> Hi, guys. So, me and my wife are both 22

and we have $65,000 in savings right now

and then a 3 to6 month emergency fund of

10,000.

Um, we've been kind of saving for a house as we're in an apartment right now and we were curious on what's a good

point to kind of stop aggressively saving because I'm not uh actually contributing to any retirement right now. >> Yeah, it's a great question. Um, so our rule of thumb when it comes to home buying, which you've done all the steps, which is to get out of debt, have a fully funded emergency fund, which you've done, and then save. For first-time home buyers, we save a 5% down payment.

You go as low as 5.20 is ideal, but I know that's a lot for people. Uh, but just to go ahead and get in.

down payment, when you look at the the house and how much it's going to cost, we want your payment to be no more than 25% of your take-home pay pay on a 15-year fixed rate. Okay? So, when you plug all that in, you can actually do this on um ramseolutions.com, the mortgage calculator. You can put some of these numbers in and figure out, okay, here's the the number for our home of what we can afford right now with our income and what we have saved. Uh, how much how much do you guys make a year?

>> Um, we made 115,000 last year.

>> 115.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Good for you guys. That's great.

Yeah. So, after taxes, your take-home pay, you guys are bringing in what?

Probably 9,000 a monthish.

>> It was more like And it's I have a lot

of overtime, so it varies every month.

It's usually about five to 6,000. Like

6,000 a month. >> H Did you guys get a bag a big tax return?

Are you going to >> um We ended up getting about $1,700 back

because my wife was a part-time student

for >> Sounds like a lot going to taxes. 115 and you're only Huh. Okay. Well, that is

what it is. So, yeah. So, I would be looking at what you're bringing home a month and you guys just look to see, okay, how much is a fourth of that take-home pay? That's what our mortgage payment has to be on a 15-year.

So, uh, but again, that mortgage calculator can help figure that out. And it may take a little bit of time, more time to save. I wouldn't go longer than probably two more years, Lucas, of not saving in retirement to be aggressive with this um down payment, saving for the down payment.

funding retirement. So it may slow down your savings, but you guys are 22. It's great to get in the market. Like when you are ready to get in, it's good to get in, but I don't want you to feel rushed to get in because you you guys have some time. >> Yeah. And and here's the thing. I I hear this and it's so fun to listen, you know, to young couples think about this.

there. I there is such cultural pressure

>> to get a house as soon as you possibly can because if not you're some sort of loser. >> Yeah. >> Is that still do you feel that that's still out there? I certainly believe millennials felt that.

>> Yes. I think it's le I I don't know. I could be wrong. I feel like it's less with Jin just because the market is so expensive versus >> so for them they're like it's I can't even consider. >> Yeah. It feels so big. Um but that's a

real thing. Even if you can't do it, so you're not expecting to do it, it still feels like you're behind.

>> Yes. Yes. >> And so I just want to point out because we have so this is awesome. We have so many young people coming in in the show.

Listen, it's it I it is a it is not easy

to get a house right now. You are not cuckoo. You aren't a snowflake. I feel that pain. Okay. But what I'm trying to tell you is is you aren't behind in the life category because of circumstances

outside of your control. >> Right? And so, yes, it stinks that you will have to wait longer and save more.

It does stink. I get it. But my point is, if you can just hang on >> and hopefully the the the market conditions change. >> Yes. And I'm running I just pulled up the calculator on my phone. Good. Sorry.

So, I was >> No, I knew you were This is good. >> I know. Yes. So, um but the down payment

Oh, I put 12,000. He had 65, right? Oh,

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, home value. I did this quick, but 300 to

350ish they should be able to do. So, great starter home, >> Lucas. There you go. >> Um, but yeah, but you guys look in your area, figure it out, and just take your time. No rush, Lucas. No rush.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

All

right. Every once in a while, we love to get a baby steps millionaire on the line so that you can hear their story and make the connection to how possible it actually is. This is not a myth. These folks are not unicorns. They're real.

And Stephanie's up next in Phoenix, Arizona. Stephanie, how are you?

I'm nervous, but I'm good. Hi. How are you guys? >> We're doing great. Thanks for spending time with us. We really appreciate it.

>> Oh, thank you. >> And hey, nothing to be nervous about.

We're just going to ask you simple questions and you already got the answer. So, like you're going to get an A+ already. So, >> yay. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, tell us your net worth.

>> Um, I'm approximately 1.6 million.

>> 1.6 million. And what's the mix?

Um, it's my TSP and IRA, so my

retirement. Uh, I just paid off my house

right around the new year. >> Nice.

>> And my, uh, my various, um, checking and

savings account. >> Okay. Gotcha. Very good. Uh, and what is your income?

>> Uh, currently it's about, uh, 110.

>> Okay. What do you do?

>> I'm, uh, federal law enforcement.

>> Nice. Uh, now how much of the 1.6 million did you inherit?

>> None. >> Zero. >> Uh, zero. And we always like to ask, but I'm always afraid to ask a lady's age.

But, uh, because it's for the show, I feel like I should get away with it. Uh, how old are you, Stephanie?

>> 47. >> 47. My goodness, you're young.

Wonderful. You're so young.

>> Um, >> two and a half years from retirement.

So, I'm very excited. >> Wonderful. >> How many years? >> Two and a half. >> Wow. What are you going to do after that federal retirement?

>> I have not figured out what I want to be when I grow up, but I'm sure it'll come to me. >> Well, I've got a nice little fun gift for you. It's called uh Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It's my gift to you today. It has the Get Clear Assessment in it. It'll be really fun for you.

>> Oh, thank you. >> Yeah, cuz you've got more to do and more money to make, but you're in great shape. Uh okay. Uh I assume you got your degree in some type of uh what? Law enforcement.

>> Actually, no. I I was a uh I was a young kid that had no idea what they wanted to do. So I had gone to school for my plan

was to become a lawyer.

>> So I went for uh pre-law >> and I got a degree in you government.

>> Okay. >> And then absolutely nothing with that because my current job does not require a degree. >> Yeah. Isn't that something? What was your GPA?

>> Uh I think it was around a 3.1.

>> Oh, show off. I've never never, Rachel,

I never sniffed a 3.1. Never even >> know. I don't even know what mine was, honestly. >> Really? You strike me as a 3.4 person.

>> I'm more average than that. I'm going to go 3 point 3.2. I might be Stephanie. I might be a 3.1. >> Okay. All right. Very good. >> Yeah. >> Uh, okay. And, uh, Rachel, do you want to ask any questions here? I'm just rolling through our list. >> Yeah. No, I love it. Um, Stephanie, what do you feel like was one of the things that helped you the most to build wealth to be Yeah. become a a net worth millionaire? >> Um, >> um, I think I I really did look out. I I

got a really good paying job right out of uh college and it was um completely

unexpected. But as a you know 24 year old I started a job that um I was making

decent money about 40,000 and it offered a um a a way to start my retirement

account early. So I think that's really

what it was. And I've always been a person that's really I love seeing my savings grow. So that was always kind of

a goal for me to to see the savings get larger and larger. >> Yes. Yeah. That's a a motivator. The progress. Seeing that progress constantly was so good for you. >> What would you say to people who say $110,000 is not enough to make a living,

much less be able to become a a net worth, >> pay off your house. >> Yeah. You know, it's um

it's not easy because you have to say no and you have to you have to make decisions and you have to hold off on some things that you want and maybe maybe you can't get it this month or even in 6 months, but maybe in a year if you if you just kind of wait for it. And

um so yeah, I think it's absolutely possible to live on 110,000 and actually

be able to put stuff aside. You just can't go and buy everything you want at the moment. You You have to just hold off.

>> Yes. Living below. >> See, that right there is fascinating.

And I mean, you will find one viral TikTok a month or a week or a day on somebody screaming and freaking out saying he can't make a living and cannot live comfortably on $100,000. And I think you're the the answer you gave is so real. It's just delayed gratification

and discipline is what I'm hearing.

Yeah. I mean, it's it's not that I don't want nice things or that I don't get nice things. It's just sometimes I have to take that that second to talk to myself and go, "Okay, do I need that right now? I want it, but I don't I don't even need it.

I don't even want it like right now. I can I can hold off on it so I can >> Yeah. >> I don't have to put it on a card or anything. I can I can pay cash for that." >> You know what's crazy, too?

I find as time goes on, especially six months or a year later, you don't even want the thing anymore. Like it's, you know what I mean?

want it right now and you just get it.

There is no suffering and saying no to yourself, right? That's that's become uncommon. And so the fact that you've pushed through and that you're smart about your decisions about what you're spending and I do think there's something about that motivation of of seeing money grow in savings is um

that's a re that's real, right? I mean and I absolutely >> Yeah. And it's the in my opinion it's the it's the right way to lean versus I

would rather that excite me than all this new crap I can just buy and spend all my money on. Do you know what I mean? Which feels easier almost. Yeah.

>> Um, and so keeping all of that in check

is so big.

>> Well, and I got to I got to thank Ramsay so much. I started listening to the Ramsay show in 2018, and I really had no

plan to pay off my house very early, but

that really kind of gave me the kick in the butt to to really push for it and

and start focusing on it and knocking it

out. But, uh, that's like that mindset

>> helped. So, I had the savings mindset to begin with, but actually paying off the house was was not something I was initially thinking, oh, that'll happen.

>> It's amazing. >> And you did it in 8 years from then from that point. >> And uh are you uh what what is the house

worth?

>> Uh currently the house is uh according to online, it's worth about 320.

>> Yeah. >> And I I bought it way back in uh 2007.

>> And you're 47 and you're about ready to What do you got? Two and a half years. You're going to have a really great retirement program, I'm hoping, from the government. >> Yes. Yes. I I I do I am blessed that

way. Yes. >> Fantastic. And then again, you're going to find another way to serve because you've got so much transferable skill and experience.

And that's why, by the way, I do want you to take the assessment. It's my gift to you. And as you start to read your results, it's going to give you a written purpose statement that is essentially a dream job description in the sense of I'm good at it. I enjoy it.

And it creates results I care about. Because here's the deal. Let's say that you just find something you really enjoy and you work until let's say 60.

top of all of this, Stephanie. My goodness. >> Yeah. So much. >> So I feel like you're too young to not

do something. >> Yes, it is. Now have some fun. Slow down.

Change up. You know, I get a lot of people come after me when I say things like retirement is overrated. And you know, they're missing the point, but I'm also bringing it on myself by making such a generalization. What I am saying is, listen, if you want to retire and be super active and volunteer and play shuffle board half the day, uh, go get a massage, that's fine.

I'm not saying relax. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to relax and have fun, but I'm still going to do something.

making a contribution and it mirrors work, whether or not it has a paycheck attached to it or not is not the point.

So yes, Stephanie, I I I say yes and amen to what you're saying there. And again, you're a young lady and you have a lot of time left. So, it's going to be really fun for you to be able to retire and kind of go into this next chapter like, you know, like really relaxed. And that allows you to make some really fun decisions because you have no fear.

>> Yeah. Well done, Stephanie. Way to go.

You're amazing. >> You're amazing. There she is, folks. So much. >> Stephanie, you didn't sound nervous at all.

And you did a great job. Thanks for sharing your story with us. Uh there it is. 47year-old lady, uh, making 110,000

a year, going to retire in two and a half years in a federal law enforcement job. All right. No glitz, no glam. Not a

huge amount of money. >> It's crazy. >> She's worth 1.6 and growing with a paid

for house. Folks, >> you think sometimes that we're just saying stuff to hear ourselves talk.

Stephanie is absolutely living proof.

If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else cruise is back March 14 through 21,

2027. Join the Ramsay personalities and

me as we sail to Half Moon Key, Cosml,

Jamaica, and Grand Cayman on the ultimate debt-free vacation. Cabins will

sell out just like last time. Lock in yours with a $600 deposit at ramseysolutions.com/events.

Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 43:2.

When you pass through the waters, I will be with you. And when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned. The flames will not set you ablaze. Our quote today from

Simone Biles. I'd rather regret the risk

that didn't work out than the chances I didn't take at all.

>> How about that? >> The Olympics. >> Yeah. Do you watch the Winter Olympics?

>> You know, I was out of town this week, so I haven't started. But I love I love it. I love >> Really? >> Yeah. >> More so than the summer Olympics.

>> Oh, >> I'm a summer guy. I'm picking summer Olympics. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I'm going downhill skiing, though.

>> Love watching. >> You like the downhill skiing. >> And of course the ice skating. I feel like that's >> I like the curling. Ah, >> it reminds me of botchi ball, but it's on ice. >> Yes, that's a that's a good one.

>> It's a very soothing sport to watch >> and very hard apparently, so it looks easy. >> I want to be the guy with a little >> with a broom. I think you I think you'd be very >> I think I'd be great with the broom. >> I think you would do great. >> I got to try that. Got to see if there's a local curling. >> There is in Nashville. They Yes. Yes.

And it's like a new thing. And you you do dinner. It's like a whole experience >> really. >> And then you go curling.

>> This is a new thing. Let me tell you what else is new. As we're wrapping up the show, remember that you can always ask your question at ramseyolutions.com

and get it answered the way we would answer it on the show. This is the Ask Ramsey feature at Ramseyolutions.com.

It's our own AI. It's free. So there you go. You can't get in on the phone to talk to us? No problem. Ask Ramsey's there. Check out the link in the show notes. Justin is up in Huntsville, Alabama. Justin, how can we help?

>> Hey, how are you doing? >> Well, we're doing well. And Rachel's got a topped off cup of tea. So, I mean,

things are good here in the studio.

>> Oh, yeah. Um, well, I I'm a little bit nervous. >> Well, that's why I told you about Rachel's tea. She's calm, so you you'll be calm. >> So relaxing. >> Oh, yeah. Um, >> what's your question? >> So, I'm I've moved down here recently

and um I'm at a job. I've been here since December. Um, I I've made a bundle

I'm 22 years old and I've made a bundle of of poor decisions uh financially

and I'm only about 15,000 in debt, but I

currently work a job at an electrical distributor and I make right around $16

an hour. It's like 1625 or something.

It's it's very low. Um, I left a

handyman business to move out here and

so I got an opportunity. I feel like I've been stressing financially, so I I've found an opportunity to work at a construction job. Um, making 18 an hour,

which I think could probably go up more.

Uh, he's saying he likes his employees to be 20 to 25 an hour.

>> Love that. >> But I'm struggling because I have an income problem and I want to get that resolved.

Um, but my boss where I work now has

been paying for my gas because I don't make enough to pay for my gas

with the debt that I'm in.

>> Okay. >> And I don't like I don't He bought parts

for my truck too that I I put on the truck and he doesn't know about this job

offer obviously and I don't know if it's morally or ethically right for me to take it like I owe him.

Well, if you feel like you owe him, then why don't you take this better paying job and then pay him that money back and he probably won't take it. This is a good man who knows that he can only pay you 16 an hour. Now, when you go to him,

you can say, "Hey, man. I' I've got this other opportunity and I need it and I'm so grateful for what you've done for me.

Um, but I know you can't pay me what they can pay me and I've got to take that job. I'm so grateful to you." If he gets mad about it, then you know that the gift wasn't a gift. It was just some

type of manipulation and whatever, whatever. Um, but if he's a good guy, and I suspect that he is, he's going to be like, hey, man, I totally understand.

Uh, or hey, um, I can get you to that, but it's going to be 6 months from now.

You know, it'll create a conversation, but let's just remove the moral ethical there. There's nothing immoral, nothing unethical about you taking a better paying job. that also has a ladder to

even much better pay. There's nothing wrong with that.

>> Yeah. And so one of the stipulations was

it's on a a a 1099 which I'm not used to

and I don't know that I'm ready for that. I literally have less than a dollar to my name in my bank account.

>> Let me let me let me address that issue.

Okay. You're talking about the new job would be $1099.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay, great. Here's what you would do. you would go talk to a legitimate tax pro and if you go to uh ramseyssolutions.com and just search taxpro, okay? Uh you can find local tax

pros in your area and go sit down with somebody uh or do your own research and go based on somebody who's making 18 an hour, 20 an hour, uh what's the tax rate, blah blah blah blah. This is not difficult. And then what you do is is when you get a check, it's $10.99, you're going to get the entire amount.

And so you take out a percentage of each check. You can do this. It's just you

have the mindset that if I get paid 2,000, $2,000 is not mine. It's $2,000

less. Let's take 20% is just a easy number. That money is the federal government's. They're going to ask me for it and I need to have it in savings.

It's that simple.

I just worry like I I I've never budgeted before and like I'm listing out all my stuff on Google Sheets and I just

I I stressed with with it.

>> All I'm hearing is reasons why you're

going to fail. And I don't know if you want me to just say, "Hey man, you know what? You're right, Justin. Most people would be able to do what I said, but I think you're a complete buffoon and you are incapable of doing this. You have convinced me that this advice will not work for you." But I'm not going to say that. Rachel, talk to me about budget.

>> Well, I was gonna say you're 22. You're learning adult skills, right? I mean, they don't teach they should be teaching this more. Uh, but they don't. And so, you're thrown into the real world. You're making money for the first time in your life. You made some mistakes.

Now, you're scared to death that you're you don't even want to move. It's almost paralyzed you to do anything because you don't want to keep making worse mistakes, but you don't know how to move forward. So, yeah, you you need >> I don't know how to get out of here. >> Yeah, you just need a Okay, a couple of steps. So, you need some goals, Justin.

So, my first one would be for you, which we'll get you, if you hold on the line, Christian will pick up and we'll get you a year of Every Dollar. It's our budgeting app that actually plugs in all of your entire financial picture. So, you'll do the onboarding. It takes probably 15 minutes. Plug in all your info into Every Dollar and then it has a set budget for you. It already gives you some categories. Some categories you won't need, so you can just delete them.

Then, there's going to be some you may need that's not on there, so you just add them. It's a very easy app. Attach it to your bank account, so you can connect your bank account to it. And every time you swipe your card or use Apple Pay or whatever it is, a transaction is going to drop in and you drag and drop it and you start to actually plan out and say, "Here's how much I'm spending on food before the month begins." You plan food, clothes,

gas, insurance, and you go down the line

and you say, "This is how much it takes to to live a life, right?" And you're going to do all of that minus what you make a month. And so that's the goal is to live within that income. And you're going to be able to do that very proactively. It's going to take about three months to really get it right.

So, um, so you'll start in Feb. I would start get it and start planning out March. I think my key for you would be next week. I want you to have a budget done for March.

So, you're looking ahead. Okay? You're going to have your March budget.

You're going to think, "Oh my gosh, I didn't know I spent this much year. I forgot about this bill over here. I forgot about that subscription. It's coming in. You're going have to be readjusting some stuff. April's going to get a little bit better. By May, it's really going to start working." Okay?

So, that's one goal. The second goal is I want you to get $1,000 quickly, Justin. In the next 30 days, I want you to get $1,000. So, I don't care if you do grocery delivery. I don't care if you're um doing part-time somewhere. I

don't care if you're selling stuff. I don't know what it is, but I want you to get a $1,000 as fast as possible. And if

you're doing those things, if you're planning your monthly income, you know where it's going, and you are seeing money in your account grow for the first time ever, even if it's a hundred bucks here and there, right? You're just watching it go up.

>> And then after that, it's like, okay, that's progress. You've made two huge progressions in your financial life. You have a plan for your money and you have your first savings. And then you're going to start tackling this 15,000.

What kind of debt is it?

Uh, it's mostly personal loans and and I

have probably uh let's say 9,000 in a

personal loan that I used to pay for my truck. >> Okay? >> And then about another 1,500 in credit card debt. >> Okay?

>> Um, >> so then you're going to work to pay off that 1,500 first. Okay? And if it's multiple cards, split those debts up. If it's 500 in this card, 1,000 on this, make them separate so you can attack small goals at a time.

Cut up the credit card. Be done with debt.

You're going to be fine, but you have to do these things. And we know you can.

So, we're cheering for you. We're glad you called in. Go, Justin. Go. And hey, to everybody else, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 65. Financial Stability Starts With Changing How You Think About Money | May 25, 2026


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And talking to someone can help. Go to betterhelp.com/ramsey for 10% off.

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with bestselling author, my good friend Dr.

John Deloney. And so, we'll be taking your calls about life and money. So, give us a call. The lines are open at8825-5225.

And if you can't get through, because usually they're all booked up, keep calling, keep trying. You can even leave a voicemail. Uh, but we want to get to your questions. All right, so let's head off to Denver, Colorado. Starting us off this hour is Kevin. Hi, Kevin. Welcome to the show.

>> Hello. Hello. Hello. Um, uh, I I just had a few questions. Um you see

I am um I'm in the army and um I moved

here here recently. I am married. I'm 20 years old and uh I have my own house

back where I where I moved from and I am

expecting my wife is pregnant.

>> Oh wow. and she had she had to stop working and um see before the army we we

had an income of around we br we bring home around 10,000 a month and uh I

guess we got kind of used to that. Um, I have a newer vehicle and um, and you see

now now that she she's pregnant, she actually stopped working and um, we have

to pay rent here in Denver and um, well

close to Denver and then we also have to play our mortgage and then the vehicle payments. >> Okay. So, right now I'm I'm actually

losing about $1,000 a month consistently

every single month. >> Okay. >> And I got to I got to figure out a plan.

We do have a little bit of money in the bank, but I don't quite know what my first step should be. >> Are you um where I'm at?

>> Are you currently on base somewhere?

>> Yes, I am. >> You are. Okay. How much is rent? Do they charge? I mean uh >> Well, it depends. >> They do. They do. It's a It's um $2,000

even a month >> for base rent.

>> For rent? Yeah. Yep. Yep. For base rent.

It comes out of my paycheck.

>> What's your housing stipen?

>> It's uh they give me $2,200 and I

believe $75 and they take 2,000 out for

rent. >> Can you just use that for your mortgage?

I can, but then that won't I won't I I can't I I have to find somewhere else to live here and I can't go into the barracks because I can either live in the barracks or I can get BAH, which is the the the money for housing. Yeah, I can't pay for both.

>> I missed it. Where's your Where's your house that you own?

>> Tennessee. >> Okay. You got to put that on the market today cuz you're broke. Well, >> you don't have anything. There's more.

>> There's There's no well to it, brother.

You You can't afford it.

>> Um, >> and you got to sell your cars. >> You see?

>> Well, we have we have three vehicles. We have two paid off vehicles and one um

that's not paid off. It's a uh 2021. I I

owe 30,000 on it. >> What's it worth? >> We have >> What's it worth? >> It it Kelly Blue book looks for 40,000.

>> Then sell it. Sell it today.

>> Right. And then you pocket 10,000. And are the other two cars drivable?

>> Yes, the other two cars are driveable. A little bit older. >> That's fine. Yeah. So that and then Kevin, for the home, let's just pretend John's world is reality because I think it is what he just painted you was this of selling the house. How much how much would you guys walk away with because of equity in the home in Tennessee?

>> If you were to sell it today versus what you owe, what would you walk away with?

Well, I built the home myself when I was uh 18. I started it at 18. It's a barnaminium, and the living quarters was done and all of that, but it's not fully finished. And that's that's why selling it might not be a good move because if I

did sell it, I don't I'm not even sure if I can get what I owe out of it because it's not fully finished. Because it's not finished. >> I owe 200. >> I owe I owe 212,000.

When are you going to finish it? >> My >> Well, um I was hoping to take leave in the here in the next few months and go home and finish it, but that leaves me with I have right now 30,000 in the

bank. >> Um I also have a a motorcycle that um is

paid for and it it it's worth around

10,000 as well. >> Okay. >> So I if I if theoretically if I sold that >> I might be able to come up with 45 or 50. >> Okay. So my Okay. Yeah. So, if you sell the car, you get 10,000 from that. Sell the motorcycle, 10,000. Um, you have 30,000 in the bank. Yes. That puts you at $50,000. Do you have any other consumer debt, Kevin? Any uh student

loans, credit card debt, personal loans, anything?

>> I do not know. Okay. >> Just my mortgage. >> And you guys are $1,000 in the hole every month is what you're telling me with this mortgage?

>> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. And why did your wife Why did she stop working? Was she like se severely ill from the pregnancy?

>> Well, that originally. Yes. But then we actually moved from Well, she I I she

moved from Tennessee to here in in Colorado. Okay. And um when is she job?

>> She is due in September.

>> Okay. I mean, it sounds harsh, Kevin,

but I mean, I I worked up until 38 weeks, and if she's if she's medically able to versus like on bed rest or something from like a medical perspective, she needs to be working.

She needs to be at a coffee shop. She needs to be at I don't I don't care where it is because you guys need a $1,000 a month. And she could bring that. She could bring that for for the foreseeable future until she has the baby.

And then in September, you guys got to look up and say, "Okay, we got to we got to figure out how we're going to get $1,000." cuz you can't stay in this and you can't keep grabbing from your 50,000. If you do that, it's obviously eventually it's going to be Yeah. It's going to be gone.

>> What's your mortgage payment every month?

>> It is 1,500 even.

>> Okay. I I'm I'm just telling you what I would do if I was in your seat. >> Money is just getting thrown. There's no Yeah, >> brother. you like you're in a very solvable problem. The challenge before you is and I'm use this word to be provocative, okay? But you have a fantasy about your life and it feels good to have always have this place in Tennessee that one day I'm going to dot dot dot and then one day after that I'm going to dot dot dot.

What I want to do is bring you out of that picture you've painted for yourself down the road into your current situation right now. You happen to be sitting on a couple of lottery tickets, a $10,000 one that you sell a motorcycle, a $10,000 when you sell a car and you got a new baby coming and you live on base and like if I would

take 20,000 bucks and pay somebody in Tennessee to come finish this place out and put on the market and pocket >> $200,000 in equity. It's a it's a great point, Kevin, to listen to John in that because the 18-year-old that was two years ago before you were married in the army with a baby and a baby on the way. Your life has changed, Kevin. >> And the sooner you can reach that reality, the more stability you're going to create financially in your family.

And it's not worth it. And you can always go and do something great. It's not like you can never have a far.

>> Let me just tell you, dude. I've got a place on some land in Tennessee. And actually, it's being worked on right now. Rachel Cruz's husband is working on it. Like, he's the GC on it.

>> And it's awesome. And it took me 20 years later than I thought it was going to. And let me tell you, it's it's awesome. And the best part, it's mine.

And nobody could take it from me.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something. Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

>> That's a gut punch. >> And Oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me, too. And they don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. >> That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

Up next in Indianapolis, we have Grant

on the line. Hi Grant, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, how are you? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

>> So, uh, recently I have gone to a bit of

debt because of online blackjack.

>> Oh, yeah. >> And I was curious what's the best way to go about a mindset shift and the best way to attack this debt.

>> It's a lot. That's a That's a growing um

Yeah, a growing thing that we're seeing is online gambling, whether it's sports or not. How much how much debt is it?

>> Uh it's around 13,000 in credit cards.

Okay. >> I also owe 5,000 on a car and 2,000 in a

personal loan. >> Okay. Uh are you married?

>> I am not. I am single. >> Okay. >> How old are you, brother?

>> I am 23. >> Okay. Um,

I I I don't think a mindset shift is going to help you here. Um, and I'm going to

tell you like I'm biased, okay? I'm just

watching online gambling destroy a

generation of men, especially young men.

And when I say destroy, I'm not saying that um I'm not saying that flippantly.

It's melting people. And so I

you used to have to go to Vegas to gamble. You used to have to it's it's like you can just get cocaine in your pocket now, right? And so I I would at

23 if you were my friend, if you were my son, um I would tell you to go see go to Gamblers Anonymous, go to a meeting and

start treating this as seriously as I think you should.

>> Yeah. No, definitely. I've had a lot of family and friends be there for me, but they they're not experts. They >> Yeah. >> They keep telling me the same thing.

>> Yeah. And if those closest to you love you enough to say, "Hey, you need to go see somebody or you need to go get a handle on this thing," then let them love you in that way. And um

>> we could spend a whole a whole one hour show, a whole three-hour show on the ins and outs of addiction. Just know this.

Um, I I like when I'm watching the fights with my buddies, I like I'll put five bucks on this guy. I like that.

It's fun. And when Rachel and I go to Vegas, like I like to go to blackjack tables and stuff like that. I intentionally don't have it on my phone because the folks who make those apps,

they're better than me. They just are.

And they know how to hook you. They're designed to keep you on them. They're designed to incentivize you to never put them down. And now with prop bets, man, you know this. It never ends.

Yeah. >> Right. So, all I have to say is a >> ton and until I lost it all.

>> Yeah. And you're you're up just knowing you're up against a machine that is

designed to eat your soul. And when you when you recognize that, I mean, that's one of the 12 steps. I'm powerless, right? I can't I can't defeat you. So, I

can't go to this bar anymore. The problem is the bar is in your pocket now. And so deleting all the apps today,

getting this debt squared up and then going to Gamblers Anonymous meetings and make it a regular part of your life for a season. It won't be forever, but make it a regular part of your of your life for a season and begin to answer the question, what am I trying to distract myself from? Right. Why am I not okay in my own skin? And the pathway through that is honesty and openness in front of other people. And um there's no hack around that. Right.

>> Right.

Grant, how much >> I mean? >> Um, >> sorry. >> From the just the financial side, I'm curious. How much do you make a year?

>> Uh, I make 68,000. I'm an accountant.

>> Okay. Um, and you have 5,000 on your

car. Is the personal loan was that did you take that out and use for gambling, too, or is that for something else in life? >> That was help me pay my rent this month because it got that bad. >> Okay. Gotcha. Yep. So, I'm wondering from the financial aspect, and John obviously can talk um so much about that that addiction side, which actually I kind of want to loop back to in a little bit, John, but um but for you, Grant,

what it would look like to get a handle and some quick wins financially in the in the positive realm because it's been such a negative connotation with your money with all this debt and the stress that this whole gambling world has caused. um that I'm wondering some quick wins for you financially and how that's going to I think give you some some confidence of moving at least in the right direction right some of that action um because it is you have to

change obviously and be aware and all

that with the addiction side but I also think like right some positive movements going forward so um I think getting on a

detailed budget and I think cutting some things out lifestyle-wise just to get some margin this month cuz to pay your rent, right? Um just to get your head above water, I think is going to be really good. And then start paying off some of this debt and maybe you're working extra, you're working weekends, you're working nights, but you're really shifting your energy uh towards the positive side of finances, which is actually going to look more sacrificial.

The positive brings the sacrifice, but I want that for you. I want you to get ahead of this from the financial aspect, you know, as you kind of tackle the the that emotional side of it, John, because we see this Grant, you're not alone. The

the growing from like the sports betting to the gambling, I mean, all of it, it has grown so much because of online. And what like I know there's probably not one source, but what would you say for people listening, John, that is are just like grants? Like what is that thing? Is it that yeah, you're just not comfortable in your own skin.

You're having to find excitement somewhere else. It's going sideways. like what's the >> I I think it's um and and Grant, jump in here if if any of this doesn't sound honest. Okay, it doesn't sound right to you.

But Rachel, I think we're at this weird apex of of humanity, if you will, where we don't have to solve for basic things anymore, >> and there's a sense of aliveness that has left all of our bodies, right? I hear this a lot with married couples who would classify themselves not in a great but in a fine or or good marriage and somebody has an affair. Yeah. >> And what they always come back is I felt alive again.

I felt 22 again.

Grant graduated from college got his first accounting job goes to work comes home goes to work comes home and you begin to just get that your life gets gray >> and then all of a sudden >> there's like a there's a hit over here.

>> That's right. this excitement and then so this this crossroads here of all of

us are dead in our own skin and then you throw into well I'll solve it right we don't we have an allergy to boredom we have an allergy to routine and then now we got these magic wands in our pocket man that can take us on any ride pornography um dating uh swipe rights to online

gambling and it's just it's destroying us right does that ring a bell Grant

>> no that sounds 100% I mean

I would say it started out with uh kind of what you were saying earlier. I like to throw five bucks on the sights. Like >> yeah, >> it's just something I like to do. And then >> got my first job and then we just wrapped up the busy season obviously with tax season wrapping up and it was just go to work 10 hours, come home.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then eat food, go to bed.

>> Yeah. And >> you get on that repeat cycle bring >> Yeah. >> Yeah. you're one one of the one of the paths out for you and by the way this is a nightmare. I'm not saying it's going to be easy is I want you to start being intentional about making some friends some real and I'm in my 40s and I've had

to go do this as a as a discipline. Um

I'm going to go put myself in situations where I'm going to be with other people in the real world doing real life things and not sitting around singing kumbayana coffee shop. That's what I'm talking about. But like something silly like I'm going to join a bowling league or I'm going to go do Toast Masters or I'm going to start a Saturday lawn business with a with a kind of a friend and we're going to become friends. But you got to put yourself I'm going to join a softball league.

I'm going to go to comedy club. I'm gonna do something where I have to rub shoulders and do a thing with other people because the days for you as a 23-year-old, your whole life has been curated from the time you're in kindergarten to middle school to high school and then in college you were with the people in your own major and then you graduate man.

That's right man. So, man, hey, we're going to we're going to hook you up with the Every Dollar app, and it's a budgeting tool. I think it's the best one out there, but it's a tool that you can use to get a handle on your money on on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, a monthly basis, and beyond. Um, and then, yeah, be be real brave today and make a call and go to a meeting this evening, and then get up early tomorrow and go to another meeting in the morning.

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Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it?

Well, that is normal. And you guys, normal sucks. You know, being normal in America today with your money, it's it's broke. It's paycheck to paycheck.

And we don't want that for you because you don't have to live that way. And our Every Dollar Budget app helps you find extra money every single month and build you a personal plan to beat debt and build wealth. And in just 15 minutes through some of the questions, kind of investigating your life, if you will, uh you can find thousands of hidden in hidden margin. So you will feel like you got a raise.

We are here to help expose not only your financial habits uh but also places that you can save money so that you can find margin so that you can get out of the paycheck to paycheck cycle.

live like no one else. So start every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Elizabeth in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi Elizabeth, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. How are you? >> Hi. We're doing good. How can we help today? >> So, I recently got married and um we

actually found out that we are expecting a baby at the end of December.

>> Oh, congratulations. Christmas baby.

>> But it's thrown a big wrench in things because we were on this debt payoff

journey and unfortunately now we're

going to have a lot of expenses that's going to eat up a lot of our income.

So currently, um, my husband and I make

about $170,000 combined per year, and luckily I just

landed another job, which in a few months, it's going to bump me up about $17,000 extra, which is great.

>> Mhm. >> Um, but we have about $189,000

in debt.

um about 24,000 in credit cards, about

17,000 in car loan, and about

150,000 in student loans.

>> Okay. What's your degree in?

>> I have a master's in business administration. >> Okay.

So right now, you know, on paper it looks really good that we make decent money, but our minimum debt payment and

our bills alone per month eat up about

$5,500.

>> And now, even though I'm getting this extra raise, by the end of the year, I don't have the ability to kind of stay home. So, we also have to add in um

average daycare costs per month for a newborn where I live is about $2,600 a month. >> Yeah. >> That we're going to have to add in along with other, you know, costs for the child and groceries, which then decreases our amount that we have left over per month. Y >> which usually we put towards debt. So

now it's kind of my husband and I are,

you know, in a spot where we're not really, we don't really know what to do.

We're not agreeing. It seems like a really bad time to have a baby and we just don't know what to do. >> Yeah. >> It's an awesome awesome time to have a baby. Okay.

I I'm serious. It's awesome.

>> Yeah. >> And I know it's scary. It's awesome.

Okay. >> I was going to say we don't ever stop anyone from getting married or having babies. like the the debt stuff is important. Don't get me wrong.

>> No, no, I hear you though. But you're also like, "Wow, that uh that paused the plans that we were so dead on." >> Um, okay. What was Because it sounds like you guys were on track, as you said, we were we you were in quote unquote the journey before you even found out you were pregnant. Had you guys estimated a calendar date when you would be debtree, when all $189,000

was going to be paid off? Well, my husband was using that Every Dollar app very religiously, so he's kind of he was

kind of more in tune with our debt payoff. Okay. >> Um but obviously some things came

unexpected, which you know, unfortunately, we had to put certain expenses on a credit card, which increased the balance again.

>> And sometimes it just seems we take five steps forward and then 10 steps back.

>> Let me challenge you on that. What what happened that a couple making $170,000

had to solve right away via credit card?

>> Like why did we have to put something on a credit card? >> Yeah. What happened that popped out of nowhere that that y'all had to y'all had to solve right away?

>> We had an unexpected lawyer cost for a

custody disagreement with my son and my ex-husband. >> Okay. So, how much money was that?

$4,000. >> Okay. What I would love y'all to wrap your head around is this idea that we never borrow money. Period.

>> And here's what that means for y'all.

That means you get a bill and you say, "Cool. Next month, we're not going to send any over overage to debt and we're

going to take the $5,000 extra or the 7500 extra and we're going to pay this off next month." >> Okay. But what it what like changing your psychology around it because for y'all $4,000 is not an emergency because

you can solve it next month, >> right? And you would have got a 30 days past due notice and a threat, right? And y'all would have written a check and you would have moved on with your life. But psychologically, y'all, it feels like you went a hundred steps back, >> right?

I agree. >> So saying, "I'm never going to borrow money again." It keeps you calm when the world throws stuff at you because you're like, "Well, that's not an option for us." So, y >> I can pay you 2,000 this month and I'll pay $2,000 next month and we'll be good, right? You get what I'm you get what I'm getting at?

Yeah, you can call me next month and we can have this discussion but I have no money. like I'm done. Like it was that like I know people are going to be pissed and I people are going to threaten whatever whatever but we are not >> borrowing money and so it does it forces this you need to >> slow down. >> Yes. this this kind of extreness and then what I think it does too Elizabeth in some cases forces some level of

creativity where the credit card there's no you know that's not creative it's just sitting there and you can just use it right but it's actually like oh crap well is there something we can sell could you do x y and z overtime like right it actually forces you to come up with solutions and so there's a there's a mentality there that yeah John John is spot on >> can I ask you a question Elizabeth and I want you to say no you've missed the mark completely and I'm all good Okay.

Is there any of this with the divorce from the past, quote unquote, and I'm saying this in air quotes, your student loans, and now quote unquote, you're pregnant. Are you feeling some guilt here?

>> Cuz if you are, I want you to let that go.

>> Yeah, I don't really feel guilt as much because don't get me wrong, I used to be a compulsive spender. So, I've been able to pay off like 70,000 in credit card debt over the last couple years. Oh my gosh. >> So, my husband is really kind of cuz because he is very follows Dave Ramsey to a tea, listens every day, wants to follow the steps and I'm kind of adjusting my way into this. And now

we're at this point where we were getting on a little, you know, we're going on our journey and then all of a sudden something gets thrown into it that kind of we don't really know how to navigate straight through it.

>> Yeah. and Elizabeth um to the he'll know this if he's like an avid listener because we talk about this a lot that when you are pregnant and you are specifically on baby step two you're paying off debt because if you're doing it you have $1,000 and that's it but if you are expecting a baby we call it stork mode where you do want to put cash aside to have a bigger emergency fund during this and some people have a dollar amount they go to and they go back to the baby step some people just take the whole pregnancy and just stockpile money and then when baby's here and you're good and baby's good they take all that money and throw throw it at the debt and just pay off a ton, you know, within that next month.

Um, so depending on what you guys want to do, but I will tell you, you guys need some savings though for this for this pregnancy. >> Yeah, we only have the $1,000 in our emergency fund right now. >> So, that's going to be your your goal, I think. And you guys can again, you can pick a number that you want to have.

Um, or you know, again, or you just say, "Yeah, between now and the rest of the year, we're just going to stockpile money on the side. We're good with that." And then you press play to to pay everything off.

>> Yeah. Even my husband is like, "Maybe we should sell our car. Maybe we should do this." I'm like, "Okay, let's I get some back." >> I don't think it's as dire as you think it is. Even close.

I think this was just an adjustment to your picture that y'all had. >> Yeah. But hey, if he could get 23 for the $17,000 car, sell it and go buy a 5,000. I take 17,000 away, right?

lady that's been pregnant to a lady that is pregnant, having some cash above a thousand is going to be going to bring you some peace. And then I think that's going to put you more on that journey to pay this off off and attack it. But I'm glad you guys are working together and yeah, and that you're quote unquote adjusting to the Ramsay way. I like that.

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All right, let's go to Jim in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Jim. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um, I have a uh a question for you guys. So, I've been working the baby steps. Um, I

went through a divorce about 5 years ago. I racked up some debt and I am

about a month away from being able to pay off uh the last of my consumer debt.

>> Oh, wow. Congratulations, Jim.

>> Thank you. Um, and you know, now that

the light is kind of at the end of the tunnel, um, my ex-wife just notified me that she's moving out of county. Um, it's about an hour and a half away one way. We have 5050 custody right now >> and her plan is to commute the kids back

and forth. Um, which it's not really going to work.

That's a lot of time for them to spend in a car every day. And so I've been

looking for legal advice and every attorney I talk to wants a retainer. You know, I have my $1,000 and I just don't,

you know, they're all telling me they accept credit cards. I don't know how to pay for this. I don't know how to navigate it. I don't feel like it's it's not like I'm buying a new car or something. I just don't know what to do.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I I would let them know your situation. And how long would it take you to get 5,000 bucks?

>> So, right now I I've been saving about

$1,000 a month. >> Okay.

Um >> that's been going towards your debt.

>> It's all been going towards the debt. Yeah. >> Yep. So, you have about $1,000. Okay.

How fast is she going to be doing this move? Do you know?

>> Uh yeah, it's going to be within the month. Um school is just ending. Yeah.

>> And she's also quitting her job to live

with a live-in boyfriend and requesting an increase in child support.

>> Yeah.

Um the best option I could give you is to sit down with an attorney and say kind of tell them what you're doing. um and that you're I mean literally say the words I'm use I'm paying off my debts from my last thing from my from a I'm on the Ramsey plan and most of the time

they'll roll their eyes or they'll laugh and you could say here's my payubs I will get you paid. Um but this is timesensitive. Um

but man you're I mean it I'm just telling you as a dad I would go to the ends of the earth to keep this from happening. M. >> So, I as a guy who's sitting in the Ramsay chair right here, um I wouldn't

beat you up if you went over to a credit union to pay that.

>> I can't tell anybody to borrow money, but just because it's got so many downstream consequences, but someone's trying to take your kids. Someone's trying to break the law and take your kids. Yeah. >> And there is a there is an entry fee to that >> because I know every state is different, right? But county to county, you can't do that, right? Like she is >> I mean, is she violating the divorce decree?

So, the divorce decree did say that you're we're not supposed to move out of county without notifying the other parent, which she did. Um, and it it's not so much that she's an unfit parent.

It's just that that's a huge burden to put on the kids. Uh, especially with moving one of them's in high school and the other one is starting junior high school. >> Yeah. Would you be willing to take 100% custody?

>> I would be willing. Yes.

>> Okay. >> Because I'm just wondering when you get a lawyer on your side, is there going to be something that they can do? You know what I mean? Or or like >> is it in, you know, the divorce decree that it's like, well, there's nothing there's nothing legally that you can do.

>> Yeah. >> Or is there originally we had agreed on

custody, so that part of it was was pretty amicable during the divorce, but now it just doesn't seem like a real a

real possibility with that much distance between us. >> Sure. Do you have anybody um

>> and I'm always again I I live in such a Gonzo world, brother, that the most of the people I sit down and talk to, whether in my personal life or on my show, like it's because they're in a in a tough season, something bad has happened. But man, there's the data on living boyfriends and kids is no bueno, right?

Um >> so he would have a case to fight is what you're saying. >> I would I'd fight it to the ends of the earth. Um, when you've sat down with attorneys and discussed them taking you on, have they told told you you have a shot or not? Most attorneys will be honest with you.

>> I I have been told that they they think I have a really strong case and that's immediately followed by we need 5,000 now and another 2,000 and 30 days.

>> Right. That's usually what I hear is a $5,000 retainer. Do you have a friend that can write a letter just to stop the move at this point or No.

>> Um, no. She's actually already moved

most of her stuff. Um I was sort of the last one to find out about it except I had a heads up from the kids. >> Okay. >> Um Oh. >> And so I >> Have you told her I'm going to go fight this in court?

>> I haven't. She She expressed that she wants to try to do it outside of court, but provided that she gets an increase in support. >> Yeah. But she's not I mean she's trying to hold you hostage and that's not going to fly. Yes. >> Um Yeah, she's living in a fantasy world.

Are y'all able to sit down and have coffee?

>> Um, >> actually, you know what? I wouldn't do that. I would send I would send it via email. I would keep all my communication in writing.

>> Um, but I would let her know the terms or and I would put what she has asked you for. You're trying to get a an increase in in child support for to

trade an increase in child of money for me to have time with my kids and I reject that. and you didn't give me due notice of when you were moving out and I'd like I would put all that in writing and let her know that you're contacting an attorney and to hold tight.

>> Okay. >> Um Yeah. >> Yeah. You're not crazy, brother.

>> No. And especially when it comes to our kids, it's like a child that's sick or something. You're going to do whatever you can to help your child, right? I mean, like there's >> there are those moments.

Um Yeah. So, I would say fight the fight.

legal world with fees and attorneys and so >> if she's quitting her job and ask in moving into somebody with somebody who has no rent and asking you for an increase. She doesn't have any money either, does she?

>> No, she she will have none. And she's going to be totally reliant on this guy that she's not married to. And I I wonder what happens the first time they have a fight.

>> Yeah. And it's not a stable home for your kids, of course, and you know that.

But she doesn't have $500,000 to fight you >> to keep you in court is what you mean.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. >> So, her family does have money. And I've had people tell me, "You don't need an attorney for this. You can do this on your own." And that was my plan initially, but I realize I'm so emotionally like involved in this. I just don't know >> if that's a good idea or not to try to do it on my own.

>> I I I just know too many trust pe I know too many of my personal friends who've gotten burned trying to do things on their own. And I know too many um great

attorneys who make it their life's mission to take care of people in your exact situation. someone who's getting taken advantage of and the kids are the fulcrum of that of that taking advantage and man they just make it their life's mission to make sure kids are taken care of and that's what you're trying to do here you're not I don't even hear one ounce of vindictiveness in your spirit I hear you want to take care of your kids sad >> and do you think if I mean now I'm just

I feel invested in this story do you if

you pushed her from a legal standpoint or if you chose outside legal counsel would she give you majority custody do you think to keep the kids close to their school and from a lifestyle perspective or do you think she'll fight you on that?

>> I think it's money is her motivation right now. >> Um, and I don't even want anything from

her. I just want the kids. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> But it doesn't make any sense that she's trying to bargain with her kids and try to give you more time with them, but she wants money. Like that doesn't make sense.

>> Yeah. And the kids have also expressed to her that they don't want to go there and she tells them she doesn't care.

>> Yeah. Of course. Yeah, brother. I I would um I would sit down with an attorney with with somebody that you've got some friends or colleagues that have used in the past that has a good reputation for being trustworthy.

And not just trustworthy that they're going to fight for you, but trustworthy they'll look you in the eye and say, "Hey, brother, I don't think you have a case." And the best attorneys I've ever sat down with have said, "I don't want to take your money because you're not you're not going to win here." Um and I always really appreciate that. Um, but yeah, I again I'm just telling you dad to dad and Rachel as a parent like we'd go to the ends of the earth for our kids >> for sure. And Jim, I think it's so wise on your part, so self-aware to be like, I'm so emotional right now that I don't think I could probably make great decisions.

I I need help. I need someone. >> And that's what we talk about. It's like, where can you outsource people that you trust to help you in situations financial and otherwise?

Um, Yep.

I'm assuming, by the way, I'm assuming that you're working this this Ramsay plan to a tea and that you've sold everything you can sell. Um, if I had guitars, if I had a car in the garage, if I had a writing loan, I'd sell everything I had to avoid going into debt. Um, >> but yeah, >> Jim, you're a good dad. >> You're a good man, brother. >> Yep. Uh, call us back if you need us, but we'll be praying for you guys. Um, yep. And pray that it works out for you.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting with Dr. John Deloney this hour. So give us a call at

888255225.

All right, let's go to Daniel in Los Angeles. Hi Daniel, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, how's it going? >> Hi. Doing great. How can we help today?

>> Question. Um, I'm 54, my wife's 53. Um,

need some help here. We're We want to buy a home. Um, business is bad right

now. Um, got about 31 $32,000 in debt.

Uh, income's not coming in the way it used to come in. Um, and so we're just looking for some hope. You know, being 54 and 53, um, we really want to buy a

home and be able to retire with with some wealth. And um >> what do you do for a living? >> Is really tough right now. I'm in the commercial truck business. I sell commercial trucks and right now it's it's slow. Um typically it's a very very very good business. Um talking about making over $300,000 a year.

>> But right now I'm at a about 108 um after taxes. I mean before taxes.

>> And um it's really expensive to live in

in LA, California. >> Yeah. And my my um my uh

my uh outgo on a monthly basis is about

eight grand a month. And uh >> towards what? >> It's expensive. I'm sorry.

>> What are you spending eight grand a month on?

uh car payment, uh rent, um

life insuranceances for uh being my wife, my daughter, uh car insurance, fuel, um food, um all the household

necessities. It's about equals about 8 grand a month. >> What's your total What's your total debt load?

>> Uh 3132 >> just on credit cards?

>> No, no, >> what's the car? Is it Is it 32? It's all just in car.

It's uh 28 in car and then a medical

bill. That's about $3,000 right now.

>> Okay. If you sold your car, what would you get for it? Private party.

>> I have no idea. It's a 2023 Dodge

Durango. >> Okay. >> I have no idea to be honest. I think we checked. I think I don't know to be honest with you. I've never checked. >> Okay. >> Probably you're probably upside down on it.

>> Yeah, I I think we are. And um I know things are going to turn around with commercial truck business, but um it's just bad right now, you know.

>> Yeah. Well, yeah. Let me ask you that. Is is is there talk in your industry, is there writing on the wall here, or is it just with all the stuff going on overseas and the the

every business I know is talking about how AI is going to impact them and gas prices? Is that what's is that what's contracting your business right now? >> AI doesn't AI doesn't affect us. I mean, we're, you know, we deal directly. where it's it's um I deal directly with businesses with business people. Um it's just the market right now. It's just that coming out of CO it's been really really bad. Um >> but that was that was five years ago.

>> Yeah. And that's what I mean since coming out of CO it's been really really bad. It's >> during CO it was really really really good and we just haven't been able to turn around you know. I mean >> well my customers that call me.

>> Here's my big question then. as as a 53y

old, what I don't want you doing is waking up and being 58 and saying it's going to turn around when you had a chance at 53 to sit down with your wife and say, "Hey, we have some hard choices to make. A

>> do we have to live in one of the most expensive places on the planet and not

only is expensive just to live there, but then they also take half your paycheck every month.

>> Do we want to stick in this business and keep riding it out?" 108,000. So if you're at 108 at this, you know, in the in the middle of Q2 or at the beginning of Q2, you're going to end up at 200 for the year, that's a still a great salary.

It's just an adjustment from what you were mentioning. >> No, no, it's 108. It's 108 period for the year. >> Oh, for the year.

>> Yeah. >> So you've lost twothirds of your salary.

>> What's Well, the thing is I I I moved from the old dealership I was at. I'm in a new dealership managing it. Okay. The commercial department.

And so I required them to give me a guarantee of uh $12,000 a month for the first six months. And then the remaining six months after that $6,000 a month and then you know above that my commission a percentage of what I require. >> But but but here here's here's what I'm saying. You're a good salesman and if you if you know how to be a good salesman and you know how to lead salesman, you're going to have a job anywhere.

And if you've been struggling for five years, >> I'm just telling you as a guy, you're older than me, but not by a lot.

>> The hope is decreasing. >> Yeah. It's a time to sit down and have a really hard conversation and say, "Do we want to move to Texas where we don't have any we don't have any um state income tax or we want to move to Tennessee or Nevada somewhere and we're going to >> very hard to do because we have a special needs child." >> That's what I'm asking. That's what I'm asking. >> We live with my in-laws.

>> We live with my in-laws. They raised them. My my wife when she was younger, she wasn't responsible. Didn't take care of her son. Um my in-laws are aging so

bad. They still watch him. But eventually, probably in about a year or two, they're not going to be able to watch him. So, Daniel, so I think what I think what's hard is >> what John's saying is if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting and we and you just don't want to look up >> three, four, five years down the road and you're the in the exact same position financially where you're not able to buy a home.

And so, if our goal is to get our head above water financially, if our goal is to be homeowners, if our goal is to retire with dignity, then at your age, you guys you guys got about 10 years, right? uh 10 to 15 depending on if you can work even longer to say we got to think >> about 15 >> we got to figure Okay so we got to figure this out. So if there are some non-negotiables that's fine right there's a non-negotiable we're not going to move is what I just heard you say. So, like as much as John and I would convince you to X, Y, and Z, you're like, "Nope, we're not." Okay, then what are some other negotiables?

I mean, the I tried doing Kelly Blue Book for you, Daniel, and I made me enter my email and all this stuff. I didn't know how many mileages were on your Durango. I was like, "Dad, damn it. I wish I could find the price for you." Because honestly, the last six months or so, people calling in the show, unless you rolled over negative negative equity, we actually are seeing some people are like, "No, I owe 23, but I can sell it for 30." I mean, you may be, I don't know, but look and see.

even 3,000 4,000 underwater, you can go

get a loan for 8,000 at the credit union, sell the car, go buy a $4,000 car, and get rid of $28,000 of debt.

Like, there's some moves you can make that can be very significant for you guys, Daniel. I mean, you guys are paycheck to paycheck. And a car payment freed up is what? How much do you pay on the car per month?

>> 800 bucks. Yeah. 83.

>> That's pretty uh that's pretty nice to get that back in your pocket, wouldn't you say? >> Yeah, absolutely. What?

>> And Daniel, think about this.

>> Like, I'm going to I'm going to round I'm going to round the math off. Okay.

>> Can I Can I add something? I I am

extremely good at what I do. I mean, very good. Of course. >> Um Um But right now, it's just bad.

However, and this is not It's kind of sad. I mean, obviously, we had eaten fires here a few years ago in California, and that's going to start picking up the market because of the fact that contractors start buying trucks and vans, you know, for because they're going to start rebuild. They're already rebuilding. So, >> sure, >> I know that'll affect the business in a positive way, but I'm just so

frustrated, angry.

>> Okay, you okay, but you got to act, you know? >> You got to act.

>> All right. And so like I can't I can't get I can't motivate you. You have to decide you want a different kind of life. And let let's run the math out. I'm gonna I'm gonna round the numbers off. But let's say you work for 15 more years and you make a h 100red grand. You're going to have $1.5 million.

750,000 of that's going to go to the state of California and 750 are going to be in your pocket to spend how you want to.

If that's okay with you, then so be it.

>> What are y'all going to do with that 750 50 grand? >> I don't want the I want >> I want more. Okay. And Michael Phelps is a great swimmer, but if I throw him in the middle of a raging river, it doesn't do him any good.

You can be the best person at your job, but if the market's gone, the market's gone. So take those skills and have the courage to go somewhere else. You only have hard choices ahead of you.

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>> Next up we have Cecil in Augusta. Hey

Cecil. >> Cecil.

Is it Cecil? I want to say Cecil.

I'm so sorry.

>> Yes. Hello. >> Hey. What's up, man?

>> Um, >> okay. Cecil, can I just say, can I defend myself for not reading it correctly? >> Rachel read your name as Cecilele >> because I literally was just having dinner with friends and their daughter, that is her name. And so, we were talking. So, when I saw it, I just went to there. I'm sorry. Forgive me.

>> It's cool. Ceciladel, I'm sorry. You're

a dude from Augusta. Hooked on phonics did not work. >> Talking to you. I got it. Whatever.

>> So, what's up, brother?

So, um, recently I've had a very large

string of unfortunate, um, situations.

My income has gone down drastically and my expenses have gone up drastically and

I'm just drowning and I don't know what what to do.

>> So, what happened with your income?

Um, so I did a lot of side work on the

like Door Dash gigs as well as I did a

lot of just handing help for people in

my area. And recently with the gas

prices and other things, I had to slow that down. >> Okay. And as soon as I slow that down and my income starts getting lower as well as some changes at my primary job where >> my income dropped significantly.

>> What happened there?

>> Oh, hey Cecil, can you can you speak

directly into your phone? Maybe step to where we can we can hear you a little bit better. >> Cutting out a little bit. >> Okay. Um, I had to take a class for my

work and I get a differential based on the weekends and my income went down by maybe $800 a every two weeks.

>> Did you fail the class?

>> No, I I passed the class, but the class isn't going to upgrade my income at all.

And I'm out of it now, but that led to

the downgrade >> just while you were in the class. But now you're out of the class. Can it go back up $800?

It has gone back up $800, but the rest of it has gone down. And also my car has gone out, so I can't even do the sides even a little. >> Okay. >> What do you do for a job?

>> I work as a CNA.

>> As a C >> uh like like a nursing assistant. Oh,

>> okay. Okay. >> A certified nursing assistant. Um >> my guess is >> that there's a market for that. Could you go get another job somewhere else?

Um, unfortunately not without my car.

My I have rides do my weekends because I

only need a certain amount. Um, I I

pretty much I work 17our shifts Saturday and Sunday. >> Okay. >> And then just one eight hour during the week. >> Okay. What What are you doing the rest of the week?

>> The rest of the week I am doing school work. I am in college to change my career into accounting.

Okay. How much school do you have left?

>> I just started. >> Okay. How old are you?

>> I'm 21. >> Okay. Um I don't think you can afford to

go to school.

>> I think you have to I think you have to be working 40 hours or or you go or you go at night and it takes you a little bit longer. >> Um but you got to put the you and I know you're putting the hours in on weekends, but the formula you have laid out for us. Um, and what it sounds like is without door dashing or having a side hustle, you're not able to pay your bills. Is that correct?

>> Um, I I'm able to I'm able to pay my bills, but the problem is my car my car

has gone out. >> Your car's gone out? Okay. So, >> what does that What does that mean with your car went out?

>> Uh, I I'm a mechanic also on the side

and it's something that I don't even know. Uh, it's a head gasket leak, but

there's also something else going on.

>> Have you gotten an opinion?

>> Yes, I have. I've gotten a couple. >> How much have they have they quoted you?

>> Anywhere from three grand to six?

>> Three grand to six. Okay. Okay. Um, and

and you don't have a car right now is what you're saying?

>> No. >> Okay. Um, and it's not running at all.

It's just it's done.

it it's done. I can't even take it anywhere. >> How much money do you have on the side?

If you're making all your payments and stuff, how much money do you have saved up?

>> I don't have anything saved up. I had a string of separate emergencies for healthcare. >> Okay.

>> Um Yeah. I mean, what I mean I mean at

this point it's >> it's extreme enough that I'm like, "All right. Uh, do you do you move in with family uh to save on rent? Do you do you

Uber to and from >> bring in a roommate? Uber to and from work >> from nursing. It's going to cost you your first hour of work there and your first hour of work home with that six hours in between. >> And if you're working 60 hours a week,

you know what I mean? Like you could this will shift pretty quickly. I just think you're just trying to do too many things at once and you're not able to get ahead. And so something has to give right now. So, I would do if you can do school at night. Don't go into student loan debt, though. Um, but if you're able to cash flow it through school, do it at night or press pause on accounting for now. Get your head above water. Get

an emergency fund. Get a car that is running and then out of a place of strength, make a change in a career or

to, you know, for school. Um, but it

doesn't sound like you're in a place to do that. You need to be working 60 to 70 hours. >> Yeah. >> Um, and again, Yep. If that's an Uber to and from until you till you save that, it may take you a month or two >> or to pay a co-orker five bucks to come pick you up and drop you off or whatever, pitching on gas or something.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> And Rachel, we're getting this we're getting calls a lot over the last six weeks, maybe the last three or four months, where people want a a certain thing to be and it's not.

>> Mhm. >> And I've been there myself, you've been there. I want so badly for the car just to turn on. It's not. Or I want so badly to get a degree and get out of this current job I'm in, but I can't. Or I want this, but this is reality. And I feel like so many people right now across the country are just stuck.

>> They were living such thin margins and

suddenly student loan payment kicked in or suddenly the gas prices went up just past where they could keep floating their >> exposes everything. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Um or their jobs are cutting back hours or they can't they they just got a degree and AI has taken away the first bottom layer of hiring and so they can't even get into a position.

The reality is if you're faced with what I wanted to be true isn't anymore. The longer you stay there, the more anxious

you get, the more depressed you like that's just your body trying to take care of you. >> And man, Rachel, if I could tell people one thing, it's just take action. Yeah.

just take a step in a direction towards I've got to stop going to school. I don't want to be really grieve it. Grieve it like crazy. Or I've got to take on a third job or I'm going to have to start asking people for rides and I hate asking for anything or I got to start Ubering to work.

It's going to cost me an hour and a half of my workday to get there an hour and a half to get back. Okay, that's what I've got to do right now.

delaying what is real with what's right

in front of you for I wish it was different doesn't get you anywhere closer and in fact what we're finding is it's just putting you further and further behind. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think acknowledging the outside factors are very real, right? The changing job market very real.

The housing market very real. Um you know you could plug in the gas prices, right? I mean like you can plug in external factors that are happening but John the people we see that are winning and we've we're meeting them in the lobby. We have a great we have a great audience today.

They've been sharing a little bit of their stories. You know we have a caller on the debtree stage you know doing their debtree scream like I will say the common denominator with people and it and they don't always get there the first day stuff starts happening but the common denominator of people changing their lives is realizing I'm I'm the answer. Yeah. >> External factors are going to happen.

Things are going to happen that we can't control. Right. that is we became good friends. I feel like, you know, you started hear around the pandemic like during co and I remember you would say it all the time like control what you can control and during that time was a strong message >> but it still rings true today of like things are going to happen you guys.

The external factors are real. Maybe you started out in student loan debt and the person next to you didn't because their parents paid for whatever it is, right? Things are going to happen. But it's the people that look up and say, you know what, I'm in charge of my future and I have to make decisions.

I have to choose things that I don't maybe not want to do.

I don't want to sell the car. or I don't want to, but I'm going to choose to actually do something to the action. Put it into the action and actually start to see things shift. And so, it's up to you guys.

It really is. And those are the people that win, John.

>> Get to reality as fast as you can and take action.

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All right, let's go to Gerald in New York City. Hi, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, how are you doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Uh, first of all, reality, what a concept, right? Um, >> who would have thought? >> Who would have thought we make a job out of it? >> I have a shirt I have a shirt that actually says that. Uh, >> funny. >> So, I have I'm retired, 63 still. Um,

I'm set. Uh, house is paid for, no cars

are paid for, no debt, I have a pension,

social security, my wife still works.

Uh, so our investments are, if I'm

working with Fidelity, and the broker wants us to because I I made the mistake of saying that we don't plan on touching anything for at least 10 years. and he

he thinks we should be in 100%.

And that's that's really my question is is is it wise to really at where I am in

life and I did all the right things in life and I'm okay. And uh on top of

that, I should also say this. Um so I have like 450,000 in cash and uh and he

thinks we should put you know at least 300 of that into the market as well.

Well, my my first I I'll let Rachel talk about money. My first red flag is

anytime you're talking with having a relationship with a professional, whether it's an attorney, whether it's a tax person, or whether it is a an investment professional.

You should never think I made a mistake of being honest. Like that to me is a big red flag. If you can't sit down with your investment professional and say, "Here's what I want to do and here's what I'm thinking." Of course that you pay them to give you their opinion and their perspective, but they work for you, right?

>> That's just how I'm perceiving it.

>> Okay. >> Again, reality. What a concept.

>> Yeah. Right. >> That's not reality. That's just how I'm perceiving. Well, I think I mean you've done well for yourself financially and you've done well for yourself professionally. You're still married, so I would tell you that your gut is probably a pretty good got a pretty good uh um BS meter on it. What

>> how much you how much you have with him right now? >> Yeah. >> Uh a little under 600,000.

>> Okay. And what do you what is it invested in right now?

It's I was at 6040 and I just bumped it

up because I literally just met with him and I I >> 6040 meaning what? Be be more specific when you say 6040. What what are what do you mean? >> Well, I guess so. So, uh 40 I guess more

in in the bonds and the safe things.

>> Oh, okay. Okay. And what does he have you in in stocks? Is it like index funds, ETFs? What is it?

>> Yeah. Uh more index funds. index funds.

Okay. >> It's allid it's all fidelity stuff. I'm letting them manage my money.

>> So they are definitely charging me for that. I am quite aware of that. There is >> Right. I mean I do the same thing. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, what's um when I'm running

these calculations um what's crazy is if you just left it

if you if you had transferred the four the 40%. Yes. We I would not recommend having money in bonds and sudies. I have zero dollars in bonds >> unless you're a 98-year-old and you're like it just makes me sleep better at night. I'm like that's great whatever at that point. But you're a young 63 and so I just did a quick calculation. If you had that 600,000 and you just left it alone like you said maybe use some of it but just what what it could grow to by the time in 25 years

it'll be 7.2 million if you went quote

unquote aggressive meaning it was just in the market which isn't even necessarily aggressive. you could do um more aggressive type funds, but if you are if you're just in, you know, the S&P

500 and index funds and all of that, like it's it's pretty wild where it will grow. And CDs, some of them, depending on the rate, won't even keep up with inflation. So, I'm with him. I would not do 6040. I'd do 100%. And then,

>> which is what they were saying. >> I would do that's Well, that's what I do. That's what D mean that that is >> Dave's a little bit older than you and that's how he does his. >> Yeah. I'm not telling you anything different. Um, so I would >> I'm glad Dave's not here today because I I would have been nervous talking.

>> He would have been proud of you, Gerald.

You've done so well. >> Yeah, you've done great. >> You've done so good. Okay. The the four the >> I worked my whole life, it doesn't mean I don't have uh fears.

>> No, it's fair. >> I'm scared of him, too.

>> My question is my question is Gerald, if

you if you guys don't really necessarily need to touch that money, is that because your wife still plans on working or you guys can live off of social security? I have a pension. I I have a pension and social security. I bring in 10,000 a month and then my wife is still working for at least another few years. She's bringing in 2500 a month.

>> Okay. >> Everything is paid for. Yep.

>> Um so you don't need the money is what you're saying. All the right things kind of in in life. I did most of the right

things in life. >> Yeah. It's great. I mean, I have a lot of cash and you know, I don't want to use names or anything, but you know, I heard someone say until uh, you know, our president is out of the out of the office, I would keep cash because cash is going to be king when everything drops.

You can jump in and drop it and then >> I mean, we don't have a crystal ball. We don't know. >> Nobody does. Nobody.

>> No, because it did go down after the IR and now it's back up and above what it was. So, I'm like, no. Yeah. I both >> um I think that the longevity of investing takes out these weird little dips and stuff that we get because of an administration.

I mean personally >> and I like cash. I I I have more cash than normal and it has nothing to do with anybody in office.

>> Okay. >> So Gerald, >> you got to do what you're comfortable there. I guess with that aspect.

>> Yeah. >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we have we have probably the six months or more just in the regular savings. >> Okay, Gerald. >> I have my cash is in AMX and in in the money market. >> Wait, hold on, Gerald. Let's let's let's wipe everything clean for a second.

Okay, >> if you lost all of your investments, it went to zero and you looked up and your cash went to zero.

You have a paid for house, paid for vehicles, a pension, and social security.

Yes. >> Here's what I'm telling you. Here's what I'm telling you that >> you did good.

>> You did good.

>> Okay. Here's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing a 63y old guy who is waking up every morning and saying, "What's my purpose now? What do I do?" >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Okay. And if you get up every morning and you fret over your money, you're a millionaire. >> I'm not doing that. I'm not going to do that. >> Okay. Then you're going to have to do something. You're gonna have to join a bowling league or join some weird club

in like in New York. You're gonna have to do something, right? Get a group of guys to go throw seed at pigeons. I don't know what you do in New York, but like but like listen, you got to have to get a gang. Otherwise, you're going to like your body will fall off a cliff.

And I'm being serious. >> No, you're right. I work out every day.

>> I know, but you work out alone. You work out alone. >> I want You got to get >> Well, you should. If you saw my gym, you would understand why >> because I have a gym at the house. I I am not I am we did things right. That's all I'm gonna say. >> I'm internally grateful. It's because of my beliefs and everything that just I feel that >> I know. I know. I know. But listen on this call, Gerald. You've told me I think I've done everything right enough.

That leads me to believe you're still wondering if you did everything okay. If you're if you did a good job. >> And so I'm telling you did a good job.

And I'm telling you, you've got at least 20 years left, if not 30.

And so >> they better be going for that 100% and and stop messing around. >> Well, your money, yes. But right now, you're fine financially. You're more than fine. >> If you didn't, if you do nothing, Gerald, you're fine. If you do nothing, >> you do nothing. You're good. You're good. >> I want you I want the next 30 years. I

don't want you sitting on a couch with your phone out checking internet articles and fretting over your money.

Hey, I want you out having fun.

>> Yes. And from the financial aspect, I want more bang for your buck and I think you could be making a tons more in the market. So, I would I would move that 40 over. So, if you did nothing, that's fine. But I think you could be way more efficient financially by being in there.

So, uh Yep. in the market. And then if you want to keep on to the 450, >> that's a lot. >> It's a lot. >> Maybe a quarter million you could scratch by. Right. >> That's right. >> And then go get it, gang. Go do some fun things. >> And you've done great, Gerald. We're proud of you. So good. So great.

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>> Today's question comes from Renee in Nevada. My husband has a gambling problem and has money invested in a retirement account. How can we protect that money so he can't withdraw it? He agrees with me that we have to protect this money so he cannot access it. Can we put it in my name or another kind of account? He has withdrawn around $40,000 in the last two years and there's about $85,000 left in the account. My gosh,

>> second gambling. >> People who care about people,

>> we got dude, I am as first amendment guy as they come. I am a leave me alone guy as they come. But access to gambling is

destroying families. It's just destroying teenagers. It's destroying college students. It's destroying society. We have to draw some lines there. It's just it's it's out of control, man.

>> Geez. >> And I mean, honestly, from Renee, I mean, not 401ks. I mean, they have to be in your specific name to get the tax benefit. And I mean, I guess you could talk to your if you guys have a financial advisor and have some kind of documentation that says unless but he could still log into his account. I mean I I don't know there's not a way to like I mean in a trust or a living trust or

something. I mean there could be some like legal loopholes but you can't take it out of your name. Um

>> I guess he could possibly put you could you could come up with a password on the account that he doesn't have. >> That that could be good. He could call around and get it.

>> I Rachel, I don't like um this really puts Renee in the seat as

>> Oh, that's a good Yeah. >> as the as the mom >> and putting responsibility on her >> or as the police officer. Um it it's in

many ways um gambling like so if if you

have an addiction to cocaine

>> um or to alcohol. One of the first things you do is you get rid of all the alcohol and then you have to decide, I'm not going to be in places where alcohol is, which is tough for folks going through alcohol rehab because they lose their friendship, their friends, they lose their their, you know, cheers. They were places where everybody knows her name, right? It's hard.

>> If you're struggling with disordered eating, >> it's a different thing because I have to make peace with food. I can't just cut food out. Similar with gambling.

You can delete all the apps and stuff, but you have to make peace with money because that's how the world works.

>> You still have to use it. You have to use it. You have to interact with it. Have some sort of relationship with it. And so, >> um, Renee, if it's a very short period of time and you're trying to step up while he's getting in rehab and he's getting help, good and great and grand.

Um, but if this is this is not a long-term solution for you to become the police officer of the family finances.

Um, especially Yeah. >> Well, cuz and that's I mean a little bit of the addiction world. I've heard you kind of talk about this that no one else can fix you like so you can put things in place that are wise and smart >> but hurdles but he has to be Yes. That's not going to solve right you.

>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's got to go.

If it's at this level where he is withdrawing from his account and he's looking at you saying, "I can't stop." He needs to go to an impatient facility and disconnect himself from the planet

for 30 days or 60 days or 90 days and get get the help he needs cuz this is not a long-term solution here. But short term, I mean short term, I have given the password to um >> Amazon Prime to my wife before. I gave her my debit card for a season. I just carried cash when I was out of control.

>> Um but I wasn't struggling with gambling addiction, right? I wasn't addicted to anything. I was just being a brat.

>> Oh, and you know what? It takes a level of humility because we had a call earlier in the show about this >> to admit to something, right?

>> It's the worst. >> And to go get help, but and I know you've probably seen this, John, more than me. I've had only a few people in my life do like true 12step and been in it. But there are some of the of the deepest, most wonderful people that I know that you >> that walk through recovery. >> Yeah. It changes you >> there. Like addiction and shame feed on

secrets. And the beauty of a 12step program is you walk in and you say, "My name is John and here here it all is." And you're surrounded by people who are like, "Yeah, here's us, too." And you realize they still like you and they don't kick you out >> and you realize you're not the worst thing you've ever done. It's hard. >> Uh Ian Kron, one of our friends, he wrote a book and I'm sorry, Ian, if you're listening this, I can't remember the name of it, but it was a little bit like the it >> everybody needs the 12step.

>> The 12step. Yes. And he was like, "It's those those meetings are more like church." >> Yes. >> Than some churches today.

Like most churches today. So saying all this to say, Renee, that >> your husband, if he chooses something, it just sounds intimidating when you just said like go to an outpatient. I even was like, "Okay." Yeah.

>> I don't want to say they're like better people, but it's they're a there's something different about them. >> They've had they've had to mind. And I've known folks who've gone to multiple different rehab centers. It doesn't always work the first time or the second time or the fifth time. But there's something about saying I'm worth the investment in getting Rene. I hope that

that's helpful and that encouragement to you guys and for anyone out there that's hearing this. All right, let's go to Atlanta, Georgia. And we have Amanda on the line. Hi Amanda. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> So I have a question and maybe I'm looking for a little bit validation with a decision. I am a single mom and I'm

wondering if I need life insurance to take care of my child uh if something were to happen to me. But >> the and I know the immediate answer might be yes, but my son has a trust

and then he would inherit all of my assets as well in addition to survivor benefits. >> Okay. What was the trust from?

>> His father's passing.

>> Oh, okay. Oh, I'm sorry, Amanda. Okay.

Um, >> how much is in that trust?

>> Uh, when it's all settled, it'll be about 600,000. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> How old's your son?

>> Uh, four. >> Okay. >> And then what assets do you have that he would inherit? >> About a million in property and >> property. Okay. >> And retirement. >> Okay. Um, I mean, when you look at that numbers

wise, I mean, you could pan it out and just think, okay, for his life, um,

college, living expenses,

um, to whoever's going to be taking care of him, right? I'm sure you have a will and all that in place. Um, you know, is

that enough? And I think you could you could make that decision. The reason I still lean towards having some term life

is honestly it's so inexpensive, Amanda, that it's I think it's honestly worth it

because if something were to happen to you so tragically um if you did have I

mean how much money do you make a year?

>> Um between 150 and 200.

>> Okay. So, if you had, you know, a million and a half on you or something, um, I think when you look at a policy like that, it's going to it is going to be so inexpensive. Um, that I I think I

think I would and I may just do like a 10-year term until he's 14. Um, because

again, that kind of gives you some runway. And the only reason I say that is I just reuped Winston and I both did and we're self-insured. Everything's paid off. We're baby step seven. But when we ran the numbers, I was like, it's so inexpensive that if something were to happen, it is just like it's just that extra cushion, that extra peace of mind for him. And again, you probably you don't have to do a long a long term policy. Um, and and shop it

around. If you go to Xander, uh, Xander.com, Xander Insurance, or, you know, ramiesolutions.com/zander.

Um, we've been working with them for over 30 years, and they're an insurance broker, Amanda. So they will so you type in all your info and they basically shop around all the top companies and find the competitive rates and most of them you don't even um you you don't you don't even have to do all the all the what is it like the where they check in on you and they get they do all your blood work and stuff. >> Yeah. Some of them you don't even have to do that.

that I as a mom I would sorry that's a very long answer. I just want to give you my why. Um >> here here's what I would do it Amanda.

Um, and you may have had some of this lived experience. When did your husband pass away?

>> Uh, last year. >> Oh, man. What was his name? >> Sorry. >> Uh, his name was, um, Robert.

>> Was he awesome?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, here's here's why I would I've

sat with people whose spouse has passed

away and they have quote unquote a lot of money, a lot of assets, but they have no cash and they've got real estate,

they've got trust, and they need groceries and gas or they need tuition payments or whatever. And so I like the idea of having a policy that pays out relatively quickly so that if your son is 17 and he's heading off to college, he doesn't have to worry about selling a million dollars worth of land and estate and stuff like that. He can continue on with his life and then deal with the asset um assets later. That's just that's my opinion. I would have it

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting with Dr. John Deloney and we are taking your calls. So give us a call at 888 8255225

to talk about your life and your money.

All right, let's go to Henry in Tampa, Florida. Hi Henry, welcome to the show.

>> Hey there guys. I just want to say when I was a delivery driver in the UK, I would binge listen to the Ramsey and Dr.

Deloney shows the ships fly by. I'm very happy to say longtime listener, first- time caller.

>> Thank you, Henry. Well, glad you're calling in. How can we help?

>> Okay, so I'm 25 uh and I just moved here three weeks ago uh from the UK.

>> Welcome. >> And thank you. Thank you. I just got married two weeks ago to my amazing wife. >> Awesome. Is she American too or were you guys both from you say England?

>> No, she Yeah, she's from Florida. I'm a Brit who cannot do with heat. I would not choose Florida if I had a choice.

>> Good luck. We're heading into the summer months. >> Oh, I know. I know. I'm I'm dreading it.

Um Um I'm just happy to have the air conditioning. Um so basically and um until I get my green card in what could be about 6 to 12 months, I'm not allowed to work. Uh, so after upcoming paperwork fees, I've got about $16,000 in my savings. I'm just wondering how I can spread slashinvest those savings to give me a decent amount of growth.

Um, although I'm not it's not coming from an income. >> I guess my first question is, man, I've I've heard of green cards taking a lot longer than 6 to 12 months.

Um yeah, it's um the 6 to 12 months is of course just the um estimate, but that's based on what what the processing times are right now. So it's uh it's an optimistic one, but it's uh it's what we could potentially be looking at. Yeah. >> Well, that's that's us folks. We're the optimistic bunch, right?

>> You're you're already you're already drinking the tea. I love it. Um >> and is this the only >> lot of experience with that? >> Actually, we don't drink tea. We drink coffee. So, we uh Yeah, you're drinking the coffee. >> Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that.

>> Um, okay. So, Henry, yeah, for the investment side, I mean, are you are you guys wanting to use this money? I mean, you guys are newly weds. Are you going to purchase a home?

Are you, >> you know what I mean? Are you going to use it probably in the next four to five years? >> Okay. In the in the next four to five years, yes.

Currently, we're living with uh my now in-laws, so we're in a pretty good position in uh that sense. My wife are working. Um, so that's great. And she's got savings as well.

Uh, but I'm just I'm just trying to see how to basically like uh build upon my own savings cuz I just I don't want to be leeching off my wife. I'd rather it be the other way around. >> Well, I I you you've you listen to the show along so I've got a reputation.

saying this but you've got somewhat of a pass. I mean, actually, you don't have the pass, right? But like, but I mean,

legally, you can't. Um, but my concern for you is taking six months to 12 months. I'm not worried about y'all financially. It doesn't sound like you got a place to stay. Your wife is working. I'm more worried about >> Yeah. what you're going to be doing. >> Purpose. >> Oh. Um, so when I uh do end up working,

uh, I'll be um, so next week I'm going to meet about um going to a meeting about doing volunteer work with a social media team at um, a church because I do photography, videography, and editing. So I'll just be building up my portfolio until I can work >> that. Uh, dude, you're you so glad you're here. Yes, it's awesome.

We talked to so many people who are like, I'm just stuck and I don't want to do anything. And here you like you're doing exactly >> and you have an excuse to not do anything. >> You're doing exactly the right thing.

>> Opportunity. I want my opportunities.

>> Gosh, >> it's awesome. Henry, >> just sit on the side of the road with a billboard and say you have lots of opportunities >> here. Look at me. >> I I could I'll tell you what.

I'll just I'll set the uh I'll set the billboard up because I can't deal with the Florida heat. >> In the shade of it. Yeah. >> Yeah.

So, from a an investment standpoint, Henry, honestly, because of where you guys are and the fact you're probably going to need this money, it sounds so boring, but I probably I think I just put it in a high yield savings account. >> Yeah, I would too >> because I mean, it'll grow three maybe four, probably more like 3%. 3 4%.

and you'll make a little bit off of it, right? Um, but if you invest it at this point, I'm nervous that you guys are going to need it. And >> sometimes writing out the market in less than two to three years, you don't always >> if you you know what I mean? if the timing's off, like you don't have that longevity of what of the growth in it

>> in the investment. So, um I know it sounds boring, but I think I would just set it in a high yield savings account because I think you guys you're you're so focused that I could see you guys moving forward so quickly on decisions because you're going to have the ability to and I wouldn't want it stuck in some investment and you're trying to like time the market because you know you have to get it out.

>> Okay. >> What do you what do you want to work when you get this this green card? What what job? >> A work visa. I'm I'm terrible with all this stuff. >> That's what I'm wondering. Could What do you want to do?

>> Uh just as a long-term job.

>> Yeah. >> Uh primarily work in social media. Um like I say, I do photography and videography. Um so yeah, I'm I'm going

to be working with this um this social media team at this church to basically because they're they're a little bit behind on social media. So to just get them up with uh >> Sure. >> I love that. Henry, you're an awesome guy.

And if if you're able to find even a six month or 12 month gig with somebody who will sign a work visa over for you there in Florida. Um and I imagine Florida has more experience with with work visas, but that you might find a company that will pick you up um and sponsor you until you get your green card. So it's an honor to talk to you, brother. >> Well done, Henry.

All right, let's go to Raleigh, North Carolina, and we have Tyler on the line. Hi, Tyler.

>> Hi. How are y'all doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Hi. So, I ha I recently graduated from college in December and I am also new to

the Ramsay sort of baby steps program.

>> Welcome to the co graduated.

>> Yes, thank you. So, when I graduated, I graduated with student loans, car payments, all that. >> Settling up to like $105,000.

Oh. >> Um, and yes, so uh between now and then

I've got it down to $90,000 in the past four months, >> but I'm looking to see as far as my student loans go. I work for the state and so there's a public service loan forgiveness after you work state for 10 years. Um, you get all of your student loans wiped. >> So I know about the debt snowball and

targeting the smallest thing and that's definitely my biggest thing. So it'll be the last thing I target. My question would be once I get to >> No, I would not wait.

>> I wouldn't wait. >> Do not wait. >> Okay. And here's here's here's my two reasons. One, um this is this is me calling balls and strikes. The Fed has picked up the number of applications that they're processing. Right? So, there was years when I had former students who were part of the debt repayment program working with the state >> and they were it was like 1% were getting picked up and everyone else was getting rejected. They have increased that. Okay. But here's what I want you to think through. Number one, 10 years

is two elections away from now,

>> right? >> 10 years ago, would you have predicted today? No. Nobody would.

>> Right? And so, a who knows who's going

to be in office in 10 years and what program they're going to say, "I'm not I'm not honoring. I will honor who whatever." >> And Congress passes it, right? I mean, like, yes. >> Yeah. Who knows? The second one is 10

years ago, I was two states, four houses, and three careers from where I am right now.

And I would hate to have thought that I couldn't be in the seat I'm in right now because I was tied to a $90,000

federal repayment program where I worked, right? So, I want you to be in control of your life and you're crushing this debt. Just get it knocked out. And by the way, if they decide 6 months after you pay it off that they're going to wipe away every student loan in the in the country, know that you were a person of integrity.

You sign your name to a piece of paper. You said, "I'll pay you back." And you kept your word to yourself if nobody else.

And you're killing it already. $15,000 since the beginning of the year. Well done.

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All right, let's go to James in Springfield. Hi, James. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. >> Hello. Welcome. Welcome. How can we help today? >> Okay, so I have a decision on the table in front of me today and uh it is a job change situation. So, um, at my current

job, I am doing, we do okay. Uh, me and

my wife, we make about 72,000

a year. We make about$,750 an hour. We get a $1 an hour uh shift differential on the weekends. But for the last three years, we worked this job with no like we don't get any PTO, no vacation, no

benefits. It's like bare bones. actually

just implemented a sick like occurring

sick time or whatever.

>> What's the What's the job, dude?

>> Uh in home care. We do we take care of

people. >> Are you Are you all 1099?

>> No. >> You're W2 employees?

>> Yep. >> With no days off and no sick leave.

>> No, we do have We do accumulate sick days. We can accumulate up to like 56 hours, I think.

But no vacation. So there's no benefits.

This company has nothing for you guys.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And and honestly with where we're at, we live in a town of like 800 people. That it's kind of the norm here, >> which is unfortunate, but it's just how it is. >> It is. Okay. All right. How can we help today? So, I've been considering and I got a

call today and I've got a decision put on the table in front of me on whether or not I want to take this job uh working in a CNC factory for uh they do

contracts for Boeing Defense, which makes me really happy because I like stuff like that. >> Wait, CNC Factory?

>> Yeah. Yep. >> I remember CNC Music Factory. That's one of James' favorite bands. But that's not what you're talking about. >> No, no, no, no. like uh computer

parts machining. Yeah. For F-14s and stuff like that for airplanes.

>> Very different than CNC Music Factory.

Okay. All right. >> Yeah. Yeah. But um so my big question is

is like me and my wife have been working here for the last three years. It's really allowed us to like kind of get our lives together, you know, like we're we're consistently making good money. uh

you know, we homeschool our kids. So, it's kind of tough for us to both work and find something that works with our schedules and stuff like that. And going into this new job, I would take a little bit of a pay cut, like close to 50 cents an hour, but I'm also like at this job that I work now, I get overtime and stuff. And I would be not only losing all my overtime, but I'd be losing like five hours a week.

I'd be like 35 hours a week.

the change and I'd have a set schedule like at this job we don't have a set schedule. I mean I could have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday off or I could have Thursday, Friday off. I could work 12 hours, four hours a day. It just all over the place.

And so it's kind of like I guess the big benefit for me of the new job would be like consistency for my kids. You know, not having to get them up out of the house at 11:00 to do shift change. for sure.

>> Yes, exactly. >> Is there is there a pathway for getting a raise? What does that look like in this company? >> Uh, whenever I This is kind of the other

reason why I'm really on the fence about it is like anytime I try and ask about that kind of stuff, he's kind of, this guy just came in from Kansas City and bought this place and he's been like trying to get the numbers up on it. He just signed some long-term contracts with Boeing which were very promising and stuff, but whenever I talk about RA, he's kind of like, well, you know, nothing set in stone. I don't really have a >> He's got to make sure that he make that he gets his numbers up before promising anything.

Okay. >> Yeah. The business was kind of drowning when he bought it. >> Okay.

consistency standpoint. Is that what you're asking us?

>> Pretty much. Because right now me and my wife, we take home on average probably 53 to 55 depending because I get overtime and stuff.

>> Yeah. A month. >> Yep. And then how much would it how much would it be then if you took this job?

>> Probably take like a $6 to $800

decrease.

>> Okay. Um H >> is it offset by >> We're also trying to pay off a lot of like not a lot of debt. We don't have a ton of debt. >> What would it feel like >> making Yeah. I mean, could you guys live off of 4,800 a month and be okay?

>> Our gas, groceries, bills, and like

every single dollar that has to come out of our account adds up to right about 4,000.

>> Okay. >> That like it feels tight, you know?

>> Right.

Um for a And then what debt? What consumer debt do you guys have?

>> Uh we have a car loan that's about

7,000. Okay.

>> Um, we have credit card debt altogether.

We're about to pay two of them off, but that adds up to I think right around

2700 or something like that. And then um

I had some we had two vehicle incidents.

I didn't want to file insurance claims because it was minor damage. So, I did use a firm which I knew I shouldn't have, but I did it and uh fixed one of my cars. Well, both my cars with the parts and stuff from that.

So, a firm I think I have two or $3,000

probably. All in all, I think I'm under $12,000 total debt.

>> Gotcha. >> And I'm also in school right now.

>> Golly, y'all have a lot going on. >> What are you studying?

>> Uh, accounting. >> Are you cash flowing?

>> Uh, well, Pell Grant's paying for a lot of it. I'm out of pocket like $600 a year. >> Okay. Great. Yeah.

>> Um I would be okay. I mean it's 12 grand.

So I'm like if you guys and you got 900 that realistically, right, if you're going all crazy um you know and you're

only doing what you have to do, >> needs versus wants during the debt snowball. Just pretend that you could throw 900 at it. And if you worked

extra, James, which I know you would have a full work week with this, but if you went and worked weekends, could you work >> could you work for your old proper.

>> No. Okay.

>> I might be able. >> Could you do home health one or two days a week? >> Yeah, that's what I was going to say. On the weekends? >> Surely they need you.

>> Well, I mean, >> I'm just trying to see how you can make it >> possibility. >> Okay, so here's the thing. If you could find an extra 1,000 a month on top of

that 900, you guys are completely debtree by September, October.

>> Completely. Like, so so I'm like that was the plan. >> Okay, perfect. So, um, if you can find that extra thousand dollars that's that would have been there if you stayed in this job, if you could replace that with something else, I think I would be okay with the move. >> But there's a part of me that I'm like, I think you make >> you make better money at this job. And I know it makes life inconsistent, but for another six months and then take on more overtime with that job and make more.

I'm like, could you get out even faster?

>> The Yeah. Well, sorry to cut you off. Go ahead. >> No, go. Yeah, I was going to say the thing that has me pausing for you is

listening to you talk about the home health job versus talk about the CNC job. >> Your whole cadence and tone changed. You sound excited about the CNC job, >> but the other variable is you're going to school for accounting. So >> yeah, >> you're not this isn't like a career move for you where I there's been several jobs where I took a pay cut because it was going to get me where I wanted to go and every time that's worked out to my benefit, but I was going to something, not from something, right?

>> And so yeah, >> for you it sounds like you're just I mean home health will burn you out.

That's a tough tough gig, especially with a with a with a company that

doesn't seem to care much about you outside of the workplace. And so I can imagine you wanting to just stop doing that and you found the first ship out of that, you know, out of that harbor. But man, if you ride it out for a couple more years, you're going to set yourself up totally different and then go do the job you're going to college to do. You know what I mean?

That's kind of that's kind of like where I'm at is like I could take this job now. Short-term struggle, I suppose, but more of a path because like even when we got this job, they were like there's no opportunity for a raise. The only reason we got raises was because minimum wage increased in Missouri and that was >> a nightmare in and of itself.

stick it out here? I have a projected I just finished my first term of classes in like nine weeks >> because I'm doing like a self-paced >> How long till you get done school?

>> September 27th probably give or take.

>> Yeah, you're talking a year and a half I would say put. And I know that I know that's hard to hear but you're taking a pay cut for >> something that's not getting you where you want. >> 18 months of stability and you're going to throw everything back up with a with a degree in accounting.

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All right, let's go to Hillary in Fresno, California. Hi Hillary, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking the time to speak with me. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Um, okay. So, it's kind of a concept

that I would love to get your guys' opinion on. So, I started listening to you guys about a year and a half ago.

Um, and just the contentment and joy and

things that have just come from changing our mindset of not trying to keep up with the Joneses or look at what's next and all of that has just completely changed our life. And so, as my husband and I are sitting down and just planning for the future, we are trying to decide

how to help our kids basically. And I recognize they're little. we don't have to make this choice or these decisions for a long time, but you know, we're doing the 529 accounts and um we live in

California, so it's ridiculously expensive here and just imagining what house is going to cost once they're ready to buy and the thought of like, okay, well, we could start investing to have accounts set up to help them with that. But then I just think about my husband and I and we're doing pretty well and the pride that I have when I

look at us and I look at my husband and the scratching and the clawing that we did um for our careers and our finances like it was me and him and God against the world. Like we started from nothing.

>> Yes. >> And I'm just thinking like am I robbing them? Would I be robbing them of that?

Like I want my daughter to look at her husband with the pride that I look at my husband with. you know, um, but I also don't want to be like, "Okay, you're on your own kids. Figure it out in this ridiculously expensive state." So, we're just trying to get figure out how to balance that.

>> I I've I've got some opinions. What do you think, Rachel? >> Okay, quickly, two thoughts. I think regardless is if you help them with the house or not, they're going to they're going to run into some crap in their lives regardless.

It may not be financial, but they're going to run into some things. And I think if they have the character and maturity of what you're raising them to be, they're still going to be look at each other as spouses and be like, we just took on the world. And it may not be a money issue, but it could be something else. So, I think it's more the character of the person >> that's there.

Um, and then my second thing kind of along with the characters is I would pray because Winston and I have these conversations, Hillary, too, with our kids.

that we don't have to turn a switch at 18 years old to be like, "Oh crap, now you got to be responsible. You got to think about other people. You got to be generous. You got to learn that money won't make you happy. Oh, you got to learn that stuff. You know, like that switch doesn't just flip when they leave your home. It is an act of who they are.

And as parents, you walking life with them while they're under your roof. And then when you launch them into the real world, the prayer is they're not going to be perfect obviously, but the prayer is that they have a level of insight into money and contentment and hard work because you all have maybe um

manufactured some of that while they're under your roof so that they learn and understand how to handle money. Um so that if they are given some financial gift, whatever that looks like, it doesn't ruin them. It magnifies who they are. >> So those were my two thoughts that came up, but John may have others.

I love what you said and I I did everything Rachel just said. Hillary, I want you to teach them how to scratch and fight and claw and because you're right. It's kind of like you're a professional MMA fighter, right? And you and your husband and you going around and fighting all their fights for them will keep them from having broken bones and bruises, but they won't be tough when they face the real world.

And so, what is that going to look like for y'all that's going to be different? Like in my house, I could have bought my son a truck.

And he knew that years ago. And he

treats that truck and it's it's my old truck and I gave him a great obviously I did all the parent things, right? Gave him a great deal and all that. He loves that truck and he takes care of that thing because he it's years of his life he invested in it. And so I want to teach him how to scratch and fight and claw and I won't have the money to buy him a house when he graduates, right?

But man, he'll have the tools in his toolkit. And so some of that is as he's gotten older, I've talked more about our household budget with him. In fact, our 10-year-old daughter, we just started, she leaves lights on everywhere, right?

We just started talking about the light bill and here's what here's what the light bill cost. And now I'm watching her go through. She's now she's turning off the lights when I'm in the middle of doing something. and she's like, "Dad, it's expensive." Right? And that's a little bit far, but I want our kids to know how the world works. And that way

they're I I don't want to give them bruises and I don't want to manufacture broken arms for them, but I do want them to know how the world operates. And as their parents, whether we have nothing or we we're in a season of abundance, man, they they're going to know that life isn't free. And that means they're going to not have an allowance, but they're going to get paid for jobs. And I love hearing my 16-year-old came in the other day and he's like, "I need to put gas in the car." And my wife said, "There's three weeks worth of dog poop you haven't picked up in the backyard.

Go get on it." Right?

in the truck." Right? And so he's going to learn those lessons so that when he goes out there, but you are dead on a

two two people who get married, them two plus God plus the world. That's it. And the other thing I'll tell you is the data is pretty clear. The greatest gift parents can give their kids is to love each other recklessly.

And that gives kids something to anchor into as they head out into the world.

And so it sounds like you and your husband are doing a great job already.

>> Yeah. So I think the goal, Hillary, would be that you teach them in such a way while they're under your roof how to do things and how to have the dignity and the self-sufficiency of of learning work and where money comes from and all of that. So that if later because part of our message is changing your family tree and part of that does look like, you know, we have people on the show and they're like >> need it when they're 70, right? in my so

yeah and and we've heard people that are like I'm the last one to ever be in debt and I will do x y and z but I do expect them to have jobs and whatever like I don't know whatever the the formula is so my goal would be because and I talked about this that if there is anything in the future that is given if we pay for their tuition for college

if we pay for their wedding and they don't have to pay for their like whatever that thing is that that doesn't ruin them right and if it ruins them then the character was never built in the first place >> and So yes, have the dignity of creating

their own paycheck. They need to be.

Yes. Out in the world because it's good for them. It's good for society, right?

To be hard workers and all of it. I just don't want something dependent any level of a financial gift to ruin them. I really that that would be like a a character flaw. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah, it does. Um, and I mean again they're little but we are working pretty hard on you know they for money and we're doing generosity and all of the

gifts just kind of won't even matter.

>> That's right. And we did 401 Dave in our house. We had to pay for all half of our cars. That's what we plan on doing with our kids. John's already lived through it with 401 dad and and I and I love it.

And here's another thing Hillary. Um what I have found besides chores and things like that. And I'll tell you, in our house, we divide up. There's some things that you do in our house because you're a part of this house, >> right?

I'm not going to pay you for being a part of the family. >> Yeah. And then there's other things that are jobs that either I would hire out or that I have to do and so I'll pay somebody to do it and you might as well take it. Um >> Dave was always like, I don't want to create little union workers.

Every sock you pick up, you expect a quarter.

tip.

That's when he got the idea of money >> because he would watch I it started with hey how much do you how much you want to give as a tip and he'd say $2. And I'd like more. And he would watch them, the

waiter or the waitress, they would smile. One time at Christmas, they chased us out in the parking lot to give us hugs. Like him seeing and my daughter and now I too seeing what generosity looks like and how it's received. That

for whatever reason has been the biggest shape shift in that, oh, we can be a

blessing to other people. I want to be a part of blessing other people. What does that mean? Well, that means you got to work real hard so you have your needs taken care of so that you can bless like crazy.

And so all that to say is there's a bunch of little things you and your husband can do um even when they're young to begin to teach them about how y'all handle money and they're going to mirror what y'all do out in the world. >> Yeah. And the importance of money and where where it is the role it plays in your life, Hillary, which is going to be good.

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Our scripture of the day comes from Hebrews 4:16.

Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Norman Vincent, is it Peele? I don't know. Tell me, John, you >> I don't know. According to you, it's PLA. >> You know that uh those names, they can be hard. >> Norman Vincent PLA.

>> That's right. It said, "Empty pockets

never held anyone back. Only empty heads

and empty hearts can do that." Oh,

>> Norman Vincent Peele was a famous ice skater.

>> Are you being for real right now? >> No. >> Oh gosh. >> I was going to fall for it and be like, "Oh, I had no idea."

>> Is he an author? He's a writer.

>> Yeah, he was a >> Yeah, he's an author. >> Oh, he was a James >> American Protestant clergyman and an author. Yes, >> he's a writer. Oo, clergyman. Fancy.

>> Do you know what clergyman is?

>> Or as Rachel calls them, clairg.

All right, let's head to Denise.

>> It's not thermometers. Thermometer name.

I can say this name. Denise and Houston, Texas. Dice. >> This is D. Nice in Hton Tone.

>> A Ron. Okay.

>> That's a great skit. That's so good.

Okay. All right. Denise, we're coming to you in Houston.

>> What's up, Denise? Hi, Denise. Hi. How are you?

>> Um, I guess I'm okay now. Better that I'm uh talking to you guys.

>> All right, we got you. I was just in Houston this weekend. It's my hometown and I love it. >> And Denise is my sister's name, so we feel connected to you already. >> We got you. What's up?

>> Okay. Awesome. Well, I'm a a spouse of a

disabled vet that re recently received

our 100%.

But in the interim room, I incur debt

personally and um businesswise. I occur

about uh 35,000 in businesswide and

probably about the same in personal debt. >> Um the company I used to work for went bankrupt two years ago, so I decided to do my own um business, which was a

boutique. Um, but now I think I'm ready

to go back into um the workforce because the tariff actually made my business, you know, kind of fail somewhat. I'm still doing

it part-time and I just need advice. Um,

I'm a great sales consultant slash

finance manager and um, yeah, I just

need some guidance. >> Okay. And it's $35,000 in business debt.

And then you said 35,000 more on

personal >> and the personal. Yes. >> Okay. What's the personal debt? What?

Break that 35 down.

>> Credit cards.

>> Credit cards. Okay. >> And loans. >> Was it used um were you using that on the business or was that just like personal? You were just using it for life. >> That was Yeah, I was using it for life.

Okay. While we go through trying to get

the 100%, you know.

>> Yeah. Where are you at on that? met my hus um I'm just I was paying what I can like

a lot of them are being default. I just recently, you know, negotiated like one or two of them, but yeah.

>> Okay. >> But I Yeah, it's just I don't start

Ubering, but I know I need to go back into the workforce. >> Okay. But you're you're still part-time at the boutique and you own the boutique, correct?

>> Yes, correct. >> Okay. How are you how are you working part-time? Do you have do you have other workers that are there when you're not there? >> No, I don't. I don't.

>> Okay. Um hm. With all the merchandise

and everything you have in it, if you ended up selling it or liquidating everything, do you know what you would get out of the business?

>> Well, that's what I started doing, but then I got overwhelmed. Yeah.

>> I paused it for two weeks because I've just been really, really overwhelmed.

But um I think I need to go back to um

trying to liquidate it and go

>> cuz what's it making a month?

>> What does it bring in a month?

>> Um it was bringing like at least six

grand, but now because of the tariff and all that um maybe two.

>> It's bringing in two grand and that's profit after your expenses and everything. >> Okay. Okay. So, you're not go you're not going in the red >> because I paid >> No. No. >> Okay. >> So, it's two grand. And is that Sorry.

With you working part-time making two grand doing with all of it. If you think you went full-time, would you double that or probably not just with >> the amount of foot traffic and stuff because it's a boutique? >> I probably would. I guess I just got nervous and overwhelmed and start hoovering and kind of >> Yeah, because if you brought in four grand a month, if that's what you made and if that was I mean I guess you'd have to bring it home and pay taxes on that.

Yeah, it's still not a ton.

>> Uh, no. He's a disabled pet.

>> Okay. How much does he get in disability a month?

>> Uh, he got disability. He has um his

pension and stuff. um

I think about five or 6,000 when he's

taking care of the other bills. The only bill that I need to pay is my car note which is a Corolla. And what kind of set me back not just a tariff I got into a bad car accident. Okay.

>> Which set me out of work for >> Sorry. Okay. Yeah.

>> Well, I think kind of like a balance.

But one of the best I think actions for you guys is even the way you're explaining how you guys are paying bills in the household. It kind of sounds like he takes care of this, I take care of that with his salary, my all of it.

>> I want you guys to look more holistically and say here are the bills of the household regardless of who drives what car or whose credit card, whatever. >> As a household, here's where we're at and as a household, here's the income that's coming in. How can we most efficiently use this household income to

tackle not only the household bills but also get us out of debt? And I do wonder

if there's more of a >> um Yeah, that holistic approach might

help. I don't know, Denise, because I'm wondering if you do I I probably would.

Yes. either look somewhere else or go full-time in this boutique and see if you can if you can make four grand.

Because if so, that's 10 grand a month you guys are bringing in, you know, if that's the case, which is not bad.

That's that's good. And you guys can make some headway on some of this debt if that's the case. So, I think you kind of have to plan out >> and put your business hat on and just say, "Okay, realistically, could I profit out four grand out of this business or more?" And if it doesn't look realistic, as you're saying, tariffs and all of this, when you look at your expenses, if it just feels like it's going to go into the red or your effort is better spent in another position in another job because you could double your income, right?

Yeah. What you could get out of it. So, so I would kind of I would kind of map out those those two plans. see and shop some jobs outside of that boutique living and just say, "Okay, what's out there for me realistically and what could I make?" And I would say, "If I worked here full-time at the boutique, could I double triple what I would I profit?" >> Okay. >> But I I Denise, like, tell me if I'm wrong here.

You don't fully know all the money your husband has coming in, do you?

>> No. >> Okay. I think part of the scary thing for you right now is you're doing all this alone

>> and there's >> Yeah, because >> I've been a single mom, I guess.

>> Okay. >> All my life. >> Yeah. So, and >> you know, >> and I and I get you've been grinding your whole life. Are you married to this guy?

>> Yes. >> Okay. I I I would love it if you sat

down tonight and said, "I want us to for

the first time go all in on each other."

And I want us to put all of our money in one account. I want us to put all of our debts on the table. I want to put all of our income on the table. And I want us to look at how the total picture of our

financial picture and how are we going to work out on our debts.

>> I guess I never been in this position before. >> I know. I know. It's scary >> and I'm so used to doing it alone and

>> and it's tiring. It's exhausting. Huh.

>> Yes. I was a single mom. But I will say

my daughter is in grad school. I did so much to get her there. >> You did good. >> Yeah, you're good, Denise.

>> And I haven't um I did it almost alone, >> which was very important, you know.

>> But but here's the thing. I want you to allow your husband who looked you in the eye and said, "Till death do his part." >> I want you to allow him to love you like you loved your daughter.

>> You're you're worth being loved now.

>> Yeah. >> And so both of y'all fight this thing together. >> And Denise, hang on the line. and and Christian's going to pick up.

We're going to give you every dollar cuz it will start walking you through the baby steps, the debt snowball. You guys get a budget together and sit down together and start mapping this out. So, it's a good tool that may help start that conversation. But, thank you so much for the call, John.

Great show. Thanks to everyone in the booth and our great audience today here in Franklin, Tennessee.

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## 66. Financial Victories Don't Happen Without Sacrifices | December 16, 2025


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:54:06 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Merry

Christmas to you. We're so glad you're here. Open phones at 888255225.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, solo today, or at least for part of the time. So, here's how it goes. Simon's going to kick us off in Phoenix. Hi, Simon.

What's up? >> Hey, Dave. How's it going? I appreciate you taking the call. >> Sure. How can I help?

>> I am um I'm 26. Me and my wife are um

both working full-time. We um she's a parallegal. I work in personal lines insurance, but on the side we run a um

small that's turned into a little bit bigger than small um Turo fleet of about

six cheaper vehicles. They range from 20

um 17 2019. Um and we've kind of, you

know, used some of your methods over the years. Uh it's been about 3 years since we've done it. we've, you know, paid for them, um, gotten them paid off very quickly and, um, we're debtree on all

those and it's pretty much just straight, um, cash, taking in cash at this point. But I want to expand it

more, um, quickly um, so that it maybe

can turn into a full-time thing for either her or for me. Um, and I'm just

curious on maybe what would be the next step um, from, you know, somebody else's

perspective to jump into that without taking out a major loan since vehicle prices are pretty extremely high right now, especially for newer ones. Um, but especially for cheaper ones um, at the moment cuz or for older ones that um,

don't seem to be as cheap um, at the moment um, without you know drowning myself in in debt from that.

>> Yeah. When we're teaching small business people entree leadership lessons, I tell

those guys and gals to grow organically with the cash that the business creates.

That's what we've done at Ramsey for 35 years. $300 million company this year.

We've never borrowed a dime. Every bit of everything we have, we reinvested profits to grow the business. That was

slower than I would have liked it

sometimes. I was frustrated at times because I I think I've got something in front of me that feels like an opportunity and I don't have the money to do it right now. And that limitation

has kept me from doing some pretty stupid things where I got out over my skis. So I tell our guys all the time when we're coaching small businesses to try to land on the cover of Slow Company magazine, not Fast Company magazine. Patience.

Patience. Build something that's sustainable. And because the the one thing we know about the space you're in, it's a brand new space. It's a disruptive space and it's going to iterate. There's going to be a lot 5 years from now. It will not look anything like it looks right now.

Agreed. >> Absolutely. >> And so if you had a 5-year loan, you're anticipating nothing changing and being able to make that loan. That's a asinine. You're not going to get there.

Okay. Because you're in a very disruptive space. So I I How much? So,

so your only cost once you pay cash for the car, the capital asset, then you're taking uh obviously the customer is providing their own gasoline, correct?

>> Correct. Yeah. >> And so you're providing insurance and repairs and loss in value and so forth,

right? >> Correct. >> So those are your expenses. So how long have you been running these cars?

>> About three and a half years.

>> And what are you netting? What's your net profit after your expenses?

Um, this year was our best year. I would

say it was about after all the expenses, it was about 32,000.

>> So, buy some cars with it. You have a job. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Um, and and it was and I guess

actually net would be a little bit lower this year. >> That's what I asked was net.

>> Yeah. Cash in in the bank would be

>> that's net about eight right now. um

after after um we pay the insurance and full. >> You've got gross revenue minus expenses equals net. >> Yeah. >> Which would in a cashbased business would be the cash in the bank, dude.

>> And by the way, that's all taxable. You got to pay taxes on that. So, here we are at the end of the year. You're not going to, you know, you're going to get hammered. So, some of that 30 something,000 is not 30,000. It's probably more like 25 or 22. What What was it? >> Uh yeah, >> minus taxes. Buy some cars.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Um the I guess

the only other >> What's your average price of your car?

>> Um to sell today they range from probably with all the depreciation uh >> No, I mean if you went and bought a car today to put into this, what would you pay for it? >> Um 14.

>> Okay. So you can buy one car.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Or two if or two if you roll up your sleeves and don't do 14, right?

>> You'll buy two. You can probably buy two $10,000 cars.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And that's going to and you've got a fleet of six and so that's going to increase your revenues by 20%. That's pretty strong growth curve.

>> Correct.

>> Absolutely. >> Have you discovered Have you discovered yet that some models of cars uh do better in terms of appeal to the potential renter >> significantly. Minivans do.

>> And have you have you discovered that some cars break down more than others?

>> Sure. I stick to only Honda and Toyota

>> because of that. Okay. So, so you've kind of got your pattern laid out here.

>> You're, you know, you're you're tweaking your business model, >> you know, as you should, iterating as you go along. And I'm just going to beg you to not get out over your skis, man.

I know it's tempting. You feel like you're making a lot of money, but you're really not. I mean, you made 20 grand, >> correct? >> That's not life-changing money, and you're putting up with a lot of crap for 20 grand.

I mean, this is Airbnb in a car. You talk about air freshener, dude, you need some after these. I unbelievable. So, I mean, so I I don't even want to think about the stuff you find in these vehicles. And so, I No, I mean, um,

yeah, this is a lot of work for 20 grand. I don't know that we want to scale this, but you can scale it and have some fun with it, but pay cash as you go, and then the worst case is the thing iterates out from under you. it becomes illegal in your city or the uh the driverless cars come in and take over your city and put you out of business uh or whatever it is, something else iterates and disrupts because welcome to our world. And that's what business people understand is risk and that there is a there's a thing called the myth of continuity.

100% chance of change. It's in the

weather forecast every night. There's going to be change. There's going to be change. There's going to be change. And when you're running a small business and you go along with the myth of continuity, so you go borrow 35 or $40,000 and put six of these things on the road only to find out you're completely out of business and have car debt.

Oh, wow. That's a problem. Um, you know,

so, so you can't predict all the outside variables. All you can do is build a solid foundation so when COVID hits, you survive.

So when Whimo hits, you survive. So when

it becomes illegal to do Turo in your town, you survive. And all of those things are in play, by the way. Cuz guess who doesn't like you? Some of the big boys. Herz, Avis, hello. They got a

little money. They're messing with your city council right now. I promise you.

Guess what? Who else doesn't like you?

Taxi cabs. They don't like Uber either,

but they hadn't been able to run them out of business yet, but they were trying. So, there's always an ongoing war. There's an outside force that you're not considering when you just look at your simple cash flow and you haven't considered all these risk factors in there. So, build something sustainable. Be on the cover of Slow Company magazine. I don't mind you growing it, but grow it only with cash.

And that'll be a governor, a a limiting

factor on your growth curve to keep you reasonable and keep you from getting your butt in trouble, man.

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Ricky's in Sacramento. Hi Ricky. Welcome

to the Ramsey Show.

>> Please uh have me on. Thank you so much.

>> Sure. What's up? Um, I have a question um about me and my

boyfriend. We've been together for about 2 years. Our financial system system has been completely fine. We have all of our bills. We But we've never had a true conversation about money and our future.

And I want to know how I can bring this up to him without starting into argument or having him shut down on me about finances. because it seems like every time I do bring it up and I do want to start talking about finances, it's I want to do this by myself. Please let me do it by myself and I I want to work with him on this, but I don't know how to bring that into a conversation.

>> Are y'all talking about marriage?

>> Um, yeah. So, in about uh he said when

the relationship got to the fifth year that he would propose to me. Um but

uh with how our financial situation is going, I don't I'm not sure if that's actually going to happen.

>> Mhm.

Okay. Well, the number one cause of divorce in America is money fights and money problems, money stress, disagreement.

>> Okay. And so if you're going to get married, you have to solve for that not

being there to to increase the probability of your marriage being a success, right?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. And so that's how I'm going to talk to him about it and say, "Listen, the number one thing that breaks people up is money issues. We need to get on

the same page with money. And if we're on the same page, doesn't matter where the what the what the page is, as long as we're on the same page. I mean, you can have debt, you can have a income issue, I can have debt, I can have an income issue. Uh, but, uh, you know, we've got to be in agreement about how money is being handled and that we're working our way out of debt and into wealth to have a high probability, a high chance of our marriage being awesome.

>> Yeah, I I understand that completely.

>> And that's how I would say it. Say that. Say that to him.

>> Yeah, absolutely. I will definitely >> and if he says I just want to do my own thing, he's telling you he doesn't want to get married >> and I I should just accept that at that point and kind of go with my own financial situation. >> Well, just decide whether you want to live with somebody the rest of your life and and be, you know, sharing the mustard or whatever it is you do.

>> All right. >> Which, by the way, the probability of you building wealth is very low when you do that.

Married people have married people have

married Married people have 13 times the net worth of unmarried people shacking up.

>> I gota I gota I I will have a

conversation with him and we'll try I'll try to bring this up and everything.

>> Yeah, that's what you got to do. I mean, you just got to talk it through and say, "Listen, this if if we're if we're not going to if we're really going to have a future, it's like 30 years from now, we're sitting on the front porch with the rocking chairs and so forth, right?

40 years from now, whatever it is, if we're really going to have a future, we got to start talking about what that looks like and what the best path is to get there and be in agreement on that." And money flows through every bit of that. And and irresponsible spending

does not flow through that. and big

piles of debt does not flow through that. That doesn't, you know, and and you know, just buying whatever I want to buy, being immature and having a little fit. I work so hard. I deserve You don't deserve anything. Shut up. Whining. When

you have the money to buy it, you deserve it. And that's cuz you worked for it. Other than until you do, don't talk to me about what you deserve. Crud.

You deserve calluses on your hand and sweat on your brow until you get the money to buy something. That's how it works. And that's what all of us face.

That's how we all live. And so, yeah.

Anyway, so Ricky, you just got to talk that through. And you guys have to be in agreement about our goals and what our desired future is and where we're going from here. And man, it makes a big difference when you do. It's very, very cool. Uh, Alex is that was Ricky. I'm sorry. Alex is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Alex. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. Thanks for taking my call. Big fan. >> Thank you. How can I help?

So, in approximately 3 to four months from now, um the two savings accounts that I have in saving uh will line up

with what I owe on my mortgage um that

will be paid off. My question is the three approximately $300 a week that I

was paying towards my mortgage. Um what should I do with that? >> Your mortgage payment is only $1,200.

>> No, no, it's $1,550. But of course that's the um that includes taxes and

insurance. >> Okay. So you're you'll be rid of the $1,550.

And your question is what >> what should you do with that? >> The three Yeah. What should I do with the the $300 a week, which I'm

estimating, do I stack that on top of my 401k contributions? Do I put it into a

Acorn's account? >> No. >> Um I >> You don't put where my money is.

>> Really? >> Yeah, I have.

>> So, I've been saving in Acorns, two

accounts, later and the one that's now

um for many years. That Acorn's account is worth, you see, 62,000 of today, and

I've made 19.8,000.

The later account is worth 20.5,000.

That's a Roth IRA account. This year is the first time I've maxed out 7,000 towards the Roth IRA.

>> You're not talking about cashing out the Roth to pay off your mortgage.

>> No, no, I'm talking about the first one where >> So your mortgage is only 60,000 bucks.

>> No, no, the other account is a savings

account. My mortgage right now is I owe 97,000. >> Oh, I see. And what's the interest rate on your mortgage?

>> 3.375.

Yeah. >> You're not making any more than that on savings.

No, no, I'm not. No, the savings is just

a rainy day fund. And right now I have 10 grand. >> So when you pay off the mortgage using the acrons and the savings, do you have an emergency fund left?

>> I have nothing left.

>> We don't do that >> because >> I wouldn't do that, >> right? >> I would have an emergency fund and above that I would pay off my mortgage. So the first thing is you need to grow an emergency fund or keep an emergency fund. So what would I do if I were in your shoes?

I'd put $60,000 on the mortgage out of the acres and close the account today and I would take the mortgage down the other savings account down to 3 to six months of expenses and put it on the mortgage and then I'd tear into that mortgage as hard as I could tear into it.

Are you single?

>> I'm single. I have one kid who's 28.

>> Do you have any other debt of any kind?

>> No. >> What do you make? M I make 106,000 a

year and then I rent out my basement as a mother-in-law and I make 950 a month.

>> Okay, good for you. Well done. Okay, so Alex, what what there's three things when you get all this done and the mortgage is gone and you have your emergency fund in place and then we're putting 15% of our income into retirement into good Roth IRA and Roth 401ks with a match if you have one at work and that kind of thing. Once you're doing all of those things, then there's three things you can do with money. And you ought to always do all three things.

We've already covered the first one, which is investing it. The second thing is generosity. Giving it

as a matter of a percentage of your income. Steadily giving, not just one time I gave $10. It's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a steady rhythm of giving. Third thing is

a steady rhythm of enjoyment of your money. You are a saver, my friend. you

enjoy saving, you get a high from saving. You need to also learn to give and you need to learn to enjoy some of this money. That's why it's so hard to get. And then you need to have all three things going at all times. And that that's what I would tell you to do once you have the house paid off and have a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses in your savings account.

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Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter joins me as a co-host. Corey is in Bowling Green. Hey Corey, what's up?

>> Hey Dave, it's such a honor to talk to you. Uh, two very quick questions for you. >> All right, so uh, my kid is in college

last year. He got financial aid, most of it paid for. Our income has increased to the point where next year I'm probably going to be paying for the whole thing.

um our lifestyle has crept up at the

same rate that our income has crept up.

So, while we're trying to become a little more disciplined on our spending, um I've committed to paying for my kids

college and trying to cash flow it, but we are still in some debt oursel. So, my

question is should I uh hold on to that

commitment to cover his college if uh we are still in debt oursel?

What is the expense for the college? How much?

>> Uh, I expect next year there could be a potential living on campus. So, it could be $30,000. It's local. It's not too bad. >> Mhm. And what do you make? What's household income? >> So, my wife and I's household income, it's uh it's 200,000.

>> Mhm. Okay.

And how much debt do you have, not counting your home?

>> So, uh let's see. Not counting my home. Um, it's about $50,000.

>> Okay. >> What's it in, Corey? What type of debt?

>> It's a It's a stupid car and uh just a

just very little credit card debt.

>> So, how much is the stupid car?

>> Uh, right at $30,000.

>> Okay. And 20 in credit card debt.

>> Yep. >> Okay. All right.

And and do you realize that what you said to me was is that we increased our

lifestyle while we're in baby step two

trying to get out of debt. And instead of cutting that, you were talking about not getting out of debt to pay for college and keep our lifestyle up.

That's what you accidentally told us

>> because I'm sure you didn't say that on purpose.

>> Well, uh I'm I'm aware. I've been listening to y'all for a while. So, uh, there was a little intentionality there.

>> Okay. All right.

>> So, when you say upping your lifestyle, Cory, what does that mean? Is it just that you guys are enjoying this >> 200,000 that you're making? You know what I mean? When >> my kids were >> Go ahead. >> I apologize. Uh, when my kids were very, very young, uh, we used to not be able to afford uh the smallest of toys. So, as our income has come up, we've started going on probably a little larger family vacations than we should be going on. Uh

well, you need to you guys you and your wife need to sit down and decide what your goals are. Okay? Because you can't have three goals at once. You have to have one.

So, what is our goal? Is our goal to build wealth and some sustainability for our family? If it is, we're going to live like no one else, which means we're going to temporarily >> go no lifestyle, no vacations, no restaurants, no anything until we get the stupid debt cleaned up. And when the debt is cleaned up, then we're going to build an emergency fund.

>> Oh, yeah. >> So, you're not on baby step two. You're just kind of making up your own plan.

>> Okay. Baby step two is you stop all

lifestyle, scorched earth. You temporarily stop the 401k.

Um, the kid lives at home, not on campus, and you pay for his tuition and that's it. And you knock this debt out.

And if you want to do it even faster, sell the car. But otherwise, keep the car and pay it off. The car is not hugely impossible. But you can't go out

to eat every night, go on a lavish vacation, put the kid on campus, have all this debt, and hope the debt just magically goes away. Mathematically, it's not going to happen. That's what you've discovered.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, something's got to give you. And you ought to decide what's going to give on purpose, not be making 200 grand and end up broke someday. That'd be a dad gum shame.

Agreed. >> Yeah. And Corey, and honestly, you know, your income's great. And so, you look at it and it's not going to take you guys too long. I mean, if you think about after taxes and everything, what you're bringing home, >> I mean, if you guys just lived on 70 for a year, that's it. You could do all You could pay off debt, pay for the college.

I mean, all of it. You know what I mean? It's just like one year, the year of 2026. This is our year of just getting everything cleaned up because making this kind of money and having 20,000 in credit card debt does speak pretty loudly to >> I promise Junior to pay for college but I didn't promise to pay for beer pong so you can live at home.

>> Right. That is what's currently happening this year is living at home. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's not a bad thing.

>> And maybe it's you guys, you know, make massive progress in the spring and maybe him starting in the fall. You know what I mean? Like then he can live on campus or something. But um but I think a lot of this these numbers are pretty doable, Corey. But it's gonna take. >> And by the way, Junior could go get a job delivering pizzas and pay for his own dorm.

>> Yes. Yeah. >> I worked I worked when I was in college.

Did you go to college, Corey?

>> Yes. >> Did you work when you were in college?

>> I was full-time father. Full-time worker through college. >> Yeah. Me, too. I wasn't a father, but I was a full-time worker. >> I was going to say >> full-time worker. And I mean, hey, most

people most adults walking around over the age of 35 will tell you that if they went through four years of college, they worked >> some of the time. >> It's not child abuse. It's actually very good. If I'm hiring as as a Ramsey CEO

someone straight out of college and they've never worked, I'm nervous.

>> Yes. I never held any job. I would rather hire a B minus student who worked 40 hours a week and knows what a callous is than I would an A+ student who's never worked a dime and doesn't even know what it means to show up eight hours a day cuz they're going to come in here and go, "Oh, wait. This is what we do.

We come every day all day." Yeah, that's what we do. And it changes everything. So, it's okay if little boy little Junior goes and gets a job. >> And our research, this is this is probably a little bit older.

Um, we may have done this, I don't know, maybe eight when we did the borrowed future document.

a week while in school, 15 to 20, actually have higher GPA than students that don't. So, >> probability of graduating. >> Yes. So, yeah, it is um yeah, there's something to that for sure.

>> Yeah. The student athletes, a lot of them run and they're running full-time jobs as student athletes. A lot of them run higher GPA than the general population. >> It's not unusual.

>> And because the professors may like them, too. Well, that that could be, but it could be like, you know, I remember when Pat had summit Well, Pat had summit was there, every one of those there were great I know. Yeah. >> Every one of those girls graduated at the University of Tennessee ladies team in those days, the women's basketball, and the vast majority of them are on the honor roll.

>> I mean, so it was uh she run a tight Yes. I think coaches run the tight shift. >> So anyway, it's it's all this is possible.

>> Send Junior to college, enjoy life, and get out of debt. We can't do all three

for this year. Do we want to take a year off of enjoying life so that we can be

debtree and Junior goes to school and lives at home that year? And that's all very very doable. You'd be debtree in a year without even selling the car. Oh, and temporarily stop the 401k for a year.

>> Yeah. And this is a great example of kind of like the ish mentality when it comes to this because it's like Yeah. I mean, he's funding retire. I mean, he's doing some things that are, you know, fine, but it's like, yeah, we'll have a credit card.

Eh, we'll get that one car loan. The other car is paid for, but this one.

in all of it. Yep. You know what I mean?

So, yeah. So, there is this like extreme mentality to take, but then you get the result out of it, which is fantastic.

>> Live like no one else so that later you live and give like no one else. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. There's a process to be p there's a price to be paid to win at these things. And it's focused intensity. And when you're intentional with it, it changes everything. The problem is in America, we make so stinking much money that it feels like we can have it all. And the old saying,

you have your cake and eat it too, right? Um you really can't. And and so for years, I was really good at making money. And I worked really really hard to try to out earn my stupidity, out

earn my mediocre undisiplined habits. And it doesn't work. You can't you can't make enough to do that because as soon because your mediocre undisiplined habits will go up every time your income goes up and and so you can't get away from this until you deal with the person in your mirror.

All of us. Cory, you're no I'm not fussing at you exclusively. I mean it's all of us. All of us deal with that same thing. But I think you and your I I have a sense that you've kind of realized this, but you're afraid to break it to the rest of the family. And so you and your wife tonight get to have a come to Jesus meeting.

And we're going to decide what we're going to be when we grow up. Grown-ups are children's. Adults devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good.

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JC is in Boisee, Idaho. Hi JC, how are you?

>> Hi JC, how are you?

>> JC, >> hi. Can you hear me? >> I can. How are you?

I'm great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Hi. I am trying to figure out how to save for retirement and leave my kids with as much money as possible since my husband passed away.

>> I'm sorry. When did he pass?

>> Uh, two years ago.

>> How old was he?

>> He was only 28. >> Whoa. What happened? >> Oh my gosh.

>> Um, he actually passed away from an accidental overdose.

>> Oh my goodness. Oh, Jaci, I'm so sorry.

>> Oh, that's horrible. >> How many kids do you have?

>> Three. >> Three. What are their ages?

>> 10, four, and my little one, uh, I was

pregnant at the time, and he'll be almost two. >> Oh my gosh. >> Whoa.

Life insurance?

>> I'm trying to get it, but unfortunately I have some medical issues, so I keep getting >> No, no, no. I'm sorry. Did he have life insurance that was left to you?

>> No. >> Okay. So, what is your income, ma'am?

>> Um, well, I am making $50 an hour right

now with my cleaning business.

>> Good for you.

>> That's a lot of work. >> That's great. How much money are you bringing home a month?

>> Um, I'm bringing in about 2,000 a week.

Um, but I just started rebuilding my life. I >> went through a lot of depression and blew through what savings I had. So, I'm having a lot of guilt about that.

>> I I wouldn't You've been through hell. I I completely understand what you what you're where you are and I'm real proud of you for coming up out of this and rising up out of it and then starting your own business $50 an hour. Way to go, mom. Good job.

>> Thank you. Thank you. >> Very good. Okay, so um it sounds like it

feels like that you're fairly new to all this Ramsay stuff. We teach a process for building wealth called the baby steps. Have you ever heard of that?

>> I have. uh just been listening to you and started hearing of it again. >> Yeah. So, but the first goal is to save $1,000. Do you have any money saved?

>> I have nothing saved right now. I blew

through my savings. >> Got it. So, the first goal is to get a little baby emergency fund between you and a flat tire.

Okay. >> Okay. >> Or you and an alternator going out in the car or whatever it is, right? Okay.

because you got to get to work and you got all these kids like little all these little baby birds there wanting to be fed, right? So, we got to make sure they're okay. So, goal one is a little starter emergency fund. Then, do you have any debt?

>> I have a car loan right now.

>> How much do you owe on the car?

>> 30,000. >> Okay. That's a lot. Okay.

>> Yes. >> And what other debt do you have?

>> Um, just a couple little things that probably equal $1,000.

>> Okay. like a little credit card debt or something. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Good. Do you have a mortgage?

>> No. Okay. >> We rent. >> And you're 32.

>> 31. >> 31. Okay. That's what based on your numbers. That's what I was guessing. Okay. Um

Okay. So, goal one is $1,000. Two is

we've either got to sell this car and move down and or get it paid off very

very quickly. It is standing between you

and the answer to your question. Your question was, "How do I build some wealth for retirement and leave something to my kids?" Okay? And the

answer is you get rid of the stinking car payment. That's the step one. So, we got to get the thing paid off or sell it and move down so that we can get that one paid off even faster. When you are 100% debtree, then we're going to go back to the $1,000 account. And baby step three is three to six months of expenses. Let's call that 10 or $15,000 for you.

>> Okay. >> Now, with your income and no payments

and 15,000 in the bank, life feels

different already. Agreed.

>> Yes. It's just my expenses are so high.

My rent is 2,000 a month. My daycare is

almost 3,000 a month. >> And your car payment is 700 a month.

>> Yeah. And >> that's the only one we can deal with.

>> Okay. unless you move into a cheaper rent. If you want to do that, that's okay. But when you don't have any payments except those payments, no car payment, in other words, and you've got an emergency fund, then you're poised to begin to build some wealth.

We start talking about saving up to buy a house, and we start talking about putting 15% of your income away for retirement. And you'll be able to do all that because we're going to put you on Every Dollar, which is the world's best financial tool and budgeting app. So, it's going to not only teach you how to do a budget, but it's going to teach you how to walk through these baby steps and do stuff what we call the Ramsay way. Okay.

Which is the shortest distance between where you are in retiring with dignity.

>> Yes. >> What are they?

>> Um, I'm dealing I have a traumatic brain

injury from a car. So, I deal with things like vertigo. I have a a sleep

apnnea I'm trying to do a sleep study for. And um just a few other things.

>> Are you overweight? >> My spine issue.

>> Are you overweight?

>> Um yes, I gained some weight since my husband passed. >> Okay. Is that affecting the life insurance? Because obesity will hit the life insurance harder than smoking will.

Okay. And and sometimes the apnea will tie back to that and that's what'll keep them from keep you from getting a decent rate. So again, something you can work on. Okay.

um being overweight and smoking are the two biggest factors in driving life insurance cost way through the roof.

Otherwise, it's just the cost of a pizza. And those are both controllable factors. Okay? So, long-term, I'm just

talking through your your your 10-year game plan here. I'm not 10 days, okay? I

want to heap a bunch of stuff on you, but there's a whole process you can go through here where the life insurance gets cheap. You make sure your kids are taken care of before you've got some wealth built, and then we get out of debt and we build some wealth and then you're taken care of at retirement. teach them to go out and be self-sufficient. But if you left them a couple million dollars, that'd be okay, too. It'd be the great end of this story, wouldn't it?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Is it too late to build that money?

>> No. No. You easily could have five or 10

million when you retire if you follow exactly what we teach you to do. But you're going to have to make some tough choices.

>> Yeah. I'm wondering, JC, for the car, um, do you know if you sold it, what what you could get? Are you underwater on it at all?

Um, they said it's not worth what I bought it for. Um, they said it's only worth, I think, like 18,000 right now.

>> Okay. I They are a dealer wanting to buy the car at wholesale. So, jump online at kbb kellybluebook.com and run a private sale out on that thing. It's probably 25 or 26,000.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I would just be curious because if there if you can get out of it and get a $10,000 car, it sure would be helpful in this process.

>> Okay. And there's and there's some reliable cars at that price point because >> not forever, but just to get your life.

>> I know, but I'm just thinking if she's a mom with the three little kids that is going to be a concern. >> I'm not saying drive a $10,000 car for the rest of your life. I want you to be a multi-millionaire and drive a nice car. Okay, >> but we got to get we have to pay a price to get there and you're digging out of a tremendous hole.

Hey, we're going to give you every dollar and the full upgrade to it and a full uh subscription. I'm also going to send you a copy of the book uh The Total Money Makeover, which walks you through these baby steps we've been talking about. And we're here for you, kiddo. If you need anything, you call us back.

We'll I want to hear your story. I want to hear how you're doing. We'll put you back on the air and answer your question if you run into something. But you can do this.

You can do this. You've just been through hell. >> Yeah.

walking through what you've walked through and 100% >> I would be using every dime that I had in order just to keep my head above water. So, that was there as that was there as a gift. see that as a blessing that savings was there to catch you financially that you you know I mean just you really could have called us and had easily 30 grand in credit card debt you know and we would have unders you know there's a part that you're like I could see how you got there if you know your husband passes away suddenly you have three you're pregnant three little kids like it or two little kids it could have been so much worse right and so there is a there is the reason that savings was there and that's a gift and you used it >> as someone who lost their husband and you had two little kids and you were pregnant and that's what it was for.

>> Amen. Can I give you one more suggestion? >> I appreciate that. >> Can I give you one more suggestion?

>> Yes. >> If you're not in a good church, find one in the area and start start attending.

One of the things that people of the book are required to do, and we're people of the book here, is take care of widows. And they'll wrap their arms around you, and you'll have a support mechanism to help and walk walk you through this cuz you've also been by yourself while you're doing all this.

and you need community. So, just an idea. Check it out. We're going to give you all this stuff. You stay on the line and Christian's going to hook you up. We're going to set you up with everything you need and you call back anytime you need to, kiddo.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Frank is in Montreal, Quebec. Hey Frank, how are you?

>> You >> good. How can I help?

>> Been listening to the show for a few weeks now. I'm a big fan. Um, so I just need a clear path uh because I I feel a bit financially trapped. I'm currently 32 years old. I'm working at a federal agency and I make about 3,800 gross a

month. >> Okay. Come off speaker phone. Come off speaker phone. You sound like you're in a barrel.

>> Apologies for that. Can you hear me better? >> Yes, sir. Thank you. >> So, you make 3,800 a month with a federal agency and what?

>> Uh, yes. I have $8,400 left on a student loan and 2,300 on a consolidated loan

and we're about to face major public layoffs within the new year. Uh so my b my job definitely feels a bit less secure than it used to be. If I stay within my current department, the growth feels a bit capped and I don't really see a realistic path to buying a home or building wealth without decades of extreme frugality. >> What do you make? >> I'm torn between >> Oh, no. You told me what you make. 3,800 a month.

>> Exactly. Yeah. Gross. All right. What do you do with what do you do at the department?

>> I'm a program officer. So, I manage uh

the finances of the projects that we uh that we manage.

>> I see. Okay. And um you what's your

degree in?

>> I studied uh a bachelor of arts in law.

>> In law.

>> Yeah, exactly. like it's not a exactly a uh law degree in the sense of like I'm not entitled to write the bar after it.

It's more of like a bachelor's degree in legal studies. >> Gotcha. Okay. And what were you planning on doing with that?

>> So yeah, I'm currently torn between the

>> I mean when you when you were studying it, what was your plan?

>> Uh my plan was honestly to study law school. But the thing is I ended up working immediately after and

>> that was sort of my trajectory at that time. >> Gotcha. Are you married?

>> I'm not. No. >> Okay. All right. Cool.

>> So, are you thinking of just a whole new career path, Frank? Because you don't see growth in what you're currently doing?

>> Kind of. Yeah. So, if I stay in my current job, um the options are a bit limited in terms of career growth, especially considering the the cuts coming in the new year. >> Yeah. Um, additionally, uh, >> so what do you want to do?

>> So, yeah, my options right now is if I do a masters in business analytics or supply chain management within my >> What do you want to do?

>> That's a good question. I mean, right now I work a lot with I work a lot with data analytics and I've been really interested in it and I've become more and more passionate about about it taking on major projects within my team.

So I think I really want to gain more of an expertise within that field. Um if I

do study within my city, I can get a major uh subsidy to uh pay off my my master's

degree and I would pay a total of uh 5k around for the degree and it would also

open up the opportunity for private opportunities, private sector roles.

>> Yeah. Okay, cool. Uh what I would do I

would not go back to school full-time though. What I would do is go get a job at an entry level position in data analytics while you're studying to get your masters in data analytics.

>> Exactly. I would if I if if I'm not laid off within my job in the new year, I will maintain my job and um begin

studying the analytics. >> Yeah. And if you are laid off, go get a job. >> Exactly. Yeah. in the data analytics field and maybe they'll pay for your masters.

>> Yeah, you're right. >> Yeah, that's what I would do. But you don't go to school unless you're trying to put cuz degrees are not the currency

on which we trade.

>> Knowledge is the currency on which we trade. And so I can tell you we've got

uh 500 people that work for us in the data world, okay? data scientists, uh, platform, data security, data analytics,

all through Ramsey. Okay. It's a digital world we live in. And so, we've got a ton of what you're talking about working here right now. And I couldn't care less if they've got a degree. What I care is, do they know how to do it?

>> Exactly. >> And so, knowledge is what you trade on, not degrees. And so, getting a masters and going deeply into debt and not working while you're doing that or some kind of a plan like that's dumb. Don't do that in that world. I I would go look and get some of the some of the certificates u certifications like a Microsoft C or

two in the d in the data world and see if there's a couple others you can pick up to help you land. Now that actually will get your foot in the door uh because it indicates that you have the knowledge and it doesn't require a four-year degree or it doesn't require a master's degree to be a data scientist today. But you do have to have your brain working in the proper order and know how to how to work through those decision tree models. And so um

and you can do that. I I think that's very possible. But what I would do is just say, "Hey, this instability is my wakeup call. I landed in what I thought was a stable job where I didn't have to think much. I didn't have to work much." And turns out I do.

>> So >> yeah. And hold on the line, Frank. Christian will pick up and let's get them Ken's book. Um, find the find the work that you're wired to do, too.

That's good.

>> Yeah. As an adult, folks, here's what we don't want you to do, and we hear people do this all the time. A hard time comes along in my career patch, and so I

quit life and go back to school.

And there's a little bit of I want to hide from reality in that. There's a little bit of I may need some new tools and that's fine. But what I really want you to do is to take two steps back and say before I spend a bunch of money and a bunch of time going and getting in a degree in some area, I want to make really really sure it is what I want to do. And so a I want to go to work in that field >> even if it's entry level and doing the grunt work.

Okay?

and take some assessments like this uh finding the work you're wired to do assessment and we'll give it to you as our gift, okay? And you can buy it in our bookstore or on Amazon anywhere you want. It's just a few dollars and you can take the little assessment and 25 or 30 minutes. It changes everything and it'll give you some real insight into what you want to do.

So the you just don't want to throw a dart at the dart board blindfolded again and hope this all works out. >> Yep.

absolutely none of it.

So don't go do that again. Don't go to the expense and the trouble to do that again. So only go to school to get

knowledge to do what you're sure you want to do. >> Yeah. And I'd say also if the industry requires it too. >> Exactly. >> Because sometimes they don't, right? And people go get an MBA and they're like they probably didn't really even need to. They You know what I And so it's >> as if the MBA is a ticket to success.

It's not. >> Yeah. >> The knowledge you get while studying at a good MBA program will really help you in business. >> It's a masters in business. That's what an MBA is. But it doesn't guarantee success at all. And it doesn't guarantee you're going to like the company you're working for. And it doesn't guarantee anything. So uh you know just use

education to get knowledge not to get a

guaranteed path of success and happiness because it's not going to provide that.

Degrees do not make people successful.

Knowledge on the other hand helps make people successful. It's a lot easier to be successful when you're not dumb. You know a lot easier. So knowledge is a good thing.

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Brandon is in Atlanta. Hi, Brandon. How are you? >> Good. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Awesome. Yeah. So, quick question. My fiance and I just got engaged and we're looking to buy our first home and I was trying to understand the So, basically,

we have the ability to put 20% down on the home, but based off of, you know, all the the math behind the numbers I've seen, it seems more optimal to possibly put down less and have more liquid cash available to invest. call it maybe 10% down with having the extra cash to able to invest longterm in say VU or QQQ or

like a large cap ETF or index fund. But I wanted to get your thoughts on it. >> It's not optimal. Your formula left out something called risk >> and it left out something called good night's sleep when your home is steady.

We studied 10,167 millionaires.

89% of them were first generation rich, meaning they started where you are and became wealthy. The number of them that said we were we optimized our home mortgage by putting as little down as possible to invest and became a millionaire that way. The number of them out of 10,000 that said that was precisely zero.

No one does that in the real world.

That's a mathematical theory that doesn't hold water. And the reason it doesn't hold water is you have not risk adjusted mathematically because you're adding risk to your life. So the typical millionaire when they hit their first million dollar in net worth have an $800,000 paid for house and a 700 or $800,000 uh 401k and they were sitting

on a million and a half and their house is paid for. And that's the typical millionaire. Like it was stereotypical.

There were so many of them. It was crazy in that study in that piece of research.

So what you left out was the fact that when you have no mortgage or you've got a rapidly reducing mortgage, there's more peace in your life. Your career choices are better. Your relationships are enhanced. Your physical body doesn't carry the stress with it. And so you don't have stress related diseases. All of these things play into your finances.

And none of that was in your formula.

So looking at it, you're saying including the risk adjusted returns long-term, you're saying if you have the, you know, 30-year fixed mortgage, you're going to be a lot safer with that known variable and it continuing to decrease over time versus >> a 15year fixed rate mortgage. But yeah, getting rid of getting rid of the mortgage

>> as fast as possible. Yes.

>> Yeah. >> Going in my second question, which I I am a long time listener, so I assume you have an opinion on this, but wanted to kind of specify our exact situation. So,

we're touring some new construction.

They're town homes. They're smaller homes that we plan to be at for, call it

four to five years max. We're 26 now. We want to start having children in four or five years. Hopefully, we'd get something a little bigger by then if our income continues to increase, which is our plan.

What we have been seeing a lot of in our area is people doing a five-year ARM due to the fact that interest rates are currently relatively high with the assumption from the Fed that they'll, you know, slightly decrease over the next few years. If we're planning on only being the house for call it 5 years or less, would a 5-year arm ever make sense in that situation?

You don't know what you don't again just playing the safe route. You you have a you have a plan, but your plan is not going to unfold the way you think. One of two things is going to happen. It's going to you're going to get wealthy faster faster than you thought, or you're going to have some kind of blocker come up, some kind of problem come up that's going to slow down something, and you may end up in that house for a little while longer than you thought.

So, nothing works out exactly the way you think it's going to. And so um you put together things that are sustainable and that are not based that don't add extreme risk to your situation. So, in other words, what I've talked to over the years, Brandon, 35 years of doing this is I've talked to a number of couples who did something like you're talking about and then they think the arm is coming up and adjusted and then they had a child that had some needs and they weren't able to continue with their income increases for a period of time because they had to take care of the kids' needs and they got stuck and then they get hammered.

the mother mayi game because they move forward without permission if you remember that old >> and Brandon let me encourage you I mean every you you're obviously a wellthoughtout guy you're trying to look at the path of least resistance in your head I hear what you're doing you know you're looking at this angle but I just want to encourage you Brandon what's going to make you guys win with money it's you guys it's not these like small we're going to finagle the system and get this and that. I'm not kidding. If you just do really boring common sense stuff with money, live on less than you make.

Don't carry debt. Invest in the invest in your retirement. Pay off your house early. And you guys make an insane income.

You're all you have to do. And so you don't have to try and shave a half a point here. >> Yeah. So this optimize a quarter of a point there.

>> Yeah. So Ramsay is I mean like our principles and what we talk about on the show because you've listened. It's pretty boring to guys like you. There's other podcasters out there and they're finagling this and this and okay, well, you can get the spread here and they're doing this.

I mean, but the amount of mental calories and how it actually ends up really truly working long term doesn't end up like that. And so people that follow this plan while boring, right? It's not exciting.

The amount of peace you're solving for peace. This is what it is. And when you do that and you do common sense things and you don't try to make it all complic complicated, it's a it's an enjoyable life. It really is. You're obviously >> I hear you. I hear what you're what you're saying and what you're doing and I and I get it and I think there's like the math nerds out there and they love this stuff, but I'm telling you people that win with money long term, it it's

them that they're the reason they win.

It's not this system that you kind of rig here or there. >> Yeah. To verify that, Rachel Brandon, you're you're obviously brilliant. I mean, the the questions, the way you formed the way you even the way you even formed your sentences, you actually know what you're talking about, which is rare.

Sometimes I get people asking these questions that you're asking and they don't know what they're actually saying. They they just heard it on TikTok. But you actually know what you're talking about >> and that's going to work against you if you're not real careful.

>> So do that. So, I'll give you another example of what Rachel's talking about, Brandon, in the data because what we keep following is the data of what actually works, not the theory of a think tank math, >> right? >> It's not math think tank, right?

>> Okay. So, here's the data.

>> The people that end up with a million dollars in their 401k

>> did not pick on average did not pick the best possible mutual funds.

They picked a subpar mutual fund. There were plenty of funds that outperformed what they picked. Now, they didn't pick the bottom 20%. But they didn't pick necessarily the top 20% of funds out there. >> They were somewhere around that 80 percentile. And so, I'm looking at that going, "You missed it. You missed it." Because I'm a math nerd like him, right?

And what we what the data says, and this is is that what what they find is is

that what they did do is exactly what you're talking about. They weren't that great at picking their the right fund.

>> But what they did do was they never missed a month.

>> Consistency. Yeah.

>> For ever.

No matter what, they put money in their 401k every stinking month. Prom dress,

transmission goes out, kids sick, dogs

got cancer. Every month they put money

in. Every month >> markets up, markets down. >> What they didn't underperform in was consistency. >> Yeah. >> They overindexed on consistency and they underindexed on fund choice. And that's

an example of what you're talking about. They really weren't that >> mathematically savvy or or mutual fund savvy. They just were consistent >> versus the amount of people that don't >> do anything. and they and they have theories of what they may want to do, but they never >> or they try this little thing and then they try this other little thing and then they try this and they're always scheming and scamming trying to cut a half.

>> Yeah. And it's the same thing about paying off the house. We get that call all the time of people have, you know, $80,000 left on their mortgage and they got 90,000 sitting in some fund over here and they're like, "Yeah, but I could be making x amount." And the amount of people we've had at live events, people here, I mean that we're around that we asked the question, those of you that paid off your house, raise your hand.

>> It's yeah there I mean there's a lot of them and we say okay keep your hand up if you regretted it.

>> Who regretted paying off their house?

>> None. >> None. Never. Zero. >> Never. So again that's not in a formula but I'm telling you like when you solve for peace as Dr. John Deloney says with your money that is worth it. That's worth the small percentage point here or there because you have peace and you sleep good at night and you have a happy family and a wonderful new marriage and little babies and it's great. And it's great. >> It's okay to wait a year after marriage to buy a house, too. By the way,

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and ebooks. Go to ramseysolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Talia is with us in Orlando. Hey Talia, what's up?

>> Hi. Hey, I hope you guys are doing well.

Um, >> better than we deserve. Merry Christmas to you. >> Likewise. Likewise. Um, I'm calling cuz me and my fiance are in a transi, a very big transitional period in our lives right now where our gift of having no rent with living with family is coming to a close very soon. Um, he just got

another job that'll have an increase in uh, pay, but we also are still working on Baby Step 2, which also just got a little knockup because of the good old IRS. So, I'm just curious on how we should plan to move forward with Gazelle Intensity cuz now we're on the same page and I'm just not quite sure how to how to navigate this this tricky in between stage. >> When's the wedding?

>> Um, to be determined. We haven't set a

date yet, actually.

>> There's not there's not a we until we're married. >> Okay, fair enough. For sure.

>> You don't pay his debt, he doesn't pay yours.

>> Yes, sir. I agree. You can get in all kinds of trouble with that and you don't want to get there. It'll be a relational nightmare, too. >> How much that do you guys have, each of you? >> What's the point in delaying if you're living together anyway? Why don't you just get married?

>> I I'd like to. I guess it's just I don't feel we have the money for it right now.

>> Yeah. It doesn't cost $50.

>> You're right about that, too. I suppose I'm just I part of a Latin family and so

I'd always wanted to do it big and >> yeah but you're broke and you don't have a place to live so that's not really an option. >> You're not wrong. You are continually you're being very agreeable.

She's like yes. Yes. Yes.

>> I want you to have a big party after you get out of debt and celebrate your marriage that happened two years ago.

>> That's fair. And and I think that's definitely worth a consideration because

here's the thing. When two horse when two horses lean into the harness together, you can pull a lot more weight than two individuals are pulling

>> because of synergy and this agreed thing. We combine our incomes, we combine our efforts, we combine our spirits, we combine everything. And you can only do that without a huge risk when you're married. And so, um, we

strongly recommend and the data backs this up, by the way. So, um, yeah, to to

go ahead and get married. Lots and lots of couples in lots of generations just get married and didn't have a big party and didn't have a, you know, $78,000 wedding. And so, um, >> but the advantage, the marriage advantage on the other side from a from a financial, um, a family aspect, um,

emotional, I mean, all of it. >> So, if we did that, what is your income?

What's his income?

>> Um, his income is about 40,000. It

should be closer to 50, um, since he just got this new job. Great. and I'm currently at 54.

>> Okay, so you got 104. That's great. How old are y'all?

>> Um I'm 30 and he's 33.

>> Excellent. Cool. All right. And how much debt do you have?

>> Um I I've been doing everything combined in my head. >> That's fine. Combined. We're going to pretend we're going to pretend you get married this weekend. Merry Christmas.

Okay. And so now >> Wednesday's anniversary is on on Friday.

So it's a great it's a great time to get married. I'll say that. I'll say that. Christmas. Anyway, the uh uh yeah, Rachel will send you a gift if you get married Friday. So, the uh uh anyway, the the the debt is how much it combined? >> 112 combined. And now that we're getting gazelle intense, we're hoping to knock more of it out, but we're currently sitting at completed 39K

>> already. Good. Okay. Yes, sir. And what was the IRS hiccup?

>> Um the hiccup was filing 2024 late. um

in addition to being in the process of paying off 2023 cuz he was an independent contractor and that >> is that in the 112?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay, cool. All right. And what do you uh uh what are you anticipating rent being? Have you been out and looked for the cheapest thing possible? A garage apartment out back of a rich old lady's house and you clean her gutters and mow her grass and it costs almost nothing to live there. >> Yeah, I haven't had too much luck with that yet, but the ballpark we're seeing is about 2K in our area.

>> Yeah. if we're looking for a bare minimum. >> Yeah. And I think you can get off of that. You may need you may need to move out of town a little bit further to get off of that, but it's doable. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. >> Orlando is expensive, though. It's a wonderful town, but it's high. Okay. And um so yeah, but you know, the thing is this, whatever we're paying in rent is taking away from these other goals mathematically. We know that.

>> Okay. >> So, we want to pay as little in rent as possible so that we get out of the debt so we can have the emergency fund so we can buy a house. Mhm.

>> And the le least we pay in rent the better. But yeah, so what I'm going to do is rent something that is um right on

the edge of uncomfortable.

>> Okay. >> Like no like not really proud to have friends over.

>> Okay. >> Not scared to have friends over, but not proud. Okay. >> Understood. >> Not necessarily shooting up and down the street. I don't want Dodge City. Okay.

But the uh but but I do I not trying to impress anybody with what I'm renting.

For God's sakes, >> I hear you. The the lights will turn on, but maybe the AC doesn't work all the time. >> Well, no, I want the AC to work. You're in Florida.

For God's sakes, the AC needs to work. But the No, I'm talking about it just doesn't need to be super fancy with the skylight, the jacuzzi, and the pickle ball courts. Okay? So, we don't need any of that crap.

What we need to do is get out of debt and a place to live and and celebrate our new marriage. And so, our our first year of marriage. And so, that that's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes. And I think you're going to be just fine if you do that and get on a beans and rice rice and beans budget.

>> I agree. Now tell me this cuz I need first laughs in security to find one of these cheaper places assuming it's actually not somebody's uh back back door um >> uh extra bedroom. So do we pause on baby

step two to save for that?

>> Yes. And and but but I but but before I say for it, I would go find the actual place, not go on not go on theory of what I think is going to happen.

>> Cuz if you might find an actual place that doesn't have both first and last, >> okay? >> There are they're out there. There are people that want to rent places right now. >> Okay? >> And there's a saying in the real estate business, if someone comes to look at your piece of real estate in December, they're a serious candidate.

>> Okay? >> Tire kickers are not out looking at open houses on December.

Guess my odds are good. Hopefully, we'll we'll >> Well, they're going to they're going to treat you like you're a serious customer because you are.

>> Yes. >> Yeah, >> definitely. >> Yeah. >> So, >> okay. So, you're going you're going to be able to you're going to be able to talk him into popping you're going to be able to talk him into getting married?

>> Yeah, I I think so. No, no, no. We've been together for for eight years already. So, I'm the one that's holding everything up. >> Yeah. It's time to paint or get off the ladder. Yeah. Really?

>> Yeah. >> Yes, sir.

>> You're awesome. You're fun to talk to.

She's like, "Listen, I'm Latin. I I want a big party and I'm Hey, I'm a hillbilly. I want a big party. I don't disagree with that. Whatever. That's not an ethnic thing. That's a party thing." >> So, I love it. Good for you. She's fun.

She's fun. They're going to do great.

And yeah, it's just time to get real serious about all this stuff. Hang on.

We're going to give you uh every dollar and sign you up for that as our wedding gift. Okay. >> Yeah. And for people listening to kind of circle back on one of those points, even though Talia, I don't wish this upon you.

I don't think it's going to happen in your situation, but we do see couples and they they combine it and then it's the ex- fiance we get the call about, you know, two years later >> without being married. >> Without being married, um, you know, and then there's an ex- fiance in the picture two years later for something and they've >> used all their hard-earned money to clean up his IRS debt. You know what I mean? So, there is something very true about the separation until you're married because you have no legal protection at all.

um, yeah, there's big on that. So those of you listening, I don't think Talia, I think you guys will. I think you've been together eight years, all the things. That's wonderful.

And I think it'll happen for you guys. But for people listening, >> even if you are engaged, there are such a thing as an ex fiance and you spend a lot of your hardearned money paying off his smallest debt because his happened to be the smallest and the debt snowball when you combine them >> and your money goes to, you know, his debt. And then you break up and you're like, man, that was 12K that could have been going to mine, you know. So, >> and if you get married on Friday, you'll be getting married on Rachel Cruz and Winston's anniversary.

>> That's right. December 19. >> That's a big deal. You can you can just say that.

>> I'm telling you though, a winter wedding, it's underrated. Everyone wants the summer and the spring. A holiday wedding, it's so fun.

>> And the uh >> look, we got the wedding gifts kind of got combined with the >> Christmas gifts. No, that didn't happen, did it? >> I don't think so. We left y'all on We left the family on Christmas and went on honeymoon. >> No, I was talking about the wedding gifts. >> Oh, >> your wedding gift? Yes.

>> No, no, no, no. >> Say you pay for my wedding. So, thank you for that. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you.

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Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Kristen in Ohio. How should I deal with the issue of Christmas gifts for teachers? I have four children who have multiple teachers for physical education and music plus their cafeteria workers, teachers, support staff, uh I mean all of it. So I understand and appreciate that they are hardworking professionals, but we're still on baby step three. Is it okay to skip this until we're in better financial terms for our family? Um yeah,

I mean I would say for a year or so. I mean I still think appreciation is wonderful and I still think honestly a lot of people in that position I'm like yes, nice teacher gifts. That is one thing I prioritize on the other side of baby step three because I very very much

really >> appreciate our teachers. Oh, I love them. Yeah, I >> I love them and appreciate them. I've never given any of them a gift. >> Well, you haven't. Mom did, girl.

>> Did she really? Did she really? >> Yes. Yes.

>> I had no idea. I I I'm generous. I like giving gifts, but that just wasn't on my list. I mean, I I like giving the garbage man a bunch of money. I like doing that. I a big tip at Christmas time because you take out the garbage.

Yes. Yeah, they got a whole interact with the teachers now. >> I do that. That one I did. >> I love giving teachers nice gifts cuz Yes. >> Okay, that's cool. I like the teachers.

I love them. I'm happy with them. Yeah, >> that's interesting. >> Okay, >> I guess I guess I'm the I'm so old it's like an apple.

>> No, I just think you were teaching FPU classes at the Holiday Inn. Mom was >> raising kids in elementary school. I think that was >> that's it. >> Yeah, I I would not that would not be a huge guilt trip thing for me.

it would just be. But for sure, >> when you have the opportunity to, it's great. And I and honestly, people in this position, yes, do they love a nice gift? Absolutely.

and some cookies that you've made. I mean, the at least it's the recognition, honestly, that >> a nice letter.

>> Yes. >> Clearly stating what you have appreciated is worth more than $20. And

then something homemade or something, you know. >> Definitely make some cookies. Definitely make some cookies. >> Um, >> that's it though. I mean that's I >> I'm having like a flashback childhood memory. Do you I remember this. You probably don't. I remember in the third grade Mrs. White >> remember Mrs. White >> her Christmas gift >> was your book financial peace. I think

we gave your book. >> That was that was your mother. I wouldn't have done that. >> Christmas gift.

>> I definitely didn't do that. That's so much ego. I couldn't do that. Here's my book. Yeah. That no one has yet read. No one knows who we are and no one cares about. marketing. >> If you need something to light the fire in the fireplace tonight, you can use this paper. >> Yeah. I don't No, that's gross.

>> I do. I do. >> At least your mother was proud of it. Oh my gosh.

>> Laura is in Jacksonville, Florida. Help us, Laura. What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. How are you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so my question is, my husband and I

received our escrow analysis today and we are going to be short $2,400.

So we either can pay that upfront or have it rolled into our payment. And I'm wondering what is the best thing to do?

>> First and foremost, do a full audit on the thing because most of those are calculated poorly.

So what happened with ours was our we just got our mortgage literally last November. So when we had it for a year, they underestimated our property taxes number one. And then number two, we forgot to file for our Florida homestead exemption.

So we paid property taxes on the full value of our home.

>> Okay. >> All right. So you have filed for that now. Have the property taxes come down?

>> Yes. So, we we have the homestead exemption in place for 2026, but they don't print the tax bill.

>> Yeah. >> Until October.

>> Yeah. But the um >> So, >> wait a minute. So, so no, they can calculate it. Exactly.

>> I called them this morning and they told me they couldn't.

>> They have a valuation on the house.

There's a tax rate on the valuation.

>> A sixth grader can calculate it.

>> I calculated it. I had it already. I have it on a spreadsheet right in front of me.

>> And they told me that unless I could provide them with an updated tax bill, they went by the current tax bill.

>> Oh, you're talking about the idiots at the mortgage company, not the not the tax people. >> Correct. The mortgage.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> All right. Now, that makes sense. Okay.

So, um,

>> so my husband and I are in Baby Step, too, but in January, I get three paychecks plus a bonus. So, I have we have the money to pay the shortage.

>> Yeah. The problem is it's going to be an overage after you pay the shortage.

>> It is going to be Yes. And that was one of the things I talked to my husband about was what do we do? Do we pay the shortage up front? >> No, I wouldn't pay it up front. It's like pay prepaying it and putting it in a savings account at the mortgage company. Then they're going to give it back to you with no interest. So, I'm going to pay it as slowly as possible because it's still wrong.

>> It is. Yes. So like they they calculated our new payment without the shortage.

Our payment is going to go up $150 no matter what because what their estimate on the property taxes was versus what our actual property tax bill they received. >> I think my answer is I want to talk to your supervisor.

I want get me to someone who knows how to think and not answer without thinking

>> cuz your answer is not acceptable to me.

You want me to overpay escrow now and so

now there's going to be an overage and you people are going to owe me. So I don't like saving money at no interest with the mortgage company that because you can't do math. So let me talk to your supervisor. I'm going to become a problem for them.

>> Got it. >> God, they're dumb.

>> Oh, that's so aggravating. Most escro accounts are screwed up. That's what's so aggravating. Um but but because it's

really not hard. It is 111 12th of the actual tax and 1 12th of the actual

insurance bill and we should have both of those in front of us and that's what the thing ought to be running on. Now are you in the hole from last year? Did they come up short last year?

>> Yeah. So the mortgage company estimated our property taxes to be 3500 and it's a

new build home. So they had they they said they didn't have anything to go off of. They estimated it to be $3,500.

Our actual property tax bill without the homestead in place was $5,300.

>> So, you did pay that?

>> We did. >> And that doesn't get refunded. It just doesn't get charged next year.

>> Well, they >> you're not going to get that money back. That money's gone, right?

>> Yeah. Correct. So, we would be paying the shortage. >> Yeah. That created the shortage. And I don't mind paying that shortage because that's an actual shortage. What I don't want is an adjusted payment going forward based on wrong numbers.

>> Yes. And that's where part of my problem is. >> Yeah. That's the one where I'm going to talk to the supervisor.

>> The actual shortage. Let's pretend your payment was recalculated for January accurately from January on. Okay. Whatever shortage there is up to that point. Yeah. Just pay that.

>> Okay. >> But don't wrap it into the payment. You're saying? >> Yeah. Don't wrap it into the payment.

and then have the proper payment going forward. That's the one I'm talking to the supervisor because I want the payment properly calculated. I have the tax bill in front of me. I have the insurance bill in front of me. Here's actually what escrow should be.

>> And when you properly calculate that, that's the payment I want in January.

And until you can tell me that's going to be the payment, I'm going to continue to ask for whoever's on the phone supervisor until I get to the president of the freaking mortgage company.

find somebody over there that can add cuz it's real simp because I'm not trying to create a shortage and I'm not trying to live off of you. I'm going to write a check for the existing shortage but I don't want to create an overage next year because you guys didn't do the math right. You didn't do it right last time either.

Yeah. Because even in a new build you can calculate property taxes closer than

50 closer than 2000 50% off.

Unbelievable. Wow.

Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Yeah, that no no nope nope.

Yeah. So, um

it it is not a bad idea to jump online

if you have a mortgage once a year and check and make sure they're having the right amount, you know, right amount in your house payment for one 12th of your insurance and one 12th of your taxes because truthfully, this is what you deal with at the other end. It's the It's the lowest common denominator answering the phone over there. And you know, apparently they

studied something other than math in college or no, they probably didn't make that anyway in 8th grade or wherever it was that they missed the lesson. But yeah, it's not hard, but it seems to be

hard.

Heat.

Heat.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Lloyd is in Seattle.

Hi, Lloyd. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm well. How about yourself?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, uh, I make about $200,000 a year and

my family and I are living paycheck to paycheck. We're on baby step two. And I'm just wondering if there's anything I can do to help jumpstart our process of paying off our debt.

>> Where do you think all that money is going? >> Uh, it's all payments. It's all consumer debt. And, uh, it's uh, it's all a bit

overwhelming. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, if you know what I mean. So, >> So, okay. So, how much debt do you have?

Not counting your house. Uh about $100,000. >> Okay. And what's that on?

>> Uh two car payments. >> How much is the first car? How much do you owe on the first car?

>> Uh 2 20,000.

>> Mhm. What do you owe on the second car?

>> 30,000. >> Okay. And what's the other 50?

>> Uh it's credit cards and personal loans.

>> Okay. So 50,000 in credit cards and personal loans. >> Was that all lifestyle, Lloyd, or did something happen that you guys had to take out a loan for? It >> was all lifestyle. We purchased a house last year and we uh got a little in over our heads with the with the renovations and >> decided it was better to follow through on it than to live in a hash half finishedish house.

>> Okay. So, it's finished now.

>> Close to it. I've got one more bathroom I got to finish. It's about halfway through the remodel. >> Okay. And uh how much is your house payment?

>> 4,500 a month.

>> What's your take-home pay?

Uh, I make about uh 8,000 per month

without bonuses, but with bonuses, it can be upwards of 14,000 per month.

>> Okay. >> It's a big swing. >> Let's see. Well, I mean, to get to get to 200, you have to be at 14.

>> Yeah. Well, I'm I'm on track to make uh

200 this year >> uh before taxes, and that's with the bonuses. My bonuses are quarterly uh and they're based on how uh how I deal at work, obviously. Mhm. Mhm.

>> Yeah. Because if it's if it's a month, >> you got a large chunk of your income that comes quarterly. >> Wow. >> Yes. >> That makes a cash flow management tough.

>> Mhm. >> It does. Yeah. >> That's why it feels like it's paycheck to paycheck on. You're not, you know, you're trying to live more like on 130

>> and then 70 is bonused.

>> Yeah. I mean, if I make my bonus, we feel more than comfortable making all our payments. But if I don't make bonus, then it's it's we're in the red.

>> Yeah. Yeah. If you could get down to living and making your payments on your base and then when bonus comes in it clears debt, that would work.

>> Yeah. My plan was to get rid of one of our cars cuz I I have a company vehicle I drive, but I'm actually they're pulling my company vehicle and giving me a gas card and a stipen instead. So now I have to start using my personal vehicle again to commute. Uh so going down to one family vehicle is kind of out of the question at this point. >> Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. And how

much are you putting in your 401k?

>> None.

>> How much of a refund, tax refund did you get? >> Uh, well, last year I think it was about$7,000. This year I'm hoping it'll be about the same. We had a kid last year. We're going to have another kid this year. >> Um, and we also bought a house last year. So that also helps us a little bit on our >> So you're o So you're overwithholding,

>> correct? >> About 600 bucks. 600 bucks a month.

>> Yeah, I guess. Yeah. when I was filling out my paperwork, it's all it's all a bit confusing. And when my wife stopped working with our first kid, I was trying to figure out how to make it so we didn't end up owing.

So, I I actually I think I put I think I have them withhold an extra 300 per paycheck just to make sure I don't end up owing at the end of the year.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. That's 7,000 a year by the way.

Right. Mhm. >> Yeah, that's what it turns out. So, I mean, you're over withholding and then you get it all back with no interest. So, no, I think we'll stop that. Um, and

that'll that'll help some. Uh,

>> I mean, half of this is your cars, like what you're saying, Lloyd. I just wonder if um >> Yeah, I mean, that that's really what I wanted to do. We were on track. I mean, we're underwater on both vehicles. Uh, we have to pay off at least 4 to 5,000 on either vehicle to be able to sell them uh without selling private sale,

>> which is obviously difficult. I'd like to be able to just go take it in and have a dealership take it off my hands.

>> Yeah. But difficult is what you've got right now. That's your whole life is difficult. >> This is true. >> So, we need to do some things that are difficult, like never going out to eat again and never going on vacation. And I don't know what the deal is with that bathroom, but it needs to be either finished in the next 30 days or you need to pull off of it and start getting these bills paid cuz you guys you guys have got to tighten up. Y'all have been kind of living a little sloppy.

>> Yeah. 50 grand and >> Yeah. All of it. Yeah. >> More than more than a little sloppy. That's for sure. >> Well, but I mean even if you're just a little sloppy with your income with these debts, >> you are paycheck to paycheck.

>> Yeah. Yeah, >> cuz your $4,500 house payment is outrageously high >> on your base.

>> If you don't make if you don't if you don't make bonus, this house is insane.

>> Yeah. >> But if you make bonus, you're fine.

>> I mean, 4,500 as a percentage of 14,000 a month is okay, but not of 8,000.

>> That's over 50% of your take-home pay then. We can't. >> Do you guys have good um monthly planning, Lloyd? That with the bonus, like I'm just wondering to put you guys like from a budget standpoint that there's an account where the bonuses come in and you're able to use most of that for debt, but it's also there as a cushion. It's like the highs and lows is what we call it, a fund that that's able to kind of sustain some of this monthly

um the monthly expenses. Like I'm just trying to get as consistent for you guys as possible. And sometimes having an extra account where there's money in there that you're that you guys have already planned out throughout the year, you know what I mean? That you can kind of pull from just to and again low lifestyle.

It's not for going out to eat and all of it. But I'm just trying to think from a I just I don't know. I could imagine monthto monthth it feeling like this and then you're waiting on that bonus check.

>> Here's the theory that I want to leave you with. The the thesis better than theory. The thesis I want to leave you with, the more radical you get in your

reaction to this situation, the faster you're going to be out of it.

>> Can we agree that I need to get rid of the cars somehow? >> I I I think we can agree with that, but and move way down in car. That'd be a radical move. I don't want you beat one car, but you know, so okay, I borrow 5,000 from the credit union. Uh, I borrowed 12,000 from the credit union.

Instead of instead of 30,000, I got a $7,000 car >> and a $5,000 hole from the last car that I'm paying out of. I'd rather have 12 than 30. And that's that's moving that's moving out of that 30. Whatever. Let's just work our way down this thing and say, "All right, what radical things can

we do to shock this family system

temporarily and get this math moving in our direction so we can see a light at the end of the tunnel because it feels like we're kind of stuck like a rat in the wheel by the mediocrity, >> the mediocre handling of things." And so what I want to do is get extreme over here, extreme over here, extreme over here as a one or a two-year plan so that

I get rid of all of this. And then we've got the renovations of the house in the rearview mirror. And we've got no payments. We have an emergency fund.

Then we can do a lot of stuff with this quarterly bonus stuff coming in and out.

And you got a lot of wiggle room. And you can start your 401k and start building some wealth. But you feel really stuck right now. And so what I'm going to do is throw dynamite in the middle of this thing, blow it up.

Let's create some chaos and >> and shock the system of the family. And I and we always laugh and say, "Sell so much stuff the kids think they're next." And we're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless we're working there. And we're not going on vacation. And we're going to be on a written plan.

And we're going to make an adventure out of this. And we're going to put a piece of plywood across that bathroom for right now. And we're going to use the rest of the house. It's $4,500. Screw it. and we're going to get this car sold and moved down and we're going to be radical.

Then you'll be okay.

Changing it up a little, boys and girls.

Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is at my right.

To my left is Dr. Les Parrot, number one bestselling author. And to my far left, iconic number one bestselling author, uh, Dr. Gary Chapman, who wrote the absolute perennial bestseller, uh, five, the five love languages that most of you have learned and heard and used in your marriages. And if you didn't, you should have. Uh, some 20 million of those have sold. and uh my friend Les and Dr.

Chapman have teamed up to do a brand new book called The Love Language That Matters Most. Welcome, gentlemen. Good to have you. >> Thanks. Good to be here. >> Thank you. >> So, what is the love language that matters most? >> It's yours. >> Yeah. Um Thank you, Les.

I'm going I'm going to tell my wife that tonight >> right now. That's the one that matters.

Well, it the love language that matters the most is the love language of your partner of your spouse or your child or whoever it is that you're in front of that you want to express love. And for the longest time, Gary's incredible book, by the way, isn't that amazing? 20 million. That's why I want I wanted to help him. I want to come alongside he needed he needed a lift. Huh.

>> And uh but you know, so many times we read that book and we go, "Okay, they're now love me that way." Right? Now you know how to love me. And this is kind of turning the tables and helping us focus >> like you missed the point. >> Yeah. >> I remember I took the DISC, remember that thing? A thousand years ago, like 40 years ago. I came home and showed it to my wife and she read it and she goes, "Yeah, that's what's wrong with you.

It's the same thing, right? Same thing.

I love it. This is great, guys. And of course, Les, you're the master of assessments. >> You put together some of the best assessments out there, Simbus and several others that have gone uh worldwide bestselling assessing different things.

And you guys have done an assessment to go with this. >> We have a premium assessment. This is one of Gary's biggest dreams for the longest time. Right, Gary?

To >> Yeah, absolutely. We uh you know, we have had a free assessment for for determining the five love languages. >> Call it a quiz. It took >> a quiz.

A quiz. And uh >> and 55 million people have taken the free quiz. Whoa. >> And I told my publisher we should have been charging a dollar a piece, you know, >> for real, >> minimum.

But uh but this one we're dealing with things we don't deal with in the original book. Uh two things primarily.

interfaces with the love languages. And

I mentioned dialects in the original book, but I didn't give any of the dialects, but in this premium assessment, you find out which dialect

or dialects within the language are most important to you. And the same thing true with your personality. And so if the husband and wife both take the premium assessment, which we're hoping that's the ideal, man, they're going to have valuable information on how to more effectively communicate love to the person >> because you can sometimes try to speak the other person's love language and still not fill up their love tank because you don't quite hit >> the nuances of for instance giftgiving.

Exactly. >> Okay. As you know, there's a lot of different ways you can do that. Or service.

There's a lot of different ways that can manifest and that's what you mean by dialect. >> That's right. Yeah. Let's dive into that because less you were sharing with me earlier uh you and Lesie obviously Leslie's on this book as well her love language primary love language is words of affirmation yet you were giving her the wrong dialect explain that words of affirmation meant encouraging her and I so I became a walking hallmark card I was just like you can do it and man yeah you'd be great at that and anything that would come up and it turns out that was putting all kinds of pressure on her to do things she didn't even want to do And uh what we learned in the research was her real dialect within words of affirmation is compliments.

So if I could say, "Oh my goodness, I saw you interacting with our son John and that was amazing piece of parenting that you did." That fills up her love tank.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And for some people though, their love language is words of affirmation and they want encouragement.

that that is their dialect. It's just like, you know, I don't know if you've ever noticed this, Dave, but if you go to Boston, they don't sound like you do up there. You know, they different dialect.

So, we have different dialects in our love language. >> Yeah. I've noticed that people hang around together sound alike, too. Most those people have an accent.

>> That's right. >> So, uh I got two of the best marriage minds and researchers on the planet sitting beside me. We know that money is the number one reason for divorce or at least it man something is manifesting itself as money issues as the number one

reason for divorce. How can couples use this book to change the way they communicate about money?

>> Great question, Gary. >> Well, I think that one of the things is if they feel loved significantly, if that love tank is full, they'll be able to talk about money much more freely than they could talk about it if they don't feel loved by the person.

>> Not threatened. That's right. It creates a totally different atmosphere in which to discuss financial issues.

>> That makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of sense. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's that emotional safety is what allows you to talk about the finances without spinning out of control, right?

Because you know you're accepted. If you're loved, then you can process it and communicate it. It really does come down to communication. If you've not read the five love languages,

um you need to folks. uh that it's a it's a standard in in the I mean you do 20 million of anything it's a standard right and and um it sets you up then to

understand the other person and that's the whole purpose of this book is to redirect it and go not intake but outgo

>> yeah and and that's another way of saying empathy right if we can put ourselves in the other person's shoes and accurately meet their needs actually fill up their love tank you know the love tank is such a great metaphor because it's so easy to just ask your your partner, hey, how full is your love tank right now? Scale of 1 to 10. It's just an easy thing to do and they'll tell you. Ask Sharon tonight. When was the last time you asked her? But it's been a while, Dave, hasn't it?

>> No, let me tell you. My wife is an introvert and so when I know that her tank in general is when she's had too many people. >> Yeah. >> And we've she needs she needs some space, right?

>> And that that refills her tank in general. That's not a love language, but that's just an introvert >> extrovert. But you know, that's a brings up something pretty cool that we did in this book.

>> So words of affirmation if uh you're an extrovert you want to be affirmed in front of other people and if it's gifts bring them in front of other people make it a big celebration. If you're an introvert oh please don't embarrass me.

Right? That >> oneonone I've got to ask a followup with you two in the room. Okay, so we've got a lot of people that are in baby step two, which for us it's you're taking your smallest debts to your largest debts. And it is gazelle intense.

Dave says rice and beans, beans and rice. You know the drill. If one of their spouses love language is gifts, >> and we're telling you, you're not doing any gifts until you get out of this thing. What advice would you give to that other spouse who they, you know, they're trying to be disciplined.

Yeah. >> But yet that love tank may be a little empty because they can't give gifts. What do they do, Gary? >> I would say the gifts do not have to involve money. >> Okay. I remember a man, he said, "I was taking a walk. I knew her language is gifts. I saw a bird feather. I picked it

up and brushed it off. And when I got home, I said, "Honey, when I was walking, I found this bird feather, and I want to give it to you because it reminded me that you are the wind beneath my wings." And she said, "Oh, that is so sweet.

That is so corny.

>> Might be all you can do though. It works, right?

>> Marriage saved by a bird feather. I'm just saying that is great. That that that would Yeah, it's it is uh symbolic

>> that the the thought.

>> Yes. >> The old the old saying around Christmas time. We always say the thought that counts, right? >> And and it truly is. It's uh >> uh there was a guy we did a thousand years ago. You guys probably remember the book writing letters to your family

>> treasure something I think it was called and um and each year and he sold a box

and you put these letters in a box each year but it was nothing more than affirmation and just other things in the letters but it was again it was a type of gift giving that didn't cost a lot of money but it elicits a lot of tears of joy. Yeah. >> Well and for some people that is their dialect when it comes to gifts. It's they don't want something extravagant.

I don't want an iPhone. I don't want a big fancy dinner. I just want something sentimental. Write me a poem.

Give me a card. Dr. Gary Chapman, honored to have you in our studio. Proud to say I now know you.

I've admired you for years and love the work you do.

The five love languages. The new book with Gary Chapman and Les and Leslie Parrot. Uh comes out the love language that matters most along with the premium assessment be out after the first of the year. Be sure you're looking for it.

Absolutely incredible stuff. Thanks, gentlemen. Good to be with you. >> Thank you.

Gabby is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Gabby.

How are you? >> Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. I'm good. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my question is whether my husband and I should pull some money from our emergency fund in order to buy a gun.

35 years of doing this. That's the first time I've heard that question.

>> What is the emer how would a gun be an emergency? >> Yeah. Um I don't necessarily think it is, but my husband does. So, we had a

weird situation that happened just a couple of days ago where it was like 11:00 at night and some guy started banging on our door and he was we talked to him through the Ring camera and he was saying that somebody stole his phone and that it was GPS pinging to our address and then it was probably 45 minutes to an hour before he actually left. uh like he was looking around our property and then he was sitting in his car just like sitting in front of our house waiting. It was very strange.

>> Why did it take the police that long to get there if you had a property invasion going on? >> I I'm not really sure. They um said that

he al like they we did call the police.

They said that he had also called them about the phone and I guess they decided it wasn't an emergency. He wasn't He didn't seem like he was trying to break into the house. He was just looking around on our yard. Yeah. So, you're going to shoot him?

>> Well, my husband, I think, is concerned that if he did come back and like did

decide like he was just not going to shoot him, he was just going to break into our house >> instead of tell the cops to come.

>> Yeah. Well, >> listen, listen. Let me just tell you.

Let me let me let me stop. Okay. I I carry a gun. I'm a gun I'm a gun guy.

Okay. >> But there's no cases like that that I'm going to shoot somebody.

>> Yeah. We just escalated from a lost cell phone to somebody dead on your front porch, >> right? >> No, this is not okay. That's not a It's not the way to solve the problem.

>> Yeah. >> Um the only reason you would shoot someone is if they're inside your home about to harm your family.

>> Not banging on your door, not scaring you, not all of that. You don't go out in the front yard and wave your gun around because he's sitting in your driveway. You call the cops six times and say, "Get your butt over here. One of us is in danger, and I'm not sure which one it is, but you got you jack the police up and let them do their job." >> But you don't wander out in the front yard, you'll get shot.

>> Yeah. I think he's just concerned that if something were like worse were to happen and somebody were to break into our house, he's like, "If if we don't have it now, we're not going to be able we're not going to want to wait until something worse happens." I guess is where he's coming from. But I'm I'm with you. I I really What is your what is your household income?

>> Um, so annual is about 85,000, but our

monthly income during the winter a lot it's pretty heavily um it's higher in the summer. So during the winter we make about $4 to $5,000 a month.

>> Okay. All right. Um

because I don't like his attitude about

handling a firearm. I'm not going to tell you to buy a gun >> because I think you're going to get yourself in uh in a lifetime of hurt if

you handle these situations with a firearm. >> Uh you don't use a firearm unless someone is about to die.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. That's you just don't I mean it's not that's not what that's for. And he's this guy on the Ring doorbell thing is not even close to that.

This is people like that that when they get shot that's when you go to jail, >> right? >> That's not or you spend a million dollars trying to not go to jail >> and because you weren't even defending yourself. You just got spooked or you thought you were a BA or something. And so don't don't do that.

Now, I will tell you that there's a product out there that I would put in your budget to address this concern, okay? But it's not a firearm.

Oh, >> okay. >> By RNA. And it'll cost you about 500 bucks. And it shoots a projectile that can either be pepper spray or a hard projectile that if you shoot someone with it, they will wish they had been shot. They'll go down, but they're not going to die. It's non-lethal. But if your husband pulls a Glock and empties a Glock into the guy's windshield cuz he freaks out, he's going to jail,

>> right? >> So that ain't cool. And you buy a Glock for about 500 bucks. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> But so either one will do the job. And you can do that in your budget. It's not an emergency though. But the fact that you all are reacting to this situation emotionally and actually calling this an emergency means you need to rethink how you're going to defend your home.

>> Yeah. And I I got to tell you,

I again, I have a gun on my person most

of the time, but the chances of me pulling it out are zero. I will run away. >> Mhm. >> I'm not going to shoot somebody.

>> Yeah. >> I'm I'm But it's just too there's just too much involved >> and it's not it's not the answer. And and you know, the only time is if one of my grandkids or my kids or somebody was in danger. My wife was in danger. Um,

>> yeah, >> but that's not that's the only the only way. And it would not be that I was scared of somebody knocking at my front door. I'm going to be on 911 talking to

dispatch until somebody rolls up on this boy and puts him down. He doesn't be running around my front yard scaring my wife and me. This guy needs to go down. And you

know, you guys did not communicate with law enforcement accurately and and urgently enough to get some reaction.

People don't need to be squirreling around my dad gum house. I don't care if

he's drunk. I don't care if he's got the wrong address or whatever with a cell

phone. Doesn't matter. All that stuff doesn't matter. You can't bust up on somebody's house like that without consequences. And so put but put law enforcement on that for God's sakes. No.

Buying a firearm for self-p protection is not an emergency. What is an emergency is changing your situation. So that if you need to spend some money on changing your situation so that you don't have this emergency, like you don't live there anymore, you move or something like that. If you've got a place that's unsafe, then I would do that. But I'm not going to, you know, build Fort Knox over here and stick, you

know, AR barrels out of every window to protect my house. No, we're not doing that. that that's just not a good use of your of your life. You should be doing

something other than that with your life. Um, so and and I'm about as gun

about as much a gun guy as anybody you'll ever talk to. So don't misunderstand. I'm not anti-2A. I'm anti-shooting people. Hello. That's a

bad idea.

Maxi is with us. Maxi is in Knoxville.

Hi Maxi. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Thank you. >> What's up? >> I'm doing well. >> Good. How can we help? My yes, my husband and I owe about a year ago in here to just over a million dollars um in assets, including a home. And after

paying off the home and the debts that that family member left behind, we have

approximately $288,000 left in investments and um including our

personal cash. So, we've rolled that into a uh an S&P 500 account, which

stands about 22 two $220,000, excuse me.

And my husband and I have about $127,000

in personal debt, and we're wondering if

we should go ahead and pay off that debt. My husband wants to jump jump the gun and and do it, wipe it out. Um that personal debt includes student loans, cars, and um some home repairs. Um, or if we go a little bit of a slower approach and do a snowball method with our debts and do it that way.

>> What's your household income?

>> Combined 120,000.

>> Okay. And you kept the other house and it's paid for.

>> Yes. Uh, my husband and I were renting an apartment before. So >> So you're moving into the paid for house? >> Yes, we paid it off. >> Okay. And that was the family home or that was a family home or whatever that you inherited.

Yes. >> Okay, I got you. I got the picture now.

Okay. So, here's the problem.

Mathematically, you should pay off all the debt today.

Okay? And then from this point forward, take all the payments and live on a written budget and start investing aggressively because you don't have a house payment. You don't have $127,000 worth of bull crap payments. and you put all the bull crap payments and the old house payment or rent payment into one lump and that starts going back into that S&P or back into some good mutual funds with a Smart Invest Pro and you'll be back to 200,000 in a heartbeat.

>> Mhm.

>> If you change the way you've handled money to this point, if you keep handling money the way you've handled to this point, in four years you're going to be back in debt again. Cuz every time I want something, I go get it.

>> No way. You got to stop that. No more

buying crap unless you have the money

ever.

>> And if you can't pinky swear and spit shake and write that down in blood and both of you agree to it and we're going to be on a written budget the rest of our lives, then you're going to screw this up by going back into debt by not changing you. So change your habits. If

you're both convinced you can do that, then I'd pay off the debt.

Our scripture of the day, 1 Peter 5 6

and 7. Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.

James Clear says, "Worrying about the future is like watching a leaf fall and trying to predict where it will land.

Stop trying to guess where the wind will blow and get to work." Amen.

One of our favorite things is hearing people share their stories of how they're winning. And we just heard this from Claire and Winston. This is me and my husband's third month budgeting with the Every Dollar app, and I'm amazed at how much money we found.

We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding $3,500

extra margin each month to put toward our debt. We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off, never going back. Man, that's great, you guys. Hey, folks, you can do this, too.

You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree. You can live like no one else. Go download our Every Dollar Budgeting app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Jen is in

Jamaica. Hi, Jen. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I'm a 13-year teacher and I've

saved up about $200,000.

Um, and I'm trying to figure out how to

best invest this. I don't have any retirement. Um, because I'm an international teacher, there are no 401ks. So, it's just intimidating to try to figure out where do I put all of that money, but I know I need to.

>> You're a US citizen?

I am. Yes. >> Okay. You're filing taxes in the US?

>> No, because I live overseas and I'm claimed as a resident overseas, I don't have to pay US taxes.

>> Okay. Uh Roth IRA is based on earned

income. And I suspect that would mean

even if you're a citizen, an earned income that is reported to the IRS. So, I don't know, but I don't think you're going to qualify for that.

>> I'd have to double >> I don't think I do either. Yeah, >> I would have to double check that. So, I mean, you're you're left then with just buying mutual funds.

>> And as a US citizen abroad, you can do that without any trouble.

>> I just don't know how to get started with that. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, what I what I would do

is sit you with a financial adviser or get you on the phone with a financial advisor. Um, Ramsey vest a smartvetor

pro and and uh on ramiesolutions.com. I

they don't work for me, but they're people that we have vetted that are in the investing community. And the main thing we make sure they do is that they have the heart of a teacher, meaning they're going to teach you what your options are. And I do not know

what their what their licensing rules are regarding an international investment, but as I as I remember it,

um the since you're a US citizen, they probably can do the investment for you. So, what I would do is just pick Nashville where I live >> because I I know I don't have one in Kingston, Jamaica. I'm 100% sure. Okay.

So, um pick Nashville and get in touch with them and ask them >> if there's something they can do to help you get started investing. If they can, that's your best route.

>> Okay. >> All right. >> Go ahead. >> Go ahead.

Oh, I was just going to ask the other thing that I was because because we are international, we move a lot. don't currently have a home and I've liked that cuz I don't I'm not We used to but we got rid of it. I'm just trying to decide is that something that would you think that that's okay and that we're just putting things into >> I think that's fine.

>> Like are you planning to retire in the States? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So at some point we've got to have a home fund. So, let's call it the magic

65 or 70 years old or whatever. We buy a

home for cash and we still have a nest

egg beyond that to live on for the rest of our lives for retirement because your home is your largest item in retirement

in your budget and to not have it paid for destabilizes your retirement.

So I would just have a target of saying when we call this foreign teaching quits and come to the states to retire, >> you know, we need to have a big pile of money in a mutual fund to buy a house and another big pile of money in some mutual funds to live off of. And that so

this is our overall. So in other words, you're paying yourself you're investing 15% of your income or more for your

retirement and then you're also paying yourself a house payment into another fund.

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. >> So, that that fund is going to be enough to buy you a house later. Um, so hopefully the Smart Investor Pros can help you as a fallback rather than just having it sitting in savings. There there's a thing called um

I hate the phrase, but I'm going to use it. Passive investing. Okay. So, the

average of the stock market is the S&P 500. Have you heard that?

>> Yes. The S&P 500 index funds do what the

market does. No better, no worse. And

you can just reach over to Fidelity or Vanguard or American or somebody and buy that. You could just jump online and buy that and you'd have 200 grand in there

ra and it would be going up what the stock market does. No better, no worse.

Now, I don't I have some parked in that that I'm using to save to buy some real estate later. Um, but I also have

regular retirement investments in the four types of mutual funds I talk about called growth, growth in income, aggressive growth, and international that I buy through my Smart Investor Pro. All right. But if if you want to do a a dumbed down version that's much

better than doing nothing, that would be

just put it all in an S&P 500.

>> Okay? and you can do that online and you won't have any trouble doing that.

>> Um, but that's your worst case scenario.

And just to, you know, the market is average between 10 and 12 a year depending on what you read and who you believe. I I see up I see 11.8 is the average that the S&P's done for 70 years. And see, that's a lot better than a 3% high yield savings.

>> Right. Right. And this calendar year

>> today, at this moment, the S&P for this for this calendar year is up 17%. That's

not normal. That's unusually good. But >> right, >> you know, instead of three, you could have made 17. And so that's a $35,000

error >> with 200 grand. Okay. So that that's what I mean. At least do that.

If the other thing if they if you call the other people and they go, "Nope, can't help you. We're not licensed. We can't do it. you can't do it the way you are, you don't have a US address, I can't help you, all that.

Then then just jump online and buy an S&P. >> Okay? Yeah. >> At least let at least it'll grow.

And the good news is it doesn't usually generate much income tax on the growth until you sell it. And when you do sell it, it's actually a capital gains rate rather than personal income rate. So, it's it's a great investment tool if you don't have anything else available kind of a thing or if you've maxed out all retirement but you don't have you don't have much available because of your situation. Very interesting.

Good question. Thanks for calling us. Merry Christmas to you. Cindy's in Charleston, South Carolina.

>> Hey, good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. I am in need I am in need of your

wise counsel about retiring at age 62

instead of waiting um for a few more

years. >> Okay. What's how how large is your nest egg?

>> We have 1.5 million in investments and I

have 135,000 in my TSP which is the

government equivalent of 401k.

>> I'm familiar. And then we have 45,000

in high yield savings account >> and no debt.

>> No debt. No sir. >> House paid off.

>> House is paid off. It's worth about 335,000.

Um, another part of this equation is that when I do retire, we would like to

move closer to our grandchildren. So

that may involve spending a little bit of our nest egg for that move.

>> What do you make?

>> 150,000. >> What does he make?

>> My husband is already um medically

retired. >> Ah, okay. >> Um so he's got >> disability drawing. So yes, sir. Yes.

>> All right. Um

well, here's a good rule of thumb. I was just talking to the other lady about mutual funds. Okay. If you've got the mar if you've got your stuff invested in that 1.2 and it averages what the market

has averaged 11.8.

Okay. >> Yes. >> Let's call it 12 for easy math right now. >> And you leave 4% in there every year and took off 8%. The mar the nest egg on

average will grow at the rate of inflation. So if you can live off of 8% of that nest egg or a little less, you

can make it pretty fine.

If you want to add, if you want to work a few more years, you can obviously double it again and have live more than pretty fine. Either way is fine with me.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 67. Financial Wisdom Replaces Fear With Peace | June 12, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people, build wealth, do work that they love, and create

actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, host of the Rachel Cruz show, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour.

My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888255225.

Lisa is in New York. Hi, Lisa. Welcome to the Ramsay Show. Hi Dave. What what

an honor and I can't even believe I got through. I will make it quick. Um, I am

a divorced now single woman. Was in a

relationship with a man for seven years.

He needed to borrow money. I know how you feel about that, but I did it anyway because I thought we were going for the long haul. $200,000 later, he lost all

the money. He was doing some crypto something. Lost all the money. Um, he

has since ended the relationship. So now I am out $200,000, which was basically the

majority of what I had. Um, I gave the money with my heart so I can say I'm leaving it in God's hands. If I get the money back, he is making monthly payments, but he's basically just paying me back the interest at this point. But with the money that I do have left to my name, I'm 55 years old and I approximately have $95,000

left to my name. Um, I would like to

know how can I make that money work

better for me so that I'm not working

forever and ever and ever, which I may have to be, but I want to make sure that I'm doing the right thing with what I have left. Wow. That's a sad story of

how we got here.

It is. It is. And um, I really thought that I was going to be going the long haul with I still love him. I'm still in contact with him, obviously.

Um, he has his own financial problems.

Obviously, I think Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And

I You kind of got that part figured out, I hope. Yeah. All right. The good news is he's in the rearview mirror. The bad news is we're $200,000 poorer. The other news is this. Let's just play pretend that none of that happened.

Okay. And you were sitting here and you just called me and said, "I'm 55. I got 95,000. Am I going to be okay?" answer is yeah, if you get on a budget, you stay out of debt, you invest in your 401k and plan on working for the next 10, 12 years, absolutely. You're going to be okay right now. But the 95 is not going to make you okay, Lisa. Your work. Yes.

What do you earn?

Um I uh between 56 and $60,000 a year.

I'm a server in a high-end restaurant.

So some days it's great and some days it's bad. not a, you know, consistent paycheck. But, um, I do love my job. Do

they have do they have 401k available to this?

They do, but they don't recommend doing it through our company because they don't match. So, I don't I I save my own

money. I'm not a spender. I'm very very

reasonable with myself. Um, I own my own

car. I have zero debt. Good. Okay. So really what you've got to do is you got to fund a Roth IRA and you need to be saving are are you out of debt completely?

No debt. Zero debt. Okay. Good. Do you have an emergency fund of any kind?

Three to six months of expenses.

Well, that's my um you know $100,000

that I have. That's that's not an emergency fund. Where where is that money, Lisa? Now that 95 right now I

have 90,000 in a high yield savings account which I was making about $600 a month in interest with all the money that I had but now I'm down to like 130 a month in interest which is hideous. Um

and then $14,000 I have in a stock from my ex-husband's

uh work that I just leave. I don't even look at it and it grows a little bit and

does what it does and I'm just leaving it there. Okay, here's what I want you to do and I keep the back. Here's what I want you to do. Yeah, go ahead. I want you to go to ramseyolutions.com and click on smartvester pro and find one in your area that can sit down with you and design your investment plan. Your investment plan needs to sound like this. Of the 90,000, 3 to six months of

expenses, which is $15,000 for you,

needs to go in a high yield savings. The rest of this, including cashing out that stupid stock, needs to go in good growth stock mutual funds. And some of it needs to go into a Roth IRA in growth stock

mutual funds. Okay? And you need to do a Roth IRA every year. And you probably need to be doing some in this 401k even though they don't match because I need you to start investing 15% of your 65 or

$70,000 a year and the Roth IRA won't

quite get you there.

Okay. And if you start investing that, you're going to be investing 1012,000 a year in good mutual funds in a retirement account. In 10 years, you're going to have some money.

Okay. So, who am I calling? Smart VTER

Pros. There's a list of them at ramseyolutions.com and it's the people we recommend in the investment world. You can look at them.

They'll sit down with you and have the heart of a teacher. I want you to understand what you're doing. That's why we require them to have the heart of a teacher. But basically, we're going to put all this money in good mutual funds, most of it in Roth IAS where we can, and maybe some in a 401k, and you're going to systematically start rebuilding your wealth by steadily investing over the next 10 to 12 years, okay? And you'll you'll end up further along than you were before you met Crypto Bro, who screwed you over. Wow.

And don't do that again, by the way. I think she learned her lesson. I hope so.

I don't think she so the next time someone comes along and pulls at your heart, tell them to take a walk when it comes to your wallet. I know. And that's where people get in trouble though because I mean, she said it and it's true. It's like you're in a relationship for years and years and years and years and you never get married and it's as much liability.

No, I think she had an ex-husband. I think this was a guy she was dating. You know, that's how I understood it. You might be right. I think that's what I don't think they were ever married. Oh, that's even worse. Yeah, because you said I thought we were going the long haul. I think I could be I could either way, Lisa. Um, so he dated you so he

could fund his crypto. Not because of I don't believe that, Lisa. No, I think he dated you cuz he loved you. Yeah. And then she had money that he could use and

he and he believed the crypto thing.

That's the thing is they just it's the quick cash. It's the It's the Vegas of today. It's like, hey, here's the smart investing. Here's the shortcut.

If only it was only as risky as Vegas. That would be nice. More risky than what you're saying. Definitely.

Definitely more risky than Vegas. This is like a sure thing. You're going to lose it. I know.

Yeah. It's just I mean Yeah. And Lisa and the single stock cuz she was like, I just want to leave that. And so I know.

But explaining and understanding that that puts you at a level of risk because if that company for some reason has a downturn, then that 14,000's going down and you can earn so much more from a from a diversification standpoint, but also from the interest rate. You can earn more diversifying and putting these in putting that money in mutual funds, Lisa. So, when when we were talking about the single stock, and that's what the Smarter Pro is going to be able to help you to kind They can guide you through teach you all of that.

you know, we've just got to get the majority of that 90,000 95,000 to work for you. It's not working. $130, like you said, is horrendous. And you said that properly.

But guard your heart, kiddo. Um, you don't get a second one of these. You've already you've you've you've done your one. You don't get another one.

Would you have him still pay her? She said, "He's kind of just still paying me." Yeah, I would love him for her to pay her, but I my expectation of this is close to zero. I mean, crypto bro is going to pay his debt. Come on.

I doubt it. Scott is in Charlotte, North

Carolina. Hey, Scott. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thanks so much. How you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So, my wife and I um were we moved to

Charlotte a few months ago in hopes of trying to find a house and just with mortgage interest rates, um we've kind of been priced out of the market around here. and my mom um offered me the

option to be gifted her house

um with the caveat that the house is in

Minneapolis, Minnesota. And my wife and I are trying to we're trying to figure out we don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth and we kind of want an objective opinion on we're trying to balance safety and concerns with where we want to live versus being gifted a house. And we

thought and I I respect both you and Rachel a lot uh just on money principles and and in a lot of other um aspects. So

getting just an outside perspective would be awesome. I don't think you want to live in Minneapolis the way you framed this sentence.

Well, I I moved out of the Twin Cities in 2020 um for kind of obvious reasons

and um No, it's it's we we we don't want

to live in in Minneapolis. Then don't.

But at the same But you feel like it's crazy to pass up a house. I it's it's

crazy a Yeah. Essentially a a house that we

we'd be we'd be so close to family. I have I have two little kids, a 2-year-old and my daughter is being going to be um born in August. Um it'd be close to family. It'd be close to everything. Part of the deal is my mom, it's a five- bedroomedroom house, split level. My mom would get a room in the basement. Um we kind of take care of her

until until she passes. Um she'd get the

rest of her life with her grandkids. Um, and we'd get a, you know, a house for

half the half the the mortgage because I'd be I'd have to buy my brother out because that would be the inheritance, but I' i'd get the ability to raise my

family. What do you What do you make a year? I make 125. Okay. All right.

Um well I I um you know if I were in your

shoes I would not go for the same reasons that you left are the reasons you don't want to return and

you're creating a family situation that's um unusual and potentially

strained with a permanent lockdown. You

don't have a choice once you get into this. You can't get out of it. So 10 years from now you can't do anything with it. you're screwed until she dies.

And um so um you know um here's another

idea. If you want her to live in your basement and your wife wants her to live in her basement, tell her to sell her house in Minneapolis and come buy a house in North Carolina.

I I thought about that. The problem is because my brother and his family lives in Minnesota, I it's it's hard for her

to it would be impossible really for her to do that. She It's It's been her home, too. So, it's Mhm. the childhood home. I hear what you're saying. I know, but I mean, it's it's the same. Scott, would y'all move there because you the way the pros were there's family and all of that. Would you move there if you weren't, you know, given this deal?

Would you guys look for houses in Minneapolis in that area? Oh, they already left. Well, no, I'm asking. It's a It's a hypothetical question.

Yeah. No, Minneapolis would not be our choice, but Okay. So, that helps the answer. I need Scott to answer. Well, we know that because you left. Yeah. Okay.

So, yeah, he's going he's talking about going back. So, my thing was if the deal wasn't there, is there any part of Scott that would want to go back at all?

You're you're a good son and your mom misses her grandkids and it tugs at your

heart and that means you're a good guy, but it's a bad idea.

Okay. Okay. I I appreciate that. I can I can I just say too I I really appreciate I I started Baby Step 2 in 2018 with $220,000 in student loan debt and in three years 4 months and 21 days I became debtree and it was all due to your teaching. So um I know it's I'm I

I'm an honor to speak with you Dave. So you too. How much do you have saved for a down payment? We have about 70,000

saved. Okay. Go uh go 20 go 20 miles

further out of Charlotte than you've been looking.

Mhm. And it's going to start to feel like the boonies cuz it is. Yeah.

Okay. And you'll find a deal and you'll find a real estate deal.

Okay. Charlotte's a good market. Uh but the it's like a any typical good solid

midsize city. Charlotte and Nashville are very similar except Nashville's outgrown it lately. But the further you

get from downtown, the shape cheaper the prices are. It's like if you drop a pebble in the middle and the rings that go out, those that's that's an urban growth theory. As the rings go out away from the city, it gets cheaper unless you run into a mountain or a lake and then it goes up because of those things.

But other than that, it's going to get cheaper the further out of downtown you get. And you'll find something there.

You've just been looking in a neighborhood you can't afford. And you make $120,000. You have $70,000 down.

honey, you you can buy a house in Charlotte and it's not the interest rates that are keeping you from doing it. It's just the whole shift in your whole life and um and things shifted on

you in the economy while you were making these moves around. And so you're still you're still reeling a little bit from all these moves and all the the you know the you left your home in a in a violent

COVID um rioting situation which is why you

left and two two things really going on there bad in the Twin Cities at that time in 2020 and there a lot of people left there at that time and uh and you're looking for freedom and you're looking for safety and security for your kids and um and then while you did that

uh everybody came out of their caves after COVID like a Baptist looking for a casserole and buying houses left and right and that they ran the dad gum prices through the roof and uh and then interest rates bumped on top of that and it's it's kind of given everybody a little bit of deer in the headlights for sure and has been for a while but I think what's hard is his dilemma what I was hearing him say is are you are we crazy to pass up this crazy financial opportunity you know you're not crazy and so that's the that's the thing is that when people get presented They feel like, "Oh my gosh, I need to shift my whole life.

My gut check is everything around that." Yeah. Because it because it's such a huge deal because to your point, the market, the housing market can feel so impossible. So someone like kind of gives you what feels like a get out of jail free card and you're like, is that crazy that I'm not taking that card? But but the way he phrased it is what you were saying too earlier is that he didn't he didn't really want to go, right?

Like I mean like you're just doing it because you feel like there's like this asset out there and I'm crazy if I pass it up. But and it wasn't a free and clear house either. I mean the the ties to family with your mom. A lot of strings.

A lot of strings. And we hear this a lot even with um family members that have like a plot of land.

But what's hard is like you're stuck there because if you want to move, your family don't want to live, you know, with some stranger in the house, you know? So like I mean you you do you get put in these permanent situations because other people build their lives around your decisions and that's what you discover is there are no forever homes other than heaven.

And so locking yourself into something forever, you're going to set yourself up for getting your head taken off. And yeah, and you know there are some daughters-in-law want their mother-in-law in the basement, but not many

as the audience is laughing. Well, I mean you can love them, but they're easier to love from a distance. I mean, it's just that's you need a little boundary here. It's it's nothing. It's not it's not a lot. It doesn't mean you don't like him. Doesn't mean you don't love him. That's not the point. But yeah. Yeah. So, that's a really good question. And the beautiful part about that question is just a sweetheart. He just he loves his mom. He loves his brother and he she misses her grandkids.

You know, she does. Oh, yeah. I can relate. If if you guys try to take the grandkids and leave, I'm going with you.

And so, I'll live in your basement. Here comes Dave. You know, here comes Dave in the basement. But um yeah um yeah that I

mean it's just I I can it's hard it's hard when families have been separated by these uh by this political thing

really. I mean the number of families that have left California and left the Twin Cities and left New York and have moved to other areas during this time is

um it's record setting. It's a record migration. Chicago, one of the largest migrations in American history in the last 5 years and um so and changing the

shifts in population, the shifts in voting blocks, everything. It's very interesting. Um and it's very very real.

But in the middle of all that is grandma doesn't get to see her kids grandkids and they were down the street and that just tears your heart out, man. And I appreciate his heart being sweet about that. That's that's important. And that can skew you. So, it's good to ask in the multitude of counselor's safety.

Uh, I understand why you'd want to do it, but I wouldn't do it. That's the answer to your question. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from

situations that are completely preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." or people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right?

If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care? How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there.

Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza.

There really is. So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800356-4282.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

Mason is in Huntsville. Hi, Mason.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, hey, guys. How are y'all doing today? Great.

How can we help? Yes sir. I just had a quick question. So, I've started a business within the last year. Um, I'm coming up on a year in business and I'm curious if I should open a business credit card or should continue to cash flow my business. Um, I feel like cash flowing the business is almost holding me back from my potential. It's holding you back from going broke.

That's your potential. The number one cause of small business failure is cash flow problems. Cash flow problems are caused by business debt.

Mhm. Don't don't listen. If you love your business, don't borrow into it.

Okay. So, what are you doing? So, I'm a

running a mobile RV repair business.

Okay. Full-time or are you working a

side job, too? Or is this a side job? I This is a side job. I'm 20 years old.

I'm in college. Um, and I also work full-time as a software engineer. Great.

Good for you. You're a hustler, man. You got a lot going on. Proud of you. That's good. Okay. So, uh, how much volume did

you do in your business of mobile RV

repair? So, in the past year to date,

I've done 68,000. Man, good for you. In

revenue? That's not profit. I know. I know. But yeah. So, how much of that would you call profit? So, profit, I

would say probably about 20,000 give or take. So, why did you How'd you spend 48,000 on a mobile repair? you've been buying tools and trucks. So, yes, when I

started out, I was running my business out of my Tahoe and then I purchased a company vehicle to run calls on. Um, as well as purchasing all the tools. Um, and a lot of the parts in this industry, unfortunately, cost a lot. Um, so anywhere from 1,100 to 21,00 on just one

single part most of the time. Oh, okay.

So, you're cost of the call. I got you.

Okay. Mhm. All right. Um, how'd you learn to do this, Mason?

Um, so I have a really big mentor back home that um kind of got me into this and overall just uh I've always enjoyed working with my hands. A lot of it is just pretty common sense, honestly. No,

it's Yeah, it's as common it's as common

as common sense, which is a guy like you. Way to go, man. I'm proud of you.

So, here's the deal. Here's the thing you need I want you to grasp. Um,

if you're looking for secret sauce in your business, his name is Mason.

You're the secret sauce.

No one else's brain works just like yours. You're what you're doing here is an anomaly. It is wonderful.

You are the key to this. Not more tools and trucks.

Your brain works fabulously as an entrepreneur. You're doing a really, really stellar job. The only thing

you've got to do is keep from getting caught up in if I spend more, I'll make more. Not necessarily.

Okay. So, what would you buy on this credit card? Because you've got the truck and the tools. Primarily parts.

Um, so for example, you want to stock parts.

Not stocking parts necessarily because I do already have a stockpile of parts.

most of the parts I use on an everyday basis. Um, but there's certain things that I don't carry in stock on me that will cost a few thousand. Like recently, I had um an air conditioner that was 1,900 and an awning that was 1,800, which left me with like 400 bucks in my business account.

Okay, two two answers to that. That's a really good example. Thank you. This is very helpful, dude. You are you're you're like 10 years ahead of yourself.

I'm so proud. This is amazing. So, uh, I really want to encourage you, but I'm begging you to not use a card. Okay? So, number one, I want you to start setting back a larger percentage of your profits

because now your profits should be greater than they were last year because you're not buying a truck or tools anymore. Mhm. Quit spending all your

money on crap in the business and use the crap that you already own to make some money. Okay? Your investment year was last year. Your profit year is this year. Okay? You following me? Yes, sir.

If you don't spend it all on more tools and parts this year, so so be careful with that. If you're doing that, a larger percentage of your 70,000 a year will be profit than it was last year.

Agreed.

Yeah. Okay. Then we're going to take a some of that profit and start to build a little pile of cash for buying parts with. Mhm. That's fix number one. You're

going to be your own line of credit.

Okay. Okay. Number two fix is um I'm

going to change my terms with these customers.

Mhm. Anytime a part that I'm bringing as a young 20-year-old college student to

your freaking $300,000 RV,

anytime I'm bringing you a part in excess of $1,000, you're advancing that.

Okay. Let them pay for it cuz they're going to pay for it anyway. That's what I was wondering. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. because recently I've only been doing 50% um of 50%'s fine, but if

it's over a thousand, I don't need I don't I don't need you to cover my labor. I don't need a deposit on my labor. I'll risk that. But I'm going over here picking up a $3,000 air conditioner for you and I'm 20 years old and in college, so you need to pay for

the air conditioner, dude. And the guy's going to go, "Well, sure." Okay. And just let you know, I I'll I'll listen. Here's the invoice. you just cut me a check for that and then you use his money to go buy the air conditioner and then the and then you just charge him for the other stuff and that's not an unreasonable thing. You don't want to nickel and dime them on little stuff but if you you know set a limit anything above two grand or upper

1500 or whatever so that gets rid of the cash flow problem and if you did have a cash flow issue and you want to dip into it, you can build your own line of credit with your increased profits.

Don't fall into the credit card trap, Mason. You're way too bright to do that.

You got way too much potential. This thing's got upside, man. And and the way your brain works, you're going to be able to start something in a few years, this or something else, and go you're going to go bananas. It's great. You're getting some really good business training right there. I love America.

I mean, you I'm unemployed. I'm unemployed. I'm not.

I'm fixing RVs out of the back of my Tahoe and I'm 20 and I made 70 grand. while

you're sitting on your thumbs talking about how everything's falling apart in Trump world. Give me a break. This is an

awesome country. I love the free enterprise system. God, man. As long as

we got kids like that, there's hope, man. Life is good. Michael. Michael is in Palm Springs. Hey, Michael. How are you?

Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. Really appreciate it. Our pleasure.

Uh my wife and I are going through a bit of a financial challenge. Really need your advice. Longtime listener, so I kind of have a general idea of what you guys will say already, but uh I lost my

job in August. It was a higher paying job and we have a significant amount of consumer debt about 120,000

and we're considering selling our home

um to get out of the consumer debt. And then also the home, we used a family

friend to finance it. It's on a private note right now that is interest only.

And if we were to sell the house, we would clear all of the debt and then also have about maybe 80 or 90,000 in

our savings. So I wanted to get your advice around that.

What were you making before you lost your job?

Um, I was making I was bringing home about 150 and my wife brings home I'm in

the financial services industry and it's it's that was August and this this What are you doing now?

Why Why are you not re-employed?

Uh, I am I am I I got uh rehired at a

different firm in January, but it's a different position that makes uh significantly less. What are you making now?

uh about 657.

Why did you do that?

Um it was a bit of out of necessity, but

because I did lose the job, I couldn't really find another higher paying position. What were you doing?

Uh I'm a branch manager for a retail bank. Okay.

All right.

Now, now I'm I'm just a traditional banker.

Oh, I see. Well, I'm not in no longer in management. Yeah. Okay. Well, if you're going to adjust your life to your new income, then yeah, this whole deal makes sense. Um, but I I'm still wondering

once you make 150, you ought to be gravitating back that way and not be settling for 65. Maybe banking ain't your thing because that's a big drop. I think you're worth more than you're getting paid.

So, you know, is selling the house fixes

the temporary? Does it fix the permanent? That's what you got to ask.

Buying or selling real estate right now is a big deal. And uh between all the

clickbait headlines and the confusing data out there, it's tough to know what's actually going on because people try to hype it up one way or the other.

The real world is this. The median house

price in America today is 431,000.

That means half of them are above that and half of them are below that. That's what that statistical measure means.

Interesting. And uh inventory is up.

There's more houses on the market right now, over a million right now, than at any time since 2019.

And prices are up. And interest rates

are down. They're down under 6%. So, it's a good time actually to buy and it's actually a good time to sell. So, 15-year fixed is 5.9 right now, just to

give you an idea. And so if you want to know data like that, you know, check out the housing market trends. We help you do this with free tools. Doesn't cost you a thing. Go to ramseolutions.com/market or you can click the link in the show notes and uh we'll show you the stuff that's going on out there for real. No

hype. Josh is in Atlanta. Hi Josh. How

are you? Hey Dave, how are you? Better

than I deserve. What's up? Uh same here

Dave. Same here. Um, so about two two

years ago, I started my financial journey and it was partially inspired by

you. I came across one of your videos and I was at a point in my life where I met my wife and um, my family really

needed me to step up and um, my wife has

some medical issues. She also uh, you know, was touched by tragedy. She had lost a child previously and it kind of exacerbated some issues and you know it got in the way of her job and she was in recovery. Anyway, long story short on that note once we got together I was

able to pull us out and I was able to overcome and become debtree and good for you. Recently about eight months ago I

found out about a massive windfall that she uh would be receiving. and it was due to a legal settlement. And for the

past 8 months, I've just been on a

journey where I've been dead dedicated

to not getting this wrong. And I I I'm

basically at the point now, Dave, where I had my plan. I've been doing nothing but working on it. And I'm kind of circling back to where I started because I'm at a crossroads. I have an appointment with a wealth management firm um tomorrow and I'm looking to get

the money on Monday and I have my plan in my hands. I have all the voices out

out there that are telling me all different types of things and I'm just kind of bringing it back because what you did worked and your your overall life philosophy and and ideals align

with mine. So, you don't need my money

and uh I just I just don't want to get this wrong, Dave. So, I'm coming to you just to say, "What do I need to know?

What don't I know?" Cuz the scary part is I think I kind of have an idea, and that's what scares me. Okay. Thinking that I know what to do. Uh, how much is this?

Uh, it's going to be 4.7 million after tax lump sum.

Yes, sir. Okay. Yeah, that that's enough to scare you. Um, if you're wise, and

you are wise, obviously. So, uh, a couple of basics we can cover, and you probably already know these, is, um, the

wealthy people that I know, and I know thousands of them, and I've studied them as well. Our firm does research on them, um, violate the stereotypes that that

not wealthy people think they do. Not wealthy people think that wealthy people have some kind of trick bag that you can do a uh, a double backflip

family partnership limited bull crap.

there don't exist. Okay. The secrets of

the rich are this.

Keep it simple.

Very I see simple rule number one. Rule

number two, don't put money in anything

unless you understand it.

Rule number three, you and your wife meet with the people that are teaching you. And don't ask your wife what she thinks. Ask her how she feels.

Okay? Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her and he

will have no lack of gain. If Sharon has

a bad feeling in a meeting, it's the

last one.

Wow. She doesn't even have to explain it. It might be he just had bad breath.

I don't care. We're not going back in there. Okay. And that has saved me that

has saved me hundreds of thousands of dollars of Dave doing stupid stuff.

Okay? I'm serious. Yes, sir. Those are three very simple principles.

Okay? You don't have to be fancy. You do

have to understand it. And your wife and you need to have a peace about it.

You've had a lot of turmoil, a lot of medical issues, a lot of drama. It's

time for some peace.

And the finances need to add peace, not

anxiety.

Okay? And if you feel yourself tightening up in your chest, that's God talking to you.

Take a breath. Walk out. Don't do it right now. If it's not adding peace, we're not doing it. Josh, I want I'm curious. You said, "I had a plan and now I'm I'm thinking about it, but I don't know if it's right." All of it. I'm curious. What What would you have done with this money? If you hadn't called, what what what was the plan? So,

what I came up with, and I'm going to get it wrong because I'm nervous. Half because I got that meeting tomorrow. Half because I'm on air, but I'll try to get this right. You're good. Uh I I was going to establish a trust. I was going to put money into the four types of mutual funds, you know, growth, u growth

income, growth, aggressive growth, international. Little thing I came up with, Dave, on my own, uh,

uh, and then I was going to have an emergency fund and then I was going to look at and getting into some physical real estate. Growing up, my parents had a service industry, locksmiths, and they base their business off of property managers. And you're going to pay cash. I know a lot of property managers. I'm going to pay cash and I'm going to start off small. I'm not going to get greedy.

I would do everything you're doing except I don't think you need a trust.

Really? No. Okay. A trust does nothing

here. You don't you don't have an estate tax problem and trusts are mainly for estate tax problems.

Okay. But I think everything I think you're everything you're doing there, assuming you can be competent in the real estate part of it, which I think you can. You were getting ready to explain that when I cut you off. But um yeah, I I I'm with Rachel. I think that's wise. Now uh the other thing is I I don't I when you when I hear the phrase wealth management, I get a little bit uh hair on the back of my neck.

Okay? So I I don't know what you're going into over there tomorrow. And so just just keep it simple, which is what you've done so far. Don't put money in stuff you don't understand, which is what you've done so far. And if they want to change the direction of that walk, I see you're capable of doing this. This is not rocket surgery. You can do it.

Rocket surgery. Well, it's a combination of brain surgery and rocket science, right? Yeah. Like it's very it's very

complicated. Kind of like brain science and rocket surgery. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. That's it.

I mean, yeah. I I guess the core of my question to to be specific and I don't want to take up all your time with her

issues with being in recovery, they're

kind of at a sensitive point in time.

She kind of needs me for at least 24 months. And so what I'm looking at, I'm I'm weighing the options of can I do the work? I have a fire in my belly, Dave.

I'm ready to go to work, but my family may need me. And before I was selling my time for money. I'm a federal security contractor. I make about $50,000 a year.

I'm no longer keeping the lights on. I'm keeping my family healthy and guiding us and orientating the ship. Well, I mean,

if this if this generates a 10% rate of return, you're going to have $400$500,000 a year coming in.

Yeah. Managing the family office.

Yes. Yes, sir. Okay. So, I mean, if if your if your real rental properties are cash flowing to the tune of net net of 10% of everything and your mutual funds

are averaging 10%. I mean, you're going to be dealing with that, which is more than you've ever money you've ever made. Do you guys have kids, Josh?

Yes, we do. We're blessed with a 14-year-old and an 8-year-old. Okay.

Yeah. Is she Is she emotionally capable of attending these meetings?

She is emotionally capable of attending these meetings. Our strategyy's always been the same, Dave. I'm not wanting to stress her and ask her to make all the financial sophisticated decisions. I just want her feeling on the room. I want her to feel the room. And I want you to meet with more than just the person you're meeting with tomorrow. Meet with a Smart Veester Pro, too. Get some other people in your corner. Get get a second opinion or six. Hey, technology has changed a

lot in the last 30 years. Now, the hot topic is AI. And I understand that it might seem intimidating. But if you use AI the right way, it's just another tool to help you work smarter and faster, like a calculator or a cordless drill.

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Larry is with us in Atlanta. Hi, Larry.

How are you? Pretty good. How you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up? I love

to hear it. Well, my question today isn't really about me. It's about my parents. So, both of my parents are completely debtree. They've always been really good with their money. They have about $110,000 in savings

and uh they have nothing invested in a for no 401k, no Roth, no nothing in their retirement cuz I think it's mostly more my dad always doing the stock market. It's more of a gamble and he fears it. And now that they're in their mid50s, I just want them to retire at some point and me being an only child.

You know, it's so be kind of more burden on me when they kind of get older because, you know, I can't really split, you know, help between siblings and all that stuff. And, you know, any little extra income probably on their end would help because they can't work forever.

So, I'm just trying to figure out how can I convince my dad to stop being scared of investing and finally get them

to start doing it. Trying to convince him that's not too late.

Is he asking?

Um, no. He I brought it up first and

then he kind of asked me like, you know, why are you kind of worried about me retiring so much? I'm just like, I just want you to retire. Have a good life. You see, you know, my grandparents, they've they're doing well. They're haven't worked in about, you know, 10, 15 years or so. They're doing good. And I just want you to have the same thing.

But right now, I just not really seeing it going that way, you know. How old are you?

Uh, I am 24. Okay. All right. I

appreciate your heart forum. You're what you're running into is what's called the powdered butt syndrome.

Once once someone has powdered your butt, they don't really want your opinion on sex or money, right? And so, it's very difficult for

24 year olds to advise 55year-old dads.

Oh, yeah. It's just a it's a the dynamic of that relationship is very hard. It's

very unusual that your dad would go, "Hey, Larry, tell me everything you know about investing. You know, it just doesn't really come up that way." Usually, it's almost like they snicker and roll their eyes when you start talking. Um, that would be more normal anyway. So um you

know the only thing I can do is um

there's two things that have three things that have worked. One is I would pray for them and ask God to speak to them in

some way or another. And two is uh one

of those prayers is who could speak to your dad that he would listen to?

Does he have an uncle, a brother, a friend that is your childhood friend as well? But he admires them and respects them and never powdered their butt.

Uh, not quite. He He has been kind of listening to me somewhat, but I think in my approach to it, maybe because I'm still learning all this stuff. Yeah, it might be. That That's fair. But I'm saying, is there a a a person that's that's 65 that he looks up to?

Uh, probably his parents, which would be my grandparents that I talked about. Uh, they might have more they might have more say than you would have. Matter of fact, I know they have more say than you would have. Hell yeah.

Hell yeah. If your grandpa if your grandpa sat down and said, "Hey, if you had parked that 100,000 in a S&P for the last two years, you'd have an extra 50 grand right now that you don't have." That's what it cost him in the last two years. It cost him $50,000 in the last two years, right?

23 and 24. That's what the S&P did if he

just parked it in a simple standard and poor. So it cost him $50,000.

So that that's that's the other thing.

Now, uh the third thing is you can do is

don't talk to him about him.

Talk tell him your story.

This is what I'm learning.

this is what I'm doing. This is what's happening when I got out of debt. This is how I feel different. I feel more hopeful than I did. And I've learned here's what I learned about the market.

I I'm investing in the market. And the reason I am is I looked at it and I realized it's the track record on the stock market. Even though the bad news is always on the news, the the track record on the stock market um is as solid as that house you and mom live in.

You didn't get a guarantee on it. and I want to own real estate and I want to own mutual funds because both of them have a long-term track record of going up and neither one of them have a guarantee.

And I that's what I'm doing, Dad. But you don't have to say and you should do it, too. Don't add that.

So, you're changing your approach to telling your story.

Yeah. How do you I'm curious, Larry. How do you know that they have nothing invested?

Are they pretty open with you about where they are? Oh, yeah. I growing up my dad like he never told me not to invest in a 401k care or nothing like that. Yeah.

But I always I've always heard him say Mark's like I was just gambling. Might as well just go to a casino I you know started learning about you know S&P 500 and Ross all that stuff. And he's known about it for a long time longer because he's been alive longer than that. But he just sees that that there's just no difference.

And I think he started listen to me because I did buy him the book Retired Inspired and I recently gave him two of my copies of Dave Ramsey's books and he's been skimming through it. I think he's starting to open up. I'm just trying to like just there's just like something I'm not wording right where I think he will do it.

Vegas is an inaccurate statement mathematically.

I agree. It's just I mean it's very simple. The market is closer is more akin to single family homes than it is gate Vegas, right? And so you can it does go down

more than single family homes when it goes down. Single family homes seldom go down, almost never, right? Uh but uh but

but it that you don't have a guarantee on either. And what you're when you're investing, what you're learning to invest based on is the track record. And

when someone makes a statement like, "Oh, it's the same thing as going to Vegas." That means they just don't understand the track record of the market. And so there's some interesting I'll tell you one to pull up and look at, and you might even just send him the link over and go, "Hey, I was I was studying this. What do you think about it?" Um there's an interesting uh chart

on American Funds. Go to American Funds

website and it shows what the market has

done and uh they have a fund called a

which is one of the largest and oldest funds, Investment Company of America and you can look at that or you can look at the S&P. It's the same it'll do about the same thing. Uh and you can go okay looking at the S&P in the last 25 years there's been three down years.

Right. Interesting. That's way different than Vegas.

That's the S&P, which is the market.

We've had three down near annualized basis in the last 25 years. That's kind

of shockingly stable.

Yeah, that is. Yeah. So, I mean, pull up, you can pull up stuff like that on the S&P that that old fund is just

interesting because they've got a great illustration. Yeah. And just have some patience, Larry. If he's been saying this your whole life, this is going to be an untangling of a mindset that he's had for 20 plus years. So, just have

some patience. Yeah. You know, it's not going to happen overnight. You got a long project, don't you? When you try when you try to change your parents, it doesn't happen overnight. Trust me. I'm just I'm kidding. I knew this was coming. I knew I wasn't getting out of this call unscathed.

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might not be in all states. Today's question comes from is it Michaela in Virginia. What do you think about the recent government proposals to give a baby bonus payment to encourage couples to have kids?

I'm going be honest, I'm not up to date on all of this stuff, but is it I don't think it's Is it to encourage people to have kids or is it like a hey, here's like an assistance to like a child tax

credit opposite? You know what I mean? Like I kind of see it as like a opposite of a tax credit, but it's like here's a

here's a thing. Here's the deal. If the

only reason you had a kid is because the government was going to give you money, you got issues.

If I could sing, I would sing. And and your kid's going to have issues after you had issues. So, it's a it's a bad motivation. How much is it? Do you know?

I don't know. I should have known. It doesn't matter. The government needs to stay out of this crap. Having babies shouldn't be a government operation. I'm just saying. They can screw up Christmas. They don't need to screw that up. So, I mean, no, it's not. No. No,

no, no. I would go for like child care stuff. How about How about just everybody live your own life and you don't need the government for your own freaking life. How about you go do something with your bone butt? And I like waiting around on the government to give me a money. Not waiting around.

Your life is not going to be better because of the government ever. There's never a time where you went, "Oh, the government saved my bacon." No, they stole my bacon regularly. That's what they did. So there you go. There we go.

Yeah. Kevin's in Cleveland. Hi, Kevin. How are you? Uh, not bad. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Um, so

I'm going to I'll keep this as brief as I can, but there's a lot to it. So, basically about 10 years, my dad died.

Um, my sister moved in with my mom. uh he he had her set up, my mom set up to where uh she could live in her mid 90s

without having any any issues, any change of lifestyle at all with that ranch house and everything. Uh they ended up buying a uh a large two-story

5-bedroom, four bath house where currently they have a mortgage. My um my

mom's savings is gone. She's got early stage of dementia.

Um, wait. Who? I'm sorry, Kevin. Who Who bought the house? His sister screwed the deal up. Your mom, but your sister's the one kind of assisting in all of this, causing it. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay.

Your sister screwed it up. I got That's what I heard you say. Did you say that? Would you agree with that? I agree with that. Yes. All right. Okay. sadly. But um so um basically neither of neither of

them would be able to afford this house on their own at any point. So um my mom's monthly income is paying going solely towards the mortgage. Um and um

she's got early stage dementia. Um her

savings is gone.

um been trying to get it um me and my

brother been trying to get you know things situated in in what we think would be a better uh better better situation but there's backlash from my sister and I think I think

I think my uh my mom is convinced by by

her um to have it. I mean like she um I

don't know who has power of attorney.

So, um I'm not sure anyone has power of

attorney yet. There's not a medical power of attorney.

Uh well, I don't think she's been diagnosed with any, right? My uh So, she

she was on some medication for it uh to kind of slow it down. Is there a will and a healthcare power of attorney?

There is a will. There may be a healthcare, but I was thinking you were meant financial. Well, it's the same thing. Oh, healthare can dictate. Health

care can dictate the care, but once someone is declared incompetent due to dementia, then the power of attorney takes over and runs the estate. Who is that? Probably your sister. I know my brother well my brother was was t my

brother's oldest out of us and he was the one that was uh talking several months ago about going and getting it and I I keep on having to remind him.

Last time I was like, "Hey, did you get that?" He's like, "Oh, no. It slipped my mind. Thanks for reminding me." I'm assuming it still hasn't been done, but I don't I don't know. There there's a copy of that stuff somewhere. That's what you're saying. Go get

I I get Yeah. I don't know. It's not publicly recorded. It's the the family

lawyer or your mother has it in a lock box or wherever the will is. That's where it is. My my understanding is he was going to get going with my mom to get for him to get power of attorney.

Oh, too late. She's got early onset dementia. She can't grant it.

No. If she's been diagnosed as not as being semientally competent, she can't start signing documents.

Okay. Has she been diagnosed as that or is that your just your suspicion?

Um, well, I know she I know she's been to a doctor. I I don't know whether or not she's she she definitely has it cuz I mean, you could sit there and talk to her and she'll she'll repeat the same thing over and over again. And you you would lose if if she signed if she signed over something, you would lose it in court when your sister contested it.

And your sister will contest it because what you're going to do with it immediately sell this stupid house.

Yeah. If you got it, but oh well. Okay.

So, what are we going to do?

Well, I I guess I guess that's a question. At at at this point, it seems like I'm I'm the lone dog, if you will. I mean, I'm the only one that's really willing to do anything about any of this. Um, so I I I seem I I think that I have to kind of look out for myself in this at this point.

What have you got in it?

Well, I I guess that's my question is what if if she has to go into long-term care or anything or if if there's any any debt that I mean, what what kind of liability do I have or zero unless you sign for it?

Okay. If you go over at the nursing home and you sign up for it and you say I'm liable, then you're liable. But if she just goes in on her own, your children are you do not inherit your debts.

Okay. And so any so if this house gets

foreclosed on and your sister your sister may she probably signed on it.

She probably they probably go after her.

But um but you know you're not let's say

your mom had a credit card, okay, and had owed owed $50,000 on it and she dies. You're not liable.

Okay. The estate is if she owns anything

when you die what you own stands good for what you owe. Assets minus liabilities that's the estate but the in

but the heirs are not liable for anything.

But your sister would be if her name's on the house if she signs. Yeah. I mean you're not li you're not liable just because you're the kid. Are you worried Kevin that that you she's not going to have money to go into an assisted living even? Like is that part of your question? Yeah. She's that. Yeah, that's that that's that's part of my question.

My my whole question. Ideally, I would want um I mean I I've offered to to have

her live with me, my mom live with and and them sell the house and and and get something where my cuz it's it's my sister and her and her daughter and my mom that's in a in a gigantic house that

they can't afford and it doesn't make sense to me. Yeah. Um ide ideally I would like all all that uh you know everybody to have money but does she have insurance Kevin? like long-term care or anything.

Well, that's that's another thing. I don't I apparently they do, but I couldn't get the specifics on it and I

um I asked probably a year ago for it and then when I asked again, I kind of got yelled at. Yeah. Oh jeez. And and

accused of some things. So, um, well, I

I don't I don't know that you're going to be able to I don't know that you're going to be able to affect this situation, no matter how bad you want to, unless prior to her dementia

episodes, she had signed a power of attorney that in the event that she became incapacitated, this person was assigned. That is a standard package with a will usually. So, if there's a will somewhere, there may be a healthc care power of attorney and a power of attorney in the event of diminished capacity. That would not be unusual.

That's a fairly like if you go to Mama Bear Legal Forms and you do a will, they're going to have those two things in the package. Okay. That's a fairly standard basic will set. Uh so, if

that's laying if that's laying somewhere, your brother probably has great power here to help your mom. Yep.

And put your sister where she belongs in the street. And so, um, that's where she

should be figuring this out instead of being a dick parasite. I can't stand parasites. Parasites in the family are awful. They're just awful. Just gross. I

get it. So, yeah, take care. Take care of your mom, buddy, if you can. But you're not liable.

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Two weekends are on sale now for the money and marriage getaway. You can spend three incredible days in Nashville with your spouse, learning the tools to strengthen your connection and deepen your intimacy and more. Dr. John Deloney and our own Rachel Cruz, both of them are our own, I guess, here in November or in February. You can decide. February

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did I say? $4.49. Oh, I was about to give a discount. Well, I know. I thought I just wanted to make sure everyone knows. Thanks, God. Dave can't read.

Okay. Clear it up. Just clear it up.

Just clear it up. Clear it up before it Before we get out of this. All right. So, check it out. ramseyolutions.com/getaway or if you're on YouTube or podcast is in the show notes. Christine's in Chicago.

Hi Christine, how are you? Hi Dave, how

are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Um about three and a half years ago, my 15-year-old daughter passed away. Um oh my gosh, what in the world?

I'm so What happened?

You know, she was really struggling with uh mental health and um she just gave

up. I'm so sorry. Thank you. Wow. How

three did you say three and a half years ago? Yeah, she died in uh 2022.

I can't even imagine. I'm so sorry.

Yeah, thank you. Um after she uh passed,

I I let go of everything. Um I was evicted out of the house. I was renting for 5 years. Um lost everything. Just

kind of gave up on everything. Um my ex-husband, I was staying with him for a little bit. And then I got to the point where um you know it's like it came to

sink or swim. So I started door dashing, grub hubbing. Um I was living in my car for a short time. Um and I have a family

friend that reached out to me and she was like, "Come to my home. You know, I'll help you get on your feet, you know, mental health wise and so forth." Well, I just got a job opportunity. I

just signed my offer letter. I started a job in two weeks. This is the first full-time job I've had since my daughter passed. Um I'm going to be making roughly about 64,000 a year. Good for you. Um I'm in Thank you. I'm in debt about 30 and part of that is my car uh

my car loan. Um I have one more payment

for a funeral expense and the rest is just like you know um medical bills, no credit cards. I just don't know. I just don't know how to like get on my feet. I don't know. Do I jump into this job and go run and get an apartment? Do I pay off my car? I I I

feel like I just don't know what I should do once I start this job. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. You're crawling out, kiddo. I'm trying. I I really am.

It's been real hard. It's been real hard. I can tell. Thank you very much. I can tell. So, h how's your how's your emotional state? Are you doing okay? Um I'm I'm a lot better. A lot better. I would say probably um the last year it's probably been um so this this friend

giving you a safe spot this friend giving you a safe soft spot to land was a was a godsend. Yes. Wonderful lady.

Wonderful lady. So how much longer do you stay there? Should you stay there?

Is she expecting you to stay there? You know um with me getting this job, you know, she's motivated me a lot. Um everything from getting out of bed to showering to, you know, finding this job that I finally got. Um, you know, she

wants to see me in my own space, but she's not at the same time making me leave anytime soon. If that I would I would ask her what the timeline is she

thinks is appropriate. Okay. She has been such a blessing. The last thing you want to do is overstay. You're welcome. Agreed. Absolutely. I agree. Absolutely.

Okay. And so, because I don't want you thinking three months and her thinking three days. Sure. Sure. Sure. I I want

us to be aligned and then you know what you've got to deal with because your first job with the new job is and with

the emotions and everything is to create a sustainable situation definitely.

Okay. And that's food, shelter, utilities and transportation and clothing and that's it. The debt, the debt I'm not worried about today other than you got to pay the car payment because you got to keep on repoing it.

What do you owe on the car? I owe about

18,000 on it. Okay. Right now. Um, do

you want to keep it and pay it off quick? Yeah, that was like my, you know, my plan. And that's like the biggest reason why I've always like kind of I I I bet to be honest, I've been teeter tottering with the, you know, it being repossessed, you know, like this week. Right now, I'm just shy of two months right now. Behind on it. All right. Job one's get current on a car.

Definitely. Okay. Job two is figure out housing and the timeline. Okay. Okay.

So, is the timeline 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 days? I don't know. Let's figure that out. Sure. And and and so so once the

car is current, then we're going to

establish when we move out. And when we do move out, we're going to establish food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. If you keep all that going, this is your first step to reestablishing your life. Agreed.

Foundational. Okay. It's foundational.

Absolutely. Okay. Then we can worry about getting out of debt, building wealth, and being outrageously generous.

Okay. Okay. But but right now, we're worried about eating and car payments and apartment. Christine, have you written down any numbers done any level of kind of even a mock budget?

Have you done any of that? You know, I really haven't. Um, you know, as you know, as weird as it sounds is that, you know, um, you know, sometimes just I have to be on a schedule otherwise I can't get out of bed. I don't want to shower, you know.

going. Yeah. Well, and I think for the I think the first one of the first steps possibly that could be a gift to you is

just to sit down and we're going to give you every dollar premium our budgeting app is to kind of just create a mock budget. It doesn't have to be for real. The numbers that you type in don't have to be, you know, locked in stone by any means, but just to say, okay, okay, the apartments around this is kind of probably like the average rent for a onebedroom. Here's what I think I can find.

Okay, I'm just going to put that down for rent for food. How much will groceries be? And just estimate some of these things. And again, they're not real life because you're not living there right now.

But once you kind of start to get these facts, Dr. John Deloney, our friend, always says, "Facts are your friends in like especially kind of a crisis situation." And this could this could ground you.

driven on emotion. It's just this is exactly the reality of my life and what I have to have. And then and then compare that to what you'll make after taxes, what will hit your account on that first paycheck. And all of that's gonna and the car loan.

I mean, all of it. I think it's going to give it'll give you another plan with your money, just like a plan and a schedule you have for your day. It's just another routine to have in your life. That's really healthy and it's really good because I think it'll I think it'll ground you and I really believe it's going to give you some confidence to see, okay, here's my here's the reality of what's about to happen when this first paycheck hits and here's what I'm going to do with it.

Um, but I think that's I think that's a great first step financially. It takes the uh it takes the trauma and the drama out of your brain and puts it on paper and makes it look like what it is a non-issue.

Okay. You're you're going to be mathematically you're okay. Okay. You're

going to be fine if you just stick with this. How much is your car payment?

Um it's about 4 what is it? 426. Yeah.

Mathematically you're going to be okay.

If you're making 65,000 just make sure you take make sure you load up the W2 and you don't have hardly any withholding. There's no point in you having a bunch of withholding because you're not going to have hardly any taxes in Chicago. Sure. Okay.

Okay. And so I want most of this money coming home and uh and we're going to get the car payment current. We're going to get a apartment. We're going to buy food.

We're going to buy lights. We're going to buy water. And we're going to put gas in the car. And you probably got some clothes.

And you know, and and now we now we're set. Now we can start talking about going from here. But what that what Rachel's right. When you put it down on paper, it looks back at you and it says to you you're okay.

Okay.

what it that's what that structure does for your brain. It says you're going to be okay. You're going to be okay because I can see the budget, but I've done 10,000 of them. Yeah. So, I know what your budget is. I can already tell you. But I But that doesn't help you. You when you write it down and you go, "This is what an apartment. This is food. This is my $400 car payment. This is life. I

can do this. This is going to work." It's going to make you smile. It's going to make you I'm so proud of you. You're amazing walking through what you've walked through. It's incredible.

Absolutely incredible. So, we are cheering you on the line. We're going to put one of our Hang on the line. We're gonna put one of our uh Ramsey coaches at our expense.

You not charge you a dime. We want make sure we want to be part of your story, part of your healing story. And they're going to walk with you and show you just exactly what we're doing here. And we'll get you the Every Dollar full package and FPU and the whole deal, whatever.

We'll get you in everything. You you're you're you're amazing. Wow. Wow. Tina is

in Trenton, New Jersey. Hi, Tina. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay.

A quick question. Um, I am retired, sold

the family home, and I've been renting for six years now. Um, so my house money

is in the bank and now I have an opportunity to buy a condo which is in the mid200s which will take um a good part 75% of

what's in the bank. But the HOA fee and

taxes um are about $1,400 a month versus rent

which is around 2,000 a month. And I'm just wondering is that worth it? Like I'll be saving 600 a month. um

in fees for the month. So, it's $600 less than my rent and I'm taking money out of the bank to put So, your total nest egg is how big?

The total nest egg um of the cash, the free cash. No, everything. Everything you own? Oh, everything I own would probably be 700 and some thousand. Okay.

And you're putting 200 into a condo. And then the question is the high HOA fees.

Well, I I kind of got a little sticker shock like you did listening to this and then I look and I see you live in New Jersey. So, um, which you got ultra high

property tax there, right?

Yes. So, I don't know if this is high

or not compared to other condos in the area.

If if you said I mean if you if you went and bought a $400,000 condo uh five

blocks away, what would be the HOA fee?

Again, they would range from 500 to a,000. Okay. So, this is unusually high.

It's about Yeah. 800. Why is it high?

Yeah.

Um, it's a a condo in a resort town with

great um No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The

HOA fee is for running the HOA, which

would be doing repairs, maintenance, Yes. and taxes, and insurance on exterior structures.

Okay. If the taxes are the same as the one across town that's 500, then we don't have a tax issue. Okay? If the insurance is the same as the one across town that's five or 600, then we don't have an insurance issue. Which tells me the thing that the HOA may be run poorly.

Ah, okay. Now, this is just the HOA. The taxes are are would be like the taxes are separate.

Yes, taxes are 500. HOA is like 860.

Correct. Okay. Well, I want to know some history on this HOA if I'm you and figure out if it's being run poorly because there has to be a reason that this is high.

Okay? If I don't get a logical reason like um we just put in new parking lots and we're assessing everyone so it's in there. That's a logical reason and then the fee may come down later.

Okay? Or it may there may be something else going on. But when if the average in the area is eight or 900 or a thousand and this is 1,400, they are devaluing these condos by running them poorly. Oh, wait. I I'm sorry. The 1400

included the taxes. So if you back the tax out, the HOA for this condo is like 860. So it's it's about the same as others in the area.

Yes. Okay. I'm sorry. I completely misunderstood. All right. Then we don't have a problem, do we? Um it's

comparable. And the question is, and it's less than rent, so is that a reasonable thing that Yes, you own it.

Okay. And I suspect it's going to go up in value, is it not? I would hope so.

Well, I mean, is the area okay or you moving into the a bad neighborhood?

It It has potential.

You sound like someone dating someone.

It has potential. Well, I mean, I just feel like I'm going from the state of of

of savings account, which in guaranteed funds to real estate, and I'm like, buying a piece of real estate for 200,000 and having fees associated with it still around 1,400 if they're compared if they're if they're market comparable in the area does not sound like a bad idea, as long as you're not buying in a bad neighborhood where you're going to be unsafe or where the property values are going down instead of up because of crime or something else. And so that's the only thing you've got to consider. But um cuz 200,000 sounds like a very inexpensive condo in Trenton, New Jersey to me.

property values there are pretty high.

So but I mean you look at that and if you feel comfortable with the the long-term implications of owning this, meaning it's going to go up in value and the HOA fee is comparable to others and the taxes are comparable to others. I like the idea of you owning rather than renting to stabilize your future. Yep.

Amen. Good luck, Tina. So, you're gonna be a condo living lady. There you go.

So, um, Rachel, it's one of the things that, you know, your most expensive line item in your budget, folks, is housing

in almost everyone's budget anyway. And if you rent, it goes up every year for the rest of your life. And so, if you retire at 60 or 65 and you say, "I'm going to rent until I'm 90," you're, you know, your your most expensive line item is going up every year. Yep. And so what you get when you buy, even if you had a mortgage payment, a fixed rate 15-year mortgage payment, even if you had that, when you buy, you have locked in and stabilized the

largest line item in your budget. So it's stabilizing your golden years is what we're doing. In her case, she's paying cash, which is awesome. It's even better. Way to go. And

she's only got, you know, to the maintenance issues. Yep. And so totally, you know, she the HOA is covering her maintenance on the exterior portions anyway. And and there's no line item there. I mean, besides the maintenance and the HOA, she's got this coming out.

There's no mortgage. The the HOA fee may go up some as taxes and the taxes and the insurance probably will go up some as you go along. Um and make sure you have your insurance reviewed every year and that you keep the proper amount of coverage even if it does go up a little.

Mhm. Um and um property taxes, I mean,

politicians just can't keep their hands out of our pockets. So, you can count on that. And um you know, the maintenance

stuff may or may not go up or down. You can run into all kinds of stuff there. But I would rather be in an ownership position because a it's going up in value and b I've stabilized that more ex that most expensive line item in the budget. And that's why we always tell people, especially when you heading into your retirement years from 60 and above, that you you really need to get into a property, you really need to get it paid off because you're you're locking in your future.

You've got a foundational issue here in your future.

No, that's good.

Open phones here at 888255225.

Thank you for jumping in, America. John is in Salt Lake. John, I'm short on time. Go straight to your question.

Hey, so I got an infant and a a new a

toddler and a new baby and we got about $36,000 in debt and I make about 3,200 a

year and I have no idea. 3200 a month.

32,000 a year. 3200 32 uh,000 a year.

Oh, thousand. Okay, that's helpful.

Okay, good.

I don't know what to do with it. I'm just over my head with it. What do you do? What do you do for different places?

I uh I'm a scrap iron worker. Okay. And what do you make? Are you an hour?

So, I usually make about $15,

but I get some overtime, too. Okay. All right. Well, Target's paying 20.

Yeah. I've never had a birth certificate or social security number, and that's a whole ordeal of itself.

Okay. Well, that'd be something to work on, wouldn't it?

Yeah, it's been a long ordeal. Yeah.

Expensive one, too. Yeah. I I think I'd work on that because it's going to help your employment options because your your biggest issue is you have a very low income.

Yes. What is the 36,000? I'm not picking on you. That's not a shaming thing. It's a math thing. What's the 36,000 um entail the debt?

So, we had different uh credit card

debts and then like the majority of it is I had to take a loan from my dad for the first baby and that was $9,000.

There was a complication. We were trying to have an at home birth and there had to be a C-section and so we were able to

pay for that through a thing called a STOR program. It was 9,000 and then we just had to had to borrow that from my dad. We had had it paid down about 4,000 of it and then we also had to pay for

the surgeon and doctors and then we had another baby and there was another complication. I'm sorry, John. It's a hard time, dude. The answer to the equation is is the things you were already working on is you get a more stabilized, more normalized life with a birth certificate and then you're able to get more normal employment and raise your income considerably and that's going to help a bunch, honey. And that's what you need to be working towards. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions.

Possibly. Yeah, I think so. Okay.

Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. Well, credit unions, for one thing, are uh nonprofit, which means

that the members, the customers own the

credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing.

And and but that's what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really really good job with customer service and um the deals that they're offering. The Ramsay tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach they so line up with.

And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. Yeah. And I'm not kidding.

It took less than 5 minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone.

So, I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, "Yeah, they give calls to every new customer." And so, again, they just really care about your experience. And I I so so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

how much I hate banks in general. And so, for me to do this is a big deal.

talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds, no matter where you live. So, go to fair winds.org/ramsey.

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aldi us. Wendy is in Cincinnati. Hi Wendy.

How are you?

Hi. I'm doing good. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. Um hi. Sorry. My question

is um so now my husband and I we are um

looking into getting a divorce and I am trying to he want everything in half

half of everything but I'm trying to find a way that is more um fair for both of us. So um back to

when we got married um how long have you been married years ago? 10 years. Why are you divorcing?

Um that's where I'm about to get to is uh financial infidelity. So um and just

a lot beyond that. So um so 10 years ago

when he walked into the we we got married and he was in 300 300,000

student loan. Um, so we, you know, I

kind of came up with a plan to help him pay it off. It's that, um, we basically

spend nothing. Um, and,

um, he has to make another extra $1,000

a month. So, which is, you know, working picking up a weekend a month about that.

So, 10 years ago, he came into the marriage with $300,000 in student loan debt. You guys teamed up and paid it off.

Uh, sorry. I I couldn't hear, but I 10

years ago you said you got married and he came in with $300,000 in student loan debt and you guys teamed up and got it all paid off. I wish the team up is um

is the case, but that wasn't really the case. So 10 years ago, I kind of came up with a plan. So he's have to pick up another $1,000 a month and we are going to invest in rental unit and the rental income basically going to help pay off our expense and pay it off. So what ended up happening is um he did not

ended up doing any of those extra hour

which refused to pick up any shift because he said that's not his life passion and uh the mental income he

ended up took it he took it and spent it. So what do you what have you been making Wendy? What do you make a year? I make 140,000. Okay. And you put up with

this crap for 10 years. I would put on

for way too long. And the thing that now it gave me a lot of I try to always believe that you know he just needs some more time. So I ended up working two jobs. I am the one ended up picking those extra shift to help him pay because every time when it come to when bills need to be paid just say he doesn't have the money. Yeah excessively. I got really bad news honey.

I'm sorry. The law doesn't care.

In Ohio, when you get a divorce, you're going to split things 50/50.

Unless there's something else other than you just earned more and he was lazy.

That one doesn't work.

That's what the lawyer's going to tell you when you sit with them. But you need to go sit with a lawyer and find out for sure. But I think that's what you're going to hear.

Okay. That you put up with this for too long.

For way too long. Yeah. For way too long. So, what do you guys actually own?

Do you actually own anything? Money?

Yeah, we own a rental property and also

our current home also

uh the rental property worth 300,000 around there. Our current home worth about uh 400,000. How much debt on the

700,000 real estate?

Um yes. So, everything is paid off. Oh, it's all paid off. Oh jeez. Oh god. Um,

and you did all of this with your sweat while he sat at home and because it wasn't his passion to work much. Do you have kids, Wendy?

Yes, we have a kid. And that's what my my So, we moved to the state where his

family is. So, I really don't have a support network. And when we got married, he agreed that we only going to live here for a few years and then we're going to move to You volunteered for all this. Okay. You can't you stayed put

when you you had the option to say no on any of this. and put it to an end earlier than you did. So, it's now over.

I'm sorry. Where are you guys in the divorce process? Wendy, have you filed?

She hadn't even talked to a lawyer yet.

Have you? We are. We are just Yeah, we at the beginning of it. Okay. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm sorry, but what you're going to discover is what a friend of mine who does divorce recovery figured out, and that is is that divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction and a legal transaction. And the law will state that child support, maybe some alimony, maybe you'll get some alimony out of him, but I doubt it. Um, doesn't sound like this guy's exactly going to be coming forth with a bunch of money.

Maybe you can negotiate a large, you know, let him have the rental and you take the big house or something. You may get a little more than half in a settlement in a settled deal if the judge will approve it in Ohio law. I don't know Ohio law and I and I'm not an attorney even if I did. So, you need to talk to one.

was a stay-at-home mom and didn't earn an income for 10 years, she gets half.

That's what I was thinking about. If the if if it was she gets half and your husband's a, you know, not work much while you work all the time. Yeah. He gets half. I mean, you s you you

tolerated it. And so, um, I'm not saying you did something wrong. I'm glad you hung on, tried to make it work. But that's where you're stuck with, kiddo.

I'm sorry. That's an ouchie. M well and

it it's one of those things too. I'm like where things start when it's starting out all the intentions are good, right? Mhm. And then you start to watch it just drift and drift and drift and until a huge red flag is thrown, it

ends up getting here. But but but that's the thing too is I'm like if it was a if it was opposite if this was a guy calling and saying his wife was home, right? Why does it why does it make us well if she was at home saying it's not my passion to work much after she had made a commitment with $300,000 worth of student loan debt to to work and help get it paid off. I'm going to bring down on her just like I'm going to bring down on him.

Nobody gets out of that one alive. Yeah.

know this is someone who someone else his mommy has taken care of him his whole life. I I was hearing so his wife was his new mommy and that's what happened. He's a mama's boy and Oh yeah.

What a mess. The only the only positive Wendy out of all of this is he's gone.

Well, I mean seriously, I'm like the the attitude and the the mood that he probably brings her down day after day.

Yeah. And you'll be free from it and you may make more money Wendy being out of the situation. You definitely will. You'll definitely will. It is one of those things you just have to It's easier to swim without an anchor tie around you. Yeah. It's just way easier.

Yeah, you're gonna bust out, girl. It's gonna be great. I'm sorry. I hate doing I do get a lawyer because I do I hate people ending marriages, but you know, it's u sounds like you got rid of a Yeah,

you get a you get a fresh start, kiddo.

And uh with or without some rental property and with or without the details on the house, but you know, even if you just p sell it all and pile it up in one pile and split it down the middle, you're going to be okay. You're going to be fine. you're you're you're going to be all right and you can live wherever you want to live. You don't have to live there.

If you don't want to live near his family, take off. Go back where you were. Go back where you want to be. You get to decide now.

And so the the future is bright. There were a lot of storms in the past in the rearview mirror, but they're all in the past. Well, soon soon to be anyway.

You ever tried to explain this Ramsay stuff to a friend? It's kind of all-encompassing. A little bit hard to just go and put it all out there, right?

So, we're going to help you with that. We built a Ramsey 101 playlist.

I say we, I had nothing to do with it except I'm on it, but um it's an easy to

share playlist. It covers all the basics for somebody who's just getting started with this whole Ramsey thing. Like what are the baby steps or how's the debt snowball work or how's a budget work or how to build an emergency fund or why do they talk about God? All this stuff. It's all on there. Click the link at the bottom of the show notes. You open Ramsay 101 playlist on YouTube. Text it,

DM it, send it to a group chat. Say, "Hey guys, I think this might help." Don't go, "You're stupid." Start doing this. That won't help. Don't be condemning with it.

Be nice and just go, "I hope this helps you. It helped me." Or, "I'm I think this is funny. Give it a look." Whatever. Um, so if you're listening on the radio, we got a playlist featured at the top of our YouTube channel.

Uh, so think of at least one person in your life and share it with them and it could change everything. We appreciate it.

So, thank you for sharing. And when you say nice things like fivestar reviews and stuff, kind of nice. Thank you. We appreciate it. All right, Jennifer's in Chicago. What's up, Jennifer? Hi, Dave

and Rachel. I'm I'm just so excited to be talking to you today. I literally just found you guys literally 30 days ago. So, I'm really excited. Well, thank you. Welcome. Thank you. Um I have a

question. I got served a lawsuit last night. Um for I have credit card debt

that's all in collections. For context, I'm 38 years old and I'm finally awake

to my life. I've spent my adult years in

and out of psychiatric hospitals. m um

trying to you know suicide due to my

childhood. So now that I've unpacked that and I feel like I'm in a healthier spot, I really just I want to be debt free and listening to you guys like I feel like this is my first route. Wow.

What do you make? What's your income? Uh 40,000. Good for you. Okay. Well, I'm proud of you for getting stable. That's that's a quite a journey. Thank you.

Well done. It's been a journey. Okay.

Okay. How much do you owe on this particular credit card? This one is 1,200. And how long has it been since you paid on it? Um 2022.

Okay. All right. And who was the original bank? Uh Credit One. Okay. All

right. There's a high likelihood like almost for sure that they have sold that debt.

They have sold it to a credit bureau or

credit agency, a collection agency. It's a debt buyer. Okay. debt buyers buy old

bad credit card debt for around a nickel on the dollar.

Okay? And so that means they've got somewhere around $75 invested in this.

Okay?

And what they do then is they buy like

8,000 of these accounts and they badger the crap out of people and sue people until they get some money out of some of them. Most of them file bankruptcy and they get nothing. But a few people pay it and they end up because they only paid a nickel on the dollar, they end up on average making some money. Mhm. So

this is not personal. This is not personal. This has nothing to do with you. You just you just got put on a conveyor belt in a factory.

That's what this is. Okay. There's 8,000 that look just like you that they processed last night.

You follow me? Yes. I I want you to get that scarier than it is. Yeah. I got I want you to get that because it's different than you owe your little brother money. Okay. A

different set of emotions, but they're going to try to tap into the little brother money emotions when you get on the phone with them because most of them the function that they use to collect is being a jerk.

So, they're going to be jerks. I'm afraid of they're No, you can count on it. So, just make a game of it. Okay.

I'm calling a jerk. Here we go. Ready, set, go. It's not personal.

He doesn't know anything about me. He has a crummy job where he abuses people verbally over the phone to try to get money. That's who you're calling. Okay.

Okay. Just kind of have fun with it. And sometimes they even change their name. They make up funny names.

Well, and the and the the turnover in that industry is like 30 to 60 days. So, the guy you're talking to will probably have a new job in two months anyway. So, just remember that. Like, it this is like Okay.

Okay. Really think about it. I mean, what a horrible job. Yeah. So, this is what you're dealing with. And if you have these pieces of information, then it helps you. So, do you have any money?

I have about 3,000 in the bank right now. Good. Do you have Did they give you a court date when they served you? Yes, they did. When? Uh, it is on the 24th.

Good. Okay. I don't care if it goes to

court and they win. No big deal. nothing

really changes. They're still trying to collect from someone that they don't get money from. So, when you get on the phone, here's a couple of pointers. Number one, this is a game. Don't let this get into your psyche. Okay? Okay?

Their job is to make you afraid or angry because when your brain does that, you move into fight or flight mode and you lose your critical thinking skills. Mhm.

That's their job and they're very good at it. Be ready. Okay. Okay. One of them

called from American Express when I was going broke 30 years ago and asked my wife why she would stay with a man that wouldn't pay his bills. And she called me crying and said, "I was thinking the same thing." Oh my god. Right. This is what they do.

Okay. Okay. Bit ready. And so this is a

And by the way, that guy's that woman's name was Mrs. Savage. Oh, stop it. Okay.

So, I mean, this is how this is how ridiculous this world is. It's ridiculous. So this is what you're entering into. You need to know that because you got to stay above it, especially with what you've been through. Okay. Absolutely. So this is a game. Number one. Number two, they didn't pay anything for it. Number three, we're not giving them payments.

Say no payments, Dave.

No payments, Dave. No payments. My financial counselor told me I can't give you payments. I'm your counselor and I just told you you can't. Okay.

Wonderful. Okay. You can bad guy off of me and tell him Dave Ramsey said it.

That'll make them real happy. Okay. I get pissed. Yeah. And so, all right.

That that this is just fun. Let's have some fun with it. Right. And so, no payments. And what we're going to do is I just came out of a mental episode

where I've been fighting suicide and I don't have any money. I think I can scrape together $300 if you will accept

that as here's the phrase, settlement in full.

Okay. and somewhere three to 500 bucks you'll get this done. And do not give them any

information about you.

No contact information, no new job, no

bank accounts, no bank account information. They get no information.

We're not going to give them any leverage. This is you're playing with evil.

Don't give evil a foothold. Okay. Okay.

And so, no information. It's a game.

We're going to settle it for a lump sum.

No payments. And lastly, do not give

them any money until you get it in writing what the agreement is

because Jim Bob ain't going to be working there in 30 days.

I'm writing all my notes down. Okay. Has to be email or or email's fine. Has to

be in writing in some way. And then you print the email out, hard copy, and keep it in a file for the rest of your life.

Okay? Because you can tell these people are lying if their mouth is moving.

Okay? All right. This is what you're dealing with. It's a different culture.

Now, I have all my credit card debt is in collections. Can I handle all do every one of them that way if you want to? Okay. Or if you got a small one, just pay it for God's sakes and get it out of there. How much do you have, Jennifer, in debt total? So, I had

$10,000 in credit card debt. I actually hired a credit consultation company and they got 6,000 just wiped away. Okay,

good. So, now down to four. Okay, that's great. Well, then you and you got three, so you can get this clear pretty quick cuz let me tell you, with what you've been through and with you establishing a new life of sustainability, putting this stuff in your rearview mirror as soon as possible and not keeping it, not screwing around with it for 6 months is a good idea.

Is that all the debt you have, Jennifer? Is just the credit card debt or student loans or car loans? Six in student loans. Okay.

All right. And you'll have to circle back and pick that up, too. But I want to get these I want to get the You got all these a beehive that got poked and the bees are flying around your head. Yes.

So, let's get rid of them. But you got to just play this game. It's a part of it. And get it in writing and no electronic access to your personal bank account. You can do a prepaid debit card with the exact amount and send them that. You can do a wire. You can do something. But no, no, no. They do not

get your bank account numbers cuz they'll clean it out. They lie. You can tell they're lying if their mouth is moving. Can you tell I've done this for 30 years?

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Jason is with us in Tampa. Hey Jason,

what's up? Oh man, I got the goat on the

phone. I can't believe it.

Yes, Rachel's here.

I like you, too, Rachel. Oh, thanks, Jason. I know who you called for, though. And you got him. He's in the seat. He's not in the seat as much anymore, but here he is. What's up? So,

Dave. All right. And Rachel, I need I I've got to figure this out. My parents home was flooded by Hurricane Helen uh

last September. So they came to my

brother and my sister and myself and said, "Hey, we're too old. We can't fix it. If you if one of you want it, pay the other each that other siblings other

two siblings a third of the value that we come up with and we want to be done with it or we're just going to sell it.

What do y'all want to do?" Well, I was the only one that wanted it. So, we came up with a value and um and I paid my

sister and my brother a third of the value that everyone agreed to. Well, actually, they didn't even agree because they thought what my value was too low.

So, I actually went and got an appraisal done just so there would be no hanky panky. It actually came in 60,000 less

than what my original um assessment was.

And I still agreed to pay 60,000 more

than what the actual appraisal. Why?

Because I wanted this little home cuz it was just a little beach house that it was just meant something to me. So I wanted it. I paid my sister and my brother the money. My parents quick claim deed it to me. I fixed it all up.

It's back to being beautiful. Just in time for hurricane season again, but it's back to being beautiful. And now all of a sudden my sister says, "Oh, this was such an unfair deal. I can't believe we even did this. I'll never feel comfortable with it." Oh, wow. No

one ever. So, what do I do? I mean, now it's causing a strain in the family, and I don't know what I did wrong. I thought I did everything right. Well, you didn't have agreement.

That's what I thought we Well, we did.

And And then all now all of a sudden we don't because we did. But that's what I'm like. Well, did they did they I mean it was it was all ver it was all verbal.

Correct. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But they were they were bitching and moaning on the front end. That That's what I said. No one said any No, they did. They said it was not enough. And so you went and got an appraisal. They were moaning.

And then I my appraisal came into I know. But they still didn't think it was right. They still didn't think it was right. And you did it anyway.

So what should Yeah. What I would have my fault then? Yeah. I would have walked or I would have had them sign something.

Yeah, maybe I should have done a some kind of signature on something. Not not illegally binding, but just to remind them that, you know, because their memory is bad apparently. I thought paying 60 grand over No, not if they thought Not if they thought the amount even was 60 was not right.

Was the value lowered because of the damage at all, Jason? Yeah. I'm sorry.

And the value was lowered because of the damage. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So, you had a number, you put it out there, and they said, "That's not fair." And you said, "I'll show you." You went and got an appraisal, and the appraisal was 60,000 lower. So, you paid them the higher number, but they also thought that number higher wasn't fair.

Well, with just the sister, everyone else. Well, I mean, that still that So, what' you expect? I mean, she she'd

already told you she was going to be unhappy. This just came up a couple weeks ago. No, honey. You told me in the original deal that they thought it wasn't enough.

So, you went and got an appraisal and you agreed to pay the original amount that they thought wasn't enough. And when you paid it, they still thought it wasn't enough. And now she still thinks it wasn't enough. Well, that's not a shock.

And I guess she's going to have to deal with it because that's that she cashed the check, right? Or I'm sorry. She cashed the check. You bet she did. All right. He sure did. Deal's done, you know. Yeah. And no one lifted

a finger to help me fix it up either.

So, well, it wasn't their job. They didn't own it. That's your job. Yeah.

I'm like, and that's and that was fine.

But yeah, I'm like, you know, I just say, listen, you did a deal. You're like a grown adult woman. Act like it. How

old are you guys, Jason?

I'm 50. She's 45. Oh. And then my

brother's in his 50s. Uh, we're older than I was. He's 55. Okay. We were Yeah, we're all We're all older adults and Well, I think I think she told you on the front end she was going to be unhappy and you just didn't want to hear it. Yeah. And then now she's coming

through. Now she's coming through with her promise. But that's okay. I mean, she she cashed the check and I just looked at her and go, "Hey, baby. Good luck with that." I

I said that's kind of what I've done so far. But I mean, anything you can do, you can't make people behave. Yeah. even

if they're in your DNA line, you know. I

guess have you guys sat down and had any level of conversation in person about this? Well, originally when we first but

not since the last thing or this that I'm talking about this was this she we talked on the phone about something else and then this was just was brought up and I'm like where did that come from?

That would have been valuable information. If there's any level of you that wants to save the relationship, I would have a conversation in person.

take all your defensiveness about this,

you know, swallow a humble pill for a little bit. Let her kind of get out what she needs to get out and just say, "Okay, how do we move forward?" Because I don't want to lose a relationship with my sister, right? It's family and for a house to do this. Um, that's not that for the future.

But you, but again, and there's that part where you cash the check. Put your Yeah. Put the olive branch out and if she won't accept it, that that's her choice at that point, right? But I would I would go in.

I'm never going to be okay. Well, that's you know, therapist. You're very humble, though. You have a big personality, Jason.

We heard it from the moment you got on. I love it. I think it's wonderful. But maybe just like take a p like take a little bit of a chill as you go in like low like right like I mean go in not defensive, not aggressive.

Go watch Jefferson Fisher videos and just Yeah. But but honestly, if you really want to repair it like there's there's something there. And then beyond that, you've tried.

Yeah, you can't control her then. But yeah, you probably don't. I think you need to follow Rachel's advice, not mine. Mine's just smart. IC. I know.

That's my problem. I'm more I'm like you, Dave. I think I think Rachel's right and I'm wrong. I think Rachel's right and I'm wrong. Really? Oh, man.

All right. Rachel, can you call my sister for me? I will. No. No. Hey, by

the way, that Jefferson Fitcher uh episode was next to the Trump episode was two are two of my favorite really good. I wasn't kidding. I probably would go watch some of that because that's the type of stuff Rachel's talking about rather than doing Dave thing and just smacking her sideways. Oh my god.

Because that's not gonna work because that's all I'm saying. I'm just being a smart guy. What are the other siblings? I know.

Jason, what's your other siblings like? Would you say brother? Yeah, he's okay. He He hasn't had any issues.

Okay. So, it's you three. Yeah. Yeah.

So, brother's fine, sisters. I know. I just hate when like assets, money, all of that gets in between family. We hear it a lot on the show and it's really sad. It's really sad. Um, so if you want it repaired or maybe maybe she's crazy and you're like, I don't know. I got to put up a boundary. I don't know. I don't know her, but if you want to repair the relationship, it's You want to give it a shot? I think Rachel's right. I'm wrong.

Yeah. Okay, good, man. I'm always more fun, though. Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 21:20.

Precious treasure and oil are in a wise

man's dwelling, but a foolish man

devours all.

That's the Bible saying, if you spend everything you make, you're a fool.

Hello. Think about it. Michael Douglas said, "A fool and his money are lucky to get together in the first place."

Gary's in uh Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hey, Gary. What's up? Hey, gang. Thanks for uh taking my call. Um so, I retired

uh about a year and a half ago. Um I'm 69 and um I've got uh my assets um no

debt. Um, and I'm just wondering if what

I have everything invested in is if if I'm doing the right thing. Um,

so my house uh is worth about 700. It'll

be paid off by the end of the year.

Good. Um, I'm holding off on social when

I turn 70 in January and take with my

wife taking advantage of the uh spousal benefits. So, I'm get estimating that we'll have about 80,000 a year in social security and my the remaining uh is 2.1

million in um three IAS and another

account that's uh cash and some stock.

What's what are they in a invested in?

Mutual funds.

Yes. Yes. uh three different mutual funds about they're about 1.7 million and then the cash and stock is about 430

of that the about 80,000 is in four or

five different stocks and about 300,000 or so in a money market which is currently drawing around 4%. Okay. All

right. And and the other thing your question is what then you've done really well. Congratulations. Am I am I could I

be doing better than what I'm doing as far as what what I'm invested in?

Uh well, I mean, all I'm 64. All of mine

is in mutual funds and paid for real estate. And so, um uh you know, we put

it in four types of mutual funds. You've heard that. Growth, growth in income, aggressive growth, and international. I don't play single stocks just because I don't like the risk associated with them.

I'd rather have that money uh diversified in mutual funds, but it's not the end of the world. It's a small percentage of your world, and you've done you've done extremely well. And it sound like you're maybe a little heavy in cash unless you got something you're wanting to do with that. Are you getting ready to buy a car or go on a trip or something?

No. Okay. I mean, you don't need a $300,000 emergency fund.

Yeah. Uh, also when I start getting our

um social in in January, I based upon

our expenses, I'm hoping to maybe save about 2,000 a month out of that. Yeah.

So, be great. Well, and be sure you're being, you know, enjoying this and that your generosity goes up because you're a multi-millionaire. Congratulations.

Yeah, I'm already starting to plan a couple of uh trips like over to Europe and stuff. Good. Good. Yeah, I mean, you've earned it. Well done. And I assume you guys did not inherit this money. It sounds like it's 401ks like you saved it, right? Yeah. Right. Right.

You're not you're not an inherited uh you're a baby step millionaire, meaning you did it following Well, my mom my mom my mom did pass away about almost uh 5

years ago and uh my sister and I finally

sold our house plus the assets I think I ended up getting over the last 5 years.

You you cut out getting how much

did I lose you? Oh, no.

Well, okay. You're in good shape, dude.

You've done a good job and you're fine.

If you want to fine-tune it a little bit and, you know, get a little bit more dialed in with it, that's fine. It sounds like you are not a millionaire that you already were probably before your mom passed. And so, you've just added to your wealth, whatever that amount was that cut out. Yeah.

And his question, I think, was, is there anything different he needs to be doing? Because when you retire and you start living off of some of these invest off of some of these investments, is there a big shift in I don't the strategy.

There a lot of the wealth uh a lot of the financial planning community believes in a theory I don't believe in called the asset allocation methodology which is you move everything towards bonds and money markets as you get older. And I don't uh the bond market's

as volatile as the stock market and underperforms the stock market. So I I'm 64. I'm not moving a thing. And so I'm just, you know, when you're 64, if you're healthy, you are statistically likely to make it to 90 where the average death age is 76 to 78, male, female right now. But you're statistically likely to make it to 90 if you're healthy at 65. So you've still got 30 freaking years to outpace inflation. And when you dumb down your portfolio in the name of safety, uh,

inflation's going to come back and tag you in the back of the head. So, I don't I don't need the money. He doesn't need the money. He's going to be living off the social. Yeah. It's a lot. And so, that money That's pretty Is that pretty average? 80 grand. That's heavy. Well, it's he and his wife and they're both 70.

They're doing the long term. Yeah. So, that's the um that Yeah, that could be.

Um uh but uh yeah, I I don't do that. I

I I'm going to ride it all the way out because here's the thing. If you've got 2.1 million and you're living off $80,000 a year worth of social, you're not really investing this money for you.

You're not going to use it.

It's laying there, but it's going to get it's going to be an inheritance. Yeah. So, you're investing it for the next generation, which means you would not shift it and dumb it down in the name of the asset allocation model or theory.

And people act like that like that's a given and it's a law or something. It's not. It's a theory and I think it's a bad one. So, I don't I don't use it. I I

am investing all the way through and he doesn't need to use it. He's fine. He's in good shape. Uh Diane's in Atlanta. Hi Diane. How can we help?

Hey guys. So excited. Um thank you for

taking my call. Absolutely. What's up?

I'm just middle of cooking dinner for two hungry boys. Um and you may hear

them in the background and I apologize for that. Um, so I really wanted to call because

just in a nutshell, I I am a nurse. I went to school. I have my bachelor's of science and nursing. I am not working right now. I'm a stay-at-home mom. Um, my husband is an isn't physician and makes good money. What's good money? We

540. Oh, that's good money. Okay, I'm with you. All right. So, I'm a little short on time. Ask your question right quick. Okay. So, um our oldest um has special

needs. Um he has level three autism.

He's non-verbal. He's seven years old now. So, it's really hard to look far into the future, but the way his development is moving it I mean, he'll be with us. He's going to be our roommate forever. Um so, you know, my I

just don't know how much we need to be saving for him. like those two. You don't you need to save for you. You need to build wealth and you need to have in your estate plan a special needs trust

that if you and your husband both pass away that the a chunk of money an

inordinate chunk of money is left in trust the income of which will the

invested in mutual funds the income of which will support him for the rest of his life. Okay. But it's your money.

It's not his. You don't put money in his name.

No, I don't have any. Oh. Oh, in in his name. Yes. You put it in your name. You make $540,000 a year. You go build wealth and some of your wealth is earmarked upon both of your deaths to go into the special needs trust to take care of him.

Okay. So, um

Okay. So, as far as debt and what we make and all that, just you got to work the normal stuff. Just work the debt snowball. Get out of debt. Get your house paid off. go become a multi-millionaire making a half million freaking dollars a year. How much debt do you guys have?

Uh we have about We don't have any student loans. Good. We have um probably

70,000 in cars. Well, that was stupid.

Yeah, it was very stupid. Let's get it paid off. So, we got Well, we got I kind

of got my car as a push present, if you

will, in 2021. And then my husband was like, "Okay, push pay it off. Push.

Yeah. Poof it off. Come on. You've got to be kidding me. Oh my gosh. All right.

No, that's uh um No, we're gonna You need to get this mess cleaned up. Okay.

And you guys need to get on the baby steps and work just because you need to.

The special needs thing is almost a sidebar in the sense of it gives you yet one more motivation to build wealth and get your act together to make sure you have enough to leave in there. If you're broke and have no money right now, you need life insurance here marked for the special needs trust until you get some wealth built. But with the kind of money y'all make, you get rid of the stupid car payments and start stacking cash and building you some investments, get your house paid off, there'll be plenty of money to take care of your kid and just see your see your estate planner, make sure there's a special needs trust set up earmarked with uh term life insurance until you have some money.

And after you have some money, earmark some of the money into that to take care of him and he'll be fine. You if as long as assuming you guys get your act together, he'll be fine. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

Hey you guys, I was shocked to learn that 88% of you out there are sharing the Ramsay Show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So, this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsay 101 YouTube playlist, a quick

start collection of how to get started walking the Ramsay plan. Now, this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't know where to start. So, here's what's inside. What the baby steps are and why they actually work.

How the debt snowball helps you pay off debt fast and how to build wealth and invest for the future. and so much more. So, here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes.

send it in a group chat. Just say, "Hey, I thought this might help." Because one playlist shared at the right time could be the turning point. One share, one

playlist, one step could change everything for that one person in your life. So, click the link, share the Ramsay Show, and let's help someone out there start winning with money.

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## 68. Fix The Money Mess That’s Stressing You Out | May 29, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Rachel

Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co-host today. The phone number here is88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Liz is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey Liz, what's up?

>> Hey, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, I'm calling because about 3 years ago, I had discovered that my husband

had amassed a pretty substantial

amount of debt. Just kind of a combination of bad decisions, bad luck,

overspending. Um, and I had kind of

stupidly let him, you know, he was bringing in most of the money. I had let him take control. So, um, about 3 years

ago, I started managing our finances.

And, um, I've been able to kind of re

some and make some progress, but my my

job that the past two years had been pretty steady has slowed back down. And so every for the last three months,

we're about $2700 short a month. Um

>> I know. And um I just I don't really

know what to do because I've put our

household expenses to nothing. I've gotten rid of. The only two things I could still get rid of are um our home

security system, which is $25 a month, and then house cleaning for my mental

health.

But other than that, I've I've gotten rid of extras. Um

>> how much debt is there?

>> Probably right now about 200,000.

>> Okay. >> All consumer debt. is >> it's um he took out a helock. Um there's

some credit card debt, two car payments.

>> Oh, what do you owe on your cars >> between the two of them? 48,000.

>> Break them down to him for me.

>> Um his truck is about 18 and mine is um

like 33 or so.

>> Mhm. And And what do you make a year and what does he make a year?

He makes with his bonus about 160,000 a

year. >> My job varies. I work on an as needed

basis for a law firm. So, the past two to three years, I'm I made about 90,000,

but um I'm probably tracking this year

what it had been like the previous five years, which is 45 cuz I

>> What you gave me does not equal $250,000

worth of expenses.

Where is this money going?

What's your house payment? Um, our house payment is $1,900

and then we have a heliloc which is $470 a month. >> Yeah, but that's only $2,500. That's only $30,000 a year and you have a $250,000 household income.

>> Well, I guess I'm factoring in like all the like the debt, all the monthly payments we're making.

>> Yeah, I am too. I don't get to $2,700 upside down.

>> Your your household income is $20,000 a month.

No, it's Well, >> no, it is. I mean, not that's not your take-home pay, but your household income is $20,000 a month.

>> 160 + 90 is 250. That's $20,000.

>> I hit your account every month, Liz, what what do you actually have to work with after taxes?

>> Right now, what we're working with is about 7700 a month because I haven't

been working. >> Where's the other $13,000 a month going?

That's Are you still putting money? Are you still putting I know she's not working. >> She's not She's not at 90 anymore. She's at 60. >> She's at 45. And And your husband's 160?

>> Yeah. But the uh So,

uh >> but even at a $160,000 income.

>> Yeah. Are you putting money in a 401k still?

>> Um he does.

I don't. >> Well, you manage the money now. So, yeah, we are putting money in his 401k.

>> Okay. We Yes. >> Okay. And um what else is coming out of your checks >> other than taxes? >> Insurance. >> Mhm. >> Um he has this debt where he

this company called Beyond Finance. So that's 750 a month that he's paying towards something that he had them

some debt consolidation company >> and that comes out of his check >> that comes directly out of his well it comes it just autodrafts out of our >> No that's checking account you that's after700 went in and I'm still trying to

find like $10,000 a month that's missing

and so far the only place I found it going is a 401k >> well I mean his his take-home pay is he

gets after taxes like 3,400

every two weeks

>> and then he gets a big bonus in January which we use this year to pay off a credit card. >> Well, that's 7,000

>> and then you bring in 700 a month is what you're saying because you said 7,700 hits your account every month. I

mean, that's what it's been the last like 3 to four months because I haven't really been working.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, can you pick up the same type of position somewhere else since this since they've slowed you down?

>> I can't because um I work for a law firm

and I'm covered by their liability insurance. So, I I can't do the same kind of work for anyone else because of I mean, is there another law firm that'll hire you and quit those guys?

Uh, I mean, I've been looking. I haven't found anything yet. >> Yeah, cuz you're, you know, we're we're not going to stay at 45 when we have a market income or market value of 100.

Okay. So, a couple of things. Uh, backing up then, um, so number one, the

two of you need to sit down together and work on the budget. You can do the details, but he needs to feel the weight

of the responsibility of this with you and be carrying it emotionally. You're carrying it by yourself and it's crushing you. I can hear it in your voice.

Okay? And you're still harboring a large

amount of resentment, which is fair.

You're still pissed off about him running $200,000 in the hole without bothering to tell anybody. Okay, that's thing one, though. the you're not g your only shot at your marriage getting through this is the two of you hooking arms putting your both of you putting your shoulders in the same uh into the

harness together and pulling this wagon together. Okay, now you can do the details. You're the detail person and you definitely have to know what's going on cuz we can't count on him. Okay, so that's thing one. thing too. Then once you're doing that, then I want you to go find where all this money is going cuz stop his 401k immediately. You don't go $2,700 in the hole while funding a 401k.

That's not logical. That's borrowing money to put it in a 401k. No, I'm not doing that. So stop his 401k in the morning or tonight or whatever. Um, stop

yours. No saving money. No investing money. >> And I'd be selling the cars at this point. >> That's the next one. Sell the cars.

>> Mhm. >> These cars have got to go. They're they're crazy in this situation. But you've got to go find where all this money is going. Cuz when you add this up and look at the gross gross amount that you guys have been making and you're only getting $7,000 home, something's wrong. If you got a huge tax refund,

something's wrong. There's a big gaping holes in this. >> If his 160 is the bonus, which they use to pay off the credit cards, that's not that's not in the paychecks the other month either. But >> you got to figure out where all this is going cuz it's not it doesn't add up to 250,000. And that's where we got to get to.

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Jay's in Oklahoma City. Hi Jay. How are you? >> I'm doing well. I'm doing well. How are you all? >> Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? >> Yes, I'm just calling. Um I am 27 years

old. I still currently live with my parents. Um I am 35 to $45,000 in debt.

Um that's with credit cards, vehicle loans, and personal loans. and I make

roughly 32 to 3500 a month. Um, I work

two jobs and I'm going to school and I'm

just, you know, very overwhelmed and I

just feel like I'm financially behind in life. >> Wow. So, did you say you had two car

debts?

>> Uh, yes. Um, they it's a 2021 Hyundai Elantre and a

2018 Denali. Um, the Elantra I have

about 11,000 left on it. Uh, the Denali

I have 21,000 left on it.

>> Are you married?

>> I am not. I am not. >> Why do you have two cars?

>> Uh, the 2021 Hyundai Elantre is mine.

Um, the 2018 Denali is my father's. Um

he is disabled so he is on a fixed

income and he had no vehicle. Uh he had

one but that broke down on them and we both needed reliable cars. So that I

believe looking back on it was too much of a burden to take on. >> Yeah. You need to sell it.

You can't afford the Denali. It's one of your problems. What's the nature of your father's disability, hun?

>> He has uh nerve damage and he has severe

arthritis in his hands.

>> So, um >> and what what >> some days >> are are you you said you're living with your parents? Your mom is involved, too.

>> Uh yes, she is the only one working.

What does she make?

>> She makes about She makes 20 an hour.

>> Okay. And your dad has disability income coming in, I assume.

>> Uh, yes. >> Was the um was uh is this just SSI or

was he military or >> um it's SSI, but um I guess something came up. They

uh said that my mom makes too much money, so they're threatening to >> cut it off. >> No, there's not there's not a thing where the spouse makes too much money if someone's permanently disabled.

>> Mhm. your mom can make $800,000 a year and your dad still gets his disability SSI. >> So that somebody's confused somewhere on the messaging. >> Okay. So here's the deal. Your dad's income from disability and your mom's $20 an hour adds up together to determine what kind of car they pay cash for.

>> Mhm. >> And they manage their lives. They're like grown-ups and stuff.

>> Mhm. >> And the Denali's gone.

You are way too broke to be supporting other people.

That's why you're stuck.

>> How does that hit you, Jay?

>> It it it it hits me, but I I I've seen it and I've

looked at the numbers. I've known it for a while and it's like, you know, a realization. >> Yeah. And >> I'm just the mean guy that said it all out loud.

>> Well, I it it just, you know, hurts because I want to help. Like >> I want you to be able to help. Huh? But you're not helping. You're hurting.

>> Mhm. >> Because you've quote you guys have woven together a situation that is not good for any of you.

>> And that that that can happen. You can do the wrong thing out of a good heart, right? >> And you got a great heart. You're trying to help your dad. And I appreciate you doing that. That's good. That's a good man. Okay. trying to help your mom and you're living there. So, you feel like you owe him because you do. That's okay.

I get all of that. That's fine.

>> But basically, all the debt you're feeling is are these two cars.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's basically all of it. >> If you didn't have the Denali payment, your life all of the sudden starts working again.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. And um so Yeah. And then we begin

to work extra like a crazy man and clear up the credit card debt, clear up your your little $11,000 card debt. And um

you can be debtree in gosh about a year.

>> Mhm. >> But um cuz you don't have any overhead.

You're not paying rent, right?

>> No. No, I'm not. >> Yeah. I mean, and you're buying some food maybe and stuff for the house and maybe paying a light bill or something, but you don't have much overhead. So, you know, basically we're talking about, you know, $2500 a month, which is

$30,000 a year that you could be

throwing in debt. And that means you're debtree in a year. Uh, of course we're getting rid of the Denali, too, but that's part of the equation. But yeah, once that's gone and you do these things and then mom and dad scratch together a little bit of money and they go buy a five, $6,000 car, and that's fine.

There's nothing wrong with five or $6,000 car. You can get a lot of car for five or six grand. It's not pretty, but it's reliable.

>> Mhm. >> And you're not trying to win any sex appeal jobs anyway. They aren't at the at their age. They're they don't need to pick up a date. They're fine.

>> So, I mean, it's, you know, that's it.

So, and then you start working to get out on your own and um and you can

emotionally support them and coach them and be there for them and drop by some uh drop by dinner occasionally for them and that kind of stuff. And then you start your own life and that's going to be the best thing ever happened to them and to you. >> How will that conversation go with your parents, Jay?

>> Um I think it will go very well. I think

um yes, we we I have a great

>> uh relationship with my parents and my dad is always telling me that >> he wants me to win. >> He wants me to do better than he did.

>> So, >> okay, good. Yeah, >> that's wonderful. That's a very supportive environment. >> And how much is that payment a month?

>> Which one? >> The Denali.

>> The Denali is 508.

>> Yep. >> Wow. Really? Okay. I would I would have

guessed double. Okay. But um just the same. So yeah, I I I don't think it's good for them to have that burden. And I know it's not good for you. The car that that the car was you had a a valid need

and you purchased about four times as much car as you should have or five times as much car as you should have to cover your dad's need. And and then that's when it exposed all this other stuff cuz when you put stress on that budget, all the little stupid things are really exposed. then you can kind of get away with those and forget about them >> until you put stress on it, >> you know. And I can see how all, you know, it's $21,000 Denali, you know, versus a brand new $90,000, right?

So, he's probably thinking in his head as he's doing it, oh, this is a good deal. Okay, it's not crazy. Like, I can and then but here's the problem.

that we make start when we justify them.

You put them in the whole picture of your math and a $500 car payment making

what was it? 3500 a month is what he said. Yeah. >> Yeah. $40,000 a year for a $20,000 car

>> eating Eating away. Yep. With another $11,000 car >> and another $11,000 car and credit card debt. Yeah.

So that's that's what you got to do. So hang on, Jay. I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. that shows you exactly how to do the baby steps that we talk about here.

And we're also going to sign you up for every dollar for our budgeting app and it'll hold your hand as you walk through this process. But beans and rice, rice and beans.

knock that debt off and then I'm going to knock that debt off and then I'm going to knock that debt off and then by this date I'm going to be completely free and then I'm going to save my good 3 to 6 months down payment. And you know, by somewhere in that line, timeline is when you decide you're going to move out on your own. And all of these things come together. And you get out on your own and you're debtree and you got $10,000 in the bank.

You're a different you're a different guy.

>> Um, >> and what's wild is all that can happen in 18 months >> less. >> Being well, being debtree and saving up $10,000. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're right. You're right. Good point. Yeah. So that and and only 18 months and think about

where you were 18 months ago about right here. So nothing change nothing changes until something changes. So hang on.

We're going to send you a copy of the total money makeover and get you moving here my man. Get you moving. So Rachel,

I would say that in 30 years of doing this that a high percentage

and I'll call it maybe even 90%

of the people that are struggling with money issues um have they're either struggling with their spouse or they're struggling with

some other family members with money.

There's a relational component. Nine out of 10. >> There's a relational comp a negative relational component >> to about nine out of 10 people that have money problems.

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Kevin is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hi Kevin, how are you >> doing? Well, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my question is, I'm currently living with my girlfriend and we want to start to look to buy our first house. We're currently renting. I make good money.

She has a lot of money that she made throughout college and her dad is also

going to gift us $35,000 for a down payment. We just kind of feel like right now we're wasting money renting and I know you're totally against doing this before marriage, but it just kind of feels like the the smartest option right now. >> How long you been living together?

>> We've been living together for one year.

>> Why don't you get married?

So, if it was up to me, I would have got married last year. Um, she is going to be competing in the 2028 Olympics. So,

we want to make sure that she's ready to go for that. And she >> How does marriage negatively affect competing in the Olympics?

>> Just the whole wedding and and planning

for all that. She just wants to stay focused on >> So, the wedding affects it, but not marriage.

>> Yeah. You're willing to buy a house,

which is a big deal, but we're not willing to do a wedding competing in training. >> It's too stressful to do a wedding, but it's not too stressful to buy a house.

>> It's inconsistent, illogical.

>> The wedding's going to be a fun big party that that we could uh all enjoy it together. >> You ever bought a house?

>> No. >> It ain't it ain't an easy process.

They're they're going to do a Yeah.

Okay. Um,

so Kevin, you guys are going to do what you're going to do and um, I'm not sure

why you called us because you knew exactly what we were going to tell you.

And um, it is absolutely relationally,

legally, financially stupid to buy a

house with someone you're not married to. her father willing to give her

shacked up boyfriend $35,000

and have no protection on where that money is going to go is idiotic.

That's just dumb. Okay? No way he should

do that because here's what could happen. Okay? Both your names are on the deeds and you decide I'm leaving

because I don't like Olympians and I'm going to go do something else with my life. Now she's got the whole thing, but he can't get his money or her money out of this thing cuz they can't even find you. These are the calls we get on the show.

But that's never going to happen in your case. Yes, it is. Crazy people do crazy stuff all the time. It's how I It's why

we have a show. And uh it's compelling

radio, you know. It's compelling calls.

So please don't do this. So, what would

I tell you to do if I were your friend?

And I am your friend, even though I'm fussing at you. Um, because I don't want you to do this for your own sake. I don't want you to be one of those callers that has a horrible situation and you have to call me back and try to unweave some barrel of fish hooks you got yourself into. And so, what I would do is I would call the preacher and I'd go get married Saturday and I'd have a party after the Olympics.

And then you're legally and relationally and financially on the same page

committed to then if you want to talk about buying a house and then if her dad wants to give you all a wedding gift of $35,000 to help you on the down payment, I'm in. Let's talk about whether you're out of debt. Let's talk about whether you have your emergency fund in place. But conceptually then I would go ahead.

But if you're unwilling to commit to marriage, you should not be buying a home together. These are permanent decisions.

that are not easily undone.

>> So, yeah. Period.

Period.

And it's not it's not the data tells us

that your likelihood of having 1/4th of

the net worth that you have that that your friends that are married have when you're 35.

35 year old men that are married have four times the net worth of 35-year-old men that are shacked up.

That's the data and that's where this is going because if it if there's there's always an excuse, there's always an excuse, but we're going to go ahead and buy a house. Now, I think you're probably going to buy the house. I don't think you're going to listen to the dad thing I said, but um but I wish you would reconsider.

And I wish you'd play this back for her dad where I called him an idiot because this is just dumb. He's he's just he's

trying to do a nice thing for his daughter and he thinks you're a good guy >> and he's trying to be a good dude and he hasn't thought through the unintended consequences of this which is this crap only works when everything goes right.

>> If anything goes wrong, she's screwed in

this scenario. And you don't she don't want to be in that and you don't want to love you want to love her better than that. So, we're going to see the preacher Saturday.

Saturday.

>> Saturday.

>> This Saturday, >> Southern.

That's your uncle Dave. Come on. >> That's your uncle Dave loving you because I don't want to talk to you when you're 30 and you've had this all this struggle in your life because you've got things out of order. >> Yeah.

>> And it screws up everything. and the number of people we call that we get in here in your situation and you knew THIS BEFORE YOU CALLED ME. So you walked into the bear's den and said, "Hey bear, will you eat?" Yes, we will. So we love you so much.

We're always going to tell you the truth and and forcefully to try to get get you to do it.

to win, honey. And man, obviously the girl's a great girl. I mean, my an Olympic champion. Wow. And you get to compete in the Olympics. You got some serious stuff going on. That's neat. So,

this is a great find. You probably ought to like make sure this gets wrapped up before she slips away. >> I was going to say or she goes to Olympic deal, man.

>> Olympic man. Not that you aren't Kevin, but >> Yeah. She said, no, she said she's the one want to put it off, but she's tying it to the wedding and the stress of doing the wedding. >> Yeah. But buying a home is stressful.

Selecting a home is stressful. of your life, the quality of your relationships.

When you have commitment together, when you know it's going to happen anyways, >> and you start creating a life together, there starts to be balance, give and take, you know, all of it. It just there is like there's so much data coming out that it is there is an advantage to it to being married. And you add the finances on top and doing something like purchasing a home together. >> I mean, by the time you get to 50 years old, folks, the numbers are staggering.

You ladies, you have 14 times less net

worth when you're 50 years old if you're shacked up than a married friend of yours. 14 times

less money.

That That's the reality. Men is five times less money at 50 years old.

Married men long-term

live seven or eight years longer than unmarried men. Now, John Deloney and I were discussing that piece of research. He's convinced it's because our wives keep us from doing stupid things that kill us. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Are you going to eat that? >> We are the logical people. >> Are you going to eat that?

>> Are you going to wear that? >> David. >> David. >> David. >> Yeah. Passive aggressive questions coming from a southern bell. There you go. But yeah. >> H. Yeah. I'm convinced this is real.

>> Well, and >> ladies live longer, too. You have a 20% higher possibility of surviving a cancer diagnosis if you're married. and the um and the the stats on >> what is it is it fulfillment or happiness within the marriage before

living together before marriage even.

Yep. So the whole generation shift has been we live together first and actually the data is coming out against that happiness >> versus like playing house together like we are married and we're not because from the psychological perspective of the deep commitment that you have for protection and that's all the happiness all of that I mean yes it is all wrapped in together and again it's not it's not what the culture is doing I know it's not the norm but that's what's coming out. Here's a good idea, too. More people live together now than than are uh than >> that aren't married than live together that aren't married >> in America for the first time ever.

That happened about 10 years ago. The shift is so more people are shacking up. So, I'm pissing a whole bunch of you off right now. But the uh more people are shacking up than are married today.

but here's the thing you got to keep in mind, okay? Divorce rates at an all-time high. And if that's the case, then the splits that aren't divorced are at an all-time high. And we know those things are there. So what you got to figure out is what do most people do in a world where very few people are successful at any area of their lives and figure out what normal is and run

from normal. Normal sucks.

You don't want to be normal.

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Guys, I wish we could get to every single call. Not every single call wishes it, but we wish we could get to every single call and we can't cuz the lines are full right now and they pretty much stay that way. Uh, you can get in if you try, but if you can't, let me give you another idea. Go over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool

that's built and trained only. The only

data in it is proven Ramsey principles.

So 3 four years worth of phone calls from this show dumped into it. The books we've written dumped into it. The um

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And what's fun is you can build out a profile so it will remember you as you come back in your situation and everything like it's it's amazing.

>> Yeah, this is a I'm real proud of our tech team building this out. This is a good use of the AI technology. So you

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Jennifer's in Daytona. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

>> Uh I would like to say it's better than I deserve. >> Cool.

>> Right on brand. How can we help?

>> Um okay. So, um long story short, I'm

trying to figure out if we should refinance um my private student loan. So

me and my husband kind of discovered you and your whole program and baby steps and all that about a year and a half ago >> and um so I'm a I'm a full-time teacher so I teach in high school. Um so it's 40 hours but 40 hours means 50 and and then

um so I started working in a restaurant.

Um and then I started a baking business so like I spend more time with my daughter and make an income. And then from that, my baking stuff, um, I started putting on, um, a wedding show, which is making a lot more money, which is great. Um, but because I made all this income, um, more in my husband works about 50, 60 hours, too. So, um, probably more 60.

Um, because I made this more, um, income, now my government student loans are going up about $700 a month. And I'm starting to have some weird health issues.

there's a new medication they want me to try my insurance that I pay $1,200 a month for is deni is denying the coverage of that medication. So, I might have to start paying I just changed my entire diet to see if that helps versus paying for this medication which is like 500 bucks a month they said. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm changing my entire diet so that way I could save the money.

>> Okay. So, wait a minute.

>> How much student loan debt do you have?

Um, so government student loans, I'm in the and I know you're gonna you're going to roll your eyes on this one. Um, but I'm in that like uh um >> What is the balance on what's the balance on your government student loans? >> So the the government student loans is about 80,000. >> Okay. And the balance on your private student loans? >> About 17,000.

>> Okay. Good news. All right. Good. So $100,000 gets you out of student loan debt. How much other debt do you guys have? Not counting your house. >> We paid everything off. We paid everything off. >> So you're debtree. And what is your household income with all this activity?

You guys are working like horses, man.

>> Oh, you have no idea. I'm so tired.

>> Um, and my kids kind of miss me, but I'm like, it it'll be it'll be fine. We'll make it work. Um, so it's um probably

around 130 give or take.

>> Okay. First rule is we need to find out exactly what our income is and we need to have a detailed plan of where every dollar of that income is going on the every dollar budgeting app. Okay.

>> Okay. And that will make you feel like you got a raise because part of this u

chaos that is your life right now is the

finances are very uh disorganized and

they're kind of floating around as separate numbers in your head instead of sitting in a line.

>> Yeah. It's add like um we don't have a set like paycheck. So because I mean my husband obviously depends on his hours too and and the extra shifts I can pick up at a restaurant and things like that. Understand my salary.

>> You've got all these wonderful things going on that are side hustles. But we still need a detailed game plan of exactly where every dollar comes in as it comes in. Sometimes it's going to be more, sometimes it's going to be less. But we need a detailed game plan and you and him need to be agreed.

Your fatigue level will go down because you don't mind working if you can see the traction. And if you can see the see the progression, like if you look up and you go, we just paid off $20,000 in student loan debt and our private student loans are gone. See, then I'm not as tired. >> And you've been on this for a year and a half, Jennifer. You said how much how much debt have you guys paid off so far?

>> Um almost 100,000. So like in a year in

another year, you'll be debtree.

>> That I'm I'm kind of hoping. So >> No, no, no, no, no. That's a math thing.

It's not a hope thing.

>> Yeah. If you already paid off a hundred in a year, you could pay off 100 in another year. >> 18 a year and a half. >> Okay. >> They make 130, they have $100,000. So,

>> yeah. >> So, it'll be a year and a half. But, Jennifer, to the point that you can still budget with an inconsistent income, you guys just every month kind of guess and just say, "Okay, here's what we think we're going to make." And when the 15th hits and it's a little bit less, you just lower that income, which means you already have planned out which categories you're going to lower or what's going to be cut out of the budget for the remaining part of the month.

>> Fair, fair, fair. >> All you're going to be doing is putting everything on the student loan and how much you make up or down is going to be more on the student loan or less on the student loan that month. That's all it is. That's the only variable in this stay within the margin of your food budget, your out to eat. Yep.

>> Uh I mean, all the extra stuff that just ends up kind of slipping away that can add up to a couple hundred bucks a month, which makes a dent in this debt over, you know what I mean? Over a period of time. >> Okay. Um, but it it is that kind of strict budget, but you guys have been doing it.

I mean, >> so you're paying you've done a great job. >> You're pay if you only have the student loans debt debts left and we're on an 18month schedule to pay them off.

So, whoopde-doopty it went up.

>> Okay. >> Is it on You said something, Jennifer, as you were saying, the 80,000 and you're like, you're going to hate this, but you're on the >> No. Um, >> she's on the income teacher.

>> Yeah. And they said like after 10 years, I'm only like year seven of it, but 10 years. >> I wouldn't do that. I would just get it paid off. >> Let's just get it paid off. Yeah. You because you can't count on them. They lie. >> It's it's the federal government.

>> And uh like 1.7% of the people that do the 10-year one pay repayment plan so far have actually gotten forgiveness.

>> It's nobody gets it >> because it's so screwed up and bureaucratic and messed up that I'm gonna I'm gonna be the one. Yeah, you're No, you're not. Don't do it. Just get it paid off. You You're working like crazy.

People get cuz think about where you'll be two years from today when you don't have a payment in the world except your house. Wow. >> That would be so nice.

>> I'm telling you, all this other the medical stuff you're facing will will be affected by your stress level and your

anxiety level. And uh when there's all this chaos and lack of organization and when the weight of the $100,000 is not there anymore, all of that's going to affect it does affect health. It does with everyone, by the way.

>> So, um >> and well done you guys, though. I mean, >> yeah, you're doing great. You're killing it. >> You're doing real. >> And in our millionaire study, teachers are on the list of the five careers.

>> Yeah. >> Of baby steps millionaires, Jennifer.

So, you guys are you're in great professions. You have got a great head on your shoulder. Just just dial in the budget and I promise you'll be finding some more cash when you do that.

>> Yeah. Wow. That's powerful. And she's not lacking in energy.

>> No, >> she can work. >> She's got a lot of energy, Jennifer.

>> Highly caffeinated. Yeah. Well done.

>> Keep at it, Jennifer. When you spirit, too. I like it. I like it. I like her.

She's neat. So, way to go, kiddo. Keep push on through and get this stuff out of your life. But the best way to do it, the most efficient use of money is a detailed plan.

And one of the things, folks, if you think about it this way, if you worked for a company called You Incorporated, and your job at You Incorporated was to manage money for You Incorporated, and you managed money for You Incorporated, the way you manage money for you now, would you fire you?

And if the answer is yes, then probably you ought to change something. And don't be sitting around shocked that you're broke if you're doing a bad job handling the money. And so, you know, like I've got 14 profit centers here at Ramsey. I just met with one of them a while ago for an hour and a half going over their detailed budget.

And the vice president of that area is showing me with Smart Veester. We were looking at Smart Vtor stuff and he's showing me exactly what we've got coming in, exactly what we got going out.

Hello. And get to keep that job is how he does it. Hello. So, he's really good at it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Emily is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi Emily. How are you?

>> Hey Dave. Hey Rachel. I'm doing good.

How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

Um, my question for you is, um, I've

been with my boyfriend for four years now, and we're at a fork in the road where we had a conversation yesterday, and he gave me a list of things I need to work on to earn an engagement. Should

I leave?

>> What? >> I know the answer.

>> Wait, what? >> How old are you?

>> I'm 31. He's 38. We've both been married. >> Yeah. Can I ask not to be like overly vulnerable, Emily? Like what's on the list?

>> Two things. I struggle with change and

adversity.

>> You struggle with change and you

struggle with adversity.

>> with dealing with adversity.

>> And you have to fix both of those to earn his hand.

>> It's not something he wants to come home to every day for the rest of his life.

What? >> Wow.

That >> do you feel like you have that attitude while y'all are dating? Like, has there been conversations and he's like, "You see the glass half empty. I need someone with the glass half full." Like, what have the conversations been before this list was created?

>> I thought it was a c I asked a question

back, "Has it have you always felt this way?" He said, "No, it's just been this last year." And I asked him,"Well,

we've gone through a lot of challenges and adversity this last year. It's probably been the most challenging year we've had." Um, >> so there are >> What kind of adversity did you face that you weren't good at? According to him,

>> I have changed my career and moved to to

I've moved out of state three times in the last year to stay in this relationship and I'm being asked to do it again and I don't want to do it without a commitment. And >> and so the adversity is you've had all of these moves and uh you're sick of it

and that means you're according to him you're not good at adversity.

>> Yeah. My response is if things can stabilize for more than one year then I will be able to be content again. >> Why does he why does he move every year?

>> Amb we're ambitious people. Um promotions um we we decided to open a

franchise which is why we moved and it didn't work out.

So there's been some financial hardship along the way that has caused more stress. Um,

so that's that's essentially what's been the most recent adversity we've gone through and we're about to go through it again. So I'm a little nervous of I feel

like I have to watch myself if I decide to move forward.

Sharon and I moved out of a home that we had had for 15 years that we built

custommade beautiful home. And in 21

when people were paying more for properties than they should have, someone paid us more for that than they should have. And so we sold it and we were homeless and we went and bought a house and we moved. Um those were

decisions we made together

and um there was always stress associated with a move. Uh but I don't

think either one of us would call that adversity. That was we decided to change

our location together and together we

changed our location and whatever drama

there was was outside of our house. That was she and I facing that drama. Not like I'm weak and I can't handle the

change and you're strong and you can. We didn't have that discussion because we both decided and did it together. So I I'm a little bit confused coming from that point of view as to how moving is

actually adversity. >> Well, she's f she said she followed him around. She had to move three different times to stay in the relationship. So he's asking her to move with him and she's like, I don't want to move again.

>> I got that part, but I don't even think this qu I think adversity.

>> I think that would be I think that okay, it could be the wrong word, but I think it's stressful. I think her following him and then having to quote unquote put on a brave face and you can't even authentically be yourself when you are stressed. >> Adversity is you have a >> having to move. >> You have a cancer diagnosis.

>> Adversity is someone in your family has a sickness or an illness. Adversity is

you got fired from a job that was not

your decision. >> Well, their franchise fa failed.

>> That that's Yeah, a failed business is an adversity. But moving cities to take a better job and choosing to do that with your boyfriend is not adversity.

It's uh it is change. It's dramatic change. So, >> and you could hate that though. >> Yeah. And I'm good with you hating it.

I'm just curious. It's just it's a curious word choice for me >> that on his part. >> Yeah. Um or on yours to adopt it. Either

one. But the um >> Interesting.

Interesting. >> Yeah. So, I think I think this doesn't come down to uh your deficit and he's got it all together. I think it comes down to you're sick of following this guy around. >> Yep.

>> I don't get anything out of it.

>> And he knows it. And he knows it. He knows you're sick of it. And he wants you to not be sick of it. And you're sick of it.

>> Yeah. I feel like it's a too bad so sad well kind of response. And >> yeah, like >> and uh I'm just it's just a fork in the road in my life. So, I'm just I listen to you guys every day and I >> And that's heartbreaking, Emily. You've been with them for four years, right?

>> You know, I think the truth is just listening to you, you're I mean, you're not a an immature little girl. You're a

grown woman that's got strong intellect and you're articulate. And so, I think

when he said this, you've already made up your mind. You just wanted to hear us say it, too. That it's weird.

>> So, I'll say it. It's weird. >> That's a weird request.

If you had a daughter and her 18-year-old boyfriend said, "You have to do these three things to get married to me." You would tell your daughter, "Run." >> I'd be like, "Here's here's my list for you." Yeah, >> Chad. >> You need to change these things. >> Head out the door, Bubba.

>> Chad. >> Yeah. >> Let's change your commitment issues, Chad. >> Yeah, >> man. >> I've been following your butt around and all you got for in return for that's criticism. So, yeah, I think you already made your decision before you called us, >> but it's just you hadn't hadn't said it out loud, and now you did.

>> Yeah, >> I'm sorry. >> It hurts. >> I appreciate it. You know, it's just uh talking to like-minded people, getting their opinion on it. >> Yeah. Well, and here's the truth, too, Emily. You want a partner, you want a spouse in your life, if you choose to get married to him, that you can come home and be who you need to be at home.

And again, you don't I mean, and I get that like some, you know, people complain in marriage like so and so complains all the time, but there's a level of authenticity of like I need to just to like unload right now like I'm so stressed and I need you to partner with me in that and hear that in me and and empathize and ask questions, be curious, like do this life with me. Not that I have to image manage in front of

my spouse. Do you know what I mean? Like that's that's going to be an exhausting life. >> Yeah. I have to do this to earn.

>> Yes. >> This is a conditional love versus unconditional love. >> Yeah. and >> and we're getting your side of the story and I'll say more and more now we're uh we get DMs from the person on the other side of the story. You know what I mean?

And you and you hear so I >> Let me tell you, you can DM if you want to DM, but you did leave your girlfriend of four years who followed you in three different cities feeling this way. Even if even if you didn't say it that way, you left her feeling like you said it that way. So, you still screwed up.

>> Emily, I'm sorry. >> Yeah, sorry. That's awful. People do

like change, by the way.

When it's changed for the better, they love it. You ever bought a new car?

It's exciting and fun. It's change.

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Start the Every Dollar process for free by downloading the app in the App Store or Google Play. Thomas is in Phoenix.

Hi, Thomas. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm doing well. >> Good. How can we help?

So, I have just finished baby step two

and I'm 52 years old.

And so, I'm doing steps three and four

right now. And I just wanted some guidance on whether I should do focus more on investing or paying down my mortgage once I get three accomplished.

>> Okay. >> And I got numbers. >> All right. Cool. We teach to do baby steps one through three, which is $1,000 saved, then out of debt, everything but the house, and then three is a fully funded emergency fund with great focused

intensity. One of those things at a time until it's accomplished. So, you should not be doing anything on four until three is done. And you probably can do that in just a month or two. So, or or maybe in 10 minutes, I don't know. But call baby step three completed. Then we

change from scorched earth intensity

like running for your life intensity to intentional and we relax just a little bit. Okay?

And this is when you could upgrade a car or do some other you know go on a trip or something like that. But until then till you get past baby step three you don't need to be eating out. You don't need to be buying cars. You don't be doing nothing. Okay. So, >> okay, >> once you're there, then baby steps four, five, and six we do simultaneously,

which is kind of what you're trying to do right now on three and four. And that's 15% of your household income

going into retirement.

And if you have kids, college to deal with, that's baby step five. And then any >> never married, no kids. >> Okay. Then any other money beyond 15% of your income being saved would go on the house mortgage. And so we're running baby steps four and six simultaneously,

but it's very simple. You put 15% away and every other dollar you can find that you don't need to use to have a good life, you can throw at the debt. And what typically happens is people are paying off their homes using that system in uh between seven and 10 years.

>> So let's let's look at let's look at your numbers. What's your household income?

So, um, I'm a Fed and I make 55471

a year and I have a VA compensation

which is 2171 a year.

>> Okay. So, you have $76,000 income. Thank you for your service. And um, and and

you owe what on your home?

>> Uh, 191,000. >> And and you said you're 55 years old.

52. >> Oh, 52 years old. That's right. Okay.

All right. So, cool. So, what we would prescribe is you get your emergency fund finished and then you're putting 15% of your income away. It's about $10,000 a year, about 800 bucks a month. And um if

you're working for the Fed, you could you can you could you could put it um in

the Thrift Savings Plan, the TSP, or and

or you could use uh just a Roth IRA and good mutual funds, and that'll take care of a bunch of it. You put 8,000 in that, and that's what I would do.

Yeah, TSP has Roth now. So, >> yeah, but they also don't have as good options as the open market does for for mutual funds. The best option in the TSP by far is the C plan.

>> It's the only thing that even mimics the market and it's about like an S&P 500.

So, it's a good investment. It's not a bad investment. And so, if you if you need to do some in the TSP, what I would do is put $8,000 into a Roth getting with a Smart Investor Pro and put $2,000 into the TSP. And then beyond that, if I can find any money in the budget, I'm gonna start throwing it at the house.

>> Do you have any money right now, Thomas saved >> uh in in retirement? >> I guess I I've got Oh, for retirement.

Um I got 26 in the TSP. 26,000.

>> 26,000. Okay. >> Cuz I was just I was just running. >> The caveat is the caveat is >> there's a there's an investment um packet um that is being handled and it

was my dad's it and he made my stepmom the beneficiary. She doesn't touch it.

She doesn't need it. And she's like, "This is yours when I die."

>> I have no idea how much it is.

>> You don't know how much it is?

>> Yeah. So, I would >> I don't feel comfortable asking. >> I would plan like that doesn't exist.

>> Yeah. So, if you ran If you did the numbers, I just typed in the calculator real quick, Thomas, with your 26,000 that you have and you put 800 bucks away between now and 67, you'll have $565,000.

>> And you've got your military retirement of 21,000. >> Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. I came up with the same numbers when I used your calculator, which doesn't include >> doesn't include the Fed contribution.

So, >> so good. And and whatever is going to happen. >> Oh, wait. Fed's contributing to your TSP.

>> 5%. >> Ma, is that a match?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, you do the you put 5% in the match then for sure. And the other 10% you can put in a Roth IRA. So match in the C plan TSP Roth and then Roth and a

good growth stock mutual funds and with your Smartves investor pro that you can contact at ramseyolutions.com and yeah you're going to have half million to a million dollars you know by the time you need some money >> and um you're doing really good. I'm glad Thomas glad and you got $21,000 a year coming in as long as you're alive military retirement which is excellent.

So, um, very cool. A and, uh, and the house will get paid for using this system and, and but no, I would not put more or less in retirement. I would work that plan, that

exact plan >> and then bump it up once the house is paid off. Throw in more at investments and you can have more there at retirement. So, well done, Thomas. Which is so encouraging to do all of this in your early 50s. Like, he's jumping on the plan now, you know, >> on baby step three, starting retirement.

I mean, it can be done.

>> Yeah, >> it's great. >> Ever since we started doing this, we've had people in their 50s and 60s and 70s ask, you know, is it too late?

Well, not if you're breathing. You still got a shot, you know? So, you know, just keep sucking wind and working on it, right? It's not too late. That's the idea. So, um you you can do a lot of

stuff in a few years, but it's is is it easier if you start earlier? Yeah. for you 21 year olds.

>> 100 bucks a month and you're a millionaire in no time, man. I mean, just shut up. Hello. That's way different than saving 800 bucks a month to end up with a half million. >> That's right. >> You know, so yeah, get get that compound interest, the eighth wonder of the world according to Einstein, working in your favor, right? And it's it is if you ever run compound interest numbers, it blow your freaking mind how powerful that is.

>> All right, Ted is with us in Nashville.

Hi, Ted. How are you?

>> Howdy. I'm well. How you guys doing?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Wonderful. Um, my wife's 31. I'm 36.

We're on 45 and six. Um, we owe about

328,000 on a house that's worth about 550,000. We have about 300,000 saved

currently for retirement. >> Way to go. >> I'm about I'm about six years away from being eligible from uh collecting my pension and retiring from the military.

I'm in the blended retirement system.

>> Ah, >> and I was doing I was reading some of the literature recently and I hadn't realized that I have an option to take a reduced pension at either uh 25%

reduction or 50% reduction in exchange for the lump sum. >> Do it. >> And I got on Ask Ramsey last night.

Yeah. And ask the Ask Ramsey AI was very helpful. I ran a couple of models and it all looks like a good idea. Yep.

>> Um I mostly wanted help deciding if I'm missing something, figuring out what exactly I want to do with the lump sum.

Nope. You roll you roll the lump sum into an IRA. So there's no taxes on it that way and you leave it alone and you let the lump sum grow because the lumpsum will grow and feed you more than the pension would have fed you because the mutual funds are growing at a greater rate than the pension is.

>> Yeah. It's not even close. >> Yeah. And when you die, the pension dies with you and lump sums don't die with you. So you end up with a half million or a million dollars as a result of this over in in your inheritance versus when you die your pension just goes poof.

>> Yeah. The model that I ran I'd be giving up $480,000 of um future pension payments and if I

invested that all would grow to about 3.2 over the same time period. So >> you did it correctly. That's why we tell you to do it. That's exactly it. No, you didn't miss a thing. That that's how smart it is. It's it's not just a little bit smart. It's like waste mark.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

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>> Ethan is in Atlanta. Hi, Ethan. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Hey, so I was going over my mom's finances with her. She's 55 years old,

has only $19,000 in retirement, and a

ton of consumer credit debt and a heliloc loan. And um I built her a

spreadsheet just to get everything out um in front of her so that she could see what her finances look like. And I was trying to teach her the debt snowball method. She's got about $200

that she could start throwing at consumer credit debt, but I was wondering if there's a quicker way that we could get her um I say we, it's my little brother and I, we're trying to get her positioned better financially

before she kind of hits that retirement age. >> That's very neat. And she's accepting your coaching. That's interesting.

>> Yeah. Um hesitantly, but yes.

I heard it. >> Nice, Ethan. >> I'm I'm 27. My little brother's I'm 27.

My little brother's 24. And we're just trying to >> What do you do for your mom and take care of her? I'm a mechanical engineer.

I work on elevators. >> Ah, okay. All right. So, you're a detail guy?

>> Yes, I love spreadsheets. >> Yeah, you love spreadsheets. Yeah, I can tell. And um you're a good son. You're

really helping her. That's awesome. And I appreciate that you're guiding her on that. What is her income?

>> So, she makes $20 an hour. So, after

taxes, her take-home is roughly um she

nets $2,500, but her monthly gross is

$3,400. So, about $41,000.

>> What does she do for a living?

>> She's a custodian at um >> And where's your dad? >> Alden County.

>> Um my dad's kind of out of the picture.

He's off doing his own thing. Just they're >> divorced. Really contribute. They are separated. Yes, they're divorced.

>> Are they separated or are they divorced?

>> They're divorced. >> Okay. All right. Uh because that'll matter in her future. How long have they been split up?

>> Um I think they're coming up on like 11

years being divorced.

>> Okay, good. All right.

>> So, how much how much credit card debt is there?

So, minus the HELOC loan about $16,000.

>> Okay. And is she using credit cards to

get by monthly? That 3,400 isn't covering her expenses or is it just kind of flippant spending that's caused it?

>> Um, so her it's kind of a messy

situation. She right now is living off of just her paycheck. I made sure that she like when I talked to her, she's just using her debit card to pay off all of her debts. >> Yeah. So, she's not using her credit cards at all. She's >> I was in um Palm Beach a while back

um uh where Marago is among others. And

about three doors down from Mara Lago is a property that is probably a couple

hundred million dollars in value. And the lady that lives there was Mary Kay of Mary Kay Cosmetics.

She built that house. You you've heard of her, I'm sure.

>> Yeah. Okay. She um got divorced at 55

years old

and started from nothing and decided I don't want to be broke anymore. So she started her whole life, her encore, her whole career, everything started at your mom's age.

And so >> that is really encouraging. >> I I want that for your mom.

I don't know if I want her to be in a $200 million house next to Marago, but anyway, the But I want a I want a second chapter. >> Yeah. >> Beyond the 11 year ago divorce, beyond being a custodian because she didn't

sign up for the trip she's on. And I

want her to sign up for a new trip.

So, I'm going to ask her as her 65year-old older brother what she's going to do in her encore career. What's the next chapter of your life look like, honey? What do you want to be when you grow up? Because now at 55, you get a

second chance. You've got 40 years, 30

years of income potential.

And I don't want you, there's nothing shameful about being a custodian making $20, but part of her problem is she's a

custodian making $20. and the life that she's settled in on, she'll still be doing that 25 years from now if she doesn't have some kind of a wakeup call.

You follow me?

>> Yes. >> And that's a bigger concern than a little bit of credit card debt.

>> I agree. >> So, I want to uh I'm going to put a bunch of inspirational literature around her. Um make sure she has friends that are inspiring her.

Charlie Tremendous Jones said, "Five years from today, you'll be the same person you are today, except for the books you read and the people you meet." So, I want her to meet some new people because you become who you hang around with. I want her to read some new books.

I want her to get her nose back in her Bible and her tail end back in church.

And I want her to get fired up and wired up about who she's going to be in this next chapter. And I want her making $45 an hour 48 months from today.

this is the kind of way I want to think about this for her. I want her to have a

better life than she's got lined out right now. Then obviously the side the

byproduct of that is it solves your problem that you're facing because part of what you're facing is you're taking very little income and trying to squeeze a lot out of it.

That's what your spreadsheet told you, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. So part of what you got is a huge income problem. But the reason you have an income problem is you've got a perception problem and the dreams died

>> on the first go round and we need a new set of dreams.

>> So that's Yeah. >> Yeah. I want Mary Kay story for her.

>> I want that too. I was wondering what your thoughts on this were. Um if she

only has about $19,000 in retirement due

to the way the company that she's worked for has structured it. It's really messed up. Uh what if she were to take

that $19,000 out of the 401k and

obviously has to pay taxes on it and just knocks out all of her consumer debt and then she's left with only the $34,000 >> um on the helock >> having to pay off that heliloc and then that would make >> her cash flow about $1300 a month.

>> Yeah. If we don't do the other thing I was talking about, it won't matter,

>> right? >> Because she's going to struggle to make ends meet. >> Yeah. >> At 20 bucks an hour, >> that's below the poverty level.

>> She's going to struggle.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> And and it's going to get harder and harder and harder as she ages because it's, you know, it's hard to be a custodian when you're 70.

>> So, um yeah, you know, your feet hurt.

Hello. Your back hurts. pillow. >> Yeah. And I wonder, you know, even Ken's book, we could give her uh give her a copy of that cuz there's a great finding the work you're wired to do. >> Yeah. Cuz there's a great assessment in the back just to start jogging her memory of what she enjoys, right? You find what you're good at >> her natural bent that may has been squashed for years. I mean, who knows, right? But just to get some ideas. The divorce definitely did a number on

its encourage her with this cuz when I showed her the spreadsheet, >> it deflated every kind of she had cuz she wasn't snowballing. She was paying extra. >> Yeah. Yeah.

So, I I No, I would not cash out the retirement because I don't want you to have to I don't want her have to pay the 10% penalty plus her taxes on the retirement. I would stop adding anything to retirement and I would lean in and pick up extra jobs and start taking classes and do whatever we want to do for this next chapter. >> Mhm. >> Um and then clear, you know, begin clearing the debt that way.

waved a wand and she had no debt, including her heliloc and she's at $20 an hour at 55 years old and she has no hope of that changing much except for a little bit of a cost of living raise every so often and it goes from $20 to $2045 or whatever, right? That's not we're not prescribing a prosperous future with no

debt. And so there, you know, your

spreadsheet's not going to get fixed until you put more on the top of it. Um, but but yeah, keep working on it and keep encouraging her. But if I were in her shoes, I would spend 80 to 90% of my

energy dreaming again and setting up my next career and 10% of my energy trying to manage the mess that I'm sitting in.

And I'm going to work my way out of this manure and and go on to the next thing.

The best revenge is success.

So hang on, we'll send you a copy of Ken's book.

Heat. Heat.

Tess is in Detroit. Hi, Tess. How are you? >> Hi, I'm well. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Well, my husband and I have been mulling around the idea of buying a new car and

uh we finally decided on one we might like and separate separately we looked it up. We're like, "Hey, this is pretty good what it'll fit us." And then I said, "Well, let's go buy it because we have cash. if we could just buy it. And he said, "Oh, you know, they have 0%

financing. Why wouldn't we do that?" And I thought, you know, I listen to the show all the time, but I don't really know. I would say you don't do it because you don't want any debt at all.

>> But correct. Would do that. Why wouldn't you, you know, use their money?

>> Yeah. Well, hypothetically, that would be the co would cause you to ha have more money or build some wealth because you did that. That would be the hypothetical. In other words, I'm paying no interest and you know, my investments are paying me.

>> Um, but the the truth is what ends up happening >> is it's not going to be a problem for you. You got you got plenty of money. I can tell. >> Um, but >> yeah, it would not be a problem.

Yeah, but but you would lose money by No, you don't. You don't.

Two reasons. Number one, what what car is it? What's the car?

>> Well, I don't know if you like if we did. It was a car. It's a Hyundai Santa

Fe that we rented when we were in California. So, we wouldn't have ever looked at that car, but it was a rental and we're like, "Wow, >> this was really nice." >> It was a rental.

>> They rented one and liked it and now they want to buy it. >> Oh, I see. I see.

>> It was a rental that made us decide this. >> I understand. Understand. Yeah, that's happened to me. Okay. Um, and I also

decided on some cars I would never buy after I rented them. But, um, but the, uh, uh, the Jeep Wagon Ear and the, uh,

anyway, the, um, >> yeah, bad car. Um the uh uh

I haven't looked at Hyundai's program, but every program I have ever looked at, the only way they give you 0% is if you

pay MSRP,

>> you pay full price. You pay >> stickers. >> So 0% is not really 0%. So I bought a a

new Raptor Bronco the other day. Okay.

>> Okay. is cute car. And uh I I bought

that car. >> That's the adjective you use for your car. I have a cute car. >> It's It is It's cute. It's a cute I mean, compared to my bigger truck, it's a cute little car. But the um it's um and it's brand new. And um I called the dealer that I work with on Ford stuff when I'm buying it. Great people. And I just buy it for a few dollars over invoice.

>> But do they do that for everybody? Yeah, they do that for everybody because they get they get manufacturer rebates and kickbacks and 14 different things and they make plenty of money on the car at invoice. So $500 over invoice, $1,000 over invoice, that kind of thing is fairly typical on a car like you're talking about, like I'm talking about.

Okay? And that's a lot less than MSRP, a

lot less than is on the sticker. So 0% is not 0%. That's problem number one.

Problem number two is I have met we did detailed research with 10,000 millionaires and the number of millionaires that we interviewed that told us that they became millionaires because they use 0% financing and you kept their money working for them was precisely zero. None of them do.

Millionaires just don't do this.

Okay. >> Right. I I agree. I own this. This is my >> I don't want a stinking car payment.

>> Rebuttal for him.

>> Even if it's a 0%. I don't want a stinking car payment. And it's that simple. So yeah, so yeah, you win the argument and uh it's an interesting discussion, but that's the two reasons.

One is you're paying too much for the car and so it's not really 0% because you really ended up, you know, in a sense borrowing the money at at an interest rate. So uh and then the other thing is that will real people that have real money don't do this crap. Um and

you've got real money and that's why you stopped and said, "I don't think so, honey." Yeah. And the problem is when you don't have real money and you still go into this, if you miss a payment or something goes off, sometimes they backtrack all the interest and it's some absolute >> disaster. You can really get the the terms that you have to abide by to continue to get 0% and to get 0% in the first place are pretty horrendous.

>> So, um, they basically very few people

by the time they get through all that at the dealership end up with 0%.

And so it's a bit of a bait and switch to get you in the door and get you go, oh, we'll get you in the finance office and then we'll get you a real loan, you know, and that happens a lot because you

got to have all kinds. Well, that's it. That's don't do it. Michelle's in Sacramento. Hi, Michelle.

>> Hi, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Oh, good. Okay. I just had a quick question about um shared bank account.

So my husband and I have been married for we're going on eight years and we

have a shared bank account and then we have a separate one through a failed business attempt but it was a personal account. Um and he wants to keep that

open and have my paycheck go directly to that. Um because Okay. And so it's it's

kind of now I got to think about it. Um he's one um we just barely got to baby

step three and we are completely out of debt and we have um our first month's

um expenses for emergency funds in there saved up and we're moving trying to get that moved up but I just don't feel comfortable keeping that other bank account open. It feels like you know just >> okay I'm I'm confused. We are working.

We are working on the baby steps which indicates that both of you have some >> exposure to Ramsay.

>> And yet he now has decided he has a

better plan and that's that we don't do anything. We separate everything and act like we're roommates.

>> Yeah, kind of. But he's wanting like he still is giving me access to the family and the groceries and the all of that.

Well, that's nice of him. He wants to

and it's not like he's >> Why does he want to do it, Michelle? What's I don't understand his why. Keep it open and put your income in that. For what though? Like to >> Oh, so there's So he has an ex-wife and he's

nervous if something happens there. He wants to make sure that we have separate that doesn't affect the family account.

>> Okay. How can his ex-wife get into the family account? She can't.

>> I I'm not sure.

>> No, she can't. I I >> even E even in California, they don't allow that.

>> That's fair. Yeah. So, it's just it's just kind of a it's I I don't know if it's him trying to be like he trying to think that it's like a safety thing or a backup safety thing or whatnot, but >> No, >> I've he and I have sat down and had this had a conversation about it. I said, I I'm not comfortable with it.

>> Yeah. Like, I'm not doing it.

>> Yeah. We've already been through eight years. There's nothing to be insecure about. Well, you know, I know yours >> and we've already gotten out of everything. So, >> if you're worried about me, we got a different issue and it's not a separate account. If you're worried about her, >> you have a different issue and it's your lack of knowledge of how the legal system works.

>> She's gone. She's called the ex for a reason. >> She's a used to be. >> I mean, they've settled everything.

You guys have been >> She's a starter wife. >> You guys have been married for eight years. So, >> so interesting. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And there's and there's only lasted like maybe two or three. But it but and that's the thing is like we're on the same page with everything else, but it's just for some reason it's and he wants it to go to like um you know this is where we pull to go for >> Well, I mean when you when you say no, I'm not going to do that and I'm not okay with that.

>> I don't know. I don't I don't think it's anything. I don't know. To me, it makes

sense to keep it everything in the spot.

>> Okay. Is he wanting to have a separate account in general to put all of like you guys together like and he's just saying, "Hey, I want to save your income over here so when we go on trips or need to buy a car, we pull out of that account." Is that what you were saying?

>> Yeah, that's Yeah, that's >> okay. So, I would have a Okay. So, so what I would do, Michelle, is I would go get our smart bundle at Fairwinds Credit Union. This is what Winston and I did.

You have a checking account in there and then you can have up to 10 high yield savings accounts. So we have an emergency fund in one and then you can open up another one and yeah and if you guys look at the budget and say hey we're going to do the budget and we're going to save >> some amount of money >> this amount of money and maybe it comes out to your paycheck and that's what you all agree. Let's put my paycheck in this high yield savings and we're that's going to be our big bucket of savings throughout the next couple of years and we need to pull from it >> for Yes.

We have a house. >> I know, but you you you uh aren't putting you already were putting 15% of your income away before that and you were already you out of a house before that. >> Yeah, but I'm saying the way >> she's a baby step three.

>> So, you should not be saving money in addition to 14 15% of your income.

>> That's fair. >> Except for miscellaneous living.

>> But I am saying a different account that you guys put the amount of money maybe that goes to your that's your paycheck to be saving in general later on in the baby steps. That's fine to have another account to do that. But both your names are on it and the amount that's going into it happens to be some amount. But it doesn't need to be we need to hide your check over here in a failed business checking account.

>> Yuck. >> I'm trying to trying to paint another picture for you, Michelle.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

Stephen is in Tulsa. Hi Stephen, how are you?

>> Hey guys, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

Um, so my brothers and I, we're working on a plan. We're trying to figure out the best and most efficient way to buy uh my parents out of our family business. Um, so they can retire.

>> Cool. Okay. So, what is the business net

profit?

>> Um, net a year is right around a million. Um, gross is uh last year gross

was about 8 million.

>> Okay. And what are they wanting to be paid?

Um, they haven't settled on a number.

The company was evaluated at around 14 million. Um, >> no, it's not. >> They I would >> not even close.

>> A million dollar profit company is not worth 14 million on any planet.

>> So, with 600 acres of land, >> well, the you might have a piece of real estate that's worth some money, but the company itself is generating a million dollars, right? >> And if you're if you you would be racing to pay $14 million for that. So, what is the land worth? >> Sure.

>> Yeah. The land itself is the bulk of that. Um, I'd say that's at least 9 million. 910 million.

>> Okay, that'd be about right if it's 10 million.

>> So, a four a company is netting a million is probably worth about four.

Okay. >> And the and and the land is worth nine.

So, you have two transactions is my point. >> You have a real estate transaction.

>> Okay. I see. >> You have a real estate transaction and the purchase of the actual business because you can pick the business. What kind of business is this? Farming.

>> Yeah, it's farming. It's a specialty crop. >> Okay. Farming. >> Oh, I was going to say you can pick it up and go do it somewhere else. That's not possible. Okay. Um but but yeah.

>> Do your parents own the land outright, Stephen?

>> Um no, that's that's another thing. They uh some several of the acreage they they do own outright, but but uh a majority of it has a loan on it.

>> How much debt is against the $10 million in real estate?

Um it's right around 2 million. So they

have a good amount of equity but

>> and um >> good amount of debt for for a small company. >> Yeah.

And uh yeah yeah yeah.

Okay. All right. Um I'm trying to think

how to structure this. All right. Let's go back to the the easiest one. Okay.

The easiest one is the business itself, not counting the land.

Okay. If you were to give them $4

million for the property or not for the property 10 but value of the property at 10 million and we're going to give them $4 million, then the way I would do that is I would take I would tell you and your brothers to take a bare minimum wage for the work that you

do, whatever your what is your position with the company?

>> Um, operations manager. That's >> And what do you get paid for being operations manager?

Um, we each get paid around 100,000.

>> Okay. So, if you and you can live on that.

>> Yes. So, I would tell you to continue to take a h 100,000 each as your um

salaries, which nets the company $1 million. Am I correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And I would give them the $1 million for four years.

you get a 100% of profits or 90% of profits for four years until we get to

$4 million.

If we get if we have a better year and we have a great crop, we might get there in three years. We might get there in three and a half, but you're going to get out of there. You get a percentage of profits, the lion share, the biggest portion of the profits, 90% or so, until you get to $4 million, mom and dad.

That's how you buy them out of the out of the business. Then we've got a $10 million real estate transaction to do.

That's a separate transaction. That's much more complicated, >> right?

>> Because you take payments on $10 million out of your million-doll profits and you don't have any profit anymore.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, this business is not viable.

It's not a profitable business. If someone came in and borrowed to buy the land and the business and borrowed $14 million, they would lose money,

>> right? And so, um, the business cannot

afford to pay market value for the land and make a profit, right? >> So, what are they going to do? They're going to will it to you? Are they going to take $4 million as their retirement and then give you boys the the the dirt when they die and you guys work to pay that $2 million off? That's what I would recommend. But, I don't know if your parents are that generous or can see their way to do that.

I I believe that that uh that's that's the play honestly. Um they don't have, you know, they've been running this business for a while, so they don't have any hardly any retirement. The business is their retirement. So I would see that as a pretty good uh >> if they got $4 million in a mutual fund four years from now and they live off of that and they give you guys the land.

>> Oh yeah. >> At as a part of their estate planning, they could do it pre uh pre-death

unified estate tax gifts and that kind of things. There's all kinds of ways you can do it. And we can even do an LLC and do partial interest and devalue that those interests. There's all kinds of stuff an estate planner can teach you to do to get that land transferred to y'all. And then you guys after you get your parents paid off, go get that mortgage paid off quick >> and you're sitting there with all this debt free. And this is a stinking cash cow now. You're killing it.

>> It's wonderful. >> Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Uh

thank you for your help. >> Yeah, that that's what I would do. But if they want to be paid 14 million, I don't think you can do it. I think you'll go broke.

>> He can't. But could they go out and get >> They couldn't get No one would give them >> would do that. Yeah. Is what you were saying.

>> What you'd have to do is sell the land >> and sell the business, but you can't sell the business separate from the land because it is a specialty crop on that land.

could operate in any building.

>> We happen to own the building but that's a separate thing than Ramsay. >> Sure. >> So um you could pick this up and put it in another office building somewhere.

Right. And uh then so the real estate doesn't destroy the business or vice versa. Um but where it's tied together

with a specialty crop in particular.

>> Sorry. >> I don't know. Maybe they're growing what? Avocados or something. California, right? So I don't know. I didn't ask him what the crop was, but and you know, it's it's probably some kind of something that has been done there for almost generational >> on that piece of dirt. So those trees are that those plants are >> in a sense >> are they're mature to produce the crop that they're producing and you couldn't just go do that some somewhere else probably. I'm not an agricultural expert but that's common sense I guess. Wow.

Interesting. Very interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. So one of the things we've worked with a lot in our entree leadership materials is succession planning and uh

we've done a bunch of it here at Ramsey.

Um I mean you're looking at part of it right now. Rachel is the Ram one of the Ramsey personalities. The the ability to

carry on a brand after I'm not here for

whatever reason. And um so you've got to have a plan to carry on the brand. You got to have a plan to carry on the leadership. You got to have a plan to carry on the ownership. And um Rachel and our brother Daniel and I just did a uh panel at the Entre Leadership Summit in uh Disney two weeks ago for 3,000 business owners. And we're talking about family business.

>> Yeah. And I think what's hard in family business, depending on how it's structured, is that for a lot of people, they grow a business and that's their retirement. And so when you hand it off,

purchasing the business is usually the

name of the game in family business. And so making sure you sit down and you do it well with an attorney, right? You said the estate attorney, but lots of communication on the front end, too, that everyone understands what's happening. Really, really important.

>> All the spouses and everyone understands

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Thanks for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. If you're buying or selling a home, it's a big deal. You need to get someone in your corner that really knows their stuff. Not somebody got a license 3 weeks ago and you knew them in high school. No, that's not what we're doing. We're getting a pro that sells a 100 houses a year, something like that. Get somebody that's high octane, high protein. Ramsey Trusted only has high octane, high protein real

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Jake's in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Jake. How are you? >> Fantastic. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, about a couple years ago, I decided to purchase a home with my mother and with the agreement that she'd only be there for like two to three years and then it would essentially transfer into my name. Um, so recently

we've been having more arguments because she likes to run the household her way.

I like to do it my way. and she pulled

from her 401k to pay for the down payment for that house. So, she only has about 8,000 in retirement. So, my question is I'm trying to figure out how we can get out of this with both of us

not being sced.

>> Well, I mean, how much did she put into the house?

>> Um, I believe a down payment was about 10,000. >> Okay. And so, what do you owe on the house now?

Um 239 the last time that I checked.

>> Mhm. And what's it worth today?

>> Um the last thing I saw it was 259 to

260. >> Okay. So if you sold the house and she got her $10,000 back or whatever she put

down back and then you split any other profits, what would be wrong with that?

>> Yeah, that's fair. Um, I guess it's mostly just I'm concerned because she's 57 and only has about 8,000 in retirement and you know I want to help her the best way that I can.

>> But keeping the house doesn't affect that positively.

>> Yeah. >> She's got to get on her own and start putting money away for retirement. That's what fixes that. The house is not causing her to have retirement or be broke. >> Yeah. >> What does she make?

Um, I think I'm not sure what she makes

now. She made about 40 last year, but

um, >> where's your dad?

>> Uh, my dad passed away when I was 16. It was like 11 years ago. >> Wow. I'm sorry.

>> It's all right. >> And so she she has struggled ever since.

>> Yes and no. She for a time period had a

really well-paying job. Um, but the

amount of hours she worked, she said, kind of just burn her out. But that's where most of her retirement money came from in the first place was just from that job. So, >> how often is she working? What's her work schedule look like right now?

>> Um, so she works she has two different

jobs, but they're both like part-time.

Um, just one she's an accountant for a restaurant and the other one she's kind of like a personal assistant. The problem is is your mom is a widow with a broken heart and she needs to dream again

because she's not got any income. And she's 55 years old. She's still very young.

>> Yeah. >> And she desperately needs to say, "What am I going to do with my life the next 20 years? I need a career where I make

where I'm working towards making $100,000 a year, not working two part-time jobs and living with my son.

Part of the problem is >> she's emotionally just getting by.

>> Well, she said she doesn't want a career. >> She needs a career.

>> Yeah. >> She needs something to put her hand to to give her meaning and give her something to drive for. She's too young

to sit on her butt.

>> She can't she and she can't afford it.

>> So consequently, her career has been deteriorating rather than going up.

>> Right. And so this is what she needs. So it will be good for you guys. It'll be good for her because it will force her to face all of this for y'all to separate this out. >> This this house does need to be sold.

>> Her if you give her how old you're 27, 28, right?

>> Yes. >> If you give her all the money from the house and just go live your life, you're

okay.

>> Yeah. Liz, so give her all the money and tell her to put it in help her put it in some good investments and and help her to you pay for a class and go take a class at the community college and start to what do you want to be the mom? Do you want to be a nurse now? Do you want to what is it you want to do with your life?

You're going to have to do something. And so it's time to sign up and dream. >> But the the plan that you guys had before dad died is is over now. We need a new different plan.

We need a new plan.

And she's perfectly capable.

Her biggest problem is she's just still living with a heartbreak.

Am I wrong?

>> Yeah. Cuz they divorced when I was a baby. So it wasn't >> Okay. So she Okay. But she's never really done anything since then then.

>> Right. Well, she had like I said like that I think she's only there for like six years. Six or seven years. the one job that she had I was saying that she actually had a good income from.

>> Um but yeah, after that she hasn't really had anything that was like >> What are you doing, Jake? What's your job? >> Um I work as a utility locator. I locate power lines. >> Okay. Okay. Yeah. I think it's good for both of you to sell this house. You both

need separate financial lives instead of trying to mingle it together. And you know, and and I think for both of you to encourage each other in this new endeavor for her and you encourage her, but there's only so much you can do, Jake. You're not going to be able to change her. You can't make her go do something, but you can speak and be encouraging in your conversations with her and what you see in her and what she's what she's good at, what she loves.

I mean, all of it.

>> Yeah. Prospering for someone. This is the second call we've taken today on a 55-y old lady, right?

>> Um, prospering for someone is not merely

making more money.

You're prospering when your spiritual life is full, your relational life is

full, >> your >> taking care of your body, >> your meaning, your your physical life is all of it. Yeah. >> That that is prospering. But these things are holistic in that they are tied together. And so when you allow one

area of your life to completely deteriorate, a 100% of the time some of the other areas are also deteriorating.

>> And so you get out of shape. You you

know you've you've given up on God. So you walked away from your spiritual life. >> You isolate yourself from friends.

>> You pull away from relationships. All of these things are and what we find is is that people that are successful work the opposite side of that >> and they're very intentional about building friendships. They're very intentional about their physical health.

They're very intentional about their spiritual walk. They're very intentional about their career and their money income. And they do all tie together. If

you have only one of those working in the wheel of life, as Zig Ziggler used to call it, um these different areas of you only have goals in one area of your life or two areas of your life, the other side of the wheel is flat and you have anytime you have a flat tire, you have friction. >> Yep. >> And it's a problem. And so, >> you know, we were just having a we did a podcast with a guy yesterday.

uh you did one interview and I did another and he was talking about how he interviews very high successful people, billionaires, people that have sold companies, you know, I mean just insane. And he said and you can sit with them and you feel almost like this energy from some some are still anxious and discontent and nothing is satisfying them. And he said all these buckets of their life you can tell are absent. Some of them they're not taking care of themselves physically.

They don't have good relationships >> and other ones you get and he said and you feel a peace. There's something about this um this well-roundedness and again there's certain seasons of life you're going to be working on your marriage more or certain seasons in your life you're be working on your career more. I mean you know it goes through seasons but overall the overall scope of your life having he would call these buckets.

like there's a there's a leveling to that and a a beauty a grounding that you really do feel and it's those people that live a a peaceful life.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. That's how it works.

So that that's what Jake, that's what we want for your mom and uh that's our advice. 5 years from today, you'll be the same person you are today except for the books you read, the people you meet, the goals you set, the decisions you do towards those goals. That's Charlie Tremendous Jones and he's he was exactly right.

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might not be in all states. >> Today's question comes from Sarah in Illinois. My boyfriend and I have been together for three years and he recently took a job four hours away. I own my condo and still pay about $1,500 a month in the mortgage even though I'm at his place 60% of the time. He's asked me to pay for a bigger apartment since we both work from home and need more space when I'm there. While I still have my own

bills, I understand the larger I understand the larger place benefits both of us. Should I help pay for the new apartment?

No, Sarah, I would not. That's his apartment and you have yours. And if he wants a bigger one, that's great. But >> and if he wants his girlfriend to live there, maybe she should be his wife.

>> Oh, that changes the equation.

>> Yeah. No, I wouldn't be mingling bills.

I wouldn't be trying to pay a rent because here's the thing. If you guys break up and then he's stuck with that rent that he can't afford, what's he going to do? So, it's way better when

you are dating to keep your finances separate. You pay your stuff, he pays his. And if he wants a bigger apartment so that you all can work there together and all the things, >> he wants you to live in that city and you sell your condo >> and we get a place there. Oh, that would be a great idea after we're married.

>> This is what's putting the problem on it. Yeah. Put a ring on it. That's the problem because it sets you up for a you

know, you're getting a bad end of this deal all the way around.

>> It's it's killer for you. So, um,

and it, this used to be, you know, when I started this show, Rachel, the the biggest thing that came up was credit card debt. Cut up your credit cards. And now I still say that. >> And then the next thing was we laughed and called it the instead of the Dave Ramsey show in the old days, we called it the sell the car show because like the answer to every question was sell the car. Sell the car. Now the answer to every question is get married.

So true though the amount of relational mess that happens the entanglement of dating people today >> when you messes up your finances married keep it separate when you are married combine it >> just that easy >> confusing it yeah it's it's because the data is in it's in I mean the the

research is in there's stacks and stacks of paper that says you're screwed that's

what it says every bit of the data says you are messed up because again I covered this in another hour but the a lady in her 30s has a net worth if she's

not married and she's living with someone and or just not married a net worth that is about onetenth of her married friends >> and the guy is what five times has has a

fifth of his net worth >> and a guy has about 25% of the net worth he should have. Yeah. And so the the the

there's a thing we used to call in the literature the marriage advantage.

And it's still there, but it's even more pronounced now in the financial realm, but it's pronounced in other realms as well. Like for instance, physical health. Uh a man that is married lives

seven years longer than a man that's not on average. That's just a statistic.

Okay? I mean, you could you could argue why. We could have lots of fun with that. Um, and >> women help men. That's why >> that's why better people.

>> Are you going to eat that? Yeah. I mean, it's that that's that's real. And so, um, the, uh, um, >> now, don't get married to someone who's a loser, too.

So, but don't be dating those people as well. Like, like, we're not saying just because >> I don't think that's her problem. >> No, but just in general. We're just like making generalities.

So, remember, be smart about it. If you enter into a lifelong covenant, make sure it's someone worth doing that. But people you're dating long term should be worth that. So >> yeah, but here's what's interesting on this here.

For Sarah's sake, look at this. >> Okay.

>> Now follow me. Oh, now pay for it.

>> Now pay for it.

>> Now pay for following me. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. I mean, Yeah. >> What a prince. >> Yeah. There we go.

It's It's all right there on the paper.

I'm just saying. David is in Phoenix.

Hey, David. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Good. Um, it's a pleasure to speak with the both of you.

I've uh I've heard that uh I've heard Dave talk before about the if Dave dies meeting and it got me really thinking about my own family. Um, and I feel like I need to have a similar conversation with my parents soon um as they get older. Um, just to give some context, I'm 23 years old. I have three siblings.

Uh my parents are 72 and 68 years old.

Uh my oldest sister is in her early 50s and I also have a brother and sister in their 20s who both have Asperger syndrome and they still live with my parents. >> Uh my parents are both retired. Um and to my understanding they have a a net worth of around $2 million. Um I'd like to have a family conversation sometime this year so everyone can get on the same page.

Um especially my my parents and my oldest sister um about the expectations for responsibilities and how the assets would be handled. um when they eventually pass away. Um because of as of right now, we're both kind of in the dark.

>> It's a great question. >> You have to lay a foundation with your family first that before you have that

other part of the conversation. And the first part of the foundation is mom and dad, I am not wanting to have this conversation because I want any of your money. >> Mhm.

>> I don't need any of your money. I am concerned about my two brother my is it a brother and a sister that have asberers. >> Yeah, it's a brother and a sister. >> I'm concerned about my brother and sister and how they're going to be cared for and what your wishes are.

And if I don't know your wishes in detail, it will be hard for me to honor your memory. And I I'm deeply concerned that I can do the right thing and that my older sister and I are in agreement on how we're going to do exactly what you want us to do when you pass away.

And they they need to hear that that's a foundational thing. You are not coming at this like I want some of the money.

Oh no, we're not going to talk about it cuz we're giving it to the two that are disabled, you know. Yeah. And so, you know, they'll get their backup that, you know, you you you'll get a resistance there, a defensiveness that we don't even need to start with. So, let's just lay that down.

Say, the only reason for this is for me to have the information to be able to honor your wishes and execute and ensure that what you've wished in the well, even if I'm not the executive, >> and to make sure that brother and sister um have the documents in place that they're going to be taken care of. You know, I want to make I want to make sure that there's Yeah. things are laid out from a legal perspective. >> Once I know what you want, then I'm going to help you get what you want.

Now, >> then do we have a proper will, >> which in this case would include probably special needs trusts to take care of the two special needs people, right? >> Okay. >> And um and and then how's that money going to be invested and what do you want done with that property and what do you want done with that investment account and how do you want it handled and who do you want us to contact? And um >> who's the executive?

You know, is it sister that's going to be, you know, doing all the details? my older sister the executive, that's fine. If you don't want me to know do anything with it, I won't do anything with it. All of that's okay.

for your all's peace of mind that that

we're all on the same page.

>> Okay? >> And and then what we're going to do once once we're all on the same page, the Ramsay thing is we just sit down and part of the meeting is we go through the real estate that we own and we look at it and we go, "Okay, here's what the will says about this real estate.

Um here's the life insurance that's in place and here's the beneficiaries on it and where it will go. In my case, there's not any. Um and um you know,

what do you want to have happen with the home place? What do you want to have happen with this or that? And it can go all the way down to my wife's 97 year old dad said told the kids about eight eight or 10 years ago his kids uh to

walk through the house and put a sticker on the back of something if they wanted it. >> And so the house has got all these sticky notes in the backs of the pictures and the backs of the figurines and stuff. >> Yeah. Now I will say it's funny. He asks the meeting is not called if Dave dies, it's when Dave dies. Dave will not

forever. >> If Dave dies this year. As long as it's if Dave dies this year. Okay, that's it. >> It's the Monty Python meeting. I'm feeling much better. >> We want him to live forever. It's just a flesh wound. It's not going to happen, but we love him.

Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade Warshaw.

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Our

scripture of the day, John 14:27. Peace I leave with you. My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

Babe Ruth said, "Never let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game." Briana is with us in Sou Falls, South Dakota. Hi, Briana. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I'm wondering if I should get a work from home job. I am a mom of three under

two and we're going under every time we get paid. >> Oh my goodness. You have twins?

>> Uh, no. I just had a baby. He's 3 months or just about 3 months old. >> Oh, wow. Okay. So, how much is the new job work from home's going to pay?

>> Um, I don't know. I'd have to see and find one, I guess. Um, but I did look into it and I'd have to make at least three,000 a month for it to be worth it cuz right now we are on um like SNAP and Wick and

Medicaid. So, I'd have to be able to make enough to cover all of that. What does your husband make?

>> Um, he makes roughly 43 after taxes.

>> Okay. >> And we're about 34,000 in debt.

>> What does he do?

>> He is a brick layer. He works for the

union. >> So with $43,000 income, you qualify for

every part of welfare. I didn't I didn't know that. >> Uh, yes. Through the through the winter

is when we qualify. We're just getting out of the winter cuz like we went through about two or three months where the max amount of money that we made was maybe 800 for that whole month. So we

qualified for all of that. Rick in Medicaid you qualif in the summer when he's working you don't qualify.

>> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay, that makes more sense. Now I'm now I'm tracking with you.

>> All right. >> Yeah. >> Um so he makes a lot more in the summer.

Like a bazillion times more. So, um, how long has he been doing that?

>> Um, he's been with the same company for about five years now. Six years, maybe.

>> All right. So, I think >> he just started working. >> Yeah. My first piece of advice for you all would be to pan back from this and say, um, we're a young couple with three children

and we're going to have to make some overall decisions about his career

that allow us to feed our children without the government doing it.

>> So, what is he going to do in the winter when he's not laying brick? In other words, >> um, we've gotten by by God's grace at this point. >> No, you got by by snap

>> because he wasn't working in the winter,

>> so he needs to be working in the winter.

>> That's my point. >> Is he not doing anything in the winter? >> Yep.

>> Uh, he'll do side jobs.

>> Yeah. >> But he didn't have anything this winter.

>> Yeah. He needs to be making a thousand bucks a month somewhere. I mean, thousand bucks a week. You know what I mean? in the winter waiting tables. I mean, doing >> and and what are we going to be doing when we're 44?

>> Because this plan's not real good.

>> Yep. >> It's leaving your family very vulnerable. Are you stressed? >> And I don't know how you're going to work at home with three kids under two and get any work done.

>> Yeah. >> Are you Did you have a career before?

>> Uh yes. I actually that's why we have we have about 12,000 in student loans cuz I

uh was a medical assistant.

>> Okay. But you're saying with daycare for three to three under two that's the most priciest age to put them in daycare is what you're saying. It just it's not making sense from a >> Yeah. You can't go into the workplace.

I understand that. I I don't have a problem with that >> assessment.

This is not a plan. It's it's it's put you guys it's painted you into a corner and your life is not fun. And so I want I want good things for you guys and it's going to involve him um making some changes in views on his income. uh

what's he going to be doing in the next 5 years that doubles his income >> or in the next 10 years that doubles his income and that and that sustains his family through the winter? He needs to be asking himself that. You two as a couple need to be asking yourselves that. Um and then that starts the whole

conversation. So part of your debt is a student loan debt. What's the rest of it?

um 17 is in a truck loan and then we

have 4,000 in a personal that got us through one winter and then um roughly

about 15 um in medical. Some of that's

in collections and then we owe family about a thousand. >> Okay. All right. I'm going to I'm going to be mean. Are you ready?

>> I am. I'm going to say you're going to sell the truck.

No, I'm going to say it worse than that.

Okay. You do not get to own a $17,000

truck when you're taking welfare to pay for your kids food.

>> I agree. >> That is not okay. >> My husband made that decision um about 3

years ago. This truck has eaten us alive since we got it through everything.

>> It's got to go. >> Yeah. The only So, I'm going to I guess

and then if this is going to be the thing, I've been telling him that we have to get rid of it as well. But if we only get about 10 grand for it, we're still going to have to pay that seven outright when we sell the truck. And we don't have any savings at all whatsoever. >> You'll be borrowing it from the place that has the truck loan to cover the difference.

And I bet you can get more than that for it if you sell it private sale.

Carvana will give him for it. And that's nothing compared to what he can actually get for it. A good working truck will bring a lot of money in Sou Falls, South Dakota. Okay? And so he can get a lot

more than 10 for it. And you're going to have you probably are in the hole some.

I'm not arguing that point. You're going have to borrow a little money to cover that hole. But I'd rather you be $45,000 in debt than 17.

>> And again, I'm addressing head on the decisionmaking paradigm that you guys are using to run your life. And what

you're doing is you're doing, I'm going to do this over here, and I'm going to do this over here. I'm going do this over here. But when you tie those three things together, they're not logical anymore. And it and it's it's creating

um pain for you guys. And I don't want that for you. I want you to win. >> Well, and you want to make sure your money habits and decisions, kind of what you're saying, regardless of what happens are are steady. Meaning that before they had kids, she was working as a medical assistant. He's a brick layer.

Can kind of do, you know, seasonally, I'm sure they were fine, right? Like he his seasonal work and her they could just make it. And then you pull her out of the workforce with three babies.

>> Yep. >> And suddenly your paradigm has to shift to your point. You can't like >> it's a lot of >> you can't have that. Yeah. You cannot continue to do what you've been doing.

And I'm talking to him. Um >> Yeah. What you did three years ago, meaning your truck, your choices on restaurants. I mean, like all of it all changes because your life has changed >> and your choices on side jobs in the winter.

Yep. >> And and or an overall career change over the next five years that causes your family to be able to stabilize and sustain. >> Yeah. That gets you to 70.

I mean, the manual side of the trades >> is wonderful. >> Is amazing. And so there's a lot of opportunity for us. >> They're a lot better than 40 grand a year.

>> Yep. >> Yeah.

stuck in what I'm doing is okay when what I'm doing is not okay.

>> That's the thing. And, uh, and I'm not hollering at you. I'm not hollering at him for that matter. But but um you know when he was by himself and wasn't married and he was laying brick and he had a little downtime in the winter, he'd work it out. >> But now he's got responsibilities.

And um >> and Brian, I don't even know how you're coherent sentence of with a three-month-old and two todd you have a lot on your plate. And honestly, if you were just a full-time mom taking care of the household, making sure those babies are alive at the end of the day, right? I mean, like, that's a full-time job. So, I understand the money needs to happen and and I hope that yeah, there's a good situation that you can bring in some, but I mean, honestly, call me old school, but I'm leaning on on him, dude.

>> Get to work. Get to work. I got three babies at home that I'm taking care of.

>> It's no joke. >> And and it's and it's not just it's not that he's not working hard now, >> but it's get to work in a way that it brings in the money to take care of your family and get your truck sold, dude.

>> Yeah. Yeah, but when you bring $800 home a month, >> I know. Get your truck sold. Then you get to work. Yeah, you got to get you got to get some stuff going here and get you a $5,000 truck. That's the thing.

>> Call us back, Briana, if you guys need anything. We are >> Hang on. We'll we'll send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover and get you on every dollar and try to help you if we can. >> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 69. Fix Your Own Financial House Before Funding Someone Else’s | March 2, 2026


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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform [music] your life. From the Ramsay Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show

alongside the fabulous, incomparable Jade Warshaw. I'm just kid. That's a

That's a That's a lyric, you know. I'm sorry. >> From [music] the Barbie movie. That's all. I'm just trying to do a little shout out. See if the audience is awake and paying attention. Fabulous studio audience today. Handsome looking group of people that we'll meet here in a little bit out there watching in the lobby. So, let's get right to it.

88255225.

That's the number to jump in today.

Sarah joins us in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Sarah, how can we help?

>> Hey guys. Uh, so my husband and I keep on loaning his mom money. She always pays it back to be fair, but then she asks again, and I'm starting to really resent it, and we disagree on whether to keep helping >> and I just don't know how to go forward with my husband from here. >> Oh boy. Obviously, you don't want to. he feels he has to. Is that a fair classification? Okay. And tell me about the last conversation >> uh that you guys had about this. How did it go?

>> Uh well, it started because uh she asked for $7,000 to fix her car.

>> Whoa. I thought this was in [laughter] the $70 range to be completely honest.

>> No, no, no. >> This is NOT CHUMP CHANGE. WOW. NO, it's

it's always thousands of dollars. And I

I basically told him like, listen, we're her piggy bank, and I'm tired of being her piggy bank. And she >> What did he say?

>> Go ahead. >> Uh well, he says that she never asks for

frivolous things. It's always quote unquote an emergency or important.

>> Okay. Tell me what the $7,000 ask was for. just uh I think it was the transmission on her car.

>> And how often does this occur? Is this once a year? Is it every couple months?

And is it always like to the tune of like thousands of dollars? Or is it sometimes just like spot me a two a couple hundies? >> No, [laughter] it's it's always it's always thousands of dollars. It's at least once a year and it's sometimes

twice a year. >> And she always pays it back.

>> She does. Yeah. And how long does that take? >> Um, I don't know cuz I This is all just

my husband's word, but I think six months. >> Yeah, this is tough. The reason I asked because I really wanted Jade to lean in on this one because you are the wife and

this is tough for me. I don't have any clear response because the reason I asked about the relationship conversation was what had happened the last time we talked about it and it and you didn't give me a lot of detail but from what I inferring he basically was like well it's not frivolous she needed a new transmission and so in his mind he's justifying mom's crazy ass he's on

mama's side and that's a problem >> and so she's in so I'm gonna actually defer to you here >> because this not to say that a man can't inform this question, >> but I do think it's unique. I want you to lead off here because to be honest with you, I'm not sure what she does here. >> Um, I think that this is a classic. This

is kind of a classic uh leave and cleave type deal where the the son has to go, I

love my mom. My mom made me, she raised me. I have nothing but love for her. But if I'm forced to choose >> Yeah. And my wife is not wrong. It's

just a you Well, I think I think the husband's wrong, but I'm just saying in his mind, in his mind, if he's is if he's seeing it as a as a question of preference, my mom prefers this. My wife prefers this, you got to go with the wife every time.

>> Yeah. And that's the question I have quick. I don't want to totally interrupt your momentum, but I do want Sarah. I mean, is he completely clear? If he were sitting right here with Jaden, would he be completely clear that you've had it with this or or does he think you're just mildly frustrated? What does he think? >> I think I [clears throat] he's he knows that I've kind of had it with this.

>> Okay. >> Now, I get pretty blunt with him.

>> You said something earlier that begs a couple of questions from me. Uh when I asked, "Does she pay the money back?" By the way, that's neither here nor there to the question of whether you should lend it. I was trying to understand his

point of view a little bit more. so I can >> argue it. Um, but what you responded was was interesting. You said uh that basically as far as you know based on your husband's word which made me think like do you not have access into seeing

uh each other's finances are you sharing finances basically?

>> I mean technically we do but we do not

have a joint bank account. >> Okay. So that that right there and I'm going to tell you right now, uh, Sarah, I've been we've been getting more and more of these calls where what happens is you guys have not fully aligned on

finances, the philosophy of it, nor how

we uh share our money, right? There's still this kind of side business going on where we have we have one account that we put checks in, but we also have our side accounts. What happens when you set up life like that is you um you you

actively pull yourself out of being uh the decision maker with your spouse on every major financial issue because you've already said we're not fully together. >> And so that I think is why your husband is operating over here saying, "Ah, it's [clears throat] not that big of a deal. She always pays me back." I'm not saying it's right. I'm just >> understanding it.

>> It's actually great insight there. It's a really good point, Sarah. I hope you're hearing what she's saying because here here's where this goes. You guys are going to have to have a mediator and I think it's a marriage therapist because to Jay's point, things have been so separate.

>> It's a total reason to start this point that and again, he just he needs a completely new perspective and and you don't want to put yourself in a place where you're threatening him, >> right? And then making him make a false choice. Now, if he was sitting here with me, I'd look at him straight in the eye and go, "Hey, bro, listen to me. You got to twist >> like you got to you got to choose your wife here.

You got to grow up. Take the diaper off, the emotional diaper. Uh this is embarrassing. I mean, I would just go straight at it.

He's not here today. So, we want to equip you, but I think Jade's insight is absolutely phenomenally on target. So because of that, I think you're going to have to have a marriage therapist to bring you together, hopefully a skilled one who is the middle ground and can go, "We do have to reset." Cuz I think he's operating like, "What's the big deal?" >> Yeah. Because you're the one who, and I'm not saying this in a wrong way.

But if you look at what the agreement was, right? If you if you and I say, "Here's the stakes. We'll do this together." and then you're the one who changes. He has the right to be confused or wonder, well, what's the big deal?

>> And again, I can't stress this enough. I believe you're right in wanting to not continue to lend her money. But in that, that's not the bigger problem. The bigger problem is we actually need to have full transparency on our money. We need to be fully combined on our money.

And I agree with Ken. Counseling is the way to to start that new process.

>> And here's the ask. Here's what you got to tell him. You have to say, "We have to do this. We have to go to counseling.

It's not a threat. We have to go. This is causing me to resent you and your mom. I don't like it and I don't have the tools to convince you. So, will you please do this for me? I think that's your posture. And um and and and you

know, the context has to be reset because you guys are not on the same page. Therefore, he's like, "What's the issue?" So, going to be tough. Uh it's not going to be easy, >> right? But Jade, in this situation, there is no easy. This has to be

confrontation. And to your point, a fullblown operational reset. Gota reboot. >> Absolutely. And and then on the money front, what I see honestly, just on the money front, it's only a matter of time because she's not been a good the mother-in-law has not been a good manager of finances. It's only a matter of time before she stops paying you guys back is what I see because she's just not a responsible person with her money.

Oh, and be prepared, and I don't want to judge her, but be prepared for a pretty nice blowback from mom, >> because I believe she's either knowingly

or unknowingly manipulating your husband, her son. >> Wow. >> And that's going to be sticky and stinky. >> Words of Scar. Be prepared.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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We're going to go to Reagan next [music] in Houston, Texas. Reagan, how can we help?

>> Hi. [music] So, my husband and I um we're both 25. We have two kids and we

are kind of living paycheck to paycheck when I feel like we shouldn't be. Um, we're trying to figure out what's the best way to kind of pay down our debt as well as still put money into the savings account to help, you know, [clears throat] have an extra layer of cushion.

>> Okay. Okay. Tell me a little bit more

about how much debt you have and what type of debt it is.

>> Um, so without our mortgage payment, um,

it's about $60,000.

Uh mainly credit cards, vehicle loans,

and some medical bills.

>> Okay. How much of it is the car?

>> Uh our vehicle. So

our his truck payment is about 40,000 and mine's about 4,600.

>> Okay. So 40,000 is the total amount that you owe on his car. What's the total amount that you owe on your car?

>> About 4,600.

>> Oh, 4,600 total. Okay, I hear you. All right. Um I when I look at this and you tell me, "Hey, we're living paycheck to paycheck." The number one glaring obvious reason I see are are the cars.

Um what's his monthly payment and what's your monthly payment?

>> So the car payment is 378 a month and

the truck payment is about 600 a month.

>> There you go. Yeah. What difference would it make if you cleared that out and had an extra almost thousand bucks a month in your life?

>> Um [clears throat] yeah, it's a lot. And it's also I think also daycare because we spend a little over a thousand a month on daycare. >> Yeah, daycare will get you. But that's not something that we can really change right now. The thing that we can really change and affect uh is this car payment. Tell me about you guys' income.

What do you bring in every month and what does he bring in?

>> Um so together roughly 7,600. Um I just

got a promotion a couple months ago so our income went up and we had we had to

buy a vehicle. It didn't necessarily have to be the truck, but um you know,

right now we're trying to figure out what's the best way to pay this down because I will probably need a car here in a couple years, maybe a year or two, um because my car keeps breaking down.

>> Yeah. So, let's solve for that then. I mean, what I would do, I mean, yes, you're right. You have to have vehicles um to to to operate life. So, I agree with that. However, when you're, you know, $60,000 in debt, clearing out

40,000 of it, which is a vehicle, makes a humongous difference. So, if he sold that vehicle today, what could he get for it?

>> Uh, possibly 35, 40.

We just we just bought it in October.

>> Even Even better. Even better. You won't be as far upside down on it. >> Do you have any money saved?

Uh we have about $6,000 in our savings and about $4,300 coming within the next

month or so from our our college scholarships we get.

>> So we're going to have access to

$10,300 that is above and beyond your income and that's coming quickly. We've already got six. Well, are you familiar with our baby steps and how they work?

>> Yes. So I purchased the book last year.

So, we saved up the money and we've been trying to pay down the lowest amount of debt we've had or whichever.

>> But if you're familiar with the baby steps, baby step one is how much in the bank?

>> A,000. >> All right. You got 6,000. >> Is it six? Yeah.

>> So, Jade, what does she do with the five? We got good news for you [laughter] on this truck. >> Let's roll through this. Yeah. Let's pretend Yeah. that you only get 35 for it. Okay. You've got the five to put with it. So that that's a clean break right there. And then to your point, if you've saved up 600, you know, if you've

cleared 600 extra dollars a month, theoretically, how quickly could you save for a cash car, >> right? If you said for for a split second, I'm going to pause the debt snowball and I'm going to stack up uh some money as quickly as possible. How quickly could you stack up five or $6,000? I think making 7,600 a month, I

think you could do it pretty quickly. Yeah. >> So that's really the play here. Um, anytime you have debt, I'm going to find out ways to clear it very, very quickly because the faster we do this, the more motivated you're going to be to continue. So, in a world where you sell

that car now, suddenly instead of 40,000, instead of 60,000 of debt, we've got 20,000 and you've got more money per

month to knock that out. I think this is kind of like a a win-win. And then you have this $4,300 coming that goes towards your car fund.

Does that make sense? >> Okay.

>> How on a on a scale of 1 to 10, be honest with me. How excited are you about that solution?

>> I'm kind of in the middle. I'm a little nervous. Um cuz right now my biggest

Well, not the biggest concern obviously, but uh my car is one cuz I don't want to

have to buy a two new vehicles and go into two car payments again.

>> That's Well, that's what I'm solving for. So, let me let's let's roll through that. >> Hold on a second. Where before you roll through this, where did you hear that we want you to have two car payments when Jay just spent a couple minutes telling you how to get rid of the only one you have?

>> No, [clears throat] I I heard that. I was just it it goes through my mind cuz we we have really bad luck with vehicles and so you know >> Okay, I'm glad you're saying this.

>> Here's what I want to talk about. So, we gave you the advice. It's normal to very very quickly get very emotional about it, right? Cuz uh we've had bad luck with advice.

Oh, or I'm sorry, we've had bad luck with cars. Oh, you know, I have to think about how to tell my husband this. Oh my gosh, you know what about security? Right?

Your brain starts going through all those emotional plays. So, I want you right now to tell me the top three things that pop and Ken and I are going to dismantle that in a completely logical unemotional way.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, first thing you said is we've had bad luck with cars in the past. Ken, what you got? >> So have I. Uh that's just life, right?

So this idea that you're stuck in this bad luck thing. No, you're not. You're just a part of the human race. It's a little bit of the human lottery, right?

I mean, you know, you go look at a mechanic, any mechanic place in your local area, and you're going to see a steady stream of cars. Probably not a bad idea to go, "Oh, I don't have bad luck. I'm driving an imperfect machine, and there's thousands of other people in my zip code." So, I think it's mindset is how I would dismantle that and go, "All right, now how do I uh prepare for

>> oddsuck have better odds?" >> How do I make the odds better? Well, I'm going to put enough money away that I can take care of a basic mechanical issue and keep moving forward. Is it a little bit of a step back every time?

Absolutely. So, >> or or you can do a lot of great research on the front end to make sure you're making better choices than you've made in the past. >> That's right. Take longer to buy the next car, right? get it checked out by a mechanic. Buy a car that has better odds, right? We can name the brands and you can look them up that can do much better. I mean, I'm I'm a guy right now that's got three teens, okay? I got more

cars than I had ever thought that I would have owned. All of them used and I'm driving a used car. Um, and I do the

research and I get these things checked out by a mechanic that I trust because I

got two teens right now driving every day. Yeah. And I'll tell you what I do.

I have a Christian Brothers in my neighborhood. It's a local mechanic.

I'll bring when we're looking at used vehicle vehicles, you can bring them over there and they'll give it a once over for you and check it out so you can feel good about the purchase. So, okay, that was the first thing. Uh, next idea that could be a potential issue could be what? Um, just the idea of downgrading vehicle because other people see it.

>> You're driving a car that stinks.

>> Yeah. Everybody saw you get a new vehicle and now suddenly you >> So I got the saw for that. You know what you drive around the corner >> if you're ashamed of the car and I've been there. Okay. When I first got married I had a Ford Taurus. Okay. And it had no AC and um and one day on the

way to work the felt on the top of the ceiling of the car just fell down on top of my head at a stoplight. I was very embarrassed. >> The dignity loss of dignity. >> It was very embarrassing. I got [laughter] home that night and I couldn't afford to fix it. So, you know what I did? I got a staple gun out.

>> Come on. >> Three shots. Took care of that business.

And then, but I was embarrassed. So, guess what? I always had a good excuse or a creative way of getting out of driving anybody to lunch. [laughter] That was pretty creative. Number two, if I had to go to a meeting, I pulled around the corner and walked and just acted like there was no place to park.

>> Perfect. >> There are some creative psychological things you can do to not be ashamed of the hooptie. >> Yes. >> For a season.

So, I think that's kind of I I'm addressing that cuz I think that's part of it is our pride. >> The point the point is what we're suggesting you are going to feel an emotional backlash immediately. But I want to challenge you to work yourself through it because chances are it's just that first feeling of cuz you don't know what's it's fear. It's fear is what it is.

You've never done something like this before. You've never done something this drastic. You don't know how it's going to play out. But we do.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem. It's a behavior problem.

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[music]

Okay, folks. One of the best things to do for your finances is to have a really, really good tax pro in your corner. They'll help advise you on the best moves to make for your situation, maybe your small business, and if you've had some big life changes in the last year. So, go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

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And uh these agents that you will see there have been vetted by our team.

They're going to teach you the way that we would teach you. And this is a good move if you've never done this before. So do that and you'll be better for it.

Eric is up next in Phoenix, Arizona.

Eric, how can we help?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Good. Thanks for having me. >> Yeah, you bet.

>> Pretty good. So, um I'm in a bit bit of a pickle. My mom co-signed a lease with my brother about four years ago and he's

in and out of jobs. he doesn't really like working in corporate even though he had the opportunity to do so and now he can't afford it and he wanted to get it repoed um which he said no so we she's

been asking for help to pay bills and so

um now the car is just kind of sitting it's being used but we had asked her to sell it by we I mean my my other siblings and mine but she doesn't want to sell it um why >> she's kind of underwater so even if she does sell it she won't get much for

Okay. How much do you guys Well, let me say how much does the mom and the brother owe on it?

>> About 20 grand left on it.

>> Okay. What's it worth if they sold it?

>> Bad shape. He kind of ruined it.

>> Sorry. >> You said somebody ruined it. She ruined it or he ruined it.

>> He ruined it when he was using it.

>> Just wrecking it. >> He just didn't take care of it. Maintenance. Yeah, it's it's been wrecked a couple times as well. >> Uh why are you calling? Area is terrible. >> Because mom has asked him to help out.

and brother because brother >> she had an accident last year as well >> been taking care of while she's been uh going through rehab and physio and stuff like that. >> Understood. >> What could she sell the car for today?

>> Maybe five grand honestly.

>> Oh gosh. >> If she's lucky. >> Okay. Um well this is first of all this your brother is in a season of life where he

is impersonating a deadbeat.

>> [laughter] >> And so dead beats only wake up when

they're forced to wake up. But the problem is mom's name is on this and she refuses to help herself. Correct.

>> Kind of. >> What would >> the main reason she doesn't want to necessarily take it back to the bank or maybe just get it repoed which >> repo is not an opo is not an option and we can talk to you about that why that is but continue continue on.

>> Yeah. So eventually she says she wants to get a house soon enough which I personally think she can't afford.

>> So the biggest thing for me really is just um

continuing to help feels like enabling.

>> I don't know how to approach her in a sense like okay in as much as we've been helping this entire time >> you there's a couple things she could do. >> What else have you been do what else have you been doing to help? cuz it sounds like you've already been down that road.

>> It's mostly just um bills and you know rent and stuff like that. I still live at home but I just got married so I'm moving out. >> Is that because of the accident or that's just always been ongoing?

>> It's been [clears throat] ongoing but more so after the accident.

>> And who's we? I thought I heard you say we've been helping.

>> Uh my siblings and I. Uh my I have a younger brother and then an older sister. Are your siblings that have been helping with the bills, are they all in the same opinion of you that you just said, which is I feel like I'm helping and it's enabling. Do they have the same feeling?

>> Somewhat. My older sister, yes. My younger brother, um, not too sure.

>> Okay. >> He doesn't say much. >> I listen, I you you asked a question and I'm going to answer the question that I heard and that is how do I approach her on this? How do I handle this? And this is you going, "Mom, I can't do this anymore.

>> Here's what you should do." Mhm.

>> If I were you, this is what I would do.

And you lay it out and say, I'd sell the car. Because every day that she doesn't sell the car, there's like another calamity that's probably going to happen to this. And I feel like this entire car represents a lot of the calamity that your brother creates. And no one is willing to do anything about it. And so I, if I'm you, I go to mom and I go, "Mom, sell the car today because we got to at least get five grand for it." And that at least lessens the debt by 5,000.

And then we have a $15,000 problem. You got all these other financial problems that are more important than this stupid car. So, mom, here's how I'm going to help going forward. I can't help you financially anymore. I've got to move on. I suspect that you don't have the finances and the margin to be able to keep helping her anyway without hurting you. True or false?

>> True. >> True. So, that's the conversation. Mom,

I can't. >> Even if I wanted to, I can't.

>> So, here's how I can help. I'll be willing to list the car, sell the car.

I'll be willing to have a conversation with younger brother and grab him by the nap of the neck and just absolutely as only a brother can lay into his butt >> and with both hands >> with both hands >> ambidextrous. [laughter] >> Very well done, Jade. And and and you

like use both hands. Clap him on both ears. [laughter] Okay, now here's the deal. And that's a lay it out and move on and say you got

to help mom.

>> Yeah. And I think all the siblings should unite on an intervention. Outside of that, Jade, that's what I'm thinking of. What What else did I leave off the table?

What would you do here? >> Uh there's a part that that can help relationally, I think, early on, if it's possible. You said mom co-signed for brother, which makes me think mom has better credit. I wonder if she can refinance this and get him off of it so that at least you're separating that relational tie and then from there on she can make whatever um choices she's going to make with the car separate from the brother.

waters just a hair uh as she decides what she's going to do next. Um but other than that, Ken, I think Ken is exactly spot on. I I I have nothing to add. >> Yeah, >> this is tough. So selling the car would be private sale is get the most money.

Yeah.

>> Okay. >> And what she can do and you can advise her of this if her credit's all right.

Uh in the process of getting him off the loan when you're in there, you can say, "Here's what we want to do. We need a loan for the difference cuz ultimately we're going to sell this thing. So we need to get him off of the loan in the process and then we're transferring it to a personal loan." And when she does that, if she wants to add a little something to it to get something in cash, that's fine. But I think because

of the nature of how much she owes on it, she's probably, you know, she would

end up basically back in $20,000 of debt. So, I think the bigger part here is to get the brother off of it. And then maybe maybe and I don't know what your lifestyle is, but maybe that's a way you could help her out, which is, hey, while you're saving up for your next vehicle, I can help if you need a ride, you know, in between the Ubers that in the bus rides that you'll be taking, I can help with that. Maybe that's something you can offer.

>> Yeah. And and then you we need to caution mom. You're nowhere near buying a house. Not even close.

Are you renting?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. No, you she is not thinking about buying anything. Uh we got to get her healthy. Do you feel like her long-term physical prognosis is good where she can get back to work?

>> It's been better. She's going to extend a little bit because she's still in some pain. Um so maybe by July maybe she'll

be >> What is she living off of? Is there some type of a disability or insurance that she's getting? What's what's going on there?

Yeah, she had gotten uh disability for a little bit and then she was pulling it pulling some out of her insurance.

I think uh life insurance >> uh from >> I think she barred against that.

>> Oh my gosh. Mom.

>> Wow. Okay.

>> Yeah, this is tough. Um

tell me and and you can be vague, but the nature of her injuries, how serious is this? And and how old is she? because I want to know really honestly what she's going to be able to get back to doing work-wise.

>> It was pretty bad. She got rear ended while she was stopped at a light. Um and then >> she's around mid-50s so it's pretty slow

progress recovery. >> What was she doing beforehand? What was what was her job and what was she earning?

She was doing uh a bunch of different things, but she at that time she was

doing uh Uber as a side gig. And then

>> Okay. I think what the ways that you can help her are as following. Help her uh get her brother off the loan. That's thing one. Thing two is I want you to

help her with the career side of things.

We're going to give you Kim's uh find the work you're wired to do assessment.

Uh it's a book that'll help you and there's an assessment inside. help her go through that because she it sounds like she needs to create stability in her career or create a career so that she can create stability in her finances going forward. I hope she's well and I hope she recovers very very quickly.

>> And I would just add you siblings need to get together and essentially fire this brother >> Yeah. from her life for a while.

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[music]

[music]

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>> All righty then. Today's question comes from Nicholas in Illinois. He says, "I since I discovered your show last year, I've sold my truck and almost all my furniture. I've worked three jobs, escaped $35,000 of debt, and now have

15,000 sitting in the bank. Well done, my man. My mom wants me to open a credit

card so I can go to Italy with her to

visit my sister without losing any of my recent progress. Wow. I have the money

to pay my way, but she's insistent on me

getting a credit card. How do I explain to her that although that seems like a smart move, it's really not? Uh,

Nicholas, my guy, you haven't told us how old you are. So, I don't know if you're 18. I don't know if you're 35. I don't know how old you are, but the answer remains the same.

I don't think you have to explain anything to your mom, uh, nor listen to her advice. I think you can very politely say, "Thank you for your insight," and move on. >> Yeah, this is a very perspacious young man. I don't know if I said that right.

There's a word I receive. >> What are you trying to say? >> He's very He's got good insight. He He picked up on this this this temptation issue.

>> Perspicious. >> Yeah. Have you ever heard that before? I like a good word.

>> It's like one with keen insight. Is that okay? >> Yes, it is.

So, mom is playing the emotional game.

>> Okay. And she's going, "Okay, I'm so proud of you, son. You did a good job, >> but I don't want you to have to use any of that cash. So, let's just go to Italy." and she thinks he's getting ahead and she doesn't understand that

it's a millstone around his neck and he gets it and she's projecting her. She's projecting her fears on him.

>> Here's what you say. Mom, >> I'm sorry. This is my money, my life.

>> I don't agree with you.

>> Like I disagree. This is hard for young

people, by the way. You know, certainly late teens, early 20s, mom and dad have

so much influence. These, by the way, this is a kid who respects his mom.

facts. Yeah. >> There's no question about it. And so it's very very hard where when you you're beginning to to strike out on your own, he clearly has on some level, certainly has with his money.

>> And then a parent comes in and says, "Do something." And again, whether it's money or something else, and a parent makes a strong suggestion.

>> Yes. >> It's really hard to go against your instinct. Your whole life, you've tried to say yes so you don't get in trouble.

And now you're in a place where you go, "That doesn't make any sense and I'm not really going to get in trouble except for if I do what mom says, I'm actually in financial trouble." It's really confusing. And so I'm kind of expanding this to our very large audience on this to say, "Hey, [snorts] young people, look, when you finally figure this stuff out and you agree with what we teach, at some point you're going to have to go, thanks. I really appreciate your insight. I disagree. I'm not going to do

it. Here's why." >> Well, do you even confidently walk away?

But here's that. Here's my my argument.

Do you even have to explain why? That's my thing. Cuz my >> you don't have to. >> That's a that's a credit. >> Very good point. So my answer to that is he doesn't have to, but I think it's expedient to do so. In other words, you

can honor your parents and still say no.

>> That's right. >> And I think in this case, I'm always going to say honor them once. If they keep coming back, go I I'm not actually going to have this conversation.

>> Okay. Let me crack the door open on another piece of this um puzzle. And

you've got two older boys, so I think that you're >> the what was the word you use?

>> Perspeacious. Yes. Very good. >> You have a ppeacious uh You're really leaning in on my word. I appreciate that. I'm just trying to reuse it for you. Okay. So, you've got two older boys. How much and and we don't know how old Nicholas is.

>> How much of this is due to oversharing?

Because I know I got to the point pretty early on where it's for my parents to know how much money I have that I sold my truck that I got 15,000 over here that I don't have credit. Like that's a lot for a parent to know for a grown adult. >> Uh that's a really good question. I don't know the answer.

Uh could be. And I think it's a very good point to say, you know, if let's say he's in his early 20s. Um yeah, he doesn't need to be sharing all that information. If mom says, "Hey, we want you to go to Italy." He goes, "All right, let me uh let me check.

Let me see if I can do that." and he says, "Yes, that's a very good point." In other words, at some point, you've got to create your own financial independence by not sharing all that. >> It's it's just your business point.

you know, it's been a long time. But I

don't think when I went to college and I started working, >> did you share >> that I was sharing with my parents how much I had in the bank account?

>> I I definitely did not. Uh I might say

something like, "Hey, I'm thinking of getting new a new car. or I have 10,000 to spend. What do you think I should get? Like I might say something like that.

>> Yeah, >> but to just for them to just know all my business out in the streets like this guy here. Definitely not. >> It's a very good point. Create a boundary there.

Let's go to Grace in Atlanta, Georgia. Grace, how can we help? >> Hi. Um I'm 29 years old.

My husband is 30 and we've been going back and forth on whether we are ready to buy a house or not.

and have plenty of emergency funds after that. But I think we're ready.

>> And what what is your financial position if you're ready? What do you have to put down? >> Um I think we have the 20% down. I think

his biggest concern is that I bought a

house uh during COVID. Um, but that house is currently being rented and so the mortgage is being covered plus a little bit more. Um, >> oh, he's worried about taking on two mortgages. >> Absolutely. >> And I agree with him.

>> Why wouldn't you um why wouldn't you get

rid of your existing mortgage and put that money towards the down payment and security on your family home with him?

>> Well, um, because at the moment it's being rented and it has been for two or three years. When's >> the lease up?

Um, I believe uh the end of this year.

>> Okay, >> that's what I would do. I would move into that house. You've already bought a home and you got renters and you've you have basically dodged a major bullet thus far. Sounds like >> in other words, you're barely making enough to cover the mortgage. Yes.

>> Uh, well, the Well, yes. I think I make

like $300.

That's a whopping $3,600

a year. Woo! Grace, you're getting rich on that one. And that doesn't include your actual expenses on said house.

>> Correct. >> Which if it you hold it long enough, >> you hold it long enough, you will end up going in the negative in one year, maybe two consecutive years in a row. I am not negative. I am positive that will happen. And [snorts] so if it's me, I'm

I'm going to move into this house at the end of the year. And now we're building equity. You're already building equity, which is great, but now you live in it. I would not buy another house. >> I want to know I want to know about that current house. What is the mortgage on it? What do you owe every month on it?

>> You were the So we haven't So the We

currently we did not buy a second home.

We are wanting to buy a second home.

>> I'm talking about the current rental. What's the mortgage on it? Oh. Um, I

have 200,000 left.

>> Great. >> What do you pay every month?

>> Every month, uh, 1,200.

>> Okay. And what's you guys' income? You and your your husband?

>> Uh, I get a 100,000 every year before

taxes and my husband makes 130 before

tax. >> Excellent. Okay. So, even if you, to Ken's point, if you, you know, after the lease is up, renters are out, you guys moved in, or if you wanted to sell it and get something that suits you guys' needs, I would 100% do that deal >> in two seconds. >> How much is that house worth?

>> Um, about 300, maybe 310.

>> So, you'd walk away with 110. How much do you guys have saved right now for a down payment? >> Um, I have 147,000, but that includes

>> No, no, no. Don't give me that. How much do you have? that's set aside just for a down payment. >> Just for a down payment, I would say

47,000 and my husband about 15,000.

>> Okay. So, we're separate finances. We don't have time to cover that one. >> We'll talk about that later. >> I I I think you guys either move into that house >> or you sell it. And now you guys have about 200 grand if I'm doing quick math or just under 200 grand to put towards another home. >> That's the play. not keep both houses, not create another mortgage, and then, you know, play this uh roulette game of

landlording. >> And just to set the record straight, the what you're aiming for more so than the 20% down, what you're looking for is for that payment to be no more than 25% of your take-home fee, all included.

>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit [music] Union studio.

I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside and Peter is on the line in

Ottawa. Peter, how can we help today?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Good. How are you?

>> I'm doing fine. I'm doing fine. Uh I'm

23 years old and I'm trying my best to

manage a business

and uh I'm having you know trouble with

it or actually I'm having trouble with the with the with the decision that I want to keep doing this. >> Is it your business or are you managing it for someone else? Uh it

it's my dad's business, but I've been managing him for for like two years now because he's not he's not well.

>> Okay. And so what is your dilemma?

>> Uh I'm I'm I'm just stuck in a lot of debt that I don't know how to get out of

uh I don't know if I want to keep doing this >> the job. >> On the other hand, I don't know. I don't know what else I would do would do, you

know. >> Okay. >> With myself. >> Okay. So, I'm glad you share it that way. So, I'm going to do a quick analysis. Tell me if I'm right. Feels like our biggest problem is the 200,000 in debt. The secondary problem is I don't want to run my dad's company the rest of my life. That's the secondary problem. Is that a good way of laying it out? >> Uh, I do want to run it. It's not that I

don't want to run it. It's It's just I don't know how to >> You don't know how to run it, >> you know? >> Yeah. Cuz clearly I'm not doing doing that good of a job.

>> Self awareness. >> Okay. And the company's not doing well.

>> Uh it was up until my dad got really

sick. Like really really sick. Okay.

>> And uh I had to take care of him for about 2 three months and the company didn't run without me.

>> Okay. And now where are we at?

>> Uh we're at I I just had my warehouse

closed out for 3 months for for non-payment of the rent and I just got it opened with some negotiation. And how's your dad?

>> He's better. That's why I got back to it. >> Okay. >> I mean, he's still sick. That's that's part of my, you know, uh >> I understand. But I'm leaning in here to say, uh it sounds like you were doing okay running it until you were the only caretaker or felt you were the only caretaker for your dad. And at which point you weren't doing hardly anything at all. It doesn't sound like you were um clueless. Is that you were not present. Is that true?

That is >> okay. So, let me ask another question.

If you're back involved and dad is not

as sick and he might be well enough to

uh guide you, do you feel confident you can get this thing back on the tracks?

>> I uh I am confident. It's just it just I

don't I don't know how to put it on paper. I don't know how to plan this.

That's >> You don't know how to plan? And and the reason I'm leaning into this is because this is your sole source of income right now and you have a lot of debt. So we got to figure out where you need to be spending your time so you can make money because it's money and cutting. And Jay's going to come in and walk you through where you're cutting. But I'm trying to get an idea of what is before you to where you can make money. So one

more followup. When you say you don't know how to put it on paper, can you be specific? What do you mean?

>> Uh it's it's just how to manage the debt that I'm in. Oh. So, so I'm 200,000 total in debt, but a 100,000 of it is is like a vendor debt, which I'm not worried about. As I make orders, I cut it pieces. >> Is the is any of this personal debt?

>> Uh the other 100,000 is it's not

personal, but it's like taken from family and friends.

>> Okay. It's your debt, though. It's not the company's debt. >> It's it's not the company's debt. It's my debt. >> Okay. And the and then the other 100,000 is the company debt.

>> It is the the company debt. Yeah.

>> Okay. Well, okay. These are two different situations. So, that's good for us to know. What are you paying yourself or what are you getting paid?

>> Uh up until 3 months ago, I was I was

paying myself enough to, you know, uh

around 4,000 a month. Enough for my rent and expenses.

>> Okay. All right. I want to bring Jade in here because we got two lines of debt here. One is the company's debt and one is your personal debt.

And that's where >> I don't know if it's I'm sorry. I don't know if it's going to be different, but the 100,000 that's personal. I took it to help the company. I don't know if it's it's any different.

>> So, you borrowed money from family and you personally borrowed the money from family and friends to use that money for the business. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, then it's all business debt.

I mean, >> okay, now we got that. >> We get We It was all for the business. Let me put it like that. Okay.

So, the only way to clear this is to bring in more revenue that can be converted to using to pay off the debt.

>> Correct. >> So, what do you see? Do you see possibilities to do that? Are you I don't know what the nature of the business is. What do you guys do?

>> Uh it's it's a used clothing business. I sort them into categories and ship them out ship them out to Africa.

>> Oh my gosh. >> In Africa. >> Okay. Very interesting. I know nothing about that world. I'm going to tell you that straight up. But I can tell you right here what I'm the way to pay off debt, right, is you have to have more money coming in that can be used for that purpose. So it goes back to Ken's question, which is how suited do you feel to do that? And more the bigger

question is you're 23. Is this what you want to be doing with your life? Uh if

not, we need to talk about that and how to offload this to the right person.

the the Okay. The the dilemma I'm in is is I like the work. I just don't like

the stress.

>> Okay. What's causing you the stress? The debt or the work?

>> The debt? The work. I'm I'm good at the work. I was working with my dad in high school. So, I'm I'm fine with the work.

I am involved. I was involved with it. I know inside and out. I know.

>> Okay. But let's go back a step. >> Inside and out. >> Let's go back. I I appreciate that. But let's go back a step. you at some point needed to borrow or you thought you did rather. Let me let me stipulate. You thought you needed to borrow $100,000 from family just to keep this thing afloat. We're not even talking about the initial $100,000. This company is not healthy. True or false?

Regardless of you being there and dad being there, somewhere along the line, this company started taking on water in the form of debt because you didn't have enough revenue. Am I right?

>> Yes, you are. That was partly due to my bad decisions, but it is true.

>> Well, there's part of this I have a just a log a technical question really. If you exit this business, if you say, you know what, I'm not suited for this. I'm going on. Will the will will will your

dad and family view the $200,000 as

money you personally need to pay back?

Or will they view it as that lives in the business and it's up to whoever or whatever goes on with the business to cover that? How will they view it? And how do you view it?

That's that's that what's what I was thinking is the 100,000 that's personal that's going to stay with me regardless >> even though it went to the business >> just cuz you raised it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. The other 100,000 if I were to you know sell the business or the other options that 100,000 the the vendor debt's going to stay with the company. >> See I disagree with that. If you show the receipt, if if you are able to show the receipts uh literally of how that

money was raised for the business, I don't think that that's uh the case. I don't think that that debt does follow you. You're running this business and that's how you raise money. >> Either way, either way, my friend, the only way out of the stress is a lot of hustle and I you're going to have to get somebody else that helps.

Dad, you have got to take this company on your back, learn from your mistakes, go get some advice from people in your world, and you're going to have to take a real shot at this to get this better. But if in about 3 to 6 months something doesn't turn around with your overactivity, then we're going to have to shut it down. You got to know when to hold them and know when to fold them.

Uh you should check it out. I think it's a great lyric because I think this is your situation. You got to make the decision sooner. You're going to keep digging deeper.

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[music] All

right, let's go to Diana in Las Vegas.

Diana, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Yes. I was wondering if um my

husband and I can afford to buy a new Model Y Tesla.

>> Okay. >> I like these questions. [laughter] walk us through the uh potential doubt.

What would be causing a lack of certainty?

>> Um my husband thinks um I'm being careless and not thinking about our retirement, but I think we have more than enough for retirement and I think we're oversaving. It's it's it's time for us to actually loosen up the belt a little bit and enjoy life.

>> I like the sound of that. Tell us how how much is your nest egg?

>> Okay, so right now we have over 1 million. is spread out between our 401, our Roth, um our brokerage account. Um we also have 11,000 emergency fund, uh

20,000 right now that uh that we already

saved up cuz we're planning to go to Europe to experience Christmas market this November. >> Nice. >> Um we don't have any debt except for our

mortgage. That's um we still owe 380,000.

>> The value of the home is 1.5.

>> Okay. So, we have we have lots of equity. >> And then um >> um and then right now and we still owe

um car car for we still owe about 15,000. We have another Model Y, but my

son um he's he's driving soon and I want

to give him the old Model Y and buy us a new Model Y. >> Gotcha. And when you said over 1 million, is it like 1.1 or is it like

1.8? like how much over 1 million?

>> Um one one point so 700,000 for pre-tax

401k we have 129 on our Roth. We have

200,000 on our brokerage and then 11,000

rainy day fund and the 20,000 for the

>> Okay, so here's where I'm at. Um I think you've done extremely well and I want you to hear that first and foremost. You guys have really set yourselves up. How old are you?

>> Oh, we're 47. >> 47. Excellent. Good job. Um, excellent.

Thank you. Uh, I think that you could be in a better position before purchasing this vehicle. How much does a Model Y cost? >> Uh, right now, um, it's only for it's 41

>> 41,000. >> And what's you guys' income?

>> Uh, 280. >> Okay. So, my biggest I mean, the glaring

thing here is why haven't you paid off the first Model Y? It's 15,000 for crying out loud. be because he he says

um because of the interest is low.

>> So what he wants to do is the money just putting you know just just maxing out

our our retirement and our Roth because

um right now the market is we get about 14 to like 18% returns. So

>> Diana, do you consider yourself Ramsay folk? Like are you are you >> Yes. Yes. I've been paying extra on my

mortgage like >> No. [laughter] Okay, >> take us back to the take us back to the show or the part in a Ramsay book where uh where we would be okay with you not paying off the car. I'm just curious.

>> Do you have a page number?

>> Or an episode number? [laughter] >> I should reread the book again. That's how we live by [laughter] no debt except for mortgage. But then >> spoiler alert, it's not in there. We're

playing. We're playing. We're we're we're uh we're being hard on you, Diana.

[laughter] >> No, I'm not. I'm having a blast.

>> Well, my husband tells me what he wants to do is the 20,000 that we saved up for traveling is pay off the Tesla, and we're not going to go traveling this year, but >> Okay, great. >> I've been saving. I've been saving for so long, working overtime to really go on that trip. >> Well, here's the thing.

I think you can do I think you can do both. Let me tell you how. I think you can do both. I think you have more money here than you think.

It's just how are we going to allocate it?

Okay, 20,000 saved cash over and above

your emergency fund. So yeah, let's say we take 15 of that. We pay off the first Model Y. Now we have 5,000 left and we keep that in our vacation fund. 5,000.

How, by the way, how much is the vacation going to cost total? [snorts] >> 15. >> Okay. So we got 10 more to save. Now tell me, what do you guys bring in every single month? Again, >> uh, take home 15,000.

15,000 a month. >> And when is the vacation? >> Yes, >> I'm planning November, Thanksgiving.

>> Okay. >> Got plenty of time to do that. Just out of your take home. >> How much is your mortgage payment?

>> Uh, including taxes, insurance, it's 2,900, but 35. Here's what it is. Here's I'm going to tell you what it is. You guys have a very loose budget.

>> And so the 15,000 it's going here, it's going there. It's, you know, you go out to eat, you do a little of this, a little of that. If you just got very intentional and said, "Okay, and that before November, we need to save up $10,000." Making 15,000 a month and the

only debt is your mortgage, which is 2,000, should not be a problem at all.

>> The Model Y, oh, if we paid off the Model Y, I see. Okay. >> And now when we start talking about the second Model Y, uh, I don't know, is that is that used or is that brand new?

The 41,000 uh, that you quoted, we we're

looking at brand new. Okay. What if you just said, "Hey, instead of us taking the hit on an EV, by the way, why not let somebody else take the hit and buy one that's slightly used?"

>> Sure. But I I'm looking at the tax uh the what do I call that? The tax deduction if you if you bought like no taxes on tax if you bought new cars made

in the USA. >> I don't even know. I'm going to be honest. I don't know what you just said, but all I'm thinking about is [laughter] how you're going to be able to have your vacation and your Model Y and not take a major hit on your used vehicle. That's what I'm thinking. Now, you can go back and do the math on whatever rebate it is that you're talking about, but in this position, I I would not advise you to

buy this car outright brand new in this position. >> No. And I think the vacation's more important to you, isn't it?

>> Yes. I like to build good memories with my children.

helping. >> Okay, now that's the mindset cuz I don't think you're going to listen to a word we said about financial advice to be completely honest with you. But if I can get through to you on this, then I feel like I got a win for you. So I think you got to go, wait a second, what's more important to me? Because I can't do all three because I think you and your husband are on different pages. Is that true or false?

>> Correct. I think since we hit our goal,

which which was one >> I think your husband's right. I think your husband's right about everything except for the fact that he doesn't think you guys can save up enough cash between now and November to cash flow the vacation. That's where he's wrong, but he's right on everything else. So, if I'm you and and life is short,

>> that vacation is going to be something that you will look back on the rest of your life. You will not look back on this new Model Y. No, you won't.

>> You just won't. >> Because listen, this and I mean this this is not a disrespect. Folks like you who love fancy technical cars that drive themselves, you get over cars like that because the newest model's out. Okay, >> guys like me, all I want are classic cars that no one can track and they smell a little bit more than every other car and you feel every second of the

road. I don't give two craps about an electric car. Never going to. It doesn't feel like a car. So, here's the deal.

you buy that car and don't go on vacation, you will regret that. But if you cash flow your vacation, pay off the Model Y, you won't have any regrets at all. Now, you may not believe me, but I'm right.

>> And that's the mindset. >> Then what about what about for a car that my my son will should be will be driving? >> I think I think you can cash flow after you pay it off. I think you can cash flow another vehicle, whether it's a Model Y or whatever, another used vehicle, >> but only secondary to funding that vacation because the vacation is where your heart is at.

>> I think in the next 12 months, you can do both. Let me put it like that. >> I think so, too. But vacation is the highest priority.

>> Yes, I really would like to go on Thanksgiving. >> So then you got to give up So you got to you got to get on Hubs's page then.

>> And this is where we compromise. And to Jade's point, you'll get your fancy electric car down the road.

>> And and let me also clarify because how old is the boy?

>> The son, >> um, he's turning 16.

>> Okay. Can I just tell you, you are the priority here, my friend. So, if you pay off the Model Y and it's not time for you to buy another one yet, guess who's driving it?

>> You. That's a great >> You are driving It's your car. He will be strong. >> I drove a Fred Fllynstone car when I was 16. [laughter] Like I had to stop the car with my own feet. >> I had to accelerate by digging in my heels in. This kid doesn't need a Model Y. >> The other thing [laughter] my my we I do have my old uh 2005 G35 Infiniti that my

husband would like to give to myself. It has over 160,000 cares. I drove a car

that had 275,000 m on it. It was such a piece of crap. same car I'm talking about. I could drive down the interstate and play tricks on my friends by pulling the key out of the ignition [laughter] while driving it. Please, he can handle

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[music]

All right, folks. If you're debtree, the live like no one else cruise is your chance to celebrate. hang out with us and Dave for new sessions on building wealth, live episodes of our shows, and the world's largest debt-free scream. I

remember when they did it last year was pretty wild. Um, and next thing I'm walking through the ship and I was trying to get to at least one of the areas and then there it is on the screen. Dave is up there with the captain, got the microphone, you know, he looked like he was in charge of the ship. >> Yeah. >> And uh, everybody screamed at once.

Really, really fun. Uh, and you can secure your cabin with a $600 deposit and join us in the Western Caribbean March 2027. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramiesolutions.com/events

to book your cabin today. All right, Jeff and Leonora are up in Pensacola,

Florida, and my screen tells me that you

amazing people are baby steps millionaires. Is this true?

>> That's very true. Wow.

>> Well, first of all, congratulations and welcome to the show. Thanks for being with us. >> Well, thank you. >> Thank you. >> We were actually on the show 10 years ago. >> No way. What? For Jeffrey Scream?

>> No. When uh we uh called it for the uh

millionaire. >> Okay. >> Uh deal. And I told Dave I was retiring that year and he said, "Well, call us back in 10 years and let us know how you've been doing." So, here we are 10 years later. >> Oh, wow. >> Well, that's fantastic. All right. Well, let's get some details here. What is what is your net worth?

>> Well, we'd like to say it's in excess of $2 million, sir. >> You like to say what does that mean?

>> Well, there may be a little bit more in there that's promised to our endowments and things like that that we don't really consider our money anymore.

>> Okay. >> A place to give it away. >> Okay. >> So, we uh we settled on $2 million in our minds as our money.

>> Got it. And what is the mix that creates the 2 million?

Um, we have about a million six in uh

mutual funds and 401ks and then uh then

the remainder in uh real estate.

>> Uh Jeff, I don't know what's going on with the phone here. Uh we're having a hard time understanding you. Your phone's kind of coming in and out.

>> Oh, >> all right. Well, um >> you need to speak closer. That's why >> there it is. Leonora is on top of it.

That's great. Uh >> so 1.6 Six in mutual funds and what is the other 400,000? The mortgage.

>> No, no, no. Real estate. We don't we don't carry mortgages. We don't carry any debt whatsoever.

>> Right. I mean the equity.

>> Oh gosh. I'm going to say half a million

dollars. Okay. >> In equity. >> Perfect. >> Fantastic. And uh >> what is your income or what was your income? Give us kind of your lowest income ever and then what you guys may have finished out at your highest income. Our lowest income ever was probably

uh 30 40,000

uh to 50. >> Okay. >> Um and it grew to an average between the

both of us of uh I'd say 150

>> um towards the end of our saving years.

>> Okay, great. And what did you guys do?

>> We're both medical professionals. I'm a trauma nurse and a paramedic. And my wife, Leodora, uh, she's a registered nurse. >> Okay. Wow. Great. >> You were an ER director for years as well. >> Oh, fantastic. Okay. And your ages right now? >> I'm 68. >> I'm 71. >> Okay, great. And any of this money inherited at all?

>> No. >> The [laughter] chuckle, the knowing chuckle that we asked, just so people realize, you can actually do this without inheriting money. Wow. Really

fun. Uh what would you say to young people uh who, you know, are just

getting started, maybe they're a young couple, maybe they're in in the medical profession, you know, and they they don't they wonder, is this possible?

What would you tell them they need to do to actually get where you guys are?

>> Well, I would say no amount is too small

to start saving and to clear all your

debt. Um my husband that was his his

clarion call, no debt. and um and he a

lot of that he he learned from uh Dave

Ramsey and uh and listening to him and

reading his books and we lived by that rule and um because we were we had lots

of debt when we were young when we were first married and uh very little very

little we hand-tomouth as they say

>> but uh we just struggled you make sacrifices but you have to have your eyes on the prize guys. And it wasn't always easy, but it's without fail, hard

work, determination, and commitment. Uh,

you can do anything. >> I love it. And we just saw an awesome picture of you two on a cruise ship.

>> Uh, so what is describe what life is like now on the other side of all that hardship and discipline that you talked about? >> Well, basically right now we we still survive just on our social security checks, believe it or not. >> Okay. But every once in a while we splurge and we've splurged to the tune of about five cruises this year.

>> That's awesome. >> Um I'm sorry.

>> I said that's incredible.

>> Yeah. Yeah. We've been to the South Pacific and Fiji and all all those

islands and places out there and Alaska and a number of different destinations

and um you know so we're just we we understand our mortality being our ages that we are. So, uh, we're going to spend a little bit of it. >> Well, we're so proud. You guys are heroes.

We're so proud of what you've accomplished. >> That's awesome. Jeff and Leonora, thank you so much. Uh, our baby steps millionaires today.

Thanks for sharing your story. I love it. And, uh, there's so many young couples that could aspire to that. And here's what I love about that, Jade.

You know, Leonor laid it out. There wasn't any fancy strategy, right? It was just gods and grandma's ways of handling money. The same theme that we've had uh on this show for decades.

So, thank you all again for sharing your story.

Let's go to Nick in San Francisco. Nick, how can we help?

>> I'm doing great. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's going on?

>> Uh, as you I live in California and as

you can imagine, uh, housing is extremely expensive here. And I was wondering if it makes sense to buy a rental property before buying like a

primary property.

Um, what would be the purpose of doing that first? Is it a size issue? Like, is it a rental is way smaller than what you need, but at least it gets you in the door? What's What's the play here?

>> I mean, my my thought process is I mean,

in my area, I'm looking at maybe 700,000, even more, to just buy a starter home when I was looking in other states to buy a rental home for, you know, much cheaper, much, much cheaper. and I was I

would be able to buy it outright and

I'm looking to make money off that.

>> What are you doing for a living right now? Just renting somewhere.

>> Um I live in a rental uh apartment

that's owned by my family and I pay about 600 a month plus utilities.

>> Do you have to live in your area or are

you able to work from anywhere? I have to live in my area. >> Okay. Why would you think about buying a house out of state and dealing with all that headache? >> Is it? Yeah. What do you think's going to happen? You're going to turn a quick profit? I I'm still trying to understand. >> No, I'm just looking I mean I'm just looking like in the long term to see if it's if it makes sense. I mean, I have money to buy a property.

>> How much? >> And it um I have three 300 to 350,000.

>> What do you make per year? I make 130,000. >> So, help me understand. You've got 350,000 to spend. Something in your area

would cost 700. So, you could essentially put half down. I'm still trying to make sense of what the outofstate rental property would do for you. I'm just sort of looking at the fact that I mean I mean I'm looking at the

fact that property taxes and insurance

are much cheaper there and I'm just looking to >> But would you are you moving but is it for an investment? No, you're not going to move. >> Not for an investment because I mean >> I would invest that reason >> I wouldn't buy a house. >> I wouldn't buy real estate in another state. If you're looking to earn quick

compounding interest, I would not invest in another property in another state. I would simply drop it in an S&P 500 index

fund and let it sit for the next 5 years. Agree. >> And keep adding to it, you know, and just kind of have a 5year horizon on this and before you know it, you'll have a $700,000 property.

Heat.

[music]

[music]

Heat.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey folks, have you heard about Ask Ramsay? if you haven't. It's our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And today we're going to break down some of the most asked questions from this week. There are some questions around life insurance. Uh but the most asked question was around retirement accounts rules and options for contributing to multiple types of accounts, IRA, 401ks, 403bs, TSPs, so

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ask your question at ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

So, there it is. Ask Ramsey. Just type it in and there it goes. Tony is up next in Houston, Texas. Tony, how can we help?

>> Hey, >> hi. Can you hear me? I can hear you loud and clear. What's going on?

>> Hey, happy Friday. So, uh I'm in a

situation where I've recently I recently

got a good well-paying job uh right out of college. Um but the my family has

some debts and they are asking me to pay

the debts for >> what? No. >> Goodness gracious. >> Hard pass. Oh, >> when you say you got a good job with good money, tell us what that exactly what that means. What are you doing and what do you earn?

>> Uh, okay. So, I'm a machine learning uh consultant for a telecommunication company. I'm earning uh 285k per year.

>> Um, >> how do they know that?

>> And they know that you told them that information. >> Oh boy, >> that was a >> to Jade's point. Jade make a great point here and you made this point earlier so I got to follow up. How soon did the ask or did the ask for the for you to help them with their debts come after you told them about this new gig or were they already pressuring you?

>> No, they were not. They were very supportive and I thought they would just be, you know, be like, "Yeah." >> So once they found out about the new raise, they said, "Help us."

>> Yeah. And dad has

three cars and he's asking me to pay all of them. >> And I hear fund your sister's college, too. I see that on the screen.

>> What? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Let me tell you what I would tell them.

>> You [laughter] You aren't making 285 million. >> I know. What's happen? >> 285 after taxes doesn't take care of those problems. >> Is this uh Can I ask straight up? Is this uh anything culturally related that

we need to know about or is this just people who are off their rocker?

Well, uh I am Asian. So,

>> is there an expectation for the sons to pay for the parents?

>> Um there's no expectation usually. I mean, I thought, you know, we would be >> just dealing with our debts and things like obviously like I'm open to helping them, but >> but there's there's nothing there is no tradition there that you feel like they are relying on that you no longer believe in. Do you see what I'm saying?

No, there's no tradition, no culture

thing. >> Okay. So, let me ask you a question, Tony. >> Why' you call us?

>> Because when I immediately said no, you

went [gasps] [sighs] >> So, we want to help.

>> Uhhuh. >> But why' you call? How can we help you?

The thing is I love my family and I I currently live with them. But the thing is this situation is and it it really is

taking a toll on my mental health at dinner at >> How can we help you? >> I think you got to move out. Tony, >> what's your question?

>> I kind of want to know your opinion. Do you would you if you were in my shoes, would you just >> I would Tony I would move out. You are

grown first off. Money aside, what you

make career aside, you're grown, so it's time to move out. That's thing one. >> And not pay them a nickel. >> And not pay them a nickel. And thing two, by you moving out and separating yourself from their expectations, you get to go home and eat a sandwich and

not ever think about this again. Versus being in their house like you said, every night at dinner, they're going to bring it up. In the morning, you know, when your mom sees you before you go to work, she's going to R. Do you see what I'm saying? So you're keeping yourself in that that guilt-ridden environment.

Take yourself out. Remove yourself from the conversation. >> Yeah. There is nothing else for us to say. You will resent your family. The

very family you love, you will resent >> if you capitulate to their manipulation.

Don't do it. >> It's it's it's going to burn the bridge though, I'm afraid. >> No, it's not. You you will not Here's the thing. I know. I just got very hot handed. very very quickly. You are not burning the bridge, Tony. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying I

went to school. I earned this income.

This is my life. There is nothing stopping sister from doing the same and mom and dad. It's never been my responsibility to pay off your mortgage.

>> Three cars. >> And I that's where I stand. That is the

the the barrier and the the boundary that I'm putting in place. I really hope you guys can understand that because that is perfectly logical and it makes perfect sense.

>> Period. >> Done. It it it and and if it burns the bridge, that's on them. Uh you can't do anything about this. Uh I feel for you, but only to a degree because I'm telling you, we see Jade and I are sitting in the enviable position of not having any emotion attached to this. That's right.

>> And our audience, we got people in the lobby. They're shaking their head. No, Tony. No. because we aren't attached to this and so none of us have the fear.

And I honestly think that the best thing you can do in a situation like this is call family members bluffs.

>> Yes. >> Call their bluff. And uh so move out today. Don't pay them a nickel. Tell them why. Tell them you're happy to guide them on on what they should be doing if they're willing to listen. Um but absolutely not. And and I'm sorry we got to cut it there. I love that you said go home. What kind of sandwich?

>> Uh for you know up on me.

>> I don't even know. See what? You're so fancy. What is that? Nobody in America knows what you're doing. >> Like a nice bun and there's like pork and like >> green boni. Anybody?

>> You guys know what that is? >> Bonme. >> Kelly does. B me.

>> And there's like like mayonnaise in there. A barbecue sandwich.

>> I don't know. It's Vietnamese. It's delicious. Or >> boy, I got to tell you, this is exciting. Now I'm glad I asked cuz now I have a new sandwich I need to try. >> Or you could do maybe he's eating a BLT, like just a bacon, lettuce, tomato.

>> Mhm. Well, you know why I asked? Because this is tough emotionally. I'm having a little fun, but I love how you kind of said go. And I actually think when you when you take a decision like this and take a stand, you need to emotionally eat. >> And I was 100%.

>> You know what my emotional go-to sandwich is? >> Tell me right now. >> PB&J. >> Oh, really? That's >> And I'm going to chase it with a glass of milk. >> Oh. >> Like I'm 10 years old. I know you hate milk, but I'm just saying. PB&J. Listen, [laughter] Stacy ain't coming anywhere near that mouth after peanut butter and milk. Get out of here. [laughter] >> What are you talking about? So

judgmental. >> I'm just looking out for Stacy in all of this. That's all. >> All right, America, [laughter] you guys can comment. What's your favorite emotional sandwich? Have you ever >> BLT? BLT. >> BLT. Kelly the producer. Let's get Kelly the producer in here. What's your go-to emotional sandwich? You've had a rough day and you're going to eat a sandwich to feel better. What is it?

>> Turkey with bacon for sure. Extra crispy.

>> Any condiments?

>> Homemade ranch. >> Oo, always with the homemade ranch.

Honorable mention, meatball sub.

>> Okay. Okay. I feel like that's pizza.

Uh, I'm not sure that's a sandwich. I think that's pizza. I think it's pizza.

>> Do you know what I mean? >> I'm just >> You don't think so? You think that meatball is a sandwich? >> I'm flabbergasted that you would not call a meatball sub a sandwich.

flabbergasted. >> I It's got the sauce. It's got the cheese. You're putting cheese on it.

>> Absolutely. Mozzarella provolone.

>> It's a meat pizza. It's It's all that is. >> Oh wow. >> You know what I mean? It's the same. It's got all the same ingredients. >> It's on a It's on a bun >> versus like a sandwich. I'll tell you what. I'm going to a Philly Philly cheese. >> Okay. Now listen. >> Now you're Now you're about some business. Yeah. >> PB&J. >> I need the Philly. You know what I mean?

>> Yeah. That's what I need. Need that need that protein, the extra cheese, some pepper. Mhm. >> Deal with all my emotions.

>> I like that. >> All right, there you go, folks. >> Emotional eating is what we're suggesting. >> This is what people come for. Great [laughter] life advice. And then a good conversation about a sandwich >> with a side of homemade ranch.

>> Way to go, Kelly.

>> [music]

[snorts]

[music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

Thank you for being with us. The phone number to jump in isle82552258

8255225.

Huntsville, Alabama is where Denise is waiting. Denise, how can we help?

>> Hey, thank you guys for taking my call.

I appreciate it. >> You bet.

>> Um, here's the here's the short of it.

I'm 54 years old. I've been a widow twice. >> Oh my god. >> And I have no retirement saved. Um,

and I my income does not does not um it

doesn't cover my expenses. Um, I I had

credit card debt and I got I ended up

having to call National Debt Recovery to turn those over to them and it wasn't even a lot of debt. It was just $10,000 that me and my past husband had incured um paying his medical bills. M

>> um so after he died, it left me with that debt and and I had one income instead of two. So >> sure, >> I went ahead [clears throat] and turned those over and and um I just recently

paid one of the smaller credit cards that I just refuse to turn over. I paid it off. Um I don't have a lot of debt,

but it doesn't I I'm just not able to

pay pay my bills and I've sewed

everything that I could sell that I can live without. >> Okay. >> Um I downsized. I got rid of the truck and downsized to an economical little

Mazda 3 that I drive to work. I work 45 minutes away. >> Okay. What do you make?

>> I make $16 an hour. So, I end up bringing home depending on the week I can it's anywhere from 1,500 to a,000.

>> Okay. >> Every two weeks. >> And um the little Mazda 3, is that paid

for? >> It is actually not paid for yet. I still owe like 2500 on it and I only bought it for 4,000. It's It's got 200,000 miles on it, but it's a decent good car.

>> What do you do for a living?

>> I am a front desk. Um [clears throat]

I take co-pays um collect I work for a doctor's office basically. >> Okay, gotcha. Okay. Can you walk us through your debt? The remaining debt you have go smallest to largest.

>> Smallest to largest. Um

smallest would be Can I just go down the list the way I have it wrote down? >> Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.

>> I'm sorry. The house is 800 a month and I still owe 124,000 on it.

>> Okay. >> Um I don't think I could rent cheaper.

The payments are $800 a month. I don't even think I could rent cheaper than that. You're doing good there.

>> The health insurance I go to have to go through the market and it's for me and my child. It's $50 a month.

>> Well, I don't need your monthly bills. I just want to know your debt.

>> Oh, my debt. I'm sorry.

>> Okay, that's all that's all fine. What I have left in debt is the car, which is right at 2500. Okay.

>> And I already got rid of the credit card, the other credit card, but then I have that 10,000 that I've turned over to National Debt Recovery.

>> Okay. That's actively being they're actively covering that.

>> Yeah, they take a 100. They just started after Thanksgiving last year. They start they take 150 out of every paycheck for 29 months.

>> Oh boy. Can you Can you get out of that?

What's the penalty for counseling that?

I'm actually not sure. >> I want you to check into that. Um, okay.

>> It you you might be on the hook for some fees, but all they're going to do is stack those $150 payments off to the side and they're going to let this default and then they're going to try to make a deal. That's what they're going to do. And that's honestly something that you could do yourself if you chose to do. But I don't know that you need to do that just yet.

That's going to tank your credit. It's going to >> it it's not good. And uh like I said, there's usually uh a good amount of fees attached to that. So, I would if you can get out of that and it's it's reasonable.

I don't know how much you've already paid in, but I would get out of that um pretty much immediately. So, after the car, the 2500 and after this 10,000, is there anything left? Is there any other debt? >> No.

N >> Okay. So, the good news is the good news is your mortgage is awesome. The $800 a month, you're right. You can't rent cheaper than that. Uh, and the good news is you've got $12,500 of debt, which

under the circumstances, I don't know why I was expecting, but I thought it was going to be a lot more. Now, the problem is, uh, if you have a month-to-month income issue and there's no margin, that $12,500 of debt feels

like a mountain just because you're struggling to eat, right?

>> Yeah. I want you to So, let's dive in with Jade. Jade's the budget queen. Give us where do you think uh you're spending

too much money?

That's just it. And I don't know. I've went through >> Let's look at it. You make 3,000 a month, give or take, right?

>> Yes. Right. Less than that, actually.

It's more like And I And I work two jobs. So, it's more like I mean, second job. It's about 2500

a month. >> Then it's an income crisis is what you have cuz no matter what you do, that 2500 is not going to feel like enough.

It's >> It's very hard to live on.

>> You're working two jobs. I only heard the one job at 16 an hour.

>> I do the 16 an hour. And then the same company, they asked me if I would clean their office for $120 every Friday.

>> Okay. So, I do that. >> That's after hours. That's the second job. >> Yes. >> But none of them are 40 hours a week.

>> Um the the $16 an hour job is 40 hours a

week and they let me work over all the time to try to help me.

>> Well, that's good news. I mean, I feel like all I do is work. I go in at 8 and I don't get home till 6. >> I know.

But I think we need to get you a higher hourly. That's the problem. >> I do. I think that's the transition.

But I also I believe if you'll let Jade walk you through this here for a couple minutes, a lot of detail. I I got to believe there's there's there's some budgeting issues going on. >> Let's try to find it. So, after let's say you making 2500 after the 800, that leaves you with 1,700.

Then you said for each you and your your daughter, did you say it's 50 bucks a month for health insurance? Yep.

>> It's It's Yeah. $50 a month. Both of us both of us are in there for 50 25 a person. >> Oh, okay. So, that takes us down to uh

1,600 or 1,650. What next? What else?

>> Um water is 35.

>> Uh-huh. What else? >> Electric's 180. >> Okay. >> Progressive car insurance is 100.

>> Okay. Um, I have a one of them Gerber

um, life insuranceances that my mother got on me that if I pass away, it gives my child $10,000 to bury me. It's $7 a

month. >> Okay, we're going to cancel that immediately, but it's seven bucks. Okay, what else? >> And then, um, of course, now I have the new national debt relief of 150 coming out of every >> paycheck. Okay, fine. What else?

>> Cell phones are 90.

>> Okay. Do you do like a consumer cellular or who are you with?

>> We're with Cricket. Okay, good. Next.

>> That's just for two phones.

>> Um, internet's 90.

>> Mhm. >> And then I have a life insurance that I that since both husbands passed away and left me with nothing, I couldn't even hardly bury them. I didn't want to leave my child like that. So, I took out a life insurance plan of 250,000

>> and I paid six for me.

>> Is it Is it term life? Did you do it through Xander? >> Yes, I did it through Shield.

>> Okay. I want you I want you to call up Xander and check it through with them and make sure it's the best possible option. If not, you might be able to pay a little less cuz you said you're paying 248 a month or a quarter.

>> I pay $69 every three months.

>> Okay. Okay. Um >> $250 for a year. >> Okay. >> We got We got about 40 seconds >> right now. I'm I'm seeing you with 900 extra dollars. So, what are you spending on food? >> We don't I'm honest. I We

>> You spend something. If I have a little bit left over, we we spend about 110. If we have anything left over, I'll >> So that leaves me that leaves me on my checklist here. That means you got $830 some odd dollars to spare.

We're going to give you every dollar and you're going to plug this in and you're going to do just what I walked through with you. Every single item, that money is draining somewhere and you don't have the margin for any drains right now. Uh and I believe that you do need to find something that's going to pay you in high a higher hourly rate than $16 an hour. That is where your primary struggle is.

[music]

[music]

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Store or Google Play. Riley is up in

Chicago. Riley, how can we help?

>> Hi, thank you for uh having me on the show. Uh I'm 28, my wife is 32. We've

been married for five months now. Um, we're moving. We currently have about $100,000 equity in our current home and kind of wondering what we should do with that equity, whether we should just roll it into the next house. Um, pay off debt and then use the remainder as a down payment or pay off debt and then uh do some remodeling on our new home.

>> Oh, I love this idea. So, 100,000 in equity. How much debt do you guys have?

>> Um, so I I currently have no debt. I'm 100% debtree. Um, my wife has about

$70,000. Uh, she has a car loan uh for

$10,000, a personal loan that she got uh to remodel the house that we're currently in, and that's for $10,000 and then about $50,000 in student loans.

>> Okay. Okay. So, yeah, I like the idea of

since you guys happen to be moving, you have this equity and you are newlywood, so it's really a fresh start. I like the idea of taking that 100,000, taking 70 of it uh to pay off uh the existing debt between the two of you and then what I would do with the 30,000 is I'd say how much of this 30

constitutes a 3 to 6 months of expenses for us.

>> What would you say?

>> Um well with the new house and everything it would probably be close to 10 to 12,000 probably.

>> Okay. So we'll say maybe half to be fair. >> And so that leaves you with 15,000. Now, the question is, does that leave you with enough of a down payment for a new house or what would you do?

>> So, yeah. So, I have uh we have 80,000

cash in the bank that we're going to use uh for a down payment already.

>> Okay. So, you could add the other 15 with that cash and have 95.

>> Yep. >> Okay. It does. Now, if you put the 95 down, does that get you where you want to be mortgage payment wise?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, we're going to do a 15-year mortgage, and that gets us, it's like, I think when I did the math, like 27% of our monthly income would be our mortgage, and that would be everything in um escrow, property taxes, all that.

>> I love that. 20 I'm Okay, I'm not going to split hairs on that. I love that for you guys. And then, uh how quickly could you then I mean, it sounds like there might be work to do on this house because you mentioned renovations.

>> Yeah, we kind of just want to do a kitchen remodel on the house and then everything else is we can kind of just do as we go. Um, but the house is moving

ready right now. >> How quickly could you save up to do that rena uh in cash?

>> Probably a year. Um, I have overtime opportunities at work, so it's easy for me to come up with extra cash if I need it. >> Listen, you are a very analytical, very logical. This is easy. This is the easiest call I've had all day.

[laughter] >> Thank you.

>> There's no argument. Love it.

>> I do have a question though. The way you worded things, are do you two have separate finances? It doesn't sound like it, but the way you said it earlier, it did sound like it. >> Yes.

And no, like we're kind we're slowly combining our finances. Um I guess the way we have it set up now is out of our paycheck, we put, you know, a certain amount into a shared account and then all of our household income, vacations, food, every all of our living expenses comes out of that. And then we have our separate money for, you know, if I want to buy a toy or whatever, you know, like a a four-wheeler, snowmobile, something like that, or if she wants to go do her hair, whatever it is, then she >> can select, can I suggest a tweak to that?

>> Yep. >> Where you guys still have that personal autonomy. What if you put what if you put all the money in one account? Um, all of it.

amounts of money for you to spend how you want and equal amounts of money for her to spend how she wants.

>> Okay. The Yeah. So I mean, yeah, basically the same just a little bit.

>> Yeah. It's just creating it's creating um >> I don't know if you've how long you've listened to the show, but I can tell you just today we've had two calls where because the the spouses they had separate accounts. It kind of created this feeling uh it created this feeling

that I can kind of do what I want over here and I don't have to tell my spouse and over time things were done that felt like it was crossing the line for the other spouse. >> So what I can see that do you know what I mean? So, putting it in one account says, "Hey, this really is our money." And I know, and I'm just making up numbers here, and I know that I have $500 out of that that I spend on what I want, and she has $500 out of that that she spends on what she wants.

And then from there on now, you've created transparency.

Every once in a while, it just comes up and he's like, "Oh, I bought this new thing." And I'm like, "Oh, great." And I the assumption is and I know oh that's what he spent his money on. But do you see what I'm saying there?

>> Yeah. It makes it more of Yeah. Instead of it makes it more of our money. The whole pot.

There you go. >> This is the easiest call. Your wife.

Wonderful. She [laughter] No arguments. This is great.

>> And and yeah. And Riley, you guys got it together. But just to really put a put a pin in all this. the hour. There's a

real powerful emotion of unity when we

talk about hour and and and by the way, the data bears it out. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> You know what I mean? So, don't I don't need to get on a pulpit on that one today. Evan is up in Rono, Virginia. I

know where that is. Evan, how can we help? >> Hey, thanks for taking my call. You guys are my favorite. When you guys are together, it's one of my favorite com combinations. So, >> that's very nice. We just high-fived Evan in honor of you. Thank you very much. [laughter] >> So I um we're in FPU uh week number

five. Uh >> wow.

>> Did you cut out Evan?

Uh oh. I think our high five slapped him

silly. [laughter] >> Okay, we'll we'll see if we can get Evan back. Uh in the meantime, let's go to Robert in Daytona, Florida. Robert, how can we help?

>> Hey, um how you doing? How's >> life? Uh you know what? We're having a blast. What's going on with you today?

>> So, um, I have a a little bit of a strange little question here and a career change. I'm kind of curious as to how to transfer careers. I'm kind of on

the top of my career right now. So, I'm making the most amount of money that I can right now, but if I'll be switching to the second career, I'll be staying all the way down on the bottom. Um, I'm

making about 125 right now.

>> Mhm. >> My wife is making about 35.

If I switch careers, I'm I'm going to be

dropped to about $25,000 a year.

>> Doing what?

[sighs and gasps] >> Um, well, I'm I'm I'm a mechanic right now and I'm looking at flight instruction. Um, I'm going into aviation. >> Okay. Well, could you even do that? Is it even possible? Have you set your life up to where you can take that big of a hit?

>> I spent $65,000 worth on training so far. >> I didn't ask you that. I asked you because I understand I've taken this call many many times um cuz [snorts] pilot the schooling is outrageous and

they can just charge through the absolute teeth on this. So, is there not a way to be more patient and save save

so that we're we're not taking a big hit here? Because dropping from 135 to 25.

The question I have, we have a limited time. Is your life set up to where you can take that big of a hit, a $100,000 hit, and not be starving? Yes or no?

>> Um, well, that's kind of why I'm calling. Um, I have about we have we have about 20,000 in savings.

>> That's not enough. and we have about

15,000 in like investments and stuff.

>> That's not enough. >> What matters is your monthtomonth. If you can eat every month on what you bring home >> between me and my wife is going to be really, really close. >> I mean, you're going to be down to 55,000. So, what you need to do tonight is a mock budget. So, what is that going to look like? 3700

a month. >> About 32. >> How tall is the program?

Uh, it's the I'm I'm already old taught

and everything. Um, I I I have enough hours to start my career. >> Okay. Well, how long then will you be making 25,000?

>> It's a very good question. A year, two.

>> You better get the answer to that. And then you do what Jade's talking about.

This is all about numbers meeting up with calendars. So, if I'm going to make that for one to two years, I need to know, is that the gospel truth? What is the range? One year, two year, it could be anywhere in there. Okay, great. Now, that's 25,000. So, how much money do we have to save up before I take that role?

And you may have to press pause, Robert.

This sucks. I have to press pause of going into that until we have the money saved up to make up the difference. That will determine whether or not you can do it. Do I have the cash to make up for the shortfall? Really simple. Starts with a budget first.

>> [music]

[music]

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[music]

All right. We've got on the debtree stage in the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions, Alvaro. Did I say that right?

>> Absolutely. >> Fantastic. Welcome. And you're here to do your debtree scream. I guess >> I am. >> All right. Let's go. Let's get the details. All right. How much debt? It was $90,493.

>> Okay. And how long? >> Took 20 months. >> 20 months. Okay. And what was the range of income? >> I started at 73,000 and currently I'm at 92,000. >> Way to go. >> What What uh led to that?

>> I was an occupational therapist and I I

did a lot of side hustles in this in the meantime. I tutored, repaired glass for phones, uh dog walked. You name it, I did it. >> Love that. >> What kind of debt was it? >> All student loans. >> Hey. Okay. Okay. Very fun. Uh, okay. So,

what happened 20 months ago?

>> I graduated from grad school and I saw the bill and I started seeing how much interest was going to acrue >> and I did the calculations and in interest, if I did the 20-year plan, it was going to be $75,000 extra on top of the student loans. So, essentially, they would have doubled, >> right? >> So, I was like, I can't do that. And during this time it was I was having no

interest acred. So I was like I got to go at it. I got to go ham.

>> So I made a deal with my parents and I asked them hey can I live at home for a year? You guys don't charge me rent but after that you can charge me double rent of whatever you wanted so I can aggressively go at this. So they helped me through this journey >> and then after that they saw how aggressively I was going at it that I wasn't going out. I was doing what I needed to and they're like, "We're going to let you finish off your student loans." They dropped the double rent.

>> They did. >> Nice. >> Just the 20 months. >> That's great. Parents, >> so okay. Uh, give us an average or if you know the exact amount of what you were paying monthly to get there. 90K in 20 months. I can do an average, but I wonder was it was it that clean? Were there certain months over the 20 months where you were able to put more? What did it end up looking like each month paying off debt? >> It was about 5,000 a month. 5,000 plus.

And what was your takehome?

>> It wasn't much. It was like 55 5600.

>> Wow. >> Um, and those were basic things of like I'm going to help with the groceries. I'm going to get gas. I'm >> The biggest goal was my side hustle was to pay like the principal.

But then after that, my main job was really just get after it cuz I knew that was the biggest way. >> I love this. This right here is a a gleaming example of when it makes sense and how to do the I'mma live at home for a little while to get this debt paid off. Excellent.

Well done. Wow. So, what was the hardest part? I mean, obviously, you're seeing your money go out the door and you're living at mom's house.

What else was hard?

>> Saying no to a lot of things I wanted to do that in the moment I was like, I'm looking at the future. I'm looking to see what I can accomplish later because right now it does stink. But in the future, I know it's going to be so worth it and it has been. >> So, the keeping understanding the logical part, yeah, you know what I have to I got to s but keeping the promise to yourself is the hardest part.

>> Absolutely. >> Wow. So, here's my thing. I have uh you know I'm on social media. I hear people talking all the time and when you mention paying off student loans, the automatic mindset is that's impossible.

I want you to talk cuz how old are you?

>> 30. >> 30. I want you to talk to the 27year-old, the 30-year-old who just finished grad school, just finished undergrad and is like, "Yeah, I'm just going to kick the can down the road forever. I haven't even calculated the interest. >> They just need to do it. It's it's a mindset. It's a mentality. And it really does spread into every aspect of life.

Your work, um the way you decide to go about having friends, like those intentional relationships and those intentional things that you choose to do in life, they carry on. So that's why this was so important to me because I knew that if I can be dedicated as I have been in the gym or in my nutrition or whatever aspect that might be, it carries out into being just a better person and you being able to portray that in your personality and whatever encounters you have. >> Oh, you you have figured out you have unlocked something so important.

You have figured out that discipline begets discipline and so >> absolutely. Yes.

Different seasons of life definitely led me that way as I was growing up being an athlete and then I got to school, stopped doing that for a little bit, but then I found that purpose and once you find that purpose and you know what you're looking for and what you want to be, there's no stopping you.

>> That's right. >> At what point after you're paying 5,000 a month, does this go from being I can't believe I'm doing this to look at what I'm doing. Did was there an emotional shift if you understand what I'm asking?

>> Oh yeah. Uh it's really like a countdown cuz I started with 90,000. So it was like I start at 9 and then we get to 8 7 6 all the way down and once we get to that final zero and you're just on the bare minimum thousands. It's like it's coming. It's going. >> I love I love everything about this.

Yeah. >> I I do. >> So 30 years of age. Okay. And now you're on the other side of this. >> Yeah. >> How has it changed your perspective looking forward because you're a young man. >> Yeah. Uh, it's a great feeling because I

bought my Beyonce's ring, paid if it were in cash. >> Oh, we see it over there. Okay, hold it up there so we can get There we go. Oh, >> I need some sunglasses.

[laughter] >> And then on top of that, it's just like I have no fear. Like, Ken, thank you so much for just what you do because because of you, I was able to leave a toxic work environment and just feel proud of being able to work and do what I do and have passion behind it.

>> I love it. >> She said with Dave weird is being independent in a culture that teaches you to be dependent. And that hit me because it it really does. And when you're debtree, independent knowing that, hey, I need a day off tomorrow and I can take that there's no greater feeling and no greater power knowing that you did that to yourself and you can do that. >> Yeah. Autonomy. I am I'm overwhelmed. uh

you've done such a fantastic job and you dropped a you dropped a major key. I don't know if people were listening cuz you know people are going to listen to this and be inspired by what you're saying. There is uh a great motivation tactic that you shared which is when you have an even like a a a nice countable number like 5,000 or 10,000, right? It

makes it easier to see that number go down in a pattern that is motivating to us. So little major key there. I'm proud of you. What happens next?

>> Life. Um, I started my own business for

occupational therapy. I'm a mobile practice. So, just growing out being able to give people the treatments that they desperately need and not having to rely on insurance or anything along those lines because I want to give people the opportunity to live their life and be able to regain all functions. >> All right, hold on. Let's not that if I heard you. >> So, are you doing a like old school like

cash for your business? No insurance filing at all? >> That's the goal. But, you know, there's stipulations and everything, but that's my goal. >> Yeah. And and is that you're basically, okay, this gets you this, and you kind of lay it out like a menu so people know >> I got to say I I just I don't want to go on a rabbit trail, but this to me is the future of personal medicine. >> 100%. I think it should be, but I

digress. It's But I'm proud of you starting your own business. Okay. So, obviously your lovely fiance is here.

Who else alongside her walked through this with you and were your biggest fans? Honestly, it was a lot of self. It was a journey by myself for the most part. There's not a lot of people that really helped me, but there's a lot of wisdom that was passed on from because when I first got out, it was I always asked like, "What did you guys follow?

How do I do this?" And it was always the older generation that helped me and said, "Hey, listen to this, listen to this guy." And it just helped.

>> It helped tremendous. >> Moral of the story, hang around older people. >> I was just thinking the same thing. [laughter] It's good to be old. >> That's awesome. All right, this is fun.

Are you ready? >> Yeah. >> Okay, here we go. Well, we got Alvaro from Dallas, Texas. He paid off 90,000 plus in 20 months, making from 73,000

all the way up to 92,000 and all those other jobs. Alvaro, it's your moment.

Let's hear your debtree scream.

>> Thank you, Lord. I'm debtree.

>> There it is. >> You didn't even need a countdown. >> No countdown. Just a [applause] thank you, Lord, which I prefer. Kind of like that. >> Put his own stamp on it.

>> I'm going to go out on a limb. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's one of the goats of debtree screams.

[applause] >> That's That's a goat. That's a goat right there. >> That's a fun game for our hardcore Ramsay fans. Like, do they have their top five debtree screams?

>> You're saying it's in the top five.

>> Yes, because a he's young.

>> Okay. >> Uh two, he he figured out uh the the

whole live at home thing and did it flawlessly. >> Uh number two, he started a business of

his own. Number three, he understood a major principle which is it's not just about paying off the debt. It's about when you have discipline and when you have freedom in one area of your life and you've mastered it, you have to let it go into the other areas. You don't just get thin and get your body right.

Now you do that in your spiritual life and now you do it in your marriage and now you do it with your money. He understands that. You can't stop Alvaro.

I'm telling you that right now. >> I got to tell you, pal, you got my co-host fired up. She can run through a wall right now. I better go open the door. We're going to go out and see him and celebrate with him.

[music]

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[music] Let's see if I can finish the show without unplugging myself. Our

[music]

scripture of the day comes from Psalm 20:4. Let God grant what is in your heart and fulfill all your plans.

[music] Our quote today from John Maxwell. The reality is that you will never get much done unless you go ahead and do it before you are ready.

>> All righty then. >> There's a word. >> It is. >> All right. Evan, we got him back hopefully in Rono. Evan, do we have you

>> here? >> I'm here. Thank you guys for taking me my call again. >> Hey, [laughter] it's okay. We were worried about you, man. We didn't know what happened. So, we're glad to have you back. >> My wife My wife pulled in the driveway and and the Bluetooth picked up in her car. >> Oh, no. Classic, >> dude. That happens to me all the time.

Yeah, I It's really irritating. All right. Uh what's going on?

>> So, we are in FPU um week number five.

So, we just started, you know, going through the uh, you know, um, but we are on baby step two and I have a question

about possibly do we need to go back to baby step one and re-evaluate it because, um, as a backstory, we have two

small businesses that we run. Um, I do a cabinet business and she does horseback riding lessons. We have, um, 15 acres and 11 horses. and um our income last

year after after all expenses was 130.

And we have $1,000 set aside, but my

question is given that something could

come up with a horse that would be, you know, possibly $10,000 if a for a vet

bill, what [snorts] what should we hold

in reserve for that for for emergencies

like that in this situation? Well, there's first you need to separate it from your personal monies. So, if these are two separate businesses, there's got to be um a line item in her business budget that when she brings her revenues in, some of her expenses, some of some

of her money goes toward creating uh

retained earnings or like a stockpile of cash, basically an emergency fund for her business. So that's going to be something she needs to build in that's reasonable to the work that she does and that's something that you need to build into yours as well. And that happens before you guys take your payrolls.

>> Does that make sense? So it's not going to be part of your normal every dollar budget. That's going to be part of her business building over here to the side.

>> Okay. Um so so personally we should just

keep keep it at a thousand personally and then >> and [snorts] then on the business side like realistically you know

how how much should following these principles because obviously you know we're my business is about 18 months old and hers is like three or four years old. So she's in the she uh my my

portion of it was 85 last year and she was at 49. Um, and so as far as like

operating under the under Ramsey principles, how much should we hold in reserve for our businesses? And because, you know, we're paying ourselves the profits and so

>> I understand what you're saying in reserve on those business. >> I would probably say somewhere around 3 to 6 months of operating expenses for you both is what I'd be looking to do.

Now, for her, she's going to have to figure out what that is. I'm not sure that she has an accurate picture based on the fact that there's no earn like there's nothing held aside. I don't think you guys have an accurate picture of what uh salary you can actually pull

because that's a that's a significant amount of money that needs to be budgeted for every single month out of her budget. Does that make sense?

>> It does. And we do have separate like the the every every you know we have a personal and then two business accounts.

And her her gross last year you know just because the overhead on horses is a lot. So her gross was 226 >> and her net was was 49.

>> Um my gross was Yeah. My gross was was

210 and my um net was 84.

>> Yeah. Um I mean I I think just the nature of the business that she does cuz it's live animals and it's horses specifically. I mean, I think that's always going to be the case that her spend is going to be higher. But my point is, I think this can continue to go, but the biggest takeaway for you is to go, okay, the the money for her

business overhead is not coming out of our personal budget. It's coming out of her the P&L for her business. Does that make sense? >> It does. And so I guess do we put step,

you know, because we have a plan that right now our plan to pay off the debt is going to take 27 months.

>> Okay. Um, and so $70,000 in debt in 27

months. Um, >> what this means is, yeah, that's going to take longer. >> If you want to get these businesses in a stable position, it means your personal debt's going to take longer, which means you're probably going to have to do some things on the side to bring in extra money to account for that, >> right? Okay.

>> I mean, Ken, am I am I missing anything?

>> I agree. Your advice has been great. I I will only add this mental thing. You you were touching on it just here. Jay gave you great advice.

It's super important that you don't let the intensity, and I love that you're in week five of FPU, right? So, you're in it. It's like training camp, you know, and you're just walking through it and you're fired up. Don't let that intensity um put you in a situation where you don't shore up your businesses. You're prime that is your income.

>> And and Jade really was all over that.

And I would just say make sure you go I got to make sure that I've got those retained earnings set up in my businesses plural >> and if that makes my debt pay off a little longer >> it's okay >> it's okay but then I'm going to make up for it as Jade is saying so the mindset is let's not hurry at the expense of

like gazelle intensity does not mean gazelle foolishness >> good >> right >> and I think that thank thank you I'm getting I'm this is very exciting it's rare that I get is. So I I that would be my word for you is I love the intensity, but let's shore up everything else

>> and and and and then we we deal with it as it comes as if as far as the payoff date. Okay.

>> So the fact you guys got these businesses, you want to just keep those things stable >> because if you don't and something happens, >> now you're up a creek. >> Now you're in big trouble. Yeah.

>> And we're also blowing up our timeline.

So, it's not about the timeline, it's about how we finish across the line.

>> So, appreciate the call. You're a sharp young man. You guys seem like you're doing great. We'll get Kelsey in real quick. Kelsey, how can we help?

>> Hello. I like that Gazelle quote. I wish I could write it down, but I'm going to remember that. >> I'll tell you it again. Oh, you you already got it. Okay, gotcha. Very good.

All right, go ahead. We got about two and a half minutes. We'd love to help you. What's the question?

>> Okay. Um, in regards to prenuptual agreements, I've been listening to you all for less than a year, and I know that you all don't recommend one unless you have big financial disparity, which can protect me or us from cousin

Eddie's. My boyfriend and I plan to get married. It'll be our second marriage.

But I wanted to see what your thoughts are on prenups. There is no big

financial disparity between us, but we have cousin Eddies.

>> What do you mean? Be more specific. What are these cousins or who are I mean, what are we talking about?

>> Like, so I'm I guess I imagine cousin Eddies as being um the the the ones who

are looking for money in from family members. And >> yes, >> and this is not a metaphor. You're telling me you've identified some family members on his side that you think will come asking for money?

>> Yes. And and they they have before.

>> Will he agree with them? Will your spouse agree with the cousin Eddie?

>> No. >> Okay. >> Well, you don't need a prenup for that. >> Yeah. >> You need boundaries. >> That's just you and your husband having the Yes, Ken. You and your husband saying we're not going to loan money to these people.

>> Okay. [laughter] >> Yeah, >> that works. >> Yeah, but I mean >> Oh, yeah. No, he would be on top. He'd be all for that. So >> Oh, he Okay. Yeah. Perfect.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh boy, that is interesting. And good on you, by the way, of identifying that and bringing it up to him. And so, yeah, complete same page. If we're on the same page that no matter who it is, because we took a call earlier today, >> a young man gets a massive job.

>> Yes. >> $285,000 salary. Tony >> tells his mom and dad >> as one would do and they immediately [laughter] asked him to help pay off debt, pay for his sister's college. So, you know, Jade and Jade, before we took the call, Jade touched on this. He was like, I wouldn't be telling family about all these income things. So, u it's very interesting.

We've seen this today. I love that you guys have figured this out. But yeah, uh make sure the husband is absolutely in lock step and we don't share any financial information with any of these folks. So, I feel like there's a southern phrase for that. That opportunistic. You always have a southern phrase like a like a vulture on a on a jack rabbit. I [laughter] don't know. Something silly.

>> I love that you gave that a shot. No one in the history of radio or [laughter] podcasting or YouTube has ever said that. >> Coined that phrase. >> So, I think you've done something great, Kelsey. Thank you so much. I think you've got a lot of wisdom. No prenup here. Uh just great communication and a

fabulous word to learn.

Know and that will work. Hey, remember everybody, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 70. Focus On What You Can Control And Start Crushing Debt | March 16, 2026


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:40:59 |

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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broken, common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you [music] transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey show. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Kamel. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us. We get it started off right now with Mary in Dallas, Texas. Mary, how can we [music] help?

Hey, thank you for having me. Um so, I I've been stuck in kind of like a situation where I really I'm newly married and um I don't believe in debt. And I really love what you guys preach. I'm trying to get my husband on board. He has when we got married, he has like over 35, 40K in

debt. And that's okay. So, I was trying

to encourage him to get out of debt.

Use my salary to use my salary to pay

his debt, but he currently lost his job in last year. And he has no motivation in trying to find a new job. So, I'm always trying to like my money all I do is just pay bills, mortgage, and by the time I'm done paying, there's nothing left. So, it just feels like I'm never getting ahead.

Wow. So sorry, Mary. I mean, I can think of one way to stay motivated. Maybe providing for your new wife. Is that not on his radar?

Providing for his new wife? You.

You said you just got married to this guy. He doesn't have a job. You're struggling to pay bills and you say he has no motivation to work.

Yeah, he lost his job. So, his excuse is like, "Oh, I can't he >> fired? What happened? Is he Is he in a depressive state because of this?

Yeah, he got fired and he's he's kind of like really much he's kind of really confident that I'll I'll get a new job and he only applied like one job in a month and it's been 6 months now and

really like no motivation at all.

If he he gets out of his 401k to pay some of the bills like to pay some of his debt. He took a withdrawal from his 401k?

Mhm. To pay bills? And cover his debt payments? Yes, cuz my my salary can't pay all his debt. Oh my goodness.

>> only cover my salary can only cover mortgage and the house bills, not his debt. Well, the challenge is is there's there's really no answer. We can't give you a step one, step two, step three on this.

I really can't.

Um this has to be a very very serious

um marriage conversation. Have you confronted him about this to say, "Hey, I I don't think this is sustainable. We can't keep doing this. My My salary is not enough to take care of all of this.

We're falling behind. I feel like you're not uh applying for enough jobs." What's his response? I haven't. He's from encouraged him to like to even just take any stupid job like to just pay bills, but his pride will not let him to take anything. He's just like until I get something that is comfortable for me. Yeah, but I do Okay, I Okay, I appreciate that.

Uh and you've identified that it is pride. I assume that he's calling it pride as well?

No, he doesn't know where like he he still does he he still thinks he's always I don't know >> Have you shared how uncomfortable and how afraid you are?

Yeah, and he sees me cry when it comes

to bills, when it comes to his dad.

>> I'm sorry. What does he do when he sees you cry? He just says, "I'm sorry." I'm sorry and that's it.

Yikes. You know, again, I uh >> [sighs] >> I I I There's nothing that we can say here. I mean, this is a you have to tell him that you If you can't help us,

then is there an us?

You know, I mean, it's that serious.

This This guy is just kind of waving

uh at every day, kind of going, "Well, I'll just do this and hope it works out." And there's just no urgency and it puts you in a very tough position. And um I don't I don't have some magical answer. George, I don't know what your thoughts are here. This is very, very frustrating for you. >> Yeah. I Well, I I do think you need to make it more clear how serious this is.

And it sounds like he's disassociating, is what we call it. When he's just going, "Well, I'm just kind of sort of numb out because I don't have the willpower to do anything about it."

Is that what's happening here? Because you got married to this guy because you wanted the companionship, because life is better doing it with someone else, right? >> Yeah, I even I see I see some jobs and send him send them his way. Like, everybody's trying to give him leads about jobs, but it's just the motivation for him. >> What was he doing for work? And what was he making?

He was making 130. He was an engineer.

Engineer making 130, and he's been applying for engineering jobs or he applied for one?

He's applied for engineering jobs.

And why did he get fired?

Uh they said he threatened his boss.

He threatened his boss?

Mhm. Okay. So, how long have you been married to this guy?

2 years.

Yeah, I mean, I think you have to get his attention and go, "We We got to talk about our marriage.

I've already brought up all of money stuff to you, and you're not doing anything about it. And you're [snorts] not in a good place. You were in a bad place. You're in a bad place if you threaten your boss.

Can we agree you're in a bad place?

Yeah, he still doesn't believe he still doesn't agree that he still thinks it was unfair that he was let go. Well, there's a lack of ownership all over the place with this guy. Is that the case throughout your marriage? >> Yeah.

It's never his fault. It's always someone else's fault. You got to take care of you right now. I I think I think this is a legit conversation about separation to get his to get his attention.

Uh but I would Yeah. I would give that a try and get a therapist in the room with you, too. You got to try that. But I I I

wouldn't keep letting this guy just put all the pressure on you and show no desire at all to help out. Uh

so, you know, at this point, how can you make more money?

And uh you be in control of the finances so this guy can't wreck you anymore.

>> Yeah, I wouldn't be concerned about his debt. Right now, it's about covering the four walls and protecting yourself. So, the first thing you cover is going to be your mortgage. You guys own a home or you rent? Yeah.

We own a home. Okay. So, we're going to cover the mortgage. We're going to put food on the table. We're going to keep the utilities on, cover all of those bills, and cover your transportation needs. Outside of that, >> Okay. if you can't pay for it, you can't pay for it. If you can't make the minimum debt payment, so be it. I'd rather have the credit card companies mad than your house being taken away from you.

Okay. So, you come first.

Don't cover his bills. We're not covering anything for his lifestyle. In fact, you may want if this isn't going well and counseling is not an option for him, you may want to create your own separate accounts so that he doesn't start to drain it in his depressive state. We've never joined accounts.

Okay. So, it's separate. Your money goes to your account and you're paying all of the bills from that one account.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a full picture of his finances? Do you actually know how much debt he has?

It's around 45K. And what kind of debt

is that?

>> Um school loans. He has a personal loan and his car. And none of that is in your name? None of it None of it is in my name.

>> Great. Well, there's the good news.

So, that's the best news of this entire call is that he can't drag you down. Um, you

can take care of the mortgage. I think you need to be thinking about how do I make more income? How do I create, you know, uh, an emergency fund?

Uh, how do I create more margin? Uh, so

that his destructive behavior, and what he's doing, by the way, is destructive.

He's not doing much, but it's destructive. And so, you got to take care of yourself right now. And I'm hoping We're hoping we can get you guys into some therapy and that you guys figure this thing out. But, you got to protect yourself right [music] now, unfortunately. We're so very sorry to hear that you're going through this.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no

whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection.

But, there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's a discounted there at a better price, take it. But, if not, Zander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

And that's why Zander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander Insurance for over 25 years, and so has my family. So, don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, let's go to Kayla in Miami, Florida. Kayla, how can we help?

Hi, how are you? Um so, right now I'm at a crossroads. Um my father just told us that he doesn't have enough money for retirement. He's been retired for several years. Um he's been retired for about 8 years,

and um basically he's been living off like an annuity that he thought would have covered his mortgage. He still has a mortgage, about $300,000 left on it. And

right now, my family and I are deciding how we're going to approach this. Do we bail him out, essentially, pay off his mortgage? Um or you know, do we have him sell his house move to a a cheaper area cost of living

area. So Keep in mind, you know, that $300,000 is what my family and I would use for our retirement once we're at that age. So

Why? Kind of What do you mean? The $300,000 is what

you would use for retirement? No, like investing that for our future retirement, you know. Like as an inheritance?

No, no, no, like so we have we my father

owes like $300,000 on his mortgage. So we were thinking that like That's a debt. >> essentially like Yeah, exactly. Help out dad and basically give him like 20 grand every year to pay off his mortgage cuz I

don't have $300,000 laying around. Mhm.

>> And so that was our thought, but at the same time that's money that we otherwise

would be using to investing. Yeah, you

guys are going to be in the same spot. Your kids are going to be funding your mortgage. It'll be a a wonderful generational gift.

Yes. >> So this is a definitely a bad plan to bail dad out after he did some real poor planning. Now, I'm not saying we need to be cruel. We don't want him on the street, but I also don't want you artificially propping up his life for the next 20 years.

Yes. >> How old is he?

He is 71 and on top of that his mother, my grand

mother, lives with him and she had no

retirement at at all and doesn't qualify

for like any anything because she immigrated to the country like a couple years ago. So it's kind of like a series of bad decisions. I'm fortunate. My husband and I do extremely well and it

wouldn't be my children's burden.

[clears throat] That will be for sure cuz they're pretty much already taken care of um for their life for their major events in their life. But, I just find like I'm having a moral dilemma with, you know, that's money I otherwise would have lost my children.

So, I don't know what to do. Have him sell the house.

What's it worth?

The house is worth like 700. So, that was my thought to sell the house, but then he kind of says, "Well, then I'm going to go move somewhere really far away." And then And then I kind of struggle with like, "Well, then you're leaving your grandkids, you know." >> Why does he have to move super far away?

I feel like South Florida is pretty expensive, cuz even if you go to like downsize into like a condo or a townhouse, like those HOA fees are still pretty high. So, you'd have to move like a lot further.

Okay, so what would a rental cost that's reasonable that's somewhat in the vicinity?

Um probably like 2,000 for like a one-bedroom, like no-frills. Okay. More or less. So, that's 24 grand a year.

Mhm. And if he has 400 grand in equity,

and he invests that money, it could spit off 20, 30, 40, 50 grand a year.

Mhm. So, that would essentially cover his rent.

Okay. >> I'm trying to figure out a way for him to be independent and not relying on you guys forever. Cuz how old is is your grandma?

She's 93, but they seem to live very long in my family. >> are good. The financial decisions are bad. Remind me, how old is your dad?

My dad is 71. Yeah. I you know, here

George is giving you great advice on the money stuff. Uh he can weigh in further.

I'm just listening to this, and I'm listening to a very good daughter. But, I'm also listening to a very good daughter who has worked up in her mind this burden that you have to carry. And once we solve the one burden, then you immediately gave us another burden. So, we said, "Well, then sell the house." That was one of your options. It's great. Gets him Gets him in better shape. Uh and you can He can go somewhere else, pay cash. And your immediate was, "Well, he's going to have to move too far away.

And that's too far away from my kids.

And I feel like we're creating problems that aren't really problems.

Mhm. Feels like you've got too much of this uh kind of stuck cuz it's not a moral you kept mentioning the moral. There's nothing immoral uh about the situation at all. So, I'm just trying to maybe I'm trying to free you uh by giving you some feedback here. I'm for you. You're a great great lady, great daughter, phenomenal. Your heart's in the right place. I think your head's in the wrong place.

Mhm. Yeah, exactly. And then I feel bad about, you know, to my own family, my own husband who works very hard. I work very hard, you know.

Well, that's where your head should be.

Yeah, your responsibility is to your own immediate family first. Yeah, and I I that's the part I agree with you on that. You should be making good decisions for you and your kids.

Dad's not your responsibility.

Yeah, and I and and he's not putting it on me, but at the same time I feel like he sacrificed so much to put us through college to then get us to the point like where we're making so well money only because of him, not my husband, just like for me and my other sibling. So, like I think that's where that dilemma comes in like Yeah, this is false guilt.

Yeah, I guess so. >> You can honor him without bankrolling him. Mhm. Give him some good advice.

He could downsize and buy something for 400 grand in cash further out.

True? >> Mhm. It's not going to be as nice, not going to be as fancy, which would which would solve the problem you're trying to help solve, correct?

Yes. Yes. And what is his foreseeable income for the next 20 years? How much is this annuity spitting off and for how long? Well, the annuity ends in like a year. So, he was supposed to use that annuity to pay off the mortgage, and he never did. Instead, he

like just enjoyed I think it was just like a lifestyle creep. Like he was just enjoying his retirement. And not in like an extravagant way cuz that's not how he is. But like But he was irresponsible once again >> with this annuity. And then what's going to happen if you guys are now funding his lifestyle and he gets comfortable?

>> no social security coming in?

He does. So that's what he would rely on and that's like going to be like that's about like 3,700 a month. Okay, so that's our number. How do we live off of 3,700 a month? And if you've got no house payment, he can do that. And and by the way, I want to remind you what you just told us when this guilt starts to creep in. Oh, my dad sacrificed for us. Yeah, he did. Not taking any of that away from him.

But he also did not use that annuity how he's supposed to. You just said it. So you got to have you can't have both of those thoughts in your head at the same time. So you got to choose the one that is the most accurate. And the most accurate is he squandered his money putting himself

in this situation. Not my dad sacrificed so much for us and we aren't taking care of him. That's a that's a false narrative and that shouldn't be in your head anymore. When it pops up, you need to immediately replace it with my dad is a grown man and he was not responsible with his money. And gosh, I feel so sorry for him that he has to sell his house so that he can stabilize in his in

his final season of life, but that's what he's got to do and that's what I'm going to recommend he do that. And then I'm going to wash my hands of it. That that may sound heartless but it's not. That's what protects you

from overthinking on all this stuff and

emotionally getting sucked into something that you're not supposed to be involved in. Now just out of like out if you had the money to pay it off, would you pay it off and then look at it as like a a way like whenever he passes, you'll sell the house and almost like it's an alternative investment. I would not try to justify this as anything other than I am I'm gifting my dad something that he simply cannot pay because I love him and it's a small part of our financial world and it's not going to set us back.

What? I'm sorry. At what point? >> have $300,000 sitting around, right?

That's what you said earlier.

Not like a hundred. I mean, they're an asset, but not like >> not going to sell off our retirement to cover dad's mortgage. So, if I'm in your shoes, what I'm going to do is love him in the way of saying, "Hey Dad, you're going to need to downsize. We can't afford this.

You can't afford this. We're going to help you create a budget for this 3,700 to make sure that it covers all of your bills and you can enjoy some life, but it's going to look different. This is your boundaries." Versus, "Hey Dad, he's 93 and now it's he wants 2,800 bucks a month from each of the siblings to cover his lifestyle." I would not go down that path.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> All right, let's go to Manchester, New Hampshire, where Bonnie joins us. Bonnie, how can we help today?

Hi. Thank you for answering my call.

It's my birthday, so this is the best >> Happy birthday, Bonnie. How old are you today? >> Thank you. Thank you. I'm 30. 30? Oh, that's a big big one. Do you feel like an adult now?

Yes. I especially feel old. No, no, no,

not old. My gosh, careful. Careful, you're going to offend people that are seasoned like I am.

Uh but congratulations.

>> Oh, okay, got you. Well, now you are You are entering a decade where at some point you will just wake up one morning feeling like you had a great night's sleep, and as you begin to move, you feel as though someone was punching you the entire night. And I can't explain that, but that's the reality. >> science can't explain science can't explain. >> So, I already I totally understand that already. All right. >> we're there for you. Okay, how can we help you today?

All right. So I am an occupational therapist and my husband is an engineer

and right now we're in about $113,000

debt and 96,000 of that is student loans

and I have about 13,000 in personal loans and that comes from a truck that we had paid off and sold and then um we

redid our basement cuz our house flooded out. So um but my question today is how do I pay off my top student loan um when the interest is compounding almost every week. I log into my account and my my loan has been about $79,000 for years now and I'm at my wit's end just trying to pay that one off cuz it's the largest and I do want you to know that I am doing the debt snowball with all of my other debt besides that 79,000

but I I get so discouraged. How do you do both at once? You're either attacking the smallest one or you're attacking the one with the most interest.

So I have them listed out um in order

from from smallest to greatest and I'm

I'm definitely throwing most of my um extra money at the smallest one but I am

throwing more at um the highest school loan as well. So um

my minimum in um payment was $314 just

to cover the interest for the highest loan and I decided to throw a couple hundred more dollars towards that one just so I could get ahead and it's it's just still growing. So I don't know um I just don't know how to go about it anymore.

>> So I know this sounds crazy but the $79,000 is made up of about 19 small school

loans. It's a federal loan, so they're all between 4 to 6%.

Okay. So, none of that is is crushing. I know it feels like a lot and there's a big balance there, but it's actually great that they're split up cuz that means you're going to see progress faster than if you were attacking this as one giant loan.

Mhm. So, what is the smallest balance?

So, it's really confusing I because >> It's not. Just go down to the bottom of the list and tell me the smallest balance.

So, when I pull up that on my computer,

um it doesn't have it listed smallest to greatest. Um Sort by Overall, I know

this is such a confusing You should be using every dollar, Bonnie. I'll give you every dollar. It'll sort it for you.

I think the spreadsheet is where this one got out of whack.

I actually have it and I stick to it every month, but I'm just I'm trying to organize it in my brain to make it sound less confusing. So, my medical >> brain is the worst place to organize anything. It's a junk drawer up there.

All right, we've Could you two move forward, please? I'm trying to get to the bottom of this. What is the smallest balance? Let's just speak philosophically at this point since we can't figure it out. If a third grader looked at your spreadsheet, they would find the smallest number to be what?

It's about 800.

>> Boom. Okay. Oh, there we go. What are you guys bringing in per month?

9,500.

Great. Why is this loan not paid off yesterday?

So, because that's that's only a snapshot of all of my debt. Like it's

only a little portion. So, my I'm just going to read off what my spreadsheet says here, so it'll be less confusing.

So, my medical debt is 3,390

dollars. My basement I owe 5,000. My

next school loan is 6,000. My husband's

truck that we sold and we were negative underwater with that and we owe 7,000 on

that. My next school loan is 11,000 and

then the big one that I'm specifically talking about right now is 79,000.

But that 79,000 you said is split up.

It is. >> So it's not really 79,000.

It's $800, $2,000, $3,000, so on and so

forth. Right. Right. So that's how we're actually looking at this. Don't look at it as as a 79 79,000 loan. Split

everything up. 19 of those in the spreadsheet, looking at the smallest balance, that's where your focus goes.

So out of the 9,500, how much extra do you have each month to throw at the smallest debt if you stop this avalanche deal? Um probably two grand. Boom. Do you see what just happened there? You actually cleared a debt. So I guess that's why I called in cuz I've been so confused. So total I have like 25 loans instead of 1 2 3 4 5 6.

Yes, 25 loans and we're just going to work our way down the list.

That's it. >> Okay. And if you guys you're living off of 7,500 uh that includes your minimum payments, right? Minimum payments plus all of your expenses are 7,500 and you have 2,000 left to throw on top of that smallest debt.

So now the game is how do we get more of that margin? How can we make more? How do we spend less? Are you guys doing any investing whatsoever right now?

No, we put that on pause. No match whatsoever. No, I'm trying to look for another job at night when my kids are asleep that I could do from home, which was something else I was going to ask you and what >> No, that's awesome. I love that you have that level of intensity about this.

Do you guys have anything in savings?

We do. Yep. Anything above that?

>> Just 1,000. Just a thousand.

>> No. Okay, great. So you're you're so close to doing this plan full on. We just need to switch our our brain around this debt avalanche thing. I think that's what's screwing you up.

Okay. >> It's causing you to to stall out cuz you're trying to do three things at once. Just try it my way for 1 month, Bonnie, and see if you feel better. Cuz a lot of getting out of debt is emotion.

It's behavior. It's the psychology of it. It's not the spreadsheet that's the the enemy here. It's the person in the mirror and we can solve that with this amazing income.

They're bringing in 10 grand a month. I'm going I think there's some expenses we can cut out of that 7,500. >> your homework assignment, Bonnie. Where else can we cut?

Uh can we sell some stuff? You know, between cutting and selling, can we make another $5,000 dent? It's a good question. Maybe you can't.

Maybe it's only 2,000. But that's the mindset where there's a will, there's a way that still works. Let's go to Gina in Salt Lake City.

Hi. Hi, Jen.

Hi, George. Hi, Jen. Hi, how are you?

How can we help?

I have a question that kind of centers around how to prioritize

uh my husband and I's finances as we near retirement. >> Okay. Hit us with the question.

Um so we are

about 6 years out from retirement

and right now we're both doing 401K with our employer.

We have um a mortgage and I think that we have enough in our 3 to 6 months. Okay. And I'm I'm just wondering the excess that we have each month, we bring in

uh roughly 6,000 take home

and our expenses are roughly 4,000.

Great. That's after investing.

Uh yes. Great. So, you got 2K left over and you're wondering what to do with it.

And yeah, [clears throat] cuz What's your What's left on the mortgage?

What's the balance? What's left on the mortgage balance?

It's 91,000. Love it. Okay, are you investing 15% of your household income?

Um so I I have a 401k that I'm putting 11% in

and then my employer matches four. Okay, you should be investing 15% and then your employer matches on top of that. So the match is gravy on top and baby step four. So this is what I would do in your shoes.

Make sure that you guys are dialed up to 15% of your gross household income going into these tax advantage retirement accounts. >> [music] >> Anything on top of that, I would be throwing at that mortgage. Let's get this thing knocked out before you enter retirement, then we can really maxing [music] out things as we head to the finish line.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

They're not budgeting, then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal.

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>> [music] >> The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by YRefi. If your private student loans are in default, it's a mess, but YRefi can help clean it up.

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Today's question comes from Liam in Washington. He says, "I I'd appreciate your perspective on a recent news story. When actor James Van Der Beek passed away, a GoFundMe was created for his family.

Reports indicate the goal has increased multiple times and now exceeds $2 million despite him reportedly owning a

multi-million dollar home and significant property. Many people are pointing to this as evidence that medical expenses can financially devastate even high earners. If someone with that level of income and assets needed financial help, what hope is there for the average American? What concrete steps should families take to ensure their loved ones are not left relying on public donations after a death?" Woo. There's a lot in there, One Can. I I did see this floating around the internet.

I've not studied it, but I did see that there was this GoFundMe and uh it's always interesting to me when the number keeps increasing. You know, I'm not I try not to be skeptical, but I go see you needed uh 20 grand and now you go well, actually 50 grand would be nice.

Actually, 100 grand would be even better. So, I don't know. I'm not here to speculate. I've seen there was speculation.

People are wondering what's going on here and I don't know the state of James Van Der Beek's estate when he passed if he had a bunch of debt. A lot of rich people out there who can pass away and have a bunch of debt to their name. >> Yeah. That's not unheard of.

>> Yeah, we simply don't know. And so instead of focusing on which report on social media is correct cuz you that'll drive you nuts. I think that the final the final question in that um email is the one we addressed, you know, and there you're basically going uh how do we prepare for something like this? And in this situation, George, the question is if the medical debt was in his name and he dies, what happens to the medical debt?

>> It's gone. They're not coming after your family for that.

that's the fundamental answer. Right? Uh

but that only feeds into the conspiracy theory even more, which we're not going to take on. Yeah. Now, in a in terms of >> So, why would they even need it? Yeah, my guess is this is the best case scenario. This they didn't want to have to sell off any assets of the estate in order to cover any debts that were owed.

And so, they're probably raising these funds to try to cover those separately so that the estate remained untouched.

>> Right. And so, so that goes back to your to your answer though. It doesn't just wipe away. If there's money in the estate to cover the medical debt, then they will they can go after it. Yeah. And so, therein lies the issue. So, uh you know,

it's it's a tough situation. There's really no clear-cut answer as to what you do in that situation. >> I would not be freaked out if you're the average American. There's a lot of concrete steps you should take to ensure your loved ones are not left relying on public donations.

I I pray that there's never a GoFundMe GoFundMe after I pass, Ken. Yeah. hoping to do a good enough job my family. >> them a quick tip.

>> Number one, the thing you need today is term life insurance if anybody relies on your income. 10 to 12 times your annual income in a term level policy.

years makes sense for most people.

And here's the thing, if you follow the baby steps, you get a 15-year mortgage, guess what? After 15 or 20 years, you've got a paid for house and you've been investing 15% of your household income for decades. So, there's a nest egg and a paid for house. So, the goal here is become debt free as soon as possible so that your family has no headaches.

There's no debts to pay off. And so, they can just grieve your loss instead of also dealing with the stress of paying bills. And then the other thing you can do is create an estate plan.

For most people, a will is the simplest route to go. And Mama Bear Legal Forms is our partner on this. They're fantastic. You can knock it out online in minutes. And for some people, when they have this level of wealth, a trust makes sense. And I'm sure there was trusts involved with his estate. And that can help you sort of control the assets as well.

>> reminds me, our good friends at Zander Insurance, if you're somebody that has does not have term life insurance and the advice that George gave, you need to go talk to Zander. You won't believe how affordable truly inexpensive good term life insurance is. And our friends at Zander has been a partnering with us for for decades. They'll help you out.

And that's how you rest well at night to go, all right, if I rack up a bunch of expenses and I've got the right term life plan, I'm going to be in pretty good shape not to leave anybody in the lurch. So, >> about that. You've got a will in place so everybody knows what's going to happen if and when it happens.

you've got term life in place. Should you pass away within that term policy, there's there's going to be a payout of a million dollars to help cover your family's expenses for long term as you invest that. And then, stay debt free, have an emergency fund, build a nest egg for the future. Your heirs will inherit the IRA or the 401k helping them cover any bills that need to be paid.

But, that's the goal is become debt-free, stay debt-free. It's one of the best reasons to follow the Ramsey plan cuz it puts you and your family in a great position for legacy. Really good. Let's go to Dylan in Phoenix, Arizona.

Hey, what's going on, guys? How are you? Good. How are you today?

I'm doing good. Uh so, I just had a question for you. Um 22 years old. I

make 10 to 12,000 a month.

My monthly bills are about $3,000.

And I'm saving for a Can-Am side-by-side, but they can be 20 to $25,000.

So, my question is, uh would you recommend paying cash for something like that or financing it if I can afford the payment? I only have like $5,000 saved for the Can-Am. What are you going to use the side-by-side for?

Um I go to the like sand dunes a lot and all my buddies go do off-road riding like every weekend. So, it'd be used a lot. Okay. Are you newer to the show? Uh

What's that? >> Are you newer to the Ramsey show? Have you been listening for a little while?

Uh yeah, I'm I'm pretty new to the show here. Okay. So, one of the values on this show is not owing people any money.

And an even bigger value is not going into debt for a depreciating asset.

And so, the goal here, and you can do this very easily at 22 making 10 to 12K

a month, that is wild. I'm very happy for you. You're very successful for your age. So, here's the deal. If you can't stomach paying

$20,000 out of pocket, it's probably not the right time to purchase the side-by-side.

Cuz too many people can stomach a $400 payment cuz they don't want to part with their 20 grand or they don't have it as most Americans. And so, to feel the pain of purchase is actually the best thing in today's America cuz everything is frictionless. Every dealership will make sure the payment is low enough for you to feel good about leaving paying them a ridiculous amount of money with interest.

So, can I tell you what's smarter? Why don't you find a 5 grand used side-by-side off Facebook Marketplace?

Yeah, so that's kind of what I do. Like, I got my truck off there. So, the only debt I have is my the home um I just purchased. Cool. The only reason I was thinking of um financing the side-by-side would be I could not have the $20,000 out of pocket

and invest that and make money while I'm paying off the debt. >> that right now? Is that 20 grand invested?

Yeah, yeah. It's in a uh in a high-yield savings account. >> That's not That's not invested.

High-yield savings account. So, it's making 3% and you're going to take on this side-by-side loan for a brand new side-by-side at 20 grand at what? 6% interest?

Probably, yeah.

This is a bad trade, man.

Okay. >> There's guaranteed return of you paying of you staying out of debt. There's a volatile return in the stock market.

There's a volatile return even with these high-yield savings accounts, and you're paying income tax on the income you make from the savings account. How much cash do you have put away?

Um so, I have like 40,000 in savings, but that's not for Can-Am. That's just kind of for a rainy day or you know, just a savings account. And then, I only have 5,000 saved up for the Can-Am so far. Well, then here's the deal. I'm online right now, and I'm seeing a 2021 Yamaha Wolverine X2 R Spec 850. I like

just saying that. I didn't even know what I just said. The more numbers and letters, the more they can charge. Uh I'm I'm no side-by-side guy. As will come no surprise to anybody who knows me or knows what I look like, but uh that's $8,995.

You only got another month of saving up for that, and you pay cash for it.

And you're going to You're going to beat the snot You're going to beat the snot out of this thing, anyway, right?

Yeah. >> I guarantee you every every single side-by-side that is financed in America today is underwater.

They owe more than the thing is worth.

And then they call this show saying, "Hey man, I did a dumb thing and I was making 10 grand a month at the time and so I thought I could afford it, but I lost my job now and I this thing's going to get repoed." These are the calls we get, Dylan. And so let some other dingus prepay the appreciation and you get a deal. >> I'll bet I'll bet you all your buddies have financed these things and so you just think it's normal. And you want By the way, I could hear the tone in his voice when I said a 2021.

He's like, "Yeah, gross." Like this thing is going to be nasty and full of sand and all kinds of crap.

I don't know, Dylan. Buy used. This is too much of your world. You're too young to be making a decision this stupid and you're too successful [music] as well.

>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman, George Camel is alongside.

We're excited that you're with us.

Fabulous studio audience out in the lobby today, George. Yeah, look at them.

They're all waving at us. So fantastic.

>> Venezuela. >> That's right. So this is a global show.

I got to call my mom and tell her You made it. Made it international.

>> it, Mom. I've done you proud. Uh 888-825-5225.

We're having fun today. We're going to help you out. We'll have some fun along the way if that's okay with you.

Christina is up in Salt Lake City.

Christina, how can we help?

Hello. Thanks so much for taking my call. I appreciate that. Sure. What's going on?

Yes, hi. Um so [clears throat] we have four kids um and my husband and I went

on our first cruise, just the two of us.

And so grandma watched the kids, really liked it. And we uh went ahead and

went and planned another cruise just to take the all of us together. So I got

two built part uh part-time jobs so because on one single income of his, the cruising money is just not quite there.

And we're just trying to figure out the best way to manage what I'm earning.

Well, then I make about between 10 to 12K a year.

Um and how to go on a cruise with that money. And the reason I'm asking um my husband wants to He's like, "What about 10% towards char- charity? What about 15% towards retirement of that? What about extra mortgage payments?" So he keeps kind of nickeling and diming me like 10% 10% this, 10% that. But I feel like we don't have much left for the cruising fund. So tell me if that's the right thing what he's telling me to do or should I just take a 100% and splurge on the vacation for the family.

That's my question. Well, based on the conversations you guys had, it sounds like he just doesn't want to go on this cruise.

He does. He does, but he wants like what about an extra mortgage payment because he's 47 and we own 100 >> He's a tightwad like me. He's just like ah, we should be doing other things with that money. Exactly. Exactly. >> it. I love it. I'll play husband and and Ken will play the role of Christina. Oh, great.

>> Perfect. >> But my question before we role-play is

uh why isn't why aren't you guys doing this with his income?

The charity giving and the other things that you rolled through. Why does it have to come out of the 10 to 12,000 that you're making?

Exactly. Exactly. That's what I said, but he's like well everything helps. Come on, we've only got 184,000 to go on the house. Like even if you put, you know, like I but I only work during the summer. >> time it's paid off, the kids won't even want to go on a cruise with you. That's the sad truth. Exactly. And the oldest is 15 going to 10th grade.

>> Oh, this is your last shot. You'll be lucky if the 15-year-old even wants to go. So, here's the deal. You guys are completely debt-free outside of the mortgage?

Correct. You have an emergency fund?

Uh we're getting there. He was unemployed for like a month and a half, so we did we we realized we didn't have enough, but we're really close to be finishing with that. So >> Okay, what's the price of the cruise for six of you including everything? Travel, cruise, any other expenses?

So, we're thinking between about 12 grand. I mean between airfare, the cruise fare, hotels, you know what I'm saying? Like Uber here and there. >> this the Ramsey cruise you're talking about?

No, just the Royal Caribbean. Oh, boo.

I was kidding. I I knew it wasn't, but I thought I'd get a little plug in there, you know? Because, you know, the cruise you're going on isn't going to have George and I on there. >> That's true. No pickleball with Ken.

>> No pickleball. Yeah, so >> Okay, but two grand a person that sounds reasonable. >> sound reasonable. >> here's what I would tell you. The budget will dictate the type of cruise you guys can go on. It's that simple. So if you got 12k, you're we're going to make sure that all of our expenses are within that 12k budget. You got 13k, well that budget just got up to a little bit. You got 10k, well now we're going to have to do some budget shopping. See if there's a different cruise that is still great.

Correct. So the thing you don't want to do is go, "Well, we only have 10k saved but the cruise we really want to do is 15. We'll just put five on a credit card." That's what most people do.

So don't be most people. >> bit, right? Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So to your husband's point, as long as you guys are investing 15% of the household income, you're giving. We're not going to nickel and dime your your side hustles here.

If you are working solely to save up for the cruise, let it be for the cruise.

Perfect. See, he did not like it and I'm like, "My little contribution is just not going to make a difference." That's what I'm Well, you're working temporarily for a specific purpose.

Correct. >> This is not regular income for the household in perpetuity, forever.

You're only doing this to save up for the cruise, which I love that intensity.

That tells me you really want this thing cuz you're not robbing Peter to pay Paul. You're going, "I will create this cruise money out of thin air because I want this so bad." >> Yeah. Mhm. And the question is can he also is there room in your income from his income to also help contribute to this cruise savings fund?

I mean, not really being honest. That's why we haven't done that since the kids were little. We just go camping and all that stuff. So So what kind of tension

What kind of tension is around this conversation? I detect a little bit of tension. Like you're going to get off this call and be like, "I called Ken and George and they said it was okay and I don't know if I like that." Am I Am I right or am I wrong that there's a little tension on this?

It is. Wow, you guys can listen really well and can tell. Um he just has with a paycheck, he doesn't do any bills, I take care of that. So, really he just kind of like tell me when you have the money, then we can book. That's kind of how it is. So, we're even looking either either in the summer right now, which the prices are high. We're already been talking to the travel agent.

Or the next spring, because this fall I we did find one for 6,400, but he's like, "It's my hunting season." I'm like, "What am I going to tell my siblings?" I'm like, "Oh my goodness." It's what season?

Hunting season. You know, they want to do their hunting, so.

I'm like, "Okay." >> So, the siblings will be upset if he misses one hunting trip.

Apparently, correct.

>> a season is more than a week. You're going on a cruise for a week, I imagine.

Yes. Oh, let me tell you this, sorry.

Being the 10th grader and the 7th grader next year, do not want to miss school.

So, it has to be either a fall, spring, or the summer. I think we got to have a family meeting, is what I think. I think this >> Is that what it is? Okay.

>> so. Everybody's got to get on the big old giant calendar and go, "All right, spit shake, we're doing this week, everyone in agreement." >> Yeah, cuz I think we got levels of intensity is what I'm picking up on. I think you really want to go on the cruise with the family more than anybody else. I think husband is probably number two, but him saying, "Well, what if we do this?" I think George picked up on that.

I don't think he's 100% bought in on this. And then I think the kids are kind of like, So, let's have a family meeting and decide, you know, do we really want to do this?

you're the mom and you're going to throw some, you know, some influence around as moms and wives can do.

Hello, happy wife, happy life. I've been married 28 years. I pretty much do what Stacy wants us to do. It's okay. I mean, you just tell me how >> read the room and go, "Stacy wants us to do this, guys. We're doing this. We're going to have a smile on our face." I can see throwing out the, "Well, I'm going on a hunting trip." That's just a guy kind of testing the waters. Want to see if there's a It's true. Oh, yeah.

That's an excuse. >> 100% it's an excuse. So, let's have a family meeting and decide, do we all really want to do this? And and then see where it lies, and then you got to meet with hubs and go, "Hey, look, I'm working for this sole purpose.

You need to look at what I'm doing as vacation money. If we want to give charitably and give over here, then we got to do that in this pile." And if he disagrees, that's fine, but I just There's enough tension around this that I think it's showing me that we need to have a greater conversation about what we're doing with money, how and when. Yeah, there's really a Yeah, there's a gap in the values here. You value experiences with your family, and he's going, "Hey, there's other financial needs that we need to take care of." Well, let's make a plan for both.

I think there's a compromise here. We're going to have the mortgage paid off this year if we keep it this rate, and [music] we're going to go on this trip.

So, plan the schedule, plan the budget,

get everyone aligned, and then just go.

Don't overthink it. Life is short. That 15-year-old, the time is ticking.

They're going, "Ugh, cruise with my parents, lame." This is your last shot.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, Chris is up in Omaha, Nebraska. Chris, how can we help?

Hi, how are you? Good. How are you, Chris? I am doing well. My question for you guys is I'm curious how much I should have in my emergency fund with a family of four, a high commission job, and a wife that's an educator.

Love it. Great question. So, what is your household income on average?

Um about $250,000 a year. Woo! Fantastic

income. All right. So, the commission is coming through, my friend.

Yes. How long you been doing this job?

Nine years. Okay. >> And how old are the kids?

Uh two 7-year-olds, two 4-year-olds.

Fanta- Are they twins?

Yes. Two sets of twins?

That's amazing. Okay. Well, uh here's the deal with emergency funds. We say 3 to 6 months and there there's a a spectrum there for a reason. Some people, 3 months is plenty. For some people, 6 months makes more sense. And for a commission job where it is variable, I would definitely be leaning 6 months. Especially every kid you add is just one more thing that could come up. You're just adding more potential emergencies. So, what is 6 months uh to run your household of actual expenses?

25 to 30,000.

That's 6 months' worth?

A a total? Are you asking per month?

Yeah, per So, you're saying per month you're talking about 4 to 5 grand covers all of your bills?

Correct. Wow, you guys are living frugally for making 250. That's impressive. >> Yeah. Are you guys off the grid?

Mhm, no. Oh. Everyone healthy in the family?

Yes. Okay, wonderful. Then I would just lean towards 6 months. If 25 grand does it, that's great. And here's the truth of the matter, if you did have a bunch of emergencies all in 1 month that were 26 grand, 28 grand, you could cash flow it very easily with your income.

Correct?

Yes. Great. All right, there you go, Chris. Appreciate the call. We helped at least one person today. >> Well, I think so. Nick is joining us in New York City. Nick, how can we help?

Hello. Hello, Nick. He seems surprised to be on the air. It's Ken and George.

It just went blank all of a sudden. Um >> That happens to me all the time. Don't worry about it. What's going on?

So, I have a uh two large loans that I was curious the smartest way to get rid of uh at least one.

Um I make about 60 76 a year.

And uh one is uh $9,300

at uh 16% interest. And the other one is

going to be at almost 15,000 at 9%

interest.

Okay.

And uh Is that all of your debts? Total? Uh that's that's all my debts, yeah. Okay.

So, you got about 24 grand in debt, you're making 76. Are you single? Uh

I I'm with a girlfriend, a living girlfriend. Are you covering her bills?

Uh at the moment. Oh boy. Well, that's a

that's a rabbit trail that I want to go down badly, but I will not. I'll just say this, please do not combine finances or pay off anybody else's debts.

>> We don't have to go down the rabbit trail. Although I think it might be fun, but uh the point is is that's the answer to your question. Stop paying for her and that and that allows you to pay off debt faster.

It sounds like you're stressed out about the interest. My guess is you want to tackle uh the 16% interest first, right?

That that was my thought. Uh I have about um $16,800

uh saved. Um You have 16,000?

16,000, yeah. Oh, awesome. How much are you paying? I'm not leaving the girlfriend alone because this actually real money. I'm serious. How much are you paying every month for her bills and her stuff?

Well, it's basically it's uh bills that we both use. So, you know, uh phone, we have uh two lines on the same phone line, uh electric and all that stuff. Um when she had her job before, uh she's currently looking for a new one, she was paying half the bills, I was paying the majority of the other bills so I could rent and some other stuff.

Um Oh boy. >> Other than that, it's it's it's it's small. It's not it's not much. Um but my

goal >> How much is it? You sound like a politician on a Sunday morning show when you ask a direct question. Is it 500 bucks a month?

Uh I get that they're split.

>> less. Okay. >> Yeah, so uh currently because it's winter, uh it's kind of coming out of winter now, it was about anywhere between 200 to 300 electric.

Uh 825 in rent and then maybe uh $200

with the phone and internet. I'll tell you, Nick, I wouldn't be job hunting super hard if I had Bank of Nick at hand to cover the bills anyways. Fact. Just saying. All right, but to the question at hand, we teach the debt snowball method because we have found that that's what actually causes people to get out of debt. So, the debt snowball method says focus on the smallest balance first regardless of the interest rate. Now, it's your lucky day because your smallest balance has the highest interest rate. Right?

>> Yeah. So, the main question is why haven't you used part of that 16 grand you have saved to just knock out this debt?

That's what I was I was planning on doing, but I figured, you know, what? Let me call one of you guys and see what my options are cuz I This is the first time I've ever been able to hold savings.

My whole life has been one step forward, five steps back. >> Do you think that's partially due to the debt that you've been taking on?

Wouldn't it be easier to save up money if you've had no payments?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Well, there you go. One more reason to knock out the debt. What's the payment on that $9,300 debt? Uh 9,300 is 430 a month. Boom. So, you know what happens? You clear that debt and you still have what? Almost seven grand left over.

Uh yeah, about yeah. So, let's take six of that apply it to the next one.

I'm a three three of that's actually going to my car fix. Okay.

So, we're down to 13 minus the nine.

Right? So, that leaves us with around four. You could take another three of that and tackle your next debt. So, that brings you to a total balance of 12K left over and we have an extra 430 bucks to throw at that debt. And girlfriend needs to be pulling her weight.

That's another nice raise.

She She's going to bust on me now. She She hears me, guys. How much you paying for these phone lines?

How I'm sorry, how much what? How much are these phone lines?

Uh we're paying $70 for um the internet,

so that's $140, I believe. For the uh phones. Oh, your phones are included with the internet. Is that what's happening?

Uh it's it's a cheaper plan for the phones because we have the internet bundled in, but the internet itself is $70. Okay.

I was going to tell you that switch your phone I think you're overpaying for your phone plan is what I was getting at. You could save some money there. So, I think there's some savings to be had in your expenses. Uh if you want to switch, we have a great partner with Boost Mobile. You can jump on to boostmobile.com/ramsey.

25 bucks a month. So, if you're paying 50 now, well, you just freed up times two. You You save 50 bucks a month just like that. So, there's a lot of things you can do in your budget. My guess is you haven't been paying super close attention to what's actually going on with your money. And if you did, you'd go, "Ooh, I can shave here. I can shave here." You'd find another 500 bucks on top of this 430 you're about to free up.

Yeah. So, now we got a thousand bucks a month going at this remaining uh 13k.

>> And what do you do for a living?

I do water treatment.

Yeah, you're pretty handy guy. I picked up a you do your own work on your own car. Yes. I mean, I'd be looking for I would say that at least 2K in labor, I believe. Yeah, good for you, boy. So, 5K job became a 3K job. >> But my point is is is could you do some work on the side given all that handy skills that you have just to make more money to to just make this thing go faster, you know? So, I'm just I want you to be thinking how do I do this?

George just walked you through a lot of it, but you could also bring in some more income. I mean, every time we have a debt-free scream on the stage, the income goes up

every time. We go, "Okay." They They tell us how much they paid off and how long and we say, "All right, what was your income in that time?" And they go, "It was this, and then it went up." Every time.

And so, uh know that you can do that as well to fast forward all this.

Okay. Do you have a goal in mind of when you're actually going to become debt-free if you follow this plan?

As soon as possible. Don't love that.

That's not a date. You sound like a politician again. How about this? You're you're paying off your debt today, the 9,300. We're going to put a little bit remaining on that 15K. We're down to 13K, right? So, now it's I'm going to pay off $13,000 in 6 months.

And put that on the calendar, market, put it on your bathroom mirror. Come hell or high water, we are getting rid of this debt. And that means no matter what it takes, no matter what sacrifices. And that might [music] mean, "Hey, girlfriend, you're going to need to cover your own bills through some side gigs cuz I got some debt to pay off." That's a real conversation that should have happened yesterday.

Well, she just heard it, apparently. Oh, boy. Is she on the line, too? >> said that she was listening. She's no friend of mine? No. No.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, welcome back to the Ramsey show. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225

is the number to jump in. Hey, if you've ever wanted to see the person who's calling in asking these

questions. What would it be like to be in the same room with them? You got your chance. We're taking the Ramsey show back on tour. We've got four cities coming up. You get to experience the show live, raw, in the room. And it's a

lot of fun. We did two last fall. They were great, sold out. These are going to sell out. We're in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim coming up this April. We're doing these in really cool venues, only 300 seats.

Uh and they're very intimate. So, we'd love to see you. Uh grab your tickets at ramseysolutions.com/events.

That's ramseysolutions.com/events.

Brian is up in Syracuse, New York now.

Brian, how can we help?

Hey guys, good afternoon. Hey, so >> I've been interviewing at some companies

and I am anticipating hopefully a couple

offers to come in in the next couple weeks here. Um I have background and experience in the roles I'm interviewing for, but the roles are net new to the

businesses I'd potentially be joining.

So, my question is what resources can I

use to help determine market value so I can most wisely negotiate my total compensation?

Yeah, well, if it were me, I mean, I would be doing research on this. Uh and

so, you can choose whatever you want to do, whether that's Claude, ChatGPT, Grok, I don't care, you know, Google.

But you want to dive in and get as many resources as you can that create a

a pretty good narrative that's provable

on the range and see where you stand first. So, I'd be doing that first and go okay, where based on where I think I'm at from a skill standpoint and experience based on the again the size of the company, the industry itself. There's a lot you can do and you get a pretty good idea of the range that you think is realistic. So, that's where I would start and and see where you land on that and and then when you get an offer any kind of negotiation is based and needs to be based in reality.

Yeah, that's where I was trying to land, you know, like I can use GPT and that's fine, but I want reliable good data so I can say hey, here's my experience, here's the conversation we've had and then based off of this rock solid data, here is where I've come to this number.

Well, again, when you get that information, ask for the sources.

Yeah. You'd be surprised. You know, you can find that you can find that. And then you'll have a range and you know what you're looking for and so when you go in there, be confident, don't be rude, but be firm and say hey, I'm currently interviewing for positions in this range. And usually what you want is your bottom end is really the kind of where you want to be. At this stage though, you should have already discussed with them in the interview process salary expectations, yes or no?

Uh yeah, I left it a little open.

Um so, I didn't say you know, I need X. I thought that'd be better positioned once they they want me, they know that I can really get it done and I have a bit more leverage. So, I I have an idea, but I would say like even their range is

lower than what I came from. So, it's still doable, but again, you know, I want to maximize and I'm looking at more than just that dollar, you know, I want to look at the total package as a whole. Have you let them know that?

Yeah. Okay. >> did. So, they're aware of hey, we're kind of low for where this guy is at and what he's currently making. How can we make this compensation package as a whole a little bit more exciting?

Yeah, exactly right. And and these interviews as well just came from, you know, networking like direct conversations. Um so, I didn't want to necessarily blow it before we got there.

Um and the conversations have been and really exceptional. So, yeah, again, I want to make sure I get good data, good information. >> So, now we take the data that you're going to go find and you can prove it and you got some sources and and again, the you're never going to get an exact amount. You're always going to get a range, but if we do our research and we've got some real sourcing, which is easy to do in today's world, trust me.

And so, we're going to take that research and and that just informs us based on where you are right now. You're not going to go take the job for less money.

So, the the starting point is where you are now. That's the basement, correct?

Uh yeah, I mean, honestly, I would I'm I was part of a big layoff, so I would even take a little bit less just to kind of get back up there and work back up.

>> Okay, but know what your basement is is my point. So, when you go into respond to an offer, you got to say, "Okay, I know what my basement is and that's the worst case scenario and then how does the research inform where I'm at on my basement?" And then you'll be fine, you know? And look, here's the thing.

All of this is about posture.

If you act like a jerk or act like an entitled punk, which you're not going to, but if any of us act that way in our response to an offer, then then that's where it could go south on you. But you have to control what you can control and if your posture is one of humility, but confidence,

okay? Based on knowing what you need and knowing where you belong from the research, if we've got a nice mix of humility and confidence to go, "Gosh, guys, I there's a lot about this I like, but realistically, and I don't know what you can do, that's a great negotiation tactic. I don't know if you can do more, but this would be ideal." I mean, that's all you can do, and you let the chips fall where they fall. I like that.

An open-ended, "Can you Can you do any better? I'm just curious." And if you leave it like that and the spirit's right, the vibe is right, then it's not offensive.

It's not going to hurt your chances of getting the job. >> sounds like he's in a He's at the tail end of this thing. >> Yeah. Let's land the plane, Brian. Let's go. >> it. Let's go to Richard next in Los Angeles. Richard, how can we help?

Hi, guys. Um hopefully, you can be some great assistance and some great recommendations for me. I uh currently have owned my home for about 4 and 1/2 years. I have about 300K in equity. Uh big mortgage payment. Uh I'm

single income in my family. Uh I'm married with three children. I take care of the household. My wife's a stay-at-home wife.

Uh home schools the kids as well, so she's busy, busy, busy, okay? Um

basically, I'm I'm just living every 2 weeks when I get paid, I net about 9 grand a month. My mortgage is about five. Um I don't have any car payments. My cars are paid for. Um I have about a $2,000 credit card that I owe some money I owe I owe money on, and I have a $5,000 credit card that I owe money on. My utilities are averaging anywhere from

All the utilities included about 700 a month. So, you know, and then I got food bill, all right? So, I got to feed the whole family. So, it's just I'm literally just, you know, tired of just hand-to-mouth. I'm 51 years old. So, I need to know, is you know, should I sell my home and just move out of the state and buy something within my means? You know, my mortgage rate's 3.9, so it's it's very low rate, you know, so I hate to lose that cuz rates are high.

But I'm just torn, and I'm tired of um living this, you know, every 2 a paid paycheck to paycheck kind of thing. It's just it's tough. And not to mention, I do have a little bit saved away in my 401k, not a whole lot, but you know, I I can't even do the, you know, 7% company match. I'm I'm barely hitting 3%. So, you know, it's just

Yeah, you're treading water in every area. You're trying to pay off the debt, but even that's hard. You don't have anything in savings. You're putting a pitiful amount in retirement, and things are tight. And it's directly tied to that gigantic mortgage payment. I mean, that's that's eating your lunch right now. That's over half your take-home pay, and it doesn't seem like any of the variables are changing. Your income is not going to go up drastically in the near future, is it? 6 to 12 months?

>> No, no. I've been on the job for 13 years. I'm not going anywhere.

Okay. And so, 9K is where we're staying, and guess what? The mortgage is only going to go up, because part of that is your escrow, which is your taxes and insurance. And as we know, insurance has been going up, taxes are going to continually go up on property taxes, especially in California. And so, the issue here is if your income stays about the same, and the mortgage goes up, it's only going to get worse. And so, your best bet would be to downsize.

Okay. Take that equity you have. It might be renting for a little while. It might be taking that 300K equity and putting a down payment on a a much, you know, cheaper or smaller house. I don't know how that affects your family and where you are location-wise.

Mhm. Um it it affects and it's, you know, it's the average house in California is like I think 540,000 right now, average in the region where we live.

So, you know, but I I don't I wouldn't be able to those neighborhoods aren't, you know, we live in a I I hate to say that, but

the neighborhood just wouldn't be something that we would feel comfortable living in. Yeah. Well, the reality is you're in a a very high cost of living area, and it requires a very high income. And you have a great income, but you bought too much house too soon.

>> [music] >> And so, you need to make some drastic decisions here, and that probably includes relocating, downsizing, and maybe a rent in a neighborhood you want for now, [music] and hang on to that 300 grand, get out of debt, get the emergency fund, and get to a better spot before purchasing your next one.

>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, do you plan on retiring a millionaire? Yes. Oh, that was a rhetorical. I'm sorry. >> No, no. I mean, a lot of people do, but the vast majority of Americans uh George never hit that mark. Here's a piece of data that I thought was shocking. Only 3% of US adults have $1 million saved for retirement. Is that shocking to you, or you so in the numbers that you're you're unshocked? Yeah, I mean, 97% have

less than a million dollars saved. If you switch the data around, you go, "Yeah, that tracks." That tracks. And here's the funny part, Ken. I In the comments section, as I encourage people to do this, they go, "A million dollars is nothing in today's America." I go, "Are you even investing?" No. The answer is no. So, here's the thing. Uh we're not saying that you only need a million dollars. For some people, that might be more than enough. For some, it might not be near enough. But, I want to show people today that you can

retire with a million-dollar nest egg, no matter how old you are. >> All right, cynics, pay attention. So, it's not about income, it's about margin, how much you're able to put away a month, and how early you start. And here's the other thing. We talk about investing, it's different than saving.

You can't save your way to wealth.

Saving is just parking money in an account. A high yield savings account maybe gets 3%. Investing, we're talking about in the stock market, in companies we're rooting for, partial ownership called shares, and we're rooting for these companies to grow in revenue, which increases the share price, which increases our nest egg. That's how compound growth works, your money making more money, making more money. So, I'm going to use the Ramsey investment calculator today to inspire you all to

become wealthy. All right? And if you don't become wealthy after watching this, that's your own fault. So, you guys can click the link in the description or jump on a ramseysolutions.com to use the calculator. So, Ken, let's throw out some scenarios, some ages, and I'll tell you how much you need to invest at that age to become a millionaire by 65. >> Okay, good. >> Or 62 in this case. All right.

Am I throwing these at you? >> out. >> Okay, here we go. How about age 24? Oh, okay. So, we're out of college, we got our first big boy job. >> Probably, right? And 24, and let's say you're going to retire at 62. You have the ability to do that because you started early. >> Okay. You're we're going to invest and we're going to also imagine you got a I don't know, thousand bucks in there so far. How much will you contribute monthly? $150 a month. We're going to

assume an 11% average annual rate of return. People go, "Where are you getting 11%? This guy's crazy." I'm literally looking at historical data of the US stock market over the last several decades. And if you look at the last few years, it's been up 23%, 25%,

17%. So, don't act like these numbers are crazy. This is pretty conservative here. So, calculate, as you can see, almost $1.1 million. 24 to 62, 150 bucks

a month. It's unbelievable. All right, let's jump it up a bit. All right. So, let's let's talk about these people that are they've been out of college for 10 years or so.

Uh no longer the young professional, but still young. Yep. >> 35. Okay.

so let's say by 35 you followed the plan, you're debt-free, you've got the emergency fund, you are ready to invest. 35, you would need to invest and we're going to say 65. You got a little bit of a later start, 65 is still a great age to be retiring, to not have to work anymore. You're going to have to invest $375 a month and you would have a little over a million bucks.

Now, what you'll notice here, Ken, is you have to invest a whole lot more as you get older in order to hit that same goal. And the beautiful part here is you don't need to invest a million dollars to have a million dollars.

The growth alone was $942,000.

That's the magic money of you just staying in the market, staying put, letting compound growth do the work. 87% was just the growth. So, let's say you get an even later start. >> Yeah, let's let's take a 10-year swing here. Let's go to 45. >> Okay, 45. Most people who call in the show at 45 go, "I am way behind. I got nothing saved in retirement." You would need to invest, here's, you ready for the sticker shock? $1,200 a month

to have a little over a million in that one account. You see what I'm talking about here? We went from 150 bucks a month to 1,200 bucks a month if you had a 20-year gap. And so, the power of starting early is powerful and you'll notice at 45 to 65 you had to contribute $288,000 to get that million. But at the ripe age of Well, we go back to that 24 to 62.

Look at this, you didn't contribute 288, you contributed about half a mill Oh, sorry, I messed it up here. Let me go back to that 150.

All right, here we go. Look at this, $68,000.

So, not only did you have to contribute less per month, but it was a total of 68 grand that got you that million. That's wild. >> It's doable. That 94% of that account balance was compound growth and it's the power of starting early. And let me tell you, if you're listening and you're going, "Well, George, must be nice to be 24 or 35 or even 45." It is not too late

for you. There is still hope yet, and that is just one account. And so, think about it. You got a paid-for house?

Well, that reduces the expenses that you'll have in retirement. So, it's not defined by your age, but by your financial goal. It's a number, and you can get there. So, go use the calculator for yourself to get inspired, not to lose hope, but to gain hope that you can build wealth for your family and leave a legacy. We'll drop a link in the description to that investment calculator for you guys to check out.

And this is why, by the way, you need to be using every dollar, right? When you've got to get to a point to say, "Okay, I've got to be disciplined now.

No longer am I going to let just money come in and leave and not know where it's going." So, having a budget, like EveryDollar, to use that app, to have a coach, a personalized plan, that's what's going to help you be disciplined to be able to put the right amount of money away to actually take care of your long-term goals. >> Exactly. People go, "Check out EveryDollar." Ken, where am I going to get 400 bucks a month?" I'm going, "Dude, your car payment's 600 bucks a month. I think we found the investment money.

You just traded it for something going down in value." >> Yeah, that's exactly right. >> It's there. Use EveryDollar. It'll It'll find you that margin.

John, what's your question?

Hey, Dave, and uh how you doing? Good. It's Ken.

>> and I uh have been here about a year. I moved from South America here to Boston with her, which was a big life change. So, we're now making uh I'm making 60, she's making 80 a year.

Uh and right now we're doing like half and half, and it's starting to weigh on me a little bit. My wife feels very strongly that uh her her uh a little bit

bigger salary and her savings it it should be all hers. And I don't feel like telling her that uh we should combine it, but it's weighing on me in a way cuz uh we moved into an apartment that she she preferred, and we bought a car that she preferred. Uh so, I'm just feeling the pressure of paying half of the expenses

uh expenses. So, you guys have never been aligned on money.

Uh Right?

We we've I mean we've tried. We did the Financial Peace University. We We took a

couple of shortcuts, I would say. Um No, we took some shortcuts. You're not only feeling pressure, you're feeling depressed because your wife doesn't listen to one thing you say about money.

Does it make you feel disrespected?

Emasculated, a little small, a little left out? >> Yeah. Well, I'm trying to I'm trying to keep up, you know, but >> Keep up with what?

Marriage isn't about keeping up. It's about >> ago I >> making your life better. >> You said I don't feel like telling her.

I mean you're you have been absolutely put in a jar, my friend, and you don't I don't need you to validate that. I was just trying to get you to realize what we're hearing. We're on your side.

But you guys have a massive marriage communication and values alignment problem that you got to get fixed. George and I can't give you some little one-two punch today. You guys need to get on the same page, and you may need a professional to help you, or you're going to end up resenting your wife if you don't already.

Are you feeling what I'm saying?

Yeah, absolutely. >> Am I wrong?

Uh I Well, I feel like she's a bit more open to find a solution that it sounds like maybe I I maybe I try a bit more to >> Okay. Well, then if she's open Okay, great. If she's open to meet you in the middle then you guys need to have a candlelight dinner tonight, and we get out every dollar, and we say we're going to combine finances, and then after we combine finances, we're going to put it in a budget, and we are going to get aligned, and we're not going to take shortcuts.

We're just not going to do it because she's thinking a shortcut's okay. You're stressed out by the shortcut, which leads back to the same problem. You guys aren't on the same page. George, what advice would you give here?

>> everything right now is Well, that's yours, this is mine, I make this money, you make this money, this is my thing, that's your thing. When you guys got married, everything became one, total unity. Right?

You can do it separately, it's just going to be a whole lot harder, and there's so many more ways you can screw it up. And so, you need to reset the conversation is that, "Hey, I have not done a good job leading in this area. I would like to restart and be totally unified for our financial goals so that we can win together. That's why we got married."

>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm [music] Ken Coleman, George Kamel is alongside, and we're here for you. 888-825-5225

is the number. Robert joins us now in Denver, Colorado. Robert, how can we help?

Hey Ramsey team. So, I got a lot of debt. It kind of escalated back in June,

and uh I'm looking at things, and uh I think I need some help. Okay, how can we help?

So, uh I got a car that was too expensive, and I ended up putting a lot

of my daily expenses on a credit card, and so uh it was at a point where I couldn't really afford the the car payment, and I was putting everything else on a credit card. So, now I'm kind of looking back at everything and uh I I

just recently got rid of the car and

there was negative equity. >> Uh so, I went I traded it in at a dealership and uh yeah, I just got trade-in value for the vehicle. And that paid off the loan?

It did not. So, I actually have too much

debt to income and I couldn't get a loan

to pay for the negative equity. So, I had to borrow money from my dad to

pay that negative equity. How much was that? Uh that was $4,100. Okay.

So, 4,100 to dad. What else What other debts do you have now?

And then I also have another $4,100 on a credit card. Um I got $3,000 in a personal loan

and $34,000 in student loans.

Okay, so that's the big one. Is that split up into a bunch of separate loans?

No, I actually refinanced uh in June and so now it's just one one loan for that. Okay. With a private lender?

Uh yes.

Okay. Well, we're going to debt snowball this thing. Do you have the income to support it and do you have reliable transportation right now? Uh I do and that's that's another part of this. So, I ended up borrowing money from my boss to buy a car. Oh my goodness. >> My My boss sold me uh one of his old work cars and uh I'm currently making him payments on that.

Well, that's an awkward situation.

Yeah, so it's it's real debt and IOU's.

>> Hard to ask for a raise right now, isn't it? A little bit. What do you make?

Uh so, I make about $46,000 a year.

Doing what? Uh I'm an arborist. Okay.

And how old are you?

Uh I'm 27 years old. Okay. Single?

Single. Great. Which means we have a lot of time on our hands and we can cut our expenses down to the bone and no one is affected but you.

Uh-huh. We agree? We agree. Sweet.

So, what can we do to make more money?

Cuz right now, uh you've got a a big pile of debt, right? You've got as much debt as you do income.

Yeah. Is that right? >> That that is that is true. That is right. >> So, that debt-to-income ratio, you're going, all right, something needs to change here. We can't change the debt picture. There's nothing we can sell. Uh you've you've already got rid of the car. You owe How much do you owe your boss?

Uh I owe my boss $500. Oh.

What car was this? Was it a $500 car? Or did you give him money on top of that?

It was It was a $2,000 car and uh I told

him I was like, "Hey, I really don't have the money right now, but I want the truck." And he's like, "Okay, well, uh Is he garnishing your wages?

He is not garnishing my wages, no, he is not. Where did the 1,500 come from?

Uh it came from my tax return.

Okay, which is essentially your wages.

That was money that would have been in your paycheck. Okay.

Well, Robert, uh the path forward is

going to involve a whole lot of work.

So, what can you do? Is there anything in your field as an arborist that you can do on the side?

Um probably. I would just need tools for it. Uh cuz right now my company supplies all the tools and I'd have to go out and buy all that stuff. So, that's kind of why I'm hesitant to do something like that. >> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What can you do that doesn't require you to buy tools?

Um You're breaking up on us.

Sorry about that. Um I could work overtime. Boom. How much?

>> Yeah. Uh I could probably get an extra hour or two a day. Okay, but let's What What else? What I'm getting at is I want you to think outside of the box of well, I'm an arborist and I usually use my company tools. So I'd have to go buy tools. No, well what other skill sets or if it's just manual labor, what can you do to make an additional $1,000 a month? That you don't have to

answer it on the air, but that's the homework exercise.

Right? >> Okay. Let's go make some more money and throw it at this debt because as a young guy, you have and George put you on the spot, you have you have all kinds of time. And the more you can work, the more money you make, the faster you get out of this. That's the mindset. What can I do? Where can I Can I sell something?

This kind of intensity gets you out of the situation. Can you cut down some trees? Can you do landscaping?

How wide is your skill set here?

Uh so it's it's between trimming and plant health care. So applying uh herbicides and uh fungicides, pesticides, things like that. >> Great. Those guys are knocking on doors all day long selling people. And so you can be doing that. You can jump on a Facebook group and say, "Hey, here's what I provide. I'm not going to rip you off. I know what I'm doing. I'm an actual arborist. Here's what I provide.

Here's my services." You do a few good jobs in the neighborhood. Now all of a sudden you got 14 homes in the neighborhood that you're taking care of.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

I do, yeah. I mean, we just had a storm come through Nashville, Ken. The amounts of money people were charging just to remove a tree branch was astronomical.

>> I had to cut one of my trees down. There you go. Of course I did. Where were you, Robert? So you see what we're getting at here? Get creative with the skills you have and if that runs out of steam, you can always do, you know, some of the side gig economy stuff, but you're going to make way more doing the thing that you're already good at.

Well, I like that idea. So yes to overtime cuz right now at this at this rate, it's going to take you forever to pay off this debt.

Mhm. You only have a few hundred bucks a month if you're lucky to throw at the debt, right?

Yeah, yeah. But if we could throw two grand a month at the debt, now we're done in two years. Uh-huh. That's the math. So, that's your number is I need to find two grand worth of margin to throw at these debts, smallest to largest balance, attack the little one with a vengeance while making minimum payments on the rest. Once one balance is knocked out, frees up a payment, apply it to the next one. That's the debt snowball method.

I understand. Have you ever done a budget?

Uh not really, no.

>> Today is your lucky day, Robert. I'm going to hook you up with EveryDollar if you promise to use it. This is our budgeting app, and as you go through the onboarding experience, it's going to personalize recommendations to help you find more margin, just like I'm doing right now. It's going to do this on steroids all day long inside of the app making a plan for every dollar.

Are you in? Yeah, I'm in. All right. 24 months. That I hope you do it even faster than that, but 24 months is the final final final

cutoff. Make that a goal, find the margin, stick to it. Oh, to be young again, Ken, cuz when I was his age, that's what I was doing. I started here at 23.

I had $40,000 in debt. I wasn't making $40,000.

>> I did about 17 side hustles. I was building websites for entrepreneurs and speakers and authors. I was doing marketing consulting. I was driving for Uber, driving for Lyft on top of cutting my groceries down to the bone. >> How many hours a week were Do you remember how many hours you were doing?

Uh it was at least two hours every night when I got home from work, and then I would go heavier on the weekends, try to knock out six hours a week.

>> additional money were you making per month as a result of all of this?

>> I probably made an extra 25 grand my first year of just just in side hustles alone. That's huge. That's huge. It's very doable. >> Possible. And the younger you are, the less responsibilities you have, even better.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> All right, let's go to Daniel in Chicago. Daniel, how can we help?

Hi. Yes, my my father has a term life policy that he's considering canceling. There's 10 years left on the policy. My mother passed away in September, so he no longer has my mother to provide for and he's always had a

little bit of a strange relationship with life insurance. And so So he's highly considering canceling that policy and I'm just trying to get him the best advice on whether that is a wise decision now or not.

He's doesn't have anyone else at home. You know, my my mom was the only other person there and so I'm just looking to give him the best advice I can on whether he should keep that policy or let it go. Yeah, tell me about the the weird relationship. I didn't know you could have a weird relationship with term life insurance.

He has from from his father and and from his

bringing up. You know, my my grandfather never had life insurance.

It's always been seen as something of you know, people getting rich off of your death type of mentality. He's he's

changed that view a little bit over the years. I think your show has helped him with that and and he does understand that it's to help provide for your family if you were to pass type of thing.

Now he's He is 65 years old. All right and what

is his net worth?

That's a little tough to say. I mean I think he estimated it somewhere around

the 350 to 400k when when he said it was

all said and done.

That is his entire estate, his retirement, everything.

That's that's that's what he's told me he estimates it at. >> And what's the face value of the policy?

$250,000

I'll tell you right now it's a steal of a deal.

Cuz that's half of his net worth right there. Does he still have any debts? Any mortgage?

No, his only debt is one car payment that that he continues to pay on but the house estate and everything else has been paid off. Okay.

Well, the rule of thumb with life insurance is it exists to replace your income to cover the people who need it.

And you're saying that there's no one who needs it at this point. The kids are grown and gone. They're doing well on their own. Um He has enough assets to cover final expenses, burial, the debts, all of that is what you're saying?

I the as far as what he's communicated to me, yes, he does uh he does have that. I think my my one main concern is

he has talked about dating in the future

where there would be somebody that uh might be in the uh might be in the picture in the future. That's a great reason to hold on to it. Cuz if he gets rid of it now, he's going to have a real tough time getting it again, especially for the rate he's paying.

How much is he paying per month?

$80. Oh my god. Okay, what's his income?

Uh roughly about 50,000 uh a year. Okay.

So, as a as a part of his world, it's not much. It's very reasonable, especially for a guy his age.

Um it's not a huge policy, if we're going to be honest. We recommend 10 to 12 times your income.

And so, if he makes 50, it should be a a half million-dollar policy or more. And he's got 250. So, he's got half of as much as he needs, but again, he doesn't fully need it. Uh what he needs is a bigger nest egg. And uh unfortunately, he's not going to be able to get that out of the insurance policy.

So, if I'm in his shoes, I would personally keep it for the peace of mind. Cuz if you look at the actual math on this, we're talking he's paying 960 a year for 10 more years, right? Yes. So,

what we're really saying is is it worth the risk transfer? If something were to happen to me from 65 to 75, there would be a $250,000 payout to the beneficiary for the low

low price of 9,600 bucks.

Correct. You see So, when I put it in those terms, I go, that's a good buy.

I would hang on to that, not knowing what the future holds, not knowing if I'm going to get remarried one day. 10 years is a long time.

That's That's been my advice to him. Um

he has just been hesitant to take that advice uh mostly because he feels that he should take that uh extra thousand dollars a year and invest it into something so it's guaranteed return even though it's not as big of a return. Got it. At what age did your mother pass?

She was 63 years old. Wow. Was it health

reasons? Yeah, she died of lung cancer. Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry.

Thank you. Well, that would put things in perspective for me going we're not promised tomorrow. I mean, he's 65 not 25 and so the chances go up over time

that he could pass and so I hope he lives a very long life. 30 more years and the policy lapses and he goes, "Wow, that was a waste of 9600 bucks." I would love for us to be looking back in hindsight having never used it. That's sort of the goal with term life is that you never have to use it. And that's the point of insurance.

I don't want to have to use my car insurance, but I sure as heck isn't I'm going to have it. So, I can't make the decision for him, but I would find 80 bucks elsewhere to go invest and he should be investing.

And Daniel, again, we we talk about this all the time on much bigger issues, much stickier issues than this. It's very difficult for um an adult to convince or persuade

their parent to do something. You can advise, you can give some ideas, uh but

other than that, you got to let it go. And and he's going to decide. I think your winning point is, "Hey, you mentioned wanting to date and that could turn into something, then this would be a good thing to have." I think George's point on that is probably the best case you can make for him why he should keep it. Um because again, it it's just not that much money.

Right. That's barely going to cover the coffin, man. You got to have 10 to 12 times your annual income, 15, 20-year level term policy. And the people that I have mine through, Ken has his through his Zander insurance.

You can jump on his zander.com and just knock this out. It really is not that difficult. Some of these now can >> The policies are no medical exam. You can literally do it online if you're in good health.

>> that right? >> If it's under a million dollars and you're in good health, uh there's a lot of these that where you don't even need to get your blood >> the old uh the nurse. I've had to do that. shows up, takes the blood panel.

>> even that is is just really not a problem.

They come in, they do the thing, and you got peace of mind. And by the way, it does not increase your chances of dying if you get term life insurance. You're going to it's the same exact chances regardless. >> And I got three kids, a wife.

I put a pretty good amount on me. I I I sleep with one eye open. >> enough in there that you're a little bit worried. I like that, Ken.

>> Stacy, "Don't get any ideas here." All right.

Oh, I like that. >> that? >> I love a clause. I >> [laughter] >> What can I say?

You like a clause where you're the main part of it. >> Well, I have to imagine if I'd have done that with Zander >> Is there a way to put George Camel in this that uh he comes in, he's got a lot of questions, he's very suspicious. Uh there's enough money in here to handle George hiring a private investigator, and you would then determine whether or not Stacy gets the money.

>> I think I may ask him if I can write you into that. That could be great.

>> Stranger things have happened. I'm sure a lot of people are leaving me as beneficiary on their term life and in their wills [laughter] for all I've done for all >> Now, that's a really dumb question. But let me tell you about good questions. People are flooding to Ask Ramsey, uh

our free AI tool that's built and trained on our proven Ramsey principles.

And today, George, we're going to break down the most asked question from this week. Are you ready? Uh the main question is, what are the best strategies for paying off debt while maintaining a good credit score?

>> Interesting. Okay, well, I'll tell you my take on this. You start by making a budget, save a thousand dollars, start an emergency fund, list all your debts except your mortgage from smallest to largest balance regardless of the interest rate, and pay minimum payments on all the debts except the smallest one, knock it out quick, move on to the next debt. And by the way, I cheated. That was from Ask Ramsey.

Joke's on you guys. >> See, it actually does. Life is an open-book test. Why would I not utilize the tool at hand?

>> And Ask Ramsey is is is playing off of what we say on the air. And here let's talk about the credit score angle. It hits this, too. For your credit score, it may dip a little as you pay off debt and close accounts, but that's okay.

The goal is financial freedom, not a good credit score. So, [music] I love this comment. Can Can I read this to you real quick? saw this in the Ramsey Facebook group.

Donald said, "It has answered some very obscure questions I've had for a long time. I listened to about five total years of Ramsey shows and try to hear some situations, but this tool can answer them right away for your specific situation." >> There it is.

You can't miss it, right there at the top, Ask Ramsey. Or you know, I like to send you to the show notes, folks, because >> down there. >> there's just good stuff in the show notes. Click the link.

>> [music]

>> When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I can never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain." But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's It's hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it, like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation, and every day it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today.

Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain.

Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Tax season is upon us. To get free checklists and guides that will help you file, make sure that you go to ramseysolutions.com/taxes.

ramseysolutions.com/taxes.

All right, let's go to Josh in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Josh, how can we help?

Yes, hi. Can I hear me? Just want to make sure you can hear me. >> Yes, we hear you well.

>> it's an honor it's an honor to to be here on the show with you guys. Y'all are awesome. Thank you for what you do.

How can we help? >> So, my question is uh my dad's going to be calling me here shortly, and I need some help with communicating with him without overstepping as being the son.

Okay. Um he's going to be giving me good news that he's retiring after 6 years with the company, and he wants to take out his whole retirement and pay off the house, which I'm okay with.

It's not really a house, it's a mobile home. And um he has a lot of other debt,

though. Like a lot of other debt. Cars,

um a lien on my house um Why is he retiring? Like a lot

He wants to go to another company.

Um he said he offered he was offered a job today. Okay, so he's not retiring. He's switching jobs.

Yeah, but I just wish he would take the money and maybe move it to another account. It's $70,000 is all it is, but it's all he's got. But what is it? Is it in a 401k?

It's in a single stock.

With the company? Yikes. Oh, okay. So it's really not retirement money. It's just he's got stock in the company.

Right. Yeah, it's not Is it trapped in a retirement account or is it a non-retirement account buying stock up from the company like an employee stock purchase program? >> Yeah. Yes. Yeah, it's like a stock option, so he can cash out. Okay, so he has a lean

on his mobile home.

Yeah, from my understanding like he he wasn't really up front with me about well, about my wife about it. He had just talked to her at lunch and he's going to be calling me cuz I just got off work. >> Oh, I see. So he's all excited.

>> [laughter] >> Feel like he could ring in while we're talking to you. This is like fresh. Oh, man. So you don't want to be a buzzkill going, "Dad, congrats and don't do this really dumb thing." Yeah, I'm I'm just having a little struggling moment right now.

>> Well, what's his total debt?

What's his total debt?

Um It's $800 on the house for sure. Uh he's got He just rolled over the car twice, so I don't even want to know how much that brand new car is. >> negative equity twice.

Yes. >> Oh my gosh. >> And then um he's got a bunch of credit card debt that I know of. Well, he's going to get taxed. So let's let's reframe this. Let's reframe this. I appreciate you calling us about this, but we need to reframe this whole thing because your dad is excited. He's so excited he

called your wife at lunch today. Right. Okay? This is hilarious. And he's coming into some money, and he's excited, and he's 62

years old. And he's made a bunch of boneheaded decisions with money. All right, let's just Can we pour all that into the cup cuz that's the cocktail we're dealing with, all right? And you got to think through this. And as an objective bystander, you called say, "What's your opinion?" This is my take, okay?

Um all you can do is ask him some really good questions. I

Their questions are better than suggestions. When we're talking about our dad who's excited about cashing out

and has made a bunch of bonehead decisions. You Would you agree with that?

Yes. Okay. So, questions like And

George, you jump in here, popcorn it.

But some questions are, "Hey Dad, are you aware how much you're going to have to pay in taxes on that stock?" I'd start with that.

Right? Right. >> And who knows what he's going to say.

But that that question versus a suggestion is it's your best chance of

allowing him to think through some stuff that he may not think through, and you're not making a suggestion. As you Or if you said, "Uh Dad, um you know, you're going to you're going to pay this in taxes, so here's what I think you ought to do. Boom boom boom boom." And he's like, "Hey man, I just called to hear you say, 'Congrats.'" So, questions, not suggestions. That would be my advice.

First question I would ask is, "Dad, are you aware what the tax implications What are you going to Do you know what you're going to pay in taxes on that?" And hopefully he registers, "Oh, so I'm not walking away with $70,000 or whatever it is. I'm going to end up walking away with this." And then you go, "What are you thinking about doing with that money?" And then when he tells you what he what he's going to tell you, then you can ask some other questions. I just think if it's the son, that's about all you can do.

>> not going to be able to force him to do anything, but if you can scare him into it or excite him into something, that's a better route.

Um the the main question is finding out if this is in a retirement account or in a brokerage account, cuz that vastly, you know, changes the advice here. If it either way, we want to get out of this single stock. That is very risky. If it's in a brokerage account, it's simpler cuz like Ken said, there's going to be some capital gains taxes and that's it versus early withdrawal penalties on top of income tax, which is going to be a whole lot more.

But let me show you the math on this. If he just left the 70 grand, he rolled it over to a rollover IRA, so direct rollover never withdraws the money, but rolls it over to an IRA in his control, sells the stock inside of that and buys diversified mutual funds, now we're talking. And now you'll see an 11% return over the long haul. So from 58 to 68, if he does that, his 70 grand turns into over 200 grand.

That's pretty wild, right?

That is wild. And I just I I kind of know that. I've Pull up the calculator.

Show it. Say, "Hey, hey uh I talked to my financial advisor about your situation cuz I was curious as to what they would say." Cuz now it's not just your opinion against his.

You brought a professional into it and said, "Hey, I I talked to this guy. He thinks uh you really need to be thinking about the taxes on this and the implications of unplugging of the compound growth, the withdrawal penalties, and it would be a much wiser use to use your future income to pay down this debts, pay down the mobile home instead of robbing your retirement early." Because here's what it will turn into if you just left it alone and never added a dime.

See, now we're equipped with some facts.

We're we're not leaning into just anger or emotion. It's just very calm, very much you love him, you want the best for him, you have no skin in the game here, you would you would treat him like like he was a friend of yours.

So, the question is does he respect your your opinion enough?

Oh.

>> [laughter] >> There's your answer.

We've uh We've been Dave Ramsey fans for a while, you know. >> Who? I follow >> Not him? I follow me and my Yeah, me and me and my wife and >> Oh, okay. I was like, you and your dad?

Okay. Yeah, I mean, we already got the answer. When you ask someone, "Does he respect your opinion?" and your answer is >> [sighs] >> I mean, that's like a whole paragraph.

And that's where the third sound I think the third party angle, based on what you said, is the best route to go. Of, "Hey, I really This is a big decision. I'm so excited for you. This is a huge next chapter of your life. And I just thought I'd bounce it off of a friend of mine who's a financial advisor, and he's got no skin in the game. He just had this to say." And then you share everything we've talked about. >> Yeah, but I would calculate it. Yeah, ask questions, though. Ask questions.

You Listen, he can't get defensive if you're just asking questions. Yeah, but yes, but that's the right kind of question. In other words, don't ask a question where he feels pinned in. Just be like real light.

Like as soon as the call comes in, just go, "Okay, I don't want to tell Dad. I don't want to tell Dad. I don't want to tell Dad. I want to ask ask ask and I want to just be low-key, light, and let's just see where it goes from there." Because the minute Listen, after your long sigh and you reaching for the words to answer the question, "Does he respect your opinion?" I already know where this is at.

And and this is really hard. And by the way, I'm going through this in a different level. My parents are in great financial shape, but my parents are 75 and 74.

of life that when we they get to this age, and your dad's younger, I understand, but still, it's like the parent becomes the child.

And the child becomes a parent. And that's just life. And so, you've got to honor, but still keep a boundary there. And uh I catch myself all the time kind of saying something in a way that I go, "Well, I that was a little bit like, you know." It's a just be really careful here because it's his life, his mistakes.

There's only so much you can do. >> you can sleep well knowing you said your peace. And you make this the Oreo method here, all right? The top layer is, "Dad, I'm so excited for you.

>> [music]

[music]

>> It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But, here's a

better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way they can

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to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day is Proverbs 9:9. Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still. Teach the righteous and they will add to their learning.

Our quote today from one of Georgia's favorite entertainment icons, Joan Rivers. A classic. [music] People say that money is not the key to happiness, but I always figured if you have enough money, you can have a key made. That's actually pretty good.

>> [sighs] >> Thank you, Joan. >> The late Joan Rivers. >> Yes. Zachary is up in Springfield, Michigan. Zachary, how can we help?

Hi. Hey, Ken. Hey, George. Hey, appreciate you guys taking my phone call. Sure. Yeah, I was wondering wondering if you guys could share some advice or or wisdom.

I so I've been reading the Bible lately.

It gets me thinking if my wife and I are are being generous enough at the moment.

But I I know the Bible talks about tithing and I'm wondering if that's the best approach when I'm on Baby Steps 4 through 6.

Baby Steps 4 through 6 and you said you're tithing and you're saying is that enough? You're doing 10% of your income?

>> No. No. No, I I know the Bible talks about tithing. I'm currently giving about 1 and 1/2 to 2% of my 1 and 1/2

gross income, 2% take home pay. Well, what do you believe? >> I'm wondering if Let's just Well, but this is This is so so if you're going to come at this from a biblical point of view, then it comes down to what the Bible says, what do you believe it says? Cuz a lot of people have a lot of different opinions about a lot of different parts of scripture.

Uh and so and so ultimately, you know, we can't tell you if you're giving enough, but I can ask you a few questions. So, the first question is, do you believe in tithing?

It's [clears throat] something that I that I definitely want to work up to.

Yeah. ask you that. Do you think because I didn't ask you that. >> Yeah, no, I Yeah, I do believe in tithing. I don't think the Bible would mention it as many times I Okay. So, so so there's that

standard. Again, you didn't call and I'm not preaching at you, but you called and you asked based on reading the Bible, and so that's between you and God as to how you take obedience on that particular issue.

Okay? So, you don't need me to you know, preach at you. So, you've already stated, well, I do believe I should be tithing. I'm not now. I I believe I should I'm going to work up to it, but again, that's that's up that's your deal. Uh I do believe in the tithe and I think that you should and so that's a baseline. And many people in different

sects of the faith still believe that

there's a tithe and an offering.

And again, the offering is above and beyond the tithe and that's between you and God as well. Okay? So,

without getting into a theological, you know, foundational lesson or some type of debate, you get to answer, am I giving enough?

That you get to answer that. We don't.

>> of the heart. Yeah.

So, I'm not trying to evade your your question, but that's as as solid as I can answer that.

You have to decide. >> Yeah. Right. I I I think the I think maybe a more specific question is if if that would apply to people of all ages, of all incomes.

Yes. >> I mean we're we're in a financial good situation right now where like let's say I I did want to go about tithing right now. You go from 1.5% up to 10%. It would just kind of slow down, you know, what I'm what I'm putting into like the brokerage right now, which is in the future going to be for a house and then also like for retirement.

We're I mean we are looking into saving for Well, >> uh children's college soon. Here's what I would tell you to do. Okay?

Uh buy a book or two on tithing. Go listen to some sermons on tithing, and I think you're going to hear a consensus. And if Dave were sitting here, and I'm not going to try to quote Dave, but if he were sitting here, uh I'm pretty certain he would say that that's the wrong mindset to look at tithing. That if I tithe, it's going to slow down my financial progress.

He would say, "If you tithe and you give, you will receive more blessing." And it doesn't mean it's dollar for dollar, so that's bad theology. I'm not saying that. But this idea, and George, I want you to weigh in on this as well.

tithe and and give a tenth of my

increase, my income to the Lord who blesses me with it, it's his money, I'm not going to be slowed down at all.

But again, that's that's a spiritual

mindset in believing in what the Bible says about tithing. I want to bring George in. George, what am I missing? >> what you said, uh Pastor Ken. And I want to add to that. I'll be taking an offering, by the way, at the end of the uh show. So stay tuned. >> this, I feel like it's actually a really good spiritual challenge for you.

Because what we're really saying is you see it as a finite pie. If I take this slice away, then I don't have that slice for XYZ. For the house, for the kids.

And I think what's so cool about the Bible is it's outside of a pie. It's We can't look at it in finite when you're talking about the infinite, right? And so, we can't think of it like, "If I give 10%, I won't have enough to pay off the mortgage." I think what you'll find is when you are obedient, when you are faithful, you never lack. You are given

enough to manage.

And uh I can throw some verses for you to to look up later. You can watch this back. Proverbs 3:9 and 10. Honor the Lord with your wealth, with the first fruits of all your crops, then your barns will be filled to overflowing.

Your vats will brim over with new wine.

Malachi 3:9 and 10. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse. Not 1 and 1/2%. Whole tithe.

that there may be food in my house. Test me in this, says the Lord Almighty. Woo, them fighting words. And see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it.

And finally, Matthew 6:26. I love this one. Look at the birds. They don't plant or harvest or store food in barns for your heavenly Father feeds them.

So, I think at the heart of this, it's a scarcity versus abundance spiritual challenge, Zachary. And this is You are not alone in this. I struggle with this.

This is still It's still something I'm figuring out and grappling with because it doesn't make sense on paper.

Right? But I think if you can learn to live on the 90 of what God has blessed you with, which I assume you have a great income, right? What's your household income?

Uh so so gross is about about 101.

That's a pretty fabulous income anywhere in America. Would you agree?

Yeah. Yeah, no, it's it's it's enough for us. And [laughter] how much And how much are you putting away? Are you right at the 15% in baby step four?

Uh I I was doing the math. It's closer to 20%. Uh it's I mean, overall retirement we're putting about 27 Okay.

a little over 27,000. 27%. So, now you're going You're going 12% extra above what we teach, and you're having a hard time giving 10%.

Oh, no, I'm sorry. It's 27,000. So,

Oh, actually, 27,000 out of your 101?

Oh, yeah. No, yeah. I get it. Yeah, that's That's 27%. 27%. I didn't have to take my shoes off. That was easy math.

Here's my challenge for you.

You try it You try it for a month. Try it for a month. If your life is worse and you hate it and you're going to retire broke because of it, you can uh you can go back to the way you were doing it. But I think what you'll find is that when you're spiritually challenged, you will actually mature, and you will find that you lack for nothing.

That's my That's going to be my hypothesis in this fun social experiment. So, Zachary, you call us back and let us know how it goes. But, I I think there's there's room to tithe. I mean, you read about the the widow giving her last pennies.

You are concerned about tithing the 10%

because you feel it's going to slow you down in these other areas. And then we dig into the Baby Steps 4, and we recommend 15%

of your income towards retirement, and you're doing 27%. So, there is fear driving all of this. You are afraid if I tithe, I won't be able to do as much as I'd like to do over here.

And we've got a tried-and-true system, and we say 15% is enough, and George can run through the investment calculator all day long till he's blue in the face.

So, what we're getting out of this is is that you're really afraid.

And fear is not a good driver for any decision. Would you agree with that?

Yeah, no, that's fair. There is definitely some anxiety of like currently given like I said both 1,500 a year. Here's what I want you to do, extra homework. Okay, George George gave you some verses. I want you to do a little Bible study tonight or tomorrow while it's fresh on worry.

What does the Bible say about worry? Be anxious for nothing. That one comes to mind. >> Ooh, George, you are all over it today.

I mean, you you got you you pulled up a concordance over there. >> I got my concord. I love a concord.

>> could play a keyboard, I would have noodled underneath of you while you were See, you can play the keys, can't you?

>> I can hit a nice chord. You'd be you'd you'd I can fake it. Well, if I put an acoustic guitar on you, you could have uh There we go. We can >> you call that? >> altar call? No, it's if if noodling is on the keys, what's the What do you call the equivalent? Ah, don't quiz me on that. >> Strumming? Strum while I preach? All right. Speaking of Speaking of preaching. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's [music] to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [cheering] >> The Ramsey Show Live is your chance to actually [music] be part of the show. Ask your burning question live.

>> Finally win that money argument in your house. [music] If my mom occasionally asked us to borrow money. >> That's a no all the way around. I'm a spender, [music] he's a saver. >> I'm a tightwad at heart. How many tightwads are out there? Thank you for making yourselves known. You do a pre-pre-nup? What's a pre-pre-nup? I don't know. I thought there'd be something. [laughter] The Ramsey Show Live is your chance to be in the room with other people that are on the same journey as you.

>> There's always something you can do to better your situation.

>> We don't sell magic wands. And so that person in the mirror, they are really the secret sauce. They are the solution.

I'm really, really proud of you. It's awesome. >> That's pretty fun. You guys are great.

The Ramsey [music] Show Live, one night only, coming to a city near you.

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## 71. Focused Intensity Is The Only Way To Make Financial Progress | November 19, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. [music] From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm George Camel, joined by my pal Dr.

John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225.

You jump in, we'll talk about your money and your life. Cassandra kicks [music] us off in Toronto. What's going on, Cassandra?

>> Hello, gentlemen. How are you today?

>> We are doing great. What ails you today?

How can we help?

>> Nothing ails me. Um, I am a domestic

abuse survivor. Um, and it was uh

majority was financial abuse.

So, >> how long ago was this?

>> Six years. >> Wow. >> Yeah. It was the scariest best thing I

ever did for me and my three children

>> to get to leave get out of that mess.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, it was um Yeah. Thank you. you know, I I started with nothing and I've built everything and now um I

it's kind of crazy to call in about this. I'm making about $8,000 a month.

>> Congratulations. >> And thank you. Honestly, I work

full-time. I go to school full-time and I'm a single mom. So, you just keep going, you know. you're like it's it you're at a place if you if you haven't already take a moment and just go outside >> and um just like be proud of yourself

because you couldn't have imagined this six years ago when you were scared to death and you were taking a leap into nothingness, right? And so >> yeah, >> man, it's you're a you're a lighthouse for other women trapped in similar situations. So congratulations.

>> Thank thank you very much. So my challenge right now is I want to give my

kids the world. I've been um about two

years ago I realized that I wanted to change family patterns. You know, both of my parents are in their 60s and they don't have anything and there's so much debt and so in the last two years I paid

off about $40,000 worth of debt.

>> Very cool. Awesome.

>> Thank you. And um I'm trying now the

last thing is my car. I owe about 17.

It's worth about 20. Um so I'm trying to

maintain a budget and stay on budget,

but I want to give my kids everything, right? Everything we didn't have, everything, you know, everything I'm fighting for. >> You have to. >> You have. >> Yeah. >> No, no, no, no.

>> You have.

You've given them everything. And everything is not a bunch of presents under the tree.

Everything is a mom who is well.

Everything is a mom who is like doing

the next right thing for the stability and safety of herself and for her family. You've given them everything.

You just have to be able to look in the mirror and say, "I'm enough.

Right. >> I know. Yeah. Yeah.

>> It's it's hard. There's so much emotion

around money >> and I just can't. And then it doesn't matter how >> hard I'm fighting. It just feels like it's never enough. The economy is so hard. >> Stop fighting. Stop fighting. Stop fighting. Stop fighting. Stop fighting. You have a picture of they're going to be happier when you have a bunch of stuff under that tree, right?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And that stuff under the tree for

you as a little girl was a proxy for a

house that wasn't so full of chaos and so full of angst around money around whatever. And you thought if I could have those things under the tree, if I could have that toy I don't have that shirt that I don't I can't afford or my parents can't afford or won't buy me that then I'll be okay. Those presents are a proxy for [sighs] we have a house full of peace, which is is something that every child is so so desperate for. And you've given it to them.

They have it. They have everything.

They've got a regulated mom. They don't have their dad in their life, right? Cuz he walked away, but when it comes to the

ability to breathe in their own home, you've given them that.

I'm so proud of you. I can I can I I'd hug you if you're here. What do you actually want to give them? Cuz everything is a big vague word. The economy is a big vague word. You're using impossible terms. So, what's the budget you want to use for Christmas to buy some gifts?

>> Like last year it was ridicul. I think it was like $500 a kid. And then this year, you

know, I'm just really I really want to make change and make waves. And that involves sacrifice. And so I've cut it down to like $250, but it just seems

like >> How old are the kids?

>> Um 15, 10, and nine.

>> All right, so I want to tell you something. I grew up with not a lot.

Okay, in fact, somebody one time a family broke into or several families broke into our house and put presents under our tree. Okay, that's the house I grew up in.

When I joined this team and my financial

life transformed, I did the I went I'm I'm ahead of you a little bit. Okay. I went crazy when it came to Christmas.

>> Yeah. >> And it was my wife saying like, "Hey, we got to stop." Right. And so last uh two

years ago, I took my son out. He's 15 now. So he was 13 at the time. And I took him out and said, "Hey, I have gotten out of control of Christmas.

Christmas is going to look different this year. You're going to get two or three really nice things that and I want you to give me a list, right? And I'll do what I can on the little knick-knack things, but it's going to look different. And you know what my 13-year-old said to me over breakfast at a Waffle House in rural Tennessee? You know what he said to me? He smiled and said, "That's awesome, Dad. I don't think you can."

And he already knew, "Oh, that's buying a bunch of stuff for him, not for us." He already knew. He's a He's a teenager.

He was an eighth grader. And he already could sense all these presents are for old men, not for us. Now, he's going to take my stuff. He's going to take all the cool stuff.

That's cool. But you taking your 15-year-old out. I mean, you're you're all three of them out and saying, "I've been scratching and clawing, and I have this fantasy in my head that y'all will only like me if there's tons of presents. I've got to be a better steward of this money this year.

But Christmas is going to look different this year. And I'm almost going to guarantee you that they'll they'll be like, "Mom, we're good. We're good, Mom." And if they don't, if they're like, "That's ridiculous." Well, they're 13. Good grief.

They're supposed to say stuff like that. You get you get what I'm saying? And they have no concept of what things cost. And so that's another piece of the puzzle.

For better and for worse, they go, "Well, I want a PS5 and I want, you know, a $10 pair of shoes." You're like, "Okay, well, those aren't two things that go together." And so I would set a budget and that becomes how much we can spend on Christmas. And so it doesn't matter what they want. It's what you can actually afford that dictates what happens this Christmas.

I saw a great video and the mom asked her daughter, "Hey, what did you get for Christmas last year?" The daughter blinked. She couldn't think of one thing. And she said, "Where did we go on vacation last year?" He said, "Like Tahoe." Immediately. And so you've got to think in terms of what are they going to remember?

It's probably not a thing that's going to end up in a closet or at Goodwill 6 months from now or two years from now.

And you free yourself when you take your kids out and you have this conversation with them. You're free because you're right now there's a cloud. There's a secret that you think they will only

feel good if you do X, Y, and Z. Take them out and just paint them a picture. This year I'm going to be different. and give them that opportunity. But in that in in in that conversation, you're going to free yourself. Ah, and like George said, can

most kids >> uh we'll run up on a Yeah, we'll run up on a clock. So, um, go have that hard conversation, have it direct, and free yourself.

[music]

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[music]

Bri is in Phoenix. Up next, Bri, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. What's going on?

You know, I guess I'm looking to find out if I made a dumb house decision or if I'm house poor. Um I am newer to the

Ramsay show and doing a budget and I

feel like I don't have enough money uh to do what I want, of course, but I um

you know, it seems like there's just not enough money at the end of the month.

>> That's a real problem. What do you make?

>> I make yearly. I make good money. I think I make 120.

>> Yeah, that's good money where I come from. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And what's your take home pay every month?

>> Yeah. Take home's not as good. Obviously, I put 401k money and stuff, but in my benefits and but I I take home my base salary is 5,400 a month that I bring home. >> Okay.

>> And my commissions range so much. That's the that's the hard thing. I'm having a hard time doing the budget. I'm newer to the budget, but it could be anywhere from a thou like this month I got $1,000.

For six or five months I didn't get any at all. >> Okay, let's pretend that's gravy on top.

>> Uh so what is your mortgage? >> What do I want to do?

>> 2,000 a month.

>> Okay, that's not out of control. I mean, it's a it's a big portion of your base take-home, but we're not going to factor in your 401k contributions into that.

And so if you just look at your after tax income but before other deductions like healthare 401k the parameter we use

is 25%.

>> And so I don't think it's just the mortgage alone doing this. I think there's some other factors here uh including other debt. Do you have any other consumer debt? >> Yes. >> Yes. I have um well, all right, I have $300 as the HOA a month, which is a lot, I think. But um I have a car loan that's

$500.

I have about $40,000 in consumer debt,

like credit cards and a like a loan that I consolidated. >> Okay, >> 40,000.

>> So, let's let's picture this world for Bri. Let's say that you got rid of all of the consumer debt, the car loan, the credit cards, all of that, the consolidation loan. Do you think you could breathe easier, cover all your bills, and have some leftover?

>> You even saying that makes me feel better. >> Good. That's a world That's a world that's very much available to you. It's at your fingertips here if you just utilize this great income you have and start focusing on one thing instead of seven good things. Cuz, you know, investing for retirement is a great thing. Paying off debt is a great thing.

Owning a home is a great thing. You've chosen to do it all at once, which is why you feel overwhelmed.

Mhm. >> So, let's just picture you pausing your 401k contributions. What percentage of your income are you currently contributing?

>> I think I lowered it to six. It was 10.

>> Okay. Well, that's $7,200 a year that could be going towards paying down that debt.

>> You see what I just did there?

>> Yep. Yes. >> We just created some margin for Bri. And remember, this is temporary. How old are you?

>> I'm almost 60. >> Okay. So, can we picture Bri on her 62nd

birthday completely debtree now maxing

out retirement instead of having to ratchet it down?

>> Yeah, I could picture that.

>> That's the future I'm I'm seeing as well. And so what this looks like is taking down your 401k, cutting your spending to the bone for 18 months max is what I'm thinking. Probably less cuz you have a great income, especially with those bonuses. If you pretend those bonuses don't exist and anytime it comes in, you throw it right at the debt, the smallest debt in front of you, you're going to be debtree really quickly.

Agreed. >> Wow. Well, it sounds good coming from you. [laughter] >> I'm a good salesman.

I guess >> sounds so good. >> It's your life. I'm just pointing I have all the puzzle pieces in front of me and I'm going, "Hey, if you just move this over here, you could be debtree pretty fast." And that's the debt snowball method. That's going, "Hey, we're not going to contribute to retirement.

We're going to take our savings down to a,000 bucks. We're going to throw everything we can at our smallest debt. Once it's knocked out, throw everything we can at the next smallest debt while making minimums on the rest of the debts. And if you do it that way, I'm telling you, you will be debtree in 12 to 18 months making what you make.

>> Oh my god. Wow. I never even thought I'd get through on the call. I'm so excited to talk to you and that you did you just made me feel better cuz Yeah.

Now I feel stupid cuz I I stupid people don't get paid $120,000 break. >> I know. I'm so proud of that. Hard to get up to that.

>> I do too. I do too.

>> But listen, I want you I want you to hear what George said. >> We don't care about the interest rates.

>> We don't care about the the shame you

feel on one thing versus the other.

We're going to take every debt you have.

And in fact, I don't want you to do it on a computer. I want you to go old school and put on a yellow pad.

>> Write down everybody you owe in the world. parents, friends, banks, car

notes, the the consolidation loan, all of them. Write it down in in smallest to largest.

And then we're just going to attack it.

This is in your case, this is 95% psychology.

>> Oh my gosh. So, I did get it that way with the 40 the credit card or whatever it is. It's it's all together. That's one bill and then the car is another.

So, would I when I get these bonuses, bang, which one out? the one that >> doesn't whatever one is lowest.

>> Whatever the smallest balance is, it's the only number you're looking at. >> It's the only one you care about.

>> Wow. >> And we're going to And here's what you're going to get. You're going to get a whole bunch of little wins.

And if you have one big giant chunk at the end, like you have the big $40,000

like cloud hanging over your head, >> here's what we're going to celebrate.

Every time you get that first number from 40 and you get it to $399.99,

that's a huge win. And then we're just going to try to get a two in front.

$299.99 and we're going to whittle that sucker down. The only question you need to ask yourself is this. You're going to be 62.

Okay. >> Do you want to be 62? I'm sure and listen. Yeah, that's fair. Um and owe nobody anything or do you want to be 62

a little more fried than you are right now? That's the choice. >> No, I want to be free and yeah, I work hard for my money and I want to celebrate myself. Never mind. You know what I mean? I have >> Celebrate yourself, not with another shiny thing you can't afford. Celebrate yourself with peace and freedom, which I think are the two most elusive things in American households today.

>> Thank you guys. I appreciate it. I really do. >> Okay, hang on. We're going to hook you up. We're going to hook you up. And I feel >> we're going to we're going to take care of you. Here's what we're going to send you. Number one, we're going to send you the digital FPU product. I want you to watch all nine videos at your house. And if you got kids still living with you, they have to watch it as a part of their rent. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> We're going to send them >> Thank you. That's awesome.

>> Oh, we're not done. I'm sending you more. You ready? >> I'm going to give you >> I love you.

>> George and I are going to give you a year of every dollar premium. It's a budgeting app >> and it's going to connect with your bank. >> So, you already have >> I have the regular one, but no, not that one. >> Upgrade.

We're upgrading you, okay? And we're going to pay for it. >> Thank you. But you got to promise that you will cut your spinning down to where people are going to think you're slowly losing your marbles.

>> I I love it. And I love a challenge.

>> I love it. I really do. And And my youngest son is He started it, too. And he's doing so good. He's doing better than me. And I'm in Beard. He's 21. He's 20 22 actually. I'm so proud of him for

doing it. So proud of him.

>> Let him see his mom do something like

radically hard for the next 18 months.

and that he will never My mom went back

and took her first community college class at the age of 42 and she graduated with her PhD at 57. You know what that did for me? It took away every excuse I could ever have in my life ever for I'm

too old. I can't change. I'm setting my way. She took it all off the table. And that's what you'll do for your son. You will show him in real time there is never the words I can't. That cannot be a part of his vocabulary because I watched my mom do it.

And that's all I care about is making my kids proud. I know they are proud of me.

>> This is changing your family tree right here in real time. >> Makes me feel ashamed. Yes. So, >> well, you got a built-in accountability partner now. >> So, he's watching. You're watching what he's doing. He's watching what you're doing. And that's the best thing. >> Will you make me one more promise?

>> Yes, I will. >> That when you pay off these debts and you're debtree, you'll call back in and we'll celebrate you. We'll do a debtree scream. >> Bet you. You bet. I I I will go right there so I can get in the booth.

>> I love it. All right. Hang on the line. We're going to Christian's um on the line here. He's going to hook you up with this stuff. >> I'm marking my calendar, Bri. 18 months from now, I'm going to be like, "Hey, Bri, you debtree yet? Where you at, Bri?

We got any more payments?" And I think the answer is going to be, "I've been debtree, dude. I've been done with this stuff. I got the emergency fund. I'm maxing out retirement." That's the future we want for Bri.

And I think you're going to get there. Proud of you for calling in. Love to see that kind of transformation. And in five minutes, your whole attitude just changed.

So imagine what the five months are going to look like as you actually implement this stuff. You're going to be like a live wire.

path to debt freedom. Thanks for calling in.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. And they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[music]

Nick is in Charlotte, North Carolina up next. What's going on, Nick? How can we help today? >> Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for having me on. >> Absolutely. >> Hey, so um there's a lot of backstory,

but married 13 years. I have three children, uh seven, four, and one. Um my

wife and I, we've been through a lot um with medical orals. It's led to um I

took on finances and um ended up kind of

drowning a bit. Um I did not disclose to her that we were in financial trouble um and thought I could work my way out of it. Um I'm in sales. My net monthly

income um is roughly $7,500.

We are currently in about $100,000 of

debt, consumer debt that consists of two personal loans, um, two auto loans and a

student loan. Um, I've been hemorrhaging

somewhere between5 to $7,000 a month cuz

I've not been able to have an honest conversation with my wife to disclose what's going on. So, we haven't changed our spending patterns. on Friday of last week, um God broke me and I surrender

surrendered it to him. Um I disclosed everything to her and um finally was

open and honest. Um she was incredibly gracious. But now as we are trying to restore, rebuild um and rejuvenate our

relationship um which has been an incredible couple of days. We do find ourselves in a crisis. Uh, we met with a Christian financial adviser last night who recommended a home equity line of credit to swap the $100,000 in um, consumer

debt to the home equity line of credit.

Um, we owe 330 on our house. It's worth about 530. Um, so to keep that 80% that

would get us to roughly the 100,000 to pay off the consumer. And then um, we are flipping our spending upside down.

We believe in the baby baby step approach. We're going to be pursuing that aggressively, but we wanted to know

our options. Is the only option to do this heliloc, potentially sell our house when the market is better in the, you know, summer spring um and have that paid off and be debtree uh and rent a home. Do we need to put the house for sale immediately uh and take that route or are there other strategies that you all would implement and recommend given

um the context of what I just outlined?

>> All right. So, George George is going to walk you through the money side of this and he's going to give you a super clear path. Okay? But I want you to hear me um

crystal clear also. Okay.

>> Okay. >> The chief emergency in your life

>> is not the debt.

>> Yes. >> The chief emergency in your life is what

I what I would call financial infidelity. You cheated on your wife.

Okay. And so the chief emergency in your in your in your life right now is restoring trust.

>> Yes. >> It's not and and here there's I'm going to parse it. It's not trying to make everything all okay and take away any more pain, frustration, fear in her

right away. It is restoring trust.

>> Absolutely. >> And when we when men of character like me, like you find ourselves, we have become somebody we never meant to be.

I've been down this road in my marriage, too. Okay.

The temptation is to run around and spend a whole bunch of energy trying to make everybody feel okay right now. And that gets us right back into yet another problem or two problems. Usually, we make it worse.

And so, the path you need to take now is yes, you'll have to deal with this debt emergency. It's a big big deal. But more

importantly is you have to bring your wife as a part of this brokenness and this submission that you that you mentioned. It is asking your wife what

does a path back to trust look like?

And not you now running around and almost shutting her to the side or bringing her along, but more dragging her along and saying, "I I'm going to

fix this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to go do this. I'm going to go to this. We're going to meet with this guy. I'm going to talk." It's saying, "What do you need to begin to feel safe and trust me again?" Okay, that's that is step number one.

That's the the the big neon sign flashing emergency in your life right now is restoration of trust. And then

it's probably going to be something along the lines of I want to have a budget meeting with you. I want to know where all our accounts are. Here's where our retirement is. Here's the account numbers.

Here's how to access it. Here's my cell phone. all those kind of things that reestablish trust at the step by step. I I'll call it the micro level that rebuilds a foundation that both of you can anchor into to go do what's going to be a couple of years of really hard work.

Okay, does that make sense what I'm saying? >> It does. >> Okay.

this from you and actually I tried to do a noble thing which is protect you, keep you safe, not worry you and in so doing I created a big big mess. And so here it is. It's on the table. You've done that.

I would hug you if you were here. Most men don't have the courage to do that. What you did was brave and good and right. And now it is realizing that the

healing process is going to be slower than you want it to be. And on the back end of this, your marriage will be so much stronger than you could have ever possibly imagined it. And you will be a man of character, not only in your words, but in in the actions. And she

will be able to anchor fully back into you. And you and vice versa. You get what I'm saying? >> I do. we are already seeing that already the just brokenness between the two of us which has been >> that's right >> um which has been beautiful so I appreciate you saying that and I >> hey part of this is and this is unpopular to say you addressing

what might also be an elephant in the room which is maybe she wasn't the safest person to sit down and talk about finances with maybe y'all were creating a dance where she didn't want to hear it or she wants to buy what she wants to buy and then so you're trying to solve it and you're trying to fix it and you're coming up with the scheme over here and doing it.

Who knows what the what the dance in your marriage is, but this allows that to all get put on the table over time.

>> Sure. Okay. Unless you're just a terrible, terrible human, which I'm not hearing at all. These things don't happen in a vacuum. They're co-created by two people in a marriage. And that's all that has to be put on the table. And if you just run out tomorrow and sell your house, you might band-aid over the math problem y'all have in front of you, but the problems in your marriage about trust and safety and do do we both relax

when we both see each other when we come home? That doesn't that just gets wallpapered over and it will show up somewhere else down the road. It it more magnified, right? Okay. So, >> George is going to walk you through this stuff. >> My uh burning commentary is on this Christian financial adviser. >> Yeah. Never talk to that person again. Ever. Ever. >> Listen, God loves all of his children.

They're made perfect in in his image and some of their cornbread's not done in the middle. [laughter] And so what he has suggested of you dumping dirty water into another vessel doesn't actually

solve the problem. Would you agree?

>> I don't love it. Uh I'm just >> What do you love about it? Cuz you're just moving the debt around and putting your home at double risk. >> Yeah. You you now took the the only safe place you and your wife have left and you've leveraged that >> and you made it into one giant pile that's even harder to pay off with a variable interest rate.

>> Yeah. So being underwater $5 to $7,000 a

month. And >> yeah, explain what what do you mean by you're hemorrhaging $7,000 a month. What does that mean? >> Well, a lot of that has to do with spending habits. So if we >> which has nothing to do with the debt and so that's what I'm trying to get at is Are you investing a dime right now?

uh 401k out of my paycheck.

>> And he didn't advise you to stop investing to get rid of the mess. >> He did. He did. Yeah, he he he did stop

he did recommend stop. >> Okay. So, if you paused all investing, you guys lived on nothing. Can you What's your mortgage payment?

>> Uh $2,82 a month. >> Okay, that's not the problem here. You can keep the house. What you need to do is use this income, pause your 401k investments, make sure you're not getting a refund on your taxes. You need that money back in your paycheck. Can you live off of $3,400 a month?

[gasps] >> Um, >> I'm just gonna show you the math. If you were able to do that, >> so if you've got math, then please show me. >> Here's the math. You make 90,000 net, right? If you stop investing, you're going to have even more. Probably closer to 100,000 net. If you put 50 of that towards your debt, you're debtree in two years. >> Tada. >> See the napkin math there?

>> Which leaves 40 or 50 to live off of.

Now, I don't know if that's reasonable to have your mortgage, your four walls covered, insurance, and minimum debt payments on that side, but >> but be unreasonable for 24 months.

>> Yeah, I think this is this could all be solved by you guys living like you're broke because news flash, you're broke.

So, it's an easy problem to solve when you make $100,000 net. You can knock this out in 2 years without taking on more debt just by doing that debt snowball method. If you say you believe in the baby steps approach, try it. Try it for a year.

If you don't make progress and you want to go take out more debt, then you can be my guest. But I'm telling you, man, you can be debtree in under two years if you follow this stuff, and your marriage is going to be better for it.

[music]

[music]

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[music]

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Start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. Kristen is in Buffalo, New York.

Up next. What's going on, Kristen?

>> Hi guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um I just have a question that I I think is pretty simple. Um my husband and I have paid off all of our debts except for we have his student loan. It's the last one. It's $63,000.

Um and it's in income driven repayment with a current monthly, you know,

payment of zero.

And we're thinking we'd like to refinance it to kind of force ourselves

to have to pay it. Um, I know that's like a weird mind like Jedi mind trick that we want to do, but um we're wondering if we're crazy if we should just pay through the student loan um

lender, which two of the loans, it's one loan, but there's four small ones. Um, two are 10,000, two are 20,000. A couple

of them have 5.2% interest and a couple have six. And with the with refinancing

or a personal loan to pay them, the interest would be higher. So, what good would refinancing do at this point?

>> It would I feel like it just kind loan just kind of hangs out there and and [clears throat] we have two goals. One is to be debtree, the other is to buy a home. Um, currently we know that because it's we've been told, you know, through our mortgage preapproval that the student loan isn't affecting our preapproval because it's a minimum payment of zero.

>> Okay. But um so we're kind of at this

this point where we know we need to buy a home eventually. Um but we also want

to kind of force ourselves to not just let this loan be sitting in the background just because even though it's accumulating interest the payment zero.

So >> we have a trusted Ramsay Pro who kind of said because of our ages it doesn't you know it would be okay to kind of be saving for a down payment and paying off this debt. Um >> how much do you guys make?

Total about 120 to 128 a year.

>> Okay. So, this debt could be gone in a year if you just hunkered down.

>> Yeah, we have about um 5,000 extra a month we could be putting on this debt.

>> So, the math they just laid out is perfectly there. 5,000 a month for 12 months, 60 grand. >> Yeah. >> So, the loan is done in 12 months. And that's without you guys. I mean, you could probably even scratch up a little more money, spend a little less, and make it happen faster, couldn't you?

>> For sure. Yep.

That's the plan is to move through it.

>> Trust myself. [laughter] >> Why don't you trust yourself?

>> Um, well, this loan is kind of not interfering with us.

>> But it is, but you're calling you're calling a national radio show to talk about this loan. I would say it's very much living in your head rentree.

>> Oh, it's totally living in my head. But we're also worried. What if the right house comes up and then >> listen, you guys jumped the gun trying to home shop with $63,000 of loans sitting on the other side? That loan isn't going away. In fact, the interest is just adding to it. And that loan isn't going away. So, it's it would light an extra fire under me to start making payments, not, you know, $0, not

$100, but $5,000 a month payments on this to knock it out in the next 12 months. >> We definitely have that fire. I'm just worried. What if something What if something happens and I don't have that fire? Six months. >> It's not a soulmate. It's a house.

There's going to be more of them a year from now. >> No, I don't mean I don't mean the house.

I mean the payment on the loan. >> Okay. Okay. >> Right now, we have the fire.

>> Let me let me say it this way. If you wait for motivation to do anything, if you wait for a quote unquote fire,

whatever you're aiming for, you'll never you'll never get all the way there.

>> I agree with you, John. That's what that's kind of what I'm asking. If we refinance this to our credit union, no.

>> Now that loan is sitting in our bank and we have to look at it every day and I think >> So you're trying to make it more difficult to make you more scared of it to make you pay it.

>> That's exactly what I'm trying to untrustworthy person. [laughter] >> You sound trustworthy.

>> You [snorts] I trust in the show for 20 years and I have been in and out of debt many times and we're finally on there the right track. You've been in and out to where you don't even trust yourself to pay off this debt because you go, "Well, Kristen's not the kind of person who just pays off debt and stays out of debt." >> So, here's the thing. It's going to be a trust exercise. >> You need 12 months. You need this.

>> How much do you guys have saved right now?

>> Not a lot. We only have about 5,000 saved. >> Okay. And how old are you, too?

>> I'm 41. He's 53.

>> Okay. Picture like 10-year-old Kristen.

If you said, "Hey, one day you're going to be making $120,000." And then your 10-year-old self's going to say, "How much money do you have?" And you're going to say, " $5,000."

Don't you think that's wild that you guys worked this hard >> and 60 grand >> making six figures and you have nothing to show for it?

>> Well, we had a lot of debt up until recently. We finally just got here is what I'm saying. And so I'm afraid

I left that >> you're you're like at mile 22 of the marathon and suddenly you're like I don't think I can make it.

>> Just look behind you. Look how far you've come. You for sure can make it.

It sounds like you know what it sounds like you're tired.

>> Here here's the math of it. You have four loans. I love that they're split up. Please do not refinance into one private more expensive loan cuz right now in two months that loan is knocked out. >> Tada. You freed up. You only have three left. Two more months, you knocked out the next smallest. That's another payment freed up that you can add to the next one. Do you see that's going to cause you to trust yourself again when you see that kind of progress and momentum?

>> I don't know. I guess so. Yes.

>> Listen, [laughter] in in somewhere big and bold in your home, Christmas of 2026, y'all are going to go somewhere awesome because you're not going to owe anybody any money.

>> Mhm. and the home is just going to be on a temporary delay.

>> It's not going to happen in 12 months. So, you know what? Don't even look.

Don't even doom scroll Zillow to see what could have been cuz it's You know what? Because right now, Zillow is pornography for you.

>> It is a way to escape

that feeling inside that I'm exhausted.

I'm not where I should be. And I got a hard a hard conversation. I have a hard path ahead of me. I'm just going to offramp it here.

>> Pinterest is pornography right now.

Zillow is pornography right now. Talking to a uh um a real estate agent is an

emotional affair right now.

Just don't just don't concentrate on the one single goal you have, which is we're going to get to zero >> and we'll have done it, >> right? >> You get what I'm saying? You've done so good. >> Yeah, I know that. I knew this question sounded crazy. >> No, it doesn't sound crazy. It just sounds it sounds like you're tired and you're just like, "Hey, should I just um should I just take some performance-enhancing drugs for the last four miles?" And the answer is no.

>> I think it's just that we've done so much better under pressure and we I work better under pressure and we paid off our debt better under pressure. >> All right, let me give you some pressure. >> 24 months ago, would you have bet

anything politically that has happened would have happened?

No. >> No. Okay. So, in 24 months from now,

good God almighty, who knows?

>> Mhm. >> Whether there's going to be no such thing as deferment anymore. I'm just making stuff up. Whether they're going to demand all of the interest in a lump sum payment or put you in jail, I don't know. And you don't know, >> right? >> There is a ton of pressure on you right now.

>> Okay? And if you want pressure, imagine there's a $5,000 minimum payment due on these loans. Or just switch out of R completely to a standard repayment plan if you're begging for a normal payment.

They'll give you one.

>> You don't mean that, do you?

>> Yeah. Well, you're calling us asking you. I don't feel the pressure cuz it's $0. Okay. Well, you can switch to a standard repayment plan where it's $400, $500. But I'm telling you, you can just imagine there's a $5,000 minimum payment or else someone's going to come knocking on your door if you need that manufactured pressure in order to do this plan. >> I don't think you need it.

>> I don't. I just think you're tired. I think you want a house.

>> Yeah. >> And I think you're so close to the finish line here on this on this part of your trip. >> And I think you're frustrated and you have some shame and guilt because of the past decisions that have led you to have this delay dream of home ownership. And that's a very normal thing. That's not crazy. That's normal in America today.

For better and worse, it's normal. And so, I would put the shame and guilt down and go, "We make amazing money. We're going to put it to good use. We're going to be out of this thing a year from now, and we're going to have the rest of our lives debtree, and we're going to be homeowners one day." >> The Christmas present y'all buy each other this year is to get rid of that first student loan.

>> Love that. >> That's a great present for both of you.

>> Make a little card if you want to add some to it.

>> [music] [screaming]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at88255225.

Sarah is in Columbia, South Carolina up next. What's going on, Sarah?

>> Hi. Um, my question is that I am in the

process of trying to leave an abusive marriage. Um, but I have a lot of debt.

Um, and I'm trying to figure out what I need to prioritize as far as my money in order to make a safe exit.

>> Do you all have a bunch of debt or do you have debt?

>> Um, both.

>> Okay, >> we do. >> I think right now your chief the the the

most important thing for you is to get to a safe place.

>> Yeah, I I physically I feel physically safe. Um, but there's just a lot. I do.

>> Okay. Then I would create your own checking account to have your check deposit into it deposited into it for the time being. >> And we're going to go into store mode because you're going to need cash, >> right? >> And you're going to take care of your four walls. >> So that means making minimum debt payments on anything that's yours. Is is everything co-signed for? Are you both on each day? Um, so we are, um,

let's see, the car is mine. I have a

student loan. Um, and the rest of it is like credit cards and personal loans.

And that's kind of both. Well, and even if you if y'all

or if if he quote unquote bought a car and both of y'all's income went into a pot and y'all paid that car off, >> he may have some that he owes you to help pay off your car. All that said, that's for the lawyers to figure out

>> because the debts are going to get parsed out. The um what y'all the assets y'all have are going to get parsed out.

That's that's just that's the fight.

Does does your spouse know you're you're about to file?

>> So, we've had um a big discussion

um and it isn't really going over well

um but he's aware and I do have a lawyer

and um thank goodness I have a family member that has paid my retainer.

>> Okay. >> Um for that um but yeah, he's aware.

Yeah. Let let the attorneys work for

you.

>> Okay. >> If y'all were able to have a big conversation, which almost never happens when there's an abusive spouse where everybody goes, "You're right.

>> Here's my piece. Here's your piece.

Let's shake hands and go down to the courthouse for $300 and file the paperwork on our own and be adults." Um, but y'all wouldn't you wouldn't be in the situation if you weren't in an abusive, unsafe situation. So, wanting that to happen, it's not going to happen. Um Dave gave me a quote one time that I loved. The moment somebody files divorce, it is now a it's now a business

transaction.

>> And that's how we're going to treat it. And we're going to let the people who are trained to um do business transactions, which is the attorneys, do that stuff.

>> Yeah.

Yeah. And I I've tried that. I've tried

to be as, you know, strong as possible and, you know, not engage. Not engage.

Not engage. >> Yeah. Um, and he just he's very emotional about it. >> That's right. >> Let your husband say all the wild stuff,

every all keep every text message, keep all the emails. I'm going to take you for everything. You're going to all that stuff. Fine. Your goal now is to take

care of you.

>> Do you have groceries? Do you have a place to stay? Are you able to make your minimum payments? And we're going to go from there. >> Okay. >> What do you make?

>> So, I make um I just started a new job.

I make around 120, which is a great income. >> Amazing. And the debts that are tied to your name, either joint or solo, what does that add up to?

>> Um about

almost 70. >> Okay. What's the car worth that's in your name?

>> Um I'm not sure what it's worth. It has 15 left on the loan.

>> Okay. I'm just wondering if you get to a tight spot and you could sell that and downgrade or borrow a car from a family member for now. That might be a good move to get you to some better financial footing. >> But I love the idea of you going today creating your own checking and savings account, not connected to the bank that you're currently with with your husband and starting basically your new financial life right now >> to protect yourself and let allowing that direct deposit to go there.

And like John said, just stack up cash, make minimum payments on the debt, don't get behind on it, don't let it go to collections. But then once the divorce settles, you'll know as the dust clears which debts you're going to be owing on, what you could do, and you'll have a pile of cash to help you get that kick started. >> Okay.

>> Um, I'm a nurse practitioner.

>> I was just thinking nurse. So, his attorney, if he or she is worth their salt, is going to make a claim that he put you through nursing school and so that you get he should get a part of that. So, all that stuff like it's it's not going to come out clean. It's gonna be a mess, >> right? >> Divorce is a mess. But we're trying to get from here to there. And from here to there is don't make any wild purchases.

Don't overstress with when he start like

try your best to retain your emotional

sanity as he throws whatever grenade he's going to throw. >> So sorry you're going through this. >> Yeah, I hate it for you. All right, let's go out to Rachel up next in Atlanta. What's going on, Rachel?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's your question? Um and actually, okay, so um my parents are

aging and um they have Alzheimer's and dementia. And so we are beginning to look at like long-term care facilities, assisted living, that kind of thing. And we know that we're going to need to liquidate their assets in order to pay for this, right? And we know we have their house, they have some annuities, my mom has some stock in AT&T. And so

what I really need advice on is what kind of professional would I need to seek out to help me combine all these

tiny little accounts into one big account that would be liquid enough to pay for a facility.

>> So you're trying to piece these puzzle

pieces together to go, okay, we have all these random things out here. How do we basically sell off any assets and create a cash account in like a high yield savings or money market that we can use to fund the rest of their care?

>> Right. Yeah. >> Well, [clears throat] the the issue that I would see is you're going to need financial power of attorney to make any financial decisions on their behalf, >> right? >> And so that would depend on >> I pretty much have that um we set up a living trust. >> Okay. And um I am one of the trustees,

but the way they worded the power of attorney, basically each of my parents would have to quote resign as a trustee in order for me to be able to completely take over. Um I am working on getting

them to do that, but it is a slow process because there is a lot of pride and a lot of denial. >> Well, do they have clinical diagnostics

around their dementia?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Then that in and of itself may

preclude them from being able to sign off. >> That's my fear. If if they don't have the capacity mentally where they go, "Yeah, they can sign off on this. They know exactly what they're doing." The courts won't sign off on it.

>> But if you have medical power of attorney, then that's when you step in to make decisions for somebody who's unable to make decisions for themsel.

>> Okay? And

it's a nightmare because you're Yeah.

You're going to find yourself trying to do the best you can to love and honor your parents well and in their diminishing cognitive capacity, you're going to become the biggest target, the biggest enemy to them.

>> Yeah. [music] And you just >> I hope you're wrong in that, but I >> I know. I know. I've just sat with too many people whose parents have dementia and they feel like they're getting hit on one side by insurance companies and care facilities and on the other side getting hit by the person they love the most who is a scared, terrified parent,

watching their ability to function slip through their own fingers. And it just it's [music] the it's the worst. It's a nightmare. So, it's just getting yourself if you're married, you've got brothers and sisters, y'all stealing yourself for the coming storm.

But yeah, if they already have been diagnosed with dementia or Alzheimer's,

then [music] I don't think they can even sign off on anything moving forward.

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All right, John. We're going to play a little game. Where are they now? We often take calls and then we just That's it. We'll never talk to them again.

>> Okay. I thought you were talking about like one of your ex-girlfriends from middle school or something. [laughter] All right. >> She lives here now. No, that would be hilarious and awful at the same time.

No, this is a call from Skyler that you and I took back in February of 2025, this year. And she had made some mistakes in college. Moved in with her parents as a single mom. Her parents then wanted her to pay to put a mother-in-law suite on the back of their property. She was in baby step two trying to pay off. >> I do remember this call now.

>> So she wanted to communicate to her parents that she didn't want to go into more debt. She got an apartment, was scared to tell them. They were using her to get ahead financially. We told her, "Hey, you got to move out." And she couldn't afford the apartment on her own without her parents helping. So it was a very just toxic codependent situation.

She was working long hours delivering mail. She was scared. And we told her, "Hey, lean into the hard conversations, into the conflict. This is not forever.

This is a season." We gave her some resources and then something magical happened. She reached back out and said, "Hey, I want to update you guys on where I'm at now." >> Oh, I hope she doesn't call and be like, "You ruined my life." >> That's always my fear. I'm hoping we've got good news from Skyler. How you been, Skyler? >> I've been great. How are you guys doing?

>> Good. Good. That's a relief to hear.

Okay, so what is the update? Did you end up moving out?

>> I did. So, I had the conversation with my parents and I pretty much told them I was like, "I can't afford to put a

mother-in-law suite on the back of the property." Um, they pretty much were like, "You," they were just trying to think of a way to help me have my own living space and pretty much be

independent while also being close enough to help me with my son is what the conversation boiled down to.

>> Um, but I found a cheaper apartment, was able to move out. >> Good. >> And I'm actually teaching now.

>> Wow. You have full-time gig, huh?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Making more money.

>> Uh, about the same.

>> Okay. And how's single mom life going?

What's going on with the kiddo?

>> Um, it's better. I am he I'm able to get

him in the elementary school near the high school I work at. And so I could drop him off in the morning. I get to pick him up after school. I get to spend weekends with him, which before when I was working with the post office, I got lucky to see him maybe an hour or two before he went to bed. Wow.

>> And I didn't see him in the morning. >> You got your whole life back. >> It's amazing. >> Yeah. Got a boyfriend, so it works out.

>> A boyfriend entered the picture.

>> Gross. All right. Good for you. Good for you. All right. So I am of the belief

that most of the time, not always, but

most of the time when aging parents come

up with a plan or a scheme,

>> that actually deep down they're trying to help and they open up their toolkit and there's just one or two tools in there. >> And so take me back to that conversation you had with your parents. Did it ruin your relationship with them? Or when they explain themselves, did you realize, oh, y'all are trying, they're actually trying to help in the way they

know how and maybe their generation was just borrow money or just whatever. But tell me about that relation, that conversation, and then tell me about your relationship with your parents now.

>> Um, yeah, that's pretty much how the conversation went. It was they were trying to help me be independent and be

on my own, but still provide the support I needed with working at the post office. Okay.

>> Um, and it was ended up being productive conversation. >> Y'all still talk? Y'all still close?

>> Oh, yeah. Um, my son goes over there on the weekends still cuz he wants to visit his Grammy and Papa. >> Oh, cool. Love it. >> Um, the atmosphere has completely changed where before when I was living there with them, things were tense all the time.

And now that we all have our own space, it's >> way more relaxed and there is no tense.

Oh, yeah. We we threw a bunch of resources at you at the last call.

Financial Peace University, Every Dollar. What's the financial progress been like?

>> Um it it's still steady.

>> Okay. Knocking out some debts in baby step two. Still working through that. >> Uh yes. So when I went through Financial

Peace University and I did all the things, I sat down and looked at everything. Really, I was able I was able to pay off three credit cards at one time. >> Wow. >> Because I didn't realize they were so low.

That's great. You're just looking at the minimum payments just by not ignoring it and not being in denial going, "All right, I'm going to put this on paper, put it in the Every Dollar app, and go, what can I do about this?" And you just went, "I can knock these three out." >> Oh, yeah. Knocked those three out. Um,

right now I'm working on uh obviously I still have three more credit cards, so I'm working on those, getting those down. >> Yeah. How much is left total?

>> Um, on my credit cards? >> Yeah. Total debt that you have left to pay off in in Baby Step 2. Oh, like completely? >> Yeah.

>> 115.

>> So, you got you got you got a journey ahead of you, huh?

>> Yeah, it's uh student loans. Um cuz I

had I went to back to school to get a master's degree and you know, at the time take out a loan was always, you know, >> Did you finish the masters?

>> Oh, yeah. I have my masters in marine biology. >> Okay. And you're using that now to teach or are you not teaching on that subject?

>> Um not teaching yet. I'm hoping to hear back from a job though. >> Very >> awesome. Well, we are rooting for you, Skyler. Appreciate the update. I love to see just how much life has changed for you in nine months just by having some hard conversations and doing some hard things. Skyler, give like So, there are We're heading into the holiday season.

>> Mhm. And one out of three calls of

letters that come into my my show, the John Deloney show, one out of three of those is either like adult, newly adult kids who have

cut off their aging parents or aging parents who are have cut off their kids.

>> And almost always there's one big heavy looming conversation hanging between that relationship. What would you tell the 25year-old, the 27y old, the 22y old

that can't can feels like they can no longer be around their aging parents

um about that conversation? What advice would you give them?

>> Um

well, from my experience, it's you you just have to say it cuz nine times out of 10, it's not as bad as you think it is. I'm a huge overinker and so I had the whole conversation in my head before I even approached my parents about it and that's what scared me into not telling them. >> Ah you you you replayed that imaginary conversation a thousand times huh?

>> Oh yeah like every second I wanted to bring it up that conversation play over again. >> Okay. >> And you know people do change too. Um, if you're with if you know for sure your parents or whoever you have to have that conversation with is making efforts to be a better person, >> they're most like they're more likely going to not react the way that you expect.

>> Gotcha. Well, I'm proud of you for doing that. And and this is what changing your family tree looks like. And um >> Oh, yeah.

>> You're raising a kid that's going to know I can always go to my mom with hard conversations. And uh you're living proof. It's amazing.

Well, thank you. >> It's cool. >> And I appreciate you guys. I used everything you guys gave me and then I shared the books you guys sent me with a friend of mine who needed them to.

>> I love it. The ripple effect continues.

John, >> pass it along. Pass it along. >> There's so many pieces there. You know, we we behind the scenes we talk about the Ramsay Show as being more than about money. It's expanded because we realized half the calls are about relational dysfunction, not about the money thing, which is what they called in about as we dig one layer deeper. or it's about a work thing and a career thing and getting the income up. And this one really hits all three of those buckets.

>> Correct. >> She had a career problem, she had the money problem, and she had the relational problem with the parents. And it's amazing how you can work on all three at once. And there's a domino effect. >> Well, and the underlying the underlying foundation to all those problems is this one uncomfortable truth. You cannot go

around scary things. You can't go around

debt. You can't go around that big hard

scary conversation you need to have with your loved ones one, two, or three times. You can't go around a job that's not working for you and your new kid.

You can't go around it. You got to go right through it. And it doesn't always have a happy ending like Skyler has, right? Um but there's more happy endings

out there if you will just head right through the discomfort. >> Well, most people have predecided, well, here's what's going to happen, so what's the point? or it's the imaginary conversation. I'm going to I'm going to tell George. You're never going to tell George that, right? Like, and then they're going to say that >> it's that kind of rumination is never

>> it's never happy. Uh Bnee Brown calls it dress rehearsing tragedy. You're just you're performing it without actually doing it. Just go. We're heading into holiday season. If you got to have that hard conversation, have it. >> Now's the time. >> If you realize, I can't even afford the Christmas presents I'm about to start buying, then have that reality. go right through the middle of the discomfort.

>> Talk about it at Thanksgiving, not at Christmas in a blowup argument. >> That's exactly right. >> You set the boundary. You set the expectation. And that's really going to create the best life for you. Instead of being resentful, [music] I'd rather you feel a little guilty. That's the best case scenario.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

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Well, John, the old dog has got [music] some new tricks. We've done something different on the Ramsay show and started introducing video calls. So, now we

don't just get to hear from the audience. We get to see their beautiful faces. So, if you want to be a part of that, you've got a question you'd like to submit and you want to be on video, we'd love that. Go to ramseolutions.com/ask.

Let us know your question and in the subject line just put video call so our team knows that you are willing and able to be on video and the experience has been really cool so far. So we'd love more of those video calls. Go to ramseolutions.com/asksubject video call. Looking forward to talking and seeing you guys. All right, let's go to Grace in Jacksonville, Florida up next. Grace, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, I'm sorry I'm really nervous to meet you guys. Um, I am 19. Um, and I

want to know how to best prepare and invest in my future even though I make a low income while having debt and helping my mother pay bills.

>> Wow, that's a lot to take on as a 19-year-old. What kind of debt are you in? >> Um, it's just it's just credit card debt. >> Okay. >> How much?

Um, uh, 3,375.

>> Okay. And what do you make?

>> Um, I work two part-time jobs and a

couple other things on the side, but I still only make about a little less than uh 28,000.

>> 28,000. Okay. And you're are you in school? What's going on on the other side? >> Uh, I am in college. I'm almost done

with my um associates and arts degree

and then I want to go into communications.

Great. Is that part of your undergrad?

>> Um, yes. >> Okay. So, it's a four-year situation.

>> Um, two-year and then I'm going into a two-year university for the uh bachelors. >> Great. Okay. And are you cash flowing that or you going into student loan debt?

>> Um, I don't have any student loans. I It's all financial aid paid for and um I have chapter 35 from my dad being in the military. >> Okay, great. That's one of my goals for you. You're talking about how to invest in myself. It's to avoid student loan debt. Is it a It's a plague among young adults and it's going to propel you forward if you can do this debtree.

>> Okay. >> Now, tell me about mom. What's going on with you helping mom with expenses?

>> Um, so my parents are divorced. Um, so

and I live with my mom, so she's basically a single mother and has been for many a couple years. Um, I use I use

some of the money to help her pay bills up to like 250 to 500 every two weeks.

Um, and that goes to the mortgage on our house as well. Um, so like with that,

the mortgage bills and all of that, I do end up like spending a lot of money.

>> So 500 to a,000 bucks a month is what you're doing out from your take-home pay >> basically. Yeah. And is she is she sitting you down and saying, "I need this money to survive." Or is this you

just trying to pitch in or is this do you pay rent? Like what's the arrangement here?

>> Um it's it's not just it's the first

one. Um like just to like be able to

just get at least get us by.

>> I I I know >> she asked for that. She asked for the help. >> She asking for Yes.

>> Okay. Is she working full-time?

Um, yes. She is a director at a daycare center. >> Okay. Okay. And what does she make? Do you know? >> Um, about 50,000 a year.

>> Okay. And >> it's a brand new job though.

>> Okay. I'm wondering my the future for Grace means I'm You're probably moving out eventually. And so I want to make sure that mom has a sustainable plan versus well, if I don't have Grace's money, I'm going to be broke. >> Well, and here's the problem for you, Grace, is you can't make that choice for her. you can't make that decision for her and ultimately you can't be held responsible for the choices she makes.

And so on the back end of divorce, one

of the hardest conversations I have with people who just got divorced is you cannot >> afford the home y'all have been living in.

And people want to keep everything the same except for the divorce. And the divorce is so painful and it's so messy and yada yada, but we want everything else to stay the same. >> And that's what's one of the hardest conversations. And you as a 19-year-old,

you can't continue to prop up

a bigger, harder decision that your mom needs to make on her own as an adult.

If you want to choose to live there and say, "Hey, I want to start. I want to shift this from, hey, 200 this month. I need 400 for next month. I'm telling you right now, Grace, this is a recipe for resentment. And your mom doesn't deserve that and you don't either. It's getting really clear with I want to come up with a rent number that I pay you every month.

>> Okay? >> You get what I'm saying? And that's you stepping into your 19-year-oldness, your young adulthood, and saying, "I want to begin to clarify my roles and responsibilities in my life." Because you can't make a plan if there's the emotional weight and the reality to, hey, I need a,000 bucks. Hey, I need 500 bucks. Hey, I need 200 bucks over here.

Because here's what you're going to start doing. Rightfully so. Hey, why did you buy that? We didn't need that.

You're going out to eat again. Like, you're going to start these little bitty cracks in your relationship with your mom. And so, I want you to own what you can on your side of that relationship, which is clarity, clarity, clarity, clarity. And like George said, >> Mhm. >> I want you to start considering being in your own apartment by 20. You don't have to, but what would the math look like?

What would you need to do? What would what would the world look like if that was your plan?

>> Um, so we me and my mom actually used to

live in an apartment um and we just moved into a house um because we couldn't afford the rent anymore.

>> So she purchased that home.

>> Um it is with a mortgage. So

>> yeah, she bought it. >> She can't afford that home either. It doesn't sell. >> Yeah. What's the mortgage on it? Do you know? >> Um the monthly or the full like >> the monthly mortgage?

>> Um about uh 1,700.

>> Okay.

Well, can she afford that on her own if you were to move out today?

Because my guess is she's probably bringing home 3,000 something a month.

I don't I don't think she would.

>> So, that's my fear is that this mortgage is over half of her take-home pay and the only reason she could afford it was because you're there helping to prop it up artificially right now.

>> Mhm. >> So, that's going to be part of that hard decision that John said. That's not your responsibility.

That's the sad truth. And so, if she has to end up selling this home because you decide to move out, I don't want you to feel guilty for that.

>> Okay? because then you're going to begin to say, "Well, I can't afford to finish this degree or I can't take this job in this town that they just they want to hire me for because I've got to stay." And it's a it's a it's a counterintuitive way that's going to really cap you and your mom trying to take care of you. You're like, "We're ride or die together." That's a ton of weight for a teenager to carry.

Or let me put it this way. I always tell parents, you can't call your kid your friend until they reach 25 because a a teenager can't carry the weight of an adult friendship and of the full adult responsibilities.

It's a lot.

And I'm not saying you let your mom be destitute, whatever, but she's got to make grown-up decisions. And if she has to get this daycare job and then go from there to working holiday hours at Target or whatever to pay her bills, man, that's hard. And it's it's tough. and she's an adult and she needs to make those math decisions. If she wants to rent out a room to her daughter, awesome. Let's just get that real real real clear.

>> Okay. >> And lastly, Grace, what was the 3,300 bucks in credit card debt for?

>> Um, so, uh, it's actually from my mom.

Um cuz we this was a pre-planned prepaid

thing like from a while ago that my um old school was doing this Europe tour.

Um and so we went because it was like

really cheap to do. It was with a whole uh school education.

>> So you put on the credit card? >> Um yeah, my mom.

>> Okay. >> Then let me tell you this. 3,300 bucks at 29% APR is not cheap. And so if I

were you, I would pay off that credit card, cut it up, freeze your credit, so that you can't make another bad financial decision, especially at 19.

>> And I think I just heard you say something right there at the end of that call. Never, ever, ever, ever let your

mom talk you into borrowing money on your credit, on your social security number, on your credit cards. [music] That is a nightmare recipe. You're setting a precedent. >> Blow up your relationship with her forever. Grace, [music] it's normal to be broke at 19, but it's not normal to have this kind of intertwined financial life with your mother. And so, that's the thing I would caution you against.

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or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Chris is in Cleveland up next. What's going on, Chris?

>> Hi, thanks for taking from the bottom of my heart my call.

>> Oh, we're honor. >> Um, I'm calling a you guys are great.

Longtime listener. Wish I would have followed through. Everybody out there, listen to them. It would have been great. >> Thank you. But what I'm what I'm calling

about is there's a long history, but I'm

70 years old. Um I my husband

passed away, my second husband passed away, but with the second husband and well I did I adopted my grandchild

because of situations.

Um eventually because of different things I bought a condo um on my own. Um the condo now is worth

about $425,000.

Um I have social security and other things coming in.

Jacob now the the child is 19 years old

and he is in a an HVAC program which I'm

really proud of him for doing that and he's a good kid but I'm wondering he

kind of wants to venture out and I'm to the point where I kind of want to sell the condo um and I'm wondering I'm wondering if I should sell it and buy him something

um or if I should just stay here and

help rent it out to him and his new girlfriend. But I know, >> you know, I can I can tell by your voice, you know, the answer to all that is no.

>> Why do you feel the pressure

to do something that you don't want to do?

>> I want to make sure that I

You know, his mom is a weward child

>> and I have a daughter who is great, >> but I want to make sure he's taken care of. I want to make sure he has something. I'm 70.

>> Are you paying for this HVAC program?

>> No, the H No, the HVAC program. Um, he

has gotten, you know, some foundations

and everything for it. Um, and I do have

I do have money from um money from his grandfather.

No, I'm not paying for it. It's >> distill down for me what your actual question is. Are you asking should you sell this your home so that you can buy

him a house?

>> Well, the point is I want to make sure

he's taken care of. This h this condo is getting to be a lot for me. >> What What does taking care of mean?

>> Yeah. There's a difference of he's not going to be on the streets to he has a paid for home at 19. >> You adopted him and saved him.

>> He is where he is because of you.

>> I know. I understand. >> Okay. So, you have given him everything.

>> I know. >> And now he's on a on a good path. He's going to be one of these new um blueco collar millionaires that everybody's talking about.

But you know what? I'm to the point where I don't want this condo anymore.

>> Okay, that that's a separate issue.

Disconnect that from from your grandson.

Where do you want to move? Where you going where are you going to live? Cuz you're going to live to be 95.

>> You got 20 more years. >> I hope so. >> Okay. You got 20 more years. He's going to be 40.

>> Where are you going to go? Are you going to go rent somewhere?

>> And that's when I don't know what to do.

I don't know because he's he doesn't want to stay. He he's talking about moving out and if he he's talking about

moving out and him and this girlfriend for 800 bucks a month can afford something. >> Okay. >> And what's wrong with that? >> There's no way.

What's wrong with that is >> you're saying he he can only afford 800 bucks a month >> as a Christian. >> Okay. There we go. That's it. This is a violation of your values, >> right? >> You selling your house and and moving where you want to move is is issue one.

If you don't like this condo anymore, great. But you got to have a place to live. And if you've already paid this thing off and you're not going to something, I would suggest you hang on to this condo because nobody can take it from you. If social security goes belly up in the next 10 years, if social security doesn't keep up with inflation, which it hasn't been. If if if if nobody could take your home from you.

>> Good. >> I know. But part of it is social security. I mean, I've got $42,000

coming in per month.

>> 42,000 per month.

>> Yes. No. Per year. Per year.

>> Okay. I was like, I don't know what kind of social security [laughter] tapped into. >> I want that program. >> My fault. >> So, you got 4,200 of income per per month. You have no debt at all, right?

>> No. You live fairly >> frugally. >> There's two cars, you know. I try.

Absolutely.

Um and I just part of me really wants to

move out of the condo.

>> To where though to where?

>> I'm thinking I'm thinking about senior place. >> Great. That's amazing. Can you afford that?

>> Absolutely. I mean, my mom my mom had a

place and she just passed away within the year. $1,800 a month.

>> Okay. The get get with a Smart Ver Pro.

Sell your home. Put the 425 you're going to get from it in an account that will earn money to make sure you're next 20

years you can afford [clears throat] um this place.

>> But what do I do about Jacob?

>> You can't. Here's the most beautiful part. He's he's turning into a grown man and he's in the HVAC world. He's going to make great money and he gets to figure that out for himself.

And my fear is you stepping in is actually going to harm him more than it's going to help him. >> When my grandmother when I came home from college and she sat me down and said >> I had five, I think at the time earrings and my hair was all long and she said, "I don't like your earrings." >> That's not Jacob, though. >> I I know.

>> she didn't like a thing I was doing.

>> Okay. >> And I heard her and I actually made some changes in my life. But that was the extent of the power she held over me.

>> Okay. >> And you're trying to take ownership or even asking yourself, did I do something wrong because he's at 18 or 19 wanting to move in with his girlfriend into a cheap apartment? I'm going to free you from that. No. You saved his life.

>> Okay. Okay. >> All right. Thank you. >> You've done >> Thank you for your time.

>> You've done something amazing. >> You You've instilled character into this and gave them a safe place and showed them what love looked like. That is worth far more than you handing him a condo at 19, which no 19-year-old needs handed to them. >> And hand to rent somewhere and figure it out.

>> A half a million dollar condo is not going to keep him from living with his girlfriend. Maybe you sitting him down and saying, "Hey, this is a big deal to me. I I want to be heard on this. I'm your grandmother and slash your mom.

Then he gets to decide what he's going to go do next. But yeah, buying him a house, whatever. Sell your condo, that's great. Make sure you sit down with a smart investor pro what to do with the ass with the cash so that 20 years of

living in a residential facility, you're going to be okay. You're always going to have money to take care of yourself.

That's the greatest gift you can give for him is him not having to come pay your rent the last 10 years of your life. So, making sure you're good to go.

That's a gift.

>> But man, yeah, be heard on this uh values thing.

>> Chris is such a sweet, sweet person. If she's taking grandson applications, I'm willing to apply. [laughter] >> My grandma, God rest her soul. Here's what she gave us and we were grateful for it. 100 bucks at Christmas, 100 bucks on the birthday. >> That's a huge >> no condos. [laughter] I turned out okay.

>> Barely. But I loved that my grandmother had I mean, she didn't have the courage.

She was just amazing. But she said, "I don't like that hair. I don't like those earrings. I like this woman.

You need to marry her." Which when I was dating my wife, like that was awesome. That was awesome. >> That wisdom. >> Yeah.

It was great. Far more. But I still at 19, 20, 25, whatever. I had to go make the next decision I thought was the right one.

>> Yeah. Handing a I mean, just thinking me at 19, you hand any 19-year-old any large asset or any large amount of money, they're going to squander it and screw it up. >> He'll sell it within the month. Our brains are not developed enough to handle something like that.

And best case scenario, it destroys your work ethic because you're like, well, I was working so [music] hard so one day I could own a home and now it's just handed to me.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Dr. John Deloney.

Open phones at88255225.

Paige awaits in Michigan up next. What's going on, Paige?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, so my question today is how do I tell my mom that I don't want her to be my financial advisor?

>> Is she literally a financial adviser?

That is her profession.

>> So for background um she is becoming a

financial adviser right now. My current financial advisor um she was working for and he's retiring this year. So she is taking over for him. >> Very simple, very simple conversation. I got you. You ready?

>> Yes. >> I need you to just be my mom.

>> Yeah. Um, so the issue with that is actually um as I was I was meeting with a financial adviser that actually works right next to her office yesterday and she was leaving work early and um right as I was walking into the other door.

She was walking out and she was pretty upset that I was um I I another context

I have a 529 plan that was set up years ago and I'm I yesterday I converted it over to um to start the process of converting it to an IRA and she was pretty upset with me when she told me.

>> Okay. But like if she was a therapist, you wouldn't go to her for therapy.

>> Yes. Okay. True. That's so true. And so when she when I want you to tell her, "Hey, mom, if you were going to graduate school to get a graduate degree in therapy," I would tell all my friends to come see you. But I can't have you as my therapist. I need you as my mom.

>> And I'm so proud of you for going to get your financial stuff. That's awesome.

But I want you to stay my mom. Of course, I'm going to ask you your opinion on stuff, but I need I want to preserve this relationship.

>> Okay. What do I do if she feels offended

by that? because she is retaining the same number. >> You can't control that.

>> Okay. Yes. >> And can I be honest with you? You've probably been having to solve for that your whole life, haven't you?

>> Yes. I think so. >> Yes. Mom's going to get mad. Don't do this. Don't say that. Mom's going to get mad. What you learned as a really young kid is that it was your job

to take care of the emotional needs of the adults in your life. And that's never a kid's job.

>> Yeah. And so if your mom if you do what's best for you and your mom decides

to go off the handle, scream and yell, not talk to you, not invite you to Christmas, that's heartbreaking and you have to grieve that. But that's a choice that she as a as another adult made

>> to put conditions on her love for her daughter, which is you will be one of my clients.

>> Yep. Okay. You know, it's so funny. My husband actually just told me this last night, too. He's a huge fan of yours.

smart guy. >> All right. Do not tell him that you called us. Tell him. Be like, "You know what, honey? You're so smart and and handsome. You're right." >> And he's going to be like, "Oh, yeah.

>> I love it. Thank you." >> Yeah. Oh, here here's my take, too, Paige. I want someone who's unbiased and unclouded.

And the truth is, your mom loves you so much. She can't. Her judgment will be clouded by her love for you and what she wants for you and what she didn't get to do and what she would have done if she was your age. I want I just want an old guy who's like, "Here's the math.

Here's what to invest in." And I go, "Okay, cool." >> You know, or an old woman. This is not sexist. But, you know what I mean? I want someone so unbiased and so far removed who's looking at my situation from 30,000 ft.

Not somebody who was, you know, changing my diapers a decade ago, >> right? >> So, there's just it's just harder when it's someone that close to you. So, it's not out of that you don't love her, you don't trust her.

>> Yes. Exactly. And I know you guys always say, "Don't mix family and money.

Thanksgiving dinner tastes different." >> Yes. And by Yeah. And imagine she moves you in a bunch of funds and those funds because they're on the market and they're part of a roller coaster system, they go down.

>> I I don't want that.

>> Yeah. Right. >> I don't want you looking at her being like, "Oh, our portfolio was good last month until mom moved it to Right." It's

just going to protect you you all long term.

>> Perfect. Okay. Thank you so much.

>> Of course you're like I always need to hear it from another of source.

>> From an unbiased third party. Yeah, there we go. That's it. George, if my mom worked in concrete, I would ask her to come help my fix my driveway. My mom was an English professor. >> Um, when it came to, hey, will you help me like edit this?

>> Of course. But that's not a

>> It's not It's It's just Does the comic go there? Does the comic go here? It's there's Yeah, there's not all this other drama involved in it. So, there's certain jobs, man. Absolutely.

>> My friend was just telling me, so she's selling her house and her dad just became a real estate agent. He sold zero homes. Guess who's the real estate agent? >> Guess who's not going to sell their house? >> Dad. And so, I'm like, this is a nightmare situation, but it's she's like, well, just I want to help him out.

And I'm like, this is not this is this is scary. >> Well, you're choosing I'm going to And by the way, you're not helping out as much as you are placating. I would rather him not be sad than we sell our

house. >> And he chooses to be sad. Great. And here's what's gonna happen. He's gonna struggle to sell that house. First one.

It's just the way it goes. And he's going to start panicking and feeling a little bit shamed. And then he's going to not call back all the time. And then Thanksgiving dinner. >> Oh, that was the other thing she said. Yeah. He's not great at like details and and keeping up on stuff and getting back to texts and emails. Like that's who you want to ask. Let him be have the privilege of just being your dad.

>> Yes. Amen. That's all we got to say.

>> All right. Allison is up next in Richmond, Virginia. What's your question, Allison?

>> Yes. So, I have a 12-year-old that well, she's 12 and a half that's been watching and listening to the Ramsay Show with us and watching her dad and I do our um baby steps and she's been saving money because she wants to buy a car in several years. Um so, she has a checking account and a savings account and we actually went to the bank yesterday. Um, we were going to take a chunk of her savings and move it to a money market, but they said that because she's under 18, we can't do that.

you suggest that she's gaining more interest than just the little savings account? >> Yeah. >> Well, she's making like 0 something%.

Yeah. >> Right. >> You could do a um as the parent or guardian, you could open a high yield savings account. That's what I would do.

And designate it as a savings account for the child.

Okay. >> So, it's just kind of a label on there that it's for the kid.

>> Okay. So, that's So, okay. We asked about this. You can do a money market, put in your names, and then just give it turn it over to her when she was 18, but her name couldn't be on it.

>> Exactly. You could just transfer it over. And if you want a great high yield savings account, usually your brickandmortar banks have terrible high yield savings accounts, terrible rates.

So, you might want to look at an online option. And one that I love and use is from our friends at Fairwinds. And you've heard Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. They have an awesome high yield savings account.

So, you could open that in your name, label it for her, and start stacking away money in there and it's going to make, you know, 10x what you're making in your current bank. And that's what I would do. CDs I don't love cuz the money's locked up and you got to time it perfectly for it to mature, all of that. And the rates and high yield savings accounts are as good as a lot of the CDs out there.

And >> don't lose this. She sounds like an extraordinary 13-year-old.

Is that fair? She Yes, she is.

>> Okay. One thing, a gift you can give her that's not going to feel like a gift in the moment is to remind her through things like this that you are still the parent.

>> I like that. >> Okay. And because because when she goes to buy a car, she is going to save $7,000 to go buy a car. You are going to say you can or cannot buy this car cuz you're 16. >> Right. >> Right. And I'm not going to let you buy a cool truck that's been dropped with in the right cuz I'm still your parent.

This is a great way to say, "Hey, um I'm proud of you. This is your money. You've earned it, but we're going to put it in this account cuz it can earn more money for you." >> And I like the 401 Dave plan. Maybe you match what she puts into that and she gets a $14,000 used car four years from now. Now we're talking.

>> [music]

[music] >> buying you're selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know [music] what's really happening in the housing market. So, let's make the trends easy to understand. The median home prices held steady around $424,000.

In October, about one in five houses saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more room this winter to negotiate and snag a better price. Mortgage rates dipped slightly to about 5 1/2% in October, giving some buyers breathing room. But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when rates drop.

Do not try to time the market in that way. So, if you want to learn more about housing market trends and get some free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramiesolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube. Victoria is in Temple, Texas, up next. What's going on, Victoria?

>> Hey, thanks. >> What's happening? So, I Yeah. So,

my husband and I have no consumer debt, but we're about to close probably in January on our house, which will be about 260 after the down payment, maybe a little bit less cuz we're stacking it right now with my income.

>> Okay. >> Um I right now I work, it's called PRN.

It's as needed. So, it works because I have two young kids. I have a 2 and a halfyear-old and a 10-month-old.

So, right now though, we're looking at, well, what if I took there's a full-time nights position coming up. I work social work in the ER usually. Um, there's a

full-time nights position coming up in the spring. So, we're looking at, well, what if I took that and we just worked really hard for a season in order to pay it off? Like, we could pay our house off in about three and a half years. And so,

>> what's stressing you out about this house? Why the aggressive >> nature? >> Well, well, that's the thing. And that's kind of why I'm, you know, trying to get some advice is because it's not necessarily stressing us out. We have a lot of peace with where we're at right now, but the idea of looking forward and seeing um, you know, a short sprint and then being at the end of it and being totally free, um, which is huge to us,

being able to do, you know, what we need to do, want to do if we feel called to go somewhere else, do something else, like all that kind of freedom. Yeah.

>> Is just really appealing to us. So I don't want >> you're talking to two guys who are obsessed with not owing people money. So >> I' I feel the exact same pain. It just just know that it comes at a cost >> and it does it it wears you out around the edges. >> In my brain I'm going well right now with a with a 2 and a halfyear-old and a 10-month-old this is when they need you the most. And so could we delay this aggressive you know take until maybe

when they're three and five? Okay. Now life is a little easier. You can afford to take a little more sacrifice. That's a personal decision. I'm just looking at the variables as a dad with with two young ones like you. Right. >> It would be a really hard season for me to sacrifice right now >> versus when they're a little bit older.

>> Yeah. I I kind of look at it two different ways. Like it I think it would be a different sacrifice at that point.

It is >> because I kind of look at it I'm like they're not really going to remember this time. I mean I'm there my mom watches them when I'm not home. Their nervous system will their nervous system will.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. But but again, you have the right word. Any path you take is a sacrifice.

And any path you take comes with trade-offs.

>> Yeah. >> So if we play this out to where you don't make the sacrifice, how long will it take to pay off the mortgage if you just make extra payments >> with your current income? >> And that what's that trajectory?

>> That would be more like um >> five years, >> I think. I think when I looked at it, no, it was more like maybe eight.

>> Okay. And then let's also fast forward.

You guys will be making more money two years from now, four years from now than you are today. Correct.

>> Mhm. >> Probably. >> Or is there a world where you want to stay home for a season or are you wanting to continue? >> My long-term goal is to be home.

I was home for the first about year and a half of my son's life and went back to work actually right before I had my second to try to stack up cash for this down payment. >> Okay. Um, and so, you know, I want to eventually be home. And that's part of it, too, is like at that point I could just be home and not have this like >> Let me ask I want to ask George a question on your behalf.

>> So, so this mortgage you're taking out is 260.

>> Uh, yeah. At at tops after down payment.

>> All right. So, let's say after down payment, let's for easy math, let's say um 250. Okay. That's what you'll come in at. George, could they take one year and just go BA NAS?

get it down to where they owe 125 and then go recast that to where their payment is 125. That basically their existing mortgage which keeps all the interest the same, everything's the same except now your monthly payment just plummets so that you could then stay home and you have $125,000 mortgage.

>> I like that plan. What does your husband make?

>> Uh he's actually starting a new job this week where he'll be making 80. His take-home after all the I calculated the whole thing. It should be about um 2,700

a paycheck >> per paycheck. Okay. And then what are you making right now?

>> Well, right now I make 1 to 3,000 a month because I work, you know, I pick up shifts if I this job, my take-home

after, you know, retirement and all that would be maybe around sixish.

>> Oh wow. >> So, let me throw um a thing that a

variable in here that I always recommend to brand new parents. Okay.

Make six-month plans. Make threemon plans.

Because what happens sometimes is people make four-year commitments and they have a 10-month-old and then in six months you absolutely hate every second of your life waking up and being away from this barely one-year-old kid.

>> Yeah. >> And you feel trapped because quote unquote we made a deal.

And so what if y'all say we're going to do try this plan out, but we are have it already on the calendar. We already have a half day retreat planned with just the two of us to say, do we still like each other? Do we still is our we still like

hanging out with each other? Do we still like going to bed at the same time? Do we still does our intimacy life are we still going the way we want to be? Do we have the life that we want to have right this second? And is the sacrifice still worth it? And that gives both of you permission to to say, "I hate what we're

doing." to go, "Cool, pull the plug." You get what I'm saying? That way you don't feel trapped.

>> Yeah. At first when we started talking about it, like we were like, "No, we're not doing that. That's crazy." And then as we talked about it more, we're like, "Well, what if we try it?" And then we definitely have that understanding together of like, well, if we do this, >> not committing to more than like a year and if we feel good about it at that point, keep going, but if not, then we stop. or even if something sooner comes up.

Cuz that's the great thing about my job now is >> I have that freedom to work when it works for us and not work when it doesn't work for us. >> And and make no mistake, what you're doing is like clinically like technically crazy, >> right? It is. It's abnormal.

It's outside of the normal and it could change everything for the rest of your life. But if you all set the foundation of your marriage on fire to get to this thing, then when you get there, you cross that finish line and you got nothing left to give or you look back and realize we don't like each other. We don't like the parents we've become.

Like it will come at a cost. And so it's constantly going back and checking in.

The reason I can't tell you don't do this is it's exactly what I did.

>> Yeah. >> And I don't regret it, but I wish my wife and I had had better conversations on the front end. and we had a lot and

I'm glad that we both I'm glad that we did it. So, it's it's both and but just go in very wideeyed that this is going to come at a cost.

>> Yeah. Well, definitely do and that's why I'm trying to seek wisdom is I know like you know just the night schedule and switching back to days to be with them on my days off and like you know that just would be a lot it will be a lot

>> alone and then also my kids >> right but I I am a lot when I owe somebody money I just don't sleep as well and I know because I've tracked it right I just don't I I it just weighs on me and so everybody's a little bit different there but man you're I always tell folks go if you can do it in two years then just hit the gas and you're looking at double doubling that to four years. >> What's the mortgage payment going to be likely?

>> I think it'll be around 18 or 19.

Depends on what the interest rate comes to. >> Okay. It sounds like your husband could cover that if he was just if he was just his income. >> Yeah. We designed our life so that if I really wanted to be home, I could be.

>> Good. That's what I was going to tell you. Same page, same team. >> I didn't want you to craft a life where you both have to work full-time and you have no options. So, the fact that you did this, >> we crafted this to be very flexible.

>> Well, I think you have options then. And uh I think you'll know pretty quickly if it's working for the family, if it's working for you, if you wanted to try it for a season, that might be what I would do is just test it out. My wife did this. She came back to work after she had a baby.

4 months later, she was like, I need to be home. But at least we knew, you know, you know that you know once you've you've tried it out. So, I would encourage you to try it out. And the good news is it's not a sin.

It's mind-blowing. I'm just so proud of you guys for preddeciding that you don't want to carry this mortgage for 15, 30 years. >> Commit to a short-term goal. Hit it.

Re-evaluate.

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>> [music]

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[music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Open phones at8825-55225.

Today's question of the day is sponsored by Yrefi. If you've tried everything to fix your defaulted private student loans and nothing's worked, Yrefi can help.

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Today's question comes from Nathan in Georgia. Nathan writes, "I'm in college and I'm trying to earn a degree that will make me the most money in the quickest amount of time. You don't like that. I don't enjoy the field I'm studying, but my goal is to chase money and then figure out what I want to do after graduation." I really don't like that. Am I wrong to chase money instead of career satisfaction? Yes. [snorts] Yes. Yes. And then more yes. And then yes after that. Wow. Okay. I'm trying

I'm trying to parse this. earn the degree that will make me the most money in the quickest amount of time. What does that even mean? So the ROI on this

degree, so that means like you're going to get into med school and become a doctor or you're going to work >> it's the quickest amount of time.

>> And so >> so it's just whatever I can do in a four-year degree that will ROI with the highest paying job on the other side. >> Correct. >> And then I will figure out what I want

to do after graduation. So there's no real career on the other side other than whatever pays the most.

>> Yes, >> you can do that. >> You you can, but it will not work out

long term. And so I I know I'm in the minority on this and I know I'm biased because I worked in colleges for years.

The degree you get, the skill you learn how to do, the trade you learn, whether you're learning the trade of communication, you're learning the trade of um counseling, you're learning the trade of how to work in a business, that is important. And so is if you have to

have a a degree with 128 hours in it, that means you're going to have multiple professors over the course of your over your time. That means you're learning how to operate with 30 or 40 different bosses. What does this boss want in that paper versus what this boss wants? What does this one?

You're also learning to work with your classmates. You're also learning to navigate and learn how to do quote unquote life, how to pay your bills, how to be on time. And so to just distill down education into a transaction, I'm I'm morally opposed to that.

I just need this grade so I can get this test. And what we've done is create a system where the only thing that matters is not what you have learned or know, but what does that end report card say?

And we're finding that there is more A's than ever. and we're falling off a cliff in terms of oh, you don't know how to do math, you don't know how to write, right? You don't know how to think on your own. And so if you reduce this

education to quickest this, quickest that, most ROI, um you're going to run into a mess. Okay, so that's number one.

Number two, don't hear me say that what

you get a major in doesn't matter. It absolutely does. And there's a bunch of insane majors out there that are not a

good use of your time and money. So be thoughtful about that. The next bigger thing here is am I wrong to chase money instead of career satisfaction? Yes. The

number three on our study of millionaires. The number three was teachers.

You if you pursue something you love and that you become good at over time and you are helping people, you have to make real life choices about the math problem that is is your life. And what I love about teachers being number three is my wife was a teacher. She knew what this job was going to pay and so she made choices on her undergraduate degree and she made choices that her first car she bought was a Corolla and she thought it was going to go for 25 years. I guarantee that car is still driving somewhere.

She made peace with the Corolla life. She made peace with this is what I'm going to do and so this is what I want to have. And she would have fallen right in line with other teachers that you become a millionaire over time because you make choices about your lifestyle, right? But if you chase money, it will never end well.

it just won't end well. >> Well, it'll never be enough. And if you get to some certain goal, the goalpost will just move and you'll you'll be going you'll be calling us saying, "Hey, I make 300,000 doing medical device sales and I hate it." >> Right? >> Can I go back to school for the thing I love?

I'm like, "Well, dude, just do that now. >> Do that now." >> Or don't go to school at all. If you just want to go make a bunch of money, go start a landscaping company and go bust your butt and make six figures the first year. You can do that, too.

This is America. You have the choice. But chasing money in and of itself is a terrible goal. Uh instead go what do I love to do?

What could I get really good at? >> And the money helping that that to me is the magic question. >> That's a sustainable form.

trajectory has been the one thing I'm pretty good at is sitting behind closed doors of hurting people. I did that as a dean of students. I did that as a crisis responder. Now I do that as a YouTuber.

And one day this will all go away and I'll job will change again.

>> That's it's it will change again. But my identity is separate from it has to be from a job title. The world's too crazy.

It's moving too fast. Your job titles are going to change. The job we have right now did not exist when I graduated. And so chasing money or chasing an an uh I got to get this degree so I can go as fast.

Man, I who knows where I would be right now. I would have fallen off a cliff. But get real good at the thing that you do, right? You're really you are really good at distilling down complex information and helping people.

that would be good across a number of fields. It just happens to be this one right now. What is the thing you're really good at and what lights you up? And then go chase that.

>> And by the way, people don't want to do business with someone who they know is just chasing money. They can smell the inauthenticity four miles away.

Nobody wants to do that when you're desperate for the sale to make another buck. That's >> right. >> So I hope that helps, Nathan. Hope you're listening out there. all young people listen to this conversation because this could spare you a lot of heartache. All right, Savannah is in Montgomery, Alabama. What's going on, Savannah?

>> Hey, so I am looking to get some advice on um a repossession situation that

happened after a divorce. Um and

I'm stuck paying for it.

>> Oh man.

Um so was your is your divorce finalized?

Yes, it's been finalized. Um, the vehicle was awarded to him in the divorce. Um, I've tried to communicate

with the loan company. They don't care honestly because my name is on the loan as well. [clears throat] >> Um, after the divorce, he just didn't

pay the truck and it got repoed back in June or July, I believe. Um, they've

since auctioned the vehicle off and now

they've sent me a letter for the remaining balance. >> The deficiency amount, how much is that?

>> Um, $7,000 or I'm sorry, the whole balance is $12,714.30.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> have you called your attorney to circle back?

>> Um, I have not.

>> What did the divorce decree say?

>> No longer being recorded.

>> I'm sorry. What did the what did the divorce decree say?

>> So whatever was in his possession at the time of the divorce was awarded to him which is the was the vehicle.

>> But did it say he was responsible for the car payments or that you were?

>> Well that it said so the debt was the loan was in both of our names and it said my debt was to be to me and his debt was to be to him.

>> Okay. >> Um and I had asked them about this you know before and they just told me you know it it's got my name on it. I have to deal with it. No, legally they don't.

The lender doesn't care about the decree, but it just, you know, if you could take legal action against them, if you wanted to pursue that, I think the easiest route to go is just try to settle because you are legally responsible for it. And so, if you can settle for instead of 127, if you can come up with five or six and they can call it paid off, I would do that.

>> So, they did send me a letter, that's what I got this week, telling me that they would settle for $7,628.58.

>> Perfect. Okay. How how fast could you save that up if you just worked your tail off and did nothing else but save up to get this car out of your life?

>> Um I mean I don't know on the letter

they're giving me 36 months to pay that off. I don't know if that's going to include interest or what.

>> It may have some fees on there. You may be able to negotiate those off if you can say hey I'm going to pay you this money in a year but I need you to remove all these extra fees.

>> Okay. Um, so I mean I'm a single mom and

I work five full days a week and then

the weekends that I don't have my kid,

>> um, I work those weekends as well. Um, >> do you have any other debts right now? >> I don't um, I have my house.

>> Okay. Just a house. All my guns toward this. >> Would this be a case of going to a credit union and getting a loan and getting this thing knocked out? If you could do that, >> I don't I would ideally that would be

great, but I mean when he left me, he destroyed everything. >> Yeah, your credit your credits tanked because of the rep was like 400 probably. >> Yeah, you might you might go to a credit union and [music] take the divorce decree and explain it and they may work with you cuz you're in a different situation, especially if you bring your work um your current hours that you're working right now. They may give you that loan knowing there's a there's an extenduating circumstance, but [music] maybe not. Our

scripture of the day, Isaiah 48:17.

I am the Lord your God who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go. Eddie Veter said, "Life moves fast. As much as you can learn from your story, you have to move forward." Chip is in Dallas, Texas. Up next, what's going on, Chip?

>> Uh, well, get straight to the point, guys. Um, my uh father and I are in uh

business together. Um, I've got two other brothers and one sister. They don't participate in the business and never have. Uh my parents are getting a little bit older and um I am worried

about if something happens to them where

this leaves me for my business which I've built. My my father's a hands-off uh partner and um my main concern is uh

I have a good relationship with my uh siblings but um you know when stuff

happens stuff happens. Um, so in this

case, it's a substantial business, but

also, uh, we own the real estate. So, I'm trying to figure out, is it something that I should try to pursue

buying them out? I don't know if I could buy them out using funds from the business. Um, and again, I I don't know,

but uh, >> how much how much is he invested in for?

Uh, so so we are so technically it's it's my mother's 25%, my father's 25%,

I'm 25%, and my wife is 25%. Let's just

say my parents are 50. >> What what are they in for though?

>> Oh, uh, moneywise, uh, $3.5 million is

total what what their share would be worth. >> And your concern is that they pass away suddenly and then your siblings come wanting their piece of that $3.5 million.

>> Yes. Uh, I've talked to my father about it. He says that we have

I guess laid it out equally. But my problem is is that I don't know about the other assets. If it's going to come into the point, let's just say that if I

want to take this business, am I going to have to buy out my siblings? And uh >> is your dad saying no, no, no. I've got 3.5 for one sibling and 3.5 for the

other. Is that what he was saying? >> Oh, no, no, no, no. uh what he has like I'd say to buy him out of this business is 3.5 uh millions like what I'd have to pay to get him and my mom like out. Uh that's what I would value it at. Of course, we haven't had a valuation the past two years, but um >> yeah, what is it the business worth?

>> Uh so the business itself is probably worth about a million and a half. Uh the real estate um the real estate is was

worth two. It's probably worth more like three, maybe three and a half now. So it could be more than three and a half total. >> And what is it? cash flow >> uh cash flow. Uh so the only people that take, you know, of these partners that take salaries is my wife and I. Um and

uh we each take about $100,000 and then we do dispersements at the end of the year. But um so cash flow after paying

our salaries is about 500.

>> Okay. And you're saying that three and a half million they would agree that's a that's fair amongst all parties as far as a buy? I I'm not not saying that. Um

I think that if I approach them possibly um >> I think if you I think if you're making a net after expenses of $500,000 a year,

your valuation's pretty high.

>> Yes. I I think what it is is it's a reoccurring um income. And I don't want to get into too much details, but it is a >> kind of like subscriptionbased, if you will. So it's kind of like you have people locked in um and then you have long-term customers. But um uh let's

just say >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> But I mean even at I mean you're talking about 7x your your net cash flow, right?

>> Oh, the three again the three and a half

is is including real estate. Okay. So >> got it. So let's just pretend it's three and a half. Let's just walk this through an example and I'll tell you what I would do, what Dave Ramsey would do. Uh we're not doing debt and you obviously don't have the money upfront to pay for this. Correct. >> No. No. And I and I again, not to say that he would want it all up front, but um >> Sure. >> But would they be willing to go, "All right, we'll do 350K for 10 years is

what you're going to pay us from this business." >> Uh I think so. Um I don't know. Uh they

are getting older, so I not trying to be morbid, but um I would say that 10 years may be a stretch, truthfully, uh unfortunately. So yeah.

>> Well, we I think you just start playing with the numbers here and go, "Okay, here's what we could comfortably do.

based on the actual revenue of the business to go, "All right, we can do 400,000 over seven years." I I would

prefer it to be a percentage of your profit. >> I agree. I agree. >> And my hope would be that y'all do that and every year y'all can re you reconcile and so maybe you get down to where let's say they last six years

>> and then at the end I just would have to pay the difference to sibling.

>> You would pay it to a trust that would be dispersed to the siblings. That's right. at the agreed upon rate.

>> And I would involve a lot of professionals at this point. I would not do handshake agreements. I would have a business valuation expert, a CPA, an estate attorney. Get all of this in writing so that everyone's on the same page, siblings included.

>> And and that's my my thing. I' I've been trying to work on this past three or four years. And again, my father's like, "Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it." And he's he's a bare man. Don't get I'm not thinking anything's going to happen like shady like that. But again, I'm just worried about the sibling.

>> It's a relational drama outside of this.

>> Have you talked to your siblings to tell them that you're working on it?

>> Um, so, uh, one brother, oldest brother doesn't have any care. He He's like, I don't care about it. He's like, I'll sign over whatever. So, anything that if I did have to pay him, he wouldn't want a payment. Um, he's a he's done pretty well in life. I guess this doesn't isn't needed for him. >> I I would make sure you get that in writing because seven years from now, his wife may really want that. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yes. Yeah. No, and I agree.

I agree. Uh that's what I I I don't see that being a problem. Um the other two, again, they're very nice people, but you know, uh when stuff happens and they might say, "Oh, well, this is worth, you know, three and a half or whatever, and and you know, our portion is worth this." Uh and that's what I'm I'm worried about. Uh they they have shown no interest in the business.

They don't support uh they never supported the idea or or uh or supported real estate in general. Sure.

>> uh maybe two that you take the average of a real evaluation that you offer that to him >> and he says, "No chance. I'll sell this to you for a million dollars." >> Yeah. Well, I love that. >> Or for one, like whatever.

And he may say, "Great, cool." But he may say, "I'm not taking that much money. We're going to sign an agreement here and then it's going to be based off net profit over the next 10 years." That way there's no debt.

>> Yeah. >> But but if you if you sign a note to a $400,000 a year, you're locked into a payment. >> Oh, yeah. No.

And I don't I don't like payments. The only thing that we owe is a a small mortgage on our home. So again, we've been we've been following Dave. And >> uh that's main my main concern because I know that I could approach an SBA loan for something like this.

I just don't want to. >> Yeah. No, don't do that. Don't do when you introduce risk, it's going to add pressure and stress to everything.

not touch debt to go into this plan. And I like the idea of a percentage of profits over time. And so I hope that you guys can come to an agreement on what's fair and equitable for all parties and you avoid the drama of the siblings being involved. Make it very clear what they would get when mom and dad pass. Here's how this is going to go down. And I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I'm going to be. If you have

four siblings and one of those siblings had a really tight relationship with mom and dad, so much so that they invested a ton of money together. They they were silent partners in a business together. I promise you there is already a little bit of golden child syndrome. Oh yeah, sure. Chip always gets fill-in- thelank.

And so, make no mistake, you are clearly

a man of character trying to set this thing up so you preserve your relationships over time. I would expect mathematically that at least one of your siblings, if not two, bundle up and try to start a fight after your parents pass. It wasn't fair. They didn't talk to us. He got more than whatever the thing will be. I hope that's not the case, but you're talking millions. It

almost always is. Yeah. So, just be ready for I've rarely seen one of these just go perfectly smooth and everyone's happy and nobody's upset and everyone thought it was fair. >> That's right.

>> And so the best thing you can do is get ahead of it. Talk about it so much they're sick of you talking about it to where it's like, "Hey, I'm going to send you that email once a year about here's the agreement, here's the estate plan." And even Dave Ramsey does this with his own family. >> Every year they come to Jesus if Dave dies meeting. Here's what's going to happen with the estate.

And so there's no questions. >> That's right. There will not be any arguments to be had because there's nothing to argue about. >> Yeah.

Just just It's easy to say, "I don't care about that. I don't need that money." And then you find out, "Wait, I was going to get a million dollars." Yeah.

>> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only [music] one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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Heat. Heat.

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## 72. Follow a Proven Plan, Quit Making It Up As You Go | November 11, 2025


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:59:11 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsay Show.

All right, let's get it on and popping talking about your life and your money. The number is easy. 888255225

gets you on the line. Here with Dr. John Deloney. My name is Jade Warshaw. Let's get into it. William is in Atlanta, Georgia. What's up, William? Will I am

>> Hey, how are y'all >> doing? Good. How can we help today?

>> So, uh I've got I am 22 years old. Um

and I am engaged recently. Um she has

two children of her own, uh that I've inherited and we are having we have one

on the way. Um, so I with her we've kind

of, you know, planned. We're getting married. We are one. Uh, as Dave likes to say. Uh, we're kind of thinking of

the ballpark of what our debt would be together. And it's around 15 to $16,000.

>> Okay. >> Um, and we're really trying to figure out what the best way to pay that off is with the income that we currently make >> right now or after you get married.

Uh after we get married, we'll be getting married at the end of this year.

>> Okay. >> I first thing I want you to do is not ballpark anything.

>> Okay. >> Get an exact dollar amount.

>> It's uh $15,668.

>> Okay. So, you got that way to go.

>> All right. And you're you're 22 and you're about to have three kids.

>> Yeah. >> All I got to say is dang, Gina, it's a lot of kids. >> Yeah. What kind of money are you guys making?

So, right now I'm making right at $52,000.

>> Mhm. What about her?

>> And she is making I'm sorry.

>> Uh yeah. What is What will your soon tobe wife be earning?

>> Uh $42,000.

>> Okay, good. Okay. And um is she going to

continue to work um after this baby or what's the plan?

>> Yeah. So, she's actually got a really unique opportunity. My mom does uh Medicare insurance policies and everything. Uh, she was a cop before this. I was a cop before I started doing what I'm doing now. Um, so she has

gotten a really unique opportunity to work for my mom. My mom only makes her come in 3 days a week for uh 5 hours at

a time and she pays her $1,100 every two weeks. >> All right. Sweet. So, the main question then is how do we is it how do we combine our money to pay off this debt or just we know how to combine the money, Jade. How do we pay off this debt? Yeah. Essentially, how do we pay it off?

Um what I'm really struggling with is, you know, as you said, 22 with three kids. Uh and I was just kind of thrown into the the other two. And obviously that's not their fault and I love them to death, >> but I've never really had to budget around kids. I've always just kind of budgeted around myself.

>> Absolutely. >> So just kind of jumping into things.

It's kind of weird for me to be able to

just jump into it and be like, "Okay, well, I have to spend this much on groceries now and we have to pay this much in rent and everything." And then even with some of >> the money we have left over at the end of the month, we're still kind of paycheck to paycheck as it is now.

>> Are you already sharing money or is this just hypotheticals?

Like are you hypothetically I'm sorry when you said that we're kind of you said well we're doing this but we're already kind of running out of money. Is that hypothetical or have you guys already combined money? Because what I was going to suggest is you guys do a mock budget of what it'll be like once you're married and you have her income there. You have his or yours.

>> We we've already combined everything at this point. Okay. >> So you'll make a hundred grand and you're already paycheck to paycheck.

>> Yeah. Okay. Is it daycare?

>> Yes. Daycare is a very big expense.

>> How much is daycare? Cuz your wife's making 1,100 a week.

>> 4,400. How much is dayare?

>> Every two weeks. >> Oh, every two weeks. So, she's making 2,200. How much is daycare?

>> Is not far off. It's about 1,200.

>> Okay. Okay. So, there's still something to be said for her paycheck or yours.

>> Um, yeah. And when it comes to food, whatever you think the number is going to be, multiply it by probably like 3,000 percent.

>> Yeah, it that that's been the biggest one for me is groceries. I never knew that they could cost so much.

>> Bro, you don't How old are How old are these two kids you're inheriting?

>> Four and two.

>> Just wait till they're 12 and 14.

>> And how much is rent? What are you guys paying for? Are you renting or what is it? >> Yeah. So, we're renting. Uh we live in a two bed, one bath house uh outside of Atlanta. Uh-huh. >> I I pay 1050 a month.

>> 1050,50 a month. >> Okay. >> Uh and then billwise, we try to keep our

power bill low, but power bill rates here in Georgia have been skyrocketing.

>> Okay. >> Um so like last month, our bill was $200

and then we got it this month and it was almost $400.

>> What about cars? >> What about your cars? >> Uh so so my car has paid off. I don't like new cars. I have a 99 Tahoe that I

drive around and she has a 2021 Traverse

that she is upside down in.

>> What she owe? >> Um and I 25,000. >> Oo. And what's it worth?

>> Probably around 15.

>> My my my. What's the payment on it?

>> 535. >> My gosh. Okay. Um >> and our interest rate is 6.7%.

>> Yeah. Um, yeah. You know, talking about paying off this debt, that's gonna that's if you guys can get out of that, that's going to free a lot of margin for you. Um, yeah. Now, that 15,000, is that

uh private sale or is that what a dealer would give you?

>> Uh, that Yeah, that's private sale. Uh, we've we've gone to a dealer and just seen like, you know, tradein wise, could she get something older and just kind of the rest of it roll over or how we could

work it out. Um, but they would offer way less than we can get in private sale. They they sell a lot more in private. >> So, what I would be looking at here is >> so you owe 25. I mean, there if you

wanted to get out of it, you could try to possibly get a loan for the difference. Uh, but you'd still have to get something cash, which you'd probably spend about 8,000 on. So, you'd be at 18 instead of 25. Whether or not that's worth it, eh, probably not. I think you

guys can just uh bear this out by doing

the two things we always teach, which is there's really only two ways to do this, John. I mean, he's either going to uh work more and she's going to work more or you're going to cut things out of your budget or you're going to do a combination of both. That's the way this works. So, listening to you run this out, I mean, I'm I'm I'm estimating you're taking home about uh 5,800 a month. Does that sound about right?

>> Yeah, round about. And and the good thing about my job is I work a union job as well and I just started. So in four years I'll be making about 93,000

>> which I love that. But today you've got a debt problem of 16,000. Now let me be clear. I I I truly don't think you guys need to be combining money until after you're married.

That's where I am on this. But you're already there now. I doubt you're going to go backwards since you're getting married at the end of the year. >> Um >> yeah.

>> But the the key here is we've got to find margin. 1050 on rent's not bad. The 1,200 on the daycare is not bad. 400 on utilities.

I think there's margin there that you can find by trimming back some of the in the the expenses you guys have because your big areas, daycare, um unless your insurance is through the roof, but the big three areas seem to be okay.

>> Y'all go to restaurants a lot?

>> No. >> You don't eat out at all? Y'all cook at home? >> Yeah, she cooks at home every night. or you have maybe you have some dogs or like some cats or something that you're spending a lot of money on pets. That's a big one. Um >> you got to just take the sucker down to down to bone, man, on your expenses.

>> That's what I would do. That's the answer. >> And if you have to get a second job on top of it, yeah, you got to work extra, but y'all got to grind it out. This just is hard, man.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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All right, Allan is in St. Louis, Missouri. What's going on, Allan?

>> Hey, thank you for taking my call. Um, I'm in a a good predict uh predicament.

Um, my wife and I have recently uh went

debtree, paid off our house about a year ago. >> Way to go. Um the situation is we um I

pastor a church. I'm bocational and been doing that for uh 26 years now. We made

a choice when we got married and started having kids for my wife to stay at home.

Uh so I've been working a full-time job plus extra jobs all these years um just

to make ends meet. >> Uh so we're in a position right now where we're both 58 years old. uh a year

ago when we paid off our house, we just started investing for retirement. Um my

question is I feel like I've been

gazelle intense for the last 26 years.

Um but I feel like I still need to keep up that intensity to have enough in retirement. And >> how did you how did you be gazelle intense but just started saving last year for retirement?

uh because I was the only income uh

working two and three jobs just to make sure that our bills were paid and we had six kids and keeping food on the table.

>> But you guys also you paid off the you paid off the house. So you paid off the house before you started investing. Ye >> yes. >> Got it. >> Um and we we our house got torn down by

a tornado taken down by a tornado in 2019. >> Shoot. Uh, and that that actually helped us. Insurance allowed us to buy another

house. Uh, and we ended up owing less on that house than we owed on the one that we were living in. Uh, so that helps pay off that house quicker.

um you know so but we're in a position

right now where we've got um right now

I've got about $20,000 in Roth IRA and

mutual funds and we've got about $40,000

in savings. Um >> and what's the income >> what's your household income now as it stands? >> Well, yeah, right now my wife has started working since all of her kids are out. So now we're making 120,000 a year. >> Okay. >> Um we we've been putting um between 15

and $1800 a month into uh our

retirement. >> Okay. >> Um >> and we we have like $500 that we set out

each month for the next vehicle that we may end up having to buy.

>> Uh we've got $200 a month that we set aside for car expenses. Um, and then you

know the rest is insurance and things like that. Um, you know, I don't know if

we're saving out too much money for the next vehicle or you know, I I could throw more into the retirement. I just don't know >> well >> what what the best options would be. I think at this point your best option is to put as much into retirement as you can simply because I mean you said it yourself you've you've only got

20,000 plus the 40,000 you have just in regular savings and so of course you know replacing vehicles is is important but I am worried about you having something there because you as a pastor you're not you you don't have social security taken out of your check right >> well I I've had social security taken out because I've been working a regular job for the last >> 30 years. >> Okay. >> Um and I'm still working that regular job. >> Okay.

And do you know I mean I'm just trying to get all your numbers.

>> Uh I do not know what my um social security will be. My pension is going to be right around $1,800 a month.

>> Okay. Well, that's helpful. Yeah. I mean that would be my biggest thing. You do have the pension, which is nice. You do have a little bit of social security. Hopefully your wife will have that, too.

But yeah, my goal would be like, how much can I build up this $20,000? You said you were putting 1,800 a month in right now. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, I mean, if I run that math as it is, um, if you start now or last year, like you said, and you do this till you're 72, I mean, that's $735,000

you'll have there. And I feel pretty good about that considering you'll have a paid for house. But obviously if we can bump that up, you know, that's going to every bit that you can bump that up is going to give you a little bit more peace. Right.

>> Right. Right. Yeah. I guess I've just had a point where I feel like, you know, I've been working two or three jobs plus pastoring for the last 30 years. I'm like, okay, I I'd like to spend some time with my wife.

>> But at the same time, this was >> all these were choices. I hate that.

Everything was a choice, man. I totally get it, dude. I totally get it.

And it's it's when you look it's it's it's a it's a tough pill to swallow. 58 is that what you said? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Yeah. It's a tough pill to swallow, but it's like we chose six kids. We chose to pastor a church. We chose to pay the house and not put any money in retirement. We made all those choices and then here we are and really at 58

like I'm looking at a guy who has given his whole life to serving people and y'all have a math problem. It's just a it's just a math problem. like are we gonna have enough money when we are 82 years old um to be able to get groceries

and pay the ever escalating energy bills etc etc etc >> right >> so I mean that that's what I would do I think the 1,800 you're doing is great um and that like I said it's going to get you to 700 3 you know between 7 and 750

if you can get to 2,000 that's even better but John is exactly right but John I want to take a moment and talk about what he just said because I I hear

that a lot on this show. I've experienced it myself, which is >> I'm just tired. >> Well, yes, but um it's going back to the thing about being gazelle intense. Um if you say to yourself, hey, I hear what the the folks at Ramsay are saying and I want to start working that plan. I want to do this baby steps thing. I just have to remind you guys, um it's a system is

a plan. And a plan is a plan because you do things in a step-by-step order to achieve the desired result. Yeah. If you don't do it in that order, it's no longer a plan. >> It's just some things I heard that I

might try some of them. >> And so run it back. The difference between a guy who put a hundred grand in

20 years ago, >> right, >> into retirement that's just grown and grown and grown and grown and would be 58 and have $100,000 left on his mortgage. >> Right. Exactly.

>> right the fact that he chose to pay off his house versus invest like I said there's a lot of there's crazier things he could have But if you say, "I'm working the Ramsy plan," then it doesn't work for you like that if you if you work our plan. And I just want to call that out because that's what keeps people very frustrated is when you look at this and go, "This one works for me, that one doesn't. This one works for me, that one doesn't." >> You say the whole plan doesn't work. >> Yes.

And you will. And I'm just saying if you don't do the plan the way the plan's written, John, you're going to end up chasing your tail. Then you're going to be looking at us saying, "But I was gazelle intense." And I'm like, "No, you weren't. That wasn't our plan.

and you write about this in your new book it's psychological it's emotional >> and there's something about like when I've talked to Dave privately about being gazelle intense I want to spend this many years and just pay off my house he said you're going to be a shell of yourself in those many years do it the way we we set it up so that when you turn 58 you're not looking around going, I've got nothing left to give and I'm exhausted >> and I just want to hug my wife like and I which dude I I I'm like that.

I totally get that.

and and the money's the money always works, right? It's less living less than you make. But >> there's a huge This is a perfect example of a guy who has dedicated his life taking care of people and paid off his house. He hasn't been out gambling his money.

It's amazing. And I'm 58. I'm just burned out. >> I'm tired.

I mean, Sam and I did that. I I've been guilty of it. That's why I'm calling it out. I'm not telling you something that I haven't done myself, Alan, and anybody else listening.

I mean, I was the one who It's clear. The baby steps clearly say pay minimum payments on everything and take the extra money and put it on the smallest debt. That's what it says. But I had a big idea and said, "We don't need to do that.

We just need to put all the money." Like, forget about the credit card minimum payments. Just put everything on the smallest debt. Then, yeah, you're going to get frustrated because now you got bill collectors calling your phone.

>> Right. >> Right. And then you're you're stressed out because something comes up and it's just you got to walk the plan the way the plan states. Millions of people have done this. And so there's a reason that it's called a proven plan, not just a plan because if you do it, the proof's in the pudding. It actually works for you. That's all I'm going to say. Not to not to get on to Allen. We love Allen.

But if you're listening and you're kind of hanging out around the water cooler on this, just do it the right way. It works.

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So go to ramiesolutions.com/store or if you happen to be watching on YouTube or podcast podcast, you can click the link in the description. All righty then. Let's go to Thomas who's in New York City, New York.

What's up?

>> Hi. Yes. Uh, I'm trying to figure out whether or not to to bless my sister um

with some money to help fix her car or uh see my siblings and my mom for

Thanksgiving. They promised to come up for Thanksgiving, but uh this wrinkle has uh put a put an issue in it.

>> Interesting. So, what's going on with your sister? What's causing her to have problems with fixing her car and uh getting to see the family on Thanksgiving? I mean, she she just doesn't have a a ton of money and um not

really good with money. >> I was going to say like the fact that you're calling tells me this is not a one-time event.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely not.

>> And if you cover the cost of this car, is it just going to be one thing after that? I I mean I'm I want to say I this is it,

but I mean I I want to take care of my my family and my people, but >> what's the n what's the nature of what's causing her to fall on hard times over and over again?

>> Uh I think lack of discipline. Um she's

kind of a a flighty uh person.

>> Yeah. >> So over the years, I mean, what's this looked like for you? I mean, give us some hard numbers. How much have you spent to bail her out?

>> Uh, not a not a ton. Um, but I I think more than anything, I just really want to see them. Um, >> but you you already answered your own question, brother. You said, "I'm always going to take care of my family."

>> You've already made that choice, dude. So if if that's the choice you want to make, then make peace with your choice and make peace with the consequences of that choice, which is you are you married right now? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Then you and your wife going to have to figure out like what that looks like financially. And you you have to

decide if I'm going to give money every time she calls, I'm not going to get mad when she calls. >> What's your wife think about it, though?

>> Uh she's she's good with it. I mean, I'm not mad. I I just want to see see them and uh up here for for Thanksgiving.

>> You I mean, you've already made that choice, brother, so make peace with it.

>> Do you have the money to help? What's your financial situation? I'm just wondering practically.

>> Yeah, we're we're good. We're getting ready to buy a house. Um we're Yeah,

we're we're doing well. Work the baby steps. Yeah. >> What's the question beneath this question? I'm str I'm struggling with your question. Mhm.

>> Uh I don't want to I want to see them

more than I want to to give her money to fix her car. >> So it's more about what you want, not what she needs.

>> Yeah. >> Huh. Um >> does she want to see you?

>> Uh yeah, but they they aren't going to

come up um if I don't give the money to

them >> because they can't or because they don't want. because they can't. >> Okay. >> Yeah, because they can't. Yeah.

>> Okay. Um and they didn't ask >> uh No, she didn't ask me to help her fix her car. She just asked me, "Hey, we we can't pay for the rental car to get up there." So, um >> How old are you guys?

>> Uh I'm 40 and my wife is 36.

>> Um here here's I agree with what John said. Um, I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and I'm just thinking, okay, if my sister was like, "Hey, are you coming to Memphis?" and I was like, "No, you know, the car is in the shop." If she was like, "Oh, I'll pay for the car to get fixed." That might make me feel a little weird. I might be like, "Oh, no. We're good." Like, you know, Sam and I, we're we're good. And if she keep kept insisting, I I don't know that I would

have would like that. But just because

now it feels like, okay, well, I've got to give her this money back. I'm on the hook. You know, it it does change relationships when you borrow and give

give money to your family, especially if

it's not if there's kind of this underlying of she's kind of flighty. She just doesn't really, you know, handle her her her business. Uh that's my only

thought. I like I said, what John said is true. If you have already made up in your mind, if my family's struggling, I step in. Then that's your bag. I and the

way I if this was my house, the way I would frame it is, >> hey guys, I happen my wife and I happen to be in a season of blessing right now and we would love to get y'all a rental car to come up here

and they can say they can say no.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> Yeah, that doesn't bother I mean none of it bothers me. I'm just trying to play it from both.

>> Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. And you know your sister better than Jade and I will. And if you know that really what she's telling you is I don't want to come, then you're going to have to sit in that for a little bit and not just throw money at a problem, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. They definitely want to come. I just I feel like the responsible

one and want to want to take care of them. >> Is she married? Is she married?

>> Yeah. Yeah, she's married.

>> Okay. So, tell us about him because you told us about her. She's a little flighty. What about him?

Cuz it takes two to tango. Why? Why don't What's the problem? >> Yeah, they I I think it's just a lack of discipline.

I don't want to >> Okay, >> that's not my That's not my home, so I don't want to talk on them, but uh that's what it seems like to me. They >> Okay. >> They've uh they've had some hard times and >> um >> Are you concerned that you're enabling them? >> Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

>> How many times have you bailed them out in the past?

>> Uh a couple. Nothing nothing crazy.

Okay. >> Um, just a couple hundred dollars here or there. >> That's my I'm going be honest with you, uh, Thomas. That's the only thing that bothers me about it. I I 100% understood what you said earlier cuz I've been in that situation. We were like, "Hey, it benefits them and I realize that, but I'm really doing this cuz it's what I want. I want the whole family to be together." I understand that very well.

I'm in a season of that right now. Uh, however, the enabling part did bother me a little bit because this is a cycle.

And at that point, it's one thing if it's like no harm, no foul, but if you're enabling somebody, you are doing them harm. And so that's the only part that I I mean, John can speak more to that, that's your bag. But >> yeah, and I've I've given them like the the total money makeover book. I've tried to help them with budget management and >> Yeah. But they just haven't asked you for that.

>> Yeah. They haven't.

>> Yeah. And that's just tough, man. when when the our loved ones and our friends and family when we literally have a tool in our toolkit that can help them and they're not asking for that tool.

>> Yeah, that's tough, >> right? And that's that's always just hard. But I and I will say this, you would have a very extraordinary wife, and I'm not saying wife, you'd have a very extraordinary spouse >> if they're okay with you indiscriminately bailing out your siblings bad financial decisions over a long period of time. So, I think it's worth you sitting down with your wife and saying, "Hey, >> I don't want this to get out of control and be a forever thing.

What is our number? Do we have a line, >> a boundary?

>> Yeah. But dude, if you got the money and your family's just literally a rental car away from coming to see you, they just fell on hard times. That's an easy decision. But I think the fact that you're calling says there's different layers to this thing, man. And that just makes it challenging. >> I agree with that. Hey.

Yeah. What do you think you're going to do based on just based off a snapshot of what you heard John and I do? What do you think you'll do?

>> Yeah, I think I'll >> He's gonna do it.

>> Yeah. I'm gonna give him the money to fix the car and I'm gonna say we'll see you at another time. >> There you go. I like that.

Do it. Have a good holiday. Bring it up later when you're not in the heat of the moment. >> So Jade, I want to say this.

If it is, we're recording this show at the very beginning of November. If you haven't already and you're listening to this, if you're married, sit with your spouse and y'all talk through exactly what you want the holidays to look like. Not what they have to be. What do youall want them to look like?

And then communicate that to your family. Like do it the next day or two. Yes. >> Right.

Let everybody in your family know. Let all the temper tantrums happen. Let all the plans happen. Let all the exhale happen.

Um but make those plans while you are still in control of them before you get dragged behind somebody else's vision of Thanksgiving and Christmas. >> I agree.

>> And this year will not be the year it finally all works out. It'll be just like last year.

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All right. Anthony is in Providence, Rhode Island. Hey, Anthony. How can we help out today?

>> Hi. How you doing? Thanks for taking the call. >> Yeah, you bet. What's up?

Um, so I'm currently torn right now. Um,

my wife and I, I'll start off with this.

My wife and I, we both take home around,

and I'm saying like net, uh, we take around $80,000 a year. Um, maybe with

bonuses closer to 85.

>> Okay. Um, right now we are both currently $20,000

in debt between our car loans and um,

credit card debt. >> Okay. >> Um, the main concern I have now, uh, I

just started following the baby steps. I just got introduced to Bever by my friend. Um, and

everything's, you know, everything's great. The math is mapping. Uh the only concern I have right now is that I've been working her between her and I,

we've been working very very very hard.

Um long long hours uh trying to trying

to figure out babysitting.

>> Uh so it's been it's been pretty tough trying to manage time. Um because I know

you can't get time back. That's the one thing I've always been told. >> That's true. >> Um >> so the 85,000 net that's with side hustles.

Uh the 85,000 that's with uh both of our primary incomes.

>> Right. But you were saying like we're navigating you made it seem like you were doing a lot of extra.

>> So uh and our So we we both have a job.

Um a full-time job.

>> Uhhuh. >> I'm working about 60 hours a week. Um >> Got it. Uhhuh. >> And then she's working about maybe 30 35

hours a week. >> Okay. >> How old are your kids?

>> So I have one kid. He's one years old.

He just turned one. >> Okay. >> Um and trying to find a babysitter is the main issue for us. >> Mhm. >> Got it. Okay. >> Um we're able to make it work. Her grandma is always there for us and stuff. >> Okay. >> That's a blessing, dude. So, how much margin do you have every month? Like you've done the budget. And by the way, welcome to the cult, brother. >> Hope you like took a bath in the Kool-Aid, man. >> All right. So, you're here in our crazy little gang.

>> Like, how much margin do you have? You all done a budget. What do you got left at the end of every month that you're throwing at this $20,000 debt?

>> Uh, so for me alone, uh, just because

we're not factoring both of our incomes together.

>> Um, >> you're married. >> Um, >> you made a human together. You can share a checking account.

>> So, the main the main issue has been trying to get her on board with the Dave Ramsey thing. Um, >> okay. So, halt everything. Halt everything, homie. Halt. You can't you can't do this by yourself, man.

>> Right. >> You can't like you you got a bigger issue than debt right now and then it's it's a spouse that that doesn't share the same values as you, >> right? >> You got to get there.

>> And what does she want to do? >> Yeah. >> What's her what's Tell us her side.

>> Yeah. So she uh she definitely believes in um you know working very hard trying to stack the money but the the issue is that she's not in her mind she she wants

to save the money but she's not actually putting it on pen and paper and then she's not having any you know margin at the end of every month >> but she shouldn't have margin y'all should have margin. So, is the problem that she doesn't feel good about combining money? Like, plan aside, like getting out of debt aside, just you guys going through, let's pretend that there was no debt to pay off, just you guys being in a world where both your paychecks go into the same account and as you spend, >> you let it, you know, there's transparency and what's yours is mine, what's >> she she would be willing to do it.

the importance of it more often to her or just have that one good conversation about how serious I am about it and see if she like to see how she feels too.

>> So go ahead, John. >> I was going to say it's not about engraving, dude. It's a It's the opposite.

>> Like I want you to sit down with your wife tonight and say we've got a one-year-old. We created a human together and I don't feel like I am like that we're

we're united in this marriage and I want to be allin with you. And the way I want to start being allin with you is I want to put all of our money in one account and we're going to have to talk about it. We're going to share stuff because I don't feel safe with our money situation right now.

>> Right. Okay. >> And you and so instead of trying to engrave it in her like I got to force this plan, I want you to do the opposite. I want you to take a knee in front of your wife and open your hands and say, "I'm scared to death with how we handle money." >> Mhm.

>> And if it happened in your house in a negative way, I want you to say, "I lived through this," >> right? >> And I don't want our one-year-old growing up like this. And y'all make almost 90 grand. You 85 grand >> and you owe 20,000 bucks.

>> Right. Right. And then I don't care about like I'm gonna you're going to miss miss a couple of miss six months of

a one-year-old's life so that you can have the rest of the life that y'all

want to build.

>> Okay. >> You get what I'm saying?

>> Absolutely. >> But if you go at a spouse who's kind of on the fence or doesn't really care with a bunch of spreadsheets and a middle-aged man who like yells get out of debt, they're just going to blow you off. If you go to him and say, "I'm scared to death that I'm going to repeat the same mistakes my family made and I don't want to do this." Will you be allin with me? And if you are, I've got a plan that millions of people have used and it will work every time.

>> And can I add something to that? I would also, if I were in your position, I would seek to understand what's giving her uh pause.

that trepidation against you? >> Yeah. Do you do you always have a scheme? Is this like scheme number 50?

Like you were selling essential oils last week and Avon the week before that and like hot yoga the week before or is she just like pretty much immature kind of does what she wants to do?

>> I want to say it's a little bit of immaturity. >> Okay. >> She's just not not as responsible with money. >> Do you do you Venmo her for babysitters?

Um, so thankfully our her grandmother's not charging us. Even though >> I was being sarcastic, be like, "Do you all VM know each other for like, dude, you you got Wendy's last week, so I got Arby's this week?" >> Do y'all really? >> Yes. >> Okay. That ends today. That ends today.

>> Okay. >> Okay. That's how roommates in college handle stuff, >> right? >> But there's something be The truth is some of it might be immaturity, but there's something behind that. I There's something behind that. >> Totally. There's something of she wants to protect herself or

whatever. Yeah. Embarrassment. It's a way for her to reward herself. There's something there that it'll be hard for you to get to the bottom of changing that without understanding her perspective. Wrong or right, it's still her perspective. The more you can understand it, the more you guys can can get on the same page. So, I >> Okay. I think that the plan of, you

know, working the baby steps is secondary to understanding why there's not a trust to combine finances. So, that's thing number one. And then as you unravel that, you can start to do these things. So, >> Dave talks about um and Rachel talk about there's um a nerd and a free spirit in every relationship.

>> And so, tell her you'll take the role of the nerd. And what that means is you'll create the draft of the budget >> when you all sit down on Sunday nights just to run through it. And she gets to change one thing at least and y'all go but you'll create the framework, you'll create the draft, but you're going to sit down and y'all are going to go over this thing.

>> But all the money is going to go into one account. We're never vinmoing each other again because it's our money. This isn't yours and this isn't mine.

>> And when y'all have when you get a big bonus, it's going to be y'all's. And when she gets a big bonus, it's going to be y'all's. And when y'all have babysitting, when y'all have food costs go up like crazy because of inflation, it's going to be y'all's problems that y'all handle together.

>> You get what I'm saying, >> right?

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. This this this conversation could transform your marriage >> or it'll reveal your marriage, right?

>> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. >> I just I've been trying to figure out a way to like manage it without I guess

poking the bear per se. >> How long have you been married?

>> Um, so we actually got together two years ago.

>> But how long have you been married, >> man?

So I want to say about a year now.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, I want you to know how long

you've been married. >> Yeah, that's a number you need to know, homie. You need to you need to dial that one in. >> I'm sorry, Anthony.

That was funny to me. >> If if if you ever have to refer to your wife as a bear, and I know you're playing, but like when you say like, "I don't want to poke the bear." That like tension is the doorway. Conflict is connection. Like you got to go through that.

If you keep working around it, if it's unsafe, you got to go somewhere else. But if it's just immaturity, I'm going to do it. I want to do it. You've got to go right through that.

>> Oo, good question. It's the next right call, man. >> Yeah.

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All right, welcome back. We're here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio taking calls about your life and your money. I love this show. I love that you guys call in. I love that you trust us with your situations. It means a lot.

That's what Allison's doing from Omaha, Nebraska. Allison, you're on the line.

How can we help today? >> Heck yes, I am. Miss Jade, Dr. Deloney, thank you guys so much. This is like weird and really exciting at the same time. So, >> it's our honor. It's our honor.

>> What's up? >> Yeah. So, um my fiance and I are at a

crossroads on how to handle finances and

there is a difference in economic status and a family business involved. But because that's not complicated enough, we decided to try for a child and instantly succeeded. Um, which is great.

But once that happened, his tone has now

changed regarding combining finances and

even getting married legally at all.

>> Uh, oh. Yes.

A little a little marching band of red flags, but >> Yeah, man. Okay. So, how long have you been together? >> Oh, man. I'm laugh I'm not laughing at you. I'm just like >> No, I >> pass the picture and I'll I'll pour another one.

>> Jeez. So, has this guy just done a 180 on you? >> Uh, it Yes. I would like to dance around it and pretend that it's anything but.

But but it is dressed up in a really nice package, but when it gets down to it, it's it's a little hoodwinky. So,

>> um Okay. Um

>> and sorry, Jake, we've been together four years. So, what's your like what's

your question? How can we help? There's like 50 questions here I got, but what's your question?

>> Um, is there is there a way around

structuring things that I can that we

can make him and his family business and all that feel secure while also providing security for me as a stay-at-home mom?

>> Oh, so, okay, I see. So tell us the economic uh unbalance there. Tell us what his family business is, what it's worth, what you think he's worth, and then tell us about you. >> Yeah. Um to the best of my understanding, he he was in finance before. He's coming in with about 4 million and then the family business is about 15 to 20. However, they do leverage a lot of debt. Um so at least

to me, a lot of debt. It's like 1 to five million bucks a year they can take and go through. Um, for myself, I have

no debt. I've got a little under 600,000, own a home in Nashville, had a great business, um, that I shut down in order to come and be a part of this, >> making like 110, working only 10 hours a

week. So, >> so you work in his business, his family's business. >> Um, I help out probably more than I should and don't get paid. So, but I I

had my own business prior that I shut down in order to move and be a part of

this. >> So, did you say, let me make sure I understood. Did you say that you help out and don't get paid at all or you get paid for something, but then you go above and beyond that and don't get paid for the above and beyond? Well, the um I

don't have an official role in this business and I've been given a credit card which he thinks I should be happy with that that a credit card should be security enough.

>> Got it. Okay. So, there's problems here.

Um >> there's problems everywhere.

>> I guess let me ask you this question. This the most perplexing thing to me

>> Yes, sir. is

why aren't you running for the hills?

>> Because I have the most beautiful baby and I um >> I know but you >> there's just a there's a piece of me and I'm so sorry to cut you off. There's a piece of me that um >> I want I just want to make sure that I've unturned every rock >> you have. Oh, >> you have. >> Oh, wow. >> Behavior is a language. This man has said, "I do not want you a part of my life unless is as it is as an unpaid employee who

does whatever I want, whenever I want it, however I want." Period.

Right.

>> I'm so mad and so happy I called.

>> Right. >> Yeah. >> Behavior is a language. You are desperately trying to hold on to a picture that is right and is good.

and you have sacrificed a whole bunch to get here. And as you have sacrificed, he has continued to pull back because he'll take everything you got, including your dignity and your respect and your work and your job and your time. He'll take all of it because you keep putting on the table.

>> Did he even offer a prenup?

Um, in the discussion leading into this,

it was always, I don't believe in prenups. I would never get married with a prenup. It was all that kind of discussion. Um, >> he just changed it to and I'll never get married either.

>> I think that's the thing. I I if you had told me something like he offered a prenup and I didn't want to sign it, that would have been weird. if the but I'll be honest, the fact that he didn't even say it. Let me know from the beginning.

He was planning all along not for this to go through. That's kind of the way I see it >> because a guy like this, he would be planning to protect his assets >> upon marriage, right? I mean, you're right. There's a big difference.

There's a family business. It would be totally fine for him to to offer that and say, "Hey, with my family business, here's what I have to do." And you'd be like, "Sure, fine." But the fact that he didn't even say it or mention it like that makes me know, oh, he wasn't even intending to get to get married at any point. >> Yeah. Things got even more squirly when there was like this push because I do have this credit card, which by the way, I spend less than I ever have before when I was supporting myself.

Um, >> the credit cards for you to use for yourself, not for the business. It's for you to just live on. Is that what it's for? >> It's what I pay for our child.

Yeah, Jaden, she should be happy. >> Oh, boy. >> Exactly. But when he when he was pushing for a budget, I said, "Perfect.

can live within a budget." I mean, I made my first million before I was 20 and lost it all and don't want to do that again. Um, but I was like, "How

much do we make?" And have never even

been able to get an answer of what that number actually is. So, >> can I ask you a question beneath the question?

Oh, I guess >> you're real smart and you're real accomplished.

How much of you're trying to force this this fantasy into reality even against

the wishes of the person that you created a human with?

How much of this is

um I don't have another word off top of my head right now, but is embarrassment sunk cost fallacy.

I'm too smart and too accomplished. I've done too much to have fallen for this.

So, I got to make this work. Otherwise, it's gonna be tough to look myself in the mirror.

>> Probably more than I want to acknowledge. >> Okay, I want to let you off the hook for that, man. We've all made mistakes with money. We've all made mistakes in love.

We've all like gone all in on something.

Had it burn us. That's just that's a human experience. What I don't want you to do is like, you're an amazing woman and you've got a little kid now.

And I don't want you to end up in ash over trying to make something happen that this your your partner is being very clear. I do not want to be in a relationship with you unless it's 100% on my terms which means it's not a relationship.

>> Is that fair? >> That's fair. >> I'm heartbroken for you.

>> I I appreciate the directness more than you know. >> Yeah. I'm heartbroken for you. We'll be thinking about you in the next next right move you got to make. But this these are hard conversations moving forward. And by the way, he you're about to find out how how much he makes when you file for custody. You're you're about to all those documents are about to be laid out on the table. So there we go. >> So sorry.

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All right. All right. So, I just want to tell you guys right now, uh, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for listening to the show, for liking the show, for subscribing to it. You guys even go so far as to share it with your friends, which is even better if you're doing that.

Please keep doing it. It helps us out so so much, and we're grateful. It's a a small gesture that makes a huge huge impact. So again, if you've ever liked the show, you know, hit the little heart.

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Keep doing it. All right, let's go to Mac who's in Chicago, Illinois. Shone,

what's up, Mac?

>> Hey, how you guys doing? I'm a big fan of the show. Thanks for having me on.

>> Yeah, you bet. What's up?

My question is around investing.

I'm not sure what to do with my cash and

my extra money at the end of the month.

I am investing fully in my Roth 401k.

I'm doing 15% there and kind of maxing it out. >> Good. >> Um, but I I have a lot of extra cash

left over just sitting in my savings account and I feel like I should be investing. I don't know how to start. I

don't know what to buy. And there's there's definitely a little bit of fear behind it to because I I don't want to

make the wrong choices and I I don't want to lose it. So, I'm calling for some financial guidance.

>> Cool. I like this question. >> You're awesome, man. >> Yeah. >> Appreciate the call. >> Way to go. So, you're already maxing out a Roth 401k. Now, are you just maxing it out or is it 15% of your income?

Well, it actually comes out to 14 and a half% of my income is maxing out the legal limit. So, it's kind of >> Yes to both. >> Okay, good. Um, and you're at the right stage of investing, right? There's no debt. You have 3 to six months saved.

>> That's correct. I've got about 25K emergency fund. I don't have any debt. I It's so funny. I called the show about four years ago when I did have debt and um now I'm totally debtree.

>> Awesome. Ah, I love it. So good. Okay.

So, you got 25,000 emergency fund. How much did you say? You said there's extra sitting in your checking. That's just above and beyond. You need to invest it. How much is that?

>> Yes, it's currently $110,000.

And >> though it feels good, I know um that probably shouldn't be sitting in cash.

And so, that >> was really the genesis for my call. And and then on top of that, I'm able to save $2,500 a month. And I don't

continue doing that if >> that's correct. Yeah. >> So what's your tell before I tell you about the investing I'm want to get a a snapshot of your life. Tell me about your living situation. Are you renting?

Do you own a house?

>> Yes, I'm currently renting. And though I

would like to follow the baby steps and buy a house, I'm not in a position to do

so right now. I I am financially in a position to do so, but the way my life

currently is, I don't know where I want to live long term. I don't know where my next job is going to be within the company I'm in. I'm open to relocating to advance my career. So, I I really don't I'm not in a position to buy a house right now. >> What's the time frame on all that? Is it in the next two to three years?

>> Probably. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I will say, so I'm going to

pair your living situation with your investing question. I will say, um, you've got the 110,000. I think that's a great start for a down payment, but, you know, like I know, wherever you end up,

uh, in the United States real estate wise, it's going to cost you a pretty penny of a down payment to even get into the world. I'm looking over here at our uh you know on our Ramsey Trusted site where you can see the housing market trends and I'm just seeing that the national median median price for a home is 424,000. Right? So even with something like that, if you want to get that to 25% of your take-home, you're likely putting down around 60%. Right?

Like you're putting down a lot uh if even if you you know make 100,000 a year. So that's a lot of money. So part of me says what I would do if I were in your shoes is I would keep investing the 15% but as far as this 2500 in margin goes and as far as 110 I might keep it

in a high yield savings account and just keep plugging away until I know that when the time comes and I'm going to buy a house that's likely $400,000 that I can easily plop down a big enough down

payment that that thing is not too big of a piece of my world. Does that make sense?

It does make sense and and that's what I'm currently doing. Like all the cash I have is in a high yield savings account.

>> However, I think um about time

>> or you have something above that.

>> Okay, >> that's the 110. Um about your previous

question on timeline. I thought you meant like when do you think I would relocate and that would be in two to three years. In terms of when I think I'm going to buy a house, I really don't know. Um, that's that's something I just

haven't decided yet.

>> Well, I still like the idea of when the C time comes, you having like $250,000

or $200,000. I don't know, but it sounds like the type of work you do might cause you to be in an area that has higher real estate prices. Am I wrong?

>> That's correct. >> Okay. So, for that reason, that's why I'm saying I like that plan because you're getting the both the best of both worlds. What's your income, by the way, right now?

um about 170 to 180 grand a year.

>> Yeah, exactly. So, you have a really great income. That would be my plan.

Now, let's say you stack that up to 250,000. You're like, Jade, I really feel good with this. I'm going to keep that in a high yield. I'm still not ready to buy.

Then, yeah, I would look over and I'd probably in your case, it'd be easy for you to max out on a Roth IRA every year. You know, you throw 7,000 in there and let that grow. Now, as far as what to invest in, because I think I heard you ask that question. Uh, >> correct.

Yeah. >> Four types of mutual funds. And by the way, hopefully your 401k is spread out like this, too.

Uh, we're looking for growth funds. Uh, we're looking for growth in income.

We're looking for aggressive growth, and we're looking for international. You might hear that stated as uh you know mega cap, large cap, small cap, and you

know mixed markets or emerging markets.

So that's kind of how we do it. It's just it's just a way to make sure that you're very diverse. Everything's spread around. Some of them are higher risk profile than others and it all balances each other out and that's the way my money is invested and that's the way John's money is invested. So that's how I do it. But you also said asked a question at the beginning and your question was I want to make sure I don't lose this money.

>> Yeah. >> Part of investment is a risk.

>> Of course. Yeah. >> So you could put all of that in there and the Q4 Nvidia number comes in lower

and since the stock market's been propped up by 10 stocks the last year or maybe even longer, like it could be volatile, right? And so you that might go down and the day it goes down I'm still going to make my same contribution because I'm playing a long game with it. Right. >> That's correct. And I'm definitely going to continue to do my 401k. I that's

something I don't think about. It's definitely a long-term thing. Every check, you know, >> but um in terms of >> I like to think >> my current cash is is where I'm concerned. >> Yeah. I I I I guess I want to double click on what um Jade was saying. part

of investing or let me ask you this.

What are you gonna do with a big pile of money?

>> I don't know. I guess that's why I was calling. >> Well, I'm just saying like in 10 years or in 15 years, you're going to buy a place to live.

>> That's correct. Yeah. >> Right. And so like I just want to double click on what Jade said. I think it's so right. If you have a quarter million dollars in a high yield savings account, number one, some bros somewhere are going to come after you. Who cares?

Because here's what you'll have that they don't. $250,000 to do whatever you want whenever you want.

>> Yeah. >> And if you want to go put 25% down on a million dollar house, you can just write a check. >> You know who else can this country? Not very many people.

>> And if you want to pay put 50% down on a $500,000 house, great. Like you'll be able to just chip away at it and chip away at it. I love the idea of you having cash for like like real estate as part of your investment portfolio over time. You know what I'm saying?

Yes, I understand. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. >> What I don't want you to do, you're going to get itchy. Go ahead.

>> Is to get into like speculative stuff and crypto and Oh, maybe if I like

that's where I think you're going to get yourself in trouble.

>> Yeah. And that's definitely something I don't plan on participating in. Um, I think it's like I even have an initial fear of investing in the stock market with funds and I know I probably should be on top of my 401k.

>> Just remember it's the same it's the same that's in your 401k. So, if you're looking if you log in and and check out your 401k and you feel good about it, you feel good about the growth, you feel good about what you've seen that it's the same it's the same stocks. And if you're still unsure, you can check out a Smart Vest Pro to help you learn a little bit more. And we'll make sure you get that information from Christian when he picks up.

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Alrighty. Hannah in West Virginia.

Virginia. Virginia's for lovers. That's the saying. What's going on?

>> Hi guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a big fan. I appreciate it.

>> Well, we're happy to have you on.

>> So, thank you. So, my question is, how

do I eliminate or consolidate my debt as

a single mom? My monthly expenses are higher than my take-home pay.

>> Oo. Well, you know that I can tell you

all of the the tools all day, but that's

a math problem right there, Hannah.

>> Yes, I I know. I moved up to West

Virginia from Mississippi in the hopes that I would be making a little bit more money in the career path that I'm in.

>> And I don't know that I did the math the correct way before I moved up here.

>> What's your career? >> Yeah, >> I am in property management um for student housing. >> What's your income?

I make $77,500

a year before taxes and insurance and

everything >> before taxes. So after I mean what are you 4600?

>> I I bring home about 2,300 every two

weeks. So >> Okay. And then what does it cost to make your life? Is it your is it your rent that's too high? What's going on?

>> It is rent. It is daycare. um car note.

Um I had zero credit card debt moving up

here, but since I have moved here, I

have acrewed about six grand in credit card debt. >> And that's just closing the gap on your budget, right? I don't I don't think you're going out living loca.

>> Um >> I am not. >> Tell me tell me what you pay for daycare every month.

>> It is $1,400 a month.

>> Oh, mama. Tell me what you pay in rent every month.

$1,5.90.

>> Okay, that's not that bad. That could be worse. Is that a two-bedroom or a one?

>> It's two bedrooms. >> Okay. Um, how how how young is the child? I mean, they're daycare age, but how young?

>> My son is 18 months old.

>> I think you got to get a one-bedroom.

>> Oh, man. Is there a chance you can move?

I I've spent my career working with these um adjacent campus villages at

universities. Is there a chance you could get into a campus apartment for a while?

>> I where I work is not directly affiliated with the school.

>> I know. But with the with the adjacent campus community, would they give you a place?

>> I I've never heard of that.

>> I would ask to be honest with you.

>> I had never heard of it either until I asked. And then because I was in charge, I created it for myself. But my wife and I and our infant I mean our two-year-old toddler moved into a

a campus living environment for a year.

>> Okay. >> And it changed our whole life. >> Definitely. >> And it wasn't the best thing in the world and it was not how I drew it up, but it ended up d my 2-year-old son had like 175 college students as they're

just fawning over them all the time. It was a dream come true for him.

>> Yes. That's that's awesome. I I will definitely look into that. Thank you.

>> You know why? because it's going to quote unquote help you with the student experience and help you with marketing blah blah blah. You know all the right words you got to say.

>> Agreed. Yes, that is correct. Which they

the university technically considers any off-campus housing to be in, you know, like direct competition. >> I know. >> Um with the university and we're

actually not even allowed to market on campus, but anyway.

>> Well, if you could live in Do you live on your property?

>> I do not. No, >> that that that's what I'm talking about. Is there a possibility you can move on to the property?

>> Oh, yes. I would have to reach out to my

supervisor and all the things just to see if we had like a diff like a concession. >> Um we did get >> Yes, we'll do. >> Yeah, reach out today. >> We'll do. >> I love that idea. >> I know that there's it's a great idea.

Yes, I know that they there's like a list like a companywide list for however much they can all lot per property and all of my current staff lives on site.

So I >> fire somebody. I'm just kidding. But maybe >> I did two weeks ago. >> Oh, there you go.

>> You got to find a place to live. >> But >> but there's a bigger issue here and that is do you need to reconsider going back to Mississippi?

I relocated up here because I was not

going to make even this much money doing what I doing what I do in Mississippi.

>> Is it time to find a new career path?

>> I've been doing this for four years.

>> I know. But you can't afford to live.

>> That's right. >> If you were in another situation and you told me that you made $78,000 a year, I

I'd be like, "Okay, great. That's a fine that's a there's that's a fine income.

You didn't call me telling me that you're making 40 or even 52. I think the

pri the problem is twofold. Number one, you're in a season of higher expense whenever you're in a daycare season. I mean, John, you know, I know daycare is expensive and it's not forever, but it is some the most expensive four to five years of your life. Um, so that's thing number one. Thing number two is this car. Tell me about your car payment.

I my car note is $600 a month.

>> That's the big Yeah. How How different would your life be if you had that $600 back?

>> It would be much better.

>> Yeah. You wouldn't be putting it on a credit card every month, right?

>> Yes. I wouldn't have to put daycare on a credit card every month. >> All right. So, tell me tell me the situation. What do you owe on your car >> currently? >> I owe 24,000.

>> Uhhuh. And what is it worth?

Last time I looked, I believe it was worth about 13,000.

>> Oh boy. >> Gosh. >> And you're positive that's private sale?

>> That it's been a minute since I've looked, so don't quote me on that. It could be completely different, but round about 13,000. >> Do a little homework on that tonight. It sounds like you might have rolled some negative equity in there at some point, but just do a little homework. What other debt is there? Anything else besides the car and the credit card?

No, I I don't have any other debt other than the car loan and my credit card debt.

>> So, I go back to what I said before. Do you know anybody where you are or are you just brand new? No friends, no community yet?

>> No community yet. I'm working on it. I'm trying to get involved with a church in the area. Um, I packed myself and my son

up and we just This was my better

opportunity and how I took it. Where is

this child's father?

>> Not has never been involved. Um I told him I was, you know, pregnant. He told me to get an abortion and I haven't heard from him since. >> Okay. But he still has a financial responsibility for this kid.

>> He does. Yes. And I am working on that.

But >> that would help you significantly as well. >> Yes, it would. So, if you were to look up in 90 days and you're getting at least some money from deadbeat and

you're living on campus at a free or reduced rate or not on campus but on your property.

>> Mhm. >> And you go trade this car in and

you go to a local credit union and take out a $5,000 loan because you found some way to sell it and you're going to take you're going to owe 5,000 bucks to a credit union and you got a cheap just crummy car. Your whole life is different then, right?

Yes. >> Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Those are th I mean those are your your three homeworks. Number one is check out

the campus thing. If the campus thing doesn't work, then you at least have to go down to a onebedroom >> to save some money. You're going to save, you know, 300 bucks by going down to a onebedroom thing. Number two, like John said, yeah, we need to look into this car. Do some due diligence on that.

Yeah. See if you can get a loan for the difference. And you're buying like a $3,000 beater. um which is, you know,

that's what you're getting the loan for to cover the difference plus a little bit to get a car. >> Um >> yeah, that's that's what this is looking like. And then number three is like John said, tracking down deadbeat dad and getting what you can get from him because you need the money. I listen, I hear you. I know just bringing up the man's existence is is hurting you on the

inside cuz you're probably like, I don't want anything to do with him. Um, and I don't want to need his money, but you you could use it, right?

>> That is exactly how I am feeling. Yes.

And I always said that no amount of money, you know, was worth, you know, putting my kid in the hands of someone that I don't trust, >> but >> you're not going to put him in his hands. But on behalf of the dads who the greatest thing in our life is the privilege of taking care of our kids, um,

this guy's got a responsibility and there's hopefully the courts will step up and do the right thing and he needs to participate.

>> The only other thing you can do is try to figure out something you can do at night once the baby is home that you can do from home that's online. Maybe you edit papers or you do, you know, uh, copy editing or something that you can do on your own time to make money.

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is in Detroit, Michigan. Mark, what's up? >> Hey, how you doing, guys?

>> Doing great. How can we help?

>> So, I kind of have a weird question for you. So, quick history. Um, I was married 17 years. Um, I've been divorced about a year and a half. Um, and my

ex-wife and I, we followed the Dave Ramsey uh, financial model.

>> Uhhuh. >> Okay. Um, we we did it right. Like uh, I feel like our story is unique in a divorce in that >> we didn't walk away like ruined financially. >> Good. >> But well, yeah. But I feel very I guess disillusioned with it. I guess a little bit in that I feel like I we put our entire thought and everything into making sure we did everything right financially. >> Yeah. >> And we didn't fix anything else. And I

feel like now we're sitting here 17 years later, a couple of kids in high school, lives destroyed, and I don't

know what to do. >> It's like I have a stack of money.

>> I have retirement. So does she. Our kids

are fine. they're going to go to college no matter what happens.

>> Do you feel like >> you used this in place of dealing with your real issues? Is that what you're saying? You kind of both just focused on this instead of >> Yeah. I think it was like all I cared about was the money side of it. And I was so focused on making sure that the balance sheet was right that I I we I

lost everything else. And and I'm in a spot now where I I really don't know what I want to do. I mean, it it's like work doesn't really feel like it has a lot of meaning anymore, even though I do it and I go every day.

>> When was your How soon was your divorce over, brother? >> Uh, a year and a half ago.

>> Okay. Exhale, man. You still haven't even started the grieving process yet.

Like, you're still mad. >> Yeah. >> Well, I I feel like I failed. Um, like I

feel like like neither one of us did anything. Like I feel like it wasn't like some some neither one of us like

did some terrible thing or anything else that it was just we just got to a point where it was like after 17 years we just didn't even didn't even know who was

who. You know what I mean? We just we just both walked away and I don't know how to recover from that. I don't know what to do next. But my like I have a condo now. My kids are like well why don't we get a house? Why don't we build a house? I I can build any house we want but >> I I don't want I already had that. I don't want it again. You know what I mean? I I'm just really struggling with what now?

>> I'm going to tell you. I'm just going to be honest with you. You're not going to like my answer, dude, because you've built a really powerful like wall between you and and feeling something

and it's probably been there for a while.

And I you're you're going to keep spinning your wheels until you open the

door and let yourself feel this. And that feeling is probably going to be overwhelming because it's been there since you were a kid cuz somebody said if you go get good grades and make a bunch of money, then you're going to you're going to feel worth being loved.

And then you got married to somebody who you loved and cared about and y'all created an amazing family, but you were still trying to prove yourself to the guy in the mirror for all these years, man.

And until you acknowledge I'm worth

being loved and I'm worth more than the spreadsheet and the balance sheet and all if until you grieve that man it's it's you're going to continue to chase it.

Yeah. I just I just don't know like all I all I care about is my kids and like I I hate I only get to be a a dad half the time. I mean there's nothing I wouldn't do or give them or or give their mom or any like there's there's no you know what I mean? I I just want them to be good.

And I hate that, you know, hey, I get my week and then all of a sudden there's a week where I get to I >> I sit in my living I sit in my living room and I I can't go say good night to my kids. >> It's called grief.

>> Well, why? Like circle me back. Do you

and your ex are you all on good terms?

>> Yeah, we we co-parent great. Uh to be honest, we get along better after the divorce than we did for the 5 years leading up to it. >> Okay, then why not go sit in a coffee shop and say, "What have we done?"

Why not go sit in a coffee shop and say, "Hey, look, we chose, especially the last five years, a miserable marriage.

What if we chose something different?

because we both can

and we chose to walk away. There's no rule in the books that say two people who built a pretty amazing life but got so disconnected emotionally and relationally and spiritually that we just thought the next right move was just we we bought into the one of the most insidious cultural lies which is relationships just quote unquote run their course. It's bull crap. It's a lie. It's not true. At some point people say I quit.

And when you quit things, fine. But you can also start things.

>> Why Why wouldn't you do that?

>> I I don't know. I think it's a lot of years of of hurt, a lot of years of things that >> that's you you can't you cannot edit that story at all. There's a period after the end of that sentence. Why not today write a new one?

>> Can I ask a question mark? I mean, was was there a moment like was there infidelity? Was there one of those dropped. It was just we just drifted apart. >> It was just after a couple years of of sleeping in different rooms and just basically just not being that just

basically not caring about each other at all in either way and just getting to a point where it was just like, you know what, neither one of us can live like this. >> Okay. But you have to go back all the way up. You're you're too smart with the spreadsheet to not get what I'm trying to say here. >> Yeah. >> At some point, you chose to stop caring.

And that means you can choose to start

caring.

It's a choice. It is not a feeling. I don't care how much Hollywood says it is.

I just spent an entire weekend with 1,400 people, 600 plus couples up here in Nashville leading a marriage retreat where we taught people how to build rebuild your marriage from the floor up.

Now, I'm not trying to push you into getting remarried to her. What I want to tell you is the next choice you make is a choice.

The next thing you don't do is a choice to not do something. And I'm trying to empower you is what I'm trying to do.

But you know, and I know that 18 months later, sitting on the couch and just with your face in your hands, wanting to see your kids >> isn't the next right step.

Right? >> Going to see a therapist and saying, "I've not liked the guy I see in the mirror since I was second grade. I want to deal with this." Is

maybe calling your ex and saying, "What have I done?" is maybe calling and saying, "I miss the kids. Can I come by and see them in the evening because we're good co-parents?" Maybe that I don't know what the next right one is, but you have to regain your autonomy

here amidst this black hole of grief.

And at some point, dude, you have to

feel it

or your body will shut you down. And it feels like that's what it's doing to you right now. It's starting to spiral and spiral and spiral.

>> Yeah. There doesn't seem to be a lot of light at the end of the tunnel. >> That's right. And there can't be any light when every day you go home and sit on the couch in a dark room.

And what I'm trying here's what I'm trying to give you. I'm trying to give you your power back. That yes, like the

feelings you have are real and you're now a partner in this misery,

which means I'm trying to give you a good side to this. That means you can be a partner in walking towards a light

somewhere.

Do you get what I'm saying?

>> Yes, sir.

Do you believe you're worth even taking that step? Or are you just sitting at home thinking, "I failed my kids. I failed my wife. I failed everything. I failed myself." >> Well, there there's a lot of that. I'm not going to lie to you. >> Okay, then here's the path. >> Because I'm a guy that's your job is is to make it work. Okay. >> No matter what. >> Then good. Then we're going to make this one work. You're going to write yourself a letter tonight.

But two years ago, you you're going to write that guy a letter who's sitting at the divorce table and you're going to write a letter to yourself in 5 years about who the guy you're going to become because of the choice you started making today. Go make it happen, brother.

Welcome back to the show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm here hosting with Dr. John Deloney. I'm Jade Warshaw. Thanks for listening to the Ramsey Show. We've got Dave who's in Los Angeles, California. Hey Dave, how can we help?

>> Thank you so much. I just found you guys this weekend for the first time. So, forgive me if what I'm asking is something you've covered through the years, but you guys in it.

>> We're just glad you're with us, man.

>> On the phone. >> We're glad you're with us. >> I'm excited. >> Yeah, dude. No ap No apologies needed, man. Everybody's showing up new and pulling in at the same at their own pace. So, I'm glad you're here.

>> Excellent. Excellent. I'm a single father and I went through a major family crisis three years ago. um the type of

family crisis that is, you know, life or death. As a result, to to to co to deal

with the expenses of that, I went into $140,000 of credit card debt. Um and and I have

no regrets. I would do that again every day. >> Okay. >> Um because at the end of the day, the crisis was resolved. Um and that money

was well spent. However, the credit card debt is crazy. I mean,

some cards are $22,000, others are $32,000.

Um, and the interest on that ranges between 25% to about 32%. So,

>> it's killing me obviously. Um, I'm treading water, no disposable income, no backup money whatsoever. If I had another crisis, the type of real crisis,

I would drown because there's >> you know, just enough to do just every

bare minimum for the cards, um, and just

enough to put gas in the car and just enough for decent meals, but nothing

crazy, no vacations, etc.

>> What do you make? What do you make every month?

>> Um, I make a decent income. Um, I'm in

California, so you know, it may seem like a lot here, but it's not when you have a mortgage and all of the things.

And luckily, >> hit me with the number.

>> Oh, um, I I'll give you a yearly because Oh. Oh, no. Give me >> monthly. It's about um 4,200.

No, sorry. That's for paycheck. So, >> okay. 84. >> We're looking at 80. 84. Okay. Math was never my strength. >> That's all right. We're We're walking with you. So, you've got the 8,400 and like you said, you are in California, so I got to assume that your real estate is higher. You you own a house.

>> I do, and I fortunately have a 30-year

fixed rate with a really good um uh

interest, like really good or got that right before the pandemic. >> What do you pay every month for that mortgage?

>> Like, okay, so one paycheck goes to the mortgage. That's one of the paychecks.

And the other paycheck goes for the bills. >> So half of your blessed your mortgage is 50% of the problem is 50% of your take-home pay. Is that what you're saying? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Yes. >> So you got Yeah. Your house is not a blessing, brother. You got to change your mindset on it's not. It's killing you. >> The mortgage is a bigger problem than the credit card debt almost.

>> It's killing you.

I hate to tell you that. We're telling you that we love you, dude. But >> there's a little there's a little twist.

The mortgage normally won't be that high coming in March. when I went through the crisis, I couldn't pay my property taxes and I couldn't pay my um I couldn't pay my property taxes. >> So, you're doubling up right now. Is that what's happening?

>> Yeah. My mortgage company basically did an escrow and um and to pay for the back

taxes. >> Um my mortgage went up, but it's going to come down about $1,500

um in March. So, I'll have a little

breathing I'll have, you know, $1,500 of breathing space. Okay, >> which will put a dent in some of those credit cards, but you know, not as much

as I need because some of the interest is obviously going to gobble up.

>> Here's the thing. Here's what you're going to have to do. You're going to have to either, and this is me just being a direct because I care about you, okay? Either, >> okay, >> man, you are a smart guy. You make a good salary and your your heart is bigger than the moon, dude. You're an amazing guy and you're going to have to figure this out. Or if you if you get

with this crazy crew over here in Nashville, Tennessee, and we've got millions of people who've gone through this and it's worked, you're going to have to say, "I'm going to surrender all of the old ideas I had about things like

a good mortgage rate is always a blessing or the interest rate here and that, but we have a process and I promise you it will work if you'll follow it. But you got to go all in, okay?

And no other no other little influencory person can get away with what we say, which is it works 100% of the time if you'll run the plan. >> Okay, Jade's going to walk you through it. But you you just got to be all in.

>> How old's your kid? >> I um by the way, I I have two things that

were offered to me, which is the purpose of my call. So, I just want to make sure we get to those. But my child is 5 years old. >> Five. Okay, good to know.

>> Okay. Um, so I was just trying to attack

the first question that you had, which was seemed seemed like the credit card debt was an issue. I wanted to know what your time was like and what your ability is to earn more money. Knowing the age of your kid helps with that. You know, if you have a toddler at home, it's a lot different than if you have a 14-year-old at home. Um, but get to your what what were the other two parts of your question that you had?

So, the reason for my call is because I got two offers to deal with this and um not knowing what you've said previously on this topic. I am because I'm really tempted to go with either of these two.

>> Okay. >> Um because I don't have any more income

because I'm spending as a single dad the

the every minute of my life with my baby. I mean, she's the world and and

I'm all alone. >> Get into your question because we don't want to hit the clock on your question.

Got it. Okay. One agency hit me up and

said, "Look, we will help you. We will

negotiate all." >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. Don't do that. It's total scam. Total scam.

Promise. >> Okay. It's not that consol consolidation, but they said they would, you know, if I go, you know, don't pay them for 60 days.

>> That all that's going to do here, ask yourself two questions. If if you don't pay them, what's going to happen? Your credit's going to be destroyed. And during that time, all they're doing is setting you up for negotiations. If you really wanted to go that route, couldn't you do that yourself? If you wanted to say, you know what, I'm just not going to pay them. I'm going to default everything and then I'm going to settle everything. Couldn't you do that yourself if you wanted to? Yeah, sure.

You don't need anybody to do that for you. >> Oh, that did that. Okay. Okay. Good.

>> But don't do that.

>> You don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. I was trying to set you up for a world where you can say, "Okay, right now I'm making minimums. There's not much breathing room. what can I do to get more money in the door? And that would be my biggest question is what can I do to get more money in the door? You're right. It's going to be very tight for you um until March or April.

And there's part of you that if you want to, you know, take that horse to the Oldtown Road, that's fine. Uh cuz once you do, you're going to be well within, not well within, but you're going to be way closer to being able to keep this house about 600 bucks off. I don't think I'm going to make you sell the house over that just yet. But in the meantime,

you've got to be doing everything under the sun to get money. We can't just do

nothing for the next four months. You've really got to make sure that you are exhausting every single effort to get more money in. And what I would do if I were in your shoes is I'd say, "Okay, what do I need? What what would make me feel like I'm making a dent in this?

Is it $2,000 a month to put out the smallest credit card? Is it at $1,500 a month?" And I would work backwards from there. Can you take your kid with you to do some Door Dash and to do some Uber Eats? I think you can.

>> And to to to do some grocery runs for folks, that's what you've got to do because >> that's the only way you're paying this off. And I can tell you right now, there's not going to be anything comfortable about it. There's not going to be anything easy about it. There's not going to be anything about this that makes you look forward to it except knowing that at one point you're finally going to pay it off and it's going to be behind you for good. That's it.

All right. All right. Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything with your money, but you're just not getting anywhere? You ever feel like you're taking two steps forward, one step back?

Do you ever feel like Allan who called in a couple hours back and said, "I'm gazelle intense, but still not where you want to be with your money." Man, I know all about that. Uh maybe you've made the changes, maybe you've had a few wins, but something still feels off. It's not because you failed. It's because money is not just about math. And John, I've been saying that over and over uh across

the airwaves that money is not just

about math. Money is so completely emotional. I mean, you've probably heard us say it for years here that money touches every area of your life, right?

It touches your relationships with your spouse, your relationship with your kids. It touches your spirituality. It touches your career, >> your relationship with yourself, the shame, the embarrassment, the >> everything. >> And so when you listen to a show like this and you have a situation like

earlier when the guy called in and he said his wife didn't want to combine the money, remember? And we were trying to get to the bottom of that. Guaranteed is something emotional that happened. Whether it's something she observed as a kid in her parents household, something that happened with a boyfriend, there's always something behind it.

So when we say, "Hey, combine your finances," it's never as easy as just one, two, three, right? When we tell somebody, "Hey, you're going to have to sell that car." And they say, "Well, wait a minute. That was my gift to myself when I finally finished med school and that was huge accomplishment." That that's attached to a a feeling of achievement for me. It's not always easy, right?

There's always >> I I don't think we talk about right now.

>> It's it's wild, right? And we're getting more calls than ever about people making 70 grand, 80 grand, 100 grand that are just duct taping things together right now. Mhm.

>> Well, nobody talks about, and I'm so

glad that you do now, nobody talks about that sitting at the table feeling with your face in your hands, like you have

failed your kids, like you have failed your spouse, like you're just going to be just like everybody else in your family. >> That sense of >> like it's easy like I quote unquote know what to do next, right? Spend less and go make more. But if it was that simple, everybody would be doing that.

would be there is a wheelbarrow full of >> like emotions in there and nobody talks about that moment when the lights are dim in your kitchen by yourself with your hands in your face going I don't know how this going to work >> and man that's why I'm I'm glad you put that down man >> yeah John's talking about uh my new book that just came out called what no one tells you about money >> so good >> and it is it's the real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there which is me I've been there I've been in your situation just what John was talking about that moment where you look up and You go, "My life is not what I thought it was going to be, and I thought I would be XYZ by now.

I thought I should have this by now.

There's a lot of things that hit us. You feel frustrated, and you feel scared, and you feel angry, and you have shame and guilt. All of these things. I talk about it all in the book. And it's not just me pontificating. It's me giving you practical steps on how to get out.

John, that's what we do here. We tell you, we tell you the problem, but then we tell you step by step how to get out.

Get out. And it's the same thing with this. If you walk through the frameworks in this book, you are going to go, "Oh, oh, Jade, now I know what it is. I just

needed you to give me words for it. I didn't know what it was, and now I see it. Now I can see how that's been holding me back." Yes, I will do it. So, please, guys, this is the book. It's on pre-order now. It's $24.99. And if you order it now, you'll get $100 in free bonus items. You'll get the audio book.

You'll get early access to the ebook. Uh you'll also get uh I do a a video where I go through and do a financial checkup with you like one-on-one. We'll we'll walk through your numbers and it's really helpful. And guys, I'm going to do a book club of this book.

It's going to be a three-week book club where we're going to really unpack this thing together. So, if you've just felt like you needed something, you need somebody to grab your hand, I'm the one grabbing your hand. I'm reaching out. Grab it and I'm helping you.

Come on. Let's do this together. This is your year, man. Pre-order today at ramseysolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, of course, you already know.

Click the link in the description to get your copy. Guys, please don't wait on this.

I'm telling you, man. You can look at me. You can already tell it's going to be different. All right, Katon is in Denver, Colorado. Katon, how can we help, man? >> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

>> You bet. How can we help? Hey. Um, so my

question is, um, how do I start a

business as the sole provider to my family?

>> You don't sleep very much for the first couple of years.

>> Yeah, I kind of thought the same.

>> Yeah. >> Um, I just I just want to know I'm kind of a newer listener to the show and um

I've uh luckily I don't have any debt.

Um, and I know that's what you guys talk about a lot, which is awesome. And I'm lucky enough where somehow without the Ramsay plan, I got there. But I'm here.

>> Oh, you have common sense.

>> I >> You know how to do elementary school math. Congratulations, man. It's awesome, dude. >> Well, I'm here. And uh I just want to know like what would the baby steps for me look like? a different set of baby steps for starting a business and potentially walking away from uh my current career because I I I've worked really hard to get to the position where I'm at and I'm making over six figures now, which is awesome.

>> What six figures? Six figures can be a lot. It can be 101,000 or it can be 901,000. So, how many how many figures?

Tell me the real figures.

>> Okay, the real figures is um I'm making just over a hundred grand a year. Um, I'm in sales. So, half of that is commission, half of it is salary.

>> What business do you want to go start?

>> Um, I So, that's another part is the

business I would want to start. I I'm I'm a sales rep for a manufacturing company and I would essentially want to go into direct competition. Um, and the

issue with that is I I feel like I can't

start it unless I walk away from my current position. >> I think that's fair. I think that's right. And um that that's an integrous way to do that. >> So if you were to walk away from the job, what could you do um in the

meantime as a full-time job that makes money while you start building up your book of business doing the the the business you want to do?

>> Um well, I could pro I mean I've done a lot of things in the past. I was a bartender for a while. I worked I've done a bunch of different jobs, so I I'm sure I could figure something out. Um, but in in my industry without going into competition, I could probably make about$25 to $30 an hour while I'm

building this business.

>> Okay. Well, that's >> just get a M. Here's the deal. I want you to focus on the math problem.

>> You you are you married?

>> I am. Yeah. And we have two kids.

>> Okay. So, you and your spouse are going to sit down and just go up and here's here's how much money we need to survive for 24 months.

>> Okay. and then I'm going to I'm going to commit to making this much or if she wants to be a part of this dream too then I mean she's got to be a part of the dream but like contribute like then

I'm going to take on she's going to take on a second job or she's going to stop doing XY like here's how much it cost to run this house here's what we can cut for 24 months here's my investment in this thing and here's how we're going to know dollar amount is this being successful or not >> now you have no debt but do you have any money saved >> uh I do and I guess I guess The other wrench to throw is I'm renting right now.

>> That's not a wrench. It's fine.

>> So, I rent. Um, but I have about 70 grand in savings right now.

>> Okay. Yeah. I think that's I think that's the homework. Number one is make a list of what can I do in the meantime to bring in money, whether it's like you said in your field, you can, you know, make however many dollars an hour, but you need customers first, right?

So, that's not like you can start that necessarily tomorrow. Um, so we need to make a list of what we're going to do in the meantime until your business gets off the ground. And we need to figure out exactly what that number is.

Is it $5,000 a month that we need? Is it $6,250 a month that we need? And whatever that number is, now we work backwards in order to accomplish it using that list of skills and jobs that we said we were going to get. So that's what I would do.

And then just on the more practical side, you know, this is um I don't say this in the way that I don't believe in you because I actually I actually really do. I think you'll do this and you'll kill it.

here's what the plan is. Here's how long I think it's going to take to actually get this thing off the ground. Here's how long I'm willing to be in this amount of income bracket. Here's where it and here's also the point that we turn it off if for some reason it's not making money right.

Go ahead and put those boundaries around it because that's going to a light a fire for you to go quickly and really make stuff happen. And number two, it's going to make your wife go, "Okay, I can get behind this.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Hello, I'm John Deloney joined by Jade Warshaw.

>> Let's get into that Ramsey Show question of the day, shall we? >> We shall. >> All right, you already know it. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. When you when your private student loans are in default, it's easy to feel ashamed or stuck. But don't worry, Yi will not judge you. They'll help you rebuild, refinance, and regain control. So, just visit yrefi.com/ramsey.

Remember, that's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

and it's not available in all states.

>> This question comes from Paige in Missouri. Paige writes, "My husband and I are struggling to balance everything right now. We are $25,000 in debt which

will be paid off next year. Combined, we earn around $100,000 a year. And between rent, home expenses, and our one-year-old, it feels like we can never get ahead. I've thought about getting a second part-time job, but I feel guilty leaving my baby longer than I do now.

Man, that keeps coming up over and over and over and over, man. Should we put everything on hold, including parenting time, church obligations, and personal commitments to focus on paying off debt faster? Or is there a better way to balance faith, family, and finances without burning out? >> Oo, you know what? I really I I love this question, John, because it's so

real. It's >> just wrote a book about this question. Yeah, >> it's such a real thing. Um, and it's a question of priorities and I think it's a very difficult question because >> everything wants to be the priority, >> right? >> Everything does. Um, and I I've said this before. I think with you, you know, it's very easy to say, um, I want to prioritize getting out of debt.

>> Um, and then we we also say, well, I

also want to prioritize being a parent.

And then she's got some another laundry list. Well, what about my faith? What about my family? What about my church?

D. All right, let's pretend that you

have said the number one thing for me to do is I want to get out of debt. That's

number one thing. That's top priority.

It's going to butt up against other things that are saying, "But no, I want to be the top priority." So, you're you're faith feeling that now. You're feeling saying, "Well, wait a minute. I have a a one-year-old. Is it a one-year-old? I have a one-year-old.

What about them? If I pay off this debt, I'm not prioritizing them." But that's simply not true. There's different ways to show priority. Okay, you could say,

"Well, I'm not prioritizing my baby if I'm not spending time with them." But that's not true. There's ways to prioritize your family, like providing a roof over their head, like taking care of them, making sure there's food on the table, making sure you can be there for them in the long run, making sure that you don't make your retirement their burden, right? Let's stop saying that the only way that we make our family a priority is to be there every waking moment of the day. That's just not true.

And that's something that we have to like square up with in the mirror. if we ever want to get this thing done. You're right, John. This has popped up a couple of times today. And I just want to say that it's a harsh reality, but it's a true reality. And I can say that as a mom, um, it doesn't feel good to leave your kid. >> As a dad, I don't like leaving my kids.

I like hanging out with my kids. >> It doesn't feel good. But remembering what's true, and this is what I talk about in the book, the things that we tell you to do, I get it. Um, it sounds good in the moment.

Yeah, just pick up a side hustle, no problem. 700 bucks a month. Bam. But then when you actually go home and start thinking about it, you develop these fears of, well, what if I What's your biggest fear?

Oh my gosh, if I do that, my child is going to forget about me. I'm going to be the worst parent ever. They're going to end up in therapy. No.

And I I found, John, with with fears, there are they can be rational or irrational.

And a lot of times when I find that there's an irrational fear, it tends to be on the vague side. It's kind of like, oh, if I do this, it's going to ruin everything. >> Be specific. That's true.

>> What do you mean by that? Ruin everything. you know, if I do this, it's just, you know, my church obligations, my personal commit. No, no, no.

What do you mean? Because if we can dial it down to something true that's actual, actually rational, then we can figure it out. If you said to me, uh, Paige, well, here's the thing.

um, we have this thing on Wednesday nights at my church and I'm the one that's responsible for bringing the meal and if I don't bring the meal, then 70 people don't have, you know, food for Bible study, right? If that's that's a very specific problem, then I would say, well, can't you just call Natalie and ask her to bring the food? That's right. >> Right now, we can solve the problem. So, you have to ask yourself, do you even really want to solve the problem?

>> So, if you do, let's get specific.

Number one, let's figure out and let's accept, hey, there's more than one way that I can prioritize my family. And in this season, the way I prioritize is I make sure this debt is paid off and that they have a a life financially. And then number two, whatever it is I'm afraid of, can I please drill it down to something that's real and rational so that I can actually solve the problem and see if it's even true that this, you know what I'm saying? What it is that I'm spinning out in my brain.

So that's what you need to do here.

church, um, family balance, I put that

in quotes, personal commitments, let those be number two, number three, number four, number five, number six on personal commitment. And in this season, for this short period of time, let yourself prioritize putting your family first by getting your financials right.

And that's all I can say about that, John. I mean, >> yeah, it's it's it's short-term pain for long-term gain, man. >> Every time >> it's like, I'm going to this is going to be awful right now for the next five months getting >> we have $2,000 of margin or we have $200. We're going to we're going to scratch and claw. We're going to sell some stuff and we're going to look at do we have to have

I mean I'm talking about getting radical in people's homes like with the the the

way we live. Get radical about it.

>> Plea please do. And and I love that you said that because you're you're going to have to s I feel like I'm saying this all the time. You're going to have to sacrifice. There may be a season when you got to move your your thermostat down and you got to wear jackets and get under blankets and >> or you sell your furniture and and you sleep on an air mattress or you go down to one, right?

And and thank you for saying that, John, because I want you guys to know I'm never going to tell you something that I've not done myself, but you're talking to somebody who sold all the furniture in their house >> and I sold my house and moved into a dorm.

And I >> Thank you. >> We We We I drove a $3,000 truck. It's

like you do what you got to do what you got to do. >> A one we were a onecar household for 10 years. The people on this show are not just we're not just making it up. We're telling you the things that we would do and that's what the things we have done.

>> Yeah. The things that we've done. Exactly. This is what it takes. And

>> change requires change. That's all I can say. And it's rarely easy. It's never comfortable.

That's just part of it. And I feel like that's the drum that I'm beating today because I I want people to understand that when you're in a marathon, you will feel pain. Like that's just part of it, John. Again, this is in the book.

When you're running a marathon, some days you go out and it's sun, it's sunny and it's 70 and the birds are chirping and it's great. Same thing with your money. Some days you wake up, you're like, "Man, today feels a great day to pay some bills and you're paying the bills.

You're not mad about paying a little bit extra on your your spouse's student loan. You feel good about it. you know, the check came in today. Everything's good. But then other days on the marathon, you wake up, it's stormy outside, it's cold, it's rainy, it's the big raindrops that hit you in the eye when you run that you just they soak your clothes immediately. And it's the same thing with your money. Some days you wake up and you're like, "Really?

This is what I get? I've been working 10 years at a job I hate that I barely make

and this is what I get. A crappy car where the AC barely works." Right. And you want to throw up your hands and you want to quit, but you can't.

>> Yeah. >> You can't quit. You have to keep going.

You have to keep going. It's not easy.

And that's fine. It's good that it's not easy because then then at the end, what it produces in you, John, is somebody who can who can go the distance, who can sacrifice to win. Somebody who can look at things as what they are and go, you know what, that makes sense, that doesn't. I can take some of the emotion out of it. I can control the emotion.

It's not just, well, this doesn't feel good. It rarely does.

>> I was um last night I was in Chicago and I was sitting with a great comedian named Matt Taylor. We were talking and he was talking about first starting comedy and having to scratch enough

nickels together to either eat or to

have a place to sleep. But he he talked about where he is now. >> Mhm. >> And it's he says the strength he has now

is rests on the I had to figure it out

and so now I know what I'm made of and so things don't scare me in the now. And >> it was that sense of if you don't know what you're made of, I don't think I could go without the house being at 76°, but I promise you, you can, >> right? I I don't know how we could make it without if we sold these two recliners. And the I promise you I promise you, you'll be okay.

>> You'll be fine. Well, this people are adaptive and and that's the thing you have to remember. People I don't know. I always like likening it to CO, but there was a time of life where we wore masks over our faces >> and we got used to it >> everywhere.

>> Everywhere. And you get used. That's just how the human humans are. We we will adapt to anything and be like, "Okay, this is what it is.

I'll make it work." And yeah, that's how it is with your money. Therefore, a minute. >> Yeah. My grandmother didn't have Chick-fil-A.

She had chickens in the backyard. >> All right. >> That's how they did it. >> You'll go to sit where the recliner once was.

And the first time you'll fall back thinking it was there. And then after that, you'll learn, "Oh, it's not there anymore." And you get used to sitting someplace else because that's what you'll do and you'll be fine. Guys, keep going. Do not give up.

Do not give up.

All right, our scripture and quote of the day. He has shown you, oh mortal, what is good and what does the Lord require of you? to act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. That's Micah 6:8. James Clear said, "Every action you take is a vote for the type of person you wish to become." Love

it. >> That's such a great line. >> It is such a great line. It's so true.

It's your choice. Every single one of them. All right. Rex in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi, Rex.

>> Hey, how's it going?

>> Great. >> First of all, first of all, me and my friends big fans. Um, but uh current I

graduated college back in May. I had a little over $75,000 in debt, but uh I was blessed to promptly get a a well-paying job in my major and currently my expenses are uh I mean

effectively zero. I was wondering how to best capitalize on the situation and get those debts paid off as quick as possible. >> How are your expenses zero?

Uh yeah, so I mean after college moved back home and um uh pretty blessed that in my job I I'm constantly traveling and those travel expenses get um get paid for by my company. So I'm effectively besides having a girlfriend and you know doing stuff here and there playing golf effectively my you know mandatory expenses are zero currently.

>> Gotcha. What are you earning?

>> Uh so right you uh right now >> uh currently around 6,200 a month.

>> 6200 a month. Love that for you. Okay.

So, >> thank you. >> Listen, you you you you told me you have nothing else to pay for. >> You called the wrong show, brother. You're not going to like what we say. I tell you right now, >> right? >> Hit him with it, John.

>> Okay. You got You said you got a grown-up job. So, now you have to start doing grown-up stuff.

>> And that means, >> right, >> you make 6,200 bucks a month. That means in >> um Halloween of next year, you're going to be writing your last check >> for your student loans. Here's so my the

loans do get deferred. So, this is a no no for no I was going to say so I've been saving I've been saving since starting the job I've currently have I have about $25,000 saved and I was wondering do I just go right at it you know the the biggest loan >> your balance is now 50,000 congratulations >> you keep a thou keep a th000 aside >> uh keep a th000 aside that's baby step one you just need that there just in case something to fall back on it's not much clearly but yeah now you're now you're at 51,000 And then you can cash flow the rest.

Can you put $5,000 a month on this?

>> Uh that's currently what I what I am doing. >> That's amazing, brother. >> That's all you got to do there. Get it done. And listen, every >> I was just there's just so much conflicting information, you know, people, you know, telling people to invest and, you know, let the money work for you before getting to it. >> I'm I'm going to tell you like here's the deal. Everybody's going consider investing like building a house.

Everybody's going to be telling you, you want your house to look like this. No, you want a house look like this. You can't build a house in a hole. And you're in a hole right now, >> right? >> And every single person around you is

one word, broke.

>> Right? >> Every adult next to you at church broke.

>> The people you work with, their lives are owned by car companies and mortgage

companies and credit card companies.

They're owned.

And you just have to choose, brother.

I'm gonna simply do life a different way.

>> And this is me desperately. You can hear it in my voice. I'm desperately talking to 21-year-old me who got out of college, got my first big boy job, made a whole bunch of money, and I ended that first year out of college in more debt than I started.

And you're not you're not me. I'm just telling you like, dude, you have a chance to change the entire trajectory of your life. Can I tell you something else crazy?

>> Yes, sir. >> When I was your age, the job I have right now did not exist. There was no such thing as a podcast, YouTube, social media. >> Why do I tell you that?

The thing you have right now is not going to last forever, >> right? >> And so, if it goes way up or if it goes sideways or heaven forbid even goes down, put yourself in a position where you don't owe anybody anything in the world and you've got your own place. You got some money in the bank. So when whatever happens happens, you can it will be a rocket ship for you, not a push back even further.

You get what I'm saying, >> right? You're right. Absolutely, >> bro. You got it.

You got it right in front of you, man. You got like a You got like a path in front of you. Just Jade and I are sitting like you just got to walk that path. >> 10 months.

>> Just walk the path.

>> Or you can be even crazier. Do it more.

Do it more. >> Put 6,000 in a bunk and do it in eight months. Like just get it done, man.

>> Absolutely. All right, >> bro. You could be done, dude. Done.

Done. Done. Done. Done.

>> Do you think he's gonna do it? >> No, I know he's not. Bro, listen, Rex,

if you buy crypto, like what? Whatever, dude. >> No, I think Rex might do it because he did tell me that he could spend $5,000 on it. I think he might go on ahead and do it. All right. >> I think everyone's going to give him so much smoke like, I thought you were making money. Why are you broke all the time? He's I'm trying to get >> He doesn't have to tell him. All right.

Ben is in De Moine, Iowa. Don't tell him, Rex. Hey, what's up, Ben? How are you? >> Good. How are you guys doing? >> Good. How can we help?

>> That's good. Hey, uh I'm in college and uh I'm a young 20-year-old and uh just trying to figure out some ways, some practical tips to um really be frugal

with my money. How can I stay motivated uh with that instead of spending more?

>> So, how stay motivated?

>> Yeah, motivation is a is dumb.

>> I rely on motivation for almost nothing because it's fleeting. >> Yeah. What are you What are you asking for?

>> Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's just trying to just trying to save money um in the long run to for what uh have more in the end. >> Well, it can't just be for nothing. What's the money going to be for? >> It's too big, too amorphous of a goal.

>> No, I mean, I'd say for college mainly so I can pay that off.

>> Okay. So, what are you doing currently?

tell us about your life currently and what what you're trying to get to. Because if you're trying to save up to

pay off later student loans, then I would say, well, let's talk about paying cash for college now.

>> Okay. >> What are you trying to do? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I would say just saving up trying to pay for college and then like also I'm really not working anywhere so like how can I really be frugal with that so I don't like go spend it on other stuff that I maybe don't actually really need.

>> Don't spend it on on other stuff.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. How much money do you have? What do you how much do you make?

>> Uh I mean I have like 200 with me.

>> Okay. So you got 200 bucks?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. And how often do you make the 200?

Is it once a month? Once a week?

>> Uh, it's I make it once every two weeks.

>> Okay. So, you got 400 bucks a month and it's like what's the best way? If I were you, I'd throw this in a high yield savings account. When does school start?

>> When did it start? In August.

>> Okay. >> He's in class right now. >> And how much how much is it a semester?

Let's work backwards.

Uh, think it's >> Yeah. You don't even know,

>> right? >> Yeah. No, I don't. >> Yeah. Okay. Let's Let's get some real information, some facts in front of us.

>> You're asking us to do something for you, brother. With all due respect, you're asking us to do something for you that we can't do, >> which is >> if you got $200 in your pocket and you know you're going to spend it, then you have to have the discipline to put $200 in the bank >> or to give $200 to your friend. like you you've got to make choices for what you want to do.

>> Yeah, that's perfect. That's what I need. Yeah. >> Let's give you some homework. Uh number one, you're going to find out how much your tuition is >> so that you know, here's a here's something for me to aim at. Then once you know the tuition, then it's like, okay, what do I need to do to pull in um

you know, $1,500 a month so I can start to tackle some of this tuition, >> right? So now you can reverse engineer it and say, "What is that per month?

What is it per week?" And start working on that. Um, that's what I would do. Um,

right now is not the time to focus on investing or focus on anything. Uh, yeah, it's to save up to be able to pay cash because when next semester comes, you want to be able to pay cash for it. So, that that would be my biggest goal.

And if you can work some extra hours, it's okay to work part-time while you're in school. Studies show that you do better. You're a better manager of your time. So, I would do that. Um, how many hours are you working so far?

>> Um, like six usually per shift. I try to

get like 15 hours a week under my belt.

That'd be my goal. >> Or more. >> Okay. >> You know, start start with that. If your grades aren't suffering, up it a little bit, right? >> Or double it. >> Mhm. But if your grades start suffering, you need to pull back because that's the whole point. No point in paying for something that you're failing at, right?

>> Yep. Yeah. >> So, balance that accordingly. But that's that's exactly what I would do if I woke up in your shoes. And like John said, use that why, use that goal as your,

I'll use your word, motivation to do this. But it can't just be for the moment. You have to think about what life is going to feel like 4 years from now if you don't do it right. Do you want to wake up in a pile of uh 20,000 $25,000 of debt when this is all said and done?

40,000? I don't think so. So that's your motivation right there is the future. All right, guys.

Thanks for hanging out with us.

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## 73. Freedom Comes After the Hard Decisions | February 2, 2026


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:46:59 |

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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your [music] life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

I'm John Deloney joined by best-selling author, great human being, Jade Warshaw, and we're taking your calls [music] on money, work, life, all of it. 88255225

[music] to call in live. Let's go out to Charlotte, North Carolina, and talk to AJ. What's up, AJ?

>> Hey, how's everybody doing?

>> We're doing all right. How about you?

>> Uh, I definitely need help. Um, I have

over 170 well 137K in debt and I have

66K with the IRS and I have a extra 70k with um personal

um debt including cards, credit cards and student loans. And my problem is what me and my wife every year we make more money we owe the government more.

And with the 65k that we already owe the government, the interest piles on every month.

And I'm at a crossroad because I don't know which one should we start with first. Should it be the IRS or should it

be the personal credit? Because every year we go up and bracket with our

income, we owe a extra 8,000 that's

added on to the debt that we already owe with the IRS. So, it's kind of like it's a >> Well, why aren't you paying your taxes?

>> Why does it have to keep going up is what I'm saying. >> So, Oh, yeah. So, she's a RN and I have

two jobs. >> So, during that process, um I say when

we was 23, um had somebody jeny do our taxes and we

got audited. And since we got audited, it's been a ongoing cycle for the last five years of us not getting ahead of the IRS. >> I understand. So why is it that um Okay,

let me go back and answer your first question. Yes, IRS debt needs to come first, but going forward, you need to be

paying your taxes. And what I don't want to hear you say is that the excuse is we're making more money. It's a good thing to make more money. You don't want to make less money.

And if your tax bracket creeps up, it's only for the percentage more that you're making. It's not for your entire amount. Now I'm being taxed on. Do you see what I'm saying?

It's just the the the amount over that bracket that you're being taxed on. So I don't that's an excuse. I don't want you to keep leaning on that.

What needs >> I >> what needs to happen is you need to look at your withholding and find out why why is your why are you not paying enough taxes that you're owing so much at the end of each year and it's stacking up on you. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah, that definitely makes sense because uh she's Armen and I'm in uh supply chain. >> So um she had >> W2, right?

>> Yeah. But then we found out one of her jobs as a traveling nurse, it wasn't a W2. So that was >> But you didn't know that until after the fact.

>> Hey, that's what she told me. That's where we [laughter] went to.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And I was like, what? One year uh we owe

15k. >> Yeah. >> And like I said, and we pay every year and we wait till October and then it's just like when we file again, that same 8,000 we just paid, all right, is going back to this year. So I went and got

another job as a manager working night shift and that's an extra 60k and now

they put us over 220

and now we both like we don't have no dependence is just like how can we get

off the IRS train.

>> Yeah. So the making let me go back and say it again. Making more money is not the problem. Making more money if you're making $220,000 a year uh married filing

jointly great. Woohoo. Like that's great. You're rich, brother. You're rich. >> Thank you. >> You're rich.

>> The problem is, yes, you got into some hot water in the past. If she was working as a traveling nurse, she was probably bringing in some nice cash and you weren't paying taxes. Uh, that's that's that's what got you into trouble.

What you need to make sure is going forward, what is the tax status of both of you? Are you on the hook for your own as a contracted individual or are you W2 and your employer is is paying such? So, knowing that going forward, I think that you guys can sit down tonight and figure that out. Let's talk about how to tackle this debt. IRS needs to come first. Is it 65 or 56? I feel like you said both.

>> No. So, it is uh 65,296.58

right now. And every month, you know, the interest go up, >> right? So, let's pay fast enough to where you're paying more towards the actual amount. And I want to know, have you sat down and made some sort of a payment plan with them or are you just fighting for your life?

[clears throat] >> We made a uh payment plan with them. We don't own a house. So, like I said, it's just pretty much our W2s. And we uh pay

$1,100 a month to them.

>> Okay. You need to at $220,000 a year.

>> Triple that. Yes. Quadruple that.

>> Is there is there anything to say and I I'm using round numbers here. I'm not thinking about. Is there anything to say, hey, we make 220, let's live on 100, whatever that is after taxes. Can you do that in Charlotte?

>> No, because you got a car and uh that's

a,000 a month, too. The car >> your car, how much is your car worth?

>> Car worth is uh 50K.

>> And what do you owe on it?

>> Uh 50k. >> Okay. So today, this weekend, I love

that it's the weekend, John, because he's going to stroll right on down there. Yeah. And you're going to sell that car and then you're going to find I don't know with this next check coming up on the 15th cuz most of us get paid somewhere between the 1st and the 15th or the 30th and the 15th, you're going to take $4,000 and you're going to buy a beater. >> Oh, you were generous.

I was going to give him three, >> but four. >> I have a question though. How how did that works with my credit? because I just got the car last year.

So, >> does Dude, you're playing all these crazy games. Like, you're never going to get off the IRS train. You have to pay taxes. If you make money in any country on planet Earth, you pay taxes.

>> no, I was saying about the cars.

>> I know. I'm just saying like you're going to have to pay taxes. When it comes to a car, like, dude, you should not be worrying about your credit score and all that nonsense. You're way in the hole. Sell the car. It doesn't matter.

All your credit score is is your it is a it's a dating game for you and debt.

>> Okay, >> that's it. So, if you don't have any debt, you don't have a credit score. Nobody cares. Nobody It doesn't matter.

>> But what I'm trying to tell you is you're playing these other game like, "How do I get off of this? How do I get off this?" You got to go straight through the middle of this debt. Sell the car this weekend, dude. Buy a $4,000 car. And you're going to be the only dude making a quart million dollars in your neighborhood driving a $4,000 car.

And you're going to be the only dude in your neighborhood in a year or two who's completely free.

M. >> You get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, I like that better.

>> Yes, >> definitely.

Yeah. About the personal credit. Worry about that later. Right.

>> I think if today don't even worry about it because it's not doing anything for you. It's playing no role in this. The only thing it's done is gotten you in a heap of trouble.

Think about it. It got you in a car you can't afford. >> You're not b You haven't bought a house.

You're a renter. Your credit has it.

It's It's the least of your worries.

>> The government's taking money out of your check, dude.

>> Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? >> That is fact. >> Yeah, that is fair. >> What is your takehome every month? Like, what do y'all bring in?

>> 13,000.

>> Good grief, dude. Figure out how to live off of six. And that's being generous.

and take the other $10,000 a month and get this thing paid off in six months and stop owing the government money >> and then get on with your debt. Jade, what am I missing? >> Um, I think he's just been majoring in the minors.

>> So, it's time to focus on >> stepping over $100 bills to pick up nickels, as Lane Norton says.

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>> [music] >> All right, let's go out to Virginia Beach and talk to Renee. Hey Renee, what's going on?

>> Hi, how are you >> doing? Great. What's going on?

Um, so I recently filed for Chapter 7

bankruptcy and in the process my car was

re repossessed. So, um, right now I only

have $1,400 to my name. And I'm trying

to figure out if I should use this check to pay like the back fees to get the

vehicle back or if I should just try and

buy a vehicle in cash or a buy here pay

here. >> Oh boy. I'm sorry that you're going through that. So when they took the vehicle, have they have they already sold it? Is there already a deficit for it or what what have they told you about it? >> The vehicle right now is still on hold.

So, I'm still able to get it reinstated.

Um, but it would eat up that entire um

cash amount that I have.

[sighs] >> Okay. Um, is it just you? Do you have kids? Tell me more about your living situation.

>> Um, thankfully I do not have kids, so I only have to worry about myself. Um, my job is fairly flexible. Um, but I do

rely on my vehicle for my job. So, it's

hard for me to gauge what um how I

should invest or what the budget should be. >> Okay. What do you make? What is your monthly budget?

>> Um, I make about 3,000 a month.

>> Okay.

Okay. So, you need the vehicle and it's going to cost What's the exact amount that it's going to cost to get it back?

>> Uh, roughly $1,400. So, it's the it's

everything. Yeah.

And what I mean obviously what I guess

my question is what's changed in your situation because I what I'd rather do >> is maybe take this $1,400 add a little bit more to it and get a beater because what's changed about your situation that you'd suddenly be able to afford this vehicle is basically what I'm getting at.

>> Yeah. Um I guess nothing really has

changed. I had attempted to put some payments towards the end of the loan and

so I'm already kind of in a deficit as is. Um, and right now I guess like 1,400

is impossible for cash. It's mostly like vehicles with parts. So that's kind of where I'm struggling as far as what

budget would even be wise to look for.

Um, >> but but let's say you blow all your cash and get this thing back. You have no emergency fund. You have nothing. You just get this car back.

>> What in your life changes that says you're going to be able to make the payment next month? They just took it from you because you couldn't make the payments. >> Exactly.

>> Yeah, that's true. >> What's the vehicle What What's the vehicle worth before they took it? What?

>> Um, it's worth $10,000.

>> And what did you owe? but with

um like 10,500

and when I looked at the total loan it said I would end up paying 20,000 and the only reason I've been so attached to it is because it's a Toyota and I know they can last a long time so I guess I'm sort of afraid of that.

>> What was the payment before all this repo business?

>> 336 a month.

>> Okay. So, we were struggling to pay 336 a month. Now, I know you said you filed chapter 7. Has that already gone through? Like, what is what's that look like for you? What's the payment? Is there a monthly payment that you're making on everything or did they just take everything? Tell me tell me where you're at in that.

>> I just filed. So, they took my vehicle on Thursday and then or they took my

vehicle on Wednesday. I filed on Thursday and now they won't release it to me.

Well, what what's what's your financial picture that you had to file bankruptcy?

>> Oh, um, so mostly because of my job,

it's contract work. So, whenever I am

working, it's based on clients and we've been having issues with insurance with United Healthcare dropping people. So, it kind of fluctuates. So, when I say like I make 3,000 a month, that's really just an average.

>> That's all I'm asking. How much do you owe? >> Yeah. When you file bankruptcy, usually you have a bunch of debt that you're trying to clear out. So, we're trying to find out what what debt did you have and where did it come from? [snorts] >> Oh, it was mostly credit cards. I had probably around $60,000 in credit card debt. I have 90,000 in student loans,

10,000 on my vehicle, and then I also had a $20,000 personal loan.

>> Okay. So, the student loans remain. And so, what was cleared was the 60, the 10, and the 20. Obviously, they took the vehicle. So, when you file, they were going to take the car anyway, you know, like that that was going to happen anyway. Um, so you still got the $90,000

of student loans and now you just have no car to get to work, >> right? Is that where we're at today?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, I I stand I stand by what I said. I I think they probably took this car. Yeah. They might come after you for a deficit, but I don't think the

solution for you is to go back to paying a car payment. I think the solution for you is to go, "All right, I've got 3,000 bucks that I make a month. I've got to work like a crazy person, even if I need to take the bus for now, and I need to stack up like 4,000 bucks. I've got 14,000.

Let me see if I can double that." 1400, I'm sorry. Let me see if I can double that very quickly. There are $3,000 beaters out there. Just so you know, the car that I drive, it's a Cadillac SRX to 2013.

I've just had it for a really long time.

If I sold it today, whoever bought it would be getting a steal.

>> But that's what it's worth. >> Well, if you're out there, I'm buying.

[laughter] >> I'm just letting you know they're out there. So, don't >> you have to look for them, you know, but >> private dealer probably private sale Facebook marketplace. Go to a church.

Say, "Hey, is there anybody here selling a car? I'm in a bad jam. I mean, I got 3,000 bucks. who can sell me their car, right? And I think, you know, Yeah. Look for a Toyota, look for a a a Nissan, look for a Honda a Honda. Don't get a HHR. >> And [laughter] hey, what? >> Yeah. Or a Square Kia with one button that goes [laughter] just plays house music. Hey. Uh Okay. So, what do you do for a living?

>> Um I'm a mental health professional. So, I work with the youth. They're in home and I help them before they go into like

a facility or foster care, something like that. Are you licensed? >> And then I also >> Do you have LPC or an LMFT or something?

>> I'm working towards that. No, right now I just have a QMHP, but I'm I'm getting

my masters um in order to uh be in a

practice. >> Okay. So, you're you're you're continuing to add to this $90,000 student loan debt, >> unfortunately. Yes.

>> Okay.

Here's essentially what you what you've done with with the bankruptcy.

You've never turned the faucet off.

>> And so the faucet that buried you up to your eyeballs in debt that you called

and you filed bankruptcy for, they came with a big bucket and took some of that water out, but that faucet is still going full blast.

>> Yeah. >> You're going to find yourself in this exact same situation. And if you are able to navigate that system, which is a nightmare, helping those kids out, what

that means is you have skills at that a

local school district would want. If even if you had to go be a teacher on an emergency certification, if you had to go help out at um as a as a part-time

social worker, here's what I'm trying to tell you. You can't just sit there and say, "Well, they're taking my jobs away and I guess I'm just [clears throat] going to live in La La Land." You've got to start taking your skill set and start hitting the streets trying to find places where you can work. And you've got too much value to add. >> My long-term goal.

>> Here's the thing, and I say this with all respect. It doesn't matter what your long-term goal is right now cuz you you're you're like trying to explain to me and Jade what your beach house is going to look like. And your boat sank out from underneath you in the middle of the ocean. You got to swim to shore first. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. Well, I plan to move to um a

different location to get more clients.

um in June. So that's kind of why I'm like >> that. That's great. But but even even if you max out your earning potential, what is the max on your job? 50 grand, 60 grand. >> Yeah, that's true. >> And you're going to owe 125 when you're all said and done >> like schedules. Yeah.

>> I mean, >> I definitely need more income. You've set yourself up in with a with a with a

vicious math problem and your heart is too good and your skill set is too necessary >> for you to chain yourself to this and then go out in the world and say, "Hey, I'm here to help." You get what I'm saying? >> Mhm. And so I I think all you your

future dreams, your clients that you're serving now and in the future, everybody has served if you just hit pause for a second and clean up the mess that you've

the the big hole you've dug yourself.

You get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, [music] absolutely. >> And you're worth that.

It'll be real real real real real hard.

Jade, people get like a picture of what they want their life to be and it's like I'm going to do anything I can do to get there. Yeah.

>> And man, on the way,

you find yourself in a real mess. >> Yeah. She can get out of this mess, though. I believe you can. You've just got to start doing different things. If you want different results, >> you got to stop borrowing money.

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Sacramento, California. Let's talk to Amanda. Hey, Amanda. What's going on?

>> Hey, thank you for taking my call. How are you guys doing? >> We are freezing here in Nashville, but other than that, we're doing all right. What's going on with you? >> Good. Um, me and my partner are getting married in September.

>> Okay. And congratulations. Thank you.

We've been um we've both been on baby

step two since November. Um but we have

no fund for our wedding and we still want we want to cash flow our wedding.

So I just, you know, want some advice on what the best approach um would be moving forward.

>> Cool. I'm excited for you guys. So the wedding's in September. Uh you'll kind of have to do a couple of things at once. I think the first point is figuring out what's a fair amount of money to spend uh in ratio to the debt that you have. So kind of making a realistic number. How much debt do you guys have combined?

>> Combined we have 100,000.

>> Okay. And then what's your income combined? >> Combined um 200,000 a year.

>> Okay. Excellent. And so based on that, what do you think I'm sure there's a number that's floating around in your brain of a fair amount of money to spend on this wedding based on those figures?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um, our we already have

a budget going and and that's like topping off at 18,000 um and we have about 15,000 um left of

that budget >> to save >> to to save. Yes. >> So, you've saved 3,000. And you have 15 to go.

>> Well, uh, the 3,000 we have are the down

payments on the wedding venue and the caterer. >> Okay. Okay. Uh, I I for one think that's

a fair budget if you're committed to paying cash cuz I feel like by doing that you may still also be able to make some individual headway on your individual debts.

>> Yes, that's what I'm hoping.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I I this is going to sound strange, Amanda, but I want to applaud you for that budget. >> It's excellent. >> I thought you were going to come in and be like, "Well, we think we can pull it off for 250 grand." [laughter] So >> 18 18 grand in California tells me y'all are y'all are squeezing things pretty hard, right? >> I don't want to spend a whole lot of money on a wedding. This is my unfortunate my second my second wedding.

Um the first wedding was simple, but didn't spend a lot of money either. Um, but we have a lot of family members helping out as well. So, that's I think why we're able to keep it pretty low.

>> I I I think this is a great exercise for both of you to um commit to this 18

grand number and do not budge even if that means you both have to sacrifice something you you kind of wanted or you really want like whatever. But yeah, I'm with I'm with Jade. I think it's a good I think it's a good move.

>> Okay. So, uh, just continue to follow

the plan while saving some money each

month to cash flow the rest of the funds

throughout the next nine months.

>> Yeah. I mean, as much as you can get ahead, you know, part of planning the wedding is understanding what you've got to have, you know, for deposits and have ahead of time. So, as much as you can get ahead of that and not feel like you're behind the eightball, I think that's really good. So maybe sitting down with your husband and kind of plotting out um from now until September

what each month is going to look like, what each of you is going to contribute.

And that way you have a plan together.

And then you also are then able to make your plan him for his debt and you for your debt, how much you think that you're going to be able to put towards that. And I mean it's going to be a little bit it's not going to be perfect, but at least you kind of have um a sketch of what that's going to look like. >> Jade, I have a question for you. Would it make sense for there to be a single account here

that money gets put into or I'm going to come up with 9,000 and you come up with 9,000ish? >> I think uh [screaming] yeah, if you wanted to set up a fund, an account somewhere that's kind of like Switzerland and you put all the monies in there and and then everybody can see it and there's full transparency, I think that's good. And then each of you is responsible for certain tasks. It's like maybe you're like handling all the food and beverage and maybe he's handling all the I don't maybe he's handling nothing.

Maybe he just puts his money in the account. That's fine. Uh I like that idea. >> I I I I have and I'm glad you have that perspective.

My bias is so skewed because the only people who call me are when they've put all the money in the account and then they break up 3 weeks before the wedding and they don't know what to do. And so I know that's not the vast majority, but so my my bias is so skewed. So that's I think it's a good perspective. >> Yeah, that's I'm not opposed to that at all.

I was trying to think about how Sam and I did it and I really don't remember. So, I I like that idea. It's not bad. >> Very cool.

Hey, Tiffany. What's going on?

>> Hey, I'm good. How are y'all? >> Excellent. What's What's up?

>> So, I just finished Baby Step 3. Um, I work in the film industry and my income has decreased due to changes in the industry over the past three to five years. >> So, I went from making about 80K a year to now I make about 52K. Thanks.

>> So, bring home like 3,200. Um, I feel like I've hit a ceiling in my career.

And so, I'm preparing to get my MBA to gain more opportunity, but I still want to stay in my field. Um, but I also am not planning to take out student loans.

I'm looking at the scholarship route.

So, my question is, should I pause baby

step four and stockpile cash to live on

or should I try to start a side business? That's another thing I've been considering um to pay my bills while I'm in grad school. The first question is what is how how long have you been working in the industry?

>> Um, six years. >> Okay. So, what is an MBA going to give you that you seeing multiple businesses

run all at the same time? All like film

industry. There's so many different businesses happening all at the same time. I would think you have a grasp on

the quote unquote business world that very few people have. What would an NBA get you that you don't already have?

uh more opportunity specifically in the world of producing um on a studio level and that's where a lot more of the money um tends to come from and a lot of people who I've kind of talked to who have gone that track that's been a huge recommendation is to get my NBA.

>> Okay. So my second question would be can you not get your MBA and still continue to work at the same time?

>> Um that's the thing a lot of the scholarships that I'm looking into you have to be a full-time student. So, um it's not I guess it's not impossible, but it is it it would be a lot harder

where I'm not sure how, um successful I would be if I was still um if I was able to focus full-time on the program >> and it's two years.

>> Um if yeah, one program I'm looking at is two, another one is three.

>> Okay. So, even if you get a full ride, >> I want you to also calculate in the lost $52,000 per year.

>> Okay? >> So, it's going to cost you the tuition and your your you know, in the college

world, room and board, right? Like you're you're going to still have to live. You're still going to have to eat, right, and buy a computer and all that kind of stuff, >> but you're also going to have the missed opportunity of $104,000 in income over

two years. >> Yeah. And so just when you're

calculating out the ROI on what you think this is going to do for you and what you think like you're watching the film industry dissolve underneath you as everyone is across the country >> is getting into production putting all your eggs in that basket to the tune of 104,000 bucks minus two years in the workforce to then circle back like is it is that a good ROI downstream?

>> That sounds really tenuous to me. I I just have a hard and I may be totally wrong, uh, Tiffany, but I have a very hard time believing that an MBA in a classroom is going to be better than on the job experience.

Am I wrong?

>> Um, so the programs that I'm looking at with the film industry being a very much it's it's who you know slash it's where you go. It's also being able to tap into a very specific um what is it like network? Yeah, that's why I'm that's why I'm like seems like being out there meeting people, being on jobs, being on sets. I I don't know. I'm just I'm I'm

likening it to the music business. I would think that that's far more valuable than being in a classroom being taught concepts.

>> I I work both Jade and I work with film literally folks, men and women from the film industry that are here on staff

that video everything and all the things all the time and edit and cut and produce. And I don't know a single one of them has an NBA. >> I Yeah, I I I I'm not trying to You're

there. I'm not. But I've just it it doesn't feel it doesn't seem like it's going to return what you think it's going to return. And to John's point, it's a lot of time and money lost. I think if you can find a way to work while doing this and you're getting the getting it paid for for scholarships or for free, fine.

But to lose 3 years without work, I don't know about that.

>> Yeah, >> I might go back to the drawing board on that plan. And it I I I remember a lot of my students went to grad school because they were bored with their current lives or they didn't like their current jobs. And that's not a reason to pause for 2 or 3 years, take out a bunch of debt or not make an income. So just think all the way through it.

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[music]

You asked and we listened. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back by popular

demand. And currently, Nashville's covered up in ice right now, and I [music] would love to be out on a boat where it's warm. This is your moment to celebrate your debt freedom with Dave and the Ramsay personalities in the Western Caribbean. Share your story with Dave, swap jokes with George, sing karaoke with Jade, and play pickle ball with Ken, and more. If you're on Baby Step 4 or higher, join us March 14th through the 21st, 2027.

Save up to 300 bucks this week only when you book by February 1st. Cabins are limited. Lock in your spot with a $600 deposit. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramseyolutions.com/events

to learn more. Let's go out to Hton and

talk to John. Hey John, what's up brother?

>> Hey y'all. Um, so I am on baby step one,

maybe two and a half. I am $79,000 in

debt at 26. Um, I got fired in March of

2025 from my job. I've been living purely on my VA income, which is about $3,000 a month at this point. And I'm

still a certified paramedic. I'm going back to school with the VA once again.

And I just really feel like I'm behind

on life at this point and really don't know where to turn with as much debt as I'm in. >> Well, dude, I'm glad you called, man.

How old are you?

>> Uh, 26. >> 26. Um,

you got you got laid off in March. How come you haven't gone back to work?

>> Uh, I have been struggling to find jobs that can work with my schedule as a student. My job that I got fired from worked pretty well with my school schedule and it really didn't conflict much. And being a paramedic, uh, the only jobs I can really find are with fire departments or private ambulance companies that have pretty oddball schedules that don't really work with school. I have a few interviews with hospitals that are hiring paramedics here in Houston, but I haven't really found much success with getting past an interview.

>> What are you going to school for?

>> Okay. >> When are you finished?

>> Uh, I'll be finished in October of 2029.

Not October, December of 2029.

>> Oh, so you're just getting started.

>> Yeah. Can I can I So, anytime I feel squashed or I feel stuck between an eitheror decision, one of the things it's just a a practice I I I run myself through and my wife and I do it is we just dump a bunch of variables on the table just to remind ourselves we're not trapped.

>> Okay. >> Because you've trapped yourself.

>> Yeah. >> You trapped yourself into this is the only kind of job and has to have this kind of schedule and I have to get this degree in this area right now.

And I kind of am locked into where I go to school because I'm on VRE as a disabled veteran. So they determine my

schooling and everything like that because they consider it vocational rehab and that's the other side of it.

>> But you can't pause for a year and get your get your feet underneath you financially. >> Uh they would require me to pay back

what they've already set forth for school.

>> All right. Then if that if that's the case, then you're going to have to pause looking for paramedic jobs, especially since that's not what you're going to school for, and you're going to have to look at becoming a teller at a local bank. Um, learning finance from the floor. It's like sweeping the floors on up.

You're going have to let that you're going to have to let that dream go for a season because here's my concern. I can hear it in your voice.

>> Yeah. And that's like getting up and

going and contributing to a thing is way

more important than making sure it's in this the field that you want or you happen to have a certification because of your military all that kind of stuff.

Brother, you need to get up where people see you and they're like glad that you're there.

>> Yeah. >> Right. Especially if if you were telling me you're going to go to nursing school or you're going to do something else like that would make sense that you're trying to get a job in a hospital. Right now, you're just pausing the workforce.

>> Yeah. >> And you're getting a degree in a totally different field. So, start getting experience in that field. So, four years from now, you got four years working at a local bank doing stuff or a local credit union and you got a degree in finance and now you're ready to hit the road. Do you get what I'm saying?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Jay, talk to this this good man about his money situation. >> Tell me about the $79,000 of debt. What type of debt is that?

So, I have 14,000 in student loans from

paramedic school because I wasn't approved for the GI bill when I first got out of the service. So, I have 14,000 >> in um student debt. I have a $15,000

personal loan that I use to pay off all my credit cards at the time when I was working. It was I think the interest rates on it's only 5%.

>> Okay. It was a good good idea at the time uh because it helped ease a lot of

my burden. Instead of paying multiple banks, I was just paying one loan.

>> Understood. >> And my and it's my car that's $800 a

month as well. And that interest rate is 7%. >> What's the full balance on the car?

>> Uh $ 38,000.

>> Okay. Uh where's the rest? I got 68

here.

Uh the rest is

I think uh let me see my car here. I

might have miscalculated on my car. >> Is it 48?

>> It's 48. You're right. Yeah. >> Mhm. Okay. So that's the glaringly obvious thing right now. You're basically making 4,800 from the VA a year and your car is 48,000.

>> Yeah. >> So we have that's some the good news is that's something you can make right like this weekend. >> This weekend, brother.

Okay. >> Do you have any money saved anywhere?

>> I've spent my whole savings when I first got fired. >> Okay. >> Trying to keep afloat.

>> Okay. So, here's what here's what I think the plan of action is. First off, we're going to give you every dollar cuz I think that you don't have a budget.

And so, Christian's going to pick up.

We'll get you every dollar. And that's going to help you see with the $3,000 that you're currently making. To John's point, you're going to start making more, but today you make 3,000. We're going to see how much margin you have and we're going to set a plan for how quickly can you save up a little bit of cash so that you can get out of this $48,000 car and into a cash car that

you're maybe paying four or 5,000 bucks for. That's the plan. And so that's like

I want all forces focused and trained on that mission. And then once you do that, we can say okay now we just have 30,000 29,000 to clear out here. Um and we're going to start with whatever smallest.

If the student loans are broken up to pieces, we'll start with throwing any extra money uh on that smallest student loan and do it like that. So, this is something that you can get out of. What's going to really break you free is income. That's that is the magical elixir for this entire deal here. So, imagine your life, even if you just go get a job making 36 grand, another 3,000 bucks a month.

Think how that changes your life.

>> Yeah. If you suddenly have 6,000 bucks and especially if you're doing it towards the field you want to get into, even peripherally.

>> Yeah. >> Right. Like like cleaning the trash bins at a lo at a local credit union. It gets you in the door, right?

>> Yeah, it does. >> And so I I I would exhale and put my

dreams of being a paramedic to rest and

get on about. If that's what you want to do, finance for whatever reason, if that's what you want to do, I would put all my energy going that way.

>> Okay. How upside down are you on this truck?

>> Uh, it's um not that What do you mean by

upside down? >> Do you owe more on it than it's that then you could sell it for?

>> It's a 2026.

>> Um, >> what could you What do you think you could sell it for a private party?

>> Uh, I'm not even sure on that side.

>> So, if it's anything less than 48, that would mean you're upside down. So, let's say you owe 48, but when you look it up on Kelly Blue Book, Kelly Blue Book, it

says, I don't know, 46 or 45. That'd mean that you're $2 to $3,000 upside down on it.

>> Okie dokie. >> And don't look to go trade it in. Look to sell it to somebody on Facebook Marketplace.

And okay, >> put in the put in the ad. I'm a veteran selling my truck or my car. It's in great condition. Here's what I'm asking for it. And get that sucker sold. I mean, you'll feel the weight of this just leave your shoulders like almost overnight. >> And if you are upside down, uh what you would do, uh is you would just go over to the bank uh or credit union where wherever you can get somebody to loan you the 3,000 or whatever it is.

Hopefully, you're not upside down, but if you are, that's what you would do because you're going to need the full amount uh to get the title. So, if you sell it private party, you're going to need to put whatever you owe with it in

order to get that and get a clean title.

So, [music] >> yeah. So, thanks for the call, brother. Thank you for your service. And it it feels like you are way behind and you're under a huge mountain. The good news [music] is you're only 26. You got a long way to go. You're in school. You're doing the right things. You just got to get some right things in order and you got to get out from underneath that big giant car payment. This is [music] the Ramsy Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney joined by bestselling author and

wonderful human being Jade Warshaw taking your calls on money, life, your relationships, whatever you got going on, your work, all of it. 88 8255225.

Let's go out to Phoenix, Arizona, and talk to Shelby. Hey, Shelby. What's going on?

>> Hi. How's it going? >> We're doing great. How about you?

>> Doing good today. >> Excellent. Excellent. What's going on?

>> So, I am almost out of debt. I'm so close. I can taste it. >> Congratulations. How much have you paid off >> so far? Just over 50,000.

>> Oh my goodness. I'm amazing. Great work.

What's up?

So, I'm almost out of debt, but it feels like my mom wants to keep me in debt.

Every little thing that happens, she's offering me money. Oh, just pay me back $20 a month. Just pay me back. And I don't want to do that. I'm so close. I don't want to take more money, but at the same time, it would really help me.

>> Okay. So, this is like classic temptation. Um, of course, the idea sounds good, [laughter] but you've already decided it's not good for you to do that. So, it's a moot point, right?

>> And it's something like she did loan me some money recently. I had emergency dental work done and I have a thousands dollar $1,000 saved, no more than that.

And it was a point like I need it done, but my card will decline if I try to pay it. And I'm sitting here in the dentist chair.

>> And so she's she's offering you the money is what you're saying.

>> Yes. And I took that. It felt like I gave her a little bit and now it's bigger things. Oh, you have to pay 3,000 in taxes. Let me loan you money. just pay me back someday or >> you don't have to say yes.

>> I know and I don't know how to broach that cuz it it's coming from a good place. She wants to help me and yes it would help. >> This has nothing to do with her. >> I was going to say thank you John.

>> This has to do with you like cuz you you know who else is sitting right there wanting to offer you money? Visa, Mastercard, local bank.

And I it's all in the same vein of I'm

not going to borrow money anymore.

Especially from somebody I've got a close relationship to that would drive a wedge between us.

>> Yeah. And I told her like I I don't want you to be my lender. You're my mom.

>> What did you tell a gift I would graciously [laughter] take it? She just wants me to take it.

She's like, "Oh, it would help. Let me help." >> Of course it would help. Of course it would help. >> But that's not that's not what we're doing here.

>> Yeah. >> That's not what we're doing here. And I would even go back further.

I mean, walking into the dentist,

it it it that couldn't have surprised you, right?

>> It was it was an emergency dental work.

>> I I get that it was an emergency, but every dentist I've ever met has some sort of payment plan, some sort of program, some sort of I can give you $500 today. I can give you $1,000 today.

It's going to wipe out my emergency fund >> and then I'll give you like it I don't know any dentist that doesn't have some sort of plan because they deal with that all the time. >> Yeah. Nobody has >> my plan I had there was [laughter] 1,200 today and 1,200 next week which I couldn't afford. So she did help me but now it's even bigger thing. She wants to help me pay my taxes. She wants me to get veneers for my wedding.

>> Just the answer to all that is I'm so grateful but no thank you.

>> Okay, >> that's it. And then you are going to have to go through and get wedding photos without new veneers on.

>> Yeah. You're going to have to scratch and claw and work extra and do whatever to pay your taxes by, by the way. By April, right? >> Oh, no. I'm sorry. Yeah. When When are they Yeah, by April.

>> Yes. I need uh 3,000 by then.

>> Yeah, you can do that. You're so close.

How much do you have left?

>> Um, with the 2500 my mom just gave me,

it put me back up to 9,000 left.

>> Okay. How much do you make?

I make between 60 and 90 in a year. Most of my income is bonus. >> Okay. >> Bonus. But like last year, I made a 78.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. I mean, I I think the biggest part of this conversation is just you making a decision and drawing that line in the sand that you don't borrow money. And when you do that, um, it just opens up your mind to creating other scenarios

for solving your problems. And I think right now, as much as it kind of feels like my mom is doing this, my mom is doing this, I kind of think that you're putting out a radar, like I think you're putting out a home, what is it? A homing signal that [laughter] that it comes to you. Uh, and I think that's that's on

you to go, you know, I'm not I'm not looking for this and I don't want this and it's just nowhere in my in my view.

And I think that's going to help a lot. And then I think it's just you saying very clearly to your mom, "Thank you, but please don't keep offering me because honestly, I'm tempted by it and I don't want to be tempted. I really want to live a debtree lifestyle and I certainly don't want to owe you money." And I think that's that on that. Um, you got 9,000 to go. You've paid off 50.

You've done a great job. I have there's no doubt in my mind that you can't finish this up and and move on to the next steps. >> And it what I'm going to tell you right now is complete and total hogwash. Woo!

Woo! Okay, this has just been my experience with any sort of finish line.

Um, I whether it's I want to get a new degree, I'm trying to lose x amount of pounds, I want to be able to run a certain time on a on a mile, whatever the thing is, almost always,

right before I get to the end, and this is woowoo, the universe sends some huge

temptation my way.

And it's it it I I've just come to look at it as it's I'm being tested. Am I

really who I say I am?

>> Right. Yes. >> And you're so close to the end. And it just feels like there's a hu like you're so close. You've worked so hard. You've you've busted your butt to pay off 50 grand and now the temptation is like, are you really all in on this deal? And I can imagine after 50 grand, making 75.

You've been doing this a while, haven't you? I actually started

going crazy at my loans back in this last April. >> Okay. So, my guess is you're tired now and you're bored of this.

>> Oh, yeah. Yes. >> I make too much money to feel like I have no money. >> Okay. Just keep going.

>> Keep going. >> Yes. >> Keep going through the boring. Keep going through the tired. Keep going through the inconvenience. You're so close. You're almost there. Making 75 grand. And when are you going to be done with this thing? 3 months.

>> I hope so.

>> Will you commit to to J that you'll be done? >> Last out of the five loans.

>> Do what?

>> I only have two of the five loans left.

So I'm almost it's it's there.

>> What's your What's your margin every month? What are you putting towards this every month?

>> Um so where I am in the snowball right

now is 510. That's like all my paid off

minimums and the new minimums. And I'm throwing maybe another 7800 towards it a month. >> 7 to 800. Um, what's your take-home

every month?

>> Ends up being about $4,000 to $5,000

plus every other paycheck I get a bonus anywhere between 0 and $2,000.

>> Every other check you get a $2,000 bonus. So, wouldn't this go a little bit faster?

It feels like it. I had a lot of moving costs that put a halt in it and my last two bonuses have been $0.

>> Okay, understood. So, you're kind of you're feeling a little bit deflated, I think. >> Yeah. >> But I I think that the last couple of weeks or even the last couple of months are not an accurate snapshot of the intensity that you have been working this. I think you've just had a couple of things that have really uh made you feel some type of way. I just want to encourage you to keep going. This is going to be gone faster um than you think. I think you just have to remember

how quickly you were going before the dentist hit, before the move hit, before all those other things. This is going to be gone before you know it, and you're going to feel a major weight off. Hey, don't forget to replace your $1,000 emergency fund. I think that's also going to help you going forward. [music] >> And when you don't believe you can do it, remember Jade and I believe in you.

Keep going.

[music]

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Let's go out to Wilmington, Delaware, and talk to Jamie. What's up, Jamie?

>> Hi. >> How we doing?

>> Good. How are you? Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a huge fan.

>> Of course. Thanks for calling. Um, so my question is, um, I have a little bit of a dilemma and I don't know how to handle it because I've already tried it in a couple different ways, but my fiance and I have been together for 20 years and I know that sounds a lot. We're not married yet. Um, >> when did you get engaged? >> We bought a h we have been engaged for 12.

>> Nice. I have so many questions, but I won't even ask them. Go ahead.

>> Okay. Yeah, that's a whole different topic. Um, so he bought a house about 10

years ago. Um, I well actually seven

years ago. I've been living with him for 10. Anyhow, when it was kind of a rush

closing and I was never put on the deed or the loan for that matter cuz my credit was never that great. Well, recently my dad passed away within the last 5 years and he had everything in order when he passed and it was it was a burden off me and my family's shoulders and I'm trying to do the same, you know, for my kids. I know I'm not going to be here forever, but whenever I bring this

up to him like, "Hey, I think I should we should put my name on here in case something happens." He either pushes it aside or he kind of comes up with stuff like, you know, your credit's bad.

they're going to come and take the house or we'll get in an argument and you know

it it's he thinks I'm just after it for

the house and I'm not. Now, on a side note, in the deed there's a clause that is a first right of refusal because it's bumped up against a business's property.

>> Okay. >> So, if it if something happens, they

would actually get the first right to buy it if it doesn't come to me.

>> Interesting. So he could like send it to his family, but his family would turn around and say, "Okay, well, I'll sell it to you for dirt cheap." But they would have the first right of refusal before I would even get it. And [clears throat] I don't know how to address it because I've always brought it up. And like I said, it just keeps pushing aside, but I would like to have

some kind of security in knowing that if

anything happens to him that I would be able to have someplace to live.

>> What is Okay. Yes. Tell me the finance

side of it. Who is who pays for the house? >> He pays he he pays for the mortgage.

Like when I moved in, the deal was he would pay the mortgage and the utilities and I pay anything extra, groceries, um

cable, anything like that.

>> And will that be the fact after you get married as well?

>> Um yes.

>> And in your mind, uh do you guys have

separate bank accounts?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, here's what I'm going to say.

This is controvers. You're operating separate lives. You're just living in the same house because financially you're separate. You've spent 20 years,

12 years >> betrothed and have not committed. I can

part of me understands he's just going in line with the way everything's always been. You're separate. You're not on the mortgage. You're not on therefore you're not on the deed. My money's over here.

your money's over there. Uh, I can understand why it is that way. So, unless you guys are going to fully commit, and when I say fully, I John, this is your space. But unless you're going to do that, you're getting the spoils of what you guys have put in place.

>> I I my guess is >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> My guess is and and I can be way out to lunch here because every state is so different. My guess is you'd have a common law claim to this.

>> Um, that does not go into play anymore.

>> Okay. Well, here's here's the >> I never looked into that.

>> I I would look into it, but here is the

um under the guise of behavior as a language.

I think he is telling you loud and clear, this isn't your house. It will never be your house. You can live here, but this is not yours. [snorts] You're not going to have a claim to it. Stop asking me about it.

Right.

>> Yeah. >> Okay.

And there's something powerful about just clearing all of the ice and snow off the sidewalk and standing firm and saying, "This is what the sidewalk looks like." >> So, what am I supposed to do? Should I like save up and find something just in case something happens to him that I would be

>> I you have to ask yourself >> you you Is he the father of your children? >> No, he's not. >> Okay. How old [clears throat] are your kids? >> Um they're all adults. They're 27, 25, and 23. >> Okay. Do you have your own retirement, your own savings?

>> Yes. >> What does that look like?

>> Um well, my retirement is a pension.

[snorts] Um, and then I actually am on

baby step two, so my savings isn't um

that fantastic right now, but

>> Well, it should be a thousand bucks and you're trying to feverishly pay off debt. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I'm on step two and I'm I'm rolling with it and it feels wonderful right now. So, I'm hoping that that feeling stays for a long time. Th this is this is a gross simplification and I'm going to say it's going to sound rude and if we were talking in person I would take a lot longer before I said this but we've got to compress time because we're on the radio. Okay.

>> Yes. >> You've been playing house for two decades and at some point the play stops

and it feels like you are recognizing oh he could go in any day like all of us could. >> No. >> And I'm going to be left with nothing.

Yeah. >> And just to add to that, what you're requesting is a simple piece of paperwork >> to be added to the deed. That's easy. >> It's not much. It's not much. >> It's not. It's not at all.

>> And I even asked him too and I was like, "Well, if you're so concerned about it, then put one of the kids on it. You know, put one of the kids." I mean, I know they're not his biologically, but I mean, he he raised him. I mean, we've been together, like I said, 20 years, and my youngest is 23.

But but it's not just that though. It's not just that. He also hasn't married you. >> Yeah.

>> No. >> Because am I right? I don't want to I don't want to overstep. But would you have gotten married way sooner if he would have done it?

>> Um well, we were planning on getting married and that's like the whole other point is like when we got engaged, my oldest was just getting ready to start college. So, we did the whole financial aid thing and it would have really messed up my kids' financial aid. They got a lot of scholarships. They got a lot of grants >> because that would make a lot.

I understand. >> If we would have gotten married, that would have screwed up the kids' financial aid. >> So you figure, you know, every 2 years and they were going, >> but it's still been 12 years.

>> So I again, I'm not trying to overstep,

but that is saying something.

>> Yeah. Behavior is a language.

>> Okay. >> And so you here here's the thing. You can't make him do anything.

All you can decide is here is what I'm worth. Here's what I value. And I want

to be with people who think I have worth and who value me now and after they're gone.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Any self-respecting husband and

and I'm going to call him that even though y'all aren't officially married. Y'all been together for 20 years and >> yeah, >> whatever.

builds an entire ecosystem

so that his wife carries on when he's gone.

It's a It's a shame that what is it? 70 some% of households don't have a will.

It's embarrassing.

>> Yeah. >> Right. It It's a shame that you would you would possibly consider that when you die your house is going to go to somebody else and the old girlfriend's just going to be out on her own. It's it's it's it's so shameful. I'm embarrassed on behalf of men everywhere.

Yeah. I mean, and the property is beautiful, you know, and it's just >> it doesn't matter if it's a one-bedroom shack. It's been y'all's, but he he's on

the piece of paper. And anytime you bring it up, he makes you feel dumb for it. >> Let me say it this way. You're not crazy.

>> You just get to decide what's next.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And like Jade said, it's not a it's very it's it's it's a very low stress thing to add you to a deed.

Exactly.

[clears throat and snorts] >> It just is. >> But my guess is he has actively kept you

off the deed because this is his house that you are living in that he's paying for that he's going to pass on to his family. And if that's the case and you get to and you decide to stay with him, great. You need to make other opt make other plans with savings, paying off debt, getting yourself set up for the inevitable day when one of you till death does you all part, right? Um or you can say, "I'm worth more than this.

I'm I [music] just am. And I'm going to be with somebody who's going to care for me now and sets up a plan for me after I'm gone.

[music]

[music]

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[music]

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And it may not be available in all states. >> All right, today's question comes from Briana in Nevada. She says, "When I try to explain to my husband what a waste it is to eat out, he gets offended. I tell him, we can eat out for 100 bucks and never see that money again, or I can buy

groceries for 100 bucks and that lasts for a week." His response is always, "But eating out still fed you, so you

survived." What? Okay. He's trading the

convenience of eating out for our long-term goals of paying off debt and saving for a down payment. How can I convince him that eating out is keeping us from reaching our financial goals?

Okay, so I think what's actually at play

is just two sets of values here. Um,

he's willing to go to a certain extent to pay off debt and you're willing to be

to go beyond the extent that he's willing to go, if that makes sense. Um,

oh boy. Oh boy. Okay, so I wish these are the ones, John. I wish we had more to it.

I'd love to know how much debt they had. I'd love to know what their income is. I'd love to know a little bit more. >> I want to know who cooks in this house and maybe it's not great.

>> Yeah. Um >> we have to eat out. >> Honestly, facts. Like there's that that is a real part of it.

Some people some people eat to survive and eat to live and other people eat for enjoyment. I'm a person if it doesn't taste good, I I just I don't eat it. I'd rather eat two bites of something that's delicious than a whole meal of something that's terrible. Like I I just can't.

So my guess is you're probably going about this all wrong.

people. Um, I'm guessing it's a I'm

guessing you guys never aligned on why we're doing all of this to begin with.

>> That's it. To me, this looks like to me like like eating out has become the proxy war >> for the real issue, which is we're not aligned on >> why this is >> sacrificing to get to a common goal.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And and oh boy, let me just

tread into this for a second. And

the truth is there's two people, right?

Uh he has a set of values. You have a set of values. You want to align on how are we going to do our money. You have

to decide which hills you're going to die on cuz you're trying to get in many ways, you're trying to get a little deer to come to you and do these baby steps.

You don't want to scare it away. So, if everything else is like trucking along and it's like, "Hey, we're making progress. This is just the one area that they're a little bit reticent to to come on board." Oh, all right. Like, what what's a way that we can slowly make that transition versus bashing somebody on the head of you're doing 99% of the things I asked you to do? Where's the and and then you're you're slamming them for the 1%, right? Um maybe uncommon

opinion, but maybe that's >> maybe it's better than we think, right?

Does that do you >> say can we agree no appetizers, no drinks, >> and we don't have to get ribe eyes >> and do we have to eat out? Does it have to cost 100 bucks or can it cost 40 or could it cost 35? >> Right. >> I would just hate for this one thing to be the bone of contention when so many other things are maybe on track or hitting right. >> And it it usually is one of two things, right? It's that it is somebody that

you know amazing is the enemy of perfection, right? It's got to be perfect. Or this is one of many, many places where they're not aligned. This is just the easiest place for everybody to land.

Yes. Right. And we fight about we fight about eating out. We fight about money.

But there's that's just the tip of the iceberg. >> Yes. And and only only Briana knows that. If that's the case, then 100% there's there's many things at stake here.

But if truly you can look at the situation and go, it's like my husband making up the bed every day. He's making up the bed. He may not do it exactly to the tea the way I [laughter] make up the bed, >> but the man is making up the bed.

>> I'm just going to leave that right there. >> And let me flip that around. I make the

bed often. It's kind of like whoever's the last one out makes a bed.

>> And I notice sometimes that I come back in after making the bed, >> she's redone it. >> It's nicer than when I did it. Yeah. And that used to make me mad. I used to be like, "Oh, I'm not." And now it's like, you know what? She can do whatever she wants. She didn't say anything and she just went back in and remained. >> Tied it up. Awesome. Amazing. We both won. We both won. And here's the deal, Briana. At the end of the day, you don't have to go out.

>> Yeah. He could go by himself. >> You don't have to go out to eat. You can say, "I'm going to save that money and I want to uh stay committed to the goals that we made." And so, if you feel like you need to go out, great. Um, I'll just stay here and eat eat the napkins in the glove box because I guess somebody's got a >> It's leading by example, which is pretty awesome. I'll just have yogurt and granola and we'll call it or whatever.

Um, but you don't have to go. You don't have to go. You've got more autonomy in this thing than than you think you do.

Um, but I I don't know. I think there's a conversation beneath this conversation, which is we are we aligned on this deal. >> I agree. >> All right, let's go out to San Antonio, Texas, and talk to Lily. Hey, Lily.

What's going on?

>> Hi. Yes. So, I am

currently enrolled in um an online class

at GCU. I'm studying for education and

they have me with they put so for my

account they linked it with like the FAFSA subsidized loan. However, my mom

offered to take out equity on the house

>> and then pay her back.

>> Okay. What if you stopped doing everything that you're doing except for going to school and just doing that somewhere else?

>> Yeah. So, I currently also work full-time and the program at GCU is one

class every eight weeks and that really

works for >> Did you say at TCU?

>> GCU. Yeah. GCU online university.

>> Yeah. >> So, a a private online faith-based university.

>> Yes. >> Woo. very expensive. Correct.

>> Yes, it is.

>> And >> that's 1,500 per class.

>> Okay. >> Oh gosh. >> Whereas you could get a teaching certificate. And by the way, and I I don't want to be that guy, but I'm going to be that guy for a second.

>> I worked a full-time job and got two PhDs while working full-time jobs.

>> Okay. >> It was not fun. And had kids. It was not fun. It was miserable. >> Right. >> And we just like you you do it for a season and then you get on about your life. >> Right. Right. And so you're you're picking a very expensive place

and now it's all the way to where your mom's considering putting her house on the block.

>> Exactly. >> Please don't do that to her.

>> Exactly. No. And that's what I told her like I don't I don't want to do that.

>> Don't do this to yourself. Don't do this to like there's there's this tells me that you didn't look through a whole bunch of other options because there are other options in your area. >> Why does it have to be this one in your mind? In my mind, it's because it's online and it's more flexible.

>> Oh, so we're just looking for flexible online school. That's the criteria. I love that. That means there's tons of options. >> Tons of options.

>> Yes. Yeah. I I also saw the Western

Governor's University G. >> Yes. WGU.

>> How much cheaper is that one?

>> A lot. A lot. >> A lot. A lot. And by the way, I've worked at multiple faith-based universities. private schools. I love them. I'm a huge believer in them, but I'm not a believer in mortgaging your souls for it. I'm not a believer in your mom putting her house on the block for it. >> Exactly. >> Right.

>> And so, yeah, I I I would you you feel like you've boxed yourself in. So, I I mean, that's not why you called, but I I want you to be a teacher. We need more great teachers out there. We really really do.

I don't want you to go into debt up to

your eyeballs and then, you know, have your mom breathing down you. I I just The whole thing seems like a mess.

>> Exactly. And that's what Yeah. That that is why I was calling because I don't I didn't feel comfortable about it.

>> Yeah. And so I I didn't hear your original thing. Your FASA is linked to who? So, like I guess the way I did it when I applied to GCU, they linked my account

to do the the FAFSA subsidized loan. So,

it was already going to start cuz I got some money from the Pell Grant, but then after that money runs out, they were going to start putting it on the loan.

>> Yeah. But I bet the Pell Grant will cover it will cover um Western Governors.

>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And just quick question, do you guys recommend that one

or like >> I recommend here's what I recommend.

Don't borrow money.

>> Yeah, [music] exactly. >> And if you start with that as a chief principal, it narrows your options. And if you're really um if you really want to like determined to be a teacher, you'll find a way and you'll be tired and you'll be exhausted and you'll have to do things that are inconvenient, whatever, but you'll get out and you won't owe anybody anything. So that's what we recommend. [music] But check out check out other options if that's your criteria because there's many out there.

[music]

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Let's go back to Houston and talk to

Dustin. Hey Dustin, what's going on?

>> Hey John, how are you? >> I'm good brother. How are you man?

>> I'm doing well. It's a pleasure to talk to both of you. >> You too, man. >> A long time listener and a first-time caller. I just need some guidance. Um,

my question is, would you guys recommend me buying a house even though I don't like the job I'm currently in.

>> I am 28 years old, single, never

married, and no kids. I have a good down

payment of about $93,000,

various stock options of about 13,000,

44,000 in an IRA,

18,000 of 3 to six months of emergency fund, and 35,000 in 401k. As you guys

can tell, I have been saving money for

years at this point, and I'm just in a

job that I'm not really passionate about, and I need you your guidance, please. >> I mean, if you think that there's going to be the opportunity for you to move cities here coming up in the next 3 to 5

years, yeah, I might I might not I might not put down roots just yet. What What do you think the horizon would be for you moving jobs?

Um, I'm open to it. I've been based here

in Houston, um, my whole life, and I've always wanted to move cities, make a big

change like that. Um, >> what's holding you back? >> Ever? >> Uh, family. Uh, my family is I'm really close to my family and we're all within a 10-minute span of each other right

now. Currently live with my mom. Um, so

it's been a big blessing being here with her. Um, I'm just not really sure if I'm

ready to make that change.

>> It doesn't sound like it's you're at a place to buy a house yet. Um, and I I always have just an internal hesitation

anytime somebody says quote unquote they're not following their passion. Um,

unpack that for me a little bit. Do you hate your job?

>> It's a job. I'm I'm not passionate about it. >> Okay. What what what what have you created outside of work that makes you feel alive, that brings you joy, that hobbies, friends?

>> Hobbies. Um, honestly, this investing,

as you can tell, I've been I love investing. I love talking to friends about it. It's something I'm truly passionate about.

And originally whenever I went to school, I went to school for this. Um,

and things happened and I had to shift

gears.

Um, just not really sure where the

>> Here's where I'd rather you spend energy and and Jay, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this because you've you've made similar changes like I have. I I I

would prefer here's the thing. Any path you take is going to be challenging.

Staying at home challenging.

buying a house in Houston, staying in a great job that you just don't I mean, it's just a job and trading on the side because it lights you up and hanging out with dudes who like to trade and y'all like talk about that like that'll be challenging, too.

Packing up and moving to New Jersey, you're going to go with you, right? Or wherever city you end up in. And just for an adventure, you'll go with you.

So, your same concerns and insecurities, all stuff will go with you. That's going to be a challenge. And so you've paralyzed yourself with, I don't know about this. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I'm interested in you backing all the way out and asking yourself the old Mary Oliver quote. What am I going to do with my one reckless tiny little life?

Like, who do I want to be? What do I think is fun? What do I think is adventurous? You've set yourself up financially pretty amazingly.

And if if staying with your family is is most important, cool. It's going to come at a cost. And if going on adventure is most important, that's going to come at a cost. And if safety and security, like

with your job, even though you're not like wildly in love with it, that's going to come at a cost. Quitting this and going all in on a new career, that will come at a cost. So all all your paths are going to come at a cost. It's just you choosing which one do you want to do. You're not attached to anything else. >> Yeah. I mean, when I listen to what you said, it's kind of to me, obviously,

there's no wrong choice here, but the obvious is the life you have. You've been doing that. Like, you've tried it, so there's no unknown there. Why not do the thing that's the unknown? So, you can get some research on that.

>> Yeah. >> Right. If you stay where you are, you learn nothing new. But if you actually go try the things that you're thinking of, maybe I do want a different job. Maybe I do want a change of scenery. Go actually try it because Texas will be waiting for you if you ever want to go back.

>> Absolutely. >> What do you do for a job now?

>> I currently work in oil and gas.

>> Okay.

Last I checked, that's not going anywhere, right?

>> No, sir. >> And And you're pretty good at it.

>> I I believe so. >> Okay. So finding a place,

especially back in Houston, which is one of the oil and gas meccas, wouldn't be

super difficult. It might be hard to come right back in with your stock options and same salary and all that, but you'd find your way back because you're good at what you do.

>> Yes. >> Fair. >> Yes, sir. >> I It sounds to me, brother, like you've set yourself up for just a moment as this to to either take a risk like Jade says, you you know the life. I love that. like you you you know >> you already know this >> you know this life >> and if it's more more than not bringing

you the life that you want to have cool >> um or you set yourself up financially to really um jump off the bridge and see if

you can fly and if you hate it great we'll be back in six months we'll be back in a year we'll be back in two years um Jade one thing I hear a lot is

people think if I take this job or if I move to this city it just feels like forever Right. And it's there's some freedom in realizing >> no, it it doesn't have to be forever.

>> I mean, specifically in his case, he's single. He's completely unattached.

There's nothing keeping him. If he goes to New Jersey and hates it, there's nothing from keeping him from saying, "Well, let me try Montana. All right. I hate that.

Let me go to Utah." Right now, it's different when you, you know, are up and moving a family of four and everybody's dependent, you know, like obviously there's things that can make, uh, create more stakes there, but for a guy like this, he's 28. his family will be there. You know what I mean? He's got >> Listen, you got all the time in the world.

>> Yeah. >> I would I would go try it. In your case, why leave anything on the table? When we used to play basketball back in the day, they'd say, "Leave it all on the court." >> Yeah.

>> And it's the same thing. Like, don't be looking back thinking, "Man, I wish I I wonder what it would have been like if I had just fill in the blank." >> And normally, we take this call from folks who are 100 grand in debt, who've got kids, got other responsibilities, and we're like, "Whoa, slow down. Slow down. Slow down.

This man, you've done the exact opposite, Dustin. You've built yourself a great diving board platform to jump off from. So, yeah. I I final answer.

I say go. >> Yeah. Go. >> Go do something wild and set a deadline on it.

And always feel free to come back.

leap you've taken? >> Coming here. >> Coming here. Yeah, me too.

>> Yeah. I mean, all all of my career choices have been a leap, but this is the most recent one.

>> Yeah. It was a leap to for us to pack up from all of our friends and family and move across the country and then it was an even crazier leap to leave everything I knew to come to this math house.

>> I think the hardest thing well it might

be different for people but I think the community aspect like what he said my family's here my friends are here. I think that's the hard thing because uh it takes time to build those those things. You can go to a job and have a salary and have a check a month later right? uh you can put money down on a house and have that instantly, >> but the things that really make life life and make you you are the people and

the relationships and those are things that take a lot of time and so [snorts] the risk is greater. Um because it takes

time to see, okay, if I put in and put in and put in, am I going to get the reward after however many years? Maybe you will, maybe you won't. >> Right. Well, and my wife, if I could go back seven years ago when we moved to Nashville, uh, or eight years ago now,

that I that's what I would tell myself.

My wife immediately plugged in with a gang and it's it's been amazing. And I've been here 8 years and I'm just now settling

into, hey, the power has been off for 5 days. I got some guys I can call, right?

And so there is when you pack up and move and you leave family, leave friends, you have to be highly intentional about saying, "Not only do I have to get a job and not only do I have to turn the internet and the power on, I got to get a gang.

[music]

>> [snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney joined by Jade Warshaw taking your calls live. Let's go out to Las Vegas [music] and talk to Stephen. Hey Stephen, what's up man?

>> What's up John? How you doing buddy? >> I'm doing good brother. How can I help, ma'am? >> Well, uh, so I'll try to, uh, we'll make this, uh, brief. Uh, I, uh, my wife and I were on baby step two. Uh, we're making great progress. Matter of fact, earlier today, I made the last payment on a credit card. Got it paid off.

>> That a boy. Way to go, dude.

>> We did. We're getting honestly, I I'm loving it. And I told my wife, I don't care if I'm a multi-millionaire, I'm still going to be shopping at thrift stores. I don't see a reason to change that. >> Very good. >> Um, >> now what's going on right now is with my It's with my mother-in-law. Uh she my

wife and I have been married for several years. We have a son. Uh I work so she can stay home and be with our son and I'm very grateful to be able to do that.

Uh she is very very pushy when it comes to money and she's made some really stupid financial decisions and she's gotten she's tried to force my hand several times. Um when we when we first

got married I lived in Georgia. She moved in with me of course after we got married. >> Are you talking are you talking about your wife or your mother-in-law? Who's pushing? >> My wife. No, my my mother-in-law, Lord help us. No, my wife. Um, she uh so my

mother-in-law was pushing me to sell my house at a time when the market was down and we'd have been 20 grand in the hole had I sold it at that time. She tried to get my wife to leave me if I refused to sell it at that time. >> Oh boy. >> And she's pulled stunts like that several times and recently tried to get me to buy a house and I told her, "Look, the market is up.

If I buy it, the market's going to correct and we're going to lose a ton of money." >> Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Like, this has nothing to do with any of that stuff. The only thing that that matters here is you continuing to give your mother-in-law's wisdom and her advice and her threats and her demands. All of that is about power. That's not about home ownership.

>> It is. And it's my wife is kind of the good child. And so, she's always been scared to not do what my what her mom says. She's gotten a whole lot better. She's come a long way. I'm really proud of her. How does your mother-in-law even know the things that are going on [laughter] in your in your house?

>> Is your wife telling her? Is your wife talking to her about things that they shouldn't be talking about?

>> She's not said a whole lot, but she does tell her some things. And early on in our marriage, she told her too much. She's quit doing that. >> Good. >> Um >> Okay. She needs to be the one that tells her mom, "Hey, mom, thank you for the wisdom and the advice, but me and my husband got this." >> Yeah. And when I guess one of the

questions, part of the problem is I told my wife, look, we're going to have to draw some lines in the sand with your mom. And there's going to have to if she crosses those, there's going to be have to be consequences. >> Wait, why? Because why? Why don't you just let her mom say what she's going to say and you'll go on about your lives?

>> Yeah. What What's a consequence in your mind? >> Well, it's she's I I honestly don't know at the moment.

It's just that she's caused conflict between my wife and I over this. Okay.

But but you your your mother-in-law is becoming a proxy war for the real issue, which is are you and your wife aligned on how y'all want to do your life?

>> We are much more honestly the longer we've been married, the more aligned we are. >> Okay. I I want y'all to reenter back on that.

My My dad and I see different differences in politics. We see differences in economic. We see differences all over the place.

>> And so when I'm around him, you know what he does? He does what a dad should do, which is he tries to tell me what I need to know. [laughter] Right. And and I get to decide I'm

cutting you off or I can listen and there there's been some some some wisdom in some of the stuff he's told me over the years. In fact, there's been a ton of wisdom and a lot of it I go that's great, man. As for you in your house, you and my mom, y'all get to do that. But me and my house, me and my wife, we're going to do something different. It's great.

>> Right. >> Right. >> Fair enough. Fair enough. And and if if she's actively trying to divide you and your wife, >> that's the real issue is that your wife has to put her foot down on that because it's her mom, >> right? >> And if she won't, then you and your wife have an issue, not you and your mother-in-law.

>> And you know, we've come along like like I said, we don't really have as much near as much of an issue anymore. I mean, my wife is >> Oh, whoops.

Go ahead, brother. Sorry, man.

>> No, it's all right. My wife has kind of come into her own quite a bit. She was very scared to make her mom mad. When we first got married, she's no longer that way. >> Sure. And that's common. That's common.

>> So, it's gotten better, but something is it's even though it's gotten better, you're still pushed to the point of calling a radio show. >> Yeah. Your mom your your mother-in-law can't force you to do anything legally, morally, ethically, spirit, like you you can't be you can't feel forced, right?

You can just hang up the phone.

>> Right. Fair enough. I I think that's a

place to I think that's where we need to start. We're working on life goals and

uh we're going to homeschool our son and I mean we're very old school traditional Christians, conservatives and uh >> great. I mean but it only matters if you and your wife are aligned on this and then when y'all get aligned on it then y'all decide together who gets a vote,

>> right? And I my my position is if you're not paying the bills, you don't get a vote. I mean >> what does that mean? Yeah. I I >> Well, if you're not part of our household, I should clarify that because my wife stays home with my son. >> That's what I was thinking. Okay.

>> She clearly gets a token. I mean, she's working regardless. >> Well, listen. And for whatever it's worth, I've got other men and women in my life who don't pay my bills that I

have given permission to speak into my life. If they see me acting in a way or saying things that they're like, "Hey, that's not you." Or, "You're about to do something stupid with your money." Like, I've given them permission. I'm not just gonna like loan ranger this thing.

That's how people like just ride their horse off the cliff.

But all I have to say is >> you can't do that until you and your wife are aligned on who we are going to be.

>> That's that's good advice. Um I mean our

I our pastor's been a great help to us and I've been forever grateful for his wisdom. I've been grateful for you guys wisdom because following the baby steps I'm really loving it.

>> Well, that's awesome. But but but I think personally and Dave and I have talked about this over dinner before multiple times. I think the magic of the baby steps is in married couples, it it

it's a way to force alignment or ways to not force alignment but to force discussions about alignment.

And when a when a when a couple gets aligned, there's just no stopping them.

But if one of y'all is all aligned on

your values and you're dragging somebody else along on these baby steps and their and their mother keeps calling to pull you off and it becomes even a conversation that tells me you and your wife aren't fully aligned on where are we going and who are we going to be and then who gets a vote into the steps we're taking.

>> You've given me some things to think about. >> Is that fair? >> Yeah. No, it's very fair. You give me some things to think about. Actually, it's >> Can I tell you a way to do this? Cuz I have a feeling you're going to go home and tell your wife, "You're not aligned with me." And that would be the wrong way to do it. >> No, not at all. Not at all. Absolutely.

I want >> Here's what I want you to do. I want you, not her, I want you to call

somebody to watch your son for about three or four hours, one Saturday morning. You set it up. And then you take your wife and say, "I want us to have a dreaming retreat.

We're into this baby. We're into this baby steps thing. We're paying off our debts." But we started sprinting before we really counted the cost of how far we're going to run here. Who do we want to be? And y'all dream about what you want your house to look like, what town you want to live in. As a part of that, [music] we're going to dream about who gets a vote in our life.

>> And y'all come away from that retreat totally unified. You get what I'm saying? I do. I love it. My wife will love that, too. >> Awesome. Excellent. My brother, deciding

[music] um the identity first. I'm going to be the kind of person who takes care of themsel. I'm going to be the kind of person borrow money. Then I'm going to reverse engineer goals and steps that allow me to get to that identity, not just take off sprinting to follow the next goal. Right? If you chase an identity with action, you'll get there.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> to Baltimore to talk to Catherine. Hey, Catherine. What's up?

>> Hi.

>> What's going on?

>> Hi. Um, I am a single mom and um my

child support ended abruptly last month.

Um, and I'm just had um I have a

mortgage and I have $77,000 in a heliloc

that I just opened and I'm just trying to figure out how to get everything

um paid um the debt and everything. It's

just very overwhelming. I knew my child support would end probably June. I was

looking for part-time jobs to compensate

for the loss. Um but this was just very

um unexpected and I just um have a lot

of stress. >> How much was it?

>> Um the child support was 900 a month.

That was a big amount >> for one kid or two or

>> um it was for two. However, he didn't

end it when my son turned 18. And I don't know why. Um >> the judge or your >> the judge or your ex? the ex-husband.

>> What's what's the court order?

>> Um, till they're 18.

>> Okay. So, can you fight this if he is

choosing not to early? Like, what's the >> what's the situation surrounding him not paying until 18?

>> I don't know. His um current wife does not allow him to talk to me. My guess is he kept paying on your other child and there was a net dollar amount.

>> Yeah, possibly. >> Once he crossed that net dollar amount threshold, it stopped.

>> Okay, >> that that that'd be my guess. Have you contacted an an attorney?

Um, I actually went to child the child support um, office building and they

said because she's still in high school under Maryland law, he cannot just cut the child support. Um, so I had to get

an official document from the school and provide it. Um, but for right now, I'm

out that extra $900 a month with all

these other bills coming in.

>> Okay. >> Okay. I I have a feeling, don't get me wrong, uh he should pay for the the

kids. Um but I have a feeling there's a lot more that's part of this equation that's making this even tougher. You mentioned a $77,000 heliloc. Can you tell me a little bit more about your personal finance, what you're earning, um how old the kids are, all of that stuff? >> Yeah, sure. Um my my kids are 18 and 24.

Only the 18-year-old lives at home. I own my house. Um I owe 200 the first

mortgage and 77 on the heliloc.

>> Okay. >> Um I have a $10,000 personal loan I'm

paying on. Um I have a car payment. Um I owe I

think $20,000 still on my car. Um I do

have $4,700 in savings, so that's good.

>> What do you do for living?

Um, I am a CNA, certified nursing

assistant. >> Okay. What does that bring you in every month? >> Um, about 3,200.

>> Okay. And how much is your mortgage again? >> Uh, my mortgage is $12.91.

>> Okay. >> Plus the plus the helock.

>> Yeah. Then the helock is $4.90.

>> Oh, mama, that's what's getting you.

>> Why did you take out a $77,000 helock?

um because I had a credit card that and

the minimum payments were getting up to

like 300 to 350 a month.

>> So you traded 350 a month for 490 a month.

>> Um well that I mean that was just one credit card.

>> Okay. >> So overall it was like almost $1,000 in

minimum payments.

>> Okay. So we can't we can't really go back. But the logic there was flawed.

Um, is what John is trying to tell you.

Because now we're paying 1,800 bucks a month to live where we were once paying 1,291 and it was way more reasonable with your income. Woo girly. I think

that you put yourself in a really tough spot because this is now your home that's on the line and it is now half of

your income. Um, more than half of your income. So, for that reason,

unless you see your income going up

drastically here soon, you put your

house on the line cuz you you can't have your your your mortgage can't be 50% of your take-home pay. >> How much equity do you have in this house?

>> Um, high 95,000.

>> Oh, so you barely have enough to even clear the HELOC.

Sheesh. >> Okay. Um, here's here's the options. I'm going to just shoot you straight. Option one is you figure out a way to increase your income drastically because here's the thing. Your child's 18. Even if the child support lasted until June, it was still going to go away, which means by

June, you still would have been in the same situation with your income. Uh, so

while I wish that you were still getting that money, in the grand scheme of it, it's kind of neither here nor there, um, it was buying you a little bit of time here. So unless we can figure out a path to get your income up very very much,

you might have to sell this house. And when you would sell it, what you would do is pay off the $77,000 heliloc and

maybe have a little bit left to clear

out some of this personal loan, possibly all of it. It just depends on what the fees are. And then what you could turn around and do is sell your car and use

the 4,700 you have saved and buy a cash beater and you're completely square >> and you're starting you're debtree but you're starting from scratch and you're rebuilding something really new and something really awesome.

>> And I just told you a lot.

>> I just wrecked I just up I I realize what I did and I don't expect you to go okay. I expect you to go home and >> sob. Yeah, it's hard.

>> Yeah, >> but I mean it when was the divorce?

>> Oh, 2010.

>> Okay.

It sounds like there's been some sort of

[sighs] I don't want to say punting, but some sort of kind of bending around reality that over the last what 16 years

you've racked up $75,000 in credit cards,

bought a car you couldn't afford, tried to keep this house together for the kid.

You get what I'm saying? Like I I get it. And man, I talked to so many folks who've been divorced and are trying to hang on to what was and trying to give the kids a good life and I all that stuff is admirable and noble, but you just reached a line where like the math isn't working for you anymore. You have a you have a big math problem.

>> Yeah. >> Are you working full-time?

>> Yes. >> Okay.

The I guess the other opportunity like the other option like Jade said is you just try to hang on to everything and

you decide for the next three to five years you're going to work every overtime shift. You're going to work Saturdays, Sundays and you're just going to live that life

and that's going to be that's a very tough life sustainability wise because even if you clear out all this debt then you would be tackling the mortgage and you're still at 50%. So, the margin that you have to put towards this debt, I mean, you'd have to go crazy uh with overtime and you'd have to do it for quite a while. So, just putting that putting that out there if you're up for it, more power to you. But, um it's a

journey, >> right?

No, I understand. Yeah.

>> I hate this for you.

>> It is what it is, I think.

>> Yeah. Have you sat down with your kids and just kind of been honest about here's my financial position?

>> Um, yes. I mean, the one that lives with me. Yes. >> Sure. Okay.

Yeah. I mean that Go ahead.

>> I was going to say there's part of it.

It's a perspective thing. Obviously, I the suggestions I gave are neither fun,

but >> there's part of that I I kind of like the idea of a fresh start. That could be really a great adventure for you.

um and scary but also really really

great. The the the debt is gone, the mistakes are gone, the kids are gone, and you're just now out here living your best life. That's pretty awesome.

>> Well, and I can say my wife and I did very similar. We sold the house, sold stuff, moved into a dorm. You've made similar sacrifices. And it looked at the time to my friends and community were crazy >> and but it was a path to freedom. It was the fastest path I could get to. Yeah.

And >> at [music] how fast do I what's the what's the fastest way to get to between two lines, right? I'm just going to fly. >> It's [music] not taking a step backwards. It's taking many many steps very quickly forward >> to get to service. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's a tough pill to swallow, but that's the mathematical reality.

[music]

[music]

Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New year, new goals. We love it.

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[music]

Everyone [music] needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck. And it's hard to find agents who know what they're talking about. Ramsey trusted insurance pros are vetted and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interests at heart. Go to ramseyolutions.com/coage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. Let's go out to Phoenix and talk to Bridget. Hey, Bridget.

What's up?

>> Hello. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Of course. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

>> Um, I'm wondering uh how I should go

about paying for a new AC unit for our

house. We don't have any cash to pay for

it.

>> All righty. Um, tell us what money you do have. What are you earning every single month?

Uh, [snorts] my husband makes $5,939

a month after taxes before insurance.

>> Okay. >> I am a stay-at-home mom.

>> Okay. And there's no there's zero money

saved is what you said.

>> We have $1,800.

>> $1,800.

>> Yes. >> Okay. What's it going to cost to get the new AC?

>> Uh, we got two opinions. Um, one smaller

business guy said it was going to cost about $10,000. And then a more

well-known business in our area said it would be about 15,000, but that they could offer rebates that could get us down to about 12.

>> Okay. Um, >> but I've heard I'm sorry. I've I've heard that the rebates can be difficult to get. >> Sure. So, is it completely out? Is it completely dead? You're sitting there in the cold.

It's not completely dead. Um, it's our it's our air conditioning unit. Um, the heat sitting really hot.

>> Is there a possibility you can let it ride for 3 months since we're in the middle of winter?

>> Um, there is a possibility. Yes. Um, but

of course in in Phoenix in the summer,

demand gets a little bit higher, the prices of things go up. So, we wanted to get ahead of it if we could.

>> Yeah. But but here's the thing. >> It got hot and we needed to turn it on. I get that you just don't have the money for it.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> But there could be time to save money and get it done before June or before

May hits. Um what's >> I am currently using the Every Dollar app and I am in the red. Um I I have

only used Every Dollar app this month.

Prior to that, I was uh budgeting in a book for about six months and I wasn't

really getting anywhere.

>> Okay. >> Um tell me about being in the red. What what what are you seeing that is the

issue?

>> Um we have a car payment and credit card

debt. Um a little bit of medical debt and a little bit of a private student loan.

>> Okay. Right now >> it's about 1,400 in debt a month.

>> That's that's minimums.

>> Yeah, that's all minimums. >> Okay. And then how much is your mortgage or your rent or whatever? uh one 1,100,

but my husband pays an extra $100 on

that. >> Okay. So, that's definitely not the problem. So, we've got about $2,500 here. Tell me where else is the problem because we've got a great mortgage.

We've got minimums covered. Where is the other um >> 2600 going?

>> Um we're spending about 850 on groceries

a month. There's six of us. Two adults, four children. >> Yep. Great. >> Um, three, two of them are teenagers,

one of them is in elementary school, four-year-old. >> I think that's great. So, now we're down to 1,800.

>> Um, >> do you see what I'm doing here? I'm trying to I'm trying to pinpoint the issue. There's something here. Do you have daycare?

>> No daycare. >> Okay. There's something here that's eaten your lunch. um you'll be able to see it in every dollar, but right now you're kind of in a point of a little beyond four walls.

It's like, okay, I've got to make sure I'm paying the minimums on everything. Obviously, I got to keep food on the table. Obviously, I got to keep the m mortgage covered. We just covered that unless there's some medical thing or a lot of insurance that I don't know about.

Uh my goal right now would be a little bit of a storm mode and I'm not trying to pay anything extra. I'm just trying to figure out what's putting me in the red and is it something that I can tweak and change because we have a countdown clock that's set for like May 1st that we've got to get to. So, not only do I have to figure out what's putting us in the red now, the next thing is okay, where can we bring in more money? Is it something that you can pick up work?

Is it something that your husband can pick up work?

>> Yeah. Um, we are spending about $820 a

month in insurance premiums.

>> Okay. >> Um, and my husband, he is a an executive

sue chef. He works from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. >> Mhm. >> 5 to 6 days a week. Uh, he could not pick up anything. I could try to do something. Previously, my job, uh, I was

cooking as well. >> Got Um, and uh, now I just I have to

have the flexibility to drop off all the kids at school and pick up all the kids.

That industry does really >> four. Three of them are in school and I have my four-year-old at home. >> Four-year-olds at home going to go to school soon for kindergarten, I'm guessing. So, back to the budget. I'm still having $980 that I'm seeing that's unaccounted for and it's probably going here or there. But that's what I want. I want you to get to the point and you got to of what is like necessity because you

guys are in a necessity mode. If it ain't a necessity, clocking it out of the budget because you can't afford it.

You need whatever money you can find that you're going to add together with this $1,800 that you already have saved to start to be able to get closer to this $10,000 mark. So, it's reverse engineering this math and saying, "Okay, what do we need to bring in to get $10,000?" really another $8,000 by May.

And that's the math problem.

>> And here here's the other reality. If you went out today and b borrowed 10 grand to put this in

according to your budget that you've done on every dollar, you you wouldn't be able to make that minimum payment.

>> Oh, yeah. You'd be now $500 more in the

red. >> Yeah. >> And so I I would draw a really firm line and say, "We're not going to borrow money. What must be true?" And by the way, like your husband works like crazy.

Kudos to him.

>> It might be for three months for his family. He's got to get up on Sundays and go do go throw boxes somewhere.

>> Okay. >> Or get up in the morning after sleeping for a few hours and go

>> I don't know what else. But >> maybe it's in the cars. Tell me about your cars. >> Can you sell that car with a car pay?

>> We have Well, we have one four like

fiveseater car. that is what he takes to work. Uh, that's paid off. And then the one that fits all of us is the one we make the car payment on. That's $686

a month. >> Uh-huh. What's the total amount you owe on it?

>> $21,000. >> Okay. Do you know what it's worth?

>> I Kelly Blue Booked it this morning.

Private party. It was sitting at around 24,000. >> Okay. What about the five-seater? What's that worth?

um that I have had for a lot of years.

It's a 2011 14 probably only worth

$2,000. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um I think John's right. I think there's going to be some strong discomfort that's going to take place here in the next couple of months, but it's going to be for a great gain because to your point, you couldn't afford a debt payment even if you wanted to.

>> Yeah. the one AC company, the bigger company said that they had a like 18month 0% interest financing option,

but the smaller the smaller company doesn't pay anything at all.

>> Here's what I want you to do. It's still a payment. It doesn't matter if there's no nothing uh gaining on it. It's still a payment. What I want you to do, I want you to spend I want you to swap where your brain power is going. Because right now your brain power is going on uh what

types of payment plans they're offering, what types of debt there could be, what types, right? I want you to switch all that power and go to okay, what can I do? What can I offer myself? What can my husband offer our family in terms of work?

What can I do you see what I'm saying? Just shift all that over because John is right. If you don't take debt off the table, I guarantee you're going to do it.

>> Yes. >> And so, >> um, I do have I'm sorry. Go ahead.

>> No, you go ahead.

>> Um, we are getting $10,000 in taxes back

this year. I did a like a mock estate

online. >> Great. >> Um, should we use that to do it?

Otherwise, my husband wanted to open a heat lot. >> What? Don't put your house on the block.

You have four kids. Please [snorts] don't put your house on the block. >> Yes, that's what I thought you What?

Girl, you should have told us that from the beginning. Now, [laughter] use that money. >> Use that money. >> All right, we'll do that. But not not a penny more. [music] >> Okay. >> Don't borrow money. >> Understood. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we're we're trying not to.

Absolutely.

If you've been paying off debt, working the plan, and have reached baby step 4 or beyond, you've done the hardest part.

Now it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back. March 14 through 21, 2027. Join all the Ramsay

personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Key, Cosm, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman. Cabin sold out last time and they will again. Lock in yours with a $600 deposit at ramiesolutions.com/events.

That's ramissolutions.com/events.

Today's scripture of the day is Hebrews 10:35-36.

So do not throw away your confidence. It will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. Um y'all don't know this, but producer James Child is Child is one

of the hugest Limp Biscuit fans of all time and um in honor of him, uh today's

quote is from one of his heroes, Fred Durst. Fred Durst says, "To walk around with an ego is a bad thing. To have confidence in yourself is a great thing." Shout out Fred and shout out

James, the biggest Limp Biscuit fan I

know. Let's go out to Detroit, Michigan and talk to Zayn. Hey Zayn, what's up man? >> Hey, how you doing? >> We're doing all right brother. What's up with you?

>> So I um just a little backstory, I was

an athlete um and then so I left school

to pursue a job that I thought was going to be my career. Uh, it turned out it wasn't for me and I got into a little accident and I'm 24 right now and I got

a 1.2 million pay settlement. Um, I'm

not I don't have much debt, not many expenses. I'm not working anymore. I'm kind of just floating around. I don't have uh a place to really stay. So, I'm

kind of just staying in my car for a while. Um, the first check is supposed to be over uh six years. The first check is coming in a couple days and I'm not

really sure uh what to do with it.

>> How how much will it be?

>> 1.2 million. >> The the first check. I thought you said the 1.2 million is over six years.

>> Yeah. 200,000 for 6 years.

>> Okay. 200,000. It just Okay. Wow. Okay.

[gasps] So, tell me more about

tell me more about what you were doing.

Tell me more about why you don't have anyone around you and why you're kind of living in your >> in your car.

>> Yeah, I was I was living with my girlfriend. Um and then I lost my job. I

mean I I was an accountant and I just didn't enjoy it. So I left that and I guess I just >> You left it with no other job.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I I found out about the case and I just I kind of just walked out. a bad decision by me. I drove down to Phoenix. It just also wasn't for me. And so now I'm back in Detroit. I have uh actually a job interview coming up in a couple days, too. So, I'm going to take that more seriously. I just I just don't know where to start. Like, do I get a house?

Do I >> Okay. How are you feeling? Are you feeling great or are you feeling like a little down in the dumps?

>> Um Well, I'm scared. I mean, I have no idea what I'm doing, what my purpose is.

uh where I'm going in life and then all of a sudden I get a big sum of money. >> Yeah. >> Sometimes this sum of money is like the

legal the way they say this legally is to make you whole. Are you going to have ongoing medical procedures or issues down the road? >> No. >> Okay. So, they just wrote you a check that said basically it's like our bad here you go. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Wow. Okay. >> And how old are you, man?

>> 24. >> You said you're an athlete for a while. Tell me about that. Uh, I played soccer at Purdue.

>> Okay. >> Uh, and then I I left that. I went to

Detroit Mercy and then I had a pretty

good job uh at Big Boy uh the the

restaurant corporate and I was I was doing pretty well. I was doing the accounting for them, but I was just bored out of my mind. >> Okay. So I think I I think

man if I'm totally honest with you the chances of this money you look up in six years and you have you're right where you are right now statistically speaking is very high. So I want to applaud you.

I'd hug you if you're standing in front of me. I want to applaud you for reaching out to get wisdom. Like it t it takes a lot of wisdom to say hey I've screwed up. I was an athlete my whole life and I've been floundering with who I am now that I don't have that kind of structure. I thought I want to do this corporate thing that wasn't for me. I screwed that up too. Like you're wise beyond your years. So I want to applaud you. Okay.

>> Thank you. >> But I also hear

that not I'm not saying this as a diagnosis, but I hear that underlying I don't want to say depression, but dude, you're just running low right now.

And >> I'm just trying Yeah. I I I I think you're worth sitting calling somebody in the local Detroit area and don't tell any of your buddies. You don't have to run your mouth about it, >> but just go sit down with a counselor and say, "Hey, I just want to talk through some stuff." >> Yeah. >> It sounds like you're carrying a lot of weight.

>> Yeah. And I'm just not really sure what the next step is with my life, I guess.

>> Yeah. I I think this money hit at a time

uh where there's honestly more important things to deal with. Uh if I were you

just really quickly cuz I I want John to

talk more about this, but if you have a little bit of debt, go ahead and pay it off with this $200,000.

You got to get yourself an apartment.

This is not the time to think about buying a house or anything. >> Please don't buy a house. Yeah. >> Yeah. Just just get yourself an apartment near where you do life and

keep it modest and then just park the rest of it in a high yield savings for right now. The next check for 200,000.

When will you receive that?

>> Uh next year, February.

>> Okay. So, that's great. This is You're

not receiving this. Oh, boy. You're receiving a lot of money, but it could be uh it could be worse if you were getting huge chunks. It could be a lot of damage done.

But with this 200,000, treat it like for now, treat it like this is the money that you live off for the entire year, basically until you can figure out what your life is. And >> I love you going to get a job.

>> I would put a cap. This is just me. This is old me talking to 24y old me. I would

put a cap and say, "I'm going to buy a car for 20 grand or less." >> Okay? because you're going to want to go out, you're gonna have $200,000 and you're going to want to go out, you're gonna ask a couple of your buddies and you're gonna end up with a $90,000 car that will depreciate, you know, off a cliff, right?

>> Mhm. >> But if you go buy a $20,000 car, you get yourself a two-bedroom apartment that's nice, right? And then you park the rest of that money, like Jade said, and you go get a job and you go talk to a counselor >> and start squaring up who am I going to be? What kind of man do I want to become over time? And what steps do I need to take to do that? Do I need to go back to school? Do I need to go learn a trade?

Like, who do I want to become? And I think you got to dig into some of those answers. At the same time, you're living life. You're working a job. You're going out. You're meeting friends. You're dating again. Like, you're you're you're living this life. And what you'll have that most people don't is an $175,000

cushion in a high yield savings account that nobody knows about.

>> Right. And I I'll I I'll give you one better because I don't want to be a complete buzzkill on on the fact that you've got a little bit of money coming in here. Once you secure a job and it's the job that you think you're going to work for a while, you can take, let's say you secure a job, you're making, I don't know, $120,000 a year. Then you can say, "I'm going to take 60,000 and I'm going to buy myself a car in cash." >> Yes.

>> Okay. >> You know what I'm saying?

money. Like you can blow 1.2 2 million in a hot second. You can blow $200,000 a year in a hot second if you're not smart with it. So, >> and everyone around you, listen to me, everyone around you is going to tell you to buy a house, buy a car or two,

>> to always pick up the tab when y'all go out to a restaurant to buy crypto to they're going to everyone's going to have an opinion.

I if I got a job, if you get a job and you qualify for it, I'd go I'd just go ahead and fill up your Roth IRA for the I mean, you can do some really smart stuff. You can sit down with a smart investor pro too, >> but I would put that money in a high yield savings account and start to square up the question, who am I going to be? What kind of man am I going to be? >> And because you have found yourself alone right now, I want you to go sit down with a professional.

I have done it and it made tremendous difference in my life.

have gone to sit with a counselor, too.

I just think that's where you're at right now, brother, because I can hear your voice.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, it's a I mean it's a blessing, but it's also scary. >> Yeah, it's awesome. But you're the fact that your first thought was I'm going to reach out and talk to a coach first tells me that you're wise. You're wise beyond your years, brother. So, I applaud you. >> Thank you. And there's nobody better.

I've been listening to you guys for a while now. >> That's awesome. Will you make Will you make Jade and I a commitment?

>> Yes. >> You'll by March one, you'll be debtree.

You'll have yourself a nice but not crazy car. And you'll have yourself an apartment. >> Yeah, I promise. >> And you promise you'll have the rest of that in a high yield savings account and you won't tell any of your other friends this money's coming. >> I promise. >> Excellent. Now you're on the path, brother. >> Proud of you, dude.

>> Um Jade, I don't want to say I'm proud that he got in a wreck and got money or got in an accident, but >> he's okay, so that's good. >> Yeah, I'm glad he's okay. And I'm glad that he's wise and said, "Okay, my life just changed and I don't think I've got the mental or emotional capacity for it, and I'm reaching out [music] for help." Good. If you need to talk to somebody, go talk to somebody. Love you guys. Bye.

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## 74. Gambling with Your Future Is a Losing Game | August 14, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `u8UD_KWbDng` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8UD_KWbDng) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:12:21 |

---

[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsay Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, host of the George Camel Show on YouTube, a big hit on Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today. The phone number here is88255225.

Deborah is in Sacramento. Hi, Deborah.

How are you?

>> Hi, I'm okay.

>> What's up?

>> Well, I'm 69. My husband is 79. He's still

working. He's a pharmacist. and we were

married later in life. We've been married now 11 years. Um the first few

years we were together. Uh I helped him I'm retired in real estate. I helped him sell a few properties. So we had a little over a million dollars and then I was starting over. I got caught in the mortgage mel meltdown. We were very careful with our money I thought. And um

the last few years he's been evasive about um our savings. And

anyway, I started digging around uh last this past January.

My husband has a gambling problem. Our savings is down to $15,000.

Um >> he gambled away a million dollars.

>> Yes. This was over about a 10 year a

nine and a half 10 year program.

>> How do you how do you go nine years and not find this out?

>> Not know what's going on. >> You didn't check the account one time in nine years.

>> Well, I had the statements were coming.

No, I the last time because I said the last I haven't seen anything and he had the stacked up in his office. He was

just evasive about it and he was saying, "Oh, this is how much we have." >> Which makes me gonna makes me going to look at it that much faster.

I mean like 11 years ago.

>> Well, nine years ago, we actually merged everything together. We've been we about

uh 6 months after we were married, we um

merged everything together. And a year and a half ago, something that was kind of a warning sign was that I saw a late

notice for taxes. And I said, "Why are our taxes late?" you know, and then I started digging around and I called in and found out he missed a payment on his estimated taxes. So, we took care of that. At that time, I started dividing

our finances. My credit score is almost 800 and his is hovering around 600. And

then I started opening all the mail and everything and he's moving money around.

His current salary is about 350 a year.

He's still working. So, um, what kind of gambling is he doing, hun?

>> It sports.

>> Okay. >> And this is the thing. >> So, now, now you sat down with him and you said, "You've lost a million dollars." And what did he say?

>> He said, "I can stop anytime I want to.

I'm not going to gamble anything, August, to show you we can get it under control. would you keep it down to seven or 800 a month? And I said seven or 800

a month on get I mean he does he said he

doesn't have a problem.

>> Oh, he's got a problem.

>> It's a massive >> Yeah. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

>> No, this is a massive problem. I talked

to one person. I spoke with his brother about it because I don't know who else.

I don't know. I'm not going to tell my family about this. >> Yeah. So, um I'm sorry. This is this is so devastating. This is an 80year-old man who has a gambling addiction.

>> And he's still working a thriving flaming white hot gambling

addiction and he's in complete denial about it. And so, um, you know, you need

to talk to a marriage therapist immediately and, uh, start making some demands on him because otherwise you're going to be homeless.

>> It's it's it's crazy. And there's

everywhere. >> Yes. But who do I >> You talk to You call a marriage

counselor and you start talking to them.

And you call someone that does addiction counseling and you start talking to them. Both of them can give you the framework by which you lead them into an ultimatum. And the ultimatum is you stop cold turkey. You are going to Alan.

You're going to Gamblers Anonymous and you are going to a therapist and you are not gambling another dime or you will not see me anymore.

This is your only chance.

I think you've been too soft, too kind, too trusting for a decade now.

>> And you, you know, and you your your avoidance of this for 10 whole years is absurd. You you know, which causes this.

So you knew something was wrong a long time ago. You just didn't know what or how much or how big and you just you just walked away and let him do it anyway. And I don't care what the guy makes. When you lose a million dollars gambling and you and I can cut it down to $700 a month, that's so funny. It's

so stupid. >> Let's divert that to treatment and healing, not to more gambling.

>> Yeah. So, he has a serious serious

FanDuel problem.

>> Yeah. >> I thought it was just the young guys falling for the sports betting stuff. Dave, it's wild to hear an 80-y old man.

fastest growing addiction in America today other than online porn.

>> Wow. >> Number two is gambling. And these these are the downsides of the internet.

They're both very accessible compared to when I was a kid. And so porn has just

completely gone bananas in terms of the

the uh impact and the number of people whose lives are being destroyed.

>> Uh and then secondly is g a close second is gambling. When I started doing this show 30 years ago, you know, it was cocaine or alcohol was the addiction of choice. But now it's it's sports betting, online gambling, and porn. And

they're just um it it's very cuz just

it's right there at your finger. It it's right there on the internet. >> You got a smartphone, you can get addicted. It's that easy now.

>> And so it's scary. >> And >> you don't have to go to Vegas anymore to blow money on gambling. >> And here's what's interesting. The guy's a pharmacist. He knows addiction.

He studied it and you don't get a pharmacy. You don't get a pharmacy degree without that. So because because you're in the business of medication, hello. So um yeah, he's in a very

precarious thing. He could lose his license >> because you know they start worrying about him dealing or something on the side to make his gambling guess. So he's he's really and the saddest thing 79

years old. >> And how much longer can he actually work? >> Even if he wants to, his body eventually is going to say, "I can't do it anymore." >> No. So >> and they're going to be broke.

>> Honey, you got to break this and you got to break it in half. Um or it's going to if you hang around and watch this ship go down, you're going down with it. So you don't have a choice. you have got to address this head-on, very bluntly, very with very extreme reaction from you.

Um because this is an extreme situation, but you need coaching more than a couple of guys on a podcast and you need a good therapist in your corner to help you frame this.

you know, you can't really go back and go, "Well, I thought something was wrong. It's something's wrong. We lost a million dollars. This guy's an addict." >> The red flag. >> So now what do we do? Yeah. Now what we do is we stop. We try to rebuild with his income and we try to rebuild his psyche and his psychology and his spirit

to where he's not functioning like an addict. So guys, if you've noticed, the

most expensive advertising available to man right now is all being bought up by sports betting.

>> They're sponsoring everything. MGM, BanDuel. Do you think they're paying for those ads from their savings? No. They're paying

for those ads with all you people that are losers.

You lose your money to them. That makes you a loser.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Music]

Michelle's in Wisconsin. Hey, Michelle.

How are you? >> I'm good, thanks. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, I'm 45 years old. I'm single,

widowed, mom of two. My kids are 12 and 15. Um, I do well financially. I get social security. I put all my um money away that I can for HSA and retirement

and everything. So, I'm doing well. My only debt is my mortgage and I should pay that off in the next 10 months. I have 15,000 left on it. I have a 3% interest rate on it. So, um it's doing well. So my question is back at the start of co um some friends told me I

should invest money in the stock market um because it had dropped and I they kind of helped me through it. I opened an account um I had some of my husband's life insurance money I put into it. Um it was about $270,000 and over the last 5 years I've done a little investing, not a ton but um some.

And now I am at 1.1 million. So, I've

done really well. >> Yeah. Way to go.

>> Yeah. So, I don't I don't know. This year when I hit the million mark, I kind of got nervous about it and I don't know if I should just keep going, if I should

start to sell because I have over 500,000 in unrealized gains that, you know, could go. So, I just I don't know

kind of what I should do with it.

>> Okay. So um

well what we teach and what I have done personally is I invest in good growth stock mutual funds. I don't buy and sell single stocks.

>> And the reason I don't is the data tells us that over time >> what you've what you've pulled off congratulations is not sustainable. Mhm.

>> The research tells us that that's, you know, for instance, people, you're not doing this, but people who are day trading, they're buying and selling all during the day. 97%

of them lose money within a year.

>> Okay. >> So, that's an example. Okay. That's people that think they can beat the system. Now, you have not been day trading, but you have been trading,

>> correct? >> A little bit. And I So, >> so where did where did these gains come from? Explain it to me.

Um, so I have 20 stocks and probably

most of that is within like four stocks that I've done really well on like and one of them is Palanteer that I bought more recently and that's a good portion of it. >> So it's kind of in four stocks. The rest are, you know, between three and 10,000 gains, which I'm not >> too worried about. I'm sure they'll continue to go up. >> The majority of the money you made was from the four stocks, not the 20.

>> Yeah. Well, she invested in 20 and four of them hit. >> Yeah. And the other tw the other uh 16 have done okay, >> but not they're not the >> You mean they they've done good.

>> Yeah. They're not the hockey stick though up into the right. The rest of this is Yeah. >> Okay, that makes sense. Um so, um here's

the thing.

>> Um 20 stocks is not a well- diversified portfolio and four sure is the devil isn't. And diversification

equals lowered risk. Diversification

means to spread around. And your your risk is you're you're the karate kid.

You're standing on one foot hoping you can kick.

>> Mhm. >> You follow me? Instead of firmly planted on two with a solid base. And so, um,

you know, you've done well. I don't I'm not bismerching that, but I I'm not

going to recommend that you keep doing that or that anybody do that. Uh I'm glad for you. I'm happy that you've made it, but again, the data the data tells

me that that most likely you're not going to continue this trend.

Um and so, uh it would scare me if I

woke up and half of my fortune was in four stocks.

>> Mhm. because as those four companies go, so goes my fortune and I want to be spread out more than that. So a typical growth stock mutual fund has 90 to 200 stocks in it. And if you're in four different categories of growth stock mutual funds, growth, growth in income, aggressive growth in international, that puts you in somewhere between 400 and a

thousand different companies. And so

it's all it's spread out. And so one or two companies going up or down does not change your life. It's the movement of the whole market that changes your life when you're invested with a well- diversified portfolio. Instead, you

know, you wake up every morning thinking about these companies more than they do.

>> Mhm. >> You have to. I mean, it would stress me.

And so, you know, you called to ask. So, what would I do? I would say, "Thank you, God, that this happened. I've got this money and I'm going to make it safe now so it doesn't slip away from me. And so it's akin it's akin to I hit on the uh roulette wheel and I'm up 200 bucks.

So I'm walking away from the table and I'm leaving the casino

>> while while I'm up >> and you'll likely have maybe I don't know 70 or 80 grand in taxes you'll pay which out of 1.1 big whoop.

>> Yeah. So, I I would sit down with a smart investor pro, go to remseysolutions.com, pick some good mutual funds, and move this to a well- diversified portfolio.

And if it's making uh 10% average, it'll

double every seven years. So, 7 years from now, you'll have 2 million. 14 years from now, you'll have 4 million.

21 years from now, you'll have 8 million. Just as steady as a rock, just

as so predictable, it's sickening. And what instead of um you're at the fair and you're on the roller coaster and then you got off and ran straight onto the tilt whirl and you're going to throw up.

>> I would not recommend that. >> This is I mean this I I'm again I I I'm

happy that you made some money. I'm a wee bit surprised that you made some money, but I'm happy you did. And uh just like if somebody says, "I I went to Vegas and I made a million dollars. I put $275 on the roulette wheel and I made a million dollars." I'm happy for you, but I don't recommend that as a methodology to uh to become wealthy. Uh

because you'll end up with nothing. And um yeah, I I was counseling a in the

early days I was coaching a lady that had um $900,000 in her company for in

her 401k and she was 60 or she was 69

years old and it was a big time name

brand company that anybody would know if I mentioned it. Household name, okay?

And a big big company, major stock. And

um they made some mistakes in some of their product launches and their stock went down 38% in two quarters.

>> Wa. >> So she 100% of her 401k is in company stock.

>> Oh man. >> She had one stock. So as that company goes, so goes her future. So her almost

million dollars went down by almost 400,000 in two months or in two quarters. And she came to me, "What do I it. I'm like, uh, I don't know what you do. We're not going to write it down and then write it down and then write it down hoping it comes up. I'm going to cut my losses and get out of dodge. And

so instead of a million dollars to work with, you know, we had 600,000 to work with. And because she wasn't diversified, >> but it was a name brand predictable, experienced, boring company. Shouldn't have done that. But it, you know, and it hadn't done that. It had gone up all these years. But then about the time she needs it, she hits retirement age, boom, this thing goes down the dead gum hole.

And so that's the kind of thing you're facing. And um diversification is a

basic financial principle. The first thing they teach you in financial planning. Spread, the Bible says it, spread your portions to seven, yes to eight, for disaster may come upon the land. Spread it out. Money is like manure. Spread out. It grows grows things. Left in one pile, it stinks.

>> I like that. And the slower you grow it, the more likely you are to actually keep it and replicate that. You know, the proverb says, "Wealth gained hastily will dwindle. Whoever gathers little by little will increase it." So unless you got a crystal ball or you're Nancy Pelosi, I would not be betting on any single stocks.

>> Whoa. >> Sorry, Nance. She's been doing very well for herself. >> Dropped it in there.

Well, you just >> I wonder if she's if Sarah's maybe for Michelle was friends with Nancy. Maybe that's who told her to get on these stocks years ago. >> Somebody Somebody helped her pick. >> Somebody knew something.

>> Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. No, I wouldn't accuse Michelle of that.

>> Just leave her alone, George. Don't Don't be abusing the customer. >> Leave Michelle alone. >> Don't be abusing the customer. >> Well, see, now everyone else goes, "Well, if I just pick the right stocks, I can be like Michelle." That's the scary. >> That's true. >> If you pick the right stocks, you be like Michelle. >> You go back in time. >> That means four times out of 20 you hit.

That's a pretty heavy failure rate.

Four times out of 20 you hit.

Think about it. The statistic I mean if you got four out of 20 answers on a test right, you would get an F.

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[Music]

Brett is in Kansas. Hi Brett, how are you?

>> How you doing Dave? Doing well. >> Good. How can I help?

>> Well, about seven years ago, you and I spoke on your show. Um, at that time I was graduating college, moving to a new city for my first job and getting engaged. And you won't remember that call, but I do. So, um, thank you back then for sharing some some hard truths with me. Um, since then paid off student

loans, uh, just, uh, in about two months

into marriage, um, my wife and I were were debtree. So, over the last six years, had two beautiful girls, saved up

20% for our house, cash flow renovations, and um today I looked up at

my retirement account and it's at $250,000 and next month I'll be 30. And

I just feel so incredibly grateful and blessed and uh essentially my question is I mean I am I at a point where I've

essentially funded retirement and um because my wife and I have hopes and goals and dreams to build our own house and when we're done having kids um start a business and um would it make more sense to uh stay save that same

money but outside of a a retirement

account where we really can't get to it until we're

What's your income? Household income.

>> Uh, it's about 140, 150.

>> Okay. You've done an amazing job.

Congratulations.

>> It's It's kind of fun to get to talk to somebody that seven years later actually did what I told them to do. >> Where are they now? And you're like, "Oh, good." >> That's pretty that's pretty impressive. And so I think it worked. And because you listened and you're wise and you're steady and you guys have built a wonderful life. I mean, what you described is a pretty incredible thing to be in your 20s and be sitting where you're sitting. Um, well, if you put

15%, which is where you are, you're in baby steps four, five, and six, 15% of your income into retirement, you still have room to uh build some other side

money. How much do you owe on the home?

>> Uh, we're probably in the 160 170 range.

Yeah. >> Okay.

And uh what were you making when you came out of college?

>> 68,500.

>> So your income has doubled in seven years.

>> Okay. >> So let's visit seven years from today

then. And let's say that your income

doubled, which really wouldn't be that unusual in your world. Okay. Um, and 7

years from today, your house would easily be paid for because it'll probably be done in about four years.

Um, and 7 years from today, you've continued to put 15% aside. At that point, your house paid for, you're going to be it's going to be very easy to do what you're talking about without abandoning the retirement saving.

So, I'm going to delay your,

if I were in your shoes, I would delay what you're requesting for four years.

And then 7 years from today, you'll have a nice side fund, a paid for house, and

a fully funded rocking retirement plan that has probably about 700,000 in it.

So, I'm going to guess and say roughly 5 years from today, you're going to have a net worth of a million dollars with what I'm describing.

And um cuz house will be paid for, you're already at 250. At seven at in

the 250 in 7 years, if it's in good mutual funds, it'll be 500. Plus, you're going to be adding to it. So, you're going to be at 500 there. The house is going to be paid for. It's going to be worth 500. You're going to be a millionaire in about 5 years, give or take. And um that's pretty cool. Uh, and

when that house gets paid for, what you can't you your mind, your intellect can grasp it right now, but you really can't, your emotions can't. About the time your house gets paid for now, you're making more money and you have zero bills. The

ability to step on the gas and build that side fund really fast. It's going to happen. And because I've watched it over the years and I've done it. And so

um because you reach what we call the pinnacle point where you reach the top of the hill and now you put your hands up on the handlebars and coast down the other side. Your money is now making more money than you make and that's where you you're you're going to be at that point. You're going to turn the corner there. So if I'm you, I'm going to say no, not today. But I think it's a great question and a great target, but

it's probably going to be about four years before you get there when the house gets paid off. And then when the house gets paid off, you're going to use that money that you've been dumping on baby step six to build your side fund with. And >> that's exactly what my wife and I did, Dave. You know, I very similar story to our friend here.

And we just knocked the mortgage out fast in a few years and then we freed up that mortgage payment to be able to invest. And once you hit that baby step seven, you can invest beyond the 15%. So still max out the retirement accounts. Go do that.

But even if you build this side pot like Dave's talking about, I crunched some numbers to give you some hope here. From 35 to 55. So that's 20 years. You're still far from retirement.

You would have 1.5 million if you took 2,000 bucks and just threw it in a non-retirement account on the side once that house is paid off. >> That's your side fund is a million and a half. >> That's not even touching your actual retirement nest egg. And so like Dave said, you can build it pretty quickly.

That's two grand a month. If you never got a raise, you just kept that two grand a month going, 24 grand a year into a side account. And that's the normal rate of return, 10%.

>> I've collapsed it into some other things, but when we first paid off our house, um it was 25, it was 15,600 bucks or whatever, long time ago. And um I just rounded it to 2500 and I opened a fresh

mutual fund with 2500. And just to see

what paying yourself a house payment turns into. >> I just wanted to emotionally experience it. How fast that account became a million dollars blew my mind.

>> Wow. >> Just paying myself a house payment >> cuz there's there's no interest and and only the one you're making from compound growth. Yeah.

Kayla is in Texas. Hi Kayla. How are

you? >> I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So I am supposed to receive inheritance from my grandparents. U my grandma unfortunately has been gone for two and a half years now. My uncle the trustee hasn't distributed anything. And

so one I have two questions. The one is what's a respectful way to approach him of when he's going to distribute the money. And my second question is once he does what is the best way to utilize that money to pay off the debt and become you financially more healthy?

>> Wow. How old are you?

>> 35. >> Okay. And your parents are gone?

>> Um, my my dad is, but it's uh it's not

my dad's parents that's gone. It's my mom. >> Okay.

So, your mom's alive.

>> Oh, no. I thought it's it's the I'm I'm sorry I misunderstood you. My My mother is is gone, but my my dad is alive.

>> Okay. But it's it's your mother's brother. That is that that's the uncle.

>> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. Okay. And you said you're how old again?

>> 35. >> Okay. All right. Um, are you in the same town with him?

>> I am not. He's in Kansas. I'm in Texas.

>> Okay. All right. Well, um, do you have

any idea what you're supposed to be receiving in dollar amount?

>> I don't know the dollar amount. Um, so they had a trust set up. I know that the house is in the trust. Um, and they sold the house. He sold the house in April for $450,000.

Uh, my grandparents had a very, very similar mindset to you when it came to money where they only >> I mean, if you just called him up and said, "Hey, Unk. Um, I'm just checking in. Um, I know you got all this stress

and everybody bothering you about this and I don't want to be a problem to you, but I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do with my bills and all. Uh, do you have any idea roughly what the timeline is and see what he says? Would

that be okay?

Uh, so the only thing that I I worry about my my grandparents and my uncle were very touchy when it came to money

and I just didn't want to be perceived as greedy. >> It's not greedy. Just it's calling up and finding out what's going on. >> They named in right in the will and the trust you're named to be the you're inheriting this money. It's not greed.

It's just what's owed. >> I'm just asking I'm just asking for an update.

>> Okay. >> Greedy. decision on greedy's already been made. I'm getting the money. All I want is an update.

>> And you know, that's not >> if that doesn't work, you can go the attorney route and formal demand letters and probate and all that, but I would >> I wouldn't go there. I wouldn't go there if you don't have to. Yeah. Just um say, "Hey, I need I need an update." And if he won't give you one, he's smart alec or something. and hire an attorney and have them contact.

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>> Sarah is in North Carolina. Hi Sarah.

How are you? >> I'm fine. How about yourself?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, okay. So, I am 36. I have three

children with um the man that I've been

married to for 18 years. Um, my mother

passed away back in 2013, and that was the only kind of any family whatsoever that I had. So, um um I'm not proud of

the fact, but it is a very codependent situation, if you will. Um I was a

stay-at-home mom until my son started school. He's 10 and um he started fifth

grade this year. I I spoke with my husband about two years ago. We brought it the subject of needed marriage needing marriage counseling, things like that. I I discussed with him that I was just not happy with the way that things were and that, you know, I I thought we needed to speak with a lawyer or something like that. Um

uh he's a mechanic, I will say that. And

um ever since we had that conversation about 2 years ago, um I've had three vehic vehicles that have torn up and

that has cost me work. And he's the only person that is working on these vehicles. He's the only person that's maintenanced them or that's fixed them if anything has torn up. He gets very upset. Um I guess you could say I'm kind

of confused about whether I'm in an abusive relationship or not because he's not physical with me, but he's kind of taking my resources away. um in an effort to keep me here instead of trying to work through something for our children so that we can separate and give them a more peaceful environment.

And financially um and resource-wise, I'm I'm stuck.

He's all that I have. And I just don't know where to start trying.

>> How how much do you earn?

>> I I don't earn anything right now. I don't have the vehicle that I have right now just got fixed two weeks ago and

that is not I mean that's a 2006 Nissan

Maxima. That's not anything that's dependable itself even though it's been fixed. Um when I say taking resources

away I I very much so mean like he he's

the one that works. He gets paid. He gives me money on Cash App each week that I take, you know, to the store and buy what we need for the house and for the kids and stuff. But the money that I get is what he gives me. And um if I go

anywhere, he knows where I go. Like I said, every time that I've had a job, I was making about $25 an hour. Um I do um

private care nursing. Um and I've I've been doing that off and on for about six years, but like I said, as soon as I brought up the situation of um you know,

I think we need to separate, there started becoming a lot of problems, especially with my transportation back and forth to work. Are you saying he's like messing with your car? I don't understand. >> Yes. >> Like he's actively breaking your car so you can't drive. >> How old are your children, baby?

>> Um

I'm sorry. Give me just a second.

>> Yeah. How old are your babies?

>> My um our youngest, he'll be 11 on the

29th. And then we've got one that'll be 16 on the 24th. And then our oldest, she

graduates this year. She's 17. She turns 18 in February.

>> Okay. All right.

>> And um it's very um he's a bit of a

bully sometimes about it. He makes it very clear that he doesn't

know the deal. >> Stop. I I'll help you. >> Stop. This is an abusive relationship.

Okay. Anytime someone calls up and says,

"My spouse is tampering with my car

and he's bully and he's controlling and he's only giving me a few dollars." This is an abusive relationship. You are in an abusive relationship. Do you hear me?

>> Okay. So, you need to um get on the phone and contact a local pastor there in your town and tell them you need some help and you need to get some help and you need to do some help to get new housing and get a new life set up.

>> This is not this is not negotiable.

>> You know that I'm not trying that I'm not trying to make a I mean the financial financially irresponsible.

>> This is sick.

Don't make excuses. This is a mess. It's

sick and you know it. He's tampering

with your car. You just said

hello.

Somebody's going to die. This is sick.

This is wrong. Okay, you need to get some help and you need to get some distance. Only chance this marriage heals is for him to get some help. And the only chance that happens is if he thinks you're gone because you're gone.

Yeah, there's no there's no healing that. It's just the the resources are >> No, that's what I'm telling you. I want you to get on the phone. I want you to go see a pick out a church that's a good large church in that area. Go sit down with their team with their team of counselors, their team of pastors, and tell them you don't have any resources and you're in this situation that's dangerous and they will help you.

You've not been hit, so I don't know if a domestic violence shelter will take you or not, but you could contact one of those as well.

Okay, >> but this is toxic. It's wrong and it's

evil. If you were my little sister, I

would be over there packing your stuff right now and loading your car up while

I argued with you cuz you kept crawfishing on me.

>> And I mean like he knows that. >> I'm not going to argue with you. >> He verbalizes that. He verbalizes like that they're not going to do anything because he doesn't put his hands on me. Well, they I don't know who they are, but they are a divorce attorney and he doesn't have his wife and kids anymore.

>> That's who they are. And you go get a job and support yourself and your kid.

>> Yeah. >> And you can do that. >> I mean, he knows that's the goal and that's what he's trying to keep you from. Like attorney is very the cheapest

I've heard is $4,000.

>> So, you don't have to convince me. I'm already convinced. It didn't take me but a minute and a half.

>> Now you're convincing yourself. Are you going to call a pastor today or not?

>> Yes. >> Today? >> Yes, girl. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> It's gone on long enough. As a matter of fact, it's gone on too long.

>> Thank you. >> The first time somebody screws with your car, that's ingame. We're done. We're

done. >> Okay. >> This is out of control behavior. You're done.

>> All right. So, I'm gonna put you on hold and Kelly's going to get your numbers and stuff and we're going to follow up and and if you don't call call a pastor,

I'm going to start calling people around you.

>> Okay. >> Okay. You're going to do this, >> okay? >> Cuz this is not safe for you, girl.

You're one step from getting smacked.

You're one step from getting your nose broke.

You're You're right. This fuse is really short. I've done this for a long, long time, and I know what I'm doing. So, you have got to get some help. This guy might be redeemable, but today we're not having that discussion.

He's done too many things in this one conversation to to ear to, you know, for you to stay in this house. You need to get out of there. And then from that separation point, if y'all want to work on your marriage and he wants to work on his behavior and start being a real man instead of a little twerp, then uh then we can talk about this. But right now, your husband's a twerp.

And if he doesn't like that, he can call me. I'll be happy to talk to him about it. I'm not afraid of him. I can tell you that.

So, Kelly, you pick up. I want her name and phone number and then get with the church team and line her up with a couple of pastors and let's get some help in this girl's life. Um, I think she's going to do it. I don't know.

Hope we convinced her that it's a desperate enough situation. And I would I would start recording some of these conversations. Well, he said they're never going I mean, at least have some documentation to go here's what's going on. >> Yeah.

I don't I don't even need that. I'm just gone. I'm not negotiating with this. There's not It's not We're not having a discussion about what happened.

It happened. Okay.

you know, one of the um

one of the signs that you're dealing with evil is there's confusion.

If there's confusion in the room and there's like I know I said this and this person is looking at me saying I did not say it. I know I did it. I went back and wrote it down. I know it h and then I'm looking at them later and they're act they're gaslighting acting like it didn't happen. Now you know you're dealing with evil cuz evil always confuses. Truth is always clear and and

crystal clear and knowledgeable and uh but evil's always got confusion. There's always this circular thing and you can hear it even in her conversation with herself. Yeah. How circular it is and just keeps coming back around again. I don't want to come back around through it again. I just want to leave it. >> The disclaimers, the excuses.

>> Out. Get out.

Screw my car. Unbelievable.

You little twerp.

Heat. Heat. N. [Music]

[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love and create actual amazing

relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, a big hit on the Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today. Michael's in Texas. Hey, Michael. What's up?

>> Hi, Michael. Hi. Sorry. Hi, Dave. Um, so

I'm just I got a lot of uh debt left over from a

wedding I had four months ago. Um, and my wife has just recently lost her job also two months ago. And um, I've been

watching your show trying to um get the

gauge on how I can solve this. So far

uh, sold my car um, my Toyota that I got

last year. I was paying $400 a month for it. Um, instead I bought a uh 2013 Dodge

Dart outright and um

that would just be cheaper to have that with no payments and and just insurance on that instead of >> How much How much debt have you got, Michael?

Well, uh, total, um, I have $25,000 from

credit card debt, um, and 10,000 for,

um, um, student loans and 8,000 or 7,500

on my wife's car that is giving us some

issues. >> And what do you what do you make >> three months ago? >> I make uh 40 42,000 a year.

>> And what was she making before she fire got fired?

Um, she didn't she didn't make too much.

She was a server. Um, she

made maybe 1,200 a month.

>> Okay. So, what's she going to do with her life?

>> Well, that's what we're trying to figure out. Um, >> you need to do it now. >> She's been >> It's been two months.

>> I do agree. Uh, she's been looking.

She's >> Could she not pick up another serving job in the meantime? And places are desperate for help. >> That's what we're looking at. She's applied to so many jobs. She's only had three interviews uh over the past two months. She's I mean she was applying for jobs even before she got fired. Um

and so far nothing. She's applied to gas

stations. >> Did she go to school or was it just you?

>> Uh no. Sorry. So I graduated my associate. She's she's been to school.

Um she's she's not I guess you call it

not academically inclined.

>> I'm just saying did she have a degree in something? And what was that? >> No sir. >> Okay. Um, >> and your your associates is in what? Uh,

>> I have an associate of science.

>> Okay. And you guys are what? 23.

>> Uh, I'm we're both 21.

>> Oh, okay. Pretty good guess. Almost like I've done this. Okay.

>> And um All right. You're 21 years old.

You've been married 4 months.

>> Yes, sir. >> You put $25,000 on a credit card and she was a server and you're making 40 grand.

So, um, you wised up and sold your car.

That's smart. So, what you have is an

income problem, and income comes from work, >> right? >> She needs to do some. I don't want to hear any more excuses. This is bull crap. You can't get a job in this economy. It's bull crap.

Okay. >> Um, as far as I know, I mean, she she

can't even get uh unemployment right now. Um, >> honey, you don't need unemployment. You need a job.

She's going to work this week. This week there are What city are you in in Texas?

>> In Denison. It's north of Dallas.

>> Yeah. I mean, you can't find a server job in Dallas freaking Texas. Something wrong, man. I mean, seriously. So, your all's problem is income mathematically.

You don't make much. And one of you isn't doing anything. And you know, on

the heels of I just spent $25,000 on a wedding. So the answer, you know, you

the the uh the punishment for that is a lot of hard work for that dumb decision,

buying a wedding you couldn't afford.

Okay? And so you get you get your payback is hard work. And both of you need to be working 50 60 hours a week right now. Quit going out to eat. Quit partying. Turn off freaking Netflix and

work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work. That's where money comes from. >> The old Dave quote has never applied more. The only time you should be seeing the inside of a restaurant is if you're working there. >> This one applies. >> That one actually works really well with this particular call. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. and and this is very very very

doable, but it all has to do with ambition, motivation. And so when you tell me I'm not academically inclined, okay, then let's get in the trades.

Let's get in something that you can do if you don't want to do academics, that's fine. But if but I'm hearing I'm

not very ambitious and don't like to work much. That's what I heard when she said that. Now, I may be being too hard on her, but I do know the facts are that

it's been two months and she ain't got a job. You know how long I would go without a job? About a minute and a half.

You know, go down to Home Depot and buy a leaf blower. Rich people are afraid of leaves. They will pay you to blow leaves. You know, I mean, you there is

no way that I'm going to be unemployed more than about 45 seconds. I have the ability to make money and you do, too.

So that's uh this is the equation. So my

grandmother used to say it's a great place to go when you're broke to work.

And so that's what we're doing here. And uh I know you're newly weds and I know this is fun and I know you're 21, but you're not children anymore. Now we're acting like adults and we're doing adult games and we get adult prizes and $25,000 worth of credit card debt for the wedding.

You don't have any choices. You're working. So that's, you know, I'm not trying to be mean to you, but I don't want to be unclear either. I want to love you enough to tell you the truth.

If you were my kid, this is exactly what I'd be telling you. The the it's a really simple equation. And then once you're working and making money all the time, then start thinking about how I can have a career where I make a lot of

money because I specialize in something,

I learn something, I do a craft, I do a

do take a class, a certification or whatever, and go go be whatever that is.

But the first step is survival. Then we

self-actualize.

>> Yeah. when I was exactly his age, making about exactly the same money, I had three extra side hustles on top of that to try to clear the debt, get myself to some good financial footing. So, both of you are going to be working a whole lot for a short season. We're not talking 5 years. You can clean this up in not the rest of your life, but you do have to get this in a zone and and this focused

intensity is needed right here. And um

you know it's real easy to get caught up in what your friends are doing or the family's doing or everybody's got an opin go to work.

Just get up, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. That it's it is that simple. And and that's exactly what both of you need. And you need an extra job, Michael. >> And if you want some ideas, you can jump on ramseyolutions.comsidehustle.

We've got a quiz there. I would do that on top of your full-time jobs that you're going to have. >> Yeah. >> That's what'll get you there. You knock it out in two years. You make 80 grand, you can throw 25 grand a year at this debt. It's gone in two years. That's the math. But you got to get that income up.

>> Well, I mean, they're used to living on nothing. So, >> really could just probably do it in about a year if you if you made Keep your expenses real low, get the income real high. >> And rice, rice and beans. You don't really need any hobbies or anything cuz you're just going to be working.

>> Got no one to impress. >> Yeah. You don't need Netflix. You ain't got time to watch it.

You're going to be if you're not sleeping, you're going to be working. And that that is the equation. And again, this is two years. And then you get your career jive and the two of you figure out what you're going to do with your lives and we move into that.

yeah, let's go be somebody, dude.

[Music]

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Well, buying or selling a house is a big deal and there's a lot of drama out there about real estate right now. When you're in the middle of trauma or drama, let me help you with something. Dr. John Deloney says, "Facts are your friends.

You can cut through all the opinions of your broke in-laws. You can cut through all the opinions of people on Tic Tac and Instagram with actual facts. And then based on facts, you make good, wise decisions, not based on hyperbole and drama. So, we'll help you with that. We have facts, ma'am. Just the facts on the US housing market trends. And you can get them at ramseysolutions.com/market.

And you can keep up with what the median house prices are really doing, what number of listings are out there for real, and what interest rates are for real. Ramseyolutions.com/market or you can click the notes in or click in the show notes and uh drop right straight into it. Madeline is in Virginia. Hi Meline, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm I'm doing okay. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yes. Um, so about five months ago in

March, um, my husband and our six-year-old son went on a fishing at the pier near our home and just like a regular time. And unfortunately, this time they did not make it back home. Um, my baby fell off the pier while fishing, catching a fish. My husband went after him and the river conditions just took them. >> Oh my god, I'm so sorry.

Thank you. Um, so I'm I'm a widow. My

husband was only 37. I was 36. My

birthday passed in June. And we have a another son who just turned three on Friday. Um, and as you can probably

imagine, I'm just lost.

>> I can imagine. Um, I'm so sorry.

>> Thank you. Um, >> it's terrible.

>> Yeah. Um, so I'm don't want to hold you

guys up too long. I know you have other callers, but um, yeah, I just don't know

what to do financially and um, I want to

make wise decisions. I want to get myself some help because every day I just want to crawl in a hole, but >> sure, >> our youngest baby does not let me.

>> Yeah. >> He gets me out of bed. think, you know, he was our blessing from God there.

>> Um, >> that just helped me keep going even when I just don't feel up to it. So, >> you know, losing my husband, there's a lot of logistics and stuff like that that I am still working through.

>> I haven't even really been able to work on my grief like I would like to.

>> Yeah. >> Um, but yeah, so um, I was a

stay-at-home mom essentially. We have a a business and my husband also an educator. Um and the business now with

him >> our business um the main thing that we offer is education support. Um my husband is special education teacher and also basketball training. We kind of did both under the business but he was you know the primary person on it. >> So there's not really there's not really a business. It was a side hustle and because it's not something you can sell, right?

>> Um it's possible. I never sat down to go

over that, but I will say the business kind of helped me with in like bring an

income like that I was missing from being at home. So, it it brought in a pretty decent income. I'll say >> but without him but without him there to do it. It Do you have >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um I I have someone that's been helping me, but I'm just mentally in a space where I can't even like market. I can't do the things I need to do to keep the business afloat.

I sometimes I think I can and then I just can't think clearly right now.

>> How have you survived the last 5 months covering the bills?

>> Um just um you know some monies that we

have with him being an educator, they did pay out a prrated amount of the rest of his his um salary. Um

>> you guys have any debt? >> From what I hear, >> yes, we we do have debt. Um, so the

house um was in at the mortgage is is

his name. I'm on the deed.

>> It doesn't matter. You get the house.

That doesn't matter. You the mortgage company won't do a thing. You just have to pay the mortgage is all. How much is the monthly mortgage?

>> Um, so it's 3530 roughly a month. And

then we do have a heliloc that's at 8.5%

that's roughly 550 to 650 per month.

>> So $4,000125 >> 4,000. A little over 41. Yeah. Exactly.

>> What was your household income?

>> Um before he passed, we were uh because

of the business fluctuating, we were close to 200 to a little over 200,000.

>> All right. Um so the business was making a lot of money then. Okay.

>> It was making good money. It fluctuated with me being home. We had our youngest I had him in 2022.

>> Do you have the ability to operate this business in some way long term?

That is my goal. I did have someone step in to help another friend who's an educator and I've kind of been outsourcing our clients, but you know, they were so tied to my husband. He's just an amazing man and teacher. Um and

and yeah, so um she's going to she's trying to help me, but I have to do my part too, which has been hard.

>> Yeah. >> Um and I have to bring in new business.

That's that was what I did for the business. I brought in the business and my husband uh this past year he had >> that answers my question. Um >> what uh did you have life insurance?

>> Yes, we did have life insurance.

>> How much? >> Um so between the life insurance and some gifts because some neighbors wrote did a GoFundMe for us. It's roughly 500,000. >> Good. Okay. And how much do you owe on your home?

>> 588. >> Okay. 585 about left and on the helock

about 73,000.

>> So here's um what we're going to try to do. Okay.

I always recommend if we can figure out a way for you to eat that you don't do

any big decisions for 6 months.

It takes that long to breathe again.

>> It's it's been five, but I mean and it's

still really raw. Okay.

>> And but the waves of grief catch you off balance. You don't know when they're going to hit. Um and you know there's some days you like you said you don't feel like getting out of bed but you have to. You got a three-year-old. You got a business. And so these are two things that are um dragging you out. So

um yeah I So number one goal for

long-term sustainability for you and the three-year-old is for you to work your way through this grief. And that's probably going to require you spend some time sitting with someone. And it's also going to require that you keep a really good community around you of people that you can call and just cry with.

And that can be people at your church, your pastor, it could be these neighbors that stepped up to help you. And that is not there's no shame in that. And uh Dr.

Deloney always says that some of the research they have on grieving says grief demands a witness. It is most

effectively done in community, not alone.

>> Right? >> And so I want you to plug in and work on you because you're actually the secret sauce of your future, not any of this other stuff. And then as

you're doing that, what I want you to do is um give that church and are you in a good church there?

Yeah. Actually, the Sunday before the accident, my husband completed his membership class at the church we've been attending. >> Perfect. Okay.

>> So, that church's job >> is to take care of widows and orphans.

It's in the book.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. That's their job. Let them do their job by asking for community,

asking for support.

I don't think you need any money. I think you're okay.

>> Okay. >> Well, can I can I can I speak to that just a sec? >> Sure. >> I don't want to It's obviously I mean it's a good amount. Thank God this this was b gave us this blessing. I know we

can't live off of it and this is double grief for me. This is, you know, leaving my child and my husband at the same time. I just don't know mentally where I'm going to be. I don't want to make the wrong decision. >> I don't want you to either. I want you to make no decision right now. I want you to take out just enough to barely eat and barely pay the house payment and keep this business running as best you can and go through the healing process.

Give yourself some room, girl. You deserve it. This is a tragedy. It's a trauma.

Okay? It's normal human behavior to hurt

in this. And here's what we're going to do. Okay? I'm going to line you up.

Kelly's going to pick up and we're going to line you up with a Ramsey coach and they'll coordinate with your church. And it's our gift. It's not going to cost you a thing. And they're going to walk you through the financial stuff of exactly what to do. But we've got to work through the grief process. And you got to give yourself the grace to do that. You deserve it. You've been through the most horrible thing imaginable. I'm so sorry. You hang on, kiddo. We're going to walk with you.

[Music]

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Thanks for being with us, America. We're glad you're here. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. There

are new trainings every week this month, and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsy personalities. George, when is your next one? >> Uh, I believe it's next week.

>> Oh, there we go. >> There's always another one around the corner, and they've been so fun. The attendance has been awesome and the live Q&A is my favorite part, of course, getting to interact with the people. >> Yep.

Live Q&A. It's free. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and you're going to find on average $9,560 worth of margin. That's the average person putting this together.

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And if you do it quickly, you might even be in George's group next week.

>> All right. Cassidy is in Canada. Hi,

Cassidy. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I have a question about work uh

and my finances. So, I have an undergraduate degree in nursing that took four years, a medical degree that took four years, and now I'm in residency. I'm two years through my residency. I have three years to go.

When I finished medical school, I had a total including my mortgage of $484,000

of debt. >> How much of that is mortgage and how much of that's med school?

>> Uh 160,000 was mortgage and 300,000 was

student loans and then I had 20,000 in car loan. >> Mhm. >> So that was two years ago. I when I

started residency, I wanted to start paying down my debt uh quickly. So, I

renewed a nursing license. Um, so now I

work about my maximum number of hours I

can legally work a week as a resident is 90 and then I pick up hours as a nurse besides that. >> Um, and I've been doing well with the debt, I think. Um, I've saved up my $1,000 for baby step one and now I'm down from a total of $484,000 of debt to

430,000 of debt in >> way to go. Wow. It's impressive. So, what are you making in the residency? What are you getting paid? 50.

>> I bring home 48.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> A year. >> And good. And and the side gig on nursing, what's it producing?

>> Um I work, you know, it depends on how busy I am as a resident, but somewhere between um $700 to $1,500 every two

weeks, >> depending on how many shifts I can get. >> Okay. So 1,500 3,000 a month.

>> So um you know, 30 grand on top of your 50 grand. So you're probably averaging about 80. Okay. And you paid down. Wow, you are really killing it. You are working like a maniac, girl. I'm proud of you. >> Well, thank you. Um, that's where my question comes in. So, that might be a little bit of the issue or maybe not.

So, I was a previously very healthy person in the first two years of residency. I've I've actually been off with pneumonia a couple times in the last 6 months. And, you know, I don't think doctors are great with money. Um, so I don't necessarily heed their advice, but a number of them have been saying, you know, you should slow down.

you shouldn't work so much. We think it's kind of dragging you out a little bit and you're going to pay it all off when you finish residency in three years anyways, but I don't really know if that's true. Um, >> it it is true. And so, here's the thing.

>> If you kill the goose that's laying the

golden eggs, you then it's kind of u, you know, you're not what you're what you're entering into is not sustainable. In other words, if you are truly uh burning yourself up

to the point that it's affecting your health, then you do need to dial it back.

>> And you're the best person to decide if that's really the cause of all that.

>> It sounds like it could be cuz you're run your number of hours is enormous.

>> And I believe in hard work. I'm the guy yelling at everybody to go hard work, right? But I mean, you you're you're a you're a beast, girl. I mean, it's amazing. >> You're like sprinting and it's a marathon. And so, you've got a ways to go. If you if you you do really believe that it is affecting your health, don't you?

>> Um, I don't know. I try not to like think about it too much. >> I'm not talking about emotionally. I'm talking about intellectually. You're a freaking doctor. Tell me, doc. Is this

girl burning herself up? And is it causing her to get pneumonia because of her fatigue level?

>> Perhaps. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I think I think perhaps is a fair answer. I'm not a doc, but that would be my answer. So yeah, I think I'm going to

dial it back far enough that I quit having fatigue based health problems.

>> Mhm. >> So would you cutting back? >> I don't know that that's all the way back to residency, >> but um >> right, >> you know, you just get, you know, you need to shave 10, 15, 20% off of this thing on the nursing side. And if that slows down your get out of debt plan and you're you're not going to make it out of debt before you finish residency anyway.

No, I'm ask >> no matter what. No whether you stay what you're doing or whether you dial it back. So it's just a matter of how much is going to be there when you finish.

That's the only question.

>> So in that sense, the docs are correct.

I agree. Don't take it financial advice from doctors. They're the only thing worse is football players.

>> Uh god on managing money, right? So it's like but the uh uh >> they're great at spending it. >> Yeah. So yeah, I I yeah, but I but I do think you know your body and you know

>> the medical charts and some of the stuff you're getting is fatigue based. You're just you're you're just burning up every piece of protein in your body and there's nothing left to fight anything.

Does that sound right?

>> Yeah, it does. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm I'm I want you to dial back.

I'm with you. and uh you know, so in other words, you got if you end up with $50,000 more to deal with after residency, but you retain your health, we're going to call that a win.

>> Okay. All right. >> And you're not going further into debt, right? You're able to cover all of your bills and make minimum payments on the debts with your residency take-home pay.

>> Yes. Uh the interest on the debt is quite high, but I am able to pay the interest and then like I've, you know, I've knocked it back. >> Yeah. But in terms of you're not He's saying you're not borrowing money for student loans at any >> No, I am not. >> That game's over. >> You're not borrowing money to live either. >> We're off the other side of this. Yeah.

>> No, I when I finished medical school, I stopped. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 27. >> Wow. Okay. Well, when you're 37, you're

going to look back and say this was worth it because you paid a price to win

and you're winning. Okay. But let's let's do it in a way that you survive it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. All the signs indicate that you're going to pay off this debt very aggressively once you're out of residency. And so to Dave's point, delaying it by a tiny bit so that you survive it, I would be doing that.

That's a good trade-off. >> Yeah, I think it is. And I think the docs were giving you good advice in in that method. But not kick the whole can down the road, but kick a smaller can down the road um than than you were going to.

And so that yeah that there's nothing wrong with that at all because you are going to get there and when you come out of this your income's going to be substantial and you will immediately probably get a good signing bonus now too which knock off a bunch of this as well. So >> I'd hire her.

>> Yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, not only she's sharp, she's not afraid of work.

Hello. And that seems to be a thing. All right. Frank is with us. Frank's in Florida. How are you, Frank?

>> I'm doing great. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey Dave. So I I got a question. I've been considering calling you for about six months on. I'm sure you're very familiar with the industry that we do.

My question to you is how do you decide if you should switch out of a highpaying job that your heart isn't really fully in or don't morally agree with all the way. So specifically the company I'm with now, we do hard money loans for real estate investors and we also do rental loans and things like that. Um, I've been in it now for about going on two years now and um, I just don't know how to fully feel about it and if I should possibly switch out, but I also don't want to give up the money that's in it because there there is really good money in it.

Well, I mean it there's good money in in a lot of things with your skill set and your skill set is project management, uh, processing and sales.

>> Correct. >> And you can you can make a lot of money with those with that skill set and other things. And so, um, rather than hypothetically discussing this or philosophically discussing it, why don't you look for something,

>> okay? >> And go find something. And when you find something, then the decision starts to be easy. I mean, let's say you had a job, another job lined up that you did not have any moral conflicts with and um

made the same money, you you'd be gone and you wouldn't even have called me.

>> Yeah, that would uh that would be true as well. >> What are you making?

So, I'm on track this year to do about 80 to 100,000. Um, being my second year in it, I mean, last year was only about 40. >> Okay. So, there's the fallacy. The fallacy is I can't make 80 to 100,000 doing a different type of work. And we know that's not the case. So, to Dave's point, let's go start searching.

>> The skill set is what's going to carry you there. It's not the actual industry itself. >> What you have learned to do is transferable into other things. If you can sell, honey, you can do almost anything. Sales people are the highest paid profession in America today. Higher than programmers, higher than CEOs.

Salespeople are the highest paid

[Music]

[Music]

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Carly in Alaska. Showing dogs

is my passion and expensive hobby. I have been leaning toward getting a new show dog, but I'm not sure if I should because of my financial goals. I'm debtree except for my house. I have a generous emergency fund and I'm investing 15% of my income.

I want to pay my house off in 5 years and believe I can do it if I'm very aggressive. I'm afraid getting a new show dog will derail my financial goals, but at the same time, I want to enjoy my life. I know at this point I'm supposed to be intentional instead of intense, but having a paidoff house when I turn 50 sounds pretty amazing.

Wow. Not that not on my bingo card.

>> Yeah. I The problem is I don't know u from this what the show dog cost. I mean

is the show dog 20 grand?

Uh if so, yeah, you got a problem. If the show dog goes two grand, then you shouldn't even have written this email. You should have just bought the dog. So, um >> the ratios help. >> Yeah. I mean, it's like what is ridiculous? Because if it's so big that it's, you know, it's going to take you 10 years to pay off your house instead of 5 years, that's an expensive freaking dog. >> But if it's 5 1/2 years versus five.

Okay. >> Yeah. Or whatever. I don't know. I'm sure it's not 20,000. And I hope it's not 20. Should be somewhere in between.

But I, you know, it depends on what kind of show dog we have in Alaska. Sled dog.

Show dog. >> I'm very curious. But I will say this, there will be another showd dog available 5 years from now when you're debtree completely with a paid for house. >> Yeah. So our instruction once you're out

of debt except the home and you have your emergency fund which is where she is and she's working baby steps what we call four, five, and six. Four is 15% of your income going into retirement. She's doing that. Five is kids college doesn't come up here. Six is pay off the house early. So, and when you're in the first three baby steps, getting out of debt, you're supposed to be very intense. Work like a crazy person, no vacation, no eating out, complete scorched earth lifestyle, get your butt out of debt.

When you get the emergency fund, you get to her stage, you move from intense to intentional.

And intentional just says the facts

should inform what you want to do. So, what I would do is say it because we don't have the number here. You and I don't, George. But the if I were in her shoes, I would say being intentional looks like this. 15%'s going into my into my retirement. She didn't didn't she didn't discuss losing that, which is perfect. The only thing is how much

delay is there going to be in paying off my house because of the cost of the dog.

And that's a math thing. You can look at it. It's not emotional at all. The show dog purchase is emotional because you're into it obviously, but the actual math

you go, okay, the cost of the dog is this and that's going to delay the say by paying off the house by one month, two months, 3 months, 8 months, a year.

At what point does the dog inflict too much pain on the paying off the house?

Because right now, I think she's just got this jumbled up in her head that anything she does >> that's not paying off the mortgage is excessive and crazy. >> And that's not true. >> Exactly. >> At this stage, you're intentional. You buy a couch, you go on a trip, you upgrade your car, you buy the show dog.

But again, if the show dog's 50 grand or something, I no, you're not in a position to do that. Um, >> what I would do is just create a scing fund and as I have extra above and beyond my mortgage payoff goal, I'll throw the money in there and that becomes my show dog fund. And once I have enough. >> Yeah. Or again, if it's a small amount,

quit making it emotional. Look at the math. >> Go, I the math will tell you to do it right now and just go, it's it's not going to it's going to cost me a half a month. Well, so what? I mean, you get the dog, right? That's what you do here.

So, that's fun.

It's very interesting. I can't think I can't I cannot hear read this email without thinking about best in show.

>> Oh my goodness. Yes. which I think a French bulldog won last year.

>> No way. >> I I don't know. I think I remember seeing it. I did own a retired show dog, though. My first pug that I had was a retired Guess how old this pug was? Two.

Out of the game. He's like a pro alete.

It's like NFL for this pug.

>> He got He got his blue ribbon and he's done. >> Exactly. So, I had a retired show dog.

His name was Elvis >> with a snoring problem.

>> Yeah. 100%. Those flat faces.

>> 100% of pugs. What about this dog is like a championship winning dog?

>> But it gave me hope that I could also be a winner one day.

>> If that little schnitle floof can get a

ribbon, I was like, I should be able to >> get a ribbon. If if that guy can do it, I can do it. Trace is in Columbus, Ohio.

Hey, Trace. What's up?

>> Hey Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, I've got a question. I have a 2018 Kia that has 104,000 miles and I owe

eight and a half thousand.

>> Yeah, I owe $85,000 on it, but I have it

in the shop by monthly uh for hundreds of dollars to get stuff fixed. So, my question is, do I stick with the loan, pay it off, and just deal with all the um maintenance, or do I go get a loan

for $20,000 for a Toyota 4Erunner?

Wow, that escalated quickly.

>> We went from hundreds of dollars to tens of thousands of dollars >> to going deeper into debt.

>> So, okay, let let's pretend that your Kia is a piece of crap. It wouldn't be hard to pretend. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. No. >> And it's worth what? What's it worth today?

>> Uh, it's about 75 on Kelly Blue Book.

>> Okay. So maybe you can get out of this thing close to hole even, right?

>> Sure. Yes, sir. >> What about doing that? Says $20,000 Toyota. Nothing in this sentence makes sense. Why not get a reliable $10,000

car and stay about even and then get that car paid off?

>> Yeah, I mean that's that's a good point.

My my whole reasoning was if I could get something >> $10,000, you know, more than what I have right now on already owing it.

>> You think that's the only way you get a reliable car? No, it's not. The way you get a reliable car is you buy a reliable car.

>> Yes, sir. >> You buy a $10,000 Camry, a $10,000 Acura, and you'll be just Honda Accord, you'll be just fine.

old 10 old $10,000 Lexus for that matter. You'll be just fine until you get it paid off. We're not going to drive this thing for five years. We're going to drive it for five or 10 months while you get paid off. What are you making?

>> I make $30,000 a year.

>> Yeah. You don't need a $20,000 car anyway.

Too much money tied up in things going down in value. >> You have other debt. >> You don't make enough money to drive a $20,000 car.

>> So, >> I do not have any other debt.

>> I don't care. You don't You make 30,000.

You don't need 20,000 going the wrong way.

>> Sure. >> As it goes down in value like a rock.

That's where Chevy gets that like a rock. >> I don't even know Kia's tagline.

>> Oh, it's like I'm sure it's in a foreign language, but yeah. And it says it says crappy car, but yeah. Um, yeah, I'm with

you. I'm getting rid of the car, but I'm going to break even. I'm not going to use this as an excuse to get into a mess.

That's the bottom line. and you're you're you're saying, "Oh, I'm spending $200. I need to go spend 20,000." No,

you just keep spending the $200. You'll still come out way ahead mathematically.

It's a pain in the butt. But if the car really is doing this, at some point it just gets to be so frustrating that you need to do something. I'm okay with that. But find a reliable, and I just named some that you can drive for two 300,000 miles.

And we're not buying anything with sex appeal here. This is reliable. We were just trying to get to work >> A to B >> without spending 200 bucks every other month. And so, >> and you can do a pre-purchase inspection.

It's going to cost you 100 150 bucks with a respected mechanic in your area. And that'll let you know you're not buying a lemon. So, don't just go buy any car and then hope.

That way you know what you're getting into next time. >> A real mechanic, not AI.

Just Just as a side note. Yeah. A real one. Were there fake ones out there?

>> Well, there's artificial intelligence analysis. >> Oh gosh. >> And we don't need any analysis of a used car by something that's artificial.

>> I need like a real person. >> Artificial means not real, by the way.

That's like not real. Sugar sucks. Yeah.

Let me help you with that. So artificial sweetener.

>> No thanks. >> Yeah. >> Dave needs the real stuff. >> Yeah. I need real intelligence, not artificial intelligence.

>> There you go.

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[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Live from the headquart. Headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do

work that they love, and create actual

amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, and host of the George Camel Show, is my co-host today.

Amy's in Denver. Hi, Amy. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Good. And hi, George. And thank you both for the program and the show. I I really really enjoy it and you're doing great things. So, thank you. Um, so I'm relatively new to following your program and I've really only been listening. I haven't read any of the books or anything admittedly. So, sorry, plan two. But, um, I'm just about

working on completing baby step number three. Uh, but my question is the the

should the six-month emergency fund include retirement and investing and giving or should it just be for survival

expenses? Oh, what what number? Times six or times three. Yeah, just survival expenses.

>> Just survival.

>> Let's pretend let's pretend the emergency was you lost your job and you didn't have an income. >> Well, you would stop retirement and you would stop generosity in the middle of that or or largely stop it. And so, um,

you know, you're not going to use savings to fund those things. You're going to use savings to pay the house payment, eat, keep the lights on, that kind of stuff, >> right? Okay. Awesome. Then, hey, I just finished baby step number three on this call.

>> That was easy. >> Awesome. >> I like a redefinition. That's good.

Yeah. >> Did you go with three or six months or somewhere in between?

>> Six. I did six. >> Good. >> Love it. You can't go wrong with that.

No one's ever complained. They went, "Man, I just have so much savings to help." >> So, how much uh how much is in that account now?

>> Uh, so I right now I have 18,000. Um,

let's see. 18,828.

pretty precise. Okay. Yeah. Let's finish

it to finish it. I'd take it up to 20 and then I'd quit. Yeah.

>> Dave likes round even numbers.

>> Yeah. That way I can remember what it is. Yeah.

>> Because I've already forgotten the $18,000 number. So yeah, I I would >> Yeah. You'll knock that out within the next month. >> Yeah. Just finish that up and then you know I got 20 grand for things go back sideways. I got 20 grand. And that gives you a level of peace. Just like when you got all your debts paid off, you had a level of peace. Now you're starting to get financial peace. two words that don't go together like airline service.

So there you go. Open phones here at8255225.

Dakota is in Nashville. Hey Dakota, what's up? >> Hey, how are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Uh so I just had a question. Um, I bought I bought 50 acres in Shelbyville uh towards the end of 2023, which I know probably was not a good time to buy anything, but um it from my perspective,

I thought it was a reasonable price for the amount of land. I got it for 320.

Um, and I've got that down to 228. Um,

and I've done uh water out there and electric. Um, and I just my interest rate is like 8.5. So, my monthly payments just like break my heart to see the small amount that's actually going to my loan. And I didn't know if maybe would building something out there and doing a mortgage loan.

Do you think I could get a better rate? Um I mean, I'm still working on baby step number two, getting three months uh or more worth of, you know, bills in my savings, but I just I don't know.

>> Okay. Um, so you went $300,000 in debt

to buy land as an investment while you still have other debt.

>> I do not have any other debt. Mr. Car, >> I thought you said you're in baby step two.

>> Well, so no, no, sorry. Debt is paid off. I've got a $1,000 as emergency savings and then I'm working on I thought I'm sorry. I'm baby steps amazingly. I thought number two was um getting months worth of, you know, three months worth of bills. No. Okay. Number.

Are you debtree other than this land or do you have a house? >> Yes, sir. >> Nope. No home. I live with my parents still.

>> What was the goal of getting this land?

>> What was the vision? >> I have I have cows um and horses and I

would like to live out there eventually, but there's no rush. My mother's health is not great. So, it benefits everyone me being home right now, I think. Um but it's just me being >> I'm 28. I'll be 29 next month.

Okay. All right. Um,

well, I'm trying to think how to how to

how how to position this within a framework that it makes sense. Um, no, I

would not tell a 28-year-old to go buy a $300,000 piece of raw ground and put water and electric on it as an investment and go $300,000 in debt to do it. No, I would never tell you to do that ever. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um

but uh not not to get a cow. It's an expensive cow. Okay.

>> No, you're you're exactly right. You're exactly right. Yes, sir. >> Yeah. So, um the um

but uh what do you make a year?

>> Um last year I made about 98 and I think the year before that was like 104.

>> What do you do?

>> I'm self-employed. I'm a mobile dog groomer.

>> Wow. Okay. You are an animal girl. Um

>> I think >> Yeah, I think yeah. Um

the only way this makes sense is for you to put a house in it and move on it and get your get your rate down. What you ask is correct. I your your question is proper. >> Um it's a good it's a really good question you're asking. So you get out of the 8% world and you get into the five and a half five and 3/4% world on a

15-year fixed rate and you put your little house on there of some kind.

doesn't have to be fancy, but let's get something on there >> and get started. And and you know, and here's the thing, it's your personal residence from a standpoint of getting the mortgage, but if you only sleep there three nights a week, that's not a big deal, >> okay? >> Because you're four nights a week with mom, >> right? >> At least then we can put this in the bucket of baby step six and it becomes your home. You owe 300 grand on it.

That's acceptable in your situation.

Okay? If we leave it in the bucket of I

have this investment real estate I'm developing in Shelbyville, Tennessee.

Uh, no, you got to sell that. That don't make any sense at all.

>> Right. No, you're right. I get it. It was totally a personal thing and it may not have been a smart move. Um, >> no, it wasn't. It was It was way out of control. It was somewhat panic driven.

>> Um, I'm not even sure you got that great a deal, but um, >> probably not. >> Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. It's beautiful down through there. I drive down through there all the time. I love shuffle. >> It is beautiful. But um and that's how you say it. It's not Shelbyville unless you're unless you're a Yankee. It's Shville. >> But yeah, so one that Yes, sir.

>> But that Yeah, that that I I >> Yeah, I think that's the only way this makes sense is we're going to convert it to what you had kind of in the back of your mind as a plan. That's the question you asked. So I'm I'm going with your question. I think that's the way to do it.

>> Um >> nothing's on fire. Like I know it's a high interest rate, but you still have the emergency fund to work through. You need to have some money for this house to happen. And so I wouldn't rush any of this.

>> I think you can afford it. I'm not positive. >> I'd crunch the numbers on that. You're going to add a house to the loan on top of the land loan. >> Depends on what we're going to spend. >> So, I wouldn't go crazy. Like Dave said, just do something as simple as possible right now. You can always upgrade and add add to it later. >> Yeah. uh maybe do a uh an architectural

plan that allows for additions the way it's designed and you just build the first section to live in and you you turn it I'm trying to turn it into a personal residence that way you get to keep it otherwise I think you need to sell it. >> That's what it comes down to. So yeah, your question's accurate. Interesting.

>> And Dave loves land more than anyone I know. >> I like dirt. I'm a dirt boy for sure.

>> Sometimes you just push it around. Get your little truck out there and I've seen you out there. I'm like what does Dave do? No, he's just pushing dirt around. >> Yeah, like a seven-year-old grew up. No, I actually had a little project I was working on. George, come on. Give me a break. >> If you're 65 and you got a little bulldozer, you got to drive it. >> There's worse hobbies to have.

[Music]

[Music]

Man, my day just got considerably

better. George. George, I like you, but I I I don't like you nearly like I like this guy. This guy is one of my favorite people on the entire planet, and a whole bunch of other people are as well. Uh

the one and only Pastor Max Leo has

stopped in again to hang out with us.

We've done this a couple of times because you write a book every year.

>> We go way back. >> And every year I get the pleasure of helping you do that. And that's an excuse for you and me to hang out a little bit. >> We we go several offices back, it seems.

Yeah, several studios. >> This is the seventh studio we promoted Max Leo's books in. Yeah, that's >> it's a it's a real privilege.

>> And my hours, too. >> Uh if you don't know who Pastor Max Lo is, he's one of the bestselling authors in the world. Um hundred over 100

million products in print. Uh

unbelievable numbers. And uh and an incredible writer. Uh he's dubbed America's pastor by Christianity Today and the best preacher in America by Readers Digest. and he is definitely all of that. Oakill's church down in San Antonio. I've had the honor of speaking there several times with him or he's allowed me to be there. And uh so Max

Leo uh this newest book is Tame Your

Thoughts: Three Tools to Renew Your Mind

and Transform Your Life. When I was

reading over this, I was blown away when you had done the numbers on the the

amount of thoughts that we have.

>> Mhm. Stunning. 70,000 thoughts a day.

70,000 thoughts. And according to the Cleveland Clinic, four out of five of those are either negative or self-critical. That's stunning.

>> Yeah. We talk nasty to ourselves.

>> We do. We We're our own worst enemy. And learning to liberate ourselves from that is absolutely essential.

>> So, what what got you going on this subject? some of these same statistics, Dave. Uh when I read especially about

our our adolescents in this day and age, 42% say they live under a cloud of anxiety or depression. Uh 22% of

adolescents have contemplated suicide in the six months prior to the survey. Uh

we grown-ups don't fare much better.

About two out of five of us live with a constant state of anxiety that needs some type of help or assistance. and and so it this discussion about a mental health crisis is is real and uh I wanted

to try to tackle it from a from a spiritual and scriptural standpoint.

>> Yeah, it's a complicated subject. U but

as scripture often does, it guides us into a um a very it puts the cookies on

a shelf where we can reach it to to a complicated subject, a fairly clean answer that's easy to understand but hard to do. >> Mhm. Yeah. Because like a lot of scripture, you love your neighbor. Oh, yeah. That's that I got it, but yeah, I got to do that now. Yeah, that's hard.

Yeah. So, uh, with all all the advice

that's out there and how this being complicated, how'd you land on these three tools? You said the three tools to renew your mind and transform your life.

>> Yeah. This is just out of pastoral work.

You know, I've been ordained since 79 and uh over the years I've tried to hone because I see this so often as you do, both of you do. You see that our behavior is is a result of belief. You know, if you want to change your behavior, you change your belief. You don't deal first with the behavior.

You got to what's the frame of reference or the worldview that you're coming at. And I've realized that if we can encourage people to number one, practice picky thinking. You know, you just because you have a thought, you don't have to think it. Take that thought captive is the way the scripture says.

leads to a false narrative that leads to an overreaction. That's the world.

>> Oh, the drama queen. >> Yeah.

>> When when there's an overreaction, it's because somewhere back upstream there's an untruth that's taken root. And then tool number three is uproot and replant.

When you discover those untruths, you got to get they're weeds in the garden and you got to take them seriously. You got to uproot. It's not enough to pull them out. You got to replant. And you replant with truth out of scripture.

>> Wow. You know, I've uh observed this

over these decades and you have too, that when someone's life is intersected by the gospel >> and they start to understand truth and then they compare that to >> the dysfunction that they maybe came out of. >> Absolutely. and they go, "Okay, I've got to uproot >> and I have to have a new set of >> and and it literally you get to watch

someone's life be transformed, but also their entire legacy, their entire family tree shifted because of their intersection with truth." >> Absolutely. Absolutely.

>> It's so powerful. >> It's powerful. >> As you were sharing those, I kept thinking, "Oh, that's like what Dave has done for 30 years on the radio cuz we sell hope here." So how would if you were on a call with us and someone called in and they were over overwhelmed with their finances, how do these tools apply? >> Let's take UFO into the world of finances. Okay, UFO. Unt leads to a

false narrative that leads to an overreaction. The untruth is I'm only as

valuable as I appear. Okay? So I'm going

to dress to the nuns. I'm going to do everything to my body I can so I can be valuable. Well, that's a lie. That's the untruth. That would lead then to a false narrative. The reason that I need a job, the reason that I need a credit card, the reason that I need money is so I can accumulate, so I can have more stuff because my stuff create translates in into value. Well, then that leads into overreaction, debt, problems, uh, comparison,

competition, insecurity.

And so 25year-old

pastor Max when I was ordained I would have I would have dealt out here with the overreaction. Well just quit spending so much or quit buying so much or you're materialistic >> or these days I would say wait there's something that they've believed back upstream. If we can figure out what that value system dysfunction is, I think we

can deal with the overt reaction. >> And that's the replacing it with the truth. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Larry Bquette used to say, "Financial problems aren't the problem. They're the symptom." >> There you have it. >> And that's true of a lot of problems.

>> A lot of problems were that we see.

They're not the marital problem isn't the problem. It's a symptom. It's you go upstream, you find selfishness. Or you go upstream, you find, >> you know, whatever. But but, you know, this actual argument is not the deal.

Absolutely. There's something up there behind it. And get get behind >> and you can flip it on its head. Okay.

Let's take the truth and that is I'm a child of God. I'm born of God. I'm destined to spend forever with God. may not be the best looking guy in the world, but who cares, man? I've got I've got more than I'm more than I deserve, right? >> And the that leads then to a healthy narrative of life. I'm put here for a purpose with a purpose to make a big deal out of God. Okay? That leads then to a right reaction. Who can I serve today? How can I be a good person today?

I'm going to honor the Lord today. So, it's a whole different mindset, but we deal with this uh problem of toxic thoughts by going back to the beginning.

You can apply those same tools to any type of thoughts, anxiety, lust, greed, bitterness, anger. But you take those three tools and put them to use. And whatever your toxic thought pattern is, I think you make progress. >> Yeah. Some of these uh people that live in your head need an eviction notice.

>> They're living there rentree. >> They're living there rentree. That's right. Yeah. >> Tame your thoughts. Three tools to renew your mind and transform your life. the one and only Max Leo, multiple New York

Times bestselling author and uh I've read almost everything he's written and it's a lot. And all the way back to uh

maybe Grip of Grace had to be before that was in the early 90s reading way back there. I remember you and I having lunch the first time in San Antonio and I was I was such a fanboy. I was just gaggot. I couldn't hardly eat my lunch.

I got to have lunch with Max Leo. What was really weird is I called him and he returned my call. That was really weird.

>> Well, you bought lunch. >> Yeah. Well, there's that. That's all it takes. There's that. >> A little generosity goes a long way.

>> So, uh, last thoughts on thoughts. What?

This is this is so such a powerful thing because it all begins there.

>> It does. It does. You want to have a better life tomorrow. Uh, take inventory of your thoughts today. We all have toxic thought patterns. We do. Uh, we all have a proclivity towards some type of quick sand of thoughts. So, identify yours. Ask the Lord to help you. Uh, don't be conformed to the world, the scripture says, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

>> Romans 12:2. >> That's one of your favorite verses. >> It is. It is. Because it's what I signed Total Money Makeover with for >> Is that right? >> Yeah. 14 million copies now. Yeah.

Beautiful. Wow. >> Yeah. It's You can do it.

How how don't don't be like everybody else. >> Yeah. Yeah. God made our brain.

He can retrain our brain, right? And that's really what thoughts are. They're habits. So creating better thought habits is really what it means to be a follower of Christ.

>> Perfect. >> Beautifully said. >> The one and only Pastor Max Leo. I love you, brother.

>> Love you too, D. >> Thanks for getting to hang out with us. I Good to see you again. Anytime I get to spend a few minutes with you, my day is better, my life is better.

I've got my own Max Lo autograph copy

that will go in my autograph copy collection of books and it's got quite a few Max LO books in it. Autographed.

I'll just tell you. This is the Ramsay Show. [Music]

This is funny.

It's National Make a Will Month.

>> How are you celebrating, Dave?

>> Sorry. Had to do it.

>> Horrible. >> It really is, though. And uh it's a real thing. So they sent me this thing. They said five reasons people don't do a will. >> Number one, procrastination. 43% of adults without a will say they just haven't gotten around to it.

>> Just as they keel over and die. Yeah.

>> Perfect timing. >> Yeah. Perfectionism. I'm writing a will involves a few big decisions and I don't want to make them.

>> Three. This is like a comedy routine.

Thinking you need a certain amount of assets before you need a will. 40% of respondents in caring.com studies said they don't own enough to leave anybody a legacy. Well, okay, you got kids. Yeah, don't let the government decide for you.

Uh, who takes care of them? That's a dumb idea. Number four, a belief that everything automatically goes to a family. It does not.

>> Laws are different from state to state.

Number five, uncertainty about the process. Don't know where to start. If you want to take our wills quiz for a simple online quiz to learn about wills, you can do that. recommend it highly.

You really do need to get a stinking will. It's how you say I love you to the people. Listen, if you hate your family, leave everything very chaotic and make them sort through it cuz they'll all be pissed at each other and it'll take them it'll take years of their productivity away because they're going to be dealing with your crap. And the opposite is if you love your family, you leave everything very precise, very organized, and very systematized and detailed.

And that includes a will. So go to ramseyolutions.com will quiz. take the quick wheel quiz and we'll help you out. Karina is in Seattle.

>> Hello. I am well and thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Earlier this year I had picked up >> earlier this year I had picked up a second job because I realized that I would never be able to afford a home with my parents and so I've been putting away money and saving up.

>> You would never be able to afford a home with what?

>> Um just the single job that I had.

>> Oh, okay. I thought you said parents.

I'm sorry. Okay. You you you figured out you couldn't buy a home on your salary, so you picked up an extra job.

>> Correct. And I have been saving. And my

question is this. I had originally planned to do a 15-year fixed rate. Um but now after doing a little bit of math in the past 3 weeks, I've kind of been looking through all your videos and the materials you have available, and I've come to the realization that maybe buying in cash would be best. I am planning to buy a home with my parents simply because I live with my parents and the plan between my siblings and I is that I will be taking care of my parents.

So I was hoping that we would get this home go in together and they would live in this home and once I get married I would buy a house with my significant other.

They're both self-employed and they don't make a lot of money. Would it be best course of action if in I just put 7K into my Roth IRA? Would it be best if

I gift 8K to my father so that he could at least start? And my parents are 55 and 57 currently.

>> You're broke. So broke you can't buy a house. And you're asking how to take care of your parents who don't even make a good enough living to save for themselves.

>> Well, I'm not broke anymore. I do have savings now and I do have both jobs. I'm making a decent amount. >> How old are you? >> Um and I'm 30.

>> Okay. All right, I'm 65 and in this very

moment, I'm pretty aggravated with a couple of 55 year olds who have not bothered to take care of themselves so that their own kid is worried about having to take care of them.

>> They need to get off their butt

>> and go make some money and take care of themselves. >> And no, you don't need to move in with these people. They're financially irresponsible.

>> Well, they're immigrants. We're all immigrants and recently became US citizens. And so they don't really speak English very well. And so that's kind of part of the problem.

They're not very familiar with the US retirement system or anything like that. And so they've been employed their whole life. And they make about 32K together. Um, and they take care of the rent and everything.

So that's kind of why I've been able to save up during this time. >> But this feels like a recipe for disaster.

>> No. So that's kind of why I was hoping after listening um to a couple of your materials and whatnot was to pay cash that way they would only have a little bit of expenses. >> What country did you all immigrate from?

Immigrate from >> Ukraine. >> Okay. All right. And what does your mom and dad do for a living?

>> Um my mom is a housekeeper and my dad's a mechanic. >> Okay. And how long have they been here?

>> Uh a little over 25 years.

>> And they still don't speak English?

My dad can understand mostly everything.

He can do like the bare that he needs for his job and whatnot. He's pretty well verssed in his job, but in day-to-day it's a little bit more difficult or if it gets a little bit complex. My mom on the other hand, she speaks very very minimal.

>> Okay. All right. Um, if they've been here 2 months, that's an excuse. When

you've been here 25 years, it's no longer an excuse.

It's part of learning to function in the society to learn the language.

And um I mean I spend two weeks in Mexico or three weeks in Mexico and by the time I leave my Spanish has increased dramatically.

And I'm not great with Spanish, but I'm going to learn while I'm there to be able just to function. And that's in 6

weeks, not 25 years. So, I'm going to

encourage your mom and dad to work on their English skills so that they can increase their incomes so that they can

take care better care of themselves so they're not dependent upon their 30-year-old single daughter to do that.

That's the This is not a sustainable situation. You're not going to buy a house with them and then move out and buy another house with your significant other. you're going to get trapped

and have a guilt trip to take care of them because they're immigrants and they don't make enough and they can't take care of themselves is the narrative that you've painted up. And so, no, I I I want to create a sustainable thing for them where they can pro not only sustain, but then they can move into prosperity.

So, um, yeah, that that's what I'm going to do if I'm in your all shoes. Now, that may go over not at all when you start talking to them about it. I understand that. But those are choices they make then and then you've got to decide what choices you make. But I I hesitate to put you into anything that causes you to have to take care of these grown people.

It, you know, it's an honorable thing to do. I If you go make a go make $2 million or something and you want to make sure they have food, that's not what I'm talking about. But um at 55 and

56, they have plenty of time to create a sustainable life. >> Yeah. This is going to create more codependence, more enabling, more entitlement if they move in with you, which gives them no onus to really have to take care of themselves cuz daughter's got us. She's always got us.

They've got to learn how to be independent. So instead of kickstarting retirement, get them a Dolingo subscription. I don't know how. Give them away so that they can create a life for themselves instead of you constantly propping it up, which is a very noble, sweet thing to do, but it doesn't solve the problem at hand. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. I No, I would not buy a house with them. Um, but because I I

don't think it's going to lead you in 30 years where you want to be and I think it's going to cause you pain uh and handcuffs uh and all of those kinds of things.

Katie's in Kansas. Hey Katie, what's up?

>> Hi. Thank you for having me on.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, I am curious if it's inappropriate of me to ask my husband to find a job that pays more to support our family.

>> What does he make?

uh 2024 he made 32,000.

>> No, it's not inappropriate at all. Why does he not want to do better?

>> Um the last time we had this conversation, he said that he thinks he makes enough and we have four kids and

it >> he makes half of the national average.

You're a lower income family with four kids approaching the poverty level. No, he does not make enough.

So then how do I go about having that conversation? >> Probably could just say that >> and numbers and facts help too to go listen here's our expenses here.

>> Pull it up. Look it up. What's the poverty level with four kids? Average household income 78,000 right now. We

make 32. We got four kids. Poverty level with four kids is probably 26 27 28. I don't know. It might be 30. And so yeah, I think I do really believe on national poverty statistics that you're there.

And I think you point that out. So, no, he doesn't make enough. And >> I'm curious, sorry. Um, he also has

bipolar disorder and PTSD. So, does that

play a factor? Should I not put more pressure on him because of his struggles? >> Uh, no. He's got to work within those guidelines. That's a context. It's not an excuse as Dr. Deloney says. So, the

context is I have to work within my bipolar, within my PTSD and earn enough to pay for four kids.

And otherwise it activates bipolar and

act the stress and act activates PTSD.

[Music]

Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 6:19.

We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure.

Serena Williams said, "I am lucky that whatever fear I have inside me, my desire to win is always stronger."

Lori is in Florida. Hi, Lori. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. >> What's up? >> Um, I am going through a pretty um bad

divorce. Um, I had to cash in some of my

retirement account um, back in March because my um, spouse

decided to stop u supporting our family.

Um, of that money I have about $38,000 left

from there.

We just sold a second home that we had

and I was able to get partial proceeds

from that um 70,000.

So my question is um I have credit card

debt. Um I just started working again.

I'm basically a single mom because I'm not getting any financial support from him. And um >> how many children do you have?

We have one together um >> with you. >> And yes. >> And how old?

>> 10. >> And how has your lawyer g gotten away let them get away with no financial support?

>> Um he has lost his job. He had a very

good career and he made some really bad

um decisions and to the point where he may lose a license um may not may not

have a career. >> Okay. So, he doesn't have an income. That's why you don't have child support. It's not because he's just being arbitrary. Not because the divorce is tough. He he lost his job.

>> He did. And he had also he also cashed out all of our kids kids um college

funds, retirement accounts that he had.

And he's basically being non um he's not

being forthcoming with his financials.

>> Is your is your attorney riding riding him? >> I mean, you're slapping him around, pulling him up before the judge and exposing all this, right?

>> Yes. Um, the thing is I just came into

this lump sum of money fairly recently

and I need to pay my attorney basically what I owe him. >> Yeah. What do you owe your attorney?

>> 20,000. >> Okay. Out of the 70 that leaves you 50 and then you got 36 left from the other.

>> Yes. >> And you got taxes and penalties. You got taxes and penalties on that retirement account you cashed out.

>> Yes, sir. >> Coming up next year. This was in 25 you did that or 24? I did 25.

>> All right. And you cashed out 50 grand.

>> And so you're going to have a $5,000 penalty plus your taxes on that are about another 20 grand. You're about a $25,000 tax bill.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Just just being prepared for next April. Okay. Mentally, that's what we got to do. And are you working? Obviously, you are. You said you're a single mom. What do you make?

>> Um, I have been out of the workforce.

I'm a nurse. Um, I've been out of the workforce for um, several years and I just went back to work in uh, in May.

>> Good. >> And >> what do you make?

>> Um, after taxes about 4,200 a month.

>> And you're a nurse?

>> I am. >> Okay. All right. You're not getting a lot of hours, are you?

Um it's u I've had to if I went and

worked night shift I could get differentials that then I have child care >> issues. >> Yeah I got you. >> I'm I'm relying on >> family and and friends right now for child care because he can't be >> he's not involved. >> I understand. Can't be with what's going on. He's obviously got some bad stuff going on. Yeah. Okay. >> He does. >> Um All right. And so your question was what? Let me let me get back to that.

>> What do I I owe my if I give my to speed

this divorce up, I'd pay my attorney

20,000.

>> Mhm. >> And um then I potentially will get the rest

of the proceeds that were from the

vacation home sale.

>> Yeah. >> Now our mayors offet to offset the fact that he hit all the other stuff. Yeah.

>> Yeah. The marital home um is currently

um being sold as well. So now I'm in the

process of looking for a place to to go to live with my >> with my daughter. >> Are there proceeds from that too?

>> There will be there's significant over it'll be >> you're asking are you asking whether to pay your attorney the 20k? Yes is the answer. >> Okay. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Here's Listen. As long as this drags out, you cannot create your future

cuz you're living in your past.

>> Yes, sir. >> And it it's painful as hell. I mean, this is a hard it's hard to listen to you. It's awful. I'm so sorry for you.

>> And uh it's not only heartbreaking, it's ang it makes you angry and disgusted all at the same time. And all those emotions swirling around. It's hard to do anything. So, and and and I've just been talking to you 3 minutes and I'm already feeling all of it. So, I mean, it's like I I can't imagine being in your head.

So, bless your heart. I'm so sorry.

>> So, yeah, I I want to get this in the rearview mirror as fast as I can cuz it sounds like this guy needs to go away and I need clarity about what I've got to deal what cards I have in my hand to deal with my future.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Get the houses sold, get the money in the bank, build up the career, get an apartment, get settled, and then let's talk about rebuilding and going from here. Uh but the first thing we got to do is create a sustainable safe situation where we've got housing, where we've got a sustainable income and we have uh figured out what we have net net with a $25,000 tax bill coming up in the fall in the spring. And so, um yeah, um

I'm I'm paying him and getting all this in the rearview mirror as fast as I can.

And then I've got a friend that does divorce recovery work and uh she taught me years and years and years ago that divorce turns a business or turns a marriage into a business transaction. So this just becomes a column now of assets and liabilities of income and you just

it's just a math thing now because all all this emotion and all this um betrayal and all this misbehavior are

just the drama and the sidebar. But the the actual story is you and the 10-year-old moving forward with a pocket full of money and you're a nurse and you can go make a great living being a nurse and you're going to have a great life from here. But you just need, you know, to not have to burn all the calories dealing with this crap all the time, right?

>> Yes, sir. He's just wasted away like millions of dollars is >> I can't imagine. Can't imagine. I'm sure. >> Yeah. And hopefully you can get the proceeds from the vacation house, the family house, and everything to offset all the crap that he's, you know, that he's stolen from this discussion

>> and uh get it all set back up. And yeah, when you can get that and get this in the rearview mirror, it'll make all the difference in the world. >> Yeah. Clearing these debts at least with all these proceeds will clear you up financially and mentally.

Just there's a lot going on right now. Let's simplify as much as we can. >> Yeah. So main thing is get the attorney paid.

keep get that going. And then let's quantify. You know, I got $25,000 tax bill coming up. I need to hold that money aside.

And then I need to look at what else I need to clean up, get me an apartment, get an income that we can live on, and then from there, we'll build the career. From there, we'll build a life >> out of this. And that's where you're going from here, man. That's just painful.

It helps to just put it all down in writing. Put it on a note and just go, "Here's all the things that I have, all the debts I need to pay off. Here's all the money I have coming in." And it just helps clear it from your mind to see it on paper. And doing a budget will also help you. I'll gift you um every dollar, Lori, to help you just put all this on paper. I'm making 4,200 a month. Where should every single dollar be going?

That's one less thing you got to think about once you see it on on there right there on the app wherever you go. >> And I don't want you to rent something nice. I want you to rent something cheap cuz it's temporary. You're not going to be there long. You might be there one year maybe. So I This is not the Taj

Mahal. The 10-year-old's life is not going to be better because of the rental property you get. So just keep it cheap because you need the margin. I want you to have lots of margin where you're not touching any of this this pile of money at all for living. If you can set yourself up where you live on the 4200, that's a sustainable beginning and you go from there. So, wow. So, I'm sorry, kiddo. It's real painful. I ap I'm sorry you're going through that. It's awful.

It's not fair. And uh some people's

misbehavior. Wow. That puts us the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus. Heat.

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Heat.

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## 75. Get Out of Survival Mode So You Can Finally Move Forward | December 4, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLjjIiGjwxk) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:55:53 |

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start [music] budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your [music] life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Dave Ramsey. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. The phone number is88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. So you jump in, we'll help you out. It's what we're here for. Michael is in Jackson, Mississippi. Hey, Michael. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes, sir. So, um, I'm in a a sticky

situation in my life and I'm I'm I'm looking to at a way to to get out of it, to do better for myself and my family.

>> Okay, good. How can we help?

>> Yes, sir. So, I am 27 about to turn 28.

I have guardianship with my 17-year-old brother, have for the past four years.

I'm roughly $35,000 in debt, uh, with a lease, um,

some credit card debt, and a few other

charge offs on my credit. Um, I'm pretty

behind on most all my bills at this moment. I'm a doortodoor salesman,

and I'm uh I'm I'm trying to find a way out, man.

>> Okay.

Uh, are you married?

>> No, sir, I'm not. >> Okay. All right. And what are you making

as a door-to-d dooror salesman?

>> I've been here for about three months now. My last month, I've made $3,500.

>> Um, it's the slow season at this moment.

>> What do you sell? >> I stand I I sell roofs. I'm a door-to-d door salesman in the roofing industry.

[snorts] >> Yeah. Not exactly a Christmas present many people buy in December, huh?

>> No, sir. Not at all. [laughter] >> Yeah. If they buy a roof right now, it's cuz they really need one. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. >> All right. Um, so you made 3500 last month. What' you make the month before?

>> Roughly $3,000. Yes, sir.

>> Good. Okay. Good. Do they have any base for you at all or is it straight?

>> It's straight commission. They do have a uh what's what's it called? A um >> draw. >> A draw. Yes, sir. They do have a draw.

Um it's based off of work orders that you get signed. For every work order, it's $500. Mhm.

>> But getting a work order signed is >> similar to getting a roof bought.

>> Yes, sir. And people look at that as a contract. It's hard to get by, but not impossible. >> What were you doing before that? What were you doing four months ago? >> Before Before that, I was a car salesman, a Toyota.

>> And you're you think you're going to make more with this than that?

Obviously, or you wouldn't have done it.

>> Yeah. Yes, sir. Absolutely.

>> All right. Okay. All right. Um, you said

you're 27.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Good. Good. All right. So, your

first rule of thumb is take care of your

household first.

Okay. And that means buy food, not

eating out. Food for the refrigerator and food for cooking. And that means take care of utilities, lights and water, heat, gasoline for your car.

Okay. Uh that means pay your rent or your mortgage. How much is your rent?

>> 850 a month. >> Okay. You pay your rent. You don't get behind on your rent and you don't get behind on your food. You start with those things. You follow me?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And um that we call that building

the four walls of your house. Once you've got survival, which is food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. Once you've got survival done, then we start working on clearing out the debt.

But not until you've eaten and kept the lights on.

>> Okay. >> And when you sit down and do a written budget before the month begins, do you

know what you're going to get in December yet?

>> No, sir. I do not. Okay. All right. And

>> at minimum, I would pay $3,000.

Made that. >> All right. So, why don't why don't we sit down when you get off the phone, I'm going to hook you up with the Every Dollar app, the uh expanded version that we're going to pay for it. We're going to give it to you free, okay?

>> And get you started. I want you to sit down tonight and I want you to put $3,000 into that app. So, you got $3,000

coming in. What are you going to do with it? We're going to be very intentional.

And I just told you food, lights, and water, rent. We know we can do those.

You got enough to do all that, right? So now we don't have to worry about being homeless or hungry.

>> And that sets your brain free to start working on, okay, now the rest of it's a stinking monopoly game.

Okay. Once you know you're survived, so we get survival behind us and now we can go play the Monopoly game. And then I want you to list your debts, smallest to largest, and any extra money you pay minimum payments on all of those. And if you have money after you paid minimum payments and covered your necessities, then you attack that smallest debt and pay it off as fast as you can.

So, like, let's say February, you have a huge $5,000 month.

And we're going to walk with you and show you how to do it. Okay? I've been right where you are. I've been scared and confused. The bad news is you got some debt. The good news is you're not afraid of hard work and you know how to make money. And the good news is you're ready to learn. And the good news is your debt's not that bad. You can actually tear it apart. But I want you to get pissed off and attack it like your life depends on it.

>> Yes, sir. >> And when you do that, you get wired up and fired up, man. You stick the stinking ball into the end zone. And if somebody's in your way, you run over them. >> You understand what I'm saying?

>> Yes, sir. 100%. >> That's it. And so you can do all this

and we'll help you in the whole process.

>> And you're are you doing door-todoor sales, you know, 8 to 5? Like when the sun goes down, are you done?

>> Um, as of right now, yes, sir. I did just today put in an application. I'm looking to pick up a second job. Um, it's a warehouse job from 7 at night until finished, but I'm assuming about 12:00 p.m. or 1 or 12 a.m.

>> That's a you know Yeah. like a UPS or a FedEx job during Christmas here. You can make some stinking money doing that.

>> And and and if you've got a place to stack that and you know where it's going, it makes that hard work easier.

Hard work that you don't know where it's going is a pain in the butt.

>> Absolutely. >> But when you know, hey, that I work that hour, I knock that bill out. I work that hour, I knock that next bill out. I'm going to get my freaking life back, man.

I'm tired of living like this. When you get that thing going, that's when everything changes for you. >> And one year of that, man, you'll be celebrating your 29th birthday.

>> Debtree, if you do it this way, >> I think you can. Cuz I think your sales are going to go up. Cuz here's the thing. A salesperson who knows where the money's going to go from the sale is an

excited salesperson. A salesperson who's scared and desperate and is afraid they're not going to eat, they smell bad.

And a consumer can smell it a mile away.

It's hard to make a sale. But when you're on fire, they want some of what you're burning with, man. And that changes everything. So just your attitude of attack on this will affect what happens on your sales.

So I really do predict February may be the best month of your entire life. I think that's a very strong possibility if you're doing all these other things as a part of this program because now you got a reason for doing it. You pick it up and put it down. You're picking it up and putting it down, man.

>> And that personalized plan and every dollar, Michael, it's going to change everything. It's going to coach you just like we're doing right here, but 247 in your pocket.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely, dude. And you're a great guy, man. Take care of your little brother. Look at you, man. What a stud. Go get him, brother. We'll help you. If you need some more help, you call us back anytime. Hold on. Christian's going to pick up. We'll get you signed up.

>> [music]

>> Finally, mortgage rates have dropped.

And you know what that means? People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So, if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window. But you've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsay way.

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[music]

[music] It's that time of year. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing a special giving edition of the Ramsey Show. And we want to hear some giving stories [music] from you about how you've given generously this season or maybe a story where you've received something. But this is a show about generosity to inspire generosity. This particular show

is one of the most popular ones we do of the year. So we need some great generosity stories. Whether you were on the receiving end or the giving end, go to ramseyolutions.com/ask.p put giving in the subject line. This

show on uh giving is a Christmas time tradition. It comes up December the 18th. So go ahead and send in your stuff now and we'll make you a part of the show. Jeff is with us in Chicago. Hi Jeff. Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Well, I've got a a good news, bad news scenario. I have a 21-year-old son who's a college junior and the good news is he's started to invest for the long term about 6 n months ago. Start putting a

little bit aside, has a portfolio, diversified long-term portfolio. That's the good news. The bad news is he is also actively engaged in sports gambling

like so many of his friends. Maybe all of his 21-year-old college friends have sports gambling apps and and they take that frequently, definitely every week, sometimes every day. And my point with

him is that if you're going to be involved in that kind of a risky speculative gambling uh you know app

thing every day that instead take that

energy and apply it to learn more about short-term trading like futures and options. I trade futures. I trade options. It's a it's a skill. It's an art. It's something that's always challenging. But I've learned more about finance and probabilities as a result of it. not always a winner. But my point to him is gambling on sports is gambling by

every definition. It's good that you have a long-term portfolio, but as long as you're going to be you're open to the risk of loss that you should be applying it to financial instruments and learning more about them instead of sports gambling. And [snorts] the reason I can't communicate that is that the proper the the current conventional wisdom everywhere like he's been reading Scott Galloway's book about long-term investing is that you just buy things and hold them forever and that that's the right thing to do and the only thing to do and that's the that's the point where we're in disagreement.

my question is how do I convince him that he shouldn't be gambling on sports and if he's willing to risk money in that manner? >> I follow your logic. I follow your logic, but it's like >> um we're choosing between two things he shouldn't be doing.

>> A college student shouldn't be playing short-term trading and a college student shouldn't be sports gambling, period. I

I so I don't really want to I don't want him to take that energy and do anything with it except something completely that's good for him. Neither one of those things are something I want to train him to do long term. So I I follow

your logic. I get how you got there cuz you're playing in it and that's okay. Um

uh you know if that's what you choose to do. Um, but I would any college student or any, you know, someone in their 20s that called me and said, you know, I'm I'm uh sports betting, I would never tell them instead do short-term trading.

I I would just say do neither. And so I'm going to fall more on the Galloway side of things, I guess, in your mind than uh than you are. But um uh I I

think I would just for for for a second, let's set the short-term trading decision or discussion aside and say,

"Hey, the fastest growing addiction that

is destroying young men in their 20s in

America, faster than anything I've ever seen in 30 years of doing this, is online sports gambling." >> Yes. >> FanDuel is a portal to hell.

Draft kings ain't king of nothing except their own pocketbook and they're screwing an entire generation of young men because you don't win.

That's why they can afford to buy ads on every stinking every I mean they're back

to back to back to backtoback ads every time you turn on a sporting event.

It's all I see is their crap. And no

wonder they they're spending billions of dollars. You know where they're getting that? It's out of your kids' freaking pocket cuz they're screwing an entire generation. This is evil stuff right here. And so I'd be talking to him like this is cocaine.

Not like it's an alternative high-risisk investment. No, this is cocaine. You are

screwing around with cocaine. You're screwing around with fentanyl. You're screwing around with crack. And it's going to kill your little butt. You need to get away from this stuff. And if your friends are all so stupid, they're doing it. Well, if all your friends jump off a cliff or you're going to jump off a cliff, that's the famous dadline, right?

So, I'm just going to drop that one. So, I anything I can do to get a young person or an old person to stay away from online sports gambling, it is the most addictive freaking thing I've ever seen. The number of people coming into our financial counselors around America, sitting down with Ramsey counselors, that their entire lives have been destroyed by this bull crap is unbelievable.

It's the fastest growing addiction in America. Faster than cocaine, faster than drugs of any kind, faster even than

porn. And porn is a really high huge

problem as well with this age group and with any age group, but this age group in particular. They're getting destroyed by their online access to this absolute bull crap. And George, you've got some actual numbers on this. >> Yeah.

Well, I covered it in my book, Breaking Free from Broke, cuz I saw it. It's under the investing traps chapter because I saw it as people trying to shortcut their way to make a little bit of money and enjoy the entertainment at the same time which really worried me to take the addictive nature of gambling, the ease of mobile apps, the bookies that stack the odds against you with this socially acceptable form of entertainment, quote unquote. And so this is really scary to what it's doing to young men. And I don't know that that this dad has the authority in the kid's life to tell him to delete the app.

So, what it takes is truthfully and sadly, he might need to lose a bunch of money and get burned before he actually turns a corner or he needs to find new friends. >> I'm seeing him lose marriages. I'm seeing him lose jobs. I'm seeing him bankrupted.

We're seeing just a sad sad sad stories

and nobody's talking about everybody's walking around grinning like betting on football is a wonderful thing. >> And it's a funny thing to joke about with your friends if you won money or lost money. >> Yeah. Well, and it's like a stinking golf or fishing story.

You lie. You know, you lose more than you win, but you tell only times you won. You know, I caught I caught a fish, but 17 times I didn't catch a fish. Shut up.

So, it's not cute and it's not funny and and there's no, you know, I'm Yeah. So, Jeff, I'm on your side. If I could figure out a way to get your son to quit doing it, um, I would.

you, it's he's creating

habit patterns, neuro pathways in his

brain that it may take him a decade to get out of. When your brain starts getting rewired to play this crap, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. This short-term feedback loop thing, and you get you get your brain wired to do that, it it is not conducive to building wealth. It is not conducive to building a high quality life.

>> Yeah. But what I would ask him is, hey, how much have you spent on these apps collectively? Make him add it up and then show him what it's actually costing him both in past and future tenses. That might convince him if he's into long-term investing, he might go, "You know what?

I could have turned that into 10 grand when I graduate college instead of being broke. Or I could just have some fun, quote unquote, and lose a bunch of money." Yeah, these guys have they have got the algorith you're at such a disadvantage when you open up one of those apps because they have spent a half a billion dollars building the visuals uh build building the feedback loops to where they know once you stick your toe in there >> and they lure you back in with another offer >> suck you in. >> Hey, here's a free bet on us.

Come back in.

>> So yeah, I'm I'm Can you tell I'm a little pissed off about it? Yeah, this is evil. Straight up evil. It's greed

and it's out of control. And if you work for FanDuel or you work for DraftKings and you don't like me, well, I'll get over that. >> Guessing they're not going to be knocking on your door to be a sponsor, Dave. >> Well, they have.

And we said, "You got funny." They even got >> Well, that just shows how stupid they are that they don't, you know, they don't they're just buying ads everywhere. Anybody, you know, like, "No, we're not putting that on. We're not going to have have anybody on here selling gold either." Good god, how stupid. >> If you're watching this on YouTube, it probably got interrupted with a FanDuel ad.

That's how aggressive they are.

>> It's exhausting. >> Bad news, boys and girls. Bad news.

Hope I wasn't unclear.

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, you know those too good to pass up holiday promos? Well, they can be great, but with every spin of the digital wheel, the newsletter sign up, the coupon code, you're giving away your data. You think that info just stays with the store? I doubt it.

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with code Ramsey at checkout. Do it today. That's joined me.com/ramsey.

Code Ramsey.

I'm officially a boomer. I'm officially

a walking dad joke. I do not understand

the vernacular.

It's Cyber Monday week.

That just sounds oxymoronic to me.

>> It's like birthday week. It's your birthday week. >> Yeah, but it doesn't last a week. It's a day. >> Well, we like to stretch things out. I can tell. So, we have Cyber Monday week and the deals are going big. We got

hardcover books, audio books, assessments with prices as low as $6.99,

which Ken Coleman said yesterday he's a little pissed off we're selling his book that cheap cuz he doesn't make much. That's good.

>> Ken, don't wait. These deals will end

because the week will be over.

[laughter] >> Sunday the 7th of December. Go to

ramseysolutions.com/store if you're watching on YouTube or click in the show notes. >> Don't miss out. You have a whole week to get this Cyber Monday deal. So don't miss out. [laughter] >> God almighty. Elizabeth in San Francisco. Hey Elizabeth, how are you?

>> Good. Good. Appreciate you taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? Um, so I'm relatively new to your program and since I've been introduced to it, uh, I I had a lot of appreciation because the burden of my loans has been heavy for a long time. So I'm excited to have a method to apply to them. Um, and what I have right now is

$300,000 in loans. There's four of them, mostly

student loan. However, the third largest

one um is a is not a student loan. It's

from a certain program that my employer has with a it's a no interest loan and

with a very specific payoff date for a down payment on a home. So my my approach up until you know being introduced to your program has been to put aside money every month for that.

And so when that date approaches which is four years from now uh I will have that money. And I was just curious >> how much So your employer loaned you money interest free with a balloon

payment for a down payment on a house.

>> Um, no balloon payment. So they hand they gave me $85,000 and they said you have to hand this back in 10 years.

>> That's a balloon payment.

>> Oh, okay. It I I misunderstood. I assumed it would have >> If it all if it all comes due at once, that's called a balloon payment. All right. So >> Oh, okay. And so you have three you have how many years left before you have to hand them $85,000?

>> Four >> four years. And how much do you have saved towards that?

>> Um my total savings account is 60,000.

Um but I I have 25,000 of that in a separate like I I just kind of put it in a bucket every you know every month I put some money in that bucket.

>> Okay. So you have 60 but 25 of it's here

marked just in the bucket. Okay.

>> Correct. Yeah. >> And and do you have any investments that are nonretirement in money?

>> No. >> Okay. >> Not non-retirement. >> So, this is all your money. And what do you make?

>> 370,000.

>> Good lord. That's excellent. Good for you. What do you do?

>> I'm a physician. >> Oh, okay. Good. All right. Okay. Um, how

long have you been making that kind of money?

>> Uh, about 10 years. And my my student

loan debt was 500,000. It's down to it's

it's it's it's ridiculous to even say it's down to, but it's down to 250,000.

>> Gotcha. Okay, cool. Okay, so 250 >> actually less now. Now, actually, sorry.

Yeah, it's about it's whatever 300US 85,000 is. >> So 215 215.

>> Yeah, 215 215.

>> Okay. All right. And so and you have 60

and 85 clears this mortgage problem.

>> Correct. Okay. Okay.

>> What's your smallest debt currently?

>> The 85. >> So, actually the 85 the um the actually I had So, the student loan is in they're in three different and actually it's broken up cuz you said it's the third largest is this. >> I actually had I Yeah, exactly. I actually had more student loan debt than I listened to a couple of your programs and moved more money from savings over and squashed the smallest ones. I'm about >> So, you're heading the right direction.

>> Yeah. [laughter] >> All right. So, well, let's just pretend this. Let's pretend that making $370,000

that you are 100% debtree in 24 to 36

months.

>> Yeah, it would be amazing. >> Well, it's only I mean that I don't know what it takes you to live, kiddo, but you should be able to do that. >> I I think what I again since learning your program, I'm going to stop a I'm going to stop my pause.

say retirement and that thing and then I'll be able to squash >> um e I'll be able to squash you know a good >> but if we put 150 if we put 150 out of

your 370 on debt >> times two years that would pay off 300

right >> right correct >> which means you only have $270,000 a year to live on [laughter] >> Gosh when you put it that way it really does sound like >> [laughter] >> Well, you >> I really want you to be I really want you to be done with this in two years. And we've got some money. We've even got a little more money we can throw at the thing. >> Okay.

So, you're you're you've been walking towards what we teach very steadily. And as you've learned more, you've gotten more comfortable.

$25,000 a month going towards debt.

>> Oh, wow. Okay. No, no. I'm sorry. Let me do I'm 125. 125.

>> 125. >> Yeah. >> 125 going towards debt because that that that's two years. In two years, you'd be done.

>> Okay. >> All right. And once I lay that out, >> um what we normally tell people, and you've been listening, so you already know this, is to have $1,000 in your savings, which would put 59 towards these debts. You've already done some of that, but you didn't quite get enough belief yet to go all the way.

It might take you a couple months to get to there because this is all a little fresh for you, a little new for you, and I'm okay with that.

start to see, you know, 15 10 to $15,000

a month going off these debts, you're not going to be as scared being without a big savings account.

>> Right. Right. And let me tell you something, that 85,000 because it's attached to your employer and it's attached to your home, even though it's interest free is hovering around in the back of your head like a hatchet. It's not stress free or risk- free.

>> Yeah. This is why I appreciate you so much. I feel like there's so few people would say that and I appreciate it because I feel it. >> Oh, you do feel it.

I would feel it.

So I can I can I can see how that because there's so many different variables that touch points in your life that are very important. House, job, career, all that that are tied to this one thing and and yet you know, oh it's interest free. I'll just, you know, no, no, no, no, no. Get rid of that thing.

So list your debts smallest to largest.

Start throwing 10 to $15,000 a month at them. And as soon as you get up the courage, take a whole bunch of that 60 and throw at them.

>> Okay. Yep. Okay. I'm excited. I never thought I'd say excited and debt in the same sentence. >> I'm excited. I'm excited because the debt is leaving. That's why I would say it in the same sentence. But yeah, >> we're excited for you cuz the math is very hopeful here. Your income is incredible. So, if you can stop living like a doctor for just like a year or two, you're going to be really living after that for the rest of your life.

>> You had no payments and you make 370 and you're used to living like this. Oh my gosh, girl. You'll be able to do anything you want to do. >> So, what type of practice are you in?

>> Emergency. Wow. Good for you.

>> I works for the money. [laughter] >> You do work for the money. That's serious serious trauma, stress, and everything else. Yeah.

>> Now, it's time to treat this debt like an emergency. >> Yeah. There you go. Hey, that >> Yep.

Yep. >> Listen, you're you're you're going to get this. You're going to knock it out. I'm proud of you.

And uh I'll I'll give you one last prediction, Elizabeth, and that is is that the more you get down into this and the more you see it is working, the more you're going to turn up the intensity. And so I think you're going to be done even faster than two years. >> I think the income's going to go up and her expenses are going to go down. >> Yeah.

I think I think she's just gonna say, "I I'm getting such a high off of paying off debt that I'm going to do I'm going to just crunch it and crunch it and punch it and punch it." >> And man, when you do that, it it just But you you can't feel that today until you feel it. So once you get in there, though, and it starts moving.

Oh my goodness, you're going to >> I remember I the first time I ran a half marathon, I remember turning the corner and there was a half mile to go out of the 13.2, but you could see the tape on

the finish line and I I just run 12

miles and yet I found somewhere down inside cuz you could see the end >> and I was able to sprint. your body just your body and your brain goble I was able to go you know kick it in for a half a mile but you could see it you could see the end and and then there's more in the tank than you than you believed you had

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>> [music]

[music] >> Solomon is in Montana. Hi Solomon. How are you?

>> I'm doing good Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? Awesome. Uh,

currently am at a crossroads in my life

where things can go a lot of different ways and I'm just looking for guidance on

what you would do in my situation.

>> Okay.

>> Yes. >> What's your situation?

>> So, I'm currently ending my football career. I spent eight years in college on scholarship.

uh seven at USC and then one over here

at the University of Montana and along that time I got my undergraduate degree and my master's degree and I got married and had two sons but I'm stuck on

deciding whether or not to stay here in Montana where I love it and we found a good church but I have a lot less connections out here compared to Utah where a lot of my family is and where I have a lot of connections and uh close to the church out there that we

were attending to for a little bit.

>> Okay.

Um are you in a metro area in Montana?

>> Yeah. So I'm in Missoula right now.

>> Okay. >> It's about like 100,000 people.

>> So it's a big enough what what are you wanting to do? What's your what's your career goal?

So, I'd like to make use of my education

and I have my undergraduate degree in business administration and my project or master's degree is in project management >> and I'd want to do something with that in construction and uh I've been trying to look for jobs in both Utah and Montana, but man, it's

hard to get a job out here, man, especially with no experience, you know.

[snorts] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Have you talked to anyone in those fields or even in the project management field?

>> Yeah, I've been uh networking a lot and

I have a strong connection to one of the biggest construction companies in Salt Lake >> through one of my uncles who's married in. >> But uh yeah, I mean I just Salt Lake.

It's it's a hub. It's huge.

mean and out here in Montana I it's uh

harder to make connections but the connections you do make are a lot stronger. So I've been trying to network out here but it seems a lot harder being

>> how are you making a living today sir

>> I know on scholarship they usually give you a monthly stipen and

>> you're breaking up on us. Yeah. I didn't get the last part. I heard stipen and then that's all we heard. Are you still there? >> Yeah, I'm still here. >> Okay. All right. >> So, normally we get a monthly stipen and

that's all I've been living off of the past eight years. >> Is your wife working outside the home?

>> No, she stay at home full-time. We have a 22-month-old and a six-month-old.

>> Wow. What's the stipend every month? How much are you guys living on?

>> About 1,500.

>> Oo. You're living off of 1,500 a month?

Yeah. Plus some uh EBT food stamps.

>> Okay. So, here's the thing. Um

you you obviously want to stay in Montana. You're all of your verbiage and your sentence structures are saying that. >> Um but you also know that it's probably not going to happen because you're probably not going to land a good job there with the uh limited connections and the smaller area. So, it may be that to start your career out after college, your first job after college, which is what we're talking about, that you end up in a major metro area like your Salt Lake gig.

You go take that for a few years and then you make connections across the construction industry.

some experience under your belt and you may or may not move back to Montana someday. and and but for now probably to

take advantage of the education that you've got and actually make a good living for your family. Um cuz we just

don't want EBT to be in your future, man. That's just silly. >> Yeah. I wouldn't stay on the poverty line because I like my church.

>> Yeah. Or because or because I like Montana. Either one. So, no. I think you go get a job right now as soon as

possible and take that. And um there's

nothing evil about either one of these things. If you can get a good job there in Montana, take it. But if you can't, take take Salt Lake City and get your get your butt in a car and go. And uh and you can, you know, you got the rest of your life to do stuff.

There's no rule that says you have to stay just cuz you went there. You can go over there and it's an adventure. And you know, we're going to give this two or three years. You say, just put a number on the calendar.

We're going to give it three years. We're go over here and work our tail off for three years.

and then I can decide where I want to live, and I can decide how maybe you want to open up your own thing someday.

I don't know. And you then you can start doing that. But for today, it's time to

for the sake of your family and your sanity and your pocketbook, it's time to go make some money as a result of this.

And that's not greed. It's you you've poured your whole life into football and into getting this advanced education.

Now, for God's sakes, go use it, you know, go do something with it and get the most out of it. Squeeze it. Squeeze it to where every drop of juice comes out of it. And uh and that's that's a good thing for you. It's a good start to life for you. So, yeah, I'm I'm take if

you can't you know, you got you got two weeks. You don't land something in Montana, I want you to land something in Salt Lake and be gone. You got two weeks. >> That might be an entry- levelvel project management job that's not in construction right now, but you need some experience in order to make that final move.

>> Yeah. >> And uh that's going to be you might have to swallow your pride a little bit and go, I have a master's project management. I deserve this. >> But you've never done anything yet.

Yeah. So, yeah.

That that's what I would do. Austin is in New Orleans. Hi, Austin. How are you?

>> I'm doing great today, guys. How about yourself? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Well, guys, I was hoping to uh get some strategy advice uh from you all on a debt payown. So, just to kind of give you a a 30,000 foot view, um my wife and

I currently have a net worth of approximately 650,000.

>> Um and we currently have debts of

198,000 which is spread across four rental property mortgages.

>> Okay. Your personal residence is paid for. >> Uh yes. So, we we're in the fortunate situation where uh we have a a home that's held in trust that we will inherit um whenever my parents pass away. >> And that's where you're living. >> That house is >> correct. And that house is free and clear. >> Okay. Cool. That's cool. All right. And what's your household income?

>> Uh approximately 165k gross.

>> Okay. So, the only debt you have are these are three rent are four rentals.

>> Uh correct. We So, we have four rentals.

One of them is paid for and then we have mortgages on the remaining three.

>> Okay. That's your only debt. 200 grand.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Cool.

All right. I guess you got two options, right? I mean, it's a baby step six affair. So, you need to be getting you

need to have 3 to six months set aside of expenses, be putting 15% of your income away towards retirement. And money that you find above that is baby step six. You begin to pay off real estate. It's usually the home we're talking about, but in this case, it's real estate. I'm going to list them smallest to largest and pay them off.

How quickly can you pay off 200,000 making 165?

>> Uh, I don't know. We haven't done the math on that yet. Um, but that does not that 165 does not include uh the rental

income that we're bringing in from them.

So, uh, currently we bring in 47.50 50 a

month in rent and then to cover our our

PITI for those properties we're looking at about 25 to 2600 a month. So we got

about >> time by the time you have vacancy and expenses you're not making any money.

Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We we end up clearing about 1,500 a month after we set aside money for maintenance capex etc.

>> Yeah. It's not it's Yeah. Still not you're not that's not moving the needle towards that's 18 grand a year you owe 200. That's not okay. So, I'm probably

looking at those four properties and going, "Which one do I like the least,

selling it and dumping all of its equity and getting rid of its debt if it if it's one of them that has debt um and dumping all of it to accelerate this cuz I would rather you have a program that you're going to get out of debt faster than you are with this program.

>> You don't have enough You don't have enough money to throw at 200 to get out of debt fast enough to suit me. I I would want to be out of debt in 3 to 5 years if I'm you. >> 50 grand a year, you're done in four years. And if you sell one, it's done even faster. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the plan. You got to be at that. That's a good point.

Yeah. 50 grand a year is for That's the way to do it. >> If you can't do that, I think selling one is a good move. >> Yeah. Agree. That's That's a perfect move.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Katherine

is in Reno. Hi, Katherine. How are you?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm great, thank you. >> Good. How can we help?

Well, my husband and I retired in 22 and

we were going to build our house from the ground up. The first year we lived in a trailer as we were putting in the well and bringing in electricity and laying the foundation. And it's now 3 and 1/2 years, almost 4 years later, and

we still can't get in the house because he's he's afraid to take money out of the 401k to uh to hire people to help him.

>> So, you're still in the trailer?

>> No, we are not still in the trailer. We were able to do that for one year and then my husband said, "No more. We're renting an apartment in Reno." >> Okay. And what's it going to cost to finish this project?

>> [sighs and gasps] >> I figure it's going to cost between 1 and 150 to finish the house.

>> How much is in your 401k?

>> Yeah. >> How much is in your 401k?

>> 700,000. >> Okay. And um how old are you guys?

>> He is 71. I am 69.

>> Yes, you should pull out 150 and finish it immediately.

>> Thank you. I just want to sit on my front porch and have coffee with him in the morning. It's time.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, this is this was a bad plan.

>> Yeah, it sounded good and we were >> It didn't It didn't sound good because you didn't have a plan to get the house done in a reasonable period of time.

>> It's not It It's It's hard on a house to not get finished.

>> Yeah. >> If it's not, you know, you got to get the thing in the dryer. It starts rotten down on you.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, you guys been drag button along for three years on this.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. that this was a bad plan from the start. And so, uh, but now we're the now we're where we are. For God's sakes, let's get it finished. It's it's a small percentage of your overall life and you're going to you're not losing the money. You're just investing it in real estate instead of 401k, >> right? >> Now, it's not going to create an income there where in the house, but it's also going to get rid of the rent.

>> Yes. Oh, yes. That's huge.

>> How have you guys been living so far? On what income?

>> Um, he has a pension and social security. >> And so you haven't even touched the 401k since you've been retired.

>> Yes, that's correct. >> Yeah. >> So if you continue down that path, even the money that's left in the 401k would double after about seven years.

>> Yeah, that would be awesome. >> You're 76 and you're sitting there with, you know, a million dollars if you leave 500 in there and it doubles.

>> Yeah, >> that's a pretty good life. >> I feel so much better now. Thank you guys. >> I hope he's convinced. That's the big question. Is he going to go along with this? >> Yeah, I I think he will. I think he's he's getting tired of it, too. So, it just, you know, it just took him getting tired of it all for me to, >> you know, want to ask. >> Yeah. Well, he had this um picture in

his mind of being able to build this house with his own hands and he didn't understand that how hard it was going to be and how long it was going to take.

>> That's very true. And now that So we're kind of giving up that little >> macho dream there.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And just finish it so mama's got a place to drink her coffee for God's sakes. >> He's tired. I ain't been doing this but about four or five minutes. I'm tired. >> Yeah. I'm half his age and I don't have the energy for this. So I'm impressed he even attempted it. >> Hillary's in Vermont. Hi Hillary. How are you?

>> Hi. I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Well, so I'm in the process of trying to

pay off student loans and between like

my federal loans, there's about like

there was 21 to start with.

>> How much? >> But now there >> are 21 loans.

>> Yeah. >> 21 loans. How much do you owe, Hillary?

>> 326,000.

>> Say that again.

>> 326.

326,000.

So, are you a doctor or a lawyer?

>> I'm a pharmacist. >> A pharmacist.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. So, you're making 120?

>> I make about 150.

>> Good. Okay. Are you single?

>> I am. I'm a single mom of two. Yeah.

>> How old are you?

>> I'm 31. >> Are you married? No. You said you're a single mom. You're not married. You told me that. Okay.

>> All right. Wow.

>> So, has the balance grown because of interest? What's what's going on here? You've just been making minimum payments.

>> So, I graduated in 2020 and I paid off

through that. I had like two separate loans. So, I had paid off my all my previous private loans which was 70,000

and then I have my federal ones which have been on forbearance and are still in the middle of forbearance. that I've been paying on them since well I've been paying on them since like the other one got paid off >> but now the interest and I tried to pay off as much as I could before the interest started but now the interest is starting and I can't seem to figure paying off >> okay so let let's pretend that you lived on a h 100,000 and you put 50,000 towards this

>> you've not been doing anywhere near that >> foot >> what >> this past year I put like this past year I was trying to put towards my retirement and like plan for my retirement because I don't want to like >> Well, that's a competing goal.

>> You either want to get get out of debt or invest. It's you can't do both at once and make progress.

>> Yeah. So, if you stop retirement and you

stop everything and you live on beans and rice and you attack these student loans like your life depended on it,

could you put a hundred towards them?

Um, probably not a hundred with like my kids are seven and three, so I have daycare. But once like they're no longer in like full-time day, my little isn't in full-time daycare, then I can. So like I could definitely put like at least the 23,000 plus other amount that

I've been. So I could probably put around 40 to >> maybe 50,000. >> Yeah, I want you to Okay, let's go. Let's get it to 75, which is a four-year plan.

So within that though, I was trying to pay off, like I mentioned, they're they're separated between 21 different loans. >> Yeah. You list them smallest to largest.

List them smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. But I want you putting $75,000 a year towards debt.

And if you're putting 75,000 towards debt, >> nothing towards retirement.

>> Nothing towards retirement. You're broke.

You have got to do something different.

You've got to attack these student loans to get rid of them. They're not a pet and they're an ugly zoo animal.

>> Yeah. >> You got I mean, you got completely screwed on your education. You paid like

five times more than you should have to become a pharmacist.

>> Mhm. >> You know that, right? >> Yeah. I'm not sure I'm not sure why it ended up being so much, but yes, I I know. >> Yeah. I'm not sure either because it shouldn't have been anywhere near, you know, $400 and something thousand dollars to become a freaking pharmacist.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. All right. Now, anyway, we're where we are.

If you do 75* 4, that's 300,

>> four years. So, 100% >> debtree. The goal here is to make more payments than the interest is acrewing.

So, the balance goes down. That's the goal. And right now, you haven't been putting enough toward it in order to make that happen. So, we're telling you, pause investing, pause everything, throw all of your energy towards that smallest debt so that you can begin to make traction. $75,000

a year, $6,000

a month plus $6,500 a month. Okay? And that that

lay out your budget to do that. Hold on. and we'll get you signed up on every dollar and it'll help you walk through this. But you're going to have to tighten the screws down and knock it out. Otherwise, this is going to just keep stay in a death cycle on you.

[music]

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Not in all states. Our question of the day today comes in by voicemail. So, Kelly, give it a play. Hi, I have a question about jumping into investing at this time when stocks are trading so high. I have about $100,000 that I'm looking to invest, but I'm wondering if everything is so high, if this is a bad time to jump in. Am I just going to lose

money? I'm a little bit paralyzed with regard to what to do with this money. It is all I have. I have no debt. I don't have a ton of property or anything. So, this is my retirement savings at 65.

Thank you. >> Wow. Okay. Well, it's a good question.

Thank you for calling in with that. Um, we would tell you to sit down with a good Ramsay Smart Vtor Pro, someone that

we recommend in the investing world, and have a good talk with them and start to understand your options. But I can pan back a little bit and we can talk about the question in general. All right. Um,

in general, is it a good time to invest because the market's high? That's Sue's question, right? And so if you take

$100,000 and you're afraid to put it in now because the market's high, you could lose money. That assume that makes the

what you're saying is if if you really believe that, what you're saying is is that the stock market is never going to go up past where it is.

And there's absolutely no data to indicate that. data that indicates that the stock market has always gone up past

where it is. Like always,

sometimes it dips down, but then it goes back up past where it was.

100% of the time it has done that so far. Okay? We've had some dips, but it

always has returned and gone past where

it was before.

And so the only way that your fear comes true is if it goes down and stays down, which is the first time it would have ever happened in history.

And what you're saying then is is that the best and brightest companies in America that are publicly traded, names like Home Depot or Dell or Apple or McDonald's or Coca-Cola,

names like that are not going to make more money in the next few years.

They're going to make less money than they've ever made in history as a group.

See, this is very unlikely. So, I am 65.

If I had an $100,000 extra to put into

something right now, I would not hesitate to put it all in the stock market in good growth stock mutual funds that have long track records today.

I'd do it by nightfall and I wouldn't even blink. Wouldn't bother me a bit even if it was my last 100,000. Now, I'm

not saying Sue, you should do that because you have some fears and those fears need to the way those fears go away is with a little bit of basic history and knowledge of the stock market. That's why you need to meet with a good adviser. >> Yeah, there's a few questions here. Number one, should I invest when the stock market's high? Yes. Can you retire off of $100,000? I don't think so. And

so, I hope you have other income outside of that. Uh, but if you just pull up Google S&P 500 10-year, you'll see it go

up and to the right and you'll see some scary dips. But if you go back to, you know, 2022, you'll see an all-time high of $4,700. Well, right now it's trading at over $6,800.

>> 6,800 points.

>> Yeah. 1,600 points. And so what you'll see is there was an all-time high every few years. And so you you're actually buying it on sale today because if you look at 2029, it's probably going to be trading higher than it is in 2025.

>> Yeah. >> So that'll give you some hope if you pan back like Dave's talking about and get that perspective. And a Smart Investor Pro can help with that. >> Yeah. You can look at it and see the see how the market moves. The S&P 500 is an

index that is the top 500 stocks on the

stock market and that basically is the stock the New York Stock Exchange. Okay.

And so it basically is the stock market and so if you follow that you can tell what the stock market has done. The news often reports the Dow Jones Industrial Average which is also an index but it's just a handful of 30 or 35 stocks. It's not got anything. This has got 500 the 500 largest companies.

So it is it is the baseline of what we call the stock market the S&P 500. So if you look at that and you can say okay what's is the stock market trading? Is it is it is it a bubble? Is it an illusion?

there has been a dip that someone calls a bubble or something, the market has returned. Because what we're saying here, it's not some this is not a fairy tale. It's not some kind of guy behind

the curtain like the Wizard of Oz or something, right? This is actual companies. Home Depot.

Does Home Depot make money?

McDonald's, do they make money? Do they make a profit? Dell computers, Apple

computers, do they make a profit? And that's the stock you're investing in. A stock is a share of ownership. So, if you're one of the owners of a company that's making a profit, your ownership share goes up in value.

That's a share of stock. It goes up in value. And so when you're buying a mutual fund, it's got 90 to 200 Home Depot, Dell, and Apples in it. Exxon, is

Exxon making a profit? You stinking better believe it? [laughter] You haven't filled up your car lately, have you? So, I mean, you bet these people are making a profit. You can bet some of Are some of them losing money? Yeah, a couple of them are. But the biggest these companies as a group represent the, you know, a a big chunk of the American economy. And so in general, are these companies going up to

in value because they're making a profit and growing? And in general, yes. And in

general, they always have. As a matter of fact, for 70 80 years, the S&P 500

has averaged about 11.8% rate of return per year. That's the average, which also means some years it was less, some years it was more. That's

where we get averages from. Y'all remember the sixth grade, right? And that's where we learned how to average out something. And so that's you you can

pull these things up, look at on the internet real quick, but sit down with someone that can walk you through and you get comfortable. You don't do it because a couple of dudes on a podcast said do it. You sit down and you use

your brain to understand something you never understood before and then you go, "Wow, okay. So George, here's an interesting thing. I never understood this, but there's something maybe psychological about it. I don't know.

Um, the stock market feels far away

sophisticated and I can't uh get my emotions around the

technicalities of it to feel whether

it's going to go up or not.

But you buy a home and you have absolutely zero [snorts]

uh guarantee that it's going to go up in value. And people don't think a heartbeat.

They don't even think a they don't sit and go, I don't know if I bought if I bought a $400,000 home, would it go up in value? People don't think that. That

does not even enter people's minds. They go, "Of course it's going to go up in value because that $400,000 house, I remember 20 minutes ago it was 300,000 and I remember 45 minutes ago it was h 100,000." You know, and and so I remember it. But I guess because we walk around in the midst of the brick and mortar and we watch this, you know, if

you're if you're like 30 years old, you as an you've had 10 years as an adult watching real estate go up. If you're 65

years old, for God's sakes, you have dinosaurs in your backyard, you know.

So, you know, you you've been watching real estate go up. And so, you have this

historical data just kind of stored in your head, although you don't have the actual math, but you feel very safe.

>> Yeah. >> With real estate, >> it's physical. You can see it and touch it. And the stock market is just charts, graphs. >> It's like, woo, [snorts] >> it's it's green and red on the news.

That's all I know. >> Yeah. >> Talking heads are saying it went up. Talking heads are saying it went down.

And so, it doesn't feel as real. And I don't feel as connected to the stock market like I do my own home. Yeah.

>> As it should be, but I still invest in the stock market. >> The interesting thing is they're both you're buying both based on historical data. Has it gone up in value in history? Am I going to lose my butt based on what it did in history? You're buying both of them based on the data.

But people are just so much more comfortable with a home. And I'm glad I'm glad they're buying homes.

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[music]

in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. On the

debtree stage, Mason and Katie are with

us. Hey guys, how are you? We are hype

hype level 100. >> I love it. Welcome. Good to have you.

Where do you guys live? >> Uh Parker, Colorado. It's about 30 minutes south of Denver. >> Got it. Cool. Well, welcome to Nashville. >> Thank you. >> Good to have you. And here to do a debtree scream. I love it. How much have

you guys paid off? >> Uh it's uh $5.5 million in the last three years. [laughter] >> Oh my god.

>> That might be a record for me personally from what I've heard. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Okay. There's a story here. So what is your range of income pretale during that time? >> Yeah. Well, before I I I'll answer that.

I want to thank you. This is a bigger deal than we can ever express. I'm actually almost in tears. Oh god.

[laughter] Um uh 20 years ago, I didn't

expect to cry. That's crazy. Uh 20 years ago, I I was introduced to you. I had a a buddy. He was getting married and the FPU was at our church and we were stuck in the proverbial 3-hour ski traffic coming home and he popped in the CDs and

I'm like, "Live on less than you make." and save and pay off debt. This guy's a freaking genius. And uh so I I started uh just inundating myself with it for two to three months. I was single at the time. And uh God just absolutely gripped

my heart. I've since become a financial adviser. And and the long story short is because of everything that you guys have done for years. And I met my now wife uh three years after that. I've been a financial adviser ever since. I was an ELP uh for almost 5 years in the Denver area. So uh this is more than just a moment to us. We've been leading it at our churches for 15 16 years after you.

We got four baby girls. Um and so I mean I'm I'm hyper emotional. We're hyper emotional. But >> the deepest of thank yous.

You literally change a trajectory of my life which then turned into our lives, our girls' lives, our our faith community, everybody. Uh our team. We got team 10 people that work at our company now. I mean it's >> it's rippling because of what God did through you.

So that's why I'm choked up and and that's why we're super hypeing [laughter] >> trying to tamper it down, but I'm over the moon.

>> So that's wild. Thank you very much. And can thank you for leading the class all those years and all the people you've helped. That's absolutely incredible. So what it was $5.5 million.

>> Yeah. So um the other long story short

is I when we got married came back with $63 in our bank account uh from our honeymoon. So we were broke as a joke. I was working two and three jobs and I started uh the path of I gave myself one year to be a financial adviser. Um she was working her full-time job making 40 45 at the time.

Uh we finished paying off our debts when you I think it was the Fox Business Show. So 15 something years ago we were on there um consumer debt our consumer debt. Yeah.

>> Never had consumer debt since then and buying a house and then another house and then our third house. So um the the

everything grew over that time just above and beyond anything I could have ever imagined with what God did in our business. We're the soul owners. But then in the last 3 years uh the business revenue uh has been between 2 and a half and $4.5 million. And um at any given

time it's 15 to 25% of that is going to staff and >> rent and all the things. Uh and then we always had our mortgage uh at about that that total number is about half and half with our mortgage. And then uh uh the other half is were uh two retiring adviserss sold their book uh to me.

>> Oh, okay. >> So it's not consumer debt. We didn't go take out more debt. Uh and so it's kind of like working for free. So that was on a 5-year note. We paid it off two weeks ago in 3 years. The house we put on a 10-year. We paid it off two weeks ago in three years. So um that's the long story short. [laughter] >> So what's the house worth?

>> Uh about 4 million now.

>> I love it. >> Congratulations, you guys. I'm so proud of y'all. You have absolutely killed it.

>> Very cool. Okay, tell me about the sweatshirt. I like it. God over money.

>> That's right. I wear these types of things all the time. It's a a Christian group. It's just one of their mottos. Uh God over money. And so I'm always wearing uh stuff like this. It felt fitting for uh uh uh what our lives are all about and and the faith principles and what the Bible teaches. So >> felt right. That's why I'm wearing it.

>> Yeah, it fits in around here. You're right. You're right. No question about And to find a financial adviser who decided to pay off his mortgage, that's rare in its own right. It is shocking.

>> And then wears a sweatshirt saying got over money. That's good. That's [laughter] good. >> That's beautiful. >> These are two good things right here. So, excellent job.

>> So, now the books of business are clear.

The house is clear. All these years you've been teaching this, did it feel different than you thought it was going to?

>> Uh, yes and no. Because I've had so many clients that have paid it off and I've kind of like lived vicariously through that. And I've I've listened to this show, you know, we countless times led the class. Uh but also when it hits like uh today >> Yeah.

But when it happened to you, >> today's our first day that we were supposed to have our mortgage payment zapped today and so it's also fitting that we're here cuz it didn't get zapped out today. So it's going to sink in this month and next month and and so yeah, it's somewhat as expected and it's also sinking in as we speak because I'm like, wait, it's it's not coming out of our account today. I will say I thought that when we went to the bank and we we were all excited and we had our big check and we thought they were going to maybe have confetti cannons and throw us a party, but it's pretty somber.

So [laughter] the bank is not happy that you're not going into debt. You got to bring your own soundtrack and confetti.

Yeah. >> Oh, that's incredible. Well, this is a mess in their parking lot. >> That's right. You guys get it. You know, this is good. This is good. The bank didn't get it. >> No, they're not going to get it though.

>> So, what's next for you guys? You're still so young. You got your whole life ahead of you. What do you do now?

>> Outrageous giving even more than we've been doing. Uh, baby step seven to the fullest. And, you know, uh, it's I mean, that's that's the short answer. It's that simple. And, and just, uh, we we teach and, you know, we basically Dave Ramsey people's lives as, uh, we kind of jokingly say, uh, professionally. So, it's going to keep serving and and pouring in like we've always done.

>> Yeah. And I just, I have just have to say to God be all the glory. And you guys are so amazing. And ultimately, you're just teaching biblical principles.

So, our goal as a couple is to um just try to model that and encourage the people that we know to do the same and to experience that kind of freedom um that you guys have. It just it seated into our lives. I only went to Financial Peace University when we were dating to impress him. I didn't really care.

[laughter] But now, I'm so I'm just eternally grateful for the trajectory that it set us on. And we actually debated um doing this because we didn't want it to seem I don't know showy or anything like that. But then we ultimately were like this is about inspiring other people to just get rid of the chains you know and experience to experience freedom.

>> Amen. Well done. Well done. So, tell me

you're going to do something fun.

>> I mean, this is this is the start. This is the surprise. I mean I mean [laughter] I mean something fun. What are y'all doing? Oh, man. We We We love trips and and quality time with our family. So, we'll do more. >> So, we'll do we'll do a good trip.

>> Yeah, we'll do a good trip. This is the trip. This, all joking aside, this is our moment, but we'll keep doing you

know, but we love doing uh uh trips with others [snorts] and and blessing them to get some uh investing in memories. Uh, and so >> maybe get myself a hot pink car. That might be [laughter] my fun thing.

>> We got We got four girls. We got four girls. We got a lot of hot pink. That's our thing. [laughter] >> That's How old are the girls?

>> They're 9, 11, 13, and 15.

>> Wow. They're old enough where this is a memory for them. Watching mom and dad sacrifice and hustle to give them the most incredible life. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah, >> I just have to give him a little shout out too that in those early days when this change was made, this was um side

gig after side gig, umpiring Etsy jobs,

anything we can do, eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for years in order to establish getting to that point where we could just snowball to this point now where we can actually pay off our mortgage. So, um, I just he he just

worked so hard and has run his business through your entra leadership principles and the culture has formed within that and God's just been so good and blessed that and I know it's just because it's been so honoring of of God throughout the whole process. So, >> yeah, >> that's sweet. That's very good. It's uh >> faith and tenacity and character. It's all woven in there and it's why you guys are here. >> You guys are rock stars, man. You're very cool. >> I'm so grateful. What a great What a great visity.

You You built an amazing thing each and every person in here. This is special.

It's literally life-changing. Changed our lives in every sense of the word.

God is good. Uh thank you guys. Uh thank you Dave for day one. We appreciate it.

>> You're You guys are amazing. I'm so proud of you. [laughter] >> Thank you. >> Mason and Katie, DENVER, COLORADO. 5 A.5

MILLION PAID OFF IN three years. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, ONE. [screaming]

[cheering] >> I'm scared of that guy. >> I'm thinking he might be the best financial planner I've ever seen.

[laughter] >> I might hire him out.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Spencer's in Idaho. Hey Spencer, how are you?

>> Good. Thanks Dave for taking my call today. >> Sure. What's up?

Yeah. So, I'm 22 years old. Um, I'm

close to my associates degree in business management and I've been working for an excavation company for 2 years. Um, earlier this spring, my boss

offered to sell me his company for $750,000.

Um, it's got about $1.5 million worth of

equipment and we do right around $2 million of revenue a year. Um, I'm

calling to ask if this is a good financial decision at a young age like me or if I'm in too much over my head.

>> What is your position with the company?

>> Um, so I'm right now I'm just an operator. Um, that's what I've done for the last couple years. I'm new to the industry, so I've just been learning as much as I can. Um, I have kind of become

uh more of a lead, like a crew lead or manager >> over the last 6 months, but that's where I've been. >> Did he approach you specifically with this deal?

>> Uh, yes. So, one of my co-workers um was the one that initially brought it up and then he likes the idea. Uh, he's 74 years old and so he's looking to get out of the business and I was interested in getting in. So that's kind of how the conversation started. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, the

analysis is this. You've never run a business.

>> And now And now we're talking about running a business that has $2 million gross revenue.

>> Mhm. >> And you've never run you've never even been in operations. The only thing you've operated as a bulldozer.

And so >> so that that's the downside, right? I mean, you don't know what you're doing.

Um, >> yes, that's true. >> And so it's not because of your age. If you were 52 and you had never run a

business, you've never run a business.

And running a business is a series of skills like any like running a dozer is a series of skills. It's just different ones. So it's not that you can't learn it. Uh, but that's your big leap right

there. And I'm I'm a little bit not understanding why he's selling a business that has a top line of 2 million but has book value of $1.5

million worth of equipment for only 750,000. So you could sell off half the equipment and be clear the first year, right?

>> Yeah, that's true. Um equipment is

>> Why doesn't he just sell off the equipment and make twice the money?

Um, I feel like a lot of it's because the equipment's really old and >> Well, if is it worth a million and a half or not?

>> Yeah, it is. Yeah. >> It has anything to do with how old it is. If you if you bought the business and turn around, sold off the equipment.

Let's just play pretend for a second.

Okay, here's how dumb this is. You buy it for $750,000.

A month later, you sell off the equipment for a million and a half

and close the business and put $700,000 in your pocket.

>> That's weird.

>> Okay, >> that that's You see what I'm saying?

That that that doesn't ring that doesn't [clears throat] ring. >> Something is off about this. >> There's something wrong. >> Why How did he get to this valuation of 750? Was it just a wet finger in the air?

Well, we only do I mean we're only working nine or 10 months out of the year. Um we're the profit margins are pretty low.

They're seven or eight% and he is financing it through himself to me. And

so he feels like to be able to pay the bills and make that payment that's that's where it needs to be to make it work.

Okay.

Um, yeah, this is this Well, okay. Um,

so what kind of you're making a seven or eight% margin, so you're making like $150,000 a year off of 2 million.

>> Corre correct? >> Profit. Profit.

>> Yes. Yes. >> Net taxable income.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Based on that, it's not worth 750.

Okay, >> it's worth 400, 3 to 400. >> Okay, >> but the other problem is there's another way to value a business and that's book value, which is if you close it and sell off all the assets, what would you get?

And in this case, you'd get a million and a half. So,

um, you know, if you didn't have if you didn't have the high book value, then this thing would be worth nowhere near what he's asking based on its profitability. So, he's correct in that he's trying to set you up to where you can at least stay open uh and pay him the 750. But, uh

[sighs] how many pieces of equipment?

Oh, um he's got six excavators, four

loaders, grater,

um bunch of attachments for it. Um, then

he's got semiis. He's got a transportation side with trailers. He's got a lot of a lot of equipment, but there is no land. This 1.5 million is just an >> I got that. I got that. Okay. So, I'm I'm just trying to think. Gosh, if I were advising him, I would advise him to close the business and sell the stuff.

He'll make twice as much.

>> Okay. If I'm advising you,

I don't um well, number one, I got a

real concern that you've never operated a business and that you know, you might

not make any money because you don't know the operations side of getting the clients, getting the contracts signed, running the payables, run the payroll, that you know, doing the marketing. There's there's a lot of things to operating a business. And um I I would love for you to have been mentored as his >> vice president of operations for two years before you called me and asked this and then it would have been an easier answer. You see what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. Yeah. He does want to mentor me for a couple of years, but he's wanting out pretty soon. >> Yeah. It's kind of like tossing a kids tossing a 13-year-old uh or or or tossing me. I've never operated a bulldozer. You toss me the keys the bulldozer and go, "Hey, have fun.

I got a feeling I'm going to knock the neighbor's house down. Okay. So, because I don't know what the flip I'm doing with with no instruction, but if he's going to come alongside you and instruct you for two years, then that helps a bunch. >> And then you said he's doing the financing to you as some seller financing deal.

>> So, how would how would that work out?

>> So, he wants to finance it over 10 years and I'll basically pay him $75,000 a

year and he wants it in quarterly payments. Yeah,

but he you could sell off two or three pieces of equipment and pay him off almost immediately.

>> Yeah, that's correct.

>> If that was the plan and you got two years of mentoring on operations and your plan is not to pay him off over 10 years, it's to pay him off over 10 months because you're going to liquidate enough equipment to pay him off, then I would be okay. you're going to have a debt-free business with $750,000 worth of equipment that you know how to operate and um

you overpaid for it, but you didn't

overpay for it because you got assets with it. So, it's a weird calculation.

You following all this girration I'm doing? >> Yeah, I follow you. >> Okay. And uh hang on. I'm going to have Christian hook you up with one of our Entre Leadership coaches and give you a little bit more assistance than just uh a podcast radio show answer and let one

of our we've got we coach 10,000 small businesses. So, one of those coaches could actually help you walk through some of this. But I think if you know how to operate it and it's debtree,

I don't care if you're 22. You're sharp talking to you.

good these margins are too low everybody I know in that business makes money.

It's a It's a money maker if it's

operated right. And I think he's just kind of let things go cuz he's tired.

So, I got a feeling you can get your margins up 10 15%. And start making some

serious bank on this. You could make more money with less equipment and no debt later on. That's where it could be your future. Interesting. Interesting cost. What a riddle that was. >> Yeah. Really?

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Hey, the

phone number here is8825-55225.

Virginia is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Virginia. How are you?

>> I'm good. Hi Dave. Hi George. How are you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome. Thank you so much for having me on. So um my husband and I are currently working through the baby steps. We are on step two. Um we have about $118,249

in debt that we have to work through. Um we had a lot of stupid tax in our 20s.

Um, basically we grew up u me specifically I grew up um very poor without anything. My birthother um relied on a lot of government agency assistance and uh we barely had food um

to make it through. So right now while we're working through the baby steps, I'm having a really hard time letting go of the whatif moments. Um, so whenever we do have the margin um during that month to pay off a good chunk of debt, it's just getting really hard for me to not um put it towards the debt and just keep it in savings. So my question is like how do I work through that like fight or flight mode that I've been in my entire life without um like I just want to build generational wealth for my two for our two kids.

>> I I really appreciate you. You're amazing. That's a great your self-awareness and your the the forming of your question is just excellent. Just very well done.

>> Very well done. So, um >> what do you do for a living?

>> Um so I actually work from home. Um I'm a retail support operations specialist and my husband is a diesel mechanic.

>> What's your household income?

>> Um so household we make after tax about

uh $112,710

each year. Okay. So, he's doing really well as a diesel mechanic then, and he should be.

That's a great field.

>> Okay. Um, and your degree is in what?

>> Um, we actually both dropped out of college. We, um, my we both have associates. Um, he has an associate business and I have an associate of art.

So, we're actually >> just have an associates. >> Okay. All right. So, um, I'm going to

send you a copy of, uh, Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. And she talks a lot about uh in that book the

things you were talking about here which is like family of origin and how that affects um you know how you how you handle money in your marriage and how you h how you the feelings you have about money that you so clearly articulated and all of those things. And um I I have a friend

that was um that never really got healed

>> from what you're talking about. Um, and he was worth several hundred million dollars and he he he worked, you know, like 12 hours a day.

>> Yeah. >> Um, but he he said, "I grew up dirt poor." And for those of you that don't know what that means, that means literally the floor of the house was dirt. >> Mhm. >> That's what dirt poor means in East Tennessee. Okay. Or in the hills of Appalachia. And so he grew up in a dirt floor house. They called that dirt poor.

I've heard it my whole life. Mhm.

>> And so, um, but he he never got over his childhood, the trauma >> that his childhood represented on the on the subject of money. And so, he just he could never make enough. He could never save enough because he never got healed from that. >> Absolutely. >> And that's that's that's the beauty of your question is you're the opposite end of that. You're seeking healing.

>> And so, um, Dr. John Deloney gave us a

great saying. He I first heard him say cover it back during COVID. Um, but he's

done a lot of trauma work. And for purposes of this discussion, we're going to declare your childhood traumatic.

>> That's Yeah, that's very fair. >> At a min at a minimum, it was dramatic, but we might call it traumatic. And he said, when you've had when you're in the middle of trauma, it affect it, it it

has a signature in your body. And so you

physically feel like you did when you

were a child when you write these checks

because it brings back all those fears and your body tenses up in exactly the same places it did when you were 12.

>> Yes, 100%. >> And that's how trauma works. He's explained that to me. I didn't know that, but he's a he's got a PhD in in this stuff. So he's taught a lot of he taught a lot of us around here stuff like this. So he says when you're dealing with this and you your body starts to remember and act like you're

still broke, like you're 12 years old and you don't have enough to eat, >> your body starts remembering that. But that's not the facts. He says the way to work through that is facts are your friends. >> Mhm. >> And you stop for a second and go, okay, what are the facts? The facts are I'm

not my mom.

>> Yeah. My the facts are our kids are not in the same situation my kids are. The facts are we make over a hundred freaking thousand dollars a year and my husband has one of the most employable careers on the planet right now.

>> Mhm. >> The chances of him going without work is really close to zero.

>> That's good to know. He actually just got promoted to diesel tech. So I'm very excited about that. >> I'm telling you, he's never going to be without work as long as he physically can do the work. That's that's good >> because there's there's a shortage and and it's the trades and the trades are booming right now. He's in a he's in a really sweet spot. That's a fact. So the

fact is you're so far away mathematically from your childhood.

>> Mhm. >> That these feelings then are illogical and you can begin to tell yourself that.

>> Yes. Yeah. And and I do I I'm actually kind of the nerd of of our marriage and I have a a paper I I I do it old school.

I I have Every Dollar but just the free version. So I do an old school like monthly budget and I do it every two weeks just to see kind of where we're landing to just show me, hey, you do make over $100,000 a year. You're insane. Stop acting like that.

>> It's not It's not insane. It's not insane. It's the result of bad things happening. If something bad happens, your body remembers that.

>> Yeah. and you literally physiologically

relive that fear.

You, you know, your shoulders tighten up. Uh, you know, your your shoulders raise up. You know, you're you're in, you're like you said, you're in fight or flight mode. >> Yeah. >> And your lizard brain is kicking in instead of your high thinking, high functioning brain because that's what happens when danger comes.

>> And so, we all face this. We all face this. And so, for different reasons, different things activate that. whether it's childhood or something else. And so, um, you know, I I think you just

practice stopping when you start having that feeling and tell your body that it's wrong.

>> Okay. Yeah, I can do that. I actually told myself that it's wrong. >> Yeah. Deep breaths. This is you're you're wrong. We are not there. That's where we were when I was 12, but I'm not 12. I'm not my mom, and we're not in

that situation.

And no blame or shame. It's just where we are. The fact is you're not in any

danger.

And it just takes a little while for your body and your for you to retrain

your your brain to go to observe where you are. Does that make sense?

>> It does. It absolutely does. And and I agree with you 100%. I mean, to your point, the math is there. It's it's plain on paper that >> we're not we're not drowning. We just need to work a little bit hard to get out of the hole that we're in. >> Yeah. You didn't you didn't you didn't you didn't say the math wasn't there.

You you just said I can't get the emotions to stop.

>> Right. >> How much do you have in savings?

>> Um right now we're I mean we have our baby step one. So we have $1,000. Um and then we're we're slowly chunking away.

Um I actually just paid off one of our >> [music] >> um credit cards. I mean it was only $500, but I actually just you know pulled the trigger and and paid it off this way to go. Hey, we're going to upgrade your every dollar to the advanced version. We're going to pay for it for you. I think you're amazing. I'm [music] so proud of you guys. Keep it up. >> You know your numbers and that tells me you're going to get out of this. >> You're going to be okay.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> You know, our last caller talking about the feelings and the emotions around money reminded me of Jade Warshaw's new book, What No One Tells You About Money.

The real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there. This is the

true thing here where

the emotions Jade gets into the emotions

in this book like like no one else. It's really good cuz she dealt with so much emotion fighting through her and Sam paying off $465,000 of debt. So, this is a great new book by

Jade Washaw, one of our Ramsay Solutions uh publishing endeavors. And uh you can

pre-order it right now for $24.99. Get over $100 in free bonus items, enhanced audio book, early access to the ebook, instant access to the exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade Wall.

And here's what's cool. They're going to do exclusive 3-week online book club for those that pre-order >> that includes a live Q&A with Jade for 3

weeks. >> That's cool. >> That's going to be neat.

>> And so, uh, and I promise you this lady can walk you right straight through whatever you're on, moving you right to where you want to go. And that's that's the thing. So, >> this will get you unstuck if you're on that journey. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's pretty cool. The book is What No One Tells You About Money. So, be sure and get it pre-ordered right now at ramiesolutions.comstore.

Paige is with us in Chicago. Hi, Paige.

How are you? >> Hi, I'm good. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I just had a question um about

saving for my son. I am 24. My son's 18

months. Um, I'm a stay-at-home mom and

my husband and I I find it well, he also does too. We're really looking into saving for our son for big things, uh,

school, down payment on a home when he gets older, um, just big things that

will help him later in life get a step ahead.

And I was just looking for advice on maybe like how um, maybe like investment

accounts or saving accounts, compoundable accounts, like things like that. Right now, we're just putting uh $80 away a month for him.

>> Into what? >> And um it's just into a mun municipal

fund. It's not anything crazy or special. >> Okay. Well, there's not anything crazy or special. And uh it sounds like you're very excited about having a new baby, and that's awesome. And you're good mommy and good daddy. You want your kid to do better than you've done. That's awesome. Proud of you for all of that.

Uh, I personally would tell you not to use special accounts that are earmarked just for him. I simply would build wealth. You and your husband build some wealth and then as he gets older, you

can reach over and pay for college. Or as he gets older, you can reach over and buy a house and give it to him. And if you want to, those two things would cause him to leapfrog ahead. A paid for education and a free house. you know, if he if he gets some knowledge with that and some wisdom to go with that, he could go be a millionaire in 20 seconds if he did if he had those two things alone. But you could do that just out of your personal mutual fund account. You

don't have to have a special earmarked for him. He could be your motivation for

building that and that's a wonderful motivation changing your family tree, right? >> Oh, yeah. For sure. >> Yeah.

>> So, the key is it's it's in your name, you have control. Because here's the issue. If he turns 18 and there's $200,000 in there, you have to hope he wants to buy a house and do something wise with it. But you remember when we were 18, our brain was not thinking quite logically.

And so that's the danger of just handing over six figures to an 18-year-old. So 529 plan is great for college savings. And then outside of that, if you want to open just a mutual fund account, a brokerage account like Dave mentioned, you can invest for him there in your name. >> Yeah.

I would just I just have you be building wealth. Yes. I would be saving for college on 529 when you get to that baby step five wherever you are in the baby steps.

so here's here let me give you an example. Okay we saved up for our kids college our three kids that are now not kids that are now grown humans. Okay?

>> And uh and in those days there wasn't a

529. So, we just saved what was called

an utma, uniform transfer to miners act, which simply means we opened an account in their name in good mutual funds and

we were the custodian. It was their money, okay? And it grew at their tax

rate. And you can do that and that you could do that or you can do a 529.

Either one. 529 grows taxfree, which is the benefit of that. So, and and here's

what happened though. When they got to college, we had started doing so well

that I just wrote the checks out of the checking account and paid for college.

>> Cash flow it. >> I just cash flowed it. So that ended up with each kid having a nice big nest egg

in the mutual funds. And when they graduated from college, I signed that over to them [clears throat] and that gave them a pretty good chunk like the amount of college, right, to get started with.

That was pretty sweet. And so stuff like that is easy to do, but there's no I I

would not bifurcate something at for an 18-month-old, set it aside in his name, create some double backflip trust crap or something, and then hope that all works out. Instead, I think you raise the kid and you raise a big pile of money and you'll be able to combine the two. If they both

work, [laughter] >> that's the big thing. >> If both turn out, the big pile of money turns out and the kid turns out, then we can combine them. That's called winning as a parent. >> Yeah. But I mean, you don't want to give a 18-year-old heroin addict $200,000.

You'll kill them because they'll go overdose in a heartbeat. And so that that's the problem. And I'm not suggesting that your little guy's going to end up that at all. Uh but I have in 35 years of doing this heard some really sad stories. So I I just keep it in your name. Build a big old pile of wealth.

Get yourself out of debt. You know, be investing in your 401ks and have some mutual fund investing to the side. And then you look over and there's some money and uh he gets married and you want to buy him a house and pay cash for it. Tell him never get into debt. And he's a great young man. He's a citizen.

He graduated from college. He's making a good money. He's standing on his own two feet. He's not living in his mommy's basement sucking his thumb at 24 years old. And this is a great kid. Yeah,

write a check. Buy him a house. I would definitely do that. Definitely.

Open phones at 888255225.

Katie is in De Moine. Hi Katie, how are you? >> Hi Dave, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure, what's up?

>> So, just a little bit of background for you. Um, I am just about to turn 40 here at the end of the month and my husband and I have been married for six years.

We bought a home 5 years ago and we were

in pretty good shape. um we both worked full-time and then I got sick um and had

to drastically reduce my income because

of that and we went through financial

peace university right before that happened. Um so we were on baby step number one still. Um and I got we've

gotten ourselves into quite a bit of credit card debt at this point and

because of all the health challenges and medical and just just so many things. Um >> the you don't have you don't have health insurance to cover most of that.

>> Oh, we do. Yeah. Um but so I've been

type 1 diabetic since I was 10. So I've been dealing with that for 30 years. So that just adds extra finances on top of

um I'm dealing with some type of autoimmune issue that we haven't been able to figure out. Um been going to lots of doctors. Some some doctors

like holistic functional not >> how much how much student I mean I'm sorry. How much credit card debt do you have? um 18,000 right now and I have four different credit cards. >> Okay. And and um

h have you found a diagnosis?

>> Um I think we're on the brink of it. I'm going to see a rheatologist here um next week. >> I just found out I have some type of um autoimmune thyroid issue going on on top

of >> So you've got no energy.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. I can barely

You can barely what?

>> I can barely work.

>> I understand. I'm so sorry. And you said

you're 40?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yep. I will be. >> And what's your husband's income?

>> Uh my husband um gross income or net?

>> Gross. >> Growth in is 60,000.

>> Okay. And how much is your house payment?

>> Um house payment is $1,241.

>> Okay. Listen, I think you guys have had

the crud beat out of you with this medical thing and the emotions that go with that. I think you've done amazingly well considering everything that's coming at you. I think you really really have done good job. So, keep doing a good job and get the other side of this and then you can figure out what you're doing. The house is not causing [music] you a problem and 18,000 is not causing you a problem. You can clean that up as soon as you get your health returned.

>> [music]

>> 14 months ago, my wife Sharon and I went on a 13-day journey through [music]

the country of Turkey. visiting each of the churches of Revelation with an incredible Bible teacher who has become a close friend, Brad Gray. Brad is

joining us because Brad's working on a project that he got to tell me about while we were in Turkey. And we've been uh kind of teamed up a little bit. I've been part of his background vocals uh while he's been working on this thing. And uh we've had a couple of events and things raising some money for this because this this project is absolutely

stunning and incredible and I want to be able to tell you about it. So, I brought Brad on. Uh, he has a fulllength feature

film called The Lord's Prayer, 1 hour and 22 minutes. Sharon and I watched it the other night. It is the visuals and the um the photography is world class.

It will blow your mind. And he spends that hour and 22 minutes unpacking the Lord's Prayer. You've got to watch it.

We're going to provide it for you. He's going to provide it for you for free uh through Angel. It's with Angel Studios.

So, angel.com/rramsey, you can watch it for free. Welcome, my friend. >> Hey, it's great to be here. Thank you.

>> Good to have you. So, how I know you're

working on this and I know the answer because I've heard you tell this, but I want to throw you the underhand pitch.

You've been working on the whole sacred thread concept all through scripture and teaching scripture in a way that uh

translates to the big screen or translates to your television screen to where we can learn it at a different rate and a different way because when you see the locations it shifts the learning but you started with the Lord's Prayer. Now you got an entire book the book is out bringing heaven here uh which is a book on the Lord's Prayer and 122 minutes on the Lord's Prayer which we all just recite like and we're done. >> Yeah. >> And it but when you unpack it the way you do, it's pretty incredible.

>> Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. >> So, what inspires you to write an entire book and do this feature film on the Lord's Prayer? >> Yeah.

Well, it actually began seven years ago without any thought of a book or a film or a television series, but I was actually just sitting down and reading the sermon on the mount. When Jesus gets to the Lord's Prayer, he prefaces it with, "And this then is how you should pray." And I just had a moment where I was like, h like I think he actually meant it. [laughter] And which was almost embarrassing for me. I've been leading these study trips since 2010.

I was a pastor for more than a decade. I've been in church world my entire life. And yet the Lord's Prayer wasn't something that was part of my daily regimen. And I just realized at that moment that I needed to do a very deep dive for my own soul.

result of going through it and seeing what was there, it was much deeper, much wider, more compelling than I ever knew.

And because it started to transform my life, my faith, my prayers, my thoughts,

and just how I went about life every day, when we started to work on this idea to create the highest quality documentary series that's ever been done on the Bible, it was like, then let's start with the Lord's Prayer. Everything is contained in that. >> Yeah. That that it's all there.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then but then we can go deeper and wider even from that. But let this be the jumping off point.

And uh as I said, what gave you guys the idea to go to the location cuz you're standing next to the pyramids, you're standing next to the Nile, you're standing, you know, in all these different locations where some of the singular words in the prayer were originated like father is the opening thing, right? >> Our father and then you do 10 minutes on father. Yep.

>> So, my first study trip to the Middle East happened in 2006 and it completely

revolutionized my faith because you hear all these stories growing up and then you actually go to the locations and everything fits and you're just like, "Oh, this thing is real." And just being there and walking it changes the way that you engage and experience the story. And so when we wanted to put this documentary series together, uh most people would think, oh, Jesus is giving the Lord's Prayer in Israel. You're going to be in Israel. We're actually in six different countries for this opening film and season because all of these pieces are connecting around the Roman Empire.

They're connecting back to Egypt for the Exodus story for Jesus.

>> we just knew that 99.9% of people, even just professing Christians, will never set foot in the Holy Lands. And we wanted to bring that not just to people in America, but all over the world to be able to see these locations and allow them to make some additional connections to connecting the dots of scripture. >> That's incredible. Well, you you call this prayer a framework for transformation.

And I'm reminded by our mission here at Ramsey. We're in the transformation business, you know, for your money, your your work, your life, your relationships. In what way is this relevant today to help transform people's lives?

>> Yeah. Well, the greatest thing about the Lord's Prayer that was kind of really revealed to me was this is actually the

most distilled place in scripture for helping people to understand who God is, why Jesus came, and what's our purpose here on earth. You know, and that's one of the things that you guys do such a great job with is helping people to be very clear and focused on what's important and doing the right things in order to live life the best way that you can. And the Lord's prayer is a blueprint for living. It wasn't just a prayer Jesus taught people to pray.

It was the very prayer that he was living out in his own life.

learn that over the last seven years in particular of praying this prayer every day, it's the singular most important

thing I do every day to re-calibrate to

what is the most important aspects of life and how do we live life well as a result of it. >> Wow. Was it Ent Wright that you were interviewing that said he prayed it every morning? >> Yes. >> He was He's in the documentary.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He's in the documentary.

Yeah. >> He said he starts his prayer or ends his prayer. >> Ends his prayer. Yeah. >> Every time with the Lord's prayer because it's a framework. >> Because it's a framework. >> Because it resets. It's a a settling point. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Very cool. Very cool. Again, you got to go watch this. It's completely free, boys and girls. Go to angel.com/ramsey.

Angel has made it free for you guys and you can watch it there and stream it and just pop it up on your screen. Sharon and I watched it the other night. The premiere was done here at the Ramsey Event Center a few weeks ago. Um I was out of town, missed that, but I heard it went real well.

It was awesome. >> And a lot of people were I was getting texts from all my friends that were friends of yours that were in the audience watching it going, "Hey Brad, you got the thing out.

>> Yeah. [clears throat] I'm glad. Give us this day our daily bread.

>> Yeah, I love this part of the prayer because actually you mentioned NT Wright, you know, he wrote a book um a number of years ago where he said the problem with asking for daily bread is that we get there too soon and that so

often times when we open up prayer, we have kind of a laundry list of all the things that we want to ask for we that we need. And what's great about daily bread is it actually comes much further down in the prayer where the rest of it kind of sets the frame for what are we called to do? How are we supposed to to partner with God in the world? And daily bread really becomes about asking God for what is essential for the task at

hand. Like when we're called to do something, what's essential? And the thing that's so great about the daily bread piece is that it also reminds us that the whole prayer is in the plural.

Give us this day our daily bread. And when you dig into just what daily bread meant and what Jesus was inviting his community into, it's not just asking God for the things that you need. It's also supposed to cause you to pause and ask the question, how am I being generous?

So that when other people are praying, give us this day our daily bread, c can I play a part in being the fulfillment of their request? So it's actually part of the prayer that really inspires a sense of generosity. And too often we

get so caught up in asking for things or pursuing things that don't actually matter. I mean, the number of calls you guys get in, people are making bad decisions because they're pursuing the wrong things. And they're pursuing the wrong things in the wrong way. This is a part of the prayer where we're going, okay, God, what is essential?

What do I really need? And how can I be generous with what you've given to me so that when somebody else is praying, give us this day our daily bread, I might actually be that answer. >> Yeah, good reminder.

uh, where he literally walks you through the text in different locations. That's what Sharon and I were doing with Revelation Churches in in Turkey, uh, with a group there and with him. It was absolutely incredible time. Uh, the new film, it's a fulllength 1 hour and 22minute feature film. You get to watch it free. Angel.com/ramsey.

It's called The Lord's Prayer. [music] Recommended heavily. And of course, Bringing Heaven here is the companion piece book. You can get it anywhere great books are sold. I assume Amazon.

>> Yes. >> Yes. Amazon for sure. Okay. Be sure and check it out. So, Bringing Heaven here and the Lord's Prayer. My friend, I'm proud of you. This is really good work.

Thanks for stopping in. >> Yeah. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. >> Brad Gray, ladies and gentlemen,

[music]

[music]

Our

[music]

scripture of the day, Psalm 128:2, you will eat the fruit of your labor.

Blessings and prosperity will be yours.

Steve Jobs said, "The only way to do great work is to love what you do." If you haven't found it yet, keep looking.

Don't settle. One of our favorite things here is finding out that people share their stories of how they're winning. We just heard this from Claire and Winston.

This is me and my husband's third month budgeting with the Every Dollar app, and I'm amazed at how much money we found.

We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding $3500

extra margin each month to put towards our debt. We had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off in less than 3 months, never going back.

Boy, that's cool, guys. That's amazing.

I'm proud of you. Hey, guys, you can do this, too. You can take control of your money and change your family tree and live like no one else. Go to and go go

online and download the Every Dollar Budgeting app for free. It's a full plan. Budgeting is just in the background. We're going to walk you through the Ramsay plan and show you exactly how to do this stuff. Go get every dollar and get it right now. Amy's in Grand Rapids. Hi, Amy. How are you?

>> Hi. Thanks so much, Dave and George, for taking my call. Sure. >> Um, I'm calling because my husband and I would like you guys to help settle a difference of opinion we have >> on how to invest our 15%. Mhm.

>> Um so one of us would like to invest that in, you know, ETFs, mutual funds in our Roth IAS, Roth 401k. Um the other

would like to invest in a unique real estate situation we have on our paid for property on Lake Michigan.

>> A paid for is it a rental property?

>> No, it's actually where we live. So we have our home is paid for.

>> Fixing up your home is not investing.

It's fixing up your home.

Well, we have a like a second home, a cabin, one of those like A-frame Sears

kit things. >> Mhm. >> And we were hoping to renovate that and

then bring it up and rent it out.

>> Oh, okay. So, it's not in rental condition now.

>> Right. Exactly. >> What will it take to fix it?

>> Well, it's also on the edge of the bluff, so we'd have to move it back, which would be about 30,000. And then to bring it up to rental grade would be about another 70,000. So we're looking at like a h 100,000 and all.

>> How much do you guys have saved right now?

>> Um not really much. So we actually had a

repair on our house set us back to baby step three. So, we're rebuilding that right now and we're trying to figure out when we hit play which way to go on this >> because we've had some property managers that have been like you can get, you know, 1,500 to 2,000 a week because it's really unique >> as like an Airbnb >> property. >> Yeah, exactly.

>> Well, I don't see this in the category of baby step four. Baby step four is invest 15% in retirement. And this is not retirement. >> This is real estate investing. >> Just separate it. just doing 15% retirement and above that save up this chunk and cash flow the renovation. >> What's your household income?

>> Okay. About 225,000.

>> Okay. All right.

Um Okay. The um you said Lake Michigan,

didn't you? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you don't have a 12-month season, >> right? That is true.

>> Okay. So 1,500 is for just a short

period of time.

>> Although we do have a lot of folks that come in recreational for like fishing and and that sort of thing. >> Not 1,500 a week.

>> No, but you're right. You're right. It would be less than that. >> You're looking for the people who want to make an Instagram post out of this, not your your >> But that's just that you got a three-month season here. You don't have a you don't have a 12-month season. So, don't um it sounds like you're cherrypicking the numbers to make this sound more appealing than it is. I'm not sure it's a great investment, period.

Cuz a h 100red grand in with the rental you're going to get back out. And running an Airbnb is running a hotel.

It's a pain in the butt.

>> It's a lot of work.

>> You're changing dirty sheets and hauling off garbage. >> Someone is.

Yeah, we were thinking you could get property management, but you're >> But then then your 1,500 a month starts to evaporate >> and your Airbnb fees top.

>> Well, sorry. Per week.

>> Yeah, I'm sorry. 1,500 a week. But yeah, but but that's only for a short period of time. But so yeah, I I um I think you

need to run a realistic proforma on this instead of throwing the 1500 a week around and acting like that's a 12-month roll. It's not.

>> And uh when you do that, I don't know if you're going to see a great return on 100k. So, even if we didn't put it in

baby step four and we said, "Okay, baby step six, you start or seven, you fix you save up and fix this up as an investment property later on. You drop 100k in it. Are you going to get your money back out in cash flow?" I don't

know if you're you might you might it might it might work out for you. But, um, the thing I know about real estate is and I own a bunch of it is net is different than gross.

You have gross rents and everybody walks around talking about their gross rents, but you have property taxes, you have insurance, you have expenses, you have maintenance, you have vacancy, you have legal trouble, you have everything else that comes out of that and then you have net. And so the, you know, people walk

act like that, especially inexperienced real estate investors act like that they're the that, you know, it's it's 1,500 and it's not. It's not because

somebody's got to take out the garbage and clean the sheets and somebody's got to deal with the stuff and the heat and air is going to go out and then some bozo throws a beer bottle through the window and welcome to Airbnb and so uh

it's it's a thing man. So I no it's not

a baby step four. Joe's right. George is right. I don't know who Joe is but George is right. And >> my bizarro arch nemesis. And so, uh, yeah, the the, uh, now I would be putting baby step four, 15% into retirement in good growth stock mutual funds. That's what I'd be doing there.

This investment would be later on, um,

or with a different set of money than that. It is not investing for retirement. No, I would not do that. And I I I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying it doesn't qualify for that the way we teach. And I wouldn't do it until you've got some extra money later. Right now, you're just just above broke.

You're just now getting it past baby step three and now you're starting to move into investing and you're now you're talking start dropping 100 grand into a real estate deal. No, no, not right now. Not right now. Hope that helps. Hope I solved the argument. I think I came down on her side. I think the husband's not happy, but that's okay. We'll we'll live. >> You'll live to tell the tale. >> Yeah. Ben is in Phoenix. Hey, Ben. How are you? >> I'm great. How you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

So, I uh recently was going through uh

my house. Um I knew I had this, but I rediscovered um some gold coins that my dad has been buying for me for Christmas since I was a kid. Um and I did the math

and it's about $22,000 worth of gold coins >> um that I have. Yeah. So, um recently my fiance uh was laid off in August. So, um

you know, we lost a chunk of our income, but we're still living within our means.

Um, we're in pretty good shape all things considered still. Um, we do have our $1,000 emergency fund for baby step one. Um, and the only debt that both of us have is the house that I bought when I was 24 and our cars. Um, but I was

>> What do you owe on your car?

>> I owe about 20,000 bucks and she's at about 15,000 bucks. >> But you're not married. You're not paying off somebody's car you're not married to. >> Correct. Yes. >> So there's not a Wii. There's not a Wii.

You have a roommate. [laughter] >> Okay. >> You have $22,000 worth of gold and you need to put it on your stuff until you're married. When's the marriage?

>> Uh in October. And the wedding is going to be covered from both of our parents' savings for it. Fortunately, >> what what you say you owed on your car?

>> Uh about 20,000. >> Oh, perfect. Sell the gold and pay off your car.

>> Okay. I've been wondering. My dad is a little bit of a panicker and he says never sell it. And I've always been wondering, well then what's it for? I'm never supposed to >> Well, and never have a car payment either. And never go get another car payment after this.

>> Yeah. >> It's your last time ever.

>> Yeah. >> But here's a good way to think about it. If I gave you $22,000 right now, you wouldn't go buy gold with it, would you?

>> Well, when you put it like that, I didn't even call. >> That's the simplest way I can think about it. And I go, let's sell the gold and turn it into money. Now, what's the best use of this money is getting rid of our consumer debt. That's going to really free you up. >> Boom. Just like that. and you guys quit combining finances until October. You're

not married. It's very dangerous. Stop

it. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, [music] and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat.

[music]

Heat.

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## 76. Get Your Finances In Order Now So You Can Enjoy Your Life Later | January 8, 2026


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[music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to tell you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair [music] Winds Credit Union studios, this is the Ramsay

Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, number one [music] best-selling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show, Ramsay personality, and my daughter is my co-host today. Phone number is 88825-55225.

Tracy's in Chicago. Hi, Tracy. How are you? >> Hi. Good. >> Good. What's up?

So, my husband and I had a few opportunities pop up that we never

thought would line up and happen that we were able to move closer to our family.

It was something we were really excited about. The hardest thing with it was we have a small business that we are in the process of selling. We have never lived

by credit card debt. With this business, it involved purchasing inventory with a credit card. And now with the selling of

this business, we know we're going to be left with that credit card bill, but not the income from the business. And so, we're kind of at a really nerve-wracking stuck point. >> Are you getting money for the business when you sell the business?

>> We are getting a small amount because of the distance we were moving. we had to sell it quicker. Um then we probably could have got a better price if the sale could have went longer.

>> Um so that money is absolutely being put towards this and then we are financing.

>> So what are the numbers? How much are you get how much are you getting for the business and then how much do you end up in credit card debt? >> So we have currently got 15 grand from

it >> and then we'll continue to get another 20 grand over the next three years. Mhm.

>> So, it'll be small payments coming in.

>> And how much how much credit card debt is it? >> So, we have 49,000 that we will have a

credit card debt.

>> Wow. So, this business was a real failure.

>> Yeah. We had just taken it over. So, we really didn't have time to start recouping the funds of the initial investment at all.

>> Wow.

All right. So you got So 35,000 left in credit card debt that you're going to have to clean up. >> Exactly. So what are you going to be making at the new location? What's your new careers?

>> So we will still have income coming in

for a few more months that we're hoping to really pour towards that because there is a truck loan with the business as well. So we're trying to figure out if it's best to sell the truck or

>> Yes. >> keep it within it since it's LLC.

>> No. Um, >> it's not an LLC. You signed personally for the truck.

You signed personally for the credit card debt. I don't care if it's running through an LLC. That's only in your mind. The bank ain't going to sue the LLC. They're going to sue you.

You are liable. No, you sell the truck

today. >> How much underwater are you guys on that, Tracy? Do you know?

So, from what I've looked at, the loan

is around 38K and then the cash offer

estimate would be about 30.

>> Oh, you're killing me. >> Okay. Well, it's 8 grand in the hole.

Yeah. All right. We got eight grand. Okay. So, >> this is the worst business deal I've heard in a while. >> Well, it's not like 380,000. It's like

>> So, okay. One more time then. What are you guys going to be doing for a living at the new location?

>> So, we both have different careers. We will be bringing in about eight grand a month. We do have everything budgeted, so we would have about two to three grand a month to play with out of our budget. >> Okay. >> Well, then it's kind of it's kind of irrelevant to pay this off.

>> It's kind of irrelevant how we got here.

You have an $8,000 hole that you're going to have to finance on the truck cuz you're selling the truck and you

have $35,000 in credit card debt. And

you make $8,000 a month and $2,000 a month to go towards debt on your debt snowball. How much other debt do you all have?

>> Only our house. >> Oh, good. Are you selling it when you move?

>> So, we already sold and bought a new house. So, right now it's just the one house. Okay. All right. Good. All right.

Yeah. So, I mean, you you you know, we have $43,000 in debt and we make $100,000 a year and let's pay it off and

that's you know, just run the debt snowball on it. Is there something wrong with that? >> Are there any good tactics for negotiating with the credit cards to get like a lump sum payoff because we will most likely still have another 52,000 coming in from the operation of the business. Well, that'll be that'll be nice if it does come in

>> um to recoup the fact that you had to take this money out of your cash flow in the meantime because you're not going to wait around on that money to come.

>> You're going to go ahead and clear this debt now. >> No, there's not a tactic. The only way that people don't the only people on the only way people accept less on the debt

that is owed is if they don't think it's going to be paid. And the reason they don't think it's going to be paid is if you're not paying it on time. And so if you want to not pay your payments for 6 months, >> yeah, you probably could negotiate with them, but I don't recommend that you have the money to pay your bill. You should just pay your bill.

>> Okay. >> Okay.

Thanks for the call. >> Open phones at 8. No, I mean, no, this is just [laughter] spicy. The first call of the show, Dave. >> Well, it's okay. >> People make Listen, that is life.

Everyone in the audience is like, "Yeah, Dave." Yeah. [gasps] >> Listen, that's life though, people. That is a situation that happens.

>> Let me recoup then. >> For a lot for a lot of people. >> Just comb back through it for a minute. >> It could have been $38,000 in a car that we get. You know, we get that call. >> We get that call all the time. Here's the thing, okay? When you operate a

business, it's supposed to make money.

>> Otherwise, it's what called a hobby.

Okay? And you don't buy a business that

small and borrow $38,000 for a pickup.

You used your business purchase as an excuse to buy a truck you wanted. That's what happened. And now it bit you in the butt and you ran up a bunch of credit

card debt because you weren't running the business well and it was losing money. You don't get to just go, "Oh, it's inconvenient for me to pay that now% >> when I have the money." You pay your bill. Oh, I totally agree with that. But >> sorry if I'm chippy on it, but [laughter] that's just them.

But they had they had the opportunity to move close to family and so that that decision is what caused them to sell the business, right? They >> Well, let me just say what happened. They they went way too fast on the whole thing. >> I agree.

That's a great lesson.

>> On both things, the purchase of the business and the move to family. If they have slowed down, sold the business for more money. >> Yep. >> They could have limited the damage they did when they didn't slow down and buy the business carefully. Mhm.

>> And but now it's just like we did this bing and we just do we just go we just go do stuff and that that's the kind of stuff that'll bite your freaking wallet in half >> is you just start um jumping around on

stuff and it it's slow down.

>> Well, and it's the urgency. It's what we talk about even with um sorry this sort

of analogy but people that like invest in real estate for instance and they have so it's what happened to you. You have so much and then you get in trouble and you're and then you end up selling for less. the urgency on anything, right? You could real estate business.

>> I've often said this about me and I'll say it about others as well is right after I get desperate, I get stupid.

>> Yeah. >> And that's what you're talking about. >> Yep. >> And so once you paint yourself in the corner and you realize you're going to get paint on your feet, >> then you get silly and you start ice skating in the paint. I mean, it's nuts.

>> Yep. Yep.

Heat. Heat.

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>> Well, we know there's a lot of chaos and noise out there making you feel like you can't get ahead with money. There's a lot of negative, hopeless messages out there. But you have more control than you think you do. And this year, it's time to take back your money.

starting with our free every dollar live stream tomorrow night, Thursday night.

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everydoll.comlivestream tomorrow night, Thursday night, for those of you uh out there depending on when you're picking this up, right? And we'd love to have you. It's completely free. everydoll.com/livestream.

And Rachel, we got about 2500 people going to be on campus in the Ramsey Event Center. It is completely sold out.

And uh you guys, you the rest of you, John and you and uh George and uh Ken

and whoever are all going to be answering questions for the live audience before we go to the live stream. >> That's right. Yep. We will not be on the live stream, but we will be hanging out with everybody that's here in person, which will be so fun.

And yeah, these events are always great. It's always a great way to kick off the new year, especially with people with their money goals and everything they have that they're looking forward to. So, yeah, it'll be fun.

Deloney and Rachel and Ken and George.

And then Jade and I will be doing the actual live stream uh in the in the second portion of it. So, uh wherever

you are, make sure you join us. It's going to be an incredible event and I promise you will leave with some actionable, doable things and some real hope in the middle of all the hopeless messages that are out there. John is in

Chicago. Hi, John. How are you?

>> Good, guys. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, just wondering if you guys be able to give me some clarity here. Another parent plus loan question for you. Um, back when I was 18, both my parents took

out a parent plus loan uh for me to go

to school. And during this whole time,

my dad just kept on saying, you know, hey, don't worry about this loan. Don't worry about this loan. They even brought up, you know, staying home, but he wanted me to get the full college experience like at the dorms.

And, uh, you know, fast forward to now.

Um, my mom, my dad's no longer with us.

Um, my mom is now expecting me to pay

everything back in full when I've kind of organized my life to where I I would not have to do that. I have been paying this loan >> for a while now and um now I

>> because I felt obligated.

>> Um, kind of guilty. >> Why kind of guilty? >> I thought you weren't obligated.

>> That's the thing. They needed some help.

They came into some financial issues. My dad got sick and couldn't work anymore and eventually eventually that that illness took his life. But um >> I'm sorry.

>> Okay. So, what do you make, John?

>> Um I make uh my household income cuz I'm married is uh 221.

>> Mhm. And what is the parent plus loan?

>> What's the balance on >> right now? It's at uh 104,000.

>> Oh, wow. >> Wow. It's no minor puppy.

>> Yeah. >> No. No. Well, does your mom have the

money?

>> Um, that's the thing, Dave. Uh, my dad

had a really big life insurance thing.

Uh, probably I think it was like 200 or 250. >> Mhm. >> And, um, you know, I brought this up how both both of them promised like to take care of this. My mom has got amnesia about it now, but she decided to spend

all that um paid for my sister's

wedding. um redid her entire house, paid

off her car, did all these things and

still expecting me to do all this. So I don't >> So how does she if she's used all that money, how is she surviving?

>> Well, she has her own job. She's working. >> What does she mean? >> She does work.

>> Last time I knew it was about 120 and

that was probably five five or so years ago. I know last year at the beginning of last year she uh she got really sick.

She we we we did almost lose her to uh acute kidney failure, but >> John, how old are you?

>> I'm 34. >> How old is she?

>> She is almost 60.

>> It's like Sounds like you all are disconnected >> in 12 years, right? Did you graduate 22?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Or 20. >> Yeah. >> 21.

>> So, this has been I was going to say this has been over a decade, right, of you of you paying it. Um, and how often

do you guys talk? Like when's the last time you brought this up to her?

>> The last time I brought this up, um, it was actually a three-way call because it turns out I was actually she consolidated this whole thing and I was actually paying my sister's student loans as well. >> Oh my gosh. >> And I didn't even dive into that until my wife, you know, bless her heart, she kept pushing me like, "No, look at this.

Look at this." And >> I was paying that. And I was like, "Hey, you guys need to pay this." I ended up paying almost two grand worth of her student loans and you know all this has

been combined together. Now >> is the 104 in include your sisters?

>> No, that's just mine.

>> Yeah, it's she asking your sister to pay hers.

>> Uh she did, but my sister just isn't paying it. And she's also living there at my mom with her husband.

Uh both of um my sister's husband that is my brother-in-law. Yeah, there's a lot of you have a lot of feelings about you're not real happy with your mom in general >> aside from this.

>> I mean, you made several derogatory statements aside from this issue.

>> Yeah. And I mean, it is I've talked about these things with her to try to get like through it, but it always is just like, well, you're the one who's the man. You have to be responsible. I mean, she even one point said, well, she's your sister and your only sister.

You should just take care of that. And it's I don't know. It just I kind of been a dormat. I'll be honest with it because I just uh >> Yeah. And I think you're I think you're kind of over that. Well, I guess you got I guess you got two choices, don't you?

>> Yeah. >> And let's just kind of talk through what happens with either one. Okay. One is you don't pay it.

>> Say, "Mom, you know, you and dad promised to pay it and you make enough money to pay this and you know, um

sister's not paying hers. I'm not paying mine and you guys promised to pay it. I know you forgot about it, but you did.

And um I'm sorry, but that's what we're

going to do, and I'm not paying it anymore. That's one option, right?

>> Yeah. >> And the other option is shut up and pay it.

>> Then that's not really an option for me because my, you know, my wife, we're we just went through the u uh financial piece and we we've paid off over like

120 grand worth of our own debt. Then you then you know what's gonna happen when you stop when you cut this off, right?

>> Yeah. I'm gonna I feel like I have a choice between my mom and my wife and I got to choose my wife. That's how it feels. >> Well, no, that's not true. That's not fair of your wife. Your wife should be participating in this decision. She's made her voice clear that she doesn't think this is right. I agree with her it's not right. You agree with her it's not right. But now you've got to decide because a 100% chance when you do this, it ends your relationship with your mother and your sister.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I don't want my

four kids to not, >> you know, have their grandma.

>> That's up to their That's up to their grandma. That's not up to you.

>> Okay. >> You know. >> Okay. >> Mom, you're more than welcome here. I'm not angry with you. We'd love to have you for Thanksgiving. Love to have you see the kids. love to have a relationship with you, but I'm not going to be paying this. My wife and I are not

okay with the fact that the money was wasted on one side. You paid everybody's stuff except this after you and dad promised to pay this and you make enough money to pay it. >> Now, I got to tell you, if she was a starving widow or something >> and you But that's not what you've outlined here, okay? Then I I I might change my tune if I were you and I might talk to your wife about that.

>> And I don't like the unhealthy unbalance of putting everything on him, especially his sister.

>> Yeah. Your mom Your mom's definitely out of control. There's no question about that. But that's not fair. >> When you set a boundary with boundaryless people, 100% of the time they go cray cray.

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>> [music]

[music] >> Tiffany is in St. Louis. Hi, Tiffany.

How are you? >> Good. [music] How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so my husband and I recently split

and I filed for divorce. Oh, sorry.

>> Um, he was having an affair.

>> Um, so we have a bunch of debt and he's

currently not helping me. He was fired from his job and I lived on I live on a

very small income and I need to know how to navigate that debt.

>> What was he making at his old job?

>> 60. >> And why was he fired?

Um, he won't tell me the truth, but I think he was um on his phone and driving a truck. >> Oh, okay. All right. And um Yeah, cuz he

doesn't tell the truth a lot. That's Yeah, it's kind of a >> That's accurate. >> Yeah. Okay. And what do you make?

>> 24. >> Okay. All right. And how much debt do you all have?

>> 20,000 >> on what?

Um, car, credit cards. Um,

that's about it. >> How much on the car?

>> 10,000. >> What's the car worth?

>> Probably close to 10.

>> Okay. You're driving it or >> Yeah. Whose car is it?

>> He took the car. >> Good. Okay.

>> Is it solely in his name, Tiffany, or No. Okay. Yeah. No, both are on it.

>> Okay. All right. Um, so there's 10 grand

in credit card debt. Really? Because Okay. So, you filed for divorce. That means you've actually seen an attorney, correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And um so, first and foremost,

let's step back from the $20,000 in debt and say, okay, Tiffany is probably going

to get a whole different career to have a whole different life.

>> Okay. >> Because Tiffany can't do well in St.

Louis, Missouri on $24,000. Agreed.

>> Agreed. >> Okay. So, what do you do?

>> Um, I right now I work at a retail store. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 51. >> Okay. So, what are you planning to do?

What's your new life going to be? Your new career? Because I'm so excited for this new life for you.

>> Uh, I don't know.

>> I've always wanted to be a nurse, but I'm 51 [clears throat] and going back to school would be crazy.

>> No, wouldn't be crazy at all. Wouldn't be crazy at all. A matter of fact, nurse is a great great idea.

>> Okay, so I want you to begin to think about those things. And then what that does is it says, okay, let's pretend we're five years from today and you're making $85,000 a year as a nurse,

>> right? >> I like that plan.

>> Yes. >> Now then, how much does this $10,000 car or this $10,000 credit card matter? It doesn't matter much, >> right? >> Okay. So what I'm trying to do is to take away the stress of it cuz right now on all the other things including your broken heart heaped on top of that is this the immediacy of this that's causing the stress. Is that fair?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So >> how much is the bill each month >> for the credit card? >> On the credit cards.

>> Okay. So let's redo the credit card. The credit cards are 20. I'm sorry.

>> The car is 10. Oh, I misunderstood.

Okay. >> I No, I did it wrong. I mis I misspoke.

>> Oh, okay. >> So, but and he's supposed to give me half, which he's not because he's currently whatever money he gets is giving to somebody else.

>> Mhm. >> So, a total of I believe I pay 600 a month for everything. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Okay. >> All right. So, here's the first thing.

The first thing you do is you call your lawyer and you have him get her or him

get in touch with the other lawyer and say, "We're going to smack this guy. He

needs to start paying his half. If not, we're going to drag his butt before the judge and the judge is going to start immediately because when this settles, at most you get half of the debt,

>> right? >> Okay. And what I would recommend is you get let him take the you take the car and sell it, >> right? And then that gets rid of a bunch of your half of the debt, then you would only have $5,000 in credit card debt and he would be responsible for $10,000, >> right?

>> If you split this down the middle and he took 15,000 of credit card and you took five of credit card in the car and sold the car, that's what would happen. I like that plan. >> Will there be anything in the divorce, Tiffany? >> No, there's no money.

>> No. 401k.

>> Oh, he does. How much is in his 401k?

>> He has 60. 60. Oh, good. But

>> well, 30 of that 30 of that's yours.

Okay. >> Well, it that's true, but I believe at this point he is trying to cash it out.

>> Ah, well, I mean, let's have the judge stop this young man. This is illegal.

>> I did I called my attorney and I said, I think he's trying to cash it out and so I'm waiting to hear back from him.

>> Yeah. And he's and he's not paying these bills. And so, >> you know, here's the thing. Your husband thinks he can just walk around and do these things, but the judge is going to teach him how this really works, >> right? >> Okay. So, long-term, I mean, long-term being six months from now, this will all the wrinkles will be ironed out of this as a part of the divorce. Now, you're going to end up with some debt, but you're going to need more money to live

now and in the future to become a nurse,

>> right? >> So, you really got to start working on your career. I would say 60% of my answer to your question is let's get you making more money >> now and in the future. >> Do you have kids, Tiffany, at home?

>> No. No, they're grown. Okay.

>> They they are here though living with me, but they help. >> Okay. So, >> they're not a they're not a problem. They're an addition. >> No. No. No. >> Okay. Good. Good. All right. Yeah. And so you and you guys don't own a home?

>> No. >> Okay. All right. Good. All right. Yeah.

I think you get on your attorney and you start figuring out what Tiffany's going to be in this next chapter >> and the short term. What can I do to increase my income substantially while I

pursue the idea of what it's going to take for me to become a nurse long term, >> right? >> Okay. But yeah, you can't just keep working at 24K and this will work out.

Okay. If you had no debt, you'd still be

in a problem, >> right? >> Okay. That's what I'm that's what my point is. So, yeah. And this is not a pile of debt. You can actually get through this. But I I would just not pay any of it right now. If he's not paying it, don't pay it. It's not the end of the world. They're not going to do anything. What are they going to do? Yell? Well, we got plenty of yelling going on in this story. He has it.

>> Yeah. Let Let them pick up the car. I mean, let Junior figure out how he's going to walk to nothing. [laughter] Walk to see his girlfriend or whatever.

Right. So, I mean, it's like um >> Yeah. I I wouldn't pay a dime on any of this until you [clears throat] get the attorney straightened out and as a part of the mediation process.

>> Y I would >> take the receipts of what you have and let that go against what you owe too.

>> Yeah. But I don't think it it doesn't serve any purpose right now. You don't have enough money to pay all these bills or a good a portion of these bills even and live.

>> Mhm. >> So [clears throat] I want you to live first. Food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. If you have some money left over, we can talk about you paying some of it after you clear that with your attorney, but just trying to carry it because he won't.

Nah, don't think so. I'm going to let this come down on his head, too. And just let the let the weight build up on the whole thing. I think it'll be good for both of you. H I'm sorry. Sorry you're going through this. What a nasty situation.

Frank's in Houston. Hey, Frank. What's up?

>> Hey, Dave. Thank you for taking my call today. >> Sure. What's up?

Well, um, my wife and I had a question

for you. Uh, because we've been working off on paying off our debt and, um,

currently, um, our mortgage is at 32 thou, a little

over $32,000.

>> Mhm. >> I do have a little credit card debt. I have a personal debt of 6,000 and a for

my business, >> it's about 1,400. So, I try to keep it as low as I can. >> Mhm. >> And I had a really amazing um year last year and I'm so grateful that we've gotten to this point whether we can ask this question whether I should just pay

everything off. Um >> why wouldn't you? >> With my emergency fund >> and everything, I have about $87,000

in liquid cash. >> Okay. So, if you wrote a check today, you'd have 50 60 or you you'd have 40 something,000, right?

>> Yes. >> Why wouldn't you do that? >> And I'd be done. >> Of course you do that. >> I was going to wait till my birthday. I thought that [laughter] would be a good >> Well, just it's called an early birthday party. >> Happy birthday, Frank. >> You are too [laughter] You are too old to wait till your birthday. You need to do it now and say

happy birthday. Just wrap wrap up all the receipts and open them again at your birthday and go, "Whoopee." >> That is so funny. >> Let's walk out in the backyard. >> Go buy Go buy a nice dinner on your birthday, right? >> Go in the backyard and burn your mortgage on your [laughter] birthday.

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[music]

You know, Dave, [music] we hear uh a lot of success stories. We get we get a lot of, you know, problem calls on the show.

That's why we're here to help if you know, people have a problem, but we'll also get success stories. And I feel like in the lobby, we always get fun tidbits of people who are like, "Hey, we're on baby step seven or we just paid off our house in October." You know, you get these like little like tidbits of success. We we go out at the commercial breaks and take pictures and talk to people. That's what she said.

>> Yes. And we just had one a sweet kind young lady was talking about that she was going to go to film school and take out all these loans and then kind of binge some of our stuff and >> her teacher. >> Yes. >> Said don't here's the teacher is the hero in the story.

>> Yes. And said hey yeah let there's a different way. And she said >> watch these Dave Ramsey things. And so she said, you know, three weeks before I decided not to go and I want to be a financial adviser and I totally changed the course and it was just we were just talking in the break after we met her and we it's just like it's one of those decisions in life that everyone gets to make, you know, we all whether you're on the car >> minutes away.

>> Yeah. From like doing something different >> from a decade long problem. And her teacher, >> Way to go teacher, hello. Don't you know teachers change people's lives?

>> That's right. Y >> um said don't do that. Go watch these go watch these videos. And then she went down the rabbit hole on the Ramsay videos because there's like 80 million of them out there.

Okay. And so you you if you go down that hole, you may never get out, Alice. I'm just saying that Chester Cat is in there. Okay.

>> It's there. >> Yeah. But whether you're standing on a car lot about to sign up for loan, you know, whatever it is, you get you get a you get a moment in your life you're like, what which road am I going to take? And uh and I love hearing those those stories.

So >> well, beautiful. >> You know, and and I you know, one more time we get to say salute to teachers, >> right?

little conversation like that >> took a decade off that girl's life. I mean, it's pretty incredible. >> Yep. Awesome. Awesome. >> Good stuff. Good stuff. All right. Derek is in Tampa. Hi, Derek. How are you?

>> Uh, living and giving like no one else.

>> Love it, brother. >> Call, guys. >> Love it. How can we help? >> My wife and I are My wife and I are baby steps millionaires. Um, we are invested

in the four mutual funds. Growth, growth, and income, aggressive growth, and international. Huh?

>> And every year on December 29th, I rebalance those investments so that they're even to start the new year off.

>> Okay. >> Am I doing that right?

>> There's nothing wrong with that.

>> Should I do it more often?

>> No, I think I think once a year is more than enough. Um, you're you know, you're you're a detailed dude for sure. Um, and

u but it doesn't harm anything. Um, I

don't rebalance mine unless I look up and they're way out of balance.

>> Like if I looked up and saw, you know, 70% was in one thing or something,

>> then I would go, "Whoa, that's a little heavy over there. I need to reset that." >> But 27% down to 25%. No, I don't I don't

do that. I don't I don't fool with that.

I just don't want f But I'm not as I'm not as detailed a person as you are. I'm more big picture person. >> I'm I'm a data engineer. So yes, I am.

>> Yeah. [laughter] And so it gives you peace to do that.

>> It would cause me an ulcer to have >> the numbers. I can see Yeah. And I can see the numbers move the next year and it's kind of more exciting for me that >> that's kind of fun. Yeah. I like that part from a math nerd. I like that part.

I like saying, "Oh, look at that. And now it's out of balance again. Isn't this working?" >> A consistent trend, Eric, because you're deep in it. I mean, like the fact that you've been looking at it every year.

Do you see the do you see certain ones imbalance over you know different ones each year? >> I let me give a let me give a guess for you answer. >> International >> the international has come up short for the last eight years >> and it just started taking off and the small cap is kind of Yes. Uh what you're saying is correct.

Yep. It's it wanted Yeah. I see them have been tied together. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> Okay. >> So interesting. >> Very good.

Very good. Okay.

years. About five or six years ago, I went in I went down the rabbit hole with our uh smart vester pro who's a friend of mine and he and I are math riddle nuts. And so we pulled up a whole bunch of hypotheticals of what if you went 20 years because the international has underperformed the other four categories substantially over a long period of time. >> It's the worst of the four. Okay. And you've you've experienced that. That's why it was easy to guess. And so, um,

but but I and I was thinking about just pulling it out, but what we figured out was that it's offsetting because it runs at the inverse of some of the others.

And so when we ran the hypotheticals without it, we didn't make as much money, which was weird because the stupid thing's underperforming, but it kind of was almost like a math riddle, like I said. But anyway, we ended up leaving it in because the hypotheticals that we ran out ran it out two or three different ways over two or three different age groups and so forth and it just didn't make it made more sense to leave it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Agreed. >> Very cool, man. How old are you?

>> Uh 53 and my wife's 52.

>> Yeah. And what's your net worth?

Uh 1.3. Give me a second. 1.3 in our

retirement and our h I got a tricky answer for you there. Our house is worth about six, but we just uh we're almost done with an addition that uh 150 grand we're paying for in cash.

>> Okay. All right. And so you got about you got about $2 million net worth at 52. Did you inherit any money?

>> No. All >> right. Way to go, guy. Way to go, man.

>> Thank you. >> What do you tell people that how did you do that? What was the trick? Did you make a pile of money or did are you just smart or what? How'd you do it?

>> Uh we don't go into debt. We are People think we're crazy, but we do not go into debt. We've been we moved from a threebedroom house to a two-bedroom house and been here eight years saving to do this and people think we're crazy, but we don't go into debt and we we see

the benefits from it tremendously.

>> Yeah. And what's your household income?

>> Uh my wife retired uh 130.

>> Okay. She was a She was a special needs teacher >> and she retired at 50. >> She's doing >> she retired 48. She's doing some side jobs just to kind of >> because you don't have to work if you got $2 million. Yeah, I got it. Okay.

>> Proud of you, man. >> Well done, Derek. >> Way to go, Derek. >> Thank you, guys. >> Thanks for letting us interview you, too. [laughter] Wow. Very cool. So, if you don't know what rebalancing is, guys, we teach people to put a fourth of your income in growth, a fourth in growth in income, a fourth in international, which we were talking about was being the the one that was sucking wind, and a fourth in aggressive growth when you're doing your 401k. If

one of them grows substantially more than another during the year, in his

case he does it once a year. Um, sometimes people reset it to a fourth at

the end of the year. So you might get to the end of the year and one of them has 32%. And one of them has 18%. You know,

because one of them didn't grow much and the other one took off, right? And so what he's doing is he's smoothing it out each year and going back to 25%, moving them around inside the 401k. Doesn't cost anything to do it. um and then it restarts and then his contributions are still at a fourth and then he gets to look at it again at the end of the year because he's a great he's a data guy and he likes watching it happen >> and so forth and you know that that's a cool thing.

each. Uh because that's our portfolio mix that sh that Rachel and I use both.

My Rachel and Winston, Dave and Sharon, it's what we've suggested here for 30 years. It's what all of my retirement is set up on. But mine is not sitting at 2525 cuz I don't rebalance as often as he does. Again, I don't because I'm just not that into the details. I don't care.

It's just a big old pile of money. That's all I'm worried about, right? And so I'm that guy. But the uh but it's kind of cool that he's doing that and especially if you like all the nerdy math stuff which I actually do.

So I probably would enjoy doing it right >> because I enjoy that part of it. >> I like to see the trends and the patterns you know we're talking about over time over a decade and seeing okay which ones are continuing to not perform as much >> um or as well as others. So >> yeah. So that that's what we teach folks to do.

mutual fund has uh 90 to 200 stocks in

it. So if you've got a growth fund that has 90 to 200, a growth in income that has 90 to 200, an international that has 90 to 200, and uh an aggressive growth

that has 90 to 200. So you've then got somewhere between 4 and 800 stocks

roughly except for the overlap that that you're invested across. And that's a lot of safety because the chances of all of those as a group going down over an extended period of time is really close to zero.

Okay, that's called diversification.

When you spread it around, it's diversification. It's a big financial word. Sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher. Okay, but all that means is spread your money around. Money is like manure. It's better if it's spread. It grows things. Okay? And so spread it around. Don't put it all in one thing.

When you put it all in one thing, you increase your risk. And so if you buy Apple stock with a million dollars or you put it in 800 different stocks with a million [music] dollars, the safety factor is way different. Even though Apple is pretty stinking cool and incredible [music] and stable, but still your risk level is way up when you're in one or two stocks.

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel

Cruz, Ramsay personality, and my daughter is my co-host today. Stacy's with us in Baton Rouge. Hi, Stacy. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm doing great. Um, first time caller, but I'm a second generation Ramsay family and I'm so thankful that you took my call. >> Well, thank you. A financial peace, baby.

All right. How can we help?

>> I'll never forget cutting my parents' credit cards at 8 years old. So, >> there you go. What a memory. [laughter]

That's awesome. How can we help?

>> Well, um we uh are doing pretty well.

We're in our 30s and we made the decision whenever I got pregnant with my third baby to put my career on hold and

be a full-time mom and kind of take care of our little side hustles and >> do that whole thing, which has been really incredible. We've done that for about a year. >> Neat. >> But before I did that, >> I was volunteering and providing services for our local parish. And since I've done that, >> that has picked up significantly.

So, I'm just curious, and I can go into more detail, but should I be tithing

less because I'm giving more in other ways?

>> Um, the the overall answer is it doesn't

matter because giving is giving. And

there's there's not a an angry God

standing up there with a calculator that's saying, "I can't bless you because you missed this by $4." Okay? So

okay, >> this is the the the whole point of the tithe is to create a giving heart and a

rhythm of giving in your life,

>> not to create a burdensome rule.

>> Okay, >> that's the whole point. Okay, so once we've said that then the answer could be whatever you want to do, right? The technical the technical mathematical answer is no

because the tithe is based on a scripture in Deuteronomy and a scripture in Malachi and a scripture in two or three other places. Uh and then it's reinforced by Jesus in the New Testament for those of us that are evangelical Christians. And you said parish. So you're probably Catholic, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And so, you know, that you're reading through the scriptures and saying, "Okay, what's God's love letter to me? My dad's love letter saying that I is a good way for me to live. My heavenly father's crazy about me. He wants me to win. He wants to turn me into a generous person." Okay? And so, that's the overarching thing we want to do. Now, having said that, then the technical nitsy thing that I would go on because I'm a math nerd, not a Pharisee, okay? is just that

the tithe says to tithe on your net

increase, which would be the money that you make.

So, if you run a business, your profits,

not your gross.

Okay? If you're u if you're a wage

earner, it would be your wages. And you can argue about whether net increases before or after taxes. There's lots of good teachings on either side of that. I tithe before taxes just so when I get to

heaven if I'm wrong I'm on the good side. Right. So I mean it's [laughter] that it's that kind of but it's just funny to me. It's not I'm not I'm not I I always give more than a tithe anyway

financially. Okay. And I don't reduce it

by the amount of volunteer hours. You

know I'm I'm going to charge God $20 an hour for this volunteer out of my tithe.

You know I don't I don't do that. Um,

and it's okay if you do, but um, but I I

instead what I would do is just say, "Hey, I'm putting a lot over here, and so I'm going to put a little less over here, and God's not mad about this. He's

just trying to teach us, he's trying to teach us to be generous children."

So originally whenever I started So [clears throat] first of all I love your take because I do think that by doing what I've been doing the service I'm providing I'm attending church more because it's an in mass service.

>> Um so I'm closer literally and figuratively to God than I've ever >> and you're getting more out of it than you're giving. Yeah, >> certainly. And um they originally

offered to pay me. They pay the other people who do this um and I just said no because I had a job. Well, so do I.

>> It's up to you. Now get paid.

>> It's up to you. It It doesn't matter.

Okay. You You can whatever you want to do. You can't outgive God. So if you want to give more money or you want to give more time or both, it's okay. You

know, it's >> and don't feel guilty if you decide, hey, this is kind of turning into a part-time job. And so, yeah, if if everyone around me in the same position gets paid and they've offered it and I take a paycheck from them, that's great.

>> Or if I don't take a paycheck and I reduce my tithe by that much since I'm been offered a paycheck, that's a whole another >> wrinkle in the discussion. You could you can add that, but there's just no you can tell tell there's no guilt trip on our end. Okay. >> Yeah.

I would just trust the spirit, Stacy. Honestly, I know that's such a fickle answer sometimes, but like what what what does your gut say? Like what inside feels right? And I think that there's a level of that that's okay.

the Holy Spirit talking to you. If you think God's telling you to do it, for sure do it. Don't do what Dave said. >> Yeah.

If you feel kind of convicted one way or the other, you know, you may have a different story than someone else in your exact situation over here because they are leading somewhere else of how they're feeling, right? So, I don't know there. Yeah, it's not a it's not a legalistic thing by any means, but I think whatever makes you whatever feels right to you. And again, I think it's the selflessness versus the selfishness is one of the gifts in giving.

And so there is something about that selflessness that's beautiful and however >> that happens and that happens when you're giving your time or your money. >> Yes. All of it. So the giving and the serving um you're creating that in you already.

>> Yeah. I think you're a neat lady. Very cool.

>> Oh, >> very good stuff. >> I think you're pretty neat, too. >> Well, very [laughter] good stuff. Very good stuff. There's just no way you can mess up generosity. Okay. So I, you

know, we use tithing as a baseline and then certainly for many many years have gone way beyond the time.

>> And that's baby step seven. Live and give like no one else. So once you're there and there's um >> and as you're already finding the most fun you're ever going to have with money is giving.

>> Yeah, absolutely. And my husband is an engineer and he's kind of sickle and I think maybe that's why I like to get the >> He wanted a rule. >> He wants a formula. >> He wants a formula. His his rule was

that we do the math, of course, and take

what they would be paying us, withdraw that, carry the one, >> and [laughter] you know, that's how much we're going to give because we're giving less regardless because we're making less, right? I'm not working. >> Well, you're only giving on on your income. Yeah. You only give on your income, right? >> And then he could just multiply his flow formula times two and he'd be okay.

[laughter]

>> It's all right. It doesn't matter.

That's the point. And so, but the technical answer is the tithe.

Evangelicals particularly teach Stacy.

Uh, >> and depending on which parish I land in, which priest I'm talking to, I don't know which >> Well, tithe is tenth. You can't you can't >> I know, but but Catholic I mean like% our friend Pat Lion is a raving Catholic. He's one of my favorites. And um he says, "I'm an evangelical Catholic." So, um which you know what he means is he believes the Bible. Okay, that's what he means. And so, uh, uh, we love Pat. And so, it's a wonderful,

we've had great discussions around these kinds of things in those settings.

>> Yeah. And the whole point of it is taking care of your local church, taking and hopefully they are the ones taking care of the city, the town you are. It's the widows and the orphans. >> It is.

It's an extension. And the priests, which is the pastors or literally the priests. Yeah. But the uh you know the pastor, make sure your pastors are being taken care of and the widows and the orphans, the single moms are being taken care of in your [music] church.

And you ought to be tithing in your local church.

[music]

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[sighs and gasps] Jolene is with us in Toronto. Hi Jolene, how are you?

>> Hi Dave, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure, what's up?

>> Okay, so I am single. I have no dependence, no heirs. I'm completely debtree and by October 2028, I will have

owned my home outright. I've spent my

entire adult life intentionally saving and working to be 100% debtree. I am a

planner, so I think about when I want to downsize and I'm pretty much stuck between two options. I could buy a condo

with cash and struggle I'm struggling

with HOA fees which could equate to 18

to 30,000 a year and likely rising or I

could rent and knowingly deplete my savings over time. So, since I don't have anyone to leave money to and I plan to spend my money during my lifetime, how do I think about the choice between owning a condo with a really high HOA fee versus renting and spending down my

assets?

>> H, very interesting.

Okay. Um, >> high HOA fee. >> Yeah. Why is it mandatory that the condo

have a high HOA fee? Why are we stuck

with that as the only option?

>> It's not the only option.

>> Why don't we get a condo that doesn't have a higheration?

>> I'm sorry.

>> I think about when preservation no longer matters. How do I optimize?

>> Yeah, I understand. But I'm just saying um anytime I have two options and neither one of them are fun, it means I don't have enough options is what I mean. Yeah. And so that's why I ask about why don't we find a condo with a low HOA fee? Uh because HOA fees if

assume let's assume for a second it's not always true. It's not true often enough that the HO is managed accurately, then the HOA fee should be covering actual costs of operating the

condo, which would be roof replacement,

uh, parking lot management, uh, you

know, uh, maintenance issues, uh, taxes,

insurance on the exterior shells. You carry your own insurance on the interior shells I assume in Canada like we do in the states and so on.

>> The taxes would be additional. Taxes are additional addition, you know.

[clears throat] So the only way an HOA fee would skyrocket is mismanagement or

maintenance skyrocketed or one of the costs associated with operating the condo skyrocketed. Right.

>> Right. So here's the thing. If you rented a condo in that exact same thing and the HOA fee was accurate, your rent would cover the HOA fee. So, you're paying the HOA fee either way.

>> Correct.

I guess the question comes down to philosophically, would I own outright if I could pay for it outright or do I revert back to renting?

>> Yes, I would own outright. And the reason is this. You're stabilizing the largest line item in your budget into old age.

Because rent, >> but then my largest asset is trapped into a home. >> Yeah. So what? You're living in it.

>> I die with I die with all my assets trapped into a home instead of depleting my savings. >> You want to You want to You want to rent and travel and spend it all?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I don't There's There's not a >> I have no errors. >> It's not evil to do that. Uh the problem is you don't sound that old. How old are you?

49. >> Yeah. I didn't think you were that old. Okay. So, I mean, we're talking about a 40year plan. We're talking about a 40-year plan here. You know how much rent's going to go up in 40 years?

>> Yeah. >> That scares the crap out of me. >> It's the unknown. I think that is a little nerve-wracking for your home, right? I think for your shelter, for your place of protection and where you're going to be, you know what I mean? Like there's something about having no risk in that that gives peace

that if you want to go travel and do other things, uh it may not be as big and luxurious because to your point, a lot of your money's tied up in the home, but but at least there's like but at least there's the stability of knowing

that if you, you know, get hurt, something happens to you >> that your place is paid for. Do you know what I mean? Your home. >> What the condo cost?

>> If I were to downsize, I would pay it for a cash. So it would basically be the cost of my home. >> What would be what be equal to? How much money would the condo cost?

>> 600 to 800,000.

>> And how much do you have in your nest egg total?

>> I have 850 in investments locked. I have my home which is about 800. Okay.

>> And I have liquid of about 400. So my total net is around 2 million.

>> Okay. Well, what I would do is buy the condo for cash and ride that for 20 years and then remake this decision.

>> It's a good idea.

If you run out of your money and you're like, >> you're not going to run out of money [laughter] in 20 years >> cuz you're not even going to spend your income that this is creating.

I don't you just talking to you, you're you're not going to spend $200,000 a year on on travel. >> She might. >> Are you? >> Jolene sounds fun. >> No, I haven't traveled. No, I haven't. I mean, what are you going to spend $200,000? >> What are you going to do to consume $200,000 a year cuz you've never done that in your life?

>> That's I think that's the philosophical question of at what point do I stop saving and start living >> now? >> How much do you make now, Jolene?

>> I make between two and 300 a year.

>> And how how are you going to retire anytime soon or are you just going to >> I I'm so concerned about not having revenue that I don't want to retire.

>> I I'm trying to calculate >> I I would read >> I'm trying to calculate what my house Yeah. >> I So I would I would buy a $600,000 condo. I would pay cash for it and you'll be sitting on a million to a million half dollars making 300k. You can do anything you want for the next 20 years and you can work as much of that or as little of that as you want.

You can slow down a little bit and go travel or go whatever it is.

the nest egg, without consuming it.

>> The goose is going to lay without touching the goose. The goose is going to lay 150,000 nest eggs. Okay? And so,

>> so I should stop saving when my 850 investment becomes 1.2 or something,

>> whatever. You just run your number out, whatever you want it to be. But the po the point is that you're going to have a hard time consuming all of this money even if you

pay cash for a condo because the money's going to be making money almost as fast as you're spending it.

>> So that said, doesn't it do we care if it's 30,000 a year in HOA fees or rent?

Then do I need to own? Yes, I would own because it stabilizes cuz rent goes up every year and it destabilizes this whole freaking plan.

>> You're you're 49. Think about what rent was when you were nine.

>> I know. >> I know. And that's what you're talking about here. So, when you're 90, that's what we're talking about. >> And you don't want to be paying rent at 90. This plan sucks.

Renting longterm is not a good idea because it destabilizes cuz it goes up every year more than the cost of operating the condo does >> and the condo goes up in value too and you can always liquidate it and decide to consume the whole deal in your last 25 years if you have if you have the luxury of knowing when that is. >> I think that's a great plan. I don't think you need to make a a decision right now for the next 40 years of your life. Cut that in half in 20.

month and you're thinking, [laughter] >> I predict you will sell the condo before 60 for one or two or three reasons. You know, >> the downsize. >> Every time I think I'm going to live in a house till I die, I live too long. So, there you go.

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Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Aiden in Alabama. My fiance and I have been practicing budgeting as we prepare for marriage. We're both debtree except for my house and once we combine finances, we'll have extra money left each month.

She likes shopping while I like to spend money on golf trips and don't buy many clothes. Would it make sense to set up a separate fun money or separate fund money accounts from our joint account

with a set amount deposited each month for us to spend however we want. I worry

that when I take a solo trip, I might feel guilty about spending money on things that I enjoy that she doesn't really care about.

>> Yes. >> Welcome to marriage, Aiden.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

>> That's going to happen. Yes, you're going to spend things that she doesn't care about. She's going to spend money on things that you don't care about. But that's why together you decide, hey,

here's how much money a month we're going to spend that we each get to spend. And you get to do it guiltfree.

there's no worry because it's a set amount. Now, if you go over that amount, then yeah, there's going to be some frustration of, hey, we said this amount and you're going over it, but that's a whole other discussion. >> If you want to open is he he's saying separate set up a separate account for fund money only to deposit the money from the budget, the joint budget and the joint account into a fund money account. You could do that or you could just open up a syncing do a syncing fund in every dollar.

>> Well, or but it's separate fund money accounts. So she has a fun money account and hers is fine. >> Nothing wrong with that. >> Separate checking.

It's that feels like check different checking accounts. Do a lot of money. No. And it's in the budget.

>> Okay. If you get $200 for your fund money and Winston gets $200 for his fund money. >> Where do you put that money? >> It's all in our checking.

>> Okay. Yeah. And but how do you keep up with it's his or >> every dollar? >> Okay.

You syncing fund. >> No, not a scing fund. Just when the transaction comes in and I get my nails done, I drag it into the Rachel line item. >> Yeah.

But what if you don't spend the whole $200 in a month? Well, that's a bigger discussion of how what would you do in any category >> saving up for a golf trip? >> In any category. Well, in that case, yeah.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. And just put money aside. >> That's what I'm saying. That's the same thing. I mean, the only question is whether you just How do you do the accounting? >> Mhm. >> To separate it and keep it separate so that he doesn't feel like he's spending her money or she doesn't feel like he's spending her. So, you do it with a scing fund if it goes over the portion of a month. Or you could have a separate account just for the trip.

>> Just for the fun money. Yeah, that's okay. I >> I don't know why it feels legalistic. I don't know. I feel legalistic. That feels like separate accounts to me. >> Okay. All right. I don't care. It >> as long as you don't do it as long as everybody has access to it and you can see 100% >> and all of that. >> 100%. Yeah. >> But like different line items because even in different savings like high yield savings, you can have different line items within it. Yeah.

>> Within the actual account.

>> Um. >> Yeah. >> So, I wonder if you could do it that way too. But >> but I Yeah. I think a syncing fund in every dollar is a better plan. Yeah, >> actually because you don't get into the

>> the spirit of it that's bothering you.

>> It's the this is my money over here.

>> Yeah, >> this is my money and and so it it is >> well it has been allocated to >> it's been allocated but it starts to feel um >> well let me give you an example. Okay, that that fixes it. Okay. So, like when we first started doing this, you were a little kid and your mother would be

would play the uh southern bell martyr

and spend all of the clothing money on the kids.

And of course, I'm buying clothing money at to for work, right? Period. So, she ends up with no clothing.

>> Yeah. >> So, I ended up to get her to stop doing that, we were using envelopes with >> cash. Yeah. Yeah, >> we had a kids clothing envelope and a Sharon's clothing envelope and she had to spend the Sharon money on Sharon.

>> No excuse cuz she would spend it all on y'all and I'll just wear the drapes.

>> You know, I'll make something out of the drapes O'Hara, right?

>> I'll take the drapes down and it'll be okay. And you know, like we there's no reason to be a martyr. We have the money. >> Sound of Music. That's Maria on Sound of Music. She took the drapes down from the captain. And >> they did. They did. And they did it in Sound and Yeah. both both places.

>> That's where Sound of Music got it. But uh anyway, yeah, still the uh man that

the So the important thing in this whole discussion, Aiden, >> is that you're not even married and you're already both concentrating on this. That means you're going to win.

>> Yeah. And there's a little bit of me. I kind of like the exposure. I think it's good practice for yourself to spend money on yourself and let your spouse see it. Cuz one of those things I might feel guilty spending money on things that you should enjoy. And I'm like, you have to learn about that in marriage. Like there is like there's a part when you kind of just hide that over here so I don't have to feel guilty.

>> That's where I'm like run into that.

Like go straight into that emotion.

Okay. >> Let her see what you're spending. Let her be like I think that was probably kind of stupid and silly or whatever she's going to say to you. Hopefully she doesn't say that. Um, >> I don't understand you spend that much money to put a very small white ball in a very small hole.

>> I don't understand. Yeah, that >> golf. I don't understand that. Yes. >> I don't understand purses that cost more than a car. So, yeah, but it's Yeah, it's >> these are great discussions to have.

>> I think it's good to kind of face it head on. >> You need another gun as a as a Oh my gosh, as a newlywed couple, I think

there's like a level of exposure there that's good to live in. And she may feel silly about buying something that you don't think, but I think that's good discussion to have like talk about those things. Yeah. >> Versus avoiding it and putting it in separate accounts so you don't have to feel. >> Okay. That's that's what was tickling your spirit. I see it now. Was hiding it over there. He's ducking. He was ducking the emotion. >> I Yes. I like everything in the lights.

Bringing the lights. >> Yes. Yes. That's good. But the great news and the overall thing is Aiden, you guys are going to win because the number of people that are smart enough to do what you guys are doing right now and actually have these discussions before marriage, boom, boom, boom. You're going to be huge. Y'all are going to be amazing. You're going to have a great marriage. You're going to be very wealthy. The these are indicators that are just incredible for you. Way to go.

Jillian's in Charlotte. Hey Jillian, what's up?

>> Hi Dave and Rachel.

>> Hi.

I have a question about paying for college. >> Cool.

>> I have the answers to all your questions. So, do you want to ask me or do you want >> No. What are you asking? Tell me what First I need to know the question about how to pay for college now

or in the future. >> How to pay how to navigate the next four years of my life. >> Gotcha. How old are your kiddos and how many?

>> Um, we have three children. Our daughter

graduated from UT in 23. So, one down,

two to go. And she is married, so she's

off of our payroll. >> Good. Okay. So, we got two to deal with.

>> And they are 17 and 18.

>> Okay. How did you pay for college for the first one?

>> Um, out of my nose and around my elbow

and you know. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> well, and out of state, Jillian, right?

out of state. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Do you you don't have you don't have the money for these other two. Is that what you're saying?

>> Right. But um I have seven seven grand

in a 529, but we didn't have that or use

any for her college. and she came out,

you know, her her degree cost about 208

and she had $18,000 in debt, which she's

almost got that. >> What's her degree in? >> She went to UT State.

>> That's not $118,000.

Just fouryear tuition.

>> Yeah. 20 something,000.

>> 52 a year >> for what? >> It's 52 per year at UT out of state.

University of Tennessee is $52,000 a year out of state. They don't want you people apparently. [laughter] >> Or they do. They want her money >> because it's it's $12,000 a year for instate. >> Did she do nurse? Did she do >> um Okay. >> They are really good to their instate.

Tennessee is very good to the Tennessee.

>> Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's move on.

We're gonna run out of time. Let's move.

Let's move on. We got a 17 and an 18y old. They're going in state cuz you don't have the money.

>> Well, >> and they're going to a community college for the first two years cuz you don't have the money.

>> No, they're one of them is finishing his first year at the community college and he's going to Appalachin State. The other one is >> How much is Appalachian State this year?

>> Appalachin I mean all in housing, room,

board, tuition, fees, and books is about 28. Okay, so here's the thing. The thing

that causes people to not be able to pay for college is not college. It's college choice. You choose a college that fits your budget. The kid works. You take scholarships. You stay instate and you choose a college that fits your budget.

And that's how you pay for college.

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[music]

Okay, time to circle back. Uh, we have a

best not bestselling, that's not right.

An award. >> No, no, no, no, no. I just I just said it during the break. I I said let's don't.

>> No, no, no, no, no. I'm not talking about that. >> Okay. >> Um, God, y'all y'all are right in a family discussion here, but um No.

The uh we have a documentary, Rachel, called >> Okay. called uh that that the public knows about. Okay. [laughter] And that I can talk about since I own it.

And um yeah, it's called Borrowed Future and it's award-winning and you can watch it for free. And it's talking about the student loan debacle and what's going on.

on this ridiculous student loan crisis,

and it is ridiculous. There's $1.8 trillion dollar in student loan debt now.

And Congress talks about it being bad.

And everybody talks about it being bad, but they keep doing it.

If it's so bad you have to forgive it, but you keep making the loans, that's intellectually dishonest. Okay? And so

anyway, all of that is in that documentary and you can watch it. But the thing that the core thing comes down to our last caller, okay? How do you pay

for college?

If you list out five things that impact

whether you can pay for college,

the thing that takes up 70% 75%

of the space and the other four take up the 25% of the space is college choice

because nothing in our society has a

wider spectrum of cost than colleges.

Okay. So, an example being that instate

tuition for the University of Tennessee, I said 12,000. We looked it up during the break, is 13,000. I missed it. Okay.

And out of state tuition is not 52,000.

Out of state tuition is 32,000, >> but with room and board, >> but with room and board allin, it was about 50,000. And the girl went to school four years and she had 200,000 out of pocket. So, that's what the mom said. So, the mom's numbers were right, but it was all in with room and board and everything else, right? And that's pretty hefty on those numbers.

But anyway, so you have to ask yourself, what am I getting for what I'm spending?

Okay, so what do you get when you go to a college?

You get the college experience.

Whoopdedoopy.

You get to say you went to that school, which there's no correlation between what school you go to and what success you have. No piece of research ever has ever said a certain school is more successful than another. None. A lot of people believe it, but it's not true.

There's no data to back it up. Okay? So,

if you want to go to a super expensive, fancy fancy school that has a big name on it and you have the money, it's fine.

I'm not mad at you. Don't tell me that you have a higher probability of being successful because there's no data to back up your statement.

So what are you getting if you get

basically the same knowledge base? So I've been to the University of North Carolina. I graduated from the University of Tennessee.

Both are fine academic institutions.

If you graduate from either one of them, we will hire you at Ramsey.

Okay? you went to Alabama. You'll have to kind of squeeze through, but it's fine. >> Yeah, there you go. That's funny. I There's an Alabama lady sitting out here. Yeah. [laughter] So, uh, and Bobb's back questionable about that stuff, but yeah, Florida for sure. But yeah, but um, anyway, so you see what I'm saying? So, the point is in instead of if you could pay 13,000 or you can pay 32,000 for the same thing,

why would you do that?

and they're literally 300 miles, 200

miles apart. The only thing that there

she's closer to the University of Tennessee than we are in Nashville when

where she's calling from. But she had to go across the state line and ding ding ding ding ding tripled the cost.

Why would you do that

if you're short on money? Now, if you have the money, that's fine. Like, I've

got a friend who sent his kid to Alabama, but he went to Alabama and he's got plenty of money. And by the way, Alabama has actually really good out of state tuition. They like out of state people. Um, so I can make a real funny comment about that, but I'm not. But anyway, the uh uh just keep moving. But the point is where you go to school, you only do that if

you have the freaking money. In most

states now, you can go to a community college free or almost free for the first two years.

So don't spend $76,000

in student loan debt a year

to go to Vanderbilt.

That's stupid.

Now, if you again, if your mama's rich and she gonna write you a check, I'm okay if you want to go. >> Scholarship, grant, whatever. Yes, >> I'm okay if you want to go to Vanderbilt. I if you want to go, I don't care. But don't go in debt to that and

tell me you got a bargain. You did not get a bargain.

So, how in the world can children go to

school and go to school in a place they can afford? and you make wise choices based on the [snorts] value that you're getting for what you're spending. And that is huge. And folks, that Rachel,

you said this in the documentary, and I'll never forget it because I thought it was really wise. You said it's more of a parenting problem than it is a student loan problem.

>> Yeah. Well, because the 18-year-olds, their frontal cortex of their brain isn't even fully formed, you know? So, I'm like, they're still kids. I mean, yes, they're >> somebody's going to look at them and say, "No, this is stupid." >> They don't know.

And and I do think the repercussions of what happens in your life because we sit in these chairs, you know, every day taking calls from people that have 38,000 100,000 of student loan debt and they're, you know, they're working their way out. >> 104,000 in a parent plus loan cuz mom and dad borrowed the money to facilitate the stupidity. >> That was in the first hour. Yeah.

So, it's just it is the 18-year-old doesn't know, doesn't understand the full consequences and repercussions of this decision that they're making at 18. And that's what's so frustrating about it, right? I'm like, if you're >> they can't buy beer, but they can borrow 100 grand. >> Yes.

Seriously. And if they go and try to get a mortgage or something, I'm like, no. No one would give them that much money ever. >> The banks wouldn't give them that much money.

The government wasn't so stupid that it guaranteed it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's the thing.

>> So, it is. >> So, I mean, that this is the deal. So, moms and dads, people are wait. >> Listen, here's the deal.

You go $12,000 a year, you live at home for the first two years, and you go to community college, and then you need $12,000 a year. That's $24,000.

Okay. Two years in a community college transfer. Plan your plan your curriculum out to where it's all all the credits transfer and all of it meshes up and works in the syllabus. It's not rocket surgery. If you can't do that, you probably can't graduate from college anyway. So, you need to do this. Okay?

Lay out the plan. Execute the freaking plan. And if you lived at home the entire time, you could do it for $24,000. You can make that driving Uber

while you're in school. You can make that delivering pizza, mowing grass while you're in school. Go to Home Depot and buy a leaf blower. Rich people are afraid of leaves. They will hire you to blow their leaves. Okay, you can do this. You can go to school working if

you keep your stinking cost down.

>> Retail. Work retail. Yeah, >> you can keep your cost down and get through. Well, you can't work while you're in school. Everybody listening to me right now worked while they were in school.

Except the three people that said that just now. You know, seriously, you

everybody worked. I worked while I was in school like an animal cuz the only I had to have money. I didn't mean money.

We were so broke we couldn't pay attention.

I went out on the first date with my wife. I had a $117 in my checking account. I mean, come on people. This is

this is this is college. What do you think this is? The Taj Mahal. >> Yeah. But what's happened is it's it's the the debt has been so normalized that you live off of it. You don't have to work, right? Because it's all paid for.

It's all right there. So it it is a you >> stinking colleges have a lazy river.

>> No, they don't. >> Yes, they do. One does. You can float down the river. No way. >> Yes, it does. With a inner tube just like you're at the park like you're at Six Flags. Promise you. I don't >> think so. I Yeah, we have been it to

some campuses and some stuff and you're like, "Wow, >> it's just you guys have lost your minds.

It's all financed by state funded, you know, and and so guys, choose a school

you can afford

>> and get your kid knowledge. The degree is worthless. >> And if you're a parent, >> currency is knowledge >> in high school. Just knowledge is Yeah.

Knowledge is what matters. >> Replay this clip if they're [music] a senior in high school cuz school choice it's it's coming around the corner for these seniors if they haven't already done early acceptance. [music] So >> yeah. Well, you don't have to go just cuz you got accepted. >> That's true.

>> I know somebody like that.

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Tom is

in Seattle. Hey Tom, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up, >> Dave? I just need your opinion

if you two would be so kind to give it on an upcoming rather sizable purchase I have planned. >> Okay. >> Um, my 11 year or I'm sorry, my 11 months

old pup needs an operation that's going to run about 7,000 bucks.

And so my wife and I have mutually decided to cancel our vacation this year and we're going to we're going to get her taken care of. Um

all my friends and neighbors that I've I've told about this just look at me and shake their heads as if they don't agree. You know what what do you think?

Am I missing something? I I cannot see not doing this.

>> Okay.

Um, >> I'd say a couple things, Tom. Do you guys have the 7,000?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And is the surgery is there a guarantee

>> at the end of this? >> No, there's there's no guarantee, but

the guarantee without it she will go lame fairly quickly.

>> Is your Is it a Is it a bulldog?

>> No. >> Okay. >> No, she's a Chihuahua mix.

>> Okay. I was going to say our our George camel just spent >> Yeah. a sizable amount more than I think what you're about to spend on his and his ended up in a wheelchair. His his dog really Yeah, he's in a wheelchair right now. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, >> we've been we've been picking on George about it. So, but um Oh, >> yeah. But, uh good naturaturedly. We love George in doubt, but [clears throat] he he's he's fun about it. But, um >> so, okay, first thing is um the Ramsies are

unbelievable dog lovers. Okay. So, my um

my uh opinion is skewed. I mean,

laughingly, I can say if it was a cat, no way, right? I'm kidding. But no, [laughter] so I'm kid. That's a joke.

Okay. But um but the uh uh but yeah, I

love my little dog. I walk three miles with her in the morning. And um you know

the thing I run into with people on this question and I've had this question over 30 years several times or something like it is the first thing is are we doing

this for the animal and is it going to be in pain? Is this selfish on the

human's part?

>> So for instance I know a lady that put I know a lady that put her dog through four years of chemo. That was unfair to the dog.

>> Uhhuh. >> In my opinion, okay? She was doing that

cuz she didn't want to lose the dog. But the poor dog suffered. Okay. And you

know that that's harsh as far as I'm concerned. I I wouldn't do that to a dog. I love And but I I cry every single

time like a 10-year-old girl when we put a dog down. >> When we put ours down, you cried.

>> I did. [laughter] I came over and visited yours the day before she went before Nala went to heaven. now. And all dogs do go to heaven. There's no question. So, it's a theological fact.

But the uh uh but so, you know, that's

not the question. The the the thing is number one is the dog. Are you doing this for you or for the dog? Cuz I I could fall into the category if I'm not real careful.

I I don't want I don't want to lose my dog, you know? I mean, I love them. And so, I'll do anything. And but that's not fair to the dog.

And because these are dogs, they're not humans. And so it's a different it's a different measure as far as I'm concerned. You ask our opinion.

to be in pain because you are selfish as a human to keep it around. If the dog walks with a limp and hurts the rest of its life because you did this and you didn't have the courage to make a call, that's not fair to the dog. But if this if the dog is healthy after this and you get 10 good years with the pup, you know, or whatever after this because of this, the pup has a great life after that and you got the $7,000. No, I don't think you're crazy then.

Nope. Sorry. You couldn't afford the dog?

>> Nope. I've got the I've got the money and uh yeah, just we're going to do it.

>> Yeah. You see what I'm saying though?

But yeah, I mean I understand that cuz it depends on where your neighbor grew up, right? My wife grew up on the farm

and let me tell you 100% chance that dog

ain't going to make it. Okay.

>> She's got she's not does not have this.

>> They have Yeah. >> Yeah. She She's more She does not dog crazy like I am. Right. So this $7,000

Nope. Nope. Not happening. I just >> I spent a crazy amount on Maggie's hips.

You're going >> retrieve. But I did it in spite of your mother. I mean, you know. Yeah.

[laughter] >> But that and I got and that dog had 10 12 good years. >> You know, we did spend some money on that dog. That was a golden retriever had bad hips. >> Okay. And as a pup, we had to do the hips and so it was it was expensive. But um and it was a pain in the butt. But the dog was a great one of the best dogs I ever had. So anyway, all that to say,

yeah, but um >> you're not crazy. Just make sure you grew up if you as long as you're not hurt. As long as you're not being a selfish immature person and you're doing this and harming the animal, you know what I'm saying? >> No.

No. >> And and so this is for all the people that are trying that are going to hate me after this. So just get in line. All you cat people, get in line.

Right behind the dog people that get in line, behind the credit card people to get in line.

>> Yeah. There is a there's a spectrum of what people's threshold is.

>> Yeah. >> For an animal, a pet, right? Um financially. >> Yeah. And your mother's is much lower because animals come and go on. >> And George, I think, is even past you, Dave. I think our George camel. >> Yeah. George George is George is over our line. Yeah. He's over my line.

>> George will do anything. Yeah.

>> For those dogs. >> Yeah. And um >> so it's where you fall. Personal value.

Where you want to put your money is make sure you have the money. >> Yeah. Don't and don't and and be be a kind person that doesn't >> cause an animal to hurt for your selfish because you're selfishly weak >> and can't >> uh take go through the pain of doing the right thing, >> right? >> You know, it it's just um that's a lack

of courage on the human's part and that's unfair to the animal. That's inhumane as far as I'm concerned.

>> Um but and I see people do that because they're just like, "Oh, well, you can't get rid of whatever." And it's um we get we get cuz we all get so attached to them. Oh my gosh. I like my dog more than I like a lot of people. I mean, you know, it's really I do. We do get attached to them. So, >> Dave, big dog, small dog.

>> I like them all. I really do. I like dogs. And Jade Jade lost Jade lost hers a few weeks ago. >> I know. >> She'd had him for 12 years or something.

Big old Rottweiler. >> They're >> and they had to put him down. >> They're part of the family. >> He just couldn't he couldn't get up one morning. >> Yeah. >> It's awful. And Yeah. It's just >> dad's dog now is a little What is Bella?

>> She's a bear dog. >> No, she's not a bear dog. She's >> She's legendary. Yeah, they this this breed keeps away bears and I think the legend is true cuz I've not seen a bear since I got her. So, I'm pretty sure.

Yeah, she's 12 pounds. >> Just know we all here. Bella, Bella,

[laughter] Bella, where's Bella? Like, Dad, she's she's in the other room. Just go get her. Go get her. [laughter] >> They gave me a hard time. >> Bella. >> The whole family. The whole family on vacation. This is on vacation. >> On vacation. Just >> No, that's not true. >> It's not true. But yeah, you know, it's funny. >> We love our dogs, though. >> We are dogs. >> You're not crazy. You're not crazy.

>> All three Ramsay kids have a dog and we have a dog and we love our dogs. And all three of us cry when we put them down.

And >> that's the way it is. And it's part of You're not You're not unless something really h bad happens to you, you're going to outlive them regardless. So, you better get better get that as part of the program.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

>> Heat. Heat.

>> [music]

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Noel is in San Antonio. Hi Noel. How are

you? >> Hello. I'm doing good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes. Um I currently have a car note

that's uh $1,200.

And I'm looking to at first I was I wanted to get a single family home, but

now that I've been doing research and um looking into getting uh wealth um I was thinking on a multi- family home.

>> I was just wondering if it's a if I'm at a good uh point in my life to get it right now or should I wait on it?

>> You should wait. You should get out. You should get your debts paid off. either get rid of the car or pay the car off.

That car payment is out of control.

>> Is it $1,200 a month, Noah? Or the whole note is 1,200?

>> No, it's 1,200 a month.

>> How old are you? >> Yeah, I'm 24.

>> Yeah. How much do you make a year?

>> Uh 60, but I just got a job offering. Um

and um they said I I could be up in there in the in the 80s.

>> Yeah. And And what do you owe on this car, sir? >> I owe 80. 80.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, let me let me as kindly as I

possibly can say that's insanity.

>> Yes, it is. Trust me, I did not want to get this vehicle. I got >> Yes, you did. You got the vehicle and you're 24 and you were sober and you signed the note. So, yes, you did want to get it. But yes, you do need to get rid of it. >> Yes. Now, >> I I I tried calling them trying to see if I could trade it in maybe for something older because um my parents

basically forced me to get it because they said I should get something reliable since I have two kids. And before this vehicle, I was having a lot of car problems and >> Okay. >> You you have a lot of excuses is what you have. You're a 24 year old man. Your parents don't force you to do anything.

>> Yeah. There's some strong ling. There's some There's definitely um putting the

blame of the car on other people, Noel.

Just so you hear us. I mean, my parents forced me. I had to These are pretty extreme statements that you didn't have to do any of this. And you could get a reliable car for $10,000.

>> Yeah. >> For your two kids. So, you you need need to sell this car. >> Yeah. >> And you don't need to trade it in on something slightly older. You need a 10.

>> How did you get the financing for this, though? If you make 60, how did they how did they finance you an $80,000 car?

>> Um, well, first I had traded in an Equinox I had and the >> was it negative value rolled over?

>> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. >> And then my grandma helped me co-signed also. >> Oh, they loaned her the money.

>> Your poor grandmother.

>> Yeah. >> Oh my gosh.

>> You got to get out of this car. Oh man, I'm so scared for her right now.

No, I really am. This is not going to go well, sir. What do you think this car is actually worth?

>> I I called today saying uh what it's worth, and they said it's about 40.

>> And you were how far upside down on the Equinox?

>> I think it was uh 30, I believe.

>> Okay. And so this has already lost 10,000. And you bought it how long ago?

Uh, I'd say like eight months ago. >> Oh my gosh, honey.

Yeah. No, you don't need to be talking about buying any kind of house. You have a extreme car crisis on your hands. And

your grandmother is at risk. I'm very

afraid for her right now. And I really, really, really want you guys to take six jobs and start paying extra on this car.

Pretend like you have $40,000 in credit card debt. You have a $40,000 car debt.

Um, yeah. The finance manager at this dealership should be put in jail.

>> Horrible. So horrible.

>> They took an old lady and put her on as a co-signer. >> Yeah, they did with a guy making this guy making equity. So stupid.

>> This is This is It's not illegal, but

it's legalized fraud. This is ridiculous. >> At who knows what interest rate.

>> Yeah. Well, it's 1,200 bucks. Yeah. Oh my god. And he makes 60 grand. So honey.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, Noel, I would be acting like I make 40 and if you get this extra 80, which is amazing, get this car paid off in a year. Like, like you have some upside on this, but this needs to be your number one focus. >> Yeah. Clear the car. >> Do not act like 80 if you get this car.

>> Clear the car. For God's sakes, honey, take care of your grandmother by clearing the car because it's going to land back in her lap cuz it's going to go sideways if you don't straighten it up.

And so far, your track record on cars is pretty lousy.

So, and don't go back over to that dealership for anything ever. Just drive by and wave at them

>> and go on Kelly Blue Book and just see a private sale and just I'm just curious if it's a little bit more, right? If you can have if there's any any more relief, a couple of thousand. There's any way you could sell it for 50 and get a hooptie, tell your parents to jump in the creek [laughter] and start paying off the other 40 or 30

so your grandmother doesn't get screwed over here cuz this thing's going down in value every stinking day you own it and it's adding to the problem. So, you need to get rid of it and but you're going to have to cover the difference somewhere.

And I don't know how your poor grandmother.

Oh, I'm so pissed right now at the

dealer, at the mom and dad. I'm sad for

the grandmother and I'm sad for Noel.

And yet they all were adults and all made decisions.

Wow.

See, grandmas, attention, grandmothers,

100% of the time you cosign, you're

stupid.

100. Oh, he's a good little boy. He'll pay it. Honey, he's dumber than a rock.

He can't pay the bill.

>> Not you, Noel. Nothing in general.

>> Seriously, this is You cannot pay the freaking bill. I don't care how sweet he is. I don't care if he's out of your DNA. He cannot pay the bill. That's why they called you, old lady.

Don't cosign for your grandkids. You're

not a blessing. You're a curse. You helped them get trapped.

Don't do that. Grandparents and parents,

quit telling people to buy crap they can't afford cuz your grandbabies are riding in it. Unless you're writing a freaking check, shut up.

Oh my gosh, you people. This is

ridiculous.

You're killing me. These poor people, man. And then you go in there and this car finance guy is smoking crack. Who

makes this loan?

Who makes this loan but a crackhead?

Nobody.

OH MY GOD. YOU LOAN $80,000 to an old

lady and a kid that DON'T MAKE ENOUGH TO PAY THE BILL, you crackhead, you ought to be

put in jail. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. OH MY

GOSH.

SEE, this is what happens. This is the problem. You guys get victimized by these stinking car companies, by these student loans. You get victimized by City Bank cuz Samuel L. Jackson who has a little red wagon carrying his money around cuz he made it all trying to sell you City Bank. What's in your wallet? It ain't Samuel Jackson's money. I can tell you that. So you guys got to quit doing this stuff, man. You got to quit lining up like sheep to the slaughter. You just walk in, I'll take I'll take $150,000

student loan and yeah, I got to get my cash back. Samuel, thank you. And that

guy that lives in the City Bank lobby, he don't live in the City Bank lobby, people. That's an actor. Hello. He lives in a mansion that he paid for by being an actor on City Bank commercials with your money. Hello. Quit believing this crap, y'all. You're getting screwed by all these people. The borrower is slave to the lender. Quit lining up and tell me I was forced to buy. You weren't forced to do squat. You're like a grown

person and stuff. Act like it. Quit this

people. Noel, I'm not just yelling at you, honey. I'm yelling at you. I'm yelling at everybody that's like you that's out there listening and they're all going, "Good God, I want I want you to be free, honey. I'm glad you called here and we'll help you. We'll put you on hold. I'm going to put you with one of our coaches for free since I picked on you so hard." And but honey, my god,

do some math.

Jeez, this is just

how in the world somebody find that

finance manager and put him in jail, please, before he acts again.

>> Just glad you haven't picked on Jennifer Gardner. >> Oh, I need to. I can do hair extensions, but then I'd have to get you. >> Sweet, sweet Jennifer Gardner.

>> [music]

>> Heat. [music] Heat.

All

right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsay trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseyolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseyolutions.com/.

[music]

[music] Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Click the show notes and say hit the link says, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" Free quiz get you on track, show you what you're doing. We'll help you help you develop a personalized plan right quick. Ashley is with us in

Columbus, Ohio. On the other end of the spectrum, one of our Baby Steps millionaires, congratulations, Ashley.

What's your net worth?

>> 1.16 million, Dave. 1.16.

Okay, cool. Break that down for me a little bit. What's the uh categories like 401k and so forth and how much?

>> Yeah, so in our house equity, we have 420,000.

>> In investments, which include retirement, our 529 plan, we have

570,000.

>> Personal assets/collectibles, we have 120,000. And then we have about 50,000 in cash. >> Good. Well done. How old are you?

>> I'm 30. MY HUSBAND'S 29.

>> WOW. YOU'RE YOUNG MILLIONAIRES.

>> How much of this did you inherit?

>> So, we were blessed that my husband's parents had a 529 plan for him that was

not used up. We inherited $100,000.

That's now um a school fund for our daughter and we got that this past winter time. So, we were just over the millionaire mark before we inherited that. But we are blessed that we were able to have that from his parents.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. Great. But the point being mathematically you did not become a millionaire because of inherited money. >> Correct. We were both >> So how did you do it?

>> By 30. >> Um we're very boring. So we I thankfully found you relatively young. Um I was >> Wait a minute. That's not boring.

[laughter] >> I [clears throat] like >> um so I found you when I was graduating.

I realized I had a bunch of student loan debt and I was trying to find a plan of how to pay that off. I found y'all and I've just s like followed your plan ever since. So, uh, we're very boring. We invest. We are big savers actually, both of us. We kind of break the norm. >> Do you have any fun? >> Fun being >> Yes, we do. >> What do you [laughter] do that's what do you do that's fun?

>> We travel a lot. We buy things that we want when we want them. >> What's the coolest place you've traveled to? >> The coolest place we've traveled to? Um, I would say we did a joint trip both to Paris and then to Ireland. Um, Paris.

>> That doesn't sound like boring.

>> Yeah, that's fun. >> No. Uh, we got to do Paris um when I was

pregnant with our first and then we got to go to Ireland to pick up um a great gift for one of my husband's employees which was such a blessing and a really fun time. >> Wow. Very cool. Very cool. So, man, so

you have had fun. You've had a life. But by boring, I think you just mean you're intentional. >> Correct. Well, nothing nothing flashy.

You're just investing is pretty flashy.

>> No, no. I'm saying like from a wealth building perspective. They're not like, "Oh, we're going to go do all this like all this." It's just like uh we just invest and that's, you know, the main thing, which is great. >> Yeah. We live we live below our means.

That's something that we've always done.

Um I'd never used credit cards growing up. Neither did my husband. >> What was your what's been your income through this period of time?

So, our lowest or worst income, I was making about $37,000 and my husband was making about 30. We weren't married at the time, so we were separate. And then our best income year was probably this past year before I become a stay-at-home mom at $325,000.

>> Oh, nice. >> And you became millionaires on that by age 30. Yeah. Wow.

>> Correct. >> Very, very cool. Very cool. What are your careers?

My husband's in aviation management and I'm a geologist who's working to become a stay at home mom in the next couple months. Got it. >> That's cool. What do you do as a geologist? >> I play in the dirt. That's what I like to say. >> Yeah, that's cool. How many kids do you have? >> We have one baby girl and a baby boy on the way. >> Good for you. >> So great, Ashley. That's awesome. >> Congratulations. So proud for y'all.

Very, very, very well done. So, uh, if we got a 20some out there listening, what would what would you tell them?

I would say my husband's advice and he's very adamant about this is to live below your means and don't try to be fancy or clever. Be boring. Do the slow things.

Invest. Save for your future. Uh don't

try to outsmart the system. There is no outsmarting it. Do the boring things as I said before. Um and then my advice

would be I was very thankful that I found you young. I worked seven days a week to pay off my loans and save money.

I always thought of it when I was in debt as that I had negative money and that really motivated me to be responsible and work as hard as I could when I was young. Now that I have babies, you know, I want to be home with them and there's more excuses to not work hard. And thankfully, we're in a position where we don't have I don't have to work seven days a week, but I worked hard young so that I can now reap the reward a little bit older um and spend time with my family. >> You lived like no one else and now you can live and give like no one else.

it's almost like a plan.

>> I like it. >> It's awesome, Ashley. Well done. >> Well done. Very well done, Ashley.

Excellent. Excellent. What kind of car do you drive?

>> I drive a Lexus SUV and my husband drives a BMW SUV.

>> What year?

>> My husband's, I believe, is a 2021.

Mine's a 20 a 2005.

>> Oh, you drive a junker. Okay.

>> We're working on upgrading. That will be when baby number two comes. >> Yeah. You need to That car sucks. Yeah, [laughter] >> I don't mind what I drive though.

>> I know you I can tell you it doesn't bother you a bit. Yeah, >> it's a great car. Lexuses will run forever. >> Yeah, apparently this one has. Yeah.

>> Almost got 300,000 miles on it.

>> It's a 21-y old vehicle. It's a fine vehicle. >> Good for you, Ashley. >> Yeah. Good for you. So proud of you.

It's excellent. The number of times that somebody's driving a Toyota uh when they're millionaires, the first one to two million is just scary to me. I don't know what it is about Toyotas, but they're there. They're everywhere, you know. And of course, Lexus is a Toyota in case you didn't know, folks. But okay, very cool. Congratulations, Ashley. You're the great American hero, man. Baby steps millionaire. Started doing our stuff when they're baby children. I mean, 20 years old, right?

And just like game on and clean up the student loan mess that they had and work like a crazy person. Now, now she's got now she doesn't have to ask the question, can I afford to stay at home?

>> The question doesn't come up. >> Such a gift. Yep. >> And so he they can easily live on his income. They've already got a $1 million net worth by age 30.

Which by the way, you can do just a quick predictions. It's fairly easy to say they're if they stay just generally on track, it's probably 20 or 25 million when they're 65. That's about where that'll land. So, um, not too shabby.

Well done. Uh, it's called changing the old family tree right there. So, mom and dad left a hundred grand.

>> Well, and they both grew up >> Ashley. Nope. They both grew up with uh

they both said we both you know never had credit cards. We you know what I mean? So the household environment >> that you're raising your family in it that matters more than taught. Rachel Cruz says yes >> they're watching. >> Yeah. They're going to do what you do and so financial peace babies do matter.

Yeah. It's a big deal. And so she grew up learning this stuff obviously and um it's the benefit of having for me of having been doing this now for 35 plus years is that I am getting to see second and even third generation of people that have been following this stuff and the results are are astronomical with compound interest and with wisdom parlayed over that many decades uh how

what you start to see happen. And so, I mean, if you think about Rachel was uh born in April, we filed bankruptcy in

September and she's sitting here, you know, I mean, that's that that that's the same thing, you know, in a way. And so, it's it's the principles. This is what the principles that we're teaching God's ways of handling money do because scripture is God's love letter to you.

It's your dad that loves you. He's saying, "Do it this Okay. And 100% of the time, by the way, he's right. And if you disagree with him, 100% of the time, you're what known as what's wrong. Okay?

So, you're you're just off. This is not going to work. All right? And so, even

if you're not a person of faith, it doesn't matter. This stuff is just the freaking truth. It works. Okay? Every

stinking time. And then when you parlay

it out over an extended period of time, you get Ashley. >> And those things are working hard and being diligent, staying away from debt.

Every time debt is mentioned in scripture, it's in a negative fashion.

>> Exactly. >> Saving. >> Yep. >> Being generous. >> Always. >> Um looking at what you're spending, knowing what you have, and managing it well. >> Yep. >> It's all of it. I mean, it's common sense, right? That's why the gods and grandmas tagline is so true.

>> Yeah, it is. >> But in a world that that again, she kept saying boring, boring, boring. And I understand what she's saying because when you go and scroll, you know, where a lot of people are finding their financial advice on social and YouTube and all of it, there's exciting things over here that you can do this and Airbnb and you can do. I mean, it's just it is like uh it's a lot of distraction.

And so to just invest and pay off your house in today's terms, that is considered boring. But that's the thing that is tried and true. [music] It's the tortoise. It is just it always it works.

It works decade after [music] decade.

>> [music]

>> When you're stuck in a cycle with your money, try, fail, try again, it can feel like you're losing your mind. But you're not alone, and you're not crazy. That's why I wrote my brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money. It turns out money is emotional. And no one's been talking about feelings like fear, shame, or guilt keeping you stuck until now.

I'm going to tell you about the real fight and show you how to win. Get your copy today at ramiesolutions.com/store.

That's ramseyolutions.com/store.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Psalm 111:10.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. All who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise. [music] L. David Marquette said, "One of the things that limits our learning is our belief that we already know something."

That's fun. Jennifer's in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Uh, I'm married and I have two children and our family has started the baby step.

>> And we just [snorts] finished baby step two.

Um, the reason I'm calling is because our we we lost a family member, unfortunately.

>> And that [clears throat] person uh left us $500,000.

>> Wow.

>> Okay. And the person told us verbally that they wanted it to go to our children. And so we are going to honor that.

So my question is, should I

>> They should have left it to your children.

Well, didn't and we're going to honor that. So, they'll get it anyway.

>> Mhm. >> They'll get it anyway. So, my question is, do I use some of that money to move us through the baby steps because the kids will end up getting everything we own anyway, or do I just keep that separate and say, "No, I don't touch that." >> I would I would walk it right through the baby steps because that's the way your kids end up getting the most bang for their buck out of the 500k.

Assuming you leave it all to them anyway. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Because because you're you're past baby step two, Jennifer, right? So it would be baby step three. What would what would be a fully funded emergency fund for you guys? How much out of the 500 >> would that be? >> Um I would say 20,000 out of the 500.

>> And what do you owe on your home?

>> 240. >> Okay. And so you still got 250,000 bucks. Roughly 240,000 bucks left.

And um >> uh give or take. and that's to be invested and of course then the home's going to go up in value which is an investment and kids are going to be just fine with that. I absolutely would do that. Now it is incumbent upon you then because you took a leap forward regardless of how you took the leap forward.

You know where the money came from. Okay, let's just say you got a bonus check for that. I would still tell you exactly the same thing is my point.

that you permanently invest for the rest of your lives what would have been a house payment plus more money >> so that you know this this becomes millions and millions and millions of dollars in the future.

>> Okay. So you would apply it to the baby steps. >> Yes. because that's going to be the best deal for your kids >> as long as with with the asterct that you guys are continue to be responsible and continue to invest for all of this to move forward, right?

>> Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. We're following the baby steps and I just didn't know >> um morally is what I'm saying. If I should I mean [laughter] I hear what you're saying. Yeah. morally, if the kids are going to get it anyway, how can we maximize the money for the kids?

>> Correct. >> The baby steps. >> How old are your kids, Jennifer?

>> Nine and 13. >> Okay. Yeah.

>> Now, the the the other thing the other thing is this. Okay. Um, I'll just

sidebar for a second. I mean, you're fresh in the middle of all this and you've got all the emotion around and everything. Who who who passed away?

>> A grandparent. >> Okay. All right. And so, let me tell you what the grandparent did not mean.

Okay. >> They did not mean that one of your children has all kinds of problems later

and they're addicted to heroin and so you hand them a million dollars which would cause them to overdose and die.

>> That is not what the grandmother meant.

And so you're not morally obligated to

violate common sense

>> with this inheritance process. So, I'm just going to extrapolate this way out into the future somewhere. Okay.

>> You're talking about like in your nine-year-old is 49 >> and they're misbehaving and you're going to fund that with his grandmother's money because granny said 50 years ago that that was a good idea. No, that's not what she meant.

>> Right. >> She wanted to be a blessing is what she meant. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. And being a blessing is not giving money to someone that's misbehaving. So, I'm I'm I'm not going to become a control freak over it. I'm not saying that. But I don't want this verbal obligation to go crazy and turn you into

some kind of codependent thing 40 years from now either. Um, and I've seen that happen. I don't think that's going to happen, but you're trying to be you're being very careful to do what Granny said, and that's a good thing, but let's just understand Granny's heart was to be a blessing. It wasn't to uh the thing.

So, good good question. We appreciate you calling. Very good.

Rachel, that goes back to the thing that we've taught for years and it's good to remind everybody um that money

doesn't fix things, it magnifies things.

>> So, it magnifies the good and it magnifies the bad. So, today that money

is a lot of money and it magnifies good because they're working a good plan.

She's got a good heart. She's trying to be honorable to her grandmother.

>> Yeah. and so on. And all of that's good.

So that good is being magnified by this.

And my point is is that sometimes you get out there a few years, there's some bad things going on >> decades later is what you're saying. >> Decades later. And if you throw money at bad situations, it magnifies that too.

>> Yes. >> So whatever you do, money's not good.

Money's not bad. It magnifies what's already there >> in every one of us. The bad things in every one of us, the good things in every one of us. >> And so if you're a giver and you're generous, you get money. You become a philanthropist. You know, I if you've got uh a temper problem and you get money, you become a complete raaholic and a bully, right? If you've got and so

money magnifies, it makes you more of what you already >> that up. Yeah. >> It makes you more of what you already are. >> That's right. >> And so, and that's going to be true of granny's money 40 years from today.

>> Yeah. >> And it's true of granny's money today.

>> And so, it's a good question by >> and it's a d and it's a it's a I mean, I would almost put the word dangerous tool in the world. Like you have to be very very careful with it. I mean, we just talking about scripture less. There's as many warnings about wealth. Yes.

>> And you know what I mean? Like it's a it's a you got to be careful with this stuff because it'll mess with you. Um so the the working on the character of who you are >> is as big of a deal as the money that you're making in your investments because >> it's interesting that the things that can bring you the greatest blessings also have the power. >> That's right.

It's a double-edged sword, right? I mean, you put anything in there. >> Money, sex, power, >> fame, anything. Yes, it's a it's a double-edged sword.

>> Yeah, you got to be careful.

>> So, you just got to decide how you're going to walk from that point forward.

So, Jennifer, that's a beautiful question, and you're really wise to ask it. You ask it in a very good way, and it's very, very, very, very dialed in.

So, in the book, The Legacy Journey, um,

which is probably my worst selling book or one of them, um, but it's one of my favorite >> that was more than enough. It's one of my favorite more than enough. By far the worst. Yeah. [laughter] It was It wasn't even close to enough. But um but the uh

uh Legacy Journey, we talk a lot about wealth and through the lens of scripture. It's the only book I did that's uniquely Christian. If you're not a Christian and you read it, you're going, "Who is this guy?" But yeah, because it's it's all scripture and it's all laid out exactly. The the warnings on wealth are all in there. And we talk about is it okay to be wealthy >> from a spiritual standpoint? And um part

of that is is that those of us that are people of faith that are believers, we understand we don't own it.

We're just managing it. And so I just manage more than somebody else manages.

That's all wealth is. And so, but if you if you actually feel if you take the heart position of I own it, then that's where wealth really can start to screw with you from a spiritual perspective, start to mess you up. And so, but certainly we know that rich people are all not going to hell. That is not a scriptural thing.

That's a toxic version. It's people trying to teach theology on Tik Tok. Never get your theology from Tik Tok. That's a bad idea.

Matter of fact, you probably shouldn't get anything from Tik Tok, including us. But we're there. And so, um, yeah.

if you want to learn more about that kind of stuff and look at the lens of that of is it okay? Because sometimes people are worried about becoming wealthy uh like they did something wrong because there's a portion of our culture that wants to yell at you, the socialists and so forth that you did something wrong and you didn't do anything wrong. You just helped a lot of people. That's the only way you get money.

It's the only way it works. So good show Rachel. >> Well done. >> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

>> [music]

>> Heat. Heat.

[music]

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## 77. Get in the Driver’s Seat of Your Own Life | April 28, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I am

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney and we'll be taking your calls and the lines are open so give us a call at88255225.

All right, first up we're going to Little Rock, Arkansas and we have Dylan on the line. Hi Dylan.

>> Hi. How are you? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Well, um I'm being kind of in a

situation and I'm trying to figure out how to dig myself out of a hole.

>> All right. So, what's going on?

>> So, um I'm 28. You know, I'm married,

got uh two kids, a 5-year-old and a three-year-old. Um about 3 years ago, we

were kind of in a situation. Um we were

renting a house. It was just disgusting.

It was mold infested. Um our second was

on the way and we decided to buy a house

and it was not really a great time to buy, but we didn't really have an option. Um, I don't feel like we've

really bought out of our means. It's just been a lot of things happening leading into it. >> Okay. >> And then attacking stuff on top of it.

Um, bought the house for about 149,000.

Um, we were doing good. My son got really sick, started, you know, developing seizures.

>> Um, we fought that for several weeks.

Destroyed the nest egg that I had put back for us. Um, missing work, trying to stay caught up on bills.

Um, we ended up falling behind on the mortgage and I had to refinance it for a higher interest rate.

>> Um, and a longer term and every year the

the payments just steadily gone up and up and up. Um, we've got some vehicle

payments and some other loans and stuff like that that have just kind of tacked on top of it and we're not necessarily like extremely behind. I'm I'm running

about a month behind right now, but I can't seem to get caught up >> to get ahead. Yeah. Yeah. You sound

tired and the situation which you laid out to us, it's a lot. There's you have a lot >> uh that you guys are juggling. Okay. So, how much are you making um per year?

>> So, me, I'm making right around 82,000 a

year. Okay. Um, my wife just started a new job and roughly what she's making

supposed to be around 35,000 a year, but she just started. >> Okay. >> And she gets paid once a month and we don't even know what a full paycheck of hers is going to look like just yet.

>> Okay. So, so she's not received a paycheck from that yet. That's what you're saying. Okay. Um, okay. So,

household income per month that's going to hit your account. I know you don't know from your wife, but if you know what she's making, I mean, so you guys probably are going to hit around 10K, would you say?

>> Not quite. I'm I'm bringing home roughly

$4,400 a month after taxes. And

>> 44, >> but you make 82, >> right? So that's with a they uh give us

a tool bonus that's like $1,600 um after taxes and health insurance and

everything. I'm supposed to be bringing home around 1,500 before taxes and I'm bringing home right at about 1,100 to,200. So between 44 and I guess maybe

a little bit more >> per week. Did you get a big tax refund?

>> No. >> In April. Okay. Are you are they pulling

anything out for retirement?

>> Uh I did put a stop on it. I was putting in around 9%. Um, but then I found out

the company doesn't start matching until after the first year. So I was like, well, I could use the money now. So I put a stop to it and um, so now I'm just

>> Yeah. >> bringing home whatever I get after taxes.

>> Okay. I would double check. That's >> There's something missing here. You're missing about $20,000.

>> Yeah, that feels super low. That's like half of your income going to taxes and healthcare. And I don't think that's the case. >> So I would So I would double check that.

Um, I would talk to your HR department.

I mean, I I would I would just I would look through I mean, you just filed taxes and we just passed tax season, so you should know. But, um, but for you guys, so it's basically like if she brings home two grand a month, 6,400.

So, what do you So, debt, um, let's talk

about the cars. You said you have two car payments. How much do you owe on the cars? >> Yeah. Um, her car we owe uh, right around 12 to 13,000. I'm not 100% cuz

it's been kind of her thing. Um, I let

her take care of her car, she pays the insurance, and then pretty much everything else just falls on me. I take care of everything else. Um, my truck

payment uh was kind of stupid. We

started talking about it. I needed a truck for the things that I was doing on a little side job that I was trying to help a friend with. So, I bought a truck and uh >> for a side job for your friends.

>> You're such a good friend, Dylan.

>> How How much does this truck cost?

>> Um $45,000.

>> God almighty, >> Dylan. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it was at the time I felt like I could afford it. >> You could You can't. >> Okay. How much could you get for it today if you just went and sold it and you guys became a onecar family?

>> What if you just went crazy? What could you get for it? I would say maybe 28,000 because I went in upside down and then bought an extended warranty on top of it.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. All right. Well, I I

>> So, um Okay. So, you got the two car loans. Keep going. What What do you guys have in credit card debt?

>> Um I don't really have any credit card debt. I got about $800. Does your wife?

>> No. As far as I'm aware.

>> Okay. So, that's another that's another flag here. Dylan, you guys aren't you you you don't really know what's going on in your household >> between you and her. The two adults.

No, no, Dylan. The two adults >> that are supposed to be in charge of taking care of a household and these two kids. You guys don't know what's going on. Like you don't know what's going on with each other.

You can't >> you tell you said that you're w that's her responsibility. The car and she just takes care of that. And then I'm over and I'm like >> are you two roommates? Like >> no.

And and and part of that honestly though, Dylan, part of the synergy is that you guys are so scattered.

situation. You're not coming together and talking about this. That's that's the that's one of the benefits of getting married is you have two adults sitting in the room with two different brains that you actually get to lean on each other and talk. and you guys are making decisions in vacuums and you're making them urgently in in in desperate situations which usually always equals

bad financial decisions. And so >> cuz bro, a a a wife with one ounce of

care about her husband would have said, "Please don't buy a truck that you can't afford >> for your friend buddy's neighbor's roommates's dog." Like, you know what I mean?

And it it's kind of my own fault. Like I it's not your fault. I can honestly say it's her like really um

>> pushing it to be this way. It's been the way that I was raised. >> All right. The way you were raised sucks. Okay. So, let's do this.

>> Starting today, you sit down with your wife and you apologize and say, "I've wronged you. I have left you out in the cold. I've tried to do all this myself and I'm doing a bad job and I keep digging us a deeper and deeper and deeper hole. And until you take control,

like the only thing that happened to you in this is that your kid had seizures.

And God bless anybody who's going through their kid being sick. You guys didn't have to buy a house. You didn't have to buy a truck. You didn't have to just make your wife like you deal with this on your own. You've got to You don't even know what's on your own paycheck, brother. You have to get in the driver's seat of your own life.

Yeah, I'm I'm going to own this thing.

>> So stay on the line and Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you guys a year of every dollar cuz our goal for you, the very first step, Dylan, together tonight, sit down with your wife, open up that app, start plugging some numbers in, and use some of the content in there to start creating a step, which are the baby steps. You need to get a $1,000 emergency fund, and then you guys need to start attacking this debt. It's eating up your income. You have to get out of debt, and you do nothing with your life.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Up next, we have Andy in Min Minneapolis. Hey Andy, welcome to the show. Oh. Uh oh, hold on.

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Hi. Absolutely. How can we help today?

I am recently divorced. I left a 15-year

abusive marriage and I'm just figuring out my own finances for the first time in my adult life. And my question is kind of about my kids, though. I have 12year-olds who are incredible entrepreneurs, started their first business 5 years ago, are starting additional ones this year, and they're doing well financially. And I'm wondering how to teach them and guide them about finances when I am so new to this myself.

>> What are they doing?

>> Well, a few years ago they started a beverage business and they sell beverages at events and concerts and

like vendor shows. And now one is starting a 3D printing business and one is starting um a science facts YouTube

and channel and app and stuff.

>> Gosh. Good for them, Andy.

>> I'm trying to get my kids to pick up dog poop in the backyard. This is incredible. >> Well, they don't do that either, but I'm excited about it. >> Oh my gosh. Okay. So, are you asking

specifically like how they manage the money they're making or is it just more an overall question of hey, like what >> the money that they're making because they understand business expenses and budgeting, but they are earning thousands of dollars and I don't know how to guide them other than just >> put it in a bank account and don't make tons of big purchases. I just haven't had the capacity to >> learn more to teach them.

>> Totally. Gosh, so impressive. Um, well,

you know, the way I look at it with my kids, I have an 11-year-old. She's my oldest. And so, we're starting to talk a little bit more beyond what I'm about to tell you, but I think just starting with the basics of them practicing the three

big buckets of money, which is giving, saving, and spending. And when you think about it as adults, that's basically all we can do with money, right? you can be more sophisticated within those buckets, but like that's >> that's it. Um, and so being able to do

all three, >> if you're an adult and you can do all three, well, you're a pretty well-rounded person with money. I would say you have a pretty healthy grasp on it. It's when people get to the extremes that it becomes difficult, right? they spend everything they make and they're broke or they save everything and they become hoarders and they're not fun enjoyable people to be around cuz they're just obsessed with you know keeping money like it um they're not generous people that way so I think the

>> teaching them and let letting them experience all three is going to be big and so I mean we take kind of the old school approach um which is what we tell adults to do is you know give some of your money have a 10% like hey whatever you make 10% of it needs to go somewhere there. And that can be at a local church if you're there. It could be at something that they're passionate about, some type of nonprofit, whatever it looks like. But >> but I think, you know, cultivating the spirit of one of the first things we do is we're givers.

Like we give and >> there's something in that habit that I think is so beautiful. Um I think saving is really big. I mean, they're getting I mean they'll be 16 here, you know, before you know it. And so I'm like, I don't know if there's a really big purchase that they can be working towards, like a car, >> and I don't know if they save for half, you match half.

I don't know what that looks like, but that could be that could be a really good tangible goal.

Which would be like a bigger purchase like a car >> and then letting them enjoy some of it and then letting, you know, having a percentage that they enjoy some of it. I mean, they are 12, you know, and they're making great money. So if there's something fun they want to buy, >> um, then that's great, too, right? So I think not being legalistic about it, but I think the three rhythms of that give, save, spend, >> I think is going to be really big.

And and that's more the tactical side of money, but there's also >> the emotional side of that contentment and that, you know what I mean? Like there's the emotional side of money.

>> And and I I'll just tell you, I wouldn't tell you to do something I don't do in my own house. My 10-year-old, she actually works a lot. Um, she's always

looking for ways to make more money. And my I have a a recent 16-year-old who since he was 12, he's been saving up for the the truck he just bought.

>> And so, um, but we just put it in a regular checking. I mean, regular savings account. >> And even for my son, my wife connected it to a till account. I don't even know what that is, but that's how she pays him and puts it in there. And um but we

don't mess with high yield savings accounts or any of that kind of stuff for for our kids.

>> When you say they make thousands, >> another >> Do they make 3,000 or they make

>> Okay. Well, it's been I think 8,000 each

overalls like for the past few years, but the one has like 5,000. And he asked me about investment accounts the other day. I'm like, I have no idea. So the line the line the standard line is the biggest investment you can make right now is in you.

>> And so let's save up. We're going to pay cash for a car. We're going to put some money away for schooling if we want to end up doing that. If you want to start this as if you graduate from high school and you want decide you want to go full-time into entrepreneurship, you're going to need some seed money.

And so the line that I use in my house is the the biggest investment you can make right now is not in market returns. It's in you.

>> Yeah. Because for a lot of investing it is for a long-term it's a long-term mindset like you know especially retirement investing you're going to touch it till you're 59 right and a 12-year-old doesn't even be thinking about that where the math is fun and for them to understand logically. My parents did that. They taught us about mutual like this is what this can do.

>> But the reality is you're going to need cash on hand to buy a car at 16. You're going to need cash for college. You're going to need cash. My parents even told me when you graduate college and that transition from college to the real world, whether you need first month's rent, last month's rent for your first apartment, you got to buy, you know, furniture.

Like there there is in the next 10 years of his life or her life, >> they're going to need cash and majority of people don't even have that. And so they end up, you know, in the negative as they start adulthood. So having that there where compound interest and everything, they're going to be fine if they start investing at 2122, right?

so I really, >> in my mind, I wouldn't because I wouldn't even put money in like, oh, buy a stock here and watch it grow because we don't even teach single stocks. Like I wouldn't even get in the habit of that. So I would have a tangible thing that he that they're saving for um that they're invested in. And usually the car is it for most teenagers.

Uh, which is great. And then, hey, where can we continue to um enjoy some of this and give some of it? And Andy, I'll say to you, I mean, kudos to you. We always say more is caught than taught, which is so true.

in your situation, what you've just walked through, as you just flippantly kind of said it at the beginning, like I left I left an abusive marriage and I'm on my own. I'm like, you you are incredible.

has the humility to learn and to ask and

be curious about all of this. Like they're going to learn so much from you too without you even saying a word. So your example already of what you set for them is beautiful. >> Yeah.

and and bring them in. Bring them into light bill conversations and bring them in. Like if you want to do a basic run through of your budget, your your kids are pretty businesssavvy. Show them what stuff cost.

And you'll see your kids start to turn the lights off. And you'll see your kids looking at like they'll they'll bicker with each other like it's at 74. Let's move it to 76 so we can say like you'll see that kind of stuff happening. But let them watch you figure it out.

time, but a couple of times a year, I'll hand my tithing check to one of my kids.

I want them to see that check >> and they'll look at me all wideeyed and I'll say, "It's not our money." Right?

And they're like, "Oh, oh, yeah, yeah." Right? But that I don't like showing anybody that stuff, but that's how they're going to learn, "Oh, my my mom and my dad put their money where their mouth is." >> Right? So, bring them into some of those conversations. are you like with the kids like do I share income and all?

>> My kids don't know how much money I make. >> Um I don't give them like cuz and I don't tell them I my son knows that I've got a college account. He does not know how much money's in that account because it's not his cuz he'll start he'll start spending it. >> Oh dad. >> Um but but I um I do show them how much

stuff costs >> and that that is that's been really eye

opening for everybody.

>> And my daughter's 10. She's starting to come into those conversations with us.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. I I think it is I mean that that 12, 13, 14, they can start to grasp things and if they know how much it takes >> to run a household and be an adult from car insurance to health insurance, life insurance to the life, Netflix, Disney,

all these things that we have bundled together, here's how much this is. Yeah.

My son the other day just said, "Hey dad, I think I'm going to drop out of high school right now, get a job at McDonald's and start like I just want to start making money and whatever." And he had factored in rent. And I was like, "Okay, what about this and this and light bill?" And he just goes, "All right, I'll stay in school." Right?

>> But it's just it's it's it's part of their growth process. But you aren't less than just because you don't have this stuff all dialed in. Let them watch mom learn. And that'll be the greatest gift you could give them.

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Well, that is so normal for so many people because normal is broke. And listen, you don't have to live that way.

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Do not live broke. Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's head to Phoenix and we have Lauren on the line. And hi Lauren, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Okay, so my husband and I started the Every Dollar app a couple months ago. Um he started listening to you guys and then got me on board. Um and we ended up

selling our truck and um taking out a

personal loan for the balance and getting about 50,000 knocked off of our debt. Like go

>> Yeah. So, we were super proud of that.

Um, and now we are actually evaluating if we should sell our house and use the profit to wipe out the rest of our debt and just get a clean slate, rent for a couple months, build up an actual down payment the right way. Um, and just be

able to kind of fasttrack getting debtree.

So, um, we had a significant amount of debt. So, I can kind of list it out. our our monthly income is 11,700 roughly. Um

he's flat rate mechanic and I'm a nail tech, so it varies. >> Okay. >> Um but that's about what we're bringing in a month. And then we've got um his

student loan balance is 3,650.

Um we've got a credit card for 3600.

Um our tax balance for this year is 5277.

Um the personal loan for the truck balance ended up being 7500.

>> Okay. >> Um we've got a solar loan attached to the house for 31,300

which we're hoping will be assumed by the next owner. Um that would be the goal. And then uh my mil net balance or

my student loan balance is about 47,000.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. And >> you had me I was like, "Oh, you're going to be able to do this." And then it's like, oh, 707 more,000 $75,000.

>> But you guys, before tax and stuff, you guys are running what? Probably 130.

>> Um, I think so. My husband would know that better than you. >> Yeah. 13140. >> Do you have little ones?

>> Yes, we have Well, we have three. We have 15, um, 12, and 10 year olds. So,

>> Okay. And how much is your mortgage a month?

>> A lot. It is $3,32.

And we in two years have only knocked down 10 grand on principal on our house.

>> Sure. >> So we're like paying interest.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's not it's not it's not crazy though. Um >> in relation to your uh income. I thought you were going to say it was going to be like a $5,000 mortgage or $6,000

mortgage. So it's it's it's um so yeah, your house I don't think Lauren is the problem. Um, I mean genuinely like we say 25% and you guys are a little bit above that, but I think >> um I think over time you guys will get within that range pretty quickly.

>> Um, >> okay. >> What's what's the opportunity? >> Where we're at >> Go ahead. >> I'm sorry. >> I think where we're at is we still owe $412,000 on this house that we're not

necessarily wanting to like our kids are getting older. They're getting into their teens and we're kind of thinking about like the next 5 to 10 years. Do we want to put another 400,000 into this house that we don't need >> this much space, you know, either? So, it's like to me to wipe the debt out and start over. >> Lauren, that's the question. Like, if if you don't love this house and you don't want to live there and y'all want to downsize, but that's awesome.

>> My gut tells the house. It's just a lot of houses for no more kids in a few years. Oh, >> I I part of me thinks that the grind is

what y'all need. >> Mhm. Okay.

>> Um that that just getting up every day

and figuring out, hey, can he take can he go work in somebody else's shop on Saturdays and can he and I and all this is hard because y'all have kids entering in those ages when you got a 15-year-old, you start counting the days, right? Like we got three years and then he's gone, right? >> And so I get all of that. Um, if you told me, you know what, dude, we're going to sell this house anyway when when one of our kids leaves and we're going to just going to be four of us, then yeah, sure, put on the market and sell it.

Especially if that wipes out all of your debts and whatever.

>> But maybe not. Maybe not. Um, but >> well, we assumed it. That's how we got it.

>> We bought the house and it it's kind of a thing in the in our area. Um, >> but I'm not worried about that. I'm more worried about when I spoke to a realtor this morning, she said, "We're probably not going to get close to what we would need to in order to cover realtor fees and closing costs because it's apparently a buyer market right now." And so our >> How long have you been in the house? >> Profit was >> We've only been here for two years in this house.

>> Oh, so you you you don't have equity in it. >> Yeah, >> not much.

>> She said we could probably She said we could probably sell it for 460 to 470 and we owe 412. So that would pretty much you know. >> Okay. So Lauren, that would be the tradeoff. So listen, if you if you guys decided to do it do that now. Um you

wouldn't get you would you make a ton?

What would you make on because you said you would barely cover all the fees, the real fees and everything. So you really wouldn't make a ton to pay off the present debt. It would be more of a future of saying, "Oh, we only have to to pay off a $300,000 mortgage versus a $450." And you guys feel like you can swallow that easier, right? stomach that easier. Um, so what I would what I would

suggest though is I think that's a that's a long-term problem that you're seeing and feeling that actually may be relieved once you're debtree from consumer debt.

>> Yeah. And and you're going to have to turn around and get rent a house for $2,500 for five people minimum, right?

Probably $3,000. So >> yeah, that would save us a little bit.

>> Yeah, it would save you a little bit, but I I don't think that's the big rock here. The big rock. I mean, if you told me you were going to be able to save 3,000 bucks a month or you had $100,000 in equity, that would make sense. But this isn't moving your position anywhere. It's it's >> in fact, it's making your life more complicated >> because you guys have about six grand left after you pay the mortgage. Where is that where is all that going?

>> Um, we just re like I said, we just started the every dollar out. We were eating our money as they >> were.

Yeah. So, >> and we've gotten better on it. But, >> yeah. >> So, what I would say is what's crazy about when you look all this out and I just m I did a rough map real quick of a calendar for you all.

But I'm like, if you could find three grand a month, that's finding in every dollar the expenses, which actually probably 2,000 of it could be sitting in there that you don't know about when you just actually shore everything up and say we're not spending anything. And then you guys go make some extra cash on the side. And in that example, it would just be an extra thousand bucks of you working a little bit more or him working, you know, a Saturday or two a month.

knocked out, your credit card debt knocked out, >> and his student loan debt all by August.

Like, if you threw a three grand at this stuff every single month, >> and then you're down to the 7500 um and you can knock that out in two months, right? And then you're looking at the solar and yours student loan debt which will be those will take longer for sure. But I'm just saying a lot of these ankle biter stuff if you guys really really >> tighten up and say hey we are going to spend nothing.

>> We are going to work extra and we're going to put three to four grand more than what we're doing today on this debt. You know you you know two two and

a half years you guys are out.

>> You know something we do in my house.

Okay. Um, I actually part of my kids uh

I don't use the word allowance, but part of the things we pay them for is each kid does one meal a week.

>> And so it's tough if you're working nail tech all day, you're you're exhausted, your husband's underneath machines all day. That that's have your you got three kids. Have each one of them be responsible for a meal. Pay them each 10 bucks a week for cooking or whatever.

They get to earn a little tiny little bit of money, but y'all save a jillion dollar by not eating out all the time.

>> Yeah, we've done a lot better this month, but yeah, it's still pretty significant. Like, we need to cut it out completely. It's just kind of We're trying to ease into it so we don't >> Don't ease into it. Cannonball.

Cannonball, baby. >> For sure. Yeah. And And you know what, Lauren? I would I would just I would grind it out because you guys if you guys had $300,000 of equity and you were like we want to downsize or something.

You know, you can make it make sense, but right now it doesn't because you don't have the equity, which you guys are barely going to even just break even on a problem. Again, that is so far in the future. I would fix this stuff in two 2 and 1/2 years. Um and then you

guys look up 5 years owning the home. If there's some equity and you still want to downsize, then I would make that move.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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>> All right. Next up is Andrew in Salt Lake City. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

>> So, I'm 22 years old and I make $120,000

a year and I have been since August, but I've been in my career for about two and a half years now. Um, and I kind of have a car question. So, I currently drive or I used to drive an older Toyota Tacoma.

Um, now I had that and then I had a 24

Corolla hybrid. Um, so it's kind of like my commuter. I drive about 25 to 30,000 miles a year. Um, but I ended up selling

my truck because it ended up getting into an accident. I sold it for 500 bucks more than I bought it for. Um, and

I was kind of wondering, you know, if I could be able to get into maybe another truck or a 4Runner type vehicle just cuz I got three dogs. I like to go camping, fishing a lot. That's like what I my main hobby. Um, I have about 25,000 in

savings and 25,000 in investments, 401k,

Roth IRA. Um, yeah. Kind of curious what

I would be able to do.

>> And so, what are you currently driving right now?

>> A Corolla hybrid. >> Okay, >> bro. That car is going to just as on the side. Uh, my wife got a Corolla right before we got married and I drove it forever. Um, and I just said, "As soon as this thing dies, I'll get myself something else." I finally gave up. That car will never die. You'll have that Corolla till the end of time.

forever. >> I know. And that's why Andrew's like, I don't want it. >> And I drive >> Yeah. I I drive for I drive a lot for work, so I get paid about 75 cents a mile. >> Basically free. >> Yes. >> But it's it's about $19,000 on the note.

Um, which I haven't paid a dime toward because >> Oh, you owe 19,000 on the Corolla?

>> Yes, I do. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. my >> if I owned it outright, I think it'd be a different story. But >> I I would pay that off before I bought anything else. And I know that's like, dude, I'm an outdoorsman. I know that's like a kick in the teeth, but >> running your one getting laid off or you're one they're going to reduce the mileage or you're you're one you're current

situation is based on somebody else's decision.

And we wouldn't have jobs if people didn't weren't faced with that every single day. >> Yeah. How much How much is it worth?

>> Um uh my trade in value is about 26,000 right now. >> Oh, it's worth 26,000. Well, if you could figure out a way to to finagle

selling it and putting a little bit of money of your 25,000. You got to pay it off and have a little bit to put towards

something and get a used paid off car um

or truck. I I would consider that if you

wanted to do that. Um but the thing is is I you're on you're technically on baby step two, right? So when you're working the Ramsay plan. >> Yeah. >> Uh and if you paid off the car, you'd have $6,000 and a $25,000 paid off car

technically, right? Because what you said it was worth, you get 25 for. Is that what you said? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yep. >> So if that's the case, you got $6,000 in

savings and a $25,000 card. If you wanted to trade the $25,000 car for a $25,000 truck, you could do that, right?

Like if you wanted to get something that you wanted, I'd be okay with that. And then you got to beef up that $6,000 emergency fund >> to a probably a threemonth emergency fund for baby step three and then go on for investing all of it. But no, you don't need a >> brand new truck and I don't think you need anything worth more than the car you're currently driving once it's paid off.

>> I agree. Um, I guess my question after that would be, uh, for my mileage per year, being like a high mileage driver and essentially being forced to for work, how do you think that factors into

like the, you know, how people talk about the affordability of vehicles and kind of how I'm essentially bottlenecked into a certain type of vehicle because gas mileage >> because of your work, they don't pay for fuel. >> Yeah. Well, that's going to have to be a decision that you make. I don't know, Andrew. Do you want to pay for the truck mileage, you know, and and the gas for a truck? >> Yeah, >> that's that that would be your decision.

Can you do that in your monthly budget? Is that worth it for you?

>> Well, 75 cents a mile should cover that, right?

>> Yeah, it covers it. Um, >> I mean, that that's what that money's for. >> Right now, I'm Yeah, I'm profiting about

I would say $35 a gallon of gas. Are you trying to figure out how to keep the Corolla and get a truck?

>> That's what I wanted to do originally as that's the setup I had before. >> I wouldn't do that until you >> Yeah. I wouldn't do that until you paid off the Corolla. >> I wouldn't do it till you paid off the Corolla. And >> And paid cash for a truck. >> Paid cash for a truck. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And And by the way, dude, I like until last year, my daily driver to work

was an ' 06 Tundra that got like one and a half miles a gallon, but it was awesome. And it's will again will go to the end. You're a Toyota guy like me, it'll go to the end of time, right? And so I I wouldn't use this as an opportunity to upgrade cars and get a newer Tacoma or get a newer for like >> if you're going to buy a camping car, I would buy a camping car, right?

But even then, I wouldn't do it until after I'd paid off that Corolla. You you I I think you say you're 22 or 23.

>> Yep. >> Okay. I'm trying to picture myself at 22

or 23 making 100 120 grand, which I wasn't even anywhere near that world. I can't imagine that you don't think feel like you're rich and you are for a 22-y old.

>> The You'd be surprised. I I really don't. >> Okay. Well, he if you if you're getting

75 cents a mile and you're driving and you're making 120 grand, you're doing insanely well for 22 years old. I want you to listen to two people like years after 22.

You're literally one email away from your boss saying, "Hey, we're going we we can't afford it because of conflicts in the Middle East. So, we're going to go down to 25 cents a mile >> or or we're cutting jobs. >> We're cutting jobs or whatever.

>> And man, you're just so exposed right now, even though it doesn't feel like it." >> Mhm. >> Yep. So, Andrew, we would uh pay off your Corolla today because you have the money for it. And then beyond that, if you want to trade the Corolla for something else, you can do that. Or if you want to save up on the side to get a truck or a camping thing and you want to, you can just pay cash and buy used.

>> And this sounds cheesy, man, but if if you look at your actual life, I remember one time we we when my wife and I moved

from Houston and I didn't want to move cuz I was like, man, we go to Astros games, we go to concerts and all. And she said, all right, how many baseball games did we go to last year? And I was like I was like, "Okay, two." And she said, "How many trips when we were living across the state did we go back to Houston to see games?" Two. Right.

And so it was like, if you look at your life and you actually go fishing once a month, go rent a truck. Go rent one and

drop it off and it will be 150 or 200 bucks and call it good. Turn the keys back in and keep your life, keep your cash to yourself. >> Yeah. Or, god forbid, just take the Corolla. >> Take the Corolla, pile the dogs in. I mean I mean honestly >> put your tent in the truck and call it man. Yeah. Enjoy your life. >> Yes. Absolutely. I know when you put so much so much of your money and especially you starting off Andrew like you got um $25,000 in retirement which

is great. $25,000 you're doing you're doing some great stuff. But when you start to shift that focus to more um

consumerbased, I want this depreciating asset, >> especially a car, right, that you're like, okay, I'm going to just add on add on. Um it you're just just watch the

habits that you're starting to build at 22 is what I would say. That would be my word of caution of just instead of kind of just figuring it out and just getting what you need to kind of like take over, you know, have for your life and be like, "Yes, I need this car. Not so much great for work, but great for my leisure activities or whatever." That's fine. But um but yeah, buying the two cars right now, uh I don't know.

It just feels >> Here's my promise. 42year-old you will wish when you're you're married, you got some kids, 42-year-old you will wish you had a whole bunch of money in the bank, not two cars when you're 22.

think about 42-year-old you. You'll be able to go on some wicked awesome camping trips when you got cash.

>> Yep. For sure. But you're and you're almost there, Andrew. Again, hear us say like you're you're on the right track.

dominating, >> but but again, pay off that car today.

You have the money. Do not be paying a car loan with interest on a depreciating asset for another month. Don't do it.

So, just pay it off. You'll have the six grand. And then actually, when you start working with cash, Andrew, >> it kind of changes your mindset. It makes you think twice about something, right? When you have debt and you're like, "Okay, I can afford that payment here or this thing over here cuz it's just these small payments monthto month.

It doesn't feel like a big deal." But when you actually start living within your means and spending your own money, it actually changes the game. and and actually may change your mind once you have it paid off and you're like, man, I don't know if I want to spend or save up for another car. I kind of want to save up and start investing or doing something else with this money.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney. So give us a call at

888255225.

All right, let's go to Minneapolis. I'll pronounce it correctly this hour. Uh and we have Monica on the line. Hi Monica,

welcome to the show.

>> Hi. I'm a huge fan.

>> Oh, thank you. Thanks for calling in.

How >> we're a huge fan of yours Monica.

So, what's up?

>> So, I have a question. We're just kind of having a debate, my husband and I, about how much I should be spending a month. And I want to be within budget,

but I'm kind of confused on what's acceptable and what's not for >> less than your budget.

>> Tada. >> Right. There you go.

>> Solved.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, I was just I'm just messing with you. What's What's your confusion? Me and Rachel love solving marital disputes. So, we're going to solve this. >> We love spenders like you, Monica. We're glad you called.

>> Well, I used to not be a spender because I had no money.

>> And then we had children and they need

all the things. >> Oh, are you one of those moms that likes your kids to have shoes and stuff?

>> Yeah. >> Boo. Boo.

>> Yeah. I just feel like the kids expenses just pop up. you know, our oldest, >> she she's rough on her tennis shoes and the next thing you know, like she needs a new pair of shoes. >> Totally. Totally. >> So, what's your husband upset about?

>> I do spend too much. But that's what I asked. I said, "Well, do you want me to stop going to the personal trainer, which we spend too much money on, but it is really beneficial. She's more of like a physical therapist and has helped my back get a lot better." >> Okay.

>> Um said, "Nope, not that." He's like, "You don't you're not into like brand names and all that, so I'm not worried about what you spend on clothes and um not worried about hair salon. You can always go there." And I was just like, "So what then?" >> It's almost like he just has this random feeling.

>> Well, well, I am spending too much though. Um why do you say that?

>> Our house is our house our house is paid off. Our cars are paid off. I don't know

how much insurance costs and things like that. And I because I'm kind of a child when it comes to like that end of who's in charge with our relationship, but um

I'm spending 12,000 a month. And I know 2,000 is on groceries, 150 is on the

gym, 100 uh 480 is the uh personal trainer, 200 a month on hair, and then I

I don't have a tally on all the things that >> there's a lot left. Yeah. Where's the other >> $10,000?

Right. I know. I'm racking my brain. And I think it's I mean, I garden, so we buy a lot of stuff for the garden. And And when I say garden, it's it yes, some flowers, but it's also a lot of vegetables and stuff, but >> Yeah. But we do that, too. And my wife collects seeds and like >> Mhm. >> I don't know how big your >> garden. How much you guys make a year?

>> Um, almost 400.

>> And you're completely debtree.

>> Mhm.

My my my big concern here is that you don't know where $10,000 a month is going >> because y'all are like I'm going to say this nicely, but y'all are wealthy.

Y'all are doing really well.

>> I'm not offended about anything you say.

>> I know. I know. I know. But I know you're a nice person. >> Y'all y'all are doing really well. My concern is it it it's >> I I'm in your husband's camp here that I want my wife to spend what she wants to spend. I want her to feel good. I want her to do all those things that make her who she is. And then there's 10,000 more

dollars a month that are unaccounted for. >> And I I'm troubled here that you don't even have a ballpark.

>> You don't seem to have any idea where that money's going.

>> We I I'm that mom that like every

holiday has to be super special, but I know that I I decorate for all of it. We have a trail in our backyard that I decorate for Halloween and then we decorate it for Christmas and we decorate for Easter and their birthdays and >> you're dropping like two grand on something like that and not really thinking much about it >> probably >> like it'll be that kind of stuff that you're doing. Okay.

>> Um Okay. So, you're spending you said 12

grand you guys. What hits your account every month? Probably 30.

>> I don't know. >> Okay. Okay. So, here >> because it's inconsistent. It's a I don't want to get into details, but it's a job. >> Okay, that's fine. Okay. Do you guys >> Well, one month is >> Are you guys intentional with how much you're giving and saving every month?

Y'all have goals?

>> He is super good with that stuff, investments, and things. He showed me paperwork and I think I have dyslexia with numbers, but >> Okay. So, I'm You don't >> You don't. >> Okay. I'm going to have a hot take here.

>> Okay. >> Because of how much you make, considering everything is paid off.

Okay. Y'all have not you have you're you're fine if you're investing. I'm going to pretend, Monica, that you guys are investing in retirement. You have your future is being taken care of. The kids college is being taken care of.

You're giving. I'm going to just assume you're being very responsible people.

>> You're you're at a high bar started >> and then you have, you know, 25 $30,000

left a month. Okay, hot take. if everything else is taken care of. Um, the number doesn't like super throw me off. It's not like you guys can't afford it. >> Here's what's throwing me off. Two things, Monica. >> Number one, you personally don't know where this money's going. There's no line item for Easter. And God forbid

Monica puts for some people, they're going to think you are insane that you're going to put $1,500 for your Easter trail. >> I know, but that's where you're choosing to spend it. And you have it, Monica.

and stick up for you >> 100%. But even even that you said Christmas, Easter, and Halloween, >> if you spend 2,000 bucks a month decorating the trail behind your house, that's 6,000 bucks. You spend double that every month.

>> Okay. So, so that's what I'm saying though is like you you at least if I knew you knew where this money is going and you had a selfch check of like, okay, that that feels right for me. And X, Y, and Z. Everyone values different things.

Everyone throws their one-year-old a birthday party looks like a wedding reception. I don't get why, but people do it and it's fine if you have the money. I'm not mad at you. It's not a moral thing.

And you are allowed to spend some money, but the problem is back. I'm rambling.

One is you don't know where the money's going, Monica. Big problem. If you can map out exactly what's going on, then we can actually have an adult conversation.

And then number two, you don't know what's going on with any of your money.

like you've said you've deferred to your husband three or four different times on this call and that's a problem. That's a problem. >> I think your husband's statement you're spending too much is if I got to the thing beneath the thing of that statement it is >> it's out of control. >> You're immature in this relationship and I'm having to do all this by myself.

>> Yeah. You're more like the child and he's having the parent that's having to take care of he doesn't want to be your dad. He wants to be your husband.

>> Yes. >> And that means you >> you have to be a partner in this. you come to him tonight and say, "I've acted like a child and I'm sorry. I wanted I I

don't have dyslexia with numbers. That's not a thing. I don't know how all the investments work and whatever, but I do know how addition and subtraction works.

I want to know how much we make. I want to go through our statements over the last three months and go line by line. I want to find out where this money's going. And I promise that if we make a budget, I'll stick to it."

>> Okay? and and Monica and it's going to be a good exercise for you because part of handling money if the numbers work like right that's our first big check mark I feel like is like when we look at the data do the numbers work and yes you're not going into debt for this stuff like the numbers work but there's also a spiritual component to money that

you're not being you're not being a great manager of your money you're you're sloppy with it right so again I'm not mad that you're spending money but you're spending it on impulse and what feels good and what I need to do in the moment >> and with no accountability >> and that's not that's not a good character building moment. You need some discipline in it again >> and your husband needs a partner.

>> Yes. Yes. So, all those things combined, Monica, you guys may get to the end of this and say, "Yes, we're still going to spend $1,500 on the trail." And that's fine because that's what you're deciding to spend. But at least you're doing it as an adult with a rational thought behind it as a good manager.

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Up next, we have Bruce in Philadelphia.

Hi, Bruce. Welcome to the show.

>> Thank you for taking by call. How are you? >> Yes, we're doing great. How can we help today? >> Well, I have a question. Um, I'll give you a little background. I'm 72. I'm retired. I have roughly about 1.3

million. Um, and I also have a

retirement income of about 150 before

taxes. And I'm looking to do some in

well, I've been investing mostly in CDs.

And I don't know if I should continue just rolling over those CDs or going

into something uh a little more

aggressive.

>> Yeah, for sure. So, is the 1.3 in CDs?

>> No, the 1.3 is um some of it is in IAS

and the rest of it Yeah, it's spread out. Yeah, spread some of it spread out into CDs. Yeah. >> Oh, okay. Some of the 1.3 How much of the 1.3 is in CDs?

Uh about

500,000. >> Oh wow. Okay.

>> Um and the 150 that you're living off of, is that coming out of the 1.3?

>> Uh some of it is. Most of it's coming from um uh retirement pension and social security. >> Oh, okay. Great. Awesome. Um well, yes.

Short answer is yes, Bruce. I would move for sure that 500. Yes. Into into the

market. Yeah. of investing it. I mean it would be you can look into different types of mutual funds, you can look at index funds. Um but with the market kind of the the rule of 72 just the quick math is investing it usually you double

your money in seven years. So in seven years you would have a million. Seven years later you'd have two million where CDs you're making like >> maybe 3%.

>> Yeah. 3.7.

>> Yeah. I mean, you could move it all into a high yield savings account and make more than that. >> And if you move if you move half a million dollars, somebody will give you three and a half or 4% on that money.

>> Mhm. >> What are you What are you at right now?

Two and three4ers.

>> Can you repeat that? I'm sorry.

>> What What What are you What interest are you generating on those CDs?

>> Uh, some of them are at four. Some I

think >> five. Well, so yeah, so if you think about it, the market >> I mean it's I mean again depending on your it's kind of so volatile I feel like this calendar year but >> overall you're going to on average safe is 10 is 10%. So and that's just safe

right? Some some years I mean the past what two years it was like at 23%. I mean it's just cra it was crazy >> what you can do. So, um, and especially since you don't need the money, right?

Because you would you do want to kind of let it ride out in case you put the money in and if you needed it in 2 months, you know, it takes some out, you know, that wouldn't feel great if it was dropping a little bit, but letting it all kind of just, >> you know, have some time to settle into the market and let the market settle, right? Its ups and downs. Um, I would for sure, Bruce, yes, I would put that uh into the market instead of CDs >> without a doubt.

>> Okay. Yes. >> Or or to put it in a different way, neither Rachel nor I put our money in

have one dollar in a CD.

>> So, it's not it's not like us just telling you something hypothetical. >> And I don't think we've ever once told anyone, no, to put money in CDs either, Bruce. So, yeah, it is um from the track record of what the market's doing, it is safe. And I understand even at your age of being cautious with it, right, and saying like, "Okay, where are we at?" But honestly, 72 still is pretty young.

I'm like, you could if you're in good health, you could Yeah. I mean, seriously. So, um, so no, I would definitely put it in the market. Um, not only because it's the best investment, but also you don't need the money.

The income that you're getting is from pensions and social security. You're not even using most of it. So, if there is a little bit of dip and you don't need to take out as much, it's not going to hurt that bad. So, uh, it's a great question and Bruce, well done.

Uh, >> yeah. Excellent, brother. >> Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

All right, let's go to Tibby in Jacksonville.

welcome to the show.

>> Hi. How are you guys today?

>> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Um, so I we have kind of an interesting

situation. Um,

we we have about 25,000 in savings. Um, we

the only debt that we have is a travel trailer that we're actively paying off.

Uh, we just paid off my husband's student loans. Other than that, we don't have any other debt aside from our house. And um

through a series of unfortunate events, we I just discovered that we actually have mold growing on the bottom side of

our couch.

>> Oh, throw it away.

>> Well, my question is, do we dip into the

emergency fund for that? Is that something that's worthy of an emergency fund? >> Pull some chairs around. Pull some chairs around. You'll be fine.

>> I know. We have a 10-month-old, though.

>> That makes it even Your 10month old, you're going to get a new couch. Your 10month-old is going to shotgun out of both ends on that new couch

>> and spill milk on it, which is going to cause more mold.

>> You don't want anything nice right now.

No. >> No. No. >> I mean, buy a couch. like we're jo you you for real would not buy a couch. >> I I Well, listen. You have to understand

that it was when my first book went

number one that my wife asked, "Hey, we have a bed frame that you bought off Craigslist for $50 and spray painted.

Can we get a real bed?" So, I'm probably not the best furniture guy in the world to ask, but I would, if it was my house,

pull some couches. I mean, pull some chairs, some shenanigans, sit on the floor with your kid or whatever.

>> And by the way, not having a couch in the living room will >> you'll have more action with your kid on the floor. Y'all will actually go to bed on time and not rock in front of the TV.

It could change your life in a bunch of positive ways. >> Okay, look, >> but that's not why you're calling me. I know. >> Um, all right. Rooms to go sofas from

3.99.

>> I'd be okay if you spend 400 bucks on a rooms to go sofa. I I'll I'll go with Rachel if you have to. >> I know. And you can't you cannot take it out of your emergency fund. You got to take it out of your restaurant budget or something else. >> You got to cash flow the couch. >> That was my my thing. Do >> cash flow the couch. Yep.

>> You have a 10-month old. Don't buy nice stuff. >> Please get a gross like don't get a I say a gross one. I mean it can be it can be new. It doesn't have to be old and used and gross.

A new couch.

But cash flow it out of our monthly income. >> Yes. And a cheap couch. That's how I was trying to say. >> Cheap. Cheap.

>> Okay. We wouldn't go expensive. We're a military family. Things get broken with every move. So, we're pretty we're we're

pretty basic when it comes to our furniture. Anyway, >> get a couch. If you have to get a couch, get one that you'll leave when you move.

Just leave it.

>> We can do that. Yeah, that's okay. Well, and Timmy, you didn't call about this, but you guys have $25,000 in savings. Is that what you said?

>> Yeah, we have a $25,000 emergency fund.

Um, all total like investments between

my IRA mutual.

>> How much is on the camper? How much is left on the trailer?

>> 30. >> Pay it off today.

>> She can't. She They have 25,000.

>> They're close.

>> I know. >> Yeah. Go ahead. The only reason we have that is because of the nature of my husband's job in the Air Force. It's

rather dangerous. So, it makes me feel

much more secure to have that um in the

event of >> something >> the knock at the door. >> Yeah, I get that. >> Does he have life insurance? Do you guys have life insurance?

>> Uh we have it through the military um

right before he was leaving on deployment. That's the other thing. He's currently deployed, so I'm trying to figure all of this out. But right before

he left for deployment is when we were going to start going through Xander and getting quotes and all of that stuff. We just pre-eployment didn't have time to

get that added on there. >> Yeah, I want you guys to do that ASAP.

And on you too, Tibby, if something happened to you, um, and you guys need 10 to 12 times your annual income.

Sometimes with people that have insurance through their companies or through the military, it's not enough.

Um, and so get Term Life. Check out our friends at Xander Insurance because they're an insurance broker that actually shop all different companies to get you the lowest rate. So, um, you guys, yeah, be looking at that for real though because I understand the safety net of wanting that money. It makes total sense.

But also, if you knew that other aspects were being taken care of financially, you would be able to use cash today to help you guys in your present situation get along further faster to wealth building, which would be paying off this debt. Um, so you guys consider that.

You're paying payments on something in interest that's going down in value. So getting rid of that debt is going to be huge for you guys.

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We wish we could get to every call here on the Ramsey Show, but we can't. So, if you have a money question though, we have an answer for your situation. So, you can go to our website and use Ask Ramsey. So, Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool and it's built and trained on

proven money principles that we've been talking about. I mean, this whole system that they've built has I mean, every answer in there is from the past couple years of shows, all of our books, articles. I mean, anything and everything Ramsey has put out content-wise is in there. And it's wild how personalized it can get because it can it will remember you and your situation, but you can put in specific numbers, all of it, and it will spit out an answer like you have called the Ramsay Show. So get your question um

answered today at Ramseyolutions.com at

the Ask Ramsey uh tool. So you make sure to check it out or if you are listening on podcast or YouTube, we will put a link below. All right, let's head to Bill in Seattle. Hi Bill, welcome to the show. >> Hi. >> Hello. How are you today?

>> I'm I'm doing good. How are you guys?

>> We are doing great. How can we help?

>> So um my my question to you guys is

whether I should continue moving forward with getting engaged um with my girlfriend, you know, even though I see

her as kind of being financially um irresponsible.

>> Run, Bill. Run. >> No. Stop. >> No, >> I'm just playing. I'm playing.

>> Tell us more. What What does financially irresponsible mean?

>> Um, it means that she uh she still kind of

nickels and dimes us to death. So when it comes to those small expenses like eating out and getting a cup of coffee,

I I think there's very little consideration on her part in terms of how those expenses can accumulate over time.

Um and I guess the other big thing too

is um you know not not a steady source

of income from her hand so that when we

have big expenses like our um like our

animals vet appointments um you know it

usually ends up me sharing the financial burden um more so.

>> Are y'all are you all living together?

>> Yes. So, we are Yeah, I'm a uh that's

>> what this is kind of all about is I'm a 30-year-old living in my girlfriend's parents' basement. >> Oh, there's that. >> Okay, cool.

>> Lead with lead with that next time, brother. >> Um All right. So, how much of this It's

just Listen, it's just two dudes. Rachel happens to be here and like a couple of million people. Just listen in. Okay.

How much of this is you've got to see up close? I don't know

if this is a person I want to spend the rest of my life with.

Cuz here's the thing. I skipped a final

exam to run across campus

because I knew that's a place that my girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife, would be walking across campus at a certain time, >> right? So, if if it was really that she

spent too much on cups of coffee and didn't work very often and you were head over heels, this was your person, you'd be calling us in 10 years saying she won't get a job and she spent y'all into the poor house. What else is going on that's making you start to question this thing?

Um well, we we've been together for such

a long time and um I think

we we've had our ups and downs, but eventually um I feel like recently in my life, I've gone through uh a stage of of maturity and I and that certainly means financial maturity. And um and I think that is

what I have yet to see from her. um especially in recent times and I know if

I want to take that next step with her that is something that we certainly have to agree upon. >> How old is she?

>> Uh she is 28. >> Okay. >> So it's more of a maturity over on who she is. But what you're seeing and what's coming out is the money side too.

>> Yes. >> And here's Oh, man. This is a double-edged sword. All right, brother. And Rachel, tell me knock me off my pedestal like you're so good at doing. Rachel >> would love to, John. My concern here is a double-edged sword. One, you have somebody who isn't working, is seems to

be content living at home with her parents, whatever, and never has any

money, and continues to rack up expenses. There's that. My honestly, my

bigger concern right now is you are starting to feel like you are better than her.

And that is, man, that is the you're

tilling the soil to plant the seeds for contempt. And contempt is one of the Gottman's four horsemen that will just destroy your relationship. It's you sitting up in the lifeguard tower of a local pool looking down on

sitting with her and saying, "Hey, what's our plan to get out of your parents' basement?" Right? What's your financial future?

What what job are you going to have? How are we what kind of future do we want to build together? And if she won't participate in that, yeah, you've got you've got bigger issues. >> Yeah. Have y'all had conversations, Bill, about it?

>> We recently, three weeks ago, tried to

have a completely clean slate where we,

you know, push everything behind us in the past and we just look forward and we don't bring up anything that happened in the past. And it's it seems like I'm I'm

getting that sense of financial urgency from her. But then it then there's some still those moments where again she you know has a small unnecessary expense or

just yesterday if I may say she had

spent approximately $60 to get us concert tickets. Um, and

it's still those things that occur that

prevent me from um, bring, you know,

giving her my full trust financially speaking. >> Well, it's tough because y'all aren't married. And so, I wouldn't tell you to make a budget together because y'all are just boyfriend and girlfriend living in her parents' basement, right? Like if y'all were married, if y'all were engaged and y'all were starting to think through, we're going to make a budget together and we're going to high-five each other and stick to this budget that we've made >> and then she was like, "Look out, surprise concert tickets." Then yeah, you >> you've broken something that you've said together.

Yes. >> But if y'all are just dating and you've been dating a long time and you're just sitting in your in-law, I mean, in your girlfriend's parents' basement saying like, "Hey, we need to get our stuff together." And she's like, "Yeah, yeah." I mean, >> I've created no situation where she has to, right? And and I hear what you're saying, Bill.

>> Yeah. >> Can she keep a job? Like what's the job situation?

>> Um so I have two jobs. I work full-time at a Target and part-time as a math tutor at Mathnasium. And I work approximately 40 to 55 hours a week. And I'd say it brings me in approximately 3500 to 4,000 a month.

>> And what does she do?

So, she just has uh side gigs. Um she does a lot of pet sitting. Um it's been picking up a little bit because it's it's springtime and summertime and people want to travel. Um the other

thing I guess too is she does have her mom who owns a lice removal service

company and she has lots of experience

with doing that and that's actually a very nice job because they get a lot >> pay a lot. But she won't work. She won't work it though. >> Well, and this and >> that's Yes. >> Okay. Okay. Yes. So, but I can I can feel Okay, Bill, but you're in the same You're a little bit I'm going to group you all in the same situation. You're both living with at her parents house.

>> I hear you trying. You're he's turned a corner and he's like, I want to do

something with my life, create financial stability. and she's petsitting, which again, nothing's wrong with pets sitting, but that's for a full-time career if she was doing it 60 hours a week. >> 28-y old, >> not for a 28-y old, right? And it could be a great side gig, but like that you I I do see the lack of initiation on her side. And that is >> very concerning. >> Yes, that's concerning. So, I see >> it's concerning that her mom still speaks into y'all's life,

>> right? So, here's the thing.

>> The only thing you can control is you.

If I if you were my son in this exact situation, I would tell you go get a one-bedroom apartment today. >> Yes.

>> Praise God. >> I want I want you to have skin in the game of your life.

>> And you're not going to you're not going to accumulate wealth as much as you want, whatever. And then say, "We're not breaking up, but I need to get out of underneath your mom and dad as my parents, and I need to start creating a life as me as a 30-year-old man." >> Yes. And then you can see with clear eyes, is she want to join your team till

death do you part or she want to live under her mommy's roof petsitting a few months out of the year? Right.

>> That's what I was going to say, John. >> Dude, you wrapped it up. Seriously. Yes.

It's going to expose and show more of the truth. Bill, when you are on your own and you have the blinders on for your life, does she enter it or does she exit it? >> And you make your budget for your money.

Today's Ramsey show Question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you've lost control of your private student loan payments, your financial progress has stalled out, but Yrefi helps borrowers explore refinancing options with payments built around their real life situations. So to learn more, go to

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May not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Andy in Kansas. Andy writes, "My wife says

I'm taking the baby steps too seriously." Andy, there's no such thing.

All right. Um, because I'm very focused on paying off our debt using the snowball method. She wants to pay off debt, but would like us to save for a vacation and build a larger emergency fund at the same time. We have the $1,000 starter emergency fund, but she wants to increase that amount, slow down a bit, and not be so intense about paying off debt.

I don't want to create tension between us, but at the same time, I really want to stay focused on becoming debtree. How can we stay united as a couple while making progress towards our financial goals? This has to be the number one question we get >> that one person is like >> all in.

>> Yes. Yes. Totally. Um,

yeah. And I think for me it's it's one of those gives and take, give, give and take, gives and takes, give and takes in marriage. Um, because there is there's naturally going to be the free spirit, the one that I do think has the capacity to handle some of maybe the the money

stress a little bit more. It's just whatever it is, right? Where there's the one that's like, we got to get out of this. The urgency is so big. And and maybe I wouldn't put nerd-free spirit on those specifically, but that tends to be the personality of the couples we see.

But what we find overall are the per the couples who win financially, and I mean win like pay off their home, have a million dollars in their retirement, all of it. They are not only shooting for the same goal, but they're for each other in the process. Meaning if I see that this is so important to him, I know it's important and I want to get there, but man, he wants to like, you know, go all out, okay, for a year, like we'll do

it. I can give up a vacation for a year and I can go in and and almost in a way of loving him well of what he is desiring and wanting at the speed, you know, that vice versa to the wife, right? If she wants her debtree, she's like, "Yeah, she's probably want to spend more on a vacation and he's like, okay, we have the money for it. We're not being responsible, but I wouldn't I would spend it." somewhere else.

But for her right now, okay, let's just do it because we can. Do does that make sense? Like >> that is my exact house.

somebody money, I don't sleep. I I I

have anxiety. Like it drives me crazy.

My wife could have a mortgage and a car payment and she wouldn't lose sleep over it. She didn't like it, but she she sleep just fine. I I have a plan and whatever. her loving me well when we

were buying a house and we were able to put a big chunk down. We're gonna take a mortgage on a little bit of it. We sat down and I said, "Okay, for this long

it's going to cost me, can we pay this thing like this?" And she said, "Yes, and when this thing's paid off, we're going to take a silly vacation." And I was like, I would never spend that on a vacation all in. Right. And so it's us loving each other. Well, >> but Andy, what that required though was

>> that conversation that me and my wife had was not a spreadsheet conversation.

It was, hey, here's what this does to me. And she's like, I love you more than any other thing I could have. Yes, >> I'm all in. And life without a vacation

for me, I like I don't like that. And

I'm like, I love you more than any of the like, right? So, we'll do that, too.

This is about talking about the thing beneath the thing, which is sitting down and saying, "Here's what the debt is doing to me. It's making me feel like a failure as a dad, as a husband. It scares me about our future. The economy is bananas right now.

AI is going to kill us all." Like all those say those things out loud and then come up with a plan together. I don't think you're taking the baby steps too seriously, Andy, but I do think you're taking them on all by yourself and that's going to divide your marriage up. And so I think sitting down and having the convers the thing beneath the thing and if you're with a partner that's like I don't care what you care about we're having a vacation your marriage has bigger issues >> right cuz I promise you that's not just showing up there it's showing up in other places too.

>> Well and that's it too. I'm like and we say it all the time that so many calls we get about money issues. They're not really money issues. It's marriage issues.

You really do. It is because that's who we are as people to our core, right?

Like that's what the the complete side of us is. And all this other stuff of

life that we've built on top of it, money, you know, all this other stuff, it's all built on top of that. And the problem is you only get to that layer if you're like, here's the spreadsheets and here here's how much we can make with the percentage that we're saving here versus the market. And all that's fine.

Like that's true, right? Like you can look at the math and absolutely. And some people are like great, check it off. That's what I needed to see.

But for most people, especially from the quality of a marriage perspective, it is getting to understanding what is happening with my spouse. And when you do and you have those conversations, you get to know your spouse, right, >> on a deeper way, right? >> And there's there's nothing greater than seeing and knowing and learning about your spouse. By the way, you're you're going to be married to 15 or 20 different versions of your spouse over the course of your marriage.

So, you're always going to be in an act of getting to know >> and then celebrating the crap out of them. And celebrating your spouse sometimes is we're going to do without a vacation for 2 years cuz we're going to get this thing cleaned up and then we're going to be able to go on whatever stupid vacations we want to go on uh for for from now until forever if we just make the sacrifice. But >> I really want to stay focused on becoming debtree. Andy writes, tell her why.

Tell her what's going on in your spirit in the middle of your chest. Have that conversation.

Getting out of debt, which I guess some people would say is crazy. There are things in life that are like, "Yeah, that's worth fighting for." Because that really does cause stress, right? You could put money stuff in there, health stuff, >> of course, >> you know, it's not like, "Oh gosh, I think >> which I can go conspiracy, but if you're like, okay, yeah, the all the cell phones are going down tomorrow. We got to like get bugout back, right?" Like, it's not a lot.

It's not like not factual, right? These are things that are like actually factually affecting people. Does that make sense? Like you can put other elements, but money is one of those things that affects people.

like oh my gosh, she's having to like coddle something that's bizarre and weird and like oh gosh, >> she's it's actually going to create a lot of health in you and in your marriage when money is not a factor because you guys have control over it.

All right, let's hope the cell phones don't go down tomorrow. But uh if they do, we have Julie in Los Angeles. I don't know what you do in Los Angeles if all the cell phones went down, but hey Julie, how are you?

>> I'm good. >> Good. How can we help you today?

>> I have a question. Um first off, I am a

debt snowball graduate, my husband and I, from a long time ago. Um but um I am

now a widow and I'm 61. I'm looking to

retire uh at 62, which is about a year

away. And I want to know I'm going to

move out of this taxable state into a non- tax state. And I want to know based on what assets that I have, how much

house can I afford and how should I buy it? You know, mortgage, cash, what should I do? >> Okay. How much will you have when you sell the house?

>> Uh I'm I don't own one right now. I'm

going to retire and then I'm going to move. I want to know how much house I can afford to buy. >> Okay. How much how much money do you have saved >> in retirement? >> Uh I have about $3 million in investments.

>> Okay. >> Um and another million probably in 401ks. >> Okay, perfect. Do you know how much um just living expenses for you is a month?

How much you would probably spend to live comfortably for you? >> Right now, right now working and everything, I'm relatively frugal. Like kind of a graduate from the debt snowball school. Yeah, you've done it.

>> That's great. >> And um >> so what I would >> what I would do, Julie, honestly, is I would sit down with a Smart Investor Pro. If you go to Ramseyolutions.com, um you can find one in your area because I would want you to map out and see, okay, if I had to live off of the $4

million, um how much less could I live off of in order to own a home right out? Right?

So, if you took half a million and bought something with that, um, you know, you'd have 3.5 million left. How much per year, which would you would you need to see growth for you to live off of? Which I think would be plenty.

>> So, then you can up it and say, "What if I bought a million dollar? Do I need a million dollar?" So, you're going to actually be able to run some numbers out in calculations to see actually the money that you have to withdraw to live off of, how much would you need, and if

you want to leave any um to the next generation as well. So, um so I would get with the Smart Ver Pro and run those numbers, but I would assume anywhere from a 400 to a 500,000.

>> Easy peasy. >> You're going to be great and you can pay cash for it, which is awesome, Julie. Well done.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney and we're taking your calls. The lines are open at88255225.

All right, we're gonna go to John in Houston, Texas. >> Htown, what's up, John?

>> Hey, what's going on, y'all? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today?

>> So, I am wanting for me and my wife's household income to equal $100,000 a year by the end of 2027. I'm currently

halfway there and make 51,000.

But, she refuses to work. And when she does work and then quits, she blames it on being bipolar and having anxiety. I'm wondering what I should do to push her to start working and keeping her job.

>> Does she have diagnosed bipolar disorder? >> She does. >> Okay. Is she manage it well? Does she take her meds?

>> Uh, she takes her meds, but as far as managing, it probably not.

>> H, >> what does that mean? Sorry. What is that? What would that mean?

>> She's not managing it well, but she is.

>> I I've known some amazing some folks with bipolar one that are amazing folks, but they know I take my medication every day for the rest of my life. And for folks with especially with with BP bipolar one, it's hard because you feel so good. It's easy to feel like, oh, I'm all good now.

>> And you got to take your meds, but also

you have to be intentional about your exercise. You have to be intentional about your sleep. You have to be intentional about relationships, the whole thing. And that's what I mean by managing it. >> Got it. Got it. >> Um, and so she doesn't do that. Is that right? >> No. >> Okay. Is she still seeing a counselor?

>> Yeah, she uh we actually have a schedule for Thursday. >> Okay. Um I Is this your first time to go with her?

>> Uh this is this will be my second time.

>> Okay. I want you to lead with this question. Okay.

Um >> Okay. We have some household financial needs and I see needs I see u abilities

in my wife that she doesn't see for herself. How can I love her through the transition of being scared of your own body which having bipolar one is as they've I've had people explain it to me. It's like you're being betrayed by your own body, right? Some things feel so amazing at them. Some things feel like the end of time and neither of those things are right. And so how can I love her through this transition?

Yeah. >> And that's going to signal to your wife, I'm on your team. And things have to

change in our home. And it's going to signal to the therapist, oh, this woman has support, not at the lecturing level,

but at the soul level. I'm with her.

>> How can I love her well during this time as she's going to begin managing this thing? >> Yeah. >> Right. And then if she's in a in a positive season right now, if she's in like what I call not a manic state or a depressive state, but if she's doing pretty well right now, this is a great conversation to lay out like how can I

love you when things get pretty when you get pretty ramped up and how can I love you when things when you get pretty ramped down and go ahead and come up with a game plan now so that when those when those things hit um hopefully the the medication and the life management, all that levels some of that out, but when those things hit you already have a road map. Trying to ask somebody during a manic phase, how can I love you?

That's a that that's not helpful, right?

You've been there, right? And when somebody's can't get out of bed, like it's hard to be like, well, how can I love you today? >> And so, um, but getting that when you're in a good season, that's amazing.

>> And it might be it might be that the

thou $100,000 number you have in your head, >> y'all may never get there. It might be 75 and that'll be okay. We have to then

reimagine what our life's going to look like. And that's going to be okay, too. >> Right. >> Yeah. I put the $100,000 mark because we're actually $30,000 in debt.

>> Okay. And that's hard to pay off only making 51 grand, right?

>> Right. >> Yeah. Is she have her spending under control?

>> Um, no. >> Okay. That might be the front end of this conversation, which is during manic phases, especially we I hear that a lot that folks just get to spending and spending and spending. So, when I know I'm heading into a manic phase, I'm going to put my debit card in a lock box

and you own the uh we have a freeze on

your credit report and you own the passcode to Amazon Prime, right? There's just some low-level basic things that I've seen couples do that work great for the for those seasons. And you might have to weather a storm, right? She might come after you for that code or that password, but we're going to hold firm in those seasons.

>> Okay. >> How long have you guys been married, John?

>> Uh, we're going on three years.

>> Okay. >> Three years. >> So, still learning. Yeah. >> How to do this? Well, >> I'm glad you guys have a good a good counselor. >> And can I say this? Um, this doesn't get talked about very much.

This is exhausting for you, too, right?

It's okay for you to feel that way also.

Okay. I know she's the one with the diagnosis. I know she's the one struggling inside of her own skin.

Totally get that. And you love her to the moon and back, right? And it's frustrating for you, too, to try to build some sort of secure life for both of you. That's hard. And so, you get to be um I want to give you permission to be frustrated, too. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> John, did you were you aware of everything before you guys got married?

Um, so actually I had a couple I had one

debt of my own and then when we got married, we uh financed the car and then

the rest is um just if anything were to

h if anything happened, she would just panic and then just get a loan for $500

or $1,000.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. And so that's where putting a freeze on her credit, >> y'all. You you you don't do that for her, but y'all do that together. That in those moments when she panics, it it there's a stop gap there, right? And we're going to put as many hurdles as possible in front of us so that we together don't make bad decisions for us.

>> Okay. >> Awesome. >> Is that cool? Thanks for the call, brother. >> Yeah. Thanks, John. >> Thanks for loving her well while she's struggling. >> For sure. Yeah. And that that is difficult. And I think you know and even if someone is not you know diagnosed with something like that there is this

realization of okay I can only do so much on my end. You know we were talking about um spouses and bringing them on

board right and working as a team together. Um but we have found when you

create stop gaps together with things

like spending when especially if you see a pattern uh is so helpful. It is so

helpful because you don't realize the ease at which debt can just come into your life or spending can just happen.

>> You can have a bad if you if I I've known people with bipolar one that have one bad weekend >> and there I'm I'm talking 10 or 20 years worth of digging out of this hole. Yeah.

Right. You can go buy a car and get a $10,000 loan and then get two credit cards and burn through them all in a weekend now. Right. Right.

And what a nightmare that is to untangle. So, it's knowing yourself well enough to know and being honest with yourself enough to know I >> my body gets set on fire from the inside out. I panic. I do X, Y, and Z.

I need to put some hurdles in my life. Will you help me? >> And from your experience, not her specifically, but that situation, she would she could have the ability to have that rational thought and when she's in a good state. >> Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. And he's got to expect she's going to come she's going to come for blood when she's not doing well. And that's part of loving somebody well when they're struggling, right?

>> Yes. With that. >> Um and that's okay.

>> Well, John, we're so glad you called in.

Hope that's helpful. We're we're cheering you guys on. Call us back if you need anything.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseyssolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Up next, we have Tori in Huntsville,

Alabama. Hi, Tori. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you.

>> Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in.

How can we help?

>> So, I am currently in baby step number two. Uh, I currently work for a financial firm and what I do is I deal

with equity >> and although I am currently paying off my debt, there is

a test more so like the certifications for equity professionals that you can take. I mean it for me it would significantly increase my income.

>> Okay. >> But it is $2,000. So >> my question for you is although I'm still paying off debt, would it be okay

>> to you know spend that money to take this test and you know more than likely increase the income or should I just wait and try to finish off paying?

Because right now if I stick to my plan >> I should be done and completely out of debt next year. Okay. Um Tori, what are

you making now? And if you had the certification, what would you be making?

>> Okay. So, I am currently at 68.

>> Okay. >> Five. But minimum on average about 90

with the certification. >> Oh, yeah. I would >> I would Tori. >> I would Tori. Yes. Because it's pretty guaranteed, right? It's not like you're getting an MBA and you hope you'll get a higher paying job somewhere. It's a pretty like one for one, right? If I didn't get the 90, majority of even just

even competitors with my own company are paying at the very minimum for an e like for the actual the certified equity professional certification.

>> Yep. >> Still at 85 minimum for most companies.

That's the lowest I've seen it. >> 100%. And are you pretty confident asking that? >> I'm confident >> you can take that you'll take that when you take it. You think you'll pass?

>> You got pass >> or you going to have to take it like five times? Do you know? No, I think I'll pass. I've been actually preparing for it. I've been thinking about it for the past week and a half.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Heck yeah. I'm like that's like a $20,000 increase. >> How many months will it take you to save up to pay for this test?

>> Um, honestly, I just recently picked up a second job, so I honestly can have this saved up within the next two months. >> You're a baller. Do it. Do it. Um, I also cuz I just paid off my car, so then that freed up an extra $500 a month, but I'm confident I can have this >> done. Do it. Do it.

>> Yeah. >> And I don't know. I know like I've heard on you guys' show where like you said like when you're paying off debt to like stop certain things, but like I did stop

part of my 401k investments, I um

>> I didn't drop it all the way down. I had it at 10%. I'm now doing 6% just so I can keep my match.

>> Boom. >> Tori, for for 12 months, pause it and

throw that money at your debt. >> Just be done. You're so close.

>> Just for 12 months. >> Like I know >> I have 22,000 left in student loans and I have about 4,200 left in credit cards.

But I got a plan. Is almost done. I'll have it paid next next like literally in the next month. The next card was a secured card. So, actually, I plan to close it anyway, so I can throw that at the next deck. >> Good. Yes. It's the snowball effect.

You're doing it. >> You're doing it, >> Tori. We're so I'm so proud of you, girl. That's amazing. You're doing incredible. You're doing absolutely incredible. And the research of figuring out, okay, I can get a $2,000 certification for a $20,000 raise. That's some good ROI right there, Tori. Like, yes. >> And and everybody listening, here's what we're not saying. What you you said it.

>> Yeah. It's >> this isn't I'm going to pause the baby steps. I owe a h 100red grand from undergrad. I'm going to go ahead and take out a $200,000 loan to get a MBA

and I hope that that moves me up or I'm a teacher and I want to go back to school and get a master's degree and I hope this other district hired me. This is somebody in a job who has a needs a credential to move up in this job. She's already crushing it in her company and it's >> and it's $2,000. >> It's 2,000 bucks. Yeah. >> Yes. This is a no-brainer. So Tori, you're awesome.

I love it. Love it. All right, let's go to San Diego. We have Chris on the line.

Hi, Chris. Welcome to the show.

>> Hello. It's a pleasure to talk to you guys. >> Yes. Well, thanks for calling in. How can we help? >> Yeah. So, uh, my wife and I got married 6 months ago, and we've been living in an apartment in San Diego. And her in-law or, u, my in-laws, her parents are offering to build an extension onto

their home so that we can move in and

save money, but we would be paying for the construction of the extension to their home.

>> Figure out.

>> Hey, Chris, I got a good idea. Give me a million dollars >> to increase my home.

>> Yeah. to increase my home value and then uh I'll let you I'll let you live there.

>> Yeah. No, >> I would not do this. >> No. >> No. Um >> but it's interesting though because like financially we could do it.

>> I know. It's not interesting though cuz you'll be living in your in your in-laws house. >> Yes. And then actually for resale value in-law suites are actually not that great because it takes a very specific buyer to even want it. So even for your in-laws, if your in-laws called and said, "We want to build on," I would be like, "Eh, I probably wouldn't. I think they're fine." No, Chris, you guys need to go and live your lives genuinely

because what happens, people get trapped in these situations and then you take out the the construction loan or whatever it is and you're trying to pay it and then something happens and you want to move to Arizona because you got this insane job and it's like we can't because we're stuck here because we promised this and this like you start to have all these strings attached and you guys can't just fly and be free like just Yes. and have a driveway that's just yours, not parking with your in-laws. You know what I mean?

>> If they said, "Hey, we're going to do this anyway, and we will let y'all live here rent free >> for a year or two about that. Do that all day long." >> Um, but y'all, >> you need to build your own equity, too, in your own place. >> Rachel's call out is really important.

The first, you're going to put down $350,000 on this thing. You're going to cash flow it, and then you're going to get the job of a lifetime in Texas. And you're going to be like, "Wow, there's no state income tax. What do we do?" and you're gonna have to take this and then that money is sunk into your in-laws house and I I just wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it.

>> Okay. >> Did we Did we convince you? What do you think? Do you want to go? Do you want to live at your in-laws?

>> Um, you know, I have my own thoughts

here though. What are your thoughts?

You've heard ours. What's yours?

>> Um, it's further in San Diego from my

job. And in terms of dollars, more

dollars would be going out per month, even though it's the same amount, if that makes sense. >> Wait, say it again. Say that.

>> So, we're the amount that we're able to save right now is how much we'd be putting towards the loan, >> but it ties up our money. And if we're ready to move out in our own place in 5 years, Oh, yeah. >> I think it would it would tie us down even more versus saving the same amount in the same amount of time and having that money as liquid.

>> Correct. you are thinking >> 100%. >> What's your what's your wife saying?

>> I guarantee you I know what she says.

>> Um we haven't had a ton of time to talk about it recently, but um I think we're kind of on the same page. I've been sharing u my thoughts with her and she's like, "Yeah, like that totally makes sense." And then we're bouncing it off her parents and kind of having a mutual discussion, but it's all very loose right now. >> Okay. I I want to say something crazy.

Don't have a mutual discussion with her parents. You and your wife have a discussion and then you announce what your decision is. >> Wow. >> Because I don't want them negotiating with you on y'all helping increase the

>> the resale value of their home.

>> You all make a decision and then you say, "Hey, thank you so so much for the offer. Um, we're going to keep we want to stay here in our apartment and we're going to build uh up our savings so that we can get our own place." End of conversation's over.

Yeah, that makes it nice and easy, huh?

>> Now, they they probably have a Oh, go ahead. I >> was say their hearts may be in a great spot. They I think in some situations like this, they genuinely think, of course, >> we're helping and this will be so great.

>> Well, one day we'll flip. We'll move to the we'll move to the in-law suite and we'll give the house to them. I I I mean, I'm telling you, that's what I bet that they can get the house and we'll downsize later or something. >> Or no, we'll move to the in-law suite and they'll keep the house and then we can be around the grandkids.

They've got a whole idea worked out and it's I I don't fault them for a second for coming up with this idea. It's a great plan and housing in San Diego's >> I don't know onebedroom apartments $8 billion. I get it.

>> And to your point, if they had built it and it was there like we had some friends and their parents had like a small home out like by a pool and they lived there for about 2 to 3 years, rent free everything and it was great and then they saved up the money, they went put a down payment, moved into a home.

It was wonderful cuz it was already there. It was part of the system. and they had a good relationship. It was fine and they actually created their savings goals. But Chris, if you're having to cash flow this into something that you can't take the equity out is that's not a smart investment. And I just think having some boundaries uh your first 6 months of marriage, first couple years, I think it's good. Have your own location. You guys figure out life together. But thanks for the call and yeah, congratulations on the new marriage.

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsay

Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseyolutions.com/insurance.

Buying or selling your home is a really big deal and there's so much clickbait in the headlines out there and conflicting data that it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. And so we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So last month the average 15-year fixed rate mortgage had ticked up a bit to 5.56% but it's still lower than 6% which is great. And if you're financially ready, a small increase like that shouldn't be able to hold you back.

So again, this idea that just because prices, interest rates go up a little, down a little, all of it.

Now, the median home prices went up to $415,000 last month, which is typical for the spring markets. Now there's more homes available or more buyers are entering the market. So it is a great time to buy or sell. So, to learn more about the housing market trends and to get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right, let's head to Riley in Memphis, Texas. Hi, Riley. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, how are you guys? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Okay, so I'm going to keep this brief.

Me and my husband, we've been Ramsey people since getting married. Um, and have no debt aside from our house. Um, however, my parents have been uh struggling financially for quite some time. Um, and despite this, my mom will buy things for us and it takes a huge toll on my husband and I. Um, it makes us feel like we're contributing to to their debt. Um, so I was just wondering how do I approach my mom about purchasing things for my family um when they are in debt and can't afford it.

>> Yeah. What's she buying?

>> So, um, she'll buy stuff for our house.

We're not, we just moved into our house and we're not in a position to buy like things like curtains or rugs or things like that and so she'll buy stuff um like that or we just had a daughter as well and so she'll buy um like clothes and things for her >> and you're not asking her to. She's just showing up with stuff.

>> Yes. Yeah.

>> So here's a hard truth. Um

you and your husband can't own her decisions.

>> Yeah. Okay. You can you can you can sit

down with her and say, "Mom, me and my husband really want to grind this thing out ourselves and I'm so grateful for

you always bringing us stuff and all that kind of like what we really want is you just to come hang out with the new baby or come hang out with us. Um, but

really, and I know this sounds ridiculous, we want to grind it out ourselves.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You can't That's what I was >> You can't do anything about. >> I guess >> if she shows up with it, she shows up with it, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's what I was wondering like if it's something I need to change my mindset about, like it's not my problem kind of thing. As as bad as that sounds, but it does make us feel really guilty knowing the place that they're at, especially because we're doing a little bit better than they are.

>> Yeah. I I want to set you free from this. Um, and it's not a oneandone, but

my friend Becky Kennedy, she's a psychologist in New York. She taught me this and it it it's one of those I had a before and after moment, and this is just a year or two ago. Okay.

Do you think having um curtains in your

house, is that a violation of you and your husband's marital values?

>> No. >> No. Do you think getting a gift, is that a violation of your marital values?

No. >> Okay. So, guilt is actually a good thing. It's a thing that our body feels when we do something that violates our core values.

>> What you're feeling is not guilt. You're

trying to take your mom's situation and own it for her.

>> Okay? >> You get what I'm saying?

>> And that's not your cinder block to carry around all the time. Probably underneath the thing you think is guilt.

I bet it's anger.

Yeah. >> I bet you're pissed off that they've you grew up in that house. You know how what money stress feels like and she's now doing it to y'all.

>> Yeah. >> Right. And so it's it's it's what you're feeling I don't think is guilt. I think you're you're mad. I think you're frustrated. Like get your house in order, mom and dad. Right.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of that comes from we actually a few months ago we were doing really really well financially um when my parents were at their worst and we gave them a gift um a

money gift in hopes that it would be kind of a wakeup call. Um >> no you you woke up you woke a dragon.

That's what you woke up.

>> And so I feel like it's kind of a slap in the face. So I do think that's that's kind of makes me and my husband a little bit angry. >> Did they ask for that money gift?

No, it was just something that was put on our heart.

>> But >> tell me about that. It >> So, at this point, this was during Christmas, and at this point, they were really struggling to put food on the table. Um, and trying to give us a good

Christmas, me and my siblings. Um, and so we just felt really saddened by the

situation. um my mom had just gotten laid off from her job. And so we felt um

that possibly um giving a gift of money and then realizing the help that they can that they have received would help them I don't know like feel more motivated um to get back in the workplace um to provide for their family. >> Um >> so >> and it didn't work out that way.

>> Yeah. So one time um

like if if somebody passes away, you bring food, right? Like there's some things you just show up and you you you

just show up without asking. One time my buddy and his wife were he was finishing school. She was they were they were just stressed to to the max. And then she found out she was pregnant. And so I told my wife, "Hey, I want to get them a

house cleaner. I want a whole crew to show up at her house and take care of the whole thing." And my wife looked at me and she's like, "Are you insane?" And I said, "What do you mean?" She said, "The last thing a woman who's drowning in all the stuff needs is her friends to think, oh, she's got a dirty house. Let's clean it for her." >> And so what she told me was, "Sit down with them. They're your friends for 25 years." And say, "Hey, how can we love y'all right now?

We're in a season of blessing." >> And so instead of throwing a check at somebody that's struggling, this somebody you know really well, right?

What do y'all need? How can we love y'all right now?" And let her tell you.

>> And if she has too much ego or pride to say, "Hey, we could really use $500 for groceries." Um, and she says, "Nothing.

We're fine and good." Then let her be an adult and say, "You're fine or good." But you thinking y'all can go in and just dump money on a problem and it's going to motivate them, that's never worked for them ever. and it's not going to work now. And y'all are the ones paying the price for, right? You're upset.

>> And now you're resentful because they're not doing well with the money, with their money, right? The thing that was supposed to help them. And in fact, they're becoming >> still irresponsible and you're in the pathway of it all of them just like throwing their irresponsibility at you with stuff that you're like, "Mom, >> and I I don't want you walking around feeling guilty because y'all are in a season of blessing right now." >> Yeah. So, what's the Yeah.

What's the boundary, John, for adult an adult child, right, Riley? and the parents like >> take take care of your money really well. You and your husband be good stewards of what you got >> and keep an open dialogue with your mom that question always. How can I love you today?

I asked my wife that. She asked me that. But that's a great great question for your kids.

>> Yeah. >> And if they say, "Well, we just need $1,000 a month from here on out." Then you can say, "I don't want to contribute to that." or I'll walk you through your finances if you want to talk money, but I'm not just going to throw money at a problem over and over because then you are tilling the soil for resentment.

Right. >> Right. Yeah. >> And so I agree.

>> Own that. Say, "I want to love you. I want to I want our relationships to say good and just throwing money at a problem." Right. So if you want to talk about how to get your money right, if you want to talk about budgeting, if you want to talk about this Ramsey stuff that me and my husband do that has helped us get this clear, I'm I'm in all day long.

And if you have a need like, hey, we don't have any groceries, we'll be there for you 100 times out of 100. >> Yeah, we can feel that need. >> But man, when you get to just >> Well, when they when money is just thrown at a problem, anything, this could be friendships, parents to children, children to parents, I mean, all of it. When it's being thrown at a problem, but the problem itself is not being addressed, it just magnifies the dysfunction and it becomes a bigger problem of the problem, right?

It it rarely goes in and fixes it.

Like, we want to do that. And cuz we are magnifying the good that is happening, not the dysfunction. And >> but I will say this, sometimes that sentiment, which I agree with 100%.

um is used to also, hey, there's a guy

hungry on the side of the street. I'm not going to give him any money. He needs to get it. Sometimes the problem to solve is that guy's hungry right now.

He needs a place to stay tonight, right?

We're going to solve that. Like, so I I want to be generous across the board.

But when it comes to systemic stuff like this in your house, man, sitting down and having the harder conversation is always more valuable.

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You

work way too hard to be broke and feel

broke and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the Every Dollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you. You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go

download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

Our scripture today comes from Isaiah 43:19.

See, I am doing a new thing now. It springs up. Do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the wilderness and streams in the wasteland. Jim Collins said, "The critical question is not whether you have luck, but what you do with the luck that you get."

Uh, do you remember, this is so random, one time we were hosting together. Every time I do it, I kind of laugh to myself because I have this memory of us hosting together and I didn't say our scripture of the day. I just started saying, "See, I am doing it." I just started writing to the scripture. >> We were just hanging out on the air and Rachel starts speaking in like New King Jame, old King James version.

I was like, "Uh." >> He said, "What are you saying?" I was like, "It's our scripture of the day." >> She's been reading all those like fairy Viking romances or whatever.

>> Anyway, just always makes me laugh. I'm always like, "I need to say scripture of the day." And I don't just start saying, "See, I am doing a new thing." No, it springs up. Although when we're hanging out, just like you and me and Sheil and Winston, you do just sometimes break into these long scriptural >> some monologue. No. Yeah. No.

>> All right, let's go to Columbus, Ohio,

and we have Oh, Alexa, what a name to have in the world today. Hi, Alexa.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, good afternoon. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

Yeah, my husband and I are exciting

about two to three months away from completing baby step two. Yes. But realized that we are not aligned on what

to do with our credit card once they are paid off. >> Okay. >> And I'm in the camp of closing them. He is not. And so I'm just looking for talking points on how to help him make make him feel good about that decision.

>> Some talking points. Um okay. Okay. So, when you say he doesn't want to close it out, does he want to keep it the credit card in case of an emergency or is he wanting to keep it for expenses but pay it off every month? Like what is he looking for when it comes to the credit card? >> He's in the camp of it's a good credit building tool and then more so in case of an emergency, why not is what he usually uses. >> Yes. Okay.

Well, my talking points, which Jonathan could probably get into the psychology of just uh what you're desiring, Alexa, for as

husband and wife, you know, how he can appro how you can approach that with him on more the emotional level, but from just the financial side, you know, what what we

find is people who especially rack up

credit card debt throughout the month and say, "We're going to pay it off." um more I think it's like right close to 50% of Americans don't and so half the

people are telling themselves a lie that they can afford it when they really can't and if your credit card is your

emergency fund then you're just you are adding risk back into your life and what I think it does is I think it slows down the motivation to actually save and have a fully funded emergency fund that should be your safety net you should be your safety net you know a credit card company and then when it goes to building credit score. I mean, yeah, if he's wanting to go, you know, get loans, then yeah, you will have to have a credit score.

you would, but if you did, then having a credit score would be important. But we believe you don't have to live with debt, so you don't have to have a credit score. And for a mortgage, that's the one type of debt we're okay with that you can actually do manual underwriting.

You don't even have to have a credit score to do that. So, um, so there's a way to live life without a credit score, but you really are choosing to live life debtree, which ultimately, which is why we do this show. We really do believe it it brings the ultimate peace when you don't owe anyone anything and you have autonomy over your money. So, >> can I give you a bad like an example that's probably not fair, Alexa?

>> Sorry. How long have y'all been married?

>> Married two weeks. >> Oh, two. Sweet. Y'all are just in this.

How long did y'all date?

>> We've been together for about eight years. >> Gross. That's a decade. Awesome. Okay.

Imagine I'm going to be ridiculous. Will you be ridiculous with me?

>> Sure. >> Okay. Imagine y'all both cheated on each other at the beginning of your dating relationship and then y'all both decided it's you and me. ride or die. We're going to do this thing. And then y'all were both like, "But let's keep those one night stands

numbers in our phone just in case you get annoying." >> Oh my gosh. >> Right. It's ridiculous. Right. It's ridiculous. You would never do that.

>> You would say, "No, no, no. We're married. We're going to figure this thing out." And so, if we have a fight, if we don't like each other for a while, which is every marriage, if we're annoying each other, we're going to sit down and figure this out. If you work like crazy to get out of debt and you're like, "Well, let's just keep these things open just in case, you're going to use them.

If you don't have that number in your phone, you're going to have to sit down and figure out, all right, we had the fridge go out and the transmission fell out of the car. We have to figure this out.

And >> be a one car family for a month until we save up and pay for it. >> Yeah. You You will figure out how to do it right. And so I for me, I'll tell you this. Uh it's why I keep social media on a separate phone. I'm not good enough.

Those the tech folks who created these social media, they're better than me.

They are better than me. So I have to put a bunch of steps in front of me.

It's a tool I have to use for work. So it has to go on a separate phone with an off switch that goes in my bag, etc., etc. When it comes to credit cards, I'm not good enough. I'm not. They're better than me. Always knowing I could always just quickly jump to this thing. Um, so

I that's why I think you close them. You

clo You set up a bunch of hurdles between you and where you actually want to go.

>> Love it. I appreciate it. Thank you.

>> Yeah, you bet. And congratulations two weeks in. I'm glad you're already have having this big fight. Good luck.

>> All right, let's go to John in Denver.

Hi, John.

>> Hi. Uh, had a question on your guys's

thoughts on public loan forgiveness.

Mhm. >> Um my girlfriend uh is graduating

medical school and is starting her residency. Um and the 3 years of her residency will count towards the 10 years needed for public loan forgiveness. Um so didn't know if that's

something uh from a we should pursue standpoint or

if it's more so hey we can aggressively pay this off once she gets her first um

kind of normal paying doctor job. Yeah.

>> Um, >> or what your guys' stances were on public loan forgiveness. >> So, I'll tell you this. I have I have a really significant built-in bias. And I'll give you the other side of my bias.

I worked at a law school for six, seven

years on for a while. And I had a number

of some of the most brilliant, compassionate minds forego

working in big law where they could go make a whole bunch of money. and they chose to go do public service law with the idea that they were going to be a part of this loan forgiveness program and then they all got hosed.

They they weren't they weren't like they kept getting denied or not reimbursed or delayed or an administrative error or clerical error or some sort of mess. And so I have been ranting I don't trust I

don't trust the government to come in and pay off any I don't trust them to do anything they say they're going to do in 10 years. I I mean go back 10 years politically. Could you have imagined today? No.

Right. And so when I look into the future 10 years, I would say, man, I trust me and my wife more than anybody else in the world. That said, I want to also give the other side is the public service loan forgiveness has gone up. They have been processing more and they've been getting through this backlog of millions of people.

would continue to pay on it if it was my house just because I don't trust what's going to happen in 10 years. Um, but that that that I'm telling you what I would do in my home. I'm telling you what I did do in my home. My wife and I paid off our our student loans of our

doctoral programs um that could have qualified for public service because we didn't trust the outcome,

>> right? Which and my only thought is and then this is uh um my nervousness I

guess or you know compare and contrast whether you put money on the market etc.

um is that she has over it'll be over about 600,000.

Um we don't have any consumer debt. Um

really >> the only thing we have is >> Well, it's not we John, it's your girlfriend. So keep things separate.

>> Yeah. >> Right. Correct. Um which in the the plan is trending in >> a good direction. I'm glad. I'm glad.

>> Yes. That's Yeah. Uh no, I don't want to spoil anything, but uh that's where uh things are heading. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, we Yeah.

We've heard the good side, bad side. We tend to lean on >> I'm going to lean every time >> personal responsibility and take care of it. Um, but we do know people, we've had people call in on the show and they've chosen to give their life that way and and it worked out for them and that's great. Um, >> $600,000 is feels like an insane gamble

to take on the government going to do what they say they're going to do in 10 years. >> Yep. All right, John, thanks for the call. Uh, great show everyone. John, thanks so much. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 78. Getting Clarity Around Your Money Changes Everything | January 2, 2026


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Hey, before we get rolling, listen up.

If you want to win with money in 2026,

you can't keep living normal. Normal's broke. You need a plan. Get a

personalized plan and start living like

no one else by downloading our Every Dollar app today.

Normal is broke and [music] common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw.

This hour, the number to call is88255225.

It's your show. We're here to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Rihanna is with us in Minneapolis. Rihanna, welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thank you so much for having me today. >> Yeah, absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, so I just have a question for you guys. Um, so was I right to break off my engagement because of long-term money issues and bad spending habits? I've always been disciplined with saving and planning for money, but he struggled with overspending and staying employed.

Now that he's moved out, I've taken on full full financial responsibilities myself. How can I stay on top of my bills while saving and protecting my future? >> Oo, that was like 20 20 things in one.

>> Okay, we'll we'll tackle the first part first. So, um, were [clears throat] you right to break this off because of red flags that were not attended to that he clearly this was a value you had >> and this is a value every woman has is if I'm going to marry some guy, he's got to be able to do at least two things.

Provide and protect. Right? That's the reason why we find a mate primally speaking. And you're saying he can't provide for the future. This was red flags that this guy can't hold a job.

He's going to continually go into debt, put us in a financial bind. Therefore, I'm out. And essentially, he opted out of this engagement by continuing these habits that you made clear. Am I hearing that right? >> Yes, that's correct.

>> Wow. >> I mean >> I mean that's your choice. That's your prerogative. >> I say bullet dodged cuz this is it's either this or a divorce later on.

I'd rather, you know, nip it in the bud while we can. >> Yeah. So many people I would really I mean I wasn't there. I'm just going by what you said but based on what you said I would applaud you for it cuz so many people >> ignore red flags cuz you get so far down the line it's like I can't turn back now and it's kind of like a sunk cost >> or scarier.

>> Well >> never going to happen. >> Okay. Now if he called into the show Brianna what would he say if he were to defend his honor?

You know, I I I would say that he he's always tried to maintain a job, but it's just never worked out. Before I previously knew him, he was employed for seven years doing software sales, and now he just can't ever since I got together with him, he can't hold a job just because the market's been so unsteady. >> And how long was the entire thing? How how long was the dating and then the the the engagement?

>> Um, total everything was about two and a half years. Listen, I think that's long enough to get a a read on the situation.

It's not like this was super fast. I I think that again, I wasn't there, but you made the choice. You had enough time to see a track record and you seem like

your thoughts are composed, so I'm going to ride with you on this because you are the one telling us your side of it, and it makes sense to me. Now, he could call in and say something different, but still at the end of the day, it's your choice. So, >> yeah. Thank you. So what's the second part of the question?

>> Yeah. So I would like to be able to better now that I've taken on I've asked him to move out. I've taken on full financial responsibility of like paying our rent and then um while we were together I purchased a car um because I was able to make up that payment with having him here. Now that I have >> Hold on, Brianna. You went into debt during the engagement.

>> Yes. And that was primarily because he kept telling me that I needed a new car.

What were you driving before?

>> I was driving a Nissan Ultima that needed quite a bit of maintenance.

>> Got you. And what did you get? What did you >> I got um 2025 Mazda CX70.

>> What do you owe? >> I owe about 50 on that.

>> Shoot. >> What do you make?

>> I make about um about $100,000 a year.

>> That's a lot of car even for your income. >> Is that your only debt or you have more?

Um, I have about uh 15 grand in student loans and then I have like two grand in credit card debt, but that's it.

>> Okay, here's my thing, Briana. I was really team Briana and now the more I hear you, the more I go, I'm not sure you believe in your own principles cuz you wanted this guy to clean up his act financially while you were an accomplice to the crimes.

[laughter] So, it's like, how am I supposed to take you seriously if I'm the fiance going, you really need to get better with your spending habits and then I'm over here financing a $50,000 car. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's difficult because he drives a a BMW X4M competition. So it

was just that terrible to get a nice car. >> So you were trying to keep up with him and it's his fault. But still lifestyle.

>> It does seem like though it was more Can I I'm a ride on the fence on this. I I hear what George is saying and he is not wrong. Uh but the other part is I feel like you were more on the why doesn't he have a job regularly >> side of things.

is the fact that it will this guy be employed or will he be sitting on my couch all day when I come home? Is that Did I get that right?

>> Yeah. And that's kind of what it had been before, too. So, that's why I had asked him to move out.

>> Because to your I I am playing devil's advocate here. I'm just I'm just letting you know. >> She got me riled up. That's all I'm saying.

She got a plank in her eye and she's looking at the spec. >> Because here's the thing. There are plenty of people in the world who are fine with debt. We know that.

We don't agree with that. But plenty of people are like, "Yeah, I got my car, not my credit card." For a lot of people, that's not the problem. The problem is when you have somebody who's not working and seems like they might not be able to hold a job and seems like they might be a tad bit lazy. I could see how that's a bigger red flag to you.

Um, in the grand scheme of things, that being said, you can't be the what is it? The pot calling the kettle. >> Black. >> Black.

>> Yeah. No, I see both sides. I think you were right to break off the engagement and I think we need to accept a little more responsibility that we weren't quite the angel that we maybe made ourselves out to be and he's the devil here. I think both of you had bad money habits.

money moves and you were looking to him to be a leader and guide you and he couldn't do that. >> He was in a place of weak weakness too.

And so it's hard to fault him for that as much as I want to be like well this guy's trash and you should [laughter] I think you both have some things to work on. Can we agree?

>> Yes. No, I completely agree.

>> And I hope that if you if this is a value you have, I want someone who can provide for me. I don't think that means I want someone who can float my lifestyle no matter what and afford a payment. I want you to reframe this and go, how can I put myself in such a good financial position? Then when I do meet the right guy, we are building wealth together instead of just making stupid decisions together.

>> And there's part of this where if let's say you, you know, you've you've broken it off, you guys have gone your separate ways. If it's meant to be, you could go get back together. Like you could give him a that could have been the kick in the butt that he needed to go out and really show and prove who he's going to be because the truth is you've just never seen it.

want to see. You don't want all the talking. You want somebody to be about it. >> I love that Jade is not giving up on love here. Is there [laughter] is there a shot this could still work, Brianna, or is this like long gone?

>> You know, we've tried to make it work.

Um, we still like sometimes see each other and stuff, but it's just I don't see any motivation from him to want to be better. Um, he's determined to get a job that's been in the process of about six weeks now and he still >> has been doing any kind of work.

>> Um, no. >> What's he doing all day?

>> I don't know.

>> I think you better cut it loose.

>> Yeah. >> Well, the writing was on the wall, Briana. And uh the good news is you're going to be real busy cleaning up this mess of your own for a while. And I think you also we need to own up to the fact that we made a lot of decisions that were codependent and hinging on someone we weren't married to.

>> I can make the rent as long as he pays.

I can make the payment as long as he's in my life. And I think all of that is why we tell people never combine financial lives or for that matter physical lives living together before you're married. It just gets too messy because this could be on the other side.

Mhm. And yeah, now you're going to now you're going to feel that being the only one covering that rent.

>> Yeah, I'm wishing you the best as as you clean this up. Personally, I would sell that car as soon as possible. I wouldn't even work on paying it off. I would get rid of it. There's no reason you you need to be driving a $50,000 car walking out of this mess. So, best of luck to you, Briana.

>> [music]

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[music]

[music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw. The number to call is88255225.

Don't be scared. You can't DM. You got to call in. It's the only way, my Gen Z friends. I know it's uncomfortable to call on a phone, but they still do that.

I found out. >> You can't text in. You have to call.

>> One day we'll get there. That'll be like our Patreon edition. That'll be fun. All right. Gabrielle is on the line in Detroit. Gabrielle, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thank you. Um, my question is,

should I apply for my first credit card so I don't have to continue paying for everything in cash?

>> No. [laughter] >> Where is this coming from?

>> So, right now you're paying for everything with actual physical dollars.

>> Um, cash I mean as in well that in just

money in my bank account >> like your own money. Okay. And so what is your fear with using your own money from your own bank account with a debit card?

Um, I guess I mean I know that a credit card can help me build my credit. I do have other lines of credit open, just not a credit card. And also I guess sometimes

it's going to sound silly, but it's kind of hard to let go of some cash all at once. So the idea of paying it in increments by the due date is somewhat appealing. What if I told you that that is that's your body saying >> don't make a stupid decision.

>> When you say letting go of a lot of money at once, what would be the purchase here?

>> Um I don't have anything in particular, just my day-to-day transaction. So things like groceries, gas, maybe like a leisurely item here and there. >> So you'd rather lump it all into one giant mountain and then 30 days later have that come out of your account if you're lucky?

I guess not.

>> That's even scarier to me because I've been there. I was that guy who opened the credit card to build the credit, who racked up a bunch of debt on there and the barren the balance carried. So, I'm telling you, as a guy who did this, you don't want to do this. How old are you?

>> I'm 24. >> Okay. Have you ever had a credit card?

>> No. >> Wow. And you've survived to tell the tale. >> I just think it's interesting.

Okay. Our screen says I don't want to pay for everything in cash, which kind of feels a little bit like um it doesn't feel like it's as much of a credit card and building is it for building credit or is there something else behind this like are you I'm just trying to understand because the this might sound simple but in my mind I'm thinking if I want to buy something I should use my money to buy it. That's the whole purpose of working is so that you have money to purchase the things that you want and need and you feel purpose in doing that.

And so I there's part of me that kind of feels like credit cards take away that feeling of satisfaction.

Where does that bother you?

>> Like I'm trying to understand kind of your take on this.

Um, I like I said, I guess just I you

know, people always tell me that you should have a credit card to build your credit. I don't know if I should need that. Just my friends and family.

>> Are your friends outstandingly wealthy that you look up to them and go, I want to be them when I grow up.

>> Um, not exactly.

>> So, >> there's one reason to not listen to them. >> There's there's a f there's a foundational difference here. And so where George and I are coming from is we're I mean you might be new to this show but everyone here is kind of the mind not kind of we are of the mind that we don't need or rely on credit at all

for our lives because like I said before we have jobs our jobs earn money and we've learned to live on the money that we earn. And when we do that we keep ourselves out of debt and we keep ourselves out of risk in general in life because we're just using and spending the money that we have. We're using that money to pay for our day-to-day needs.

We're using that money to save up emergency funds so that we don't need to rely on credit cards. And so that's where George and I are approaching this.

And it sounds like some of the people that you've been talking to have a different uh view of life. And their view of life is your money is not enough. And so you have to get credit because they can give you the money you need to have the lifestyle you want. And the only way to get credit is if you can have debt. And so it's this it's this uh

pingpong between debt and building credit and more debt and building credit. And when you do your life like that, you're just constantly caught in that that limbo. You're never debtree and you're never actually living on the money that you earn and you're in this constant state of risk to play that game when you don't have to.

>> That's understandable. I appreciate you sharing that. You know, and I want to take it a step further and George can help me with this because I think Gabrielle, what happens it's truly, and

I don't say this to be ugly to anybody, I truly think a lot of people don't know and don't have the the education to understand you can buy cars without a credit score and you can get apartments without a credit score and you can buy homes without a credit score. They that's not taught in our culture. I mean, we're really the only ones talking about it over here at Ramsey Solutions.

It's become controversial over time just to pay cash for things >> because when you pay cash for things, no one's really making any additional money off of you. So, a lot of companies don't like that. They don't like that we say this. And I kind of want you to hear

that. Like, we're teaching you something that you can live and be self- sustainable. And no one's constantly making money off you, right? They're not making money off you on interest and payments and late fees. That's that's really what this argument is about. You don't have to play that game. So, I hope you hear that with a clear, you know,

what is it? Clear minds, clear hearts.

[laughter] >> Yes. >> Clear eyes. Clear clear eyes, full hearts can't lose is what it is.

>> Thank you, James. Texas forever. I'm

curious. You said you wanted this to build credit. Why do you feel like you need to build credit?

>> Um, I guess in case I ever needed to take like another loan out in the future, cuz right now, like I said, I do have three other lines of credit open.

Um, >> what are those lines of credit?

>> I have a mortgage, a car loan, and some student loans. >> Okay. And so your path is let's get more lines of credit to get more lines of credit to get more debt to get more lines of credit. That seems to be the path.

>> I guess that's what I thought I should be doing. >> Well, I'm trying to what I'm trying to do is unravel this to show you the the insanity that America has fallen into.

And so when you really look at what credit scores are for, it's a it's a

magic number that was given to us by the credit gods to get us into more debt.

And so when you decide, I'm done with debt. I don't want a car loan anymore. I don't want the student loan anymore. You no longer have a need for credit. And even when it comes to buying a house, I've bought a house with no credit score. And we teach people, save up and pay for a a car you can afford in cash.

>> Mhm. >> And then you don't need credit because they don't check your credit score when you pay cash. Because let's just play this out down the line, Gabrielle. What happens if you What happens if you do what you called in to do?

What you just say, you know what? I don't want to use my own money anymore. I'm going to use credit credit cards. What happens is each month you have a revolving balance and if you're lucky, you pay it off.

If if you're not, you you keep some of it there. And so you end up now with a car note, a student loan, and then credit cards. And I'm my question for you is what does that get you?

besides debt? >> I I guess the material item of whatever it was I purchased, >> which was probably not a wise me.

>> And here's what I found. When you use someone else's money, you look at it differently. When you use your own money, you start to go, "Oh crap, that's money leaving my bank account right now." >> Well, that's science, George. Like that's actual there's actual psychological studies on what happens when you use credit card that's plastic versus credit card that's your debit card versus cold hard cash. Your body

becomes more and more removed from the process the more and more it's removed from being actual money in your hand.

Even something like Apple Pay even though it's your money. >> But their tagline is cashless made effortless. They want to make spending so effortless. And here's what I found Gabrielle now for 10 years living with a debit card. When it hurts less, it costs more. You spend more, you're hoping you

can make the payment, you're lucky to make the payment. I found when I use my debit card, I don't need hope or luck. I can actually pay attention to my money and when I run out, I can't spend anymore. >> And to me, that is a great way to build wealth and it adds really healthy guard rails.

So, that's why I'm recommending all of this to you and I unpack all of this in the credit cards chapter of my new book, Breaking Free from Broke. I'm telling you, you will want to take a shower after reading that chapter. I unpack the studies. I go through every objection that's in your mind.

I'll show you how to live live life outside of the credit card and credit score system. So, hang on the line. Our team's going to pick up and we will gift you Breaking Free from Broke. You can choose audiobook, ebook, the hardcover copy, however you like to read.

We want to make sure we get it into your ears or in your hands. Thank you so much for the call. Great question. Love your heart around this.

And I hope we've convinced you to stay away from these gross companies cuz listen, Capital One's out here sponsoring the Taylor Swift Tour. We can't afford tickets to the Taylor Swift Tour. Who is winning here? It's not us.

It's the companies with the big buildings downtown.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> You're listening to the Ramsay Show.

Thanks for being here. I'm Jade Warshaw.

Next to me is bestselling author George Camel. Today's question of the day is brought brought to you by Y Rei. If you're in over your head with private student loans and tired of getting calls from collection agencies, I know how that feels. You need Y refi. Y Refi

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>> Today's question comes from Peter in Wisconsin. My son let his home get to within 10 days of foreclosure before telling my wife and me that they were in trouble. He has $350,000 in equity. I

could not let this happen. So, I paid the 35,000 that was owed, which made them current on their loan. I've explained to him and his wife they need to sell the house and get the equity out and start using the Ramsay plan to manage their money. Now, they won't talk to me or my wife. Did I do the right thing in helping them out?

Well, clearly not. if it destroyed the relationship. I think it was well intended and a very sweet thing to do, but the problem is they didn't seem to ever ask for your help or your opinion in these matters. >> And it it all has to do with how you explained it.

Were you like, "Look at what you did. You guys never should have been, you know, like that's different than [laughter] explaining it in a better way." >> No, he seems like a wonderful person. I think it's I think it's on them that, you know, they reacted this way cuz he said before telling my wife that they were in trouble, so he came to him. >> Yeah.

This had clearly been going on for months. This foreclosure doesn't happen after one month of missing a payment.

And he goes, "Hey, we're in trouble." So clearly he was looking for help by going to the parents, letting them know about this problem. >> And so I think truthfully there's a lot of shame and guilt here.

>> I think you're right. >> And now it's it makes the relationship kind of like a business transaction where you you come across like a lender >> and now it's awkward cuz I need a daddy to swoop in and fix my mess. Well, they don't say there is an interesting piece missing from this on whether or not the kids owe the 35,000 back to mom and dad.

>> It doesn't sound like he he wants or needs the money. >> So, yeah, if he said, "Well, when I asked for the money, they stopped talking to that would make more sense." >> Yeah. >> Versus a gift of like, "Hey, listen. I'm going to get you guys out of this bind, but you got to please follow this plan." I I bet it was a well-intended situation, >> but my worry is >> if you didn't save them, like they're going to be right back in this mess.

And so, >> exactly.

>> And so, even getting them current on the loan doesn't solve their problem, that's why he's saying, "You guys need to sell the house, get the equity out, do the do this the right way." So, my fear is they end up right back here and go, "Dad, I'm in a bind again. We're behind three months on payments." Because they didn't actually change their habits. Yeah, I agree with you, George.

Uh, call into the show and maybe we can talk more through it. It's a very interesting situation, but did I do the right thing in helping them out? I think it was a noble thing to do. It's what, you know, personally, I love my daughter.

If she was in a bind, I would do anything for >> 100%. Yeah. >> But again, if she didn't ask for it, I don't know. Uh, but they asked, he came to them with the problem.

My daughter knocks on my door and says, "Hey, we're on the brink of foreclosure. I'm going to do whatever I can to help them out." Yeah.

So, I don't know that I could have done anything differently. >> Yeah. I mean, it's different. There's one thing. It's kind of like you don't want to be an enabler. Like if it was a situation where this has been going on for a long time and helping them would be in a sense giving a drunk a drink or

it's very possible that they just had, you know, a slurry of really tough things happen and it just resulted in this, you know, foreclosure situation and mom and dad were like, "Listen, we can help, you know." So more details are needed. But George, I think you're exactly right. >> I would have been like, "Hey, I'll give you the 35, but you guys are going to go through Financial Peace University tomorrow." >> Yeah. Matter of fact, >> you're going to go through every lesson.

If we can send that to Peter to to send to the the the son and >> daughter have his email, right, producer James. >> Yeah, we'll try to we'll give that to them as a gift and see if we can get them on track cuz I want to help them for the rest of their life, not one time in a bind. >> Yeah, that's good. All right, we've got Ann in St.

Cloud, Minnesota.

>> Hi, this is Ann. Um, thanks for taking a

call today. >> Sure. >> You bet. >> What's up? Um, so my question for you is

basically should I quit my job? So a

little bit of background. My husband and I, we got married, had a baby, and bought a house all in one. >> I hear that baby hooting and hollering.

>> Yeah, he is going to be a little bit whiny in the background. So my apologies. >> Did you say you got married, bought a house, and had a baby all in how long?

>> One year. >> Woo! Mama. Okay. >> And what's your current job? Wow. Um, so I work as a min administrator for a ministry and the problem is there is some morally

corrupt stuff going on with the leadership.

>> Yeah, it's so unfortunate. It was like a

dream job when I took it.

>> Um, and so good for our family, but now it's like I kind of have no choice but to leave. >> Yeah.

>> So, what's next? just kind of >> we know you're leaving. >> We need to line something up. I don't want you just quitting and going, "Well, I'll just figure it out over the next four months." >> Yeah. What What's the income you need to try to make up here?

>> Well, barebones budget, my husband and I will be able to make it by without even dipping into our emergency fund. So, that's the good. >> So, living off of his income?

>> Yes. He can take overtime, which is super super helpful, but it's not a way to live. >> Yeah. So, what what were you making?

>> I was making about 3,800 a month.

>> Okay. So, we need to make up that income or at least most of it.

>> Mhm. And that's kind of the thing. My husband's really supportive. Um, but I

don't know what my next step is. And my I don't want to put my child in daycare.

>> So, I might look for some at home admin work, but I'm really just >> not even sure where to start. Well, um, let's kind of start by the looking at the financial picture so we can know what needs to be done. Do you What baby step are you guys in? Do you have debt?

>> Um, luckily we're in baby steps four, five, and six. >> Good. Okay. >> How much is in the emergency fund?

>> We have about um $36,000.

>> Wow. That's a big old emergency fund.

>> Is that too much? >> Well, it sounds like it's a lot more than six months based on what you've told me.

>> Yeah. Both of our take-home pay is um

about 7,500 a month.

>> Okay. Alto together. >> Okay. Good. So you >> So you're looking more for help on the career side of what to do next for a job? >> Um I'm looking for that and just if I can afford to stay home with him, too.

So if could I afford to? >> Well, you just told us on a bare bones budget you can get by, but that's if he works overtime. So it's not super >> no way to live, >> right? So, we need to get his income up or you need to work part-time in order for this to make sense.

>> So, what would it look like? You know, you were doing the job in the ministry.

Is that something that you would want to do again at another ministry? Do you know, tell us more about what you feel like you're qualified to do and the work that you would want to do.

>> I I have put her on hold with the baby yelling. You can get her back, Jade.

>> Let's see. Where is she? Line two. Sorry about that. Ann, >> there it is. [laughter] >> That baby's got pipes. I know. She's She's rolling in. Here's what I think.

I'll just kind of give you the synopsis of what I think. I think you guys need to get on to Every Dollar. Do you have Every Dollar. >> We do.

>> Okay. Then I think you guys need to get on there and figure out, okay, what what amount of money? Cuz it may not be a full 3,800, but what amount of money would take you out of that unsustainable place to where it's like, okay, we're not on bare bones. Husband's not having to work overtime all the time, and we can kind of live a life like this.

and maybe it is 3,800, but then after that it's all about you sitting down and going, "Okay, what can I do? What would I like to do?" And then I'm getting on all the sides. I'm getting on glass door. I'm looking to see what's available.

I'm looking for work from home options. I'm looking for part-time options. And I think at this point, you're just kind of pounding the pavement, as they say, and knocking on doors to get another job. >> And we can help you with that.

Ken Coleman has a great book called Find the Work You're Wired to Do cuz maybe this is the career path in the administrative space. Maybe it's not. So, we're going to send you this resource. With that, you're going to get the get clear career assessment.

Take that and then start talking to your friends and say, "Hey, does this line up? All of this assessment stuff, what I'm does this line up with who you know me to be, my personality, what I'm wired to do." And that might be a work from home admin job.

>> And you know, maybe you go make some crazy money and you go, I want to get a full-time nanny in house cuz I want to do daycare. You have the options. But we do have to figure out the financial piece. >> Yeah.

But the good news in this is because you guys did the right thing. It frees you up to now for you to be able to do the right thing with this job. You don't have to stay in a job where, you know, morality is being questioned or, you know, negative things are happening or even illegal things. I don't know what's going on over there, but you got the emergency fund and you can get out and you can get another job hopefully that pays more.

>> [music]

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[music]

[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel [music] joined by Jade Warshaw. If you didn't know, we've got a Ramsey Network app where you can tune in to all of the shows distractionfree, including this show. All three hours are in the app and we also have a place where you can ask questions and we'll occasionally answer those on air.

So this one is from Dylan from the Ramsey Network app. What does he have to say, Jade?

Should we wait to get married so she can graduate debtree?

>> Wow, >> that's very interesting. >> What an intersection. >> I want to know more. I want to know what the time frame is like. Are we talking

um six months? You know, are we talking

four years? I want to know more about this. Um my thought, >> can we cash flow? If we don't get the grants and scholarships, can we still cash flow? >> Yes. >> And avoid debt. >> I mean, there's part of this where I go, okay, I'm thinking traditional college

student, so maybe she's what, 18, 19 going in. Uh,

I don't know, George. I feel like we need more information. I'm going to say if it's a year to postpone it, maybe.

And I want to know how much school is talking. When did you plan on getting married? Were you going to wait for her to graduate anyways? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So many questions. So little answers.

>> So little answers. I can't answer this in good faith and really know what's going on. >> And how much would we be? Is we talking $100,000, >> right? Or are we talking $40,000? I don't know. Can you even go to school for 40,000? Um, >> it's an interesting one though. I don't think there's a straight answer here of absolutely you should wait or absolutely don't wait and just cash flow it.

>> But Dylan, call in. I want to know more about this. >> I know. And I Does it have to be for the entire four years or are we talking semester by semester? Maybe you take it semester by semester and go, okay, you know, she starts Okay, it's about to be November. So, the new semester comes up here after Christmas break. Maybe she

does that one and you guys reassess >> and go, can we cash flow the rest and just combine incomes and get married and we've got it from here. So that that would kind of be my thing is how can we put ourselves in a position to not need the grants and scholarships >> if we're itching to get that wedding and get married. >> Yeah. Well, either way either way we don't go into debt. I think that's the key point coming out of here. Um

>> debt's not on the table and if that if it means you have to wait a little bit that might be the the question the the solution. All right, we got some. That was good. Good question, though. All right, >> it was all right. We need more details.

>> Let's go to [laughter] Todd in Phoenix, who we can actually talk to. That's nice. Todd, what is happening with you?

>> Hi. Uh, we're My wife and I, we've been kind of going back and forth on selling our home to pay off uh some debt. I'

I've been kind of an idiot the last few years. And uh >> we can all say that at some point in our lives. >> Thank you for having the self-awareness. Yes. >> Pulled money out when, you know, to build a pool and do things we probably didn't need to do. Um, and you know, we

I I guess the the issue, we pay our bills, we eat, we we live, you know,

pretty pretty normal lives, but it's

gotten tighter and tighter and it feels like we're not not really moving at all.

Kind of just spinning our wheels. And so, >> what's your household income?

Uh about 170.

>> And what how much consumer debt do you have? >> Everything but the mortgage. >> Uh about 182.

>> Okay. Yeah, you're feeling it. What kind of debt? So you tell us, can you break down that 182? And by the way, does that include the mortgage? >> Yes. >> No. >> Oh, it doesn't. Okay. Can you break it down for us?

So, we did a a heliloc for 60 um and

built a pool and actually paid off paid

off some debt with that which we then kind of racked up again.

>> Uh another uh personal loan for about 57

uh got a car loan that's got 17 on it.

>> What was the personal loan for? What' you spend the 50? Is it >> 57,000 or 5700?

>> 57,000. >> Okay. What was that for? >> Really stupid. Uh I I I I outsmart

myself from time to time and I thought, "Okay, I'm going to do this personal loan and we're going to pay off debt." Like, we paid off both of our cars and uh and and used it what I thought was

kind of the right way, but then have since uh just kind of racked up money in

other areas. >> Okay. >> So, you you took on debt to pay off other debt while changing zero habits, and you were right back to where you were. >> That's a cautionary tale for anybody listening. We talk about that all the time. So, you're teaching a lot of people. Thank you, Todd, for being transparent. What else do you have? So, the 57,000 personal loan. What's next?

>> Uh, I've got the now I have another car loan now for 17. Uh, about 20 grand in

credit card debt and then 28 and like I

did a debt consolidation kind of thing to get rid of uh kind of same same

thing. Get rid of credit cards to >> man. Okay. transferred to zero, you know, 0% like transfer.

>> Are we are we done playing the game, you think? Like, are you >> You're like, "All right, I'm not going to move debt around to other debt. I want a way out. So, what are you thinking about doing?" >> You know, >> well, so debating [clears throat] selling like uh my wife is not not on

board. Uh, >> you wanted to sell the house >> possibly selling our house to pay off pay off debt, but it wouldn't it wouldn't pay off everything. >> But do you want to know why I don't like that for you? Do you want to know why I don't like that for you?

>> Cuz it's the same thing you've been doing. >> It's another one of Todd's schemes, Todd shortcuts. And I think, and don't get me

wrong, um, when people get a great opportunity, maybe they get a large sum of money, they get an inheritance, they get a large bonus, or they were going to move anyway, and it ends up clearing their debt, I'm happy for them. But you have laid out a very long pattern of the

same behavior. And I'm not getting on to you for it. I'm just telling you what I see based on what you said. And I'm worried because the worst thing ever, Todd, would be that you sell your house

even when your wife didn't want to. when you wind up in debt again. So for you >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Walking through the Because I always tell people when you walk through the baby steps, right, George, that is the opportunity for you to change your habits because it's built in. You can't get out of the baby steps without changing your habits. It's automatic almost. Yeah. >> And so I as as painful and as tough as

it can be, I would prescribe if I were the person writing the prescription that you walk through the baby steps and you do this the oldfashioned way.

>> Okay? And we've done that before. I mean, we we have we have been relatively debt like I said minus a car payment or some you know we've paid off credit cards before. We've paid you know.

>> But you've never been completely debtree while you've been married.

>> No. No. I mean when we first bought our house the only thing we had was the house and a car loan.

>> Uh >> is your wife on is she on board to do the baby steps? Cuz I think what you're going to have to go back to her and say is all right fine. We won't sell the house, but we're going to have to sacrifice like crazy.

>> No, she she's much uh she's much more

responsible than I am. >> Okay. I was going to ask who's the spender >> like it's it's me and and she she doesn't insist on anything. Like she doesn't ask for, you know, to to do any of the things that I I come up with.

It's mostly like >> So she's been a passive passenger for all of your schemes.

>> Yeah. She never she never tells me no.

>> Not even a disdainful look. I don't I don't think my wife would allow me to do all this and not like have a blow up argument yelling at me.

>> How has she been totally cool with all of this?

>> Since we I mean we we pay our bill like you wouldn't you know >> looking in. We we pay our bills. We you know I haven't made a payment on anything in you know 20 years. It's so everything is comfortable but it's less comfortable.

>> And that's what I want to warn you about Todd going into this. Um, it's George and I see both sides of this all the time. When people call in and their income is low and they've got to go out and hustle and grind to get the money, it's almost easier for them to do what we teach than a person like you who has a great income and you're going to have to downsize. And kind of what you just said before, like the debt didn't really show.

We were able to cover it up and make the payments on time. D. When you get out of debt, I'm just letting you know right now, it shows and it's going to show. and the that same part of you that kind of liked being able to show off with the money and the pool and doing all those things.

I'm I'm talking to you because I recognize myself in what you're saying.

Your family's going to see it. Your friends are going to see it. You're going to feel it and that's just part of the process. Don't let that deter you.

That's how you know it's working. That's how you know the medicine's getting in.

>> That's right. So, let's get to work. I mean, 60K a year throwing at this debt, 3 years, it's all gone. Making 170. How do we find that margin? We [music] need to make more. We need to spend less.

Let's get to it. Thanks for the call, Todd. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to Jade Warshaw, [music] all the folks in the booth, and you, America, will be back before you know it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Jay Warshaw. Open phones at 888255225.

Joseph is in Pittsburgh up next. What's going on, Joseph?

>> Yes. >> What's happening?

What's going on? How are you?

>> Good. What's your question today?

>> Uh my girlfriend going to be fiance is

going and I are going to be bu building a house costing around $700,000 and we

want to know if we're way over our heads or if this is actually feasible.

>> Numbers aside, you're in way over your heads. There's not even a ring on the finger and you're going to sign up for a mortgage and put your names on a deed together.

No, the by the time that the deed is there, there would be a ring on the finger.

>> So, this is going to be a new build and you're just hoping that all the plans work out perfectly.

>> Yes. Um, we we do have the ability to live with either of our parents rentree.

Um, obviously that's not ideal, but we're going to have to do that >> um while the house is being built. Why do we have to do any of this? Yes.

>> Tell let me lay out a different path and you tell me why it doesn't work for you guys. >> Why not get engaged, get married, rent

together, save up on your own, and then

purchase a house or build when you're financially ready? >> Yeah. What's the rush? >> So, we would like to start a family early um around 2028, 2027. And our

initial thoughts are renting is putting money into a place that doesn't build us wealth. So, we might as well put it towards a house that's going to be building us well. And if we have to live with our parents for a year or two, we're perfectly fine with that because we do have stable jobs that we're able to >> How much money do you guys have right now?

>> Right now, we have about

$60,000 in savings and then a little bit more in checking. >> How much do you plan on putting down on this $700,000 house?

So, we are looking to put down around between 100 and 130,000 down on the house. And then her parents are extremely wealthy and they were planning on matching whatever >> we put down. So, 260.

>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. And why do you need a $700,000 home as newlyweds >> in Pittsburgh? >> We are looking We are looking to have kids. So, it's in the suburbs and we're going to be building so that we don't have as many maintenance house issues.

Um, simply put, we're trying to set ourselves up for the future where we don't have to move. We don't have to do all these other things. We're just on that path of get a house and live there.

>> What's your incomes? >> Not a custom build. Um, our income we

are both around 32 to 35,000 a month.

>> A month?

>> Yes. And that is not including commission. >> So you both are >> not a,000. 3,200.

>> Good. I was about to show

>> like, well, yeah, you guys are making [laughter] a million dollar. Okay. So you're making like 70 grand and you're How are you going to afford a $5,000 a month mortgage? Yeah, that's what I'm doing because I just we both did the math. That's funny. >> We also So, we also she has commission.

She is an insurance agent, so she has commission coming back for her. I also own my own company that brings in 2 to 3,000 as well on top of that a month.

>> So, you're at 10,000

a month. >> About that. Yeah. >> So, we're already setting ourselves up where half of our take-home pay goes toward the mortgage. >> Yeah. You're still at half. before you were even worse. But even with the 10,000 what I'm seeing on here 4500

for for the mortgage if you put down $ 260 on a $700,000 house you're house

poor. >> Right.

Right. >> And you're fine with that?

>> No, we're not fine with that at all. We we're obviously going to be expanding our our income. We're trying to see if

this is feasible now because we do have

career projections going forward that it

won't be anywhere close to that. As well as my business and her commission are

projected to double. >> Everything you're saying, Joseph, I'm I'm with you. I love dreams. Like I love a good dream. I love to plan. I love goals. But you're setting yourself up um in a situation where everything must go as planned for this to work out. And even if it does go as planned, you're still setting yourself up for several years of a situation where your house is 50% where your house poor for several years. So even if everything is perfect, you're still setting that up, which is not good. I truly truly would love for

you to slow down a little bit on this

and say, "Okay, let's do all of this, but let's just do it in the right order and at the right time. Let's get married.

Then if you want to live with your parents, that's your prerogative. I wouldn't do it. But if you want to live with the parents to save more money faster, like that's y'all's choice if you want to do that. And then save up.

Make sure when you do buy a house, when it's time that it's the right percentage of your take-home. Make it to where you're not house poor. You have this amazing deal where your in-laws are going to match that amount. That's awesome. Milk it for all it's worth and make sure you get to a point where you can get this thing to 25%.

Okay. Then you're in a situation. I'm fine with you guys doing this thing believing that this is going to be the only house you ever buy for the next 20 years. If you want to believe that, that's okay. But let's Can we just do it right? Can we pump the brakes just a little so it's all done in the right time?

>> Yeah. Is this a thing where we need to increase our incomes first or a savings

and emergency fund kind of deal?

>> I think it's both. And you said that there's a there's a path where both of you guys earn more. And it's it's as you

do that, you're saving up more, too, right? Because I'm also looking at this on a 15-year fixed. My guess is that you were looking at it on a 30-year. Am I right?

>> Um I I have both in front of me, but yes, I was looking at a 30-year fix.

>> And again, all that you're doing that because you're trying to go fast. I want to go fast.

Why? You have your whole life together.

I get it. I know. I I get it. But

>> so I we are both 21.

>> Who who told you it's too late? Who told you you have to rush into this or else?

And you got to do this by this time and we're going to make this much. I just think we're there's something else going on here where you're wanting to rush the process and leapfrog into a lifestyle that you just can't afford yet.

>> No, we we've been dating for about four years and going to be graduating this upcoming May from college. Um, we're I'm

working around 50 to 60 hours a week.

She's working 30, going to be 40 this upcoming semester.

>> It was just one of those things where >> we were looking at it. Yes, we were dreaming big and we saw that we could afford it and we would still have extra income coming.

>> It's already artificially propped up with the in-laws money.

>> And so, I would go with what you guys can afford. And if you can get a $400,000 3-bedroom, I would do that and

have a small mortgage that you can knock out quickly and you can upgrade over time because the truth is you're going to hate your house 5 years from now for whatever reason and you're going to move. It's okay to move 6 years from now as your life changes. But we don't need to plan for well one day we're going to have five kids so we might as well get the fivebedroom now and just get ahead of it. We don't even have a ring on the finger.

So I would just do things in order.

You're a planner. You're futuristic. I have a lot of that in me, but I know I fall flat on my face when I make too many plans and one domino doesn't work out. What if she stays home once you guys have kids and you go, "Oh my gosh, well, we projected that her income would be 100,000 by now. This totally screws up our plan." So, I would move real slow and realize you don't need the lifestyle that her parents have today at 21 years old. It's okay for it to take a while.

That's actually healthy.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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The allnew Every Dollar is here. You've heard us talk about it. And now it's way more than just our worldclass budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. And the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So start every dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or Google Play. Tiffany is up next

in New York City. What's going on Tiffany?

>> Hi George and Jake. Can you hear me well? >> Yes. What's going on?

>> Oh, okay. Perfect. So my mother-in-law,

she is currently six years old. She has nothing saved for retirement. Um she's pretty much banking on the idea that um my husband and I would take care of her when she's physically unable to uh work

anymore. >> Is she what's her what's her health like now at 60?

>> Um so she is blind in one eye. So she

used to work at a nail salon but because uh after losing bite in one eye she is unable to work there. Um, she is currently working as a ironically as a caregiver. >> Okay. What does she earn? Do you know?

>> Um, I don't know the exact amount, but I do know it covers basically her uh necessities, rent, utilities, food, and

transportation. >> So, has she is how long has she been single? How long has your father-in-law been out of the picture?

>> So, uh, father-in-law is still in the picture, but they're separated. Is there a divorce?

>> Okay. And how long But how long has that been? >> Um I would say over 20 years.

>> Okay. So she's had my point is she's had time to adjust to life on her own >> and you're just saying she's she just does the bare minimum. Is that what you're >> Yeah. So pretty much um she was good up until she couldn't work as a nail technician anymore. Um, and then with her current job now, she could only take on so many hours. Um, because she says physically she can't work uh full-time.

>> Um, so basically um she's just doing

what she can, but I'm just worried because she has she really has nothing saved up for retirement. She did have a um I think she has like 20k saved up um

but then when she was out of a job um after she lost her job working as a nail tech, she kind of went through all that.

So, >> she's basically at nothing now.

>> What's your husband say about all this?

What's he think?

>> Um, so their relation their relationship is a little bit of an interesting one.

Um, he recently got back into my husband's uh life, I would say. Um,

since 2020. Their relationship was a little bit strange because when his parents did divorce, she left the picture. >> Um, and my husband was, I believe he was a teen when this had happened. So, she only recently got back into the picture around the time my husband and I were dating.

>> Wow. >> Interesting. >> So, is he wanting to help her at all in any way or is he just are you guys wanting to set up a boundary to say, "Hey, we can't support you in any way."

>> I think he's at a a situation where of course he doesn't want his mother out on the street, you know, if something, god forbid, something were to happen. But um he also would I we've both kind of

agreed that there there would be a lot of resentment towards her. We have to bear all the financial responsibilities.

>> What's her living situation? Is she a renter? Does she have a house? How does she live? >> So she Yes. So she is renting um but she's renting with two other roommates.

>> Great. >> So um >> so it's like Golden Girls over there or what?

>> Pretty much. >> Sounds awesome. That is awesome. Her rent is um her rent's $1,000. So she

explicitly it it is New York City, so rent's expensive.

>> So she has $1,000 for rent. What's your um financial situation, Tiffany? How are you and your husband doing?

>> Um I think we're doing pretty well. We do have a um our first child that was born May of last year. Um so, uh the

only thing is of course with rent that we're paying and then there's daycare costs. Um unless we want to give up the I guess um

our retirement. I feel like um I don't

know if it's selfish of us for not wanting to give her money on the side

for her retirement.

>> It's it's not. But let's even see if it's necessary. So, the questions that I would have if I were in your shoes, I'd want to get more facts. So, first off,

I'd want to make sure >> I'm not assuming that she wants, you know, me to take care of her. I want to know point blank. And so, I'd probably sit down and ask the question and >> Oh, no. Yeah. So when the situation

happened when she had lost her um job

earlier and she had to get surgery um eye surgery um around that time when she was out of the job she did come to my husband to ask for money >> just on a onetime thing or say hey you're going to be the one taking care of me during retirement I hope you know those are two different things >> my hus my husband set a boundary he said I was he was going to only give her money for three months and he had expected her to get back her feet after, you know, she recovered.

>> Um, >> and he said that was it. I'm only going to give you money for 3 months and then you're sort of on your own. But of course, he he's a softy in the sense that if she was, you know, out of money and he may end up on the street, he wouldn't let that happen. >> Sure.

Cuz here's what I'm I'm going just tell you where my mind is. What you said is different from taking care of me in retirement. Those are two different things. It's one thing to have had surgery, be going through a tough time trying to figure out where you can work cuz you lost your job because of your vision, right?

Though there's that, and then there's you're taking care of me in retirement, which is going to happen maybe 20 years from now. So, I'd want to get clarity on that. I don't think you have clarity there. I think you kind of are making an assumption, and I can see why you're jumping to that.

I can see why you're doing that, but I'd want to know that. And then if it does seem like, hey, no, this really is the the expectation. I've gotten clarity on that. Then I'd want to know, okay, since you're expecting that, then that gives me a right to look into your finances, right, George?

Like, you better be telling me what's your social security going to be? What do you pay? Show me your bills, right? >> If I'm paying your bills, I'm going to be in charge of uh how much you're paying for those bills and what your spending is.

So, that's that's part of this deal, but I would really push to have her live an independent life. And that's going to take some coaching.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, it's going to sound like, you know, we love you. We want to make sure that you're taken care of. Uh we also need to have a plan for you to live independently. And right now, we can't financially support you. We got a lot going on. We live in a high cost living area. We have a baby. We're paying for daycare. So, here's what we can do. We want to help you help yourself with whatever resources we can to get you

into a sustainable place, but we cannot and will not just support you for the rest of your life and cover all of your bills. We can't do that. And then it's on her to figure it out. >> Yeah.

There's still time. There's time here for her to create something for herself. And if you guys play a part in helping her do that, I think that's a wonderful thing because financial literacy and financial illiteracy is a very real thing. So, if you can help her understand, okay, you're 60, you've still got 10 years to really make something happen for yourself.

Here's how you do it. I think that's a wonderful thing. Um, but all that is going to start with you getting clarity on really what the expectation is from her and then you clearly setting expectations on your end and setting those boundaries on your end. Um, that's what I would do.

And so we need to show her the options that are at her disposal versus her relying on you and you becoming bank of Tiffany is going to be a bad plan because you're right, it's going to create resentment and it's going to create entitlement on her part to where now she goes, "Well, why even work full-time? I can work part-time or maybe not work at all if they're just going to float my life." >> So that's this scary slippery slope that we're headed towards.

>> Yeah, that's true. >> Yeah. So that's all that's going to be you and your husband coming together, making a plan, sticking to it, spit shake, saying, "I know you're a softy.

You can't give in." When she goes, "Yeah, but everything I've done for you," >> it's like, "Hey, yes, I'm grateful for what you've done, and we can't take care of you for the next 20 years." >> Mhm. I'm just glad that you're talking about it, Tiffany, because the truth is a lot of us experience these we start to see these crack cracks financially expose themselves in family members or in our aging parents and it's kind of like we just watch it happen from afar and you have the opportunity to jump in there and set those expectations.

You have the opportunity to jump in there and get the facts and hopefully try to set them on the right path because a lot can happen in 10 years financially. You can either dig a deeper hole or you can actually get yourself on track and create some form of a nest egg, something that's sustainable. So, if you're listening and you're seeing this play out in your life like so many of us are, don't just sit back idally. Go be about some business and get some information.

>> And if you are that older parent, please don't do this to your kids. Don't be a burden. I want them to like when my parents pass away, I want to grieve how much I love them. Not goodness gracious, at least they're off my payroll.

>> And that's what that's the resentment it creates when you put this on your kids.

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>> [music]

[music] >> This is the Ramsay Show. George Camel is my host. I'm Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls.88255225

is the number to call. Hey George, I saw this sitting on our desk and I think it's worth talking about because we hear so much doom and gloom about Americans

not ready to retire or it's the American dream is dying. You know, here in America when it comes to money and this is really cool uh from CNN, number of 401k millionaire reaches new high.

>> Yes, I actually just talked about this this morning on Good Day Orlando. We did a media hit with the with the nice people over there and this is exactly what we talked about because there's so much hope stealing going on out there.

All you hear is there's a retirement crisis and the next president's going to screw this up and cause us to all be broke. And here's Fidelity saying actually we're at record highs in across our 401k accounts, they have half a million people who have balances of a million dollars or more in that one account. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> In just one 401k account, which is very encouraging. Average balance hit 1.6 6

million. >> That's great. That's great. >> So that's encouraging. So the question is, good for them, George. What about me and my 401k? I don't have a million.

Well, that's true. The average 401k out there is more like 126 grand.

>> So it's like a tenth. >> So how do you get there, Jade? Well, it takes consistent investing over a long period of time. So if you sporadically put 3% to get the employer match, yeah,

it's going to take a bazillion years to get a million. But if you follow the Ramsay plan, you get out of debt as soon as you can, 2 years or less, you get the emergency fund in place, you begin investing 15% of your household income into that retirement account, you will see that it doesn't take long for compound growth to to work its magic.

>> That's right. And we all the time around here, we're talking about 10% returns.

And anytime I talk about 10% returns, especially if it goes on social media, there's always somebody popping into the comments saying something like, "Well, where are you going to get that?" or "How could you get that?" or "That's impossible." And I always have to explain the idea that this is an annualized term. Number one, it's not to say that every single year you're going to get 10%. But over the lifetime of your investing, uh that is what you're getting. That's the average of all the years you've been investing.

down 6%. If you take into account all of those years, you're looking at 10 to 12% on average in the stock market. >> That's right. And when you look at them by year, most of the years are up years.

You know, you have those years that tank because something catastrophic has happened whether in politics or, you know, international, but it always recovers and it always recovers really in in our favor. >> I just looked at the S&P 500, which represents the total US stock market. I looked at the numbers, Jade, this morning, and in 2004, so 20 years ago,

>> we have 5xed since then.

>> Yes. >> So, if you had 10 grand, now you're talking 50 grand. And even if you started investing 10 years ago, your money would have went 2 and a2x. That's right. >> And so it's it's not a rocket science analogy here. You just need savings rate. How much money you're putting in plus time. That's the formula to become a 401k millionaire. >> Yeah. That's what we're looking at here. So your 401k is a great place to start.

We say all the time. Uh you know, we sometimes here we talk about baby step four and we kind of push past it, but it's worth talking about, George. Um because a lot of people have questions. A lot of people don't realize, okay, when I invest in my 401k at work, what

does that mean and where does that get me? So, let's take a moment and kind of explain that because I posted a video on Instagram last week about baby step 4 and I was overloaded with questions on, okay, what does that mean? Where do I go? What if it's Roth?

What if I get a match? So, let's take a moment and teach the people when we say baby step 4, what are we talking about? I'll start with the first part. So here we teach that you're not ready to invest until after you've paid off your debt, which is baby step two.

And after you've invested three to or and after you've saved 3 to 6 months of expenses. That's baby step three. From there, we then teach, okay, now you take 15% of the gross that you're making every single month. This is before insurance comes out, before taxes comes out.

You take that money and you're investing it. And we say, let's start with an employer sponsored account if there's a match. >> Yes. So, if you make a h 100red grand a year, you should see $15,000 in contributions in that retirement account.

That's 15%. And the strategy here is simple. Match beats Roth beats traditional. We go for the match first because it's a 100% return on our investment.

I put in 4%, the employer puts in 4%. Great. Next, we can move to all the Roth options available. All of that means is that the money is is uh put in after tax and grows taxree.

So, you're not going to be able to deduct it from your taxable income for the year like a traditional, but you never have to pay taxes again.

Uncle Sam doesn't touch it. That's like 2 million of net income, take-home pay.

So, I love that. Then, beyond the Roth options, like a Roth IRA or Roth 401k, you can move to any traditional options you have. >> That's right. And one one of the other things I love about investing is if I can set it and forget it. Like if you can if you're doing the 401k right now and you can go to HR and set it up and it happens like clockwork, that's wonderful because you don't even have to think about it. It's just happening monthly. It's money. You can almost pretend like it's never happened, right?

You're not thinking about it. And same thing if you have a Roth IRA, you could probably set it up to where that's coming out automatically on payday.

>> Because here's the thing, once if you don't do it on payday, good luck to It's not happening. >> It's not happening. [laughter] >> If you see that money in your bank account, it's hard to go, you know what I should do? Invest for the future.

You're going to go, "Oo, I'm going to buy me some stuff." >> Yeah, that's right. >> So, I love the idea of picturing like you never had that money. And then future you, it's going to feel like you found like a $20 bill in your coat pocket, except it's going to be like a $2 million bill [laughter] in your coat pocket. >> So, let's talk about George briefly because we got some time.

Let's talk about for the people who say, "Well, I make too much to invest in a Roth IRA." Well, the IRA does have limits, but there's ways around it with the Roth where you can do a backdoor Roth.

And all this means is you're going to use after tax money to fund an IRA and then you can immediately convert it to a Roth. And it's legal. It's a legal loophole. Totally legal. >> This is not like a life hack that's going to get you in trouble. And I would recommend working with a pro on all this. You can connect with one at Ramseyolutions.com to help. That's what I did when I came to Ramsey. I had an old 401k. I rolled it over to the IRA uh

from my Apple career. my my short one year and three-month Apple career, I had some some 401k money in there.

>> That's great. >> And so whether you're rolling over or you want to do a backdoor Roth, there's a lot of options for high income earners on top of that. There's the mega backdoor Roth. >> Yes.

Like it feels like a seven-year-old name. [laughter] >> The mega >> mega backdoor. >> And then for the people who are like, "Okay, Jade George, great. I'm maxing out my 401k.

I'm doing well. I'm maxing out a Roth IRA. What else can I do?" We love the HSA health savings account. If you have a high deductible insurance plan, that's a great way to go.

I mean, obviously when you put the money in at first, you're thinking, "This is for my health savings." But beyond $1,000, you're able to invest that money and uh by the time you turn 65, it doesn't have to just go to medical costs.

>> What if you're really doing well, George, and you're like, I did it all. I did the HSA, the the Roth the Roth IRA,

the 401k. What am I going to do next?

George, >> I would just invest in a general investing brokerage account. This is not connected to retirement but and you don't get tax advantages. >> Well, let's run it back a little simpler because some people are going when you say brokerage account, George, what do you mean? What is that? What is a brokerage account? What's a brokerage?

>> Well, it's simply an account for investing that you work with, you know, firm like you've we've all heard of Vanguard or Fidelity or Schwab.

>> So, you can work with a pro on this. You can open these yourself and you just simply invest in, you know, this is what Dave does. He gets a big check that's not non-retirement. He goes, "I'm going to put it in an index fund inside of one of these accounts." >> It's not connected to it's not connected to your employer. It's not connected to your retirement. It's simply >> and you pay taxes on the money on the growth of that money and you don't get any tax deductions when you put it in.

So, there's no tax benefit, but the benefit is you don't have to wait till 60 to tap into it. I like that.

>> And you can use it for anything at any time. >> Okay. So, let's take it a step further. When we talk about investing that money, what are we talking about? We're talking about because a lot of people go, "Oh, I'm investing in single stocks, Apple, Nvidia, right?" and we're saying, "No, no, no. That's super risky. Let's invest

in mutual funds." Right.

>> So, this is like betting on a single horse versus betting on the racetrack.

>> Yeah. >> I'd rather just enjoy the game and go, we're all going to be winners if we put money into the race track itself. >> That's right. >> We're going to get all the horses in that race. And that's what you're doing when you invest in a mutual fund, which is like 90 to 200 plus, >> sometimes more. Yeah. >> And so, that's what you're betting on.

And you can see the return is a lot less rocky than a single stock of one company. Instead, we're going here's the top 500 companies we're all rooting for, the top 500 horses in the race, and that way you get the benefit of all of that growth. And there's different types of funds that he's talking about. We talk about growth funds, growth and income funds, aggressive growth funds, international.

Those are the four that we teach. You're spreading your eggs out. You're not putting them in one basket. So if your international fund is not doing very well, probably your growth and income fund is trucking along and doing just fine as it should.

And so that's how this works. That is baby step four in a nutshell. George, >> I wouldn't go that far. >> I would.

>> But you know what? You don't have to be a genius investor to make money in the stock market. You just got to ride it out.

Stay put. >> Stay put. All right. Keep tuning in to the Ramsay Show to learn more about how to manage your personal finances.

>> [music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[music]

[music] You are listening to the Ramsay Show on the Ramsey Network. I'm Jade Warshaw. [music] Next to me is George Camel.

We're taking your calls all hour long.8825522. 88 8255225.

And if you didn't know it, you know, maybe you just watch the show and you just think we're two folks in a studio.

Actually, it's two very large buildings that we work from. And it's a lot of people in here. I think there's like over a thousand of us. >> That's right. >> Working in here day in and day out. Lots of different resources that we offer here. Um Ramsay education, Ramsey

Trusted Services, just to name a few.

Then there's all the stuff like Every Dollar and everything like that. and one of our favorite Ramsey Trusted. They're here to help you guys, okay? We you need help with things like real estate and we're here to help.

So, selling a house the Ramsey way, it's really what makes home ownership a blessing instead of a burden. And we've got the right tools for you. Our Ramsey trusted program is really the only way for you to find an agent that you can trust. This person is going to keep you on track with the things that we teach here at Ramsey, which is so important.

you're going to get the best offer on your house and you're going to find the right house for you if you're looking uh to purchase a house.

And people will do anything, especially with this market. If you're trying to buy a house, people are doing bridge loans, people are doing zero down loans, >> for sale by owner, trying to save a buck. >> Oh gosh, >> now's not the time to do amateur hour.

>> I know. And you don't want a an agent who's so desperate to make a dollar that they'll kind of suggest things to you that are not good for you. Oh, well, if you want if you need to get your loan approved, just just do this. You don't want that.

You want what if you did a heliloc? And that way you could and no, our Ramsey trusted pros, they're not going to steer you wrong.

Remember, that's the goal. >> That's what you want. So, we're going to send you some of the top agents in your area. These are people that we trust.

Uh, you're going to get to review their stats. You're going to get to interview them yourself and decide which one of them that you want to work with cuz you're going to choose one of them. And these Ramsey trusted agents, they've got years of experience, okay? They're going to help you make the wise decisions, when it comes to pricing, when it comes to marketing, and they're going to help you choose the right offer. So, find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free. Did I mention that it's free? at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

So that's what we're looking for. I love my Ramsay trusted pro that has helped us with our houses. She's great. >> You come you come like lifelong friends with some of these folks. They're amazing. >> Mandy Linfesty, shout out.

>> Shout out >> in the in the Middle Tennessee area, Williamson County. >> She'll appreciate that. >> I know she will. All right, let's go to the phone lines. We got Elizabeth in Austin, Texas. What's going on, Elizabeth?

>> Hi. Um, how are you >> doing? Good. How are you?

>> Good. Sorry. I just wanted to make sure you could hear me up first. Definitely.

>> So, just to kind of get to the point, u

my stepmom and I don't have a really good relationship. Um, I recently found out that she has absolutely no retirement funds or plans. Um, and

there's just no way my husband or I could even think about helping her. M >> um and so I I just I'm not quite sure

what to do in this situation or like how to avoid feeling guilty that I can't help. >> Is she asking for help?

>> Um no, not yet. Um but

her and my dad aren't very financially

responsible. Um so it's >> How old are they? I'm worried that if some um she's 56.

>> Okay. Um >> uh >> Okay. How old is your dad? Same age.

>> Um he's 53.

>> Okay. >> Are they both working?

>> Um they are right now.

>> Okay. And what where does your dad come into play? Because you're talking a lot about stepmom here.

>> Um he's he doesn't work. He has a he he

works but he doesn't work at home. So, he has um he has a job as a truck driver

>> and um he he has like a pension that he's vested into, but that's only like $500 a month for when he retires. Um

>> have they told you about their financial situation?

>> My dad has. He's been very um vocal

about that. >> Is he worried about it when he tells you?

>> A little bit. Yeah.

Um just cuz that's not a lot of money to

live off of. >> Sure. What's your financial situation?

>> Um so my husband and I are currently in baby step two. >> Okay. >> Um we make 90,000 a year and we're scheduled

to have if if everything goes perfectly, we're scheduled to have uh 50,000 paid off by March of 2026.

>> And that's the full amount.

>> That's the full amount um minus our mortgage. But >> okay, great. Yeah, that's excellent.

Okay, so I I sympathize with what you're

saying because I, you know, they're your parents, you love them, you see them drowning, and you want to save them, right? But at the same time, you've got to get yourself into the raft first and save yourself so that you can pull him into somewhere safe. So, there's there's all of that there. Um, it sounds like your dad, at the very least, it sounds like he's willing to talk to you somewhat about this.

One thing that you could try is to say, "Hey, um, you know, dad, >> some of the things that you're saying, I I have felt that too. You know, we we we've been worried about the future for ourselves, and I found this plan. You know, it's called Financial Peace University. We've started working it, and it's working for us.

It's a lot of work, but it's helping us. You know, I'll send I'll send you a copy of it." And maybe you do it like that. Um, as opposed to >> because you're not Here's the thing.

>> And you're not responsible for their life and their decisions. >> Yeah. >> As much as you might have empathy for their situation. And we know that you can't change people.

We've tried. I wish I could. You know, you can't. Your personal trainer can't care more about you losing weight than you. >> Yeah. >> It just it doesn't work. >> You can hold up the oxygen. They don't have to inhale.

>> And so part of this is having the hard conversation and saying, "Listen, I can't take care of you guys if you don't take care of yourselves. I'm not we're not going to be able to have you, you know, move in with us and have us float you if you didn't prepare. Now, the good thing is they're not that old. No, they're not. >> They're they're probably, you know, if they work really hard for the next 10, 15 years, they could have a decent little nest egg and retire with some peace. Would you agree?

>> Um uh >> why are they why is there no hope for them at this point?

>> Well, it's not so much that there's there's no hope for my dad. It's just um my stepmom really loves to shop >> and so >> and is she going into debt for this?

>> Uh yeah, she has in the past. Um it's caused them to go through bankruptcy twice now. >> This is >> even more so this is becoming an issue you can't solve because this these are marital issues. There are financial issues that you're seeing. You're seeing the symptoms on the outside in a financially speaking, but these are marital issues that you I mean, you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg on this.

>> And with any kind of misbehavior, if you throw money at it, you're just going to be enabling more of the same misbehavior. >> She's not just going to change her habits because you gave her $5,000.

She's going to go, "Woo! Shopping spree." >> How long have they been married? How long has she been your stepmom?

um 16 years now.

>> Okay. So, this is locked in. What's your relationship with her?

>> Um it's really terrible. Um she was

physically and verbally abusive when I was little. >> Oh my gosh. Sorry.

>> So, yeah. >> So, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. You're looking at this and you're going, "This woman is dragging my dad down >> a little bit." Yeah.

And so yeah, you're you're mad.

>> Have you brought this to your dad? Have you shared your honest feelings with your dad?

>> Um >> about how she's treated you and >> her financial situation and how it affects him, his retirement.

Yeah, I I have um for Father's Day, I got him a Total Money Makeover and

>> he he um he started reading it and he like wants to get on the right track now, but >> it's just >> it's on him to get her on board and you're going to have a much harder time doing that with your position.

Mhm. >> And so I think the more you can encourage him, get him on the plan, get him fired up, that will then hopefully be contagious to her, or at least he gets some boundaries and goes, "Listen, you can't spend like this anymore. I'm taking away access to this card because you're putting our family in danger." >> And the way that you motivate him is by sharing your journey. Like share when you're winning, when you guys do your debtree scream, share that.

Share how it feels to have this piece. Talk about the conversations that you're having with your spouse.

Just be open and share. You can't [music] make them do anything. Uh all you can do is tell them about it, and then you kind of just have to step away and really just leave [music] it in God's hands at that point, which is tough to do, George. It is not easy.

>> We want to control [music] the people that we love. Let's just be honest about that. But we can't. Doesn't work that way. This is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

[snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw this hour.8825-55225 is the number to call if you want to join the conversation. Brian is in Topeka, Kansas. Up next, Brian, how can we help today?

>> Hey. Um, so I have about $90,000

tied up $90,000 in debt tied up in a

truck and a camper since I travel for work. And uh

I always want to I'm always like, I'm tired of being broke. I'm want to get this paid off in the next year.

How how do you get into that mentality of like whenever it comes to payday, I'm

just I don't want to do it, but whenever

it's time to pay the bill, I'm I want to get rid of this. How do you get get in the mentality of

>> making it happen? >> I need to get this done. Yeah. Making it happen. >> Well, I mean, I think I I think for you

right now, it's just logic. I think you're seeing, okay, I have debt. Yeah, it makes sense to pay it off. Maybe you heard somebody say a good reason, right?

But right now, it still feels very external. And I think there's got to be something internally in you that is a

real reason why. Um, and that you're feeling to where that's the motivator for you to actually make this happen and move the needle. Um, and a lot of times that's tied to our goals, like what our goals are in life. So, if your goal is to get married or if your goal is to buy a house or your goal is to be the first person in your family to retire and it not be a burden, right? Whatever that thing is, I think that maybe you haven't connected it to that yet.

>> Okay? Cuz I've set goals for I want to

get the debt paid off in the next year and then >> land. Why? Mhm.

>> Um to be financially free and to so I

can continue on my other financial goals

of buying buying land, building a house,

and then >> but also I'm asking deeper questions because money, it can't just be for more gain. Like it can't be money for money's sake. I want to get out of debt so I can have more money. Why? So I can buy more things. Why? So I can have more, you know, there's got to be like you got to pinpoint it to something. It's, you know, so when you said, "Hey, I want to buy land." Why is land important to you?

If you said, "Hey, I want to build a house." Why is building a house important to you? What does it represent? So, I think getting to that deeper level is really helpful.

Otherwise, it's pretty surface. And a lot of times what we find, George, is people call in and they're just looking for the next thing they can do >> and it's not really it's not satisfying them in the way that they thought it was. >> Yeah. You'll get there and go, "Okay, I did it, but now what?" And we want you to have some deeper purpose here. And I think you're getting there the way you're talking. What do you make?

>> Make about 110,000

before or after taxes.

>> After taxes, you make 110. Great income.

Okay. So, when you say I want to pay this off in 12 months, how are you planning on doing that?

>> So, my checks are about 2100 to 2500

depending on overtime and and how my hours are.

>> Is that twice a month? >> Once a week. >> No, it's every week. Okay, good. I was like, "Man, this math is not math for [laughter] me." Okay. >> Yeah, that's great. That's weekly.

>> Um, and just I did the math and right

around 1,500 bucks a week, get to a

point to where I have a I'm thinking like a $10,000 safety net since I am

traveling for work. And >> how much do you have saved now?

>> Nothing. >> Okay. So, you're just paycheck to paycheck spending everything you get.

>> All right. Yeah. >> Do they cover your expenses or is that on you? Do they reimburse you?

>> They So, they pay um

incentives to come out here and then the

travel expenses are on me.

>> Okay. What's left on the truck and what's left on the camper?

>> There's 60 on the truck and 30 on the camper. >> Okay. Do you need a $60,000 truck to do

your job?

>> I don't. >> Okay. because that's over half of your your take-home pay. It's a lot of truck for and it sounds like you're a young guy. How old are you?

>> 20. >> Okay. A 20-year-old does not need a $60,000 truck to do any job. Can we agree on that? >> Yeah. >> A a 50-year-old doesn't need a $60,000 truck to do a job. So, if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to see what I can do to lighten my load, literally, and sell this truck and get a new to me truck for 15,000. >> Okay. >> So, what is the truck worth? If you sold it private party, how much could you get for it?

>> Probably 55 to 60.

>> I haven't really done the >> blue book on it.

>> Cool. There's your There's some homework. And if you are underwater on it by a little bit, you need to come up with that in savings, which you could do within a month. If you're underwater by five grand, could you save five grand to save your life in the next month?

>> Yeah. >> Great. So, now you can clear the title.

Now, we still need another truck, right? You still need that. >> Yeah. So, you're going to need to come up with another 10 grand, 15 grand to get a a beater truck is what this is going to amount to in the truck world.

>> Yeah, >> cuz you just need to get from A to B, right?

>> Well, uh, it just >> the camper is taking you. You're just hauling the truck along with the camper.

>> No. Uh, it's a pull behind camper, so I'm hauling the camper. >> Okay. >> I need something reliable enough to get

across the country if I need to. If the next job is in Nevada to pack myself up and

>> Yeah. But they make reliable trucks that are 20 grand instead of 60, right?

>> You know the truck world. >> So, here's the problem. That $60,000 truck is depreciating like a rock the way you're driving it across the country, >> which is even more reason to not drive a super nice truck all the time across the country. Cuz the more mileage you're putting on it, the more wear and tear, that thing is plummeting in value.

So that's what scares me is you could be underwater 20 grand and not know it right now. >> Yeah. >> So I would do some homework on that part.

>> Yeah. >> I'd rather you eat rice and beans for 6 months instead of a whole year. So I would be looking at what makes sense to sell and get something cheaper. And the way your income is, you could save up and and buy something used pretty quickly.

And the good news is lots of people are selling used campers out there. >> Lots of people selling used trucks out there. Yeah, for sure. >> And so just know it's a short season of rice and beans for you.

Some people like Jade, it took, you know, over seven years for her and her husband to pay off their debt. So for you to be able to do this in six months, you're going to blink. You won't even be able to drink yet and on your 21st birthday by the time you're debtree. [laughter] >> Yeah.

>> And just Yeah. And just know, you know, going back to what I was saying earlier, part of that why is why is it a good idea to do this now? And it's because you're unattached, man. Like you got all the time in the world.

you can do what you want with your money. There's no lady in your life that you have to share decisions with.

Like, there's so many reasons to do this now versus later. So, just spend some time with that mentally and let that soak in.

>> Okay. >> I'm proud of you, [laughter] man. You're a a very successful 20-year-old with a good head on your shoulders. We made some mistakes.

The good news, you know, anything that's vehicle related, at least we can sell those. You know, you go into 100,000 of student loan debt, you can't go sell the degree. >> Man, I wish you could. I would have sold I would have sold mine off.

>> If anyone's interested in a communications degree, I have one available >> and then it's like Men in Black. They do the thing and you forget everything you learned as well. >> Trust me, I don't remember anything I learned. I think that, you know, [laughter] >> I'm sorry, but who remembers things that like specific things they learned in college >> unless you were in like a 5.13 >> a medical field like you know, >> law like something like that where you kind of need to know some things >> where the funny bone is located.

>> Oh, I don't even know what that is >> exactly. There you go. I just

as much as I don't like going into debt for [music] vehicles, it's nice when we get a call and I go, "Hey, you could sell the truck." >> That's a great >> You could sell the horse. Both are assets [music] technically.

>> You said it, not me.

>> [music] >> Ah,

[music]

[music]

heat.

[music]

Michael's up next in San Jose. What's going on, Michael?

>> I'm doing [clears throat] very well. How are you? >> Great. How can we help today?

>> So, my father passed a few months ago.

>> And the thing is, >> thank you. And the thing is, he left everything to me, his house, his investments, his business. Um he he didn't give anything to my sisters who

who who are estranged and with our mother ever since my parents divorced >> and my sisters are h like they have

asked me to help pay their student loans because my father left them with nothing. >> How much was it? >> Uh combined I believe they went to both undergrad and grad so it's combined it's about 300,000. >> No. How much was the Yes. Thank you for telling me that. But how much was the inheritance?

>> Um, it's it's a couple million. It's basically his house, his investment, and his business. >> When you say a couple million, is that like 2 million or is that like six million?

>> Um, it's in the eight figures.

>> Okay. So, we're talking 10 million plus.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Wow. Okay. So he purposefully did not

leave any money to your sisters because

he had no relationship with them and that was his call to make.

>> Are are they misbehaviors?

>> He didn't.

>> No, they basically he basically cut them off because they sided with our mother during their divorce. >> Okay. So they're team mom, you were team dad, and he goes, "Hey, I'm going to leave it all to my son who's been loyal to me." >> Yes. >> Okay. And now they're resentful because they feel like they deserve a portion of this money.

>> It seems like it. Yes. >> Okay. I think this is more relational, emotional than it is financial. You could write them a check and pay off the loans, but I don't know that you agree with the principle behind it or that that would have been your father's heart. >> Well, yeah. What do you want to do?

What's what's your heart lean towards?

>> I don't want to disrespect my father in any way.

Okay. >> Do you have a relationship with your sisters >> or is it estranged as well?

>> It's estranged. Okay.

>> So, they've only come to me only for

very unique cases or like or when they

were going to college or or grad, they came to both my father and I for money.

My father I know I was there. My father refused to pay for them and that's why they have the debt to begin with. So, it's been transactional this entire relationship. >> But can I ask cuz here where I'm sitting and you've given us Thank you for sharing what you've shared so far.

What I'm trying to weigh and George, I don't I don't know how you're looking at this either, but I'm trying to weigh if this was a decision that was made out of dysfunction, which is I'm forcing you to choose sides and you guys are children, so you're choosing whatever I don't know, the parent you like the most that day, you know, that sort of thing.

you know, having an kind of just um an immature moment, right? Or is this really a reason that is with good reasoning behind it of, hey, I cut them off because they were misbehaving in this way and they made these poor choices or is it literally just simply I don't like your mother anymore and they like her. You're dead to me.

>> So, my mother had an affair. That's why they divorced.

My sister said it with my mother because they like the affair partner more.

And I said it with my father because he was my father. >> Got you. Okay. So, you can't see how

they would stand by someone who would do such a thing basically.

>> Yes, >> I understand. Okay. >> I think you're going to be resentful if you give this money. And I'd rather them be resentful towards you than you be resentful towards them.

>> Okay. There's no easy answer here.

They're going to hate you. But it sounds like they didn't like you to begin with.

They just used you for transactional moments.

And so I don't think this is going to change anything if you say that wasn't my father's wishes. I'm sorry.

>> Listen, I got more to I I feel more to it than that. How how how old were you guys when this happened?

>> I was 17. My sisters were 15 and 13.

>> That's interesting to me.

I listen, I don't think there's a wrong

or right to this. I really don't. It

feels very extreme to me that I I'm just

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just telling you my thoughts. It feels extreme to me that a parent would put children in a situation where they have to choose. Um, and because some

something about the situation made you guys feel like you had to choose, right?

Um, and >> not really. I mean the thing is I did

not know about my parents affair.

Apparently my sisters did >> and they said nothing >> and >> yeah they said nothing and >> which is not on your that's not on your the daughters. It's on the parent to to not put them in the position to keep that secret. >> Like kids are kids. Teenagers they're kids. >> A 15-year-old doesn't have the emotional bandwidth to navigate that.

>> Yeah. And probably thinks, "Oh, I'm going to be disloyal." Like they kids don't understand what role to play in that. Now looking back on adults, we can look back and go, maybe I should have done this, maybe I shouldn't. Who knows if they've done the right therapy to work through those things. I I just feel that on a surface level um to punish the children for a a

spousal misbehavior because the children didn't react in the way that the adults felt should have happened. I I do struggle with that. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just telling you called in.

So I'm saying I do have a little bit of a struggle with that. It It's not an error on your part. It feels like an error on the dad for saying, "I'll I'll show you." And kind of putting a lot of that um sting and unforgiveness for what mom did on the kids. That's I'm no I'm no therapist, so that's just my two cents.

I'm not going to lie. >> Yeah. So, yeah. So, my father, he

suffered very greatly u from the divorce very emotionally. >> I I know because I was there.

>> Sure. Yeah. Rightfully so. >> He dipped into the alcohol. He dipped into alcohol for a while, but he built himself back up, >> you know, and he showered me with love and intention because I was the only one that he had. >> And I don't want to in any way

disrespect his wishes. I think he had a purpose to when he wrote his will and he never changed it. >> I think he had a purpose to when he refused my sisters for his college for

the college. >> Um, and and that's only a drop in the bucket. There have been numerous instances where I know that my father has re tried to reach out especially

when my sisters had their kids.

>> Um he >> and they didn't want anything to do with him. >> So can I ask this question?

>> Did they Okay, he wrote them off because

they followed mom. Did they then write him off because he wrote them off? Was it >> Do you see what I'm saying? Who wrote whom off first?

My sisters definitely.

>> And what was their reason for writing him off if he was completely an innocent party in all of this? I don't know.

That's the part I'm trying to understand. It's one thing for them to be like, "We still like mom. Like, we don't want this, you know, and for whatever their reasons were, they continue to have a relationship with her, but what would make them completely disassociate from dear old innocent dad

who did nothing wrong but love them?"

It was basically from what I understand the affair partner was very charismatic.

He bought them a lot of stuff and this was back when my father's business wasn't successful.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So I so so much to say he pro he

probably bought their love and affection. >> Got it. Got it. So it was a materialistic relationship. >> Here here's my final take on this. Again, not trying to play armchair therapist, but I think this you're not ready to forgive your sisters and and cause reconciliation, and giving them this money feels like you're taking that next step. Is that accurate?

>> I know that it the thing is I want the old grudges to die.

>> At the same time, I want to respect my

father's wishes. And um because my

father was a God-fearing man. Um he was very devout and I know that forgiveness is in the Bible, but I don't know like I'm you're

right. I am not ready to forgive them for the pain that they caused my father, neither my mother, neither my sisters.

>> That's it. You just said it out loud.

>> If you're not ready to forgive, don't forgive yet. But I think you should eventually. And my final take is I do think that him cutting them off was a little bit of dysfunction on his part.

Um, and I don't think that they necessarily deserved that. It doesn't sound like I wasn't there, but based on what you said, I don't know if I'd want to keep that dysfunction going. >> Yeah. And I want you to be giving out of joy. >> That's how giving should be done, not out of, oh, I just hate to be doing this with a clenched fist. So, I'd read that Bible again and see if all that grace and mercy talk might eventually heal some of [music] this relational dysfunction. So, sorry, man.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

Hey, if you're listening to the show, I assume you enjoy it. And if you do, do us a quick favor. It's completely free.

And share the show. Hit the subscribe button, the follow button, leave us a kind review. Let us know what you think.

It all helps us so much. It is the best marketing tool we have because humans are the best way to share the show with other humans. That's the goal. So do that and we'll keep the show afloat.

That's how it goes. >> That's how it goes. >> I know no better way to keep the show going than you guys all sharing it and keeping it. >> You're the plan. >> Keep it alive. I bet is in Houston, Texas up next. What's going on?

>> Hello. Um, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> I'm actually having a lot of issues. Um,

I'm in a foreclosure.

>> Oh my gosh. >> And I Yeah, I initially did everything

to get out of it and I thought every everything was taken care of as far as a modification.

[clears throat] Um, I don't know how important this is, but um, I'm divorced and my ex-husband is on the deed. Even though he's never had any connection to the house, we happened to to be in the middle of the divorce when I purchased the house, so I was told that he had to be on the deed. I didn't even realize I could take him off. I'm just finding that out.

Yeah. But I mean, he's cooperative with um you know, like when I need the paperwork and all that stuff done. >> Okay.

So, when I I was sent the um final

documents for the the u modification,

they, you know, sent a copy to him and a copy to me and I called to follow up to

make sure his copy was actually received by them. The first time it wasn't, but the second time they said yes, it's here. You know, it was came in on this day, signed in, uh, but it hadn't been reviewed yet. So, that was a worry that was out of my mind. Um, but my documents, they sent them back to me and said that the notary did them incorrectly and I needed to have them not rearized.

>> Okay. So anyway, by the time I did that and sent it in and I had already made two two payments, not the trial payments, the actual um new modification

payments I had already. So yeah, I'm I'm into it. >> So then when I called to follow up, they said that the deadline had passed by two

days and I no longer was Yeah. I was no

longer eligible for >> the the modification. And I I talked to

these people constantly on a regular basis. And I have to say the the my uh assistant there. He was very stressful.

He stressed me out every time I talked to him. But he never really answer any questions as far as you know what happens, you know, by this date. Give me dates. He never >> What's the current status? How many payments have you missed?

>> Um well, like I said, I was making the two that was supposed to happen and then they stopped and they wouldn't take anymore. So, right now I think >> So, what what's their last communication to you? Where are you at in the foreclosure process?

>> Well, now it's on hold only because I'm a I'm a victim of a hurricane and I didn't ask for anything. They, you know, they just said, "Were you affected by a hurricane?" And I said, "Yeah." And then the person said, "Um, >> what hurricane? When?" >> Is this recent? >> Hurricane.

Yeah. Texas has hurricanes anytime it's summer. So yeah, >> I mean like but I'm saying that happened this summer.

>> Yeah, it just happened like I don't know three three weeks ago, but even before that we had a we had a tornado before that and I was >> So they're putting it they're they put it on hold because of the that inclement weather situation.

>> Yeah. And and on hold is what I thought it was, but it's a for it's a forbearance. So until

>> until um the end of October. Can I ask a

couple of Can I ask a couple of questions just to get my head around this? What took place for you to miss the initial payments? What was going down that was causing you to miss however many payments that you missed and got behind? And >> has is that situation over?

>> No. And and I'm I'm I'm willing at this point to sell my house, but um and that's something I fought against for so long. But no, I'm I have a disability and I haven't been able to work. Okay.

>> Um in over over 10 years, but I I'm not

receiving disability. It's been it's been very hard in this last time. I I haven't even filed the appeal. I just was in a state of depression and just >> So, what has your income been for the last 10 years? Where has it coming from?

>> Well, well, at it was coming from from child support for the most part, but now my daughter is an adult. Um >> So, where do you get money now? I well now I have a part-time job that makes things even worse. So that's what I have. But my daughter has her income now and so to I mean it's still very low cuz she only works part-time as well.

>> Both of you working part time. Both of you living in the house and you can't make the mortgage payment.

>> No, no, we No, we can make it now. But but what actually stopped me from making it um I ended up being sued by my um

homeowners association which that totally just wrecked everything. I had to pay them $6,000 and uh that that's

what really caused me to get behind because >> has the HOA payments been resolved? Did you pay that?

>> Yeah, that's that's that's over and done with and I'm going to have to figure out some way to get that back cuz that's a whole other uh story. I I have been on a payment plan with them since I stopped even before I stopped working. But we have different people in charge of that.

And >> let me just >> There's a few pieces here. We're going to walk you through it. >> Yeah. I don't think that um Have you ever attempted to sell this house? Here's here's I'm going to give you my 50,000 foot view. This is a home that you can't afford. This has been nothing.

This has been a burden on burden on burden. Um, I don't want you to foreclose, but I want to know, is there a way, have you attempted to sell the house at any point to go, hey, I can't afford this piece of property. I got to get out of it. Have you tried that?

>> No. And there there's a reason for that.

And and like I was saying, I have no problem with doing that now going forward. Um, but I've been affected by

these hurricanes. And >> what does that mean? When you say you've been affected, tell tell us what that means. >> Was the house damaged?

>> I have property. Yes. And I have property damage. Not just from the hurricane I just told you about from uh the Texas freeze a couple of years ago when we were out of power, but the issue is the insurance companies. I don't know if you know what what's going on with Texas insurance company after that. Even before Yeah. Even before that freeze, we had insurance companies that were just not doing what they were supposed to do.

>> They denying your claims?

>> No. No, they didn't do that. My insurance company um gave me $1,800. I

probably had I don't know. I'm just going to say $30,000 worth of damage.

And then we hit a wall and then they

pulled out the state of Texas and filed for bankruptcy. >> Okay. So, you have a bunch of work that needs to be done on your home that insurance wouldn't pay for. What type of work is it? Is it something that no one would buy the home in this condition? Is that what we're talking about? Is your roof half gone or is it more cosmetic?

No, I think people would buy the house, but my thing is I don't know how much value that I have lost and now so that I

may not have the equity left on your mortgage.

>> Um, it's like right at 100,000 and the

>> You're saying you don't know you could sell it for 100?

>> No, no, that's not what I'm saying. I I probably can't sell it for that. My situation I'm I'm 60 years old. My situation is I would not if I can I

would prefer not to sell a house that I paid for for 22 years and have nothing and then >> I understand it's frustrating because you didn't build the equity you wanted to but this is not you can't have the sunk cost fallacy. You're in a bind where you're going to either sell this home or it's going to be sold for you at auction in a >> foreclosure. You need to figure out you need to get an appraiser in there figure out what the house is worth. I'd be talking with the bank and fig and asking them listen I know I'm behind at this point.

I don't know how many payments you are behind. I know they tried to do a modification. It's on hold now. I think the fact right now that it's on hold is a blessing for you to go in one more time and say, "Can we just sell the property?" Um, if it's at a loss, maybe you ask for a short sale.

Figure out a way to go in there and don't let this be a foreclosure.

I'm gonna sell this house and we're gonna make sure that I'm I'm ahead and we're gonna get this thing done." And so, I would get in touch with a real estate pro. You can get in touch with one at ramseyolutions.com/trusted

and have them figure out the comps and what the house is worth. Let them do that homework for you cuz you got a lot going on. You need to get to some financial stability right now and build a new financial foundation and that means we're getting out of this house. >> Yeah.

I think you've been hit with hit after hit, whether it was the freeze and then the hurricane and then you're missing payments. And I realize that you've been in this house for a long a lot of years, but this is not a place of peace anymore. [music] And your home should be a place that you walk in and you feel peace. And we want that for you.

We want you in a place that you can afford and we want you to get the help that you need.

You can definitely avoid all of this and sell and move on with your life and get a fresh start. [music] That's our hope for you. So, get in touch with an agent and have them start to do the homework.

You get in touch with the lender, figure out what it's going to [music] take to allow this process to happen. This is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Welcome back [music] to the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Matthew 6 20 and 21. Store [music] up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. [music] For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Rebecca Johnson said, "Money is the opposite of the weather. Nobody talks about it, but everybody does something about it." >> Oo, >> here we go. >> I can't hear the word vermin without thinking it's funny. >> It's a funny word. It's a timey word.

>> Very yosimity Sam >> and biblical somehow. There's the ven diagram. What do they have in common?

They both use vermin. [laughter] Love it. Let's get to the phones. Samuel is in Austin, Texas. Up next. What's going on, Samuel?

>> Hey, how's it going? Can you guys hear me? Okay. >> Uhhuh. >> Yeah. You could do better, but you know, we can hear you.

>> So, um I went into debt with a car and

um this was two years ago. Uh the question for you guys today is it morally okay to ask my wife to pay for this car with her

savings. >> When did you get married?

>> Uh two years ago. I I got the car in April. We got married in May.

>> That's convenient.

>> Was the plan >> Yeah, it wasn't. >> Was the plan for you guys to combine your finances when you got married?

>> Uh yes. And the reason I got the car was I was in an accident and so we were left with nothing to drive around.

>> They didn't write you a check.

>> Uh, no. It was my fault.

>> Okay.

So, you've been married two years. Have you guys combined your money up to this point or has it been kind of just separate without you guys really?

>> Yeah, we we we combined. Um, she doesn't

work as much as I do. I think in total we're probably at like 50 40 50 each year.

>> Okay. But what you're telling me and your question would denote two separate answers. You're telling me that your money is combined, but then you're telling me should my wife use her savings to pay this off. So that lets me know it's not combined.

>> We're combined as in like we pay the we

pay the bills together. um her savings is a part because she's been saving since she was like 18, 17 that she

started working. Um and so I think I I

feel wrong to ask her and I did ask her

I think maybe maybe about a month ago and it became an argument because I don't have anything safe. Uh the only debt >> that we have is this car.

>> Um >> what's left on the car?

Uh 20 >> 20,000 >> and she has a car too that's paid off.

>> Uh well she works with her mom so her mom picks her up every day.

>> So you have one car in the family.

>> Yeah. >> How much savings does she have?

>> She has 16 17

>> 16 or 17,000. So it's really not even enough to pay off the car if she wanted to. >> Yeah. >> Okay.

So there's the glaring issue and I know George sees it too. The glaring issue is that you guys are really separate and it's really hard to build trust when I'm over here and you're over there and I've got this thing that I've been working for my whole life and it doesn't really include you. You know what I'm saying? And I kind of wish she was on this call cuz I don't want to talk bad about her.

She probably feels really great about that savings. But the truth is when you become married, two become one. And until the two become one, it gets really weird and very transactional. Right, George?

>> Yeah. This is I think that it's the wrong question to ask. Is it moral to ask my wife to pay off my debt? There's not a moral issue here.

It's what does the conversation need to look like for us to combine our money to where we go, all right, the next best move is to pay off our debt with our money.

Otherwise, this is going to just be another checkbox on her resentment scorecard for you of going, remember, you blew my savings on that car and then you went and still did stupid money mistakes. you always do this, right?

That's what it's going to turn into cuz you never change your habits.

>> So, when when we talked about it, the reason that she doesn't want to do it cuz she said, "I'd be 100% on board." But we do have a daughter who she kind

of like she feels like if I ever have an emergency, I have this money instead of

having bills and getting loans to pay off if anything happens.

>> So, you guys need to go counseling.

Here's why. because she's in a just in case mode. She's like, I want to make sure I have this parachute here just in case I got to pull the lever. And so that points to either something that's happened in the past that she's not dealt with fully, or there's current trust issues that are actually going on between you and her that maybe you don't know about, but it's something that she's been ruminating on.

So, something's going on deeper here. And I don't say that to be negative. That's just what money does. Money shows you what's really in your heart and what's really what's going on.

And so this is good. This is good that you guys are seeing this. You're two years in. It's good that you're going, "Okay, there's something wrong here.

I'm feeling like this. I'm feeling I have to ask you for money. There's a lack of trust.

you're not going to be able to accomplish much if you don't deal with this. Because most goals um when you're

married, most goals are kind of underpinned by finances, right? Cuz >> it takes money to do stuff.

>> Yeah. It takes money to do stuff. And if you guys aren't aligned on your money, then there's no way you're going to be able to be aligned on the goals. Cuz let's just pretend your goal is, I don't

know, uh our goal is we want to get to the point that we take a nice vacation every year. All right. Then the way you guys are going, you've got to save for your half and she's got to save for her half. And what happens if somebody doesn't make it? Well, I guess we can't go on the vacation. Like, it gets very weird very quickly. You see what I'm saying? >> Well, I I think it's just the whole car thing cuz we've gone on vacations and

>> No, you don't see what I'm saying. You don't You're taking it for face value.

I'm talking about as a whole. This is something you've got to deal with because the car her not wanting to do

that or what that's a symptom of a bigger problem is what I'm saying.

>> What is this car worth?

>> Uh it's worth like seven to eight.

>> Did you roll negative equity into it?

What happened? >> Uh well I got the car few years ago. Um

I just recently crashed uh >> again. >> It was honestly just a stupid stupid mistake. >> You crashed again? >> Um no no no. when when I crashed uh our

our only car, I went in and I got this

car and um it was supposed to be like a good

thing, but it ended up just not being a good thing. >> No, I'm saying why is this new car that you got after the crash only worth seven, but you owe 20? It's only been two years.

>> I It was bad investment. It it I wasn't

supposed to get the car cuz it was a bad investment at the time. I like I said, I made a stupid decision and I thought I was on top of the world. But >> I'm No, I'm confused as to how the value went down cuz when you bought the car, it was worth at least 20, right?

>> Yeah. >> What kind of car is it? >> No, no. It's a 2013 Cadillac,

>> Samuel, I'm confused. How much did you pay for the car?

So, I originally got it for 20.

>> Okay. So, you put nothing down and you got this car.

>> I actually put $4,000 down.

>> That's wild. I'm so confused, my man.

You're not track I'm not tracking with you. How is the car only worth seven today? >> How did it drop $13,000 in value in two years? >> I'm I'm not sure. Kelly Blue's bucket the other day and it was at

it was from 7 to 9.

>> Okay. Something something ain't adding up here cuz I'm trying to figure out how much you're underwater in. I think you need to get rid of this car to show your wife that you're serious about changing cuz right now you're using her like a bank to bail you out. Bank of wife.

Guess what? She's not your mom. She doesn't want to be your mom. She married you to have a partner in life and right now we're still making childish decisions. And that's probably what's contributing to her having her uh safety harness ready to go at a moment's notice.

>> So, I think that we need to address this conversation in a different way. Not is it moral to ask my wife to pay off my debt. It's you going, "Hey, babe, I've really messed up. >> For the last two years, I have not been the man in this marriage that you need me to be.

I've been making childish decision decisions and I'm ready to change." Part of that is I want to get rid of this car and get something more affordable that isn't taking up a lot of our world. >> Will you help me on this journey to live debtree, to have an emergency fund, and to build for the future cuz that's the future you deserve.

>> Right. >> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. >> So, I think that's the next conversation to have.

Um, [music] and I think part of that is the counseling. We need to get to the bottom of what is holding her back from combining finances. But I think we both have a part to play in this. Yeah, >> that's marriage and we need to own up for the part that we played.

[music] And please, please, no more decisions that involve debt. No more decisions that aren't uh fully have her involved, [music] too. That's another piece of this. She hasn't been involved in any of this.

>> That's it for this hour of the Ramsay Show. We'll be back before [music] you know it.

>> [music]

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## 79. Getting Out of Debt Requires Radical Change | February 10, 2026


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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life.

>> [music] >> From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw next to me Dr. John Delony in the house taking calls about your life and your money.

We're going straight to the phone lines, you know the deal. We have Greg in [music] Phoenix, Arizona. What's going on, Greg?

Hi, uh yes, this is Greg and I

have about $10,000 in credit card debt.

Um I keep making payments on it and it ends

up going right back up to 10,000 uh due

to my drinking. Oh, no.

>> Yikes, man.

What are you doing to get a handle on your drinking, brother?

Uh I'm getting back into the AA programs

and uh church programs, but yeah,

getting back into it. Huh.

Are you ready to commit all in?

Yes, I am. Yeah.

So, how can we help you today, man?

Well, I originally reached out to see if there was any other advice besides cutting up my credit card.

Um so, anything besides that would be appreciative. Is it Is it just you?

>> to do that?

No, I do. I just I I have a little bit of nerves about it when it comes to emergencies and things

like that. I got to I have to use my truck a lot for work, so I mean, I'm going to have to change the tires on it pretty soon. Um I know I'm going to need a credit card for that. >> Have you Oh, sorry. Sorry, Jade.

>> No, go ahead. I was going going if we give you a financial solution for that, for for the things that you're concerned about, is that all that's keeping you?

What do you mean all that's keeping me?

If I If you leave this call today and I give you a plan for why you don't have to fear tires on the truck or all of those things that you're kind of feeling like, "Hey, I need the credit card to fall back on." Would that be enough for you then to to cut it up?

Yes, for sure. >> Okay. All right, so have you been to AA before? Yes. What would they tell you if you went into AA and they said, "Are you ready?" And you said, "Yes, except

I still need to hang out with these guys. I still need to go to this bar once a week and I still need to do something else." Would they have any confidence that you were going to be able to change what what what what alcohol is serving to cover up for you?

No, they wouldn't. >> Okay. So, the long as long as you keep this backup

plan on you at all times, 24/7, 365, the

chances of you using this backup plan

are 100%.

Okay. The path forward is really saying

never again.

And when you walk into your first AA meeting, it has to be never again.

And when it comes to I'm tired of making

as much money as I do and every month

I don't even know where it goes. I just look up and I'm back in the whole 10 grand. Until you decide I'm done with this and follow the plan Jade's going to lay out for you. And by the way, getting sober it's not easy, it's hard. Costs you a lot.

And it's worth it.

And getting out of debt is hard, it costs you a lot. And dude, the the path is freedom and peace, man. It's worth everything.

You just got to say, "I'm either in or I'm out."

I'm in. So, I'm ready to hear it. It's awesome. It's really good. Yeah, we're proud of you. Um so, let's talk about the money side of this. So, you've got tires on the truck coming up. It sounds like basically what's happened is you've kind of got in a paycheck to paycheck cycle. Yeah? Yeah. Yes.

>> Okay. So, what are you bringing in every month? What what comes what comes into your hands every single month?

I just started a job 3 months ago. I'm making 75k plus commission.

Um I do have a 1500 a month car allowance.

So, it's kind of more like 90k. Okay, good. >> Plus commission. Okay, so you've got a car allowance of

like a high amount. That's crazy. So, how much are you actually bringing home in your check? Like what's what are you writing on your budget?

Uh what I'm bringing home is approximately after taxes and everything about 5 grand a month right now. >> Okay, and is it just you or do you have family?

Well, I'm engaged and I'm about to

move in with my fiance um within a

couple of months um in May also. So,

that's another reason why I'm kind of holding on to the credit card a little bit. Okay, so I want to challenge that.

I don't want to bite off too much uh to chew in this little bit of time, but first things first is you getting yourself together. >> Amen. >> Um and that is on the addiction side and on the financial side. Adding a whole other person to this right now and moving in together, I'm sorry John, I'm getting into your territory, but that feels that feels like not the right move at this point in time, right?

You got a lot on your plate. >> It's like holding matches over an open flame and deciding, you know what? I'm going to pick up a gas can, too, while I'm standing here.

Yeah. And it's not to say you can't keep dating this lady or whatever, but go

accelerating to that point just feels like it doesn't feel like the right move. Um so, you've got good money coming in, you've got a great allowance here. Now, the only thing is we got to get this into a budget because there's something, obviously before it was the addiction, that was spending all your money, but right now something else is eating your lunch on a month-to-month basis. How much are you paying every every month for month for rent?

Uh, 1,300.

Okay, so that's not the problem.

Uh, what is your car payment?

Um, I'm $750 away from having it completely paid off.

Attaboy, way to go, dude. >> Amazing. Okay. So, and once it's paid off, do you still get the $1,500 allowance for your car?

Yes, I do. Okay, so why can't we use that for tires? Can you get tires for 1,500 bucks?

Yes. >> [laughter] >> I love this. Yeah, this is awesome. So,

is that I mean, is that it? Is that just the solution? Do we need to talk about anything else?

Uh, I mean, I just I know that y'all say it's a bad idea with the moving in and whatnot, but I mean, this has been the plan for a few months now, so it's going to be hard to reverse that. Not really. It's going to require some tough conversations, and I

have a sense I mean, I I don't know the lady, but you just called here and you

laid some pretty heavy things on on the table, and it made perfect sense to me.

It It was like, oh, logical, makes sense. So, I got to believe that if you talk to her and you say, "Hey, here's what I'm going through.

Today, it doesn't make sense for me to to to what John's point said. I'm standing in front of a fire. I don't want to add you and and and make this complex for both you and I." Or, let me flip it around. If If your fiance was a friend of mine, was she If she was my sister, my daughter, I would tell her, "Hey, continue to love this guy.

You You decided you want to spend the rest of your life with him, but he's got to go get well before before you fully anchor in.

And he's got to commit to looking himself in the mirror and saying, "I'm worth sobriety. I'm worth this amazing job opportunity I've got. I'm worth cleaning up and being disciplined with my finances, committing to something, and and and and not wavering." And then you can feel free to anchor into that concrete. That's what That's what I would tell her.

And my guess is you would tell if that was your sister or like, you know, your friend, you tell them the same thing. And so it's just a it's just a matter of man, what you need right now is is a simple plan, a simple path.

Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, nobody's telling you not to stay engaged, not to potentially marry this woman, um [music] but just do it the right way. And before you go, we're going to make sure Christian picks up and gets you every dollar cuz you need it so you can see where all of your money, all that $5,000 plus that car allowance, see where it's going every month, and promise me today you'll cut up the credit cards and buy the tires in cash.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, back to the phone lines [music] where we have Matthew in Columbia, South Carolina.

Hi, Matthew.

Hey, how's it going? Doing good. How can we help today?

Hey, I'm calling in because I'm in a unique situation here where my wife and I, praise God, just paid off, you know, all of our debt, over $150,000 worth of debt. >> yay. And uh yeah, it feels really good. We did it in you know, a couple years time, so that that feels good. We're freshly married, you know, we got on board paying off debt even before the wedding and you know, just so we're on the same page, you know, even during dating.

So, we've we've been doing everything right, trying to follow the baby steps.

Now, we're ready to replenish our emergency fund in baby step number two.

The problem is is my wife kind of just dropped this bomb on me today that she is with with or without my permission going to get her parents a used car.

And >> With or without your permission? Please tell me how that Tell me how that was said. >> [laughter] >> Well, so here's the thing. She it's with or without my permission because she she

up front paid a lot of you know, my student loans off and we ended up paying a bulk of it off together. Okay. And uh and so, but you know, I'm sure you already know >> owe her is what she's saying.

Uh-oh. >> As the great Warren G once said, "Hold up." Like, y'all paid off y'all's student loan debt.

That's how I see it. I I I see it as like, you know, we already have a combined, you know, checking, combined savings, combined high-yield income high-yield savings account. We have combined everything finances.

And so, I don't have a problem with her wanting to do something nice for her parents. I love them, and I want to do that for them, too. Mhm. But, the thing I have hold up on is the precedent that's set of, "Hey, whether you are on

board for this or not, this is on my heart, and I'm going to do it, you know, no matter what." >> All right, so let let me flip this around real quick. Are you a person

who Yes. can hear that conversation from her and honor it and and figure out ways to to connect with her on it?

Uh what do you mean by that? Meaning, sometimes, um we make bold statements like that, like, "I'm going with or without you," because the person we've been trying to communicate with is is stuck in concrete.

And so, anytime somebody says something that just sounds out of character or that just sounds wild, like, you don't have permission, like, you're all our mom and dad in some sort of weird marriage, like, anytime somebody says that, I always, this is just a personal thing, I go to the mirror and and see, have I made it hard for that person to connect with me?

Yeah. I I hear your question. I don't think so. >> Okay. I'm only saying that because the way I responded to that was, "Hey, I would love to do that for them, and I support you. Let's get it on our financial timeline to figure out where we can do that for them." Understood.

>> to hone in on the And she decided to hone in on the fact of, you know, she needs my approval or something, and she's saying that she doesn't need it because she paid off all this debt. Okay.

>> feel like that's us on the same page.

>> So, that tells me and John, strike me

strike me out of the conversation at any point, but what this is telling me is there was some part of her while that process was happening that she was doing it, but she didn't really want to do it.

Or she was feeling a type of way and never voiced it, and now it's kind of like resentment is there, which you got to nip that in the bud with the quickness. >> Yes.

It It scorekeeping will destroy relationships. >> Now Now, can I add something else to the conversation that it could be, but I don't think it is?

And again, John, come get me if I'm if I'm out here. Um I do think in marriage there is times where we're trying to accomplish a greater good, um or we're trying to go in the direction that we say we want to go in that we value, and one spouse will make a concession, right, in order to do so. And then there's seasons where another spouse makes more of a concession to do so.

Right? There's a part of that, and I I don't think that this is that, but I also just wanted to put space for that to be there. And if it is that, she has communicated it in a way that makes it seem like it's not that. >> In a bad [laughter] way, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, hey, here Here's your path forward, brother. It's to back completely out of the money conversation for a minute.

Okay? So So, money fights are almost always We've been saying this for years.

Money fights are almost always simply lights on the dashboard for a a a bigger issue under the hood.

And so, here's the framework I want you to use walking into this. Are you ready?

Sure. >> you to say, "Hey, um I want to have a a pretty heavy conversation with you. Is Is now a good time, or is this evening a good time?" If she says yes, great. The next question is, "The story I've made up is

Okay? That's how I want you to approach her. "The story I've made up is

you resent having helped me pay off these student loans.

The story I'm choosing to make up is I thought we were together and it turns out we're not.

The story I'm choosing to make up is you now feel like I owe you, that somehow I'm less than, somehow you're just going to make these decisions like a like a cowboy or a cowgirl, and

then the next one is here's how I feel about that. That makes me feel small, makes me feel like we're not on the same team.

And give her a chance to respond to that.

Cuz what you're talking about there is A, you're being humble and saying I'm making up a story here cuz you you you you you you don't know what is going on in her heart and mind.

But and you're telling her exactly how you feel about it. And you're giving her space to say actually that's not happening at all or giving her space to say you know what, I said that wrong or giving her space to say yeah, I've been harboring a lot of resentment. And if that's the case, you'll got to deal with that now cuz it will burn your marriage to the ground.

Yeah, got you. Mhm. If you come at her using you statements, you said this, you did this, she's going to wall up and fight you back cuz that's the word you is often a declaration of war when you're mad, when you're frustrated.

Yeah, and I always try and frame things when I have a you know, whenever we have like a disagreement or discussion, I always try and isolate the behavior and not the person. That way I'm not saying you are this thing, I'm saying this behavior made me feel a certain way.

Okay, I want you to you go one step further. Just start the whole conversation with with the the letter I.

I made this story up about what just happened and I feel this kind of way about it.

Okay? And you cuz even isolating the behavior everybody it's kind of a work around to an accusation, right?

Yeah. But you saying the word I, you taking ownership, this is this is was this what I'm making up and this is how I feel about this thing gives her an opportunity it's an invitation to respond.

And if she says screw you, if she says I don't care, she says I'm I've been doing all this for you and now I'm going to finally do something for myself, you all got to you all got to get on the same page with that deal. And can I just add a piece to that? If if it is, I will

almost cuz I'm listening to this and there's part of me that's going, you guys are newlyweds. I'm actually really glad this is coming up now instead of later and I might add that in and say if I if I'm right, if I'm feeling this and it's accurate, just hear me say I'm I'm glad that this is happening now than later because this is something I want to work out.

Cuz cuz if this is how if this is how she rolls is going to show up in the home you buy, it's going to show up the kids you have, it's going to show up in the jobs you do or don't take, it's going to show up the rest of your life.

And so getting back on the same page now, giving her an opportunity to explain, here's what I meant, here's what I was feeling, here's what's going on inside her spirit, man, that's a that's a blessing and a gift. And like Jade said, every couple I've ever met goes through things like this. And the fact that you're you're having this happen early on and you have the courage to face it head on, man, that's awesome. It's really good. So you're going to do it? You'll have the conversation?

Yeah, I'm going to have the conversation. I I think it's also not even just about the car thing. I think it's more about what you said earlier about scorekeeping because my stu- my student loan debt that was paid off gets brought up in a myriad of conversations, not just this one. Okay.

Yeah, it's it's always like my behavior or her behavior's justified or mine's just, you know, disregarded because you know, the student loan debt once existed. It's constantly like keep being brought up. Uh it was $120,000 of student loan debt.

Yeah. Um yeah, that's tough. That's tough. It's it's definitely something to work out and you might need you might need some mediation. Like you might need a counselor to help you be able to speak about it in a way that's like not harmful, but you're making progress and not just circling around it. It sounds like maybe she is. And both things can be true here, right?

She signed up for to marry a guy. It's tough. >> With 120 grand and a super frustrating.

>> It's tough. That's yes. >> She's allowed to have her feelings hurt and she's allowed to be annoyed and allowed to be frustrated and also [music] she made a commitment you and I ride or die till death do us part. [music] And so both things can be true. You can feel all kind of ways, but you got to be emotionally mature and go do the [music] next right thing.

>> That's right. That's right.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? [laughter] Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them Me too. don't know what to do next. Me too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly right. >> two options.

Take care of your dadgum family, man.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance.

Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable.

I've used them personally for 25 years.

They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

>> [music]

[music] >> All right, let's get back to the phone lines where we have John who's in Reno, Nevada, which by the way, whenever I think of Reno, Nevada, I think of the movie Sister Act. It will always be that way. I'm sorry, John. How can we help today?

Hey guys, it's a pleasure being on the phone with you. How are you doing How are you doing today? Doing good. How can we help?

Um good. Um so, my wife and I are in around $86,000

in debt.

Um and I'm considering um moving us to the hood.

>> [laughter] >> To uh What does that mean? Tell me more.

BACK TO THE HOOD. What does that mean?

Yeah. >> [laughter] >> What? Um well, it's it's not the area I'm considering uh we're considering is it's not the best. It's not the worst. It's certainly It's certainly uh not what we're used to, though.

Sorry, I'm still I'm still processing.

>> [laughter] >> That Well, I mean i- i- if you're trying to pay off $86,000 of debt, very little, if anything, of your old life should look like what you're going through. That's true. Yeah, that's fair. So, if you say um I

I don't know. Where I come from, that can be kind of a derogatory term. Like if you're telling me, "Hey, we're going to move to a way cheaper place to live,

um maybe bikes and a car or two in the yard, whatever, but it's a safe place to live. We're going to do our life and we're going to pay off our debts. I would say do it today.

Oh, okay. If you say I'm going to put me and my family in harm's way, we're going to be unsafe, then I would say that's not wise.

Okay, that's fair.

That's fair. Yeah, I'm all I'm with John. Going to a lower lower cost apartment, great.

Trading in your car for a beater, great.

Um if the hood is a place where there's

certain people, then we might have issue. But if you're just like, "Hey, I'm just really trying to cut down my lifestyle." then by all means.

>> Get on it, dude. >> Get on it. Jump on it.

All right. All right, thank you.

>> And And by the way, if you say the words or think the words, "This isn't how it used to be." you're probably on the right track.

"We used to be able to go out to eat and now we're not anymore." Good.

"We used to drive really fancy cars with insane payments every month and we're not anymore." Good.

"We used to have a house that we couldn't afford or live in an a super fancy apartment and we could barely make a rent and now we're living at a way smaller place and at in kind of a dive apartment for a season." Good, good, and good. Okay, you got to make radical changes, man, but also you got to keep yourself safe. >> Mhm. Mhm.

Okay. Yeah, tell us >> Yeah, I mean that Tell us more. I'm listening.

Okay, um well,

um right now we our rent is about 2,500.

Um I also have to We also have two kids.

>> I can say here in back there.

Yeah, yeah, we got two kids.

Um I work nights um overnight as a as a truck driver. I go to Sacramento and back, which is about you know, 138 mi

away. >> Mhm. Um so from about I don't know if I

should put my hours I'm gone, but I'm I'm gone for about I'm gone for about 12 to 14 hours a day. >> What do you bring in every month doing that?

Um I bring in 6,900.

Okay. And does your wife bring in any? I know she's taking care of the kids, but does she bring any income in?

>> [snorts] >> Yeah, she brings in about a thousand

dollars a month. Okay. So, on that

income, I mean you're almost at 8,000 bucks a month, you should be able to float. I mean it's it's a little over, but the $2,500 rent, it's not the thing that's 100% breaking you, but I mean how much cheaper do you think you could go and still be in an environment that's, you know, good for you guys and safe for you and whatever.

Well, I'll I'll be honest, I think that the $900 is is safe.

Um I mean there there's there's things that are like 1,300.

Um and they're like in areas that are similar.

Um and I kind of figure like, "Hey, if I'm going to go 1,300 and be in a similar area, might as well just go down to the cheapest I can find." Yeah, why not?

>> And it's the one bedroom. Yeah, and and and dude, just know, make a deal with you and your wife this is for a a short season. My wife and I sold our house and moved into a residence hall, into a college dorm with a with a toddler for We we did

it for 1 year and it it completely transformed our life. >> Yeah. Yeah.

I If your wife is on board and it's it's

accomplishing, it's ticking all the boxes, yeah, why not? You guys are young, now's the time to do it. Um again, it's not it's not the be-all end-all, it's not forever, but yeah, why not? But here's a way to burn a hole through your marriage, brother. If you're paying 2,500 bucks now and you find a place for a thousand and that $1,500 is not piling on

whatever else y'all can come up with to pay off this debt and it just slowly goes away and you know, DoorDash orders and you come home with some cool, I don't know, speakers or I don't know whatever, you come home with something that's going to end up being a big problem. So, if y'all make this commitment, make it for a season and be

really diligent about getting this debt knocked out. Yeah, that's that's all you can do. Uh thank you for the call.

That's a good one. All right, let's go to Justin who's in Houston, Texas. Hey, what's up, Justin?

Not too much. How are y'all doing today? We're doing good. How can we help?

I just really have a a question about um my wife and I both work. We just had our third child, so three girls for us and we're just really looking for some advice or how to how to decide if my wife should continue to work or if she should be a stay-at-home mom.

Um she recently got a new job where she's making pretty good money um working fully remote, but she's struggling with the uh you know, should we should should she stay at home or should she keep working? What does she want to do?

She doesn't know. She's torn. Uh I think part of the challenges experience-wise she was a school teacher for a long time. She's gotten into some good work and and this job is really through a couple of connections and I I think she recognizes that and it's going to be hard to replicate if she were to take a break and and be a mom for a couple years, but I think her heart's telling her that might be the direction she wants to go. Yeah. Is there any financial weight of this that we should consider?

Uh the the struggle we have right now, I mean she she makes like I said good money. Um it's comparing the daycare cost to that and and really money-wise it's not really an issue. Uh if >> Okay, you don't need the money. We don't need the money. Okay.

Um you know, there's no wrong or right answer on this, right? This is completely a values-based question.

Um I would be looking at a way to do this um I have found that when I'm making really major decisions like this, what really helps me is to figure out all the variables that are actually weighing in on my decision that I'm not even aware of. So, that's why I asked, is there a financial thing that could be somewhere in the back of her mind? Is there some expectation she might be feeling from you that's somewhere in the back of her mind? Is there any other variables to this other than what a great opportunity?

Right? Sure. Uh and that makes a lot of sense and I think um you know, again, my view is I think she's always worked her whole life, so I think part of her is is feeling like she'd be giving up some independence perhaps. >> There you go.

Uh-huh. For being fully retired and fully relying on me to take care of the family, but I think we also recognize that salary-wise I'm three or four X her, so it's not really an issue at this point, right? Yeah.

There's not really a way to win.

Right? And I've watched my wife who was a gangster research professor, a small business owner, and then a full-time mom, and then a teacher navigate these identities. And that's the part as her husband I way underestimated is the the weight of I'm a professional versus I am a stay-at-home and I should it always feel like I should be doing something else. The way we've navigated this in our house, Jade, is is we always

make short-term decisions, meaning let's try this for a season. You can always You can always You can always change.

And if this job doesn't work out, she's proven to herself there are people who will hire me and I do bring value. And so, I'm going to go all in, I'm going to go full commit to staying at home for 6 months or a year, and then we're going to we're going to um circle back up and see if this is still the right path. Or I'm going to quit this job, go I mean, I'm going to stay in this job full-time, and I'm going to do that for 6 months or a year and see how we are all how our house is operating, how I feel, how you feel, how we're working together.

Yeah, I think that's exactly how she feels is whatever is and any of the either decision is going to be a permanent, and I work on that one. Yeah, well, and and so do the next right decision for this for this [music] season. Yeah, you've got time. I I love that idea, and there's also maybe there's a world where she works part-time, and she's a little bit doing, you know, wearing the the boss hat, and a little bit wearing the mom hat.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music] >> Jade, I want to rally

America together to wish you a happy birthday. Oh. >> Happy birthday. Thank you. I appreciate it. >> 21 is a big one. You can drink now.

That's the whole thing.

>> John, I mean, come on. Just tell them the truth. I'm 35. I've been 30 >> 26. I've been 35 for about 7 years now

and it's a great age. >> That's awesome. I would not I would have put money on 28 or younger, so well done. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, after having talked about that, let's talk [laughter] about something even more troubling, which is tax season. Okay, it doesn't have to be troubling though if you have [laughter] a simple tax situation like if you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, you could really just use Ramsey SmartTax. Ramsey SmartTax is

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let's go to the phone lines. We've got Christine in Newark, New Jersey. Hi Christine. >> [snorts] >> Hi. Thank you for taking my call. You're welcome. How can we help today?

So, I'm One of those, huh? >> to figure out Yeah, yeah, it is definitely one of those. >> me a favor and talk directly into your phone for me, Christine. Oh, okay. Sorry.

>> Perfect. Thank you. Is it a little bit better? Okay.

Go for it. >> Um so, I ended up I I put myself into a lot of debt and I was trying to be proactive in the situation, and I joined one of these like debt relief programs where, you know, you pay monthly, and then there's a settlement fee or whatever. Um and being in that process, um I actually helped my ex-boyfriend uh get a car. He got that car repoed.

So, now I'm accumulating more debt outside of the what I already had in my creditors um debt relief program. My question is, is it best for me to maybe just file for bankruptcy cuz I'm still getting calls from the other creditors who are in my debt relief program. Um like just, you know, trying to negotiate or sending me notifications about whatever, you know, the the balances that are owed. And I now I'm accumulating even more debt outside with the repo.

Yeah. Um And I I mean it's it's uncontrollable for me right now.

relief program um to three creditors, and I'm only paying one of the creditors at this point. And I'm just thinking like it's going to take me years to try to get all of them settled. Um and I don't want to keep on just investing in something that's just going to like, I don't know, that's not hopeful at the end. So, I wasn't sure what to do.

Well, yeah, that's very stressful. If you're if you're making many deep breaths right now, I I understand that, and you should keep doing that. Um so, let me just make sure I understand the repoed car.

Yes, it is. Yeah. >> was it rolled into the debt relief, or it's just separate, and they're just coming after you for the difference? It's separate. Exactly. Yeah, it was it was not part of the debt relief. It's separate, and they're coming after me, too. Understood. What is Let me talk about the repoed car first.

What is the deficit that they're coming at after you for? Uh 14,000. Oh,

girlfriend. Okay.

They've already auctioned the car off, or is it >> Yep. Yep, it's already it's already taken. Yeah, I can't get it. Yeah.

>> Okay. And there you don't know where your ex-boyfriend is.

Um I I do and I don't. I I try to no

contact type of situation, so >> Okay. Okay, so I'm just going to hit you with something that just really, really, really sucks and I think you know this.

That is it's on you, girl.

Um unfortunately, when you sign when you cosign with somebody, you're you're just as liable for the debt. And you could say, if you said I'm not going to pay it, you're just going to feel the the dings and the dings and the dings and the dings on your credit. Um and I [clears throat] feel like it's more so about it dinging up your peace because they're calling you, right? So, you're going to have to add this to your snowball and I hate to tell you that. It is a lesson learned the hard way.

Sorry. So, what's your total debt load that you're trying to get relief from?

Um so, it's three creditors. One is 11,000, um another it's like seven 8,000, and

then another is 6,000. Okay.

>> So, in that in that ex relationship,

like I pretty much one was a loan, um and then two were credit cards that I kind of maxed out just so I can leave the situation and get an apartment on my own. Understood. >> I maxed out. So, what do you make a year?

Um a year? I well, I know I bring home maybe like 38, 39 a month.

>> Okay.

Um and then there's overtime and things like that, so >> With overtime, what does it look like?

On a on a month where you do some good overtime? You know what?

That's You know what? To be honest, that's actually I want to say that's including the overtime.

>> Okay. Okay. Um yeah. Okay. And then just

I always like to know where people's housing fits in that equation because if you're paying too much for your housing, it it it throws this whole thing off kilter. So, what are you paying What are you paying for housing?

Um so, right now I'm in an apartment complex and it's like 1892. Okay, that's

what's eating your lunch. Ooh, Christine, that's that's half your income.

So I'm paying I'm literally like living like I'm I'm so like I'm living like paycheck to paycheck, but on top of that I'm I'm in one of those like stupid app situations where like you can borrow from your next paycheck. >> Oh, girl, stop. Yeah, I know. I'm I'm telling you I'm I this is what I do to myself.

So >> I know, I know, no, okay. >> this is not what you Sorry. >> Okay, we're both on your side. We're on your side.

But you got to stop. You Are you with us?

Okay. All right. So here's what When's your lease up?

Um, it would be next June, like not this

June but next June. >> it a one-bedroom or a two?

It's It's actually a three-bedroom. I have three three kids with me. So I'm me and three kids. Yeah, three kids. Okay.

So what I try to do is I'd go to the uh

leasing office and I'd say, "Hey, um, cuz I'm pretty sure you can do this." If you just say, "Hey, I just want to switch apartments in in the complex, this one I'm having a hard This one is just too much for me.

with three kids I will hate myself saying, "You need to work more," right?

That's feels very impossible.

Um, I'm sure there's something you can do, but I feel like the bigger way that you can make an impact is on that line item on your budget and and basically to cut it down to I don't know, a thousand, eleven hundred, somewhere in that range.

Do you see what I'm saying?

No, yeah, I understand. Yeah, I see you.

Right? And it's going to feel terrible.

You're going to feel like, I can't Oh, I I have three kids. I'm making them share a room. I'm uprooting their life. I'm making them I'm making them I'm making them You're going to make them understand what it looks like to right wrongs.

And make things right. And that's the lesson that you're going to be teaching them doing this. So, tell yourself that when you start beating yourself up.

>> J, would you recommend she quit paying on this on this debt relief nonsense?

>> Yeah, let's go to that. That's super Yeah, debt relief done. >> It's a scam. It's a scam.

The reason that they're calling you The reason they're calling you is because the way those places work is they say, "Pay us the money. We're going to hold it in a pool, basically, and we're going to wait until these creditors get desperate and they're ready to make a deal." That's why they're calling you.

Cuz they haven't been paid. And so, you've probably paid a bunch into a pool. How much have you paid in?

Um so, I've been in this debt relief for maybe like 2 years now.

>> Oh my gosh. And nothing's been paid off?

And nothing's been paid off because obviously Well, the the worst of it was like the the larger amount creditor is the one that offered first, and I accepted it cuz I didn't know at the time, you know, what to do. So, yeah, so that's the $11,000 one, and it's like I I haven't made a dent in it. >> Yeah, so we're getting out of that today. I I would If I were you, I'd call them up and say, "I don't want to keep doing this anymore.

What's going to happen?" And just make sure you read through what the contracts said so that you can come into the conversation and say, "Hey, I want to I want to get out of this. I realize this is what I must pay, or this is the penalty." Cuz there's going to be some penalty fee. And just realize this was not the way out.

is It's really a I didn't know tax, and

you're going to feel that, and it's going to be in way of I spent years

paying a debt relief program to get nowhere and unfortunately I co-signed on a loan. But what you're going to find is doing this on your own, [music] you are going to go so much further faster.

Christian's going to pick up. We're going to set you up with every dollar and there's free coaching on there. I want you to call the number to get a couple of minutes of free coaching so you can figure out your next right [music] steps and call us back anytime you need us. We will will will be here to help you.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. We're going back to the phone lines where we have Ethan who is in my favorite place, Miami, Florida. What's going on, Ethan?

Hey guys, how are you guys doing? Doing great. How can we help today?

So, uh I'm trying to keep it brief for you guys. I I more or less have put myself

in a hole over the last 6 months or so.

Um made some dumb decisions and

have >> [snorts] >> locked myself in a financial bind. I

recently moved to Miami for work back in

October and it was about a $10,000 move

and to make it happen, I had to borrow money across some different avenues to make the move.

Um My rent is right at $3,000 a month and

late last year, I actually bought my

wife a new car. She needed a car um and

the payment for that is around $900 a month. Good. Oh God almighty.

That's a lot of money.

Yeah, it's it's pretty bad.

>> What's the full What's the full balance of the vehicle?

We owe about 50,000 on it. Wow. Okay. And we're

actually underwater.

>> [snorts] >> I've already looked into try to I'm sorry, I used the wrong phrase. We're upside down on it. Um

What could you get What's it saying for private sale?

I'm not sure, about 30.

Oh, is it an Is it a EV?

It is a 2025

uh Grand Cherokee.

Um Yikes.

That's >> So How much do you make it a month, dude? How much do you bring home?

Um my salary is right at 6,000 a month.

What about your wife? >> Um My wife is a stay-at-home mom.

How in the world did you figure a $50,000 vehicle?

Um My My wife has very good credit and the

dealer who sold it to us used

my income as the household income using her her credit.

So Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. All right, let's do this. Let's don't Let's don't Let's don't blame anybody.

Let's say >> not I made an irresponsible intention.

Yes, it's fully on me. I take full responsibility. How many kids do y'all have?

We have one son. Okay.

>> He is 8 months.

This is a hard truth that I'm putting on the table. Y'all have put yourself in a position where I don't believe you can afford right now to uphold this value

that you're holding, which is

we want her to stay at home with her kid for right now.

Y'all have a huge mess that can be solved in a year, in 2 years of everybody pitching in and going full bore.

Okay. But bro, I mean, you're underwater.

Is that Is that it? Is it Is it just the I mean, when I say just, is there anything to add to the pile of the $10,000 you borrowed plus the the the 20,000 you're upside down?

Is there more debt?

Um I I believe that that's about it. The 10,000 spread across couple different avenues.

Um Are there are like family members?

Did you borrow from family members?

Yes. Okay. Okay, so the good news is that's probably I mean, the way the debt snowball works, it's advantageous for the family members that you borrowed from and it's also advantageous for you because uh whenever there's people, you know, you've you've loaned money to family, it's just very very sticky and I want to clean that up for you.

Um here's here's the thing.

One making $100,000 a year is not what

it once was. And what happens is you get

the salary and you're like, yes, I'm making six figures and and and and it feels like it's going to be a way and then you're like, I made it to the pinnacle. I John Delony I remember that was the goal for forever. If you can make $100,000.

Yes. And then it's like, if I do that, I can get the place I want, I can get the car I want, I can live the life It was like that was the unlock.

It's not. It's just not. The way the world is, how expensive stuff is, and don't add a little bit of debt to it, right? That That money dwindles very quickly, which is what you're experiencing. Am I right, Ethan?

Um yes, that's that's right. To add to the situation, it's I am like paycheck

to paycheck right now. >> It's cuz of your rent, buddy. It's cuz your rent, Ethan, is 50%

of your take-home pay. There is no extra. There's there's nothing left. You could be a very reasonable spender, but when your rent is 50% of your take-home pay, everything is tight. So, first things first, um first things first is we need to find a cheaper spot. Now, you're in Miami, is

there a way to go a little bit north?

Can we go, you know, to a area that's less expensive? Can you go, do you see what I'm saying?

I I believe so. The the whole issue with moving is just the lease.

Um to break the lease >> How much is it going to be? 2 months?

It's 2 months to break the a lease. >> think >> about that. If you keep this around for the rest of the year that you owe it, think about how much you're going to be throwing away. If you can find a place uh that you guys can live You have a 8-month-old.

They take up this much space. So, if you can find a place that's a one-bedroom and the baby's crib or you know, their stuff is in your your room or you put the baby in the living room, this is the time. We had a caller earlier. This is the time to do the sacrifice.

The kids are young. You guys are young. You get in a one-bedroom.

You see what I'm saying?

You go a little bit north. Maybe you have a little bit more of a commute, but it it could be worth it to you.

Um what kind of work did you move to Miami to do?

So, I'm active duty in the military.

Okay.

Is there an allowance of some sort?

I'm sorry. Do you get any allowance?

Housing allowance or anything like that?

Yes, so our BAH is 3,200 and our rent is

2,900 and some change.

So, like within the BAH range, we're actually you know, within the budget, but But is that part of the 6K or is that in addition to?

That's part of the six. So, it doesn't matter at that point. Yeah, you're underneath your housing allowance, but your overall monthly income is still more than 50. Therefore, yeah, what I said still rings true. So, the key here is we got to cut the rent in half at the

least. >> Can you go live on base for a year?

We don't have that option um on this base. Okay.

Yeah. And then what I am going to do, and and I hate to say this, but yeah, I'm going to go down to the credit union. Uh if your wife's credit's still good before, you know, before you start missing payments, go down there and say, "We want a loan We need a loan for the difference here. We need a loan for $20,000.

And what's better, the only thing better than paying off $50,000 is paying off $20,000. Okay? So, instead of having a $50,000 loan, now you have a $20,000 loan. And now that frees up a a couple more hundred bucks um in your budget every single month. Do you see >> $900. >> Yeah, do you see how that works? >> $20,000. Jeez.

I I see how it works. >> Yeah, so that's what I want you to do, Ethan. Uh none of this is going to be uh pretty nor fun, okay? This is going to be something that you're going to look back on, you know, 15 years from now and go, "Oh my gosh, remember that apartment? Oh my gosh, remember when we got that loan?" And by the way, get the loan for 25 so that you can get it, you know, have a little $5,000 car that you drive, okay? That's the way this works.

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>> All right, back to the phone lines where we have Claire who's in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Hi, Claire. How can we help today?

>> Yeah, so I have a question about how to start a conversation with my family about some student loans. Um my mom helped me take out some parent

plus loans. They are all under her name.

I went to college about $36,000 worth

with a verbal agreement from me that I would help her pay them back. Um but now

that it is time for me to pay them back cuz I am out of college and they are coming due, um she is requesting the $36,000

payment in full.

But when I look back on my tuition bills, she received $17,000 in refunds that she never put back towards the loans.

So, I'm trying to figure out how to start that conversation [laughter] of I am not paying you $36,000. I am only

going to pay the amount that I used rather than what was >> [laughter] >> Yeah. So, it's I don't know. It's been interesting and I don't know how to start that conversation. Okay, so can can we cut right to the chase here?

Yeah. Um your mom Man, I hate to say this. This one hurts to say. Your mom is deceiving you. She's lying to you.

Yeah. And I just have a personal rule that if I'm dealing with somebody who lacks integrity, A, I'm going to make sure I don't lose my character in the process.

And B, I'm going to be very clear about what I will and will not do.

And I will see that through.

Because Because trying to preserve the relationship, she's already burned it to the ground. She's trying to extort you for $17,000 more. Wild.

Yeah. Right? That's That's madness.

A parent of integrity If If I did this with my kid, I would say, "Hey, dude, I actually spent 17 grand on my own. You owe me this much money." And it's It's a lot. It's not a number that you forgot. Like, "Oh, I forgot I did that." I I Honestly Honestly, I I I would I would print the bill out and go sit with her.

And say, "This is what was paid for my bill. I don't know how much you ended up taking out or how much you had deposited into your accounts.

Where's the other $17,000?"

Yeah. Yeah, she did let me log into her

like parent plus loan portal so I can

see how much she really did take out cuz for me and all of my sisters, but I had a feeling because then that would have made my schooling um

a total of $64,000 for 3 years, and I

only went to a state school. So, that price didn't really make sense. Plus, I was like in state. So, I did some research, and now I have to figure out how to have this conversation.

No. You got math on your side. You have bills and math on your side. I think it's a pretty straightforward conversation when it comes to the what you owe.

I think it's a harder conversation about what her choice to lie to you has done to your relationship. I'm I'm to find any I'm trying to find any reason this might be different. Is there any way that like during that Did she Did she buy you a car during that time?

Um so I lived at home. Uh so no. Um

there was one year I did move out

and lived off campus with some roommates, but I paid my rent. I also like paid my cell phone bill to her.

Okay. She did buy a plan for me. Wait, you're

breaking up. You're cutting out on us. Yeah, you're cutting out on us.

Okay. Oh, there you go. Now you're back.

>> you lived at home, you paid rent, but there was one time when what?

She bought a meal [clears throat] plan for me. A meal plan?

Yeah. It was like $2,000, and I figured if it became a super big issue, I would offer to pay that back, too. I I I I listen, if she if meal plan is part of school, I might add that back in and and

say say that. Say, "Hey, I looked it up.

Here's what I found. You know, slide her the paper like they do when they when you make a negotiation." And say, "Now, I do know that there was the one semester where you played paid for my meal plan. I know that that was $2,000.

I don't know if that's part of this. I don't see it. Uh you know, try to have some goodwill there, I think, but I agree with what John said, man. This is dirty. I hate this for you.

Yeah. Yeah, it's tough.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I I would commit walking in the door to what your boundaries are going to be on this one.

And play it as straight as possible. And the best you can, this is going to be hard cuz it's your it's your freaking mom. >> Your mother. But keep your wits about you and keep your integrity and keep your character and don't yell, don't scream, don't make accusations. Just be very clear. And luckily for you, this is all this is all tracked, right? You can see what she took out. You can actually probably go to the college and get the the bill that was transferred the day bills were paid.

I mean, you can do some a little bit of forensic accounting here and figure out exactly what she paid and exactly what she kept for herself. Wow. Shouldn't have to be like that. Jade, I've I've heard this over and over and over again working with college students.

I feel like we are in the era of the parent plus loan. I feel like we are getting so many calls about that. I don't know if it just happened, you know, in that decade >> the era, it's the bills are coming due for that era. Oh my gosh, and I just yeah.

I mean, obviously if you sign a parent plus loan, the parent is the one on the loan and usually what's gone awry here is there is some sort of verbal agreement either you will pay or you won't pay and then the time passes and inevitably someone forgot. It's either someone forgot or >> They change it. If you're in a position where you need to borrow a ton of so much money that you need to get a full Stafford loan and get a parent plus loan, Yo. then you're in a financial situation that's that's already challenging.

of integrity, another level of discipline to not spend that five. Oh, yeah. Cuz it feels like it just got free deposited. That's a problem for future us, we'll deal with it later. >> Yeah. And my daughter's going to be rich one day, she can cover it.

That's And that's not the agreement we made. >> It's not. It's not. Plus it's a fraudulent use of student loan money, to be honest with you, but it is [clears throat] what >> it is. Yes. >> So, yeah. But it's Jade, I cannot tell you how often I heard this story from college students. Parents would take out loans in their children's name and use that money to

pay for stuff around the house or whatever. >> Yes. And it just became it became an off-book stimulus program in a way.

>> Yeah, cuz you get the you get the amount of money needed for that that's allotted to you for the semester. The semester you So, say you get I don't know, I'm making this up. Say you get $7,000, but you only needed $5,000. The quote refund, 2,000 bucks just sitting there.

It's like, well, I may as well take it.

>> It's real hard to not >> Man, and so not sending that money back.

What's the moral of story, children? To to check your bill and make sure that YOUR PARENTS AREN'T JACKING YOU? Is that I think anytime you go into an agreement

with somebody you care about Yeah. and there is like financial borrowing in between you two, just expect that that relationship's going to get sideways at some point. >> It's going to and the best thing you can do um if you are listening and you're like, "Oh crap, I think I have parent plus loans and I think that this could end up being me." Try to jump on like don't wait. Don't wait.

Find like talk to that person today and say, "What's the deal with this?" If you're thinking about taking out those types of loans, of course I'm going to tell you don't do it.

And I know it's a tough conversation cuz let's take a minute and talk about this. College is expensive.

It's filled with expectations on the student end and the parent end, right? How many parents get so much pride over saying My kid goes to this school, yeah? Yes. Yes. And then there's the student who is probably in one of the most emotional periods of their life making this decision and it's like this is where all my friends are going and don't you want me to have this college experience? >> Colleges tune the sell the sales cycle

to a 18-year-old 17-18-year-old's feeling. >> Yes. Right? You hear college students say, "This was the one." Right?

Like they're choosing their like, "All right, well I got to mortgage my soul to because they found the one, right?" It's madness. It's madness. It's madness and and then there's the element of I guess I'm going to call it some sort of shame because what we're finding is a lot of parents are taking out parent plus loans and not telling the student that they did it. Not telling them that that's the way that this whole thing is being funded and then it comes back to bite in the butt later.

So guys, our teaching on this is so solid and so clear.

cash, okay? And I know that that sounds what? JD, you've lost your mind. No, the way to do it is you have to start talking about it before you're 17. You have to start talking about it very, very early setting that expectation.

Yes, you're going to school if it suits you because maybe college life doesn't even suit you for the career that you want. That's another conversation, but make sure it's said, "Hey, you don't have a college fund. We may not have a 529. We expect you to work part-time [music] or we expect that you'll go to a community college." Whatever that is, parents, please have that conversation.

There's no shame in that game. It is a privilege [music] if you are able to pay for kids' college and it is a privilege for both the parent and the student.

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This is what they said. They said, "I love this app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband. We've implemented this practice since our wedding day, and we've had zero money fights because there's full transparency and we're on the same page. That's what I would call a win." Hey guys, you can do this, too. You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree, and you can live like no one else.

Go download our EveryDollar budget app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Love to hear it. All right, we've got John in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

What's up, John?

Hey, how are you guys doing? What's up, brother?

Hey, I was about a month ago or 3 weeks ago, I was an unfortunate victim of a crime that has totaled my wife's car. Oh. >> Um Yeah. What happened? Just unfortunate, wrong place, wrong time.

Um and my question for you is, we were about to start Baby Step 6, and now we're looking at options for a new car. And insurance is going to give me about $25,000 for the car that was totaled.

Um and my question to you is, is this an emergency fund situation where if we have some emergency fund dollars that we could put some of that toward a new car, or does that not fall into the bucket of emergency fund uses? Well, what was your wife's car worth? Usually, they'll give you the the value.

They did. It was worth Yeah, it's worth 25K. So, why wouldn't you not just use the 25 Why wouldn't you just use the 25,000 to buy a $25,000 car and and and move on and continue with Baby Step 6?

Well, I figured that's what you were going to say. The whole thing has been very emotional for us.

And my wife really loved her car. And so when dealing with this, you know, I can certainly go get a minivan for a six-person family for $25,000 easily. Um but it's not necessarily what she wants to drive. And I know that's probably not what you guys want to hear.

What happened? >> but it's just been uh So she was going on a retreat with some of her work um ladies. And the night before she said, "Hey, could you go fill up my car's gas? Would you mind?" I said, "Actually not." And while I was out, uh I decided I was going to get her a car wash as well.

Oh.

Wow. >> took they they took off Did they wreck it or something?

Uh yeah, I won't bore you with all the details, but it is completely totaled.

Man, I'm sorry, dude. That's terrifying.

That's traumatic. >> Yeah, it was. But we're working through it and God is good and he has a plan in all of this. I'm just trying to make the best decision moving forward.

Yeah. I Th- This like if we were sitting together and we had an hour just to hang out and have some nachos, I would say this a lot kinder and I would take a lot longer to say this, okay? So it's going to sound pretty abrupt. Is that fair?

No, that's That's fair. All right. Um this is one of those moments where the

line not by your hand but in your lap

really rings true.

You trying to be a good husband ended up in a wrong place, wrong time, and somebody truly victimized you and your family.

Sure. And you have a mathematical reality to deal with today.

Yeah. All right?

And so I it's your emergency fund, right? I mean, it's it is what it is. What I don't want you to do is to say, "Hey, this bad thing happened to us.

And since we really want something else, this is kind of our path to get the thing we really want. Cuz what you're going to find is that momentary "Hooray,

I got this awesome car." is going to come at the expense of well, now we've got to stop everything and build up our our emergency fund or we're going to have to make a car payment and you're going to find yourself lower than you were before.

Yeah. It's going to feel like a short >> it seems like the only way there is is backward, you know, and that's not what we want to do. We don't want another car payment. Um but I don't Yeah, it's you're just trying to I'm trying I think I'm trying to make the situation easier than it is, probably. No, I think you're trying I think you're continuing to try to be a noble and good husband and a good man and try to take away that

terrifying reality from your wife that to sometimes awful things happen.

Yeah. And doing an emotional thing next, which is I'll go buy you whatever car you want, it's going to be awesome and we're going to try to smooth over this pain with a not really wise purchase on a depreciating asset isn't the isn't the path forward, right? Really grieving this moment is the path forward. Going slow is the path forward.

Um Yeah, I agree. And I How how much money do you make a year, brother?

Uh between the two of us, we're we're around 250. Okay. So, how how In all

reality, if and this is going to sound nutty, but if you just held off,

could y'all one car for a month and just squirrel away everything you got?

Probably Well, it's it is a good question. Probably not. We just um We have four little kids, so we're split up between dropping them at school and my wife works a few days a week and I work every day of the week. And so, it's just the reality is is been a little bit challenging the last 3 weeks.

We've actually been uh borrowing a car that my dad has available because my mom actually recently passed away, so Okay. There's just all sorts of stuff going on. Yeah, sounds like a whole lot of going on. My My recommendation to everybody when something when a lot of life is happening at the same time is to make as few big decisions as possible.

Yeah. Until the smoke clears. If you could, just look at your wife and say, "Hey, we're going to white-knuckle this thing for 60 days." 6 0, that's it. 2 months. And we're going to drive this borrowed car and we're going to save up another 10 or 15 grand.

And then we're going to go get whatever car you want. Man, that's going to feel totally different.

Yeah, I agree. Maybe more fulfilling eventually. I promise you it will be, but it will be super painful right now. It'll feel like just getting kicked again while you're down, right?

Yeah. How much is in your emergency fund?

Oh, about 30,000.

Okay. Yeah. I I I think you're going to I mean, how much would you pull out of there?

I don't know. Any Excuse me, anything similar to what we had is probably going to be after tax around 50k would be my guess. Well, your your car she was driving, how old was it? Cuz it wasn't worth 50k at the time of the accident.

>> No, no, no. It was 20 It was 2016, but it had very low miles on it. 2016.

>> And this won't surprise you, but I put uh new tires on it 2 days prior. Of course you did. Yeah. Again, [laughter] cuz you're a good husband trying to take care of your family. >> I mean, can you afford on your salary to have a $50,000 car? Yes, you can. Do you have the cash today to buy it to have a $50,000 car?

Uh not unless you have another stash of liquid cash somewhere aside from your, you know, emergency [clears throat] fund. Um I think that you would feel if you took your your $30,000 emergency fund

down to even 10 to do this. I think that would make you feel I I don't think you would like the way that felt at night.

Yeah, I agree. Now, with four little kids. Yeah. And even if you if you took it in half and brought it down to 15, I still don't I mean, I could be wrong, John, but I don't think you would like the way that feels.

Yeah, I mean, we really to having that.

Exactly. Exactly.

>> You know, it's hard it's hard to go backwards. Yeah. >> Which is why it's such a conundrum in my mind. Well, here's the thing.

Here's the thing. If you buy something used, quite used, for 25,000, and you get something quite nice, but quite used, you really the the vehicle's really already taken the hit. And and in 6 months or in 8 months, when you've saved up some more, you could sell that vehicle really for probably what you paid for it and put another 10 or 15 with it and get what you really want.

>> Yeah, I agree. And can I give you can I give you a psychological [clears throat] trick?

Whenever something happens to us like this, um we feel like someone, whether it's the cosmos, whether it's the thief, whether it's the whatever, somebody owes us.

And that might be right in this sense in this justice sense, but it's not true in stone-cold,

feet on the concrete reality.

And so the more you're you live in this that's not fair, this isn't I don't like this, this shouldn't be this way, the more you're you're you're divorcing yourself from the reality in front of you. The other thing I want you to imagine, if this is the first big thing like this that would happen in your life, this sounds harsh to say, but the world you had, I would even go as far to say the marriage you had, is over now. Y'all

are living in a post somebody put a gun to your head and stole your car reality.

And so saying, "Okay, we're now moving forward, what do we want this world to look like? Do we want to go backwards financially? Do we want to live in debt?

Do we want to really grieve what happened and recognize we need to keep our head on a swivel, life's a little bit different now, and we're going to make the next right move with the 25,000 bucks we got?" Like, stop trying to say it used to be or we just want to get back to or it's It's fair.

>> [music] >> Man, the path forward is woo, this happened. What are we going to do next? What's the next right move for us? >> [music]

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>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored [music] by WhyRefi. If your private student loans are in default and other lenders said no, WhyRefi could be your next step. WhyRefi was built for this situation, helping borrowers refinance with a low, fixed rate and an affordable payment so you can get back to winning with money. Check out whyrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter Y R E F Y dot com

slash ramsey. Remember, it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Elise in New Jersey.

Elise writes, "My partner and I have a blended family including four children.

When we discussed buying our home, we agreed that we would put both of our names on the title and mortgage. Bills are split between us." All right. Um bills are split between us with him paying more. After we moved in together, I found out that he has wealth that he had not disclosed to me. He was awarded a million dollars from a lawsuit. He draws on his disability, doesn't work, and makes more money than I do. I wake up before dawn, go to work, and take care of 90% of the housework and kids' responsibilities.

I'm livid finding out that he has such a large sum while I'm living paycheck to paycheck. He buys himself $5,000 gifts

whenever he wants and tells me like it's nothing. Should I let my anger go or let my partner go? Ooh child, that's wild.

John. Listen. Listen. Every once in a while I ask myself like how long is this

this job going to last?

And then [laughter] I read this and I'm like we are going to be employed forever. Man.

This is um okay.

Yeah. So she she says like quote she says um uh she says I'm livid while I'm living paycheck to paycheck he buys this. So

I don't think she's mad.

It's almost like let's be clear about what the problem is. The problem is not that he's spending some of the money.

The problem is not that he's telling you that he's spending the money. The problem is that he lied and never told you this money was there to begin with.

>> He's deceitful. He lied to her. He rubs her nose in it. And he's not a participant in the lifeblood of that home. Not at all. And I for one, I mean

progress is possible, John. You know, everybody everybody can change like Rocky Balboa said, but I for right now, I'd be like, oh my gosh, I'm I'm dodging a bullet by by by

finding this out while we're still engaged. They're still engaged, right?

Yeah. >> It doesn't even say. It just says her and her partner, so I'm assuming they're not married. Otherwise, I hope they would have put spouse, but um They did buy a house together.

>> have They blended their kids. So, at least I Yes. Oh, lord. Lord. Lord.

>> have dodged a bullet like the Matrix.

Yeah, I She She Should my anger go or let my partner go is the ending question. I rarely say this uh this directly, but I think this is one that I say, "Bye, Felicia. I'm out." I I would.

I mean, if you wanted to I It's easy for us to say on this end. If you wanted to

um go further in on this and be like, "Listen, this is so not okay with me.

The only way that we can go forward is to have like some intense intense some type of counseling to try to repair this." Sure. >> Well, the relationship you thought you had is over. It's not even the same person. >> up, right? So, now it is, do I want to rebuild a life with a person?

And what would that look like? And I'm going to give him a path back to re-earning trust. And it would be from

not re-earning cuz he never had it. It's going to start from square one.

Like we got to tell the truth with each other. We have to support each other.

We're not going to Venmo each other for light bills and water bills. We're going to Our money is going to go in one pot and we are going to pay our bills. Okay.

>> This is madness. It's madness, but uh it's madness but and uh at least I'm kind of pivoting from you but going to the larger conversation here. Here's the problem with this whole deal because Elise, you're not the first one who's called in with a situation where kind of the story changed, right? I was with this person.

Once we made this leap over here, now I'm seeing the real them, right?

The problem when you enter into a relationship and there's no real commitment and you say okay to everything. Okay. Uh you want to combine our families and we're not married? Okay. Uh you want to have sex and we're not married? Okay. You want to move in and we're not married? Okay. >> buy a house together? >> You want to buy a house together and we're not married? Okay. Do you want to keep our our money separate even though the rest of our life is fully together?

Okay. You are setting in many ways you are setting yourself up to be a sitting duck for this sort of thing because this person can say, "Hey, we never actually committed." There was never actually a thing where I said, "All in." Therefore, why do I have to >> Well, it it it let's let's go even further. This guy would say, "Hey, as she wrote, we agreed." >> We agreed exactly >> exactly what we agreed to. Exactly.

And is it nefarious? Sounds like it is. Is it Is it something >> exactly what y'all agreed to. Right.

And that's the thing. That's why the rules There's a There's a reason that there's order to things because when there's order to things, it helps things be in order. Well, and it helps it helps darkness come to light. >> Yeah.

I'm not going to um buy a home with you

until both of us have a sitting with a

mortgage lender and both of us have our financial lives laid out in front of both of us until we both commit to like outside of those you just leave pockets of secrets even the ability to have secrets, right? >> Yes. So yes, so the moral is and this is

not just to women, this is to men.

Require commitment. Like go require it.

You're not going to just give people access to these major meaningful parts

of your life that have the ability to really screw you if if they if they mess with you. Don't do it unless you're getting full commitment. Require it. I don't just I my pastor used to say this, you know, we we talk about commitment and and it's really an all or nothing deal that like that is what it is.

Like you're in, you fully commit, you're like locked in. And what's not okay, it's [clears throat] never okay for somebody to say, "Yes, I'm committed to you, but on Sunday I do my thing. Like [laughter] like on Sunday I go out. That's my day, you know, I'm everything but that, right?" And it's the same thing with marriage.

You can't be like, "Hey, I'm committed to you. We can put our kids together. We can you know, buy a house together, but when it comes to my money, that's you know, that's the day I do my thing. Like that's my son right Do you see what I'm saying?" Require it.

Like somebody should say, "I commit to you and I will take everything and I will show you my everything." Like that is that is the best part of marriage is

having full transparency. And if somebody's not willing to give you that, cut them loose. And I yes, amen and amen. And I I I just it's it's amazing this is coming up.

I was just reading a a pre-copy of my friend Shawn Johnson and her husband Andrew East wrote a book on this commitment. She's a Olympic athlete, he was a pro football player.

And the whole premise of the book is so powerful and that is we've lied to ourselves and told us our culture has told us that you always have to leave doors open, you always have to keep your options open, you always have to keep an exit strategy, you always have to everything is always on the table for negotiation, and what both of them this book is so powerful.

Actually, freedom is not in endless choices and endless opportunities.

That's a recipe for anxiety and chaos and being paralyzed. Right? There's tons of of psychological research about that.

The power, the freedom you're chasing is actually in going all in.

And going through the difficult conversations, through the difficult negotiations. I want to stay up late, I want to go to bed early, I want to keep my money, well, I don't feel safe. Going through that and coming out on the other side anchored into something bigger than yourself, that is where we all want to

be. We're all just chasing this lie of man, you always got to have a you always got to have a crack in the door cuz you never know, you got to keep what's yours and don't let them have everything. And what that does is it keeps you from ever having anything. Wow.

Wow. I'm that's something to think about. That is there's a lot in that.

But what you said reminded me of it's kind of like part of this is when you

say okay to less than what you were saying.

You're avoiding the conflict of it.

>> the conflict and you're making a statement about your own perceived value of your worth. >> Yes. But going back yes, and going back

to the conflict part I read a long time ago, I can't remember what it was, but it was talking about how our greatest relationships, right, when you see it as concentric circles and they go out out out out. The the the core of our relationships, the ones that are in the very middle, that's our husband, maybe your best friend, those are the people who are willing to enter into real conflict and come out on the other side. Because conflict is connection if you both are anchored to the same thing. >> Yes, that's why there's concentric circles cuz the wider out you get, those are the people who aren't willing to engage in conflict.

conflicts to get to the other side and be there with you." >> Yes, cuz cuz being celebrated and challenged matters. It matters.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm here with Dr. John Delony. We're still taking calls about your life and money.

So, call in 888-825-5225.

Jennifer from Detroit, Michigan is on the line with us. Hey, Jennifer, what's up? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Yeah, how can we help? >> Um So, my 23-year-old son will be graduating from the University of Michigan in May and uh he has racked up

$96,000 in student debt.

Um he did have a scholarship that he

lost in his freshman year and I've done

everything I could to help him apply for scholarships, get him to sit down and uh

get some type of money other than

student loans and he didn't want to participate.

Now, my dilemma is he's 23 years old. He

just got a full-time job in supply chain management. He's going to be making about 70, 72, maybe 75,000 depending on

overtime. But, he also went out and against mom's advice, went out and got a brand new pickup truck uh at $400 a month plus insurance. $400

a month? >> I Yes.

So, do I charge him rent

um living in my house for the next year is what he's predicting or what I would charge him in rent, do I make him pay towards his student debt?

What's the purpose I want to know your heart behind this. Are you would is the rent as some sort of like retribution? I

guess Or like it's some sort of punishment or is it No, no, no. Um, I I don't want to enable bad behaviors. Um, I I've hear I've been

hearing people say Oh, you know, if your kids going to be

living at home, they should contribute to the household. >> living at home?

Uh, he he's not ready to move out yet.

He's he's graduated.

Right. He doesn't want to move out yet for another year. Uh, his girlfriend uh,

is going to be She went in to um,

graduate school. She'll be graduating year. So, it's my guess. >> with anything?

I know. I don't know how to have that conversation with him. >> I don't think I I mean I'm just going to be straight up with you. Uh, Yeah. he's

He It sounds like you've been displeased with some of his choices. That's fine.

Um, despite good advice being sent his way, that's fine. I fear that because of that this is just one of the the fears on my list. I fear that because of that if he moves in you're going to find yourself meddling.

Because you already know, well, he did this, he shouldn't have done that. And then there's he did this, he shouldn't have done that. And I think that that's going to be not good for neither you nor him. Like that's just not going to be good. Um, second, he makes $70,000 a year.

Move out. >> Right.

Move out. Um, Yeah. >> Here here here's what he Yeah, I here's what he needs.

He needs a sturdy mom.

Mhm. Not a rigid mom, but not an overly

flexible one either.

Right. >> And so whether you charge him rent or if you just say, "Okay, for 1 year, here's the deal. You are his new landlord.

And you get to determine any and all stipulations for living in your house."

Let me say it clearly, he doesn't get a vote.

Okay. You get the vote. And then he gets to make a grown-up choice. If a company is going to trust him with $75,000 worth of his um uh skill set and and he didn't have any wisdom yet. He's only 23. But with with his judgment, then he

he has enough judgment to make his own grown man decision on whether he's going to follow mom's rules.

And and that might be, "I'm going to let you live rent-free for 6 months or for 1 year, but my expectation is you put this much money a a month towards your student loans, and your student loans is this dollar amount when you leave.

And every month that you don't send it in, you get one and done and you're out.

You're evicted." Here's the only thing I Okay, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm >> But only thing I don't like about it, I think it's a The only thing that I I don't want to say don't like, the only thing that bothers me about it is you're still telling him what to do.

Which in your house, you have the ability to do that to your child. >> He's opting into it at this point, though. >> opting into it, but I feel like a guy like this, he needs doesn't need mom to tell him what to do. He needs to go out in the world and learn. That mom was right all along. That mom was right all along, and it hurts to have $96,000, and

you shouldn't have taken out a truck payment. I feel like if he's still there, he's going to keep the car. He's not going to sell it. He's going to move very uh sheepishly on these these loans.

Uh that's my only concern. Oh, I I I've got uh 50 concerns. I I

The [laughter] the fact that that you told us he's not ready to move out yet, and you're letting that be a reason why he's going to move in?

That in and of itself is a joke.

I I don't have a problem and I'm I would love to be able to have him move out. My mom has a house that she had to move out of uh to an assisted living that's

sitting empty and we've offered for him to make the rent rent payments and put it into escrow and when she sells the house, he gets that uh money back. He

refuses to do that. So, I don't know how >> When you say refuses, what does that look like? No. He does What does that mean? >> to. He's like he he goes, "I'm not ready. I don't want to take care of the yard. I don't want to take care of the house. Well, he he's he's allowed to do that, but he also doesn't That doesn't

mean he automatically gets to then move in with you.

Both things can be true. Well, you're not living here.

When he says he's not ready to even Okay, so take the grandma's house Take grandma's house off the table. When you say, "Hey son, just go on and get an apartment." and he says he's not ready, what does that mean?

He doesn't want to go out. He doesn't want to live on his own. Yeah.

>> He He doesn't have any buddies close enough to him that he'd want to have a a roommate. >> Yeah, but he does want to make a hundred thousand dollars worth of financial decisions and not study or not or get in trouble with the school and lose your scholarship. He does want to make big boy decisions when it comes to just walking out and buying a truck he can't afford. And and it's very um there's nothing that you can say concrete that says "But I will be in one year." Right?

What will happen that will cause you to be ready in one year? Do you see what I'm saying? What can he point back to? What What What are the steps that will be taken that will let me know that I don't know, just emotionally or socially you'll be ready to do that in one year even.

>> [gasps] >> One of the greatest gifts we can give them is the consequences of their own problems."

Yep. And my guess is you've been bailing him out for most of his life.

And there will come a day when the the bailout stops, the sooner

and the more preserved y'all's relationship is, the better.

Yeah. Okay. And the good news is, here's the thing, Jennifer, it's not like you're saying >> [music] >> and the door is locked and you can never come He can come over for dinner, I'm sure, as much as he wants. He can come over and watch the game. He can come over and you can Do you have Do you have his laundry at your house? But he's going to throw a grown-up temper tantrum. "It's not fair. I can't believe you're doing this to me." All that stuff. And he's going to he's going to throw a

an age-appropriate temper tantrum.

That we should have held these boundaries back when he was 12, back when he was 15. Now he's 23.

Um so we're going to have to weather that storm, but we're going to stay sturdy in that storm and stick to our guns on that. What's the greatest thing [music] for 30-year-old him, 28-year-old him? Um it's some really firm boundaries from Mom about [music] what she will and will not accept.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

>> So, here's the deal, guys. We wish we could get to every call and question on the show, but that's just not possible.

So, if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to our website and use the Ask

Ramsey, okay? Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven

Ramsey principles. You'll get an answer the same way that we'd answer it right here on the show. Uh ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com or click I'm sorry, or if you're watching on YouTube or listening to the podcast, just click the link in the description. All right. All right.

All right. Going over to Timothy, who's in Albany, New York. Timothy, how can we help today?

Yeah. Hi, you guys. How's it going?

Doing good. >> was just curious.

So, I'm 25 years old.

I'm married. I have a 2-year-old.

And I have about $5,000 to my name and I'm expecting $11,000 tax return because

of extra withholdings from last year.

And the only debt that I have, you know, we rent and stuff and we have cars that we paid cash for. Um the only debt I have is my wife's student loans, which are around $12,000.

So, I'm curious and I can tell you the interest rates on each one of her loans.

Um if you'd like, but I'm curious if I should take this $11,000 that I'm getting from the tax return and pay off

the majority of that the debt and be left a very minimal a very minimal what do you call it backup fund emergency fund or if I should put that into like a savings account or something maybe a CD that gets 3% or something high and have it just counteract the interest while I'm paying it off it's very low payment monthly. Yeah, I liked your first idea.

11,000 is the refund amount?

Yeah. And 12,000 is the student loans amount?

Yep. >> And then you have did you say you had 5,000 in cash somewhere?

Yes. I would pay off as soon as you get that refund I'd pay off the entire balance of the student loans and I'd use $1,000 from your your savings. Bro, you're about to be free.

This is awesome. >> Free. So you think you have I mean it's just a scary place being the only person that makes income. It's scary to be debt free. Be debt free.

I've never heard anyone say it's scary [clears throat] to be debt free.

This is a risk placement. It's where you're placing your risk and it happens all the time. So you're you're you're not different than a lot of folks that call in.

When you're talking about fear it's kind of like oh I'm really scared that something will happen, right? And what could be the worst thing that happens? You lose your job in this situation.

Yeah. Okay. So you lose your job. Let's

just play it out. You lose your job and instead of using the tax refund you you know just just before you lost your job you put the tax refund over in savings and so now you've got you know $16,000 in savings still got the 12,000 student loan and now you've lost your job. First thing is like okay I've lost my job I'm only going to pay for the most important things, right? So now you're trying to

scrimp on things and you're like maybe I won't pay the student loan and now suddenly that student loan payment is even more like punishing to you because you're like I'm having to take money that I don't have and I'm having to pay that bill every single month. That is stressful. Right.

Whereas if you say, "Hey, >> could be if I lower my if I lower my expense it takes to live by paying off my debt and I have some money saved, some money, if the worst happens and I lose my job, it costs hardly anything to even operate my life cuz I have no debt. I don't have to worry about bill collectors calling me. Nobody can take anything from me.

Nobody can come after me cuz I don't have any debt. And the good news is,

let's pretend uh you know, you had a couple of months.

How quickly could you save back up the $5,000 that you had? You would you're going from four to five or from five to four I should say. How quickly could you put another thousand dollars there?

A thousand, I'm I'm not sure. Um my wife

and I have just started our super budgeting. I've been doing most of the finances since we got married in 2012. >> Surely you could do it quickly without without a student loan payment.

>> Yeah. And without any other debt. >> we're even paying on it right now.

Okay, then that means that >> It's just growing on you like a cancer.

>> Uh-huh. Uh-huh. What do you make every month?

I make around 5,000. My wife makes 200 bucks. Okay. >> So with no with no debt, you think in

two months you can muster up 5,000 500 bucks this month and 500 bucks next month somehow?

By cutting back? >> I think you could. You have to cut back a little bit, but I think you could do that. And then you're right back money savings-wise, you're right back where you were and you have no debt. And can we call out one other thing? Have you gone to fix your withholding?

I've I've up I've For so I just got a new job a couple months ago and I'm not withholding this year. I just got a job right at the start of this year, but last year I was withholding. So if you think about it, um this isn't new money.

The government just took about a thousand bucks a month from you and held it for you interest-free.

>> Right. That's right. >> And then they gave it back to you. So, if you'd been making that thousand bucks a month or I mean closer to 900 bucks a month all year, this student loan would have been paid down. >> I'll you're going to get what is the equivalent of a thousand-dollar a month raise. That you should have had all along. And and that Yeah, it was your money all along.

And so, do you feel >> That that is a good point. And and bro, I've been paying So, being 25 years old paying for everything is stressful. I just just about turn 26,

so I'm off my parents' health insurance for $150 a week. >> Yeah. Okay, but can I can I can I do something that doesn't get done enough?

Can I celebrate you, man?

Cuz I hear a ton of young men just opting out completely of responsibility, of fear, of things that like don't have certain outcomes. They're just quitting.

And you looked and said, "You know what?

I'm going to go in. I'm going to commit all in with one person to get married.

We're going to go do another terrifying thing. We're going to combine our finances. We're going to do another terrifying thing. We're going to make a human, maybe even more." Like, dude, I want to celebrate you because what you're going to find on the other end of this responsibility is purpose and deep deep value and more joy. More fear,

yes, but more joy than you could have ever imagined on the other side. So, I applaud you, brother, for going in at 25. And you're feeling the weight of that squat bar, dude, of taking care of a family. That's where you get stronger.

That's where all the good stuff in your life's going to come from. And I'm proud of you, brother.

Appreciate it, though. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. Listen, choose freedom. Don't chase interest rates. Choose, as for me and my household, nobody will ever own us.

And that just means I'm not going to borrow money. >> to a lender, right? >> That's exactly right. I'm opting out.

>> I appreciate it, man. >> I'm proud of you, man.

Call us back into your debt-free screen, man. We're proud of you. Uh I love that.

That was so nice, John. People don't men don't say nice things to other men enough. >> I've got to change that. Um look, most of the guys in my life are the way we tell each other that we love each other is by making fun of each other. >> [laughter] >> Right. >> funny and that's that's 99% of my communication with my friends. But it's

it's one of the things I want to make different this year is if I see a man out in the wild like trying to make a difference in his home, in his family tree, in his community, It's a big deal. >> I'm I'm going to call it out because we need more men look seeing each other and saying, "Okay, I've got I've got another brother-in-arms on this one." Yeah, and listen, the ladies, we can help with that, too, huh? I mean, yeah.

So, I I'm going to say it the wrong way, but there I saw you post one time about like like grab your husband and like like grab his face and just look at him and say thank like I'm proud of you.

Thank you. >> Uh you're you're working hard and I see that. >> to melt the man in your life? I'm going to do it tonight. Grab your husband by the face and look him in the eye and and put your forehead on his forehead and just say, "I'm so grateful for you. I'm proud of you." Shoot. All right, Sam.

Well, should I get ready? >> That'll that'll end him. That'll [laughter] end him. That will end him. The most common thing

I hear from men behind closed doors is two things. One, I don't know why

my wife doesn't like me. >> Oh, no. >> And often when they ask that, I can say like, "Well, it's these 14 thing like, right?" Um but the other thing is

they they take they tell me in private, "I wish she could just understand that I do all of this for her." It's an audience of one. And and >> [music] >> and and here's the deal.

We go where we're celebrated. And if you're not your spouse's biggest cheerleader, somebody else or some other thing will be. And so, however hard it is, however difficult it is, >> [music] >> man, if you're married to a good one, man or woman, >> Let them know. Let them know and celebrate them. Um It It just It means the world. It does. All right, Sam Warshaw. You already know. You already know.

>> [music]

>> If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back, March 14th through 21st, 2027.

Join the Ramsey personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Cay, Cozumel, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman on the ultimate debt-free vacation. Cabins will

sell out, just like last time. Lock in yours with a $600 deposit at ramseysolutions.com/events.

>> [music]

[music] >> Peyton in Lubbock, Texas, is on the line. Hi, Peyton.

Hi. What's up, dude? Um I've been a long-time listener, and um kind of nervous to be on the line with you guys, because I kind of feel like I already I you're going to say. So Uh-oh.

[laughter] Don't We'll be gentle.

Awesome.

You You get to pick the heat factor. We can bring it in gentle at a one or two, or we can bring it at a nine or 10. You let us know.

Uh let's go with an eight. All right.

Buckle up.

Okay, so um kind of a loaded question today, and it goes back I started listening to the Ramsey Show in 2020 um when I was incarcerated, and when I got out, I started doing things the right way. Um and then I lost my job and

fell back into debt, and um found another job, but it didn't pan out. Fast

forward four failed jobs later, and I get hit by a train. Oh my goodness. This is crazy. This is insane. This is unbelievable. >> You got hit by a train? >> Holy moly. Yes, sir.

>> Bro, your life is a love it country song, man.

So um I'm used to doing mostly manual labor in my life. Um I recently got married. Um

So that's a plus.

Um my wife and I combined finances, and I'm

going through all of our debts the other day, and I'm realizing that we're $100,000

in debt, and I can't work yet. And so I

started looking for a part-time job recently. Um she only makes $12.50 an hour, so she

doesn't really make a whole lot as far as income.

Um she's had a really hard time keeping a steady job in for the last four years, and I just don't I don't know what to do. I don't know where to turn. I'm I'm at a loss.

I'm I've I've called my way out of debt three times in my life, and I

I'm beside myself right now.

Um on top of that, I have a $750 a month

child support obligation that I am unable to pay.

So, my kids are going without and I'm

I'm just beside myself.

Hey brother, I want to applaud you for calling, man.

This is a hard phone call, isn't it?

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm grateful that you called.

So, some of the debts are she's got $5,000, almost $6,000 in student loans.

Um they have been deferred until this year, and

so now she's having to start paying on those. Okay.

And um

Um because I've been in and out of work for about 2 years now, um I'm already got back child support debts. So, How much?

Uh I've got about $10,000

on one kid and about 5,000 on the other. Let me ask

you, dude. The way you're ask you're telling us your story, um you fell into debt, you got um like

the jobs went away.

If you were to look in the mirror and take full ownership here,

why do you keep getting laid off of work? Are you not showing up on time? I There's construction going like I was just in Lubbock a couple weeks ago. There's construction projects all over the place. Um so, I recently moved to

Texas. Um Okay.

Like I got hit by the train. My My is

from a little small town outside of Lubbock.

And so when I got hit by the train, she

was already here. I just moved in with her. >> What's your medical status? When are you going to be able to to get back after it? There's there's so much opportunity for those who will pick up a shovel and get after it in Lubbock, Texas.

Well, like I said, um uh I'm already looking for a part-time position. Um abilities Uh I have a fused elbow and so Okay.

shoveling is not exactly Yeah, that's really challenging. Yeah.

Payton, when that happened, I mean, I I don't know of any other way to say it, so I don't I don't want it to sound um

rude, but were you at fault or was there was there fault Was there Is there any thing that's going to come up this >> at fault. Um I was definitely at fault for the train accident. Um I was I found myself making $50 a week uh at this

sales position. It was a traveling door-to-door sales position where they promised the world and never delivered.

Um so I uh I was making $50 a week and barely able to have food. She was working the same job with me and she couldn't make it either, so she decided to go home.

And I had seen what happens when

people leave the company when they don't have anything, so I wasn't about to get dropped off at a bus station with nothing. Um and so >> try to jump a train?

>> I tried to jump a train home. Okay.

>> And it didn't work. Okay. Um it was going faster than I thought and it caught me. So let me ask you this. Are you ready to change everything? Mhm.

Absolutely. I've If you only knew, my friend. Okay. All right. So here here's my call out.

Number one, when you get off this call, I want you to call over to Family Counseling Services. I think they're off Avenue Q over there in Lubbock.

Okay? >> Okay. And they [snorts] have sliding scale and they support folks who are struggling financially, but you got to get in and sit with somebody. Okay?

You got a lot of demons in your back.

Right? Yeah. Okay. Number two, you can't kind of look for a part-time job.

You've got to make it your life's mission to get two jobs by the end of this week.

And I'm and I'm putting that pressure on you cuz I think you can.

And they're not going to be fun and you're going to be exhausted and you're going to be sore, but I want you to commit to it.

Cuz what you need right now more than anything is a bunch of little wins.

And these debt collectors can ask all day long, but bro, you got kids and I want to get those guys squared up and you do too. I can hear it in your voice, right? Yeah. All right, so let the bill collectors keep calling you for a minute. You don't have anything anyway.

And your wife has got to either get the help she needs

or she's got to make a commitment, I'm going to go get a second job. I can't just can't just putter by on $12.50 an hour. >> She's actually about to get a $9 an hour

Well, $8.50 an hour raise Great.

Awesome.

Yep, as soon as she gets this test done.

Okay. But, listen to me. Jade and I are going to give you and her the premium EveryDollar app.

Mhm. Because you know as well as I do.

>> EveryDollar app because we're in Financial Peace University currently through our church. Sweet.

>> Good. Good. The worst thing that can happen is y'all get an $8 an hour raise or $9 a and you don't budget it cuz it will disappear faster than you get it, right?

Right. Yep. So, we're going to be we're going to be militant in our discipline when it comes to our spending and our budgeting.

And we're going to have to go for walks. We're going to have to go over there to severe park and go for and go I mean, go for walks together. We're going to have to get a I don't know, a soccer ball and kick it. We're going to have to do stuff that don't cost any money cuz that's where we are right now.

Right. Right?

And if you'll go get a job, you'll go get two jobs and you commit to a year of being uncomfortable. You're already uncomfortable. Commit to being uncomfortable to in a direction that's going to change your life.

Right. You know what I'm saying?

Yep. Go sit down with the counselor over there who will work with you and say, "I'm ready to change some of the stuff I've been put sit down some of that crap I've been carrying for all these years."

You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

We both think you can do it, man.

Also, you know what? Hang on the line. We're going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I want you to take the career assessment inside of it. It's incredibly insightful. And begin to ask yourself not just after a year of survival jobs, what do I actually want to do?

What can I do in this local community here in this great city of Lubbock, Texas? What can I do that's going to contribute to this city, to the people who've been where [music] like who are where I used to be?

And now you're talking about changing everything in your life. But you need to some little wins, brother. Hang on the line. We'll get you hooked up with some resources. We're We're We're your number one and two fan.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year, and I hope you are, too. But, the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money, or I'm going to get my financial act together.

But, without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win, and our EveryDollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes, EveryDollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now.

And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money, so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your pocket, helping you stay on track all year long. So, don't just wish your money works out. You can be the one to actually make it happen this year.

>> [music]

[music] >> The Ramsey show scripture and quote of the day, 2 [music] Corinthians 9:10.

Now, he who supplies need to the seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness.

Thomas Sowell, is that is that right?

Sowell? Said this, "It's okay to have your eggs in one basket as long as you control what happens to that basket." All right. I'm with you, Thomas. I'm with you.

All right. Ann is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hi, Ann. How can we help today?

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. Um so, guys, I'll just get straight to the point, and if you need more details, just let me know.

history?

Why don't you have any of that? How were you living before? I So, I am a long-term at Ram the

listener back in 2023. I paid off all of

my student loan debt of like 49,000. So,

um after that, I was living with my parents for a little bit and now my fiance and I are getting married this August. So, I've never had a rent

payment and um yeah, my student loan history is like the loan providers say that it's too long ago to count for anything. So, it's hard to get approved. Um what about your fiance who will be your husband?

What's his scenario? Cuz if you guys buy this house, it'll be together, no?

Correct. Yes, correct. So, he actually has he is debt-free, too. Um but he has had

like a line of credit since he's been 18. He's been very responsible with his

money. So, he does have a really good credit score. So, when we go into loan providers to get approved, he gets approved and then I get approved for nothing, basically. Okay. So, they're going to go It's going to go one one way or the other. You're either going to go like the zero credit score underwriting way or you're going to go the credit score using his credit score way.

Um in your case, the only I mean, I can go through the requirements, but I think you already know this. You have to show 12 months of documented rental history. And it's not by amount, it's just showing that you were good for a payment for 12 months.

So, unless you're in some way going to

postpone buying this house, I mean, I don't know. When's the wedding?

Uh the wedding is in August.

Okay. 2026. Yeah. Um other thing is

>> So, for manual underwriting, you have to show 12 months. >> Mhm. Yeah. You have to 12 You have to show 12 months of documented rental history. Uh you have to show 12 months of other trade lines, things like cell phones, utilities, insurance payments.

You have to show actual money, so you have to show income for the last 12 months, uh 24 months if you're self-employed, uh and also provide pay stubs for the last 30 days, um if you're self-employed. And yeah, so that's that's a necessity. So I have two I have

two thoughts on what you said. One is you can just say, "Okay, my husband has a credit score and it's really really good. We'll just get a mortgage using that." No one's going to fault you for that, um if he still has a credit score and it's still really good by then. Um so you could go that route. Second thought though that I have is what's the rush to buy a house so quickly? You will you will have just gotten married.

Usually we'd say, you know, wait a year at the very least 6 months.

Yeah, I I definitely see what you're saying. We're definitely not opposed to renting. I think it's just the fact that

um we've been pretty good at I mean, we followed the Dave Ramsey I have followed the Dave Ramsey plan and we've saved quite a bit and we're we're ready, I guess, if we wanted to be, but we're not opposed to renting, I guess, if that's your what you're hearing. It's just if we come across something we really love, we would love to put in an offer, but otherwise we we're totally fine renting.

I if you are a long-term Ramsey listener, uh can I throw one thing else at you?

Yeah. And you know what I'm going to say? Yeah, I think so. >> Yes. Um you put yourself we Jade and I would only have jobs.

Dave, Ken, Rachel, George, all of us, we'd only have jobs if >> [snorts] >> be- because people have these plans

and the plans don't work out like they hoped.

So I cannot tell you there won't be anyone else in the world other than your family rooting for you and your marriage more than me. I'm I'm the world's biggest fan of be- of marriage, okay?

And I only have a job because people get engaged and then it falls apart.

And so, you know I'm going to tell you this, I would not buy anything with somebody that I didn't have the legal protection of being married with first.

And so, even if even if that is nothing else to say, let's let's

rent let's let's get married let's live together let's figure out distance from grocery stores and distance from our favorite music clubs and distance from our church, whatever we want to do.

Let's get all that settled before we anchor ourselves to a home, especially when we don't have when you don't have neither of you all have the protection the legal protection of being being legally married. Yeah, I agree.

That's just what I would tell my friends, that's what I would tell my sister, that's what I would tell my daughter, that's what I would tell my son. So, I'm telling you what I would tell the people closest to me.

No, I I agree with that. I've definitely heard you all say that before and it has crossed both of our minds. So, And I know you all are special. The >> [laughter] >> only other people have issues, right? I get that I get that. But, um that's just something to think through.

No, yeah, for sure. >> So, have have you have you tried the manual underwriting process with the with the loan officer yet?

Uh yes, and the it's the 12 months of

rent history that I keep running into.

So, like I I've tried to like give them my student loan payments that I paid back like >> Yeah, but those are trade lines. That's it's not the same. It's it really does hit different. So, I I think this is a

let's call this um divine [clears throat] intervention? >> Yeah, this is a sign. This is a sign

that is maybe you're not quite ready. I mean, clearly you yourself are not quite ready because you don't have the necessary things in place.

Um and then if you guys get married and you guys go in on this obviously together as husband and wife, it might make sense. Uh like I said, to to do everything based on what he's showing on his side because either way it's going to run one way or the other. You're going to go based on manual underwriting with a zero credit score or

um it's going to go based on uh his side with a credit score. So, And know this, banks only make money when Well, it's not completely true, but they generally make money when they make loans.

And so, if if a bank looks at you and says, "We don't feel comfortable giving you this money." >> [laughter] >> Take that Take Take their word for it.

You know what I mean? Even if you're like, "Dude, I have a great job. I've got plenty of money in the bank." Whatever. All right, fine.

Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. We'll sock away more cash.

We'll rent a a small little place. We'll spend our time not worrying about the roof and the air conditioner, but just worrying about getting to to know each other even better. And then we'll buy a house down the road. >> Yeah.

Or, you know, right today you could start paying your parents some little bit of rent today and pay that through August or September, whenever it is you're getting married, and then you and your guy rent an apartment for 3 months, and then you're square. You're ready to go.

That's I don't know that. Is that Does that work? Can you do that? I don't know. That's That's a little shady.

>> [laughter] >> Say a little shady, JOHN. YEAH.

DON'T No fraud. No fraud.

>> [laughter] >> Run that one back. Okay. Yeah, so you've got some options, some of WHICH ARE FRAUD. >> [laughter] >> I'M SORRY.

UM YEAH, HOPEFULLY WE can talk some sense into this uh for you. I I agree

wholeheartedly with John. I would I would just wait. All signs are pointing towards wait. If you wait, you have everything you need. Uh you can buy the house together. It's fully secure.

Everything is on the other side of waiting for this. So, that is what I would suggest. And a muscle for you and your new husband to to begin to exercise is you both really want a thing but the timing is just not right yet. And learning to be frustrated together, to grieve together, to be annoyed together both towards the same thing that actually will make you all stronger in the long run. >> That's so good John. That that's a word.

>> cuz you're going to want a new Tahoe and you're not going to have money for it. You're going to want a third kid but timing is just not right. Like you're going to want things and you all are going to be frustrated together. Start practicing that right now.

Have you ever noticed Okay, here's a quick food for thought for the end of the show. When you're broke and I'm not saying they are. Have you noticed that when you're broke you want so much. There's so much that you want to buy and go do and everything feels like like anguishing to wait.

>> Why not Why not? Yeah. >> Yeah. And then when you can finally get it you're like oh.

I I maybe didn't want it anyway.

You just wanted the option of saying

I can choose. >> That's right. You know, it's just something to that. Oh my gosh, what a great time. Hey [music] guys, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus.

[music]

>> [music]

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## 80. Getting Out of Debt Takes More Effort Than It Took to Get You In | April 21, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broken and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network [music] and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show.

I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Warshaw is my co-host today, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author. Our phone number here is 888-825-5225.

The call is free and some [music] say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Shawn is in Fargo, North Dakota.

Hey, Shawn, what's up in your world?

>> Oh, not much, Dave. Just enjoying my life. >> Good. How can we help?

>> So, I am kind of stressed out right now

in a little kind of in a pickle, feels like, with my family.

They are give or take 5 to 6 million

dollars in their family business debt.

And I am struggling to

um struggling like to cope with like my dad has an ailing

health and he owns the family business and he is not worried about the major debt that

his business has.

>> Okay. Do you work there?

>> Uh part-time.

>> Okay. >> Cuz I can't I can't handle full-time there. >> Can't handle it. What do you mean? Him?

You can't handle him?

>> No, just the ideology he has in the

business dealings.

>> Okay. So, why is it bringing you stress?

You have a part-time job with a business that's in trouble.

And with a guy whose ideology you don't uh agree with. Why would that be cause you to be stressful? >> I will be most likely be inheriting it with my three brothers, the business, which is probably worth around $10 million.

>> Mhm.

>> And so I'm kind of in talks right now to take over the books and all the like the business side of it to pretty much be full-time.

>> When are you supposed to do that?

>> Um probably within the next 10 to 15 years.

>> I'm so confused. Okay.

Um Yeah, I mean, so you're going to be part-time with the guy you disagree with while he runs a business in the ground for the next 10 years and you're going to stand there and watch it happen and then they're going to hand it to you and call that a blessing. Why don't you just say I don't want it?

I don't I don't want it. >> Cuz so I I mean, it's a good Oh, I shouldn't say it's a good business.

But is it really worth cuz he tries to get

me to go full-time like almost weekly on a weekly basis.

>> Well, you tell us the upside because you called in and said all the negative things. So, it makes sense that we would say that. >> like something I want to do. Why would you want to do this?

>> Yeah. So, is it So, I guess I want to

ask, should I try to like almost intervene and be like, you should start taking off this debt?

Or because they're thinking about adding another >> Who's they? >> $1.25 million debt. My my family. >> Your brothers.

>> Yeah, my brothers. They want to go another million dollars into debt.

>> are your future Who are your future partners?

>> All my brothers. >> Yeah, but you said it You say your brothers are dumb as your dad.

>> You said it before yourself, Sean. You said their ideologies completely different than yours. And I think you need to accept that that that that's the case and you haven't said anything that shows any sign of them changing that ideology.

And so, if they continue down this path for the next however many years, they're just entrenching themselves further in that. And you're part-time.

>> What do you do for a living?

>> I operate heavy equipment.

>> All right. Are you a Are you the baby of the family?

>> No, no, I'm not. Second oldest. No, third oldest. >> Middle. Okay. All right. Yeah, um well, here here's the thing. I don't think that these people are going to change.

Do you?

>> No, I don't. I >> Okay. So, you either got to walk away from them or you got to enjoy their bull crap.

>> Yeah, it's the one way to put it.

>> I mean, you really do. You're going to have to decide which one you're going to be. If it's me, I'm going to let them have it. I'm going to walk away. >> Uh-huh. >> This sounds like a bear trap.

Sounds like it's going to tear your freaking leg off.

It's going to The next 10 years of your life are going to be pure freaking misery till the old man dies. And then when he dies, now you got partners that were trained by him called your brothers. No, thank you. I don't want in this.

>> For sure. For sure. >> Yeah, I just I I There's nothing here that aligns with who you are or who you want to be.

This all sounds like misery.

And there's not enough money there to fool with. Let them have it. They're going to screw it up. It's going to be worth nothing.

>> Yeah. >> And you don't believe that. You're still You think your your wife thinks you're walking away from a million dollars and you're not. You're walking away from a million dollars worth of debt is what you're walking away from.

So, >> years? >> I would sit down if you want to have one final conversation with the boys and with the dad and say, "Guys, I don't I'm I'm uncomfortable with this much debt and I'm not going to join the business as long as you guys continue to run it further up into debt and have no desire to get out of debt cuz it makes me uncomfortable.

And I can love you, and if you want to go over there and do something that I don't agree with, we can still be dad and son, we can still be brothers. I can still love you. >> Yeah. >> But I do not want to personally be involved in this. It brings me great stress just thinking about it. And so if

you guys want to commit to a path that gets us out of debt and keeps us out of debt as a permanent way of doing business, I would love to join and be part of this thing. I think it's got a future. But I am not going to get on this horse when you have this many bricks in the saddlebags. >> Listen, I agree with that 100%.

Clearly easier said than done. >> Sure. >> Cuz you're going to have basically your whole family on this side and you're the Lone Ranger over here. >> Yeah.

>> Well, the thing is you put her by on notice and a 100% chance they're not going to do it. >> No. >> And so you're basically saying, here's why I'm going to go on and have my great life over here and I'm going to love you. I've got family members, most of my family members don't know the stuff I teach.

>> [laughter] >> But I'm not in a I'm not in a deal with them either. And I still love them. Some of them even vote wrong. And I still love them.

But that doesn't mean I have to go around and be in business with them and it doesn't mean I have to sit around and be stressed and I'm like somehow guilted into joining something I completely disagree with. No, walk away from it, son.

You make a lot of money running your own heavy equipment operation without any debt. >> That's probably the other part of it is there's the a lure that maybe there's like that bit maybe just possibly one day it could be good then you look back and you're like, man, I I should have stayed part of it, right? He's probably thinking about that little one one or two percent. >> Yeah.

It's like I'm going to pet an alligator and hope it doesn't bite. What did I do? Did they bite? You know, it's dumb.

You're just asking for it. Don't think they're going to change. They don't They only do what they do one thing and it's bite. So don't Don't be shocked when they bite.

It's It's a predictable environment. And he he didn't hide it. He's not sure He just said, "This is who I am." And he kind of said, "Like it or lump it." So, I'd lump it. That's what I'd do. I mean, you know, it It's just It's hard to walk away from something like that, especially when all the family ties, it feels like you're being drawn in by a tractor beam.

>> Yes.

A gravitational pull. Yes, drama has a gravitational pull. I've noticed that.

>> Drama. Drama. Family drama will suck you in

and eat your life.

Yeah. And then we connect a little $5 million debt to it, just for the fun of it. Yeah. >> Right.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Martina's in Phoenix. Hey Martina, what's up?

>> Uh hi. Um I uh 2 and 1/2 years ago, I bought a a

car and um it's a good car. It's a 2018 Corolla.

Um but I have a 16.5% interest on it.

And over half of my payments go only to

interest. Um I'm actually the co-signer on the car on the car and my mother is

the main signer on the car and I have

had job instability, housing instability over the years. And I'm just now putting my life together.

Um but currently I haven't even been able to make my February car payment, so Um I also rely on this car as a source of income. Um so I don't What are you What is your advice on the car? >> I would look for a different I would start looking for a different source of income that's not tied to this car. My guess is you're doing some of one of the delivery apps.

>> Uh yeah, I'm actually a Lyft driver. Um

I had a dead-end job. Uh I quit that,

but I got a new job that is a really

good job, but um it just it doesn't start for a couple more weeks, so things are going to >> does What does it How much are you going to be making at the new good job?

>> Um about 3 to 4,000 a year. It's >> You mean a month? >> Oh, a month, I mean, sorry. Uh, month. I

um I I am a uh swim instructor and I'm

contracting with a pool that pays very well for their lessons. >> Okay. And then, uh what's What do you owe? What's the total amount owed on this car? >> I owe 16,200 and I originally paid 18,500.

>> Have you looked to see what it's worth?

Have you looked on Kelly Blue Book? Have you looked to see what it's worth private sale? >> Uh yes, it's worth 7,500.

>> Oh boy, what happened to it?

>> She's been driving Uber.

>> Oh, [clears throat] yeah, that's true, yeah. Destroying the car. Oh gosh. Okay, well, then your only choice here I mean I mean you're going to have to pay it off cuz it's such a low value.

Um, and you're going to have to work quickly to do it. Is it your only debt?

>> Uh definitely not. I've got about $50,000 in student debt and I ended up dropping out of school uh due to mental health issues and I have about $25,000

20 to 25,000 in personal loans and credit cards. And then I have an I don't even know how many thousands of dollars in medical debt. Uh it's I don't even like know >> So, you're going to be doing You'll be doing swim lessons at this place. How long is it going to take you to build up your lesson pool to make 4,000 a month?

Or is there a base pay?

>> Uh because I make uh I'm going to be making about 30 to 40 dollars an hour.

>> I still my question is >> to work you 40 hours?

>> Uh that's the plan. But yeah, that's the

problem is that it does depend on how many clients they get. If you get a lot of clients >> Yeah, I I'd be looking really deeply into that uh first off and my homework

for you leaving this call is I would have something else lined up that gives me the ability to work because you don't know how many clients they're going to send your way and you don't know how quickly your calendar is going to fill up and you've got to get started on this debt ASAP because here's the thing, if you default on another payment, it's really going to mess with your mom. I'm sure it already has, right?

>> What what we've got to start with, let's go back to basics.

All right? >> Okay. >> Before you do anything else with money, you take care of food, shelter, basic clothing, transportation, and utilities.

Okay? Do you pay Do you pay rent?

>> [snorts] >> I do and I live in the smallest cheapest apartment I could find here in Phoenix and I >> Perfect. So, you pay the rent.

So, you pay the rent and you go to the grocery store Stop. You pay rent, you go to the grocery store, you get the car current.

Before you do anything, all the other debts can wait till you pay rent, get the car current, get get food on the table.

Okay? [snorts] Before you do anything, you got to build a basic foundation in your life and that's food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities.

Okay? Now, once you're current on the car, then you can decide, let's reach out to the student loan people, let them know you need a hardship deferral,

and send them some of the paperwork on some of the mental illness issues you've had and just to let the bureaucrats have something to chew on for a little while while they wait around. You do nothing, you quit paying them for right now.

And then, you get this book of business at the

the swim lessons full as fast as you can and Jade's right. In the meantime and even after, >> [snorts] >> I want you to work all the time.

Cuz what you need to fix your whole life right now is $16,000.

>> Yeah. >> If you had $16,000 and this car payment was gone, we could really get after some of those other debts, couldn't we?

>> Yeah, it feels like that that um car

loan is a big wall between me and basically the rest of my life and >> Agreed. Agreed. So, we need to go find an extra $2,000 a month for 8 months

and smack this thing in the head.

>> Okay. >> But that's means like all you do is work, girl. You just work all the And it And it's not Uber. Freaking Uber's making the car worse. >> Mhm. >> Okay? You're putting so many miles on it. You've destroyed the value of the car. So, >> Yeah. >> But if they If you could If you can work 80 hours a week with swim lessons, just put your fins on and go.

Right? >> Yeah. >> I mean, if you can't get If you can't get a bunch of hours down there, then let's find something else that you can do that's the thing where you make the most possible money that's moral and legal.

Okay? >> Uh >> And I want you to go cray-cray for a while because the way you bust this is you throw dynamite in the middle of it and the dynamite is dollar bills.

>> Okay. I like that.

>> And and you just say, "Food,

shelter, lights and water, and pay off the stinking car.

And that's all I am breathing to do right now. I breathe in and out every morning. I'm tired cuz I work all the time, but by God, I'm making progress for the first time in 5 years."

>> Yes. >> You can do this. You can do it.

>> [snorts] >> What was the nature of your mental illness stuff?

>> Uh I have a uh level one high-functioning autism and that has made it hard for me to hold a regular full-time job. Um and then I also have have because of that stems to like some anxiety and depression. >> Yeah. >> Um I have uh over the last few months gotten on the right meds, gotten into the stable housing, and finally I'm starting to get my finances stable.

I'm trying to do baby step one right now and last few months >> the thing. Here's what I've worked with in 35 years of doing this.

And the thing I know is that depression is made worse when you feel trapped.

And when you're not in action mode. When

you get in action mode and get in warrior mode and get in attack mode, it helps because it releases the dopamine

and other things and it helps to melt away the depression. And the autism can the high-functioning autism can actually work on in your favor in those situations because you have the ability to do extreme amounts of focus, don't

you?

>> Um yeah, I'm really good at teaching people to swim and actually the gym I'm working at is uh called Ability 360 and it's actually an adaptive gym and most of their employees have some kind of disability. >> Okay. And anything you can do to help people work out. If you could do the personal trainer thing going. Like that.

But what we're going to do is use all of this situation to your advantage.

To that that that's the thing that has been a blocker for you but you because if as you start melting away these debts, first and foremost you get this car off your back, off your mother's back, your brain is going to clear up.

The fog that you've been walking in, the stress-related anxiety >> [snorts] >> of feeling trapped in 16% and feeling honestly shame about signing up for 16% too. That was dumb.

So you're not dumb but that was dumb.

So that you know, what you do is you get in attack mode, warrior girl. You put on your warrior stuff and you get after it.

Complete focus. I don't want you to pay anybody else. Just let them all go bad.

I don't really give a crap about your credit. You already don't have credit.

We We that cuz you had a 16.8% car payment. We know your credit's trash already.

So, I'm not worried about that at all.

I'm worried about you.

I want you to be free.

So, you hang on and we'll get you signed up for every dollar, and that'll help you walk through this stuff as well.

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>> [music]

>> Greg is in Nashville. Hey Greg, how are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So um I have some whole life policies

that me and my wife got like when we were like 20. I'm 50 I'll be 55

this year. >> I'm sorry. >> And I I know I know. I've heard I've been listening to you for the last year or so. But my question is on it

should we cash surrender those uh they're each about a hundred thousand cash surrender.

I don't think we have to pay on anymore.

I think they we've had them since we were so young that uh I think they pay for themselves each year now. >> Yeah. And uh I don't know if it's worth I don't necessarily need uh I mean I could always use extra money but um I don't know if it's worth doing the cash surrender on those policies or just leave them they're small I think they're a hundred fifty thousand dollar policies or something like that when we got them originally.

Is that right? >> Yes. >> And you and you have two and you have two of them. >> like they sold you on that stuff when you were young. >> No I I want to [clears throat] make sure I understand what you've got. Stop a second. Do you have two one hundred and fifty thousand dollar policies and each of them have a hundred thousand dollar cash value in them.

>> Yes if we were to surrender them now.

>> That's what I'm asking. Okay good. Okay.

And so if you die you know they keep the

hundred thousand right?

So you have fifty thousand dollars worth of insurance in essence. Do you follow me? >> [snorts] >> Yeah that I kind of heard that the other day on one of your shows and I that I didn't understand.

>> I don't understand it either cuz it's the biggest screw drop of the middle class in my life I've ever seen, but it happens all the time. So, that's how a whole life policy works. >> have a $2 million term policy that we got a few years ago. >> Okay, so you're covered if you die, right? You don't need them.

>> Yeah. Now, and and my question is even

about the term, too, is like, do I need to keep that up if my value or like my personal value or me and my wife's value is over that amount, should I like do I need that life insurance or is it just >> What what Okay, what life insurance is for

is to take care of her if something happens to you.

If you have $5 million in mutual funds you don't need life insurance. She's taken care of.

>> Okay. >> Does that make sense?

>> Yes. >> What how life insurance is for is to take care of you if something happens to her.

And if you have a big pile of money and you're okay without her income, then

she doesn't need it. You're self-insured on all of it.

Okay? Then back to the whole life. The whole life is paying an average of about 2% in growth on that 100,000.

Had that 100,000 been in mutual funds last year, it would have made 24%

uh on average, it would have made more like 12%. So, you're losing somewhere around 10 to $20,000 a year

in growth because that's so poorly invested. Oh, and by the way, when you die, they're going to pay $150,000

out.

>> Okay. >> Not a 100 Not Not plus 100,000.

>> Do I have to pay If we do the cash surrender, do we have to pay tax on that? >> Your tax basis in a whole life policy is what you have paid into it over all these years. I suspect you've paid $100,000 into this over all these years. >> I I would assume that was the same >> your basis is probably higher. It almost always is.

Uh if it's not, it won't be by much. So, you if you have taxes, it'll be very, very, very small.

But, you're if you just say, "Here's what my premiums were over this number of years and number of months or whatever it is that you know, that 25 or 30 years you've been getting ripped off, then easily you probably paid in 100k. You're going to get your money back out. And yes, I would cash it in.

And if [snorts] What did you What do you think your net worth is?

>> Mhm.

I mean, I think it's close to six, maybe. >> Six million? >> everything. Yeah, if I were to sell everything. >> So, do you think that the current asset base would generate enough income for your wife to be okay if you died today?

>> I mean, I think so. I hope so.

>> I hope so, too.

Yeah. I think I think it'd be pretty easily. That's a >> that was kind of one of my other questions is I got this I got some industrial property that I don't necessarily need anymore that I have that I still owe about

I mean, if I were to sell it, I could cash that out for about 2 million bucks, maybe. >> Yeah. >> Uh after taxes, but I do make income on

that. >> It's up to you. What do you want your money invested in? That's an investment.

And then you look at it and say, "Is this an investment that's giving me enough yield on my money?" I mean, long-term investments you ought to be making 10 plus percent on.

Whatever it is, real estate, mutual funds, whatever. There's not really anything else that you should that That's fairly low-risk portfolio that'll do that. Mine make a lot more than that and I don't take a lot of risk.

So, but you got to look at that piece of industrial property. Is it making you a good return?

And then dump that. But, um folks, the whole life cash value policy

is the biggest rip-off in the financial

planning world.

Um I mean, it's like it's like the payday lender to the middle class.

You know, payday lender screws poor people, right? And these people screw you. And um it's a horrible rate of return.

When you die, they keep your money cuz you've been paying extra for this savings account that you don't get.

They only pay the face value when you die. It's that simple.

And so get some inexpensive term insurance while you need insurance. This

guy doesn't even need that anymore, probably. Um and

put your money your investment money in good investments that go up and they don't keep it when you die.

And and then you're not building a building in the skyline for somebody else. Where do you think those life insurance buildings came from?

They didn't come from Santa Claus, I know that. It's the same place those banks came from. They didn't come from Santa Claus. It came from them screwing you with credit cards all these years and you're just smiling and going, "I got airline miles." And you're just getting screwed over and over and over again. And it's just, you know, that's how this stuff happens. It's called a transfer of wealth from you to them.

Because they're screwing you. And so you just [clears throat] learn about these things and you go, "Never again."

Changes everything. James is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi James, how are you?

>> Doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay, um I have a my youngest sister she and her ex-boyfriend

inherited a quarter million dollars about three to four years ago.

Um he has since passed from cancer.

And he um at the time I was going

through a messy divorce and he gave me $6,000 to pay for my lawyer so I can take care of my divorce. I was going through a rough time Um as a gift.

And since then you know he's passed on like I said and she has blown through all

that money.

In the meantime and and was back to square one again. >> Wow. >> And and she has not come out and said directly to me but I heard it through my

other sister that she keeps asking you know saying hey he needs to pay me back that $6,000 you know that's that was my money and >> So she's saying that he the boyfriend got the money from her.

And lent it to you. >> No no no it was his his parents it was

his inheritance from his parents.

>> Okay. >> Yeah and and I can afford to pay it back now I've been in I've been in a good spot in my life and I can afford to pay it back. I just don't feel like I have to I've helped her out with bills and stuff now that she's moved and have a lot of money like the you know the occasional electric bill things like that where she's you know called me up and said hey can you know I've done stuff like that for her. >> Y'all are a hot mess aren't you?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah right. >> [laughter] >> Are you are you afraid that she's going to do you're just afraid you're like why do I give her another $6,000 to be irresponsible with is what you're saying.

>> That then you know she has three kids with him they're older they're 17 18 in that range but >> Well I mean there's James there's two options okay. The third option is not keep whining about it okay. I would either call her and say your boyfriend gave me this money it's a gift I'm not going to pay it back or I'd write her a check.

But third option I'm going to keep whining about this and y'all keep this family drama going on on on and who said what and who told George this and good lord for $6,000 straighten it up man.

>> [music]

[music]

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Leland is in Oklahoma City. Hi Leland,

how are you? >> All right, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um so, I've got a question. I'm 22 years old, and I started a business last year, and it's kind of just went backwards on me where I'm to the point now where I've got a piece of equipment that I'm sitting here staring down the barrel of again, where they're basically probably going to come repossess it the first of April.

>> So, you started what kind of business then? >> Um, custom dry fertilizer spreading business.

>> Okay.

And so, you bought a What What is the equipment?

>> It's a applicator that applies dry fertilizer on fields.

>> Mhm. And what How much do you owe on it?

>> Uh, 178,000.

My annual payment on it's 40 $40,000 a

year. And everything's just went backwards since I bought >> I'm confused why they would loan a 22-year-old $178,000 on a piece of farm equipment.

>> Well, because I had a way to get into the business, and then since then it's just went backwards since then.

I had the money for a down payment, put the money down. >> How much did you put down?

>> 12,000.

>> But still, I mean, you were not even Were you in the business already?

>> I've been in the agriculture business all my life. >> You're 22.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Okay.

All my life is not long. Um >> Well, I've been been doing it ever since I could >> I know, honey, but I'm talking about what loans you $178,000

with a $12,000 down payment when you're 22 years old. There's nothing There's nothing that says this deal should have happened.

>> Leland, you can't turn around and sell it? >> I've been trying to. I've tried selling it with an auction company, but they wanted me to put a $100,000 up front before they'd even sell it.

>> Yeah. And so, you had grand plans of spreading

a lot of fertilizer. What happened?

>> Um, I I my name out within a 100-mi radius, and the farm economy the way it is, fertilizer prices is high and there's not a lot of people doing dry.

They're all going different routes.

>> I'm sorry, hon. This is scary, isn't it?

>> It Yeah, it definitely is.

>> Yeah. >> It's definitely scary to be sitting here in this position and it's just been haunting me ever since.

>> I guess.

All right. Well, I went broke when I was 28 and I had more zeros on the end of my stupidity than you do. So, I I got you beat. Um >> Right. >> Cuz this was straight-up stupid. And the guy that loans you the money deserves to lose $100,000. Whatever company did this. What's the name of the company?

>> I can't remember off the top of my head and I >> You owe them $178,000 and you don't know the name of the company?

>> Oh, I do. It's on a piece of paper at my house and I don't have that information in front of me. >> You bought it at a dealership, didn't you? What brand is it? >> John Deere. >> Yeah. I guess so.

So, you don't know John Deere Incorporated the money.

>> No. No, absolutely not.

>> Okay. All right. >> And And my plan was, you know, do 10,000 acres a year. That can be done extremely

easy and I found out the hard way that it has not been near as easy as what everybody said it was supposed to be. >> So, the moral of the story is we don't borrow money to start businesses because things never turn out exactly the way they're supposed to in business.

That's the rule of business and so that's the a lesson that sadly you have learned. The only good news is you learned it at 22. I learned it at 28.

So, I had the rest of my life to not do that stupid mistake again and you have the rest of your life to not do the stupid mistake again. So, the next time you have a bright idea and someone wants to loan you money to do your bright idea, you tell them no, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay, good. All right. So, we've learned our lesson. Now, walk through it. I'm so sorry, hon. Um So, I do not know a way around this

because I don't know your world.

I'm still just sitting here aghast that someone >> loaned you that money? >> loaned you $178,000 to spread fertilizer. That There's just so many fertilizer jokes that I could weave into this, but um >> Yeah. >> Yeah, it just kind of come They They just They just roll off the mind right now. But, [laughter] anyway, the um the spreading of fertilizer is pretty thick here. But, the um uh >> [sighs] >> So, let me tell you what I think is going to happen and how you can handle it.

Okay? I think you're going to get repoed at the first of the month.

I don't know how to tell you to stop that with anything that's reasonable.

One thing you could stop it with is a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, but that's a or a Chapter 11 bankruptcy even in this case, but that's a pipe dream because the business idea is dead and there's no way to revive the cash flow.

If you could revive the cash flow starting 2 months from now, you know, we could delay the repo and put it in by putting it into a bankruptcy, but I wouldn't do that here because I think this business idea is just a swing and a miss.

>> Right. >> So, I think they're taking it at the first of the month. Okay, then what's going to happen is they're going to sell the piece of equipment for X number of dollars at that same auction and then they're going to come knocking on your door for the difference. It's called the deficit.

Okay? So, let's play pretend. Let's play pretend and there's $178,000 owed and they sell the piece of equipment for $100,000 and they come see you for $78,000. You're 22 years old. You don't have any money.

>> Right. >> That's where we're going to be. It's probably going to be a year before they knock on your door wanting the difference.

It's not going to be soon.

Okay? And when they do, uh normally what happens is they push you and push you and the person files bankruptcy and they get nothing on their 78,000 in our example

story here. Okay? However, you have a year to prepare for this battle and were you to save up during this coming year by working your little tail end off uh $25,000 and you offer them $25,000 as

settlement in full on the deficit they'll probably take it cuz they're used to getting nothing.

>> Right. >> We settle deficits on car repossessions at 20 25 cents on the dollar every day.

I've not done it much on farm equipment so I don't know that world but it's probably pretty close.

And the reason we're able to settle those deficits at that is because they very seldom collect anything. Usually the person files Chapter 7 bankruptcy, they get a big goose egg, zero.

Especially when you look at look at it through the creditor's eyes. Not to put you down, Leland, but looking at it from the banker's perspective, I'm trying to get money out of a 23-year-old who's broke. The likelihood of that's close to zero.

>> Right. >> So if he stands up and offers me 25K, I

do a little happy dance and take it if I'm the banker.

You follow me? >> Okay. >> So what are you going to do for a living now that your life is starting over, sir?

>> I mean, I'm pretty much self-employed and don't have I mean, I don't have a college degree and >> What are you going to do for a living, sir?

>> I'm going to farm. >> You're going to farm? Whose farm are you farming?

>> Uh some some friends.

>> You're going to work on a farm. >> farm. Yes. >> For someone else.

>> Yes. >> And what does that pay?

>> It just depends. Sometimes $25 an hour depending on who you're working for.

>> Okay. All right. And then ask yourself, what do I want to be doing when I'm 32 that I'm a millionaire? And it's not $25 an hour work. I'll help you with that.

>> Yes, sir. >> And it's not going into debt $178,000 to spread manure.

Oh, no, this was dry. I'm sorry.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. But anyway, you see the point.

Yeah, so you got to figure out what am I going to do next? Cuz one of the things that I discovered when I went bankrupt because I couldn't turn it around the way I think you actually can turn it around if you'll work like a crazy person and stack cash and keep your living expenses very, very low. I think you can scratch up some cash and settle the deficit when they do come after you one or two years from now.

Don't call them. Wait for them to call you. And in the meantime, build a war chest.

And then settle it in full in writing settlement.

And I think you can get through this. I really do. And then you can just look at this in the rearview mirror as that dumb thing I did when I was 22.

I I can look at my life in the rearview mirror that whole series of dumb things I did when I was 28. >> Yep. >> You can You guys paid off um you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars because of dumb things you did in your early 20s. >> of stupid things.

>> Yeah. And so, it's I don't know. You're talking to the choir here, okay? Singing in the choir.

So, but I do want you to develop a future and a plan that doesn't involve a Hail Mary.

Don't do that again.

Learn Learn from the mistake.

And we'll walk with you. Anything you need, Leland, you call me. And if you want to save up that money and when they mess with you, you call me. I'll I'll walk you through it. I'll show you how to negotiate with them.

>> [music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on show, where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

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But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

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>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host. Diane is in

Chicago. Hey Diane, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Oh, yeah, same here. Well, I thank you for taking my call. Um I currently have um

a quite a bit of money in the bank, I feel. Um and I am thinking about my retirement and I'd like to know how

best I should invest it in order to make it last through retirement.

>> How much is it?

>> Um I so I have 600,000 in the bank.

>> Wow. >> Um I'm debt debt free.

Um I have two there's 250,000 in retirement. Um which I don't know what to do with cuz it's been with a cable service since um we had our own our own business. Um and it's just been sitting there. I don't know what to do with it.

I know nothing about it. I wasn't actively involved in our business. Um I stayed home and took care of our kids, uh raised them, and um have decided to go into my own franchise. And so I know that I will be using some of that money for the franchise.

a bank is the best place for it.

>> Yeah, how how old are you?

>> Uh 57. >> Okay. And you said you were not involved in the business and now you're opening a franchise with the business money.

>> Yes, uh-huh. Yeah. >> Okay. Um so your husband was running the business? >> Yes, uh-huh. >> Where is he?

>> Um he's he's at home. Um he is supporting me on my business. He's hoping at some point he'll be able to branch out and do something on his own.

Um but everything's been in my name.

Um the the bank accounts, the houses, the business. We sold the business last year and then um and >> the 600 grand came from?

>> Yeah, we sold it for 1.2 million, but we

were given a large lump sum and we paid off some unexpected unknown debts. >> Like >> Um okay, unknown?

You're being cryptic. >> I didn't I I didn't know about it.

>> You're going to have to tell You're going to have to tell us what's going on cuz you're not There's no making sense. >> My home My home My husband has a gambling debt.

I don't know what he He gets He gets a set amount every month that comes in that he collects and he uses that for extra curricular activities. I have no idea what he uses it for. >> You don't know how much he's >> I Oh, no, I know how much he gets. He gets $3,600 a month and that's his play money. >> Okay. >> Um I get $700 [clears throat] a month. >> basically got a gambling problem that ran you guys deeply in debt and that's why everything's in your name.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right, that makes sense. >> So, who's supplying the $3,600 a month for him to continue gambling?

>> Um we have $2,500 coming in from a rental that um that person bought the

business and he has the option to buy by the end of the year for $350,000 if he exercises that right.

Um and then he also gets social security of $1,100 a month. >> Okay. So, you At this point, you're okay with losing $40,000 a year with your husband. >> No, I'm not, but I have no control over that.

>> What's the What's the plan moving forward? Does he know that Does he know that he has a problem? >> a lot of control. You got everything in your name.

>> Right, everything's in my name. Um he knows that I'm opening up this franchise, which will be um approximately $125,000 to open a franchise on my own. >> Mhm. >> Um >> [snorts] >> He He is just kind of like leaving letting me leave the money in the bank, but I feel like it's not getting the best return.

So, I'm looking for ways that I can invest it. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah, there's a lot There's so much going on. Here's the problem. It's hard to fill up a hole while somebody's digging out the bottom.

>> Right. >> And that that's kind of what we're hearing here. But, you you feel like you've got him uh his his gambling addiction under control and I question >> No. >> because I've seen I've seen so many Well, I mean, but but uh and so, as long as you keep the stuff in your name, uh I guess you have the option of divorce at some point if he runs up you know, let's say he runs up a million-dollar gambling debt and you don't want to pay it with the money that's in your name, then you've only got one option at that point.

So, anyway, that's what you're facing. So, yeah, I would take the 600,000 and I'd take the 250,000 and I would sit down with a SmartVester Pro and begin to invest it in good mutual funds. If it averages 10% or more, it will double every 7 years. So, you basically got a million dollars in 7 years.

years old, you'd have 2 million dollars.

At 7 more years, at 71 years old, you'd have 4 million dollars. So, you're going to be fine if you do that and you don't piss it away with this uh franchise. If this franchise doesn't go belly up on you. And um so, and it

sounds like you've never run a business before. He ran the business before and now you're buying a franchise. So, that's a little concerning.

>> Is the franchise in the same like field of expertise or is it something totally different? >> No, it's something that I'm passionate about. Something that is for me, not for him. >> Yeah.

>> I don't expect his involvement in it, but I'm very confident and very passionate about this and I'm expecting for it to be very successful and I have a family that is willing to stand behind me and support me. So, that's not even a question whether or not that's going to be successful. I'm confident that it will be. >> Yeah.

So, there there is risk that you're not perceiving, apparently. So, yeah, you're going to buy it and you're going to do it, but I want to insulate you from you and this bad decision, if it's a bad decision, and I want to insulate you from him and his continuous bad decisions with $600,

going over in a regular low-risk investment in comparison to gambling and in comparison to franchise purchasing.

Uh and so, let's put some money over there. So, if these other two things go sideways and this plan doesn't work um

then uh you know, you you've at least got that money working for you. So, yeah, you need to sit down and do that and you need to put a real limit on

the amount of dollars you're going to pour into the franchise before it starts giving you money back instead of you putting money into it. >> Absolutely. >> And cuz if you don't, with the level of unrealistic optimism that you're coming at this with and you're positive uh how positive you are about it, then you're going to end up going 300 grand in the hole on this thing.

And I If you want to put 125 in it and you believe in it, go do it. Go live your dream. I ain't got a problem with that. Uh what I've got a problem with is these absolute statements and I've been in business my whole life and there is no absolute 100% people are behind me. I

feel positive. It's an area I'm passionate about. None of that may matter. You may still lose all that money. So, don't don't go into this 300 grand with all your positivity. If you want to put 125 in it, do it and then I'd put the rest of it over in with a Smart Investor Pro and some good mutual funds and to where it's protected from this business risk and the gambling risk and separate these things.

>> Yeah, I'm I've just I'm going to call it like I heard it. It almost sounded like this business for you was some sort of retaliatory thing against him to kind of prove that you're doing your thing over here. And my thing I would just say draw a line in the sand and set some boundaries about how long you're going to endure this into what point before you go and do the things that you need to do and make that separation so that he can get the help that he needs because allowing this to persist doesn't feel like the answer.

It It feels like it's breeding resentment from you. >> Oh, for sure.

>> Absolutely.

>> [music]

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Nicole is in Atlanta. Hi, Nicole. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you?

>> Good. What's up?

>> Um so, me and my husband live in an apartment, and we're trying to decide if we should move to a bigger space because we do have two three kids. So, two are 5-year-old twins, and then a 2-year-old

baby girl. So, um last year we were able to pay off our vehicle, but we have $62,000 worth of student loan debt left. Um and we were

going to use We've been using mostly like our overage, which is about $1,100

um that we have a month to put towards our debt. And then we also pretty much use like our tax break or whenever that comes in to throw a lot at it just in and out. So, we're trying to see We want them to, you know, have a space to have a yard and like just more space. It's a little bit cramped up um with all five of us here.

So, we were just wondering if we should stay or if we should kind of go.

>> What are you guys earning between the two of you right now? >> Um gross would be 103,000.

>> Okay. The hard part with this is what you said. If you were to move from this apartment to a house, it's going to close the gap on how much margin you have to throw at this debt, which means there's going to be a longer period of time that you're going to be in debt, which long term that's going to affect your ability to build wealth.

For that reason, I like the idea of home ownership, but I think the first step in that process needs to be eliminating the debt so that you can actually go whole whole heartedly into the home buying process and actually do it the right way so that it's a blessing for you. >> You're not even talking about home ownership. You're talking about renting a nicer place, aren't you?

>> Yeah, yeah. We were actually like looking to our rent is 2,200. And so we were wanting to rent like thinking about 2,500 but that doesn't include like gas and utility. I'm sorry, you know >> Understood.

>> Yeah, so we just don't know if that's going to be leaving us with 400 instead of 1,000. >> How much How much debt have you paid off so far?

>> Uh 36,000 with the vehicle.

>> And how long did that take?

>> Uh that took us 2 years.

>> Okay. Making $130,000.

>> Uh $103,000 a year.

>> $103,000. Yeah. So you guys suck at this so far, Nicole.

>> We suck? >> Yeah. $18,000 making 100 grand per year

is not enough debt reduction.

You guys are >> Yeah. >> still out. You're still going out to eat. You're still going on vacation.

You're still spending money. You're still not on a tight budget. And and so you made a little progress but you should have made a lot more progress. If you told me you paid off 36,000 in 6 months, see then I can take that number and go, "Oh, wait a minute. You could clear up the rest of this in a year if you suck it up and get it done." But at the rate you're going it's going to take you 10 years.

>> Yeah. >> That ain't cool. >> That's true. >> That ain't cool. >> Right. That's how we feel. >> Yeah. We got to We got to not get stuck in that. And if you feel like you're never going to get out, then you just say, "Well, the heck with it. I'll just take a big old rent and go ahead and enjoy my life now and get the kids a yard." And you know, you give up You're giving up is what you're doing because you're not making fast enough progress.

And so I'm going to put you on the beans and rice plan if I'm you.

I'm going to sit down with my husband and go, "Look, we did a little bit here and we didn't do a bad thing but we really weren't It wasn't like we were spectacular. We kind of got the flu here

and we need to really light this thing up instead of putting $1,500 a month on it. We need to take extra jobs. We need to sell stuff. We need to not go out to eat. We need to tight tight tight tight tighten down this budget. Not go the other way. And let's get this thing to 3,000 or 4,000 dollars a month going at the 6,000 60,000 that's left. And then we can get out in about 14 or 15 months.

Then we talk about building emergency fund. And then we talk about buying a house.

Not renting one. >> Yeah, I I >> But what you're talking about is a five or a six-year plan and you won't even make it. >> I agree. I I If you can have these kids

they're young right now, right? They're five years old, three years old.

Now's the time that they can be squished and they don't know the difference. You know the difference, but they don't know the difference. And I for one would try to stay in that position as long as possible and save as much money as possible so that you can pay off this debt. >> if they're squished and their life is miserable for one year, >> They'll be fine. >> that's better than them being not squished and having a mediocre to average life for the rest of their life.

>> You want to know what though? I I think back a lot of times on the house that I grew up in and I think back on the house that my parents grew up in with six kids. >> Yeah, nobody told us we were >> Nobody told us we were squished.

>> No. >> We were, but nobody told us we were. It was a thousand square foot brick ranch.

Hello. And so, I mean, we went out in the backyard and played. They'd say go play in the traffic. >> had go outside. You did have to go out.

Yeah, just [laughter] play outside all the time. >> You tell your kids to go play in the traffic. You don't tell your kids >> I don't tell them to play in traffic. I just tell [laughter] them to >> My mother would say that all the time.

Go play in the traffic. Get out of my Get out from under my feet. >> [laughter] >> Yes. >> That's what caused me to be the way I am. Dustin is in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

Hey, Dustin, what's up?

>> Hi. Um so, I'll get right into it. Uh my dad incurred about $30,000 in debt. Uh he has no retirement. His only income is social security. Uh he now has dementia and my brother and I are left uh kind of trying to manage this for him.

Um he's currently being sued on one credit card for 8,000 and he owes 13,000

on another credit card.

And I guess my question is should we try and settle this with them and my brother and I would have >> No. No assets.

>> Well, how would he settle it?

>> I essentially my brother and I would have to help him out in that >> Why? Why would you do that? Just tell them tell the credit card company to bite me. >> He has no money. He has nothing to give.

>> They can't get anything. He doesn't have anything, right?

>> Uh yeah, he has nothing. It's only social security and I don't believe they can touch that. >> touch that. Does he own a home?

>> No. >> No. He does not have any money in his bank account except the social security.

>> Yeah, it would it would just be for me and my brother to have one less thing to uh to have to deal with. >> I wouldn't deal with it at all. I got one less thing. I'm just going to show them the smallest finger on my left hand and say that's all you get. >> Nothing. >> Are they calling you?

>> Uh no. No.

>> I'd just tell them to you know, tell them jump in a creek. You shouldn't have loan loan money to a guy who had dementia and no money.

>> Okay. And should I uh should I offer to have him sign a stipulated judgment to avoid additional attorney fees or just >> Who cares? They're not going to get any of it. What I would do is call them up and say if you want to talk to him, call them up and just say this. Say, I want you make a note in the file. He has advanced dementia and zero assets.

We're not going to have any conversations with you. You might as well write this off cuz you're not getting a dime.

>> Okay. >> And I just real simple. I mean, let's pretend he had passed away.

Okay? I just send them a copy of the death certificate as a courtesy to let them know and and let them know that there's not a there's no estate. And then then after that I'm not having any more discussions with these people. They're morons.

>> Yeah, none of this can pass to you if you're worried about that.

>> Uh no, yeah, I'm I'm not worried about that. I mean, it's his debt and I Yeah, I'm not I'm not responsible for that.

So. >> It's just sad and it's sad it's one of those part It's a sad uh sub-chapter, sub-paragraph in this

overall sad story that you're dealing with, but what I would do is just say I'm not going to worry about it at all.

And if you want to have one conversation just as a courtesy, you could, but I'm not going to have lengthy conversations. I'm not going to have multiple conversations and I'm not going to give him a dime.

There's no point in it. They shouldn't have loaned him the money.

>> Yeah. I agree. >> And it's it's just sad. I'm sorry for you having to face that and um you know, I've run into situations like that in my life, Dustin. How old are you?

>> Uh 44. >> Yeah, I've run into situations like that and what I do is I say, "Okay,

I got to help my dad out." >> [sighs] >> Uh in your case, this is what you're saying. "I got to help my dad out and this is a sad situation. And so, what I'm going to get from this is a lesson to never end up like this.

>> Right. >> I'm going to do whatever it takes in my life to not end up this way.

It's like, you know, I I I was working for a guy one time. He goes, "I might be working in McDonald's at my retirement, but it'll be the one I own in St.

Thomas." >> Come on now. >> So, I'm going to learn a lesson from those old people standing there working in McDonald's cuz they don't have any money. I don't want to be one of them.

>> That's right. >> And so, you look at this and you go, "He's got no assets. He's got dementia and the only positive thing in his life is he's got two sons that love him and are going to care for him." Other than that, this guy's a pauper, we would use old language, but it's very sad. And so, take it as a lesson to go, "I'm never You know, and then you teach your kids.

Your grandpa ended up that way.

We're shifting it. >> I know that's right. >> So, take a lesson from it, at least. At least get that out of it. But, no, I wouldn't give those guys any money. Not a dime.

>> [music]

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>> Well, we love debt-free screams. We love them in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on our debt-free stage. We super love them when it's one of our Ramsey team members. TJ is with us here with his wife Alice. Uh, he's a project manager on the every dollar team. Been with us about a year and uh they get to come in here and do their debt-free scream.

Welcome, guys. >> Thank you. >> Good to have you. How nerve-wracking is this?

>> It's we're here.

>> [laughter] >> And it's finally real.

>> I love it. How much have you paid off?

>> $165,000.

>> I love it. How long did that take?

>> 15 months. >> Awesome. >> Okay, and you've been here about a year, so you started on it before. How long y'all been married? >> 1 year and 8 months.

>> Oh, wow. So, moving here, getting married, starting the debt-free journey, all in the last 2 years. >> Yep. >> Yes. >> Wow. Where'd you move from?

>> Central Illinois, but we're originally from the Chicago land. >> Okay. All right. So, you got married and did you come to Nashville to take the Ramsey job?

>> Yep. >> Okay. The project manager at every dollar. Well, that's awesome.

So, you people out there that are using every dollar to get out of debt, it's all TJ's fault. >> [laughter] >> All the things that are awesome about it, it's all TJ's fault. He's one of the many uh talented folks we got on that team. Really really working on this.

>> Yeah, it was 107 in student loans and then 58 in new cars. This was before

learning about Ramsey. >> All right. Got you. Okay. Very cool.

How's it feel to be free?

>> Liberating. >> [laughter] >> Liberating, peaceful. It's the best sleep we've ever got Oh, I've gotten in the past 2 years was uh October 30th when we made our final payment. >> Mhm.

>> Uh filled in the rest of that I saw the thermometer that we had up there. Uh filling that in, calling those that supported us all along the way and just being able to cheer it. >> So, how did the order of events go about learning about >> Yeah.

>> So, we got the Total Money Makeover as a

wedding gift. >> Okay. >> It was not on our registry. We were not >> [laughter] >> familiar. >> It seldom is.

>> So, TJ read the book about three times and then he started on this journey to try to coerce me into reading it. Um he

was saying that it's Bible-based, which really resonated with me. And then he was like, "Dave's really funny." Which I was like, "Hmm, let me see for myself."

And >> [laughter] >> I loved it. We had a conversation where

we had combined our finances after getting married and realized that we had $2,800 of minimum payments and we didn't

feel like we were able to really live, even though we had two pretty good incomes.

>> Very cool. What do you do? >> I'm a nurse. >> Awesome.

Very cool. Good. Yeah, that is two good incomes. Excellent.

Well done, y'all. >> Yeah. >> Okay, so you're you get married, you get the book, and you get on the same page, and then how does he end up with this job? That's weird.

>> Well, it all came down to we were Dave-ish uh around Thanksgiving. I got to talk to my Uncle Matt and Aunt Gina, who were the ones that gifted us Total Money Makeover. And we're like, "We're doing it. We're doing it." And they were like, "Are you really doing it?" >> Ooh.

>> And we were like, "Well, we have 20,000 in savings while we're trying to pay down the debts. We, you know, we paid for our uh wedding and anything that was a gift, we just threw at debt." And I'm like, "That felt good. Let's keep going." And they were like, "Hey, check out their website for additional resources." And I was like, "Okay, cool." So, I started looking around. I saw there was a careers page.

I'm like, "All right, let's see what this is all about." Saw some jobs.

>> [laughter] >> Previous role I applied for hundreds of jobs and then I eventually got my one. I was like, "All right, Lord, if you open up the open up the doors for me, I'm going to continue to walk through them." And however, that was a 12 steps to get here. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Hiring process.

>> Yeah. >> Uh but, you know, it really felt like God called me here. Uh able to serve, be able to be here and help spread hope to other the >> It's really awesome.

>> We did. >> We did. We bought a king-size bed.

>> Yeah. >> And adjustable bases. Best sleep of my life. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I love that. That's exactly right.

>> I thought he was sleeping better because he got out of bed. >> too, but they got a new mattress. >> Because he got a new mattress is what it was. That's great. >> That's excellent. >> Very cool. All right. So, what advice do you have? What do you tell people when they say, "How did you do that? How do you pay off 165,000

newly married in 15 months?" That's over $10,000 a month.

>> Yeah. Uh God's blessings for sure. Um everything kind of had to come right together. We wrote down uh October of uh

2025 and I when I first when we were writing that I'm like, "Uh everything is going to have to come up right in order for this to happen." And God's blessings allowed us to be there. Uh new opportunity, she was travel nursing.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Good money, which is where a lot of all of that came from. >> Yeah, that's good money.

>> And uh it took a lot of sacrifice. I mean, I moved I had to move down here and I was here for about a month and a half before she got to come down after I wrapped up my time. >> sacrifice. >> So, she was doing some roles that were about an hour and a half away.

So, a lot long commute. And uh I appreciate all the sacrifices that we were able to make, both of us taking up multiple jobs to be able to get there. Uh and just want to be an inspiration to others.

>> So, uh working here can be a mixed blessing because everybody's like everybody's doing this. You know, it's like the positive peer pressure, but it's also pressure.

>> Mhm. >> I mean, was it helpful to have your team you know, all up in your business or uh you know, your buddies cheering you on or uh was was that a back I mean, they're all standing out there. You better be nice, but um I mean, was is it helpful to be in this kind of environment when you're doing it or not? It can I think it could work against you. >> Yeah. Um at least I can tell my side.

It's been extremely It's a support system. Um if we didn't believe in it, then yes, I I think it'd be a whole lot of different pressure that we're like, "Oh, I don't really want to do it." But we believed in it. We knew that it was going to be good for us, changing our family tree, going through Financial Peace University, really seeing the whole scope of where your life can change, and being able to use every dollar to keep us on track and on budget.

>> Um a lot of it was that.

>> It was a blessing for us because as far as our friends and family, it's still kind of a mixed bag as far as, you know, their thoughts on our journey. So, we committed to it. It was amazing for T.J. to be working in an environment where we got that support.

Um so, it ultimately was such a blessing. >> Yeah. Cool. Very cool.

>> Any setbacks on the way?

>> Just right after we got out of it.

Um I had to uh We had some I had some health stuff that came up. So, we got debt-free, and then we were able to cash flow 10K in medical expenses and >> Wow. >> Ooh. >> Now, we're tackling on taxes, but we're able to cash flow it all. Um car repairs and all that we're able to cash flow it as we went. So.

Uh >> Well, it's about time to celebrate with some of it. Oh my gosh. >> [laughter] >> That's a G. Indeed. >> Enough already. So, you're working on an Every Dollar you're project manager on Every Dollar.

The journey and now the freedom has to

affect how you look at all those projects.

>> Yeah. Um just >> I mean, you're not agnostic anymore.

This You're in it.

>> It's It's being able to say, "Okay, this I I'm I'm product of this. You know, I believed in it." >> Yeah. >> It makes it that much more motivating to be able to come in every single day, come in and work knowing that I made a difference not only for my myself, but for everyone outside of these walls, which I know we preach very dearly here.

>> Mhm. >> Um it's truly inspiring. It's just so nice to be a part of it, something that you believe in, and you're able to say, "I'm I'm affecting this. I'm changing this. I'm trying to make this better. I'm trying to make it easier to work the Ramsey plan." >> Yeah. >> And that's all the motivation you need.

>> Amen. Amen. I'm proud of y'all.

>> Yeah, excellent job. >> and the team's out here gathered, and none of them are working. They're all here to cheer you on. [laughter] And this is great. I'm glad they're here to cheer you on. It's very very cool. Congratulations you two. >> Thank you. >> Very well done. All right, we don't ask when our team members are on, we don't ask their household income because all their friends are standing around and that's not fair. But they did pay off $165,000

in 15 months. Count it down. Let's hear

a debt-free scream.

>> 3 2 1 >> WE'RE DEBT-FREE! >> [screaming]

[applause] >> THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. >> Love it. >> Man.

You know, I can't imagine >> [applause] >> coming to work in a place like this right after I got married. The place I went to work right after I got married was bad.

>> [laughter] >> I mean, lucky for them it's great cuz now you're submerged by everything you need to get off on the right foot financially. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's like you don't have a choice around here. >> Yeah.

>> I mean, well, you're on stage this morning staff meeting doing walk the talk. >> Oh, yeah. >> We have a whole system here where we're not being hypocrites. The people that work here need to be doing the stuff we teach, you know?

Hello. >> 100% 100% >> The non-hypocrite system. Walk the talk, [laughter] right? >> On your honor.

>> Yeah, and these guys they they did it.

I'm so proud of them. $165,000

>> They were smoking it. 15 months.

>> Man, let's get it done. Get her done.

>> Logan's in Indiana. Hey Logan, what's up?

I meant to try again. Hey Logan, what's up?

>> Hey sir, how are you doing? Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure, how can I help?

>> Well, I'm trying to get some advice on my wife and I going into um debt to

start a cattle operation.

>> Mhm. Okay. All right. How long you've been listening to this show, Logan?

>> Uh about 6 months or so.

>> Okay. And so you know that about 95% of what we talk about is telling people to not go in debt and and to how to get out of debt, right?

>> Yeah, it is. I I feel like I've heard a little bit of information with businesses that sometimes like buying a business or something that can depend on the profit that it brings and how quickly it can be paid off. So, I wanted to >> Yeah. >> see if that would work in this case.

>> No, that would be like buying it from an owner and the owner gets the prop The former owner gets the profit until not borrowing $150,000 to buy cows from the bank. That's different. Um >> Okay. >> So, I don't borrow money, Logan. And I've done that for 40 years.

And I run a business and I've grown the business with the profits in the business without borrowing money to do it. And because the simple fact is this, business has risk.

When you borrow money to start a business or run a business, you increase the risk a hundredfold.

A lot more chance that you're going to go bankrupt. And so, um what do What's your household income, sir?

>> About 120 to 130,000 currently depending on overtime. >> Good for you. So, if you took out a $150,000 loan, how fast could you pay it back?

>> Um running the numbers that we ran given the market now, you know, and obviously as long as it doesn't just completely tank out, within about 2 years um to

three at the most by your third your third third round of calves um everything should be completely paid off and it would be profit after that minus operational costs. >> So, what would be wrong with starting a little bit smaller and taking 4 years and making the thing cash flow which way to the exact same position?

Buy buy buy a third of what you're talking about buying with cash.

>> Okay. >> And make that third buy the next third

and buy the next third. You don't need any money out of this cattle operation.

You could pour every single dollar of profit into growing it. Agreed?

>> Correct. Yeah, that would be the plan. >> Because you have a good income at home already. And so um I think you would it's what we call in business organically growing the business with your cash your own cash.

And that's what we've done here.

Although we weren't able to do it as fast as you're going to be able to do it. And that's assuming cattle prices don't do what they have done in the past, which is they're all over the freaking place as you know.

I'm sure you've looked at the trend lines on that. It's scary.

So, there's times the market has tanked.

And uh it's an agricultural product. And so it's a it's a lot more unpredictable than some other types of businesses.

So, you've got to be very very careful.

But if I were in your shoes, I would get I would I would scratch the itch. But I would save up 50 75,000 dollars in cash by living on nothing. And I'd dump every bit of that in there. And then I'd take every dime of profit and use it to grow the business. And I think you'll be there 1 year later than you would have been there if you borrowed the money and everything went perfect, which by the way nothing ever goes perfect.

>> That is That is That's true.

>> Yeah. I mean, you get the cows get sick.

There's all kinds of problems. There's you know, the Brazilians decide they're going to come in and you know, upset the beef market. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how all this works, but there's always something, right?

>> Correct. >> So, um yeah, it it I I would rather you do that and and be tired and um stretched on your cash and then no one's going to take it away from you. You're not going to lose everything because you rolled the dice on this particular horse race.

I just crossed metaphors, but yeah.

>> That's all right.

That No, that that makes sense. Um a a follow-up to that would be is if you were to cash flow this, what's your opinion on um you know, like leasing pasture and stuff? Do you look at that as debt or is that looked at a little bit different? Like >> No, that's just over here. That's like That's just like lease That's like leasing a building to run your business in. Instead Instead of buying the building.

That's There's no problem. I would rent the pasture for sure.

>> Okay. >> Cuz Now we've got two businesses. If you If you buy the pasture, you've got two businesses. You've got the real estate business and the farming business.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, it's like It's like me. I've got this building here that's 650,000 square feet. Like you know, 600,000 600 million dollar property, right? So, I've got this piece of real estate. I'm in the real estate business. And I've got a business that's inside the real estate.

But I've got two things going on here.

Very substantial things.

Ramsey and a big old piece of real estate. Big campus here, right? I mean, I'm in the office building business, period. No No matter how you cut it. And and you can set You can mix those two together and act like, "Well, they're all one thing." No, they're really not. It's I got a big old office building. I could have leased it. There's six of them right down the road down here. I could have leased another one and not put you know, not put not put half a billion dollars into this thing, right?

So, that that's That's the thing. So, just you no need to get in the real estate business. I just lease it.

If you're going to start a restaurant, for God's sake, don't buy the building.

>> Oh gosh, please no.

>> Just just rent the building. You get started, you know? You start a daycare, rent the building. And and just don't don't get in the real estate business until you've been in business a long time and you've got a predictable environment. But you don't have that there until then, so wow.

>> Cool. I think we won that one.

>> Yeah, I think I think he's going to take your advice. >> I think he's going to do it. >> I believe in him. >> I like it. I like Logan. All right, that's kind of nice. I'm I like getting one occasionally. [laughter] Leona's in Cincinnati. Hi Leona, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hi Jade. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um so, I have a quick question. So, my

husband and I, we have a 1-year-old and we recently moved, well, not recently, last year. We had switched from our apartment cuz of noisy neighbors and went to a townhome.

Um the townhome, when we moved in there, it was not great and we sent several

emails to the leasing office about the issues that we were having and, you know, mold and spiders everywhere and centipedes and all these things happening in there. Um

we told them that we are not happy with the townhome and they said they'll fix things. Months went by, they weren't fixing anything. So, we decided to just break our lease because I have legal shield through my job and I reached out to an attorney through there and they said, "Well, they failed to provide livable living conditions. I have pictures of everything.

And you don't owe anything. So, you can break your lease and you'll be fine." >> Oh [laughter] boy.

That was not good advice.

>> Oh.

Yeah, you got what you paid for with that lawyer. >> Did you send them Did you send I mean, did you get any Did you send them anything in writing? Did you do any Did you do your due diligence other than just making a phone call?

>> Oh, no. So, we definitely sent pictures.

Uh you mean to the leasing office or to the LegalShield? >> Uh both. Did you send them Did you let them know that you were seeking legal legal counsel on behalf Like did you go through the due diligence of making sure that they understand what's going on?

>> Yeah, so I called the leasing office. My husband went up there cuz they weren't responding to my emails. My husband went up there up there.

Um he talked to them. They said, "Okay, we'll take care of things." Um a couple months went by nothing was happening.

The most they did was change the tray in the dishwasher. >> Okay, so stop. I was just going to I was just going to stop. I mean, it's You just moved out when you got mad cuz you called LegalShield and they said uh you could.

>> Yeah, well, we weren't we weren't planning to break our lease cuz we did that before to move to where we are now and that was not fun. So, we said we're not going to break the lease unless we get some kind of advice that we can.

So, after we sit called the head office,

the property management company or whoever, uh we talked to the district manager. They said, "Okay, definitely send us emails and everything, all the pictures that you've been reaching out to them about and everything." Did that, no response. Called again, left the voice message, not getting any response.

So, the LegalShield attorney said um they sent them a letter to the leasing office and the property management company and saying that they failed to provide whatever suitable living conditions for us and our child.

So, we don't owe them anything.

So, because of that, we decided to just break our lease because they weren't fixing anything. We asked them multiple times, "Are you going to send anybody >> this is on LegalShield. LegalShield needs to defend you for free.

>> Mhm. Yeah, they told they told me >> You're going to get You're going to get sued, I can promise you.

I promise you 100% this landlord's coming after you. You don't have the option of just walking away because I I some bugs. Even if you send them pictures and even if they don't answer you, even if they're jerks, even if they have horrible service, it's not how it works.

I mean, so now LegalShields bit this off, they need to pick it up and close the deal. And and they're not going to be able to. This is going to be horrible for you.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

Nicole is in Detroit. Hi Nicole, how are you? >> Hi Dave, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Um so I was calling.

Um so basically, my husband has refused

to like give me financial visibility into his life. Um he has put his foot down, like, you

know, literally, like, "No, you cannot see anything that I have going on financially. I can tell you about it." >> Ooh. >> Um but you you can't know anything

that's going on. Um and the reason why it happened is we were in a position to buy a home, and the the housing counselor and the lender that we were working with asked about our finances, and I found myself saying, "Well, I don't I don't know. Uh let me hold on. Let me hold on. Let me ask my husband." >> Mhm. >> And then I after our call was done, I told my husband, I said, "You know, I shouldn't have to say hold on to anyone, let me ask my husband.

>> Right. >> know what's going on, you know, in that

part of your life. It's like we're roommates. It's like you you're over here all the time. >> that go? He said He he said I'm a grown man.

I do not have to show you anything financially in my life. I said but you're a deacon. You're a deacon and

you're my husband. I said we're supposed to be one. That you saying that makes us not be one. >> And what did he say? >> me showing you my money had nothing to do with us being one. My husband is a deacon. >> Yeah, but this is this is >> So where are we now?

>> So I moved out.

We we were in a rental.

When I when we came together 8 years ago it was it was his house. So I moved in with him. We've been there for 8 years.

We were trying to work on getting our own house and because all this I mean it it's so bad they it it's so bad >> But what else is going on? Cuz this was explosive. So what else is going on? I

have a feeling that it wasn't This is not been the only issue is what I'm gathering.

>> Yeah, no. So he has a 21 year old son

and his son is very disrespectful.

He basically it's basically like he runs the house. And if I try to say anything to him about his son, what his son does, if I try to tell him stuff that goes on when he's not around, he never believes me.

>> Uh-huh. Well I >> So it's just it's it's just bubbling over. >> Yeah. >> How can we help you today, hon?

>> So I just want to know So we've separated. He has filed divorce

papers, but I haven't signed them yet.

I'm trying to talk to him, but he is not talkable.

>> Got you. >> That's even a word. That's not a word.

>> Have you suggested some sort of counsel?

Have you suggested hey, this is really bad. We need to get in counseling. What did he say? >> Yes. I said that and he said no because

you're that person is not going to tell me that I have to allow you to see my money. >> See, here's the thing. And I'm just going to go ahead and say this. This is based off of just what you've told me, so take it with a grain of salt.

This it Based on what you're saying, there's something going on he doesn't want you to see. And maybe it does have to do with his uh stature or how people view him. He doesn't want you to have any parts of what he's doing with his money. Maybe that's a blessing. He's the one that's filed for divorce. Maybe this is you dodging a bullet. I don't know. I don't know, but this sounds like somebody who doesn't It sounds like somebody who's got extremely high pride that they cannot be told nor learn anything about

a better way to exist in a relationship.

That's what you've told me. >> Yeah. They um The and the the weird thing is is that uh all of his finances are now going to get exposed. >> In the divorce, [laughter] right.

>> Cuz the the judge is not going to uh go along with his plan. >> [laughter] >> It's very ironic. >> 100% of his finances have to be exposed

or he's going to have to lie to the court, which will get him put in jail.

So, uh you don't lie to the court, not even divorce court. So, you know, he has to come He has to show all the stuff to the lawyers and it has

to all come before the judge and he's going to find out that half of it's yours. That's going to be very weird for him.

>> Yeah. Well, we've only been married 2 years. >> Yeah, that doesn't matter.

>> Oh, I thought it was eight. So, you've been in the house for six years.

>> together >> together 8 years, married 2.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Uh what are you concerned about? Are you concerned that there's debt that your name might be on?

That you don't know about?

>> so before we separated, um I had to find

out the hard way that he had a garnishment on my on my account.

And so, I had to ask him several times to get it taken care of. Um he got them to remove it and put it on his bank account, but he was not happy about it.

>> Mhm. >> And you know, so I was just like for you to be so angry with me and telling me no, you won't allow me to see you financially, but you got a garnishment on my on my account. How is that fair? >> There's probably some shame going on that you don't know about. There's probably a lot here going on that you don't know about. And it's Now granted,

I don't know what parts you've contributed to whatever mess is here.

I'm sure there's is two, you know, two sides to everything. >> Okay. It's been a year.

>> but my guess is there's some things going on that might be causing him some shame. Or, you know, it might might be just the way he views those gender roles. That you guys never aligned on that. Money is the man's thing and it's not Who knows?

But there it's never going to come out cuz he won't go to counseling with you. >> Yeah, it's going to come out in the divorce. You're going to find out everything about his money in the divorce. Um which is the irony of him filing for divorce because you wanted to find out what was going on with the money.

So it's kind of ironic. And he just He's just He's just dumb enough he doesn't know that. So this is going to be a real surprise to him. It's going to be this awesome wake-up call for him.

>> [snorts] >> Uh cuz the judge doesn't really care about The judge doesn't really care about his theories. He's just going to tell him what to do. And if you don't do it, you're in contempt of court. And it's really nasty.

You don't want You don't want to screw around with the judge. So um this is this is where he's going.

What can I say to him to do to make him want to do this? And the answer is nothing. There's not anything you can say to him. I wish there was one phrase, one way of doing it, but this is a very entrenched

position that he has taken to the point he's willing to give up his marriage over this. And so there's not a single

phrase if he was coming to the table and saying, "Hey, I want to work on this. Let's go to counseling." I could give you some things to say to do all that, but but in this situation you know, you're just going to be you know, you're just throwing water against the wall. There's nothing happening here. So, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you chose poorly in a husband. This guy this guy's

bad news. >> Too bad. Yeah. >> You wouldn't no one listening that has a daughter would want their daughter to marry this guy.

Not a person out there.

Regardless of how much Nicole contributed or whatever else is going on in the house, all that kind of thing, but this [snorts] is a guy that

is is not in a good place and he's not helpful and he's not a good husband. And >> It's [clears throat] sad. >> You're you know, there's not a single phrase that's going to make him not be a jerk. I don't have that not be a jerk phrase.

I don't have one of those. And I'm sorry. I wish it was. I wish there was something we could just do.

But unless he just decides that he wants to be together unified, work together in full visibility and in order to save his marriage and start with a marriage counselor, then you're you're not going to make it, kiddo. I'm sorry. I wish you were.

>> [music]

>> Hey good folks, Dr. John Delony here.

Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So, guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers.

That's ramseysolutions.com/careers.

>> [music]

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Might not be in all states.

>> All right, today's question comes from Steve in West Virginia. He says, "I'm 66

years old and have been retired for 5 years. I have 500,000 in retirement funds, but I have two debts, 40,000 in credit card debt and 150,000 on my mortgage. I have social security and pension income of 6,000 per month.

Should I pay off my debt to reduce my withdrawal each month from my 401k.

Um I wish I had a little bit more information, but off the top I would say yes because to have your mortgage paid

for, that's money that you're not going to have uh to take a draw on. And my guess, I don't know what your expenses are every month, but my guess is you probably are living okay on the $6,000 per month if you don't have a single debt in the world.

>> Now, make sure you >> Yeah, make sure you cut up the stupid credit cards and get on a budget so you don't spend more than you make again.

>> Yeah, that's really what you need to do.

>> Yeah, this credit card debt is not the problem, it's the symptom of you overspending.

>> Yeah, and if it's it's if it's old debt and you're like, "Hey, I'm not I'm not on that lifestyle anymore. I just still have it laying around." Absolutely paid off, but if it's current debt, then Dave is absolutely right about that.

>> Mike's in Virginia Beach. Hey Mike, how are you? >> Good. How you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um my wife and her siblings inherited some money from their dad when he passed away several years back, and one of the siblings is the executor, and they said they're not going to tell one of the other siblings about it because they don't feel that they're financially responsible, and they're just going to hold their money back from them. >> Oh. >> And I say that's not uh that ain't their call.

>> You're exactly right.

>> Okay. Well, I'm smarter than I look sometimes. >> The executor [laughter] of the literal reason they're called an executor is they're to execute.

>> Right. >> They're execute the what what the will said. It didn't It didn't say you're a trust officer and you get to decide what's best, it said you execute what the will says. That's your only option.

Even if you don't like it, even if you don't agree with it. You have one option when you're the executor, and that's to execute what the will says. Otherwise, the people on the other side of it are going to sue your butt, and they're going to win because you violated your fiduciary responsibility.

>> What's your wife think?

>> Uh she agrees with me.

>> Okay. >> You guys got your part, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. I would tell the executor that they're being stupid and they're going to get sued. >> Well, I kind of did that. >> Yeah, well then that's you've done your job and leave it alone. It's not your problem anymore. >> How much is it?

>> Uh you know, I think it's like eight or ten thousand dollars each. >> Oh, it's not enough to mess with. But here's the thing, the person finds out that they were not given the money they're supposed to be given, the person that is the executor is in deep kimchi legally. >> Well, that's that's what I kind of figured.

>> Yeah, for sure. For sure, but there's nothing you can do about it. I mean, it's just These are people doing whatever they want to do and that's what people do all the time. That's the problem.

you need to pick someone who's going to have the integrity to execute your will.

>> Yeah. And >> What is it you will to happen?

>> That's right. >> That's what that means. >> They need to be Switzerland. >> Yeah. >> Did you say deep kimchi?

>> I just did. >> Okay. Just checking. >> Just [laughter] make sure.

Things come up in the Rolodex. Nora is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Nora. What's up? >> Hi, Dave and Jade. It's exciting to talk to you today. I have an exciting question for you. I want to know should

we buy a new car with cash or pay off our house? >> Ooh, my favorite type of question. Tell us more. >> Okay, so we are in baby steps four, five, and six. We've been on the Ramsey plan for a solid like seven years. We have $60,000 saved for the vehicle in a high-yield savings account. But then when we are doing our annual budget meeting, we were also looking at our brokerage account, which is sitting at $35,000.

>> Okay. >> Our mortgage is approximately $83,000

left. >> Okay. >> So if we liquidate that brokerage account, we could pay off the home and be done. >> And still have an emergency fund?

>> Yeah, we do have $10,000 set aside for an emergency fund beyond those two amounts. >> That's a bit small. >> Is Yeah, is that what it would be if the house were gone?

Yeah, well we use like the brokerage account as like a backup emergency fund. >> have that anymore in this scenario.

>> We have We have $10,000 in our bank account right now as a >> I know. But if you use the brokerage account and you use the 60,000 from the car and you pay off the house, you're down to $10,000, which isn't much.

>> Well, we want to spend approximately 50,000 on a car.

>> No, are you listening to >> No, no, no. He's saying He's saying if you pay the house off that's >> you pay the house off, you got nothing but 10 grand left.

Right? >> We also Well, we also have a $10,000 savings account that is just the side emergency fund. >> Oh, so you have $20,000.

>> So, we would have Yeah, we would have 20. >> If the house is paid off. Okay, that's what I didn't understand. All right. Are you Are you Is your net worth over a million dollars? >> It is, sir. >> And this is a brand new car.

>> Um new to us. >> Oh, it's not a brand new car.

>> It might be a year old or >> Okay, that's not a brand new car. It either is or it isn't. Okay.

>> [laughter] >> All right. Now, um so Wow. >> I mean, how long would it take you You could do either. I don't think there's a wrong answer here. How long would it take you if you were to pay off the house? How quickly could you save back up $60,000 and buy the car you want? >> We think by probably August.

>> Oh, crap. >> I Man, I I got to be honest. I There's not a wrong answer. I'd probably pay the house off. >> answer. Don't Don't buy the car. Pay the house off and then go buy the car.

>> You would? >> I would never buy that car. >> I mean, I wouldn't buy I wouldn't buy the car. I would pay the house off, but I'm just saying, do you think she'd be dead wrong? >> Cuz in 8 months you can go get the car anyway. >> THAT'S WHAT I SAID. >> SO, get the house [laughter] paid off.

What What are your priorities here? Your priorities are get the house paid off, not buy a stupid car. Stupid cars you can get. I got a stupid car today. I don't mind getting a stupid car. Cars are fine, but they go down in value.

How's it going to go in value? Yeah.

>> But do you think that lightning would strike her down had she done the other way? >> doesn't strike you down on anything on this show, hardly.

Uh but that No, I'm I'm definitely paying the house off, 100% today.

>> do. >> I paid it off today. And then I'd save like crazy and go buy the car that you want. >> And you might even get a nicer car.

>> Parking it in the driveway of a paid for house. Hello. No question that that's the order of things that have to go down. Definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely. So, here's the thing.

And and I'm a car guy. I, you know, I I I've got owned a bunch of different vehicles here and there.

And um they all go down in value. >> Yeah. >> And so you're you know you can't put appreciating assets in the same sentence with the largest depreciating asset that we buy even if you've got a high net worth.

>> But what sent you over the edge was the fact that they owed so little on the mortgage. >> Yeah, it's simple. Yeah. I mean, if she owed $500,000 on the mortgage, then we could have a different discussion. >> Or even 100 Well, let's see. My tipping point probably would have been like 250.

>> Yeah, I mean, I just The point is is that this is very doable very quickly.

And so it doesn't matter. So, do it the right way. >> I'm with you. >> And and let your actions reflect that you've got um an understanding of how these assets work. >> Right. >> Cuz 5 years from from today

that $50,000 car is worth 15.

>> Yes, and that's going to be painful. Hopefully, you keep it for a very long time. >> from today that house will have doubled twice.

>> Yes. >> You know, so I mean, there's no question where I'm going with this. And it doesn't mean you never buy a car. I bought one today. Or literally.

>> You bought a car today? >> today, yeah. >> What did you get? >> I got the new Bronco Raptor. >> Look at you. >> I just wanted one. But I'm not I'm not mad about cars. That's not the point.

That's not the point. The point is they go down in value and they need to be a minor part of your overall life.

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out, and broke. Don't be most people.

You work way too hard to be broke and

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>> [music]

>> In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Nathan and Megan are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Hi Dave, doing well. Great to be here.

>> Good to have you. Where do y'all live?

>> We We in Woodstock, Georgia.

>> Oh, yeah, just down the road. Well, welcome to Nashville. >> Thank you. >> Good to have you guys. And how much debt have you paid off? >> We paid off $155,000

in just under 5 years.

>> Good for you. And your range of income during that time? >> Starting income was $100,000 and ending

income was $145,000.

>> Very cool. What do y'all do for a living? >> So, I work in technology. I manage a whole tech team in the convenience industry. >> Oh yeah. >> Yep. And I worked part-time in a credit department at a staffing company during that time. >> Okay, good. >> of debt was it? >> IT WAS OUR MORTGAGE.

>> [laughter] >> LOOK AT YOU WEIRD PEOPLE. >> I KNOW. >> THAT'S RIGHT. Very cool. How much is this house worth? >> About 450 now. >> Good for you guys.

>> And uh you've been putting money in your retirement all along. So, how much is in that? >> About 300. >> All right. Very good. Almost millionaires now. Look

at you guys. >> Wow. >> And uh well, how old are you two? >> I'm 28. >> And I'm 29. >> So, you guys started this in your early 20s. >> Yes. Our goal was to get it paid off before Nathan turned 30 in March.

>> And you did it.

>> Paid it off on Christmas Day 2025.

>> Wow, that's awesome. So, you must have >> Tell us the story. How do you guys be smart enough to do this at 22 years old?

>> Um well, honestly, he listened to you since he was >> Uh 12 years old. So, I grew up and we didn't we didn't have TV. So, as a teenager, I couldn't go to bed early. So, I turned on my clock radio to Dave Ramsey and I didn't quite get everything at the time of what you were saying, but I started picking up picking it up and then I mean, it really just comes from my parents instilling, "Hey, if you're going to accomplish anything, you got to work for it." So, then following your steps along the way, we did Financial Peace University right after we were married and just I mean, worked as a team together.

>> Wow, very cool. >> Yep.

>> Yes. Yeah, and they were it was really just instilling if you want anything in life, you have to work for it. So, that was what my parents gave me and then you gave me the tools to, you know, us the tools to work together and accomplish this. >> We also bought a fixer-upper that needed a lot of equity or a lot of sweat equity. >> Oh my gosh, I see the picture.

>> So, that's what it used to look like and we worked really hard on it and it's in Woodstock, which is where we wanted to grow up. Wanted the kids to grow up and

uh >> It didn't even look like the same house. Yeah. >> So, that's where we live now. >> was the dream. Uh just putting putting our hard work into it and not just expecting things to come to us and working for what we wanted. >> Looks like it started with a chainsaw.

>> Yeah, that's right. >> Wow. >> of poison ivy. >> yeah. >> So, [laughter] the moment you bought it, you knew you were going to pay it off fast. Like you already >> Yes. That was the whole idea. >> Yes, definitely. We wanted to attack it, you know. >> So, Megan, I mean, when you're dating a guy that at 12 years old is listening to a financial show [laughter] on the talk or on talk radio before he goes to bed, you might be dating a nerd.

>> I know. I I learned this a lot from him

and then he got me on to you, too. Um and I truly he is a little bit of a nerd. >> So, it sounds it sounds [laughter] like it sounds like he was an attractive nerd. >> He was. Tall, dark, and handsome. I I was very, you know, it the financial

yes. >> [laughter] >> So, and I truly I mean, once I learned it, too, once we get financial peace, I was all in as well. We were just trying to do it together and I think that's one of the keys to doing it together.

>> Well, you guys start those pictures up again on YouTube in case someone is 23 years old and thinks it's impossible to buy a house. Um you could buy that house. Looks like a jungle. Put it back up there. Looks like a dadgum jungle.

I mean, that's the Yeah.

>> And you said it's worth 400 now?

>> 450 now and and >> Woodstock sweet. That's a great area.

>> They've always said it's important to dream together. So, I was actually took us 2 years to convince this lady who was vacant to sell us the home and we would drive by and she would get annoyed at me and I go that's our home. See our home?

And we we didn't even have it under contract yet, but >> Like every time we would drive by it.

>> And you know, following the principles of going, "Hey, we wanted it to we wanted a 15-year mortgage, not more than 20% of our take-home pay." >> How did you get her to to sell it?

>> Uh well, honestly, I was I was her friend for two years. She didn't know anyone else and I I honestly didn't think we were going to get it most of the time, but I said I just told her if whenever she wants to sell, she'll think of us first and one day after two years, she said, "All right, I'm ready to sell." >> Yeah, we wrote her letters, drove to her house at a different residence.

>> She wouldn't let us It was vacant. Yeah, it was vacant. >> and she lived in a different place and we drove there and got her phone number and they talked on the phone every month until [laughter] she decided to say >> Till she relented. >> We're ready, yeah. >> Wow. >> I love this guy.

>> [laughter] >> This is incredible.

>> And of course, you cash flowed all the all the upgrades. You did >> inside and the outside. >> We went down to the studs and it was, you know, I had some family help, but it was all us just working through it. We did gas, electrical, plumbing. We did the septic system and we did everything.

>> So, you pay I I just need America to hear this. You completely >> all of that and paid off the $155,000

right? >> Yeah, so you 26-year-olds that are whining, "I can't buy a house right now.

Trump is ruining the world." Oh, kiss my butt. >> These guys right here, hold [laughter] their beer. Look at this. It's unbelievable.

>> Yeah, tell them what they need to know because there's a lot of naysayers out there. Tell them what they need [clears throat] to know. >> Absolutely. Dave, you preach it.

I I actually saw the bumper sticker over there and I I love it and it was pray like everything depends on God and work like everything depends on you. And that was us going into this. I tell everyone that will listen I'm annoying. I'll get passionate about it, but I'm but you're the problem, you're the solution.

Work hard. There is I can't stand anyone that says anything different, but there's more opportunity in America than there has ever been in any country for all of history. So, work for it. It's easy to look at all the obstacles and say, "Hey, I can't do this." But, roll up your sleeves and get to work.

Work is underestimated and working together as a team, this has just helped us in our marriage. And, you know, now we have a home for our kids and we're just going to continue building the dream. >> Mic drop. You can pull that headset off and slam [laughter] it on the floor.

>> No, don't. Don't. Don't. >> Don't do that.

>> It looks expensive. >> Yes.

you know, eat at home and practical things like being content with what you have, not comparing yourself to the people around you, and also just working

side hustles. We both worked during this whole process. I was stay-at-home mom, but also trying to help provide some

income during that time. And Nathan worked really hard at his job just to work work his way up, but also worked side hustles. So, do the things that are required to get to that point, but also just enjoy your life and be content with what you have um already. >> Well, I mean, you're not even 30 years old.

You have a paid-for half-million-dollar house. You've got You're well on your way to being millionaires within the next probably 36 months or so. Boy, the way the markets are moving and everything's happening. You guys are in really, really good shape.

Congratulations. I'm very proud of you. I know your parents are proud of you.

You have changed your family tree. So, your secret is work at it and stick together. >> Yeah, and just don't take no for an answer, you know? If someone tells you no, just figure another way to to do it.

>> Yeah, there's always another way.

Another way to get it done. >> Wow. >> That's amazing. I have one more question.

When you went to buy this house, uh how did you set your expectations? Because a lot of people would have seen that before you renovated and said, "That's not That's a shack. I'm not going to spend my money on that." How How did you know to do that? >> Well, great question.

I mean, my whole life it's been uh What are people We're so wealthy as a country. People throw away great things that we can work hard and and make beautiful. So, going into it, it was horrible looking on the inside, but we were just looking and we had talked about it.

What can't we change? Let's make sure that's good. >> Mhm. >> We can work hard in everything else and change that. >> Change some paint colors, change the flooring, just kind of see past that stuff on the outside and just look at the beauty on the inside and we there were no mold issues, no um

like flooring foundation issues. Like we were very blessed. God blessed us with this home, too. Like we were put in all the right situations where we were like, this is not just coincidental. >> Awesome. >> Mhm. >> So so good, guys. >> Well done. All right, bring the kiddos up. Let's get their names and ages.

>> Oh boy, are they cute. >> [laughter] >> Cute cute cute. >> Oh, there's more of them than I thought. >> Yes. >> They just keep coming. >> Yes. We paid it off when he was 10 DAYS OLD.

>> WHAT a guy. >> Yes. Baby James. >> So, what's his name? >> This is James. He's 2 months now.

>> and the girls? >> This is Emmy. She's 5 and then Lily is

2. >> All right. >> Yes. >> You guys are your parents are heroes.

You don't even know it yet. You're too young, but someday you'll know they're the ones that changed the family tree.

Way to go. All right, Nathan and Megan, count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. 155,000 paid off in 5 years making 140. Almost baby steps millionaires already at 30 years old.

Let's hear it. >> 3 2 1 WE'RE

DEBT-FREE. >> 1 WE'RE

>> WOO WOO WOO. >> I LOVE IT. >> WOW. >> I LOVE IT. I LOVE IT.

WOW. >> are cute. >> They are. I love it. [music] >> That's amazing, Dave.

>> Wow. >> Amazing. >> Oh, it can't be done. We're all going to die. Not No, not if you're Nathan and Megan. They got it figured out, baby.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. There is a lot of noise out there when it comes to money advice and most of it just leaves people confused. That is why we built

Ask Ramsey.

It's a free tool on our website where you can ask your money question and get a clear answer based on the same proven Ramsey principles we teach on the show every day. No mixed messages, no bad advice, just clarity you can trust. Go

to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day is 1 Corinthians 15:58. Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm.

Let nothing move you.

Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Thomas Sowell said, "There are people who go through the motions and people who get the job done." It's amazing how much work you can accomplish just by hiring the latter and firing

the former.

Amen.

>> [laughter] >> Charlie is with us in Cleveland, Ohio.

Hey Charlie, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How are you, Dave? >> Just the same. What's up?

>> Yeah, so my wife and I, we have two young kids and this month we just got

debt-free. So, we paid off the mortgage.

>> Wow! Good for you. There you go.

>> Thank you. Thank you. So, the question

is so I I have a pretty good job. My wife, she stays home.

My dad, uh he is in his uh 70s. He's

still working uh partly because maybe it's years of uh poor financial decisions. So, he cannot retire because he he has

to continue to financially support uh other family members, adult family members in the family >> Why? >> overseas. Um and uh so, I'm a bit torn

uh because I I I don't have any debt. I can help, uh but I also don't want to continue to encourage bad behaviors.

Um so, I'm kind of torn apart and and seeking some advice here. >> So, so what do you make?

>> Second to thousand. >> Wow, good for you.

>> When you >> And and what is it you're being torn about? What is What is it they're at you're being asked to do or that you're doing?

>> Um I want my dad to be able to enjoy

uh retirement life. >> Yeah, but he chose to give all his money to somebody overseas.

>> Uh well, he he lives overseas, so he doesn't live here in the states. Yeah, we are immigrants. >> Okay, from which country?

>> Korea. >> Okay. All right. And so, he lives overseas and he's 70 years old and he doesn't He has the money to support himself, but he doesn't because he gives it to other family members.

>> Correct. >> Okay. All right.

>> What's the situation with the other family members? Are they ill? Are they unable to work? Can he stop doing that today or is the damage completely done?

>> Well, I I see it's a multiple, right?

So, you know, some of the family member he support them uh just to help them with their lifestyle choices and some of the family members they chose uh not to work uh

because uh you know, some of the the the poor choices they made in the past, so that makes them makes it very difficult for them to find jobs. So, basically my dad has been paying for everything, you know, for as long as I know. >> happened if he couldn't?

>> That's the big question. So, uh we don't know. Uh he he he he makes >> So, do you give your dad money?

>> Huh? >> Are you being asked to give your father money so that he can work and give them money? >> He he He makes good money, but I would I'm worried he probably doesn't have enough saved for his >> What's the equivalent? Give us an equivalent in US dollars of what he makes over there.

>> Oh, he makes $250,000.

>> And he's 70 years old. >> every month. >> Okay, so let me stop. What's the problem?

The problem is he gives all of his money away and he's going to retire with nothing and ask you to get to help him.

Is that the problem?

>> The The problem is, you know, I don't know if that's going to make the problem worse because I'm I'm I'm worried that if I give him the the the money, the money just go through other family members. >> No, I I wouldn't give him anything. I'm just asking you today you're not giving him anything, so there's not a problem other than you're observing that in the future there's getting ready to be something happening, right?

>> Correct. I'm anticipating.

>> Yeah, that that's what I'm trying to figure out. Okay. All right, so what you're anticipating is is that he's going to run out of the ability to work and not have any money cuz he's given all of his away.

>> Yes. >> Yeah, at that point you can decide how much you want to help him.

I mean, and you you'll have the money, too. You make 600,000.

Uh but we're not going to help him to the tune that he has enough to help everybody else, only to the tune that he has enough to help himself. I'm guessing

because I I I'm a redneck hillbilly and I don't know these things, but I'm guessing that part of this might be cultural.

>> It is very cultural. >> Yeah. Because I mean in uh uh um you know, in the Latino world for instance, uh it's very normal to have uh a a more of a family

obligation to support parents than we would have in uh a typical gringo culture, right? Uh my hillbilly culture, you know, you're not required to do that. Puritan ethics, so to speak, you're not required to do that, right?

But in an Asian culture where you're talking about or the Latino culture, it's more normalized to be asked to

expected to and you've grown up with it your whole life. It's integrated into your DNA that that this is how things are done. Is that correct?

>> Yeah, I That's 100% correct.

>> Yeah, and I'm thinking that may lend itself to why he's giving all of his money away as well, even though someone in my seat would look at that and go, "Why are you doing that?" But but and the answer is it's a cultural difference um to do that. Doesn't make it smart, doesn't make it dumb, it's just the explanation, right? So, mathematically,

we can all agree it's dumb, but there's a reason that he's doing it. It's not just straight-up irresponsibility.

Uh although it is intertwined into this cultural icon. So, um yeah, I I you know, I think I'd talk to him about it if he'll listen, but I bet he doesn't. And just say, "Dad, you know, you need to be aware that when you are broke, I will be helping you only with food and shelter, not with enough to uh uh for you to further on your giving of these other people. So, these other people, when you run out of gas and aren't able to work, are going to be on their own.

And they should know that now because I'm not going to be held uh to this standard. I think it's okay to go ahead and communicate that, but I don't think it's going to change what's going to occur. What's going to occur is what you expect. I think that's exactly what's going to happen. Do you, Jade? >> I do. I think he's 70 years old and he's been making this decision for a long time. And it would be a miracle if he

stopped today. >> he's old school within that culture.

>> Yes. >> And he's he's duty bound.

>> Yep. Yep. >> And going to follow through on his duty to take care of them, no matter how irresponsible or you know, uh bad decisions they've been making. He's going to do it anyway. I think, aren't you, Charlie? You agree with that?

>> I agree. I agree 100%. I tried to have a conversation 10 years ago. It really go anywhere.

So, I decided to focus on my own and then try to get that free and protect the family, you know. >> The hard part for you, Charlie, is holding going to be to hold that boundary when the time comes because you're likely going to feel guilty and all these other things, but it wasn't your you didn't make the choice, right? He did and that's the thing that you'll have to remind yourself of many, many times. >> And you'll be able to help him to a reasonable degree.

>> Absolutely. >> an unreasonable degree. And the And it's not going to be It's not going to make everybody happy.

But you great news is you make a huge income and you're going to be in a wonderful position financially. And if you want to reach over and do a you know, help somebody a little bit every month, you can do that and you won't even notice mathematically.

And so, that's the thing.

So, yeah, not accounting [clears throat] for cultural differences.

And And you have to account for that. So, it's a It's not fair to say that, but you just Folks, you need to plan to not be a burden on your children.

>> Yeah, you do. And you're You said it exactly right. You know, it might be a reason for a behavior, but it doesn't make it right or good. >> That's true. >> And the same way that Charlie was able to look at that and go, "That doesn't make sense." >> Yeah. Yeah, and he comes He comes out of that.

Comes right straight out of that. So. >> So. >> Yeah, you just got to go, "Um, no." >> Yeah, you can't >> We're we're we're not going to participate in that. It doesn't make sense. And I've learned a better way.

>> Yes. >> And that can happen. You could learn that I could learn that from his culture you could learn that from my culture. It doesn't matter. You can learn a better way. >> That's right, but the hard part is he's going to have to do that at the expense of um >> hurt feelings. >> hurt feelings and family meals and all that stuff is going to be very different when you when you draw boundaries like that people don't like it and they push up against them and all that stuff, so.

>> Count on it. >> Good luck to you. >> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 81. Good Intentions Aren’t Enough—Be Intentional With Your Money | December 23, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcxezRpLYXM) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:52:56 |

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George Camel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So take what you learn today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, and host of the Ramsey Network. Dr. John Deloney Show is

my co-host today. Open phones here at8255225.

Joan is in Florida. Hi, Joan. How are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I have a question. I would like to know

if if it's okay if I lock my husband out

of my savings account.

>> Wow. Tell me more. Sounds pretty dramatic. >> Yeah, it is. Um, we've been married for 45 years. Um, uh, probably 20ome years

ago, we got into some credit card debt.

a lot of credit card debt to the point where we had to take out a second mortgage. Um, I also borrowed against my 401k and it took probably 10 years to

claw out of that debt. And I mean, we were really good about budgeting and um, now we are we've have our home paid off.

All our cars are paid off. We had absolutely no debt until probably the

last year. Um, I picked up a second job before to help, you know, get these this debt out. Well, I've since left my second job and, um, we are just spending. I say we, it's not really we, it's him. Um, is just spending way more

than what we're bringing in >> on what? >> Um, oh, just he is just he bought a

boat, he's bought a truck to pull the boat, he's bought uh road bikes, he's

bought mountain bikes. Um, he has gone

through $40,000 in savings in the last

year buying these things. >> What is your all's net worth?

>> Um, net worth, our home is worth

probably 650,000.

I have uh 650 in my 401k. Um, I had

50,000 in savings and now I have I guess there's about eight in there now. And >> you keep using the word I. How much does he have in his 401k? Nothing.

>> Okay. So, you have a net worth of a million and a half dollars, give or take, >> correct? >> And your household income is what?

>> It's 82. Between the two of us, it's 82,000. >> And you guys are in your 60s.

>> Yes. >> Okay.

And so, what kind of midlife crisis is this dude having at 60?

>> He is. He's saying that he wants to get all these things bought before he retires and he plans on retiring next year. So he wants to enjoy his life. Um

we sort of had a significant event happen in our family. Um we had a family

member of ours who just worked himself to death and died in his 40s and um

didn't enjoy life at all. Didn't enjoy any of the money that he made. So um my husband was like, "Well, he's not going to do that. He's not going to be like that." >> It doesn't sound like the problem is the boat or the truck. It sounds like you come home from working your second job and all of a sudden there's a new boat in the driveway. Oh, I hate it. I look out there and I see it and I hate it.

>> No, no, no, no, no. Him doing crap without you guys being in agreement in it. >> That's the problem.

>> I agree. >> You didn't You didn't know this. You didn't go along with these purchases.

They just occurred.

>> No. Well, I did go along with the boat, but I didn't realize he was going to spend as much as he did on it. And I didn't realize that um he it I mean, he

just keeps putting more money into it.

For people that have been married 45 years, you all suck at communication.

>> Yeah, not good.

>> Yeah, I agree. I agree.

>> Or did he just change it on you? Have y'all been communicating well for a decade and then all of a sudden this went sideways?

>> Um, no. No, this isn't this isn't new.

Um, we've never really agreed on finances. Um, you know, I'm I'm more of

let's save, let's put it aside, and he's more of let's enjoy it. It's just gotten it's just gotten bad in the probably last year. I I appreciate your frustration and um and even your anger

and those are justified. All right. But the problem is not the savings account.

That's the symptom.

>> Okay. >> The problem is you all are not aligned.

>> I agree 100%. >> You're not unified. And so I don't think I'm hearing you say cuz you said I went along with the boat. I don't think I'm hearing you say that you're opposed to

enjoying some of the money. Uh what I do

hear you say is you don't like being surprised and um and people running

roughshod over your hard work while you're working two jobs.

>> Yes. >> And that that's fair. >> Second job. >> Yeah, that's fair. >> I gave up the second job. Yeah.

>> But to compare Eurol's life in any stretch of the imagination to the 40-year-old workaholic, he's not even on the same planet. So you can't use that as a justification to do something stupid and lie to your wife.

>> It's the dishonesty. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So you really do for the sake of I

mean if you're in your 60s and you guys are healthy, you may have to be fighting with this old man for another 30 years.

>> So you need y'all need to really work on this and get on the same stinking page

>> because >> I agree. >> Yeah. Sharon and I make more money and have more money and I don't buy any boats without Sharon knowing what the boat costs and ma and we make the decision together beforehand and if the boat involved a truck to pull the boat we would be talking about that too. We don't just make this up as we go when I come home and go see what I did honey and we've been married 43 years and I'm 65 years old.

So we're right in the same camp with you kiddo. >> Okay. >> And here's the other side of it. He's not on the phone.

>> Yes. The Gottmans are um

like kind of the goats when it comes to marriage research. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And they created this thing called the the the four horsemen of the relationship apocalypse. They can tell with 90 plus% accuracy after watching a couple communicate just for a little bit whether they're going to make it or not.

And the the relational dynamic of

contempt where one person thinks they

are better than the other person is the number one predictor that this thing's not going it's going to fall apart.

And listening to your language, this is mine. I put this in my account.

He has nothing.

I'm wondering if there's not a dynamic in your marriage that has established itself over the years of you're the good one and he's the bad one.

>> Yeah. >> You're the you're the you're the smart one, you're the one who saves and he's the child. And these dynamics have a way of self-reinforcing themselves. Doesn't give a pass.

It doesn't give an excuse for his dishonesty, his lying to his wife, his his >> impulsiveness. >> Yeah. Acting like a child. But it creates a context for where if you're going to treat me like a child for 40 years, I'm gonna act like a child.

Doesn't excuse it. And if he was on the phone with me, Dave and I'd be letting him have it. But you have to say, "This is a dynamic that we have co-created for 40 years where I think I'm better than him because I make more money or I had a second job or I have retirement." >> The quality of his soul would be greatly increased if the two of you could mutually respect each other, dignify each other with being in agreement before we make major decisions. >> There you go.

And that usually starts >> and that also concludes combining ownership of everything.

of stuff. >> And when you sit down to have conversations about um feeling dishonest, whatever, if you sit down and say you went out and did this again and you did this, he's going to fight you.

He has to. You've declared war. If you sit down and say, "Hey, I'm hurt. I'm scared. I feel this way. Start the conversation with eye statements and that can be an invitation. And then if he continues to act like um a child, then we're going to have to respond in some different ways. But you got to reset this whole communication pattern.

>> Yeah. I I You guys got to work on your skills. That's it. Your skills are low.

And that may mean sitting down with a marriage counselor who's not who's teaching you how to develop these skills.

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Funny they popped that picture up there.

That's a great picture. But it's one of the few times that someone's head glows more than mine. His hair just lit up under the lights. Mine usually shines like a bulb. You know, we have to put so much makeup on my head to keep it from just glistening, right? And his hair is like a dad gum halo, which would not be appropriate, right? But

>> it lights up. And he had us change the lighting cuz it was even worse than that. That That's funny. I like it. It was a good shot, though. Fun stuff. All right, for that's for those of you looking at YouTube. Open phones at 88 8255225.

Danielle's in New York City. Hi, Danielle. How are you?

Hey, good afternoon Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, Dave, I'm calling you because um I

have a question uh which is how do I b

how do I bounce back financially and get myself ready for retirement?

>> What are you bouncing back from?

>> Um well, I have been uh I had an

accident in 2007 which left me disabled.

M >> um I had to learn how to walk again.

>> Wow. >> Um and so finally um I got to the place

where I could do a part-time job cuz I needed the the money that I was getting from social security disability and my pension was basically going towards my rent. >> Um but I started doing that and um you

know hurt myself a couple of times.

wasn't able to really save up and then uh co came I was able to get a full-time

job but it was a temp job so of course that wasn't really enough still to you know save anything. >> Yeah. >> Um but now >> are you are you single Daniel?

>> Yes I am. Okay. I am single.

>> And you're 57. And how are you doing with the disability now? Are you working full-time or how you doing?

>> Praise God. I am working full-time. In fact, I just recently um was hired permanently. >> Good. What do you make? >> So, uh my salary is 50,600.

>> Okay. And you live in the city in New York City on 50 grand?

>> Yeah. >> Woo. I didn't know you could sneeze for 50 grand in downtown New York.

>> Wow. Okay. And you've got and you've got pension coming in in addition to that.

Are you still getting the social security?

Um, unfortunately, no. I >> work no longer qualified for it.

>> And they stop Yeah. And they stopped my pension. Yeah. >> Um, and in fact, that's part of the debt

that I owe because according to Social Security disability, I owe them $52,000.

>> Um, not to mention um $17,000 to IRS.

>> Mhm. >> Uh, $8,000. I had I had credit cards.

Um, but I owe 8,000 on that. And then >> How much is your rent now? >> Friend of mine.

>> Well, right now I'm living with a friend of mine. Uh, so I'm paying $375 a month,

but I am trying to get my own place. Um,

because, you know, I I love my friend and I want to keep her as a friend. Um, but I need my own place.

>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah, you do. Okay. All right. And so you've got a total of how much debt?

a total of 80 87,000.

>> Okay. And and a bunch of that is IRS and

repayment to social security for the time that you were working and should not have received disability according to them. Right.

>> Exactly. >> Okay. All right. Have you fought any of that yet?

>> Um I I talked to social security.

They're saying that I can possibly >> Yeah. >> Um have a security Yeah. Okay. So, I think we need to get someone in your corner that's used to fighting that battle because those battles are lengthy. Um, but they're

doable and they don't um they don't come

around telling you what all your rights are and what you can pull off there, but there's some things you can do there.

So, and uh and it will might and it might even affect the IRS bill if you refiled your an appeal and refiled an amended return on your tax bill. So, what I'm going to do because this is a complicated situation, I'm going to put you with one of our Ramsey coaches and I'm going to pay for it. It's not going to cost you anything. And they're going to come in and look at your situation and go at some of these people and see if we can get this 87,000 down to half

of that or something by just working the system and then we can work through the rest of it and get it paid off and then start building up some kind of a nest egg because you've got to start working towards a nest egg. Um, and you know,

it's all about, uh, cost of living versus what you've got coming in and finding those differences and being able to push that through. So, uh, you you've had a hard road, kiddo. You need somebody to love you well and walk beside you. And we're just those kind of folk.

So, you hang on. I'll have the Christian pick up and we'll get you one of our coaches as a gift from us. And, uh, I think they can help you. I really do.

It's what they do every day.

over that stuff. So, yeah, different world. >> Tell me about the Social Security repayment, Dave. I've never heard that before. >> Well, if you continue, if you're working >> Mhm. >> Um and you're uh receiving full payout

on SSI, which is Social Security for disability. M. So, she was declared

permanently and totally disabled by the government. Based on that, they're paying her >> probably 34,000 bucks a month, give or take. Okay? Might be more, might be less, but somewhere right in there. And it's not unusual. And based on the fact that she's permanently disabled and she qualifies to receive social security support >> uh instead of or in is different than the retirement you get through social security. Uh, but then when she went back to work, she kind of says >> double dipped >> says, "I'm really not permanently disabled anymore. I've gotten past that.

I've worked my way through that with therapy or whatever. I'm able to work again, but kept getting the checks." >> Okay? >> And so that that's not okay, >> right? >> You can't keep getting a check for being permanently disabled when you're no longer permanently disabled. And you've proven that by working. If you had a private disability company that you had

a disability policy at your work and they were paying you >> and then you went back to work, they would have private investigators following you around with cameras, >> right? >> So that they could not have to pay you the disability anymore. >> Do you know if you have to pay tax on SSI benefits? >> You do not.

>> So if you're getting 4,000 bucks, >> and that's where some of that taxes came from. So, if we can reduce what's owed back to them, >> then that might reduce that IRS tax bill probably. I'm guessing I'm I'm fishing around in the dark there, but I think that's what I'm hearing.

the hard work, getting back out there, right, >> is >> and you don't know if it's going to work. >> It's good for everybody. That's right. Good for everybody. But if you're getting a check for 4,000 bucks a month, >> 48 a year after taxes, right? That means you got to be making, >> you got to go find a job that pays pretty dang well >> to even get to to come off even.

>> Yep. Yep. >> That's tough. That's a tough order.

>> Yep. >> Right. >> Yep. >> Or human nature is going to say, "Why why swim upstream?" >> Yeah. Because you want to be well.

That's why >> I mean, you have it has to be that way. But if she's making 50 grand, then she took a net loss in her house after taxes. Yep. >> Living in New York City. >> She did. And I think she said they stopped her pension too. It was early early with release on it based on disability. So like we had a guy here years ago that was making over uh 400

and something thousand. One of our top guys uh uh got MS

>> and went home out. He was gone. He he

later passed away from it at an early age. but um went out on disability and

the disability people were paying him the policy we have here maxes at 300k or

it used to I don't know what it maxes at today and so he's getting 300k man they were fought on him everywhere >> I bet so huh >> trying to figure out if he was doing anything if he lifted a shovel if he got

paid for doing anything they were going to disallow that claim so you know we were coaching him whatever you do no matter how good you're feeling don't work >> because they're g they're They're going the long lens across the parking lot.

>> They're going to capture you doing anything. Yeah.

>> So, um uh and as because they get

defrauded in their defense, >> it's just one of those things that just there's not a lot of winners there, right? cuz I know they get defrauded and they want to protect their their money >> that they're >> they swing the pendulum so far that you just have to be paranoid about how you live >> or you got to be somebody like you know Danielle who says I'm going to take the net financial loss because I'm worth some different kind of life y >> and I'm going to have to work extra hard because it's going to cost me money to go get what?

>> Well, I'll just feel better about my life when it's me. That's right. Not some check coming in. >> Good for you, Daniel.

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Dr. John Deloney Ramsey, personality, PhD in counseling is my co-host today.

the open phones at88255225.

New Hampshire is on the line. Garrett's calling. Hi Garrett. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve, sir. How can we help?

>> Uh, I've racked up about $156,000

in business debt. And I've kind of been

contemplating bankruptcy. And I didn't know if maybe you thought I should or maybe

had other advice or options.

>> Wow. I'm sorry. It's scary, isn't it?

>> Yeah. Are are you married?

>> No. >> Okay. How old are you?

>> 25. >> Okay. And what do you uh owe the business debt on? What kind of debt is this? Credit cards or vendors or? Um so

about um so 30,500 is vendors.

Um $55,000 is I was dumb and took out a merchant

cash advance.

Um and then I owe my parents like

$65,000.

>> Okay. And then another another vendor 7250

>> uh 7250.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. And what kind of business is this or was it?

>> Uh I sell cabinets and countertops.

>> Okay. All right. And um

so uh a merchant advance

on what? >> Yeah. So my like future revenue

basically I gave them my bank statements and then they said we'll give you this much and it was like a daily payment and

then last year in 2024 I hit a very slow time and it pretty much just took me for everything I had. >> Yeah, that that one got you. It's a payday lender of your world. Yeah. Um because the interest rates the interest rates also ridiculous. Correct.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And um so what method do they have

access to your current checking account?

Is that how they they clean you out every so often? >> Um they were I've since put um like stop

payments on them and I'm actually I was working with like a or am technically still working with a consolidation agency, but that that cost is like $1,200 a week, which I can kind of do, but it's it's hard to manage that. And every time I miss a payment, they're threatening to cancel the program and it's non-refundable and it's still another $28,000 I have to pay into it before they'll um negotiate with them. And >> yeah, I think you stopped that immediately, too. You you jumped from the frying pan into the fire, didn't you?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I panicked and >> um I did all that before I'd kind of talked to anyone about it. Now, pretty much my whole family knows and I've been a little more open lately, so I've been getting like some more advice.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, are if you didn't have this mess, are did you do all this because you weren't making money?

>> Um, no. I was I was doing pretty well and then I I took a lo a pretty sizable

loss on a job and I also got a little full of myself after like a really good 4 month stretch. >> Mhm. Um, and I fell behind on my bookkeeping, which looking back, that was kind of the debt. That was like my detriment to it all.

>> You did a really good job in two sentences describing what happened, cuz that's exactly what happened. I can smell it. You're you're you're really on top of that. That's very well done.

You weren't doing your books. One job, you got o you got out too far over your skis on and they set you up for a fall and you were feeling invincible. Those three things together put you here. I believe you.

That's well done.

That's a Most people aren't that self-aware when they're in this much pain. Well done. Proud of you.

>> Uh we work with entrepreneurs and have for years. I've been bankrupt when I was your age. So I know exactly how it feels to be where you are. So the way we fix this is we take the things that are working and we apply them in a forced

rank order of importance. Bankruptcy is

not going to solve it because you can't bankrupt mom and dad. You can legally, but you're not going to. You're going to pay them. >> No. >> So, half of this almost is one thing and

it's them. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> So, >> the rest of it is 90,000 bucks worth of stuff. Um, how quick can we make that?

Now, let's pretend that you were just operating properly. You weren't out over your skis. You weren't taking jobs that could take you down. You weren't feeling over your feeling and you weren't borrowing any money. What can you make in this business? What kind of profit in a year can you make if you just started fresh?

>> Um, so last year I did about $400,000 of

uh revenue, right?

>> And I have a my margins are right around

uh 31%.

>> Okay. So you can make 100 you can make 100 grand a year and you have a $90,000 problem.

>> Yes. >> Cuz mom and dad aren't mom and dad aren't pressuring you.

No, but >> you want to pay them, but they're they can be they can be at the end of the list and that's okay.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, >> uh >> now here's here's an idea.

>> Nice as well. >> What vendors do you have to pay to keep

supplies coming to keep the business open?

>> What dollar amount does that represent?

>> Pretty much the the >> 37,000.

>> Not entirely. >> Yeah, I didn't think so. Half of that >> 14 17.

>> Yeah. >> About 20. >> Gotcha. Okay. >> About 20,000. >> You need to get on the phone with them first and we need to get on a program with them where we're going to clear them first and in return they're going

to keep sending you supplies. Cood.

>> Yeah, I have been I've been paying them.

It It was a large >> No, listen. I'm giving you a program. I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not asking for the story now. I'm telling you what to do. >> Okay. Okay, >> get on the phone with them and set up a program to pay $37,500 plus your new new

material needs going forward out of your hundred. It's the first thing you do.

The merchant people, uh, tell them they're not getting paid maybe ever, but

they're certainly not getting paid right now. You're going to sit on the sidelines and we're going to settle up later. If you want to sue me, sue me.

But I don't have any money. And if you sue me, I'm going to file bankruptcy and you're going to get nothing. So, you need to just sit over there until I can get this thing cleaned up and then I'm going to come pay you off. Okay?

You have a conversation with them, but you give them no more money and no more access to your business. You go make a 100 a year, 120 a year. You clean up your vendors first, and then you keep the cash flow running.

Then you go pay mom and dad the next year.

>> Right. >> You're out of debt. I just got you out of debt in three years.

>> Sounds sounds good to me. >> It's it's it's doable. What I just described is very doable. I've done it a thousand times. Now, the trick is you got to believe it and you got to be tough enough to run off these people that have been scaring the crap out of you. >> They've been running your life emotionally. They live in your head rentree. >> Can you tell? I've been there.

Yes. Yes, for sure.

>> It's no fun. And and and you feel like, you know, they're they're saying you're not a good guy, and you're a good guy that made a mistake.

>> You're not an evil person.

You didn't set up a business to go screw somebody, >> right? >> You're just a young guy that made some mistakes and now you got to go clean up your mistakes. Um you can file bankruptcy if you want, dude, but you're still going to have to pay your parents. and you did all of it over 90 grand that I just settled for somewhere around 50.

And you shouldn't file bankruptcy when you have the ability to make 120 a year.

>> Not morally, but I mean mechanically shouldn't file bankruptcy when you got the ability to make 120 a year and 50 grand cleans up your mess.

>> Cuz you're going to pay the 37. You're going to pay the 37,000 worth of vendors because you got to keep them in your life. The other people you're going to settle for 50 cents on the dollar and then you're going to call mom and dad and pay them as quick as you can. Never borrow money again from anyone,

not even your parents. Have you learned your lesson?

>> Yes. >> Yeah, you can do this, Garrett. You can really do this. I promise you can. Isn't that cool? >> Yeah. It's the master class on um when

we get scared, man, we go to fight or flight, we stop thinking. And sometimes it just takes someone to to >> sit down and say, "Hey, here's a plan. >> Here's the forest. Here's the trees." >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't burn everything down. >> I'm lost. I'm lost in the woods. We don't have to burn the forest. >> Yeah, that's exactly right. >> Just got to cut that two trees over there and then we can get out >> and then But you got to keep walking.

>> Yeah, just keep moving. Keep moving. Keep moving. And the good news about this guy is he's really smart cuz he quickly self analyzed. Very unusual.

Very unusual. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Thank you for joining us, America. Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, host of the Dr.

John Deloney show where you can hear all

about boundaries and relationships and

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I can tell you that. So check him out.

It's all on the Ramsey networks anywhere great podcasts are heard and certainly on the YouTube show as well. So, uh, anywhere you are, by the way, if you're listening to this show, we thank you for that and, uh, we can use your help. If

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were number two and number three in all of Apple podcasts. There's about two million of them. And Joe Rogan was sitting there at number one. NPR was in there at number two or three. We were in there at number two or three. And that's because of you guys sharing and telling people about it. Thank you very much. We appreciate you. It's really important because we don't have a stadium named after us like or somebody like that, right? Excuse me. I got an allergy. But all right. Uh Steve's in Salt Lake City.

Hey, Steve. What's up?

>> Hey guys. Hey. Um, I've got a short-term question and a longer term question for you guys. Um, the short starting taking

a family vacation. Um, so I'm a uh the

single income earner of our family. We have seven kids. My wife homeschools our kids at home. Um, we've not taken a vacation in probably eight or nine years. And recently, we ended up we we

just got done doing a big home renovation. Spent about 50 grand uh out of pocket, you know, cash flowing that.

And the last little probably 15,000 or so we had to take out of our six months six months fund to finish the project because of course it always ends up going more expensive than you thought.

So my question is um and first of all we

have a kid about to go off to college in about 4 months or whatever it's going to be um and we want to take that vacation

before he is obviously gone. Um, I've

only saved up about $1,500 for a vacation over the past few months or so.

Obviously, that's not going to get it done. To take a family of nine on a vacation, we probably need 6,000 or so for that vacation. My question is, do we pause on um rebuilding that six-month

fund back up to about 60 grand a $60,000

and put it for the vacation or

get get that full six months back in the fund and then focus on a vacation?

>> Man, that's so dangerous. >> That makes sense. >> That's just so dangerous.

I mean, you you completely rationalized spending all of your vacation money and some of your emergency fund on the renovation and so you chose not to go on vacation when you did that.

>> True. >> Yeah. So, you traded cuz you had the money to go on vacation.

>> Just didn't do the renovation.

>> But you chose the renovation instead of the vacation.

>> Yeah. Basically, we we bought a house that did not have a built-up basement and we had half of the house basically.

So, >> so that's when you chose when you bought the wrong house. That's when you chose to not go on vacation. >> Okay. >> Because you chose to do a renovation because you chose. But see, these are all choices.

It's not like somehow that somebody stole something from you and you you put

the money on one thing and now you don't have it to do the other thing. That's how it works, right?

>> Yep. >> Correct. and and having nine kids and no emergency fund or a limited emergency fund, dude, you're asking for trouble.

>> Okay, >> that's so scary. I I'm scared for you. I

don't care. It doesn't matter to me. You're the one with the nine kids. I I don't have to I don't have to feed them.

You do. But I'm scared for you.

>> Um Okay. And I want you to get to do the things you want to do. I'd love for you to go do that. You can do whatever you want to do. Y'all are adults. You can make these choices. You've been making choices. But I want you to realize that when you're making choosing one thing with money, you're choosing not to do several other things.

>> Sure. Okay. >> And so you're choosing but to if you choose to go on vacation and have a limited emergency fund, not if the emergency occurs, when it occurs, because it's going to occur. We we have nine opportunities for an emergency here

>> at all times. >> True. >> And uh so when it occurs, then you've chosen to leave your family vulnerable.

And the trade was for a vacation. That scares me. Uh so you guys do what you want to do, but I I think I'm going on a $1,500 vacation.

>> Yeah. And I think I Man, Dave, I'm totally with you. And working with parents who were dropping their kids off at college, there's always this illusion that we got to get this last thing in.

We got to do this thing. >> It's not over. >> No, it's not over. Number one, but often that last thing, we don't really care about the kids. We need to do it for us.

It's almost like this guilt induced this is it. We got to do a thing and we got to everybody's got to come do this thing and it ends up >> Well, but we've never had a vacation in how many years, >> right? In 17 or 18 years >> and we chose to do a renovation or buy a house that required a renovation, used up all our money instead. >> That's right.

>> So, the vacation obviously was not as important. >> Wasn't a priority. That's right. And now it's this end and now there's this sense of, oh, we're about to lose him.

He's going to go away. It's the last spring break. We got to do this thing. And so, I would invite the kids into a room and say, we have this much money.

Let's get as creative as possible. We're going to make our own snacks. We're going to go to a KOA. We're gonna have a blast.

But this is the money we got. And I promise if you do it right, the kids will have a great time. Now, whether you go and feel guilty cuz it's not in Cabo or something, that's on you. But you chose to spend that Cabo money on on on a renovation or on a house.

>> Yeah. Um, you seem distressed. Just a just a >> Well, I just I I I I want him to be able

to do this. >> Yeah. >> But I can't as an adult say it's a good idea. I guess there's I I I kind of I

kind of get it. But but I the other thing I think that you're pointing out something that's very right because we had some of the best vacations with our kids that we ever had while they were in college. >> Yeah. It's not over.

As a matter of fact, on the front of a cruise ship one night at happy hour before dinner, they decided as adults to start telling us all the stuff they had done as teenagers that we didn't know. >> I would have paid money to be there for that.

total failure as a parent because I had been deceived by these three brats repeatedly throughout their teenage years. And I had no idea. I thought I was so on top of it >> and I completely had no idea what these skunks had been into. >> Well, here's what's going to be fun at the at the Ramsay cruise.

>> Um, >> we're going to do it again. >> I'm going to get Rachel and Daniel and things that have happened in the last decade that you probably don't know about. >> Oh, I don't even want >> but we're going to we're going to go through them all again, man. >> So, yeah, it was a great cruise other than that particular evening.

But, yeah, it was um but they were adults. Daniel, I think uh maybe Denise was out of college and Denise and um well, no, I know. I guess Denise and Rachel were both married, come to think of it. In fact, >> here's what y'all did and we've all heard the statistic about um >> we do stuff together with them as adults that's better than it would have been when they were 13.

>> Well, and that's the thing. I was just there's a statistic going around that you get 19 years with your kids. You get 18 with them at home in the rest of their life all added together as one year. And I think that we just go Yeah, >> it's called gush.

But it's it's >> unless you're unless you're a twerp as a parent. >> It's one of those cultural they're just gone. And I think nope. If you're intentional and you build relationships and you're somebody they want to be around.

>> Yeah. >> Then >> it's kind of like what stage of children did you like the best? >> Yeah. >> All of them.

>> They're all different. >> And I don't want to do any of them again. >> But I liked all of them. >> That little boy who just reached out to >> Oh, he's great.

He's great. As long as I can hand him back.

>> Yeah. >> My son have to do the potty training. I can just do the hugs. Okay.

So that that's great. That's the way it's supposed to be. So, you know, if I don't known how great grandkids are going to be, I'd have been nicer to their parents. But, you know, that that's a different thing.

So, but I'm and I'm loving this stage, right? >> I'm loving the other stage. I And I've loved every stage. I don't Yeah.

It it's um So, embrace the toddlerhood, embrace the teenage years, embrace them leaving for college, >> but every expense is a choice at the end of the day. >> Yeah. And you're choosing the thing you got to remember, it's called opportunity cost in the finance world.

When you do B, you lose the opportunity to do A. It'll only do one thing. It won't do both. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dr. Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, PhD and counseling is my co-host today. Open

phones at88255225.

Kim is in South Dakota. Hi Kim, how are you? >> I'm great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. So, we um live debtree, had

purchased two used cars. We followed your program since we had our daughter 20 something years ago. um and have lived that way, but ran into a little snaggle when we were part of a natural disaster. And we had purchased homeowners insurance with State Farm and had a really high deductible because our opinion was we had enough money saved that if something happened, we would pay for it ourselves and not pay a huge premium. And so that's how we lived our lives. Um we don't go on vacations. Um

our we have one child who was in college and we were paying for that with cash. She's premed so she has to go to school for that. And so that's kind of how we lived our lives until this storm came.

But the storm made our house unlivable.

And so we had to go into a hotel for two and a half years. And the insurance company um did not pay us uh like they

said they would. And so we ran up thousands and thousands of credit card debt dollars in debt to pay for food, housing, all of that stuff. And unfortunately, we tried to resolve this with them and couldn't. So we we have an attorney who's filing suit against them to try to get our money back.

But in the meantime, >> we're trying to dog paddle our our way out of this. And at the same exact time, our child had to have open heart surgery. We had to take her to California to Stanford. And we spend a lot of time, which I have no control over these bills at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester.

You have to pay for food when you're Mayo gas. And so it's very difficult to budget. So I just wanted to know if there's something I'm missing because sometimes you're too close to it to see it. Um what's the best way to manage

this because I don't feel like I have control like we used to have. Um and I

just wanted some ideas.

>> Okay. Um

I I mention so for 20 years you were completely debtree and you didn't have any money.

Well, we had did have money, but we used a lot of that um to do repair up front.

We became the Bank of State Farm.

>> Yeah, I know. But how much how much money did you have?

>> Um we had a I'm going to say saved up

and not used for college cash on hand because we just bought this house probably about $100,000 >> that we had saved up. >> And so why did it take two and a half years? And why were you not buying your own food while working?

Um, well, we couldn't pay in the hotel.

You can't you can buy food, but you can't cook if there's no >> Well, I mean, if it's going to take two and a half years to go, why don't you go rent something?

>> We tried. Um, there wasn't anything available that met the the physical needs that we had. We had moved our neighbor into our home who was 90 years old, actually 95 for end of life care, and we couldn't have stairs and there were just requirements that we had that they could not meet. So, we ended up in a hotel and you had to pay for laundry.

You had to pay for, you know, meals three times a day. >> I mean, State Farm screwed you, but so did those decisions.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, that you you quadrupled or 5xed

your cost. And it doesn't take two and a half years to rebuild a house.

>> Oh, it's not even done now.

>> I mean, I mean, why Okay, so >> I built an entire house in in 11 months.

Why can you not build a house? I I I've got family members that just lost their house in Texas and last night was their

first night back, >> but it was it's been what, four months, five months? >> Like Yeah. Two and a half years. Tell me about that. Like it seems like they could have knocked the whole house down. >> It was a natural disa. It was a natural disaster. So there were lots of building going on, projects going on. So there weren't a lot of contractors available.

It was also during the time where you had high gas prices and stuff and contractors didn't even want to come out to look at the house. It wasn't something that they wanted to do because there was so much work. Um there was a lot of contributing factors. Also the fact that State Farm was not approving things. Um you kept having to wait. They would make us do another estimate and another estimate another.

>> Right. So, but you stayed in the ditch

rather than making a decision to do something completely different for 2 and 1/2 years. So, that's what put you here.

Um, my goodness. And now the health your

your daughter that's studying to be a doctor has had open heart surgery.

>> Correct. >> So, she's not studying to be a doctor right now. She's recovering, right?

No, they're the school's letting her stay in school and she's trying to do stuff, you know, online and submit things sometimes late. And >> did you not did she have health insurance?

>> She has our health insurance, my husband's health insurance. >> And does it not cover the surgeries and the other stuff?

It covers surgeries, but it doesn't cover any any of the other things associated with it like hotel bills and

gas and food when we go to Mayo or when we had to go to Stanford. We in Stanford for seven months. >> Yeah. So, what is your household >> income for?

>> 188 >> and and you can't buy a hotel bill and

go to Stanford if you make 188,000.

Well, again, I mean, we did and you

know, put things on credit cards and you

know, >> you make 188,000 >> because we had a mortgage payment and we had college tuition and we had other things that we were paying. I mean, it wasn't and we were paying, you know, for the house while we were in the hotel. I mean, there was a lot of those and I could sit here and go over a single bill and you go, "Oh, that makes sense." But we're not extravagant. I mean, we're not

um give you an idea like we've canceled our trash service and gather up our own trash and take the dump ourselves and run sprinklers money.

>> Yeah, we're not trying to pick those apart. I I think if if I back all the way out of this thing, I think the part for for every emotional health challenge, there is this distance from this scary terrifying line called reality. Mhm.

>> And if you on my show, I say this probably three times an episode, which is the life you had is over and you got

a new one now.

>> And what most people try to do is keep parts or the whole of their old life going while navigating this new reality.

And so, for instance, you were in a position when you were debtree and had 100 grand in the in the bank and y'all made $200,000 a year to fully fund your kids college. That's a dream you'll have. It's a priority for you. If you can't afford it though, you can't afford it. And that's a hard conversation with your kid. That That's what I'm That's what I'm talking about. >> Yeah. And you know, the third month, not the third year, >> right? >> I sue State Farm and I move out of a hotel.

the third month and if I have to pay for nursing home for the 92 year old neighbor as a to just to make me feel good about that I will or maybe not >> or go to my church and say >> maybe I I can't do this. I thought I could help this guy and I can't help this guy anymore. I'm not in a position because only the strong can help the weak and right now our knees are broken and we can't do anything.

Um, so I think you got to start putting some limitations on some of these things that you keep declaring as absolutes in this conversation. >> The absolute is we got to have a place to live and we got to keep our daughters like healthy. And outside of that, I think everything's got to be back on the table. >> And 188,000 will do those things.

>> Yeah. >> Without credit card debt and without parsing it out and parsing it out and parsing it out, you know. So, and you

know, just if if it's any consolation to you at all, State Farm has a horrible reputation on claims. You're not the only one. So, sue their butt. But I'm not going to wait around on them to fix my life either.

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Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Larry Berquette used to be on the air a thousand years ago. did a Christian radio show, um, Money Matters, it was

called, about what the Bible says about money. And he's one of the guys I learned from. I certainly learned what the Bible says about money from Larry a lot. He passed away several years ago. We became friends before he passed away, but at first I was just a fanboy. And

uh, he used to say, "Debt is never the problem. Financial

problems are never the problem. They're always the symptom.

So you need to keep that in mind because that's how we're going to view it.

Personal finances 80% behavior. It's 20%

head knowledge. So if you have a student

loan debt that you've made no progress on for 5 years,

the student loan debt is not the problem.

The new triplets that just came were not

here for the last 5 years. They're not

the problem.

The interest rate is not the issue. This is not an

interest rate issue. This is a you

problem. And John, when people get to the bottom of that, that's the beautiful thing about the the work you do in counseling with a PhD in counseling and uh the work that that the reason you joining this team as a Ramsey personality is a is a perfect overlap to

our approach to money because what I'm

the interest rate is irrelevant

because you haven't dealt with you.

That's the thing. When you deal with you, you're you're not only going to get financial peace, two words that don't go together, like airline service, but you're also going to get uh progress and

wealth. Until you deal with you, you're not going to get any of that, >> right? And it's hard to sell somebody on that when they're so convinced from a Tik Tok ad or or Tik Tok, you know, swipe or whatever where they got the information. Um, and I think a lot of us sit in our house, man, and we just spin out with life's problems.

I can't imagine having triplets just show up after having a couple of other kids. I Whatever your problem happens to be, you lost your job, your marriage is falling apart, whatever it is, and it's so much easier. We have so much distraction in our world, we can just spin our wheels and jam that gas pedal into the bottom of the of the car, thinking we're going real fast and we're going nowhere. We're just avoiding.

um it lures us to our own death because

it makes us think we can fix it by fixing the math.

And the math is very seldom the problem.

The math is the symptom.

It's not the problem. The problem is our

spending, our income, our lack of

control, our lack of working together, >> our choices. Just keep our behaviors and

our our principles by which but but we somehow think we can unplug from all of this stuff that's called our life and set this money thing over here to the side and just fix it with just math.

>> But the pro and and the reason you can't is it doesn't unplug. It's sitting there

right in the middle of your freaking life because your life is impacting it.

It's impacting your life. You can't just set it over here in a test tube and go, "It's a math thing. 6% versus zero." It's not a math thing. And let's let's I want to speak to the person who's listening to this or to the gajillions of people who are listening to this who are five years from today away from

triplets or a job loss or a mom calling

and saying, "I have cancer." or a husband saying, "I haven't been faithful." Or whatever the thing is, that choice starts now. Cuz 5 years ago,

if they had been hellbent on paying these things off, it's life would still be chaotic. But I want people to listen to that man's voice. It just sounds cooked, right?

It's it's heartbreaking.

>> And you can celebrate the chaos of three kids coming home or not be able to breathe because you can't there's no there's no room for three kids. I remember when our oldest daughter Denise had the third one. Her husband Bill said, "Well, we just went from man-on-man to zone defense." >> My buddy said, "Man, it was all cool till we went from manto man to zone and they win." >> Taylor is in Indianapolis. Hey, Taylor.

What's up? >> How are we doing today? Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure man. How can I help?

>> Um, so I'm thinking about doing a job switch right now. I drive a dump truck and I'm in the union and everything, but I'm looking to be a pilot.

But I have 5,000 in debt and it's going

to set me back another 85,000, but I plan on having the 5,000 that I have now and paying that off this season before I get laid off.

>> Now, you're asking me if you can go if if I think you should go $85,000 in debt to be a pilot. Is that what you're asking?

>> Yeah, if you think it's a smart job.

>> No, it's not.

Okay. >> Under no circumstances would I do that.

Now, should you go become a pilot? Yeah,

probably. How old are you?

>> Uh, I'm 30. >> Okay. Are you married?

>> I am. >> Okay.

Um, I would talk to the Air National Guard and see if they have any programs for training pilots while you serve your country.

weekends and two or three sets of uh boot camp a

year. Um that wouldn't put you away from

your family necessarily uh or not for long periods of time. Uh and let see if they'll pay for it. They have lots of wonderful programs. I know that. Um I I

also would start talking to the local airport about how I can get my hours there uh after I get a I would pay to get a certain number of hours and get my first set of Are you licensed at all?

Um, no. Right now I drive a dump truck.

>> No, I know. I heard that. But have you gotten any pilots hours in at all?

>> Uh, no. >> How do you know you want to do that?

>> Um, I worked at the airport about five years ago and I wanted to do it about then that time. Sorry.

>> But I never pulled the trigger and I end up just going to get my CDLs and I've been at this for about five years now.

>> Okay. All right. I I'm with you on living your dream. I just don't want you to do it in such a way it becomes a nightmare. So, let's figure out a way that we can walk into this a little at a time, start getting your hours in while you keep driving truck and cuz you're making some good money on the truck, but we're not we just don't want to be doing that 10 years from now. You want to be in the air, right?

>> Yes. >> But I don't want I don't want to try to do it at super high speed because I don't want you going $85,000 in debt because you might not make $65,000 the first year. It's very possible if you got your commercial hours in and you can actually fly a jet and that may cost you more than 85,000 to get to that point where you can actually pick up a regional job doing some of these puddle jumpers. They don't pay anything, man.

>> Yeah. >> Entry level pilot pay sucks.

>> Yeah. From what I heard it's about 55,000 a year, but then >> Yep. >> I would be going with Lift Academy. I say I get on with Republic and they're paying $94 an hour starting off. Mhm.

>> How many hours I get? >> Maybe. Maybe. But >> but hey, you're you're about to walk into the trap, brother, where you borrow a bunch of money and you've done some napkin envelope on the top carrier, paying a top dollar, and you've made that math work. >> Yeah. >> And there's a lot of may and maybe nots and probably and probably nots in between you and that dollar amount, man.

>> So, you're trying to jump from the dock into the boat, and the boat's not close enough to the dock. That's what I'm saying. So, I want you to pull the boat closer to the dock. And how's that sound?

It sounds like going over there starting to get some of your hours, paying for your first level of licenses, maybe get a weekend job as an instructor once you got enough hours under your belt. And they'll pay you to put more hours down and you can start to build your hours up because the biggest cost is not the actual certifications, it's the hours to get ready.

want to take because if when you take a job at 55 or 60 versus what you're doing now, union to dump truck, you're taking a pay cut to move into this dream

initially. And I don't care if you found one off at 94. That's not the that's not the industry. The industry is 55 or 60 right now for entry. And I want you to go do that because you can make your way up to two or 300,000 someday. But please

don't go $85,000 in debt and rush this.

do it a little bit at a time and or talk to the Air National Guard. Let's see if you can figure out a way to get some hours working for your country and they'll pay for the whole stinking thing possibly. I don't know. Let's see what they got out there. This is the Ramsey Show.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind.

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Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. We trust Y refi because they

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Might not be in all states.

>> All right. Today's question comes from Jenna in Minnesota. Jenna writes, "Should I help my boyfriend pay off student loan debt?" No. I guess we could just end it there, but I'll keep going.

I know what you're going to say, so let me explain. >> Still no. >> We both went to college for mechanical engineering. My parents covered my tuition, but my boyfriend has over $125,000 in college loans.

We both work good jobs and bring home a combined income of $200,000, but his loan payments are killing him. He didn't want to burden me with them, and he wants to put our life on hold, marriage, house, and children, until they're paid off. He has about 15k in savings and so this is going to be a long process. I have 80,000 in savings and roughly 300,000 in stocks that my grandpa set up for me when I was a kid.

Should I help pay off my boyfriend's loans by adding an amount to his payment every month? Pay them outright or do you think I shouldn't help him at all?

>> That's exact I was going to say he is this is a it's a red herring. It's a it's a proxy. >> It's a ploy. >> Yes. So listen, kiddo. We tell folks when they get married, everything becomes shared.

So you will have $125,000 student loan when you're married because your husband does. He will have $300,000 in stocks

that his wife's grandfather left her. He

will have $80,000 in savings that his wife had before they got married. And so

when you get home from the honeymoon, pay off the pay off the student loan.

But this is bull crap.

It's bull crap. >> On a stick. So frustrating.

>> Yeah. Tell boy child time to get, you know, part of the problem is is we're all playing house over here. So he's got no incentive to get married other than blackmail you into it. So now if you want to have a healthy relationship, y'all get married yesterday since you're playing house anyway. We have a combined income. You don't have a combined income. You're not married. That's bull crap. You're shacking up. And we would not have a show if people like you didn't withdraw um $125,000 from the

money that their grandparents sent them to pay off a boyfriend's loans and then y'all break up.

>> Oh yeah, that's like >> standard. >> We wouldn't have this show if that didn't happen all the time. And I know you can say, "No, not us. Not us." >> No, he would never do that.

>> Yes, y'all. >> The guy that won't marry me would never do that.

>> You know how you sound so seriously? No.

>> Don't. Please don't. Please don't. Please don't. >> Time to get married, boys and girls.

Look, I think this is a I think it's a good I think it's a good like an altter call right here. It's come to Jesus. Are we Are we going to do this or not? Yeah.

>> Cuz if you're going to get married, y'all get y'all come home from the honeymoon. We would tell you to take the $380,000 that you have in assets and pay off the $125,000 debt that he has. And then we take off with our life with our fabulous combined income and zero debt and whatever's left

of that money, which would still be 200,000 bucks. So, yeah. And by the way,

when you get married, what you're agreeing to do is to help carry burdens together >> for richer, for poorer.

>> And so if he if he already says, "Well, I've got this thing going on, so I'm going to hide it from you. I don't want to be with you. I don't want to be apart from you." This will be the rest of your life. This will happen with kids. This will happen with tuition. This will happen with which church to go to. This will happen again and again and again.

This is the big glaring neon sign.

>> Put our wife on our life on hold.

>> He doesn't want to burden me with them. >> To put our life on hold, >> then he he's not ready to marry you then. Oh, brother. >> We're going to work together. Work together. Work together. >> I'm going to give this guy about 20 minutes.

Get me to the church on time, baby.

I'm serious. I'm I'm done with this guy.

This is bothering me for some There's something about this that's running all over me. And I I'm usually a little bit I'm pretty pretty mean, but I'm usually a little bit more gentle than this. >> Yeah. >> But this is this there's something wrong, Jenna. >> Here's what I Here's what is is getting under my skin. Oh, I know what it is.

You have worded all of this.

It's all the dad gum language. That's what's killing me. You have worded all this cuz you have bought this freaking sales line. >> That's it. That's the thing.

>> She's the problem. She thinks she is the problem here. >> This guy has complete. He's a I'm afraid he's a con artist. >> He's a leech. Yeah.

>> So, either way, if you're Listen, you you either need to leave or you need to get married.

There's no don't pay off his loans.

>> And don't pay off his loans unless you get married. And if you get married, then it's our loans and our money. And we'll do that. But you got you got about 20 minutes, buddy. About 20 minutes.

Stop the sales job. Don't like don't like uh con artists who are sleeping with the person they're conning. It's a problem.

Dad gum salesman.

Sorry. I think I've had too much coffee.

John, merry Christmas. Ho ho ho. Oh my gosh. I need to calm down. But yeah, I just I think about my girls and they did not Thank God we, you know, thank God they we taught them how to pick and they picked studs. So I've got two sons-in-law. They're absolutely incredible. >> I I Yeah, I've got a young daughter and >> you would kill him.

>> But here's what here's why. I saw you just >> I know. I do. Here's why. This young woman, Jenna, is >> is astounding.

>> Yeah, she's a dead gummy. >> She's a mechanical engineer. She makes 100 grand. She's got half a million dollars already put together because her grandpa hooked her up. >> And she's got this guy that she loves and the guy is making her the reason.

Yeah. >> And so she's asking herself every day, what am I doing wrong? Oh, I have another way I can save this thing.

>> I I want to help. I know what you're going to say, but I'm different. No, >> it's not you, it's him. It's him.

>> You're worth more than this. That's what I'll say. >> You're more valuable. >> The dad of a daughter. >> We're angry for you, Kevin.

>> Yeah. So, >> brought to you by Wy Refi and

Preparation H because I got hemorrhoids now. God, makes me so mad when guys are idiots. >> Patrick's in Orlando. Hey, Patrick.

What's up?

>> Hey guys. Um, so the situation is we're

uh my wife and I are 67 and we've got 2.8 million in four

different mutual funds. Way to go.

Debtree.

>> Thank you. Thank you. We're debtree. and

we got an offer we couldn't refuse on our business. We close December 11th. We

get 575 cash and we hold a note for 5

years for 300.

So that brings me to the question because I've got a daughter that lives in Austin, Texas, and she and her

husband have been married for 20 years and we have a beautiful grandchild. Um,

and uh they're saving for a house.

They're also debtree. They're doing everything right. They're both teachers and um they want to get a house and they're saving like crazy. Um two rounds of IVF

to get Julia here uh pretty much wiped out their savings and uh they're trying to come back for that. And I'm thinking, you know, December 11th, I collect 575.

I could probably, you know, give them the money for a pretty nice house in Austin with that 575.

>> And uh so that's one option. Option two would be a really strong Just do it.

>> Yeah, I like it. >> Okay. >> I like it. Can I Can I add one thing to it?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I I do want this to be a gift and I'll teach you a technical thing you need to do, but aside from that, I do want it to be a gift without strings.

Sort of, >> right? But I I would sit down in person with them, you and your wife, go to

dinner and make this a big deal. This is not just a drive by breakfast one morning coffee. Okay? We're going to a nice restaurant. >> We're going to make a production out of this and say this has nothing to do with the grandkid. Although you've said it six times that it does, but it doesn't.

Okay? It shouldn't. It shouldn't because

you shouldn't give it to them because the grandkid. You should give it to them because they have been responsible and you're not bringing harm to them and you're not enabling bad behavior.

Instead, you're accentuating and lifting

the positive thing that they have been doing with their life and it's going to it's going to change your family tree the rest of the way. So, yes, you should do it. And I would say I'm going to give this to you with no strings attached. I will tell you I have a favor to ask that

you promise to never borrow money again.

Love it. Love it. >> And I wouldn't I wouldn't make that it's not a contract, >> but I would just say I I'm doing this to change my family tree, >> but if you go screw that up by borrowing money, it's going to break my heart.

And I would do it. Yeah. Now, oh, Unified Estate Tax Credit. Talk to your tax guy. You need to use up some of your estate tax exemption so you don't have gift tax. Don't do this without tax advice. Go get some tax advice, please.

This is the Ramsey Show.

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Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host. Open phones at8255225.

Matt is in Seattle. Hi, Matt. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Um, I I got a question for you. So, I currently have three jobs and spend more than 12 hours a day working. And I save

and invest about half my income. So, I'm

saving about 100,000 a year. So, financially, we're sound, but it comes at a cost. So, I'm not spending enough time with my children and my health is

uh deteriorating. Well, not I'm not dying, but it's impacting negatively.

>> How much do you have in savings in your investments?

>> Yeah. So, I So, with I've been doing this I've been having three jobs for about five years now or going into six years. >> So, you put a half million dollars away.

>> Yeah. Exact. Well, yeah. Exactly. So, with that money, I've bought um four homes. one primary residence and three single family homes and I'm renting it all out right now. >> Okay. And what are the three single family homes worth?

>> Um roughly on average about 600k

>> each. >> And I bought it for about Yeah. Correct.

>> Okay. So, the the three rental properties are worth $1.8 million and they're paid for.

>> No, no, no, no, no, no. Um about about like 40 I have about 40% equity on each house. Oh, so you still have debt on them. Okay. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, wait. Half a million. Okay.

>> So, when it comes to equity, I have about 1.3 in all all those four houses.

Gotcha. >> And I have about 350,000 in uh savings

and IRA combined.

>> Yeah. So, I just turned 40 and I I've been happy so far, but like I I just turned 40 this year and since then I've been thinking about a lot of stuff like is this am I am I doing a good thing?

And I initially I thought um

uh I'm doing the right thing for the family, but I'm starting to think about myself too. I I think I'm just kind of going through the midlife crisis. But also, so when I think about quitting those two jobs, the thought of living paycheck to paycheck terrifies me.

>> Honey, you're not living paycheck to paycheck.

>> If I Well, if >> you're putting $100,000 away,

>> quitting two jobs is not going to make you paycheck to paycheck.

>> You're so exaggerating that.

Well, if I after I put all the like max

out on 401k and IRA, I'm not going to be

saving any money at all.

>> Oh, >> on a monthly basis.

>> So, back off of your investing. You only got $2 million.

>> You're not living paycheck to paycheck.

That's a bogus emotional response.

>> Why are you afraid to just sit at home with your family, dude?

>> Yeah. >> Why? Why?

>> Well, initially I was part of like fire movement, but I'm I'm thinking a lot a lot of things can happen in the future.

So, I >> fire movement burned down. Did you notice >> it burned to the ground? It burned around people's ears because they were trying to do something that wasn't sustainable.

>> What you're doing is not sustainable.

What you're doing is not sustainable.

>> You didn't build a life. You built a financial portfolio. And now your brain is waking up and saying, "Go build a life." and and we're saying yes, go build a life. >> Here's what I promise you, dude. >> I agree with your brain. >> When you're 50, you can hand the kids a

key to a rental house.

>> I promise you, they would have exchanged it for time with their dad.

And by the way, that's a false dichotomy because you work hard. You're still going to be able to offer your kids a pretty extraordinary life financially.

And you get to spend time with your kids. I think you're scared to go home and be with your family. Am I wrong?

>> Well, are you afraid to admit that the fire thing you bought into sucked?

>> And also, I think it has to do with my ego. Like, I just I'm successful and

superior, but >> And you have four houses worth $1.3 million per year. Your net worth is $2 million and you're 40 years old. Ding, ding. You got the bell. You You rung the bell. You're done.

>> You're done. If you don't do anything else, you're going to be worth $20 million at 65.

If you just let the investments that you have grow, that's all.

There's no need to panic here. And uh by the way, people working and enjoying their work and going to work and having meaning uh as long as they're able is not bad. I intend to be on this microphone until I don't make sense.

Now, I don't want to be one of those guys that doesn't make sense. We've seen those and they're dangerous. But um yeah. So anyway, yeah, we need to get off at that point. But no, you dude.

Yeah, your brain is telling you what to do. You already know what to do. All I'm telling you is is your emotions are exaggerating that you're like going to be starving to death and or something and living paycheck to paycheck. Not even close.

>> How much of >> Oh, here's an idea. >> Quit.

And if a year from now you're you think

you're going to be homeless or something, go back to work.

>> Three different jobs. >> You can get you can get those jobs right back. Those kinds of jobs are always waiting. How much of this stress, Dave, because I've never lived this life. You keep telling yourself with your neoortex, the your thinking part of your brain, I'm worth $1.3 million. I'm worth $1.3 million. But your amigdula, the threat detection part of your brain says, you still owe $900,000 on these

four houses. If you still owe money, you still owe money. And every month, no matter what your net worth is or how much money you have coming in, your brain knows you're still on the hook for all these property. That's got to weigh you down, doesn't it? >> That's probably part of it. But I think he's been running at breakneck speed. He didn't even notice that part.

>> I I that's my opinion just talking to him. I think he's just No, he was trying to run. He He thought there was an endgame. >> Tell me about fire. >> Fire is >> to retire young. >> To retire retire at 40, not have to work again. Yeah. And the numbers don't work.

>> Gotcha. >> It does. You people. And because the problem with money, like when you view money that way is money's a bully in the schoolyard.

As soon as you say, "Hit me in the nose," you step back. If you cross this line, I'm going to hit you. You step across the line, he steps back and draws another line. Says, "If you cross this line, then I'm going to hit you." And that's what money does.

It keeps keeps because there's always another one. >> There's always a bigger thing. There's always a different thing. There's always a reason.

There's always inflation. There's always a better car. There's always a Oh, mama. Mama wanted a house in the mountains.

You can't check you can't catch that carrot. It's impossible to catch. And so, uh, if if you could maintain

godliness with contentment and say, "Okay, I'm going to live a lifestyle of

$50,000 a year income." Then you can build a big enough nest egg to quit.

But you can, you're something about our psychology won't let us do it. We start out with that and that's the math. But then by the time we get used to living on a $150,000 lifestyle, uh then I got

to go back to a $50,000 lifestyle to quit. Which is exactly >> what he's saying. He's saying I'm going to be paycheck to he's not even close to paycheck to paycheck. But he's going to have to cut his lifestyle. He's going to have to drop his investing from $100,000

a year contribution. >> No, that was in addition to maxing out everything else. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So he can still max out everything >> and >> and you can't do $100,000 extra.

>> Extra. Yeah. >> And that's paycheck to paycheck. That's not paycheck to paycheck. >> There's also this you get to be 40 and you got $2 million and you thought it was going to feel a different way.

>> That's true. You thought it was going to be a billion. >> You thought you were going to do nothing and doing nothing will kill you. >> It's one of the things I had to outline with all these um little communists that are coming out of college. Have to explain to them the um that a billionaire is not the same thing as a millionaire.

A millionaire. A billion is a thousand

million.

Billionaires have four houses, a jet, and seven cars. Millionaires have two

used Camry and one house

and it's paid for and they have $800,000

in their 401k. That's a millionaire. But

a billionaire is a thousand million. And

people emotionally have these two things confused. They think of some rap artist

or whatever in a private jet, which they don't even own. It's chartered. But um but I mean they think it's there. They oh that's how you don't live like that with a $3 million net worth.

>> You you know stupid jet would be more than that much less you know the whole I mean it's just like so that's not how it works. It's the emotions of when I get to be a millionaire I'm going to be a billionaire. No you're not. You're going to be a millionaire. Two used came.

>> That's still a good thing. >> Two used Camry and $800,000 in your 401k and a paid for $500,000 house >> and a lot of laughter in your home. >> Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding. You're done. This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Dr.

John Deloney, number one bestselling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, massive hit on Ramsey Network.

He's my co-host today. Open phones at825-55225.

Lynn is in New York. Hi, Lynn. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I wanted to see if I should take out

a $10,000 loan to help my mom fix her

kitchen. Um, there's some emotional reasons why I would and why I wouldn't.

And ultimately, I'm trying to see if the financial the financials make sense to help me make the decision.

>> So, you don't have $10,000 to give your

mom?

>> I don't. No. >> Okay.

And your mom's broke?

>> She Yeah, she has a pension. She has social security. She's retired. So, she's on a fixed income.

>> How How old is your mom?

>> She's almost 80.

>> And how's her health?

>> She's actually quite spry for her age.

>> Good. Okay. And what's wrong with her kitchen?

Um she tends to hire uh do a lot of DIY

and like hire handymen who aren't quite handy. And so the last few years

>> uh to to renovate the home in general.

>> Oh, I see. So >> Okay. >> Yeah. And so um you know she's half

funded projects over the years and it's left the kitchen you know with only a subfloor, no cabinets, no countertops.

um is just kind of in a state of disrepair and she is older even though

her health um is pretty great. I worry

about you know her age and food safety,

physical safety in that space.

>> Wow.

Really bad decisions.

>> Yeah. >> Um okay, man. I just appreciate how much you love your mom. That's sweet of you

and uh that you want to take care of her and you don't want her living in a house that's um probably wouldn't pass codes right now. Um

so that's nice of you. Um you do know

you called the show where we'd never tell anybody to borrow money, right? You know you called that show. I I I did and

I'm, you know, I'm trying to the the other part is, you know, I've worked really hard over the last few years um >> to get out of debt. And yeah, and I'm not going to tell you to spend $10,000 on an 80-year-old's kitchen.

>> The math the math doesn't work.

>> Um I mean, if you had a million dollars laying in your account and you want to spend $10,000 on an 80-year-old's kitchen, that's fine. But I wouldn't do that. >> Um >> Okay. >> And and I certainly wouldn't borrow the money to do it under any circumstances.

and I but I do applaud your heart. Now, let's try to fix the problem though.

>> Okay. >> A different way. So, is your mom um in a

good church?

>> Um she I would say she does go to a

church. Um >> good. >> But the church is the place where she has been recommended these people who have like fixed her home. But all >> good. That's even better. That's even better. >> So, here's what I want you to do. I want you to take some pictures of the mess that is her kitchen and I want you to go have a lunch meeting with her pastor

and say some of the jack legs that go to your church have done this and so I'm going to ask since we have an elderly widow over here that you organize a work group of some young men who actually know how to swing a hammer and come over and put her some cabinets in and put a floor down.

I want you to take care of an elderly widow for because she's an elderly widow and she's a member of your church. And I really want you to do it because some of the jack legs that go to your church are the ones that caused the problem in the first place.

>> And I got a feeling you can shame this pastor into getting some work done.

>> Okay? >> Nothing feels better than shaming a pastor.

I'm messing with you. I'm being harsh.

But you see what I'm saying? But I can I tell you this is some of the best advice I've heard you give Dave. I love this idea because you know why it is it's the bluff call. Are y'all going to be who you're supposed to be?

>> You're going to take care of widows and orphans. >> Here you go.

>> You got you got quiet on us, Lynn. Why don't you like that planned? >> I mean the handbook says that's real religion. >> Widows and orphans. >> Yeah, >> that's what it's the handbook says.

>> My mom um she doesn't like accepting help. She's not always the most uh She was going to take a $10,000 loan from you to do a kitchen. That's called help.

>> She didn't ask me necessarily for the loan director. >> I know, but you were you had a plan where she was going to do that. So, let's have a plan where her church supports her cuz her church's jack legs are the ones that mess this up. >> And by the way, this is going to be good practice because over the next 10 years, she's going to need more and more support and care from you and others

>> and others. And you're going to have to get out of the habit of deal debt fixes anything.

>> Mhm. >> Cuz it makes it worse. >> Yeah. >> Cuz I don't want to give you a negative scenario, but I really don't want you paying a loan off after your mom passes

away and you're paying payments on a kitchen that she no longer uses.

That would be really, really negative.

>> Can you imagine writing that check every month?

>> Yeah. And it wouldn't be um it wouldn't be an investment in that sense that I wouldn't. So it would not. Yeah.

>> No, it's not. It's just consumption. And it just you it's just your sweetheart wanting to help your sweet mom. And I I think both of you are sweet ladies and I I don't want her to get messed over anymore.

And I don't want you to mess yourself over trying to be sweet. And so let's not do this. Let's not step up in this trap. I'm real serious.

If I if it was you, if I was you, I'd go have a and I've got the money to write the check, but I I in this case, I think this church has an opportunity to serve.

gets her kitchen put back together and the church gets an opportunity to go help somebody out. That's awesome. And I don't know how we got here, but seriously, if a recommendation came from inside of her congregation and they left an elderly widow in this situation, the pastor really has an opportunity to work with that person on their character.

>> Right. Absolutely. >> U because you just don't want to be on this list of you don't want to be on the list of people messes with kids, widows, and orphans. It's there's several things in the scriptures that are really don't you don't want to be on that list.

Uh you want to be on the list of the people that help those people. That's the list you want to be. The the good it's the naughty list and the good list. I mean, that's this is it.

It's not Santa Claus, but it's God. And so, you know, you know, it's woo woo.

>> That's a you know what I that's a great idea. I hope that happens more and more.

>> Well, you have so many opportunities to do things that way. And um and honestly,

I work with so many churches. I mean, we work with had 50,000 churches have taught 10 million financial peace

congregants um over the last 25 years.

And I know a bazillion churches that

have the funds and have the systems to take care of the

single mom, the widow, the orphan, and they don't always know a way to connect to one. >> Yeah. >> And so just giving them the opportunity, letting them, hey, here's one. And they go, thank you. >> Yeah. and they're ready to go do it.

It's pretty incredible that they're just standing there ready to go. They they're willing, ready, and able. They just don't have the connection >> and because no one wants to raise their hand and say, "Help me." >> And I know a number of young men who are asking, "Hey, where there's no places to serve. Like, I can go to a local soup kitchen or something, but I got to get in line and there's other Man, if you could go to church, >> there's a 25-year-old Bible study group of men at that church, >> show up on a weekend." >> This was their weekend project.

They could put that whole kitchen back together. >> Be amazing. Yeah. >> Yeah.

Then they all walk a little bit taller. >> Everybody wins, boys and girls. This is how this works.

Okay. If you're going to win with money, you have to tell it what to do instead of wondering where it went. If you don't know where all your money went in 2025, that's normal, but normal sucks. We don't want to be normal. Next year can be different. Get a head start by downloading Every Dollar. The app Every

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New and improved. Don't go into the year feeling broke and stressed. Start Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play right now. James is in Rhode Island.

Hi, James.

>> Good. Dave, how are you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, I'm 40-year-old guy. I got a fiance and a baby who turned two in July. and my fiance and I, we have three Airbnbs that are doing really well. Uh, four years into it. Um, last

year we grossed about 102,000. Uh, this

year we're go we're forecasting to do about 127,000 gross on the three Airbnbs

with a 62% profit margin. Day job is

hospitality sales. I make about 100 120,000 a year. She is a psychologist.

She makes about 110. So, our issue is um

there are these microl lofts and another one is available, but it's in a super historic old building and I'm thinking

about getting a fourth Airbnb, but the

banks are telling me that I got to put 40% down and they're going for about two

and a quarter.

So, I want to hear your take if I should

get another profitable Airbnb

and have it under the same roof as all

my other ones, or is that considered maybe too high risk?

>> Okay. Um,

well, I

not sure you called the right show. I'm not sure that you know what we do, but um the uh um so I own several hundred

million in real estate. Okay, I love real estate as an investment.

>> Um I went broke in the real estate business in my 20s if you haven't heard the story. >> And the way I did that was I borrowed too much money >> and um the banks called our notes because we were in a high-risisk scenario. Um the Airbnb business is

basically the hotel business.

>> Mhm. >> Uh it's a very high laborinttense, you know, a lot of hassle. So the money

that you're earning on those Airbnbs, you're working your heiny off to get that money. >> And you're probably working I am >> you're working some other people's heiney off because it's a lot of hassle.

>> I'm the maintenance man. I'm the housekeeper. I'm the guy checking him in. Yep. Yeah. I mean, and you have a two-y old away, so Yep.

>> Yeah. Why don't you pick up golf, too?

Oh my god. You know, I mean, you ain't got time to do nothing. Um, so, uh, I I

don't know that you have the bandwidth to add another one on your personal number one. Number two, the risk with

Airbnbs is that, as you probably know, and I don't know where it stands in Providence, Rhode Island, but many HOAs,

many neighborhoods, u many entire municipalities are passing zoning to stop it >> because they're disruptive to the neighborhood. Um, and so I know a lot of

people that have lost the ability to run an AB Airbnb on a property they bought for an Airbnb and in a historic setting that's very possible, >> right? It's it's in a unique building.

It's the oldest mall in America where there's retail on the first floor and the second and third floor was repurposed to Airbnb. So it is in a commercial zone. >> Okay. So that means the risk of them reszoning it and keeping you from doing it is less >> to my understanding. Yes.

>> Or it's going to take one new tenant downstairs that's a big tenant that says I don't want people living upstairs.

>> Well, we're all on the board.

>> They already got residential in there.

It's just a matter of whether it's nightly rental. >> Okay. >> Residential because it's a hotel in a sense. So I don't know. You're you're doing some things I don't want to do and and I don't recommend people do things I don't want to do. So, number one thing you're doing is you're buying property with someone you're not married to. Very

dangerous. Number two, you're going in debt to do it. Very dangerous. Number

three, you have a high-risk business

model that's dependent upon someone else

called Airbnb. Very dangerous. Number

four, you have to do all the freaking work and you're getting ready to add 25% to the workload going from three to four and you have a two-year-old. Very dangerous. So, that's what I meant by I don't know if you've been around us much. And I'm not trying to be mean to you. Uh I just think I think that all you have seen in this is the upside.

You've not considered any of the downsides. And that's the way I was in my 20s and it's what caused me to go broke. And so now I'm always looking.

I'm not negative thinker. I buy I mean like I said I own hundreds of millions of dollars of real estate. I love real estate but I have low hassle real estate. I don't I don't own a single Airbnb and we've got enough residential I easily could do that. But we don't want to screw with it. It's just too dead much work for the money. Too much drama for the money. And so we'd rather

make the money um you know a little slower and with a lot less hassle factor. And we don't borrow money. 100% of our real estate's paid for. I don't borrow money to buy real estate. So, I'm a fan of the category of real estate,

but after that, I've kind of given you some things to think about. Um, so until

you've thought through all of those things and make sure that you've decided how you're going to own what ownership vehicle you're going to own this in with someone that you're not married to, real dangerous. um you know that that

you get yourself into all kinds of messes here and I think that's what the bank is smelling and that's why they're wanting a huge downstroke. Um but um you

know a a good way to look at any business opportunity too James is to scale it in your mind and if it doesn't scale then don't grow it. Meaning if it

works for 40 Airbnbs we might do four. If it works for four

but not five or not 10, then maybe we

shouldn't do four.

>> Why is that? >> Well, because it's gonna it's the the the idea is not scalable to where you

get out of being the maintenance man.

>> You you you just have to keep absorbing Yeah. >> more work and more work and more work >> and pretty soon you're going to go, I want to quit my job and be Mr. Airbnb, >> right? >> And that's not scary. your one Airbnb app change or one Airbnb

municipality change or your one >> Yeah. >> Apple decides they're not going to support the app anymore. >> That's right. >> With 13 point whatever. Oh my crap. You

know, I mean all kinds of people. I mean it c that c that little move right there cost us about $20 million two years ago.

>> So uh you know that just cuz Apple decided to cough and so um you know all

that stuff. So that these are things you can't anticipate and you leave yourself vulnerable to it when you're just living

right on the wire when you're right on the edge and then you just keep adding to it. Keep adding to the plate till the food falls off, you know. And that's that's what I heard here as a really super busy guy. Well, >> ambitious guy. >> You said this and man, this has become increasingly um

I felt it heavier and heavier. I have a very real lived experience being in the workforce during 2008 2009 and there seems to be a lot of folks who have entered into 2010 to 2025 and it's been seemingly

mostly upside. It's just been win after win after win after win.

>> Plus or minus CO. Yeah. >> And yeah, plus or minus CO. And there's the assumption it's just gonna keep going that way. And there's no

man, it's tough to tell somebody, hey, you have to be prepared for when this thing goes south a little bit or when the roller coaster takes a, you know, goes down. And man, people don't don't have the psychology for it right now.

>> Yeah. I mean, if you've got your thing based on the Airbnb income of four and

suddenly they don't rent for four months, you're in bankruptcy.

Whereas if you own them all in cash, you're annoyed. >> Exactly. >> Or you put or you put renters in. >> Yeah. >> And you get out of the Airbnb business and you move on, you know, and that's it's not a big deal, >> right? >> You know, but yeah, this is it's a problem. Yeah. So, no, I'm um I I I like

James cuz he's ambitious and he's going after it. He's going for it. Um I want to support that, but I I believe in being a nightmare killer, not a dream killer.

Heat. Heat.

Dr. John Deloney Ramsey, personality, best-selling author, and uh, of course, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, which you need to tune in and check out on the Ramsey Networks.

Zachary is with us. He's in St. Louis.

Hi, Zachary. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. I'm doing well. How are you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve, sir. What's up?

Well, I had a question for you. I'm actually a pastor over here at a small town church and I just want to say I very much appreciate all that you do.

Thank you. But one question that's come up for me is I often hear you use the phrase the borrower is slave to the lender. And I definitely agree with that principle in many ways. But then on the other end, I noticed that when it comes to a mortgage, you are okay borrowing in

that instance, which seems almost to betray that principle a little bit. And I guess I was just curious on your reasoning as to why you think it's okay to borrow in that instance, but then when it comes to something like a car, especially for someone like me, I live a little bit in the country where I'm at, so it's a little bit more difficult. A car is almost a requirement. Pastor, that is a wonderful question.

>> Yeah, >> it's a really good question. Of course, you're quoting the scriptures. Proverbs 22:7, the rich rules over the poor and the borrower is slave to the lender. And this is a biblical principle um that we're violating when we say it's okay to

take out a mortgage. And that's your point. And you're you're correct completely on that. Um or when we tell people it's okay to do that. So, are you 26?

>> I'm actually like 31.

I had to think about that for a second. >> Okay, that's okay. Yeah, you lose count around 30. It happens. So,

yeah, I'm on the 34th anniversary of my 30th birthday, but the uh um All right.

The uh uh So, the answer to your

question is it is the only hypocritical

advice we give on this show.

It's the only thing that was hypocritical we give on this show. It's the only thing we tell people it's okay to do that I never do.

I went broke in my 20s as I was a baby Christian. I had just met God and I discovered in that process a guy teaching that what the Bible said about money named Larry Berquette and I said I'm going to follow what the Bible says I'm never borrowing money again. And I've never borrowed money again. I don't borrow money for anything ever for any reason under any circumstances.

Everything else I tell people on the show to do, I do exactly what I say to do. On allowing people to take out a mortgage without me yelling at them. Um, it's the only time that my advice is inconsistent with my life. Does that make sense, >> right?

>> And it's completely completely fair for you to call me out on it and then I'll answer your question. But I wanted to caveat that and say I don't borrow money for anything. And sometimes when I get a question where it's kind of borderline whether they have to borrow or not, I tell them that story. I say, "Hey, I don't borrow for anything." And I recommend that.

That is the best way.

if you follow biblical principles, you're going to in your marriage, your marriage is going to prosper. If you follow biblical principles raising your kids, your kids are going to be amazing.

If you follow biblical principles in your mental health and your emotional state, you're going to prosper. And the same's true in your money and in your leadership. If you're running a church, running a business, same thing's true.

So, I I evangelical, man, I believe if

the Bible says it and you do it, it's a good thing, right? So, I'm with you on that. Um, now, the reason that I lighten

up when someone calls in on that is two

things. One is I can pretty much talk you out of or call you stupid taking out a car loan because cars go down in value, the interest rate is higher, and there's no correlation between buying cars with payments and becoming wealthy.

Very few millionaires will tell you that, oh, the best thing I ever did was agree to borrow on a car because I needed a car because I was out in the country and I was driving a long way and I needed a car. No millionaires told us that when we studied 10,000 of them. So

the fruit is not there. I'm a fruit inspector. Okay. The second thing is

millionaires do tell us that they borrowed to buy a house many times and when they got it paid off they never borrowed money again after that. They're debt averse but not completely mortgage

averse. So the the data is in that millionaires do do that. Even though I would tell you the best way to do it is save up and pay cash for it. It's hard to get people to save up for 10 years to buy a house.

I can get them to save up three years to buy a car >> or to 18 months to buy a car, but I can't I've had trouble doing that. So, I make that violation. But I also often tell people all the time when I say that, uh, you know, no more than a 15-year mortgage, no more than a payment of a fourth of your take-home pay.

And, and then get the stupid house paid off as fast as you can because the shortest distance between where you are and wealth is debt freedom.

And that's consistent across the thing.

But you're exactly right. And but a car is a completely different thing. A car is the largest thing we buy that goes the wrong direction. It goes down in value. And when you finance a car, you're just begging to be middle class the rest of your life financially, mathematically.

>> Well, and most people are stupid enough to like take a car note on like a $30,000 car when they have no money either. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Like everybody listening right now just about.

>> Right. Right. Right. >> You're right.

I I did I I did have one other thing. And by the way, I want to say I I support everything you're doing wholeheartedly, including like I've been using myself many of these steps. Being a small town pastor, you don't get paid a ton of money and you have kids. And >> so I've actually had to use these things for myself.

So again, I want to say thank you.

So as someone who was new, I didn't have any money in my checking account, right?

Because I was using credit cards and then I was paying off those credit cards with the money in my account. So I never really had money in my account and I was in this endless cycle obviously like a lot of people were. So, one thing that I thought just to to consider is that in

those baby steps, I almost thought there should be another baby step about creating a buffer because people need two. They don't just need a $1,000 emergency fund. I thought that was the buffer. Whenever I was new to the Dave Ramsey program and the Dave Ramsey baby steps, but there's also this idea of making sure you have a buffer because you're going to have auto payments on preschool and mortgages and all types of stuff.

So, >> well, that should be part of your budgeting, Zachary. You should plan your you should it's budgeting is cash flow planning.

take more money out of your checking account than you have in it. That's your buffer. And uh you can put a $100 buffer in there if you want, but that's fine.

You don't need any more than that. There's nothing wrong with that. But you don't need a $2,000 buffer because you're uh incompetent at budgeting.

You need to have the budget date dialed in. We're paying the auto payment comes out here. This other payment comes out here. The paycheck planning aspect it's called. And if you use the Every Dollar app, shows you how to do that. And so, you need to plan out every situation there. But, hey, we're honored to have you as a new listener. >> I that is something that that um man, I

that rings home to me because here's what I fell in the trap of doing. My wife and I would make a budget and then we would check our checking account to

see where we were. Mhm.

>> We shouldn't do that because then I would make it I'd be like, "Oh, I can get a little more groceries." >> And then that >> Yeah, because the checking account is not an indicator if you're on your budget. >> That's exactly right. And so then that buffer he's talking about, then all of a sudden the school would pull their tuition on the fourth instead of the fifth. And because I was not following

the budget map we'd laid out, but I was checking the checking account part.

>> You would never A budget map is a plan.

And you would never plan to spend money that you don't have in your account. >> Exactly. Right. Yes. So don't plan to spend money you don't have in your account and your need for a buffer goes away other than a common sense of 50 or 100 bucks or something for slippage or little you know something being off 20 cents or something. You don't want to do that. We don't want to the penny thing but but this concept of slush >> right >> because that covers my lack of detail and sticking to the detail that that's

not you don't need slush. >> That's right. >> That's not good. But yeah and and a lot of people do that. So the trick is the thing that happens is your brain and you and I have been talking about this in a bunch of other areas too. Your brain rew the neuroplasticity your brain rewires itself when you start making every single dollar come out when it's supposed to. Give every dollar of your income a name before the month begins.

You and your spouse spit share spit shake and pinky swear that we're sticking to this contract that we just wrote down. something happens and changes from that chaotic wild man that you were before and you're you're re it takes about 90 days for that rewiring to completely occur and that neuroplasticity. It changes your behavior. It's behavior transformation and so the detail matters in that

situation because you're forcing your brain to work really hard. Yeah, that's what you want. This is the Ramsey Show.

Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 19:21.

Many plans are in a man's heart, but the council of the Lord will stand.

Henry Ford said, "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few ENGAGE IN IT.

WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? I WASN'T.

That's good. I like it. Hey, selling or buying a house in this crazy real estate market right now is a wild thing to do.

You need a pro in your corner if you're going to buy or sell right now. Somebody who has actually done it before a lot.

That is a high octane, high protein, high performance real estate agent. If you want one of those, we have vetted thousands of agents around America. They are endorsed local providers. We call them Ramsey trusted real estate agents.

If you want to find out who we recommend and who we vet and who we coach and who follows the stuff we talk about and is really getting a lot of work done, they're not a beginner, go to ramsysolutions.com/agent and you can find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free. Drew is with us

in Seattle. Hi Drew. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey, good afternoon Dave, Dr. Deloney, thanks for taking the call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Hey, quick question. Well, first off, the Bible verses you guys just spoke that um that was that was really speaking to I think my call. Um but I just had a question for you. Is it possible to be a successful businessman

but to also be a successful family man?

and and I can I can kind of uh refine that a little bit more and give you kind of my background of where I'm coming from. >> What would make you think that is not possible?

>> Well, well, right now I'm working I'm working with my wife um to try to come to a middle ground on on our on our side

business. Um and obviously so I heard

the last caller uh one of the guys was a pilot. I too am a pilot. Um I work for the major airlines. My wife is also a pilot and but a few years ago we started this uh this side business um that's been doing really well. Um and there's there's a lot of potential in it and and

but my we're we're coming to disagreements on if if we should really

be doing the side business. It's a it's a seasonal agricultural business. Um, and for the about two months that we that we operate, we're we're bringing in about 75,000 um, on average. And so, but there's there's a lot of potential for it. But but my wife's argument, because I want to give her side of the story, too, is that she doesn't like that the time it takes away from the family. So, we we've got two months a year.

>> Well, yeah. And I >> What do you What do you have to do on the other um 10 months?

Well, so there's there's a lot of planning and because we've so we've been in business for about four years.

There's, you know, the growing stages. I mean, it it it probably consumes my mind a little bit more than I should, which I've got I've gotten much better at not bringing it up at the dinner table because she's told me she's like, "Okay, I don't I want to hear about it." you know, and so and and I I kind of have this guilt for I'd say for about six months out of the year, you know, leading into the start of the season, you know, it it it's a little bit busier at home for me.

know, between family and because I'm an airline pilot, you know, it takes me away from home, which you know, I mean, that's already kind of uh that's already kind of hard on the family, but >> what do you make as a pilot? Um, well,

right now, yeah, I make about 120,000.

Next year, about 200,000 and then it just keeps going up. I I just started at the major airline. And so, and my wife, she brings in your children.

>> Um, we've got a 15-month-old, a 10-year-old, and then and then one on the way.

And so, my my wife's my wife's argument is we don't need the business. And and I agree with her. Like, it's not it's not needed. But, you know, I listen to the Entree Leadership podcast a lot and I just I have this desire like I love flying. It's something I've done for a long time, but I I get so much

fulfillment and joy out of, you know, running a business and, you know, figuring out solutions and making things better and, you know, I I just I enjoy that. I have a lot of friends that do it and it just it intrigues me. And so, >> what is the business? What are you what are you growing?

>> Um, so what we do is we do bird abatement for agriculture solutions. So people who own vineyards and and u different types of farms, they uh they'll hire us, they'll contract us out and we show up and we it sounds kind of funny, but we use model aircraft and we kind of play cat and mouse with the birds all day. >> And so we have a we have a team um generally about 15 people >> and so and we and we had an opportunity.

We passed up a a large um about a $900,000 contract in Arizona and rightfully so.

>> Yeah. You weren't you weren't prepared to take it on. >> All right. Let me let me tell you let me tell you what I'm hearing >> and let me talk back at you what you told me. >> You have a pregnant wife with a 15-month-old.

>> Mhm. >> Your house is insane.

>> Right. It's it's busy.

>> No, it's insane. I mean, it's it's chaos. >> Yeah. >> There are very small humans taking up

large amounts of calories from both of you. Yeah. >> And you're flying model airplanes at

Birds, >> right? >> Right. And she's over it. She's over it.

She's She's She's got her gut full, man.

So, it's not that a businessman can't be

a good family man. It's that the timing of your side business given the stage of your family sucks.

>> Right. Right. >> You got a lot of crap at home. if she was sitting with two kids in in elementary school >> and and they were somewhat able to dress themselves and go to the bathroom by themselves and stuff like that, right?

>> Then it's a whole different world. I mean, I got I got grandbabies at this stage. When we keep them, it's a dad gum chore.

>> Yeah. >> And I love them. I love them, but it's like work and stuff, >> you know? I mean, well, and so the last two years, so because we, you know, we came up with a compromise and so we started hiring managers and so last year we tried it out. Um, it worked pretty well. And then this year, we pretty much had the managers run the whole operation. And I mean, they did a much better job than I thought it was going to be. And so I I mean, and the thing

about being an airline pilot, it's like I do most of my administrative work, my computer work, like when I'm gone. That's that's one nice thing. It's like I I'm sitting at a hotel. It's like I'm going to get this done. So when I'm when I'm home, I don't have to, you know, I don't have to focus so much. That's not the point. That's not the point, Drew. Drew, your wife is asking one question.

>> Do you love me as much as a side hustle?

>> And I'm going crazy right now. And I need your help.

>> Right. No, I do love my wife.

>> I know you do. I know you do. But >> she's asking you that >> you're trying to show her how much you love her by creating a business and creating extra money and extra margin.

And she is saying, "Do you love me?"

Right. >> And Dave and I are both I mean, you're not going to meet two guys who like working. I think both of us love work.

>> But hear Dave say there's a season to this. It's the winter time and you're like, "Look at these cool shorts I just made." And she's like, "They're great." But it's freezing outside.

>> Yeah. I got a 15-month-old. I got a baby on the way. >> And by the way, all of this spells hormones. Did you know that?

>> Yeah. We've been we've been working through the quite a bit of >> post postpartum. >> Yeah. I mean that's normal. It's not it's not not bad. It's just life.

>> Yeah. She misses you, man. >> Yeah. You need to be there hugging babies, changing diapers, not flying birds.

>> Yeah. >> Not right now.

>> I mean, I want you I want you to run your own business, Drew, but you ask us a question. And the question is, yes, you can be a successful businessman and a family man, but the spouse has to be

able to carry whatever weight that you're not carrying. And you're asking her to carry more than she's willing to carry right now. And I don't think she's being unreasonable. Little babies and a house full of kiddos is chaos >> on top of a $200,000 a year salary. And

>> and she's flying >> and so and her 80 who's saying so about 300 grand they're going to be making next year. And the question that she's asking was question my wife asked, "When is enough enough?" >> Yeah. I In other words, she's saying, "For $75,000 a year, I'd rather have your help. >> I'd rather have you." Yes.

>> I'd rather have your help right now.

>> Right now. >> And and it might not that might I'm telling you, you might be three, four years and you you can either restart this or take back over some of the management. You got to but you got to offload all of it or most of it to be able to

manage your help manage your house right now. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. You're working two full-time jobs and you've got chaos at home.

>> And your wife has a full-time job.

>> Yeah. Oh, by the way. Yeah. Wow.

Three full-time jobs, >> right? >> So, you you're not a bad guy. You're just your timing sucks. >> Yes.

And it's kind of a deceptive question. Yes, you can be a man. Yes, you can run a successful business and be a good family man. You can't do 50 things at once.

>> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 82. Hard Decisions Now Prevent Harder Consequences Later | January 6, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. Jay Washaw, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today and Ramsay personality.

And today is a big deal around Ramsay.

Happy New Year to everybody. And this is also the day that Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is officially here.

>> Here it is. It's here. I'm holding it.

It's real. And uh you can order it and it will be sent to you post haste. Uh it is an incredible book. If you've never ever known what to do with your money but couldn't follow through, it's not a discipline problem. Your emotions are getting in the way. Frustration, fear, shame, all of that shows up in how we handle our money. And Jade, you cover every bit of that here. >> I do. I do in great detail and with much story elements involved. So, it's not a boring read, Dave.

>> No, I I read a book uh over the holidays that had no story >> and I felt like I was back in college.

It was work. >> It's like a lesson. I got it and it was

good. The information was good, but it I had to work at it a little more because there was no humor and there was no story. >> No, when there's story there's one joke in the whole book. >> I need a joke. >> When a story you see yourself in it, you've lived it. You're like, "Oh, yeah.

I've done that before. I've been there before. I know what that feels like." And it it makes it easier to digest and put into action. >> Well, and to go with the stories, of course, is the um the the detailed plan

of how to address that emotions are real. Personal finance is 80% behavior.

It's only 20% head knowledge. The problem with your money is most likely in your mirror.

>> It is in your mirror.

>> It's in my mirror. >> Yes, it's in mine, too. It is in mine,

too. But this book is going to give you It's like a It's a It's very prescriptive, Dave. It's a diagnostic.

So, if you're like, "What is my problem?

What is my log jam?" We are going to figure out what it is together.

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>> Hey. So, I have a question. My husband and I lived in our home for 15 years. We

um we had an interest rate of 2.7%.

Um our mortgage payment was $1,800.

we decided to jump to a different neighborhood because our neighborhood had been changing um a good bit in um

terms of a variety of different things.

Um not going the right direction and we

jumped on a new home on a different house. It's an older home. It needs some work. Um, we now have a almost $4,000 a

month um, mortgage payment, 6% interest rate, and we did not really sit down and

do our homework and the house really doesn't meet our functional needs. you have two people who work um corporate out of the home um every day and we're

missing some functional space. And I kind of freaked out because our other home more than met our needs for long term and um my husband got angry and

basically said, "You need to leave. I'm

so angry with you over this." And um

he's like, "If you don't leave, then I'm going to leave >> about the house." He's angry with you about the house.

>> Yes. >> Cuz it was your idea.

>> Yes. And so then we rented another home

in the area because we're bound to this area for schools for our daughter.

>> Okay. And um so now that's a $2750

like uh rent payment and I still haven't moved in there and I called the lady and she will let me out. So I've only paid

two months and I haven't moved in because I need his help because I can't move a bed etc by myself. And so my

question is how long you been married?

We've been married like almost 23 years

and we have no car loans. We have maybe

$1,000 on a credit card. We have no other debt. We've always been >> But this isn't about This isn't about the debt. It can't be. And it's not about the house. That That may have been

a catalyst. >> We bought a house together. How did it end up being your fault? Mhm.

>> Um I don't know because um I think

because for a long time I had asked to move just because of things that had happened in our original neighborhood

and this this was just a bad choice uh financially. It's the wrong house. We should have just stayed where we were to get our daughter through, you know, her last two years of school. But now we have this mortgage payment that's more and now we have a rent. >> I got all that. I got all that. You know what? I don't give a crap about your house. >> Okay? >> I don't know what Stop stop.

Okay. I don't care about your house. The only thing I want to save is your marriage.

>> Okay. >> Well, I do, too. But >> that's it. That's more important. No, no, no. That's more important than a house.

>> He said, "If you don't leave, I'm leaving." >> Yeah. And so >> So, what do you need is a marriage counselor, right?

Well, we started with one and then we've been paying her and then come um she's out of network but which is fine.

>> What is your household income find out?

>> Um I make like 180 and he makes 250.

>> Okay. Don't talk to me about network and marriage counselors.

Okay. You pay the freaking marriage counselor. It's the first thing you do.

and both of you spend every day with them until you get this figured out.

Because if you don't get your marriage straightened out, you're going to go bankrupt because you guys are making stupid butt choices left and right based on a broken marriage, not based on anything else, >> right? >> So, the sol the solution is a healing in

your relationship and then we together then can decide how we're going to move forward. Um, if you lost the house and

moved into an apartment, both of you together, and the lady with the rent sued you, I'd be okay if it saved your marriage.

>> Well, there's I mean, there's no apartments in the area we live in. We have >> Stop. >> Confined. >> Stop. >> We're confined to an area for >> Quit Quit coming up with this. Okay. My point is that you're putting the house

story at the front of the story. It's at

the back of the story. The front of the story is you and your husband.

If you solve that, you'll find a solution to the other things. There may be some pain involved based on some of the stupid stuff y'all have done lately, but it's very possible.

You left a house that your daughter was in good schools. You can find a house that your daughter was in good schools and you can find something to do. But 23

years worth of marriage and a little girl are at stake, not a stupid house.

I couldn't give a crap less about the house. For that matter, before I worry about your daughter's school, I'm going

to save your marriage. She'll survive

somewhere else. Teenagers do it all the time. pick her little butt up and move her if it saves your marriage.

So, you've got to get these things in the right order here and quit creating these things where you're boxed in.

You're not boxed in. You got choices.

But it starts and ends in the marriage counselor's office right now, today. And yes, you can freaking afford at $300,000 a year.

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Emily is in Cincinnati. Hi Emily. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I work for a large insurance company and they have always offered to give me a corporate credit card and I've always declined and I've paid for company expenses using my debit card and gotten reimbursed. However, my role has changed. I'm going to be accumulating more expenses and I've started asking more questions about the corporate card.

They say that it won't affect my credit.

Um, but I'm just feeling a little conflicted about having a credit card in my wallet. Uh, I don't use credit. um

even if I'm just an authorized user on the corporate account. And so I just kind of wanted to know what your thoughts were on that.

>> What type of card is it?

>> I have no idea. Um >> you don't know if it's an MX. You don't know if it's an MX, do you?

>> I don't. >> Okay. If it's American Express, do not sign it. >> Okay. >> Their agreement will hold you liable.

They are they are sharks.

>> Okay. If it is a standard Visa or

Mastercard, um you're not liable by becoming an authorized user. And technically, it's

not supposed to report on your credit bureau, but often it gets screwed up and

they report on authorized users.

Okay? >> So, if they don't pay the bill on time, it may show up on your credit bureau report. If it ever does, pull your credit bureau report once a year. Everybody ought to do that anyway. and if it ever does, check it and um have

dispute it and have it removed because you're not liable on the card if it's a standard Mastercard unless you sign the bank documents and say I'm liable.

Authorized user does not make you liable.

>> Okay, perfect. Well, that's helpful. I've never used a credit card. I've followed your stuff for years, so I really appreciate it.

>> Well, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. But I I but I I you know be prepared if it's a VA Mastercard or Visa for it to actually pop onto your credit bureau report which I've never really understood but it does happen.

>> Well, let's talk about from the other way. Let's suppose it is a M Ax. What's the conversation that you would have with the employer? >> I wouldn't do it.

I I'm not signing that. >> Mhm. >> Um I might have to figure out some other workaround. They either need to get me a different card or whatever.

But that I have had way too many customers over the years that were in deep stuff because some company went bankrupt >> and then Ammex starts calling them wanting their money. >> And I also wouldn't want to put it on my personal debit card because >> Well, that's a problem. That's a problem, too. If they don't get, you know, if they don't get reimbured, that's a problem, especially if it's starting to be a lot of money like you said.

>> Yeah. That messes with your own cash flow. >> Yeah. You just got to make your choices through all that.

But, um, I'd stay away from an MX corporate card. They are they're bad bad juice.

other's okay. It's not your card. You're not liable for it. You're just using someone. It's like going to dinner with somebody that has a credit card and they bought your dinner. You know, I mean, that's all it is. It's except you can sign for it. That's the only difference.

But um, yeah, you can do that.

Um, and uh, uh, you know, but I suspect

they have that. I guess another workaround could be what we have. We have corporate debit cards.

>> Yeah. So, like you travel, you have a debit card. You have a Ramsey debit card. Okay.

>> And so, uh, we don't ask our people that travel to use their money and get reimbured. We pay for their travel. So, if you're on the road doing a media hit in New York City or something and you're up there doing Fox and that kind of stuff, then the hotel and all that junk, whatever it is, car service is all on us. And, and you know, you just only use it for business things.

You don't you don't go buy yourself something on it, you know. >> Yeah. you still submit your receipts and everything is still it's the same >> same as having a company credit card but there's no possibility of liability >> um cuz you're you are an authorized user but that's that's the same thing >> they could issue that >> if they have MX they could issue a company debit card if they really want to go crazy >> um for her on a Mastercard or a Visa platform and she'd be just fine with that. >> Okay, taking it a level deeper.

goes to this. I agree with everything we're saying. How much does that make her uh does that make her a difficult employee by going to the employer?

>> Her attitude I think her attitude about it is that okay. Yeah.

>> Is what makes her difficult. It's like guys >> I'm just worried about this. Help me.

>> Mhm. >> Instead of like I demand >> there we go. >> You know it's like you know you want to I demand something you can demand somewhere else over here. Okay.

We don't do that. But uh but instead you go hey help me with this. I'm struggling with this. I don't agree with this.

I'm I don't want to be liable and I understand with MX I would be and and you can pull up, by the way, folks, you can pull up the MX thing online. It's not hard to pull it up.

That's >> help me with this and I'm scared.

>> Yes. >> Thing, wow, >> I don't believe in debt. Debt's wrong. Debt's like >> Yeah.

I don't want to be in debt accidentally. >> Uh-huh. Uh-huh. >> Okay.

And just having a credit card kind of creeps me out, but I can do it if this is the way it was done and I'll be okay. M but I just I just want to talk this through and I don't want to be difficult. I don't want to be a problem. Somebody has that conversation once or twice with us on something, we'd be going, "Okay, sure." >> Yeah.

How can you be mad? >> You know, but if uh but if they come back like 17 times, then it start even if they're nice, it starts to be, "Yeah, you're not listening." You know, >> so we're not doing this, you know. So, but that you know, there's a thing somewhere in there. But yeah, I I >> I mean, most employers now again, >> you could be in a toxic work environment.

They could use this against you, but that's not it's not the actual situation that's going to get used against you. It's actually the problem people >> is what's going on there. Aby's in Nashville. Hey, Abby.

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. I just have a question. Um my husband and I were 24. We built our house about a year and a half ago. So, um our only debt is our mortgage. We've followed your stuff since before we were married. And um I just we're kind of on two different pages as far as um paying extra on our house. I am just the mindset of well this is our only debt.

Let's just knock it out as quickly as we can. Um whereas he has a pretty specific

number in his head as far as like liquid in the bank that he would like to keep.

>> Um >> wait a minute wait a minute. I'm sorry.

Liquid in the bank in addition to the emergency fund.

>> Yes. >> Okay. The part where you followed our stuff, you just left.

>> Wait, what? >> I said the part you said you follow our stuff. >> Well, when you say liquid, is it just savings? >> What's $100,000 in a savings account?

>> Um, well, we have we own our own business, so we have a few different accounts. We have like a a business um

checking account, a savings account, and then like a regular checking account where like all of our stuff like daytoday. >> Okay. So, what is the amount he's got in his head?

>> Uh, he doesn't want to get under $100,000.

>> How big is the business? What kind of gross revenue is it doing annually?

>> Um, for the last year we were just under

100. This year we're on track for I'll be real in 2025. Okay. I was talking about 2024 was under 100. 2025 we have

not finished our taxes yet. The first two quarters he was at 120.

>> Okay. G gross revenue.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, $250,000 gross. All right. And what are you going to net on the business, do you think?

>> Honestly, I it I don't I would undershoot it and say

Oh gosh, I don't even know. He is maybeundred and >> Okay, so maybe he's making $100,000 a year. What do you make? >> We'll just say that. Yeah. Oh, I've worked part-time since we had our baby.

So, I'm a cosmetologist. This year I'm on track for like 25 or 30.

>> Your emergency fund should be 3 to 6 months of expenses.

>> Your personal checking account or $3,000

float in there is enough.

>> Okay, that's what we have right now.

>> Okay. In the business itself, in the business itself, >> the most you would ever need >> is 6 months to a year of expenses.

>> Okay. >> And so his number is a little high. His number is a little high. Um, what I would recommend he do is this, and this is what we recommend to the Entree Leadership team that we we we coach about 10,000 small businesses. Okay?

Okay. >> And it's also what we do at Ramsey. We take a percentage of our net profits

each month and add to our retained

earnings, our savings in the business.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And so, let's say you made $10,000 a month and you said, "I'm going to put 10% away." That' be I'm going to put $1,000 in there. If I made 20,000, I'm

going to put 2,000. Whatever it is, I'm going to take a percentage of it.

>> The rest of it I'm bringing home, and

then I get to decide if I want to pay down on my house. >> Mhm. >> But you you need to keep the business savings and and retained earnings separate in your minds from your baby step six. >> That also being said, now's baby step

six is baby step six. It's not baby step two. So you wanting to go hard in the paint as if it were to, you're not fully >> Yeah. >> fair on that either. So some of that money can go towards >> other fun stuff, >> growing the business and other things. Yeah. Exactly.

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Amanda is in Houston, Texas. Hi, Amanda.

How are you?

>> I am also better than I deserve. Thank you. >> Good. How can we help?

So, I'm calling for some guidance on what to do about um some student loans. Uh one of which

my mom took out in my name without me knowing >> who got the use of the money.

>> I don't know. So, that's the other thing I need help with.

>> What's Who's the option? Would it have been for you or for a sibling or for her for a sibling? For >> buy a car with it, go to Europe.

I don't think she bought a car or went to Europe and um she didn't spend it on a sibling, but I'm trying to make sense of the numbers. So, the first loan that I did know about um which for 20,000, >> but I recall that my tuition was only

about 17 for that year.

>> And so there's an extra $3,000. Mhm.

>> Um and I kind of brushed it off thinking, "Oh, maybe she used that for, you know, my living expenses." Well, I learned um right before Christmas that she took out a second $20,000 loan.

And there's no way that my living

expenses were $20,000 for that year. Um

because the only thing she was paying was my rent for a very shabby place that

was shared with 10 girls.

>> Okay. How old is How old are you?

>> Um 23.

>> So when was this all done? Two or three years ago. >> Yes. My Yeah. My last year, which was two years ago. >> Okay. So you're out now out of school and you've got a job, right?

>> Yes. >> What do you make? What do you make? 48

plus a couple thousand extra for stipens. >> Okay. And then there's $40,000 worth two two $20,000 loans that you did not sign for. She fraudulently signed your name.

>> Um the first one I agreed to. So I

wouldn't say that's fraudulent. I It was I didn't want to. >> It is fraudulent, but you agreed to it.

Okay. >> It's just the 3000. You don't know what happened to that 3K. >> If you didn't sign it and someone else signs your name, that's called fraud.

Well, I think I I remember signing something and it was with my school. My >> And your mother did not take the loan out. You did.

>> Yeah. You took it. You just don't know what happened to the 3,000. Tell us about the second $20,000 loan.

>> So, yes, I'm okay. I made peace with the first one. It was against my better judgment, but I've learned that that was my fault and I've been attacking that, killing it. The second one is what has

me upset and angry and confused. And so

that total is 20 just over 21,000

because some interest has occurred. >> Have you seen the promisory note?

Because you can go back and see who signed it.

>> No. So should I ask that company for it?

>> Um well let's stop. Let's go back a minute. I want to go back. I want to go back to Christmas for a second. So how this conversation sound?

>> We have not had a conversation about a word. >> How did you find out about it? because uh my bank like has a credit alert,

credit score alert, and >> it popped up that my credit had gone down. And I didn't even know I had a credit score because I have no other debt. And the first loan is just through my college, which is not a does not take federal money. >> Doesn't matter if it takes federal money. They still report it. >> Still on your credit. >> No, it's not. That one's not showing up.

The one that I knew about was my college. So, >> so it pops up and you found it there.

And you you didn't say anything to your mother?

>> No. >> Why?

>> Because she were not on the best terms.

I feel like she would just lie or cry about it. She kind of lied to my dad about it when I asked him about it. She was like, "Oh, yeah. I wondered about that. I don't know why >> I've been paying it." Well, she hasn't paid a dollar on it. So, if I confronted her, >> is your dad and mom married?

>> No, they've recently divorced, which is kind of what started this all off.

>> I see.

Okay. All right. Well, there's two options.

All right. And neither one of them are pretty. I'm sorry.

Okay. One is uh you get in touch with

the servicing company that's servicing the student loan and you turn it over as

um identity theft.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> That someone stole my identity and opened a student loan in my name and that someone happens to sadly be my mother and I did not sign this debt. You're very sure you did not sign that one, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, that would entail taking out a police report and reporting her to law enforcement for being a criminal

>> because she is, by the way, a criminal.

>> Okay? Stealing money using my taxpayer

dollars. I'm the one freaking paying this. Okay? Pisses me off cuz your

mother's scummy.

She's a criminal. So, you got to put her in that bucket. and then file a police report. The second option is equally as ugly.

Shut up and pay it.

I don't like either one of them. Do you?

>> No, not at all.

>> I'm sorry, but this is what happens, you

know, with this ridiculous student loan program that we have now. So, if you want to dig into it, you can spend a lot of energy and calories and figure out who signed it. but someone signed it.

And you're either going to see your little signature there and you forgot about it, or you're going to see the criminal's signature there that looks suspiciously like your mother's handwriting.

>> And then you get to still make this exact same decision. Either way, you get to make this decision.

Before I reported her to the police, I'd be very, very sure that you didn't sign it, though. >> Yeah. >> But I don't know that they'll put her in jail. I doubt it. I I wish they would

put some people in jail for doing this kind of crap. Particularly people who steal their own children's identity.

>> It's really bad >> for their own personal benefit some kind and then cry about it.

Yeah. I robbed a bank. I'm going to cry about it. I'm so sorry. I don't want to

go to jail. I robbed a bank. Oh my god.

>> I mean, it's true. It's true, Amanda. It sounds like you're kind of used to this type of behavior. >> Yeah. Like your mother's nuts. >> Like this is a pattern. It's not just one event that's taking place. and we're here to tell you that this is really bad. >> I'm so sorry.

I'm sorry that you're having to face this at 23 freaking years old and decide

what you're doing. Um I can tell you this, okay? Um if you want to dig into it, you decide to pay it. Um cuz I got a feeling that's what you're going to do.

Not sure it's what I would do, but I've got a feeling that's what you're going to do. And I'm not judging you either way because neither one of these are good options. I'm telling you that.

again.

Go to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. I'm going to send your butt straight to jail." Now, you'll be a little bit nicer than that, but not much. I was going to say, I don't know if you'd be >> I'm gonna set the table, okay, to where

this never happens again because it's cost you $21,000 to deal with your family dysfunction if you decide to pay it. You don't have to pay it if you didn't sign it. You are not liable for something you didn't sign. >> Your parents do not have power of attorney over you because they bred you.

>> That is not how the legal system works.

Okay? And so unless you have signed a power of attorney, they cannot sign your name. Period.

>> And saying something firm is not mean.

You know what I'm saying? >> I know. But I was being pretty I was being pretty sarcastic and crazy there.

But >> listen, I don't know. I think >> I'm going to be very very clear. Very clear. Very clear. If you ever >> use my name again, >> go to jail. Mom, >> I'm not going to screw around. You do.

You stay away from me.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You got to lay down the >> This $21,000 is going to cost you. Yeah,

>> I wish they would try it. Wow, that's different. >> See, the ones that get me to are the I mean, people with 12 years old, they took out a credit card on a 12-y old.

>> Yes. $20,000 on a 12-year-old ruining.

You got to haul your butt to jail for doing that >> and just sit it over there.

>> Just sit over there in the jail. That's where you ought to be cuz you're stealing money and you're using your own child to do it. What a scumber.

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Cynthia is with us in Atlanta. Hi, Cynthia. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yeah, I make $94,000 before taxes. >> Good for you. What do you do?

>> I'm a engine builder for the military.

>> Very cool. Good for you. Good. Good. So, you're in the military or you just work civilian for the military? >> I work at I work in another place and I

just only do military engines and

>> Cool. Okay. Good. How can we help?

>> Um, I'm like $32,000 in debt.

>> Mhm.

>> And I got my home is paid for and I got

a paid for Jeep Wrangler, but I bought

another car just to drive back and forth to work to save money. But I got like a

lot of zip, Afterpay, PayPal. You know

how you just don't want to spend your money. Mhm. >> And I got a personal loan and I just want to know what's the fastest way because at my job I'm already doing like 16% in my 401k.

>> Mhm.

>> So I I have a feeling do you have a stack of money saved somewhere? Do you have money saved?

>> I I did but I don't know more cuz after

my son passed away I just went on a spending spree.

>> And when did he pass away?

2018.

>> Okay. >> So, you said you've got a bunch of >> So, did you borrow money for the car that was cheaper in quotes?

>> Well, I got like a $7,000 car loan. I left owing $7,000 on it now. I Everything is current, but it's just like I'm throwing my money away. I don't know where my money go.

>> Half of the time I be like, >> I make good money. >> Yeah, you do make good money. You make way too much money. Be this broken out of control. Yes. >> But your heart But your heart was broken.

>> Yeah. I'm out of control, babe. I need help. >> Okay. >> Because I buy like500 $600 worth of clothes a week. >> Oh, wow. Yeah. >> Yeah. My My dad used to say that half of solving a problem is realizing there is one. Cynthia, I think you realized it.

>> Yeah. >> Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired yet?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Enough to change?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Cuz I think you can. You make enough money to straighten this out as soon as we straighten you out, right?

>> Yeah. >> Have you looked at how much it is when you combine it all together? All the the buy now pay laters and the personal loans, all that. How much is it?

>> Yeah. Like um I got I I got them wrote

down in a tablet at home. Mhm.

>> And so I got like I came over y'all came

I saw y'all like on New Year's the day

before New Year's >> and I just went to write down everything that I had. >> Good. >> And I was like I'm going to get my life together. >> Good. Good. >> And >> I won't go I went I came to the store to

return some stuff. >> Okay. >> And I was like just put the money back on my debit card. And um my friend said,

"This the first time I ever seen you go in the store and come out without nothing in your hands." I said, "I'm on a budget. I can't do it no more." >> Okay. So, you created Did you create a budget or are you just saying you're on a budget? >> No, I created a budget.

>> Good. Yeah.

>> Did you do it on every dollar?

>> I That's where I did it at.

>> Great. >> All right. >> What did you find? Did you did you find Tell us what you found. >> That I was like having like I got $3,600

like um into debt, but I have like

$2,200 left. And I was like, "Where that money at?" And >> okay, >> my friend was like, "Look on the floor.

You got shoes stacked up to the ceiling.

You don't even put on your feet. Look in your closet. You wear your clothes one time and give them away." >> That's a friend. That's a true friend to tell you the truth. So you got $2,000 of margin every single month and it's just going to >> crap >> crap basically. >> Yeah. And so >> and did I hear you say it's only $3,600 of debt? >> No. 32,000. >> No, I got $32,000 but like when I pay my stuff off a month

>> I have like that left. But I increased I

was at work.

>> You're not married, right?

>> No. >> Okay. What I want you to do is I want you to keep this Every Dollar app. And I want you to give your friend access to the Every Dollar app to be your accountability partner. >> Yes. Cuz she's a good friend. >> And tell her to bust you if you don't do

anything except get out of debt. No

buying nothing. Cynthia, you have enough crap to last you for the rest of your life. >> Yes. If you if you don't do anything except pay rent, work, eat, keep the

lights on, you can be out of debt in no time. >> Well, you don't even have rent to pay. >> Pay for That's right. That's Oh, come I forgot that. >> So, how much you when you look at your budget, how much can you put towards debt every single month? How much extra?

>> Well, I had Well, I got like a $10,000 check coming on tomorrow.

>> Okay, great. And so I said that I was going to take that and start well I got my $1,000 um >> emergency fund >> and then I said with that $10,000 I was going to take that cuz I got like $2,000 of back home taxes and I need to just go on and pay that $2,000

>> and then just go on and start paying all my credit cards off the smallest to the Lord. >> That's right. That's right. So, the other 8,000 goes to that. And then if you just continue to take I think I heard you say you had $2,000 in margin every month. If you take that, I mean, you're going to be done with this by the end of the year.

>> That what I wanted to hear. Okay.

>> Or sooner. >> Or sooner. If you get intense about it, cuz something tells me you do have more margin. >> Shoes and purses. Why don't you put them on eBay?

>> That's what somebody else said. Instead of giving them away. >> Yeah, cuz it's brand new basically.

>> Yeah. Let's put them on eBay. People buy this stuff, man. They'll pay big money for it. Yeah, cuz she's this is not uh this >> not cheap stuff. This girl buys good stuff. I can tell. Yeah, >> I think there's a name brand laying there in your floor. >> Oh, yeah. Put that on Poshmark. Put that Put that on the nice places.

>> Okay. Posh Poshmark is eBay. What?

>> Poshmark. Yeah. This where you get the nice high-end stuff. >> Oh, used. Yeah. >> Okay, cool. All right. There you go.

See, I don't know this because I don't do that, but Yeah. Good. Very good. Hey, Cynthia, >> I think you already had a pretty good plan before you called us.

Okay. >> You were working the stuff we teach exactly the way we teach. Everything we asked you, you answered the way we would have told you to do it. I'm very impressed with you.

>> Thank you. >> Okay. Now, do it. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Be, you know, act like your friend's standing in your back pocket and say, "No screwing around. Time to be a grown-up. >> No buying stuff. Don't be walking. Don't even go in a store. Drunks don't need to go in a bar." >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, just stay out of the store.

You don't need to go there and don't get on some website unless you're selling something. >> All you need to do is sell stuff and work. >> Can I give her my book yet? Can I give her my book?

Absolutely. You're the prime candidate cuz your emotions are were were driving you and this will just help you stay motivated even more going into the new year. Um, so Christians back there, he'll pick up and and give it to you. I think you're the first first person I've given this book.

>> That's good. Very good. Hey, and Cynthia, listen. Here's the deal.

spending mistakes, >> that doesn't make you a bad person. It just means that your heart was hurting.

>> You're okay. You're okay.

But don't live but don't live the rest of your life this way for for your sake.

Okay.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. But you didn't do a bad thing. You just you just heart was broken. Okay.

>> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. Just go on and now let's go win.

Mhm. >> Let's get get this mess straightened up.

And in his memory, um, instead of having

a pile of shoes, let's have a pile of money >> and get this thing worked out.

>> Y, >> that's a different change on that. Yeah.

>> Cuz I got to tell you, the number of times that um, >> emotions, just like your book, >> activate >> and and sometimes it's a broken heart.

Yes. >> Um, grieving. >> Yes. >> The loss of a loved one, the loss of a

relationship, the loss of a job.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And uh it sometimes it takes people a while depending on the uh severity and the weirdness of the situation. Takes longer than others.

But the good, you know, the good news is something happened >> around New Year's for Cynthia >> clicked into place >> and she woke up and thank God something popped up on Instagram and it was us instead of one of these goobers >> that are just telling, you know, Sofi telling you go in debt or something, right? >> And she did everything. She'd already started doing it all. >> Yeah.

>> It's very very good.

>> Take those moments and run with them.

>> Amen. I call that a God moment is what I call it. >> Well done, Cynthia. You call us back anytime, honey. We're here to help you.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Wshaw, number one best-selling author, Ramsay Personality, is my co-host today.

Her new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is out. It's official. You

can get it now. We've been pre-selling it back through Christmas and everything. And now we are here and rocking and it's going out the door. There's a stack of them on the table a minute ago. She's signing them over here, getting them ready to go out to folks. >> All kinds of good things happening.

Jamie is in Tennessee. Hi, Jamie. How are you? >> I'm doing good. How are you doing?

better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes. Uh just to make my question, I guess shorter. Um what I'm asking is should debt keep me from getting married. Um so I am currently on baby step number three. Me and my boyfriend have been dating for about a year, couple months now, and we are very serious about um marriage. Um he

unfortunately does have about $8,000 in debt. And as we're talking about a wedding and engagement and all these things, we're just trying to make sure that we're making a good financial decision. >> Um, so just trying to hear y'all's opinion on that. >> Yeah, I definitely would not say that debt should keep you from getting married.

However, going forward, there are some things that you can do to position yourself better. number one, making sure you're having a conversation about >> not just the debt and the the the current financial situation for both of you, but how you see yourselves going forward in the marriage to to start getting on the same page if you're not already. So, >> okay, >> what does that look? Have you had that conversation of, hey, when we get married, here's the way I view debt.

How do you view debt? Here's what I think I'd like to focus on.

Have you had those conversations?

>> Yes, we have. Um, and I will say, um,

this past year has been a tough year for him cuz he had an injury and then ended up losing his job. So, those conversations were easier before all of that happened. And since all of that has happened, I'm which I understand he's become a little bit more reserved and didn't doesn't want to talk about it as much. But I guess from my perspective, I'm like, well, I need to make sure that we're entering into this on the same page any time.

>> Very wise. How old are you?

I am 28. >> Good. Very good. Okay. >> He's probably feeling some type of way.

You know, when you've lost your job, his confidence is not quite right. Um, and so it's probably defensiveness.

>> But as far as the answer to your question, you're right on track, Jamie.

You'd have to be aligned. And here's why. The data tells us that the number one cause of divorce is money fights and

money problems. And if we know that going in, then we need to what? Avoid

money fights. >> Correct. and money problems. And what's that mean? It means we need to be aligned, which was the word you used.

Okay. It's a good word, Jamie. Very good word. And so, we need to be in agreement about how we're going to handle our money. So, the fact that he has some debt doesn't bother me. If he thinks every time there's a bump in the road, >> every time we hit a pothole, every time things are stressful, we're going to go into debt. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

We're going to find another we're going to find another solution. Okay? or or that we're going to shut down and not talk about it if we hit a hard time, which is kind of what you're experiencing now. >> Yeah. So, we need to get aligned. And, you know, I the other thing we found is there's another piece of data I saw the other day that said those that do indepth uh like a month or two, several meetings

of in-depth pre-marriage counseling have

a very high probability of a successful marriage. Does not end divorce. >> Okay? because good marriage counseling will cause the divorce before the marriage happens.

>> Okay? >> It'll cause you to split up if you can't get on the same page. >> And so going deep and going hard on that that that would dig out all of this and be on the same page. And one other thing just to throw in there, it's in the same data set that's out there floating around that we've been observing for about 30 years. And you're very wise.

The way you're talking about this is proper. Okay. You got a very good balanced handle on it. And um >> thank you. the uh is if you can agree on

four things before you're married in depth, your marriage is almost guaranteed to make it. And that's money, that's kids, how many to have, and who, you know, who's going to run the house, whether the inmates are going to run the asylum or not, right? And uh it's uh

in-laws, how we going to deal with the crazies on the outside of the house that are kin to us. Okay? And religion.

And if you're agreed on all four of those in depth, you almost always will

make it.

>> Okay. Can I also ask um Dave, I guess from a male's perspective as well, um how do I go about having these conversations with him right now? Um >> just like that. Just like that. data say data says that when if we can be in agreement on the handling of our money and that's going to require us talking about it then u then we're going to have

a great marriage.

The data says that and I want to align with that so that we can talk about setting a date and let's get this done.

I'm ready, man. And no, $8,000 is not a

reason to not marry the guy. I don't ever want to talk to you about money the rest of my life. Shut up. That's a good reason to not marry a guy.

I'm too lazy to work. That's a good reason to not marry a guy. Um, I intend to buy a new car every year and stay in debt the rest of our lives and you hate debt. That's a good reason to not marry a guy because you're going to be miserable, right?

>> Yeah, that that is a guy thing in a lot of in a lot of cases, but it also is a thing to figure out now. and and you will and you will figure it out. It's just figuring it out. >> Yeah.

I I think but you're asking the right questions. But no, we have never told someone to not get married because of debt. We have told people not to get married because of what was going on that caused the debt, >> right? Behavior, >> the character, the behavior, the whatever is going on.

>> But it's not just Dave Ramsey hates debt and you can't get married because Dave Ramsey said you can't get married. has never happened here ever in 40 years of doing this show and nor will it.

>> All right, Jake is with us in Baltimore.

Hey Jake, what's up?

>> Hey Dave. Um, God is good. Um, I hope you're doing well. How can we help?

>> Um, yeah. So, I'm 26. I'm married. We're

debtree. So, praise God for that. Um, >> my wife and I both work right now. Um, and we want to buy a home that we can comfortably afford on my income alone.

Um, since our plan is for her to stay home in the future, um, while we build a family, Lord willing. >> What do you make? >> Um, but in my area, it seems like pricing homes is so high. Um, I make

75,000. Um, yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, Baltimore is an expensive market, dude.

>> Um, >> I know. What do you do for a living? So the reason that we want to stay around, >> I'm not saying you can't stay. I'm just saying you got to decide what's going to happen here. Okay? We want to buy a home

>> on my income, but there are no homes in my area that we can buy on my income.

>> Mhm. That leaves you two choices.

>> Get your income up or be in another area. >> Or do something dumb and buy something more more expensive than you can afford.

>> Well, or buy something where she's planned to work. Mhm. >> You know, lots of people do that and you just, you know, we don't What's What does she make?

>> Um, she makes about the same as me. So, together we make about 150 or so.

>> Okay. So, you and you can afford a house there. Okay. >> Well, I like that you're thinking ahead cuz a lot of people don't do that.

>> Agreed. >> And I I love that you're thinking that way of here's here's what we our desired future for this. So, that's very very smart. But I agree with Dave. You're going to have to decide, am I is there a pathway for me to earn more money so I can save up this down payment and buy this home the right way or do we have to

look at looking out of town and what does that mean? >> Yeah. Are we going to be or are we going to say we're going to buy a house instead of be at home? >> Mhm. Yeah. That also that's an option, too. >> That that's the three variables involved. You're cutting your income in half. You want to stay in an area and then there's house prices. Yep. So, you got to work on one of those three variables. Got to move. Or two of them.

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So, our last caller talking about affordability on homes reminded me of something. Um, I look at Instagram about

once in a blue moon and I happen to look down somehow in my feed. Who knows how that that stuff happens. Somebody over there does, but it's not me. Um, a guy

is posting typical Tik Tok type thing on

there. It was Instagram in this case.

>> Um, it said, "I wish we could live like this today." And it said 1957.

>> And it shows a gentleman standing in front of a home with uh blue jeans on and rolled up cuffs. >> Mhm. uh a little girl and a wife in a

dress >> and a a car sitting in the driveway

>> in front of their home. He said, "This guy's a Ford factory worker, >> and he can afford a home, a car, and uh

on a factory salary, and his wife can stay home with a kid." >> Mhm.

>> And I thought to myself, h how are you not looking at this picture? This is an 800 square foot

house, track housing in Detroit.

>> I'm looking at the house.

>> It's clapboard. It's not got a brick on it. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> It's just cheaply built.

>> Uhhuh. >> It's got one bath.

>> Yes. >> No microwave.

>> Yes. >> Um, it has no pulsetting showers or jacuzzi's or skylights.

>> There are no raetball courts in the neighborhood, and there are certainly any pickle ball courts in the neighborhood. Uh there's not a place to plug in your Tesla.

>> Uh the new car in your driveway is one car, >> not two a boat and three >> seedos.

>> Not six drones and a trampoline in the backyard. >> Mhm. >> The yard is the size of most of you

listening's house.

>> Yes. >> It's 18 acres.

>> Mhm. >> It's called track housing. You can look it up. Okay. They built them in tracks just as fast as they could build them down through there to fill the factory workers to to give them housing so they could get the factories open and running. Henry Ford did it just like he built Model T's off the uh assembly

line. He built these houses off this to do the same thing. >> It's not just Ford. Everybody did it. I mean, all the factories Alcoa, Tennessee, same thing for Alcoa.

>> Same thing happened in the exact same time. But you know, if if we asked someone that's posting that to live in that house and

drive that car, which by the way had no air conditioning. >> Yeah. >> Would have been straight shift. There were certainly no airbags. There was no disc brakes. The the car was um you know

a n drive a 1957 car sometime people.

They don't make them like they used to.

Thank god. >> Yes. That >> it's basically a lawnmower.

>> Uhhuh. We have lawnmowers that are fancier than that car now.

>> He was po he he he he was trying to make a point but he did it in a a not very smart way. >> And now the point he was making was inaccurate is my point. >> Yeah. He he he he got too dram he went

too dramatic cuz does well to your point. >> No his he was trying to say you can't do this today. Well that's right. You can't do that >> and you wouldn't want to do that.

>> You would you would not do this today if we offered it to you. You wouldn't do it. you would say, "Oh, the American dream is broken. You want me to live in a tiny house?" >> What he should have said, which is true, is gosh, it's it's taking me longer than

I thought to say for the house that I want, and it feels way harder than I thought it was going to be. >> Yeah. And the master bedroom or the one I want's larger than this house.

>> Yes. Well, that's why I say the house I want because that is true.

>> I forever. It's taking people longer and it's more frustrating and that's okay to say but don't but to your point over dramatizing it that's not going to help you either. >> It well and to say that something's broken. It's not broken. It's different.

>> It's different. It is different.

>> It's a different thing. And so there there's two or three things. One is you've got to adjust like we told the gentleman a minute ago some of your variables. >> Yes. >> And say, "Okay, maybe mom's not at home if you want to live in an area you can't afford." You know, when I turned 18 years old, >> I could not when I turned 24 years old, I could not afford to live in Manhattan.

>> I could not afford to live in most areas of Los Angeles. >> Mhm. >> And that's in early 1980s.

>> Understood. Yes. >> Okay. Uh because I didn't make enough.

>> Yes. Understood. Yes.

>> And so I have to look at that and go, I can't. The math doesn't math as Jade says, right? Yes. >> And so that's the thing. one. But the other thing is this, the um the thing that has screwed a lot of I think the millennials and the u gen z's have had a

um I think they've gotten a bad rap. And um and we are not saying and I am not saying that they're whiners. Okay, they gotten a bad rap for being whiners. What I am saying is this. You're pointing at stuff like an 800 foot house. That's inaccurate. >> Number one. Number two, you can't point at that. Now, our last caller was not subject to this. I got to set that aside one more time. But most of the time when someone's bitching about affordability,

>> they've got a $1,200 car payment, a $200,000 student loan, >> and the car come, you know, Ford has screwed them. They got a $80,000 F-150.

>> That's true. >> And their their pockets are full of Samuel L. Jackson >> saying, "What's in your wallet?" >> Right. >> I was wondering where you WERE GOING WITH THAT and now I got it. Thank you.

Yes. >> What's in your wallet? >> Yes. >> What's in your wallet? Well, record credit card debt on those two generations. These large banks >> have screwed these two generations and convinced them that they have to have >> what's in your wallet to exist.

>> Hint, boys and girls, let me tell you what's in Samuel Jackson's wallet. A little wagon behind him pulling all the money he made from them commercials selling you crap.

>> That's what's in his wallet.

>> And it's unbelievable. Same thing with the guy the the the Capital One guy or whatever it is. He does not >> he does not live in the bank. I just if you didn't know >> he doesn't really live there. Okay.

>> Yes. >> It's just this is unbelievable y'all. So these companies, car companies, you know, 20% of the cars that left the lot last month were over $1,000 a month car payments.

If you do that and you have record credit card debt and you have record student loan debt, of course you can't afford a house >> because you got screwed. >> That's true. >> You got screwed by higher education. A stupid Congress keeps making these loans. >> You got screwed by Capital One. Yes. You got screwed by Ford and Lexus credit >> cuz you got to have a car. You have I have to have a nice car. I have to have something safe for my children. Oh, you're killing me. and and okay, I'm I'm

I'm gonna stand right. I'mma stand with you and I'm also gonna stand on the other side because there's that none of that's helping you, right? If you have if you have >> you cannot buy a house with that and you never have been able to buy a house >> and you never have. Yes. And then there's also the side of it >> record levels. >> There's also the side of it where you look at it, you go, "Okay, uh 415 is the

is the median." So even if you're like, "Hey, I'm going to be on the conservative side. I'm looking at like 375, right? I'm I'm going to spend around 375. If you make $90,000, which

is over over >> average >> over average over median, uh over average, not over median, uh you're still going to have because of interest rates and because you're still going to have to put down way more than the 20, you know, than the the the 10%.

>> Yeah. But here's the thing. >> The percentage that we would say 45,000 up against it. Yeah. But you're But that's not first-time home buyers.

415,000 is not first- time home buyers.

415,000 is the median of all homes for sale, including including mine.

>> Yeah. Everything to everything considered. >> So, if you take first-time home buyers, you talk to the 34 year olds that stand on this stage and say, "I'm debtree. I just paid off my house." >> How'd you do that? >> I I live in a town where 275,000 or

200,000 buys a lot of house.

>> A lot of house. Yes. and I make 60

$70,000 a year, $80,000 a year. And I bought a house for $200 and some thousand dollar >> and I worked my butt off and I paid it off. >> Um, and it is not fancy.

>> Yes. >> And the town is not fancy.

>> Yes. >> And the car they're driving is not fancy. >> And so, you know, but so if if you don't Yes. You cannot on an average income, you not cannot buy a median price house.

>> You can't. >> That is true. By the way, I don't think it's ever been true. >> It's not been true. I'm simply saying that there both sides of it are true. If you get to the point like the guy in your Instagram thing where you're over dramatizing it, then you're never going to find the solution. >> Right. >> That's my point is we can acknowledge >> and that's really kind of what your book is about. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> But debt is certainly not helping you.

>> So don't get screwed by these big companies and set your sights on a

firsttime home purchase.

>> Yes. Not a median home price purchase.

>> And it might take you longer than you thought. That's okay, too. It took Sam and I, and it's in the book, 10 years, Dave, before we bought our first house.

>> Ooh, that's distressing.

>> So, that's why I get to say that. >> You want me to wait 10 years?

>> Well, you got to do what you got to do to be able to afford it.

>> There's my point.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

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Ari is in Washington DC. Hi Ari, how are

you?

>> I'm good Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yeah. So, I just had a couple of changes with my income in the past like 14 days

and it's all coming down on me at once.

So, I'm trying to figure that out on top of the fact that I don't think my uh job is going to be the best fit for me moving forward. So, under >> So, what was the change in your what was the change in your income?

So, I was originally making

about 4500

uh a month, but on top of my hours being

cut back down to normal, taking away my overtime uh because it was short staff and now there's not it's not short staff. Uh so, they cut the hours plus I signed up for the family insurance to cover the family. So, that's taken a lot out now.

So, >> so what's your income down to?

>> So, my income is down to about

uh 3,774.

>> What do you do? >> Uh monthly. So, right now I am a uh

banker.

>> A banker?

>> Yeah. >> You like work in the branch?

>> Yes, I do. I work in the branch as a uh

as a uh teller.

>> Okay. >> Oh, okay. You're a teller. >> And it's you and your family of how many? >> Um, it's my wife and my uh staff son.

>> Okay. >> And what does she what does she make?

>> Um, she doesn't make anything right now.

Uh, she just finished a uh CNA program

in DC. So, so she's waiting to hear back

for the clinicals part >> and then she'll start uh applying for jobs there. Meanwhile, she just had an interview today at a uh bar down the street. So, she's going to try and do either serving or bartending. So, meanwhile, we just been doing a door dash to keep things going.

>> Okay. And does the door dash fill the gap to get you back to the 44500 you were used to?

>> Uh, no.

Um, and >> we lost you. You're going to speak into your phone, son.

>> Okay. Yes, sir. Can you hear me now?

>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Okay. So, yeah, part of the part of the reason was uh I was getting 1,100 as

well from the uh a vocational kind of

military educational benefit.

>> Oh, okay. >> But I uh failed one of the classes. So,

>> they uh haven't paid the next term.

>> So, I found that out like about a week ago. So, kind of sort everything out.

>> So, you're used to $5,600 a month and now you're down to 37 >> thereabout. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. And uh >> how did you fail the class?

>> I it was I just was trying to do too

much because I was doing the job and then I had Uber. I was doing Uber and everything but then the registration came due uh like this week actually.

So >> yeah, but I mean you knew you were failing the class. Why don't you quit the Uber and pass the class? It's 1,100 bucks a month.

That's more than >> Yeah. And it was just it was just it was just not poor kind of poor time management I think to be honest.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I think it was. Yeah. >> Tell us about your living situation. Are you are you renting and or do you own something? How and how much do you pay a month? >> Uh we're renting and it's about it's about it honestly been going up the last three months but this month it was uh 2,000. >> Oo yeah. This tight.

>> Okay. So 100% of everything we're

talking about is income problems

and I understand how we got to every one

of the different pieces of it now. Thank you for giving us the clarity on that.

And so the answer is going to be 100% fix on the income side.

>> And I don't know exactly what that is for you right now, but your answer is as

you know, figure if you figure out if you can get the military to give you a wager and restart the class and go

retake that class and maybe you can get

a um you know, a pass on that one and

and get, you know, give get them to give you a little grace and see if they'll do that. see if they have a program for a review on that and get that going again.

And this time pass the freaking class, of course. Never do that again. Um, and then the second thing is what are you going to do to create income cuz it sounds like you need a new job, dude.

Doesn't it? >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I am looking at at

different things. Um, I was thinking about going into security for the meantime. The ultimate goal, ironically enough, is that I go into into the financial sector.

>> I I hope it's not technology.

>> He said financial sector. >> Okay. Yeah. Speak into the >> You keep dropping the phone or something. I don't know. >> All right. So, yeah, you've got to create income. Ari >> got to She does too. Both of you together have to do this.

>> Yeah. And and it's not I mean, the first thing you do is get enough money to eat and keep the lights on. And that's bartending and Uber and those kinds of things, but those are not long-term fixes. It's not a life.

You can't do that forever. >> That's not your way of life. Side hustle is not a way of life. And so what we want to do then is create a a career path that's going to take you both.

Get that CNA stuff past. Get that that income will be a lot more than bartending. >> She's got she's her path is there.

>> Got to get there as fast as we possibly can. We don't want to stub our toe on that. And then you've got to figure out exactly where you're going and what your steps are to get there. >> So we're going to send you Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do.

It has in it an assessment. I recommend you take that. Um, but you need to get very laser focused on where you're going and exactly what the steps are to get there because you cannot wallow in this. You do not have the mathematical time.

You've got to move forward. Alex is in Baltimore.

Alex. How are you?

>> Good afternoon, Dave. Good afternoon, Jay. Congrats on your new book.

>> Thank you. Uh so my question is my wife and I have been married for uh 18 years. Uh we have two teenage children and I recently started a new job where I am getting paid about 60% more than my last job.

>> Yay. >> That's awesome.

>> Thank you. Thank you. What are you doing? So I'm >> Well, uh I actually I I am running a

small trade association.

>> Cool. And what are you being paid?

>> Uh 300K.

>> Way to go. Way to go, dude. Congratulations.

>> Thank you. So, um really what I'm doing right now is um looking for advice uh from you both on how I can pay off um our remaining debt in order to and words that you've used before. Dave, level up.

>> There you go. Good stuff. Well, you know, we're going to walk you right through the baby steps. It sounds like you know them. Where are you? Uh at this

point, you know, it uh I have um I put

aside the thousand uh as you recommended and I'm targeting now the debts that we have, but I'm debating on and one of the questions I have is should I be targeting based on the avalanche method or the snowball method?

>> How long you been listening to us?

>> Uh listening reading for, you know, a little bit of time. Okay. >> You got to know you got >> 100% of the time we stay away from the avalanche method. We go with the snowball. And the reason is very simple.

The probability of completion is much higher when you get feedback.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> And probability of completion on the avalanche is very low. Most people don't complete it. Avalanche is highest interest rate to smallest. I was asking interest rate highest interest rate to smallest. People say it's mathematically correct. It's not actually mathematically correct when you add in probability of completion, >> which is a math factor. Okay.

>> And so, um, snowball simple. How much debt have you got? Not counting your house.

>> Uh, not counting the house. Um, that's easy. It's about uh it's about 90k >> on what?

>> Uh, admittedly 11 of it is um student

loans and the rest is consumer debt in a consolidated loan.

>> One loan?

>> Yes, sir. >> Wow. >> Was it cars in there?

>> No, sir. We don't have any car payments.

We haven't had a car payment in about 17 years. >> So, you just put everything on credit card then? Oh my god. Uh without getting

into the gory details, we had to make some decisions. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But you're used to living on 140, right?

>> Uh a little bit more than that. Yeah. My

math might not be mathing as as you said, but >> that's all right. But you said you got a 60% increase. So let's just pretend it was only 50%. >> And you put it all on the debt. >> Yeah. There you go. You're done in a year.

>> Okay. >> You're going to feel it cuz you're not going to be living the life you think you should should be living at 300,000.

Woohoo! Oh crap. >> Yeah, >> I got a raise. Oh crap. I don't get to use any of it. I got to clean up the mess from my past.

>> Been there.

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And that'll help you free up more money and work the plan faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step. Start every dollar for free. Download it in the App Store or Google Play. Chuck is with us in Montana. Hi, Chuck. How are you? Montana, California. That's different. What's up, Chuck? How are you? >> Hey, Chuck. Uh Dave, doing better than I

deserve. How are you, sir? >> Just the same. How can we help?

>> Hey, um just want to thank you for your book, The Total Money Makeover. My mom gave that to me.

It seems like almost 20 years ago now, but uh really pulled me out of a lot of

debt and bad financial decisions. Well, so today I'm I'm 40 years old. Um

engaged to be married in a couple of months. >> Good.

>> And um it's my mom and I in my house. Um

I owe another uh 140 left on the house.

Um I I have a sizable um cash savings.

What I want to do my my or so I'm we're

going through marriage counseling. Uh the elder in our church is really pushing us to live alone for at least

the first year.

Um >> I like your elder.

>> Me too.

>> Uh mom doesn't have anywhere to go.

She's retired.

So, this was my plan and and you could tell me how stupid I am, but um to use

the cash I have to buy another home and

my mom has enough she gets enough retirement to maintain the current home.

>> Is she Is she ill?

>> No. >> How old is >> How old is she?

>> She is 67.

Does she not have any money?

>> She she just has um

her her union pension and then social security total. >> That's about 2,200 a month.

>> And the house, did you guys buy it together or is it totally your name? You pay for everything?

>> It's all mine. >> Okay.

>> What do you make of it your own?

Um, it it's a range, but my my base pay is 150, but it could it swings wildly up

to about 180.

>> And your fiance your fiance makes what?

>> Uh, about 72,000 a year.

>> Okay.

Um,

okay. Number one, your elder is correct.

You do not need to be having a brand new marriage with your mom in the house. She's 67 years old. She's not a She's not 88 years old. She's not an Alzheimer's patient. She's not She just needs to have a life. Okay. Be good for her. Be good for you. And it'll certainly be good for your relationship.

Good. Good counsel. I like your counsel.

Okay. Agree. >> That's number one. And so then how do And that's your you're in agreement. You're not arguing about that. So your question is how do we get there most logically?

>> Um all right. So So there's two things.

There's one is how do we solve the short term and then two is what is what what is a plan that is sustainable

because likely if she's in good health in ' 67 um I mean we probably have a 20

year or a 30-year time horizon here for her right I >> I understand yes >> and so what is it we're going to put in place that she can sustain her life

during that period of time and then you get to have a life and you love her, you want to take care of her, but um but she doesn't have to come under your roof ever necessarily.

>> And I don't think that you have the funds to float two Yeah.

>> two homes. >> Yeah. You have the income to float her help her float an apartment for herself.

>> Uhhuh. >> And um the two of you either live in this house or you sell it and buy a home that the two of you want. The two of you being your fiance, not your mother. And um but I think some autonomy for her would give her more dignity and you um as

well. Uh it's going to be super healthy for your relationship with your fiance, your mar your wife. Um and uh

yeah, you have to do that. And so uh but

no, I would not I would not buy today.

I would just rent her something and if you need to help her >> with the rent, >> fine. Now, if you did that and she moved to a nice, >> you know, a nice one-bedroom condo that you rented for her, that's just out of pocket for the rent. That's not much money. >> Okay, comparatively >> versus buying a home, okay, for cash.

Now, would you all then live in this house, Chuck, or would you all sell this house?

>> No. Um my my my mom would live out her

days in the current home and and >> we're suggesting suggested moving her out.

>> Oh well so so the elder was saying that

try to do a year where it's just you you and the wife and then if if

circumstances change and mom has to move back in that might be okay. It's not

optimal but we we just we need that one year alone. Yeah. That's that's bare minimum is what he's saying. And what we're suggesting is >> don't buy a house for one year.

>> Yeah. And and if you can and if you can

live as a couple indefinitely, you should live as a couple indefinitely >> is what I'm is what I'm saying.

>> Like I said, that the the house is worth 550. I owe 140 on it. I I currently have

saved up 130. If your mom was in a

one-bedroom nice apartment that you were helping her rent instead of in this house, >> would you and your fiance stay in this house?

>> Yes. >> Okay, let's talk about doing that.

That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. That's what I would do. >> She's not sick. There's nothing that you need to be there to take care of her.

So, if you can She's got a whole life.

She got 65. Okay, come on.

>> Listen. Yes. And you've got to >> Okay, here's what I'm thinking, Dave.

>> I'm thinking I'd get a job >> and you got to get >> 67. >> Yeah. And and but but Chuck, you got to separate from your mom is what I'm saying, buddy. >> That's all. Otherwise, that's going to cause problems with the wifey, the new wife. >> You need physical separation and emotional separation. Y'all have been you're 40 years old. You're just getting married. There's nothing evil about this, but the the this is um your your

elder is giving you very good relational counsel. >> Mhm. >> Except the part of a year minimum. It's >> I would I would just say separate period. >> Yeah. >> And then but your your fiance knows at some point maybe you'll have to take care of your mom. Maybe you have to take care of her mom. >> Yeah. Maybe. You never know. Yes.

>> We don't know what's coming up. But that's for better, for worse. That's for rich or for poor. That's for in-laws in the basement for and all that. Yeah.

>> And so um Yeah.

So, but that I I'm not going to plan to

be right back here in 18 months. No, that's scared. No, I >> if if that Listen, if that was uh if she

if your fiance was calling me, I'd tell her not to marry you >> 100%. >> Unless you had a plan for mom to stay gone. >> What? Yes. If she called in and said, "My fiance >> wants to have my his mom move back in in 18 months," I would say, "Nah, >> that's a pass." Hard pass.

>> Uhhuh. We would. >> Yeah. I think your elders being very sweet to you, but also giving you good advice.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Very nice. So, anyway, we're going to be a little tougher.

We're going to be a little tougher on you, buddy. >> And it doesn't mean you don't love your mom. It just means that this is the design is for you to go off and start your life. >> Let me just tell you, the chances of Rachel Cruz letting me move in with them at any point in my me breathing me breathing.

The only chance I move in with them is in an earn in an earn on the on the on the mantle. That's the only way I'm moving in with Rachel. I'm just saying. >> And even still, you're in the laundry room.

You're in the You're in the You're in the pool house. >> I'm in the pool house. Rocking the pool house.

>> Oh boy. Oh boy.

>> No, it's not happening. The Ram the Ramsies have pretty firm boundaries on this stuff. I'm just saying. >> That's very good.

>> We love each other at a distance.

>> Yes. Wow. Yes.

>> Oh, Chuck, I think you got good people in your life, son. and you got a sweetheart >> and you're a good man and you've done a good job taking care of your mom and the By the way, she's only 67. It'd be awesome if she went and had a thing called a life is the new 47. >> Yeah, I promise you. I'm looking at it in the mirror.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Wshaw, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, is my co-host today. Her

new book, Lands on the Street. Today, it's out. What no one tells you about money, the key to getting unstuck from

someone who's been there, done that, and got the yellow t-shirt. There it is.

Love it. Open phones here at 88825-5225.

Blake is in Rochester, New York. Hey Blake, how are you?

>> Hey, Dave. Uh, I'm excited, but I'm also a little nervous and a little scared right now. Uh, so I just wanted to get your feedback. >> We'll give it a shot. How can we help, brother? >> All right. So, about 6 months ago, I bought a car in cash. Um, and about two

days ago, the engine blew up.

>> Oh, no. >> I don't have a car right now. I spent $10,000 on the car, and I can sell it

for about $1,000 right now.

>> What's What kind of car is this?

>> It's a Chevy Malibu. Mhm.

>> What happened to the engine?

>> Uh, there's a cracked piston in it. So,

>> Wow. >> That's the That's the issue. Yep.

>> Yeah. How many miles did it have on it when you bought it? >> It had 109,000 miles on it.

>> Wow. That's unusual.

>> Yep. Yeah. It's just It's unfortunate.

That's That's the situation.

>> Yeah. So, you have any money?

>> I have about $5,000 in cash.

>> Excellent. Fix the car. Fix the car.

Well, >> you don't sell a $10,000 car for $1,000

when it needs all it needs is a used engine in it. >> Yeah. What will that cost? >> You go to a salvage yard and buy an engine. A used engine. >> So, I have a couple buddies that are mechanics. The used engine is going to cost between 1,500 and 2,000. And the labor is going to cost about >> $2 to $3,000.

>> That's a bit heavy. But yeah, but I mean my question is, do I spend like 60 70% of the car's value

then? >> Yes. >> Mix it up. >> Yes. Here's why. Okay. If you sell it for $1,000 now, you take a $9,000 loss.

If you put $6,000 into it plus the

1,000, that's $7,000. You could turn around and sell it the next day for $10,000.

I I think I could only sell it for about 65,000 if it had nothing wrong with it because I've it has 130,000 miles on it.

I I drive a lot now.

>> I don't I don't think a $10,000 car lost 35% of its value in the period of time

we're talking about with the miles we're talking about. >> Is there anything else aside from this is a very very used car.

>> Okay. It's not lost that much in value.

And besides that, you're still talking about you would at least get your money back. You know, you'd at least get out of it. And so, no, I I I I think you can

get more for it than the repairs. I think you got to work on your repair cost. Get your repair cost as low as you can possibly get it. And labor and in the engine. The engine didn't sound wrong to me. The labor did sound wrong.

Um, and so, uh, because what you got to do is you got to do this on the cheap. It's a cheap freaking car. So, we're not certainly, you know, you're not going to the dealer and putting a $15,000 engine in the thing. And so, u So, we're going to fix it. And then the only question is, do we keep it?

>> Okay.

>> You got $5,000, so you can fix the thing. I mean, you got the money to fix it. And uh and you got to you have to you don't have a choice. Otherwise, you're going to get destroyed here. And um and you may have a really serviceable car. Um, what what do you happen to know

what the engine is?

>> Yeah, it's a it's a turbo engine.

Four-cylinder. >> A four. Okay. Yeah, but the Malibu will hold a six or an eight, won't it?

>> Uh, there's not a lot of space. I mean, you I don't know. It would It would be tough to put a six or eight in there.

>> Okay. I I I'm not seeing that model in my head very clearly, obviously. Okay.

So anyway, yeah, if I put a four back in it, then that may be an engine that that

uh you know, a little four-cylinder that's cheaply built. If that's the version of Malibu we're dealing with here, then uh then it may be something you fix and get rid of. Okay.

>> Okay. >> But um I I would try to buy something that has um if I'm spending $10,000 that

has a lot more life than a worn out four

cylinder engine on 110,000 mi. Okay.

Now, again, that depends on the vehicle and what we're dealing with here. But,

uh, but you know, you need to research and say, okay, what percentage of four-cylinder Maliboos are blowing a a dad gun piston? And that now I'm

thinking, okay, see, I've got old Malibu in my head. I'm old. >> That's my problem. I'm thinking of an old, but that's a different car. So, um, okay. Anyway, yeah, you I'm still going to fix this as cheap as possible cuz I think you can sell it for more than the cost of the repairs plus the salvage in this case, even if you turn around and sell it and buy something different.

Then in the future, you're going to pay cash for something that has a lot of

life left in it.

>> Okay? And um I'll use an example. A

$10,000 Honda Accord would have a lot of life

left in it regardless of how many cylinders it has. Okay.

>> Um a $10,000 Dodge Neon might not.

>> Nothing. >> Okay. Like I would not do that ever. So

um as an example, so you got to kind of think through, you know, how well, you know, h how many of the old version of this car do we see on the highway?

>> That's what I do. >> Toyota Camry, you know, I mean that's what we're dealing with here. and uh pickup trucks, you know, that kind of stuff. What is it that you see around?

>> Then you know it's got some longevity to it. >> It's got, you know, when you're buying a $10,000 car, cuz all you're buying is transportation. We're not buying sex appeal or fancy. >> Yeah. >> We're just trying to get there. That's all. >> Yeah. Don't buy a >> So, >> Malibu or a Jeep Compass.

>> Yeah. O, please don't do that. Yeah.

Apparently, don't buy a Malibu. Yeah.

>> Don't buy a Mercury Mystique.

>> Whoa.

The worst. >> Did you do that? I I I didn't I Listen, I'm dumb. I've done dumb things. Not >> I'm glad you didn't You didn't do the mystique. >> The mistake. >> The mistake. The Mercury mistake. Yeah.

Wow. I remember those. That's That was a long time ago. >> Y >> Wow. So, okay. Let's talk about that for a second, guys. So, here's the thing.

That is not a way of life that we would

sign you up for. >> Yes. Yes, I'm glad you said >> that is a step on the journey of life. Okay? And the

step is I'm going to drive like no one else so that later I can drive like no one else. >> I'm going to wear clothing like no one else so that later I can wear clothing like no one else. I'm going to vacation not at all so that later I can vacation like no one else. I'm going to go to restaurants not at all so later I can go to restaurants like no one else. It's not a way of living. It's a sprint to

get your butt out of the land of broke.

>> Yeah. Motivating you to go faster.

>> When you buy a car

that is just a get-around car or worse than his car, a hooptie, >> you buy the $2,000 hooptie.

>> So Joe that works here, you know Joe?

>> Yeah. >> When it was a point when Joe was working here, not this Joe, different Joe. uh that Joe was going to drop me off at the car dealership to pick up my car. It was being serviced. >> Okay. >> He pulls around front and a Ford 1994

Granada. >> Oh. Oh god.

>> Land yacht.

>> Oh wow. >> It originally had been red, but now it was slightly more like pink.

>> Pink. Oh.

>> I got in the thing. The interior was pristine. He bought it from his grandmother for $700.

It had 20,000 miles on it.

>> She only drove it on Sundays. >> Had 20,000 miles on it. He drove this

horrible car. >> Wow. >> For a period of time so that now Joe drives whatever Joe wants to drive. >> He does. Yes. >> And as well he should.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsay trusted agents

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That's rammissysolutions.com/

Caleb is in Jackson, Mississippi. Hi, Caleb. How are you >> doing? Great. How are y'all? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> All right. Well, I've got a two-part question here. The first part is I'm getting married in two months.

>> Congratulations. >> So, thank you. Uh me and my future wife

are asking about specific joint accounts

we should be putting together. And then the second part, she is currently in vet school and so we're racking on about $120,000 of student loan debt. So, how should we go about attacking that now?

>> Okay. Is she just starting it or she's finishing up?

>> She is just starting her second semester. So, she has three and a half years left. >> So, you're planning to go into debt on this versus trying to avoid going into debt on this.

>> Uh, currently, yes.

>> Okay. We're going to come back and talk about that. Let's talk about the the accounts that you're talking about combining.

>> That was your first question, correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you need you need a checking account that you're both paid into. Both of your monies come into there. That's the account that you do all your business out of. You pay your bills out of it. You get the groceries out of it.

It's connected to your every dollar account. You need that. You're probably going to need uh sooner than later a

high yield savings account where you would keep your $1,000 emergency fund or where you would keep your 3 to 6 months of expenses. Um something along those lines is going to be what you need. And that's really the main few things that's you started. >> It's all you need. We have one checking account in my home. >> Yeah. I don't have but one checking counter at home. >> That's it.

>> And that that's really it. Um further along you might do some other things, but right now that's really it. Uh I want to come back and talk about these student loans because if I can keep you from going into $120,000 of debt, I want to do that. >> Are you already 120 in or you think you're going to go 120 in?

I so we get about it's about four 30

grand a year and so we're on track to I

think it will be around that by the time it's over. Um but I'm currently in some freelance work. So I'm trying to figure out how to up my income so that we can tackle that while ours are still low.

>> So what is your career sir?

>> I am in sports broadcasting.

>> Okay. And what do you make?

Uh, right now it varies depending on how

many games there are. Um, but around the

two to 4 thousand a month, but I do have about four days a week they're open. So, I'm currently looking for another thing to actually make this more of a career, not just a hobby. >> Right. I'm glad you realize right now it's kind of a part-time hobby.

>> Yeah. Good. Okay. And how old are you?

>> I'm 23. >> Cool. And do you have a four-year degree?

I do. I have a bachelor's of business administration. >> Okay. All right. Let's go get a business

thing moving. And the sports broadcasting be a side hustle. Um because obviously the games are very seldom if ever during the day. Okay. The weekday. And so let's go get like a job in other words. And uh get your household income up considerably. And then I bet you could come close to if you guys lived on beans and rice, come close to cash flowing vet school, right?

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. I think that's the plan rather than plan to go into debt and develop a strategy on how to deal with this debt that I'm planning to go in.

>> Instead, let's plan not to go into it.

>> How old is she?

>> She's 22. >> 22. >> Okay. Well, um I mean, commend her for

being in vet school. Number one, there's very few people that make it into vet school and make it out of vet school that are not smart people. It's a very very rigorous um uh curriculum. It's

very tough, you know, to be, >> you know, versus a medical doctor has to learn one body and one set of anatomy and so on. U you know, vets have to learn a bunch of them. I mean, it's crazy. And so, uh, and they make really, really good money out the backside of this, uh, potentially usually, um,

corporate has kind of invaded that space, and it's not as good as it used to be, but, uh, I've known vetinarians who made a lot more than doctors over the years, uh, MDs, and so, um, you

know, I I think it's a great field of study, but what I'm going to do if I'm the two of you is I'm going to figure out a way to live on nothing, make a pile of money, and cash flow this puppy.

>> I agree. >> And that's exactly how I would get at this. Hey, and we'll set you up on every dollar as our wedding gift to you guys.

Uh, and get it get you set up free on it so you can get going. And the two of you sit down, do that budget, and follow that stuff process. But man, if I'm you, I'm leaning in hard on the career side of things. And I'm going to continue to work the side hustle because that's the dream is to go that way. >> Yes. >> Um, but I've been in broadcasting for 40 years and I know a lot of sports broadcasters that don't make a living.

Wow. >> They don't make a living if they're local. Okay. I mean, national guys, national gals that you know, they make a living. And a few of the folks, you know, your local television station, maybe that guy or gal makes a living.

Okay? But, um, broadcasting local high school games, you don't make a living.

Broadcasting small town college games, you don't make a living. Okay? Uh, that that's a side gig. And so until you get that break up into a whole another level and either end up on your local television station or some kind of a situation where you're able to, you know, actually monetize your sports knowledge.

>> Um it may take a while. And so in the meantime, I'm going to go make some money and pay cash for my wife's vet school. And if you're a person uh similar to Caleb and you're kind of on

this crest of I see debt in the future,

but we haven't done it yet. You don't ha you don't have to go down the path, right? Maybe may if you're listening right now and your cars just broke down and you're thinking, I got to go to the dealership and get a new car. You don't have to do that. You don't have to put

the repair for your refrigerator on the credit card. You don't have to take out the student loan. You can stop for a minute and think, >> "What else could I do? >> What else could I do?" You're not >> if debt was not an option, what would I do?

>> And that's the way you need to think of it. And then you start to become a lot more creative. And you start to realize you probably have more time than you're giving yourself credit for it. It may not be as urgent as it feels.

It may feel very urgent, but when you stop and think about it, maybe there's some time there that you can take to seek out some other options. So that's just for somebody who's who's listening in their car right now or or or sitting on the couch listening to this thinking about going to take out debt to solve a problem. >> You know that that is a valid thing.

money. >> Yeah. No more. And so since I don't borrow money, it never occurs to me to

fix a an opportunity that's in front of me with debt >> or a disaster that's in front of me with debt. >> And I I so I will never be able to say the words I was forced to go into debt cuz I just >> we're just the car's just going to be in the driveway broken.

>> Refrigerator. We're just going to get some ice and a cooler I guess >> because we can't do that. We don't borrow money. >> And so what are we going to do? I mean, I remember when Sharon and I were coming out of bankruptcy and we were so broke we couldn't pay attention. I mean, we had nothing. We had just filed bankruptcy and the stinking roof on the house starts leaking.

>> And worse than leaking, it's going through the light fixture over the

kitchen table. >> Oh, yeah. >> And so, water coming through electricity. >> This is like a fire hazard, right?

>> And it's dripping on our kitchen table to remind us it's like you're a failure.

You're a failure. You're a failure.

you're a failure dripping on my kitchen table and I feel shame like nobody's business because I've just gone through bankruptcy, right? And I'm like and I can't afford to put a roof on the house. I don't owe any money.

>> So, and I don't borrow money >> and nobody would have loan me money anyway. I just got out of bankruptcy, right? >> Somebody would have probably, but I'm not that. I mean, I was just done. So, all I did I just went down to the hardware store and got some of that uh black tar stuff. >> Mhm. >> And I mean, just looked like white trash. I just went up and poured it on top of the house.

do whatever you have to do to make it work. >> It stopped it stopped leaking. >> Yeah. >> And then when we put a roof on the house about a year later, I made a little bit of money and I got to where I could breathe, you know, >> and I put a roof on the house.

The the the roofer's like, what happened to your roof? Who did that? And I'm like, I'm not even talk about any not even going to talk about it. Just shovel that stuff off of there and put a roof on it, buddy.

That's just how it works. That's the way it goes down. >> Yes. And and you have to, you know, we teach the baby steps, but the first you have, if you don't mentally walk yourself through this step, I you're missing out.

You have to decide, I am not borrowing money anymore.

I don't steal cars. I don't, you know, whatever that moral decision or whatever, I don't borrow money. It's just a way of life. >> I don't burn villages. >> I don't plunder. Yeah. I don't borrow money.

When you're stuck in a cycle with your money, try, fail, try again. It can feel like you're losing your mind, but you're not alone. And you're not crazy. That's why I wrote my brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money. It turns out money is emotional, and no one's been talking about feelings like fear, shame, or guilt keeping you stuck until now.

I'm going to tell you about the real fight and show you how to win. Get your copy today at ramseysolutions.com/store.

That's ramseyolutions.com/store.

Dale is in Greenville, South Carolina.

Hi, Dale. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. Happy New Year to you all. >> Happy New Year. How can we help?

>> So, uh, I got a job offer. Um, I'm a

paramedic. I got a job offer. It is a contract position on a year-to-year basis with a three-year pro projection.

Um, and I'm having a really hard time deciding if I should take that or stick with my current employer.

>> Is it also in paramedic?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you're staying in the same field. The only question is you're going to go contract. Now, when you go contract, do you lose all your benefits?

>> I will lose my benefits with my current employer. I will get benefits on the contract position.

>> However, uh they're not as good.

>> Okay. And and what are you being paid now?

>> Uh currently, well, I work uh the the

hours I don't work 40-hour work weeks. I work average 56-hour work weeks. Uh and I'm about 85 a year.

>> Um this job would be um about average

42. It's 84 hours a week, but one week

on, one week off. And so, uh, it's about

95 96 a year.

>> Okay. All right. So, it's a better quality of life.

>> Yes. >> And it's more money?

>> It is. >> Okay. Uh, is there anything wrong with the um culture of the organization that

you're thinking about joining, the municipality or whatever it is?

No, not not to my knowledge. Um, they're good people. From what I've heard, it's >> from from what I know, it's it's a legit position. And um >> Why would you not do that? >> Yeah. What's the downside that you >> just the stability? Is that the only downside? >> The the stability. Yes. Um,

>> so the likelihood of them not renewing your contract at the end of three years would be that they didn't need paramedics or you screwed up Christmas

>> there. Yes, that would be the

likelihood. Yeah. >> The the other downside is um their 401k

is like retirement benefit stuff like that isn't uh nearly as good as my current employer and I'm 36. I got

>> You'll be okay though. You have it available to you and you're going to make 16. You're going to make more money and you've got more time off.

>> So you would do what a lot of people do in your world and that's start a side hustle on those off weeks, right?

>> I could. Yes. >> I know a lot. I mean, you're not going to sit on your butt five days a week, are you?

>> No, I would just spend time with the kids cuz I work 3,300 hours for the year of 2025. And >> yeah, but I'm talking about this other thing is is an average number of hours.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And so, um, >> no, I I would I would still do something.

>> Yeah. I would have a side I mean, I know a guy that's a fireman that, uh, he made 80,000 bucks last year on the side gig, >> you know, building decks. He has a deck building business, you know, and he just he has people he subs it out to and he runs the jobs and goes over there when he's off work. And, you know, they're doing 72 on is what they're doing.

But, um, but same kind of thing. You got a lot of downtime. And so, uh, that's what I would do.

how long has the other Why do they have a contract? Why don't they have just Why aren't they just hiring paramedics? Any idea? because it it's a um on-site

medical for a new construction >> for your projected construction.

>> So, so what happens if the construction if the construction runs out, you'd be out of a job?

>> Correct. >> Will they assign you elsewhere >> when the place is built? I'm sorry.

>> Will they assign you to another site or is it just over over >> it? That one would be over. However, if

there's something around, I could

pick something else up. Um, if I felt

like traveling, which I'm not going to because I got kids and >> that defeats the whole purpose. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, what do you think the what do you think the buildout is on this thing?

>> Like, how long is it going to be? >> Yeah. When are they going to be done?

>> Uh, three years.

>> Oh, so you're out of a job in three years.

I for that one I would be yes and I mean

I could find another job pretty quick.

Uh the the difference would be you know

what's the pay going to be like?

>> My question is the people that are contracting you for this job, do they contract you for other jobs as well or it's just that on that?

>> Um they could contract me for other jobs. I've never worked for them before though. >> Interesting. I'd want to find that out and I'd want to if you know anybody who's worked with them, I'd want to know, have they ever contracted you for other jobs or has it just been one thing and that's that.

I I would want to know more about that because >> I got to I got to know where I'm going to land. If I want to do this, I got to know where I'm going to land in three years. >> They they can absolutely uh contract me for another job. It's a matter of location.

>> I know.

>> I got to I got to see that other otherwise this is a three and done.

Three and done. This take it takes all the fun out of this.

>> I would not do it for three and done.

But three and done and I got a pl

likelihood of finding something within a 40 mile radius. Okay, good. I'm going with that. Oh, that that's not that's not a problem. Finding another job in a 40 mile radius is not a problem. Um, it

may not be with them, but finding another position wouldn't be hard.

>> Okay. So, there's a shortage of paramedics in your area.

>> Absolutely. Yes. >> Okay. >> Did Can I ask you a quick question? Did this job find you or did you seek it out? Like, were you saying, "Man, I got to get out of my current gig >> and you found this or how did it happen?" >> Almost a little bit of both. Um, I was kind of looking at something else or trying to find what other something else that I might be able to do. Um, and I

did not find this one. A recruiter called me. >> Understood. >> All right. If you are fe if you feel really good that you can land somewhere else in a reasonable 85 to 90 range or

above at the end of three years that is tolerable without having to lose your life again or having to move your family

then this is a good deal. If you don't feel good about that then this is not a good deal. That's the way it comes down to. >> I agree after all of this this all this round the barn twice. That's really what this comes down to.

>> All right. Uh Frank's in Daytona Beach, Florida. Hi Frank. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Glad that I glad to get on the

show. How are you? >> Honored to have you, sir. How can we help? >> Thank you. Yes, sir. Uh my wife and I

been married 46 great years and we both

work for large corporations.

Uh her for 28 years, me for 38. Uh

without changing anything and uh pretty boring life, but we pulled it off. We raised three beautiful kids who are very successful.

One of the issues that I have is that um

I have a nest egg of about $3 million including a $500,000 house that's paid for. No bills, no debt. My question is,

uh my daughter lives a few blocks away from us. My sons have moved away.

They're working in their own occupations. And what I want to know is, is there any way without taking a big

tax uh hit to get my money out of my IRA

and stay below the Irma and uh federal

income tax brackets? I try to stay below the 24 uh% bracket. Um cuz I'd like the

gift of the house, but I would also like to get another house. A house that my wife and I would see the end of our uh lives in probably.

>> When you pull the money out of the 401k, you've already analyzed what you're going to face there. >> You're going to have to keep it under the brackets and under Irma. And if you do that, you're going to minimize the taxes, but it's all taxable. As far as gifting the house goes, you can gift her the house. If you move out of this one, give her that house and you buy another one for cash. Um, you can do that for

zero taxes with uh the unified estate

tax credit. You can listen to that later on the podcast. Unified estate tax credit. You and your wife have $15 million each of federal estate tax

exemption in the year 2026. You can use

some of that against the gift tax and

not have to pay gift tax on giving her the half million dollar house with a unified estate tax credit. You have to fill out a form, not a big deal, and put an appraisal with it on the house. And then you've used up some of your $15 million each that you have by giving her that half million. And that that one's easy. The the IRA, that one's tough. So,

you can see your tax attorney to figure that out or whoever does your taxes, if they're really good with taxes, they'll be able to do that in their sleep

everywhere. Everywhere you turn right now, you're being told a lie about money that you can't get ahead, that you can't survive without debt. And those lies are keeping you broke. Don't buy into it.

Yes, there's a lot of noise and chaos and confusion out there. But there's also hope. The truth is, you have more

control than you think. This year, it's time to take back your hard-earned money

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and Jade Warshaw will show you how to go from chaos to clarity with your money.

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Our

scripture of the day, James 1:22. Do not merely listen to the word and so deceive

yourselves. Do what it says. Simon Synynic says, "Communication is not about saying what we think. Communication is about ensuring others hear what we mean." Our question of the

day is brought to you by Why Rei. When it feels like your private student loans have buried your future, YFI can help dig you out with low fixed rate refinancing and a clear path forward. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Not in all states. >> Okay. Today's question comes from Taylor in Washington. They say, "We have our emergency fund and have started paying off our car and our credit card debt, selling anything off that we're not using or that's taking up space.

We have two children under six. And I keep having to explain to them why we're not making trips to the Dollar Tree anymore, weekly trips to the Dollar Tree. My oldest noticed that I'm selling things and offered to let me sell some of her prized possessions because she thinks we need the money.

were going through tough times with little kids, did you have an open discussion with them about what was going on? And if so, how did you have that conversation? Uh, you know, I might toss this to Dave a little bit because for me and Sam, it was just us. We didn't have little kids. Uh, it was us going through it. And nowadays,

if I were teaching that lesson, and I feel like it's still something that you're ongoingly, you know, talking about, for us, it really is just number one, hey, every time we go out of the house, we don't have to buy something. Like, that's just kind of an ongoing thing. They don't expect to buy something every time we go out of the house. Um, and then in my house, Dave, we're just really big on personal responsibility, period. So, we have not had to address

it in the way that she's having to address it. Um, but I I mean,

immediately my mind goes to what Rachel Cruz says, which is share, don't scare.

>> Share what's going on. You know, we're selling the things we don't need. We're um you know, we're making good decisions with our money, not if we don't make this money, this payment, we're all going to be out on the streets, right? Like, you don't need to go to certain extremes that they can't understand anyway. six, you know, four and three and two-year-olds, they don't understand it anyway.

>> Exactly. It would sound more like this.

It would be, "Honey, it's so sweet that you would want to sell one of your things to help." >> Mhm. >> And thanks for being part of the family and wanting to chip in like that. But I don't want you to have to do that. This is something your dad and I are doing >> because we've realized that we had been doing some things wrong and we're starting to undo them.

We're selling some stuff off. We're cleaning up some debt. We're managing our money more carefully. And so we're not spending as much as we used to and we're selling off some old things.

>> Everything's fine. >> Uh it's just a change >> and don't let the change disturb you. Uh but we're not going to be going to the dollar store as much because we're trying to do this. And no, you don't need to sell off your stuff. I'm selling off mine >> and your stuff's not your stuff's okay.

And the family's fine.

>> Yeah. Like you said, share, don't scare off. >> And it's just it's your tone. And

the weird the weird thing is with little ones and I was just spent the week with ours with our grandkids.

Less is more. >> They move on very quickly >> in conversations. Like we want to go like get all philosophical and give them a seven minute diet tribe on it. And they wanted one sentence answers.

>> Uhhuh. So they can move on. >> Yeah. They really have something else to do. They're busy little people. I'm just saying >> they do. Oh boy. Yeah.

>> Isn't that the truth? I mean they just quick. I mean, I forget how short their attention span is. So, it's just, you

know, your tone, honey. Dad and I are changing some things. We We have been spending too much and we're going to spend a little less and that includes the dollar store stuff, but and we're selling off some stuff, but you're fine and family's fine. Matter of fact, we're going to be absolutely great because we're doing these things.

And so, it's a time to celebrate in a sense. >> And they usually completely change the subject. Can I have a snack? Yes.

And move on. >> Don't use the word snack.

fish. Yeah. All right. Here we go. Ann

is in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Ann. How are you?

>> Oh my gosh. Happy New Year, Papa Dave.

>> Happy New Year. What's up?

>> Is there going to be a baby step 5B with the new Trump accounts? >> No.

>> Are you sure?

Money. >> It's not that much money.

Oh, but family can put in $5,000.

>> The family can put in $5,000 into a 529.

>> Yes. But this one can be a 529 and a

Roth IRA.

>> It can be anything education.

>> Yeah. Family can family can help with all that. No, I wouldn't I wouldn't use that. I would not be doing be doing any of this. Um I'm a I'm a fan of some of

the things the president is doing. Uh, I'm not a fan of some of the things the president is doing. Um, and I I think this is a political stunt. I I really I'm not we're not doing any We're not No, we're not changing for this. It's not It's not that big a deal. You've got other ways to save it. It's not as revolutionary as the original Roth was.

It's not as revolutionary as the 529 is.

Um, it's none of those things. And

but it it's a, you know, it's a way that somehow we can $1,000, you know, and that kind of thing. And yeah, yeah, you can add to it and family can add to it, but I just um it it's just spreading

around of money to get people's attention to a political office.

>> I agree with that. >> And um I I personally wouldn't do it. Um I wouldn't fool with it. I don't think it's worth the trouble. If it was worth if you could do a lot with it, it'd be one thing, but >> no, I appreciate the question though.

It's very interesting. Yeah, I looked at them and I kind of yawned.

>> I don't think I don't think it's as big of a deal as people are making it out.

And I would agree with you. It's just kind of like a It's like a squirrel that you can chase. Squirrel. Yeah. And it's it's like a money squirrel. >> Yeah. Yeah. Some something flashy to get your eye off of something else. >> Yeah. I agree. Um Yeah. There's worse

things you could do, but there's also better things you could do. >> Oh, it wouldn't It's not horrible. It's just not It's kind of like the Acorns app. >> Exactly. >> I can put in my spare change

>> into an app. >> Mhm. >> You can put your spare change in a jar.

>> Yeah. But I mean, that's not going to make you rich.

>> A nickel here or seven cents there.

You're burning more calories than that.

Screwing with this. It's just crazy.

>> The best thing, the best thing it will do is get people thinking about investing in general, which I think that's good because I think a lot of people go through life and not really even think about could I invest, could I? >> If it gets you off the couch and gets you investing because you're Yeah. Then I'm game. >> Anything that gets you going, right?

Almost anything.

>> This is not bad. It's just not big enough to be great. >> A big deal. Yeah, >> it's not huge. Yeah. >> As as I was That's good. I was gonna make a joke. Yours was better. >> Landon is in Dallas. Hey, Landon. What's up? >> Oh, not much. How are you doing, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Fantastic. Um, so my wife and I are both debt free and we are well on our way.

Just a couple months away from our six-month emergency fund. and I am looking to start a uh getting ready to start a handyman/reodel business with a friend from church and I want to know what steps we should both take so that we are both protected from potentially dumb decisions.

>> Uh I would not form a partnership.

>> Okay, that's the step I would take. I would just say um you know we're going to work on this job together and if you want to split the profits that's fine.

uh after you've done 10 jobs that way, if you want to formalize it and say, um,

I work for you or you work for me and the compensation is half the profits, but you own it or I own it, that's fine.

Anything with two heads is a monster and the only ship that won't sell is a partnership. It's a good way to screw things up. There's no reason for this to be a partnership except that you got a guy you like and a guy you trust that you want to work with. You can do that on an employer employee basis or you can do that on a one job at a time basis without forming a formal partnership.

But um we coach about 10,000 small businesses Landon through Entree leadership. The number of small businesses that a partnership survives

over 10 years is very clo it's well

under 5%. 95% of them are gone. The the

major exception would be law firms and medical practices. is they do partnerships a different way, different structure and so on. Uh, and they're much more adept at it. But two guys in a construction business, still partners after 10 years of doing it, almost zero.

>> Two guys of heat and air business, almost zero. Two ladies in massage therapy, almost zero. You know, I mean, whatever, whatever the thing is that two, we need two of you. It's okay. You don't have to have it. You can just be >> I I I share profits with a lot of people here as if they're partners, but we don't have any partners. It's that simple. Good question. Good show, Jade.

It >> was fun. >> Well, good show to the gang in the booth. Well done, booth people. That puts us Hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat.

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## 83. Hope Always Lives on the Other Side of Hurt | September 22, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:07:08 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. We're thrilled to have you with us. The phone number to jump in on the conversation today is88255225.

[Music] You ready to go, partner? I am ecstatic.

I see you got your uh really fancy uh

denim jacket on today. I saved the best for you. >> I appreciate you cleaning up. Let's go to Kathy in Texas. Kathy, how can we help?

>> Hi. Uh I'm 68 years old and six months ago I got involved with an online investment group. I eventually borrowed $50,000 from my brother. He invested 110. I retired from my company. I took

out all my 401k and pension. And uh last

month they ghosted us and froze our accounts and we lost it all. I lost 487,000.

My brother lost the 50 I borrowed and 110 he invested. And my brother would like his money. >> Oh boy. >> And and I have a house that's paid off.

I live in Texas, so I have a homestead on it. Um, I have a $30,000 loan from

American Express. So, I'm wondering, do I file bankruptcy? Do I tried to get a reverse mortgage, but my house is My husband died, so my house is not uh in

in good enough condition.

>> I'm just lost. >> Okay. Oh, absolutely. Not only you lost, I'm guessing you're just emotionally stunned. >> You know, that's that's an unbelievable.

>> Yeah. And I'm so sorry.

>> Is this scam still out there?

Um I'm it probably is. I filed with, you

know, FBI and all the agencies, but they

didn't have a whole lot of hope for me.

>> Yeah, it's rare that in these situations you get your money back. So, how much debt total do you have right now? You said you have 30k on an American Express card, >> right? That was a loan. The other two are 2,000 um maybe 3,000 total. So, 33,000.

>> So, 33,000. And I know you retired recently. >> Um. >> Yes. >> What is your what is the future look like as far as work? Because that's we absolutely have to consider that right now. >> Oh, I know. I've been applying but I'm like I said, I'm 68. I've had my job for 36 years. I did sales so I can do that.

But I'm, you know.

>> How long have you been out of the workforce?

>> Uh, since May. End of May.

>> What about your past company? Have we called them up and told them what's going on?

>> Um, my job once you quit you you're

gone. >> I'm easily replaceable.

>> Okay.

Wow. Well, bankruptcy, you know, it will clear the American Express debt, but I don't think it's worth >> bankruptcy over this. Yeah.

>> Cuz you just you lost your retirement money. You're not going to get that back, >> right? >> And the pension as well. So, you took the pension out as a lump sum, used that in the investment course, took cashed out every dime of your retirement, and threw it into this course.

>> Correct. All I have is $2,000 a month social security. Now, >> what is your >> $500?

2,000. I make 2,000 a month.

>> And then what was the other thing you were about to mention? 500 something.

>> I promised my brother $500 a month.

>> Well, the promises are over. I mean, you don't have money. >> Sorry. Brother is on his own. We you both got screwed in this and so you just simply don't have the money to pay him back.

>> Okay. >> I mean, he got you into this if I heard you correctly. >> No, I got him. And >> okay, >> it doesn't matter.

>> Due diligence. >> It doesn't matter. That was just me kind of being on team Kathy. So, I I misunderstood.

Uh but no, you can't take care of brother. Brother's got to take care of himself. You both You both made a poor decision and and now we got to figure out >> you were what the bank would call a risky borrower.

>> Well, he had he had faith in me and and he's I've never disappointed him before.

So >> well, I hope you can pay him back one day, but it's not today. You're not going to be making him payments cuz you got to put food on the table. >> Can you live off of 2,000 a month?

Um my my bills really are $800 a month

um plus food and then my homeowner's

insurance and um uh

>> so all in what does it take to run your house for a month include food include HOA every single little thing?

>> Yeah, pretty much 2,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So you're just going to hopefully survive and that's where getting a job is going to come into play. Listen, I'm going to tell you, I'm gonna jump in real quick on the job thing because I think coming off of something this emotionally difficult, one of the best things you can do is get to work.

Now, I understand that you have been applying, but I think uh you're going to have to take some opportunities that you wouldn't normally think about now. I mean, that's maybe Starbucks, Walmart, Target. I mean, you're you're functional.

We need income and if we can get some benefits out of that. So, I mean, you're you're doing everything you can and your number one goal right now is to tell everybody your story. Now, this is very difficult. I understand what I'm saying.

I I completely understand what I'm asking you to do, which is to share your story. It is a thing that is going to be difficult because you're ashamed, and I understand that. But you aren't the only person who has been duped before. And I

think a 60-year-old lady who's a good person, uh, who has lived her life well,

I this is where we can't do this on our

own.

>> We cannot, Kathy, do this on our own. I

mean, we No advice that George and I will give you um is going to alleviate

that fact.

This is the time to go, everybody. I know, here's my story. here's what's going on and and this is what I got to do. And I think that there's nothing wrong with that because you need some kind souls to go, I'm gonna help Kathy and I'm going to give Kathy a job. Uh that's what has to happen right now.

What is your house worth?

>> Uh probably 350 for a flipper. It's on

paper that they >> What do you mean for a flipper? you know, if somebody came in and wanted to flip it and make some quick money.

>> I'm saying if you listed it on the MLS on the market with a real estate agent, what could you get for it?

>> Uh, well, I asked and they said 375 to 425. >> Okay. So, your house is worth about $400,000. I would keep it for now. Try to stay afloat. Try to get a job. And there's a worst case scenario here where five years from now, if you're out of options, you're unable to work for some reason. You could sell the house, downsize, and invest the difference to

try to create a little bit of a nest egg.

>> Well, that was why I was going to do the reverse mortgage route. >> No, >> but that >> I mean, they will just screw you with all the fees. You're going to lose all the equity in your home.

>> Um, you know, it's it's a terrible, horrible financial product and they prey on desperate people like our friend Kathy to try to get them into these.

Uh Kathy, I'm gonna ask a question to George on your behalf very quickly.

>> Um George, I agree with what you said about the house, but I'm sitting here going, if I'm in her shoes at 68, I wonder if it's not a is it a feasible idea to not sell the house now and take

the entire proceeds and get that back in the the retirement accounts to try to grow over the next five years? I I as you said that, I just What do you What are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean that was my my initial thought was could we just liquidate the house, invest every penny of it and live off of the growth. There is risk there because we don't know what the market's going to be.

>> I don't want to live off of it. >> We don't know how long it'll last. So that's why I want to see right now, can we create enough income and then use that play that card later on down the road when necessary instead of just going to that route and then not working at all. That's my fear.

So Kathy, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I wish I had a magic wand that can just get these scammers to give you your money back.

The future you had, the retirement you dreamed of, it's not going to be the same. So, you've got to grieve what was and just create a realistic picture of what comes next.

[Music]

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Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. And they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

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All right, Chris is up next in Houston, Texas. Chris, how can we help today?

>> Well, Ken, yours, thanks for taking my call today. You're my favorite combo.

>> Oh, wow. We will send you a check.

Kelly, make sure we pay the man. Make it a Venmo. Yeah, Vinmo, make it easier.

>> Thank you. Yeah, >> thank you, Chris. Appreciate that.

What's going on? >> Okay, so um my wife and I are really concerned really right now about our future retirement. Um so, just a little background, don't have anything saved.

um don't have 3 to 6 months expenses.

Just started doing the Ramsy steps. I'm on baby step two. Um so we're we're

we're talking about selling our home to get the equity out of it. Um to basically just pay everything off and just kind of start fresh and be able to put some money back um and then start, you know, investing 15%. Like the random step says, but um I'm not sure if that's

the right answer to do that or not. Um, the other option is I keep working like a madman like I've been doing. Um, keep the house, but we have a pool and I don't know if that should be like included like with the mortgage payment even though they're separate or that's considered consumer debt with our car note.

>> How big is the pool loan?

>> Uh, the pool loan is 73,000.

>> And what's your household income?

>> Uh, about about 8,200 a month after

taxes. >> Okay. Okay. What about before? Just give me the gross household income for >> 128. 128.

>> Yeah. I would put it uh up there with your mortgage. Since it's over half of your annual income, we'd kind of treat that like a like a second mortgage at that point. >> Okay. >> And so I would focus on a consumer debt first. How much does all that add up to?

>> Um well, we paid off all the credit cards, which is about 16 grand. Um now we have all we have left besides the pool is a card, which is about $27,000.

>> What's the car worth?

42. >> Oh, I know what we're doing there, George. Tell him what he's won. You just won $15,000, my friend. That's the difference. If you sold that car and took the proceeds and got something cash, you just freed up a payment and became consumer debtree.

>> And let's let's let's stay right there, Chris. How much is that car payment?

>> Uh, it's 500 a month. >> All right. So, we just found you 15,000 in cash and we then saved you six grand

a year of net income. Hello.

See that magic trick right there?

>> Yes. >> And we still have a place to rest our head that we can call our own. >> So, what you won is a uh cheaper car.

That's what you want. Now, what is the What's the mortgage? >> My wife wins. But >> what's that? Say that again.

>> Unfortunately, that's what my wife wins. I >> Is she Is she on board with this?

>> She is. If that's what we have to do.

Yes, >> it is what you have to do.

>> Okay. >> Well, here's the thing. Do you want to be eating alpo in retirement? but have a nice car or do we want to make a short-term sacrifice so we can retire with dignity? That's the trade-off here.

>> Wow. We're not trying to punish you.

>> Right to the dog food.

>> That was dark. And it's honestly dog food's not cheap. I take that back. I tell you, my dogs eat really good food.

It's going to be ramen, I guess. >> But, you know, Chris, the reason I'm saying you guys have to do this is because you're 53 and you don't have any retirement. So, we have got Now, now this is where George is like, I love I love when George Oh, I see him doing I wish you could see him right now. He's already got he does the onehand keyboard thing. He's got the Ramsay investment calculator which you can access at ramseysolutions.com.

So the reason we're going to be super aggressive here is because you guys can catch you you can start to make headway, but we're talking we got to sell the car and it lists today and we have got to

change. So let's let's run the numbers, George. >> Yeah. Are you guys in in pretty good health?

>> So that's a good question. So I had a heart attack back in March. Um, and I've

changed a lot. My health has gotten a lot better for sure. I've gone through tests and all that stuff right now. Um, and and so, so that kind of leads me to, you know, I've been, you know, I work my regular job, which I work 50 plus hours at. I've been door dashing on the side about another 50 hours a week.

>> Wow. >> Which is a lot because I'm working every single day from morning to night.

>> How long you been doing that door dashing? >> I've been doing the door dashing now for about 3 months. Did you include that in the credit cards? >> Okay, good for you. Did you include that though in the number you gave us on the 128,000 gross?

>> No. >> Okay. >> No, I did not because I don't know how long I could sustain that because I'm working every Saturday. Only day I'm taking off is a Sunday. That's it. >> Okay. And what about your wife?

>> Uh my wife works as well. She works full-time. Uh her her money is included in that number as well. >> Okay. And what are you guys doing for work? Are is there area for growth here?

>> Uh yeah, I'm in sales. I mean, there's potential for commission. Um, I just started a new job.

>> No commission right now, >> Chris. That is far better than driving Uber. Forget Uber. Number one, >> spend 50 hours on the phones and emails selling. >> Yeah, I'm no uh doctor. I would like to play one on TV. I want to point that out. >> And he would make a great one. >> I think I would look good in scrubs. But uh the point here is is that your better your your health and the financial ROI

for you is way better to go after that commission. But even at the 128, George, let's paint a picture here. If we sell the car and so we we come up with 15

cash. So we got 15, George, to work with. >> Yeah. You take that 15, you buy yourself a used cash car. >> There we go. >> And then you're debtree. Now we can work on the emergency fund. So for the next, let's call it six to eight months, just stack away cash to build up that emergency fund. Then we can begin investing. So let's just paint a picture. You're a year from now, you're 54, right?

>> Yes. >> And you're debtree with an emergency fund. And we begin investing 15% of our income. That's about 1,600 bucks a month. Are you tracking?

>> Yes. by the age of 70. Now, this is assuming you're going to have to work longer because we got a late start. You would have $750,000 likely in that one account.

Now, we're talking, okay, we could, if we have a paid for house and 750 grand in the bank, we have a fighting chance of surviving. Right. >> Now, what that doesn't include, Chris, is those commissions and more income socking it away.

>> What's left on the mortgage? What's the balance? >> 370. >> Okay. Okay. And how many years left on the mortgage?

>> Uh, took out a 30-year note when we bought the house. So, I still have 26 years on it. >> Woo. >> What's it worth? >> That's why that's why we're talking about selling the house. >> What can you get for the house? >> Fresh about 600.

>> So, that would you'd walk away with roughly what?

Um, when I look at the numbers, I think I would walk away with about 180, but

then paying off the car and the pool,

>> um, that leave me with about 100, I think. >> Yeah, then I have to put, no pun intended, the pool. Exactly.

>> I see what you did there. >> But then with the pool, I mean, I'm sorry, what would I have left would be about 20% on the house, which only leave me with about $11,000.

>> Yeah. But >> put towards the 3 to six months expenses. I Yeah, I like it's aggressive. Uh allows you to start with the emergency fund immediately uh and

start investing and you guys can downsize. It's just the two of you.

>> No, we have two two more kids at home, but you know, they're they're older, so they'll be out at some point. >> That's right. They they they live where we tell them to live. >> George, what do you think about this? I'm actually leaning towards this. I like this move. I'm trying to think what would you go rent somewhere for a while and just keep stacking cash because you're not going to be able to afford anything for 180.

>> Well, that doesn't pay off. >> We would need to go find We have to Well, if we sold it for 600, I think I like if we sold it for 600 today, I could pay off the pool and the car >> and be able to um end up with about after I put 20% down on a house on a 15-year note. Um, I think I would have about $11,000 left

>> and then it'd be quicker there then to start, you know, saving for retirement as soon as I get that built up.

>> Yeah, you're just you're going to be back to having a giant mortgage is my fear >> with today's rates and today's prices.

So, that's the part you have to weigh. I would crunch those numbers heavily. I just selling a house is always the last answer, not my first solution because number one, it doesn't actually change the behavior that got us here. It just feels like a get out of jail free card and it kind of moves you backwards.

Instead of building equity and and getting that house paid off, now we're liquidating and starting from scratch again in our 50s. And so I would I wouldn't I would hesitate before just jumping on that. But I love the idea of you guys getting debtree faster, having more to retire with. Uh but you would also have to go we're going to downsize our lifestyle and change.

I don't like the idea of you just keeping everything going, well, we're gonna keep the car, keep the pool, keep living how we're living, and get the cake, too.

>> Agreed. And I feel like if we keep the house, then I just don't see in an end

in sight how we could pay off the house eventually. >> I just feel like it with the income where it's at, even if I go up another 20 30,000, I just don't see how I pay off the house. >> Yeah, George, I I'm I'm uh I'm going to tell you, I like the aggressive approach here. I rarely disagree with you, but I like where he's at to reset, even if they've got to rent at this stage for a couple of years.

I think a reset to try to really get focused on retirement investing. I don't know. It's aggressive, but I like it. It's a reset for sure.

[Music]

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Danielle is up in Cleveland, Ohio.

Danielle, how can we help today?

>> Oh, hi. How are you doing today? Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure.

>> Um so my question is um whether we are

on baby step two or six.

Uh reason being is so >> is this a trick question?

>> The riddle wrapped in a rhyme.

>> It it really is truly. Uh we were all

excited. Um we were debtree. We were baby step six right now. Um so all we have left is our mortgage. Um we didn't take into consideration that we do actually have a vehicle loan out for our son who is paying it. Um but it is in our name. So, does that mean that we go

back to baby step two?

Um, should we consider going ahead and paying the loan off while still making him responsible for it or continue on

with um putting everything towards our mortgage as we have been? >> Do you have the cash to pay it off today?

>> Well, so we we have our emergency fund, our, you know, six-month emergency fund.

And so we were thinking that if that loan puts us back to baby step two, that technically we should use that to pay it off and then we hurry up and re, you know, rebuild our six months.

>> All right, George, tell her tell her what's left on the loan.

>> Uh 18,000. >> Okay. And is he making payments right now or are you guys making?

>> No, we do not make the payments. He makes the car payments, the car insurance, all of that. Hm.

>> The loan just happens to be in our name.

>> Well, you owe the money. If he stops making payments, it's on you. So, it's your debt. Correct. >> Even if someone else is currently making the payment. And I hope he continues to make the payment and do the honorable thing. Um what if uh is he making the payment directly to the lender or is he sending you guys the money and you you actually do the transaction?

>> Yeah, we make the transaction. We we actually he gives us the money, we make the payments. I'm just wondering if you guys paid it off, but you make him continue to make payments to you guys.

That sort of gives him the responsibility of what he said he would do, which is make the car payments while absolving you guys of the risk, the debt, all of that and the interest.

>> So, that's kind of the way we were leaning. Um, same thoughts. Um because

at the end of the day, we do have even if it fell on us, if he for some reason something happened and he stopped making the payments, we have the money um to

pay it. We just weren't sure if if we should go ahead and use emergency fund and then go ahead and rebuild that, which we could do in about >> what's in savings right now.

>> Um so we have 25 in our six month um

emergency fund. Um, and then we have a couple other accounts with, you know, um, like let's say 5,000 in one and a

couple thousand in the other. Um, okay.

>> But we have no we have no other debt other than our mortgage. Um, so really all most of our money is is thinking funds and then and paying extra on our mortgage to get debt paid off.

>> Okay. Well, I mean, if we're going to talk semantics in the baby steps, you are in baby step two. Uh, and we would consider this uh, you know, where you're going to liquidate your savings to pay off any debt, >> just like we would tell anyone in Baby Step 2, >> and you'll rebuild it really fast. I would have him continue to make the payments unless you just go, "Hey, bud.

You're off the hook.

>> You're, you know, congratulations.

>> Mom and dad just wanted to be generous.

Early inheritance for you.

>> We want him to be responsible. We we're trying to now get him in, you know, Ramsay program and and started him ath

to pay for his vehicle.

>> Good. Well, the if you want the truly responsible thing, it's the discipline to actually save up and pay cash for his next car. >> And so just making payments has left a lot of people broke.

>> Agreed. Yes. >> So, uh it's an it's an honorable thing that you guys have followed the steps. And I would talk to him, you know, I don't know when, but say, "Hey, this was a mistake.

Uh, we we want to do everything with cash. We don't want to owe people money. It's going to free us up mentally, emotionally, financially, and we wish the same for you." >> Oh, I have to tell you, George, if we could go back in time, if if we were if >> I want to sing if I could turn back time, >> please do it. >> I won't.

>> Is that right? >> Yeah. They've been very busy lately, Ken. >> Oh, I see what you did there, too. Right out of the headlines. We're having a good time. >> You are on it today. But I didn't know you watch the news to be honest.

>> I try to keep up. There's so much.

>> I'm trying to help Danielle. I'm trying to keep up with the news. >> Well, Danielle, I'm so happy for you guys. You're going to be debtree today.

>> Oh, I know. You I have to tell you. I know you guys hear this a lot, but you are my favorite duo and I really appreciate all of your advice and and how helpful you all are. >> That's so kind.

By the way, if anyone's keeping score, that's two for Ken and George today. >> If we get three, we get a race. >> Is that right? Oh, okay.

Let's milk that. Okay. >> Oh, that's a great question from Danielle. >> It is actually a really good question, Danielle.

And I don't know if you caught it. She said they could rebuild their emergency fund in three months. So, really the absolute best move right here. But you got to tell Sparky, you know.

>> Yeah, >> you got to tell him. >> Well, you don't tell him because then he goes, "Wait, mom and dad aren't making." >> You know, I'm actually glad you said that because I wonder, do you tell Sparky? >> Is it deceitful? I don't That part is the ethical part of me goes, "I don't know.

It's kind of like good philosophical. I don't think it's deceitful. >> What about charging? the loan off.

They pay it off.

They don't have to tell him they paid it off. >> That was my thinking. Regardless, >> I think to your point, it puts him in a temp kind of a temptation situation where he's like, "Oh, mom and dad paid it off and I'm going to flake out and put their love to the test. >> Maybe I'll miss a payment this month." >> I hope Sparky's listening. I might be reading his mail. I might be reading his mail. >> Yeah. >> Uh Rex is up next in Houston, Texas.

Rex, how can we help?

>> Uh yes. I just have a question. I'm 66 years old, still working. I have a 401k

IRA and my question is, should I take

money out of my IRA or 401k to pay off my existing debt?

>> How much do you have in the retirement accounts and how much debt do you have?

>> Um IRA is 1.1, the uh 401k is 200,000.

Debt's about 300,000.

>> What kind of debt?

>> Uh that's including my mortgage.

a school loan, uh, personal loan, cars,

and, uh, credit card.

>> Wow, you got a little full bucket there.

>> Yeah. At 66, I would want to simplify my life. And so, you would deplete 300,000 out of your 1.3. So, it' bring you down to a million >> somewhere around there. Yes.

>> I like this plan because here's what it does. It frees up all of those payments.

So, if you added all of those payments up, the mortgage, the consumer debts, what would that be every single month?

>> Uh, it's about $4,500.

>> Woo. Now, could you then invest that exact amount? Could you promise me in America that you would do that?

>> Well, pretty close. I mean, right now, I put uh 10% from my paycheck into my 401k

and an additional 5% into savings.

>> So, here's my thinking. Are you going to work for another five years per se or what's your plan?

>> Yeah, the plan is is to uh I'm not

taking social security either right now. So when I went to 70 to take social security, plan is to work to 72.

>> Wow. Well, I did some math for you. If you take that 4,500 bucks and you start investing it from 66 to 71, you would end up with 348. So you will have more money than this debt was costing you.

>> Okay? And also if I take it out of there, of course I don't have a penalty of being 66, but I am in the high tax

bracket. >> So you are it's all in traditional. So you would pay taxes on that.

>> Yes, traditional IRA.

>> Yeah, I would sit down with a a tax pro or a smart vester pro. You can jump on ramiesolutions.com, crunch some numbers and see, hey, maybe I knock out consumer debts this year and the mortgage next year and try to minimize some of the the tax damage. But either way, you're going to be debtree real soon, my friend. And I would consider maybe selling these cars if we have some equity in these cars. Let's let's not rob from oursel.

Let's let's have some discipline on that. >> Minimize the damage. >> Yeah. Thanks for the call, Rex.

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>> All right, let's go to John in Kentucky.

John, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how are you guys? >> Good. How are you, sir?

>> Blessed. Blessed. Um, just a a quick question. Uh, I recently was promoted and um with the expectations of moving out in uh Colorado and um the job's been

great and I'm trying to find out either a what kind of home price I should be looking at to make sure that um when my

wife we have our first child, she can work from home or just not work at all.

um or if I should end up renting for a

year or two to be able to put down a lot more on the home.

>> Great question. Okay, lay out some numbers for us.

>> Yeah, so um currently I'm in sales, but

uh minimum is usually about 17K per month. Um some months it's really great up to 30, but it's usually between 17 to 22,000 for for my income.

>> Amazing. hers is about 5K per month, but

with we're expecting to bring her home after the first child. >> Okay. So, we'll just remove that income from the equation. And you're going, hey, how much house can I afford if I make about 20K a month?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And what are you looking at right now? What what price range?

>> Yeah. So, um we're looking between

300 to 500,000. Um, but I've also been

speaking with a realtor about trying to find an assumable loan. I do have the option for a VA, uh, which would definitely help with lowering that monthly income or the monthly home price. >> Well, what it'll do is just allow you to get in with less equity, less down payment. >> And so, that part worries me, especially for a guy making this kind of money. Are you guys not in a good financial position? Do you have debt?

>> Uh, no. I've spent the last few months paying off all uh any credit cards, anything like that. Um she has a car loan that has a little less than 10K. Um I've got about 35,000 in the savings. Um about 20 to 25 that I

could access through the 401k. Um and then with sales, I should be expecting another 15 to 20,000 before we decide to pull the trigger. >> John, are you familiar with our baby steps? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So, when you tell us you have 35,000 sitting over in savings and your wife is carrying a $10,000 car loan, what do you think we're thinking?

>> Could get that paid off immediately.

>> Yeah. So, this is fun. I love when someone else knows what we're going to say. So, >> sure. >> The question I have is what is keeping you from doing that knowing that that's what we were going to tell you to do?

>> Yeah, that's that's a great question.

Um, one of the things that I've been thinking about is with her coming home, um, is it worth paying off the car now or is it worth making sure that I have

the emergency fund saved up in case something ever happened to me or the job that we would have a nest egg to then

make decisions on finding a new job or going from there. >> When is she coming home?

>> Um, we are trying now. So, it 9 to 12

months. You get what I'm saying here? I already knew the answer. You don't know when she's coming home.

>> Sir, >> you guys, she's not even pregnant.

>> Sure. >> And so I'm adjusting these numbers to what you gave me. You guys, you immediately in laying out the numbers for George, you discounted her 5K a month. That actually takes your range of income between 22 and 27, not 17 and 22.

To George's point, you you're rolling, buddy. And so getting up a really good down payment is not going to take long with those numbers. Am I right, George?

>> Yeah. And you have a lot of flexibility with your level of income. Well, our parameter is no more than a quarter of your take-home pay going towards this mortgage. And that includes the principal, the interest, the property taxes, um, all of that, the homeowners

insurance. And so with your income, if you bought a $500,000 house with a h 100,000 down with a 15-year fix, you'd likely be looking at a payment of about 37.50 50 a month, >> which is very reasonable if you consistently make 17 or 20k a month.

Agreed. >> Yeah. >> And so, >> so having a down payment of that, could you save up a h 100red grand over the next 12 months?

>> Yeah, easily. The I guess I should have mentioned um there is an expectation of moving out there uh before February

March time frame. So, that's kind of the thing I'm >> Where's the expectation coming from?

from taking the job the promotion.

>> Yeah. But you don't have to buy a house just because you're taking the job.

>> Correct. And that's >> I rented for two years with three kids.

When I moved here 11 years ago, I rented a very much smaller house.

>> Um because we wanted for us it wasn't just the financial. It was I didn't want to make a massive decision like that about where my kids were going to be until I knew the area. So I love this question, John. And I say this I want you to feel older brother vibes here.

Okay. I love how planning and how

intense you are and all this stuff, but

dude, take a deep breath. You have no idea how quickly you guys are going to get pregnant and and you can pay off her car today. As soon as you hang up the phone, you still have 25 in cash and between the money you guys have, >> your 25 another 25K is going to slip through your hands in the next 30 days.

So, I wouldn't be worried about the emergency. You're going to be stacking up cash so fast. uh es especially once this car payment's gone, which I know it's not a lot comparatively to your uh income, but I would just be stacking cash and rent for life.

>> Rent, rent, rent until you guys get

planted in this new place. You guys are a young couple. How long have you been married? >> Uh less than a year. >> Oh, good heavens. You guys are just learning how to be married.

>> Yeah. >> How old are you, John?

>> Uh 32. >> 32. Um yeah, man. Like this is exciting.

This call is great. >> And then you mention you mentioned the 401k. Never touch that retirement account if you're not 59 and a half.

You're essentially taking on a loan for 35% by cashing that out early. So I

would just leave that money alone. You have a great income. Go rent in February in that new city. Sign a 6 or 9month lease. And by this time next year, you're going to have a $100,000 in a down payment account and you can get a half million dollar home. And it's going to be so peaceful to do it slow and

steady instead of rushing into all this at once. Especially when you're bringing a baby into this world, man, that just adds a whole another layer of stress and nesting. And so, you don't want to be moving while she's 8 and a half months pregnant. >> Yeah. And just what and to that point, I just want to give you one other little encouragement.

>> Even if she got pregnant tomorrow and the baby's I mean, the income if you have no debt and the income you have, you're fine. you you'll build up the emergency that 35. You're going to replenish that. You've got more than enough to take care of this baby. All right. So, I love your earnest intensity. I really do. You're a sharp young guy. You're you're in good shape.

Good shape. I appreciate it.

>> Just breathe, man. You know,

>> yeah, that's been the the tough part is just trying to make sure, you know, in introducing new family that I do everything right. >> Well, buddy, I I'm going to tell you something. You're a poster child.

I mean, you are you are just a you know, if you look up fine young man in the dictionary, nobody uses that terminology except people that are young man. Well, I'm 51, folks. That's we have a we have an expanded vocabulary. All right. Can I get some love in the lobby? You've heard you've used the phrase that see clap if I've ever seen what it is. No, that was a nice par putt clap is what that was.

Respectable. Uh, but you listen, John,

you are absolutely doing a phenomenal

job of of providing for you, your wife,

your future family. You are way ahead of how, George, just to put you on the spot because you're in the numbers on this particular stuff more than I am. The average 32year-old, if you were going to make something up, an educated guess versus John, to encourage John and and also to paint the picture for other people that to be in his spot. What would you say the average 32 year old dude uh his financial picture looks like in America?

>> Uh probably has a big truck that's about 700 bucks. Probably still has his student loans. Probably still fooling with credit cards.

month. >> So this picture I'm just like this kid is going places. uh he just got to tweak a few things and have a little bit of patience, but he's going to be catapulted when he's making 20 grand a month, no debt, with a reasonable house payment, which means he's going to pay that house off early. Mom's going to be at home, not stressed, taking care of the baby, raising the family.

This is this is a poster child for the baby steps if he can do this right. >> Yeah. So, John, man, we are we are team John and you've done such a good job and it's really important to be able to get perspective. So glad you called today.

if we could just be a little bit of a sounding board to go, man, you're doing great. You just got to, as George said, the tweaks and and enjoy life and and don't be so scared because you are really really in great shape and uh we're praying for you guys. Hope the baby and all that everything comes along when you want it to. It's such an exciting time.

Uh you're doing well, young man.

[Music]

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken

Coleman. Thrilled to be alongside my pal George Camel. We're here for you.8825 88 8255225.

We go to Ohio next where Jennifer is waiting for us. Jennifer, how can we help today? >> Hi, I'm a lot more nervous than I thought I would be. >> Well, it's George. He's intimidating and uh >> it's the height mostly. >> Just know that I'm here to just take care of you. I'll make sure he's nice.

>> Okay. >> So, um I'm on uh babysat 2 and I'm still

about $50,000 in debt. Um, however, um,

I'm sorry, I don't want to cry on my on the phone. >> It's okay. It's okay. >> I have to make a hard decision to say goodbye to my buddy, my dog next week.

>> About 17 and I've had him 15 years and he's been with me. He's moved across to another country with me and all the things. >> What's his name? >> Um, his name is Ulisses.

>> Ulisses.

>> Yeah. But you know, like Ulisses and then my last name like the general name.

I love that historical name.

>> Yeah, I'm I'm nerding out right now.

>> What kind of dog? >> Yeah, what kind?

>> I don't know. He's um he's some kind of poodle mix. Um his first owner was a hoarder and I think was was trying to um

>> like breed dogs or something. It was a bad situation. So, he's >> he's just a sweet >> he's a total love bug, you know? He's he's almost 17 and >> well right now like his tail would still wag if he'd come up and try to He's He's just lovely. >> Well, listen, you're talking to two dog lovers here.

>> I was hoping I'd get you, too.

>> We We We hurt for you. This is not fun.

Okay, so we got this hard decision coming up. Tell us what else is going on. >> Well, so here's what I've done. And I guess I'm just looking for some reassurance that financially I've done the right thing. So, part of how I knocked out the debt was I had a non-retirement mutual fund and I cashed that out and um what I did is I knew

this was probably coming. So, I took $400 um and I put it in a scing fund

just in my savings account to say when and if where I'm struggling and I hate it. Guess what I want to do is have him cremated and get the earn back like I did for my other dog. Yeah. >> But that's $200 more.

I do have the money in the scing fund. Um, I just I'm struggling with like I've been so good about I don't eat out rice and beans, beans and rice. Um, I'm doing handmade gifts instead of gifting.

of just 40 to get my my pup's and his ashes back. And I know not everyone agrees with that.

>> Well, what's the other option if you didn't do it?

>> Well, there's two. So, one is it's just $40 for the cremation and I I just pay that and I don't get them back. They just >> Okay, gotcha. I'm sorry. >> They do that like in math. And then, um the other the least expensive is I could bury him in my parents' backyard. But, um I I can't pick him up once he's gone.

Like, I don't think I can't do it. Like, I'm even having a panic attack thinking about it. >> Oh, well, that's tough. That's tough stuff. >> Jennifer, spend the 240.

>> Just spend it. You're never going to look back and go, "Dang it. Why did I spend that 240 bucks? I could have got out of debt 4 days sooner.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. I just I've been so diligent about like everything that it's like, >> yeah, >> this is not an impulsive girl trip.

>> Yeah. This is not craziness. This is like a big This is a huge deal. All of

us who've had to put a a furry friend down. >> Uh it is tough.

>> And And this is a >> Yeah. You're not like emotionally spending to go, you know, retail therapy. This is something that that you want to do as your way to say goodbye.

It's it's not going to derail your financial journey. >> And if it really makes you feel guilty, here's what I would do psychologically.

Go make 240 bucks doing something, selling something as part of this journey as a way to say, you know what, I didn't derail my financial goals and I got to grieve the way I wanted to grieve. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much.

We're so sorry you're going through this. >> Give you give him some love for George and I a little extra pat for the best boy. >> I will. I will. >> Yeah. >> Thank you so much. >> Oh my gosh.

>> What is it about dogs and pets that just

>> crushes? It's the unconditional love and innocence. >> Yes. And can we just say I love naming

dogs. It's one of my favorite things in life. >> What's your dog names? >> Uh we've got Ellis and Honey. Oh,

>> and they are doodles. Ellis is the big guy. He's like that white perfect curl

like he just And he's a human. He's Ellis thinks he's a human. >> I've stared into his eyes. >> You have. And I've I treat Ellis as though he's a human. And then Honey is our mini golden doodle. And our daughter actually owns She bought her. That was a big thing, big purchase for Josie, our daughter, and she did it. And she's just

a little miniature doodle. And she owns

me. I mean, you know what I mean? She's just unbelievable. So, >> well, especially as the kids get older and they don't like you anymore. The dogs will always love you. I >> tell you who's always excited to see me when I walk in. Ellis and honey. Stacy's not always excited to see. >> And I don't blame her. I mean, let's be clear here. >> I mean, it's been how many years you've been married? 27. >> 27 years. You know, some days she just

doesn't want to see me. >> She goes, "Hey, Ken, you left the laundry out. What did I tell you?" >> Yeah. Stacy doesn't sound like that. I promise. >> I was going to say that's a horrible impression. Uh, let's go to Ben in Kentucky. Ben, how can we help today?

>> Well, I'm about to retire. Not that I want to. It's since the company's closing. >> And I have 300,000 in CDs,

and I'm wondering what to do with that.

And I also have 100,000 US savings bonds. I mean, do I leave them in CDs and savings bonds or should I put them somewhere else? >> Well, I mean, you're just leaving a lot of money on the table. You're basically just kind of keeping up with inflation, but you're not going to make anything above and beyond that.

So, if this money is going to sit there for the next 10 years, I'd much rather see it invested into the market instead of just on the sidelines. >> It's time for the investment calculator, George. >> Should we play the game? >> We should.

Like, what is it? Are you scared?

Well, the market I'm >> I'm about 67 68 years old and I'm just

worried in the market because uh well,

as you know, it doesn't always go up and sometimes it takes a long time to come back up and I just didn't want to lose it and I just don't know what to do. I I like it to be safe and that's why I was wondering. I mean, because I do have a little bit in stocks but not much. But >> well, the thing is when you say I want it to be safe, it's actually riskier to

leave it in there long term. >> Yeah. >> And the risk is instead of making 20 30%

this year, you're going to make 4%.

>> And you're going to go, what? How does what happened? My money just kept up with inflation. Well, could have turned into half a million. Quick thing on this, Ben. If the things, and I'm not going to make you tell us for sake of time, but if the things happen that you're worried about happening that would make money in the stock market risky, guess what?

Your money's not safe in the other situation either. And we're all probably in a bunker somewhere. I you just you

just have to play that out. Does that make sense what I'm saying? Like all of the apocalyptic things that would make you think, well, the CDs are safer. If that were to happen, the CDs, none of it matters.

You with me on that, George? Yeah.

>> I mean, I don't think that's an Let's get a bigger financial picture here. Do you have any debt?

>> No debt. >> Okay. Do you have a a nest egg outside of this money?

>> Um, well, I have a simple IRA and that's about 600,000.

>> Okay. So, you are invested in the market through that IRA.

>> Yes. Uh-huh. >> Well, you trusted the market on that one. And here's the math on it. from 68 to 75, you just leave that 300,000 in there into the market, it'll turn into 600,000. >> Oh, >> by 75, >> Ben.

>> So that's what you're that's just average rate of return 10%. So I would move that money over, leave enough maybe a year of expenses if you're in a retirement to to cover a market downturn, but I would not just leave half a million parked on the sidelines, my friend.

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[Music]

Hey folks, we'd love for you to share the show with folks that you think might enjoy it, that might need it. That's how we grow. You guys are the ultimate marketing campaign. If this show is in any way impacting you in a positive way, we'd love that. Subscribe, share, like, follow, all the things. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Caitlyn is up in Texas.

Caitlyn, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, thanks for taking my call. Can you hear me? >> Yes. Loud and clear. What's going on?

>> Thank you. So, I My husband and I have been married for eight years. We have a seven-year-old autistic son and he has a

24 year old daughter from a previous marriage. Now, he was estranged from his daughter for a while. So, now they're they have a great relationship. But, um, we were talking and he said that he wants to give her 20% of his 401k

when he passed away, but when I'm still alive. And I feel very frustrated with

it. So, I don't know if I'm wrong or what I should do.

>> Oh, and did you tell him this how frustrated you are and why?

>> Yes. >> And how did he respond to that?

>> Well, his reasoning is because um he was

so he used to be a a he was in prison.

He was a drug addict at one point, but he got sober. now he's been sober for 13

years and he has rebuilt his relationship with his daughter and I think that he the money is trying to make up for lost time and that he doesn't want her to feel like he left her behind without thinking about her >> and she is and she is his daughter.

>> She is his daughter and she's 24. The reason why I'm frustrated is because my son, our son is special needs and I feel like he might not be able to take care of himself. And you know, we have a we

have a trust set up. It's a special needs trust. And I guess we have a will,

but I thought that all our assets were going to go into his will. I mean to his trust. And he's saying, "Well, that's fine, but 20% of my 401k is going to

her." >> Sure. Well, I'm just going to say that.

Let me ask another question. If this

daughter was your biological daughter, do you think you'd feel the same way?

>> Um, I mean, I I I maybe I think that

>> Let me put it another way. Do you think it is normal for Let me put Let me make

it super personal. Okay. I have three kids. >> Okay. And so in my will, um, do you

think it it would be abnormal if I

gave all three of my kids some money?

>> No, that would be fair. All three of your children like the same amount.

>> It doesn't matter. I'm not even getting into the specifics. I just want to I'm trying to walk you into I'm really trying to coach you here.

>> So you think that's normal for me to do that? Yes.

>> Yes. >> Why? Why is that normal? Why would that be totally normal

>> for you to give your money to your children when you passed away? Now, would you give that to them before your

wife passed away?

>> Well, without getting into the details.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to get into the details of my situation. I'm But I'm making a point here that is I don't think that this is abnormal and you don't either.

>> I think it's very emotional for you and I'm not judging you in any way, shape, or form. I certainly see how you are where you are because you shared it with me and I see how you got there >> u because of the the the challenges of your son and and what his situation would be. I get it. But as I'm s and I'm going to bring George in and George may have a completely different opinion.

where he's coming from and um I don't

have some fundamental problem with it, philosophical problem and I don't have a financial problem with it. George. Yeah.

The the piece I'm curious about, are you going to be okay if something were to happen to him?

>> Would I be okay if something happened to him financially? Like, would I >> if your husband dies today? Are you okay? >> If you get 80% instead of 100%, are you still living a comfortable life?

>> Um, I mean, he hasn't been in the workforce that long. I I probably have more investments than he does. Um,

>> so I'm trying to get at is this actually a financial there? There there's really no if I get 80% I'm not going to be doing okay versus 100. So it's really just the idea that he's valuing and prioritizing his daughter over giving you the entire share. And maybe you feel like it's unfair to the son.

>> Yes. >> So the next question is, is the son set up to succeed?

>> If something were to happen, is the special needs trust funded? And is it, you know, have you guys done a good job to make sure that he would be okay?

>> Well, so far we have. He's seven and my husband and I are both 50. I had him a lot later in life. And I think that I

mean I could see that. I I think that it

was just an emotional feeling. I kind of felt that he wasn't thinking about us

and he was more concerned about his a

grown child that self-sufficient. I think that's what it was. >> It absolutely is. But here's the thing.

As a as an objective bystander that you called and asked this question to, I don't think he's demonstrating that even financially. The lion share, the big chunk is going to you >> and for your son. He's giving her a percentage of his overall.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> So, I think I would try to put myself in his shoes and just talk to him honestly and say, "Hey, this here's how this hit me initially. I want to hear you out and hear your heart behind this. I want to come to an agreement and make peace with whatever we decide on as a couple. And I want to see the numbers to know that our son's going to be taken care of. I'm going to be taken care of and your daughter will get her share as well.

>> Okay. >> I think focusing on on the the facts, the logic, and the heart behind it, the motive behind it will help you step away from just the emotion of well, I'm his wife. I should be getting whatever he leaves. >> Yeah. >> And and a little dose of perspective, Lord willing, you guys live 20, 30, 40 years. You guys are early 50s. you got some work to do anyway on this to to to really uh bump these numbers up. So, it

is all emotional. I love that you're being honest. You're very self-aware on this and we're not judging you at all.

Totally get where you're coming from, but I see where your husband's coming from and I think this is a marriage issue and I think this is going to cause a lot of resentment if you don't get to a place of acceptance over this and go, "Oh, okay. We can come together and take care of our son. we can come together, make sure we're debt free, and walk the Ramsay baby steps out and retire with a tremendous amount of peace and and and margin and and and not even worry about this.

>> My husband 100%.

>> There we go. So now it feels unfair.

That's where this is stemming from. Is there a way where you could say, "Hey, he's 80% and I'm going to do 20% to the special needs trust." I could I could do that and I think he would have been I think he would be fine with it, you know, but I also know that if I give him 100% I definitely trust him where he would never he would do everything he could to make sure our son is safe and everything. >> And there's Okay, there's the statement.

There it is. What you just said is what

you have to remember when this emotion comes up. I trust him and I know that he

would do everything he can to take care of us. And this is the same man who also wants to do something for a daughter that he failed.

I admire this. I admire this move. It's not traditional. I get it. But this isn't a traditional life you guys have.

This is a unique story. And um I I hope

you can mend this resentment and go, "Hey, this is what I felt." because I'm sure he felt some of this coming at him and I think you got to support him in this move.

>> Yeah. Well, thank you.

>> You're a good lady. You're a good lady.

You know, you're not Listen, this is a I appreciate you being really honest, George. These >> Yeah. This is not an out-of- bounds thing like you you're what you're feeling is normal. >> Yeah. >> U but I just want to go further than that instead of just leave it at face value of well, he should give you 100%.

You're the wife. Again, this is a complex situation and it requires a more unique solution.

>> Yeah. Thank you, Kaylin, for sharing with us. You're you're a good lady and uh uh you guys have a lot of time to do

what's necessary to take care of your son. Focus on that. That's a unified goal and a worthy goal.

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right, George, we're going to do something new. Uh, this is going to be fun. How How about a video call? Would you like to help somebody out? >> This is something we have never done on the Ramsey Show. >> No, we're doing it right now. We're going to go to Sarah in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hi, Sarah.

>> Hi, guys. I hope you're doing okay today. >> We're doing okay. >> It's so nice to see you. >> It is so nice to see you. Thanks for joining us. So, uh, how can we help today?

>> Well, um, after about seven years of

hard work at paying off my debt, I've found myself in a bit of a better financial situation and

I've been working for seven years at 70

to 100 hours a week.

>> What? And I

>> doing what kind of work? >> When? >> Tell us what kind of work this is.

>> Um, a little bit of everything.

Uh, I've been a bartender, a legal secretary. Um, I currently work uh

bartending as a legal secretary and in logistics. >> What's your full-time job?

>> Uh, I work in logistics.

>> Okay. That's 40 hours a week.

>> Company. Yeah. Yep. And that's a normal like sometimes I'm working overtime.

Yeah. >> Okay. And then at night you're go just you're going to the next thing to the next thing to the next thing. For seven years you've done this.

>> Yes. >> Are you done with the debt?

>> I am not. I just got my student loans refinanced. They were at a 14% interest

rate if you can believe it and I cut it down to six. >> Okay. Okay. Wow. Give us a quick snapshot of your current debt situation.

So, um I have $85,000 left.

I got my credit cards completely paid off uh last year and based on my current

income and um the rate at my refinance, I'm able to pay double, sometimes two and a half p

uh times my minimum.

>> Mhm. So, >> are you doing the debt snowball where you're just focused on one and making minimums on the rest?

>> Um, I only have the one loan because they got consolidated when I refinanced to get out of the 14%.

>> Oh, so you have an $85,000 loan that you're just tackling. >> And what are you putting towards that?

What is the amount you're putting towards that every month? So the minimum is 1065 and I am currently paying per

month somewhere around

uh 2500.

>> Okay. And um >> and I sometimes can go a little higher depending >> depending on the hours.

>> So because you just told us 70 to 100 hours and the emotion came out.

>> What's going on? What's that emotion coming from?

Um

it's just been a lot.

>> Yeah. >> For a long time. >> Yeah. >> And 3 years is basically what I have calculated left at. So

>> Okay. And that just feels absolutely overwhelming.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So, what we want to do here is we want to go, okay, it's okay to take a take a a deep breath on this whole situation and go, okay, uh, I

can't keep this up right now. You you feel like you're at your breaking point.

That's what you feel like >> a lot of days. Yes. I mean, my boyfriend

is incredibly supportive, >> and he tries to do as much as he can to help out, >> but um he really doesn't know what more to do for me. >> No. Okay. So, let's see what we can do.

Well, you're not. Let's start there.

You're not stuck. You're exhausted.

>> Okay. You've done a great You've done a great job. All right. Let's look at the day job, the 40hour a week job. What is your income from that?

Um about 54 before any overtime.

>> Okay. 54,000 before overtime. And then

how many overtime hours are available to you?

>> It depends. Um currently I'm working

anywhere from 4 to 10 a week.

>> Okay. So 4 to 10 hours of overtime >> a week. Yeah. >> Okay. Great. So that puts us at most 50 hours. So 44 to 50 hours. And then you

are working these extra jobs on top of

that. Correct. >> Yes, that is correct. >> Okay. And uh if you were if I were to

say to you right now, hey, take a month

off of these other jobs and let's just let's just focus on the day job and the overtime that comes with the day jobs. So that's going to put us in a 44 to 50 hours a week. Okay.

um just knowing what you know um about

your finances, how much would that affect your ability to make that $2,000 payment a month?

>> What would that drop? Would it drop? And what would it drop to?

>> It would drop about $1,500.

>> Okay. So, it would be that substantial.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And that's what's saying if if you keep this up, you're on a three-year pace. George, I want to bring you in on that because I think there's another way out of this uh on the three years.

>> Yeah. I'm trying to get to the root of, you know, you've been at the seven years. On average, it takes people about 18 to 24 months to get out of debt. So, what was the original balance you were facing of all the debts? So um part of

what this is, uh I went and got a master's degree and um

my field that I work predominantly in is

known for not paying very well.

>> Um but I try to write in my free time.

Uh I have a degree in history. Um

>> so what was your masters in?

>> Military history actually.

>> Oh boy. Were you trying to get a job in that field or was this just a for fun?

>> Yes, actually I would my my eventual goal is to teach and I have the lead on

potentially getting into um a PhD program in the next couple of years. >> Well, forget it. >> Uh which is paid. >> Let's put that on ice. I know. But right now, so so let's go.

>> I know. And that's kind of where I'm at.

>> Let's go to the logistics.

>> Was this all the So what kind of debt was this and what was the original balances? cuz it sounds like you added to it over the seven years. In my mind, you were just crushing down the debt, but instead you were adding to it while trying to keep up.

>> I actually paid as I was in my master's

program um in in order to keep doing that and still held my minimums for my undergraduates.

Uh >> so this $500,000 entirely certain. No, I

so I was a little bit stupid and I didn't know what I was doing when I went into my undergraduate program.

>> That's mostly >> my dad took care of all of the loans and

he put them on variable interest rates and so I have no idea exactly what the starting amount was.

>> Are they in his name or yours?

>> Um, he's my co-signer.

>> Oh, this just got more interesting.

>> So, the debt is also his. Okay. All right. Yes. I think we got to talk about you. First of all, you can't keep this up. You I I don't think you're in a Now, you might be able to come back to 70, but a 100 hours like at some point you're going to have to be really really smart about you and your

mind and your body trying to keep this up. All right. So, >> yeah. >> What is two or three ladders up uh two

or three rungs up the ladder look like from your logistics career where you are now? What does it look like? Is it attainable? And does it pay substantially more?

>> Yes. >> That's the focus. If we can double your income and get you working 4050 hours, we solve the problem. >> That's what we're trying to do here.

>> You're working. >> That's one of the things I've been working towards for the last year is to

earn the promotion that comes. And I think I'm actually close to >> You're close. And can I tell you something else? You keeping up the schedule you've been keeping up while I admire it and it is gazelle intensity.

you're the poster child. So proud of you. But that's affecting your ability at the day job.

You're going to become more promotable when you are more refreshed mentally,

physically. So you're not stuck. Um

you're not putting the best effort. Your effort's amazing, but the effort's not going to the best place. I want to see you get promoted. I want to see you use that logistics resume in the building that you're in right now. Okay? or uh

outside of that building because the logistics experience and skill set, George, is where she has the greatest opportunity for growth. Now, we can work 50 hours a week, maybe the occasional 60, but we got more income.

>> Yeah, I would try taking a few months off. I think, you know what? Let me see what this does for my career. Let me see what this does for my emotional and mental health and physically, and then we'll reset in January and see, do we need to put the foot on the gas again? >> Yeah, Sarah, we're rooting for you.

You're a warrior. Keep going.

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[Music]

All right, let's go to Amber in Georgia.

Amber, how can we help today?

>> Hey guys. Um, so I guess my primary

question is how do you stay motivated?

Um, or how do I stay motivated when I feel deprived and restricted by a budget?

>> Who made the budget?

>> I got a feeling it was somebody else.

Was it you? You made the budget.

>> No, I made the budget. There there's more to the feeling restricted.

>> Yeah. What area do you feel restricted?

>> What's making you feel restricted?

>> Sorry, I thought I was going to be able to keep it together. >> Listen, people cry on this show all the time. You're okay. We're We're good.

>> I have had a very difficult life. It's been really really tough. Um, and I'm just now starting to get help. And, um,

part of the things that have been tough have been financial. Um,

I have spent money just because I was

filling a void. Um, and I didn't know or

realize that until recently.

>> So, I've gotten myself into a lot of financial trouble. Um, I was married to

a man who got us in a lot of financial trouble. We almost lost our house. we wound up filing bankruptcy.

>> Um, I had to file bankruptcy a second time in order to avoid a legal situation.

Um, and I I just feel like it doesn't matter what I do, I I can't stick to anything.

I >> So, you're beating yourself up big time.

>> This isn't about the budget, Amber. You You feel hopeless because life has knocked you down. Yeah.

>> And you need to heal from all the things

that have happened to you and that's okay. So, where are you at today?

Are you single again working?

Um, I work I work uh about 52 hours a

week. Um, uh, I've got two jobs that I

work those hours between and then I work 12 hours a month at a third job. Um, I do have a boyfriend, um, but he lives an hour and a half away. What are you make?

What are you making with all three jobs?

>> Around 62,000.

>> Okay. Do you have kids?

>> Um an an older kid.

>> Okay. So, you're only responsible for you right now?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. Let me just throw something in real quick. Okay.

I'm proud of you and I think you should be proud of yourself. I hear a lady who has had a rough go and I think you blame yourself for a lot of it. Not all of it, but I think you're dealing with a lot of shame. And I just want to say to you that the fact that you're working three jobs and making $60,000 a year and trying to rebuild. I'm just want to say you are a strong person. So, just wanted

to the rest of the phone call. I want you to know that and believe that because that's what I see. And George, you see it as well. >> Yeah. >> You're resilient.

>> Okay. So, let's keep walking through. George, walk her through the financial stuff. >> You make 62K. How much debt do you have right now?

Uh about 88,000.

>> Okay. Make break that down for us.

>> Okay. Uh 3,000 is just random um

miscellaneous debt. I've got 2,000 in credit card. Uh7,000 on one vehicle, 21

on another. Um 25,000 in student loans,

and 30,000 to my parents for my divorce.

>> Okay. And this is all post your last bankruptcy.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, the the cycle has just been continuing every single time.

>> Is that correct? >> Uh yeah. >> Okay. Yes. >> And what you you said you're you're trying to seek help. What kind of area you share as much as you're comfortable with, but what is the root of this?

If you had to say, "Hey, when this happens, this is sort of a trigger for me that causes me to spiral and go want to spend a bunch of money that I don't have and go into debt." >> What causes the loop?

>> Aside from mental health, I don't know.

>> When you say mental health, what are you comfortable telling us? What diagnose yourself here? What's What is this thing is what George is getting at?

I was recently diagnosed with um PTSD

and bipolar disorder.

>> Okay. >> And are you are you currently with a medical professional working on treatment and and medicine to get a hold

of this?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And in the meantime, your original question was I feel restricted by living on a budget. So when you made this budget, what is the area or line item where you go, h this is so restrictive?

What can't you do that you want to do?

>> Well, I mean, part of it is your bills, right? You have your rent, you have your utilities, you have insurance, you got to put food on the table and get some groceries. So, what is restrictive about it?

>> So, I feel restricted in the sense that um I'm so accustomed to having two incomes. Um, I went from

$175,000 combined to, you know, 50,000 at the time. And I at

the time, you know, I could buy whatever I wanted and it didn't matter. We were in a decent financial position. And I'm still in that mindset that I just can't

get out of. Paying my bills is not the problem. Bills are paid. It's I can't put money away because whatever money I have left over, I want to buy nothing.

Anything. >> Well, okay. So, let's let's re let's reclassify the word you're using because words matter. But before we do that, quick context. Yes, you had two incomes,

but you told us that your ex-husband put

you in a massive financial hole on his own. So, it wasn't that great. It's just

you guys were living like it was great.

True or false?

both true and false. The financial predicament happened years later and then we got on good terms, >> right? But my point is is it was great for a while and then it wasn't great and we're still living a long time ago. And so I don't think you're restricted. I think that you're dealing with a form of

depression and and I don't not I'm not a I'm not clinically diagnosed. I'm saying this is like financial depression because it's like I had this life. This is what it was like and now I'm just just chipping

away and I'm not even having any fun.

There's no fun at all. And welcome to the journey. There are people sitting in this lobby today that have felt that. If you felt that before, raise your hand out there. Yeah. I mean, millions of people that have turned their life around at some point in the baby steps, baby step one and two, George, are

grueling. Yeah. Do you have $1,000 right

now, Amber?

>> No. >> Has that been hard for you to come up with?

>> I had it and then I had it and then um

something happened that legally shouldn't. I had a lean placed on something and I had to get the lean off

in order to replace what I needed to replace. Well, that lean should never have been placed because that particular balance was included in the bankruptcy.

But because I legally needed to drive, I had to pay the lean. So, there went my entire savings. >> Okay. But $4,000, let's say, will pass through your hands in the next 30 days.

Correct?

>> Yes. >> Before you pay the bills, can you set aside a,000 over in a savings account outside of your checking account and still pay your bills?

Yes. >> Okay. So, there's baby step one. Part part of the the hard part of this is you just have to do it. And there's always going to be something that comes up and you just have to make getting out of debt and getting to a better financial spot the priority before anything else.

And it's there's going to be more setbacks where that came from because here's the reality. You're right.

Looking at the budget, it is restrictive because you're broke. You make 62K and you have 88K to pay off. That's hard math that you're facing. And so my hope for you is that we can go, how do we clear this debt fast? Like these cars, do we need both of these cars? Can we sell one or both of them and clear those payments and then buy something used in cash?

>> Uh, no, because they're they're both underwater. >> By how much on each?

um on one of them probably

4,000 and on the other maybe six or

seven. >> Okay, so now we have a solvable problem.

If we come up with 10 or 11k, we can clear these payments and breathe a little bit more and then we clear the next smallest debt and breathe a little bit more. So you're going to have to get creative. I hope you can get your health uh in a manageable spot and just know this looks different now. Your life changed dramatically.

The reality changed. Hang on the line. I want to get you into every dollar. It's more than a budgeting app.

It's going to walk you through this whole journey. Hang on the line.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside

the incomparable, the charming George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. You like what I did there?

>> I was actually shocked. I thought there was someone else you were going to announce. >> I think you are charming. I really do. I don't think you get enough credit for your charm, George. >> Thank you. >> People just love your brain. They do.

They love it when you crunch the numbers here on the >> I do like to crunch a good number. >> All right, Cindy's ready. Uh Cindy's joining us now in Ohio. Cindy, how can we help?

>> Well, good afternoon. First of all, my son wants me to say hi on his behalf.

So, >> what's his name? What's his name?

>> Um I would prefer not to sit at the moment. >> Yeah, we get it. All right. >> We were trying to give him a shout out. >> We were going to do a shout, but never mind. He'll know. >> Is he listening or watching? What What does it do? >> He will He is aware that I'm on the phone with you. He will see this later >> somewhere else. He will. He will later.

>> Okay, let's do it. Hey, buddy.

>> Hey, Braxton. I'm just gonna guess on name. I don't know. >> You can't make up a fake name.

>> I can do what I want. >> Now he's going to be confused. Cindy, I apologize for my co-host.

>> Well, tell your son we said hello. We'd love to meet him sometime.

>> All right, I will tell him >> what's up. >> Okay, so my question has to do with my

next step in the baby step. So, I am

single. I have a six-month fully funded

emergency fund. So, I'm excited to start on my 15% um uh investing. Awesome.

However, yeah. So, however, um I'm not

sure if I should because my company that I work for was recently purchased. Um and so there's some job uncertainty. Um

so, I know, you know, that's maybe a reason to save up cash. However, I was

notified um that if I stay with the

company for at least another year that they will give me a retention bonus. Um >> Okay, hold on. >> All right, let's pause. Let's pause real quick because this is interesting.

>> You're feeling because of the acquisition that your job may be in

trouble and yet they just gave you

a notification that if you stay for another year, you get a benefit.

Yes. >> So, that's a good sign to me. Yes. What

am I missing? >> It is. Um, they did say that if they

they haven't decided exactly which path they're going to go. They're kind of still in the figuring things out stage.

So, they did say that um they could end my employment at any point in time.

>> Oh, I missed that part. I must have interrupted you before that. Okay, I get you. All right. I'm sorry. bonus. That bonus would be payable to me regardless.

Um, if it's it's if it's a year from now or if they determine that my position will be eliminated, I still get that bonus. >> Okay. Any hint any hint or ideas or

hunches on when they're going to make this decision?

>> Um, that I don't know. But I also do

know for a fact that if my position is

eliminated, I will get that retention bonus along with a severance, which is

um how much? >> In excess of 10 months of my current salary. >> Give us that number.

>> Um it would be over $100,000.

>> Okay. I'm thinking that Cindy would be okay with that $100,000. You you that'd give you a little bit of padding to find another job. Is that true?

>> Yes. Okay. So, I'm taking a deep breath if I'm you. Yes.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I want to make sure I'm not missing anything. >> No, I I think that I'm okay to go ahead and start investing since I know that I've got six months in the bank already plus some. >> How much is in the bank? What's the number? >> Um I've got about 35,000 in the bank and my emergency fund would be about 19,000.

>> Okay. You're more than okay. I would not pile up another dime. I would just go ahead and ratchet that investing up to 15%. And you have a good retirement account through your employer.

>> I do. I have about 300 and something in there. >> Way to go, Cindy. Come on. Let's go.

Single mom.

>> Yes. Yes. >> And how old? That's amazing. How old are you? Oh, wait. You were not supposed to ask. >> I am 47.

>> Okay. Wonderful. >> Very young, by the way. So, I'm just thinking I'm just thinking how much this investment account will grow on top of you contributing to it. I have no doubt that you will be a baby steps millionaire if you just keep following this path. >> That is correct. What just for fun, George, what's the I love when you do this. Give Cindy a another reason to be

>> every year.

>> Uh my base is about 136.

>> Love it. Okay. He's running numbers, Cindy, on what that 300 is going to look like if you don't do this. Is going to be exciting. Are you ready for this? >> Here we go. >> Oh, boy. I saw >> 47 47 to 67. You already have 300 grand.

You're going to add 1,700 a month if you do 15%. You're going to be at about 3.5

million.

>> Hot dog.

>> So, I wouldn't be worried. Now, I hope you never lose your job and know that if you ever did, you're in the best situation possible knowing that you have an emergency fund. You have no debt and you have a severance package here. >> Yeah.

>> So, I would be sleeping well at night, just crushing it at your job. And if they let go of you, you're going to be so valuable, someone else will scoop you up, and you'll probably make more. >> That's right. >> Awesome.

Thank you. >> Hey, I didn't I know you didn't call about this particular piece, but I want to I want to give you this. Um, I wrote a book years ago called the proximity principle, and in the the entire book could be summed up in one sentence. The right people plus the right places equals opportunity.

And so anytime somebody calls or I run into somebody who's got a situation like this and they're like, I'm unsure about my employment. Beyond all the money stuff that we just covered, the next thing I'm going to tell them is start connecting like crazy.

connecting in your industry. uh or you're just and you're not going out and telling everybody the sky is falling or that my job but you can say hey I just just part of an acquisition and uh and so not sure where that's going to go could turn out great but really not sure right now and so I'm I'm out making connections coffees lunches um you know I am letting everybody know that uh I

might very well be a free agent and you would be surprised how much peace that's going to give you number one but number Two, you might be surprised that even though you might not be looking for anything, something might come to you. And the idea here is I want to get around the right people. These are people that are in my industry. U and reconnect.

And that means tell everybody because you got a real good reason to to uh share that right now because anybody in your situation would feel the same way. You're not laid off. This thing might turn out to be great, but I really really recommend that you do that. And so keep going.

But also, I'm always creating. It's like, you know, I'm going to fly it. I'm flying to Virginia later today and at some point before we take off tonight, they'll show us the emergency exits. I want people doing this same thing professionally.

All right. If I were to be laid off or if you know what what would be my emergency exits. Really important. And a lot of people don't do that and I think you can do that all the time.

yourself in a in a good space. Last thing I want to say, Cindy, and I know George is going to want to say something, too. I'm putting you on the spot, pal. Uh, I want your son to hear from us that his mom has done a

phenomenal job taking care of him. And buddy, listen to the details today and sit down and talk to mom about what she's done and you learn from her, but also I want you to thank her. Give her a big hug because she has really done a phenomenal job taking care of you, pal.

>> No notes. That was perfect.

>> So, thank you. I was just hoping you would have an analogy for the seat as a flotation device. You know, in the career field, what is that? The severance is >> Well, no. I'll tell you what it is. Uh your connections are the flotation device. >> And what about the mask? What are we doing with the mask? >> The mask is the money stuff. So, if I've got the emergency fund, I mean, I know that I'm not in desperation. I'm not going to die. We take the mask. That's the money.

>> Stability. That's the mask. And then the flotation devices. I got connections. I got jobs. People want me. They love me.

Keep going.

[Music]

[Music]

All right, let's go to Joseph in Louisville, Kentucky. Joseph, how can we help?

Hey guys, appreciate you taking my call.

>> Sure. >> I have a plumbing business. It's a oneman show, so it's only me.

One question is, should I have a separate emergency fund for that business? My other question is, I have

some debt like a van and I also have

some plumbing equipment debt.

I can write that off 100%. But should I

just pay it off instead?

>> Yes.

In in short, uh number one, you should have a separate checking account and savings for the business >> as some reserves there.

>> So, you have that separated.

>> It is separated, but I didn't know if I actually needed a sixmonth emergency fund. No, a business wouldn't operate like your personal household would, but your reserves will will sort of act like that. And as you've done the business over a long period of time, you'll kind of know what kind of emergencies you might be facing in a business situation.

And part of that is reducing your risk will leave you not needing to touch that. And so part of reducing risk is getting rid of that debt because the debt isn't, you know, Joe's Joseph's plumbing business. The you signed the dotted line on that. So it's your personal debt. Correct.

>> So, I would pay it off. I don't I'm not a fan of this like, well, I can write it off. It's not a dollar for-doll deduction here, >> right? And so, >> it's not a big deal.

>> I have So, I have a I could pay it off.

I have 127,000 in my personal account.

>> Awesome. And what's the debt?

>> 125 in my business account. I have a

$20,000 emergency fund separate from that in my savings account.

Everything is paid off except for my house. I owe 32,000 and I my payment is

21161 a month.

>> What's the What's left on the van?

>> 40,000 on the van and 25,000 on equipment. >> So I could pay it off without a problem.

>> So why what is keeping you from doing that?

>> It's almost like rent to own. So, I was

thinking it may be safer to keep that money on hand, but also I have no problem with I'm not

in love with the money. I have no problem with letting it go and paying the debt off.

>> Yeah. It's not rent to own. That analogy is kind of weird for me, but you know, look, this is a van that is depreciating every day and the debt is not doing anything. And you're What's your interest payment on that?

>> 6.39. So, what's the monthly payment on that van?

>> 669. >> Yeah. None of this makes any sense for somebody who's got >> You said there's 211 plus 669.

>> No, the 211 is >> his home payment is >> Oh, $211 a month.

>> So, how much will you free up by paying off these debts?

>> 1400 >> a month.

>> Yes. And you have the money, you have the cash to pay off >> the plumbing equipment plus your house,

>> right? >> Dude, if you just like wrote a check today and were done with all of this and invested all those payments, you'd be so wealthy, you would laugh at the tax write off money you'd be making.

>> Now I am 50 and I have zero retirement.

>> Free you up to put $1,400 away into retirement accounts. Now, why? What stopped you from investing?

>> I just started this business a few a couple of years ago. So, my cash flow hasn't always been what it is today.

>> So, you're full-time plumbing? >> Not paid off the house.

>> Yeah. Full-time. Good for you.

>> I have not paid off the house because at

211 a month, I would rather have the $32,000. I could collect cans and pay 211 a month. That has been my logic on

that. No, we've heard that. We've heard that a million times. Uh, how much is the van worth?

>> It's brand new. I just bought it in February.

>> You didn't Well, how much is it worth? I know what you owe on it. What What could you sell it for?

>> I honestly have no idea. I paid 54,000

for it, so I've already paid it down 14,000 in the last since February.

>> All right. I mean, a van is a It's got all your plumbing tools in it. Correct.

>> Correct. Nobody's riding in it.

>> Just you.

>> Just me. >> So, you could get a cheap van, get it wrapped nice, and probably save 20 grand right there. You sold it and got a cheaper one. >> That's where I'm going.

>> Well, uhoh. >> The thing the equipment I have will absolutely not fit in a minivan.

>> I never said minivan. >> Nobody said a minivan. >> I was just saying you didn't need to buy a brand new minivan. I'm >> No, no, no.

I actually would really respect a guy who rolls up to be my plumber in a minivan. >> I know I'm not getting ripped off if a guy shows up in a minivan. was getting ready to say that for some reason I trust a plumber in a minivan. >> I see a plumber in a fancy new van.

I go, he's going to price gouge me cuz he's got payments on that thing. >> I agree with the big fancy wrap.

>> Well, let me let me play this game with you. If you freed up the mortgage plus your debt payments, is that now like 1,600 a month?

>> Correct. Yes. >> And could you invest more on top of that?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. So, how much could you invest every month on top of the 1,600 to get

set for retirement?

>> On top of the 1,600, I could do another 2,000. It's >> 3,600 a month, you could just start shoveling into investments.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Well, from age 50 to 67, you shovel 3,600 away, you could end up with almost $2 million.

>> Correct. Yep. I've done the math on that. Well, math is one thing. Doing it is a whole another thing, isn't it? >> Well, I just now sort of got turned on to Dave Ramsey, so I'm kind of >> good. Learning.

>> Yeah, he's wanted to make sure this was the right step before I paid.

>> Yeah. We recommend any business, any entrepreneur, do it with cash and move at the speed of cash. Do it slow. Don't get ahead of yourself. Don't say you're investing in the business by taking on payments or new fancy equipment. Just cash flow it. And it's going to reduce your risk, increase your peace, increase your chance of surviving. if something were to happen in the business and uh I hope the business continues to thrive.

Sounds like you're doing great. >> Yeah, me too. I appreciate that. Yeah.

>> Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. >> Yeah, Joseph, listen, you're doing great. I would love for America to hear this. Uh how long ago did you become a

plumber and what was the uh qualification process like? What was the length of that and the cost to become a plumber? Well, so I started my business. I just got started in this four years ago.

>> Okay. How long was the qualification process? >> But someone wants to become a plumber.

They have to be an apprentice for a couple of years. Then they have to be a journeyman for a couple of years. So you're looking at, you know, four years, >> right? Okay. And you did that.

>> You only have to be you only need a masters if you're doing if you're pulling permits. You don't have to have a mast's, >> right? How much did it cost for you to become qualified? >> It doesn't It doesn't cost anything. I mean, it cost the price of a test.

>> I'm just asking you a straightforward question. I can't get the answer. >> Couple hundred. >> There we go. Couple hundred bucks for you to get that train. >> And now you're making what?

>> As a soloreneur.

>> Will this year be 250 before taxes?

>> Ding, ding, ding. >> This is what I wanted people to hear.

All right. The trades are exploding.

This is a guy who's crushing it. Way to go, Joseph. Uh, thanks for sharing that.

For every five plumbers that are getting out of the business, there are only two to replace them. >> Exactly. >> Which means we desperately need people like Joseph to get involved.

>> There's a massive opportunity right now in the trades and this is real life examples. >> So four years, which is what undergrad would would take you, a few hundred bucks, which is a heck of a lot cheaper than undergrad, and you could be making a quarter of a million dollars running your own business, owning your time.

>> You didn't notice any student loans in there, did you? >> Nothing. >> Nothing in there. telling you folks, this is amazing. Little PSA to America's

parents that listen to the show and grandparents who have influence over young people.

The world is changing and this idea that a college degree is the only way to succeed is crumbling and it's crumbling

faster. Gallup put out new data, George, first of this year. 46% of American parents, listen to this folks, 46% of American parents would prefer their kids go into trades instead of a college path. And that is because they see the handwriting on the wall.

And I'm telling you, we got to stop looking down our nose at the trades. Because you're going to look up 5 years from now, 10 years from now, there's going to be a lot of millionaires in this country who did exactly what Joseph did.

All right. This is good, honorable work, and it creates jobs. Remember, small business is what fuels the American economy. There you go. Thank you very much, America.

[Music]

[Music]

All right. Our question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. You've tried budgeting. You've tried making minimum payments, but those defaulted private student loans are still weighing you down. Yi might be able to help. Learn

more at yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

It's not available in all states.

Today's question comes from Tucker in Washington. The company I've been with for just a few months is experiencing financial struggles. Upper Management has mentioned in a couple of companywide meetings that there are only 10 months of cash left and we have had negative cash flow month after month. I left my previous job because my manager was extremely toxic and the company culture wasn't good.

Will two employment stints of less than a year be a red flag on my resume. I just got married 6 months ago and we want to start a family soon, so my job will be our sole source of income. Would it be wise to begin looking for another job or should I wait and see what happens with the company in a year? >> Yes.

I think you should start looking yesterday. >> Here's the narrative because I understand the question, George. Uh, two jobs on the resume. You got to tell the truth.

You don't bash them.

got this other job. This is the story I was told. Story changed. Here's where we're at." So, I've just I've had some really bad luck, you know. Uh and that's

different than you flaking. It's not you job hopping. >> Yeah. So just control the narrative and uh absolutely be looking and uh don't

have any shame over this. Um you know, you just got to take control of the situation. Now I will tell you this, the job market is a lot tougher right now.

Uh it's what we call a soft job market where companies are sitting tight kind of waiting to see what's going to happen with all the tariffs. That's one of the big things. A lot of uncertainty right now as to what's going on there and um

the economy is uh you know with interest rates, what the Fed going to do. So when we get into a lot of uncertainty

uh in the macro economy, companies tend

to just slow down when it comes to hiring and we're seeing that. This is a soft market. Unemployment is up into the low fours. So yeah, I would not, you

know, ride this out and ride the wave.

Not smart. and then just wait till the buzzer beater when they lay you off to go, "Oh, guess I should look for a job." Yeah. Especially in this case because he's the sole income. >> And the writing is very much on the wall here. They're telling you straight up.

>> And you know what else? I want to make sure I cover this. If your wife has the

ability, I don't know what the family situation is, but if she has the ability to work, I would absolutely for a season if you can do it and it makes financial sense to do it, I would do it in this time as well. stacking up a little bit of extra cash that might be able to help us if this thing goes and falls before you can uh you know get another job. So this is when we we act like a storm is coming. What do we do when we know a storm is coming and and let's act accordingly.

Ethan is up in Athens, Georgia. Ethan, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Really appreciate it. >> Sure. >> Um so I was driving a 2005 Toyota Camry

uh and I got totaled. I have a year left in law school and I'm trying to set a budget on buying a new well not a new car but a used car. >> Did you get any money for the Camry?

>> Yeah, so I got 6,000 for the Camry. I

have about 10K in liquid cash and then another uh 40,000 right now in stocks.

>> Non-retirement. You've just been investing on the side in single stocks.

>> Yeah. Well, not single. I've been trying to buy like the bonds and uh mutual funds and stuff like that, but yeah.

>> Okay. Okay. Do you have any debt?

>> No. No debt whatsoever. >> Wow. You're going through law school debtree?

>> Yes, sir. >> How'd you do that? >> Wow.

>> Did you get a full ride or what?

>> Yeah, I did. >> Wow. Okay. Stud. Stud. All right. So, you're asking us um how much car should you get?

>> Pretty much. Yeah.

>> Well, I mean, you're going to want something that'll get you through law school and beyond. And so, you can spend more than 6K. You're in a good spot financially. Are you working at all? Do you have any income right now?

>> Right now, I have no income, but I already have a job set for uh next October once I pass the bar.

>> Fantastic. And it will it be in the current area or are you moving somewhere?

>> A bit more uh towards Atlanta.

>> Yeah.

Well, uh George, I don't know if you got a formula for this because he doesn't have an income and he has no debt and he's going to be making really good money. What kind of money you going to be making first year?

I'll be making 190 my first year,

>> bro. Ethan debt free making that kind of money with a full ride. >> Are you single?

>> Uh, yeah. Not right now.

>> Not for long. With those numbers, >> hey, the ladies will be coming around for that one. I would just be reasonable for any young person, especially dudes.

They tend to over buy in car cuz they want to flex. I hope that's not you. You don't seem like the type. So, I would just buy something reasonable. What have you been looking at? I know you've been car shopping a little bit.

>> Yeah, I've been just looking at new Camry. Something like late teens with less than 100,000 miles. That's something newer, but I'm not spending everything that I have. >> How much are those cars?

>> Uh, between 15 and 20,000.

>> I was going to throw the number of 20 out and let George react to me just based on your situation. >> 20 felt like my upper limit for just a young dude. >> I'm taking the flag here. >> Top line 20 is what I was going to say.

>> Okay. And if you need to sell some stocks to do it, I would. I wouldn't be in any single stocks. I don't know why you're even in bonds at this age. You're not 70. You shouldn't be worried about long-term market returns if you want.

>> I think he's an old soul. I'm going to guess he's an old soul.

>> Is that true?

>> Uh, yeah. Something I inherited from my grandpa. >> Okay, there we go. >> Yeah, I I could hear it on you. You you are very mature.

>> I would go car shopping. I would stick to independent used car dealerships uh and Facebook Marketplace. Get a pre-purchase inspection on whatever you get. And I would also search the exact year, make, model. Do your research and know exactly what recalls have been made on that exact model. What are the classic repairs that tend to happen on that car? And that will give you a lot of confidence as you step into it.

>> All right. Awesome. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate you, man. And listen, buyer beware.

tight lipped when you go to the uh car dealer. Don't tell them you're paying cash right up front. Don't tell them that. Don't tell them you're in law school.

Don't tell them you got $190,000 job waiting on you. They will be on you like vultures on roadkill. I mean all over you. So just keep it tight like you're playing some poker.

Focus on the out. Say, "Hey, I'd like to just talk about the out the door price." That's it. That's what I want to focus on. I don't want to talk about payments.

That's right. >> Here's my budget. And if you walk in with a check for that amount, >> oh boy, >> they're and you walk, you have some walk away power. >> Oh boy, >> I love that game.

>> These guys will start singing. They really will. They'll line up like a choir for you.

They'll be the manager, the assistant manager. You ever seen these guys? It's hilarious. There's always like seven people in the back, >> you know? >> They always have to go They have to go into the back to talk to some mysterious >> figure. I always love that.

>> My manager is going to take me to the cleaners if I give you this deal, man. But I'll do it for I'll do it for you. >> Hold on one second. Don't tell anyone.

Give me a few minutes. I got to go back. And it's like it's like he's the Wizard of Oz. >> Do they all go to the same heeie-jeeby schley school?

>> Take a little vape break. And then come back and say, "All right, >> I think it is a vape. >> I could get in a lot of trouble for this one." Yeah, >> but we can make it work. >> This is the best I can do. I love that

one. I uh >> I can't stand it. >> I can't either. kind of we'll just Can I walk back there with you? Because I think we could we could speed this negotiation up. If you walked me back to the Wizard of Oz, >> I'm sure it's okay. I'm sure he's going to be fine if I go back there with you. But it's the whole you all stay out of here. Can I get Can I get you something to drink? Can I get you a bottle of water? No, you can get me a good deal.

That's all I'm here for. >> I don't care about the bottle water. In fact, my wife and I brought a cooler. We have our own bottle of water.

>> My wife can't go into those places. She has to sit in the car cuz she's too uncomfortable. Isn't it? >> Yeah. I like the conflict. I like the negotiation. >> You do. You know what you do? You get right to the fees. >> Yeah. >> You go from the window price to what are the fees on this? I know you.

>> Oh, I don't do if they have anything other than a small dock fee, I'm walking away. They start pitching me on, hey, we did the window tint and we get the t Nope. I'm out. Take that off of here.

I'm getting out of here. >> Yeah. >> Sales price plus tax, maybe a $100 dock fee or I leave. >> You might as well be on Shark Tank.

I'll bet you sit there and you cross your arms. Oh, the the guys at the dealership, they see me coming in, they go, "Not today. I don't want to deal with this guy." >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> My last car though, the finance office called me and said, "Hey, we noticed you were paying cash." And we just think that's a terrible idea. It's a much better It's smarter to find. >> You scream, "Do you know who I am?" >> I almost went, "Hey, just Google me. I can't deal with this right now.

You're a flex. That's a flex." >> Yeah. >> Hey, listen, Mr. Finance Manager.

I'm going to send you a link. I'd like to click on it. It's called Breaking Free from Broke. You should read it.

Oh, look at that, folks. He snuck the book promo in just like that. I didn't even see it coming. It's a great book.

[Music]

Our

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scripture of the day comes from Hebrews 13:7. Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Our quote from John F.

Kennedy. Forgive your enemies, but never

forget their names.

All right. Two interesting things there.

Contrasting. >> I'll chew on that. >> Chew on that. Tyler is up in Maryland.

Tyler, how can we help?

>> Hey, how are you? >> Good. How are you?

>> I'm all right. >> How can we help? >> Um, well, I was calling in because uh I

mean I found myself in a uh situation with my wife and I um we recently moved

October of 2024 um from our first home

to this being our second. And um it was

pretty much at the top of our price range, pardon me. Um we want I've lived

in eight different homes growing up and we have a we have a 2-year-old son and just found out we have another one on the way. >> Um and it was really Yeah, he's a tornado. Um but it was really important to me that like um we both wanted him to have like a house that he grew up, you know, all of our kids just have a house they grew up in. So, we stretched. Um,

we knew that we would be a little house poor, but we figured if we can, you know, uh, tighten our tighten our belt

and, you know, um, spend wisely that

eventually our salaries will, you know, kind of, I guess, catch up to where our mortgage was. Um, and that was before,

you know, I really got into, uh, Dave Ramsey and and learn more about the finances. Um, so since then we've been,

you know, going on a year here and the mortgage is about $4,500 a month and our

net uh income per month is about 9,400.

So I think it's like a 47% which is, you

know, double what I know is recommended.

Um, so in addition to that, we have um

we only have one car payment, which my truck have three years left on it. About 15,000 left. Um, >> what's the payment?

>> Uh, payment's about 536 a month.

Um, my wife also has student loans, which is probably a total like 20,000.

Um, and it was through uh um the carrier

that she was using, I guess, had a class action lawsuit. Um, I guess somebody advised her not to pay us, so we stopped. And then that's now bringing our credit down. So, now we're trying to get current on that. Um and then we have

uh uh credit card debt which is probably total like around 20,000 between um

three different cards. Um so pretty much

what I'm thinking what I think is inevitable at this point um you know with having a family and with now

realizing how expensive kids are and you know un unknown expenses and and

activities for them and toys for them.

It's I'm kind of thinking getting out of this house might be the best thing for our family to to downsize to a smaller

house with a a much lower mortgage. I just want to get your take on that.

>> What could you sell the house for and what's left on the mortgage?

>> So, we bought it for about 600 and this

is about a year ago. Um, we're thinking

about refinancing which would then put another 15 onto it because of the fees.

Um, but I I think it I don't we won't

get 600. I don't think I think it's going to be an it would be a short sale.

>> Why would it be a short sale?

>> Well, I just don't it it was on the market for probably about 4 months. Um, it started out like 750 and it went all the way down to 600 before we we uh bought it. >> How much did you put down? Um when we didn't put anything out bought to uh the VA.

>> Man, this is heartbreaking.

>> Yeah, it's I I'm having buyer's remorse

and I think I'm I'm starting to realize

what's what's probably inevitable where my wife is like very in love with the house and, you know, it's perfect for our big family, which is what she wants.

But I just, you know, I come home and it's like I just feel like there's just no peace at all. Like I know.

>> Is she aware of this? Is she aware of how you're feeling? >> She's aware. Yeah, I we've talked about it. her her game plan, which is what we're doing now, I I'm I'm giving her the grace of just seeing how it works, was uh tightening our belt more um and

not spending as much and whatever um whatever surplus we have at the end of, you know, each week or each month, our checking account will just apply to toward bills. Um, but when I do our

budget, um, between our net income and all the bills or the credit cards, the loans, etc., we're like, 1300 in the whole.

>> So, you're going to continually go into debt at this rate.

>> Yeah. Yep. >> You can't even live off of $9,400 a month.

>> Yeah. >> So, there's no tightening. >> And I And is she working full-time?

>> Already? Yeah, we both work full-time.

So there's no, you know, there's no dream here where we go, well, we're making double now because she's working full-time. So if there's no room here to wiggle on income, you don't see your income shooting up in the next 6 months and you're going to continually go into debt, then I think we just have to cut our losses and get out of this house. I would try to still get as much as you can for it.

>> Yeah. >> But you don't have any equity, so it doesn't really it doesn't solve your problems. It's going to cost you money to get out of this house and you don't even have that money.

>> Yeah. >> What could you sell the truck for?

>> Um I on KBD it looks like it was valued at around 10,000. So I'm a little upside down on it, which is what I'm trying to put my uh you know, I drill monthly for the army. So I'm trying to put those checks toward this to to pay it down as quickly as possible, >> man. And this I'm trying to figure out

how you have $5,000 or 6,000 or 7,000 of

expenses on top of the mortgage.

>> Yeah, >> you guys are spending like you're in Congress. There's a lot of just entertainment, luxury eating out here. I think I think it's more than just covering the bills.

>> Uh yeah, I agree. My my wife, you know, well, when we when we got in the house, it was we we we were spending like kings and queens. It was our own fault, you know. We we had a really uh a tough conversation about it about a month ago and we're like, you know, we

we really tried you we went to like a cash budget where, you know, we'll take out X amount each week once we get paid and this is what we have to spend. There's no credit cards. Um we're not putting anything on debit card. Um so, but even that it's we're still we're still in the hole. Like it's just between kids stuff and now a new, you know, a new one on the way. It's I just don't see it uh working out in our favor by staying in this house.

>> Yeah. I mean, you're going to Could you go rent somewhere for two grand, three grand? >> Yeah. In our area there there's uh there's some places that our rent uh for about 25 or 3,000 like >> So that'll save you the >> two grand that you're, you know, losing.

So instead of going 15 grand into debt, maybe we could save five grand.

>> Here's a question I have, George. Tyler, I'm asking this on your behalf. you know, every dollar, which is obviously it's not just a budgeting app. I mean, it's FPU, it's the baby steps. I mean,

it's helping people. And when we talk about on the show, we're telling people, this is real, that in less than 15 minutes, people are finding thousands of dollars of margin. We know that from every dollar. That's what we're hearing.

My question is, if you're sitting in his kitchen right now, okay, how much do I

think you could find money in this current? And that's why I'm saying whenever I see, well, the mortgage is 4,500. They're bringing in 10 grand.

There's room here. There's some spending that we can ratchet. >> I think there is there's more cutting.

>> It's going to be a fight. It's going to be, well, I'm used to doing this and now you're taking this away from me. And so, I don't want this to be you versus her.

This needs to be you walking hand in hand, looking in the same direction going, we need to come to Jesus meeting cuz we're going to go 15 grand into the hole. The way we're spending, we already can't get out of this as is. We need to do something drastic and that means selling the house and renting and cutting our spending and working a second job >> for at least two years to clean this up.

>> I really want you guys in every dollar and that's going to be our gift to you.

So, Kelly's going to take care of it. You you and your wife got to commit to using it. >> Do you understand what I'm saying? Because it it literally >> it will coach you up.

It is so unbelievable all the the new things they've added to it. So, um, you guys got to commit to getting in control of the spending and finding ways to make some more money after selling this house just to give you more margin. By the way, George, I want to mention, this is super exciting.

You're going to see some amazing success stories. You're a part of that. That's right. >> We want you to turn on your YouTube notifications to get notified when the premiere drops.

And I've said it a couple times today, just kind of naturally. George, 10 seconds or give us 5 seconds on the new Every Dollar. It's unreal. >> Well, it's going to digitally coach you like we would on the Ramsay Show and walk with you step by step through the baby steps on top of helping you do your budget.

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live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show we help

people build wealth do work that they

love and create actual amazing

relationships Ken Coleman number one

bestselling author of the book paycheck to purpose host of the Ken Coleman show

Ramsey personality is my co-host today

thank you for joining us America the phone number is

88255 225 Clayton is in Little Rock

Arkansas hey Clayton welcome to the Ramsey Show Hey sir how are you guys

better than we deserve brother what's up

awesome man well you know first of all I

just want to say it really is an honor to speak to you guys I'm a huge fan of the show I've watched countless YouTube

clips Etc and I think you guys are out there changing lives so I want to start off with that well thank you sir

how can we help you today absolutely well you know I uh I'll

kind of start from a broad overview and I'll kind of break it down if that's okay with you um just you know my my

broad overview question Dave um is

really just how not to get discouraged

in the wealth building process um I'll

give you some background information I'm

27 years old my wife is 30 um we have a

combined net worth of around probably

200,000 or so wow yeah it's right there

my number thank you and um I make about

58,000 60,000 on my primary job and I do

a side hustle um and but total I make

around 80 to 90 kind of depending on the

year and my wife makes around 72 um the

only thing that we owe on is our home we

both have MBA uh degrees we have no

Consumer Debt no car loans anything like

that um my home is currently worth

probably around 300,000 um and I owe about

195 um we we we have two

kids um and overall life is good um you

know we we're still in the process of trying to button everything up we're investing 10% right now I know I need to

get that number to 15 uh my home's on a

15-year note uh we're trying to get our kids college you know all that sit

situated so there's nothing really on

fire uh per se but in general

I really do believe what you guys teach and I believe you know we we we give 10%

of our income to the church I mean I'm a really big believer in living with in your means not saying we're perfect by any means you've done a great job Clayton I mean your numbers are amazing

for your age way to go you make $160,000

a year you have no debt except your house everything's on track you're killing it right right well man you know

I I I I I really do believe it and I I

appreciate it but at the same time um

like I I think long term right like I'm

yeah but have you done the math huh have you done the

math right right yeah yeah if you save

15% of $160,000 that's going to be a million

dollar in 10 years dude right right and that's with no

match have you got a match yes sir yes

sir do the math right right well you know man it

just did you do the math no yes sir I

did yes okay then did you see 10 years you're going to be a millionaire at 20 at 37 years old yes sir yes sir so how

is that discouraging you know I don't know man I

just like I look at life right and I

know comparisons the thief of joy and I

don't you know I try not to go there in my head but comparison to if anything

you compare to you should be ahead

of right right right well you know just

I it's okay if I give you some background some more background information is that okay understand it's

okay I'm trying to understand why you're discouraged there's no reason to be I'm

I'm really confused with that cuz dude

you're in the top 2% of America you're

killing it just I I just think like

longterm Dave I think

when I just see how everything is so

expensive and even when I pay off my

home and I have all my retirement accounts Etc I just you know like I'm

trying to really set my family up so

like in 10 years my daughter will be 13

right and I'm trying to almost get ahead of

the game where I can make sure we can go on big vacations you know take care of

her college and I realize okay I'll Be A

Millionaire but I just it feels like

everything's so expensive and it's such a long proc and I realize that you know

wealth isn't obtained easy I'm not trying to say that but it it is it is a

long process 10 10 years is a lot longer

than 10 minutes and most people most

people have the attention span of a gat

that's why they're not able to build wealth I I've been I've been listening Clayton and I I've been where you are I

I actually I I hear me 10 years ago on

this phone call so I I just want to say

this your issue is not comparison your

issue is fear and you're afraid you're

not going to be able to do the things that you would like to do because you're too stuck in the headlines and what you're not focusing on is as Dave has

pointed out you're crushing at number one you're really ahead of the game this is all got a compound for you and you're going to be fine you're going to take some great vacations but what you're not focused on is is what you can actually

do you're you're focused on all these outside circumstances the economy

inflation whatever else is going on in your head you do need to quit witching the news yeah you need to start focusing on your income and what what you're going to make next year and the year after that and how you're going to be able to make more money and that you can

go out and determine your financial

future you're already great but you're

you're forgetting and all this headline

stuff and all this fear and comparison

here's what you're forgetting your ability your wife's ability to put a

financial plan that includes increasing

income you're going to be able to pay for all those things yeah your income

not gonna be stagnant for the next 10 years

absolutely I don't know if that helps you Clayton you got to shake all that stuff off you're inside your head so deep Andor here the thing the secret to

happiness is low expectations and I'm a little bit afraid you thought when you made $160,000 you were going to be rich

that's a very good point and you're not

rich at $160,000 with two kids there's

no it's no cake you thought it was going to be on Easy Street like everything's going to like you're going to be flying in a private jet or something and you know it's 160 Grand you're not so you

got a lot more you got double the household income of the average American you're in the top one or two% of the average Americans your age with where

you are with no debt and already having a a positive net worth of a couple

hundred, you are killing it and you

actually are paying attention which puts you way above almost everyone who walk

around with their head stuck in the fog

and um that was kind thought that was

very I did that I did that for radio did

you hear that yeah and um yeah I mean

that that's you're incredible you're

doing great you're doing great calm down

enjoy the ride buddy you you really I

can't I can't tell you enough to do this over and over and over again enjoy the ride I I want to say one other quick encouragement because Dave I think you're absolutely right I just want to Echo what Dave said we have with all

young generations and throughout history but even more so now because we're in the social media era God help us I know

unrealistic expectations lead to unmet

expectations I I can't say that enough I

wish I could preach that message to every young person world because here's the deal you nailed it they think when they get to six figures I thought you

talking about my golf game and your golf game oh yeah unrealistic expectations

are unrealistic unmet expectations

that's it no I just my golf game is in the last category just unmet

period it doesn't matter that's what it

is cuz here's the thing when you make $100,000 a year you thought it was going to be easy and when you make a million

dollars a year you thought it was going to be easy it don't get easy MH it just

gets better than if you don't pay attention that's all it does this is the

ramsy show there's a time in your life

anded the baby steps for red ing but you

don't want to do it forever because when

you rent you're still paying for a mortgage just somebody else's plus rent

means instability in your budget because

it always goes up never down so when

you're ready to buy make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on

Church Hill mortgage Church Hill is

ramsy trusted to help you make the move

from renting to home ownership wisely

Churchill understands that when you buy

a home the ramsy way your mortgage pay payment will be a consistent manageable

part of your monthly budget plus when your home is paid off that was your

largest expense now it's extra money in

your pocket and an asset towards turning

you into a baby steps millionaire get

started on the American dream of home ownership today at Churchill mortgage.com that's Churchill mortgage.com

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones atle 882

55225 this is the Ramsey show thank you

for being with us America Tanner is with

us in Washington DC hi Tanner how are

you I'm good how are you better than I

deserve what's up so my question is I'm curious about

the flexibility of spending more than

30% of your takh home pay on rent found

that pretty difficult to do especially in like an urban area like DC I live in downtown um I make around 990,000 a year

post grad 23y old um I got about 20,000

in cash and 7,000 uh in an investment

account and M mly debt is around seven 7

and a half thousand in student loans and

I spend about $2,000 a month in rent

which is my biggest expense expense by

far but I still find myself able to save

um and spend less on other things I'm just curious your take on on that

approach okay well we tell folks to put

25% of their takehome pay aside for housing and uh no math Works in every

city and in every state you don't get a

pass on math because you're in Washington DC even though Congress thinks you do I was getting ready to say a lot of people think they do yeah a lot of people in DC think you do but you don't uh and the purpose behind it is

not that 25% is Magic Tanner uh the

purpose behind it is don't be house poor if you find yourself able to save and uh

able to invest because you keep all other parts of your life sty so low then

then you're okay but if you're you but what happens to most people is when they've got a high cost of housing in

their budget it squeezes their budget

and there's not room to uh save up to

buy the next car so the next car becomes

debt and there's not room to save up for

Christmas and Christmas becomes debt and

there's not room to save up for a couch

and the couch becomes debt and because

it's all going out in house payment and

so in effect what you did is you uh you

you didn't you know by by squeezing

yourself you did that now you're telling me you've made room in your budget and you're doing okay then you know if whatever you want to do brother but here's the thing whatever you spend on rent is

gone MH I mean you're just setting fire

to $100 bills in the middle of the floor

and so the more $100 bills you burn in the middle of the floor the fewer M less

money you got man I mean it's a pretty simple equation yeah yeah definitely definitely

red is the ability to buy down the road

for sure yeah yeah I mean because you're giving it to them in rent and so I don't

know how you fix that exactly necessarily in your situation maybe your commute is longer maybe there's a roommate involved or uh or maybe you

just say I'm going to it's going to cost me this and it's my choice and I'm an

adult well yeah you're allowed to do all that but our reason to give you giving

you the 25% guideline it's not a rule

it's a guideline is so that you don't

become house po because if you're for instance going to get a mortgage folks in America um the

stupid mortgage company will approve you for almost double that and they'll approve you close to

50% of your take home pay 36% of your uh

ratio you know and so and that's not

based on Tome pay the 36 is that you can

get up house payment up close to half of

your dadgum Tome pay and there's just no

way that budget Works people and well

I'm in California well California they got to do math too even though your Governor doesn't think so you got to do

math you know it's not it's not an option math is math and it's not it's

not a a a moral construct it's a it's a

math thing well to win Tanner in

professional World Financial World

you've got to sacrifice everybody who

wins has to sacrifice something and what

we've done here with this 25% you are

now having to choose do you want to sacrifice money as Dave said by by burning those extra $100 between the 5%

that we're talking about or do you want to sacrifice a little bit of of your time now you're live in downtown DC

that's premium and I get it you may work

on the hill who knows what you do but you're there for a reason but if you move out into the suburbs of Northern Virginia I know it well yes it's a it's

a headache uh but we'd rather you sacrifice the right thing and that's why

we put this I want people to understand what we're teaching here it's not to be hard and fast on a rule it's to help you

learn what you need to sacrifice and in my situation if I were in your situation

Tanner I would be sacrificing my time not my money yeah 23 years old yeah yeah

you know I will tell you this Ken I did

it worse than he's doing it sure worse

yeah he's in good shap my wife and I get out of college and here's how stupid we

were we go and rent a we we have two

dogs we're just out of college we got

two little jobs we go and rent a

three-bedroom townhouse sure luxury

right thing sure that's like five times

what we needed MH because we thought it

was cool do you remember what were in the extra rooms uh

nothing sure cuz by the time we finished

paying the freaking rent we had no money

yeah yeah so what we ended up doing was moving into a little one-bedroom uh

apartment in a questionable uh I don't know what those ladies down the hall were doing in a questionable situation and um you were

hoping you weren't on a Vice episode man

I'm telling you and uh we lived there for a year but it was one

one3 the rent that we were paying before

oneir and so that'd be like you you had

an $1,800 rent and we moved down to a

$600 rent right you know kind of thing

today in today's dollars it was a lot

less than that and the back when the dinosaurs R the Earth but yeah but oh my

gosh wow I did the exact same crap no I

get it I wanted something nice and I had

a job yeah and I'd gotten out of college and I'm I deserved it a lot of 23y olds

that are in a very similar situation tan now just think about this if he gets a roommate and now he's saving let's just

call it $1,000 a month okay splitting

the rent he's paying off that student

loan debt of $7,000 really really fast

and now he's just stacking money so

that's what we're talking Cas stacking

cash man it's so much smarter than renting H paying all that money rent Tyler's in Louisville hi Tyler what's

up um yes had a quick question first of

all you guys are awesome thank you

um uh so I have I'm on baby step 2 and

um been doing ish for a while at the

beginning of the year I got smart and said you're stupid get out of debt um

with the student loans coming back up because I've been basically taking that payment putting it towards everything else mine is Consolidated or I believe

it is at least so um do I look at the

individual loan amounts or do I just

look at the Consolidated amount where I

put it at if it's Consolidated it's now

one amount okay it used to be little loans

if it is one loan I mean if it's if it's

a bunch of little are you pay will you be paying a bunch of little payments or one payment no I pay one payment and

when I look at it I see all the individual ones I took out yeah but you

that doesn't matter the purpose of the

Deb snowball is you want to what what you want to have happen in the debt snowball is you want to um clear a debt

and that payment on that debt to go away

when you clear one of these little debts it doesn't change your payment right that's what I was thinking

I wasn't sure yeah um so I would just

put the total in your debt snowball awesome that works it really

easy thank you sir get after it that's really smart because you know the data is now coming out now that we're actually finding that that you're going to have to pay your student loans which we kind of been telling you for three freaking years but um now that we found

out that we were right again um yes I

just said I Told You So live with it um

but now that we found out you have to pay your student loans there's going to be a lot of questions about student loans and we're one of the things we're finding uh Jade and I were talking about

this earlier is that people uh basically

took the money that they would have been paying on student loans and spent it yes

they did on Vaca vacations alcohol drugs

this is this is the actual surveys you're coming back I went on a party

nice yeah with the money that the

taxpayers told me I didn't have to pay right now because you were in a covid

crisis anybody remember what Co was yeah

it was there it was just a minute ago but it was a crisis if y'all didn't remember and it was such a crisis that nobody could pay their student loans but they were able to use the money that they would have been paying on their student loans and go byy drugs and

alcohol and Vacations so apparently

wasn't too big a freaking crisis what do

I know just going with the data here yeah

that's what happens when you trust a politician with an empty promise that's

not constitutional someone from the

medical community that's to do

math well there's that which is proof

that we've proven that you know once

America got fouchi we figured out what happened this is the Ramsey

show I've been doing this show for over

30 years and some of the saddest calls I

have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible a people that call in and

they spouse has passed away suddenly and

they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills next week yeah how in the middle

of all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep reupping it because I'm like

I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing

that you have money if something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time

to put this stuff in place the cost of stinking Pizza it really is so that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander for all

of our family's needs for insurance for

many years including of course term life

insurance to get a free quote go to 800

356 4282 that's 800 356 4282 or go to

zander.com can Coleman Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author of the book from paycheck to

purpose is my co-host today open phones

atle 8825

5225 thank you for joining us America in

the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the

debt free stage Jared and Christina are

with us hey guys how are you good how

are you welcome where do you guys live

Woodstock Georgia about 40 Mi north of

Atlanta yeah I know it well well welcome to Nashville not a bad drive up here not

bad good to have you so how much debt have you two paid off 136,000 all right and how long did this

take you 7 years to the day that we

bought the house oh okay and what was

your range of income during that seven years uh we started about 60 and ended

about 145 cool what do you'all do for a

living I'm a mechanic for the Post

Office M and I'm a conable u manager at

kenas State University awesome yeah all

right you got a little bit of a commute down there

actually it's only nine nine miles for me oh okay all right not bad all right I

missed I messed up all right so uh 136 7

years sounds like you paid off your house yes all right look at it weird

people way to go you guys what's this

house worth 345 now I'm sorry 345 345

awesome very cool so how much do you

guys have in your retirement savings already uh I think we're at about

100,000 took you know last year was a little bit of a hit on everybody yeah

okay so you're you're going to be about a half million dollar net worth already so you're on your way to be a millionaires in no time way to go that's

fun I just said that out loud did you hear that wow that's pretty stinking

cool guys so what starts you on this

journey seven years ago so actually

started um when we first got married 15

years ago we just celebrated our 15th year anniversary congratulations and so

our first year you know I'm actually not

originally from here so we um knew each

other in person from before and then uh

when I moved here it was really the first time we did anything together um

and we got married um in uh July of 2008

and it was you know the Year great year

to get married so we pretty quickly um

figured out that you know our finances

are will need some um Improvement pretty

quickly uh we had a little bit of debt I

I grew up living pretty frugally um and

so we had some arguments and by the end

of that year we knew we we sold the car

that he had some um debt on and then

when I got a job we actually paid all of

our debt our biggest issue was um the

underwater Mortgage in the for the town

home that um was purchased in

2007 so you know we were kind of bopping

along for a couple years we then we had kids and I ended up staying at home it

was pretty tight um and we were still

kind of trying to figure out where we what are we going to do about the house eventually this has still not come up to

the value that it was and at some point we got an email from our church we go to Woodstock City Church um introducing uh

Financial pce University and um in there I was like ah

you know I'm pretty Frugal keep my

budget um you know after the fact that

kind of tracked of what was spent uh but

it said it'll show you how you can buy

and sell a house so I'm like you know why don't we take this class um so

when we went and took the class I was like you know where have y'all been

before so we did quite a few um things

followed quite a few things um one of them was um we immediately refi that

house to 15 so that we could start

paying um down the the what we owed on

it and um from the 7% interest rate that

I had been paying on it yes essentially

our payment stayed the same but you know more was going so you went down to water three uh was a four run run four at the

time in um 20 it was 2013 um and so yes

2013 I contacted one of elps we loved

her lindsy H um a shout out to her she

came out cuz we knew we couldn't sell the house right away so she showed us what to do you know was just uh um you

know she didn't charge anything for that so we started over the next couple of years we started doing some upgrades to the house like we painted we redid the

not redid the deck but we cleaned up the deck and all some other stuff and so

when the time came in 2016 we were still

kind of figure out where whether we're staying in the area or what not and then our HOA was kind of going down the hill

we decided it was time to put it up for sale um again Lindsay helped us through

that process she was a great selling and

um buying agent there was several um

offers on the house that we were looking at to buy um and um we had had enough

equity out of gotten out enough equity out of the house and we had had some

savings or ra

from a sale of an apartment that I had back home I'm not originally from the US and it was about 20K so we were able to put 20% down like you um teach yes you

not only got out of the bad town home bad HOA that had been upside down but

you were able to put 20% down on the New Deal on the New Deal It Go and then s

years later you paid it off and now it's worth 345 yes you got to feel like a

genius we bought two cars cash during

this time while we were paying this house off yeah wow another shout out I

wanted to do to Rachel I remember her talking about how you know if you want to because I wanted to get um a change

in the career and so I went and took um

classes at a smaller College you know

not a four-year College because that we could cash flow at the time and then now

that I work at KSU I went ahead and finished my bachelor degree debt um with

you know they pay for it they pay for it right and I'm working on my master so quite a few accomplishments along along the way um so how does it feel I want

people who are maybe new to this program going they paid their house off that was

the debt what does it feel like to not

have a house payment now and then as you

look toward the future it's sinking in

it's still not really hit us um but

there were several people I work with that were like oh you need to not worry about that you need to buy this and buy this and go have fun and you can worry

about that later you've got time before retirement and now I've had several guys

come up to me shake my hand like we're proud of you good job that's cool um

they kind of see it can be done now yeah

so yeah and Christina you really I mean

you Ed your game on your whole career that's a nice move it's a very nice move so what was the increase in your pay cuz we looked at the total you guys went from 60 to 145 how much did you increase

so that was incremental um I started

this full-time job in 2018 I was looking

at you know numbers and uh we actually

averaged about 108 my latest promotion

was in January to the manager position that was senior account so how big of a bump was that for you um 14 yeah and or but you know the

previous year I went to senior accountant which that was about she goes

gets the goes and gets the education that is that she can afford in her

budget and then goes to work for a

college and they give her free to

finisher Bachelor so there there's there's a path here called common

freaking sense way to go I'm so proud of

you Heroes excellent job what do you

tell people the key to getting out of debt is stick together talk it through

be in agreement

um you won't always see eye to eye on

everything but work through it yeah make

sure you make sure to get to that point

yeah every morning you know I am the nerd he's the free spirit in the sense

that you know I worry about my

spreadsheets but every Sunday we get together we sit and we just talk you know we dream and so um you know his one

of his hugest contributions is he's actually worked um over time for the

last 10 years six days a week pretty

much every week so there was a lot of

you know it wasn't easy no how old are

you too um 41 today yeah and you happy

birthday and uh and you got a paid for

$350,000 house and I'm 44 and yeah and

you know you're on your way to being millionaires in no time congratulations

we're so proud of you Heroes well done Heroes all right bring the kiddos up give us their names and ages and while

they're coming up we've got a baby steps millionaires book for you a Total Money Makeover book for you and a Financial Peace University membership for you you can use them or give them away that's the live and give box we'll have that for you thanks for coming up to do your debt-free scream so what are their names and ages this is Greg he's 11 M this is

Kira and she's 10 and a half all right

they have no idea yet what their parents have done to change their family tree pretty incredible guys you guys are awesome all right Jared and Christina

Greg and Cara from Woodstock Georgia

136,000 paid off in 7even years house

and every thing making 60 to 145 count

it down let's hear a debt-free Scream 1

2 three we are dead free

yeah this is how it's done I love it she

goes back to school at Community College

yep UPS her game goes and finishes her M

or goes and finishes her bachelor's UPS her game well done guys and he works

overtime like crazy that's right right this is the Ramsey show all right Dave

you have some strong opinions possibly yeah I think so okay

because you really prefer Credit Unions

over big Banks well Credit Unions for

one thing are uh nonprofit which means

that the members the customers own the

credit union so any profits that the

credit union makes goes back into

customer pricing so you get better

interest rate on savings cheaper checking and so on that kind of thing and and but that's what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit

on the credit union so I find very few

Credit Unions that aren't very customer Centric well and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's

Fairwinds they are an incredible Credit

Union that is really out with the heart to help the customer they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really really

good job with customer service and um

the deals that they're offering the Ramsey tribe is incredible yeah absolutely and I love that they encourage getting out of debt they encourage 15-year mortgages I mean it's

like the things that we teach they so line up with and you're right their customer service is unbelievable Winston and I just signed up and we got an

account and I'm not kidding it took less than 5 minutes it was so userfriendly

like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable and then the next day my phone rings and it says Fair wins on my phone so I answered it and talked to

someone there and they said yeah they give calls to every new customer and so

again they just really care about your

experience and I I so so appreciate that

plus anything that you can do at a traditional Branch you can do with them

at fairwinds.org or on their app and

you'll have free access to over 33,000

ATMs hey you guys know how much I hate

banks in general and so for me to do

this is a big deal talk to our friends

at Fairwinds and check out the combined

checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe you

guys it's incredible yeah you guys it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live so go to fairwinds.org

Ramsey Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is

my co-host today thank you for joining us America open phones at

88255 225 Shiloh is with us in Billings

Montana hi Shiloh welcome to the Ramsey

show thank you for having me sure what's

up okay so my question is my husband

works for a company that is uned and

they are potentially going to be

striking fairly soon and um my question

is do we hunker down and wait and ride

it out or do we work on paying off our

debt Bill what what's the best solution

to do uh it depends on the probability of

the strike and let's talk that through for a second okay sure um how long has

he worked for that company seven years

have they ever been on strike while he

worked there no sir when was the last

time they were on strike uh 1997 I think no you do not

hunker down okay okay now if it gets up if it

gets up closer and it heats up and it heats up and it heats up and you feel

like the probability the actual facts

not the emotions the facts of what's

going on indicate that you got a 70 or

an 80% chance they are going to go out

then stop everything and pile up cash

but right now what you've got a bunch of saber rattling you know what I mean by

that yes sir I do now the sounds of War

but there's not going to be

War okay yeah I he he is more confident

that there won't be a strike than I am so yeah that and what what I'm trying to

help you do and I have to do this myself

and you know Ken works with people on

careers and do the same thing is we have to separate uh deloney Jo Dr John

deloney talks about this anytime we're facing uh H an anxiety situation A

trauma situation we have to separate

facts from fears facts are our friends

what you are doing is worrying that's

what you just told me and I do that too

yes sir I do that too but when the facts

are that there's been two meetings and

there was a meltdown and the guy stormed

out and the last time time that happened there was a strike well that's a fact

we're probably going into a strike but

in the meantime what it is it's like I don't like this they could just put us out and we got no idea I don't know what's going on I feel out of control well that's just worrying okay both are normal but we

just have to make good decisions based

on all of that yeah and one of the

things you want to look at okay go ahead

go ahead well we have enough in our

savings account to pay off all of our

Consumer Debt do it um

so just go ahead and do it and then yep

we'll be okay okay that makes sense you

won't have any of those payments if you go on strike it' be great that's right

and then Shiloh you and your husband need to be aware because every Union is

different but the one of the major potential strikes that's coming down the pike is UPS right now and in that

particular this is one of the largest un the largest Union in the country you need to find out that's where he works for as UPS okay so I actually okay I

actually know a little bit about this story okay then wait a minute I may change my answer so tell me what's going on no no actually Dave is still right

what we want to do is is that has been reported that that the union is saying and this is posturing as well but your

husband's got to know how much am I

going to get paid during this strike and

for how long because these unions have money set aside for strikes Dave but it

is not a per it's not forever and ever

and ever and so what you have to look at is you have to get the numbers we could

survive I'll continue to get paid for

three months if the strike goes beyond so these are the kind of facts that Dave is talking about he's right we pay attention to this and we go okay I know that the market share that UPS would

lose to FedEx in three months it never

recover from that's right and it'll never happen but the point is is the unions have enough money in a pool your

husband needs to find out how long when

I get paid for and see this is the point

that Dave is making so we could survive

we pay off the debt and we replenish that emergency fund even in a one month

strike CU I don't think it goes longer

than 30 days I don't think it go I don't think it ever these are the facts that you're talking about Dave so you got to know yeah that okay I had no I didn't I

didn't have this other information this is different it's very good but I I now

I'm even more now I'm even more sure

that's right pay off your debt work your system I I'm not saying there's never

going to be a strike I would just say there's a very not going to last a long time let me tell you UPS cannot afford it no can't afford it FedEx will eat

their lunch yeah they'll be gone they would lose they you it the

business aspect of that is just mindboggling so yeah no no you're good

you're good very good and one other point to point out this is like this is like dims and Republicans uh posturing

over the debt ceiling let me just tell you it don't matter who they are I've been old enough I've been around long enough to know they're going to keep extending the debt so I I hear that headline oh it's going to shut the world down no it's not the Republicans are going to shut the world down they're going to keep extending the debt this is posturing a negotiation you know this well so in this case nothing to worry

about here at all you're going to be paid at least a month as well even the

union folks are saying we have about three months worth of dues set aside

that would pay our members while we're

striking so those are the nuances but

actual facts that help you make this decision massive deal wow I'm I'm going

to read on this I'm really ignorant okay

fine hey that's why you pay me and I

truly don't like being ignorant so I I don't mind you being smarter than

me oh no I'm not I just have to pay

attention to work rated issues like this

you know Morgan with us

Louisiana hi Morgan how are you I'm

great hi Dave thank you for taking my

call sure how can we help um so yes sir

so I am kind of in a situation my

husband and I um we have been married almost three years in February and um we

have our finances uh separate um I have

three children and he has one daughter who's in college um and so we're just

trying to figure out how to go about uh

combining the finances um with the

salary I make and his salary and what we

owe and expenses in that nature what

steps do you advise us what do we begin

it's so many how long ago were you

divorced oh gosh mine was uh in 15 okay

and uh was money money problems a

contributing factor no sir well how long ago was he

divorced uh he was uh I believe 18 2018

mhm more money problem a contributing

factor uh yes sir yeah okay so at some

point in your new marriages you have to

be married to the person you are married to now not the one you used to be

married to meaning he can't

hold her misbehavior with money against

you and use that as a reason to not

combine finances that's why I ask those

questions this is typically what causes people to not combine their finances who have been married once they got trashed the last time mhm and it's hard not it's

hard it's hard to go back you know it's hard to go oh yes I'm going to treat you

know but he really has as a part of his

healing from that other divorce is his

commitment to you and the two of you

combining your finances so tactically what you do is uh we change our we

change our Proverbs I'm Proverbs we

change our pronouns okay it's our money

not your money my money it's our our

income it's our debt it's our house it's

our grocery bill there's not a yours and

mine if you don't do this you lower your

probability of Building Wealth

tremendously all of the data that we

have says that people that work together

have a much higher probability of

becoming wealthy than those who run two separate households like a couple of freaking

roommates absolutely Dave and and that's

how we both feel that we're just like

you know room so you just put it in one

pile you have one pile of income at the

top of the page yours plus his equals

our and then we have our expenses down

the page our food our lights our water

our house our our hour our vacation uh

we're visiting your mother and we are

paying for that and whatever it is right that kind you got it it's all the way down the page and if you guys are paying

for his daughter's call

that's our expense cuz you married her

when you married him yes right am I am I

am I off track here you are on track and

I'm going to say I to um am at fault in

struggling with the finance in the first marriage yeah so we both have been um

you got to forgive the person you're married to now cuz they didn't do

anything

wrong it's hard though cuz it's human

nature to not put your hand out once a dog bch you you know ouch this is the

Ramsey

[Music]

Show live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships thank you for joining us America I'm Dave Ramsey your host Ken Coleman Ramsey personality host of the

Ken colan show and author of the number one selling book from paycheck to

purpose where he helps people with their

careers their jobs and their work and

he's going to be doing that today right here on the Ramsey Show phone number here is 88255 225 Louisa is with us in

Washington DC hi Louisa how are you good

afternoon so great to be speaking with

you today thank you so much for taking my call thank you what's up all right

I've got a what would Dave scenario and

I'm pretty sure I know what you're going to say but I kind of just want to walk through some options I have and it's concerning my mortgage so a little bit

of background um I have an arm um that

resets every November and um it hasn't

really been you know much of an issue until recently obviously because the

rates have gone up so it is resetting

from 4 and a half to 6 and a half%

joyful um yep the balance on the loan is

999,000 I've actually paid off 2,000 in

the last year and I am on track to pay

this off my goal is December of 2025

okay so here are the scenarios I just

want to walk through want to get your thought um option one is just to you

know stick stick with you know stick with the the new payment coming up in

November uh my payment is actually going

down $180 even with the rate going up

because I've paid off so much so it's actually going down um $ so that's

option one is just proceeding with you know 6 and a half% um and then you know

the rate would reset you know next year

option two is a recast and I've kind of

read where you're not a big fan of a

mortgage recast um and want to get your

thoughts on this so obviously the rate would stay the same six and a half

percent um this would require a $20,000

payment um by the end of October and

that would lower the payment $4 a month

okay um so that's option two and then

why would you want to lower it if you're paying it off in two years what's the

benefit well iess I guess that's where I

I I think I don't I don't understand

it's like we're trying to pay it off in two years or two and a half years right

right right and so why how does lowering

the payment accomplish that um I mean it's lowering the

interest that I'm paying no it's not

that would be no it's not

um if you recast are you're going to recast at a lower interest rate no I'm

recasting I'm taking it from a balance

of 999,000 to oh it would lower the

balance yeah but you could do that

anyway you don't have to recast to do

that yes I could and that's what I've

been doing is just recast all recasting

does is reset the payment based on a longer term it doesn't change the

interest charged right right okay so

there's no benefit to you mathematically

to recast okay given that you're planning

to pay it off in two years yes correct

and here's the other thing is that I I don't have $20,000 just sitting around

right's right exactly so that kind of

brings me to option three um and let me

let me just preface this by saying I heard you about a year and a half ago

maybe two years ago before the rates you

know were creeping up because I was

going to re refinance and I remember you tell a caller don't refinance if he can

pay it off in three years so I kind of went with that model and I'm I'm on I'm

on target I'm on track to pay this off

and that that is really why I did not

refinance um but option three would be

digging into my brokerage account and

paying it off entirely I have I have

about $200,000 I'd have to cash you know

not in a retirement you have a brokerage account sitting there with enough to pay it off yes I do pay it off

today yeah I knew you knew I was G to do

that I I did I did I still wanted to

walk through the options okay so if if

you had a paid for home with a brokerage

account with a $100,000 Less in it would you go borrow $99,000 on your home paid

for home to put more money in your brokerage account no it's the same thing

yeah yeah I think I think I'm just

having

some let me tell you what's going to happen all right that you don't

anticipate because I've been the other side of it myself and with a whole bunch

of other people you do not understand

when you pay this off and you walk out

in the backyard with no shoes on that

the grass is going to feel so much different there's going to be a level of

Peace blow through your home like a nice

cool wind that you don't even know is

coming when you owe no man

nothing all this hand ringing you've

been doing for the last few minutes trying to figure out what to do all

that's gone just clean and simple you just own

your house you're weird I love

it I love it and listen if you really

hate it then go get your new

mortgage yeah but I don't think you're going to hate it I think you're going to feel freedom that you have not felt in your adult

life yep and I know that from the having

experienced it myself CU I don't have any debt and haven't had for 30 years

and I walk around without all of these

weights on my shoulders and um that that a lot of

people have and I get to make different decisions and have a different level of calm in the middle of a storm and all of

that pay off your house Louisa please I

promise you you won't regret it but if I'm completely Bonkers and you do regret

it you can always go get you another

mortgage and theoretically put it back

at The Brokerage there's a fear there you could hear it yeah well no it's just this angst of the devil I know yeah

that's right the devil I know versus the piece I've never known and um it it's I

don't know if I'm doing something wrong I don't know if which is the correct thing and let me just tell you man when

you get no payments in the whole

freaking world financial

peace two words that don't go together

like Airline service man wow like Postal Service sorry to you

postal people oh my gosh sorry to you

Airline people but I mean really I mean it's Financial Peace two words that

don't go together I mean I've got money

and a brokerage I've got my emergency

fund I've got retirement going and I own

my whole freaking

house some of you need to breathe that

in and make that a goal some of you spend a lot of calories

flipping stuff over in your head ringing

your hands trying to figure out

something when the answers are usually

pretty simple clean it up people

simplify

simplify that's it

simplify yeah it's hard to beat guys

hard to beat this is the Ramsey show

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Ramsey well about eight years ago I

looked up on Twitter back when I looked

at Twitter and uh there were some guys

on there poking fun at all kinds of

people and then the next thing I knew they were making fun of me and they're

funny as crud and some of my favorite

follows on social media the be the

Babylon B Kyle man one of the founders

of the Babylon b along with his friend

Adam uh who's gone on to do other things

now but they started this thing over in

California and uh a satirical look at

church for one thing and church making

fun of us church people by church people because you're a pastor's kid or no you were a pastor P yeah you were a pastor at one point my dad's a rocket scientist so oh well there's that wow for real

yeah no it's not a joke you know not

everything I say is a j right right well I'm just checking I didn't know if you're Point all right so right Kyle man is the editor and chief of the bee The Babylon be uh around here all the Ramsey

folk are big fans of the bee and uh we

recommend you guys check it out if you want to have a good Snicker a good laugh

uh a couple times a day and you ought to get something positive out of social media so there's a way you can do it so

welcome Kyle good to have you we're big fans man good to be here thanks to thanks for having me so fake news you

can trust all right did Trump steal that from you or did you steal it from Trump it's ours man it's copyrighted

look at that yeah we made the T-shirt so

we own the phrase but fake news he stole from you fake well no we stole fake news from that's what I thought yeah but you're fake we owe him no royalties on it but fake news you can trust is yours

yeah that's all us cuz you can't trust all the fake news but you can trust this one trust the Bon B great great play

great satire I mean you got a sense of humor I love mean sarcasm is my uh my

love language so I love the whole thing and you guys have come at me a bunch of times and I've loved every bit of it it's we always get good response uh uh

because you're not too hard on me but

but you get a good use you want us to be

no I appreciate it I'm trying not to

make you mad yeah I don't I don't I don't want I don't need anybody else picking on me out there so uh but satire

is tough I mean it's hard is it harder

to create satire uh when real life things are so

over the top I mean it's so weird out

there that it's like reality is satire

yeah uh GK Chesterton wrote a hundred

years ago that he he thought satire

would be impossible because the real news was so absurd you wrote that in like 1911 and you picture how crazy the

news has gotten from 1911 until 2023 you

know you just you open up the news and you can't tell if it's a real news headline or the Babylon be headlines sometimes I can't tell and I'm writing the the headlines yeah you know that's

how difficult it is yeah we I mean when

I was a kid the local newspaper you

might not agree with their politics but it was least objective the CBS Nightly

News with Walter konry was at least

objective but if I look at CNN's website

Fox's website look at the local newspaper here in Nashville uh it more

resembles the national Inquirer when I

was a kid than it did then it does I mean even their their their look tone

feel their fonts and everything it's

it's just so salacious so bizarre it's

aliens you know that that was was reserved for that was reserved for the national inquire in the line of when you're buying groceries you know yeah

but it has all shifted that way to where you know it you guys probably get confused for real stuff sometimes don't you oh absolutely yeah we've been fact checked dozens of times our jokes get

fact checked by Snopes USA Today of

course all all different kinds of isets fact check our jokes because people think they're real what's the most famous case of a story being taken very

seriously well Snopes fact checked one

of our articles that was uh CNN

purchases industrial washing machine to

spin the

news somebody actually checked on that

and that got fact checked and our Facebook page got demonetized deplatformed you know all of that stuff because of that article because it was fact checked and they said oh you guys are sharing fake

news yeah it's a joke because CNN yeah

theant CNN really didn't do that who

knew yeah well as far as we know yeah yeah as far as we know far as we know can't is there is there anything off limits for you guys or how how what's that editorial process like when I I

even hate to say editorial but there is a version of that yeah well we won't be

too mean to Dave Ramsey that's our number one we like that we like that that's our number one rule uhhuh useing

for clicks and laughs but that's enough just click and laughs all friendly stuff

but uh no I mean I don't think there's any topic that's off limits for the saturnist and honestly that's why you

know a lot of left leaning comedy these days isn't funny anymore because they have so many no fly zones things that they won't make fun of that it doesn't

surprise you anymore you know imagine if they were to make fun of their own worldview you know things in their own worldview it would be shocking because they don't do that you know so I think you do need to be able to make fun of yourself you do need to be able to make fun of things in the culture um I mean I

just think the main the main guideline that we use is that if we're making fun of a serious topic like we're trying to call attention to a really you know heavy topic like abortion or something along those lines then our jokes are going to be that much more serious you know we don't want to make people think that we're making light of those things sure so that's kind of one of the one of the guidelines that we use yeah so but

you are an equal opportunity offender I mean you go after just about everybody in one way or another I mean you make fun of fox or CNN right or left issues

or uh you know you know conservatives do

this or or uh you know lefties do this

or whatever I mean you you you get on every it's fun yeah well and you have to

like I think to be a good saturnist you

have to first be able to laugh at yourself you have to be able to make fun of your own and that's what you know that's what made the Babylon B get so popular so fast because we were writing the the jokes about the worship leaders who wear the v-neck and all that oh yeah

absolutely and our friend Dave Ramsey here you know those kind of jokes showed people like hey they're not afraid to make fun of themselves and that kind of gives you the right to then go after the other side a little bit too all right so I got to know this if you look to the

recent past or maybe a 100 years ago as

a saturnist who would you have loved to

been in the public scene now where you could have taken a crack at him whether that be in the faith-based world politics Sports what what comes to mind when I ask you that yeah so we launched

we launched like right at the end of the Obama Administration you know and so we

were kind of like during the Trump Clinton years so we did kind of launch it in the perfect time when it was like you could make a lot of good fun of trump if you had a good sense of humor about him and you could make a lot of fun of of Hillary obviously too right um

so we launched it kind of that perfect time but yeah the last the last 100

years I mean it would have been great to be around in the 80s with rean I mean

the Clinton years you got people had so

much fun with on SNL but that's back when SNL used to make fun of both sides and you know they would back when SNL was funny was right back when the late

night people would make fun of both sides you know George W bush obviously was great for humor just with his mannerisms oh yeah so we kind of missed out on a lot of that but at the time there were comedians covering it you know there was the SNL and the late nights that were actually doing that stuff you know I I remember him telling a story when I was interviewing him about strategery yeah yeah he thought he

actually thought he he said I thought I did say that and he was talking to the

writer at at Saturday Night Live Lauren

whatever or the producer and Lauren said No George I said that I said you said

that but you never really said that and

he he owned it he thought I he said I thought I said it it was the funniest thing ever and so yeah but that you got

to be able to laugh at yourself in the process and you got to be able to enjoy that ride no question about it so um how

do you determine uh you guys put content

on almost all the major platforms uh

from podcast to posts on Facebook posts

I guess you're are are you banned from Facebook no okay not banned from Facebook okay all right but are you banned from anything right now um we got

banned from Tik Tock which is you know a

good thing in some ways yeah because then you don't have to be on Tik Tac yeah but uh I think we got let back on

so I don't know if we're actually banned from anything right now what got you banned from Tik Tok I you can't joke about anything on Tik Tok you know we'll do jokes about the

the tamest joke you can imagine and they'll say you know community community standards politically sensitive politically sensitive you know what's crazy about that is they won't let you make fun of anything but they'll let kids go on and say stupid crap about

time blindness and how she's mad at her

boss this is the latest

rage this will make Dave's head explode

I'll have to tell him during the commercial break to go deflate him after he can't handle it on the air it's too much but they'll let kids rage yeah but

you can't make a joke yeah well that's part of the danger of social media and algorithms who's controlling the algorithm and controlling what we see we already know that with Tik Tok you know they they change the algorithm based on who you are if you're in America if you're in China the algorithm is different based on what they want to produce in the culture so so how do you

guys with all those different platforms determine which piece of content worked

um I mean there there's some there are

some social media platforms where uh a

certain joke will hit a little little bit better like for a long time Twitter was kind of the political space where

politics J F did well yeah you're a big

hit on Facebook and Instagram for us y

you know I love it that's good okay good

so yeah it just depends on the audience and where they are well we're just here to serve I'm saying yeah Dave you're

huge on the grham you're huge on the grham as the kids say that's it and huge

on the be baby that's it that's what I'm

saying Babylon B Kyle man thanks for

stopping by brother we love your work it's a lot of fun you guys if you haven't followed it jump in and follow you'll get a laugh and uh you might get offended and that'll be good for you too just your way through it you got to love it the Babylon B check it out this is

the ramsy show Rachel do you ever get

these sketchy text messages that are like hey you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order yes I have George

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why we recommend delete me they help with that yeah they do delete me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my

co-host today today's Ramsey Show

question of the day is sponsored by why

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today's question comes from Nikki in Kansas my husband has been at his current job for over five years he has

received yearly inflationary raises a

new manager position was recently created and my husband considered applying for it but before he could it

was given to another employee that has no previous experience in the role this

new manager now repeatedly asked my husband for for advice and wants him to

work extra hours and to cover his lack

of confidence I think it's time for him to find a new job but he wants to make

it work here his annual review is coming

up should he mention the situation and

bring up needing increased compensation

or a path to growth well Nikki I you

know I I when somebody has done me wrong

I found Dave that my wife Stacy has

always taken it worse I don't know if Sharon's that way or not but it feels

like this situation where your husband's griped a little bit about this

um Nikki and and you've gotten really

upset about it and um I I would listen

to your husband here he wants to make it work and based on the facts you've given

us he never raised his hand for the job

and because he didn't raise his hand

whoever hired this other employee is not

on the on the line for that because they

can't read mine so in this situation I

always tell people to never ask directly

for a raise I teach to uh talk about a

growth plan uh after you talk about a

desire to grow in other words I think in

his annual review he need to sit down and say Hey listen um you know I was

thinking about raising my hand for this other position I didn't and that's on me

but what it did show me is that I want more I want to lead I want to step up I

want to climb here at company XYZ So to

that end uh in my review whether you got

it for me today but in the future uh in

the near future I'd like to meet with you and discuss a growth plan what tools

can I add to my tool belt in other words

skills and experience and then what are

some shortcomings what are some areas that may be blind spots for me that I need to be aware of so that I do better

and make myself a better uh employee uh

and then uh can we lay that plan out and

how do we measure it so that you and I are operating off the same sheet of paper sh same sheet of music and and and

and if we measure that uh will that lead

to opportunity for more responsibility

which should come with more compensation

that's the spirit the posture that you

should have so that you do not put your leader on the defensive because many times they are not the sole decision maker in you getting a promotion and a raise and so the reason I prescrib that

that way Dave is it allows them to have some ownership in it they don't feel put on the spot they don't feel backed into a corner and U then we have an adult

mature professional conversation about

uh a path

forward the other thing I want to ask

yourself um is who is ambitious here you

or your husband because a he didn't raise his

hand for this position B his wife wrote

us an email

m not

him two indicators he ain't real fired

up and so are not as fired up as you are

that's correct that's very obvious so

um I I don't want you to want something

for him more than he wants it for himself because that's going to come through when he sits down in his review

he needs to be confident competent how

can I add value to this organization

what do I need to do to make myself more valuable so that I can grow here grow

meaning grow in responsibility and in

value that I'm adding and hopefully in compensation someday and that requires a

a body language a a little

Swagger yeah you got to show some Hunger

I think what what they want to see here is I want to get better I want to do

more be more and that's attractive yeah

I and and you know I think that's a

discussion maybe your husband doesn't want any of that maybe you want it I think it's very possible so um you need

to talk that through before you send him into the lion's cage open phones at

88255 225 Matthew is in Houston Texas hi

Matthew how are you hey guys thanks for

taking my call sure what's up hey so I have a budgeting question

I'm trying to figure out what I should do for uh an extra

20,000 um in income I'm going to receive

three to four times this year uh from

overtime work send it to Dave's Bahama

fund P box no I'm kidding okay all right

so you're gonna make it you're gonna make an extra 80

grand uh yeah so we

very nice pretty nice where are you on

the baby steps bro uh I'm not sure what baby step

exactly but okay so this whole this whole thing's new to you okay that's cool that's fine okay we teach a process

to use all extra money to achieve wealth

as fast as possible and we apply it in an order a

forced ranking of importance okay and

that that that system is called the baby steps one baby step at a time and you'll

become wealthy so I'll walk you through

them right quick you ready okay first thing you need to do is

save $1,000 doar I bet you've already done that yes how much money do you have in

savings uh just savings I have about 50k

okay good for you and how much debt do you have not counting your home none good okay baby step one is

save $1,000 baby step two is to become

debt free everything but house ding ding

check those two boxes three is to have

an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of

expenses if we call that 50,000 in that

emergency fund you're there three baby

step four is start putting 15% of your

income towards retirement not more not

less in 401ks and Roth IRAs are you

doing that yeah I'm maxing them out it's

more like 25% at the moment okay baby

step five is kids college do you have

kids uh no I'm single well that's easy

we skip that one baby step six is pay

off your house early how much do you owe

on your home yeah I owe uh 200 on my home and

right now I'm putting an extra $400 a

month towards the principal okay and what do you make what's your total income sir uh well depending what this OT uh

should be close to about 200 this year

okay and you're single and you have no debt payments if I woke up in your shoes

what would I do following those steps I

just gave you that I've taught 10 million people um I I would tell you to

reduce your 401k to 15% not maxed out and I want you

to take everything you can squeeze out of your monthly budget including this

bonuses that are coming in and throw it

at the mortgage let's pay this house off

in two years okay okay yeah that's um kind of

what I've been leaning towards too I don't like having it hang over my head but um I was also wondering if I should

consider a side brokerage account or

after the house is paid off okay so after the house yeah here's

here's why here's why okay this is I not

I don't want it hanging over my head there's actual data okay we did the

largest study of millionaires in North

America ever done 10,167 of them two primary things caused

them to have the first1 to10 million of

net worth investing steadily into their

401k and paying their home

off they and paying the home off is a

big part of it by the way so paid for

house how old are you I'm 26 and the house is worth

what uh probably about 260 okay so when

the house gets paid off by the time it's paid off somewhere around 34 years old

33 years old you're going to have a net worth of over a million dollar at the

track you're on right now so way to go

dude you're killing it proud of you hang

on I'm going to send you a copy of the book baby steps millionaires it's my

latest number one best seller and uh

it'll show you exactly the stuff I'm talking about why when and where and it'll help you dial this in you are a

stud keep it up man this is the Ramsey

Show Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is

my co-host today thank you for joining

us America we're so glad you're here

open phones at 88255 225 Janet is in boisey Idaho hi

Janet welcome to the Ramsey Show hey

kenon Dave it's a pleasure ours too how

can we help yeah so I'm calling today

just to see how we as we is uh me and my

husband can get ahead of our bills it

seems like every single month we pay our

bills 3 weeks after the due date and

then a week later they're due again

so we've tried you know budgeting and just trying

to get ahead and we just can't seem to get that curve um's call to see what

tips and tricks you could provide for us

okay what's your household income it's

about 75,000

gross okay and how much debt do you have

not counting your house 39,000 on what

on student loans is 24, 5,000 in credit

cards and a 9,000 or 10,000 on um RV a

travel trailer on a trailer okay and you make

75k a year that's right between the both

of us okay all right

um all right so where do you think your

money is going well I know that it was going to a

lot of eating out um I actually just got

my husband on board about two month to go to do like the baby steps I've been

doing it probably by myself for like a whole year um ever since and it seems

like actually we've been on this momentum of just being behind for like

the last year and we're just sick of it

I'm tired of handling it so I have him stepping in on the finance is as well as

just really you know being careful with

where our money is going and so you know

I've tried for the last two months we would just been you know paying every single week um because we get paid every

week so that's kind of okay so if I sat down with you and your

husband with a yellowad at the kitchen

table and I said okay this is what you have coming in this week let's let's map

out where every one of those dollars is going this is what you have coming in the next week let's map out where every one of those dollars is going let's map out you you should have enough with the

numbers you gave me we should yeah we

should and that's but you're not doing

that right there it is okay so you need

you need to sit down and you can jump on every dollar but the number one the first thing is the two of you have to do this together not turn it over to him cuz he cuz he can do it and you can't do

it that's not true okay both of you

together need to do this because what's

going to have to happen is you're going to have to decide not to do a bunch of stuff you're doing now that does that

doesn't matter as much as getting in control matters right I want to get in control

more than I want to go out to eat I want to get in I want to get out of debt and have a life more than I want to go on vacation uh I I want to get in control

more than I like this travel trailer I want to get in control more than and I'm

sick and tired of living stress to stress to stress to stress to stress

with no hope feeling like a rat in a

freaking wheel and when the both of you

when both of you are saying that and

then you put numbers to that and you say

okay this week on Friday we get a check

for X the following Thursday we get a

check for y the following Saturday we

get a check for Z and you write that set

down and you plan out every one of those

dollars and where every one of them are going because the water bill is due on

the second week the house payments due

on the first week the uh student loan

payments due in the third week and we're going to figure out what's coming out we're going to take this much for food this much for food this much for food in the four different weeks and we're going to allocate every one of those bills to

a certain week and some of them across

weeks so that we have enough money to

take care of them and every dollar has

an assignment on paper on purpose before

the month begins we agree on it and spit

shake and pinky swear and then we don't

do anything else with money except what we freaking wrote down right and it seems like we've been

doing that for the last two months but we can't catch that curve we can't get out so you write it all down and you don't have enough no we do have enough

but it seems like it's gone every single

week now if you wrote it down to have

enough and then you did something else

other than what you wrote

down well I guess where we're struggling

is just like every time we do try to we pay we get our bill every single you

know whatever a month we pay it once a

week and but we have so many little ones

it seems like we just don't know where they're not all written down prioritize them yeah we need to prioritize them better or every one of them on paper on

purpose in a certain week this is a week

one bill this is a week four bill this

is a week two Bill different bills have

different weeks and they all go within

the income of that week and then when

the check comes in the check is already

spent so you can't do anything except

what you wrote down you are not managing

to the budget you're writing it out as a hypothetic on then going doing what you used to do right and you're not focusing on it

get ahead but listen I'll tell you how

you've gotta that get you ahead just what I told you yeah if you you won't write down not getting

ahead you'll get ahead as soon as you do

that you've got room in this budget yeah you're disorganized and

chaotic yeah and when you give every

single if I paid you $100,000 a year to

pay these bills exactly on time and you

had no emotional tie to them whatsoever

and you would look at this family this distant family over in boisey Idaho and

tell them to quit going to freaking rest

I don't care how tired you are no whining allow you're going to pay the

freaking bill on time if I told you to

do that you could do it for someone

else right it's because it's not right

it's sixth grade math you can do this so

I you have got to get very detailed very

intentional and then live the detail

don't write it all down and then go do what you used to do and so well I just I

I I didn't feel like cooking to I don't

give a crap go home and get some

leftovers out of the dadgum

refrigerator that's how you do it you

can I mean we all have that you just got

to talk to your whiny self and say no whiny self I've done that myself I I

mean Sharon and I have done it to each other we know what it feels like but you

have to go I want control more than I

feel tired tonight you know and that's the biggest

thing that's the phrase that comes out of everybody's mouth by the way before they go out to eat or before they hit

the fast food and get dog food at Taco

Bell you know or whatever and so it's

just it's horrible it's horrible value

it's horrible nutrition and it's out of

control spending and so it's just yeah

so you got to write it down and get on

every dollar download the app and I tell

you what I'll give you the upgrade I'll give you the premium every dollar where it ties to your bank and we'll get you

started on that Janet cuz what you all desperately need is a detailed budget

and here's how you do a budget folks you

give every single penny a name every

bill has a week allocated in every

dollar it's called paycheck planning and

you plan out each paycheck for the month

and you and your spouse both look at it

every dollar is assigned to saving to

giving or to a

bill period every single dollar there is

no Miss there is no I well 50% of my

budget is non-allocated bull crap

allocate every

dime in every dollar on the paycheck

planning every dollar has a name before

the month begins August is coming

where's your August money going to be it's going to freaking disappear if you don't tell it what to do it will leave

and go to people's houses who tell it what to do and then you'll say stuff like the poor get poorer and the rich get richer yes they do because the rich

tell their money what to do do yeah

that's how this works and so you got to

get on top of this stuff and lean into it every dollar has an assignment you

stick to it you agree on it with your spouse and you do not spend a dime

unless it's on that page on that every

dollar app if it's not on there and it

comes up and it's a surprise and you forgot it you got to take something else

off because if you put something on there and you're already spent it all now you're an overdraft and now it doesn't work and I can't seem to get caught up well you're not getting caught cuz you're not living your plan do the

plan live the plan write the plan live

the plan do the plan live the plan live

the plan and it's your plan by the way

you decide where it's going to go but I'm telling you what I'm doing I'm not going out to eat I'm not going on vacation I'm selling a stupid travel trailer everything else is for sale so much the kids think they're next we're

going to take extra jobs and we're getting control cuz I'm tired of being stressed out that's what I'm doing if

I'm in your shoes and I did it by the way this is the ramsy SHO show

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## 85. If Nothing Changes Your Money Won't Change | March 26, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:39:24 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. is my co-host today, Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Ramsay Personality, and [music] My Daughter. Open Phones at8255225.

Ben is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Ben. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, how you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, I was calling to get some input on

combining uh finances with my wife. um

seems when I when we bring it up, it

causes arguments and I guess how can you take the baby steps to becoming a team?

>> Mhm. So why does it cause an argument?

Uh, I think just the um

I guess the oneness, not being in

control of her finances for herself, but combined

as one. I think that scares her a little bit. >> Yeah. You don't She doesn't think she has a vote.

>> Uh, it's not that. I think it's um she's

scared when we set up cuz I've talked

about doing a budget every month of

possibly causing an argument if something doesn't go as planned, but I've reassured her that no, that's that's not going to happen.

>> Work together. >> How long have y'all been married?

>> Uh right at two years.

>> Okay. >> I don't think you're telling me everything.

>> Uh I am. I mean, we've had plenty of conversations about it. I've tried open opening up about it. We have a joint account and all my money goes into that

or our money, but her paycheck stays.

>> Well, one of two things is going on. Either she's a selfish princess and she wants to control her own life and doesn't want to any accountability for anything or uh she doesn't trust you

that she will have a vote in this process >> or that you're not going to misbehave with money. Has there been anything in the past, Ben, of something that you've done that could have broken that trust?

>> Um, not from our relationship side, but

her childhood. Um, her mom didn't I guess it she took the

selfish act when they got a divorce. So,

that kind of scares her.

>> I'm sorry. She took the what?

Um, so she tried taking all of her um her dad's money.

>> So I >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But there's laws that dictate who gets what in a divorce.

And if the reason we're not going to combine our finances is because I'm planning my divorce, we have other issues.

So, we aren't planning a divorce. I I'm

just making assumptions. I don't know definitively. >> Okay. Yeah. I don't either. Um so,

I you know, I I don't know.

You know, we're not sure why that why this lady doesn't want to do this other than her kid parents got a divorce when she was a kid, which is really not a reason to not combine finances with my current husband if I'm deeply in love and we have a high quality relationship that we both have a vote in and there's communication on and full transparency.

Do you >> unless unless she thinks you're trying to control her or she is doing a bunch of crap that she doesn't want you to know about. >> Do you guys make a significant difference in salary, Ben?

Um, no. Just she brings home around 3,500

every month and uh I bring home around

4,000. >> Okay. Yeah. I I don't know. I would Yeah. I would dig into more of her why, which I don't know if you've done that of understanding. >> If you have, you can't you're having trouble verbalizing. >> Yeah. So I would figure out what is the what is really going on um with her of

her hesitation and her refusal and yeah

depending on what I mean those are two extremes on the on the spectrum is what Dave laid out which is true. So, she falls on one end of the spectrum and not and and out of that then is what you're going to have to talk to her about and you guys together get a plan where you're both comfortable and and the why is the motivation is so that we can work together and have a oneness in our life and our money is a tool that we use every day in our life and so when we see that as a household and we see that togetherness uh it helps so many decisions and the logistics as well like come fall into place.

think you need to do some more digging, Ben, on on what's going on in her her fears, and then you need to be able to verbalize that to her on why you're wanting to do money differently than you are now, and that's going to be important, too.

>> Jack is in Houston. Hi, Jack. How are you? >> Hey, how are y'all doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, so I had a question. Um, I'm young.

I'm about 20. I have my own business and I am also a full-time college student.

I'm kind of trying to decide if it is

better for me to invest in myself than set a set amount to put into like

savings or stock accounts. Uh, I know

you have a rule of about like 15%, but for me, I'm about to transition to um

maybe I guess another question would be

is it okay to go into debt for a business property kind of like a house as long as it's just that like not like car spending or anything like that?

>> I'm sorry. A house as a business property. What's that? So, I mean, if

like if I took out a loan for a business

property, would that be bad necessarily?

Yes, it would be bad. Go into debt over that. >> You're 20 years old, you're in college.

That'd be really bad. It'd be dumb.

>> Why would you saddle yourself with that?

So, what are you studying in school?

>> Business management. >> Okay. And when will you graduate?

um two years from now, but I'm kind of already phasing out to possibly just not

finishing my degree. I'm making about $100,000 a year and I only work weekends. And so the amount of income I make for the time >> What are you What are you doing?

>> I build show trucks.

>> You You build what?

>> Like big lifted trucks, like audio systems, lifted trucks, etc.

>> Are you bringing home a h 100red,000, Jack? Is that like what you paid yourself or is that what the business brought in?

>> Uh, so I'm the sole owner. I only pay myself. Um, that's what the business profited. Okay. >> But I I mean there's there's taxes and I

still put money into I put at least the $7,000 in my Roth IRA. That's like my goal is I'll always do that. But I'm also like I have a lot of cash stacked up and no debt. And so I have a lot of cash that I'm like, "Hey, I could maybe get a $80,000 piece of property, build a

$50,000 shop on it. I could pay for half

up front. And would it be a bad idea to

necessarily like take out a loan on something that I'll own instead of renting?" >> No, I would stay right where you are until you can pay cash for that.

>> So just save save up cash completely.

>> Yeah. We own real estate that our businesses are in. We pay cash for it as we go. we move at the speed of cash and

that'll keep you from getting your pinched later when something turns down in this business. [music] Um, I also think that if you're studying a good business curriculum, you're probably going to learn some things in the next two years that you will use in your business for the rest of your life. Uh, I have a four-year degree in business and finance and I use some of the things I learned 40 years ago almost every day.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

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Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

If [music] you have a simple tax situation, like you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, use Ramsay Smart Tax. It's really affordable, makes filing super simple, and it has built-in support in case you need a little help. Ramsey Smart Tax.

Filing early means you get the best deals, and you get that tax stress off your shoulders. So, as soon as you get all your tax documents, go to ramseysolutions.com/smartax and file quickly, easily, and affordably. [snorts] Oscar is with us in Orlando. Hi, Oscar. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> That's good. Um, so I currently have

$2,000 um in debt, me and my wife. That's her credit card debt. I also have that one's at a 17% interest rate. I also have $3,53ish

at a 30% interest rate on one of my

credit cards and then $1,200

on another credit card at 0% interest rate. and $2,800

in collections currently. And I also

have my wife's car which owes $10,000

and we currently are at 27% interest

rate and I have $8,00

how much cash?

>> 8,800.

>> Wow. Okay. All right. So, I don't know

what I should do with it. Rather pay off

the car because then I could pay it off within a month. And we've been making payments on it for three years now. And we already gave $8,000 towards the original $13,000 debt towards it. So, I kind of just want to get rid of it. That way, I don't have those extra $500 I

could put towards my savings and then pay off the other debt.

>> So, um, how old are you guys?

I'm 20 and my wife's 21.

>> Wow. Okay.

And uh what's your what's your what's your household income, sir?

>> Um right now my take-home is 1,300

bi-weekly. >> Okay. All right. A thou Say that how

much again?

>> That's 2,600 a month.

>> Okay. And does your wife work?

>> No. >> Why? >> She stays at home watching the kids.

>> Oh. How many kids have you got?

>> I got one. >> Okay. And $2600 a month is your income.

>> Correct. >> And you're working 40 hours.

>> Yeah. Sometimes 37, sometimes 40. Once I

get my promotion, I'll be working 50 and then my income will jump up.

>> When is that? >> Cuz I just started a new job. That's probably in about two more months.

>> What are you doing, Oscar? For work?

>> Um, manage a Chipotle.

>> Okay. Okay. Cuz you're not making any money. >> Um, >> yeah. >> All right. >> Are you guys able to pay rent? How much is your rent or mortgage?

>> So, currently we're living with her parents. >> Okay. >> Cuz my collections is on the other apartment I had when I used to sell cars. I used to make like 4 to 5,000 a month, but I got another job and I'm trying to like change my career path and just get more steady income.

>> I don't mind if it's not steady if you're making twice what you're making now.

Yeah, I didn't like it either.

>> Oh, okay. There's that. Um, >> yeah, that's the biggest thing.

>> So, have you kind of I mean, just listening to your situation and your story, you're 20 years old with a baby.

You live with her parents. You make $2,600 a month. And you apparently don't

read anything before you sign debt

because you've got some of the worst debt products on the planet. I mean, everything you had was north of 20%.

Like, do you like say, "Come over here.

I like getting screwed." I mean, you like signed up for everything possible.

That was horrible. How do you do that?

>> So, no. So, my credit cards that I got,

I paid the rent from my last apartment that I had with it once I lost my job cuz there was a job that I had lined up that I didn't get and that kind of messed me up. So, I just used my credit card to pay it. And then as far as the car, I told her not to do it because I was working at the car dealership and I was able to get her a better deal, but

it was it was a rough time.

>> Yeah. I mean, like, you guys need to figure out uh a different way of looking

at life so you don't sign up for anything ever that looks like this again

cuz you you're getting tattooed by everybody on the planet. I never saw anything like this. Is a mess. Okay. So, the bad news is you don't make a lot of money and you've got some debt. The good

news is $20,000 makes you debtree.

>> Yeah. >> Completely debtree. You need $20,000 and you have $8,800.

So, really >> $10,000 makes you debtree and you're only working 40 hours. So, you need to be working an additional 40 hours starting right now somewhere else in addition to what you have now. You need two more part-time jobs, and you need to pile up some money so you can get out of your mother-in-law's house. >> Yeah.

Make it a goal, Oscar, to make an extra two grand a month. whe whether it's Uber Eats, like whatever it is that you're just doing something.

everything except the car and leave $1,000 in your emergency fund. And I would list these debts smallest to largest. So the 1,200's gone, the the uh 2,000's gone, the 2,800's gone. I think the whole 3,000's gone. Right at it. I'm going to knock out all of those. and all you got left is the car and then $2,000 a month extra and you start throwing everything you can at that car, maybe $3,000 a month at that car and you'll be done in two or three, four or five months, five months max. But you need to

create some extra income until this Chipotle uh promotion comes along uh

because you guys don't make any money.

You're starving to death.

Okay. Yeah. >> And um and but yeah, you could clean this up with the money you have in the bank, everything but the car. And um and

then go get three extra jobs and work like a crazy man. But the two of you need to look at each other and go, "Okay, we have done our last stupid thing. We are not signing up for any more debt. We suck at picking out debt." I mean, 27% on a car. Good God. I mean,

really. And and and there we can't do

this. and survive.

We're going to live at your mother's the rest of our life if we do this. So, never again. And the next time I can't pay my rent, I just can't pay my rent. I

don't put it on a credit card. We have to work with a landlord instead of the credit card company. You choose your poison. I don't I don't We don't borrow money anymore, Oscar. You guys have You've stepped in every bear trap known to man. >> Yeah. And you guys are young, but honestly, I would sit down with her and look out in 5 years and say, "Hey, when we're 26 years old, >> where do we want to be?" >> Yeah. What's a what's a dream scenario?

What kind of career do I want to be in?

What kind of house or area of Orlando we want to live? Like start actually creating some of this like future thinking. And that sometimes does help when there's like a crisis right there in the present, right? We're like, "Nope, that's not getting us to where we want to be." And so it helps you stop.

But if you if you're still on the line, Oscar, uh we'll have Christian pick up and get you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. And there's an assessment in the back. And it's very helpful just to start thinking through what you want your career to be so that you can up your income long term uh throughout your life. >> Yeah.

keep making $4,000 a month until you find something making $5,000 a month

that you like. You don't just go, I don't like doing this. I'm going to quit and move in with my mother-in-law. Bad choices.

You keep working until you have something to move to. You don't you don't stop the income flow. And so, yeah, these are these are the mistakes you've made that have gotten you here.

And so, what you need to do is assess when I went broke all those years ago when I was 28, I had to look and say, "Okay, what were the stupid butt decisions I made?" And there were plenty of them that put me in this situation so I don't ever get back in this situation again. And that's all I'm telling you to do is the same thing I had to do. And and you can do it. You can do it.

But if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting, too.

That that's a good plan. So, wow.

>> Well, just a lot of credit cards and cut up all the credit cards tonight. You listed out three of them for us. Just get rid of them. Just say we're going to do something totally different with our [music] money. >> Yeah. We're going to be on debit cards and a budget on every dollar. Christian will get you a copy of Ken's book cuz I don't think you chose Chipotle because it was your dream.

>> However you say it, I apparently you don't even need to go there. I don't know. But um the uh I don't think you picked that place. I think you just fell

into that instead of going I always wanted to manage a restaurant. I don't think you said that out loud.

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

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[music]

[music] Matt is in Fort Worth, Texas.

Hi, Matt. How are you?

>> Good. How are you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I've been trying to help my mom get out of debt for past three years.

She wants to retire in three years, but I can't her gazelle intent.

>> Wait a minute. You're kind of breaking up. Can you get with where your phone is still and is working?

>> Try again. >> Yeah. Uh, I've been uh trying to help my mom get out of debt for three years and um she's retiring in three years as well or she wants to, but I can't get her to become Gazelle intense.

Okay. She's broke and staring down the barrel of retiring broke but won't fix

it. Why?

>> Um I I have no clue. I've asked and I've

prodded and I've tried to get her to to see how scary it could be um retiring

with nothing. But >> How old are you? >> Like I'm uh 25.

>> How old is she?

>> Uh turning 60 this year.

Well, she's not going to retire at 63 because she's not going to have any money. >> Yeah, she thinks uh she she has a pension plan, but that's that's I've already looked and I've been helping her with her finances and I don't see it working for her for covering all her expenses and still her debt. >> How much debt does she have?

>> Uh currently 40,000 total.

>> Okay. What's it in? uh 20,000 in student

loans, 16,000 in personal loans from

credit cards, and then 4,000 in a remaining credit card. >> Okay. Did she go to school? The student loans, was that hers, or was it a parent plus loan? >> Uh she was going to school, uh but she she didn't finish her last class and so these are just the remaining student loans, okay, >> from her own degree.

>> Okay. >> So, when you sit and say, "Mom, this is serious. If you don't fix this, you're going to be up a creek without a paddle. What does she say?

>> Uh she kind of laughs it off.

>> Yeah. >> Um and uh and and we've we've gone through the baby steps and and >> No, we haven't. You have.

>> She hasn't done anything except laugh.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. My wife and I we've done it. And and I tried using that as look at look

at what we've kind of been able to do. You could kind of live like this as well. But uh >> yeah, >> I don't know. It's not clicking.

>> Yeah, it's a hard reality when you realize you can't force people to do anything. >> You can't say the right thing well enough to get them to see this or that.

I mean, like there is a point in an adult's life that they have to make a decision on what they're going to do.

And she's telling you through her decision- making of what she's going to do. And so there's a part, Matt, that I hate to say it, I think you've done everything that you can possibly do.

>> Mom, I probably have one closing conversation. It's mom, I'm not going to bring this up again >> unless you bring it up. If you need some help, yeah, >> if you want some coaching, fine. I'm going to be giving you zero money when

you're old.

>> So, you probably should figure this out.

>> But I'm not going to beg you to do this stuff anymore. I I I want you to win

with money more than you want to win with money. And I'm through talking to you about this and you laughing when I do it. So, we're not going to talk about this subject anymore unless you call me and say, "Help me." And I will help you by teaching you. I will never help you by giving you money. Period. And then end it. Just drop it because you you're not making any progress. You're you're beating your head against a rock.

>> And she's not changing. She doesn't she doesn't want your advice. And so one of the things I figured out when I started doing this show years ago is I quit

answering questions that people didn't ask.

>> Yes. [laughter] >> You know, >> yes, I know. >> I quit coming into someone's life and presenting myself as the answer to your questions. >> Yeah. That you're not asking. >> If you ask a question, I'll help you. I I'm obligated then to answer your question. But I'm not going to just walk

up to somebody randomly in my life and go, "Hey, that's stupid." >> I know. >> But if you ask me, I'll tell you that's stupid. I love you enough to tell you the truth. >> And what's frustrating, Matt, is what you've experienced.

You and your wife at 25 of going through the baby steps and doing this and probably paying off debt and having an emergency fund and retirement and you're seeing the progress and you look over at someone you love like your mom and you're like, you could be doing this exact same thing. And so the motivation is totally understandable where you're coming from, but you have to understand the result is not you have no control over that at all. At all.

>> You can't make them do it. It's like, you know, I've got a friend that lost 100 pounds and his wife didn't >> and he he's frustrated with her and I'm like, dude, you know, that was you just a few years ago. Mhm. >> So, you decide you had to make the decision. You can't your your wife's not going to lose weight because you want her to. She's going to lose weight when she wants to. Nobody got you to lose weight until you wanted to. Same thing.

You got to make these choices. You can't. But he feels so much better and he feels his dignity coming back. He go, you know, his clothing fits all this kind of stuff. And he wants that for somebody that he loves. And he can't.

But you can't make somebody else do want something. You can only you can only present to them is what it's done for you. this is what's worked for me.

You've done that. And then I would I would have one closing conversation and say, "I'm not going to bring this up again." But also be forewarned, I will not be writing you checks because I've tried to help you and I'm not going to be writing you checks at any point in your life. It's not going to happen. So, you should figure this out.

This should scare you. Where you are is scary. And if it doesn't, I can't help you. If you want some coaching, some advice, I'll be happy to show you what we did.

I would be honored. I'd be excited to show you what we did, but I'm not going to bring it up again unless you do and just drop it.

would do. And then move on to the next thing. You can't, you know, the the

problem with most of us is we love somebody, we see them doing something that's hurtful to themselves, and we

want them to be healed more than they want to be healed. >> Yes. >> And we want them to have a quality spiritual walk more than they want to.

We want them to lose weight more than they want to. We want them to get out of debt more than they want to. We want and that's not unusual. That's most [clears throat] of us have had that experience. We want something for someone we love more than they want it.

>> And you just kind of have to stand back and go, "Dad [clears throat] gum, I just can't." >> Well, and it's a weird feeling, too.

This is always funny saying next to [laughter] you saying this, but Matt as a 25-year-old is doing better financially than his mom. And when you become an adult and you start to outpace your parents in any level of life, that is a weird feeling.

And so Matt, you're kind of grappling with this like I'm more of an adult.

>> I'm more I'm like the parent in this situation, right? Is how you're probably feeling. And that's a weird role reversal. And you don't have to do that.

But that's part of growing up too is seeing that and being like that feels so strange. But I feel like I've passed my parents in whatever the category is in life. And so that's part of adulthood too, Matt. Um with your mom, sadly.

Yeah, that's [clears throat] just part of the thing. So, um, >> and I was trying to think what category if I passed you in, Dave, then I think [laughter] >> I think I think you've raised better kids than I did.

>> It's an insult toward me. Unbelievable.

>> You're [clears throat] better at parenting than I was. >> No. [laughter] >> No. I laugh all the time though because sometimes my kids if they say something to me, I've used this line multiple times. Every parenting expert is probably like, "That's terrible." But I always am like, if I ever had said that to Pop and Mimi growing up, fill in the blank with my consequences.

>> It would not have gone well for my health. [laughter] >> I know you all >> old school parents >> get away. Yeah, they do. They we discipline, but also [laughter] y'all ran a tight ship growing up.

Probably tighter once than I do, but yeah, [laughter] it's so funny.

>> Oh, there's all kinds of ways you've passed us up, Rachel. It's okay. It's all good. >> I just You just gave me an underhand pitch. I couldn't resist. T-ball. That's good. >> So, yeah. The thing is when you're trying to convince someone in your life that you care about, all you can do is

not tell them what they're doing wrong.

Instead, just show them what you've done. >> And I can't tell you, you know, how how many way things you can do to fix your life, but I can say this is what I did and I feel this way now. I had this I I

had this experience. No one can take your experience away from you. So, just tell people your story. And in the marriage context, uh Dr. John Delaloney talks about this all the time. When you're trying to get your spouse on board, use I statements versus you.

Well, you're doing this, you're doing this. Yeah. So much about your story and what's going on inside of you is going to be the thing that's going to possibly move someone to a different action, but also it puts the self- responsibility on you and not that you're trying to implement [music] and change someone else cuz at the end of the day, you're not going to be able to.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

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[music]

Jimmy is in Atlanta. Hi, Jimmy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Okay. Appreciate you taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? >> I got something I want to run by. I just turned 65 about two weeks ago. Been self-employed most of my life.

Semi-retired for the last few. I own five houses that are paid for except for mine. It still has about $175,000 mortgage and four and a quarter. Uh we

have no debt to speak of. Uh we have income approximately 100 grand a year.

That doesn't include the rentals with the five houses. Two of the houses I've got to remodel completely and I've already remodeled two out of my pocket.

Uh total value of the properties are 2.2

and I have just under 400k in a money

market. And I've bought two houses. The

last two I've paid cash for and I've remodeled them out of my pocket. My question is your thoughts on these DSCR loans because I'm considered doing one of those and model the other two.

>> Yeah. Well, I wouldn't I I I don't teach people to borrow money. Um Jimmy, because I have found that the fastest way to wealth is to get out of debt and stay out of debt. And that's why you've worked so hard to be out of debt. Um and

so, uh you have 400k that you can do the

remodel with.

Yeah, but I've seen that dwindle down from about seven to four and I've got >> because you because you've been doing remodels.

>> Correct. >> And your net worth didn't go down. Your net worth went up because the value of the property went up because you remodeled it by more than the cost of the remodel.

>> Well, the last two houses are $400,000 houses. I paid 120 for one and 150 for the other. And I've got two more that I could possibly pick up, too. And that's why I was want to hang on to my cash.

Yeah. >> And use one of these. Remodel.

>> I'm not I'm not going to tell you to go into debt to buy real estate. I'm not going to tell you to go into debt for anything. I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate and 100% of it is paid for and we remodel 100% of it with cash or we don't do it. And even if you were going to go into debt, the DSCR

loan is not a good loan because it's a higher interest rate than a standard loan. >> Well, I've been quoted six and a half six and 3/4. >> Yeah. It's a higher interest rate than a standard loan. That's what I just said. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's not a it's not a good bargain. So, why are why are you wanting to pay a subprime rate to borrow

money when you have the cash in the bank to do the job? Absolutely not. I

wouldn't do that. I kind of think you're going to, but you ask me and I wouldn't do it. I would pay cash for the remodel or I'd dump one of these properties and take the cash out of that and move it around. If some of these properties are not fun and you would rather be in a different property, that's fine.

I've got a couple up for sale now. I'm going to do some 1031s on it, do some tax deferred exchanges on some of the properties we've got to resituate some of our portfolio of real estate. Uh you could do some of that, but um definitely not going to borrow money. Definitely not.

It's not like you don't have anything, right? I mean, it's not like it's okay.

Well, we have no money. You have money.

So, just pause on buying a new property

and use that to remodel and up the other ones or Yeah. or dump them or dump them and use that money to buy the other one.

So, I don't care. But, but I there's no way I would tell you to go into debt.

It's not going to bring your make your dreams come true. It's going to make your nightmares come alive. Lee is with

us in uh Leah is with us in Cincinnati.

Hi, Leah. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes. So, my husband and I, we have six-year-old boy girl twins. And when they were born, I cut back and I

currently only work very part-time and he's the bread winner and we have term life insurance as you recommend for his salary. Um, but my little boy is

profoundly autistic.

So, he requires lifelong care.

If anything were to happen to me, should I also have a um life insurance policy

for the same amount that we have my husband's for? Because he would have to take on that caretaker role and he would no longer be able to do the work that he does.

>> Yes. All stay-at-home moms should have

that have do not create an income should have life insurance on them to replace

the duties that they have. yours is

accentuate accentuated um with the autism situation, but still

just the same. When Sharon had littles at home, when when Rachel was small, we had life insurance on Sharon because if something happens to Sharon, I got to bring Mary Poppins in so I can work

>> and I have to pay her. And so then you figure out what the actual marketplace value of a stay-at-home mom is because they do a lot. They tutor. They uh they they keep the home clean.

They they make supper. >> Laundry. >> They they laundry. They do all this stuff.

I mean, there's just a huge huge number of things. If you have to pay someone to do all of these things, you're going to find out that it's a, you know, it's a 40 or a $50,000 a year job. >> Would you have a special needs trust for him?

>> Yes. We have all of that. We've got everything taken care of. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We have the only We only have our mortgage. That's the only debt. We have everything. We have set up the 529s cuz I have two other children as well. Um, >> but my my life insurance policy is only $25,000.

>> You need 500 on you.

>> Okay. >> Or more. I mean, maybe more.

>> Yeah. 500 500. >> If you're healthy, Leah, and you're young. How old are you?

>> I'm 36. >> Yeah, it'll be it will be so inexpensive. I almost would get I mean >> Well, 500 would create a $50,000 income

stream. You're going to need more. that would allow him to hire Mary Poppins to come in and help. I think you're >> um but if you if you if you want to spend more than that or if you wanted to replace his income, then you would have that amount >> and have him not working outside the home at all. Um which is probably not

what's going to happen, but could be could be some. Yeah. You know, again, if

everybody if you're if you're not overweight and you don't smoke, term life insurance is unbelievably cheap.

>> Yeah. That's why I almost would just just for out of safety because it's not that much more expensive. >> Get in touch with Xander and price it out. Price out 500, price out a million >> and just go, "Okay, what do I want?" It's it's the cost of a pizza for you.

It really is. It's It's xanderins insurance.com. Just call them. And we've been advertising for them for years. And people people are blown away at how

little life insurance costs. Uh and and once you see how little it costs you, it's like why don't everybody have good life insurance to take care of their families if something happens to them.

Yeah. So yeah, you're you're very wise to ask that question. It's a very valid question. Um and by the way, it's works for anyone who's got a stay-at-home situation. yours has got an extra twist on it because of the extra challenges you guys have, but um but it it doesn't

invalidate the other ones either. So yeah, do do all of that, every bit of it. Very cool stuff. Very cool. Open phones here at825-5225.

Jessica is in Kansas City. Right quick,

Jessica, what's up?

Um, so I just filed my taxes for 2025

and we owe the IRS about seven grand.

Um, >> do you have seven grand?

>> We do not. And we also have a baby on the way. So, >> do you have any money?

>> Um, yes, but we're saving that for like

when I'm off work and not >> No, honey. You owe the IRS.

>> [clears throat] >> You don't get to choose between what you pay the IRS and then you figure out how

to not do that. That no way. You do not want them on you. The penalties and the interest you're getting ready to take on make you wish you'd done a payday lender. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

So, how much do you have saved for when you take time off?

>> Um about

uh 2400. >> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> It's about 120.

>> And why did you miss your taxes that far?

>> Um, they didn't

apparently I they went my job went off

the new tax table. I don't see that. I

could see like 3,000 being off, but not

that much. So, um, and I was just trusting that I was

getting enough taken out and I didn't

look at my pay stuff. >> Okay. Yeah. So, what I would do is pay whatever you have towards the uh towards the IRS and then I would pay the IRS off as fast as you possibly can and then very quickly I would start stacking up money for you to take some time off.

You make enough money to do all of that, but you're going to do nothing else. Don't talk to me about going out to eat. And don't talk to me about vacations. And don't talk to me about a $10,000 nursery for the new baby.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show [music] in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Abby is with us in

Oklahoma City. Hi, Abby. How are you?

better than I deserve. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I know that you say bankruptcy is

very, very bad, but I was wondering if there's any situations where it may be

the only way out. Um, I am 34. I'm a

single mom of two kids and I am over

$90,000 in debt and I bring in about

$64,000 a year working three jobs.

So, I feel like I'm drowning. And I've

been doing the baby steps for

like 6 months, but really like going

[clears throat] in deep with it seriously for about 3 months. And I just

don't see like a way out. And I found out recently when I went to try and get out of my car loan that I'm $17,000

upside down.

So, I just don't know what to do.

>> I'm sorry you're scared. Um >> I'm very scared. I have a 13-year-old and a one-year-old. >> Wow. >> And my one-year-old has very complex medical issues. So >> the um

how much do you owe on your car?

>> 37,000. >> Okay.

And so you bought a car that you can't afford and it has made this whole thing happen >> pretty much. Yeah. My car loan is $850 a month. >> Good God.

>> And what is the um rest of the debt? The

other 50,000.

So, I have 30,000 student loans, 13,000

medical, 6,500 to my grandma, um 2,200

in a payday loan when I was desperate, and I owe 2,300 to my lawyers

>> for what?

>> Uh child support for my baby.

>> Is he Is child support coming in?

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. >> We're just still going back and forth because he owes me 26,000 in a rears.

Do you think you'll get that?

>> Yeah. >> You do? Okay. When will that come? Do you know? >> Um, anytime between the next 10 days and

if we have to go to trial over it, up to a year, [laughter] >> but I will 100% get it.

>> He has it. >> It's just Oh, he has it.

>> Okay. >> He just doesn't want to give it. He wants to be told he has to give it.

>> Okay. [laughter] Yeah. Well, we'll tell him. That's good. We can help him with that. Um, yeah. All

right. So, uh, you owe 37 on your car

and someone told you your car is worth 20. Like the dealer said that's what they would give you for it.

>> I went to 13 different dealerships and the highest I was quoted was 22.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, that's because they're all buying it at wholesale.

Dealers do not pay retail for a car.

They sell cars at retail, but they buy them at wholesale. And um so who do you

owe the 37,000 to?

>> Santander.

>> What is that?

>> It's a bank. Um >> a local bank.

>> No, it's uh one of those we'll finance

anybody deals. >> Yeah. So your interest rates 15%.

>> 16 and a half. >> Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. All right. So, >> and I tried I had good credit when I got this loan, so I don't really know what happened. I I know what happened. You signed a loan that you shouldn't have signed. That's what happened. You screwed You allowed them to screw you.

>> Oh my gosh. You got You got taken to the

cleaners. >> I did. I My engine was dying on my other

car and I had a newborn baby and I went in and they saw a helpless person and

they got me. >> Yeah. Yep. They got you. They got you coming and going. Okay. So, um,

number one, the answer to your question is bankruptcy is not really your problem. Not going to solve your problems. Okay. >> Okay. >> Because the only way the car goes away

in bankruptcy is if the car goes away,

>> right? >> Okay. And the student loans are not bankruptable, >> right? >> Okay. So, that's the two of those things

are most of the debt. Oh, and by the way, you're not going to bankrupt your granny either.

No, speaking of by the time we had those three things together that you're not going to bankrupt on >> um or you know then you really haven't accomplished anything >> by filing bankruptcy because you're going to have to pay the student loans and grandmother and you're going to get the car repoed.

>> Um which you could do without bankruptcy. That's not a problem. Just quit paying it. They'll come get it. Um,

you know, >> so it's okay to let it repo >> but before you'd file bankruptcy cuz you're going to lose it in bankruptcy anyway, right?

>> Okay. I just didn't know if that was >> Have you just I don't want you to do that. That's not my suggestion. But before we file bankruptcy, my point is bankruptcy is not doing anything for you, >> right?

>> Because the car, the student loans, and grandma >> the other, you know, so you end up bankrupting on $2,000 worth of stuff or something here. That's silly. No, we're not going to do that. All right.

So, but let's try to let's try to get you out of this mess.

>> Mhm. >> You're not 17 in the hole, but you're probably 10. And I don't doubt What kind of car is it?

>> 24 Ford Edge.

>> Oh jeez. Okay.

Boy, did they get you. Um >> Mhm. >> sold you a piece of crap car on top of it. But anyway, um [laughter] >> at least it's not a Chevy. >> Oh, it's just awful. No, it's it there's a lot of Chevys that are better than that. >> Um anyway, the um yeah, so we need to get rid of the car. Let's try to figure out how we can sell it to an individual for 25,28 something like that. Then where are we going to come up with the 10 difference? Any ideas?

>> I'm praying that this check comes in.

>> Any ideas? Yeah, I've just been hanging

on to getting that payment. And

>> so if that comes in, you sell the car the next day and you write a check for the difference. >> Yep. And you free up almost $900 a month. >> Yeah. And that that takes care of that. And then you use some of the money to buy you a five or $6,000 car that you pay cash for.

>> Okay. >> And your student loans are on hardship deferral anyway. You're not paying them right now anyway, aren't right.

>> Um I've been paying like $50 a month on them. >> Yeah, I wouldn't. I'd let I' I'd call them up, put them on hardship deferral.

>> Let's just put them on hardship for for 6 months and let's work on some of this other stuff. >> So, but we need to the the primary thing

we got to do is figure out a way to get out of this car sooner rather than later. So, if it's going to be a year, I don't want you driving this car a year.

It's going to be a year before you get the child support money. So, if you're not going to get the child support money anytime soon, then we got to find $10,000. Any other places you can get it?

I mean, I could go into more debt with my grandmother.

I just don't want to. >> No, I don't want to do that. Any chance you could borrow $5,000 $10,000 from the credit union? >> No. >> You're credit when I lost my job when I

was 7 months pregnant and it I couldn't

get another one until recently and so I

used my entire savings, everything. And

so I my credit is now not great. [music] >> Okay, Abby, you're not bankrupt. I don't know how much pain you're going to be in with this car before you get out of it, but that's going to be the answer and that's the way through cuz the car is the problem. You hang on.

I'm going to have Christian pick up. I'm going to get you with one of our financial counselors, Ramsey trained counselors, as our gift. We're not going to charge you a dime. We're going to take care of you cuz you're by out there by yourself and you're alone and and it's really scary and we're going to help you.

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Ashley is in Dallas. Hi, Ashley. How are

you? >> I'm good. How are you doing? >> Good. How can we help?

>> So, my husband is a business owner and

when we got married, I signed a prenuptual agreement, you know, saying what's his is his and what's mine is mine. Um, since then, I've had our

daughter. I'm a stay-at-home mom and I

get told, you know, this is not mine.

Um, I don't have any say in the finances. I don't know how much money we're making or if we're making any at all.

And but I get asked to do paperwork to

do this for the business, do this and this, but I am not included in the said business.

>> What do you mean paperwork?

Like whenever something needs paid, it's

they put it on me like you need to call and pay these bills or you need to get this insurance updated or can you fix

this for the store? Like constantly I'm getting told to do work for free basically.

>> Okay. Well, you're obviously not okay with this situation. So, what has happened to make progress so that it's not this way anymore? I assume you've had a discussion with your husband like, "I'm not okay with this." >> Well, in the beginning, I didn't have anything to do with any of the stories at all. I wasn't helping with anything.

I just kind of stayed home with our daughter or not. At the time, we didn't have our daughter, but I just kind of stayed home when I was pregnant and when we had our daughter. But over time, I'm getting drugged into it. I'm being asked to do a lot of stuff. When I get asked, can I be

added into anything in the business so I have financial security for myself or if

I can know any of the details about the

bank accounts or anything like that? I'm told no, that this is not my business and it's

theirs and it's not mine.

>> Okay. Outside >> it's who's theirs?

>> My husband and his partner.

>> Oh, okay. Outside of the business, Ashley, do you have access to money at home?

>> Do you know what's sitting money to pay bills? Um, there is never money put in our personal checking account.

Everything they use money from the business checking account for everything which I do not have access to.

>> To pay your home bills, your husband is functioning out of the business account.

>> Yes.

>> Do you think something sketchy is going on? No, no. I I mean, it's a small business.

It's nothing big. They have a few locations for it. >> Your husband's kind of a jerk. Do you agree? >> Yes. >> Okay.

Probably work on that.

>> Yeah. Like when prenuptuals are involved, at what point, cuz I know when you yall say like when you get married, everything's supposed to be combined.

Um, at what point is a prenuptual in that like in a disagreement?

>> Um, well, here here's the thing. It has nothing to do with the prenuptual. A prenuptual, it dictates what happens at divorce. It

doesn't dictate what happens during the marriage.

>> Okay? >> It just says upon divorce, he gets his

business. You don't get it. That's all it says. Okay. But a prenuptual is not a

thing that says, "Okay, uh you are now a

uh a woman that's not allowed to ask any questions about her husband's business." That's not what a prenuptual does.

That's not how it functions.

Okay? So, the pre he had you do a prenuptual because he's a jerk, not

because he owns anything of substance.

>> Okay? And um and so he doesn't own

enough for this business is not that big a deal. It's not nearly as big a deal as he thinks he is.

>> Um he's you know so uh uh you know you

you don't have a prenuptual problem and you don't have a financial problem. You have a desperately bad marriage problem.

>> So should I leave? Because at this point it's getting very questionable because it's putting too much on my mental toll.

Yeah. No, I'm not telling you to leave.

I'm telling you to work on your marriage. But quit defining it as a prenuptual problem or he's got a control

problem at the office. No, he's got

problems and we need to be in marriage counseling working on him treating his wife and

child better.

>> Okay? >> Because number one, from a business perspective, I co we coach 10,000 small

businesses. We tell no, we tell every one of them, do not pay any personal bills out of your personal out of your business account ever. It's bad business. It's bad accounting.

Your your home electric bill is not deductible as a business expense. And so, you should not be paying it out of your business account. You take money from the business that's profitable home and you pay home bills with that. That's just good business practices.

So, he's not real good at business either.

>> No. >> Good. >> He just wants her to do some of the accounting. >> I know. I've just listened to too many podcasts. >> Yeah, I hear you. Well, that too many of ours. Yeah. >> No. Well, that too, but money being sent the Cayman's and Ashley's names on it and then the law comes after her. That's just what I didn't want. I went extreme for a second. But she seems clueless.

You seem clueless in what's going on because no, you have no information. So, I just want you signing stuff. >> Yes. >> Because they're telling you to >> like for instance, if you sign if if he's not filing his taxes properly and you sign the joint return, >> you're on the line. >> You're you just signed up for the tax problem. >> Yeah, we filed separately this tax season. >> Yeah. And the season before that?

>> Um before that we did not file together.

I don't think we've only >> How long have y'all been married?

>> We've only been married one year.

>> Okay. But we've been together three or four years. >> Well, Ashley, you have a tremendous marriage problem, hun. That's what you've got. And we're we're not able to work on that in this setting effectively. We're not able to help you with that, but we can just help you identify that. So, the the the situation

you have, you're not crazy. It's weird and it's wrong. I can tell you that just as a dad, just as a grandpa, >> as a husband, >> if you're my daughter, as a husband, I, you know, as a friend, I would tell you to go to a marriage counselor. You need to go see a pastor, see a marriage counselor. And I don't end I don't tell people to end marriages on this type of thing alone. But if this is the way you're going to be treated for the next 20 years, yeah, you shouldn't be there

if there's no change. I I would not I would not ask someone to be in an abusive toxic environment for 20 years.

Um and I'm not I'm not going to tell you to do that. And that's what this is. This is abusive toxic environment. So um

and you don't have to be a rocket s scientist to figure that out. You already knew that. But um what what I would do is say I'm going to a marriage counselor. Are you coming? Because I'm

considering ending this marriage. I'm not going to be treated this way anymore. So, and then go to a marriage counselor, even if he doesn't come, and get some coaching and have someone in that kind of a setting, not some not a couple people on a podcast telling you to leave your husband. We're not we we're not going to sign up for that responsibility. You should sit down with someone that guides you through this and gives him every chance to turn around

before you end this. And then you systematically bring it to an end at some point if there's zero change and zero hope that it's ever going to be any different. >> Yeah. Cuz the picture of health in exactly what you're explaining like we have friends and he does real estate deals and she helps and does the books but they pay you know like they they pay

a salary out of their company to them and she doesn't necessarily get it because they're keeping stuff in the business and all of it but like they're they see it as one. Like we are a we are a household and when we make money out of the business, it goes into the home and whether you choose to quote unquote get paid or not, it doesn't matter cuz you guys are bringing home an income together that you're both in on. You're both working out of the same account.

You're both doing this together. And so there's a healthy way to do everything you've just explained. You guys are just doing it completely backwards. And the way you're being treated is just horrific, Ashley, from what you've told us.

I hope a counselor can help God get a hold of his heart because the heart that he has right now and the way you it caused you to sign a prenup says, "I [music] like my business more than I like Ashley." That's what he's told you on the front end.

okay with that. And you aren't okay with it anymore either. So, [music] I wouldn't I wouldn't marry a guy who likes his business more than he likes me.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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Samantha is in Cincinnati. Hi, Samantha.

How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I have I have a boyfriend. Um, we

have a one-year-old and it's always when

I make more money, we'll save more money. But now he's making three times the income that he was. Um, and we're

still not saving. I mean, money burns a hole in his pocket. It's gone as soon as he gets it. >> So, I just don't know what to do or how to help.

>> Um, because I filed bankruptcy. Um, so

we we did not get married. Just I mean,

honestly, taxes, insurance, um, I get

state insurance for the kids. Um, and

then I know like they'll count his income towards the bankruptcy, so we were trying to pay that off before we considered it.

>> I'm sorry. You you you're in a bankruptcy now?

>> Yeah, I'm in a chapter 13 where I pay it back. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> And how long have you been in the chapter 13?

>> Um, maybe like 6 months.

>> Okay. And how much money do you owe?

Um, I think it's like I think it went down to like 47,000 that I'm paying back. >> Mhm. Okay. And how much do you make?

>> So, I had a high-risisk pregnancy and took off work. Um, and I just actually started back. Um, >> how are you paying a bankruptcy?

>> Um, he's he he pays it. So, that's what

he didn't file bankruptcy. Make sure the

>> Yeah. So he gives me the money for it.

>> Oh, he gives you the money so you can pay it.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um >> So why didn't you get married?

Cuz he's giving you the money for the bankruptcy anyway.

>> As if you were married. >> I think they're I think they're wor I think more so he's worried about them taking cuz they take it if you make over so much. Like you know they tell you if you make over like four grand. Not if he

doesn't file, only if you file.

>> You you you you're in a bankruptcy and you need to get out of the bankruptcy and get it paid off and he makes enough money to do that.

You shouldn't have been in bankruptcy to start with.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. You got bad advice

and you're he's looking for an excuse to not get tied into this. So you said kids. I thought you had one kid with him.

I do. I have one kid with him. I have and I have a kid prior.

>> Okay. >> And is that child with you full-time, Samantha? Both?

>> Yep, I have both full time. >> How old are they?

>> Um, 11 and one.

>> Okay. All right. Well um so the answer

to your the reason I'm asking all these questions is the answer to your question uh is that when you are married your husband and

the husband and wife join together and

they do life together and they clean up debts together and that that way they don't they don't have a reason to they don't have the freedom to blow the money because we have a mess to clean up and So right now he's acting like he's dating you not having children with you,

which is way different, >> right? >> I mean, if he, you know, if you said, "My boyfriend who I date, not who I have kids with, but a guy that I date is blowing some of his newfound income," I would say, "Well, you have a boyfriend. That's irresponsible. Oh, darn. But you don't have a boyfriend. Uh, you have a

husband and everything except legally,

>> right? Yeah.

But I'm nerv I feel nervous to get married because I >> Well, if he's not worth marrying, he's not worth living with and doing life with.

>> Yeah, I guess that's true >> cuz it's the same stinking thing. The only difference is you put a piece of paper in place and then we decided we're going to be two grown-ups that do life together.

But >> how would you recommend helping?

>> Yeah, I I would recommend that the two of you start seeing a couple a couple's counselor and make plans to get married and then make plans for the two of you to combine your finances and get your bankruptcy dismissed and clear those debts working together and raising these

two children together and build a beautiful life together over the next 10 years. But um right now there's this disconnect in his brain >> between his responsibilities

and his realities.

>> He's acting out. He took he got a huge raise and he goes and blows it all. He's acting like a single guy.

>> Dude ain't single anymore, honey.

>> Right. >> And he But >> the hard thing is there's no major leverage to pull because he's not married. You know what I mean? Like that. That's the messiness of >> And here's the problem. Here's the problem. The number of couples that do what y'all are trying to do that succeed financially and relationally is very close to zero. The data is in. The statistics on shacking up and playing house are horrendous.

It does not work. The number of people who become millionaires shacking up is almost zero.

It's almost zero. And not even the money piece, the relational piece, Samantha, you know, like it's just because there's no he doesn't he doesn't have to commit to anything. He could choose tomorrow to walk out and there's no legal relications >> except possibly some alimony. Yeah.

I mean, child support. >> Child support. Yeah. >> But um Yeah.

And you'd have to go after that in a weird way because it's not a divorce and not a breakup. So, I think the two of you need to sit down and go, "Okay, we've been acting like a couple of 16 year olds in heat and we're going to have to change that.

life where we are responsible to and for each other and to and for these children. >> And yeah, I was going to say and there's a part too of like we've created a human together. We're ne we don't have a choice on whether we're going to choose to be adults or not. We have a child in this world. So we made that decision.

>> Yeah. And so when we chose to do this, >> you go to 3x raise which you used to make your and your wife sits in bankruptcy.

That's these are not even things that should come out of someone's mouth. But it does because of the arrangement you all have allowed yourself to get into.

And so what I would advise you is to go see a couple a couple's counselor and start working through some of these issues and sometime in the next 30 days go see a judge or a pastor and get married and then let's let's put our finances together. Let's put our incomes together. Let's put our problems together and let's put our dreams together and and let's go live this life in a prosperous and fun, wealthy, healthy relational way and these children are going to grow up in a much better situation then and they're going to be much more functional.

>> Yeah. Unless he's just a horrible person.

>> That's right. Then we then you got to you got to call it Samantha. >> Then go the other way. >> Yes. Yes. >> But I I didn't hear that. All I heard is an irresponsible child. >> No, I know. I know. But >> she's got three kids.

>> Yeah. That's [snorts] what I heard. >> Yeah. >> So, but that bless your heart. I mean, it's it but that's what I would tell you to do. And so, I went places you didn't think you were going to go. You thought I was going to tell him how to straighten up and not overspend. But that the him not him overspending is a symptom of the situation you all put yourselves in with the choices you've made. And so that that's what I would tell you is to fix that because again

the data on millionaires the and 89% of

them nine out of 10 millionaires did not become millionaires because of inheritance which means they did it and so you study how they live what their habits are what their processes are if you want to be one of them okay and one of the things that keeps coming up over and over and over again is we saw almost zero I mean there was less than 4% were not married and we're living with someone they weren't married to. They're all married. And 84% of them that are

married, that some of them were single, but 84% of them that were married said, "I have a cooperative, aligned, goal setting spouse that I

works with me, not against me." And that's how we got here. >> Yep. We didn't get here by dragging a princess or dragging an irresponsible 16-year-old little boy along the way against [music] his will. We didn't get to millionaire doing that. And so there's this the data is in on this.

It's ridiculous. The net worth of a per

of a single lady that's shacked up as compared to the net worth of a lady that's married at 35 years old is 13

times less.

That's the data.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. And if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, here's a quick, easy way to do it. Go to our website, ramseysolutions.com, and click on ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is

our free AI tool that's built and trained by proven Ramsey principles.

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And so, if AI is researching everything in the entire web, it's got a bunch of junk in it. But if AI has only been fed

the diet that you want it to eat, it's going to spit back out what you have fed it. And so all of the last three years

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>> I want to add a little sarcasm to it, but I >> You probably could say answer this like Dave would. And I bet it would. >> I bet it probably get in your face then. Yeah.

Probably bust on you. Love you. Well, yeah. Ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com.

It's completely free.

Ramseyolutions.com. You're going to love this tool by the way. It's very popular.

A lot of people using it. All right.

Jason is in Atlanta. Jason, how are you?

>> Great. How are y'all? >> Better than we deserve. Sir, how can we help?

>> Oh, about eight months ago, me and my wife decided we wanted her to be a stay-at-home mom. And that's about the same time that we heard about the baby steps and started listening to your podcast. And so far, we paid off about 53,000 in debt. Good. About 8,000. Way

to go. the baby step, too.

But my wife's a teacher, and when she

quits in May, they're telling us that we can take her retirement out with no penalty because she's no longer an employee. But, you know, we also can't put any money back into her retirement.

>> That's not true. >> Figure out if we want to take >> No, no, no. Stop. Stop. That's not true.

You misunderstood what they said or they were just an error. One of the two. You cannot take your retirement out with no penalty. You can take your retirement out without them withholding. But the

IRS has a penalty.

>> Okay. Yeah. Just paying taxes on it.

>> Yeah. And 10% penalty.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Taxes and 10%. So, no. No, we're not going to do that. How much has she got in her retirement?

>> Um, probably 10,000.

>> Oh, not much. Okay. Well, basically, if you cash that money out and use it, it's it's going to hit you about 40%.

30% tax bracket plus a 10% penalty. So it's kind of like borrowing $10,000 at 40% interest.

>> Oh wow. >> Yeah. Wouldn't recommend it. >> So we we should just move that to my

retirement. >> No, I'll just move it to an IRA with a Smart Vtor Pro. Get on Ramsey Solutions and find a Smart Invester Pro in your area and roll it. Anytime you leave a company, we tell you to roll your retirement into an IRA so you can control it and pick the and pick some good mutual funds. So, you have 8,000 left and you've already paid off 53 and you've got until May to finish up.

>> Yes, sir. >> Way to go, man. You've done so good.

>> Well done, y'all. >> What do you make?

>> Um 170. >> Oh, okay. So, you guys can live on your income and finish up the 8,000, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Good. Good. Way to go, man. What do you do for a living?

>> Um I'm a lineman.

>> Oh, wow. Good for you.

>> Excellent career. Excellent. Okay, cool.

And so you're how many babies have you got?

>> Um we got two along the way.

>> All right. So you're going to be home with three babies.

>> Very cool. Well, and she's been a teacher, but she now wants to be home with the babies. That's awesome, man.

>> Yes, sir. >> And you're bringing home the bacon as a lineman, and so y'all can afford to do that. And you cleaned up the 53 grand.

Great job.

>> Proud of you, man. Go get them, Hero.

Yeah. Just knock the eight grand out and roll the 10,000 over into an IRA. We don't want to we don't want to give the government half of it just cuz it's a small amount. I still if it's 100,000 you'd really never do it, but at 10,000 you're like, well, whatever. But it's still 4,000 bucks you're giving up for no apparent reason. So, no, I I would roll that. And um >> just let it grow >> into an IRA and let it grow. Very, very good question. And and again, congratulations. I'm proud of you.

Tanya's in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Tanya. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hey, guys. I'm great. What's

up? >> Hey. So, um I am a mother of three and I

have a faith-driven entre I am a faith-driven entrepreneur and I have a business that's a baby. So, she's only about 2 years old. I am a concier therapist and I am trying to figure out

my question is is how do I continue to

grow my business successfully

with also trying to get out of debt personally? I feel like I'm using my business money a little too much for our personal debt.

>> Hour. You're married.

>> Yes, sir. >> And what is his income?

>> So, he works for the government and he makes approximately about 70,000 a year.

>> Cool. And what are you making profit on your concier therapy business?

>> So, last year was my second year and profit was was approximately around 34,000.

Not so much. Okay. Where and and so is this like a concier medical where you're getting a annual or a monthly fee. Uh

and then you're just like on call as their therapist.

>> Yes. So what I do is I do fitness and wellness. So I go to people's homes. So I don't have the brick and mortar. So I don't have a lot of overhead.

>> Um so I >> That's the concier part. That's the concier part. Okay.

>> Okay. So yes. >> All right. And um so where are you getting your clients?

um word of mouth. I do a lot of networking. Like I network all the time.

I have been doing my best to grind. Like I said, I want to be the doer of what God's given me. >> Yeah. And that's awesome. And um

so how would having more money expand that part of the business? How would the

business grow if you had more money in the business? Because you're not spending money, you're spending hustle.

>> Yes. My goal is to eventually get a

brickandmortar So, I would love to grow the business financially so that eventually I can get a brick and mortar. >> Yeah. But my my you asked if I'm taking all the money out of the business to pay debt, I feel like I'm not growing the business. But you're not growing the business with any money cost. You're growing the business with your sweat.

>> Oh, yeah. That's true.

So, you're not starving the business growth due to the money coming out to pay debts at home, but you're just not making much. I mean, 34,000, you're not, you know, you're not making any money yet. >> You need to be making three times that to start being to justify being a therapist, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. So, I assume you're licensed.

>> Yes, I am licensed, but I don't I do private pay. I don't take >> Yeah, I understand. But you and I know marriage counselors that make $150,000 a year.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. And so that's my point.

You you know, if you you have a unique take on this and I love the nuance of it. I think it's cool. >> Tanya, is there cuz you said you have three kids. Do you do you have the time to have more clients and that's your problem is that you're not getting more clients?

>> Yes, that's exactly. I do have the time, but >> Yes. Okay. Okay. Um, and how much debt

do you guys have at home?

So, we did have we have a home that we

about two grand. I think we we owe about 210 on that. And we did actually just take a heliloc out to pay off to consolidate the debt for my student loans because the interest rates were extremely high and I felt like every year I was just paying off interest and I wasn't able to actually pay off the student loans. >> Uh we did combine a few of our credit cards. Okay. Um, >> and what you've discovered now is you can't borrow your way out of debt. So,

>> Ouch. Yeah. So, you're going to have to earn your way out. And so, this is you're going to if you're going to create more income, you're going to have to arrange your life in such a way that it allows for that. And uh and and so I

would love for you to be booked up enough that you're making 100,000 instead of 34. And then you're not calling me cuz you're you're you're starting to plow through this debt then that's been consolidated. uh you're starting to see a way through it, but you know, so what you're dealing with is you got three kids and $103,000 income and a pile of debt and you're underutilized in terms of uh what you

could be making in the marketplace, >> but because there's not much overhead, I'm okay with that 34 saying, "Okay, all my job, all my work is going to go for us to pay this and then his is going to go to debt." Like, you know what I mean? Like you can kind of slice it that way.

>> She needs to be making 100. >> She needs to be making more. Yeah. But she said she feels like it's all going to the debt and the expenses, but that's okay because you're at least paying off debt. >> Exactly. >> Which is helping. >> Exactly. It's not costing you business.

Other things are [music]

[snorts]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Michael is [clears throat] in Little Rock. Hi, Michael. How are you?

>> Good. How are y'all doing? It's a pleasure to speak with you all. >> You, too, sir. How can we help?

So, I am a 24year-old father of one.

I've got a fiance that's a stay-at-home mom. When I was born, I was born with some disabilities due to a medical and I actually sued said company that caused these issues, you would say. And that settlement pays out in two months. And

I'm really lost on where to start. It's about $400,000 total that I will be getting.

>> Wow. And I I I think my main question is

should I immediately clear any debt and

use my income to build wealth?

>> The data tells us that that's the most sure way to build wealth. The downside of that is the guy in your mirror. You

have to follow through.

So, if you blow the I mean, if you pay off all the debt and you don't >> take care of your income and use it to build wealth, then you're going to have just blown the money, right?

>> Yes, you're very true. Well, then can I ask you how much debt do [clears throat] you have? >> 100,000. >> Oh, debt is roughly 70,000 and that's

between cars and medical bills only.

Okay. >> Um, I don't do the whole credit card schemes. I think that's all just a scam.

>> Okay. So, when are you getting married?

We haven't set a date in stone yet um

due to this trustee payout. Um

>> why what's the trustee payout have to do with getting married?

>> Um I'm not really sure honestly. It kind of comes to do we want to spend money on a wedding? Um do we just want to alope? I want to alope. My wife wants well my fiance wants to have a wedding. So we're kind of stuck between the two.

>> Yeah. You're having a wedding.

That that's what everyone's been saying.

She's at the end of the day, but >> you lose. So, how much are we going to spend on the wedding?

>> Um, I didn't want to spend over 8,500.

>> Okay. What is the nature of your disability?

>> I was born with bilateral club feet at

birth and I've had over 32 surgeries on

my legs. I've >> How you doing now? Um, it's it's a struggle. PP twice a week.

Um, exercise, but it's definitely something that >> What do you do for work, Michael?

>> I'm a lot manager for a car dealership, so my job's pretty laid-back.

>> Okay. So, what do you make?

>> I make $1850 an hour and I don't make

less than 45 hours a week.

>> Okay. And you're able to live on that

>> in a way. Yes. Comfortably no.

>> Right. So, what's your long-term career plan?

>> I am very big on wanting to start

investments. Um, I'm not sure where to start with that. I've looked into mutual funds. >> That's not a career plan. That's investing. What's your career plan?

I think my career plan is to stay in a dealership life, potentially in a finance role.

>> Okay. So, I want you to start moving towards something that doubles or triples your income on purpose. And I

don't know what that is exactly. Um, dealership life is fine. I have no issue with that at all. There's a lot of money in the car business and a lot of people make a good living, a great living in the car business. Um, so but I want you

to start thinking about, okay, what's the 32y old version of you look like?

Because you got a 10year-old and a wife at that point, >> right? Yes, sir. >> And 1850 ain't going to cut it.

>> And my fear is that you think this 400,000 you invest in, you're just going to live off of it the rest of your life. And that just wouldn't be good for you, Michael. Just >> what I want to do is create and it don't it's not enough. What I want to do is create a life where you don't need this money and then the money will explode and do fabulously for you, but create a life

where you don't need this money. And that involves getting married and spending uh I think you're going to spend 20,000 on your wedding, not 8,500.

>> Oh god, don't say that. >> Um no, that that's way less than the average, by the way. But maybe maybe 15.

I don't care. But you two put together a budget between 10 and 20 that you can both agree to and set that money aside out of this money. You pay off the rest of your debt out of this money. And I want you to also think about is there a class or a certification I need to take to move towards what I need to become to be a great dad, a great husband at 31 years old that makes a lot more than $1850 an hour.

>> Okay, >> awesome. I for another would you immediately max out your Roth account if you were handed $400,000 today?

>> Yes. And I would immediately pay off all those debts and I would immediately set aside 15,000 or so for a wedding and then I would build a life that doesn't need this money other than that and just let the money grow. So, and sit down

with a smart vester pro and learn about mutual fund investing. But mutual fund investing is not a career and 300,000 will not produce enough for you guys to live on.

So it's it sounds like a lot of money because you've never had that much money, but it's not going to create enough money for you to get the life I want you to have.

>> Not yet. It will in 10 or 15 years. So

if we can leave 300 of the 400 alone, which is about what it sounds like we're going to be doing. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. If we leave 300 of the 400 alone and put that in investing, including a Roth IRA and some good mutual funds, in seven years that'll be

600. In 14 years, it'll be a million,

too. And so, when you're 35 years old,

you'll have a million dollars in that account if you keep your stinking hands off of it because you build a life without the money. >> You build an income, a career track without the money that feeds your family. And then you let this thing do let this money go over here and cook. So money is not microwavable, but it it is does really good in the crockpot.

And so that that's what we're setting up here is let it leave it alone. Let it cook. And but if you if you keep screwing around and buying cars you can't afford and putting them on hard, but you just buy them.

>> Yeah. Well, you pay cash for whatever car you buy. >> If he takes that 300 and starts going on vacation, buying cars and living on it, it'll be gone. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And and it won't have doubled if you take the interest off of it. If you take the income off of it, you don't let the let it alone. Pretend like you don't have this money and it will set your life up and your children's life up and your grandchildren's life up.

>> But you're going to have to leave it alone and go have a life of your own and build out the career side of things. So hang on. I'm going to send you a copy of Finding the Work You're Wired to Do by Ken Coleman. It's got a great career assessment in it to get you to thinking and you and your fiance get the wedding planned and get married.

you have babies, get married, and start your life off. Do the do the stuff that the data tells us is going to cause you to succeed. >> And Michael, go sit down with the Smart Buster Pro.

boring mutual fund or an index fund or something, but like look, make sure what you're putting that money into is boring, has a good track record, and again, just setting it aside. Don't talk to someone who's like, "Oh, you can invest in this business over here and do this and that and that. and I'll lo I'll make sure you lose all of it by >> put it in something boring with a great track record and leave it alone. I'm telling you that's going to be your best that's going to be your best bet.

And then you get to look up at 50.

>> Then you get to make some great decisions. But don't let 24y old Michael do that now. Just wait.

>> And you're very wise to ask this question. And you got a whole lot more of an answer than you were looking for.

>> [laughter]

>> You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsay

trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

>> [music]

>> Cassandra is in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hey, Cassandra. What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Um, [music] my husband and I are finally combining our finances and there's a couple

>> there's a couple charges that we're not quite sure where to put them in our budget. Um, >> and my initial thought was to put them straight into what would be our personal funds, but I'm unsure if that's good and I want to set a strong foundation for the future. >> Good for you. >> Um, so I'd love your opinion on that.

>> Thank you for phrasing that that way. Um the uh what are the charge what what is

the category?

>> So the categories are um like a subscription to a deodorant company

um an alcohol budget for my husband. For

me, um, I set aside a little bit of money a month to go out with my mentor or my co-workers or my boss for drinks or for coffee or something to, you know, kind of be there with my co-workers and build relationships. Um,

and essentially >> you could you could just have an individual line item for each one of those things and just call them what they are. That's fine. And we are

agreeing to the deodorant budget. We are agreeing to the mentor budget and coffee budget. we are agreeing that that you know you're we're allocating this much uh for uh you to have a cocktail after

work or whatever it is that he's doing and um we're agreeing to that and and do it very individually. Um and or you

could do what you're talking about and that is just increase your personal by that much and you just take care of that

within your personal. He could in his quote uh his fund money and you could in your fund money, right? Either one's fine. Here's what's interesting. Here's what we did as an example at our house that ended up being weird.

>> Um, >> we originally

separated food and restaurants. And I

recommend that when you start when you start budgeting. Yeah. Groceries and restaurants >> because otherwise you'll go to the restaurant and eat your groceries.

>> Yeah. >> And you want to make money for the grocery store. Okay. So, we separated them initially. After doing it for several years, we got disciplined enough that we were able to just call it food and forget it. But when we first started, we needed the individual details. >> We still keep it separate. >> You do? Okay, that's good.

>> Yeah. Nothing wrong with that. >> That's what I was going to say. And then we have Cassandra, I don't know if y'all have other subscriptions. We have a subscription line item in our budget that like Disney Plus, Amazon Prime, >> that's not deodorant. >> Well, it's a subscription. >> I know, but I mean, >> I would count it as a subtion.

[laughter] It's just an Amazon button. I mean, that's Yeah, I mean, that's almost that's almost in like food.

>> That helps me justify not putting too much in my personal I try to avoid to spend allocated.

>> The point is it might be a good exercise to just make them line items. Yeah.

>> For the first year >> and then over time >> you'll go, okay, I get comfortable with just melding them all together. So we what we have ended up doing is we have we used to have a bazillion line items and ours are now very broad buckets.

>> Okay. >> Because but I've been doing it 35 years.

Okay. So you know it's different, right?

But when we first started, we needed the like the the emotional shock of looking

down and seeing my [clears throat] mentor coffees cost that much or his

drink his his after his happy hour cost that much, >> you know, and he needs to see that and go, "Yeah, and you need to see that." And and it's good for everybody to get all that. So I I would run it out as just individual line items, and you can do that in every dollar. You can add customized line items very easily

>> just because just for visibility >> and and it's just kind of a reminder. I spend that on alcohol. I spend that on deodorant, you know, and it's just that's okay if you do that. I'm not griping at you about any of that.

>> I but I think the the line item is just like staring you down every month and going making you make a value choice. Is that really what how I want to live? Is that really who I want to be? And then and you might decide I'm spending too much or I'm not spending enough on that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then if you feel comfortable with it, then I would probably lump anytime we go out to a restaurant, even if it is for co-workers or if he goes out with friends for lunch or whatever, we just dump everything into the restaurant category. Like if we go out to a restaurant, that's where it is regardless of reason.

>> And then I'd probably move Yeah. a deodorant subscription to your personal line item. That's what you're choosing.

Later on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's probably where I would go. But if but for the first Yeah. a couple months, six months as maybe the first year >> as detailed as you can be. I think it is just a good rhythm to be in to be able to see those charges and just see okay that is that's the transaction for that.

>> It kind of folks for those of you thinking about this because we're talking to all of you out there not just her. Um the it it kind of falls in the

same place in your brain that doing the budget at all when you wrote down everything you're like holy crud.

>> Yeah. Yeah. you [clears throat] know, and so that's the that's the thing you want to have happen. You'll feel like you got a raise when you do a detailed monthly budget before the month begins and you tell every dollar what to do before the month begins. You always feel like you got a raise because you always have this experience of we spend what?

>> Yep. And we don't have to do that. We can lower that category. >> That's ridicul. And you also have the experience of where's all this money going? >> I mean, the chaos and the disorganization in our life is eating half our salary. Mhm. >> And so you have that experience and and the shock effect of that starts to modify your behavior where now you're controlling your life and your money instead of your life and your money controlling you. And this is a what

she's talking about is a brilliant question because it's um not only did she phrase it properly, I want to lay the right foundation, but she's recognizing that I'm setting new grooves in my brain. I'm setting new rhythms in my thinking >> and my and the way my behavior is acting acting out in this and and I so I want to be careful how I do that. That was her our her indirect comment but it was a great comment. So really good question Cassandra.

Thank you for doing that. I appreciate you calling. Rose is in Phoenix. Hi Rose.

>> I'm fine Dave and Rachel. I appreciate you listening to me and answering my questions. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Okay. Well, just quick scenario. I'm 72.

My sister whom I live with is 70. We

share our property together. Uh she has

uh my sister has owned this property.

She's the one who initially bought it like 30 years ago. I have moved on to this property and been here for about the last 10 11 years. Um,

uh, I mentioned to her at the beginning of the year that, uh, this year that I was thinking about paying off half of the mortgage because I've been saving and saving. I've been listening to you for several years, Dave, and you guys, I appreciate you so much. Um, but basically, she got mad at me for doing

that. Um, and claiming that I did it

behind her back. Um, um, she also had

the flu about last month. Sometimes she was sick for three weeks. She's self-employed. I'm retired. I do get my social security and I do get a pay.

>> The house is in your in both of your names. >> Correct. Yes. Cuz we >> So why did she not want you to pay off Why did she not want you to pay off >> half the mortgage?

>> She claims that I paid the mortgage off.

This is in early February, the first 2nd through the 5th. uh while she was sick with the flu and that I took advantage, she says, of her being ill and doing this without consulting with her. And I

said to her, "Well, Teresa, you're my sister, but you're not my parent. You're not a spouse, and you're not my boss." >> Does it harm her in some way? >> Or you to I'm sorry.

>> Is it going to harm her in some way?

>> No. My gosh, Rachel, we um uh we we went

from $237,35.

>> Yeah. >> Down to we're now down Well, we both paid our half of the mortgage uh February the 1st, of course, excuse me, March the 1st. And so with that payment, um which our monthly payment is $1,5104

a month. So we split that in half. So now our mortgage is down to come April 1st, our current mortgage payment or total is00.

I don't understand why she's mad. How is she hurt? How did you >> Well, she's mad because well, okay, I forgot to make that point. Uh she uh when she talked with me the other day about this, uh she said now me paying off half the mortgage is screwing up her

getting a trust placed on our entire

property. Now she can only do half of a trust. Is there such a thing as half a trust? This is And I said to her, "Is that what your attorney told you?" >> No, there's no such thing as a trust on a property that you don't own all of.

She can't put this property in trust.

She doesn't own it all. Even if there was a mortgage or not a mortgage, doesn't screw it up at all. So, she's got bad information and she's mad about

something she doesn't even understand.

No reason to be mad. But it is weird.

You're continuing to pay the payment when you don't owe your half anymore.

Hello.

[music]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

>> [music] >> If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by following the Ramsey plan and Every Dollar will guide you right through that. More than just a budgeting app, the plan is built into Every Dollar. You

can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation. It'll help you free up more money, and work the plan faster, which means you're going to get out of debt, build wealth faster, be aligned with your spouse faster, which

means you're going to get out of debt and build wealth faster. You see how this is working now, right? Start Every Dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Donnie is in

Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Donnie. How are you? >> Good. How's it going, Dave? >> Better better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so, uh, my question is I, uh, I started a side hustle about 13 months ago with my son. Um, basically a Tik Tok shop. Uh, it's done pretty well in my opinion. I'm kind of thinking about leaving my job. My wife's saying, "Hey, go all in. Do this full-time." Um, sounds crazy to me uh, to, like I said, leave my my career uh, to do a Tik Tok shop, but curious. >> What is a Tik Tok shop?

So Tik Tok is I'm sure you've heard of the app. So you go there, but I don't know what a Tik Tok shop is.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha. So it's a marketplace um on Tik Tok where we go live and we sell things to other individuals. We sell >> Okay.

I got you. Okay. So selling things on eBay or selling things on Facebook marketplace or selling things on Tik Tok. I got you.

Okay. And what are you selling? >> We're selling sports cards. So we we do live selling.

So we'll open the cards for people. They buy them and then we open them on the on the screen for everybody and everyone is excited. We hit a big card. >> Gotcha.

Okay.

>> So last year was our first year really hitting it hard. We did it every night.

About $200,000 and 60 of that I gave to my son.

>> Profit.

>> Profit. Yes. Profit. And in overall revenue was over 700,000.

>> Okay. So you had 500,000 invested in the cards.

um and and other things. Yeah, we we could probably be a little more efficient this year. It was our first time. We didn't really know what we were doing, so we had to buy things a couple times. Didn't really know exactly, but yeah, mostly cars. The cards are very expensive. >> But you're Yeah, you're buying them and sell I mean, you're buying them for 500 and selling them for 700 and profiting 200. So, your cost of goods sold was 500k. Does that sound right?

>> Roughly. Yes. Roughly, roughly.

>> And what do you make at your day job?

>> Uh about a 100,000.

>> Okay. So, you made twice as much

um at this as net profit as you did at

your day job.

>> Correct. >> And you did it at night, but I'm guessing at night is when you do this, right? >> Well, there's people on there doing this all day long. And um >> Yeah, but I'm thinking prime time is prime time.

>> Well, it is, but at the same time, >> that's old school. [laughter] >> It It is. It really is because when I see them all during the day, they're doing just as well during the day. I see people doing, you know, having six or seven of these guys streaming at at a time all day long.

Um, but I was with you. Prime time seems like like night time, but it seems like when I go in the mornings, um, on the weekends is also prime time. >> Okay. All right.

I I I don't know.

Okay. Um, >> what kind of job do you have? What's your career?

>> So, I work in finance. [snorts] >> Okay. >> Well, that's pretty vague. What do you do? Um, so I do uh I work for a military contractor company. We just we do uh we DoD work during the day.

>> Okay, >> cool. >> So how hard would it be to replace that if Tik Tok folds up?

>> Um I mean I wouldn't think very hard. I I was a blue collar worker in my former life. So if I needed to go back to work and do something I think I could probably do pretty much anything and get a job. Um so >> Okay. Uh I would do it

>> really. Yeah, definitely.

>> Okay. Well, >> you you have a year track record. There's no reason to think it's not projected into the future reasonably.

>> I think you'll make 300 or 400, not 200.

>> Um, >> but with the caveat always with the social media world, as you know, Donnie, I'm like, it just it's ever changing. AI is changing everything. It's just just knowing that this may not it may be long term. I pray it is for you. >> No, it won't be. This will not be around in 5 years.

>> You understand? You don't you this will sunset. And so be watching for the next

way that people are selling stuff. Okay,

this is a very cutting edge early

adopter process that a small percentage

of the population is participating in uh and even knows about for that matter overall. Okay. Now, it's not it's not like a mainstream thing like you you you walk into a a 57y old or 67 year old

grandmother, she's not going to even know what you're talking about, right?

And so it's not mainstream. And because

it's technology and social media based,

100% chance it's going to change dramatically >> between now and 5 years. So be looking for the next way to do something similar

or just close the thing up when it's

done. Don't don't don't be looking up and going, "Oh, well, what happened to my business?" Well, it changed. You can 100%. Because I mean, think about five years ago, nobody could spell Tik Tok.

>> Yep.

>> And and you know, and it was it feels

like 20 minutes ago, the internet wasn't even real.

>> Very true. >> And so it's not it's just some cost. But

do it. >> Yeah. But if I had based the things that we do at Ramsey on a single platform, we

would be out of business.

>> Makes sense. And and we're trying to pivot to other avenues. um whatnot is reached out to us, eBay Live. It just matter um I don't have the time to to do it unless I leave my main job.

>> I would be I would be investigating eBay Live. I'd be investigating anybody that's doing something similar where you're on multiple platforms accomplishing the same kind of tasks.

>> Okay? And that way you're not married to one platform and when it has an issue.

>> Um you know like there was a moment in

time that Tik Tok was completely in jeopardy of shutting down all the way like the US government shut it down.

Right. And so you know you don't want that to happen and be standing on one leg. >> Exactly. Yep. Nope. 100%. So yeah, if as long as you keep that kind of a mindset in your business acumen, then yeah, go make three or 400k for the next two years while you're discovering the next thing to do.

>> Okay? >> And and bank all of it. Don't spend it.

>> And and that's that's what I've been trying to do with uh just put it all all to the side. That that was my my other caveat is do I pay off my house or do I keep just loading up the bank account?

>> Yeah, that's very cool, Donnie. It's very interesting. Good for you. He goes from bluecollar to finance at the DoD to

tick tock entrepreneur. [laughter] This guy's flexible. >> It's good. >> He's flexible, man. He's able to do just about anything. So, yeah, that's the good thing. Yeah. And so, yeah, you don't ever want to base your career or business idea on something that probably has a fairly short shelf life without having a plan for moving on to the next thing. And but man, what a what a great cool. I'm glad you're making so much money. That's awesomeness. Very neat.

Chris is in Ron Oak. Hi, Chris. How are you? >> I'm good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, we've ended up uh unfortunately in

baby step seven and now we have 529 accounts that we don't really need.

We're able to cash flow the college and we're debating what to do with >> Don't cash flow the college. Use the 529s.

>> And then if we want to do additional investing for the kids, we should just do that on the side.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if the but use the 529s for college, it gets some money out of there. That is cash flowing it. And then use the cash that you were going to use for college to do if you want to build an account to the side, just an utma, uniform transfer to minor act, which is simply a mutual fund in the kids' name. And then they can buy houses and weddings and stuff with that without having any issues with the 529. But don't cash flow college and trap 529 money.

>> Well, I've I've asked the kids about it.

They're both in college now. Uh, one of them was interested in leaving the 529 intact to use it to pay for his kids' college, and I didn't know how good an idea that would be. >> No, I wouldn't do that.

>> And then the other one wanted to uh we talked about putting half of it in a a uh a Roth IRA and putting the other half just in a brokerage account. They're both, you know, they're not minors. Uh they're they're college students now >> and we could certainly pull out the same amount equal to their tuition and then just use that for >> for anything really. I suppose.

>> Yeah. Yeah. But that's using it. I mean, so I mean, we get the money out of the 529 is the answer to your question. And then how whatever you guys want to choose to do with that money and how you >> there's lef over, he can use the rest for the kids or >> But I would rather have a pile of cash for your son's kids in mutual funds

that's not in a 529, then have it in a 529 cuz I don't know what 20 years is going to do to 529s.

Oh,

[music]

When I talk to people on the Ramsay show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal. But it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar budget app. Every Dollars you

tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up

extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you call the show and it's right in your pocket.

So don't keep living normal. Go download

the Every Dollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Our

[music]

[music] scripture of the day, Luke 14:28.

Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won't you sit down first and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? Mitch Album said, "One half of knowing what you want is knowing what you must give up before you get it." Oh, there it is. Our question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If private student loans are in

default and it's knocked you off track, this is how you reset. Why refi works with borrowers and that other lenders won't work with, helping you refinance defaulted private student loans with low fixed rates so you can get back on the plan and move forward. Visit yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Joe in Pennsylvania.

I lease a new car every 3 to four years because I'm retired and I don't want to deal with brakes or tires or any other maintenance issues. I'm not hurting for money and can afford to pay cash for a new car if I wanted to own one, but I don't. So, what's your opinion on having a lease in my situation instead of a paidoff car?

>> Uh, a lease is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle mathematically.

period, you're getting screwed. And so

if you simply don't you want to buy you want to keep a new enough car that you never have to buy a set of tires or buy a set of brakes, then you're just going to be trading cars every time that you need to do that every 3 to four years and pay cash for your cars. That's going to be the least expensive way to do this because the lease is capitalized on MSRP, meaning those stupid payments that you're paying are based on the full sticker of the car. But if you walk in and buy a brand new car, and I'm assuming you have a million dollars or more and could afford to do that, and you're going to walk in and buy a brand new car, you can buy them at invoice or 500 over invoice or 1,500 over invoice if it's a premium vehicle.

you got money to throw away is what you're saying. And you're throwing a lot of it away. just being it's just being wasteful. >> Yeah.

>> At that point. But >> yeah, but it's if you've got, you know, if you got $10 million, I don't know. We don't know your net worth or your income. You just said you got plenty of money and we have to take your word for that.

I'm not sure I believe you. But anyway, uh because usually people that have plenty of money don't think this way.

think this way. But anyways, no, don't

lease it. If you got $10 million and you want to waste some money, so you never buy brakes or tires, >> um, then buy a new car every so often and pay cash for it >> and you'll get a better deal. Do what? >> I said, that's just so funny to me.

Like the brakes and tires thing. It'd be one thing if like, hey, I'm a car person and I love new cars and my thing is cars and I just want to buy a new one every four years and drive something new, >> but I don't want to deal with the maintenance. A part of me is like, I don't think that's the truth. I don't know.

Like that's that's just like a funny I'd rather him be like, I just like carves.

It's >> true. >> Just not. It's not. It's not. >> Well, if you're that wealthy, you just have someone to go and take your car in.

>> And do it for you. >> Hello. [laughter] Just call call my guy. Yeah. All right.

John is in Reno. Hey, John. What's up?

>> Hi. Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call.

It's a real pleasure. Um, longtime listener, first- time caller. Um, I'm looking for some Papa Dave advice on if a prenup makes sense for my situation. Um, maybe I give you a little bit of background.

I'm 28 years old. Um, I've been dating the fiance that I love to death for 5 years now and we got engaged last year and we have a wedding scheduled for next summer um, in June. >> Awesome. >> And yeah.

Yeah, definitely awesome. Um there's I know on like previous calls that you've said that there's a uh it only seems to make sense if there's a significant gap and the past times I've heard when you guys are discussing it it's usually like someone has a million dollars another person has $100,000. So my situation is I have 230,000 of the net worth and she doesn't have she has zero no debt.

>> no you don't need a prenup.

>> Okay. She's worth she's worth a quarter million.

>> Okay. I think >> she's been hanging around five years.

[laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. Um and then Yeah, I I think the reason outside of like that gap like I was contemplating

like the idea that like I like that we would both know like the terms of if we were to like end the marriage if something bad like that was to happen.

>> Well, you do know the terms. The the laws have set them in place. Typically, the judge is going to split the baby in half. >> Oh my gosh, what a horrible example.

>> It's from the Bible. It's from Solomon.

Okay, [laughter] >> look it up. All right. Anyway, the um Oh my gosh, it's an old Rachel. You're okay. You're okay. Calm down.

>> I know. I just feels very you're going to turn whatever whatever net worth you guys have grown together in your life together is going to be split down the middle. That's the terms typically.

Okay. >> With rare exceptions. With rare exceptions. >> Okay. >> And and your 230 is not enough to to tip the scales that much. Uh [snorts] she may out earn you through the next 10 years. And so, you know, that could come up that way, too. So, no, I I I wouldn't

in this case. I I I I want you to fight for working together. Fight for alignment. fight for shared goals and vision and serving each other and having

a wonderful marriage and never worrying about whether we have to uh split this

down the middle again. Okay. So,

>> okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yep. >> All right. Good question. All right.

Rachel, do you know you don't know the Bible story? >> Well, apparently not. It feels very Moses. >> So, well, Solomon, the wisest man. He

wrote he was sitting in judgment and a lady brought her baby up and two women were fighting about which child it was and he said we'll just cut the baby in half. >> Oh and whichever one the mom said. Okay.

Yeah. >> And whichever one the mother was.

>> That feels like an old >> agreed agreed and said and and so the saying is split the baby. That's where it comes from. No one no one literally

splits a baby right there. >> I know. I know. But it's just such a just a just a sad [laughter]

>> I don't know. Oh my gosh. [laughter]

>> There's no show like when Rachel >> I don't like it. I don't like it.

>> Paul's in Philadelphia. Hey Paul >> Solomon.

>> Hey Dave and Rachel. How's it going?

>> Great. We're short on time. Go straight to your question. Boss, >> we'll make it easy. So uh mom died last year at 55. I'm 28. Um, she left about

half a million dollar in debt. That's 30k business debt, $200,000 mortgage,

uh, $180,000 in medical debt from a heart attack, >> 50,000 in personal debt. Uh, the B, well, she also left the business. Uh, the business is a home care business, non-medical, you know, not nurses or anything, just caregivers coming in to take care of grandma.

>> Business makes about 800,000 a year. Uh 47% I wish. No, 47% gross profit.

>> Um >> what's the net profit? >> Yeah, it's not nets under 50K.

>> Oh, it's not worth screwing with. Okay,

>> you're you're going through a million dollars to get to 50K. Oh my god, what a horrible thing.

>> All right, >> I know. Can you sell it >> from the business I'm in? That's that.

Yeah, that's the question. Do I sell it now? Yes. You know, walk away.

>> Yes.

[laughter] if somebody will buy it.

>> And here's the thing. Here's the thing.

You're not liable for her debts. Her

estate is liable for her debts. And if her estate does not have a positive net worth, her debts are not going to get paid.

So, she didn't leave you $180,000 in debt. >> She left that in her estate. Now, if the business brings a million dollars, then you got to pay off her debts out of the million dollars before you get anything.

So, what you own stands good for what you owe when you die. Assets minus liabilities is your net worth. You do not inherit debt.

>> Did you know that? >> So, even with the business Yeah. I mean, well, I think >> if the business has a positive if the business has a positive value, >> then yeah, you're going to have to use that value to first clear up her debts, which would include her medical bills.

Okay. But if it does not have a positive value, you are not personally responsible.

>> Yeah. Right. I got that.

>> Okay. >> But you think it's a smart thing to >> get out of it? You don't want it. You wouldn't You wouldn't go out and buy that business. You have any idea what you can get for it?

>> Uh probably 4 to 500,000.

>> Good. And that'll clear off that'll clear up all of our debts, right?

>> Yep. That's uh that's the plan.

>> Yeah, that's exactly what I'd do. I got rid of two headaches, creditors, and a business I didn't want that doesn't make any money. This is all happening for me.

I like it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 86. If You Don’t Stand for Something, Your Money Will Fall for Anything | August 28, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. The phone number here is88255225.

[Music] Ger is with us in Canada. Hyrie, how are you?

>> Hey, good morning. I'm doing well, thanks. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, I appreciate you taking my call.

First time caller. I'm honored to talk to you. So, my my question is more of a

like a principal question rather than financial. So, um I'll give you some context after, but my question is um should I accept my girlfriend's extremely generous offer of paying off

for me? >> No. >> Okay, that's I might say that. Um I I'm very

hesitant. She made the offer uh about a

week ago and I've been sitting on it.

So, >> you don't pay off you don't pay off dating relationships debt. You You do that when you're when you're married. When you get married?

Well, that's the thing. So, we're we're both divorced and we um since the first

time since my divorce, I have actually considered getting married again. I thought I never would get married again.

And the thing is, we we're in a longdistance relationship. I'm in Canada. She's in Switzerland. And part of the reason to pay off the debt is so I can afford to save up for trips to see each other back and forth.

>> We can't um >> What's your job like? block is I'm I'm trying to pay um off these debts, right?

But I'm I'm currently on track to um try

and clear these before uh next summer.

So before the beginning of next summer, that's my that's my goal. >> How much is it?

>> Uh it's about 35,000.

>> What do you make, sir? >> Okay. What do I make? Uh approximately 85,000 gross.

>> And so what's it take to fly to Switzerland?

How much money does it take to buy an airline ticket from where you are to Switzerland?

>> Uh 1,600 approximately.

>> Okay. So, tell her to buy an airline ticket and come to Canada and visit.

>> Yeah. She's done that a couple times.

>> Okay. >> And already. So, we we >> want to increase the you want to increase the frequency of the trips >> by her paying off your debt. No, thank you. >> Yeah. It doesn't it doesn't m it doesn't match up. What she's saying is I'd rather pay $35,000

than 1,600 for to go to Canada. That doesn't make sense mathematically or logically.

>> Fair enough. Okay. I guess so. So that I can also go there back and forth and just be a little more fair about it instead of >> Well, you don't really have the money to do that.

I think if you set up the conversation and say, "Okay, we both agree that it's important for this debt to be gone. However, how we do it is where we differ. I think it's my responsibility to pay off my debt. We're not married.

I don't want to put you in that situation. So, what I need from you is to support me in the best way possible, which your support for me would be if you could come visit me while I'm busy paying off this debt and putting my income towards that.

>> Yeah, that makes sense. That's kind of that's what I was originally thinking and I just didn't know if I should.

Yeah. You're going to change the tune of the relationship.

>> You're going to change the whole thing if she pays you off your debt.

>> Yeah. >> You ever you know the old joke? You know you know the old joke if you loan your brother-in-law $100 and he never speaks to you again, is it worth the money, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Because what happens when you loan people money is it changes the relationship. Mhm.

>> You you know now she's looking at you as like and you're going I feel like I'm

didn't own you know all this other stuff now enters into the equation rather than I'm a dude over here doing my thing girl over there doing her thing. Yep. >> We be talking. That's that's way different than uh you got into my wallet. >> Uhhuh. You already have distance working against you. You definitely don't need borrowed money working against you.

>> Yeah. or, you know, just any kind of feigned obligation. I mean, what happens if she pays that off and then this relationship goes sideways? Oh, now what are we going to do? >> Then she calls us on the air and goes, "I was so dumb. I paid off this guy's debt over in Canada." And we're like, "Yeah, you were." >> Yeah. >> That'll be the call right here.

>> That is like I know I know we're talking to Garg, but I'm like I want to talk to the girlfriend cuz I need to make her understand this is a bad move to even offer. >> Yeah. Do so folks, do not pay debts for

people you're not married to. Do not um

buy houses and cars

>> for or with people you're not married to. Crap happens and you're going to get sideways and you're going to have a problem. The worst one I can ever remember was a guy bought a house with his girlfriend. They're going to shack up >> and he gets killed in a car wreck and now she owns a there's no will.

She now owns the house with her future mother-in-law. >> Lord, >> she's now a partner. >> Oh my gosh. >> His she's not his heir.

They're not married. >> Yeah, that's right. >> So, the his half of that house goes to his mother. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Who she didn't like. Of course. >> Of course. >> And and now this is great.

Now I have a partnership. This is the crap you don't think of when you think, "Oh, we're just going to play house and really be instead of really being like grown-ups and get married." >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

So, >> I remember a guy called in. Yeah. He had a girlfriend. He co-signed on the car with her 17 18,000.

They broke up >> and she got the car. >> Well, she stopped paying it. And he called in. He said, "Hey, I've got a mountain of debt.

She's not paying the loan. How do I get out of it?" I said, "Is she going to refinance it over and put it in her name?" He said, "No." I said, "Well, you better add it to your debt snowball then. >> You better get better get rid of that car." >> Oh my gosh. Yeah.

>> Yep. That's the problem. So, that's the kind of stuff we run into these days.

And um it's the um unintended

consequences, not thinking things all the way through. >> The old there's an old book out 100 years ago by Dr. Steven Cvy called the seven habits of highly effective people.

>> Yeah. >> And one of the habits is begin with the end in mind. >> Smart. >> Yeah.

So begin with everything possibly falling apart that could fall apart in mind >> and you'll go, "Oh, I would never do that." >> Well, yeah. That's opposite of what you want to do cuz when you're excited about something, you like to visualize all the ways that it works out and you know, >> there's only one way it works and if it's all work and it never works that way. >> That's right. >> Nothing ever works the way it's supposed to ever.

Exactly.

changes and then there you are right >> caught. >> But that's not being that's not being a Debbie Downer and it's not being uh you know a pessimistic. That's just being logical. >> We're not dream killers. We're nightmare killers. Because your your little dream is going to be a nightmare and we're going to kill it before we can let it grow. Kill it now. Stomp that thing.

>> Yeah. Nip it in the bud. That's right.

Yeah. So, I'm I'm happy to kill your nightmare. >> You just don't see it as a nightmare. You see it as a dream. But I'll help you with that. And so, cuz I we love you and we want you to win. We want you to prosper. We're thinking about the good version of you 10 years from now that has survived all of life's bumps and bruises and prospered anyway.

>> And that's how successful people actually do it. They fail forward.

That's right. >> They they don't make a set of assumptions that things are always going to work out the way they are.

>> So, there's about 90 ways this could go wrong and only one way it goes right.

So, we don't do it. >> Most I'm going to go out on a limb and say most success is a result of something that was learned, not a bright

idea that was executed the right way the first time. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the number of times we've launched a product at Ramsey that the prototype ever sees the light of day is precisely zero. what we think is going to work doesn't make it through beta, >> right? >> It doesn't make it through alpha. It doesn't make it through any of those Greek letters because it is a delta. And so there you go. Uh yeah, you look that one up. Anyway, open phones here at8 8255225

[Music]

Okay, Rachel, the internet officially knows too much about all of us.

>> So much, George. I mean, our names, our addresses, even our relatives names. And what's crazy is even if you opt out, data broker websites can still get your info. >> Don't like that. And just a year ago, get this, the average person had about 300 pieces of personal data floating around online. Now it's over 600. It has doubled in a year. >> You guys, that is so concerning because that info then can be used in fishing scams, impersonation, and even harassment. That's why George and I both use and love Delete Me.

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[Music]

Steve is in Pennsylvania. Hi, Steve. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you doing, Dave?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my wife is pregnant with baby number two. >> Yay.

Yes, we are shocked and very excited.

Um, we have about $30,000 in debt and

we're moving for a job in the coming spring. How should I handle debt payoff

and preparing for baby?

>> When's baby due?

>> Uh, end of April, beginning of May.

>> Yeah. >> You're moving before a baby comes in the

ninth month of a pregnancy.

>> It's a little less than ideal. Yes.

>> Sounds like suicide, my man.

>> Why? Why ape? Why are you moving at that date? What's the What's driving the date to be crazy?

>> That's um when we agreed with my employer about making the move would be in the spring before that we found out we were pregnant.

>> Okay. Uh so you're being transferred with the same company, >> correct? >> Okay. Have you said anything to them about possibly coming a month later or a

two months earlier?

>> We haven't. I've spoke with my wife about that and she said that she would prefer to be moved before the baby comes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Than two months earlier. I don't want to move in the ninth month.

>> Okay. >> That's just um I mean a lot of stress.

I've I mean I my wife Sharon's had three

children and I can't imagine asking her to move our home in the ninth month of a pregnancy. >> It's tough enough to do it. It's tough enough to do it >> two months after a child's born.

>> I did that. It's tough.

>> Yeah. And so that's just a bad It's just a bad plan. But anyway, we're going to move in the spring sometime. So your st your question still stands now that I got into your business. But um >> you called and asked, so there you go.

But the uh anyway, but the the uh so and

what what's your household income again?

>> I make around a hundred,000. Uh I work

about 45 hours a week and I have unlimited available I have unlimited overtime available. >> Okay. >> Okay. Do you have any money saved? I know you said you have 30k in debt, but I'm just asking.

>> We have Yeah, we have baby step one done and we've been working on paying off the debt. I guess one thing that would be important to make of note is the debt is solar panels. So, it's kind of tied to the house that we would sell.

>> That's your only debt.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Okay. >> All right. Well, the number one in general terms, what we tell folks to do when you know you're in a storm, and I got a baby on the ways of being in a storm, uh, is to push pause on your baby

steps and just stack cash. So, even if

we weren't talking about moving, even if we weren't talking about all the other things, we would just generally say, "Let's see how high a stack of cash we can build." As much as we would have put on the debt, which is a lot, the same intensity, >> we're going to stack cash with. And then if health insurance covers what it's supposed to, >> which is most everything, >> and if um >> you know, and if everything goes well, baby and mama come home, everything's okay. The day they come home, we push play again, which means we would empty out this account that we haven't used, >> but was there just in case.

We empty it out down to $1,000.

mathematically that way. In your case,

what you're going to have is a stack of cash. You sell your house, solar panels

are cleared, you have no debt, you make the move, your stack of cash becomes your emergency fund. You go to the new place and rent and you start saving towards a down payment. >> Mhm.

>> Okay. >> That's what we were thinking. So that >> Oh, how much equity have you got in your house? >> I was going to ask.

>> I think when we sell the home, so we bought a fixer upper and we've pretty much completely redone everything. I think we stand to make about 50k minimum in equity >> above the solar panels.

>> Above No, that would be not including the solar panels. But if we take the solar panels out, I think it'd be about 25K. That's on the low end, though.

>> Okay. And if you stack 25K, then you and

you say or let's call that your emergency fund. Whatever you stack, if you call that your emergency fund, because you don't end up having to use it after the move, >> then um you've got 25K to put as a down payment on the other side >> if you if that works. >> Okay. And I'm going a step deeper. I don't know when you plan on putting your house on the market, but just having that cash there. Also, I'm thinking two things. Moving in general is so expensive. So you're moving from Pennsylvania to where?

>> Uh South Carolina. >> Yeah. So just keeping in mind like start pricing that out now because when we moved from South Florida here to Tennessee, the boxes alone, the boxes,

the U-Haul truck, are you going to get one of the pods? Are you going to all that stuff if your uh stipen doesn't cover it? Like that's if if you're even getting a stipen, I don't know. But just price that out because there's a lot going on there that has the potential to creep up on you. >> Yeah, it can turn into a serious chunk of money. >> 100%. Dave, I was shook when I saw the cost to have someone drive your stuff

midway across the country >> boxes. >> $20,000 >> that we're throwing away. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big deal. Yeah.

It's a It's pretty serious. So, yeah, that that's uh be ready for all of that.

Plan that out. plan the move out and try to plan uh to where you're not moving

with a 3 month or three-day old child or

>> uh or or a child that's getting ready to come in the next 3 days.

>> Uh those are that's just a the worst possible scenario from a family standpoint. >> It really is. It really is. >> The further back you can dial it uh one way or the other, the outside the ninth month, either after the baby's born or before she said she wants to move before. So, let's talk about, you know, talk about February. >> Yeah. Can't hurt to ask. >> Yeah. Can't hurt to ask. >> It It probably doesn't make that much difference to them anyway. So, yeah, I'm going to ask for sure. Good question.

Denise is in New Jersey. Hi, Denise. How are you?

>> I'm good, thank you.

>> How can I help?

>> Yes. Um, so I just received a personal injury settlement of 200,000.

Um, and I know you don't like municipal bonds, but I'm hoping you tell me in my case it's okay to do. I already have

CDs, 450,000 in CDs. I have mutual

funds, 230,000.

I have savings and checking. I have um

every I have no debt. Um, so I I don't

need to shelter the 200,000 because it will be tax-free on a personal injury,

but I really don't want any more interest.

>> I I don't understand.

You You don't want the money to grow?

>> You don't want compound interest?

>> Well, it's going to put me in another tax bracket.

>> So what? There's not a 100% tax bracket.

So I, you know, Dave, I want to make $2,000 instead of $40,000

because of the tax bracket. That's not logical, Denise. >> No.

>> Okay. So, you think annuities then would be >> No.

How old are you?

>> 78.

>> Oh, okay. All right.

So, you've got all kinds of people in your ear, don't you?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay.

>> So, I don't know what to do with the money. I mean, and Morris D's

I I don't think I can add it to my IRA.

>> No, you can't. Um,

>> all right. So, you you are uh someone that risk terrifies you, doesn't it?

Well, not so much at my age. No, I mean I I really I think I have enough for,

you know, to take care of myself. Um,

>> yeah. Okay.

>> Without >> Well, I mean, if I put Okay, I'm 65, so

I'm a little bit younger than you, but not much. And if I put uh $250,000

in a high yield savings account or CDs and I make 3% on it and instead I could have put it in a mutual fund and made 13%.

That means I missed out on $25,000 a year worth of income, which is what you've done with the CDs and what you're getting ready to do with these bonds. So you need to decide if you are willing to put more money in mutual funds or not. And I would sit down with a smart resttor pro at ramseysolutions.com and start to learn about the market and how the market's performing and what's going on and get comfortable with it. Um, I personally,

you know, would take the 250,000 that's in CDs and I would put it in mutual funds and I'd put this 200,000 in mutual funds. But I want you to get comfortable with it before you go do that. But no, I'm not dumbing it down to m to municipal bonds. And no, I'm not going to tell you I would do that because I wouldn't do that. That would be a lie.

[Music]

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[Music]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. There's new trainings every week this month. They're all hosted by one of the Ramsay personalities, either Jade or George or Rachel. Jade, when's your next one? >> Oh, that is TBD.

>> Ah, okay, >> Dave. but it will be there when they need it. >> All right, we're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find thousands of dollars, usually up around $10,000 of margin using every dollar so you get out of debt, start building wealth, and you get to ask questions during the live Q&A. So, sign up for

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Did I mention it's free? Tam is in North

Carolina. Hi, Tam. How are you?

Hello. Thank you very much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can I help?

>> I'm getting ready to go back to work and I would like to know how do I save money when I go back when my husband does not want to save. So quick backstory we've done to Dave Ramsey. We came out of debt and in 2021 he says he no longer wants

to do that and he wants to live for the

day. And since then, we are in this re

cycle of constantly being credit card debt of 20 to $30,000.

I'm current stay-at-home mom, but I'm

going to go back to work. And I told my husband, well, when I go back to work, I want us to save for a future. So, I just want to know how do I do that?

>> You go get marriage counseling.

>> Yeah. What sparked it? What sparked him to about face?

Something caused that

>> I don't know because we um before we got

married he was $100,000 in debt. We dated. I told him I can't be in debt. I introduced him to the X Randy. We got out of debt. Then he put us back into debt for a car and then we got out of debt for that. >> Yeah. I can't I can't help you, honey.

There's nothing we can tell you that's going to work.

Nothing will work until you guys fix your marriage.

You can't make enough at your new job to offset his stupidity and immaturity.

You're you're going to retire. You're going to retire broke. Get ready to enjoy dog food.

Alpo Alpo is your choice for dinner.

>> That's why I was thinking when I went back to work. >> You can't out earn his craziness.

Gotcha. >> You can't make enough to do it. So you you don't have a savings vehicle issue.

You have a broken marriage issue.

>> Gotcha. >> Yeah. You guys have got to work on that.

And if you if you don't if you ignore that and and you think I I'll just go get a job and save my money, he's going to go in debt further than any amount you can possibly save because there's no off button for this guy the way he's operating right now. >> Yeah. And you guys were never, it sounds like you were never aligned when you paid off the first 100,000. It sounds like his motivation was, I got this girl, I'm going to impress her.

We've just gotten married, right? What even though your why may have been something different and it may have seemed as though you were aligned, but clear you clearly you were not.

And it can't be about today. It has to be about where you see yourselves in x amount of years. >> Yeah. And honestly, I mean, I'm not being mean or anything, but his behavior pattern is one of someone who's going to be broke. >> Uhuh. >> When people say, "Thank God it's Friday.

Oh god, it's Monday." And that's their whole planning vision >> is make it to make it to the weekend like they're freaking Huey Lewis or something or whatever. Whoever sang that song >> working for the weekend. Yeah. Is that Mike and the boys? I don't know. Okay.

>> I've done this before, hadn't I? >> Yeah. >> I get I always get criticized my lack of music knowledge. >> I knew what you were talking about. >> Yeah. Anyway, you're going to be broke if you if your whole time planning horizon is trying to get to the weekend

so I can smoke and drink and I just that's all I want to do. I just want to live in the moment. That that means you're four years old emotionally.

>> Yeah. >> And uh you're not going to ever build wealth and you're not going to build a quality successful anything because no one does anything of high quality in 5 days.

So you have to have a longer planning window for that, a bigger vision for your life, uh for your money, for your

health, for I mean this is that's the same thing that leads to extreme obesity. >> Mhm. >> Because there's why not why wouldn't I eat everything in sight?

>> Because I'm I'm living for the moment and in the moment that donut tastes good and in the moment I'm going to have six desserts and four bottles of wine. I mean and then wonder why I'm 600 lb.

It's the same thing. It's the same thing. I mean there's just no off button when you're that im impulsive and immature and there all the data points tell us it's a very sad person a lot of anxiety there's a lot of depression around that >> because there's no vision >> and you know the Bible talks about it says where there is no vision >> the people perish >> now think about that perish what's that mean roadkill baby perish die don't win

>> that that's what that means and so you know in any area of your life for your marriage, your kids. I mean, think about if you taught your kids that way. I, you know, I I, you know, I'm going to live I'm going to do the easy thing with the kids. >> Well, what you raise is animals.

>> Yeah. >> That will drive you bananas because they have no discipline because they have no discipline. >> Yeah. >> And so, but but that's all thinking in the moment that what's easy right now?

>> I want the easy button. I want the easy button. You got to think about what you're planting because whatever you plant later on, that's what you're going to reap the harvest of. >> That's so sad. It's an awful way to live. And it's such a it's it's such an indication of a lack of maturity, lack of hope. And so that's the stuff you got to work on, Tam. It's not um it it's you

know, there's no amount of I mean, if you go make $200,000 a year and you save all of it, he'll he'll spend 300.

>> Mhm. >> Because he knows his wife's over there stacking cash. So, he's going to be really he's going to have Hey, I need two boats, you know? I mean, really. So,

this this is Austin is in Oregon, if I

push the right button. Anyway, Austin, there you are, is in Oregon. Hey, Austin, how are you?

>> I'm doing wonderful, Dave. How are you guys doing today? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> So, my wife and I, we're uh three months

married right now. >> Congratulations. >> And one Thank you. Yes. And uh one of

the things that we decided to do when we first got married was to do uh your guys' baby step program. So we just finished step one. We got $1,000 set aside right now and we're about to just attack baby step two. Uh we have about $10,000 in debt and annually we bring in

uh household income of around 95,000.

>> Oh, great. Um, so we want to get this we want to get

that debt free as fast as possible.

>> Agreed. >> So I'm I'm thinking of picking up a second job doing a a few hours um after

my normal job every day uh just to get that extra income just to throw out all that debt.

>> Um my wife, she's 100% bored on this and

everything. She's thinking about picking up some shifts at her local fire department. We both volunteer down there. And one of the things that she brought up, and I didn't necessarily have an answer for, but I I 100% agree with her, is

>> she wants to make sure that we still have time for us during this entire um

step. >> She'll budget it.

>> Yeah, but it's 10,000. It's not going to last long enough to matter.

>> You be you ought to be done in a couple months. >> Yeah, that's my hot take.

If you had said, uh, we have 70,000.

Yeah. Then I would say, okay, yeah, this is months and months, uh, ahead of you of, yeah, burning the candle at both ends. But for 10,000, you're going to be done in two months, 3 months, >> right, >> with doing all the things you said.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You can hold your breath for two months.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, really, it's not it's not like we're doing two years here or something.

>> So, but the other thing is this. The other thing is this. Anytime you're doing anything, you're out of balance.

Okay? If you have a brand new baby in the house later, you're gonna be out of balance because this kid is a demanding little piece of flesh >> when they're brand new. Okay? They want your attention all the time.

They are peeing or pooping or crying cuz they're hungry all the time. And so you're you're out of balance. You you're probably not doing some other stuff like you should cuz you're taking care of this baby right now. You're getting out of debt.

You're out of balance for a short period of time. Jay just ran a half marathon. You're out of balance for a short period of time cuz you're training in the mornings rather than doing something else. So, you're always out of balance.

So, just choose you're out of balance.

look at human beings in the eyes.

>> That's right. >> And then all of a sudden, oh well, we did spend time together. Who knew?

>> That's right. >> Netflix is not time together.

Okay. Scrolling, doom scrolling is not time together.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Thank you very much for all the help.

Mike's in Dallas. Hey, Mike. How are you? >> I'm doing well, Dave. Blessed. How about yourself? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Hey, uh just had a couple quick questions for you. Um me and my fiance,

we're getting married here. Um and we've combined finances.

Um we've got about $177,000

in debt and we net um before taxes about

$200,000 a year.

>> Good for you. What do you all do for a living? Um, so I work in construction and she's

a uh program manager for a um for a

wireless company. >> Excellent. So what's the 177 in debt?

>> Um we've got student loans about uh

$75,000 on her end, 20,000 on my end. Um

we've got about $9,000 in credit card

debt and then we the rest is two car payments that we've got. Um,

obviously the the credit card debt is kind of the biggest. >> You got two $30,000 cars.

>> Yes, sir. >> Jeez. >> Wow. >> All right. And uh so when are you getting married?

>> Um Friday. >> Oh, wow. >> Okay. Wow. >> Okay. Here it comes. >> This must really be weighing on you for you to call two days before a wedding.

>> Wow. So, how can we help?

Um, I'm just kind of wanted to see what y'all think, um, would be best to kind

of put our money towards paying down first. Um, >> we we've got about $5,000 in savings.

Um, we've got 401ks and stock options as

well. >> U, so, >> um, I think we kind of want to hold on to just the stock option side of things.

We don't >> stock options >> in the stocks about $100,000.

>> Wow. Okay.

>> Is that in a retirement plan? It's not, is it? >> No, sir. It's not in a retirement plan. >> It's not restricted at all.

>> No, sir. Listen, >> if you cash that out, you got 100K.

>> Yes, sir. >> Who's is that?

>> Would have to pay taxes on the back end.

About 20 about 20K that's mine and 80K

is hers. >> Yeah. So we would the way we teach is through a series of baby steps. Are you familiar with it at all?

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. So then you know the first part of this is you go down to $1,000 and

anything above that goes towards the debt. >> That's not retirement. >> That's not retirement. And in your case >> that's 100 grand. >> Yeah. That's a lot. >> I'm using that to clear this debt up. I mean >> because otherwise you effectively are borrowing on student loans to buy stock options. >> Exactly. >> Right. and I'm not doing that.

>> Now, I asked about the money because uh

we didn't go into how aligned you guys are on this. Uh obviously, you've started combining finances, but this whole idea of the baby steps and really what it takes to walk this plan to be successful with it. When you go back to your fiance, who will be your wife, you know, come Monday and say, "Here's what I want to do." How is she going to react to that? And do we need to talk about that? No, she uh she supports

um you know, we're we we try to follow the the Bible as best we can and she knows that uh I'm wrapping my head around this, trying to get us on a on a right path towards starting a family and buying a home. >> Cool. Um, and so she's >> so Mike, what I what I figured out many many years ago and is the basis for our teaching is the shortest distance between where you are now and wealth is

to be completely debtree because your most powerful wealth buildinging tool is your income. And so do anything that I

can use to clear that up, I'm going to use to clear that up because then I got $200,000 to work with to build wealth with. So temporarily, we're going to put 401ks on hold. We're going to liquidate anything that's not retirement, including those stock options, including the five four of the five grand. Now, this is after you get back from the honeymoon. Okay? We're not doing it between now and Friday. Okay?

But when you get back from the honeymoon and and so basically, I've got 100,000 now. I got 77,000 in debt.

>> I'd be looking at these two cars. >> And I'm going to be listing the debts smallest to largest. and that's the first 105,000 I'm going to pay off is the first 105,000 of smallest debts. So,

credit cards, um the student loans are probably broken up into several loans, are they not? >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. So, I'm going to get them out as individual loans and I'm going to list every debt, smallest to largest balance regardless of interest rate.

>> And I'm going to not take that 104,000 and go as fast through there as I can.

And then wherever that lands me, gonna cut up the credit cards. And then we're gonna probably the cars are going to be the last two things you pay. Actually, >> probably where you're going to end up.

>> Um, and then you're going to just attack those. You only got $77,000 in debt. You got two $200,000 to work on. If you're both completely focused on that, you could be debtree in a year. >> Mhm. >> And then you don't have any payments.

And now we uh build the emergency fund

up to where it should be. 3 to six months of expenses. That's baby step three. And then we restart the 401ks and

now we start building wealth. And um you're going to be in a really strong position to do that. But the what happens is that people keep this stuff.

They keep tinkering around. They keep trying to hack find kind of some kind of shortcut or some kind of hack like I'm going to keep the stock options >> because I like those. I heard you say it. Yeah. >> And uh and I'm just going to work on it over here. No, that's a hack. You're trying to find a shortcut. And and listen, the stock options are not as valuable as you being free mathematically.

>> No, in no way does the math work on that because people look over here and they say in his case 100,000 I've got 100,000. I'm like, you don't have 100,000. If you owe someone 177,000,

you're still 77,000 in debt. That's what math says.

>> Yeah. The math ain't math. Math ain't math. So there you go.

That's what you say. So yeah, that's exactly right. So that's how I'm going to do it. And what we're going to do is give you guys a wedding gift, Financial Peace University and Every Dollar, the full Every Dollar experience, the paid version.

If you screw around with this stuff, you're going to be 10 years, and you're going to look about like you look now.

>> And that's what most people do. All the money comes in, all the money goes out, and they're just a rat in a wheel. They just run, run, run, run with no traction because they don't execute on a detailed, proven process. And that's what we're going to beg you to do.

>> So, you hang on and we'll have Kelly pick up and we'll give you our wedding gift. Congratulations on your wedding Friday. That's pretty cool. >> I'm with you. Uh, >> who calls two days before, three days before the Not Not me. He's feeling the way. >> He's not thinking about anything like this. >> No, not at all. on the weight.

>> Yeah. >> Well, he's just a planner extraordinaire. I mean, that may be what he may be the super nerd, and that's going to work to his benefit, too. >> Well, he has to promise us not to mention this at all >> until you get back from the honeymoon.

Do not bring any of this up.

>> And really, don't even reveal that you were thinking about this two days before the wedding. >> Don't tell that until maybe 10 years later. Don't just don't reveal that.

That's not going to go well for you.

>> Yeah. So, um, >> the names have been changed in this conversation to protect the innocent. >> Yeah, his name's not really Mike. His name is really Joe and he's not really in Dallas. He's really in Minneapolis.

So, anyway, but uh, okay. So, I hope

you never know around here. Uh

there is something unbelievable folks about the power of focus.

When you can choose

extreme focus,

meaning you're not doing anything else, you're only doing one thing.

When you choose that in a culture that has the attention span of a gnat

that is so distracted everybody is looking at their phone 2600 times a day, they're thinking about 47,000 things at one time and they're not good at any of them. When you choose a singular focus,

you set yourself apart from the general population. >> And and we call those people successful people. >> That's right. That's right. Listen, even

Michael Jordan could only do basketball.

We saw what happened when he tried to do baseball. >> It was kind of ugly. And >> yeah, >> one of the one of the greatest athletes to ever walk the planet. He really wasn't that bad, but it didn't transfer.

>> No, >> it didn't transfer. He he um Yeah, it

was >> got focus in one area.

>> Only thing he did is try and you got to give him that. But yeah,

focus. There's a power to focus.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

Heat. Heat.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Number one best-selling author Shawn is with us in Tennessee. Hey Sean, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. Dave, how are y'all? >> Just the same, sir. How can we help?

So, recently just graduated from college, bought a house, and started running the race like everyone else, and figured out that's not quite going too well. I've racked up about a $125,000

in debt. That's between student loans, a

car loan, and consumer debt. And that's

not feeling great, but it feels manageable. The only problem is now my

wife is going through school as well. So

when she gets out, she'll have student loans.

>> So you're actively taking them.

>> You're actively taking the student loans out now today?

>> Well, yes, she is took out her first one

just this month. >> And how much further does she have to go?

>> Uh she'll have uh four more years. Okay.

So, >> so you you you went to she went to school. You're in debt. You can't breathe. And so your plan is honey, you need to go back to school and let's go further in debt to make sure we fail.

Why is this a plan?

>> Well, it wasn't the plan until just recently. >> It's not a plan. It sucks. She should not be in school. You don't have any money. >> You got to stop it.

>> I'm currently the only one with the the income. And this was before I found y'all. And the whole >> No, I mean, you don't have to find us to go, I can't breathe. Let's go deeper in debt.

That was kind of what y'all's plan was.

It doesn't even make sense, man.

>> Yeah. What's she going to school for? What's she trying to become?

>> So, she's going to school to become a pharmacist. Uh, I just recently graduated from pharmacy school. Uh, currently right now at a pretty good job. It's 125,000 a year.

>> Okay. That's pretty typical. >> That's good. So, here here's my suggestion. Hear me out because this is a big turn from what you're doing. My suggestion would be you guys are together. You're married. You've you've both just finished school. You realize that your student loans were a mistake.

Couldn't you work for a while? Could she delay just a little bit while you guys start to clean this up? Is there something else she can do that's adjacent while you guys clean up this mess and start saving for her to go little by little? because we don't want to repeat the same mistake twice.

Right. >> Right. Right.

>> I don't have a plan that helps you if she continues in school and is racking up debt. There's not a plan that helps that.

So, it just doesn't it's not logical to me. I don't mind her being in school. I don't mind her being having the goal of being a pharmacist. That's all fine, but let's just pay for it.

And right now you can't pay for it because you're so far in debt you can't breathe because you bought a bunch of crap you can't afford and now you're buying even more crap you can't afford her education. So you guys have really got to talk about this and change this direction. I don't think you're going to but you're you're going to crash. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> You're going to crash. You're going to hit the wall, man. And it's going to be bad.

>> Well, that's it's it's it really is insanity. You did a thing. It caused you to feel crazy and you're doing it again thinking >> doing more of it. Let's do more.

>> It didn't work. So, let's double down on didn't work. >> Yeah. It's not No, no, no, no, no, Sean.

And And so, not for your sake, man. I want you guys to be free and I want you to be able to live your dreams and all you're doing is creating a nightmare that you may never get out of.

>> I don't know how long it's going to take you guys to clean this up. >> Yeah. >> So, no, I would not do that. Um, I would stop school. I would, if I'm her, I'm gonna get a job making as much as I can make. You take on as much as you can make. You guys live on beans and rice, rice and beans, sell the stupid car, and let's tear into this debt and get it cleared up in a couple of years, and let's try to knock this out.

>> Um, and then start saving for her to go to school and pay cash for it.

>> Um, and then your income will go way on up and you will have no debt and you're in a position to build wealth. But, and all all along the way have had a lot more peace. >> Yeah. And by the way, now is not the time to buy a house and all those other things that people do when they >> too late >> enter the world, you know.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You jump you jumped in the middle of a rat race and acted like a rat. And that's not Man, it's going it's it's a problem.

>> So may even need to sell the house. I don't know. You guys got >> Did they already get one? >> Yeah. He said he already bought a house. Bought a house, bought a car, and and that already did all that. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Jen is in Mississippi. Hi, Jen. How are you? Hi Dave. I'm great. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Great. Thank you for taking my call. I

I'm married. I'm 60. We're in our forever home. It's a two-bedroom.

And started the debt snowball in

January. Um

with 243 uh 243,000 in debt >> on step two.

Uh it was a lot of credit cards and uh

different uh loans and a car and a boat.

>> Is any of that the house?

>> No, I have it down now to >> So what do you owe on your boat?

>> The boat I owe 68,000?

>> Yes. >> Sell it.

>> Okay. Well, I have a there's been like a curveball in our life since we started all this. Um I have the debt down to 150

right now.

>> January, >> but you owe 68,000 on a boat, >> right? >> Sell it.

>> Okay. So, >> you live in a two-bedroom house and you have a $70,000 boat. Well, it's it's

not a small two-bedroom, but anyway, my

we recently last year got custo temporary custody of our three grandchildren, and

it's turning into permanent and we really need to build onto this house to get them three bed to get some bedrooms

and I don't know how

to manage paying off the debt and getting this. >> What is your home worth? >> On 250.

>> Okay. >> I owe a 100 on it.

>> Okay. Um I would not build on to it. I

would sell it and buy a home that has bedrooms.

>> Okay. >> It's not a good plan in your situation.

You have so many balls in the air, you're going to drop one. Um Wow. What

in the world happened, kid? That you end up with these babies?

>> Well, there was a tra there was a death.

Um >> the the dad died in a in a motorcycle wreck and then they became homeless and living with four different people in in a year >> and they had no bed. They had no structure. She the oldest one was 10 um

eight. She was failing she failed second grade and was going to fail it again. So we took them >> got got temporary custody and it's turning in to be full-time. So, and >> I'm sorry. You just gave your life away for those kiddos and you should cuz you love them and you want to take care of them. You're >> Well, they didn't ask for any of this.

>> I know you're a neat lady. I appreciate you. Sell the boat and sell the house and go get a house that holds these kids. We're going to focus on the kids,

not on your dreams that you used to have.

You have new We have a new dream now.

It's raising these kids and everything revolves around that. you took that on and that's um and so I'm gonna I'm I

would not do an extensive remodel and wait on that for them to have a bedroom.

I'd simply put a sign in the yard, put a sign on the boat, >> and and then let's go get a house that holds that's got four bedrooms. Maybe a different neighborhood, maybe further out of town. I don't know. But um looking for a deal and let's try to get, you know, let's focus in on them on those babies and let's see if we can get them get them back on track. Bless their hearts. Thank you for doing that.

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[Music]

Kyle's in Wisconsin. Hey Kyle, how are you?

>> I'm doing great. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

Um, so my question is, uh, currently on

baby step four, five, and six. Um, married, no kids yet, but that is, uh,

coming up hopefully soon. Um, my wife and I are currently doing 15% investing.

Um, we're debating on getting your um,

thoughts, I guess, on reducing that investing to the company match, which would free up more in our monthly budget to do on the mortgage because I currently drive 40 minutes each way to work. And my thought is if I didn't have the mortgage, I could afford to take a lesser paying job that's closer to home.

>> Why don't you take a greater paying job that's closer to home now?

Um, I've looked in the area, but we currently live in a smaller farm town and I currently work in a slightly bigger city. Um, I just haven't seen any

>> um, uh, better income.

Um, wife and I combined for two.

>> What do you make? You're the one making the drive.

>> Oh, sure. Um, I currently make about about 120 130,000 a year. So, can I ask

uh I'm going to try to come at this another way. So, you're saying the difference between the match and you going full 15%. How much is that monthly for you? What's the number amount?

>> Roughly 1,500 would be the less amount

of investing and the extra to put on mortgage. My voice is shaking. I'm pretty nervous. >> And how much how much time because that's what's in question. How much time does that $1,500 save you in paying off your mortgage? It's $18,000 a year.

What's the balance on the mortgage?

>> Uh, we currently owe 460.

>> Okay. >> So, this is a long this is a long-term play.

>> Yeah. >> So, my question would not would not be about backing down your 15% because

that's so important in the grand scheme of things. That's a lot of time that you'd be losing out on compound interest. My what I'd be solving for is what can my wife and I do combined that will find us $1,500 a month. Is it a side hustle? Is it something she can do?

Is it something that we change about our lifestyle? Are there cuts in the Do you see what I'm saying? Is there a way that we can get a lot closer to that 1500 without sacrificing something that's very very important?

>> Cuz I wouldn't want you to sacrifice something so important. Do you see what I'm saying? >> I I do. I do. Um, I I have one other bit of info, and it I don't want it to come off as I'm not trying to brag or anything like that, but we do currently have about 150,000 invested total. Um,

and we're both um in our 20s. So,

>> in in the 401k,

>> correct? Yes. >> Okay. All right.

>> So, my thought is we live pretty frugally um based on calculating

different things. Even if I did nothing, that's still going to grow to obviously a very nice nest egg. Obviously more than >> you're in your 20s and you commute 40 minutes, >> correct?

>> That would be called normal.

>> I was going to say, >> sure, >> most people do.

>> Okay. >> Lots of people commute an hour plus

to go to their job.

>> Sure.

I'm not sure we're solving for the right thing.

Um, no, I would not stop putting 15%

away. And um, uh, do you not like your

job?

>> No. No, I do. It's just the the drive can just I I get it's not super long.

It's just winter time at everything.

It's just it can be long hours. Um, just

different things. So, I just want to see anything I can do to knock the mortgage out, but then also >> Yeah. But no, I mean, you're solving for in your 20s, you want to drive 10 minutes, and so you're willing to take a $60,000 pay cut to do that once you get

the house paid off. Even if the house was paid off, I don't think this is a wise thing to solve for.

>> Okay? >> The trade-off is not worth it. Now what I might do I mean if that is that great a concern to you move closer to your

work >> and let's solve let's solve the thing a different way. >> But this idea that I'm going to plan my life so that in my 20s I can make half what I used to make so that I don't have to have a commute. That's a bad trade man. That's a bad trade.

You need to trade something else. >> Yeah. >> There's something else needs to move in in these variables. There's a handful of variables here.

Let's turn a different knob. >> That's what I'm saying. The last knob to turn is your future, which is your retirement. >> Yeah, I'm going to put 15% away.

I may move or I may get peace with the 40-minute commute.

and there's like integrity problems at the other place or I hate the place or ethics issues or something like that.

But none of that is up here. This is just I don't like driving 40 minutes.

>> Um >> I'd just be trying to whittle down that 1500. Can I get it to 700? Can I find 700 somewhere? I'd be looking at that number. >> But even then, the purpose of it is so he can quit his job. >> Yeah, you're right. >> And we're solving that's what we're solving. That's the solutioning for all the way through. And that's I just don't want to participate in that part of it either. >> I hear you. >> So I think I think I'm going to solve this a different way. Um, and and I'm

going to keep putting 15% away to your point. Uh, but even if you made more on these side hustles and you got the house paid off, then you quit your job over a 40-minute commute. I just I still can't get there. I can't go there with you.

>> Austin is in Missouri. Hey, Austin.

What's up?

>> Hey guys, appreciate you speaking into my situation. >> Sure. >> I have a I have a question about um a

blessing I've got in my life. I'm a pastor and excuse me, my my church just

updated its uh PTO policy. So, they bought us out of our PTO and we can choose to take that in a taxed check or um take it and have it put directly

into our annuity and we we don't have

any debt.

>> I'm sorry. You are in debt?

>> We are not in debt. >> Not in debt. Okay. >> No, sir. other than our home. We own a home. We owe about $40,000 on it. I think we could sell it between 2 and 250. >> We would like to buy another home. We don't have one that we're actively working on buying, but we would like to.

>> How big's a check? >> And I'm just $8,600.

>> Okay, let's pay the house down.

>> Mhm. You only have 40,000 to go. Wow.

>> Yeah. Now you only got 30,000 to go.

That's awesome. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I didn't ask. Do you have three to six months of expenses?

>> Yeah. Yeah, we've we've got about $25,000 in savings.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Sorry, I should have said that. >> No, that's okay.

Yes, ma'am. Even with the tax that that might come on that, you'd say just put it toward the house. >> Oh, yeah. >> Currently got Okay.

>> Definitely. That's where That's where you are in the baby steps. All lump sums that unless you need it for something around the house. That's the other thing.

We're in baby steps four, five, and six. So, we're being intentional, not intense. And intentional might mean you need to upgrade a car. There might be a couch with a spring sticking through it.

You need a new couch. I don't know. You may need it for some of that, too. But if you've got it as free and clear and you don't have other needs for it before I would put it into the annuity, I' into your retirement, I'd put it on the house.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

You're heading in the right way. Way to go, man. That is so awesome. That's very, very good.

So Jade, um I think it's good occasionally to recap on a couple of these things. Um when we laid out the baby steps and came

up with that process and started teaching people to follow that, we ran

uh that was 25 plus years ago. >> Uhhuh. And we ran a whole bunch of

scenarios down and said, "Okay, under what are the numbers that allow people to get their home paid off, to invest

for their kids' college, uh, and still be putting something away for retirement, >> right? >> Um, and uh, we ran the scenario, you

know, at the time is a long time ago, like a single mom making 23,000 or a doctor making 230,000. Now the numbers would be different than that, but you still run the numbers out.

>> Uh the expenses are different than they were then, too. >> But you want it to work for anyone.

>> Exactly. And oddly enough, it it wasn't a biblical exercise. It was just a math exercise.

But oddly enough, that 15% in Baby Step 4 has turned out to be the right number.

It turned out because we ran like 12, we ran 17, we ran 10, we ran 20. And then

the house didn't get reduced if too much was going in. Sure. >> Or if 10%, it wasn't enough. It wasn't building up fast enough. And so guys, these numbers work.

>> So you're not going to catch us adjusting them very often cuz they've proven out over decades >> and work for everyone.

>> All kinds of different scenarios.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Daniel's in Ohio. Hi, Daniel. How are you? >> I'm doing good. Uh how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

So last month it kind of kicked for me and uh I just got really sick and tired being sick and tired. >> Cool. >> Um I've been like this before and uh

that kind of makes my wife question if I'm serious or not. But last time I had a uh financial adviser uh he actually

idolized you and uh just everything that you did and he was very close to being a multi-millionaire before he eventually passed away right after he was helping us with our budget. So, um, I got real

disheartened and stopped budgeting. I just stopped everything and just >> Why did that not inspire you instead of dishearten you? >> I I know. I know. And that's that's kind

of what I'm feeling now. I'm I'm feeling more inspired to do this and and I mean,

how ashamed he would have been just it

just scares me. And

um so I'm I'm starting my baby steps.

Uh, I know I need to save my thousand and uh, I don't think I'll have an issue with that. Um, my issue is I went to one

of those stupid uh, buy here, pay here car lots where they they are the bank, so they finance you through themselves.

>> And I ended up paying close to $34,000

for a Dodge Caravan. Um, it was 199, but

after interest it was close to $34,000.

>> Oh boy. Um, I have been paying $175 a

week for this van for the past two and a half years. And uh, yeah, I've had

nothing but issues with it. Um, so next

month I'm getting a check, uh, from a job uh, for $2,500.

Um, and I was going to use that to buy a

family vehicle with no payments and give

the van back on a voluntary repossession. No, >> I just listened to an episode today that said you would never do that.

>> Nope, I would not. >> So, I thought I would call.

>> Okay. >> So, um the 34,000 is not the balance.

>> No, >> 34,000 is the total of payments,

>> including all interest through the end of the loan.

>> And so, that's not your that's not your payoff balance. So, what you need to get from them is what the actual payoff is.

If you walked in there with a check today, >> uh, it would be right around 14,000.

>> Oh, good. >> Oh, that's a way better.

>> And what's the van worth?

>> Uh, it's probably worth about $2,000.

>> Who said?

>> Uh, the transmission is going out,

>> you said. >> Um, >> okay. >> Yeah, I said. >> Okay. So, the transmission's struggling,

but and the vans, >> but but you paid originally 20,000 and now you think it's worth two two years later. That's a bit of drama. I don't believe you. >> It It wasn't in the best condition when I got it. >> I know. But you didn't pay >> $20,000.

You're not that dumb. For a van that was worth eight,

and you didn't. And so this van's not worth two now. It's probably worth seven or eight.

>> Okay, you need you need to figure out what the van's really worth and get the drama out >> because if you turn this into them, they're going to sell it for two and they're going to come after you for 12 plus repo fees.

>> You lose control of the sale price of the van when you do a voluntary or a regular repo and they're going to sell it at below wholesale because it's what they do at those lots. This is the scam they run.

So they they want you to do this. So no, I I'm going to find out what the van's really worth and I'm going to get it sold and I'm going to cover the difference with a loan at the credit union or wherever. Even on a credit card, if you borrow $45,000 and you get out of a $14,000 loan and a crappy van and you pay take $2,500 bucks and go get you a little car, I I'm I'm with you on your general direction that this thing's got to go. Um but but

a voluntary repo is not a good plan.

>> Okay? >> I mean, you're going to end up owing $6 or $8,000 more by doing this.

>> That's that's why it's not a good plan. That's you understand. They're going to sell it for way cheaper than you would sell it for. So, the hole that you're in is going to be a lot larger. And then they're going to come after you for that amount of money.

>> Yes. >> You're going to get sued for that amount of money if you don't pay it to them.

And they will. this group will they'll come after you.

>> It's what they do. It's their modus operandi. >> What's your what's your hesitation?

>> Uh I I worry like even if I sold the van

uh I worry about um not being able to

get a loan to cover it. My credit is at like a 574.

>> Yeah, that may be difficult.

And um you know, you might go back down and talk to them and say, "Is there a situation where you guys would buy this back and let me sign a note with you for

the difference and just pay them?"

I'd rather you owe them5 or $6,000

than owe then have it voluntarily repoed.

>> Right. >> Okay. >> So, you talk to them. I'd talk to your credit union. I'd take out a credit card. any of that cuz any of that's you're you're all we're at the end of the day what we're doing is reducing your debt. So any of that's we're just changing the structure of the debt and reducing it. And that's what you've got to do, man. And you can't just you can't

sign up for something that's horrible, stick your foot in a bear trap, and then go, "Oh, the best way to get out of the bear trap is chew my foot off." No, you can't do that. You got to open the thing, heal. You got to fix it. You know, you got to you're going to have to go through some more pain to fix the the bad decision that you made when you impulsively did this.

And you knew better when you were doing it the whole time. >> The whole time. >> Yeah. So, this is this is the price you pay for that.

And that's okay. We've all done stupid stuff, but just, you know, don't don't compound it and make it worse.

The least damage to your foot after you stuck it in a bear trap. >> That's right. And so, >> so guys, um, when you have a car loan of

any kind, doesn't matter whether it's pay now, pay here, buy here, whatever, >> the note, >> tote the note people, or whether it's freaking Lexus motor credit and Ford Motor Credit and Chrysler credit and anybody like that. It doesn't matter.

This is not a Hertz rent a car that you can just drop the thing off, >> right? >> And say, I don't want it anymore.

They're going to assess that. They're going to run it through a repo auction.

And I've bought cars at repo auctions and they sell below wholesale.

>> Mhm. >> And sometimes they run them through Mannheim, they run them through the big auctions, the auto auctions. And they, you know, they say this is a repo >> and they, you know, and so you're expecting some dings. You're expecting some problems with it. If you're the buyer, and I'm going to discount it below wholesale >> so that I'm getting a deal if I'm the buyer. And so it's going to bring the

least possible price in that scenario

and then they're going to sue you for the difference and you've got a repo on your credit. >> Yeah. Meanwhile, you could have sold it >> and and you know, doubled or tripled

>> and cut cut the problem down. So you guys I I don't like my car anymore, so I'm going to just drop it off at the dealer. Y'all can't do that. Okay?

You're killing yourself. It's not a hurts rent a car.

[Music]

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[Music]

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>> Today's question comes from Savannah in Alabama. She says, "My partner and I are engaged and living together. I have about 200,000 in student loan debt and he has 125,000 left on his mortgage. We

have separate finances and he's supportive of me getting out of debt.

The problem is that I have a hard time watching him splurge on hobbies and travel which he can easily afford while I can't. I agree that when we get married all this changes and we have already talked about being frugal together. Is it fair to ask him to save

now for when we get married? And if not,

how do I manage this disconnect?

>> He should want to save cuz he's going to have to face the piper later.

>> Yeah. And >> and it's going to cause him to kick the can down the road on the marriage date.

>> Well, that's my thing. It doesn't sound like there's much of a date. She doesn't mention a date. And so I wonder about

that. >> Okay. We're already acting like we're married in every sense of the word.

We're living together. >> Uhhuh. go get married like this weekend.

>> Yeah, >> that solves it.

Which is what you should have done in the first place, actually.

>> Yeah. The whole thing is weird. They're living together. It's his mortgage. It's her debt. Um, yeah, there's a lot of problems here. >> You're trying to do everything in the wrong order and in the wrong way. So, it solves it all. Just go get married this weekend. >> And then both of you attack.

>> You know, that shuts down the whole discussion. If you were living separately and he was making a lot of money and had no debt except his mortgage >> and the same question came up, >> I would expect him to want to if he

called and asked us what to do, we would tell him >> to save money like crazy so that as soon as he comes home with the honeymoon, he makes a big old lump someum hit on that

thing. Right. >> Yeah. And uh that would be the more normal way to I don't know if normal is the right word, but it would be the more the if everything was in the proper order, that's the way it would go. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Instead, we've gotten things out of order here. >> He doesn't think that you guys are getting married anytime soon.

>> And nor does he have an incentive to >> No, he doesn't. So, of course, he's supportive of you paying off your debt.

That doesn't that's no skin off his back. >> Yeah. And there's no reason to get married. He's He's got everything he needs. M >> there you have it. >> Hello. All right. I'm just saying. All right. Maya is in Colorado Springs. Hey,

Maya. What's up?

>> Hey. How are y'all? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Hey, so I've got a a debt snowball question. So, I'm getting ready to start baby step two and I've got all my debts listed out smallest to largest. But I was evicted in January and I still owe that apartment complex about $14,000.

>> Wow. Were you >> probably number six on my list? Uh I lost my job due to a medical complication. I'm reemployed now and um was able to get another rental place with a larger deposit. >> Great. Um what do you make my Yeah. Um I make about 42,000 a year.

>> All right. Good. All right. So you got a huge debt there, huh?

>> Oh, that's just a portion of it. I'm about 53 in total.

>> Okay. Um, but my my question is, um, my

ex-boyfriend, my boyfriend at the time was a co-licant on that apartment with me. >> Um, he lives in another state. He never lived in that apartment. He was just helping me out because my credit is so bad. >> Um, so I'm wondering if I should get that one paid off first so that he's not screwed when his lease is over or if I should still just follow the snowball and go smallest to largest.

>> Well, he's already screwed because he's got a judgment against him.

Yeah. >> Okay. So, I mean, when his lease is over, that's going to show up on his credit bureau, >> right? >> So, I mean, it'll either show it'll either show he's got a judgment had a judgment against him that's been paid off or he's just got a judgment because the lease he signed got evicted.

So, that's going to Yeah, he's got a pretty heavy >> damage to him already. Most of the damage has already been done is my point, >> right? So whether it's paid off or not is not is not really going to keep him from getting something over in another city. >> So you got 54,000 you said.

>> 53. Um let's see. Let me pull up my notes real quick.

>> Um I've got um some credit card debt. Um

>> how much? >> Some other small personal loans.

>> How much credit card? about about 16,000.

>> All right, that's that's 30 of the 53.

What's the rest of it? >> Personal loans. How much is that? >> I've got about 14,000 on a car that was

wrecked that I didn't have insurance on and then uh a little over 12,000 to the

um apartment complex. And then just some other small things like old Widers that

I haven't paid. >> Okay. >> Insurance I in debt on, stuff like that.

Okay. Um,

you are paying double and triple for a lot of things because you're paying it poorly.

There's a lot of things on this list that that are out of control things. A car that I wrecked, I didn't have insurance on. Other stuff I haven't gotten around to and it's piled up back there. >> So, there's a lot of different crisises represented in those things that you created by not taking care of business.

Yes. >> Like keeping car insurance in place.

>> That's like a priority >> because otherwise you end up with this mess on a car and you don't even have the car anymore.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. >> What kind of work do you do?

>> I'm a dog groomer. >> A dog groomer. Okay. And I'm just trying to understand how this all originated, how this kind of started spiraling out like Dave was saying. Um where that instability came from. Is it coming from dog grooming as a profession or is it coming from something else?

>> Uh, no. So, in November, um, I was

diagnosed with a a disease that prevents

me from driving and I'm a mobile dog groomer. Now, it's managed and medicated and I'm back to work, but that's kind of when all of that happened.

>> Okay. >> I wasn't able to pay the rent and the car insurance and everything just quickly piled up. >> The credit card debt is just for me being irresponsible. And you've cut them up since. >> All right. >> Oh, yeah.

>> Okay.

>> All right. So, okay. Yeah. No, I'm going to work the debt snowball straight up.

List your debts smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little ones and attack the little ones with a vengeance and work your way straight through as fast as you can. Um,

are you on a salary at 42?

No, I make around 800 a week depending

on, you know, tips and all that sort of stuff. >> Right. Okay. Are you able to work more than you're working?

>> Um, so the branch in Colorado Springs just opened about two weeks ago. I was able to pick up a third day and as it grows I'll be able to pick up more work um day.

>> Yeah, I currently work three days a week. >> What are you doing with the other four days?

Um, I Door Dash, take care of my kid in

my home. And >> didn't sound like it. Didn't sound like it to me. It sound like you're doing nothing.

>> Pretty much. Yeah.

>> And listen, you're broke. You got to be working, girl. >> Yeah. >> All the time.

>> Okay. >> How old is your baby?

>> She's three. >> And is who takes care of him when you're working?

>> My fiance.

Okay.

>> Okay. When are you getting married?

>> Uh, that is to be determined depending on how long it takes us to not be broke.

>> That's how No, that that's how fiance works. We have a date.

Otherwise, otherwise we have a promise that has not got a date.

>> Okay. >> And so, yeah, that's an issue. How long have y'all been engaged?

um November.

>> Being debtree is not required to get married in the state of Colorado.

>> This is true.

>> Okay. So, what does he make?

>> Um right now he's not working because he was in a motorcycle wreck.

>> Okay. >> Y'all are a hot mess.

>> How is he taking care of a baby?

>> I mean, a three-year-old.

>> Yeah. I mean, he can manage. He can work. >> I think he can work. I think you both

need to work more.

>> A lot more.

>> Yeah. >> Yep. >> That's why I asked the question before.

>> Less partying, more working.

Lots more working. Money comes from work. You need money.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Jade Waw Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

Andreas is with us in Austin, Texas. Hey Andreas, how are you?

>> Hey Dave, thank you. Thanks for uh taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um well, I need your help trying to figure out how to retire my wife. Uh we

have uh we had a baby a few months ago and it has now it's now time for her to go back into the office. And every time she leaves for the office, I can see it in her eyes. It's killing her to to go to the office. And uh uh I would love

nothing more than to work uh you know and just take I mean sorry I am working but uh you know take care of all the bills and do all that. The problem is she makes more money than I do and not by a small margin. Uh she's in software.

I'm in construction and so >> what do you make? >> I'm trying to figure out you know >> I'd make uh 5,000 take-home. What does

she make >> a month?

>> $7,200 a month. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> And >> can you live on $5,000 a month?

>> Uh, we have to figure it out. Uh, we got a mortgage, but no other pay. How much is your mortgage? Mortgage by >> $3,441.

>> You can't live in that. You can't live in that house if she's at home.

>> That's the big picture to this. That's the big key to this is you'd have to sell the house. You'd have to downsize and it'd have to be something to where the mortgage is no more than 25% of 5,000 take-home pay

>> 1,250

>> 1250 >> half the house. >> Um we we do have various investments. Uh

we have about 415,000

>> in one >> across uh uh we have about some of it is

retirement about 60 for each of us in 401ks. Um then there the rest of it is

in brokerage accounts and some company stocks. >> So >> which which totals what the non-retirement totals how much?

>> The so the uh 412 minus about 120.

So, let's call it 300 grand. Okay. So, what's your loan balance on the mortgage?

>> We have we owe 269. We have about

200,000 in equity.

>> So, if you paid off the mortgage

with your brokerage account. >> Mhm. >> You got no mortgage. Now, you got $5,000.

That's better than selling it. That's that's extra information we didn't have early in the conversation. >> That's a big piece of it. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> I I think you should probably do that anyway. You should do that anyway.

>> The money. So, is that Yeah.

>> What now? >> Does that make sense?

>> Uh, so I mean the having the the money in the uh you know invested is not that doesn't make more than because I think our interest rate on the house is 6% but the average return on the investment should be like seven or something for the year. Right. >> Sure. But you said you opened the call with saying you were looking for a way to to use your words, retire your wife, but she wants to be a stay-at-home mom.

And you were looking at how can I do that? >> And we were saying here here's the solution to what you're saying. Now, to Dave's point, we would have told you to do that regardless because it's non-retirement funds. It's stock and you still have the debt of your home laying around. So, we probably would have suggested that to you regardless of the fact >> no one has ever what no millionaire that we've ever interviewed Andreas has said the way I got rich was I borrowed money on my house and invested it in a brokerage account.

>> Zero zero millionaires say that,

>> right?

>> So, that that's that's mythology from Tik Tok.

Okay? And it just doesn't work because in the real world we have this thing called risk and babies. So if we paid

off your house, how much other debt do you have?

>> Uh nothing. We own our cars. We don't have anything else. No other no.

>> So without a house payment, sit down and do a budget with your wife tonight on the Every Dollar app and commit to

living on your income and not a dime

more.

And just to just to drive this solution home, I just wanted a to ask, did you have any suggestions of how you could do it?

>> Well, I mean, so here's here's another factor. Uh because she's in software, her next um she should be getting uh uh

her her trajectory, she should be making four 400,000 like pretty soon.

>> Okay. >> So, I'm just wondering if we can't move the you know, move this the assets that we currently have around. And of course, I'm going to do my best to get my my money up, too. But just if we can do something here just with with what we have uh to get to that point where she can step away from that job, you know, in the next five or five years or so.

>> So, you're saying, "Can we wait? I'm so confused. You You are so screwed up on

your goals. You need to decide what it is you want, honey. You called up and said, "My wife's eyes when she leaves a brand new baby she just has, I want to retire my wife." We just told you how to do that. Now you got to work in five more years. I'm confused.

>> Well, that's the the biggest question is, is this her saying to you, I want to stay at home, or is this something you've put in your brain that you want to like surprise her with?

>> She h she has expressed uh you know, not demanded, but expressed it would be nice to have that option. Sorry, I made clear. >> So, y'all got to sit down tonight and figure out what you want to do. >> Does she want to work and make 400k or does she want to be at home? >> Yeah, clearly. you need to pay off the house either way and um you you know

figure out if you can live on five grand, dude. And then you work your career and get your career up and someday she goes back to work. By then her software skills will be completely irrelevant. >> Mhm. >> And she gets to start completely over.

So um if she steps out, you don't get to step out of that world for 5 minutes, much less five years. And so that world's cutting edge, bleeding edge, changes every 10 minutes. And so um the

number of things that the people in this building that do software engineering are doing today that they did 5 years ago is zero.

>> That's a good >> nothing is the same. And so um about the

time I start understanding a little bit of what they're doing, it's over and they have to have to start again. So uh yeah, that's but that that that's okay.

It's um but it's not a skill set that you can put on the shelf and take back off the shelf later.

uh you know it's not like I'm a nurse

you know anatomy is not going to change when you come back 5 years later okay but the uh and you know there may be a few medical procedures that are different or something like that but nursing will still be nursing 5 years later you can put that one on the shelf keep your shirts active go back to work when the kid goes to kindergarten that's not an unusual thing people do that stuff all the time this one you're just saying I'd rather be home than make 400k and that's not that's perfectly okay >> but you don't choice Enter that on assumptions is all I'm saying.

>> No, you don't want to go. You don't want to go. We're going to do this and hope it works out.

and this is what we are both willing to do. >> Yeah. >> And if you're not willing to do that, then don't quit. >> Yeah. And weigh out all the opportunity costs on that cuz $400,000 is a big income. And I'm not saying money is everything, but to Dave's point, there's a lot to be weighed and considered there. kind of like what you said in the first uh segment about you have to make

a decision with the end in mind.

>> I'm pretty sure 98% I made that number up >> of uh 99.9% of the ladies who have their

first child and when they go back to work it's very difficult.

>> Yes. >> Now I have a lady working here that just had her third child and she couldn't wait to go back to work. Listen,

you did not lie, Dave. There is no lie.

>> So, it, you know, finding reasons to get out of the house. >> It's a normal thing to have this, you know, have this angst. Um, and if you're

a career lady, that's a normal thing.

And so, you just got to work through what's real here.

[Music]

[Music]

Are you staying on track with your baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply

head to the show notes, click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the free quiz, and we'll send you a personalized plan.

Nicole is in Utah. Hi, Nicole. How are you?

I'm so good. Thank you so much for taking my call. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Good. Good. I'm so excited, but I can't I'm a little nervous. Okay, so I have a

question. I My husband and I are on baby step number two. Um we've gone through a

lot of uh we've got a lot of medical and

credit card debt. Um I've hadn't really bad health problems the last three to four years. Um, so now we are just struggling to pay all our credit cards and our medical bills. Um, I was listening to you earlier and somebody called in and you told them to stop um,

contributing to the 401k in those kind

of cases. Is that right?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. My question is, would it be smart or really stupid to take that 401k money

out to help with the debts and the

monthly payment? I would not take the money out of the 401k that you have stocked up thus far, but I would stop contributing to it. How much are you currently contributing?

>> Um, we stopped contributing about a month ago, so we're not contributing anymore. >> How much debt have you got in credit cards and medical bills?

>> Uh, in credit cards, we've got close to

20,000 in medical debt. It's probably

4,000. >> 4,000. And uh how much are your do you own your cars?

>> Um we don't owe any on our cars. We drive our 2004.

>> Good. What's what's your household income?

>> It's about 115 um for my husband and I make like 12. I just do part-time work. >> Okay. >> Are you are you still ill?

>> Um no. I'm I'm feeling better and I I'm able to work now um full-time. So, I'm

slowly increasing that, which is helping a little. >> Good. Okay. I'm If you're all better now, why are you slowly increasing it?

>> Uh, just to just to get my momentum up back to where I'm 100% functioning. I

had a knee replacement, three knee surgeries, and carpal tunnel. So, it's like kind of fresh and I still have to recover from it a little bit. >> When does when did you have your knee replaced?

>> Uh, a year ago.

You should be back functioning.

>> Yeah. >> Does not take a year to do a knee replacement. >> It also depends on what kind of work you're trying to do.

>> Yeah. I actually work as a lunch lady at this school and I also on the side do door dash deliveries just to try and make some money. >> So you this for you is a lot of standing, a lot of lifting. I still agree with Dave. I feel like you should be ready if you've done the physical therapy.

>> Yeah. >> What's the doctor say?

The doctors I don't say much at all.

They'll let you know. They'll let you know when they're clear to work.

>> Yeah. I mean, >> yeah. Yeah. I'm clear to work for sure.

>> Yeah. And and so you need we don't need to be door dashing and lunch lady. We need a real job >> and start getting some some some money coming in. >> And you guys aren't managing the 115 very well either.

This should not 24,000 should not be killing you if you make 115,000 plus your income.

>> I'm agreed. >> I think you're not on a budget. Am I right? >> I know you're not on a budget.

>> Okay. So, we're going to >> We have it written down one, but we don't very well. We're >> Yeah, it's not the same. We're going to hook you up with Every Dollar uh the all new Every Dollar.

It's the best budgeting app out there. But not only that, it's going to help you >> walk through what we're teaching you here. Okay? So, at the end of this call, as long as you open every dollar, it's going to pick up where we left off and keep you on track.

Okay. But you have to promise that you're going to log in and on board. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Now, >> okay. >> Now, a year after a knee replacement, you need a full-time job >> and uh your your family needs the income and you guys need to clean this mess up.

So, um, yeah, >> it it sounds like talking to you that your body has recovered more than your emotions from the medical problems.

>> You hit the nail on the head there. Yeah. >> Okay. I don't blame you. I'm a I'm a wuss when it comes to pain. So, my wife is like a Navy Seal and I get a hangail and I'm in ICU. So, um, so I get that.

But, um, I I think it's going to be really good for your emotions and and everything. your energy level will go up when you've got something to a harness to lean into to pull. And so go do that.

Go do something now. And um the more activity you have, the more endorphins are released, the more some of this the cloud, the fog starts to lift and you go on. And so hard work actually solves a lot of stuff in this situation. But yeah, you guys need to get that 115 barking and then you add another 50 to it.

And you guys are not only going to pay off this debt, you're going to build an emergency fund. you're going to start building wealth. >> And that's that's that's where we're headed with this. So, let's go somewhere with this rather than simply survival and trying to find some hack so we don't have to deal with our disorganization like borrowing on your 401k or cashing out your 401k.

That doesn't make sense. You have enough money to get this paid off very very quickly. You should be debtree in under a year. >> Amen.

>> Maybe around six months depending on what you make at your new job. full-time job, big girl job, like get up 8 o'clock in the morning, go to work, come home five o'clock, >> you'll feel better. >> Yeah. Real job.

And it's not lunchroom job. Go do something. I don't care what you're doing. Customer service, I don't care what you're doing.

week. And Door Dash is a copout.

>> You go get it. Go get her done, girl.

It's going to be good for you.

Cynthia is in Panama City, Florida. Hi

Cynthia, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. Doing better than I deserve.

How are you? >> Just the same. How can I help?

>> Great. Great. Well, I wanted to say first of all, I'm I'm kind of nervous. I hope that I can word this so that it's understood. And I wanted to say thank you for teaching me how to become a millionaire. I believe in the Bible. I believe your advice. And I believe I will become a millionaire. So, thank you for teaching me how to handle money now and when I become millionaire status.

>> Perfect. And so my situation, I did um

complete financial youth university recently and I'm doing the um every dollar budget, but I'm stalled out on baby step six. Um cuz I'm in a situation

now where I'm a caregiver for my parents, my elderly parents. They're 88 and 93. Uh we went through the hurricane

in 2018. It destroyed uh my house, their

house. My husband helped us put everything back together, but he's passed away. And now my plate is very full with being a caregiver, and I never want to go through having to rebuild another house by myself. My question is, should I sell the house, rent until I

can make my next move, and just bank the proceeds from the cell until I can get

out of this state?

Are you living with your elderly parents that you're giving care to >> partially? I'm there during the week and

then I come here to my home.

>> So you have a home you have a home separate and that's the home we're talking about.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And so what's your current home worth?

>> Um 370ish.

>> And the reason you're selling it is because you don't want to rebuild it if there's another hurricane.

I'm afraid that another hurricane will come and not only will I have damage to my house, but my parents' house, evacuating them, finding a place for all of us, going through the the hell that we went through in 2018 alone.

>> You're going to do it again if you live in Florida. >> Yeah, most likely. I mean, it's a >> even if you rent, you're not going to escape it. >> How long have you lived in Florida? Your whole your whole life? I moved in 2013

from Texas. >> And so in 2013, this hurricane that came through last, was that your first big one?

>> Um, yes and no. Um, you know, I had

lived in Florida be previously, but it was far away from the coast. That was Opal. Opal was just a lot of wind and rain. Unless you plan on moving your elderly parents out of Florida and everybody sells and moves north, there's no avoiding this.

>> Yeah. I mean, moving into a rental doesn't avoid it. It just means that somebody else has to rebuild the house, but >> you still have to evacuate. You still have to >> still have to go through you still have to go through all the issue. So, um, no,

I I don't think that's a logical fear that I would deal with. I know it's been hell and I know you've been wounded by this and I'm hearing the pain in your voice. I'm sorry for that. But no, I would not liquidate a home >> unless I'm moving away from Florida.

>> Yeah.

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[Music]

[Music]

Buying or selling a home in this weird wild world requires facts, not drama.

And there's a lot of drama and falsehoods floating around, particularly stuff like Tik Tok and so forth regarding real estate and what's really happening out there. You need real facts. We'll help you with that. We have a website called usousing market trends

that gives you simple facts so you'll know what's really going on. Check it out at ramseysolutions.com/market or click the notes in click in the show notes if you're on a podcast or YouTube and it'll put you right in there. Jessica is in Massachusetts. Hi Jessica, how are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um I just have uh a question. It's kind

of more of like advice on how to proceed

from here. Um, so just a little background, my husband and I, um, followed your steps. Um, we paid off all

of our debt and thank you for the leadership in that way to get us through

to where we are now. >> Congratulations. I'm proud of you.

>> Thank Thank you. Um, so we're having a

little bit of an issue with interpersonal relationships now that we are in a spot where we're kind of living

like nobody else like you have stated.

Um, and a lot of our friends and family

members are kind of making remarks

towards us when we do do something

because we have the means to do it. Um,

like we bought, you know, my my husband

bought his truck outright and you know

people are like, "Oh, it must be nice." >> Who who who are people?

>> Some of it's mostly um people like my

husband's friends. Um, >> he needs new friends.

>> That's >> That's called haterade. That's haterade.

That's >> You know what I'm Listen, real friends are exposed when two things happen.

>> Crisis and success.

>> Mhm. >> That's when you find out who your real friends are. >> So, your husband has found out that he has acquaintances.

>> Yeah. >> They're not friends. >> It's so true. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Friends know how to celebrate you.

>> Yeah. I mean, >> yeah. I I've got I've got a friend that hit, you know, made made an amazing

amount of money selling his business the other day and the only thing I can think of to say is way to go. I'm proud of you. >> Right. >> Cuz he's like my friend, >> right? Yeah. >> I I didn't I didn't roll my eyes and go all billionaires should be taxed,

>> you know? I mean, really, >> that's just dumb. >> Yeah. So, is that what they're saying? Must be nice. That's what they're saying to him. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. in kind of like making like snide

remarks like that when you know when we talk about it. And I mean it's not like we didn't try like be when we first started to do your >> program. Number one, number one, we don't need to talk about it so much. We just need to do whatever we're going to do. >> Yeah. >> Doesn't need to be a lot of discussion.

But number two, if somebody does that, they get about two of those and third strike they're out. >> Yeah. I mean, he could if if it really if you really think it's a friend, which the behavior doesn't suggest that, but if it is something that you're like, man, I really want to see, then just ask him about it. That's what I would do. If I had a friend that I'd been friends with for years and they started with this business, I would believe in the

friendship enough to say, "Hey, when you say that, what do you mean?" Because if it if the tables were reversed, I'd be happy for you. And I would just ask them >> and then you're going to learn a lot by their response or he will. and then you can take it from there.

>> But I think what you've got is you're not real friends is what I think.

>> Okay. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. >> Yeah. I think you're just going to find out. I mean I you know uh we found out

during uh co we had a whole bunch of negative press and we found out who our friends were. >> Mhm. >> And we found out when we're very successful and we get in the Hall of Fame and we have another number one bestselling book, we find out who our friends are. Um, but the number of times I'm going to tolerate someone calling up and going, "Well, look at you."

You know, I'm going to be going, "Uh, well, look at you, moron." I mean, seriously. >> I mean, I'm going to give I want to give a little bit of grace for sometimes people have moments where they do not show up as their best self. I mean, I'm just >> Yeah, but I'm saying I call them You're saying call them out. You're going to be a little more gentle in calling them out than I am.

>> I don't know about gentle, but I am going to call them out. >> Yeah. I'm going to definitely I'm going to be going, "Hey, you know that that what you're doing right there is just dumb." >> Yeah. >> Don't do that.

And we're not you know, we're not going to be doing this anymore. So, not not if you want to hang around here. So, you know, and if it's family, then you just limit the amount of time you're around them. Just go, I can't hang out here.

It's too much too much negativity. >> Yeah. >> Uh you know, all you're doing is trashing everything I've been working hard for.

>> Oh, >> that one pisses me off.

>> That's your That's your >> That's like a hot button. I'm like Ly's got Ly's got work overalls on what Ly's

got. >> Ly's got calluses. Ly's got hours spent

while you were sitting on your butt drinking beer watching Netflix. That's what Ly's got. I got your Lucky. Okay, >> that gets me Ly's butt.

>> I I Man, that gets me going right there.

You're so lucky. Luck didn't have squat to do with this, darling.

>> It was not luck at all. God's blessings I'll go with. Okay. And my hard work.

There is some corn in the field because we freaking planted some corn. Luck had nothing to do with it. Okay. Hello.

>> I can tell this really bothers you.

>> Yeah, this one bothers me. I can't stand it. It's like >> and it it's even it's even people out there just in the comments and stuff. I don't read the comments and junk, but that I used to get like in when I used to uh inter face with people on Twitter when it was new and you could argue with people back then.

It was kind of fun >> and I would just go at them, you know, cuz it's so fun. And then but then but yeah, >> you know what I hate? It's two. It's a it's a combination of two.

When people say, "Oh, are you still doing your little budget or whatever?" >> Oh, yeah.

>> Yeah. Demeaning. Yeah. Demeaning.

>> Are you still doing that little business? >> Still doing that little Yeah, I'm still It's got, you know, I got a little million dollars from it.

>> And so, matter of fact, I got two little

million dollars. >> There's two of those little million dollars over there from that. And might be three soon of those little billion dollars. And that Yeah, but we're still working on that little Yeah, you're right. That's so demeaning. I hate that.

It's like, aren't pat you on the head?

Aren't you cute? Oh, you doing that little >> Aren't you cute? >> Still working on that little >> You still doing that little Dave Ramsey cult thing? >> Oh, >> yeah. That one. That's That's just That's hilarious. It's funny. So, here's the deal. The the the Catholics have a wonderful saying. They say that envy is one of the seven deadly sins.

>> Wow. Yeah. >> And so, jealousy is I want what you have.

Envy is I don't think I can have what you have, so I don't want you to have it. >> That's diabolical. >> It's diabolical. It's evil at its core.

>> That is. >> And so that that's the kind of stuff you run into, Jessica, as you start to win.

But it does. It separates the sheep from the goats. It separates the wheat from the tears. >> And it pretty obvious. I mean, I got I got >> poison over here. And I got fruit over here. >> And so I'm going to hang out with the fruit and the poison's going to have to go away. >> Yeah. Cuz they can't cheer you on.

>> You are opting out of my life by being a butt. I'm serious. I mean, it's just how this works. That's right. We'll talk about it depending on how long the friendship quote unquote been going on.

Be how how gentle we are or how much we talk about it. But if it's a casual thing, I'll just casually not be available anymore.

>> That's right. >> I'm casually not going to show up at your next deal. I'm saying that cuz I don't want to hang out with a bunch of goats. >> That's so good. >> Not the deal. So, yeah. >> It is disappointing though when that happens. >> It does. It does aggravate you, but um and I I'm still capable obviously of getting aggravated about it, but yeah, you're so lucky.

>> You're so lucky. So lucky. Must be nice.

>> Yeah, man. >> Yeah. You just just line up behind that luck and think about the number of hours, the number of airline miles. Oh my god, the amount of time I spent in a jet >> flying and going through freaking TSA and all man, the stuff we've done, the stuff, the work, the hotel rooms. Gross.

Grotesque.

Gross. Instead of sleeping in your own bed. You know, you're so lucky.

I don't think so.

[Music]

Heat.

[Applause] [Music]

Heat.

Our

[Music]

[Music] scripture of the day, Luke 6:37. Do not judge and you will not be judged. Do not condemn and you will not be condemned.

Forgive and you will be forgiven.

Benjamin Franklin said, "Creditors have better memories than debtors."

This is true. H Marsha's in Spokane,

Washington. Hi, Marcia. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm just groovy.

>> Cool. How can we help?

>> Hey, um yeah, my husband passed away this last uh winter or spring.

>> I'm sorry. >> And I'm Yeah, it was kind of a bummer, but >> yeah. um trying to get things put together financially. You know, fortunately, um I don't have a problem

in that we have money, which is nice,

>> but trying to figure out how to be wisest with what I've got. And um I've

been listening to you and um you know,

hearing about I think it has turned the IRAs into um to Ross and wondering if

that would be a good choice for me. Um,

what I don't know if it helps you to know what I've got going.

>> How How old are you?

>> I am 60. I'll be 67 in a week.

>> 67. All right. And how how much uh were

you left in IRA?

>> Um, well, I got 1.2 in SEP.

>> Mhm. >> Uh 300 in an IRA.

And then I've got um right now 420

sitting in a high

3.75. >> Mhm.

>> And um debts are about 50,000 on our

house >> and that's at about 3.75 also.

>> And then we have a rental in Huntington Beach that um we use for our kids who

are missionaries down there and other missionaries to live in. And that one we owe about 725 on.

>> Mhm.

>> And it does not create an income because you furnish it to missionaries.

>> Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's just

>> um kind of on its own.

>> I have income um for

your last uh conversation with because

uh we had years tell us. Oh, >> you're cutting out a little bit, Marca. I didn't hear all that. You have an income. That's what >> um uh I have an income of social security of 3,700 from my husband.

>> Mhm. >> And then about 30,000 a month from our

network marketing business.

>> Okay. All right. Good. Okay. So, you got plenty to live on. Obviously, >> I got plenty to live on. Yeah. Yeah.

>> All right. >> And figure out how to be the wisest.

>> Yeah. >> With the other stuff. >> Well, the no-brainer is take some of the high yield savings and pay off your mortgage. >> Mhm. the 50,000 >> like tonight. >> Yeah. >> Okay, that's a no-brainer. Uh the other two the other two areas I do want to work on longterm but none of them are a panic is I want to start get with your Smart Investor Pro or whoever's helping you with your investments and start talking about moving the IRAs and the SEPs gradually into Roth because

whatever is not there when you hit 72 and a half you're going to have required minimum distributions >> and you make enough money from the network marketing stuff to uh pay the

taxes that are created if you move some

money over systematically every year for the next several years. Because if it's all in Roth, it's growing from that point forward tax-free and it passes to your kiddos if you've got them or your heirs tax-free and no

required distributions on any of it. If it's in a traditional, it's going to have required distributions over 10 years on inherited and required minimum

distributions if you're if you're alive and it's, you know, paying out to you, required to pay out to you. So, they're going to get their tax money. It's just a matter of when and what it looks like.

>> Here's another thing I didn't throw in there on that 300 in the IRA.

>> That's actually from an old IRA that he had with um Shriners through whatever.

But um so I have three years to decide what I want to do with that. If I want to continue it where it is, move it into something else is I don't really understand that. >> I don't know what it's in why you would have anything that's three years. What a shrine. >> Well, in three within the three years um it's in transame I think is what um does

it but within I got a letter and within three years I need to decide what my final place I want it to land.

>> Okay. Yes, I do. Do you have someone that's advising you on your on your investments?

>> Uh, not really.

>> Okay. So, jump on ramsolutions.com and find a couple of the Smart Investor pros and interview them in the area.

We're not in the investment business, but these are people that we have vetted that give advice that sounds like we did it, like we said it, okay? And um that's

why we're willing to put our name beside them and they have the heart of a teacher which is most important because I want you to understand everything you're doing or don't do it. Okay.

>> But basically I see two things three things I want to do. One I want want to pay off your house today. Two is I want to begin a systematic move of the IRA

and the SEP into good growth stock mutual funds and Roth IAS. And I think you can pay the taxes out of your huge income because you're making $360,000 a

year and I got a feeling you don't spend anywhere near that.

>> You're right. >> Okay. And so you're right.

>> Yeah. And so you know that G if you spend $100,000 a year on taxes out of that and you're able to move all this stuff into Roth, it's really a good move. And I'm going to begin to do that.

It doesn't have to happen immediately, but put a system on that. And the third thing is I got to deal with that $725,000 mortgage.

>> Yeah. >> Mortgage has got to go away at some point. And I don't know when what you're going to do to make that go away, whether you're going to use some of your investments and some of your income to make it go away >> or whether you're going to look at selling it. >> Yeah. How long I mean, what did you think? When's that going to play out till having other people stay there? Um

well, as long as the Lord calls their ministry to be there, they they head up a ministry called Circuit Writers from Youth with a Mission. Um Okay. Down there. Yeah. And that's something we've been committed to >> to uh >> Yeah. And what's that propert what's that property worth?

>> About 2 million. >> Okay. Well, I mean, another option another option is find a million and a quarter property >> that you pay cash for, >> right? >> And move them into that. sell that and make and move them into that. That might be another option. >> That's a great idea. >> You know, something like because that's not a bad that's not exactly sluming it.

>> So, um >> Yeah. No, no, it's not. They have they live downstairs and then upstairs is a mother-in-law and they have four staff members live upstairs.

>> Um and pay rent also up there.

>> Okay. >> Which I don't know. I mean, >> kind of playing around. I don't care how you do it, but some whether you move to a million and a quarter million and a half and you pay cash for that, but I don't want you sitting there at 70 75 years old >> with a $700,000 mortgage for a missionary property.

I want you to pay it off, >> okay? >> Somehow or another cuz cuz that I want that stability and peace for you because you're being so generous >> and u and I appreciate what you're doing and I'm familiar with Youth with a Mission, very familiar. And so I know exactly what's going on there. And you know, I I think what you're doing is awesome.

So keep it up.

>> And uh it could be that we Okay, we got 420 in a high yield savings. Uh we take 50 out, that's 370 towards 7 and a

quarter, that's only 300,000. You may just pay it off out of your income.

Reduce it by that high yield savings and then pay it off out of your income. Um, but I'm not going to be sitting there with a high yield savings account and a bunch of mortgages. That that money needs to be used to start clearing stuff or some other strategy. But those are the three areas if I were in your shoes that I would be working on. I'm sorry for your loss. Um, and um, but it sounds like you guys have done an absolutely wonderful job uh,

creating income and taking good care of it. So, congratulations. And um

obviously you and he together have left you in a really good spot.

>> Yeah. >> So important. >> That's good. So yeah, three things.

Let's clean up those separas and move them into Roths. Let's pay off your house tonight and then let's start trying to figure out how we're going to pay off the property in Huntington or how we're going to uh shift it to a different property to where we end up net net debtree.

>> And so I mean I don't care if you just pay it off and keep it. It's not a bad idea. I think that's kind of what I'd probably do. >> I'd throw 370 of that high yield savings at it >> and then, you know, $30,000 a month coming in. >> I'm gonna just chunk that puppy and be done with it in about a year and a half, two years. I don't want you hitting 70 years old with a mortgage.

>> That that's what I don't want. Even if you got a million bucks laying over there, I still don't want you having a mortgage. >> So that that we got to work towards that. That's the direction. Good question. Good question, Marca. Thank you for calling. That puts us Hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 87. If You Feel Stuck, It’s Time for a Reset | September 8, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q79cWhv6m9U) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:09:05 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is

weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

The phone number88255225LE88255225.

A daddy for the second time. I'm sure you've talked about it this week, but you haven't talked about it with me, so I want to give a nod. You look amazingly

refreshed for a guy who's getting no sleep. >> I did the cucumbers on the eyes and everything you told me to do again.

>> So, thank you. The advice works. >> All my facial tips, folks. Uh, it'll sneak up on you. Well, congratulations, my friend. You ready to go? >> I'm pumped. >> All right, let's go to Joey in California. Joey, how can we help?

>> Hello. How you guys doing? >> We're doing great. George is a little sleepy, but he's easy on me, Joey.

>> He's alert.

>> That's awesome. All right. Uh, the question that I had for you, uh, I've been following the show, trying to get out of debt as much as I can. The last two things that I have on my plate is my car loan. Uh it's 28,353

to be exact. And then I owe city tax, sales tax, uh and I'm on a payment plan for 31, uh774.

My question being, I have an offer from the dealer for a trade in uh for 25,000

on my car. Uh I don't at the moment have

the money to pay the 3,000 um because

I'm not trying to take money out of my sales tax account and all the stuff that I'm going to owe for the end of the year. Uh, so I just want to know what's best in this situation to keep moving forward.

>> What other debt do you have?

>> That's it. I just have the car and sales tax. Um, that that's that's literally

everything. >> And what do you make?

>> Uh, I run so 80 to 100. It fluctuates,

but I have my own company. I do screen printing, embroidery. >> What if you had the money? Um, the whole

enchilada, the extra 3,000. What if you

had all that set aside? What would you do for a car if you took this deal?

>> That's my other question. Um, you don't have any money for that either.

>> No, no, I don't have any other money for that. I could I could go and borrow again, but that's exactly what I don't want to do. >> No, no, that's not where it's not where I was going. I just wanted to see where we stood if you had money set aside for a beater. >> Um, do you have anything in savings?

>> Uhhuh. >> Um, $1,000. Okay. Yeah, I have the $1,000 and um I do have a little bit in my um

stock account, but it's not much. It's another five 600 bucks.

>> Okay. Well, I mean, you're half there.

>> Stock account. >> A stock account. He's got some single stocks. >> Sorry. I heard stock and I was like, that's kind of fun. >> That's different. >> Yeah, different. That's in the top.

>> Okay. So, here's the deal. The tradein offer is way less than you would get if you sold it privately. So, could you sell it privately and get 28 or 29 30 for it? I I've posted it. It's been on

the market for about five months now.

I've been for I've been listening to the show since the be uh the beginning of the year. So that's that's what I first tried and um it hasn't sold. I just think that everybody's in the same situation where it's a soft market.

>> Yeah. This guy What kind of car is it?

>> It's a 2021 Grand Cherokee. Um yeah.

>> What do you have it listed for?

>> I have it listed for 28.

>> Okay. And you've checked Kelly Kelly Kelly Blue Book private party value and you're right on the money there or a little under. >> I'm I'm right on the money as far as the privates though. Um the trade in I've gotten as low because I've shopped it to many dealers. I've gotten as low as 19,000 and for whatever reason this dealer is offering 25. So that's why I'm

>> Is it contingent on you getting a new car from them?

>> Because sometimes they'll try to hose you in and go, "Well, you'll have to get a new car payment from us to do the trade at this value.

Yeah, I I made sure of it. I I um made sure that it wasn't any other terms.

It's just straight 25 and that's it.

>> Okay. Could you go to your local credit union and get a small loan for the difference that you owe maybe plus a little bit more to get you something to drive around in for now?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So that was that was the other thing that I had thought is cuz I I was going to, you know, just take a little bit out of my sales tax and and pay myself back on it and get a beater, but then I just thought, you know, I I do use the car a lot for deliveries for the company. >> Well, on my screen here, it says, should I lease a car? You haven't mentioned that part yet.

>> Yeah. So, that was the other question.

Instead of carrying the debt, um, and I

know the answer from you guys. I just wanted to hear it. Maybe that will help me get out of that mindset, but >> No. >> Yeah.

>> So, let's save her all when somebody says, "I know what you're going to say, but I want to hear it." Let's just save some time. No. >> Okay. >> All right.

So, George, thoughts. We answer calls of how we would deal with this if we were in your shoes. And I would be going down to my credit union and trying to get a loan for, let's say, $9,000. That'll cover your three and give you six to go get something off Facebook Marketplace that'll get you from A to B.

>> Okay? And that avoids you leasing a brand new car. That avoids you taking on another car payment. It avoids taking on more debt.

>> Yeah. >> So, we're much closer to getting you debtree. >> What's the car payment on this current car?

>> Uh 514. 514 is the car payment and gas

I'm spending around three and then the insurance is around 125.

>> That's great. So, then you're debtree. you got an extra 500 bucks to throw at your emergency fund and savings >> and your tax liability.

>> And with the income you make, if you do George's plan, uh you should be able to pay off that small loan to the credit union pretty quickly. Get after it.

>> And the other thing is in the next 30 days, seven grand is going to slip through your hands. Am I wrong?

>> No. Yeah. >> So, you have you'll have $3,000 to cover the difference in the next 30 days. That's right. So, there's no like crazy rush on this. If you can just really live on nothing for the next 30 days, 60 days, you'll have the money to to sell this car outright.

>> Yeah. And and that's what I've been doing kind of, you know, I haven't been doing anything crazy. The the number has been going down and down and I think that I'm just in the mindset going crazy trying to get completely out of debt by the end of the year. That's my goal. Um, so my second question to your guys's answer is, um, so it's okay to get that

second loan even though I'm pulling out more money, uh, but getting out of this car. >> Yeah. You're not necessarily pulling out more money. What you're doing is reducing $31,000 of debt down to nine.

>> Okay. >> And so it's kind of like a debt payoff plan. And then that 9,000 you're going to attack aggressively. But I but what I heard is is if you're just patient, you're you're intentional, there's only debt you have, let's get that budget.

Let's in the next 30 days, you've got that extra three grand. So then you can take the deal.

>> Okay? >> You see what I'm saying? Like you can take I think that's actually a pretty good deal >> because for five months you've you've uh Yeah. I'd go to them and say, "Guys, here's my deal. I'm in. Can we agree to this? Will you hold that price? Well, you still give me the 25 um you know, 3

weeks from now when I get my next check or whatever. And now you get 25 for it.

You you've got the additional three. So, we're not going down to the credit union, you know. Uh or are you suggesting he still do that for a beater? >> Well, he needs something to get around A to B. I don't know what your situation is, how close you are to work.

>> Wait 60 days. I mean, I I think you have to look at everything. And so, the the car dealers, they're they're a little bit desperate right now. That market is soft. So, the reason they're giving you such a good offer on this is because they're just looking for transactions.

>> Yeah. >> They obviously think they can sell it.

If they're going to give you 25 for it, there's enough margin in it. Because I don't think people realize this, George.

It's such a razor thin margin in the car business. The way they make the money is the financing. They don't make a lot of money on the actual transaction. >> They might make a few hundred bucks off the transaction.

They'll make a few thousand if they can get you to finance it long term. >> That's what they see. They see your car as a as a good car and they can make more money on it. So, I don't know.

See if they'll honor the price in 60 days just as an option. You've got two ideas here from George. >> Get resourceful, man. But make sure you take debt off the table as an option of going to lease a car or getting a new payment.

>> Pretty interesting. Puts it out there. 5 months, no bites on a nice grand Cherokee. Tells you where we're at in the economy.

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This show is brought to you by BetterHelp. All right. As a society, we tend to overshare sometimes. We tell everybody everything.

And as fun as it can be to talk to random people about all the stuff going on in our lives, when you need real help with relationships or clinical issues like stress or anxiety or depression, random people probably don't have the right answers. You often need guidance from a licensed therapist who follows a strict code of conduct and who's been trained to sit with hurting people. And that's why I recommend my friends at BetterHelp.

That means that no matter what you're facing, chances are they've got somebody who specializes in exactly what you're struggling with. BetterHelp is totally online and that makes it easy to fit therapy into your wild schedule. To get

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>> All right, Sabrina is up next in Bentonville, Arkansas. Sabrina, how can we help?

>> Thank you so much for taking my call.

Um, I am really good at saving money, but I'm not good at making money. So, I'm trying to figure out if I need a new career path and if I should get a certification, go back to school or something. >> Um, then the other part to it is I also

feel like I can't afford to work. Um

because I am currently receiving some government benefits and I desperately want to be independent, but it's hard to make enough money.

>> Got it. >> To make up for what I would lose.

>> Okay. Got it. Well, this is fun. I This is a good day for you because we're going to talk about work options, but you also got the uh budgeting uh guru to

my right here who can help out. So, this will be fun. Okay, let's get into this.

Uh are you single? Are you in are you married? What is your relationship status? >> I'm a single mom. >> You're a single mom. Okay. What is your income? Tell us what your income consists of. How much is it and what does it consist of?

>> So, um I have been trying to build a

business and last year was the first year we turned a profit and it was only maybe $10,000.

>> Okay. Um, I do get a little bit under

$1,000 of disability a month and then,

um, I receive some child support.

>> Okay. So, what is the, uh, let's get real numbers here. We're going to put the business aside because that's just not enough to even count at this point.

Uh, just under $1,000. How close to

$1,000 are we on the disability?

>> 957.

>> 957. Okay. And then what's the child support?

750. >> Is that consistent?

>> It is. >> So, he's doing a good job there. Okay.

So, that is uh $1,700 a month cuz the

10,000 is just again I'm not even going to try to count that. What is the business?

>> Um I make specialty um dogouses.

>> And And you make the I mean this is like cutting, sawing wood, hammering together. Is that right?

>> Yes. Wow. What is And may I ask, what is your disability payment for?

>> Um, a few different things. Um, I had um

a brain tumor and um a lot of mental

health struggles.

>> Okay. >> So, I'm kind of I was excited. I was getting over those things and I thought I could hold down a job. >> Yeah. Um but actually just like a few weeks ago I started having a lot of uh heart issues now. >> Oh bless you. >> So um I I just don't know what

>> does the physical labor aggravate any of this? >> Yeah, >> absolutely. I mean that that's why it has been so slow growing with this.

>> So we need to find a whole new career slash business for you. Yeah.

>> That won't affect your health. But before we get into that, let's look at if you were to get a full-time job. I'm assuming the 957 goes away. That's what you were addressing, correct?

>> Yes. And also, we get MAP benefits and

like with that I get free uh free phone

and cheap internet. Like there's just a host of things. >> Okay. Well, let's give George and I that picture well >> because I I can help you get really great phone service for $20 a month.

I can help you get great internet for 50 bucks a month. So, if we're talking, hey, I'm going to lose 200 bucks of benefits and 957. Great. We can help you go make two grand a month and cover everything.

>> That's right. So, here's here's the deal, Sabrina. So, the the physical stuff is a challenge, okay?

many people who are in your shoes where they feel like it is such a crazy risk to let go of a minimal benefit in order

to actually make quite quite, you know, a bit more money. And so, you've got to understand, it's very simple math. If we start making we start bringing home three or four grand a month then we're not worried about those benefits. Would you agree with that statement?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So we also know that you can't do something that's very very physical. So pretty soon if not right away we are going to at least press pause on this side hustle or this business that involves manual labor. We agree with that statement too. Correct.

>> That's a hard one, but I I see your point. Yes. Well, it's not my this isn't like my opinion. This is if to George's

point, if if the physical labor is causing issues, then it then we need to do something. Correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, um it also feels then that a

job that where you're on your feet all day long might also be problematic. Is that true?

Um, right now what I'm going through it

is I, you know, again, I was hoping I was feeling better and then got hit with the >> I get it. Hey, listen, hang in there.

This is just another storm. You've been through worse. Yes.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's talk about remote work.

What have you done in the past? Do you have any prior work history?

>> Um, I've done some direct sales. I

worked on a ranch for years. Um, like I

have worked experience. I've always worked. I've just never made good money.

>> Okay. Well, again, we we'll work to that. We just got to get steady work and then we figure out how to grow. Okay.

>> So, >> Okay. >> Um, my question is,

is there anything that you did on the ranch or in the direct sales that immediately spits out an idea to you to say, "Hey, this I can do."

Um, I mean both of them I loved and um with

direct sales. >> What were you selling? >> Good at selling. >> What were you selling? >> Um, with Mary Kay um and so I'm very

familiar with skincare and I have looked into getting my cosmetology license.

>> Well, right now we're not getting any kind of licenses because we don't have any money. >> Okay. Uh, how much is a cosmetology license?

um after appeal grants about 6,000.

>> Yeah, we just that's not realistic for you right now. Okay. Now, can we build up to that? Is that a target in the future? Yes. But what has to be true in

your health? And then, you know, how much money do we need to be able to uh assemble in order to save $6,000? That's

going to take some time. So, we want to just like the baby steps and get out of debt. We need some baby steps to get you some better income. Here's what I think.

I think you ought to be looking at anything and everything as it relates to some type of online sales or even customer service that pays well because if you can sell well then you can do customer service and over the phone uh

or online chat agent I would be looking because here's what's true about those jobs those jobs have high turnover because some other people are looking to you know do something else but in your case I think it could be great because it represents stability and we want to get to a point George where we we we

bring in enough income to where we're not worried about the uh $957 in

benefits and the $750 in child support is just that it's gravy for your

children. Uh George, I want to bring you in. You've been listening here. I I think this is remote work because of her health and I also think that those opportunities are out there due to turnover. Your thoughts? You've been listening. >> I'm I'm trying to figure out the child care situation. How many hours could you work per week?

>> Well, that's another issue. Um,

I have her every other week. So, when I

don't have her, you know, my schedule is very flexible. Um, when she's in school,

really, there's about 5 hours by the time I drive and pick her up and, you know, do all those things. >> It's fine. We got to make the best of it. It's not an issue. This is this is a

reality. See, when someone says this is an issue, that means, "Oh, there's another limitation." No, no, no, no, no.

Like, you're a single mom and you've overcome a lot of physical stuff. You can do this because you have to do this.

This isn't an issue. This makes it challenging. But if I can work five hours a day, then I'm going to work five hours a day. Yes.

>> Will I be able to make enough money though? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> To make up for the benefits.

>> Yes. And if you crunch the numbers for pretty much any retail job, you'll find out very quickly that your quality of life will go up if you get outside of the system if you have the ability to work. >> That's the key. I'm not mad at these government programs, but they cause people to stay stuck in these cycles where they think, "This is it.

This is as good as my life is going to get. I can only save up to $2,000 or else they cut all my benefits." And I want to show you a life where you have agency, where you have more control. And that's going to take some work. It's not going to be easy.

>> Yeah. And and by the way, don't just take our word for it, Sabrina. Run the numbers. Run 25 hours a week at 15 bucks

an hour or 30 hours a week at 20 bucks an hour. Run real numbers so that you get out of this mindset that I'm stuck with this benefit. Uh you actually can do this and you have to do this. We're we're cheering you on and you can do this. George, should we do a little Every Dollar. Hang on the line. We're going to send you our Every Dollar budgeting app, the premium version to help you through this.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Tyler's up in Orlando, Florida. Tyler, how can we help today?

>> Hey guys. Um, one of the things that I've been struggling with, I'm on baby step number four. I just started investing.

And I have been investing, but one of the things that's been kind of uh hard for me is investing in a Roth IRA or a

401k, any of those retirement funds. Uh,

and the reason for that is because honestly I I don't think I'll live that long and I I don't know how to break out of that. >> Do you have a terminal illness?

>> No. No, sir.

>> So, okay, I'll bite. How old are you?

>> This isn't a money question. You've got some sort of weird psychology thing going on that you probably need to get some help with because you just literally like I just don't know. I mean, what what age do you what age are you right now? And what age are you confident saying, "Hey, George, can I think I'll make it this far?" >> I'm 24. Um, I don't know. I That's part

of the thing is like I I don't know that

I won't make it or anything. It's just something kind of blocking me that like, hey, you know, like 65, that's a long time away. >> Tyler, welcome to life. Uh, this is

really going to freak you out. Can I get personal with you for a second? Can I Can I be personal? Sure. Okay. Uh, Tyler, I'm 51.

And I feel like I got a lot of left to give, but I have no idea if I make it

through to midnight tonight. Fair.

>> Fair. >> So, if I spend time thinking about that all the time, I'm not going to have issues with 401ks. I'm going to have issues with everything. Yes.

>> Yeah, that's true. >> You're 24. Uh I hate to be so harsh,

>> but uh Tyler, you are aware that you're going to die, right?

>> I do know that. Yes. Yes. And and and you are aware that you have no idea when that's going to happen, right?

>> Yes, I I do know that, too. >> So, I think you're focused on on on just the the what I don't know if this is a stage of your life that you're in. I don't know you well enough to give you some sort of analysis. >> A quarter life crisis. Well, I guess it depends. It could be midlife depending on how long he plans to live. Yeah. We don't know. So, are you single, Tyler?

>> Uh yes, sir. >> Okay. This might change once you have a family. I don't know. But there there's a piece of this where I go the heart of this is I don't think planning for the future is worth it cuz I don't know what the future is going to hold.

>> Right. >> Yeah. That that's kind of what I feel.

>> Well, by the way, by the way, not crazy.

I don't think you're nuts, by the way.

But let's flip that. We don't plan for the future and then say, "Boy, that's silly. Why would we plan for something that we have no idea what it is?" If you leave it to that, it's pretty good philosophy, right? But that's not what we do. We plan for it so that if we make

it, we can actually make it. Correct?

>> Yeah. >> Like what happens if you go, "Well, I'm 24. I'm not going to plan for the future. I'm going I'm going to live like I'm dying. It's a great Tim McGrath song, you know?" Um and uh and then I

make it to my 40s and I make it to my

50s and I make it to my 60 and then I wake up one day and I go, I got nothing and I and I can't work any longer and now I'm really in trouble. Gee whiz, I wish I had a plan for this.

>> That's the flip side. George, what would you say to this? Because I don't think there's anybody better suited to address this neurosis than you. >> Well, there's a lot of angles here, but the one I keep going back to is there's a much higher likelihood that you retire

broke than you dying at a young age. And

that's what we're seeing right now is a retirement crisis because people went, "Well, I'll just save later. Right now, I have other things to do. I got debt to pay. I don't know how to invest.

I'm scared. Whatever the reason is, they don't invest and therefore they don't have anything later. Yeah. And so you reap what you sew.

If you plant corn later on, you're going to have some corn when the harvest comes. And if you don't, don't be surprised when you're 61, broke, working a job you hate, going, I didn't think I'd live this long. Uhoh.

>> And so the there's a lot of other questions around this that makes me think that maybe you just need some some purpose in your work, uh vision for the future, and you're just feeling a little bit lost right now. >> I wonder, are you a person who over analyzes everything?

>> Uh definitely. For sure.

>> Are you in debt right now?

>> No, I paid off all my debts. Yes, sir.

>> Why would you do that if we don't know what the future holds? Why not just get as much debt as you can cuz we'll just die one day. >> Tricky Joy. That's a good point. You got it. >> That's a good point. >> I see this. Why did you pay off debt?

Why did you pay off your debt?

>> Uh, I mean, just because I knew I need like I I was living horribly in in every way possible and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. And so, >> yeah, but why not rack up a ton of credit cards, second mortgages, let's just go to the hilt because we're living for the moment, man. I don't know what tomorrow holds. Why not do that?

I I guess because I do, you know, I do

want a better future. And so I guess I'm

making an assumption that there is a future.

>> I know. >> When you go to bed tonight, you're assuming you're going to wake up tomorrow.

>> And I'd rather you wake up with more money than you had the day before. And it's not that you need to hoard wealth.

Um I see, you know, like part of this is are you worried that you're not going to get to enjoy the money?

Yeah, it's, you know, if I if I put it into something like mutual funds or an like index ETF, if I needed that at an

earlier time, I'm not going to get all those penalties that I would take if I took it out at full. >> I love this. Well, there's a better a much better solution. The solution is not, well, let me not invest. The solution is let me invest in retirement and start to create a bridge account that's in a taxable brokerage that you could use before you're 60. Let's say you wanted to early retire, start a business, pursue some hobbies at 50.

You're, well, I don't want to eat all the penalties. Well, you can use this bridge account to cover those expenses, >> but you're not going to be able to do that if you don't start investing today.

>> So, are you completely debtree with a fully funded emergency fund?

>> Yes, sir. >> Great. And how much do you make?

>> Uh, around 4,000 a month.

>> What do you do for a living?

>> Uh, I work for a rehabilitation center.

What do you want to do long term? What does 44y old Tyler >> want?

>> Oops, sorry. I actually really like this. Uh, I'm being promoted here pretty soon to um >> Great. >> Run over a intensive outpatient unit.

>> Great. >> And that's that's something I I'm I absolutely am so excited to do. I can't stand it. >> What's the uh Well, that's great news.

What's the health history of your family?

How long do they live? >> Uh, fine.

The only person in my direct family that's died is my grandfather from skin cancer. >> How old was he? >> Uh he was 68.

>> Okay. So again, I really believe I I was

not kidding earlier when I said therapy if this stuff starts to grip you to where you're making nonsensical decisions. So for one thing, you you believe in paying off debt, >> but you don't know why it makes sense to save money for when you're in your 70s.

>> None of this makes you a freak. having a little fun with this. And George and I kind of just walked you into some corner so you could see how your logic wasn't really playing out well. But at the same time, if you've got a real fear on this and this is coming from somewhere, talking to somebody's great, >> you know, and just kind of let's let's just get me what what's going on here?

Because I can tell you this. There's a fear and I'm not going to unpack all this on the show, but in five minutes, we could George and I can figure out pretty quickly what is this under this undercurrent of fear? Where is it coming from? because that's what's driving the very question that you're asking today.

So, be okay diving into that.

>> Yeah.

>> See how this affects our money? Our fears affect our future.

>> Because if you got fears and doubts about the future and you're feeling hopeless about it, why would you invest?

I agree. There's no reason to.

>> But if you feel like, man, I got a life to live. I could live until I'm 90. I want to make an impact. I want to leave legacy.

I want to have a family. I want to leave them inheritance. Then I'm going to get to investing. And so what I would do if I were you, Tyler, I would fully fund a Roth IRA for the year.

And then any money beyond that, you can throw into an index fund and a brokerage account and start to build this bridge account. From 24 to 65 or until 50, you're going to have a big old pile of money to enjoy long before your golden years. >> You know why I want a bunch of money when I'm in my 70s? >> Cuz you want a pickle ball court in your backyard.

>> I'm going to go Yes, as a matter of fact.

my geriatric friends on a pickle ball cruise. >> You know what? You're going to be the guy with a boat. I want you to be my friend with a boat because I don't I'm not gonna buy one. But Ken in his little yacht with his little captain's hat.

>> You know what? You got me pegged wrong.

I like all the boat outfits, but I think I'd rent the boat, not buy the boat.

>> He's all about the fashion.

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[Music]

Hey, how you doing on your baby steps?

Are you staying on track? Have you lost a little momentum? Uh, one of the things I love that we offer is we've got a fun little quiz uh uh uh for you on your uh

baby steps. just just a few minutes and

uh it's in the show notes and uh it's actually are you on track with the baby steps is the name of the quiz and just takes a few minutes and lets you know where you are and then give you a personalized plan on how to maybe keep the momentum uh or to get back on that momentum train. So check that out. Zach is up in New York. Zack, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, I appreciate you taking my call today. How you guys doing? >> Good. How are you sir?

>> Good, good. So, you know, everybody's calling in. Um, so my wife, she picked up one of Dave Ramsey's books about four years ago and we started doing the seven

baby steps. Um, so you we were lucky enough and we did them slightly out of order um because I have um $65,000 worth

of federal loans um for school, but I am

in the the public service loan forgiveness program and I've been in there for eight and a half years at this point. So, we sort of skipped around a

little bit. Um, and we were lucky enough to pay off our house last week.

>> Whoa. Congrats.

>> I wouldn't call that luck. Like, no one paid it off for you. You went a sweep state. >> I'm dying to know. I think America's dying to know. What order are we in right now? So, if we went to baby step six, where what have we not done?

>> So, um I'm just And I have the list up.

We did we did step one. Um, we have all debt paid off. We paid our cars off. We paid off my uh my private student loans which was about 75,000.

Um I paid off both cars. We have about

six months of our emergency fund um

fully funded.

>> Um >> you did baby step four. You're investing 15%.

>> So that's where we uh me and my wife are both at about 10% each.

>> Okay. Um, and so far together, um, she

has about 145 saved up in retirement and

I have, uh, 75,000

in, um, my 401k and then another 28,000

in a in a pension. So once that pens, if

I were, you know, continue with the pension, um, I guess when I retire, I would get about $626 a month. Um, and that was one of my

questions I was sort of leaning towards.

I didn't know cuz you know sometimes pensions you know they sort of expire sometimes

or sometimes they don't follow through by the time you're that age. So you know I I invested 28,000 into the S. So I

didn't know if that would be a good idea to remain in with the pension or if you

guys would recommend maybe moving that over to like a Roth IRA if that's even an option. >> Yeah. I mean, you'll do much better investing on your own outside of that pension cuz the returns are horrible because of how conservative they have to be and you have no control. So, it dies with you versus a Roth IRA, a 401k that can actually continue down the family line. So, there's a few things on the pension, but your question today is it revolving around the remaining student loan debt?

>> Yeah. So part of it is that and then the other question is what do we do moving forward since we like I said since we you we worked hard we got the house paid off. >> Um I wanted to hear from you guys perspective I guess about the student loan debt because I know um >> what is the question? What what I we got enough information. What is your direct question? >> Okay. Um, the direct question is, should I continue with my current payments of

$38 a month until I hit the 10-year mark

in hopes that, you know, it will be forgiven as my I have my 10 years of 120

payments. >> How much hope you got?

>> Well, I mean, I as of recently, I've had about five or six colleagues that have gotten those forgiven um who I work with. So, that that's the most hope I've got in a little while. Um, prior to that, I haven't heard too many people get forgiven. >> Exactly. >> And you're you're eight and a half years in out of 10. So, you're like, "Hey, man. I've already this is a sunk cost fallacy. I'm already this deep into it.

Do I just ride it out and see what happens?" >> Yeah. >> Do you have 65 grand sitting in a savings account right now you could pay it off with?

>> Uh, not right now. I don't. No. I mean, we got, like I said, the emergency fund and then maybe another uh 15k combined

in checking and savings. >> What was the original balance of the federal student loans?

They were. It's been about 65. It hasn't moved. >> Can I tell you something hilarious? You have paid $31,000 plus toward your

student loans and the balance hasn't moved. >> Yeah. >> So, this was not a free ride from the get-go. That $38 for eight and a half years, it cost you.

>> And so, you can ride it out for another year and a half and hope that it's there. I would personally, if you're going to do that, you would better have that 65 grand sitting there ready to pay it off in case something falls through, >> in case you didn't dot the eye and cross the tea and they go, "Nope, rejected." >> So, I'm not mad if you hold on at this point for a year and a half.

>> But I also think you guys have a high income that you could just knock them out at this stage of the game, especially with no mortgage payment. What are you guys making?

>> Yeah. So, so I make 143 and my my wife

makes 123. So, we're at about 266 total.

>> This is the hilarious part. You guys could pay this off in less than a year, but instead we've hung on to it for a decade for a false promise while paying 31 grand toward it and making no progress. That's the part that breaks my heart for you guys.

>> Yeah, like I said, I I you know, I was the first one to go to college in my family. Um, so I didn't really understand, you know, taking out loans exactly what that means in the the long term. And you know, I sort of found out the hard way there. Um, and like I said, unfortunately, I'm eight and a half years in now.

So, I was trying to >> sort of figure out, you know, for the next year and a half, what do we do? And then, you know, what can we do for our a kid moving forward so they don't have to deal with student loans?

If you guys had just followed it from day one as it is stated, you got baby step five there. Once you get rid of all the debt, we're investing into 529 plans. That's what I just had another kid already opening up the 529 to start investing because you invest a few hundred bucks a month into that thing.

It's going to be six figures by the time they turn 18.

>> Okay. Thanks to Compound, the 529, you guys are definitely >> pro 529.

>> Yes, 100%. There's also the education savings account, but it has uh more limitations as far as income and contribution limits. And 529 plans have come a long way. And so they're a they're a great uh opportunity to invest for college with tax-free withdrawals for education.

So I would do that. But at first, before you do that, let's put our own mask on first and get rid of this debt. And if it were me, I would just knock them out. I know it's you're going to be mad either way.

You're going to be mad you waited a decade to knock this out making a quarter million dollars a year.

>> Yeah. >> So you're you're going to be okay. You guys have done great. you've shown discipline even if you've done it out of order. You know, uh you don't get an A on the Ramsay baby steps, but you you're doing great compared to the rest of America. And so, uh I'm rooting for you.

I hope you knock this debt out one way or the other. I hope the forgiveness works out cuz you've put so much into it at this point. It's just anger inducing.

If the government decides at the final hour, nah, don't let him through.

>> Oh, it's induced some anger in me. This situation for Zach has really steamed my broccoli. >> Uhoh. And Ken hates steamed broccoli.

>> I do. Uh, you should only grill broccoli. Incidentally, >> I'll do it. Little olive oil, lemon sauce. >> I don't I don't mind roasted broccoli, but we digress. But can I just say that this is what really upsets me about the federal student loan program. And if I could just say to anybody who is considering it, if there's any way for you to avoid it, avoid it. The federal government should not be in the banking

business. And this is banking. Zach's story. You've estimated he's paid $31,000 in interest. the the principle hasn't even been touched. And the federal government did this as a favor.

This was a good idea in the late 50s and

60s when this whole thing started. And the federal government is simply playing banker to millions of Americans, a lot of young Americans who've been told for decades by the culture, the parents, we've bought into it. I haven't. You all have heard me rant about this before. That college is the only way. And what is

happening here is is this kind of situation. And fortunately in Zach's case, he's not one that's been broken by it. But it does stick in the old crawl

for me on behalf of Zach to go when I

heard you say it that way. It just really upset me. >> Math can be very upsetting.

>> Yeah. And it's all in the guys of well get your degree and we'll help you. will give you a low interest thing and it's just >> and a lot of people stay in jobs they don't want to be in in the public sector and they could move to but they they think well I got to do this for 10 years and ride it out that's a big portion of your adult life >> we ought to remove the federal student loan program it ought to go away Congress ought to get rid of it completely delete it and get rid of it I'm with you on that it's just it's sinking so many people and check out our bar future documentary it's free on YouTube it will change your mind about the entire uh further education system we've got by the way on the whole broccoli Yeah.

>> I I mentioned that. If you go back, listen to the tape. >> Did you say that? >> Yes. >> Wow. I took it like it was my own engine.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Ken Coleman. The Natalie attired.

>> My name's George. >> George Camel joins me. I was just going to say something about the baby and I couldn't get anything. >> That's all right. It's a slow news day.

>> That's exactly right. Joe is up in Massachusetts. Joe, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. How you doing today? >> We're doing well. What's going on?

>> So, my wife and I have about $240,000

worth of debt and we are struggling paying it off while balancing raising our young family and our current home where the mortgage is taking up about 50% of our income. O >> now that my wife is going to be staying home at home with the kids.

>> O, how soon is >> how soon is that happening? or has it already happened where she's uh coming home and now the paycheck's going away?

>> Uh it's going to be in June.

>> Okay. So, we have a little bit of runway. That's why I interrupted you there. Go ahead with your with your question. Okay.

>> So, the question is uh should we sell our our dream home where we want to raise our our family? Um or should we

sell it to try to get out of debt faster? That's the main question.

>> What kind of debt is the 240?

>> We have 150 of student loans.

um 40 of personal loans and another 40

of uh two cars that that we drive.

>> What are the If we take both cars, >> what are the combined car payments?

>> Um buy cars are probably about $1,000 a

month. Um 40 on them, they're probably worth about 45.

>> But do you see what I'm saying? Like I'd attack that. That's my first option.

>> That's one solvable problem. >> That's a,000 bucks a month. 12,000 a year. So, the mortgage is still too much and it's about to be way too much now that you're going to lose your wife's income. >> What is she making?

>> She makes about 20,000 part-time right now. >> Okay. So, we're not losing like the lion share of the household income, but things are only going to get tighter at this point.

>> Yes. >> What are you doing for work and what do you make?

>> Uh, I'm a PA, a physician assistant. I make about 150 my base salary. Um, and I

can make up to another hundred or so if I really grind my butt off. And do >> Are you thinking what I'm thinking? I'm thinking we really grind our butt off.

>> I was thinking about the butt grinding as well. I really was. I thought this is what you should do. >> Yep. >> You should do that if you did that. I mean, it's it's it'd be for a season.

Like, I don't want you to be doing this forever and hopefully your income goes up over time as a PA, you know? Would that change the numbers on the mortgage?

cuz I don't want to run to selling the house as like, "Yep, just go do that tomorrow." But if there's no end in sight, no light at the end of this tunnel, then it might be time.

>> Okay. >> Would you start with the cars, George, if you could? The cars are the easiest thing. That's something you can control today. You can't sell your degree. You can't sell the person alone, but you can sell these cars and make out with five grand and save some up over the next couple of paychecks and get yourself some used cars. And now add $1,000 to

the debt snowball to get rid of the rest of this stuff. Um >> because if 150 uh trying to pay off 240 with a crushing mortgage, it's going to take you a decade. But if we can make 250 and pay off 200, this is a solvable

problem. >> Uh George, run those numbers for him.

Let's assume that you're getting after it and you're going to make that additional 100 grand.

>> Uh would that get him in alignment on our um on our 25%. That would probably

be a take-home of about 14 or so grand a

month, maybe, you know, close to that.

And so then you can >> What's your mortgage payment? >> Seven or eight. >> It's 4,000 a month.

>> Okay. So the goal here with that mortgage, if you can't begin to make 15 or 16 a month takehome, that four grand a month mortgage will eventually sink you guys or at least really delay any progress financially. So that would be my my thing for you guys. Let's see what the next 12 months holds. And if we can get the household income up to about 156

take-home a month >> while paying, >> right? We want to create a little more margin. A lot more margin actually.

>> Do you think that's feasible?

>> I feel like all you're saying is like I'm going to be working a lot. >> Yeah. Like future. >> I'm already I'm already doing that um for the past two years or so.

Um, but I'm I'm ready to keep on going >> because if your wife's going to stay home, I mean, that's that's a big decision. It's one that's born out of family values. It's emotional. It's more than just financial.

It's more than math. >> But you're saying this is what she's called to do. She's going to do it.

>> Mhm. Is it worth two to three years

>> of really hustling to make that extra income >> so that you can stay in this house for you, not your wife. I want you to answer that question on your behalf, not her behalf.

>> Um, yeah, I think I think it's definitely worth it for for my family's uh stability and happiness. Um, we really enjoy where we're at. >> Great. You know what's going to be great coming out of this beyond being debtree is you're going to go, I'm never doing this again. Because you're going to work so stinking hard, you're going to teach yourself a very valuable lesson. Yes.

>> Yes. >> And do you both know that your lifestyle is about to change drastically to where you're not spending nearly as much as you have been in the past?

>> I think the alarm bell just kind of went off, so we need to sit down and have a good talk about that. And you know, part of that talk is just laying out the numbers because right now it's going to feel all emotions.

>> And so just lay out an every dollar budget. Make it very logical, unemotional. Say, "Hey, I just want to make a budget with you to show you what our finances currently look like, what they will look like." And maybe you guys find, hey, we can actually get our expenses down to 6,500 a month. And if I

can make 12 or 13 take-home, well, now that's another six grand we can throw at the debt. >> Because let me give you some hope. If you can throw 6,600 bucks a month for this debt, you're done in two and a half years if you sold these cars,

>> okay? >> And a half year later, 6 months after that, you've got the fully funded emergency fund. Now we're completely debtree. We've got the mortgage under control if we can get our income up sustainably and we have no debt.

And so now we have all this extra margin we can use to start making some real progress and not feel like, well, if you didn't stay home, we wouldn't be in the it's just going to become arguing and stress for the next several years. But if you guys both agree this is what the next 3 years looks like, are you in?

>> Okay. Yeah, that that's feasible.

>> And is she going to be on board with this?

>> Um I think uh she'll be willing to do

whatever it takes to uh stay where we are right now. >> Yeah. And do whatever it takes for her to be able to come home.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. And that's You guys have a great why right now. That baby is one of the best wise to get you through this season. And the good news is the baby won't remember what the heck happened.

>> No, >> it's just going to go cool. I have a pretty sweet life. I got mom. I got dad.

They're not stressed out. They're present. And versus what normally happens with PAs and docs and anyone in the medical field, they just lifestyle creep takes over. They're stressed out, but man, it looks good on the outside.

You got two luxury cars in the driveway.

Big, beautiful luxury home.

>> That's a great point. Real quick, a little bit more hope. Joe, how old are you?

>> I am 30. >> See, you're young. So, you've got a lot of runway in front of you from an income standpoint, don't you?

>> Yes. Yeah. >> So, so hey, you're 30. The next two or three years really tough as far as a lot of work, but man, does it set you up for the future. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> All right. That's the mindset. And listen, I'm not trying to give you a pep talk, but we are trying to inject you with a little bit of hope so that you go, "Oh, okay. tough medicine today, but

uh long term, man, I'm going to be sitting pretty.

>> Take that every dollar budget, create that vision, and go, man, by the time I'm 33, we're going to be in a different place financially. We are changing our family tree, and it's going to be a good life from 33 on. We got this. We're rooting for you, man.

[Music]

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[Music]

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All right. To Michigan is where we're going to go. And Renee is there. Renee, how can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. How are you? >> We are having a blast. What's going on with you? >> Good. Um, so I'm just wondering how I can convince my husband that we're financially stable enough to move out of our parents house even though we're still on babys too and don't have enough saved for a house down payment.

>> How long have we been staying with his parents? >> Oh, no, no, your parents. How long have you guys been living? >> My parents. Yes. Um, it's been four years. >> Like since you've been married, you've been living with your parents?

>> No, we've we've been married since 2017.

So, what happened that caused you guys to go, "Hey, we can't rent anymore. We got to move in with mom and dad." >> So, what happened was we lived um in

Northern Michigan um and our, you know, our rent was super cheap, everything was great. Um and then my parents, they were the people who watched my kids um and they moved down state and there was no way that we could financially make it living up there without their help with the children >> cuz you couldn't afford child care. You went, "Well, we'll just move in with them and they can just watch them all day while you two go off to work, >> right?" >> Okay. What do you guys make?

>> Um, so our financial situation has changed now since since then. Um, so we

are bringing home about $9,000 a month

>> for crying out loud. I mean, what is

really going on here?

>> What is his >> What's really going on is I I I don't know. He's he's scared. Um, and I totally understand why because >> when we lived up north, we were living paycheck to paycheck and we were, you know, getting help from my parents. And now that we've lived down here, we're making pro at least triple what we were making up north.

>> Yeah. And by the way, we're not going to play armchair quarterback, but you guys could have made it work before. And so this pattern is repeating itself. It does us no good to go back and run the numbers from when you lived up there, but I can tell you there there was a way.

But you're right.

has gotten real comfortable. And what strikes me is it sounds to me like you're on your last nerve and they're your parents.

>> I am on my last nerve and I just I and I don't want to, you know, because we do help with my, you know, the expenses of living in the house. It's not like we live here, right, >> rent free. I give my parents money every month. We help with we help with everything. Um, and that's worked into our budget. You know, what we contribute to my parents and really living on our own would only be probably $800 more a month.

>> Have you sat down with him and showed him an actual budget to say, "Hey, here's what rent would be. I've got three different apartment complexes or whatever you're thinking. Here's place A, place B, place C." And with all of those numbers together, we're only talking about an increase of $800 a month for us to live on our own. Have you laid that out for him? The thing is

is he doesn't um I'm the one that manages all our finances. I manage it. I manage all the credit card payments, all the car payments, the contribution, any

trips that we take. Like I manage it all. And he doesn't know what's going on. He doesn't know what's >> show him. So wait a second. Do you remember the question I just asked you?

>> Have I sat down with him? >> What's the answer to my question?

>> The answer is I've tried and he's not interested. >> What do you mean he's not interested?

He's the one that says we can't make it financially. You go, "Let me show you how we can." He goes, "No thanks." He literally goes, "No, I don't want to look at it." >> He says, "No, I don't want to look at it." You You know, you handle the finances, right? >> Okay. Okay. Listen. All right. So, so instead of and well, when a guy is this

stubborn, he has his head up his his you

know what. All right. That's all this boils down to. So, if he says to you, "I don't want to look at it. You handle it." Then guess what? Go go go put a deposit down on on an apartment today.

Say, I got us a lease. Hey babe, >> 1,500 bucks a month. Great news. Got us

an apartment. Uh it's only And by the way, he doesn't know the numbers. So go.

So just say, and by the way, this is not me telling you to be dishonest with him or cover anything up. I'm not suggesting that at all. But this is a guy who you've attempted to show him and he's he

has literally checked out of the situation. He's not an adult when it comes to the money. And so I don't know

why you got to convince a guy nor I don't know how you convince a guy who refuses to have a conversation about it.

I don't have a tip for that. Well, he doesn't care about the money. >> He's just so No, he's just so stuck on

um we're still in debt and we you know I want to go straight from my parents house into >> Are you >> a house?

>> Are we What? >> Are you still big time in debt?

>> I mean we have like $46,000 in debt. Can I can I hear the numbers? Yeah. Let's get in. What did you start with? What was your total debt balance when you guys moved in?

>> Um, probably 10 grand.

>> So, you were 10 grand in debt when you moved in. Now you're 43 grand in debt years later.

>> Mhm. >> So, this whole plan that we're going to move in with my parents to pay off debt has backfired spectacularly. And has he been a part has he been a part of acquiring the additional 36 grand in debt? >> Yes. Oh, he was on board for that. What did he go into debt for?

>> Um, so he's a aid hobbyist when it comes

to Yeah. Yeah. when it comes to his guns

and his bows and >> you know, we needed to get him. >> He's going to lose his toys if you guys go rent somewhere.

>> He's going to lose the lifestyle he's created for himself. >> He's a That's it. He's afraid of that.

That's what's going on. He's a child,

>> but honestly, you've been an accomplice to these crimes.

>> Absolutely. >> So, you've allowed it to happen. This is not like, well, it's all on him. You both have been very lacadasical in this process, making zero progress. And here's the thing, it has stunted y'all's growth financially and relationally.

>> Yeah. >> And so, moving out is not to punish him.

It's to go, I married you to leave and cleave. >> Yeah. not to move back in with my parents while we continually go into debt while you're telling me this is better for us financially.

>> So, you need to have a serious conversation sharing your feelings cuz sharing the numbers ain't working.

>> Okay.

>> And use I state you do this and you just say here's how I'm feeling based on everything that's >> What was that reaction when George said what you need to do? By the way, George is right. You kind of did the old it was a little exhale giggle. It was an exhale giggle combo.

>> What was making you What's going on there?

>> Um because >> there is every time we have that conversation, it gets turned around on me and it's and it's, you know, rather than take us collectively taking the blame for this because it's not just me.

>> That's right. >> You know, and it's not just him, it's both of us. >> Yeah. He deflects. um it it gets deflected back on me and it's my problem

and it's my job to fix it and

>> wish we could get him on the phone right now. >> Yeah, you guys are you're going to need some some counseling some >> I really I actually think that's the case and I think how would you how would

you rate your marriage right now on a scale of 1 to 10? One being suck, 10 being amazing.

Um, probably like a 5.5.

>> What would he What would he rate it?

>> Depends on the day. Probably a little bit higher. Maybe like a seven.

>> Yeah. So, we're both in denial. Okay, that's good. We're on the same page on one thing at least. >> Yeah. I I think if he Do you think he

cares about your marriage?

>> No. Absolutely. Yes.

>> Okay. >> No. Absolutely. What? Yeah. That threw me cuz boy, you said >> absolutely yes. He cares. Okay. In what way does he care? Yeah. Like like as far as actions go >> as far as actions. I mean, um, we have a

very like open and honest relationship in terms of like, you know, obviously we love each other and we love our kids and we're

we're on the same page in terms of we're willing to do whatever it may whatever it takes to make it work >> accept rent and look at a budget and stop buying toys and going to see how finances other than that crushing it.

>> So, the reason that we're poking around on this issue is because is he going to respond when you say, "Hey, this is not good. We we we've got to go see a therapist and we've got to get on the same page with this. We can't be we can't be on the same page about everything else and not on the same page about money. I'm dying here. I don't want to live with my parents.

>> And every time I bring it up to you, >> and it's not just like I don't want to live with it's it's more like my parents deserve to not have us be here.

>> You deserve not to be with your parents.

You're putting on your parents. You're still clouded a little bit. >> You know what? I'd say, "Hey, I got a place to rent. You're welcome to join me. Get ready to be an adult.

>> How old are you two?

>> Uh 33. >> If you watched a movie about a 33-year-old couple who've been living with the wife's parents for 4 years, you it'd be a comedy. Jesus saved the world by the time he was 33. You guys can go rent an apartment. You'll be okay.

>> Oh, you can't drop the deity card on her. Who can live up to that? It's >> called the Jesus Jew. It works every time. >> Wow. That that heated up quickly.

Going to have to get George and Alka-Seltzer.

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Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[Music] All

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Today's question comes from Liam in Washington. Says, "I'm 39 years old and I own 26 cars that I rent out on Turo.

About 60% of them are paid off, but I have about $200,000 worth of business car debt." I understand your view of debt, but my cars are generating income for me. A car that I have a loan on cost me 3 to 400 bucks a month, but I'm generating 900 to a,000 bucks per month on that car. Is it still a good idea to pay off all my car loans and have my business operating debtree? I am balancing between paying off my cars, saving for my company reserves, and paying myself each month.

>> Feel like we have a young Dave Ramsey, except it's cars >> instead of real estate.

>> This is exactly what this is. But here's the problem. the houses at least keep their value and appreciate. These cars are going down in value. >> It scares me to death. >> So, my fear is, he goes, I have $200,000 worth of business card debt. Guess what?

The cars might only be worth a h 100,000 at this point completely as they get destroyed by the people renting them out. >> That's right. That is correct. Yikes.

Not a good idea. >> So, you're saying, is it the right way to manage my business? So, from an entree leadership standpoint, the way that Dave Ramsey teaches business, uh, you're trying to pay down debt. You're saving for company reserves.

You're trying to pay yourself each month. Yes, all of those things must happen. You got to have the money to do the maintenance and repairs and oil changes and new tires. You got to be paying down the cars, and you have to eat.

Personally, what I would do in your shoes, I would liquidate all the cars that I'm not underwater on to do this slower. And if that reduces some income temporarily, that's fine because you're going to get your butt handed to you when you're stuck with a bunch of cars that you're underwater on. Yeah. And the income dries up and all of a sudden you're going, "Dude, I have 26 cars and they're getting repoed left and right." >> I'd be unloading those cars. Man, some stuff, George, looks so good on paper.

>> Well, I've seen the Tik Toks where they go, "Okay, so if you don't know, Turo is actually a great app where you use it by >> rent someone's car. So instead of going to a rental car company, Ken Coleman has a great car. >> Say I want to get a Jeep for the day.

>> You can go on the app and rent a Jeep and you can do it with a debit card, which I love. No hassle.

>> I like the Turo. >> But people who are using it as a business opportunity, uh I've heard the horror stories and I'm scared Liam is next up. So, if you're going to do this, I would uh be very cautious and only do it with cash so that you're never underwater and not going into debt because any any business that is run with debt is at risk.

>> Yeah. >> And if you do it with cash, it just reduces your risk and increases your peace and hopefully allows you to survive and grow. So, that's our take. I can't go back in time, but I would offload as many cars as I can and do this the right way. >> So, good, George. I can't add anything to that. So, we nailed it. >> I won't. Trinity is up in Columbus, Ohio. Trinity, how can we help?

>> Hi, it's great to speak to you guys.

>> Good to speak with you. What's going on?

>> So, I am 24 going on 25 years old and I

have no debt. I've paid it all off for

college um and working. Thank you. I'm

really proud of it. >> You should be. >> And I've come across a huge income

increase this year. >> Nice. from what to navigate

>> from 36K to 75K.

>> Trinity, let's go. Don't just roll by that. We got to celebrate that. Way to go, girl. That's fantastic.

>> Thank you. >> What? Tell us just so we have context.

What what did you go from what to what?

Uh not an income, but what was the position? What what what world are you in?

>> Yeah, so I'm in the world of like um marketing and digital content creation.

So, I started at a news station.

>> Okay. >> Um straight out of college. They don't pay anything. They basically pay pebbles and sand.

>> Exactly. But I knew that if I did my time there, >> I would have so many opportunities going forward. >> Good for you. >> So, I went from doing almost two years

there to a corporate social media

strategist position. >> Nice. >> Where my income increased to 55K and

then I just launched um a social media freelance business to add an extra $1,000 a month. Come on, trendy.

>> That's with one client right now.

>> Come on. >> And then I I got approached kind of poached essentially from that position recently. >> Nice. >> To be the social media person for a CEO

who is a multi-millionaire here in Columbus in his sales company.

>> Nice. Way to go. Okay. So, I guess you're calling to ask us how to invest all this new money. Am I right or we got something else?

>> Well, actually, it's more about because I have all of this, right? I do have a financial adviser who's helping me with the investment portfolio, but I want to be smart and I don't want to get myself into debt that's not necessary, but I want to travel the world so bad. I've wanted to ever since I was little. I have my passport, never been out of the country. >> Okay. >> I do have a plan to save up money for

travel, but >> is a travel credit card worth it or am I just going to put myself into a bad situation? What are your thoughts?

>> Let me just repeat what you said to yourself. I don't want to go. Now, you did say now that I'm now that I remember, you said, "I don't want to go into into any unnecessary debt." And so,

all of a sudden, you're calling us going, "I really want to travel the world, so it might be necessary for me to get a credit card so I can get them travel miles." Is that what I'm guessing this is about?

>> Yeah, because that's what everybody tells you, right? Like, JP Morgan, >> have you met everybody? They're broke.

Yeah. What if everybody told you it was great to sniff glue? Would you have done that?

No. >> All right. >> Let me tell you what I've heard and what you probably are about to say. I pay my

balance off every month. I've never paid a dime in interest and I fly for free.

Have you heard those things?

>> Yes. >> And that's your plan. >> And that's your game plan. It's like, well, I'm not going to go into debt. I'm not going to carry a balance. I'll just pay off the statement every month and I'll accumulate all these travel mile.

I'll got 100,000 miles that gets me to Ankeny, Iowa. I don't know where these miles actually get you. Ankenany Iowa.

>> That's where people want to go these days. >> I love that reference. I'm so in I love that reference. Didn't even know that existed. I like to go with Shboen, but you know that >> I think the people of Ankeny deserve some. >> I think they don't get enough love. So, George, tell Trinity why this is a bad idea because it makes a lot of sense on paper. Yeah. So, tell us about this travel card. What is so alluring about it?

Um it's this idea that um

you could get basically those discounts because I'm always one to thrift instead of go to the >> You are talking to thrifty. Yeah. Tell us. Tell us exactly what card it is.

>> Um it would be like the Sapphire card

with Chase. >> Chase Sapphire Reserve costs $800 a year. >> Wow. And you get like an Uber credit and like fine dining credit. So things that are like entertainment and luxury versus necessity.

>> I've seen all the >> you know >> I've seen they've sent the people have sent me these videos. So it's going to cost you 800 bucks a year. So you at least just to break even on the card with all the fees that they're charging you have to at least make $800 in rewards. >> Oh >> right. Fine print. >> And now you got to spend enough to get the miles which are not actual, you know, travel miles. It's not like you're going 100 miles and you need 100 miles.

It's this random number they make up which they can devalue at any time.

>> Be gentle, George. >> Right. I'm making sure I understand it like you tell me if it's not correct.

So, is it a like a dollar gets you a mile or what's the what's the tradeoff?

>> About that essentially.

>> Okay. So, let's say 50 grand >> financial advisor. Yeah.

>> 50 grand gets you 50,000 miles

>> thereabouts. Yeah. I think it might be one or one and a half times, but yeah, right. Right on the money. >> Okay. So, that essentially gets you would that be like a roundtrip flight?

Maybe two >> or hotel. Yeah. >> Or hotel >> essentially. >> Okay. So, if you actually looked at the um the value of that flight, if you had just booked it yourself, you went on Google flights and just found an affordable flight on a decent airline,

could you find one that's 700 bucks total round trip?

>> Might be kind of hard if I'm going out of the country. Well, if you're going out of country, you need like a million miles. >> So, here's and what I'm trying to get at is it is not worth playing this game when you are already so successful. Only broke people have to play this game to try to make videos about how they >> How do you travel the world without a Miles credit card?

>> You just use a debit card and there's rewards programs. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. But how do you accumulate the money to travel?

How do you do that? >> Just work. I guess I just show up at work and they pay me. And so, I encourage you to try that.

Just do a budget. Have a travel fund. Make it a thousand bucks a month if you want and then book your travel at at the best price you can find instead of being stuck with what the credit card companies allow you to book. >> And you're Captain Thrifty.

I am Captain Thrifty. Thank you for that.

[Music]

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[Music]

All

right. When you are tackling debt or

trying to build wealth, one of the things we can tend to do is forget about one important step to reaching those goals, and that's insurance, coverage, protection, right? And uh sometimes you have too little, sometimes too much. And either one of those can impact your goals, your progress. And uh skimping on

insurance might seem like you're saving a buck or two, but when life actually hits you, you don't want to fall back into debt or at least be tempted to do so. So, the right insurance, think of it of as a shield uh around your family and

your bank account. So, how do you know if you have the right coverage? We've got the answer. It's called the coverage checkup. It's a free online resource.

that creates a personalized insurance action plan that's unique to you and your situation. Go to ramseysolutions.com/checkup.

Ramseyolutions.com/checkup and you can take the checkup.

>> Uh or you can click the link in the description of our show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. So, >> speaking of uh >> speaking of protecting yourself, Ken, this is big news. I want to hit some breaking news. >> Well, there was a big data breach and I want to give people some practical steps here.

one of the nation's top three credit bureaus, TransUnion, exposed more than 4.4 million Americans personal info when a third party vendor got hacked. So these names, addresses, social security numbers. So I'm not here to alarm you, but I want to give you some practical steps and they're things that I have done. So first, freeze your credit with all three bureaus so that no one can open fake accounts in your name or go into debt using your name.

Second, watch your bank accounts like a hawk. If you see something that looks off, call your bank immediately. And lastly, get identity theft protection.

Uh because this won't be the last breach. So, head to ramseyolutions.com

theft if you want to learn more and the folks that we trust or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. >> Wow, it feels like we get more and more of those alerts. It never stops.

>> Yeah, >> evil never takes a day off.

>> Yeah, >> that's what I always say. I'm Batman. Got to love those cyber security folks.

Everyday heroes. Uh, all right. Let's go to Canada and Andy is waiting for us.

Andy, how can we help today?

>> Hi guys. So, uh, my wife and I about two years ago started a chocolate shop and,

uh, the build cost way more than we expected. So, the business took on about, uh, $150,000 of debt. And sort of

as a part of that uh we have profit this

past year um of about 99,000

and I'm trying to figure out how best to spend the money in terms of like growing the business and paying off our debt

debt service of that 99 is about 48,000.

It's quite a bit. And then um growing

the business, which um what we want to do is buy some chocoliering equipment cuz right now we have nothing and it's all done by hand and that's backbreaking. It's it's literally killing us and I don't think we can keep it up for >> You and your wife are making all the chocolate by hand.

>> That's correct. It's all by hand.

>> And did I hear you say >> one other employee with us?

>> Wow. And and the profit then the uh was

it 99,000 in profit? Did I write that down right? >> Yeah, that's correct. >> Um is that is that gross or net?

>> Uh I suppose that's gross.

>> So what are you guys paying yourselves? >> Yeah, that's what I'm trying to get at here. >> So we're getting about 60,000.

>> And that includes your employee, the one other person. Uh, no. They're getting about 40.

>> Wow. So, we're actually

if if it's gross 99 and you're paying 100, you're not profitable.

>> Oh, sorry. I I guess it's net.

>> Okay. So, you're saying after you pay 60 to your housees? >> So, this is after all expenses, including the debt service >> plus paying you, your wife, the one other person, then we have 99 left over.

That's right. >> Is that sitting in like a savings account right now?

>> Uh, so right now we've spent most of

that because we had a pretty rough year.

Um, chocolate prices have increased like crazy. They've gone up about 300%. We're doing our best not to pass that on to customers. >> Where's that coming from? What's what's driving the cost of chocolate up 300%.

I'm curious. >> Oh, it's a few things really. So, there's been crop failures in different parts of the world. Um there's been disease blight and stuff like that. Uh chocolate >> ever more popular. So there's supply and demand problems. And then uh you know

with failing crops, people are looking at using disease resistant strains.

>> Gotcha. >> And yeah, that like those sort of impact the quality of the chocolate we get and we use the best in the world. So by that stuff >> 99,000. Do we have that sitting in an account?

Did I because George asked you then you said you spent it but you started off the call saying how do I spend that money? I want to be wise with it. >> Well, this is this is sort of like the next year that's coming. Uh sort of projected.

We've spent most of that.

and that's just sitting as cash. Uh some of it is going to be coming back to us because we um our AC went out and so we

were closed for about a month. So, our insurance is covering some of that. So, we're going to get um you know around 30 40,000 from that. I >> All right, let's talk about the equipment because there's a temptation to scale obviously and that's I'm glad you guys are doing well and you're talking about the chocolier. Am I saying this right? Chocoliering equipment.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, >> I'm going to go home and tell my wife today that I talked to a chocolier. It makes me sound I think pretty pretty fancy. So, what equipment do we got?

>> I I think so. uh what what's the base

amount like what's the smallest amount of equipment that um that you would need and it would

help you uh generate more profit? What

what's this? Have you run the numbers on we could spend this uh and we could spend you see what I'm saying? There's a temptation to go all in. >> It's a little it's a little tricky. um

we can buy a couple of smaller items that would just kind of help us out with some of the stages to make it a little less labor intensive. Great.

>> But the main steps to actually, you

know, temper chocolate and have it like on hand. >> Each of those machines is between like 20 and 60K and we temper around, you

know, 12 different types of chocolate.

Imagine the expense that would be.

>> I get it. But and and I don't know anything about the business. So, please forgive my ignorance, but I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to help you think through the impulse here because the number one challenge of entrepreneurs is the impulse to grow.

And you can really make a compelling case like you just did to George and I. >> Usually, they say, "Well, we could triple our profits if we got a $60,000 machine." >> But let's go to that first step before you went to but we want to temper. All right.

Okay. So, what would that amount be for that small amount of equipment that would help with manpower and less hours, which is good for you? >> Probably around 70 grand.

>> I thought that was a small amount. So, it's not a >> You were saying you needed you needed 12 of these machines that cost 20 to 60K.

That's the ideal scenario. So yeah, the ideal scenario is 12 machines that cost probably the 60k and then other perolous

machines that cost like 20 grand each.

>> What can you what can you spend in the 10 to 15 grand? I'm making this up, but I'm also trying to help you think. What can you spend in the 10 to 15 grand range? 20 max. Max. I'm thinking 10 to

15 that would make your life easier.

There's there's one machine that we could get that's about in that price range. It doesn't temper that that pipes the the ganaches and

stuff into the chocolate and that saves a few hours of labor.

>> Okay. So, is that we could cash flow

that we could pay cash for that.

Correct. >> Yeah, that's right. >> And it would save time and that would make life better. And your it's not like you guys are doing well now. It's not like your audience is, excuse me, your your customers are yelling for more uh tempering and we'd like more machines.

You know, you're winning right now. Yes or no? >> Yeah, I'd say we're doing really well.

The business has been a huge success since we opened about 11 months ago. So, it's going really well. >> So, so Andy, I guess what I'm preaching here is is patience >> because I I feel you.

>> You called us and we're going to tell you not to go into debt. We're going to tell you, I'm going to give it to George really quick. George, what does he do with that uh money that's coming in extra, those retained earnings, >> you're going to have to figure out how to live on less and use all the profits you can, which you need to increase by also increasing your costs. That's part of it.

You need to explain to customers, hey, chocolate went up, >> cocoa beans are up 300%. We are trying our best to keep our prices down, but we had to increase by this much in order to stay in business. If I'm the customer, I appreciate the honesty. I understand and I'm willing to pay for your best chocolate in the world.

Let's attack that debt, man, before we go scale this thing up with cash. >> You guys are going to win big, but be patient. >> Send us some chocolate if you could. That'd be nice.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman, George Camel alongside. Excited to be here for you all. Carolyn is going to be up next in Atlanta, Georgia.

Carolyn, how can we help today?

>> Yeah. Hey guys, how are you?

>> We're having too much fun, I think, today. How are you? >> Well, there you go. I'm doing well.

>> Good. >> Um, so my question is a little

backstory. So, I went through a divorce about three and a half years ago. I am

56 years old and I basically had to

start over. >> Oh. >> So, nothing saved retirement. That's a whole that's there's a reason. So, at any rate, I'm starting over. Mhm.

>> And I do have um about 65,000 in

investments, about 25 in a traditional

IRA, and I do have $3,000 in a savings

um in the bank. >> Okay. >> So, my question, and then I am contributing to my 401k at work, 6%. So, I have I I' I've started doing that. My

question is the only debt I have is a

car payment and my mortgage. I have absolutely no other debt.

>> So my I owe about

20 a little over $20,000 on my car.

>> Okay. And um unfortunately my father had passed away a couple years ago and I was left with a

well his IRA which is now a beneficiary IRA. >> Mh. >> So I have eight years to withdraw that money. So, I'm wondering, should I

withdraw the money, start slowly withdrawing the money and put it in a Roth IRA to help me in retirement and keep, you know, picking away at paying

off my car or should I take a chunk out of that and pay my car off and be done with it? >> What is your income? >> I mean, my income I bring in about 4500

a month >> net.

Yes, that's what I'm that's what's getting into my bank account >> coming home. Okay, gotcha. >> And that's after your 6% investing and taxes and healthcare and all that.

>> Okay. Yes. >> And what's what's in that beneficiary IRA? How much is left in there?

>> There's about 98,000.

>> Oh, sweet deal. Okay.

>> Nice. That's good news. >> So, pay it off today. Y >> that still leaves you with like 80 grand in there, >> right? >> And then you can use that. You're free freeing up your car payment as well.

>> What's the car? What's the car payment?

The car payment is right is like $4.90.

>> Oh my gosh. If you do it, you hear what George just said? I think that flew right by you a little too quickly. Like pay off the car today.

>> Okay. >> Cuz that's robbing your ability to invest. >> I'm getting more interest. I was like, I'm getting more interest. So, I just wasn't sure about I want to be done with debt. >> Maybe. Well, here's the thing. We don't know what the market's going to do tomorrow. But we do know that paying off your car has a has a forced interest rate and a big raise.

Yes. >> And I would also withdraw enough to cover your savings account because right now you are you're one HVAC dying away from going into debt again.

>> I love that. What would three to six month what what would you uh George in her case knowing her numbers? You want to you want to see three, four, five, six or leave it up to her? >> Well, you're the single now and so that puts you more at risk than having you know two incomes. So I would lean towards six especially at your age.

>> Yeah, >> I like that. >> I feel more comfortable with six. That was kind of my goal to try and get up to six. >> So, what is uh 6 months of your expenses?

>> Well, I mean 4 * 6 24. I mean, I think I would be comfortable with 25,000 just to

>> So, out of the 98, >> let's pull out 20. >> We just put in a >> Okay, go ahead. >> Just pull out 20 to pay off the car.

Pull out another 25 to get your emergency fun. Really two cuz you already have 3,000 in savings. And that will still leave you with 56K that you need to withdraw over the next eight years. And so I would withdraw that equal amount so that it kind of runs out over time and move that over to that Roth IRA.

>> Okay? >> Cuz now think about it. You are you were investing 6% and you had a car payment.

Now with a fully funded emergency fund and no debt, we can jack up our investing to 15%.

>> Correct. >> And now we can make up for some lost time. And once the house is paid off, you can invest even more. So, what's left on the mortgage?

>> Uh, about 122.

>> Oh, wow. Amazing. This is actually for someone who had to start all over. Caroline, I just want you to know we think you're sitting really pretty. Cuz don't make me get George to get his investment calculator out. >> I'll do it cuz you're 56 years young is the way I see it.

>> Well, thank you. >> Yeah. So, imagine you put, let's say, 20K toward the house a year. Well, by the time you're 62, this house has paid off completely while you've been investing 15%.

>> On top of what you have now.

>> Yeah. And I did just buy the house two years ago. >> Okay. >> Great. Well, you didn't buy too much house. It sounds like everything was very reasonable after you went through a lot of life. >> I I was I mean I was what I just took every what we made on the house when we sold it and I put a lot chunk down.

>> Nice. What's your house worth on the market right now?

500. >> Come on. Way to go.

>> Fantastic.

>> So, now you're going to have a half a million dollar house. It's going to be worth more than that by the time you're 62. >> You're going to be in good shape. All right, George. What about her catching up on her uh investing?

>> That will happen over time. As you get rid of all this debt and pay off the mortgage, you'll go from that 15% to 25%

30% and hopefully your income goes up over time as well. And so I have I'm not worried about you catching up on all this, especially once you have a paid for house, your investments will double about every seven years based on what the market's been doing. So if you have a h 100,000 invested now, which you're pretty close to that based on what you've laid out, if not more, then you'd have 200 if you did nothing. If you'd invested zero dollars more, and then seven years from there, you'd have 400.

And so you'll likely get close to that million dollar mark by the time you're 67.

>> Okay? And I do have I only have one kid on the payroll. I have one in college, but she graduates this year.

>> Come on, mama. That's a big deal. That's kind of nice. That's another pay raise.

>> Yes. I'm hoping. I'm hoping.

>> What do you mean hope? You get to determine that. Hey, fly.

>> That's true. That's the hard thing. But yeah, so I've got I've got Yes. Uh two that are on their own and I have one the last one's a senior. So if I can Yeah.

get her off the payroll. >> What is your gross income per year?

What's your salary?

>> Well, I Okay, one thing I didn't So, I just got a raise. I only make 53,000 a year, but

I also have a I have a um Oh, what is it

called?

>> A side business. >> I think is what it's called. No, a um

>> Give us a clue. Give us a clue. This is kind of fun. >> I need to write it down.

um where my dad had put in investments

for charity a charity trust a charitable trust >> and since he passed his wife so I my

sisters and we kind of split his portion of it so that's approximately that's approximately 700 a month >> that adds to your income >> correct so that's where that 4500 that's part of that income until it's gone >> I mean one day it will be gone I don't know you know right >> um So, >> I was just trying to crunch some numbers for you to give you some hope that you will catch up cuz you're you said you are 56.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And what what age would you like to be able to retire?

>> Not soon enough. >> You're ready. Well, let's >> Well, that's not a reality. If you're catching up, you're going to, you know, let's say 68, 69, that'll still give you

about 660 grand if you're just investing 700 bucks a month consistently. Plus, remember, you're going to be investing even more once. >> And that doesn't include the paid for house, which is going to be worth over half a million. So, >> so you will be a baby steps millionaire uh retiring with dignity if I have anything to do with it. So, >> and you you haven't you haven't you haven't sworn love off, have you? The rest of your life.

>> No. Go find you.

>> I'm not there. >> Go find you a debt-free man. And this picture gets even better.

>> It does. It will one day. I hope

>> it will. We believe. We believe.

[Music]

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Caitlyn is up in North Carolina.

Caitlyn, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I am 28. I have um almost no

debt. I have no credit card debt. I have

six more payments left on my car.

>> Okay. >> Um, so that's about to be paid off. I

bought land about two years ago. I owe 60 grand on that and that is the only debt that I'm in. Um, >> how much how much dirt?

>> Um, it is 19 acres.

>> 19 acres. Okay. You plan to build on that, live on that. What's the story?

>> Yes. Yes. I I plan to pay it down. I'm

not in a rush right now. Um so I'm throwing all the money at it. Um pay it off and then get a loan and put a home on it. >> Okay. What is your income?

>> I'm sorry. Can I say that one more time? >> What is your income?

>> Um I make about 80 grand a year.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Okay. So, over time, I have built up an emergency savings, and I have about 45 grand in

cash. Um, and I I feel like I'm doing

well financially at this point, but I don't really know how to spend that cash. >> What Where is the Well, when you say cash, is this in the bank or are we saying cash like laying around somewhere?

>> No, like it's it's in a gun safe.

>> Okay. I I started with an emergency fund and then I just kept adding to it.

>> Why is it not in a savings account?

>> Well, cuz I've always been told I needed to have cash on hand and then some in the bank and that's that's how I grew up. But now I've got >> They just didn't tell you how much, so you just went overboard.

>> Okay, that helps. >> 45 grand in a gun safe. I mean, there's

cash on hand and that's like I don't even know how you describe that. Are there also guns in there?

>> I'm going to say yes. >> Okay. I'm just Is this like a a paranoia? Hey, if it all goes down, I'm going to be ready with a suitcase of cash in my gun. Like that's I'm trying to figure out where this is coming from if it's from a place of legitimate fear,

you know, illegitimate fear, cuz I would be taking most of that and parking it in a high yield savings account. Yes.

>> Because there is much more risk that your money is eaten away by inflation than there is of a bank collaps. have a rule of thumb, George, on actual cash in your home. >> You know, someone asked me this yesterday and I said, "Hey, I think $1,000 cash is plenty." >> That's what I was thinking. >> Now, if you have a good reason to have more than that, $2,000, 3,000, but $45,000, I think we could all agree, is a wild amount to have in cash.

>> At least be burying that in the backyard. Maybe >> we've taken that call. 120 grand buried in tin cans in the backyard. >> We actually gentleman in Texas, he'll never forget it. >> Yeah. I'm joking, by the way, for anybody who doesn't understand sarcasm.

Don't bury your money in the backyard.

>> But with a high yield savings account, at least you're keeping up with inflation, cuz $45,000 20 years from now won't buy you $45,000 worth of goods. >> Mhm. >> And so I would at least try to keep up with inflation in a high yield savings account with, let's say, 40. Maybe you start there and you start to put a little bit more in over time.

But there's really no good reason, unless you can tell me why you need that much cash on hand at all times.

You can transfer money. It's and there's, you know, you got FDIC insurance in the bank. So, there are more protections you have in the bank than you do with a gun safe at home.

It's your word against anyone else's that that money was there.

>> Okay. Yeah. I really don't have a good reason why it's there. I've just always heard and have a safety net in both places. >> What's left on the car loan?

>> I'm sorry. >> What's the balance left on the car loan?

Um, it's under three grand.

>> Oh. >> Oh my gosh. >> Why don't you just go take three grand in cash and go down and pay off the loan? Why even stick with six more payments to deal with that?

>> Well, I figured it was helping me with my credit. >> Oh, no. Okay, we'll get you a book for that. Uh, why do you need credit at this point in the game?

>> In preparation to buy a house.

>> But you have a land loan that you're making payments on, right?

Yes, >> that'll keep up that'll keep up your credit score just fine. >> That's going to get you all you need. >> Keeping the car loan is not going to do you any favors. I would get rid of it.

It's one less thing living in your hand your head rentree. You're doing so well.

There's really no reason to carry this.

And then on top of that, you could be using some of this cash to even pay down the land loan. >> Yeah, I don't think you need 45. What are your monthly expenses right now to run everything in your house, pay all your bills?

>> Um, probably about 700. You can live off

$700 a month. Your land loan is more than that.

>> No, it's not. My My land loan is only 520 a month.

>> Do you have utilities? >> And that's that's part of it. >> Food. >> Um >> insurance. >> What's your rent, phone, internet? I

I will say I am currently living with my

boyfriend >> and we have an agreement that if my name is not on the house or anything where I

could get equity if something were to happen that I don't pay a bill and so I

don't have um any expenses in that.

>> You're just living with the boyfriend rentree.

>> Yes. >> Well, how long is that supposed to last?

Well, and until he decides it's time to

get married, and then I don't mind, you know. Um, >> how long have you all been living together? >> The road.

>> Um, about six months.

>> Okay. How long you How you How long you guys been together as a couple?

>> Under a year. >> Okay. This is very new. You just jumped on in. >> Yeah. Hello. >> You said, "Hey, rent free. I'll take >> Well, why wouldn't she? This guy gave her such a deal. It's hard to refuse that one." So, you're paying for groceries and insurance and the land loan and a car payment. Your expenses are more than $700. Let's be honest.

>> Um, >> even with him paying the rent.

>> Okay. I would keep an emergency fund of 15 grand.

>> Now, I know this is his gun safe. You got your money in his gun safe.

>> That's That's his house. You got that money parked on >> I moved in. >> Oh, you moved your gun safe in. Why not?

Boy, I tell you, you are in charge.

You're not paying a nickel of rent until he puts a ring on it. >> There's one reason to put it in a bank because right now it's on his property that he legally owns.

And if I don't know, I'm just I'm makes me nervous. It's all >> I got to tell you. I I the big brother role. I'm very uncomfortable with this situation. >> You You need Yeah. So, first of all,

let's get back to the thing that's most pertinent. You 45,000 needs to go in the bank. Number one. Number two, uh George, what what do we think? She's probably $1,000. So pay off 6 months. So 6,000 is

6 months emergency fund for you.

>> Yeah. And I would keep >> that in a real situation. >> Yeah. If your life changes at all.

>> If he dumps if he dumps you, you and your cash are moving out.

>> Or if you dump him, I feel like it's probably more of that than the other way around, right? Like let's be honest, if anybody's dumping somebody, it's you dumping him. Isn't that right?

>> We'll see. >> Does he have $45,000 saved?

No, he does not. >> There we go. Does this guy have debt?

>> Um, yes, he does. >> Oh, boy. >> Oh, boy. Does he know the uh the code to the safe?

>> No. >> He has his own safe. I have my own safe.

>> Isn't hers? That's romantic. That's how we like it. That's fun. All right.

>> Well, we're cheering you on. I would get rid of the debt. I would park the money in a high yield savings. Keep enough for an emergency fund. Any money beyond that now becomes let's pay down this land loan while trying to save up for the house. I would probably just attack the land loan. Once that's done, then take out the loan and make sure it's no more than 25% of your take-home pay.

>> That would be the the wise way to do it so that you don't buy too much house because you can get a little carried away with a land loan going, "Well, they they gave me the bank said they'll give me $500,000 for a mortgage. Doesn't mean you should take that." >> Yep. And um you didn't call for relationship advice, but it's your lucky day because I'm giving it. You've been together for a year, living together six months.

>> If this guy doesn't show some type of, you know, desire to put a ring on it and start talking about marrying you, I wouldn't keep living with him.

>> This will turn into two years and all this. It's just a weird situation.

>> When people move in together before marriage, it's well, we've been together for nine years now and he still hasn't put a ring on it, >> right? I got news flash for you ladies.

He ain't going to. He's not going to.

He's got a good situation without the commitment. So, I don't like it. Make

him commit. >> That's Uncle Ken for you. He's going to Uncle Ken. That's what he does. >> I'm going to do it.

[Music]

Hey, if you're enjoying the program, you can help us grow. And we are growing and we're so grateful. But hey, here's how you do it. like, subscribe, and share,

share, share uh on whatever platform you're doing. That helps us grow. You guys are the greatest marketing program of all time. So, if it's helping you, uh we'd love for you to help us get in front of more people so we can help more people. Haley is up right here in our backyard, Nashville, Tennessee. Haley, how can we help?

So my question is how do you break out of the working essentially hustle cycle

once you get to a place of comfort I

guess is >> the best way to say it. >> It's a great question. So am I to understand like you've done the baby steps, you've won big time and now it's like how do I get out of that gazelle intensity and actually smell the coffee a bit? Huh? >> Yeah, kind of. I can give you a little more background. >> Yeah, give us a little bit.

>> So I'm a single 30-year-old female. A

couple years ago, I started realizing that I needed to do more for my future to like get ahead. So, I came to the conclusion that I needed to up my income. >> Okay. >> Um, so I moved jobs and the job where I'm at currently, my regular hours, I gross about 80k a year.

>> Um, but I have the ability to work lots of overtime. >> Okay? >> And so, the last couple years I've been able to make >> between 200 to 250k. Come on.

>> Way to go, Haley.

>> Yeah. Working though, 90 to 100 hours a week. >> Oh, you got to stop.

>> And >> seriously, >> yeah. Easier said than done.

>> You've been at this pace for how long?

>> Uh, probably about three years.

>> But that was to get through the baby steps. >> Um, honestly, the B So, I I didn't

graduate with any student loan debt or anything. I really didn't have any debt.

I just really wanted to pay off my house and build my retirement.

>> Good for you. >> With the hope of being able to retire, you know, in the in the future sooner

than 65 or whatever.

>> Okay. So, tell us where you are. Did you pay the house off? >> Yep. I paid off uh my $300,000 house.

>> Way to go. How much you got in retirement? >> I got I built up my investment accounts totaling around 250,000.

>> Fantastic. have a really good emergency fund. How much I track?

>> Oh, probably like $60,000.

>> Yeah. This is screaming. There's another reason why you're working those hours.

>> Yeah. >> What is the real real? Come on. You called us. I don't No judgment.

>> I don't know. >> Yeah, you do. >> I I think there's just like like I grew up in a home where there was no money. >> There we go. Come on. It's safe, Haley.

You're safe here.

Yeah. So, just a lot of anxiety with that. >> Yeah, there it is. And that's okay. And

I I think today's call might be a big step in the right direction just to say it in front of a lot of people. Say it to us, these two strange dudes. I grew up in a home where there was nothing.

And it was painful to watch. It wasn't just painful to watch for your parents.

It probably was painful for you.

And somewhere along the way, young Haley

made a decision. You may not even remember it. Maybe you do remember the day, but whether you remember doing it or not, you said, "This is never going

to be my life." And it became a statement of conviction. Because it takes conviction, I mean soul

deep passion to work 90 to 100 hours a week.

Am I right, George?

like that's not grit. There's something deeper and you just shared it with us.

>> Well, at that point you you are you were running from trauma instead of running towards peace and freedom. And I think it's time to make that shift to go >> we're okay now. >> We're going to be fine. You're only 30 years old and you are light years ahead of probably anybody in your family or even in your circles.

>> Okay, real fun. Real real quick. I want George to do this. George is the master. George, would you pull up your investment calculator here? >> Oh, this is fun. She's got 200 grand in

her retirement accounts or in her investment accounts at the age of 30. Uh

this may be a moot point, Haley, because part of me thinks you've run this exercise, but George.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> She's done the math. >> I I I halfway through I realized like I forgot who I was talking to right now.

Haley knows. So you actually know without putting him on the spot then you know how much money that's going to turn into over the next 20, 30 years. Yes.

>> Yeah. Oh yeah. Is that enough?

>> No. No. Let me let me rephrase. Let me rephrase. >> Is it enough to never be in the situation that you saw your parents in?

>> I I feel like yes, but then a part of me is like, well, what if something

happens? Okay, play that. So then it just kind of what would be what would be a thing that would do that to you?

>> Do you think the stock market goes to zero?

Like I know logically that it doesn't because you know we've seen the returns.

It's you know >> think about what that would mean. It would mean every company in America goes bankrupt. >> At which point we have bigger problems than reliving childhood trauma.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Like >> that's like that's probably when there's nobody alive but the cockroaches. So what are we worried about? Like we all have bigger problems at that point than well I'm back to the situation that I grew up in. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And logically I I can

understand that. It's just the like

>> it was real for you.

>> Yeah. Is is hard cuz it's like they like

they'll offer you the work and so it's hard to say no because I know how much value of >> one of those shifts is, >> right? >> And so it's just it's hard to >> What are the chances, Haley, that you do something bone jarringly stupid with money? What are the chances on a scale of zero to 100 that you would do something stupid with money?

>> Probably zero. >> It's like, yeah. So, >> negative zero. >> Um, have you sat with a professional to talk about all that trauma around money and probably a lot of other junk?

>> Probably not as much as I should have.

>> Can you? >> Yeah. >> Can I tell you something?

>> Mhm. Um, I had danced around therapy,

done a little bit here and there for years, and I was masking stuff, and I was literally trying to just hold it all in. And I finally got to a point over a year ago where I realized that I was turning into an angry person due to

several factors. And I realized that I was unable to to handle it. I couldn't I

couldn't manage it anymore. And it's really really hard to admit that. But can I tell you and and because I want you to hear me that I think that you can

get freedom from this. I really do. I I actually think a professional will help you go back into the past, see it all

from every angle, understand what happened to you, and out of that, you get the tools to be able to go, "Oh, I won't be victim to this fear around money anymore, which will then allow me to live a normal life and work 40 hours and go on vacation and do something fun

and give some of that money away because I'm talking to somebody who's got a huge heart." Do you hear that heart on her, Joy? Absolutely. Yeah. What I'm hearing too is you you just got a flat tire.

You are so good at saving and hoarding and investing and we need to increase the spending. We need to increase the generosity and it's going to unlock so much and I think take the pressure out of this like well I could be saving that. I could be taking that shift instead. It's going to turn into that'll be a fun experience.

Let me invite some friends to that trip. I'll cover it. Hey let me go give to this thing I'm passionate about. Let me go volunteer for fun in the free time instead of taking that extra shift.

And if you force yourself to do that with a budget, over time, you'll create those new habits and you'll drop the old ones and you'll drop the mentality of everything needs to be about a dollar amount and what it could be, what it could turn into. So good.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Oh, yeah. She probably carries a membership card.

>> Yeah. Maybe intentionally or unintentionally. And here's what I found. They get there and the goalpost shifts.

And instead of, well, I have 3 million, but I don't know if it's enough. I think I need five now. And then 10 years from now, it goes, well, I think I need 10 now because what if? And the other thing that happens is when you stop working and doing something that you enjoy, it turns into boredom after the fun >> wears off.

That boredom turns into depression and then you're going to seek purpose for fulfillment. >> So I would leaprog all of that and just go to the seek purpose for fulfillment part.

>> Not not tons. >> Okay, I want you to answer this really quickly. Okay. If I was paying for it and I said, "You get to take three or four girlfriends for a fun weekend." What would you do? Give me Give me an answer.

>> Well, I'm I am taking a trip. I'm going to Maine with my college roommates.

>> Okay, great. My point is >> in a couple weeks. >> That's That's your new homework assignment. One thing a month within a budget so that we until you get that therapy and start to learn how to not be afraid of money. Uh, I think you need to learn to do something fun. Buy somebody's food in the drive-thru behind you. Little acts of giving, little acts

of fun that are very intentional. You're going to feel safe doing it. >> You've invested in your 401k. Time to invest in yourself. Haley, you got this.

[Music]

Our [Music]

scripture of the day comes from Jeremiah 26:14. As for me, I am in your hands. Do

with me whatever you think is good and right. And our quote today from George Bernard Shaw. Both optimists and pessimists contribute to society. The optimist invents the aeroplane. The pessimist, the parachute. Oh, I like that.

>> It's a dare I say, overly simplistic

philosophy there. I could pull that one apart. Not sure I completely agree with that quote. >> Just let it be a tweet. Just be, you know, >> well, I thought it was safe because he's no longer with us. He's not going to reach out to me on social media. I see the truth in what he's saying. Yeah, >> but a little overly simple. >> Ken is anti-pessimist. I'll tell you that much. >> That is a fact. Don't like to hang out with pessimists. Dustin is in Nevada.

Nevada. Nevada. >> Uh, I know it's Nevada, but my heart says Nevada. >> I My brain says Nevada. I'm going to correct it to Nevada cuz I recently met somebody and they really poignantly told me. Ken, it's Nevada. So, there we go.

>> It just sounds too Midwestern. And it's not in the Midwest. >> I feel like I'm screwing it up, too. >> From Nevada. >> Yeah. Dustin, how can we help?

>> Yeah. And you're right. It is Nevada.

You say that out here, you're bound to get stoned. I know. I know. I caught a

little heat from somebody here that came to our offices and told me, "You're saying it all wrong, Ken. Uh, boy, it really damaged my ego for a while, but I got over it." How can we help you?

>> Uh, yeah. Um, so I've been listening to to your guys' show for uh three months.

It's been uh very eye opening and uh I'm

uh eager to get on the debtree bandwagon

and uh I do have a ways to go. Um, so

what's going on is that I'm contemplating uh selling my h selling my house and downsizing uh to pay off some of my debts. Uh my parents are kind of saying, you know, stay where you are.

Stay where you are. You won't be able to get another house like this or >> or or or build on build on our place. We got plenty of land and or buy a duplex.

And I >> All right. I'll tell you what. Why don't you run the numbers because we know what you're considering. Should I sell my house to pay off debt? Walk us through your debt.

>> Uh, so I have a credit card de debt,

which I've tackled, is um $3,000. Um,

let me see. Uh, student loan debt, $20,000. Uh, medical debt, uh, it's kind

of been been on the rise. Uh, $5,000.

Uh, let me see what else. Um my uh my uh

yearly income is uh uh 50,000. Uh I do

have a side hustle that I'm doing uh to you know pay off some of those debts. >> How much does your side hustle? How much does your side hustle generate?

>> Uh not that much but uh I think about

like 7 $10,000 a year maybe.

>> Okay. Is that all the debt?

Uh yeah, that's all all the debt >> and the income you gave us, that's not take-home, that's gross.

>> Um >> 50K, is that gross or net? Bringing home? >> Uh I would say that it's uh Sorry, I

feel so stupid. Uh >> no, no, it's it's totally okay. After taxes, >> I apologize. Yes. What are you bringing home after taxes? What are you putting in the bank account?

Oh, after taxes, I think it's about 40.

>> Okay, gotcha. So, so 40k take-home.

>> What's your mortgage and the mortgage payment?

>> Uh, mortgage payment is uh $1,623.

Uh, the mortgage uh amount on the house is uh 196,000.

>> What's it worth? >> Uh, the I got it recently appraised.

It's uh worth uh between 348 to 370.

>> All right, George. What do you think? >> 350. >> What do you think, George? >> Well, here's what's happening. Your mortgage is about almost half your take-home pay. And so, you're feeling the >> 40%. Yeah. >> So, the question is always, is the mortgage the problem or is the debt the problem? And looking at this, you could clean up the debt and you might still be stressed out trying to make this mortgage payment every month.

>> Exactly. So, the question I have is, is there room for your income to grow in the foreseeable future?

>> Uh, and will you get married to go back to school? >> Uh, not again. No, I'm I'm a single parent. So, yeah, >> it's not in the picture.

>> No, I I got hurt hurt and burned pretty badly. So, >> I'm so sorry about that. >> I'm I'm just Well, at least not while I'm at least not while I I'm raising my kiddo. My goal is to just raise my kid to 18. Then I'll go back into the dating game. >> How old are you?

>> Uh 31. >> How old is your kid?

>> Uh he's uh uh 8 years old.

>> Okay. >> Um but he he has autism and so a lot of

my time is you know blessed to you know.

>> Is that why you feel somewhat limited on the income uh professional ladder question that George posed?

because you immediately went to no, I can't really make more money because I'd have to go back to school. And I do want to lean into that for just a moment to see if that's in fact true or a limiting belief. So, what do you do for a living?

>> Um, well, I'm a procure I'm a procurement specialist for an an industrial supply company. >> Okay. And what is what does a move up the ladder look like? Are there a couple rungs of a ladder above your position in your current company?

Um, next level would probably be like a

super uh supervisor. Um, but all other positions would require me to relocate to the East Coast and I can't do that.

>> I totally get that. So, what would it take to get the supervisor role and how much would that pay?

>> Um, it would require me to probably get

a bachelor's degree in in business. Um,

>> I doubt that. I would challenge that.

>> You should at least look into that. >> You're you're probably right. Uh uh >> here's my point, Dustin. The fact that you're And listen, it sounded even when I say that, I know sometimes I feel like, well, that was a little bold, Ken.

But I mean, you got to look into it. And when you go, I think it would require a bachelor. I'm like, I don't know. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But you owe it to yourself and your child

to look into it because where we are, if

we've got a rung on the ladder that we can get to through good work and raising our hands saying, "Hey, I'd like to do this." Uh, and it doesn't require additional schooling. And let's say it pays you an additional 15, 20, 30 grand.

I mean, you owe it to yourself and your kid to look into it. Yes.

>> Yeah. And I have. And uh and the my

company actually does offer a tuition reimbursement plan and I thought yes this is finally my ticket and you know I went to my parents with it and said hey you know I can do this if you can just you know help me out with child care you know I can get this knocked out in like maybe five four or five years and uh

we'll be you know me and my kiddo will be set and their reaction was like no

your child needs you you know you can't go this route and >> okay and I hate that for you. I feel like a I feel like a deflated balloon.

I'm sure that there's ways that I can reinflate myself. I just need to figure out what what it is. >> Well, for one thing, getting healthy because you've been hurt and there's nothing wrong with you. You got somebody did a number on your heart and that's tough and you sound like that, by the way. And I'm not picking on you. I I actually feel for you. So, in this step

here, it's like, okay, whatever it's going to take for you to get healthy, sitting down with a therapist and get some healing and overcoming that and beginning to see, oh, wait, there's more opportunity than just the company you're at. You know, I asked you to look into it and you're like, well, you're probably right, but then I looked into this. There's still some uncertainty.

And I think you've got to take control of your life and your situation. But I want to get back to the money thing real quick, George. >> Okay. >> Uh because we got about a minute with you, George. back to because I think you need to be looking for for income. I know you're taking care of your boy, but you got to be looking for income growth and I also think you're I mean just based on a quick search, I think you're underpaid for the role that you're in.

Um I think it should be closer to 60 and 90 and so you might be looking for other roles. That might mean a local move. It doesn't mean to the east coast. Maybe it's a different field, but you're still in the procurement world.

So, I would be looking at that and see what can I do without needing to go back to school right now because right now we just need to clean up this debt at the very least and get an emergency fund. And I don't think the house is a thing that's like on fire right now where you need to go sell it tomorrow.

You're going to pay that in rent in your area, I assume.

>> Correct. >> Yeah, pretty much. >> And so that's not going to solve a lot other than taking some equity to knock out the debt, which will knock out a few payments. But you can debt snowball your way out of this with a good side hustle and be out of debt.

Let's see. You got 28K in debt, you're making 60K, you could be done in 18 months. >> That's right. So, we we want you to stay in the house for now.

I think that's good for you long term, but you got to increase your income. That's the issue here. It's not the house, it's an income problem. And uh we're rooting for you, man.

>> Yeah. Sorry, Dustin, but again, part of this is you do what you got to do to be able to afford to sit with a good counselor, man, and get get healing on the other side of this heartbreak, and you'll be a different man, and life will be better, too. Thank you.

there's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 88. If You Want To Do Great Things You Need To Do Hard Things First | October 6, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is

weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. So

excited to have you with us. 888255225

is the phone number to jump in.88255225

alongside the fabulous, the incomparable

Jade Warshaw. I am >> Thank you, my friend. >> Ken Coleman. Just happy to be in her presence, folks. It's going to be good.

Fresh off of Orlando. We might talk a little bit about that. We'll see. Land Orlando, I can't speak now. And Chicago, >> shy town. >> Uh couple live events. So much fun. We are feeling the juice from those two great crowds. Jessica is up in Arkansas.

Jessica, how can we help today?

>> Hi, good morning or good afternoon. I'm

sitting at just a tad bit under a million dollars in debt. um almost 200

of that is unsecured and we were

contemplating bankruptcy, but my faith

tells me that I should be paying all this and I know I should. Um and I'm just I guess I'm trying to see if there's a light at the end of the tunnel for us. >> There's always hope. >> Why don't you lay it out for us? Give us the whole 1 million in debt. What is

that? So 210 is unsecured personal loans. 83

um of that 210 is credit cards.

Um the house is 658.

>> Okay. >> And then there's two vehicles that um

there's two vehicles in there. One's almost paid off and then the other one is very very upside down.

>> Tell us the amounts. Uh the first and the second.

One is we owe 12,000 on it and the other

one is 59,000.

>> And how much do you know off the top of your head what that 59,0001 is worth?

>> Um 35 >> girlfriend. Okay. Um how much do you guys earn? It's you and your husband.

>> Yes. And he is in a job transition. Um

so we were making over 300. Now we're at

sitting at about 259 a year.

>> Okay, good. That's Listen, there's your light at the end of the tunnel right there. Is if you had told me that your shovel was 60 or 70,000, I'd be really

hurting with you. Um, but the good news is you have a really great shovel, uh, 259, and you said that's with or without

the job loss.

>> That's with the job loss. And his new job is going to be commission only. So, we haven't we don't know what that's going to look like yet. It could be amazing. >> I believe you make 259.

>> Um, we have some retirement funds in

there um from military and

>> disability. How much of that is the military? Like how much of that is your income and how much of that is like pension type stuff?

>> About half. >> Okay, good. That is really really really really really good news. Um, tell me about the 210,000. Was this a business loan? What What was that money for?

>> It was a little bit of everything, honestly. It was um some bad business

endeavors, me trying to be a serial entrepreneur. Okay. >> It was um some bad financial decisions

just in general. Um imposttor syndrome.

I took took a fantastic career

opportunity and I just kind of um

shopped my way through the imposttor syndrome until I got to therapy.

>> Okay. >> And uh so that was some bad financial decisions there, luxury shopping >> and then um I took over I took out two

personal loans to clear my husband's credit card debt um as well. So that's

what all that is. This is like classic mo money mo problems, right? This is you had a big income and so you could afford to make bigger mistakes, right? But really when we boil it down, Ken, this ratio-wise, it's the same call we always hear, right?

>> So that's the good news is, you know, you've got uh 260,000 in income right

now. It's going to go up exponentially.

And you got, you know, uh, I'm not counting the mortgage debt because when we're in baby step two, which is the step where you're paying off all the consumer debt, we really don't count the mortgage. So, can you tell me how much your monthly mortgage payment is so I can see what percentage of your life it is? >> 3938. >> Okay.

And so, that's going to be fine with what you're bringing home. So, that the mortgage is not the problem. And I just wanted to explain that to you. It's no more than 25% of your take-home.

So, that's not the issue. The problem is you feel overwhelmed because no matter how you slice it, if you if you tell somebody you have $300,000 of debt, that that's a lot, right? >> Yeah.

>> Yes. I actually did it probably about 20 years ago and I the only debt I carried up until three years ago was a mortgage and a car payment.

>> Um and I would usually pay the car payment, you know, double or whatever.

>> Yeah. >> Well, are you Okay, we get that. But let's talk about the now because your question is, is there a light at the end of the tunnel? The answer is yes, if you're willing to look for it. And so, are you done now? >> Are you done? Is this the last time you're ever going to do this?

>> Oh, for sure. >> Okay. I I can't do this again.

>> Okay. So, um, in this situation, my take is I would try to get massive momentum, you know, and Jade can speak to this.

I'm going to give it back to her quickly because she and Sam paid off $500,000 in

debt. So, you got the perfect person to talk to today. But here's my only thing that I would say and I'll hand the baton back to you, Jade. I think they need a momentum >> play like a big one.

>> And so I would be attacking. I would try to get rid of the $59,000 car payment >> instantly. >> Like even if they go upside down, you can tell her how we do it, but I I I just think there needs to be a dramatic move. I don't know what your take is having done this yourself. >> No, I I agree uh with Ken 100%. you do

you need to do something that's going to shake you uh emotionally that's going to shake you financially that's going to almost like it's like the gun going off of the race, right? And I I agree with Ken. Um you guys need to pull together

and I mean with your income in a in a couple of short months, pull together that 24,000 that you're upside down on this vehicle and get out of it and you

know drive the $12,000 vehicle for a while. Figure out a plan to save up another you know couple thousand to get you a beater. And here's the thing. I'm gonna be 100% straight with you. You're

used to making a lot of money. When you get a beater, it's gonna mess with your ego big time because in your mind, you're going to go, "Wait a minute. I work too hard to be driving a car like this. Wait a minute.

Nobody at my work drives a car like this or nobody in my social circle." Right? Cuz you start hanging out with who you earn money with, right? And so, you're going to be the one and it is going to create questions and it's your choice whether you answer those questions. But I'm just letting you know right now, Jessica, that's going to happen.

And there's going to be an inongruency for a while with the how hard I'm working and how much money I'm earning versus the lifestyle I'm living. And I'm telling you that as a person who did that for quite a while. And that's going to be so good for your soul because that's what's going to cause you never to do this again. You're going to go, "Oh my gosh, I never want to feel that again." >> Seriously, I think it's right.

And you know, not trying to steal too much of your story, but I mean, Sam and I were hanging out last night, Jade Tesla, and he reminded me you guys had one car for a long time.

>> Yeah, but that was just cuz you adjusted to it. >> I did. >> But during the massive debt payoff, you guys were one car family. So, >> but you said it, Ken. We got used to it.

>> That's right. You you did fine.

>> You get used to anything, >> right? Right. You could be making multiple six figures and get used to whatever lifestyle you create. So >> yeah, I did. That's hilarious to me that you were here for a year before you got wheels. >> And even still, I was a little reluctant. I was like, we don't need it.

>> Listen now. Get me that get me that G Wagon. I'm ready, Ken. >> Come on.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, April is up next in Ohio.

April, how can we help you today?

>> Hi guys, thanks for taking my call. So, I am recently divorced, 44 years old. I

make 50,000 a year. I have one debt and

it's a car and I owe 29,000 on it. And I

have to decide whether I want to keep

the car, sell the car, pay the car off,

or what to do with the bag on car because I want to be completely out of debt and I want to eventually buy a house. So >> tell us how much the car is worth right now on the open market.

>> About 23 probably.

>> So upside down six. Do you have any cash?

>> I have 57,000 in the bank.

>> Oh, this is a >> That's the only Yeah. Sorry. Is that the only debt you have?

>> Is >> it is the only debt I have now. >> Okay. Go ahead, Jade. Yeah. Okay.

>> In the in the infamous words of King Coleman, this is what I'd call a nothing burger. >> Oh, yeah. >> Which means there's no problem here.

>> That's right. >> You can decide today to just pay it off.

Well, >> you've got the money, >> right? Why Why are you not doing that?

What's stopping? >> Well, because I'm trying to I'm trying to make sure I have enough money for a down payment on a house. Got it.

>> So, and so in the the Jeep is currently

my ex-husband's name. So, I have to either refinance at my name, pay it off, get it titled to my name, or I thought about, you know, living like no one else so I can live like no one else and selling the dag on thing and driving the junker for a little while. But, I mean, I don't really want to do that cuz my car is reliable. It's only got 50,000 miles on it. like it's a good vehicle.

Um it's not really the vehicle I wanted when I purchased it, >> but it's a good vehicle.

>> It's in his name.

>> It's in his name. Yeah. >> Well, either way. Yeah. Either way, you've got to if it's going to be your car, you've got to move it to your name and make sure that you're the one who gets the >> the title and everything like that.

>> You don't have to eat up most of the 57.

I get what you're saying. So, you said you're upside down 6K. So, if you sell

it for 23. Okay. And then we take the

six out of the 57. That leaves us with 51 and we we're whole on the car. And then I'm telling you right now, like this is the spiritual gift that I have that nobody knows except for James Charles. He can attest to this. I could find you a car right now >> for 10 grand >> that is extremely functional. It's not an absolute piece of crap on wheels and it will get you through it. And and let's say now you're down to 41,000.

You're debtree. You've got a serviceable

car. More than enough in the emergency fund, Jade, to fix the $10,000 car. I

mean, you could go 12 >> and get a very serviceable car. And now

you're debt-free emergency fund and now on to baby step 3B, which is saving for the house. Unless I'm missing something, um there's no reason for you to hold on to this money because we're not telling you to go empty it >> or even cut it in half. >> Right. Right. So, you think your advice

then would be to sell the Jeep, buy something cheaper? Yeah. And just take the 6,000 loss instead of paying it off completely. >> Oh, I thought the 6,000 is paying it off completely. You're going to sell it for 23. >> Mhm. >> Well, I mean to keep it. I mean, your your advice is to sell it instead of keep it. >> I would personally. I would.

>> Oh, okay. >> Uh >> because it's attached to him. I'll explain my reasoning. There's no right or wrong on this is what I'm guessing you're going to say. Yeah, >> you can keep it and pay it off. Like to Jade's point, you could pay the entire 29 down today out of the 57. Now you got

yourself a car that you're used to >> and and yada yada yada.

>> Well, the only reason I wouldn't do that is because yeah, Ken is right. It's too

much of your take-home pay. Like, it's too much of your pay. It's more than it's more than 50% >> and you probably would not have bought this car if you were just you, right?

you would have bought something a more affordable >> and my advice was based on helping you save for the house.

>> So I gave you the advice to spend the least amount of money but still be moving forward in your life.

>> Gotcha. >> You tracking with me? So you sell it, you get 23 for it, you're going to come out of pocket six to take care of the loan now. Now right >> you just got a bunch of money back. What's that car payment every month?

>> 563. Hey, >> girl. I That's That's like uh almost eight grand a month. I mean, a year we just saved you. Now Now, >> okay, you go buy a $10,000 car

and and you're still left with $47,000 the way I added it up earlier. And so, you still got a real nice uh case of

momentum here because you're coming out of the divorce. We got rid of a car with your ex's name on it.

>> It's too much car for you.

>> All the things. So that's why I gave you that plan because that is what I would do if I were you. That's what I would do. >> And it's going to feel good getting your own I almost said set of wheels and then that felt very retro. You're going to feel good getting your own >> cuz she hangs out with me. That's me. That's my old influence on you.

>> Whip. You got to feel good in your own whip. >> That's not it either. >> Yes. Exactly. You know what I mean?

Okay. Awesome. Oh, that helps so much. I thought that's what you guys would say, but I wanted to just make sure because I was literally going to call and just pay that off today. And then I'm like, >> do I really want to do that though? I really want car. So, >> think about, see, here's the thing. We get rid of a car attached to a chapter of your life that's over. That's not the single reason for this, but it's a good reason. >> Yeah. >> And you, it's all about momentum.

>> Many times our advice >> is about momentum. getting that and boy,

just getting rid of that $560 car payment. >> That's a lot. >> That's gonna feel great. Getting rid of that other car >> and now you go get your own thing and and you go, I'm sacrificing on a $10,000 car because I want my own house.

>> I like it. >> Eye on the prize. And and so if I am

sacrificing jade in the short term

>> to see that it's going to give me a absolutely legitimate shot at the long term that I desire. >> Man, that feels good. I'm in. You don't have to talk me into that kind of a sacrifice. >> And the other thing is is I like to say this and I get too excited about this, I know, but I can't begin to tell you how

many decent cars there are out there for 10, 12, $15,000. And most Americans are just they think they're above it.

>> Yeah. I don't understand. I mean, I get it. I get it. It's a it's a status symbol, right? It's >> I totally understand. >> But I've said it before, I'll say it again, Ken. You You get in the car and

>> yeah, you ride to work, but other It's sitting outside. And most of us, let's be honest, most people in America, if you have a garage, it's filled up with junk. and you let that beautiful Mercedes or that beautiful Acura or whatever you drive sit outside, get in the rain, get in the in the snow, and then when you go to work, it sits in the parking lot. Yeah. >> And no one is walking in the parking lot going, "Oh, I wonder if that's Bob's sedan." Right. No one cares.

>> Nobody cares. And I'll tell you this couple things, and Jade can back me up on this. She knows what I drive. It would surprise a lot of people what I drive. Uh I drive an older used car.

It's a fabulous little Mercedes. Uh it looks fantastic. Looks better. looks it looks newer than it is. But I'll tell you this, nobody, and I mean nobody,

>> pulls up next to me at the stoplight and goes, "Oh, look at that Ken Coleman over there.

>> I'm not sure why he's driving that late model there." What? Nobody cares. Nobody even notices me on the interstate, >> right? >> So, you know, I choose to do that because I've got higher priorities.

>> Yeah. I I >> my money my money is in other places and you know, >> I do. And so, you know, for me, it it

has always been functionality over status when it comes to a car. Now, there's a there's a day coming.

>> Oh, it's coming. >> When I get all the kids off the payroll, >> G Wagon. >> Oh, man. Yeah.

>> They see me rolling. >> I'm going to have a car with a trumpet on it just so everybody knows I'm coming. >> Not a horn, like a Yeah. Like, oh, here

comes Coleman. He wants everybody to know that his kids are out of the house.

It's going to be like a It's going to be like a By the way, at the uh Randy Show live. >> Yeah. >> I learned a new term. >> Hit me. >> I didn't know there was such a thing as a push present.

>> I'm wearing mine right now.

>> Well, I It's ridiculous.

>> What made you transition to that?

>> Because I'm going to have >> a baby. >> A empty nest present for myself.

>> When I get the kids off the payroll, James, >> you going in. Daddy is gonna go buy himself a really fun toy and just say,

"It's mine because I've taken care of everybody else forever." Thank you, ma'am. There's a lady out there who's given me a really solid head nod.

>> I like that. You get a retirement present. You get a present when you have babies.

When they graduate, >> it's an empty nest present. Boy, Stacy is such a lucky lady.

>> Touche, sir. That's great. >> Touche. She'll get something, too.

>> Yeah. What are we talking? I don't know.

I'm making it up on the spot. I don't want to I don't want to commit. >> Feels expensive. Feels >> It's gonna be expensive. >> Hey, side note though. I think we should have a spin-off show where you people call in and you find them used cars live on the air and then send I would love to do that. I'd love to be your used car.

Ken's cars. I like that. It's got a nice little ring to it. All right, we'll talk about it. We'll see what happens, folks.

Stay tuned for that wildly popular segment.

[Music]

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All right, folks. The all new. All new.

And I say when I say all new, I mean all new. >> Brand spanking. >> Yeah. Every dollar is here. And boy oh boy is it it's worth all the hype. Uh

you can watch the premiere on our YouTube channel to actually see how every dollar works. It's more than a budgeting app. Uh we've got all of the the great things that you knew if you've been around for a while about Financial Peace University. Actual coaching. So

many great prompts. I mean it's just there for you. People are finding thousands of dollars in margin in just 15 minutes just through the prompts and the pathway that we're walking you through. So, imagine how you could how much you could find to put towards your money goals. Um, again, go to our YouTube channel, Ramsey Show, and we've got the premiere there. Jade Warshaw, uh, Rachel Cruz, George Camel, our money personalities did a great job with that.

Super interactive. >> You need to watch it because it really does explain. I mean, we can't do it justice just talking about it for a second, but that premiere will do it justice. >> Yeah. So fun. Kevin is now joining us in Miami, Florida. Kevin, how can we help today?

>> Well, hi. I'm just calling because I I recently graduated from grad school and

I have some loans and debt, I guess you can say. So, I'm kind of transitioning

in life and being like a student basically and joining the workforce. So, I just wanted some like advice and like some wisdom, I guess you can I can take with me as I start this new stage of

life. >> Okay. How much uh how much debt do you have?

>> So, it's me and my wife, which my wife is still in grad school. She's in her currently her second year of grad school. And it's I have a total of

180,000 and 140 of it. from my student loans and

then 15,000 is from her student loans

and then we have a total of 16,000 in credit card. Yeah.

>> Do you have a job? >> Um but maybe um so it took me a while to

get licensed in my state. So I just got

approved to be working in my state.

>> Licensed to do what?

>> Uh pharmacy.

>> Okay. So I appreciate that you're licensed now. Do you have a job?

>> Yeah, I just got a a job yesterday.

>> Oh, congratulations.

>> Yeah. So, I start that job in two weeks.

>> Um, do me a favor.

>> Do me a favor. Can you adjust your phone? I feel like you've got a sock over your phone.

>> Oh. Uh, can you hear better now?

>> It's a little bit better. Um, sorry, I'm

really struggling. My ADHD is like flaring. Um, how much are you going to make as a pharmacist?

>> Uh, so the job I have is it's not full-time or part-time. It's basically as needed uh for them. So the hours aren't guaranteed, but I'll be making $71 an hour.

>> $71 an hour. Do you have any sense on how many hours you're going to get? Cuz I don't like the way this sounds for a guy who's got all this debt.

Yeah, honestly saying, but I I've been applying to all these places and this is basically the only one that really got back to me, >> right? >> But you understand like that's not a great deal. You don't even know how many hours you're going to be working two weeks from now.

>> Yeah. I mean, I during the training period, I'll be getting 10 10 training

training days, I guess you could say.

>> Mhm. >> So, I'll for sure have that. And then after that, how it was explained to me, there's some weeks I'm going to be making doing like 20 hours in a week and then there's some weeks I'm going to be doing like 40 hours in a week. So, >> okay. So, you understand though that you've got to be more resourceful right now. That means you're working at a coffee shop. You're working two, three, four jobs right now.

>> Yes. >> While, by the way, looking for a better pharmacist gig >> because this is going to eat you alive.

what what is your total uh monthly bills

when it comes to just these loans, all this stuff combined?

>> So, the loans are still in grace right now and I don't start the repayment of it till I guess December.

>> Okay. >> So, >> that's not long, >> brother. December is is literally around the corner. Okay.

>> Exactly. So, that's one of the reasons I'm calling because it's it's like

>> uh >> income, my friend. Listen, our debt snowball plan, I bring Jade in on this, but I'll just say this. Income, income, income is your issue right now.

>> You got a wife who's in grad school. I don't know how much she can work with the grad school load. So, I'm being realistic there. I don't know what she can do.

So, if she can't do much or anything, I mean, you're the one that's got to be working. And when I said two, three, and four jobs, I wasn't just saying it, you know, to hear myself think and talk. you've got to bring in income because December is coming quickly and it's going to be a rude awakening.

Jade will walk you through it step by step what you have to do right now.

>> Yeah, there's two there's two things at play here and Ken said the first one, you need money like you got to have money coming in and then the second thing, sure you can tighten up uh your spending and tighten up your budget and and those sorts of things. By the way, we'll make sure that we give you a budget. We'll give you every dollar before you get off this call because you need it. Um, but that is the equation.

You guys have a hole here and you dug the hole and now you have to do the work to get out of it. There's not really um an easy button here. I wish there was.

If there was, I would slide it your way, but there's not. So, it it is what Ken said, which is probably wasn't what you planned, right? We all plan I'm just going to get a great job right away and I'll be just be able to get out of it. But >> that's not the reality here. And a part of this I would say uh of the equation I

would say 80% of you doing this is just

accepting that this is what must be done. And if you can do that then you can go about the business of actually doing the actions. So part of it is saying hey if I want to get where I want to go there's part of this I just have to accept. It's like it's like running a marathon Ken.

>> Yeah. Oh >> when Sam and I ran our first marathon it's like in your head you go I know I want to do this. This race seems good. I'll feel great when it's all over.

I want to accomplish this. And then when you start the training, you're like, "Oh, wait a minute.

day." And it gets progressively harder and what if I get injured and my body hurts and all these things. And half the battle of running a marathon, which in this case, your dead is the marathon.

Half the battle is just going, "Hey, >> this is what must be true for this amount of time. And if I just embrace it and do it, the finish line will be there." That's right. The finish line is there, but if you want to cross it with any amount of grace or style or good

timing, then you have to embrace the training. And that's just how it works.

>> Hard things.

I >> If you want great things, I promise you, you're going to have to endure hard things. >> I I don't care if it's athletically. I don't care if it's wanting to start a business and grow it and become self-employed. I don't care if it's I want to go into ministry and and and touch lives and pour my heart out for I you pick any endeavor physical, emotional, spiritual, financial endeavor. If you want to be great or do something significant, forget great. Sometimes we we make great too too like

uh you know, oh it's about great great.

If you want to do something significant, >> I can tell you it's on the other side of hard things, >> man. Can't avoid it.

>> You know, >> you cannot it's it's unavoidable.

>> Yeah. And it's like sometimes we like, oh, success and all the things. Uh, and we were helping people with money success, work success, relationship success. That's what we're about here.

But I'm just going to tell you something. I've been married 27 years.

As James said earlier, God bless Stacy.

I mean, the woman has had to endure some hard things >> to make it this far, you know? I mean, it's just it is what it is.

>> But there's also, and let's break it down further because there's the hard things that we want to do. Like we say, I'm going to go to school and I know that's going to be a challenge and I know it's going to like there's the hard things we want to do, but there are then the hard things we don't want to do and those are part of it. >> Oh yeah. >> And I think that's really the main >> Yeah.

>> You know where it disconnects. It's like wait a second.

>> Correct. Yeah. It's like all that training and everything or I'd rather have been home watching football elbow deep in some salsa. You know what I mean?

>> Yeah. I mean, that's what I want to do, but nobody wants to be out there pounding the pavement, putting the effort in. So, uh, back to this situation. Um, especially young couples or young people coming right out of this.

I got this degree. It's such a huge accomplishment. I don't want to in any way downplay it, >> and you think, okay, I just did all this work and now what? Now what is I got to pay it off >> or else I'm going to be miserable.

And you can't just go, well, I applied to all these different places. I got a part-time pharmacy thing. No.

in. >> Now I gotta go. >> I got my foot in the door, but it's not a great gig. So now I got to go work four other jobs to be able to take care of my wife and I who she's in grad school. Like this is the reality. So I wish we again had an easy fix, but we don't. Work the baby steps. And working the baby steps, it's a simple process, but it is extremely difficult. Hard hats

are required.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right. Are you staying on track with the baby steps? If you'd like to know where you are, how you're tracking, take a quick quiz, and you can check your progress and get a personalized plan to

keep that momentum going, you can head to our show notes and click on the link.

Are you on track with the baby steps?

Complete the quiz and it gives you a really fun update and uh some great inspiration. Austin is now joining us in

Florida. Austin, how can we help?

>> Hey, how y'all doing? >> Well, we're having a blast today. What's going on with you? >> Good, good. Hey, listen. So, I was up at the bank the other day and uh I was just moving some money around and whatnot.

I've been trying to get out of debt.

I've been doing very good over the last um 11 months. I paid off $22,000.

>> Wow. >> Good job. >> Yeah. So, I've been trying. I've got, you know, $8,900 bucks left to go. I'll be completely debtree. And the lady up

there at the bank was telling me I need to get a credit card to get my credit score to have reoccurring payments on my

credit so I can get a house because I'm looking, you know, in the next two years to get a house. and I've been working the Ramsay plan and I don't want to go for the credit, but I'm stuck right now because I'm so close to having a good credit score >> opposed to having no credit score. So, I need >> I need somebody with a little >> You need to talk to Jade. You need to listen to Jade, not the nice lady at the bank.

Yeah, >> the nice lady at the bank has ulterior motives. No matter how sweet and bubbly she was, and I can just picture her, she was probably just as sweet as sugar. and she probably had a lot of credibility because she swayed you a little bit.

So glad you called today and I would like you to never listen to that lady again and I'd like you to listen to this lady. So with no further ado, take it away. >> She probably also had a set of assumptions that you would go to that bank to get the loan for your mortgage when the time is. >> I think that's what she was doing.

>> So >> she she thought >> she thought Listen, you already know the answer, Austin. I can hear it in your voice. Um, but for you and really more so for the benefit of folks listening, us and you know if you've been hanging out with us for a little while, you know we teach all the time. The credit score is not necessary. And I'll reiterate that with you again. I get it. Um,

society teaches us this from a very young age, right? We're just bombarded with the message, right? Never leave home without it, right? And you're you're actually scared to leave home without your Mastercard, right? So, I get it. Um, but I like to remind people

that the only reason you're hearing that message so much is because there's money on the other end of it, >> you know, for uh businesses and for banks. What we teach is actually just as true. The truth is, yeah, >> you can have a great credit score and go buy a house. That that is true. There's no falsehood to that. But it's also true and just as true that you can have a zero credit score and go and buy a home.

And America needs to know this, right?

There are companies that do uh manual

underwriting which say hey we're not looking at a credit score we're simply looking at how you manage your money and that does exist. So in that way having a zero credit score or an indeterminable credit score is the same really it's better than having a good credit score because it doesn't have the stress and the debt attached to it. Right? And so that's how that happens.

And when that happens, now is the time.

That's when you can strike, right? You if you if if if your score hasn't rolled away yet and it's low, yes, you're going to have a problem. But once it hits zero, that's the sweet spot of when that happens. And we would always recommend Church Hill Mortgage to you.

They do mortgages in the majority of the United States. So, yeah, it could take a little due diligence. You hop on their website, do a little research, get connected with someone and start making your plan. And all they're going to want to know is what we're all kind of used to.

They're going to want to know your payubs, right? Show us your payubs. They're going to want to know, you know, can you keep the job? How long have you been at, you know, getting paid?

And if maybe if you're, you know, a small business like Sam and I were, they might want to see your tax returns, your business tax returns. That's fine. And then they're going going to want to see your trade lines. Uh have you been keeping up with your cell phone payment, your utility payment, and they want to see proof that you've been paying rent.

And that's really important for folks who are living at home. Make sure there's some paper trail to show, hey, I've been paying rent on time. Um even if it's to your parents, just make sure you're documenting that because that's really all you need.

basically the same process, Ken.

>> That's right. Exactly right. So, this is a myth that she just busted. And uh hope you get it, Austin.

Stand strong. You're going to stand strong and just smile and wave like the the penguins from Madagascar when when people hit you with these things. I mean, you know better, don't you? >> Yes, sir.

>> All right. So, you just got a master class. You don't need a credit score, do you, Austin? >> No, I do not.

And that's just I I was stuck because I didn't know if I needed it, you know, within the next two years or not. >> You know, that's why we're here. Quick question. >> Okay, >> another quick question if you got just a second.

>> Well, it's got to be fast. We got other people waiting.

>> Right. The ne the next question. My bank. So, I don't really want to bank there, but it's the closest one anywhere around where I'm living at and the Fair Winds is probably an hour and a half away from where I'm at.

>> What can I do with that? >> What's causing you to go into the bank all the time? Cuz I feel like >> So, like my my rent, everything is cash.

All that's a cash deal right now.

>> Why? >> So to get to get just because the where

it's at. I'm I'm renting out some property >> and we pay the landlord cash. So we're

saving up to get out of debt.

>> So everything I don't know that you have to >> Well, I I just I I don't know why you have to pay cash. I just I don't understand that. >> Let's talk about that. So, if you're doing cash as some sort of an envelope system to try to just like keep your piles of money separate and manage it better, that usually works better for things that you can easily pay cash for like groceries or maybe gas or uh things

like that. But I do find that things like rent or car payments, it is more

convenient to pay for them online. So,

unless you're receiving like your income as cash and then you would have to deposit it in the bank anyway. But if you're receiving your income as direct deposit, I would recommend keeping it as direct deposit. That way, you can bank at an establishment that you feel good about and do most of it online.

>> And Fairwinds can take great care of you. I mean, I I'd call them call them and go, "Hey, I live an hour away." Just let them walk you through it. But I I don't know that you have to do that. And I I just personally I I know it's 2025.

I just >> cash You got a problem with cash, Ken? I I I don't have a problem with it, but pain it just seems really inconvenient.

I mean, when he started off the call, he's like, "I was at the bank the other day and I was moving my money." I was like, "Did you go see, you know, the merkantile and get your eggs while you were there?" It felt very >> general store. >> Yeah. It felt like uh I'm not sure this is the best use of our time.

>> Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good Now, I do I will say if you are on baby step two and you're really trying to be on it, I do love cash for that purpose.

But again, just for like use it for the groceries. Yeah. where the budget rolling up with a wad of cash. I don't know if I feel good about that.

>> Nothing fundamentally wrong with it.

>> No, there's nothing. Well, his problem is there's no bank, >> right? And I'd love him to be with Fairwinds. And so, you know, if he's not having to drive, I can't remember the last time I had to go into the bank.

>> I try at all costs not to go into the bank. >> Yeah, they're never open. Have you noticed that? >> Actually, they are more now than ever.

I feel like it used to be like on Saturdays they'd be closed, but now they're open >> on Saturdays. I think so. Last >> the banks are open on Saturday. Everybody >> sometimes it's like until noon or something.

>> Yeah. Listen, I just remember >> not going to the bank on a Saturday. I promise you that right now there's too much football to be watched.

>> No comment. >> I'm not, you know, I need to get into the the football game. I haven't Let me

Yeah. I mean, I can't even tell you.

>> Yeah. All right. Very good. Anyway, the point is um that much cash, big transactions, a lot of cash. I just, you know, I don't know. I'd be careful. >> Rent feels like something you should pay online. Let's do it like that.

>> Yeah. And it protects you. You know, the online the banking for everyone's credit union. There's protections in using online banking, which I like. Yeah.

>> You know, and I'll tell you where I do like cash. When I'm buying a car for the kids. >> Oh. To just slap it on there on the table. >> My favorite move is the accordion. What say you? >> I call it the accordion. I lay it out on the hood of the car that I'm offering.

>> That is gangster, Ken Coleman.

>> I think I think it kind of is. I receive that because you're making an offer, right? >> Oh, yeah. They're asking this. I don't want to pay this. >> You just silently put it out there. >> Pull out the envelope and I do this number and I just kind of count it out on the hood trying under the guise of being accurate. But it's a hidden flex.

>> Y'all don't know that, Ken. It's a G.

That's how I bought my uh last kid's car. Nice old lady counted it out for you. Take it or leave it. What is she going to do?

>> Make you an offer you can refuse.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside

Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman. Steve is now joining us in Columbia, South Carolina. Steve, how can we help today?

>> Yeah, hi Ken. Hi Jay. It's great to be speaking with you guys today. >> Yeah, good to talk to you. Um, so I've got a uh uh I'm on the cusp of finalizing a divorce and we came to a mediated settlement and as part of it um

basically there's a 50/50 split of the 401k but then I also have to come up with 100,000 in cash in 90 days to buy

her out of the house and then additionally there's 150k um lump sum

alimony payment over five years. So kind

of two questions is basically how would you guys recommend coming with the 100k because uh I got some advice from the lawyers that I didn't really appreciate and clearly they weren't part of the Ramsey program and uh and then I treat

the alimony payment going forward. Do I treat it as a debt in the baby steps or

as like a line item in the budget going forward? >> Why don't we address that one first?

Jade, tell me about where that goes in the budget. >> Uh the 150 over five years. Have you calculated it out and seen what that looks like monthly?

>> Yes. So about 2500 a month.

>> Can you af you afford that?

>> And it and it fits. Yeah.

>> Okay, good. So yeah, that's a line item on the budget. Um I would do it that way, especially if you can afford it. What's your income?

>> Uh about 180 a year.

>> Okay, good. >> It ends up being about about like 8 8,000 a month. >> Okay. Okay. So >> the 100K in 90 days to buy out the house. >> Yeah. Why' you agree to that?

>> Uh so it's it's definitely definitely the house. Uh it's um uh terms of

everything else available in the area.

Uh there's there's no way I'd be getting anything close to this. And um

>> but I'm talking about the the term the time >> like you do you have a hundred do you have $100,000?

>> Yeah. So that's exactly it. I think I think it was a matter of kind of signing it and not really paying attention to that 90 days. Um, I've got about 50 to 55K in cash right now.

>> Okay. Well, that's a good start. How much is your car worth?

>> Uh, so, uh, not much. So, it's a 2007

Subaru Forester. So, >> what happens if Let's come at this thing from another angle. Just I'm trying to figure this out for you. What happens if in 90 days you don't have 100K? What what what is the kick in in the contract? What What the agreement?

Uh, so it's just part of the court order. So I I think it'd be going going back back in front of the judge.

>> I think that's your best bet. This was a this was a bad negotiation on your part or on your lawyer's part because you don't you can't get the money in 90 days. And so when this goes back in front of the court, you need to have a better plan of what that is. Um, >> so >> why why not sell the deal? I was going to say >> the original well the the original thought was uh uh basically kind of part of the quadro from the rest of the 401k.

So my half of the 401k use part of it to be able to pay her off. >> That was your plan.

>> That was the that was the original thought. And then again uh the the lawyers even suggested doing a home equity loan which I flat out just rejected. And that was a bad idea >> because you have to put yourself you have to reverse engineer like you have to reverse the situation and say if I were in any other setting would I borrow from my 401k to buy a house? No, you wouldn't. Would I take out a personal loan, you know, to to up the Annie on my

house? No, you wouldn't. Um, and that's the way I'm looking at it. I think that

you either need to give yourself more time if this is like something that you're like, I love this house. I don't want to give it up. I'm never going to have a house like this again. You either need to give yourself more time. I mean, I've talked to people where there's years to come up with the money. Not that I want you linked to her for that long, but uh Do you have kids?

>> Uh adult kids. So, she's in college now, but Yep. >> Okay. So, where's your ex going? She's just going to go rent somewhere?

>> Uh starting a new career in another state. >> Okay. Here's here I'm gonna come back to this because I I now again I've never walked through this before, so Jade and I are kind of on the same page. about you could do maybe a cash out refi. I don't know if there's because you have to take her name off it anyway. >> I I would sell the house. And do you have any equity in it at all?

>> Yeah. And that's basically what I'm buying buying out of. >> How much equity do you have in the home?

>> Uh about 200k in equity.

>> So why wouldn't you I mean >> I I don't understand given that equity stake that you have. This is just a house and it's got a bunch of pain attached to it. you are single, you got

all this money that you that you're going to have to pay out uh over five years. I I personally, and again, I

don't know what you think about this, but >> I view it a little differently. >> I know. Well, >> I'm giving you another train of thought. I I'm not going to advocate for my point of view. I'm going to say if it were me, I'd sell the house.

>> If if Are there kids involved?

>> I know exactly what's been going on in my brain. So, >> to sell it.

>> No, no, no, no. Just the back and forth.

So there's Yeah, like you said, there's there's >> I like a clean start in this situation.

>> There's there's that, but then there's also I mean, you did make a good point earlier where you said with the market and when you bought this house, you might not be able to get something like that again. And I do feel that if emotionally there's not the attachment that Ken and

I think there might be, and you want to keep the house, yeah, standard is you would refi, get her name off of it, and then you would pull the cash out when you refi, and then she would get her portion. The only reason I kind of disagreed with Ken's sentiment initially is because the hundred,000 is her money.

It's not you giving a h 100,000 of your money at this point now. That is her money because you're separate. So there's a different way to look at that.

It's like I'm just I'm just giving her her money. I'm not giving away my money if that makes sense. Um >> right. >> So that's if you want to do the 90-day

deal, that's how you would get it. Um

but Ken has a good point. Do you really want to be in this house or is it worth it to you to maybe get less house and have a fresh start? That's the question. Only you can answer that. >> Yeah. >> Or rent for a bit. I mean, your life's not over.

>> So, >> yeah, I I definitely know that it's starting starting over, but Yep.

>> Yeah. And it's not over. It's starting over. And so, there's a whole lot of new things coming your way. So, again, I don't want to advocate for it. That may be too aggressive. >> How long were you married? >> You know, >> uh 20 years. >> 20 years. Oh, listen. Ken may have a point. Are the kids? Do you have kids?

>> Yeah, they remember they got the >> Oh, that's right. That's right. >> Is it just one? >> College. Yeah, just one.

>> Yeah. You got your work cut out for you in in terms of sentimental thoughts versus fresh start thoughts.

>> I mean, you make a good entry. >> I've been working through those. >> You make here here's I'm not advocating, but I am going to because I I like when you push back, so keep pushing on this.

But in your shoes, if you sell this house, then you're able to uh pay her

her money and have that done. Set aside, put it away, get it over with. That's what I would do. I would I would want a clean break if I could do it. And I'm just looking at the numbers. You're going to have to pay her uh a h 100,000 in 90

days, and then you got 150, which is alimony, over five years. Um that's a

lot of money coming out of your pocket.

It could be nice to have a smaller.

>> And I'm just saying I might rent for a year, reset my life. I don't think renting for 12 months is a bad idea for a guy in your shoes.

>> Get rid of the house. Move on into a new

chapter of life. >> And another Okay, I'm going to throw something else in there. And this is soon, so don't don't be mad at me, but

you'll move on at some point and meet another lovely lady. Do you want to bring her into that house or do you want to bring her into, you know, fresh start, Steve?

>> Yeah. So, we'll see about that one, but sure. >> I I know I jumped ahead, but do you see what I'm saying? Like there's Begin with the end in mind is what I'm saying.

>> Yeah. I I don't know. I don't know why I feel that way, but that's what I would do in that situation. And just start fresh. You're not wrong. Start fresh.

Get her to the hundred,000. That's her money to your point.

>> And now work on the rest of it.

>> Oh, divorce sucks. take that for you.

>> Yeah, me too.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, let's go to Chris who's joining us now in North Carolina. Chris, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how you doing? Um, so yeah, um, I, uh, got sick before

COVID and I was bedridden for three years and went through a financial problem real bad. Uh, lost my business,

had credit card debt go crazy. And

couple years later now, it's coming back to haunt me. I just now was able to start working again. Clearly two months in and I've got uh haven't been served

yet, but they're trying to serve me with judgment. I don't have any assets before

all this happened. I turned my house over to my wife and my uh property over

to daughter. So, have no assets to worry

about that. Um I guess my question is should I >> go through with a bankruptcy before I meet the um salary yearly salary requirement

to do so or should I not do bankruptcy and wait to see what happens?

>> Short answer is we're not doing the bankruptcy. But tell me give us more context. What caused you to be sick for three years? Is that over and done or can that come back?

>> Um it's possible. I had Lyme disease and

I didn't know that I had it. I was undiagnosed and then when I got COVID, it dropped my immune system enough to make both of them a problem. And by the

time they found it, it went to my heart, my brain, and >> I had to be on a year of treatment and I was still >> just about two years, I was completely bedridden and then eventually just slowly started getting better. >> And your wife, did your wife leave you during that time? You said you left that gave her the house. What does that mean?

>> No, no, no. We're not legally married.

So, um, so we're, uh, so luckily for

her, she doesn't have to deal with that financial part. Now, we've been together this whole time. Um, >> so you're living with >> Why did you call her your wife? >> Yeah. I'm confused.

>> What's that? >> Why did you call her your wife and then just tell Jay that you're not married?

>> Well, I guess that What would you call a significant other then? >> A girlfriend. >> Is that the proper terminology? I just say wife. >> Okay. I'm not trying to Okay. I'm not trying to get too technical. I didn't know if there was another part of the story that we needed to know about.

>> So, okay. So, your significant other, you've been together a long time. Um, everything's in her name is what you're saying. So, you you literally legally have no assets, >> correct? >> Okay. So, you've just gotten back to work. What are you What kind of work do you do now? And what are you earning?

Um, so, uh, project manager and it's

130,000 a year. >> That's good news.

>> And how much is the debt?

>> Definitely.

>> Um, I think it's like around 70 80,000

something like that. >> Okay. So, first >> half some is credit card, some is loan.

>> Okay. So, first your homework from from me tonight anyway is I want you to go and find out exactly how much you owe. I want you to have it written down. This much is credit cards.

This much is medical. This much is, you know, personal loan. So you get a sense of what it is and the amounts because the way we're going to attack this is what we call the debt snowball where you list them smallest to largest and you pay minimum payments on everything and you know put it as part of your monthly budget and then whatever money you have left in margin which is your extra money. All the extra money goes to the smallest debt.

So, let's say you have a medical bill and one of them's only, you know, $800. You could essentially knock that $800 bill out in one shot.

then, you know, you just keep working through them like that. So, $130,000, Ken, that's great. That's a great income. Mhm. >> Um 70 thou I'm going to let you know right now what you've shown us aside from the medical part cuz that makes this feel very different. But the numbers alone it I mean I want you to

feel good in this case about being average because this is really just kind of your average debt scenario. You got $130,000 income. You're paying off 70.

Yeah. You're going to have to live on not very much. Maybe you live on 80 to make this happen quickly, right? And the average person is out of debt in about two years, two and a half years. So, that's where you're going to be with this. >> And yeah, are you I got a couple questions, Chris, but are you tracking with Jade?

>> Uh, somewhat. Um, >> what do you not if you live on 80 that frees up 50,000? And I know taxes and all that, but do you see where I'm getting at?

>> No, I understand that. Um, I guess when you talk with two different attorneys, I'm getting, you know, three different opinions. I've got, you know, bankruptcy attorneys saying, "Hey, do bankruptcy." Another bankruptcy telling me, "Don't do bankruptcy because you have no assets." North Carolina, it's very rare for them to garnish your wages, if they can at all.

>> Uhhuh. >> So, the worst you're going to deal with is judgments that may come back to to

haunt you. And then you got another bankruptcy attorney says, "Why wait? Why wait until you make that 130,000?" Cuz in North North Carolina, >> as soon as you hit that 60,000, you can't do chapter 7. So why not do it now? >> Let me tell you my reason. >> Get all the debt behind you. >> My reason is when once you file bankruptcy, you're going to lose you're you lose control over the situation.

Yes. And now a court says, "Here's what the judgment is. Here's what you have to pay a month. Here's what it is. Here's what we'll take. You have no assets." But it do you see what I'm saying? you lose control over the situation. And there's a there's an emotional component that's going to go along with that that says that it's basically you signing on the paper that says, "I lost control.

I'm not fit to handle this by myself.

Here, you guys take it." That's going to

take an emotional toll, not only on you.

Obviously, it's going to decimate your credit. I'm sure your credit's already bad, but that's going to take seven years to fall off your credit. So this is going to haunt you when you can look at the situation and go actually there is some agency and some autonomy that you can take over this and you get to decide. You can say you know what I made a mess and instead of losing your confidence you can build your confidence up by cleaning it up one debt at a time and that does something for you as well.

When you take control of a situation and you clean it up and you make something wrong right that's building something in you that at this time in your life you really really really need. Yeah. Listen, you've been through it. I Amen.

Yes. And amen to everything Jade said, Chris, and and I agree with one of the the bankruptcy lawyers that you shouldn't do this for all the reasons she just gave you. But the thing that I'm concerned about for you, you've had your life turned upside down. And man, I hate that for you.

Uh man, I I have so much compassion for you.

would anybody, Chris, it jaded you or it shaded some of your perceptive perceptions about what you should do.

The fact that you are living with a woman that you refer to as your wife and

you signed a house over to her that you bought. Am I understanding this correctly?

>> Correct. >> Brother, uh, that needs to change.

>> Do you want to be with this woman the rest of your life? Yes or no?

Oh yeah, absolutely.

>> Is there a reason or why from her that

you guys aren't married? Is it her or is it you?

>> Well, religiously we're we're married.

We went through all of that. So, I mean, we're a family, all that. We just didn't >> What do you mean? You got >> What do you mean religiously you're married?

>> So, we we went through the ceremony, but we never did a certificate. So in North Carolina technically we are married as far as you know North Carolina when you're living with somebody for seven years you're legally married >> common law. >> Okay >> common law but as far as >> so why not go down to the courthouse today >> the government and all that. >> Well no hold on finish that sentence I want to hear this reasoning really quick. The IRS the government finish that.

>> Yeah as far as you know doing the marriage certificate IRS and all that.

In fact we are we we we file separately.

We're we're separate. We're not legally married. >> Yeah I get it. My point is you signed your house over to somebody and I don't know where that falls in North Carolina North North Carolina law. I don't have time to figure that out on this little bit of a call, but that needs to get >> a lot of trust. >> Yeah. Yeah. You need to get that that

needs to be fixed. Like a don't file bankruptcy. B get the house back in your name if that's even possible.

>> I got you. >> No, no, dude. This is not something to chuckle about. I don't think you get help. I don't think you get help.

>> The concern is what's going on now. And this the concern is what's going on now is that, you know, going out, you know, you got credit card and and bank

assets, right? Lean on the house.

>> Here's what I think you did. Here's what I think you did. And I I I'm not trying to uh make a bad situation worse, but I

have a sense that you guys capitalized

on the fact that you never got the marriage certificate when you saw that it was about to start pouring rain on your situation. And I think you transferred that house over to her name.

>> I do too. >> And if you keep evading this, it is going to follow you. You've got to deal with this. Stop trying to move stuff over here and move it over here into the bankruptcy. Just deal with it. We've seen people do this, Chris, and you've you've done all these kind of little maneuvers and you think it's funny.

>> Hey, you called us. So, I'm going to tell you something. What you're doing, there's nothing funny. It's scary.

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Not available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Chelsea in Idaho. She says, "My daughter recently graduated college and we will be traveling for the final step of a job interview soon. She's already passed the first three steps in the process. Is it ever okay to request your expenses be

comped by the company you are applying to?" She estimates the airfare, Uber,

hotels, meals, and 3 days of missed wages at her currently job at her current job will run her roughly $1,000.

This would make a huge impact on her monthly budget for a job she doesn't even have yet. Would it be inappropriate for for her to email the company and ask

for reimbursement for at least some of these expenses?

>> Yes, it would be wildly wildly silly. Not even inappropriate.

Just ridiculous. >> You're guaranteeing she doesn't get the job. >> Uh, and Chelsea, I'm honored you sent

the question to us, but the fact that you're asking us this concerns me.

>> U, this is entitlement 101. You are not

entitled to your expenses for applying

to a job. >> If your money is tight, it's not that their fault. >> My goodness gracious. By the way, this is the world we live in where parents are showing up to job interviews uh and

then the kids are complaining, "Mom, it's going to cost me $1,000." She goes, "I'll tell you what. I'll email the the Ramsy Show people and see if that's appropriate." It's not appropriate.

It's called the cost of living.

>> I'm I'm mildly irritated right now.

>> Get Get all the way irritated.

>> Yeah. >> I want to see what happens. >> I don't want to. >> Okay. >> I God bless you for the question, but

no, please don't do that. and explain to her why. I'm not sure you know why

>> it's not done. It's unreasonable. Yeah.

>> This is you trying to win the job and you're competing against other people.

And you don't say, "Hey, this cost me a,000 bucks to travel here to apply." They're going to go, >> "We don't care and we don't want you here because you're too soft." >> Mhm. And you're already causing you're already drama. Let me tell you, Ken, 101. >> There you go. >> When you're This is just from being in entertainment. When I used to be in entertainment, my agent would say, "Just show up and do the job. Don't be drama.

If you're a drama, you could be the best on stage, but if you're a drama, they'll never have you back." Like, just go. It could be the worst room ever and go, "This is such a nice place. Thank you for having me." Like, everything is a graciousness, not hey, you know, the

M&M's were a little bit uh there were too many red ones in the dish. Could you This is there's there's too many red M&M's in my dish. Yeah.

>> And you got to when opportunity knocks, Ken, you have to be ready to answer the door. That's on you. >> I just looked in the drawer over here. I thought maybe there beat some Tums. I got a little indigestion right here on that question.

>> Right there. You know what I'm talking about, people in the lobby. You know what I'm talking about. It's going to be a little something there.

>> She got it. >> Are you for real? >> She got the Tums right there. >> Lady Lady James just She just reached up with a bottle of Tums. So fantastic. By the way, I do not endorse them. Uh, it's just a fun joke. All right. Uh, Jane is up in Washington. Jane, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, so about 10 years ago, we took

the Financial Peace University, sold the SUV, bought a minivan instead,

and worked our way up to step number four.

Life happened, and we're back down at step number two. With the number of emergencies that we have had in the last seven years, I want to be stockpiling money. I want to get that six months of income or of

household needs saved up before we

tackle the debt that we had to take on a couple years ago. >> Okay. Well, let's uh let's go ahead and head that idea off. That's never something that we would recommend and and Jade will walk you through why, but let's first get a picture of where we are. So, at one point you were working the baby steps and you got to baby step four and now all these emergencies.

You're saying the emergencies are responsible for the debt and and if that's true, how much debt do you have now?

>> We only have $9,000 in non-mortgage debt right now.

>> Is that on a credit card?

>> No, it's a um personal line of credit for we had to have the sighting replaced. A storm came through, damaged

both our roof and our sighting.

>> You didn't have insurance? >> You couldn't.

>> Hello. >> Um, I It didn't even occur to me to go through the insurance when we did this four years ago. The house was livable, but the roof was leaking and the sighting was damaged enough on somebody

replace the whole thing. >> Are you sure? or did somebody make the decision and say, "We don't want to submit this claim because we don't want our premium to go up and so we'll just take out debt."

>> So, my husband and I are firsttime homeowners. >> Neither of our parents ever own their homes.

>> And I guess in the discussion years ago

when we were having that, maybe it was part of the we didn't want the premiums to go up. >> That feels right. >> But this was Yeah. So the $9,000 on a

credit card is solely based on you've mentioned several emergencies. Yeah.

Tell us. >> So what emergencies are coming up in your life that that have put you in a position where you believed that you had to do $9,000 worth of credit cards?

>> Um well we had uh one child who was

failure to thrive and for two years I was unable to work taking care of that baby. >> Okay. Mhm. >> Um we have another child who is special needs. So the one who is failure to thrive is doing fine now.

>> But we do have one who um has some special needs and that impacts my ability to work. >> Okay. >> So um we went from two incomes to one.

>> Okay. What's your household income?

>> Credit card.

>> Um it's we're hoping to hit a 100,000

next year. This year my husband was laid

off this year. Okay. Okay. >> Three months out of work. >> Okay. >> Um but he with his new job, he'll be 100,000 next year, but not this year.

>> Okay, great. And are you able to work outside the home?

>> Uh not outside the home now.

>> Okay. Um >> I do I do some work online and bring

home about $6,000 a year.

>> Okay. Uh and so Okay. So, I want to give

Jade I want Jade to answer the core question as to why we would not have you

work on Baby Step three ahead of Baby

Step 2, which is only $9,000. And I know that may seem like a lot, but in the grand scheme of things, Jade, very doable. >> Yeah. So, I just want to make sure it's just the two kids or are there more?

>> Uh, just two home now. >> Okay. Two home. Um

I think life has hit you with a lot and because of that it's kind of inflated uh

the feeling of the debt more so than it is. Um, you mentioned before that, you know, it took seven years, you know, you've been in this for seven years. And so, I just feel like there's been a lot that's happened that much of it has not

much to do with the debt, but it all kind of is conglomerated together in your mind. Cuz when I look at this right now, I go, "Oh, $9,000 of debt. Why

isn't that gone in two months?"

Because if you do the budget, it's >> our household our household needs are

high enough that >> help me help me understand why because what it sounds like is >> help me understand where that is because what I'm hearing is in a generalized situation, rent is usually the highest or mortgage is the highest. And then the second highest thing if there's kids is some form of daycare. And usually that's those are the two that are kind of causing things to be really tight. Um cuz your debt's not the problem. The $9,000 debt is not what's breaking you.

Is there something more in the equation that you're not telling us about? Are there cars? Is your mortgage a crazy amount of your take-home pay?

>> No. So, um food and medicine.

>> Say Oh, medicine. >> We spend >> Yeah, we have um certain medications, you know, insurance covers so much.

>> Um but yeah, between food and

>> we're not in any medical debt. Tell me right quick cuz we're Tell me right quick cuz we're up against the clock and I'm sorry, but tell me what you spend in medication and tell me what you spend on your mortgage.

>> Uh we spend $1,500 a month uh between food and medicine and $1,200 a month on

the mortgage. >> Okay, this this shouldn't be a problem.

I think that you guys need to get on a really really tight budget. I love that you know your numbers, but pay that $9,000 off. It's going to take you two to 3 months to do it and then stack up as much money as you want to to keep the

big bad wolf away from your door.

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Hey everybody, you need insurance. And

uh nobody really likes digging into insurance, right? You know, you need it.

>> George does. >> George kind of does. Outside of outside of George, nobody does. But we know it's hard to uh it's hard to figure this out.

Um and uh that's why we have our Ramsay

trusted insurance pros. And you're never

going to deal with sleaziness salespeople. We've vetted them. They're going to coach you up, make sure you get what you need. And uh you can find them by going to ramseyssolutions.com/coage.

ramiesolutions.com/co

and uh you can connect with a Ramsey trusted agent or you can click on the link in our show notes. All right, Doug is up next in Connecticut. Doug, how can we help today? >> Hey, how we doing today?

>> Good. How are you, sir? >> My excellent, excellent. Thanks for taking my call. Um I got two questions.

One's a The first one's a real simple quick yes or no. I hope. Anyway, um you know, Dave talks about doing 15% uh in retirement after you're completely debtree besides the house. Um that 15% my company does it a 5% match. So is that 15% like 10% that I put in plus the

5% is 15% or is it 15% and whatever the company matches is added bonus basically? >> Yeah. Yeah. Typically we think of it as whatever the company adds is the added bonus.

And that's just the reasoning for that is if for some reason you went to another job and they didn't have that bonus, you would still be in the rhythm of giving 15% of your income. Like that's just a great way to do it. And since you're debtree except the house, like if you wanted to go above 15%, you could. And I think it's a good idea if you do.

>> Totally. Yeah, absolutely. Um, okay. So the main question, thank you very much.

Appreciate that. That answered a lot of questions for me. Um, so situation, FPU graduate 13 years ago. I just started listening to podcast like two months ago and rediscovered Dave and I've listened every day.

So, love you guys. Thank you very much.

Um, so my situation is this. Uh, I have

$23,000 in an emergency fund. That is my

uh that's about five months of uh expenses right there. 280K in retirement, which I recently stopped uh contributing to. Um, I have zero credit card debt. I'm single. I don't have any kids. I make about 140 to 160 a year

takehome. Uh I take home about 6,500 to

9,000 a month depending on the season.

You know, winters are a little little slower. Um I do have a mortgage, but I

uh failed with the car. Uh I got a car

literally a year ago. Um >> financed it. Um however, I got I took a

three-year loan on the car and they were offering 0%. Okay. >> So I figured, oh, I'm going to beat I'm going to beat these guys up because, you know, I got 0%, right? you know, it's payment is $1,000 a month. Um, which is

comfortable. I can get by, but I also get a $600 a month car allowance from work, right, to go towards >> basically whatever I want to put. So, in my head, I'm thinking, yeah, $400 a month out of pocket. No sweat. It's all good. >> But, um, like I said, 0%. I currently owe 26,000 on the car.

>> Um, and with doing the Every Dollar Budget, uh, app, I literally last month found an extra $140 uh, uh, of, you know, extra income.

>> Great. which I already put towards the car. So, I'm down. I want to get rid of this car. I just with a 0% loan, I can't

see how and a lot of people can't see how it makes sense to take my money that I've been saving up 23,000 for the last god knows how many years it took me to get there. Sure. And just throw it at the >> Why did it take you so long with this great income? Did you have You're single? Yes.

>> Uh yeah, I have a girlfriend, but yeah, single. Yeah. >> But why did it take you so long? Or is this new? Is this income new? I mean,

>> no. This is no income's not new. Um I've been with the company about seven years.

Um and I'd say the last couple years I I built my book of business. So, you know, I'm definitely, you know, the income's been growing year after year.

>> Okay. >> Uh yeah, and like I said, I just I just I had I had a car that was paid for uh before I got into this car, but I'm 45 years old. I'm 63 250 lbs. So, a nice

little little car is not doing it anymore. So, I needed something a little bigger. So, I went with the SUV. Right.

So, >> wait a minute. Wait a minute. I've heard a lot of reasons for keeping a car. I think that's I think that's >> you act like you're an NBA player.

You're not that big. >> Yeah, I know.

>> I think you like Listen, I think you like the fact that you got 0% interest.

I think you like the fact that your job is kicking in the $600 a month and you're like, "Hey, what's the big deal?

It's $400 a month. It's for three years.

Do I really Jade have to, you know, Ken, do I really have to pay this thing off?" And the here's where I I'm just going to tell you where I see risk. Where I see the risk is if you got fired tomorrow, you'd be on the hook for a car loan and you'd be on the hook for the whole thousand dollars. And I'm always going to tell you to go the path of least beneficial risk. Like there's times where risk could be beneficial, right?

You there's a certain amount of risk that you take when you take out a home mortgage, right? But for the the benefit outweighs the risk in this case, there's

risk there. Do you really need a is it going to affect you? I think it could.

And I think that you could easily pay this thing off and just be like, you know, give the finger to the whole thing and just say, I don't need a payment at all. I have money by bye, Felicia. And just pay it off. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. No, and and I I agree. And at the end of the end of the day, like I said, I just did just started the every dollar budget. So, I'm sitting there like, if I could literally find an extra >> three, four, 500.

And I probably would have found more money, but I had two vacations last month. So, yeah. And at the end of the day, I could I could easily probably find an extra five, six, seven, $800. Who knows, you know, at the end of this month, and throw it towards the car.

>> Now, let me tell you what I do. Let me tell you what I would do, Doug.

really appreciate. I love this money.

It's so helpful for me. I'm planning on paying off the car." I did the I did the math and I found out that if you paid me the $600 over the entire length of this car payment, it would amount to x amount of dollars. Is there a way since if I if

I proved to you that I paid it off in full that you'll still give me that money as my stipend? That's what I would do. Does that is that fair, Ken? You're the >> I'd want to do a little research before I took that proposal to them.

Like, you know, >> because if they're going to pay it anyway. >> Yeah. I just want to >> Go ahead. >> Yeah.

The car allowance is more for like repairs, brakes, auto because I I drive my own car. I put about 25 to 30,000 miles on the car a year on the outside sales.

>> They give it Oh, I get it anyway. Yeah.

If I have no car payment, I'm getting that money regardless. >> So, Doug, you called us. I think we're talking all the way around this thing.

>> Doug, we're we're dancing all around this thing. You called to say, "Yeah, what what was your question? Your core question. Should I empty my high yield savings account, which is where my emergency fund is, where I'm getting four 4% uh uh interest on and just

basically dump it maybe minus a,000 to keep my emergency fund, you know, >> it's like you've listened to this show before the car. >> Yes. >> Yes. Doug, how much do you have in your emergency fund?

>> 23,000. >> And how much is to pay off the car in full? >> 26. >> Do it. >> Done. And then you build the emergency fund back up. You got a great income and you're single. Stop the vacations, man.

You're living high on the hog, buddy.

>> You know, you could build you could build this. You're golfing. Yeah. Like, I mean, it listen, that's the plan. You empty it out. You save $1,000. So, you're going to have $1,000 in there.

>> You're back to You You see what I'm saying? You pay the car off.

>> Absolutely. >> And now you're back to baby step three.

You get the three to six months and now you can go back to, you know, your vacation single guy and all that. This should be an easy fix for you. Easy fix.

>> So, I I I agree. And that uh it was one of those things where I've been since I've been listening to you guys, like I said, I rediscovered the the baby steps.

Rediscovered Dave and I had I basically went from baby step one to three, back to two, and and you know, >> you need to discover yourself without a car payment. >> Yeah. Yeah. You're playing financial twister. You know, right hand on red, you know, left foot on green. Uh-huh.

>> No, we don't have a financial twister plan. We have the baby step plan and you just got to follow it. And here's the good news for you, Doug. Like, you have the means to do this immediately.

>> Yeah. >> And now you got yourself a paid for car.

How's that going to feel? >> That's baller. >> Yeah, it's going to feel great.

>> And an unbelievable deal from your company that like I would take that 600 a month and stack that. >> Yes. >> For any car replacement, anything. Oh,

come on. Give him that. Give him that.

Give him My my computer's dead. I want you to go to ramiesolutions.com. I want you to look at the investment calculator and I want you to plug in if you take that $600 and you just drop it in your investments for the next 20 years what that's going to be and your mind is going to be blown. >> Douggee Doug 100%.

>> Yeah. >> All right. I agree. >> There you go. Yeah. Thanks for the call.

Don't over complicate it.

>> You know, I I hate to do this, but they're not my steps. Dave came up with them, so I can refer to them and be kind of obnoxious about it. Yeah, >> I mean there's a reason why there's one and then it leads to two >> and then it goes to three. >> It's called a system.

>> I mean pretty simple stuff, but I love

that. I'm going to give Doug, by the way, the caller of the day award for the

rationale of being 6'3 about 240. Is

that what he said? >> I I'm like, are you trying to get a date or keep your car? What's going on? >> He's like, I got to get a bigger car cuz I can't just fold up like an accordion in this in this sedan. Like the guy is a

tight like he's an NFL tight end. Come on, man. >> On that, I should be riding around on a bicycle. I'm a little guy.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman and we're going to go to Matt who's joining us now in Fort Worth, Texas.

Matt, how can we help today?

>> Yes, sir. So, as of this past Monday, I

had a truck that I've been paying on for about two years. I had an auto loan for

about $30,000 on it. I owe about 27 or I'm sorry, $23,000 still on it and the

motor blew up. Um it's unfortunately

just a bad design from General Motors.

>> Um they've had issues with this vehicle or these motors um for substantial amount of years at this point. >> Um and I am now falling victim to said bad design. Um, it would be about

$15,000 to have a mo uh the motor replaced. Um,

and I'm trying to decide if what's my best option for it um before I try to go trade it in and then it'll be upside down on it. >> You owe 23.

>> Yes, sir. >> Uh, if you get the motor fixed, if we could snap our fingers and it was just fixed today and it was paid off, is this a truck you'd be happy to drive for a while? And could you Uh, oh, the truck's in great condition.

Um, other than that, um, if the motor were to be fixed, um, there is a company that sells a motor that has the system

that caused it to have this issue in the first place, uh, deleted, and that's the option that I went and got quoted from when I talked to the shop.

>> Do you have the 15,000 in cash?

>> I do not.

>> What do you have in cash? Uh, I I don't

have much. Um, my girlfriend just

finished school and I was basically the

primary provider um for about a year and

a half with us. >> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How old are you?

>> About 30 years old. >> You're 30. Okay. You compliment to you.

You sounded much younger. >> You did. You did. >> Uh, why are you the primary provider for your girlfriend? You guys aren't married. >> Is she 32?

>> No, she will be younger than me. How old is she?

>> She is 27. >> You really don't know how old she is? You had to think about that. That's kind of funny to me. >> That's a different issue.

>> That's a whole another deal.

>> Different show. Different show, but I'm going to go ahead and tell you, you probably need to be on top of that one.

Um, okay. You should So, you need to

come up with 15 grand. What do you make?

>> I work in public safety. Um, so last

year I made about 70,000. Um, I'm probably on track for about the same this year. >> And and and um if you weren't helping

provide for your girlfriend, it's just you, right? Just rent or do you own a home? I mean, what's what's the situation there?

>> No, it would just be rent and my normal expenses. >> And um I'm sorry for following up on this. Is is she able to support herself now?

>> Yes, she's working full-time again. She just started with the the school year.

>> Jade, >> she works as a um a American Sign Language interpreter and she started interpreting with a school.

>> Yeah. All right, Jade, I don't know where you're at on this, but I there's there's a part of me that goes because he's already upside down in this. The tradein option to me is just foolish.

You're just not going to get anything at all. I'd rather see him working two, three, four jobs. >> Yeah. >> And come up with 15 grand to get that truck fixed. and then and then got to

swallow the pill and pay it off. But if it's a good if it's if the truck's in good shape other than this defect,

>> yeah, >> that again, I'm giving you the answer on what I would do. >> Well, yeah. I mean, if you roll out the numbers, if we if we looked it up and said, "What could you get for this with the bad engine?" I mean, what is it?

What would your be your estimate? >> Do you have any idea?

Yeah, I've been um shopping around with a couple different uh dealerships. Um I

reached out to GM recently because or I'm sorry, GMC because they have the highest rebates and stuff right now because >> what they say >> uh GM would give me 9,000.

>> Okay. >> GMC 9,000.

>> I mean, cuz if you think about it like that and then you add what you would have to kick in to cover the upside down plus to get another vehicle. Do you see what I'm saying? you're still shelling out $15,000. So, that's kind of the numbers on it. I I can't see

why you wouldn't just at this point. I hate it, but yeah, I don't think the numbers are good for you either way. So, it's do you want to keep the car and pay the 15,000 or do you want to get out of the car and get another beater, which I

don't think you do. I think you'd rather drive the more the the nicer car of the two if you can just get the money. Uh,

>> I've tried that. Um, >> you can't go into debt for this. I'll tell you that.

>> Like if you end up if you can't find the money and you end up having to go the other route of, you know,

>> okay, >> if you cuz here's the thing. If you do a personal loan to get from upside down, your numbers are going down. And I can I can advocate for that, right? I can advocate for you getting out of debt and then having to get a beater car and taking out a personal loan to do that, right? What I can't advocate for is you taking out a personal loan to keep a $23,000 car that you were already in debt for. Does that make sense?

>> Mhm. >> So, if you can't come up with the money,

you might be going down in value.

>> But I'm sitting next to a person who who uh with her husband, they had one car for how many years?

>> A decade. So, where there's a will, there's a way. And what I'm saying is is is figure out a way >> to to get where you need to get. And uh I think you can come up with 15 grand pretty quick. A single guy who's able-bodied >> now. You might have to stop taking care of your girlfriend. >> Oh, no. That's done. I'm already assuming cuz she's just your girlfriend.

She's a she's a grown woman.

>> Uh you got problems,

>> you know. >> Yeah. So taking care of her problems aren't isn't your problem. >> You can't you can't. >> You know, in fact, you guys have been, you know, playing house for apparently a long time anyway. So no date nights, no nothing. You got to come up with 15 grand stat.

>> Did we lose you?

>> No, I'm still here. >> Yeah, it's a bitter pill to swallow.

>> It is. >> Uh but I I just think the way Jade broke it down is great. And that just again, we're always trying to answer things like what would we do if you were in your shoes? And >> if you can get the money Yeah.

>> without debt, yes, keep the car. It's it's you to your point, it's going to be a great car when you get it fixed. But you can't you can't do debt. I can't let you take out $15,000 of debt to and put

it with a $23,000 debt. I can't let you do that. And you should say that to yourself, too. And go back and listen to this call, right? Don't come off this call and go, "H, I can't get 50,000. I'm just going to do marinate on it." Because when you do, you're going to see, oh man, the last thing I want to do

is go from being $23,000 in debt, you

know, to being 30 $45,000 in debt. That

would be terrible. >> I agree completely. Are you stunned?

>> Yeah. Um I've tried going that route. I just haven't been able to find a a place

to be able to do that. Um, I initially did attempt to contact my bank um to try

for a personal loan because other than

the faulty design, I don't have an issue with the truck. I enjoy the truck. I've been driving the truck for 2 years and it's been great. Um, >> so then what do you think your option is? because you're either

you're either not getting the car fixed or you're listen your other option is take the time however long it takes you to save up the 15,000 and in the meantime you're taking the bus and you're riding your bike and you're getting Ubers and you're calling up Leroy to hit you up for a ride like that's that's your option >> that's what I that's what I think you got to do >> I don't think he likes that option I'm not even sure he heard that I went through that painstakingly I think it went in one ear and Not the other.

>> Listen, it's not fun. That's why >> it's not fun.

[Music]

[Music] All

[Music]

right, folks. You've been paying attention to the news. You know, the Fed just cut the rates for the first time all year, and the 15-year fixed mortgage rates have dropped to the lowest we've seen in 11 months. If you're financially ready, now is a great time to buy or sell. Why? Some of you are going, "Ken, I'd like to play the market. I'd like to see the rates come down." Can I just give you a little opinion here? Little off the talking points opinion.

>> Yeah. >> Thank you. Uh here here's what could happen. If mortgage rates continue to

have a slight drop, you're not going to see it, in my opinion, drop back down to the twos. But if you have a slight drop, here's what's going to happen. People are going to get back in the market.

>> And as demand grows, guess what else is going to happen?

House prices go back up. So for some of

you are going, I'd like to see that rate drop. I'm playing the rate game. What you don't understand is as rates drop, housing prices will go back up. It is supply demand. So, I'm not pushing you to buy right now, but even though these rates are elevated from where they were several years ago, I'm telling you, Jade, it's just supply demand and it never fails. >> Reminds me of a song.

>> You're not going to get this one. Had to make it to the top just to see how hard they drop. >> Yep. Nothing. >> No, nothing. Forest Frank. No one.

>> Oh, okay. Never mind.

>> She got it. >> Oh, there's a lady in the audience that's clapping. Forest Frank fan. Um, I'll be honest with you.

I'm a little embarrassed. I'm not even sure who that is. >> That's okay. >> Is that bad, James?

>> No, it's not bad. >> Okay. James knows everything about music. >> They overplay him in the Church Heath group, so I'm kind of over him.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, it's a Christian artist. >> It's a Christian artist. That's why I said it was a deep cut.

>> Boy, oh boy. >> Listen, he's doing his thing. >> Good for him. >> And it's it was a great analogy for your real estate.

>> So, here's the point. Uh, now might be the time to buy. Thank you, Jade.

folks, I never know any music reference.

It's just it's terrible. >> It was a deep cut. >> Yeah, I like that. Uh but here's the point I'm making, now might be the best time from a home price situation to jump in or to sell.

All right, so if that's you on either side of that coin, you need a pro to help you. That's why we have our Ramsey trusted real estate agents that are standing by in local all across the country. You can find one for free at ramseyssolutions.com/agents.

That's plural. Ramseyolutions.com/agents.

All right. Julia is up in Bend, Oregon.

Julia, how can we help today?

>> Hi, I'm honored to speak with you both today. >> Good to speak with you. What's going on?

>> Thanks. Um, I have a two-parter for you.

Um, I want to make sure first I'm like budgeting appropriately and putting the right amount towards debt given my income and then with some upcoming

fertility treatments on the horizon. Um,

whether that should be kind of cash flowed or do like a mini stork mode to stockpile some cash.

>> I like this question. Uh, tell us more.

>> Um, okay. So, let's see. Debt. I just

have 12,000 on the credit card. Um it's me and my husband and that's the main thing we're trying to get through.

>> Um next is a home equity line of credit which based on the amount I'm putting that with our mortgage. >> Great. Okay. >> Um so luckily it's not very much consumer debt. I just feel like um we

should be able to pay off more and just things come up every month it seems like that >> hinder our progress. >> What's you guys' income?

>> Uh we make 144,000 gross. um end up

taking home just under 8,000 a month.

>> Um and what we've been able to do is rent out some rooms in our house and we part of that HELOC was completing an ADU >> so that we can get some additional income. So we have about 3,300 coming in

>> now just as of last month. Um >> in addition to the >> I think that's going to >> Exactly. So I think that's going to be a big help. >> Um but yeah, that's all kind of new.

>> Okay. So what's the fertility treatments costing you? is are you cash flowing it currently or you haven't started yet?

>> Um I we've been cash flowing up to this point of it's just been like a five-year journey unfortunately and we're finally at the time of like probably needing IVF or something. >> Okay. >> Um so >> what I'm looking at is my insurance thankfully covers up to $10,000 of assistance there, but I have to meet my deductible of 3,000. So, I'm assuming we're going to need more than that because IBS can obviously cost way more than $10,000.

>> My question is, do I >> Sorry, >> what's the top end? Like, if you were really like running it through, like what's what's the most you could spend >> or that you would spend? Let me put it like that. >> I mean, I don't even know because it looks like it varies by state, but it looked like in Oregon maybe like 10 to 15. Hopefully not more than 20.

>> Okay. Um, you know, my thought on this is if if anybody else called in and said, "Hey, we're thinking of having a baby and they became pregnant, yeah, we

would put them in stor mode." In your case, becoming pregnant uh is the cost

ahead of time, right? Like everybody else gets pregnant, then the cost comes.

Your cost comes ahead of time. So, I would I would still treat it the same way. I'm not going to tell you to uh wait to pay off debt uh to try to get pregnant, but I will say it must be done in cash. I think that

>> this is you going in on a bet and it you

don't want to go into debt on that >> because that definitely could add deductible. >> Mhm. >> Right. Of like 3,000.

So I guess that was my question is like do I stack up that three grand so we at least know when we're ready to start we have that or just cash flow that as we go which I think we can do. >> If you can cash flow it I would cash flow it. If you can do a little of both I think that's great. If you can cash flow this fertility and keep paying off the 12,000, I think that's winning.

you're finding that, hey, we we literally don't have enough cash to do both of these. If you have to put less towards your snowball, that's fine. If you have to cause it to pause briefly for a couple of months, I think that that's fine, too. Especially since you said like age- wise you're getting getting to the end of this. Um, I would do I I mean, if if I were in your shoes trying to do what you're trying to do, I I would do that. Ken.

>> Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. Uh I I

can't add anything to that at all. And I listen, can I just say on a personal note, I was listening um Stacy and I went through your journey and it's really really tough and u you know, just

hang in there and uh these these days of uncertainty can really eat away at you.

So certainly understand where you're coming from, but please don't make >> and not to say that you're planning to, but don't ever let the emotion drive you to a poor financial decision to put you in a bad spot. You guys walk through all of that. And so I just wanted to add that one little I can't add anything financial advice, but as hard as it is, I just believe there's a plan and I believe you're going to be a mama one day. That's all I want to leave you with.

>> Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's tough stuff.

you know, these numbers, you know, just you look at the data out there and I just feel like I'm supposed to say something about this, not just to her, but to our larger audience. >> You know, we see the infertility numbers continue to kind of move up.

And, you know, there's >> there's nothing harder >> for young couples who want to start a family to have that

need, desire unmet. And it it it can be

really tough. >> And so, here's the point that I'm making. it. You can really rationalize Jade >> doing >> going into untold amount of debt >> to go my heart longs to be a mom or a dad >> and we're going to do whatever it takes. And you have a lot of people encourage you and the reality is you just don't know how all that's going to play out.

>> Yeah. >> There's no guarantee on these treatments. >> That's right. >> Except for the bill coming due.

>> Yeah. You want it to end well and but it's sad when it doesn't. >> That's exactly right. So, uh, I what I

here's what I want to encourage people that may be listening, watching in the situation. >> If that's the case, and I say go all in, but go all in and be able to pay cash for it. So, sacrifice in other areas of your life, >> right? >> Don't sacrifice your future, >> right?

>> On the altar of the immediate where you want to do whatever it takes to to become mom and dad. And I just would say, you know, >> sell the house, like change your living, like, okay, we're going to go backwards a little bit in every other area of our life >> so that we can start a family. It's a it's a very tempting thing.

how tough emotionally, I'm sure you've walked that through with other ladies in your life and friends. We're all kind of touched by friends that have gone through it. Just please don't fall into that emotional trap. >> I agree. >> To where you can rationalize debt because it's going to make that existing pain even more painful. So, tough stuff

there, Julia. Thanks for calling and sharing transparently with us. We're rooting for you here. You got this. Hang in there. Better days are ahead.

[Music]

All right, let's go to William in Pennsylvania. William, how can we help you today?

>> Hi. So, I got two questions. Uh, my main question is, uh, investments. Uh, since I'm actually able to put money aside and save up a lot more, I'm wondering what places I can invest my money into for the best results in the long run.

>> What do you >> I'm very young and I'm hoping to be able to have a lot more than just a 401k whenever I it's time to hopefully retire if I'm ever able to. >> How old are you?

>> 22. >> 22. And do you have any debt?

>> Uh, yeah. I have a house and two vehicles. >> Wow. >> Oh, boy. Tell us about those first before we get into the investing.

>> Okay. So, last year I closed on my first

home right before my 21st birthday. I

moved in around September 3rd, I believe, was my move in date. Bought all the furniture outright, had the closing costs figured out, had the down payment figured out, >> and I owned three vehicles completely. I

bought them all in cash. >> Great. >> And once I figured out, I don't know, how much money I was making. It's not a lot, but for this area, it's quite a bit. >> What do you make? >> I was able to do uh right now I make $27

an hour. >> Okay. And uh I appreciate all the time.

>> Southwestern. >> Yeah, I get it. >> Yeah, for southwestern PA, it's it's substantial. >> Okay. 27 bucks an hour is great. But uh you said you have two car loans. What what's how how much are the car loans

>> uh combined or like separate?

>> Separate. You had two cars, two loans.

>> So, uh my first vehicle would be my now

wife's vehicle. Uh we paid 15,000 for it

and I did have to get a loan for it and I pay around 300 a month for it.

>> So, you owe 15 on that one >> just about. >> Okay. And then what do you owe on the second car?

So, I just bought a truck about three weeks ago and it was 23,000. I pay just

under 400 a month for it. Oh.

>> And what do you take home every month from your job? >> Combined we combined we both take home around $6,000 a month.

>> Okay. So, and what do you pay in your mortgage payment?

>> My mortgage is 600.

>> Wow, that's good. Okay. Um,

I'm afraid for you because you're starting a trend of debt.

>> A bad trend. Yeah, >> I understand that. I was told and I just realized that a couple weeks ago.

>> Okay. I'm glad that you And so you agree then you're you're like, "Ah, I can't keep going down this route, right?" >> Oh, no. That's the last purchase I'll be making for a long time. Good.

>> If I ever do again. >> Okay. I'm glad to hear you say that. Um,

so you started out with an investment question. I will get to that. I promise.

Ken will make sure of it. Um, but I did I I did want to address the debt. So, you do, if you've been hanging out with us for a while, you know, can we do say that you do need to be paying off your debts before you invest. And there's a lot of reasons behind that.

>> Of course. Yeah. >> Right. And you want to make sure that when you do invest, you're able to invest an amount that's really going to move the needle for you.

And you have the fullness of your income at your disposal to do that.

and your wife getting together and saying, "How can we quickly uh tackle this uh $38,000 of debt using our $6,000

a month income so that we can regain

700 bucks a month in payments?" Right.

That's the first plan. So, do you have Every Dollar?

>> Uh what do you mean every dollar? >> So, Every Dollar is our budgeting app.

It's It's really more than a budgeting app. It's giving you your whole financial snapshot. Yeah. So, you'll spend I'll give it to you for free and you'll spend, you know, five minutes telling them your telling the the app your situation and it's going to craft a plan specifically for you and it's going to help you find the exact margin that you need to pay off this uh $30,000 of

debt. >> Yeah. >> And as long as you follow the recommendations, I promise you're going to get there because it's going to tell you exactly what Ken and I would tell you here in this room, which is, yeah, list them smallest to largest. Start with the 15,0001 first, but it's going to look deeply into your budget and find money that we can't see through the phone line.

So, that's step one. Now, let's talk about your investing question. Ask it ask it again so I don't miss it.

brand spanking new, but you know, I don't want to just have to rely on that in 50 years from now, if you know, if I'm even able to retire. Why >> I don't want to just have that?

>> What do you mean? >> Why? I I'm trying to understand you. Why does that bother you to have a 401k?

>> I just don't want that to be the only thing I settle with. >> What do you want besides that? That's just a traditional retirement account.

So, you want land. You want what what what do you want?

>> I mean, I would love to buy land.

>> I would absolutely love to, but I just I just I'm new at everything. I just graduated almost 5 years ago. That's >> true. You sound You sound older than you are.

>> You do. I'm You're an old soul. I I think Jade needs to give you I'm going to have her walk you through the baby step plan and strategy so that you get this and she can touch on the investing so that you see the big picture. >> I I do want to I'm I'm actually going to go in the reverse order of what Ken said.

>> She's going to do the reverse of what I said. >> Reverse. Reverse. >> Sounds like my marriage.

>> My bad. >> Great. All right, >> Stacey. Here's what I think we should do.

Oh, you don't.

We'll do what you want to do. >> Sorry, Ken. Listen.

>> No, it's great. Go for it. No, keep going. It's great.

>> Okay. Okay. So, let's talk about the investment part first. So, uh because you're not the only person with that question.

So, if you were saying to me, Jade, uh I want something other than a 401k because I want to be able to retire before 59 and a half, I'm with you. If you said, Jade, I just don't like the idea of all my eggs in one basket. Can I have something besides a 401k? I just love diversity.

I would be right there with you. And I am.

have gone beyond a certain baby step, all of those things open up to you. Um, and I want to talk about that. So, to Ken's point, we talked about first just save up a I'm gonna walk you through the baby steps. First, just get a thousand dollars saved. Do you guys have any money saved anywhere?

>> Oh, I Yeah, we just paid off the wedding. We just got married last weekend, actually. And after all that, I may have not done it the right way, but I did it. Everything is paid off. The only thing we owe is our debt now.

>> But what do you have in my safe? And I have money in the bank. In the bank, I probably have around $4 to $5,000.

That's like my But my cushion is what I call it is my cash I keep in my bedroom.

I have just under 10.

>> Oh, okay. So, you got $15,000 total.

Excellent. That's just what you need.

>> If I don't have money, I get nervous and I freak out. I need money.

>> Okay. Well, I'm about to freak you out for a minute, but it's so that you can feel your best in the end.

If I were in your shoes today, William, I would take 14 of that 15 and I would

pay off your car.

>> And I know I >> Yeah, just like that. And I know I just like swept the knee right there. >> He's breaking out. I The hives are they're hitting his neck. I can see it on the other end. >> Yeah. Um, I would do that because you

what's ultimately going to get you what you want is to free up this income and the debt that's just it's like a it's like a dead weight around your ankle.

Okay? And we got to clear that out. So, if you did that today, right, and you cash flowed the other thousand because I always want you to have $1,000 saved.

You need something.

You would have $300 freed up today immediately. And then you could take that and throw it at keep throwing it at the debt, right? And how quickly could you have that $23,000 uh car paid off, right?

>> I could have that paid off like the middle of next year, maybe three/4ers of the way in next summer, hopefully. >> If you both worked extra, you could have it done by the end of this year. Uh yeah, by the end of the year. Yeah. 12 months. >> Yeah. >> So, and then you'd have that extra $700

and you and your wife could stack up, you know, 3 to six months of expenses.

That's baby step three. And then after that, you're investing 15% of your income into your 401k. And 15% ain't too

shabby. Like if you keep that going.

>> Yeah. >> You know, and then after that, we would say, hey, now let's take, you know, take a moment and focus on putting a little extra aside for your kids. This is another form of investing. It's called a 529. You can throw a little in there, whatever you decide. And then you can say, "Okay, let's start paying off our house because we value real estate, right? You wanted that diversity." So you start paying off your house. Most people who do this, William, pay their house off within 7 to 10 years.

>> Yeah, I was hoping to pay it off in 15.

So >> Okay. Okay. Even great. I love that. If you do it in 15 years, again, love that for you. Now you've got a piece of real estate. Now you've got your 401k. And then if you say, "Hey, I kind of like this land deal. Let's keep saving up money and buy another piece of land. Or let's keep saving up money and I want to open another type of investment account.

I just want to open one that's not tied to retirement to where I can invest the money and get to it whenever I want. You can do that. It's called a brokerage account. There's so many options for you, but you must walk through the steps in order to free up the income in in order to do it. So, that is the caveat.

You need the income that you're now paying in payments.

>> One step at a time, William. We believe in you.

[Music]

Our [Music]

[Music] scripture of the day comes from Deuteronomy 28:12. The Lord will open to you his good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season and to bless all the work of your hand.

You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow.

>> Our quote of the day, this is kind of scary, from Stephen King. Oh, >> not a Stephen King fan, but I'll go ahead and read the quote. What separates the talented individual from the successful one is a lot of hard work.

>> Oh, well, that's not Well, the hard work is scary. That's the scary part.

>> I guess I should stipulate I don't know him and don't have any I just don't like scary stuff. >> I don't either, >> James. I'm that guy. When I'm in the movies with my wife and it's the previews and the horror comes up, I literally close my eyes.

>> I do too. >> You do too. >> Listen, I don't want that stuff going in my brain. >> I do too.

And I haven't even I haven't seen Shaw Shank Redemption, but he wrote Shaw Shank, too. So, he does he has a lot of stuff outside the horror genre. >> I didn't I didn't I did not know that. I did not know that.

>> I had him as just a horror guy and that's why I had to crack. I don't no position against him. I don't like his work. Let's put it that way.

>> Yeah, that's good. That's good. >> Actually, now I'm second guessing. Oh, yeah. It's based on his novel. Yep.

>> Wow. Wow. That's a That's a classic.

>> James pulling the feather out of his hat today. Very impressive. Jenna is up in New York. Jenna, how can we help today?

>> How you doing? Um, I'm literally losing sleep over a decision I have to make by tomorrow. Oh, and what I'm struggling with is whether to give a friend $900

who hasn't responded to any of my calls or texts for like three years. And then she suddenly reached out and she's literally begging me for help to pay off a storage unit lean that she says needs to be paid by 4 days from now. and she

said it holds all her worldly possessions. So I contacted the storage

company directly today and in doing so I

learned she actually owes double that amount and I'm kind of uncomfortable with the variety of the details they gave me. But it als I could get the

money, but it would be a financial hardship for me. But I'm what I'm torn with is I'm feeling so guilty because what if this was me >> and because like what if this was me and like the way she worded it and stuff and but at the same time >> it would be a a boundary, you know. I

just >> I love this. I love that you called us because you need somebody that's objective. Jade and I have zero feelings on this deal. Uh, so I'm going to ask you a couple questions. We're just going to rewind. When she first requested the $900, what did your gut, what did your body, what did your brain say?

>> Well, I just felt so sorry for her because she hasn't talked to me for years. >> No, no. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Let me re ask the question to make sure you get what I'm asking. About the $900 when she

If she'd have asked for $9, what would your brain have said? What would your body have said?

>> $9. Yeah. >> Okay. If it was $90, what would your brain and your body have said?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. When she asked for 900, don't tell

me all these other things. What did your brain and body say when you processed $900?

>> Um, it was hard because I'm trying to follow some advice from you and pay off my mortgage. >> Yes. And you just told us that $900

is a hardship that would be brought on yourself to help somebody pay off a

debt. And this somebody's not even in your life. They haven't even returned your calls. They haven't even had the common decency to return a text. This is

a hard no from me.

>> Jenna, >> but she did return. She reached out three weeks ago and then I got the text two days ago. >> That's fine. That's fine. But can I ask you a question?

>> If I said today, Jenna, it is your mission to go out into this world and earn $900, could you do it?

>> I think I could. >> Okay, that's your answer. Cuz your friend can too. And is And the question I also have

is, is this still your friend?

Well, you know, we were close and she went through all these things for, you know, time's sake. I won't go through it that she shared when she called me and

she says she's getting a contract in the middle of the month and that she would pay me back. >> Well, oh, Kaiba, I'm going to put the kibash on this right now because here's the here is what I will say. If you

decide because this is your choice. If you decide to give her the money, you are giving it to her. you cannot lend her this money. You either give it to her out of the goodness of your heart and out of the detriment to your own budget and to your own life or you don't

do it at all. You cannot lend because if you lend >> if you lend it to her, you are not helping her. You're just moving the debt and now you're straining an already strained relationship.

>> That's why I called because I needed to hear you say that cuz I knew that's what you would say. >> Yes, ma'am. Listen, you didn't even tell us, nor do we need to know what are the other details that you found out from the storage facility. But it it screams to me that you're not getting the full story from this >> fake friend. This is not a real friend.

And I'm going to say it. Real friends.

>> I just feel very not generous.

>> Well, Jenna, that's your problem on how you feel because I can tell you,

you're a generous person. The fact that you're even considering helping this fake friend tells me you're generous,

but you've got to make a good decision for you.

>> Not a good decision for her. Do you do you understand what I'm saying? >> Also, also, can I just throw out there

um guilt and generosity don't live in the same house? Like, they don't live in the same >> You don't give out of guilt. You give out of the abundance of joy.

>> I think she's manipulating you. This is a person who did not return your calls, did not return your text. Three weeks ago, when she knew she had a problem on the horizon, she thought, "Hm, I better hit Jenna up, start acting friendly again. I think this smells, this stinks

of manipulation.

This is a fake friend. And I don't give

nine cents to fake friends, much less $900." >> Yeah. Yeah. This is really really think

about that, Jenna. When you give, it should be out of a cheerful heart, not a guilty heart, not under compulsion, not under, oh, what are they going to think of me if I don't give that is the exact opp matter of fact I would say wait until if you are still thinking about it, wait until all those feelings dissipate and then if you can really look at this and go, I am just so grateful to help my friend. I have the money. I feel joy about it.

I feel good about it. Do not give with a guilty spirit. That is not that is not generosity.

>> I got another thought just now. Jenna, how much is she actually owe? Was 1,800, right? >> Yeah, 1,800. And that's just the rent.

So that means they won't take a lean if she pays it by the 23rd of the month, but she told me Tuesday. But she still would owe lean fees and and late fees.

And then the first of the month, she has two units. She has a $900 payment and a

786 payment on the 1 of Octo November.

>> So, Jenna, >> so I don't feel like I'm helping her because if I give her this money, then she's getting the next money. >> Yes, Jenna, I wish you could see our studio audience. They are shaking their head. You just came into the light.

>> Uh you you actually just you took you took us where I was trying to take you.

In other words, the $900 isn't even

going to solve the problem. And that tells me, >> and I hate to say this, Jade, but I'm old enough now.

>> Do it. >> To have lived enough life to know that she's hitting several people up for $900.

This stinks, as my grandmother used to say, to high heavens. There's an old phrase from the South, >> Jenna, this is bad news. And I am hoping to remove any unnecessary guilt. You are

not a person who has done anything wrong. Thus, you should not feel guilt.

But you're such a kind person, Jenna.

>> That I just keep hearing my mother say that's not Christlike. So, I just >> Well, that's another problem. We're now arguing with our mother. >> All right. >> And is probably no longer here.

>> So, listen. >> I guess I did need that non-objective opinion because I knew if I give her the money, it's not a loan. I'll never see it again. >> I'm gonna say a final word. >> You don't even know if she's going to put it on the storage. >> I I got a final word on this, Jenna.

>> You know, >> the reason you feel guilt is because you think that not wanting to pay her is wrong. That's actually right. And I'm going to flip it on you and say that if you give her this $900, that's wrong.

>> Entitlement, baby. >> It's stupid. It's not good management of

your money. Therefore, Jenna, it would be wrong for you to give her $900.

It's my best shot. >> Stand business, Kim. >> Where's my hat? >> Where's your hat at? >> Oh my goodness. Remember folks, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 89. If You Want Wealth, Stop Being Dumb With Money | May 18, 2026


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:31:52 |

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This is an ad for Better Help. You work so hard to be the strong one for everyone else, but you're running on empty. The pressure to show up doesn't just disappear, it takes over your life.

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studios, this is the Ramsay Show. Rachel

Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and co-host [music] of Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at8825-55225. [music]

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly [music] what you pay for it. Daniel's with us in Indianapolis. Hey Daniel, what's up?

>> Hey, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve, man. How can we help? >> Uh, so I'm trying to figure out if I should file for bankruptcy. >> Ooh, that sounds scary.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> What's going on?

Um, so right now I'm married and we bring home $7,700 a month together, but

um, she's talking about separating and so on my own um, I only make $ 38.50 a

month, so I'm upside down um, quite a

bit at the end of the month.

>> Okay. What um, what's going on with your marriage, hun?

>> Um, not really sure.

Basically, there's just a lot of resentment for um how I was the last year and a half.

Sorry. >> Okay.

How you were? What was what what were you?

>> I'm not very present.

>> Do you guys have kids?

>> Yeah. I have a six-year-old daughter.

>> We have a six-year-old daughter. >> Mhm. Well, typically when there's an overwhelming amount of stress having to do with money, it's the number one cause of marriage fighting and divorce.

And so if you're if you're thinking about bankruptcy, that means you're in a mess. And that's probably at a minimum contributed to your marriage issues, if

not being the major cause of your marriage issues. And then we blame it on or we pointed something like saying, "You're not present." Yeah, I'm not present cuz I'm totally in my own head trying to figure out how I'm going to get out of this dead gum mess. So, um that that could be very possible. So, how much debt have you got, hun?

>> Um not counting the house. Um, I mean

the cars 14,000 and then um got about 13

on an HVAC loan and then uh

19,000 on one credit card, 1300 on

another credit card and 4,000 on another credit card.

>> Okay. >> Were you guys using >> and that's all your debt you and your wife other than your home? Um,

and then Yeah. And then a fourth credit card at 4,000. Sorry.

>> Okay.

>> All right. >> Well, it's about 70 I mean, you're you're close to 75,000 in consumer debt.

Was the credit card spending, I'm just curious because there's multiple with, you know, relatively high numbers on it. Was that to keep things afloat when you guys were paying bills or was that just discretionary spending that you weren't even aware that you were doing?

>> Stupid choices on my part and trying to

fund Christmas without talking. >> Have you been running money by yourself?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right.

>> Has she had does has she did she have any awareness of where you guys were at at this level of debt?

>> Not not this level. No.

>> So that's part of what she's pissed off about, too.

>> Um, kind of. Yeah. >> Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. Well, this has come out after the fact. >> We're almost bankrupt. Yeah. I'm pretty mad at you. Yeah. Okay. That that could happen. Um, >> but it came out after the fact. So, everything kind of hit the wall with the marriage. >> Yeah. >> And then other things started coming out in conversations and this being one of them. >> Yeah. >> How long How long have you been married?

>> Uh, 13 years in August.

>> Okay. Are you guys plugged into a church at all? >> No. >> Okay. All right. Um, well, here's the

thing. The math says you're not

bankrupt. If you stay married, you could clean this up fairly quickly, working

together, [clears throat] but that involves staying together and working together and a whole mindset change on

everything having to do with your relationship, you and your wife. But mathematically, if you got 7,700 bucks coming in, >> you could plow right through a debt snowball on this and get on beans and rice rice and beans together, take extra jobs and attack. And everybody having full transparency, knowing what's going on, watching these debts fall away, cutting up the credit cards, never going back again, living on an every dollar budget where both of you see every expenditure and know what's going on.

She's carrying the stress of the family with you while you're carrying the stress of the family together. That's called being a couple. and we work our way through this. That is doable.

>> The only question is are both of you willing to sign up for that.

>> Yeah. >> This time she's not.

>> Okay. Well, I was going to say more importantly, are you guys are you guys willing to sign up for the marriage too?

Right. Like there's >> there to a point I have John Deloney in my head when he talks about >> can you go to marriage counsel? You're at a point that I mean you I mean the way you're making it sound the only way to really save the marriage at this point is it's a complete excavation of

what was and you guys write an entire new story which is going to take a lot of work working through a lot with a professional having a therapist or a counselor involved. Um and and as you do all of that, right, you are looking at the things impacting your marriage and money being one of those. And so as you're going through and rebuilding marriage, you're doing the debt snowball, right? And so, um, that that [clears throat] that feels like >> I feel like I'm missing something here. Has she moved out already?

>> She is in two weeks. >> You you broke up. Say it again. Has she moved out already? >> No, she's planning to move out in two weeks. >> Okay. To where?

>> Uh, an apartment.

>> Has she signed the papers?

>> Yes.

>> Did you do Was there something major, Daniel, just versus you not being present?

Um, no.

>> All right. So, what I would love to have

happen in your old story is for the both of you to sit down and say, "Before we do that, let's go see a marriage counselor and see if we can begin to put this thing back together." And, as Rachel said, write a new story. Now,

that that's the best outcome of this conversation. Um, and so if I were you,

when I hang up, I would find a marriage counselor, call Better Help, call somebody and get on the phone and start asking them how to talk to your wife about coming as one last ditch effort to

sit down with a marriage counselor.

Okay? Because I think this is salvageable. I'm not hearing any reason here to end a marriage. Um, but uh but

anyway, I I think you guys get in that if you can't or won't you you can't control what other people do. So, she just says, "No, forget it. I'm done." >> Yeah. >> I'm I'm out. And And I That's after you

talk to a counselor who tells you how to talk to your wife, be present about talking about possibly saving your marriage. Not you just saying, "She's not going to do it. Dave, that's not an acceptable answer. You've got to put some effort into this." Okay. Now, if after all of that and the whole thing still goes up in flames, then you've got this debt. you're still not bankrupt.

You're still screwed, but you're not bankrupt. Okay?

>> Because uh basically, you're probably going to end up with half of the debt. She's probably going to end up with half of the debt in most states >> and you're going to end up with child support and you you you know, you've got a $4,000 month income. She's got a $4,000 month income to work with towards the debt. And um the house is going to be sold and that's going to pay off a lot of the debt including the HVAC and the car may be sold, but probably you're just going to pay it off and then you're going to plow through some credit card debt together and you're going to figure out who's doing what.

You're going to end up doing it together whether you want to or not >> because both of them got both your names on them. Even if the judge says that one's yours, that one's yours. Until it's paid off, it's not done.

but this can work. It's a lot harder

doing it as two separate entities, though. Everything in life is a lot harder. Raising this kid is a lot harder. Everything is harder as two separate entities. So, save your marriage.

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[music]

Michaela is in San Diego. Hi, Michaela.

How are you? >> Hi, Dave and Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. [music] >> Sure.

What's up? >> I'm I'm calling in with kind of a two-part question about business cash flow concerns. My husband had worked at this business for over 20 years, and we recently bought it. We took out two personal um $50,000 loans to pay the previous owner and to start the business.

But now, after 2 months, we're feeling a lot of stress in our new marriage. feel like we're only paying debts, not making any progress, and can't breathe anymore. We need guidance on how to manage the cash flow so we can try and get ahead.

a month, but the income varies between $40,000 and 70,000 depending on the month. My second question is, >> you paid $100,000 for a business that breaks even.

>> That's he told us it didn't. He said that it had a significant cash flow, but we are finding that we're only breaking even. He said it's a slow time period right now.

>> Did you look at previous books of the business like the last 12 months before you bought it to see seasonality if that is true?

>> He didn't really offer that and we kind of went on good faith because my husband had worked for him for so long. Um, but I'm realizing now that maybe we should have. >> No, not maybe. Absolutely.

>> Yeah. Yeah, you you stepped up into a bear trap. Um >> yeah, [sighs] what kind of business?

>> Um it's an appliance repair um business.

>> What is the 50 to 60,000 in re in overhead on appliance repair?

>> Mostly it's payroll. There's um six technicians, but we're also paying for health insurance, um rent, um software

insurance, um let's see what else. auto insurance um website

leases on the vehicles which I don't agree with but >> so the six um uh um

technicians are not working all the time. >> Well, there's three office staff and three technicians. We did used to have four technicians and one quit during this time frame. So, we're trying to hire a new one. Um >> why would you want more expense?

We're hoping that he can also bring in more income.

>> And why would you have that hope if you're not already overwhelmed with business? >> Yeah. Um >> are you guys turning down a lot of business? >> No. Right. Right now they're they're pretty busy. I think um my husband's schedule he's booked out to next week.

So not turning down a lot of business, but um we're at least a day or two busy

all the time. Yeah. Okay. So, here's the thing. What

you you have to ask what must be true for this to work. And so, um revenues

have to go up and expenses have to go down for this to work.

>> That's a basic business premise, right?

We all know that. And so, that's what you've got to start asking yourself. What I can I do to get revenues up and get expenses down? And none of these things are going to be easy. They're all going to be painful.

like your husband's going to be working like all the time. Welcome to being

self-employed.

>> And the technicians, you're going to get them to where they're so busy they can't breathe. And then you're going to bump your rates and start charging more. And then you're going to lay off one of the three office staff or two, and you're going to be down there doing the books.

Um, and then you're going to look at getting rid of these leased trucks and get some old trucks that show up cuz nobody gives a crap what you're driving if you fix their dishwasher.

>> Yeah. The hard part is that I'm active duty military so I can't move there yet.

>> Okay. All right.

>> And I'm debating if I should pause my TSP savings um to put that money towards the debt. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. You guys got to clear this debt and you got to you got to stop everything and get where you can breathe. But the point is, the more you move into increased revenue and decreased expenses and more margin in your personal budgets, the the the more

there's a light at the end of the tunnel. That's not a train. And then you can, you know, the problem with where you are is if you feel like you're stuck there forever, that's an untenable place that creates unbelievable anxiety. But when you're in a hard time, but you can see your way out doing some hard things, well, the brain will help you do that. That's where where is your husband right now living? You're if you're in San Diego, where is he? >> He lives up in the Fresno area.

>> Okay. And you guys are newly married. How long have you been married?

>> One year. >> Okay. >> Were you deployed or something?

>> No, we just met um living in two different locations. >> When are you guys planning on being in one location together?

>> Next next year. I'm I retire next year.

>> Okay. I'm just wondering does he have this level of stress as well because you're the one calling us and you're not even in the same city in the with the business.

>> His [clears throat] stress is easily two to three times what mine are.

>> And so you're just hearing it. You guys are talking through and you're like I'm just going to call and see what they say. >> Yes. Exactly. >> Okay. >> And you don't owe this former owner any money. >> We owe him almost 400,000.

>> HOLY MOLY.

YOU PAID $500,000

for a business that doesn't make a profit.

>> That's what >> fixing dishwashers.

>> OH MY GOSH, KIDDO.

>> YEAH. >> YEAH. You got screwed.

Wow.

Unbelievable. >> Okay. So, what is she doing?

>> Listen. Hey, here. I can help you with this [laughter] real quick. Call the former owner and tell him to come get it. Come pick up the keys, buddy. I'm

done. >> You just walk away >> and walk away >> with a h 100red,000 and just pay it off.

>> Pay the 100,000 off and call that stupid tax. >> Call him and tell him to come get the thing. >> Screw this.

>> You got hammered.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

For a business to be worth 200 $500,000,

you need to be making a profit of $150

to $200,000 a year.

And you ain't going to see that in your lifetime out of this thing.

>> And I think that's what he told us that it was worth. >> Yeah. Well, he's a liar.

>> Okay.

[clears throat] >> And and and I I'll be mean. Can I be mean for a minute? You first.

>> Y'all were dumb on how you did this.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, you believed this guy just cuz your husband used to work there and he got a paycheck instead of actually checking out the freaking numbers. You signed up for a half a million dollar trip around the sun and didn't look at a stinking number. Just trust some good old boy.

>> Yep. >> That's like walking in front of somebody sque Oh my gosh. Bless your heart. Yeah.

You got a mess. This is not going to end well. I'm calling that owner and saying, "I can't do this. You sold me a pig and a poke. I'm done with you. And uh there's no possible way this thing is worth anywhere close to what you sold it to me for. Uh you screwed me. And here

I'm leaving. You can come pick up the pieces and tell your husband to move to

San Diego. Move to San Diego with his new beautiful wife and get a job.

>> And then y'all scratch through your stupid $100,000 worth of debt. And when you look back on that, you'll say, "That's the dumbest thing we ever did. Cost me a hundred grand." By the way, I've done dumber things that cost me more than 100 grand.

But I But but but man, I can look at myself in the mirror and go, "You are stupid, Dave, when you did that."

So yeah, you this is not recoverable.

I'm I'm turning this over to this guy.

I'm serious. You're not going to work your way through $500,000 in debt. And

the seasonality part is of appliances

that I'm like, >> but dishwashers don't break in the summer more than the winter >> or less than is what he's telling them.

>> I know that's just absolute bogus.

>> Uh if it was heating and air, maybe we'll talk about it. >> There is there is some there's some come and go on heating and air. But that you said appliance repair. Appliances aren't on a schedule for repair. Refrigerators don't go, "Oh, I'm going to wait till after Christmas to break." They don't do that. So that this guy's full of it and

he sold it to you and he's sitting over there grinning going, "Look at these fools sending me checks. No more checks for Bubba. Nope. I'm done." >> Okay. So, how does that really quickly?

>> I'm serious. You're probably going to get yourself sued. >> I was going to say legally. What do you How do you do that? >> But the other thing I would do is when he sues me, then I would counter sue him for fraud >> and say you lied. This is verbally. This is what was said. >> When you lie to do a business transaction, that's called fraud. >> Yeah. >> And this guy was fraudulent. He lied about how much money this business makes. I promise you he lied. Way

seriously lied. And the dumb part was you believed him. So you get to you get to you're probably going to get sued.

You're probably going to have a counter suit and you definitely got to pay the hundred grand that you borrowed from real people. Oh jeez.

>> Sorry, Michaela. >> Yeah, this is awful. I'm so sorry. I'm a gasast on your behalf.

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[music] Okay, now that I can breathe again, um

let's give a little bit of recap [music] to um talk about how to value and how to

buy how to purchase a small business.

Okay, a small business is a lot of work.

I've run one most of my life and Ramsay today is a $300 million business. It's not that small anymore, but it's at its heart a small business. and I coach about our our Entree Leadership team and I coach about 10,000 small businesses.

We'll be with 3,000 people next week at Disney at the Entree Leadership Summit event teaching leadership and business acumen to small business people. So, this is something that we do. It's not just a random guy who gets people out of debt that this poor lady Michaela called and had gotten herself into a mess. So, it's good for us to uh part of what we

want to get out of this is to help the individual caller that calls in, but we also want you guys to get a lesson and

learn and inspiration from and so forth

anytime we take a call on here. And so, that's how we decide who we're going to talk to on the air on this show. So,

backing up then, number one, small

business is all-encompassing.

It is the hardest when you own your own business. It's the hardest boss you'll ever work for. Your boss will work you

to death when you're your own boss.

It's hard.

It is not to be taken on by someone who got married 20 minutes ago.

Bad idea.

Okay. It's a strain on you physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and it's a strain on your family. >> The stress of it all. >> Yeah. Yeah. When I started this business, I worked 16 hours a day. Uh,

five, six, seven days a week. Um, you

talk to my wife Sharon when Rachel was a little bitty kid and this business was growing up that [snorts] she felt like a single mom a lot of times and she for all practical purposes was that's what a small business is. You don't do that on a weak marriage. You don't do that on a new marriage. And you don't do that when both spouses are not fully engaged. You don't do that when you live in separate cities. So, rule number one, violated

two rules right there. Okay, before we get started, rule because it's hard, y'all. >> It's really, really, really hard.

>> It's a season of grind when you sign up for it. >> When you when you buy a business or you start a business, it's hustle and grind.

>> Mhm. >> Hardcore. And that's okay. But know what you're signing up for. And it's not going to make everything better. It's going to make everything worse for a while. And uh but the the idea is we're

going to make more money and have control of our destiny and that makes thing better over time. But that's not where it starts.

Then the second thing is if you're going to buy a business, you investigate and expose every single number in the business, all the accounting and particularly the tax returns

because they may lie on their accounting and they may lie to you. Most of the time the tax returns are going to be some semblance of accurate. And if they

say to you and you're looking at a business, "Oh, don't pay attention to the tax returns. We actually make more money than that." What they're saying is is we are lying to the federal government on our tax returns, committing fraud, but we're trustworthy.

That's what they're saying to you. So run away when someone says something like that. Okay. The tax returns are the number. I look at least at least two years, but probably five years. Yeah. I want to see the trend line of the profits over the last five years. And what are the profits they actually paid taxes on?

Now, if you take $100,000 and put it into a good mutual fund, you can make 10 or 12% pretty much any year.

So, if you were going to take $100,000 and buy a high-risk small business where

I'm going to have to pour myself out and hustle and grind, you need to make a minimum of a 20% rate of return on your

business.

Okay? And you need to make a probably a 25% rate of return. So, here's how that translates in valuing a small business.

You look at the net profit after everyone is paid, including the guy that works there that hasn't paid himself.

If you weren't working there and you had to hire a manager, you take the manager salary out and you

have the net profit of the real business

if you're an absentee investor to determine what kind of actual revenue this business is creating. Because if he's just paying himself and that's all, you're not buying a business. You're just buying a job. You don't need to buy a job. Just go get a job.

But don't buy a job. So if it pays $100,000 and that's all it pays and and you can make $100,000 doing something else, well then don't pay to buy a business that only pays you what you would have made putting up nothing to work for somebody else. So don't buy a job. Instead, after the after everybody

is paid, if I'm living over here in Tennessee and I'm buying this and the thing will operate over there completely, what is the net profit then?

And if you want a 25% rate of return, you multiply that number times four and that's the value of the business. If you want a 20% rate of return, then you multiply by five and that's the number.

So, if it made after everyone was paid

$100,000, it's worth four or $500,000.

If it made $10,000, it's worth 30 or $40,000,

which means don't buy it >> and it's worth 10,000. That's right.

What they what they should have paid exactly for that business >> instead of a half a million dollars. If you'd actually looked at this Goober's tax returns, you would have seen that after he got paid, the thing had no net

profit, which is what they have discovered now that they're running it instead of just working there. The skill

of being a technician inside of an organization is different than the skill of owning and operating a business. You can be a very smart

graphic artist, a very smart software

engineer, a very smart accountant. You

can be a very smart anything and not know how to run a business. They're different skill sets and you have to consider that. So, if you're a heat and air guy and you've been working there 20 years and the heat and air guy wants to sell you the heat and air company, you're not qualified to run it yet.

You've got some skills. You got some metaphorically tools you need to put in your belt to get ready to run that. Cuz you can fix an air conditioner doesn't mean you can run a heat and air company.

Because you can sell real estate doesn't mean you can run a real estate company. It means you can sell it. That's different. So, you've got to consider those things when you're valuing out and deciding, is this an appropriate purchase for me? And then lastly, if you

have to borrow money to start all of this, you've increased your risk a 100 times. Don't do it.

80% of the small businesses fail in the first five years according to Small Business Administration, which is really not trustworthy organization, but it's the only number we've got. Eight out of 10 don't make it. And if you're in the restaurant business, it's 95 out of a 100red don't make it. So just because you can cook doesn't mean anybody's going to buy your barbecue.

It just means your neighbors liked it when you gave it away. That's all that means. You're not qualified yet to operate a barbecue joint and go $250,000 in an SBA loan and now we've got Dave's Barbecue.

Not so famous Dave's. Right.

>> I think there is a Dave. There was a Dave's barbecue. >> Yeah, there just occurred to me as I said that. Yeah. But the uh you know, see what I'm saying? So that's the thing. You've got to dig into this. If if and you know why 80% of those companies fail, those little businesses fail?

Cash flow problems. Cash flow problems are created by two things in small business.

Not paying your taxes because you're taking all your money home because you didn't have enough money coming in to eat and now you starving to death. And so you don't pay your taxes. You don't pay your quarterlys. or worse than that, you hold you don't turn in the withholding and if

you don't pay your one your 142s, they're going to come get you forever.

That's not bankruptible. You're going to get it. That that's the withholding numbers, okay? On on your employees. You have to turn that money in. You can't keep that money. Wow. And guess what?

The other thing causes cash flow problems is the debt when you went and borrowed money to start and run this business.

And so one of my friends is sitting out here and he paid off a half million dollars on his business and that means he's the exception of the rule. He made it out alive.

Most people don't make it out alive when they do that. They don't make it. Don't sign up for that trip. It's not worth taking.

>> [music]

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[music] Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And right now things are crazy out there. Interest rates are down. House prices are starting to change again.

Things are moving. If you if you're thinking about buying a home or selling a home in the market like this, you really need somebody knows what they're doing in your corner, not somebody that got their license 3 weeks ago and you go to church with them. Sorry, Charlie at the church, but that's uh unless you've been doing a bunch of real estate deals, we don't want you to be we don't want people to list their house with you. We want people to list the largest asset they have with somebody that really has a proven track record.

So, that's how you become Ramsey trusted.

To find a local Ramsey trusted real estate agent pro for free, go to ramseyolutions.com/agent or click the link in the description.

Nia is with us in Boston. Hi Nia, how are you? Or na na.

>> Yes, it's Nia. >> It is Nia. I got it right the first time. Okay. How can I help today?

>> Yes. So, I am currently in baby step

number two. I have $112,000

of debt total. Um, and I am just trying

I'm struggling with being in a long-distance relationship and essentially staying intense while also still investing and prioritizing that as well. >> How far is the relationship? How far how far apart are you guys?

>> Um, four hours. >> Okay. How long have y'all been together?

>> So, it's a year and a half.

How many times have you physically seen each other?

>> Um, once or twice a month.

>> Oh, okay. Good. >> All right. Good. Cuz I asked that question one time and the lady said never. [laughter] >> And I wanted to make sure what I was dealing with. So, okay.

>> All right. >> Well, that's what I'm struggling because I recently just picked up another part-time job. I do have >> So, what do you what is your career and what do you make?

>> So, I'm a property manager and I currently make 65,000 a year.

>> What about him?

That's a great question. >> What does he make?

>> Um, that's kind of a struggle in the relationship, but um yeah, >> it's a struggle because he doesn't he's he's not working or he won't tell you.

>> Both.

>> He won't tell you because he's not working and he's ashamed of it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Has he not worked for a while?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So why >> why is he not coming to see you then?

>> Yeah, he ain't got nothing to do.

>> He does. There's a tradeoff. I mean, it's just like that's the struggle and know ideally it would be to live in the same state, but I >> No, no, no, no, no. Stop. You did not answer the question. You completely deflected. This guy's got nothing to do.

Why are you driving to him?

>> Um because he says it's more comfortable for me to go there. >> Yeah, I bet it is. He does a lot of things that are comfortable for him.

It's more comfortable not to work, too.

[laughter] >> Oh, no. >> Yeah. >> Is it bad? Do you see it's bad?

>> Do you not hear yourself?

>> Yeah. >> Oh, man. But you love him, you know.

>> Oh, well. >> Shoot. Uhoh. How old are you?

>> I'm 25. >> Okay. >> You've been together a year and a half and you're just way more way more mature than he is. and he's going to be a husband that's going to everything about him right now will be magnified in marriage. So

>> yeah, >> all the good and all the bad.

>> Mostly the bad. >> And not that people can't change and grow, but for the most part, he doesn't sound very proactive right now to come to you or to get a job. Oh, no.

>> Okay. So, not talking about the debt snowball, which is actually how you framed the question. Then we got all up in your personal business. I know. Sorry. But personal business is there because it's personal finance. So, um,

you're going to [clears throat] be my, uh, 25year-old little niece for a minute

and I'm going to be old, uncle, ugly uncle Dave. Okay? And I'm going to love you. I'm going to love you like you're in my family. All right? So, if you had

a daughter, you need to think about what she would tell you or what you would tell her about this guy. The same stuff Rachel's telling you. Now having said

that if you want to pursue this guy that's fine. Uh but he needs to show some initiative in two areas to be worthy of you my princess.

In order for him to be worthy of you he needs to be a working man.

Period. >> Okay? >> And he needs to pursue you. Not you have to pursue him. He needs to get his little butt in the car and drive over and see my princess the niece

because you're worth that.

You're not He's not worth you chasing him.

You're worth him chasing you.

>> And if he can't do that, he's disqualifying himself.

>> Does that sound like good old uncle advice?

>> It does. Yeah. It's just I am like annoyingly obsessed with you guys. It's all I listen to and I'm just so sick and tired of being sick and tired.

>> Well, you're going to get out of debt cuz you're not going to be driving over there as much >> cuz he's going to be driving to you and you solved your problem. So now you can keep working your dead snowball.

>> But as long as you're distracted with this character um and you're the only one putting out all the effort and the money while he sits on his comfort self.

Um, so if someone's wanting to date one

of my daughters, comfort does not need to be a word that comes out of his mouth.

Discomfort while he serves and takes care of the princess that I raised sitting next to me. The good kind of princess, not a bad princess. And so when Winston when Winston Cruz came into

my house to talk to me about dating my

daughter, he he there are requirements

and being a productive young man is one of them.

>> Well, and can I be super probably a little prideful? I don't even think you had to say that to Winston cuz he was doing >> I've never had to. That makes [laughter] him that makes it okay for him to be there >> in college. You know what?

>> But I guarantee you I'm gauging that.

>> Yes. Yeah. And if you don't qualify, you don't get invited back. And that's the

mean old daddy. Dad, the boys in the youth group are scared of you. Good.

Keeps away wusses and jerks. Two things I don't want dating my daughter. Right.

>> Yeah. So, and productive is a good thing for a young man, a young woman.

>> For Yes. For anyone's soul in society.

And but again, not to be like overgeneralization with gender, but there there is something about a guy of going and doing something productive with his life. >> Highly unattractive to not do that.

>> So it's >> to the father of the daughter.

>> Well, that and then on top of that, I mean, seriously, but it'd be one thing if he's like struggling in the job market, you know what I mean? Like we hear lots of stories and situations.

Yeah. >> But the final but the but the straw of like he doesn't want to drive to you because it's it's uncomfortable.

>> A lot of job markets. I've never struggled.

Yeah. You run down Home Depot, buy you a leaf blower. Rich people are afraid of leaves. You can always find something to do. There's something to do. There's always something you can do for money. I mean, that's just that's >> I know. I'm just trying to give a little grace to [laughter] this situation. >> Yeah. He's trying to find himself. Yeah, that's good. But >> but my my my princess niece and what I

want you to do is I want you to stay in your town and invite him to come see you. And if he does, he might be worthy of pursuing. if he refuses to come see you on his dime and he refuses to become

gainfully employed, please move on.

However, while we're doing all of that, of course, we've solved the other problem. You now can work and work on your debt snowball and you're a productive person. You're a property manager, a professional young woman that makes $60,000 a year and more and you're

awesome. >> Yeah. >> Act like it. >> Yeah. And if you can work extra, you know, two $3,000 a month on top of anything you can squeeze out and anything that you can um sell in that you got a $50,000 car in that 112.

>> Sell the 12. Yeah.

>> Oh, that's what we were driving four hours away. Oh, good. Okay. Got rid of that, too. Yeah. Can't come see you. Got rid of the car. There we go. >> Oh, there's an excuse. [laughter] Like, sorry, I sold my car. Can't do it.

Oh, >> and my $7,000 card probably isn't four hour worthy of a road trip. So, hopefully do that. >> I'm thinking that Hooptie is not going to make the trip. >> So, um yeah, you got to be careful when you call this show, boys and girls, because we love you and we're going to treat you just like you were a member of our family or some of our best friends kids or something like that.

We're going to put our arm around you and tell you the truth.

Um, but we love you na na and we're glad you're glad you called in and I think you've got an incredible future, but I want you to put more value on yourself.

>> This is the Ramsay Show.

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>> $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited plan.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us, America. Rochelle is with us in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Rochelle. How are you?

I'm doing okay, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I'm trying to get some advice on uh

whether we should sell our house uh in order to pay off our debt. Uh, my husband wants to sell the house and move back to his hometown um to clear all our

debts and start over. And I'm just concerned that that's um not not the right move. And I'm also just emotionally overwhelmed. So, I figured I'd call for some advice.

>> That's nice. Thank you. >> Do you feel like the right you're concerned about moving back to the home hometown more or selling the house or both?

>> Um, I'm so sorry. I was sitting in my

car.

>> You okay? >> Um, yes. My husband pushed a button on

my car that made it beep.

>> Oh, it's okay. >> You're fine. You're fine. No, you're good. No worries. >> I'm walking down the neighborhood now.

Um, so my concerns I I'm just a little

emotionally overwhelmed because I do like our house and I like our neighborhood. >> Um, >> and you don't want to move to his town.

>> Um, well, there's pros and cons to both.

I'm just in a fragile state emotionally and I >> Yeah. also feel like um >> I feel like if we just move without changing the behaviors that got us here in the first place, we're just going to have the same problem.

>> 100%. 100%. That's true.

>> But if you if you change your behaviors with a fresh start, if if you change your behaviors with a fresh start, it could be a good move. So, what does he do for a living?

>> Um, so he is a security contractor. He's a professional bodyguard for a celebrity country music star right now.

>> Um, and his salary 7,100 a month whether

he's on tour or whether he's >> he will keep doing that regardless of where you live, whether you live in his old town or the current town.

>> Yes. Um, do that from anywhere.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. But on his off time that he is home, he was an HVAC um person with a

union job which provided us benefits and an additional 4K per month. He got laid off because of his unpredictable bodyguard job. So now we're only living on the bodyguard salary and he's doing

extra side gigs and picking up other security contracting and just kind of making it work, but we're just paycheck to paycheck. >> So how much debt do you has have not counting your home?

Um, so we have um 10,000 on his truck

and 16,000 on our van. Um, and about

14,000 in credit cards and about 3,000

in medical bills.

>> Mhm. >> Um, and we owe 8,000 to the IRS because

uh we didn't take out taxes properly last year for self-employment with security contracting. And so we've got to get a payment plan set up with the IRS for that. >> Okay. Have you been doing your quarterly estimates this year?

>> No. Um we have not because his security

work this year is um he gets the taxes

taken out from the salary. >> Oh, they changed it. They made him a W2.

Okay. >> Yeah. He got this salary job. So now now when he does >> But any of the side hustle stuff he does, you've got to set money aside and do your quarters. >> Yes. Exactly. Okay. All right. Uh, how

long you guys been married?

>> Um, I think like 19 years.

>> And how old are your kids?

>> Um, we have 15year-old twins and um I

have a 5-year-old, a fouryear-old, and a 22-month old baby and a 19year-old.

>> Yeah, that's overwhelming in general.

That's a lot. >> That would put me in a fragile state. >> Yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot.

>> Okay, so I'm I'm going to tell you this.

Unless both of you hate the house,

I would not sell the house.

I would sell his truck.

>> Okay. >> He never drives it.

>> Well, he just recently bought it so that he had something to get himself down to Kentucky cuz he his his country music star lives in Kentucky. He has to drive down there regularly, leaving me at home with the kids. >> Oh, I see. Okay. >> So, he bought Yeah. So, he does need a vehicle and And he can use the truck for side hustles as well. Okay.

>> Yes. >> All right. Then that won't work. But um so but but basically you've got what you're telling me is is the the debt you've got you can clean up >> if you guys lean into this and live on beans and rice, rice and beans for a period of time. Um but he's >> I'm not sure if we can. I don't know.

That's why >> I don't know why you can't.

>> Why can't you? because he said he's working his life away and he's so miserable and he just he's he's so tired. He's so fired up.

>> That's not changing. That's not changing when you move.

>> Well, he said that it'll be a lower cost of living and our debts would be wiped out. >> Yeah, but that doesn't change. He's still on the road all the time.

>> I'm working so he's talking about his side hustles are killing him.

Um, yeah. Oh, >> he's here with me now.

>> I think he's right there. >> He said that.

>> I don't care.

>> And whatever money he does make could go towards something instead of just scraping by. So, I >> Well, something could be like owning a home that your wife wants to live in in the neighborhood she wants to live in cuz she's got a freaking house full of kids while you're off on the road with a country music star.

Yeah. I I think that's part of the I think that's part of the gig you signed up for him, son.

>> So, yeah. >> Well, I'm not saying I don't ever want to move. I'm just saying I would rather us try to dig our heels in and get our our behaviors fixed first before we make a rash decision. >> No, you did say that. You're changing your story. You said, "I love this house. I love my neighborhood. I don't want to move." That's what you said.

>> I do, but I mean, I know I could be happy anywhere. You know, >> that's that's different. You did say, "I don't want to move.

>> I like my house." >> Not right this second. Yeah.

>> And it's not because you want to change your habits. You do need to change your habits. Both of you need to do that for sure. And you need to get on a written budget. So, what I would tell you guys to do is get on an every dollar budget.

Don't go out to eat. Don't go on vacation. Pour every dollar on these debts. Cut up every credit card. You take any side income you can do to create from home. He takes any side gigs he can take in addition to his uh bodyguard gig. And you guys tear into

this debt full throttle for six months,

12 months, next March, revisit this. And

if everybody's still miserable and we're all dying and the only way to fix this is sell the house, well then sell the house. But I don't think that's the problem. >> Cuz what's wild is if you got two extra thousand a month just to put at this, >> you'll be done >> in two years. Do you know what I mean?

which is long, but also not really.

>> Not only 2,000 extra, you already make 7,700 plus side gigs. >> Plus the side gig. >> Yeah. So, I mean, you get some extra, he gets some extra. You guys cut, but you're spending You guys got to quit spending money like you're in Congress, too.

>> How much How much is your mortgage payment?

>> It's 2400.

>> Okay, that's not killing you. Um, so you

guys do listen, do whatever you want to do, but that's what I would do.

>> Yeah. And I would look at the van and the truck and and and we've gotten more calls than not that actually their vehicles they actually have they're they're upside down or they're not upside down on it. And so if you guys can can do anything to even move those

>> because to me I'm like that's $26,000 of this. So >> you're not dude you're not dying from working extra to take care of your family and clean up the mess you made for one or two years. It's not going to kill you.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> There's a thing in psychology called cognitive [music] dissonance, which means that you are stressed

and there's a frustration level building up because things are inconsistent

in your emotions and in your brain.

frustration, anger, um all these types

of uh high energy emotions start to appear. >> Fear, >> fear, [clears throat] fear, >> stress. >> And when you have that around money and

you see a quick way out, like selling

your house to pay off all your debt, >> it re it tells you, I can make all of this uh psychological pain, cognitive

dissonance, go away if I just sold the house. So we're always looking for human nature is to look for the quickest way away from the pain. It is not always the best

methodology for your long-term health.

The quickest way away from the pain after surgery is not doing physical therapy because physical therapy is painful. But if you don't do physical therapy therapy after a knee or an elbow or a shoulder, it won't work.

it it'll freeze up. You have a problem.

So you have to lean into the pain to get the best long timeterm result. And that's usually true with money.

So what's painful in the you pick the uh

shortterm pain and the long-term gain in

any money equation? It's almost always the right one versus the short-term gain and the long-term pain. There's always a trade-off. So if you sell your most expensive asset, your home, it's very it's very mathematically expensive to move. It's emotionally expensive to move. It's relationally

expensive to move. It's the biggest

disruption you can cause to happen automatically in your life short of some kind of a tragedy.

And so it's the last thing we tell you to do. Now, if you've got a house payment that's 60% of your take-home pay, we're going to tell you to sell it regardless of the pain because it's not sustainable.

But just looking for a quick way out of your debt and cashing in your retirement and having a huge penalty in tax bill is

a short-term release for a long-term stup stupid move. >> Yep. >> Selling your home often is a short-term release becomes long-term stupid because now you don't own a piece of real estate anymore. real estate starts going up and you've boxed yourself out of the market cuz you're renting in your old hometown in that guy's case. So, when we say suck

it up, buttercup, play through, it's for

your good because it's it 10 years from

today it's going to be the best decision

to not go through a home move. Now, again,

if you have to, it's different, but but >> or if you want to, right? if they were talking about don't like the house.

>> I hate this area. I don't want to live in this state anymore.

>> That's okay. That that's a good point.

But but don't do it as the quick fix, as

the basically the sole motivation because I'm tired and I don't want to work extra. No, work extra. Be tired. It's

worth it. 10 years from today, you'll be glad you did. the 10 year from now version of you will like the current version of you better >> if you will pay a price to win.

>> Yeah. And I think what he said or what she said he said you know to a degree is very relatable that he's working his butt off and it's just going to payments like you you know it's different if you work hard and you make all this extra money. You get to do fun stuff with it.

But when you're in that season of sacrifice allowing that to be a driver

too of like I am pissed. That's why even like selling the cars, it's like, okay, when you do the math, you know, okay, what if I got a $5,000 car and 5,000?

How much extra was I having to work for that $5,000 that was sitting in a in truck equity that could be to this, right? Like, you got to be thinking about it. And that starts to like really mess with you and you actually see the hours I'm working, what, you know, if I could sell an asset >> to save on a day of working, I'll do that all day. Like, we'll just keep moving. >> Could she drive a $4,000 minivan instead of a $16,000 minivan? and cuz she's got

more kids than gee man there kids everywhere >> and um you know that kind of thing. So what we want for you is is to hurt in

the short term not the long term

>> so that you win in the long term. If you're going to choose pain, choose pain today that gives you the long-term result. The Bible says no discipline seems pleasant at the time but it yields a harvest of righteousness. And with >> and so the way I'm going to say that is or suck it up buttercup or it's the same thing.

>> Well, honestly, >> live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. >> Yeah. The short term, right? Sell if they sold the house and that's the gain of short term.

But long term, you think about it, the dynamic of even moving to his hometown that she wasn't crazy about could be long-term pain in a bit, you know what I mean? Bitterness in her of like, oh my gosh, we got stuck in the small town that I didn't want to be at the first place. We made that move four years ago. Right?

And that's that's a red flag for me.

>> What feels good in the moment is seldom the right financial decision.

It feels good to impulse a brand new car

and put nothing down and lease it and drive it off the lot. Long term, it's one of the dumbest things you can do. It feels good in the moment to buy something you can't afford, to eat something you don't need to eat. It feels good in the moment, but the long-term consequences to your health and your financial wealth are real. And

and so that's the trade-off we human beings make. The ability to delay

pleasure for a greater good is the primary sign, psychologists tell us, of

emotional and spiritual maturity.

Can I look at a great future and pay a

painful price to get to the great future? That's maturity. learning to

delay pleasure. I was looking at a was watching a uh a piece of research the

other day on um one of the podcasts that I follow. I can't think which one it was. One of the psychologists that's out there and they were talking about this study they did of uh seven-year-old kids

and they put them in a room and they put three marshmallows in the middle of the plate and they said, "Do not eat the

marshmallow." and they walked out of the room with, you know, two-sided mirrors and cameras and everything and watched them sit there. 100%

of the eight-year-olds ate the marshmallows. [laughter] However, some of them went, you know, 10 seconds. Some of them went 10 minutes before they ate it. The ones

that went 10 minutes, they studied them 15 and 20 years later, and they were inordinately more successful because they delayed. They had the even at seven or eight years old, they had the >> personality, >> they had the discipline to

avoid something that that is harmful.

>> You know, >> is that nature or nurture? Do they learn that in a household or you think that's part of your personality? >> I have no idea. I do know this.

Regardless of how you got there, once you're there, it's a choice.

>> Whether DNA got you there or your mom and daddy got you there, once you're sitting in front of the marshmallow, it's still your choice. [laughter] >> You still have the ability. It's so true. still have a choice.

I mean, you know, so it's, you know, we we do know now, for instance, that some people have a a genetic predisposition to being alcoholics >> more than others, >> right? But once you know that, then you still got to take a drink or not take a drink, right? >> You got to decide, >> am I going to am I going to do this or not? >> And um so, you know, who falls off the wagon?

Who doesn't fall off the wagon?

And and it really is maturity.

>> Sometimes we see it at a in a young person. We have a 19year-old call in here with the numbers are just astronomically amazingly positive, right? We're like, "How did you do that at 19?" And we're all agast at how wonderful this 19-year-old is. And we get that call on this show fairly often because we get those kinds of 19-year-olds around here. But but the reason we're all kind of so impressed is that he or she matured to that degree at

that young age. And it's not a chronological maturity. It's an emotional and a spiritual maturity. And so the the I think the way that I got

propelled forward in that category was when I was the opposite and was impulsive as crap. Did everything get rich quick, get rich quick, get rich quick. I went broke as a result. lost everything including my dignity [music] and I'm humiliated, not just humble and

sitting there with driving a $100 car.

You were born that year and and [music] I've got a bies I can't feed. And so I I

didn't have a choice. I snapped and went to the other side of the equation. And

so I don't want that for you guys as your method of learning. I'd rather just teach you [music]

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might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Matthew in Oklahoma. Dave, it's addressed to you.

Ready? >> Okay, >> Dave, back in the early days of establishing the seven baby steps, did you ever have to use your emergency fund? If so, what type of emergency happened that you felt warranted using

the savings account for? Huh?

Well, when I was climbing out of this,

there weren't any baby steps because I hadn't started teaching financial peace university yet. So, there was no starter emergency fund of $1,000 and later a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses. I just had the goal of the 3 to six months of expenses.

So, I did

use that emergency fund, the big one.

The only time that is specific I I'm I think it's the only time, but if it if not, it's almost the only time >> was uh that

um did I cash I'm trying I suddenly thinking I might have cash flowed. I might have cash flowed, but I think out of the budget, but I think almost 40 years ago. >> I think I used the emergency fund. No, it's not that long. It's um 30 plus years ago. >> Okay. >> So, we had just bought the house on Victory Trail. >> Oh, okay. Mhm. >> And um

um >> I was eight. >> Yeah. Yeah. You were 8 years old.

>> So, 30 years ago. >> 30 years ago. So, um, that heat and air

went out and it was $7,000 at that time,

which today would be $17,000, right?

But, um, yeah, the heat and air went out and I called a guy and he fixed the heat and air and I wrote a check and it was I I the reason I remember it, it was the first time we had a drama, a catastrophe

happen that we had the money and it was

just like an incon. That's when I came up with the phrase that when you have an emergency fund and you have an emergency, it's an inconvenience rather than a crisis.

>> You've heard us say that a 100 times, but that was every time before that that the heat and air blinked, it was a crisis because I didn't have the stinking money. And I I I the only

reason I'm thinking I might have cash flowed is I paid cash for the house.

So, and uh from a book deal that we had done on financial peace and um

but it's possible that I was low enough on cash that I used the emergency fund >> for that >> for that. But I that I I I have a distinct memory around it, so I must have. >> Um other times I know I cash flowed everything else after that, whatever broke or blew up or whatever. uh because we've always kept uh a larger amount of cash than most people because it gives my wife uh after what we've been through with bankruptcy and everything, it gives her an extra level of security.

that's been largely true uh in the last

in the last 35 years. So uh but in more

recent years, I don't think anything about it. It's all cash flow. I wouldn't it'd be very unusual for me to have an emergency today that I actually tapped into a store of cash certificates that that would be very strange. Um we did

not have to do that during co even in our business because the business never became unprofitable. So we never had to touch the um even though we lost huge

sums of revenue we never went into the red and so we never had to touch our retained earnings. So, it didn't happen then and that would have been another time that it could have happened. But, um, but yeah, that's that's an interesting question. It makes me go back and think um I remember more clearly all the times I didn't have emergency [laughter] fun and there was drama and nashing of teeth and crisis and everything else.

Wyatt is in Pennsylvania. Hey, Wyatt, how are you?

>> I'm good. How are y'all doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, I had a question here. I'm not exactly at a I guess financial trouble crossroads. More at a what do I do now crossroads. I have a $65,000

uh in total debt over my head. And I'm trying to figure out if it might be a good idea to sell my truck for around 41,000 and take like 20 25,000 in the

hole to get myself out of debt faster.

>> So you owe 65 on the truck.

I owe 6162 roughly and then I owe about 4,000 on credit cards. >> And what's your household income?

>> Uh my income is 78,000 a year.

>> And are you married?

>> No. >> Okay. Yes. I would sell the truck even if it was paid for.

>> All right. >> Because here's a good rule of thumb.

Things that have motors and wheels go down in value. You cannot build wealth

while you own too many things that have motors and wheels. Too many things is defined as in our world as more than half of your annual income. Your truck is more than half your annual income in value.

And so it's eating your lunch. Every day

it goes down in value and you're trying to pedal uphill and it's killing you.

So, um, are you sure it's only worth 41

or 45? >> I I got bored one night while I was at work and I checked the Kelly Blue Book value, which in my experience is a little bit heavy-handed with its uh estimates, but it estimated at around 41,000 because >> private sale or trade in >> I believe I put down trade in. I don't remember exactly.

>> I go back and do a little research cuz it it What kind of truck is it?

It's a 2025 2500 HD. It did have an

accident like about a year after I bought it. Well, less than a year after I bought it. And it has like some minor paint damage, but other than that, it's mechanically sound. >> Yeah. Well, this is this is a hardcore work truck >> and so there's probably a pretty good market for it, >> right? >> Um, you know, versus if you just had some kind of weird truck or something, it might be harder to sell. So, this you might be able to sell it and get out of it. negative equity into it?

>> No, >> I don't believe so. I I they quoted

$76,000. I put $10,000 down. Okay. As

the uh down payment. >> Yeah. So, you bought a truck at the time. >> You bought a truck at the time that you paid for it what your annual income was about.

>> And so, >> uh Yes. >> Yeah. And so, ever since that day, this truck's been hammering you. And so, that's what brings you to this question.

And so, yeah, I I risk my case, you know. I I think I I I would sell it if I woke up in your shoes. And I like a nice truck. I've got trucks. I love trucks.

>> Yes. You just have to take a small loan from a credit union or something for the difference and enough to >> and get you a 5,000 get you a $5,000 truck and then become a rich guy. Cuz most of the guys that drive trucks like this aren't the rich guys. Most of the guys that drive trucks that are five or 10,000 are the rich guys, especially on a construction site. Yeah.

All right. Bridget is in Chicago. Hi, Bridget. What's up?

>> Hello there. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Uh, what I was calling for was that so I'm I was a teacher. Now I'm an administrator and I'm fully funding my pension and my contribution is 9%.

>> Mandatory. >> And so my question my question >> is that that is a mandatory contribution.

>> It is. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. And so my question is should that 9% be included as a part of

the 15% that should be towards retirement?

>> Excellent question. Okay. There's two problems with your pension. Um one is

you don't have any control over what

it's invested in.

>> Okay. >> Two. So so the outcome of what you end up with at the end is totally up to someone else. Okay.

>> The second problem is because pensions are heavily regulated, what they invest in is more conservative. And so your average rate of return that you're going to see is about 7%.

>> So because of those two things, I would take your 9%. I would count about half of it. >> So if we want to just use round numbers, let's count 5% of it towards your 15.

I'd still put in another 10 in money that you control, but that's giving it some credit. But we're not giving it a 100% credit, so to speak. It'll still be there. I'm not predicting the end of it, but I think you'll do a lot better with the 10% contribution than you do with this 9% contribution.

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Matthew is in Boston. Hi, Matthew. How are you?

>> Hi, David. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Uh, so I'm calling because I'm kind of in a spot where we're not really sure what to do anymore. My wife and I, um, she lost her job almost two years now.

Um, and we're kind of uh we've been just kind of racking in credit cards every month uh to kind of pay for bills and pay for everything going on. >> Why hasn't she gotten a job in two years? >> So, she got laid off uh during her maternity leave. Uh she did get like a long severance for that and um just now

she's about to have a second baby. So she's been in dur uh during this time.

And then she well she has been working kind of like an administrative role with her um with her cousin not getting nearly as much about like you know she went from probably 5k a a month to uh

about $2,000 a month now.

>> And what do you make >> with my I make about 4500 a month.

>> And what do you do? >> Um accounting.

>> Okay. And so if

she got laid off during maternity, she had the baby, and you guys knew you weren't making it, why did you keep doing exactly the same thing for 2 years?

>> Well, I think we I think we have uh just

kind of our principles of, you know, we didn't want to pay for daycare, especially since it's so expensive up here and um you know, having being at

home. I work from home and then she is also at home. So, uh, she's kind of just watching, um, watching our daughter. And then also, >> you're still not answering my question.

>> Second one.

>> That doesn't none of that changes the fact that you were going in the hole every month and you kept doing that for two years. Why? Why didn't you change something?

>> Yeah, I mean, I think uh that's a very good question. I've, you know, I think we were just kind of a little naive. Um,

and now we're at the point where I mean we we we're going to look into it regardless because we were trying to get out of Massachusetts, but we're >> So you have you have you have the second child on the way, right? >> Save us. >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. And you make 4500. And

what is your how much debt do you guys have not counting your home?

>> Uh, so not counting the home, it's about 30k. And that's pretty [clears throat] well. Uh, should I include student loans as well? >> Yeah. Uh, so with student loans, probably about 50k.

>> So about 20 in student loans. What's the third 20 in student loans? So what's the 30?

>> It's a pretty much all credit cards now.

>> Okay. No car debt. >> Credit cards. >> Uh, we do have a um Oh, sorry. Actually, yes, we do have a car as well. Um,

there's about 20,000 on the car left to

pay. >> Mhm. Mhm. And and what is it?

What kind of car? What the car is? >> Yeah. What kind of car? >> Uh just just a Tesla Model Y.

>> Okay. All right. Um that car will bring

more than 20,000, won't it?

>> Possibly. It's um uh it'll probably just

pay off the loan. More likely, I think.

>> Good. Sell it this week.

>> You can't afford a payment.

Uh, it is our only car though. That's the other thing. >> Okay. I don't care. Sell it this week and get you a $5,000 car.

>> You can't afford to drive a Tesla.

You're broke and going in debt every month.

>> These are the kinds of ways you need to start talking to yourself.

I can't afford to do this. We can't

afford to go out to eat, which you've been continuing to do. You're broke. You

can't afford to go on vacation. We can't afford to buy three airline tickets and take the babies to see her mother. We're broke.

>> But you haven't been telling yourself that. So, you got $30,000 in credit card debt paying Tesla payments.

That's what I'm talking about. >> Does that feel accurate, Matthew? Do you get that?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've I've been making cuts where I can. We've definitely made the cuts, but just clearly not. >> How much in the whole per month are you guys that you're having to use credit cards for?

>> Uh, so pretty much um we're probably

putting I, you know, started this dumb thing when we did have uh both of us

working where I said, "Let's rack up points. So, let's put everything on the credit cards and pay everything every on at the end of the month, which we were doing fine with until she lost her job.

And then we're like, well, let's just keep putting it on the credit cards so that we can >> manage continue to everything that we need. So, how much >> if we were to do a really tight budget, which you have not done and now you've got to do starting today, >> how much do you really have to have to stay afloat beyond the $6,500?

4,500 from you, 2,000 from her.

>> So, is that just to survive and pay credit cards or not?

>> Just just to survive and pay credit cards. No eating out, no new shoes, no

new purses, no new hobbies, nothing.

What does it take to feed your freaking family only?

>> Uh, I put everything down. is probably going to be I I just like on my own simple budget I

uh I have about

negative $300 left to left to put everything at the end of >> that and that's not how y'all are living right now, right? Y'all are a little bit more >> Yeah. >> widespread. So $300. So then how much is the >> When I get rid of the Tesla payment, >> how much is that per month? >> Now you're balanced. How much is the Tesla payment a month?

>> Uh, right now it's at it's 700 per month. >> Perfect. Good.

>> Now we got $400 in margin. Yep.

>> You're driving a $5,000 car, not a $20,000 car.

>> Do you have any money anywhere saved?

>> We do. I do have um you know just some

uh some money in like uh Robin Hood and

>> Yay. How much? Simple investments and stuff like that. About like 5K in there.

>> Perfect. Go buy a car with that >> and sell the Tesla. And now you're $400 upside, $400 right side >> and cut up the credit cards.

>> Say it together. >> Do you have one with you right now, Matthew? >> A card.

>> Uh, a credit card. Yeah. >> Yeah. Cut it out right now. >> Cut it. Just cut one. Just do it.

>> I want to hear it. I want to hear it in the phone.

>> Will he do it? He's gonna be like, "Oh, I left it in my other wallet." Do it, Matthew. You got it. This is This is the

start of change, Matthew. This is the start of change. You got to do some extreme stuff.

You guys have to stop. You got to stop the whole thing. >> By the way, we're completely aligned with your wife being at home with the babies. That's great. But we're going to put your butt to work.

>> Yeah. I mean, I've been trying to do uh

to make more money. I've started just like a woodworking side business.

>> Well, I think you make more money doing bookkeeping on the side.

You got one? >> You got a card? >> Yep. >> Let's hear it. >> Yep.

>> That was it. >> You did it. What kind of card was it?

>> Yeah. >> As a just a discover card.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, you just discovered freedom.

Matthew, [laughter] >> Matthew, was so proud of you. Way to do it. Seriously, you got to be start making some actually a action, some action steps. And that's one that's a proclamation of like we're done.

cut the cord on the Tesla. >> It's hard to go into credit card debt when there are no credit cards. You know what I mean? Like when you don't have an option.

>> Yeah. >> Literally, when you physically don't have an option, you have to start getting creative and you're like whittling away at these cards. Cut them all up. Whittling away at them.

They'll start to go away. >> You don't have the $700 ridiculous car payment. You've got to make adjustments to be able to live the life that you are choosing to live with your wife being with the babies. And again, we're aligned to help do that, but we're not going to act like it didn't cost something.

>> She has a $3,000 less income now than she had. And so, >> and let me go back to what you said, Matthew. You said now she's working for my sister-in-law or a family member making less, you know, cuz it sounds like a favor kind of thing. If she can find a side hustle with the hours she's doing and get paid twice as much cuz it's not some weird connection of family and you're like being nice >> all day. >> All day. all day. So, >> the family be nice somewhere else.

>> Yes. Yes. You guys are in a in a mode.

You guys, you have to, man, get on this.

But yeah, it's the 50 grand. Those student loans and credit cards, you start chipping away. And in two years, Matthew, you guys could be out if you got if you guys can get an extra two grand a month by working extra, selling stuff. It's amazing the progress you can make. So, >> so we got you to cut one card. If we really get you to sell the Tesla, you can really do this.

>> [music]

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. Rachel Cruz Ramsay personality is my co-host today and my

daughter. Julie is with us in Boca Ratan. Hi Julie. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh kind of a pickle situation. I'm

wondering if I should sell my house to

pay off uh a total debt of 575,000

and $162 thou um,000.

>> 575 on what?

>> 575162.

>> I know 575 is the debt on what?

So part of that includes a heliloc of

51,000, credit card debt of 74,75,

student loans of 53,000,

um a custody battle that I'm currently going through of 7,76,

uh new roof I had to pay because my insurance claim was denied of 27,700,

and an IRS that for my business of around 18,000.

>> Wow. It's been a tough five years, hasn't it?

>> Oh, yeah. It just felt um just felt horrible. >> Yeah. So, the 162 in addition to the 575

is what?

>> Um well, I mean, all of it is just it's

credit cards. It's um >> No. So, you you broke the two numbers apart. Did Did you not give me two different numbers, right?

>> Uh no, I gave you uh the the total is $575,162.

So So we can round it to 575 >> and not 162,000. 575,162.

I got you. Okay. I misunderstood. Okay.

>> Okay. So and and how much is your first mortgage on the home?

So my four first mortgage I have 338,000

left. >> Is that in the 575?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So you've got about $225,000

in nonmortgage debt. Unless we count the

HELOC, right?

>> Unless you count the HELOC and the roof.

I did a uh PACE program and they included the roof in my um escrow. And so, and what is your income today?

>> Um, I own a business. Uh, I'm a physical therapist and I have a group practice.

And it's a little foggy to understand

the numbers. Um, I have a business coach who's helping me right now, but um,

basically I grossed around uh, 385,000.

Uh, but my take-home, my personal salary was about $65,000.

>> Okay. And that's what you paid taxes on was 65.

>> Uh the taxes actually are uh backdated.

I've I've >> No, no, no. And when you file your income tax, what will be your income showing on your income tax return?

>> Oh, the 65,000.

>> Okay. So, that's really what you're making. >> My personal. >> Okay. >> Yeah, my personal. But I mean I and I'm trying to fix this with my business coach because there's a lot of expenses I'm trying to get rid of like my lease.

>> Yeah. Agree. and payroll's high and then

>> Yep. And then everybody's making money but you in this business. I got you.

>> Basically, >> I think I think that's what your coach is. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Basically, I'm the one working to pay the bills. If I stop seeing clients, then >> How much could you sell the house for, Julie?

>> So, my realtor wants me to We've listed

the house at 575. It's been in the market for a month.

Um, at first I I thought I had an

assumable mortgage, but I found out with the bank that it's only assumable to family members. So, >> the highest offer I've received was for 545,000, which is what the my neighbors sold his house for. >> Yeah.

>> And I don't know if it matters, but my interest rate I bought it in 2021. I had amazing credit. It I have an interest rate of 3.375.

>> Okay. So when you give me the list of things that equal the 575,

what I hear are a lot of that's why I

say it's been a tough 5 years. The numbers all are associated with painful things.

Child support or or child custody, uh

IRS debt, a roof, a roof that went bad,

um >> 74,000 in credit card debts, >> overspending that's out of control. Uh there's a lot of stuff in here that uh

repres that I I think is mostly in your

rearview mirror and is not representative of your future. Am I wrong?

>> No, that's correct. And um one problem I

um sorry just that it's been very hard.

>> Yeah, it has. I can tell. >> Um and one thing I realized was that I, you know, in therapy that I've been trying to save everybody but myself.

>> Yep. You know, I bought a three-bedroom house on my own. Um, you know, my my husband didn't help me. It was just me.

That's a whole another subject. How >> How old are you? >> Um, I'm 41.

>> Okay. >> Are you still married, Julie, or you guys are you're you're divorced and that's what the custody was for the child. Or is this >> We were never We were never married.

This is just a custody battle, which

um >> Okay. >> My lawyers are telling me that because I declare more money, they're thinking that he does some kind of tax evasion.

They're thinking that I may have I may end up having to pay him child support.

>> Now, this isn't your husband that you just mentioned, though, right? This is a different guy. >> No, no, this is my daughter's father. We were never married. He just same guy.

Okay. >> When you bought the house, that's what you were referring. >> That's what you were meaning him when you said. >> That's what I meant. Yeah. I bought the house just myself. My efforts, you know,

>> he he contributed when he lives with me, but it's just all me.

>> Okay. >> I was going to mention that, you know, I I bought the house. cuz I realize now it's, you know, I bought a threebedroom.

I wanted to help my parents. They moved in with me. In my culture, you know, we're Brazilian. You know, you help your parents and you take care of them, but I just can't do it anymore. And I had a conversation with them. I mean, I it's not their fault, but I just they're looking for a place now. They're considering returning to Brazil, and I'm just trying to figure out what to do.

Yeah. >> For myself and my daughter. I >> I think you sell the house for 545,000.

Take the offer.

Okay. >> And um give yourself [clears throat] a fresh start with all of the mistakes then in your rearview mirror. Now, the trick from the mistakes that I always want to do, I've done a lot of stupid stuff in my life. I often say I have a PhD in DUMB.

And so, um I want to make sure I never repeat that mistake that caused that.

Okay? So, I don't want to repeat the mistake that causes me to be $18,000 in the hold of the IRS. So, I got to get my business coach and my business running right. I don't want to repeat the mistake that trying to save everybody. I

don't want to repeat the mistake of this or that or this or that. And just go down the list of these items that you're paying off and you're not even going to be able to pay them all off. You're still going to have $30,000 in debt, right? >> That's it. That's it. Yeah.

>> But you can clear >> people have even said that, you know, they've suggested that I do a chapter 13r one of my bedrooms. You're not bankrupt. You won't the chap you they won't let you in at chapter 13. They'll throw you out because you have this huge asset.

So, no, you need to sell the house. You need to put all this mess in your rearview mirror and start fresh cleaning

up $30,000 worth of debt. Start making more than 65 out of this business so that because you cut your expenses there, never get behind on the IRS again. um never get in a situation where

you're living with somebody you're not married to again. It sets up these kinds of problems and on and on and on and on.

Just make the list down through here. What did I do? I was trying to save everybody. You know, I think you got a good head on your shoulders. I think you can do it. But you need to put the pain in the past.

>> [music]

>> Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw.

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One of our favorite things is when people share their stories about how they're winning. I just got this from awesome review from our Every Dollar budgeting app. Quote, "Every dollar is excellent. It helped me get my personal finances in order." Well, there you go.

Now that I'm married, my wife and I use it together out of our joint checking account. It really helps us maintain a common vision and set of goals. Man, that's perfect. That's exactly what we want to hear. Hey, you can work the Ramsay plan the Ramsay way. what you

hear here on the air. We will coach you right along the way only on Every Dollar. And you can start Every Dollar for free in the App Store or at Google Play today. Doug is in Fort Worth. Hi,

Doug. How are you?

>> I'm doing great and I'm so excited to hear you, Dave. But how are you?

>> Better than I deserve, sir. What's up?

>> Love it. [clears throat] >> Uh I'm calling today. Uh

my wife owns a small business. Well, actually, we both own the small business, but she runs it. And um my

question is she's she stopped paying herself because um she's trying to get

um out of the negative. And every time

we discuss it, it ends up in a in an argument. Um, but we got some supplemental I worked full-time. Um, and

we got some supplemental payment uh through part-time um, stuff at the beginning of the year and she didn't tell me she was going to stop paying herself and I found out in January and

we got in a big fight about it and then um, she'll pay herself a little bit here and there but still not up to her salary she was doing last uh, late last year.

And every time we talk about it, it just ends up in an argument. And I just wanted to get your advice on how I should approach it or if I should just

trust her that, you know, whatever is happening in the business is is going to work out or I'm just stuck at what I should do.

>> What kind of business?

>> It's a spa. >> How long ago did she start it?

>> She's had it about 3 years now. How much money have you all invested in it?

>> Uh she she bought it from her her the

previous owner and it was like a um

owner. She she took they did a loan

between each other. So um she kind of still pays her a salary um until the the

loans paid off.

>> Pays whose salary? The former owner.

>> The former owner that was >> Okay. She has debt to the former owner and that's the only debt she has

>> as far as I know. Yes. >> And do you know how much that debt is?

>> Um it [clears throat] was it was only maybe a couple hundred thousand.

>> Yeah. Okay. So the bit the first mistake

you all have made that has caused a lot of this angst between the two of you is you don't handle your money together.

She's got her world and you've got your world. And so when you start speaking into her world, you don't have a foothold to do that because you're just

a roommate.

>> Mhm.

And the roommate doesn't like it when you tell her what to do. Instead, you guys need to have indepth combined

finances, full transparency, so you know

exactly what she's making cuz you're having to put it in the monthly budget together every month at your house. And you would never enter into a business transaction that's a couple hundred,000

without your spouse knowing every stinking detail and being in agreement aligned to it. And you don't even know what's going on down there. Oh, I think it's a couple of hundred thousand. Well, that's a fairly good rounding error.

>> Yeah. >> You know, so that tells me how disengaged you are until you decide you want to get engaged when she doesn't pay herself. >> But you don't know what's going on down there. So, that's why she's that's why she's insulted. >> How much are how much you guys bringing in household income? If she doesn't pay herself and you guys are living off yours, your salary, what are you making?

>> Uh, I make about 55. Um, we started at

the beginning of the year. We're helping a church um, do music and um, they've

been paying us uh, 500 a week. So, I

think she's looking at that as supplemental um, to where she does she doesn't really need to pay herself cuz it's not like we're struggling. We were in baby step three. We were building our emergency fund cuz we got out of debt. Um, but now

that's stopped. Um, >> so you went $200,000 in debt. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, but we were I mean we did our personal finances together, but yeah, like you're right. I have involved in her. >> No, you don't. No, no, no, no, no, you don't. That's not true, Doug. Because she quit paying herself a salary which would have gone into your personal finances and you discovered it later.

You are not doing your personal finances together.

>> No, she paid herself all last year. She stopped in January and that's when I found out that cuz she didn't pay herself and I asked her why she hadn't paid herself and that's when she just told me that she was

um she >> losing money >> shut down on me >> losing money. Yeah. Yeah. So her

business is failing

and anytime you question her about it, it shames her.

>> Puts salt in the wound. and it puts salt in the wound and and so honey the

business is not doing well. I want to help >> but but just know where's your paycheck.

That's not a help. And so um yeah, you

need you guys need to get together and look at the business together in a supportive way. How can I help? What's

going on? How can what's happening here?

and um and make some and we're on the same team and we're making decisions together here. Not you haven't put your part in >> and that's still the language you're using tells us all of this. Um so um

I don't know. I mean um you speak into Winston's business, right?

>> Sure.

I mean, yeah, some of it I'm like I mean, there there's a there's a level at which we see money come in and out and we're talking about him. We were just talking about a deal. Actually, he's going to go do a showing today. And I'm like, "Oh, great. This, this, and this." Now, I'm probably not the most detailed person in the world, just like he'll probably, you know, I mean, to it's all to a degree, but high level when we look at our numbers every single month. Yeah.

I mean, we know what's going on. >> Yeah. But if if something was going on that he was losing money on, he would know it. >> Oh, yeah.

Well, he would he tells me like if there's a deal that Yeah. that they Yeah. They bought something and it was like, "Oh, we're selling it for less than what?" And that it's a loss and that sucks. It's like, "Okay." Yeah.

But it's being talked about. >> Yeah. >> 100%. >> And that's, you know, that that's the process.

Yes. And so >> Yeah. And I think it's an attitude at which I don't which Doug I understand why you would be frustrated.

but also the way you approach it and the

way you guys have this conversation.

It's either that the business is between you all and you're, you know, and it almost splits you apart emotionally or together you lock arms and say, "Hey, we're taking on this world and this business and everything together and the problems out there." That's the problem.

It's not us, it's out there. And so pointing it at the right direction and at the right thing I think is what's important because it's it's almost like a third party where it actually starts to become her identity instead.

>> Now she's not he's not been involved until he questions her about it. Right.

Right. >> So she's insulted. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. >> And so that's she'll be defensive which makes sense why she would be defensive because she's not in the numbers. You're not in the numbers throughout the month and you [clears throat] guys aren't talking about it.

>> Yeah. >> Um but >> let's sit down and look at how this business is operating. What are the parts of it? What are the details?

And what can we do together to get this going? Hey, I'll come down there and help. I mean, what do you need? I'll cut the janitorial out.

I'll come clean the toilets. But, uh, what have we got to do?

And, um, otherwise, that couple of

hundred thousand that you owe somebody is going to come down around your head at some point. And so, we need to get this thing back profitable again where it's making money and uh, instead of

losing money. And right now, it's losing money. So, and and and yeah, I'm I'm

suggesting you become supportive and ask how I can help. And I made a mistake by not being more involved and being more helpful. I am sorry for that. And uh how

I'm going to start today though, being very involved and very helpful. And so, where's how should I do that? And what's the place to start? Because we need to get this thing moving cuz it's scaring me and I know it's probably scaring you.

>> Yeah. And there's probably a story you've made up in your head, Doug. a story she's made up in her head of what he thinks about her and her business acument. You know what I mean? That may not all be true. >> Exactly. >> So, it's saying those things out loud, I think, is really, really important. And you guys start get on that trajectory where Yeah. where you're seen as helpful and not [music] being an accuser of what she is or isn't doing. >> Yep.

Oh, [music]

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It's free. Brad is in de mo Iowa. Hi

Brad. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey Dave, quick question. How much state should a 32year-old guy put in his

pension fund being still around and still um viable when he retires at 65?

>> Um I I would actually study the uh

history and the articles that are written about the particular pension fund, but overall as a category I think pension funds are safe.

>> They're safe. Does that take any responsibility away from me doing additional >> No. >> Is that retirement savings? >> No. There it does not. Pension funds will underperform standard investments because because of the regulation, they typically are going to yield about a 7% rate of return. And so if you put the same amount into a good growth stock mutual fund or funds in a Roth IRA, you

would make uh well more than twice as

much. meaning you'd make 11 or 12% 10 or

11 12% somewhere in there a as an average rate of return but that's a lot more than double the result of dollars then and so very very important that you

do your own investing uh and not rely exclusively on a pension fund regardless of if the pension fund is going to be there or not. I thought you were saying is it going to collapse and I'm going to lose everything and have nothing. I doubt that's going to happen, but you definitely want to have money that you have control of where it's invested and

you want and that you get to decide the disposition of it as you reach the retirement years. So, >> what percentage of your income is going into the pension?

>> Well, it's all it's all um uh employer

paid. >> Oh, then you need to be putting 15% away >> and they pay in to an annuity fund as well that's that's growing also. Yeah,

retirement. Both are lame.

>> Both are lame. Including the annuity.

Yes. Even the annuity last year had a 20% return. >> Well, the market had a 25% return.

>> Mhm. Okay. So, both are lame. Continue

to build my own retirement account.

>> Absolutely. You need to be doing baby step four when you get there. When you're out of debt and have your emergency fund in place, following the baby steps, you need to be putting 15% of your income aside for retirement. And then all of the employer funded things

are just going to be gravy on a really nice large biscuit that you build.

>> Gotcha. >> And I think both are going to be there.

They're just they're just underperforming products compared to good mutual funds in a Roth.

>> Yeah. But for some people like we had a caller 9% >> mandatory >> was going in mandatory and so you cut it in half. So four and a half 5% went to the 15 >> Exactly. >> percent rule. >> Exactly. But in his case, he's not putting anything, >> so he don't need to. It's a full 15%.

Yep. >> A quote unquote benefit, >> which is very weird because um

>> in the old days, when I first started this show 30 something years ago, almost 40 years ago, the um pensions were

everywhere. 70% of the companies had a pension. >> Now, uh I think it's like 4% of the companies have a pension. >> It's very unusual to find an actual pension anymore, unless it's government.

>> I was going to say more so government. Yeah. >> Yeah. see teacher pensions and union pensions and that kind of stuff, >> but actual corporate America has just about done away with them. >> Uh because they're difficult to manage.

They're highly regulated. They they it's very hard to make them work in terms of managing them for the benefit of your employees. U but many do and they they

seldom completely collapse. I mean, you've got some pensions, some of the state pensions are in trouble uh that are being run very poorly. Illinois, there your pension sucks because your government sucks. They're horrible at managing money. And as an example, I'd be scared to death if I was dependent on that one. Yeah. >> But now there's other But if you and all you got to do is just Google, you'll see what I'm talking about. I mean, there's a lot of states that are for so poorly run, the actual state is creating a a

horrible pension product. But um or or

municipalities, the same thing. your local city government for your police pension or whatever. Uh you you got to look at that kind of stuff and make sure it's solid. But even if it is or isn't solid, I'm still going to go build my own biscuit and then whatever this stuff is is just the gravy on it.

And that's going to put you in a good position where you're never never really worried about that.

That that's the guy we're not going to be. Benjamin is in Los Angeles. Hi Benjamin. How are you?

>> Doing pretty good. How about you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, I had a question because I am on baby step two and one of my debts is in

collection and I called the collection agency today and offered them a settlement offer to pay it and uh to pay it and be done with it.

>> And they declined my settlement offer.

>> Okay.

Tell them to tell them to call me when Tell them to call you back when they feel better.

>> That's what I did. I told them when they're ready to accept my settlement offer to call me back. >> Yeah. Yeah. And next time they call you, just say, "Hey, there's a settlement offer on the table." We don't even have to have a conversation. If you take that, I'll send you money. How much do you owe them? And what did you offer them? And who is it?

>> I owe them 300. Um, the company is

>> $300.

>> Yes. And I offer colleging over 300

bucks.

>> In total, I have about $2,300 in debt.

And I was just trying to settle the collections and get done with it and offered them 100 bucks and didn't want to take it. So, I was just curious if I should just >> That would not be unusual on $300. I thought we were talking about you were had $5,000 you owed and you hadn't paid them in two years and you offered them $1,500. But on 300 bucks, they're not going to screw with it.

No wonder they laughed at you. Hopefully, you'll be out of debt in a month or two, right? >> I I would just pay them is what I would do. It's 300 bucks.

and then send them the amount. No, I would not settle a $300 debt. >> Yeah. And for a lot of people out there that are settling um yeah, we do find

obviously talking, you know, giving a little ball offer and depending on how long you've been in in the collections process is probably how easily that can

happen. But we also uh have friends at Guardian Litigation. So if you go to guardianlit.com, >> but don't do that with 300 bucks. >> No, no, no, no.

But for everyone else out there, if you are in Baby 2 and you have gotten to this point where collections, it's uh you know, you have >> you got you got 10 or 20,000 bucks in collections. >> Or [clears throat] 50,000 or something, they can help you. Guardian lit can work that through. And they're they're lawyers is what they are.

And so yeah, that you're right. Right. >> But that's a that's a question we get a lot. Not always for 300 bucks.

It's usually it's usually more, but the collections process is real. And so, um, so yeah, and it can work to your benefit, right?

Matter of fact, if you're going to pay in full, get it in writing because they'll double the amount and say they added late charges and try to get more out of you later. So, even with you, Benjamin, on 300 bucks, send have them send you an email exactly what is the balance. wait a week since you just got off the phone with them, but have them send you an email the exact amount and then cut them a check for that that day.

And um but don't give them electronic access to your checking account. They'll take more out than they're supposed to because they lie. Uh it's a filthy business. And so that's why guardian litigation is a good idea to have the lawyers on your side.

>> Yeah, for sure. >> But uh but but don't do that with 300 bucks either. So yeah, it's it's just it's >> I'm glad I'm glad your debt amount though is so low, Benjamin. Honestly, I mean, that's Yeah.

[clears throat] You'll be out of debt quick and then start building up that emergency fund, maybe step three of 3 to 6 months of expenses. >> Precisely. That's how it works.

So, um, typically what happens with

credit card debt is as it gets older,

the credit card company the the older the debt is, meaning the longer it's been since it's been paid, it ages out, the credit card company will quote unquote write it off. Now, that does not mean that you no longer owe the debt. It means they no longer think they can collect it. And so, they take it off of their books and take a tax write off for bad debt on you. Then they sell that bad

debt to a debt buyer at pennies on the dollar. And that debt buyer will try to collect from you. And uh they will work with you because they only paid 2.5 to 5 cents on the dollar for the for the debt, but not on $300.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Heat. Heat.

[music]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's rammissysolutions.com.

[music]

>> [music] >> Romans 5:4-5, "Patience produces

character, and character hope, and hope

[music] does not disappoint." Thomas Sell said, "Some people who are very dissatisfied with their lives nevertheless have no intention of changing their own behavior. They want to keep on doing what they've always done, but just have it turn out differently." [laughter] Oh, it's like the definition of insanity. >> Exactly. >> The same thing over and over again >> and expecting a different result. There you go. All right. Jasmine is next.

Jasmine's in St. Louis. Hi, Jasmine. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you all?

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Um, I have a question about um paying

off an auto loan that I took out in my

name for my mom. um the balance of the

loan is a little over 6,000 and I want

to um just understand if it would be

wise to take out a loan against my 401k

or take out the money from my 401k to

pay off the high interest loan.

>> Neither would be wise and and I will walk you through why. Do you not have $6,000 otherwise?

>> I have $6,000. It's in a separate Roth

IRA and also um my son's college fund

and savings, but I don't touch >> Oh, savings. What's in savings?

>> So, I have a little over 5,000 in savings. >> Mhm. And what is your income?

>> I make 105,000 um dollars annually before a bonus.

>> Okay. All right. I would scrape together from some nonretirement something and

pull the 6,000 together and pay it off.

It's a high interest loan. Um I wouldn't have bought the car in the first place if I didn't pay cash for it as a gift to someone, even your mom. Um now here's

why we're not going to cash out your 401k >> or kids college. >> Or your kids college. Yeah. Or any or your Roth or anything. So, if you take money out of a retirement account, they charge you a 10% penalty plus your tax

rate, which in your case is 30%.

So, you're going to get a 30% hit plus a 10% hit to for a total of a 40% hit.

That's going to make your high interest rate look like a deal, >> right? >> So, we don't want to do that. We don't want to borrow money at 40% interest in order to do that. Now, if you borrow on the 401k, you are unplugging a good

mutual fund investing, assuming you've got it invested in good mutual funds.

Um, and and you will pay yourself back

at the rate of 6%. When you leave the

job, and you will leave when you die, get fired, or get a better job, one of the three. uh when you leave the job, that loan is considered due in full and you're facing the same thing with the penalties and interest if you don't repay it at precisely the wrong time for

you to want to come up with money is just when you're doing a job change. So, um no, we don't want to borrow against a 401k anytime, and we certainly don't want to cash out a retirement account or something that has a penalty on it, uh in order to pay off the thing. So, I'm going to take some of the $5,000 and scrape together some money out of my budget and uh I'm going to try to get it paid off that way. >> Yeah.

And making what you're making, too. >> Yeah. You're making enough money to knock this out. >> Yeah.

It'll be amazing.

Yeah. The the car thing, it's real. The

uh the issue with the car debt people, I mean, I feel like this whole show so far. >> Yeah. >> Today, >> I think it has [clears throat] been. Yeah. I think we talked car debt all day long. All right. Open phones at88255225.

Jennifer is in Pittsburgh. Hi Jennifer.

What's up?

>> Hi Dave. Oh my goodness. I'm sorry. I love you. >> How can we help? >> I can't believe.

>> Hey. Uh so um a little bit of a

situation here like uh two years ago

um I was married now separated. Um our

house got hit by a car. Um, we have

probably around 170,000 settlement and

my husband moved out when his mom got sick to take care of her and now he doesn't want to talk about where the money went. Um, >> he doesn't want to talk about what it >> he doesn't want to talk about how the

where's the money >> from the settlement the accident.

>> Yep. >> Yep. Yep. because basically it's >> Are you you said you're you're separated so you're getting a divorce?

>> I'm thinking of it if he's not going to come clean because right now >> No, I'm sorry. Are you Are you separated? Your marriage is not good.

Separated or what's going on?

>> Well, he moved out and he moved out to his mother's house.

>> Why? So right now to at first to take care of her to take care of her because he had she had cancer but after

that the the conversation of buying the house another house is no longer in you know

and the story like he wants us to just get like rent and basically doesn't want

to does he want to help me pay like he's now saying he's in debt.

Um, but honestly, we've been married for so long, but his mom is one of the reasons we fight a lot. And now I feel like I'm like, "This is too much." It's like, you're not telling me anything about the money, and now you want us to rent. And >> well, there's not an us. He lives over there. You live over here.

>> Pretty much. >> Yeah. >> So, now I feel like I really need to talk to to, you know, a lawyer and like

>> Yeah.

[sighs] Yeah, that's what that's your next step. I mean, you need to get some legal advice and then you need to get some marriage counseling advice and decide, you know, if we're going to keep this marriage together, what are going to be the guidelines for the relationship going forward? Because the ones that you have right now don't work.

>> Yeah. And you know, there could be a good chance that that money is gone. The

170 that happened two years ago from the settlement, that's what she's saying she's trying to get.

>> And he and she doesn't know where it is.

So there's Yeah. >> You waited precisely two years too long to deal with it. >> That's right. That's right. >> If you if you're wondering about where it's going to go, you should deal with it the instant it comes up.

>> Yeah, that's right. >> Uh you can't wait two years later and go, "Oh, I wonder what he did.

>> I wonder what happened there. >> I wonder what happened there." That's not going to play out very well.

>> Um All right. I know how much you love social media. >> All right. I love social media.

>> We got a uh we got a question from Instagram for you. Uh I'm 26 years old.

I just sold my house and will be netting $72,000 from the sale. I have no other

debt than the mortgage of my new primary residence. What's the smartest way to use or invest that money?

So, netting 72, but but the other home, I guess, is already bought. Um, so yeah, I mean, if I were you, I'd probably just roll it right into the >> mortgage >> to the mortgage, unless you have consumer debts. >> Make sure your consumer debt is cleared. Work your baby steps. Make sure your consumer debts cleared. You have an emergency fund in place. you're putting 15% of your income away in retirement.

Uh putting money aside for kids college and you're put and then you start paying down your mortgage. And so if you suddenly get a $75,000 bonus, you apply it to whichever one of those baby steps you're in. >> You are. >> And so if you're all the way up to baby step six, you would put it on the mortgage.

>> And Elise from Facebook asks, "It feels weird to be in STOR mode and not paying off debt. We're expecting a baby and the hospital bill should only be around $2 to $3,000. Can we just set that money aside and keep working to pay off our debt? >> I wouldn't.

I would pile up cash. It's just for a short period of time. >> Yeah. >> Um and that, you know, having 10, 20, $30,000 laying around when a baby comes is comforting.

happen that was outside the range of your insurance policies. >> Yeah. That that that is one event that >> who I don't know. There's just a level of peace of like who knows >> and it's just for a short period of time.

>> That's right. I mean, so really, let's say you stack up $20,000 instead of paying down the debt for $20,000. And the day that you and the baby come home from the hospital healthy and there's nothing wrong and everything's okay, you're sitting there with an extra $20,000. You pay it on you pay it on the debt.

You lost the interest on rate on $20,000

of debt for that threemonth period of time, which is nothing. Won't buy you a biscuit. >> Yeah. So when you look over the debt, I would just make sure you you know you pile up cash ready for a baby to come.

Now if you are out of debt

>> and you have a fully funded emergency fund and you're at baby steps four, five, and six, we don't do stork mode.

>> Yeah. >> What we call stork mode is while you're in debt, you temporarily stop paying

down your your debt snowball with a baby on the way to become to be sure about a baby. have some cushion there so it's not just your $1,000 >> emergency and not to spend it. We're not spending on the nursery.

>> Okay, we're we're building up this cash as extra pad that is going to go on the debt the instant that we know everybody's okay. Who would do that?

>> I don't know anybody. That would put this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 90. If You’re Waiting for “The Right Time”, You’ll Stay Broke | March 6, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.88255225

88825-55225 is the phone number to jump in.88255225

alongside the good PhD

Dr. John Deloney. That was fun to say instead of the good doctor. I just mixed it up a little bit. >> It's more honest. Well, it's right at it. It's a PhD. You got two of them, folks. And he's going to he's going to leverage them both, right? Like when someone says like, "Hey, that guy's a doctor." They assume, "Oh, he could heal me." >> Yeah. So, we've got uh an interesting combo. We have a lot of fun, so beware.

We'll help you, but we're going to have fun in the meantime. Sarah's up. She's going to get us started in Phoenix, Arizona. Sarah, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, well, I have a big question. I

want to know, how do I protect my financial future and re regain trust now

that I know my partner has been very dishonest about his debt?

>> Tell us more. And here's what we want to hear. um how dishonest and how long ago did

you find out? Give us that detail.

>> Sure. Sure. Um so I found out it's been

three sets of dishonesty, but the major one was this uh recently in December. I found out he actually has $65,000 in credit card debt.

>> Okay. And finding this out, how did you find out? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So I thought he only had $10,000

and so I >> Hold on. Did you make that number up or is that what he told you?

>> That is what he told me. I am a very u a

very straight shooter. I'm older so like I like dating I hit the high points very early on and he told me he had $10,000 in credit card debt. So I was like, "Okay, that's workable." >> So he he lied to your face >> come to find out. Yeah. >> Okay. All right.

>> Yeah. Uh so I planned a you know thought

we were going to spend a future together and get married. So, my Christmas gift was, I'm going to pay off your $10,000 uh credit cards. Um, and so I went into

his open desktop and found a spreadsheet that actually did not have 10,000. It was 65,000.

>> Okay. And and how long ago was this?

>> This was December because that was going to be my Christmas gift. >> Are you all still together?

>> We are still together. >> All right. When you confronted him, what was that like?

>> Yeah, it was very awkward. Uh he just said he was very embarrassed that he's not where he wanted to be in his life and he knows like I'm the person for him and like he didn't want me to run after he found after I found out that truth >> and there's some truth to that cuz you would have Yeah. Here we are 3 months later and you're calling us.

>> Yes. But this was already a year into our relationship. I found this. >> No. Like you said when you when he told you the number 10,000 you thought, "Okay, this is manageable. Like I I can settle for him in this way." And so his impulse >> absolutely >> like what he did was wrong. No question.

But his impulse is right.

>> She will judge me based on this debt number and will not give our relationship a shot.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So he was and is there and here I

am coming after you. Is there Tell me

about the integrity of going through his laptop and going through his financial numbers. Is that something >> completely accident? No, it was um my internet went down at my home. I work remote a couple days a week and um I'm in a like a executive level so I was like I need internet.

I need a quiet office. So he's like just go to mine and so when I logged in cuz I I mean he gave me his password. I logged in to log into the internet for my meetings and the spreadsheet was there. >> Okay.

>> Yes. No, I'm not I was not going. Okay.

All right. >> But I couldn't not look. I'm not going to lie. Once it was there. >> Yeah. But let's let's just boil this down. What's what what do you want John and I to weigh in on? >> Yeah. Um, I guess a couple of things is

one, I get the lie, but I'm very

financially in a separate category.

Like, I paid off $150,000 in student loans. The financial >> piece. You're very very judgmental.

>> Oh, thanks. That's not good. And you're you're you're you have put yourself on a

pedestal and you are looking contempt is one of the four horsemen of the relationship apocalypse according to the goman. And contempt is a power hierarchy. I am better than you. >> I don't mean it like that. I'm I'm >> Yeah. I give Okay, you may be right, but I'd like to give her a little more latitude. >> Okay. >> Objection denied. Keep going. Keep

going. You were going somewhere, but John may be right. But I want to play this out. Keep going.

>> I was just trying to give a background cuz again, I've met my per I thought I met my person. And so I'm willing to give up whatever it is to help him, but

not when he's not being honest. But it's also being a 35-year-old single woman that got her doctorate. I work 80our weeks. I work four jobs. To have someone that's not willing to side hustle the same way and get there. Now that's why

John I wanted background.

>> Well, so now John's absolutely right. He got ahead of me, which is not surprising. He has two PhDs. I don't have a degree at all for anybody that's keeping score at home, and I'm proud of it and never going to go get it.

So, I don't care what you think. However, John did catch it, but I I think it's for a different reason. I I I don't think you're judgmental, but I think he's on to something. I'm going to say you're not judgmental, but I think you resent him because you're bringing up how much work you've done.

You've busted your tail. you did everything the right way and he's not willing to at least go get a side hustle.

gumption. Is that right or wrong?

>> Uh partially. Especially when I gift you financial peace and you're not interested. So to me that's just then what are we doing here? There's the question. >> Pay off your credit card debt.

>> I don't know why you're with the guy. Can I be honest with you? I don't know why you're with this guy. And I'm going to this is going to sound awful. I don't know why he's with you cuz cuz here's the thing. Y'all y'all have different beliefs. And me and my wife have been married 23 and a half years. We have different beliefs on a thousand different things.

>> But we share values. >> Yeah. That's great. >> And y'all don't share values.

And somebody can be a great hang. They can be super loyal. They can be somebody you fall in love with. But if you don't share values, you're going to end up starting your marriage in two separate boats, rowing as fast as you can, and you're all going to end up in separate harbors.

I don't think this is the guy, and I don't know if that's why you called. I think I tried to ask you, uh, I don't think that, uh, this is a good fit unless he Now listen, I would say this. I if you haven't told him all of this, now's the time to do the oldfashioned DTR, define the relationship, but tell him where your frustrations are and say, "Those frustrations are leading me to fears that you're not for me." I'd give the guy a shot.

I have judged you and your work ethic,

and I've compared it to mine. I've judged how much debt you have. I've judged your lack of caring about it. and I have made my values your problem.

>> Well, I again I I'm not so much worried

about that. I've started counseling with him because again, I'm invested in him and the relationship. My concern is if we get through the $65,000 debt. Is there a way to regain that that trust about finances? Because I'm more money

goes in a pot. >> Let John tell you how. >> Here's how you regain trust. It's it's very hard, but it's very simple. You give him a map that is 14 days long on

what he needs to do to help regain trust. That might be I want to see your credit report. That might be I want all your social media accounts. Any number of things.

You get to make up the path and he gets to decide whether he wants to walk that journey or not. And after 14 days, you'll reconvene and you commit. If you walk this path, I'm not going to keep keep your lack of that, you know, your dishonesty in my back pocket as an ace that I can play at any time.

you as we move forward slowly and slowly. So, step by step. So, 14 days, then another 14 days, then another 30 days, another 60 days. We're going to give him a road map and give him a chance to follow it.

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All right. Columbia, South Carolina is where we're going next. Lee is there.

Lee, how can we help?

>> Uh, yes, sir. I'm just kind of dealing with a situation with my mom here. Um, we've been living with her for the past few years. She's going through a divorce. Uh, she's got over $300,000

worth of debt, and I've been trying to lay it out for her, but she's kind of being prideful about the situation. She She It's her ownership. So, I'm just trying to see what I should do. Should I cut my losses and move on? Is there anything else I could do to help her? could like try to gift her financial peace university something like that.

>> Before we get into that part, why are you still living with your mom?

>> So, it happened a few years ago. Uh the

situation with me and my wife that we were living in a different household. Uh

it kind of the deal kind of went sour on that end and she offered to let us stay at her home. My mom is an overroad truck driver and so was her soon to be ex-husband. And um

home like 100 days out of the year. So, they just said, "Come on and stay with us. Save up and you get your own stuff." >> What's the plan to get out?

>> So, we had planned to get out originally within a year of being there, but then not even 6 months into us living there,

um my mother came to me asking for $12,000 to help them uh deal with their

monthly finances.

>> Okay. All right. I I know the question is about mom and how do I help her with her debt? So, John, that's a that's a really interesting family situation. And I was I was wanting to see if there was any other dynamics with him and uh

living there and all of this business.

So, this is this is kind of sticky. What do you think? Yeah, it's one of the hardest things in the world, brother, is when someone we love is doing something

that is is destructive and

>> they have no interest in our education

and our wisdom or our advice. They just

want us to participate in their

continued lifestyle.

And so what I want to challenge you on is don't look at her and say she's being

prideful and at the same time become prideful as though you're the you're the keyholder to her future change.

>> Right? >> Be humble and say she doesn't want my

help.

>> And so all I can control here is me. And so I will no longer give money. I will

be willing to talk if if you're interested in systemic change, not just

continue to give you 12 grand every few months. And I it's probably going to cost me my free housing.

And so me and my wife are going to have to figure out what we are going to do next.

>> For sure. For sure. >> Behavior is a language. >> Did give her >> do what? Yeah, we never did give her that 12,000 because that was when we started asking the questions and found out how crazy the finances were.

>> Okay. >> And so we kind of started stepping through trying to say, "Hey, you need to change some things." And that's when her soon to be ex-husband got upset and uh decided he did not want to be around anymore. >> Yeah. Most most parents do not want to hear their children's input about their money or their sex life.

>> Right. >> Right. And on the rare occasion that your mom comes to you and says, "Hey, I'm over my head. I need help. I'll do whatever you say you because you and your wife look like you have it together, then that's an invitation.

I'll walk through that door a 100 times out of 100." >> Right? >> But behavior is a language. She has told you repeatedly through her actions, I don't care what you have to say. This is my life and I'm going to live it. By the way, can I have $12,000?

>> Yeah, for sure. For sure. I think she wanted out of it originally and now it's just a it's a mixed bag of emotions. Um my mother was kind of a uh a victim of abuse as a as a child and I don't think she's ever really coped with that fully >> and and you you diagnosing her or

internet diagnosing her, you putting things on her like none of that helps.

>> All right. All right. I get you. The greatest gift you could give her is you and your wife live such peaceful, financially responsible, um, safe lives. And not safe in the you

don't take risks and venture, but safe like y'all are a home base for each other. That is going to be a a your mom

may say, "I want what y'all have,

>> and probably she won't." >> And I'm going to ask a question of John Lee on your behalf. Okay.

Uh John, I I'm I'm wondering if he

doesn't need to shift from help mode, worry mode, and it's understandable.

He's a good man. Of course, he's a good >> I'd be worried about my mom in the >> I wonder if he doesn't now need to move to grieving mode and just accept the reality. >> Yeah. There there is a all of the internet diagnostics, all of the she's got this and she's struggling with this and she needs to do this. All of that is may have some some drops of

truth in it, but that's a way from for you to distract yourself from grief.

>> Yeah, >> this stinks. >> My mom is in a bad situation. She's been in a bad situation for a long long time and she's been an adult for a long long time and she's continued in some of these patterns and now she's got a big huge mess and she refuses my help.

That's heartbreaking and I'm going to spend some time being sad. >> Yeah. >> Gotcha. And Lee on the back side of that is what can I do? I can pray for her if

I think that's a thing. I can love her.

That's a thing. And I can advise her as John said, if she comes and asks for

advice other than that, my friend, there's nothing you can do. And and uh that's why I asked John that question because it's going to get you to the mental and emotional place that you need to be to where this doesn't drive you bananas. Is that is that fair?

>> 100%. I I think grief grie grief is simply the gap between what you wanted and what actually is reality truth

>> and man spend some time in that gap and it's and it's heartbreaking. We don't have good cultural models for >> just being sad, just being heartbroken, being uh being in deep grief for a while and then we're going to go do the next right thing for us and our family tree.

Let's go to Scott now in Fort Worth, Texas. Scott, how can we help?

>> Thanks for taking my call. Um >> I guess pretty quick question. I I have a rental property. It's my last piece of debt. Um planning on selling in about a year and a half. And I'm trying to decide if it's wiser to pay it off. Um or maybe if I have that money to pay it off, take it in, invest it, um and just kind of pay the mortgage until I'm ready to sell it, which is probably about next summer, basically the summer of 2027.

>> Why don't you just sell it now?

>> I have tenants in it and I thought maybe I'd honor the lease I have for them and they have about a year and six months.

>> Can you just still sell it? I mean, man, if somebody's trying to buy a rental property, how cool would it be for them to buy a place with at least of a year already signed up?

>> That's good. That's what I thought. I mentioned it to the real estate agent. They told me that usually investors usually looking for a really good deal and tend to sell the property for less in value, but I don't know if that's accurate. That's just kind of what >> Give us some real numbers really fast.

What What do you What would you stand to make on it?

>> Um, I probably I probably have a 100,000 in equity in it. It's 125 payoff and I

have a CD coming uh mature within the next month that would cover that.

>> And it's your only debt.

>> It's my only debt. >> Why do you want to sell it? You are you tired of being a landlord?

>> Um we just had a lot of life changes and I just you know focus has changed and just not I don't know just maybe waiting for an older home for something to happen and having to dump more money into it. I figured now maybe within the next year or two it probably a good time for us to sell. Uh, now based on what little bit I know, I would lean that direction. But I'm a guy that I I I kind of go big and momentum.

Uh, but I think there's a case that I think John is leaning into here to go, do I hold on to it? Given your financial position, what would you do with the windfall that you would make? What are what are you thinking?

um with the 100,000 I thought I'd combine. I mean I have two JH kids that are fixing um possibly to go to school and looking to kind of invest in them a little bit with a portion of it. Um they realize that we're not paying completely for school and so it's something that be partially used for them and maybe partially used uh a few things to do for our primary home and then whatever's left just making sure um maybe a little traditional IRA or something like that.

>> When would you pay the house off if you were not to sell it? What's your payoff date?

>> Uh, if I wasn't to sell it, my payoff date um would be >> probably by the end of this month >> to pay it off. I don't think you're understanding what I'm asking. I'm talking about >> Yeah, he's about to have a CD mature. >> Well, the CD That's right. You know what? That's right. So, you would pay it off. >> What do you think, John? This is interesting, >> Scott. I >> So, basically, I have an emergency fund that covers about expenses.

>> Here's what I would do. I would I would get a second opinion. I would go to ramsysolutions.com and check out the real estate pros in your area. And this isn't a sales pitch. This is exactly what I would do if I'm in your situation. I would call um a real estate

pro and say, "Hey, here's my situation.

>> I I I'm of the opinion that when your spirit leaves something, your body needs to leave it, too. You already want to sell this house. I would sell your house in the next 30 or 60 days and um either

have a hard conversation with your tenants or sell it to somebody who will honor their year lease.

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Brandon is up next in San Antonio, Texas. Brandon, how can we help you?

>> Hi, how are you gentlemen doing today?

>> Good. How are you, sir?

>> I'm very blessed. Um, thank you for taking my call. I just had a brief question for you guys. I recently transferred over here to San Antonio.

I'm a US Army nurse and throughout my

career, I've had multiple conversations about finances with other soldiers. And

some good, some have been bad. But when people ask me about what I follow and what I do, I always point them to Ramsey Solutions. And there's this consistent

um negative mindset among a lot of soldiers that I've met regarding Ramsey Solutions. And the primary reason has always been how Ramsay Solutions views

debt as evil. And so, you know, the military promotes a lot of things that put you into debt. The government uh travel charge card. They try to get you on the AX Platinum card. They tell you about all the different loans and mortgages you can get being a service member. And I guess my question is, how

as the average Joe can I talk to my

fellow soldiers about why putting yourself in debt is wrong, regardless of

how sweet the deal looks.

>> Man, your heart is awesome, brother.

>> Very good, my friend.

>> Um Ken, what do you think, Ken? Well, the reason I'm p it's there's an old phrase is when the student is ready, the teacher appears. >> Yeah. >> And I don't want to simplify it to that,

but that was my first response. It's and John said this in a call earlier today talking to this guy about his mom. How do I advise my mom? And I thought what John said is great and I'll borrow it.

You know, it's I think the best thing you can do for your fellow soldiers is actually live with financial peace and in a way that is humble. you know, you're not walking around talking about how much you have in your emergency fund and stuff like that. Uh but but just live it. Uh I I there's a there's an old

phrase in the church world which makes me roll my eyes, but it it's applicable here, John, and I think it's lifestyle evangelism. In other words, >> you know, just live in such a way that people go, "Hey, you know what? You you when we talk about all this, like you never say anything." >> Yeah. >> And you kind of have some peace on your face.

What's your deal? And then you go, "Oh, well, so I just don't believe in debt. >> I don't borrow money." >> And here's why. I I think that's probably best in the barracks.

Sorry for the alliteration.

really do. I think that's there. Uh because institutionally, you're right.

You described what's happening. They're up against that. Um if if someone does say I want to know more and they're having a hard time with the debt is bad thing um I think you have to uh reframe it and

there's a simple little construct that I like to use and that is define the problem reveal the solution give the

reason for the solution and so the problem is not debt when you talk to somebody who thinks debt is normal the problem is the emotion and the stress and the lack of margin and all the other things, right? So, you can personalize the problem by asking them how how stressed out are you about? What does your debt do to you? Like ask questions.

I like to be an asker, not a teller. Uh that's what hit me first. All in the framework of uh live it and then be able

to explain it. Well, John, what what are your thoughts, >> Brandon? So, in 2008 or nine, I was I I

hung out with a bunch of super nerds.

Okay. And there was this new thing that came out called the ketogenic diet.

>> And bro, I turned in to the most

annoying diet zealot you could ever imagine.

>> I ruined I ruined Oh gosh. Can't like

Brandon, I ruined every dinner party. No matter where we were, I somehow shifted the conversation to let me give you my thoughts on a highfat, no carb diet.

Okay? I mean that I dude I was obsessive

and um and instead of convincing people

stopped wanting to hang around me >> because they were like whatever this guy's selling he's so annoying about it.

I don't want that in my life.

>> And now I have a new rule and I've had

to develop this rule since I took this new job but it served me well in my relationships outside of work. And that is I only answer questions that I'm asked.

And like Ken said, I like my life to speak the like speak for me first.

>> And so I want people to come up. I I could walk into every dinner. I I'm working on a marriage project right now. I could walk into every dinner and be like, you know what would fix y'all's marriage and would fix your marriage.

And they would all be like, get, dude, get away from me. But if I make sure I

put in the work every day to have the best marriage possible and my wife does too, then people are like, "Dude, what are y'all doing? How are y'all Why do y'all still like each other after this many years?" Right? And I Here's the

thing. Ken Ken nailed it. You're not going to solve an emotional answer with a data point. You're just not. I mean, look at our country for God's sakes, right? I mean, you you can be like, "Hey, here's the temperature." And people are like, "No, it's not. Here

is the Here's the color of the sky,

>> traitor. No, you're not. You know what I mean? Like, you're not on our side anymore. And so the everything is emotion. And so I love Ken's like, "Bro, do you have peace?" Cuz I drive an old car instead of a jacked up Jeep that I borrowed for $50,000 and it's depreciating every second I own it. I just have an old pickup truck, dude. And I don't mind if it gets dents. I I laugh in the in the in the shopping cart. I mean, the shopping parking lot when somebody dings it. Like, I have peace.

You don't have that. That's why I don't borrow money, man. And and if you want to do the nerd stuff and go down depreciation schedules and all that, you can do that. But that's almost always not the issue.

>> But hey, thanks for your service and thanks for your heart. John nailed it. You're just a great American all the way around. And and by the way, you'll have the opportunity >> you'll have the opportunity to speak into people's lives, but you got to earn that.

And uh and John nailed that.

found resonate with people are when I say I saw for peace, not for arbitrage.

And like I want I I call it a sleep tax.

I I paid off my 3.2% mortgage or whatever it was because um I could have

invested it. I could have tried to make the gap. I could have done all that because I put my head on my pillow every night knowing nobody can take my house away. That's I paid a sleep tax. And the other word is freedom. Nobody owns my family. No bank, no car dealership, no nothing. So, the words peace and the words freedom, um, those two words seem

to resonate when people are actually asking why do you avoid debt?

>> That's good. Let's go to Mark now. Mark is in Minneapolis. How can we help?

>> Yes. Um, I'm wondering if I I know you

strongly recommend term life insurance

>> and we're on baby step seven and um I

just want to know if it's necessary.

Yeah. Let's run through the numbers real quick. How old are you?

>> 51. >> Okay. And what's your net worth?

>> Uh 300.

>> Okay. And do you have any term life right now?

>> No. And and we don't have any debt.

>> Okay. Yeah, you definitely need term.

So, the reason I was asking you those questions is because sometimes people are self-insured in baby step seven. And the way to kind of react to this is, okay, if you were to die today, would your family be okay financially?

>> Well, they would still have to work, but

>> Well, what would they have?

What would they have upon your death?

What would they have?

>> They would have 300, >> right? And who's they?

>> How old? Who are they? >> Uh, just just my wife.

>> Okay. Is she working now?

>> Yes. >> Okay. is the and so the house is paid for all the things. So, I mean, I personally would want more, you know? I mean, we have a we have a basic fundamental. It's 10x your income, right? Um >> Uhhuh. >> And so, what's your income?

>> 50,000.

>> So, 500,000. I mean, here's what I would do. I'd call our friends at Xander Insurance. Yes, you need term. I think you need term%. Yes, you do. You don't have enough. Um and and so at a minimum,

your $500,000 policy so that your wife

would get that upon your death. I think that's a minimum, but call our friends at Xanderander.com uh and get their recommendation. Get get a quote. Uh you won't believe how affordable it is, Mark. And the return on this is low cost and big time peace.

John, give you a final word on this.

>> Yeah, dude. I You definitely definitely need it. I want my wife when I die to get to decide what she wants to do next, not have to go do a thing. >> That's right.

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It's the most awful time of the year, folks. It's tax season. That's right.

Christmas is gone. That's the most wonderful time of the year. John, >> mine are done, baby. >> Good. >> Done. Good for you. Well, for those of you that haven't done it yet, if you want to get some free checklist and guides that'll help you file, go to ramseyssolutions.com/taxes.

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Uh, pretty simple stuff there. If you have a simple situation that'll help you. Donna is up next in St. Louis.

Donna, how can we help?

>> Hi, nice to talk to you both. I have a question about retirement.

>> Okay, >> so I think we're headed in the right direction. are doing pretty well, but I was wondering why you'd recommend 15% to be saved off your gross income.

>> Ahu. Okay. Tell us where you are in the moment. What what's your situation?

>> Sure. >> Sure. 47 and my husband's 54. He is

completely disabled, so he he won't be working from today into retirement. And then I currently we have $748,000 in

retirement, $75,000 in savings. Our

house is paid for, no debt whatsoever.

>> Okay. >> And then I'm I'm kind of lazy. I save 20% to cover his income from disability and mine together in my employee sponsored 401k.

>> Okay. You think that's lazy?

>> It's lazy that I don't open up other accounts. I do it the just put the money in. I don't ever see the money and have it taken out each paycheck >> for both of us. And >> I don't think that's lazy. I think you're you're incredibly disciplined.

So, what's at the root of this question?

I understood your question, but what's the question behind why do I need to save 15% when you're already saving 20?

>> I'm very bad at spending money.

>> Okay. >> So, it's good to have bumpers in place so that I can plan accordingly and know where to spend

at and know when I retire that I, you know, I'll have about this much money and I can take out about this much. I just wondering the logic of the 15%. So, I have bumpers. Oh, >> so to speak. >> Well, again, I I I appreciate that, but I'm not hearing somebody who So, somebody who loves to spend so much and you're selfaware and you're kind of beating yourself up a little bit. You've done a darn good job. >> Oh, no, no, no. I don't like to spend.

I'm horrible at spending.

>> Oh. Oh, I misunderstood. You won't spend any money with money in my bank than I

would a new pair of shoes or >> I misunderstood. All right, I'm gonna bring in the good doctor over here who's been uh pursing his lips, furrowing his brow. >> I think you're awesome, Donna. >> I do, too. >> Oh, thank you. >> But why 15%? I mean, you can answer.

>> 15% is is is

a it's a number that will get most people to a comfortable retirement that does not take away the ability to live and enjoy their life while they're have while they have it. Mhm.

>> So if you retire with if you put away 7%

10% every month, you're going to find yourself not taking advantage of the full capacity of compound growth over time. So that you're and again you are thinking about future you. So when there

comes a day and your care of your husband's going to going to go up, it's going to be more become more difficult and more timeconuming. You have put in them a good amount of money that's going to keep you all comfortable and safe there when you're no longer able to work. And conversely, if you save 50% of

your income every day, you're going to end up with a ton of money and you're going to sit there at 70 on your on your on your front porch and realized, "Oh, my knees don't work. I can't go skiing now.

I can't I I can't do the things that I

could have done when I was younger." So, 15% gives you a number. That's That is

It's a stretch for some people. For you, it sounds like Is it sounds like it's not enough for you?

Uh I do 20 just to cover my husband's disability kind of so it's our whole gross >> but >> and do you pleasure from saving?

>> Are you saving out of a

out of out of a out of a scarcity mindset out of a compulsion or you have a husband with with unique needs right now and so you just see you know what this makes me feel safer today. I have no problem not doing X, Y, or Z because I really want to make sure we're good on the back end.

>> I would say some of both. I wouldn't call it a compulsion to save, >> but I definitely know that he's a little older than me. He does he is disabled.

It's going to cost a little bit. And I don't have children, so I want to make sure I have things in place that I can be taken care of. And I always say taken care of well, but they also, you know, they get to enjoy themselves as well while they're taking care of me. What is your income?

>> Sure. Our gross income is 135,000.

>> How much of that is you?

>> Uh he makes about 28,000.

>> Yeah. So after all expenses paid and

everything, how much margin do you have at the end of most months?

>> I can live on a shoestring.

No car payment. So we if we had to, we could live on his disability. >> No, no, you didn't answer my question.

>> You didn't answer my question. much margin. >> I I want a real number. I'm not holding you to it. I'm going somewhere with this. On an average month, >> how much extra cash do you have at your disposal? >> And cuz you know where I'm going.

>> Not what you can do.

>> That's right. >> I've done backpacking hunts out in the middle of the woods in the wilderness for days. I can do that.

>> How much cash? >> That's not sustainable. >> How much cash do you have left over?

So, I would say between three and $4,000

depending if my critter is getting a scuffle or something.

>> Okay, I get it. And the reason I'm asking is John said something that made me ask that question >> and I think uh whether you keep it to 20%, not going to argue about that. Or

you drop it to 15. John just said something I think is really smart. You need to take some of that, let's call it 3,000 >> and do something fun. Just live.

You're an incredible wife.

>> I know it is. Why? Because you just worth it. Is that what it is?

>> I'm sorry. What' you say? >> You don't think you're worth it?

>> I never think things are worth the cost, if that makes sense. I'm like, eh, I could stay at home. It doesn't make a difference. We are getting a new bathroom, so I am >> Oh, come on. That's where you That's where you go. Number one. Number two.

Like, what brings you home?

>> Women like a bathroom. No. What is fun?

>> I like walking my dog and hanging outside. >> Bad answer. Come on. >> Bad answer. >> No. No. No. No. Let me ask it this way.

>> Sure. >> What is something you have thought about doing recently and you went to your default answer you just shared with all of us, which is I don't think it's worth spending money on that. Give me a real answer.

>> For myself, I don't. But my husband, he always wants to get, you know, a new this or a new that. I'm like, "Yeah, we don't need it." >> All right, here's your hook. >> John's reading your mail. No, I'm not letting her off the hook. John's reading your mail. >> I think she's coping out by saying, "I don't think it's worth it. I think you're on to something. Dig a little bit." Yeah, I know he is. You have. So

does the audience, by the way. They're shaking their head in the lobby.

>> Listen, Donna. Um >> I I can only I could talk to you for an hour and we don't have that kind of time. I want you to I want you to tattoo what I'm about to tell you right in the middle of your soul. Okay?

You're worth you're worth laughter.

You're worth having fun.

You you have a very hard life. You're taking care of somebody as a primary caregiver and you work in a job where you make six figures. >> Mhm. >> That is not a punishment that you quote unquote deserve.

That is a role you have nobly and honorably stepped into and we celebrate you. And you're worth laughter. You're

worth joy. you're worth having fun even if you roll your eyes and think that wasn't worth that money.

And so your homework assignment is where's a place you want to go visit?

Where is a place that you want to take two of your girlfriends or your sister or your husband or what and that we want

to go and it's going to be obnoxious and it's going to be expensive and we are going to have a story to tell on our front porch one day when we're rocking in our rocking chairs.

Do you hear what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, I have one in mind, but I say I'm not What is it? What is it? What is it? Say it. Rip it. Rip it. I'm not die until I see Fiji. Like, I can't die until I see Fiji.

>> But you're You have $3,000 in margin every month and you're in great financial shape. >> How old are you? >> Save up. Like John said, what's a what's a cost of a trip to Fiji? Run the numbers on it and save up a little bit, but book the trip as soon as you get it.

But I think you need to start. I think you need to crawl before you walk.

>> Donna, when was the last time you did an entire spa day at a really high-end spa?

>> I don't do things like that. >> Okay. You do today. Today. You book it.

You book it today. >> It's going to change your life. By the way, >> don't go to Fiji when you're 70 and you can't go snorkeling and you can't run on the beach. Go when you're 40 freaking seven. You can afford it and you've worked hard.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. The phone number to jump in today is8825

5225. Tori is up next in Dallas, Texas.

Tori, how can we help?

>> Hey there. Um, so I'm just calling for

some advice. Um, so me and my husband

bought a house in early 2024.

We were both working. Everything was going great and then come 2025, we both

lost our jobs within about 3 months of

each other. Um, we honestly had no

savings. Um, we didn't realize how much

cost goes into buying a house and all the things we would need to purchase for our house. So, we completely ran through all of our savings doing that. Um when

we lost both of our jobs, we had, you

know, the house payment, we have bills, and then we also had purchased jet skis a few months before this happened. So we had that monthly payment along with the car insurance and his truck note. Um so

we ended up, you know, essentially living off of our credit cards, the mortgage company. I tried to get our mortgage lowered. I was getting unemployment at the time. he was not eligible for unemployment.

Um, this helped a little bit, but we did fall behind on the mortgage. I asked them for a lower mortgage. They made us enter a forbearance before they lowered

everything. So, we did that. And now I'm

working again. He is currently not working just because we do have a 1 and

1/2year-old. So, we would have to put her in daycare, which would basically be my entire paycheck. And he is planning

to leave for the military. We just don't

know when. So, right now, we sold his

truck to get rid of that in the insurance payment. But even with doing that, we're still not making ends meet.

The credit cards are getting way past due, and we also have to pay back what

was past due on the house. So, I I don't

even know where to start with everything or how to catch up.

>> Well, first things first, we got to fix the income situation. And I'm hearing really good, logical excuses, but

they're excuses. Okay, we got a one and a halfyear-old, so my husband can't work.

Daycare is too expensive. I get it. And by the way, that's all real. I'm not minimizing it, but I'm hearing logical reasons as to why we aren't working like crazy because we have an income problem.

Uh, so let's just get specific about that first and then we'll dive into how do we climb out of this. Did you replace

your income or are you are you making less? Are you making more? What is your income situation today versus where it was before you lost the job?

>> So I'm making the same amount that I was making before, >> which is how much?

>> Um, I bring in probably about 2500 a month. >> Doing what?

So, I actually work um I do billing

>> for just a small business or big corporation. Okay. >> For a small business. Um medical.

>> Okay. Uh and what did your husband do and what was he making?

>> So, he was a manager for logistics and

he was making more than me, probably about 3,000.

>> Okay. So, neither one of you were in highpaying jobs and yet we were buying toys. I just want to call that out. Do you understand what I'm saying?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, and when give us more on this military thing that was just as fuzzy as it could be. What do we know?

>> So, he's enlisted in the military. Um,

we do have to wait, you know, to find out when he goes to basic.

Um, it's sort of a waiting game with him. >> Do we have a range? >> Really? >> I'm sorry, what was that? >> Do we have a range? In other words, is the what what branch is he in?

>> Um, so he's going into the army.

>> Going into the army. And so the army hasn't told him. It might be three months, it might be six months. Is it just open-ended? We have no idea. Sit by the phone.

>> Yeah, as of right now, it's basically sit and wait.

>> Okay. And we have no one that can watch your child that is not a professional uh daycare situation.

>> No. Um, she actually used to stay with a family member who decided to go back to work. Okay. And could he work on the hours when you're at home?

>> Yes. So, he has been doing part-time

delivery? >> No. No. No. The maximum amount of money.

If he can make $20 an hour scooping something in a warehouse somewhere, that's what he does until the army calls him. >> Three. Three jobs. >> Three jobs. If he's watching the baby during the day, then he you don't see him at night. He doesn't sleep. He works on the weekends. I mean that this is the kind of level of intensity I want you to understand. You need you need income.

And can I tell you something? You need to be figuring out in the days ahead. I love that you got back to where you were. But you aren't making enough either. >> Yes.

>> Okay. John, you want to walk through the debt situation? Well, how how they get out of it? >> I mean, y'all are in a position now where y'all have like you have to choose reality.

Reality is y'all are broke. And this is a scary scary place to find yourself, especially with a one and a halfyear-old, especially with a with a husband who's about to be gone for who knows how long and who knows where.

And if you're not honest, if you don't choose reality about how this is emotionally taxing you, how you'll have no peace, you'll have no freedom in your home, you're not going to have the emotional um to use Kin's word, juice.

You're not going to have the emotional energy to go do what has to be done in this moment. And what has to be done right now is both of y'all have to work maniacally to climb out of this thing.

Sell everything you have. Sell the jet skiis. And if you're upside down on the jet skis, which you probably are cuz those are insane depreciating assets, then um save up the gap and sell them

and go pay those stupid things off.

>> So I actually did let them I did let

them take the jet skis. They went to auction and they sold them

>> probably about 10 $111,000.

>> Good gosh. That's why we don't let things go to auction. >> Are you guys on a budget at all?

>> Um, so I have my pay paycheck.

>> No, the answer is no. Just tell me.

>> What What's your total debt load? If you if you had to write a check today and would clear you and your husband back to zero, what would that number be?

Um, it's probably about

15,000 including what is what was in the

forbearance. >> I'm going tell you something. That's the best news I've heard on this phone. >> That is such a manageable problem.

>> If you go crazy working and selling

everything and you got to get on a budget. Now, we're going to give you every dollar.

Okay? So, in a minute, I'm going to put you on hold and we're going to get you in every dollar for free. our gift. You have got to start knowing where every dollar is going because right now to John's point, you're broke. You have no wiggle room at all. But you guys have got to go make some money.

>> Okay. And >> 15 grand is a very overcomeable problem.

>> Yeah, I agree. >> Okay. I am getting a good amount back on my income taxes. >> How much? >> Um, a little over 10,000.

>> Okay, great. So, $1,000 goes immediately. Baby step one. Are you familiar with the baby steps?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Baby step one, $1,000. Done.

>> Then we take $9,000.

>> Every penny. Put it every penny.

>> That's right. And now we're down to $6,000 of debt, >> which he should be able to clear with three jobs in 30 freaking days.

>> Now with a budget, you just got a raise.

You take all that debt and what am I paying minimum per month? We just got that in a raise because we are budgeting now. And I want you to tell him with all

the compassion in your heart that Ken and I called out his fatherhood and his

husbandry.

He needs to get off his butt and go take care of his freaking family today.

>> For the record, since he's going into the army, it was just John that said that. Just John. I'm just over here.

>> He needs to go get after. He needs to serve your family as much as he's about to go serve this country.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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All right, let's go to De Mo, Iowa.

Becca is joining us there. Becca, how can we help?

>> So, my daughter is going on a trip in

June for my cousin's daughter's

Makea-Wish trip. Um, and we were

thinking it would be nice to go as a family with myself, my boyfriend, and my

two-year-old and just do it all together. And it would be roughly 5,000 at the max for us

three to go since my daughter is already

paid for.

>> Okay. >> So, I was just wondering if it would be worth it to go or not. Well, tell us the

reason that you're asking us. There's there's another part of the story. Why are you questioning whether or not this is a no-brainer?

>> Well, I stay home, so I don't have a steady income. We We are going to use

the money that we got back from our taxes to do it. So, we don't always just have that money, but we're working on it. >> Do you have debt? >> Um, the only debt we have is my car.

>> How much?

10. >> How much you getting back from taxes?

>> Um, he's getting 4,000 and I'm getting 4,000. So, 8,000 altogether.

>> And then tell me about your daughter.

>> She's nine. Um, she we've never been on

vacation, none of us. Uh, so this would

be she's going to go regardless if we go, but I just thought it would be nice to go as a family. So, who whose make a wish trip is it?

>> It's my cousin's daughter. She's had cancer and is in recovery, so they're

they're doing that. >> Okay. No, you shouldn't go.

>> Okay.

>> I'm watching. The reason I let the awkward silence is because uh there's a lady out in the lobby who's looking at me like I have no heart. Like there's a lump of coal in my chest. And I appreciate that. Um, and I understand I

think I know where her emotions coming from and I think I know where John's emotions coming from. And I understand the Makea-Wish thing is that's a really big deal. Maybe I I should ask what the severity of the situation is. But I just have a feel from you the way you're wording all of this that this isn't as big as maybe it sounds. And and so in

that case, you guys um I hate that you've never gone on a vacation.

um you know, but you guys don't have a lot of income. Uh you're not working. I I I think for that reason that that tax

um refund is going to go a long way to

getting out of that car payment. What's your car payment every month?

>> Um it's 150 every two weeks.

>> Yeah. So 300 a month. Okay. So what would 300 a month mean to your every every month income?

Um, I do I do photography on the side,

but it's not >> That's not what I asked you. What would a $300 a month insertion into your monthly budget mean to you guys?

>> Not much. I don't think

>> I maybe that should be your water bill and part of your light bill, right?

>> Yeah. That's not the answer I was expecting from someone who told me that, you know, uh, what is your husband's income?

He makes 58 a year.

>> That's not a lot of money. And you're not making any money. So, for that reason, I'm taking a hard line. I love that your daughter gets to go with her cousin, but do you need to go with the 2-year-old to the tune of 5,000 given you guys are broke?

And if the audience doesn't like it, I I just don't think it's a good move. John, disagree with me. >> I I have no problem, by the No, I

this isn't sitting right in your spirit.

I want to hear why it's not. >> Yeah, that's the other thing.

>> I just I'm always worried about money.

Always. Whether we have it or we don't.

>> Well, because you don't have it. >> Yeah. Your worry your worry is justified.

>> Yeah. >> And so whenever I'm worried or whenever I'm anxious about something, I want to first ask, is my body right?

And in this case, you and your is it

your boyfriend you said?

>> Yeah. >> And how many kids do you have?

>> I have two. We have one together.

>> Okay. And how old are they?

>> My daughter is nine and my son is two.

>> Okay. Um, can I be real real direct with you since we have short time?

>> Yeah. >> You as the live-in girlfriend are in a

very precarious position right now.

especially with no income.

And you feel that, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay.

Your body's right.

And so if you told me, "I have a super

stable situation. I have earning potential. I am married in a long-term marriage." And we are anchored in. And this niece that I've got cousins that I know really well. I've got cousins that I don't know at all.

this niece is like a daughter to me.

Then in that situation, I would say, "Dude, go. Just go." >> Yeah. >> I'm not getting that sense. I'm getting a sense of I'm I am a in a very fragile

position as the girlfriend of the chief bread winner. I don't have a lot of I don't have equal power at the table in my romantic relationship. I'm taking care of these kids.

Our money situation is very, very fragile. and I'm just sick and tired of it. And I'm gonna express my sick and

tired by not going to get a job, not demanding that, hey, we need to get married and we need to make this thing official so that we can both anchor into this thing together. I'm going to take that out by taking the trip I just deserve.

>> Yeah. >> And you're going to come back from a $5,000 trip exhausted. Your kids are going to be cooked. They're going to have fun because it's freaking Disney.

But you're going to come back and you're going to have taken 8,000 of those dollars and you know as well as I do that spending his tax return is going to come at a cost. You know that.

And you're going to come back having spent >> Go ahead. Go ahead. >> I think our our relationship is pretty good. We don't like consider this is my money and this is your money. All of our money is together. >> Well, you don't have any number one. And number two, you guys aren't married.

Again, it's a fragile position. Let me put it this way. If he if he decides he doesn't want to be your boyfriend anymore today, what happens?

>> I don't know. >> Okay. >> Exactly. >> There we go. So, and so I I I I am I am

heartbroken with you and I'm siding with Ken on this one because I feel like you're about to go spend five grand you don't have because you're just sick and tired of being stuck in a position >> that you have a lot of autonomy to actually change. But that aut that that

change is going to disrupt the the reg like the rhythm of your relationship.

It's going to disrupt the rhythm in your home. It's going to disrupt a lot of stuff. But on the other side of that disruption is potentially a whole lot of peace. >> And I want to dovetail off of that, Becca. Here's what I would prescribe for you is that you let the sadness

and some anger over not being able to do this trip fuel you. And why don't you

guys get married and let's commit and

let's pay this debt off really fast because you can. and let's get $300 extra a month going and let's keep walking the baby steps out and get an emergency fund and uh let's be patient

and wait five years and take both kids to Disney cuz I'm going to tell you something right now. The little one is how old?

>> Two. >> Two. Can I tell you something? Taking a 2-year-old to Disney is like hanging out on the seventh level of hell. It It's like setting money on fire. By the way, everybody in the lobby agrees with me.

You're going to think you're doing something great and you're going to go, "I wish I had paid the car off and saved myself the stress of dragging a 2-year-old around the happiest place on earth." The irony of that is just rich.

So, you know, this is a little bit of let me say no to something that would be good so I can say yes to the best scenario for my life going forward. And you are really close

to being debtree. Let's get boyfriend into a husband. Let's get husband a better job. And then we go to Disney and

we don't feel it. And that way when you're miserable, you just spend a little bit more money on ice cream. And then it all regulates.

>> I know that's not the answer you wanted, Becca, but that's just that's just your your brother's skin and John being honest with you today.

Heat.

Heat.

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Mark is up in Columbus, Ohio now. Mark, how can we help?

>> Hey, Ken and John. Thanks for taking my call. It's an honor to talk to you guys.

>> You, too. Uh I was laid off of my job after nearly 30 years at the same company uh not too long ago where I was making about 190k. Um now my wife and I

have kind of a different point of view of whether I can get another job doing whatever I want, just don't care what it makes or whether I need to make more money. Because the deal is I'm only 53

and I won't be able to touch our retirement stuff for another 6 and 1/2 years. And so we need to figure out what the next steps for us are. So our net worth is 3.5 million and we have about

699K in nonretirement accounts and I'm

my wife is convinced that I don't need to work to make a bunch of money and I'm kind of the one that worries about this stuff and so I need to figure out if I can do something for fun no matter what it makes or whether I need to go find another job making about 190k or so for the next six years. Okay, a couple quick questions. What were you doing?

>> Uh, I was working at a big tech company, education tech company. I was doing a user interface design. User experience design. >> Okay. How would you describe yourself as a professional?

>> Uh, user experience designer. User >> UX. Okay. Um, okay. So, next I want to

know because you're the guy that's in the weeds on the money. You're the guy that's worried. Your wife seems to feel really good about it. Um, how much money, let's forget what we're doing.

How much money if I could just hand it to you? I said, "All right, Mark, you're gonna make this for as many years as you feel comfortable. How much money would be enough?" And I'm talking gross salary.

>> Uh, well, we have different views, my wife and I, but >> I didn't ask what her view is. I want to know what your view is.

>> Uh, I feel like at this point, if I could make 50k a year, just enough to cover some of the expenses that it would be okay. >> Okay. And is she very in tune with what

you guys have? You guys do the numbers together. She's not just saying this from some emotional point of view.

>> No, she's very intrigued.

>> Well, is she right or is she wrong?

>> Well, history will tell you that she's generally right on these kind of things.

>> Well, no, wait a second. Is that is that is that husband code? Cuz that's what we're all supposed to say. Or is that a fact? She really does have a good grasp of the numbers. >> No, she really does have a good grasp of the numbers. All right, I'm gonna actually bring in my colleague here because after my quick little line of questioning um and your validation of

your wife's a knowledge of your financial situation and B, she's got a

good track record of giving good financial advice. Uh John, I think this is a lot of fear. Yeah. Okay. So, give me something you are anxious about that has nothing to do with money.

>> Oh gosh. Uh my girl's future.

>> Okay, keep going. Give me two more.

Um, my health long term. I'm in good health right now, but I've just seen too many people go downhill. >> Give me another thing.

>> And you said not this, but just running out of money. Just not having enough.

>> Okay. So, this is the pot recognizing

the kettle here. Okay. So, I'm talking to you. Forget like that there's millions of people listening to us. Just it's you and me sitting down having nachos. Okay.

>> Okay.

Almost every time somebody approaches me

with a desperate eitheror decision, that is a

sign that they struggle with anxiety in other places in their life.

You have boxed yourself into a do something for fun where I just don't make anything and we all starve to death because the apocalypse is going to come hit us at any time.

Never mind the fact that I'm a multi- multi-millionaire, that my health is good, that my wife loves me enough to stay connected to me and to challenge me when appropriate.

I am going to forecast a future potential problem. I'm going to drag it into the present and not even try to solve it. I'm going to worry about it.

Right? Or the other solution you've given yourself is I need to go find something that I don't love, I don't care about, that's going to drive me crazy, but I'm going to make 190 grand.

>> And you've boxed yourself into an eitheror and you spend most of your day toggling back and forth. That toggling, the nerd word, is rumination. You're just spinning up stories and trying to solve them and tell yourself why you can or can't, why you should and why you shouldn't. And rumination never solves anything. It just makes us feel like we're exerting energy to solve a to towards a problem. It keeps us busy, but we never go anywhere.

>> And so what what I want you to to ch to challenge you on is this a I'm going to send you a copy of building a non- anxious life. Okay? And this is the

assumption that what if your anxiety is right? What if the things you worry about is right? And let me make like be super clear. All of the money could go away. It could.

You have set your family up in a position that you are hedged against that happening better than almost anybody Ken and I will talk to in the next two months. You're a multi-millionaire in your early 50s.

Your health is really dang good. You take care of yourself. You're a good steward of your body. Could you have a heart attack tomorrow? Yep. But you've done the work to put yourself in a position to where that's that's statistically unlikely. And I could keep going on and on, but I'm going to give you that book because I want you I want you to work through it. The second thing I want you to do is I want you to reverse engineer the day you quote unquote retire.

What do you want that day to feel like?

>> I just want it to be confidence and relief, relaxing.

>> Okay. That is not going to be found in a data point because you have data points and they're not solving that problem for you. >> That's right. It's going to be solved in a life built well on the way and it's

going to be built with you going towards something. Why wouldn't why why not consider doing something that you love and that makes 80 grand, 110 grand?

>> Yeah. >> How many months have you been laid off?

>> Uh just over five.

>> Okay. So, I'm getting paid through June basically. >> That's what I was wondering. So, I'm going to throw something out. I actually want John's opinion on this. I was listening. and I've talked about this before. >> Yeah. I I would love for you to try your

wife's plan for three months. So when

June when that last severance check cashes, whatever that next month is, so

you don't have any income. So maybe it's July, who knows? But I want you to go three months without any income.

Three months. >> I know. And and John may disagree with me, but let me play this out. your wife is tuned in. Uh, go 60 days. I don't

care. It's not a magical formula I'm dropping here. But go enough time where you're where you're able to actually see what life is like with your wife's suggestion and do everything that John said, but force yourself to go, I'm going to take at least three months or two months and I'm not going to have any income and let's just see how we do.

>> What is life like? >> I'm going to add another thing to it.

I want you to spend those two months because here's the other thing I think you're missing. Um Ken and I have talked about this at length over the over the years. Getting laid off, your body experiences that as a death.

>> That's right. >> The loss, the grief attached to that loss is significant because somebody somewhere in a room said, "I don't want you or need you here anymore." >> Mhm. >> And that hurts, man.

>> Right. >> Yeah. >> And it's existential. Who am I without this title? Who am I when I'm not this job? When I'm not in this role? Who am I going to be now? And is this going to could this happen again? The answer is yes. And you start spinning up stories and you get stuck. So in addition to pressure testing, is my wife right?

>> Also, I want you to begin to fill your

day up with things that you that bring you purpose. Who are you going to help?

So that's you not just sitting at home scanning the internet, watching news, or scrolling on your phone. That is you committing to I'm gonna volunteer for three different organizations in my community. I'm gonna take a class to get this other certification. You know what?

I hate coding. I hate it. I'm gonna say it out loud. I hate coding. I'm going to go fill in the blank and begin finding

doing not thinking about doing things.

Action or emotions often follow action.

Go do some things that bring you value and bring you purpose. And man, you're going to come out of this on the other side with a whole with a with a clear path to move forward.

Heat. Heat.

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>> All right, today's question comes from Chase in Indiana.

I Man, this starts out I mean, he doesn't mess around. I don't want to do it, but I'm about to divorce my wife due to financial infidelity. We have amazing kids and she is my rock, but she has a major spending problem. This is the second time she has gone into debt and kept me in the dark until the creditors come calling. I'm devastated and want to take the easy way out. But even if we get separated, she would still need financial help. I am 45 and she is 48.

Can you give me some Sorry, brother. Can you give me some guidance on how to help her re-engineer her mind about money and finance so she can be the amazing wife I

know she can be? Oh boy.

>> Except it's not about her mind, is it?

>> Yeah. You Man, what do you think, Ken?

Well, this is your lane. >> Yeah. >> Uh, but you got a lot of wisdom. >> I'm just playing one on TV at the moment. >> You got a lot of wisdom. >> Um, >> I'm going to say with everything in my being, fight the urge to divorce her. U, I

would just fight until there is absolutely no way you can fight. I don't think divorce is the answer. Uh, I think she's got some deep emotional problems and I think she needs some therapy. she needs her husband to sit with her and all of that. So, I would tell him, um,

financial infidelity, I get it. Um, but

with the kids, I just I've read too much about divorce. I know enough to get me in trouble, and I know enough to say that it's just never an option until

it's the only option.

>> Yeah. And and Chase, I

man, this is this has rocked your world.

And totally understand. You're looking at two husbands right here. If this happened a second time, I mean, it's it it's devastating, right?

>> Um, but I want you to begin to be very

honest. She is not your rock.

>> And when you keep saying she's this and she's this, but also this, it becomes destabilizing in your own mind. So, I want you to be honest about I don't trust my wife

and my wife has not shown that she is

willing to delay gratification to deal

with some of the demons that are haunting her that she's choosing to try to keep at bay with spending or with hiding or with secrets or whatever. And so, we're going to be very honest about our place in this marriage. We're going to choose reality when it comes to our marriage. What is the state of things?

the state of things is if we're really really honest. Almost never is somebody quote unquote a rock in every facet except they just go into crippling debt, creditors called and they hide it from us and they lie about it. That's almost never the case.

Occasionally it is, but almost never it is. Um, so we're going to be honest about the state of things and you're going to sit down with her and you're going to give her a roadmap to what reestablishing trust would look like.

and you're going to be honest about your the precariousness of your situation.

And so for a season, I would and can

push back on this. I would say I am going to open a checking account that is just for us and the kids.

>> I am going to ask you to to freeze your credit account and give me the code to it so that you cannot borrow money.

>> Um I am going to ask that because this is the only way I'm going to feel safe for the next 30, 60, 90 days. And then we're going to revisit it. and I'm going to ask that you go see somebody because you clearly are struggling with things way under the surface. And like this isn't about re-engineering her mind about money and finance.

This is that is just the that's the blinking red light over the problem. The problem is much deeper. And we're going to get to the root of where else is she not being fully honest with you? Where else is she not allowing herself to be seen and known?

Where else are you not a safe place for her to land? And so she feels like she has to kind of work around to you because you have your own opinions and your own judgments, etc. We're going to peel this thing all the way back to the bedrock here and we're going to be honest about the state of our marriage and then we're going to choose and both of you have to be in on this. We're going to rebuild this thing brick by brick to this thing that we want it to be.

And the beauty of it is if y'all have both chosen or one of y'all has chosen to blow the thing up, you both can choose to rebuild it. It's the same choice just on the different side of the ledger here. Um, but this is if you try to solve this with financial, with numbers, with spending habits, that's not the issue here yet. You'll get there, but that's not the problem here.

It's much deeper than that. >> Yeah. >> Appreciate the question, man. We're rooting for you.

>> Let's go now back to the phones.

Andrew, how can we help?

>> Hey, how's it going, gentlemen? Um, basically, uh, got some car debt, got some student loan debt. Um unex not really unexpected

baby on the way but we just got pregnant a lot sooner than I expected and just

curious if I sell the truck that I have get a beater and start pouring it into the student loan debt or just pay off the truck cuz it's newer.

>> When's the baby due?

>> Baby is due. So we're 12 weeks. Baby's due around end of September.

>> Okay. End of September. How much uh debt do you have? Walk us through the debt.

Um 50 grand in car loan, 100 grand in student loan, and then we have our house. >> Okay. So, we'll take the house off the table right now. Are you familiar with our baby steps?

>> Somewhat. >> Okay. So, uh the 50 grand in the car.

What's the car? What is it? It's a truck. And what's it worth if you were to private sell today?

>> Uh probably 60.

>> Yes. Yes. We sell that truck immediately. >> Sell it yesterday. Immediately.

>> Even if I can pay it off in two month two more months. >> Yeah. What do you make? >> Two more month. Whoa, you buried the lead. What do you make?

>> Um, so we pull in about 220 after taxes.

>> Okay. Well, that would have been nice to know. >> Yeah, lead with that next time. Hey, we're rich and we're having a baby and I'm I'm terrified. Lead with Lead with that next time. >> Yeah. Pay Yeah. Pay off the truck in two months. Yeah. >> Okay. >> And uh and then that leaves the 100K in student loans. Is that right?

>> That's right. >> Yeah. That one's going to take longer.

And so, you know, we we tell people it's okay to pause baby step two, which is paying off debt, smallest to largest, to save up money. You know, we're gonna get in stock mode, right? We stock cash just to make sure. And then, by the way, what we're doing here is is we want to look at what our deductible is, right?

>> And we want to make sure we got plenty of cash, that we don't have any surprises, uh, and and that we plan as well as we can for baby, right? and and then once baby's here uh then it's that massive

income knocking off the student loan.

All right. So that's baby the income reduces after baby cuz uh my wife is you

know she'll get her her little bit for baby leave. Um and she says she'll start

working again after x amount of months.

Um >> the way you just said that she will not >> Yeah. You don't believe her? >> No. She's going to stay home with baby and she's going to be like yeah I'm good. How much how much do you owe on your house? >> Uh 250. >> Okay. Uh so what what if she if she leaves the workforce for good? What's that going to reduce your household income? >> Um it's going to go down to about 185.

>> Yeah. And what what needs to happen for you to make more money?

>> Um I'm actually working on getting a raise. Um so that's that's in the works.

>> What would that take you to?

>> Um it could take us up back up to what we were making before. >> Great. So, the answer is um uh you don't

have to sell the truck, but what worries me is that you get off this call and then you talk yourself into keeping the truck. Um so, part of me wants to go

sell it, take your medicine, uh you know, and buy a $10,000 truck, you know, but you don't have >> I want to sell it, but the wife is like, "It's a good truck. It's newer. It's got a great warranty." She's the one trying to do now, John.

>> I'm like, "I'll I'll I don't care. Give me a Corolla. She She's right and you're

right. Okay. So, the the bigger issue to

me is y'all make 220 after taxes. Y'all have nine months.

>> Yes. >> Could And you your house payment's only two a $250,000 house.

>> Uh yeah. Okay.

>> Maybe. Yeah. I maybe I owe a little living in it for about a year now. >> This is going to sound crazy. This is going to sound nuts.

Is there any possible way y'all could squeeze out and just live on a hundred grand this year since you have no other expenses? >> Absolutely. Yeah, >> of course you could. You could live off 75. If y'all will just suck it up for one calendar year, you will pay off your student loans and the dumb truck. >> And for that reason, I'd sell the truck.

>> Yeah, I would too. >> I'd buy a $10,000 truck and you're going to save all this cash that you would be putting towards the 50,000. I want to hold that cash and put it to the loan.

>> Buy Yeah. pay our student loans off and tell your wife, "Hey babe, appreciate it. Love you, but uh I don't need to drive this truck." That's what I would do. And then save up and buy a truck after the baby's born.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside John Deloney, I'm Ken Coleman.

Thrilled that you're with us. The phone number is 888255225.

Kate is up now in Oklahoma City. Kate,

how can we help?

>> Hi guys. Um, I would just like to know how I should go about a conversation with my dad asking him to get another job because he's been asking me and my brother for money for like bills and groceries. >> What? How long has this been going on?

>> Oh, years. I mean, >> how old is he? >> Um, he is 62.

>> Okay. And is he on his own?

No, my mom is still around. She was a

caretaker for my grandma, but she recently passed away, so she is unemployed right now.

>> Okay. And how much money are we talking

about in how many years? Uh, well, let me let me ask I'm sorry. Let me ask it differently. On the average ask, how much money is he asking you and your brother for at a time?

>> Um, it really varies anywhere from like 20 bucks to a couple thousand. Okay. I I

just am trying to get a range for, you know, how big of a problem he's got going on. And And uh you said years, how many years?

>> Yeah. So, um we had a family business for a long time and we would work um I've been working since I was like nine.

So, kind of since then. So, 10 years.

>> He's been asking you and your brother for money for 10 years to help pay his bills.

>> Yes. >> And you've been giving it to him the entire time?

Yes. >> All right. That All right. I got to bring in the good doctor here.

>> I mean, >> I set the table and now you get to clean it. I Wow. We got some deep-seated issues going on here, John. >> Yeah. You you you you asked for two things and you can only control one of them. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And so, the only thing you can control here is is um no thank you

or thanks for asking. I'm not in a position to give right now.

>> Or if you want to be if you if you're ready to draw a forever boundary,

um I'm not going to be able to give you or I'm going to choose not to give you money anymore. And the more honest you can be there, the better. Do you still work in the family business with him?

>> Um no, it we had to sell it. He's in

quite a bit of debt, so we had to >> Gotcha. Okay. you you can't recommend he get a new job because he doesn't think he needs one cuz he doesn't. He has two kids that he's been leeching off of for years.

>> He's going to have to come to that on his own.

>> And >> yeah, >> I just want to tell you I'm I'm as a dad

of a daughter sitting next to another dad of of another daughter,

I want to tell you I'm sorry because no dad should put his daughter in this position.

>> Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, >> you've been carrying him for a long time and that was never your job.

>> What's going to happen when you do what John tells you to do? How's dad going to react? >> I can tell you he's going to react like a child, right?

>> Yeah. I I don't know exactly. He definitely asks more from my brother.

But, um, >> is your brother fed up with this, too?

>> He's definitely more lenient on it. He's kind of like, well, mom and dad need money, so I'm going to give it to See, John, that's another dynamic cuz we're giving Kate this advice. Kate's calling us. >> Yeah. >> But if brother's going to continue to help, this is never going to get any better. So, even more so, Kate, do you do what John tells you? >> And you're going to be isolated even more.

>> Yeah. And the reason I'm bringing that up with John next to me is because I I think you need to be prepared for dad.

>> You said you don't know what he's going to do. He's not going to react in a good way. And now he's going to put more pressure on your brother. and brother may come to you and go, "What are you doing?" I guess, John, I wanted to be prepared for the worst case scenario so that we protect Kate.

>> I I mean, I think Kate's going to have to make some choices about do you have community? Do you have people you can count on? Do you have someone you can talk to because this is going to be an isolating, rocky storm to to weather,

>> right? I'm actually um moving out um in

April. >> Good. and and the faster you can establish yourself on your own two feet um somewhere else where you've got some more autonomy, then this will definitely reduce.

>> Okay? >> But it it will be incredibly uncomfortable, disheartening, heartbreaking. And so I'll say it this way. If it takes you

um giving him money to preserve the relationship, the relationship you want to be there does not exist.

Yeah, >> it's a it's a predatory relationship.

You owe me. I'm your dad. >> I think I keep giving them money because I just feel bad they don't have money for bills and I don't want them to.

>> That's right. >> You know. >> Okay. Um I want to walk you through something that I learned from my my buddy uh Becky Kennedy. She's a psychologist in New York. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Um I I would have told you in the past

like you're feeling guilty, right? and she she changed the way I think about guilt.

>> She said, "Guilt is a good feeling that

your body experiences when you violate your own values." >> Right?

>> Guilt is not the feeling you get when

you do something that is in alignment with your values and somebody else is uncomfortable or mad or pissed off at what you just did and you try to grab their feelings and manage them for them.

And so, is it a violation of your values

to take care of yourself, to make sure you're on your own two feet, and to stop funding your dad's behavior?

>> Yeah. No, I I definitely need to. I'm I'm definitely ready to move out.

>> Okay. So, when he comes at you full storm, when your brother comes at you full storm, make a commitment to yourself. By the way, you you you don't just declare this like Michael Scott, like I declare bankruptcy. This is hard and it's painful and it takes years.

Okay? But make the commitment to yourself. I am not going to try to manage y'all's anger, your frustration, your demands, your coercion. I'm not going to try to manage that. I'm going to be in control of me and I'm going to be compassionate, respectful, honorable.

I'm going to always tell the truth. I'm going to be a person of integrity and I'm going to do what I can do. And in this season, I don't have that kind of money to continue to support you in that way.

>> Okay. Thank you. >> And that's hard. And that's like Ken's right, man. That that is painful.

Painful.

>> Where's mom at in this? >> Yeah. Where is she?

>> So, um, my mom So, I'm actually moving

and the job I have now, um, she's going to take it over, but it's not going to be for a month. >> Okay. >> What What What is she going to make?

Um 20 oh after taxes it's going to be

about 600 a week. >> Okay. And is does mom where's mom at

with the way dad is putting the pressure on you and your brother? Is mom just this silent who just lets him do whatever? I mean what's the deal?

>> She um she definitely feels really bad about it. She she cries to me a lot about it because

she's in a really tough position of >> I know she is and because we have such limited time I'm I'm digging here. John, what can she do to encourage mom to try

to step in here?

>> I I I again I don't know that she can get mom to do anything. I agree. She can say, "Hey, mom, I just want to let you know um as I'm moving out here, I need

to establish my finances, my emergency fund. I need to pay off my debts that I have and I need to establish myself and so I am not going to continue to give y'all money for the next season. And I know that's going to make dad mad. You and I have talked and I know this whole thing has always made you uncomfortable anyway.

I just want you to know I'm going to have this conversation with dad when he calls. And maybe your mom will say, "Bless you for having the strength that I wasn't able to exert over the years because I've been in this other pressure cooker." Or maybe she'll get mad at you, too. Who knows?

But I would have that level of cander and that level of directness and make it as short as possible.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? working your whole life and never having anything to show for it, never having the long-term gain, just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom. But you need the right tools to do it, like our Every Dollar Budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget. so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the Every Dollar app and start for free today.

All right. So, uh, we we get a lot of questions, a lot of calls where we're inevitably saying you need more income, right? Yes. Every dollar and getting control of your money, knowing where it's going, uh, is huge, but most of the

time, uh, if if you're struggling, it's

not just your expenses, it is also your income. And, uh, the reality is is that

we've had a very popular article. It's called 14 best work from home jobs you can apply for today. And this is all about increasing your income, right? I need more. I'm in gazelle intensity and I got to bring some some more money in.

And again, I'm not going to read this word for word. Uh you can click the link in the show notes to to get this. But you're looking at things like virtual assistant is on the list, right? A tutor, customer service, where again,

I'm working at home, which means you can wear those sweats, you know? Hey, and

and and and you got a laptop, whatever.

Um graphic design, accounting, bookkeeper, teaching, uh video editing, things of that nature. That's just a few of of the list. And again, go to the show notes and get it. Uh this is a very popular article at ramseysolutions.com.

14 best work from home jobs you can apply for today. So, um, the point is is that where there's a will, there's a way. And we're actually giving you a list of some very specific things to be

looking at that don't require a lot of ramp up time, but can provide real money

so that you can get out of debt. So, go check it out. Link in the show notes.

Josh is up next in Jackson, Mississippi.

Josh, how can we help?

>> Hey, man. Uh, I was just wondering. I'm getting married in a month and I'm just

Thank you. Um, super excited about it.

Really excited to not have to pay for this wedding anymore.

>> Um, >> and just basically me and my fiance. Um,

we have what y'all would call bad debt, about $12,000 in credit cards. Um, most

of that went towards, you know, paying for the wedding and then we mostly cash flowed it. Uh, I don't have a car note.

My fiance has, I think, $20,000

uh, left on her car and completed baby

step one so far. just trying to figure

out a how to navigate

the marriage finances and just overall building, you know, something with that.

And then my fiance wants to

move like we want to move to Alabama and

she wants to open a nutrition tea

business. >> A nutrition what?

>> Tea like the uh fit te's.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. I think it's a horrible idea.

>> Um, and let me explain. Uh, not necessarily the business prospect.

So, I I'm have a little bit of fun. Uh, I want to do a little misdirection.

It's not that her business idea. I don't know anything about fitness tea. Okay.

What I am saying is a bad idea is for us to get married and we're going to start

a business when we're trying to start a life. >> Um, I >> I got some red flags. Now, if you can give me some facts as to why it might be

a great idea. >> I think it's not a good idea for other reasons, but go ahead. >> Oh, great. No, add it real quick.

>> Oh, hold on. I want to get John's take a good idea at all. >> Why is it Give me your take on why it's a bad idea. >> Here's why, brother. You are painting a picture of two people in a month who are about to join like about to anchor into

into concrete together and say, "Till death does us part." and y'all are not

aligned on how y'all spend money, how y'all earn money, the the commitment it takes when

she's trying to get a business off the ground, how you're going to carry the load at home. This is going to be a 9010 marriage for a while. And that's awesome in seasons when y'all are both in on that and how y'all going to come out of like y'all have to get your values aligned ASAP, >> which is by the way what I what I was saying. You're trying to start a life and the first year of marriage is the hardest year in my opinion because you're taking two individual lives, environments that you're bringing in and and John said it way better than me.

I'm in complete agreement, but that's why this is a bad idea, not her actual business idea. >> So, here's what this looks like in re in real time, brother. This is y'all sitting down and saying, as a married couple, how do we value >> work? How do we like what are our values around how we're going to spend money?

How we're going to save money? Is one of y'all's core values together? We will never be owned by a bank, by a car dealership, by a government entity when it comes to debt. Cool.

We're going to we're going to we're going to anchor into that one. And that's going to decide how quickly y'all pay off your debts. That's going to decide how quick how small your wedding is rel relative to how big y'all actually wanted it to be. it it's going to decide, okay, we're going to start this tea business, but we're gonna wait three years because we're going to start it with cash.

We're not going to start it with an SBA loan and put that on top of the car payments, on top of the student loans, top of the credit cards, just as we're getting out of our marriage. You get what I'm saying? >> Yeah. No.

And we had a conversation about that.

opened these businesses before and they all have taken out SBA loans and you know I we kind of had a hard conversation about it. Um I told her that we would need to if it was even a possibility to cash flow that business

like there's no point taking out >> but down the line. So, what she needs to hear from you is I I think this is a fun thing, but but let's let's as we're engaged, and I want John to to add to this or edit what I'm about to say, but the way I would approach this because I I am in no way saying that you say to her what I said to you, okay? I want to be clear, but I do think you have to say, I think we should discuss

big things in our marriage that we think are down the line. let her throw out some things, kids, or we want to uh live

part-time in Costa Rica for one year, whatever these big fun things are that I think it's great for for uh engaged couples to to talk through. But if if we could get that to that list of that's down the line and and and try to encourage her that I don't know that's the best move. We're about ready to get married. We're going to move somewhere else, John.

And and so I I I want to set him up for a win here because I don't want her to hear no. I'd rather her hear. I don't think that this is the best time.

>> Well, and and it's just the way you get around it is not get around it, but the way you go right through it is let's talk first principles first.

>> Who are we are we going to be a couple that borrows money? >> And that's when you tell her, I don't feel safe when I when I owe somebody money >> and I'm uncomfortable. And she might say it, let me tell you the truth. in my house. Like, this may be a shocker for Ramsay fans.

A mortgage keeps I can't sleep if I have if I owe somebody money. It drives me insane. Literally, I've trapped my sleep. It makes me crazy. >> You sure it's not the gummy bears? >> It's that, too. >> Okay. >> It But my wife, dude, a mortgage doesn't bother her at all.

>> Not even a little bit. But on this issue, it's such a big deal to me that she says, "I love him more than I love

my little pet project or that I love my little whatever." And so I'm allin with him, but let's make a plan.

You get what I'm saying? And she is into gardening. She's got these big elaborate amazing gardens. I'm not I'm not a I'm not a big I'm not a gardener, but I love the fact that she loves this stuff so much. And so I'm like, "Hey, how can we make this thing happen? How can I support you? How can I go build fencing for you? And so that's what I'm talking about. Go to first principles.

Who are we going to be when it comes to sex? Who is it? Who are we going to be when it comes to money? When we have a discussion, a debate, a disagreement on how many kids we want to have, how who are we going to be in that disagreement?

You get what I'm saying?

>> Mhm. >> And that's my fear for you guys is has she ever run a business before?

>> Uh, no. >> Okay. Has she ever hired employees?

>> No. Has she ever navigated building leases?

>> No. >> Okay. That is an extraordinary amount of pressure to drop on a brand new marriage that's already underwater financially. >> And by the way, she needs to go work she needs to go work for somebody that's in that space and get a free education on how to run a business like that. >> Oh, she she has >> Okay. Well, then take notes. >> The the person who is, you know,

sponsoring her to you have to get

sponsored through this company to do it.

>> Yeah. Is it AA? I think it's a pyramid.

>> Oh, it sounds like a pyramid.

>> Yeah, it kind of does.

>> Yeah. I I I I think we have uh hopefully

given you the why and the how here, like

Ken said, I want to reiterate what he said because it was it's very wise. If you go at her and you say, "We're not doing this business. This is dumb. We shouldn't." Boom. World War II because y'all are going to be fighting proxy wars and you're not going to deal with the real issues. The real issues are you using I statements. I feel, I'm scared of, I'm uncomfortable with. Will you join me in this discomfort? That's how you move forward. Not with you statements, but with I statements.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramiesolutions.com.

All right, this is always fun when we get a baby steps millionaire who calls in to share their story. And right now

we've got Amy who's on the line in Indianapolis. Amy, congratulations on being a Baby Step Millionaire.

>> Oh, thanks John and Ken. I appreciate that. >> Well, let's get the numbers here. What is your net worth?

>> 1.6. >> 1.6. That's not shabby. Give us the mix.

>> Um, about 900,000 in mutual funds, about a 100,000 in IRA, about 500,000 on my

house, a couple of cars, and some money in the bank. I love that. Uh, did you use a

investment pro to help you on this journey? >> You know, actually I did not. Well, I kind of did. I had a friend who was really, really good with money, so he kind of guided me. But now that I'm actually there, my house is paid off. I intend to go that route in the future.

>> That's fantastic.

>> Build more wealth. >> Now, I don't normally ask a lady her age, but this is part of the story. So, if you'll forgive me, how old are >> you? down 26. But >> well, that's I'm out of here. Right.

>> And double nickels.

>> Uh 55. I've not heard that one before, but I'm quick. I am quick over here.

>> You are. >> Okay. 55. All right. And uh give us give

us a range of your income. The lowest income you've ever made and then give us the most amount of income.

>> The lowest was 125.

>> And that was um 38 years ago, and I doubled that salary the first year on commission. So >> nice. You can do the math there. And then my top salary is 114. So, not bad, but not not huge. >> What do you do?

>> I am assistance trainer for an insurance company. >> Nice. And have you been in insurance that your entire career or is it something you moved into later? Okay.

Gotcha. All right. >> 38 years. >> Did you get a degree, college degree?

>> You know, I did get a degree. However, I didn't do it until I was 44.

>> Wow. >> Um, work decided decided I decided that

I wanted it for me. work that they pay for as long as I maintain a certain GPA.

So, I did it for me. It did not increase my salary. It didn't change my job. I just did it because I didn't do it when I was younger and I felt like, not that you have to have a degree, but for me, I didn't do well in high school and I always thought I was a little not there in the brain. So, I thought, you know what? I'm going to just try it for myself just to prove to myself that I can do it. And I did.

>> Amy, you just described how I feel on a regular basis. I say to myself, I don't think I'm there in the brain.

>> Yeah, >> it happens to me on a regular basis.

>> That's why I went to grad school for so long. It's cuz I was trying to prove like to my high school self like >> Yeah, I I'm with you. I'm tracking. I'm proud of you. That's awesome. Good for you. >> Thank you. >> Uh okay, let's talk about uh

when it clicked for you. When did it click for you that a you should make this pursuit?

Uh, and what was the key to getting where you are today? Two-part question.

>> All right. Part one was I I remember this very clearly. I was 29 years old. I bought my first house. I had debt.

Didn't make much a lot of money. I made enough to buy the house, but you know,

therefore, and I thought, you know what?

I am paying all this money on these credit cards and it's dumb. So, I said,

never no more. So, I created a plan. It really happened to be the Dave Ramsey plan. I just didn't know of Dave Ramsey at the time. Right. But I put all my credit cards on a spreadsheet in some other whatever system I would use a Ramsey today. And you know, they told me pretty much his plan. So I did it. Got out of debt and said never ever again.

>> Wow. So what is the key to I I imagine

there are a lot of uh young ladies listening to this and maybe they're early in their career not making a ton of money. How what would you say to them if you could have coffee with them to get to where you are today? What do they need to do? You got to be smart with your money. Um,

for me it was I had to have goals. I plan them out and I had to stick to them. >> I couldn't buy the shoes. I couldn't buy the comforters. You know, I couldn't buy the things that made you feel better >> because I looked at the spreadsheet and went, "Yes." And then when I went to pay my house off, the current house that I have now, I put a a pad of paper on my

refrigerator and I had the balance. And every time I made a payment and an extra payment, I wrote it on there. So every day when I open the refrigerator, I was like, I'm that much closer.

>> Wow. >> And then I just did it. >> I love it. And you mentioned car or did I hear you say cars earlier?

>> I have two cars. >> Tell us about those, you millionaire.

>> Yeah, I got a 19 Subaru and a 2007 Chevy

Silverado. >> So nothing fancy. >> See, runs on oat milk and granola.

That's awesome. >> Yes, exactly.

>> I love it. Well, this is >> I didn't buy the Chevy Silverado new.

That was probably dumb, but I did. and the Subaru was a company car. And when they got rid of my company car, I said, "Oh, I kind of like this car." So, I just paid cash for it. >> Yeah. A 2019. So, it's a great car. Good

for you. >> It's a fantastic car. Uh, well, we really really appreciate you, Amy. This is um it's always fun for us to hear

from uh Baby Steps Millionaires. You've done it. You gave some great advice. So, thanks for being with us. Love that.

Let's go to Edgar, who's in our backyard of Nashville, Tennessee. Edgar, how can we help?

Yeah. What's going on, you guys?

>> What's up? How we doing? >> Just trying to help America, Edgar, and you're up next.

>> All right. Um, well, I it's uh it's

Thank you guys for having me. Um,

>> I was looking to see uh if you guys have any advice on what I should do right now, uh, with uh my financial situation

that I've got going on and everything.

>> All right, set us up. What is it? What's going on? All right. I work as a as a janitor at elementary school and I work at a McDonald's as well. Um I get paid $14 an

hour weekly at the elementary school and I get paid 13 exactly at uh the

McDonald's, but it's bi-weekly pay. So I make about uh 16 $1,700 a month.

Um I have $900 left in debt. I took out

a payday advance and I I owe $350 on

that and I owe my mom about

$550.

>> And then I'm trying to know what I should do because I got a really good job offer to boost my annual income from

$12,000 to 80 to 100,000.

Um >> Okay. Why are we Why are we talking about that? Yeah, do that job. What What's the status of that?

>> It's uh I'd be helping uh people like

I'd be helping people uh set up money for retirement accounts and investing and everything. >> No, no, no. I I appreciate that, but what is the status of taking that job and starting that job?

Oh. Uh, I have to pay about $400 for the

uh I have to pay 200 to finish getting

my license and then I have to pay the uh classes and everything. >> So, I'd be finding $400.

>> Well, is it is this 80 to 100,000? Is this like we're going to give you the leads and if you just close them, is this like a fancy Tupperware sales thing? they they give uh they so there's

going to be somebody who promotes it and then there's going to be me who will take the call and I'll be like if you want to put $500 a month in here uh I'll

set you up for that right now.

>> Okay. All right. Hold the sketch.

>> I got to tell you, I thought you were talking about you were going to get into a a money management where it's actual real like a smart investor pro and they they kind of seed you your first year or two until you bring in the accounts.

What I'm hearing sounds really shady.

>> Yeah, it's a marketing thing. Don't do this. >> Don't do that. So, let's talk about how we bring Huh. >> No, no, no, no. You're gonna find yourself out a whole bunch of money for this course work. You're going to keep having to pay courses. You're not going to get the clients that you think you're going to. >> No one's going to say yes to this because John and I sniffed sketch on this in one sentence when you describe

the work. So, no one's going to buy that from you. We have limited time with you.

Um, number one, you need to be on every dollar and you don't have any money. So, I'm going to give you every dollar because you need to begin with just a little bit amount of money you've got.

You need to get a budget. Now, the good news is you're almost out of debt. Okay?

But you need to be working a much better paying job. How old are you?

>> I just turned 20 recently.

>> Okay, great news. >> That's awesome, man. >> You go work at a big box store, a Home Depot, a Lowe's, a Walmart. Like, let's go find something that's in that $20 an hour range. uh maybe he's got some benefits. I don't care if you're working at a coffee shop that pays well. You got to get on your feet and you have the good news is you have very little debt.

The bad news is you have no money either. And I'm not sure you know how to manage money. So, what I want you to do is hold on the line. Um and let's get you in every dollar. This is way more than a budgeting app. It's like having John and I in your phone. Uh coaching.

It's got coaching in there. It's not just getting you started on a budget, which you need to do. Uh, and I also want to give you Total Money Makeover so you can see the long-term picture of how the baby steps play out for a young man like you to where you're a multi-millionaire scam. >> And you're not afraid of hard work, which I love. You just got to have the right plan.

Hey guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsay's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you.

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ramiesolutions.com/ins insurance.

Our scripture of the day is Proverbs 28:19.

Whoever works his land will have plenty of bread, but he who follows worthless pursuits will have plenty of poverty.

And our quote of the day from Henry Ford, thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so

few engage in it. By the way, I want to point out that that's a great example of back in the day, you could insult somebody and they never even knew it. And that's that's one of those things, right? You can see Henry Ford, he was he was throwing some sarcasm out, but you read it in today's context and it sounds like this deep quote when what he's really saying is is uh there are a bunch of morons out there because nobody knows how to think.

>> But now all of our leaders talk like elementary school kids and they're like you're dumb. You're dummy >> and you're right. >> You don't have you don't have elevated >> right.

benefits and one is insulting somebody right to their face and they have no idea what you've just done. It's really fun. Hey, that should that's a bit too.

That is I like it. Uh Will is up in Toronto, Ontario. Will, how can we help

you? >> Hi. Hey, how's it going? >> Good. What's going on today?

>> I have a Christian values question related to lending money at interest. Um so, personally, I have a fair bit of money in private lending that I'm lending out and I've um I felt really

good about it until recently. Um actually this morning in particular I was reading Ezekiel chapter 18 which appears to state that lending out interest especially to a brother in the faith is an abomination to God. Um and

there was um yeah I just wondering if is there a misunderstanding uh or or should we as Christians not be lending out interest?

>> Uh read that verse one more time slower

so that I can hear. I want to make sure I heard it correctly.

>> Sure. There's there's it's kind of a group of five verses if you'd like me to read. >> No, no, no, no. Sorry. We don't need a Bible study. I want to make sure I heard what you said. Did you say that there's a scripture verse or multiple times in Ezekiel it says to lend money to a Christian brother is an abomination? Did I hear that right?

>> Essentially, yes. >> Well, if you take the Bible as the literal word of God, and I think you probably do, then you don't need my opinion on it. I think there was not a lot of air in that sentence. uh if it's an abomination, you know, again, I'm not a theologian and I'm also not going to ever publicly interpret scripture. Uh but you know,

Dave quotes scripture all the time with the borrower slave, the borrower is slave to the lender. You've got a pretty strong statement in Ezekiel about an abomination. So, what do you think?

>> Well, and see, that's the thing is is I have my opinions which I can read out.

There's there's some nuances to it. Um I was more curious if you guys have ever been posed that question before. I I've searched up Dave Ramsey um in relation to this question. I can't see him saying anything publicly on it. I can't actually see anyone saying anything publicly on it. >> Well, actually I just addressed that.

>> Yeah, Dave Dave speaks to it. We all do.

And here's the deal. I don't loan money to friends. >> Yeah, we always tell people never to do it. But you framed it. So I want to go back. You framed it. you said as a Christian and you're coming at us with that and you you cited scripture.

>> Yeah. >> And so this is one of the situations where you answered your own question in my opinion. That's what I'm getting at.

Like you said, as a Christian, what should I do? And you said, well, here's what scripture says. So I think you answered your own question. So your opinion is not what you asked. But to

John's point, we always tell people never lend any money to anybody.

>> Yeah. If you want to help your friends out, help them out. If you want to help your family out, help them out.

>> Okay.

I I was wondering at a a Christian from a Christian values perspective, should a Christian lend money? Let's say he doesn't know the man. Let's say he doesn't know the woman, whoever whomever it is to whom he's lending. Um and and

uh if you guys have never looked into this, that's that's totally fine. >> No, no, we have you don't have us on a technicality. So, I'll say this one more time. Scripture says the borrower is slave to the lender. And then Ezekiel's got the Christian context between Christians. But then there's the other thing which is should you ever put someone at your service, put them in financial slavery. I think we all know the answer to that. But will we also know that I think you think it's okay.

And and and I do know this about humans.

They're going to do what they want to do. But you called us and you answered

your own question on the first one and John answered your caveat. So, thanks

for listening. Josh is up next.

Harrisburg is where he is. Josh, how can we help?

>> Hi, I just have a question about like a a job change kind of situation that I've got going on. >> You called the best guy in America, Ken Coleman, to answer that question. Oh jeez. >> When I when I heard him on the show, I I was like, man, that's perfect. Well, geez, the pressure right now is unbearable, but I'll do what I can.

What's going on?

>> Um, so I currently work as a mechanic at

a local shop. Um, the money is not bad.

The people I work for are absolutely fantastic and it's a guaranteed job.

>> Okay. How much money? >> Really? What my situation? >> What do you make? >> Uh, they pay me 22 an hour.

>> Okay. 22 an hour and we like the people.

What's the other one?

>> Um, so my other one, I have two other options. There is another local shop um that is offering 25 an hour, but it would be less hours per week. Um I currently work 50, they work 40. And then my third one is uh in the maintenance department of a big corporation um where they would start at 22 and then after about 3 months move to uh upwards of 27.

>> Okay. Which way are you leaning? And let's let's so we're on the same page.

One is number one is um where you are 22

an hour and you really like the people.

Two is 25 an hour but less hours. Three

is big corporate with more money. Which one are you leaning to before you called?

>> Uh the the bigger place just because room for advancement the other the second local shop that is offering me this job like I feel like I'm I would be in the same situation I am now where there's not a lot of room for advancement and I I'm going to plateau.

Number three with an asterk is my vote.

I want John to weigh in too. Uh number three with the asterk for me is I want to do some homework. I want to see what customer reviews are of this place and and since it's big corporate, they'll be online. I want to ask around who has worked there.

Do I know anybody that's ever had their job I mean their car serviced there? How do they treat customers? Because how they treat their customers is how they're going to treat the people that work for them. So, let's just make sure that it's not this awful environment.

And if it's not an awful environment and they treat people with a modicum of respect and they got a good reputation, yeah, I go 27 an hour with room to grow. That would be for me.

>> I I just I have a unhealthy

built-in bias,

which is I want to add value to a

smaller company that I trust. The Let me put it this way. Let me take I I have a bias against people running to corporate because it feels safe, especially initially. It also is can get very unsafe real fast if Q4 numbers aren't going to make it and they got to lay off half the the the department in whatever

department they need to pick to make their final number for the year. >> Can always go back to the local place.

>> That That's true. That's true. I I >> But what's your vote? One, two, or three? I think I know. I think I hear you saying number one stay.

>> My My vote is go where you trust the leadership. Period.

>> Right. And and my kind of second question to that is um the applications for the starter like three-month apprenticeship type deal at the corporate place don't come out for another month or so. And I just got an email from uh shop number two where it's

like hey can can we call you about this?

And I just I want to know like especially and like it's not guaranteed like and

you know I have two basically guaranteed options. I'm just not I want to know

exactly what what like a wise >> Hold on. Nothing's guaranteed. >> Nothing is. But let's back out of this for a second. You're you're desperately scared that you're going to make the wrong choice. I want to flip the whole situation around on you.

>> You have three offers and one of those came today. They're trying to get they're knocking on their door to get you. If you pick wrong, you walk into a situation that you feel good about and it's it sucks. trust me.

>> Put your name back out on the market and you'll get picked up the following week.

You're too talented. >> You're in a good industry. People need good mechanics. And that's why again, uh

I appreciate John's point of view, but I want you to have upward mobility. Um we humans crave progress.

>> Yeah. >> And sometimes we just crave the opportunity for progress. And I and and

again, uh that's why I'm taking the corporate thing. Um, I think it I think it positions you well for something else. And that's the question we don't have time to get to, but I'm going to challenge you with this. Where do you want to be 15, 20 years from now with this mechanical skill? And does the corporate job position you to get there?

I think you got to look at everything, but don't overthink it. You know what I mean? Young guy, uh, I'm going to take the money as long as I'm not treated, you know, like a jerk. Hey, remember this, folks. There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 91. Income Isn’t the Problem—Your Money Plan Is | April 9, 2026


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Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, my daughter is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Brad is in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi Brad, how are you? I'm doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, you know, I've just um been kind of struggling lately. You know, I I make pretty decent money, made about 92K last year, but you know, I'm still kind of catching myself living paycheck to paycheck with very minimal savings. So, I'm just trying to see, you know, what's a good budgeting tool, you know, to really get me up there, um you know, so I can feel more comfortable about my finances.

Uh Brad, do you How much consumer debt do you have? Um I'd say I'm about 20K in debt. What kind of debt is it?

Um uh right now it's a finance loan for

a car, um about 2K for a personal loan, and then

the rest is just, you know, odd ends, um about 5K, 5-6K in credit cards. Mhm.

Okay. Are you using the credit cards to to stay afloat, or is this things beyond just needs that you're using the credit card for? I mean, I've I feel like, you know, every time I make a credit card payment, something comes up to where I have to use it again. So, I'm not really bringing that balance down. Um constantly uh No, I am not. Um

I've been in a relationship for about 7 months now, and uh just found out a few weeks ago that my girlfriend is pregnant, and this will be her first kid and my second child.

Um, I already have a 1 and 1/2 year old son.

Okay.

Well, there's a couple of things kind of going through my head, Brad. Um, number one is that there is a chance it's a lot of disorganization and you're living from crisis to crisis. And when that happens, there's an urgency that's created that you end up actually not only making bad financial decisions, but you end up spending more money when that's your mindset. Versus having a plan in place, knowing exactly where every single dollar is going, and cutting up the credit card, that's not your safety net anymore.

And kind of getting around, um, again, this idea that you're digging yourself into a hole while you're trying to get out of debt. And so, so what I would say to you is, number one, I think that the budget's going to be key for you, and before we get off the line, Christian can pick up and we can get you a year of EveryDollar.

out and say, "Okay, here's what I'm bringing home every single month, and here is where this is going." And you're going to start to see some some glaring habits about where the money has been going, and you're going to start to see, "Well, I can't I can't be spending like I've been spending." So, you're going to feel a pull back from lifestyle, but what that's going to give you then is cash and margin to be able to build up some savings, and then start working your way out of debt. But, it's really this this process that you have to go through because if you stay in this cycle, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting.

And so, breaking out of it is big, but in your case, the the level of chaos, I think having something grounded in facts in front of you, a plan that's doesn't have feelings that you can go and stick to is going to be really important.

Okay. I am 30. I turn 31 this month.

>> Okay. Let's pretend that I hired you for $90,000 a year, and your job

was to make this guy, Brad's, money behave.

Mhm. If you don't do your job, I'm going to fire you.

What would you do? You would write down every one of those dollars and tell it what to do, and you would make those dollars behave.

Mhm. >> Right now, they're just kind of running loose and running amok. They're all over the place. And so, when you use the EveryDollar budgeting app, which we're going to hook you up with, you're going to give every one of those dollars a name before the month begins an assignment, and then you're by God going to stick to it.

When you do this, the first time you write it all out, you're going to go, "Where is I've been spending all this money?" You're going to feel like you got a raise. Right.

And um you know, and as quickly as possible and as reasonable, make the decision if we're going to be a family or not.

And um and and cuz that weaves into this greatly. So, if we're going to be a family, that means we're getting married. That's what a family is.

And so, if that's if that's where this is going, y'all need to make that decision, and then you need to weave that into your overall plan.

That, you know, we've got we now have a a human to raise.

You've got two.

But uh now we have this baby that we are

responsible for, and so we can't be going to happy hour.

We've got to clean up this debt. We've got to have money for >> She for sure can't. formula and well, formula and and baby diapers. I mean, here we go. >> She's pregnant, yeah. Yeah, for sure.

That's right. Jamie's in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Jamie. How are you? I'm I'm all right. I've been doing better. Uh-oh. What's up?

So, I woke up this morning and decided that my husband is not doing anything but keeping me poor because he blows his whole check, and mine is expected to pay for everything else. So, what I'm trying to figure out is if it's worth staying in the house I'm in now and paying 750 or moving to a

friend's house that he owns and paying 500 a month for a two-bedroom for like a year or so I can get my debt paid down and my life together. $250 a month is not your problem, is it?

No, my problem is that I've been doing this for 10 years. Mhm.

>> And it's just been me. And I pay I have So, me and him have five kids together and I have five older kids that live with their dad because when I left he kept them and wouldn't let me have them. But we have a good I still see them and have them every other weekend, but I pay $1,000 a month in child support before I even get paid.

>> What do you make?

$24.61 an hour, so about probably like >> What's he make?

$14.42.

An hour?

Yeah, because he won't keep a job.

I reckon not. He's got the worst job on the planet. I mean, crap, Target's paying 20 bucks an hour. Um >> Yeah, he won't he won't keep a job and I'm just I woke up this morning and it was like a light switch hit and I'm just tired of being tired. Yeah. Well, I mean, you opened the call with he's not pulling his weight and then you instantly change to do I move to a $250

cheaper house. $250 is not your problem.

You two getting on the same page and you two accelerating in your careers is your problem.

No, well, yeah, but well, see, I'm on track to finish the year making 28 an hour. Okay. >> job now. >> Yeah, but he's not and and so you getting on track with him is like 90% of

your problem, not your rent.

No, I know, but he The problem is he won't get on track.

I've been trying for 10 years. Well, that's a marriage problem. That's a marriage problem, but what I'm telling you is $250 a month moving to the cheaper house doesn't solve your problem because it's not high rent is not your problem.

A husband that you're not working with and you're not aligned with is your problem. So, let's solve the real problem. Let's not go jumping around, "Oh, I'm going to move to a cheaper house." and act like that fixed something. It doesn't fix anything, though. >> like it feels like you're doing something, though, Jamie. So, I get why you're like >> avoiding the actual issue.

>> Yes. You're grasping at the wrong thing.

And the hard thing is you can't control him. You can control, you know, saving $250. That probably feels good, but the real problem is something you you can't control, which is him. And so, there's some big decisions that you guys are going to have to make of what your life is going to look like going forward. And this may be really >> what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting in the marriage, in the careers, and the money. And so, change all of it.

Change the careers, change the money, or start working together and change the marriage issue. And that's how you the definition of starting to win. The things that are broken have to be fixed, and it's not your rent.

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Natalie is in Oklahoma City. Hi Natalie, how are you?

Hello, I'm doing fine. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I I just got married on this Saturday. And um me and my partner had discussed being debt-free and paying all of our debts.

And then once we got married and we had our first real discussion yesterday, he claimed that he's not letting go of the credit cards because he doesn't see them as debt.

Which I tried to explain to him and he said, "I'm not giving them up." But in his eyes, he doesn't see it like that.

How long did you all date before you were married?

Um we got married a year like in within

a year.

Did you guys talk to Sorry, we did it for a year and then we got married.

Like the 12 the 12 month. Okay.

So, this was a conversation you guys had. What was it yesterday?

Yeah, I I let him know that um

if we got married, you know, cuz we talked about marriage to our olders. I'm 33, he's 31.

But 12 month we got married and we would combine all you know, follow Dave's Ramsey, combine our finances until we were married and then start paying off debt.

So, yesterday I said, we should start paying off his credit cards and then start on your on your vehicle.

Mhm. >> And he's just like, that's that's fine.

I'm like, but you got to promise me not to use them again.

And he said, no, I'm I'm going to cuz he doesn't see them as debt.

And I tried to explain to him about Yeah, I think >> how Yeah, more of the Sorry. Oh, go ahead.

Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, I was going to say more of the frustration is that he didn't keep his word. You know, what do you mean? That you guys had agreed on something and now he's changing his mind,

essentially. Which which frustrated me because he doesn't see them as debt. You know, like anytime you owe anybody anything, it's considered debt.

Those two, three hundred dollar payments you're making towards the car you can put in our savings.

And he's like, well, it's for an emergency and this and that.

And so, I don't I'm trying to work the baby steps with my partner. Now, I don't have debt other than my mortgage. I'm kind of nervous combining our incomes together if he's like you know, the program. Mhm.

Cuz I worked really hard to get out of debt and I like to buy my home. Yeah, so what bothers me about this whole thing is not the detailed issue of whether he thinks credit cards are debt or not. I mean, that's just stupid. But, um but the thing that bothers me is that you've married a guy that doesn't give a crap about your opinion

and can't keep his word.

And that level of disrespect and dishonesty is going to be way all beyond money

issues. It's going to come up in other places, too. You know, and uh well, I just stopped by on the way home from the office had one beer. I Well, you told me you were coming straight home for dinner.

Oh, well, I just one beer.

You know, I do whatever the heck I want to do cuz I'm me.

That's what this guy is and uh

By the way, there's nothing wrong with stopping by and having a beer if you want, but don't do that and tell your wife you weren't after you told your wife you weren't going to. And that's this guy. So, that That's my problem here is is the underlying lack of character uh and the underlying lack of respect for his new wife. Instead of treasuring you and wanting to serve you and love you and be there for you, he's all about

well, this is what I want to do.

Yeah, and you said >> 14 years old.

Yeah, cuz it's on his credit and his Yeah, no, it's not his. Now, it's ours.

We got married Saturday, so now you're screwed up. Everything he screws up screws you up.

For the rest of your life as long as you're married, that's what's going to happen. So, I mean, I I think the core issue is is that the that you guys have a a really weak relationship.

That's what's bothering me a whole lot more than just whether or not credit card is debt or not. That's just a stupid statement. But, the way he's a coming at this is like I told you I was going to do one thing, but I changed my mind. I don't care what you think. This is what I want to do and I don't like that. I don't care. It's what I want to do. And you know, his uh the way he's treating you is what's bothering me.

So, I don't want you to accept that. I want you to create a relationship crisis

and call for marriage counseling immediately and see if you need to have this annulled or not.

Um cuz if the guy can't keep his word and he can't treasure you and honor you, you're going to have a long life, girl.

This is not a good This is not a good start. So, uh I mean I I'm going to create a say I'm going to go see a marriage counselor because the guy I married promised me one thing and now I'm there's some other guy showed up here in my bed. Mhm.

And you know and so I'm going to I'm going to create a crisis in this situation cuz he thinks this is all okay that it's okay he does this. But he's 33 and he's been doing it a long time.

Yeah, and then He's been a single dog a long time cuz he do whatever he wants to. Nobody Nobody around he had to consider up until a year ago.

Yeah, and until Saturday when y'all get married. So, yeah the the

urgency of this Natalie is I mean I would I would I would bring in a third party as soon as possible because if you let this linger you guys will continue to create division in a new marriage that will continue on that way for a long time. And so if you can get this straightened out, at least

get on the same page of value systems and goals together working together, right? Like the big stuff. Um and then you can start doing the the tactical things of like does he keep a credit card or not? But like the the big idea of hey, we are one together and we

are going to create a financial life that we both feel good about. Yeah.

>> Yeah, and that that's and that's what's broken and that's like at the core of your marriage.

Not that money's at the core of your marriage, but you're not agreeing about life.

And you've been married 3 days. Hello.

>> It's supposed to be the honeymoon phase.

Man, all right Natalie. >> you got some Y'all got some work. But I'm I'm I'm hopeful for y'all. I really am.

>> Well, it's Some things are going to have to change or I'm not.

So, I'm hopeful that you force the change into this situation.

Uh and I'm going to have some have some people experiencing some pain over there so that we don't live a lifetime of pain. Robert in Tucson, hi Robert, how are you?

Hey, good afternoon. Can you hear me all right? Yes, sir. What's up?

All right, uh first off, I just want to say thank you for taking my call. Um before I get into the finer details, my question is essentially if I have a good plan to prepare to exit the military in a few years.

Okay, when will you be leaving?

Uh about 2 years, call it uh summer of 2028. Okay. And what will you be doing?

What's your career going to be?

Uh so, I would like to pursue getting an MBA full-time utilizing the GI Bill.

That's not a career.

Okay, so um What are you What are you going to do for a living? What is it you want to do that's going to make you money and support you when the government's no longer writing you a check?

So, after school, I'm interested in either consulting or uh investment banking.

Okay. Do you And do you have you have an undergraduate in business?

I do, sir. Okay. So, what I would be suggesting is you get lined up a job or

a a career field that you want to enter.

And as you approach summer of '28, you line up a job that pays more than you make now and you do your MBA as an adult

MBA studying at night.

Okay. Um can I just give you some numbers to see if this is uh if that changes anything? It doesn't. You still got to go make a living. What are your numbers, Robert? What is it? Um so, I'm 26 years old. I'm single.

I have no kids and I also have no debt.

Um right now, I'm making about 7,800 a month. Um my current net worth My current net worth consists of about 60 grand in my TSP. Good for you. >> Um about 200 about 285 grand and a taxable brokerage,

Um about 2 and 1/2 grand in a Roth IRA I recently opened. Excellent.

>> 4 grand in cash. Okay, great.

>> So, I mean, that's part of the reason why I'm emphasizing like going full-time cuz I've spoken to other veterans in my situation. They say that's a full-time program. It's It's not a full-time program. >> An MBA at adult MBA at night is just as good and you can get through it and there's no reason for you to sit on that savings and burn it up just so you can be a student full-time. It's not a good plan.

I would go get a job. That's what I would do.

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Kendall is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Kendall. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

So, I have a question. I have a mortgage that we got 2 years ago. We

moved into our home. We can It was newly constructed.

It went from a construction loan into a 10-year balloon. Oh, no.

I know. Uh the 7.5% and so, I'm actually about

to start nurse practitioner school this summer and so, we're looking at going ahead and refinancing now um while the rates are lower and we have a couple of different options that have been presented to us and my husband and I are kind of having a disagreement. So, um we have gone through

the Financial Peace University, but it was a few years ago.

And so, I know the answer is 30-year fixed. No, 15-year fixed.

Well, 15-year fixed, yes. But we haven't been given that option. So far, the only option we have is um either a 5.25% 5-year arm or a 6.5% 30-year

>> 15-year is 5.22 right now.

So, we haven't gotten anybody to give us

that. >> Why? I don't I don't know why because our credit is is really good.

>> Mortgage.

Churchill Mortgage, okay. >> the people we've endorsed for 30 years and they do it. They do 15-year fixed for Ramsey listeners every day.

Certainly in Oklahoma City they do them for sure. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, yeah, we'll we'll do that then because that's that's what we're He's really leaning towards the 5.25% arm and I'm like >> No.

that does not sound good to me because >> go from We're going out of the jumping out of the fire into the frying pan of the frying pan into the fire. I mean, it's like one dumb one dumb loan into another dumb loan. No, an adjustable rate's going to tag you later.

I'm I'm looking at the screen right here where the rates are and it says 5.22 right now this week.

So >> This week, okay. Yeah, and so um yeah, that's what Now, obviously a 15-year payment is going to be more than your 30-year payment that that that that balloon is based on.

Right. >> But it's not going to be that much more cuz you're saving 2% by refinancing. Yeah, it's going to be a little bit different. Yeah. Yeah, so what is your uh what's your balance or the payoff?

So, right now it's still at 229,000

as of our latest. Okay, so it's like 4,500, let's call it 4,800, which is

$400 a month in interest savings

by refinancing from 7.2 to 5.2, okay?

And so um you know, roughly $400 a

month, not quite, but almost, $400 a month that that your interest rate goes down, but then when you switch to a 15-year it's going to go up and so you're probably going to see an increase of a hundred or two hundred dollars a month, but you're going to be in a much better long-term plan.

Right.

And and with you going to You You you're going to nursing school?

Uh yeah, nurse practitioner. Yeah.

>> Oh, really? Okay, that's awesome.

Good for you. >> Yeah. Thank you. I'm excited, but it's definitely the second half of the

uh program I will have to go part-time.

So, right now we make about equal, but when I go part-time it'll >> What's your household income?

So, right now um we're making about Let's see, I make

about 4,400, he makes about um probably close to about $4,000 a month for him. So, we we make >> about 150 a year, roughly. Okay. Yeah, about 150 a year. >> Yeah, and then when you graduate it's going to go way up, huh? Yeah. So, way

to go. I love it. Congratulations. Yes, it's worth it to bite the bullet and put a little strain on right now to get the right kind of mortgage in place and get rid of the high interest rate and the balloon, but don't jump from the frying pan into the fire.

Yeah, and make sure you guys are planning out, Kendall, when you go part-time that you guys have money saved that if you need to, whether it's shifting lifestyle or have some money that's supplementing during that year or two that you have where you have to go part-time. So, just Now, plan that out.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, good good question. Way to go. Well, you win the argument and Churchill Mortgage can help you guys with that process, I promise you. Jeremy's in Kansas City. Hi, Jeremy. How are you?

Hey, not too bad. Good. How can we help?

I need some advice on how to build some

funds while in steps four, five, and six.

Okay, what are the funds for?

Uh well, we've got I'm I need to set aside money for a

truck replacement or truck repairs in the future. I just replaced the truck, so a lot of that has been wiped out and

I need to rebuild that fund.

Uh we also need some house repairs, like painting the outside of the house, replacing some carpet. Mhm. Um I would like to have some retained earnings with my business. And how do I do all of that while also

um putting money in retirement and extra

money towards the house. I'm trying to do a lot of different stuff and I'm not sure how to break it all up. Okay. Well, start with we'll go with baby steps of four, five, and six, which is where you are. You don't have any debt except the house, right?

Correct. >> Good. Okay. So, we're going to do 15% of your income into retirement and something extra on the house.

I don't know how much depending on where all of these other things fall. When you start doing a detailed written plan, and

we suggest using the EveryDollar app cuz that will help you do it the easiest, it has built into it the ability for you to have categories where you're setting money aside for upcoming expenses. And

so, you set money aside for upcoming home repairs. You set money aside for an upcoming replacement of a truck.

However, I kind of think the way I heard this, the truck might be your business.

Right. Is this like you drive truck for a living?

Well, I own a lawn care company. Oh, okay. Okay.

But, the truck itself is not your daily driver. It's what you use to pull the lawn mowers around.

Yeah, well, that's pretty much the only time I leave the house is to do lawn care and then if we go anywheres else, we usually take my wife's car. >> Yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, the thing the thing is that I mean, the work truck could easily be coming out of your work budget and your work retained earnings should be at the office, separate issue.

So, out of your profits, you set some aside for retained earnings and that could be for equipment replacement of all kinds, mowers, weed eaters, whatever down at the office, so to speak.

And that's separate from your home budget.

And then when you make a profit after having retained earnings and after having paid your taxes, you bring that money home and put that money once a month is fine into your into your checking account.

And then on your personal, you would begin to set aside sinking funds. And Rachel, the EveryDollar app does a good job with the sinking funds, right? It does. It's not my favorite function, honestly, cuz we have a function called goals in the EveryDollar and I like the goals better cuz it gives you an end date, so you can look Jeremy and say, "Okay, we want to have X amounts saved for home

repairs cuz cuz we want to do some, you know, different things around the house.

And we want to have that by December." And so that the goals part of EveryDollar, that function, I like better than like the sinking funds function, personally, because it gives you that end date and it calculates out how much you need to be saving per month and then it goes into that goals fund.

Which is in a sense a sinking fund.

Yeah, the sinking fund in EveryDollar, the way it's it's laid out for me, I I

just personally don't I don't like it as much. I like the goals category. Yeah, but it's the same idea. It's just like having an end date versus an ongoing fund. And so I like having an end date, so you guys um yep, kind of watch that

build up. So >> say, "Okay, I want $6,000 to do a home repair. That's right. >> And I want to do it in 1 year, that's 500 bucks a month.

>> That's right. And so in EveryDollar, it carries it each month over, so it's um And builds up. >> Yeah, it's very very very easy. So if you hold on the line, Jeremy, Christian will pick up and we'll get you a year of EveryDollar cuz you'll be able to like lay it out and actually see it.

And it's great. But if you have things that are ongoing, you can use the sinking funds um that function, but I love the goals in EveryDollar.

And guys, when you are going to win at anything, you have to do it very intentionally and you have to do it on paper before the month begins. So, even like when you're getting married, if you want to win at marriage, you need to do pre-marriage counseling and plan how to be married. You your probability of success goes way up. When you plan your money, your probability of success goes way up. When you plan your career, your probability of success goes way up.

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Sarah is in Greenville, South Hi Sarah, how are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I had a recent notice received

from the IRS for tax debt from a year when I was married to my former spouse. I was unaware of this tax debt cuz I thought it had been addressed. Um and I run a really tight budget and I have my debt snowball very

planned and I'm wondering if I pivot

from that to take care of this tax debt

uh because it had that notice of lien.

It hasn't been There has not been a lien yet and I realize that >> is it? It's $7,900.

What do you make?

I make 132. Okay.

And uh what year is this from?

2018. Okay, and you were obviously married then.

Mhm. And you filed married filing jointly? That year, yes. Okay. And um

you were not aware that the taxes were not paid?

That's correct. We had settled in 2020

and the equitable distribution required that he pay that um and

now he's incarcerated.

Um so I think that his payment plan has ceased and they're coming after me Mhm.

for it. Okay.

I'm not positive if this will work, but before you decide to pay it I want you to get in touch with one of our tax professionals at ramseysolutions.com that we endorse, the Ramsey trusted, and I want you to ask and I want you to tell them every detail of the situation and see if you qualify for a thing called the innocent spouse.

Okay? >> Okay. So an example would be uh and this

sounds like it qualifies, but I'm not

you know, without getting into every stinking detail, I'm not positive. And even if we did, I'm not sure I would know. But, the innocent spouse provision

of the regular of the IRS code sounds like this. Um a good example would be me, okay? My wife is a full-time mom.

I have a business, and we've do married filing jointly.

The number of minutes or hours she spends looking at our tax return is precisely 3 and 1/2 seconds.

Mhm. Okay?

So, she signs it and assumes that me and the tax people that we're using know what the flip we're doing, right?

Mhm. And then later on a tax bill comes up, and then she gets a notice in the mail like you did, okay? Mhm. Well, obviously she didn't have anything to do with it.

And so, she could file under the innocent spouse provision and say, "Yeah, we filed married filing jointly.

Yes, I did sign the return, but I have no working knowledge of that stupid business or that stupid man, okay? And

um so, I I I have I'm innocent of this tax bill, and they will take it off of you and send it to him." And of course, he's incarcerated, so they're not going to get paid, but that doesn't matter.

What matters is is it comes off of you.

I think you're going to qualify for that. Okay. Based on what you told me. You see what I'm You see why? Because this is the thing. A, he was supposed to take care of it. >> And B, it was a long Well, long ago, but but the circumstances were that you had no knowledge that the bills were not being taken care of properly, and you signed the return.

Correct. And that that's why I'm thinking you're going to qualify for this innocent spouse provision, which is an $8,000 switch in this conversation.

Mhm. So, that's the first thing I want you to do, cuz I'm I'm like 80 90% sure you're getting out of this.

Okay. Now, if you don't, let's go back to your question. If I'm wrong, okay?

Then what do we do with the 7900?

Uh we put it at the top of the list and we pay it off as soon as you can.

Okay, now my debt snowball It goes at the top of the debt snowball.

Okay. And you knock it out as fast as you possibly can or you go borrow $8,000 from the credit union and pay it off and then put that in the debt snowball. I don't care which.

But you get rid of the IRS. You do not want these people in your life. They have unlimited power, no brains, and they charge all kinds of penalties and

interest minute by minute by minute as you go along. >> Yeah, it's the one exception of the debt snowball, Sarah. We always say if there is IRS debt, it gets moved to the very front. Okay. Okay, that was my question. Uh and I or I would refinance it on a credit card or down to credit union, one of the two. Okay? You get it cleared up. But don't put it on an IRS payment plan unless you have no other options.

And then put it at the top of your debt snowball.

Okay. I'm sure hope I'm right about the other thing though, don't you?

I certainly do. I didn't know that existed. Um I do feel it was it was definitely out of a left field um cuz I've been doing quite well on my own with four kids, but that kind of threw me for a loop. Oh, it's so frustrating, Sarah. I'm sorry. So you're you make $130,000 a

year doing what? I am a uh regional asset manager.

What is he in jail for? Oh gosh.

Embezzlement. No way. That makes the

story even better about you being an innocent spouse.

It sure does. >> The embezzlement boy is in jail. I mean, wow.

Mhm. That's got like drama on it. That's so I'm so sorry y'all been through that.

And he's the father of your four kids?

Yes, sir. I'm so sorry. How old are you?

Um I'm 41. Man, you've been through some hell, but you are strong and you you are strong and you are smart. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Doing the best I know how to do it all to take care of these kids and and God is good and so we're just trying to make sure I honor him with the next right decision. You are you've been very very wise and very very wow. No, it's hard. That's amazing.

Amazing. Yeah, yeah, go go to our folk and they'll help you, I think. I'm pretty sure that's going to work.

Hey, you know, sometimes this free advice around here is valuable.

And save her 8,000 bucks. >> There you go. Glad she called in. Yeah.

Sending all the good vibes your way, Sarah. >> yeah.

All right, Jason's in New York. Hi Jason, what's up with you?

Hey Dave, how's it going, boss man?

Better than I deserve. What's up with you?

Uh I need your opinion, boss. Uh I'm dealing with a situation at work uh and I just wanted to see uh your expert opinion cuz I feel like I'm spinning my wheels.

Uh on paper, I have the dream job. Uh I

make $47 an hour. It's unlimited overtime. We have a pension, 401k,

benefits, health insurance, everything.

And every time I explain my situation to other people, they like, "Oh, you're a fool. I would never quit that job. I don't care what how they I don't care what happened. I'll never quit." But I'm being isolated at work.

I'm in a union environment and every time um I try to learn something new to progress because because of the union, I had to come to a department that I didn't really have a lot of experience in, which is dealing with the boilers in the powerhouse. Traditionally, my background comes from labor laboratory analytical environment.

So dealing with instrumentation in the lab clean room environments like centrifuging, incubators, blah blah blah. But because of the union, I had to come to this new environment where I'm dealing with boilers and I thought, "Okay, uh all of these old technicians been here for years. I'm not going to have any problems. They're going to pair me up with this guy and I'm going to be going around learning things. That never happened. My manager never did any of that. Yeah. They're trying to do as little work as possible. Yeah.

Okay. Well, here's the thing. >> recently >> Here's the thing. You need to be doing what you're designed to do, and it's not that. But you also can't do it that rationally because you're getting paid very well.

Yes, sir. It's It's pretty good. >> And so So, but I wouldn't use that as an excuse to stay stuck. But I would say, "Okay, what classes have I got to take on the side? What have I got to learn to

be able to move into a field that I love with people that are, you know, easier to work with, more fun to work with, and I'm learning, and I make $50 an hour?"

You know, and so what's the target? And and if it takes 3 years to work to that target, okay.

But yeah, if you just walk out and quit and and go make $20 an hour, no, that's not smart.

Um so I'm going to stay where I am and use it >> for an exit plan, I'm going to stay where I I stay where I am and use that wonderful income to fund my exit.

Yes, sir. That makes sense? So, what what what When you're doing working with lab stuff, if you were in a non-union environment, that sounds like something that would be paying in the $50 range to me.

Yes, sir, it would, and I would probably love it. I thought that this was job was going to be it. I thought I was going to retire here, but Mhm. Yeah, so I mean, could could you walk straight into that, or would you have to tool up to walk into that?

I could walk straight into it. I've had all sorts of >> if you got an offer of $50 an hour, quit and go take the $50. >> down because it was a The only reason I turned it down, Dave, because it was a contract assignment. It wasn't full-time.

>> Okay. Well, then you just hadn't found the one yet.

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them and they don't know what to do next. Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> These are the two options. You got to carry your dadgum family, man.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruze Ramsey, personality, number one best-selling author, my daughter is my co-host today.

Mike is in Madison, Wisconsin. Hey, Mike, how are you?

Hi Dave, thanks for taking my call.

Sure, what's up?

Hey, so um I've been listening to you for a couple of years. Um I'm just starting to get serious now about the baby steps. I'm on baby step number two right now and I want to get I want to get gazelle intense. I want to get my debt paid off. I want to get out of debt, but I don't I can't really do any side work right now and I can't really afford to make anything but bare minimum

payments. Um So my question is >> you do any side work?

Um I was in a motorcycle accident back in in September. Mhm. So any of the skills I have outside of my

normal um job, I'm not really capable of

of doing right now.

Are you able to do your job?

Yeah, so I I work in sales right now.

Um so I have I have a desk job which is no big deal. Mhm. Um but any of my skills outside of that I could use to make more money or more so like working on vehicles, doing yard wear yard work,

um handyman kind of stuff like that.

>> Mhm. Okay, so that's off the table, but lots of other side hustles. I mean, side hustles aren't all blue collar.

I'm I'm aware of that. I just don't know what else to what other side hustle I could take up other than Got you. What's So what's what's your question about?

Yeah, so I got a um I got a pretty decent size tax return this year. It's about $4,400 and I can start up my own side business basically off of that.

So I want to know if it's a smart idea to do that and get some extra income rolling in for doing that or if I should just take the $4,400 and pay down some more of the debt. What's the business?

Um the business would be like a a trailer rental business. Um so people

would kind of like a a glorified U-Haul essentially. You'd rent out a trailer for when people need it kind of.

No, I wouldn't do that.

Um I don't mind the idea of taking a little bit of the 4,400 and using it to get something started, but um but it's more let's just get your side hustle going as something that's white-collar. Um Uh but the problem is you could put this 4,400 into a trailer and it never rents one time.

That that's and that's very possible actually. So um you've got to consider all your downsides, uh all the possible negative scenarios, and if they don't work, then this idea doesn't work. So I- but if you had an idea that you said, "Okay, I'm going to take 400 bucks or 500 bucks of the 4,400 and I'm going to get something going that I'm going to immediately the first month I'm going to make 500 back or I'm going to make 1,000 back um immediately and worst case is I burn the 500, well, that that's you know, we could try that, but uh this is a lot.

I I've been I've been listening to your show a lot and I've heard you say that a bunch, so I was curious what you were going to say when I said I got that big of a tax return. So I didn't No, you aren't. You knew what I was going to say. You knew you needed to adjust your W-4 so that I'm not your W-2, your W-4 so that um you know, >> Mike, how much debt do you have?

Um I have 12,000 in one car. Um I have

7,000 in another car.

Um You married? >> 35.

What's that? Are you married?

Yes, I'm married. Oh, what does she make? Uh she makes about a thousand dollars a month. She's our our church secretary.

Do you guys have kids?

No, no kids.

I wonder if she could be doing something for more than a thousand bucks a month.

How many hours does she work?

Um right now she just bumped her hours up to about I think it's going to be 32 a week. Okay, this is an absolutely horrendous job.

It's a sweet job. We do love church secretaries. We love church secretaries, but we shouldn't be We shouldn't be abusing them by underpaying them.

So, um no, she needs to go get a job where she makes three times that immediately.

What do you make? Okay.

Um I make 77 a year. Okay. And and in

sales, and that's a That's your base or

Um I am I am straight salary. I don't make commission. Oh, in sales?

Correct, yes. Okay. All right. How long you been selling?

Um I've I've been in sales for probably

uh since I just got out of high school, and I've been with this company for about a year. Are you good at it?

Yeah, I think I think so. Well, I wonder if there's a job opportunity cuz when you're commission-based Yeah, selling something else, selling something else on the side that's not competitive.

Selling is selling.

And I mean, if there's a um someone you could work for on the weekends selling um and it's a product or a service that you're excited about and that you think is valuable, um you know, you you could

probably make as much as you're making now on your side hustle if you got into something that was sweet. And and you again, that you believe in and it's a high-quality product, a good value, and you know, you can make the calls on the weekends or evenings, man, you can run your income way up as a side hustle.

That's what I would do instead of buying a trailer, putting in the yard, and hope somebody rents it.

That definitely would go do that.

>> Yeah. And really, she's being very underpaid. >> severely underpaid. We said she just bumped up her hours to 32, so she may have just been doing 20.

Still severely underpaid.

>> that's true. $24,000 a year, nobody dancing in the streets. I'm just saying.

So, um you know, that if she if she was >> True. if she's making $2,000 a month cuz she's working half-time, uh the equivalent of you know, then that's still still not >> Yep. And uh I would >> And admin skills, see if there's like a dentist office or something, you know, and you could go and do some admin, or you know, whatever. Just something creative with those skills uh that yeah, easily could be making double.

>> Yeah, we we have assistants and admins and people all through the building, and we don't have anyone making anywhere near >> Mhm. that low an income. Yeah.

Um we wouldn't be able to attract anybody what if we did. So, yeah, I think that's where I would go. Wow. Wow.

Riley is in Maryland. Hi, Riley. How are you?

Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, my husband and I are expecting our first baby. Yay!

Uh we're very excited. Um I am really

anxious to um get to baby step six.

Good. Um I So, technically we're in baby step two. We have a $10,000 car loan um

that's Russell alone. Mhm. Um and we do

have that in our savings. We actually have about 43,000 in our savings.

>> Good. Plus um 19,000 in a CD. Mhm. And do you have any debt other than the car?

No, that's uh no credit card debt and no >> wrong with paying it off today?

Um I would feel I feel like I remember hearing you say before that >> When you're pregnant and you're broke, but you're not broke. You have $70,000.

Okay. And if you pay off 10,000, you'll have 60,000.

Yeah. I think you're okay. then you're going to go on to baby step four tomorrow cuz your baby step three is done. Yeah, absolutely.

>> Yeah, y'all are doing great. Yeah, you need to have baby step three covered if you're in stork mode, which is where you are. But you're there. I mean, you you write a check, you're debt free, allocate the rest of the some of the rest of this money for your emergency fund, and then you've got some left over even.

>> Yeah, we do say when you are expecting and on baby step two to pause everything and stalk file money because that's what we assume you only have baby step one done and you just have a thousand dollars, which you want more of that, more money when you're having a baby, but you guys have plenty of savings, so you're good.

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West Palm Beach, Florida. Hey Josh, what's up?

Hey, how are you, Dave? Thanks for having me on. Sure. How can we help?

>> Um so so I recently went I'm a lawyer

and I recently went on my own professionally. Uh I'm 30 years old. And

uh during that time, uh you know, I was exploring kind of other things cuz I had a little bit of down time. And I uh applied to be on a

popular political debate show on YouTube. And I didn't think I would actually be asked to go on it, but then I was. Uh and then realizing that I still have a lot to learn professionally, I

you know, was speaking to somebody and they are basically now I've done three rounds of interviews to get a job at this other law firm. And now and they're both happening at the same time and I'm kind of concerned that if I go and I do

this political debate show, that they will not want to hire me or retract an offer or something because you know, I say something that they disagree with. So, I was wondering Do you want to work with someone that has a different value system than you?

Well, no.

I mean, if they if they withdraw the offer because they disagree with you, they have a different value system than you. Yeah, that's true. Um but I guess really

the reason that I called is because, you know, we're uh expecting our first child and you know, I want to have a regular income. You know what I mean? So it's feels like, you know, should I you know, if if I agree with some of their values but not other their values, do you know what I mean? And so it's just kind of like I'm Yeah.

A little bit worried about >> Yeah. No, I mean if Let me just give you an example, okay? Let's just make up an example.

everything in the Biden administration and you're you're left-leaning

or a progressive or whatever we want to label that and you take that position on the debate.

And somebody says, "Oh, I wouldn't ever hire anybody because I that does that cuz I'm a pro-Trump guy." Um you don't want to work there anyway. You'd be miserable.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that you're right. And don't worry, that's not what I'd be saying. So Well, I don't care. I don't care. It works It works both ways, right? It works both ways. And so Or Or

I'll say this though is that to have

an employer I mean, I guess if it was I guess something that you would disagree with cuz I'm like, I know our team, we have a thousand people and we all don't We're not all on the same political spectrum.

I mean, there's people that vote all different ways here.

Um and so we would never fire someone for that. >> Oh lord, thank Yes. Yes. No, we would not fire someone

for their political And we would not We would not not hire you because we saw a

YouTube thing. >> but I also Josh would not I don't know if if it's that big of a gamble cuz I don't know from a from a law perspective. I don't know what that entails in that career. I wouldn't put my career in jeopardy though in general,

right? For a YouTube show. Yeah, for real. So there's a part of me that I'm like That's a good That's a good point, too. But but uh you know, so no I I I'm From like a legal perspective, I don't know what you would >> No, I don't think I'm not worried about the law. It's a matter of, you know, but here's the thing. If you have someone that you ascertain is so extreme on one

side or the other that they will not entertain someone that thinks differently than them, and they don't want to You don't want to work there anyway. >> That's right. >> Okay. Right. >> And so, I mean, we laugh and say, you know, Rachel and I graduated from Tennessee, and you know, we laugh and say we've accidentally hired a few Alabama fans.

You know, I mean, so but you know, I mean, but but we Oh, wait a minute.

There's Bobby. He's got his Alabama hat right there in the booth right now. And so, you know, we we hired him anyway.

He's been here like got a decade or more. We just now discovered he's an Alabama guy. No, I mean, really. But that's the That's the thing. So, that that's the kind of thing That's the way we think about it around here is we just we we

we're not going to all get in a big fight, and we're not going to all spend our lives being mad about that.

But but but And so, I don't want to work for a firm lawyer or otherwise that feels that way.

On the other hand, aside from that, I

also don't know what the upside is.

What is gained by going on this? There's more There's all downside and no upside.

What is it you get for doing it? Are they giving you $200,000 to appear? No.

Um you know, and you're putting a digital tattoo Mhm. out into the world

that you're going to have to live with. >> And we know how that feels.

That's our job. Yeah, we we put a digital tattoo out every day.

>> No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. >> Yeah. No, I mean, it's uh But but But something that polarizing in today's world, I'm like, "Eh, I don't know." Just not Yeah, not worth it.

Not worth it. You know, I mean, like for instance, during the presidential election, we reached out to Kamala Harris's camp and offered to interview her. And we also reached out to President Trump's camp and offered to interview him. She declined and he took us up on it and we did the Trump interview.

I and I endorsed Trump, but I I but he's not Jesus. I don't worship at his feet.

which also upsets the Trumpers. So you

know, I mean it's Cali, some of you people really need to slow down notch.

But the but that that's kind of where who I would want to be around in other words.

And so somebody that's willing to listen to both sides, kind of curious and I like debates and that kind of stuff. But really it's got nothing to do with your career. That had to do with my career.

It had to do with what the Ramsey brand and what we're doing here and you know, this is what we do for a living. But what you're doing for a living is law.

And doing this has nothing to do with that. So there's no upside. So probably wouldn't do it for that reason.

So Yeah, there's no no upside. You know, I remember the first time I heard something like that, Rachel, that that line of thinking that um uh decision-making paradigm, I was in a sales class. I was 18 years old. And now

this is 1978.

>> Oh, take us back, Dave. >> Okay. Now I mean it's a different world.

There were there were not non-smoking

sections. >> Oh, yeah. There was just not non-smoking.

Every restaurant you could smoke in.

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. >> Every airplane >> the '90s, though. >> Every plane, every airplane you could smoke in, okay? So smoking was like

today nobody does smoke. I mean this is unusual to see somebody with a cigarette today. But in those days everybody smelled like cigarette smoke. You know, and so but that guy in that sales thing, he said, "Okay, how many of you smoke?" And most people raised their hands. I didn't smoke. I don't I never have, but not mad about it. I just never did. And

he said, "How many people smoke?" And a bunch of people raised hand. He goes, "How many people in here think you've made a sale because you smoked?" No one

raised their hand. He said, "How many of you think you might have lost a sale because you smoked?" Bunch of people raised their hand. And that's that's a valid thing. >> Because someone that doesn't smoke doesn't want to be around them.

>> mean so there's the point is there's no there's only downside, there's no upside. Yeah. Same thing here. You know, what are you going to what good is going to come of this other than you get to voice your opinion and have the thrill and the fun of it?

I mean Cuz they have have a moment of kind of a an ego thing of like, "Oh, that's cool. They asked me to be on this panel and" Yeah. Yeah. So it's I I probably would pass, but for a different reason.

>> have a new baby coming, Josh, too. You know what I mean? So I'm like, just enjoy your life. Yeah.

Um I know I was watching the >> I would not uh turn down the debate because of future employment, though.

I would turn it down because I don't know if there's I don't see any >> an upside, yeah. That's I don't see any upside. That's fair. That's why I would turn it down. And I'm tying back to what you said a minute ago. That's how I got on that. >> Yep. Um Side note, did you watch Did you all watch the JFK love story?

No. Oh, the series. Anyways, based in the '90s, obviously, cuz JFK Jr. That's about when he died. Mhm. Anyways, they are smoking all through that series.

But I remembered I was like, it's so '90s. Like, you know, as Really? Okay.

>> Yes. Yes. No, I remember when they had no smoking sections, which I always thought was funny. Yes.

>> Like the smoke couldn't jump across the section. >> smoking in the restaurants and stuff and I was like, It's like you can't It's the same stupid thing as like you couldn't go down the aisle in the grocery store because a little COVID might jump on you. It was the same thing. It's the same dumb thing.

It's like It's It's It's in the air. The smoke is in the air. It's going over the whole restaurant. >> break.

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Samantha in Wisconsin. She said, "My husband has two daughters and I have two sons from previous marriages. We married later in life when our kids were already adults.

How do we structure our wills to make sure that the living spouse is taken care of first, but the children still get their fair share when the spouse passes? We want to ensure that our kids are left with their share of each parent's estate, but we also don't want the surviving spouse to lose any assets.

Would getting a life insurance policy for the value of 50% of assets be a good option to leave the leave to our individual children so that both sides get a fair inheritance?

Oh.

I would not do life insurance. >> No. No. What what you can do is pretty simple. Um and you need to sit down with an estate planning attorney and and you got to map out the numbers as much as the concept.

But often what we see people do in this situation is the money is left in a trust.

The terms of the trust are that the

surviving spouse gets to live out of

and use the trust.

Upon death, the trust is split into the two trusts um or you could have two trusts at death either one and and both of them are designed to support the surviving spouse and then upon death of that spouse then

each of the your two kids get theirs, your two yours, his two kids will get his and so forth. So, you can just and it if it's in a trust it can't go anywhere. So

if um in a worst case scenario, so let's just say okay, you you've you've amassed between the two of you a million dollars in a 401k.

Okay, and you die. That money's left into a trust and the money um

and your wife is left behind.

She gets the benefit of that trust as long as she's alive. And so she gets the income off of it and she's allowed to use the money under certain circumstances other than just the income, medical event or something like that. And the house could go into a trust and go into the same trust.

Everything could go into that same trust and she gets to use all of that while she's alive. So if that million dollars creates a you know, a hundred thousand dollar a year income, she gets to use all that and she could use some of the million if under certain circumstances that you decide in the trust. But she can't just uh change and decide I'm

going to leave the whole million to my kids and cut out your kids.

>> could she use all the million and there's nothing left for the kids? >> you didn't if you put it in the trust that she was able to use it, she could use it up. But um

but if you left the house the value of the house in there and the the money in there in one lump sum and and she's got

the benefit of that, she's going to be fine. Or you've got the benefit of that, you're going to be fine. Even if she remarried.

Okay, she still only gets the benefit of that and is bound by the terms of the trust. She can't if it's only in a will,

she could change the will. Mhm. And say I'm not going to leave it to those kids. >> the death of this in this scenario, the dad >> The dad, his grown kids don't get anything until the wife dies. >> Exactly. >> Okay. Exactly. Or you could say they get >> half >> $200,000 and the rest of it goes into a trust. >> Yep. And then when she dies, they get the rest of it. They >> Well, they get they get their portion of the rest of it. Uh but the trust cannot be undone by the

surviving spouse. Like they get remarried and the new stepfather is a jerk and he wants to scarf all the money and open a pizza place, right? Or something and and he uses up all your inherit the kids' inheritance. >> Yeah, totally. >> And it's all stepfather scam artist guy, right? And so you got a Cinderella story, right? Um and not the good part, the evil stepmother's part of Cinderella, right?

So the um if you've got all the if it's just in a will, she could change the will and cut out the guy's kids that died.

Mhm. >> And and but if it's all set up in a trust, it's very difficult to do that.

So I think you can sit down and just say, "Okay, what are the terms of the trust? How much goes into the trust?" And the terms could easily be you get to live off the income and you can use some of the principal for various reasons. Yeah. Uh and so forth.

Uh and be very careful about

um crazy stuff in there because it comes back to bite you. It doesn't age well.

Like 30 years later, the crazy thing just looks like crazy.

It 30 months later, it's kind of like, "Oh, I kind of understand why he did that." But so here's an example. You can Okay, they're 50 years old and he dies

and she's got the house in a trust, but she can never sell the house.

That would be crazy. Mhm.

Because she's going to live till 80. 30 freaking years. The house is already 20 years old. So you're going to have a 50-year-old house? No, she needs to be able to sell that house. But if she does, the replacement house has to go into the trust or something like that.

But you see, you have to give it some flexibility in there. For that person.

>> can never do that that stuff doesn't age well. You know, you look out there 30 years and you've got a mess on your hands. But the answer to the overall question is get with an estate planner and I think you can fix all of this with a trust or trusts. However, you want to set it up. And that that's a good way to get at it. John's in Myrtle Beach. Hey John, how are you?

I'm good. I appreciate you guys taking uh taking my call today. Thank you.

Sure. Um so I I I have a an issue um

difficult time talking finances with my fiance uh without it, you know, turning somewhat emotional.

Um so I'm I'm looking for good practical

suggestions on how I can, you know, inspire her to kind of look at money differently along with me, you know.

Don't get me wrong. How old are y'all?

Uh 35. Is the wedding set?

The date? Uh no no sir, it's not. And part part of the reason is we I I'd like to have the same money goals or at least similar enough that this won't be an ongoing fight. Yeah, it needs to be or don't get married.

Yeah. Yeah. >> That's just the number one cause It's the number one cause of divorce. It's the number one cause of marriage misery.

Is constantly being at odds with your spouse. Yeah, what what does she What what does the fight look like? What's the conflict look like? What do you bring up and what does she push back against?

Sure. Um so I I've been having at the

baby steps on my end with with my my

debt and um you know, I'll I'll ask her sometimes, you know, um how how's your credit cards looking? Have you been paying on them? Um you know,

what's your contribution to the household going to be like soon? Um cuz I I I take all the responsi- We have We do live together. We've been together 10 years. We've been together a long time.

We do have two kids. Um so more or less we're we're married. We just haven't done the paperwork. Um but uh so as we as we start to discuss these things and I start to ask her questions, she she gets emotional.

She gets upset.

Sometimes she'll cry, and we don't we don't yell or bicker back and forth. I just think that she feels a little guilty, and and habits are hard to break, and maybe she she may feel that I have resentment maybe towards her, which I don't, but and I try to be careful with how I speak to her and things, and um but it becomes difficult to have a conversation when she's upset, so usually the conversation kind of dies at that point.

Oh, man. Okay. Well,

the reality is, yeah, you I mean, you guys are you have two kids together, you've been living together for 10 years, you're married. So so, regardless of >> We just got married. we can't Yeah, we can't get on the same page or not, you are. So like, just go ahead and tie the knot, it's happening. >> somebody. >> Yeah, it's happening.

Um so then what I would Yeah, what I would dig into, Josh, is number one, you the way you're phrasing the questions is a lot of pointing at her, you know, what are you doing? Are you paying on the bill? You you you you. It needs to be back on you, John, of hey, here's what I'm feeling, this is the story that I'm making up in my head that you feel like that there's resentment um towards me.

Um I'm making up a story that you are

shut down emotionally, and if I press any harder in the conversation, you're going to continue to shut down, and we're not going to get anywhere. Like right, like to to be able to explain where you are is going to be really, really important in this. And she's got to I mean, girl, she's 35, too?

Yeah. Okay. We got to either get into like a good counselor and dig some of all that stuff up of what's going on, but her way of doing conflict sucks.

>> not not great. Not great, so >> would suggest good pre-marriage counseling. >> Now, and and or marriage counseling, and

get married immediately. I mean, quit it. Jeez, man.

>> Raven is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Raven. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, my mom is financially irresponsible

and depends financially on her mom.

Um and I'm just kind of worried that at some point she's going to be depending on me. How do I kind of prepare for that and set boundaries when I need to about it? How old are you?

I'm 22.

Okay. I wouldn't worry about it right now.

Okay. I really wouldn't. I just I'd worry about something else. There's other stuff to worry about. How old is your mother? Yeah.

Um she's about 50. Okay. She doesn't

work? Yeah.

No, she doesn't work at all.

Is she married?

No. No.

Uh >> Is she Is she disabled in some way?

So, she um she says she is having like an

undiagnosed disability. So, she hasn't been able to get it diagnosed or, you know, get disability for it. Um so, um

Hey, don't laugh. Is it like like a like a like a No, no, no. I'm telling Dave not to laugh. Raven, you can laugh about your situation. >> I I I just I thought I thought we called that lazy. >> a Is it like an immune disorder? Like what? >> It is It's an autoimmune disease >> That could be real.

Has she had Okay. So, here here anyway, back back to your question.

Um No, I I I am I'm very suspect of that

the to say the least the uh uh

I I think I think the thing is this number number one I would pick up Henry Cloud's book Boundaries and read it.

And that begins to teach you and prepare you intellectually for how uh how difficult it's going to be to set boundaries with her.

No one has ever told her no.

And you're going to be the first one and it's going to be real difficult.

Okay, so I just want you to go build a wonderful life for you.

And then if you've got millions of dollars and you want to help her out with some groceries or something that's fine, but what you don't want to do is to take her on as

your responsibility cuz she's not your responsibility. She's 50-year-old woman that won't work.

Okay. And so um uh and so and she had every opportunity to do that and that's what you're observing. You called it financial irresponsibility. You didn't call it a medical issue. And so and you were right. So um anyway when the time comes and you have to set a boundary, I'm going to go ahead and tell you it's going to be one of the most painful things you've ever done in your life.

Because anyone that tells your mother no does not get a good reaction from your mother.

No and her my grandma's coming up on age

and we've all kind of had that discussion. So I'm I'm feeling like it's going to come up pretty close and I don't know. >> Well, I mean when your when your granny passes and your mom has to figure out how to do life, you're just going to have to tell your mom I'm 23 and I can't do this for you. You're like the old woman. You're supposed to figure this out.

I can't do it. I I Today you don't have the option of helping her. You don't have the money.

But let's say it's 10 years from now and you're 32 and you but you've put together a million dollars listening to the stuff we teach and you're able to help, but still you don't you're not required to help. You still are going to have to tell her no. In any case where she actually has to take responsibility for her life, she's going to be unhappy with the people that tell her that.

So, that's the thing I want you to pre- prepare you for. There is no trick phrase. There is no amount of money. There is no angle or strategy

that you can take that's going to make her not be pissed.

There's a 100% chance your mom's going to be pissed.

So, you might as well get ready for that. Okay? Uh the only way she's not going to be is if you become as dysfunctional as your grandmother and you take in this woman who won't work and you you continue to feed her and take care of her and she does to do nothing more. And she run off around whining acting like there's something wrong with her and there's not. She's just lazy.

And so that is a disability, but it's a different kind. And so, um that that's what you're facing and I'm sorry for that, but but anytime you have

to set boundaries with a boundary-less person the thing you have to brace yourself for is the emotional pain because you're going to be told how horrible a daughter you are and you're not.

You're going to be told you're crazy and you're not. You're going to be told everything's wrong with you and you're not. But you're still going to feel those arrows as they come at you cuz they sting. They hurt.

And so, just get ready for that.

There's no way to avoid it except to join in the crazy talk and join in the crazy land and we're not going to join in crazy land. And so, the only other then the thing that's going to happen is 100% chance your mom's not going to react well for that. She's a She's a travel agent for guilt trips. And she's going to pull out every card in the book to get you know, get money out of you and everything else and anything she could Well, I raised you.

Where were you when I was feeding you?

Well, that's like your job. You had a kid. That's where I was. And so all that. And so But but there's no amount of talking, there's no amount of words that are going to fix this lady until she comes to herself and says, I'm ready to get

better. I'm ready to get better at this thing called life. And you can't make her do that at 22.

And I don't want you to worry about it another day.

I just I do want you to brace yourself for when the time comes, it's going to be painful.

It's she's not going to go well. So, pick up Henry Cloud's book Boundaries.

You will You will go, oh, that's me. I know that guy. You know, but that's who that is.

So, that's how that works. Jay is with us. Jay is in Denver. Hi Jay, how are you?

Hello, I'm as good as I can be, Dave.

Thank you for having me. Sure. What's up?

Um I have been raised with a silver spoon my life uh my whole life. I never had to work a day. And I I'm realizing that my trust fund is about to end in about a year, uh next May or June. And I have never

worked. Uh it's my trust fund is about to my college, which is also going to

end in May uh next year. I'm studying to be an accountant and I'm getting really nervous. You So, you're I'm sorry, you're getting a degree in accounting?

Yes. Okay. And how old are you? I

I'm 23. Okay.

And uh have you Are you struggling Are you You were Were you left a trust fund because you're have a disability or a special need?

Um no. Okay, no. No, I I I I have been

given a trust fund uh through my background. >> I understand. Just your parents were wealthy, but it wasn't because you had some kind of a need. It was just they were wanting to bless you with the money.

Yes. Okay, that's fine. I just want to make the distinction. So, okay, so the money ran out and now you're going to be like an adult and get a job, huh?

Yeah, I I am and my only my main worry

is that I my work ethic I'm really worried about my work ethic and especially never had had work before. Yeah, employees are If

you you've got a work ethic or you wouldn't be getting out of school.

You don't graduate and have no work ethic.

You have a work ethic that causes you to study and go to class. That's a work ethic.

You did not work that job yet, but so have a lot of people that went to college that didn't work when they were in college. That's not that unusual.

So, I I love that you're worried about it. When do you graduate?

Uh, about May next year. Cool. Okay.

So, what would be wrong with taking a job right now and working like all the time?

See, that's the thing.

Uh, I'm an F1 legal resident alien. So,

I'm only allowed to get certain jobs that are related to campus and so,

I have been applying to jobs and I've been contacting people with my resume.

I'm just trying to get my confidence built by having a job, by holding down a job.

I'm doing that, but I'm still Well, I mean, you're you're able to start a business on the side, aren't you?

Exactly. Yeah, go go buy a leaf blower.

Rich people are afraid of leaves.

You know, go get a lawnmower. Go buy a lawnmower. And start cutting grass.

>> is not legal. Of course it's legal to cut grass.

And And it's definitely legal to blow leaves. >> about an F F1. >> I have no idea. >> Okay. No idea what you're facing. But the thing the the antidote to what you're worried about is step right straight into it head first. >> Mhm.

I'm worried I don't have work ethic. So, go prove you have one. >> Go work at the bookstore at the university campus. Like, just go do something. Yeah. >> time. >> Yeah. And you'll be fine, Jay. I think honestly, there's a lot of 23-year-olds that graduate college and they've they've never really worked before and they had to get their first adult job and all of it. So, I think it's become dramatized in your head. I think you're going to do fine, but just yeah, start working somewhere now.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Tiffany is with us in Chicago. Hi, Tiffany. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? Great.

How can we help?

Um so, the reason why I'm calling in is because I got accepted into an Ivy Plus

uh school for a very competitive, very niche graduate program.

And I was offered a partial scholarship.

Um and so, even with the scholarship, I'm looking at about $100,000 a year for student loans. My issue is um where I live currently is

like a hub for what I want to do. So, like if I was working tech, but I lived in Silicon Valley. Um but my issue is I

can't move due to the nature of my husband's job. So, if I don't get a job here, I I can't get a job anywhere, if that makes sense. And so, now that I've gone through this process and then I'm accepted and everything's kind of sinking in, I just don't know if it's feasible to take on so much debt

for something that isn't exactly guaranteed, if that makes sense. Mhm.

Okay. So, your your graduate degree would be in what?

Um so, it'd be in the medical field.

What you be specific.

So, it would be in prosthetics. Okay.

And so, this is a a master's?

Yes. So, a 2-year program?

Yes, that's correct. Okay.

And it's the it's local to you.

I thought you said you were in Silicon Valley. My screen says you're in Chicago. I'm so confused.

>> No, no, no. So, I'm I'm in Chicago,

but the nature of my job, it's huge here

in Chicago.

So, it's like the equivalent of if I was working in tech in Silicon Valley.

>> Oh, I see. Got you. Got you. Okay.

>> Yeah. So, you're you're you're in you're in the geographic location to do this. I got you. Yes, that's correct.

>> right. And your husband's job is in Chicago. And what does your husband make? So, he's a doctor. Okay. And you're you're doing what today?

Oh, I'm I am an office manager.

Okay. All right. So, you're going to enter a completely different field due to getting this master's. I I I I don't know much about that field. Is a master's required to enter that area?

Yes. Why? Is there a licensing?

Yeah, so there's a lot of like board certifications, licensing, that sort of thing involved. And the licensing requires a master's.

Mhm. Okay. All right.

Well, I all I can tell you is in general

um we have never in 30 plus years of

being on the air told someone to take out a student loan and we're not going to start with you.

Um so no, I would not do it. But then I

have to stop and think about okay, what are some workarounds to get you to where you want to go? So and in general um if you can get the license if you get the masters, you can pass the licensing regardless of where the masters came from. And if you get the licensing and the certification, you can get the job regardless of where the masters came from. There are almost zero jobs in America that they

hire you based on where you went to school. They hire you based on your knowledge and your capability that you get by becoming educated, but regardless of where you went to school. Like you said your husband's a doctor, no one walks into his office and says, "Hey doc, where'd you go to school before you they ask how if he can help them or not?" Yeah, and my my issue with that too is so there's only four schools that do what I want to do.

And I applied to all of them and I only

got into one. >> Yeah, that doesn't mean I'm going to go $200,000 in debt.

Yeah, but >> I'm going to find I'm going to find another way to do this or I'm going to do something else. But there's not a you are paying for something that does not have a return on investment when you pay for a Ivy Plus.

Okay? You're paying for the famous name and the famous name has no benefit in the marketplace. None.

No one hires people to do prosthetics based on where they went to school. No one walks into an oncologist and says, "I got cancer, doc, but wait a minute, where'd you go to school?" No one asks their lawyer where they went to school.

They just ask, "Can you help me?"

I've I've got a thousand employees. I've never hired one based on where they went to school.

So, we've got to find another way to not spend $200,000 on something that has zero return. Oh, and going in debt to do it. It's just unwise.

So, you've created this you've created this narrative, this world that says there's only one possible way to do what I want to do, and it's go $200,000 in debt to do it. And that's you know, that just all that means is you have not looked at enough enough options yet. You've not found another way to do this yet. And I don't know enough about your world to give you a practical advice other than to say, you need to you need to try some other doors on this Tiffany, how much does your husband make a year?

So, he makes I think $175,000.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. And so, even if you were paying cash for it, I would tell you not to do not to pay an extra

$200,000 to go to this particular school. >> Okay. But, you're not paying cash for it, and so it's just like absolutely don't do this.

Please don't do this.

Um but, please rewrite this narrative

and say there's got to be another way for me to get at this. And I promise you, if there's only one possible way

for you to do this, and it's through going $200,000 in debt, that's God telling you don't do it.

Don't do it.

You're supposed to do something else with your life. I don't know what it is. But, the last thing you need to do is follow through on this. It's a bad idea. So, back up, say okay, how how can I get this certification?

Does the is the master's really required? Now, there are a few things that require >> the medical field. I bet so. I it's I don't know. I I I I don't know anything about it. I truly don't know.

I but I the first thing I would do is question everything.

I'm going to rebel, right, against the system. Now, you know, here's one you can't win, okay? You can't become a

licensed psychologist for doing therapy in any state without a master's. >> Mhm. Okay? That one you can't fix. You got to find you But there's a lot of places you can get the master's in psychology, That's right. That's right.

And and so including online for that matter. Um and and so hers is a very narrow much more narrow field than that and I don't know if it's an absolute requirement or if it's just highly suggested or looked upon.

I if it's highly suggested or looked upon, I don't give a crap.

Uh I do not have a master's. I do not have a PhD. Well, it's hard when you're in such a narrow field like that.

Naturally, your options are going to be more narrow. So you may have to even expand bigger, Tiffany, and ask, "Okay, why do I love this? Could I do something

in a similar vein that still fulfills me in that way, but it's going to look >> different? I don't know. So you may have to get a little creative if it doesn't work because if it's very if it's if it's that niche and there's only four schools and all of that. >> One of the company One of the guys that comes to EntreLeadership, they own a prosthetics store.

They they do the fittings. Mhm. And I've sat and talked to him. I do not remember any of this out of that. But that I just maybe I just didn't know what I was talking >> didn't ask him, did you? You have to have a master's. >> interesting. I I truly don't know. But I I do know the concept. The concept is I'm not paying $200,000 for something that has no ROI.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

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information. We're here to help you make the latest trends easy to understand.

Median home prices are up a little last month. They generally go up a little every month. Pretty typical, especially here in the busy spring season. Mortgage interest rates are down. A 15-year fixed right now is 5.22. That's down from 6%

and some change. Yeah, it's jumped down almost a full point. To learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes.

Sarah is with us in Portland, Oregon.

Hey Sarah, what's up?

Hi, it's a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you. Certainly, how can we help?

I'd like to ask, how can I help my adult daughter understand how much money she is wasting on specialty coffee?

Ooh, you're not going to like my answer.

Well, she is graduating from college in 30 days, and I know that it won't be our place to offer financial advice unless asked after that. But, for the next 30 days, we'd like to give whatever advice we can. >> I I mean, it's too late. Four years she's been in college buying Starbucks, and you didn't say nothing.

Yeah.

I mean, you In 30 days, you want to fix four years of damage? No, I mean Damage?

Okay, it's just Starbucks. >> I know. It's such a bad habit. It's financially it's it's Well, does she have the money? >> is this is this lady What's she graduating in?

Um she'll have a degree in landscape architecture. Okay. >> Oh, great. And and is she a a good person? Is she of good character?

She's a great person. She's smart. She's incredibly talented. Her only sin is

specialty coffee?

It's I mean, it's not a sin. It's just that she's going to be starting her independent financial life, and I don't think she realizes >> she will realize it, though.

Yeah, when she starts writing a check she'll start to feel it. Yeah, when she looks down and sees her Starbucks bill, she's going to go, "Oh my, this is wild." Yeah. Yeah, these things you don't look down at the every expense >> no, but if it shows up in her budget I Okay. So, this is fun. It's It's a cute little >> account is going down. You're fine. But,

you you cuz you know that you can't do anything about this is the bottom line, and you're right. And I I personally wouldn't bring up the coffee ever again if I were you. But, what I would do is say this. I would say, "Hey, you're getting ready to graduate, and um

one of the things I wish we had taught done a better job teaching you during the last four years was to do a detailed written budget.

And um so, as you do as you come out, I really want you to pick up this EveryDollar app. It's free, and start doing a detailed written budget for your sake. And I wish I'd done a better job making sure you did that all along, but I didn't, and so it's my last parting advice. Here's what will happen when she does that, Sarah. That budget will the categories in a budget, when you actually do it and actually live on it, if you can get somebody to do that, the categories yell at you.

Yeah. And the especially coffee will yell at her and go, "I just spent 300 bucks this month on coffee. This is crazy." And the numbers will just yell at you.

They they If you're doing the actual budget >> And if she doesn't, she's going to be getting a starting salary somewhere, and she's going to have to learn how to live on her salary. And so I think And I think through trial and error there, she's going to learn "Okay, I can't eat at such and such restaurants weekly. I have to cut that back. Gosh, this coffee is like God, I'm spending so much here.

I got to probably pull back here." Like I think it's going to be some some trial and error. Or Sarah, God forbid, she has

the money for her specialty coffee, and that's what she wants to do. And if it's not illegal or immoral, there's a value system there, right? Like there's things people spend money on that I roll my eyes at. Um like 2-year-old birthday parties that look like wedding receptions.

I'm like, "Why would you Why? Why?" You know, I roll my eyes at that, but it's not wrong that people do that if they have the money. >> Yeah, and it's not your money. >> And it's not my money.

Uh you know, people look at people buying cars. Like I would never spend X on a car, but if you have the money, like that's what that's what they want to spend their money on. So there is a point that it's going to be what she values.

biggest flaw you can find in her is this, I would just step back and say, "Thank you, Jesus." And say nothing.

And say, "I did a great job. I have a great daughter. And if she spends her money on coffee I don't agree with, so what?" Um I I I would just step back from this and let it go.

I would encourage a budget, because a budget will point out to anyone of you to anybody doing a budget. A bud- The numbers yell at you. Yes. They go, "This is smart.

This is dumb." >> Well, and to your point, Sarah, what what your your opportunity cost of where money can go, right? So, even just throwing in a coffee a day in an investment calculator and just see what that would cost you, right? And again, not like you're never going to not buy coffee, but you start to see where your money has power and where you can use it wisely. But again, um buying coffee is you know, if that's what you want to So, I I saw this question come up on the screen earlier and it took me back and you've never heard this story.

And they used the coffee grounds

3 days.

They would reuse them over and over.

>> in a percolator. Okay, they put them in a percolator, make a pot of coffee. The next day, left them in there, make a pot of coffee. And every time you do that, it's weaker and weaker. >> say, by the third day, is it even coffee? >> this this is hilarious. The third day, it was so weak and so tepid

that they called it coffee tea.

Oh gosh. >> It was not really I mean, it was just nasty. >> water. But and so when your mother and I

get married and we use fresh grounds every morning they felt like about us like Sarah feels about her daughter. How wasteful you are. >> How wasteful we are cuz we make fresh coffee every day.

>> And didn't reuse the grounds

and have coffee tea the third day.

>> Yeah. Yeah. But in that that's so funny.

It's just a perspec- It's a perspective, right? >> Yeah, it is. It's just but I mean, I wasn't raised in the Great Depression and um Sarah's daughter was raised in Portland, Oregon. Which is kind of the home of specialty coffee. One of one of the homes of specialty coffees.

And so, um it's a coffee town for sure.

And uh you know, it's Yeah, that's interesting. But What a great discussion.

Yeah, it's funny. That's great. Yeah.

I will say this though. I want to go back to that other thing on every dollar. Everyone start doing your written budget, your detailed budget. Because I will say it again, money the numbers will if you actually look down at it, you will feel stupid when you're doing something stupid.

I mean the numbers will just look at you and go that's stupid. The numbers will go that's why you know, and when you start chunking money over like in your emergency fund when you're working on baby step three and you see that growing or you're chunking money on the debts and you see the debts start to go away, the numbers will tell you and you'll start to feel good about yourself. The numbers will say you're smart. You're smart. You're smart. You're smart. And that that thing talks to you.

It really does. It talks to you and it tells you you know, you're acting like a child or you're acting like an adult and that's silly to spend that and I you know, I remember one time I sat down in a in Financial Peace University group and this guy 100 years ago and and this guy says, I figured out when we did our first month's budget why we don't have anything in retirement. We're spending $1,200 a month on eating out.

Just on restaurants. Oh, yeah. And this was back in the day. >> that was like yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> be like $2,000 a month or $3,000 a month now on restaurants, right? He goes, yeah, I figured out why we don't have a retirement. We've been eating it. You know, and the the numbers are telling you.

They're looking at you going you're dumb. This is dumb. You're consuming all of this money and you're not doing any investments. You're not doing any generosity.

as a percentage of her overall income and world, it will speak up for itself and tell her. Yeah. She's going to go to the same >> you will never have to say it. Cuz I don't think you're going to do any good saying it by the way. >> Yeah. No, I I agree.

Yeah, she's going to say none of your mom. None of your business, mom.

>> She's going to say mom, what are you talking about? >> Hey mom. >> No, in the budget too, the the reframing of you know, having your money work for you. Like that that is such a big mindset mindset shift for people to say,

what can I I'm this money is here for me to use as a tool to create a life that I love. What do I do with this to create a life that I love? And stability and peace gives you some of that. It gives you a life you love. And that's the investing and the generosity. You're doing the basic things and making sure that those things are covered. And then anything above that, then you're able to say, okay, what do I want to use this for? And it sure amounts to a lot.

Coffee and there that's great, right?

>> item. >> But yeah, but making sure that again that it's it it's in a perspective and in a reality of her overall budget that makes sense. Yeah, that's fun. Good call Sarah. That's interesting. You're fun.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

So, a couple weeks ago, Rachel and I were on the air and a lady called us with a devastating, life-threatening question.

Not really, I'm being sarcastic. And uh Rachel and her bonded immediately and >> Her name was Rachel, too, which is great. >> Yeah, her name is Rachel as well and here here we put the thing on social media, a little clip of it on the reel and it's gotten like a million and a half or something views already and it's going to be 4 or 5 million by the time I've finished talking about it.

My question is is is there ever a time in Baby Step 2 that it would be appropriate to cash flow like a life event or a once-in-a-lifetime experience? >> What would that be? So, it would be to go with these several good childhood friends of mine in Las Vegas named Kevin, Nick, Howie, AJ, and Brian at the

at the sphere in August. The Backstreet Boys? Yes.

>> friends. Shoot. I'm so glad you called on this day, Rachel. You know, Rachel's been twice.

And the call went on from there and Rachel was crying because she had to tell her in Baby Step 2 >> Oh, I don't think I actually said it, the words, but >> it would be a fun thing to follow up with the the other Rachel that called in about this and she's in Indianapolis.

Hey Rachel, are you there on the line?

I am. Hey, well, something weird

happened since you called in.

So, um I somebody went into my DMs and I don't look at them, our social media guys look at them, but they recognized the guy um and he wants to come on the air and talk to you.

Um Kevin is his name. Hey Kevin, how are you?

Hey guys, how's it going? Good to have you, brother. Thanks for being with us. So Rachel, this is Kevin from the Backstreet Boys. This is your This is your child This is your childhood friend, Rachel.

Oh my goodness. Is this real right now?

>> This is real. You're not being punked.

It is a dear friend of mine shared the clip with me.

A buddy of mine who's an actor, Nick Rai, Ryan McPartlin, shared the clip with me. I saw it and I immediately

posted in the on the clip in the feed I

can help. Maybe I can help. And then I I

DM'd Dave and here we are.

And I would like to invite you and a guest to come see us

in Las Vegas.

And we'll pick up the tab.

Oh my gosh.

Well, and you can't go in baby step two if you have to pay for the travel. So Ramsey's going to pick up the travel for you, okay? Are you serious right now? Is this not the best day, Rachel? So happy for you.

>> I'm like I'm like going to start crying.

That's so fun, y'all. That is so fun. I have no idea what all y'all are squealing about, but Kevin, thank you for doing this. Kevin, you're the best. And you're amazing.

Well Well, you're amazing and thank you

for all you do. You're You work in the

in the health industry, right? Are you a nurse or a caretaker or So I'm a psychiatric nurse practitioner.

I work I work in like mental health and addiction. Okay. All right. Well, you're you're you're doing God's work

right there and you deserve a break and

you deserve a mommy daddy trip or a girlfriend's trip or whatever it is. You and a guest come and hang out with us and and take a trip back in time.

Oh my gosh, this is amazing and it's such an honor to speak with you. And it's great to speak with you, James, but but Kevin, you're amazing.

Thank you. Thank you. I believe I believe I like to I'm not I don't like to spend money.

But when I do spend money, I like to spend it on experiences.

And so you should have this experience.

Absolutely. Yeah, and Rachel can testify since she's been there twice.

>> You guys you heal inner inner childs of

of millennial women across across our world. It is It is the best show. So Rachel, I'm so excited for you.

Yes, thank you so much. This is incredible. Thank you.

Um but no, I I I'm speechless right now. It takes a lot to get me speechless.

Well, I I hope you have a great time.

And and Dave, I'm a new fan now. And Rachel here, I'm a new fan as well.

Thank you, Kevin. >> to our show. John, uh is it Delany? Is

that how you pronounce it?

>> Deloney or Delany? Deloney.

I've been following him for a while. I love what he does and he actually reached out to me, Rachel, and said you were coming to the show and I was going to try Oh. to see you guys, but we got our DM timeline crossed up and I didn't get to say hi to you. So >> That is totally fine. I so I appreciate that. He's a good friend to do that. But yeah, Kevin we love you. We do. We love the Backstreet Boys, just so you know.

following along, getting all kinds of fun how to how to handle my finances as well. That's right. If you need any help, you let us know.

I'm sure you'll be fine.

Thank you. Thank you, Kevin. That's very generous of you. We'll see you this summer. Whenever, you let us know. We're going to be in touch. Our folks will reach out to you and whenever this summer, July through August. You you figure it out, you pick it out, and we'll take care of it. Oh my gosh, you're It's like you guys are incredible. Thank you so much. Like I I I I don't know I can't say thank you enough. Like That's so awesome. >> Rachel, we'll see you this summer.

Thanks, Kevin, for reaching out. That's very generous of you. Very cool. Good stuff, guys. Very fun. Thanks, Kevin.

>> Well, you don't get to do that very often. Like never. We Oh my gosh. It's

like a It's like a Make a wish.

I feel like I feel like I feel like we just healed Rachel. I was like the fact that we get to take her, you know? It's amazing. Yeah, well, Kevin's generosity Appreciate him reaching out in the DMs.

>> Yes. Glad my social media guys actually recognized cuz I I don't look at it and I they would have gone >> Well, yeah, no, but it's >> is like the Kevin. >> Yes. Yes. And his general his generosity

and all is just incredible. And it makes a fun moment. It makes a great moment.

And So, never forget it. Oh my gosh. So

great. >> Yeah. Now we have a whole new clip. And it is the whole Well, the experience part, what he said, is so true. And that's what Arthur Brooks talks about. >> The stinking sphere is just off the chain. Do I Oh, yeah. It's just 167,000

speakers. It's like you're wearing headphones. It's incredible.

>> It's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah, Rachel's going to have a great time and we'll we'll pick up the travel and he's picked up the the tickets and the experience that he'll have that the fact that the boys will have lined up for Miss Rachel in Indianapolis and very very generous of them and we appreciate the effort and the effort to come on the air with us and and do the giveaway. >> know. He took time out of his day to do that. So kind. So kind.

>> Very nice. Very nice. Very cool.

>> Hey guys, generosity it's uh Heals the soul.

>> the best part of uh handling your money well is it puts you in a position that you can do something. The best part of handling your fame well is it puts you in a position to do something. The best part of handling your power well is it puts you in a position to do something for someone else, which is where you will get the most joy. Yes. Yep. And so

you know, it just it goes right with the giving shows the generosity stuff we talk about but obviously it's Kevin's spirit to do that and to be that kind of a person and then it sets Rachel up to be able to do this.

Mhm. It all comes down because you were

already the biggest fan and customer and she called in on a day you were on the air. >> Listen, I got someone to Taylor Swift cuz the Eras Tour was amazing, the Backstreet Boys in Vegas.

Oh my gosh, it's life changing. It is.

So when you get to >> spiritual connection. >> you for millennials y'all this is like our Oh and I just saw I think it's um

till there's some Yeah, there's some more All the millennial bands they're all like coming back. There's like a thing in Nashville happening this summer with some of them. Yeah, it just it is.

It's so good. The nostalgia play is real and >> bands are back but they're all 80.

Yeah, these guys can actually These guys are young. actually dancing and they're all good guys. Like you like there's a one of the songs and it's a video of all of like pictures of them and their moms and their kids and their wives and you're just like oh my gosh like they've just done so well. They've stewarded it so well and I think that's why I love them too. Cuz all these years later you know. Or I'm praying for Britney still. I want her to I want her to do well.

But yeah, it's awesome. So great. So great. >> Rachel and thank you again to Kevin and and the Backstreet Boys for furnishing the tickets. What a great fun thing we get to do here on the air today.

>> Listen up, folks. If you've got a complicated tax situation and you're putting off filing your return, it's time to talk with a Ramsey trusted tax pro. Not next week, not April 15th, right freaking now. Ramsey trusted tax pros know the tax code front to back, so they can do the heavy lifting to help you file on time and explain things to

you with the heart of a teacher. But, they can only do that if you get on their schedule before they book up. Go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro to find a full-time tax advisor who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

Our scripture of the day, Romans 8:28, and we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them.

Colonel Sanders said, "Just because you took longer than others doesn't mean you failed. Remember that." By the way, if you didn't know, he started Kentucky Fried Chicken at 67 years old.

So, it's not too late.

I don't care who you are.

It's not too late.

Very fun.

So, Rachel, are you okay now? I'm okay.

>> down now? I did.

I said the 12-year-old me is just

dying inside.

Dying inside. So funny.

>> Listen, the boy band era was real, y'all. When you were in middle school I mean that was a that was a real real thing. So, that that's pretty wild.

>> So, they had to be like 20 years old, right? Or they were six they were they were teenagers. Teen- oh yeah, uh-huh.

>> Okay. All right. Yeah, but he was the oldest bandmate and he just told me cuz I went and I ran into the booth to say bye to thank you. Um yeah, his his oldest he said was 18 is 18 his oldest child son. Oh, so A- age he was when all this was happening. >> Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow.

>> So, and I think he was a little bit older in the band, too, if I remember right. But anyways, it was great. So fun. Um And to be able to hook her up on that deal.

>> to do like a once-a-year giveaway on Ramsey show somehow. >> if we found somebody like that, we'll do it. I mean, we didn't create that, he did. It was awesome.

I mean, we we just facilitated it, right? But um we we got So, if you call in want concert tickets, we're not buying them for you, okay?

Um but yeah, that's but I yeah, he that

he DM'd us and So nice.

>> even talking to social media guy and he's telling me the whole story. It's great. I didn't even know how this all happened, but very interesting.

Very fun. It's fun. Fun. Wonderful.

Yeah. I think I think I think she was truly speechless. Yeah, I'm sure that was like a massive uh whiplash. Yeah. Yeah, have you She had no idea why we called her on the air.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> We called her and said, "We need you to come back on the air." And she's like, "What did I do?" What? "What did I do wrong? What did I do wrong?" All right, Emil is with us in Miami. Hi, Emil. How are you? Hey guys, I hope you're doing better than you deserve. >> We are. How can we help you today, sir?

Yes, so I just graduated college 4 months ago. I'm 26 years old.

I was able to secure a 70k uh career

that's uh pretty stable.

And I wanted to know how I can stay motivated to stay out of debt for the next, you know, 40 years. Um I have no student loans. I have a paid-off car, thanks to my parents.

And um I do have 5K in credit card debt.

Mhm.

And you're wanting to know just how to Well, you you you can't stay motivated in a vague sense of oh, I'm just going to be motivated. Mo- Most people can't. You need a specific reason that you're doing

things. So, uh you know, for instance, when we went broke um and I filed bankruptcy the

year Rachel was born because I was an idiot. And um so, my reason was to never

be back in that kind of pain again and to make sure I could feed my children and to change my family tree. That was my reason, my driving force was to never

be stuck with by that again. And and so, you know, why if you were to build wealth, why would you?

And what would be your goal? What is it you're trying to do with the wealth? Um so, if you're married with a kid, you'd say, "Oh, I'd love to change my family tree. You know, I I'm the first one in my family to graduate from college, and so I'm going to use that as a way to, you

know, further the the the family name and the um

you know, but I don't know what your thing is, but you need to have something that's a a reason, a why that you're

doing this. If you have a good why, your motivation is there. So, uh I'll recommend a book for you and a TED Talk as well that's famous by a friend of mine named Simon Sinek.

Simon is became famous from the TED Talk and now he's had multiple best-selling books and we've spoken together in leadership conferences. He's a wonderful guy. The book that made him famous and the talk that made him famous is called Start With Why. Mhm. Start With Why. And

so, you have to have a big why for scratching and clawing and sacrificing to win.

Um otherwise, you'll just be mediocre.

And in America today, it's very easy to

have a really high-quality life

and be average and mediocre and not be all that you could be.

The enemy of excellence is not

uh is not uh laziness and all this. The enemy of excellence is, "Oh, everything's okay." So, I don't have to push myself. Mhm.

And I don't I don't have to develop a why. I'm just like, "Thank God it's Friday. Oh God, it's Monday." Coasting. Coasting.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you need a why. You need a reason that we're doing this.

And if you've got that, then it'll get you up in the morning, and money will be a natural result of that.

So, those things that money can't buy, you know, I'm doing this for my family. I'm doing this for security and peace. I'm doing it like You know what I mean? Like those >> Doing this for Someday I want to Someday I want to give away a million dollars. Yes, the generosity.

>> I want to do this. Someday I want to do that. And that's your driving thing, and it becomes a goal. Your why becomes a goal, and then you begin to break it down year by year and go, "Okay, this year I'm going to make this much progress towards that goal.

Next year I'm going to make that much progress towards that goal." And so on. And you little bit at a time you get there, and that'll also keep you away from things that are harming you uh if you have a good enough why. And so, you know, you'll cut up the credit cards and get rid of the little $5,000 worth of debt that's just kind of that's just disorganized and lazy is all that is.

ethic lazy. Mitchell is in Chattanooga.

Hi Mitchell, how are you?

Good. Thank you guys for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

So, my wife and I are planning on moving in the next 18 months, but we're planning on moving to a different state to be closer to family. So, my question is how do we tackle that large of a move? For context, we

have 85,000 still left on our house and it's worth about 350. So, our plan would be to take the equity from the house and use that as a down payment toward the next house. But, if we if we don't sell our house and but find one in the next state and vice versa, if we have somebody wanting to buy our house here, but we haven't found the next house, what do we go about with contingencies? How would that work?

Um well, I before I worried about that, I would flow chart this and say, we are moving when these things happen and not until.

Uh and I don't know what these things are, but two that come to mind could be the house sells and it could be you have your new job lined up there.

You didn't mention that. You just said we want to be closer to family. You didn't mention I've got a job lined up, do you?

I well, I work remote and I can work anywhere, so the job would just go with me. >> Okay, that's easy then. Okay.

So, the only thing keeping you from leaving could be the sale of the house.

You could just sit there until the house sells.

And then if we sell this house, would we would it be smart to do a lease back while we're finding the house in the next state?

Um I mean, if you can delay the closing, that's fine. If you end up um you know, what I would do is when you put your house on the market, I would begin shopping houses there.

And say, this this neighborhood, these four houses in this neighborhood would be great. Any of them would be great.

And if our house sells, we're immediately going to make an offer on one of those and we'll set them up for closings 2 days apart. And um

and you can make that happen. Or you can do you can you know, set up a If the buyer is willing on your side to let you live there for a month while you fool around and find a house, that's fine. But I think you can do your your footwork, especially if you got family over there, and you maybe lived there before yourself. I don't know. You kind of know some of the areas already that you're thinking of.

Well, go over there and look at go physically go visit the houses like you're looking for a house cuz you are.

And only you're just not putting in an offer today. And then don't get all hot and bothered and buy a house before your sales. That's going to get you into a mess. At least at least don't close on it. >> was the perfect Yeah, so now now so that I actually did this a few years ago. Um we ended up uh it was a two-step procedure for us because we were going to build. And obviously we didn't have time to build while we sat in the old house, right? Uh

so we bought another house. But we had already shopped that neighborhood before we put our house on the market. We put it on the market, it sold, and we made offers on three different houses in that neighborhood and moved bought one of them moved into that neighborhood. And you can do that kind of a thing. And you can also put a contingency offer that's contingent upon the closing of your old house. And you don't have to close on the new one until the old one sells.

That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jay Borshaw. Next to me, George Camel, and we're taking your calls for the next 3 hours. 88825-5225 gets you on the line where Melissa from Dallas, Texas is now awaiting. Melissa,

how can we help today?

>> Hi, thanks so much for having me on today. Um, so my question that I'm trying to figure out is if I should sell my house uh while I'm currently in a bankruptcy that was caused by my husband

making investments in a failed Bitcoin

mining business. >> Yikes. >> Yeah, >> a lot going on there.

>> Okay, so you're thinking about selling the house. You're in bankruptcy. How much money did he lose in the Bitcoin mining scam?

Well, there's $250,000 in personally guaranteed business loans and then $100,000 in credit card debt

and about 274K on a heliloc.

>> This can't all be due to his Bitcoin investment.

>> Um, as from what I've seen, it's all

related to the mining equipment and the hosting fees. So, he went 624 grand into

debt for a Bitcoin mining business.

>> Uh, for the most part. Yeah. I mean, then what I didn't know as all this was happening is that, you know, he was also at certain points covering, you know, just our um additional expenses out of

whatever he was racking up on the credit cards. >> Got it. And you didn't know about any of this?

No, I Well, I knew that he was taking out loans um but I really didn't have a lot of visibility to how much we had amassed or

in what poor of shape we were in.

>> Okay. Well, before we get to the finances, how's your marriage doing?

>> Um it's really difficult. Um you know, I

feel like I came into the marriage like a huge Dave Ramsey fan. I didn't have any debt and I thought we were really aligned and you know honestly I had three babies in a 5-year period and I really just kind of took my eyes off of what the finances were and I just completely trusted him to deal with it and I feel like that was my mistake.

>> Are you guys going through counseling right now?

>> We've we've gone to counseling um twice

and you know he wasn't super engaged.

The last time that we went, the counselor started saying some kind of hard things and, you know, he felt like he was being really blamed for all the problems and he later admitted to me that he intentionally sabotaged it. Oh.

>> And yeah, like we've had conversations about going back to counseling, but I've kind of put that in his court and he hasn't taken any action on that.

>> It sounds like he's not ready to accept responsibility for how he has destroyed

this family.

Yeah, it, you know, he'll admit that he made mistakes, but he doesn't seem to view it with the same level of gravity that I do. >> Yeah, there's mistakes. And then there's threequarters of a million dollars in debt behind your wife's back.

>> Mhm. >> To try to get rich quick. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So, okay. Neither here nor there.

>> Let's talk numbers. So, you're talking about selling this house. I mean, did you file chapter 7 or chapter 13?

>> So, we're currently under a chapter 13.

Our plan was dismissed or I'm sorry.

What? It is potentially going to be dismissed.

>> Yeah. Well, we tried to move to a chapter 7 cuz my husband lost his job in February, >> but now we're in this weird situation where we have about $30,000 in cash and our attorney told us, "Don't convert to a chapter 7 until you spend down that money >> when Oh, cuz they'll take that money."

>> Yes. So, if you want if you're thinking of selling the home, let's talk about the equity and what you think you're going to do with that money because obviously to your point, the court has to approve you selling the house if you're still in chapter 13. But what what's your plan? So, you've got the $274,000 heliloc. What else do you owe

on the house and what's it worth?

>> Um, we owe an additional 455.

>> Okay. on the house and we could sell the house for around 950K.

>> Interesting. Okay. So, and then what would you I mean would you just turn around and take that money and pay off all the remaining debt or is what's your

plan here? >> So, our thought is if we end up getting the chapter 7, we would take that money

and we would really I mean we probably have to move to a renting situation and then just use that money to live for a period of time.

because my husband's not working right now. >> Okay. Okay. My question, why in the

beginning wouldn't you have just would you have not just done that? Why would why not just sell the house uh take

whatever you know $200,000 of equity and

just clear out as much of this debt as possible and then pay off the 150? Why not just do that? Well, the houses in this neighborhood have appreciated so much that we wouldn't be able to move back here now. And we really just wanted to try and provide some stability for the kids and keep them in the same school district, >> right?

But yeah, >> with the with the bankruptcy, you just lose so much control and >> you also there's a redemption that you kind of want to feel, which is getting yourself in a mess and then getting yourself out of it. I mean, I guess it's neither here nor there.

Are you asking if I'm locked in? Well, if it if the case is dismissed, >> then we will have we won't be able to refile for another 120 days. So,

>> if you don't have to be locked into this bankruptcy, I don't know that I would be because you've got equity to really uh handle more than half of the debt here >> and then you're on the hook for 150.

What's you guys' income?

Um, I'm making about 125K. When he was

working, he was in the 150 to 200 range.

>> Yeah. Plus, you've got the 30,000 cash.

I I mean, George, what do you think? Cuz I'm looking at this. Let's say you sold for $950 and you cleared the heliloc and your mortgage, right? That leaves you with about $200,000 maybe.

>> Now, we have 200 grand to play with. We can pay off the 100 grand in credit card debt and now we're down to the business debt and we still have 100 grand. So, at the end of all this, you could have 150 grand in business debt as your only thing to deal with while you rent for a while to clean the mess up. >> Well, you could also actually be more like 130 because you've got 30,000 cash.

>> Use some of the savings to knock out some of the business debt. And now you got 130k to clean up hopefully making.

Is he going to be working soon? What What's the progress on that?

>> Well, because we're trying to move to the chapter 7, he hasn't really been applying for jobs. >> Goodness gracious. And see, that's and that's that's where I'm concerned because life doesn't stop. Like this is

not the get out of jail free card that says, "Okay, we're done. This is all, you know, cleared up. We don't have to work anymore. We get to stay in the same neighborhood.

Nothing changes." This needs to change you. This should change everything. This business of we're just going to file bankruptcy and he's not going to go to work and this will let us live in the same neighborhood and act like everything's hunky dory. That's just not reality.

I'm not going to do this for the school district.

That should be the focus right now.

School we can deal with later. You guys make great money and you will be for the future. I'm not concerned about you getting into another home that you love.

Right now, we got to clean up a mess.

>> Yes. And you want to know what I'm going to say this and and it might be um controvers but it's okay for kids to

feel um the weight of mistakes that happen in life. It's okay cuz they're part of the family unit and they'll see the family unit go through some rocky times and then they'll see the family unit get their foot and and get solid footing again. And that's good. That builds resilience. That helps them see what life is actually like. And so trying to shield them from every bump in the road, uh, you don't need to do that and you don't have to feel the weight of that because that's not life.

George Camel here. Let me give you three signs it's time to stop hoping your debt problem goes away and actually take action to fix it. If you've defaulted on a debt, if collectors are calling non-stop, or if you're facing a lawsuit or think one's coming, you don't just have a debt problem anymore, you've got a legal problem. And that's why I tell people about Guardian Litigation Group.

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Back to the phone lines where we have Stephen in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

What's going on, Stephen? How can we help today?

Ste. Uh, my name is Stephen and me and my wife are uh 40 weeks pregnant and uh

our HOA has come up with an assessment

and uh it's about $14,000 and they've

given it to us for um they're giving us 30 days to come up with the money and uh

didn't know how we could uh come up with that or what we should do in the situation. >> Oh my gosh. Um what what's the assessment for?

The assessment is for uh exterior work

on our building and um it's also for a

new roof on our our condo building.

>> And you was this new information?

>> Um they came out with it uh back in

January roughly. we're looking to do

this. And uh then uh we found out a

couple months ago that one of the AC units on the roof was uh not working.

And uh so they paused the initial assessment.

So we didn't know when it would continue until um uh about a week ago. So we kind

of had to stop and pay the assessment for the new AC unit. And then now we have to pay the assessment for the exterior work and the new roof.

>> Have you talked to the HOA yet?

>> Not yet. >> Okay. I would I think many HOAs would be willing to extend this out a little bit.

See if they'll extend it to 6 to 12 months. If you ask in writing, get everything in writing, not just well, I talk to somebody on the phone and let them know your situation and see if they're willing to play ball. I'm not saying that's your your way out of this thing, but if we can buy some time, that would be great cuz this baby's about to pop. >> Yeah.

Have you been in to any of the homeowners association meetings? Is anybody else kind of out of sorts about this?

>> Yeah. Some some people are trying to sell and get out of the building. Uh some people are okay with it because they know it's going to raise their property value.

Definitely. >> Well, either way, they're not getting out of the assessment. If they sell, they'll just have to pay that out of the proceeds. >> So, it's not that's not a good solution.

How much money do you guys have right now liquid?

>> Uh, we have about uh four grand in the bank and my wife is also 40 weeks pregnant. So, >> yeah. >> Right. You need that money.

>> We need to hang on to that because we don't know what could happen. So, once mom and baby are home safe, now we have a much more clear plan about what we can do with this money. But I think first things first, you need to talk to the HOA, write them an email or a letter getting some clarity on this and asking for an extension.

>> Okay. >> But the truth is the HOA just wasn't properly funded. Money was poorly managed. They knew this was coming and they chose to just make it a special assessment versus, you know, increasing dues way back when in order to save up for this.

But this is it's just part of HOA life. >> It's part of home ownership and we say all the time that owning a home is not cheap. Like there there are costs that go along with it. But I 100% would do what George said.

I would send a letter and I would make it clear. I'd give a reasonable reason and say, "Hey, my wife is 40 weeks pregnant. We have medical bills coming due. We want to stay on top of those.

We intend to pay this. It's not you trying to get out of paying it or, you know, trying to fight it as much as it is just saying, "Hey, just need a little bit more time." That's reasonable. Most people don't have $14,000 just sitting around unless you've been walking the baby steps for >> That's why I go like very few people in your neighborhood are going to be able to afford that. >> Exactly.

And and I think there probably is some power in everybody kind of getting together and saying as as one, one band, one sound.

>> Oh, yeah. >> From drum line. >> Good reference. >> Yeah. I don't think about drum line often, but >> I never do. It just came up now. All

right. Caroline is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hey, Caroline. How can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I and me and my fianceé are getting married later this year, and I am just wondering how aggressive do I need to be with investing? Um, we've gotten out of all of our debt. I went to school um on scholarship, so I have no student loans and he has no >> any type of debt. And I'm just curious since we're both 21. I'm just curious what it looks like moving forward and being as wise as we possibly can.

>> I love that. >> So just general advice for for newlyweds.

>> Yeah. But like more more like with investing and like trying to, you know, get wealthy, not necessarily quick, but just preparing for >> You want to be intentional as best we can. >> Well, time is on your side. At 21, so here's the math on this because I think this will really encourage you. At 20 years old, the power of a dollar, it turns into 73x that at 65 years old. So

20 to 65, every dollar you invest is really worth $73. But when you're 55 and

you invest that dollar, it's only worth about $4 at 65. So you see there is a a

big hockey stick going the opposite direction over time where you don't have time for compound growth to do its thing where your money makes more money and that new pile of money makes a little more money when you're invested wisely into you know a mutual fund a giant grouping of stocks and we're all rooting for the revenue to go up the share price to go up which increases your wealth. So I would definitely be that would be a goal of mine. I wouldn't make it the singular goal because you guys probably also want to become homeowners or go on a honeymoon or take vacations and upgrade the car.

>> Um I have about $5,000 saved cash and

then I also have like 6,500 already invested in like a Roth IRA account.

Okay. >> Um he does not have much savings at all.

Um, but yeah, >> uh, you know, the the the best thing to set yourself up for investing is to make sure that you can set that money and forget it and never have to pull it out again and just let it continue to grow and grow and compound like George said.

And the way to do that is to make sure that you've got adequate liquid savings.

Um, and so I would suggest bumping up your $5,000 to six months of expenses.

Three to six months of expenses. How much do you think that that would be in your case?

Um, I'm not totally sure. We haven't quite found a place to live yet. Um, but once I do, like I do plan on getting that done right before we get married and move in. >> So, that'd be When do you get married, by the way? >> October 1st of this year.

>> Okay. So, that'd be thing one um is figuring out, okay, what's it going to cost for us to live once we're married?

And then thing two I would say is uh

from there we can decide okay we're going to invest uh if there's no debt between the two of you you've got the three six months of expenses now you can say okay baby step four is what we teach 15% of your gross income combined income

going towards retirement and usually that's through an employee sponsored account like a 401k uh a Roth IRA if you

don't have access to a 401k uh do both of you have that access >> I do he does that.

>> Okay. Uh, what kind of work does he do?

>> He's in construction full-time. Um, he's with a smaller company, so they don't offer any type of insurance or retirement benefits. Okay.

>> Um, I will be starting my job in the hospital in June. And so, they do offer all of those things. >> Okay, great. Then he can put earned income into, you know, a Roth IRA. What do you know how much you guys will be earning together?

>> Uh, together we'll make around 95.

>> Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. So the goal would be yeah 15% of that every

single month. Pack that away and honestly you're off to an incredible start. George, do you are you looking at numbers on that? >> Yeah. So that you know 15% of your 95,000 that's 14,250 bucks going towards

these tax advantage retirement accounts.

So we we always teach match beats Roth beats traditional. So what that means is if you have a match through the the hospital, let's take that first because it's a 100% return on every dollar you put in. Then if you have a Roth option like a a Roth 401k or Roth IRA, let's fund that. And if we still haven't hit 15%, then we can go to the traditional option.

If you have a traditional 401k, so it just gets filtered through that and he he can still open a Roth IRA and invest just like you have.

And you guys will be off to the races at 21 if you guys just stay out of debt.

>> Keep the emergency fund.

>> Jay just crunched the numbers for you using our investment calculator. Tell her what she's won. >> Yeah. At at age 21. This is just if you did this till retirement age 59 and a half or 60. Uh you said you currently have 6,400 in there. 6500. This is you

contributing 15% every single month at a annualized rate of return between 10 to 11%. That's 9.5 million Caroline.

>> Holy moly.

>> And so that just shows the power of starting young. To George's point, starting young when you're ready, right?

You've got everything, you know, squared away. You've paid off your debt like you guys have done. You've saved up your 3 to 6 months like you guys have done.

This is amazing. >> You are the poster child for this is what life can be like when you don't graduate with a giant pile of debt and a car payment and credit card debt cuz you were told you have to build credit, which is the stupidest advice you could give to an 18-year-old. So, keep doing what you're doing. Stay out of debt.

Don't rob your retirement. Get on the same page. Align on your money values and your goals. And you guys are going to be baby steps millionaires and homeowners in no time.

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All right, big announcement, George.

It's May and you know what that means?

>> The Ramsay cash giveaway is here.

>> That's right. That's right. I thought you were going to hit me with it's going to be May and that would make me >> Well, at first I was like big announcement, it's May. And I was like, oh, there's an M dash there. It's a pause. A pregnant pause, if you will.

>> Pregnant pause. Well, he's right. It is Ramsay cash giveaway. And because of that, you can enter every single day from May 1st to May 31st for one grand

prize of $10,000.

Plus, there's going to be one week weekly, one weekly winner of a $500 prize, and you can enter daily to increase your chances of winning. Plus, be sure to check out our sale going on right now. You can kick off summer with books and assessments for just $12. Go to ramseysolutions.com/giveaway now to enter. No purchase necessary to win. I love that for you guys. All right, Derek is in San Antonio, Texas.

How can we help, Derek?

>> Uh yes, ma'am. First of all, thank you for uh for you answering my call.

>> Yeah. Uh little nurse. Uh the question I have uh is it's something that's really been bothering me a lot causing a lot of stress in my life to the point where I just been sick for the last few months and I just want to make sure I'm, you know, making the right decision. Uh my wife and I both retired, uh former military, we both retired, received a pension.

Uh there's some disability benefits in there and I got lucky. God put me in a good place.

Uh and our current income right now is currently 275,000 a year. Wow.

>> As our home income, >> uh the situation is uh is about buying a

new house. >> So, we currently live in a home uh that we, you know, we moved into when we PCS here. We never thought it was going to be a forever home, but we thought it was a a nice home that we moved into and then we decided to get out of the Air Force. And uh it's not a million- dollar

mansion or anything, but it's a nice two-bedroom home, twotory, and uh it is definitely better than anything I ever grew up with in my in my lifetime.

>> Okay. My wife wants to move to a one-story, but it is almost $800,000,

which currently has a mortgage of about $4,500 a month, which is currently 25%

of our current income, which which I think is okay. >> Yeah. But >> yes, >> but I plan on retiring officially because I mean between deployments, I mean you you name it at overseas uh PTSD

and everything else. I really wanted to, you know, retire and start focusing on my family, my grandkids in the next 15 years. >> 15 years. Okay.

>> And that's going to cut our income in half to about 150, which turns that now

mortgage, which is a 30-year mortgage. I know it shouldn't be a 30-year mortgage, but I know it's going to turn that mortgage into, >> you know, 40 uh basically 50% of our pay. >> Yes. >> And I know we're not going to be able to afford that. And that's only if based on the current world that we live in, this job keeps me and everything stays functional because there's cuts that I see every day, especially in the world of tech and AI, such as people getting cut daily. I'm afraid that if we make

this purchase that she really wants to make that we can afford right now that if anything happens uh it's going to

ruin us. It's going to ruin us because we've never She's never ever experienced a financial bind. You know, she grew up with a lot of great things. I grew up poor so I know what it's like and I can deal with it, but I know she's it's going to just it's going to tear us apart. >> Dude, you you >> I don't know if I should do this. >> I I I 100% sympathize with what you're

saying. there's something to be said for you've worked really hard, you've um you have a really great income and it feels like yeah, I want to live at the income that I'm earning money, but then those fears creep in and it's like what if everything goes south? Um and then if that's the case, I I'm we're really in a bind. And so I kind of want to normalize

that because that's true for everybody.

I mean, if I lost my job tomorrow, George, or if you lost your job, now we have an emergency fund. >> Yeah. Yeah, but it's not like we could just never work again and be fine, >> right?

that's all of our lives is we could lose our job and even with an emergency fund is three to six month, you know, six months of expenses. So, you have six months to find a new gig. So you're saying that that would be impossible for you? >> No. So what I'm saying is that so is that it it wouldn't be impossible. I could find another job. But so the so the issue is that the house that we live in right now, we only owe 130k.

>> Uhhuh. >> So I and with our total savings and and investments and IAS that we have right now, we have over 300 saved up right now. >> Okay. >> Uh so so with 300k saved up right now,

uh >> that's what we have just set set that's for for retirement. That's what we have set aside for retirement. You know, 324 is is the exact number. >> Okay. >> The the house that we live in now, the the plan that we were looking at, and I'm sure a lot of people probably tell you this, is that my current mortgage is only $1,100 a month.

>> Love that for you. >> And and then with but with the current uh market, I could easily rent it out for twice that and and allow that renter to pay for it itself while I just focus on the new house, which I don't think is which I don't know is a good idea. >> I I probably wouldn't do that. I think what it sounds like to me is this is just a meeting in the middle.

Because the truth is, yeah, I don't want you to get a $800,000 house on a 30-year mortgage. I want you to get a house that you can afford on a 15-year mortgage that that lands you at 25% of your income. So, I do think $800,000 sounds like too much house for you guys right now. Maybe you could get closer to 600,000, right?

So, I think that there's a place where you can meet uh that your wife is going to feel good about the upgrade and that you're going to feel good about.

anxiety about it. Maybe you get something that's instead of 25%, maybe it's 15% or, you know, 20% and it makes

you just feel a little better at night because here's the thing. You said this is a 15-year play. If you have a 15-year mortgage, do you want to know what? You're debtree in 15 years. And most of the people who follow the Ramsey plan are debtree a lot faster. It's more like a 7 to 10 year deal.

>> Right. >> So your game plan is to retire in 15 years if everything goes to plan.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> Then I think that's that's the play is you get to retire once this mortgage is paid off. That kind of gives you a great carrot to dangle, doesn't it?

>> Yes. >> So if it's 10 years from now, boom, you got to retire 5 years earlier. And so I love the idea of setting a goal where she's not having to settle and you're not having to stretch. Instead, you both are aligned going, "All right, great. We might need to wait a year to build more equity, knock out this mortgage, which you guys could knock out 130 grand mortgage pretty quick, making 275 with no debt, right?" >> Right. >> Have you been putting extra toward it?

>> Yes. So, and I So, I doubled down on it and that was so I was wondering, you know, should I just pay off this house that I'm in now? >> Yeah. triple down. >> What I have and then triple down, pay this one off and then >> you have all the equity. So when you go to sell, and here's what I did, you roll over that 100% equity right into the new house. >> And do you have any other cash laying around? Not retirement, but just liquid.

>> Yes, we have about 100K just sitting in in between our savings accounts.

>> Okay. And I'm sure that's a big cushion.

>> That's a big cushion. I'm sure probably 50 or 60 would be fine for you to feel good about having six months of expenses. So, there's another 40 there that you could put with that and add that to that down payment. >> The more you can put down, the lower that mortgage is going to be.

And if it's on a 15-year and it's a comfortable payment, you're going to be able to throw extra at it and knock it out. What we've seen is average about seven years if you follow our plan to get rid of that mortgage. >> Mhm.

>> It does. I just got to talk to her about it now. >> Well, once you get stareyed about a home, it's party's over, man. I mean, once you're Zillow doom scrolling, you're like, "This is the house, babe.

This is the one. It checks off all of our boxes." >> That's a realtor's dream. They're like, "Oh, we got them." You know what I mean? It's like going to the dealership being like, "That's the car I want." >> You don't want to do that.

You want to go in with walkway power going, "We don't need this house. It's a good house." You kind of want to be nonchalant about it. >> You do. I mean, Derek, when you called in, you said you made yourself sick about this.

>> I think so. I think I think I feel I feel I feel a lot better. >> Good. Good. You deserve that. >> I really appreciate it. >> And thank you for your your sacrifice and service to both of you. >> Yeah, absolutely. You know what Dererick is talking about. I I totally

understand. And and and some of the best advice I got was just to like no matter how well you do, no matter how well you earn, just like if you can keep your expenses low, it just does give you a piece of mind that >> you're more flexible. >> You're more flexible and and if something did happen, it it is it does help you sleep at night. Like I could totally understand what Dererick was saying, but then there's a side of it that you don't want it to creep into like irrational fear and just kind of like >> just kind of scarcity mindset.

Glass half empty, it's all going to come crashing down. I'm like, dude, you got you're debtree with 100k in savings. You make 275. Even if you go down to 150, that's still double the average household income, right?

>> If you can't make that work, we got bigger fish to fry. >> You got bigger fish. And And you know what? The worst that h it's like play out the worst that could happen.

The worst that could happen is you sell your house and you downgrade. Decade from now, we might sell the house. >> Yes, >> I can live with that.

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All right, George, let's go back to the phone lines. We have Jonah who's in Cleveland, Ohio. What's up, Jonah? How

can we help today?

Hi, my Morgan Stanley advisor wants me to get a low limit credit card. I was wondering how I should respond to that.

>> What's their reasoning?

>> I mean, just for reasons of building credit to get a car and a home and just

the standard reasons.

>> Do you agree with them?

>> I I'm on the fence. Um I've never had a

credit card and I've been doing fine so far. So, I'm just wondering what you guys think. Well, you tell me this. The Morgan Stanley Advisor exists to help you build wealth. Correct?

>> Yes. >> Now, tell me this. Them telling you to get credit, to get a car loan, which goes down in value while you pay interest on it, how does that help you build wealth?

>> I'm not sure. I mean, always buying something is not going to make you more wealthy. >> Let's play this out, then. Would you not question the advice of said financial adviser and whether or not you should continue working with them?

If you guys have different values and operate by different set of principles,

>> right? Right. And this is where I'm confused and looking for guidance.

>> Well, the truth is uh 99% of financial

advisors out there are going to be telling you the same thing. You got to get credit if you want to survive in this world. You got to build. Everyone has a car payment. It's fine. Just make it a reasonable one. All of that. Get a home as soon as you can no matter what because it's awesome to build equity.

This is the kind of stuff that we hear all the time and the truth is not all financial advisors are created equal. So you want to find one that aligns with your values and principles which it sounds like are I'm debtree. I want to stay debtree. I want to build wealth with peace and simplicity and not by playing some game.

>> Would you is that I I'm projecting but you tell me what your principles and values are. >> That that's exactly right. I'm just concerned about if I get to the time when I need credit will that affect me.

So let's talk about that because that's a that's what you're asking Jonah is something that probably lots of people are wondering about even while they're listening right now which is don't I need credit George and Jade to operate in this world and the honest to God truth is you do not. So George let's tackle the three I'm going to go with three main areas where people that think that they need credit. First one is well what if I want an apartment? Aren't they going to check my credit score uh for me to get an apartment?

And the answer is some places yes but many places no.

not necessary at all. >> What they're checking for is delinquency, a bad credit score, no credit score, and I've done this multiple times. No credit score, renting apartments. Yes.

They just go, "Okay, well, it might be a slightly higher deposit." >> That's right. Same here. Okay. The next one is, "What about a car?

How am I ever supposed to buy a car in this world, George and Jade, if I don't have a credit score?" And uh over here, I'm going to tell you and and we're going to break down how to do it uh in a minute, but we buy cars in cash here. And I know that that probably made Jonah, you might have clutched your pearls or somebody listening clutch theirs, but >> you can't do that in today's world. Cars are $50,000. Well, don't buy a $50,000 car, you dingus.

>> No. What you do there, there's two paths to doing this. One is, let's say I have a car note now. I just aggressively pay off the car note that I have now.

And when the time comes, in the meantime, after I've paid off the car, I'm putting aside a little bit of money extra and extra. And when I'm ready to trade the car in, I take whatever value is from the tradein or if maybe I sell it, you know, private sale. I add my saved money to it and I'm able to upgrade. Now, this is a stair a slight stair step up.

Maybe I had a $10,000 car and I go up to a $14,000 car. Or I had a $10,000 and I go up to a $16,000 car, right?

right out of the gate. Do you see what I'm saying? This is a very slow and methodical way. Yes.

And and the value is you get to drive a new to you vehicle that's paid for and you have your cash to invest, you know, and build wealth. Now, the third thing, George, and this is the big one. How the heck am I supposed to buy a house in this world, George, without a credit score? >> This one's hilarious to me because everybody who has opinions about it has never done it without a score.

That's right. So, let me be the guy who's done it, Joe. >> George and George and I have done it. >> Yeah.

It's called manual underwriting or a no score loan.

>> That's it. >> That's it. >> And so, and Church Hill Mortgage has been a partner of ours for decades now, and they specialize in these types of loans. And so, it's very possible to live without a credit score. In fact, I've been living without a credit card for 13 years now. same.

>> And I can count on maybe half a finger how many times it was it like was more difficult to live my life. >> There was one time that I was renting a car and because I didn't have it was like your return ticket. >> You need a return ticket. >> Yeah.

To the same city. >> They think you're going to apparently never come back with that car if you don't have a return ticket. >> And that was the only time. And I I mean we got around it somehow.

then it came back when we got a mortgage, but I've never utilized it.

I've never needed it for anything since then, Jonah. Um, and so that's Are you

convinced? Are you going to number one not get a credit card? Number two, switch financial advisors.

>> So, my only other question is what if I could guarantee covering the cost on the low limit every year? If you could figure that out, we wouldn't have a show. So tell us how you're gonna guarantee.

>> And even then, here's the truth. You're gonna spend more than you would have.

Would you agree you're going to spend more of someone else's money that you get to pay back later versus your money coming out of your account now?

>> Well, I would just not spend it at all if it if it ever became a problem.

>> Well, then it's too late, isn't it? Once it's a problem. We have $1.3 trillion

dollars in credit card debt as a nation and zero dollars in debit card debt last time I checked. >> And and honestly, if you're if your thought is like, I'm just going to get this credit card, but I'm never going to spend it. It's not going to help your credit in the way that you think it is.

A credit score measures all of your dealings with debt. So, in order to have an optimal credit score, you have to borrow a lot of money frequently. It has to be revolving. So, it's measuring things like how long have you had the credit? How much of your available credit are you using? How, you know, uh

what's your total amount of of of credit? What's your total amount of debt? Like, it's looking at all of that as a full picture. And so, if you're thinking, "Oh, I'll just kind of like dip my toe and just kind of like wet my beak in the water." It's not going to work.

You're going to get pulled into it because every month it's going to say, "Here are some things that you can do to build your credit." And next thing you know, you're going to say, "Well, I'll just put my gas on there >> or I'll just put my groceries on there." And even if you play it perfectly, all you've really done is make it through the maze, which you're going to have to keep doing. Have you heard of Seisphus, the guy who pushed the rock up the hill in Greek mythology, and he had to do it every single day.

>> We're going deep. >> That's life on even navigating the credit score game. So, here's the deal, Jonah. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, because I wrote the credit card chapter exactly for a guy in your shoes who goes, "I don't want to play this game, but I think it's the only path." And I walk through the eight different credit card archetypes of the perfect spender and the world traveler and the rewards redeemer.

And I walk through how to live with a debit card. Sisphus is in there. He's an example in that >> chapter, I believe. >> I love that.

>> I think it's a great I like I like the reference cuz that's an exa. I look at that guy pushing the rock up the hill with his 16 credit cards figuring out which one to utilize based on rotating cash back, which by the way is for like restaurants and entertainment, which is the number one area they know you're going to overspend on. That's right. But I got 5%.

money, Jade. I flew home for free, Jade.

I don't pay for that. >> But you spent double on those Taylor Swift tickets because you knew you were putting it on a credit card.

>> But I get an Uber credit, Jade, if I get my >> double. You made a bigger tip at the restaurant. You got a second drink at the restaurant. >> $700 annual fee for the pleasure of using that card.

>> Wow. >> Oh, but it's thick metal. It's really cool >> when people put it down. Have you ever been out to dinner with friends that have credit cards and they you can tell they have like a pride or like a look at this >> when they put it down?

>> I I actually told Fairwind's Credit Union cuz they have the Ramsey co-branded card. I was like, "Will you guys make a me like a real thick metal card just to troll the credit cards out there so I can be like, "Yo, check this out. It's called money." >> You want to know what what you're saying though is the deeper part of this.

the hard-earned money that I have confident in handling the money that I've earned it is enough for me. I don't need to move a little bit over here and spend a little bit over here on this credit card and get the points over here. It's just >> when your rewards can't tempt me. I am invincible. I have risen above the system. >> Yes, I'm outside of the matrix. And I think that is just a better way to live.

It's not that I'm better than you. It's just that my life is more peaceful. So, you get to choose. And uh hang on line, Jonah. We're going to send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke, specifically the credit cards chapter. Read that.

Send me a message and let me know if you've changed your mind.

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Jade. Next to me is George Camel. We've got Logan on the line from Orlando, Florida. Hey, Logan. How can we help you today? Hey, so I was wondering uh my

grandmother has a property and she's

going to sell it and she gave me an opportunity to get it for less than it's worth. And I'm $50,000

in car debt. I live at home right now,

so I don't have many bills >> just that.

>> Yeah. Other than that, yeah.

>> Okay. So that's the only debt. Just the $50,000 car payment. Is there anything else? Student loans, credit cards, personal loans, anything like that?

>> Nothing. >> How much money do you have saved?

>> Uh about $20,000.

>> Okay. >> And how much do you make

>> including side jobs? And my actual job,

it's around 90.

>> All right. You're making 90.

>> All right. And what's this deal with grandma? Why is she willing to give you a deal?

Where? Where is she going? >> I guess just because she loves her grandson. I don't know. Just uh she she

likes the property. It's 10 acres. Uh grandpa died, so it's just too much for her to take care of. And she doesn't necessarily want to get rid of it, but it's just too much for her. So, I think she'd give me a deal just to kind of not fully get rid of it.

>> You think she would or she told you she would? >> No, she Yeah, she will.

>> I'm just saying I think that's the reasoning. >> Okay. Tell me what the market value is and what type of deal she's giving you.

Tell me the real numbers.

>> So, I would get it for 350,000 and it's

probably worth 5 to 600,000.

>> Wow. Okay. And do you like the house? Do you love it?

>> Oh, I love it. You know, it's got a warm place in my heart.

>> Okay. >> Sentimental value. >> That's sweet. >> Right. But if this wasn't grandma's house, it was just on the market. Would it be something you'd be like, "Oh, >> it's on the market for this price. For this price, I would jump right on it." >> So, here's the thing. You're not there yet. You're not ready financially to buy it for a couple of different reasons.

How urgent is this? Or is this a deal that can stick around for maybe the next 12 to 18 months?

Well, I know she's ready to be done with the maintenance and everything, so I don't think it's necessarily like she's ready to move tomorrow, but I think

she's she's ready. It might she might be

able to hold off for the next 12 months >> cuz you've got you've got a couple of things that you some ducks you need to get in a row. Number one, we've got to either pay off this car or get it sold because we don't want to go into home ownership while we're still in debt because then it makes it very, very tight. >> Dan, this thing is over half your income, so it needs to be gone. What is this thing? What kind of vehicle?

>> It's a Jeep Gladiator.

>> And how old are you?

>> I'm 22. >> And it's brand new.

>> It I bought it brand new. Yes.

>> What's it worth today if you went and sold it? So, I went to the dealer yesterday to see what they would give me. They told me they'd give me 31 for it.

>> Well, the dealer is the worst place to sell a car known to man. So, let's not go there cuz they're trying to make a profit. >> Just So, I Yeah. So, I looked up just ones that people are selling around me and they're going for around 34.

So, it's not too much. >> Do you roll over negative equity? How are you so underwater? >> I did. I did. Uh, >> I bought a truck during CO.

>> Okay. Well, here's the here's how to get out of this thing. Let's say you sold it for 34. That means that you are 16 grand

underwater. Luckily, you got 20 grand sitting there in savings. So, that'll cover the amount you're underwater, leaving with a few grand to get you a beater car for now to get you from A to B. >> Right. >> Okay. >> Now, what's your payment and insurance?

Uh man, my payment is um 850, but but

I'm paying 300 a week because I was just

trying to get it down.

So, I've been paying 300 a week and it's 850 and

I pay my dad like

he doesn't really charge me for insurance, but every once in a while I'll give him like four or 500 bucks

just to Okay. you know, but we can easily say it's a,000 bucks plus for this payment plus insurance and all of that. So, that's what you would free up >> to then start saving up an emergency fund followed by a down payment >> cuz if you really want this house and grandma's willing to wait, then I would act like this is urgent and I would get rid of the stupid car that's going down in value when you're telling me that you want to be a homeowner >> and and and let me give you some real numbers.

And this is not intended to bust your bubble. This is just intended to give you a dose of reality because what you're seeing right now is a deal and you're only seeing the deal, but you're not seeing the reality of what can I actually afford.

Okay, so the real numbers on this and and I'm just using our Ramsay Solutions mortgage calculator. I put in, let's say she sells you the thing for $350,000, and let's say it's on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage, because that's what we'd suggest around here. And right now, I'm seeing that the weekly uh average 15-year fixed rate mortgage is about 5.64%. So, I put that in here. You would

need to put about 54% down in order to get this thing close to 25% of your take-home pay, which is where we like your mortgage payment to sit. 25% and that's everything. That's HOA, taxes, insurance. We want no more than 25% of your take home. >> You're talking like 180 grand down.

>> Uh 190. >> Yeah. >> And it's still tight for you. That puts you at around 1,800 a month. And honestly, I'd like you to be closer to 1,500 a month.

So that's me being your your your buddy here and telling you the truth that even with you going balls to the wall like George said and selling the car and doing all those things which you need to do anyway by the way, you still have a journey >> ahead of you, right? And we don't want you to be like Icorus flying too close to the sun on this thing. >> That's right. >> You know, >> and just because the offer is generous doesn't mean that this is a good deal that you can afford.

>> Right. So what should I be at for a car

payment? >> Zero. If if if okay, so if I get rid of

my truck, I pay the negative equity off and I buy a beater, right, for for how

long?

>> And then just stick it out with the beater. >> Stick it out with the beater while then saving up paying yourself that car payment of 500 to a,000 bucks a month.

Well, now you got 12 grand more at the end of 12 months to then upgradeing car.

>> So you sell the beater, take that profit and apply it along with your 12. Now you got a $16,000 car. And the key is you don't want anything with wheels and motors to add up to more than half your income, your sustainable income. So don't include the side jobs that you may drop. What is your actual full-time income? Let's say it's 70 grand. Well, then we want no more than 35 grand tied up with things in wheels and motors. >> Do you understand why, Logan?

Why we're saying all this?

>> Why we have these parameters?

>> Tell us tell us in your words why you're doing all this so we know you understand. Well, well, I'm thinking just uh so I'm not paycheck to paycheck

living and I'm out of debt before I go into a uh mortgage.

>> That's a big part of it. But the other part of it is what George is telling you to do with this vehicle. That's a long-term mindset. The mindset is I never I I never go into debt for cars again. I'm always going to use this method of saving up and upgrading for cash. And the reason for doing that is over time, you're going to have so much money at your disposal to be able to actually build wealth. We've said it before, George, and I'll say it again.

Really, the divide between being middle class and being actually wealthy is the car payment. That car payment, 700 bucks a month, 800 bucks. Many of you are over a,000. If you took that money and put it back into your pocket, maybe not all of it cuz you're stacking money for the next car, right? But even $600 or $700 additionally to be investing regularly, that is the ticket. That is the unlock to building wealth.

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All right, we've got Stacy who is joining us from Salt Lake City, Utah.

Stacy, how can we help out today?

>> Hi, Jade George. Thank you for taking the time to chat with me. I am wondering

if it's at all wise to give my

mother-in-law a certain amount of money every month just so that we don't keep

having her approach every month to give us money. Kind of basically just getting ahead of knowing that she'll need money

and just making it that she has it already and kind of avoiding that situation of being asked.

>> Oh boy. So, >> so we're going to direct deposit to her account just to avoid her having to talk to you.

>> Well, yeah, basically. Yeah. Like,

>> yeah, like not that I I know it's

stressful for both of us. I would assume at least where >> What's her attitude about it? >> She doesn't >> She um I mean, she doesn't act entitled to it by any means. She has six adult

children, five of which all have the same job. they're all in the same trade.

Um, most of them make above 100K a year.

So, like everyone's able to help her.

She doesn't have the legal ability to work in the country. >> Okay. >> Um, so she does live with my brother-in-law. He has he owns a home and she lives in um, so she doesn't have

a car payment. She doesn't have a housing payment or anything. Okay.

>> She does have a a teenager dependent.

>> Um, >> how long has she been in the States?

uh since she was 17, I think.

>> And she hasn't been able to work that whole time. >> The entire time?

>> I know. She did part of that time. And

then I think there's just been some >> I'm just confused who's been floating her lifestyle and income this whole time for decades.

>> Her children.

>> And has that has that changed now that you guys are fronting more of it?

>> Um I I think it's shifted. my she lived

with my husband for better part of a decade before I met him. Um and then she

moved in with her other son when he bought a house. >> Okay. >> And she kind of just >> So what is the current situation for how much each sibling's giving? Like what is her monthly income that you guys are supporting her with?

>> Um I I I'm not aware of anyone else giving her like us basically an allowance every month. She has been asking us for money consistently for about five months. It's about $800 every time. Um >> what is she using this money for?

>> It's medical bills is big ones which we were aware of cuz she had like medication like it's not just like oh we need it for >> does she have health insurance on her own? >> She does. She has Medicare.

>> Okay. >> Umation was a little different. >> How old is she? >> I think she's 56.

>> 56. And has she has she to your

knowledge has she tried to um get the correct visas to be able to work or try to appeal that or whatever it is. Has she been working on that or did she just give up on I mean I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in that area but I >> I'm just curious.

>> Yeah, she has. We're actually working on it right now. >> Okay. >> Um it sounds like it's just kind of something that takes a little longer than we had hoped.

>> Okay. It doesn't sound like there's much urgency on her part. I mean, she's got Bank of Stacy, so it's like, why do I have any urgency to go to work when I don't have any bills and someone provides my income? >> I I'm a little worried about that. Yeah.

I wonder, >> do you have the money? >> Like sometimes, >> Stacy? Like, how are you guys doing?

>> Yeah, we make great money. Um, I have an income and so does my husband together where you take about 13,000 home net.

>> Okay. And you guys don't have any debt?

>> Expenses? >> We have a little bit. I we just paid down a ton. So, we have like $11,000 of consumer debt left. >> Okay. >> Um so, that'll be gone in the next two months. And then we have a $488,000 mortgage still. >> 488.

>> Mhm. >> 80. And do you guys have any cash saved like liquid funds?

>> We do. We have 14,000 in um high yield

right now. Um and then we'll be getting tax refunds soon as well.

>> Okay. >> But yeah, 14. Okay.

>> Well, I know we can afford to. I guess >> you could you could be in a better situation. I will say that. I mean, the the the the the walls are not caving in on you, but I definitely would if you are going to put yourself in a situation where you're contributing to this monthly, and that's fine if you decide to do that. >> You've then got to get very diligent about making sure that this is not at a detriment to you um by by being very

intentional about what you guys have going on. And I mean, anybody who calls the show, I'm going to say, "Hey, you you got to get on the baby steps." And I think for you guys, paying off that $11,000 of debt and doing that today

because you've got the money there, right? >> Which leaves you with three grand, which is the reality of your situation is you have three grand to your name.

>> Okay? >> So, it feels good cuz you make a great income, but it is disappearing through a giant mortgage, supporting mom, whatever else shows up. And so I think you guys could do a better job of not making sure this money doesn't slip through your fingertips. And I think your husband needs to be aligned here. Is he wanting to continue to support mom at a certain level? >> Um I we just talked about it today actually because another situation came up which I'm calling. He does and I

brought up like it doesn't seem fair if she's asking us for the entire amount that she needs every month because she does have three other adult children.

>> And what's the entire amount? as my husband. >> Uh I mean right now it's another 800

for I think the last four months. Yeah.

800. >> That's the total amount that she needs, >> right? Yeah. >> And you guys have been giving her what?

Four or two or you've been giving her the entire 800 >> this month or this today? We did decide on 200 so that other siblings will help. The last three months we've given her the entire amount each time. So, it sounds like it sounds like there's a couple of things.

It sounds like the the six adult siblings need to get in a room or get get on a Zoom call and say, "Okay, here's the deal. Like, mom is going to need this money for the foreseeable future until this visa business gets worked out.

that we are not all scrambling every month to decide and putting her in this position and her putting herself in this pos like >> and she needs to be clear on what these new guard rails and boundaries are because if not it's just going to become a well I can get more out of them this month. No, instead go hey we're going to support you for 18 months and by then you need to be getting a job and then once you're retired we can figure that out later on in life but she could live another 40 years.

>> This is a long time and And I think that's the bigger part of this is somebody, and I'm not saying it's you because you're the in-law here, but somebody whose blood needs to be looking at this and going, "Okay, why can't she work? What is the visa that she needs that she can work? What do we need to do? Is it is and is anybody on top of this like it's their full-time job?" Because the truth of the matter is, of these six adults, you might know what they earn because you know their trade, but you don't know their financial situation.

month for some people might feel like, okay, we can swing that. But for for other families might feel like, hey, especially if they're let's pretend they have debt and they're trying to pay their debt off, right? So, um I want to

set the expectation that all these siblings may not contribute and you can't be salty with them if they don't >> because it truly is their choice and we don't know what's going on with their money. >> Yeah, that's Yeah, that's fair. you know. >> Yeah, that's kind of how I was feeling today when I was like, why is always us every month?

But you're right. Like they >> because you guys are willing and you've done it and therefore who who's she going to come back to? The hand that feeds her. >> Yeah.

>> So that's there in lies the problem.

not really generosity anymore. And therefore, you guys need to be more involved with her finances because if she blows this or she is going into debt, well then this is just a never- ending money pit. So, you guys need to be working on, hey, here's your budget. Here's how much is going to go towards bills, you know, to help support whatever the household.

Here's how much goes through insurance. Here's how much is fund money. And she needs to be on a budget if you're going to be handing her this check every month.

>> Mexico. >> Okay. Um, where do you guys live? Salt

Lake City. Okay. I was just thinking like I don't know this is crazy but I was like oh I wonder if she lived closer if she could cross the border and work and then come like if she lived >> like you know Southern California. I don't know I my brain was trying to solve for the here and now.

But I that that opens a whole can of worms. But anyway >> I would just get clarity. I think we need to have a come to Jesus conversation with just the siblings. You don't need to be involved.

That's it's up to them to figure out. Then your husband comes back to you to go hey what do you think about this situation?

>> Yeah. Yep.

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Okay. Rebecca is joining us from Orlando, Florida. Rebecca, how can George and I help today?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Hey, so my husband and I are we're just starting the baby steps. We're working on paying off debt. We have about $50,000 in debt. Um some student loans,

some credit card and our household income is around 135. So, we're 32 and

we're kind of behind on the game. We haven't started investing or saving towards retirement. >> Okay. Um, and we have two young boys and we're contemplating having a third.

>> We would love them any closer in age.

So, we're thinking about getting to the Megan this year. And, uh, I think it's important to know I'm a 1099 contractor, so I wouldn't be getting paid for maternity leave if we chose to have a third and with three littles even to contemplating would it make sense for me to stay at home? And so the question is, is it wise to kind of say all done to having more babies for the sake of where we're at currently financially?

>> Um, I don't think that's the case, but I do think that it would behoove you both to really put real numbers on paper and create a timeline to see what's actually possible within the parameters that you guys uh say you want this to fall into,

right? you get the values of saying, "Okay, if if I have a third child, do I

want to stay at home? And if so, what's that going to cost, you know, and and let's run out the real numbers before we just take this thing off the table?" Cuz I'm a fan of families. I I love families and I love >> mamas being able to have, you know, as many babies as as they want to and and making a way to afford that. So, >> um, where you are right now, you're 32

years old, you've got the $50,000 of debt. Um, is there any money saved up anywhere?

>> Yeah, so in our savings, we probably have eight or so thousand.

>> Say that again, please. >> We have we probably have about $8,000 saved a regular savings account.

>> Okay. 8K saved. And you guys are bringing in what? 8,000 a month. Is that is that about right?

>> Yeah, more or less. Okay.

>> How much can you throw at your debt every month after all of your bills are paid?

So, one of our sons has some medical

stuff that uh kind of eats up a little bit of our margin. Um, but I'd say it's safe to say probably like six or $700 if

we're if we're tight.

>> So, you your bills are costing you about

over seven grand right now per month.

>> I mean, I think if we're >> What's your mortgage payment? So, so we're renting. It's $2,600 a month.

>> Rebecca, speak directly into your phone.

Tell us again what's your what's your rent payment? >> Oh, I'm so sorry. >> That's okay. >> I said our mortgage or our rent payment is $2,500.

>> 2500. Okay.

>> Yes. Can you hear me? Okay. >> Uh, yes. Yes, ma'am. 25 is a little over. So, there's a little bit there that's eating into there. Um, what else majorly is going on that is

because your kids are not in daycare right now or are they?

>> Right. No, we we don't have to pay for child care thankfully. Then we have some family help. And so right now um we have

our just the student loan payments which

um is about 500 a month. I don't have all the numbers right in front of me, but um we have >> Yeah, I feel like and you know, it obviously could be a budgeting thing, too, but I feel like um >> part in this. >> I think that there's some intentionality that we can really really tighten up.

Are you guys using every dollar?

>> We just got Financial Peace University downloaded the app. We haven't started We haven't started it structurally yet.

>> Okay. I think that's going to be an unlucky find out that you can live on way less and carve out way more margin.

Cuz here's the here's why I was asking.

If you can throw, let's say, two grand a month at the debt, you're done in two years. >> If you can throw more at it, you're done even faster. And so what I'm trying to do is get you guys debtree as soon as possible with an emergency fund. Not that you have to wait for that to have the next baby, but if you're saying, "Hey, my goal is to stay home potentially." Well, if you can't make the current income work, how are we going to make less income work?

So, we've got to figure this out. If it's true that you really want to have this kid, if that's the priority, then we need to make sacrifices to make that a reality. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, we have um 65 I'm sorry, 60 is

coming from me. I work part-time right now. >> Um and then 75 from my husband.

>> Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, you're not wrong. It's cutting it in half. Um, so

the the main things that I >> those things we feel >> Go ahead.

>> I was just going to say, you know, I feel like if we already had a there, we would just be looking at how do we make this work. But now that we're kind of in this decision period, it's we don't want to be unwise and impulsive. You know, >> the biggest the biggest area where I see it playing out in a potentially very stressful way is your cost of housing.

So right now you're paying 2500. It's more than 25% of your take-home and if

you go down to >> 4500 take-home pay for example.

>> Exactly. That's when you're going to be really strapped. It's going to be I mean darn near impossible to accomplish anything like that. >> So there's another sacrifices.

We need to change where we live if we want to make this a reality. So that's where I go. Go you can go do a fake budget tonight just using his income >> just to see where things would fall. And even you can go, okay, let's say we're debt free.

Let's take out those debt payments. It's still going to be tight and really here's how much house we can afford. Then you can start to map out, you know, what is realistic for your situation. >> Mhm.

Now, right now, your your current kids that you're not paying for child care.

longer have access to that?

>> Sure. So, my uh my in-laws and then my

mom has said they'd come and and watch the boys and so they're in their 70s and we're just thinking with a third it may

be a lot for them. Um my kids right now are seven months old and two >> well with the debt paid off if you put one in daycare you might be able to swing that and continue to work. So, you keep the two with the family members and then decide which one would go to daycare and without debt payments. You know, you freed up $500 in student loans. Who knows how much from the credit cards, right? And now maybe you can swing that and by then who how old's your oldest?

>> He's two. He finds Tennessee.

>> Okay. So, kindergarten for you is going to be kind of like the the unlock moment when one of them can go off to school, >> right? So, I do think that this is possible. I think you've just got to get creative on what it looks like and get

so so intentional now before you're pregnant. Now is the time where you guys are working, working day and night, like Michael Jackson said, all the money, right? Because you guys need to pay off this debt so quickly. You need to start saving for um 3 to six months of expenses and potentially a down payment down the line.

>> Great. Thanks. Okay. No, that that is

helpful. Um, yeah, because I just feel like the third changes a lot uh in terms of my income and just how we, you know,

our lifestyle. >> Absolutely. >> And that's the thing. If you want to be a stay-at-home mom with three kids, your lifestyle is going to look very different and you might need to live further out where rent is 1,500 instead of treating 500.

And so there's just trade-offs all the way around. But you'll have the most flexibility and options if you become debtree and you have the emergency fund and hopefully your husband has a a ceiling, you know, a bigger ceiling for his income. He can start making more. Then life will get a little more comfortable.

But right now, the saving grace is these parents and in-laws who are willing to watch the babies.

>> Oh, it'd be tough. But what I really love about um her calling in is this

idea of like family planning, like thinking thinking about what you want to do, laying out the numbers, laying out a timeline, and making a plan and not just kind of going into it blindly cuz like I said, I love babies. I love families, but there are things that we can do to make that a better situation for all

involved. >> Surprise. I always love people like it was a huge surprise. I'm like, "Well, I don't know if you were in science class, but shouldn't be a whole lot of surprises there. You're not Mary in the Bible here." >> I mean, sometimes it happens. George like slips past the goal. You know what I'm saying? Just accidents happen.

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All right, we've got John who's in New York City, Florida. Is there a New York City, Florida? I don't think that's right. Where are you at, John? >> New York City. New York City, New York.

>> That's what I thought. I was like, one of these is is correct. The other one is not. Well, we're glad to have you. How can we help you today?

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Um, my wife and I purchased a short-term rental um, in

October of 2024 and uh, at the advice of

a tax strategist that we hired. Um, and

we're bleeding 2500 to three grand a month in this short-term rental.

>> Okay. >> Um, and I I own a business. My wife's a

full-time nurse and uh, we get taxed heavily. Obviously, the business does.

And that's why I enlisted with a tax strategist to understand, you know, options, you know, as far as building generational wealth and how to do that.

And that's when we got into the short-term rental. And, you know, we got bonus depreciation. So, that was nice.

We, you know, we we were able to write off the federal taxes and stuff, but bleeding 2500 to three grand a month is not doesn't leave a very good taste in my mouth. >> You might as well pay that to the government in taxes at that point. If you're just going to bleed it, >> like, I might as well not even >> You're either giving it to a lender or to the IRS. Pick your poison.

>> Correct. Correct. So, my my real main

question is, you know what?

I'm really, it's hard for me to trust people now because of how, you know, this this leaves sour taste in my mouth and I just need really good direction.

You know, what do we do with our money to help build generational wealth? Um, to find properties that cash flow. What should my next steps be? You know, company this year, but I'm nervous. Um, we own a uh a print company.

>> Okay. Where did the real estate come into play? Because these are two different goals of I want to build wealth but also I want to be a real estate guru and leverage a bunch of debt. >> Correct. The real estate came into play because of the taxes we were we were getting um we're getting heavily taxiously. >> Would you agree that getting into real estate just for tax purposes is not a

good idea.

>> My wife she said true. You're losing 36 grand a year because of the tax strategist saying, "Dude, you want to save on taxes, just leverage an Airbnb.

It'll be great." >> Well, I think you thought you were going to build wealth, too. I think you thought you were going to use that as a wealth building vehicle as well, not just a tax shelter. >> The goal obviously is wealth building for gen, you know, generational wealth.

>> What went south? What went south with the short-term? Was it the location? Did you not get the rents you thought you were going to? Like, what happened?

>> Well, I think it's our In all honesty, I think it's our property manager. Um, so our realer is also our property manager.

And when I met with him, I'm pretty upfront. I said, you know, listen, I said, I just need to know what our worst case scenario might be with this property. And he said, your worst case scenario is you're going to be out $1,000 a month. I said, good. Let's go.

We're good. That that sold. >> So, you knew that from the jump.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. >> And I was fine with the thousand. I I knew it wasn't going to cash flow well, but I also was using the benefits of, you know, how much we were going to save on taxes and then also building generational wealth and making this kind of a yearly thing. we wanted to do. Um, >> okay. So, it just nothing was looking good. >> So, what would this property sell for?

>> Property management company. Um, a million35. It's worth according to Zillow million65.

Um, we also own a home our our personal

residence. We bought that for 820. It's worth about 965.

Um, >> what's left on that mortgage?

>> That one 6 617.

>> Okay. Okay. And what's the mortgage on the short-term rental?

>> That's about 820.

>> Okay. So, you got, let's call it 150 grand in equity on the short-term rental you could get out, >> correct? What other debt do you have? >> In all, again, obviously, I got to pay um we did do a loan where there's a prepayment penalty. So, we got a 5year prepayment penalty, which goes down every year. >> Um so, we'd have to eat that obviously.

>> What kind of loan is it? Something >> is it called a DSCR loan?

>> Okay. What other debt do you guys have outside of the two mortgages?

>> Truly, my wife's got a car. It's about 600 a month. Business pays my car. Um,

we have 0% credit cards that aren't due till and next year total about 37 between both of us. 37K. Um, >> you are a credit card company's dream.

>> I'm sorry. >> You're a credit card company's dream.

>> I know. >> Cuz guess what's going to happen when you can't pony up 37 grand out of nowhere to pay the balance? Well, now that's let me give you the full full picture. I have 160 sitting in the bank.

Um, so and my wife has Do you have anything? I think she's Yeah, maybe 10 grand a wife. Um, but between both of us 170. >> Okay. >> Mark I already know. I know it's going to pay off that 0% credit. >> How much? >> Okay. Well, great. How much uh what's

the total amount of your wife's vehicle? Not the monthly payment, the total amount.

>> Total amount. It's a lease.

>> Oh, it's a lease. And what about you?

>> My car's paid through the business. It's uh 524 a month. It's a super rout back.

>> How much is the debt though? What's the total debt?

>> Um I owe it's it's paid. It'll be done at the end of this year and then I I either will lease another car. >> What's the total debt?

>> Don't be scared. >> I apologize. >> Don't be scared. >> Um so what's 524 times? What's the

amount that you owe on your car? How much do you owe? >> Okay. Yeah, it's we got we owe on my car

is going to be uh three grand.

>> That's it. That's all you have left.

>> Yeah, cuz it's a lease. So, it's 3,000.

>> Oh, yours is a lease, too. Okay. So, >> goodness gracious. These are the nicest cars known to man. What are you guys driving? 600 bucks a month for a lease.

>> When's the lease up? When's the lease up >> on your lease is up? The end of the year. We're both We're both the end of the year. >> Okay. Okay. And are you planning on buying them out or what are you what are you thinking here?

>> I don't know to be totally honest. I haven't thought about it. >> Okay. So, we're going to help we're going to help you think through that. What I want you to take away right now, John, is you're kind of like a happy golucky guy and and you're fun to talk to, but I'm concerned about your situation greatly. Um, you got a lot going on. And the good thing is I think

a couple of moves could get you on just a couple of small tweaks could get you on really, really solid footing. But you'll have to agree with George and I that you're in a dire situation in order to actually do this cuz I feel like you kind of think it's not that bad. >> You guys have out earned your stupidity for a long time >> and you can continue doing that. I just think you will you vehemently disagree with everything we're going to throw at you.

So, I don't even want to waste the time.

I would sell the short-term rental, walk away with whatever money you can get, take your 160, pay off all of your consumer debt, >> and then anything remaining, it becomes emergency fund plus paying down the mortgage.

>> Gotcha. >> But leveraging the debt priorities, paying down our primary res, >> paying down everything. Pay down all the consumer debt first. Get an emergency fund. Focus on paying off your primary mortgage. Right now, you're just trying to accumulate stuff and assets and car

leases. And we're trying to simplify your life to where you get to keep what you take home >> regardless of how much you pay in taxes.

I'd rather you pay what you owe in taxes and not have all the stress in your life and go that sucks. I had to pay the IRS more than I thought. >> But it's it's a nothing burger if you had no debt. >> You figured me out perfectly cuz I I my wife would tell you I I do stress out a lot about it. It's not worth it.

>> It's it's very stressful. It's stressful for me just to listen to it. So I can only imagine how you feel, you know, when you lay your head on your pillow at night. But think about what George just said. You got $170,000 cash. Okay, we

pay off the credit cards. That leaves us with around 130 or so. You decide whether or not you're going to buy out these leases. Do you know what the buyout is for each of them?

>> I don't I think it's around 20 25 maybe if I'm speaking correctly. For each >> Would you guys want to keep those cars?

>> I I'd have to convince my wife, but I I don't care. >> But okay, let's say you did.

you want to keep your car, >> she doesn't care. >> Okay. So, let's say you spend $40,000 and you buy out these leases. Now, you're at 90. You've got $90,000 sitting

there after you've gotten out of these leases, after you've paid off some credit card debt. Is there anything else that we need to know of that needs to be paid off?

>> Um, no. I just gave you all the all that

we have. That's it. >> Okay. So, now you've got some actual cash. You sell the short-term rental because did I hear you say you bought it for 1.3 and it's worth 1.6.

No, no, no. A million35 and it's according to Zillow, it's worth a million65 now. >> Okay. A million. Okay. >> So, you'll probably take a little loss on that, but you'll gain three grand back in your life from not bleeding. And so, that's where I'm going. This is worth it. Don't have the sunk cost fallacy. It sounded like you didn't want to sell this Airbnb, though, this short-term rental.

>> I mean, I'll be honest with you. I do love the house. I wish, you know, my wife and I would love to be in Florida one day. I'd love to be in the house, but if it's if it's going to cause me stress every day, I'd rather do the smart thing than be than the uh the future, you know, goal thing.

>> And and let's let's talk about the why behind it because I think you had I like what you were thinking about, which is what are ways that I can build wealth for my family. I think that that's something that uh we all need to be doing as as parents and and as spouses.

But the way to do that, we did the largest study of millionaires and the large the best way to do that is to have a debt-free lifestyle, a budgeted lifestyle, a lifestyle that values having the right insuranceances, saving for emergencies, right? And then investing in your 401k regularly. That's how millionaires are built. They invest in their 401k regularly.

Well, welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Again, I'm Jade if you're just joining us. And we have George Camel taking calls from Brandy who's in Huntsville, Alabama. Brandy, you are on the line.

How can George and I help you today? >> Hi guys. I have an interesting situation for you that we need help with. Um, my husband and I have been married 10 years, but when we got married, we had a backyard wedding.

It was a like a $3,500 wedding. It was just close family, friends, and we did not buy wedding rings.

and buy wedding rings on our 10th anniversary. And that is coming up. So,

we um, and there's there's more story to that, of course, like I mean, he proposed four times. It's me. I bring the George to the relationship and all the fun. >> You're the funny daddy.

>> I am the frugal one, I guess. And he's a free spirit, you know. >> But you you said no to his proposal like three other times.

>> No, I laughed hysterically the first time and then the second time I was like, I'm really not good at being married. I mean, we've been married, like I said, 10 years. That's like an Olympic gold medal for me. So, um, >> he deserves a medal for persistence. The guy just kept getting rejected time after time. >> His face. Wow. That's brutal.

>> He is really amazing. He is. And he's a great spouse. And I mean, we've made it right so far. So, and we have >> You both seem surprised, which I I find entertaining. You're both We both can't believe we're here. Okay. >> Well, congrats on the 10 years. And I love the idea of finally, you know, getting rings and and having a ceremony.

But there's probably a catch here. So, tell me, what is it? Well, we're trying to buy rings and go on a honeymoon.

We're not going to have a ceremony. We've already done that. But we are in the middle. >> Yes. And we are in the middle of baby step two. We've paid off um $63,000

worth of debt as of yesterday within the last 12 months.

>> Way to go. >> We Right. And we have 49,000 to go. So,

we were expecting to come to you guys for our debtree scream next spring.

>> Okay. And we want to delay by a month because my entire paycheck, like my base salary, I own my own business. He works for the state, but my entire base salary goes to paying debt every month. So, I get my paycheck and then I give it to other people and it hurts my feelings, right? So, I am super motivated to get finished, but we both feel that we need a break in order to celebrate this milestone for us. >> And and it only sets you back by one month. Is that what you're saying?

>> Yeah, it would pause the baby steps by one month. So, and we don't we don't know budgets. We haven't been shopping for rings because I'm terrified to go in there. I think I'm going to have sticker shock and see. >> So then I I don't think you know how much it's going to set you back because you don't know the numbers, right?

>> Well, we were thinking around $1,000 on rings total and then we would spend around 3,200 on a trip and we wanted to kind of set the budget at what we normally would pay towards debt a month.

So about 4,000.

>> Yeah, between four and five.

>> Okay. Um and you're saying if you continued this path, you could be debtree in what, nine or 10 months? I'm

probably around 12 because I work in education field. So I am home, we have six children. I'm home with our youngest children and there there are many of them. Um but I'm home with them in the summer. So I don't have as much income in the summer and we plan for that because I own my own business. So it's not a huge loss but we don't have as much of a margin during those two months. >> Got it. >> Understood. Um, I I'm going to tell you,

and again, this could be controversial, but I think that I would do this. Um, it's a one-mon setback and it's a milestone of 10 years. And it's actually funny that you're calling in because I called in to the Ramsay Show long before I worked here with the same question.

Uh, Sam and I had paid off a major portion of our debt. You've paid off more than half. I think we had paid off more than half of ours. and I we wanted to do a 10-year anniversary and it was going to set us back a couple of months.

Uh but we did it and Dave said that he would do it and we told him the budget and so I will now tell you the same thing because I think it's a really important thing and I think it's one of those things that comes around >> obviously every 10 years and this is your 10 year mark. I think the budget is reasonable and I like the fact that it's only a monthlong thing. It's it's potentially only sets you back a month.

And what I actually think will end up happening is if you wanted to kick it into high gear after this, you could probably make up the time by picking up, you know, cutting back here and there, picking up side hustles. Who knows?

You'll, you know, if if friends and family find out about this, you might get some monetary gifts. I don't know.

But I think things can happen that you really don't even have to sacrifice the month.

>> Okay. Yeah. And and I am I have a business that's doing very well. that's growing as time goes along. So, it will increase over time and also he's getting promotions at his job. So, we know that it will go up um eventually. That may take a while, right? But we really want to pause and celebrate.

>> So, you got married in the courthouse, no rings.

>> We had a backyard ceremony at at our house. Um and it was beautiful. It's creek. We have a creek in the backyard. It was a beautiful ceremony, but it was just close friends and family. Mhm. >> So, you guys have anything on your fingers right now?

>> No, we don't. >> You couldn't have got a silicone band off Amazon for like $10.

>> Well, he wears he I think he wears a silicone band and he has another band that he really likes and I feel I feel bad. I mean, it took me two years to change my name. Maybe I have a little bit of a commitment problem, but I really I love him. We our marriage is great and I think it's time for me to put a ringer on.

>> You want to know what? Okay, I'm going to go one deeper for you. And now this is your life. Do what you want.

I almost And I'll just be honest.

feel the money is better spent, and this is just me in comparison to the baby steps, I feel like the ring would be the thing that I'd want to spend more money on cuz you've never had one versus the honeymoon. That's just me. Um, what do I

know, George? What do you think? What do you think about the whole thing? You may not agree with me. >> Well, again, Brandy, you told you told me ahead of time, I'm the fuddy duddy frugal guy, and I love to dangle the carrot. I want to earn it. You I want to eat my vegetables before I get dessert.

And so personally, I'm gonna go, you know what? We're already in our 11th year of marriage. We're gonna celebrate before we're done with year 11. And that will put some onus on me to put some urgency on this and bust it to get this knocked out as fast as possible so that I can enjoy this.

>> Wait, it's not going to happen at the 10 year point. Is you're already past 10 years? >> No, we will be 10 years um coming up in the fall.

And he's like, "Absolutely not." We had an agreement. >> Well, wait a second. Wait, wait, wait a minute. I'm going to roll mine back a little bit because I thought that the whole point was we're doing it on the 10year anniversary, but this is not on the 10 year anniversary.

>> You're not doing it on the 10 year.

>> At the 10 year anniversary, we were that was when we planned on doing the ring and going on the trip, >> right? Can I be honest, Brandy? Here's what bothers me. You guys have been quote unquote planning this for 10 years and yet made zero actions to get us

here. You know what I mean? Like what happened over 10 years where you guys went, "Yeah, we said that, but we don't really believe it." And now all of a sudden it's an emergency. That's a good point. You know what I mean? What happened? >> Well, it's not an emergency. We did take our our savings that we put back for it and put it on our debt. >> Why aren't you in a better place financially than you were 10 years ago when you guys were broke?

>> Oh, well, you probably weren't thinking about it. >> A better place. >> Or were you? >> I'm sorry. >> Were you thinking about this 10 years ago? Probably not. Or were you?

>> Yeah, we agreed to do it when we got married. That was what we said at the time. >> That's what I'm wondering agreement.

>> If I had a 10year horizon to plan for this thing I knew was coming, I would make sure I was going to get there. And so that's where I'm trying to figure out where you guys went backwards, got into a hundred plus thousand consumer debt, which you guys are crushing it. I'm really proud of you. I'm not trying to knock you. I'm just trying to get to the mindset to make sure we've actually changed our behavior that got us here.

George makes an interesting point.

Listen, I will say this. If you told me it's a once in a-lifetime thing, it's 10 years and you were doing it on the 10 year anniversary, I'm like, "Yes, 10 years." But if you're telling me we're doing it on our 10-year anniversary and the plan was already do it to do it at year 11, it takes the cache. It's got no cache at that point. >> Yeah.

I mean, you're not going to regret it if you do it and you guys will still become debtree whether it's in May of 2020.

>> That's what I'm saying. Everything feels arbitrary cuz clearly our planning has not gone to plan.

>> I don't know.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Grace in Nebraska. My husband and I are about to pay off our last debt, which is a credit card, but I've read that doing this will lower our credit scores a lot. Should we slow down our payoff schedule or knock it out and let our credit score go down?

What a what a hilarious question. Which just points to the stupidity of the credit score. Number one, the confusion of it. >> There's confusion.

>> And number two, the if I do the thing I know is financially smart, I will be penalized. Well, I think a lot of people don't realize. Yeah, I don't think they know the truth, George. So, enlighten us.

>> Well, number one, a credit score is based off several factors. They're all weighted differently. How much debt? How long have you had the debt?

What's the types of debt? The variety, all of that, any new debts.

your debt will not lower your score, especially in the long term. Now, if you closed all the accounts, it might take a a dip because they like to see the open accounts. You know, the longer you've had them open, the better and all that.

But I would never say slow down your payoff schedule in case your score takes a hit cuz whatever hit does happen, it's going to be minimal and it's going to be temporary. Well, and you have to ask yourself the the long-term question on this is why are you doing this to begin with? because most of us out here, if

we're paying off our debt, we're usually doing it with a greater um intention in mind. And over here at Ramsey, the whole thought is you can't solve a problem while simultaneously creating it. So, if debt is the problem, if it is the the barrier to you building wealth, then what we say is, okay, then I I no longer borrow money anymore. And so me paying off my debt is essentially um equal with

me saying and I no longer care about credit because I no longer am going to borrow money. So they they're they're kind of synonymous. So my question to Grace would be what's the point of paying off the debt if if you plan on utilizing your credit score in the future, which means you would be borrowing on more debt. And by the way, there are a lot of people who don't carry any debt and still have a credit score.

They have open credit card accounts and they pay it off every month. I know those people exist because they always tell me how proud of themselves they are for paying off their balance every month and they have an 830 credit score and all of that. So, Grace, the real question is what kind of future are you looking for? Are you looking for a future where you keep taking on more debt and trying to pay it off perfectly to appease the credit score of gods?

Or do you just want to go, you know what, I'm done. We're going to cut up the card, close the accounts, 6 to 12 months later, your credit score will become indeterminable. That's what happened to me. Now, if you have a mortgage, your score will stay up there and it'll stay good.

As long as you make on-time payments for any debts in your life, your score is going to be fine.

>> No, it's Yeah. And again, who cares?

It's not going to stop you from doing any of the things you want to do because you're living a life without debt. And I'll let me just say this. Uh when Sam and I were in baby step two and uh paying off debt, I was a little um late

to acquies the credit card. It it took me some time to feel like I could let go of that. But what got me is I hated

paying it off every month cuz we'd spend a little bit on it and then pay it off and spend a little bit. I just got to the point where I was like, I don't like the feeling of this. Even if you're paying it off every month, it just doesn't feel good. It feels like >> you owe someone money. Exactly.

>> Cuz you do, even though you have the money to pay them, you still owe them for 30 days. And I think I just hated the feeling of that. >> And let me tell you, obviously people care about the credit score for a mortgage. That's the big one. That's understandable. >> But again, we've talked about it on the show. Getting a no score loan, manual underwriting. It's a very real possibility that, and Jade and I have both done it, and they didn't give it to us because we're Ramsay personalities.

They gave it to us because we had 12 months of rental history, on-time payments, tax returns, pay stubs,

>> manually underwrite it. >> If it makes you feel better, I did it before I was a Ramsey personality long before I even worked here. So, if that makes you feeling Yeah. Yeah. That's I'm

still not a big deal. Let's go to Kyle.

>> So, to answer your question, I would not slow down the payoff schedule, just become debtree. >> Go ahead and do it. And did you tell them it it usually takes six to 12 months? Yes. >> Okay. All right. Let's go to Kyle who's in Boston, Massachusetts. I'm sorry about your Celtics by the way. What's going on, Kyle?

>> Um, hey, so you you guys can hear me fine? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, so uh basically

we bought a house. Uh, I'm married and

uh my parents live with us in the house

and we had a a baby and we want to have

more. Uh but it it just seems like the

house is getting smaller and

um there's just a lot of tension it

feels like in the home. So, we want to know if it's possible

um and if we should look into it more to buy say a multif family like a three or four unit multif family and have my parents live in one of the units and rent the rest of them to to offset

um you know that other mortgage.

>> Where is this codependency coming from?

Um >> why can't they go rent their own place and you guys have your own place?

>> Right. So uh I'm an only child and I think what happened was most 90% of my

life was um them not doing well with

money and you know is that a me problem?

No. But in my mind, like with them

living with us, um I I know their

financial situation and I know they would be like borderline

homeless, I guess. >> But they make enough to rent cuz you said they'd be renting one of the units from you if you did a multif family.

>> Well, right. It would it would not be um

>> market as much as the average.

>> So basically, you're going to it's charity. you're going to let them rent for a couple hundred bucks and if the day comes where they can't pay because they have other bills or they have other priorities, they kind of know you're not going to evict them and put them on the street. >> How old are they?

>> Uh my dad's in his 70s and my mom is in

uh her 60s.

>> Are they both retired or they working still? >> Uh my dad's retired. My mom is going to retire in about a year.

>> And that's based on what?

because >> it's just what what she had told me.

>> Okay. But they don't have the money to actually retire. They're sort of needing you guys to float the gap,

>> right? >> When you say she's in her 60s, is she like 61 or is she like 69? How old is she? >> She is 65.

>> Okay. And same with your dad. Is he 70

or 7?

>> He's uh 75. They're about 10 years apart. 10 years apart. Um, and they don't bring in like what's their social security? You said you know their money. Tell tell us more about the money because that'll help us understand how dire this is because

it might not be as dire as maybe you stepping in and doing as much as you're trying to do.

>> Okay. Um, so for social security, I

don't which would be for for my dad, I don't really know what. I think it's probably maybe 1,500 to 2,000 something like that

a month. I mean, that's lying to me. I'm I'm not sure. >> Um, and so they they give us um we

wanted it to be a,000. They give us uh 600 a month towards the house that we're

living in now. >> What about your mom? What does she make?

She

probably makes I would guess around

maybe a little more than minimum wage.

>> Okay. Do you know what that looks like monthly for her?

>> Um >> I'm sorry. I thought that you knew the numbers. I I I thought I heard you say that you did know the numbers. Um >> we know that they can only afford 600 bucks a month for rent.

I grew up know like just knowing like how they were struggling financially.

>> And what do you attribute that to? Is it just lack of financial literacy? They or they never secured careers like where

what's happening there? Because what I'm seeing is something that seems like it's gone on for quite some time. And I'm just worried that you know if you if you want to put this on your plate and say this is just something I'm willing to fund, that's your bag and you're allowed to do that.

What I would not do is continue to take on more debt in order to fund that. I think that this is a cart that you've hitched your >> and you need to get out of mortgage. You need to refinance on your own. And if you can't qualify, that tells me you guys need to go somewhere you can afford and get them off of here. They might need to go to senior HUD housing. And that's the reality of the situation. If you can't have them living with you guys,

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All righty then. Jake is in Boston, Massachusetts again. What's going on, Jake?

Jake, are you there?

>> We lost him. >> All right. Well, so close. >> We can go to someone else. We can go to Tom in Hartford, Connecticut. Tom, are you there? Hey. Hey. How are you >> doing? Good. How can we help today?

>> Good. Good. So, just for context, I'm not sure how much you guys know, a little bit while back, about four months ago, I decided to exit my previous business. Um, that year we did about 500,000 uh in total revenue. Um, the

reason why I left um was just a partnership dynamic primarily for autonomy, control, independence, and really just alignment issues. Um, looking back, I'm about four months into my new endeavor, and you know, I'm in a

cleaning space now, like house cleaning, and I'm feeling a good amount of regret and kind of, did I make the right choice? Did I not make the right choice?

And kind of just unsure about things, um, looking back in my previous business. Um, and they're on track to do, you know, really, really well this year. Looking to get some guidance and, uh, your guys thoughts.

>> I mean, can you go back? Is it something that you could go back to if you wanted to, or are we just crying over a spilled milk? Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's uh it might be considered crying over spilled milk. I think that's one of the things that I'm trying to uh understand. Um but the biggest thing is uh I could go back because they're they're uh my current one of them was uh just like really one of my best friends and then other business partner was uh my cousin too.

So, and it was just like one of those kind of like missionary businesses, you know, that like I just love to my core.

And I think with the contrast of my current business, um I'm just kind of seeing things, you know, hindsight now.

Why did you what what you explained a little bit about why you left, but what was really the the straw that broke the camel's back? Give us a clear example of what was happening. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, there's seasons in the business where you're going once you're going daily from my perspective, um with the new seasons of the business, you start to pick up new responsibilities and you kind of transition into new roles, right?

And so as we started to transition into new roles, I looked at where I was heading um and then where my other business partners were heading and they were taking on more ownership responsibilities and I was taking on more employee responsibilities. And so in the long scheme in the long scheme of things I was like in my mind at that time like when we had that conversation I was like oh heard I'm just going to be an employee for the rest of the time here. Like that's not what I want.

And of course there's like a whole bunch of other details. Do you feel like you got too hotaded about it? Like were you too emotional about it? Is that >> No. I made that decision. Yeah. Like we

but like eight months before that I started to kind of have the thoughts of like understanding that leaving could be a possibility just kind of based on the trajectory of things >> and I started to to come like to be at acceptance with that. And when it when it became like crystal clear that like most likely my future responsibilities in the business would have just been a employee, it was very clear to me and I was like, "Okay, yeah." I felt very neutral about it.

>> Exactly. Exactly. So, I guess it's uh I

guess it's more so >> So, are you going back for money at that point of just like it's more sustainable and I enjoy the work? >> Yeah. Because like I think what the mistake that I made and I think David Ramsey was just in my uh thinking about it a lot in my mind uh was I kind of left without a financial plan. Like I left without u I'm very lucky like I'm in a spot where I don't have any debt.

I don't have any like um I have a good amount of savings. I'm getting an exit uh paycheck from the business for the equity that I did own. So I'm not in a bad spot.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So >> how much was the equity?

>> Equity was 50%. So you got 250 250,000.

>> No, no, no, no. So yeah, with how we base it, um the exit was the whole exit's going to be about 50,000 um like payout wise. >> Um >> um and then I have I have I have savings uh too that I currently have.

>> And and so I I just want to make sure I have this straight in my mind. So the reason you would go back is you miss the work. >> That's and it would be the employee stuff that you did not want to do before. you would now you've decided the thing I did not want to do before I actually now miss it >> those exact tasks and I would like to go back and do those exact tasks >> you know I think it's I think I made a mistake right and I think in when I first made the decision I wanted ownership responsibilities but now looking at it in hindsight like I understand how hard it is to make it in business right like before I had another person to rely on and another person to cope with and it was it was so much different you know and >> so you're willing to just go back as an employee not as an owner You don't want to buy in anymore.

You just want to be an employee. >> No, I think I but like No, I do I would want to go back as an owner. So, it's like it is different. But I >> Why wouldn't you just start your own business in that same area?

Like you've done it before. Why wouldn't >> why wouldn't you do it again?

>> It was a sports videography business.

>> Okay. So, if you started your own business today, what would you do >> left to your own devices?

So, I would buy a camera and then I would start filming free social media content for sports team. >> No, I'm saying so you'd want to go into sports videography if you could choose any job in the world today or any business.

>> I So, I I did start another business after that. I started a house cleaning.

>> Yeah. But you don't like that. So, I'm saying what do you actually want to do versus Well, you're like going back to your ex because it's comfortable. And I'm like, well, the same reasons you left your ex are the same reasons not going to work.

You're going to go back. you're going to become resentful as you see them grow the business while your income doesn't grow along with it while you're dealing with employees which is not your passion according to what you told us earlier. So I'm just worried we're going to make the same mistake twice. >> Was it a was it a friendly exit or was it drama-filled?

>> Yeah.

Yeah. Like we're we're good. Obviously, you know, it's like, you know, serious conversations. Uh but no, we're we're totally good. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 25.

>> Okay. And let I just want to play this out. So, it sound I I feel like you're

telling me kind of two stories and I just it might just be cuz we're talking and it's just a short period of time, but on the one hand, it kind of sounds like I made a rash decision. I I'm I made a bad choice and I want to go back on it, which we've all made mistakes.

We've said things we, you know, we've all done that, so I can understand that. But then another side of you makes it seem like, no, I I really put thought into this. This was a long time coming and I finally just pulled the trigger.

So >> yeah, >> tell me which one is it. Was it something that you really spent a lot a lot of time thinking about and you finally pulled the trigger or was it something that you feel like you had a rash of emotion and you you kind of spoke too soon and now you regret it?

Which one is it? >> Yeah. So I mean I don't I don't think it's like a I think it's a mixture of things. Um I don't know if that answers it correctly. >> It doesn't. And I and that's what I want to get to. I think you have to I don't think you have clarity.

>> And I don't think you can do anything until you have clarity. I think right now, and this is again, Tom, we've only chatted a few minutes, >> but it sounds like you went away from

this job in whatever capacity, you started your own thing, and it looks like you're looking back like a pillar of salt and you're seeing things over there popping off and doing really great, and you're feeling remorse because your current thing has not grown

to scale yet. And that's okay.

>> What I don't want you to go is look back at the thing that you said, "Nah, that's not for me." And just because it's doing well and doing amazing, suddenly uh you're questioning, let let me tell you a story. I played college volleyball and I played for two years and it wasn't it was a toxic situation for me and it was time it was time for me to stop playing.

And so the next year when I was invited back to the team, I said, "No, thank you. I'm not going to come back." That year they won championships and did really amazing. The two years I played, we had two losing seasons. For a moment, I was like, "Dang it." Like, "This is a regret.

that I made a bad choice, but I made the choice I needed to make for me cuz I was pursuing music and it was the right choice for me. Even though they were doing amazing, even though Do you see what I'm saying? Just because somebody else is doing great doesn't mean you did the wrong choice. And I just think you need to I'm not saying we're the same, but I am saying there's >> No, I get it.

>> Do you know what I mean? >> Um, >> yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

>> I don't think you have clarity either way.

If you hang on the line, we'll send you the get clear career assessment and that will really show you where your talent is, where your passion is, where the mission that you want to uh see impact in. All that's going to help you get clarity. And it may be, man, I really just want to I want to be the boss.

That's really the heart of it. No matter what the thing is. Or it might be sports. And now you can go work for someone else doing something, making more with a bigger ceiling. I just don't want you to jump back to the old comfortable thing just because you thought the grass was greener on the other side. >> Yeah, this is tough. This is tough.

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Our

Ramsey Show scripture and quote of the day, Proverbs 18:15 says, "The heart of discerning, the heart of discerning acquires knowledge, for the ears of the wise seek it out." Thomas Saul said, "You don't have to listen to anybody.

You can learn everything from your own personal experience. Of course, you will be at least 50 years old by that time.

By the time you know what you need to know at 25. Oo, that's deep, Thomas.

>> Okay. So, it was a negative cell. It >> It's a negative cell. >> It was the tone of Yeah, sure. You don't have to listen to anybody. You could learn on your own in 50 years or you could get wisdom from other people and learn it half the time. Yeah. >> Learn at 25. That's good.

>> Thomas, I think you could have said that in a cleaner way.

>> Well, you know, it's old timey. You got to make things more complex. >> I know. I had to really turn my brain off. Go to Mark Twain if you want simple want brevity. >> That's true. Jake is in Boston, Massachusetts. Jake, you're back. How can we help? >> I am back. Sorry about that.

>> That's all right.

>> I found you guys recently on social media, so figured I would would reach out. I guess let me give you some background information before I ask the question that might be helpful. >> Sure. >> So, I got 170K in debt. 150 of that is

student loans. 20 of it is for my truck.

Um, I got 150k saved right now just literally sitting in a bank account doing nothing. And I guess my overarching question is should I pay off my loans, call it in like in one check

or you know over the next few months or so or uh over the course of a few years

uh make the minimum payments and really don't even worry about it. Uh really just you know looking for some guidance at the minimum. You know >> I I missed what you said you have saved.

How much did you say you have saved?

>> 150. >> Cool. >> Okay. So, the whole amount of the student loans.

>> Uh, no. I mean, a little a little bit less. >> Um, you tell me what you think the benefit would be to kind of pedaling

this out and just making minimum payments. Tell me what you think the good part of that is. That way, it'll help me craft my answer for you.

>> Sure. I think mainly uh just being able to keep building the nest egg eventually, you know, buy a home hopefully soon. And um look, I know it's

bad to let debt pile up, but you know,

um I'm 25. I feel like I'm doing all right. The career is on a good track.

>> What do you do? Um >> I work in sales for, you know, in the fintech space. >> Oh, nice. So, how much are you making a year now? >> Uh I made 220 last year. I should land around like 250 this year if I I have all my quotas and everything. >> Way to go. So, let's just play out the scenario where you have 150 saved. You

knock out your student loans and you got the truck left. You knock that out in a maybe two 3 months. Is that realistic?

>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That that could be a realistic thing. >> Now, look where you are at. You freed up all of those payments, which if you added up all of the payments for the student loans and the truck, where are we at per month?

um close to like two grand call it.

>> Okay, so now we freed up two grand on top of our amazing income and we have no debt. Now we can stack up savings real quick for an emergency fund and then be investing 15% of our income.

>> Yeah. Which is pretty wild when I look at that. So, if you're talking about wealth building a nest egg, your best path is to get out of debt as fast as you can to free up your income, which is your greatest wealth building tool to then invest from 25 to 65. 40 years of

compound growth, making what you're making, even at 15% put away, you're going to be a multi multi multi multi-millionaire, doing nothing else.

>> And I just did some fun math because I love to see the number. I mean, you're 25 today. if we did this till 59 and a half, which is when you're likely going to want to get out some of that money.

I'm assuming you have zero in investments now, but I I I have a feeling that's not true. Uh but if you just started putting 15% away, uh that's

$15 million at age 60.

>> 30 million at 66 or 67.

>> Yeah, that's really good. >> That's what happens when you have the full power of your your income. And that's assuming I mean that's assuming you'll never get a raise. That's assuming you're not, you know what I'm saying, ever investing above 15%, which I'm sure that you will. So,

all of that to say, I think this is a pretty >> And then the other side of this is we don't know what life's going to throw at you. You're going to get married, you going to have a kid, will it be a job loss, a health scare? And so, we're you're sort of assuming that, yeah, I can float these payments just fine. I make great money.

You're very successful, especially at your age. And so, yeah, you could out earn your stupidity for a while and just hang on to debt, get more debt if you want, get a bigger truck, nicer car. That's the American way.

>> I think for me it's like, you know, I've saved this over the course of uh, you know, three, four years, and >> then I would have zero one day, you know, when you wake up. So, that that >> Well, you have zero. Now, let's let's do real >> on the balance sheet. If you were running a business, you would find that you are in the hole. >> Yeah, you're 20,000 in the hole right now. You don't have 150,000.

>> Yeah, right. >> It's assets minus liabilities. What you own minus what you owe. That's your net worth.

And I want to see your net worth as the scoreboard and not what's in a savings account while the interest piles up. Now, if you want to give the Naviant people some new furniture in their office building, let the executive team take a nice vacation, you can be a part of that if you want to support it. I'd rather see you build wealth instead, though. >> I think you'll do the right thing with that, Jake.

Not to say that money is just math. It there's more to it. There's the behavior, there's the numbers, and there's the emotions of it. And what Jake is getting at is the emotion of I

feel. >> You're right. And you work too hard to have 150 grand sitting around.

>> Yeah, that's right. And it and it's going to feel different when you wake up in the morning and that number that you're used to seeing sitting in your Ally or sitting in your Fair Winds account is not there. You're going to be like, >> but you're talking 18 months. He could save that back up if he had no payments in his life.

That's right. As a single 25-year-old, >> but what it is what's it what it's forcing him to do is feel the weight of his actual debt. As long as that 150,000 is sitting in savings, he doesn't really feel the weight of it. But once he transfers that over and actually pays it off, he's going to go, "Oh, that was a lot of debt.

I did need to get rid of that.

mature thing to do. A very mature thing to do to let yourself feel it, if you will. All right, George. Do you think we can get to Parker? Let's get to Parker.

>> Let's do it. All right, Parker on line three. We're up against the clock, my guy. So, let us have it.

>> Yes, sir. So, me and my wife are now

transitioning to single income. Um she's going to nursing school soon. We have about $11,900 in debt. Um, which is just my car and a

credit card. We paid off her car, a credit card, and some of my miscellaneous debt prior to going to single income. >> Mhm. >> Um, and we have around $11,000 in the saving. Um, trying to figure out how to navigate that debt um sooner than later and before she finishes nursing school.

>> What's stopping you from just knocking it out? I mean, next month you'll have enough saved up that you could knock out the debt and still have a,000 2,000 bucks left over, right?

>> Yes. So, I mean, the minimum payment on

the card, um, which I owe, 1500 on is

about $40, but it's at 24% interest. And

>> why does minimum payment?

>> Um, well, yeah, correct.

>> I mean, to your point, it's at a super high interest rate. You need to knock that thing out and get it out of your life. Right. >> They'd make the minimum payment a dollar if they could let all the money just pile up in interest.

>> Correct. >> So, I would just go, man, if you want to be free and you want to be able to survive on single income, having less payments in your life is better. Would you agree? >> Yes, sir. >> And you can build up that savings. How quickly? How much could you put away if you didn't have any of these payments in your life plus the margin you have currently with your income?

If we if we

probably around like 1,500 a month, probably a little bit more. >> Great. So now doing the math, we're going okay talking 6 months, 7 months.

>> Mhm. >> And you're back to where you are, but with no debt. >> Yes, sir.

>> And if you just keep it that way, you'll be able to survive off this income. What is your What is your income now as a house? Uh, so I make around 60. Um, I'm

in the military, so it's around 60.

>> Okay, great. So now we can do a budget based on our 60 grand with no payments and make the sacrifices needed so that she can go to nursing school and you can cash flow it. That's a really important part of this is making sure we're not going further into debt while trying to pay debt off. That's whack-a-ole.

>> Yeah. And and the the thing I want you to just remember, Parker, is wealthy people ha ask how much. Poor people ask how much per month. And that goes both ways.

So if you're so focused on, oh, the monthly payment is only $40. I can do that. You need to be focused on the entire balance of the debt. That's when again, you feel the weight of it and you feel the need to pay it off because you do.

All right, George, we had a great time hosting. Thanks for hanging out with us, guys.

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## 93. Is the American Dream Officially Dead? w/ @BenShapiro


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:18:16 |

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[Music]

you met St up trouble a long time there has now been created in the United States a permission structure for uselessness this sort of idea that you can take all the right actions and that there is no correlation between that and success is such a lie and it's a malicious lie my plan is to not retire

are you allowed to say that I said that one time I got just excoriated by people so I wasn't saying that you can never retire you have to be 9-year-old working in a salt mne Ben hates old people my wife hates it when this happens a home argument by the way she'll be like we're not in a YouTube video you need to stop this right now yeah how do

you argue with Ben Shapiro at home this does make me angry I think politicians on all sides of the aisle have an interest in ly the American people it kind of goes with this whole idea of that the American dream is dead this hopelessness that is pervading out there you think we're done Ben Shapiro I'm proud of you you are blowing up man you're K you owning

it you're a breath of fresh air in the talk radio world yeah I get I get to skim the cream right I go down to to Florida and I hang out with my very small team over there and Jeremy and Caleb do the hard work of running the Daily Business and then I ask them hard questions and and they get angry at me because I'm not the one who's actually doing

it and and that's kind of how the company operates and so far so good you come in flip the table just just continually upsetting Jeremy and Caleb that might be a good hobby that might be that might be good their friends are wonderful It's a Wonderful company and we're glad to have them uh in the Nashville Community we share ideas back and forth and U concerns back

and forth we had a great uh discussion about cancel culture one time all of us got together and learn some things from each other on how to protect and how to do that stuff but before we dive into some subjects that you've been talking about and that we share in common um we share something else in common I learned from Jeremy confirmed it with you later that uh Rabbi Daniel lapen my good friend

I I

met him because I read his book Thou shalt Prosper uh for those of you that don't know he's an Orthodox Jewish rabbi and this is one of my favorite books on money and economics um definitely in the top 10 of books I've ever read on the subject and it's why Jewish people have a t an inordinate statistical tendency to prosper above the population but anyway aside from that Rabbi Lapin plays a big part in your personal story yeah

so uh Rabbi Lapin was the rabbi of a SCH was called the SCH on Venice Beach a synagogue on Venice Beach my parents had become you know slightly more Orthodox and then they were kind of getting drawn more toward Orthodoxy and they really became Orthodox with Rabbi Lapin they they would drive down to Venice every weekend every every Shabbat you're not supposed to drive but that's the synagogue

they would go to and um he would talk he's very charismatic guy Rabbi Lapin and the community really started to grow and they ended up because of that moving into a Jewish community that was closer to where we lived and I would say that he played a very heavy role in my parents becoming Orthodox in the first place for those of you to translate my interpretation of that would be that

they were more culturally Jewish before and Orthodox is as they became U much more dialed in on

the book keeping kosher and other

serious their with God yeah for sure I mean when you become Orthodox it really is about the practice so Judaism is very Aristotelian Judaism is is sort of the idea that that the the more things you do the closer you get to God so it's a very act-based religion and Rabbi Lapin talks about this a lot um that the way that you become a virtuous person as Aristotle suggests is who do virtuous things that's how

you kind of cultivate virtue in in yourself and Judaism really believes that the M vote the Commandments that's what God gave those to us for right it's not that they have some sort of magical impact on the universe there are some Mystics who think that but but the real kind of hard-nosed work of doing the thing every day is a reminder not only that you're subject to God's rules

but also cultivate virtue in in your life and so

what you're doing when you say a blessing like I just had some water and you can see me kind of mutter to myself I'm saying a blessing before I have the water has to remind me that you know God is the one who who gives the water and so you know gratitude right that's how you cultivate the virtue of gratitude and that that kind of stuff is happening all

the time we have hundreds of Commandments that we keep those aren't incumbent on people who are not Jewish but when you become Orthodox what you do is you accept a system where you basically say there's a bunch of rules that aren't set by me and that make my life better and my community better and that Draw Me Closer to to those virtues draw draw me closer to God through my behavior

and recognizing that there's a system of success in the world that that God has created that I mean God's pretty clear in the Old Testament that there is a correlation between you following the Commandments and you experiencing success in your life and if you're a Christian obviously many of those Commandments are no longer obligatory on you because of the new Testament if you're Jewish they they still are according to us anyway

and and so what that means is that it's not as it's not Prosperity Gospel it's not if you do everything right you know money will descend upon you but as a general rule if you do things right there's a much better chance you're going to have success exactly cause an effect if you do these things you'll be blessed you do these things shall be cursed exactly uh

the speech that uh God gave through Moses right before the children cross the Jordan these are the blessings these are the cursings you do this and some of them are things that we talk about borrowing as an example if you want to be cursed you'll be a borrower if you want to be blessed you'll be a lender you know and uh those things fit right into that

so very very cool I'm curious go ahead I'm just curious growing up in California what was money like in in your house growing up did your parents you know were they were they wealthy was it like Hey we're starting from ground zero here so my my parents were I would say very middle class so I I grew up in a a that's kind of popular to say right now yeah exactly exactly

but you actually asked me that question so you didn't ask me out infl then I started talking about middle CL I grew up in a middle class house yeah exactly we we grew up in a two bedroom 1100 foot house

in Burbank California I had three sisters so I shared a room with with all of my siblings until I was 11 we had one bathroom for six people you know fairly small house my mom was a secretary at a TV company my dad was a composer which means that you know he was playing piano in a restaurant because that's that's how it works in in California if you're not actually

you know a successful film composer then just like everybody in California who has a script you end up a barista if you are if my dad is a is a a

really really good jazz pianist he's playing clubs from the time he was 14 years old and so he was playing in a restaurant on Mondays and Tuesday nights so a lot of my childhood I remember sitting at the restaurant watching him play piano at the restaurant and be excited when somebody dropped like a $10 bill in the tip jar and you know as we got older we moved into a slightly bigger house

we ended up in 2 2400 foot house with with four bedrooms when I was 11 and that's where my parents were up until we all moved to Florida a few years ago so we kind of went from you I'd say middle lower middle class to middle class to upper middle class certainly we were never Rich uh and your law degree is from Harvard did you get a free ride uh no

I I paid that one wow

yeah I was I was already writing by that point right so I I'd already written some books I'd already you know written some articles so you had the ability of cash flowing yeah I had some cash flow 20 years old when you were at Harvard Law yeah I I I started when I was 20 yeah because I started UCLA when I was 16 so when I when

I went to Harvard I mean the the truth is that that that's a good bet for a for a loan officer right you're giving a loan to somebody who's going to Harvard law chance of high income from Harvard Law very good right I mean educational loan business is is a scam but not if you're getting a degree from Harvard law where everybody's going to go work for a big Law Firm for

the first couple of years I worked at a big Law Firm for about eight months decided I hated it and and quit and it was actually really funny so you knew that you wanted to lean into that kind of media side at a young age yeah I was I was a nationally syndicated columnist when I was 17 so when I when I went to when I went to college

when I was 16 I I thought that I was going to double major in music and genetic science because I was a virtuosic viol at the time you can find videos of on YouTube of me playing when I'm 11 years old at Big Banquets and stuff like that I was a much cuter kid and uh and then you know I go to UCLA I pick up the UCLA daily Bruin there's an article in

there comparing Ariel Chiron then the prime minister of Israel to adman the Nazi and I walked into the office and I said can I write a counter to that and they said sure and that morphed into a regular column there I then applied cold to Creator Syndicate which was a syndicator for a bunch of different columnists left and right and they didn't know my age and they said sure

they picked me up my parents had to sign the contract because I wasn't of legal agent you a minor at that point I was a minor and so I I started writing a syndicated of com when I was 17 my first book came out when I was 20 when I was graduating from from UCLA was called brainwashed how universities indoctrinate America's youth my second book came out while

I was at Harvard Law and it was titled porn generation how social liberalism is corrupting our future that was 2005 you miss St up trouble a long time yeah I've been in this for a while I I'm 40 but I've been in this for you know 23 years so it's

I've been doing this for for for quite a while so when I went to Harvard Law you know that that was a good bet even though I I knew the chances of me practicing law long term were pretty bad and the truth is that's also true pretty much everybody at Harvard Law 50% of people in my Harvard Law class aren't in law at all most of them went on to start businesses you know become investors and and and that sort of thing very cool so I'm 64 my plan is to not retire I plan

to stay on the microphone are you allowed to say that I said that one time I got excoriated by people well that's what I wanted to bring up that's what I wanted to bring up you said it's saying that we have ra haven't raised the retirement age in the US I think there's two parts to this argument um uh there's

a social security math problem of the arbitrary age 65 thing but there's also

then the philosophy of what is

retirement and why did we create this idea that we're we work at something we hate long enough and hard enough that we don't have to do anything and that that's that seems to be counterproductive it doesn't seem to be a good spiritual walk to me it doesn't seem to be good emotionally balanced to me you know I can't find retirement in the Bible and and I'm not condemning someone who is retiring

but philosophically I want to talk about retirement or we do and also I want to talk about this idea it's you know the end of that quote from you is it's not fiscally sustainable you know to quit at 65 when

you've got a you know a pretty good likelihood if you make it to 65 statistically you're probably going to be 90 so you got you know those numbers start to be screwy with Social Security yep I mean so as you say there's two arguments there the one I think I got hit more on was the virtal argument that you were making about the virtue of work and and how it's not good to have a mentality at 65 that you're basically going to and when I said retirement what I meant was like actual retirement like go sit on a beach somewhere move down to the Villages drink at 3 p.m.

know on The Virtue Point what I see is it increasingly depressed America because people don't value work in the way that I think that work ought to be valued and a country that has set up an expectation that work itself is somehow bad and unfulfilling and and that's a weird thing particularly in an age when you're not working at a loom right you're not working in the coal mines typically

I mean there are people who obviously are but but the reality is the vast majority of people who are who are you know aching for retirement are are sitting at a keyboard right now at least a huge number of them are vast majority a huge number of them are and so this idea that like what you're really straining for is 25 years of sitting on

a beach like I I just don't know where the virtue is in that vacation's great I love it but there's a reason vacation ain't a full-time job and you know lack of involvement in your community lack of involvement in your family life and again jobs don't have to be you know going working home the human race better yes EXA engage in something my my sister's a stay-at-home mom she's making

the human race better by sitting home and homeschooling her kids and and making sure that everything's my wife the doctor right after she had the last baby she dropped out of the workforce and is taking care of the baby and eventually she'll probably go back in part-time you know that she's working right that that that is a form of work the point that I was making is that

we as a society have degraded work and when you have government programs that are designed to grade work that basically say work hard and then we'll take care of you the rest of your life and you never have to work again that seeing work in I think a perverse way and then obviously you have the fiscally unsustainable reality that is social a giant pyramid scheme with an aging population where everyone knows

and every politician lies about it they they all lie everyone knows we're going to have to radically increase taxes or radically reduce benefits in the next few years everyone knows this radically increase debt yes right I mean and they keep saying they're going to grow their way out of it but I there is a rat and the snake mathematically yes there really is that's scary so what are what are your thoughts about

the extreme side of that the financial independent retire early the people who say hey at 45 I want to be work optional and I'm going to have enough money piled up that I can leave this job that I hate I mean saying that you want to leave the job you hate for another thing I think is is fine I mean if you hate your job and you want to find a better job or

you want to find a better thing to do with your life that's fine but I'll tell you I I have a lot of friends who are billionaires and many of them became billionaires in the tech world at the age of 35 40 right they sold their companies they made a ton of money and then they quote unquote retired and they are just itching you

can see them itching they want to start a new thing yeah I mean they go in they start new things they whether it's charity work or whether it's starting a new business business people have an urge to create and creators particularly have an urge to create I think When God says at the beginning of Genesis that that we're Made In His Image one of the things that makes us like God is our creative capacity right

the only thing that God's done in the Bible to that point is create everything so it says that humans are made in God's image we're the only creature really that has the ability to independently create and so when you stop that creative process when you stop creating which is really a form of building then you lose something in yourself and I think that's a real negative for

the soul you know Rabbi taught me something else on that that was interesting um that the Hebrew word for worship and is very similar or almost

exactly the same word for workship MH to

work is a form of worship and in the New Testament we would say to do your work as unto the Lord but but it's this idea that working in something that you were designed the way you were designed to do the way you were knit in your mother's womb the way you were train up a child and the way he should go and when he's old he'll not depart from

it and the way he has bent the Old King James says and the way the child has been train up a child that the way they're designed and let them go in that that that is a form of worship I remember the uh I was just in Scotland and at St Andrews where they shot the uh the scene the opening scene from Chariots of Fire and one of

the lines in there was he said when I run I feel God's pleasure yeah it's a form of work can be a form of worship when you and it's not workaholism it's not some kind of weird spiritual thing by the way we worked in the garden right I mean like the the actual verse that talks about what Adam is tasked with doing in the garden it uses

the the the verb is is laod right is to is to work it says that you have to actually aode you have to work and then it says andore and to guard right so you're there to work and you're to guard what what what kind of work is there to do in the garden right it's the Garden of Eden everything is perfect everything's wonderful right you got trees with fruit

you got animals you can name everything is awesome and the idea is that even in the Garden of Eden it's not going to be a Garden of Eden unless you have a task people have to have a thing to do and we're a board so and you can see us tearing ourselves apart because we don't have a thing to do I think it increases anxiety and all all

the other things as well I think we saw some of that during the uh the pandemic we told people they weren't essential uh it creates a different kind of mental illness then because there's a uh this idea that I'm not worthy to worship I'm not worthy to do those things and U you

know I raised a couple daughters and a son that that are all married off now and uh we had all dad jokes for the raising the teenage girls is like you know before Adam got a woman he got work so if you're going to come date my daughter you need to be talking about having a job or having a career I just I just saw Professor Scott Galloway mentioned that what women are looking for in a man is

the ability to provide in the future psychologically that's what they're actually looking for and I think what we're seeing is a lot of people who are living at home in their 30s who don't have a job they love to do

and their growth is stunted because of that it seems to be hurting culture all around there's probably a deeper problem when it starts with education when we tell people get good grades do the homework go to college get a degree then do a job for 40 years do you think that's part of the issue well I I think that we are all in this sort of post 50s mindset where

we think of of the way that work was in the 50s and we think that that is sort of the ideal of how work ought to be which is very weird because the truth is that many of the jobs in the 50s are are jobs that nobody would want to do we talk about the idea that you worked at like GM at a factory for 30 years

and then got a gold watch doing rivets okay how many people do you see in the modern world who want to stand over a machine doing rivets that's not a thing the 1950s are an outlier in human history they're they're an outlier because basically the rest of the world had been completely destroyed and the only industrial superpower on Earth that had not been completely destroyed was the United States which meant that

we could essentially have one person in the house one person who is working full-time making a great wage doing a repetitive mechanical task and that ended up collapsing in the 1960s and70s which is why you see America's debt problem start to explode in the 1960s and the 1970s but if you go back before that the reality is that everybody was a Cooperative unit in the family in terms of work

I mean you go back far enough and you go back to a farm and everybody's working the time right if you go back to Proverbs there's an entire section of Proverbs where it describes the ideal woman right we sing it every Friday night it's called right it's it's the the woman of Valor and that that that whole section of Proverbs is all about how what the woman does

it talks about her starting a business it talks about her you know importing Goods it's like it sounds like she started a corporation is what it sounds like the woman of Valor and so I think that you know that that vision of of what life is is that like you just go into the job and you stay at the job for 30 years that's not how the market really historically works worked

and it's not how the market works right now and and I think our educational system is not designed for that it was designed to turn out people who are supposed to fit in sort of particular tasks I see with my son and my son is a sort of heterodox thinker he's eight years old he is you know good at math he can't sit still cuz he's an 8-year-old boy

and what I see is that the stuff that he's really interested in he's really interested in and what a good educational system would do and is what we try and do at home with him is dig into the stuff he's really interested in and use that as a gateway to learn the things that he's going to need to do you know in the world in the way

he was bent exactly and and instead what we try to do is bend the kid to fit the to fit the the hole in the market and that seems you know it enervates it makes people feel uncomfortable and angry because they feel as though they're they're being turned away from the thing they want to do in favor of the thing that quote unquote Society wants them to do

and and that's I don't think it's necessary what do you see about the American dream what's your feeling about that as because you're doing a whole lot of politics right now that's what you do obviously but I mean at this moment when we're taping this you'rea in stumping going state to state working with uh the the politicians out there the thing that we've been running into and pushing back against

the in the wealth building side that this idea that the American dream is dead this hopelessness that is pervading out there you think we're done no and I don't think remotely done I think that that the ingratitude that it demonstrates to suggest that the American dream is dead in a time of unique prosperity in human history where the poorest people in our society have the best Technologies available to them literally in human history where

you have a magic machine in your pocket that you dial you hit a button and a good arrives at your door for a cheap price inside of 24 hours and you're sitting there going the dream is dead I mean we have these things that are time machines they're called airplanes fly to other places on Earth and spend like 5 minutes there and you realize just how much

the American dream is not dead and I think that politicians on all sides of the aisle this this this does make me angry I think politicians on all sides of the aisle have an interest in lying to the American people about this because there's this mentality that if I tell you that the American dream is dead then only I can save you only I have the ability to come

and rescue you from this crisis that has been created for you when the reality is the steps toward success in a free Society are the same as they always were take responsible action go get an education go get a job make smart financial decisions make a smart decision about your family you know the entire entertainment arena is geared towards stories of people overcoming obstacles that are very often made by them

you know the reality is you know when people say what's your life story my my life story is that I had the ultimate privilege two amazing parents and then I made a series of what I think are rational calculated decisions and it worked out well that's my there's not all that much that's like super fascinating about that the there are obstacles you have to overcome along the way things that

you don't expect but this sort of idea that you can take all the right actions and that there is no correlation between that and success is such a lie and it's a malicious lie and it teaches people not to take the actions it enervates them it makes them feel like if I if I do all the right things there's no point to so what's the point of doing

because doing the right thing is actually harder than doing the wrong thing and I think politicians lie about this all the damn time I think it's ugly I think it's hideous I I think that it kills the American Spirit the American people are a people of pioneers that's what we are that's why we all like westerns right Pion we're pioneering people were a bunch of people who came from Europe or from or from Asia or from wherever

but at the very beginning from Europe get away from restrictions to get away from restrictions into a place that was far less secure right into a continent that was totally uncultivated and where you had the chance of being killed by disease or the environment or or the natives at at any moment and and then

that wasn't enough they started Crossing mountains to go to more of these uncultivated places and facing more hardships and more stresses and then you have new waves of of immigrants who are coming from more secure places where there is a guarantee of of you being able to grow up where your parents grew up and going to a place where you don't speak the language where you don't know anything

and I think that's the story of virtually everybody who's in the United States right now or at least huge percentages of it like have parents or grandparents or great-grandparents who at some point abandoned the place where they were more secure to come to a place where they were far less secure for the opportunity are you telling me that my kids have less opportunity in America today in 2024 than my great-grandparents did

when they showed up in like 1907 not speaking a word of English and get off the boat and by the way no real welfare programs no giant social safety net and the idea was you learn English and you do the work and then you will get ahead this arrogance that we are we are the most victimized generation like what the what are you even saying what are

you talking about by what metric are you the most victimized generation that sounds harsh because people kind of cherish that sense of victimization because it throws the responsibility on somebody else but you know first first law of of good management is look in the mirror not through the window right first law is if there's a problem and you look through the window at the thing that that is responsible for

the thing that's making you miserable you're not going to solve the problem if you look in the mirror even if it's true that you can't solve it if you look in the mirror you better take the steps to at least try to solve it first control the controllable exactly yeah that's what I've seen most people are Focus ing on all the things they can't control and that's why they're

so desperate for that politician to fix their life and also the gap between surviving and thriving has has changed the Spectrum has changed back in our parents and grandparents days it was literally survive put a roof over your head food on the table now we have a different problem where they go well I want the American dream today in my own way and I want to shortcut

it I want a house now I want a car now I want to have all my dreams now is that part of the problem is that we've shortcut it with debt and other bad solutions that for sure is true and it's also the fascinating statistic about how many Americans have have moved and the the number of Americans who are moving now is lower than at any time in modern American history Americans are basically staying where

they were even though moving is actually much easier than it was 40 50 years ago and my parents were transplants to a couple different locations right they start off in Chicago they moved to Boston to go to college and then they end up in Los Angeles and now they're in Florida right my I spent my entire life in La it came a point where it was not sustainable anymore

we moved our company to Nashville we moved to Florida right the this this sort of idea it's not just I want a house and I want a car it's I want a house and I want a car in precisely the area I want the house in the car and if I can't get that and the size of house I mean we can go back to your parents story that

they stayed in 2400 Square ft until just a couple years ago yes and started with you in 1100 ft

yes which I I started in 1100 ft now I'm older than you by 25 years but still I mean and and that was California real estate so super expensive because they were in La at the time but still this idea that um 1100 square ft you've got

to be kidding me me under what planet should I live there I'm 21 years old why would I live in 11 my parents bought a house for and I'm like go look at that house you Boomers don't understand you bought your houses for a basket of strawberries and you don't understand you don't grasp what's really going on our expectations and standards have shifted to be impossible I

I think that also because people have you know a a brain Quirk that makes them think that if something is what it is today it was always like that they look at people who live in giant houses and they think that person was always rich right I I get this crap all the time right I mean it's like oh my God you must have grown up rich

I mean you're very wealthy which means you grew up right you're a trust fund baby and I think to myself no I like where are you possibly getting that that doesn't even that like what what in fact I'll tell you the number of people who are truly like generationally wealthy that I know the number of them who are trust fun babies is vanishingly small like the the

the richest people that I know literally and I know the richest people right I mean like Elon you're talking about people you know in in Silicon Valley these virtually none of them grew up trust fund babies right a huge number of them grew up actually really poor or at least at the very least middle class and then they made a bunch of good decisions and again for for all us

we all have these stories right when I got started in my career and I was writing I was writing for free I'd write for free just to get my stuff out there and my wife and I remember driving to like the local Republican Club in Orange County to find a bunch of 80-year-old women and buy a bunch I mean like 15 and then sell books out of

the back of my car at 20 bucks a pop and if we came with $200 that was like an amazing day and everyone has those stories it's exactly what we do that's why we have a trunk of a car out in the lobby with books in it cuz that's how it started and the you know the psalm over it don't despise Small Beginnings and we know from

the largest uh the research that we did the largest research project on millionaires ever done in North America over 10,000 of them we studied that 89% of America's millionaires it's about 21 million of them right now are not millionaires this is data it's not a feeling it's a fact are not millionaires

because of inherited money 89% that's n

out of 10 that should give everyone hearing that number every time I put it out great hope that the American dream is not over and and by the way you can see it in the stats I mean one of the things that Thomas Soul likes to point out is he says you whenever he's talking about disparities and and income I say you know what the greatest disparity in wealth is between older people

and younger people because you get wealthier as you get older if you do it right right I mean this is this is one of those things that that you know if you make smart financial decisions meaning don't day trade then you can actually get Wealthy by making solid financial decisions and then just sticking with those positions over the Long Haul compound growth your income goes up I'm

the only I'm the only rapper in the history of rap who put the magic of compound interest in a in a top charting rap song I I did I did insist on that that was like my insistence Eminem's been real quiet since he dropped that

track Tom McDonald was like well you write your set of the lyrics I was like okay the only thing I want I insist I actually wanted EIT D in there also but but I actually ended up only with h with the magic of compound interest that's amazing I'm curious how how is your view of wealth changed as you've actually built it you know there's a view of wealth

we have when we're young and we're striving has it changed for you now that you're kind of in a different phase maybe maybe in some ways uh you know listen I I was always ambitious to make more money I mean I'm not going to make any bones about this I don't think that's a bad thing I think that you know I didn't get into the business I was in in order to make money

you don't go into the political commentary business because you think you're just going to be loaded at the end of the day in fact every time I tried to make money in a

way that was not my passion it ended up failing right which I which I think is another thing that that folks don't realize about people who tend to make a lot of money is the reason they got into the business that they're in typically was not for the money it's because that's where their creative capacity was so for example I I mentioned I went to law school at Harvard Law right

you come out you have a trajectory now you're going to make a lot of money because you go to Harvard Law the chances you end up poor are pretty low so I go I work at a firm called Goodwin Proctor and I'm like you know I first of all I had the worst interview record in the history of Harvard Law because I was conservative and that that didn't work out well with

the law firms but after I took my books off my resume I got a job and I ended up working in like real estate law and so I'm sitting at this beautiful office in Century City and looking out you know over the over the hills toward the ocean and it's 2007 and there's no work right it's the end of the it's the end of 2007 the real estate market has collapsed she's sitting

there doing nothing all day and I am absolutely miserable and I was making what was you know great money coming out of law school it's like $180,000 and it was coming out of law school that's a lot of money and it's still a lot of money I was dating my wife at the time we gotten engaged and she saw you're she's like you're absolutely miserable you're you you're losing weight you're miserable

you hate this you should quit and I said okay I

mean I'm going to make a you know I don't have a job and he said well don't worry like I have faith that you'll you'll be able to get a job because you have a degree you're a smart person you'll figure it out and if we have to live on a lot less we'll live on a lot less so you don't have to be miserable and so

I ended up quitting we had just you know bought a condo which was great move I took a job for onethird the pay working at a place called Talk Radio Network which was the syndicator for a bunch of nationally syndicated radio and the deal that I made with the head of the company Mark Masters was that I would do corporate legal like half the

time I'd be kind of the secondary attorney there they had a primary um I'd be an associate about four hours a day and the other four hours I was going to I told him I'm only going to do this so I get to learn the basics of production I want to like sit in the room I want to cut audio I want to see how the monologues are done

I want to see like how everything in this industry works and so I got like really in the guts of it from that trajectory came everything else right you had I had to take a step a couple steps back financially in order to take steps forward because I was learning the thing getting expert at the thing that I wanted be expert at and then you try and

you fail and you try and you fail and you try and then you hit and and I think that's the story for a lot of people who get you know really really you know wealthy is is that you got to fail a lot absolutely and I think

you're right that the um politicians

stating that they are your answer for

Prosperity is a Lie from the pit of Hell and I just I rail on it on our shows about that what happens in your house is a thousand times more important than what happens in the white house as far as the trajectory of your future success neither party is going to make your life awesome I'm old I've seen both parties in office neither party has sent me money neither one of them have caused me to be successful I've done stupid things under both of them I've done really smart things under both of them

and the results of the stupid things or smart things that I did are what I inherited Bill Clinton didn't send me any money he didn't curse me he didn't bring my life to an end or anything else and and George W didn't and Ronald Reagan didn't and uh neither one of these two will well that's why it drives me up a wall when you hear politicians say

I created this number of jobs no you no you didn't by what standard what business did you start that you created that number of jobs and if you did create jobs in the in the public sector how much money did you have to steal from people in the private sector in order to redirect it to people that that you think are now going to vote for you

you know I actually just told president Trump that in the interview the other day I said when you tell people when politicians tell people they created jobs it pisses people like me off because we know we create the jobs so since small business is the backbone of the American economy 54% of the gross domestic product then what are you going to do to unleash small businesses to create jobs

because that's who most people work for that was my question to him and he kind of chuckled went well you know that's right it's like you know I I think there's something in the American Soul that's been innervated and put down for a long time and the way that we discuss wealth and the way we discuss money in this country has been wrong for a long time

this idea that the wealthy are quote unquote the privileged or the lucky I mean yes obviously there's an element of luck obviously we all have the privilege of living in the greatest country in the history of the world some of us have more privileges than others in the sense that we were born smarter or born more handsome or you know we're born more athletic but the reality is that that's

the part you can't control and so when we talk about wealth that way what we're doing is talking about all the stupid things that that you can't control the thing that you can control is how you approach the world as a saying that we have at our company that we we kind of you know started trafficking in early on we started hiring employees which is you can't

you can't teach hungry right I can do I can I can teach you all sorts of skills I can make you at your job but I cannot teach you if you're not hungry and Americans I feel like have lost hungry or at least they've forgotten how to be hungry but I think that deep in the American Soul there is a desire again to be Pioneers there's there's a desire to be entrepreneurial there's a desire to to actually go out

there and Conquer and that that's a good thing we've gotten away from this sort of aggressive language with regard to how to approach the world yeah but that but that that language is good I think you have a duty to succeed I think that this this this idea that it's a matter of you know moral apathy whether whether you make the decisions that lead to success or not is really terrible

you have a duty to at least try to succeed you have a duty to make the good decisions and you have to take that burden on yourself and when you do you'll be Freer because it'll it'll you'll be in the flow you'll you'll feel the thing you'll feel like you have a pathway to success there's something about putting that harness on and leaning into it that that stimulates

you it really does and you know we've got uh about 1100 team members and well over 400 of them are gen Z and you know

for the people watching this I I'm greatly encouraged about hungry because

in gen Z there is a group of them that are tremendously hungry they they are missional they they'll charge the gates of hell with a water pistol uh and then there's a group of them that are useless completely useless right and there's kind of no middle ground like Baby Boomers we would at least lie and you know and say we were useful you know but they won't even lie they'll just look at

you and say I'm useless or they'll say Let Me In put me in coach put me in coach by by the way I think that that that last point is really important is that what that says there there has now been created in the United States a permission structure for uselessness it used to be that if you if you if you were you know lazy you didn't want to do

the work you at least had to pretend that you weren't lazy and that you didn't want to do the work and now there's been a permission structure that's been created by politic yeah I mean every time people talk about well is it really that good that you're committed so much to your work is it good that you're spending so much time at work now listen if you have a bad work life balance meaning

you know first of all I don't even like the term work life balance because work is part of your life but if if if the idea is you're spending so much time at work you're not spending the proper amount of time with your family that's a real concern you need to rejigger your life I mean I I have to make conscious decisions about when to stop working to spend time with my kids

but that's not what people are talking about what they really mean by work life balance is that work is something terrible it's a burden that you take upon yourself and if only the markets were nice and friendly then you just get everything you want handed to you if we just had the Star Trek replicator machine we just hand you everything that you want and that's really the natural state of things

and it's like that is not even remotely the natural state of things the natural state of things is people dying at the age of 30 from some terrible disease while living in the outdoors right that's the natural state of things that'll make you grateful yeah it Americans very few Americans have spent a lot of time in you know other places of the world that are a lot poorer by

the way you don't have to go that far they don't have to be that much poor you can go to places in in Latin America

where the corruption is endemic I mean truly endemic you just walk off the plane we my wife and I went to Panama recently and literally we got off the tour gu had to bribe a cop like at the airport I mean that sort of stuff is is really really common you should be grateful to live in a country where if you try to bribe a cop you're probably going to get arrested right like the the the level of of honesty in America is

extraordinary the level of consistency in application of rules yes there are problems but compared to other countries is astonishing if you can't succeed in America where where precisely are you going to succeed and what does success look like to you yeah I've spent 16 days in December in Egypt and I just got back from 14 days in turkey and both of those have less than a $6,000 annual average average income and um yeah we got it

good download an app and go drive Uber and make that in a few months make that in a month if you if you stay in your car enough yeah that's pretty incredible so you're on the campaign Trail I'm curious because it sounds like what you guys are talking about is the job of the politician and the government is to create an environment where people can Thrive and businesses can Thrive

so what do you think politicians need to do if your people get an office what are the steps that we need to take to create that environment well I mean massive deregulation and I think that this is something president Trump certainly understands cutting the red tape that has to be done at local state and federal level it is so much harder to start a business now than

it was to start a business a few decades ago and if if you want to build a house now then the number of of Hoops that you have to jump through doing environmental impact statements and and and applying to things now again it's way better here than it is in other countries if you look at I'm I'm very familiar with the legal system in Israel the legal system in Israel to to build a new building in Israel just to get

the permits approved is like 270 days to do it in the State of Florida where I am is like 3 hours so but with that said there's too much regulation that regulation makes it very very difficult you need to stop confiscating people's wealth when people make money let them make their money and then reinvest their money in new things we need to get rid

of the systemic burden on the American economy that requires that draw down which is these giant welfare programs these giant welfare programs are eating the American economy alive and none of these politicians will take it on because when you have a a concentrated

benefit and a diffused cost then it's very hard for politicians to actually make the case for getting rid of the program right when 10 people are really benefiting a lot but a th people are paying 1 cent it's much easier to just say to those 10 people hey you're getting your money you know everything's everything's great for you and all you you're just paying one cent but

the reality is you take one cent many many many times which is what the government is doing eventually end up bankrupting everything and politicians on both sides are running screaming away from this sort of stuff because the American people are not prepared to hear it and frankly I don't put it on the politicians I I really think that when it comes to the politicians I I I deeply in Thomas Soul statement about

this it's not about electing the right people it's about creating incentives so the wrong people do the right things and in the end that's on us right we're the voters we're the ones who get to decide whether we hold politicians accountable for lying to us about social security or Medicare or Medicaid or the welfare programs that are that are eating the budget and the American people are seem to be willing to walk right off that Cliff

I can't blame the politicians for taking advantage I blame them for lying I I blame them for for not telling the truth but that's what you and I are here for is to tell the truth also I mean I I think that I've spoken with a lot of Congress people Senators presidents and and one of the things that I constantly say to the politicians is your job is not my job in my job is not your job your job is to go get 80% of

the loaf and my job is to Define what the loaf looks like and what I see from the politicians is them trying to do our job and us trying to do their job meaning we are afraid to tick off our audiences by saying the thing that might be unpopular because not enough people are willing to agree with the idea that they're free to succeed in America you might piss somebody off right

so there's audience capture in the commentariat and then for politicians they want to pretend that the 80% that they're getting is 100% because that's how you win you pretend that actually you cut this the single best deal in the history of humankind even when you only got 50% of the loaf and and so what you'll do is you'll pretend well sure I didn't touch welfare Social Security Medicare Medicaid

but I soled all our budget problems and we're going to soar into the future it's like no now now you're lying so I think both both the commentar and the and the political sphere have to stop lying I think both of them are lying I think the very first time I saw you um was some

YouTube clips of you taking questions on

woke subjects from college kids and U

that's probably gosh you and I've been friends for almost uh almost 10 years so that's probably 10 or 15 years ago some of those clips the first time I saw them and I think it was Rachel was at the lake housee she said you got to see this Ben shapo benel he just he's destroying but one of the things that struck me with that and I think one of the things that's appealing about those clips and even about your show and sometimes we get it on our stuff but we're little uh a

little different T take on it is this uh

sense that it's like your pulse rate doesn't change on these things you know there's this thing of uh you you're uh I want to

say not afraid but that's not it you don't get amped up at all it's almost as if when you're debating someone you're toying with them um you're a chess

master and you've seen four moves ahead and they're done so we're going to go ahead and enjoy the ride you know that kind of a thing is the way it feels um have you always been that way or did you develop that confidence as you as you did it more I think some both uh I think you get better at it the more you do it and

there are times where you still have to remind yourselfself to stay calm depending on how inflammatory the topic you're taking on is I remember you just this year when I went to Oxford University in the aftermath of October 7th and obviously you know I know people whose family members are kidnapped in in the Gaza Strip I know multiple families who have lost family who are soldiers in in Gaza

I know many people right now who are serving in Lebanon so have you know a pretty close stake in in that particular conflict and and October 7th and and all the rest and uh and I was you know facing down students who actively were calling for the destruction of the state of Israel and defending Hamas andah and all this going in I kind of had to say to myself listen just stay calm just stay calm just don't get angry just stay calm that that's that's fairly rare

I I tend to be more analytic there's there's sort of a mode that I go into and this is this is the part that's kind of natural I'm not sure why it it occurred maybe it's from being bullied as a kid but where we're almost

I can see myself almost in third person doing the thing uh where it's like okay well now we're in analysis mode and this person's making an argument is it a good argument is it a bad argument let's try and kind of figure out what the what the puzzle pieces are here force them to Define terms try and maybe I agree with them what what exactly is it that they're doing here my wife hates

it when this happens during a home argument by the way she'll be like we're not in a YouTube video you need to stop this right now yeah how do you argue with Ben Shapiro at home that feels like is it even worth it no I I mean so do you ever let her win just for fun well I mean if I'm smart I let her win all

the time right I mean that's the smart move but it's but yeah the the truth is my wife is really good about this sort of stuff meaning that I'm I'm You by Nature a very analytic person and so i' I've said this before you when when I'm talking to my wife and I will now generalize this to to many women uh many women when they present a problem

they don't want an answer they want sympathy and this is a mistake I made for many years at the beginning of my marriage where my wife would come to me with a problem and be like right so you should this and this and this and then it'll be solved and she be like get angry like why why why are you like why are you telling me that

and so I actually said to her I you know I need to know at the outside of the conversation is this a solving this thing problem or is this say you just want me to hear you conversation like which one which one of these is it and she's she's nice enough to actually like be honest about that let me know good good marriage tick and I've heard she's one of

the nicest people in the world so opposites do attract apparently yeah exactly exactly no she she yeah every

everyone loves my wife my wife is a sweetheart so are you in that same vein a lot of your brand has been built around controversy you're stepping into extremely controversial things or sometimes you create it um is this intentional or is it just a value this is something I value and I need to go there and if controversy happens so be it it's more the letter I

I really try not to say uncalibrated things for the sake of just drawing fire everything that I say I feel like I could say in a more inflammatory fashion just to get clicks I I really try to calibrate my language to make sure that if there's a hill that I'm going to die on I want to die on a hill of my own own choosing and and what that means is that

if there is a position that finds itself in controversy then I want to stated as clearly and succinctly as I can a boy is not a girl right I mean these are things that that didn't used to be controversial but now are very very controversial uh or disparities are not

are not evidence of discrimination you have to show me evidence of discrimination otherwise you know there might be a confound in in in what you're talking about that like that that has now become a controversial statement but I I I really try not to just initiate

you know firefights for the sake of initiating firefights I try to be pretty careful about the language that I use and frankly I find it irritating when people are deliberately vague when they use semantic overload in order to do that you'll see people do this again criticizing my own industry but you'll see people do this they'll say something that is perceived by say our side of the aisle as perfectly obvious

and it's perceived by the other side of the aisle as the most controversial thing ever and if they had just said it in the way that they actually meant it it wouldn't be controversial at all so instead of talking about say you to to take just a a random example uh pretty famous commentator on the right at one point was suggesting that immigration was making our country dirty

and this was perceived by the right as okay there are people who are coming across our border who come from cultures where they don't clean the streets as often and that means there's more trash on the streets sometimes and that's that's a bad thing and then people on the left are like he's talking about racially dirty if you're on the right you read That's semantic overload it's a it's a term that that can be interpreted a variety of ways

if the commentator just said what I mean is the first thing what I mean is when people come here and they come from a culture where there isn't regular trash pickup they sometimes leave their garbage on the lawn and that makes the neighborhood dirtier and that has severe social consequences for everybody else who lives in the neighborhood now it's not even controversial right you know exactly what

the person's saying and I think there's a certain amount of deliberate vagueness that very often contributes to controversy that I don't particularly like because it's not it doesn't aim at at solving the problem you know sometimes I think it's deliberate and sometimes I think it's almost mental laziness MH instead of taking the time

to get to the point in a concise way in a clear way with courage and say this is

what I mean and if you don't like that that's okay but this is what I mean and that requires some extra mental gymnastics and it requires an extra level of backbone to step in and go be be very very clear if you're going to be mad at me let's be mad at me about the right this is one of the things that drives me absolutely up a wall is is

when people will they'll use words like they without an antecedent right they're out to get you it's like well I need to know who they is yeah we get that in the financial World they said and I heard right so horrible financial planning firm and and and you see this all the time in politics well there doing X they're doing y can we even know who they are

if you tell me who they are I can I can verify it I can say whether it's false whether I think that it's true you see this about say election 2020 and people will say the election was rigged okay I need specifics what are you talking about specifically when you say the election was rigged do you mean that members of the Legacy Media hid the hunter Biden laptop story in

the leadup to the election in order to help Joe Biden totally agree if that's what you mean by rigged 100% agree if by Rigg you mean that in the middle of the night in Fon County there were people who bring in new halls full of ballads and then just shoving them through the machines I need some evidence of that right but people will use rigged and they'll just mean all those things to all those people

and then if you say well I don't think I don't agree with you the way you're talking about then it's like well that's because you're on the other side right it's it's a way of creating artificial division rather than Clarity and and that that I find pretty reprehensible well it's it's where we've devolved from arguing about ideas instead we argue about hyperbole that's what it comes down to have

you found that you know with the onset of Instagram reals and Tik Tok and shorts it exacerbates it it's kind of like when you just see the headline and snap judgment start commenting and there's no context for you for the full hourong piece you did on the subject versus this 30 second clip you saw and and that also means that that it's very easy to deliberately mischaracterize other people's viewpoints

and so yeah that happens all the time Y where where somebody will will claim that you said a thing that you clearly did not say in fact you may have said precisely the opposite or you clarified it in a particular way in the middle of you know a 15-minute segment or an hour segment and they'll pick out one sentence and then because people have an attention span of 7 3 seconds whatever

it is you know people will will see that and then they'll just think that's your view from now on I mean the comments that we started with about retirement are perfect example of this I wasn't saying that you can never retire that you have to be 9-year-old working in a salt mine Ben hates old people right exactly that was for for like two weeks that was the narrative

The Narrative was I remember they did the same thing during Co right during Co I was saying that just on an on insurance basis we should treat years lost of life as one of the stats that we use in measuring the impact of Co meaning that if you're talking about know who to protect and who to Shield we should be shielding the elderly that's that's the number one job

but we should be trenching people who are younger back into the workforce because those people are not really going to get sick and they're really not going to die they're going to be fine if you're talking about you know past pandemics this pandemic compared to other pandemics is targeting particularly not kids not people who are young and healthy it's particularly targeting people who are older and have multiple pre-existing conditions which means that it's a less damaging pandemic than past pandemics in certain ways right not in terms of every human life is is valuable

but if you're just talking about like cost of years lost then you're you're talking about people who are 85 who are dying at 85 as opposed to 86 that's horrible it's a tragedy it's awful it's also not the same thing as a nine-year-old child dying and we all know that right if if millions of nine-year-old children had been dying of covid then people would have been willing to undertake pretty much any measure in order to quote unquote slow

the spread right but it so I said that and the takeaway from the media was Shapiro fine with with dead old people it's like that's not what I'm saying at all I'm saying what is a perfectly obvious point but you know if you can boil things down into their most controversial and stupid form people like being pissed people people like the feeling of getting passionate on the internet

and it'll get views and clicks at the end of the day lot yeah I've noticed a lot of people made a really good living off of doing that off of my stuff right making a solid secondary living off of uh reacting to things that you reacting to things that I say I'm really good for clicks EX for things I didn't say well proud of you guys again

we sit at the opening and we're proud of you to have you as friends and neighbors and uh we love watching your success and watching your talent and all the good things you're doing very well done and appreciate you taking time to sit down with us on long form here no it's always great to see it's a blast Ben Shapiro ladies and gentlemen Ben Shapiro thanks this is

the Ramsey Show

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## 94. It’s Never Too Late To Retire With Dignity | November 14, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bjcVVxgsrM) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:58:35 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds [music] Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

Excited to be with you today. I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Campbell. The phone number to jump in8255225LE88255225.

Let's go to Kate here in Nashville, Tennessee. Kate, how can we help?

>> Hey guys. Um, how are y'all doing?

>> We're having a blast. What's going on in your world? >> Okay, so um I am I think I'll just throw

stuff out and then y'all can ask questions. I'm 49. I am divorced. um

five years and I have been renting and I

have nothing in savings. I am on baby

step two and will be debtree um this the

end of this month.

>> Awesome. >> And I will be I'll be going into of course baby step three and and hopefully into baby step 3b really quickly. Um, I

believe what I'm looking for is um some

encouragement or and or advice on, you

know, if I need to make some changes, if I need to do more. Um, so yeah.

>> Wow. So, how how long ago was this divorce? Is it finalized?

>> It w it is. Um, it was 5 years ago.

>> Okay. >> In 2020. >> Did you walk away with anything?

>> Any assets? >> Very little. Very little. Okay. And no

alimony or anything like that?

>> No, unfortunately not.

>> Okay. What do you make?

>> Well, it I hate it when people say this.

It varies. I own a uh residential and

commercial cleaning company that um fluctuates. And so, um this year,

um I kind of tick like a rest year. I

had surgery in January and uh I was

burned out at the end of last year. So, but I'm still making and bringing in pretty good money. Um bringing in right now around between 9 and $10,000. Um you

know, my take-home. >> Fantastic. >> Good for you. So, you've got a whole team that's running the show and you took a break as far as you're not, you know, physically doing any of the work.

Well, I for until May and then I had to

get back out there. I am uh one who needs to be moving. If not, I get depressed and eat.

It's just not a good situation. So, I am out there with my employees. Yes.

>> Hey, a real quick question. I don't want to spend a lot of time on this, but I just feel like I'm supposed to ask.

What's going on in your personal life?

Are you trying to date? Are you getting back out there? It's been five years.

You know, are you experiencing loneliness, isolation? and I just want to know where you stand on that.

>> Um, I am pretty peaceful at the moment.

I did do some dating and it was just trash. So, um, I'm not in that scene

right now. I think I'm focused more on

>> getting my life back in order or getting it in order, period. >> Great. What about friends, though? What What kind of friendships do you have?

Um, I have, you know, I have some friendship, you know, I have great friends at church and great Bible studies and things like that. >> Perfect. Okay. I just wanted to make sure you weren't trying to do this alone.

You've done some great stuff. Uh, but when I hear burnout, the business, I just want to make sure that you got community around you because the baby steps alone, George, are hard enough and um and you've done so so well. Now, you set us up, but what's your specific question?

I think my concern is my retirement. I,

you know, with me renting at the moment,

no money in saving. I, you know, I've got my emergency fund and

that's it. >> Okay. How long has it been since you got the emergency fund funded?

>> Um, it's not the fully it's not the I'm

interested in baby step two, but I >> Okay, I apolog I apologize. All right.

So, let's let's let's uh bring George in here because when you're in the middle of baby step two, um your mindset

doesn't need to be focused on retirement, George. >> Yeah. So, 6 months from now, will you have that fully funded emergency fund in place? You'll be debtree with that savings. >> Okay. >> Yes, I do have the Every Dollar app, and

it is phenomenal. Phenomenal, by the way. I love it. Um, and it gives me

really good hope for my future, but I, you know, I just want to hear what you guys have to say about it.

>> Well, yeah, I can show you the math because that's the best way to show you the reality. And if you don't like it, you can make some changes. So, we we, you know, recommend 15% of your household income going into retirement once you're debtree with the emergency fund. So, let's say by summertime, will you be 50 by then?

>> I will be 50 in February. Yes.

>> Perfect. Okay. Okay. So, let's say you're starting at 50 with nothing in retirement.

>> Mhm. >> And your household income gross, like on your tax return, what is that going to show that you made?

>> Um >> 150,000 170,000.

>> No, I don't think it's going to be that.

I would I don't know. I'd say probably around 100. >> Well, you told us your take-home pay is nine or 10 grand a month.

>> That's what I'm bringing in right now.

It fluctuates, so I really don't >> Okay. you know, and and I wasn't working in the front of this year. So, >> that's okay. I like the conservative number. 100,000. It's a good number for this exercise. >> So, that's 15,000 a year you'd be investing. Are you tracking with me? 15%.

>> Yes. >> So, per month, that means 1250 is going to be going into investment accounts of some sort from age 50 to 67. If you did that, you would have 34 of a million dollars by 67.

That's not a terrible nest egg.

considering you're starting from scratch at 50. Now, that's assuming your income

never goes up. That's assuming you never get a home and pay it off. Um, and so that gives me some hope that you can create a little nest egg for yourself. Now, I don't know what kind of lifestyle you're looking to live in a retirement.

I assume you want to live pretty comfortably. And that means we got to get the income up. We might need to work longer. You know, we can start to tweak some of these variables if you want to see a bigger number in that retirement account.

>> Yeah. >> How does that hit you? It sounds like you are completely deflated. Yeah.

>> No, no, no. I'm thinking and um >> let me throw something out there. Okay.

>> It's not part of not part of the Ramsay U plan here, but I I've held my tongue a

few times recently, George, when I've had call when we've had calls like this.

I'm going to throw it out there. >> Okay. >> All right. >> I'm not scared. >> And Kate, this is coming from like the friend, the brother, you know, we're close to the same age.

>> Yeah. >> I like that you're in a place of peace and you're getting your financial house in order. But I'm going to tell you something. Get further healing coming out of that divorce. Get yourself out there because what George just gave you from a number standpoint doesn't take into account a really good man out there who has his financial house in order and we combine finances and we live a really great life. So you're not in this alone.

>> That's assuming it's a solo journey forever and Ken is believing more for you. >> I am not putting pressure on you. I'm not I'm not I'm not giving love advice.

>> Your lips to God's ears. >> Come on. Okay. Good. So you are hopeful for it.

>> Yeah. I mean, >> good. Well, listen, you got listen, you got to put yourself out there. >> And again, that's a variable that completely changes all of this.

>> We meet some guy who who equally has been hurt and he or he's never been married, whatever, whatever, whatever.

And uh I believe that you can find that guy. I believe that. And uh we get on the same page with money and this this whole picture changes. I'm just putting it out there.

>> Just remember this, Kate. It's not too late. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is today.

and today is here and you've got a great income. You've got a bright future ahead of you and I fully believe you're going to retire with dignity if you follow this plan. >> Thank you. >> I got to say my inspiring advice probably has to do with I walked through the living room last night.

My wife and daughter were watching the Golden Bachelor. >> Oh, there you I was wondering. I was like, Ken's really wanting this to happen. >> So my daughter says to me, "Dad, sit down and watch the finale." I was like, "Oh, how do I say no to her?" >> And you loved it too much.

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[music]

>> [music]

>> All right, Patricia is up next and she is uh waiting for us in Ohio. Patricia, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, I have found this past year that

in order to pay the quarterly taxes on my investments, I had to borrow from the

investments to pay those taxes, which

generated more tax liability for the following

year. And I just realized this and

decided it has to stop and um

immediately. and I've taken some steps

to stop it. Um, and tried to I'm trying

to use the RNY plan, but I need to know

if I'm taking the correct steps and um

if it needs tweaking or anything.

>> Okay. So, give us a picture here. So, you have a tax bill come up and you go, "Well, I don't have the money. I'm going to dip into my 401k and and borrow against it." What have what have you been doing?

>> Well, I in 2015 when my mother died, I

inherited um stocks and I brought them to a broker

and everything and he's played with the portfolio and it has doubled. Um it's

gone from mid300,000 to $756,000.

Is this in a retirement account or is it outside of retirement?

>> Outside of retirement.

>> Okay. As in you're paying capital gains taxes when you withdraw. Is that the issue? Is that why you're saying you're getting taxed again? >> Yes. >> Well, I think let's go back. Let's go back a step.

>> What are the quarterly taxes on? Is it do you are you self-employed? And and and it's a two-part question. Why

quarterly taxes? What's going on? And and and why is it that you're not setting that money aside that you're not able to pay it? give us a better picture.

>> Well, um I had always been able to pay

it until I think this year and uh I what

has changed?

>> Um uh they became bigger than I could

handle. like what became bigger before I

I I had sold a house and I had $15,000

profit from that >> and I thought, well, I'll give that to the the broker and he'll grow it for me

so when I'm ready to buy a car, I can buy the car. So, I did that and but I

not realizing that I would have to pay.

You didn't set aside. You didn't. So, you're getting But here's why I'm digging into this, Patricia, so that we can help you. >> One doesn't have to pay taxes unless one is bringing in income and revenue. So, you're clearly bringing in a a certain amount of income and revenue, and taxes are due on that, and for some reason, you're unable to pay them. Now, in this situation, it sounds like you sold a house, you didn't set aside any taxes

uh on that capital gains and you just gave it all to investor and you didn't set some aside. So, then the tax bill came back and you're so low on cash. Is that a proper representation of what I heard?

>> No, I'm sure I paid the taxes on the

sale of the house, although I don't remember the particulars right now.

>> Well, forget the sale of the house. Let's talk about your business. So, you're you're self-employed.

Okay. No. Um, let me give you some

details. I'm 70 years old. So, I'm

retired and I'm living off of social security and a pension. My income is

$52,000 a year.

>> From those two things. >> And yeah.

>> Okay. >> From those two things. and my tax man

uh quite a few years ago started to give

me these slips of paper for the IRS and

for the state that said I had to make

full payments to cover the taxes for the the following

year so that I wouldn't be surprised

when when I handed in my tax bill that

there's like a $5,000

uh amount that I have to pay. So, I pay it ahead of time and four installments.

Well, this year when I when I got those,

they're over $2,000, like $2,200

each time. I um I went to see if I had

that kind of a cash that I could pay it

out of my own funds, and I didn't. So, I

borrowed from I went to my broker and

said, "I need money to pay the these

bills." And I was given money. And it

wasn't until the fall that I realized, "Oh my goodness, cuz what I did when I

borrowed the money uh to >> When you say borrow the money, I'm confused. Are you just selling off a portion of your investments?" >> Yeah. Yeah, >> because borrow means you're taking a loan against it, but that's not what you're doing. You're just withdrawing from the investment account.

>> Yeah, I withdrew from the investment account, >> but then I realized all of a sudden I realized, okay, I made all these withdrawals this year to pay 2025 taxes,

and those withdrawals will come due. Um,

I'll have to pay taxes on them in 220.

>> Yeah. Every time you take money out of that investment account, know that you should set aside 30% of that in a savings account. >> That's going to be the easiest way to do this is if you take 10 grand out of your investments, put three grand of that in a savings account. And then when tax time comes around, you transfer it from savings to checking and you pay the tax man.

That's what I just the easiest way to do it is just set aside just call it 30%.

>> Okay. Well, anyway, what happened was I

found out I um asked how much was taken

out this year, and my broker had said um

he wanted to uh charge a flat fee for the year, a

certain percentage, and he wanted and [clears throat] he split my accounts into stocks in one one area and in

mutual funds in another. Why are you in single stocks anyways?

>> Why does your broker have you in those?

>> Well, that's what I started with. I started with all stocks and moving them over to >> he's slowly converting them to mutual funds. Okay. I I think two things, George. I I would love for you to give Patricia just a basic let's get on a budget and so that she's not lacking

cash. She has I think Patricia I'm guessing you have plenty of income through your through your benefits to be able to pay your bills and you have some margin. Is this true or false?

>> False. >> You don't have enough money coming in.

>> No. Um what are >> I This is what I've done so far. I I'll

tell you. I transferred my investments to a bank to get them away from this guy

because he insists that he is going to

work with those investments and every time he sells something and moves something it it generates a tax

liability for me and I need to be away from that for a while until I >> I'm so confused. See, do you not trust the broker? Because they're just doing what you tell them to do.

>> And no matter who you work with, even if it's on your own, you're going to owe taxes when you sell off these investments.

>> Uh but Patricia, let's go quickly. We don't have much time with you and I want to get you with a financial coach. We're going to give you a session with one of our financial coaches because this is an onion that's um got a lot of layers, but

I just need a yes or no question. based on the pension, the social security payments that you told us your income.

Are you telling me that if you didn't have tax payments, are you saying that even with those benefits that you don't have enough money to pay your household bills, your utilities, groceries, all those things?

I I have stood down to

um their minimum and put myself on a

budget. So, I have $1,500 a month to go toward um toward paying

those things. And I and that's what I'm going to say. >> I I I Okay. All right.

So, I think we we're about to the end of our time and our ability to help you. And what you need is and we're going to we're not going to leave you hanging. So, hang on the line, Patricia. Christian is going to get you set up with one of our financial coaches and they can walk through all of this, get it all.

>> They'll help you with the budget. They'll help point you to a tax pro who can explain, hey, here's how much your income is.

Here's how much you need to set aside.

We just need to get some of these details ironed out so that you're not stuck in this cycle for the rest of your life. Sorry you're going through this.

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All right, we go to Aiden who is in Michigan next. And Aiden, we're here for you. How can we help?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

>> You bet. What's going on? So, in about six months, I'll be turning 18 and I'll be gaining access to a portfolio of about $90,000 in stocks. And on top of that, I'll have like 13,000 in a CD, 5,000 in a money market. What strategies would you guys recommend to help me grow these funds? >> Where's the money coming from?

>> So, when I was born, my grandfather put

money into the stock market and it's just been growing ever since. >> Wow. So, it's all been in your name this whole time, but you're turning 18 and have access to it because of that. Uh, so it's a it's a custodian account. So it's in his name until I'm 18.

>> Got it. So it's like a UTMA or UGMA, one of those. >> Yeah. >> Okay. What do you call grandfather?

What's his name? What do you call him?

>> Uh, I call him Gordon.

>> That's very formal. [laughter] >> That's his actual name.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> You don't call him pops or granddaddy or >> Yeah, I do, but that that's his name.

>> No, I So it was a bad question. What's his grandfather name? What do you call him? >> Well, I call him Papa, but yeah, his name >> Papa. Yeah, I know. We established the Gordon. >> All right. I was All that wasted time for me to say you need to thank Papa.

Papa's a good man. He set you up. The moment's lost. We lost the whole thing in translation.

Gordon. I call him Gordon. [laughter] >> Gordon. That's strong.

It's a strong name. >> So, the question, how can I grow the money? We can answer that in two seconds. The better question is, what is the best use of this money for your future?

Exactly. >> For the short term and the long term, which then we got 17 other questions like, what does the future look like for you as you graduate high school? Are you going to go to college?

>> Uh, I plan on going to college for finance, and I plan on using some of this money for college, but I just want to grow it safely so that I have that money when I'm older. >> Okay. Well, the next question is, how much is college going to cost? because if it's going to cost $100,000, we're not going to go put this money into the stock market.

>> Yeah. Uh so I plan on going to MSU. Um

so that's probably going to be around $130,000.

>> Okay. So you just let the cat out of the bag. We're not going to invest this money. We're going to park it in a high yield savings account to cash flow our college experience. Agreed.

>> Yeah. >> Because you invest that money. Now you're going to go take out 130 grand in student loans. Would you agree?

Yeah. >> So that's why I I cautioned against I want this money to grow too, but that's not the purpose of this money. This purpose is to fund your education if that's your next step. Cuz the whole goal here is to avoid debt.

Do you have any debt currently? >> No. >> Can we keep it that way and use this seed money to help you avoid debt for the rest of your life? >> Yes, sir.

>> So that would be like a a reasonable used cash car covering your college expenses to get you through the next four years. We're going to graduate in four years.

Things like that. So, if you can make that promise to yourself and to Papa, then we're on to something. Because now at 22, you graduate debtree. You got a degree in finance. You're making 60 grand out of college. Now, we can begin to go, how can I use my income to as a wealth building tool instead of this money? >> How close do you live to uh Lancing, the

main campus?

>> Uh, it's probably about like a two-hour drive from me.

>> All right. Why MSU in particular?

>> Uh they have a good business class and just high acceptance rate honestly.

>> Yeah. >> So that just go for the lowest bar possible. Here's what I'm thinking. Can we get a finance degree for 50 grand total instead of 130 grand total? Cuz I can tell you this, the employer doesn't care how good the business class was.

>> That's where I'm going. I I just my heart sank when you told me it was going to be 130 for Michigan State or state school. I went and looked at what the instate tuition is and a lot, you know, half of that cost is housing and all the other junk. That's why I asked how close you are. And the whole point is is I'm I'm with George. How can you use some of

this money to cash flow college and

still have some money left over for the very point that George >> Can you imagine graduating with no debt and $30,000 in the bank and another 25

for a down payment?

>> That's a cool future at 22. You're way ahead of America. That's what we want for you. And so what that requires is, you know, what's your GPA right now? Are you Did you graduate or you about to?

>> Uh, no. Next year I'll be graduating.

>> So, what's your GPA as a junior in high school right now? >> Uh, my GPA currently is a 3.5.

>> Uh, not bad, my friend. I never even sniffed 3.5, so that's impressive. What do you have you taken any pre uh ACT, SAT score, any tests?

>> Uh, actually today I have SAT prep class. >> Great. I'm going to tell you something.

Just a little tip here. You need to do your own homework on this as it relates to business schools in the state of Michigan. I'd start there. Instate tuition obviously is going to be better, but um and George, you know, I'm a big fan of this. I got a kid right now. I got a high school senior who's who's going through this and he's crushing it.

I have told him I'll pay for as many uh I by the way, I paid for George a uh

tutor for these tests. They're specifically for these standardized tests. My son's got a 40, but he's not a wonderful test taker, and neither was I. And so, it's like, we got special prep for that. So, Aiden, you know, if your parents are willing to pay that, you can pay it. I would get a tutor to prep you for these uh these these exams. Uh two,

take them as many times as you as you need to. If you're cash flowing it, because every time you go up, my son, by the way, has taken the ACT twice and he's crushing it. He's measurable difference between the second time. He says to me the other day, "Dad, should I take it a third time?" I went, "How much money could we save?" [laughter] >> That's true. >> Because it's like, "I'll pay for the test if he's saving five grand $10,000

scholarship." Then it was worth paying the tutor 500 bucks. >> 100%. So Aiden, I'm speaking real time here. And so you're a junior, so you still have some time. But bringing this back home where George and I are, you need to discover all of the schools in Michigan that have a good a decent business program. They don't need to be topnotch.

Um and and if we can go for half, what

an accomplishment. >> Think about this. You spend 65 on school instead of 130 and at 22 you invest that other 65. Can I tell you the numbers?

>> Tell him, George. >> $3.5 million at 62. That's if you never

put another dime. >> Aiden, did you hear that?

>> I heard it loud and clear.

>> So it's not two boomers, you know, hating on college. Like we're trying to make the most of that money for you. And that's why it's very important to go, how little of this money can I use to cash flow college, and how much can I get from scholarships, part-time work, busting my tail so that I can have this kind of wealth on the other side.

>> Love it. >> So, if you just make a plan, I'm taking debt off the table, no debt, I'm going to use as little of this money as possible, and then once I graduate and have my income, now we can make some more adult decisions because the future's a little more clear. And right now, there's just too many variables for me to tell you, just go park it in the market, Aiden, you'll be fine.

Uh, let me see here. Where do you live?

>> Uh, right now I'm in St. Joseph,

Michigan. Small town. >> Give me an idea how far away from Detroit. Greater Detroit that is.

>> Uh, that's probably going to be like three hours. >> Okay, great. Um, let me let me just I just did a quick search. Um,

Oakland University. My cousin, very successful um, marketing executive went to Oakland

University. It's right in the suburbs of Detroit. They offer free tuition for qualifying uh residents. U so look into that. Um

it's financial and residency requirements. I don't know. I'm not saying you're going to get free tuition, but this is just a quick search. Um >> it's doing all the research instead of going, "Well, this is the school I want, so who cares?" >> And and well, here's what here's what your answer was.

And by the way, no judgment, Aiden. I appreciate it, but I want to encourage you. Your answer to George is why Michigan State. You went well honestly because well they've got a good business program.

Someone told you that. Who really cares? Nobody.

then you said ultimately it's a high percentage the acceptance rate. And you're in this stage and you've been conditioned by this country, parents,

uh principles, teachers, you've been conditioned that college is the best way to success. And it's no longer true. By the way, never was true. Uh but we were told it was true. And so at this point, I'm I'm just really driving this home.

My homework assignment for you is to uh

look at the most affordable colleges in Michigan, look up their business programs, how are they rated, do some research on that as well, and let's see how much money we can knock off of tuition. Uh so that we keep Gordo's

investment for you. I like this plan.

This is like the prodigal son. You don't want to just spend all the money, the inheritance instantly and then come back and go, "Well, it's gone. I'm eating with the pigs now." I want to see you really live, man. Live with some freedom. And that means using this money very wisely to protect the legacy that your grandfather just handed down to you.

[music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> Hey, George. Guess what?

>> What? The allnew Every Dollar is here.

You're wearing >> That was a setup, Ken. I thought you really had something for it. >> I know. I kind of like to do that. Uh >> I almost said chicken butt to be honest.

[laughter] >> I refrained. >> Wow. Oh, but yet you said it anyway.

>> Yeah. >> So, there you go. Uh, so I uh met with the team the other day. This the new every dollar is amazing. You hear this and I go I I'll be the judge of that.

>> Yeah. >> Do you know what I mean? I'm a little bit of a not a true cynic, >> but you're like, you want to see it to believe it. >> I would like to arrive at my own conclusion, not have a marketer tell me.

So, I had a meeting with the Every Dollar folks. You know, I was blown away by >> what's that? the uh 12 to 15 minutes of questions when you initially get in there. And I said to them, I go, "This is literally a more robust version of

someone calling in the show and getting our coaching. You're going to get eight minutes, eight, nine minutes with us." >> 247 in your pocket is with >> 247. And then I found out that for now,

and I told the people the other day, I don't know how how long Dave's going to let this one go. Uh >> oh. But you also can get a 10-minute call with a real live financial coach.

>> That's right. Yeah. >> In addition to the articles, the here's

what you need to do. So, I I'm just telling you when I say it's no longer a budgeting app, I mean it. It really is.

>> Yeah. The group personal coaching, that's some of the best features. >> It's a digital financial coach that, oh, by the way, has a phenomenal budgeting functionality to it. That's my take.

What do you say? I actually just came from a lunch with those guys and they were showing me what they're working on.

Mind blown. >> Oh boy. >> The functionality the we're moving just past it being budgeting and more like how do we track all the pieces of your financial life so you get a real holistic picture and you know what to do next. That's where this thing is heading and you can come along for the ride and check it out.

>> People where they get it. >> Go get it in the App Store or Google Play. Just search every dollar. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes.

Like Ken mentioned, you got nothing to lose except maybe you're stressed. Oh, well played. I see what you did there. Adam is up in Dallas, Texas.

>> Hi, how are you guys doing? Thanks for taking my call. >> We're doing great. What's going on with you?

>> So, my wife is an avid listener to your show. >> Well, of course she is. You married a good woman. Tell her we said thank you.

>> I did. All right. I did. I will.

Um I honestly, just being honest, I don't listen to it very much unless she was in the car with me, but I have. >> Okay, let's put Adam on hold. Who's next? Who do we have next?

I'm kidding, Adam. I'm kidding.

>> But I have uh listened to the audible book Money Makeover. And let me just say

95% of the things in there I 100% agree

with. It's preaching to the choir. But there's one thing that you guys preach that uh my wife agrees with and I don't.

>> Oh, I love it. What is it?

>> That is paying off your mortgage.

>> I'll give you a little >> What a silly idea, >> right? No. >> So, we have a $327,478.50

mortgage right now >> with a 3.625 interest rate.

>> And I have been very adamantly against paying that off for the last several years >> because if we invest our money very conservatively, very safely, high yield savings account, money market account, it's been at 4 and a.5 to 5% for the last several years. Just recently it got down to 3.8. 8. And my question to you

is why oh why would I pay off my

mortgage when I can make more having it

in conservative basically guaranteed money versus uh at 3.8 versus uh you

know getting back 3.625 by paying it off. >> Adam, would you believe would you believe >> 3.2,000 a year >> right now? Would you believe you're the first person to ever hit us with that?

I figured I wasn't, but uh again I >> Here's the question. You are not the first person. You are correct, sir.

George, tell him why. Do you have $327,000 sitting in that savings account?

>> Uh so not a savings. So we've got uh in

money market account right now. We have enough to pay off our house. >> That's what I'm saying. So you have the money to pay it off. >> Oh yes, sir. And >> but you like to see it grow at 3.8%.

Which, by the way, you owe taxes on all the money you're making from that. You understand that? So it's not apples to apples already. >> The interest can be written off taxes wise.

So >> the mortgage interest is what you're saying because you guys itemize every year. >> Correct. >> Okay. So I can give you the logical math answer and that's where you're going to want to spar.

But it's so far beyond that. And what your wife is getting at is it's not about the math. She does not care if you guys could make a thousand and you didn't that year because you paid off the mortgage. Because the other part you're not taking into account is once you free up that mortgage payment, number one, you can invest that amount and you'll likely be back to where you were pretty quickly.

I assume you guys have a great income the way you're talking. >> Uh, pretty good.

>> Okay. So, can we agree that you could save up 300,000 bucks pretty quickly with your income if you had zero debt?

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. Next question. Are you going to be

broke in retirement if you pay off your mortgage and liquidate that investment account? No, absolutely not. >> So, the argument is, do I want 5.6 million in retirement when I am 63 or

will it be 5.3 but with a paid for mortgage?

>> Can we agree that's kind of what we're It's kind of like both scenarios are pretty great. We can agree there.

>> Yeah. >> The other question, are you both working full-time right now?

>> Yes. >> Now, let's play this out. What if somebody lost their job, had a health situation, there was a recession, all of

the factors that can happen in life to where now you go, "Oh gosh, I'd rather not have a mortgage when life comes at me." >> So that's why I have the money in things where I'm not going to lose. I'm not going to put this money in the S&P 500

or some one of the markets that can fluctuate day by day. This isn't something that is safe like I was talking about either high yield savings accounts or the money market to where I can take that money out any time. If we did lose our job or let's say the money market or high yield savings accounts got down to 3.5. I could just take that

money and pay off the mortgage that day.

>> Okay. Well, have fun having a disagreement in your marriage for the rest of your life. >> Oh, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

>> That's not fair. >> Her security glands flaring up. It's not because of Ramsay. It's because there's something in her that knows that peace is more than just the spread. And that's what she's after. Nobody can come after your house. You own it free and clear.

If life happens, you're going to be okay. And the truth is, you're probably going to be okay either way. And so

paying it off, do you really think you'd sit there and go, gosh, I could have made $5,000 this year off that savings

account. Or you going to go, man, it feels good to not have a mortgage. And the flexibility we now have, the options we now have, the freedom we now have was well worth it.

Yeah, and I agree. I think it's a little bit of both. I think uh nobody's ever going to regret not having a mortgage.

Nobody's going to say, "Man, I wish I had my mortgage back." But uh you know, part of me would always be like, "Ah gosh, that's $2,000 this year. I could have bought a new >> How much do you guys make something?" You know, >> um I do about 140 150 a year and she

does uh probably 200 250.

>> Okay. So $2,000 is a drop in the bucket.

We can both It's like kind of saying I'm doing the credit card game for the rewards. I like getting two grand free and I know it's not a big amount, but it just feels nice, >> right? >> Yeah. You know, I'm sitting here listening, by the way, I'm always on this side like either I'm on with Dave or I'm on with a money personality and this call comes in and I'm always just sitting here, you know, it's like letting them do it and I'm like and I'm just listening for what's really going on.

there's two things I heard you say a minute ago and George started talking.

He talked over. He was so rude. So, I didn't pick up what he what you said, but I thought you said about the $2,000

>> and then like I could have bought a mountain bike. Did you say that or am I hearing things? >> Yeah, I was I was just kidding around.

But yeah, could be weren't. But see, you weren't.

I I'm not a money expert, but I can tell you this. I've coached over 15,000 people live before. I'm an expert at hearing things and seeing things. And when I heard that, I went, "That's not a joke." And I'm going to tell you what I think's going on with this thing between you and your wife.

because George has explained it beautifully. So, I have nothing to add to that. But, let me tell you what I think's going on. Your wife is looking at this emotionally and you're looking at this logically.

And I think you look at all money things as logic.

You're a smart guy. You're not a goofball. You're not a loser. You've been very wise with money. I just think you're going to have to decide in this situation, how important is it to me to

make the $2,000 every year and either bank it or buy the mountain bike off of my interest and I feel so good about my logical choice or do I want to meet my

wife where she is and where she is emotionally and help her feel safe. I think that's the choice. That's my read and I think you just look at it totally different than she does. I think you need to walk a mile in her shoes for a little bit.

>> The question is, is it worth paying 12 grand in interest to make 12 grand in a savings account? Basic math tells me it's a wash, dude. I'm just going to [music] pay it off and get some peace in my life and happy wife.

[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show coming to you from the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dan joins us next in Mesa, Arizona. Dan, how can we help you today?

>> Yes, sir. [music] Thank you for uh taking the call. I've been suffering in poverty for uh all my life pretty much and uh I have a plan uh and uh there's

some details around that but that's my question. >> Okay, tell us more. >> How do I get out of this poverty? What do am I on the right track and what can I do? >> Well, okay, let's start with where you are. Uh what is your income?

>> Right now I have income of about 1,400 with social security disability and I have a part-time labor job for about a

100red a week. My income last year on taxes was about just under 21K, which is

impossible to live on, of course. >> Yeah. Now, I'm I'm curious about the the

um the um disability because you're working

part-time. What is the part-time job?

>> The part-time job is working at the grocery store as a courtesy clerk, bagging groceries, lifting water, pushing old lady carts out for them, trying I try to make people feel good and have a blessing. I'm the last face they see before they walk up. >> Dan, you're a Dan, you're a good man.

What but what is your what is your disability and how does it limit you from working more?

>> Well, I'm

it's it's psychiatric. I've had I've had deep trauma in childhood >> and I've been in recovery from alcoholism for 28 years coming up December 4th. But there's a lot of these uh underlying issues and problems which have really prevented me from >> thinking clearly about money uh making clear good choices and um you know making bad decisions like that. So the the disabilities I can't really function that good in a workplace and a lot of depression and personality problems but

>> Well, how are you doing at the grocery store? >> Well, I do excellent at the grocery store. >> And why do you think that is?

because I started doing a special therapy for trauma called EMDR in March.

>> Yeah. >> And it took me from staring at the wall for a year and a half to uh working feeling good and taking a uh I took a training and got a certificate in Google data analytics uh uh from March until now. >> Way to go. >> I'm looking to uplevel. I'm trying to uplevel, but the thing is I got to get off social security for the first time since 2000, which is somewhat terrifying. >> I think that's the root of this.

>> I do too. And Dan, I want to tell you,

keep at it. And I would ask your therapist, get a professional opinion on

whether or not you, she or he feels like you can go to full-time work. Let's take some baby steps to this. And let's move

into if we can full-time at the grocery store because you're psychologically safe there right now. Sounds like.

>> Well, the problem I can't do full-time at the grocery store, which is a complex thing about the way they do their positions. I tried that in March which didn't turn out. So that's what made me turn back towards tech because I went to graduate school for research methods in the 90s, right? And I've got all the statistical background and now we've got all this new technology.

AI coming, data analytics is hot.

um and you're doing some work and so I think getting some wins here is super important. You would agree with that, correct? Not just financial wins, but psychological, mental, and emotional wins. So, here's where I'm going, Dan.

I would have never guessed, nor would anybody in this vast audience would have ever guessed the trauma. We still don't know. It's none of our business. But we wouldn't have guessed any of that based on how you described how you treat people and what you do at the grocery store.

So, I'm gonna tell you something, man. I just I wish I could reach through the phone and give you a hug and say that I think you're stronger than you think you are.

heard thousands upon thousands of calls,

I I heard a man who is full of joy. and

not only full of joy, but like gives joy. I got goosebumps when you described

that you want to be the last face they see as they go to their car. I mean, there's a guy who's been through so much pain and has made it through just enough

to be able to give joy when you've had

very little joy.

So, there's my locker room speech, Dan.

But here's where I'm going. If the grocery store won't move you to fulltime, what about Target? What about

Walmart? What about any other big box stores who need somebody like you who's going to show up broken? Yes. Joyful?

Yes. And you're going to give yourself away. I'd like to see you take that step

and let's see if we can get full-time pay and some benefits at one of those bigger stores >> and share some of your story. Don't share all the darkness. Don't share. But just go, "Hey, I've been through a lot.

I'm 28 years sober." I hear that from somebody and I go, "Rock on, baby.

I I I have mad respect for you, Dan."

So, I want you to carry that and let's see if we can get to one of those roles, get more income in, and get off of Social Security while we are making the

inroads and connecting. And I'm gonna give you my book, The Proximity Principle is my gift to help you make connections to get into technology. Now, that's my that's my little speech, but I

meant every word of it. And I think >> I appreciate you. That was amazing. That really helps me a lot.

>> In my heart. >> Well, good. Because I think your head and your heart need to get on the same page. >> Yes, sir. >> You've lost trust in Dan, and we're telling you he's worth trusting in again. It's worth betting on yourself.

>> I stand with Dan. I'd call every store

in Mesa and I'd vouch for you

because there's no there's nobody among us today that doesn't have some brokenness.

So, I think you're going to have to step up a ladder on this. >> Yeah. The way out of this is income. And the good news is if you make so much working that you lose SSDI, good.

>> That's great. >> That's exactly what you wanted, isn't it? Cuz that's the only path out of this is making enough that you can lose it and not miss it. and cover your bills.

>> George, take two minutes and walk him through step by step. Let's assume he's gotten that money now. Walk him through setting up a budget and trusting himself that he doesn't need social security.

>> Yeah. Right now you're going, "Well, budget what money?" You know, you don't have enough coming in. But once you have three $4,000 coming in and your expenses stay where they are at, I'm assuming 2,000 bucks a month. How how much are you living off of right now?

>> 1,800. >> 1,800. So, can you imagine having an extra,000 or 2,000 bucks left over after your bills are covered? What kind of life that could provide for you?

Your ability to save, to invest, to give, cuz I can tell you're a generous guy who has a heart for that. It's going to change everything. So, you list out your income, you list out your expenses, and the good news, there's going to be money left over when you believe in yourself and go, I'm going to do the kind of work that I was made to do.

You're passionate about serving people.

And that could be through analytics.

That could be at Target. It doesn't matter. The key is you're worth more than a hundred bucks a week. Can we agree on that? >> Yes, sir. >> Dan, I'm gonna tell you those tears are

not a sign of weakness, man.

>> Well, these jobs, you know, they start at 100K. These jobs.

>> Yeah. >> I've been on disability since 2000. If I got a $6,000 take-home check, [laughter]

I'd be on my knees. I'd be walking around. >> So, let me tell you what you're going to do. You're going to get yourself a ticket and you're going to come to Nashville and you're going to wait to meet George and I in the lobby. We're going to come out and we're going to give you a big bear hug and we're going to have the whole lobby just cheer. Dan.

Dan. Dan. Dan. Let me tell you something. The Dan we're talking to today who's here today and made the call today has got enough strength to be the Dan that you want to be. You better believe that, my man. Hang on the line.

We're going to get you the proximity principle. That is your homework assignment [music] to get that $100,000 a year job.

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[music]

[music] >> Miguel joins us in Los Angeles, California. Miguel, how can we help?

>> Hello, guys. Thank first of all, thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. >> Yeah, you bet. What's going on?

>> Yeah, well, I simply just need help figuring out what to do with my home and debt situation. Uh, if I may give you a brief background, my wife and I bring home about $11,000 a month, including

$1,000 from a ADU that we rent out. But

our mortgage has a balance of 182,000.

Uh, it's a 15-year loan with 2.5% and we

make a payment about $1,950.

But we also have a heliloc with a high balance of $160,000 at around 9% that we're paying $1,200 of

interest every month. Now, aside from that, we have about $27,000 in other debt. So, my question is, should I

refinance my existing mortgage and HELOC

together to make one payment even though

I'd lose the 2 and a.5% rate?

>> What' you take out the heliloc for?

Well, it was before I knew about you guys, but I uh had about $30,000 in

credit card debt that I paid off and to

build that ADU that [snorts] I built for my mom to to live in.

>> So, 30,000 turned into 160.

>> Well, 30,000 of credit card debt and then 130 for the ADU.

>> Got it. Okay. I would not roll this into

one giant loan. Number one, it doesn't change the behavior. And number two, it's not going to change the numbers all that month, all that much. Now, your HELOC being at 160 and your annual income, what's your gross household income? Are we talking like 175, 180?

>> Yeah, around 170, 175.

>> Okay. So, because the HELOC is over half your annual income, you can kind of lump it into baby step six, which means you're focused on paying off that other 27,000 right now. And once that's knocked out, we'll just tackle the 160 with your fantastic income, which is going to go pretty fast. And let that interest fuel your anger towards this and towards the mistakes to go never again. I'm not going to put myself in this position.

>> Now, now, George, uh even though we bring those $11,000 a month, and in the

past before I knew knew about you guys, we were only saving about $1,500

uh per month. So, I want to know what are the Ramsey approved things that we are allowed to pay each month like utilities, insurance, and what else should go to to debt? I'm curious about that. >> Well, you cover your four walls: food, utilities, housing, transportation.

You're going to cover your insurance, and you're going to cover all of your minimum debt payments. Outside of that, zero spending. We're not eating out.

We're not upgrading things for fun.

We're not buying furniture. It is survival mode. And then you have 11,000.

If we can cut your spending down to 4,000, there's $7,000 left to throw at the debt.

You see how the math works on this?

>> Yeah, I can see it going away pretty pretty quick. >> Yeah. Well, your 27,000 is gone in just a few months. Less than four months, you'd clear that. If you can live off of four and throw the other seven at debt.

So, I don't know what your expenses are.

You're going to have to make a budget tonight with your wife. You can use every dollar to do that and go, "All right, we make 11. Our barebones expenses to get by is $5,000. Well, that

means you got six grand left to throw at your smallest debt, which means it's getting knocked out quick. And once you knock out the 27, you freed up a bunch of payments, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I wouldn't have any other other >> And you guys have any savings?

Well, we had about $20,000 in savings that I used to pay additionally about that 27,000 in debt that we had some car loans and um uh some other uh medical

bills. >> Oh, so you liquidated savings to pay off debt. And so now you're back to how much in there?

>> It's only a,000. >> Okay. So once you're done with this consumer debt, the 27, I would go through that baby step three process and save up 3 to 6 months and then kind of put that heliloc in that baby step six territory. And that way cuz it's going to take a little while.

And so if we lump it in kind of next to that mortgage, it'll wait a little while to get there. And that interest, it'll get knocked out quicker than you think. When you guys have 11 grand uh with a lot of margin left to throw at it, you can be done with this thing.

>> I mean, if it's available, yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't mind. Both my wife and I are locked into getting this paid off as soon as possible. So, I say >> then we're talking two years.

>> Oh, nice. >> And so, instead of hanging on to the Sealock forever, rolling it into a giant loan that you then take 15 years to pay off, you can knock it out in two if you keep it separate.

>> Awesome. >> That's what I would do, man. Thanks, Miguel. Appreciate the call. You got this. Let's go to Tracy in New Hampshire. Tracy, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I'm calling because my husband recently lost his job and we're currently looking at health insurance through my employer and we're looking at a high deductible plan and I'm wondering

if we should put money in the HSA that will be attached to that plan or if we should put that money into savings or if we should apply it towards debt. Great question. Do you know of any kind of upcoming medical expenses you might need to cover?

>> Um, yeah. So, I um have pushed off an

MRI that I'm going to need on my knee.

And so, that's been scheduled for January. So, that will be about $1,300.

And depending on um how that comes out,

I will either need a surgery or that that's where my doctor thinks that we're going to end up um and maybe um physical therapy if not. >> Okay. In that case, I would fund the HSA with as much as you're going to need. And so, you kind of run it through there. You can kind of use it as a scing fund. I wouldn't overfund it right now in baby step 2, but if you know you're going to have $2,000 worth of medical expenses, let's at least fund $2,000 worth of HSA in there for the year.

>> Okay. So, my employer will put in um

about 1,400 for the year um just by

signing up for that plan. We don't have to put anything into the HSA.

>> Wow. So you would Yeah, that part is like really great and that was one of the reasons why we were really considering that as the plan to go with.

Um so um so since we know that we're

going to have to pay for the MRI um the

deductible for one individual, it's going to it's 5,500.

Um so initially I was looking at putting 7,000 for the year in >> You're not going to need seven grand in there.

Okay. So, >> I wouldn't be maxing it out. I wouldn't be overfunding it. You can you're going to get 1,400 from your employer.

You can then set up kind of a syncing fund style where you go, "Hey, I'm going to take out 200 from each paycheck. That way, there's 2,400 in there after 12 months." And that'll sort of cover the ongoing medical expenses you have or dental, vision work for the family, anything like that going on.

>> Okay. >> Once you're in baby step four, you can look at maxing that out outside of your 15% retirement.

>> Okay. Baby step four. Um and then so for

right now, um should we be taking any

extra money? So, um, my husband

literally last week lost his job. Um, so

>> should we be taking any extra money and just putting that into savings until he gets another full-time job or what would you recommend um for >> Yeah, you guys are in storm mode right now. So, I would be living on a barebones budget. Just cover the essentials. Food, housing, utilities, transportation, insurance. Do you have any uh you have your debt, so make your minimum debt payments, but you may want to pause on the debt snowball until we have some stability. >> What was his income?

>> Um he made his base income was 4,800 per

month and then he made quarterly commissions on top of that.

>> Okay. And did he get any kind of severance?

>> Um no, but he will qualify for unemployment, but that won't kick in for a few more weeks. But um >> we don't want that. We do not want that.

I'm going to tell you what I'm going to tell you this right now. And as his wife, I'm glad you're on the call. Um, research has shown that losing a job, whether you're laid off, fired, doesn't matter. It's the emotional equivalent of losing a loved one. He's in a really tough spot right now. And I'm going to tell you, one of the best things he can do is to actually just go get a job. I

know it's it's an interim, right? But just some type of work just to be

staying active. He's still contributing.

Is it going to be as much as he was making? Maybe, maybe not. But I would go get a job while he's looking for the next right job. That's super important.

I would encourage him. You can tell him, "I said that, but let's get some more money coming in. We don't want to go to unemployment.

[music]

[music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Ashley joining us now in San Francisco,

California. Ashley, how can we help?

>> Hi, thank you for having me. >> You bet. What's going on? >> I am a I am a uh small business um

owner. I've been in business for about 5 years and I've been doing pretty well financially for the last four years um until January hit and now a lot of the

current administration's policies have hit about every single section of my job. >> What business are you? What tell me about your business?

>> So, um I'm a consulting firm that helps to support humanitarian initiatives with corporations, colleges, and school districts. So essentially they bring me in as a consultant to repurpose their furniture and fixed assets with charities around the world.

>> Okay. And I'm just curious, not trying to get into a political rabbit hole, but how how are the how are the current policies affecting your income?

>> So first off, you know, we're we're a womenowned certified small business. So the DEI initiative, we took a pretty hard hit with that in January. um the

grants for the university is being revoked. Um that caused some cash crunches for some of the the programs and some of the projects that they do traditionally over the summer. >> Gotcha. >> Um you know, funding for the public schools, you know, obviously if they don't if programs are being let go or,

>> you know, Department of Education is, you know, being restructured, all of those things, school districts are downsizing themselves and kind of wondering how they're going to have the programs that they need to take care of their students, >> right? And then the obviously the tariffs which we all know that's a subject in and of itself but how are those factors combined? >> Okay. All right. So bottom line is is that money has dried up. What was coming in freely to pay for your consultancy uh services have dried up.

>> Yeah. And what where I'm at right now is like I've done you know I knew that this was coming. So you know as as each hit kept coming into play you know I kept restructuring kept trying to shift things. you know, I started laying people off. I, you know, I changed insurance plans for benefits for the employees I still had. You know, tried to reduce costs across the board. But now I'm at a a situation where um my

husband got sick and he was hospitalized for two months and he's also my business partner. So, we're at a point right now where um I'm starting to get work in

queue for next spring, like heavy in for next spring and potentially next summer.

>> Great. But obviously that is not going to help me now.

>> Um because I still have I have some pretty goodiz bills that I still owe.

>> And how many full-time team members do you have? Like what does your payroll look like?

>> Right now it's just me. >> Okay. So it's just you. What kind of debt do you have?

>> Um so basically I've got one vendor right now that I'm about 140 days overdue that I owe him 60,000.

>> Um >> what's that debt for?

Um it's so basically in I work with

thirdparty vendors at times. Um some entities that I work with want an all in in they want an all-inclusive cost for my service. So um there is some of my work that I do sub subcontract out. So

um >> I'm still confused how you just took on 60 grand in debt. >> Yeah. Did you get paid and then you kept it and didn't pay the defender?

Basically what ended up happening was over the course of the summer um I had to let all of my employees go. And so basically in order to do that I had to pay out all of their medical expenses, their insurance, their vacation time and all of that. So by the time everything was all said and done so that I didn't have the IRS on my back, um it was either pay them or

um basically pay my vendor is ultimately what it came down to. So, I'm in a situation right now where I need to pay them the money that's rightfully owed them >> and also what's your total debt and all of that. >> My total debt right now is 250,000.

>> 250,000. Where's the rest of this debt?

>> Yeah. So, I've got right now I have um

so 60,000 60,000 for that. Um I have a

couple of vehicles on the company which are about which equal to about 90,000.

I've got credit card debt for about 80,000.

Um, I have an office lease here for about 5,000.

>> Goodness gracious. >> Insurance and all that other stuff. >> Okay, this is a highly leveraged business. >> Yeah, this is crazy. Uh, just a practical question. How >> how much money do you have you've laid it out how much money you've got to bring in to cover the basics?

>> Yeah, I mean, I have that figured out. I mean, up until this year, I was I was bringing in over I was I was grossing

last year, I grossed 2.5 million, and this year I'll be lucky to >> No, no, I get it. I'm just saying, do you are you going to be able to take care of you and your husband?

>> Can you make all of your payments and cover all your bills right now as it stands? >> And that's why I'm calling you guys is because right now I'm trying I'm at a point right now where I am real.

>> So, there's zero income coming in this month. >> Yes or no? I we're not getting a straight answer from you.

>> There is income coming in. Yes. But it's what I'm looking for is I'm at a point right now where I'm just realizing that I'm not realizing, but there's expenses or there's bills that I know that I'm going to need to pay that I need to cover between now and April of next year. >> So, and you don't have any contracts coming in. So, >> get contracts when we get a different job. And is your husband working now? Is he back to

>> My husband is back. I do I do have contracts, but as a small business owner, the contracts that are confirmed that are over a h 100,000 don't hit until next spring.

>> We I understand that. I understand that.

I'm not talking about next April. I'm talking to a lady who's absolutely drowning in debt. And I'm wondering how you and your husband are going to pay your bills. I haven't heard anything on this call about how you make money between now and April.

>> And that's why I'm calling you guys is to say, "What are my potential options?" Now, >> I know, but I got to get a straight I can start with this. We can sell the $90,000 worth of cars we have.

>> Sell the cars.

>> I'm guessing you're underwater on both of them. >> Go get a job. >> What are the cars worth?

>> The cars The cars are under lease right now. >> They're a lease.

>> Yes, they're leased. >> Then what's where's the 90,000 in car loan debt?

>> Um because that's when the leases run out. That's how much the leases are for right now for the contract.

>> Goodness gracious. Why do you need luxury cars to run a humanitarian consulting firm?

>> They're not luxury cars. They're used for transportation >> like vans. >> They're business. Yes, they're Yes, they're for business use. >> Okay. And right now, >> you live in California. It's not It's not cheap living here. >> Yeah. Well, that's my next question. Do we need to move out?

You're living in one of the highest cost cities in America.

So, can you do this business from elsewhere? >> Where am I where am I going to go? because anywhere that I go, I'm going to have to I'm going to have to provide three times my income.

>> Well, again, >> small business owner to boo. >> I I agree. I appreciate George. That's not the right question. The question that we've got to answer, and you keep saying, well, that's why I called you guys and I got bad news for you. We don't make money for people.

>> I can tell you >> I'm not looking to make money. What I'm what I'm saying is I'm >> I don't want to go I don't want to go out right now and get a loan and end up

with something like the gentleman who had mentioned that he had an ridiculous interest rate. >> Yeah, we're not we're never going to suggest you get a loan. What I'm saying is maybe this business needs to pause right now if you can't get contracts and both of you need to get full-time jobs doing other things or four side jobs each in order to cover the bill >> during this storm. everything, >> which would be great except that my husband is in rehab right now.

>> You just told me he was back to work.

>> He's back to work part-time. Yes, but he's in a he's in a rehabilitation facility. >> Okay. So, then it's on you.

>> Yes, it's on me. >> That's what we're trying to say. We're not mad at you, but we're we're sort of frustrated for you to go, Ashley. The fix here is you got to bring in some income now in the short term or this

whole thing. It may not be from your business if that's not a viable solution, which means it isn't. Use your skills to go do something else right now to float you until those contracts come in. Then we can write the ship. But right now, you built a house of cards with all of this debt that's mounted.

So, there's pressure. >> And while we're at it, while we're throwing a lot of advice at you because But you got to get on the phone with this vendor and go, "Let me tell you my story.

Here's what I had to do. your story is the best policy, the truth, and I owe you and I'm going to pay you and I got this much coming in in April, but you have got to batten down the hatches.

It's an old phrase to get ready for the

storm cuz you were in the middle of it.

The winds are howling. And what we're telling you is you got to go get some income in for you and your husband first and foremost. It's just you as the employee now. So, we're not worried about that. and and I'd go to the vendor and I'd explain what's going on and come up with a plan. But I mean, we're talking about urgency and that's all we got for you.

>> You're you might need to pivot this business. If the grant money's all dried up and nobody's coming for you for the contracts, we're going to have to figure out another way to make this work long term.

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>> [music]

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coverage. Now, I'm going to say that again because between the hash and the dash, I'd want somebody to say it again for me. And so, I'm a man of the people, so I'm going to say it. It's ramiesolutions.comalth-

coverage. The dash symbol, that's important. Or honestly, if you're like me and you never will remember that, go to the show notes because it's just a

link in the show notes. And so, all right, >> don't make Ken type things out. >> Don't make >> he will fat finger it. [laughter] >> And I have narrow fingers, by the way.

>> 404 user error. That's what Ken gets.

>> Well played, George. Tom is up in Dallas, Texas. Tom, how can we help?

>> Yes, sir. Good afternoon. Um, I'm

nervous about retiring. I don't know

what to do. Uh, I'm of the age and uh,

my situation would allow it. I'm just too used to getting up at 3:00 a.m. and going to work and working 10 12 hours a day. >> Wow. I think this is actually a really fun uh, problem. I don't even think you have a problem and I I'm really excited to walk you through this. Let's get some of the the details. You are how old, Tom?

I'll be 70 here right right quick.

>> Fantastic. And uh how much money do you have in retirement accounts?

>> About 500 500,000.

>> Okay. And because you said I'm of the age and of the means where I can walk away. So uh is it just you? Are you married?

>> Yes, I am married. >> Okay. And does your wife have any retirement accounts?

>> No. Uh there's a 19-year spread between

us. She's still working, still enjoying what she's doing. >> All right. Way to go, Tom, with the younger lady. Very impressive, sir. Um

so, uh your social security, if you walked away today, what would that be?

>> I had my my fiduciary has talked me into

collecting now instead of waiting to get the extra $300. Uh, so right now after

the taxes I'm having them pull out now is 3,400 a month.

>> And you have any other source of income?

Pensions, anything else? Rental income.

>> Yeah, there's a very small pension.

>> Okay. So, it's basically your $3,400 a month of social security plus your $500,000 that you could withdraw from.

Correct. >> Yeah.

>> And what is your $3,800 pension?

>> What's your wife's income?

about uh 30,000 a year.

>> Okay. So, do I understand you to say that if and I'm not saying you want to, but if you were to retire today and walk away, do you feel financially like you'd be very comfortable?

>> I that's the question. I' I've never had

a budget. I've only started listening to you guys lately. Everything I have, motorcycle, bass boats, house, everything is paid for. >> Good. >> I I owe no one nothing. So your monthly

expenses between her 30,000 and your 4,000 if you didn't even touch the retirement accounts, you could live off of that just fine.

>> Oh yeah. >> Okay. And so really now it becomes a I'm just used to working for the last 40 plus years and getting up early. You can still get up early.

Nobody's going to stop you from doing that. And you can still work. It just doesn't have to be obviously in the job you've been at for 40 years. So now you go, okay, I've got a lot of skill that I have accumulated over all these years working.

I've got a lot of experience. So it's not just skill, but it's just know how to use the skill. You know what you enjoy doing after all these years. So if it were me, Tom, and and I actually preach this all the time.

You know, if you want to keep getting up at 3:00 a.m., find something to do between 3:00 am and, you know, whatever time you would go to work.

Do you have to work 40 hours a week? No.

So those 10 12 hour days, you don't have to do that anymore, but you can do something you really enjoy that actually produces a result that you care about.

And I think that's what you're looking for at this stage of life. If financially it's the it's the right move.

>> Yeah. Um our nut every month is only

about $900 to $1,000.

Um yeah, just the the four walls. If you >> You're saying your total expenses are a,000 bucks a month?

>> Yeah. Water, electric, all all of that stuff. >> Well, that's great news. That's great.

You guys are very frugal. Yeah.

>> Is the house paid for? >> Yeah. Yes, sir.

>> Wow. Tom, way to go.

>> You could have retired off much less, my friend. You could have retired 10 years ago. >> I mean, the reality is, Tom, when I look at this just on on paper, you you've got a lot of margin just on your social security check.

Oh, and I and I realize that what I'm having an issue with is how to not come

in and sit on a bulldozer all day because I really enjoy it.

>> You do enjoy sitting on the bulldozer.

>> Yeah. >> Get you a little bulldozer in the backyard and you just go out there and sit. [laughter] You just enjoy just enjoy the weather.

>> You know what? That's not a bad idea.

But no, you know what, Tom? Let's ask it this way.

What would walking away from that job, would there be anything about that you would go, that's a relief or I'm kind of glad I'm not doing that?

>> Yeah, my bosses are all the same age as my oldest kids and [laughter] um I just

this is not the industry I came to work in. >> Okay, let me ask you this.

Um, what is it worth it to you to look around and see if there's any older guys that have a small small business and they need somebody reliable and they they're pulling their hair out because they've been trying to get like 22 year olds to show up and be dependable and and everything else and you come along, they go, "You're kidding me. You've been doing this for 40 years and you want to continue to to to drive a bulldozer and you go, I do, sir." And he's going to go, "How much you want to get paid?" I think that's possible.

>> Um, yeah, it takes some investigation.

Yeah. Yeah. >> I think that's what I would look to.

Somebody out there, Tom, is a is

probably closer to your age or a little bit different culture, what you're looking for, and they need somebody like you that knows knows how to operate a large machine.

And I think that's there. They don't care how old you are.

>> I think you've got some homework to do.

uh >> you've had this laid out in front of you where you just go, "Well, I got to wake up and go to work and now it's time for you to dream again." And that's the scary part. So, I would sit down and write down all the things you could do, want to do, want to try. Write down a schedule of what your life would look like, and then go try it. Take a week off and go, I'm going to try this out and see if I like it.

And if you don't, change it up. That's right. And maybe your wife is scared that you're going to be laying around the house bothering her. Is that part of the deal?

[laughter] >> Oh, no.

>> Yep. I I have too many hobbies and too many projects. >> What's the hobby you wish you had more time for right now?

>> Uh fishing, working in my shop.

>> You could spend all day doing that. What would you What would you make in the shop?

>> I've worked on everything but a submarine and a satellite, and that's cuz they can't get them to me.

[laughter] >> Wow. I love Tom. No, Tom. I I appreciate

the funny answer. No one loves having more fun on the show than me, but give me an answer. What would be something that you would make in the shop? If you were focused on one thing you're like, I could actually fix this or make this and somebody would buy it. What would come to mind?

>> Uh, automobile parts. I I build

everything I drive. I I build it from the ground up.

I just wonder, Tom, if you don't just start a little fun mechanic business or

whatever, whatever that is, Tom's brakes

and rotors. >> Yeah, you're talking to the two wrong guys to classify that. But we we know

what you're saying. I just wonder if you don't start that on the side for a bit and see how that goes, you know. Um,

yeah, I I I did years ago and uh was was

good at it and and um customers thought

they own me, so I kind of backpedalled out of it. >> Well, now it's on your terms. >> Yeah. You know your way around a clutch pack piston, Tom? [laughter] >> What are you talking about?

>> I just wanted to see. I wanted to test his knowledge. >> Tom, is that a thing?

>> Well, yeah. Yeah, that's a thing. But I

don't buy it from the store. I just build it. That's right. Builds it >> like a real American. >> I think you start your own business today in your head and start doing it.

Start customizing Tom stuff. No customer. >> I wish I had a Tom in my neighborhood. He could really help me out. >> I put Tom to work.

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[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken

Coleman. George Campbell joins me and we're going to talk to Stephanie here in Las Vegas. Stephanie, how can we help today? >> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's going on?

>> So, my husband and I can't agree on a budget for buying a house. How can I convince him to up our budget?

>> I have some if you want it.

>> Well, yeah. You got to lay the case out. You gotta pretend like George and I are u Supreme Court judges and we got to hear the facts because we don't know. We don't know who's right, who's wrong, and you're telling us uh I want help making

the case to up the spend on the house.

So, yes, >> break it down for us.

>> Okay. Okay, we're currently a single inome military family, but my husband will be retiring in the next 2 to 3 years, and that's when we'll be buying a house. After my husband retires, we'll have dual income, plus we'll have his retirement check, so we'll be making a lot more money than we're currently making. And over the last 18 years, we saved a good amount of money and we because we're frugal, both of us, and we've earmarked about $300,000 as like a down payment.

My husband wants to buy a house basically all in cash and is only concerned about the price. So, he doesn't care about the area that we live in or that with that budget, the house is most likely going to be a fixer upper.

with the mindset that we pay it off as quickly as we can because we're frugal and we'll have that additional income.

The math comes out that our mortgage would be less than 25% of our take-home pay at that time. Um, and my concern is

that I want a good school district for my kids and a good area for us to live in. And I'd prefer a house that we don't need to put a lot of work into because we've lived in some crummy places being in the military the last 18 years. And so I just want to settle down and have a nice house that we can relax and enjoy.

>> That all sounded so reasonable.

>> So where is he coming from that he is frightened by the idea of, I don't know, a $1,500 mortgage?

>> I don't know. I we as adult, like our

whole adult life since we've been married, we've never had any debt at all. We've never bought a car and took

out a loan on it, like any of that stuff. So, I don't know if it's just that we'd be taking a large loan and we've never owed money before.

>> When you say large loan, you mean the 150? >> Yes. The $150,000.

I mean, that's large to us. >> And what would the payment be? You've done the math. Is it about 1,500 on a 15-year fixed? >> It would be 1,500. Yes.

>> Okay. And then your take-home pay would be 67 $8,000 a month.

>> Yeah. Our take only pay would be a little over $8,000 a month.

>> Okay. So, this is all very reasonable.

It's all green flags as far as the Ramsey parameters. And I think the part we need to compromise on is you going, "Hey, we're going to have an aggressive plan to pay this thing off early." So, if you said, "Hey, we're taking on this 150. We're going to knock it out in two years." Would he say, "Okay, great."

>> I I don't know.

I know that he's just very concerned about that amount of money and I don't know if it's from growing up like childhood money issues or if it's just

that it's such a large amount.

>> Sure. Well, this is not a consumer debt.

So, we're not going to put it in the category of this is stupid. We're always going to encourage 100% down if you can.

Uh but if this is something where hey, three years from now we we need to buy a house. If you want to wait a year and just keep stacking cash and get even closer, that might be a good compromise, too. But I don't like this idea that unless we have the cash, we're never we're not going to do this at all or we're going to get a fixer upper.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah, you're on my side.

>> Yeah, I'm on your team. The question is he needs to be willing to come to your side a little bit.

>> Okay. >> There needs to be a little bit of negotiation so he can feel like, all right, I want a little bit >> and I that's the part I want to address.

So Stephanie, based on what you know, you talked with George, what what do you think is the emotional holdup? What, in

other words, what do we need to address with him to where he goes, "Oh, I'm not giving into my wife. I actually see it the way she sees it. There's something that's holding him back. What is it specifically?" >> Um, I think that he likes to be in control with money and just like in general being like

the leader of the house. I don't know.

And so like having no control I like feeling of not having control because we owe this money. I think that's part of his like hangup that >> But can I tell you what's behind that?

>> Sure. >> Fear, >> right? >> And have you guys had a conversation about this where it got tense or has it all been pretty chill?

>> Oh, no. I mean, we've talked about this for probably two years now and we literally cannot agree. So, this has been a two-year >> Is it tense >> discussion in our household? Um, no. He

just shuts down the conversation basically. >> Well, that's tense.

>> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. I was going to say when someone when the other part of the of the marriage shuts the other one down, that's tense. I don't care how it's done. It's still tense.

>> I think you're going to have to sit with him and go, "Hey, I want to understand.

I'm not trying to convince you anymore.

Mhm. >> We've [clears throat] gone round and round and round, but I do want to understand.

>> Okay. >> I I want to understand. And you can blame George and I. You called us up.

You You know, if you don't think that's going to upset him because it's not like three. What it can't sound like is three against one. >> Well, I told him I was calling you guys.

>> And how did how did he feel about that?

>> He said, "Okay." He said, "Hopefully, they take my side." >> Okay, great. Well, well, I you Here's what you can say. Here's what George said. And then you could say, "Ken took your side, but Ken didn't take your money side. Ken took your emotional side."

>> Okay? >> And I mean this.

>> Mhm. >> And and here's where I'm going. He is allowed to be fearful.

>> Mhm. >> He is allowed to because there's

something in his past that shapes the way he views money and and the where he

institutes control.

And I don't and I appreciate what you said like he's got to be the man of the house. That's not what it is. It comes across probably as bravado, but that's not what it is. He's a scared little boy and I'm not insulting him.

[clears throat] >> I'm I'm telling you as a guy who's had to deal with control issues once I got to the fact that it was about fear of something and then I had to dig deeper and go, what was I afraid of? And it goes way, way, way back. And so on some level, he has that. So the reason I'm telling you that is not to judge him or belittle him, but for you to have some empathy for him and then compassion toward his point of view.

>> And when you sit with him and walk through his point of view as the counter

to all your points of view and you go, I totally understand that. What if I told you that this, you know, and you then you take George's layout. I George, I want you to come in and tie a bow on this, but that's what I'm hearing. >> Yeah, I feel that. I definitely validate his feelings and not go, "Oh, you're crazy. That's not going to help anything." Are you guys living for free right now? >> Um, well, we have like a BAH, so we pay

rent out of military money.

>> How much is the rent? >> Um, the rent right now is $3,000.

>> And he's okay with that?

>> I mean, no, but we're in a high cost of living place and our BH is exactly $3,000. So, it's basically us just paying what the military gives us for housing. So, >> but basically, we're trading 3,000 in rent for, you know, $1,500 mortgage that you're actually going to own, >> right? >> So, I think that's part of the math. The other part of the math is home prices are a moving target. If you waited, you were like, "It's 2019. We should wait until 2022 to buy a home. Good luck.

That house is now 50% more." And so the longer you wait, the more expensive this decision is going going to become. Which is why I tell people when you're financially ready, which you are, you're following the Ramsey plan to a tea. Go ahead and get the house and then pay it off aggressively. Throw four grand a month at it if you want.

Knock it out in less than 3 years. >> You guys set the plan, set the goals, and stay. >> I've got a homework assignment. Christian, uh, I'm going to put her on hold.

Christian, guide her on how she can get to YouTube and pull this segment up. And I think they need to watch it together. Watch it together.

we had no skin in the game. We're actually for you guys figuring this out in a very good way cuz I think it is a good move.

[music]

>> [music]

[music] >> The Ramsay Show question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. When you uh when your private student loans are in default, it's easy to feel ashamed or stuck. Yi won't judge you. They'll help you rebuild, refinance, and regain control. Visit yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's yfy.com/ramsey.

not available in all states. Today's question comes from Carly in Washington.

She says, "My husband is 55 and I'm 42.

He's the bread winner of the family and would like to retire in the next 5 to 7 years. Does it still make sense to focus on paying off her house while still investing only the recommended 15%. It seems like your advice is great for younger people, but not people at the end of their careers looking to retire and enjoy life before they die. Please help me understand why investing more now instead of paying off our house is a bad idea.

Well, number one, I don't remember where in our plan it said you should just only enjoy life when you're close to death. I don't remember. That's not baby step eight.

15% in retirement. Then anything beyond that, let's start chunking it at the mortgage. Cuz here's the deal. Paying off your house is a huge part of your ability to be able to retire.

You get rid of that mortgage payment. You get rid of that biggest line item in your budget. Well, now we need less to retire. Would you not agree?

If you've got rid of that $2,000 mortgage payment, you need $24,000 less of net income in order to live. So, I think it's a huge part of your wealth building. And I think if you get aggressive at knocking out that house, you can increase investing to 30 40 50% of your income and make up for a lot of lost time. And she's 42.

So, that's my take on why you shouldn't invest more now. Uh because you go into retirement with a bunch of debt, but you were able to invest. I don't know that that was a winning plan either. >> Yeah. Listen, the plan works. Um you

know, I I it is curious to me the statement, it seems like your advice is great for younger people, but not people at the end of their careers. I that's

>> my guess is they got a late start on investing and so they're going, well, we need to really make up for lost time.

>> Oh, that's what it is. Therefore, why pay pay down this mortgage? >> Yeah. She's just looking for, you know, well, we're just going to go invest invest invest and not pay off the house.

So, >> it sounds like he may not be able to retire in the next 5 years if the math doesn't math. And I don't know that investing a little more is going to get you guys there with that short of a time horizon. >> That's right. It's the long game. The long game. The long game. That's what the the baby steps are about. And and it pays off. Ryan is joining us now in Phoenix, Arizona. Ryan, how can we help?

Hi. Um, I just wanted to know um how me

and my wife can survive keeping her home. Um, our current income uh is

probably about 4,400. Um, I'm in the middle of uh purchasing a business um to

help up that income a bit. Um, I would need to be taking out a loan on uh to

purchase the business.

um we have that would up potentially the potential for it after the expenses uh of the business to up that income to 5,300 a

month. Um and we have a total of 30 or

sorry 344,000 in debt without having that business as the debt.

>> Is that including your mortgage?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Take the mortgage out. What is your consumer debt? about the mortgage?

>> Um 21,000.

>> Okay. What debt is the 21?

>> Uh so 16 will be from credit cards and

5,000 is a car.

>> Okay. And what's this business going to cost? >> Uh business is going to be 40,000.

>> So you're going to go into debt $40,000 to increase your income by 900 bucks.

>> Yes. So, but I'm also going to be keeping my wife home at that point. And that would take care of her. It would up that income and subset her from having >> I don't know how adding more debt to the picture, adding more risk, adding another payment allows her to stay home.

That feels like a some backwards math.

So, I would figure out how if we want to buy this business, do it in cash. I don't think the ROI is there on this business currently.

It sounds like it's overvalued.

So the if after paying all the expenses

which their expenses were about um it would the debt >> that's not counting the payment on the loan that you need to make.

>> No that is including >> so the payment on the loan plus expense of the business. >> I mean I just >> would give me 3,000 a month profit. I I number one I'd never recommend anybody go into debt for any business whether it's your own buying a different business and the cash flow just it's not that impressive overall 900 bucks isn't the difference. So the truth is your wife might need to work until we clean up this other debt.

I don't think the 21,000 in debt is what's stopping you at this point from her working or not working.

We have about 10,000 in savings

um that we are just we've been holding back on like paying off the credit cards because the majority of the credit card debt is on a 0% interest credit card at the moment. We're just making the minimum payments on it. >> You're not selling me with your 0% interest rates, man. >> I know. I know. >> I would knock out the car loan today.

What's the car payment?

>> Uh car payment's 100 a month.

>> Okay. So, you get 100 bucks a month back in your life by knocking out the car.

You can throw another four that credit card debt. You'll knock out a card out of that. What's left? Is that a bunch of cards or one?

>> Uh, it's I have I have like three or

four and they all have like a couple thousand each on them. >> You've done balance transfers to 0%.

>> I've No, I didn't do a balance transfer 0%. I uh the 9,000 was for a a school

like uh purchase for um real uh trying

to learn real estate and so on and so forth on that. Is that your business?

>> No, my business is a pool business in Phoenix next year. >> Okay. And you're buying another pool business? >> No, this is uh I'm purchasing the business for the pool that the pool business is the one that I'm purchasing. >> Got it. What's the what's the uh what are the deal points of the purchase?

>> So, um I'm technically we I did some

research on the pricing of the business.

Um, I'm actually getting from every source that I've looked at, I'm getting a 20% wholesale value of the business.

Currently the the business is currently

um currently worth about uh 60,000 but I'm

being sold to it at 40,000 which is just basically what I'm doing is I'm purchasing all of the customers that are on and I'm also purchasing uh the equipment that was uh >> who's and who's the current owner?

>> Uh it's my brother-in-law.

I mean, I I I gotta say, I've never had anybody ask me advice on buying a business that's worth $60,000, but I don't think that's a great idea.

You you're you're calling about debt and paycheck to paycheck living, and I'm sitting here the whole time going, "How are we going to make this guy some more money?" And you're getting wrapped up in buying a business from your brother-in-law that's grossing $60,000.

That's not a lot.

And I'm not trying to pop your bubble, but is this a wise decision?

>> My main goal is to grow the business and be able to make this my full-time job because there it is a very hot market here in Phoenix being it's so hot in so many pools. Um, and I've been doing my

I've been my wife. >> Drum up new business, find new customers, and make it a sweat equity deal instead instead of you going into debt where you give him a portion of the profits until he's paid out.

Um the the big problem is he uh he's

racked up a lot of credit card debt himself. >> Yeah. See, that doesn't mean you should help him out. >> This is a fire sale. >> Yeah, I know. >> Well, if you know >> he move he moved out of state completely

and that's why he was he was going to sell it to either someone else or he was going to sell it to me. So, it was either one or the two and I he was going to give me a discount and he wasn't. And >> can I tell you something else? I don't know who else he's going to sell that to.

I think I'd renegotiate and no cash.

>> I would say you're going to give it to me for free and I'll give you 50% of the profits for a year and then we're done.

>> That's fair. I like those deal points.

He's desperate.

>> Yeah. I mean, if it's if you make 60 grand of of revenue and net profits are, you know, 40 grand, he gets 20 grand out of the deal for doing nothing.

>> I wouldn't go into it with the terms. I am not in favor of you doing it under the current terms. I think that's a bad deal and you're going to regret that and you might resent your brother-in-law.

That's my concern. And you got to make more money. I got into that whole deal just trying to dig around to go, man, you got to make money.

>> So, you know, George, we talk about

cutting, cutting, cutting. But, man, when you're paycheck to paycheck, yes, you cut, but you better start bringing in more money. >> Yeah. Adding to the debt doesn't help getting out out of that paycheck to paycheck cycle.

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Oh, George, do you like the Christmas deals? >> I like a deal and I like Christmas, so [music] I'm I I love I love a good Christmas deal. Um, and but I don't know anybody that loves a deal more than you.

I don't care if it's an Easter deal, >> a Halloween deal. >> Well, I just I don't like paying full price for anything. That's the truth of it. >> Well, you This is a I could call this a George Camel sale. That would have been a better name. I'm going to be honest. Um, this is our unbelievable Christmas deals that we bring out every year.

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Ramseysolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube listening podcast in the old show notes,

they just have links. Anthony is joining us now in Seattle, Washington. Anthony, how can we help today?

>> Hello. Hello, Ken.

>> Hi. >> And George, hope you guys are doing well. >> We are. >> My name is Anthony Pink. I'm over here in Seattle loving life.

>> Great. >> Uh, found Dave Ramsey, 2013 FPU graduate. >> I joked to myself, I thought Chef Ramsey was good with finances and then I found out it was a different person.

>> Disappointing. Disappointing.

>> No, it was it was positive. Um, we've we've been following the baby steps, my wife and I, and I had a general question about tithing on 401k um, interest and

traditional investment. Do you guys do that? Is that suggested by Ramsey?

What's the lowown on that?

>> Well, we're never legalistic about this, but there's a good methodology to think about it to go, okay, the tithe traditionally is on the increase. So, your profits, what you actually take home. So, if my investment grows, but I

never saw the money cuz it's just still sitting in an investment account, I'm not going to tithe on that. But if I sell $10,000 worth of investments and I took that home, that's on my tax return, then sure, you can tithe on that as as this is income we brought above and be above and beyond. So, how is that what you're talking about here with investment growth?

>> Yeah, that's correct.

>> Yep. So, this all the money analogy I think that hits it's enough. Well, the technical term is a realized gain. So, an unrealized gain is, hey, it made money in the investment account, but I haven't actually sold it. The money never went through my fingers. So, if the money goes through your bank account, you can count it as income, and you are free to give on that.

>> I like it. >> Is that simple enough?

>> Simple enough. >> All right. Great question. Thanks for the call. >> I don't know if there was more there, but that's my that's one man's take.

>> Yeah. >> From a math and theological standpoint, I hope it wasn't heresy.

>> But here's the thing. If you want to give more, you're not going to, you know, no one's feelings are going to be hurt. If you want to tithe more, be more generous. But from a biblical standpoint, when I look at the tithe, I go, this is all about the realized gains, the things that you took home.

That's right. >> So, well, if I didn't see the money, >> yeah, >> I'm not going to tithe on it. >> I agree. And I think that again, without going too deep on this, you there was no heresy there. But I would say again, it's tithing, if you dive into it biblically, is about the first fruits, right? And so something that you receive to your point if it's actual income however you get it again that's for your interpretation uh you know that's between you and God.

Scripture is clear on tithing and 10% of first fruits. So um that's that's kind

of why we're not super legalistic on it but we lay out the theology on that and you do what you want with that.

Stephanie is up in Los Angeles, California. Stephanie, how can we help?

Stephanie.

Wow. And >> she waited all this time just to not make it on air. >> We'll try to get her back. Nate is up in New York. Nate, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, how's it going, guys?

>> Good. How are you, sir?

>> I'm doing good. Um, so I'm 19 and uh I'm

starting my first year of college um in January.

Um, and my first year is paid for. I

have a benefactor um who is who is going to take care of all the all the stuff for that except for uh housing and food.

Um and I'm just trying to figure out the best way to save and to budget and to um

have enough for my second year of college. >> Love it. How much is that going to cost?

>> So it's uh it's projected to be about 11,000 a year.

>> Okay. And are there any scholarships or grants or anything available that can lower that amount or is that included?

>> Um, that's not not that I can uh get a hold of. Um, and like I said, I'd like

to like stay out of any um any, you

know, government grants or or government loans or anything like that. >> Well, sure. Do do not take out debt.

That's not what we're talking about here. But if you can get free money, uh, I would do that. And if not, now we got to figure out how to save up $11,000 by whenever the payment is due. So is that December of 2026, >> January of 27? >> Yes. Yeah. Okay. December of 26.

>> So we'll call it a year. So basic math says, let's save up a,000 bucks a month to get there. Can you do that right now working part-time?

>> Um I should be able to. Um I'll be and I

al so right now I'm starting a job. Um,

I'm starting a job at noon tomorrow.

That'll be paying $16 an hour. And then,

um, when I move out there, I have a job for $1,550 an hour.

>> Nice. Um, >> how many hours? >> And that'll be 20 hours. Uh, like

starting out, I'm going to try and get a little bit more. Um, and then, but they have promised me a full-time job with a a pay raise during the summer.

>> Wow. So, you can make up for lost time there. That's exactly what I would do >> because even if you just stuck to the part-time job, you would likely have the perfect amount to cash flow the following year. But if you really ratchet it up in the summer, you'll have the 11 grand plus some. And I would just park it in a high yield savings account all year long and pretend it does not exist. >> Yeah. Okay.

>> This is a great plan, man. I'm proud of you. And you can continue that for the following, you know, the last two years.

>> I should be able to. Um and and I got I

got a pretty good situation. I'm living um living for 550 a month. Um uh that's

that'll be rent and then um you know

food I can live for 50 or $100 a week.

>> I love it. Live like a broke college kid because you are. That's the way to do it, man. I'm proud of you.

>> Keep that up. >> Yeah, I love that. Great discipline there. You know, live like a broke college kid. You know, there's something to that and and and I love that you said this because this is real. So, got to set this up. Got to be careful. Of course, I don't read the comments, so I guess I don't need to be careful. Yeah, you read the comments. >> They will roast you. No, you'll tell me.

They love you, Ken. >> Um, there are a lot of young people naturally so coming out of college and

it's tough to get a job that your degree

said you were going to be able to get. That's real. uh cost of living is very

high. Tough to buy a house in those first couple three years that those days are seemingly gone for a lot of people.

And and yet we forget that when you come

out of college, even though you're out, it's not a bad idea to live like a broke college kid for a little while just to get some stability. I guess my point is is I'm saying I want you to have as much as you can get, but at the same time a little bit of patience, a little bit a little bit of I'm going to live like my grandparents used to live, which is on way less than I actually make. And I

think that that attitude is not very prevalent right now. Am I right or am I wrong? 100% right. The problem is, you know, social media and expectations and friends make you want to live a lifestyle you just can't afford yet.

and you go, I have been in school for 22 years. I want to finally live. I deserve the nice car. I want to live in a nice place.

And all of that leads to being broke.

>> And that's the rub. The people who do that, like our friend here, he's going to be just fine. >> It's going to be great. >> It's the ones who go, I'll take as much monopoly money from Sally May as possible. Oh, and by the way, I want to rent the fanciest apartment in town and I want to have a fancy car. And you go, dude, you can't afford this life. Now, it's going to delay your other dreams. So, don't complain when you can't buy a house cuz you're in crippling debt.

That's not going to help. >> So, that's the key. Live like a broke college kid. Live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. >> Speaking of which, real quick on hot seat. Your favorite broke college kid meal. >> Oh gosh. I mean, ramen is hard to beat.

If you have access to hot water, you've got access to a great meal. Add some Sriracha in there. >> I'm gonna go with you. And I'm much older than you. Back in my day, you could buy 10 ramen noodle packs for for for $10.

>> 10 bucks? So, a dollar a pack? I thought it was cheaper. That was like 10 cents a pack. [music]

Our

[music]

[music]

scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 29:4.

Those who are confused [music] will gain understanding and those who grumble will accept instruction. Our quote of the day from Booker T. Washington. Success always leaves footprints.

That's a nice short like bomb of a quote. Like phenomenal. Just boom.

There. I like the brevity. >> Go do your homework. Follow the footsteps. Stephanie's up uh in Los Angeles. Stephanie, how can we help?

>> Yeah. Hey guys. Uh I appreciate you taking the call. >> Sure. Um my husband and I own our home

here in uh actually Napa, California,

and we have been uh talking about doing

an addition to our home. Uh we had to

buy it at um a kind of a rundown um or a

rundown look of it so that we could afford a place here. And so it needed a

lot of attention. And now we're at a point that we're looking to um add a little bit of square footage to a kitchen and living room. And at the moment we're uh we've been talking about doing a second on our home in order to have the cash flow. Um we do have uh

some money set aside um in a savings

account. I just uh am hesitant to want

to use the money in a savings account versus um the second >> versus putting your home on the block at risk as collateral with a second mortgage and adding a payment.

>> Yes, >> that sounds more exciting to you than liquidating the savings that you had earmarked for this specific thing.

>> Yeah. And and maybe that's me being a little nervous and intimidated on letting uh cash out of uh What that

does, it gives you the reality of what you're actually about to do. That's a good thing. That's your body saying, "Hey, a home addition is expensive. You sure you want to do this?" And when you take out a second mortgage, it's like, "Woo, free money." When really, you're just borrowing against your home, moving backwards, adding stress and payments to your life and risk on top of that. So, I

would never recommend anyone taking out a second mortgage to do an addition. I would tell you to just cash flow it. So, you have the money to do the whole thing right now in cash.

>> Uh, yes. So, my husband and I both work for the fire department. Uh, we do all right. We roughly make about $300,000 a

year. Um, we um we in the last two and a

half years we've done uh six rounds of IVF. So, that was very expensive for us.

>> Yeah. And you were able to cash flow that? >> We were. And that's the almost the struggle part to it is that, you know, it's in the last two and a half years, we've uh spent about $200,000 on IBS.

And so we um you know we know the expense and we know how much it it didn't set us in completely back.

However um it definitely was a lot out of pocket. And then so we um are looking

to obviously expand our family uh because of the IVF that we've gone through and hence the reason why we needed or wanted to um expand the house.

And so >> so what's the current status with the IVF process? Where are you guys at?

>> Yeah. So, uh the last round we uh was the most embryos that we've actually received and awesome. Um we have we have four embryos at the moment. Our son our

son was an IVF baby on our first round and it was a success. We've now now done

uh five additional and uh up until just

the last two we hadn't gotten anything.

We hadn't even gotten tested quality embryos. >> Okay. So, uh, we were struggling with that for a little bit there. And then, um, this last year, um, in 2025, we we

paid $50,000 upfront, uh, to do two rounds of IVF

backto back. And in that two rounds of IVF, we actually have received four quality embryos. >> Okay. Well, at least you guys have the ability to save up and you're putting your money where it matters. So, I'm really proud of you guys and I'm hoping for the best there. What is the addition going to cost?

>> Um, so in in uh my heart, I want it to

cost $100,000. Um, I have um about I I

think maybe $120,000 is, you know, my

margin of error. Um, and uh my husband

and I have about $250,000 in savings at

the moment. >> Oh, amazing. just cash flow it and get it done. It's been loom. It's it's living rent free in your head at this point. >> Your peace of mind is worth something. I would spend it >> and not look back and have no regrets and you'll have a beautiful house. You guys are doing it the right way. There is no need to add risk and stress to your life by taking out a second mortgage. >> Okay. All right. >> And hey, the last thing you need in this process is any stress, right?

>> Yeah. Exactly. >> I mean, you know that you're a pro at this. So, you know, uh that's just one more reason I I would be uh the peace of

mind, the joy in your heart, that all goes into this deal, you know, that.

>> Yeah. >> So, >> yeah, absolutely. Um okay. Well, I I think it's um maybe that simple. I maybe because I have you guys um one maybe last question um with the money that I

have in the savings account that we have in the savings account um minus now maybe the addition. So, uh, let's just say we have roughly about a hundred to $150,000 left in a savings account. What

is your guys's, um, best advice for

investing it? >> Well, does that include your emergency fund? >> Um, as of as of right now in in hand on

on that we own, um, we have $250,000 in

the bank. Okay. we did use it to uh do

the house addition, you know, minus the 100, 120, maybe 150, god forbid.

>> So, I would separate that out and go, okay, we're going to keep 40 or 50 as our emergency fund, and the rest we could invest. Let's say that's $50,000.

You could use that to frontload some college accounts if the kids are in the picture. You could use that to uh fully fund some backdoor Roth IAS for the year

for some taxfree growth on that. um you could >> invest outside of retirement as sort of a bridge account maybe for future spending for the kids, you know, to just leave money growing for you. And so there's a lot of things you could do and then just life along the way. You can enjoy some of it.

>> Sounds like you guys have been through a lot. Maybe you take a vacation, >> maybe you give some and uh maybe you cover IVF for another family who's going through it. There's so much you can do with that, but the it comes into three categories of you can give it, save it, and spend it. I would encourage you to do all three.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Thanks for the call. We're rooting for you.

>> Yeah.

to this one, John? >> We can try. I think we're already here.

>> Let's go. >> Let's go, Rachel. Get right to the >> Rachel in Tulsa. We got a couple minutes. What's your question?

>> Hi. Um I am married. I'm currently

disabled. I have some medical issues going on. I'm trying to figure out with my medical bills. Um, they won't let me

make a smaller monthly payment. I'm trying to figure out if I should put all money that I was put putting towards my student loans towards my medical bills or if it's okay to let them go to collections.

>> Are you on a payment plan currently or is it a minimum payment you need to make? >> No, the payment plan they they say the lowest payment plan I can get on is about $500 a month.

>> How much is the medical debt do that?

The medical debt is about $7,000 and it's a couple different accounts and so

the $500 a month is a couple different

payment plans. >> Wow. Have you looked into financial assistance programs through the hospital, charity care, sliding scale, >> all that? >> I have and my husband um makes too much

money. So, >> okay. So, how quickly could you knock it out? Because it sounds like you guys could make the $500 payment. Let's say that is the minimum and then you just knock out your other debts a little slower.

>> The thing is we can't do 500 a month

even that. How much does he make? Still have >> he makes like 83,000 a year which is

great. But I still have about like $700

a month in medical expenses besides bills. >> Would they take a cash lump sum if you offered them five grand instead of seven?

Um they said if we offered them 4,000 my

biggest bill they would take a th000 off but the only way we could get that lump sum is um through parents and I didn't want to um borrow money for my parents.

>> You know I agree but I think the question is can we continue the debt snowball? Maybe we make p min minimum payments on the debts and try to save up that four grand to try to get that discount. I would try to do everything you can. I would look at the medical billing and coding and have them re-re it.

I just did this yesterday with chat GBT and it gave me a script for what I need to say on the phone to lower the bill. >> Love that. >> So, I would upload your bill and seriously use that to try to lower it, then negotiate it. Get real resourceful and I think you can [music] knock this out without it going to collections and damaging your credit.

We believe in you, Rachel. You've got it.

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## 95. It’s Not Too Late to Get Control of Your Money | September 30, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird.

We're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, and host of Front Row Seat, one of the biggest hits on Ramsey Network right now. He's my co-host. Open Phones at8255225.

Brooke is in Florida. Hey, Brooke. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I need to know today um how to ask my

parents for money. They I work for their business. I manage their business. And there's times sometimes when I don't get a paycheck from them. Um, it's I I love

my parents and I love the work that I do, but I just don't know how much

longer I can keep my head above water.

>> How old are you?

>> 30. >> You run the business?

>> I do. Yes. >> How many employees?

>> Uh, about 15.

>> Okay. Are you running payroll for the 15 people?

No, they they I run all the time stamps

and then they do it on their automated payroll.

>> Okay. So, you're not running the business.

>> You're just running some You're running parts of the business.

>> I I you could say that. Yes. I mean, I run daytoday all the like accounts and billings and the management of all the employees stuff. They're just >> So, you hire and fire these people?

>> I do. >> Do any of them miss their paychecks?

No.

>> What would happen if they did? They would quit. >> They would quit. >> Yeah. So, why would you not get a paycheck?

>> Um, just just sometimes like sometimes the business does not do well. Um, >> you're not profitable. >> And >> Yes. Yeah. And we we're from a small town. We live in a small town and you know, we try not to raise our prices too much, but you know, when it comes down to it, we do. >> You're not profitable. >> Then the the town keeps yelling at us.

Why are you not profitable?

>> Why is it not? I don't because we don't raise our prices. >> I thought you were running the business.

>> I am, but I I mean I raise them

>> I raise them a little bit, but not to anything too crazy. >> Well, honey, if you're not running a profitable business, nobody gets a paycheck.

>> Absolutely.

Okay. >> So, this isn't a mom and dad problem.

This is a you're running a business sort of and the decisions that are being made to operate the business are not causing it to be profitable.

Is that right?

>> Yes. >> And so they don't have the money to pay you and so they skip out on you rather

than the other employees.

>> Correct. >> Okay. And so the the fix for this is not a relational problem with your mom and dad. The fix for this is business acumen and it's straightening up your dad gum act over there and decided if we're going to keep this thing open or not cuz a business that doesn't make money is called a hobby >> recorded.

>> Hello. >> This call is no long >> I have no idea what that was but I'm not participating in it anymore. Um something about being recorded. Yeah, it's definitely being recorded.

It's a podcast. Okay. So it'll be on YouTube later too if you want to watch it. But no, you don't have a mom and dad problem, honey.

You got a Brooke problem. And so Brooke needs to sit down with mom and dad and go, "We're running this business poorly.

because your mom and dad have an integrity issue then. But that's not what's going on. What's going on is is they ask you to run the business, you're running it poorly.

>> Yeah. And I also think there's we don't have the backstory here, so this is inferring a lot, but this is probably not a very strong business and just laying it out as simply as well, we're not raising prices. That's not the only reason. I think she needs another job.

Uh because I think her finances are a mess. She's underneath underneath it, she said. So this is a situation where you may or may not be able to fix this.

Um, and if you can't, I would do what Dave says, but if we can't fix it with a very clear strategy, dial in a few knobs here, then it's time to move on.

>> Yeah. >> And I see this a lot with family business. People, they get stuck in this because they feel like it's mom and dad's business. I'm the kid. I got to help. And you refuse to see what you

might otherwise see if you didn't work for mom and dad. Well, the number one I mean a business that didn't profitable, the number one line item in a typical business of of any size, but certainly a small business with 15 employees, the largest item in their pay in their uh in

their budget is payroll.

>> That's correct. >> They have 15 people getting paid and one not. So, I can fix that. We'll have 13 people and one gets paid.

>> I mean, that's, you know, I don't lay people off around here uh willy-nilly. I do all kinds of things. We've never had a layoff in Ramsey at 35 years. But if we're not making a profit, we're going to make a profit.

We're going to stay open. And if I if I have to cut payroll to stay open, I will. Um before I before I sit around and make no money and uh because you're not going to stay open eventually if you don't make a profit. This is the whole thing.

It's how it works. It's a math thing. So it's not an altruistic thing. It's not socialism doesn't fix it.

Your theory about capitalism from your communist college professor won't fix it. None of this will fix it. What has the only thing fixes?

>> Yep. >> And so and it has to have a bottom line profit. And when you've got that then all your theories we can have a discussion about. But no. Yeah. It's not a mom and dad problem, Brooke. It it's you and your mom and dad need to sit down and figure out how what have we got to do? Cut expenses and increase revenues. And that's where profit comes from. I want to create some margin in here to where I never miss a paycheck again because I can't miss any more paychecks.

I'm not I'm not okay with missing paychecks. And if we have to if we have for me to miss paychecks, it's it's saying to me that I need to go do something else. >> Y >> and so I I've missed my last paycheck.

We're going to sit down. We're going to change some stuff here until this happens. But you the way you presented it made it sound like it's kind of random. It's not random at all. They look down, the bank account's empty, they can't pay you. And that'd be true for the rest of them, by the way. If they look down, the bank account's really empty. Well, how they how they going to make payroll? They can't. So, that's the next thing that's coming.

>> They're they're going to miss paychecks to other people. Yeah. >> And so, we've got to get this thing turned around and headed in the right direction or we need to close it. One of the two or somebody that wants to work for free to run it because I'm not that guy. >> Yeah. That I hadn't ever asked anybody to work for free at Ramsey ever. >> Yeah. Because here's where this goes.

Right now, she's kind of chuckling.

Seems like she's in good spirits. But eventually, that becomes nasty resentment for mom and dad. And to your point, they're not being bad parents here. They're just trying to figure out how to pay everybody else. She's the last one. >> Well, they've done a crummy job of communicating and helping to fix it.

>> No question. >> If my kid is on my payroll.

>> Yeah. >> And I own the business and I can't pay my kid. >> That's the first thing I'm going to have a problem with, right? I mean, we're going to be talking about this and all of a sudden I'm going to be down in the weeds with the with the boots on again.

Here we go. >> Yeah. >> So, something's going to happen here.

And so, I I it feels like mom and dad

kind of drifted off and semi-retired.

>> I think you're right. >> And they're half butt running this thing. and Brooke doesn't know what she's doing and she's kind of half butt running it. And so there's a lot of half butts in this thing. And that that's what that's what there's nobody got control of this around the throat. Grab it around the throat to get it to 15

people so they can figure it out.

>> You got to step on it >> there because let me tell you, business is tough. That's why they fail all the time. It's hard. It's a series of hard

decisions. And you get up tomorrow and you know what it is then? another series of hard decisions. It's hard. It's

tough. Running your own business is, you know, at least you work for yourself. That's the worst boss you'll ever have in your life. Guy's a freaking slave driver. [Music]

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Natalie is in Tacoma, Washington. Hi Natalie. How are you?

>> I'm good. I can't believe I'm talking to you guys. This is a total honor.

>> Well, we're honored to speak to you. How can we help? Um, so this is a more of a relationship and more of a family question. So my basic question is how do I get my brother to stop taking advantage of my parents?

Um, so context and background is that he

is 35 years old. And essentially what

his current kind of like plan or like

lifestyle is, he just like saves up a bunch of money um while he's living at home with them for free and then he'll like go on a trip internationally. And then once he runs out of money, he comes back and he doesn't have anywhere to go.

So he just moves back in with my parents again. But meanwhile, he takes advantage of them and like uses their materials for his business. He uses their stuff and he's also disrespectful all at the

same time. I've talked to my parents about this. I mostly talk to my parents about this. So, I mostly get their side of the story, but basically I

>> Why have they not stopped this then?

>> That's what I've been trying to get them to. >> I'm asking you I'm asking you why.

What's wrong with your parents?

They will not. They love their son too much. They won't love. That's not love.

>> Yeah, that's true.

>> This is giving a drunk a drink. That's enabling. It's not love.

>> 100%. I'm And so that's what I'm wanting

help with is I've talked to them about it and I've been very straightforward and blunt with them and I've told them, you know, like if you are not willing to set those boundaries, then it could cost you the relationship. And so I guess

they're not listening to me. I'm wondering if I can talk to my brother specifically and he can coach me on how to help him. >> No. >> Okay. >> Your brother's a parasite. They don't listen. >> 100%. >> Yeah. >> So, it's >> Well, he doesn't have any problems.

>> I know. >> Your parents are the one that has a problem. Your brother has no problems.

He He Life is good for your brother.

>> I know. Yeah. >> Why would he? But your parents job is to help him have some problems.

Yes, I agree.

So, I kind of sit in this middle world and I'm wondering and I I it's technically out of my control. I'm wondering if I'm wondering if there's anything that I can do to kind of help this problem.

>> Well, let me flip this on you. If I if I met you and I started telling you about something that was really really bothering me, you could tell I was pretty worked up about it and then I said to you, "But Natalie, I I have no control over it. I can't control anything about this. What would you say to me?" >> Um, I mean, I guess technically you're right.

So, >> what would you tell me? You can see I'm all stood up about it, but I have no control over it. What would you say to me as a good friend or a new acquaintance?

I guess I'm not sure.

>> Sure you would. >> It's kind of frozen. Let it go. Let it go. That's it. You would just say, "Hey, you got to move on." >> And you said you're sitting in the middle of this. You're not sitting in the middle of that. >> You're sitting on the side. You're a spectator. >> You've actually put yourself emotionally in the middle. >> You have VIP seats.

>> Yeah. >> To watch this crap happen.

>> Yeah. >> But you're a spectator.

>> Yep. >> Yeah. So that's what that's what I'm hating is I hate watching my parents. It is really painful to watch people you love do stupid things.

>> Yeah.

>> Let me tell you what I would do on this situation. This is like me walking in the living room and my wife and daughter are watching The Bachelor. I just keep on walking.

>> I don't stop. You know, I already know.

>> Don't get sucked in. >> Well, I just know how awful that show is and how it makes me feel and I feel dumber every second that I watch it.

>> My brain cells just die progressively though. But if I sit there and I watch it and I keep griping to Stacy and Josie

about it, it's not helping me or them

cuz they're not going to stop watching.

>> They don't stop. >> So, um, yeah. The only thing I could think of is this. Anytime I'm trying to influence someone, the only thing I can do there there's three possible angles.

Your brother's not is zero chance. Okay?

I would not bother with him at all.

>> What he needs is a good buttkicking, and you're not in a position to do that. Okay. So, he needs he needs his butt kicked into the street and into a job and into grown-up land. And uh that's what you know, he's like >> he's um you know, Peter Pan. He just never grew up, right? So, um failure to

launch. So, now how do you deal with mom and dad? Number one, I would just tell mom and dad a story about one time that I was doing something and say, you know, I did this, I did this, I did this. And you know, when I got out on my own, I felt so much better than when you guys were supporting me.

>> I felt better about myself. And so, I don't think I don't think my brother feels good about himself because I think y'all are harming him.

>> Uh, and so you you could say something, I don't think it's going to do any good, though, because I think your parents are spineless.

>> Yeah. Enablers are the nicest spineless

people you will ever meet.

>> When I have been an enabler, it's because I was too freaking chicken to deal with the deal. Instead, I just

throw money at it.

>> And that's enabling. And I've done that myself. And it's just I'm always ashamed of myself when I do it because you don't help the people involved. You actually hurt them. And that's what your parents are bringing great harm to your brother because they've malformed his character in the process and it's their fault. All

he did was just take the path of least resistance. That's all he did.

>> So the second thing I would do is ask yourself who would they listen to?

>> True.

brother that they trust, uncle that they trust, pastor that they trust, >> his old army >> sergeant that he trusts. I don't know who who who would that and and talk to that person and say, would you go talk to them cuz I can't get through to them.

>> Mhm. >> And then the third thing I'm going to do is I'm just going to pray, God, mess them up. Mess this up, Lord. Cause a

chaos over there.

Let the basement where brother lives flood, Lord.

Yes. >> Break his car, Lord. You know.

>> Yeah. Lord, Lord, bring some problems to this situation, please, God. And just pray pray hell down on them. And it's just I'm serious cuz that's that's what's going to something is going to bust here. And I around Ramsey even when we're working on projects, we always say, "Break it before it's broken." And I'm just going to ask God, "Break this before it gets broken cuz it's going to get broken. It's going to go sideways.

It's going to be ugly when it does. And it'd be better off sooner than later.

>> Yeah. I My guess is your parents are afraid of him. You mentioned that he's disrespect. Yeah. I just >> physically >> he hasn't been physical with them, but he has broken stuff in the household before. >> I'll call the police on him. >> Yeah. They're But they're more afraid not of harm. I think they're afraid that he's going to abandon them. I When you see parents that are enabling, I've seen this so many times. there is a fear that

the child is going to abandon them,

reject them. And so you're saying yes.

So you've seen this. So I'm only pointing this out because u to Dave's point, it's going to take a really special person with real real authentic

leverage in their life to get them to see that this is what's going on, >> that they're act, you know, >> they're terrified of The best I've ever done with an enabler is to convince the enabler that they're actually doing harm because they think they're doing good. >> That's right. >> Well, they think they're avoiding something bad when what they're doing is creating. >> I can't put them out. He'll be homeless.

Right. >> Praise God. >> Right. Yeah. It's It reminds me of the prodal. >> Don't let them eat. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's like the Bible and stuff.

>> Yeah. Let them go and then when they come back, have a nice robe and create a feast. But at some point, the fear of

what their life is going to turn out uh

or turn into has got to be bigger than the fear of them being mad at you. And that's a really, by the way, I don't say that flippantly. No, >> that's a tough choice. >> You get to ask that if you're raising teenagers, you have to ask that question every morning. That's right. >> You know, I have to explain to them, listen, my job here is not to be not to make you happy. My job here is not to be

your friend. My job here is not to be the cool dad because I didn't sign up for that one either. My job is to raise you into a good adult >> so you can leave. That's my job. And

then when you leave, you can come back when you bring grandbabies. This is how the work world works. Okay? And so um but you cannot live in my basement and make grandbabies. It doesn't work that way. So you need to leave otherwise we don't get grandbabies. This is so and I have to train you in how to do that. So you have to brush your teeth so you have some. You have to take your tests and get grades so that you can get a job and

make money so you can bring back grandbabies. This Yeah, this is the there's a goal here. It's a >> circle of life, >> desired future, right?

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is a game changer. Boys and girls, watch the pre the premiere on our YouTube channel and see the app in action. By the way, that premiere is pretty incredible. Uh here how folks are finding thousands of dollars in margin in just 15 minutes using Every Dollar's new features. So imagine how much you could find to put towards your money goals.

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The allnew Every Dollar. Check it out, boys and girls. And check it out on YouTube. All right. Kayla is in Mississippi. Hi, Kayla. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm great. >> Good. How can I help?

>> Okay. Well, it's kind of a dispute that

my husband and I have had for a really long time. >> And he thinks that our house and our

land should be included in our net worth. But I don't because I will never

ever ever sell my house or my land. I mean, no matter what happened, I would not do it. And so, he thinks it should be included in that. And so he for that

reason he has a high net worth for us. I mean really high. And I don't think it's so high because I would never sell it.

>> Okay. It doesn't it Kayla, I'm sorry you're wrong. Um >> Oh no. >> Yeah. So the I'm sorry you lose the argument. But here's why. Okay. Net worth is not about whether you sell it or not. Net worth is simply what something is worth. The definition of net worth is an accounting function.

It's a math thing, not a feeling. Okay?

And so, and it's not a wish or an intent. It's not what you plan to do with it. None of that really matters. They don't ask that question in accounting. All they want to know is what you own minus what you owe.

Assets minus liabilities equals net worth. Period.

That's your net worth. Now, you now you can say, what's my liquidity? Which is your argument. Your your liquidity is the money that you would cash in or use

if something came up. And in your case, you would get rid of your husband before you got rid of the land. You made that clear.

>> No, not quite that extreme. Not that >> almost. Almost. I mean, we're not sure at this moment, especially since you lost the argument now, but yeah, that's it. But >> not bad. >> What's so special about this land?

That's It must be family land. >> Well, it's the thing. He wants to retire. He's like, "We have this huge net worth and I want to retire." And I'm like, "We have >> Okay, now that that net worth does not necessarily mean you can retire." That's true. Okay. Because what what we need to retire is we need net worth that is creating an income.

>> So if you're farming the land, then you would be creating an income with it. But it's just sitting there growing going up in value. You can't eat that. You're you're right. >> Right. >> You're right about that. That part of the argument, you win. Okay. So your net worth, if your net worth is too uh offc

center on one thing, like dirt in your case, then you can't eat at retirement.

That won't work. So, what is the rest of

your net worth, not counting the land?

>> It's in 401ks and Roth IAS and it's 2.7

million or thereabouts. >> Well, darling, he can retire.

>> I don't I don't see how because he makes like 200,000 a year. >> Well, what do you think 2.7 million will create?

>> Well, >> 2.7 million at 10% 270,000.

That just that's where I have the disconnect. We've only ever saved saved save saved and we've never taken anything out. And so I'm like really >> I need to we need to check his back for the lash marks. >> I'm telling you you're But you're sweet.

I think I think he's smile. You're smiling the whole time. This >> smiling the whole time you kick him out and every morning to go to work. Get your butt up. Go to work. >> How much is the land worth? >> That's hilarious. >> It's what? >> I'm sorry. What? >> What's the land worth?

>> Oh, the house and the land together will probably be around 800,000. Oh, well that's not even the larger part of your net worth then, huh? Interesting.

>> No. >> So, how old is your husband?

>> Forever. No matter what ever happens, I'm never leaving here. I >> I We got that. Okay. We got that early.

>> Don't question. So did he, by the way.

But the So the question is this. When How old is he?

>> 62. >> 62.

>> 62. That's right. >> Okay. So sit down with your financial advisor and ask them if >> it's him. It's him.

>> Financial adviser. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Well, maybe you need to get one that'll help you guys both look at this and say because if I were your financial adviser, I could show you how you could invest that money in in some decent growth stock mutual funds, which I got a feeling he's already done. And and it would create 10 to 12% rate of return.

And so you would make 200 $200,000 without even touching the nest egg. H

>> without even touching the 2.7. See, if 2.7 makes 10, that's 270 without

touching the 2.7 every year, right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. See, that's without touching the nest egg. And um and he's he's 62. And

um you know, if anything really goes wrong, you could sell the farm. No, I'm kidding.

>> I couldn't resist. Yeah. Yeah. It's too

easy. It's underhand pitch. It's teball.

Never, ever, ever, >> ever, ever, ever. >> No matter what happens, nuclear apocalypse. Guarantee you Kayla's on the >> You guys have done a wonderful job together cuz you're fun and you focused and you don't spend money, you save money, and he's done a wonderful job, if he's been the one managing this, growing it at 62 to have 2.7 plus an 800,000.

So, your net worth 3.5. Way to go, Mississippi. I love it. I'm proud of you. You did great. Now, if he wants to

retire, he can afford to retire.

>> I don't think for sure. >> I don't think he had much choice. I think uh Caleb made that poor guy save and invest, which is good. Which is good. Good for him. But >> well, that way they don't have to sell the land.

>> I thought it was going to be some like massive track of land worth millions of dollars. >> I thought they had 2.7. The land's worth 20 million or something. Yeah. I thought 800 grand. It's not even the biggest part. Might be a price you would consider.

But she does make I'll tell you the conversation is a good point for everybody listening though. Okay.

>> When you you have to have enough of your net worth tied up in income producing

assets to be able to live off of that

income. In their case it's a very simple formula. 2.7 10% 270. Right? But let's

say you had 2.7 and it was in real estate uh that was generating rents. Are the net rents net of all the expenses enough to live on? And are you okay with

that? And those of you that are small business people, you need to have assets outside of and in addition to your small business when you retire. Uh, no, that's my retire. No, that's not your retirement. That retirement has to be done some then you're going to put your kids in debt when they try to take it over from you because they got to buy the old man out cuz the old man hadn't saved any stinking money. So, you need some stinking money. you need to have invested and create income prodducing

assets that you can live off of at

retirement. So, one of the guys I was ran through my head. One of the guys we found was worth $12 million in the uh when we did the millionaire study. Yeah.

>> For the millionaire next or not millionaire next door. That's Tom Stanley's book. My book Baby Steps Millionaire, right? And so, um that study, one of the guys, he was one of he was an unusual millionaire and that's why I remember him. He bought a track of

farmland. He was a farmer um in Kansas

for cash. And then the next year he bought another track. And then the next year he bought another track. And then the next year he bought another track.

He had $12 million in dirt.

>> O dirt.

>> And if he's not farming it, it doesn't create an income. It goes up in value probably because it's apparently good dirt, right? >> But uh and he's been doing that. But if you've got it all tied up in dirt, >> Yeah. You know, we had a a family one time we were coaching in Entree Leadership. They were third generation and they started with like 500,000 acres

in um uh New Mexico and it was part of a

land grant thing three generations ago.

And every generation they had to sell off blocks of it to pay the estate taxes. >> And now we're down to the third or the fourth generation and they're all trying to live off of this land only it doesn't create an income. But they had this massive net worth to Kayla's point. She

makes a good point, but no income. And they sat and argued is what they did. So um about what to do next because they basically the thing between someone trying to eat and the federal government taking estate taxes every generation.

The uh the half a million acres had been disbanded and was gradually eroding.

>> So sad >> for those things because nobody ever bothered to create an income. You got to create an income and you got to do that.

So, she makes a great point on that. And she was a lot of fun. That's great.

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We appreciate you very much. Andrew is in Washington. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> Hey, what's going on, guys?

>> Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help?

>> So, um I just got married in August. Um and my wife and I are looking at um buying our first home. Um and right now, we're putting, you know, doing what you guys say, putting 15% of our income into retirement. And because a home is an

appreciating asset, would it be okay with the exception of the 401k because

we get match? Would it be okay to pause

contributions to retirement and to put that towards a down payment on a house?

>> Yes, but not because it's an appreciating asset. Um the uh uh I

assume you're out of debt everything at this point.

We have my wife has about 10k in student loan debt which we're planning to pay off um hopefully by the end of the year.

>> Okay. And do you have an emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses?

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Well, you only got part of the Ramsey message then.

So, let me kind of fill in the gaps. Okay. Baby step one is you save $1,000. Anything above $1,000 that you have, you apply to consumer debt.

And you lean on consumer debt. anything except a mortgage until you are 100% debt-free. When you are, then baby step three is you build a an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses. Only then do you start investing for retirement.

So you would stop investing for retirement today.

>> Okay? >> And then your first goal is to rebuild the emergency fund to 3 to 6 months of household expenses. Then if we want to

do a a house down payment, we start saving for a house down payment. And I'll give you the nuances to that. That kind of weaves back to your question now that I cleaned it up. Okay.

>> All right. So at that at that point, let's revisit where we are at that point. You're 100% debtree. You have an emergency fund and we have not yet restarted the 15% baby step four going

into retirement. You with me now?

>> Yes. >> Okay. when you're there and you should be there like by Friday.

I mean, I don't know how quick it's going to take you to build that emergency fund back up, but it might be three Fridays from now, but you're going to get there real fast. Okay. I don't know how much is in your savings, not counting retirement. >> Uh with with retirement, >> not counting retirement.

>> Gotcha. Um probably like 15 grand.

>> Okay, good. Yeah. So, you're debtree with five grand in the bank today. Did I understand that right? >> Okay. And then you build that to three to six months of expenses. What's your household income?

>> Uh about 120 a year.

>> Cool. What do you think your monthly expenses to exist are?

>> Uh probably in the 2 to 2500 range.

>> I think that's probably right. So let's call your emergency fund 10 grand minimum.

>> Okay. >> You could call it 15 if you want to, but for purposes of arguing how So we got to put five grand back into there. Then we've got a $10,000 emergency fund or a little more if you wanted to do that and we're debtree. Once you're there, then you have the question of do I save for a

down payment versus putting money into my 401k. Now people, and that's what we

call baby step 3B because the 15% going

into your 401k is baby step four. Is

this all tracking? >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. Good. Now, so at baby step 3b,

anything in there is permissible. You could do zero into retirement. Even if there's a match, you could ignore your retirement for up to 3 years, build a

huge down payment and buy a house, then start baby step four. That's one end of the spectrum. The other end of the spectrum is sometimes people put 15% away and while they're doing that with no payments, they still save for their down payment. That's the other end of the spectrum. Or you could land in the middle and take your match and then save for your down payment above the match, right? Which is kind of the way you were leaning, the way you phrased the question.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. And that's okay. Any one of those is okay. But just don't do nothing for retirement longer than 3 years.

>> Okay. Longer than three years. Got it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So even if you do 3% in there, let's get that down payment saved up pretty quick. Now, when you're doing the house, it' be great. It's probably very hard to do on your first house. And you guys are in your early 20s, aren't you?

>> Uh, we're 28. >> Oh, mid20s. Okay. Late 20s. Okay. Good.

So, on your first house, it's very difficult to do this. But if you can put down 20%.

You avoid what's called PMI, which is private mortgage insurance.

>> Yes. And that's 75 bucks a month per 100,000 borrowed. So you start talking

about, you know, we're going to do a $400,000 mortgage, you suddenly got uh

$300 a month in PMI only.

And it's nothing more than foreclosure insurance that protects the mortgage company if they foreclose on you. It benefits you in no way. And they don't charge that to you if you put down 20% or more because they're not at risk.

they think they've got enough equity coverage.

>> So, if you can put down that much, it saves you a ton of money. But sometimes people really want to get a house. They want to get a house and they're moving fast. That's okay. We're fine with that, especially on the first house. And then while you're doing that, no more than a 15-year mortgage. No more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a fixed rate 15-year mortgage. And that's the whole shmear right there on your question.

More than you ask for, but you're tracking and you're really thinking about it. You're being intentional. I think you're going to do great, Andrew.

>> You can tell by the way he's asking the questions. >> He's very thoughtful. The only thing I would say to you, and you didn't say anything that would that would make me think you're going to do this, but be careful of the temptation to over buy that first house, you know, because everybody kind of wants that bigger house, a little bit better. You get just got married in August. So, while you're saving, also keep some discipline in mind that this is not our forever house.

Don't get sucked into buying in a place that's too much of a stretch. I cannot tell you how many calls we take on this show where somebody just overbought and they're like, "Now, what do we do?" Because we're three months in and the high has worn off and we are upside down

and we just cannot afford this. So, be very, very careful on what you buy as a new couple. First house.

>> Yeah. Forever house is code for I just bought more than I should have. >> Yeah. >> That's what it's called for. Uh because there is no forever house. I'm 65.

There's no forever house. The only forever house is heaven. Okay, that's it. The one Jesus the mansion Jesus is building, that's my forever house. The rest of them, they ain't got a mortgage and there's no property tax on that. So that's it. So you just you get you buy what you can afford because you're going to move.

You are going to move. The average house sells every 5.5 years in America. I'm

sorry, 6.5 years. The average mortgage pays off every 5 years. >> Except for our friend in Mississippi we talked to earlier. She's not moving. >> She's not moving. >> Everybody else >> Everybody else is moving. But she's she's bringing the average up. She's bringing the a Kayla. Kayla's bringing the >> That good memory, Kayla. That's right.

Everyone else though, >> she's bringing the average up. Yeah. >> Yeah. But yeah, I mean Sharon and I have averaged I think about 14 years >> per house. Per for per forever house.

Yeah. >> So if you want to know how long forever is, it's somewhere around 14 years.

>> I asked you too. I was like, cuz I loved your other house. Like, selfishly speaking, it was the greatest place in the world to hang out in a on a Tennessee evening overlook. It was just I selfishly >> up on a big hill and the sunsets were off the chain.

>> Yeah. >> And I didn't want you to move, but you didn't ask me. >> Yeah. Well, you weren't paying the bills up there.

>> That's right. Well, I said to you, I go, "What? What? What are you doing?" You go, "Ah, we need a new project." >> That's what you said.

>> Little bor. >> I go, "Man, >> you've been there 14 years. It's been forever." >> He had too many great sunsets, apparently. So, that'll tell you.

This actually proves your point.

>> See, >> I actually did. I thought it was my forever house. I never say that cuz I hate that phrase, but >> uh I actually thought we'd own it. And uh but it was just it was a ridiculous property and there was a chance to get a ridiculous price and so sold to the man with the bigger checkbook.

>> You did. >> And so um there we go. If only you were as strong as Kayla, you would have held firm and I'd still be up there enjoying those sunsets. >> That's true.

>> Not to be though. >> You could probably go up there now, but you might get arrested. >> I knock on the door. Hey, would you mind?

>> Hey, no, don't even knock on the door. Just let him come home, find you on the back porch. >> Hey, don't worry, my friend.

>> I used to come by here all the time. I just wanted to see it one more time before I went to jail.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio with Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author and host of The Front Row Seat. as my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ryan is in Nashville. Hey, Ryan. How are you?

>> Good. Dave, how you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, um had a question about um retirement and 401ks. Um I am new into a

Roth IRA. I'll be 50 next year and I can

only contribute so much to that. And on my wife's 401k, we're maxing out what

she can do um a year on that. And then

there's a rollover IRA from previous employment um that we have. So we've got the three things working for us, but I can only contribute, you know, that just that$7,000 a year. And I I would just

like to know what you think other ways for me to try to make my money work for

me um down the road so I can have more retirement. >> Yeah, you can bump it to 8,000 at 50 and you can also do a spousal Roth for your wife as well. Are you doing both of those?

So, we can do that if if she has a 401k plus she has a rollover IRA.

>> Yes. >> And what's that called? I'm sorry. >> Just a Roth IRA. She can just do a Roth.

She can do one, too. >> She can do a Roth. >> Yep. Even if she's not working, she could do one, but she's working in this case. So, make sure. Is her 401k a WTH?

>> Uh, no. I don't believe Well, yes, it is. It is. Okay. >> All right. Cuz the if they match, the portion they match is not Roth. But make sure it's not traditional. Is the roll over Roth? Is a rollover IRA. Has it been converted to Roth?

>> I don't think it's been converted. It's just a rollover. >> Okay. If you convert it, it'll make the taxes on the amount come due. What's the amount in there?

>> The amount on the rollover currently is probably about 75.

>> Okay. So, you would have about 15 or $20,000 in taxes, probably 15. Um, if

you get so if you got an extra 15 to invest in retirement, I would roll that to a Roth and pay that 15 in taxes and call that investing. Here's why. Because from this point forward, it will grow completely tax-free.

>> Okay? >> So, that paying those taxes now is like investing into a into a retirement. So, if you're looking for more money to throw at something, the first thing is you bump them to eight. You do a spousal spousal. make sure her 401k is Roth if

it's not already and then take that roll over and you know talk to your tax person, figure out what your taxes are going to be before you do it. make sure you've got that much in extra cash to pay your tax bill next year when the April rolls around because you're going to have an extra whatever it is 15 grand or so um on that and then roll that 75

because that 75 in seven years will be 150 and in seven more years it'll be 300 and in seven more years it'll be 600 and all of that will be taxfree if it's Roth. It won't be the way it is now.

It's going to grow and all of it be taxable at ordinary income. So, you do want to move that at some point, but if

you're looking for extra ways to put money towards retirement, that's the ways you can do it. Matt's in Tennessee.

Hey, Matt. How are you?

>> I'm doing great, guys. I'm so excited to be on the show. Thanks for taking my call. >> My pleasure. How can we help?

>> Well, my wife and I have been weighing the decision of making her a stay-at-home mom, and I just want to

make sure we're not letting emotion

blind us from making a uh a bad decision

financially. >> Cool. Good for you. How many babies you got? >> Uh we have two. Uh they're both under three. >> Awesome. You got your hands full.

>> Never a quiet moment at your house. Yes.

Okay. So, um >> yeah, that's great. Um I just kept the grandbabies last week that Sharon and I did that are that age and say I know what I'm talking about for just a moment there, but I can hand them back when they're broke. You can't. So, um, this one's got something wrong with it. You don't need to work on this one. Yeah. But the, uh, anyway, the, uh, what does she make?

>> Um, she makes 95 gross.

>> And what do you make?

>> I make, um, I'll be on track to make,

uh, over 150.

>> Okay, cool. Um, if you want to be really, really sure, uh, an easy way to do it would be just live on your check for three months and bank hers.

Yes, sir. We We've been doing that.

>> Oh, you have? Okay. I mean, minus dayare. If you got daycare, you could take daycare out of hers, but because you won't have that, but >> but if you just practice, so you've already pre you've already proven to yourself you can do this.

>> I guess so. But, um, I mean, I guess we're just a little nervous to take that leap of faith. Um, you know, >> it's not a leap of faith. You've proven it.

>> It's a step. True. It's a step. It's not a leap.

Yes, sir. >> How much margin do you A leap is? I have no idea and I've never even looked at the math. That's a leap.

>> This is true. >> Yeah. So, you're done great, man. So, what does she do for a living?

>> Uh, she's a nurse auditor for Humana.

>> Is she a nurse by trade?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. I think Ken and I would both recommend that she do enough of something to keep her alive while she's at home. Yeah, >> we we've both talked about that as well.

We want to keep her um her license up to date. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And you'll be amazed at what she could pick up as just little side things here or there that make a lot of money. >> She's got like the perfect career to do

what you're talking about doing.

>> I couldn't agree more. >> I mean, she could pick up if y'all got in a pinch or something, she could pick up weekends in the in the ER and make almost as much she's making now.

This is true. >> Be very uncomfortable. And I'm not recommending doing that. And but you don't have to because you've already proven we can live on your income. So yeah, just do it, man. Do it. This is what the This is you. This is why you manage money to get to live the life you want to live and you guys want her to be home and she's doing nothing wrong and everything right by doing that.

>> Yeah. My my question is is is as Dave was walking you through this, you just you still seemed unsure. Is that because you're worried about some big giant expense coming out of nowhere from the giant in the sky or you are too tight on

just your income?

>> No, that's a good question. We're we're not too tight on my income. Um what makes me nervous, Ken, is I started this

job in June. Um and it's a phenomenal

job. It it it it provides very well.

It's It's given us a great financial bump. Um I guess it just makes me nervous to um solely rely on on my job

having been being in it for such a short period of time. >> Yeah. What do you do?

>> I'm in medical sales.

>> Oh, dude. >> Yeah. >> You land another one. You know land you can land backwards on your head and make 150 in that in the next job.

>> If these people lose their minds, you can get another job doing this. Once you've done medical sales, you're so qualified, it's unbelievable. You both have selected excellent careers.

>> You'll be making 250 in 3 years, dude.

>> Yes, sir. Uh if everything goes well and I'm and I stay on plan, I should I should track to make over 200.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Well, the good thing comes like a decision like this is you're going to be extra motivated. And I I appreciate you sharing the fear and I I didn't need to know. I wanted you to hear yourself say it. And so what you need to do now is go, okay, if this makes me a little nervous, is there any evidence that it should make me nervous? And in this case, answer is no. And then to Dave's point, uh you can crush it, man. So go crush it. And here's the other thing.

You guys can decide, okay, we're going to stack up a little extra money. Oh, just a little rest easy money. Now, we're not saying you have to do that, but you can to kind of ease yourself into this. You guys get to decide how and when you make this transition >> and everything goes sideways, >> she she walks down there and picks up a nursing job.

>> I mean, if you lost your job, she picks up a nursing job, y'all can eat. It's okay. It's not It's not like it's permanent. You keep those searchs, though.

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[Music]

Dylan is in Idaho. Hi Dylan. How are you

>> doing? Well, how are you Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So my my wife and I are in a little bit of a pickle. We are trying to get financially smart and get out of debt.

We have two vehicles that are financed

and uh we owe more than than they're

worth, I guess, at least on one of them.

The other one we could probably break even with, but we don't quite have like the cash or the capital to then buy um

something cheaper in cash.

>> Okay. On that one, the one that's break even, what's the payment?

Uh 120 a month.

>> Okay. For what? 82 years. What kind of car is this?

>> It's a 2014 Volkswagen Jetta.

>> And what do you owe on it?

>> Uh 66, I think.

>> Okay. I'm sorry. You owe 60 Oh, 6600,

>> right? Yep. 6600. >> Okay. I'm just God almighty. All right.

My math brain was about to explode.

>> 6,000. Sorry. >> Yeah. No, not quite. Thank God. Um, so

$6,600 you owe on the $120 a month. And what do you owe on the other car?

>> We owe49.

>> And what is it worth?

>> It's worth probably 11,000.

>> Okay. And so what do you guys make?

I make about I guess it kind of varies

on monthtomonth but it's usually around 6,5007,000 a month. >> What do you do?

>> I do line work and then I um I also have

a I work for a farmer on the weekends.

>> Okay. And what's your wife do?

>> She's a stay at home mom. >> Oh. How many kids?

>> Just one. Uh eight months old.

>> Oh. And what did she do before?

>> She was in the medical industry. Uh CNA,

medical assistant, labbotomy. >> Okay. All right. Wow. All right. Um

those cars are not

killing me because you hardly owe anything on them and neither one of them are expensive cars. In other words, like

20 grand sets you free, my man. Sure.

Yeah. >> And so I just I think I instead of worrying about selling the cars, I think I just get 20 grand. So you're making

about 70 and um or a little better than that.

Gross. And we need 20. And you're working. What are you getting paid on the farm gig on the side?

>> Um it's uh it's 25 an hour. And um if I

work um consistently every weekend, it's

uh 750 twice a month. 750 every other

month. >> Yeah. Okay, good. >> Or sorry, excuse me, every other week. Sorry. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's what that's good. So you're getting a lot of hours. That's good. >> Can you get more with him?

>> Um I potentially could. I um he doesn't

run on Sundays and so I have three-day weekends with my main job >> and so I do Saturdays and Mondays with him.

Okay, that's good. >> So, I guess I could work more hours in the day, but as far as getting another day in, I you know, don't really have >> Here's where we're going. Okay, the the hole that you're in with the two cars is

not huge.

It's a It's a good sized hole, but it's not massive. You didn't call me up with 66,000. You called me up with 6,600.

>> Okay. Making 70 plus 25 an hour on the weekends. And there's a potential for her to do some remote work while the baby's sleeping at home with a CNA. A lot of potential for that. Um, and she could >> 9 months, if I heard the numbers right, 9 months, you're paying off that $6,600.

>> Yeah. If you guys lean in and don't go out to eat and don't go on vacation and sell so much stuff that the kid thinks it's next. And so, you know, you just get you just get real scorched earth on your life. And 100% goes towards her car and you get it paid off. And then a 100% goes towards your car and we get it paid off. I mean, do you have any money in savings?

>> We've got like a thousand right now.

>> Okay. So, you got your baby step one going. Very good, Dylan.

>> Right. >> And you guys are in your 20 early 20s.

>> Yep. I'm 24. She's 21.

>> Yeah. Perfect. Okay. Well, you you I got

to tell you, I'm not thrilled and you're not either with these cars, but I talked to a lot of people that got a lot worse than you, man. >> Yes. So, I think I think you dig straight out of these and keep them.

>> Okay. >> And let's try to be debtree. So, you need about $2,000 a month, and you'd be free in in 10 months.

>> Mhm. So squeezing out of your budget and adding a hour or two to her day, an hour or two to your day here and there, and living on nothing and throwing 2,000 bucks a month out of your budget, a detailed budget on every dollar. And I'll give you a year's worth and get you started here, okay? With every dollar.

So you can get in there and it'll co the new every dollar will coach you up and show you what to do next. But it's going to lead you right through what I'm talking about. Let's get those cars paid off as fast as possible. I think with the math you're giving me, Dylan, I'm keeping them and I'm going to pay them off. >> I agree. I love that because he's going to learn something. And by the way, I want to see this about Every Dollar to you, Dylan, and to our entire audience.

This new Every Dollar is way, way, way more than a budgeting app. I mean, this is literally coaching you through every one of the baby steps. It is so incredible. Dylan, you're going to love this because you're now in this journey.

And if you walk this out, like Dave said, and let every dollar be your coach

and and guide you through because that's what this is now, uh you're going to come out on the other side way ahead of everybody else. And I'm a fan, Dave, of young couples paying off cars and driving them until you have to replace them. >> Yeah. And then pay cash for the new one. >> That's what I like the next one.

>> Yeah. Because it teaches you to delay gratification. >> Yeah. >> Which is hard for American couples to do. >> Yeah. that but they man they're perfect to do that because they're not again they didn't call me up 66,000 which most

people do >> although for a half second you thought it was there >> oh I did >> I was reaching for the tums there's a Volkswagen Jetta out there for 66,000 somewhere I promise you >> so yeah that's just man I felt bad for him but I mean this is this is doable this is very doable >> and uh and uh >> what do you think the average household has because you said something that we skip over too much and I'm going to bring the audience back to what you said. The idea of selling, they think it's a oneliner, but it's not.

Selling so much stuff the kid thinks they're next.

household in America has in their house worth of stuff that they could sell? Any kind of guess? You know, that couple's not been married long. >> Yeah. They don't have a ton of stuff. >> So, they're not as much. But I mean, Americans, we collect crap so much that we get a storage bin and pay rent on a storage bin to the for the crap we haven't touched in 5 years. I mean, we're unbelievable. We we we we are the biggest bunch of hoarders on the planet.

>> So, yeah, you got enough crap that you could put on uh what is it? Facebook Marketplace or whatever. Anything. Just put it out there and get that stuff sold. I don't know. But I think the longer you've been married, the the bigger the accumulation. >> I bet it's close to two grand. Oh, easy,

>> easy. Yeah, you can get your baby step one, your $1,000 in one weekend of garage selling. >> Yeah, >> for sure. Most of you.

>> And then in addition to that, you start popping the other stuff on. But people will buy stuff. I mean, I talked to a lady, God, it's a couple years back.

But, >> you know, eBay was the thing for a long time, right? Everybody's popping stuff on eBay, which is still fine. It's still not a bad place to sell stuff, but Facebook Marketplace pretty much competing with it. But this woman was going to garage sales and buying children's clothing for a dime and a nickel and a quarterelling >> and then reselling it for $3 on eBay to

the tune of like $10,000 a month income.

>> We can get out of debt fast with that.

>> I mean, it's just But that you talk about crap we all have. I mean, >> you know, and this is all like, you know, this is this clo I mean, you think about a a fouryear-old, how much they wear out clothing. They don't they grow so fast. Yeah. >> That they don't they wear it three times and they can't get in it anymore.

>> And you man, how do you think George Campbell has that snappy outfit? He's buying middle schoolers kids clothing and he can wear it. He's repurposing it.

He's not here to defend himself. That's terrible. >> It's awful.

He'll get me back. That's going to cost you. >> I know. He'll get me back. >> That's going to cost you. You broadcast that over the live microphone, Ken. That was >> Listen, he's not back in the coffee shop. >> He looks good in Oshkosh, Dave. You know, he does. >> Hey, gently experienced clothing. There is nothing wrong with a lot of us grew up with experienced clothing. >> Oh, man. Nothing gentle about mind.

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[Music]

[Music] Couple of years ago, I got tired of hearing all the um people say that

opportunity in America is dead and you

might as well give up. The little man can't get ahead. The deck is stacked against you. Capitalism didn't work.

It's a scam. And I guess that just came from the college, the communist college professors. I don't know because I don't know where it came from. It didn't come out here in the real world cuz out here in the real world, people are leaving the cave, killing it, and dragging it home every day.

I don't hear a lot of whining out here in the real world. It's mainly in think tanks and you know and in social media by people who live in their mother's basement.

Uh it's easier to build wealth now than at any time in history. Uh your health

is better. Uh your access to information

is quicker. Your ability to launch into a new thing. The training is unbelievably fast. Everything about it.

So, we did the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America at that time, just to find out where millionaires really came from. And we found that 89% of them, that's nine out of 10 are not millionaires because of inherited wealth.

So, if your broke brother-in-law doesn't agree with that, this is data. It's a fact. He's what's known as wrong.

So, that's it. That's a fact. It's a

statistical fact. We did the we did a study of people that was over double what it needed to be in size to be stati

stat statistically significant. We know about research. We have a department that does Ramsey research and we had an outside firm look over our shoulder because we knew the lefties would go crazy when we've discovered that capitalism was alive and well. And so we had to, you know, we had to go, "No, you're just I'm sorry. You're wrong, darling. I'm sorry. You're wrong, darling. You don't know. Once again, you don't know. This is this is where it really happens. So, we started also interviewing actual millionaires on the

air and have continued that. We call them baby steps millionaires because a lot of them have followed our baby steps to get there. Not all of them, but a lot of them have. And so, we get to talk to them occasionally. Jennifer is in Fort Worth, Texas. Jennifer, what is your net worth? >> $1.5 million, which still blows my mind

to say out loud. >> I love it. I'm so glad you said it out loud here. I'm proud of you. So, what's the mix on that? What is what what how many dollars of retirement, house, that kind of stuff. Give me the breakdown by category. >> The bulk of it is in my husband's 401k.

It just rolled over a million dollars.

I've got a little bit along the way, but I mostly have been self-employed. So, most of our retirement is in his nest egg. We've got 350,000 in home equity and then the rest of it in non-retirement, you know, emergency fund, cars, savings accounts, that kind

of thing. >> Very cool. How old are you?

>> We I'm almost 52. My husband just turned 52. So, yeah.

>> And what this a minute? >> I know based on what you've already based on what you told me about how it's mixed up. I know the answer to the question, but I'm going to ask you anyway. How much of this was inherited money? >> Not one single penny.

>> Zero. Precisely >> nothing. We grew up dirt poor and we have been working for a lot of years and of course last month it was our 10 year anniversary of coming and doing our debtree scream live on air with you.

>> Oh wow. >> Yeah. >> And now you're worth 1.5 million. Hm.

>> I'm like oh let me hold on to something.

>> I like it. I like it. I like it. Very cool. So you're how long you all been married? >> 30 years. >> Okay. And during that 30 years what's the range of your income? lowest year to highest year. >> The very first year we were married, we were still college students, so I think we might have managed to ek out $15,000

that year. >> When we got our first grown-up jobs, we were about 60.

>> And um this year we're rolling over 300,000. >> Cool. And what are your careers?

>> My husband's an engineer, which you know goes with the territory. And then I'm a psychologist. I've been in private practice for a lot of years, but now I'm a college professor. So >> Ah, very cool. Very cool. And what was his GPA? Do you know?

>> Um, he was right about 3.5.

>> Okay. And what was yours?

>> Undergrad was 3.14. My grad was 365.

>> Okay. Perfect. Okay. Good. Good. And what do you drive?

>> Um, so uh my my husband's in a 20 2022

uh RAV 4 Toyota. I have the Dave carve

which, you know, I love because we have no payments, but it is a nice little sporty car. Lexus UX 200 F Sport 2019

red leather seats.

>> All right. >> It's it's the the the bonus for being debtree. >> I like it. I like it. Well, you both got decent cars because a lot of times when I talk to millionaires, I have to tell them to go buy a car. >> And you got you guys are both you're in pretty good shape on your cars. Good. We that was part of our problem is I like new cars and shiny things a little bit too much back in the day. So now we drive them with no payments.

>> Very cool. Very proud of you. Oh man.

What do you tell people if they're out there listening and they're the uh you guys are 52, you've been married 30 years and they're just getting started and so they're 22 um 23. Can they still be a millionaire

today in America?

>> Oh, absolutely. Why? The biggest the biggest piece of advice that I'm going to tell them as well is don't hide your journey from your kids. One of our biggest goals was to change our family tree. And in fact, we made shirts to that effect when we came 10 years ago.

Our kids journeyed alongside us. We did the smart money, smart kids, you know, with the kids during COVID. We did, you

know, the homeschool personal finance material with our older two who were 13 and 15 at that point. I'll never forget my 15-year-old saying credit cards are stupid. She is going to be 21 this week.

She's a college student. Our middle one's a college student. They are both going nearly 100% scholarship. They'll

be debtree walking out with their degrees instead of the six figure student loan that I had. It's important that you know what your priorities are, right? And so we we actually don't even own all the house we could afford. our house. We still have a bit of a mortgage, but um it's like 15% of our income so that we can, you know, travel

and enjoy life and help our kids with the rest of their tuition. And our youngest is in a Christian school because those things are our priorities.

And being intentional, and you talk about that, I know a lot.

>> Amen. is is important about why you're

doing what you're doing and not just the

next shiny thing which I mean that took us a while cuz my husband and I neither one are savors >> but I mean we're showing pictures of you guys on YouTube like in Hawaii and everywhere else. So isn't like you lived in a cave and collected lint only came out on triple coupon Thursday.

>> The Hawaii trip every about 3 years or so we try to take a super super nice vacation and the Hawaii trip was a reschedule. It got cancelled initially because of >> COVID. >> Mhm. >> And then both of our HCA units went out

and then our water heaters exploded and then we had to have the foundation on the house leveled and I just stomped my feet and said, "Stop taking my Hawaii fund because we kept having to raid the

vacation fund to fix the house." And then we finally saved up again and we were able to take that trip this last January with the kids and had an amazing. >> But now you're 52 >> with a $300,000 income.

>> Yeah. >> And you are worth $1.5 million. I'm so proud of you. Way to go, kiddo. Very cool. >> You know, one of the things you hear in this, and I want to make sure everybody catches it, is there's an unbelievable discipline, but don't miss that what fuels the discipline is a vision for their future life. And it was so fun to see the picture 10 years ago in our old building. Remember that spot so very well. >> And there they are. Kids are little at that time. They're elementary.

>> And and now we get to hear this call on the other side of that. And uh you heard

what I love about what she shared there, Dave, was HVAC going out, house

foundation, stuff that would break

people who are broke. Break them in every way. and they weathered it, got on the other side of it, and now they're on their way to crush it. So, this is the real story that you don't hear in those clickable articles or in the Tik Toks and the Instagrams because there's so much more to this story. So, really heartening uh and really inspiring to hear this call. >> Yeah. As we did that study of millionaires, the thing she was referencing was the top five career

choices of millionaires. most often that appeared to be millionaire is engineer and her husband's an engineer. So, uh very interesting. Um number two was accountant, number three was business executive, number four was teach, number three was teacher, I'm sorry, number four was business executive, number five was uh lawyer,

medical doctor didn't even make the top five. They were number six cuz they're notoriously bad with money. And so uh but incredible, incredible stuff. Why do we tell you guys all this? to remind you you can do it. You can do it. You

talking to you. You You got to make choices and then you can win.

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Pros are handpicked by us to guide you through the market. They're high octane, high protein, get her done people. Find a local trusted pro, a Ramsey trusted pro for free at ramseysolutions.com/agents or click the night click the link in the show notes. Alexis is in Oklahoma. Hi Alexis, how are you?

>> Good Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, my husband and I are about with

credit cards and student loans combined about $25,498.96

in debt. Um, he's the only one currently working. I am a stay-at-home mom to

three little ones, and I'm going to school, so things are tight here.

>> Mhm. And busy. How old are the little ones? >> Uh, four, two and a half, and 10 months.

>> And why are you going to school?

>> I'm going to school to be a teacher, just to finish my degree. Um, yeah.

>> To be a teacher?

>> Yeah.

Okay. I know. >> No, I'm there's nothing wrong with being a teacher. >> Yeah. >> I'm just confused. You have three little ones and you're a stay-at-home mom. Why?

And you're going to quit doing that and go be a teacher.

>> Um maybe. Yeah. My my grandma, she passed away from cancer a while ago and she just really wanted to see me graduate. So, I'm kind of doing it for her. >> Well, that's great for her. But you're broke. >> Yeah, I know.

>> And you can still do it later, but right now, how much is this costing you? Give us real numbers on this this degree. How much does it cost? >> So, right now I I'm getting FASA um financial aid and I have um I have a scholarship to where um I get $1,500

split each semester. Um so my semester is probably about 6,000 a little bit more each semester and then after I graduate and I get a teaching position, they'll pay me $4,000 for five years.

>> Yeah.

Um >> and I'm a junior.

>> Okay. So, um,

you know, but you're going to graduate with no apparent use because you're going to stay home and cave with kids,

>> possibly. Yeah. >> The only reason they're doing this as grandma has nothing to do with your life. >> Yeah.

Yeah. I know. And uh >> I mean, I don't I don't want you to not get the degree, but you called me up broke and stuff. >> I know. I know. >> And you're going to school for a degree that you're not going to use.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Okay. Anyway, so what's your husband make? >> He makes $2,493.52

a month. >> Good lord. What does he do?

>> He's an apprentice for an electrician, but he's currently taking like the test to become a journeysman, so he can make more. >> When?

>> Um, he takes it again November 1st. He took it last week and missed it by two points. >> Okay. So when he goes to tourman, as

soon as he passes his test, November the 1st, so another month, >> yes. >> What will he be making then?

>> Right now he makes about $19 an hour. I

I think it'd probably go up to more dollars and then whenever he gets his full, this is just his limited. I think he could go up to $40 depending on where he worked. >> Man, this job sucks.

>> Yeah, >> that's horrible.

You can make that a target >> without passing a test.

>> If you can fog up a mirror, you can make that a target. That's the only test they've got.

>> Is it But this is for sure what he wants to do long term. Correct.

>> Yes. Yes. >> Well, that's part of the process. >> Long-term goal. >> Yeah. No, I I listen, that's the only way to do it. Uh but you he's got to bring in some more income while he's doing that. We're not just We're not just going to keep >> 2400 bucks. >> You're starving to death.

Yeah. >> And you need to pause this education plan if possible. I don't know if you can even do it right now. You're already committed for the six grand, right?

>> Uh yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay. As soon as this semester is over, you push pause. Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Until you get your family up, right?

>> Because y'all are starving to death because you're not working. the time you're spending going to school, you could spend tutoring at 40 bucks an hour and he's got to take some weekend hustles where he's making 30 or 40 bucks an hour because he's getting screwed during his day job until he gets out of this journeyman stuff.

>> Yeah, he did that this weekend. He made about $400 extra this weekend.

>> Good. Like every weekend starting now, ready, set, go. He has three little babies and $25,000 in debt and he's making nothing. You guys are below the poverty level and it's because of your income choices.

>> Mhm. It's not because you're lazy. But when you have three kids in Oklahoma, you're below the poverty level.

>> Yes. >> On his day job. That's how bad his job is. >> Yes. And thankfully our house is paid off. So we don't have a mortgage and we have >> How did that happen?

>> My grandfather saw that we were uh

suffering. So he offered to pay off it.

But it's like I am slowly paying him whenever we can.

>> Oh, so it's not paid off.

>> No. or it's either that or my inheritance if he passed away before.

>> Okay.

Well, um he said don't worry about it.

So, I'm not um >> Yeah, >> I'll just let the uh payment occur at at

at death. Um

yeah, you guys have an income problem, Hunt. That's your problem. >> Mhm. >> And so, if you once you solve your income problem, you're going to solve all the other problems.

And that's where all your stress is coming from is and it's it's math thing. It's not saying you're doing something wrong or you're lazy or anything like that. You got three little babies and you're trying to go to school. I'd have three little babies and I'd be tutoring and he needs to be working weekends and everything he can get his hands on.

Not 19 an hour and you get a 50 cent raise if you pass a test. Give me a break.

That's asinine in today's world. So, I

mean, you can cuz you can walk over to FedEx and throw boxes, man. I mean, and make what? 2022, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he can definitely uh be making more. What I don't know in that particular neck of the woods is what is the standard process for moving into that journeyman role.

Uh, each state is different. Each local economy is different on that. So, I'm not sure.

>> That's right. That's right. >> And so this I'm not I'm not going to lay in this union No thing for very long if it doesn't start paying off. >> He could be making more than 400 even on a weekend.

I mean, he he needs to be doing that up in this income >> and then seriously, we need to either get either get the income up there or pick a different track with the trade that he's in. >> Yeah. >> Because there's there's just not enough money there. And um it's not a union thing, non-union thing.

It's a math thing. If if the union's not paying what everybody else is paying, then the union don't get the deal.

And so, it's supposed to be there for you, but doesn't always work that way.

>> So, Wow. Wow. Ouch. You know, I I

listen, I don't this I I'm not trying to

be controversial, but and here's another thing. Like I All right, I'm not gonna qualify, Dave. You may not even like this, but I'm going to say it. I think you got to be responsible as a young couple. Um, if you aren't earning the

income to be able to provide for three little kids, then that's got to be you got to be smart about that. and and let's let's hold off on the kids until we can actually take care of them because it is it is to me inexcusable

to have three little ones uh and be below the poverty line in the United States. I think there's got to be and I'm not picking I'm just saying you got to be responsible and that may be a controversial take but you got to be able to take care of the people you bring into this world and think of that ahead of time. think of that, not just, hey, let's let's go. Let's do this.

Let's start a family and then not have a plan to take care of them.

>> Yeah. But the difference is one or two phone calls and the whole thing changes.

>> I agree >> in terms of income. >> But I'm saying get some urgency. If you've done that and you can't take care of them, then nothing else matters.

>> Yeah. >> Take care of those. >> Your obligation is not to your employer.

Your obligation is to your family.

>> Yes. If your employer is not cutting the mustard with their pay scale, time to change. And so I don't care that that, you know, that pisses you off if you're union, then just get pissed off. Pisses you off if you're non-union, then it's fine. Just get pissed off. That's fine.

But the deal is this. You You got job one. Like Ken said, job one.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Thank you for being with us. 888255225

is the number. Melissa is in Florida. Hi Melissa, how are you?

>> Hi, good. How are you guys? better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> So, um, basically I am in baby step

four, five, and six. Um, I just recently

paid off my last debt. Um, the problem

is is that I've done step one through

three twice now. And the first time I

did it, um, I ended up getting another car loan. And then, of course, I had to restart again. So, >> the class I did. I did. But you know what? I learned and I moved on.

>> Okay. Glad. I'm in it again.

>> Good. >> Um, so now I I have this fear and um that

that I'm going to go back again. So I'm

really kind of struggling how to plan my

budget to include those things. Um

because last time um we had just paid off a car. It got

totaled, rearended and totaled and then we had no car. So >> why? You didn't have insurance?

>> We did, but >> Oh, you just didn't like the amount that the insurance gave you and you wanted a better car. >> Yeah. >> So it's not the wreck's fault.

>> No, it's not. >> Okay. >> No.

Um, so the car was was worth more to us

than the insurance company and and um we ended up with um not enough to replace

what we had. So we need

>> true dumb. No, no, no, no, no. You got to quit telling yourself lies. Okay. The insurance company pays market value for a car. If they don't, you should sue them. >> When a car gets total, they write you a check for what the car is worth. which means by definition you could go buy that car with that amount of money.

That's the definition of market value.

>> And so they did give you enough to buy that car. You just didn't want it.

>> Oh, well, yeah. I mean, we I couldn't go

out and buy that same exact car.

>> Yes, you could. >> That's market value. If you didn't, you should have sued your insurance company.

>> Okay. >> You understand that? They're supposed to give you market value for the car when you total it. That's that's what the insurance policy is for. You understand?

Yes, I do understand now.

>> Um, now that you told me that, I never thought about it that way. I just assumed this is the situation we're in and I just >> I didn't think of >> What are you so afraid of? This is all mindset stuff. What are you afraid of happening again that you're going to somehow fall back into it? What is the fear?

>> Um, probably my ability to make

decisions. Are you single?

>> No. >> I thought you said we. Yeah. Okay. So, where was your husband during all of this? >> Um, we were doing it together.

>> Uhhuh. Okay. So, I'm afraid about our ability to make decisions then.

>> Yeah, maybe. >> Okay. >> Um, I I make a bulk of the money choices, so um I do include him, of

course. Um, but he's he's more like, "Oh, you're better at it. You do it." Um so I have control over everything I

think. >> Okay. So let me tell you when you will um never go back in debt again.

When you decide that you will do anything to never go back in debt again.

When you decide I'm going to live on less than I make for the rest of my life. That's and and no matter what happens, no matter what we make, no matter what the circumstance, no matter what the tragedy, no matter what the drama, we are going to live on less than we make, we are never going into debt again. But that is a that's a principalbased decision. It's not a math thing.

Cuz 100% of the time that you make that decision, your transmission is going to go out next week. And and God says, "This is a test." Like the emergency broadcast system. You remember that?

>> Yeah. and you're going to flunk the test if you don't have this drawn. You know, it's it's pinky swear spit shake. It's it's, you know, >> we're we're doing a contract here with ourselves for our own good.

And you've got to decide that that's more important than a little better car. That's more important than no matter what comes at us, we don't borrow money. That's what Ramsay say. >> And you got to get to where you say that.

And then then you go, okay, something came at us, we can't borrow money because we don't borrow money anymore. So now what are we going to do since this thing came at us and we don't borrow money? How are we going to fix it?

And you got to get to where that's the way you're responding as a as a mindset to life as it comes at you. Whether it's opportunities or uh the other ones is I had a guy bring me a deal the other day that was several hundred million dollars more than I have. And he goes, "Well, you could just leverage." And I'm like, "Dude, who do you think you're having lunch with? I mean, really?

You got to be kidding me. What? What? What planet are you on that you think I'm going to borrow money for any opportunity or any threat?

want bad enough to do that. And when you kind of get that going down inside of you, that's the only thing that there's no there's no fail safe. There's no amount of cash that'll keep you from borrowing money because some some opportunity will come along. You'll get greedy. Oh, I got to be in on that.

FOMO, right? Oh, I got to get that. I got to get that. That's a that's a sweet deal right there. I don't want to miss out on that. Oh. Oh, or you'll feel like

you're pressured or I was forced or something bad happened, a total car and then there we go again. Yeah. The tone that I hear from you is you just don't trust yourself.

And I I just don't know why. And I think

there's probably something deeper there, but you've proven it twice now that you could work this process. Now, you fell.

You mentioned that you fell. You got back up. And now here you are back in four, five, and six. But the issue is the very nature of your question implies to me that um you just don't believe

that you have any agency that you can't do it and and your life says otherwise.

Now I don't know what's going on way back might be worth digging in a little bit but this this idea that I'm going to call Dave and Ken and how do I make sure I don't do this again. We don't have any magical answer because for us we've made this big decision as our friend John Maxwell said make the big decisions early and spend the rest of your life managing that decision. So at this point you got to say am I serious about this decision and then do I believe with great conviction that I can manage this decision the rest of my life.

Same thing with marriage and saying I'm not going to get a divorce no matter what. Come hell high water we're going to figure it out. Uh, I'm going to be healthy with my weight. Yeah, whatever it is.

You >> youth ministry, we used to say it and then I said it to my kids when they were teenagers, too.

>> That is completely correct. >> You got to decide like months before the back seat >> because if you don't decide before you get in the back seat, you're going to have sex. >> 100% chance. Yep.

>> Okay. There's a 100% chance. Man's been doing that since time began. Okay.

you if you're not gonna if you're gonna say I'm not having sex before I get married, then you have to decide that and stand on that long before the heat gets turned up. And so you got to decide before the heat gets turned up, I'm not borrowing money. I'm going to live on less than I make. And uh and by the way, uh your husband needs to step up.

You're better at this.

Larry Bquette said used to say, "If two people just alike get married, one of you is unnecessary." You need to be working together on this and bringing both your strengths and weaknesses to these decisions and you'll make better decisions. In the multitude of council, there's safety

[Music]

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Might not be in all states. >> Today's question comes from Brett in Texas. I've worked for a large fire department for 5 years. I love my job, but the department is having a lot of issues right now. Our pension is apparently over $1 billion underfunded.

The city takes 13% of my paycheck for my pension, and they do not, excuse me, and they do match those funds. I don't have a say in how the money is managed or used. Is a poorly managed pension a good enough reason to consider leaving? I had always dreamed of making my career here, but with the pension and a few smaller issues, I'm left wondering if I'm currently a passenger on a sinking ship or if I should get to the lifeboats while I still have time.

Um, Dave, I I have to bring you in here. I think it's enough. My answer would be, yeah, it's enough to to leave if you feel like the whole thing is uh a mess, which it sounds like it is, but does he have the option on the city taking?

So, he's stuck. >> No, it's not the pension going down that bothers me. It's the 13% of your income they make you put into something that's going down. >> That concerns me. >> So, in order to keep this job, you have to take 13% of your income into the middle of the floor and burn it every week. >> Yeah. And hope that it's there. >> That's what he's saying, right? So, no thank you cuz 13% of your income invested in a 401k will make you a millionaire. And this won't.

So, sorry, man. Yeah, you got to go to a different fire department. That one's not run well enough to keep you around.

And uh a billion underfunded.

Oo. Feels like that should be a news story. That's a lot.

>> Sounds like like Illinois or Chicago.

>> Do you have any sense of how that happens?

>> Yeah, you do too. >> Miss his poor management. Yeah. >> Well, I think it's almost devious is what I'm >> Yeah, there might there might even be some >> I don't know if that's a oh shucks or a >> Wait a minute. He's not in Chicago. He says he's in Texas. >> Texas. Yeah. >> Where in the crap in Texas or something run that poorly? It just feels like somebody that's unusual doing something.

>> That's a major metro area for it to be that far a billion. I mean, you don't get that in >> Yeah. >> You know, the little suburb, but you're

probably Yeah. You're probably just moving to a different fire department, my man. That's the thing. Golly.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. >> That stinks. >> Cindy is with us in California. Hi, Cindy. How are you?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Well, um me and my husband are at odds

with some money that we received and we are in baby step fourish. We just

started putting more money into my Roth

IRA, like the one I have at work.

>> And then um we're going to max it out

yearly. We have 285,000

left of this money.

and we just need to pay off our house.

>> Okay, good. >> Which is 260,000.

>> Great.

>> Great. But he's laughing, mind you. Um

the thing is is that he wants to invest

it because we're really not set up good for retirement, which on some level I agree with.

But wouldn't it be best to have the house paid off?

>> We have a little How old are you guys?

>> I'm 58. He's 56.

>> Okay. And you How much do you have in retirement?

>> Um, probably 60,000.

>> Wow. >> I guess. Yeah. We're not really Well, >> what's your household income?

>> Well, his is 115. That's his pension.

>> Um, >> he's got he's got he has a pension at 58

>> 56. And so what's what's his income?

Does he work?

>> No. >> Why?

>> Because he recently had um some extreme

medical issues and um he had to retire early.

>> So and it's >> is he going to make it?

>> Yes.

With the grace of God? Yes. Yes. Yes.

>> Is he going to be able to work in the future? Um,

not really. Why? >> But, >> well, because um,

right now we have to wait about a year.

It was a a double lung transplant.

>> Okay. Well, that that makes sense.

>> So, so yeah. So, >> that's pretty severe. I said that's pretty severe. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's um >> So, what do you make?

>> Um, about 48,000.

And >> and how much life insurance do you have on him?

>> Um I think I get 100,000.

>> 100,000 or 800?

>> 100. >> Okay. All right. So um if he passes away

financially, you're in really bad shape.

Does the pension survive him? Do you get it if he dies? >> Yes. Yes. >> Oh, then you're not in really bad shape.

Okay. >> No. See, and and and I I see like I

don't plan to retire anytime soon.

>> Oh, you can't. >> You know, where we live, I mean, it's horrible. California money is like our

insurance bills are ridiculous. So, but

that's why I wanted to get rid of it.

But our house payment is 1247 a month

and it's a 3.1025.

>> What's your house worth? >> Interest rate. uh 460 and we owe two the

last statement said 260.

>> Where in California are you

>> go up north? >> Oh, okay. All right.

>> But we're also in fire country. So that is another huge ginormous.

>> Are your family around you? Why are you there? >> Yes. Yeah. No. And we we are married to the hospital we went to. And so we're we

wanted to originally move >> that we had different plans, but now >> So the answer to your question overall is that you are better off if he lives or if he dies with a house paid off.

>> You're better off going into retirement with the house paid off because there's two things you need going into retirement. A large nest egg. In this case, you have a pension and 60,000. and you're going to start putting an old house payment now that you don't have anymore into your 401ks and Roth IAS and

you're going to start to grow those rapidly from this point forward because you don't have a house payment anymore.

But when you go into into retirement, you do not need to still be owing 200,000 bucks on a house when you've got the ability to pay it off. And the number of millionaires that we have interviewed that said the way we made the way we got rich, the way we caught up on our retirement investing was we didn't pay off our house and instead invested the money and that made us rich. The number of millionaires that said that was precisely zero. No one does that that has money, >> right?

>> The people that have money get out of debt and use the increased cash flow because they don't have a house payment anymore to build wealth with. And that's what you guys should be doing in the middle of all this. Wow.

>> Yeah, I I don't know what you say there.

I hope with his lung double lung transplant, the hope that on the other side of this, he can do some work because again, it's all about catchup at this point. >> Yeah. You just need income. >> Yeah. But with no house payment and her income and his pension >> in his pension, you can go ahead and start making some progress and then hopefully as young as he is, he's going to be able to add >> to, you know, collect his pension and

make more uh at doing something.

Obviously, he's not going to be doing some extreme physical thing. Am I crazy

to be a person who goes, "Look, I don't care how much families around us. If I'm

making a comment like that about how expensive estate is, I'm going what's three, four hours away where we can dramatically change our living expenses.

I I get being close to family and I'm not. >> No, she said they're married to the hospital, too. >> I didn't understand that. >> Well, I mean, the lung transplant, they're they're tied in. That's their medical community. >> It's got to be there >> for a while. For a while. For a while.

>> Yeah. >> But I in general, I just I I'm going to

make changes to my life to reset if I

have to. I don't care how close family is to me. >> No, that's what people have done.

There's that's why millions and millions and millions of people have moved. >> Yeah. >> In America. So, and I think they all moved to my neighborhood.

But um >> Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. No income tax and and you know, >> do you make them sign a uh a statement of living? Well, I'm trying to get a law passed in Tennessee that you can't vote until you go through a proper voting class on how to vote properly, but nobody's nobody's buying off on that.

So, I don't think I don't think I'm going to get elected >> because you're a native Tennessian. So, >> I don't think I'm going to get elected. Yeah. >> You're one of the few in Nashville. You could do your own course. >> Yeah. This is proper voting.

[Music]

[Applause]

If you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on or pay the mortgage or afford groceries? If someone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance. But how do you

choose? Well, it's actually simple. Life insurance is one job. It's to replace your income if you die. term life insurance is the least expensive and the only kind that does only that. The others like whole life or permanent life try to add investing. They end up doing everything poorly. That's an understatement.

You only need life insurance when someone depends on you financially. So if you're like most people, you need a policy worth 10 to 12 times your income for about 15 to 20 year level term

insurance. Level means the premium stays the same. For more info and resources, use the free termlife insuranceguide at ramseyolutions.com/termlifeguide

or click the link in the show notes.

Jim's in San Diego. Hi Jim, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. Honor to speak with you and Ken. Thanks for having me on. >> Certainly. How can we help? >> Um, so I've got a question for you. Um,

my wife and I are very blessed. Uh, we are both 30 years old and married a little over a year. Um, we've got about $800,000 in non-qualified assets and another $400,000 in qualified assets.

And we're going to be getting an inheritance of a million dollar. And we're looking to spend >> it on it's a little less than a million, but for rounding purposes, >> um, we're looking to spend it on a house

>> and use that, you know, million as a down payment and get about either a $600,000 loan.

>> I'm uncomfortable with any kind of loans. Uh the last debt I had or that we both had was actually my student loans, which I've paid off at this point. Um and I'm apprehensive about getting a mortgage, especially a $600,000 mortgage. And the question is, do we take the $800,000 and apply that to the $600,000 mortgage, and pay it off, pay off the house in cash with $200,000 remaining in brokerages and bank accounts? or do we use that $800,000

in the brokerages and bank accounts and use the dividends and uh uh uh basically

liquidate some of the assets every year.

>> What do you make?

>> Uh both of us combined were about $200,000 in salary and that's another

120 to 160 and uh bonuses and commissions. >> Right now we're living well underneath the $200,000.

>> But you make 350 and that's where you got the 800 is you saved like crazy.

Yes. >> Okay. So, you're you're maniac savers.

Way to go. That's cool. And you're you're riskaverse, so you're avoiding debt and you're saving both. That's pushing you. And you're doing really well with your careers. Way to go, man.

Congratulations. Such choices to have to make. >> Appreciate that. >> So, the house The house you're living in, what's it worth?

>> Uh, we're thinking it's going to be Well, >> oh, the house you live in today, where do you live today? >> Oh, we're we're renting right now.

>> Yeah. What's it worth?

It's about 2,900 a month as our rent.

>> Yeah. What's the house that you're renting worth?

>> Oh, it's an apartment.

>> Oh, okay. So, you're renting an apartment that's 2,900 a month.

>> Okay. >> And you've still been able to with a $36,000 a year rent bill been able to

save hundreds of thousands a year?

>> Yes. >> Pretty incredible.

I mean, what could you do if you didn't have a monthly housing cost? Wow.

So, you're moving from an apartment to a million6, but a million six in San Diego is no palace. It's a nice house, but it's not a palace. >> Yes. Correct. >> It's It's not a million six in Abalene.

It's a million six in in San Diego.

>> So, um but again, it's nice house. I mean, it's probably the average I think the median now is about 6 or 700 in San Diego and the median nationally is 422.

So, um, >> yes, >> that's that that's probably So, you're about double or a little over double the the median in the area. H Okay. Very

interesting. So, well, the way we look at it is simple. Uh, I in your situation, I would not buy the house unless I paid cash for it.

>> Okay. >> And and the reason is very simple. Um

there's multiple reasons, but there's there's the first one that comes to mind is you'll take the increased cash flow and grow the money back in no time.

>> Okay. >> Okay. A >> and because it's just the way you're wired. Number two, um the damage

that having a mortgage does to anyone is

multiplied when we talk about you

because of the way you're wired.

If most people felt like they put 300 lb on their shoulders doing this, you're going to feel like you put a,000 lbs on your shoulders.

>> Yes. >> And it's going to start affecting everything negatively.

>> Okay. >> And in in ways that are not necessarily

uh directly attributable.

Okay. Here's what I mean by that. Okay.

One of the things I've discovered in my business career and watching people over these years with their careers in general is people make much more

positive career decisions when they're not forced into it to make a payment.

And and so they don't they don't stay in negative toxic environments. Instead, they move to better environments. And people so people that live debt-free end up uh prospering in their careers more

because they can say take this job and shove it.

>> Gotcha. Okay. >> And you're you're going to be like the multiples of that because you're like the ultimate I hate debt saving nerd guy

and I love you for that.

>> Thank you. >> But but debt would do more damage to your spirit than other people's is what I'm saying.

>> Because of >> I feel that. Yeah. >> Yeah. Because of who you are. My wife and I are very riskaverse on the

>> Yeah, she she is, but she's not anywhere near like you.

>> I mean, you're off you're off the chain.

>> You're off the chain in a good way. It's nothing I'm not I think it's awesome. I am too now, but it took me a while to get there. But, I mean, you know, you're you're there and it's caused you look at the look at the cause and effect of that. I mean, you guys made 350,000. You

live in freaking Southern California, one of the most expensive areas in the world, and you banked 800 grand

instead of spending it all. I mean, you guys are incredible.

>> That that that skill set >> set you up to be I mean, you're going to you're have 10 or 20 million dollars in a decade. It's crazy how much money you're going to have. >> I I would just say very simply, trust your gut. It's so obvious to us where you and your wife stand.

You more than her, sure. But you will regret this if you take a mortgage out. You could feel it all over you. And you just don't want to feel that.

>> You'll be fine. >> I think your 350 will turn into 450 in income faster by not having a mortgage than if you took one out. >> It's going to affect your income and people don't think about that. >> I think it affect his every You nailed it.

I think it'll affect his overall mental health. >> That's what I mean. >> He's just not going to do well with that, which is great. >> Yeah.

I mean, I I don't have no idea.

haven't been able to get any good research and we've not done the research to tie all the way back for the rest of you folks, not for him, but for all of us. Um the tie between um uh uh uh

actual physical illness and debt levels.

>> Yeah, I would love to see that because I mean the the So I mean what if you what if you could actually figure out that a certain number of heart attacks out of a thousand heart attacks are caused by financial stress? Then we could say that debt actually has a cost, a medical cost

because you have to pay for the hospital when you have a heart attack, right? And you've shortened your lifespan.

>> Why? Because you're carrying so much debt and there's hypertension. I mean, what hypertension is number two right now? High blood pressure, right?

Heart attacks, right? But so we we don't have any actual data to back that up. But what if you went through all the heart attacks and you pulled out the debt levels versus those of us that not had a heart attack and had no debt and see what the actual correlations are. It's got to be there, y'all.

Common sense tells you it's there. And then so then you factor in, okay, I'm making I got a mortgage of 4% and I invested it at 4.5%. I'm making a spread. No, not with you.

Not with a heart attack adjustment.

>> That would change the math, wouldn't it, Ken? >> Yeah, it really would.

would be different. But nobody talks about that kind of stuff. Oh, wait a minute. The percentage number one cause of divorce in North America today? Money fights. Money problems. You know who has money fights and money problems? Broke people more than rich people. Rich

people don't fight in money about money nearly as much as poor people do. Broke people. I mean, Sharon and I about killed each other when we went broke. I mean, she's from the hills of East Tennessee frying pan throwing. There's an Olympic event. Like even the German judge gave her a 9.9. I mean, come on.

Right. And it's like, God. So, yeah. I mean, you It's no fun. No fun. So, I

mean, what if the cost of a lost marriage due to financial stress was factored into your little formula where you thought you were making money with borrowed money? Oh, it would kind of dissipate that, wouldn't it? Oh, yeah.

Put the heart attack and the divorce factor on there. Kind of does away with the whole idea that borrowing money is really smart.

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 3:1 and2. For there is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heavens. A time to be born and a time to die. A time to plant

and a time to uproot. Rosa Park said, "Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground." That's good.

That's fun. All right. Uh Devon is in

Ohio. Hi Devon. How are you?

>> Good. Good. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? Uh, so just really I have a couple questions here. I'll just kind of give you a rundown of what I got um as far as debt wise and um everything else here.

So my total debt's about 182,000. Um

138,000 of that is in my mortgage for my house. Um I have 43 acres. It's nice piece of property. Um the other debt is

my service truck that I use for work. Um it's $43,000.

Um, so that being said, I have some other equipment as well. Um, I got like dozers, excavators, pickup trucks. Those are all paid for in cash. Um,

that's going to equivalent to about $95,000.

If I sold all that, that's what I would have in cash. Um, also have a rental

house that's 100% paid for. Um,

and I have about $30,000 in state.

>> Okay. And what's the rental house worth?

>> Uh, probably lower 200s. Um, just

recently. >> What's your house in 43 worth?

>> Uh, lower 400s.

>> Okay, good for you. Well done, sir. What kind of service work do you do in the truck? >> Uh, field mechanic. Uh, I traveled for the last four, four and a half years for a stabilization company and found a job closer to home that basically they're leasing my truck off of me now. So, kind of a pay upgrade, if you will.

>> Okay. And so, you're you're you're turning a wrench on what?

>> Uh, just different types of equipment.

Excavators, dozers, you name it, I fix it. >> Okay. Heavy equipment. Okay, cool. Good for you. >> And thus, you've run into some bargains and bought some and you've got 43 acres to play on it with. Always looking for a deal. >> Yeah. Yeah. What's your income?

>> Uh anywhere from 130 to 145,000

a year. >> All right. Um and your question is what, sir?

>> So, basically, I have this debt. Um I would like to get my truck service truck paid off. >> Good. >> Um it's technically in my name, but I'd like to get it switched over to my business name. That way, that is in my business. >> Yeah. But you're not going to get the loan. You can get the truck turned over, but not the loan.

>> Right. Correct. Yeah.

>> All right. You got to pay it off. I agree. Okay. What else?

>> Um my next thing is when I sell um this

equipment and my pickup trucks and stuff that I've paid cash for over the last 5 years, um should I take that money and pay the rest of my house off or should I invest that money um into some more real estate? >> Yeah, good question. Okay. Well, if I'm

in your shoes, um,

uh, I'm going to sell the $90,000 worth

of equipment and pay off the truck and

pay towards the house, and that gets me down to less than 100 on your home.

Agreed.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And um then I would look at and

say, "All right, how old are you?" >> Uh, 24. I'll be 25 Friday.

>> Way to go, dude. That that that's a

super impressive. I thought I thought you were going to tell me 34 with these numbers. You've done really well.

>> Well done, young man. Well done. All right. Uh that's that's that's impressive. Um

that does ch that calms my answer a

little bit. Okay. Yeah.

>> Uh because you got lots of time. Okay.

And so I don't want to stay in debt and wallow around in it because you're young. I don't mean that. But I would sell the equipment because you're going to run into other equipment. You're always going to be able to buy a piece of equipment for five grand, turn it for 10.

>> Yeah. >> You you're going to run into that and you know the equipment because you turn a wrench on it.

>> Yep. >> No horses involved, but but you know what I'm talking about. So, >> yeah. So, anyway, the uh um

>> that and that's going to always be a part of your income because of the way you work. So, yeah, I would sell the equipment, pay off your truck, pay down the mortgage, and then I would just begin to say, "All right, out of my 130,000 with no truck payment,

uh h how can I begin to attack that

100,000? And when could I be done with it?" I mean, you could be done with it in like three years if you watch what you're doing, right?

>> Yeah. >> And you'd be 100% debtree with a paid for $400,000 house, a paid for rental house of 200. That's 600. And

then you start, you know, you start your long-term investing and your Roth IAS and some good growth stock mutual funds. You sit down with a good smart investor pro and uh dude, you're going to, you know, you're going to be a millionaire by the time you're probably 28.

>> That'd be sweet. >> Yeah, that's where you're headed. Um, if you follow just that basic idea there and then, you know, when you make some extra money, don't blow it. Let's just chunk it on the house. Just get the house done because here's the thing. We were talking about this a minute ago before we picked up with you that um

you're going to make different decisions on which clients you want and you're

going to make more money in your business when you don't have a single debt. >> Your business is going to flourish because you're clean and there's no pressure. You know, you know what I'm talking about when you know that they certain customers are not worth the juice ain't worth the squeeze, >> right? You know, some of them are such butts, they're not worth working with for any amount of money.

>> The way I have it set up right now is I'm technically in the union, so the company that I'm working for um pays all my um pension and health and all that.

Um I have about $40,000 in my pension right now. Um >> that's a good start, but I want you to have independent IAS also.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> I want you to have Roth IAS going in addition to that.

um not just the union pension but son I

mean sir you have done an incredible job I'm very proud of where you are and here's the other thing that I know the other reason I know you're going to be successful not only that you've made the progress you've made to be where you are at 24 but also the way you're asking these questions you're being you're paying attention you're being very intentional >> correct >> and you're making good this you know some of the stuff you suggested before I even started there was things I was going to suggest >> real quick question How old were you when you got started, Devin, in in this work?

>> Uh, in the heavy equipment industry working on it. Um, I went through a four-year apprentichip program. So, I didn't make the money I'm making now the last two years. So, I would say the last two years I started making 100,000.

>> Yeah. But what how old were you when you started the program? Were you 20? Were you 18? 19? >> Yeah, I was 20. Yep.

>> Yeah. I just And reason I did that is because again, this is you're going to start seeing more and more of these stories in the United States. young guys that are skipping the college route and and going into this kind of a deal. And we're talking about a dude who's not only gonna be a millionaire, he's probably gonna be a very successful small business person.

>> Already is. >> Yeah. >> Well, I'm talking about >> not a millionaire, but he's already a successful small business. >> But I'm talking about where he's got a team.

>> and um and he turns turns a wrench on heavy equipment. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's That's a whole lot smarter than spending $250,000 to get a degree in left-handed puppetry and then being a barista. >> Kid's 24 years old and he's got a house, a rental property that he owns cash.

>> Yeah. >> I just I'm just pointing this out because I'm so tired of the dril of

coming from all the complainers about how no one can win today.

>> Oh yeah, capitalism is dead.

>> Well, don't tell Devon. Okay, >> this is a poster child. >> Don't tell Devon. Don't tell Deon you can't get ahead in America. Don't tell Devon all the opportunities used up.

Don't tell him that the deck is stacked, that there are systemic problems with the economy. Don't you understand?

>> And by the way, he paid his dues. I hope everybody heard that part, too. He wasn't making this kind of money until So, it takes time.

>> Yeah. Some of y'all need to look up what he's got on his hand. It's called a callous.

>> Y'all need to look that up. It'll be good for you. Yeah.

>> So, wow. That's impressive.

>> It's great. It's a great story. It's not glamorous work either. I don't get it.

>> I mean, our our buddy Mike right now would be doing the >> Mike Ro be doing the Trump dance right this second, >> but that's it. But yeah, this is Mike's guy. That's right. >> And I Hey, I I agree with him. I agree with him. It's not for everybody. But this idea that that you know, >> you you need to become a teacher because your grandmother said to.

>> No, maybe not.

Maybe that's a bad idea. Maybe you need to become a teacher because we need great teachers and you're going to go into the classroom and actually teach after you get your degree in teaching.

There's a reason to become a teacher.

Oh, let's think about that for a minute.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

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## 96. It’s Time To Set Boundaries And Start Saying “No!” | December 3, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `3iVaJeFB_QA` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iVaJeFB_QA) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:56:07 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you with your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and host of Front Row Seat, one of our more popular Ramsay network shows. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at825-5225.

Jack is in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi, Jack. How are you?

>> Doing well, thank you Dave and Ken.

Thanks for taking the call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Yeah. So, basically my grandfather had

passed away about 5 years ago and he had

left a trust to his three children. Um,

and basically the way it had been set up

is that after my father passed away, um,

I would receive a lump sum. um each of

those uh each sibling got a lump sum

payment from that trust. Um however, for

my dad, he has been historically been

bad with money and it was set up for him

that he would receive payments annually

in the trust. Um and then once he passes

away I would receive the lump sum. And

after after this he is basically saying

that he wants to

have me sign a document that releases

the trust to him and he plans to spend

the money. And he's threatening me by

bribing bribing me with $5,000 upfront.

>> $5,000.

How much is in the trust?

>> From what I understand, whenever my grandfather was still around, um I

believe his portion is between 250 and

300,000.

So, you're going to trade. He's asking you to trade $300,000 for 5,000 bucks.

>> From what it seems, he has said that he

wants to take that lump sum and he wants

to renovate his house because he is 63

years old. Um, he works as a lawyer and

he wants to renovate his house. He wants to buy a new car and he claims that I

will have the rest of the money.

However, with his historic run of

dealing with finances, I don't believe

that there will be any money left.

>> Hey, Jack. Hey, Jack. Quick question.

You've used two words with us. You said threatened and and bribe. What What does

that actually look like? I haven't heard any evidence of that.

>> I would say it's it's definitely more so bribing. Um him just throwing out one

time he said the first time he said,

"I'll get you $10,000."

Then the second time we had talked about it, he said that he would give me $5,000

upfront.

Um >> Okay. So, what kind of I mean, I'm I'm

sorry. It it's it's just um the math is

not mathing. I mean, he he's so

illogical that he actually believes you would trade 5,000 for 250.

>> That's just bizarre to me.

>> I totally agree. >> What planet does he live on that he thinks you would do that?

>> I don't know. >> I don't either. >> Okay. So you're using words like bullied and bribed with your own father, irresponsible about your own father.

Your grandfather thought he was irresponsible. So you're not going to do this. You had already decided that before you called, right?

>> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. >> So how can we help you? >> However, >> Yes. Um I really just want to know how

to navigate that conversation with my father because >> Okay. You you want to know something that's impossible. It's impossible for you to take a man that is this unreasonable and make him reasonable with one conversation.

That's not possible. Okay? So th this

unreasonable man is going to have an unreasonable reaction to your reasonable

no.

There's no way you can frame a no that

this guy's going to like it

and he's going to go, "Oh, thank you, son. I just love you so much. I'm so proud of you." That's what you wish would happen. There's no conversation that does that because of what you're dealing with on the other side of this.

You know, it's like petting a crocodile and going, "Nice crocodile. Nice crocodile." And hoping you don't get your arm bit off. Of course, you're going to get your arm bit off. It's a crocodile.

So, you know, that's what we're dealing with. So, I I I wish I could make this

make you have a good dad, but you don't.

And so what I can do is just give you the real the real realistic expectation which is you preserve your dignity, your

courage, your kindness, your integrity.

That's the only thing you have control over. You don't have control over his reaction.

So you gently and kindly say, "Dad, grandpa put this in place and I'm just going to abide by grandpa's wishes.

Thanks for asking. I'm sorry it doesn't work for me and we're just going to leave the thing set up like it is. But thanks for asking. I I hope you can find another way to get your house renovated and get you a car since you're a lawyer and all. But and I'll be cheering for you cuz I love you and and he's still going to go bonkers, isn't he?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So 100% be expecting that.

Anything less than bonkers, we'll call it gravy on the biscuit. We'll call it a bonus. But I'm counting on bonkers.

Yeah, I Jack, I don't know if you've ever had surgery before, but I would say that your mindset here has got to be uh the same as going into surgery that you have to have. It's not fun. It's going to hurt. It's going to be some recovery time, but it absolutely has to happen.

And on the other side of the surgery, you're going to be better off >> and there can be healing. >> That's right. And I think you have to go into this going, there's just no way. I think Dave framed it beautifully, but his response to what Dave said, you've got to understand this is one of those situations in life that was forced on you.

You cannot control your dad or the situation he's put you in, but you got to do what's best for you. So, that's the mindset. There's no way this is not going to suck, but on the other side, you're going to be better. >> Anytime you're setting a boundary with a boundaryless person, less is more.

Okay? We're not going into a bunch of explanation or discussion of his character or the history of the family tree. We're not going to try to explain this to him. We're not going to go into a bunch of detail. It's a simple thing.

Dad, you know, I love you and I've thought about this and I I think I'm just going to stick with grandpa's plan and that's what we're going to do. So, I hope it works out for you and I'll be cheering for you.

and just that that that's what 10 seconds maybe of audio and that's all

you need. The longer you talk, the more

you're going to mess this up. So, I use

that when over 35 years now of running a

business on in the rare occasion that we actually have to let someone leave this place. We don't have long discussions.

We've had long discussions up to that point trying to get them better. But the day they leave, it's like the decision has been made. Today is your last day.

That's it. We don't go into why cuz why

has been discussed in the 90 days previous

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>> John is in San Jose. Hey, John. How are you?

>> I'm doing good. How are you doing today?

better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hi. So, I just have a quick question.

Uh, a little bit of a background. Uh, I

have a job as an analyst making around

120K. >> Um, I got a notice last month and they

pretty much uh I I got laid off. So, my last day was yesterday.

>> Um, essentially my question is I live in

San Jose, California. My house is worth around $750,000.

Uh my dad actually gave it to me. Um 32

years old, and um so I have uh $50,000

in student loans, $25,000 in a personal

loan, $25,000 in uh in a car loan, and then around

$5,000 in credit card debt.

>> Mhm. And because of the job loss, I'm kind of concerned right now the market's kind of uh bad in like the tech se sector. So

I'm wondering like if I were to default on these loans, like can they take uh

can they forell my home or how does that look like? And you know, will they be willing to like settle on some of this debt? I do have around uh $10,000 in savings and around $50,000

in 401k money that I can pull out if

needed. >> Are you married?

>> Uh yes, I am married. Uh that's another thing. My wife used to work. She made around 60 to $70,000 a year, but she

paused that cuz she's now she just got into law school and she's uh fulfilling

her dreams of becoming a lawyer. Mhm.

>> What were you making? 120.

>> 120 >> with no house with no house payment. And yet you still ran up all this debt.

>> Uh I do have a house payment. It is

around $1,300.

>> Oh, I thought you said the house was free and clear. How much is your mortgage balance? >> No, there's a mortgage around $50,000.

>> Oh, okay.

So, I do have a house payment and uh housing in the Bay Area is pretty expensive. So, you know, um apart from

like the debt that I have and utilities, like I'm spending around maybe >> Okay, you got a notice a month ago. Why have you not gotten a job?

>> I I've been applying. I've been getting interviews, but I have noticed that it's been uh fairly slow. So, yeah, actively applying uh actively going into interviews. So, um, yes, working on it.

I I guess I'm just, uh, concerned about like if the the job market is as severe

as like it is. Like I I think I have enough money to cover myself for like maybe about four to 6 months. Uh, but I

am worried about that 6 months.

>> The money you gave me doesn't cover you four to six months. You can't make it four to six months on $10,000.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> So, yeah. >> All right. So, there's a bunch of there's a bunch of answers to this question. All right. And let's let me give you all of them.

>> Um, >> first and foremost, you get reemployed and this is a non-issue and that's what you spend all of your calories on.

That's what you work on and Ken can really help line you up on that. And then I'll move on. If you don't get reemployed, um, really you just ought to have your butt kicked. If you don't go get some money coming in, go get a job, okay? And Ken's going to help you with all that. But if you don't, let's just pretend you never work again, okay, for the next year and a half. Okay? So, you will have to pay the first mortgage payment or that 50,000 will foreclose on you. You know that.

>> Yeah. In which case, if I really needed to, I can call my dad and he'll pay the mortgage. So that I guess that's not really the issue. But he my the just I I I guess a background

is my dad's kind of like you. He hates debt. He he doesn't get any credit card.

>> Yeah. He's not real proud that you ran up $25,000 on a personal line. $25,000

on a car after he gave you a dad gum house.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I know. It's pretty stupid.

>> Yeah. And that's what he's going to say, too. Sounds like. Okay. But yeah, so

you're not going to lose the house from the foreclosure that way. Will the other people put a lean on the house and force the sale of the house? In California, it's almost impossible to do that. Okay.

They eventually would sue you, not the student loans, but the personal loan, the car repos first, then they sue you on the deficit or they sue you on the credit cards or whatever else. When they sue you, they win the lawsuit. after they win the lawsuit, they execute on the lawsuit and that's when in some states they can take a lean on your residence and a lean on your income called a garnishment.

But all of that is six or eight months from now at the earliest.

Your biggest concern is making the mortgage payment >> and your biggest concern is just getting another job and then clean up this dad gum mess when you get your new job. So you're not vulnerable like this.

Yeah. No, I know. I Yeah, I know. I made

uh some dumb decisions. So, you know.

>> Okay. >> So, about about getting the job.

>> Yeah. I My question is, and there's no question the employment market is softening. There's no question about that. I don't know your area. But what was your tech specialty?

>> Uh I'm a I'm an analyst.

>> Okay. But do you have any other tech skills? In other words, what did you do on the ladder up to becoming an analyst?

So I guess a bit of a background is I used to work like manual warehousing

jobs. Okay. And then I recently got uh

through my education and I got promoted into an analyst position. So >> other than like manual labor and analyst work, that's pretty much what I >> Okay, great. So here's here's the thing. Dave's exactly right. We want to focus on short-term then long-term. So while you're looking for long-term, meaning getting back in the tech industry, there's two strategies. If I were you, this is what I would do first. I would be absolutely beating the door down for all and any kind of contract type

opportunities. So freelance work. So what what we see in this job economy right now, this is true of tech is where you may see a slowdown in hiring of full-time positions. What they start to do is they look for contract workers, freelance.

So I would be looking for all those opportunities. Even if it's a short-term, I got a four-month deal here. I jump in and take it. All right, that's why you're looking for the long-term role.

But the second thing I would be doing is, and this is where people make a mistake, they take activity of I'm applying. I've had some interviews and gosh, the market's a little tough. All that's true, but you need to go back to the warehouse. Get back in the manual labor game because we have a $1,300 mortgage payment.

And then the rest of the four walls, right? And that's your utilities, that's the the car, the the transportation, uh groceries, all that kind of stuff. you and your wife have also got to sit down and go, do we need to press pause on law school?

in a financial problem. I wouldn't call it a crisis, but if we both go to work right now, we can cover the mortgage and

every bit of this until we get back on our feet. But I'm hearing a mentality here, which is gosh, Dave, Kim, what do I do? The market's tough and I'm I'm going to Could they take my house? That is the wrong question. The question is, how can I make the amount of money? How

can my wife and I together make the amount of money we need to make it until I get a more stable job situation? Hey, John. >> Period. >> Hey, John. >> Yep. >> Can I love you enough to be mean to you for a minute?

>> Yeah. You give me permission? You give me permission?

>> Yes. Yes, sir. >> You don't sound like a motivated person.

Uh, I guess it's just like the mixture of uh, you know, getting laid off and it >> could be. But your dad's willing to jump in, pay a house payment. Your dad gave you a house thing. Your wife's in law school.

You just don't sound like you're fired up about this. And in the world I come from, you get you get fired up about this. And yeah, you got knocked down, but they gave you a month notice and you still hadn't fixed it. And you got you got you got bills to pay, people to feed, man.

So, I want you to get wired up and fired up. Get up off your butt and go be a man. Go knock some stuff down, dude. Um, don't call your daddy up for payments.

Let's get with it.

okay? And and so I'm going to love you enough to be that mean to you. Um, I know you're knocked down. I know you're a little bit down the dumps, but hey, it's FedEx and UPS.

Go load boxes. It's Christmas time. They'll hire you today and then get up off your butt and go fix this and get you a job. making 120 and then clean up this lazy butt financial mess you made and quit doing this.

You have too good a head start. Way too good a head start. Go fix it, man.

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Josh is in Greenville, South Carolina.

Hi Josh, how are you?

>> I'm doing well, sir. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh my question today is I'm in the process of starting to track down the debts I've got floating out there. And looking on Credit Karma, I have figured out that in the grand scheme of things, I really don't have that much debt. It's only about $5,200.

Um, but it's split between three

different collection agencies. So, today I decided to try to call and negotiate those down to try to get those dropped down to where I say, "Hey, I've got this much money. Can we close this out to where I owe you guys no more money and send me a piece of paper before I send any payment?" And what I figured out today is those guys are not very nice.

And my question to you is, how do I need

to word the negotiation process to

really better my chances to get it to where I can lower this down and get this debt closed out? >> Yeah. So, what caused you to be in collections?

>> Oh, whole

lifetime of bad choices. um went from I

was in the military for 4 years and in the process of that I I got married uh

acrewed some debt by some bad choices.

Uh a lot of that has actually gone away

just with time. >> What's happened that's caused you to uh decide to step forward and clean this up?

>> I am wanting to wipe the slate clean, start over and get a fresh start. My parents have followed your plan and have

themselves gotten debtree and it is

>> I am 29 about to be 30.

>> Thank you for your service to your country, sir. >> Glad to do it, sir. >> So, um All right. Do you know the uh So,

the 5200 is three. Give me an example of one of the three.

>> The largest of which would be $2700 and

worth 27.48. So, 278. Is that the

current balance or the original balance?

>> I believe that's the current balance. Uh it's just what it shows on Credit Karma when I pull up the app and look at it.

>> All right. So, did you call and talk to them and did you try to give them $2,748?

>> Uh I called one of the smaller ones.

Okay. >> Um there was one that was $218. I called

them >> and I essentially said, "I have $1,000 I

can pay you today." >> Mhm. if you send me a piece of paper

that or email, mail, some form of document that said this that this account is closed >> and I owe you no more money, >> right? >> And what when I when I brought that up

after finally getting through um to somebody, he >> essentially told me that that's not how that works. >> It is how it works. And what happens next is if you don't agree to this, I'm going to hang up on you and I'm going to call the next one and give him the $1,000 because you're too stupid to take it. This is how you talk about. >> That is exactly how I worded it, too.

And I said, "Well, I have somebody else on my list. If you don't want to take my money, I'll call my next person." >> Yeah. And then just do that three times a day until you get through to somebody that has two brain cells. Cuz what happens with these people that are uh credit card collectors and old debt collectors in these situations, they're national companies.

They're sitting in cubicles, 150 people in an office or they're working from home, one of the two. And there's, you know, fluorescent lights overhead.

>> And uh it's a horrible job. And they have figured out that if they can elicit

emotion from you, get you angry or afraid that your thinking centers of the brain don't operate anymore. you move to the frontal lobe into the lizard brain,

which is fight or flight. And if they can get you where you're not thinking, you will not think and pay them.

>> Yeah. It's funny you bring that up because I actually just recently had a situation happen where I was scammed out of a large amount of money and that is exactly the strategy they used.

>> Yeah. And so fear and anger are the two

things they're trying to activate. And so if you'll just remember that the person you're talking to has an average time on the job of 21 days,

you now have more training than they do after you and I have this discussion.

They're only taught to do one thing.

Piss the guy off and you'll get money from him.

>> And so anything they do, they make up all kinds of stuff. They'll call your wife names. They'll call your dog names.

They'll talk about your mama. I mean, it's it's on and on and on. It's just it's a game. It's a psychological game.

And just go. So, I'm going to return to short, quick sentences that are very calm. It's like, hey, I understand that this is your job and you're trying to this technique, but here's the deal. It doesn't change the fact I got $1,000 and it doesn't change the fact I'm getting ready to hang up and call the next guy.

So, do you want to talk about this or not? Yes or no? And if you say anything other than yes, I'm going to push end on

my phone and this conversation's over.

You ready? Here's your opportunity. say yes and when they go b just hit hang up.

>> Okay. And then just move on. And you may have to call five or six times to each one of them to get it figured out. But you're exactly right. Do not give them electronic access to your checking account. They lie. They'll clean you out. Uh only wire them money or send

them a prepaid debit card with the exact amount on it and that's all that's ever going to be on that card and it's done.

Something like that. And you must have it in writing because they lie. You can tell they're lying if their mouth is moving before you do it. Now, if you

have $5,200, life's going to be a lot

easier if you just get it in writing that this is the actual amount and then I will send you the money. Okay? But if you want to try to settle it for 50 cents on the dollar like you're doing because you don't have the money because you got scammed, um then that's how you're going to do it. But you've just got to remember this is a an industry that is based on very primitive juvenile

techniques and they they have zero ethics at all

and so you you people call making the mistake of thinking I'm talking to a normal human being and this is not a normal conversation like if you owed me money or I owed you money Josh I mean we would talk and we would try to be somewhat reasonable. We might be angry or we might but we're still going to try to keep a connection and but that that that has nothing to do with what you're doing here. You're just jumping into a barrel of piranha and trying to get out with your skin on. That's all you're doing.

>> I love that you lay that out for folks because I'd love for you to weigh in on this. They have to know that they're not going to get most of that money. So, they only have those techniques.

what Dave just taught you, uh, Dave, they they will settle that. They're just thrilled to get a,000 bucks. Truth be known. Is that fair? >> Yeah. Most of the time. Yeah. Because they they know they they've done the numbers. It's a game. >> Yeah. They get And if it is a um someone calling you, it could be a debt buyer

and you can buy old bad debt. Mhm.

>> People buy blocks of it and then try to collect it, right? You can buy that for about a nickel on the dollar.

>> Wow. >> So, I mean, you were here a few years ago. I remember that. We bought $10 million 8,000 accounts. $10 million worth of debt for $259,000.

>> And then that was our Christmas part of our Christmas around here. Uh 8,000 accounts. We had a,000 people. Each person got to call eight people and say, "In Jesus' name, your debt is forgiven." And that's merry Christmas. And we're going to send you an email telling you that. And so for 259,000 we got rid of $10 million worth of debt. That was two and a half cents on the dollar. >> Crazy. >> So, but we got a bargain on it because they knew what we were doing. They knew we were just forgiving it.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did.

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Pre-order today at ramseysolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Daniel is with us in New York. Hi, Daniel. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing all right, Dave. How about you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh, so I'm 29 and I'm planning on going

back to school to become a radological technician or a X-ray tech and I'm

trying to figure out whether or not I should keep investing or if I should stop investing to pay for school as I go. >> Um, how much is school?

>> So, they charge 800 a credit and it's for an associates degree. So, it's going to be $48,000. Uh that's not including

fees, textbooks, and travel because I have to travel uh once a semester as well. And I'll be doing clinicals uh depending on the site.

>> So do you know the all-in number from >> So what's the number? >> I do not know the all-in number. Rough guess is 60,000.

>> Sounds right. What do you make now?

>> Right now I make 58,000.

>> So how long is it going to take you to save 60,000?

Um, I'm actually pretty close to that because I was supposed to be getting married next year. Unfortunately, things didn't work out. So, I have $54,000 in the bank right now. >> Oh, okay. Is this a full Is it full-time

school? >> Yes, it'd be full-time. Um, it'd be full-time. >> How are you paying for food while you're in school?

>> So, I'm still at home with my family because I was figuring stuff out for a while and my act of the time we're going to move out. So, I'm still mom and dad at the time. >> How old are you?

>> 29. >> Okay. You said that. I'm sorry. H how h why X-ray tech? Why? How'd you pick this? >> Uh so I work as a security guard in a medical facility and one of our departments is imaging and this seems like it's I've always been interested in

capturing like images and stuff and working with photography.

>> I never really got around to it though.

I was always interested but never really applied myself because I was too lazy and then I decided to make a major

change and trying to start pushing my life forward and make big changes and I think this is the right one. >> Yeah. How long does it take to get through the school?

>> Uh the school is online.

>> How long does it take to get through the school?

>> What do you mean to get to the school? >> Same question. How long How long is it going to take you to graduate?

>> Oh, two years. I'm sorry. I thought you said to get to the school. It'll take me two years to graduate. >> So, you can't do any kind of work while doing this program for two years.

>> No, I'll be working full-time. I'll be working full-time as my security guard.

I work from 6:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. And then I finish my shift at I finish at 2 and then I'll be work I'll be going to class from 5:00 p.m. to 10 p.m.

>> Fantastic. I don't see why you need to stop investing. What is your Do you have any debt?

>> I have no debt. Well, >> what does your current investing program look like? what are you doing?

>> So, I was investing 6% into my company

401k. They matched back and put 2% and then at the end of the year they put 5.5. So, at the end of the year they match 7.5% and then I was investing into a >> If you if you keep investing, you don't have any overhead to live and you're earning money. You would have the money to get through school with the 54,000 if if you keep investing. So, it's not really an eitheror, is it?

No, it's not. >> Okay. So, let's start school today and let's keep investing and keep working.

Ready, set, go. >> Yeah, I'm already enrolled. I should be

starting January 5th. I'm just waiting on a uh >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, the only question we had then is do you stop investing? No, I don't think you have to because you got 54,000 in a full-time job.

>> Mhm.

>> So, you'll have the money. It the investing won't keep you from completing school. mathematically.

>> No. >> Okay. It will not. >> Then keep investing. Yeah. Absolutely.

That's easy. That's easy. Okay. Took a minute to get through your whole story, but yeah, that's good. I like it. Very good. Proud of you, man. >> Go get it. He's got a plan. He's executing a plan. How cool is that?

>> It is cool. I loved his answer. Quick little lesson for people. Here's a guy that he's trying to figure out what he's doing. He called himself lazy. A lot of self-awareness there. And he's security guard in a facility that has a craft

that he's intrigued by. He clearly does his homework and he goes, "I've always been interested in capturing images." He never probably thought of being an X-ray tech, but now this is what I would call a new trade and this this is a very very

essential, if you remember that stupid word that was thrown around during CO.

This is a good trade to pick up. He's got some opportunities, Dave, to branch off of that. So, this is a great move here. >> It's a good first step in his medical career. >> That is correct. >> Yeah. It's not the end. No, a good first step. puts him on a good ladder. >> Yeah. But also, he's your book, The Proximity Principle, he's in proximity.

>> That's right. Very slow. >> With something that he ends up doing.

Exactly. >> Although it had nothing to do with what he was actually hired to do. >> That's right. There's a good chance, by the way, that when he finishes the program, he he comes back into that same building.

He just changes out the work clothes. >> And I love that, you know, >> you know, I wonder if they would pay for it. >> It's very possible. It depends on the demand.

Do they need people? And this is key. Great question, Dave. Because here's the thing.

In that case, Dave, you would you would see a lot of companies go, we like you, we'll invest in you. The deal is you got to come work for us. It's >> already working for them. >> He's already in the building.

So it's an employee benefit to pay for continuing ed to work for us in a different department like you said change clothes >> and the correlation by the way Dave is always is there a higher demand from employers they need people >> they usually do especially in the medical field Jeff's in Springfield. Hey Jeff how are you >> fine I hope you're doing well >> better than we deserve.

>> Well uh I'm a 68-year-old uh semi-retired guy. um that my wife passed

away uh four years ago unexpectedly.

>> Life goes on. I call it Jeff 2.0.

>> Mhm. >> Um and uh I'm retired. I I've got a

great pension. I get about $80,000 a year in my pension. >> Mh. >> And I have about uh $80,000 in

investments, including 401ks, and my house is paid for. Uh and I make

>> I just looked up at my clock and I'm running short on time. What's your question?

>> Uh I recently found recon reconnected uh

with a prof health help uh with a uh old girlfriend and uh the problem we're talking about getting married. The problem is she's a health professional got $100,000 in student loan debt uh and

some other bills and I said my house is paid for. I'm pretty much debtree. If we go any further in the relationship should I get a free up and things like that before, you know? No, y'all just work on getting that debt paid off.

>> You got 80 coming in. She's got money coming in. Y'all reach over and get that debt paid off. You know, you don't want to live. Listen, if you're 68 and you live to 88, that's the next 20 years a student loan hanging over your head.

>> Nah. If you're going to get married, clean it up. >> Yeah. You It's not 800,000. It's just a handful of money. You can do this. You can do this. No, we don't need a prenup for something that small. If you got, you know, if it's if you got $8 million or something, you may want a prenup. but you don't. So, um, no, I I I think you

guys talk about it a lot about what you're going to do. Maybe even get some pre-marriage counseling, which sounds a little weird when you're 68, but do it anyway. And uh, yeah, and get on the

same page. Be aligned about what the plan is and what the expectations are, but I'd be combining everything. If you're going to combine your life, combine your life. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

Barbara's with us in Wyoming. Hey, Barbara. How are you?

>> I'm good, thank you.

>> Good. How can I help?

>> Um, so I'm retired. I'm 66 years old. I

have a federal pension and social security a little bit more than $60,000.

I I'm on baby step two. The last two debts I have are federal taxes and state

of New York taxes.

I've been working with a national tax preparation organization to to settle these debts. they I've

already paid for um for paying the negotiating on your

behalf for the federal debt is part of

the whole package. But when it comes to state taxes, there's an extra charge. So

my total debt to the state of New York is about $30,000.

And that's with all the penalties and interest and everything.

um they want they're they want to charge me $6,500 to represent them rep to represent me to

the state of New York and they don't want to give me any any information as

to pass success um ratios. I've been trying to f get some information to help with this decision and they've been stonewalling me. So I'm I don't really know what to do at this point. >> You're very wise.

Well, thank you. >> Yeah, you smell a rat, don't you?

>> I do. They've done everything they were supposed to do.

>> Federal is not settled, is it?

>> Uh, no. No, >> not settled.

>> So, they haven't done everything they're supposed to do.

>> Well, they they've actually figured all the taxes. They've done all the taxes.

>> Oh, that was hard. Any tax prep idiot can do that. Well, it it was complicated. I've done >> Okay. So, they figured out all the taxes. That's great. But they they have not negotiated your federal tax liability down at all.

>> No, not yet. Not yet.

>> That's next up. >> Yeah. So, after you do that successfully, I'll think about the other.

Well, except that I just so I left New

York a couple years ago, so there's no more debt stacking up to New York

>> and and and so I just gave them all the

paperwork to do the federal taxes. So, we're not to the point of negotiating with on federal taxes.

>> Okay. Well, I'm just going to wait until the federal taxes. Listen, this I would not do it. They're not going to successfully do this.

The vast majority of the tax settlement companies collect five to $15,000 and don't do anything. They don't have the ability to do anything. On the federal level, there's only one way that your federal income taxes are reduced and it's called an OIC, an offer in compromise, and they have to prove that you are completely broke and impoverished in order to get that through. I've seen a handful of those go through in 30 years, and I've seen thousands attempted.

the federal level. I've never tried it with New York, but, um, they're very, very difficult to do at the federal level. And these companies are on cable TV. Uh, former IRS agents, work for us

and give us $10,000 and we'll settle your debt. Don't bother us unless you've got at least $50,000 in debt. And, you know, and it's a bunch of crap, okay?

Because it just can't do it most of the time. I am very suspicious that this is exactly the same thing.

>> Oh, okay. Well, they seem pretty confident that they can do it, >> but you don't. >> Um, >> because they're stonewalling you. You know why they're stonewalling you and won't give you any answers is because they don't have any.

>> If they told you the actual percentage success that they had, you would laugh at them.

>> Well, they said they saved people a billion dollars, but they don't tell me how many people.

>> I don't know what people and all that.

>> You keep making your own case. We don't even have to answer this call if you just listen to that last sentence you said. >> You you keep making a fabulous case as to why you shouldn't do this. Let me let me share something with you. These agencies have no more pull with the IRS or the New York federal of the New York state government than you do.

>> You I'm just telling you, good luck. Try calling the IRS today. >> I don't know what New York's rules are.

I do know what the federal rules are on settling debt. Okay? Uh, but if you want to find out, just go on ramiesolutions.com for free and click on

our tax prep folks in New York and

contact them and ask them if they can negotiate a $30,000 income tax bill that is delinquent, including penalties in New York, and ask them if they can do it or if they know someone that can and what they would charge. And put that piece of data beside the piece of data that you've got. and you'll probably have a bit of a chuckle. >> My guess is Dave, and I'm not suggesting she do this, but I Barbara, I would relax on the New York thing. The chances of them >> Oh, no. They they'll hunt her down.

>> They may. >> It's New York. They'll hunt her down.

>> I don't know. You have way more confidence. >> She's Well, I mean, she's in Wyoming. She's hard to find, but they'll hunt her down. But yeah, the uh um eventually I I wanted her to deal with it, but I'm not I'm not panicked about it. 100% chance I'm not >> going to pay $6,500 to whoever this mystery company that has saved billions of lives and fed starving children in Africa and all the other bull crap.

Yeah, just bull crap. All right. All right. Up next is Bee in Phoenix. Hey bee, what's up?

>> Hi. Um hi Dave Ramsey. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yes. So I just recently bought a house in Phoenix, which I'm really proud of.

>> Good. Um, however, my family's not very happy for me, but that's a different scenario. My um

um my dad is in debt. Uh he's thinking

about declaring a second bankruptcy.

>> Mhm. >> My family is asking me to possibly have

him move in with me because um he's he's

pretty much borderline homeless.

>> And you don't want to. Why didn't he move in with your son?

Oh, he doesn't have uh I'm I'm the only I'm the only um girl. The only >> No, I'm sorry. Who Who was suggesting that he move in with you?

>> Oh, my aunts. >> Oh, well tell them to move. Let him move in with them.

>> Um they're making it my responsibility.

>> No, it's not your responsibility. It's their responsibility. It was their idea.

>> You thought of it, you do it.

Well, sign other people up for your charity work.

>> Yeah. Yeah, the thing is they don't have a house of their own. I um I I stayed I

pretty much >> they have a rental and it's got a floor in the living room.

>> That's where dad sleeps. It's their brother.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. They should take care of their brother instead of trying to get somebody else to do it. You don't want to do this. That's why you called. I'm giving you permission to not do this.

>> Okay. >> Matter of fact, I'm telling you not to do this. Why is Why Why are people mad you bought a house?

Oh, my one of my aunts, she guilt me.

Said she wanted to combine finances with me. And >> And this is the one that wants you to let dad move in.

>> Yes. >> This woman has a lot of opinions about other people's stuff.

>> Yeah. She's a good person to love from a distance. >> Further distance than you've been loving her from. >> I don't know why you give all these ants all this power. >> Yeah. I just go, you know, God, it's like an ant hill. Oh my god. They're

running around everywhere getting bit by ants. It's awful. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Now

you need a little more distance between you and crazy ants and tell the ants to let their your your dad go over there cuz you can't do it right now. It's not up. It doesn't work for you right now.

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>> Today's question comes from Gabriella in California. We didn't hear about the Ramsay show until after we purchased our first home. We went with a 30-year fixed rate mortgage and a payment that's over 25% of our monthly pay. Should we pause

investing and put that extra money on our mortgage so we can refinance to a 15-year fixed mortgage and lower our payment to the recommended amount?

No.

No. I wouldn't go through all that. What I would do is just make sure you're managing your budget really, really carefully and begin to reduce your mortgage in your baby step six. So if you're out of debt, you have your emergency fund in place.

You're working four, five, and six together. Four is 15% of your income going into retirement. Five is kids college, and six is reduce your mortgage until it's paid off.

a 10year or a 15. But that's years from

now after you get it reduced. In the meantime, know that your mortgage is too high. And so, resist this justification.

My budget's tight, so I have to take out a car payment. Don't go back in debt.

Don't don't you know, don't say don't blame your house because you made the decision. If you cannot exist without

taking out debt for other purchases because your house payment's too big, then you need to sell the house and move down. But I don't think that's the case here. I think you can work through this.

I wouldn't have signed you up for it as you know, but I think you can work through this and get there. I think it's possible. >> Yeah. There's no mention in this of other debt, but if there is, obviously you're going to work our baby steps and you're going to reduce expenses in other areas of your life.

And look, if you got to get a better job or work an extra job for a while, uh you have to get you have to make the margin that you've already eaten up. >> Exactly. You got to make sure you cover it. You can't let this bite you at the end of the day.

Hey, Jeremy. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. Um, well, I guess that's the whole truth. Sorry, I wouldn't be calling you. Um,

so anyway, uh, may God continue to bless

you. I really appreciate what you're doing for people. Thank you. >> It's very challenging to find, uh, a solid source of help. I have been struggling and dancing with bankruptcy for essentially seven years.

>> Wow. >> Uh, everything everything started I'm not in it. Um I started the process uh

post divorce but the at the advice of the attorney he's like well wait till this happens now wait till this happens and essentially got in a position where I borrow money from family and I was able to run them through the ringer >> uh to go through a chapter uh 13 bankruptcy. Uh try to make this as quick as I can as your your call screener uh requested. Um I'm essentially $120,000

in debt. uh $20,000 out of a as a car

loan at a very high interest rate because of my credit score. Uh there's roughly $4,000 in back taxes from 2021.

Um a $13,000 parent plus loan that I owe money on. Um and the rest is unsecured debt that I've accumulated either from from back uh in

the divorce or over the the years of having three kids.

>> How much of this is family? How much do you owe your family?

I don't owe my family anymore. I thought you said that. >> So, what's the unsecured debt for 90,000 bucks? What is it? Credit cards.

>> Mostly credit cards and some loans. Uh

>> yeah. What do you make trying to get through? >> Uh my current salary now is 141,000.

That's good. Um my my get that my I am

currently being garnished for 100,000 from one credit card company and my spousal support my child support has had expired uh just last year and then the

garishments came in and my spousal support's roughly $1,200. Um, aside from

other bills that, um, I have, uh, I am

before anything, I'm bringing home roughly at 5,000 a month.

>> Um, and I started down back down the track on on bankruptcy again, but again, I'm I'm not a year a year out from having my family being uh pulled into

that, and I don't want to do that to them. >> Preferial treating. I am. Okay. So, the uh, let me ask you, you said $100,000 worth of garnishment. What are you talking about?

Oh, no, no, no. Not $100,000 worth of garnishment. I'm saying $1,000 a month.

>> Oh, $1,000 a month in garnish.

>> Okay. So, you make 140. Oh, >> and they're taking out a,000 for that.

And they're taking out how much for child support? $1,200.

>> Uh, spousal support 12 1280.

>> Okay. So, that's $2,200. Uh, that's that that's less than 30,000 out of the 140.

So, that leaves you 90 not counting taxes. How big is your tax refund?

Oh, I don't get I don't usually get any.

>> Good. Okay. And then so how much do you have coming out for uh 401k?

>> Uh that is I'm maxing out at 6%.

>> Yeah. Okay. All right. So here's what I'm going to do. J you're making a lot of money. It's just going back out the door. What do you think you're spending it on?

>> All these payments you got. Oh, this car payment's outrageous. It's 1,500, isn't it?

Uh my my car payment is uh $438 a month,

but it's a very long loan at a 13% interest rate. >> Okay. >> Uh one of the other things that's that's in the mix here is uh I do have I am

one-third owner of my mother's home um

from when she passed. And there's currently no settlement with my brothers and I on uh uh liquidating at least my

my share of >> But you're not paying anything on that?

>> No, I'm not paying anything on that.

>> You just you might get some money out of it someday. Okay. All right. So, here's

what I'm doing. I'm still not finding 140,000. So, I temporarily would stop your 401k. I'm going to put you on a beans and rice budget. You don't eat out anymore. You don't go on vacation anymore. and you're going to make every dollar behave. But because 140 minus

2,200 minus 500 for a car payment, you still got a lot of money that is unexplained here. And I want you to go find it. I'm going to give you the every dollar premium budget which is going to guide you through this whole process.

But more than anything, Jeremy, you got to make every single dollar behave before the month begins and then execute on that with deathly efficiency.

And um you know, you've kind of been it feels like you've kind of been wallowing around in this for so long that you've kind of lost your footing and lost you can't get a handhold. You can't get a foothold. And so I want you to just back up three steps, take a deep breath, and dive into cold water and go, "Okay, fresh start.

Clean eyes, clear eyes, fresh start. Now

look at the math only. Where the flip is

$140,000 going?" because you sure hadn't explained it to me in this. And I want you to go find that for your sake. You don't have to explain it to me, but you need to go find it. Cut up the stupid credit cards. Never touch one of those dad gum things again. They're destroying your life. And then let's list your debts smallest to largest and begin to attack them in that order after you start paying minimum payments. But you can stop the 401k. You can put the parent plus loan on temporary hardship.

Um, and then you could turn around and start attacking these other debts that you are paying monthly on. Get them cleared up and then come back to the parent plus loan and clean it up later.

All of these things are getable. They're very doable. And whatever that one that's got the garnishment on, get that thing get it done. Get it knocked out.

And uh, man, I I would just pump I I'd pop it that way as hard as I could hit it. Um, but the math here says you've got great hope. Your voice does not say that.

Yeah, I I I would recommend that you even get a second job. Target 30 to $50,000. What would it take? How could you make an additional 30 to 50?

Now, you got good income, but I think you need some intensity right now. We've heard enough debtree screams that when we hear these people say, "We worked every second that we could and we made so much money." I think right now you need a jump start of intensity and I would have looked to sell this car. This $20,000 car has got a $400 plus payment to it. Um, you need to go all in, scorched earth, more income, and beans and rice.

That thing needs to be paid off in the next 12 months or you need to sell it. >> Y, >> you need to get get fired up here.

you clean up those credit cards, you clean up that car loan, you start cleaning up a bunch of and all you've got left unsecured. You can start plowing through this stuff like a snowplow, baby. You can start knocking them down just like dominoes. It'll happen. We've seen people do it all the time. Hang on. and we'll sign you up as our gift to the expanded version, the

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Megan is with us in St. Louis. Hey, Megan. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, I'm uh fair to Midland today.

How are you doing? >> About the same other than I'm better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, I need help understanding or

framing out how do I tell my mom I am

starting to resent her after some financial choices that she's made?

>> Okay. H how old is your mom?

>> She's 60. >> And how old are you?

>> 32. Okay. So, why does it affect you?

>> So, she has been a successful

uh medical professional in the physical therapy practice world. She had three clinics >> and was a single mom >> and supported me and my sister for the majority of our life.

>> And as an adult, we had mutual respect

for our business decisions.

And 5 years ago, she um sold her clinics

or her interest in them and her home to move in with her long-term fiance.

And she took those proceedings and made his dream happen uh of opening up a diner. And they did that at a somewhat

opportune time where other diners were liquidating their equipment. They were able to purchase that and it's been very successful over the last five years.

However, as the diner got stronger, their relationship got weaker and they

broke off the engagement and she moved out earlier this year.

He then bought out her interest in the diner uh but not directly, not in one lump sum. He is paying in monthly installments and her investment there was about uh half of her profits from the sale of the business in the home. And at this point, it's going to take another 15 years to recoup that. So, it's coming.

>> How does this affect you?

>> Well, we've been in a family dynamic where we go on vacations together. Um, we plan holidays together and she's made promises to me and my sister about being

included on a home purchase and planning a wedding and I'm seem to be engaged and she's promised that she'd like to be committed to that. And now I'm having those feelings that she had the finances to make her fiance's dreams come true, but now um where is that money for our

dreams? Um when when uh you know she's

saying that the money just isn't there.

Yeah. >> So >> you're not going to like me.

>> That's okay. If I need a kick in the pants, go for it. And >> I'm going to tell you right now, I already second whatever his motion is about to be. >> You're you're 32 years old.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> You You sound like an 18-year-old whining that your mommy didn't give you something. Your mom's a single mom, grew something from nothing, screwed up with a bad choice in men again,

and lost her money, and you're whining

about your wedding. You're 32. Go pay for your wedding and love your mother.

>> Sure. Absolutely.

>> Yeah. just I mean I I she she's a

warrior princess. She raised you girls from nothing. She had nothing and she built this thing out of out of the dirt with her hands >> and then she lost it. You should be heartbroken for her. Mad at the twerp with the diner. Not worried about yourself.

>> I have been. I have been. And I I um

>> But you've been mad at him because he got your money's the way you're acting.

Um, yeah, we've we've been on vacations where I've, you know, covered the bill I treated for her 60th birthday trip earlier this year. And yeah, >> um, >> well, if you don't want to do that, that's fine. Or if you can't do that cuz you're saving for your own wedding, that's okay cuz she made these choices.

You don't have to cover her travel bill.

But on the other hand, I I don't think she, you know, she's not obligated to pay for a 32 year old woman's wedding as a single mom who lost her money to a bad

relationship.

>> Yeah, I think that's where I have to identify where those feelings came from.

>> Yeah. I I I think I think if I were you, I would parse out the two things. Number one is what are you required to do for

her? Nothing. She She'll make it. she's

okay and you know, let her go. Let her release her on what she was thinking she

was going to be able to do for you, but now has messed up and is not able to.

And so, um, yeah, any expectation

that she gives you money should turn and

not be there anymore and turn into gratitude for what she's already done for you. >> Yeah. And on the question, the way you worded it, how do I tell my mom I resent

her? that implies that you haven't said anything yet. I think it's okay to communicate two emotions that I heard that you're that you're mad and that you're sad. And I think as an adult, you honor your mother, but you can have an honest conversation. I think it's probably important for you to get that off your chest, but in a way that is respectful and honoring and then move on. But you got to acknowledge that you're mad and you're sad. Uh but >> mainly though, sad for her.

>> Yeah. >> Not mad because I didn't get something.

Well, it's okay for her to say, "I'm mad that she made this promise and she can't keep it, but we got to move on." You know what I mean? Like, it's like 30 seconds. >> That's what I'm saying. But go ahead and deal with it because she's misplacing the way the question is framed.

I'm misplacing my emotions toward all towards my mom and and I just think that that's unhealthy. This is a lady who did well for you. So, if you want on vacation, you set the terms in your mind, you and your sis, and you go, "This is what we're going to do for our mom and we're not going to resent her. We're not going to be gripy about it." and you just move on >> or we don't do it.

>> You don't do it at all. Don't have her on vacation. >> I don't, you know, I'm not able to do this right now because I'm saving for my own wedding. And that that's a perfectly reasonable.

>> Uh she did make her own bed in that sense. >> Yeah.

Yeah, mainly I'm going to be sad for her and deciding how much I'm willing to do to help her. My concern for myself needs to be close to zero in this. You're too old for that. >> That's exactly right. >> That's my point. >> Yeah, I agree with you. Move on.

>> That's Wow. Just move on with it. And um

it's um >> And here's the thing. I I think Dr. John were here. He would say you're probably playing these tapes over and over like 42 times in your head every day. Yeah.

It'll be really good to get the tapes out of your head and just let them let them go somewhere else. Just let them let them go off into the sunset >> and just then just smile and go, "Mom messed up." And you know, she did good for a while and then she messed up and that's just mom. Yeah. You know, that's right.

Well, to your point, you can't be full of gratitude and full of anger at the same time. So, let's just be an adult and let's focus on what we're grateful for. This woman did a lot for you. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> Against the odds, by the way. Single mom, three clinics.

doofus. >> She just doesn't pick men. Well, >> fair. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. But yeah.

>> All right. Cynthia is in Toronto. Hey, Cynthia. How are you?

>> Hi. I'm doing good. I'm honored to talk to you both today. >> You, too. How can I help?

>> Okay, so this is probably a silly question based on um a few callers back, but I'm a new listener and I thought I would still ask. Um so what does Gazelle

intensity look like in Baby Step 2 when it comes to syncing funds? For example, I want to put $150 a month each to my car fund for repairs, a pet fund for like an older dog, and vacation and gift funds. not to actually take a vacation, but say, you know, um if we go on a camping trip or something like that with a big family, it would equal to $600 a month or $7,200 a year and it would be about 1,800 per category. Um so, I just want to know what you guys think about that.

>> Okay.

you know, we're gazelle intense baby step two, working the debt snowball. So, the sinking funds would reflect that.

We're not going on vacation, period. Not spend $7,000 a year on vacations. Not while we're in baby step two. No. Uh, yes, we've got to keep our car repaired.

So, yes, you need to have a monthly account, monthly line item in your budget that can build up. And yes, that can be called a syncing fund for car repairs cuz you do have to do car repairs while you're in there. And uh if you have a dog that you're fairly sure is going to have some issues, then yeah, that's an ongoing budgeting item that's going to happen and you're going to deal with it no matter how intense you are.

Uh you're going to deal with the dog situation. So you need something there.

But that's not $15,000 for a pet in the middle of this. This is, you know, it's a few hundred here or there for some vet bills. And so anything like that. If you know your tires need to be replaced, that's part of your car repair, right?

But car replacement, no, we don't need to worry about car replacement right now. We're getting out of debt. We'll worry about that after we get out of baby step three. And so only the things that are necessary to operate the house bare minimum that fall into sinking.

Those are the only syncing funds we fund at that point.

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Brian's in Wisconsin. Hey, Brian. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How are you two today? >> Just the same. How can I help?

>> First caller, longtime listener. Uh my

wife and I are on baby step six. We make about 425,000 a year.

>> Mhm. >> With the bulk of that coming from my employment. >> I work as a software engineer with consulting work on the side.

>> Mhm. >> We have a high savings rate, just over 200,000 a year. >> Wow. >> But my work my work life balance, it sucks. Non-existent.

>> And it's taken a toll on my mental and

physical health.

>> Um I'm doing this because my wife and I, we plan to have kids soon. no kids right now. >> And I'm also worried that my skills might be obsolete in the next 3 to 5 years due to the advancements in artificial intelligence. >> Mh. >> So my question is um is it possible to sort of be too focused on savings and sort of delayed gratification and should I shift my focus to maintaining my health and a decent work life balance even with the uncertainty of the future job market?

>> Well, you already know that you should do that.

>> Okay. you know that and the way you phrase the question tells me that you know that um you just wanted someone to agree with you and yes I think you're very wise to observe to that. Um so here

here's what's happening. Um you are um

uh we always talk about in every marriage there's typically a nerd and a free spirit. I'm the nerd at my house, the detail person. My wife is the free spirit. My daughter Rachel is the free spirit. Her husband Winston is the nerd.

You're definitely the nerd at your house. And it shows up not only in your career field, but in your approach to this entire phone call even. Okay. So, you're very detailed, very focused person. You like systems, you work systems. It's made you a good living by the way, which is wonderful. Okay. And and but you've gotten completely over the edge into that world and you've lost all the other beautiful parts of life for focusing only on the ones and zeros.

And so, um, you're exactly right. You've you you're very self-aware. You're very wise to say, "I need to back up. I need

some art and some science in my life,

not just science. And art is the romance of my wife, the beauty of some children that need to be on the way this week.

Come on, dude. Get some kids." And you know, it's the best thing ever happened to you. And um and no, by the way, you're not going to be unemployed because of AI. You're going to be the guy that tells AI what to do.

Now, if you're writing lines of code, yeah, you may be not writing lines of code anymore in four or five years. I don't doubt that. I got a feeling AI is going to be writing most of our code, and I'm fine with that. But somebody's got to tell the stupid thing how to do it because it's artificial intelligence, by the way, like artificial sweetener.

And so, we're using, you know, I'm not in your world except that we have a lot of digital products and a lot of digital people here. And a lot of our software engineers are convinced that they need to get above AI and boss it around as

their new job description in the future rather than do what it's trying to do right now. And that that's just my take on it as an entrepreneur. But I don't think you're going to be unemployed because I think you're already considering how you're going to pivot

>> to take advantage of the new technology instead of it taking you out.

>> Yeah. Brian, two quick questions here to focus on this balance issue. Uh, how much of the 425 is your income?

>> Uh, about 370.

>> Okay. Of the 370, you mentioned your job and then I heard consulting. So, break down the income. Your income of the 370,

how much is consulting outside of your 9-to-F5?

>> You know, it's split right down the middle. My nineto-ive is half of it and consulting is the other half. >> Okay. How many hours is the consulting

taking up in a week?

about 20 hours a week on top of my 9 to5

40 hours a week. >> All right. So, I just wanted to tactically start to break that down because Dave's right. I agree with everything he said.

So, now we need to look at, okay, uh we've been in this scarcity mindset, you know, all this savings. So, we need to dial back the 60 hours. So, if you're if you're looking at, you know, I hate to tell anybody to take a step back in income, but the reality is you need to take a step back in hours.

So, you got to adjust that. That's where we go in and we tactically make some changes. But you've been in doing I can just tell by the way you're handling this. You've been doing technology a long time. This is not your first ride.

>> Yeah. Very true. Over 10 years experience. >> Exactly. And so you've navigated changes, disruptions before. This one's a little bit more of a tsunami than a minor disruption, but um but you're going to navigate this and you're going to be fine. Um there are people that are going to be taken out by it. If you think you're going to, you know, be a Dev One coder 5 years from now, you're not. No people, those of you listening, okay? I don't think that's happening.

There's not going to be much of that happening. But, uh there's a lot of stuff we're not going to be doing. But that's okay. There's other things we can do with this technology. And the but you've got to have a brain that works the way your brain works to be able to make AI do what it's supposed to do. Um

and so a brain that works I can't make it do what you can make it do in other words. Um and because my brain is not set up that way and I don't have the knowledge base that you have. Yeah.

>> So I think I think you're going to be in a really good position. >> And that raises another question. Brian is the consulting work the exact same type of work in the nineto-5 or is it slightly different?

>> Same work um different fields. one is um law and the other one is healthcare.

>> I just wonder as a part of this transition as you begin to kind of scale back so that you can start a family, get the get the stress out of your life, I wonder if the consulting is not eventually a business where you work for yourself and you kind of make yourself even more insulated from the threat of AI. Just something to think about. I'm not putting you on the spot to answer that, but there's something to this pivot there. There's a potential I I'll say that there's a potential pivot.

you, you know, add to or full pivot. So, >> are you literally writing code right now?

>> I am working right now. Yes. But >> no, I mean, no, I mean that's not not this second. I mean, is this today your job description is you write lines of code?

>> Nope. We're telling AIS what to do, which is kind of what made me call in like, yeah, who knows what this thing's going to do in five years. >> Yeah. But I mean, today you are that's okay.

So, you're you're a senior de senior engineer. Okay, I got you. All right. Cuz you're killing it income-wise.

I'm so proud of you. Very well done. So, you're very smart. You're a planner.

You're a thinker. Uh you flowchart stuff in your brain. You can't keep from doing it, including your own life. And so, yeah.

So, that's what we're doing. We're saying we're agreeing with you. Yes, I would take a step back, not six steps back. And uh by the way, when you're at home with your family, then be at home.

including television.

>> Yes, sir. >> Just relationship. So, don't don't substitute uh Netflix binge watching for

work and call that family life balance.

It's not.

>> And sometimes we can do that, too. We just move from one of the other. Well, I was at home and she was sitting beside me. No, that doesn't count. Okay. Yeah, but you got caught up on Downtown Abbey.

I don't think that's a plan. Okay.

So, anyway, yeah, I I I think you're a great guy and I think you're going to be a great dad and a great husband and you already knew you were going to do this before you called. Um, and then the the question is, um, you know, you've got a really good nest egg already built.

You've got a the ability to earn a great income. And here's the thing I know about folks. Regardless of the field,

once you have made x number of dollars,

your brain tells you it's possible and

you will naturally gravitate back toward

x number of dollars plus.

>> That's right. >> Once you've broken the threshold, once you balanced on the bicycle the first time and your eyes light up and go, I

can actually do this. then you have a

tendency to be able to do it again rather than a tendency to end up making $25,000 a year at Walmart. >> That's right. >> It's not what you're doing. So, you're going to gravitate towards a half million dollars a year the rest of your life or more. You're just going to have to change how you do it and how you add value to the organizations in the brave

new world that we live in. But you're going to do it. I can tell you're that guy. And I employ a whole bunch of tech folks so kind of know what I'm talking about. I can tell when somebody's got that thing, that swagger that allows them to do it, and I think you do. I think you're going to be great at it. So, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Good question. Very good discussion. Thanks for calling in.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

Nazareth is with us in Houston. Hey, Nazareth. How are you?

>> Hey Dave. Hey, Ken. It's a honor to

speak with you guys. >> You too, sir. How can we help?

>> Well, um I wish I was calling to talk

about my own more of my own financial

situation. Um, you know, because I'm doing the baby steps, getting out of debt right now. Um, which is a lot of

what I've heard you call the stupid tax because I've I'm 28 and I've made a lot of mistakes, a lot of mistakes over over the years. But, um, I guess one of them

is, um, led me to moving back in with my parents, with my daughter who's now four

years old. And anyways, I've been here and when I first moved back in, like I was still like being pretty irresponsible, like just kind of floating through life. And I've really gotten my act together these past few months. And crazy things have happened to where my mom left my dad about two months ago and

I took over all the bills and all that. But now, um, I'm looking at my father basically owing about $10,000 on property taxes, and if it's not paid

within a month, um, the house is going to go to auction. So, I'm just juggling a lot right now. And it occurred to me, okay, well, maybe I can call the Ramsy Show and I got a hold of you guys.

>> Wow.

So your parents' finances are a mess and you have taken over them with two whole months of experience controlling yours.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. What do you make a year?

>> Uh right now before taxes I'm bringing

in about 3,600 a month. Sometimes a little bit more, sometimes a little less, but right around. >> Okay. And what does your mom make?

Uh, well, my mom, uh, she doesn't live

here anymore. She actually moved to another state. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Your dad lives there?

>> Yes, sir. >> Oh, and what does he make?

>> Uh, it varies, but I'd say on a on a

good month, he's making about 3 to 4,000.

>> And why have they not paid their taxes?

It was just um a lot of infidelity

throughout their marriage, you know, on

all levels, including financial, just never being on the same page about things. >> Mhm. So, they don't have any money. I guess you wouldn't have called me. You would have just paid the taxes. Yeah.

Okay. >> Yeah. Well, um my father, he he has about 2,000 in his savings account,

>> give or take. And um

yeah, but my mom definitely uh no

savings like that. And >> Mhm. And you're in touch with her. You have the ability to get in touch with her? >> Yes. Yes, I do. >> Okay. All right. And what's the house worth?

>> Um I'm I'm looking at this number here.

Let's see.

Uh if I see this correctly.

Oh, wow. It says a judged value

215 uh,000.

>> Okay. What's that? What are you reading there?

>> This is the notice of sale.

>> Oh, that has anything to do with reality. What do you think the house is actually worth, dude?

>> Um,

I'm not sure. Probably at probably like around 150.

>> Okay. All right. And what is owed on it?

Uh, nothing. The house has paid off.

>> Oh, okay. All right.

Wow.

That's really sad. Um, so I I would tell

you to go to ramiesolutions.com and click on real estate

a trusted real estate agent. get one of the one of our trusted people and tell them what's going on and see if they have any knowledge of tax

uh property tax in Texas that I don't

have. There's a possibility you could apply for some kind of a thing. Take your dad's 2,000 and maybe, you know, 2,000 a month for the next four months or whatever and clear the thing, right?

There's a possibility they have some kind of a program for that. Um, or

there's a possibility they, you know, they they give you these notices and then it's a while before they actually do it. It's not really 30 days. I don't I want you to get more knowledge than just the threat in the mailbox.

And I don't know I don't I don't have the knowledge to give you >> this. Yes, sir. Well, I did I spent like

about 2 hours on the phone with uh these

tax office people and because they were

on payment plans um in the past, it's

pretty much said that house will go to auction January 6th if it's not paid in full.

>> And like I said, I wish I was calling and you don't have the money and they don't have the money. So, what's our option? There's two options. Um, neither

one are good. Uh, your dad can file a chapter 13 bankruptcy and that will stop the auction.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Um, and before I lost the house at auction, I would do that. Uh, but I I really

think that um it might be a good idea

for your dad just to sell the house.

Your dad and mom sell the house now.

Mhm.

get an investor, call one of our Ramsey trusted real estate agents and let's sell the house and pay the tax before before the auction, okay? Because they're going to lose this house and you guys don't have any money to stop them.

>> And and so, you know, you can go into chapter 13 bankruptcy, but all we're doing there is kicking the can down the road because your parents are going to screw that up.

>> I'm curious, how many years of the property taxes what's a year's worth of property taxes on this house? Do you know? Um well it's it varies but I think

it goes all the way back to 2020 about 5 years worth.

>> Right. So here here's the this is kind of an outside the ball uh outside the box idea here. But does your dad between all the stuff they have? Do they have $6,000 worth of stuff that you can sell quickly plus his two that gets you or wait. We got to get uh we got to get eight more. Sorry my math was bad for a second. 8,000. Does he have $8,000 worth of stuff?

Uh yeah, I think so. And I I I have a

>> That's the quickest turnaround on this thing. I mean, to be honest with you, if he really has $8,000 worth of stuff, and if I was >> watch his car, >> I would do that.

>> Uh no, not really through his cars, but he's got a lot of um cuz he's a a

welder. He's um Yeah, he just builds fences, so he has a lot of material,

steel here. And um >> yeah, get it sold. It's just kind Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Get us get get it sold and get the money and go pay the tax. >> That's it. >> And but your dad's going to have to get off his dad gum butt.

>> Mhm. >> Or he's going to lose his house. And it's not fair that you have to do this for him. This is supposed to be a grown man.

>> I mean, this guy's what, 60 years old?

>> Yes, sir. 62. >> Yeah. So, maybe he ought to act like it.

Hello. So, yeah. I I don't really want you fixing this for him, but I I if he's got the assets, if he got a bunch of junk around there, he can take salvage or whatever and sell it and scratch up 10 grand to go with his two or eight grand to go with his two grand, get this thing paid. That's the answer.

Um other than that, yeah, he can file bankruptcy, but it's not going to work cuz it's going to crash. He's not unless he gets if he catches it up, that's his only shot at making this work.

This time of year I get a little confused. about the terms.

It's Cyber Monday week.

How do you have a Monday week?

I'm so confused. >> How do Black Friday sales last for 10 days? This is still happening.

>> Yeah, Fridays are now 10 days and Mondays are now weeks. Okay. Well, but we're gonna join the parade. So, the deals are in full swing at Ramsey. We got hard coverver books, audio books, assessments, all with prices as low as $6.99.

Don't wait. These deals end this coming Sunday 127. Go to ramseyolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube, our podcast, click the link in the description. >> I need to make a confession, Dave. Our audience knows this. When you're not here and I read these things, I get a little upset. I wonder if you've approved these things because these are really good deals. I'm not sure I'm get making much on these books and assessments. Did you approve of these deals?

>> I had nothing to do with these deals, actually. But I >> I always do, don't I? I'm like, man, Dave is killing me on these books of mine are so cheap. >> Yeah. Prices as low as $6.99. That's hard coverver books, no less. Must be an overstock on something. That's all I'm saying. >> There it is, folks. I confessed it. I confronted it. We don't know how these deals got there. >> They're good deals, that's for sure.

Brian's in Dallas. Hey, Brian. What's up?

>> Hey, Dave. How's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Hey Dave, I'm closing on a property here

soon in the next couple weeks and uh

wanted to get your wisdom on a few things. So, first of all, uh thanks for taking my call and uh just some context

for what I who I am. I'm 27 uh making

about $100,000 a year. and um the

property that we're closing on, we have the means to put down for the down payment, which is great. Um but as I was

crunching the numbers and looking at our savings, we were thinking about possibly taking out a 401k loan or withdrawal to

help with the down payment. Now, I know I've watched some of your videos and you you've explained not to do that and and things like that. So, just calling to get your input and get wisdom on creative ways we can put for the down payment. >> You already have the down payment. Leave your 401k alone.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Keep your hands off of it.

>> Okay. >> If you can't afford the house, then tell them and see if you can get out of the house deal. But, um, don't mess with stinking 401k like you said. That's >> uh for for obvious reasons. uh the your wealth is going to come from paying your house off and from building your 401k, not from destroying it. And borrowing on your 401k is never a good idea ever.

There's no circumstance. And withdrawing on a 401k, of course, you're going to get taxes and penalties and everything else. And so, and you're not even able to withdraw a 401k while you still work there. So, um no, I would not ever use

my retirement money to buy a house ever.

Um no, wouldn't do it. And I wouldn't do it to increase your down payment when you already have your down payment. Ryan is in Indianapolis. Hey Ryan, how are you? >> Good. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh yeah, so my dad passed away a few

months ago. And uh he he's set my mom up

pretty well. Uh he's a lifetime farmer.

U built a pretty good net worth. Um very

conservative.

And um by the time he he has a trust set

up and by the time that all the ground and equipment um there's still room for about $1.5 million of cash that uh we

could put towards the trust and uh my

mom is considering disclaiming uh that

cash to go ahead and and give it to uh myself and my two brothers. And um I'm a

little concerned uh about taking taking on that much cash. Um

my my brothers went through a divorce uh in his lifetime and we want to do what

we can to protect uh what my dad's built his whole life and I'm I I want to pay

off my house and that's what my mom uh would like to see, you know, me do with the cash that she'd give me. And my suggestion was to put it in the trust, leave it there, and I take a loan uh

from the trust instead and kind of pay

back the loan instead or pay back the trust instead of the bank um to keep it

from becoming a marital asset right off

the bat. >> So the million and a half would be yours. >> Uh well, it'd be split between uh myself and my two brothers and it would Oh, >> so you would get a half a million dollars. >> Yes. So, you don't trust your wife with a half a million dollars?

>> Uh, it's not that I don't trust trust her, but um you know, we've seen what's

what money can do to to families.

>> Half million dollars is not that much money.

>> It's it's not. But, uh it can be spent

very quickly. >> Wait a sec. Wait, wait, wait. You paid off your house. How you going to spend it?

Well, well, I'm saying that, you know,

if if my um if I pay off my house, I've got more income now coming in in from my um

>> So, be on a budget with your wife.

>> That's >> what's what's wrong with your marriage, Ryan? Uh it's very hard to control financially. Um I if if we're not on a

very strict budget and and an allowance essentially um it disappears.

>> But wouldn't paying off your house make it even more stable?

>> No. More money to disappear at this point. >> Yeah. But >> yeah, because he can't get along with his wife, >> right? So >> how long have you been married?

>> Uh six years.

Okay.

All right. I would not accept the money until you get your marriage healed.

>> Your marriage is a mess.

>> That's That's what you know I

>> No, I don't want to create some kind of a faux

backflip double limited partnership trust crap so you won't deal with your wife. No, I don't want to do that. you need to deal with your wife and then get your marriage and your life straightened out and then we'll talk about properly handling wealth. But there's no there there is no legal mechanism that makes people that aren't behaving behave.

>> It it it would >> you're dreaming, Ryan.

>> You can't have your cake and eat it, too. You're going to have to deal with your home. Your home is a wreck. When

you deal with your home, then it's a safe place to bring a lousy half million dollars into. But your home isn't safe

for a half million dollars right now. So don't put a half million dollars in it in any shape or form until you get your

marriage worked on. And quit trying to dream up some side angle crap to not

have to deal with what's right in front of your dad gum nose. You've got to deal

with this. And if you don't, your marriage is going to end and there's no

all this crap is going to get drugged into a divorce court no matter how what you do. And you know, you're all your little schemes and crap aren't going to work. So, you can't control this. You've

got to heal it. There's a difference.

Now, you're going to do what you're going to do, but I would not accept the half million until you finished marriage counseling that was successful in creating a healed, grown-up relationship with my wife. You don't trust your wife.

>> That's a bad place to live, dude.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's six years and and and

to not have any kind of financial stability and trust. You could feel it all over him. So, Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I

I I like that advice. >> Yeah. You you and your mom and your brother are trying to connive something up here against your wife. This is a bad medicine. Bad juju, dude.

>> Really bad. Well, you know, he mentioned his brother's divorce, so he's feeling like snake bit, too.

>> Yeah. >> Because of his marriage. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no kidding.

>> Self-fulfilled prophecy if you're not careful. >> Yeah. But no, mama needs just, you know, the one needs a trust is your mother, maybe, but not you. Um, no, you don't

you don't need that money anywhere near your house right now because um because

you've got other issues that are much more important, much higher priority

than a lousy half million dollars or paying off your house.

Heat. Heat.

If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to work the Ramsey plan is by using Every Dollar. It's more than just our budgeting app. It's the plan built right in. You track your progress. You get a personalized recommendation and coaching for your situation. It'll help you free up more money, work the plan even faster, getting out of debt, building wealth.

It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step, and holding you accountable.

We'll tell you the truth cuz we love you. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. on the Zoom call. Coming up

now is going to be Becky and Brian. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Good day. >> Wonderful to have you guys. Where do you live?

>> Madison, Wisconsin.

>> Okay. Well, merry Christmas. I see the Christmas tree in the background. You guys got it rocking. Good work.

>> How how can we help you guys today?

>> Thanks for taking our call. Yeah, >> I'll let my wife take the question here.

>> Um, hi Dave. So, I own a small business, a medical aesthetics practice here in our hometown. Um, I'm a nurse practitioner and I've built um my business debtree. Um, I have no debt here at the business and I make pretty heavily purchases every month um that I just pay off with my debit card, you know, 10,000, sometimes upwards of $20,000 for products. Um, and so my

question is in regards to getting a business credit card and um, the

downfall of what that would be. Um, I think we kind of live in the Ramsay mindset. We're debtree. I only purchase things if I have the funds to purchase them. Um, so that is um, was my question

like what what the harm would be in getting a business credit card for points. Well, if you um

only purchase things if you have the money, then a debit card will work, right? >> Correct. >> Okay. And so your only motivation is points.

>> Well, yeah. I mean, yes. Well, I kind of I was thinking of if I have to purchase it anyway, should I be trying to get something in return because I have to to

then have additional funds?

>> Yeah. And so, is your business working?

Are you making money? Are you successful?

>> I am. >> Good. Good for you. Congratulations.

>> Well, that's where you make your money in running your business well and in being who you are and providing the service that you provide. That's where all your profit comes from. That's where your prosperity will come from is in being you. Uh I can tell you're probably really good at this. It just you can see it kind of in the camera right now. And um so I so you are the secret sauce, not

some side hustle gathering up points.

And so I've concentrated at Ramsey on helping people with their money or helping people with their leadership or the different things that we do here, not in trying to gather up something on the side. I just go do what we do with excellence. And that's where all of our prosperity has come. And uh because the points are a scam, uh 78% of them are

never redeemed.

That's crazy. Eight out of 10. And um

and and by the way, if you spend $100,000 on this and you get 1%, that's

$1,000.

So that there's no formula on planet

Earth that says spending $100,000 to get a,000 is a formula for wealth building.

That's that's that's a really really really silly trade. your your time and

your brain calories are worth a lot more than you'll be spending chasing a couple of points here or there that are $500 or $1,000 here or there that you make back.

Uh you can make that in 20 seconds doing what you do if you concentrate on that instead of the other things. But instead, they got you concentrating on their business model, which is to get you possibly into debt because one month things are a little tight, then you don't pay it off and then there you are.

That never happens with a debit card though. So, we don't have any credit cards at Ramsey and we teach entree leaders small we coach about 10,000 small businesses uh all over America to use debit cards and just don't bother with the points. Um because I'm that the

that that momentary flex where you change your brain from doing what it does so well to going over here and trying to beat up City Bank for 1%. It

the the the tradeoff is not worth it.

your your brain is worth more working on things that matter. Ken, >> yeah. Uh, one of my vices, you two, I'm

confessing this is uh late night ice cream. Uh, it's a real problem. And, uh, I'm at the stage in life where late night ice cream comes with a consequence. So, you know what I do to avoid late night ice cream? You guys want to take a guess?

>> Don't eat it. >> I don't have ice cream in my house.

>> There's no ice cream in the house now. I know. I know. What kind of a father are you? >> The kids can go get it. There's an ice cream shop in my neighborhood. But, you know, it's a simple little idea, but you get the point. And Dave's right. There is It's not just the one month it gets a

little tight and we got a little security blanket. It's also a temptation.

And if it's in the freezer, there's a good chance I'm gonna walk by and grab it and get a bowl of it. And so, you just got to be very careful with this.

Is psychology. There is psychology and money and Dave has figured it out. What what I don't think people realize sometimes is how much psychology are in the baby steps because he sat and he listened to people for years and years and years and developed something that is not just about momentum but it's also about the psychology of money and I think that we we can't forget that the points seem to be a real benefit but what it what it what it's going to do is potentially trap you just like those late night calories for me. You got my awesome you're an incredible couple.

You guys said that so much more nicely than we thought you were going to. >> Well, thank you for coming on. And hey, that was that was pretty risky. You guys took a big risk jumping on here.

So, thank you for doing that. And you know, the joke we always use is we've never met a millionaire said, "I made all my money with my points." And so, that that's what it all comes down to. So, hey, thanks for joining us. That's uh Becky and Brian.

Good job, you guys. All right. Fun. So, we've integrated a few of these Zoom calls here or there because so many of you watch on YouTube and on video on Spotify and other some of our other platforms are now carrying video as well.

So, we want to make sure we're kind of including all that in there. So, something new. I've done talk radio for 35 years and now I get to do Zoom calls. >> Well, I I will tell you selfishly, I don't know if you feel this way, but I really enjoy I've been able to do two or three of these now and I enjoy it because we can see emotion.

We can see things that sometimes we can't always hear.

But, uh, if you >> I have to be careful, though. I think I'm nicer on the Zoom calls.

>> Oh, really? >> Yeah. I think I need to I think I need to not I don't need to fall for that.

>> Something about looking at their pretty cute little faces, and I don't want to destroy them. >> Well, that boy, that is an interesting take right there. Will you be tough, Dave, looking right at somebody?

>> I gave him the right answer, but I wasn't I wasn't snarky. >> No, you were very >> I wasn't mean. >> You were very Christmassy >> sometime. I was very Christmassy. Yeah.

Santa Dave is on the video call.

>> By the way, quick question. >> I'm going to get you some ice cream, Ken Coleman, at the break. >> By the way, that was the truth. >> That is a crazy thing right there.

>> It's a truth. Well, everybody's got their advice. Whatever your food vice is, don't >> you know, one of our one of our senior leaders here eats a thing of grers every night. You know who I'm talking about.

>> I do. >> He has his whole ice his he has one freezer full Yeah. of grers and he eats it one little thing every night. >> If I could pull it off, I would.

>> It affects the waistline which then affects the pickle ball game. No question. Uh I had a question for you.

You've been watching and analyzing coaching people for a long time. He's no longer on the call, but I thought Brian

>> uh I thought he he was he was in he was on our side of things.

>> Oh, no kidding. >> It was pretty obvious. >> She was totally set up, but she knew she was set up. >> She did. But he just sat right back and just >> he just let let us handle it. Yeah. He had already told her what we were going to say. And she knew she did.

>> That was not a >> He's a smart guy, though. That's a pro move. >> That That was Dave. That was a flex.

Yeah. Just step back and step back and let someone else >> I saw the same thing you did. I was like, "Look at this guy. He's back there. No sweat." >> I'm going to let my wife ask this question. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yes. She has the question. >> I think Brian got the answer he wanted.

Good for him.

But to speak to that Dave on the on the real the temptation for small businesses how realistic what you said could happen. >> These days we're hearing as much as 60% of small businesses have credit card debt related to the business. >> Yeah. >> Starting and or operating the business.

>> Yeah. >> That ma is mathematical suicide. You know that we know that and I don't know if the stats true but it's been around so long everybody believes it. 80% of small businesses fail in the first 5 years. It's an SBA stat, >> right? >> Okay. And that's probably true, but it also includes businesses that never really started hardly. But of those, we

do know, and I do think this is true, the number one problem is cash flow.

Cash flow means they don't have any money. It means because they have debt payments and they don't pay their taxes and those are the things destroy cash flow and that runs you out of business.

So, we do know that's true. So, stay away from that crap and run your business. That's the idea.

Heat. Heat.

Our

scripture of the day, 1 Peter 4:10. Each

of you should use whatever gift you have

received to serve others as faithful

stewards of God's grace in its various forms. H. Jackson Brown said, "Talent

without discipline is like an octopus on roller skates. Plenty of movement, but you never know if it's going to be forward, backward, or sideways." >> That's some real depth right there.

Every hiring manager should read that quote.

>> That's the truth. Uh, you know, H. Jackson Brown did a book um 30 years ago

called Life's Little Instruction book.

>> Yes. >> And that's what this comes from, I'm sure. And, uh, it was a notes to his

son, >> oneliners like this to his son, and it became a huge bestseller. And, uh, I met

him back in those days. I was just starting. Uh, the first book had just come out. >> I didn't know that. I'm very jealous.

>> He's from Nashville. >> Is that right? >> Yeah. Yeah. He's from here. Yeah.

>> Octopus on roller skates.

>> That's pretty cool. It's good. Good movement. Yeah. Good.

>> Morgan is with us in Tampa, Florida.

Hey, Morgan. How are you?

>> I'm doing better than I deserve. Dave, how are you? >> Just the same. How can we help?

>> Um, I was hoping to get some insight on whether my husband and I can upgrade our hunk of junk of a car even though we're temporarily down to one income. So, I can fill in some details for you.

>> Do you have the cash to do it?

>> Yes. So, we're in baby step four, five, and sit. Mhm. >> Um, we've got about $60,000 in cash.

That includes 20,000 for the emergency fund and 10 for a business that I'm hoping to get off the ground um after I sit for and hopefully pass the bar in Florida. >> Good. Good for you. >> So, we're we were looking to spend somewhere between 10 and 20. Hopefully a little closer to 20, but I just feel a little weird about kind of raiding the war chest while we're kind of a little bit in sto or like in a little bit of a crisis right now. Uh I mean can you

cover your bills with the one income?

>> Yes. So we can we >> So you're not in a you're in not in a crisis. You're just not in a time of prosperity.

>> Yeah. I guess that's more accurate. It just feels a little weird to kind of read the the war chest. >> Well, it's not really a war chest. The war chest is labeled emergency fund.

It's 20. The war chest is labeled 10 for starting a business. And you're not touching either one of those.

>> Okay. >> So I think you're using the wrong term.

>> Yeah. And you got 30. And that means you got 30 more. And you know what? Go for it. >> You got excess savings. >> Get a $10,000 car and then when things get a little bit more stable, you can always sell that. >> What's the hunk of junk worth if you sold it? >> I don't think it's really worth much. I think the blue book on it is like $2500.

>> Okay. So 2500 minor $2500 and you put

125 with it and you get a $15,000 car.

>> Okay. It sounds more straightforward. I guess just feels like a very emotional decision. Well, >> well, it it is because you draw security from >> the savings and that's why you call it a war chest. >> Mhm. >> You get security from looking at those numbers >> more than you do from looking at that hunk of junk upgraded.

>> That's probably true. It's just it's cost us like $2,500 this year and now we need another $2,500 repair. So, >> nah, don't spend $2,500 on $2,500 car.

Don't do that. >> No. >> Okay. That makes it an easy decision.

>> Yeah, just sell it as is and let's move up. You don't have to move. You don't have to move up all the We're not going and buying a $65,000 car hoping you pass the bar. That's not what we're talking about. Okay. We're doing I mean, this is very very reasonable what you've described and you're paying cash and you're probably not going to drive the car that you buy but about a year.

>> Okay. >> Because it sounds like you're going to start your own practice once you pass, right? >> What I hope. Yeah. I'm practiced in I'm licensed in Pennsylvania, but we recently moved. So sitting for the Pennsylvania or sitting for the Florida bar hopefully will pass.

>> So it's not reciprocal.

>> No, not in Florida. Florida's very protective of their attorney, unfortunately. >> Very interesting. Okay. All right. And so what? So you have an existing practice back in Pennsylvania.

>> So I left my job with the federal government. I work in a really niche area of law in veterans benefit. Mhm.

>> Um, so right now I just kind of want to focus on the bar and then hopefully >> What are you going What type of practice are you opening? >> I want to keep it the same. So veterans benefits um mostly disability veterans law is what I'm hoping to do. I did that for about three years. >> Okay. >> Back in in PA.

>> That's interesting. Okay, cool. Good for you. >> What's the uh >> The good news is you're probably going to ramp it up pretty quick. That's why I was asking all the question. >> That's exactly what I was about to ask.

Realistically, how long if you pass the bar before you're up and running and making money?

>> I mean, so the outlook on that can be anywhere cases can take anywhere between like seven months to a year. And that's kind of what the 10 grand is for. That can kind of cover my base operating expenses for a year. So, I won't have an office or anything like that. So, it'll cover like the legal research and all those kind of ancillary costs. >> But again, you guys are already covered all your basics with your other income.

>> Yes. I think it's really just wanted that stamp of approval. I feel a little bit of peace about it. >> Yeah, I appreciate it.

I appreciate talking. Yeah, but it but I guess our other point, the reason we're asking all that questions is is that the the practice getting up and running is yet further insurance in addition to the savings numbers that this is a wise decision. >> Yeah. >> Okay.

>> That's why we're asking all the questions.

and and ask yourself this. What are the chances this $2,500 hoopty blows up in the next 30 days?" I'd say pretty high.

>> It's already Yeah, she's already at which point you got to get a car.

>> Yeah. So, let's Yeah, let's do it. Remington is in Memphis. Hey, Remington.

>> Remington. >> Hey, Dave. How are you? >> Great. How how can we help?

>> Oh, it's a uh kind of planned uh future

stuff. Um we're looking at building a house next to my parents and sister and

then also my brother. So, having a little family compound area. Um trying to figure out if you recommend doing like a only doing cash flow for

the money or 15-year mortgage. uh we don't have the you know the funds to cash flow right now. Um but then we also

have an offer from my dad to help cash flow upfront and then you know to avoid

red tape from the bank um and then

switch over to a mortgage after >> that one I would stay away from. I would just get a construction loan and build it and put it on a 15-year fixed >> to the degree that you can't cash flow it yourself. And of course, you got to make sure this is on a separate plot. If you build a home on someone else's land,

>> you're screwed. >> It's ours. Yeah, he Yeah, it's our land.

So, he recently >> It's not our land. >> Us. >> Well, my wife and I's >> Oh, you have a They They've parcled it out. It has a property line and everything inside that property line is only owned by you, not your dad.

>> Correct. He recently split it into three

uh me and >> Okay. uh two of my siblings. So, we own it all now. Um >> and we're looking at how >> and if something happened to you and your wife were widowed and she wanted to sell it, >> she can do that, >> right? >> Okay.

She might not want to live there. >> Okay. >> You might not want to live there 10 years from now.

>> Everybody got that emotionally figured out?

>> Yeah. I mean, we we we live nearby right now, so we're we're able to set those boundaries and stuff now. So, >> okay. Um, you got a separate parcel, but that doesn't mean that somebody's not Well, dad said we could never sell it.

He gave it to us, but said with the stipulation, we could never sell it. And no, then you're screwed. We don't want to get I don't want to get I do not want to get trapped.

Some blessings are a trap. And those are called curses. So, no, don't be just make sure that there's lots of movement here. lots of lots of places and things that can be done if our lives change and shift and nobody's going to be permanently pissed off for the next 42 years over one little piece of dirt and that's what happens. So be real careful with that part and you pay your own way without your dad and then you'll be in good shape. So good question.

>> I just have to believe though push back on this one that family compounds come with the expectations that we're all there for. Yeah, that's

the problem. >> I That's what I would It's It's very very difficult to have,

>> you know, reasonable lives. >> And then who wants to buy a house? You You're in the real estate world. You've been Who wants to buy one house, a one-off in a family compound?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's a problem.

It's a problem. Yeah.

>> People don't think these things through.

Yeah. >> That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 97. It’s Time To Stop Surviving And Start Winning With Money | October 24, 2025


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:02:00 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

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[Music]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw and we're here to take your call.88255225.

Joy kicks us off in Nashville right down the road. What's going on Joy?

>> Hi. Yes. Um I'm out here in Nashville.

My name is Joy and I'm going through a complete reset in my early 30s. I have three children and I'm trying to figure out how to restart financially after having owned a multi-million dollar company and going through a divorce. So, I think that that's the hardest thing that I'm working through right now.

>> Wow. Yeah, that's enough hard things. I think we're good on that. So, where does this stand? Is the divorce finalized?

>> No, it started back in June. I had to leave because um abuse and control.

>> So, I left for a week and it kind of started to snowball worse. And this is a company that we built together. And then he just that kind of started taking over everything and then started saying that I embezzled from him and that's why he has to do it. >> So are there lawyers involved now?

What's going on? >> There are there are lawyers involved. Um he has two and I have one. We don't even hit mediation till February and right now I just got assigned very very little pay from him until we can kind of everything can go out. But um like I said I I went from a lot of money down to just nothing. like I've had to rebuild my own. I don't even have anything. Um I had to just work my way

into what I have and I recently just got my first rental. I've always bought homes. Um so it's just like I'm in the middle of a serious wow, what do I do?

But I'm trying my best because I also homeschool my children. >> So the the court didn't issue you to have nothing. Has he just essentially locked you out of all of the money? Is that what's taking place?

>> That's correct. >> Okay. >> And the attorneys have done nothing to reverse any of this? there hasn't we haven't gotten to mediation and um we have 59 counts of contempt of court on his side. Um but it's just been a slow process because the goal is really custody with the children at this point and right now I'm primary and he gets a couple days a week. But I I think right now I'm being awarded um $2,500 a month

for just custody issues until we can even figure that out, which is very little to live on. >> Sure. What were you used to living on?

>> 20,000 >> a month. Okay. >> Yes. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. >> And you're still both a part of this company that's still running?

>> My name is 50% on it. It's an LLC. It's a manufacturing company. Okay.

>> Um, yes, correct. And I'm not working it

now. I got locked out. I can't even get unemployment because he won't get me.

>> What do you mean you got locked out?

>> I I don't understand how that's possible. But he is claiming that I embezzled and he is able to take control

of the company because I left the home because of the alleged abuse and I took off for a week and it just like I said >> so no more direct deposit paychecks nothing. >> Correct. Nothing. He started taking it into his account.

>> Who is saying that though? Is it just him or are your lawyers agreeing? Like who is >> who is corroborating this? Is this just his story and he's doing it and you're not allowed in or are lawyers saying yes?

>> Okay. So, can you go to your lawyer and say, "Hey, I'm 50% of this company.

>> am being locked out." What's What happens when you do that?

>> We have the paperwork. We've tried to show it in court, but court keeps saying, "We're going to try this in the divorce hearing. We're going to try this in the divorce." >> Okay. When is the divorce hearing?

>> We don't even have one set because of mediation. He they want us to get to mediation for >> which is in fe February.

Correct. >> So, how are you supposed to float yourself if he's locked you out of your own paycheck and is giving you two grand a month? >> I am an entrepreneur by heart. So, I started doing piano lessons, doing baked goods.

>> That's great. But you My point is you shouldn't >> That's good that you're doing that. But I want you to push on this really hard because February is a long way from now and that's not even like you said, that's not even the hearing. That's just for mediation to begin, right?

>> Yeah. Your attorney sucks.

>> I I don't know what to say about about any of that. I've really been pushing for this, but they keep saying my priority obviously is to have the kids.

And >> it is, but it shouldn't be at the you haven't done anything wrong. So, it shouldn't be at the detriment of uh you

not earning your income. I mean, obviously, if you're not working anymore, you're no longer earning an income. But figuring out how that works with you being part owner of the company is the part that because why can't you lock him out is all I'm saying. Like what if you're 50/50, you have just as much power as he has. So why is he holding do you not have keys to the company? Do you not have like I I just am trying to understand >> I understand >> how that balance of power happened.

>> So on on paper I'm 50% legal owner of

it. Um but you have to go through a court process like anybody can accuse you of anything. So, he was able to lock me out of the building, took all the money out of the account, um, and he was just able to just block me from any system that I ever created. We get to court, the court says, "Well, we can try this in divorce.

Our focus is on the children. There's really nothing that we can do until y'all get to divorce court." And we've gone to the judge multiple times on this, and the judge is saying the exact same thing. You're just going to have to pay her this in the meantime. And I wish I could understand that more, but that's what I keep getting told.

>> Understood. Okay. Um, so help.

we help you today? >> Well, I guess my question is, um, I'm going to have to try to find a path of not being able to work with him. That's just not possible at this moment. Um, and in the future, it's not going to be possible. I guess

I don't know how to move forward. Um

because I don't even know if I ask for a

portion of the company monthly. I know he's not going to be able to pay for it, pay me outright for the 50%.

>> Yeah. It'll likely be some kind of structured payout where over time and get profits of the company until you're paid up to 50% of the value that you guys all decide on with the lawyers and whoever else is involved.

>> But for now, we just need a plan to like survive right now. So you are in a rental, you have the kids a majority of the time. and you have $2,500 coming in from him plus whatever you can make on the side. >> Yes. So, it ends up being right around $5,000, which I've been able to do, but

it's still I'm just I'm just struggling.

I'm struggling with that. >> You have your own bank accounts now.

You've separated from him completely on that side. >> I've had to do all complete separation.

He's not even allowed to contact me.

>> And how much are you paying for the rental out of the 5,000?

>> 1750, which is really high for me.

>> Uhhuh. Um, and then, um, when you do

your budget, is there any margin whatsoever?

>> No. Okay. >> There's no margin. >> Do you have any debt that you're on the hook for that you feel like, hey, this is what's eating my lunch right now? Or is it simply the fact that, you know, I'm on a shoestring budget and this just really sucks right now? What's the thing that's like eating your lunch right now?

>> I have um no debt outside of the

business. The court has told him he has to cover everything. Um, but between the mortgage, homeschooling my children, um, like my Tahoe is a 21 Tahoe, it's paid for, but I'm driving, um, 30 minutes

four times a week to meet up with him back and forth. That gas is so expensive. >> Can you sell the house that you're not living in? >> That's the problem. He He has the house, too. I left. That's the problem with divorce. >> But is your name on it?

>> It is. >> Okay. So, you're going to have to force the sale of the house as part of this divorce. And that's >> the judge >> something for your attorney to fight for. >> Yes. And the judge has told him he needs to do it. Well, he is delaying the process. And they can delay the process in a $2 million house.

>> Sure. >> And um that's not I'm not even going to be able to look at that until probably a year year down the road that it >> Right. Right. Right. That's going to be a ways down the line. I'm not convinced that your lawyer is great. I feel like you're at the disadvantage when you shouldn't be. this is the the guy that was abusive and this is the guy that you had to flee from. So, find you an an attorney that understands that you're the one with the upper hand, not him.

Um, and that's the best advice I can give you. Luckily, nothing's on fire financially. You're just going to have to keep going until the divorce proceedings. >> Cover your four walls. And if you can't pay the mortgage on the house he's living in, tough cookies.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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So, it replaces a large part of your income. So, the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it.

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[Music]

John is with us up next in Bowling Green. What's going on, John?

>> Hey guys, how are you?

>> Great. How can we help today?

>> Okay, so we've been in u the baby steps

for two years.

We started out with $268,000 in debt. Half of that be our fe we bought several years ago um before we

started listening to y'all. Um we've been trying to sell it, but over the last three years, I've had nine surgeries and been been pretty sick.

>> Wow. >> Um this morning, >> this morning my neighbor passed away. I finally got a clean bill of health. I'm just leaving the the doctor

and my wife and I want to travel a little bit. So my question is, is it okay to be the slowest or the next of the slowest gazelle for the next two years while we finish up paying off so we can travel and enjoy life? Uh last

three years been hell.

>> Yeah, you've been through it, man. Hey, can you speak directly into your phone? We're having a hard time hearing you.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. Is that better? Not much, but we'll we'll try our best. Okay. So, you've had a lot of life happen. Nine surgeries, three years, big pile of debt. Where does the debt stand today?

What's the total balance of the consumer debt? >> The total balance of the consumer debt is $218,460.

>> Okay. So, you knocked out 50K in two years. Is that right?

>> Uh, a little over 50K. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, based on that math, you said there's two years to go. How is the math tracking on that?

or three years ago >> according I'm just going by what's uh on

my uh uh every dollar app now all of the

debt will be uh it'll be three years but

we're hoping that half of the debt right now is the RV and we're hoping to sell that >> that's based on selling the RV >> yes >> okay that makes more sense >> years to sell the RV >> and why isn't it selling just people aren't in the market for a RV at that price.

>> Yeah, it's a it's a you know middle of

the market diesel pusher. It's not highend. It's not low end. >> What's it what do you have it listed for?

>> Well, they have it listed for $125,000

and it looks private sale at $160.

>> So that's what we owe on is 120. So

we're trying to just get out from under it. >> And it's been on the market for a year.

How long? >> Uh, yeah. >> Something's wrong.

>> Have you Is this like a consignment where someone else is selling it for you or are you just doing this on your own?

>> No, we're doing it on our own through uh

u online ads and the RV trader and

>> Okay. >> All that kind of stuff, >> man. So, if you do that, that'll clear, you know, half your debt is what you're saying. >> Yeah, that'll Yeah, that'll clear 120,000 of that debt. That makes more sense.

>> Okay. So, you're want to know if you could slow down and travel and enjoy life a bit more and it's because of the the health scares. The neighbor passes away and you're sort of in this like yolo. Life is short. Is this worth it for 3 years knowing we don't know how much time we have left on this earth?

>> Right. >> How old are you and your wife?

>> I'm 62. My wife is 61.

>> Okay. And how's your wife's health?

>> She's great health.

Um, I I hear what you're saying. I I

understand the logic of what you're wanting to do. Um, I'm just worried that

you're going to continue to kick this can down the road and possibly add more debt to it. It's very hard to

uh start the lifestyle you're wanting to start and then stop it suddenly to clean up this mess, right? you're wanting to travel the world, have a great time, have a, you know, that that peaceful, easy feeling, but that's going to be tough to do with this debt laying around. I'd rather you take some time and really pay this off and so that when you do go travel, you really are enjoying it. There's not this kind of monster in the closet waiting for you when you get home.

And you said yourself, you have a clean bill of health.

or something else bad is going to happen or d the truth is okay, you do have a

clean bill of health. The truth today is that your wife is healthy and the truth today is that you've got a pile of debt sitting here that you've you've had a lifetime to clean up and now you're realizing it, oh man, I I do need to clean this up. So, I would take that I would take that hint and not spend another day like this. I would I would go headstrong into it.

>> Okay. >> At the end of the day, >> we don't want to we don't want to travel the world. We just want to like go for

two or three day overnights and take our RV. >> What's that going to cost?

>> What's it going to cost? It's It's about $200 a weekend. Oh, I mean it's not a

lot of money truly. Um >> I mean that's like fun money for a lot of people. So if you wanted to take a $200 weekend trip, that's fine. But I think the idea of well, we'll do it another weekend, another weekend, and we'll get a little lack of days over here.

Yeah. I think it's just a slippery slope. It's hard to be really intense while knowing that's also happening on the side. There's just a level of scorched earth.

Come hell or high water, we're getting out of this debt. and in your 60s to still be carrying this debt your whole adult life. That's what worries me because truthfully there there's a more of a chance that something could happen to you and now your wife is left carrying this pile of debt to deal with while grieving your loss. So we also have to think about reality on top of the like well we don't know how much time we have so let's just live and do the baby steps at our leisure.

I think that that's great. Um and I'm not mad at that. So, if you did, if you're like, "Listen, I've been in and out of the hospital. It's finally over. My wife and I were taking a trip to celebrate." I have no problem with that.

Uh, as a form of a lifestyle over, you know, and doing that at the detriment of not paying off your debt. I would not do that. Um, as a lifestyle, if that makes sense. >> And think about it, 200 bucks is not going to delay your debtree journey a whole lot. It's not >> 200 bucks every month or more.

>> Now, we're now we're talking about a serious delay. And so, that's I I would have you crunch the numbers. And here's what I do, John, to make myself justify things like this. I'm going to go, okay, where can I find $200 that I I haven't found yet. I'm willing to work extra or do a side hustle to come up with that $200 that wasn't going to come from our our debt payoff journey. That is a way I would uh couch it to make sure that this doesn't delay the journey as well.

>> Okay. Yeah. We don't want to take away any money that we're using to pay the debt snowball. Um we want to find it

someplace else. So, I I hear what you're saying. Mhm.

>> And then hopefully we can get this RV listed. I might look into some other options like consignment or something to have someone else list it professionally and handle it and handle the test drives and the paperwork. Even if it cost you a little bit, uh you might be able to get more for it >> doing it that way. And they might, you know, get professional photos instead of, you know, taking a iPhone picture and listing it on Facebook.

I think there might be other avenues to get this thing sold.

Ethan's up next in Nashville. What's going on, Ethan? get right to the question. We're up against the clock.

>> Hey, how are we doing? >> Great.

>> Good. Um, so I am 25. I live in

Nashville here. Yes. And I am just so

thrilled to announce that I have completed baby step three.

>> Good. Way to go. >> A big milestone for me. I've never been super great with money, but I've I've kind of I like following this system.

So, I'm to the point now where four, five, and six are my next approach. And if I look at five and six, saving for kids, college, paying off the mortgage early. I feel like these don't directly apply to me because I'm younger and I'm less established. I don't have it. I'm not married. I don't have any kids. I've never bought a house before. So, I'm I'm curious, you know, >> what can I do with my money outside of

those things? What are the next steps for me in particular? Obviously, you know, investing some is going to be good. >> Yeah. But you need to hit that 15%. So for you, baby step four still applies.

Obviously, if you have four, five, and six to do, you do them simultaneously.

But for you, that's not the case. You'll just do baby step four. You'll invest 15% into good growth stock mutual funds.

You can either do that through a job if your job has maybe a Roth 401k. If not, you could invest it into a, you know, Roth IRA and do that every single year.

And then if you have money left, yeah, add it to your budget. Some of it might be fun money, some of it might be uh additional savings because one day you are going to want to buy a house, Ethan.

And when that day comes, saving up, you know, a down payment, 20% if you can get it, whatever is going to keep that home less than 25% figures in the Nashville area. So you got plenty of work to do just in baby steps, what we call 3B, saving the down payment, and four investing. So yeah, blessing to have that time >> 15% and then stack the rest in a high yield savings account for that house in the next few years if you can make it happen. And then like Jade said, enjoy some of it too, man.

[Music]

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[Music]

Rebecca's up next in Boston. What's going on, Rebecca? How can we help today? >> Hi, guys. Thanks for my call.

>> Sure. Speak directly into your phone.

>> Can you hear me? >> Yes, that's better.

>> Okay. Um, so my husband and I bought a house earlier this year. Um, we actually moved in a week after having our first baby. Um, for religious and social reasons, we wanted to be in a specific city, but because it was really expensive, we kind of bought in the outskirts of the city. Um, it wasn't the most known location, but we said, you know, for 7 to 10 years, we'll live here, we'll build equity, we'll save more money, and then we'll go elsewhere.

Um about two months after we moved into the house, we found out that the church across the street, um the pastor has actually been trying to open a homeless shelter um in the plot of land that the church owns next to the church. Um there were government officials that were trying to fight it and kind of explain to the pastor that, you know, it's a it's a residential area. There's a lot of families, young children, and he um expressed that he was still going with it and that this was an interest of his um right now.

Okay. Can you hear me now? >> Can you It's coming in and out now.

Let's try again.

>> Okay. >> What about now? Can you hear me? >> Yep. That's better. >> That's better. >> Oh, okay. Uh, should I start from the beginning? >> No, >> no, no. We got you.

>> Oh, okay. Um, so now it's currently under an audit. Um, so we're kind of in the situation where we don't know what to do because we thought we were going to be in this house for 7 to 10 years.

We put about $40,000 of work into it.

Um, when we found out about all of this, we did a little bit of research and we actually put the house on the market, but we had to include that $40,000 of work. Um, because we didn't want to lose money on the house. There were no hits on it because we knew that it was overpriced given the fact that we put money into it. Um, so now we're kind of in the situation where if we sell the house, we really wouldn't be able to afford anything else because everything else is double the price of what we bought.

Um, but are we supposed to sell to get out now before the house potentially depreciates if there is a shelter across the street? you know, we wouldn't really want to leave our family right across from there. >> Um, do we sell it even at a loss to prevent further loss or are we supposed to kind of stick it out and and see what happens?

city or ordinance or whatever is going through, when will you know if this can happen or it's not going to happen?

What's the timeline there? >> So, nobody's been giving us a straight answer. We've been having a lot of back and forth. Some people say, "Oh, the audit could take a year. Some people say it could take six months." We're kind of like in this limbo. We don't really know. No one's really giving us an answer. >> Um, I mean, part of me,

it's one of those things. It could go either way. I I don't think that you're going to be able to get the 40,000 back.

You I think if you guys choose to move,

especially sooner than later. I think that's going to be a pill that you're probably going to have to swallow. Um >> Mhm. >> And I hate that for you because $40,000 is a lot of money. Um, but I I I do

sympathize with you because I am thinking about that, you know, once if that happens, >> how do a little due diligence and find out if what the timeline could look like

cuz obviously people have to okay this and then it's like what must be true from then on. And I would go over to the church and I would just level with whoever's >> and I'd say, "Hey, >> the pastor." >> Yeah. in in a non like combative way just say, "Hey, we're we're trying to work with what might happen here once this gets approved. How long until people will start coming here and how long until your doors are going to open?

We're just trying to do some family planning here and do they tell you anything?" >> Oh, yeah. So, I get that and they said that he I spoke to the pastor directly and he told me that it will take about 2 to three years for them to build the facility and then he expects the people to come right in after. Um the issue is is that once we start building and people know about it, then nobody's going to want to buy the house anyways. Then it's closed.

>> I see. I see. I see. >> What have your neighbors uh been saying about this?

effort, >> right? People have been calling the government officials, but like as I said there, it seems like there were some under the table situations going on. Really, nobody really knows exactly, but people are kind of just saying we can't really afford to go anywhere else. So like we kind of have to wait and see.

But I kept telling my husband, I'm like, if we take the wait and see approach, then we're going to be the people that are stuck not having a place to go.

Like, what are we supposed to do? >> Have Have you Listen, there's a couple ways you can go here. You could, yeah, tomorrow put the house up for 40,000 less and hightail it out of there. Or you could say, I really care about this neighborhood.

I really care about what's going on here. I'm going to pull my neighbors together. We're all going to go down to the church together and say, we love what you're trying to do. We just wish you could do it not here.

Is there like and start opening up the lines of conversation?

>> That's been tried like community leaison

have tried and and the pastor is very insistent on the fact that he owns this plot of land and he wants that this to go there. He has whatever deals he has and like this is this is his plan. So I I just I guess I don't know. We're so lost here. >> Well, we there's no crystal ball to say, hey, if this thing is wellrun, the home prices may rebound. We just don't know.

And so I don't think we can say across the board if there's a homeless shelter in any residential area, the market tanks there forever. And so I want you to get some facts around this. I would have your real estate agent actually pull comps in areas where there's a homeless shelter near residential homes.

And then track it to see what happened with the home prices there. Did they stabilize? Did they rebound depending on the shelter and the area? That'll actually help you get some facts cuz right now it's just all emotion and rage. And so I want I think that'll help just go, >> okay, there's not a worst case scenario.

The market's going to continue to continue to increase. So if we stick around for five years, we'll probably get our 40,000 back and be able to sell for what we paid for it or a little more versus no matter what, if we stay, it's going to be terrible.

>> Okay. And if we decide to to go, how much of a mistake is it to go back to renting? >> I don't think it's a mistake. I think that >> it's we'll call that a stupid tax that was out of your control of just we had to pay, you know, it costs us, you know, because you're going to pay realtor fees on the back end of this and closing costs just to get out of this on top of the lost, you know, missed ROI of this uh all the renovations.

So, yeah, it might cost you guys a pretty penny and might slow down your next home buying purchase, but if it's if it's going to cause you to lose your piece for the next 40 years, then I don't think it's worth it.

And even though we wouldn't be able to necessarily save as fast as the houses would appreciate in this specific community, >> I I think that's what you guys have to decide. I mean, there's not a uh there's not a right or wrong answer here. The answer is what is it? Because you called in and said, I don't want to live across from a homeless shelter.

So, if you don't, then you need to decide, okay, what are we willing to risk on the timeline here? Do we want to hold on to this a little bit longer, say another year?

Are we starting is the word starting to get out on the street that this is happening and we're getting you know I you're going to have a better uh understanding of what's taking place in your community than George and I are.

But just understand there's not a wrong or right answer here. You get to decide who where you're going to live and you get to decide how big of a problem this is going to be for you. Um, I'm just sitting here thinking about it and I'm like, is there any way that this could be a really nice facility and all the kind of things that you're concerned about really be contained? And I I'm having a hard time seeing how that could be.

>> Yeah. And that's where the research is going to help you. There's lots of homeless shelters in Boston. That's where I'm from.

And so I would go, what is the real estate market like around those shelters? And now we can see, okay, it stabilizes. Yeah, it goes down for a little bit. Nobody loves it during construction, but then once things are up and running and if it's run smoothly, things bounce back.

>> And then what about like the safety piece of just not wanting to live there? I guess that's our own. >> That's my point. That's ex you're you're exactly saying my point, Rebecca, is if that's messing with your piece and you're saying, "I don't want to live here." You can move and just understand that you're going to take a financial hit.

And to your point, it could take you longer to buy again. Like, that is going to set your timeline back. It's not saying that you're making a bad choice or a dumb choice or anything like that. It's just I am making a calculated choice and I understand that when I do this, this is the hit that I'm going to take financially.

This is the hit to my timeline it's going to take.

>> Right. What would you guys do if you were in my shoes? >> I think I'd move.

>> Really? >> I'm not saying I'd move today, but I'd be watching and if I see that this is seeming like it's going to happen, I'd probably try to get out of there. >> That's just me. I have two young kids.

>> No matter what, whoever is going to move there is probably going to find out this project is going to be happening in the foreseeable future. So, they either go, "Yan, okay, we'll deal with that. Not a big deal." Or they get spooked by it.

And so someone's going to want to buy a house in the Boston area regardless of what it's near. That's just how it is in a in a very, you know, populated metro like Boston. Can you tell us what area this is?

>> Uh I don't want to get too specific on that. >> You said it's pretty far out though.

>> Like is it in city limits?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. Yeah.

I mean I It's If you're right across the street, if it's the next house over, or is it around the block? Like all that matters. If it was right across my from my front door, I'd probably >> if I'm on the front porch staring at it, that that's different. So again, I would do all the research before making any decision if I was in your shoes and then I would have a conversation with my wife.

We would be aligned and then we would do it regardless of the financial implications. We'd go, "All right, this is what it's costing us to make this move." >> Mhm.

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Phoenix, Arizona up next. What's going on, Henry? Welcome to the show. Hey guys, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. What's your question?

>> Hey, uh my question, uh I'm just getting started with baby step number two. Uh so looking forward to all the pain and stuff that Dave talked about. Yeah.

>> Uh um I guess my question is around staying motivated as you're going through this baby step. Um especially with my

situation, just there's external uh circumstances and stuff like that that are pretty demotivating. like what?

>> Uh my wife had a intrusive brain surgery

back uh end of 2021 that left her disabled and it kind of >> sorry >> it kind of took away all like our our hopes and dreams of our future life together and stuff like that. So it's kind of like part of us is wondering like why even you know go through the baby steps and stuff if there's nothing to live for at the other end you know.

>> Oh my gosh I'm sorry that is that is very tough. So, let me ask let me just

reverse the question back to you. Why why are you doing this? Why is this important to you?

>> Um, I have been a person that's always been on top of my payments and just because of the depression, shame, whatever you want to um call it over the past couple years. Um, we kind of acrewed the 45 grand of of debt now. Um,

and the past two months now I haven't been able to pay my cards and it's embarrassing and I'm I I just don't want to deal with that anymore. So, just I got the second job and it's starting this week and we're just going to grind through it. >> Nice. What's your household income?

>> Um, so my day job I make uh 59 a year

with a 10% bonus at the end of the year and then I picked up a restaurant gig in the evenings and from talking with my different training people. Um, they make

150 a night on week nights and then right around 250 to 300 on the the weekends. So, I'm probably if I can pick up enough shifts, I'm I'm low estimate

of 1,500 a month, >> okay, >> for the next couple months while it's restaurant season here in Arizona.

>> So, I mean, no question uh your picture

of life has changed and you're probably still struggling to see what what that's going to be and what that looks like.

I'm not mad at you finding something to focus on, especially something productive like paying off $45,000 of debt. Um, I I can only speak for me,

George, but sometimes having something like that to focus on when everything feels out of control. This is one thing that you can control. Sometimes that's just what you need to power through a season like this. >> Um, and on the other side of it,

there'll be some peace because this debt will be gone. Um, and it kind of clears the deck for you to say, "Okay, what is our life going to look like now? What does it mean for me working? What does it mean for her care?" All of these different things. So, I I I think this is worthwhile for you to do um for the same reasons that other people do it, right? There's still going to be peace on the other side financially for you.

Now, as far as the motivation, are you concerned that uh the working

the extra hours at the restaurant is what's going to wear you down? Is that kind of what you're talking about?

>> Yeah, the the exhaustion from that. Um

and then also just the extra time away from my wife cuz she's she's home alone, you know. >> Yeah. Uh, and I mean, you're going to have to balance that because there are some extrinuating circumstances here for you that you're going to have to say, uh, I might have to pull back in certain seasons. And I think that you can navigate that and judge that for yourself. What's the timeline when you put the these numbers into every dollar?

What is it telling you? How long is it going to take you with this money?

>> About 20 months. >> Okay. 20 months. So yeah, I you I have

found as a person who walked a debt payoff journey of seven and a half years, I kind of found that there's moments where you're pressing on the gas, you know, pedal to the metal and then a life moment happens and it causes you to take your foot off ever so slightly and then, you know, you recalibrate and then you put the pedal to the metal again. And so that's a lot of times what it looks like. Um that's just the reality of it. Not to say that you've done anything wrong and I'm sure that that'll pop up in your circumstance, too.

intent of I'm gazelle intense. Come hell or high water. And then if something happens with your wife or something happens when you need to pull back, that's okay. And then you hit it again strong as soon as you can.

>> Awesome. Yeah, that's great. >> What were some of your your dreams and goals that are now off the table that have left you guys kind of feeling just cynical toward the future?

>> Uh children. Um just a normal life. We

were both artists pursuing our different uh stuff out in LA for a bit. Um, and then we had to move back to be near family for help. Um, and she was a very very gifted musician and now she she can't play or sing at all much. So, um,

you know, it's just hard to see and hard to not be able to do the things you love. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, man. That's so tough. Are you guys still wanting to become parents in the future through other means?

>> Uh, possibly. But with the just neurological fatigue that she experiences on a day-to-day basis, I'd have to make enough money to either work from home and be there to help out or hire an uh stay-at-home like nurse or something, you know? >> Yeah. >> Nanny. >> How fresh is this?

>> Oh, the surgery was about four years ago, end of 2021.

>> Okay. >> Um, and like I said, we've just been going through a lot of like just depression and just grieving the loss of our lives, if you will. >> Absolutely.

Uh, and you know, we've we've been doing therapy and that type of stuff and trying to get through it. Um, but I think it's fresh right now because her her mom was just got into uh she her mom

just had brain stem surgery for the same disease. So, um, >> so she's in ICU right now. So, it's kind of that's kind of just why it's fresh.

>> I'm so sorry. Was this like a kiari malf for something like that?

>> Uh, yeah. Um, CCM, a cabinoma. It's like

a a lesion. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm so sorry, man. Well, you're you're taking the right steps. Um I'm proud of you. It's hard to just like to wake up and go to work and face the day.

Yeah. >> And I want to send you a copy of John Deloney's book, Building a Non- Anxious Life. It's got six daily choices. Um and one of them is, you know, choose reality. And you guys have grieved what was and now it's like this is the reality of what is. And it'll also help you start to dream and create a new picture that you both are aligned on.

Uh, but I'm I'm with you in the fact that it's hard and I'm also with I'm against you in the fact that I think this gives you a much deeper why of why to do the baby steps. You have more reason than almost anyone to do it because you can create financial peace in your home to where you have flexibility to be there for your wife instead of be stressed out about the debt working 90 hours a week forever.

I'd rather you suffer for 20 months and sacrifice than 20 years of just kind of mediocrity carrying this debt, carrying the shame. >> There's still a lot of life to be had.

even if it's not the picture that you guys had. And so I want to encourage you with that and and get you a copy of that book. But man, it's it's not easy.

There's no sugar coating this and working those nights knowing your wife is at home and I mean it's it's going to be a grind, but you can do anything for 20 months. You guys have already been through the hardest of this.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah.

Thank you guys for that. It's a it's a great new perspective and a great way to look at it. >> Yeah. Thanks for the call, Henry.

Appreciate you. Hang on the line. We'll get you a copy of John's book. All right, man.

I just got to take a moment to breathe after that one, Jade. >> Yeah, that's tough. I mean, your life can change in the twinkling of an eye, just in the in a split second, man. It's tough.

>> And it's one of those reasons, you know, people who don't follow the baby steps because they feel like life is going well, >> you know, they're not at a like rock bottom where they're like, I need to clean a mess up. >> Yeah. >> That's that's where they you can't show them that. You can't show them the future where life's going to happen to you.

>> Right? And it's not about like being like fatalistic or having like this glass half empty point of view, but the truth is life does happen. I mean, it could be as simple as, oh my gosh, I I tripped down the stair and I broke my leg and now I'm out of work, you know?

Uh, emergencies happen, life happens, diagnosis happen, you know, marriage

shifts happen in the form of divorce. I mean, we hear it all the time and you just never know. No one sets out for the day and says, "I know today is going to be the day that the doctor calls with bad, right?" But you you do want to prepare your life in such a way to where if the worst does happen, you've set yourself up for success in the best possible ways that you could have success. Yeah. Right. Because what he's facing feels very, I'm sure, very dark.

But to have this one thing that's like, "Okay, but I did this and because of this, now I can go home. I can have a little bit more peace than I would have had else-wise, right?

>> And for our world, that's not owing other people money. Not having to deal with that payment while you're also trying to figure out finances for the future if there's a a job loss or a health scare. >> Having an emergency fund to cover you so you're not having to swipe that credit card or take out that personal loan or do the HELOC. Investing for the future so that you do have that nest egg built up so that in case you can't work one day, you have money to cover your expenses.

That's why we do the baby steps. Not cuz life's going great, because we don't know what life will throw at us.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by my co-host Jade Warshaw. Open phones at 888255225.

Oliver is in Davenport, Iowa. Up next, what's going on Oliver?

>> Thank you for having me. I'm about to get into about a million dollars worth of debt and I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing. >> Have you done it yet? Have you signed any paperwork? Can we talk you off the ledge?

>> Well, let's see if if if that's the way to go about it.

>> Okay. So, what is the million dollars for? >> So, I've until about a year ago, I lived

by their Ramsey rules uh religiously,

both me and my wife. Haven't had a single dollar in loans. And about a year

ago, I started a business and we killed it this year. Uh, I've more than tripled my income and we're doing fantastically.

However, I now come uh to an opportunity

which requires an additional about $450,000 investment into the business and I just

found out that my wife's pregnant. So, we are also building a house.

>> Okay. >> So, >> you gota you got to have room for that.

The baby, you know, a six pound baby needs an extra 2,000 square feet. >> Take up so much room. That's the law in America.

Yes. >> So, tell me, let's start with let's start with the house. So, what are you spending on this house and have you already made an offer? Is it a done deal or is it too late?

>> So, it's we've already started it. Uh

we've already signed the paperwork and we started building it. It should be finished in in February.

>> What' you spend >> and at that point we will be taking out a loan uh to purchase it.

>> Okay. And what's the total spend on the house? It is $560,000.

>> Okay. And did you do it following the Ramsey principles with the payment and everything like that, the down payment and the what the mortgage is going to be? >> We have put uh 25% down payment and

we're not spending more than 20 uh I don't remember how many exactly percent of our income on it. >> Okay. 25% no more than 25% of your take-home pay every month, including HOAs, taxes, and insurance. Okay, good.

That's a green check from me. Uh I'm not mad about that. So, let's talk about this $450,000 quote opportunity.

>> You should if Go watch on YouTube later, Oliver. I threw my hands up in the air because just during the break, I told Jade, I said, "Jade, every time I hear the word opportunity, it's someone about to do something real stupid." And so, you just you hit my trigger button.

>> So, and that that's kind of where I'm at. Uh, so I started this I I've been doing this my entire life pretty much.

I'm a CNC machinist. We have all sorts of fancy degrees, but I opened an aerospace and medical uh device company.

So, all we do is make uh components for other people. Uh and the we've only

opened our doors in February, and now we're up to making 13 to $15,000 a

month. And that's not very consistently

even though I still have a full-time job on top of that just for security purposes cuz it is a new business. When you say per month, is that like topline revenue or is that net profit?

>> That's that's net profit.

>> Okay, good job. >> Amazing. What are you making with your full-time job?

>> I make 175. My wife makes 85.

>> Awesome. So, you already had a great income before this business.

>> Yes. >> And how did this opportunity present itself for you to go half million in debt for a business?

Uh well, I have multiple customers that I work with right now and we currently have only one machine that we work on and we cannot supply the demand and

buying an additional piece of equipment will allow me probably triple my income.

Uh if if that uh probably even more

because right now I'm paying a lot for rent. So if I can put more machines into my shop, I can make more money, right?

>> So the machine costs 450 grand. That's

including all the installation fees, tooling, etc. So, that's all things considered. >> Okay. >> So, I'm always going to suggest that you move at, you know, the speed of cash on things like this. But my question is, is

there is this any is any part of this incremental or is it like I must do it all at once? 450,000 bam on the table.

>> It's all or nothing.

>> Okay. What happens if you don't do it in the next two years?

Well, if I don't do it in the next four months, I lose the business that that I

have lined up for that. Well, not really lined up, but the opportunity that's lined up for it, cuz I do have specific orders that are coming down the pipeline that I can put on it. And if I hold off

for another year, those orders are not going to be there. Not probably won't find new ones, but >> can you go on a different growth track?

like can you go in another direction that'll continue you building this $15,000 profit a month plus your other

income with you and your wife what is that around $260,000 is there a way that you can capitalize another area of your business continue to grow that until you can afford to make some of these upgrades >> not really I'm topped out at the moment we're we're already running two shifts and running through the night just to try and keep up >> so what was your original business plan

of >> of scale like scaling the business.

>> Start.

>> Got you. >> And then figure Well, I I had a couple of orders lined up just to get started, but really it was >> start going down the pipeline and start doing it and >> and it's going to work out and it it really did. >> Did you have the ab did you have the thought in mind when you because I'm trying to understand when you first started this business, did you have in your mind, I'm starting this business.

uh I'm not going to take out debt for it. I'm just going to grow it even if it's slow and steady. Or did you have in mind I'm gonna start this business and I'm going to be one of those people who, you know, takes on investors and takes loans and who were you when you started this pro this project?

>> I was planning to, if needed, I was planning to take loans and grow exponentially if that's where I needed to go. It's just right now I'm I never expected to be in this position a year >> from starting the business. I thought it's going to be a much more slower and gradual uh growth rather than all and

everything all at once.

>> Uh and all of the tariffs that are now happening are definitely helping out with that because we're having a lot of people who used to order from other countries and now they're coming back to the US.

>> So here's my take. I think the opportunity will still be there. You might lose some in the meantime, but I don't want you to get too stareyed and go, "Well, if we had seven machines, we could 20x." At some point, there's not enough money in the world to make the stress worth it, >> especially with a baby on the way. And so, I want you to think about just the reality of your situation.

You're about to move. You got a baby on the way. Do we also want another half million in debt now?

>> Now, you have to be there working overnight. And what if she decides to stay home once the baby's here?

>> Well, what does that do? that might put some strain on this financial situation we've created because we owe a lot of money now.

>> Fair point. >> So, that's the part I can't show you on paper. That's just the reality of life.

Uh, but I would say, can we make a plan to save up and pay cash for this thing in less than two years?

>> I think that's the reality. If you guys are bringing home, you know, I don't know, 25 grand a month and you can live off seven. Let's throw 18 into a high yield savings account and two two years from now we have 450 grand in cash.

Now that thing's cash flowing beautifully instead of having a, you know, $4,000 a month payment on it.

>> Yeah. There's nothing on fire here unless you make it on fire.

>> And that's the beauty of what you've done so far. >> You're a brilliant guy. And so all I'm saying is the opportunities will be there. People want good, honest, quality work done from smart people.

And I think that opportunity will still be there 2 years from now. And I hope you call back and you have a multi multi-million dollar machining business that is paid for in cash. And I think that future is very much possible for you guys. It's going to happen sooner than you know it.

[Music]

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[Music]

Philip is in South Dakota. Welcome to the Ramsay Show, Philip. How can we help? >> Hi. Um, thanks for having me. Uh I uh so me and

my wife um have been living paycheck to

paycheck for quite a few years now. Um

at one point we we managed to get out, but that was when I had worked a job that uh paid me more and then I unfortunately lost that job and then um

now I'm a custodian at a school that pays me once a month. Um, we just had our our second kid and um, she's not

working right now, but I'm fine. Uh, to

to really make this this money uh, stretch. Um, and and I I I don't know

how I'm I'm trying to make our money stretch, but also not live paycheck to paycheck. >> Yeah. >> How much debt do you guys have?

Well, uh I I'm I'm I'm

thousands uh in the uh for for

healthcare. Um so >> you got medical bills? >> I know she's Yeah, medical. And then um I know that she's uh she's in debt with

uh medical, too. Um >> you got car loans, credit cards?

>> Uh no, we do not. Actually, I I had a credit card when I had moved up here and I I think I paid it off because um they

haven't bothered me since. I wasn't terribly in debt with the credit card, thank God, but >> Okay. Okay. So, I'm hearing some >> I'm I'm hearing some uncertainty in your language, which lets me know that you haven't really gotten your head around

your finances. You kind of know that there is some debt, but maybe you don't know how much it is, and hopefully it's gone. like that kind of situation. What I'd like is for you and your wife to sit down tonight and pull out everything that you think there might be surrounding this.

>> And you can pull your credit reports to help. You can go to annualcreditreport.com and pull all three from the three credit bureaus for free. That'll give you a real clear picture of what's out there. Mhm.

There's debt. I don't know how much. I'm just making the payment. You know, you're just barely getting by. You don't have a budget. And so when you don't have a plan, it's really hard to be in control of your money. And so if we give you every dollar, that's going to be the plan going forward. But you guys have to do it. You got to plug the numbers in.

You put your income at the top, which by the way, uh, what are you making as a custodian? What do you bring home every month? >> Well, I get paid $17 an hour. Uh, 2,300

a month. I get paid once a month. I think that rounded up to 31,000

$32,000 a year.

>> Okay. Is there money coming in from anywhere else or is this the only money to you guys' name every single month? Is there any um anything else? Um, if she

goes back to work, she'd be pulling in money, too. Um, I think she makes around

a th00and $1,000 every every two weeks.

>> What about What about your living situation? What are you paying for rent?

>> We we pay about $1,000 for rent. Um,

>> so that's half your income just about right there, >> which >> Yes, sir. >> to pay $1,000 in any other circumstance isn't bad, but when you're only making 2,300, it it's impossible, right? So,

the key here, this is an income problem, and I think that you realize that. When will your wife start working again?

>> Um, >> well, like I said, she she had her baby about about a month ago. Um, so I would

assume maybe maybe in in a couple weeks.

Um, I told her when she's ready to go back in. So, I I I don't want to throw

her back into work if she's not ready.

>> Which means that you're gonna have to have like four jobs. Okay.

>> And I hate telling you that because it's your baby, too, right? And you're like, I want to be home with the newborn. I want to see this baby, you know, grow every day a little bit each more each day. But you don't have that luxury right now. You've got to have the custodian job and three others while you're online and knocking on doors to

find another main job that pays more.

You've got your work cut out for you, Philip. >> What were you doing before?

Um, well, before I was working at a gas station and that paid uh I think 13 or

$14 an hour. Um, >> well, you said you were making more money and now and then you lost that.

>> I was I'm sorry. I I was making more money uh two years ago when I was working at a when I was working at an ethanol plant.

I was making about $22 an hour.

>> Okay. >> Um and I was getting paid bi-weekly. And um >> How old are you? >> That was pretty good.

I'm I'm 25. Okay, you're still a young guy. I What I think we need to do is find ourselves a career instead of just a job. Something you can really sink your teeth into, grow in, and that'll get you making 50, 60, 70, 80.

That's who people are looking to hire.

So, what kind of skills would you say you have that you could apply to another area? Are you good with your hands? Are you pretty handy?

Yeah, I I don't mind, you know, getting my hands dirty and and doing grunt work.

That's what I've been doing most of my life. I worked in construction before I moved to South Dakota. So, um I I did

that for for a long while there. Um

>> sorry, you broke up on us. What I'm going to do, Philip, is send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

>> So we do need to increase that income ASAP >> and if your if your wife can get back to work and make you know 354 grand and you can start making 45 50 grand well now we have a plan to get out of this a whole lot faster. Mhm. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I like that plan for you.

And I, you know, I think sometimes people think they've got to have a college degree. They've got to have this college education and that's not always the case. So, I think that Ken Coleman's book is really going to help you get on the right path. >> Yeah.

Hang on the line will get you every dollar. And Ken's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. John is in Houston up next. John, how can we help today?

>> Yes, sir. So, we're my wife and I were expecting.

year. Um, now her family is uh giving us

a section of land and we're looking at

putting a double wide on it and we're going to be there for, you know, that's our going to be our forever. Uh, my real

main question on this is I have the opportunity to go through with the VA home loan like my current home loan. Um,

but I don't know if I want to or if it'd be a good idea to pair the land and the

VA home loan because that's what it's going to require or keep the land separate and do what they call a cattle loan.

>> That's just like a highinterest personal property loan. So, let me >> pretty much. Yes, it is.

>> You triggered me again. And I don't know how long you've been listening this hour, but you say the word opportunity and I get my my my fists are up ready to fight >> cuz what you're about set yourself up to is get a depreciating asset at a very high interest rate, >> right? >> And so this it's a bad plan all around.

>> And the VA loans, they can be an okay deal in some cases if your disability rating is high enough, but man, it's riddled with fees. The closing takes forever. There's really strict requirements and it gets people into houses with nothing down which is not a good thing because all that means is you have 100% loan and you have no equity.

>> Right. Correct. So we would still take our current equity, split that in half, pay off the truck and pay uh actually

still do a down payment.

>> How much debt do you guys have?

Uh I we only have the the house which we

owe 110 and the truck which is 38 and then about a th000 on a credit card.

>> And why why would you go from the house which is appreciating to a mobile home?

>> Yeah. What's >> Well, it is a it is a current mobile home with land, but it has the land has appreciated. And my agent, you know, I

talked with her the other day. She told me what we could list and what everything's selling at and I would have equity in it. >> Yeah, but what's the rush? I don't think there's I don't think there's a rush around this and I don't like what you're rushing towards. I I agree with with George on this. Plus, you still have debt. >> Yeah. What's your household income?

>> Uh mine is anywhere per year from 76 to

probably about 80. Uh my wife's is about

32 right now. She's in school. that

we're paying for, you know, cashwise and she'll be making about 50 to 60. Okay.

>> And then VA, >> you guys have a strong income, man. I would just go slow and get out of the house. I would not move to another mobile home that's going to depreciate.

I don't think the land's going to appreciate fast enough to make this a good idea.

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Not available in all states. All >> righty. Today's question comes from Toby in New York. He says, "If I have two full-time jobs and the second income is currently going towards investing in my retirement and the Oh, let me read that again. If I have two full-time jobs and

the second income is currently going towards investing in my retirement fund, do I still need to have an emergency fund since this second job effectively

insulates me from the loss of my primary job? I would like to invest as much as I can now while I'm young and worry about the emergency fund later. I'm debtree other than my mortgage. Oh, Toby, what?

Sweet Toby. Okay, so I hear what you're saying. I understand your logic, but there's several holes in your logic. Um, number one, an emergency fund for those who are new to this. We suggest uh the

order of events with your finances are

first you just set a quick $1,000 aside.

Uh then you pay off all of your debt.

That's baby step two, all of your debt except your mortgage. And then baby step three. Yeah, you save up 3 to six months of an emergency fund. After that, you start investing. So that's what Toby is talking about. Um, Toby, the problem is,

uh, emergency funds are there for more things than job loss, right? That's one of the emergencies that could come up.

Or another emergency you could have is, you know, you get in a car accident, you can't work for a while or all sorts of other things. Uh, so there's that money is there for a plethora of reasons. So that's hole number one in your reasoning. The other idea is, well, if something does pop up and you don't have an emergency fund, you're going to need money from somewhere.

And if you don't have an emergency fund, you're going to do one of two things. You're either going to unplug your investments, which if you do that, that's to the tune of taxes and fees and all of this, or you're going to turn around and take out debt. So, you're not setting yourself up to win. The reason that we teach the baby steps in the order that we teach them is because it's a system.

And systems build on one thing after another in order for the system to function properly. So I'm not just talking to Toby right now. I'm talking to anybody who thinks that they can kind of hack the baby steps and switch them around to suit their order. When you switch the baby steps around, they don't work anymore >> because you have to have the foundation in order to start building the wealth the correct way.

And so no, Toby, I would not do that. I would do your emergency fund first.

>> I'm just still confused at the two jobs.

I'm like, this is one of those situations. He calls in and goes, "Hey, I lost both jobs cuz I found out I was two times." >> Right. Right. How can you work two full-time jobs effectively? That's a question for another day. >> I don't Are you sleeping? I don't know.

You circular breathing around the clock.

>> I don't know. So, sounds like >> And you don't have a I mean, you're not God, so you can't just push all of your emergencies to when you're retired.

That's not how it works. So, like this idea, you're going to get the emergency fund later. The emergencies are going to come before you're ready for it at this point. >> Always.

They always do. >> I would pause investing and just stack up cash for three months. Keep it in high yield savings. >> You'll do it so fast.

>> Don't invest that money. Keep it liquid and you'll sleep better at night if you're sleeping at all. Toby, we don't know. >> No, he's not sleeping.

He's >> He's left us with more questions than answers. >> Android. He's He's >> Goodness gra.

>> The AI Toby. That's sketchy. All right, Stephanie is up next in Louisville, Kentucky. What's going on, Stephanie?

>> Hi, Jaden George. Um, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, >> my question is, so we just finished

babys number three, me and my husband.

Um, I went into my 401k contribution to

bump that up to 15%.

um while we were planning out our budget and we immediately got like bummed out because it wiped out all of our extra

cash that we were planning on maybe kind of increasing our spending or >> having a little extra money to throw at the house or save up for a new mom van

because I'm currently driving a 2005

Honda Odyssey with only one working sliding door. >> Um so that's where we're at right now.

We're kind of bummed and I don't know where else to go cuz I don't think we really live outside our mean.

>> What are your total expenses versus your take-home pay?

>> Uh our take-home pay is about well

pre-tax it's 3,800 after taxes it's like

3,200. >> Okay. >> Um so then we've got like >> how much is your mortgage? I guess the 401 it's about or that's the one thing that I think we might be able to have wiggle room on. Our mortgage is 1,500

but it's a 30-year and um yeah, it's about 20% I think of

our pre-tax.

>> Well, that's where >> I guess that's where your problem is.

>> Is your monthly take-home pay 3,200 or is that bi-weekly?

>> Oh, that's bi-weekly. >> Oh, okay. I was about to say Well, there you have it. You about gave us a heart attack over here. We were like, uh, that's all of the problem right there.

Okay. So, 6,400. Is that after the

retirement contributions are taken out?

>> The 7700 is our before tax um monthly

income. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm just trying to figure out how much margin is really there after the 15% and healthcare premiums.

All of that comes out and you're saying, "Hey, we got nothing left at that point." >> Yeah. Are you guys do you do 10% tithe or do you do a higher percentage of giving? What's your giving look like?

>> Um our giving is about like 5%.

>> Okay. So >> 401k is at like 15.

>> Taxes I guess are another 15. The

mortgage is 20. Groceries is 10. Eating

out is about five.

>> Do you have daycare? Anybody in daycare?

>> No. Health insurance is about eight. No, we don't have any daycare. We have diapers and I mean all the normal things. Oil changes and home maintenance. And >> do you have a bunch of sinking funds?

>> No, we have I guess we have a Christmas budget we had to bump up recently.

That's 200 per month, >> but that's just so we can be prepared for Christmas. >> The reason I ask is sometimes a bunch of scing funds can kind of drain off margin um >> if you're have them set year round and you're just doing a little bit but you're doing a bunch of them. I mean, I'd want to take a look at your budget because obviously, yeah, mortgage should be no more than 25%. Um, 15% for

investing, 10% giving. That's 50. That's half gone right there. So, I'm wondering how much those all those other little odds and ends that are eating into this and how necess how how necessary they

are at the current amounts. And that's what you're going to have to go through with a fine tooth comb. There are some things uh time of life that can really play into it like if you have kids in daycare or kids in private school things like that can really eat into that margin after 15% but I don't hear that here. So, I think it's just a bunch of like death by a thousand cuts >> because if you guys are bringing home about 6,400 and the mortgage is 1,500, well, there should be $5,000 disappearing somewhere.

Well, now that's 12 grand a year towards this minivan goal. Mhm. What do you spend on food every month?

>> Uh groceries is about 200 a week, so 800

a month. And then eating out is about a hundred a week, so it's like 1,200 total. >> That's not bad. Um

anything else we should know about? I mean, you could p you could squeeze some of that. You're a family of four, though, right?

>> Uh five. Yes. >> Oh, yes. Groceries, food is good.

>> Yeah. Like you said, I don't think anything's out of control here. I would also reshop your insurance and see if you can save. That's one of those weird areas where you're like, "Oh, we've had whatever, you know, for 20 years and we just never looked into it." And so I would um jump on ramies.com and start reshopping your insurance cuz that's somewhere you could shave off hundreds just overnight just by realizing we've been overpaying.

>> And on top of that, there might be a season where you guys need to increase your income to save up for this van or increase the income if your lifestyle is just way up here. We need our income to match it. And so, one of us or both of us need to work a little more, get that promotion, start scaling up in our career. I think both of those are going to help you long term and both should happen.

But right now, the thing you can do tonight is start going through that budget, going through every transaction, every bank statement going, where can we do better >> and I think that will help you find some margin right now. But >> you're doing all the right things. the money's going to the right places, but I agree there should be a little bit more to save up for that car upgrade, to put money away for college, to pay off the house early. So, I hope you guys will get there in due time.

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What's going on, Kevin?

>> Hey, guys. Um, I'm just uh wondering a little bit of a moral financial question. Um, if do I uh morally uh owe

my dad's girlfriend uh money from his estate? Okay. >> There is so much context needed.

>> Your dad's girlfriend. Tell us more.

>> Well, number one, did you borrow money from your dad's girlfriend?

>> I did not. >> So, why would you owe him money?

>> Well, they've been together for quite some time, a little bit over 20 years uh now. And, uh, he passed away about two months ago. >> Um, and they were living together at the time. And now um her uh her daughter is

now pressuring uh family members on my

side uh to somehow come together and

financially split uh the money from his

uh from his estate once we get it uh and give it >> Why are you getting it? Did it all go to you? >> No. So it goes to uh me, my brother, and

uh and my halfsister. Um they he did uh

pass away unexpectingly uh without a will. Um and they were never married.

>> Okay. So I was gonna ask what was there a will that said it went to you or the courts just decided this?

>> No, it's there was no will. Uh and the the money will be split between uh me uh

my brother and my sister. >> And how long was he with the girlfriend?

>> Uh just just north of 20 years. 22 23

years something like that. >> And they lived together. their did were their lives combined as though they were married >> basically. Yeah. >> And the daughter is that your dad's daughter or that's the girlfriend's daughter from another relationship?

>> Correct. Yes. >> Oo, that's messy. Boy, oh boy. What does

she want? >> Yeah. What was his wishes? Did he have a will? Like your name was on everything legally? >> Uh, no. There was no will. Actually, yeah. No. >> So, it's just a next of kin thing. The government just goes, "All right, give it to the kids." >> What? What are they requesting? Uh what's the girlfriend requesting? And what's her attitude? Like what's her demeanor been?

>> Well, it's it's more her daughter is requesting. It's not necessarily her.

>> She's trying to fight on behalf of her mom to go, "Mom, you're owed something. You were with this guy 20 years. This is crazy." >> How old is the daughter?

>> Uh just over 30. 30. 31.

>> And what's her Tell me about her. if you know anything. Is she doing okay financially or does this have the ability of like a lever that she's pulling to try to get something?

>> No, she's she's not financially uh financially set. Um she um lives with

her boyfriend. They have uh they actually have a baby on the way. Um they

are just kind of living their lives. And I mean I I can understand where they're coming from with trying to get uh money back into her. Um, and they're only really pressuring uh my youngest sister,

my half sister. They're only pressuring her. They they won't come and talk to me. >> What What are they What are they asking for specifically?

>> They're they're basically asking for her to either split and or give up uh her

portion of the >> give up. What is the rationale for her giving up her share? uh because uh

because her mom put all this time and

money into the the house basically.

>> Okay. My dad >> is the house split amongst the three of you now. >> Uh whatever we have to sell the house.

So whatever whatever we have on top of that basically once all the debt gets paid. Um once the house gets paid off once the debt gets paid. >> So the girlfriend has to move out. The girlfriend has to move out so you can sell the house. Is that right? or she wasn't living there >> among among other things. Yeah. So, uh I I I was actually so I was renting a

house that my grandmother owned. Um and

since uh since they had since we had we

found out we have to sell the house, um they all needed a place to to live. So, I packed up me and my family and went

and rented a different house so that way they can move into that house. paid for.

That's that's my grandmother's own house for like 55 years. So, she's owned that house and that way they can all have a place to live >> and that way they're not, you know, struggling to jump around and find a place to live. It's my grandmother, uh, her and brother or brother and a step

brother. Yeah. So, it was just a decision me and my me and my wife made.

>> Let me Can I recap that and make sure I understood it? So you were living in your grandmother's paid for house with your family and you said I'll leave that house. So my dad's girlfriend and

daughter can move in there free and clear, right? >> Well, it's my So it was my my it was all basically all the people that lived at my dad's house. So it was my grandmother who had just moved in in February. Um

>> her uh his his girlfriend. I have a stepbrother which is her son.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Um and then my full brother. Okay. So clearly they all have a place to live.

>> So the girlfriend and the daughter are not displaced is what I'm saying. They're taken care of. Cuz my my thought the one thing I did wonder about is like, okay, she's been living with this man for 20 years. It does feel like the rug's being pulled under her out from under her. She has to move out of the house. She doesn't have a place to go and she doesn't have any money. Right.

So it does make me feel better that she's got a place to live indefinitely.

She's not on the streets. >> She's not on the streets. >> And this is in Pennsylvania. All of this. >> Correct. and the and the the the if if there's a silver lining to this, it's that I mean they move into a house that is paid for. There's no rent. There's no mortgage. There's no there's basically living. >> Who pays the taxes?

>> Who pays the taxes? >> My grandmother will be paying the taxes.

>> Okay. So, >> u but um but but rent from the other three people that are living in the house will pay for their taxes.

>> Great. Okay. Great. And does does girlfriend have to pay rent?

I don't know their uh financial the way

Hazo they're handling that house. Okay.

Right now. >> And did she have to I I I'm just trying to understand when she was living with your dad, did she pay or did he pay for

everything or you don't know?

>> Uh so they he basically paid for

everything. She did work. Um she really only worked to so that way they can have insurance because he didn't have insurance for his company. So he basically held everything financial down.

She kind of only worked enough to pay for insurance. Okay. >> I don't think that you guys are on the hook to do anything here. This is what happens when you don't have a will.

This is what happens when you don't estate plan >> when you don't get married and have a house to get married to. So, there's a lot of things that went wrong here. And it's very complicated. But morally, legally, ethically, I don't think you owe anything.

And here's the problem. If you guys do give them a dollar, they're going to come at you for the next dollar and the next $100. And so, it's going to open a door. And I just would keep that door closed personally.

Mhm.

>> Yeah, that's what I was I was on the phone with my uh my youngest sister uh today just kind of going over and explaining that to her, but I just kind of wanted to get a little bit of a a second opinion. >> Well, there was never a commitment. So, and and that's what I'm going to base my answer on anyway is if you want a commitment to getting money out of a

will, then you have to start with a commitment through marriage. And so that I'm going to keep that same through line of a commitment was never made and therefore a commitment does not have to be fulfilled. Um, and that's kind of some people might be like, well, dang, Jay. Like the woman was living there for 20 years. And I get that. I hate that.

For me, being okay with it is the fact that y'all didn't displace her. You made sure she has a place to live.

>> She's she's taking she's okay on that end. And my other part is she had a role

to play in this, too. It wasn't just that your dad left her without anything.

She also could have said, "Hey, I'm here. I've been with you, you know, do you have a will? Is everything taken care of?" So, both >> for 20 years to not even think about this is pretty pretty wild behavior. And so, she put herself in a very risky position and now is, you know, is reaping the consequences of that.

But under from what I've seen under Pennsylvania law, she has no right to any of this just as a girlfriend. She's an unrelated person in this and it's going to go to the legal error. So, I would consult a lawyer if you want to cover your bases.

But you did nothing to cause this. And I don't think it's your problem to solve either. >> Yeah. >> So, so sorry you're going through this.

I mean, >> goodness. If I'm you, I'm like, lesson learned. I don't want to put my family in the situation. Let me simplify and not intertwine family finances and non-family and are we or aren't we? Just keep things very, very clear.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Marcus is in Columbus, Ohio. Marcus, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. >> What's going on today?

>> So, I have a bit of a a question uh around whole life insurance. uh something that I know um some there's a lot of opinions out there about and I'm considering a whole life policy in addition to uh a term life policy and I

have a bit of a unique case in the reason why I'm considering it and I'm curious to get your thoughts and opinions on it. >> Okay. Yeah. What's brought you to this point where you think you need it?

>> So just a little background on myself.

I'm uh so I'm 39 and and uh I just

started consulting a year ago. Uh I'm married. My wife isn't working but she's helping out a little bit but she's priority is uh managing our two kids three and five. Um so considering two policies, the term life um being 40 and then between now and 60 having that term

life insurance there available um in

case anything happens. and then looking at a whole life um in terms of being

able to access a certain amount of dollars now, a certain dollars between

now and 60 to where I can't touch a lot of the investments. Um so >> what do you need access to the money for? I'm confused. So, so the thought is

that um I have, you know, so $10,000 I'm

considering putting in to a policy. If I was to need a certain amount of money between, you know, now and and 60 or

towards cars or or whatever expenses may come across, I want to be able to have access to my own money um and also be

able to kind of still have it grow um separate from >> You can do that in a savings account.

>> Yeah. Or you could invest or an investment account. Yeah. >> So, why not just have your own emergency fund or syncing fund or even side investment account if you're trying to build wealth for the future? Why do it inside of an super expensive whole life policy where you make someone rich while you stay broke? >> Yeah. With a bad rate of return.

>> So, the return um is what I was curious

about is the return. So, the return being low and of course a savings having

you know barely anything. So not looking for a an investment on these dollars,

but something that I can actually So the

idea with the whole life is that you could borrow against uh the the dollars that you put in. >> And so with that thought, I was wondering if I was to put in dollar, you know, say $10,000 into this and be able to kind of continue contributing to it and have the benefit of borrowing back to myself. >> Why do you need to borrow back to yourself? >> But do you not s That sounds insane. Why not just take money out of your savings and replenish it? That's the same thing without interest that you're paying.

>> Yeah. Or use the $10,000 that you started with for whatever it was that you needed. >> So, if the $10,000 was to use to pay off, say, a car or some something like that or to pay off whatever expenses, then it goes away. >> Not if you invest it.

>> What if you invested in it?

>> Let's just pretend. Let forget the baby steps. What baby step you're on right now. Let's say you have $10,000 and you say, "I want this to continue on for me." Yeah, I probably won't put it in a high yield because the rate of return is not enough to make it grow at the rate that I'd like.

So, you say, "Okay, what if I just drop it in an index fund?" You know, that's got an average annualized rate of return between 10 to 12% if I invested in good growth stock mutual funds or if I do just a regular index fund, I'll get that, right? So, I drop it in there and I say, "Okay, I'm going to let that grow." Uh, yeah, I wouldn't suggest putting it there unless you're going to keep it there five years or more, but we're talking investments, right? So, that's across the board.

that's inside of life insurance that has a poor rate of return? Why would I why would I choose something with a lower rate of return if that's the point?

>> So, yeah. So, the the the poor rate of return is what I'm thinking about here.

So, I have investments. I have other, you know, Roths and and other accounts that I'm investing in and I get that poor rate of return piece.

>> Yeah. >> So, my thought here is I could keep it.

Yeah, of course. In a savings and access it when I need it and try to replenish it. I'm probably not going to be able to replenish it as fast to $10,000. So,

that's why I was considering is there a place to access money as I need it, but still keep it there as accessible. And >> yeah, you want to borrow it as as debt,

>> right? Right. as my own debt.

>> And I'm saying why why are we having to do that? Why are we having to make things complex >> if es especially if you're not saying

Jade here's what I need the money for?

You don't even have an idea of what you're going to use the money for.

>> So why are we making it complex in that way? >> So the idea is that I'll always So right now I am consulting.

So, I'm I'm building a business and so

there's not kind of, you know, that that constant consistent income.

>> Are you doing that full-time or do you have a full-time job? >> Full time. >> And how much are you making?

>> 100,000. >> Oh, nice. >> As a base and growing job >> and growing from there. And >> what kind of business is it? What kind of consulting?

>> Energy consulting. >> Very cool. How where did this whole life idea even come into your brain? because this feels like something somebody sold you on like a friend called you up.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, no, I've considered it uh before, but I wanted to get more thoughts on it outside of just kind writing it off. So, I want to get more thoughts on understanding because it's not that I want to invest in it for as an investment. So, I get that it's not going to be, you know, an investment case, but being able to access my own

money and then pay and then build it as my own bank. So, I've done, you know, zero interest credit cards. I've moved money as I needed it responsibly and I've kept my credit score above 700. So I've I've operated responsibly with my money, but I'm saying is there a vehicle I can use that allows me to access it as

I need it as I grow my business.

>> Yeah, we've told you Marcus and here's here's the thing. You are playing you're playing a different game. You're in the the financial maze rat race of going I have a good credit score. I can borrow money. I do the 0% cards. I've just never met somebody who is wealthy and successful who plays all of this game.

And wealthy people just have their own bank in the ter in the in the way of savings. So just build up an emergency fund and if you need money outside of that, you can build up a syncing fund with your amazing income. And so I don't think you need to play a scenario out where you need to borrow from yourself and pay yourself back with interest for some kind of benefit.

>> Yeah. So you said the what's the other one that you said a savings because I thought about this as well. You know the s just have a savings and you know build it up that way but you said another syncing fund. Was that >> so high yield savings account is great for liquid money you might need in the next couple of years right? So that's going to be your emergency fund you're saving up for a car whatever it may be.

Anything that's beyond four, fiveyear timeline or horizon, you could invest.

Now, you could invest in retirement. And if you want to access it earlier, you can invest outside of retirement just using an index fund in a brokerage account, but you don't need to do that through an insurance policy. It's the most expensive and stupid way to do it.

And the only people who advocate for it are the people who sell it. >> And you're limited on what you can invest in.

>> So, that's what I was trying to get at. Who who talked you into this? Cuz this is not something that's common sense.

Common sense would say have a savings account if you need money. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and I wouldn't necessarily I've been talked into it.

This is me exploring it. I've looked at, you know, I want to I wanted to hear it out. And so this is this is the opinion that I'm looking for is is is what are the, you know, the supports cuz the three that I've heard from your show is, you know, you're losing money the first three years. I get that.

And then lower death benefit for dollar and then the low return on investment. So the the those I get that. >> Do you have life insurance right now at all? Yeah, he has term.

>> I don't I thought you did. >> You said you were looking at >> the one that I'm looking at. I'm setting up that in the process of >> insurance is made for one thing to protect your income. That is the reason for life insurance.

We don't use it as an investment. I would get term life today. I would stop fooling with it cuz if something happens to you tomorrow, your family's in a real lurch, man. Get it today.

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All

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right, Jade, let's talk about real estate. Do it. Buying or selling a home is a big deal. With all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. So, let's make the trends easy to understand. Median home prices dipped a bit last month to about 426 grand, a typical season shift as we head into the fall. So, buyers have more options and negotiating power. Sellers may face more competition. And maybe in your area, the houses could be sitting a little longer.

Mortgage rates dipped slightly to 5 and a half% in September, giving some buyers breathing room. But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when you hope rates drop. That's called timing the market and it's risky. So to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Joe is in Minneapolis. Joe, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, how's it going? >> Great. How are you?

>> Great. Better than I deserve. I love it.

That's what we like to hear.

>> What's up? >> Yeah. So, I um I was wondering I'm in

baby step, too. Um and I was wondering if I can go on a trip like a like a trip for Christmas to see family um living I

got family in Hawaii. Um and it's I don't know if I'd call it vacation. I mean, it kind of is, but it's like also like just to visit family. I mean, my mom lives out there, so and my my nephews and nieces. Um, >> that's my main question. >> It's just you.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm a single single guy.

So, >> what's it cost to go?

>> I'm thinking like I've seen tickets like I've gotten tickets uh for like 500 round trip, but around that time probably be like maybe 7800. Um, so I'm

thinking like cap the trip at like a grand. >> Um, and I've been Ubering uh on the

side. Mhm. >> Uh during the day I work as a quality engineer. Um I make I make make 90 but I

got like 20 some thousand in debt but I've been on the side to like kind of like >> get out of that faster.

>> Um >> what are you making from that >> six eight months?

>> Um well I've been trying to figure that out. I I'm I'm thinking like 300 in my pocket a

week is like a good target, but then I'm trying to hit like 500 a week if I can

to like >> get my uh baby step two and three done by next May. But I'll definitely get out of debt by next May, though. So, >> I mean, so you're you're Did I hear you say you're earning 90,000 from your day job?

>> Yeah. >> And the debt is 20,000?

>> Like 23? Yeah. >> 23. I I I feel like you could go faster

than that, but maybe And it's just you.

What's your When you get your check every single month, how much is it?

>> Um, it's like after my I guess my

benefit stuff, it's like 20

uh 20 25 >> 25 >> per check. So, it's five grand a month.

>> Are you investing?

>> No.

I think like it's like close couple hundred goes to uh to like benefit stuff or insurance or whatever, but >> uh it's I think it's like across the year it's like uh 2,600 per check.

>> Okay. >> The whole year. >> And then um Okay, great. And then you

did the $300 per week. How much do you pay for rent?

>> I feel like a lot. I pay like 15,600

for rent utilities. So >> Okay. Are you on a budget?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've been trying to kill things in my spending so that I can be like not Ramsayish, but like really doing this. Um, so I I'm like

>> I feel like I sort of like probably got a failing grade the last couple months, but this month I feel like I'm more like on track like serious about like not

just kind of doing it. So, uh, you know,

doing it. >> That's what I was going to ask. When did you start I what I'm trying to understand is how serious you are about this. Did you just get serious this month and you're like, "All right, I'm doing it." Or have you been kind of lolly gagging for like six months and now you're finally like, "Okay, I'm doing it." Because here's here's where I'm struggling.

And George, you can chime in. On the one hand, I'm like, you're here all by yourself. I'm not going to tell you to spend Christmas alone. I kind of feel bad about that.

Um, >> but I am interested in your demeanor on this debt and what your patterns have been and I if if a pattern of yours has

been I'm going to get serious about my debt and then something that looks good to you comes up and you stop and you take your foot off the gas. If that's a pattern for you, I don't want to say yes to that.

>> Yeah. Like it it it's like there's a lot of tempting things like like my friends my friend is just always like they just like come out of the woodwork. I'm like, I didn't know all these friends I want to go out to eat all the time, you know? So, >> do you have friends locally that you can spend Christmas with that you would love to spend Christmas with?

>> Um, I mean, I have a lot of church friends, but like a lot of them are older than me because and which I think is pretty cool because they're pretty wise folks, but >> I mean uh I mean I don't know if I'll hang like spend Christmas with them or nothing, but I got a lot of church friends and community though. Do do you have anybody Do you know anybody who's done this Ramsey plan that you're close to?

>> Um, no I haven't. I haven't found

anybody. >> And how old are you, Joe? >> I know maybe one guy at church that um

I'm I'm 30. >> You're 30? Okay.

>> Yeah, >> man. I'm on I'm on the fence here. I'm not super convinced that this is like a one and done. I think this is one of many things that are going to trip you up on this debtfree journey and you make a lot of money.

>> I'm just I just feel like I would be okay with you missing one Christmas.

We're not saying never have fun again, but if you didn't go I've I've done this here where I was an orphan one Christmas and some friends here said, "Hey, just come over for a Christmas dinner." And I go hang with them and that way I'm not alone and I also didn't blow a thousand bucks to go, you know, on a on a vacation. I also listen people are going

to we sound like the biggest Scrooges. I also I'm going to tell you what else is starting to play into my my thoughts here. If you were like and I'm not saying that this is a great idea. If you were like 23, I'd be like, "Oh man, this guy's got to go home for Christmas, but I'm like you're 30. You're kind of in your own life. You don't >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you Have you missed a Christmas yet?" Like, are you a I go home for Christmas every single year, no matter what?

>> No. No. I mean, I um I really want to

honestly like a big part is I want to go see my nephews and nieces and there's like multiple of them that are like like five and younger and they're just like so much fun and like >> when was the last time you saw him? >> Oh, Uncle >> and they're like uh I've seen them I seen them like uh I think I seen them >> I think recently. I can't crap. My my memor is terrible, but I think like this year.

>> Okay. >> Well, here's my thing.

>> Yeah, I was kind of thinking about that.

>> So that's my heart behind it. It's not so Joe has a a sad Christmas. It's so Joe gets debtree faster and then does this thing completely debtree with no guilt, no shame, no debt to come back to and you're a free man come summertime.

And then you could spend three weeks there. >> Yeah. >> Have a great time.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I've done that a few times.

It's pretty pretty nice. And >> Yeah. Because the longer you stay in Hawaii, the more money you spend. I'm guessing it's like 150 bucks a day just to live in Hawaii. You just leave the house and spend that. >> I I I would even Or let me do Let me add this one to the mix. It's October,

so you have two months and a week. I

would give yourself a challenge since you're driving Uber, too. I'd say I have to have X amount of dollars of debt paid off if I'm going to take this trip.

>> I have to have I like the compromise.

>> I have to have uh 12, you know, let's

see, your rent is 1,600. Uh I I try to

replace my rent >> and side hustles.

>> That's what I try to do.

>> And I would say, okay, that's the goal.

Do you see what I'm saying? Then you're you're getting the both the best of both worlds. So, you're getting to be there with your family for Christmas, but you're also really going hard and you're giving yourself a clear goal so that you're not kind of like, I get to go. I can kind of pull my foot off gas. I would do that. I would challenge yourself to have like, I don't know, the

majority of this paid off. I would go crazy. I'd be like, I'm going to pay off like 12 or $15,000 of this debt really,

really fast. I'm going to My goal is put $5,000 on it November, $5,000 in December, and then another 2,000.

>> Do it. I like this plan, Joe. I like the compromise. I just I think we just wanted to feel some fire from Joe.

>> Just get crazy with it. >> Just not hot enough. It's just lukewarm right now and looking for the next trip.

But uh I'm rooting for you, man. Let us know if you end up going. We want to know where are they now. >> Mhm.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. On the debt-free stage, we have the pleasure of speaking with Jeff and Danielle. How are you guys? >> We're great. >> We're doing great. >> Thanks for making the trip to be here. Where are you from? >> Tucson, Arizona. >> Thanks for having us. >> Lovely. Okay. How much debt did you pay off? >> $329,000.

>> Wow. >> That'll do. And how long did that take?

>> Uh about 12 years. >> 12 years. >> Wow. Quite the journey. And what was the range of income over 12 years? >> Uh we started at 155 and last year was 327. >> Wow. Nice jump. What do you guys do for work? I'm a pilot. I work for a big company out in Memphis with a bunch of purple tails. >> Oh, yeah. I've seen those. And uh previous Sorry. And I'm an office manager for a concierge physician's office. >> Okay. >> Awesome. >> I'm getting a sense here about this 329.

>> I like it. Okay. Tell us what kind of debt was the 329. >> Now 33,000 was our truck, which we still have >> and uh the rest was our house.

>> I knew it. I knew it.

>> So almost 300 grand on that mortgage.

And did you guys just plow through the truck and then go, you know what, we're pretty good at this debt payoff thing. What if we just kept going? What was this journey like? >> We had a lot of life between, you know, 12 years. We uh financed with their scholarships and their hard work. Three kids through college, debtree. >> Oh my goodness. Yeah. >> All useful degrees.

>> You raised some great kids along the way. That's that's no easy feat.

>> Yeah. We just kept rolling, walking through the baby steps. >> What got you connected to the Ramsay plan? Well, about five years before we

actually started the plan, um I brought the idea to Jeff and at that time I was a stay-at-home mom and our income just

perhaps didn't support it in his eyes.

So, um I think his suggestion was we should just stop buying stuff and uh >> it's a good suggestion. >> Five years later, it um he came to me with the idea. >> So, then it was right. >> Wow. >> Then it was the right time. >> So, this was like early 2000s.

>> Uh probably. Yeah. Like maybe 2008 or so

the first time I brought it up. Yeah.

>> You've heard of you've heard of dinks, right? Dual income.

>> We were oinks, one income, numerous kids. >> Oh my goodness. So you were you were feeling the stress. You heard about Dave. And then 5 years into this thing, you go, I think we know what we need to do. >> Yeah. You know what our big problem is?

We we we've been in our house a long time, so it was appreciating. So we kept refinancing it. >> You know, we bought the American way. We bought a rental property, you know, and vehicles.

And we did put in a really nice pool and a yard. >> You know, our house isn't like the gathering place for our our family. So, >> that's awesome. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> Wow. And so, what was the what was the journey like when you got started? Was it a hard shift?

>> Um, we moved through uh two and three relatively quickly. And then we were on track to pay it off by my 60th birthday, which is about a year and a half. And fortunately, my parents uh just passed away in May and June.

>> Kick it over the edge. Yeah. So, how much of this was the inheritance that helped you finish? >> Uh, just 64,000 or so. Was it, you know,

like I said, we were on track to do it in about a year and a half from now. >> Wow. Well, sorry for your loss, but what a what a legacy to leave.

>> 93 years old. >> It's like they were looking down going, "We got you. We're proud of you." >> Y, how's it feel?

>> Kind of kind of unreal still. Um, >> it's only been a couple months. Yeah, >> we're still trying to get used to, you know, >> not having a house payment and >> all that money sitting in the checking account. >> What do we do with that?

>> It's a good problem to have. I'm sure the kids are like, I think we have some ideas. We got some trips we'd love for you to take us on. >> Yeah.

Are you going to do anything to celebrate? >> Yeah.

>> It does, man. >> So, uh when it starts getting hot in 27, we're going to get a newer camper and we're going to go north to Idaho, across to Maine, and then down the east coast and back home. hit all the states that I've never been in. So, >> yeah.

So, I'll still be going to work, you know, I'll I'll jump seat to work from wherever she's at and >> Sure. >> she'll hang out and volunteer at the Humane Society or >> or go see the kids or whatever. >> And I have a sinking fund going to um go to dog training school. >> Oh, wow.

That's one of my passions. So, when I can hang up the full-time job, that's my place. >> The encore career. Can you train my French bulldogs?

>> I will do. You could be >> You can You're like Caesar Milan in my book.

>> You guys are an inspiration. Were the kids watching this whole time? cuz you got grown kids seeing this journey. Was that weird to bring them into it?

>> Well, they were they were in high school, you know, when we started. So, >> and they've been uh Yeah, they I mean Dave Ramsey might be a swear word and invoke an eye roll around our house for time. >> Do they take to it like are they like, "Hey, we want to live debtree now." Or are they like, "Gh, gross." No, they're all on board. >> Well, they're here now, so it would be awkward if they're used cars and everything. Yeah. >> Wow. Wow. >> And how old are the kids?

>> Our oldest is 26. He's married and in the Air Force, so he couldn't be here.

Um, then our next son is Andrew. He's 25 and our daughter is 21.

>> Wow. >> Way to go. >> And they're looking at their parents like, "That's pretty cool that my parents did this." >> Well, many Americans out there hang on to their mortgages until they're dying breath and then leave their kids with a mess to deal with. And >> oh my goodness.

>> Was anyone around you doing any sort of plan like this or were you kind of on an island? >> Um, we were each supported each other, but we hosted FPU. That's when we went through it at our house with some family and neighbors from church and then I I hosted it at uh I used to work for the Department of Homeland Security.

>> Holy smokes. That's awesome. >> Yeah, it was good. Yeah. >> Okay. So, what's the house worth?

>> 600,000. >> Woo. And what do you guys have in like the retirement nest eggs combined? Go ahead. >> 1.7. >> Hey. Okay. Way to go.

>> Okay. So, well beyond Baby Steps Millionaires. You guys were there a long time ago. Yeah.

Yeah. >> But now this just adds to it with no payment. >> So, what's the baby step uh look like for you guys? What are you looking forward to doing across spending, saving, giving?

>> All the above. >> Yes. >> Um uh I'm going to build an airplane in my garage. >> So, I've got the wing kit or it comes in kits.

I've got >> How big is your garage? >> It's a good size garage.

>> That's exciting. So, she's going to be dog training. You're going to be building airplanes >> and and we hope to be real generous with our grandkids in terms of their education when that time comes.

>> Oh, that's fantastic.

>> Well, you guys are who I want to be when I grow up. >> Very inspired by your story. What would you tell people the key to becoming debtree is?

>> Eye on the prize. >> Yeah. >> It just it can be a long journey as you see. It took us 12 years. I think most of your families pay off their mortgage in about seven, but >> we started the path just in time to help kids get through school and and life happens. So, I would say give yourself a little bit of grace, too, because there are going to be bumps in the road. Just rely on your partner >> and stick with the plan.

>> You know, the plan works, you know.

>> Wow, that's fantastic. Well, I'm honored you guys decided to join us today. We've got some parting gifts for you. Two every dollar premium subscription. So, you can use those. You can give them to maybe one of the kids who's on the journey. >> Uh it's up to you what you do with that.

Okay. Thank you. >> As our way of saying thank you for being out here. Awesome. >> All right. I'm excited for this one. You guys ready? >> I think we're ready. >> All right. It's Jeff and Danielle.

$329,000 paid off the truck. And then they kept plowing through the mortgage in 12 years, making 155 all the way up to $327,000.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

W.

>> Oh, that warms my heart.

>> Never gets old. >> Yeah, that's awesome. >> And I love awesome. >> I love that this is a couple who went, "Hey, this isn't going to happen tomorrow, but if we're just focused on this goal, it's going to happen within a decade.

We're going to be around in a decade. So, do we want to be debtree or do we want to keep refinancing as the offers keep coming in, we can get a bigger line of credit on the house?" Like all of it's crazy how much will come at you >> during the steps on the financial journey of people trying to come at your money and come at your equity and move you backwards. Yes.

>> That's right. That's right. And that eventually that's exactly what they did.

I mean consider the fact that the average American mortgage is a 30-year mortgage and then we say, "Hey, be different. Get a 15-year." And then to still turn around and pay that off in 12, I think is >> I think that's great. I think if you can pay off a mortgage in 12 years, that is a win in life. That is a win in my book.

And all it takes is you doing a little bit, just a little bit extra, right?

This is not you being intense intense.

This is just intentionality. I have it a little bit of extra money. I'm going to throw it on here. Maybe it's an extra half payment. Maybe it's an extra full payment. Maybe it's once a quarter.

Maybe it's every month. You get to decide what that looks like. And before you know it, you're standing where they are. >> Yeah.

If you're in their shoes, you're in that 456 territory. I encourage you guys jump on ramsolutions.com. Use our mortgage payoff calculator. We'll put it in the show notes.

And you'll be shocked at how just an extra payment a year makes a difference. How much interest it saves you, how much closer it gets you to freedom. And then what I found is it gets addictive. And you go, what if we did two payments?

What if we did a,000 extra a month? What could that do?

And that level of focus gets you debtree really fast. Baby steppers do it on average in about seven years. And the average millionaire on our millionaire study, 10 years. >> Wow. So let that be your your goal post to go can I do this within 7 to 10 years can we be completely debtree and again if you give yourself some grace maybe it takes 11 or 12 you're still so far ahead of the game >> still a win >> you can do this guys and they're living proof [Music]

Our

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scripture of the day, Hebrews 10:34.

Let's keep a firm grip on the promises that keep us going. He always keeps his word. >> Norman Vincent Peele said, "Promises are like crying babies in a theater. They should be carried out at once." >> Hey, >> wow.

Uh, listen, >> I love that. >> Well, as a guy with a newborn in the house, let me tell you that that really speaks to me right now. >> I love that quote.

>> I can't really carry him out cuz I'm with him, you know. I do the AirPods trick though. I got noise cancellation on to keep my cortisol levels low.

>> Okay. >> When they're just I'm just like, >> you know what I do when I go on on flights? If I see that there's a mom with a baby, I'll sit next to them because I >> You're an angel. >> Well, because it's like I'm used to it.

It doesn't bother me. Yeah.

God bless. Jade's just a better person than all of us. I'm like, "How many rows can I get away from the baby?" >> No, I'll try to be nice because it it's it's not fun when you're the one with the screaming baby and you're sitting next to somebody who's so annoyed and they're so mad and you're like, I'm doing the best I can here. >> Yeah.

I'll take that over a toddler though cuz they'll be kicking that seat and I'm like, >> toddler? Yeah.

Don't be kicking my seat. All right, let's go to James in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hey, what's going on, James?

>> Oh, not much. How are you doing?

>> Better than we deserve, my friend. How can we help?

>> I'm calling uh on behalf of my parents.

My parents recently asked me to attend their financial advisor meeting with them and I'm not sure. I've been

listening to Dave Ramsey for a while and it doesn't seem like it's what Dave would recommend or what you guys would recommend. So they're they're roughly right at like half a million dollars or $475,000 and a third of that is in a annuity fund

that will once they start retire that

will start paying out x number of dollars like 10 grand or something a year. >> Yep.

>> What kind of annuity is it? Do you know?

>> Uh it's with I don't know if I can say the name. >> I mean is it like a fixed annuity, variable index? There's all kinds of types.

Yeah, I I have no no idea. I assume it's growing value of some sort. Like the the

cash value is much like 156 of it is

cash value. They pulled it out and there's like 220ome actual value in it.

>> Okay. >> I don't know if >> well in general we are not a fan of annuities. They may have a time and place. I can tell you Dave Ramsey has zero annuities. Uh they make sense for very few people. And the issue, one of

the biggest issues I have with them is they're they're expensive. They make the advisers a whole lot of money. And so that's my only fear. I'm not saying they're a bad person. They may have a reason to do this, but I have a lot my red flags go up. My spidey senses start tingling when I hear that someone's getting pushed into annuities.

Did your parents want this for a reason?

Like are they scared of market risks?

Because that's usually who's who this is for.

>> Yeah. I think I don't know that they're necessarily scared of market risk. It's more they want to be able to sustain through through their retirement.

>> Okay.

>> My mom's 62. She's not planning on retiring today. Like she's going to work a few more years and retire, but like

they want to move the whole thing into this. And it just doesn't seem it's like you have enough money in my eyes to to sustain off interest >> because they live a super super uh

within their means lifestyle.

>> Yeah. Are they in baby step seven with a paid for house? No debt.

>> Correct. Yep. >> Okay. >> James, how's your how's your financial situation?

>> Uh my wife and I are in baby step two.

We're we basically have a truck to pay off yet and that's it. So, I I love that you you're going with them on this and that they invited you to go to this meeting. Um, I would

the hard part about this is you're not where they're at yet and to offer advice in that area could could be tough unless they're asking you, James, what do you think we should do? Um, are they >> they Yes, they they definitely asked me

for advice. They asked me to come along because I've been ranting and raving to them about you guys for the past two years and how I'm excited to get debt free or my wife and I are excited to be debt free and >> and they're like well we they really weren't involved in their investment. I feel like they they received some money from my grandma when she passed and they just kind of >> took the financial advisor's word for it and said just here here's the money type. >> So if you suggested and said hey you know I came with you guys here's what I heard.

from Ramsey to get a second opinion.

This is the the people I've been getting advice from that I've been telling you about. Do you think that they would do that?

>> Yeah. And I I already recommended that to them. I said, I >> I I want to sit down with someone else.

Like I don't >> And what they say, >> not that I don't trust your advisor, but I want to get someone else's opinion type thing. >> What' they say to that?

>> And and my mom's my mom's all for it. So my my dad's not in the best health, so he's not fully fully involved with >> leaving to go meet with people, stuff like that. So >> yeah. >> So you you know, if she's open to it,

you set her up with the smart vetor, maybe you sit in on that conversation, too, if your dad's not able to sit in.

And I think that's where you take it from there. The great news is that they're open, which I think is wonderful. maybe a little too open with the other adviser, but >> yeah, I think they need to we always say don't invest in anything you don't understand. And so until they fully understand it, and I would not just trust the advisor's explanation because they're clearly going to do a good job selling them on it.

>> But I'll tell you this, fixed annuities, if that's what they're in, barely keep up with inflation. If it's variable annuities, it's one of the most expensive and complicated financial products out there. And then indexed annuities is another form.

But the key here is with that one subpar returns and super high fees and those are that's always my concern when you're trying to mix this insurance product with investment. Um so not to say there isn't a time or place for it. If they really want the guaranteed returns or the estate planning benefits and they're in baby step 7 and they have amassed a serious amount of wealth, maybe it's an option if they're super spooked by the market. I don't think that's the case here.

And so my my your Spidey senses are right. I would get a second opinion and try to advise them against this.

>> I I do not. No. I I literally got sat

down with their adviser like two weeks ago. This is the first time they actually left me into their finances or brought me into the loop and asked for my opinion on things. >> Well, that means there they also had a little bit of a red flag. >> That's right.

And so if you if you want to see them retire with dignity, I would stay away from this annuity based on what you've told me and you can jump on ramiesolutions.com and get connected with a smartvester pro that can give you that second opinion. But you're a good son, man. >> Or at the very least just leaving it as, you know, leaving it as >> broken, you know, don't fix it.

>> Yeah. If it's not already in the annuity, >> good mutual funds and all that and good, you know, equities and I wouldn't mess with it. But Diane is in Chicago up next. What's going on, Diane?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I love you guys. I've started listening to the Ramsay show about six months ago. My son actually got me hooked up with you guys and um you guys ask a lot of times about people's net worth and I understand the concept of you know assets minus liabilities, but I'm a retired police officer and I

receive a defined benefits pension and so I didn't know if that should be considered as an asset and if so how to quantify it. M you know there are some

fancy complex calculations you can do to kind of find the present and future value of your pension. So that might be one way to do it. The other way is just to figure out what is the actual cash value today.

>> Is there a lump sum? If you took a lump sum, what would it be?

>> There isn't there isn't that option.

>> Okay. So you can go online and use a pension calculator and find out what the value actually is and you can add that to your net worth. Um, the net worth is one indicator of how well you're doing financially. It doesn't present the whole picture.

And so, you can add in what you've put into the pension as a way to calculate it into your net worth and use that. >> Um, but there's no simple way to say, well, my pension is, you know, 4,000 a month and so it's going to be X added to my net worth. >> Okay?

But you can use calculations to get you an idea. The key is, are you going to be able to retire with dignity based on the income streams you have from your investments plus pension?

>> Yes, I'm currently working now. I have an encore career now. Um, and that has a

401k that I've been putting 15% into.

And between my pension and my um

investments, I I think I'm going to be fine. >> Yeah. What's your net worth without the pension?

>> 640. >> Awesome. And you still got a ways to go in the workforce?

about five years. >> Awesome. >> You're doing great, Diane. >> Yeah, I'd keep climbing. If you can get that net worth and nest egg to a million bucks plus a pension, I think we're in good shape, Diane. And you can get connected with the Smart Investor Pro to help you calculate that as well. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Until next time, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 98. It’s Time to Go Scorched Earth on Your Debt | February 3, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:46:46 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Rachel Cruz, taking calls all hour about your life and money. We have Jim who's in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi Jim.

>> Hey Jade. Hey Rachel. How are y'all >> doing? Good. How can we help today?

>> Hey. I've got kind of a weird situation that I want y'all's help navigating. Uh

I received a um a large gift of silver

from a family member and it was kind of given to me under the pretext of hey I really want you to hold on to this. I think this will increase in value. I told them that we're working baby step two and they would be like, "Oh, this is awesome. It's actually going to cover in the rest of our credit card debt, but they really want us to hold on to it." Um, and I'm trying to figure out how to navigate the situation.

>> Is it like hold it for safekeeping or it's a gift, but we don't want you to cash it in just yet? What which is it?

>> Yeah, it was more like it's a gift, we don't want you to cash it in. We think it's going to exponentially go up in value. Um, and you know, it's funny. I listened to Dave talk about, you know, not to collect rocks.

>> Well, when did they when did they say you could cash it in?

>> Um, there wasn't there was really it it

it was a it was a grandparent. So, it was really a you can hold on to this.

Um, or you can do what you want. But there was sort of a uh >> strings attached to a degree.

>> Yeah. >> Which is funny because about two days ago, silver went >> in the tank. I don't know if you I actually had a friend I was debating about with silver >> and then he texted >> he's like, "Well, not a good day for my argument." And I was like, "No, it's not. It went down." >> Um, >> well, okay. So, >> yeah. So, I I do think, you know, having

a gift with strings attached is not fair to the person receiving it because it's not really a gift at that point. there's an expectation and and I appreciate

their sentiment and I'm just wondering I mean I kind of think Jim honestly I think you're an adult and so I think you were given something and you and your

wife are you married did you say you're married? >> I am. Yeah. >> Yeah.

that you guys make a decision on on how you think it would be best used and you know is it best to to keep it because you never know or you know whatever this grandparent's saying >> or for right now in your life like this is what we're working towards to create financial stability which is ultimately what this grandparent's wanting for y'all is financial stability because they think that this is going to you know become something. Um, so yeah, at the end of the day, Jim, I mean, and I feel like it sounds harsh, but I'm like I I think that, you know, you you're an adult.

You were given a gift, and I think you guys use it as best as you best see it. What you could do is you could let the grandparents know and say, "Hey, I know that it's your desire for us to keep this. For us, it'd be better used if we sold it." Um, so if that changes whether or not you want to give it to us or not, like we're like you could put that on the table and say, "Hey, if you'd like to basically revoke your gift back knowing what we'll do with it, we'll be fine with that.

But we wanted to be upfront with that with you that we're going to we would sell it and see what they say." >> Yeah.

above board, I mean, you're fine to do what you want now, but if you really wanted to take it to the next level, >> you could give them that option.

>> The the only thing, and I don't know if this changes at all for y'all, it really only affects my baby step two by like a

month and a half to two months. How much is it worth?

>> It's It's worth about $8,000. I'm We're chucking about 6,000 a month towards credit cards and consumer debt right now. So, Um, yeah. Well, you know, got to get out of it quick. >> I know. It was good. That's amazing.

>> Yeah. Well, >> yeah. So, the the time thing again, if you if you weigh out what it's going to do to a relationship that if you really think it's going to harm something, you're like, it's not worth it. And so, for a month and a half of our sacrifice, we'll sacrifice an extra month and a half to keep this thing.

And and this sounds horrible too, Jim, but when you know this person passes, you know, and you guys look up in 10 years, I'm like, "All right, we did this to honor to honor Nana, but we are ready to let this go." Um, you know, it's not the end of the to your point, it's not going to change your life either way. It's just a principle of we're going to put our efforts and our money and our time and energy into things that we think are actually going to be worth it in the long run financially and and this commodity is not.

So, you know, >> um >> Oh, thank you. That's a good It's a good question. I mean, we know gifts should be given and for anybody who's thinking about giving a gift out there, if you're going to give a gift, give a gift. And it's okay.

I think if it's something that's like um estate planning, like a will or something like that, to have certain uh stipulations on something like that, uh that makes sense.

from a moral perspective or something like I don't want to harm my kids if they're, you know, be misbehaving in life and then I don't want to hand them a bunch of money >> because that could magnify it, you know, the things around that. But just this like kind of nitpicky, hey, I want you to do this, not that. It's like giving someone a whole life insurance policy and being like, I don't want you to cash it out. And you're like, yeah, but this is not a smart investment, >> right?

Or even the idea of, I don't know, a family member, let's say a family member struggling and you want to help with their rent, so you're not giving them cash, but you're like, I I will pay your rent for you. I just feel like there's >> it is a interesting line to walk there, Jim.

kind of more on the side of you should be able to do what you want with this.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Thank you for the call. All right.

Jessica's in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

Hi, Jessica.

Hello. Can you hear me? >> We can. What's up? >> Okay. Hello. So, uh, to sum up, we are

putting our house on the market next month, and we, our plan is to eliminate

a mortgage by downsizing.

Um, if we can buy a home in the $350 to

$400,000 range, we will eliminate a mortgage and all of our debt and it will

give us the opportunity for me to

homeschool my kids if we do that.

>> Wow. What What home the home you're in currently? Um, what equity is in it?

>> So, we are putting our house on the market at about 680,000.

is on 15 acres.

>> Um, so our big downsize would be in

land, not necessarily home size.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha. What will you make on the sale? What will you pocket?

>> So, we will pocket about 420,000

after closing costs and uh taking away

the mortgage, which is at about 215,000.

Um, so if we bought a home in the 350

to 400 range, um, >> we would have 17,000 in like education

debt slashcredit that it's all one.

>> Um, >> and so we would take that and pay that completely off. And then so we would kind of do and we already have about

75,000 in a brokerage account.

>> Great. >> That we use as our emergency fund.

>> So what's the question?

>> Um I guess if uh our head is in the

right place of doing this because it's kind of going out of order of the baby steps. Um but it would >> because you're in what way?

>> Um because we're paying off our home early. >> Oh. just kind of babysit.

>> Yeah. Well, what I would say is if you do this, obviously you're clearing your debt, >> I would uh save some money aside for a 3 to 6 months uh emergency fund, but other than that, that's it. And it really feels like it's in that brokerage account. Just pulling that out and having since it's not retirement, having some of that liquid, I think, is where you're going to want to do there.

>> Yeah. And Jessica, I I would not sell a home for $20,000 of consumer debt. So, if there's a bigger reason why, like what you said that you eliminate a mortgage so that you can homeschool your kids and stay home, that makes sense to me. But I would not make this move for 20,000 for $20,000 of consumer debt.

So, if there's a bigger reason why, which I think you said there is, then that's great. Yep. And you're not out of order necessarily. I think you're Yeah, you guys are doing awesome.

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All right, back to the phone lines we go. Charlie in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Charlie. What's going on?

>> Can you hear me? >> I can.

>> All right. Thanks for having me on today. And uh I guess uh I may have kind

of a complex question, but we'll just dive in and see what details are needed.

>> Sounds good. >> So I'm calling on behalf of my wife and I and uh we're in baby step number two.

We've been in it for a couple years now.

Um we started $254,000 worth of debt.

We're down to 145. Um but on our

snowball, our next loan is kind of a

sticky situation. So my wife, her last year of undergrad and all four years of my brother-in-law's college are consolidated into one parent

plus loan. >> Okay. >> And so we our portion of that loan,

>> it wasn't really done, right? But this is before we found Ramsay and this is all before we even got married. Um, but they consolidated it and it was like, okay, and here's your like they they took it since it was four years of his college and one year of hers. They just took the payment, divided it by five, and that's what we pay. So we pay 211 per month. >> Yeah. >> And so our we have our original balance

for my wife's loan was 25,000. That's interest included. And so we had that cash saved up, but the problem is

my mother-in-law, I think, but no, no, I don't think they're they're trying to do the PSLF program >> and get it all forgiven. And there's still like >> there's still like seven years left of that. And so we don't want that. we have the cash to get out.

Now, the problem is is that they depend on our 211 per month to make the payment. >> And I guess my question today is probably more of a relational question of how cuz you know, it's my mom or my wife's mom. So, you know, we're going to have her talk to them because I don't want to be the me son-in-law. >> Smart.

on what are some tips or something.

Maybe my wife can talk to her mom about this maybe >> because the loan is in the is in the mother's name. Correct. Your wife's name is nowhere attached to this to this loan, right? So there's Okay. >> Yeah. We we've we we double triple check and Yes. And u morally they they spit

shake that we would pay it off >> sometime and you have the money, the 25,000. The longer this loan sticks around obviously the more interest it gains. So for you it is smart to say hey if we have the money now let's knock it out. You can give them the 25,000 that you owe. It's up to them if they want to

siphon that out $211 a month or whatever that is or whatever they want to do. But what you do need to do is make sure that the same way it was a spit shake before

that you get in writing and just say, "Hey, we're giving you the entire balance of what we owe as of, you know,

February 2nd, 2026." Um, and that way no

one can come back to it and say, "Hey," and then you give it to him and say, "Hey, if you guys want to do this loan forgiveness, that's fine. But any interest that occurs, that's up to you.

We're ready to be out of this today." And I love the idea that he's that you'll be the one uh that your wife will be the one talking to the mother-in-law.

>> Yeah. I mean, that's exactly what I was going to say, Charlie, is I would sit down with them, have a check, and the writing thing is so smart. It's going to probably feel really weird, and her mom's going to be like, "This is so what are you doing?" But it's like no, I'm just going to have the date the balance of what is and then tell the mom like and hey mom listen >> I just warning that sometimes these programs not do not go the way you think it's going to go and if it's not paid off this is what the interest will be but we are not going to be on the hook for it because if it was our loan today we would be paying it off like I would overcommunicate it have it in writing >> give them the check and to yeah and to Jade's point if they really want to just keep it then it's like okay you do whatever you want with that 25,000 but we we are done And credit to your wife, too.

We take so many of these calls where there's like some communication when the child is 20 years old, you know, and then you look 15 years down the road and mom doesn't want to pay anymore or daughter's like, "No, it's not really mine." I thought, you know, it's really messy. So, the fact that you guys you guys are >> definitely above board in the sense of like you are keeping your end of the deal, you know, flawlessly. It's amazing.

>> Let's sign this together just so it's said out loud. Um, and thank you, mom.

Love you. >> And I'd even I'd even frame it up like the whole thing of getting it in writing. And by the way, I'd take screenshots of the balance and everything. Just everything. And the way I'd frame it up is, hey, you know, I don't know about you, but sometimes over time I can just forget details. And this is just for all of us. as opposed to a

I'm doing this to hold you accountable, right? Just the idea. Everybody forgets

what the balance was 2 years later.

Nobody's going to remember the exact dollars and cents. No one's going to remember exactly what was said. So, it's just an idea of we all forget details.

It's easy for this to get muddy for me for me to remember. I'd like to do this.

And that way, you're kind of putting all the onus on you and not being um just

you're not indicting them anyway. >> Yeah. pointing the finger at them. How will that how would that conversation go knowing your mother-in-law and her relationship with your wife? Like what we just laid out, how how do you see that going?

>> Well, that's the the worst part about it is that I mean I was fixing to have a follow-up question. And this might be passive aggressive, but I was wondering, you know, getting it in writing. Would do y'all think it would be okay to like get a cashier's check and get it put in the memo? Maybe.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. Yeah. And I and and honestly you asked how they would be received. I'll be honest I'm worried that it might not that it'll be bad but it'll catch them off guard just because there's a total different mindset there.

I mean, dead is just a normal way of life for them and all that. Me and my wife, we're f we are first generation Ramsay people. I mean, my side of the family, my wife's side of the family are both the same. And so, we're trying to get out of this where we can, you know, fix our family tree as y'all say.

>> Totally. Yes.

>> So, I'm afraid I'm not going to say it won't be received well, but >> you're going to look weird.

>> Yeah, it's going to be weird. >> Also, because like I said, like they firmly believe that it's going to get forgiven. Like there was a comment even made back in the summer. uh they looked up the loans and whatnot because we live we live six hours apart so we got a vacation together and we met them and they uh the the comment was even said like oh how much is left on that loan cuz we talked about paying off our debts and stuff and uh her mom pulled it up

and was like oh it looks like seven years and the brother was like well it looks like you're in debt for seven more years at least and we're just like uh no not really >> y >> but so I'm not going to say it be bad but just a it's probably gonna be it's gonna have to be like a teaching moment and that's gonna be hard because that's her mom. >> Well, well, I mean, I don't know if you do have to teach it. I think it's just I would keep it. And I know you're not the one talking, >> but yeah, I wouldn't even get into all that.

I would say, hey, you know, I was thinking back to when you pulled up that loan and me and my husband, this is her talking. Me and my husband talked about it. You know, I think we just we're ready to be done with it and we looked at the balance and based on what it is today, I think we're just ready to pay our portion off and we'll give you a cashier's check so you can put it on there. But, you know, and and you're not even talking about them.

you're really not even talking about you. You're just letting them know you want to get out and there's no detriment to them.

think at that point, as long as you know, as long as they understand it's it's at no detriment to them to pay this off, I wouldn't I mean, Rachel, I I wouldn't even get into >> the why >> the why and what you should be doing.

And >> unless they ask, you know, then you can you can elaborate. >> Less is more. Can I dive in? >> Less is more. >> Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Um, >> okay. >> Yep. So, yeah. I hope it goes well though. But yeah, keep it short and sweet. Clear.

>> We always say kindness, you know, >> to be unclear. >> To be unkind. Yep. So, be clear, which

helps with the writing. And I like it.

And I like the whole I like your advice, Jade, on >> Hey, this is for us and for our records and like what we're doing and just so I can remember because I sometimes can forget. You know what I mean? You can put that off a little bit on you. And I think that's fine. >> And it's true. And and it's also true. I mean to remember what the dollars and cents are because what I see happening in that situation is if for some reason

on down the line it doesn't get paid off. It starts to feel overwhelming. It could be easy to think well maybe they didn't pay their whole portion. Maybe I remember it being you know >> and and if you're tied in with a loan with someone else the brother's loan is in there and if he doesn't pay for a year cuz he doesn't have a job or something happens you know what I mean?

Like it just it starts to build. starts to build a lot. So, uh, Charlie, great question. And hey, great for you and your wife.

That's normal. That's what most people do. So, when you come against that and you're kind of at this intersection of like, oh my gosh, we're butting up against normal. It's going to feel weird and it might be a little awkward, but you're going to get through it and then you're going to be fine and I think you won't even think about it 6 months later and it's going to be great. So, I think it's a smart move and yeah, excited for you and your wife.

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So, one of our favorite things is hearing people share their stories of how they're winning. And we just heard this from Claire in Winston. Quote, "This is me and my husband's third month budgeting with the Every Dollar app, and I'm amazed how much money we found. We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding $3500 extra dollars in margin every month to put towards our debt.

We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off, never going back. That's amazing. And you can do this, too. You can take control of your money.

You can change your family tree and live like no one else. Go download our Every Dollar Budget app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Love to hear it. All right, Elizabeth in San Francisco, California is on the line.

>> Hi. Thank you guys so much for having me. >> You bet. How can we help?

>> Um, so my question is, how do I know if I'm heading past Gazelle intensity into

kind of the burnout space as it relates to paying off my debt?

>> Tell us more. or what are you doing that think makes you think you might be going too far?

>> Yeah. Um I first of all I did I never really learned how to budget. Um I'm a medical

doctor so I make good money but I just got out of residency and I I have like about $600,000 worth of student loan debt and plus consumer debt. Um, and

knowing that I don't want to be in this

space of paying debt forever. Like I fully bought into the baby steps. I

believe in the biblical principle. It's just I'm finding that when I get to the end of my paycheck and I'm having to wait 3 weeks because it's kind of a I get paid on the 10th and the 21st. So between the 21st and the 10th, I'm like

scrging around for my last dollars to make it to my next paycheck. Yeah, I know that feeling. >> I'm really Yeah. And so I'm trying to figure out if I'm like paying too much aggressively because I have this goal in my mind of paying off over $100,000 of

consumer debt by December if I'm if I

need to pull back a little and stop being so so extreme.

>> Well, I I'll I'll give you some parameters. Um, something that you said definitely hit home for me and when my husband and I were paying off debt, the feeling of having just a little bit of money in your account, I think that can be good, but are you budgeting a cushion just in case? Like, if you're finding that you're going to the wire and it's causing you to overdraw or it's causing you to not pay minimums on other things, that's a red flag that you're just doing you're just taking every cent and you're not planning for just like a basic cushion.

But if you're if you're telling me like, "No, Jade, I'm not it's not causing me to overdraw.

>> stress and strain. I just don't have I'm just using all of it." I >> I think that's pretty good.

>> Yeah, I I was I was overdrafting a lot

up until October and then I I kind of like I hit rock bottom. My friend's an FPU coach, she was like, "We are going to do this." So now I This is my first month doing my every dollar myself.

>> Good. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay.

>> And you're putting the cushion. What's your cushion amount?

>> Um I would say I don't have a cushion

right now. >> Okay. You need a cushion. I I This is coming This is coming from your friend who has done that and the overdrawing it

because it's inevitable, right? You you budget zerobased budgeting doesn't mean zero dollars in your account. So, if you're budgeting every single dollar towards debt and you're not putting a cushion, it is ine inevitable, Elizabeth, that something will come up, grandma's birthday or just something that you forgot that will come out of your account and overdraft you and then you're like, "Oh, >> that's happening every month." Yes, that's happening every month. >> How much how much money are you putting towards debt?

So right now, um, just like in my

minimums, it's about two grand and then

what I'm paying on top of that is like another two grand. So somewhere around 4 to 5,000 a month. >> Okay. Cuz how much are you bringing in a month?

>> Um, 13 to 14.

>> Okay. >> But I made griefbased decisions like

because of working in an ICU during COVID and getting PTSD. Like I was like, "This has to mean something." And so I'm like standing in a $6,000 a month rent right now >> and just paid off a $5,000 couch. Yeah.

And when I finally hit rock bottom, I was like, "Okay, I've made a lot of good decisions. I'm paying the stupid tax till I get out of this >> like lease up." And

>> yeah, my lease is up in January of next year. >> Okay. So, another year of you kind of

have outearned this the I don't want to

say stupidity, but you know what I mean.

Um the bad purchase.

>> And like I said, luckily you have enough

you're earning a high enough income that you're probably not feeling it the way some others might feel it. But yeah, that's going to make a huge difference when you get back down to 25%.

>> For sure. >> Right. >> Yeah. Have you calculated out because you have $600,000 in debt? You said

>> when you get that When you get that 6,000 a month back in the budget, how quickly are you able to pay this all off? And I'm assuming your income will go up over the next couple years.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, right now, um, my income

goes up about I'm I'm at 320 right now and about 10k a year um is my salary

increase and then I get about a 10k budget once I I just started my job. I'm only four months in, but that's essentially >> okay >> where we're at. I've paid down almost 20k of my of my debt so far.

>> Okay. Okay. Just a question. Um and I'm sure you've run this out, but if you haven't, if you broke the lease, what would the lease, what would it cost you?

>> Oh, it's like 15.

>> 15.

>> Mhm. >> H Well, that's two months of rent.

>> Yeah. >> Versus continuing to pay >> Yeah. 60,000.

>> Yeah. >> I'd probably do that. Just so so should I save the money then to pay off. Okay.

So instead of worrying about paying off my other debt just like Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I would do that because think about it.

If you can find a place that's I don't know 2,000. >> I already have I already have three. I already found like five places. I search like once a week. >> I probably would do that, Elizabeth. Yeah. Versus being stuck in this cuz that's what 66 almost $70,000 a lot

>> that could be going towards this >> over time, you know. Um.

>> Right. >> Yeah. I mean, if you saved 4,500 a month on rent, that's a a killing.

>> Yeah. Okay. Okay.

>> Okay. Great. And I feel like you're motivated. >> You are. >> She's like, I already found three places. I found three places to live in high school. Okay. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Say less. >> Eight years of non-gratification. I can do this. >> Yes, Elizabeth. >> Oh my gosh. Well, you make a great income. You have a crap ton of debt, which I know you feel, but you can.

Yeah, you you can do this. I love this for you. Okay, so we've got a clear plan forward. There's way more margin coming up. I love that. >> Yes. Oh, yeah. I would do that.

>> So, so, so good. Okay.

>> And six grand a month.

>> It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. So, just for anybody who's listening for the first time, whenever we have people ask about their home situation, you don't want it to be any more than 25% of your take-home pay. And that's not just with mortgages, that's rent as well. Yeah.

And the purpose of that is to make sure that you've got your income at your disposal to do the things that we teach.

What regardless of your baby step, whether it's um you know to to be able

to do all of it to be able to save 15% in baby step four, five, and six, you can't exceed that or else you'll wonder how are how is everybody saving 15%.

It's because our mortgages and our rent is 25% or less.

>> Yes. Yep. which allows again so much of your income to be able to do so many things whether it is paying off debt like where she is in baby step two or beyond that what you're saying with investing and even kids college putting extra towards the house all of it.

>> Yes. Yes. But yeah, um what I appreciate about her though is she um she's not like a typical we see

some people get out and they out of law school, out of you know doing all the residency with in the medical field and they make $320,000 their first job and that's a that's a great income. It is

they and you want to feel it. you want to go enjoy it and you want, you know, upgrade the car, get a nicer spot, like you just want to all these things. You want to be in it. And so her though, I could hear it in her voice.

Yeah. >> Where she was like, "No, I am I'm cutting. I'm getting out of this because it's crazy to think if she does this in 3 4 years, which is totally doable." >> Absolutely. >> Um at that point, she'll be making 400,000, you know, >> with nothing with no debt.

>> That's so true, you know. Um, and she did this with co she kind of went back and re revenge spend uh which was a real thing. But it's true when you make an income like that or really anything if you've worked hard to get what you have you almost feel like it's a reward to be able to enjoy it >> and and it is but if you've made mistakes >> you've got to go back and pick them up and clean up the mistakes and that's just part of it.

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All right, thanks for hanging with us.

We're going right back to the phone lines where we have Amanda who's in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Hey, Amanda.

>> Hi. Thanks so much for taking my call. I hope you guys are good. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Hi. So, I need more of a I guess relationship advice. I want to see how I

can maybe get my husband to be as intense as I want to be on step number two or maybe how I can be less intense.

We can balance out. He says I'm a little bit um obsessing over money right now.

>> Okay. So, he's viewing he's viewing you

as obsessive. You're viewing him as a little bit passive. Tell me tell me some of the things that you want to do that he doesn't agree with.

So, um, we have some crypto

that I would love to take out so we can

get through step two faster. And I know

he was not totally on board. So, I made

uh like different plans as to how it it

would look like or how long it would take to pay off our debt if we took out the crypto, if we uh you know sold my

car and I would get a cheaper car or if

we didn't do either. So, we could compare the the length at which it would take to get through step two. Um, and

then he he's he's supportive of going through step two, but he was just like, "You're obsessing too much over this.

Like you >> he's not feeling the pain as much as you are." >> Yeah. He's Yeah. He's like, "I we're going to get through it. Like, you just need to calm down. Like, you're spending a little bit too much time on it. Like, you should focus on our family and our marriage instead of like looking at this." >> Wow. Does Does Okay, let me go on that

side. Does your marriage need attention?

Is there other things that need more attention right now?

>> I I would say maybe, you know, we just had a a baby. We have a four-year-old and a six-month-old right now. So, I would say maybe we could we try to do date nights and stuff, you know, at home and we go out for dinners.

>> Okay. >> Maybe like once a month or something.

>> Okay. So, >> I guess I can see why we could spend more time. Maybe I would start by I'm

going a different direction. I don't usually go this. So maybe you could start by getting a picture from him of what that looks like >> um in his mind. What does it mean for you >> if I I thought about what you said. What does it mean for you um in your mind?

What does it look like for me to spend more energy on our marriage? What does it look like for you um for me spending more time on our family? Because I'd like to meet you where you're at. And then I'm hoping that we can meet each other where we're at. And so if you start by >> wondering what that is for him, huh?

Because I'm not saying this is you, Amanda, by any means, but we do have some people that are so hardcore that every conversation is around getting out of debt. Every purchase is looked at to like the inth degree when the spouse walks in the door and it's like, look, I saw this over, you know, and it's just like it it becomes so obsessive to the point that there's nothing else in life but this. And listen, we're all about intensity, right? like we want you, but also you're a whole person and so you are in a marriage, you are a mom, you have these other roles that you can't neglect.

Amanda, how where would you be with how I just described? Are you that person or are you like, "No, I'm not that person.

He just is way too passive and I'm not that crazy." What would you say where where you are? Well, you know, I would admit I'm not like crazy obsessive, but I do want to get through um the debt

payoff and yeah, maybe could be a little bit more >> I guess cuz I I'm the one that handles the finances. >> I would like for him to be on board and not be the one that's like, "Oh, we can't, no, we shouldn't be spending on that or you don't want to be the mom of him, right?" And giving permission of what he can and can't do and what we can and can't do as family. We as two adults need to decide that. So there's there there's a core issue there.

>> It's a big issue. >> He's not in there with you. I >> I like that. I think if I were in your shoes, my next step would be set up a date, like a date night.

And the first date would be for you to learn more about what we talked about before. What does it look like in your mind for me to do these things? And then I'd set up another date. And I would say, um, here's what I I I know you didn't ask, but here's a few things that I would like to see going forward.

And I think if we if I do some of the things on your list and you do some of the things on my list, that's us meeting in the middle. Y >> and to do all of that around a date night, I think is a great way to be intentional. Um I I'll I'll just be honest. I for one like the fact that you're running different scenarios of if we did this, here's how quickly and if we did this.

And that way there's options. And I think maybe presenting it to him that way and saying, "Hey, what I don't want to do is make the decisions for our family. What I don't want to do is be the one saying you can or can't do this. So what I thought would work would be would be me bringing options so that you can decide and that we can decide together and both feel good about it as opposed to me saying no we're selling the crypto and no you're selling your car that sort of thing.

So just it just really feels like hearing the heart around the situation for both of you would be helpful. Yeah. And I do wonder, Amanda, if there's like if you guys are just missing a point of connection, and this sounds like so simple, but honestly, I could see being in your shoes and feeling like I feel so isolated over here. I feel so much responsibility.

I have a new baby. I have a toddler. This is up to me to make all these decisions about the household finances. I don't I feel like I'm on my own.

I don't feel connected to my husband.

But at least there's like a there's a connection point and I feel level of connection where his level of con connection Amanda maybe something totally different and so figure out what that is for him like what Jade's saying.

So, I think there there's like kind of this missing element of, you know, you could be functioning more like roommates and you're the CFO and you know what I mean, doing this role all on your own versus it being a marriage and we're in this, we're in this together. And what we both need may look different, but let's say that out loud um so that we at least hear each other. And that's the part of marriage is that you you know, you're you don't you're not going to be the hero to your spouse's story by any stretch of the imagination, but you can at least choose to step into those things.

Absolutely. And I do wonder if that would help you because he does need to be part of these decisions with money.

>> Yeah. >> And and you're probably Yeah. And I Sorry, I'm going to keep talking >> because I I bet you feel the stress though because you're seeing the numbers day in and day out and he's so he doesn't feel it as much as you >> and and I'm like, "Oh, we have this much left for our for grocery budget." And he'll be like, "Okay." you know, he's supportive of that, but I'm the one that has to like remind like, hey, we have this much in our account. We don't want to use our savings or >> Yeah.

And I don't think that's too much to ask. Um I truly don't. I I don't think

you're wrong. I I I don't think you're wrong at all. I don't think he's wrong for saying what his needs are. I think you guys just need to really talk about it and don't leave anything out.

Just be honest and see where that leads. Do you think you could be honest with him? And if so, what do you think his response would be? Do you think there'd be any change?

>> Yeah, I think I think I could be honest with him.

I didn't think I could trust him with the finances because I feel like it

would be unnecessary expenses.

So then that's why I felt like I had to take over the finances >> because you feel like he spends he spends too much >> on unnecessary things. Is that what you said? >> Yeah, maybe. >> So you wouldn't trust his methods?

>> Maybe not. Yeah. >> Okay. So it's a philosophy.

>> I have I have it in my mind that I wanted a specific way with the finances, but I feel like it's just sticking to the budget and not purchasing what's not

necessary. It sounds like you both have two different philosophies. It sounds like for you getting out of debt's really, really important or finding this financial security, whatever that means for is really, really important. And you're willing to really sacrifice to get it. And it sounds like for him debt is not as big of an issue.

>> Therefore, why be intense about solving it? >> You are definitely correct. Yes.

>> Okay. So that's a whole different conversation I think because if he doesn't mind debt then you pushing to go harder. He's like why? Why? Why? Right?

It's just like a moot point for him. So the conversation needs to be here's the way I'm feeling. Here's what this debt is making me feel. Here's my philosophy on debt. Where can we meet in the middle? Where can we where can we align on this? Because the baby steps, they're

not there to be the stumbling block for a marriage. They're there to be >> to be unified. And if it's causing so much friction, then you have to take steps back and go back to the almost the precipice of where you guys went arai and spend a lot more time having those conversations, getting aligned before you start any actions on the baby steps.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Jade. This is Rachel. We're headed back to the phone lines where we have Matt who's in Orlando, Florida. Hi Matt. How are you? >> I'm good. And you guys? It's very very nice to talk to you guys finally.

>> Great. How can we help today?

>> Um, so basically I have wrecked up around 26,000 in consumer loans and unfortunately I have a a immigration situation with the lawyer and everything. So I had to put a lot of money to a lot of like loans towards the

credit card and I just want to know uh what should I be the best if I go for a debt relief program or I pay car uh the

highest first. How like what do you recommend that I should do on this situation? Well, I wouldn't go to debt relief simply because they're going to

take all of your payments and pull it

and then in the time that you're not paying it, they're going to use that as leverage to strike a deal for you. And you really don't need them to do that. That's going to tank your credit. If you wanted to do that on your own, you could really do that on your own. Um, so I I would not get involved with the debt relief program. Um, the 26,000 that you

mentioned, is that everything? That's including the immigration lawyer fees and everything, or is there more to speak of?

>> No, it's everything. >> Okay. And how much are you earning right now? >> Um, around 5560,000.

>> Okay, good. Is it just you or do you have a family? Are you married?

>> I'm I'm married. >> Okay. Uh, go ahead, Rachel. Well, I was going to ask, how many credit cards does this consist of? The 26,000

>> it's uh six credit cards.

>> Six credit cards. Do you know the balance on each of them?

>> Uh the American Express around 10,000.

Um the other credit cards around 2

3,000. >> Okay, perfect. Okay. So, what we would tell you is to list out the debts

smallest to largest and actually regardless of the interest rate and pay minimum payments on everything. stay current, but attack that smallest one first. And so what I would do, Matt, is if you guys can up your income, I mean, even if you can get um gosh, if you could find 500 bucks of margin, $1,000 of margin a month, and then maybe work extra and you get another thousand, some of these two thousands you could be paying off every month. Do you know what I mean?

As you go down the line. Um, and that's what's powerful about it is you start actually knocking some of the stuff out and then those payments that you were paying on those roll over to the next debt, right? So the 300 400 bucks a month you're paying for minimals now that's paid off. So that's an extra, you know, could be 2400 going to the next one, right?

So you kind of keep that snowball effect going. Um, but that's going to be the fastest way, the most efficient way for you to tackle these. So no, I would not pay a debt consolidation company. I wouldn't go to a debt relief company.

The people maneuver their debt around so much. The best thing for you guys is to take these six credit cards and you and your wife sit down and say, "How fast can we pay these off ASAP?" And it's and it's 30 grand. I mean, 26 grand. Um, so you can do this. I mean, I I really do.

I mean, if you can get two grand a month, you know what I mean? You got to pay it off in a year. >> Yeah. I just have a feeling that every every month that I pay, I I usually pay a little bit uh more than uh the minimum. So, every time I pay $200 and

it comes back, entry is $200. I'm like

I'm just paying the interest basically.

>> Yeah. And know like I'm going I'm I'm moving a step forward but like not not exactly >> and it's going to feel like that on all of the debts that you're paying the minimum on. The one that's going to feel that you're making progress on is the smallest debt. So just know that until

it's everybody's going to have to be on hold at the minimum until it's their turn to be the smallest debt cuz in that smallest debt you're paying it off lickety split. So just for real numbers,

after you pay the minimums on everything and you know your household is taken care of, how much extra money do you have every single month to put towards these debts to put towards the smallest debt? >> I would say $500, $600. I could put more, but then that that's uh I leave like money out of my pocket in case of of an emergency or something.

>> Okay. So, what we need to make sure is that you have $1,000 saved as an emergency fund so that you don't have to be worried about that month in and month out. If you have $1,000 saved, that's what we would call baby step one. And that way that's there.

You don't have to think about, you know, what if I have a flat tire? You know, there's money there. And then secondary on your every dollar budget, which by the way, if you don't have an every dollar budget, um Christian will pick up after this call and make sure we set you up with it. I want to make sure you have a cushion item, a cushion line item, meaning that you're budgeting a certain amount of money every single month just as a something could happen.

Um, >> yeah, Matt, do you have $1,000 saved right now?

Um, no, not really.

>> Okay. So, yeah. So, that would be the first goal is to work towards that. So, it may take you two months to do that.

Um, but in all of this, we want it to be really aggressive. So, almost say, could I do this in a month and a half? Could I do this in one month? Like, what do I have to do to get this thousand dollars as quickly as possible?

And again, it's probably going to mean working overtime, getting a side hustle. But this is all on Matt for nine months. You know what I mean? Like, we're not you're not going to be doing this forever and ever.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So they're ter it's terrible. It's horrible.

So the faster you get out uh the better off you're going to be where some people can hold on to a student loan because it's not high interest you know and they don't really feel it. You feel credit cards credit card debt you feel. So um getting out as fast as possible Matt is going to be your goal. But I see a way out for you guys.

I mean I really do. And even if your wife can take a part-time job and her, you know, even bring in an extra 500 a month or something. >> Absolutely. >> That stuff helps.

That stuff changes the game. >> So, uh, let's take a moment.

this is the second or third call, and I I want to just kind of go back to basics on debt payoff. So, first things first,

you got to have baby step one. Like, you got to have the $1,000. I have tried it without it back in the day and it didn't work because to to his point Mark uh to

Matt's point, you're worried about well if I put all my money on the debt, what if something happens? That's what baby step one is there for. So guys, you have to have baby step one in place. Next thing is the cushion. You got to have you know a cushion is not an emergency fund. It is not a slush fund. It is strictly there >> in case something that you forgot about comes out. And a way to think about it is what's the worst that could come out.

I don't know if you still have Amazon Prime. What is that like 120 bucks when that hits? Or Dropbox subscription or something hits once a year. >> So think about like yeah, maybe it's 150 bucks if you're getting out of debt. And especially if you have uh you know when I say lower income, if you're kind of in the average income, you're making 60 70 yeah 150 bucks extra, that's a great

place to start for a cushion. Now, if you're making a little bit more, you might need a little bit larger of a cushion because there might be larger things that come out. So, you need the cushion. And the next thing is just understanding that when we talk about the debt snowball method, I've been noticing this, Rachel. Um when we say smallest to largest, it's by balance. It is not by payment due. Okay. I've been

noticing people are doing it by payment and I'm like, "No, no, no, no. Balance." So, the full amount that you owe, that's how you're listing them. You got to pay the minimums. Cuz I've also, and I've done this, you think, "Oh, I don't have to pay the minimums. I just want all the money going at the smallest debt." No, no, no. Please pay the minimums. It is

It is thankless. I will just go ahead and say you, it doesn't feel good, but please do that because it's going to keep those debt collectors off and it is going to help keep the interest at bay.

Okay? So, please do it and it's going to give you more motivation to go quickly through the debt snowball. All the smallest money goes to the debt. So, that's just a little refresher for you um for you to get yourself right if you haven't been doing it right up until this point.

Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time, we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know? >> Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars.

And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular, proper maintenance.

>> Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So, when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no-brainer and they've been absolutely great.

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All right, back to the phone lines we go where we have Anna who's in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Anna. How are you?

>> Hi.

Um, so I'm calling today because I just need some advice on what to do with some the money that I just got from the sale of my home. Um, so I'm a single mom of

three. Um, got divorced a couple years ago, but the house just it was a nightmare, but it just sold in September. >> Um, and so after I got the money off of it, I ended up making um a little over 100,000 off of it.

>> Oh, great.

>> I took uh the first thing I did is I went and paid off all my credit card debt because I had a lot of debt from the divorce process. >> Okay. >> Um, so I have no credit card debt at all. Go ahead. Um, no. The only only two

things I still have um on my credit, one is are student loans. I'm about 45,000

in student loan debt. Um, but I am a teacher in a title one school, so I am on the public service loan forgiveness program, which I know y'all speak about

still trying to pay that off. Um, because you know those can be complicated. But I have talked with someone and I'm on the right path. I've been paying on it for five years. Um,

and then the other thing I owe about $8,000 on my vehicle, but I have tax

money coming in. That should be more than enough to pay that off. Um, so

right now I'm renting um because that

was the only option I had until the house sold that I could afford >> and you know it would it is easier. Um,

however, I would really like to be able to buy a home to where I feel like I'm investing in my future for me and the kids instead of renting. I kind of feel like I throw a little bit of money away.

And I know that that's not fully the case because I'm not having to worry about fixing things. But I'm pretty handy. I can fix most things myself. Um,

so I guess my question is, um, I don't

think I'm quite ready because I'm not sure where where I want to buy a home at at the moment, but based on interest rates in today's economy, for me to have a home big enough for me and the kids, >> um, I would have to put a h 100,000 down on something just to get the payments to where I can afford them. >> Right. So Anna, out of the hundred,000

that you got, you said you paid off all your credit card debt. How much of that is left?

Oh, it was like I ended up with like 112,000. So, I took that 12. I still have a h 100,000. >> Oh, wow. Okay, perfect. Okay. Um All

right, that's great. So, you know what we would suggest? >> Yeah, and I think you probably know our answer to a degree of what we would do with this 100 grand. If it were me, I would pay off the student loans in the car today and then I would look to say,

"Okay, I have, you know, you'll have around 40ish 48,000 left." And I would

take that, I would put it um in a high yield savings account and I would just be making it a goal to be building that

up because part of that 45,000 that's going to be left um is that right? No, no, no. I'm sorry. The 45,000 was your student loans.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it gets to be around 45 or so that you'll have left >> once you pay the car off. >> Yeah.

Um you know, part of that's going to be earmarked for an emergency fund and then start saving on top of that though.

you're going to be able to buy the home that you want and to have, you know, we always say to have at least a 5% down payment, what percentage um when you say I would need at least $100,000, is that to get your payment to 25% of your take-home pay?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Yep. Um >> um the because a fourbedroom home in my area, you're not going to find one under 300,000. And for the for me to be able to afford the payments per month, I need it to be at at least 200,000.

>> Yep. So, so a couple of things in this.

Number one, you know, you know, it may not be a four-bedroom home. You know, two of the kids may share a room. I shared a room growing up and a bathroom.

uh you know, you may decide, hey, I'm going to value home ownership more than just the comfort of what, you know, my kids space-wise, right? Some people make that decision. Some people don't. Some people say, "No, we're going to save an extra year to make sure we get really what we want." Um, you know, but there can be um decisions you make along the way. I just don't want you to ever feel locked in that um I have to get this

type of house in this specific area.

This has to be it. Right. I would I would broaden the horizons just to see if you're wanting to get into the house faster or maybe you have the patience to save another year or two. >> Yeah, I I 100% Rachel agree with your plan and I I wouldn't change it at all and I would make it my goal if possible.

You know, the best way to do this is on a 15-year. So, I'd make that my goal too if it's not already your goal. Um, but the biggest thing that's going to give you peace is having this debt gone and

having that 3 to 6 months of expenses really between you and life, especially with three kids, is such a it's just a breath of fresh air to have that. So, I like the goal. Um, I like that you have 100,000 cash, but that's exactly what I'd do with it.

>> Okay. I have some money in an MMA

account that's gaining like 3.5% interest.

Um, I don't know much about the high yield savings account. >> Is that what the hundred,000 is in?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. So, it's same thing. It's in a money market account right now.

>> Yes. >> Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Money market and high yield are >> same >> pretty much same. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's but that's where where I would keep I wouldn't invest it because I think Anna, you're going to use this money probably in the next three to four years. And if it's anything longer than five, you could think about, you know, a brokerage account or an index fund or something.

Um, that would probably make some more.

But if you're going to be using it in the next 3 years, um, I would just keep it in that high yield and just keep saving on top of that. >> I would too, especially knowing that really a portion of that is technically your your 3 to 6 months after you've paid off this debt. Having it liquid is a good a good place to have that as well. >> Yeah. >> H, thanks for the question. Good question. All right, let's go to Braden in Philadelphia. Braden, how can we help today?

>> Braden, are you there?

>> Hey, what's up? >> Oh, yeah, I am. Sorry. >> No worries. >> Hey, how's it going? >> Hey, how are you? How can we help?

>> So, um, I'm calling today because I've

been doing the baby steps, but um, I've been doing, I guess, Ramsayish would be the word, and it's kind of not working out so much. Um, I'm kind of like still paycheck to paycheck and I've been budgeting and um, so I just had a couple

questions about some debt that my wife and I are in. And I had my um, I guess

my income up because there's a couple options. I I have a two-year degree from Pen College and pretty much I could go

back for four years. I did do an additional two years and have a bachelor degree in engineering. I'm not sure how much that would help. Um, but I don't want to take out student loans on that either. >> So, you're facing an income problem and you're thinking changing careers is the situation is the move.

>> Um, yeah. I mean, it would be more so the same field but a different job. It' be more engineering than like technician work. >> Okay. What would Do you know what it would cost you to go back to school? And how much more would you earn by doing that?

Um, it's hard to say. I think each semester is around 12 to 15

and it'd be another four semesters.

>> Okay. >> I'm not sure how much more I'd earn.

Really depends on the kind of live in an area I'm a little bit outside of Philadelphia. >> So, I I don't know what kind of work would be around here for >> So, I think that's where you got to start. anybody who's looking to switch career fields, um, and especially if you're looking to pay for school in order to do it, you've got to do that initial research to find out number one,

if I go back to school, what's the earning potential there? Do I have a potential to earn just 10 10 or $12,000 more, or can I double my income? And then from there, it's like, okay, if I feel like the jump in income could be worth going back to school, now I have to go back and say, okay, how how much does it cost and how where can I go that's the least expensive route? How long would it take me to save?

And then you're able to weigh out those really important factors.

Um, I'm guessing that you're feeling this because you guys are in debt. Am I right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. We got our kid now. We got a another one on the way with both super happy about, but it's kind of >> Yeah. How much debt do you guys have?

>> It's going to be >> um I think uh quick math around 37 I think.

>> Okay. Is that cars, credit cards?

>> Um there we have a car on there, a few

credit cards, a personal loan. >> Okay. >> And that that's actually not not including our house. >> Okay. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I hear you. We're about to go to a break, but I would say to you, I would encourage you and your wife, sit down tonight and just say, if we went scorched earth and did this Ramsay thing the real way, what would this look like to get us out of this mess? Cuz it's just kind of floating around.

And then I would make sure to before you're even talking about school, you need a hard fact that you need a degree in order to get these other, you know, jobs, which you may, but I would want to know black and white like, yes, you absolutely have to have this four-year degree in order to have this job, and this job you're going to make $40,000 more.

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We've got Yeah, I know. We've got Taylor who's in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi, Taylor.

>> Hi. I'm so excited to talk to y'all.

Thank you'all for answering my question.

>> For sure. How can we help?

>> Um, okay. So, I need y'all to help me solve a disagreement between me and my husband about how much to spend to

upgrade my car. Yes, we love a marriage

disagreement. Give it to us.

>> Y'all are perfect to help me with that. >> We can do this. >> Um, okay. So, a little bit of background. Um, we are on I think baby step four. Um, we don't have any debt.

We're 28 years old, no kids. Um, we

don't have any debt other than our mortgage. We have a small mortgage. Um, and we recently inherited um $100,000

>> from my grandpa. >> Okay. And so of that, we're trying to

figure out how much we want to spend to upgrade my car. And it's definitely a it's a want, not a need. Um, so I'll preface with that. But my husband wants to spend, if anything, around 25,000,

and I would like to spend up to 50.

>> Nice. That's a big difference. >> What kind of car are you looking at, Taylor? >> Well, that's the hard part. we really can't look at cars because we're at such a difference on price that it makes it

hard. Um what we've kind of decided on is potentially maybe a Volkswagen Atlas.

Um but of course the year really depends on how much we're going to spend.

>> Yes, for sure. For sure.

>> And of course I think he's being frugal and he thinks I'm, you know, kind of spending too much and so we're just kind of at a disagreement and at odds.

>> Totally. Okay. If this if the upgrade of the car is it um let me ask this the

current car you have are you like yeah I'm going to have to upgrade at some point probably in the next year or two or is it like you both have fine cars but you're like hey we got 100 grand and I enjoy a nice car. Which one is it?

>> Well, he drives a very nice truck. Um so

I'll say that we don't own it. Um it is a business truck so you know that's it's not something that we own. Um, I drive a

Mazda CX3 2017. It has about 100,000

miles on it, so it could definitely go for the next probably three more years.

>> What would go? So, okay. So, whether you spend 25 or 50, what what's the plan with the other money? Like, does it keep you from doing something else?

>> Not necessarily. My We don't have kids and we probably plan to in the next couple years. And so I think my husband is just like, we could spend that on the house to pay it off or on other investments in in the next two years.

We're going to have probably a lot more expenses than we do currently. And he just feels like seeing it grow. And I

mean, he just sees that big number and he's like, "Wow, we could do so much with that." Which I totally understand.

>> What's left on the mortgage, by the way?

>> Um, around 200k. Okay.

>> And how much do you guys make a year?

>> 200K. >> Oh, wow. Okay. So >> you make 200. Yeah. You >> So you probably know our parameters on this. Have you heard of it?

>> Uh yes. So nothing more than 50%.

>> Yeah. So we always say that things with motors really the whole family combined shouldn't be any more than 50% of your

take-home pay. >> And Taylor's at 25. >> Yeah. He's at 25. And I mean you could you could go up to 100.

>> No. Yeah. I was gonna say no. She's at 25 wanting 50,000, >> right? My math's right. If you make 200,000 Yeah. >> a year and she wants to spend 50,000,

that's 25%.

>> Yeah. >> Of the take. So So she's way way below.

>> She's way below. >> Like even with his he's at 12% or

something. >> That's what I'm saying. You got you guys have a $100 $100,000 window to fill. And

so >> in cars >> in cars and so you >> Okay, but here okay. So here would be the deal. I would say in order to feel good about you spending 50, let's say he loses his job and he needs to go buy something. Could he buy something for 40 to 50 that he would feel good about?

>> Well, he works for his his family's business. >> Yes. Well, no. Hypothetically, though, because >> Okay. Hypothetically, yes.

>> If he could, then together you guys are under the 50% rule. If you have a $50,000 car and he has a $50,000 car, you're at $100,000 of cars making $200,000. Does that make sense? So like you're good.

>> And you're saying as long as he'd have the ability to do what you're asking to do. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. To stay within those parameters then. Yeah. Because again, God forbid he loses a job, you know, and >> he needs a car.

>> And he'd need a car. Could he do it within the parameters of the 50% total household of vehicles? And he could, you know, he could buy. >> Do you take into account the inheritance at all or do you just kind of ignore that and think about >> how you got it?

Yeah. No, I kind of ignore it. >> That's just a cherry on top. the fact that you didn't have to save up for it.

>> Yeah. Unless Unless something in the inheritance says that they want this to go for your future kids college tuition or something. You know what I mean? And you're going against and you're like, "Oh gosh, that feels weird to do that." Yeah.

>> Um >> I mean, Taylor, I'm saying yes. I'm on your team, Taylor.

You know what? Maybe say 45 to give them

like a little a little bit of a buffer.

48. But hey, but seriously though, research the cars cuz what you want in the year, you may find like, oh my gosh, I can totally get that for 43 and I and I'm great with it. You know what I mean? So, the research is going to help too. I think brings some of this just the idea cuz like just and I understand like golly, so on the pill of $50,000 to a car. >> Well, is it used or is it brand new?

>> Used. We we would buy used.

>> Okay, just double checking that.

>> Yeah, >> I I am a green light.

>> I think you called the right day, Taylor. If you got George Camel, I don't know what George would say, but he say yes. >> I say yes. So, the key is now you have to get your husband to listen to this episode. >> Exactly. >> I don't know. Yes. And you got to pay and y'all agreed. >> And you're married to him, though. So, there's, you know, you you committed your life to him. So, there may be a little give and take, but we would say yes. >> Oh, wow. Congratulations on the new car.

>> Oh, man. I love a call like that. Those are my favorite calls when we get to get in the middle and decide >> and we get to and when we get to say yes to people because I feel like so many of the calls it's like dude you got to sell the car, you can't go on that vacation.

No, you're broke.

>> You don't have money. You can't do that.

That's I feel like that's a lot. So when we get to say yes because it's respons.

It's fine. >> Well, and I think it's a good it's a good reminder because a lot of people uh forget that we want you to be able to live like no one else. Obviously, we're telling people all the time, hey, cut back, pull back, get a beater. And it's really great to understand that these moments happen to every day. Yes. Where whether even if it's not an an inheritance, maybe you've just worked really hard and now you bonus or something. Yep. >> Yeah. It's fun to be able to do this.

And just the reminder, I think it's good to go back and remind folks who might be listening for the first time, you know, we're sticklers about this obviously because cars go down in value. I mean, you said it. You know, you drive a car off the lot, it could drop 30% so so quickly a year or two. Yeah. It's crazy.

especially like with um EVs now, they're very like it's huge. And so the parameters are there really just to make sure too much of your world is not going down in value. That's so so important.

And so yeah, 50% is the rule. And then I asked her earlier about if she was buying a brand new vehicle because we even have a parameter there that really you should have a net worth of a million bucks before you purchase something outright because again, brand new vehicles drop in value so quickly. And I've heard Dave say, you really want the feeling that if I took that amount, that value that it was going to drop and I just put it in the street and burned it, I would feel nothing, right?

And so that's kind of they're parameters, they're guidelines, and they're there um for you guys. Yeah.

Just to help you. >> And whenever you get a big sum of money, too, we didn't really touch on this earlier, but really we always say there's three things you can do with money. You can give it, you can save it, you can spend it. And I think doing all three in a situation like this, I think is I think is important.

And so, you know, if we were still chatting with her, I probably would tell her, "Hey, take some of this, give a little bit of it." >> That's true. Yes.

Spend some on you. Like, you know, there's a there's a threeprong to this money stuff. And some seasons you're going to be saving more, you know, for something, for a down payment, for a house or whatever it may look like. Um, you know, some seasons you're going to have tons of generosity flow through you and you're able to do a lot, which is amazing.

And then some seasons you're going to be able to enjoy your money. So you it doesn't have to be like a a equal split between the three every single time, but just be aware that that's how money flows and and it should be flowing at some level of all three of those buckets. >> Yeah, that's what you're looking for. I love it.

I hope that your husband gives you zero problems because we agree with you wholeheartedly.

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Today's question comes from Jenna in Michigan. She said, "Your podcast inspired my husband and I to start the baby steps and we've made so much progress. I'm expecting our first baby and we'll be having a baby shower soon.

As a new mom, I feel pressure to get the nicest, which means most expensive items, so my baby can have the best things. With all the talk about how there are so many items you need, what advice would you give a new mom wanting to be smart financially, but feels the pressure of needing to get the new things her friends say are important?

Oh, that's a great question. Well, you asked two moms, so we can uh we can attest to this. >> Um, yeah. I mean, I do feel like people go crazy on the first baby. You're about to have a shower, so I'd say register to your heart's desire. You know, put put stuff on the registry, see what you get.

>> And then I know the money coming out of our pocket where we spent the most, and we did, we invested in a good stroller.

Yep. >> And a good car seat because those things lasted through three kids. And if you know baby stuff, toddler stuff, I mean stuff gets beat up constantly.

>> Oh yeah. >> So we did we bought the nice I mean we did it was a very very very nice stroller car seat set. But everything else we went cheap on to the the the high chair, the crib, like all of that stuff like did not it was the thing like what's going to get the most wear and tear >> that I would want to um keep for the

next kids, right? So it's like kind of that's how we made that decision. Um

yeah. So I think it's the two things. I think it's being practical and and buying the most expensive item sometimes is worth it because it is the nicest and it's going to last you. And then but then the other side of that prong is the um is the keeping up side of feeling like you have to keep up. And let me tell you, >> you're going to buy something and then six months later they're going to come out with a better thing of that. I mean, it just keeps going and going and going

and all the crap that is out there. It is like I swear it's like the wedding industry. >> The baby I mean >> it's like billions of dollars. been so much so much. So, I would not Yeah, I

would not feel the pressure. Um, it's easier said than done. I mean, just saying this over a microphone. I know it doesn't help you, but I do want to relieve like once you get past it all, you're not you don't even remember like you don't even think of like, oh my gosh, did I get the best >> bottles or pacifier, whatever. You know what I mean? >> I will say our stroller I wish I had made a different choice to this day.

>> Did you Did you buy a nice one, but you didn't like it or what? >> It was. And I it was the one everybody recommended and I honestly didn't do a

ton of my own research. I just went with what was recommended and I hated the stroller. But I'm with you, Rachel. I Sam and I picked like four or five things that were really important and they obviously happened to be the most expensive ones.

But when we put them on our register, our registry, we kind of had the idea that, you know, most people probably aren't going to get you a $500 gift. So, we kind of knew we'll probably be on the hook for that or maybe we could use our gift cards towards those things. But, we kind of knew like we'll get the expensive stuff likely and everybody else will get all the other dads.

>> it it measures their breathing so you don't have to like worry about like is my baby okay, right? like that. That's the main thing that I would get up in the night to just be like, I just need to make sure that they're fine. But it measures it's a little thing that goes around their foot and it grows with them in infancy and it measures their O2 and

like >> and it goes off if for some reason they've rolled over on and they can't breathe. So, >> yes. Oh my gosh. >> Best purchase ever. >> Yeah. Peace of mind. I don't even know if they I'm trying to think. I don't even know if I knew that. >> Yeah, that we had that. >> Maybe back in your day. >> I know they had that. I know. Um Oh,

that's so funny. Yeah, but there's so much so much crap I feel like that they just Yeah, it's so marketed to. So, just make the decision. Go to consignments for clothing. That's what I did, too. I found a few places in Nashville did consignment. That's where I bought so many of the kids babies. >> The baby is none the wiser. Make the things that make your life easier.

That's what I'd say. >> Yes. Amen. Hallelujah. Alrighty. Craig, who's in Salt Lake City, Utah, is on the line. Hey, Craig. How can we help today?

Well, I've I've got a a business, a

construction business, and over the last couple of years, I've had a couple of jobs that have went a little south on me, and I've taken out a a business loan

from my bank, and I've also got a cash flow to ride the incoming, outgoing, and

my overhead during between payments. Um,

well, over the last couple years, I've managed to get myself about 240,000 in

debt, and my payments on the cash flow in the

business are about 4,600 a month. And we

took out an equity loan on the house >> to pay down some of it. But right now,

I'm sitting at about with all my bills,

everything, I'm about $9,800 a month to just cover my overhead. And we we owe

just under 300 on our house. It appraises for just under 600. And I'm wondering if if it would be a good idea to sell the house and pay off this debt

or whether I should just keep trying to pay it and make headsway or I'm worried

that if I sell the house now I got to buy another one and I'm not going to get my payment is only 1,800 a month.

>> Well, how much was the home equity loan?

Like how much is that going to cut into the 600 that it's worth?

>> Well, I we it was 109.

>> Okay. Okay. >> For the home equity loan is what we got.

So >> you still owe 300.

>> Is that correct? >> Yes. >> So it's about 400,000 in debt. So you'll

net out around around 200.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So tell walk us through the plan.

Is the plan to take the because if the

plan is to take whatever equity maybe you walk away with 170 after all of this, I don't know. Uh what's the plan with that 170? Is it to clear business debt? Is it to roll it into a less expensive house? What are you thinking?

>> Well, I my my lease payment on my shop

space is about 2,400 a month. And so I

would take this if we sold the house, I would take this and clear the business debt, but I still have to have shop

space because I have a bunch of equipment that I need to have running to stay in business. Um, can you clarify for me when you said earlier that you had 240,000 in the business, is that including the 109 of the HELOC or is

that in addition to >> No, that includes that.

>> Okay. So, it's 240 total or is it 349

total? >> Yes. No, 249 total with the with the

house loan and the cash flow and my business loan. So, you would take the the the 170 and you would throw it towards all of the all of the cash flow loan.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. >> Yes, we're we're able we're able to keep up with the payments. I mean, it's tough, but just those two, the loan, the business loan and the cash flow is about 4,400 a month.

uh my business. I mean, I'm able to generate that, but I've had to let a lot

of the employees go because I had to >> cut payroll, >> increase my overhead.

>> Yeah. And so now I'm doing everything myself. So, >> is the business do you see it having an upward trajectory or is it flatlining?

Is it going down? Where like where do you project revenues to be in the next 12 months?

>> Well, I stay I stay pretty busy. Um I

average Um, I don't know. I I would probably

average in the next year maybe 200,000.

>> Okay. >> In volume.

>> So, it almost feels like you grew too

big too fast. Like you created a world that you can't sustain.

>> So, >> yes, >> you selling your house is making a huge I mean, you've already taken out a home equity loan. If you sell your house and then turn around and take the equity and run it back into this business and it's still not even fully clearing the debt, I'm afraid of that because it's only going to clear out some of the cash flow loan. You're you still have this business loan over here that has how

much will be left?

Well, we we figure after the sale of the house, I would have um probably about

40,000 in the business loan, and that would be the only the only lo, you know, the >> Yeah. So, unless I would need to pay off, >> I would sit down with your wife and unless y'all had an aggressive growth plan to get a house again in the next 5 years. Um but man, yeah, I

>> I'm not sure. I'm not sure about this business. I might sit down with um I might sit down with somebody who could give you some input on how the bis the health of the business and maybe get connected to our entree leadership coaching and see what they tell you about this business cuz I'm not convinced you need to keep it.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Jay.

Next to me is Rachel Cruz. We've got Lauren who's on the line from Tampa, Florida. Hi, Lauren. How can we help today? >> Hi there. Uh, so my husband and I are expecting our first baby come spring.

And we're trying to decide whether I will keep working full-time, move to part-time in a different role, or step away from the workplace totally. So, we're just like wanting some help weighing the risk risk versus reward of one leaving the work workforce >> and like what what to do to re you know reduce the hours for a season and just all that that comes with it. >> Totally. Well, congratulations. So exciting. >> Um what would be the main motivation for

you to change? Is it anything money related, financial related? Is it just your longing of, you know, wanting to be

a working mom or not be a working mom?

like what's pulling you the most?

>> I think the main thing is leaving my leaving a baby with daycare for 5 days a week seems really really hard. My husband isn't he's he works in law enforcement so he's on 12-hour shifts, right? And he might be moving >> back to night shift come, you know, springtime when the baby's due. And so that's also kind of a factor like could I be solo parenting for days at a time while he's working night shift and then sleeping during the day and then I'm having to do >> overnights and daycare and all that on my own.

>> That's a lot.

>> We have no debt. We >> Yeah, we have no debt. We just just our mortgage. We could live off of one income. Right now we aggress um we invest pretty aggressively. So, a little

bit more than like two grand a month into like retirement and um like a like

a brokerage. >> Okay. So, >> is is that 15% or is that more or less or do you know what percentage that is?

>> Uh it's more than 15% of our take-home.

Okay. >> What do y'all bring home a month?

>> Uh per month we bring home about a little bit more than 9,000 between the two of us. >> Oh, yeah. That is more. Okay. Um and

what would it be if you stopped?

>> Well, that's that's a good question. So, I'm I'm currently full-time engineer and so I haven't had the conversation yet with my employer of what uh part-time would look like. Um I know I could not stay in my current department. So, I'd have to either switch departments within the company and and take a pay cut to go part-time or just leave the company altogether and find a different part-time role. >> What does your husband make? What what's what's his income of this 9,000?

>> Um well, he makes about 96 a year and I make 94 a year. So, >> Okay. Yeah. So, could y'all live off of

4,500 a month comfortably? Like mortgage and food and you know, you guys are in a good spot. >> Yeah. Yeah. Mortgage and food, but we would have to really decrease our our investing. >> Sure. >> Okay. Yeah. Well, you're in a The good news is you're in a really great spot to just choose. It's not You're not Your back is not against the wall. There's nothing that's demanding attention financially. You're doing very very well. Um and the biggest red flag is

usually can we afford the mortgage? uh like this. And I'm just curious if you went down to 4,500. I know you'd be working part-time, but just curious, what is your mortgage every single month? >> Uh it's about 1,800. >> 1,800. Yeah. Um I think that with you even bringing in a little bit, you'd be okay. So, >> do you want to work, Lauren, or do you want to be home?

>> I think ideally I would like to work part-time just to be able to contribute financially to the to the family, but then also like have time at home with with littles cuz they're only little ones. Yeah, for sure. Well, here's the great thing that I I feel like I've learned in this of having three kids and

and working is different seasons are

going to bring different things. And it's okay for you to make a different decision. So, I feel like sometimes women feel like I have to make this call and it's going to be my life forever.

And that's not the case. That's that doesn't have to be. You know, you could you could choose, hey, I just want to be home full-time. That's great.

And then you may get in six months in. And I had a friend just like this and she's like, "I'm going crazy. Like >> I want to babysit her so that I can go and like do something and and just to like um and to use my talent." She was really talented and she missed that part of her. You know, she really did feel like there was something God has given her and that part she didn't have.

And so she's like, I kind of wanted to do both. And so she figured out a way to do both.

Or some people say, "I'm going to go back to work." And they get in. That happens a lot here at Ramsey with some girls, you know, they haven't been. And especially your first, you don't understand how it feels. And you and you think, I'm going to come back.

>> And then you get back in the swing. Yeah. And you're back in and you're 6 months in, nine months in, you're like, I hate this. I want to be home.

Guess what? You can quit and do that. You know, so like just know because of this financial situation you guys are in, which is such a blessing. What a gift is that you can you can make a different decision.

So, you know, if your knee-jerk right now is, hey, I think I do want to work part-time. Yeah. Start talking to your employer about that and start making plans around that.

>> You can make that decision. You know, it's not an all or nothing.

>> Yeah. So now what about like leaving the work for? Like I I I guess one of my fears is leaving the workforce as a woman for a period of time and then not either making as much as I make now or like I guess never I guess never being as professionally leveled as I am now.

Like if I am to leave and then come back. >> Yeah, I could be I could be wrong on this. So Jay, if you have a different opinion, I think that is something that to a degree we've kind of like created this fear in our heads to feel like we can't have an off-ramp. So we have to go go go. But I've I know many women who

have offramped a career for four to five years >> and get back in when the kids are in school and it takes a little bit to get back in but like they do it and they and they've th they've been fine. Now that may not be the case every single position or every single company. Um

>> but for me that that fear of it not being an absolute there's not like a law, you know what I mean? It's it's more an idea that that can happen.

>> Yeah. >> That would that would not be my motivator because it's not a hard fact.

It's a fear that's not always realistic.

>> Yeah. And I think it depends on what field you're in. It could be something that if you're keeping up like if you're just keeping up, whether it be certifications or you're just keeping up with new improvements, you know, how how that that particular field is shifting, just being in the know could help. Um, and there's a big part of this where the

there's also the assumption that, okay, let's pretend you're you're a stay-at-home mom for 10 years, right?

and you're thinking, "Oh my gosh, after 10 years, will I really be able to get my old job, right? Be be in my old field." Who's to say you would even want to do that type of work? So, even you

changing as a person to saying, "Hey, I may want to go back to work, but not necessarily what you were doing before." So, also giving yourself the ability to evolve in the career space and maybe have a completely different act and do something totally different. >> What the world's going to look like to in 8 years, you know, is wild.

>> Yeah. So to your point, the fear part there, it could really be unfounded because careers could change, you could change.

>> Yeah. >> Yes. It's a lot to think of. Like this is a huge choice. And hopefully that Rachel and I just gave you a couple of thoughts just to push you in a direction, but it really is a big choice. >> Yeah. And and you're never in a corner though, right? You It is a big choice.

But we have multiple choices you get to choose from. you know, any any given

month you get to it's your life, you know, you get to make that call.

>> Um, >> and none of them are con like none of them are for life. You always >> That's right. seasonal. It really is.

It's so seasonal. Like what I mean, I know I pulled back some after I had Charles cuz I had three kids under five and I was like, I can't do the travel I'm doing. >> And I did pull back and I did I watched people have um books come out that hit

higher than mine.

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Very, very good. All right, we've got Mark who's in Indianapolis, Indiana. Hi, Mark. How can we help?

>> Hi. How are you doing? >> Good. What's up?

>> Hi. Um, so my wife and I bought our first home recently about a week ago.

And um the thing is that the seller had

agreed to fix a few items um from the

inspection report and uh we we've taken

a look at at the fixes and we've had a few issues going on um this week and

we're not really sure if we have any recourse that we could do or anything that we could do after closing on this house. Now >> what what are what are we talking about?

Tell me what the items are.

>> So, um, the sump pump was not operational. Um,

>> what's not the pool? What' you say? Sump pump. Oh, sump pump. Okay. I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Yeah, the sump pump was not operational.

And they they agreed to replace a sump pump, which they did. They did replace a sump pump, but in doing so, they did not

connect the the pipe properly.

>> And the the day that I went um the day

that I went right after closing, there was water flowing everywhere and it go

the flooring of the basement. And then we also have a garage door situation that they put on a new door, but they

the the um they half-heartedly did it because um >> there's still the old tracks and the old pieces from the >> Yeah. They used So they use some crappy person to you know that did crap work on the repair. Yeah. It's in the contract, right, for it to be >> fixed and they didn't fix it and it's not fixed. So yes, >> force that. >> Absolutely. And it's just been a week, right, Mark? It's not six months.

Yes, it's been a week. So, that's what we're wondering. Like, >> I would talk to your realtor and go back. Yeah. And absolutely that they I mean, you have and you have evidence. Did you take pictures?

>> Yeah, I took pictures and I took videos.

I sent it to my realtor, but there's just it's just been crickets on that end. So, >> from your if someone's scared. Yeah.

From from our realtor. So, I'm not sure if someone's just if they're just busy or they're just scared to be bothered. I don't I don't know what's going on. Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on.

>> I'd show up. Do they have a place that you can show up to?

>> It's about a 30 minute drive, though.

But I I mean, we're we're willing.

>> I would I'd show up at their realy office and say, "Hey, I've been working with Bob and I just closed on my house and this is part of my contract and it's not been done and I've been trying to contact Bob and he's not re answering my

texts or my emails or my calls." That's what I do.

Okay. >> Yeah. And then I >> Is it likely we'll be able to recoup anything? >> Yeah, it's in your contract.

>> That that that that's that was a uh part

of the deal of this being a fair deal and they did not do it. >> And if they don't do it in the next 72 hours and answer, you're going to have to get it fixed. And when you get it fixed, you're going to bill it to them.

>> Along with a letter from your lawyer.

>> Yeah. It's in your contract to fix it and they didn't fix it properly. So they have to go back and fix it. So yeah, no,

that you definitely have a level of recourse. Now could is there a world that nobody answers your call, Mark, and everyone disappears and you can't find anyone? Is it worth pushing legal action at that point? You'll probably pay more in law fees than to fix it, right? So like there's a point >> there's a world that yeah, you end up just having to fix it yourself. But I would go to every single measure possible.

um yeah to get this cuz that's so that's so unfair just to do a crappy job on the fix just to say to check off uh check it off to get the contract through. So >> terrible. The worst part is having to spend the time and the effort and the brain power on this. Sorry you're going through that, but thank you for the call. Next up is Katie in Dallas, Texas.

Hi Katie.

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. Um I'm 44, my husband's 46. We currently only have 80K left on our mortgage. We have no other debt. We are interested in purchasing a newer home, bigger, more desirable area, which would leave us with a newer mortgage of about 250K

after about a $250,000 down payment. And

I'm just wondering if this is financially smart. I think number-wise, it's doable. However, emotionally it feels a little bit more um challenging to move forward with this.

>> For sure. or how much you guys make a year? >> Close to 200. >> Okay. How quickly could you pay the 250 off? Do you think if you like really if you guys said, "Okay, paying off the house is a priority to get this mortgage down." How quickly do you think you guys could do it?

>> Honestly, I don't think it would happen very fast. Maybe 7 to 10 years.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> what do you just feels >> Go ahead. It just feels like we wouldn't be able to I'm going to say build wealth as far as contribute more to the 529s,

more to the 401ks doing this.

>> How what percentage are you doing for you're doing retirement now? Are you doing 15%.

>> Um my husband and I are each both doing 10%. >> Okay. And how long what do you have in there? What do you have in retirement so far? >> About 550.

>> Okay. Um >> so that'll double. Yeah. I mean that will that'll double every seven years.

So you guys I think will be fine at retirement. And people that are doing you know the baby steps on average they pay off their home in about 9 years. So let's say that's you guys you know then you'll be you know your husband will be 55 you'll be um 53 with a paid off house.

Um, so I think the numbers I don't I don't think it's absolutely terrible, but but you know, big purchases like this, I always want to check my spirit

in it and ask like the motivation of it, right? Is it to be >> closer where you guys want to be? Is it for the schools for the kids? Is it >> in a newer newer neighborhood, a bigger home? You know, kids in the neighborhood that are friends with kids.

>> My kids.

>> Yeah. Totally. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, it doesn't that doesn't absolutely scare me.

I just want to make sure you guys as a household can fund >> 15% of your income into retirement. And I don't want the kids colleges >> to go on complete pause because you guys wanted a newer, bigger house, right? So, from a legacy perspective, I do think there is um some level of saying, hey, we are going to have to contribute and make sure the kids are good with college and do this. Can we do both?

because choosing one or the other feels >> maybe a little off. >> And I'd also ask myself the question because when I look at this my brain goes immediately to oh my gosh you only owe 80,000 on your mortgage. Now I'm just throwing this out there. Um the question I'd ask myself is if our house were paid off, would I still be interested in getting a 200 two at that point maybe a $200,000 mortgage on a house or would I be like no way my house is paid off.

I'm good to go. that that that'd be the question that I'd spend a lot of time with. And you might be like, "Yes, Jade. I am ready to go." >> Yeah, it does seem like we're almost towards the finish line.

>> How much is How much is your current house worth?

>> Um, about 280.

>> Okay. And what are you guys looking to upgrade to?

>> The sale price is $4.95, but we put down

about >> 55%. Oh yeah. Yeah. I I think you guys

are fine, Katie. I mean, as long as you Yes. the payment, you know, no more than 25% of your take-home pay so that you guys can invest >> in retirement, kids, college, all of that. So, it may be a season of

>> decreasing lifestyle a little bit. Yeah.

And and pulling back from Yeah. I want the household to be investing 15% and you guys are at 20 right now. So, uh just be thinking about that. So, pulling back will help with this and to hopefully maybe get it paid off sooner.

But um but yeah, with your ages, income,

what you're putting down, I mean, they're putting down 55%. Like I think >> you're doing everything right and above right in in that in that perspective.

The biggest thing is making sure and I'm assuming that you guys already do have some sort of uh emergency fund in place, but making sure you have the right amount of emergency fund because now with a bigger house payment, that amount needs to go up to match that new lifestyle obviously. So just some little things to keep in mind. Um, I love that you mentioned the 529s and making sure that college is still a priority because >> very, very important. But other than that, I'm like, let's go. It's great.

Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New year, new goals. We love it.

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So, just a reminder, so much of what we teach here is not just to make your life

difficult by saying that you need to cut back on your budget or you need to sell your car. The whole purpose of this is so that you can live like no one else, so that you can achieve financial peace.

And of course, that does translate to numbers. The hope is that you'll become a baby steps millionaire. And a baby steps millionaire is simply someone who has, you know, used our teachings, the baby steps and all the methods associated with that, and they've achieved a net worth of a million dollars or more, which when you think about a net worth equation, guys, it's what you own minus what you owe equaling a million bucks. And so, we actually have someone on the line who has accomplished that and we want to celebrate them.

Hey, Kelly.

>> Hey, how you doing, Jade? What's going on? A million dollars. Tell us more.

>> Um, well, yeah, a net worth of $2.4

million. >> Wow. >> And, um, I'm 57 years old. My wife is

49.

>> And we inherited 0 and0.

>> Every bit of it we've done ourselves.

>> Incredible. What's the 2.4 consist of?

>> Okay. It's uh, I got 1 million. We got 1 million in retirement. That's I rolled over TSP. I was uh in the military.

>> Okay. >> And then her 457. We got Roth. It's mostly an index funds. There's a little mutual funds in there. >> Yeah. >> And then non-retirement, we got our emergency fund of 30,000. And then we

put 260,000 in highpaying dividend ETFs.

My wife uh is uh really into that and it's paying dividends. >> That's great. >> And then we've got 890,000 in a brokerage account. >> Wow. And then our home, which we paid cash for in 2015, is worth about 200,000

now. >> That's amazing. Well done, Kelly. That's amazing. So, what kind of work do you both do? I mean, you mentioned the TSP and mentioned the military. Tell us about that. >> Yeah. Well, I'm retired military and my wife is still working. She's a nurse.

>> Okay. >> So, she's been able to work quite a bit of, you know, overtime is always there for her. >> Yeah. That's always >> one of the top careers we hear from people um that achieve a millionaire status is Yep. is uh Yep. in the medical

field in that way. Um okay. So, how long have you guys been married?

>> We got married in uh let me think here.

>> 2006. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Great. So what would you say maybe not as a maybe not as a married couple but as a you know while working what do you think the worst year

um financially how much did you make and then what was your best year and same with her if you know off the top of your head I'm just curious >> well when we first got married she wasn't working because she uh immigrated

here so >> okay yeah >> I probably made

probably like I was making 3540,000 in a

year. >> Okay. >> And we were we were deeply in debt. I was deeply in debt. Take that back.

>> So, um >> Oh, so you brought most of the debt into the relationship.

>> I brought all the debt. >> How much? >> You know, oh boy. How much did I have in debt back then? It was probably

uh I had student loans, car loans,

personal loans. I had it all. Yeah, I mean it. >> Yeah, it was probably close to uh 90,000. >> Wow. So, going from a negative net worth building it up to 2.4 million, what would you say the key? What were a couple of things that you did that you were like, this was this was a game changer for me.

>> I think the game changer was realizing that I had got myself in the mess and it

was me that's going to get myself out of the mess. >> That's so true. >> Yep. the personal responsibility aspect of it that you're going to be the thing that changes it.

Yes. >> And then I mean obviously you know you've got the spouse that's such an important part your partner and and accomplishing all this. I mean what would you say to the person? I mean we get calls all the time who they're trying to decide should I marry this person or maybe they're newly weds and they're trying to figure it out.

>> Oh for a couple uh one thing is you both

have to have the same principles and values.

you know, as far as money goes, if if

someone just doesn't mind being in debt and doesn't plan and doesn't set goals, I think that's a red flag because it's going to be a one-sided marriage and you're going to be carrying you're going to be carrying the burdens.

>> Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. So, you never gave us the top number. So, the lower number was around 35. What did you guys get up to in order to accomplish this income? probably just uh

just recently because with our dividends and that's one thing that changed was the Robert Kiyosaki book when I read that and it said that the wealthy don't work for money their money works for them. >> That's what we've been able to do is increase our money our income by passive income. So now it's about 150,000.

>> Wow. Way to go. >> Well done. >> Way to go. >> But during your during just your working lifetime, did you guys ever break 100 grand? Would you say >> we did towards the end of my >> okay >> military career but that was only like

>> you know within like uh maybe like a uh two three

years ago. >> Yeah 100,000 >> that's what's impressive and I think what a lot of people need to hear is that you know your income is powerful right it helps but you don't have to be making $300,000 a year to become a millionaire. Absolutely. you could be making under six figures, right? Like just like Kelly, you and your wife did.

But it's the diligence. I mean, the amount you guys have in investments, whether it's ETFs or, you know, your um you know, your retirement, you have almost a million in retirement. I mean, all of that, like that stuff adds up.

And it's just the consistency and the diligence of what you guys did. Again, you guys weren't making 300 grand, right? You barely even hit six figures just, but that's only in the last few years. That's not what created it. It was the consistency of the investing and you guys being wise and paying off your home and all of it. So, absolutely >> well done. So, so well done. And just curious, what did what role did the budget play for you? Like, were you budgeters or how did you do this?

>> Well, the budget is we uh we tracked every expense. I mean, we really uh we really really were

diligent. We really were intentional.

And I've known a lot of people, like you said, they make a lot of money, but they're broke. >> Yep. Yeah. >> So, you know, basically we made sure that after, excuse me, we paid ourselves

first. Like they always say, we made put money into our investments first >> and then what was left, that's what we used to pay our living expenses. So, if

>> we had to cut back on certain things, we did. >> Yeah. >> You know, but we're we were buying our freedom is what we were doing. >> I love that. >> Well, well done. Well done, Kelly. And to your wife as well, what's her name?

>> Uh, her name is Eg. EG, well done, Kelly

and EG. You guys are an inspiration. And what I really truly love about your story is that so many people think if you walk the baby steps, you you're g you're you're going to be an old man by the time you're a millionaire. And I just love that you guys are young. I mean, you've got your whole life in front of you. And what's you know, you've just you've got, like you said, you bought your freedom and you've got your time back. So, well, well done.

Thank you so much for calling in and encouraging everybody. So, so good.

>> Thanks, Jade. >> You bet. You bet. >> Well done, Kelly. Well done.

>> I love a call like that, Rachel, because it just it's so inspiring for people to actually see what's possible if you walk in. >> Well, and especially him, right? He's 57. So, we'll make up an age of when he started all this. I think he said it was about 20 years ago, right? So, he's 37 $90,000 in consumer debt.

>> And it just shows that you can still make the change, right? Wherever you are, you can still make the change. And he went from nothing a negative >> Yes. >> Uh deeply in debt, you know, nothing. No one gave them a hand out as you said like no inheritance inheritance.

>> Um but it is it's the consistency of what you're doing day in and day out.

And you know we're not as blunt to say like you know you have to do retirement first before lifestyle necessarily. We are big on like you know you want to you want to give save and spend. And so um but that idea that my future's worth it

that I'm going to I I'm going to make that the priority not the lifestyle today that's a that's a different mindset than most people. Most people they want to feel good today, right? And I and I get that, right? But at at at what expense?

>> Yeah. At what expense? >> And what it is is not sacrificing what you want mo most for what you want now in the moment. And I love that.

You know, I think the number one advice that I give to people is guys, the time is going to pass anyway. If you're 30, one of these days you're going to be 50. And if you're 40, one of these days you're going to be 60. And what you do with that 10, 15, 20 years, it matters.

And usually, here's the thing, it really is just like a 2 or threeyear window that if you can just pour on the gasoline and do what you need to do for a very short period of time, it affects that entire 10, 15 year, 20 year window substantially. So, please, please, please let Kelly and I believe her name was Eig. >> I like that. Let that be your inspiration.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

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All

right, our Ramsay scripture and quote of the day. Proverbs 12:11 says, "Those who

work their land will have abundant food, but those who chase fantasies have no sense." Thomas Jefferson said, "I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more of it I have." So good. All right. Adam is in Detroit, Michigan. Adam, how can we help today?

>> Hi. So, I am in an interesting

situation. I have a job offer which would move me out of state into Indiana.

um where we are looking to sell our house and use the money from our house

debts and then live with my in-laws for a couple months. And I just kind of wanted to get uh your opinion and some non-biased thoughts on if this is a good

idea, what should I be thinking about?

>> Well, financially. >> The first question was if you use the money to pay off the debt, why wouldn't you just rent an apartment or rent a house? Why would you have to live with the in-laws?

Um they they're they have a very big house. It would save us additional money where we could basically put my entire check to the side where we wouldn't

>> be, you know, spending just to spend.

You know, that's why I don't want to get into renting again. I think it would >> How much debt do you guys have, Adam?

>> Uh including my student loans, about 40,000. >> Okay. And um how much would this um if

you did was it you you were selling?

>> Correct. >> And how much would you get from that?

>> Uh I would say after uh the sale of the house and realtor fees and all that probably about 90k.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> So you clear the debt and you're left with 50. That's your emergency fund. And

the >> How much do you guys make a year?

>> I'm sorry. >> How much do you make a year? I make 100,000. >> Why don't you just pay off the 40,000 and stay in your home?

>> Uh it Well, the job moves me. Um >> Oh, that's right. You said that. Oh, I'm sorry.

You were moving. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Yeah, I got you.

>> Okay. So, once you take the job, you'll be making $100,000. You'll have no debt plus $50,000, part of which would be your emergency fund. I just How old are you guys?

>> Uh we're both 29. We turned 30 this year. >> Do you have kids? >> We have three kids.

>> Oh, man. I just can't see why you would need to live with family because you'll be in you'll have no debt. You'll have plenty of savings.

>> Are you are you um are you guys familiar with the area? Like would you want to know when when you buy a house where you want to be? >> Yeah. So, I mean I went to college in the area. My wife is from the area originally. >> Okay. >> So, we're very familiar. We have a lot of family and friends in the area.

>> Okay. Um, >> do you um >> My main thought was to, you know, take a

couple months to basically save up for 20% down on a house that we want.

>> And how Yeah. How how many Yeah. How long would you be there, would you say?

>> Uh, we said max 6 months we And that's

why I want to be smart about how much I pay off. >> So, >> versus how much I keep to the side.

>> Here's where we always

I feel like I don't know, especially Jade and I like we're on the same page with this. Well, we always kind of caution against the idea of just moving back home or moving in with, you know, the family. Um, because for the most of

the time, people just have this vague idea, hey, I'm going to move back home to pay off debt. And then you dig into the numbers and they've been home for six months, like, well, how much are you saving? Like, well, I, you know, I've actually gone $2,000 in credit card debt or whatever. And you're like, how have you gone in debt when you're living at home and you're saving money?

Because they don't really do it, right? they just kind of have this idea of it. It's not driven. It's not specific.

There's not a timeline.

would be I would somewhat entertain it for you guys in this situation is it's short enough. It's 6 months and to move somewhere and move out and get a six-month lease, you know, might be somewhat of a headache. Um, you know what you're going to be putting away.

And I would just say if you choose to do this, be be diligent about it because I

do think living with family over the long term, it just can erode the you know what I mean? Like there's a tension point to it >> and it's five of y'all that's a lot.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So if you guys know for sure there's an end timeline. It's no more than six months.

We're going to get because we're moving anyways. Like I don't know. I I would be I would be somewhat okay with it, Adam. Again, you guys have to be diligent cuz some people get in these situations and more than like or more than what we see.

They just get lazy about it. >> Sure. >> And they don't really put what they think they're going to put away um and all of it. So, you just have to be diligent.

>> Yeah. I I think the one the one thought process we had is my entire check which I which is about 6,000 a net a month.

>> Mhm. >> Uh I would set the entire 6 grand off to the side and it would just go into a separate account with the 50k that we have left over. >> Yeah. >> And my wife's account would pay for the car payments and the car insurance and all that stuff. >> Car payments. I thought that you were would be totally debtree. Uh they I have two leases. So those those I didn't include those in the 40,000. >> When are those leases up?

>> Uh her lease is up in May and then mine has another two years on it.

>> Oh boy. >> Are y'all going to be paying for it to to to own the car? Are you guys just done after the lease and have to, you know, buy a new car?

>> Uh we talked about possibly buying out her lease on her car >> and then um >> soing from there. those act obviously add to the timeline.

>> So, I mean, I would sit and and plan

that out because obviously my next question for you before you said the lease was going to be how much do you need to save up for this down payment?

Like, what's the exact number and run that back? But now you have to add in, okay, what is it going to cost to possibly buy buy out these leases or what's it going to cost at the end of the lease to now buy something in cash, right? So, those are real numbers in the

higher thousands to be aware of. Um, and

that could really set this on a longer journey. So, if you had to spitball it right now, what would you say the cost car-wise is going to be for you guys?

>> It's a great question. I know like our monthly payments right now is about 800 between the two cars. >> Between the two. Okay.

So, your wife's is over in May. I mean, that's creeping up here in a little bit. What do you think you'll do? I mean, >> go buy a $6,000 car with one of your month's paychecks.

>> Yeah.

There's no parameter to keep you in line. So, just be aware of that. If I had to vote for this, and I think Rachel and I are split. If I had to vote for it, I think I'd vote no. I think I'd vote get get an up get like rent somewhere and decide if you like the area and be on your own with your three kids. But if you didn't do that, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. The decision is not going to make or break you. It just could create bad habits though >> um that you don't even realize because the lifestyle creep that could happen.

again hypothetical but you know you're not paying for the you know it's just it's just that ongoing which you guys know you're adults Adam I mean you guys have done you you've been homeowners you know you know the deal >> but um it's just that it's just getting lazy on any of the numbers and then actually pushing things that you wouldn't have pushed otherwise like getting a nicer car that you wouldn't have done if you were paying rent paying bill like living in reality changes the numbers you're going to be living in reality hopefully in 6 to 8 months you know when you when you have a house, but making sure always too, Adam, that you guys have that emergency funds and all of it.

So, yeah, you and your wife um that's the homework is figuring out what these create real numbers. Don't just make it something up in the clouds. Say tonight or sit down this weekend and say, "Okay, lease is coming up in May. What's the plan?

What are we going to spend?" and make a hard concrete number and then decide about your lease and say are we really going to ride this car payment thing out for two more years or you know can we buy this thing out decide and figure out whatever research due diligence you have to do get that actual number and then from there it's then saying okay realistically in this area to get the payment underneath 25% of our take-home pay what must our down payment be and you might look at that number and go oh gosh in order for us to do that >> is going to take longer that could like 10 months or that could be like 14 months and then that might cause you to pull back a little bit and decide, do we really want to live with in-laws for over a year?

So, I can just see this snowballing really quickly. So, just be on top of it. >> Yeah. And the hard thing with lease cars, too, is usually, not always, >> you know, you usually can afford a lease payment of a nicer car than if you got a car payment, right?

And so, even the type of car you guys, if you don't do the buyout that you're going to get, it may not be as nice as the current car you're driving, too. So, just be be thinking through kind of the scenario and don't let your lifestyle creep, you know, outweigh smart decisions. >> So true.

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## 99. Lean Into Hard Things—That’s Where Change Happens | October 31, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `6C5pCmFtb8c` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C5pCmFtb8c) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:00:40 |

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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm John Deloney joined by Rachel Cruz.

>> Here we are. Here we are >> back again. >> We slapped it up, flipped it, and reverse it. And I'm driving today and we're here to help you make the next right move in your money and your work and your relationships, your life. Let's go out to Boston to Boston and get a loa and talk to Derek. Uh, let's see here.

What's up, Derek? How we doing, brother?

>> Hey, how we doing, team?

>> We're good, man. What's up?

>> Awesome, man. Hey, so um been watching you guys for a little while. Um, love the content. Um, I am currently with my

significant other. We've been together for three years. Um, in in the last three years, we've been able to overcome a lot of obstacles such as, you know, alcoholism and some addiction. And, um,

we're on the right path. We just had a baby, but when it comes to finances, uh,

it seems that we have a hard time communicating and getting on the same page. So, um I I love what you guys do

and I figured I'd give you a shout and just see uh you know if you could help point us in the right direction. >> Dude, that's fantastic, man. So, tell me about um you said overcoming alcoholism.

That's a that's a that's a a bold

statement, man. Tell me how y'all are working through that.

>> Honestly, it was just a decision. Uh you know, one day uh I I started with me. I

was just tired of the way life was going and uh you know had a lot of things that had happened that were just you know I guess would say rock bottom and >> very cool. Are you going to meetings every day? >> I'm not but I will never touch it again.

I'm I'm It's been three years and I'm

I'm in a good spot now. >> I'm proud of you, man. That's fantastic. >> Yeah, it's amazing. >> All right. So, when you come when you say it's hard to get on the same page with money, tell me about that.

Um right now uh you know because of the baby I am the sole income. Um you know

she she came into a little bit of money by selling some land. Um I am the one

that's paying for most of the bills and whatnot and uh you know she's paying down her debts. Um but uh it's just it's

when I'm you know paying for most of the bills it's been hard for me to build up my my savings account. Um, and uh, so

it's just, you know, how to figuring out how to navigate through this. It's uh, it's tough. You know what I mean?

>> You're not going to like the way I start this, okay? And so you can just ignore me, but I I've got to say this. You're going to continue to struggle mightily in this area, especially now that y'all are linked forever because y'all created a human together until you decide to marry this person. and y'all get married and you decide that individually y'all's stuff is now y'all's stuff. >> Yeah. Cuz the hard thing, Derek, is it's almost like you guys are playing house.

You're playing marriage without it actually being that. And that keeps being the runin of I'm having to provide

because I have a baby and a girlfriend

who's dependent upon my income now in order to support herself >> and she's paying for her debts with her land that she sold. >> It's very convoluted. I want to get my savings. You get what I'm saying? The path forward here is for y'all to >> make official what y'all have been dancing around for a while and then go full in. It's y'all's debt. It's y'all's money from the land sale. It's y'all's savings account. And then you begin

building this thing together.

>> Yeah. >> Is marriage in the discussion, Derek, at all?

[snorts] >> Um, it's been a thought. She's been married before, we we haven't really had this conversation, but um

>> Yeah. Okay. So, I would say where you guys are at relationally from a from a financial perspective, which is difficult because again, she just had a baby. Is she going to go back to work or is she on maternity leave? What's her um what's her plan?

>> Um I the the plan as for right now is

for me to be the the sole income just because I I do make a decent amount of money. >> Okay. Yeah. So what I mean what I would say though, Derek, is again because of the situation, if I were her almost if she had called in, I would tell her girl, "You got to go to work because he could wake up tomorrow and be like, >> "I'm done.

I'm done." And then and then she's screwed. And there's no official marriage. So there's nothing no nothing the courts can do. There's no splitting assets.

Like there's nothing on her end that's protecting her. And so that scares me for her. So what I would say in a perfect world, she goes and gets a job. You're working.

And if you guys choose to live together, not be married, you're splitting the bills 5050.

because she has to learn how to support herself because if you end up walking out her she's she's up a creek, you know? And so I'm not saying you're going to do that. I hope you're not. But the fact that y'all haven't even talked about marriage, I'm like, >> and and and here's the the second layer here, dude, is um

she's just over there making her plans.

So even your language like I guess I'm I guess she's just going to stay at home. Oh my good. Here's what money does. It reveals what you what matters to y'all

>> to both of you. And it also reveals your shared values. It reveals the path y'all

have decided to take together.

>> What you're scared of, your fears, >> what? Yeah. What what freaks you out? And so maybe for you, money is revealing. I need some I'm a I'm a I'm a dad now, man. I need some savings

>> to feel safe. And she might say, I'm a mom now.

to build together and then money is going to reveal the path. Do we want to get let's get out of debt as quick as we can? Let's get some savings so that we can both exhale in this house so this baby doesn't grow up in a house of tension. Let's decide, okay, we're going to stay at home.

You're going to stay home for a year, maybe two years. We want to have a second kid. Right? You see all these deeper values conversations.

Money just reveals. It's just the it's just the lights on the dashboard that are telling you where you're going and how how good your car is. >> Yeah, makes sense. So, if you sit down with her and say, "How about this?

the the the premium version, the best budgeting app, and y'all sat down, could y'all create something together?" >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Would you would you have the courage to do the next right thing with

her and say, "I'm interested in I know you got burned in a previous marriage.

I'm interested in being in your life forever and in this baby's life forever." Absolutely. >> Okay.

That to me is is the next what I would say is the responsible thing. And dude, I've been digging into all the data on marriage. And if people decide that we're going to be married together, it takes both of you. We want to have a good or great marriage. Every part of your life improves. It's a it's extraordinary. Financial, the amount of sex you have, the the how your health outcomes, everything is a a massive ROI

on that way. But you have to both choose that we're going to do this thing together.

>> Yeah, that makes perfect sense. >> Yeah. And you and you guys do have, you know, not that everyone has it easy by any means, but I mean you guys have come over addiction. She's been married previously. So there's there's some >> you can do hard things. Yeah. >> Yes. There's some elements here that are really, I think, great for you guys that I mean it just shows that you guys can persevere uh push through, but don't let those things also keep you stuck.

>> Yeah. They can act like shadows. Like, uhoh, what about remember when?

>> Man, you've overcome. You're here. You've done amazing things.

>> Now, we're going to take the next harder step, which in my opinion is y'all sit down and have a hard conversation about getting married and making this thing official so both of y'all can feel safe and then joining this thing and knocking [music] out the debt and the savings together.

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You do not have to buy anything to be able to win. Let's go out to Austin, Texas to the 512 and talk to Sam. What up, Sam?

>> Hi. How's it going? >> Good, brother. How are you, man?

>> Living the dream out here. Living the dream. >> Very cool. Y'all recovered from that F1 trip. That was a wild weekend, huh?

>> F1 trip. I don't It's been a team weekend here. I'm not sure. >> Oh, good. I think a few weeks ago there was that F1 like 5 million people showed up in Austin, Texas. Wild, dude.

>> Oh, yeah. No, we're a little on the outskirts. So >> Oh, very good. Well done. Well done. All right. So, what's up, brother?

>> Yeah. I'm just trying to get some guidance on how to uh merge mine and my

girlfriend's finances.

Tell me more.

>> Um, so I make before taxes about 88. She

makes about 35. And uh, it, you know, we

spend most of our relationship together sort of broke college kids. And I'm about a year and a half into actually making some good money. And I'm just thinking, you know, why is she paycheck to paycheck and I'm over here, you know, putting into my retirement savings and all these things? That doesn't seem right.

So, I'm trying to find sort of the best way to merge those two. Um, and ideally kind of maintain a little bit of independence. You know, I'd like for her to have a savings account for her goals and me for mine and something for our goals as well. So, >> what's the situation?

>> Okay. Um, the number of people that we

have talked to over the years that combined income when they were dating or paid off each other's debt or bought each other a car or both bought a house together and then they broke up. And I know y'all are perfect. Y'all are never going to break up, but I would not have a job if everyone's plans worked out the way they thought, right? Mhm.

>> And the thing about we always tell people when you get married, the day you get home from your honeymoon, put everything in the same account, right?

>> But um and this sounds kind of gross to say, but when you're married, there's a legal process for separating assets, >> right? >> When you're just college kids, there's not. >> And you can find yourself in a situation where you've paid for somebody to go to college and then she just breaks up with you because the quarterback >> pay for her life, >> right? Or you pay for her life for you or whatever. I'd much rather you get yourself set up and become the most

marriable version of yourself possible and begin practicing these things in your life. And if you want to pay for dinners and all that, that's awesome.

Um, and you want to make sure she never has to, I don't know, yeah, buy buy meals and you can take her on a trip, like whatever you want to do, fine. I would not get into combining finances and saving together and creating retirement plan. I mean, I just wouldn't get I wouldn't go down that road, man, because there's no path for separation when it goes sideways.

>> Interesting. So, excuse me. I'm I'm getting all dry in the throat because I'm nervous being on >> No, you're good. You're good. >> Uh >> I'm not very good at this, man. You don't have to be nervous about anything. [laughter] >> Does Does your answer change or your

viewpoint change at all if I say, "Okay, we've been together seven years. I mean, we you know, have I say we we live in a home together, right? We've built a home. that does not mean we own a house together. Um, and if anything is the next step, it is marriage. Does that change your answer at all or would you say no there's a ring?

>> No. Okay. >> Because I mean I talked to people who who've been married for 20 years and they split up. So yeah, >> people that have just Yeah. Yeah. Um, and for her Sam for her sake kind of like the last caller, you know, I think about it from her perspective and you were like it feels unfair that she, you

know, I can't remember the wording you said and I'm like no it is fair. she's working and making $35,000 and she has to learn how to manage that well within herself because you know if I don't know I and who knows what happens right and like John said you I'm sure y'all will be together forever which is great but if not if for some reason in six months something changes >> and she's been dependent upon you for so long >> um and you're and you walk out >> well then she's got to figure out a whole life with making $35,000.

guys did you buy a house together? Are you renting together? What?

>> No, we're renting together. >> Renting. Okay. So, yeah, if what I would advise you guys to do is you just split everything 50/50. Um, and if you choose

to do something different, that's totally fine, but just remember always in the back of your head that this is your income that's not protected at all from a legal standpoint because there's no marriage. And um and if something

were to happen, you're you're just going to have to say swallow the pill of dang, for two years I >> put her through college. >> I probably Yeah. There's probably, you know, $30,000 or whatever that I gave to this woman that I'm not going to have in my retirement, X, Y, and Z. Um Right.

>> So So if you do, so I would go 50/50 on everything. That's what I would do because I would want her >> to understand how she needs to budget and the decisions she has to make. And again, like John said, if you want to, if you want to pay for dates or whatever you want to do, you can. But just know that the any amount of money that you are going over on her end over her 50%,

it's a little bit of a gamble financially. >> It's a gift. If y'all been together seven years, what are you waiting for?

>> Um, >> or do you use Dave's language? Y'all are playing house. Why Why not go make it official and start building something with deep roots to it?

>> Sure. Well, to be honest, the reason is because deep roots got me got my dad living on someone's couch after it didn't work and it got her mom donating plasma to keep food on the table after their deep roots didn't work. >> Okay, >> that's sort of the main thing. And >> so, let me let me let me let me take that and I I think that's a very real honest answer that nobody ever gives me.

And so, I want to shout you out. I would hug you if you were here because that's a that's a very honest answer. You've seen marriage go awful >> and so you're hesitant to jump into that. What I would tell you is that's like going to the gym and seeing somebody lifting weights, seeing a whole bunch of people lifting weights. Maybe you went to one of the original CrossFit gyms and everybody's getting hurt.

That doesn't mean that exercise is bad.

In fact, exercise is really, really important. What then becomes important is I got to learn how to do this well and do this right and do this safely over the long haul.

>> Right? And so if you look at the marriage on data, there's a reason Jeff Bezos is getting remarried, >> there's a reason why the the people who are running these massive that's why they all go do it is because it has deep

powerful benefits that are spiritual, that are emotional, that are financial, that are sexual. It's got all of it's incredible. If you make the decision to

go all in and learn those skills that

your parents didn't have >> and avoiding it or trying to do a hack around it, which is we're just going to do everything but that that actually is going to set you up to get you into more trouble down the road. >> Statistics are are worse what what you guys are doing. >> But dude, I your fear is is real honest.

It's wired into your nervous system, man. You've got a you've got a picture of a car wreck. That doesn't mean you never drive again. That means you go sit with a professional. That means you learn how to drive really, really well, defensively and safely so that you can drive for the long haul. >> Because too, Sam, I'm sure you guys want to start a family, right? I mean, you would love to have kids with her, I would assume.

>> Yeah, we're not so certain about that.

>> Okay, never mind. >> Jeez, Rachel, [laughter] relax.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say that's >> Kids are great. >> Sorry. you. [laughter] Hey, you're here because somebody had kids, but you called you

called just for um just for the budgeting part. >> Um but >> how old are you guys? >> Yeah. How old are you?

>> I just turned 29. She's going to be 28 here in a second. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Mhm. >> The the the the best thing I can tell you to do is to have a deeper conversation about facing that fear.

>> Okay. >> Your anxiety when it comes to getting married is real and it's earned and I honor that. And I'll tell you, every bit

of data says if you will go in and do the hard work of having a good or great marriage, everything in your life is

better. >> Gotcha. Okay. Well, I appreciate it, guys.

>> You're the man. Appreciate you, brother. We wish you the best. And if uh you want to come down here to Nashville and get married, >> um there is a pedal tavern waiting for you and all of your friends because this is where everybody comes before they get married.

Did you get a pedal tavern, Rachel? No, you >> I was married 15 16 years ago. They didn't have those here. >> Oh, they didn't.

No. >> Oh, they had horse and carriages and all that stuff [laughter] back then. >> It's a long time ago.

>> Oh, man. >> Just a bunch of people. >> Man, Sam, I'd like for y'all to have kids. I don't know. >> They're going to after you get married. >> I like Sam. >> Sam's a real deal. >> Mhm. >> We'll be right back.

>> [music]

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[music]

Let's go out to Denver, [music] Colorado, and talk to the great and wonderful Aubrey. Hey, Aubrey. What's up? >> Hi. Um, I'm excited to be talking to you guys. I'm doing good. >> I am excited to talk to you. What's going on?

Um, well, I've been following your content more recently. I I really like the things that you share, especially around marriage. Um, and that's something like I've applied to my life, so I've been married for about 10 years.

My husband and I have three kids. Um, >> y'all are in it right now.

>> Yeah. So, hopefully you don't hear any screaming, but um, we've got kids at our

house, too. It's all good. [laughter] >> Thanks. We're we're we're happy. We've been working really hard financially, so we both work. Um, and uh, we do

we're working really well towards our goals. Um, and so the reason I'm calling today is um, I've I like to try and turn

around and and pay it forward. And so I've um, we've been helping my mom out.

So my mom, she's a single lady. She has my sister who's about 11 and they have

been moving in and out of apartments, not great apartments and such. And so we're blessed enough to have two houses.

We live in one and they both have Airbnb basement. So we decided to rent the second one, the top level to my mom and my sister. And with the with the condition of like, hey, we're going to be Airbnbing the the basement because we live near ski resorts. So that's been really good for us. Um and she understood that. And we give her reduced rent. Um we do make her pay rent, but reduced just because we want to help her out. >> Sure. Very cool.

>> Yeah. And uh it hasn't it's been a couple years and we've kind of run into some major problems. So >> what are the Yeah. What are the problems? >> She kind of is a hoarder. Um and so at

first it wasn't bad, but it like accumulates over time, which at first I was like, you know what? Like I'm going to let her like live in the house the way she wants to as long as the outside of the house is okay. >> Um but long story short, um we now have a cockroach infestation in the house, which is really bad. and we got a lot of

like bad Airbnb reviews and so we just we just had to cut the Airbnb income which is not great. >> Yeah. >> And so we're trying to navigate that because I obviously we want to help my mom but at the same time it's kind of biting us in the butt. So I'm calling to see if you have any recommendations.

>> Yeah. Remember this line, the tension is the path.

>> Okay. >> So that sounds all woowoo. where the uncomfortable conversation is, that's where you got to head directly.

>> Yeah. >> And so you guys know what has to happen here. Either there's two there's there's two things y'all know have to happen. Either she's got to move out and y'all have to have exterminators come in. Y'all going to have to do some work on that place and get it back up and running. Or she gets to stay under some very strict new rules. One of which is no hoarding.

We're going to have a cleaning crew.

We're like we're going to do some of those things. um or the and and y'all know that one of those two things has to be true. And so the path is not trying to figure out a nice way to do that because it's nothing you do moving forward is going to be received as nice.

>> Yeah. >> And you've probably been doing this dance your whole life, right?

>> Yeah. Unfortunately. >> Yeah. And it breaks my heart for you. It breaks my heart for your mom, especially this 11-year-old little girl.

>> Uhhuh. >> Um but you all have to take that path in directly towards it. And now if you if you sit down and say, "Here's not, "Hey, mom, we need to but hey, this is what's going to happen next.

If you want to stay in this house, um we're going to have a cleaner come in. We're going to have all the stuff's going to have to be removed, and we're going to have somebody come in every 30 days and check the house. If you want to stay here, great." Will she pack up and move um and throw a fit or would she exhale and say, "Thank you." >> I I honestly don't know. Um I think it could go either way. So, um, that's kind

of tricky. And >> here's what's going to happen. If you say nothing and you do nothing, >> the house just goes into further dis. It ends up with her leaving at some point.

>> Yeah. >> And so, um, also, here's another great line to put in your back pocket. Choose guilt over resentment.

>> Choose the guilt of the hard conversation and not she doesn't deserve

you're resenting her existence. And if you let her live there and just destroy this house from the inside out, I'm going to put that back in your court

>> because you didn't want to have hard conversations because it was going to make you feel bad. It was going to hurt your mom's feelings. And so every time her phone you pick up your phone and she's called in, you're going to resent the fact that she's there.

>> You're going to resent the fact that she's calling you. you're gonna resent the fact that she >> they have a little bit of that now because you had to close the Airbnb, you know, like I'm like >> and and you even knew like, well, she's kind of a hoarder, but as long as she keeps it here and as long as you knew how it was going to end, right? And so it's you just saying, okay, I'm going to own what I've got to own here and then I'm going to create what happens next.

>> Yeah. Um, one way I could see it going

too, and I'd love to hear your thoughts, is like us laying the ground rules like, "Hey, this needs to happen in order for you to stay." and her like saying like, "Oh, yeah, sure." and then not really following them.

So, [laughter] how would you navigate that? Like, you give her one warning and then say, "Sorry, we're going to end your lease." >> Well, I would put some things in place.

>> Uhhuh. >> Like a cleaning crew will come here every 30 days or every two weeks. I'm going to put that on your rent.

>> Um or we're going to cover it, but somebody will be here every every two weeks. Um, if the we're going to double

the trash service, I would put some very concrete things in place that are really outside of her control. These things aren't going to help her to help her because these are things to like >> correct. Yeah. This is this is in service of her and of that home.

>> But to your point, Aubrey, if for some reason it's just it's unmanageable and the cleaners are like, we can't even >> we can't get in the door. >> Yeah. Then all of it um Yeah. Then then to me that is a that that that that's her then breaking the boundary that you guys set and that's on her at that point not you.

So she has in that sense displaced herself because she didn't keep the rules of the property which any landlord would have right it's just messy that it's her daughter right was she kicked out of you said that she was going from apartment to apartment.

one I think she was politely kicked out

and um the other one I actually don't

know but I know she got in a big actual legal disagreement with the landlord over her um security deposit.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> So, she has a history of not being a great tenant, right?

>> Yeah. And we knew that. And maybe another thing to put on the table if y'all are in a financial position is to say, "We're going to pay for six months for you to go see somebody finally

>> and you've had a hard life. We know you've had a hard life and you struggle with various mental health challenges and emotional challenges. We're going to put we got six months of counseling.

We're going to put that, but this is contingent. Um, if you want to stay, you got to go see somebody and we're going to pay for it." >> Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. That's a great suggestion. Thank you.

Um, but that might give her an excuse to go, uh, fine, I'll go see somebody so I can keep my house. But it lets her hang on to like the illusion of dignity while going to actually get the care that she knows. She knows she needs I've never met a hoarder who wants to be in that situation.

>> Yeah. Right. Yeah. >> But it's that compulsion. It's just it's just this inner engine that just keeps running. And so maybe that's another way to help. But it's going to come down to you having some really clear, firm here's the boundary and here's the exit strategy if and when this happens.

>> Are your husband where is he in the picture? Is he is he overly frustrated?

Is he like done or is he have like tons of grace and he's on the other side of you even?

>> He So I I kind of poor guy. I kind of

put him in as a mediator because my mom and I don't have a great history. I I basically do it for my little sister and he's on board with that. 100% on board.

Yeah, >> he's definitely like on the frustrated side. >> Um because we've had to replace the fridge because she was, you know, putting too much stuff in the fridge and other things and >> Okay. So, Aubrey, I'm going to ask John.

>> Yeah. You have to relieve him of that.

>> Yeah. You got to put him in that situation. You have to be the one.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's fair.

>> Hug him and say, [laughter] "Thank you for going first and he went out on his shield for you and it's time for you to just to just to to step up." and or y'all can do it together obviously, but um my rule of thumb is the the child of

the parent needs to go first.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that's fair.

>> It's hard. It's hard, Aubrey. I mean, we get calls and not necessarily with the specific thing, but whenever a grown adult passes their parent.

>> Yeah, it's tough. >> And they end up having to parent their parent. Do you know what I mean? Like from that emotional side, all of it, like it's just it's it's really really hard. Um, so I think y'all's generosity

and you lending out kind of that olive branch to her, wanting to help her in life and for your sister, I understand that's part of the motivation is just so beautiful. It's so wonderful. But being able to do it, I think in a way that's good for you guys, too, right? That you're not Yes. Exactly.

>> Is there a chance your um sister can move in with you?

>> Oh, I would wish that, but I don't think that's ever going to be a possibility.

Okay. >> Yeah. Y'all have got some hard conversations to have. I would sit down with your husband and y'all write these things out and I would probably put everything in writing and then you all sit down and have the next hard conversation. The tension is the path here.

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All right, let's go out to Indiana and talk to David. What's up, David? How we doing, brother?

>> Doing good. How you all doing? >> Doing great. What's going on, man?

>> Uh, not too much. I just had a question uh about buying silver. Uh, we had some friends that that that did that and they got, you know, pretty big returns on that and we were just we didn't know if that was a good decision or not.

>> No, not a great one. Um, just because David, usually commodities like that, gold, silver, all of it is so dependent upon honestly the fear of what's going on in the current moment. So if something bad's happening around the world, usually that stuff spikes and then if everything's good and everything's fine, it dips. And so um,

you can really see a correlation with the amount of fear that the American people have in life and if it's if there's a lot going on and something scary is happening, all of those prices go up. And so um so overall your

investment strategy should just be in the market. It sounds more boring and all of it. And people also will take on

precious metals and stuff for not just an investment purpose but they do it for like an end of the world apocalyptic you

know plan. Um to think that if something were to happen to the US dollar like that they have a bunch of gold and stuff. And listen I love conspiracy theory. I could uh [laughter] I could go down that rabbit hole really fast, but the truth is if everything in if literally the US dollar did just completely crash, like if if we had no currency, but but gold and silver,

that's not even going to be something that's worth it because at that point, >> I still have to trade that for coffee. >> The way the world Yeah. I mean, it's going to be ammo and food and clean water like Right. Like I'm like, it's that that's not even a little bag of gold. Everyone's like, I don't need that. I need food and shelter. Right. So at that point um so just overall yeah

just an investment strategy that's just more proven over time has a longer track record of a consistent you know an idea of like a consistent return that you can see it is it's still in the market >> and here like the existentially or

philosophically like you've got that answer right but I would tell you like okay >> on the ground >> the wealthiest guy I know personally that I hang out with is Dave Ramsey and he owns zero dollars of silver or gold commodities.

>> Okay, >> that's for me and my house.

>> We owe zero dollars of silver and gold.

So, I don't put my personal money for me and my family into that stuff.

>> Okay, that that was kind of my what I was thinking, but I just kind of wanted to make sure. I know we did the total money makeover and, >> you know, we have our money in, you know, in a 401k and then some CDs. Yeah, >> I've been retired for five years, but we just heard some, you know, someone was, >> you know, bought quite a bit of it and the price of silver went up, but that was I I was kind of leaning toward, you know, what you all just said, but I just >> Yes.

Yeah. And you know what? And they could have, you know, they could have sold when it was high. >> You can scratch a lottery ticket, dude.

Everybody does. They And somebody wins every day.

Someone said this years ago, and I was like, that is so true. They're like, "If they have commercials on cable TV, it's always reverse mortgages buying gold and silver and walk-in bathtubs." Like, like [laughter] that's the that's the >> there's a market they are praying on.

>> I mean, genuinely. So, you're like, "Okay, if they're going after a group of people um you know, for these things

like reverse, all of it." I'm like, "Eh, probably not the product that I want to put my my money into."

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, I know I've I've, you know, heard Dave say that the more the higher interest that you get on on investment, the riskier it is.

>> Well, not necessarily, but it's it's

>> it becomes more of a of a lottery shoot, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Just kind of >> and I mean, I would say you look at the stock market last year, David, if you guys looked at your 401k, it was like >> 24%. I mean it was last year was crazy

crazy returns and that was very safe all

in you know index funds or mutual funds nothing nothing wild. So um so sure the economy can go up and down absolutely but it's not as volatile as commodities or precious metals like what you're saying. So yeah from an investment strategy we would uh we'd say now you're better off doing Yep. having your money exactly what you're doing.

>> Keep being boring dude. just keep being boring because that same friend's going to come back next month and be like, "I just lost all my pants on silver." And you're gonna be like, "Oh, well, there you go." Just goes up and down, up and down. Let's go out to Pennsylvania and talk to Sean. Where is he?

What's up, Sean?

>> Hey, how you doing?

>> Good for my call. >> What's up? >> Hey. Okay, so my wife was a travel nurse

and we financed an RV fifth wheel and uh

currently upside down on it by $40,000.

>> Oh man, >> dude. That's a that's a kick in the guts, man. >> Yeah. And so we bought a house because we were going to we decided to settle down and we're going to get rid of the RV. Well, when we went to go get rid of the RV, we found out that we were 40,000 upside down.

>> Okay. >> And >> can I ask who who gave you the estimate of what it's worth today?

>> Um I I blueooked it.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> And I've I've tried private settlement.

I've tried going to a dealership. Dealership of course is going to get give you >> Yeah. >> very low number on. >> So what did y'all What did y'all buy it for? uh bought it for $100,000 >> and it's worth now because I'm sure

>> it's worth >> we we've uh had it for a couple years.

Uh >> we owe 80,000 on it right now and it's

currently worth 40.

>> Man, do you have any savings?

>> Uh $1,000 baby emergency fund.

>> Okay. How much do you guys make a year?

>> 180,000. >> Okay. Well, that's a good thing. I mean, >> roughly, >> honestly, Sean, at this point, I would I

would still, you know, if someone will take it, that's great. You're just gonna have to pay the difference. Um, and a part of me would love for y'all to save up and have that cash versus going and taking out a smaller loan. But if you if you did get if you have it for sale and for some reason someone like I don't know, messaged you and was like, "Oh, great.

I would love to buy this thing." Then you'd have to go get a small loan for the difference. >> Well, it would be small. Be a $40,000 loan. compared to 80,000.

I'm trying to help Sean out. [laughter] I'm just saying I'm saying it's no big deal. You can do this.

>> Yes. >> That might just be this one, brother.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> A very painful painful 40,000. I mean, I

can't even That's a lot of money, dude. But that hurts. But there's not a quick other pass. >> It feel Yeah. It feels better than 80.

>> Yeah. >> I And I kind of got I was I got a little dumb with it. LA. Uh, last year I went

to go sell it to a dealership and they were going to give me 54 and I was like, "Well, it's kind of still a little low.

I'm upside down like $25,000." And then

I went to go do it this year and they're like, "Oh, we'll give you 40." And I was like, "Oh, that turn." >> Yeah. Those things depreciate off. I know. Anything with motors and wheels is just a >> all the way down.

>> Um, yeah. I mean that I mean that's just what you're going to have to do, Sean. I hate to say it, but um but but I would but I would rather pay off 40,000 than 80. So I hope you get it sold and and and I would just put the 40,000 like a like baby step too.

>> Um so of course you've got we've got the house and then I've got a couple of personal loans, couple credit cards.

>> How how much is how much are those?

>> Uh credit cards uh roughly about 25,000.

>> Okay. Um, personal loan. I've got a uh that's

about uh well I pay it's like5 $7,000 for the

personal loan. >> Okay.

Uh and that's it.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So yeah. Yeah. It'll be around,000 beater card. >> Yep. That's good. That's good. Yeah. So 70,000. But you guys uh ton you make

180, right?

I mean, before taxes. So, yeah. I mean, I would I would force myself, Sean. You know, golly, I would try to live on nothing.

Beans and rice. Rice and beans. Yeah. I mean, like, oh, easily. Yeah, for sure.

Give yourself 18 months and y'all just knock it out and just do nothing with your lives but work and eat at home and

pay this debt off.

>> All right. that I'm sure we've we've

struggled before and we've, >> you know, pulled ourselves out of it before. So, when this kind of was, >> okay, let's don't do that anymore. Let's learn. Stop. Let's cut up the cut up the credit cards. No more personal loans.

Like, once you guys get through this and pay it off, be done. Be done with it.

Learn. Like, everyone does stupid stuff.

So, there's nothing there's no shame in that. But, it's kind of stupid to go back and redo stupid stuff over and over again. [laughter] Like, we don't want to do that. >> And and and we we did it.

We did it because we were we were actually treating it as a house for the RV cuz >> Yeah, but it's a terrible investment. Real estate goes up, RVs go down. So, you guys need to do some do some more digging and research. >> It's one of those things like we wanted this to be true, so we figured out a way to make it true and that choice just came up back and bit [music] you to the 40 grand.

Totally.

Y'all be debtree in no time. Let's get after it.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, [music] we're here here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

I'm John Deloney joined by Rachel, the one and only Cruz, and we are going to walk alongside you as we figure out what's the next right step with your money, with your relationships, with your work, whatever you got going on in your life, we are here to help. Let's go out to New York City. Man, they have not

been in the news recently. And talk to Nicole. What's up, Nicole?

>> Hi. >> How's it going?

>> I'm doing okay. Happy to be on the phone with you guys. >> We are happy that you called. What's going on?

So, I'm calling um currently on baby step two. My husband and I have paid off

um all of our credit card debt um over

the past couple years. We paid off our cars and most of my student loans.

>> Good for you guys. Well done.

>> Yeah, that's awesome. >> Thank you. However, over the past four years, um my husband, he developed a gambling problem. Uh >> oh. >> Um we >> Take a breath. Take a breath. Take a breath. Take a breath. Take a breath. You're good. >> You're good. >> We worked so hard to pay off all of this money and now he had racked up around

21,000 of credit cards and

depleted pretty much all of our savings.

>> Um he was laid off unfortunately um in

May. He was unemployed for the past five

months and he actually just started a new job this week. So that's >> finally something positive.

>> Yeah. >> Um I just feel conflicted because I feel

like we were working so hard to make so much progress and then we took a big step backwards

and now I have all of this credit card debt um that I feel like is just like

another mountain to climb and I feel conflicted. Do I pay off the credit card debt that he racked off? Um, we had separated our accounts in the process of all of this because I kind of wanted to get a better handle on things. >> Yeah.

Which you should have. Got to keep yourself safe. That was the right move. That's right.

>> And um, you know, I've been working to pay down um, I just have a small amount of student loan left. Um, and I've been working to pay that down. We kind of went into storm mode. Um, so I've just been paying the minimum on that for the past couple months.

But >> so here's here's how I want you to look at this. Okay.

>> I want you to think of it as though he

had a romantic interest outside of your marriage. We call what he did around here financial infidelity. He cheated on you with money.

Y'all made a commitment.

Y'all etched it into stone and he went behind your back and did something else.

Okay? >> Right? >> And here's why that's important. When somebody calls and says, "Hey, my wife cheated on me and I think I want to try to make this work and I don't know what to do next." One of the first things I'll have them do is to create a 30 or 60 day path back to trust.

And you get to decide, the person who gets cheated on gets to decide what rebuilding trust will look like. And the person who did the cheating gets to decide, are they in or are they out on this path? And so if it was another woman, you might say, "I don't want you walking around. I want you to cancel all your social media accounts.

further. or it it's counterintuitive, but it further separates you guys. And the only way I'll survive this sort of betrayal is to decide we're both going

to take a step back in, but not blindly and not naively, but with a path. And you get to decide what that path is. So, question one is, do you want to stay married to this guy?

>> Yeah. >> Okay, >> I do. >> You have to deal with two things I heard. One is betrayal, financial betrayal. And the second one is just the

way you said he's been out of work for 5 months. you've lost respect for this as with him as a man.

>> Yeah. >> And so it's giving him a path back towards trust and giving him a path back towards earning respect.

And so my next question to you would be, okay, what does a path back to financial trust look like?

Well, that's kind of my question. Um because I've separated our accounts.

I've been trying to manage this kind of

on my own for, you know, the past little

bit. And he he stopped gambling, I would

say, like two months ago. >> How do you know? >> Um I mean, >> you Here's the deal. >> I haven't seen anything come out of our account. >> Okay. You don't you don't know. >> It wasn't working. >> Hold on. Hold on. You don't know, >> right? >> And so one thing you need is certainty.

I want you to go pull your credit reports. All six of them. Three for you and three for him. They're free. You can pull them. Okay. >> I want you to make sure.

And if he has gambling apps on his phone, I want you to a path back to trust might be saying, "Delete all those apps off the phone." >> Mhm. >> If he's got a group of guys that he went and hung out with and somewhere off, you know, 121st, I want you to say, I want you not spending time with those guys that are gambling every week. That's what I'm talking about. Um, I until his job starts, I want to see you getting up at 4:00 in the morning and Ubering until work day starts.

I want you to go throw boxes down the street with a moving company. And then when you get off, I want you to start to go work until 8:00 p.m. Drive an Uber to the airport and back. >> Mhm.

I'm just making some stuff up off the top of my head, but you want to see him

reinvest in you, reinvest in your marriage, and you want him to do things that are going to help him become more confident and more assure of himself. He's going to have to deal with the underlying challenge of why does he feel so dead in his skin that the only way he can feel alive in his life is to bet on

professional sports, right? He's got to go do that work. You get to decide what those things are. I can't give those to you. I can just give you some examples.

And so say he, you know, makes a turnaround and he, you know, decides

that he wants to stay in this marriage too and he is going to change his habits. At what point do I, you know,

kind of trust him and say that we can kind of

like join our finances again and kind of

>> I would put I would put I love calendar dates >> for and and to be clear, I want to try for 6 months. your check is going to deposit into this account that I have

>> and and and in six months if we're living through all these things and we are reestablishing trust together, you're continuing to follow the trust plan I put in front of you, in six months, we're going to sit down. I've already booked us a nice restaurant and we're going to go sit and talk about where is what's the state of our marriage now?

>> And if you feel still feel unsafe, then in six months you're going to say, I want three more months. or you're going to look at him and you're going to say, "I'm going to go all in again, but I have an extra $5,000 in this account that I'm going to hold for six months until I roll it into our joint emergency fund." Like, you get to decide those things. The thing I want you to be I want you to be specific and have some dates on the calendar.

You get what I'm saying? >> And I don't Yeah. I don't want that. And I don't want him to feel like I'm treating him like a child either.

>> Correct. But also, >> you're not you're earning back trust. >> Yeah. and you have to protect yourself.

You were very wise to separate your money >> and he made decisions that now there's consequences. There's real life consequences to a marriage that he has broken [music] in a sense. And so, um, so no, I don't think it's you being a parent. I think if there if he had never done this and this is what you're doing, I'd be like, "Woo, okay.

Something's going on, Nicole." But you're not crazy. Like, this isn't Yeah, this is not >> No, you did the right thing. >> Doesn't sound out of the box.

And then you're going to have to be uncomfortable. Well, there's going to be moments when he's following that path and you're not going to want to trust him and you're going to have to lean into that, too.

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And it costs nothing. It takes two seconds. Hit the subscribe button and we're super grateful. But more importantly, your neighbor who's never heard of us is going to be grateful when they start getting this stuff in their feed. All right, the question of the day. Our question of the day is sponsored by Y Rei. You did not take out

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>> Today's question comes from Mason in Wisconsin. He asks, "Is it better to teach kids about money using cash versus the popular debit cards like Greenlight?

Should they know how to handle tangible cash first before getting a debit card or does it matter?" Um, it's a good

question. I mean, I think obviously with little kids, it's going to be cash. You're not going to be handing them like a app, right? Because they they're not going to have a a phone or, you know, the app green lights to be able to, I guess, reconcile the debit card and to see the transactions come in.

Um, so if you're talking about little kids, yeah, I would say cash for sure. And I do think still as teenagers, I think, you know, having cash in the mix is big. But I also know in 2025 I'm like, you know, I mean, even like our high school babysitters, they use Vinmo, you know, that's how you pay them now. You don't pay them cash.

They because they have Apple Pay and they shop online and it is the world we live in.

way of money with teenagers faster than you probably would have 10 years ago. That's how my my answer probably would have been cash cash um for longer. But

now the world that they live in, yeah, I mean, it's just how they handle money. And so I almost want them to learn that responsibility of the method at which

they handle money and how they're going to handle money outside your home and understand how to use that really well too. So I would say both. I think having some cash is still great to let them experience, you know, a transaction when they're having to let go of some, you know, let go of money to get something else. I still think there's something wired in us that's really important. But I also know the reality of our world today and and it is it's it's online and it's apps and it's and it's cards. So

>> yeah, developmentally I want kids I want a tactile experience. I want them to hold money and be able to count it and see the one and the five and the coin. I think that I think holding it and seeing it spatially is important for a young kid. But >> we have a 15-year-old and we have we have a mix of both, right? And and again, like you say, it's I could give him a $20 bill on his cross country trip

or I can just >> ship it from his account. Right. And so,

um, yeah, it's just the world's changing. >> I know. It's crazy. Crazy. Crazy. I know. We were talking about digitals and phones and stuff during one of the breaks, but um, but we were even told like the high school football games, the tickets are on phones now. Like it's that kind of I'm like, it's just wild.

Yeah. I don't know. I feel like an old woman sometimes, but >> that's what we call you [laughter] behind your back. >> That That's >> Grandma Rachel. Let's go out to Seattle, Washington, home of [laughter] Alison James and talk to Star. What's up, Star?

>> Hello. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you guys. >> Thank you for calling, trusting us. What's up?

>> Um, yeah. So, to summarize everything, um, I'm a newly single mother of four since March of this year, >> man. uh for yeah um so I I do jointly own a

home with the father of my kids since 2021. Um we got it at a good, you know, 3% rate and the mortgage isn't too bad.

It's at um roughly 2,600 a month. And so

prior to the separation, I was a stay-at-home mom for 4 years. So um ever since the separation, he's no longer contributing with anything financially.

So, I've kind of been just like in this weird transition of trying to get back on my feet and >> and no child support. You guys weren't married, Star.

>> Not legally married, correct? >> Okay. Okay. >> I think he still has child support duties though, legally.

>> Correct. I just uh filed in August.

>> Okay. >> I know I took so long to do this, but I was just kind of >> No, there's a shell shop to it. Yeah.

>> And let me let me say this. the >> Yeah, >> you can have the greatest Let me take it away from the house cuz houses are so sensitive, especially with kids. If I

went outside and somebody was trying to

sell me a brand new jet that would cost

$15 million if I bought it new, they're trying to sell it to me for $500,000.

That would be an astounding deal.

The problem is I don't have $500,000.

So it might be a good deal in some marketplace. It wouldn't be a good deal for me because I don't have that money.

And so whenever somebody finds yourself in your situation, especially the way you frame that question, I want to ask you, I know you got a good rate. I know the house you live in is a good deal for that house. The real question here is, can you afford a $2,600 a month house

payment plus the electric and the water and the insurance?

>> Uh, yes. I believe so.

>> You believe so or you know so?

>> I know so. >> How much how much money do you bring in a month, Star?

>> Um, roughly 4,500.

>> Okay. now since I just started working.

>> That is really That's half of your in take take home income. >> That's a lot of house.

>> Probably too much. I think I think it's too much house star if I were to be honest with you.

>> Now, I don't know what you're going to do with four kids.

>> I don't know where you would go unless you had to go to a two-bedroom apartment, but in Seattle that might cost you 2,600 bucks, huh?

>> Yeah, exactly. Mortgage is pretty much the same as rent right now. >> Yeah. >> Oh, man. Um, but then I was thinking like the child support that I'm going to be receiving next month. I'm not sure exactly the amount, but I'm thinking roughly 15. Uh, yeah. 1,500 roughly.

>> Uh, that would also help. >> That would definitely offset. Yeah.

>> Part of it for sure. >> Um, >> all right. So, what's your question? I jumped right in on your house. I kind of ran over you a little bit and I apologize for that. How can I help?

>> Yeah, no worries. I was that was part of my question though is like if it's the best for my children and I to stay here.

Um we still owe 400,000 on the house and I was just thinking long term of like once I finish paying off the house, you know, reaching the goal of having no mortgage to pay and then saving up after that as much as possible. Um >> that's a the 400,000 bucks against what do you make? 60 grand. Is that your salary?

>> Yes. >> Okay. That's a really expensive house for 60 grand.

Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And if you add the income of the child

support, right, I mean, it can go up to 72 or whatever. You know, you could count >> 80 even 400,000 on $80,000 salary is

still a lot. >> It's still Yeah, it's it is a um >> ton of house. >> It's a lot. Are both of your names on it, Star?

>> Yes, we own own it jointly. It's like a joint. And so is he just hoping that you

pay it and don't get behind and cuz I mean if something happens >> Sorry. Yeah. >> Well, I was going to say if something happens to the house, he's he's on the line for it, too. So, I would think in a little bit in his interest, he's going to want to make sure that either you sell it and you guys split the equity or

um or that you have enough of a means to keep it afloat because if for some reason if you went into a short sale or a foreclosure, whatever, right? like if you had if you fell on hard times, his name's attached to it. So, I would just think on on his end, he's going to be somewhat invested in it. >> Does he want to sell it and take the equity?

>> He does. He And but then I was just like, where are we going to live?

>> Yeah, >> he does. He wants to sell it. That's why he's kind of >> manipulating me like to not give me anything to sell the house.

>> Um, are are the four kids his?

Three of them. Yeah. >> Three of them are okay. >> Well, and since y'all, again, check with your attorney on this, but since y'all were not married, I think you're going to the only way to get him off of that is to refinance it,

>> which will lose that rate.

>> Yep. So,

>> um I do want to mention that uh I do we

did before the separation uh we verbally agreed to buy a family car. He said he was gonna pay it. Of course, that's my verbal doesn't matters. Yeah,

>> you need to get an attorney. I hate to tell you that. >> Stay on the line, though. Star Christian's going to pick up and we're going to get you with one of our financial coaches to walk with you.

>> We'll pay for it this uh this this first session here for you.

[music]

[music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care? How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing?

Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies.

It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza.

>> It really is. So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800 356-4282 or go to xander.com.

All right, let's roll out back to Kansas City and talk to Kelly. Where's she at?

All right. What's up, Kelly? >> Hi, my name is Kelly. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Of course. Thank you for calling.

>> Absolutely. So, I was calling because I'm trying. My husband and I are just starting out. Um, we're on step one.

>> Oh, you're new new to the gang. New to the cult. We're going to send you a ladle so you can drink the Kool-Aid. [laughter] Welcome. >> We're super excited though. >> We're glad you're here.

>> Thank you. Okay, so my my primary question is I have about $9,000 in my

403b from work. I have roughly just

under 16,000 in a traditional

um Forgive me, my husband's mowing outside the the window. Um >> yeah, as he should be, right, Kelly?

[laughter] >> Yeah. Um um we have just under 16,000 in

a traditional IRA

>> and then we have a just a little bit it's under $1,000 in a money market.

>> Perfect. Okay. >> But we're trying to figure out do we use

the money market for step one or do we

pull that out and put it into a savings account or do we start a completely different savings account for that? or I I I guess I just don't know what to what to do. >> Yes. Well, yeah, the thousand baby step one, that's perfect. You can do a money market account. Um, more recently, high

yield savings accounts are doing really well, too. Um, I mean, it's not it's your emergency fund is not a place to go and try to find like the best interest rate because this money's purpose is not to make money. It is to be just a safety net. But if you can get a better rate, but usually money market accounts, high yield savings accounts kind of are in the general same ballpark area. So I would leave that alone and then focus on

paying off the debt. And that money will come from cutting expenses and working

extra, selling stuff, any way you can get creative. But we don't want to cash out any of the retirements because you

will not only pay taxes but also penalties and fees and all of that because are you guys 59 and a half? I guess I should ask that but >> uh well my husband is 71 and I am 48.

>> Okay, perfect. Yeah, I still would just keep everything there because it's growing and even though you wouldn't get hit with penalties and stuff, I would just keep it as retirement and you guys pull it out as you need um when that time comes. Um, but then how much how

much debt is there?

>> We have 240,000 on our mortgage. Um, we

have Hold on, let me look. Um, sorry, I'm just looking at my um um Every Dollar

app here. Um, we have >> You went all in, Kelly.

>> You're swimming in the Kool-Aid [laughter] hard. And I I have an interview for a second job on Monday. So, dude, >> look at you guys. >> Taking Kool-Aid shots. You're in.

[laughter] Uh, we have $1,500 that we owe to the IRS. We have >> u about $2,000 on a personal loan for

heating and air conditioning.

>> And then we have a credit card that's

14,300. >> Okay. And that's it. >> And then 60 65,000 in student loans for

I'm a nurse. >> Okay. Okay. Perfect. Um, no car payments. >> Correct. >> Okay, great. >> We we own the two we have free and clear. >> Okay, awesome. Um, Yep. So, well, you listed them out smallest to largest. I'm assuming you know about the debt snowball as you're paying off the smallest. And the IRS, regardless of the amount, gets bumped up to the to the front. You pay that off first and foremost. Um, and then how much do you guys make a year?

>> Um, it'sund

I think it was 110.

>> Okay. Is your husband retired or is he working? >> He is retired. He he just has his uh social security, but he's actually um been talking to one of our neighbors and plans to start working for the city over the winter to bring in that little extra income from him as well. >> Oh, amazing. Amazing. How much uh margin

are you guys finding in your budget just to throw at this debt per month?

>> Honestly, right now, very minimal. I'm we literally like today I paid for the

um the the the premium part of the every

dollar budget and I'm I'm just I'm really struggling because although it shows that we're that we should be good and that I've got a a you know it's an

every dollar budget um when I go in and

I put in the um paycheck planning >> aspect of it >> it seems like every every month we're we're um >> a lot of your bills probably hit a certain time of the month before the paycheck >> I I don't know what it is but it seems like we're overdrafted almost every month at least once when we pay the mortgage. >> Yes. Okay.

bills were owed before that hits right after and all of it. So you can actually see so you you guys may after seeing some of this contact whether it's utilities even your mortgage company um subscriptions any anything that you have that's going out to see if you guys can even spread out and change the date of when those are due >> so that it it actually is more fluid if you will because if they're if they're all frontloaded but you in your monthly budget but you're only getting one paycheck on the 15th that may not be enough to cover it all right uh or on the 30th.

So, so you may just need to kind of spread those bills out. Um, so that that that'll be helpful from a logistical side.

everything else, like if he even makes what 30 40,000, like if he can bring in something and not even just through the winter, I mean, I I really would, Kelly, I would I would both be working and I appreciate you even saying a second job.

Um, yeah. to get all this to get all this paid off. As >> I say, if I get the job that I'm looking at, it'll be I'm working full-time now and then I'm getting um I'm my interview

is for a weekend option. And so, basically, I'll work two 12-hour shifts.

Um but it's going to pay 36 hours.

>> Okay. >> And that'll be an additional about $6,000 a month that will excellent just

just from me. >> Amazing. That's so good. So, so good. Um

Yep. Because I I mean I think you guys could I mean if you're making if you're doing that kind of work I mean $83,000

you guys can pay that off. >> Yeah. We'll cook through this. >> Yeah. I think you'll do great. >> And Kelly, can I hopefully this gives you a little bit of peace. Do you know what the interest rate is on my

emergency fund?

>> On your emergency fund?

>> Yeah. >> I I don't have any idea.

>> I don't either.

>> Okay. >> I don't care what I'm what I I like that's not the point of it. And so like circling all the way back to your money market question, >> I like my emergency fund where I can get to it >> um if I need it. But I'm not looking for the best deal. I'm looking for something that's separate from my checking account. Right. So I don't quote unquote accidentally buy a boat. Right. Um

>> Right. >> And I want it but I want it where I can get it.

>> Yes. And I think that's why we like the money market ideas because although a savings account would be maybe easier um but it's also e more

easily accessible and right now I don't trust myself. >> Is your husband on on why don't you trust yourself? You sound like you're doing a great job. >> Well because we're both definitely spenders. Neither one of us are savers >> and we're so early into this and it's just like >> Yeah. Kelly, can I ask >> at least I feel like at least we know ourselves. >> Yeah. He's seven. He's 71. Did he bring Does he have any retirement?

>> No, ma'am. >> Okay. Cuz the numbers you gave me were really low. >> Social Security?

>> Uh, yeah. He's getting social security.

He gets a check for $296 a month.

>> Okay. But he didn't during his working lifetime, he didn't put money away.

>> He did not. He owned his own lawn service. >> Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Which is why he's mowing the lawn. But he's pretty good at it. >> No, he's mowing the lawn. He's mowing the [laughter] lawn cuz his wife said, "I'm calling Dave Ramsay." And he's like, "Well, got work to do." He did it outside. [laughter] >> I'm I'm leaving the house. The >> sun is shining and I'm going outside.

>> I bet he is. I bet he is.

>> Yeah. Well, Kelly, you guys are doing great and you're just at the beginning of this. I mean, I really give you props. A lot of people kind of just like dance around the edges and like I think I may do it, I may not.

We call it kind of Ramsayish and it just takes longer to get the momentum going for people. But people that really make a decision and you sound decisive, Kelly. You're like, "Nope, we did. We're starting it.

We got our thousand dollars. We got our every dollar out. Like, we are doing it." And you just signed up this morning, right? Right?

Like I mean like you're you're you're in the process. You got the job interview. I think you guys are going to feel traction like you've never felt before. I think you're going to feel control over your money like you've never felt before.

And my prayer is that your husband and you together are excited.

And I hope it adds and brings something to your marriage too that you've never had before. >> Yeah. Yeah. They're going to have to talk and go on walks together because you don't have any money for anything else, [laughter] >> right? You have to sit by a fire >> right now. for uh yeah, but I say right now we're um just trying to figure out,

you know, the budget and >> yeah, >> Christmas coming up and trying to get everything planned for that way.

>> Everybody's going to be fine. >> A little bit of a midlife crisis when I turn 48 and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I need to be tired." >> So this year, everybody's getting a love letter from their aunt Kelly. They're not getting anything special because you don't have any money. But next year, your gifts will be totally different because you all sacrificed this year.

It's amazing. Proud of you. Welcome to the cult.

>> [music]

>> Hey,

feel [music]

The allnew Every Dollar is here. [music]

And now it's way more than just our worldclass budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. Start every dollar for free today. Hey, get in the App Store or get it in the App Store or on Google Play.

It's the financial app that Rachel and I both use. George uses. Everybody uses it and it's pretty rad. Let's go out to St.

Louis, Missouri, and talk to the mighty Cam. What up, Cam?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Doing great. How are you?

>> Oh, just another day. Can't complain.

But >> you could, but you sound like George.

What's up? >> Yeah, something. So, I have a question.

So, I have some business debt that I

have strongly considered paying off

early or paying off even some of it like right now. But I'm kind of in the predicament where I have some very knowledgeable people in my life like my accountant and then some other family members and stuff that pretty nice net

worth. And I know with Dave's method of the whole buy a rental property, pay it off, use the profit, put it in an index fund, and then buy another one pretty well cash free, I guess, or uh debtree.

They've told me that it'd be better to leave that debt, I guess, and to keep it. You can leverage money differently and you could I don't know. They didn't they never really did give me like an exact straight answer, but I'm kind of just wondering what your all's thoughts are and like why it would be beneficial to keep the debt. I guess >> to keep the business debt because that feels different to me than the than the um buying a rental property with debt.

Those feel like two separate subjects.

>> Well, it's kind of like Yeah, like I have a rental LLC, I guess, but using that LLC to buy Well, it would be essentially debt in general, but it's all on business assets, I guess. Yeah, it's it's it's the it's what Dave went broke doing. It's the it is I am going

to take out a $100,000. Let's pretend we're in 1985.

I'm going to take out $100,000 loan on this house with no money down and I'm

going to put a renter in there and then I'm going to borrow against that house and then I'm going to >> or try to flip it for 150 and it doesn't set. Yeah. Yeah. >> And I'm going to Yeah. I'm going to take a 60-day note on it, try to flip it for 150, and then I'm going to take out another the when you say the word leverage, I want you to think of a teeter totter, right?

>> Yep. >> Guys love talking about leverage and leverage and leverage. Just remember the other side. There's always another side to that fulcrum. There's always something else on the other side of that. And so what Dave is saying is, I'm just not playing the leverage game. I'm out.

It's just a dumb game. So here's the deal. If you go in your rental property

portfolio in your LLC and you buy a house and you own it and then COVID hits

and the government says you your renters don't have to pay rent for 18 months, it's a really really annoying.

>> It's not catastrophic,

>> right? >> No. Absolutely. Yeah. And I I don't know like I think their thought process is like I make enough to where it doesn't I mean theoretically I could >> today you make enough today >> without that >> you make enough today.

>> Exactly. Yeah. And if something did happen obviously but that's a big deal 100%. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Or the market slows down. I mean who knows you know what I mean? Like there's just so many risk factors that people do not put into the equation and all they

do when they do their calculations is if everything works out perfectly upside it's all good. It's all good.

>> Your job's going to last forever. The market's going to appreciate at the same rate forever. The balloons you're going to sell it because the real estate market's always going to work like it has the last three years forever. Like everything's just assumed on best case scenario. And Cam, honestly too, when you run the numbers when you're trying to play the rental game because there's kind of the flip game, the rental game.

My husband does flips. We do it with cash, but like I know that game because we're in that. And so, um, I could speak to that. But even the rental side, because we did that for a little bit, and I'll be honest, if you had a mortgage on it, the amount you pay for rent plus all the maintenance, everything that you have to put into the house and having a mortgage, it ends up you end up not making a ton.

like you would be better off financially just putting money in an index fund and just letting it grow and that's hassle-free and stress free. You're not dealing with anything.

>> Yeah. And that's a long >> that's two presidential elections from now. >> Yeah. So it's just >> you tell me what's our world's going to look like. >> The rental game. It's just it's it's not as liquid and easy and passive as people

make it out to be. It's really not. And so, um, when you get into it, it's like it's just it's a lot of hassle. And again, I think if you if there's not a mortgage payment and you're that's why we always say, yes, to to move at the speed of cash and you can still do it.

It just is going to take longer, but once you get a renter in and you don't have a mortgage, then yeah, all that cash gets set aside, set aside, but it takes a little while to build that up, couple years to even go and cash flow cash flow something else too, you know.

So, it is a long game, but I would rather do that with no risk um than

golly have four or five rental houses where I have mortgages on everything and you're trying to keep renters. I mean, you are a property manager at that point and you're still have trying to have a life and a full-time job. So, >> Cam, here's the game I'm playing. Okay, you don't have to play this game. This is just the one I play in my house.

>> Some people like to play the leverage game.

I've got this side of the teeter totter stacked up and I'm constantly trying to shuffle and move things on the other side of the teeter totter to keep this thing from falling. Right.

>> Okay. >> The game I play in my house is my financial strategy is to solve for peace. That's it. And I will gladly play

pay 2%

on a 5 and a half% mortgage or a 6%

mortgage versus a 4% mortgage. I'll pay that 2% to have like I could be putting that money in the market and I would pay that 2% as a sleep tax because nobody

can take my house from my wife if I was to die. That's peace.

>> No. Absolutely. >> You know what I'm saying? So, I opt out of the game and I I'm just not going to play the leverage game. And you know what? I've got friends in my life. They love it. It lights them up. And also, they're aging way faster than me, right?

They drink way more than I do, right?

But if you don't play that game, just know you're playing that game and it has to all work out for it to be okay. I'm just choosing to solve for peace for me and my wife and my kids. If nobody can take my house away from me, I've got stable investments. Look at real estate.

Like, I'm just going to be smart and when I make a move on something, I want it to be mine. I don't want some bank to own it and me pretending I own it through them.

>> Okay. No, that totally makes sense, Jack. Cuz I mean, so I have like my house is paid off. My trucks I paid I wrote a check for. Amazing. Good for you, brother. >> I appreciate it. Essentially, I do have

I have like 200 and depending on the day, like 280K in a brokerage account that I manage, and it hasn't quite been in there for a year, so I'm still looking at short-term capital gains if I sold it >> and then I've got like another 210 on hand. I mean, theoretically, should I take that 210 on hand and just go ahead and wipe out my two rental properties or >> I would I would today. >> Yes. Like, >> if it was my house, I would do that today.

Then you'd have, bro, you'd have three houses free of >> paid for.

>> No. Yeah, that's kind of what I thought because in my eyes, like I know they say you can like write off interest, but I'm not getting anything out of the interest. That's what their thought process was. I can put in the market and make more, >> but Right. Right. >> with the interest, but that's still not my money. Like it's not going to my equity and it's not in my pocket.

>> So, it's like I don't see how that's really my money either from deducting it. And Yeah. >> Yeah. And and back to John's point too, Cam, like the math game. People say it a lot like that actually your exact scenario. They're like, I literally have cash and I have a mortgage that I could pay off with the cash, but for some people are like, well, it's in the market and I'm making 18% but my

mortgage, you know, is at 3%. Like, and I'm going to be making this amazing, you know, 15% spread and yada yada yada all the things. And again, at the end of the day, we have never met someone who has paid off their primary residence andor

rental properties and just own them and called us back and they were like, I hate being debtree.

>> I want a mortgage again. I want a mortgage again. Where can I go get a mortgage? >> That's the beauty of your situation. >> Nobody says that. They're all like, God, that felt so good. Oh my gosh, I didn't realize some level of stress that I carry that I don't even realize. Because you know when it proverbs says the borrower is slave to the lender and that is a powerful picture and we don't talk about that enough in our world today that emotionally spiritually financially

you know you you owe someone something and when you are free and clear of that Cam and you are a smart guy you work hard you do really well you're going to stack up so much cash [music] so fast and all that equity in those homes like your kid that is changing your family tree >> well and if you hate it pay them off today and give yourself 2 months of sleep if you hate Hate having three paid off houses? Go take a heliloc out on both of them. February 1st.

[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by the one and only Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls on money and work and relationships and your mental, emotional health, everything.

Anything you got going on in your life, we will sit here with you and we'll help you figure out the next right move. Let's go out to Tampa, Florida, and talk to Ma T. What's up, Matt?

Uh doing well. Thank you guys for uh taking my call. >> You got it, man. What's up?

>> Well, I've got a question. I I recently did a a job change and uh changed companies. And before I did it and and kind of subsequently after I did it, I've I've crunched a bunch of numbers and I keep thinking to myself, this was a good financial move. However, there are just bouts of anxiety that kind of

>> I don't know, overcome just kind of come randomly that are like, hey, you made a mistake. And so I I feel like I just need somebody else with some with some financial wisdom just to talk through and make sure I'm looking at everything correctly as I as I start the new venture. >> Right. I'm smiling not at you but at at your math problem.

So are you doing a math problem and it's not working out like you thought and you're like, "No, no, this was good. This was good." Or >> Yeah. >> Are you looking at this and you actually have a bunch of margin and there's other things that your body's trying to get your attention about this job move?

Um, I I would say the math seems to be

working out. And I think that if you had said, let's look at Matt's financial position in August versus Matt's in October, you would be like, October is better. Like October Matt is better.

However, it's like I can't I can't beat the anxiety away. Okay. I can't beat like the fact that >> Let me get the numbers real quick because I think it's more I think I think John's hitting it right and I just want to clear the clear it. So, what were you making and what are you going to make in your new job?

>> So, I was m making about 520 at the old

job and I'm making about 400 at the new job. >> 500 520,000.

>> That's right. >> And then you took a pay cut of 120 to 400,000. >> That's right. Okay. Um, but I'm commission I'm commission only. So, I'm in sales and I got to bring my clients over. I probably brought >> So, will you >> I mean, >> make more than 400, you think, because it's a sales job?

>> No, I I think I uh No, I think I'll make 400 next year. >> That's what you're think.

>> Yeah. And I have the potential to make more >> um as time goes on. I'm Yeah, but >> Matt, do you have a lot of debt? Uh, so when I took the new job, they paid me a

they paid me a pretty hefty signing bonus and I >> a million.

>> Nice. Pretty hefty.

>> You undersold [laughter] that one a little bit.

>> So they got a million dollar signing bonus. >> So you paid off everything, right?

>> Well, okay. I paid off all consumer debt and a car loan. I have about 800 left. I putund I put 150 in a side account which

is basically college funding for us my kids just to have it kind of earmarked for that >> and then I just have I have 65 or 650 in

a non-qualified account um that I just

>> How much do you have a mortgage do you have a mortgage or paid off house?

>> Uh I got a mortgage uh the house value probably 1.4 4 million and I owe about 750.

>> 750 on that >> 5,000. Yeah. About a $5,200 payment.

>> Okay. >> You could pay it off today because you got 800k just sitting there, right?

>> Yeah. But I I mean I do have some of that year marked for college. My kids >> Oh, yeah. I'm not saying to do that. I'm just trying to get the numbers right. Okay. >> But to the point that like you guys are pl like if you had to in six months, you could have a paid off house.

>> Uh yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. So now So we're good. Matt is good. Well done, Matt.

>> Yeah, well done. >> Well, by the way, uh so now there's anxiety and >> I need a job where I get a million dollar [laughter] signing bonus.

>> I got a high five and a hug. Okay, so Matt, here is a rule of thumb that I um

subscribe to when it comes to anxiety.

What if my body's right?

Not the way most people are trained, which is if you're anxious about something, it means your body is somehow malfunctioning.

And so if we look at your life, your marriage, your kids, your job, the

potential impact of AI, the your your

parents' health, um all these different things, if we were to look at your personal health, your physical health, your spiritual health, if we were to look at these things and ask ourself, if

anxiety is simply just an alarm system, what is our body trying to get our attention about? Where is our body seeing? Hey, you're not safe right here.

Yeah, I think it's the

I I think it would be the uncertainty

of 5 years, 10 years or 15 years down the

road. Like I feel like at my previous job, I mean I not exactly, but I mean I

feel like I could have almost mailed it in. I mean I had the contacts, I had the relationships. I mean I could have just been like, you know, oh hey, you need this? Yep. and just and just continue.

And now that's changed and I've the

failure of it not growing to that point

in the future is like, hey, you you could have just stayed. You could have not been stressed. You could have not had any of this anxiety. You could have just stayed at the previous company and worked >> or you you could have been walking in a in a bridge collapse on your head, right? So playing the whatif game

is usually a symptom of something deeper.

It is it it's it's the nerd word is rumination. It's your body's way of trying to come up with creative ways to solve future and or past problems and

those strategies help you avoid dealing with what the real issue is today.

>> Yeah. Matt, what caused you to change jobs in the first place?

>> Um, yeah. I I I mean, I felt like I didn't I

I didn't like the fact that I could mail it in. I felt like I needed to be challenged. I felt like I wanted I wanted something new. >> So then you get it in a sense.

>> Yeah. You got it. Now I've got >> Here's the worst part. You got it. You got a million dollar signing bonus. You got a $400,000 year job >> and you went with you.

>> Yes. So I feel Yeah. Maybe there's a anxiety like I I bet on myself and I'm a little bit nervous that that's >> great. That means that anxiety is right.

It's good. And so, um, Dr. Wendy Suzuki at NYU, she she says anxiety is an annoying but a friend. It's just looking out and saying, "I feel something is unsafe in this environment."

And it's you saying, "Oh, yeah. I doubled down on myself." By the way, if you bet on yourself with a million dollars in the bank, that's a pretty safe bet. Well played, dude.

>> Right. >> Okay. >> Let me ask you a deeper question.

>> Do you have any friends? any guys that you hang out with on a regular basis in your new community?

>> Yes, I actually do, but I'm a little nervous to tell them I'm I mean I think I'm a little bit nervous to tell them about the financial situation.

>> Okay, then they're they're not your gang then. >> Well, >> they're not. Here's why. Your friends are people you tell the the the the tough stuff to, the friends you tell the dark stuff to, but also friends are people you tell the good stuff to. And your wins, your celebrations don't come at their expense. They're happy for you, too.

>> Yeah, I think they would be. I think you're right about that. >> Then that to me is the That's your next chess move. >> And it's not a bragging thing. It's just a full picture of who you are, Matt.

Here's the situation I just got into and I can't believe I'm still spinning out, y'all. Like, what is >> Sit with me with like I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, it's it's just >> The first year I got number one book, I called one of my old friends. He's the executive of my will. And I said, "Hey, I need to tell somebody that I just had a crazy good year." and he was so happy

for me. And it didn't come at the expense of the year he had financially.

He's been my guy buddy for for 30 years now. But we got to celebrate together.

But it started with not me being like, "Dude, guess what I did." It was, "Hey, I just need to share this with somebody. I had a huge win and I can't tell anybody." And man, he was so happy.

That's your next move, brother.

[music]

Listen, [music] everybody needs insurance and it can be impossible to

find pros who are not just looking to make a buck off of your fear and [music] off your lack of understanding the complexities of the insurance market.

So listen, with Ramsy Trusted, with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro, you will never have to deal with a sleazy business or slimy salespeople because Ramsay trusted insurance pros are all interviewed, vetted, and coached to make sure they are market experts who have your best interest at heart. Rachel, I've experienced this in my personal life. It's been amazing having insurance folks I can call and be like, "Hey, I'm thinking about doing this. What about this?" And they call me proactively.

It's been amazing. Mhm. >> Go to ramseysolutions.com/co

to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. These are the pros that I trust with my family's future if

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All right, let's go out to Raleigh, North Carolina, and talk to Caitlyn.

What's up, Caitlyn?

>> Hey, how are y'all >> doing? Great. How are you?

>> I'm doing all right. Glad y'all are doing well as well. >> What's up?

>> Um, so my question is, should I pay a

stupid tax and move my family back into

our old home or should I put a renter in

our old home and sell it for a lesser amount to an investor? Uh, what happened?

>> So, we put our home on the market and we had a buyer and the buyer backed out an hour before we were supposed to go to the closing table for the sale of our old home and the purchase of our new home. >> Oh, man.

>> So, that stopped the sale of your new home or did you go ahead and buy it anyway? >> So, we did not buy it. It was contingent us being able to buy it on us selling our other home. So, the seller of the new home, we had already moved.

We have a small child and we had to be out of the house at closing. So, we had already moved everything into our new home. So, the seller was gracious enough to allow us to pay additional due diligence every month to go more towards the down payment of the home and allow us to stay there because, you know, >> close on it though, the new home.

>> We're basically renting it. >> But you've not signed anything.

>> Correct. >> Okay. >> Correct. So, we've invested a little over $10,000 of money in this house. And

you know, I we have small children. Our family is settled and our older house

has not sold like we thought it was going to. So my question, should we pay

the stupid tax and leave all that money in the dust and go back to our old home or should we put a renter in it to pay that mortgage and then save up enough money to purchase this home?

>> How how long ago was all this, Caitlyn?

So, we were supposed to close at the end of June.

>> Oh, so you guys have been in this other home renting from them, not even buying

>> for six months.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And what's been going on for six months? What like what have you been waiting for your other house to sell?

>> We have. >> And it's just been sitting.

>> It's just been sitting. Yeah. It's kind of, you know, when a house comes back on the market, it has a black cloud over it. People think something's wrong with it and there's not. >> Yeah. they like flag it or something. Um did um how how far of a distance is is

it different cities or just different part of town?

>> A different part of town. The reason we were selling the home is the street we were living on was consistently getting busier and busier. My husband was actually hit pulling into our driveway.

Someone wrecked in our ditch. Okay.

>> Um that might be another reason that sitting and having small children. We just didn't feel safe on that road anymore. And we want to expand our family, grow our family. We're a young couple. So, that was the goal. >> Yeah. No, I hear you. I'm so sorry.

That's so frustrating. Um, but I Yeah. I

mean, Caitlin, I hate to say it. I would I'd pay the stupid tax and go back. I mean, I almost would just see it as a gift that you guys didn't actually go through with the contract of this new house because if you had two mortgages that you had to pay, like this would, you know what I mean? Like, that that would be golly. Unless you can take less

of a stupid tax and drop the sale of the I mean, if you're going to lose 10 grand or 15 grand or whatever it is going to be, could you drop the price of your other house that much?

>> That's that's what I'm thinking. If I were to sell it to an investor, obviously we would have to lower the price of the home because investors, they're there to make money, not spend money. >> Have you talked to an investor that's interested? >> I have talked to a few that are interested.

They want a renter in it first before they would purchase it because it doesn't have a history as a rental property. It only has a history as a home. So, should I give it some more time and see if I can find a renter? >> No, you don't need here's what you've done and and I say this often on the show and so I'm kind of beating a dead horse here.

an eitheror corner. Mhm.

>> And anytime I in my life when I back myself into I have to do this crazy thing or I have to do this extreme thing, that's when I get myself into trouble. And so an exercise I use in my own house when I feel like I have to do this or I have to do that is I force

four or five other variables on the table just as a what if. What if this happened? Mhm.

>> And so what if you went and interviewed

another you found who is the top real estate person in your area? After this, I want you to get on ramiesolutions.com/realestate.

Get a real estate pro. And you sat down that person and said, "This has happened. I've got $10,000 to drop this.

I would love you to sell it before it even comes to market. Can you help me?" And I've had that conversation. And the guy I did that with said, "Done." And he did it. It was amazing. Okay. After nine months of a house being on the market, it was wild. Okay. Okay.

>> But maybe that's one. Or maybe you get aggressive with we're going to drop it $20,000 and we're going to end up paying a stupid tax, but we're not going to have to move.

>> Or like and and again, I'm just making stuff up off the top of my head, but I want you and your husband to back out of we either have to stab this thing or we

have to burn this thing. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Before we do one of those, you don't have to sell it to an investor or pack up everything and move away. And on the other end of that formula, the other thing is too that this house that you're currently in is not the only great house either.

So maybe you do move back and you guys press pause for a year, find something else because again, I just don't want you stuck.

>> They never gave us a deadline of when they would want this. >> No, I know they didn't, but you guys.

Yeah, because you could be on this for 2 years and it just, you know what I mean?

Like you need some level of urgency, which I know you guys feel urgent. I know it's like a lot and very overwhelming, but um but to get to force yourself to get creative to what John's saying um versus just like, well, we'll just see how this all plays out. Have a deadline and say, okay, for sure by February, like something's got to, you know what I mean? Like I don't know, like >> Yeah.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely.

>> But yeah, but I would talk to a great real estate pro because in the perfect world, the house sells and it's been on the market for four months. Um, I'm seeing here on our board that the at median days on market is 62 days for houses. So, you're double that basically. Um, >> but not crazy, right?

I mean, it's 4 months. And so, yeah, maybe you get a realer and you say, "Hey, for the next 3 months, we're going to just do some things, creative things to figure out how to get this house sold." >> And this may show my ignorance here, Caitlyn.

>> If I see something that says house back on market, >> I instantly run to it. I think >> you can get a deal. >> I think either I can get a deal or somebody wanted this and they they got to where they couldn't afford it. I I've never saw it as a black cloud.

I always saw it as like a for sale, >> an opportunity. [clears throat] Yes. Yeah. And whoever's looking on the MLS or like if there is someone that's trying to buy in your area and they see that, all they have to do is call up and be like, "Hey, bad inspection." You know what I mean?

And from the integrity of the agent, they have to be honest. And if it was a bad inspection, they'd have to say that and then you guys would have to fix it, all the things.

You know what I mean? >> Um, >> and it is a weird house. It has a weird layout. It's one of those split level homes. >> Yes. It is on a busier road, so it does have its flaw. >> So, it value may be may have dropped since >> maybe less than a traditional comp would be. Yeah. >> Y >> Have y'all dropped the price a lot yet?

>> We have. So, it appraised for 310 in

June and we've since lowered the price to 289.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Would you rather it depreciate like that and get it sold and you guys stay in this new house? Would that be like your perfect plan and just write it all off but at least stay in your new one? In the perfect world, I would rather like lose [music] some money on the sales so I don't have to upload. >> That's great. So, that's a good decision. >> And you hate this house, too, by the way. You hate it now.

>> I I do. I genuinely hate this house at [laughter] this point. I'm ready for it to be gone off of my hand.

>> I've Oh, God. I've been there. Oh, I've been there. Yeah. Yeah.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Let's go out to Kansas City, Missouri, and talk to Kim. What's up, Kim?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Doing remarkable. How about you?

>> Good. >> Good. What's up?

We are trying to figure out when we can retire. I'm 42, my husband's 45, and we

feel as though we have a decent number in the bank, but when we do the calculations, it just doesn't seem like enough. And so, how do you know when enough is enough?

>> It's a great dang >> great question. Great question. Um well the ideal would be to

be able to do the calculations and say okay ideally if we could retire around age I don't know you could pick your age 62 how much would be in the investments how much do we need to live off of at that point in life would we have paid off mortgage would we really essentially have no debt no bills would we still have a mortgage um what do we want to do in retirement how much we want to travel right and you kind of figure out your lifestyle and and would you be able to live off of um without touching the nest egg is the goal off of basically the interest that it's going to create.

So, um I mean there's yeah a lot of different ways. Yeah. A lot a lot of different ways you can slice it.

>> So we are trying to retire early. Yes.

My husband would like to retire yesterday. >> What what how old are you guys?

I'm 42 and he's 45.

>> Why do you all want to retire? What's the What's the rush? I'm just curious.

[laughter] >> Um I think we want to do things that we actually enjoy and love instead of just making money.

>> Okay. >> Why are those mutually exclusive in your mind?

>> Um because we are definitely the bootstrap type of people. And so we have he has worked his whole life at the same company in order to get this nest egg

where it is. Um and so in order to leave when you've worked for a company for 20 years that's very difficult. You don't just walk away. And when you're our age, it's a harder game than it used to be to find a job. Um and so I think he's ready

to just be done and do that thing like pick up golf balls on the golf course where maybe you don't have insurance or you don't have >> Here's the thing. You have y'all have created you've twisted the the the math, if you will, and not real math, but you've twisted the reality to make it to where it's okay for him to get a new job or to change his life.

That make sense? Here, here's what I know. Y'all are two hard charging people who have worked really hard your whole lives. You will go stark raving mad.

[laughter] >> You like it's not good. It's not. It's honestly >> the research says if you if you just retire to quote unquote do nothing or if

you retire away from a thing, not towards a thing >> um other than picking up golf balls on a golf course, your your body says, "Okay, cool. We're done." And it starts shutting off.

And so I'm interested in what what are the things you're trying to escape and what kind of life do you want to build together? And how would I think we're I think we are built to work and I think we are wired for purpose. And so you extract those two things out and you put all that on a number. Man, y'all I I

just worry about what happens at your 48th birthday. Maybe y'all are like, "Dude, this is the best life ever. This is awesome." Um but that doesn't sound like who y'all are.

>> Sure. I think that we are looking for more flexibility and so we're trying to figure out what that looks like in the next step. >> Sure. >> Yeah.

And I think what we're saying is you may h you may be in a place which we haven't got your numbers so we can dig into that in just a second but you know you can get to a place where you're like hey I don't have to do the nineto-5 but I have this talent over here this passion for this type of industry or this group of people and I'm going to put some hours of my week into this service and you know figure out a way to still yeah go travel when I want and do what I can and maybe you guys worked hard in order to earn that but when you just stop and do nothing at the age to 45 through the rest of your life for the next 40 years come.

It's not good. I mean genuinely all the and it sounds I know it probably sounds magical because you guys have been working your butts off but I am telling you people shut down. I mean we even I even see this with you know God bless them. They have passed away now.

But even different sets of grandparents and the ones that would just sit in the chair and watch cable news all day >> deteriorated faster than those that like was out, you know, they would come to school stuff. They would they were moving and doing things. You know what I mean? Like the purpose.

Um and again that can be not as many hours as you guys are working but I would still have something that you're looking at and even if it's volunteer maybe I don't even care about that but there's something bigger that you're living for and not just golfing.

>> All right. So how much money do you have?

Um quite a bit. So I'm a sole aerys of a

a real estate mongle. So quite a bit. Um

>> what's quite a bit >> 500 million, 5 million?

>> Two billion. >> Two bill. Two billion. Do what?

>> About 9 million. >> 9 million. Okay. >> Okay. And so is that is that all in still tied up in real estate assets?

>> So we own our own business. Um so part of it is yes, we still have real estate assets that we do still manage on the daily. Um, and then other of it in investments in the market, other of it's in cash. I mean, it's in it's in a lot of different veins.

>> So, your total net worth is 9 million.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And what is what does that pay out to you every month?

>> That's a tough question because we have it all in different buckets. So, our business is in one bucket. Our my husband works full-time for a another company just to have a another source of income. Um, and so everything's bucketed out. So I can't really tell you how much it brings in monthly because we don't look at it at that aspect right now.

>> Okay. You've got to know what your expenses are and you've got to know how much you bring in every month >> as as just a >> So we do know those numbers. Yes. So those numbers are hard. We do know like what we bring in every month which is what >> um I uh about 9,000.

>> Okay. So that like the rental incomes

and the if you've got derivatives coming in and his paycheck, all that adds up to about nine grand a month is what y'all make. >> That is just what our business pays me and what his job pays him. We don't titch any of our investments outside of that. And we take nothing out of our business other than what it pays me.

>> Okay. So what do y'all owe? Are y'all good for the next 20 years on cars, house, everything?

>> Yeah, we owe nothing on anything. >> Okay. So, if you were to quote unquote retire next month, let's just play that game. Where are you going to be getting money from?

>> We would still have our investments. So, we would still have our real estate side of our business that brings in approximately $40,000 a year. Um, that's

what what pays us. It brings in more than that, but that's the portion that we use for salary. >> Okay. But what would you do? You can't Okay. Yeah. Keep going. [laughter] >> And then we have investments in the market that we'd have to start using. um we've had to pull off from those which you haven't done before. >> How much are in those?

>> Um about three million. >> Okay. And is the is the real estate are

do you own it now? Like did your parents like it's been passed to you. So you have full ownership. Your name's on it and everything. Okay. Good. Okay.

>> Yes. >> So you have 3 million in I don't have a calculator. >> It's in the market like So is it is it in >> Yes, just in the market. >> Okay. Okay. So, could you guys live off of 250 a year or is that feel like less

than what you guys live off of now?

>> Oh, we live off way less than that now.

We live off of probably about 120 on a good year.

>> Okay. So, what I would probably do, Kim, honestly, is I would sit down with a financial planner and map all this out because of your assets and what you guys have. Um, that doesn't always mean obviously it's it's all liquid. I mean, hopefully like there is money coming off of those assets that you guys can use and live off of, but I want you to get some more concrete numbers and figure out.

So, my the only like red flag I always have with like it's kind of that fire movement is what it's called, like they try to like, you know, retire early. Yep. >> Um, >> that's my husband's eyes. Okay.

So the so the two downsides to those is all what we talked about at the beginning of the call is that you basically you lose any level of motivation to do anything >> purpose motivation >> and it eats you from the inside out over time. It does.

And the other negative is how life changes and how your lifestyle might change. So you guys might be great living how you are right now, but 62-year-old Kim may be super bougie and it's like, "Well, I want to go on this type of Mediterranean cruise." And it's like, well, we can't do that this year.

We got, you know, you're like, man, I wish we could. I don't know why we, you know, your your preferences may change over time. And you're kind of locked in to one way of living, >> right, >> for the rest of your life, too. But the 9 million changes it.

So, I would sit down with I really would and look at all your assets [music] and and to be able to figure out, okay, what can this roll off of and how can we be smart about it so that this can take us long term?

camp. >> I want your husband to quit his job >> and then you all figure out him getting a new job for a year and try that.

[music]

[music] Today's scripture of the day is Proverbs 22:3. The prudent see danger and take

refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty.

Graham Norton says, "A good rule to remember for life is that when it comes to plastic surgery and sushi, never be

attracted by a bargain." [laughter] Excellent. Excellent.

>> I think that is that's good. No. Yeah.

No group for uh for the old plastic surgery. And bro, I have a gas station

sushi story. >> I can't I can't even do I can't do sushi at an airport. >> You can't? >> No. That and gas stations and grocery stores. >> I'll tell you, James

sushi in Nashville over at Jasmine, which just love it. James showed me that place. >> Great spot in the strip mall off Mors Lane, >> right by Guitar Center. Clutch. >> 100% by Pets Smart, too. Yeah, that's why we're talking people. >> This is like [laughter] free advertising here. >> Was fantastic.

Yeah. Where else? We're going to go you we're going to put a pin down in the show notes here [laughter] so you know exactly. All right. Let's go out to Charlotte, North Carolina and talk to Michael. What's up, Michael?

>> Hey, how are you? I appreciate you taking my call. >> You got it, brother. What's up?

>> Um, my wife and I are expecting our second child in a few weeks.

>> Congratulations. >> We Thank you. I really appreciate that.

>> Get ready. >> Yeah, we are. We're excited, but we're we're a little nervous. It's going to be a lot. >> Manto man defense, but you got it.

Yes. Yeah. Not outnumbered quite yet.

>> Nope. It's good. >> Um we own both of our cars outright. Uh

but neither of them can accommodate a growing family. So we're planning on buying a minivan as soon as possible.

>> Yes. >> Um we have a nice start to our retirement nest egg for our age and we have the cash to buy the van with no debt, but we're both natural savers and we're already losing sleep over seeing the numbers in our bank account uh plummet. So, how do we get over that anxiety and how should we change our investment rates such that we rebuild that cash fund at a good pace?

>> Okay. Do you guys have you you debtree you said right? >> We just a mortgage. >> Yep. Okay. And how much do you guys have liquid cash >> that's not the emergency fund but just like sitting there that you're like oh yeah we have this. >> So our our liquid and emergency are

combined. Uh, I typically rotate them through tea bills, four-week tea bills, so that, you know, they're still growing and we have access to that money at a a reasonable pace. >> Okay. >> Um, we have about 70,000 in cash.

>> Okay. And that includes the emergency fund. What would you consider the How much of that is the emergency fund?

>> Half. >> Okay. So, you got 35. So, you got the emergency covered. You have 35 for a for a new car. Uh, or new to you, I guess.

Um, correct. How much do you make

>> combined? We make about 200k.

>> Okay. And um what could you sell the

current car for? What would you get for that? >> Um they're old. We are very much drive

our cars into the ground. Okay. So I think maybe two or three grand.

>> Okay. So not a ton. Yeah.

Um yeah. I mean from an income perspective, you're not completely you're not off at all. I mean, we always say don't not to have anything with motors and wheels. That's half of your annual income. So, that'd be a h 100,000. So, you guys are way below that. You have the money for it. The only thing that kind of um I kind of hate that you're wiping out all of your

savings, right? I mean, your your emergency fund will still be intact, so I would not touch that obviously. But the fact that everything else is going to be gone, I could see how that's a little bit like, oh man, I think I would love to have a little bit more cushion for in case something comes up, right? And again, you can use the emergency fund for that. Um, >> I always like to lean in, and this is an annoying question, and I know that lean in on this question when somebody says,

"The cars we have simply cannot accommodate a family of four." >> Yep. because I I we drove a Prius and a Corolla for a while with two little ones.

And so like what kind of cars are you talking about that can't accommodate two

uh two kids?

>> Um a sedan and a a small hatchback. So

kind of similar to yours.

>> So So it you could it's a pain in the butt to bend over every time to lean over to get the car seat out. It's it's the worst, but it's still possible. And here's why I'm asking. If y'all make 200 grand a year and you could pull aside four grand a month for six months,

you're you're you're good to go.

>> The issue is we also have two dogs um

and we do a decent amount of traveling in the cars. So right now with one car seat, you know, the back seat is car seat, dog, dog.

>> Once the second car seat is in there, >> it's going to be, you know, car seat, dog, car seat, and then dog. This is an awful, awful thing I'm about to say, but

>> that ends up meaning your dogs are worth tens of thousands of dollars in

>> Yeah. >> travel cost. >> Yeah. >> And that's a tough pill for me to swallow. [laughter] >> You guys, Michael, y'all have the So, listen, you have the money for it. You really, you know, you you're not it's not an astronomical amount. You guys make good money. You could rebuild this.

Um, and you and I considering you both are the fact that y'all both are anxious about it is a red flag to me. I just want this to be a purchase that y'all are excited about and you feel good about. So, if that means pausing and waiting another two or three months and piling up some more cash just to have as a buffer of the emergency fund, then maybe that makes you all feel better. You know what I mean?

Like, I want this to be um a purchase that again that you're like, "Oh, yeah." Cuz I don't know. I I'm kind of with John that like you guys would be okay in this car for another five, six months. I mean years if you had to, right? If you if you literally said, "We have no money." We'd be like, "Okay, you got to figure out." >> Easy peasy.

Yeah. Parents can come visit you. >> Yeah. Figure out what you got to do.

But you have the money. You guys have worked hard and you saved. And again, it's not an astronaut. It's not it's not over that half of your annual income.

And if the heat, you know, I don't know. Again, you can always tap into the emergency fund, but I me as a spender. I

h we have an emergency fund and then we kind of have another emergency fund that just kind of sits there too that we really don't touch. So, like I just like to have a buffer in my savings. And I don't know if y'all feel that way, but if you do, then just pause for three months, >> save up a couple grand, you know, each month and then be like, "Okay, good. We have an extra 10 over here. That feels

good. Let's let's let's buy the van." You know, >> let me ask recommend? >> Go ahead. >> Sorry. Go ahead. >> No, you go ahead, brother.

>> So, would you recommend then, you know, our our 401k and other investment contributions are high. Would you recommend dialing those back to like >> 15%?

>> 15%.

>> Okay. So, keep those at 15% and then everything left over you think just put into cash. >> I would. >> Yeah.

Just to give you guys >> bills either. Just put in cash >> because some people were in your situation and they're going to feel great about buying it because they have the money for it. Um, and you do and you got but you're like, golly, we're just stressed and like, oh, I don't know. So then give yourself some buffer >> and and what's y'all's Did y'all come from not a lot of money?

>> Um, both of us come from like middle

class families, so you know, nothing

extravagant, but there was always food on the table type thing. >> Sure. >> Um, >> to be honest, I I don't know where the stress comes from. It's just we know that it's totally unwarranted, but for some reason we have this conversation over and over and over again about, you know, are we really okay? >> I mean, could you get could you find a $20,000 van?

>> Make that part of the fun that you'll find a $30,000 van or >> instead of a 35 or whatever >> 50 or Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that might be part of it. But I'll also tell you this, there comes a moment when you have

to do the next right thing for your family. Now, I wouldn't say spending $40,000 because your two dogs like to travel, but like there's the next right thing for your family and it might feel

uncomfortable. You get what I'm saying?

And so, like no matter how many number

one books I had, no matter how much success I've had the last few years, all that, I still got that little kid inside of me whose dad was a policeman and money was really tight. And so when I got a new car several months ago, it was

like I had cash for it, went and wrote a check for it. It was still hard for me to pull the trigger. And it was it was not none of it was rational. And so I I

knew I'm going to go write this check.

I'm going to buy this car. I'm going to drive it home. And I know I'm going to have a night of regret and guilt. I'm going to feel it. And then in a couple days when I'm taking a trip, I'm not worried about the front tires rolling off my car. I'm going to be happy that I have this. And that's how it ended up.

And so there is if you know your body is getting your attention on something and you know that it's not real or that it's not true, great. Um feelings are designed to keep you safe. They're not designed to tell you the truth all the time. And so y'all feel it and then go make the purchase.

But I like Rachel's idea of what if you just held off 3 months and y'all just proved to yourself we could put [music] 15 grand away over 3 months. You make 200K and then go buy the van that you'all want.

Thank you so much for being with us. And remember, there's only one way to peace, and that's through Christ Jesus, the Prince of Peace.

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## 100. Learn When To Move From Intensity To Intentionality | March 31, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the very popular Ramsey Network program called Front Row Seat.

He's my co-host today. The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Rachel is in Nashville. Hi Rachel, how

are you?

I'm okay. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I was calling because I recently

found out that my husband has been hiding some credit card debt that I didn't know about. And How much?

>> he now Um 30,000 that I am aware of.

30,000 that you're aware of?

Yes. Okay, so you don't think he's told you everything.

No, I do not.

Um he recently like when I confronted him about it, uh he wouldn't answer me and he >> it? I um got into my my bank account

app to upload a check and saw a

notification that my credit score had dropped significantly and I looked at it and then saw that there was $30,000 of credit card debt attached to it. To your credit score?

Yes. How did you get a credit card that you didn't know about? Did you Did he sign your name to the card, you think?

>> No, I well, I'm an authorized user on it. Mhm.

Mhm. Authorized users don't have their credit damaged.

Well, Not supposed to, anyway.

Well, it's tied to my credit score currently.

>> Okay. Um All right. So, he he's run up So, you guys have got your money separate. And um why didn't he tell you

about it?

Uh I don't know if he was embarrassed or just hiding or just counting on the fact that I wouldn't find out about it. I'm not sure.

Well, I mean, why does he care if you found out about it? It's his business, right? You all have separate stuff.

Um I don't know. He told me that it shouldn't matter.

Or I shouldn't care if my credit score is okay or not.

Well, that's not the point. The point is why is he hiding debt?

I I don't know the answer. I mean, he's trying So, now he's trying to do uh cash-out mortgage refinance to roll the

credit card debt into our mortgage. Mhm.

Mhm.

Okay. Well, there So, I would There's a lot going on in this conversation, okay?

Yeah. We can separate it out into three or four pieces. Number one, we'll go with the last thing first.

You do not refinance credit card debt into your mortgage, ever, unless it's to avoid a bankruptcy, and you're not bankrupt. You're just out of control, have a horrible system, and a questionable marriage.

Mhm. >> But, a refinance does not help any of that. It treats the symptom. The debt is the symptom, not the problem.

And I'm asking questions that you don't know the answer to, that you need to be asking to try to find out what the actual problem is.

Why did he run up this debt? What's he buying with it? And you know, and the answer to the overall situation is the most concerning of all is your marriage.

Um he's lying to you and flippant about it and thinks it's a perfectly okay that he's actually done harm to your score.

And this does not sound weird. This whole thing sounds weird.

Yeah, it is.

Okay. >> And I don't know how to proceed. Yeah.

Because he's It's a marriage issue is how you proceed. >> Yeah. Okay. Your husband >> been we've been going through counseling and he doesn't want to do anything about it. Mhm. Okay.

Dr. John Delony says behavior is a language.

Yeah. And when someone says I don't want to work on our marriage, they're saying I don't want to be with you.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

So, I would I would get with the counselor this week and say,

"We need to be real clear with this guy.

We're not I'm not signing a mortgage and we're going to heal our marriage and

as we feel it starting to heal and trust starts to rebuild, we're going to combine our finances so that this never happens again. I have full access to everything. He has full access to everything. We both have a vote." But right now, he's acting like his 14-year-old girlfriend is inconveniencing him.

And you're not that. You're his wife.

Yeah. So, the parts of you that said this all sounds crazy are absolutely correct. This all sounds crazy.

See, I really want to know where the money went.

I want to know that too, but I can't find anything.

I I mean, from what I can look at, I can't see anything crazy and then he's like, "You didn't find anything, did you?"

Uh which makes me think that he is hiding things. Yeah. Yeah.

And >> And proud about it. Yeah, that's right.

>> Yes.

I'm I'm I'm worried there's other things even going on after having done what I do for so many years. I hope it's not.

But there's got a lot of symptoms here that um that this money's going to something that's really going to piss you off later. So I I really um I want you to get to the all the way to the bottom of this and start from ground zero and rebuild your marriage from the ground up. Uh, it's your only shot.

Existing in the current situation is not status quo is not going to work.

It's not going to work. I don't think this guy wants to be married. I'm I'm getting passive-aggressive vibes where he wants to have her call this off cuz he didn't have the guts to. Cuz he's a liar. This feels Dave. I don't know if you're get catching that vibe, but that's what I'm catching. That he wants her to be the one to say, "I'm done. I'm out." because he's a weakling. So he's manipulating her. Well, before it comes out that he has a girlfriend. That's it.

I think he's trying to push her. Yeah, there's something I don't I don't know. I do not know. We can't tell, but we've done a lot of this over the years, hon, and it doesn't turn out well with that type of an attitude you're describing.

>> Mhm. And so uh the biggest thing is is okay, I've got a problem. The situation's broken. We work on it together. We fix the problem. That's how good marriage works.

And this is not. So yeah, you you need

to talk to your counselor. And your counselor needs to grow a pair and um drag him in there and go, "Look, this isn't you guys you're screwing around with all of us and I'm not going to have it." Cuz a good counselor will hold a good therapist will hold him accountable for this misbehavior.

So um and for this lack of repentance and so on. Your credit score is is not on

the list of things I'm worried about here. Getting rid of the debt, not signing the mortgage, and healing the marriage, not in that order, are the three things I'm worried about.

All right, Nick is with us in Portland, Oregon. Hey, Nick, what's up?

Uh, yes. Um, I'm um I'm just recently hearing about

um your baby steps program. I've only been listening for about a week. Um but

I have a couple of questions.

Um uh I I'm 52 years old and I'm

debt-free and my house is paid off. But I really don't have any money in savings. Well, I have about $500 in savings right now. >> What's your household income?

Uh, 4,000 a month. Great.

Uh, I work for myself. Mhm. Um so I have

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All right, we're talking with Nick in Portland, Oregon. $4,000 a month income, no debt including his house, new to the baby steps. I think that's about how far we got into it, Nick. And your question today, sir?

So, um I guess I'm on step three of saving up an emergency fund. Correct.

>> But currently, it's going to take about

two years before I can save up, say,

20,000.

And I'm wondering if I should start investing at some point before I have

that full emergency fund saved up.

Okay, you make $48,000 a year. Why do you need a $20,000 emergency fund?

I thought it was that was three to six months of my um Well, that would be more than six months. So, three months would be 12,000.

Of your income, not your expenses. And it sounds like your expenses are 3,000 cuz you it sounds like you're saving a $1,000.

And so, if that's the case, then 10,000 is plenty.

Okay, 10,000 is plenty. So, do you have

I'm I'm totally new to anything with

regard to investing. I don't know anything about it. Do you have any recommendations?

Sure. I would do investing after you get the 10,000 saved and you can go to RamseySolutions.com, click on our SmartVestor program and those are mutual fund brokers advisors that don't work for us but that have agreed to do stuff the way we teach. And I put mine and Ken puts his in four types of mutual funds, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international for a very stable, conservative portfolio. And then you fund that with your Roth IRA and if you've got 401k or Roth IRA I

think you should yourself employed you could do a simple IRA as well. There's a lot of different ways you can do it and keep the government's hands off of it.

But the other thing I'm going to do is look at maybe adding some income to the equation at least short-term to be able to get the um to be able to get the emergency fund funded as fast as possible.

Um because you you know you're struggling on how how quickly you can do that. $2,000 a month you'll be done in five months on 10,000 and that would be fine for right now cuz you're obviously a very conservative person. Your expenses should not be so high if you don't have a house payment and you don't have any debt at all. So, I'd also be looking at your budget.

Yeah, I agree with this Dave. I think people need to understand that the gazelle intensity that we preach in baby step two, when you're knocking all that debt out, that needs to continue into baby step three.

relief that kind of come together and it just puts you in a really really good place. So, I absolutely agree with extra jobs, sell stuff. Let's get that 10,000 accumulated really quickly.

>> you will jump on to maybe step seven as soon as you finish that because there's apparently no children involved and uh at least the way you presented this and no house payment. And so boom, you know, now now we just all we have left to do is to invest.

And um you know, and so I really want to do what I can do with my career overall to get my income up overall in these premium earning years to be able to do that. So Ken, it's also interesting to mention we've seen several pieces of data and I've I've observed this too just um

taking the calls over the years.

The highest income earning decade for a male is in their 50s. 50 to

60 years old.

>> And so that that's when it all comes together and there's an arc, boom, you go and you know, then the 60s you kind of plateau out, kind of ride it ride the horse out into retirement. But um you know, until then that that's when everything comes together. Your experience, your education, your history, your failures, everything starts to pull in together and you you mix up this really neat gumbo that's got a great taste to it in your 50s and 60s.

That's right, in 19 in your 50 to 60-year-old decade. That's presuming that there has been some intentionality prior to that and I really recommend you get it in your 30s. If you do that, then you can build on it in your 50s.

Absolutely. Daniel's in Columbus, Ohio.

Hi Daniel.

Hi Dave, thank you for taking my call. It's an honor to talk to you. You too.

How can we help?

Um yesterday at 12:50 a.m. we suffered a

house fire and it looks like it's going to be a total loss and >> god, what is everybody okay?

Yeah, everyone's okay. We have two cats that are still missing. Um we're hoping they got out and we have we live right by the woods so we're hoping they're just hanging out around the house right now.

Um we had a uh good Christian public

adjuster reach out to us and uh we

wanted to know what your thoughts were on that and what the correct next steps would be to take from here.

Well, a public adjuster's job is to make sure that the um insurance company pays every stinking dime they're supposed to pay.

And you've got to cross every T and dot every I to cause that to happen and sometimes you got to lean on them.

Uh is he willing to lean on them?

Yeah. Yeah, they they seem like they're uh I've done my due diligence on them and I already looked into the company and they seem like they're a a pretty awesome company. Yeah. Um I'm a fan of the concept. I've seen good ones and bad ones.

Okay. Okay. And so I've seen them that embarrass you by the way they behave.

Um and I've seen other ones that are too wussified to to punch State Farm in the mouth. Which is about the only thing State Farm freak can understand. Who's your Who's your insurance with?

Uh the home insurance is with AAA.

Is with who?

AAA. AAA. Okay.

All right. I've not any experience with their claims except on an auto claim once and it was a good experience. A guy with AAA hit me and I got paid pretty quick. That was good. So um Hmm.

Yeah, I I the the the inventorying of your stuff, the detail that when you

don't do the detail you get underpaid by 20 or 25% type of stuff is where the public adjuster service is really valuable.

Uh are they taking a percentage?

Yes, sir. They're taking 10%. Okay. All right. And what's the What What's the house worth do you think?

Uh I bought the house in 2024.

Um, the property has a big detached garage on it. It was a tiny house.

Um, I bought it for 150. The actual house part itself was probably worth about 150-ish still. Not counting the lot or counting the lot cuz the lot didn't burn.

Um, I'm not sure. Yeah.

Cuz all you've got is the improvements and your contents.

So, you take lot value off of your appraised value and now we've got a total loss and that's what it is and it's a rebuild.

They're going to push it down, rebuild it. Um, or give you the money to rebuild it. Was it Do you have a mortgage?

Yes, sir. Yeah.

Yeah, and so the mortgage company's involved in this as well.

Cuz they're one of the stated beneficiaries on the policy. Um, all right. Yeah, yeah, I I I think if you've got due diligence, I mean, you're only 24 hours in and and be forewarned. Okay,

number one, you're only 24 hours in. Number two, um, yeah, the uh,

public adjusters that do a great job are the best. There's some of them that don't. Be careful with that. Then then the third thing is, um, this is one of the most emotional things that can happen to someone.

Have you ever seen the list of like 10 things that if three of them happen in a year, you got you're in the hospital?

It's like divorce, death of a parent, death of a child, uh, major car accident, house burning. High

stress, high trauma things. This is on the list of the top 10, okay? So, you're

24 hours after a top 10 event and you're making a major decision. So, um,

you know, you do not have to retain them immediately. Um, you could wait 24 more hours and just kind of let some of the uh, adrenaline go down cuz you're just you're burning the candle right now at both ends. I mean, you got to be emotionally fried, right?

Um, yeah, it's pretty rough. I would be.

>> It was obviously a lot. Um my girlfriend lived there with me and we had a 4-month-old and everyone got out quick, but she was pretty hysterical and that's pretty heartbreaking to see the person you love like that. Hey Daniel, I would be using good questions.

I would interview this guy like he was going to be taking care of your baby. Uh what are what are your goals? I'd ask him that. What is your goal with our case? And have him state it. Push him

and then say, "How do you think you're going to accomplish that?" Put him on the spot and trust your gut on this stuff. If he does a great job, he's going to get you more than 10% extra above what you would get if you handle the case by yourself.

So he's worth his money if he does a good job.

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Sandra's in Chicago. Hi Sandra, how are you?

Oh, I need some advice. Okay.

So, I've been with my partner for 8 years. Um we have two children ages 3 and 6. And he's expressed that um he

doesn't want to get married. It's just a piece of paper to him and so it's been

hard for me because I I I do want to get married. Now, financially he takes care of me and the children. I have $25,000 in savings.

Um but he has a lot more. He he's going to inherit assets, two buildings I believe, and he has money from before.

Um, now we currently live in um, his his

home, his parents' home, which he owns with his brother cuz his parents are deceased. Um, so we don't pay mortgage.

Uh, he covers all the household expenses cuz I'm a stay-at-home mom, and that's to about $4,000 a month.

Um, and we I I do hustles here and there, so I maybe bring $500 monthly.

Um, so we we don't have monthly counseling. >> So, the my I have two questions. Should I disregard this and not care about

marriage, um, and should I invest those

$25,000?

Um, I'm just afraid of the if something were to happen, um, how do I care for my children since we're not married and I'm not entitled to anything, that's my fear.

Yeah, if he up and dies or up and leaves, you're screwed.

And so, I that's why I'm afraid to invest >> a homeless single mom.

No, that's not funny at all. That's terrifying.

Yeah. He doesn't understand this. He thinks it's funny. >> care if he understands it. That's the reality.

I'm scared to death for you.

Yeah.

You're vulner- you're very vulnerable.

I definitely am. I I I feel it. Yeah. Stressed out all the time. >> Yeah. It's on the it's an undercurrent in your house.

That you're not valuable enough to marry, but you're valuable enough to have kids with.

Correct.

I'm sorry.

Thank you. So.

I don't I don't think you're going to do anything about it though, are you?

I I mean you're you're you're 8 years into this system.

Yeah.

Um I just I don't I can't afford to move out and be a single mom. Um I'm

hopefully starting a new job soon, but >> How much is that going to pay?

Next to nothing because I I can't Okay, so let's I'm probably going to have to be part-time. So let's address your fear, okay? The fear is legit in the sense that you have no plan right now, but the fear goes away when you have a plan. So you you have got to start digging into what would have to be true for me to work a full-time job that would take care of me and the babies.

Right? Well, what have to be true? I'd have to have affordable child care, and we got to dig into that. If I can't afford day care, what does that look like? I will tell you that there are solutions to this, but until you begin

to dig and go get answers to the fear question, can I survive without him? Right now you're telling us no. That's not true, but you're going to have to go dig and figure this out, and you can do it. And I got to tell you if if if it were me, that answer that he gave, that it's only a piece of paper, would be everything I need to know about being committed to this guy long-term.

And I think you're going to regret this, and this is going to eat away at you when you're an old lady. I think you're going to regret if you don't make a change at this very pivotal moment.

Cuz if you do, it's marriage. And if it's not marriage, now we need to begin to decouple.

And this is what it's going to mean. But I think you've got to before you get to that point, you got to go, what does it look like for me to be able to take care of myself and those kids? And that $25,000 cash becomes

an emergency fund if you have no debt.

Do you have any debt?

I don't. Yeah. How old are your kids?

Three and six. Little boy, little girl?

Yes. Okay. Both. Would you want this for her your daughter?

I I don't. No. Then fix it. Mhm.

Easier said than done.

Then fix it cuz you're modeling for her that this is the way life is supposed to be and it's not.

Yeah. It's not.

You're being held hostage.

And financially.

And you feel it. You feel vulnerable.

You feel disrespected and that's in the air of your house and it's translating into your daughter's body.

And she thinks this is how men are supposed to treat women and it's not.

Fix it.

You've got to stand up and fix it.

And amazingly, Junior may decide he wants to paint or get off the ladder. I don't know. But um not sure he's worth it. But uh

Mr. I've got I inherited my mommy's house with my brother. Oh, woo, aren't you a dadgum producer?

You're killing me here. And so um

yeah, I'm I'm not impressed.

Uh so That's right.

This is two in a row. The guy last guy with the house fire, same thing. He's four year old kid and his girlfriend who's hysterical. Uh living together. So here's the here's the data, folks.

If you are 35 to 54 years old, this is actual data we just got a hold of the other day. The average married couple

has a net worth of 329,000.

50% over 50% of the couples in America

living together are not married

in America right now. We have more people shacking up than married people shacking up.

Right now. But the data says it's not working financially.

And the data says it's not working relationally.

So, here's the thing. Married couples, on average, 329,000 between 35 and 54 years old. Unmarried male, not 300,000,

84 87,000.

So, 1/4 of the net worth

if you're an unmarried male. So, if he wants to know why he should get married, that's the reason.

Unmarried female, 1/10, 35,000. 1/10, 10% of the net worth. And

that's where she's sitting right now.

She's sitting with 10% of his net worth or 10% of a an unmarried guy's net worth, but 10% of what she would have had had she been married for these eight years on average.

That's the averages.

Okay? The average married couple, 65 and above, 608,000. Unmarried male, 218. 1/3.

Unmarried female, 174.

25%.

Net worth.

Mar- 40% of all the public are married,

75% of millionaires are.

You getting it yet? Married males outlive unmarried males an

average of eight years.

Married females outlive unmarried

females by four years.

Cancer survival rate among married people, 20% higher than unmarried people.

Hello?

Is this microphone on?

This used to be a show where people would call up and I'd say, "Your car is stupid. Sell the car." It's gotten to where the answer to every question is get married.

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Lori is in Canada. Hi Lori, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hello Dave, thank you so much for taking my call. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Wonderful, same here.

Um, I'm looking for some, I guess tough love if it's at all needed. Um, but just kind of my backstory here, I'm going to be reaching the end of baby step two at the end of April, which is so excited.

I'm so I'm so happy. I've been working myself to the bone. >> Congratulations. >> Yes. Thank you. Um, and then for baby step three, it won't take me long. I have very low expenses. I'm planning to save about $6,000 for a three-month emergency fund.

And so by early June, early mid-June, I should be about done um, doing those two steps.

Now, I'm trying to plan for after baby

step three and um, maybe scaling back on

my part-time job because I'm working two jobs right now, 70 hours a week. Um, and

I'm feeling a bit nervous to lose that

extra 2,000 a month in income.

Um, and so I'm looking for some advice on how to scale back from a gazelle intensity mindset and nurture a prosperity mindset after I'm done baby step three.

Very wise. Good for you.

Yeah, when you're running wide open and you cross the finish line, you don't suddenly stop.

It takes a few steps to slow down.

You don't you don't stop like I think think of a sprinting a foot race, right?

Like a 40-yard dash, okay? Yeah, you're not you're not going to slow down. It's going to be a few yards after that before you slow down. But by the time you get out there 100 yards after the finish line, you'll be back to a normal pace again. So, it takes a minute to slow down. That's thing one. Thing two is um anytime you're looking at something and I have anxiety about it or worry about it, you said. Um facts are

your friends.

So, look at your budget. I think you're doing a detailed monthly budget, aren't you?

I sure am. Yeah, and >> Okay. Um the part that I'm nervous >> of instead of white knuckling instead of white knuckling the budget look at the budget and go, "Now that I have no payments how much room there is. Oh my goodness."

Mhm. And so, that gives you mathematical tells your brain mathema- the math tells your brain it's okay to slow down.

It may take your heart a minute to catch up but your brain will go, "Oh, we're okay." Yeah. Because you are okay.

Cuz you're putting you know, you're putting more than the part-time job towards the debt and then towards the emergency fund, right?

Correct. So, that means when you do away with the part-time job mathematically, there's still the more than part.

The margin. Yes.

So, you're okay. Math says that.

Um but you're what you're trying to adjust for is the emotions, but I'm telling you emotions are something you tell what to do. They don't tell you what to do. Yeah, you know, I'm listening to you and I think you a little exercise would be what is my focus now. You know, we hear a lot about what's my why and and you're you're you're getting through this because you want to be free.

But it's really what am I doing in order to get the why? And and so, now as you move out of baby step three, ask yourself, "What am I intentional about now?" Because you've been intense, super intense.

let's move from intensity to intentionality.

And so now ask yourself, what is my financial focus now? Right? In baby step four, super clear, we're trying to build wealth now.

And so I think if you can reframe into the next what, I think it will naturally

help you slow down as Dave gave it the beautiful metaphor there, kind of out of a sprint.

>> have you been fighting this?

Uh I've been at this baby step two since

February of last year. So about So 70-hour weeks for a a year plus?

No, no. The 70 hours a week was a very recent addition. Before I was working about 50 to 60 hours a week. So I've been at it for for a couple >> You've been at it. You've been hard at it. So my point is this, when you stretch something to this degree that's never been stretched before, it's impossible for it to return to the same shape.

So you you can we have the number of people that the number of people that we coach that do what you have done, that go back to being irresponsible doofuses with credit cards is almost zero.

I I don't want to go back.

>> think I don't think there's any chance you will. That's my point. If you'd only doing this for two months, you might you might go back. But when you've been fighting it like this by yourself for a year, scratching and clawing, and we can hear the visceral intensity in your voice, kiddo. I love talking to you. Cuz you're like passionate. You're getting it. You are getting it.

>> Thank you. And and so that tells me that you're you have stretched to a place you've never stretched before, and you will not return to the same shape.

And so you're you're you're great.

You're going to be fine. You're going to be great. And just be intentional, not intense. If you just tell your money what to do, you're going to have money the rest of your life.

That's all you got to do. Just tell it what to do. You don't have to freak out. You don't have to work like a crazy person.

you don't have to do beans and rice, you don't have to do gazelle intensity. You just got to tell it what to do. That's intentional versus intensity. Stay on the EveryDollar budget the rest of your life and watch your net worth climb.

As Ken said, have a new target that you're aiming at and it's one that is a little bit more joyful and comfortable than running from the wolf of debt Yeah. that's chasing you through the forest, you know, it's like >> true.

nervous system, all of that has been reshaped. And it will yeah, and it will adjust, by the way, when you adjust your new focus. That's it's a miracle of the way our brains work. There's all this research on focus.

Avery's in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey Avery, what's up?

Hi Dave, it's a pleasure talking to you.

Very excited. Honored to have you. How can we help?

So, my fiance and I are getting married in October and I'm trying to stress the importance of budgeting. Um but my question is, do we

budget together when we don't have visibility into each other's finances?

And should we budget budget together or separately? You should budget separately, but you can do some practice budgets together as part of your pre-marriage counseling.

In other words, you actually run your money separate until you're married. Do not combine finances with someone you're not married to. Then after you get home from the honeymoon, you can do what you've been practicing.

Yes, it will reveal expectations.

And and it'll be great it'll be great for your pre-marriage counseling, it really will. Because where are you spend your money reveals your dreams, your fears, your values.

Jesus said your treasure's where your heart is. And so, you're a spender, he's a saver, or the other way around.

Um you know, one of you grew up in a household where people didn't care about money, and the other one they were screaming about it all the time. And so, all these things are going to start coming out when you start looking at this together, but the money is not actually the thing. It It's revealing who the two of you are and what your differences are that will work for you if you learn to use your strengths for each other and guard each other's weaknesses. So, I'm not the natural saver in my house.

So, that's our natural safeguard. She's a straight-up tightwad.

She saves everything. There's way too many leftovers in my refrigerator, and I have a net worth of hundreds of millions of dollars, and there's freaking leftovers in my refrigerator. It's awful, y'all. I'm complaining right now.

I like Dale's spaghetti. I'm just going to put that out there. >> come to my house anytime.

And so, um we we get it a lot, but so,

it's her nature though, and I love that, and I'll know I I you know, you know, I'll have a lot of problems in my life, but my wife being, you know, spending money like a crazy person is not going to be one of them. Her husband, on the other hand, me, I have I'm the spender by nature.

And thank God I like making money. Yeah.

Because I've been good at spending it. So, uh you know, you you learn about these things when you start working this together, Avery. So, make sure you're doing it. Get Get the EveryDollar budget out and run an app run run Get the app out and run a budget as if you were married, but don't combine your finances until you are married. And do get some good in-depth pre-marriage counseling. It's one of the indicators of a marriage that lasts, by the way.

Because you get to talk about what's wrong with her mother. I mean, his mother. I mean, your dad. I mean, can you imagine the the pre-marriage counseling my kids went through? Mhm.

You're marrying into the Ramseys.

Talk about fraught with danger. No comment. Next question, please.

>> There's no air at the table. No. I mean, you got Rachel Cruze, me. There's no no there's no room for another word in. I'm just saying. >> And you still get two of the finest dudes on the planet. You got two good sons-in-law. So, I'm telling you that and your daughter-in-law. Yeah, we did great. >> did. >> great. They did great. >> They did. We taught them how to pick.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, number one best-selling author, host of Front Row Seat, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Megan's in Phoenix. Hey Megan, what's up?

Hi Dave. First of all, pleasure talking to you. I love your faith in God and it's just it's great to be on here. But, um I was

a kindergarten teacher who left teaching to be home with my kids and I found myself doing um contract work and just private tutoring to make money, um but then I did not pay my quarterly

taxes and now I found myself in a pickle, um where now I can't afford to pay my taxes. So, um I didn't pay the quarterly taxes the past 2 years and now I'm thinking, um am I just working to pay that unpaid tax?

Like, did I screw my family over in this sense?

Okay, so a portion of the money that you made should have come out to pay quarterly taxes, correct?

Yes, it definitely should have. >> Okay. And now you're having to pay it,

but you already used the money before.

So, I don't know how your family got screwed over. Your family got the benefit of money that really wasn't theirs.

Yes, really. >> in the earlier years and so you didn't screw anybody over. You just But, you created a mess, obviously, by not taking care of by not taking care of business. So, what's the tax bill?

Um for 2024 it's 13,000. Mhm. And um

this past year it's going to be 11,000.

Okay. So, you need So, 13 and 11, so we

need $24,000 and you're married, I guess. Yes. Yep. Okay. And what's what does he make?

He makes 85. Okay. And how much money do you all have in savings?

Mhm. We have about 1,500. Okay.

All right. And how much debt do you guys have other than the IRS?

Um we have about 70,000 in debt between

cars and student loans.

Okay. All right. And what do you owe on the cars? How much of that's cars?

Um 26. Okay. Thank you.

All right. And so you've got about 44 in student loans.

Yeah. Yes. Okay.

All right. Um and 24 to the IRS, I mean

the KGB. Um >> Yeah. Okay. So if you owe 13,

that means you probably made close to 50.

Yes.

Okay. And so are you planning to make 50 this year?

Um I'll make a little less than that.

And I will say for this year, I do have money set aside to pay quarterly taxes for this year. Yeah, but I mean if you

um

Okay. Well, why would you make a little less when you have a problem? You would make more. You work more.

Right. Um I One of the things that I did

for contract work isn't isn't a thing anymore. Um it was working with migrant students and and that program got it's done. Okay. All right. I can imagine.

All right. Um

But you're going to have to take on a bunch more of the other kinds of students.

Yeah. >> to offset that, but to um you know, you've got to grow this business in order to pay this. Okay. So basically we're going to work a debt snowball, which means you have $94,000 in debt, but anytime you're working a debt snowball, the IRS is first.

And you and your husband have a household income of about 135.

And every dime of that we can squeeze out of our monthly budget, we're going to throw at the IRS until it's gone and

they're going to be cleaned up in about a year. Or or sooner. Well, they need to be cleaned up a lot sooner, really.

And then you're also going to have to think about um is the $26,000 one car?

Yes, it is. Okay, that may be something that has to go away, too.

In order to make this work.

>> The car payment on that's substantial and getting rid of that and anything he can do to pick up extra work. Is there anything you could do in addition to tutoring to create income for a short period of time to clean up the mess?

Um I mean, I can pick up more more clients and I know that's a it's it's the trade-off with that is um being at at home and taking care of my kids. Yeah. >> Is the problem is we don't have any family around um to kind of help with that. Yeah. Yeah. I I you need to solve for that on the short term.

Yeah. >> It's not a long-term prison sentence, but you need to create income because of this faux pas, because of this mess.

Yeah. >> you create the income, it's going to make the mess go away and your life you're going to get your life back.

Because if you didn't have a car payment and you didn't have the IRS and you were making, you know, 40 or 50,000 without having strain on the kids and um he's making 85, you guys could work through the rest of that debt snowball fairly easy. But these two things are the glaring problems in my face and I'm like, it's 50,000 of your 94 is those two things.

Right, yeah, half of it. Megan, let me ask you a fun question, okay?

If I if I told you that you could have $100,000 cash in 3 days, but for 3 days you had to work a 10-hour shift and you had to in

order to do that, you had to have somebody to watch your kids for 3 days.

And I gave you a week to come up with child care for 3 straight days, could you do it? Yes, 100%.

>> So, I'm not I'm trying to be nice about this, but when I hear this defeatist

attitude towards childcare, and I hear it a lot, I think you got to get more innovative. And that's why I created a fantastical scenario for you to get your mind to say you would pull it off.

>> Yeah, the good news is it only takes a year of being of being completely out of control crazy, some kind of very discom- uncomfortable thing that we do for a year. Uh this is not saying I'm going to raise my children this way. It's not saying for the next decade the kids are going to be in this situation.

And when you do that, I think you can move the needle. So, I'm going to go completely crazy with your income.

I'm going to look at selling that car.

I'm going to look at him picking up an extra job. I'm going to get on every dollar budget. We're not going out to eat. You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. And you're not going on vacation. You're broke, and you owe the IRS.

Because you screwed up and didn't pay your quarterlies. And you have got to clean this up, cuz the penalties are unbelievable. The interest is unbelievable. Every day that sits out there just killing you.

Matter of fact, if you can go borrow on a credit card and pay them off, I would.

Because you're just moving one debt to another debt. And in this case, because they have unlimited power to come screw with your life. Uh they're unbelievable to work with, in not a good way. So, yeah, put them on a payment plan so that you don't have them coming after you, garnishing your wages, or hitting your checking accounts, or anything else. And then get on get rid of that debt as soon as you can. It's the first thing to go.

And um and of course meanwhile, you're paying the quarterlies on your current situation.

Ouch. That'll bite you.

Dave, real quick, I I I'd love for you to give us any answers to what is the psychology that is necessary when you get yourself in a big financial hole and it feels impossible to get out of.

You've done it. She feels it and I sympathize with that, but what is that what's going on psychologically that has to be defeated? You can do anything

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You can do anything for 90 days.

As a matter of fact, you can do anything for 180 days if it changes the whole rest of your life. It's not a death sentence for 10 years, but the next 10 weeks are going to really suck.

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Maria is in Orlando. Hi Maria, how are you?

I'm doing great. Um thank you for taking my call. I um

I don't even know where to begin. I'm so embarrassed. I have some credit card debt that long story short, I basically ignored for the last several months, you know, a couple of them have gone into collection and I'm just hoping you can help me figure out how to speak with these collectors so that I can um pay what I'm

able to pay and get out of this hole

I've put myself into.

How much credit card debt, hon?

Um about 18,000.

Okay.

All right. What do you make a year?

Um it varies, but roughly 55. Mhm.

And why have you been ignoring them?

Um I was actually paying them off and then last summer um I had some loss big loss of income compared to the previous summer and um I had some medical bills and I paid off the medical bills and neglected um the credit card ones and it kind of just snowballed from there. Mhm. Okay.

And uh are you single?

No, I'm married. My husband does not know I have debt.

Oh, he doesn't know this debt here.

Why? >> Mhm.

It's mostly because I've just embarrassed. I I don't know. You guys have separate finances?

Um yeah, for the most part.

What does he make?

Um he's retired now, so he has his um

social security um every year and then he's 401k and savings from work and um Now, how much is in his 401k?

I don't know.

Yeah, you do.

No, I have no idea.

You don't know if it's 10,000 or 10 million?

No.

We have one joint bank account. I know how much is in that account.

But I don't touch the the the joint account.

Because you've done this before and he keeps everything from you.

Um I haven't really done it before, but he's always we come to the beginning of always kind of wanted to have my own separate thing.

Um And it's not working for you, is it?

No. Yeah.

And um how long have y'all been married?

16 years. Okay. Why have you not told him?

Cuz you're ashamed. You said that, yeah.

Yeah. Does he have any debt?

She doesn't know. >> No, they don't. This is a No, no debt. How do you know?

Because he had done most of the baby steps.

But you don't know what's in the 401k, but you're sure he doesn't have any debt. That's inconsistent.

No, no debt. I can guarantee that. The car How is the state of? Cars are paid off. No debt. Okay. I don't It is I was paying some of

it is because I was paying off the credit card and we just paid we paid off

the cars last year or the year before.

How much money is in the joint account?

Um I have to look again. Probably like 15.

15?

15. 15. Okay. Okay. All right. Mhm. So,

here's what this is about.

This is about behavior. It's not about debt collectors.

This is about shame and marriage.

And you don't want to come clean because of the instant you come clean, first off, he's he's going to be disappointed, and rightly so, in you hiding this, number one, but number two, you're doing it at all cuz he's he's very good with money.

And he's not going to be happy that you aren't. And then, he's got the money He probably got a million dollars in his stinking 401k, write a check and pay this thing off. And that's actually what ought to happen because a married couple, one of them doesn't know it yet, owes $18,000. So, sorry, dude, but then, what

you owe him, Maria, is the two of you get on the same page and handle money together for the rest of your lives.

Full transparency.

Period. This this end I'm going to be independent and then go do stupid stuff has got to stop.

It's killing you, girl.

It's eating you up. You're not even sleeping good because of this.

No. I know. Scary.

And here's the weird thing. As As as you sit down with him, it's going to be a really difficult 2-hour

discussion.

And the next day you're going to feel 100 lb lighter.

Cuz you've been carrying deception around in the name of shame. And if you're not careful, it becomes an identity and then you got a real problem. And it's not an identity, it's just you screwed up. You did a thing, but that's not who you are. You are not defined by the worst thing you ever did in your life. Nor are you defined by the best thing you ever did in your life.

So, there's more to it than that. So, yeah, I I think you got to sit down with him tonight and then you guys need a new system. Your system sucks.

This I do my thing, you do your thing, it's not working.

So, you guys need to be on the same page and it sounds like this, "Honey, I need your help. Mhm. I need to know what's going on with the money not because I want to mess up your stuff, but because I want to get in on how good a job you've been doing.

Because you have this all separated and now you're just out in the cold with a bunch of money. And you don't want, you know, you don't want to live in shame either. Please, do not let the sun go down with this secret.

It's eating you up, my little sister.

Let it go.

Okay? Mhm.

Tonight you tell him, "Okay?" Mhm. Say Say okay.

No, I will talk to him, yes. Okay. Now and tell him every bit of this.

>> like a child with a bank. Yeah. And just just I am so I you know, I didn't want to tell you because I'm ashamed, I feel inept and I need your help. I need to work together with you on money from now on. The way we've been doing it for 16 years is not working. I'm not as good at it as you are. I don't want you to do it all by yourself. I want us to do it together so that I know how to do this in case something happens to you.

Yeah, Maria, just real quick, do you trust him?

Yeah. Yeah, I know.

I asked an obvious question cuz I want you to hear it.

Well, let me ask you this. What do you think What do you think his reaction would have been if a couple years ago, before you got into this mess, you said, "You know what? I want to have combined finances. I want to do this together.

I think you're better at it than me and you know what you're doing." How What What would his reaction have been?

He'd probably welcome it. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, I I want to say I'm bringing this up is because emotionally I want you to hear that that kind of guy who you love and

respect, who would have been on board with this from day one, while he will be disappointed, I think this a good man and I think he's going to welcome you going, "I messed up. I don't want to ever do this again." >> is the cost of us getting on the same page, I'll write the check. >> I think so, too. And that's what I'm getting at. And I I hope that takes the edge off. >> well invested, but Yeah, cuz you're right. I'll guarantee you, he's loaded.

I just have a hunch. >> There's a million dollars in that 401k for as a dime.

I think you're right. I I absolutely felt that. >> Yeah. And I feel for her, too. And I get That's why, by the way, she's so shame You nailed it. She's ashamed because he's been so good with money. Yeah. It just um

the weight of something like that is multiplied every day you carry a secret.

And when you shine light on stuff, the bugs run to the corner. The roaches run for the hills, man.

They get out there and do little dances in the dark, but it's hard for demons to exist when you shine light.

Demons don't like light. They run.

So, just when you just lay everything out, there's no place to hide.

You just got to be who you is then.

Ah, so clean.

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>> In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Addison and Autumn are

with us. Hey guys, how are you? Good.

How are you doing? Better than I deserve. Where do y'all live? Uh we live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Fine.

Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> We paid off $184,000.

Goodness. How long did that take? Uh 32

months. Wow. And your range of income during that time? It went from 127

uh to $200,000. Excellent. What do you two do for a living? I work in a family business doing drywall. Mhm. And I'm a wedding photographer. Awesome. And you're making a couple hundred a year between those two. Excellent. What kind of debt was the 184,000 in 32 months? Our house. YOU

PAID OFF YOUR HOUSE? You two weirdos.

How old are you guys? I'm 26. I'm 27.

And you paid off a house. >> Yeah. I just I can't I'm speechless. That's amazing. Congratulations. So $184,000

mortgage, what's the house worth? Uh it's around 340, somewhere around there.

Okay. How long have you two been married? Uh almost 3 years. >> Yeah. 3 years in April. So you got married, bought a house, and the first order of business is 32 months later pay it off. Well, the house was already bought. Oh, it was already bought.

>> bought the house the week that we went on our first date and met. Oh.

Yeah. So you were stuck with it. Yeah.

I like it. >> Okay. Yeah, stuck with a paid-for house.

Now, what would you say it's worth again? Like 340. Okay. And it's a paid-for house in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Yes. Wow, man. That's amazing. So what in the world And you're 24 and 26? 26 and 27. 26 and 27. I'm sorry.

Okay. All right. Wow. So uh uh what you know, all we hear about all the time and the negative things in the media is is that Gen Z, your generation, is stuck. They can't buy a house. It's not affordable out there. It's impossible. Yet, you went and bought one the week you started dating and convinced this young lady to marry you and help you pay it off.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

How How does it Where do you Where do you people come from? How does this How does this happen? How did you get How did you run into the Ramsey stuff?

Well, we grew up like our parents had like grew grew us up with Ramsey principles and like the envelope system.

And so, yeah, then Both sets of parents?

Yeah. We Yes. Both of you are financial peace babies. Pretty much. Yeah. Oh my god. I have to ask the obvious question.

Was this an arranged marriage? No.

No, but the parents were happy about it.

>> were. My dad was very happy.

I think you found a good one. He knows ABOUT THE ENVELOPES.

WOW. THIS IS INCREDIBLE. I'm serious.

You had to go home When y'all had both discovered that both your parents were doing the Ramsey stuff, that had to be a little weird. Yeah, it definitely was.

But, it was really exciting cuz it was it was like Autumn had the same values as I did, which I mean, honestly transformed and uh translated into the rest of our marriage. And it was just like, "Wow, this is very easy. I mean, this is so simple, such a simple plan." And uh we were able to work together on it seamlessly. So. How did y'all meet?

Blind date. A blind date?

>> set up. Wow, okay. So, you weren't like going to the same church or something? >> No. No. All right. Cuz I thought maybe your parents, if they'd gone through FPU together or something, that'd be too much. All right. >> Yeah. Wow, okay. Yeah. Pretty incredible. But, we just like made a lot of really like wise financial decisions like right when we were like 18, 19.

So, we like cash-flowed college and like bought cars we could afford. And you know, all the things that you teach.

>> So, when you entered into this, all there was was the mortgage. >> Yes. And it was brand new. Yes. We just got it when she started dating. Yeah. Then you get married and 32 months. So you did about 60,000 a year for 3 years,

give or take, around 5,000 bucks a month

making 127 to a high of 200. You lived

on nothing to do that. Y'all pretty intense knocking that mortgage out. It didn't really feel like nothing though.

We just followed our budget.

Okay, all right, let's get into this. What was your budget in year one of your marriage based on what income at that time? Well, it was based on roughly I mean it was 127,000 a year.

And so we just I guess it was like 8,000 a month. I guess I don't know.

>> so what was the what were the bills if you just or if you can remember what were your to cover all your expenses out of that? Oh boy.

Roughly, I'm not holding you to that. Putting like half grand a month average.

Yes, and it definitely near the end is when we started piling it on a lot more on the house. >> year. So maybe 3 grand in the early years and 6 grand or 8 grand in the later years. As Autumn's business as Autumn's photography business started to grow, um definitely was picking up a lot more weddings and yeah, the money just kind of started rolling in.

I was like, "Wow, this is amazing." And we based our budget mostly off of his income cuz I was really consistent. Mhm. So then anything extra that I made that was above the minimum amount that we set aside and planned for that I would make, we just threw on the house. So that was just our goal and so So that pull the taxes, throw the rest at the house, yeah.

Exactly. Yeah.

Cool. Good for y'all. I'm so proud of you. I know your mom and dad are proud of you.

I both of you. And they all came, right? Both sets of parents came out to celebrate. They're in Nashville, okay.

Wow, that's amazing. Very, very cool. All right, um Well, this is kind of makes the case of it's very important to choose a good mate. Oh, yeah.

We've been talking about the value of marriage earlier. Dave went on a marriage rant that was great and this really illustrates it. Here's what I want to know because we put it to you guys like you guys were super intense and Autumn your response was, "It was fine.

Mhm. So, as a young couple, you're starting out, and the world is your oyster, right? How did you develop that contentment? Was it

a a discipline thing, or was it the way you were raised? I'd love to know why you were so content. >> Mhm. It was definitely the way we were raised, but also like we're Christians, so like we we knew that there was joy in contentment and and just not comparing ourselves to anybody else. So, it was just like how we could keep our keep looking at it like each other and just connecting with each other.

Um, yeah. Yeah, and we made the budget together, and we were both like okay with it. We still did so many fun things, too. So. I love I'm just I'm

just I just don't sense a lot of time spent with Instagram influencers.

No. I mean, I'm on Instagram, but I know, well, you have a child I mean, you have a photography background, yeah.

But I mean, I got I don't think you're sitting there doom scrolling wanting stuff. I mean, it's just >> No. Yeah, that's not you. Yes.

>> And matter of fact, there's some data out right now that shows the amount of hours spent on Instagram equals the number of dollars spent. It's ridiculous. Yeah. Okay, quick follow-up for this young couple, cuz a lot of young couples listening to this, they think you guys are amazing.

>> How have you What are your dreams? Give us You don't have to give us this grand plan or share something you don't want to share, but what How have you your dreams, or is there something that has changed now that you realize that you guys have a house included, and you're 26 and 27?

Yeah, it's it's kind of surreal, because like I it's something that as I bought the house as I was like working like straight out of high school at 18, it was something that I was like striving for. Like I knew I wanted to buy a house, and I knew I wanted to to pay it off, and then to marry someone who had the same values. And like when she like we both wanted to pay it off right away. So, it was just like it was really cool to be able to work on that work on that together and enjoy enjoy that life together.

So, now looking forward I don't know, I mean, we're just excited to build wealth together and and build a a life that is good for our family for us.

Congrats. >> So, I think that's just like so motivating and encouraging. Like when we set a goal, we can work towards that together and just be on the same page and like yeah, it can be go faster than we really ever expected it to go. All right. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is?

Honestly, contentment like you were talking about. Just keeping your eyes fixed on the goal that you have as a as a couple or as a family. Um Sticking to your budget. Setting that have that conversation together and we were both okay with every line item, how much we were giving and so, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Now that you're 100% free,

no payment at all, does it feel different than you thought it would feel? Uh yeah, it's just kind of like uneventful cuz life still goes on.

>> Like we still we were living in the house, so like No nobody shot off fireworks in the backyard. It was weird.

No. Yeah. No, I was like sick when we paid like our last mortgage payment, too. So, it really felt just like Yeah. Yeah. I got the flu. I don't care.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're going to throw we're going to celebrate today. We're going to have fireworks going crazy. We're so proud of y'all. Y'all are amazing. You're like the perfect couple. You You young You Gen Z'ers, here here's your poster children right here. Addison and Autumn, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, 184,000 paid off house and everything in 32 months from 26 years

old and 27 years old. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

3 2 1 We're debt free. YEAH.

>> WOW.

SO, IT'S INTERESTING.

I was um checking out at a place the other day and um young men working the valet, two two high schoolers. One of them was in our classes in high school.

And he's like, "Hey man, stuff on YouTube, man. Cool. Thank you, man." and all this stuff. And he said um So, give give me one of the other one pipes up and he said, "Give me a proverb, Dave." And I went,

"Okay. Where's that coming from?" Cuz I I love proverbs and this kid must have actually known something about who we were. And so um because if you read Proverbs, the book of wisdom in the Bible, over and over you'll have a master's degree in finance. And it happened to be the 22nd of March.

And I said, "Well, here's one for you.

Proverbs 22:7 says, 'The rich rules over the poor and the borrower is slave to the lender.'" Oh, by the way, here's the interesting thing. Proverbs 22:6 says,

"Train up a child in the way he should go.

And when he is old, he will not depart

from it." Now, keep in mind that there are not numbers in the original scriptures. And so, there's no 22:6, 22:7. So, if you actually just read that, it says, "Train up a child in the way he should go. When he's old, he'll not depart from it. The rich rules over the poor and the borrower is slave to the lender.

Train up a kid that's to stay out of debt. It's pretty close. But we separate those because proverbs are very disconnected sayings and we don't usually put them together. And I said, "So, train your kids up to stay out of debt." And uh so, train them up when they go on a dating website to find another family that went through financial peace. See, when you change your family tree, here's how you do it.

You cannot change your family tree simply by stacking cash.

If you raise idiots, they will go through everything you made, no matter what you make.

If you leave idiots money, there will be no money. It will not survive one generation. No kidding, we all know that. I mean, you can't leave them you know, $100 million, they'll still blow it. And there's not a You can't but you can't stack enough cash to leave it to idiots. So, the way you change your family tree has two components to it.

One is you raise godly, strong, contented

young men and women that find each other and choose to marry someone like them and you leave them a stack of cash.

In this case, this young couple has not had yet the inheritance of the stack of cash that is waiting on both of them probably.

But instead, they are already almost millionaires at 26 and 27 with a paid-for house, been married only 3 years. In 32 months, they paid off their house. But mom and dad changed their family tree by teaching in both cases.

These kids were raised in an environment of biblical wisdom, common sense ways of

handling money, get out of debt, stay out of debt, be on a budget. They're financial peace babies.

They know not to They don't have credit cards. They're They're not motivated by the name brand on your purse.

They're not motivated by fill in the blank of stupid stuff that people in America do and that consequently are broke, spending money that you don't have to buy things you really can't afford to impress people you don't even really like. That's the opposite of what we're talking about. And this young couple is like this is like every parent's dream come true. Not only to raise one, but then have them marry another one. Oh my gosh, that's awesome.

Isn't that the fun most fun thing you could think of? The only thing that would add to that is if you had somehow officiated the wedding. That would have probably You asked me, was there any more fun? That would have probably been I mean, it would have been quite the you know, you just zip in. >> pretty boring and stuff like that.

>> No, that's not a That would not be a good thing. >> you in a tux would be also exciting.

A little little Yeah, we're not even Yeah, this You asked Just keep it up, Ken. Just keep it >> was proverbial. Yeah. Is that what you >> It was rhetorical. >> Rhetorical, that's the word. That's the word, yeah. Rhetorical. That's the part where you're quiet, yeah.

I try to be when you're on, I really do.

Okay. >> suggestion. >> is the point is the way you change your family tree Yeah. is you change the mathematics of your situation, your net worth. Instead of retiring and having to eat dog food and calling up your relatives for money cuz you're broke and you worked your whole life and you have nothing to show for it cuz you spend everything you made your whole stinking life. Instead of doing that, you changed your life. Yeah. In the process, your kids watched.

And it changes their life. >> That's right. And then they become

a better version of you and a wiser version of you and you've changed your family tree. Add to that a high net worth and now you've got amazing things that happen.

So, if you study the Old Testament for instance, you would know that inheritance is very biblical uh when done properly.

And when understood it is actually God's money that you're managing.

So, see, David was prevented from

building the temple because of misbehavior.

And uh named Bathsheba. As UFO, an unclad female object. And so, um yeah, he was prevented from building the temple. So, his son Solomon would build the temple. What did Solomon build the temple with? His own money? No, with David's money. It was inherited money that built the temple. And it was somewhere around 20 billion dollars in

today's dollars to build that structure.

If you do the biblical money narrative and you fast forward that with inflation uh several thousand years, you get you get a you know, a ridiculous amount of money. So, this billionaire left a

billions of dollars to his son who built the temple. Inherited money built the temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

That's interesting when you think about it. Yeah. And so, this I did of generational change is entirely possible.

And it can go negative and it can go positive, but you you've got the ability to change your family tree. And that that last couple, man, that's just everything.

That's the whole thing. So, if you're working the baby steps, we want to get you on every dollar because that's what everybody says when they're doing their debt-free scream. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? I say it over and over and over again.

And all the time, what do they say? Got to be on a budget. Got to be working together. Got to be on a budget together.

Got to be working together on a budget. Got to be on a budget. Got to be on a budget. Every dollar.

We love every dollar. Every dollar got us out of debt.

to make you do the budget the correct way to work our system. And if you don't want to work our system, you're really not going to like EveryDollar cuz we're going to be like up in your face going, "This is the fastest way to get out of debt and build wealth and be outrageously a and change your whole family tree.

is every dollar. And it's free. You can download it at the App Store or Google Play. Ta-da, just like that. David is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Hi David, how are you? I'm doing well. How about you, Dave and Ken? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help?

Um so, I am a Lutheran pastor and my

question is should I opt out of Social Security and what steps should I take if I do so? Cuz I mean, you've been mentioning changing your family tree.

If I did that, I would actually change my family tree with investing and also helping out fellow Christians.

Cuz I mean, as a pastor >> old are you, David?

I'm 28. Perfect. Okay. Great question

and I've counseled pastors Financial Peace University has been taught in 50,000 churches in the past 25 years.

So, I've been asked this question a lot.

And here are the Here's the the the three or four components to to the core to the situation. Number one, Social Security provides three things. Disability in the event you became completely disabled. So, you need to make sure you have disability insurance. You need that anyway, whether you're Social Security or not. If you die, your children, your minor children will get money from Social Security. They won't get that if you opt out. So, you need life insurance. You need that anyway, about 10 to 12 times your income.

So, those are the two main things and of course, you're going to retire. And so, you're not going to have Social Security when you retire if you opt out. And so, you need to be investing for retirement, but you need to be doing that anyway cuz Social Security is not enough. You dog food if you're on Social Security. So, you have to do those three things if you opt out because you're vulnerable if you don't.

Disability insurance, life insurance,

and make sure you're saving for retirement. The fourth The fourth component is the IRS paperwork says that if in order to opt out, you have to be a conscientious objector, which means I object to the Social Security system on a spiritual basis.

Okay? Not just I don't like it.

Okay? I, as a Christian, could object to it. I can't cuz I'm a pastor I'm not a pastor, but I could object to it on a spiritual basis saying it's a horrible use money. It's bad stewardship. And so

I easily could sign that in good conscience, but you need to be able to sign that in good conscience and say spiritually I disagree with the Social Security system.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host. D is in El Paso, Texas. Hi D,

how are you?

Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um yeah, so my husband spends a lot of our landscaping budget on trying to get get grass to grow in the desert.

Is it fair for me to ask him to spend

feudal grass spending from his fun money?

How much is he spending? I got to know this number.

Well, like in a summer season between sod and seed and water, it's probably like 250 to 300 bucks out of our $500

budget.

Your $500 budget for what?

The The $500 The $500 is the line item for landscaping?

Yeah, for like a season. Okay.

>> a lot. Okay. And what's your household income?

I mean, it's a trivial amount compared to our budget.

>> What's your household income? >> 210. What? Uh sorry, 210. 210,000. Okay. All right.

>> Yeah. And um so, you know, and it's

So, it is it the um

futility that bothers you?

I think so, and um we just have like,

even though we have uh a high income, we have a lot of other things that we're putting that money towards. So, it's like we've carved out this number that we agree on, and

yeah, so maybe it is the futility, and I don't mind it that he wants to experiment with growing grass, but this is three seasons now. So, is it fair to just call it a hobby?

How much does he enjoy it? Apparently, a

lot.

Well, does he enjoy it, or does he just feel like it's really ugly, and it's more of a a thing that bothers him versus he's really loving the time spent on it? That's what I'm trying to get at.

I think that he's an analytical person who doesn't like to lose. Mhm.

>> And so, I feel like it's almost like Sisyphian. >> against >> the grass. By the way, great word. You win caller of the day for using that word. That's fabulous. >> And him trying to beat the sun is That's a tough one. That's a tough one-on-one battle. >> seed is another one. They They have some great lines. Oh, man.

Um Okay.

I Um because it is a very small amount of your world, and it gives him joy.

I don't care which line item it's in, it still leaves your house.

They're still You're still spending $250 on futility, regardless of what you what you label it. You could label it futility in the budget. Have you a customized the feudal seed budget? >> That's a different kind of utility.

>> Yeah. And so, uh you just put it right there under, you know, subset of landscaping and it's, you know, you name it what it is, but it still leaves your budget.

Right. Oh.

And you've got another line item you want that money to go to, correct?

Yes. >> Which one? What is it?

We're saving to put in a shade structure in our backyard. A what structure?

Like a a shade awning thing.

>> Shade structure, okay.

Okay. And what does the shade structure cost?

Uh it'll be about seven grand. Okay.

All right. And so, there's 200 $250 a month for six months is $1,500, right?

Yeah. Okay.

All right. So, I think the way this would sound at our house, okay, net net, I agree with you that this is feudal, probably. And net net, I agree that it's cool for him to want to do it anyway. And net net, we're all in agreement on these three things. You have the money, it's no big deal, okay?

So, uh it's not killing your family, your children have diapers, all that. I mean, we're okay. So, um the uh uh

the So, at our house, it would sound something like this. Look, it's bothering Sh- Sharon would say, "It's bothering me that we're wasting money on X because we're saving for Y and I think we could get there faster. And I'll say, "Yeah, but it would bother me to not do the futility seeds. I need to do those.

It's good for me." And so, I'll cut the Let's cut the budget some other places and let you get Let's get the shade thing a little faster by cutting in other areas.

either one of us because in this case, this actually means something to him. He has a valid vote in this process.

It means something to you to increase the speed at which we buy the shelter from the same sun that's killing the grass. Um I wonder if these things could work together. But Yes. Oh, there you go. We'll have a large We'll have a little patch of grass. Yeah, under the shade.

>> the shade. Dave, that's actually brilliant. >> I'm telling you. This is why I'm here.

Uh you know what Stacy would say? She would go like this at our house. She would say, uh So, how do we feel? How do we feel?

>> does that and it snaps me out of it. And I always go, "We? You don't You don't feel >> You got a mouse in your pocket? >> Yeah, you're never out there." She'll say to me like, "We should weed." I go, "You don't weed anything. Yeah.

It's It's not we.

>> statement. >> But it's a great one for a wife cuz it snaps me out of it and lets me know that she's probably questioning her own actions. >> Oh, that means I have a trash problem. >> That's right. We should go to the dump.

That's never the two of us.

>> That's funny. I like that. >> Stacy and the queen of the weeds. >> and her man get along. Right.

>> The passive-aggressive >> It It snaps me out of it cuz I realize, "Oh, the queen is not happy with something." >> We. We are We are buying seed in

futility. >> Here's why I I am on D's husband's side.

I'm not anti-D. D, I get it. The I I It's kind of a fun call. It is, but here's the deal, Dave. Yard work for me is very therapeutic. I enjoy getting

out, doing a little bit of landscaping.

I'm no architect, as you you as you would know. But, I do enjoy the time out there. My brain freeze up. I get some good thinking done because I'm I'm on this menial task.

I get it. He doesn't want to give up yet. So, I think the approach is is how how do you feel about this season? You think it's going to work?

How many more seasons are we going to try this? I want to give you the Stacy tip and see >> of felt that way about our Titans tickets. Oh, exactly. How many more seasons are we going to try this?

>> How many more seasons?

Yeah. It's Talk about futility.

Boy, that's so true. You NFL fans know what we mean. Our beloved Titans. We got another uniform, another new logo.

I don't think we have any new results. We'll see.

Oh, D, it's fun. We're not giving you much of an answer, but I think he has a valid point. It is It is that, but I

also think it's valid for you to bring up because you feel like this is futile.

We need to squeeze somewhere else in the budget if you're not willing to give up the futile seeds. And I actually love Dave's and I'm being serious, D. I love Dave's suggestion. We save up, we stop

the futility, we save up for the shaded

structure, and then he tries to grow grass underneath that. I think that's actually a stroke of genius.

>> I don't I don't think it I don't think it'll work, but I think you need sun. But, what do I know?

>> It's the arid climate, Ken. It's not >> That's it. Just get a bag of rocks.

>> Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out, and broke. Don't be most people.

You work way too hard to be broke and

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slash ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Kristen in Idaho. My husband and I are in our mid-50s and both work full-time.

I contribute 15% in my employer's 401k, but my husband works for a small business and doesn't receive retirement benefits. Would you recommend that I increase my investments to cover the both of us? I don't think so, because just because he doesn't have an employer program, he still has an income and he can still be investing at that 15% rate that we teach. So, it's the principle, not necessarily the product.

And in this case, if you invest the way we teach, then he can absolutely start investing in retirement. So, you don't have to double up. You can, but what I would I would use some extra in yours if I had to, Christian. Yes.

You can do $8,600 each every year right now.

And so, that's 17,200 bucks.

Uh that 15% of 100,000, you know, would get you that, right? So, I mean, that's 17% of a $100,000 income.

So, if that doesn't get you with what you're doing in your 401k to 15%. So, if

he makes over $100,000, you'll need to do something more than or over $110,000, you'll need to do something more than two Roth's. But, you can do 8,600 a piece at uh at age 50.

And that all, you know, both of them in in 8,600 your name, 8,600 in his name, go to ramsaysolutions.com and click on Smart Vestor Pro. Find a Smart Vestor Pro in your area, they can set that up and have it auto drafted out of your checking account. It's very easy to do. In the four types of mutual funds we talk about, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. That's how mine is set up, that's how Ken's is set up. And if that plus your 401k doesn't get you there, because he makes 200k,

which okay.

He works for a small business and doesn't receive retirement benefits. The likelihood of him making 200k is pretty low. Probably. Okay. So, more than likely, you know, that'll do it. But, if it doesn't, then you could add some to yours. But, I would want you to do two Roth IRAs before you talk about adding to yours.

And to Ken's point. And um so, I think you can get there without any trouble.

London is in Atlanta. Hi, London. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How are you? Just the same, sir. How can I help?

Uh so, I'm on my last credit card of my

debt snowball. And it's at $7,800 that I got. And the entire time that I've been paying it, I've had a 0% APR on it um

until the start of this year. And now it's skyrocketed up to 28%.

Uh I'm wondering if it would be smart to

seek a a debt consolidation loan to get

a lower APR or if I should just um

bear down and What do you make? pay it off at a lower APR. Uh I make 4,700 right now.

Uh but, I'm getting married in 2 weeks.

And >> What does she make? >> quite sure. We're not quite sure. She's starting a new job. So, uh but, she'll be making 15 an hour uh part-time.

Why part-time?

Uh the it's a career advancement for her. And this is kind of an entry-level and they aren't offering full-time um for a little while.

Okay.

I'm sorry, part-time $15 doesn't sound like career advancement to me.

Uh well, it's for a pharmacy position.

So, there's a lot of room for growth.

Is she a pharmacist?

No, she's a tech. So, she's working um

All right. Yeah, she needs to get full-time work.

And if they don't if they don't provide that within 30 days, she needs to get a different job. There's no cur- This is not career career advancement on counting pills out is not No.

No, it's not you know, she's not a farm- Pharmacist going to make 135. She's not.

So, Right. uh Anyway, side from that that cuz that that but that does bring us to the point of it while she's working part-time, she needs another part-time job, too. Um, because you guys have a $7,800 debt. What other debts do you all have?

Uh, no, that's all of it. Yeah, does she have any money? Do you have any money? Not in retirement.

Uh, I've got a $1,000 for my emergency fund, but aside from that, no. And she doesn't have any money No, no no debt, either. Okay. All right, good. All right, cool.

All right. Well, the the answer is you know, no, I would not get a consolidation loan. You're going to get yourself off into some deep water with some bad paper, some bad loan terms there. Uh, what I would do is shop for a different credit card that has a 0% and just do a balance transfer.

And but here's the thing, it's $7,800.

I want you to pay this off in like 2 months.

I want you all to work like 24/7 and clear it up right now.

That's kind of been the how I paid off my other credit cards cuz I was taking up side work, but my side work's kind of slowed down right now. Well, get a different side work.

Okay.

Get more side work. >> There's always side work.

Lots of side work. What do you do for a living?

Uh, I'm a machinist. >> Oh, great. Man, you can find some work for sure. There's definitely people. Uh, good lord, and you're in Atlanta? A market that size? Oh, you can find work for sure. >> Well, I'm I'm north of Atlanta. I'm over closer to Blue Ridge. Okay. Well, you may have to may have to haul a little bit to get to some work then, but anyway, yeah, you're you're anyway, yes,

I would pick up extra work, side work, and the it's not 78,000, so this should not be around long.

And so the interest rate if you only have it for 3 months, the interest rate almost doesn't matter.

Okay. >> If if if the debt is going to be around 3 to 6 months, max, the interest rate is almost irrelevant.

But if you want to burn some calories and go get a 0% transfer credit card or a 5% interest current transfer credit card, I don't care. Anything like that, transfer it to another card, and then cut this one up, and then cut that one up as soon as you do the transfer, and then still pay it off just as fast. But, you have a $7,800 problem. You don't have a $700 problem.

And 700 is the interest we're talking about. So, that's, you know, 700 doesn't solve your problem. If you got another 0%, it doesn't solve the problem. It's still sitting there looking at you. You need a grand. As soon as you're getting married, and you need to go get it as fast as you can, and clean it up as fast as you possibly can. And, you know, that that's how I would go at this. Susan's in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hi, Susan. How are you?

I'm fine, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Uh we have a second home. It's um

um my husband and I were recently married. I didn't do anything for about a year with the home. I rented it for a year. And then when we started to delve into it, we thought we'd flip it real quick. Uh but, it's kind of become a nightmare.

And to bring it up to code, it's costing us a lot. Um so, the question is to keep, you know, plugging along, cash flowing it, or we're we brought a contractor in, and we're looking at 80 to $100,000 to get everything done. There is a mortgage still on the home.

So, we're we're kind of looking at what option >> How much is owed on the home?

Uh 80,000. Okay, what will it sell for as is?

Uh as is, I don't think it's going to bring much because it's been pretty much gutted. That's the big problem. As is, what will it sell for? Have someone look at it and tell me. What do you think it's really going to sell for? All the emotion about you being pissed off about this house or whoever gutted it, I don't care about. What will the house actually sell for?

Maybe 125. Sell it.

I wouldn't put 80 in it. Sell it and put a few dollars in your pocket.

Move on. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I won't Why put 80 into that? You put 80 into it, now now it's got to bring over 160 for you to break even on that investment, and it's already a piece of crap house that you hate.

Right?

Not exactly, but but I understand.

>> Yeah, I mean you're you're No adjective you used towards the house was positive.

Yeah, anyway, that's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes.

This thing is it's a leftover from another life that was imported into this new marriage, and it needs to be jettisoned from the new marriage. I want to clean up I want to clean house, no pun intended.

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Josh, how are you?

I'm doing well, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, my question is my wife and I have been going back and forth on whether or not it makes sense to keep our country club membership at this stage in our life and finances.

Ooh. Who says keep it? Who says get rid of it? You know, I would say I'm probably leaning more keep, my wife is probably leaning more get rid of it, but at the same time I'd say in the recent months it's been a little bit back and forth of there are times where we'll talk about it and she says keep it.

Okay, you probably had a big up front on it, right? Um so, we've been there for 6 years. We joined as junior members and we had a a pretty small upfront, actually, but then the catch is now as I'm getting older and kind of progressing up the different membership classes, if we left and came back, I'd then be hit with a big down stroke. I'd be hit with about a $50,000 down stroke if we left and came back.

>> Okay. All right.

So, base salaries end up right under 300, and then with bonuses and everything, we pretty commonly clear a little over four, sometimes a little more than that. Okay. Is this a golf membership, also?

Yeah. Yeah. And how often do you play?

So, I'll play two to three times a week during the season. We're in Chicago, so I mean we get I mean Memorial Day through Labor Day. What are your dues?

So, monthly dues before we walk in the door are 865, um and during the winter, it's about that. We don't really eat out there much during the winter, and um during the season, we play quite a bit, eat there, pretty involved socially, so couple maybe two to two grand to 2,500 a

month we're playing we're paying in season. Yeah, but you're also that that's in lieu of restaurants and some of that.

Correct. Yeah, so um or green fees, for that matter.

Um Do you have any debt?

We do. We do have some car debt. Should be cleared by the end of this year, but we have about 77,000 in car debt, and that's the it's that and our house that we have. Okay. Well, based on your usage, I don't know why you're thinking about getting rid of it.

You have the money I mean you you have the income to support that. Some of that's the the equivalent of a restaurant bill. So, basically, it's 1,000 bucks a month, $12,000 a year, and you play unlimited golf, I assume.

Correct. And um and usually you got like a food minimum, right? Yeah, I I'd say the reason I'm actually I don't have In my category, I don't have a food minimum. Um >> So the So the 2,000's if you actually did eat then. Correct.

>> Or take or take guests on the golf course, yeah. Exactly. >> Okay. So you can afford all that

if you weren't using it

and you're just burning a thousand dollars a month and you never golfed and you didn't go over there and eat then yeah, that starts to be the time that that season has that sun has set, right?

And so we sunset the idea and we move on cuz it's not it's this season of our life where not there. Uh an example would be um one of the guys working here is a member of a club that we have a corporate sponsorship into and he said I can't go play golf, I have little kids.

And he goes, "I'm not paying a thousand dollars a month to just say I belong over there." And food's okay food's okay, but it's basically a golf club. And so he's like, "No, I'm out." And so cuz he's not that and he you know, someday he may want to join something again, but it's probably a decade from now because he's got little kids and a round of golf five hours, you know.

So that was kind of where the question came from a little bit is so we I mean my wife and I were early 30's and we've got two kids both I mean we've got a one-year-old and like a four-month-old.

Um and so I do see my golf usage dwindling a little bit, but at the same time I mean I it's something I do want for my kids when they are old enough to enjoy it in let's say five six years something like that. My thought was if I left and rejoined I'd be hit with a huge down stroke at that point. So does it make sense to kind of keep it there in these next five to six years where I won't be using it quite as much.

You know, don't pay for a subscription that you don't read. Don't pay for a membership you don't use. Right? But if you're going over there and playing golf um um you know, a Chicago club's tough.

Uh there there's some iconic clubs there obviously. And um I mean I played Medinah up there the other day and it's incredible.

As an as an example, but I'm sure with based on the numbers you're giving me that's not what we're talking about. But the uh Anyway, there there's some iconic things up there. I I think when you cease to use it enough because of whatever reason, kids or whatever, then you would cancel it. But in today you're doing that in anticipation of that because it today's actual usage justifies keeping it.

Makes sense. And um and you know,

because you can't go back uh in baby step two I would keep it because of your income. Now, if you told me your income is a 100 grand, I would have we wouldn't even be having this conversation. I just don't care about your junior membership. You just can't afford it. But you're you know, you're making 300 plus and it's $12,000 and you can't get back in, so

you stay in to stay in. And but I wouldn't keep it 10 years with non-usage either. Yeah. I think it's an ROS, return on spend there.

And I mean I'll tell you what happened to me. I I joined the same golf club. I got bit I've always enjoyed golf, but I really wanted to play a lot and for 2 years I did. And then I found another hobby and in this season of my life I don't have time for two hobbies cuz I could go all in.

>> does not need a golf course. It's essentially what happened. My own wife said, "So when was the last time you played golf?" And I said, "Well, it's probably been 3 weeks cuz every nice day I was trying to get a pickleball game." And so it came down to I realized it just doesn't make any sense.

Vincent in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey Vincent, how are you?

I'm doing good. How can we help?

Well, I got a I got a Shelby uh limited edition GT 500 and it's worth it's worth about 105 I owe about about $65,000

on it. But the question I have is I owe the IRS a little bit of money about $18,000 and got some credit card bills.

And the car value which is a very rare car is going to be a value. I'm trying to wait to at least get up to 150,000 or I should just sell it now and clear off all my debt and everything else. If you did not own it and you had $40,000 in your checking account and you said I could either clean up my debts or I could go borrow another 65 and buy a car that I hope goes up in value, you would never do that. You need to sell this car.

It is a fabulously cool car.

I love the car.

But dude, you're broke.

You don't need to be driving a $100,000 car. You're broke.

Okay.

I don't think he anticipated that response. Yeah. I mean it's a hundred it's he said a $105,000 value or 65.

Take the 40 grand, clean up the mess, and move on. You can you know when you become wealthy someday and you have extra money, you can buy cars. It's okay. I buy cars. I like I like wild cars, crazy cars. I like it's fun. And that's a neat vehicle. GT500 GT500 A

GT500 Boy, that it's going to be a sad day.

Yeah. Make no mistake about it, Vincent.

What we're suggesting here is not painless. No, it's I just just That's a beast of a car.

Just removed your little finger. >> I would get one more burn out of it before I sold it.

I would burn those tires one more time.

>> It's a it's a horse. But yeah, it's it it's a it's a classic muscle car. It is going up in value. I don't disagree with you there. I don't think you're in a position to borrow money to invest in collectibles going up in value. And that's essentially what you have done.

And so I would tell you to get out of it even though my 15-year-old redneck boy says that's the coolest car ever. But yeah, still got to sell it.

It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a

better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way they can

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to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

Scripture today, 1 Corinthians 13:6 and 7. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Thomas Sowell said, "Facts can be ignored, but their consequences cannot be escaped. Woo. Logan is with us in Illinois. Hi Logan,

how are you? Hi Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I'm 29 years old. I'm a single father.

Basically extenuating circumstances over the last couple years has led me to this mountain of debt and I just I I can't even look at the bills anymore and I don't know where to start.

Okay, how big is the mountain?

Uh quick list, $26,000

in total would kind of get me set straight. Be debt free. So $26,000 in debt. Okay.

And give me a little breakdown on that. What kind of debt is it?

A lot of it's credit cards.

How much? Uh credit cards, I've got one that's 2775

28%.

Um I got another one that's only 639. I

got another that's 2980.

Um and then I think one that's another 600. That's

only $7,000.

Yeah. Okay. So they're emotionally heavy, but they're not that much. So what's the other $19,000?

Um I have a 2016 Chevy Malibu.

Uh $10,139 left at 13.63%.

>> Mhm. Um that thing is just I mean it's

falling apart. And the rest of it what's the other $10,000 in debt? The other

debt is mostly medical. I'm looking a

lot of medical. Um there's one from my last apartment um that I had to move out and I just couldn't afford it. I >> Are you Are you paying them monthly right now? No, I am not. They to a collector and I owe $2,290 to them.

>> Medical bills, do you pay any of those monthly right now?

Uh I just Yeah, I'm trying. Okay. And the from different places. >> And the um what's your income?

Uh 40,000 salary. I just got a new job.

So, I'm starting uh in 2 days. What were you What did you used to make?

Uh I was making a little bit more than that. I was making about 45 with But, I was working a crap ton of overtime um and I was not seeing my child.

So, this is >> were making more money, but were not current, and so you took a job making less money.

I did, but I well, I'm driving an hour 2 hours less a day. I'm not driving an hour to and from work every day.

Okay. So, that's going to save probably about 2 to 3,000 in gas.

>> Uh I am a I'm going to be a paralegal.

And how old is your child?

He's 9 years old. He'll be 10 in May.

Okay. And so, he and your ex live around you there.

Um yes. Yeah, she lives about 20 minutes away. I'm going through court proceedings and everything right now to get custody, and that's How long have you been divorced?

Um we were never married. We've been split up since he was about 1 years old, and I've been fighting this uphill battle for the better part of 7 years.

And you've been seeing him during that time? Yes, all the time. Um more so >> So, why is there a battle if you're seeing him?

Uh I just That seems the way it goes. We I fought for joint custody. Um she had the majority custody in the split-up, and then I had to fight to get joint custody. Finally had joint custody for the last couple years, and then there was uh issues that gave me protective

custody over them for last 6 months. And now I'm doing trying to get full custody or majority custody, but the judge wants us to do mediation and that costs $600 per party and then I had to pay the attorney another three.

Mhm. Were you a paralegal in this previous job doing all the overtime?

No, I was not. >> What were you doing?

Uh I was working at a warehouse on a forklift.

Yeah, I I I'm going to tell you um I I appreciate that you're saving gas on

the hour each day, but you need to be working crazy hours where you are now.

You really do. You can get out of this pretty quickly. Yeah, so here's the thing. You've spent um 90% of your brain power fighting custody

for the last however many years. You spend almost 0% managing money.

Agreed? I mean you put all of your energy into the non-zero, which is good.

You're a dad and you trying to do things for your kid and I I don't I don't blame you for that, but you get what you

um lean on and so you're going to have to lean on this money piece from an income production standpoint a side hustle temporarily long enough to clean some of this up

and to start to plow through it. To get rid of the credit cards and cut them up and get this car paid off and whatever

else we've got to do to get this thing moving, right? Um I mean you're not paying on the old debts anyway. Just let them sit for now.

I don't care about your credit and then I want you to pile up some cash. Let's get this car paid off as fast as you possibly can and get these credit cards paid off as fast as you can. The interest rates are bothering you. I know that cuz you brought them up in detail.

They're Yeah, it would seems like it >> rates are not your problem. The the rates next. I didn't say they're bothering you, but I didn't say they're your problem. Interest rates aren't your problem. They're only your problem cuz they've been around so long.

But, if you pay off these cars, your $7,000 cleans up your credit card debt, all of it.

And so, 17,000 makes your life whole.

And so, if I'm you, I'm going to go find $1,500 a month, which is $18,000 a year,

and I'm going to cut into my monthly budget to an to the tune of at least $1,000 a month. That puts $2,500 a month

on 17. That's a 6- or 8-month program,

and you're debt-free, except the medical bills and the old landlord debt.

And you can breathe again.

But But, right now, you've focused all of your energy and time. You've spent zero time analyzing and attacking the money thing, because you spent all of your calorie burn on this custody fight, which is totally acceptable. I'm not shaming you for that. I'm just pointing out that when you bother to care about the money 1/10 as much as you care about this custody thing, it's going to straighten up.

But, you have to lean in on it hard, like you've been leaning on this other thing hard.

And And >> I go first? Well, I I know some people say interest rates, some people say >> give a crap about your interest rates. I want you to get your budget on beans and rice, rice and beans. I want you to pick up 1,500 a month in side hustle, and I want you to put 2,500 a month towards credit cards. If you do that, in 3 months, the credit cards are gone, and in 4 more months, the car debt is gone.

That's 7 months.

2,500 * 7 into 17, that counted up.

Interest rates don't matter when you're doing it that fast.

And so, list your debts smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, and then get pissed off about this. It's been riding on your back too long. You need to get this thing off your back.

And by the way, your head will be clearer to to be a better dad and to fight these other battles if you're not broke. Um and then go clean up the little medical bills. They're like a bunch of freaking mosquitoes around your head.

And then call the landlord and offer him 25 cents on the dollar lump sum once

you've got a little money saved up and they'll clear that. You could be debt free in like a year.

Completely debt free in a year. But you're going to have you know, you're going to have no you're going to get nothing done during that year except

9-year-old work all the time 9-year-old

work some more and pay debt. And that's it's the only thing you get to do for the next year. Complete focus.

And you can knock this out very quickly.

I'm going to send you a copy of the book The Total Money Makeover to help you do it and we're going to get you signed up for every dollar. Chris will pick up and get all of that happening for you. You can do this. You've just been completely focused on something else, which by the way was the right thing to do.

You should be focused on your kid before you're focused on money. But the great news is is that cleaning up the money also helps the kid cuz it puts you in a better position to fight when you're not broke and staring at interest rates all the time.

That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 101. Life Happens — Don’t Let It Wreck Your Finances | August 15, 2025


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From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsy Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show, and Ramsey Personality. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Mary is in Canada. Hi Mary, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for having me.

>> Sure. What's up?

Um, so we I'm in a situation where uh

I've been married and my husband lost his job about two years ago and there's been a bunch of different circumstances that leading me to think that unfortunately this relationship might not work out. Um, so in preparing for

that cuz we do have some debt that accumulated especially in the last two years. I'm just kind of wondering like should I pay off some of this debt before we officially separate to make

things easier or how to proceed with

that?

>> Okay. So, what what's going on with him?

>> Um, well, he he was he lost his job two

years ago. um he took that very very

hard and it affected his mental health

significantly and he's been really struggling with that and we've been trying to support him. Um unfortunately

in dealing with that um some of his

choices have been not the correct ones,

you know, going into substance abuse and

>> and things like that.

>> So he's got he's he's an addict. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And well that I'm sorry that frames up

that frames up the whole thing a little differently. Okay. >> All right. And so what do you make a year?

>> Uh I make about 140 to 150,000 a year.

>> Okay. And how much debt do you guys have?

>> Uh so we have about 125,000

in debt and then our mortgage.

>> And how much is on the mortgage?

155,000. >> What's the house worth?

>> Um, if we were to sell it now, probably 500.

>> So, you got substantial equity and the 125 in debt is on what?

>> Uh, so there is one vehicle that's uh

there and then >> how much? >> There's about 50,000 on the vehicle.

>> Okay.

And then there's 7,000 on credit card

and the rest is a line of credit.

>> Okay. All right. Okay. And do you have

any money saved that's not retirement?

>> Uh about $1,800.

>> $1,800.

>> $1,800. I have $1,800. He has about

12,000.

>> Okay. So, you don't really have the option of paying off the debt.

if you're leaving anytime soon.

So, the debt is going to get the debt is going to get divided up in the divorce, is it not?

>> Yeah. But right now, he has no income to

>> understand. >> So, >> but that'll be his problem after the divorce. Pay him >> that these are based on the choices he's made.

>> Mhm. >> That's his issue. It's not going to be your issue anymore, right?

Well, no, but I think legally I will have to give him some money >> uh monthly.

>> I'm hoping to do it in a lump sum.

>> Yeah. Out of the house. Yeah. So, I would sell the house and clear the debt and clear him and start fresh.

>> That would be my strategy. But that's all part of the divorce, I think. I have no idea how this crap works in Canada.

>> Have you talked to a lawyer, Mary?

Um I did and it's

the answer is definitely we'll have to pay him something. Um

and you know selling the house is I like

ideally I would like to avoid that cuz

>> you want to keep it. >> Why?

um for the kids a little bit. It's, you

know, it's where my support

is. >> Um you know, >> but you got $125,000 in debt. You don't have a way to clear. >> I know.

>> Yeah. >> Who's driving the $50,000 car

>> currently? That's mine. Yeah.

>> We had two paid cars and then that's that's going to be sold unless you sell the house.

Yeah, >> because you can't afford it. You can't do all of this, Mary. You got to decide.

You're going to have to decide where the pain is. And um the uh your support's in

that neighborhood. It's not in that house, >> right? >> So, I mean, go down the street and rent an apartment in the area and that's got cuz the kids, listen, the idea that you keep the home is going to make the kids okay. The kids aren't okay already.

Their dad's an addict. He hadn't worked in two years. The kids feel all of this in the air already. It's already established in your household. So, the kids are already going through trauma and moving is the least of their traumas. Um, especially if you just move down the street and keep them in the same school and so forth. So, that

I don't know what you're going to do. Uh, I'm sorry you're facing this. It's awful. But, you need 125,000 and you

need enough money to write him a check for him to go away. And I only see one source of that. And that all has to happen at >> simultaneously. Yeah. For her to have a good life. >> Yeah. >> I mean, if she keeps all this debt Yeah.

and keeps this house >> and, >> you know, and and just basically boots him out and she takes all of this as her responsibility, >> that's going to be very difficult today.

>> For sure. For sure. >> It's not And you know, it's just to me it's not worth it. >> I I would want a clean, fresh start after this tragedy that you're going through. >> Yes. And you may still have some left over. from the sale of the home with everything. >> Well, it depends on what we got to pay him. I mean, there's $350,000 worth of equity on >> and paying him onetime fee is what she's hoping like a one time lum. >> So, if you pay off 125k out of 350.

>> Yeah. >> You've got two and a quarter left. If if he goes away for 100, you got 100 and a quarter left. But he's not going to go away for 100 because he's going to want half the house. >> Right. Right. >> So, it's it's a problem.

>> Yeah. And I understand Mary the wanting the stability of the least amount of change possible for the kids, right?

Like I do understand that mindset of as

much as we can keep the same better. But but drives you into a trap.

>> What what I was going to say is >> your role as a mom and a parent is going to help override a lot of that. Like I do think there can be a not a false sense by any means, but an overreaching of a belief of like, okay, but if this stays the same, everything's going to just be a be a little bit better. But I think you as an engaged mom, not a stressed out mom, not a mom that's

panicked all the time because of money, but you have the margin emotionally because you've set yourself up financially for your kids. Like that is as much of a gift than trying to create the same similar >> Well, if the kids stay You're exactly right. If the kids stay in a home that is full of financial stress, >> Yeah. >> it's not a it's not a net positive.

>> Yeah, that's right. Yeah. >> It's a net negative. And that's what we run into all the time is this idea that somehow the home is going to make this whole thing better. >> And it's not. Uh what makes it better is for you to get in a place where you don't have cuz you've been fighting demons for a while. I mean, they're they're coming at you from everywhere.

And so you got you got financial stuff coming at you. You got all this addict stuff. you you all this conflict and anxiety with the husband. I mean, and to have all of that gone, man, it's a breath of fresh air. I'm sorry you're going through this, though. It's horrible.

[Music]

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[Music]

>> Carrie is in Denver. Hey, Carrie. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> All right. So, about two years ago, I got a settlement from a car injury. Um, and it was for quite a lot of money. It was for $350,000, which is like the most money I've ever seen or ever expected to see in my life.

So, I think I way over complicated it. I felt really weird about putting all of it into the into the brokerage account.

So, I split it up and now I've got like 10 different accounts. And my question is like, should I combine a lot of these? >> What accounts are they?

>> Okay, so I've got a SE IRA, >> a Roth IRA, a traditional IRA, a

brokerage account, two CDs, and a high

yield savings account.

>> That's called diversification. Car,

you do have a lot.

>> They're not all terrible, though.

>> No. Everything's fine. The only thing I would I would probably roll your CDs into the high yield because they're paying about the same and the high yield doesn't have any penalties. But that's a minor that's a minor detail. But um

>> okay, >> overall they're not all different accounts. They're all different um >> methods of uh I mean you've got some retirement things you did which are wise. You've got some short-term things that you did that you may use some of the money like to buy a house or something in five years. That's the brokerage account.

And then you've got some money that's just sitting there liquid, meaning it's not it's not at risk at all. It's just sitting it's not earning anything hardly. And that's the high yield savings and the CDs.

>> I've been listening to your show. It's actually you guys. >> Oh, wow. Okay. Well, there you go. The

people that advised you were geniuses.

I'm just >> pat yourself on the back there, Dave.

>> Those people those people that helped you, they're just smart. I'm just saying. Yeah. >> Yeah. you pro what what I always tell folks to do listen you you you're you mentioned something that's very important this is amount of money I never thought I would see >> it's so what that amounts to is I'm doing something I've never done >> and and so I feel intimidated and inept

which is normal that would be normal to feel that way if you're doing something you've never done before right so

>> um I I would want to go on a a learning

journey uh more than just listening to our YouTube clips or something um to where you begin to say, "Okay, I I felt

that way at first, but now I over the last three years I've learned all these different things and I've had these different experiences with these investments and now I feel very comfortable and competent and that should be that's your big goal is to get the other side of the learning curve on this." And it's not a panic, but I want you to feel confident and I don't want you to ever to where 5 years from now, 3 years from now, you're not saying that anymore, >> which also means you're not going to make any mistakes.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, yeah. So, I would tell you to go to a Smart Veester Pro is what I'm saying. Get go to Ramsey Solutions and click on Smartves Veester. Find a Smart Veester Pro in your area. sit down with them and and have them look over what you've done and um you know and if they

would do anything different or if you want to move the accounts with them that's fine and just begin to learn um

you know what we're doing and where we're going from here.

>> Yeah, it's great. >> It's very >> well done. >> Very smart. >> Y >> it's funny. All right, Lauren is in Ohio. Hey, Lauren. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. Hi Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure.

So, I'm 30 years old. I have been

following the baby steps for a little over six years, probably about seven now. I got out of debt. I have an emergency fund. I was able to pay cash for a car last year and I've

>> Thank you. Thank you so much. Um, I've been ready to start saving up for a house. I'm currently renting, but I've also been in a relationship with someone for eight years. Uh, he's 49 and is not very financially responsible and I think I need some advice on next steps to take.

>> Dang. So, your financial transformation

happened while you've been dating him.

Like you said, you went you did all of this. Okay. >> Yes. >> And meanwhile and meanwhile he did nothing.

>> Pretty much he cleaned up some tax problems that he'd had in the past.

>> Good. He's He's now legal every >> Yes. But he's since financed vehicles

and now he has one working vehicle and one non- workinging vehicle and they're both financed and he's very upside down and >> so exactly what is your question?

>> Uh exactly my question is do I need to

take care of myself by getting out of here or is there something else I can do

to help him, you know, see the light quote unquote? Well, have you guys have you guys talked about it? Had conversations over the last eight years about money >> for many many years. Yeah.

>> And you raised these concerns that it makes you nervous and kind of fearful with his financial patterns. And what does he say?

He basically he either becomes very defensive like I'm I'm doing this and I'm doing that and >> if I just change this one thing this will all go away and or you think I'm so

bad with money and you finances.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I kind of do. Yeah, >> I kind of do. I just don't know where to go from here. Is it is it time to to you

know face the facts or >> I mean a question I always like to ask Lauren is do you look at him and think >> what a winner >> he is.

>> Do you? >> Yeah. Yeah. There's no there's there's that. Yeah. That's in there. That's uh >> Do you want to be married to that? You don't you don't respect him, do you?

>> You don't respect him. >> No, I don't. >> I don't at all. >> Oh. >> It's not a matter of whether he's holding you back. It's a matter of what do you want to spend your life with?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I'll say this, Lauren, to me, it's not about the money, you know, a certain amount of money that he's worth or whatever. It's the values and the patterns at which he lives his life. And when those are in conflict with how the value system at which you live your life, that's a really hard marriage to be a team and to enjoy life together.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, >> you're you're going to make him miserable.

You're going to make him miserable >> and he's no and he's going to make you miserable. But I mean, you need to understand that, you know, just just standing beside him makes him the reflection is not good. You know, I mean, it's >> um that's the truth. I mean, you your your very presence reveals his deficits.

Uh and so >> I often feel like his mother rather than than his >> brother. Yep. Yep. Well, because you

sound like the responsible one, the one that lives in reality. You know what I mean? >> Well, I I think you've already made your call before you called here, haven't you? >> I might have. Yep.

>> I'm sorry, Lauren. That's hard. I mean,

that's a Yeah.

>> Do you guys live together? Are you guys going to have to like separate? Okay. Yeah. So, it's going to be a big Yeah, this is a big a big breaking for sure.

>> Absolutely. >> And here's the other thing. Um, it's been eight years

And this is not and it has been discussed over and over and over and over. >> He's not going to change.

>> That's what I was afraid you'd say.

>> So when you when you announce this and he says, "Oh, I'll change." He means it, but he still won't.

>> But he still won't. Yeah.

>> Do you think I mean the p the pattern is ingrained? >> I just know. >> Yeah. >> Well, Annie's a 50year-old man. Do you know what I'm saying? I'm like, it's not like you guys are both 24 year olds. And he's like trying to figure out the world. I'm like, dude, >> you got like 12 years on on me and my

husband. I don't know. Pardon me. He's like, you're 50 years old.

>> I tell you what I would do is I would pick up the book Necessary Endings

>> by Dr. Henry Cloud. I think >> it will uh inform your intellect and soothe your emotions.

>> Okay. as you as you decide as you decide to walk through this >> because it's a it's we're doing an emotional thing with an intellectual discussion >> and that's that's a hard you know and then when you get into it it's going to be emotional >> and um >> absolutely >> because you're not a psychopath so and you like him you love him you don't want to hurt him >> you're you're not a mean person we're not trying to bully someone or gaslight them or something like that it's just you're you're just going this is just not going to end well I don't want to be sitting here 40 years from Mhm.

>> That's what you're saying.

don't respect him. And it's hard to it's hard to do >> in in-depth close relationships with anyone you don't respect. >> And the and his response to you pushing a little bit of conflict when it goes defensive and you start getting blamed.

Yeah. >> That's going to be your relationship, not just with money, but other things, right? That's the the value system and the paradigm he he lives in. Mhm.

>> And yeah, you don't want a partner like that, you know.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. These are new trainings every month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsay personalities. Rachel, when are you doing the next one? >> Uh, next week. Okay.

>> I think maybe Wednesday. >> Coming up soon. >> I did one this week. Yeah, they're great. They're really >> We're showing you how to stick to a budget and you find thousands of dollars of margin.

>> Everybody that goes through it, we show you here, you can do this, this, this, and this. We give you a list of things.

It's always thousands of dollars of things you can do to start turning the corner. And so ask any question during the live Q&A. George was saying yesterday that the live Q&A is excellent. >> Oh yeah. Well, it's fun. It's like this show. I mean, you get to Yeah. People jump on >> except you can actually get through. Yeah. >> Yeah. You're there.

>> So, sign up for free at ramseysolutions.com/webinar.

Free every dollar trainings. Free. Did I

mention they're free? Chance is in Sacramento. Hi, Chance. What's up?

>> Hey, how you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help >> man? This is cool. Uh so, um I'm

actually calling about uh I'm calling on behalf of my mom.

Um I'm a small business owner. She works

for me. Um there she's getting she's 62 and she was

having a little bit of a tough time getting laid off at different jobs she was working at. So uh now she just works for me and it's pretty, you know, low stress. But I'm just concerned about,

you know, what I can do as a son to help her out with her future retirement and

kind of where she's at right now. Um, I have a list of, you know, some of the different amounts that she currently has whenever you're ready. >> Okay. Um, what do you make? What's your income?

>> So, uh, I I bring home 83,000, but take

home's about 73. >> And that's on this business.

>> On the business? Yeah. >> Okay. And what what are you paying her?

>> Um, 45,000.

Okay. >> Makes 22 40 hours.

>> Okay. All right. You were getting ready to say something on the 83. You make profit in addition to that.

>> Uh yeah, that's just my salary.

>> Okay. So, what's the what's the business make? What's your profit that you get paid that you can pay taxes on?

>> Oh, these are this is good. I'm getting in I'm getting a lot better at this. So,

uh last year was 1.5 to 1.4 four and we

made a profit of about 100,000.

>> Good. >> This year we're going to do >> You made a profit of 100,000 after you paid yourself 83.

>> Correct. >> So you made $183,000 personal income.

>> Correct. >> Because you own 100% of the business, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. That gives me tells me what you've got to work with to try to help her other than the 45. Okay. So what does

she have? Does she have any money saved?

>> Yes. Uh so currently there's um $97,000

in an annuity, an indexed annuity that's

going to mature next year.

>> Good. >> Uh and 91,000 in a individual brokerage account.

>> Mhm.

>> Uh 57,000 in a traditional IRA.

>> Mhm. >> And almost $7,000 in a Roth IRA.

>> Good. Good. Okay. What I would do is take her and sit down with a Smart Investor Pro in your area, a broker that we recommend, and help them develop a plan to get all of this money working together. She's got about almost $300,000 there. Um 250 anyway, and uh

get that all working for her, keeping her hands off of it. Let her build a sustainable budget on the 45. Um, and if

she just leaves it alone and keeps working in 7 years it will double.

>> So it'll be instead of 250 it'll be 500.

>> Man, that's that's good news. >> Yeah. >> Um, that that seems a little bit better than the amount I was looking at.

>> Yeah, cuz this is a little slim. It's not enough, but she's only 62.

>> So, I mean, she can work as long as long as she can keep working and you can keep paying her. Um and then of course you

know do you have many how many employees do you have?

>> Um so we have eight guys in the field and three of us are management with my mom being one of the managers.

>> Okay. All right. Well I mean if you can find uh if if you wanted to start you

can talk to the Smart Master Pro about that too. What's called a simple 401k

um or simple IRA. It's a 401k for small businesses. Costs nothing to get it started, but you do have to match up to 3% what people put in, but she could continue to put money in that and you can match her then. Um, and you, you know, you can help her that way and help her fund her Roth IAS every year in addition to having this money invested well. So, there's some things you can do here. >> Yeah. Did she have >> because you're making some money?

>> Yeah. chance did she have a age that she was wanting to retire and you guys were trying to figure out if she was able to or is she great to work for longer to get this built up?

>> No, my my family dynamic is kind of um

you know my my dad had an injury a long time ago, so he's not in the picture.

Um, and my mom is kind of not looking at

me for but like I just I want to be a

good guidance for her. So she >> I'm looking at her to work to 72.

>> Yeah. She's ready to work for as long as she'd like to. And even if she's not, I'm still going to pay her, you know, or take care of her, do what I need to do.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, uh, be careful about

that part of this. Let's let's develop a plan that has the dignity of sustainability on her own where she doesn't have to be. >> Is she going to be a problem in the workplace for 10 years considering she's gotten laid off so many times or is it she is she do good? She's good in her role and everything. >> Well, my my my sister passed away and it

after that she >> she left work for a while and then when she came back all of the you know the

other admin ladies were younger, faster and >> I gotcha. Okay. Okay. Yep. Now that makes sense. >> I got you. >> And we don't have any property in in our family. Like she doesn't own a home. She's renting right now.

>> And the rent is a little bit higher than I mean it's like 1,400 bucks. >> Yeah. It's a lot. Yeah.

>> So I think you sit down, develop a plan with a good smart vest pro and that will tell you what you're going to do and and also will inform her. I think she's working a while. Um, and and I think I

think that, you know, I think it's good.

I don't think that's bad. There's nothing wrong with that. Uh, I'm getting ready to turn 65. I plan on working and not cuz I have to, but cuz I enjoy it.

And so, uh, this is what I do and I

don't really have anything else I want to do. So, that's perfect. So, um, you know, uh, she's got that same situation.

She gets to work with her son who's got who who's loving her and taking care of her and so forth. And so, she can stay right there and earn an income.

meanwhile continually putting some money in. Meanwhile, investing this current money that she has better than it's invested now so that it'll produce more because it's not, you know, it's probably not doing that well right now.

So, you do need to reorganize the money that she has. And that's why I'm sending you to a Smart Ver Pro to help you figure every bit of that out. Virginia's in Pennsylvania. Hi, Virginia. How are you? >> Fine, thanks. I'm a new listener.

>> Okay. How can we help? Well, my question is, is it make financial sense for me to

continue to be the co-owner on my 33-year-old unmarried son's financial

accounts? >> No. >> I opened these up for him when he was an infant. >> Yeah. >> So, >> no, this is like a man and he doesn't

need his mommy on his account.

>> I'm trying really, not that he's irresponsible, but I'm really trying hard. >> He's 33. If he's irresponsible, it's his problem. >> He doesn't make a lot of money. >> I don't care. >> So, >> okay. >> No, I mean, really, you you cannot carry a 33y old around and change his diaper, honey. I mean,

>> I don't I was always told there should be a co-owner on on bank accounts.

>> I'm sorry, say that again.

>> I was always told there should be a co-owner on >> Who told you that?

>> My parents. >> Oh, okay. That's shocking.

Okay. No. Uh, let me just tell you, Rachel's sitting beside me. She's my daughter. Um, she's in her 30s. The number of bank accounts of hers that I'm on is precisely zero.

>> Not Not even close.

>> It's hard to let go. Virginia, that's a good boundary. >> It's a good boundary. >> He needs to fly and be free. And if he makes mistakes, he's going to have to learn it as a man. >> Goody.

>> I'm glad you're a first- time listener, though. Glad you're here.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

If you like the show, thank you. We

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We appreciate it. Brianna is in Tex Arcana, Texas. Hey, Brianna. What's up?

>> Or Briana? Is it Briana or Brianna?

>> I go by either, but it's Brianna.

>> Brianna. Okay.

>> How are y'all today? >> Good. How can we help?

Um, I was giving y'all a call. We're kind of in a pickle. Um, we're currently

renting and our landlord is selling the house. It is 30 days to um, move out.

>> Okay. >> So, we've got a couple of um, options.

I'm in touch with contractors in the

area because I work with them. We looked and saw a house yesterday that was 1,300

a month um, >> for rent, >> which is Yes. Okay. What are you paying now? >> $1,150. >> Okay, cool. That's good. All right.

>> Okay. Um, we do have some debts right now. We have um we have two cars that we

are paying down a lot on and a Discover

card. So, to total in debt about 25,000.

>> Okay. >> So, I've got two options. I can either um start paying a little bit more in rent um and you know push our we want to eventually build a house >> or um we can my sister told me we could

go ahead and get a c loan out a camper

and live on her property so we can rat

hole a lot of money for a down payment on a house and start building.

>> Take a loan and buy a camper.

Well, take Yeah, I know. Take a loan out

for a camper. >> Yeah, I got it. You just said that out loud.

>> Yeah.

Well, you Yeah, I know.

>> Oh, no. Yeah. So, no, we're not going to

finance something that's going down in value while we're trying to get out of debt to save up money to buy a house.

It's working against you. You're swimming upstream.

Not only is it going down in value, but you're paying interest for it to go down in value, >> right? >> Oh, and by the way, you're living in a camper. There's that, too.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'd go rent that $1,300 house in about the next 30 minutes before it gets away.

>> It's okay. >> What's your hesitation, Brienne? I'm just curious. Is it that >> I guess it's just >> you feel like you're throwing money away renting?

>> Yeah. In a sense. Yeah.

>> Okay. The two What do you guys owe on the two cars?

>> Um I owe 17 on one and then 4,600 on the

other. >> Okay. >> What do you guys What's your household? >> What do you What do you make?

>> Uh we're Last year we did 125.

>> Okay. >> Oh, that's great. >> So you should be able to clean this up in a year. You beat debt that free in a year.

>> Yeah. And also >> No, no, no, no, wait a minute. No, you didn't. You said that like you didn't believe it. I believe it. You made 125,000. You only owe 25,000. Your rent's only 1300. You should be debtree in a year. You're not on a detailed budget. Y'all are still going out to eat and partying.

>> Yeah, we started doing the Every Dollar app as well >> last week,

>> right? You're just getting started, kiddo. Hey, listen. Don't don't worry about the Every Dollar app, but if you were organized, think about this. If you make 125 and you pay off 25, that means

you have to live on $100,000. Oh my.

>> Yeah, >> you could do that.

>> Okay. >> Your cars are not out of control.

They're They're not good. I want you to get them paid off. The 17,000 one is concerning, but you make good money.

>> Yeah. What do y'all bring home every month? Do you know after tax? What hits your bank account every month for income? >> Every month. Let me think. I'm easily

1,700 every two weeks and he's at like 1,500 every two weeks.

>> 6,400. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Something's wrong. You guys got a big tax refund, didn't you?

>> Um, well, not two. It was about 2,000.

>> Okay. And And how much is coming out for 401ks?

>> Um, 6% out of mine. So 10 and Yeah. So

stop that. >> Yeah. And that pays for the the the difference of the rent. >> We do have and we do have um a an

18-month-old, but she's in daycare.

>> Yeah. But that's that's not that's not causing you to be broke. You're making plenty of money.

Okay. So here's the thing. Here's what I want you to do. You're in talking to you for a few minutes. you are uh you make

too much money and you're too smart to

be this broke.

Okay? Cuz if I run into somebody that's either dumb or they don't make enough money, I can't fix the dumb, but I can help I can help if they don't make enough money. You're not either one.

You're smart enough to do this and you are not and you make plenty of money. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to pretend like I hired you for $130,000

a year to take over Bana's budget and

make it behave. Make every one of those dollars scream like it was your job and if you didn't do your job, you were going to get fired.

>> Okay? >> And that's the every dollar budget. I'm going to take every one of those dollars that's coming in. I'm going to stop the 401k temporarily. Um, I'm gonna adjust

my take-home pay by another 200 bucks a month so that you don't get a tax refund. And that's the $2,000 because a tax refund means you gave Washington too much money and then they gave it back to you in April. Santa Claus does not live in DC. >> That was your money you got back. And so

you lay all of that out and you you make those adjustments and then you take the money that's coming in, which is now about $7,000 a month. You pay 1,300 out of it. You buy some food. You buy some daycare. You put put the electric bill on there and then you got some money to attack this and you run the ringer on this debt, kiddo. And don't be talking about living in a camper. You make $140,000 a year. Let's get this done.

>> Okay, >> you can do this. >> We have paid off. We have paid off a lot. Like easily 20,000 this past year.

>> Good. Okay, that's great. >> If you did it one more year plus a If you did it one more year plus a little, you're done. Because the cars we originally started with 1,600 on it with

16,000 on my Highlander and 9,000 on his

car and we've paid it. >> That's great. Brandon, what's the Discover? Hey, what's the Discover card?

How much do you guys owe on that?

>> 18,000. >> 18,000. >> Okay. Have is that is that cut up?

>> Oh, yeah. It's gone.

>> Okay. Good. All right. So, you disco you discovered freedom. Good. I'm glad.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Hey, get on that every dollar budget. Uh, we're going to put you in with Kelly. She's going to give you the upgrade where it connects to your bank and you can drag and drop everything automatically and it it's going to you're going to it's going to change everything. It's going to show you exactly how to walk these baby steps.

And I want you to step on this money like it was your job.

>> Yeah. Get the $2,600 car paid off this month. >> Yeah. >> Find $2,600 out of that budget and do it like extreme stuff. And this is extreme like the grocery budget, your shopping.

>> Yeah. inexpensive >> eating out and no vacations and no campers.

>> No campers.

That's No, no, no. That's going to set you back. It's going to cost you a year and a half to two years in this. Don't do that. No, your sister's sweet. She's just not smart. Don't do this. No. She was generous to let you live there. I shouldn't say that, but but that that was nice. But no, if it led to if her

suggesting financing a camper, then I'm not going to No, that's dumb. Don't do that. Don't do that. Go get that other house.

You're going to be there two years because it's going to take a year to get out of debt, build your emergency fund, then you got to build a down payment. You might be there three, >> but that's it. After that, you're going to buy a house. >> Yep.

>> And then you're going to move on and become wealthy.

>> So, you're heading out. You're doing good stuff. Keep it up. Keep it up. Keep it up. We're here to help you and we're going to hold you accountable. Hang on. Kelly's going to pick up. will get you tied into that every dollar app.

It's interesting.

That's interesting.

I I mean >> the camper. What's interesting? >> Yeah. I just I'm trying to think what what mindset >> Well, because it feels like rent.

I could see it. I could that it feels like you're throwing money away and at least you have an asset, but understanding that the asset ends up sometimes being underwater. It's like a car. like you borrow at the high end and when you try to sell it it's not you can't even recoup it.

So >> it's just yeah more details and research in it Brianna but >> good luck to you guys. >> Good question.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

Amanda is in Wisconsin. Hi, Amanda. How are you?

Um, doing great. Dave, thank you for taking my call. And um, Rachel, it's awesome to speak with you as well.

>> Oh, well, we're glad you called, Amanda.

>> Happy to talk. >> Um, thank you. Um, currently my husband

and I um, with our four children, we are on baby step number three. And, uh,

we've currently paid off about $125,000.

>> Oh my gosh. Congratulations.

Yeah, it was um it's been a lot of work, but um right now that we have more

wiggle room in the budget, we're struggling with momentum of trying to get that full on emergency fund filled up. Um, and uh, part of it has to do with we had a couple of emergencies this past year that weren't life-threatening, but they are big financial burdens that we are um, struggling to throw that

money at it to save up to that large amount versus when we were paying down our debt, you know, it was easy, you know, throwing like, you know, 3500, you know, at a things at a a time per month.

um and watching that steadily go down, but we're just we're kind of struggling with the momentum of um needing to get that emergency fund up so we can keep going forward.

>> How much do you guys have in the account now?

>> Um 6,000.

>> Okay. And your ideal number that you guys are shooting for?

>> 30,000. >> 30. Okay. >> That's 3 to six months of expenses.

>> Um no, that's just at least like a couple of months right now. Um, >> no, I'm saying 30,000 is three to six months of expenses. What's your household income?

>> Um, last year we had 110,000.

>> Okay. All right. Okay. It's pretty hefty. Uh, you may have a That may be part of the problem. You may have such a big goal you can't see getting there.

And you're throwing how much at it a month to build it or how much can you throw? Uh, >> right now uh right now we're throwing about 500 a month.

>> You didn't get out of debt at that speed.

No, we didn't. It's And that's where >> What were you throwing at it? What were you throwing at the dad a month?

>> Oh gosh. Like a couple thousand. Um.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. At least.

>> Listen, baby steps one through three >> are gazelle intensity. Like your hair is on fire, scorched earth, no eating out, no relaxing, total focus, zero

lifestyle, no vacations till you get that emergency fund bill. So, it's $2,000 a month going in there, which is a 15-month schedule from the beginning, but you're 6,000 in. And so, it's a 12-mon schedule for you to get there.

>> But you've got to I mean, you got to lay it out and look at it like that. What happened was is y'all got out of debt and relaxed.

>> Yeah. Guilty.

>> You didn't you didn't keep your intensity through this. Once you get the baby steps done, baby step three done, then you can relax and start 15. be intentional instead of intense. Put 15% of your income into retirement and start towards the kids' college and those kinds of things. But >> yeah, what does it take a month to run your household, Amanda?

>> Let's see. It takes about 3,700

and change. >> Okay. So, let's call that four grand.

So, 3 months is 12, 24 is 6 months. So,

I don't know if you need 30 or not.

Yeah, you could go. Yeah, you could lower that. >> You could call it 20 for now >> and just go get it finished. That's 14.

That's seven months at $2,000 a month.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> That probably feels more doable.

>> Yeah. At at $500 a month, you're going to get there in about 18 years. No, you can't. No wonder you lost momentum.

>> Yeah. I we last year um one of our

vehicles that we had paid off um the motor um decided to die and after

crunching it it's just cheaper to put a new motor in which is going to be about 10 grand. Um we have a second vehicle that again everything's paid off um that we're using but it would be good to have the actual truck back on the road. Um, and then we had a huge flood and the furnace died. So, we're heating our house with a plet stove, but um, we need a new furnace, which is like another 10,000. And I think that's probably where that like 30,000 came from.

>> Yeah. You feel overwhelmed for sure.

>> Yeah, you got to take care of those things. So, you may want to go with a used motor uh from a junkyard into the truck rather than a new one.

>> Yeah, it's it um we've been to like multiple mechanics. It's one of those situations where it's a known issue with the vehicle like around the 100 thou 180,000 mile mark. Um didn't know that when we bought her, but um you know uh even even if it's a used or refurbished motor, it's still around like the lowest was like 8,000. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. But I mean yeah, you're going to have to clear those and plow through this. Thank god you're out of debt.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Well, I mean, it's saying, okay, thank God. Okay. With the same intensity that you used to get out of debt and thank God I was out of debt because if I wasn't, I'd be really screwed right now >> with all those payments going on.

>> That's Well, and the hard thing is too, I think we can kind of all live a little bit in a fantasy world that life's trajectory is just straight up and it's not. It goes up and down. You know, the trajectory is going up, but there's going to be ups and down seasons. Like we've talked to many people that they were on, you know, baby step three and almost complete and then something happens and they got to drain it and build it back up.

I mean, that that is life. But the encouraging thing is, I mean, that you guys have a plan. Number one, you know what you're doing. And just take it one bite at a time.

just do one thing at a time and and look

at the numbers of it to know, okay, if we really sacrifice and keep at it, we can put 2,000 away a month, 1,500 away a

month, and you just start building on that. And then also, you think about too your jobs, you know, getting raises like things happen too with income throughout this process. >> The good news is the other side of it, and the other side of it looks like this. When you don't have any payments, the truck is fixed and the furnace is fixed and you got $20,000 in the bank, it's going to be the weirdest thing. Here's the weirdest thing that happens.

What is defined as an emergency changes

because when you're broke, a a $30 item is an emergency.

When you're when you're doing really well and you got margin in your budget, a $1,000 item is not an emergency

because you just put it in the budget.

So, uh, and and even later on, it gets to where a $10,000 item is not an emergency as you build some wealth and you just don't end up using the emergency fund because, uh, you know, you starting to get margin in your life.

And by the way, you're moving up in a little bit better cars so they're not breaking all the freaking time and you're staying ahead of the maintenance stuff on stuff so it doesn't break on you and uh you get more life out of

things because you keep up with it, all that. So, uh, the good news, and that's I'm talking three years from now for you, Amanda. They're not today. Today, you've got another year of of really tough. Roll up your sleeves. You got a year of tough. And, uh, you're not done.

You're not done. You got to get through this. And then, but that's the only way to get through it is to get is to bust through it. And, as you said, to regain your momentum. There's not a magic thing, but when you set a clear goal and you believe it's reachable, it gives you energy. When it's a vague series of

things attacking me that I don't know how I'm going to handle, it steals your energy. So, break it down step by step.

Here's what we're going to do first. Here's what we're going to do second. Here's what we're going to do third. And we're going to crank it up again. No lifestyle, no nothing till we get this mess cleaned up.

[Music]

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[Music]

Amy's in Minnesota. Hi Amy. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I wanted to call and ask about my

company credit card. Um, my husband and I have worked really hard to pay off all of our debt and we have our emergency

fund saved and we've been also saving to

buy our first house sometime in this year. We went to our local credit union to get approved and we did get approved for a loan, but the person that we spoke with there um asked me about a $17,000

debt that was showing on my credit report and I realized it was for my company issued credit card. I'm a secretary at an accounting firm and I was given this card when I first started working here and I use it to book travel for employees, order office supplies, pay different company bills, but it never occurred to me that it would show on my personal report. So, >> is it an American Express?

>> Um, no. >> Good. Okay. Um, because theirs are going

to show on your report and they're going to try to hold you liable. So, I would go to your supervisor and tell them you need this canceled immediately.

>> Okay. >> This is ridiculous. It should not be on your report. You did you signed for to be liable for this company?

>> No. And from what I was reading, you know, we're a smaller company, so I'm like listed as an authorized user.

>> Authorized user should not is not liable for the bill.

>> Yeah. So that's why >> So it shouldn't show up on the credit bureau, but your bank is a hu. So your

your boss's bank is a hustster, so you need to get away from this.

>> Okay. I was Yeah, I wasn't sure if I was getting the right information from the credit card or from the credit union person we talked to about the loan. Um >> Well, if it shows up on your credit bureau, it's not something they've taken your social security number and put you on the account somehow.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm an authorized user. I know authorized user is not liable, >> but that doesn't should not be reported.

Sometimes they do that though.

>> And so, um, yeah, you got to be really, really careful. And so, I would just tell your boss just to, you know, to to shut it down. Shut down the account or shut your name down off the account. I don't want to be on the account at all in any way. If you want me to book your travel and stuff, you're going to have to give me your card to do it. I'm not put I'm not putting my name on it.

>> Okay. Okay. Um, well, I will do that. I

appreciate I don't want to be liable for it and I don't want it reported on my credit bureau. >> Yeah, >> I worked hard to get out of debt. Now I got a $17,000 debt that's yours on my credit report. >> That's what parents are starting to do with their kids, putting their kids as authorized user so that it builds their credit.

Y >> which is that same whole >> it's the same crap and it's not supposed to show up. >> Yeah. >> It's not legal but they do it all the time.

What is reported on your credit bureau report is what you owe.

When you're an authorized user, you don't owe anything.

>> Your name is attached >> could not be on this. >> It's just that her name's attached to an account that does owe. >> Yeah, exactly. But it's the same thing as the kids.

It's exactly why she's getting this. She's probably not liable on this account. >> They probably haven't screwed it up. But the best thing to do is just to get it out of her name completely and then you don't have to worry about it.

>> That's right. >> It's not going to show up anymore. >> God, how how crazy is that that you're like, "We're out of debt, all this." And then you go to your credit union and you're like, "I'm sorry. >> You got $17,000." >> What?

But >> y >> and he acts like she owes the money. See how that happened? >> Yeah. >> See how that looks? >> That's the purpose of a credit bureau report. But it's false.

>> Right. Right. >> You know, it's like h these companies, man.

Snakes. Kathleen is in Kansas. Hi, Kathleen. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm good. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thanks for taking my call. So, pretty straightforward question. My boyfriend and I are going to be buying a house together. And my question is, should I keep the town home that I currently own and rent it out for extra income or should I sell it, take the profit, and stick it in investments?

>> Kathleen, you're not going to like me.

You're going to ask why we're not married. >> No, I'm going to tell I'm going to tell >> maybe that too. >> Well, that might come up in a minute, but we're going to start with the idea that buying a home with someone that you're not married to is financial freaking suicide. Do not do that.

>> Okay?

>> One of you decides to leave, you can't get off the mortgage. >> There's no protection. one of you gets disabled, >> you can't get off the mortgage. If he dies and he doesn't have a will. If he dies and he doesn't have a will, you own a townhouse with his mother.

Yeah. It's a bad idea. It's a bad idea.

Okay. This is these are the people that call us later. Yes. After they do the thing you're going to do and then they call us going, "Dave, I'm so screwed.

What am I going to do now? Please don't do that." or the boyfriend leaves and doesn't and stops paying. >> He just disappears. >> And then you're on the hook for the whole thing or you're going to get foreclosed on or you know what I mean?

Like it's just it's not not good.

>> No, no, no, no. Do not do this. Now then

then and then if you were married and you did and you did buy it together, that would be okay, obviously. Uh so if you're going to do this, you got to get married. Um

uh so I'm I'm really meddling now. But the uh but then if you're going to do this, you'd have to keep debt on one or the other in order to keep the old place. And I wouldn't do that. I'd sell the old place. >> Okay? >> But don't sell the old place and buy this with your boyfriend.

>> You're going to do it anyway. She is. She >> You're going to do it anyway. You're how I stay in business.

>> You're just going to keep coming back.

She's going to do it anyway. Everyone listening knows it. Oh, bless your heart, darling. I'm so sorry. Please don't do this. Please. We love you. We don't want this for >> here, Kathleen. If it goes, >> it's not a prosperity plan. It's a poor person plan. You're going to be poor people. Don't do this. Don't do this.

Please don't do this. It's not a matter of romance. It's a matter of stupidity.

Tim is in Utah. Hey, Tim. What's up?

>> Hey Dave. Um, quick question. So, my wife and I, we're self-employed. We own a business. Um, and um, we currently own

a house in Utah that we bought in May of 2022. Long story short, our houses dropped in value like $85,000.

>> Why? >> So, the market just dropped. We bought the week before interest rates started going up and so then interest rates went up and we have in Utah

>> just south of Salt Lake.

>> Bull Salt Lake is a boom town. It's exploding in price. It's almost unbearably expensive.

>> Our whole It is. It's still expensive.

Our house was expensive, but our value the value has gone down quite a bit >> since when we since we bought.

>> I'm sorry. I don't believe you. I think you've got bad information.

>> I I Who gave you who gave you the comps?

>> Who gave you the comps?

>> Um, our real works for uh

>> your real estate agent came out and looked at the house and said the house that you bought in 21 is worth $85,000 less in Salt Lake City.

Yeah. And we have friends that just sold under contract and their house is under value. Yeah. Yep.

So here here's my question though. So we

are we don't have any other debt. Like we're pretty smart financially, but we don't like how much our mortgage is. And the other aspect is we travel to the East Coast for work six or seven times a year. Um, and so we're looking at buying a house in the East Coast by some friends and we'd be able to lower our mortgage payment about 1,200 bucks a month. >> Six or seven times a year.

>> Yeah. >> For how long at a time? How long at a time? >> Um, about a week at a time.

>> So for seven weeks? >> So six weeks out of 52.

>> That doesn't that doesn't determine your doicile.

Well, no, but if we moved to where we're

looking at, our mortgage payment would also be $1,200 a month. But you never live there? >> No, but you're moving there full-time. You're saying? >> No, no, no. We're talking about selling our house in Utah and moving >> and moving to the east coast. >> The whole year. >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> So, what's the six or seven times got to do with it?

>> Well, that's just the reason why they're moving. >> Don't likes traveling as much. >> He just they want to live on the main reason. >> So, are you working in Salt Lake City while you live on the East Coast?

We own a company and my we work remote

so we can work anywhere.

So my my question was though for us to

move to sell our house we'd owe our mortgage company a little bit and then moving costs and closing costs and everything. It would cost us probably about $40,000 which we have in the bank

to move. Um and it only save us about

$1,200 a month in payment and mortgage payment. >> It doesn't make any sense at all. So, we're trying to decide. >> No, doesn't make any sense at all. >> We're trying to decide. Should we just take that 40 grand then to put it towards our house? That's the only debt we have. >> Yeah. I would just sit there and let the thing come back in value. You got no reason to move.

You don't You don't have a reason to move. Um, you're only over there six times a year. You can get a hotel six times a year or nothing. I mean, it's nothing compared. >> So, wait till the house gets >> You're spending You're going to go $85,000 and $40,000 to move. So this

$120,000 swing you'll never recoup.

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[Music]

Salt Lake City is the 10th hottest real estate market in 2025 in the US. It's up

9% year-over-year

in prices and it is 35%

higher than the national average on median house prices. >> Okay, this is such >> just to make sure. >> Just a classic Ramsay move.

>> Just the No, I'm too I'm serious. This is >> I am too. This is exactly what happens when we debate at dinner as a family.

We're always pulling up Google to prove our point. >> Well, I mean, it wasn't like I made this up. That was my point. So, >> I know. I know. But you proved it.

>> I did. >> Proved it. >> I did. Locked that down.

>> Christiey's in Indiana. Hey, Christie.

What's up?

>> Hey.

So, my a lot's happened over the past

year with my family. Amy, my husband has been married for about 14 years and we're deciding to um move because of his

job from Indiana to DC and we're

deciding to consolidate my mother's house also and move her in with us. She

owns her house outright.

Um we still carry a mortgage, but I'm just trying to figure out how to

protect her money in this whole process

if something were to happen.

divorce, death, what may. I just have no clue how to walk into joining our

household and making that happen.

>> Why are you?

>> Um, I'm the only child that looks out

for her. So, her husband had a stroke a year ago. He's in a facility. He's he's like a three-year-old in a grown man's body. >> Um, she lived with my 92-year-old

grandma who passed away about two weeks

ago. >> Oh, I'm sorry. So there is >> there's just no one here.

>> How old is your mom?

>> Um 72.

>> Okay. So why does she need care at 72?

>> Um she just doesn't get around good.

She uses a walker. Probably could use a wheelchair at this point. Um

she was looking into a town home here and >> unlike Makes sense if you got a wheelchair in the future with a walker.

>> Yes, I know. I know. And you know there's you know there's some family close and I said if she needed help would you help her? You know right now she lives on an acre. She has a like a

seven or eight bedroom house. It's just too much. So we've been >> I don't doubt that. But I I don't What I'm trying to figure out is why she's moving in with you.

>> Cuz I have a conscience.

>> No, that's not the point. She doesn't even need you. I mean >> she's she's only 72.

But she doesn't sound like she's in great health. >> Yeah, she's not. She does need us. She does need us. >> All right. All right.

>> I guess I don't know why she panics, you know, even she had help with her

husband. And >> how many brothers and sisters do you have?

>> Um, I have one sister. My brother I have a brother also, but we haven't seen him in in >> Okay. So, how what's the house she's going to sell? what how much money is she going to put into this deal?

>> Um, probably maybe 700,000. And I have

some other cash things that were moved around, annuities and stuff. Um, we had hired prior to all of this going down, we had hired a estate lawyer when her husband had a stroke. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And they moved some of her money around so that she wouldn't lose it.

>> What would she Why would she lose it?

um applying for Medicaid. They

>> she put him in a welfare nursing home and she has $700,000.

>> Well, no, that's that's going to be what we're going to get from the house cuz she owns the house outright and that's something they said that the government wouldn't take with >> I know, but this is Medicaid. This is Medicaid is welfare.

>> She put him in a welfare nursing home.

>> Wow. And she had the money to not do that. No, we used all of our cash assets

initially and he was not in there for about a year. >> Okay. So, she's broke other than the house. >> Yes. >> Okay. Does she have any income?

>> Other than what she gets from social security now. >> Okay. What's your house going is you're talking this what's this proposed purchase going to cost?

>> Um we we actually made a offer on a

house.

um for a little over a million. >> Okay. You need to see an estate planning attorney and the house would be purchased in an LLC.

>> Mhm. >> And um she owns a portion of the LLC and

you own a portion of the LLC.

Okay. And then here's the tricky part.

You have to do a bunch of legal work to

determine what happens to her portion of

the LLC upon disability or death

or if you guys just want to sell

because otherwise you're going to get trapped and your siblings are going to be pissed and your brother will just reappear at the most inopportune moment

>> looking looking for his part of the 700k. Okay, that is called your house.

>> This is really messy.

>> It's going to be very difficult to do this well and it not end poorly.

>> That's why I was asking all these questions about her care. Okay. Um it'd

be one thing if she just moved in with you and you took care of her, but when you put her money in this house, she's now your partner. She's 72 and she's in ill health and she dies. Are is that going to force the sale of the house that you live in in order to give your sister her part of the inheritance?

>> Are you going to save the money to buy her out? >> Yeah. You got to have 350,000 or is it going to be 350,000 plus what? The house has gone up in value. So now the house is worth 2 million and your mother's share is now worth 1.4 million.

>> Mhm. >> And that means you owe your sister 700,000.

This is not going to go well if y'all aren't real careful.

She was planning on giving the whole portion to us. Her initial offer.

>> How's your sister feel about that?

>> Um, she doesn't >> want to take care help her out.

>> She doesn't want to help her out. 700 grand worth.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. This isn't going to go well.

>> Okay. You guys are, you know, you haven't thought this all the way through. And so it can be done, but

you're going to have to lay out every possible negative scenario and have in writing in the LLC documentation what's going to occur.

>> Your mother gets dementia. Your sister says that you are signing checks illegally for her. Who's got healthc care power of attorney? What happens in the event of death? At what point do you have to liquidate to pay your sister out? What does the will say about your mother's portion of the LLC? cuz she owns over 50% of the house you live in.

And that that that tail is going to wag that dog.

You following all this?

>> Yes. >> It's messy. That's why I was begging

trying to figure out a way not do it. And I and I wasn't being in compassion.

I was lacking in compassion. >> Are you married, Christy, with kids and stuff?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. So here here would be a question for me cuz this is sort of what she did.

She the house she lives in now, my grandma did the same exact thing.

>> Sold her house, built on to my mom's. Um

and they didn't have any paperwork.

>> So >> yeah, but you didn't have any you didn't have any heirs that questioned it.

Well, you know, she did just pass away two weeks ago, but they they knew that that was sort of like the the cost of taking care of my grandma and letting her live there. >> Does your mother have any siblings?

>> Yes. >> And that was your grandmother's house that just died? >> Uh, not technically, no.

>> Uh, whose name is it in?

>> My mother's. >> You sure? Yes, cuz she built it in 1974.

Okay. >> They just remodeled it. >> Well, if your mother puts all of this money in this house and this house is in your name 100%, you've duplicated that family mess. But yeah, it it'll that'll work. It'll keep your sister out of it.

But I think your sister's probably never going to speak to you again when this is over cuz you took $700,000 to care for an elderly lady for a few years. It's pretty heavy pay. A lot different than the Medicaid nursing home she put her husband in.

So, man, this is messy. Your sister's

going to be pissed. I can see it coming a mile away. I'm going to get a call from her. That's what's coming next.

Y'all got to work this through and everybody's got to talk about it and it's got to be documented and you need some legal advice that's a lot better than I could give you cuz all I can tell you is it's going to be a dead gum mess.

[Music]

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>> Today's question comes from Alexandria in Texas. I'm currently going through a divorce and recently found out that my husband has taken out credit cards in our children's name. He racked up significant amount of debt and emptied his retirement account to pay it off. He keeps telling me it's not possible to pull credit reports on our kids, but I don't believe that that's true because now he wants me to sign paperwork that absolves him from any wrongdoing regarding our kids.

No good.

Not happening. [Laughter] Your husband is scum.

Anybody that would screw his own kids over is scum. I mean, who takes out?

That's just absolutely the I mean, to

start with, identity theft is illegal.

It's criminal fraud. Okay. So, your husband is a criminal. Oh, and who'd he steal from? His children. What a jerk.

No, I am not signing any paperwork except paperwork puts him in jail.

That's that's the paperwork we're signing on him. >> So, no, go talk go talk to your lawyer, darling, >> and tell your lawyer to send him back a little note that says LOL.

You've got to be freaking kidding me.

>> You're saying oh. It's lol.

>> I know, but it's it's laugh out loud, you fool. Okay, so you've got to be kidding me. Oh >> yeah. >> And you can freeze your kids.

>> Yes, you can. You can pull kids credit reports and you can freeze them.

>> Uh we know this because we did it when Rachel was a when they first started allowing freezing. Rachel was still a minor >> and all of our children entered their adult life with a frozen credit report.

Nothing had ever been on its Nothing could get on it. >> Well, and you do it too to protect them from ID theft just in general like with their you know the internet and scam.

>> You need to freeze it. You need to freeze it because their father is scum.

>> Okay. Well, >> and that will keep him from uh if they actually check the credit before they issue the credit card. They won't issue it if it's frozen next time he tries to do this because there will be a next time. This guy is a serious con artist.

>> I'm sorry, >> man.

>> Okay, here this is Listen to the verbiage. He keeps telling me it's not possible to pull credit reports on our kids, but I don't believe that's true.

So here's let me help you with this.

Anything this guy says is not true. If

his mouth is moving, he's lying. This is a guy who would steal his own children's identity for his own personal benefit.

So the nothing that comes out of his mouth can be trusted. So the only thing that can be trusted are the actual facts and the behavior, not the verbal wishes.

So no, you can pull credit reports on your kids. You can freeze credit reports on your kids. I have done it >> and I would to make sure I mean if he says he paid it off who knows you know so I would pull those credit reports to see what the status is for your kids.

>> I would I would file a criminal on him.

I'd have the police I' I'd set him up and say hey somebody stole my kids uh stole my kid's identity. Oh, it was him.

Absolutely. And and then let him figure that one out.

>> Definitely. So cuz I don't want this guy near them again.

>> This is unbelievable.

Carlo is in Miami. Hey Carlo, what's up?

>> Hi. Hope all all you doing are well.

>> We are. How can we help? >> So, um I wanted to ask your opinion. Um

my mom in February, late February, she passed away from her 10-year cancer battle. >> I'm sorry. >> And I appreciate it. Um and in her

passing, um big family

squables with uh the scraps left behind.

Long story short, I have $110,000 sitting in my bank account. Um, my wife

and I tomorrow are going to go get a biopsy for her. They think she possibly might have cancer.

>> And her father that lives with us. His

cancer came back and we're dealing with that. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Yeah, it's been a it's a rough uh 2025, but >> yeah, >> we're we're still blessed to be here and and making decisions and trying to make things better. So >> who who I assume you and your wife have health insurance? >> Yes, sir. Yes. She works in the medical field. >> Does her father have health insurance?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. >> So, um, my biggest my biggest dilemma is

this. I've always been a saver.

>> Um, I've we're I believe I'm baby step

number five, if not six. We're we're doing rather well. We just turned 40 this year. >> Mh. and I'm trying to balance

keeping funds in the reserve for if

things go south and living life now. Um,

we had a hard time with that with my mother. You know, traveling with her at the end was very difficult, but we made it happen and we made our memories. So,

okay. Um, I'm sorry. What an amazing

amount of challenges. Um,

I would just throw that in a high yield savings account for 6 months

because in 6 months you're going to have a lot more information on these both of these situations.

Okay. >> Um, you know, how expensive a fight have we got? How long a fight have we got?

And how much are we going to look at alternative solutions that met that um

our insurance won't cover?

Okay. And that would be true in either case, but certainly true in your wife's case, right? Um, and then with her dad,

does he have money and how much is he going to, you know, above above is out

of pocket after insurance and then is he going to try or do anything other than that that is going to be expensive?

Okay. >> Well, he doesn't have much. He he lives with us. We have uh in-laws quarters.

>> Um, and he has Medicare and Medicaid. So most of and all of his treatments have been, you know, covered from that.

>> Yeah. >> It's just, you know, I want to do right by him. He's been a workhorse, much like my mother his whole life working.

>> Yeah. But I don't think that I don't think you're going to have $100,000 of medical bills with him.

>> No, no, no, no. Absolutely not. Okay.

>> Absolutely not. I But you know, I don't know what the the future holds.

>> So, you know, um I have the monies right

now in a Schwab account. I could put that in high yield savings. >> I just put it in high yield savings and just forget it's there. It's just sitting there. And then as soon as you actually can quantify these situations a

little bit >> in terms of how long is this going to how long we going to be in this fight and um what's the actual out-ofpocket

expense from these two different fights?

Then that tells you if you can invest and begin to do some other things with some of that money.

Well, >> let let's pretend let's pretend that it's a minor issue with your wife,

>> okay? And it's and it's nothing. We're

done. >> 6 months from now, it's way in the rearview mirror. The biopsy was benign.

No problems, no issue.

We're done. Okay. So, we had a we had a few hundred and deductibles or whatever, some co-pays. We're done.

>> Then you don't have to worry about this 100k for that purpose. I'm not going to leave it around for vague worries, but I'm going to leave it around for specific worries.

>> Well, one of the reasons why I've left it there in that account also is she's attempting to do a career change, which is drastically going to change her income. Um, she currently makes about $100,000 a year. And her career change

could drop us about $30,000 a year. So,

it's a pretty big shortfall that um >> Can you not live on what you make?

>> Well, in Miami, it's a little Do you not live on what you make with her career change?

>> Yes. >> If you can't, she doesn't need to do the career change.

>> Yeah. I mean, it is a luxury and she wants to do it to be home more.

>> Luxury is fine, but can you if you can't live on it, you can't do it.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz if you got to feed your household $30,000 a year, in three years this money's gone, and then you're screwed.

You got a burn rate on this, man. So, you don't create sustainability from savings.

So that's a completely different subject than you called with. But yeah, you you've got to you've got to create a budget that you guys can live on. So if you can afford to live on without touching this money, >> her career change, she can do it. If she can't if you can't, she can't do it >> or you guys change lifestyles.

>> You got to change something. Yeah. But this 100,000 is not gonna save you on that. Not even gonna come close.

So no, that won't work. But but having it set aside to make sure you turn the corner on some cancer diagnosises until you turn the corner, I'd let it sit there.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

Open phones at8255225.

Melissa's in New Jersey. Hi Melissa. How are you? >> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um so uh my husband and I have been married for 18 years. We have uh

separate accounts. I'm a teacher. Um he was a construction manager, a project manager for a long time. Now he's self he's uh got laid off from two jobs within two the past two years and now he's self-employed. um and he's building a

business on his own. Um in that process,

we had a our rental property that we

originally lived in when we first got married. We had two kids. It's a two family home. We bought it um together um

after we got married and we the down payment was an account that

my husband had. It was $50,000. His dad

died when he was around nine years old.

And the mother put all of the father's

social security checks into an account to help it grow and that's what he wanted to use that account for to put the down payment on that house. Um then we remodeled it with our wedding money.

We lived in it for about 10 years and

then we um bought a single family home but we kept it as rental. So, our joint, our only joint account was um where the

um house rental uh income was going into

when I was not working because I was a stay-at-home mom for 10 years. Um we

also had a joint bank account that was originally his and he just added me on.

>> Gotcha. What's your What's your question, honey? Um my question is is we sold our rental

property and um we he told me it was going into the

joint account and I was sitting at the Starbucks signing papers and the

$475,000 that we made on the house was going into his only account, his sole account.

>> Why did you sign the paper?

Uh because he told me that we would lose our house. We would lose everything because we have no money to live on, which we we we didn't. We would have to sell our house. >> Well, you wouldn't lose everything if he he just changed the account, put it into the joint account.

>> Well, he he didn't.

>> No, I'm just saying I wouldn't sign the papers till he did. Why didn't you say that? >> Because our dynamic uh is based on a lot

of intimidation and fear and I >> So, when is the divorce? >> Look at him. I know. Well, I trusted him

um to take care of our finances because he's very financially savvy and that's, you know, we kind of have our roles and we kind of let our each other take care of our, you know, what we our strengths are. But now he um he won't let me see

the money. He told me the money is his and his mother's money. It's not my money. He did all the remodeling on the house. >> He's confused.

>> So, I don't know what my rights. I don't know what to do. >> The only rights you have are in divorce court. Okay.

Okay. >> That's the only place you're going to get. That's the only place you're going to get a legal right.

>> You have moral and ethical rights, but he's ignoring those.

>> Yeah. >> But New Jersey will take half of that money and give it to you.

>> Yeah.

I mean, I don't know what he did with it. I have no access to anything. He has stock accounts, investment accounts.

>> No. Divorce. Divorce requires discovery.

And if he hides any of that, it's a it's it's um a criminal act, >> right? Well, he says that I am a teacher

because I I put myself through school when the >> Did you not hear me?

>> I know >> half of this is yours.

>> I know. >> Okay, then quit acting like you have to go do all this. What he says doesn't matter. >> I know. >> When the when the law tell tells him what to do, it's going to be interesting for him.

>> You're right. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's it's up to him. Does he want to Cuz >> I mean, it's a this is a marriage issue, Melissa. Obviously, >> you you guys do not have you have very little marriage left.

>> Absolutely. >> Hanging on by. >> Are you Are you um >> wanting something different? Like, what are you thinking? Do you feel >> I want I want a divorce. Um but I I'm

afraid that I'm going to have nothing.

Uh we live a very very nice life. The only way you would have nothing is if he hides it all and your attorney's so weak he lets him get away with it.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But otherwise, you're probably a million. >> Yeah. Yeah. I make um he he was when he was a project manager about two years ago, he made about almost $218,000 a year and I um right now make about

$80,000 a year. I'm a teacher.

>> Okay. But the the bills that I my bills

that I pay toward the house and whatever random needs my I have two teenagers.

Whatever they need, by the end of the day, I don't have much money to put away to save for myself. So when I

need to do, you know, you you have a job, you can pay for it. When I ask him for money, that's exactly what he says.

>> Yeah. This guy's not giving me money to

be around. Yeah.

>> So he says you should be giving me money now. you you let me tell you here's

>> when you um [Applause] >> when you're overwhelmed, what you need are is information and facts and information or facts that are coming from him are not information or facts because we know him to not be a reliable source. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> I'm not a lawyer in New Jersey, but you need one. >> Yeah. So, if you go sit down with an attorney and say, "Okay, here's what I do know. I know we had this 475. I know we had this stock account. I know we had this. >> How can I be protected in this process?" And the attorney will explain it to you what the laws are in New Jersey. You can have a consultation with an attorney, a divorce attorney, and it probably won't cost you a dime to do the consultation

>> and gather information because you're functioning in fear, not on facts.

>> And when you're in trauma, when you're in a a dramatic situation like this, your emotions are making the decisions, and they're not making good decisions because they're not based on facts. And so, if you just cut through all that and go, "Facts are my friends. Facts are my friends. The way he makes me feel is not a fact. That's a feeling.

>> The way I The fear of he may have stole all this money. I may never get any of it. I may be broke. I may be homeless.

That's not a fact. That's a fear.

>> Okay. The facts are you have a teaching job. It's really good. The facts are that New Jersey requires child support to be paid when you have teenagers. The facts are that New Jersey will require some kind of property disposition, probably around 50% each.

Those are the facts. Now, once you have those facts and you go, gosh, half this money is mine. The law says that. Now,

then you can go back and say, "Bubba, if we're going to keep this together, we're going to have to go see a marriage counselor, and everything in this house is going to change. Otherwise, we're not going to be able to keep this together." I've spoken with a divorce attorney and I have an appointment with a marriage counselor. Which one do you want me to go to?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I I'm going to do that.

Yeah. >> But you do all that from knowledge, which will make you much calmer.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because all these things are spinning out in your head and he's activating a four-year-old version of little Melissa who thinks she's going to be on the street. And you're not you're not honey.

You're going to be okay.

>> And I I I hope you don't have to go through this. I hope the guy can be woke up and you can save your marriage. That would be neat. >> But at this moment, you don't want to be married to him. I can hear it. And nobody does. Nobody wants to be married to the guy you've described for the last few minutes. So, I'm so sorry. But yeah,

go get some actual information.

And that gives you power.

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Brian's in Minnesota. Hey, Brian. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Hey, I'm doing good. How about yourself, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. So, I had a quick question for you, I guess. Uh, so I'm in a predicament. It's not necessarily a bad one. So, I am 26 years old. I bought

housebo about 5 years ago when the market was pretty cheap. Uh, I have 130,000 in savings doing nothing for me, but I only have 95,000 left on the mortgage. So, I guess my question was, what's your opinion on what I should do is if I should pay it off early with the money I have saved. Should I invest into something or just keep it in a high yield savings account?

>> Where'd you get 130,000?

>> Uh, I'm very frugal. I'm a good saver.

I've worked for every penny of it and nothing's been handed to me and yeah, it's a good saving money, I guess. So, >> you're single?

>> Uh, no. I get married actually next December. >> Oh, congratulations.

>> Does she have any debt?

>> Uh, no. She's got no debt at all. She makes 80k a year and yeah, I guess we

don't know what to do right now. >> Sounds like a match made in heaven.

>> But it's kind of kind of too good to be true. It's kind of what now? Yeah.

>> So, >> I don't want to be sitting here wasting money on but my mortgage is only 3% and at the the bank I'm getting 4% on my money. Yeah. >> So, I'm like, well, I could pay my house off and live pretty gener generously

with my wife, obviously have some kids and go from there. >> Yeah. >> So, I guess I'm kind of stuck on what I should do. >> Okay. >> Uh, if I woke up in your shoes after doing what I do for 35 years, um, I

would write a check today and pay off your house >> and I'd have no payments. Take your shoes off, walk through the backyard, you'll find the grass feels different.

>> I thought about doing it again. I just got out of Astro this past week and that was a nightmare and a half. Sounds like the biggest scam I've ever been through before. And I was like, you know, you just want me to be done with this loan?

I'll just be done. >> But each month, >> you know, I've been telling people to pay off their mortgages and situations like this for 30 years. I have never had someone call me back and say, "Gosh, I really regret doing that.

Never had somebody tell me it was a bad idea. And by the way, Brian, if you hate being debtree, you can always go get you another mortgage.

>> So, I would write a check and pay it off today, hun. >> Amen. Hallelujah. >> Yeah. Just >> Well done, Brian. >> Yeah, that's very cool. Good for you.

Rick's in Las Vegas. Hey, Rick. How are you? >> Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel. Thanks for taking my call today. Appreciate it.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> So, I have a 401k question for you. I'm just trying to plan for next year. Um, I max out my 401k every single year, not

only as an individual, but from the company contributions as well. Um, this year it was uh 23,500 for individual and

I think 46,000 from the company, so 70 grand total. My question is >> next year um I'm debating on whether I

want to frontload it all um by February.

We get a huge profit sharing check every single year and I I max it out in February. >> Mhm. Is it better to do that or is it better to spread it out throughout the year?

>> Well, the um we we have taught in our world dollar cost averaging for so long that people sometimes avoid the lump sum and so um

and that's kind of what brings your question to bear. So, um what I do is uh

I fully fund mine in the first month of the year. >> Okay? >> And the reason is this. Okay? The only reason you would spread it out throughout the year is if emotionally

you can't handle the stock market going up and down and you're going to freak out.

But I that doesn't bother me a bit because I don't even look at it. I just put it in there and I'm thinking I'm probably never going to touch it. I'm probably putting it in there for Rachel's kids cuz I'm not probably going to use that money anyway. But the uh um

and Denise and Daniel's kids, but anyway, it's not just Rachel's kids, but the uh Rachel's kids are like, "Woohoo!" Yeah, Papa Dave. Yeah. But uh anyway, the uh um yeah, so the the the point being that mathematically

um even if the market goes down right after

you put it in, by the end of the year, it will have gone up more than it went down 90% of the time. That's the history

of the stock market. Okay.

>> Okay. And so, you know, sometimes you get a bare market that lasts over 12 or 14 months, but very seldom. It's, you

know, if you go back and look at the look at the track record of the stock market, look at the S&P charts, okay?

and and you know look at how many times you know so what ends up happening is is the the entire lump sum is earning money

all year or one 12th of the lump sum is

earning money then 212th is earning money then 312th is earning money then 412th is earning money so the point is I'm making those S&P returns for 12 months while someone that's spreading it out is not getting the same dollar result that I'm getting that make sense

Yes, it does. >> So, I lump summit for that reason. But you can't do that if you can't emotionally handle two months later

Trump burps and the market goes down,

you know, or he throws a tariff on some bizarre country that we never heard of and the market goes down, you know, or whatever it is, right? And so, you don't know what's going to happen out there on the short term. And so, you can't be freaking out all the time if you're doing that. >> Yeah.

But >> you lump some of yours at first, don't you? >> Yes. And depending on age, for sure that your mindset should always be long-term, >> right? >> I mean, if you're, you know, 61 and you're looking at retiring, you know, there's something there.

Yeah. So, I mean, like it's it's there's not really a point >> unless you're 58. >> That's right.

Yeah. In my case, I can I could touch it if I wanted to because I'm 65, >> which would be I could see that having a different psychology, but but when you're when you're younger than that, you know, when you're in your 40s, >> uh 50s, 30s, all of it, you know, it's long term anyway. So, >> if you're not thinking in five year blocks of time or longer, you shouldn't be putting in a 401. >> That's right.

That's right. >> Even at my age, you need to be thinking long term.

because again, I'm probably not going to ever touch that money. Mhm. >> I've got plenty of other stuff generating income without touching that.

And so that money's probably it's all in Roth, too. So, it's all going to pass completely taxfree. It's awesome. So, uh

yeah, that another reason I won't be touching it. So, yeah, that's the thing which also kind of we can sidebar on that for a second, Rachel. It's a good teaching point. Um, and I didn't think about this when I was your age and teaching this stuff and I was your age and doing this stuff and building the wealth. But now, now that I as as I'm hitting these milestones, 65

and all that, I'm starting to understand at 72 and a half, you have if you have

traditional IAS or 401ks that have not

yet been taxed, you have required minimum distributions that are beginning. you have to begin to take it out cuz the government wants their tax money.

If it's in a Roth, it is growing taxfree

and there's no RMDs, no required minimum distributions. I have moved over the years 100% of ours into Roth and paid the taxes on those lump sums as I did that. Even the matching portion at Ramsey that where I match myself has to be it's required to be but uh traditional. >> Mhm. >> But each year I roll it to Roth.

>> Yeah. So, I don't have anything that's not Roth now at my age. So, this is really beautiful. Not only is all that growing tax-free for me, but then also I

don't have RMDs. I wouldn't I never I

couldn't spell what Yeah. What?

>> It's just a required number. >> No, no, no. What's the What's the dollar amount? >> The dollar it's a chart. It's a percentage percentage of >> more each year. Okay. Because they want to get their taxes. Yeah. They're going to require you to begin to cash out traditionals. But if it's not traditional, you're not required to take it out. And it's continuing to grow taxfree. And with the new Biden Secure

Act, the legislation that was passed under President Biden, if you do an inherited IRA and it's a traditional,

all the taxes are due within 10 years.

>> You have to cash it out over 10 years.

If it's a there's no taxes due on a Roth, >> none of that applies. So when I do leave it to you or the kids >> as a as an inherited IRA as a beneficiaries then that that there's

zero tax on it.

>> None and no required distribution. So getting that stuff moved into Roth as you get old >> if you can pay the tax if you can figure out a way to pay the taxes. It it voids all that stuff. I didn't even think about all that stuff when I was in my 30s. I was just chunking money in there like crazy. And now I look back and go, man, that Roth stuff's freaking genius.

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Seven out of 10 Americans die without a will.

Listen, if you hate your family,

make a big old pile of money, make it real complicated, and die without a will. They will fight for the next 15 years, and they'll hate each other. You will completely shut down all their productivity because they'll be screwing with your stuff. Unbelievable.

Howard Hughes, one of the richest men in America at that time, died with $2.5

billion dollars in 1976. It took almost 10 years to settle. 600 people filed a

claim.

22 of his legal cousins ended up with the money. Was split among 22 people.

The judge finally decided almost a decade later. Guess who got most of the money? The lawyers.

>> That's how that works.

>> So if you want if you want to do that, that's fine. But that's called dumb.

Okay. Get a will.

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Will month. Michelle's in North Carolina. Hi Michelle. What's up?

>> Hi guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm honored to be talking to both of you. >> You too. How can we help?

>> Um my boyfriend and I started dating in April and we're really in love and thinking about getting married this October. Um he's in about $60,000 worth

of debt and I'm out of consumer debt. I just have my mortgage. I have about a $500,000 net worth with my house and my

retirement and um my parents helped me buy my house as a gift and my dad is saying that I should get a prenup before getting married. Um especially because we haven't been dating that long. So I'm wondering what your all's thoughts would be on that.

>> I mean yes. So you I mean you you started dating and we'll get married within six months. Is that right?

>> Yeah. Just seven, but yeah.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> How old are you?

>> 34. >> Okay.

Um.

>> Wow. Well, the thing is your dad just

doesn't trust the situation.

>> Yeah, that I get. >> Yeah. And if you don't trust the situation, you should get a prenup. But if you don't trust the situation, you probably should be engaged a little longer until you trust the situation.

>> Yeah. Yeah. One thing I'm worried about is um this would be his second marriage and he has a child from his previous marriage and he's been having some custody issues there. So I'm definitely worried about what could happen with my finances and my home once we combine everything and you know if his ex-wife

for a long time you're marrying into that. >> Yeah. >> And so if he spends you know y'all if you have combined finances and you all have to spend some money on custody that's going to affect your income and your savings and your investments, right? It's not going to cause you to lose your home, >> but it is going to, you know, it's that's what you're getting with the package. >> Yeah. >> For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge.

That's the old marriage vows. Remember them? >> Mhm. >> Yeah.

So, um, okay. Our rule of thumb when I

first started, I I told nobody to no one should get prenups because you're planning your divorce and if you if you like your house more than you like him, you shouldn't get married. And that's what I used to tell everybody. Okay, I don't say that anymore. Exactly that way.

Um I have said that a couple times on weird things like one lady called up and uh her uh boyfriend, her fiance wanted a prenup because he had a uh a vintage sports car >> that was worth $100,000. And I'm like, he likes his car more than he does you. you don't need to marry him.

So, uh, but what I where I have,

um, where I am trying to keep things moving is is not it's not assuming that

you really feel a thousand% about him,

that he's okay and he's aligned on getting out of debt, staying out of debt, living like you live. You're going to live on a plan. We're going to combine our finances. we're going to make life together. Um, we're going to

make decisions together in unity. If if

he's completely trustworthy on that,

then the only reason I would do a prenup and if he's not, by the way, he's not ready to get married.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And that's up that's something you got to solve, and I'm not going to put you on the spot and ask you that here because I don't think that I don't think that's the case. I I I sense this guy's the way you're describing him is solid.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. I mean, he's got outside issues the with the child support possibly, that kind of stuff. But, um, so anyway,

uh, uh, the reason we tell people to do prenups these days is if there is an extreme difference in net worth. Okay,

he has >> negative negative net worth and you have

$10 million or $5 million. Okay, you don't. You've got $500,000.

>> So, it's not extreme, but it is enough that I get your dad. Okay, I understand him thinking that. And your dad actually gave you the money to get this started. So, I get that, too. Okay.

>> I'm not I'm not mad at your dad on this, but so yours is not extreme, but the reason we tell people to do that when it's extreme is actually not the person you're marrying. I'm not trying to protect you from them. I'm trying to protect you from his ex-wife thinks she can keep you guys in court forever because he married a girl's got some money.

>> I don't want to send her that message.

And he could just look at her and go, "I don't have any access to this. I got prenup.

and shut her little emotions down because there's or or the crazy relative of whoever that comes along and thinks, "Oh, hey, this guy hit the jackpot." And you go, "No, he's got a prenup." Um, so that kind it kind of helps the outside crazies more than the two of you. Does

that make sense? >> Yeah, it does. Yeah. >> And so I

>> It's probably It's probably a short timeline. Yeah, that's probably >> because you know if you had told me a little bit l more lengthy engagement and

you guys went through financial peace university together, you were completely aligned and you go through good strong premarriage counsel counseling. I would probably say no. Um

I'm on the bubble with yours though. I I might I might >> in yours. I'm not I wouldn't be I wouldn't think you're stupid if you did it one way or didn't do it the other. Okay. If you do it or don't do it. So, I mean, if your dad thinks you're just crazy, I would disagree with your dad.

Okay? But he he if he's just saying this is a wise suggestion, you should consider it, then I would agree with him on that. Okay? And if and also a wise

suggestion is for you to you guys to spend some time in premarriage counseling and deal with, okay, what comes up when we got a $20,000 legal bill to fight the crazy ex on the kid.

>> Mhm. >> Can you handle that emotionally? And when you guys get married, Michelle, like to the point that you're so unified that this $60,000 of debt is yours, too.

>> Yeah. You get it paid off. >> Yeah. And you guys solve it together.

>> You get it paid off immediately. >> I'm on board with >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and so if you guys can work through that kind of stuff, the length of the engagement uh becomes less stressful for me. I will tell you this, the the data tells us um and there's

lots of data on this that a six-month

engagement period and a 3 to four month

dating period prior to that marriage within 12 months of being uh within within 12 months of meeting is has a very high probability of success.

And as you short as you shorten it, statistically the probability of success goes down. And as you lengthen it dramatically, fiveyear engagements are bull crap. >> Okay? >> Pain or get off the ladder, right?

And so, you know, as you lengthen it, it doesn't make sense because the relationship gets strained for all these other reasons. Then we're just playing games. So, um, but anyway, that's the data that we have on marriage stats. And so, you're you're a little bit short on that data.

It's not a deal killer, but you know, cuz that incorporates, "Hey, I met you last weekend. Let's go to Vegas >> and we're married." You know, those don't those only make it in the movies, okay? And uh cuz they wake up from the hangover and like, "Oh, what did I do?" And >> they get an anulment like Rachel and Ross.

>> Rachel and Ros, we have a Friends reference in the movie. >> Oh, I'm so proud of you. You know that.

Yeah. >> Yeah. So, anyway, all of that all end of speech, Michelle. So, I hear what your dad's saying. you hear what your dad's saying cuz you're you're not a child. You're 34 years old.

>> Yep. >> And so this not, you know, >> I I think you solve for those concerns for you, >> not for your dad. >> And if you can get to where you're a,000% solid, if you want to not do one, I'm okay. And if you got a little itch and you want to do one, that's okay. But it's also an indication you probably need to do some more work before you go to the altar.

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Our scripture of the In Hebrews 6:19,

we have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. Serena Williams

said, "I am lucky that whatever fear I have inside me, my desire to win is

always stronger." Lori is in Florida. Hi, Lori. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. >> What's up? Um, I am going through a pretty um bad

divorce. Um, I had to cash in some of my

retirement account um back in March because my um spouse

decided to stop um supporting our

family. Um

of that money, I have about $38,000 left

from there.

We just sold a second home that we had

and I was able to get partial proceeds

from that um 70,000.

So my question is um I have credit card

debt. Um I just started working again.

I'm basically a single mom because I'm not getting any financial support from him. And um >> how many children do you have?

>> We have one together.

um >> with you >> and yes >> and how old?

>> 10. >> And how has your lawyer got gotten away let them get away with no financial support?

>> Um he has lost his job. He had a very good

career and he made some really bad um

decisions and to the point where he may lose a license um may not may not have a

career. >> Okay. So, he doesn't have an income. That's why you don't have child support. It's not because he's just being arbitrary. Not because the divorce is tough. He he lost his job.

>> He did. And he had also he also cashed out all of our kids kids um college

funds, retirement accounts that he had.

And he's basically being non um he's not

being forthcoming with his financials.

>> Is your is your attorney riding riding him? >> I mean, you're slapping him around, pulling him up before the judge and exposing all this, right?

>> Yes. Um, the thing is I just came into

this lump sum of money fairly recently

and I need to pay my attorney basically what I owe him. >> Yeah. What do you owe your attorney?

>> 20,000. >> Okay. >> Out of the 70. That leaves you 50 and then you got 36 left from the other.

>> Yes. >> And you got taxes and penalties. You got taxes and penalties on that retirement account you cashed out.

>> Yes, sir. >> Coming up next year. This was in 25 you did that or 24? did 25.

>> All right. And you cashed out 50 grand.

>> And so you're going to have a $5,000 penalty plus your taxes on that are about another 20 grand. You're about a $25,000 tax bill.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Just just being prepared for next April. Okay. Mentally, that's what we got to do. And are you working? Obviously, you are. You said you're a single mom. What do you make?

>> Um I have been out of the workforce. I'm a nurse. Um, I've been out of the workforce for um, several years and I just went back to work in uh, in May.

>> Good. >> And >> what do you make?

>> Um, after taxes about 4,200 a month.

>> And you're a nurse?

>> I am. >> Okay. All right. You're not getting a lot of hours, are you?

Um, it's u I've had to if I went and

worked night shift I could get differentials that then I have child care >> Yeah. >> issues. >> Yeah, I got you. >> I'm I'm relying on >> family and and friends right now for child care because he can't be >> he's not involved. >> I understand. Can't be with what's going on. He's obviously got some bad stuff going on. Yeah. Okay. >> He does. >> Um All right. And so your question was what? Let me let me get back to that.

>> What do I I owe my if I give my to speed

this divorce up, I'd pay my attorney

20,000.

>> Mhm. >> And um then I potentially will get the rest

of the proceeds that were from the

vacation home sale.

>> Yeah. >> Now our mayors to offset the fact that he hit all the other stuff. Yeah.

>> Yeah. The marital home um is currently

um being sold as well. So now I'm in the

process of looking for a place to to go to live with my >> with my daughter. >> Are there proceeds from that too?

>> There will be there's significant over it'll be >> you're asking are you asking whether to pay your attorney the 20k? Yes is the answer. >> Okay. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Here's Listen. As long as this drags out, you cannot create your future

cuz you're living in your past.

>> Yes, sir. >> And it it's painful as hell. I mean, this is a hard it's hard to listen to you. It's awful. I'm so sorry for you.

>> And uh it's not only heartbreaking, it's ang it makes you angry and disgusted all at the same time. And all those emotions swirling around. It's hard to do anything. >> So, and and and I've just been talking to you 3 minutes and I'm already feeling all of it. So, I mean, it's like I I can't imagine being in your head. So, bless your heart. I'm so sorry.

>> So, yeah, I I want to get this in the rearview mirror as fast as I can cuz it sounds like this guy needs to go away and I need clarity about what I've got to deal what cards I have in my hand to deal with my future.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Get the houses sold, get the money in the bank, build up the career, get an apartment, get settled, and then let's talk about rebuilding and going from here. Uh but the first thing we got to do is create a sustainable safe situation where we've got housing, where we've got a sustainable income and we have uh figured out what we have net net with a $25,000 tax bill coming up in the fall in the spring. And so, um yeah, um

I'm I'm paying him and getting all this in the rearview mirror as fast as I can.

And then I've got a friend that does divorce recovery work and uh she taught me years and years and years ago that divorce turns a business or turns a marriage into a business transaction. So this just becomes a column now of assets and liabilities of income and you just

it's just a math thing now because all all this emotion and all this um betrayal and all this misbehavior are

just the drama and the sidebar. But the the actual story is you and the 10-year-old moving forward with a pocket full of money and you're a nurse and you can go make a great living being a nurse and you're going to have a great life from here. But you just need, you know, to not have to burn all the calories dealing with this crap all the time, right?

>> Yes, sir. He's just wasted away like millions of dollars. It's >> Oh, I can't imagine. Can't imagine. I'm sure. >> Yeah. And hopefully you can get the proceeds from the vacation house, the family house, and everything to offset all the crap that he's, you know, that he's stolen from this discussion

>> and uh get it all set back up. And yeah, when you can get that and get this in the rearview mirror, it'll make all the difference in the world. >> Yeah. Clearing these debts at least with all these proceeds will clear you up financially and mentally.

Just there's a lot going on right now. Let's simplify as much as we can. >> Yeah. So main thing is get the attorney paid.

keep get that going. And then let's quantify. You know, I got $25,000 tax bill coming up. I need to hold that money aside.

And then I need to look at what else I need to clean up, get me an apartment, get an income that we can live on, and then from there, we'll build the career. From there, we'll build a life >> out of this. And that's where you're going from here. Man, that's just painful.

It helps to just put it all down in writing. Put it on a note and just go, "Here's all the things that I have, all the debts I need to pay off. Here's all the money I have coming in." And it just helps clear it from your mind to see it on paper. And doing a budget will also help you. I'll gift you um every dollar, Lori, to help you just put all this on paper. I'm making 4200 a month. Where should every single dollar be going?

That's one less thing you got to think about once you see it on on there, right there on the app, wherever you go. >> And I don't want you to rent something nice. I want you to rent something cheap cuz it's temporary. You're not going to be there long. You might be there one year maybe. So I This is not the Taj

Mahal. The 10-year-old's life is not going to be better because of the rental

property you get. So just keep it cheap because you need the margin. I want you to have lots of margin where you're not touching any of this this pile of money at all for living. If you can set yourself up where you live on the 4200, that's a sustainable beginning and you go from there. So, wow. So, I'm sorry, kiddo. It's real painful. I ap I'm sorry you're going through that. It's awful.

Not fair. And uh some people's misbehavior. Wow. That puts us the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Heat.

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## 102. Live from Charlotte: The Ramsey Show on Tour | May 5, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:33:38 |

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How much should I expect my boyfriend to

be paying on an engagement ring?

>> I'm a little irritated. >> Why, Ken Coleman?

>> Hannah, relax. >> Single people, stand up for a second.

You two stay up. If you want to go out, Ramsay Solutions will pay for your first date.

I feel like he makes purchases that from my perspective are excessive. What set

expenses? >> Cologne.

>> He gets it. >> Yeah. >> If I wanted to get her to say a luxury handbag. >> What kind of bag? What kind of price?

>> 3 to 4,000. >> Ooh. Yikes. Y'all are bringing the fast balls tonight. >> How can I manage burnout and help my partner understand why becoming debtree matters so much to me? >> Why does he hate me? >> He thinks it's a cult. There we go.

>> I don't want this to be a point of tension for you guys. I want you to feel validated in your decisions.

>> Normal is broken. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network, brought to you by the Fair Winds Credit Union. Live from Charlotte, North

Carolina, this is the Ramsy Show.

Yes.

>> WOW. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, alongside my esteemed colleagues, George Campbell and the lovely Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman, and we're so thrilled to be with you here in the Queen City, Charlotte. And

we're going to have some fun tonight. This is the Rayzy show, but it's live.

So, we're taking your questions tonight.

And I got good news and bad news. The good news is there's no dump button. We can't hang up on you. But, George, tell them the bad news. >> Bad news is it's your personal brand on the line. So, just know we can't stop you from being you. >> That's exactly right. So, so fun. So, as you can see, we got our mic back here and we're going to start it off with Christopher. Christopher, come on down.

Give Christopher some love.

There we go.

>> Where are you from? >> Hey guys, uh Greenville, South Carolina.

>> Nice. >> So, my question is, my wife and I are in baby steps four, five, and six, and I would like to get her something to quote cousin Eddie. Really nice. And I'm

wondering if I wanted to get her, say, a luxury handbag, uh, for instance, does that fit in? And steps four, five, and six, obviously pay cash, but I I just want to get y'all's thoughts, judgments on that. >> No judgment here, pal. That's called good husband.

>> You know which one she wants.

>> You have on her mind. >> Yes. >> There's a range. Can >> you tell us for fun? >> She here. >> No. Okay. >> I mean, she knows I'm here, but >> Well, so >> I I just didn't want to ruin the surprise. I >> Oh. >> So, so what what are you talking about?

What kind of bag? What kind of price?

>> Uh 3 to 4,000.

>> It's a nice bag. >> What kind What is it? Uh, it's a Louis Louis Vuitton bag. >> I got to tell you, nothing makes a woman happier than a Louis. >> Oh, good. Good to hear.

>> I I speak from experience. Uh, I

surprised Stacy. I walked her by the Louis store one day and I was just kind of himing and hawing. I go, "Let's just go in here and look." And she did the whole, "We're not going to get a bag." I go, "I know, but let's just go look." And I got her the bag.

>> Nice. Nice.

>> All right, let's All right, George, you're nerding out here. I can feel you right now. What are your What are your numbers? George wants to run through the numbers. >> Do you have the money?

>> Yes. >> Okay. You have That's outside of an emergency fund, obviously. And is this a large part of your world or net worth?

>> Uh, it it would not be. No, sir.

>> You could burn three grand on the table and you'd be like, "All right, that stinks, but I'm going to be just fine." >> It would stink, but we would be okay.

>> I mean, that's that's about as far as I need to go to give you the green light.

>> Okay, >> get the bag. >> Rachel, what do you think?

What do I think? >> You're a bad girl. >> Christopher Christopher, what do you think? I think >> uh send it, buy it, get it, >> do it.

>> Oh, for sure. For sure. And she'll have it for a long time and it's going to be wonderful. >> Okay.

>> Cuz you you guys have worked hard. I mean, honestly, a lot of people when they get to baby steps four through six, it's really hard for them to spend money.

Like, that is fun. And so some people again may roll their eyes at a at a bag or they may roll their eyes at what you spend on a vacation or they'll roll their eyes at whatever it may be. The one of the things I roll my eyes at if I'm being honest is like kid birthday parties like 2-year-olds where it looks like a wedding reception. I roll my eyes but it's not a values.

It's not a right or wrong, right? If you have the money for it. Some people will not understand why you would ever buy a bag that expensive.

And that's great. It's not a moral issue. You have the money. Do it. Louie.

>> Cool. Thank you guys. >> Love it. Yes. >> I would say this, like do it in your way, but like don't just show up with it. Put a little effort into it. You know what I mean? Whatever that is. >> Rachel's got an idea.

>> Yes. Yes. Okay.

>> I love planning a surprise. I'm going to see where this goes >> because a designer bag that nice, it's going to have beautiful packaging. Okay.

So, your your the bag is going to be huge. And then the box that it comes in is going to be fantastic. And then it comes in another s it comes in a whole cloth. Let her o let her don't just take it out of all that and give it to her.

She needs to do the whole experience if it's a gift. Like let her open it. Open that box. Oh, it's just it's like an Apple product on steroids.

>> Can I guess and this? >> It's not a iPhone. It's a Louis.

>> Can I Yes. And this cuz I think that's great. Everything she said I'm going to add one thing. Is there something like um very household functional, a little bit bigger? Maybe it's uh maybe it's something an antique or something she's been looking at or something that would be like in a large nondescript bag or box that maybe she wants that you guys have been talking about. We need to get like a a fridge for the garage or you

you know what I'm saying? Do you you see where I'm going? >> Yes, sir. >> All right. So, the idea is it's a misdirection.

>> I like that. and you do everything that that Rachel said except that it's like let's say you were talking about a garage freezer just because I got to give you something tactical. And so you're like, "Babe, you're not going to believe this. I went to the scratch and dent and I found a garage freezer for $70." And she goes, "Oh, get it." You're like, "I'm bringing it.

You got to look at this thing. It's unbelievable." She's like, "I don't need to open." I said, "Babe, you got to check this freezer out. It's unbelievable." She opens what she thinks is a freezer box and it's a Louis box.

>> Misdirection makes the surprise better.

>> I have a tactical question. How are you going to spend that money without her knowing?

>> So, we've talked about it and it's it's more of like a I mean, because we do the finances are combined, so she would know. So, it's more of a >> hey, don't look at it this week, I guess. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Does she check the savings? Is she like a very much aware of what's in savings on a constant basis?

>> Yes, but she's more of a weekly checker.

She doesn't obsess over it.

>> Perfect. So, she doesn't get an alert, right? >> No. >> Okay. Here's my point. You don't You just get it and write home.

>> Well, I had an idea and I pitched my idea. You got a Fair Winds credit union account yet? >> I don't. >> Okay. Here's my idea. >> Nice product placement, George.

>> Just open the open the smart bundle.

Here it is, though. We open the smart bundle, transfer the money there, and use that Ramsay debit card to purchase it. And then hopefully she doesn't even know the savings move temporarily.

>> Wow. Open a secret account.

>> Big brain thinking.

>> I like my approach better.

>> Mine gets you massive hugs and kisses.

And >> hey, babe, don't look at the account. Yeah, it works. >> No, no, he doesn't have to say look at the account cuz she's not going to look at it that day. So, go buy it. He goes straight to Louis. He's already got the fridge box and the whole thing planned.

It's all seamless. She didn't even know what hit her. >> Just let us know how it goes.

>> People want to know. >> Hey, listen to me. I know how to do this. >> Do it that way. Hey, give me some love.

Great question, guys. >> Way to go.

>> All right. Next up is Hannah. Where is Hannah? Give Hannah as she gets down to the mic. Where's Hannah? >> Oh, she's coming from the front. Yeah.

Make your way up. Everyone give Hannah around Hannah.

>> Good job, Hannah.

>> Hannah, where are you from?

>> I'm from Raleigh, North Carolina.

Fantastic. Thanks for coming. What's your question? >> My question is, how much should I expect

my boyfriend to be paying on an engagement ring?

>> Ooh yikes. Y'all are bringing the fast balls tonight. >> My boyfriend is here, so you can be generous. >> Is this him right here? >> OH MY GOODNESS.

>> I think we need him on the mic, too, don't you? >> Yeah, >> I'll do it. I'll do it. I'm a man of the people. I'm going to come down here.

>> Well, I don't know if you wanted to join her up there. Do you want to go with her? I think you should go up there. Yeah. >> Yes. >> This is fantastic. >> This is what we need.

>> Okay. Hannah. Hannah on the mic real quick. Did he know you were going to do this?

>> Uh, I did. Yeah. >> Oh, so you're willingly participating.

>> Hey, you got a nice watch there. >> Communicate so well. >> Didn't expect to be on the mic, but I was willing for her to ask the question.

>> Okay. >> I got to know what kind of watch you're wearing there. >> Uh, it's a t-ot.

>> What's that cost? >> Uh, it was about a grand. Oh, okay. Just give me a good baseline. Just give me a good baseline. >> And are you are you aware that she's expecting a ring? I hope.

>> Uh, yeah, we've definitely discussed it.

>> Okay. And, uh, have you been planning for this financially? >> Uh, yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Are you willing to tell us right here and now how much you've been planning to spend?

>> Uh, or would you like to keep that private? >> Oh, yeah. >> I've been told kind of like two to three month salary. >> Who told you? Who told you that?

>> Uh, parents. >> Every kiss begins with K. >> No. >> Okay. Just just friends and parents I would say >> to beers. Yeah. Well, that's a lot of marketing. I know two to three months.

>> That's a lot. >> Yeah. What do you uh what do you >> I think that's average. That is what they say. >> What do you I'm in tech sales.

>> Oh, you're going to get a nice ring, sweetheart.

>> Yeah. Well, uh do you have any debt?

>> Uh no, debtree. >> He has a family friend who works for Diamonds Direct as well. >> So, you're getting debtree and Diamonds Direct connection. >> Okay. And have you I have a sister.

>> She's teeing it up. >> Yes, she has. Have you two talked about a price? >> You have. >> Uh >> I bet not. >> She's talked about the size of the ring that she wants.

>> So Hannah, are you aware of what said size costs?

>> Nope.

>> Let's be honest. Do you really think he would give you a ring that you'd be disappointed with? >> No. >> I think it's a mood point then. >> All right. Well, I want to dig a little more. This is too juicy. Uh, what is your name, sir? >> Uh, Jeff. >> Jeff. Uh, have you >> are adorable, by the way. >> I'm rooting for this couple already. They're >> fantastic. You guys are a handsome couple. Uh, have you went and looked at

the size ring that she wants and priced it? >> Uh, we've went and looked, but I haven't really priced it now. >> I think you should price it. >> Yeah. >> And then George, after he prices it, we don't know what we're dealing with, and we're trying to keep a little bit of mystery here. Although Hannah has put this poor boy on the spot.

>> Yeah. It's a little too late. I mean, he has to put a ring on my gun. I would price it. I would price it. And I don't know, George, if I like that two to three months salary business, that feels artificial. >> That's a very >> Well, like we got a call on the Ramsay show. This guy wanted to spend $80,000 on a ring. So, there is a level where it's like out of control.

>> Um, >> okay, back to our values thing, y'all. If he made 15 million a year, who I mean, you know what I'm saying? That's why the salary of what you make per month is a good gauge of it.

>> My heart says a month make 15 million.

Trust me, it says a month a month salary is plenty. >> Yeah. >> Um well, here's I think we may have varying opinions. I'll vote and say I think you need to go price it and price it multiple times. Talk to your buddy.

Say here's the situation. Hannah's amazing. This is what she wants. This is what I feel comfortable with. Cuz I think you know in your mind what a comfortable number is, don't you? You're a responsible young man. >> I would say so. Yeah. >> All right. I would if you can't get her what she wants, you get her something close and we have a fine conversation about it. And Hannah, you want to marry this man, do you not?

>> Yes. >> All right. Are you going to be happy with what beautiful ring he gets you?

>> Yes. >> All right.

>> Then that's right. Right now. NO.

>> NO. >> NO. You got to wait, Hannah. Let this man come up with a plan.

>> The simplest answer is how much should you spend, how much you can afford at the time you want to propose. >> Y >> that's it. And then you and then factor in depending on your situation if you guys have to pay for the wedding, the honeymoon, do you want a down payment on a house? I mean, you know, like the at the money at that point all is put into a big bowl and saying how do we want to divvy this up?

And you guys need to talk about that to say what are our values? What are our goals? >> What's the priority? >> Yeah.

What's the priority? >> I got to tell you, I'm a little irritated. >> Why, Ken Coleman? >> I think there needs to be more mystery among this young generation.

Why are we even talking about this? >> Well, you're the one that told him to go up to the mic. because she asked THE QUESTION IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY. I don't want you two talking about this.

Hannah, relax. >> I'm with Rachel. Like, I think you need to put it all in a bucket and then divy it out. And I would much rather be on a beautiful diamond than maybe a >> wedding venue or a dress or other things.

We'll see. Okay.

>> All right. All I'm saying, I'm having fun. I'm I'm truly not irritated, but I'm slightly irritated because I do think there needs to be mystery. And I think the young man should get a little information from you and then you just need to go about your life and let him come up with a plan. Let him buy a nice ring. We got too much planning going on.

Where's the romance? >> How old are you guys? How old are you?

>> Uh I'm 26.

>> Yeah. 27. >> Yeah. Okay. >> What does that have to do with me? >> Because they're hardworking, late 20s. They know what they want in life. So they can have grown-up conversations of where we want our money to go as a couple. >> I didn't say that. I want the mystery around the engagement. The way the engagement happens can be the mystery.

>> That's the mystery. But to decide of how much what I'm talking about, >> but how much money we want to spend on a ring that can be talked about. Okay. I'm okay with that. As long as you pay cash, that's my thing. And in 2 years, it's you're going to be fine. You know what I mean? >> Or Hannah, you may be slightly disappointed with the size. I don't know. But then in 10 years, you can upgrade a ring. Or in 20 years, right?

Like it doesn't it's great. So, it's fine. But I do like the month. I like basing it on what you make per year. I like that. I like that model. Blame it on K's, but I don't like it.

>> Who's with me like to see a little more mystery?

>> Trying to rally everyone to get on his side. Now, leave the poor couple alone.

This is going out to the YouTube millions. I want I want a good message out there amongst the crowd. That's loud and clear. Hey, you guys are fun sports.

I'm having a little bit of fun, but kind of serious. Give him a big big hand.

>> Congratulations, you guys. Good job.

>> Wow, that was fun. Little We We need a little dissension up here every once in a while so we cover it from every angle.

>> Yeah, I don't think any of us agreed on exactly what to do there, but I think we got there. >> I think we got there. It was lovely. >> We left them confused and in love.

>> That's it. >> That's it. >> As it should be. >> Okay, our next question is Nora. Where is Nora? Give her some love as she gets to the mic. There she is. >> Nora.

Hi, Nora. >> Hello. >> Where are you from? >> Raleigh, North Carolina. >> Nice. >> I'm a nurse feeling burnt out from working so much overtime even though I'm trying to stay focused on paying my remaining 76,000 student loans. I've already paid 83,000, but I'm exhausted.

How can I manage burnout, stay motivated, and help my partner understand why becoming debtree matters so much to me? >> Wow, good for you. First of all, this is a nurse who's working absolutely herself to the bone to get out of debt. Let's give her some money to grow. That's great.

>> So, what what's your expected payoff date? If you continue at the pace you're on right now, when would you be debtree?

>> December of next year.

>> Okay. And how much have you paid off so far? >> 83,000.

Is there tension with your partner relationally because you're always working? Is that why you brought this up? Like how do I help my partner? Give me more on that deal.

>> What don't they understand? >> Yeah, >> I pay obviously a lot towards my student loans. Like my whole check goes towards it and he doesn't understand why not just pay the minimum and just save the rest. >> Have you walked him through the why behind the baby steps?

Blame it on Ramsay and all of us. Oh, you rolled your eyes. That's not good. What happened there?

>> Be honest. >> He thinks it's a cult.

>> There we go.

>> You know, it's interesting. I've never heard that before.

>> Yeah. Well, I get it. Um,

and it's not our fault. It's the way you people act.

No, I'm kidding. That's terrible. I'm kidding. Uh, okay.

Well, you're not married, so he doesn't get a vote. You know, we we teach separate finances. So, that's that's a relational issue. And I think as you continue to get free, hopefully he begins to catch a vision for it.

I think the the thing that you have to do, and I want them to weigh in, I would just quickly say, um, I love the payoff date. I love the goal. I love the gazelle intensity, but you have to listen to your heart and you have to listen to your mind and you have to listen to your body.

intense person who's not worthy of the baby steps and you're not working if you have to dial it back a little bit. You know what I mean? Like it it is it is not about the length of time that we preach. It is about the intentionality that we preach.

And I we've done so many debtree screams where people have taken six and seven years. So, I think if you're starting to get to a place of physical and emotional and maybe spiritual and relationship exhaustion, dial it back a little bit, you know, until you can get back up on your feet. I I'm curious to know what you all think. >> Yeah.

Well, it's amazing what two months would do if you're like, "Okay, I'm not going to work extra for two months and give myself breathing room and then press play again, right?" and you're kind of this off and on if that's helpful or when you get to a certain dollar amount of debt payoff to say okay once I reach this once I reach 50,000 left I'm going to take a breather and I'm going to not work extra for 30 days 60 days and that's okay and then you press play again right because there's a level of a marathon you know we always say the average person pays off their consumer debt in 12 to 18 months is what we have found in all of our research but again that that plugs in people that pay off their consumer debt in eight years and that's people that just find us randomly and they have the money to pay off their debt and they're done within 30 minutes, right?

So, that span is really big. So, the people on the more marathon side to Ken's point, it's okay to take a to take a step back and just have a breather and still continue on your plan, but if you kind of put some of those rest periods in for you, for some people, they're like, "Oh gosh, I need a nice dinner out." And that's like a relief. Whatever that looks like for you to have that.

see that and be on board, but I want you to feel validated in your decisions. And so I don't want this to be a point of tension for you guys because you feel like you are working your butt off and no one sees you in it, right? When you have when you have a relationship and you have a a man in your life that could look at you and be cheering you on. So that's more of my problem.

I'd wish value-wise he lined up with you, but more of how he treats you in the process, I hope, is great.

>> I mean, you guys nailed it. The one thing I would do is just calculate and go, okay, I'm going to pay it off April of 28 instead of December of 27. If I

slow this down, and I think that'll help you realize, okay, it's an extra few months until I'm debtree, we're still going to celebrate you just as hard no matter what when you come do your debtree scream. So, I think release whatever pressure you've put on yourself to hit the self-imposed deadline. And that's coming from a guy who's probably the nerdiest and most intense. So, you're doing amazing. Keep it up. Way to go, Nora. Good job. >> Well done. Well done.

>> All right, so uh this is fun. We've got a write in question, and this came in from Dwayne. This is Dwayne's question.

At what point in our lives after 65

years of age, do we become self-insured?

Okay, so let's cover what they're talking about here for those that aren't aware or those watching at home. When we talk about term life insurance, it's to replace your income if something were to happen to you. for those that rely on your income. So that's a spouse, kids.

So what we talk about is getting 15 or 20 years in a term life policy so that after those 20 years are done, you've been following the baby steps, you've paid off your house, you've been investing for two decades, you have enough in your nest egg and savings where you're self-insured. Meaning the policy could end and you have enough to cover your family if something were to happen. So that's the simplest answer.

At what point in your lives are you selfinsured? when you could drop the policy and if you were to croak today, god forbid, your family would be just fine living off of your retirement accounts and savings.

>> All right, I love it. And so Xander, by the way, great place for people to go.

We had a young guy in the pre-show was asking about he's 34 years of age.

>> Yeah. He's saying, "I'm single. Do I need >> I'm single? Do I need insurance?" So, >> and I told him, "Go get a quote online because you'll find it's much cheaper when you're young and healthy and a lot of you know that as you get older and there's health conditions, it becomes more difficult and more expensive." And so this is something really affordable, especially compared to a trash insurance we call whole life, permanent life insurance.

Term life is a fraction of the cost. You want to aim for 10 to 12 times your annual income. And then your spouse, aim for 10 to 12 times their income. And if they're a stay-at-home spouse, you need at least a half million policy cuz you got to hire Mary Poppins to replace everything they do.

>> Yes. I would say even more for stay at home spouses. We say half a million, but depending on the age of your kids. Yeah, that's the baseline.

>> And your household expenses. >> That's right. Absolutely. So, and Xander is great because they go and shop multiple companies.

You're not just looking at one. And so, that's the one Winston and I use, but it's great because they price it out. You get to see the prices of everything. You get to pick it and it's it's wonderful.

So, it is so inexpensive. It's some of the saddest calls that we get on Ramsey show if someone has passed away, a spouse has and they call in and that spouse, you know, even if it was a stay-at-home parent, stay at home mom and she has to go back into the workforce because they they have nothing and she the kids and it's just it's just heartbreaking. So, >> and some people have it through their they have it through their employer and they go, "Well, I don't need it on my own." And I go, "How much is through your employer?" They go, "50,000." They go, "Well, that'll cover them for a year if they're lucky." You need 10 to 12 times your income, but it needs to be outside of your employer cuz your employment can change.

So, Xander.com is the place to go. >> That's with a Z for all of you and been around over 99 years. We've been with them for 30 years at Ramsey. Fantastic people.

Tell them we sent you. They'll take great care of you.

What does financial success look like for you? >> Not paying attention to the price of things. >> You look at the steak first, price second. Maybe I'll skip the appetizer and cocktail. Just stick to the ribeye.

>> Skip the appetizer. >> You've got enough saved for retirement.

You've got an emergency fund. Yeah.

Short short-term focus, but also having like the long-term vision of you don't want to run out of it and you want to be able to not work for the rest of your life. having peace of mind, having a retirement fund that will allow me and my family to have some fun at the end of the day and to kind of pass on generational wealth. >> No debt except for maybe the only debt I think you should probably carry is uh your mortgage. >> Are you there? >> Yes. >> How long you been consumer debtree?

>> 20 years. >> Yeah. >> To be able to have free time, not based

on my effort. >> So without you doing anything?

>> Yes. Free time. >> You you got all the time in the world. >> Yes. having enough to feed myself at the

end of the month. >> So, just satiated. So, low expectations.

That's the key to financial success.

>> Expectations on the floor. Yeah.

>> Wow. Okay. How about you?

>> You have to pretend that money isn't real. It's pretty impossible to live by yourself, but I think that success to me is being able to live on your own.

>> Being able to travel when you want and uh you know, being able to raise a family. I think those are two things that I value right now. the freedom to take a day off and not have to worry about, you know, do I have enough PTO?

Do I have enough saved up that I don't need to worry about anything? Can I go get my nails done? Can I have breakfast? That kind of thing. >> So, live your life. Take the day off and I go, I I can't miss that paycheck.

>> Yes. >> I want to know how many single people are. >> OH, THAT'S FUN. WHOA.

>> SHUT UP. OKAY. OKAY. NOW, I didn't expect this. Single people, stand up for a second. >> OH, BY THE WAY. Oh my goodness.

>> They're looking around. >> Look around. >> What is happening here? Hold. Well, I didn't say sit down.

>> Right here. Do you two know each other?

>> Just met tonight. Can I ask you a question, sir?

>> How old are you?

>> Yeah, it was a very clear question.

>> 58. You look fantastic, by the way.

Ma'am, I would never normally do this, but how old are you?

>> 56.

That's serendipitous. >> What else would you all like to ask?

>> What baby step are you on?

>> Got you got to >> You know what? The rest of you can sit down. Everybody else sit down. You two stay up. This is exciting.

>> Oh boy. >> All right. Are you a baby steps millionaire? >> Just hang with us. Are you're in baby steps seven?

You're in seven? OH MY GOSH.

>> Here's what that means. They don't need each other's money. >> They don't need each OTHER JUST GOING BIGGER. >> THIS IS WHAT WE CALL an even playing ground. >> How would you I'm just This is getting the next level. This is exciting. How would you describe your personality? Be brief.

>> Fun and energetic and Yeah. Easygoing.

Okay. >> Excuse me. How would you describe your personality? >> Type a boring seduc.

>> Yes. Yes. >> I like that. I like that.

>> Are you Are you okay if I do just a couple more fun prying questions?

>> Uh, how long have you been single?

>> Quite a while.

How long have you been single? >> About 20 years. >> Oh my gosh. Okay, here's what I'm going to do. I'll stop because I'm getting I've been married 28 years. So, I'm feeling something here and I need to obey it. If you guys want to go out,

if you want to, I'm not even going to make you say anything more, but if you guys, you know, talk amongst yourselves during the show, if you want to go out,

Ramsay Solutions will pay for your first date.

>> Love it.

>> All right, you can be seated. This is great. >> Well done.

>> Yeah. Okay, so uh you all are asking us

questions throughout the night and we love that. But we thought it would be fun. We were talking with the team.

We're talking amongst ourselves. We thought, what if we flip the script a little bit and we ask you all some questions? So this is like, you know, we're going to see what you all think about some stuff. You guys up for that?

>> Okay. Now, this is for the brave people, right? We're looking for the big personalities who are willing to share some stuff with us. Okay. Uh, so >> and you'll just yell it out from your seat. That way you go up my mic.

>> And so we're going to have to be patient with each other as you yell out. So >> raise your hand. We'll call on you. >> So we're going to start with a fun one.

What's the dumbest thing you have ever

done with money? Who wants to share a dumb thing right here? All right. So sir, stand up and project. No, no, no, no, no. Stay there. You're not coming up here. We have security. You'll get tased. >> Just >> No. Just you're going to yell out to approach. >> All right. Go ahead. Snapple.

>> Snap tools. >> Snap-on tools. I thought he said Snapple. Like >> so did I. I was like that's a rather refreshing beverage. >> Like how much money did you blow on Snapple? >> Soapon. >> What what what was dumb about Snap-On?

>> Uh start now. Obviously I had no tools starting out when I was 16. And my from 16 to now I had probably $50,000 in

debt. >> How old are you now? >> 22. So, 16 to 22, you dropped 50 grand

on these Snap-On tools, and you're you're still in debt. >> Uh, I'm close to being paid off.

>> Nice. >> Close to being paid off. Love to hear that. Thank you, sir, for sharing your dumb, but you're about to pay the tools off. And are you making good money with said tools? >> Uh, yeah. >> How much? >> I'm 31 an hour right now.

>> $31 an hour. >> It's like 64 grand or so.

>> Some $1,000.

>> And what do you do?

>> Diesel mechanic. Diesel missile mechanic. Are you single?

>> Girlfriend. >> Girlfriend. >> Oh, there she is. >> Taken, ladies. >> He's taken. >> All right. Okay. Thank you, sir. That's good. >> Who else has got a Do we want another one of those? We got several. One. We got one up front. >> I was debtree and then last year I went into $22,000 worth of debt for ex-boyfriend because

>> Yeah. Just dumb >> for an ex-boyfriend. >> Houses that he was trying to >> We need a story. >> This feels like a mic situation. Oh, go to the mic. >> This requires This requires followup right here, ma'am. He's coming to you.

We're We're going to We'll figure it out. >> I'll bring it to you. >> Such service. Do you all mind passing the mic? >> Okay.

So, so let me set this up. She was debtree >> and then she gets with a deadbeat guy.

>> I probably got emotional like three times since being here cuz I'm just thinking about how like I don't know talking to a therapist or like I made a mistake. It was expensive one. You move forward. But long story short, debtree boyfriend last year had a really good job making like 15,000 a month and lost

my job. Um, and it was because of our

relationship and took out $22,000 worth of debt to help him. I mean, I remember the first thing was like he needed me to buy a refrigerator for one of his homes.

Like >> one of his homes plural, >> but he was too broke to afford >> three of them. in because I said he has

a real bad addiction problem and >> and I was just trying to help him. Well, not help him with the thing, but help him through the addiction because he made so much money. He would make like >> 14 20,000 a week and just spend it between like drugs, gambling.

>> Oh my gosh, I'm so sad. >> I'm glad you're not with him. >> Yeah. So I got so much. Yeah, it's over.

And I'm just like, >> are you working to pay off the debt or you do you still have >> I So because so I worked at the casino.

Um I hadn't worked in 6 months and I still been knocking out debt and stuff like that. And um so hopefully I just talked to my old managers and hopefully for the summer the kids um when the kids get out of school I go back. That's my goal just to get back on track. But >> girl, we're cheering you on. >> Can I tell you something? >> Yeah. You've done it before. How much debt did you pay off the first time?

>> I paid off uh 20,000. So, >> okay. So, what's 2,000 more? You got this. >> It's just like you >> got guilt and shame and the baggage of it. >> Disappoint. Yeah. Because I'm like, wow.

I was just right there and just ready to just >> It's okay. >> And I was making a I I think like decent amount of money and I loved my job. And so, it's just like, >> hey, listen. No more shame tonight.

>> So, >> hey, look at me. No more shame. No more

shame. You're a good person >> who loved a guy and you got sucked into a tough situation and you've learned from it. You paid off 22 of 20 before

you can pay off the 22. Everybody in this room is completely behind you. Are you guys behind her?

>> Yeah. >> You got this. Good job.

>> All right. Do we have another fun question? George, do you have a a flip the script question? >> Yeah.

I want uh there's some there's some crazy people out here. So, here's what I want to know. What is the craziest thing you've done to pay off debt? the thing that you would tell someone and they're like, "I'm sorry.

You did what now?" >> Now, keep it family friendly. We're a family show. We got to be able to air this on YouTube. >> Yeah.

>> But I want to know what's something you did that other people would kind of had a have a head tilt at. Anyone sell a horse?

>> Yeah. It could be what you sold, what you did lifestylewise, maybe side hustle, side hustle, something sacrifice. >> Raise your hand right back here, sir. We have a >> stand up and just stand up and >> stand up and give us real loud like big old voice. uh took care of somebody else's horses before and after work.

>> Yeah. >> Let's go. >> So, you were a horse babysitter?

>> That's amazing. All right. That's okay.

That's pretty good. Anybody Any crazy like wacky stories of getting out of debt? You did something to pay off debt. >> There was a girl we talked to and she would do all of her she would blow dry her hair in her apartment hallway so she'd have to pay for utilities. >> Plug it into the hallway.

>> Like things like that. Anything crazy.

>> Making your own soaps.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I got one. We need a little We need to introduce a little more tension into this room.

>> Oh boy. >> Give us a argument that you had about money with your spouse or your partner.

Anybody got the What's the last argument you had over money?

>> Look at everybody clamming up. Anybody

>> right here? We got one. Oh, I like I see that hand. Sir, >> is the spouse here? >> Yeah. Hold on. We're getting the mic. I feel I got a feeling. Are you guys together? Are you guys together there?

>> What was the argument?

combining finances >> and >> did you want to or not to, sir?

>> I'm wanting to. Uh >> oh. >> Wanting? Oh, >> present tense. Sounds like the argument hasn't been settled. Or maybe it has been settled.

>> But ma'am, >> go ahead. >> Stands to be corrected. >> Ma'am, what's the story?

>> Ma'am, I see you.

>> You know we can see you, right? She thinks that the post is hiding her.

I'm going to step out here. Go ahead.

Put the mic over there. >> She said no.

>> No to the mic. >> Yeah, >> that is your right, ma'am. Thank you very much. All right.

>> Well, sir, based on that response,

I don't like your situation.

You're going to have to keep casting vision. Okay. So, let's bring this back.

We get this call a lot on the show and we're having a little fun with you, ma'am. You're a great sport. But this is a real tension. We get the call all the time. Let's talk about the dynamic.

what's going on? We don't need to know their situation, but we kind of know what's going on. This is a big deal.

George, Rachel, why what's happening here? >> I found there's several reasons for it.

And usually the person who wants to combine hasn't done a good enough job asking questions to dig into those reasons for them to feel seen and heard to go, "Oh, I actually understand why you feel that way. the way you grew up, it was scarcity or there was trauma or there was a divorce and my parent or friend wasn't safe because they had combined finances and it put them in a precarious situation. The more you can ask questions and dig, the more you can get to some empathy and understanding.

And then they need to be asking you about why are you wanting to combine finances? What is the upside here? And there there's a give and take there. It's a dance and it usually takes people a while to get there.

It's not a single conversation. And I think what's hard too is when people hear combine finances, they're thinking just the numbers, the tactical side of we're going to combine accounts and do a budget together and that's it. And they miss the real benefit of it. Like when you really do when you combine finances, you are combining on so much of your life.

yielding with this person that I've chosen to spend my life with and I'm going to choose to do this part of my life that kind of feels vulnerable. Especially if you get married later, which I understand that you're used to paying bills the way you know the way you pay them. You do your budget the way you do it. I mean, it's just you are you have your thing and then this other person comes in and it's so different.

It's so hard. You're like, gosh, it would just be easier if we just were still on two separate tracks and I still love you and it's fine. But what you miss is that connection point that happens from a vulnerable standpoint to say, "No, I really am combining every part of me in this this place that feels so scary. I'm actually going to say, yeah, we are going to become one." And it's amazing to me how many especially debtree couples we get and they say constantly how their marriage is better.

They're like you you know you saved our marriage and we're thinking we didn't teach a marriage class right like this wasn't what we were talking about. We're talking about money but money is a very very vulnerable place and it's a very revealing place in our lives. Like even when you look through scripture you know what the Bible says about it. Like it it's it speaks so much to who you are as a person.

>> Tactically, it's a wealth multiplier when you combine finances and you're going to the same direction instead of going, "Well, that's her money and I don't know what she's got going on. That's her business." Well, that's where a lot of this financial infidelity happens versus the transparency which causes you to feel more connected which causes you to build trust which is the foundation of a relationship. And so I would encourage anyone to try it unless you have good reason not to and we've had those calls.

>> Addiction is seriously addiction. Keep it separate. >> If there Yes, there are some big red flags in a relationship that it is not safe for you to and we totally understand that. Uh but for the other run-of-the-mill couples, yeah, do it.

I'm reminded about how much fun it is to be in the room with people when we're in the show and in the studio in Nashville.

We don't get to see and this is so much fun. I just want to take a quick moment.

We can't do the Ramsay Show live tour without our friends at Fairwinds Credit Union. They're so awesome. Such a great partner for the Ramsey Show. So, I just want to say thanks to whatever nameless executive gave us the green light for this. We're very thankful for that. So, give them some love. Love Fairwinds.

They're awesome organization. Up next, Roxan and Luke are coming to the mic.

There they are.

>> So, hi folks. How are you?

>> We're doing great. We're from Concord, North Carolina, just north of here.

>> The home of NASCAR. >> That's right. >> I know these things. Rachel, did you know that? >> I did not. Ken, >> thank you. You know what else she didn't know? That Charlotte's the queen city. I had to tell her that, too.

>> Ken is like our old man

was with us. >> Okay. He always on the Ramsey show he's

like from the Motor City Detroit we've got Allan calling from the big apple

Jason's he loves it. So he's like the Queen City. >> I do I do love a good I love a little uh historical reference. >> We're going off. All right. We are here for you. >> Back to our friends from Concord. What's your question? >> All right. So this is my 18-year-old son Luke. He'll be graduating high school in just about six weeks. >> All right, Luke.

And my question is, as a parent, how do you steward your growing children well

without micromanaging their disposable income? And just a tiny bit of context, we are huge Ramsay fans. Um, Luke has been working since he was 14. And our rule from paycheck one was you save 50%,

you can spend 40% and you give 10%. So

he has a lot of disposable income. And I feel like he makes purchases that from my perspective are excessive and yet I

don't want to micromanage him as his mom. >> Yeah. Well, you kind of sort of answered your question in that last statement.

Uh you are a mature, successful adult who happens to be his mom. He is an 18-year-old boy with God bless you, your

frontal lobe is still developing.

>> Yeah. >> And he appreciates that. So, I I think that from my perspective is the part where you're going to have to release a little bit. Now, I I'm going to tell you how I I've got three. I've got a 20-year-old in college in Chicago who literally can't keep money in his account longer than 17 seconds.

And then I've got a middle son who has

three grand in his account and won't spend it on anything.

>> Uh and then I have a daughter who's 17 who's just like the 20-year-old. So, one

of the things that I've had to just as a dad to learn is I can teach, I can show

and model, and then I can console when

they're broke.

And and so my my oldest and my youngest

I and and this is not my wife's natural

path. She wants to do what you're doing.

How can I help control and do all this kind of stuff? And it's really wonderful. But I have found that my 20-year-old is beginning to learn the value of money because of the allocated money he gets versus his job, his part-time job. And when he's broke and he calls me, I just go, "Man, that stinks, buddy.

>> Good point." >> And now it's kind of a joke. And at first it made him mad. Now he kind of gets it. And now the calls aren't even coming in. And uh he is finding a way.

And uh so I think in some ways you've

done a wonderful job and you got to let that young man figure it out. And I think the best teacher in life is failure.

>> Luke, I'm curious. What said expenses,

purchases are you buying that your mom would say is excessive?

>> Like an iPad or a cologne,

>> headphones? Depends.

>> Anything. Is that within the 40% that's kind of allocated here? Step up to the mic. >> Can you get closer to the mic, Luke? >> Yeah, that's in the 40%. Yes.

>> Mom, what do you want him to do with the instead of the iPad and the cologne?

Those don't seem outrageous to me.

>> No, the the iPad,

>> he gets it. >> Yeah, >> Ken loves a cologne. >> I like to smell good. I'm not going to lie to you. >> Yeah. Well, it's like I would not spend as much on perfume or cologne as as he

did. and it brought him great joy. But I was thinking, "Oh, that's a lot of money." And certain we had different upbringings. I grew up with very, very little and I've done pretty well for him. I I think the deeper concern I have is I don't want him to be purchasing those items to impress others. And what

I sometimes hear, and he's such a great kid, is, "Hey, I just got this clone and here's how much it costs." as he's talking to his friends. And I'm like, if you love it and you want it, then purchase it, but not for the praise or

the affirmation from others. And I think that's very fair because that is a that is a contentment loop that only though

can be broken by you, Luke.

>> I mean, honestly, it that's something that can't be learned up here. That's something that's going to have to happen. So, I'm a spender like you, so I

feel you. So a question I ask myself a

lot is before I make this purchase I

think if nobody sees this purchase do I

still want it?

So the idea of how much of my motivation is for others or for affirmation, whatever the thing is, but if nobody was to see it, how much of this is just for me, because back to our point of like rolling the eyes of like the kids' birthday party or whatever it may be, right? People are going to value different things and people are going to say, "Oh my gosh, I would never spend X on a car. I would never spend X on per like and that's it's not immoral, but that's people what they value." And that's not necessarily wrong.

But if there is a belief that this thing is going to make me happy or what I get from it, if I impress someone with the price tag, right, with that example she just used, yeah, you'll be a rat in a wheel for the rest of your life running and getting nowhere. And if the newness of stuff is what funds your happiness, again, there will be deep discontentment for the rest of your life and you'll be chasing the wrong thing and the finish line keeps moving. You think if I just could have this, I can get that or if it moves this way, you know, I got to I got to catch up to this.

So that's something though that I think is learned through life experience. I hate to say it, but I think that's a spiritual exercise more than anything.

if you actually invested some of this money, what that turns into is is pretty

astronomical. And I know you're already saving a lot, Luke, which is great. >> Yeah. Where are you saving exactly? All right. Is it in a savings account?

>> Savings account. Yeah. >> Okay. >> What is your what's your uh your end game here? Are you wanting to to build wealth and have some autonomy and freedom as a young man?

>> Yes, absolutely. >> And do you see investing as a path to get there? >> Yes, absolutely. >> Well, let's crunch the numbers for you here. You're a young man, 18. You got all the time in the world on your side.

And you have time to fail. You got time to make the mistakes. But if you just went, "Hey, you know what? What if I instead of buying that next doodad, I instead put that in a Roth IRA cuz you're earning income." >> Have you done that before? >> I have not. No. >> All right. I'm going to show you using our investment calculator. >> Can we do his real numbers? >> I'm going to use your real number if you're willing to give it to me. >> Like savings or what?

>> Yeah. So, you have nothing in retirement now and no investment accounts. How much can you put away a month into investing?

>> I don't I don't know the exact number on that. >> Can you put 500 bucks away?

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> That seemed like a low number to you. You were like, "Absolutely. That's nothing." >> Well, hold on a second. Hold up. Mom is kind of going um I'm not sure. Well, well, what I would say is the the big purchase that will be coming soon is a car, and we're going to do 50/50. And we've talked about it won't be a brand new car. And there's, you know, there's reason because he he has $15,000 saved.

>> Wow. >> He's not. Yes.

>> Yeah. >> But he's not getting he's not getting a $30,000 car to start. So, I think he

would need to I I think probably about $200 to $300 a month would be good because it would be coming from his disposable income because he's also going to be going to college. >> Yeah. He's got short-term goals, too.

So, George, split the difference. 250.

>> We're going to go 250 from age 18 to age, let's say, 60. All right. That's like an early retirement for most of America. 18 to 60, you put 250 bucks away into a Roth IRA and make that on auto to where you never saw the money.

It left your account when that paycheck hit. you don't have time to spend it.

Here's what you'd have almost $2 million

in that one account at 60 if you just did that. That's if you never got a raise, never put in more than that. And that's tax-free withdrawals if it's in a Roth side cuz you used after tax income to invest it. So that's like take-home pay. Think about it that way. >> Yeah, >> that's a pretty good life at 60 without

really doing much. You sort of had it on auto and 250 bucks for you is a drop in the bucket with your with the money you're already making at 18. >> Mhm. Think about how good you're going to smell then. >> Oh yeah, >> you can have your own cologne company by then. >> Yeah, >> just rub money all over your face. >> I think you got to you got to think about the opportunity cost a little bit.

Again, you're 18. I spent every one of my paychecks at 18. So, he's doing astronomically well. So, I think it's less about his spending issues.

Yes, we need to dig into the motive and contentment, but I think mom, there's some control issues. There's some scarcity stuff that you might need to unpack, too. So, I think there's work on both of your parts to sort of get to the consensus that he's fine. He's doing better than most adults in America.

I'm much less worried about him. >> And mom, you have done a great job with this young man. Give them >> Absolutely. You guys are awesome.

Great job.

Up next, we've got Bailey. Let's welcome Bailey to the mic.

>> Hi, Bailey. >> Hi. >> Where you from? >> Charlotte. >> Charlotte. All right. What's your question? Um, my question is, do you think it's good to invest in real estate now or should I wait until it goes down further?

>> Till it goes down further?

>> Yeah. Like if like price like if the market goes down further. >> What What uh evidence are you seeing that that's going to happen?

>> Um, I'm not I'm just wondering your opinion. >> Yeah. No, no, I'm not Yeah, I'm not trying to hang you up on that. I just wanted to know if like you were reading something or what you're sourcing to feel that way. I don't think that that's going to happen. You know, you might have some bubbles in certain areas, but by and large, how old are you?

>> Um, I'm like student age.

>> Great. >> Yeah, >> that's a range. >> I love that. >> You should run for Congress with that answer.

>> I'll vote for you.

>> Somewhere between seven and 22.

>> I'm I'm student age. Okay.

>> George, what do you thought? Rachel, what do you think? Real estate. Your husband is Mr. Real Estate.

>> Yeah. I want to know from you. Where have you heard this that you think, "Oh, this this is a really good plan and I need to do this." >> My parents and some of my teachers in school. >> Interesting. >> Are you college or high school?

>> Um, high school. >> High school. Okay, great. Good for you.

>> So, where's the urgency coming from for you to own real estate?

>> Um, no. I'm just trying to like I'm just curious about the topic and I'm trying to plan ahead. >> Okay. I love that. So, really some learning. Okay. So, we always say to invest in real estate when you're on baby step seven, which means you are completely debtree, including your primary residence, completely debtree.

You're you're investing into retirement, 401ks, Roth IAS. You're being smart about retirement from that perspective, 15%. And then above that, you can be

investing more in baby step seven. And some people choose to invest more in the market. They'll have like a brokerage account or a index fund or a mutual fund that they'll put their money in. Some people put their money in real estate.

And so the key about real estate investing specifically, so there's the flip side and then there's the buy and hold. And the buy and hold strategy is that you want to buy low. So you'd find a short sale or a foreclosure, put some cash in it, all with cash. So we are all cash at this point. And then you hold it. And you hold it for 20 plus years.

And then when your kids are graduating high school and going to college, you got to fund college. That's when some people cash out. they take that equity, fund their life, do what they want with it, or they keep it generationally, whatever that looks like. And then there's the flip side.

And the flip side is again, you buy something really inexpensive, uh, that's really inexpensive, and you put some cash into it, fix it up, sell it for a little bit more. That's a little bit more of a job, I would say. That's more of a part-time job people have versus the holding and the the hold strategy, if you will. So, there's kind of two ways to do it, but that would be after Yes.

I would say after you're out of if you're going to college or trade school, after all that's paid for, after uh you have a primary home for yourself and that's paid off and all of it. But it is a great strategy. It is later in the steps for us, but >> it's a great >> Please ignore all the social media trends that are like you need to own 19 properties by the time you're 25 and here's why and here's a course to sell you on it. Avoid all of that noise out there >> and the noise that it's just passive income.

You don't have to do anything. It's not a big deal. You just do it and then you get money. No, you don't.

deal with people. You deal with renters.

You deal with contract. You are in it.

It's not just passive. And honestly, you

don't make as much as quick as you would sometimes even in the market. The real estate market and the stock market sometimes are at odds with each other.

So sometimes you can make as much just investing and not doing anything versus

putting all your effort into real estate. But I come from a real estate family. My husband loves it. My dad loves it. So, I am I love I do love real estate, but sometimes it could just be easier just to invest to be honest.

That's what George loves. George loves >> I have no plans on owning investment property. No, thank you. I can't be a landlord. Look at me. Who's going to take me seriously? >> Well, you're certainly not going to be able to kick anybody out of their house.

>> They could take me in a fight, but it's a great question. I love your thinking about this stuff. >> Well done. The future's bright. Thank you.

Our next question is brought to you by our friends at Y Refi. If any of you out there are watching uh on YouTube and listening uh if you've lost control of your private student loan payments, your financial progress is stalled out. We get it. But this is where Y refi comes in. We love our partnership with them because they help borrowers explore refinancing options with payments built around their real life situations. Learn more at yrefi.com/ramsey.

George, how do we spell it? >> That's the letter Y. R E FY.com/

Ramsey. >> May not be available in all states. How about that? George Camel, everybody, ladies and gentle. >> Yeah. Well, there it is. They don't even want to clap for you. They're so used to you doing it. >> They're impressed that I can spell a fiveletter word. >> Yeah. Cheap applause. Cheap applause.

Uh, up next, our next question is brought to you by Yi. Where's Megan?

Let's welcome Megan to the mic.

>> There we go.

>> Hi, Megan. Hey, >> where are you from? >> I'm from Shelby, North Carolina.

>> Shelby, North Carolina. What's your question? >> So, I have an opportunity to pay off $30,000 in debt by working two jobs

for like 10 to 12 months and I can get

it all paid off. But I am a single mother of two boys.

So, I'm trying to weigh if it's worth it to pay it off in that short of a span of time or if I should try to spread it

out. >> What is your concern? Is it the boys and being with them? >> Yes. >> How old are they? >> 8 and 11. >> Who would watch them when you're working and hustling? >> My mama. >> Your mama? >> Yes. >> So, they would be in tremendous care.

Yes or no? >> Yes. >> Extra grandma time? >> Yes.

>> They're They're not concerned with it, but I'm cons I'm I'm concerned that they

won't express that it's bothering them that I'm not around.

>> Yeah. Have you explained to them that you're in a journey to pay off debt?

Have you had that conversation? Obviously, in context with an 8-year-old and 11-y old. >> Yes, I have. But I don't really think they understand the gravity of it.

>> Yeah. Well, if you're not around as much, they might start to pay attention to it. >> Yes. >> I'm going to say it's your call.

But if it were me, I think there's an awesome story in it. And I think if those eight-year-old boy, that eight-year-old boy and 11-y old boy see mama working so hard and they begin to see that mom is tired. Mama, why are you working so hard for you?

>> I'm explaining what I'm doing. And it may not all completely stick, but I think that that intense timeline will take you to another level as a single mom cuz you're a hero. And I say go for it. The boys are going to be fine. They don't appreciate time like you do. And I do think your mama heart is going to be the hardest part of it. and being bone tired. But I I'd vote for do it for the

story. You know what I mean? It's like

the ch the things that we press through and the things that that uh shape us are

the things that are really hard. And but I think you're I think whatever you decide to do, you know, I'm in favor of.

That's my that's my thought. What do you all think, Rachel? What do you think? >> I mean, I would say number one, you Ken said it, but you're incredible. any single parents that do this, it's that is unbelievable what you do day in and day out. So, hear us say that it is such a feat to raise kids and at those ages.

Those are exactly I have kids the exact ages >> and it's just so I'm exhausted. You know what I mean? And and to do it day in and day out by yourself. You're incredible.

Absolutely incredible. So, they're seeing that. Yes. Give a round of applause. Honestly, it's

>> I I think there's a much higher chance the story they tell when they're older is my mom worked her tail off for our family and not my mom wasn't around when we were kids. >> Yeah. And I would say it's going to affect you. You already said it. You said it yourself. It's going to affect you more than it affects them. I mean, honestly, I and I I mean, my my dad,

which I know is a different situation, but I mean, he he was gone a lot. I

mean, up until I was probably middle school, building and doing and teaching and traveling and working. I mean, it was it was constant. And I remember to a point that he sat us all down because he was going on a on a book tour for the first book. And I remember he sat us down and it was this big family meeting

and it was so heavy and he was like, I'm going to be gone and I think it was uh like close to 45 days to do a big book tour. And I'll be honest, I remember thinking, okay,

like, okay. Uh, so it's not that they don't care about you, but genuinely, I think if they're with someone that they love, um, it's going to just it's going to be harder. It's going to be hardest on you. So, I think, um, if you can get through it, I would for 10 months. If you were saying 10 years, I'd be like, "No, for 10 months, I think you can do anything." And and forever, ever. Amen.

The weight of debt, those chain, it's gone. the chains, it's gone completely and you have changed your family tree.

When we talk about changing your family tree, that's it. They're not only watching it, but they're going to experience a freedom from their mom that you're about to give them. And it's it's going to it's going to completely affect their life. And I think there's something about that intensity and you just knock it out in 10 months. I I would say do it. But I also say with as a mom, you make the best call for you.

Yeah. >> In that. >> Okay. >> Megan, we got a fun little award for you. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, you come on down. I'm going to tell the audience what we're giving you. We're giving you the rice and beans award right here. It's real.

This is a a glass Tupperware. Real rice,

real beans. Haven't been cooked yet. So, you just you just give those to the boys and you explain what you're doing.

It's your favorite.

>> Rice and beans. >> Rice and beans is my favorite.

>> You were made for this. I had no idea.

Hey, just a single mama bear who's crushing it. Let her know how we feel about her. Let's go.

>> Yeah.

How about that? >> That's so good.

>> Who knew that the rice and beans award was going to go to her? And she >> I wish I had something better. Something more bougie for you, girl. >> Well, now I wish I had cooked them.

>> I know. So, she would have to cook them.

>> I didn't cook them.

>> So fun. Okay, next uh next question is

from Raquel. Raquel, where are you? Come

on down. Oh, right over here. Give her some love while she gets to the mic.

>> I got to say the ladies are leading the charge tonight. >> Where are the men?

>> Where are the men asking questions? By the way, another reminder. Are there any couples that need this esteemed panel of judges to get in the middle of something? >> Go see Katie. She's waiting. Raquel. Hi.

>> Hi. >> How are you? >> I'm good. Thank you. Where you from?

>> So, me and my fiance are recently engaged and we just moved up from West Palm Beach, Florida here to Charlotte.

>> Okay. Fantastic. What's your question?

So my question is um in this new journey that we have together, moving together, being engaged um the conversation of finances have definitely come up. Um so

we grew up drastically different. Um opposites definitely attract and um my relationship with money just in regards to what my family is like is

very drastic than what his family is like and what he's used to and was exposed to. And I think that a lot of people that I talk to in my day-to-day life have the same type of um reservations when it comes to money in that talk in general. So I guess my question is layered. Um what would you say would be something that we can actively do to align our thoughts about money and what would you um give as in

advice to new couples trying to start their life together? >> Okay. So, let me ask what's how did he grow up? Paint me a picture of him and then you so we can kind of see what we're working with. >> Yes. So, um my family um I come from an

immigrant household. I grew up in Florida. Um and you know, my mom was

very good with money with what she had.

She was very good with budgeting. But on the other side, I had a grandma and a family on my dad's side who made a lot of money but did not do well managing it. So, I had really opposite sides of the spectrum when it came to how they handled their finances. Um, and a lot of misguidance. I'm not going to lie. Um,

his family, however, they grew up in um, Columbus, Georgia. Um, a stay-at-home mom with a hardworking dad. And um he

from what I understand um their family um saved a lot of money, always had something in the emergency fund, budgeted really hard, but still gave themselves like those little luxuries of like Thanksgiving vacation and and things like that. So, but they were always financially conscious if >> Okay. So, what's the tension point then?

What what do you feel like is is that point of tension? >> Yeah. Um there's no tension per se. It's just it's just like a mindset thing for me. Like I I guess I had more

>> scarcity, would you say, for you? >> Yes. Yes, that's exactly what it is. Yes. >> More scarcity. He's more abundance.

>> You're more probably No, I I don't want to say stress. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you're you're very aware. Know what's going on. And he's like, "It's going to be okay. We're fine." >> No. >> Okay. So, okay. So, tell me. So, give me give me more. >> He has a scarcity mindset. And that's

exactly so because of the way that I grew up, I guess. I don't really know like what's a good point like how much

is too much frugality and and how much is like too much overspending. So I'm still in my personal finance journey trying to figure out what a happy medium is. >> So you're kind of an agnostic and then he you're just kind of like I'm not sure about this whole money thing and he's just like tight. So tight he squeaks.

>> Yes. He's he it's very different our our

dynamic. Like I um I want to give ourselves a little luxuries in life, but he would definitely squeal over the $2 Chipotle guac.

>> Oh yeah. Yeah. Guac. That's >> Boy, I feel like we got to bring the tightest person I know in the conversation, George Campbell.

>> Welcome to the party, my man. >> This guy won't pay two bucks for anything. >> I just think it's a ripoff. I'd rather go make guacamole at home at that time.

>> You That was a flex. You just wanted everybody to know that you know how to make guac. >> I don't, but I could if I wanted to.

>> So, okay. So, speak speak to her from

his perspective cuz you get that.

>> Yeah. My wife to this day is like, "Hey, man. Can we not do this frugal game right now to save a buck?" But it's just it's a I find it enjoyable for me. So, I

don't bring her into it. It's, you know, none of her business. She's saving money. She should be happy. But, I do think there's a there's a level of this is their personality style and that part won't change. And then there's an alignment on the values and goals and that's the part you guys need to focus on not the minutia of hey he wants to be

frugal in this area. Now the more it affects you and the more it's detached from the reality of your financial situation. If you guys are multi-millionaires and he's like we can't afford this that's a different situation than hey I'd rather not spend money on that. That's not a priority for me but you can get the guac.

>> That's where I'm going. Okay, that's where we need to get to as you guys step into marriage is being aligned with the values and the goals and over time you will be doing better financially. So right now he may have good reason to have a scarcity mindset because he doesn't have his family's money. >> Right.

>> Right. He's starting a new chapter for on his own. >> Here's what I'm feeling. I just want to throw this in there.

>> Yeah. >> Because you love him >> because you guys are going to do life together. I think it'd be great to lean into him a little bit for a while.

>> Yeah. >> And kind of go, okay, and then the the easiest way, and George, I want you to weigh in and Rachel, too, but I'm sitting here listening going, I think it would be great if you really got serious about budgeting >> because the more clear and disciplined your budget is, if you want the $2 guac, and he goes because of how he's wired in

the environment that he grew up in, which is all real and totally okay.

>> Yes. >> Then you have a budget. you can remind him, hey, >> it's totally in there. Am I right? Let's

>> say yes, absolutely. Cuz I think there's the the highle tactical which may just take care of itself, honestly. So, since you guys are engaged, I would open up a checking account together, and I would put some money in for the wedding, some expenses coming up, and you guys start to practice. What does this feel like >> to start doing money together? And do a mock budget of both of your salaries.

You know what you make, and you guys are going to So, be like, "Hey, let's just for fun, let's make a household budget.

what this is going to look like. Here's mine. Here's yours. And like play a game, bring them both together and be like, how close are we at with this?

Um because that's going to say that's going to from a high level honestly may actually eliminate some of this when you guys are working together on a plan and you're being very specific about where the income's going. So that's big. And then number two, I would say because opposites attract and I know this in my marriage, Ken, same same with you and Whitney.

>> So, you're both a gift. You both bring something to the table that the other person needs. >> So, I always say with Winston, if it weren't for Winston, we'd I would probably be broke >> because he is he's so big on the saving and and Excel sheets. But honestly, I look at that now as a wife and I'm so thankful.

>> Exactly. >> I bring the fun. That's what I'm saying. You know what I mean? I bring the fun. And so I feel like we're a lot alike. Um >> as a token of friendship to my new friend over here, I have an award for him if >> I have an award for her. >> This is perfect. Oh my goodness. Okay. Ladies first. Go ahead, Rachel.

>> Okay. I'm going to give you my award as you're a free spirit. You're like me.

>> A thank you.

>> Yes. Yes, it is. >> I'm going to give you a little a little bottle of champs.

>> A little champagne bottle. And we're going to give it to both her for both of them. So George, you get one of the same one for >> All right. I have for your fiance the

frugal camel award.

>> I got this from Goodwill. So she know I didn't even spend full price on this.

>> So give this to him tonight >> as a reminder that it's okay to be a little bit uh you know resourceful with your money. >> As I say, I like how you uh glammed

cheap up. I just I wanted the people to know. >> I I appreciate that. >> I wouldn't have bought that on my own valition. >> I know you would not have Oh, he would have never paid for that. >> Good money for that. >> He would have a tried to barter for it and then ask Ramsay Solutions to pay for it. That's how that went down.

>> Thank you again. >> Yeah, you're awesome. Give her some love. That's for sharing. >> Congrats. >> Now, >> I think we have a couple, Ken, by the way. >> Well, I'm excited. But before we go to our next question, I one of my favorite things in a live audience is I like to scan the crowd. just get a feel what's happening. And I noticed that our single

friend next to you, sir, has left her seat. >> Oh.

>> Oh, she's up to ask a question.

>> Rachel's helping me out. I thought, what did you do?

>> Did you like swing an arm around and it got uncomfortable? >> I mean, I practically set the table for you. So, okay, things are good. THERE SHE IS. IT'S GRACE, OUR SINGLE FRIEND FROM THE FRONT ROW. GRACE,

>> thank you guys for coming to Charlotte to come to us so that we can ask the questions. >> You're such a good sport by the way.

>> Oh, thank you. Um, my question is how to

let the gazelle rest. I started this

journey back in 2016 on when Dave was here for a smart money tour. I was one of the volunteers and that's when I got

got really sucked into the cult. I drank Kool-Aid. So I was gazelle gazelle intense for about five to six years.

Finally got out of debt. So I I got to

zero. I was not in the negative anymore.

I finally got to zero. I switched careers and cash flowed a electrical degree. And then now that I am working in having so much fun with what I do as my career, the gazelle is is still running. I I do not

spend money and I look for coupons. If I go to a 7-Eleven and the soda pop is $19, I won't pay for it cuz I won't pay more than 99 cent.

I It's too I've gone too far that way.

>> Wish I had an extra frugal camel for you back here.

One question too late. Uh so let me dig

on that. So let's just for everybody know what what's your future look like financially? Your your retirement, you're all set. You look beautiful.

Don't have anything to worry about. Is that correct? >> Yes, I'm retired military. Okay.

>> So, that's always there. >> By the way, thank you for your service. You're a great

>> And then I have uh I'm back to work cuz I just love it so much. But it all goes 100% goes into the um 401k, 457b, HSA,

IRA. >> What are you worried about? What are you worried about from your past financially

that that that worries you? Cuz I think at the source of this is fear.

>> It is. >> I know. What is it? What are you afraid that's going to happen? Be as specific as you can. And there's zero judgment on what you're about to say. Just let it rip. What are you afraid of?

>> That I will end up as my mother.

>> Oh, there it is. Describe how your mom

ended up.

>> We grew up on a farm, you know, three channels, no cable. Um, so we thought we were very poor. Um but then in the 80s and 90s the advent of housing developments um we kind of realized that we weren't poor. Mom just liked to sew. She liked to cook from scratch. Uh but after my

mom and dad divorced, she didn't have a lot of money. Uh but she didn't aspire to a lot either. She was very simple woman. But when she got cancer,

you don't want to send anybody to a facility that takes Medicaid.

Um, so I moved in with her to be her caregiver.

>> So you don't want to end up as a financial burden to somebody.

>> Exactly. I don't want to end up like that. >> What would have to be true based on your

financial situation right now? What would have to happen for you to be a financial burden in your old age?

What would have to happen >> for me to be a financial burden?

>> You're not right now. You're not going to be. So, I'm saying, what would have to happen for you to have no money to

take care of yourself and someone else?

What would you have to do? >> I'd have to crypto.

>> Yeah.

What are the And and and sure that's

great. And what else? What else would you have to do? >> Gamble. >> Gamble. I like that. >> Have to deplete all of your investment accounts completely.

>> Yeah, you'd have to do that, right?

>> That's what would >> It's not a trick question. I'm I'm I'm painting you into a corner to see that

it's a 0% chance of you squandering what

you have saved. True or false?

>> True. >> So, you're free. >> There's a much higher chance when you pass you will have millions and millions

sitting there >> that you can't take with you. >> That's the goal.

>> That's what I'm saying. I I think we

need to re readjust our goal here. Uh and there's >> now now how do do you obviously you're single. Do you have any family >> right now? She is.

>> Someone's going Hey, I'm doing my best part. I'll tell you that. right now.

>> He's trying.

>> So, yeah. Are there any people in your life that you would even leave the money to?

>> I would leave it to organizations like for disabled veterans.

>> Wow. >> Um, >> that's beautiful. Do you mind sharing?

Do you mind sharing right now what you have in retirement? What do you have?

What's your nest egg right now?

>> So, for five years, I've managed 275.

>> That's fantastic. Way to go.

>> And you have zero debt?

>> No. No. Zero debt. >> And you're crushing it. Is your Is you are you an electrician?

>> Building inspector. >> Building inspector. Okay, good for you.

So, you're doing very well. We're always going to need building inspectors. You know who can't do building inspections?

>> AI. Come on. Let's go.

>> Amen. >> Amen to that. So, you're in great shape.

>> How How old are you? Can I ask?

>> 56. >> That's right. We do. Okay. So, 5. Okay. So, do you have a specific dollar amount

in mind that you're wanting to get to for retirement?

>> No, >> you don't. Okay. So, I would have somewhat of a goal because you have 200 what' you say? 75,000.

>> 75. >> That's great. Okay. But but also you you're going to want to want more for retirement.

So, I would I would plan out sit down with a financial adviser and just say, "Hey, what's a number I need to shoot for?" And all that is is a goal. Okay? This isn't an identity thing. >> Uh it's just an idea of, "Hey, I have to get to this place." So that's going to give you some healthy motivation to know, am I being cheap here or there?

I don't know. But you have something you're actually shooting for. And then the second thing is once you start to get to that place, you know, money is so funny. It can be such a part of bondage for so many people and on one end people spend, they go deeply in debt and money becomes an idol to them because it's just like, oh my gosh, it's all they think about because they're stressed on one end because they've made bad decisions with money.

And then you have people on the other end of the spectrum where money takes up as much mental calories as people over here, but they have it and it's actually stolen their freedom. You're not free >> even though mathematically you are. So that's the piece from an emotional standpoint I would want to start working on of what is causing that fear.

you said your mom and all of that, but but but really like from day in day out, what is going on in me that's causing me to live life like this? Because from a spiritual perspective, there's a level of bondage there that has to be broken.

And so that I think a goal is going to help you genuinely. I think I think shooting for something where you feel safe of like a number of like, okay, I know this feels this feels good that you get to, but then there's an emotional piece, too, because if you're not careful, that number you're going to get to, you're going to be like, "It's not enough. I got I got I need some more." And that finish line moves and you stay in that for the rest of your life. So, um, so yeah, I would be I would be thinking about that and asking yourself some of those questions of what can cause me to be free to live life with an open hand because some people that are not I'm not saying this is you because you're a very generous person the way you've served in your life and your actions.

So, I don't want to paint you in this corner, but some people that live life like this, they're not they they tend not to be generous people.

So, that open hand mentality is so important with money. But I don't think you have that problem because of everything you just laid about your life story.

And you have a paid for house. Yes. >> Oh, yeah. >> What's the house worth?

>> Three maybe out in the county.

>> You're going to be fine cuz 56 in my book is young. You know what I'm saying?

So, you're in great shape. And you know what? I'm going to do something for Grace. We got a little something. We never know what we're going to give. >> How much stuff do you guys have back here? >> I got a lot of stuff back here. I got a lot of stuff, >> sir. On the front row, pay attention to what I'm doing.

>> Grace, come on down. We have some flowers for you.

You're so sweet. You're awesome. Give it up for Grace one more time.

>> Okay, James, can I call an audible? Do you trust me? >> Okay. >> Can Rachel call it? This is >> Well, let's be honest. Rachel's been >> Rachel can do what she wants. Rachel, why don't you tell everybody what you were telling me in my ear? Go ahead. I like this. >> Cuz we love a settle the debate. It's one of our favorites. And so I saw a couple's hand over here that said they would volunteer >> for a couple's debate. Is this true?

>> Yes. Okay. >> Where are they? >> They're right here in the front. >> Stand up and head to the mic. >> Head to the mic. We're about to settle a debate.

>> It's what we want. >> Thank you, James, our fearless leader.

>> This is what we want. >> This is what we have come here for.

>> This is our favorite. >> I don't know why you all are here. I know why we're here. It's to settle a debate. No, I kid. Okay, this is fun. We want to know your names. We'll start with ma'am your name >> Jessica. >> Jessica >> and Joel >> and what? >> Roel or Joel.

>> Joel. >> Yeah, >> I'll go with Joel cuz I'll butcher the other one. You know. Okay. And where are you guys from? >> Mexico. >> Mexico. No way. Thanks for coming. Okay.

Somebody set it up. What is the debate that you want this esteemed panel of judges to weigh in on?

So we we have um sort of combined our

finance um since we came here to the US

but there's some um some money that was

u before or things that just had u like

a a house and um

yes some some savings or some stocks uh

that we haven't combined. So we were

last week in Kosuml and we were having just a like some tension and discussions about about it.

>> So I don't know >> who wants to do what? Let's give us the two positions. >> Yes. So I would like to know how can I better show her that um

that she trusts me maybe.

>> Oh. >> So what do you so what do you want to do sir? What is what is the position? What do you want to do that you would like her to trust you with?

>> Just uh fully combined finance and everything. Just not finance but everything. >> Everything. >> Everything is ours. >> Love your heart. >> Okay. Okay. So, Jessica,

I mean the guy is emotional. What a heart. Jessica, what are what are you concerned about? And and by the way, not judging you. What are you concerned about? What are your fears or disagreements on this?

So my uh I I'm not sure like or what's

the best way to bring that money here in

the relationship because we are thinking maybe to buy a house but I have like

around 150k and we could bring that

money into the house but I I'm not sure if that's good for the relationship. Uh like >> why Okay, let's stop right there. What would be what do you think that money

and combining things how would it harm your relationship?

>> Because probably he will feel like the house is mine uh or something like that.

>> I pause sir will Joel will you feel that

way? >> No. Uh

I I mean I think it's um

whenever we have these discussions I hear that she wants to take care of her

parents or help them. And this is where I think at some point I don't know if

she feels that I'm not supportive to help her parents. Uh we came we come

from different backgrounds. my my parents are retired. They have no uh they don't need any help. But on on her end, more like a scarcity background and

I think this is also like we get emotional. >> Is is he on target in that your fear is if we combine money, I will lose control

of my desire to help my mom and dad.

>> Yep. >> Okay. What do you need to hear from him tonight to alleviate that fear?

like he will be supportive with my desire to help them and we can make a

plant or something like that.

>> Okay, Joel, what have you not told her or what do you want to re-emphasize to her right now about that concern? Uh I

would say that um as for now we have

maybe supported them the best we knew before just with money but now I think

we can support them with a plan with experiences or even saving some that we

can manage um for us and for them that

in the future can help with the with the

diseases that they might have or they are not planning and we are foreseeing it. But I think writing a plan and

really aligning to that will be helpful.

And then in 10, 15 years or whenever the money's needed, we have it. And it's a it's better managed that if we just give it to them and then

my fear is that they might not uh use it in the best way and we can help better with Jessica.

>> Do you understand his concern on that piece?

I get it at some point, but also I'm not

sure if maybe just like not like a big

amount, but something smaller that we

could can give them now. And then Okay.

>> Are they in need, Jessica, right now financially?

>> Yes and no.

>> Are they asking for money from you?

>> No. >> Okay. So what's causing you to say we have to give some money? I I need to be helping them now. What is that?

>> I think it's more because I would like them to have like experiences or comfort that I have now

and and they don't have.

>> So you feel guilty because of everything they've done for you and yet you're living a better life than them. And so you want to sort of pay it >> back, pay it forward in that sense. Are you guys ready to uh >> settle the debate? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> I know that I am, but I want to make sure. >> Are you? >> I am. Sorry. I'm ready to be a judge.

>> Get the gavl out. >> Hold on a second. >> Oh my god. >> Oh, not the wig.

>> Oh my lord. Oh my lord.

>> What is our prop budget? This is wild.

It's not powdered.

>> All right. Am I going first or last? I feel like you have to go first now.

>> I feel like the wig >> I feel like I have so much credibility with this and this that it might sway your decision, but I'll go first. >> We have different definitions of credibility, but continue.

>> I did notice that both Jessica and Joel went from crying to laughing. So, I think it it did its job. Okay. I think it's very simple. Uh I heard his heart immediately. He wants you to trust him

that he's for you. And if he's for you, he's for your parents. I hear your concern as well, but I also hear that Joel saying, "I'm not sure that my in-laws, your parents, are the best ones to handle a large sum of money." And so, if we commit, and he's committed to writing a plan out to take care of them,

but you use the money, it's your money, and you support them. I think it's a great plan. I think his heart's even better than his plan. So, I rule in favor of Joel.

Really? That's all I get? >> Can I get

>> Can I have the gavvel? >> Oh, yes. Yes. Thank you. Okay. >> Do you want the wig? >> I think No. No. >> You think she's good? She's good. >> I'm fine. I'm fine. >> Burn that. >> Um, my vote is I would combine everything.

Shocker, I know. But I would I would combine everything. I think he needs to hear from you that you choose him

>> over your parents because you've chosen to get married and that man loves you a lot. >> Loves you a lot and he's going to take good care of you. You guys are together going to make a really great team. And I think out of the teamwork, we get to build a life together. And that looks like whatever you guys want, that's the beauty about being adults is you get to make decisions. So together, do we want

to buy a home? together. Do we want to take her parents on a trip every year with us and include them and fly them where they need to be for the kids if you guys have kids in the future? Like what does that all look like with the money that we have together? So on that

basis, I think I'm more in favor with

Joel.

>> Wow.

>> All right. Um >> Oh, no. Sorry. >> Hold on. It's not a real It's not real.

George, I want to make sure you're seeing the object is to hit this with that.

>> I missed it. Okay, I'll I'll end with this. I definitely agree with what they've said, but I think that the heart of this Joel is he's rightfully so

worried that this is going to turn into entitlement from your parents and even enabling. And he truly wants to help them. He loves these people. And I think he wants a plan to make them independent, not because he doesn't want to support them, but because he actually believes in their autonomy to live live their lives without needing you.

And I think that is a noble goal. So I do think you should combine finances, but I think you should create boundaries around what this looks like to support your parents, maybe even a deadline, and not just that forever we're going to write checks to them, and that's going to be the priority of our relationship. Because at the heart of this, the lack of combining finances has created a chasm in your marriage. There is a gap right now where you guys can't be fully together.

It's an emotional thing. It's an intimacy thing. And I think that supersedes the help to your parents. And I think he you guys are an amazing couple. You will figure out the boundaries and how to do this the right way. But I think combining those finances will actually free you Jess more than you think. So I rule in favor of Joel.

But but hey, hold on.

>> Oh, a parting gift.

>> I like the gifts. We got a nice bottle

of Josh. You two need to crack this bottle tonight and start the written plan. All right, here it is.

>> There you go. You guys are awesome.

Thank you guys. You're great.

>> What's the dumbest thing you've ever done with money? >> Bought a car. I probably shouldn't have.

>> What car was that? >> It was a Chevrolet Camaro. Whenever I first started investing, I definitely just threw money at like some meme stocks that didn't pay off. So, I learned pretty quick. Bought a car and

then um the car went bad. I got frustrated and sold it. And then me and my wife were with one car for 7 years.

If you had to cover a $1,000 emergency, how would you do it right now?

>> Credit card. I would pull it out of savings or phone a friend.

>> Okay. So, you have the money in savings.

That's good. >> Get money out of my emergency fund.

>> You have one? Okay. How many months of expenses do you have? >> Sort away. >> Three months of expenses.

>> Honestly, I have a really good village, so I can lean on that if I don't have it. >> Speaking of drinks, you guys know a little something about drinks.

>> Smart money hour. >> Yeah. Rachel created a whole show where she gets to drink on the clock. Pretty famous. >> No. Smart Money Happy Hour was created because I was like, wouldn't it be fun if me and George got to sit down and chat like we do as friends, have a cocktail, talk about things going on?

It's great. But part of Smart Money Happy Hour and one of our partners there is Fairwinds Credit Union. So, we're going to give them another shout out because they are amazing. And I know we've talked about them tonight. But Fairwinds is a such a great partner with Ramsay because when you are using your money and you are having to interact with banks and banking institutions, having someone on the other side of that that is so helpful that knows that you know they are for you in your journey with the baby steps. That's everything.

>> Absolutely. And I mentioned that smart bundle earlier that's got a fee free checking account, high yield savings account, that Ramsey branded debt as normal bewer debit card and you can have up to 10 savings accounts. They created this just for our fans because we know that y'all are nerdy and you like to have syncing funds for the trip and for the car and for all these different things. So, they actually changed their product to serve you guys better. And that's why we've loved this partnership.

They even cut international transaction fees on their cards after they saw one of my videos where I said, "Make sure your debit card doesn't do this." So, they said, "Let's adjust everything to serve the Ramsay fans in an incredible way." So, if you want to check that out, just go to fairwinds.org/ramsey org/ramsey to open up that smart bundle and start to introduce this new bank to the mix and I think you'll quickly find you want to start doing more and more with them. >> Yeah, their app is easy to use. Their interface is easy. Their customer service is incredible.

When you open it, they call you the next day on the phone just to make sure everything. So, I mean, it really is they are incredible people and they have an incredible product when it comes to us that you have to use your debit card every single day. And so, having Fairwinds on your side is so huge.

>> I love it. By the way, real quick question. How's my hair look after having the wig on? Is it all right? >> It looks good. So, >> just want to make sure. I don't want to be a distraction. >> I'll remain silent. >> Thank you, George. This is really, really fun. George, you got your calculator ready? >> Why do you assume that I have my calculator ready? And yes, I do.

>> Because we talked about it earlier.

>> It's ready. >> It says in Yes, I do. >> It's ready. So, here's what we're going to do. We're going to have a fun group debtree scream. How does that sound?

Does that sound fun? But we're going to do something kind of kind of kind of neat. So, here's what we want you to do.

If you have become debtree in the last 12 months, would you stand? Just stand

wherever you are. >> That's consumer debtree. If you did the mortgage, too, that's great. >> That's fine. But it does not have to be the house, right, George? >> Yeah, exactly. >> So, they're standing up there. That's exciting. We got a few more. Okay.

>> Yes. >> This is great. Everybody stand. I want to make sure everybody's up because this is a key part of the thing.

>> Is everybody up? >> Oh, look at them. want to keep. Okay, great.

>> They keep coming. Okay, now here's what we're going to do. So, I'm going to assist George and I'm going to start on the right side of the room and work my way over. And what I want you to do is yell out how much you paid off.

George is going to add it all up and we're going to see what has happened collectively to pay off debt in the last 12 months and then we'll do a group debt free. Love it. All right, I'm at the ready. >> Let's start up here cuz I saw ma'am, how much?

>> 265. Strong start. Use the numbers right

there. Wow. Amazing.

Anybody else up there? Yes, sir.

>> 175 >> 175,000. >> It's our man again.

>> Okay. Fantastic. And after you give me your number, you can sit down if you want, but we're going to ask you to stand back up, but you can rest right here with the Clemson shirt on. Yes.

>> $1,500.

>> $1,500. That's great. We like that.

>> We love it. >> Okay. Right here. >> 27,000. >> 27,000. Good job.

>> I tell you what we're going to do. Let's hold applause so we can move a little quicker. I love your spirit, but we got to move quickly. Want to get >> 12 >> 12,000. Okay, great.

>> 290,00 >> 290,000 in the back. Uh all uh right here, the couple right here. >> 250. >> 250,000 behind them.

>> 150. >> Okay. Excellent. Uh ma'am, all the way in the back row.

>> 3,000. >> How much? >> 3,000. >> 3,000. I love it. Okay. Are you all three together?

>> Just you two. Okay, yell it out.

>> 380ish. >> 380ish.

>> Okay, George. I don't know how you're going to calculate that. >> My phone can handle it. Okay. Next to next to them. Yes, ma'am.

>> 233,000.

>> 233,000.

Okay. And anybody on this? Okay. And now, uh, this couple right back here.

Yes, sir. >> 66. >> What? >> 66. >> 66,000 right here. 75 >> 75,000 right here.

>> 15 >> 150,000 right here.

>> 168,000 >> 168,000 and >> 39,000 >> 39,000. Did I miss anybody?

>> Okay, all those people stand back up.

>> Ken, can I add? >> You can. Before we do that, let's let's get a total. George, what do you have?

>> ABOUT $2.3 MILLION.

>> WOW. >> GOSH. >> OKAY. And you got a fun idea?

>> Yes.

That's a lot of hard work. Okay, I want everyone who is debtree, consumer debt

or mortgage, regardless of when you paid it off, to stand up so you can be part of >> join this amazing group. >> If you are debtree in the room, >> look at this. >> Stand up. >> Everybody up.

>> Okay, this is fun.

>> Amazing. >> George, would you like to do the honors to count them down? >> It would be an honor. You guys know what we're doing. George will count you down.

And I mean, this is from your guts cuz

you worked hard. And we're so proud to be in the room with all of you. You all are heroes. You've changed your family tree. George, count them down. Let's hear a group debtree scream. All right, we've got $2.3 million paid off in the

last 12 months in this room alone in Charlotte, North Carolina. And dozens more have become debtree standing up following this plan. Count it down, guys. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> Three.

That is incredible.

That'll that that'll put a little pep in your step. >> And we don't have time to go around and get everybody else's amount, but 2.3 million is just a drop in the buck

done. So great. Hey, listen. Uh you all are great. Before we sign off, uh, I just want my colleagues a word of encouragement. What would you share with people, no matter what baby step they're in, they're here for a reason tonight.

They're here to be intentional. George, what would you share? >> Well, you know, I see a lot of headlines. I see a lot of scary stuff. I see a lot of doom and gloom out there.

And yet in this room, there is just a beacon of hope. And you guys are not immune to it. You've lived through it.

You've sacrificed. You've had trials and tribulations. And yet, you're on the other side of it. And that I think is one of the most inspiring stories America needs to hear right now. And you guys are living it and I'm so proud of all of you. So thank you for being here.

>> So good.

Amen. George.

>> Yeah. I would say regardless of where you are in the baby steps and some of you are maybe starting baby step one right in all of this and then you just saw everyone who's paid off debt and the numbers are just outstanding of those of you that just stood up. But I would say regardless of where you are, the secret is you. And I think you know that.

And you know what what you want different in your life, you get to make decisions to change that. What you don't like about your life, you get to make decisions to change that. And I feel like we're in a room of people who are willing to do that and willing to face one of the hardest subjects in life, which is money from a tactical side, an emotional side, a spiritual side. And you guys are so engaged and you are not letting this topic ruin your life.

you're getting ahead of it and you're saying, you know what, I'm going to be in control and we're going to change the things we need to change. And that takes a lot of courage.

We love doing this show and we love being able to see the faces tonight of those of you that listen. So, we love y'all. >> Yeah, that's so good.

>> I'll just dubtail off of Rachel. I think she said it. You all did it. You know, we talk about controlling the controllables, and I'm looking at a room full of people, no matter what their story, no matter what their circumstances, no matter what their background, no matter what their environment was. At some point, you made a decision to control what only you could control and you changed your life.

Some of you are in the process of changing your life, and you are the

answer. We aren't the answer. We're just cheerleading you on, coaching you up.

But you are the difference. And I want to share that. No matter what happens later tonight or in the days or years ahead, whatever comes your way, you've won in a major area. And you control

what you can control. Don't worry about DC. Don't worry about your governor's office. Don't worry about what your neighbors are doing. You live the life that you want to live. And you can because you've done it to this point.

So, we're so honored to be with you all.

Uh, I do want to do one thing. I do want you all to join me. We have an incredible crew. It came from Nashville, our headquarters, an amazing team from

James Childs to our live event team to our Ramsey Network leadership, Ramsey Network crew. If you're on the crew, would you stand up for just a second cuz I would love We can't do this. It's going to change so many lives and we can't do this without them. So, would you all join us in thanking them?

Hey, you guys are great. On behalf of our entire team, Dave Ramsey, George Kell, Rachel Cruz, thank you all for being with us. We love you so much. Good night, Charlotte. Thanks, guys. Have a great night.

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## 103. Live from Phoenix: The Ramsey Show on Tour | May 21, 2026


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:31:19 |

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I have a sister. Before she even said I

do, leading up to the wedding, she said, "I will get pregnant immediately. Like, I expect you to set up my baby registry.

I want you to help me buy the car seat.

I want the strollers." >> And what did you do? >> We're a little stressed out.

>> What is a completely irrational fear that you have? >> I don't drive behind the big tractor trailer truck that have all the cars loaded on it. I really do have a fear that I am going to be convicted of murder.

My adult son moved back home. We are charging him roommate rent. Do we return it to him? >> How? Wait, really y'all? >> He's a daggum prone man.

>> How old is he? >> 31.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network, brought to you by Fairwinds Credit Union, live from Phoenix, Arizona, this is the Ramsay Show.

Yes. So good to be in this room. What a beautiful crowd. A loud crowd. And we're ready to go. We're ready to learn from each other. So, let's get it started.

First question up is Courtney. Give Courtney some love. There she is. What's

your question? >> Uh, well, first, thanks for having me.

I'm kind of nervous. Very excited.

Great. Okay. My question is, it's kind

of embarrassing, but my husband and I have combined our incomes. This is We've only been married for about 5 years. Um, and I find I'm having a hard time with resentment sometimes is I make a little bit more money, but he likes to spend the money. So, I know it's right biblically. It's been great for us to combine our incomes, but I'm just wondering what steps I can do to change my heart on this issue and like not

struggle with that resentment, if that makes any sense. >> Is he in the room? >> He's not in the room. No, he's at work.

He's at work. But >> making some money. When you say overspend, >> exactly. He's working, making money.

>> When you say he's spending more, like what does that look like? Give us an example. Is it just running over to, you know, the gas station and buying a Mountain Dew and corn nuts or he's like buying golf clubs? Like what does it look like? >> Um, no. It's probably more like like to

him like we have the every dollar app and everything and so we've made you know line items and some of that you know we have to kind of figure out like what goes where but we have like a general one for Amazon so for him he's like >> look at all that money in the Amazon I'm just going to you know get socks and shirts and you know what my truck needs this and >> well there's your problem >> I know you got to change that. I think part of that is like we're trying to well and what started this was I said something really snarky about a week ago and we got in a big fight about it and we ended up working it out but part of that was trying to figure out I think maybe how to differentiate that >> you need to a bit more >> well wait a second is he going over the Amazon budget or is he just spending it all on himself before you get a chance to get in there >> right there >> well this guy should but in his defense it's not resentful he's just like there I'm getting myself a you.

>> Well, that's my next question. Is he on board with the baby steps and your goals? >> Yes. Yeah.

He was a little bit reluctant, but once we started doing the plan and seeing, you know, the benefit to us in terms of like, oh, wow, you know, we can really put money towards retirement and we can do all these things, you know, we paid off our debt and, you know, all these things. It's been really great. Do you have separate fun money line items in addition to the Amazon catchall? >> We do.

I listen, if it were me, I would just break it up or cuz right now it just says Amazon. Is it like for is it for like household items and he's using it for fun things or it literally is just to your heart's content on Amazon as long as it >> and that's part of it. We haven't like really delineated what it's for.

>> Or cuz if he's using it as fun money, that lets me know maybe his fun money needs to be bumped up. And if you're feeling resentful because you're not able to spend it, maybe your fun money needs to be bumped up. And then maybe the Amazon category turns into, I don't know, like household items or something that's very specific that we're buying on Amazon. Just cuz there's no clarity.

I think that's the problem, right? >> Yeah. And for me, it's a there's a value system difference, right? And so, I'm probably more on your husband's team in our marriage, honestly. I'm probably more him and Winston's probably more you. And I think the the frustration can

be that he doesn't value X, Y, and Z.

So, he sees a purchase or you see your husband spending, you know, and maybe the thought is your knee-jerk reaction is like, "That's so stupid. That feels wasteful. >> That's that's silly. We don't need that." Like, that it feels, you know what I'm saying? Like >> I do, but then I'm like like our argument was over um personal hygiene products like skin cream and stuff and

historically men Ken, how much do you spend on your face cream? >> Oh, this is a very GOOD QUESTION.

>> KEN IS like any other man that you may

even have. >> It's not what you think. No, I do. >> No, Ken is a bougie man.

>> So he's actually him and George Camel.

See great ones to ask. I have one bottle of Kes and it's it's about yay big and

that's all I do.

>> This lady what she makes Sam go through.

It's unbelievable. That man knows about Facebook. >> I'm just trying to make us age at the same time. >> Here's what I want to say.

>> That's me too.

>> But here's >> Have you guys talked about this last situation? >> We did. >> And what was the result?

>> It's not the face cream that's the issue though, right? It just bubbled up. That was the last straw, right?

>> You guys have identified it, but I'm I'm coming on the back end of this when you discussed it. Yeah. >> What was his response?

>> Um, well, his response was he was we were trying to figure out how much to put on that, you know, line item. And he's like, "Well, what about $50?" And I'm like, "No, that's not enough every month for my face cream." And he's like, "Well, what about a hundred?" And I and I was on the spot.

You know what I mean? >> Okay. So, so I think you get great advice from Jade. I do think that you're going to have to communicate some boundaries and if he really is on board with this, he's got to, you know, he's got to play ball.

And I would tell him if he were here tonight, I go, "Hey man, you need to gravel a little bit." >> Yeah. >> And and you need to step into this because I'm also a spender. And I appreciate what Rachel said. This is a communication issue, number one.

sure we understand our triggers with this stuff cuz you guys, the way this went, I'm not criticizing you at all, but what I'm hearing is Rachel is that we went back and forth volleyball.

>> And if you're in a marriage, if it has to be that >> you're this and I have to this this It's an exhausting scoreboard to keep up with, right? >> And he did identify that. He goes, "Uh, I realized I just kind of triggered you when I said, "Oh, I was going to spend more money." You know, cuz that's my trigger. >> It's a good man.

Hey, this is brass tax real conversation and go, we can't play this one upmanship. I do think her answer is the solve, but you're going to have to not just do it on paper. You're going to have to actually behave that way. >> Yeah.

And I I like fun money categories because then you go and spend it. You don't like when Sam spends his money, I half the time I don't even know what he's spending it on and I don't ask because honestly I don't care. And and same thing for me. And I think as long as it's living in that catchall, then you get to ask him, "Well, what happened to that $50?

What happened to this money?" And I think just letting yourselves go and do your thing and be free. And by the way, it's a great thing.

which that might also help you out a little bit. Yeah, we did make it a whatever that's called where it's like a carry it over. >> Yeah. Add it to the next fun that it keeps moving. Yes. >> Yes. By the way, your skin looks fantastic. Can I just tell you the cream is worth it. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Thank you. >> You guys are going to give her some love. Thank you so much for that question.

>> Okay. >> But the judgment free zone on spending is big though in marriage. Don't you all think? >> Say more.

Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz that's what you were saying. They're not going to value the same stuff.

>> They're not going to value the same stuff. went and bought a red light thing. >> Oh, yeah. >> I don't even know.

Yeah. And I was like, I don't get it. That's great. I don't get it.

But, you know what I mean? I want other things. And so, but it it's that constant I don't want to feel like I'm having to hide a purchase, justify a purchase constantly, right? We're both adults.

We're both and regardless of again who brings it in as a household, right? We get to enjoy our money. So, >> so the impulse spenders like me, I mean, I just go sometimes I'm not even trying to buy something and I see it. Impulse vendor.

>> Oh, yeah. >> I did not peg you for that. >> Are you being serious?

>> All of these years. >> Are you shocked by that? >> No. No. >> No. I'm not but I'm not like I'm not irresponsible. >> But I can also see Kim being like, "Look at these boots. I've been looking at these for months. I just can't wait to buy." >> You're You're so intentional. That's what I'm thinking. You've had your eye on it. Well, I'm very intentional. I see it and I go, "I intend to buy those."

>> No, I I I get it. No, I my point is is that that is so huge in our marriage because then it's like this is it's okay. We're not worried about we're not keeping score.

>> Score keeping is big. >> Yeah. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, give some love to Megan who's up next. Megan.

Megan, tell us where you're from.

>> I grew up in San Bernardino, California, but recently moved to Prescott, Arizona.

Um, just closed on my first home a little less than a month ago. >> Hey. Hey, let's give that some love.

That's pretty cool.

Um, my partner and I, we paid off close to $100,000 in debt. Um, and closed on

our first home in March. And our current

it it's not an argument. He backs me 100%. Um, but my question is,

what would you do in this situation where I have a sister who has three beautiful

boys and for the first and the third, I

went above and beyond. I bought the car seat, I bought the stroller, I bought like at least 3 months worth of diapers.

Um, just e easily spent probably

let's say around two grand.

um for her first and her third. I have

another sister who now that she's

expecting has that same expectation

although her circumstances are different where she has the

supportive partner that my sister did not. And so what would you do um or what

would you say to the sister of the look I want to give

you a gift but

situations are different is the reason because and just be real with us is the reason because you don't have the money to help anymore or is it is it a personal thing like is it truly like we're not that close and I just don't feel compelled to help her in that way or is it like tell us more about your reason your person, forget their expectation, your personal reason why it's like ah I don't feel compelled to to give in that way. So financially I

have the means to do so. Um

but also in some ways I also don't because my partner and I are struggling with infertility and so we're looking into infertility treatments and we don't know what that would cost. Got you. Um so we do want to be mindful of that. Um,

but also there is a little bit of a relational difference between sisters.

>> And does it also feel different the expectation cuz I'm guessing the first sister you just did that of your own valition or was she coming to you saying, "Hey, I need you to do XYZ." Um,

so with with the first sister, with her first, it was I was so

excited to have a nephew that would be within close proximity that I could love and I could spoil. With her third, it

was the father literally left the state

when he found out that she was pregnant. She had no support at all. And so I'm like, "Okay, let me let me help you out.

Tell me what you need." >> What about this second child? I'm feeling bad for this kid. I know, right?

>> As middle. >> Keep saying first and third. I'm like, that kid's going to be scarred. Anybody else thinking that?

>> As little children. Little children.

>> No, I actually between the first and the third, it's like less than an 18-month difference. So, he had the handme-downs.

He He still gets the love. He's fine.

>> I don't think he is, but that's okay.

All right. So here's I want to know is this that the the your sister that's pregnant now >> has she verbally said to you like hey

this is the car seat is she like like what are those conversations or are you putting that expectation >> the conversation that took place was

before she even said I do um leading up

to the wedding she said when I get pregnant which I will get pregnant immediately and I'm like okay good for you um Um,

she was she was like, "I expect you to set up my baby registry. I want you to help me buy the car seat. I want the stroller. I want this, that, and the next." >> And what did you do, >> boo boo? >> I said, "We'll see." >> Okay, here's here's what's going on.

Okay, so a lesson. All right,

>> family members get expectations in their head. And I heard something earlier, and this is not on you, but I'm just going to point this out. Okay.

You gave willingly to the other because

you thought she needed it. There was a need there. You don't think this other sister needs it. That is your that's your view. And I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think you have to own that.

And and you have to understand that it's not right for her to say what she said.

That's why the audience gasped. That was cray cray. However, we cannot control

our family members and people do get expectations cuz you were such a great sister. I'm wrapping up, but I I just want to say this.

Well, I got two women on both sides of me. When they ready to talk, I gotta wrap it up. I can feel it.

You need to own the fact that you created an expectation. You didn't do anything wrong, but she took it that way. And she's gone over the top. She's crazy wrong. Just calling it out. But I

think you're going to have to stick to your guns and say, "I don't feel like this is what I should be doing." And I would absolutely say we're in a different season of life. We're trying to have a baby and this could be very, very expensive. Stacy and I walk through that. I know exactly the journey you're considering. And I think you have to stick to your guns there and say, "I can't do this right now. And here's why.

And I'm sorry that you have this expectation, but I can't do that." And you're gonna have to be okay with the results. If not, I think she's going to hold you hostage, and then it's going to be even uglier than it already is.

That's my two cents on that, ladies.

>> Well, I just want to say it's not your responsibility. >> Oh, no. >> Like, you've put that on you. You know what I mean? And I think you have to own that in you. You can only control you.

And Ken's right. When you put up a boundary with a boundaryless person, it

doesn't go well. It doesn't go well.

There's no boundaries there. There's no consideration. There's no gratitude.

There's no compassion or empathy. If she knows what you're going through, there's none of that from her. And that's regard that makes it sound like it's conditional that if she was really nice, she'd want to give. But I I think starting baseline, you have to understand this is not my responsibility.

And so what's within you is what you can control. And so that's that's what I would encourage you to find that inside yourself that this is and it's not a selfish thing, but you're not their mom. You know, you're not you're not their guardian. They're not little kids.

They're grown adults just like you are. So it's not your responsibility. >> Well said. I was yeah I was just going to add on there and I I actually wouldn't give a lot of details.

I'm trying to fund you know this or my financial situation has changed. You're grown. You don't have to say that.

don't have you know don't have that expectation. I won't be able to do that this time. And just keep it simple because once you start rolling out the reasons and the reasons, that's you kind of apologizing for it. And to to Rachel's point, you don't have to apologize for it. >> And under no circumstance do you let her

bully you into doing something once you

make this decision. This the line has been drawn in the sand. You understand?

>> Yeah. >> All right. You don't want to be a prisoner to anybody in your family.

Y'all give her some love. That's a tough tough decision. Yeah.

>> All right. Up next, welcome to the

microphone, Cameron.

There he comes.

>> It's like a catwalk. >> Yeah, >> that's quite the walk. >> Oh, yeah. >> You did good. >> I perfected it. >> You did great. >> You're going to do my my wave.

>> That's great. I don't think that's your look, but that's okay. All right, Cameron, where are you from?

>> I'm from Santan Valley.

>> Okay. >> Just outside of Phoenix. >> Okay. Some of your neighbors are here. This lady gave holy hands. That's very exciting. All right. What's your question? >> Yeah. So, um I'd like to start with the question and then I'll give you a little bit of background. Um my question is,

how do you know when to take a risk on

maybe a side business that you're working on versus pro also while trying

to provide for a family? Okay. Now, a

little bit of background. Um I'm 32. I'm

married. have a daughter. As of today, she's 20 months old. So, young daughter.

Thank you.

And uh we have another baby on the way.

>> Oh, congrats. >> So, the business I'm working on is kind

of based off of reading your book, Find

the Work You're Wired to Do. And I have

a passion for it. It It brings me joy. I

I love it. Um but it's just a side business, right? >> Are you making any money with it at all?

I am I'm making a little bit of money and it's starting to >> it's a couple thousand a month >> and that's after expenses.

>> Yeah. After expenses.

>> Okay, great. >> So, the business is like I I go around the valley and I help other businesses

sell uh products that are just kind of just haven't been sold and they're sitting on their shelves. They need to move inventory. And so this kind of like

good, fast, cheap, sure you works with all of those. >> Yeah. So, I've been kind of pursuing that and I enjoy the connections and the sales process behind it.

>> What's the challenge you're asking about tonight? >> So, the challenge is do I focus my attention on trying to build that or

uh do I just continue with my career path I'm kind of on, but I also have the baby on the way. I have my family I'm trying to support. So, I'm kind of juggling a lot. >> Yeah. So, I think it's pretty simple. I think the fact that you are making some actual profit and a couple grand a month is nothing to sneeze at when I've got another baby on the way.

>> How much time do you spend a month getting that couple thousand like in a in a week? How many hours do you work?

>> And it varies quite a bit. Um >> give us an average. >> Yeah. So let's say average probably 10 hours a week. >> So is mama going to want you to stop working that extra 10 hours a week when baby 2 comes along?

>> Very possible. Maybe for a short time.

So, I think it's okay to press pause on that because it's not your inventory.

It's not like you're stuck with a bunch of inventory on your shelves. That's, you know, I got to I got to get my money back. This is something where you're going out hustling, finding some stuff, and you're a reseller, which I really applaud you on that. So, I think it does come down to the amount of hours >> we're going to work.

And if she says, "Okay, well, you're in in 40 hours a month, 10 hours a week average, you're bringing home $2,000 a month." >> Yeah. >> Is she okay with that? And maybe we want that 2,000 a month. I will tell you this, I don't know what Rachel and Jay think, but I would be doing it all the way up until the baby's born to stack as much cash as possible.

>> So, are you hoping to make that your full-time career eventually?

>> So, in this season, I would just whatever I already gave you what I think you should talk with her about. Okay. Now, going forward, cuz I know where your question is like when do I know when do I walk from my career to that?

>> Yeah. >> Is that the question? >> Exactly. Super simple. You ready? >> Mhm. >> When you have a minimum of 6 months of

your current salary, okay, in your day job, I would want a minimum 6 months. I

personally would do 12 months. Okay?

That's super conservative. They've heard me say this on the show before, but I'd say 6 to 12 months of your current salary, your day job in this side company bank account before I would ever walk from the day job because you don't want the kind of pressure to survive on

a new business. You want a pipeline. You want to prove that I found my places in the valley. They're used to me now. They're calling me. They're calling three or four other business to say, "Hey, you got some extra inventory. This is your guy." you need to build the pipeline plus a bank account before I'd ever even think about moving on.

>> Yeah, I'm think for financially speaking

that makes it makes sense. Um, also it's

it's kind of um you know when the next baby comes. I got two babies and then we got you know everything else we're trying to work on in life. Um saving up for expenses. We just recently paid off our last debt um just two weeks ago.

>> Congrats. So you're on the baby step three. So we we were, you know, hustling and doing all this. Um, and so I guess

it was it was just kind of like that feels like there's a lot of things going on, a lot of things moving right now.

>> Then pull it back and maybe pause, but for how long? >> You guys decide. And you guys need to be intentional about it, right? And to say, okay, let's give it 90 days and pause it

for 90 days and let's regroup and look at 90 days. How are we both feeling?

Like you need to be in sync with her in this process. Um because if you have a spouse that you know if you guys now it's one thing if she's like go go go make money. I don't care like do what you got to do right because there season's a grind and you're both on the same page and even though there'll be hard hard days in the in the grind season you both are aligned. The worst is when one spouse is like I'm going to go do my thing cuz I feel over here and the other one's like this is not what I want my life to look like.

Then you start to walk two different paths.

you both get to say after 90 days or whatever the timeline is like I'm feeling good. This is good or uh let's wait one more month and then after the summer's over whatever it looks like.

So, but just breathe.

>> You're okay. >> You guys make the decision together.

Hey, give this this guy. He's so wound tight right now. He's got another baby on the way. Give him some love. Thank you, buddy. Appreciate you.

>> Thank you. You bet. All right. Up next, coming to the mic is Rauluca. Ruca, give her some love. There we go.

I got to say this. Can I brag? Can I brag? She was at the Chicago event last fall. >> Yeah. >> So, she's like she's making the tour stops with us. >> That's right. >> Fantastic. Okay. Step up to the mic and tell us your question. >> Okay. I'm Ruca from Omaha, Nebraska. And

woo, we got one other person. Great.

>> Very exciting. >> All right. >> Omaha. >> Okay. So, is it wrong to want to invest

uh in the stock market like S&P 500

instead of becoming a homeowner with

your first home purchase? Um, I'm I'm

very content at renting right now. I'm renting a house, have a roommate, and my rent's $1,200.

Um, I do have a six-month emergency

fund. Well, well over that. So, I'm I

guess I'm working on a down payment.

Step 3b.

Um I'm not the stereotypical wanting to

get into a house as a single single Pringle, but >> how long is that your plan? How long do you plan on writing that out?

>> I guess if I had to throw a number out there, 10 years. If I saved up for 10 years, then maybe. And are you investing some of the money in retirement and also some of it in a fund that you could get to like a brokerage account?

>> Correct. Correct. Yes. Do my 15% for the 401k uh with work and then also um just

regular brokerage account.

>> I mean on the one hand obviously if you don't have the money to purchase a home yet it makes sense that you would continue to save up. And if you know the horizon is greater than 5 years, yeah, sure. It makes sense to go ahead and invest that money. I don't want to ask you how old you are in front of all these folks. >> 29. >> Oh, you're there. >> I was going to ask anyway.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, I don't think there's any wrong with renting for a season of life, for a period of life. We were talking earlier, it's expensive to own a home and especially if it's not something you're interested in right now, I don't think that's a bad thing. However, I do think long-term there is going to be a time where you're going to want to stabilize that line item on your budget. And the only way you really can do that is by purchasing a home.

buildinging potential. Right? When we did the biggest study of millionaires, we found, yeah, owning a home is a huge part of becoming a baby steps millionaire. And so, for that reason, I would want that on, you know, in the cards for you in the future.

But if you're saving towards it for you, honestly, you're probably going to be at the point where you buy it in cash because you're such an investor. You're such a saver. I don't think there's anything wrong with that and writing out that timeline.

>> Yeah, I don't mind that.

>> I I don't mind that. >> That's a huge win. And you know what's great about this? The freedom that comes with this. >> You're just stacking cash. You're going to be in a position to do that, but you've also got a lot of freedom.

>> So, I think in your position, I love that advice. I do too. I'm excited for you, honestly. Good for you. By the way, you're crushing it. You know what I mean? I I love to see that you're crushing it. Yeah. That's awesome.

Thanks for coming tonight.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Very fun. Are you coming to uh are you going to make the trip with us down to uh Anaheim?

>> I don't know about that. >> Okay. No pressure. I was just >> Maybe I'll come down to Tennessee. I'll see you guys. >> That is fun. We'll see you there. All right. That is fun stuff. >> So good. So good. Thanks for the question. Yep. Be a great Be a great investor. I love that. Okay, question in the room.

How many of you guys are in a position where someone is dependent upon your income?

A spouse, kids in the room, anything?

Yes. Okay. So, it's a it's a good bit.

And there's a lot of people that listen to us or that are watching the Ramsey Show right now. And that is the case.

And I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is when they don't get life insurance. And it's one of the saddest Yes. >> People are clapping for life insurance.

We know where the Ramsey go, >> right? >> It's what we love. No, but really it is.

And it people get confused because it's not a baby step. Okay. If someone is dependent upon your income, you need term life insurance. And we love Xander

insurance. And Jeff Xander we've worked with for decades and they really are the best place to buy it. So if you do not have term life insurance, you guys, regardless of your baby step, it is something you need to get. >> Yeah.

And I would even add to that, a lot of people get it twisted because they think life insurance is a baby step. It's not. like you do it the moment that you find out about it. So if you're in baby step 2, you still need term life insurance.

And it's so simple, guys. Again, if something happens to you, anybody who depends on your income, uh if something happens to you, they're covered. And that's so important. You don't have to worry, are they going to be able to keep the house?

Are they going to be able to keep continuing life at that level? And we do recommend 10 to 12 times your income.

easy. It's straightforward, guys. Just go with Xander because they're not trying to sell you a wealth building tool. They're simply trying to sell you protection. >> Yeah. And it's inexpensive, too. And if you are a stay-at-home parent, you need life insurance. And we used to say half a million on a stay at home parent, but honestly, I would I would bump it up. >> I'd go as high as you can go.

>> I mean, seriously. Yes. But if you are healthy, especially you guys, like this is one of the the things that everyone needs to have. Again, I said earlier, what it is, it's one of the saddest calls we get when people don't have it and they lose a spouse.

>> Crazy. I remember when we realized I had three kids and I was like, I got to step it up, right? And plus the income changed. And I remember it was so affordable.

I got so much insurance on me. I didn't trust AC when I went to bed. When I happened, >> it's like a dine special.

>> I was like very jittery.

>> So go to xander.com and get your instant

quote online. That's xander.com with a Z. >> And by the way, Jeff Xander, guys, been friends with Dave for a long time. Great dude. Solid company. Can't trust anybody anymore. By the way, speaking of which, I want to thank our friends at Fairwinds. you know, they're the sponsor of our studio in Nashville, and because of them, we're able to do an incredible tour like this. So, we wanted to say thank you again to our friends at Fairwinds Credit Union. Fantastic group.

Need to check them out. We really trust them as well. So, would you thank them for making this tour a reality? Really,

really awesome.

While the Ramsay Show is out here in Phoenix, I thought I'd wander over to Arizona State and ask the next generation how they're handling money.

Tell me the dumbest thing you've done with money thus far. I like to follow K-pop.

>> Have you spent over $1,000 on K-pop related things? >> 3,000? I think >> $3,000. >> Buy a spoiler for my car.

>> A spoiler? What kind of car is this?

>> Uh Mustang. >> Oh, wow. Is it Is it still on there right now? >> Yeah, it is. >> I mean, why take it off? You already spent the money. What' that cost? >> Uh like 300 bucks. >> Oh, that's not bad. >> I went on a vacation first spring break.

Put it all on my credit card pretty much. If I were to cover the tab at a restaurant and they sell me, I think it's free cash. >> You weaponized your own generosity to cause you to spend even more.

>> Yeah, it's a pretty wild take. >> Went to Vegas and gambled my money away.

>> How much did you lose? >> All together, I lost about $2,000 in my winnings. >> Uh, since I'm a Dragon Ball fan, I guess you can see where I'm going with this. I bought like a lot of action figures.

>> How many? >> OVER 9,000.

>> UH, 10. >> You have 10. How much have you spent on Dragon Ball Z related things in your life? $500 to $600.

>> When I was like 14, I spent a hundred bucks on like a Tanner Fox meet and greet. >> What is that? >> He's a stupid YouTuber I watched when I was like 14. >> Did you pay $100 to meet Dave Ramsey?

>> Probably not. No. Sorry, Dave.

>> Sorry, Dave.

So, um, you guys have been asking us questions and we'll get to more of those, but this is the part of the night where Jade, Rachel, we like to flip the script and, uh, so we're going to ask you some questions and you just kind of shout out to us. we'll kind of behave and and we'll figure it out. So, I want to start with Jade. U you get to flip the script. What what what's a question you want to know from the audience?

>> Yeah. I want to know if you've ever bought something simply because you were influenced on the internets to buy it.

You were talked into it.

>> So, we got mics on either side. So, raise your hand and then our mic runners will get to you. >> Maybe it's like the dumbest thing, too.

>> Yeah. And it was stupid. Like it was something possible you regret.

>> Raise your hands again. We got to get them up so we can >> Or maybe it was really awesome and you can tell us about it and we can get one too. >> Where's my mic, guys? Wes, you got them right in front of you. Here we go. Yes, sir. What's your name?

>> Jamal. >> Boy, you got a voice. It's not the first time you've had a mic in your hands.

>> Listen to this. >> My wife is like putting me over here. We have horses and stuff and it was uh some lights. Just regular What are they?

They're just three lights that are not this thing. Well, >> I'm not tracking the horses and the lights. >> What are you talking about?

>> Yeah, it was pretty stupid. I g gathering. >> So, yeah, I bought one just to check it out and then went back on it Amazon and went back online and I looked and they had them like 20% off. So, I ended up buying five. Now, they're sitting in my office in a box. >> What do the lights have to do with the horses? So I'd be able to see them instead of trying to see the horses at night. >> They're like flood lights.

>> Yeah, like flood lights. But yeah, they are. >> What was the total cost of all the lights? >> I don't know. I think it was probably 200 bucks, maybe more.

>> 200 bucks. And you saw this from an influencer or somebody? >> Yeah, I saw it on Facebook. >> Well, did they do the job? Did they at least >> He doesn't know. They're still >> I only got I got one up and it lights the whole area.

>> I still got five, >> sir. It's a It's called a return.

I'm I'm past that already.

>> OH, YOU'RE PAST. I'M PAST THAT ALREADY.

>> WELL, you might have to replace the the the original. So, you know, >> Ken, do you need any lights?

>> Any horses, >> Me and Animals? I just kind of watch them on TV. Thank you, sir. That's very good. Do we have another uh Do we have a specific uh Do we have Let's get a couple more. One more of those. I saw hands right this this gentleman in the orange shirt with the lovely bald head back there. Stand up, sir. What's your name? >> Brad. >> Yes. Brad, tell us the dumb thing or what? Tell us your story. >> I don't think it's dumb. We'll we'll find out. >> Why are you standing then?

>> So, I'm a cyclist and I watched a show NorCal Cycling >> and they kept talking about ketones and so I decided to look at go on to

ketones and they give you energy when you're doing a race cuz I race my bike.

but they're like 120 bucks for like 26 and they're like this big. So for months and months and months, maybe even over a year, I decided not to buy them. But

then I finally went to the site the other day and they were on sale for 80 bucks and my wife saw the expense which

my lovely wife I can see her now >> her hand is in her head and she's just she's just like called me on the phone and asked me what it was and I was like

um it's something I thought I needed.

>> That's what you said.

>> Yeah. >> I thought you would have went hard on the idea for cycling.

>> You waited a year. >> Well, I don't know if I need it yet. We'll see if it works.

>> Oh, >> anybody know if ketones work?

>> I don't think anybody in this room heard of a ketone. >> Did I get scammed?

>> What? >> I I don't know.

>> Look it up. Keystone. Ketones energy.

Ketone IQ. Ketone.

>> I don't think it's a good idea. I really don't. >> I think you should talk to this other guy and you can band together. Send it all back. >> You don't think buying ketone IQ is high IQ? >> I don't think so. >> Okay. Okay. >> But hey, I appreciate that you're out there cycling. >> Yes. >> By the way, just want to say to all cyclists, >> could you guys get over a little bit on behalf? No, no, no. Don't give me the mic, Wes. No, cuz they don't. No. No.

>> They Yes. >> We're We're in the cars. You're in the bike. Get over on the side a little bit.

>> Drives me bananas.

>> We had a whole Happy George Camel and I did a whole talk about that. >> Yes. And I'm so sorry not to pick on you, but yes. at like five o'clock during rush hour on this small and I'm like do you hate your family? Like why do you want to die? >> You hate humanity. >> Why do you want to die? >> You're holding us all up. I just want to get home.

>> Anyway, fun stuff. We do love you, sir.

Just there's a lot of pent up anger at cyclists like I've got. Okay. I have a fun question, I think. Is there anybody in here that's willing to share uh maybe an ethically questionable move you've made to save money? Yes, I see that hand

right here. Keep your hand up so we can get to you. Stand up, sir.

>> I like you. What is your name?

>> Anthony. Anthony. What is this ethically questionable thing you did to save money? So, I ran this by a couple of my friends. >> That was a good decision.

It's It's okay. Well, I'm a travel nurse

and uh I go throughout the whole country kind of working everywhere. And I was doing a stint in Harlem. And when I was

there, I stayed in a apartment that was completely empty. Didn't have a bed or anything. So I ordered one online that had like I think it was like a sixmon return policy

and I was only there for 6 months and it

came in a box.

So, I made it up to the top of the apartment and uh it was a free return

and they picked it up in the city and

technically I didn't need it anymore.

So, >> and it was it was within the six-month window. >> It was within the six-month window, but I think I violated the spirit of the

return >> because you slept on it. >> You slept on it. >> For how many months did you sleep on it?

>> 6 months. >> Oh, right at the wire.

>> Right up to the wire. You need to go see this gentleman with the extra flood lights. He needs some mentoring from you. That's pretty questionable. It's It's right in that gray zone.

>> I mean, how much money did you save?

>> Oh, how much money did you save? It was one of those uh nice like king ones. I

went I I got free sheets out of it and

>> Did you keep the sheets? Did you keep the sheets? >> I did cuz they let you.

>> Okay. I want the George Camel THING. HOW MANY OF Y'ALL HAVE USED something and returned it? Like, well, no. Oh, shame on all of you. Shame on >> Well, wait a second. I want the audience to vote. >> Does it depend on what it is?

>> No, >> you've used it. >> Well, like sometimes you get a pair of shoes and you're like, these are terrible. Like, I can't wear after one day, not 6 months at the office.

>> Okay, I'm saying you walk around for a day in them, you're like, >> show of hands. If you think Anthony was unethical, raise your hand.

>> I I bought it with every intention of returning. >> No judgment. This is just right. If if you would have done what Anthony did, RAISE YOUR HAND.

>> I love it. There's some cheap people in this room. >> I'd split. George would be so proud, wouldn't he? >> Yeah. George used a vacuum cleaner, y'all, for like 5 years at Costco. And he was like, "It doesn't work anymore." And I'm like, "Yeah, cuz you've been using it for 5 years and did a return." I was like, "Oh my gosh." >> Funny.

>> Anthony, you're a trooper. You're a trooper.

>> All right. So, I have a question. This is going to take some some, you know, >> don't make me feel in the blank. I don't know where it is. >> I don't know. Is that okay to say? Take some balls from the audience. >> Rachel Cruz.

>> Then I thought the ladies in here anyways. Okay. When and what was the

last marital argument you had about money? >> It's going to take It's going to take some courage. >> There we go. In the back of the room.

>> I see. That's what I want. Stand up.

Stand up. >> Tell us what it is. >> She's not even here to DEFEND US. SO,

>> WATCH. FIRST OF ALL, what's your name? >> My name's Andrew. I actually called six or eight weeks ago about my type 1 diabetic daughter and I want to thank you guys for having >> I remember that call. >> I wanted to thank you for how you handled that and she's doing great and I wanted to appreciate you guys. That's right. Who was on? >> I remember that. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. But my friend, I was telling you her daughter had it. Yes, I totally remember talking. Who was it?

George, who was with me, George or >> Del? It was Ken. It was you and Ken.

You made such an impact on >> boy. I feel pretty stupid right now.

>> No. All right. You guys take >> If you gave me a few more details, I would know. But uh glad she's doing well. >> No, she's doing great. I appreciate that. But the last marital conflict that we had over money was I'm into baseball.

I'm a Dbacks fan. Go Dbacks. They're going to do something this year. I really do think so.

>> I'm a big Diamondbacks. Diamondbacks.

>> Yeah, I know. You got to be careful. >> Don't shake YOUR HEAD. YOU CAN'T SHAKE your head. Don't be I know you.

No. No. We just misheard you.

>> You said Dbacks really fast.

>> It sounded like something else. That's all. >> Well, I want I want to I We don't We live in Santan Valley. Go Santan Valley.

So, it's a 45 50-minute drive to the stadium. So, we don't go to games all the time. So, I want the baseball package to watch the games on home. We have had couple of intense moments of

fellowship last year about how many games I was watching a week and then but then I promptly blamed my son for it uh because he wants to watch them too and so I tried to bring him into it and my wife didn't fall for a pro move by the way. >> I got four kids. I have the most kids.

I'll use them for anything. And um but

anyways that didn't work either. And so um so she told me no and I was like all right I guess that that ships over. But then this year, um, I was able to say, "Well, I get a student discount because I got one last year. It was only $120 last year." And she gave me the go-ahad.

She's like, "Go ahead. Just do it. It's it's going to be fine." And I said, "Cool. It was $220." And she didn't say

anything about it until 5 minutes after I did it. She's like, "It's $220.

You said go ahead. I didn't know what to do." So that was like the last major thing that we got into. >> How'd that finish out? What's >> I'm rushing the game before the thing started tonight. So, we're doing just fine. >> Great.

>> Well, guys, if you can get away with it, that's a great move. All right. Thanks for sharing, guys. That was good.

>> Uh, do we have another one of those? These are really good. Okay, I've got a question. We'll do one more and we'll get back to uh your questions. Does anybody have a really weird or peculiar

hobby that cost, you know, a decent amount of change? Anybody got a hobby right here? I see. Oh, I see two right here. Let's start back here. Right in the middle with the hoodie. Yes. Stand up. We'll get to you. Here comes Katie.

Oh, I can't wait. I love this. Real quick, tell us your name and what the hobby is. >> My name is Margaret. >> Okay, Margaret. >> And it's not my hobby, but it's a family thing. >> Okay. >> Club sports.

>> Club sports. Like as in what? Soccer.

Basketball. >> Yeah. My son's in club soccer. My daughter's in club softball. My daughter plays golf. And all our money goes to

sports. I feel like it's a confession.

And is this is this a confession?

>> Sports dad. >> Oh, you just turned it down. >> And somebody didn't play sports growing up and somebody did.

>> This got a little deeper than I thought he was going to.

>> Now, wait a second. You just stood up and just totally threw him under the bus and backed up over him and he still got the thumbs up. Are do you guys need Do you guys need an intervention or are you guys okay? You got margin?

>> We got margin. >> So, you can afford this? That's what we just spend our money on our weekends and her nights. >> She is not happy about her life.

>> Would you would you like us to weigh in on this or No.

>> No.

>> I appreciate the honesty.

>> Well, I will say this cuz you you didn't ask me too, but I'm going to tell you anyway. You guys need to have No, I'm serious. You guys need to have a real conversation cuz what has been done in just here tonight has got some seriousness under it. And I'm going to tell you something else to you, sir. And I grew up playing every sport. I did played everything. But I grew up in an

era where there was no club sports, right? It was just wreck league and and all that stuff. Your kids are probably not going to go pro.

>> We know that. >> Well, then why are we spending all of our money and all of our time on something that is not going to ROI? You don't have to answer it. And I'm not being unkind, but I'm just going to be really honest with you because I think underneath the jokes and the thumbs up and everything, we're a little stressed out.

>> We're not stressed out financially about it. We're just stressed out. We're stressed out relationally. >> I can't do cuz we're spending the money on that.

>> I think you guys need to have a date and let's cut back. The kids are going to be fine. All right.

That's a fun confession there.

>> I'm very passionate about that because >> I agree. Yeah. That and that's a hot button topic. you put that out on the internet. >> Well, I know that about travel sports.

>> I'm going to get killed for that. But the data backs me up >> and and all the specialization in youth sports right now. Let's make it very clear. And this is a guy who loves sports, but the specialization is a con. And

they're conning good people out of money. And they're praying on our desire

for our kids to be stars. And I'm not picking on this couple. All I'm saying, we're all susceptible to that. And at some point, we got to say, wait a second. What is most important? Is it Johnny playing on every travel team or is that we actually have a life? And so, I'm just going to throw that out there at risk of being the grumpy old man, but that's what I think. So, there you go.

All right. Up next, welcome to the mic, Robbie. Robbie, come on down. Yeah. Give

him some love. Keep up the energy. There he is. All right, Robbie. Close to the mic. Tell us where you're from. uh from Gilbert, Arizona. >> Nice.

Oh, strong representation from Gilbert tonight. Good to see. Good to see.

What's your question? >> Uh so my question is um I've been working 7 days a week for the the last 2 years. U I'm trying to figure out how to create some urgency with my wife surrounding our debt, which is about 150,000. Um I think I've tried

everything possible, but I'm just trying to create urgency with her.

>> Is she here tonight? >> She is not here tonight. I did invite her, but she didn't come. >> Dad gum it. >> Yeah, >> why not?

>> I don't think she likes this. >> Yeah, she might not.

>> It might be a bad word in our house. So, we've been >> I don't think there's any might about it. >> So, when you when you guys sit down and the number comes out, $150,000 of debt.

What's her What's her response to that?

Not the Ramsay plan, not the the way you want to get out of it, just the debt. How does that make her feel? I think it's it it's been going on for so long.

I think she's kind of accepted that that's just the way things have to be.

Um yeah, I don't think she she thinks too much about it and just kind of thinks that's the way life is right now.

But um I feel like I'm working hard and working a lot and I'd like to see the needle move, but I just don't know how to motivate her.

>> And what part of that is she unwilling to move on? Is it a certain line item on the budget? Is there something you want to do like sell a vehicle and she's not on board? Show tell us real things that you're wanting like moves that you're wanting to make that she's not on board with. >> Um I think all things are on the table.

Um selling vehicles, cutting back on expenses, um selling what needs to be sold that we don't use. Um like I said, I think everything's on the table for me. >> And you've said that to her. So, cuz my question is, I don't know if she's a numbers person, but if if you say we have $150,000 of debt, and we could move 50 of it just by selling off these vehicles, and then you're kind of laying out the timeline of, you know, how quickly you could be free.

I don't know if you've done that. Have you? >> Um, I've done it in the past. It it seems like it's so far away that it's kind of hard to accept, though.

>> Okay.

>> At least four years away.

>> Okay. Yeah, that's a real thing. So,

>> the hard part with this is I I do think that most of us in here have had some sort of an iPad at moment or some sort of a catalyst moment. And sometimes with couples, it doesn't happen at the same time. >> Right. >> Right. It'd be wonderful if it did and then you're on board. That's what happened with Sam and I happened at the same time. But if it doesn't, it's that ongoing conversation and that continuous

feeling of it. Right. And the way that you can help push on that is to tell her how you're feeling. Uh, I'm just feeling trapped. I don't want to feel like this forever. I feel like I just go to work and go to work and we still feel broke.

And if you're telling her constantly how you're feeling and that you have a a hope for a different future, that's the best you can do, right? And then at some point, you've got to get to get to her heart on it and figure out what is it on her end that's keeping her from that because we all have a desire to be free, all of us. So, my guess is not that it

doesn't bother her or that she doesn't care about it. there's probably something deeper under there. Maybe there's a fear because the truth is she doesn't know. She doesn't know for sure

like inside of herself what's on the other side of that sacrifice. And I think that holds a lot of people back. What if I do this and I sell the car and he works extra and we still don't get to it, right? That's very very scary. It's an unknown. It's fear of the unknown. So if I were in your shoes, I'd be a detective. Like I'd be a full-time detective trying to understand really what is it that's bothering her so you can turn that screw.

>> Okay. >> And you may have had so much control over the money and all of it's on you that she doesn't feel the weight of the

finances in your home at all to feel anything right stress or whatnot. You're taking it all on. You're trying to be the hero in the situation. And the truth is it's both of your debts, right? Like you guys are in it together. What is what consists of the 150,000? Is it consumer? >> Um couple consumer loans and then student loans. >> And student loans. Both of yours just >> uh the consumer is ours together.

Student loans are mine >> are yours. Yeah. Yeah. >> What's your income? >> Uh last year our gross was uh 141.

>> I think the hard part is sometimes if one spouse is so passionate about it and wants to do it, they're carrying the all the emotional weight >> that the other spouse doesn't honestly have to feel anything. >> Is that what's going on? Is that what's going on? >> Uh, it's tough.

You know, I have a 14-year-old daughter and, you know, we don't spend a lot of time together because I'm always at work. So, um, >> No, no. I I get it. I heard what Jade said.

I heard Rachel said. I'm curious. You were saying, "Right." Right. I want to know like, is that what they're describing?

Is that what's going on in your house? She just has no belief that it could ever happen, so she's just resigned. Or is it she doesn't think it matters?

you know, >> so she doesn't have hope. >> But have you have hope in that?

>> Have you shared what Jade said? Have you told her how you're burning out?

>> I mean, on occasion, but you know, I sometimes it sounds like complaining and I don't want to complain. I just want to work. >> Wait a second. Wait a second. I'm starting to pick up on something.

>> I don't think, and there's no shame in this, friend. There's no shame, but I'm taking a chance here. I don't think that you have sat with her and poured your heart out to her about there's the emotion right there. I don't think that she actually knows how exhausted you are physically. I don't think she knows how exhausted you are emotionally. I don't think she knows that your heart is broken in two because you can't spend time with your daughter.

I don't think she knows it because you've built up in your mind that you've got to be a good man. And I'm here to tell you, my friend, I'm looking at a great man,

but I think

I think that's what's going on. Tell me if I'm wrong. That sounds right. What are you afraid of when you tell her if she were sitting here?

I'd get you to tell her that, but what do you think her real reaction would be if you put yourself out there? And I know I'm asking a lot for you to be that vulnerable. What do you think she would How do you think she'd react?

>> Um, I think that if I sat down and poured my heart out to her that she would understand. I just don't know that I've, you know, I've done that yet.

>> And that's okay. And I don't bring that out to put any ounce of shame on you, my friend. But I'm telling you, if you care about your marriage, if you care about your 14-year-old, if you care about living a life that you desire, you have to do this. You are in a danger zone.

man is not meant to work seven days a week and never share what's really going on. I also think that you're in control of the money. And I think you got to let her know how you feel and then you got to say, "Babe, do you trust me?" Because if you trust me, I can get us out of this by leading us. Well, one of the things we got to do is sell the car.

I'll go first. You see what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. >> You got to lead. But you can't lead if

she doesn't know how you really feel.

And so, I got something for you. Okay.

I got I got two things for you, but I can only hand Could you bring the bottle of wine? >> Oh, love. >> This is very exciting. I got some flowers for you.

>> You're going to go home with these flowers. Rachel's bringing a nice bottle of red wine. Okay. And you guys are going to you're going to have a moment.

You're going to say, "Ken, put me up to this. He's a loudmouth on the Ramsay show. Blame it all on me. I can handle it. >> It's his fault. >> But you need to have a conversation and share your heart. Be vulnerable." Vulnerable is strong and you're a strong man. You got me. All right, brother. We love you. We appreciate you. Give him some love. That's really cool. Really fun. By the way,

I've said this the entire time I've worked for Dave. I have the spiritual gift of giving away Dave stuff. So, just got a little budget of fun stuff back there. Maybe you'll be lucky tonight.

All right. If you do a good job. Hey, that was awesome. Wasn't that fun? Hey, I want to bring that back really quick because I I jumped into coach mode, but I I would like y'all's perspective from

the female side of things on what you would add to that and and when it when a couple like that is completely in different lanes. Anything you want to add to that? I don't want to miss that.

>> No, I think it's I think it's an important and I think it's more um it's more of the marriage issue than the money issue, right? The issue is vulnerability not fully being known for whatever the reason, right? And I think we all can have elements of that. Um, you know, whether his fear is weak, I don't know what it is, right? Like that whatever's driving that wall to be up

and this need to be the hero, be the

person that just takes care of it. I'm not going to worry about anyone else that that then puts up your spouse on

the other side of that wall, right? And I even had Dr. John Deloney. as the visual of the bricks in the backpack, but you know, and you carry this around and your spouse has no clue, has no clue what you're carrying around. If you don't share it and open that openness then creates that teamwork and that sidebyside connection with spouses. And again, there's always going to be one spouse that's like crazy Ramsay and obsessed. Okay, we know who you are.

Like, there's always going to be that one and there's always going to be the one that's probably rolls their eyes a little bit, but they're on board because they love their spouse. And I really believe wherever he is, I don't know where he went, that your wife is a good woman and if you have a great marriage, she's going to she's going to embrace that, right? And and if she doesn't, that's a marriage problem, right? We have to like be talking about that.

And so that's what's wild about the Ramsey Show is so many of the money calls we get, >> oh yeah, >> it's not a money issue. Money is the symptom of what's really going on.

>> Yeah. Okay. Up next on the mic, give some applause to Maria. Maria, welcome.

>> Hi, Maria. >> Hello. >> Where you from? >> Tucson. >> Tucson. Let's go. Nice. Nice.

>> Wildat country. >> There it is. I get it. I watch the sports. >> Great. >> My Michigan Wolverines pretty much destroyed you guys during the final four. I want to throw that out there.

>> Yeah, that was such a disaster.

>> You can boo all you want, but we won.

All right. Thank you very much. Sorry, Maria. Back to you. I I couldn't help it. I'm a shameful sports fan. All right, go ahead. What's your question? >> All right, so my question is um and for

a variety of different reasons, we recently had my adult son move back home. So part of that was he was in a condo. The the HOA was very defunct. He was going to pay off debt, got out of a a not fantastic relationship. So we are

charging him roommate rent. And the

question is, do we return it to him?

when he is ready to move out or if there is something he

>> I'm confused. >> I I jumped I jumped ahead and shook my head. >> I'm very Oh, you said no.

>> Wait, really? >> Yeah. No, he needs to freaking >> How old is he? >> How old is he?

>> 31.

>> No, you don't give him the money back.

He's a daggum Mcrown man.

He doesn't know it's coming back to him.

>> But he was paying rent at the other place. >> Okay, MAKE YOUR CASE.

>> WELL, OKAY. WHAT'S YOUR What's your financial situation? >> I am not debtree. >> Okay, never mind. Now, >> does it matter if you were worth $3 billion? I wouldn't give him that money back. >> He's a 31-year-old grown man, Jade.

>> Yes. >> I know. But have you heard die with zero? This idea that you you know what you mean that you're going to be >> Stop it. I feel like that's the

>> that's like the point of that book.

>> Okay, that would be my question. What caused you to charge him rent to begin with versus just say, "Hey, he can just stay here for a while." >> Oh, I guess that's a really good question. Um, I think it was just the sense of, "Hey, you're here. We want to

make sure that you understand you still need to pay something. This is this is

not forever, right? This is a temporary plan," which it is. Um, and I think it

was going to be a very temporary plan until we both went through FPU and all of the sudden now he's like, "Oh, no. I got to pay off everything, including the student loans, before I buy a house." >> Yeah. But he can rent somewhere else.

>> Yes, he can. He could. Yes.

>> Yeah. Yes. That's what I would say.

>> What are we talking about here? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. >> What is WHAT DOES THIS GUY DO FOR a living? Um, he he works for the US

Postal System. >> Great. What does he make?

>> Not a ton. >> I didn't ask that.

>> What does he make?

>> Less than 70,000 a year.

>> Okay.

First off, >> listen, I love that you brought him back in. >> That's okay. I love that you're charging him rent. Your instincts were right. I hate the idea of giving him his money

back. He's 31. He needs to get back out

there. He can take a couple extra routes. He can do something more. He's a grown freaking man. Get out of the

house. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. I just call him >> That feels like a very like mommy thing.

Do you know what I mean? Like that you would do for >> my reason I'm pushing back a little bit.

Just here's my case. If he was expecting

it and he was like listen I am like give

me my money back all of this. Now, the fact that you have debt, all that, but if she was standing there and she was worth $10 million and she's like, "Hey, you know what? I'm gonna help you with a down payment on her or whatever the situation, >> right? But he needs to get on his feet." Like, he needs to get >> 100% 100%.

So, he does need to be set up.

>> that I think I think that's different.

the idea of saving up a pot of money for

a specific time. >> The parent is doing it without the child knowing right. But there's also I would think that there are certain parameters that I would want in place like okay this person is >> 100%. >> And that's what's missing I think right now. >> Yes. >> What's missing is this young man who you

love needs

gumption. He doesn't need a refund.

And that's what you're saying. I'm just telling y'all. Listen, I'm in a greatest mood tonight, by the way. I want everybody to know I'm having the time of my freaking life. But I'm gonna tell the truth when somebody asks this. And here's what happens. I'm going to go back to something earlier with the with the sister. We create unrealistic

expectations that become unmet

expectations. I'm going to say that again because that was so good. You all need to get that. Okay. When we do stuff like this, I'm not judging you. It's a sweet heart of a mama idea,

>> but you asked.

>> And Rachel hasn't made her case.

>> I have one more thing. >> We create, okay, I'm gonna say this. You create unrealistic expectations that you do it again. And then when you can't do it again or don't believe you should do it again, you create unmet expectations.

And unrealistic expectations always lead to unmet expectations. And on the other side of that is bitterness and resentment. And that's why I'm so strong on that. >> Okay. I am more Give Yeah, we can give Ken a hand.

I would say I'm way more passionate with him getting out of the house. Regardless of if you refund him or not, I don't care if you do or not. That doesn't bother me. Apparently, it very much bothers the audience and Jade and Ken.

Uh but it does bother me that he's still living there. He has a full-time job. He's 31. Even just for him dating.

>> Oh, no. No. This is recent. This is a recent development. Wait. So, how long has he been living with you? >> Um, so a Well, it'll

>> a year. >> I heard it.

>> Okay. I DON'T LIKE WHERE THE I TRIED TO HELP YOU. I TRIED to help you.

>> I also want to know how much rent he's been paying. >> No. Well, okay. So, it's it's He's just renting a room, so it's low rent.

>> You need a number. >> How low? >> He just needs to get out of the house. >> A number. >> Give the number. Give the number. He needs to get out, though. >> $500.

>> It's just a room. >> Okay. But if you split a twobedroom, >> I bet he goes in the kitchen though.

>> No, no, no, no.

>> J all the time. >> It really, it really doesn't. The financial impact has been not like negligible. Nothing. >> Okay. >> Um the idea behind the refund was

save it up and then when he's when he's ready to buy the house, when the market is favorable, he finds what he needs, whatever, >> he's ready financially and it goes towards the house.

>> Yeah. I wouldn't let him know it if he decided to do it. I don't care. I'm more passionate that he needs to get out. He needs to move out. He needs to be a man and and pay his own rent to a landlord that can ask you this, right? That's what I'm more >> passionate about. I'm going to frame it another way. Let's pretend he was still in the other apartment. He never moved back in. Would you be setting aside $500 every single month to put towards his down payment on his house?

>> Oh, great, Jade.

Oh,

>> that's how you know. That's the old Dave Ramsey. That's what Dave used to do.

He'd flip it. >> I'm going to tell y'all something. If I smoked, I'd have had a cigarette about 5 minutes ago.

>> I'm going to tell you right now. You're a sweet mama. I got something for I got something for you. >> Been great. >> I got a fun gift for you. You're not going to like this, but I'm going to give it to you. Oh, boy. Hold on.

>> Oh, wait. Ken, what are you doing?

>> Just be quiet.

I'm giving you these little these little baby Nike shoes to remind you that he can't wear these anymore. It's time for him to go. Y'all give her some love.

>> Okay. On point. >> I'm on fire tonight. ON POINT.

>> GOOD NIGHT, EVERYBODY. GOOD NIGHT.

Got to love the baby shoes.

>> This next question is brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default and you're not sure what to do next, Yrefi can help you explore refinancing with a low fixed rate and a

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>> Up next is May. Welcome May to the mic.

Hi May. >> Hi. >> How are you? >> Good. How are you guys? >> Good. What's your question? >> If you could go back and ask your 23-year-old self, what piece of advice

would you say?

>> So, if we could go back to our 23-year-old selves and give one piece of advice >> or multiple >> or multiple. Okay. Who wants to go first? >> Well, I think I'd have to go back a couple more years for it to work. like for >> I like that. Take us >> I was already in a lot of debt by 23. Um

>> I pass or life >> both. >> The the life advice I would give is

understand the tension

between patience and persistence.

Um, you know, when you're young, 23, and I remember at 23 specifically, uh, I happened to be worked for the governor of Virginia, and I thought I was going to be the next US senator, and then I thought I was going to be president of the United States, and I thought it was going to happen in 10 years.

>> You know, just a 23-year-old, no clue, super I'd vote for you, Ken. >> I appreciate that. I appreciate your vote. I believe this audience would as well, >> but that's not what this is about. And so, I was a super ambitious kid. And I

think what I've learned over the last

almost 30 years is that there is a

natural tension. And what I mean by that is like we desire, and this really helps those of you in the baby steps here. We want to get through the baby steps. We want financial peace. We want to win professionally, whatever that dream is.

And we go after it. And we forget that

the magic is the getting up every day

and chopping the wood, the persistence, showing up.

But the magic is when we show up and we know it's going to take some time. And very few times can we control the timing.

And so to embrace that tension between I'm getting up and I'm hustling, I'm getting after it and I know it's still going to take time and I've got to be patient. And a lot of people think that patience is in is a passive

word. It's not passive. It's very active, but it is in the mindset and it is in the spirit to wait on the good things. And my one of my favorite scriptures comes from Isaiah. Those who wait on the Lord will mount up on wings like eagles and soar. They shall run and

not grow weary. They shall walk and not faint. And here's what's interesting.

What Isaiah does there really quick is that he shows us different seasons of life and different paces. And then we get some seasons where you're soaring.

And those of you that are in baby steps six and seven, you're soaring. We got a lot of people in this room that are just walking and hoping not to faint. Come on. Can I get an amen on that one?

And so I think you got to embrace that. So that would be the life advice is to understand for anybody who wants to accomplish anything in any area of life, you got to get up and show up, but you got to also wait on the results.

Uh, I would probably go back to 23-year-old Rachel and I I would I would

tell her be confident in who God created you to be because there's only one you.

He's just created you. And so, trust

your inner voice. Trust your gut. Trust who you are that it's beautiful and wonderful. And that goes into like the I think all lanes. So I think back for me at this age I was traveling and starting to speak and all of this and I remember looking up I was probably like 26 and I did so much like my love my dad. Love him. God bless you Dave. Wonderful man.

Uh but I I would I would teach and talk

and speak kind of like he did so long. I

really tried to emulate him because it was like okay I'll just do what he did because it's working and I'll do what he did. And I remember waking up at like 26 and I'm like, I am not a balding 60-year-old man. Like I I'm young. I have a baby and I'm pregnant and I like to shop and I

budget, but like what does this look like, right? What does this money stuff look like for me? And the moment I found my voice, it's amazing. It's amazing how you live life and it's not exhausting.

You're not trying to perform for everyone else. And that also bleeds into your lifestyle and money. When you try to be like everyone else, keeping up with everyone else, what everyone else is doing, what everyone else is buying, what everyone else is looking like, driving houses, they I mean, when you just try to be like everybody else, you're going to not only be spinning your wheels, you're going to be discontent and spending money on things that you really don't value. And so, focusing on you, who you are, who God

created you to be. There's only one you. So, be Yeah. Be you.

All right. I've been thinking sitting over here thinking about this for a couple minutes while you guys were saying yours. And you know, I got to say

there's like the the practical stuff.

Like if I could go back to my 23-year-old self, I'd say you're going to try to start a business when you're like 26, bypass the first idea and go straight to the second idea because the first idea was a failure, right? So, it's like little things that I could go back and tweak. Um, but I think in all of it,

when I think about 23-year-old me, I had just gotten married. Sam and I had not discovered our debt just yet. That was going to come a year later. And I think I would just say like go easy on yourself because the next couple of years are going to be really, really hard and you're going to be put to the test.

But this is a good thing. Like tests are there to make you strong and this is a really, really good thing. in the end, you're going to be complete and mature and lacking nothing, just like it says. So, I think I would just tell myself, hey, go easy on yourself.

Go with the flow.

>> Okay. Thank you guys.

>> Yeah. Thank you.

>> All right. So, uh, we ready for a little ask me anything? I'm going to ask one that has nothing to do with me, but this is great.

What is your favorite conspiracy theory?

One of us up here really buys into these things harder than the rest of us.

>> Oh man, I have so many.

>> You got to pick a favorite.

>> Um, probably because it was kind of all in the news. I We did not land on the moon in 1969.

>> Wow. Okay. Show a round of applause if

you agree with Rachel.

>> Round of applause if you think, well, she spends too much time reading rumors.

>> She's cray cray.

Well, very vocal group.

>> Okay. >> Now, there happened to be a cameraman on the moon so happened to get everybody.

Come on. >> You're telling me or all that fake job

that no one at NASA has blown the whistle? >> There's been two. There's been two. Yes.

>> I don't know. I need more information. >> Just saying. >> All right, that's good. >> And we all circle the moon recently.

We're all like, "Oh my god, it's amazing. I thought we've been there walking around 69." >> Nobody got to help. >> That's what I'm saying. Y'all stayed in the ship. You didn't get out. I got to move on. This is killing me.

What is the weirdest habit that you have that you're willing to admit publicly?

>> I mean, I have a lot of >> weird habits. >> Weird is a strong word. Ken, >> the word you used one time was peculiar.

>> Yeah. I am very choosy. I'm very thoughtful. Some might say intentional.

>> Others might say wise >> or OCD.

>> Her your your um cleanliness. I'm kind

of like Niles from Frraasier. Do you guys remember Niles? He would like wipe everything off first. >> Is that your weird habit that you're uh >> I can tell you a habit that's also a pet peeve that others like if you use the

restroom, you have to close the lid before you flush.

>> You mean like the total lid, not >> Yes, it m it. And so >> you think projectiles or >> Yes. That is my number It's a pet peeve.

If like people come to my house and I they're like, "Hey, can I use your restroom?" And like afterwards I'm like looking around the corner. I'm like, "They didn't close the lid. What is wrong with these people?" >> And I don't know what it's like to be you. That has got to be exhausting.

>> I'm very clean. I like cleanliness. We

are eating back there and she's like, "I'm going to keep my plate on my lap cuz I don't I don't know how I feel about this." >> One lady is very passionate in her support for you. >> Listen, inside clothes versus outside clothes. >> Um, >> thank you. My wife's going to be very upset that I'm admitting this, but you all are going to enjoy this cuz I've shared it.

Okay, everybody makes fun of me on this weirdest habit that I'll admit publicly. >> Um, I'm a very neurotic sleeper, >> so I have lots of supports. I have a fulllength body pillow that goes from my ankles to my elbows. >> Pregnant woman.

>> My wife bought it for pregnancy. Didn't like it.

"It's kind of interesting." I tried it.

I love it. I haven't gone back. I'm on

my third one now. It's great. And then I have an eye mask cuz I got to have total pitch black darkness. And then I recently discovered the greatest health phenomenon in the last 5 years. Mouth tape.

So I'm mask, mouth tape, body pillow,

and I sleep like a baby.

Not ashamed of it.

>> Oh lord. >> All right. All right. >> You're like a mid-40s woman, Ken.

>> Oh, I'm a very well-rested man. Okay, one more here, maybe. Uh, let's see.

What's a fun one you guys You guys are in on this, too. What do you see there that you want to answer? >> Uh, what is a completely irrational fear that you have?

>> I have one. >> Go ahead. You go first. >> You go first. I And I think it's going to happen in my lifetime. So, I need you all to support me.

>> This happens. >> I'm so excited right now. >> I I really do. And I play this out in my head sometimes.

I I really do have a fear that I am going to be convicted of murder and that I didn't do it. But you're in the courtroom and you're on the stand and you're like, I did not do it. And they find you guilty and you like, yes, >> you go to jail. >> Yes, y'all.

And I'm just like, I didn't murder them. I promise. So, just know I'm innocent if anything ever happens.

It's all the It's all my It's all my stuff. If I ever mysteriously disappear, you all look into her first. There's some deep-seated stuff. >> I really am. I just don't want to be convicted for a crime I did not commit.

>> I appreciate that. Do you have a uh irrational fear?

>> I mean, you do. >> Nothing is coming to mind.

>> Germs.

>> Well, no. Germs. I'm not afraid I'm going to get sick or anything. I just think they're gross.

So, it's >> You know what? This is silly. Every time I go in a tunnel, a lot of times in New York, the Midtown tunnel, whatever, tunnel. I always think that the bricks are going to break and the water's going to come in.

Look at the people shaking their heads. I feel so seen. >> I always close my eyes. Do you close your eyes the entire time?

>> Close your eyes, but I am like, "Let's get through the tunnel." >> Okay. I I have a little bit of one. And it's not completely irrational. Like on the highway, I don't drive behind the big tractor trailer trucks that have all the cars loaded on it.

>> Again, people are with us tonight. Okay.

And one more fun one here. Let's see. Uh oh. What is one thing you spend too much money on and you don't regret?

>> Ooh, you all are interesting.

>> I think that's me. >> What is it? >> So, I love house plants, like indoor plants. I have tons of My house is like a jungle. Um, in my kitchen alone, I think I have uh maybe 15 plants. I have a lot. It's

beautiful though. It looks nice. Um, it's not weird.

>> Not at all. I but there's a plant shop in my city that I like and I can just go in there and just >> Well, let let's finish this out. What is a What does a really nice plant set you back? >> Uh the last it was like a little ponytail plant that I bought and it was like $210.

>> Wow.

>> $210 on a plant I've never heard of.

>> Yeah. >> But it's probably good for the oxygen and very >> Yeah. It went in my husband's office and I was like, "Doesn't this make it so much nicer to work every day?" And he was like, >> "Yeah, I guess so." >> Do you have something like this that you uh overspend? What What was the thing they said? Spend too much money on.

That's all relative, I guess.

>> Yeah. Um I mean, I would say the the it's probably wasteful, but I do it because I like the convenience and I like it. Valley parking at the airport.

>> I appreciate that as well. >> I do. I'm like, I don't want to be chugging through a through a parking garage. Not that I'm going to spend a little bit more and I'm going to Yeah, >> I do the same thing. >> Oh, that makes me feel better. >> I'm a convenience animal.

>> Give me convenience. >> I need to get in. I say hi to a nice person who's very happy to see me right

in the airport. >> That's a spending love language. Convenience. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Speaking of convenience and selfare, >> the thing I like to spend money on with zero guilt, >> spa day with my wife.

>> Thank you. I do. I do. >> Facial massage. >> Oh, no. facial. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I'm a guy. I like a great massage. Yeah.

>> Like the steam. Like the sauna.

>> Oh, the amenities. >> I like the mineral pool. >> Wow. >> I like sleeping in the recovery room or whatever they call that when you come out. >> What is that called? >> Relaxation room. >> Relaxation room. I got to tell you, I like until Stacy's like, "You're snoring.

>> I do love that." >> Sipping on your tea. Good.

>> You guys are very fun. Thank you for the fun ask me anything questions. It's very exciting. We never get those questions.

All right. Uh Rachel, >> up next, I think we had actually another question from the audience. They they're not going to come up to the mic though, but Kelsey, who was in the room, she submitted a question. Should my emergency fund be in a high yield savings account, audience?

>> Yes. And if so, where is one of the best places I can put that money?

>> Oh, you guys already know where we're going with this. >> Well, let me tell the why behind the what first, cuz I think that's important. First off, yeah, for money, you want to keep it someplace liquid that you can easily get to it. So, it's not invested, but you can get to it.

So, that's a great place to keep an emergency fund. Obviously, it's another place that's separate from your normal checking because I'm the type of person I need it separated. I don't want to accidentally spend it. So, an HYSA allows it to be separate.

And also, it's insured, right? It's FDIC insured. So, that's really great. And uh Yeah.

Y'all yelled it out. Who do we love?

>> Fair. >> Fair wins. Like a fourth of the audience. >> Fair. >> Fair winds. No, but for real, Fairwind's credit union, you guys, they are amazing. We have started partnering with them and they are I mean, honestly, they're a credit union, but in the banking institution, they're the only bank that I mean really is for you.

Like, they are for you getting out of debt. They celebrate your financial journey. They love the Ramsay baby steps and they really do partner beside you.

And so, they're wonderful. So, they have the smart bundle, which is a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, like what we were just talking about. You can actually have up to 10 high yield savings accounts. So, if you love having different funds for different things, you know, in your account, you can see all of it. It's all right there. You can open up up to 10.

And then you also get the Ramsay Beware debit card, which we love. It's like a blue debit card and it's wonderful, but you can use it. And Winston and I, we did we has transferred over to Fair Winds. And I remember the night we signed up cuz I was like, "Okay, this is going to be like a but you know, when you switch banks, it's like it's a big deal." But honestly, we went to go sign in and it was like some documentation here, there.

I mean, it took me maybe eight minutes. It was so fast. And then we can connect all of the other accounts we've had to it so you can transfer money so easily. And then I got a customer service call the next day.

And it wasn't just cuz it was us. It was like everybody. Everybody gets a call from their team. So their team, they are they are incredible.

And also do want to thank them. They are our studio sponsor. And by the way, we met so many of you earlier tonight. Come to Nashville. This was such a great experience. They're in Franklin, Tennessee. Fairwinds is our studio sponsor and also huge part of why we can do tonight's show. So we want to thank Fairwinds one more time. Thank them for being such a great partner.

All right, now we're ready to get back to your questions. Come on down. Barb,

there she comes. Give her a big hand.

Yes.

Oh, look at her. She's excited. I like it. >> Hi. >> Hi, Barb. Where are you from?

>> Originally California, but I've been in Arizona for 30 years. >> What's your question? >> So, I'll start with the question and give you some background. Uh, well, maybe the background would help. I'm way beyond baby steps and I am self-made.

>> Way to go, Barb. Yeah, that's amazing.

Great job. >> Thank you. I'm twice widowed. So when you said stand up and are you single?

Yeah, I'm single. Just happened last August for the second one. Don't. No, it's cool. It's cool because out of sadness comes happiness.

>> You have to pick yourself up and get going. And I had to do that. You know, I

was 40 years old when I got my bachelor's degree and I got three masters in my 50s. Completely paid off.

So you can do it.

>> Wow. Ladies and gentlemen, Superwoman,

that's amazing. So everything works because I've been doing it before I even knew about Dave. So

qu So I'm selling a house here. I'm

moving to Florida to be with my daughter and her two sons. Single mom. She's had

it pretty difficult. And um so I'm swapping houses, but I have another house that I'm selling which will go back into that fund. And I do the things with the bank accounts where I want to switch. Boop. Boom. So my question is

Michelle's only got about 120 on her house left. She's a

struggling single mom and when I sell my second house because the first one is for the swap.

I'd like to help her pay that off so she could be debtree and I'll have the profits from my house.

This is in Albuquills if you're familiar with that. >> Yeah, I sunk a lot of money into bringing that up so I could sell it. So, I'm wondering because I heard you say, "Ah, don't do that for your kid." But, you know, she's in her 40s. She's been there for a while. And I would like to

do that for her, but with the caveat that if I pay off her title, >> I get to be put on the title just in

case we're >> Do you want to be on the title >> with her? Because I'm going to give her >> No, don't put your name on the title. That's her house. That would feel like it has strings attached >> because she knows that once I get this house, 20 years, it'll be hers cuz I'm 70. I think it would be amazing for you to pay off your daughter's house. That to me is a very different situation than earlier. I think that's great.

>> What say you? >> Uh I agree wholeheartedly. It's a It's a different situation. >> Yep. >> I agree. I think it's beautiful. It's changing your family tree, right? We talk about that a lot. And what can you do? And you're not enabling her in any way. No, cuz I still give her some money to help with the boys band uniforms and this and that cuz she and she doesn't ask unless she really needs it. She say, "Oh, mom, I'm having trouble with the boys stuff." And I'll go, "Okay, cuz

she'll get it anyway when I'm gone. So, it's either now or then, I guess." >> I think because you have the money to do it, you're doing so well. And I when I think about grandkids, I feel like that's grandparent stuff. Like, you're going to reach in and do things like that.

But that's that would be my reason behind it is you're in the financial position to do it. It doesn't sound like she's been in a situation where you're floating her. >> No, I've never She's done well in her career. We graduated together for one of my masters.

>> That's amazing. >> Very cool. >> It was great. >> So, what what is her income? Do you know? >> I'm sorry. >> What is her income? She's um school counselor in Florida, so she doesn't do

so hot, >> right? >> I don't know the exact number, but teachers, counselors in here. >> Well, the point is she's she's self- sustaining. She's a mama bear taking care of the kiddos. I think you're a great mom, and again, we're totally in favor of it. Don't put your name on the title. You don't want it to ever feel like strings are attached. Just I want to do this for you, baby girl, and do it. >> Yeah. Make sure gift tax and everything with floor like Yeah. double check taxes

and all of that because there's there is a gift tax. I'm trying to think if it gets put on real estate. Um but just double check. >> That's what I was kind of wondering if I >> make sure. Yep. And yeah, because it changes every year, too. Um so depending on when you sell your home and all of that, but it could be. Yeah. Talk I would talk to your to a CPA just to double check that you're in the clear.

Thank you. You're mom. You're a good mom. >> Everybody give Barb some love. That was fantastic. Thank you, Barb.

>> Great job. >> Appreciate that. All right. Up next, please welcome to the mic, Phil. Phil,

come on down.

All right, Phil, get close to the mic.

Tell us where you're from. >> From East Tennessee.

>> Wow. >> East Tennessee. >> Athens. Oh, by Athens.

>> Oh my gosh. My mom grew up in Madisonville. >> That's where I actually live right now. But >> shut the front door. Are you serious?

>> Yep. >> You don't meet many people from Madisonville. >> I plan to relocate to Arizona.

>> Okay. We like Arizona. It's the >> Are you out? That's why you're out here. You're kicking the tires. >> Visiting grandma. >> Oh, it's very nice. Everybody on the count of three. One, two, three.

>> Phil, you're amazing. What's your question? >> So, the question is, I'm about two weeks

away from being debtree for the second time. I don't want to make the same mistakes. I invest in real estate, flip houses, and I got overleveraged. So, I'm almost out again, and I should have some money left over. The market where I live came down about 20%. So it's a lot less than I expected. The question is if it were

if you were in my circumstance,

would you buy a house here in Arizona, maybe cash if it the numbers work out with the sale of this house, or would

you rent for a while and keep the money

to continue to flip houses since that's where I've been making my income? I would focus on your permanent residence first before the flips. So either that

is you go rent for a year in Arizona just to kind of see where you want to be, which I don't think is a bad idea.

Um, but you have that money earmarked for buying your personal residence and

then anything above that is what I would put to the flips. But yeah, I would I would prioritize my personal residence before the flips.

>> Okay. um caveat with the money if it's

if I wait a year I know you're a five-year rule which I've heard money market account if you're not going to do anything if I also have been investing my money in the stock market and make doing pretty well would I would you invest or just hold off >> not for one year I wouldn't cuz Trump's going to burp next week and it's going to like tank again and then like it's going to do this and it's back up y'all know it's back up when it all went down when Iran happened like it's It's crazy.

So, no, I would not. No. Too volatile right now. >> If you're in it, stay in it. We're going to ride it out together. Woohoo. It's a

fun ride. >> Y'all give him some love. That's That's a good question.

All right, we got time for one more question, then we got a really fun way to end our night. Please welcome to the mic, Aaron. There she is.

Hi, Aaron. >> Hi. >> What's your question? >> I'm I'm a little nervous, but I'm doing great. I'm super excited to be here. Um I'm a huge fan. Um again, I mentioned I was from Canada, so I came here all by myself um just to see you guys.

>> So, >> Canadian

>> and my two boys um are at home, but they're huge fans, too. And they're only nine and 12, but you're you're changing their life. Well, what are their names?

>> Dylan and Riley. >> Can we say hi to Dylan and Riley? You got an awesome mom.

>> YEAH.

>> OKAY. SO, here's my question. Um, so I came here alone, like I mentioned, all the way from Canada to be around like like-minded people. I listen to the show every day, uh, literally. And my biggest

struggle, um, is feeling sort of alone at the top. Um, I'm almost finished baby

baby step six, which will be January 9th of 2029, but it feels kind of isolating and lonely. Um, how do I better handle mentally being the different one in friend and family's group groups?

>> Could you tell us a little bit more about what you're experiencing?

Not just maybe thinking that they're saying, is there anything you're experiencing with that group of people?

Yeah, something definitely comes to mind that happened recently. Uh before I came, I was telling my mom, you know, I didn't tell a whole lot of people I was coming here even, but um you know, I was

trying to talk to her about her um future and and retirement. She's already retired, but uh I was trying to teach her almost some of the things that I've learned. And and it's an odd dynamic when it's the daughter, you know, trying to teach the mom. So, you know, I can teach my sons and tell them everything and we listen to it all the time. But yeah, it's just like she she doesn't want to hear it from maybe a child. So,

I'm definitely hearing some push back from her of like, okay, sounds good.

But, you know, and I do genuinely want to help her. And, you know, she jokes about like just, oh, live in your basement. And I'm like,

I love her to death. But, >> does she ask for the help? Like does she ask for you to >> Never, not once. But I see what could be

coming perhaps down the road.

>> Yeah, it's tough because to your point, you're the daughter and she hasn't asked. And so in those points, I do think it's the best way to approach that is it's really cool to talk about the

you, right, and say the things that you've done or the things that you've learned. Um, and it feels a little less judgmental. And I I have a feeling you're already doing that in the right ways, though, because I can just tell by the way you're talking, it doesn't sound like you're walking in there saying, "Mom, you need to do this and you need to get your budget and you need Right." Um, and and then after you've said all you can say, you just kind of move on.

And most people, they see us leading by

example. Like they see your life, they see what's going on. And at some point, if she gets to that point, she'll ask

and she'll say, "Well, what did you do? How did you do it?" And you have to be cool with if she never asks.

>> Yeah, that's fine.

>> Yeah. Thank you. That's great.

>> Yeah. And I think it's hard to what you said is so true when you start to move

past your parents from a financial sense. Some people feel that spiritually, some people feel that emotionally. You know, like there's it's weird when you if you pass your parents in any any part of life. That's an odd

thing as an adult child to be like, "Oh my gosh, I'm doing better than my mom in

this situation." And your heart in it is so good that you want her to have control and freedom and set her life up well. Um, but you cannot put a lot of energy even if even though it's your parent, you know, your mom or your friends or whoever. You cannot put energy into people that don't want to change on that subject. So, you do kind of have to surrender and just be like, "This is what I've chosen to do with my life." They may choose to do it, they may not.

And that's that's up to them. That is not my thing to carry. That's not my burden to carry. Um, but I can see the isolation part of having some fun wins financially maybe for you or hitting milestones. You're like, man, I wish I had people to celebrate this with. So, >> yeah, that's I think that loneliness is

is very real and honest. Um, but also I

don't think that that all has to be your identity either. We pair so much of our

um success or lack of success financially with who we are. Um even though it's a big part of our story and it's wonderful and it's great, but it's not you. That's not that doesn't you know your money, your baby steps, they don't define who you are.

>> Um and so I think concentrating on that end um and connecting with people on things that aren't just money, you know what I mean? Is is great, too. But that that lonely part is real. And I think you just have to to own that until you unless you find someone in that.

>> I got an idea. Okay, >> Erin, you hang out there for a second. Okay. >> Okay.

>> So, one of the unbelievable magical

things that Dave discovered years ago, decades ago, was the power of community.

And we saw it come alive in Financial Peace University. My wife and I, many, many years ago, now over 20 years ago,

led our first class in Atlanta, Georgia, as we were making progress. And uh the

community that we experienced was like many of you. It was lifegiving to be in

the room with other people that were feeling the things you were feeling, that were thinking the things that you were thinking, that were in almost identical scenarios.

And that's what made Financial Peace University special. And uh it's the community. And I'm sitting here listening to Aaron and I'm like, Aaron came down from Alberta, Canada, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, just to be in the room. She's on baby step six. Is that right? And she

used the word isolation and loneliness.

And you all know how hard it is to be lonely or isolated in any season of life, but certainly on something that is so core to your convictions.

So, I'm I'm going to do something. Okay.

I want to know if and and I'm starting here. I wonder if there's any sing Well, let me ask you this. I'm making this up as I go. >> Love it. >> When do you return? When do you go back home? >> Uh I get home like early Thursday morning. >> So, what time do you fly out? That's what I'm saying. When? >> Tomorrow night at 8:00.

>> Perfect. That's what I was hoping you were going to say.

Are there any single women in this room tonight >> or men?

I wasn't going to go there, but I I'm serious. Are there any single women in this room right now that are willing to hang out with Aaron tonight or maybe go to Stand up. Stand up. Single ladies, I want her to feel safe.

This is not a dating thing. Okay. So, here here's what I want. I want you ladies, Aaron, you look at these ladies.

Stand up, ladies. Look at her. After the show tonight, I want you to connect in that in that corner of the room back there with Katie. Okay?

And and these are your new friends. What's your name? >> Martina. >> Martina.

And what's your name? >> Mariam. >> Mariam.

>> That's Aaron.

>> And Aaron's your new friend.

>> And so you all are going to either go out tonight after the show or you're going to do breakfast tomorrow. Okay?

>> And you're going to have three new friends.

>> Three new friends who who feel you and

know you and care about you. and they're going to walk with you even if it's long distance, FaceTime and text. Will you agree to do that? Say yes if you do. No pressure if you don't want to. >> I have international. >> You have an international plan on your phone. It's very exciting.

Are you willing to stay in touch with her? >> Yes. >> Are you willing to stay in touch with her? Because this is what life is about.

You need community.

>> And so, thank you ladies. You're amazing. And so what I'm going to do to get it started is we got a little uh little bottle of procco to get the party started. So I'm going to give that to you, Aaron. And ladies, thank you all.

Would you all give these ladies some awesome love? Can I hug you? You're so awesome. Ladies, thank you. That's really cool. I know I put you on the spot, but Rachel Jade, I tell you something. It's not right for her to go back to Edmonton, Alberta, feeling like she's isolated. >> No, she's got three new friends now.

Community. Yes. Being with people, it's a big deal. So important. So important.

Don't try to run this race alone. It's so stinking hard. >> Any part of life, marriage, parenting, anything. Yeah, >> those really special ladies. Thank you for that. And I appreciate you all doing that. Okay, speaking of community, so we've been doing this on tour. We do a group debtree scream. And so Jade is going to be my assistant here. So here's what we're going to do. Okay, here's what I want. I want if you have paid, if you've become debtree, okay, in the last

12 months, would you stand up? all throughout the room. Stand up. Stay standing.

>> Stay standing. In the last 12 months.

Yeah. You can platform. That's cool.

Okay.

All right. Here's what we're going to do. So, Jade's got her calculator out.

I'm going to go around the room. James is also keeping a tally and we're going to find out how much money you spent. So, I'm going to point at you. You give me the number and we're going to add it up to see how much this room has paid off in the last 12 months. And then we're going to do a group debtree scream. How does that sound? Pretty fun.

>> That was kind of weak.

>> So, do we have anybody up in the upper deck? >> We do not. Okay. So, I'm going to start over here and uh we'll start right here in this row. The green blue shirt right here. How much? Give me a number.

>> About 40,000. >> 40,000. >> Okay. Sit down once I I get your number.

So, sit down for just a second so I can keep track. Uh right next to them in the dark shirt. >> 80,000. >> 80,000. Next. >> 80,000. >> 80,000. Okay. right here.

>> $61,000.

>> Mortgage. >> And your mortgage, of course. Yeah, I thought so. You guys can be seated for just a second. Okay, let's go right back there behind them.

>> 60,000. >> 60,000. Okay, next to them.

>> 400. >> 400,000. Okay.

>> 20,000. >> 20,000. Am I going too fast? Are we good? Okay. >> 60,000. >> 60,000. Hold the applause. We're going to do a real big thing. Okay. Right here, sir. >> 42 >> 42,000. All right. This couple >> 60 >> 60,000 directly behind them.

>> 12,000. >> 12,000. Directly behind her.

>> 65,000. >> 65,000. Right behind him?

>> 130 >> 130,000. Ma'am, right here, >> how much? >> 50. >> 50,000. Okay. Uh, right here.

>> I paid off my third house 12,000.

>> 12,000. Way to go.

>> Right here. >> 75,000. >> 75,000. >> 5,000. >> 5,000. Right back here. I'm so sorry. In the middle. >> 27,000. >> 27,000.

Who? I'm I'm getting there. Who did I miss? Right here. >> 40,000. And the last 500 WAS JUST TODAY.

>> OH, THAT'S FUN. 40,000 there. Okay. Is

that everybody in the last 12 months?

Right here. >> 122,000. >> 122,000. We added it. That was a nice number. Okay. If you just gave me a number, stand up. If you just gave me your number, stand back up. All right, this is very exciting. And uh what's our

number?

>> Drum roll, everybody. Drum roll.

>> 1,981,000.

>> Wow. >> 2 million. >> 1.9 million. Almost 2 million.

>> Almost $2 million. >> That's wild. >> That's crazy. Okay, can we do Can I Can we add in more people? Okay, if you're just debtree in the room, stand up. If you are debtree, don't have to be this past year. just in general everybody >> if you've paid it off.

>> Fantastic. Okay, you guys know what to do. Do you want to count? I feel like you should count it down. >> No, I think we all count it down. >> We all count >> as an audience, right? >> All right, here we go. What's our number? Just >> 1,985,000 >> plus a whole bunch more from a whole bunch more of debt-free people. We're going to do it together. You guys know how to do it. 3 2 1

That is so great. You can be seated. All right. Before we let you go tonight, um we've done this in every city and and I want to start with Jade and and uh I

just want you from your heart to share a word of encouragement. What's on your heart and mind for these fine folks tonight? I'll just tell you guys my life

verse. Galatians 6:9. Don't grow weary in doing what is right or don't grow weary in welloingo cuz at the right time you'll reap a harvest of blessing if you don't faint, if you don't give up. And I

know there's a lot of people in here scrapping and and and just grinding right now and and it feels thankless and the road feels long and you wonder if you'll make it and you wonder if it'll be worth it on the other side when and if you make it. I'm telling you it's worth it. I'm telling you, you will make it to the finish line. I'm telling you to hold on.

I'm ke telling you to just keep doing your best. Keep grinding it out. There will come a time where you cross the finish line. And there will come a time and I want you to imagine it tonight.

I want you to take the time to just lay in your bed and go think about what it's going to feel like when the debt is gone, when the money is saved, when the mortgage is paid. and just let yourself sit in that for a while because the time will come and when the debt is gone, it's gone. You never think of it again. It's just poof.

feeling and I promise you, you will get there. I'm proud of you guys.

You know, I think of the most impactful words I've ever heard Dave say. I mean, I just think it had to be anointed when he first came up with the idea. And I I've never asked him. I think I need to ask him if he thought about it ahead of time or it just came out one day on the air. I actually don't know. But it's this iconic phrase, if

you live like no one else, later you can

live and give like no one else.

Unbelievably profound because of the

sheer focus that I think it gives people. And so I'm just going to follow along with Jade here and say that I think those words that you've heard Dave say over and over and over and they're burned into your conscience. Don't let them become ritual. I think it really is

the key because what Dave figured out is

on the other side of the baby steps and all of the tremendous work and the shortcomings and the stalls and the restarts and all the things. He realized that the power of that phrase was the live like no one else at the end of it and the give because

there just something about the human spirit. We long to give to each other.

We long to make our mark in this world.

Nobody has to teach us that. It's hardwired into our soul by our creator because he gave. And um so I would just

encourage you to take those iconic words

and let them be an anthem no matter where you are to say on the end of this deal I am going to be able to live like

no one else. And Rachel said it beautifully tonight in the advice to her 23-year-old self. I'm looking at some beautiful people here and all of you have a different version of what live like no one else looks like on the back end of that. And I would hold on to that dearly. That's your why and it is powerful. It will pull you through all the stuff you're going through. For those of you that have made it, spread the word. Spread the good news of what

it's like to live and give like no one

else.

Yeah, money is such a it's such a fascinating topic because I feel like it's one of the topics in life that can bring so much guilt and so much shame on

one end of the spectrum and then yet on

the way other end of the spectrum, it when it's seen in a healthy way and it's not an idol. It's not the thing that's the end- all beall, but it's a tool in our lives to change our family trees to

bless the people around us and do what we have to do. Right? Money is powerful and it's only really powerful and used for good when it's put in the hands of people who choose to use it well and to

be in a room honestly and we feel this all over like when we go to all these different states and all these different cities. Like it really is incredible you guys. You know, you can watch the news and hear all the jabber about what's going on, but like y'all are it. Like, we're it, right? I mean, there's people like you everywhere who want to create

solutions for their lives in a subject that's really hard. And you know the secret that it's you that's going to do it. No one's coming to save you. You've chosen to do something well with your life that's well beyond money. It's a legacy. A legacy play. It really is for

your own family, for the people around you. And so we are just encouraged by you. The hope that we see in rooms like this all over is just it's just amazing.

It really is. And so we are your cheerleaders. We are yes on this

specific stage in these lights, but you all and the lights out there like you're the heroes. You're doing it. And that we the fact that we get to walk beside you in your journey and hopefully cheer you on is a pleasure. and we love what we

do. We love you all and keep up the hard work. >> Arizona, you've been so great. On behalf of Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Jay Warshaw, and our entire crew that is here tonight, thank you all for being here. Have a wonderful evening.

>> Thank you guys. Thank you.

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## 104. Lose the Ego, Win With Money | August 7, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:13:16 |

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsay Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. My co-host today is Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of the uh Smart Money Happy Hour hit on Ramsey Networks and my daughter. We're going to be here and tell you the truth all day.

We're going to talk about you, baby, right in front of you. The phone number is 888255225.

You jump in and we're here to help.

Herman is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hey, Herman. What's up?

>> Hey Dave, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Hi, so my call is quick and simple hopefully. I am a married man and I have

a wife that is a spender and um I just

want to know what can I do to get her

more on board with the Dave Ramsey plan.

Um we went to FPU.

I watch her show pretty much every single day and I I try to tell her things. in her YouTube shorts. And I just feel like there's nothing I can say or do that makes her change her ways.

And I just I don't know what to do anymore. >> I think we're going to phone a friend. We're going to call Winston, Rachel's husband, and ask him how he dealt with Rachel being a spender.

>> Perfect combo show.

>> If we can do that, I'm cool with that.

>> Okay. Well, my question is to you, how are you approaching it? Like, have you guys sat down and had actual real

conversations or has it been not that it's passive aggressive to send >> throwing are you throwing Ramsay YouTube grenades? Is that all you're doing?

>> No, no, no, no. So, we have had heartto-hearts. Okay. >> Uh, and what's her rebuttal?

>> Conversations.

>> Uh, there is no rebuttal. That's the thing. The thing is just when the example is we we my my brother's about to have a baby and she decided to throw a baby shower and we spent about 700 on

that and we're in baby step where because of that we're back in baby step one and that's the kind where I'm like I you know >> I and she's super nice she's a great person super giving a little too giving sometimes when we need to take care of our stuff you know >> so I I don't know how or what to say to

get her to do this Dave Ramsey plan.

>> Well, quit saying Dave Ramsey for one thing. >> Okay. >> You're gonna turn me into a dadgum cuss word in your house, man.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You kind of are already.

>> Uh yeah, too late. Yeah. You Okay, so number one, I'll let Rachel chime in, too. But most guys make this more than

gals make this mistake.

>> You talk about what to do rather than why to do it.

So, you need to p you need to pan back and dream together about what life would be like if we had built some wealth

>> and and didn't have the stress of money.

>> And you've got to get some buy in in this highdefinition dream >> and then only then are people willing to

do the hard stuff to get to the dream.

>> Right.

>> Yeah. And I would say >> I feel like I've done that.

>> Yeah. Well, what I'm wondering though again is too for spouses especially with

money because it's such a hot it's such a hot button because it does it causes so much stress and conflict. And so for

you, Herman, I want I would want the conversations more so to go not pointing at her and saying, "You did this, you did this, you're doing this, you're a spender, you're out of control, you spend $800, you you what's going on with you, Herman, right?" And coming to her in a sense to say, "Hey, as your husband, I have some fear around this.

This makes me um when I when I look at the pattern, what I'm what I'm scared about is that we we're not going to have financial security. we have a lot of debt if something happens like like what is going on within you because it can easily become you don't mean it to be but it can become the blame game of she's the problem and you're the savior in the situation right and so for her to understand where you're going from what you were just saying it's not the what we got to get on a budget you have to stop spending but it's why what is going on with you and then at that point Herman you know if you guys talk through and it's not that she can never spend money because that's another thing some people not that you are this but some people right they was so extreme where the spouse is like, "This is the most miserable life because you're giving me $150.

We don't have $1,000 to our name and you spend $700 on a baby shower and I'm throwing a flag." Okay. >> Right. >> She's out of bounds. Okay.

Completely out of bounds. Like that's like sixth grade math violation right there.

You just don't do that. A an adult an adult knows that boundary. Okay.

>> Yes. I I hear you. But also, I do want to make sure he's giving her the runway to really understand the reality cuz sometimes people in his situation, they're they're running and doing all the logistics of it. >> Yeah. I'm just saying if we sit down and we say this is how much money we have and then you go do that, that's a problem. >> Yeah. 100%. No, I agree with that.

>> Yeah. So, anyway, I Yeah, I'm going to pan back and I'm going to make this a conversation. So, here's the thing. Maybe we can go this far.

>> Hey, I'm I'm worried about this stuff.

This is bothering me. I'm terrified. Our

current process is not working. It's it's hurting our relationship and it's and I cannot see a prosperous future with the way we're doing this. So, something's got to change.

>> Now, sit down here with me and let's talk about what we want our future life

to look like. What my friend Henry Cloud calls our desired future. And then you have to ask yourself, what must be true to get to that desired future? And if if

she's like, "Nah, I'm going to do whatever I want." Well, you now have a wife problem. You don't have a money problem. Now you have a marriage issue. You need to go to a marriage counselor.

But most of the time, you're going to get buy in when you ask questions and pull rather than push. And when you talk

about where we're going rather than how we're going to get there. >> Yeah. And and >> what Simon Sennet calls the why.

>> Yeah. And she, to your point, has to live in the reality of the numbers. You can't live beyond that. And when she starts to live beyond that, that shows a level of immaturity honestly on her end that she can't be an adult and do, you know, fourth grade math of like, okay, we have this, >> we can't overspend here.

Like, right, like there is a point of that. So, I would want to know from her what is causing this. >> Yeah.

>> That's right. >> The second adult in the equation.

>> You're not a caretaker. You She's not You're not her daddy. >> Yes. >> You're her husband. >> I am not. I am a partner. And that's what I want. I want >> Exactly. Amen. And that's the way she's got to view it, which means she steps up, puts her shoulder in the harness with you, and together we pull this.

This is two grown-ups. >> Yeah. And I And my my hunch is >> And then you can argue about what we spend on the shower. >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But my my hunch is from what he's saying and from what

we experience a lot on the show with callers when it comes to when it comes to money and marriage issues, 80% of it's usually a marriage issue or an individual issue. It's not just the math. >> Yeah. It's a communication thing. >> Yeah. So, you're probably going to start to if you keep digging in and you guys

keep getting to that level of conversation, it's going to start to reveal other things within the marriage and the relationship, which is great because this is the point of where a lot of couples separate everything and like this is just too hard. We're going to just do our own individual thing >> and that's where the disaster >> and that's a disaster, right? So even when it gets hard, continue to push in because those places of struggle and conflict, that's where intimacy is built and that's where you build a strong foundation of a great marriage is when you get through those conflicts.

So see it as a as a relationship building opportunity moment, Herman.

>> That was so sweet. >> Yes. Mhm. >> It's an opportunity to grow.

>> It is to deepen the relationship.

>> So we don't >> But I know you're annoyed. >> So we don't kill each other. >> I hear that.

[Music]

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[Music]

Sarah is in Georgia. Hi Sarah. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Good afternoon. I'm a landlord and I have a and I've had a tenant for a couple of years with no real issues until now. According to the lease, she's supposed to report any maintenance problems to me so I can take care of them. But today, out of the blue, I got a call at work from a plumbing company saying they fixed a water issue at the rental back in January and that the $650

bill had never been paid. This was the first I had even heard there was a problem.

So I'm >> So they your tenant authorized a bill for you to pay without you agreeing to it. >> Yes. And it was a actually a pretty simple fix that my husband could have taken care of and not costed either of us much money. >> Have you called the tenant?

>> I have reached out to the tenant and her response was she just didn't want to bother me and she just hadn't had the money to pay the bill yet. But it's was in January.

>> And is the bill the work under her name?

No, >> it is. It is. >> Oh, it's under her name, but it's on her house. It's on Sarah's house.

>> Yeah. Plumber's not going to lean the tenant. The plumber's going to put a lean on Sarah's house, >> and it's January, 6 months overdue.

Um, so this is a sweet person who's not very smart.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> How long has you been your tenant?

>> Um, a little over two years.

>> Okay. >> And I mean, I've never had any issues with her. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How much is the rent?

Um it's uh $1250 a month.

>> And how much do you have in deposit?

>> Um one month's rent.

>> Okay. >> And how much is the bill? >> 650. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm going to pay it because you're going to have a problem if you don't. Um but I'm also going to have a um a sit

down with the tenant probably in person

and and really clearly explain cuz this lady's not bright. And you're going to have to be real clear. You don't have to be mean, but you need to be blunt.

>> Okay? Like, this is $650 that I would

not have had to pay if you had picked up the phone and called me. Don't you ever do this again. If you do, you won't be

living here. That kind of clear. Oh,

that's exactly how your husband would handle it because that's how I trained him right there. >> Well, I know. Let me >> So, if I mean, he's handling my rental property right now. So if there somebody does something because you need to be clear because this is a dumb butt thing who does this.

>> She may not know. >> I know she's not bright. So you're going to have to tell her real clear because she's not going to get it otherwise. And you know Sarah, you're not going you're probably not going to be as as nasty as I am.

I'm not trying to be mean as kind, right? >> I'm not trying to be mean, but I do want this to I want it to activate a little bit of emotion in the tenants so that they don't do it again. >> Yes. And then you need to pay the bill

to me because I'm going to go ahead and pay it. And if you don't, it's I'm

considering an additional rent. And if you don't, we're going to have another problem. So, you need to get me paid.

Now, how can you get me paid back? You want to pay half of it a month until for the next two months on top of your rent?

I'll work with you on that. I'll try to help you. But, but listen, my husband usually does these repairs and it wouldn't have cost us $650. would cost me $14 in parts from Home Depot and my husband's sweat.

And that's what that's the way we do it, darling. And so next time you have a problem, you do you're not bothering me.

This bothers me. That won't bother me.

So, you know, and just you can be go and I know you meant well. That's fine.

That's all good. But we need to draw a line and go, this doesn't happen again cuz I'm not worried about this bill cuz worst case she never pays it, you take it out of her deposit when she leaves. Right. >> Right. You're not going you're not going to be out of pocket. But um but I I'm

trying to keep it from happening again cuz what's the next one? She has a septic tank replaced at $6,000. I mean my god, what is it? Where's this woman?

This is like you know that people do stuff. I'm So yeah, this is welcome to landlording. Yeah, I would. But you want to be very very clear. You're in Georgia. I'm in Tennessee. I learned

with team members many years ago that I was trying to be nice, southern passive aggressive sweet tea.

And in the name of all of that, I wasn't being clear and um I was getting

frustrated and they didn't know because I was being so indirect and working

around the edges. And now we have a saying around Ramsey when it comes to communicating internally. To be unclear is to be unkind.

So, you want to be kind to her by being very clear with her because if this comes up again, it's going to be a real problem, isn't it, Sarah?

>> Absolutely. I mean, I'm very I mean, it's very aggravating to get Sarah's piss. >> She'll have some piss and vinegar in it. I think I can hear it from you, Sarah.

>> Okay. I'm just giving you permission as a as a fellow landlord to be very clear.

You don't have to be mean. That's not what I'm saying. But that that's not what we're saying. But we are saying I it's more mean for this lady to not get the message. She needs to get the mail.

She needs to open the email, read it.

It's only it's not an email. It's in person. And then I would follow it up with an email or a letter that said, you know, this has happened and we understand this time, but this is not to happen again. All future repairs need to be cleared with us before they are done.

>> Yeah. And then if you wrote the email, the next paragraph be like, or I'm kicking you out. I'm evicting you. This

is what you said your first response was like >> I'm so man I got just this is >> I know you don't have a lot of patience.

>> Um >> no it just it >> I hear you though. I hear you. >> Yeah. You need to understand there's consequences. This is not how we're going to do this deal. >> Y >> and we're not going to operate this way.

>> Rochester, New York. Jeff's on the phone. Hey Jeff, what's up?

>> Hi Dave. Uh thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can I help? Uh, so I recently

stumbled across your show. I've watched your Baby Steps Explained a couple of times and uh it's got me on fire to really nail down my finances. So, I'm on Baby Step Two. Uh, I've got a few uh I've got a few loans to pay off >> and I've got some savings. Uh, I'm thinking of taking those savings and wiping out those debts, moving on to baby step three. >> Awesome. Uh but my dad and my

mother-in-law both independently uh

suggested that I put the money towards my mortgage instead. And I take anything

you're married. >> Do do they do you work for them?

>> No, I I went to them for counsel. I just wanted to get their advice. >> Oh, okay. So, you ask them to to vote on

this. Okay.

>> Yes. Well, I mean, you've got to decide what you think is wise, what they said or what we say.

>> Okay. >> I think their advice is stupid.

>> I think they mean well. >> Yeah. >> But it's dumb. Okay. We have led more

people out of debt into millionaire net worth than any other organization operating in America today. And neither one of them work for me.

>> All right. So, I mean, it's this process works. In other words, it's a proven process. If you follow it all

the way through now, >> and you follow it in order, too. That's another thing is some people go out of order and all of it, and you're not going to see the progress as quickly.

>> Yeah. >> Jeeoff, if you paid off all of your debt today, how much of your income would you save per month that would not be going out in payments?

>> About $500 a month.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And how much is your debt total, Hunt?

uh 12 a.5,000.

>> Okay. All right. And so if you if you put um $1,000 away, you're going to put

12,000 back in one year. Agreed.

How much can you do how much can you put on your baby step three if you don't have any debt to build your emergency fund back up because you're using your savings to clear your debt?

>> How much how much a month can you put back into savings with no debt payments?

I'm thinking right around $1,000 a month. >> Okay. Yeah. I want you to crank that up to about 1,500 and um you know, get on beans and rice.

Rice and beans and let's get that emergency fund rebuilt. I need that for your sake. I want you to have What's your household income?

>> Uh about 75K.

>> Okay, cool. Yeah. How much you have? 20 grand set aside for emergencies.

Grandma's rainy day fund. And how much have you got in there today in savings?

Uh, right now I've got about 22 and a2.

>> Perfect. Okay. So, you're going to take it down to 10 >> by writing a check for 12 and a half.

Correct.

>> That's right. Yep. >> And then you got to raise it back up to 20. And if you do that at 1,500 a month, you're done in like 7 months. And that that would be my plan if I'm you.

>> Amen. >> And then get on through and let's get the investing going and start paying off the house and babys four, five, and six.

But um >> get that consumer debt cleared out, Jeeoff, from a mathematical and an emotional standpoint. When you have no payments, it frees you up.

>> Yeah. Now, the one vote that does count is your wife's. And so the two of you need to be in agreement on that before you move forward. But that's what we would tell both of you to do. So, and

again, your parents mean well, but their plan's dumb.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Harrison is in Atlanta. Hey Harrison, what's up?

>> Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve, man. How can I help? >> Amazing. So Dave, I'm trying to figure out my next move. Uh I have $34,000 in

student loans uh on one loan, another $12,000 on another student loan, and then a 17,000 car loan. Um and I'm, you

know, getting help. I'm also at the same time getting help with a down payment, and I was just hope and I'm hoping to buy a house soon. Um, so but the thing is I'm worried about, you know, all the costs that come with home ownership, you know, and with my debt. Um, and so I just want to ask, you know, should I hit pause on buying and focus on paying off this debt first? Um, and keep renting with my high rent rental um, in Atlanta.

Um, and if so, you know, how should I attack this debt? And, you know, what, you know, should be my force towards that? >> So, you're single.

>> Yes, sir. >> You're 24.

>> Uh, I'm 26. Pretty close. Okay, good guess. All right. Um, what do you make?

>> Uh, I make 130,000 a year.

>> Cool. What do you do?

>> Uh, medical device sales. >> Good for you. Good career. Nice. Well done. >> All right.

Um, cool. So, so you don't have to talk anybody into this but you.

>> Okay. And uh and and I think you already kind of you've got let me what I let me tell you what I think I heard coming out of your mouth and you tell me if I was right. Yes, sir. >> Yeah, I may be wrong. Okay, because I may have missed it, but I think I heard a lot of people in your life going buy house, buy house, buy house, buy house. Everybody's got to buy house. Buy house. Buy house. Crap, man. You make 130,000.

Buy house. Buy house. Buy house. >> You're wasting money on rents. >> You're throwing that money down a rat hole. Buy house. Buy house. And then I think you're fairly analytical dude and

you're a very detailed person and you started going, "Yeah, but if I take on

all those expenses and I've got all this this that doesn't feel right to you."

>> Correct. >> Did I read your mail or not?

>> No, I think that's 100% right. You know, I've just heard about, you know, horror stories of someone buying a house, you know, at this age and, you know, you have to replace a roof, water heater, you know, whatever it might be. And that kind of worries me with the debt that I'm currently in. >> Yeah, we have found that home ownership is a key to building wealth. It's one of

the two things that causes people to get their first $1 to5 million of net worth.

So, it's very important. So, we're big on you getting a house. However, when

you're broke like you are and you buy a house, >> Yes, sir. >> it will make you broker. That's why they call them brokers. And so, um yeah, it's

a mess. And you know, you got to have an

extra bedroom for Sally May.

>> Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

>> Yeah. So, if I'm you, I'm cleaning up the debt. >> And you The good news is 63,000, you make 130. If you don't have a life for a year, you could be debtree.

>> Yeah.

>> Now, that's going to be really hard. You're single in Atlanta making bank.

>> But I just put you in jail. Okay. I put you in the apartment jail. You can't do nothing. And you're not allowed to go out to eat. All you do is work and pay debt. >> You know what would make you sick, Harrison? Considering how analytical you are, if you go to ramiesolutions.com and pull up our investment calculator and just put in the amount of money you're paying towards your student loans and your car loan every month and instead if you had invested that at 26 to 65,

>> it will be I bet it'll be over $3 million >> five >> if you are paying yourself versus paying someone else. So that's the mindset you have to have that you're you're paying other people your income where you could be paying yourself that income for a down payment and or even investing long term. So >> have your income work for you not other people.

because there's no margin. And so paying off the consumer debt first and foremost, getting some money saved in an emergency fund, and then saving for that down payment, >> then the house is a blessing rather than a curse. When you move in broke, the house can be a curse.

>> That that makes total sense. And I guess my followup question to that is I do have a pretty solid like I mean for my age, a solid little fund going on at my

fund going on. >> So I have around $35,000.

>> Awesome. And and so my problem with it

is I don't know which to pay off first.

>> I'd pay off the $12,000 student loan, the $17,000 car.

>> Okay. >> Your two smallest debts and then then you're going to attack that other debt with a vengeance. Oh crap. Now you're out of debt in like four months, man.

>> Okay. >> You're going to be out of debt in no time. >> I should just You think I should just use the full emergency fund >> down to $1,000? I'm gonna send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover.

It's going to teach you the baby steps on steroids. Okay. And the baby steps are $1,000 saved as baby step one. Two is pay off all your debts except your home, smallest to largest in that order, only keeping $1,000 of nonretirement income.

We don't cash out retirement, but everything else goes on the debt. We clear the debt because, as Rachel said, your most powerful wealth buildinging tool is your income. And that investment calculator will make you puke if you don't do this. And so, go do it.

And so, knock this stuff out like your hair was on fire.

family and friends to think you've lost your mind.

>> Okay. >> Broke people will make fun of your wealth building plan.

>> Okay. Count on count on it. Because an

interesting thing, one of the things we studied when we studied 10,000 millionaires, one of the things they attribute to becoming a millionaire is they quit caring what other people thought.

>> That makes sense. Not that's definitely a problem of mine right now. It's a problem. It's a problem with me. It's a problem with every human that breathes. We all want affirmation. We all want to be liked. We all want people to think we're brilliant. But when broke people are making fun of your financial plan, it's like fat people making fun of your diet. Okay? I mean, come on.

>> So, you just got you got to think about it. That that's how we get at it. So, Rachel's exactly right. You get that debt paid off, build up that emergency fund, then save up a down payment. Dude, you're going to be there in two years.

>> It's going to be quick. You're going to be sitting in a nice home in two years making by then 160 cuz you're you're you're on an arc with this career of yours is not it's not going to get inflation raises. You're going to you're going to see 10 20 30% hits on this thing. So you're going to do great, man. >> But I like how self-aware you are, Harrison, because he said

I do care. But he says I I care about what people think. So it's a good notion to remember the ego hates this plan. The

ego wants to say, "I'm making $130,000 a

year and I'm 26 years old. Look at the restaurants I can go to, go out with my friends, the car I drive, where I live." Because he even mentioned it's an expensive rent where he is in Atlanta. Like, right? Like, every part of your lifestyle gets shut down. And so much of what we equate our success and who we are and what makes us feel good and inflates that ego in us is this. And so,

that's a good line. >> When you stop that, thank you. What' you say? Say >> I said that's a good line. >> Yeah, thank I'll take that compliment. Thanks, Dave. Uh, >> ego hates this plan. It does.

>> It does. >> So, Harrison is Yeah. So, be on guard of

that where your emotions are going to kind of spike in that that you're not going to want this. >> But I'm telling you, it is going to be it's going to release you from a lot because like you said though, >> when you don't care what people think >> when you're when you're doing busting through change, change is frustrating.

Yes. >> Learning by its nature is frustrating because you're doing and taking in things you didn't know before. And there's a a level of angst that goes with that. And it's real easy to get an

entitlement mentality and act like a four-year-old on the serial aisle and have a meltdown because I can't get Froot Loops. >> Yeah. Right. >> It's like, I deserve this.

I work so hard and you know, but you're 56 and you sound like you're four, you know, and it's like, I work so hard. Like we all don't work hard. I mean, give me a break. That's just whining.

Called the Wambulence. But you're you're exactly right. That that's a that's good. That's very good.

You're going to do this. I can tell, man. Hang on.

Make sure you get in gear and you call us back and tell us when you're debtree. You can do your debtree scream right here, man. >> It's awesome, Harrison. Good luck.

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Thanks for joining us, America. Cody's in Wisconsin. Hey, Cody. What's up?

>> How are you? Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

So, quick question, make a long story short. Um, about a year ago, my mother

passed away due to cancer. I have two sisters, older sister, and me and my

middle sister, we we knew that the oldest sister was going to be left out of the will. My oldest sister unfortunately kind of stepped away from the family.

And the day of the services, my oldest sister found out from a will that she

had located that uh she would not be receiving any inheritance.

Needless to say, um things have been tight with the or tough with the family.

We haven't spoke for a while. I'm feeling guilt that, you know, maybe some of my inheritance to bring the family back together. I should give that up.

And I'm not talking a significant amount of money. It's probably $50,000 $60,000

worth of liquid funds and maybe $100,000 of investments were my share. You know, very significant. Something that that my family can use and benefit from, but uh I just wanted to kind of get an outside perspective on what your thoughts might be for this situation.

>> Wow, >> that's painful. I'm sorry.

>> Uh well, your mother should have handled this when she was alive.

and I had that conversation and I begged her to please put a letter in writing so that she understands why. But uh things happened faster than we anticipated and that ne was never written.

>> Yeah. But she had not spoken to your your older sister not spoken to your mom in several years apparently.

>> It's it was a while and she was in >> Well, how long was a while? talk.

Um, they small talked, but uh, she would

never help out with any doctor's appointments, medical issues, problems,

and there was certainly some some

problems that they had between the two of them that they never sat down and talked. But it was she would probably been away from the family for maybe 10 years. Cody, what what was your mom's reason to keep her out because there just wasn't a relationship there?

>> Correct. Um there Yeah, there wasn't a

relationship. My father passed away from a stroke. They we kind of got back together. The family was on terms. my sister moved into my mother's house in the winter time as my mother snowbirded into uh down to Texas once my sister

realized that the house wasn't going to be given to her because my mom needed to move somewhere smaller and then we we she wasn't involved again for numerous years until my mom passed.

So, I understand the olive branch you're wanting to extend, but I'm going to be honest that it feels like she's coming back into the family not out of a relational desire. She has to be paid to

get back into the family, right? Like that feels weird to me.

>> And I I agree. That's just something I don't necessarily want to admit to, but that's certainly something on the back of my mind. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because if I'm if I'm hurt and I want a relationship with my siblings, >> then there's not then you call up and have a relationship. to be motivated by anyone who's got any I mean this is a fairly cut and dry deal. You didn't do this. Your mom did this.

>> So if your sister wants to be angry with someone it would be with your mom. And so how can I reconcile someone else's

issues? I can only reconcile my issues.

So if I have offended someone, I can go to them if I want to and reach out an

olive branch, but I can't reach out an olive branch on behalf of someone else.

>> Mhm. Mhm. >> And that's it that doesn't that's not how this that's not how relationships work. And so you can't make her okay.

You can't make your older sister not be mad at your mom, >> right? >> No matter what you do because it's not your place. I mean, you don't have you're not in that position. only your mom could have done that. Only that they're the only ones that could have reconciled while your mom was still here. It's so sad. But >> it is. And I don't think any amount of money too is going to make her happy. I mean, it sounds like it's >> this lady's not Your oldest sister's just not a happy person either.

>> Right. >> Am I right or is that am I overstating that? >> No, I I don't think so.

>> Okay. All right. So I think it's a um

>> so I would I would go to her and say I would love a relationship with you. Like I like you know right if yours is >> I'd be happy to have coffee with her and say I completely understand that you're pissed at mom for cutting you out.

I completely understand that and I'm

sorry that that happened. And it wasn't because of me. I didn't tell her to. As a matter of fact, quite the opposite. I told her to write you a letter. I told her to tell you what she was doing and she didn't do it. And because it's hurtful and I'm so sorry for that and I just leave it at that. I mean, you can say the truth. The truth is you, you know, it may it's awkward. It makes you feel bad, but you didn't cause it.

>> So, no, I'm not writing anybody checks in this. >> No, the spirit, you know, emotionally.

>> Yeah. >> You know, even spiritually there you don't think that there's a no a reason or there is a no inheritance is not an entitlement.

You're not entitled to money just because you hit the DNA lottery.

>> And so, you know, any of you have a, you know, if your parents have money, any of you out there, you are not entitled to their money morally, spiritually, ethically, they can do with it what they want to do with it. It's called their money. >> They don't have to leave it to anyone.

The only thing I tell people all the time is if you're going to piss somebody off in the wheel, have the courage to do it while you're alive.

And that way they don't leave people like you in this.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And >> Cody, again, just to reiterate, no amount of money is going to mend a relationship. >> That's not that with your mom. She's in heaven. I mean, >> well, no, but but with the sister, like him wanting to give the sister money to to >> she's not suddenly going to be okay.

>> Yeah. That is not if that's all of it and she's not going to be okay. >> That's not what money's for, right? That it will not do that. It will >> doesn't have that power.

>> Yep. I agree. but an a a gesture of

saying of empathy saying I I get that

you're hurt. I would be hurt too. I

understand that and I'm sorry. I feel badly that you are in this situation. I didn't put you here but I I understand

that your heart is torn by this and I'm so sorry. >> And if you then give me some money. No, that's not that's not what this is about. This is about me telling you I understand that you're hurt. I didn't make these decisions and it it's it is it is somewhat unethical to not abide by someone's will, >> right? >> Because you know it it is my will that

you do so and so. And that's where the name will comes from. It's your it's what your mother wanted. It's what I want. It's my will. And so and so you

you know to not do what she wanted with her money is a bit unethical.

So um and and and >> you're trying to use it to mend a relationship. >> And to Rachel's point, which is really the core of the whole discussion is money won't do that. If the only way

money can build a relationship, I mean there's only one kind of relationship that money does and it's called prostitution. >> Oh my gosh. >> I mean that's it. There's only one thing that you you're buying love.

>> I was saying you know a gold digger you know >> you're buy well I mean similar version.

Yeah. But um but you know you're buying

relationship when and that's all. And what that is is it's not a real >> relationship. It's a counterfeit. >> Mhm. >> Uh because it's not based on reality.

And so >> and I'm going to give you full permission Cody too to have a discernment if you want relationship with her. Right. And if you do, extend that part of you. Um, but also don't

feel like you absolutely have to mend something right now because it does sound like, you know, there's a bit of a mess, too. But if you do feel that in

your own conscious that it would be good for you to have a conversation with her,

um, then do it. Absolutely. I >> I I would just be forewarned that I'm not part of the conversation is I'm not going to be guilt tripped.

I'm not going You're not going to transfer your anger from mom to me.

We're not going to >> I'm not going to be a punching bag for you. >> I'm not going to sit here and do that. I can I can empathize with you, but I don't have to get beat up by you.

>> And so, um I I don't need to do that either. And I don't know this lady's motus operenda. I don't know where she's coming from, but sometimes when you're trying to help men things where things are broken, there's a little transference. And so >> you get mad at the wrong thing.

>> Yeah. >> And um that could happen. And I don't I mean what do I know? But it could happen. So yeah, that's a good question.

Everyone needs a will. If you don't have your will, go to mamaabarillegalformms.com and get it done. 70% of Americans die without a

will. 70% of Americans are broke. I

wonder if there's a correlation. People that take care of money take care of money. People that take care of their family take care of their family.

There's a correlation. Get your stinking will done. All of you.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Live from the headquarters. ers of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsay Show

where we help people build wealth, do

work that they love, and create actual

amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour hit on the Ramsey Networks. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at8825-5225.

Melissa is in Las Vegas. Hi Melissa, how are you?

I'm doing good. Thanks for having me on the show. >> Sure. How can I help?

>> Um, so my previous marriage was very financially abusive. Um, I've been divorced for four years and was able to build myself back up, but I'm looking to get remarried in the next year or two.

And sharing finances just feels really scary. I know that's what you guys recommend, but uh, the jump back into that and sharing finances and doing all that feels scary. So, I wonder if you guys have any tips for me. Mhm.

>> It It should feel scary. I mean, that would be >> It'd be weird for you if it didn't.

>> You'd be a weirdo. >> I mean, you got you got stung.

>> You got stung. So, hanging out with bees should feel scary. Yeah.

>> I mean, yeah, that makes sense now. And

then I But let's go a step further.

Okay. >> Handling money is not a department

compartment.

It is woven into your spirit, your soul.

Where you spend your money says what you value says what you fear.

>> Yeah. >> How you handle money says what your value system is. And um so you lose the

ability to create an incredible amount of unity with the spouse by not sharing.

And um so what you know I I would go

slow enough that my wounds were healed enough that with evidence of high

communication and cooperation >> I could trust and not superimpose the other jerk onto the new guy. Okay.

>> Yeah. I'm I'm working hard to not do that. >> Yeah. That's a hard that's a hard one. That's a human nature thing and your self-awareness is a big deal on that. So congratulations. I think you're very wise, but I'll just go slow enough to say, in other words, if you can't share

your dreams and your fears through your money, you're not quite ready to do the marriage thing.

>> Yeah. >> Because you're going to share >> everything. >> Everything. You know, if you guys have kids together, I'm like, if I don't trust the spouse that I'm marrying enough with my money, how am I going to trust them to raise human beings with me?

You know what I mean? it's it's an indicator of their character and who they are. >> And if there's a pause on that, >> then then again, I think that that that's a red flag to be like, okay, but but again, your your pause may be coming from your wounds as you're self-aware enough to know. Um, but I think that's the that's the that's the important thing what you just said is >> I would coach him >> and and ask your pre-marriage counselor to do this.

And you got and you could say it out loud to him. Teach him this if you want to. I don't care.

decisions. B, everything is crystal

clear. There is no side deals anywhere.

We are doing everything together and all the cards are face up all the time

because she's got tender places and if you touch one of those areas by forgetting to tell her something,

>> she's going to translate that into you're a jerk and you've got to be super diligent on that. I'll give you an example in our situation that's similar. Okay. Um I

that that was me talking to me a minute ago. Okay? Because when we went broke,

my poor wife went through hell.

>> We had a brand new baby, a toddler, marriage hanging on by a thread. She would have left, but she didn't have a car. I mean, that's what we were doing, right? It was nasty. Water got cut off, lights got cut off. She lived not she wasn't afraid. She was in terror that we

were going to be homeless.

Okay, that's that's the wound that she has now. That was 35 years ago.

Mhm. >> But we still have an emergency fund for

the emergency fund.

And I don't even walk near the drawer where the emergency fund paperwork is kept. >> Dave still has life insurance on them because mom wants it just in case. Like

if Dave dies, mom is fine. You know, >> she's she's got several hundred million dollars in real estate, but she wants some insurance too, you know. And so it it's it's not even logical. But that is me being hyper vigilant to realize that

she has a the reality of a wound there

that she was that that terror can rise up. It can return even 35 years later.

>> Yeah. >> And that's that's your guy that's your guy's job here cuz he's got to look at Melissa and go, she's worth me being super careful and tender on this

subject. And would that Melissa for you

feel so would you just feel so loved?

Like would you that would just in my head >> that would raise him up even more of like you're an amazing guy. You know what I mean? Like there's a level of trust and care.

>> Um that's really beautiful and I think actually could be very flourishing for you guys in your relationship. That could be really one of the big things that actually unites you versus having to be divided, you know.

>> Yeah, absolutely. But but if you knew

every if you know everything that's going on and I will tell you this obviously >> with 35 years of positive track record there's a bazillion times more trust

>> in my competency and my integrity than there used to be with Sharon. Okay she I've regained that

but that is that scar is still there.

>> I've still got psychological scars from that experience. So, you will have that, but it'll get it'll get healed over and

uh there'll just be that, you know, that tender place where there used to be a scar. >> In your mar your previous marriage, Melissa, was there a specific thing with money? What was the actual situation? If you don't mind sharing, I'm just curious. >> Yeah. Um, so it was always my job to fix

the budget, but he would never change his spending habits. And then he would rack up tons of money on the credit card. Yeah. >> And blame me. Um, and then we refinanced

the house and we only put him on it, which caused a huge trouble in the divorce. >> Um, and he never wanted to save anything. He said, "We'll save money when we get out of debt," which we never did. >> Gotcha. >> Um, we left the marriage with debt. And so, >> have you said all of that?

>> Have you said all of that to fiance yet?

>> Um, not clearly. No.

>> Okay. Cuz I heard I heard real clear messages there. >> Yeah. You know you >> Melissa don't do debt. Melissa does savings. Melissa don't do hiding money.

>> That is very true. Yeah. >> I mean that's I got real messages out there. >> Now I have no debt. Like yeah >> I my financial life is is where I want it to be and I want it to stay that way once we get married. And so that >> Yeah. And this is not this is not about you being greedy. This is about not about you being greedy. This is about you not being harmed.

>> Yes.

Absolutely. >> Yeah. And that that's fair.

>> Yeah, >> that's fair. >> It should be that way anyway. But from where you're coming from, you guys have just got to be super clear and careful

to make sure all of these things are addressed. >> And I'm going to say, Melissa, if he's not on board on any of that, even if you can buy or not, I wouldn't do Yeah. I mean, like, that is a deep part of your story that that's not worth the gamble.

Even if you keep it separate, it won't be fun. >> It's not that's not fun. You're going to always be looking over your shoulder. You'll be looking over your shoulder looking for a bag. >> It's combine those values. It's the values you're looking for with the fiance. When your values are aligned, it is it is a beautiful life you guys create together.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[Music]

Buying or selling a home is a big deal.

And there's a lot of drama out there in the real estate world. Especially if you do something like Instagram or Tic Tac, you'll find all the drama. All the

fields are out there regarding real estate. But here's the truth. When you got all the drama going on, there's only one way to cut through it. Facts are your friends.

When you got facts, it kind of lets the air out of the drama. And we can help you with that. We've got a great US housing market trends page at

ramseyssolutions.com/market.

And so it'll have on there what is the facts on the actual inventory, the

actual median home price, how many days

on the market, what are prices doing,

what is interest rates doing, not what your broke friend with too many beers at

happy hours opinion is.

what's really going on with real estate.

We can help you with that. And it's good news. It's good news. I mean, there there's a lot of inventory, but there's also the median home prices are steadily increasing. Not very fast, not much, but a little bit. They're not going down.

House prices are not a bubble. They're not crashing and they're not going to.

There's a million 82,520 houses on the

market right now. It's the highest inventory since 2019.

And there's a demand that's higher than that. So demand is higher than supply.

Definition is prices will go up.

Interest rates drop and prices are going to go up quicker. So be ready for that.

That's going to happen because there's people sitting on the sidelines. They're all going to jump in there at once. And so uh as soon as they soon as the bell rings, they're going to go. And so this a great time to buy, by the way, for that reason. And you you get a little negotiating power because days on the market, you know, >> yeah, there's not 83 people lined up to buy one house over the weekend >> like there was. Y'all remember those days? That was 20 minutes ago, right?

>> And uh yeah, so right now there's actually only one person.

>> So you're actually having like this negotiation like the old days. And so it's a really excellent time to have a fair conversation about a fair price.

>> It's normalized. You've always said that about the market, the the not good of like how you know the everything skyrocket, all the craziness. You always said it just needs to nor the normal the normalization of the market is the best healthiest market. Not these crazy downs.

>> Frenzy is not good. It's not it's not good for the market long term. And we had that right after co y'all remember everybody came out of their houses looking for a new house like a Baptist with a casserole. I mean it was unbelievable.

So they were everywhere and uh it was crazy and drove prices straight up and you're getting these crazy offers and all that. So, we're in a pretty calm, it's almost almost kind of quiet, but it's a really excellent time. So, all of that to say, ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes and we'll help you with facts, ma'am. Just the facts.

Rachel's in Canada. Hi, Rachel.

>> Hello. I'm here with my husband, though.

Um, >> whoa, whoa, whoa. You're you're you're breaking up. I don't know if you're moving your phone in circles or what. Let's try again. Speak directly into your phone. Let's try one more time.

>> Okay. Um, I'm here with my husband and

we don't have retirement set up for me

ahead of me. I mean, we have a 13-year age difference. I will have social security. We do have assets. So, we have

a home renting um and the rental just

dried up. So, we've listed it for sale

>> and we did finally lose you. Okay, we'll try to get it reset, honey, when we can actually hear you. We're only hearing about every third word. We're trying to hold our breath and understand what you're saying. Rosy's in New York. Hey, Rosie. What's up?

>> No, you hit the wrong one. I'm just going crazy here. What am I trying to do? All right, let me try. I'm doing the right thing. There's Rosie. Hi, Rosie.

How are you? >> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can I help?

Um, my employer is offering a pre-tax

benefit for leasing a vehicle. Uh, so

would this affect the financial, you

know, advice comparison between leasing, financing, and buying a vehicle outright? >> No. Leasing a vehicle is financing a vehicle. You're signing the lease, right? >> Yes. >> No. Don't do that. No. No. No. No. No.

I'll take the money. Just give me the money and I'll go buy a car.

Even though the lease would be pre-tax and if I buy the car it will be post tax. >> Doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter. The the the deal is this. Leasing is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle mathematically.

It's a ripoff. The average cost of capital quote interest rate is 14.2%.

and and you're buying a new car and it goes down in value like a rock and all of the lost appreciation is built into the lease payment. You're financing something you cannot afford to buy and you're calling it smart because of some little quasi tax break. No, do not do

this. It's a bad deal for you, honey.

It's a bad deal. Everybody's trying to be sophisticated here and you're going to step in a bear trap with it. Don't do it. Simply pay cash for your car and if they want to give you some more money at work, I'll take it.

There's no 100% tax break.

>> Okay? So, the only way this works is if you get a 100% write off. Otherwise, you're trading dollars for quarters.

>> Mhm. >> You understand how that works?

>> No. What do you mean by there's no 100%.

>> When you have a $1,000 tax write off or you do something pre-tax $1,000, you don't save $1,000. You save a quarter.

You You save $250 in taxes.

>> Yeah. You save like 30%. Yes. Yeah. And so you're trading a dollar for 30 cents.

>> Bad trade >> for the extra you're paying on the lease is what you're saying. >> Yeah. Well, and you're and you're in the process in the name of sophistication or in the name of tax breaks or sophisticated tax breaks, if we want to put the two words together, you're you're doing a really dumb butt deal economically and mathematically just to get involved in the tax thing.

and and um you know 100% of the time

that you do something only because of the tax, it's a bad deal. You do the

smart things and get whatever tax break you can get on the smart things and you move on. >> That that that's the only thing you do.

And so I'll give you an example of that out there that's floating around right now into the big beautiful bill or whatever the flip they called it. They did away with the tax credits, not

deductions for the solar units on your

home. Oh yeah, >> at the end of the year. So a bunch of people are running out right now and financing solar units at 18% so they don't miss the tax break. Stupid.

Mathematically stupid. But it created

this false scenario because the end of the year it's over and now solar actually has to mathematically stand on its own without a false tax prop.

And so solar's actually got to cost less than real electricity or the regular electric, you know, it actually has to work now mathematically without a false government propup.

And uh but people are going, "Oh god, I can't miss the tax break." And they're spending more than the tax break because they can't afford to finance it. And and they're buying solar panels like they're like they're going out. Oh jeez. It's the same thing. We're motivated by the wrong thing when you're motivated by taxes. >> Same with people keeping their mortgage. sometimes. >> Yeah, it's a tax. Great example. Great example. 92% of the people this year in America will not take an itemized

deduction. They will do standard deductions. >> If you do not itemize on your tax return, you do not get the write off on your home.

The only way you get to write the mortgage off the mortgage interest rate on your home is you have to itemize.

Only 8% of Americans do that. But a

whole bunch of that 92 that aren't actually taking the write- off go, "Well, I'm keeping my mortgage because it's saving me all my No, it's not.

You're not itemizing.

That's just stupid." God, man. But it's just, you know what that that's internet theology is what it is. It's a problem. And people just You're exactly right. So, if you did actually do it, let's say you had a thou $10,000 in interest and you're in the

highest possible tax bracket, 37%. Okay.

And you wrote off 30. So So 300 or 3,000

bucks in tax in actual tax savings will

come from you having a $10,000

interest bill. So what people are saying then is these are the ones that actually do itemize is I'm going to send the

mortgage company 10,000 to keep from sending the government 3,000.

No, I need to say that again. I'm going to send the government 10 I'm going to send the mortgage company $10,000 to keep from sending the government 3,000 and I'm going to strut around like I'm smart when I traded a dollar for 30. No,

you're stupid.

That's it.

[Music]

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housing lender.

Mauricio is in New York. Hi, Mauricio.

How are you?

>> I'm good. Yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, here's my situation. I have a uh business and I have three other partners involved in it. And one partner really hasn't been pulling his weight for

probably two years out of the three that we've been open at this point. And we've already had talks and we've had all this other stuff and he doesn't seem he he promises he's going to do it. He doesn't do it. Ultimately, I I don't think I could work with him anymore. I don't trust him anymore. How can I go about going to the next step or what should that be?

Well, this is one of the reasons we say the only ship that won't sail is a partnership. Um the uh because very few

of them make it for this is one of the reasons they don't make it. Um I'm hoping and I'm betting not, but I'm hoping you guys have detailed partnership agreements.

>> We do. >> Okay. Does it not does it address

what happens if one of the partners isn't isn't falling in line with the other three?

How do you how do you remove someone?

How do you remove someone?

>> So, it's basically a buyout, uh, whatever those terms are in terms of money. So, basically what it was was you get you get, hey, here's 30-day notice.

>> You're not doing what you're supposed to do. You get 30 days to fix it. After the 30 days, basically, then you're out and whatever whatever the terms that we had.

>> And, do you have the money to write him the check that the document requires?

>> Yes. >> Okay. What are the other partners saying?

>> The same. >> Okay. >> They're done working with them. >> Okay. So, y'all are all in agreement.

>> Yeah. So, I I guess you just execute what the plan says, don't you? What what why would you not do that?

>> Sit down and say you have you know our document says that you have 30 days to to fix this to all three of our satisfaction. And so, you know, you've been sitting on your butt and we can't say you're sitting on your butt anymore.

We're done with it. And we don't think you're going to turn it. So, we'd rather you just not even work the 30 days and just take the check and go.

>> Right. The problem here here comes the kind of the the the the fly in the ointment, so to speak. >> Okay. I was waiting on I knew there was an addition. >> What? >> Right. There's always something. Right.

Last year, we did a lot more. And the terms are a percentage of year-toate revenue as your buyout. Right.

>> So, from last year to this year, we're about >> 60% down of what we were at the same time. So he wants to kind of drag this thing out as much as possible.

>> That'd be awesome because these bad numbers are going to be the ones you calculate on, >> right? But and that's why he's kind of like I think he should I get a lawyer involved like this is just enough.

>> So if you write him a check today, what is the check? Have you calculated it?

>> I would say probably right now probably close to like $20,000. That's it.

>> Oh jeez, man. Write the check.

>> Yeah. >> Get rid of the dude. I don't think he'll take it. That's the problem. >> He don't have a choice. And I don't want >> He don't have a choice. The formula's in the document.

>> And then what? I'd have to go to a lawyer after that. >> The formula is in the document. If he wants to argue with the document, he's going to lose in court. >> Right. But then I Right. I have to take him to court. That's what it >> No, you don't have to take him to court. He has to take you to court. You're throwing him out. I'm taking his keys and his computer >> by the terms of the day. off of all the like thank all that stuff.

>> Do what? Yeah. Take him off of everything. Yeah. If if we're going to be adversarial, then let's get to it.

But if we can be kind about this and go, "This thing just didn't work and you're going to wander off on your way with a $20,000 check." Then we can be kind and easy about this. But either way, he's got to be taken off of everything. Someone leaves Ramsay on good terms or bad terms, that day, their FOB no longer works to get in the building. Hello.

That's just normal stuff.

>> Partnership. I don't think they allow me to take him off on the bank stuff. That's what my concern is.

>> Why not? Of course you can. You've executed the document. >> Well, you're saying that he has to be he has to sign off is what you're saying on the bank stuff.

>> I I would assume so. As far as everything that we've done since >> No, you have you have partnership documents that show that you have removed him >> and he can take it to the bank. >> You take those down to the bank and you say, "Guys, you take him off this account or I'm closing I'm I'm pulling all the money out of this account and I'm going to another bank and open one with the three guys.

right? >> You're not going to hold me hostage over here. It's not happening.

>> So, you just got to tactically work through the different details. And >> you know, if he's got other stuff that's proprietary, you've got to get it out of his possession >> and you've got to shut down his passwords and stuff. >> I'm worried about >> passwords and stuff. So, you think you think this is going to go sour?

>> Oh, I know it is because he he's he's been spiteful up until now. So, a lot of the times it's like, hey, >> a great guy. Spiteful and lazy. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really great.

And the the the the problem is it's like listen, I I'm I'm welcome my third daughter into this life right now. I I can't have this guy hanging over my head if he's not going to pull his weight. And I don't want to make it tough because >> No, it's not it's not. Hey, I want you to change your pro pronouns. It's not I, it's we.

>> All three of us are sick of him.

>> Yes. No, you're right. >> We're done, dude. Here's your $20,000 check. And it's how here's how it's calculated. >> How many conversations have you guys had with him? a lot.

>> This would probably be the fifth one in two years. >> Yeah. And it's it's a character issue.

The guy's just lazy. He's a lazy hound dog in the sun on the front porch. He ain't getting up. >> But he's is he a good Well, he's spiteful, you said. I don't know. There's a book called Ideal Team Player.

And he could be what is it? The the lovable slacker.

>> There's like the the guy who I don't know. Yeah. He may not be lovable, though. So, that may not be him.

>> No. No. What you know what it is is it's also the position that he had or he has

is the fact that it's not really super important to the company and when asked to grow was when the problem started like hey you have to take on a little bit more responsibility like the rest of us had >> and he's like no I just want to stay in my lane and the problem is because of his lack of trying >> I I feel like it directly correlated to the fact that we went you know from >> over over a certain amount to less than what we had you Al. So, >> so if it were me in this situation, >> hours, you work in 10.

>> Okay. Yeah. You don't want to get into who shot anything. Okay.

When we've let someone go at Ramsay, >> it's a 10-minute conversation because there's been a bunch of conversations before that.

discussions. We've talked about the different issues. It's written down >> and now we're done. >> Documented. >> And so, it's um, hey, today's your last day here. I'm sorry this didn't work. We tried everything. you know that we love you and we want you to succeed somewhere else. And um we're as of right now, none

of your passwords or your computer doesn't work. We'll need to catch your cell phone and your pass and your computer. Um if you want to go to your desk and get your stuff, that's fine. But if you'd rather not do that walk of shame and come back tonight after hours, HR will meet you and you can just go to the car and go home and have the rest of the day and talk to your family and everything.

Tell them what happened. and we, you know, it's about a six-inute conversation and um that's where you are. So, >> yeah, but this guy's an I mean this it's a partner. So, the three of you sit down together in a room in person with the check in front of you and say and a document that says that this is our separation.

He gets the check. He turns over his stuff and we're sorry it didn't work, dude. We thought when we started this it was going to be a good thing and it hadn't worked out. We tried. We talked about it and this is the end of it. This

is your last day here. Well, I don't care. I I'm going to get a lawyer. I know. But you can do whatever you want to do, but this is your last day here.

Well, I'm going to be pissed. I'm sorry, but this is your last day here. Well, I I'm sorry. I'm going to cry and I want to start again. And let's give me one more chance. I'm sorry, but this is your last day here.

>> The decision has been made. The decision has been made without >> right. Can we continue working? If he wants to get lawyers involved and all that stuff, we can continue on. We don't have to stop to wait for anything. Right. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. You don't wait on anything. You just you you you go on as if he left the building happy and then you just got this side issue that's going to burn some calories and some money called defending your position.

>> But it should be an openandsh case based on what you're telling me. I'm not an attorney, but you're telling me the document clearly gives you the right to let this guy go.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. That that's how we signed off on it. All four of us.

>> So, >> and there is a clear formula on how the payout is done. And here's another thing. Here's a cool thing. All right.

Let's say let's say you run the calculation. It's $22,422.

Okay? >> Right? >> Make it 25.

>> Yeah. >> Be generous. Okay? And go, listen, there's a little bit more on here. And just just because here's the actual calculation. Here's what you're due.

We're going to put a little mayonnaise on here on the bun. And this is your last day here.

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Heat. Heat. N.

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Today's question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi? If your private

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Not in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Olivia in North Carolina. She said, "My husband and I earn close to $500,000 a year with

no debt except for our home. The mortgage payment is $2,500 a month. We max out all of our retirement accounts.

kids college funds are on track. We have expendable money every month that we find ourselves spending on silly purchases. For me, it's purses. For my husband, it's electronics. We don't live in a mansion and we can afford all these items, but we do recognize it's a waste of money and frankly, they can just create clutter. Neither of us are enjoy

eating out or traveling and we are very content with our lives. How do we stop wasting money on silly material purchases even if we can afford them and

we're doing all the right things already? That's a great question,

Olivia. Yeah, I mean I think understanding why you're buying these things in the first place. What is it?

Just because you just feel like we just have the money, so we're we need to enjoy and spend it and that's that's the motivation. Is it uh because you're bored and you need excitement? Right? So finding that motivation of why you're making the purchases in the first place will help you determine and set some values around extra money that you have.

And I mean I would I didn't hear any giving in this equation, Olivia. Maybe you guys are, but I would probably up your giving. Uh, it's amazing what you could do if you could find, you know, people in your lives, a single mom or

someone who's working the baby steps and giving, you know, a $500 spa gift card

to the wife or, you know, giving them gift cards to go out to eat. Like, spend the money in the way of giving while

also enjoying it. But I wonder the fulfillment on that end is so much greater than just buying stuff to buy it. So enjoy some of it, but I would be upping your giving because I think that's going to bring you a longer term level of contentment down the down the road. >> The word I heard in the whole thing was clutter and um which meant it's not

satisfying.

You know, I'm not I I do this and then it's not satisfying. There's just regret. It feels like a financial hangover after I do it. So, I would pick up uh our friends uh Joshua and the gang at the minimalists.

Why don't you start watching some of their videos and uh check out some of their books? They've got a couple of documentaries on Netflix. And um the

minimalist, the idea is is that we don't need as much stuff. And not that stuff is evil, but that just collecting stuff for the sake of collecting stuff is ridiculous. And that's kind of what she's saying in a sense here. So, that's one thing I would do. The second thing I would do is you guys need a written budget. You're not living on a budget.

And uh a budget is simply being intentional with every dollar. It you don't need a budget is not a chokeold for people that are broke. A budget's you're telling your money what to do.

That's all it is. And if you have a line item that has a certain a dollar amount in it for these types of purchases, then

you don't go over that. And you set that and you go, "Okay, you could set it high when you start and you go, well, that's that's still too much. I don't I think we're buying too much crap." Mhm. >> And then you could lower the amount, but you can set an amount in the cool of the evening when the two of you are sane and

you're sitting at the kitchen table, then when the insanity kicks in later, whatever this weird motivation is is driving all of this, then you can look down and go, "Wait a minute. The uh calm, logical me told the crazy me not to do this." >> Yeah. >> And that's what the budget is. It's telling you what to do when you were and you told you what to do, your future self not to do this.

>> Yeah. And I think it's a good practice maybe for you guys and it sounds kind of extreme, but what if like for one month you said, you know what, we're not going to we're not going to buy we don't need to buy stuff for one month. >> No spin. No spin.

>> Yeah. And no spend month and just practice it.

want this and this and I have money. I have $2. Can we go to Target? Can we please go to Target so I can spend my $2?" And it was just I mean they were just like these ankle bartered conversations constantly and I was like, "You know what?

We're not spending money this summer, you guys." I want I did but the kids you're not spending money and whatever you have at the end of the summer we'll double it. We'll match you for what you have at the end of the summer but you're not spending.

It was a little less than a week because they would ask and ask and then they they stopped asking and they just were content with what they had. But you kind of have to put in this practice even as adults. I mean I do this sometimes to myself where I'm like I'm just buying Amazon stuff and I don't need to buy it. I don't need another box of earrings. Right? like it just kind of gets to this point even even if you can afford it.

There's something about practicing that contentment of just kind of just shutting everything off and not forever >> but just to get a baseline back to a level of just I don't know that contentment and that steadiness.

>> Yeah. >> So maybe that's what you guys do. Do something extreme for one month and see what happens. >> That's fun. I like that. Jaylen is in Toledo. Hi Jaylen. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

Uh so the reason I'm calling is is I'm having a hard time uh building my savings with a fluctuating income.

>> How what's your total income?

>> Uh so I've got two separate I've got a primary and a secondary source of income. So I'm a actually a uh 100% TNT

disabled veteran. Um so I get about

48.5K a year non-t taxable.

>> Uh and then my secondary income is I'm a live streamer. on um a live streaming platform and I bring roughly about $2,000 a month um from that.

>> Okay. All right.

>> It's about 6,000 a monthish you're bringing in. >> Just about there. Yeah. >> Okay. So, what's irregular? Just the the variation in the 2000.

>> Um Yes. The variation in in the in the 2000. >> Yeah. So, what's your do you have months you get zero on that?

>> I'm sorry. Do you ever have a zero month on that?

>> Um, a zero month. What do you mean by that? >> On the streaming, do you ever have a month you make zero?

>> Oh, no. Absolutely not. So, >> what's your worst month streaming?

>> Uh, my worst month streaming this month is actually I can pull that up for you.

Um, my worst month streaming was 2,00

No, sorry, $1,885.

The most I made was 7,200.

>> Okay. All right. And the average is

2,000.

>> Yes, sir. >> Wow. So that 7200 was a mammoth month.

>> Uh it was for my birthday. So I I did like a special event for my birthday and I don't have that money anymore. I got married about a little over a month ago.

So all that money went towards the uh the service and everything.

>> Okay. Congratulations. What does she make? >> Thank you. >> Uh she makes about 30k a year. She's a

data analyst. >> Mhm. Okay. So your household budget is around 9 or you guys are bringing in on average 9,000. Do you know how much your monthly expenses are to run the household entirely? Insuranceances, rent, mortgage, electricity, water, clothes, everything. Do you know?

>> Um I I know a few of those. So my mortgage just recently got lowered from just total of what it takes to operate >> to run your household. How much would it cost a month? >> The whole thing? >> Um probably around maybe 2500 I'd say.

>> Okay. So, your number one problem, Jaylen, is you don't know what your expenses are.

>> Mhm. >> So, so that's what I would do. I would do a very, very detailed budget tonight with your newlywed wife. It's going to be very romantic and very wonderful.

Sit down. You're going to do a budget and you guys are going to look at the line item. We'll give you Every Dollar premium. And it connects to your bank, but you guys sit down with that app and fill it out.

And if there's categories in there that are that are part of your life that are not in the Every Dollar app, add them. There's areas that you can add, go through, do a very detailed budget, and you need that total of how much it's going to cost.

household. Well, then that's great. That means, you know, you guys have $6,000 of margin, which is amazing. So, there there's some savings. I mean, that would be incredible. >> So, your premise that you're having a hard time budgeting because you have a fluctuating income is false. And the reason it's false is a very small percentage of your income is actually fluctuating like almost none of it. Okay? And so

because you've got her 2500, you got your disability and then you've got a baseline of probably close to 2,000 on the streaming that's every month. And so the only volatility is what above 2,000 that you're going to make and what to do with that. That's your only volatility.

And that's not keeping you from laying out a plan like Rachel's saying. So, you've got to sit down and do the discipline of spending your money on paper on the app before the month begins. And when you give every dollar an assignment before the month begins, as Rachel said, um then if you get a windfall and you have a you have a $6,000 month instead of a $2,000 month, you quickly will know what to do with that other $4,000 because you'll have already laid out a game plan for everything else.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us, America.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Jessica's in Illinois. Hi Jessica, how are you? >> I'm good. How are you guys? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. >> Um well, I was just calling, I guess, um with a question. So, my um husband um

passed away unexpectedly earlier this year. >> Um we're both um in our upper 30s.

>> I'm sorry. What happened?

>> Um he had a heart attack.

>> Wow. In his 30s.

>> In his 30s. >> How long y'all been married?

>> Um we've been married just shy of two years when he passed. >> Oh my. I'm so sorry. Yep.

>> Thank you. Um, so I guess I'm just calling um with I guess looking for advice, looking, you know, morally

just to see if the angle that I'm looking at is the right angle. Um, we had talked about previous um to getting married or engaged pre um after getting married um in regards to changing our beneficiaries on everything. Um we were very set um I guess intellectually like

with um on our morals and values and

what we wanted in life, our future goals. Um we are in the process of building a home that actually we just got the occupancy approval yesterday. Um I have um a daughter of my own as well prior to our marriage. But I guess what I'm looking for is um when we had discussed life insurance um and beneficiaries, we both agreed that we would update with everything that we had going on.

We were trying to have children of our own. Um like I said, building a home.

And I recently found out in going through my husband's estate that um his life insurance policy, he has a term life and then a supplemental. And um I found out his sister was the beneficiary on the term life still. So that had not been switched over um as we had discussed. So I am only getting um half of the life insurance. So now having to

finagle his estate um all the debt. So

he did have um assets prior to us being

married um that I am now um the heir of

his estate. So I take on all all debts including any credit card debt.

>> No no no no no. That's not true.

>> Only if you want the assets. Only if you want the assets. So, >> right. Yeah. Only if I want the assets. >> So, how how much in assets did he have?

>> Sure. So, he had um about $155,000

worth the assets of what's owed on the assets, I should say. >> That's the debt he had.

>> So, what is it? Like a rental property or something or what? >> Um nope. So he had um a decent size um

plot of land um and then a building on the land and then we also built our home on that land. >> Okay. >> As well, which the home is in my name and his but everything else is just in his name. >> So the the land the house is on a

different plat separated the parcels.

>> Got it. Okay. So the land it the rest of

the land that the house is not on was in his name and it is worth what?

Um, I'd say the land and the shop are probably worth um between 250 and

300,000. >> Okay. And and there's 155 owed on it.

>> Um there's um a little under 100 owed on

just the land. >> Oh, separate assets. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, you are correct. The land

>> the equity in the land stands good for his debt. You do not take on the debt unless you want to keep the land.

Yes. >> And so, and that's what you're saying.

You want to keep the land, so you're willing to take on the debt, but you don't get the debt automatically. When someone dies, what they own stands good for what they owe. Assets minus liabilities. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And so, let's pretend for everybody listening that that he had um assets of

30,000 and debts of a 100,000.

You would turn the assets loose. you're not going to take on these debts because you don't inherit debt in the United States.

>> Okay? >> Okay. You follow the difference? So, in other words, you're willing and I I think you're wise, you're willing, if you're able financially, to accept the 155,000 to get the 300.

>> Mhm. >> That that's a and it's adjacent to your new house, you know. So, all all of that. Okay. Now, then you're you were leading all to another question. So, how can we help? Um well I I guess I was just leading more or less to um to give

a little context in regards you know my husband and I have been together for five years in total.

>> Um our families both very close. I made

it in with his family immediately. They I fell in love with them. They fell in love with me and vice versa for my husband with my family. They no question

loved him. So my question is with my

sister and he for whatever reason didn't

change his life insurance policy over like we had discussed and now I'm only receiving half which is not enough to pay for our home. >> Okay. >> So now I'm being forced to sell our home I guess. So my question is is just looking for advice morally.

>> You know I I need to have conversations with her on how this has made me feel. It's emotionally draining. I'm going through probate. I >> you feel like she should give you the money? >> I >> Right. As his wife cuz it sounds selfish, but it's a life insurance policy. The purpose of it is so that >> Yeah. But your husband your husband didn't change the beneficiary. So it's not your sister-in-law's fault.

>> She didn't do anything wrong. And she does not have a moral obligation to do this. He had a moral obligation to fix it before he died, >> but she does not have a moral obligation to give you this money.

>> Um and it's not yours. you don't have any rights to it morally, ethically, certainly not legally. Um, if she wanted to give it to you because it was in the intent, then that would be a kind thing to do. And um but but she's not

obligated to. And I don't think you have a right to be mad at her if she doesn't.

>> Um >> No. And I understand that. I'm I guess I was just looking to see an outside perspective. >> Yeah. I mean, I I hear you, Jessica.

sucks that you know you your husband's life insurance is going to his sister and you're like oh my gosh but we have a life here. I mean that that's not fun.

>> I want to cry with you but I'm kind of mad at your dead husband. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> You know cuz he should have done this you know and and you are too really if you admit it but um I'm sorry. I mean but it's just that cuz it left you in a lurch. So now you're going to have to sell the whole kittens a boo.

>> Have you talked to the sister? I'm just curious if y'all had any level of conversation of like the obvious. I don't know. >> We've had conversations in regards to it because like I said, I was completely shocked by the

>> Well, um, she had asked for a death certificate and I was kind of shocked by it and I had asked, "What do you need it for?" And she just said, "Some time-sensitive paperwork." And so then I got gave the death certificate and then I just I said, "Can I just ask what it's like what you you would need it for, I guess." And she's just like, "Well, life insurance.

just verify that you are for sure before you go and send in for this and it gets paid out and you're really not cuz bas like I said based off my conversations with my husband >> and she said >> had changed everything around >> and what did she say?

>> She just said, "I'm sorry. I don't know all to say." >> Yeah. you're you're not getting this money, hun. So, um I'm so sorry. You're

gonna at least sell the piece of land.

You may be selling both things and restarting your life with what you have because you've been through a tragedy and a horrible situation. >> So, sorry. >> And the paperwork wasn't done properly.

Gosh, I'm so sorry.

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[Music] Are you staying on track with your baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. That's why we call it personalized. Simply head to the show notes, click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the free quiz. Did I mention it's free? All right. Atlanta's calling Karina. Hi, Karina. How are you?

>> Hello. Good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, yes sir. I wanted some advice on

what to do or um I have two teenagers. I

have a 16-year-old boy and a 19year-old.

And in regards to purchasing their own vehicle, I've heard you say before um

that you would have them save and you would match um but because we obviously

were not very good with our money before and I wanted to know if if it's okay.

We're in baby step three now. If it's okay to help them um purchase a vehicle

even though they're not going to put as much down or as much towards the vehicle

or is there any other way that they can have their skin in the game if we're able to purchase like a $3,000 car for

them? >> Well, do they have any money saved?

>> No. >> Okay. >> No, they do have they just started a job this week. Um, but it's part-time because they have school. >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. >> But no, they do not.

>> Okay. You're on baby step three, which means you worked your way out of debt.

And then you just asked me a question about putting your teenagers into debt.

That's inconsistent. >> Not I don't I don't want to put the not >> Well, you said I'm not down. You said down. >> I did, but >> there's no down unless there's alone. >> She doesn't mean She didn't mean alone, though. Did you? >> Correct. No. >> Yeah. I think she just meant them contributing money.

>> Car. >> What? Them contributing money. That's what she meant. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yes. >> What?

>> You misunderstood. >> Uh, no, I didn't. Okay.

>> She did. She did say down, but >> All right. The um uh um All right. So,

what's your household income, hun?

>> We're at 135.

>> Okay. All right. And so give me a scenario under which the 19-year-old would buy a car and how you would participate and how they would participate.

>> Tell me what that might look like.

>> Yes, sir. So I was what we had spoken

about is that um like the example you give that they

would save up like 2,000 and we would do the 2,000 and then find a $4,000 car, >> right? Um but um right now because they

need their a vehicle to move around and

we do have another vehicle in the household. I just don't know if um like

gifting it to them and then find another way how they can >> No. So they So you have three cars >> in the game. >> You have three cars, right?

>> I we have two cars.

>> Two cars.

>> What's the extra?

>> Oh, >> you don't have a vehicle for the teenagers. Do you have a car? Your husband has a car?

>> No, my husband drives a company vehicle.

>> So, >> and then I have I use one to go to work and then they're using the other one.

>> So, then they can share that. You don't have to give it to them, but they >> just share the use of it. It's your car >> and then save up the money and then when they have money saved, >> if they want their own car, they need to save some money and go get one.

>> Okay. >> But they can use yours. They can use your old car until they do.

>> Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

>> That's all you need to do. I at 16 and 19, it's too late to start any kind of a matching program. I would just tell them, "Kids, y'all can use this. As long as you're living here, but when you get ready to go out on your own, >> uh, you're going to need a car.

So, you need to start saving for a car. And if you want to not drive this car, you need to start saving for a car. And there will be no car payments while you live under my roof." >> Hey. >> Yes, they understand that.

>> I know. I just want to tell them again. Yeah. >> Okay.

So, Karina, I I would be okay with you still doing the matching program, you know? I mean, not until they're like 26 or something, but while they're still living in your home, if they work, if they're working and sharing that car and they save their own $2,000 and you and your husband have that to spare and you guys want to still match that, >> that's okay if you want to do that. You want to do that, but there's just not a lot of time. And so really, if a 19-year-old does this and they and they're living at home, they got no overhead, they got no rent, they got no food problem, then all they got to do is go make a big pile of money and stack cash.

>> Yes, sir. >> You know, and you can make enough he can make enough by Christmas to buy a car.

Hello.

>> Yes, sir. That that's our plan. That's our goal because we did have a conversation. I just didn't know because they were like older.

>> Yeah. If you want to help them a little bit that like Rachel said, some match that's okay. But uh uh yeah, some level of match is fine. And but but the good news is I'm really helping you.

You get to use this car for free. You get to live here for free. So you got no use for money except stacking it to buy a car. So stack it.

Don't spend it >> and go get you a car by Christmas. And you know, >> go, you know, hey, try you're 19, try working 40 hours a week.

>> You should be able to. You don't have any expenses. So, um, that that's but I'll if you want to put two more with it and help them get a seven, great. I'm I'm that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But the the you're right that the inconsistency with our story is that

that we started that when our kids were really young, that discussion. And so that matching thing has a whole different set of lessons to it that you don't get the benefit of the lessons here because it's just a short term. The lesson here is work hard, stack cash, buy something with cash. That's the lesson.

and and it's going to be a very short microwavable thing rather than a crock-pot thing. >> And that that's the the process. But yeah, and just, you know, because the culture and all of their friends are telling them to go get a car payment, don't be afraid to repeat yourself a lot that we don't do car payments for people that live in this house. >> But can a 16-year-old go get a car payment on their own?

what we do here and you 16 year olds

often times don't hear something the first time you say it. >> She said down early on and you have attached attached to that. >> I am just saying be real careful here. I

don't want anybody making assumptions. This is how this works and this is how it doesn't work. So that's the whole thing. That's what we're doing. All right. Mark's in Virginia. Hey Mark, what's up? >> Hey, I'm uh getting ready to retire.

>> Cool. >> And uh trying to figure out how to go

from a uh a saver mentality to a uh a

spender mentality. >> H how much what's your net worth?

>> Uh seven or eight, something like that.

>> Seven or eight dollars.

>> Million. >> Okay, good. I was hoping >> Dave likes to hear that word.

>> I was hoping. Good. Way to go, Mark.

>> Well done, Mark. Congratulations.

>> We did good. >> So, um, Sharon and I, most people who do

what you've done, you've probably started from nothing and you've worked your tail end off and you've saved like a maniac and that's how you got here. Congratulations. You're a success.

You're a stud. Well done. But what has h now what you've got to do is, as you said, you need to learn to enjoy money more than maybe you ever have. And you've got plenty of margin to do that because if your if your mutual funds are earning 12% 11% and you pull 10, you got

700,000 a year to do something with

without touching the nest egg. Okay? If

you if you if it all made if your portfolio averaged 10% on 7 million, you follow me? So you got a five $600,000 $700,000 income off of your investments

without messing up your investments. So Sharon and I have done two things to learn to develop to get past the emotional part of spending money cuz it feels weird when you spend money and you've been working so hard saving money which is your question. So two things we did.

One is we increase our generosity.

We're very intentional and look people in the eye like crazy tips crazy uh

catch somebody doing something right. just walk up and buy uh put a set of tires on somebody's car that you're looking at them and they look like they need some help at the gas station and let's go over there the discount tire.

I'm going to spend $1,000 put tires on your car and just start doing some weird stuff like that. Uh just pocket money random. >> I have I have been doing that and it feels really good. It does. I'll tell you what. >> The interesting thing is it's the same muscle. Generosity is the same muscle as a spending muscle.

>> Yeah. It loosens up the spending muscle if you're generous because it's the same thing because you're letting go of money in both cases where with saving you're holding on to money. Both of these are learning to hold with an open hand. The second thing we've learned to do is we just have the burn the money in the middle of the floor question.

If we're going to if you buy something for $70,000 and you burnt that money in the middle of the floor, would it change your life? Not a nickel. Nothing would change.

antique car that you've always wanted, whoopty-d doesn't change anything. Now,

if you go spend 800,000, you could you could put a dent in this thing. That'd be a problem.

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

The money and marriage getaway here on the Ramsey campus is a hugely popular

event. It sells out every time we do it.

Dr. Dr. John Deloney and Rachel Cruz here with me uh are the hosts and uh it's a weekend long event at our Ramsey Event Center here on our campus and it is incredible. It's lifech changing. Uh

they get into the details. I can tell you that. Tickets start at $7.49 a couple. The next one is in November and then we're doing one on in February around Valentine's Day, February 12th through 14.

So you can get your tickets for the lowest price before they end at ramseyolutions.comgetaway or click the link in the show notes. And Rachel, this thing is um with you and John doing it to start with. People need to know that's like standup comedy. It's going to be really funny.

>> So well, we do dive into the two topics.

Yeah. In a lot of depth. I talk obviously about the money side and how do you do this as a couple? What does that look like?

because there's so many different angles and approaches and topics around that. And then John dives into the marriage portion. And so it is uh yeah, it's a really fun weekend and it and it's a very impactful weekend because we want you to come and leave not just overwhelmed with, oh gosh, I have so many things to do, but really a a plan and an awareness in your marriage that you may have not have had. So that's our hope for you.

>> Yeah. Some inspiration. Yeah. To do something even bigger and better.

It's very cool. the money and marriage weekend again, November and February.

they sell out every time and so if you want your tickets, jump in there right now and get them done. Andrews in Florida. Hi Andrew. Welcome to the show.

>> How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um so I have a I got a a truck pay. I'm

21. Um I got a truck I financed uh

25,000 with a 23.8% interest. I know I'm

down for that. >> God. Uh, and uh, I owe 21,86 on it right

now and I paid on it for two years and I

can't refinance it because at the time of I got the first the truck the truck loan, I had a car loan out and that car got totaled and GAP didn't pay for it all. So, I paid it out. I have a letter from the finance company saying it's a paid off, but they put a repo on my credit and they won't take it off and I'm like $10,000 upside down on my truck and I just don't know how to get out of it. >> Who who said the truck's worth 12?

>> Uh the dealerships and Kelly Blue Book.

>> Well, dealerships buy it wholesale, honey. So, you you looked at Kelly Blue Book for what? You can private sale it or what a wholesale is?

>> Uh private sale. I have it posted right now for 15,000 and I was just going to use use money use my own money to pay

off the rest. >> No, not really. My fiance does. She's going to help me out. >> No, no, you don't you don't take money from somebody you're not married to, honey. That's another bad plan. You're going from one bad idea to another. Um >> Yes, sir. >> So, you don't have any money. You personally?

>> No, sir. >> Okay. >> Do you work Andrew?

>> Uh yes. So, I'm a electrician apprentice, but I just broke my foot. So, I'm waiting on that to heal before I can go back. I'm in a real tough spot.

>> How much How much do you make a year when you're working full-time?

>> Uh, in between, I'm going say 30 to

50,000 a year. It depends on the job and where I'm at with >> Okay. >> Yeah. When will you be back to work?

>> Uh, I'm not sure. I got to see I got a doctor's appointment tomorrow to go over my x-rays. Okay. And >> how long ago did you break it?

>> Uh about a month ago. >> Okay. So you'll be back pretty quick unless you really >> you in a boot or like a scooter thing.

>> I'm in an aircast boot. So yeah, this construction sites don't like you on the job site. >> Okay. And when are you guys getting married?

>> Uh we were hoping for December. Um but

we might have to postpone.

>> Why?

>> Uh financial reasons and just some stuff between us. want to be ready.

>> Okay. Um, well, I would not take money from her until you guys are officially married. And so, it would be you doing this all on your own. And have you gotten any any interest with it listed

at 15?

>> Uh, no, not really. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, that that's going to be your best bet and to be saving up some money because you're right. I mean, I doubt you'll be able to get a loan for the difference. That's usually what we say when it's upside down, but with your credit and having a repo, it may be tough to get a small loan, but that would be >> Mhm. >> What can you do right now while your foot's in the boot to make some money?

>> Uh, I've uh I know a guy, he owns his

own company, and he's uh starting another branch doing RV repair, but it's still very new. So, he's just paying me, I think, $16 an hour to watch YouTube videos to learn. So, I have some type of income. Um, but it's not it's not

everything I need right now.

>> Why is he paying you to learn to work on RVs if you intend to go back to being an electrician?

>> Uh, cuz he's really trying to just help me out. He we go to church together and he sees I'm in a tough spot. So, uh, and I I just like learning everything I can.

>> Yeah. And how many hours a week are you getting paid to do this right now?

>> Uh, right around 40.

>> Wow.

Okay. >> That's a bright spot. And >> yeah, he's a he's a very generous man.

Okay. >> Yes, sir. It is. >> Um being very kind to you. Yeah. So, what I'm going to do if if I'm in your shoes is exactly what Rachel said. Um if

we can't solve the issues that are keeping you from getting married and and

advance the um marriage date, um I I

would not wait to get married based on financial problems. I would wait to get married if there's other problems. And I you mentioned two things. So, um, but you don't need to save up and have a wedding. You're two broke children. You don't have any money. You're 21. You got no money. So, you don't need to wait two years and save up $20,000 to have a wedding. Just go get married for goodness sakes. People do that all the time. And 40 years later, they tell the story. And so, um, uh, you know that.

But if you've got if there are relational issues that you need to solve, then do solve those. I'm not telling you to rush into something that doesn't look good. >> Uh but if you go get married, then that solves the problem because you've got the money then to cover this. And I wouldn't marry her just for that reason.

But don't take money from somebody you're not married to. It's going to put a strain on a relationship. And if there's already problems, it's going to make it worse because the borrower is slave to the lender, even your girlfriend, every time. That's the way that works.

100% chance that it changes the relationship when you borrow money from somebody every time. So, don't borrow money. Now, if the relational issues are minor and you're waiting on some kind of weird financial thing, put that to the side.

Go ahead and get married. If the relationship issues are a reason to wait, then Rachel's right. I would tell you to wait. If that is not the case, then what you've got to do is do nothing but work all the time until you get

enough money to get out of this ridiculous truck deal. 25% interest and

$25,000 for a 21-year-old. Whoever sold you that should be beat with a stick. That's just

immoral.

It's just thievery. They just completely

saw you coming and screwed you. But we

can't do anything about it now except learn our lesson and never go back on

the property where you bought that truck the rest of your life. Those are not

good people. Get away from them. Stay away from them. And then let's get this stinking thing paid down and get it sold.

Get you a $3,000 truck and get your life back because this thing owns you right now. Man, I'm sorry. I've been trapped. I've felt that way.

That's why I'm kind of angry right now for you because I know how you feel. And uh you can get there. But that's our guidelines. Uh get you some money and get out of this truck and or get married and get out of this truck.

Get this thing sold, dude. >> Yeah. >> And >> I mean on some years this is costing half of his annual income. I mean it's >> God almighty.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's just a it's just >> No, more than that. I mean if he's making 30 some years.

Yeah. So you feel it though, Andrew. And it's a good listen. I mean, learn.

>> The good news is you never have to do it again the rest of your whole life. This is one lesson you have learned. And so with me, I do stupid stuff all the time, but my goal is just to not do the same stupid stuff.

And that that this one's on this is this is on your list. This is look at what I did when I was 21. I did this stupid thing and I'll never do it again. And you got the whole rest of your life to live with that lesson and be smart and and not let somebody ever tattoo you again on a car deal. Oh my gosh.

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Our

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scripture of the day, Deuteronomy 7:9.

Know therefore that the Lord your God is God. He is the faithful God, keeping his

covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments. Ronald Reagan said, "I've wondered at times about what the Ten Commandments would look like if Moses had run them through the US Congress."

Reagan. Oh man. Jake is in Washington

DC. Hey Jake, what's up?

Hey, how's it going Ramsey crew? How's it going today? >> Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? >> Hey, so uh I'm getting married in 18

days and me and my fiance were in incredibly blessed situation and we're wondering what to do with all of our inherited money that we have and you know how to uh be responsible with it and how to um you know, just give back to the community and make a positive impact on the world. So, >> phenomenal. So, who's inheriting money?

You or her? >> Uh, we've both already inherited it.

>> Oh, okay. How much did she inherit?

>> Uh, she inherited close to um 4.5

million and I inherited close to uh

300,000.

>> Oh, a little different. Okay, cool.

>> Where did hers come from?

Um hers came from um hers came from her

grand both of ours actually came from our grandparents. They just worked extremely hard and um >> made sure to stash away a lot of money.

A lot of it's in trust and in the stock market so um yeah that's how they passed it over to us. >> Wow. >> How old are you two?

>> Uh we're both 27.

>> Okay, cool. What do you do for a living?

Uh, I work as a technology consultant

for big four.

>> What about her? >> And she's a lobbyist in DC.

>> Okay. First thing I would do is establish a sustainable life on your income without touching the money.

>> 100%. >> Okay. That you don't need this money to live on and don't become dependent upon it. That makes you a trust fund baby.

You're not that. Okay. You're both you're both f gainfully employed. You have great careers. You're obviously professionals. Congratulations. And all of that happened um out of your grandparents inheritance as well. You inherited their character, their work ethic, their smarts, and all of those things, not counting their money. And so, let's honor that by creating a sustainable life where the two of you build wealth independent of this 4.3 and

this 300k. That's thing one. Thing two

is you need to lay out a very clear

detailed itinerary or or schedule of what we're going to do with this money and both of you be in agreement with it. Because where people mess up is when they if you spend it in your head or you invest it in your head, you'll end up doing about $8 million worth and you've only got four million.

So if you lay it out line by line by line by line and there are only three buckets that these lines can land in.

The spending bucket which is okay to

spend some wisely and carefully. The

investing bucket obviously wisely and

carefully and slowly.

And the generosity bucket you mentioned giving to the community. Okay. And so I'm going to allocate portions of this

$4.6 million to those three buckets

and say, "Okay, we are we're going to live on this income, but we are going to use 300,000 or 800,000 of it to buy a house, >> okay% >> or something like that. But we're going to live on our income. All right? And that pay cash for a house at 27 years old. That's a good investment." So or whatever the number is. But it doesn't need to be a $4 million house. That doesn't make sense in your situation.

But we're going to lay down this is how much we're going to put on this. This is how much we're going to put on. This is how much we're going to give and we're going to do an annualized giving of this off of the income that this money creates. And then we're going to look at the investments that are currently there that you said the money's invested in trust in the stock market in some way or I want to learn about that.

I want to know what it's in. And and you need to make clear careful decisions about what the money is sitting in.

We're not moving it to freaking Bitcoin.

Okay, we're going to be boring. Your grandparents were boring and steady and

it worked. And it worked.

>> So follow their lead. And then the last thing, the la the third guideline I'll give you. So guideline one is create sustainable life without the money. Guideline two is lay everything out line by line in those three buckets. generosity, spending and or enjoying money, whatever we want to call that, and investing money line

item. Then the third thing to remember

is um that you don't put money in stuff

you don't understand.

So you don't invest because your friend said to. We're not trying to get rich quick. We're trying to be the tortoise, not the hair. That's what grandpa did.

And a good way to remember any of the stuff, the generosity, the investing or anything is ask yourself, if I do this

with this money, is grandpa in heaven smiling?

Am I honoring his legacy? Am I honoring the man or the woman that they that made this money by doing this? And if you

would go, "My grandpa would kill me if he knew I was doing this." Well, he does know you're doing it. So, be, you know, beware, right? And so, you know, let's just let's just be >> be the guy that is uh honoring to this

because the opposite of that is somebody that goes crazy >> and acts like they won the lotto and you're not that guy. I can already tell by talking to you. That guy doesn't even call the show and ask this question.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, Jake. I mean like yeah, I think totally agree with everything you said and I think the the detailed plan is

super helpful because it does take ideas

and numbers that can kind of get foggy

and there's obvious ways that we we're going to handle this and it's written plain as day right there. And you know

to to another element I'm like this is so fun that you and your wife get to set up a legacy that you guys then get to build upon your lives which then can be passed down to your kids. >> You understand your grandkids are going to get 400 million because of this.

>> Yeah. 100%. >> That's the way this money works. If you don't blow this, it's I mean you're old man Van or your grandpa was old man Vanderbilt and you're like the second or third gen. I mean this is >> this is a huge mathematical opportunity.

Yeah. No, I appreciate all the advice. I think I think both of us are feeling the the responsibility of this all and and

we listen to you guys a lot and >> and I think something that resonates with us a lot is just is going slow with it and learning along the way. Like there's no reason for us >> to we don't need to make a huge purchase right now. We don't need to we don't need to like add that extra pressure. We can be methodical about it.

We can be practical about it. And as life starts to evolve and change and after the wedding, we we can make a decision and and and it's and it's good to have options. It's a positive thing, but but it does add it does add stress. And I think that's why I just wanted to call you guys and just and get that reassurance that we can do this.

means you're wise.

>> That's a wise position to be in. That means you actually understand that that wealth is a responsibility.

Uh it it is not a celebration. It's not a thing that says, "Oh, I I get to do anything I want to do now." That's childish. But when you say this is a responsibility to future generations, this is a responsibility to generosity to the community. This is a responsibility that we do this in a way that we honor grandpa's legacy. This is a respon You feel that weight. Um, it

doesn't have to be stressful, but that just the sense of that that's the the positioning of that in your spirit uh really say that says a lot about you. It says you're very very mature. Congratulations. I'm very proud. Your grandpa's proud of you. I can promise you. I can promise you. We're proud of you. So, >> yeah. And there's something too that it doesn't take the dignity of you all um

away because of setting up your life as

just you guys. almost pretending like you don't have it for for a second as you're like, "Okay, >> here's our life. Here's what we make.

We're going to live within our means." And and there's something in that that

also gives you that that dignity piece that it's not just completely stripped because I think that's the other thing is it can feel so >> you can feel so numb if you get this money and you're just like, "Oh, we're gonna just travel the world and spend it forever and ever. Amen. And that's all we're going to do." There's something about having purpose specifically for you in your own story and same with your wife of having purpose in you guys.

There's dignity in that. That's the right word. You picked the right word. I agree. >> That puts us the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat.

Heat.

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## 105. Make Sacrifices Today To Achieve Your Financial Goals | October 3, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. She's my co-host today and my daughter. Open Phones at8255225.

Rachel, before we jump straight to the calls, you guys just got back from doing a Ramsay something we've never done, the Ramsay show on the road, and it was you and George and Ken in Chicago, right?

>> That's right. at the den in Chicago, this kind of little club. It set about 300 people and it was so fun. So, we

took live calls from the audience. We played some fun Ramsay show trivia, which they all knew it. They they all won the game because they're all big fans. They listened to every show. I feel like everyone that was there. Uh but it was great. A lot of laughs. Um a lot of good conversation and you know, you get you get reactions from the audience. They're they're clapping.

They're laughing. They're they're uh when someone asks a question, you know, and they know it's it's great. It was it was a really fun time. >> A little groan in the audience. >> Yeah, it was great. It was good.

>> So, and we're taping another one tonight in Orlando with uh Jade and Deloney and

George. >> That's right. Yes. >> Okay, cool.

So, uh these are all sold out. We're doing a little test with these, right? I think we're doing four or five of them here in the fall. And if they all go as good as Chicago, you'll be hearing us all across the country in the spring.

and we'll do a bunch of them for you guys just to come out and do what we're doing right now in your presence and you guys get to be there and ask questions live and uh the only problem is we can't hang up on you to protect you from you.

>> Yeah, we did learn that. >> Yeah, sometimes we do that around here. We protect you from you, but can't do that in a live setting. It's a little harder. I just push the button and the microphone still standing there with that guy. Yeah, that's it. So, yeah, you got to be careful with that. But hey, open phones here at8825-5225.

Katherine's in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Hey, Katherine. How are you?

>> I'm doing good, Dave. How about you and Rachel? >> Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

>> Okay, so my question is, how am I, as a

single mom, supposed to

balance my debts and maintain my health

and take care of my daughter at the same time?

Well, it sounds like the income is smaller than the outgo probably, isn't it?

>> Well, it's definitely not great.

>> Yeah. You wouldn't be have you wouldn't be calling me if you were making 300K.

>> No. >> Okay. Definitely not. >> Yeah. So, what do you make?

>> I make between 28,000 and 30,000 a year.

>> And how many children do you have?

I just have the one. She just turned 13 months a couple weeks ago. And I actually called into the show in April

of last year when I was still pregnant.

>> And I did do what um was advised.

>> What was that? >> But it's um to make sure I got a second

job, work as hard as possible until my due date.

>> That help?

It did a little bit, but uh as soon as I

went back into the workforce, all that I had saved up for my maternity leave and my return to work vanished with the first couple weeks of daycare.

>> Yeah, >> I bet. Daycare is outrageous these days.

Um Wow. And so you make 28,000 a year?

>> Yeah, just between 28 and 30.

>> What do you do?

I am a groundskeeper slash student

supervisor for my local university.

>> Okay. All right. And are you getting child support?

>> No child support. Her father is not from

the US. So, and we don't have any extradition with the country that he's from. So, it doesn't help any matters.

>> Wow. Okay. So, he just disappeared.

>> Yeah. >> Okay.

All right. Well, >> Catherine, do you have family in the area? Do you have >> Yeah, I live in the same town as both my parents and my dad's parents.

>> Okay. >> Everybody's a little swamped themselves.

>> Sure. Do you have good relationships with them in general, though?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. Well, the the long-term answer to your equation is more income. Well, no kidding, Dave. Okay. But um so what we've got to do is to the long-term answer is to be thinking about what career can Katherine engage in to make $100,000 a year starting 10 years from today or 5 years from today. And what has she got to do to get ready for that career, okay? Because obviously what you're doing, we don't want to project that out 40 years. That's an unfun life.

Okay? >> So number one thing we start thinking out into the distant future and what has to be true? Do you have to take a class, uh, get a certification, get a degree in

something to get to be and do something

that pays more than the something you're doing now? That's kind of basic, but that's really where we got to start.

Then we can roll back from there. I'm sorry.

>> Um, I have been looking into doing some classes with either Penofer or Google's Corsera courses.

>> Okay. In order to do what? not

um to either do something in the medical

field or management.

Okay, both of those are pretty vague. I want you to spend some more time dialing in exactly what you would be doing after

you finish these courses and I needed to pay 50 grand, >> right? >> Or more. Okay? And so I don't care what

you're doing. uh we'll send you Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do and and it's got the assessment in it, and that will help you. We'll do that as our gift. But and so you're already thinking like I'm thinking good. You're that's your long-term goal. Now, your short-term fix is got two components to it. Um one is

the dreaded part-time job and family helping you with the babysitting uh some. And uh two is I want you to be

sure you're plugged into your local church and they know what you're up against.

because uh they will help.

>> I have reached out to the church.

>> Good. They will help. And if >> I'm sorry, >> the only help they can really give in my area is help with like rent and utilities, which would pay some of the monthly uh uh monthly daycare fees, but

it would not be enough to cover it all.

>> Yeah. Well, and it sounds like possibly that a day the daycare arrangement you've made is one you can't afford. You may have to redo that. I don't know what that is, but it's a very difficult thing. thing you're facing. >> Yeah. >> And so this is not an easy hill to climb. >> No. And I wonder too, Katherine, if there's anything from home in the evenings and just

knowing your experience as a groundskeeper and I'm sure there's some logistics there. I mean, I don't know. I'm just making this up, but I'm like, if there's even like a landscape company that you could work for for eight hours a week to help with scheduling, you know, doing like some kind of admin work for them or whatever you can do from home, even just picking up a couple of hours to just create some cash buffer is

going to be big. And and if the church can step in on those utility bills and rent, I mean, that will free up I I don't know how much the rent is, but a couple hundred bucks at the minimal um for a period of time, too. So, it's kind of puzzle piecing some of this together for probably the next 6ish 12 months until you kind of can project out possibly a job change to be making more in your full-time job.

>> What you don't want to do is get paralyzed and say throw up your hands and say, "Oh, this can't be done." Cuz it can be done. What it is going to require is not a single answer. There's not a single silver bullet. It's turning the knobs, all of these knobs at one time.

the extra job, the church, the long-term thinking with money, the daycare arrangements, the family help, what all these knobs can be turned just a little bit. Then all of a sudden, we start to get something that's sustainable until we can get our income up long term. And that's where you got to get to. There's not going to be a singular answer.

[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. And they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[Music]

Deanna's in Pennsylvania. Hi, Deanna.

How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my question for you, um, my boyfriend and I graduated college last I

graduated last August. He graduated last December. Combined, we had a little bit over $100,000 in student debt. You're

not combined. You're not married. So, how much do you have?

>> I had 60 and he had about 55 60 right

around there. >> Oh, okay. All right.

>> Yes. Yes. And then we I'm set to pay

mine off in December and he's set to pay his off in December. So, we are going to be >> student loan free um within just about a

year. >> Good for you. >> Um so, yeah. So planning long-term wise,

we're looking to probably get engaged in the next year and a half. Um, so one

thing that we are talking about is combining finances after we are married

and we are looking at what to invest in

once we get to that point. The next year is going to be saving up. We're planning on um having around 50,000 to put as a

down payment on a house. um we don't want to want to really buy anything over like 150,000 and then you know double up

our mortgage payments and pay off our house um as quickly as we can. But the

one big question I had with all of this is I own my own marketing firm. So I

cannot invest in a 401k where a company

would match it. So my question to you is

is would it be smart to open something like a Roth IRA to start investing in now so that you know we can be millionaires when we retire?

>> Good for you. Well, it sounds like you're doing a lot of planning. Congratulations. And of course, let me clarify one thing before I go back to that question. The house we're going to buy is after you're married, too, right?

>> Yes. Correct. Yep. we would not be combining finances or >> or buying a house together because it's very very dangerous to buy very dangerous to buy a home with someone you're not married to. Okay. All right.

So, um now so it's pretty simple just at that point you would have an let's say you're married uh you're out of debt. You have an emergency fund. You have and you buy a home with with 50,000 down. You're at

what we would call baby step four at that point. And that means you you start putting 15% of your household income away towards retirement. And then you work your budget and you have a life and any money you can squeeze out of it, you throw at the house and pay the house off early, which was your plan. And that's how you outlined it.

Okay. So then that brings us to how do we do 15% of our income? Yes. I would start with two Roth IAS.

One of you each have one.

>> I was going to say, yeah, absolutely.

Well, after the debt's paid off. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Once you once your debt's clear. >> Yeah. And you can just sit down with a smart vest pro uh which is the people that do in help our uh listeners do

investing and they've been vetted by us and they have the heart of a teacher and they'll teach you. >> You have available to you a couple of things with your marketing firm that you can also do >> as Roth. Uh you can do a uh it's a SE

IRA, a Roth SE IRA, simplified pension

plan it's called. Now, do you have any employees in your marketing firm?

>> No. Nope. Just me. >> Okay, then that's very easy. So, you can put up to 16% of your income with a

formula. Ends up actually being about 13 when the formula is applied, but you can put a bunch of your income aside in a SE IRA, SEP, simplified pension plan, okay?

And simplified employee pension plan.

Now, warning, if you do hire people later and they're with you more than two or five years, whatever you put in that year that they reach that point, you would have to put in the same percentage of their income. So, it works really well for a soloreneur like you, but it doesn't work well for a small business that has five employees.

>> Okay. >> Okay. You also in addition to that can

do a simple IRA which is a 401k

for small businesses.

>> Okay. >> And uh you can set it up. It's $15 to set the account up. They're very inexpensive to set up. To set up a 401k in a big company like ours is tens of thousands of dollars a year in administrative fees. But for a simple is

designed for small businesses. Now again, warning, if you have that and you hire someone, you're required to match

the first 3% of what they put into their

IRA if you have that simple program going. But point being, there's two types of ways you can get money in and you actually can do both of them technically if youclude and do the Roth and do the Roth. So, you'll be able to get to your 15% very easily. Make sure

they're all in going in good growth stock mutual funds and they're all Roth which is taxfree growth. >> Yeah. And then your husband once you guys get married can be investing as well in a 401k if he's at work too. So you guys will be tackling it from multiple different areas which is great.

Um but yeah, I appreciate the plan and maybe you guys fast forward up the engagement. You know, >> I'm a fan. If you know you're going to be engaged in a year and a half, go ahead and shorten it >> like Rachel did. >> Start the start the process.

Get the ball moving. Rachel and Winston came and said, "We want to get married right now." We were young. >> Okay. All right.

>> No, we waited. We >> You waited about 10 months. No, 10 months. 10 whole months.

But I'm like, "Yeah." >> Yeah. There was no >> Yeah. It's like >> Good job, Deanna, though. Um, but honestly, very impressive.

You guys just fresh out of college just in the last year, have a plan to pay off the debt, >> knock it out, >> looking forward to the down payments, thinking about investing, all of it. I mean, you are in a perfect position and time in your life to to start all of this.

>> Bobb's in Texas. Hey, Bobby. How are you? >> Hey, Dave. How are you doing, sir? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, I had a question. Is it okay to pause uh building the emergency fund to

set up a uh revocable trust and a special needs trust? >> No, you don't need to. You can fund

those with the beneficiary of your life insurance and the kid doesn't need a trust unless you die.

>> Uh well, the thing is is uh my uh life

insurance is really what I was worried about. Like if something was to happen to me and my wife, like we have a beneficiary, but >> well, make the beneficiary make a part a portion of the beneficiary go to the special needs trust and then the child is funded for life out of your death.

But you don't need to fund it while you're alive. You need to go build wealth while you're alive and that will take care of the child later and you won't even need life insurance to do it.

>> Okay. So, just finish the uh baby step three and then uh you said don't set up a revocable trust at all. No, I would just set it up only upon death. Special needs trust has no value while you're alive.

It's for taking care of a special needs child if you're not there to do it. And you have to fund it with some money. And if you don't have money, you fund it with life insurance upon your death. But if you stay alive and you fund it with money and you say, "I got a half million dollars in mutual funds 20 years from now." And you say, "That is earmarked for this special needs child to be cared for throughout their life." That goes into a special needs trust upon my death.

>> You see what I'm saying?

>> Yes, sir. >> So, you're taking on a bunch of paperwork and paying lawyers crap you don't need to be doing right now. You just need to go get out of debt, make some money, and and name your go ahead and do do the life insurance today where it's named into the special needs trust.

And your will says the special needs trust is formed upon your death. And so

upon your death, >> do you have to do paperwork though in order for that to be? Uh your will does it. Your will your will dictates that the trust is formed upon your death.

>> And so po poof, there's a trust. Now you die, poof, there's a trust. >> But who who who >> Well, the whoever the executive of the estate is, >> they have to go form it then. >> Yeah.

It's it Yeah. But it's not it's not hard. I mean, it's like a it's two pieces of paper. Okay.

And you just And but you got to put money in the thing for the kid to be okay, which is your real motivation, Bobby, which makes you a great dad. Okay.

Uh between me and my wife, we're looking at like 1.7.

>> Good. Good. Great. >> And so what I would do is sit down, if you're working with a Smart Investor Pro on your investing, I'd sit down and say, "How much would I need to put in a in an account, you know, invested in mutual funds to take care of this child with $50,000 a year, take care of this child?" Probably.

So half million. So you could say of the 1.7, 500,000 goes into the special needs trust on the beneficiary statement. So, you redo your beneficiary clause on your life insurance immediately and you do your will immediately to say special needs trust is formed uh the Bobby special needs trust and the Bobby special needs trust is funded with 500,000 from the beneficiary of this life insurance policy upon my death and then the child is taken care of which is your goal because you're a good dad but you don't have to do all that crap right now. It could all be formed and done upon your death.

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Rachel is in North Dakota. Hi, Rachel.

How are you?

>> I'm fine. How are you guys doing today?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so we just started the baby steps.

We're on step number two and this is literally our second month. Um, in our first month, we ended the month with a surplus of almost $3,000. So,

>> um, but my question is, um, I have a variable income and my husband does not.

And we have, um, just over 9,000 in our

savings. And so I was wondering, we have four children, so I wasn't sure if we

should just keep that and then um use

whatever extra money we're finding every month to pay down the debt or if we should use the savings that we have already.

>> Well, 90% of the time we're going to tell you to use the savings down to $1,000. Um, how variable is your income?

>> Um, it's pretty extreme. I'm a wedding

photographer, so in the summer months I can make, you know, 12 13,000 a month and then come December almost nothing.

So I also own a studio that brings in

some small income as well. Um, we rent out to other photographers. So I can make anywhere from 1 to 3,000 a month off of that.

>> And that and that's 12 months a year,

>> correct? >> Okay. So, I mean, so your bottom is 1 to

3,000, your worst month, >> correct? >> And what's your husband make?

>> My husband makes um each paycheck is

4,700.

So, about n just over 9,000 a month.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. All right. Very good. Very good.

>> And how much of the um doing well when you guys do your monthly budget, Rachel, what how much does it take to run your household, would you say?

Um, so my fixed expenses and with our

like additional variable expenses like pets and miscellaneous home stuff is just about 9,000. So it just clears his checks. >> Okay. So if you make zero, you guys run the house. Okay. You just don't have extra.

>> Correct. >> Then why would you need savings to pad that?

>> Um, >> just cuz you're a nervous mom.

>> Yeah. My kids are small and you know we get broken bones and fingers all the time. So it just you just never know.

>> Mhm. And but you have like health insurance.

>> We do. Yeah. Through my husband.

>> Yeah. And if you go to the emergency room and they send you a bill the next month, you have some wedding income to pay a bill.

>> Correct. And he has an HSA account, too, with just under a thousand in that.

>> Yeah. >> That's good. >> So, yeah. I I I think you are um it's

wise to be a good mom and say I got four

kids and it worries me. It adds to my fear for us to be down to a thousand. I don't have any problem with the wisdom of that. But the actual math >> is telling us that that you're probably don't have a problem >> because then how much debt do you guys have left, Rachel? Oh yeah, >> we we have um 40,000 in consumer debt

and then on top of that just our home which >> but in baby step two is only plan we're going to have $1,000 in the account >> and so >> Yeah, I was going to say I mean with >> So you're going to be done in like eight or 10 months. >> Yeah, exactly right.

>> Yeah. Yep. And um my husband actually gets a a really big bonus in March every year. It's usually 18 or 19,000. So

perfect. >> Yeah. So, um, according to your plan, we should be done, um, like April or May, the latest. >> No, but No, you'll be done in March because you're taking $8,000 according to our plan of your nine and putting it on your debt today.

>> Okay.

>> Oh, God. Oh, God.

>> Sped it up a few months.

>> I heard her take a breath. I'm going into the I'm just going into like my slow season. So, >> understand you guys can eat on your husband's income. You may not reduce debt. And if you had a horrible month, >> the worst thing that could happen is is that a child breaks a bone, the HSA is used and the $9,000 supports your family and you brought in zero and you're still okay. You didn't even touch the $1,000 emergency small starter emergency fund.

That's your worstc case scenario. So, and you're you're just not that's all that's not going to happen. >> And Rachel, yeah, that and it's so fast.

Like, if you guys had 140 of consumer debt, um I think you know, and it's and it's a longer period. There's going to be more time for something to happen, a bigger emergency, but this is such a short period of time. You know what I mean? I almost would just knock it out because you just think about all the debt, all the payments, all the interest, everything that's happening.

And if you can start chopping off a bunch of that stuff really quickly, which is what the debt snowball does. And and if you're just a little bit scared, it motivates you to do it even faster. >> Oh yeah. I my last month I brought in almost 8,000 last month.

So it's like >> and you're fire you're fired up. You're fired up and and if you're a little bit and if you add that fired up just a little bit scared, it'll push you.

>> And uh and I don't think you're in danger. I would not tell you to be put your children in danger. Okay? I love your kids. I don't want that to happen to them. And I'm not asking a mom to be irresponsible. Yeah. And >> And we're not asking to live on a thousand dollar emergency fund for 10 years either. We're asking for five or 10 months. >> And the truth is from a percentage standpoint, the amount of emergencies that come up that you can't pause the

debt snowball and wait two or three months to be able to save up to pay off that emergency, then go back to the debt snowball. That happens sometimes, but people have the ability to pause it if something happens, but almost never. But most of the little things that come up that people use their starter emergency fund for is smaller than $1,000. But

yeah, I mean it's a it's definitely like takes the breath out of you for a little bit, but you can do it. You guys can do it. It's >> a good thing. Yeah, Rachel, you've I will tell you this. You've done a great job of analyzing your situation. You know your numbers.

>> You're you have a plan. You're running it in your head. and the the the detail

of the question you asked indicates how

how leaning into this you are. So I really think you'll be done by March.

Just my experience is the people that >> the people that are paying attention and focused and they're going on every little thing. They're doing every little we're binge watching meaning I'm gathering this information. I'm going to do this and we're going to put you in the brand new every dollar which is going to hold your hand and make sure you're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing. It's going to give you step by step through the baby steps while you're doing the budget.

It's incredible the what we've done with this financial applicant app. It's it's off the chain. So hang on and we're going to give that to you as a gift. Um you guys make plenty of money.

You're going to be just fine and you're going to be so stinking wealthy at the end of this story. It's unbelievable. This is so fun. >> Great job, Rachel.

>> Good for you. David is in Minnesota. Hi, David.

>> Oh, I'm doing fabulous. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, I got an interesting one for you.

Um, after a couple years after I lost my job and living with in my friend's house while I get on my feet, I just got back into truck driving. Well, now he's going to sell the house and um I I came up

with three plans on what I'm going to do next. Either I buy a house and I don't really have any money for a down payment. I just finished paying off my last credit card today. Or I rent a place but I I'd rather prefer to own. Or the third option, and this is something I'm leaning towards, is living out of my semitr. Uh, and >> how old are you? >> It's a com I just turned 30.

>> And I take it you're single, >> correct? >> And how long would you do that?

>> Um, since I'm not going to have a credit history starting today, since I don't have any other debt or credit cards or anything else, I don't know how much of a down payment I'm going to need for a house. That way, the bank doesn't care what my credit looks like. So the same amount probably at least one or two.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> So if so you if you drove truck and lived in the truck for two years and stack cash as a single guy and made that your home, I think that's amazing. Yes, I would do that.

>> Okay. Cuz a friend or two of my or I should say my sister thinks that it's a little crazy to live out of my semi-truck. So >> Well, your sister's married and has two kids.

>> How did you know?

Wow.

No wonder why you're so good at this.

>> That was a guess. But yeah, that's funny. But I mean, she's got she has a different life than you have. If you told me you were married two kids, I wouldn't tell you to do this. >> How often are you on the road road, David? >> 24/7. He's driving over. >> I know. But how how often though?

>> Every day. >> So, uh, my almost. Uh, so my schedule is

I can be home every weekend, but every now and then I will drive through a weekend just to make some extra money.

>> Yeah, you're doing you're doing long you're doing long haul runs. Yeah. And you got you got a sleeper cab, right?

>> You got a sleeper cab, >> correct? >> Yeah. Have at it, man. Go see America.

>> Maybe for the year. Maybe for the year.

You say two. >> A year. Maybe two. But would I do this for two decades? No.

>> No, I wouldn't do it for two decades.

You need to come, you know, build a life at some point. But but for a couple years and get get some money stacked up and get some distance between you and whatever's been chasing you. Yeah, do it, man. Do it.

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We'll help you out. Carly is in Arkansas. Well, hi Carly. How are you?

>> Hi guys. I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thank you guys for taking my call. Um I'll let you know I'm pretty nervous. I really look up to you guys and appreciate what y'all do. So >> Well, thank you. How can we help?

>> So for some context, I'll be 20 this month and I'm getting married in January. Congratulations. My >> Thank you. Um so my soon husband and I

are trying to plan our future and just make sure that we follow the Ramsay way.

kind of hopped on the bandwagon that my mom has put me on last couple months.

Um, my biggest question is that I have

an $85,000 inheritance in a brokerage account that I haven't touched since I've gotten it, but I when we think

about putting a down payment on a house, that kind of I just don't want to. I'd rather pay cash. So, I'm thinking, you know, we put that brokerage account down on the house, but we want to save for the next four to five years um to add to that that house fund. And

I'm just not sure what kind of account to put that in. Do I put it on top of the brokerage or an HYSA?

>> Are you wanting to use the 85, Carly, for a down payment and then pay the house off quickly, or you're wanting to save that 85 plus a lot over the next

couple years to pay cash for a house?

the 85 plus the rest to um pay cash.

>> Okay. So you guys won't buy a house for a few years and where do you keep saving that money till you buy is what you're asking. >> So who who's has the brokerage account?

>> Um well I do but we will.

>> No I mean what is it with a company that you >> that is doing all of your investing or you just parked it there because your grandmother had it there or what?

>> It's with my finance guy. Um so with the

company I believe. >> Okay. All right. So, if you were with one of our smart investor pros or with your financial adviser, if it's someone you trust, it should be in a good growth stock mutual fund.

>> And uh that's what it says.

>> Yeah. And you should add to that.

>> Not a not a not a a high yield savings account pays a fourth of what the mutual funds are producing these days.

>> So, no, you want to get you want to get a full ride on >> because it's going to be a couple years. Carly, if you guys were going to put a down payment or something and you were saving for, you know, 6 months, you know, you that would be fine to just to do like a high yield savings. If you were starting over, starting new, but something longterm like that, then yes.

Yeah. The investment, >> you got a three to five year window, you got plenty of time to ride the market up and down and watch what it's doing and do, you know, be and be perfectly safe doing that. So yeah, I I would sit down with that guy and make sure that you feel good, both of you and your fiance, soon to be husband, feel good about the account that it's in. What's the brokerage account invested in?

And I want to understand that. And once I understand that, say, "Okay, the purpose of this is I'm thinking about pulling this money out in 3 to 5 years, and I'm going to be adding some to it for a down payment. Is this okay? Is this safe?" And they're going to talk you through it and walk you through it, and then you'll, you know, then you make the decision if you want to leave it exactly there or not.

But I think you probably do. It sounds sounds pretty good. And I really like that you're showing a lot of maturity because a lot of 20 year olds that get married, they want to buy a house 5 minutes later.

We're talking about buying, you know, completely debtree. That's pretty incredible to think about. How about that for a cool goal if you're 20? Y >> that's a pretty cool goal. >> But I mean, she and she's starting with 85, which will be 100 soon. You know what I mean? Like it'll it'll start snowballing for sure with the interest and then adding to it. So, well done, Carly. >> Ashley's in Washington. Hi, Ashley.

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. How are you guys?

>> Great. How are you?

>> I'm so good. Thank you so much for taking my call today. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Well, um, so my husband is looking to switch jobs. I know he's feeling a lot

of pressure and stress about this because it would be a pay cut for our family and in the past I've proven that I'm not able to stick to our proposed budget. My husband's current job is really stressful and I would love for him to be back in a role where he loves the work he's doing and with a company that's morally in line with who he is as a person. I want to be able to sit down with him tonight and give him the reassurance that he can make this switch and it will be better for our family, that I'm on the same team as him when it comes to budgeting and our future.

And I'm just really looking for some guidance on this. Um, >> okay.

>> The only way my husband can do something he loves with people that have a value system that's aligned is if he makes less money. Why the flip?

Why don't he go make more money with people that I like doing something I love? >> Well, I mean, this job came up. This job

>> I know. And it sucks.

>> Yeah. >> It's not a dream job. It's a It's a nightmare job. I'm going to take a pay cut because I'm stressed instead of going and looking for a pay increase in a better setting.

>> Okay, that's fair. That's fair. So, just

a little bit of background.

We're completely debtree. We have our house paid for. Um, our current net

worth is about 1.7 million.

His gross annual income right now is

160,000.

He would it would be 121,000. But here's

the deal. We would get to see him more.

So right now with the job that he's in, >> why not take a job making 180 where you get to see him more?

I Well, just Okay. So, with his job, he's a paramedic.

>> Okay. Paramedic. Okay.

>> Yep. He's a paramedic and right now he works for a com a flight company and he's a manager. Um, so he's in

administration. He really wants to go back to doing medicine and I really want to be able to support him in that.

>> I do too. But I don't this natural human

tendency to assume that in order to go do the thing I love doing it has to mean I get paid less is not it's a it's

faulty logic. I I do what I love doing.

I get paid more every day.

>> Right. Yeah.

>> So I mean you know is there a different way to skin this cat? Yes there is. And

so let's take that off the table. I really want to challenge you all on this thought train because it's um you know I

want to support my husband and he takes a 60% pay cut so he's happy bull no I I

I'm not going to support that now I've set that aside now let's answer your question though hun about uh uh what the the you want to be able to talk about do sticking to a budget right >> yes >> how can she do that right >> well what's what's his take on all of this Ashley I want to know from like the job perspective the budget all of it what's his level of involvement and conversation and effort and everything.

>> Yeah. So, he is the one that found you.

Like, he found Dave Ramsey a few well, probably

10 or 15 years ago. And when Josh and I

got married, he was like, I really want to do this. Um, so from the start, we've

been working our tail off to save, um,

to pay off our house, to get rid of all of our debt, and to be working.

>> We've done a great job. I mean, I was going to say $1.7 million.

>> So, the budget, Ashley, at this point, because you guys are in baby step seven, and we still say to budget regardless of your baby step, but you guys, you're going to have a little bit more flexibility um, to move within the budget versus someone who's trying to find $1,000 and they're cutting stuff and they're going, right? So, you're going to it's going to be a little bit of um it will be some discipline to make sure that you guys are tracking transactions that you know where your money's going, but even the detail of the budget can kind of expand a little bit.

Does that make sense? You don't have to be as rigid.

>> Um so, what I I mean, so yeah, Winston and I like we have a category for home where like all of our bills for the house go, subscriptions. Um anything we buy for the home, we have a line item for that like throughout, you know, if it's random stuff that we need for the house. Uh food's a big category.

lifestyle is a big category. So, we have big categories in our every dollar budget. And then within those, you guys can go as specific or as broad as you want. But the the point is is that within every dollar, especially when it's connected to your bank, you're able to track those transactions and just stay on top of, hey, here's the amount of money we said we'd spend in these big categories, and we're going to stay within those limits.

And so, it just takes some time and discipline to get that as a new habit, but totally possible, Ashley.

Heat. [Music]

Heat.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, my daughter is my co-host today. Nicole is in Mississippi. Hi, Nicole. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I'm having a bit of a dilemma.

Excuse me. I'm a little nervous. >> It's okay. Um my fiance and I we get

married next week on Friday.

>> Oh, congratulations.

>> We are. >> Yes, very soon. Um we are excited about that. But I am still in the mindset of my debt, his debt sort of thing. Um my

my dilemma is um I'm having a dilemma

with using my $800. I'm on baby step one

to throw at my credit card that I am

behind on. And my minimum is half of my

take-home pay. So it's it's half of what

I make in a month. That's what my minimum is. And that is the only I'm sorry. What is your minimum? It's >> about 2734.

What do you owe on this credit card?

>> 13,000.

>> And you have a $2,700 payment on $13,000?

>> Yes. I fell behind um for a few months

and then um

it's just interest added on and it's

becoming unbearable and I don't want >> So that's not the normal minimum payment. It's all the back payments.

>> Yes. Mhm. It's normally around $300 or $400. >> Oh, that sounds more like it. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> All right. So, um >> And you bring home what? 5,000 6,000 a

month? >> About 5,000? Yeah.

>> Yes. >> And and you're you're getting married and he has how much debt?

>> Um he has about 40.

>> Mhm. And you only have 13 or you have a car and everything else or what? Um, so

together we have about $79,000

worth of debt.

>> Okay. Which means you have another 20 something other than this 13.

>> Yes. >> On what?

>> Um, it's personal loans. Um, I owe a

family member. It's a various of other

things. >> Okay. And so your household income is about 80, right? Your income. And what's his?

Um, so my income is about, like I said,

that's 5,000. Then his is about the same a month as well. >> Your take-home pay? Yeah. Okay.

>> Yes. Mhm. >> All right. So, you're that's $120,000 take-home pay. And so, you're probably making 150 or so. Okay. All right. Um,

and we need to pay off 80 overall. So,

>> yes. >> Really? Um, you you don't really have a

minimum payment of $2,700. You have a single a single payment of $2,700 to get

current.

>> Okay. >> Right. Cuz the next month it won't be $2,700. It'd be 300.

>> Well, if I if I don't pay on it, if I don't get caught up on it. >> No. If you pay 2,700, the next month your payment would be 300.

>> Yes, that's correct. >> That's what I'm saying. Okay. So, um, what I would do is just call a credit card company and ask them to roll that in and reset your payment.

Well, I called them. Um, I don't have a problem saying their names. Capital One.

I called them and they said that there's nothing that they can do.

>> Okay. Then there's nothing I can do.

You're not going to get paid.

>> How's that? You get nothing, honey. If you don't work with me because I got no money. I can't pay you $2,700.

>> I can pay you I can pay you $300. If you want to reset the payment, that's fine.

Probably I need to talk to your supervisor because apparently your two brain cells aren't rubbing together.

This is how you talk to Capital One.

What's in your wallet?

Stupid. You know, I mean, come on. Of

course, they can roll that in. They do it every day, all day long. But you got

some junior birdman on the phone up there in a cubicle, right? And so you

got you got to nail them. That's what you have to do. And then and then then catch them up anyway because you got to get the whole stupid thing paid off. And remember how they treated you the next time you get ready to whip out that card or do any business with this company.

>> Oh no, I'm done. I >> cut the stupid thing up >> and let them know that we're done. Uh we're breaking up here. You aren't you aren't all you were cut out to be.

>> I don't care which uh particular movie

star says gives me financial advice on your stupid commercials. Oh god. So it

would it would hurt me to close it and

pay them later. >> Doesn't matter.

>> Doesn't matter whe you close or not, you still got exactly the same problem.

>> So >> yes, that's true. >> Yeah. So you know, here's what you can I just call and mess with them and just, you know, be be um start out.

>> You're nice, Nicole. You got to kind of hype up your you know, hype up yourself.

>> Start out pleasant and then end up nasty before you get off. Yeah. get ready to dial the nasty up pretty quick as you're on the phone if their brains aren't working because sometimes apparently they aren't. And so, you know, now then the trick is it doesn't matter because in the end of just a few months, you're going to have a zero balance on this because you're going to get paid off cuz you make $120,000 after you get married and y'all need to clean this $80,000 up fast.

And one of the first orders of business is this credit card cuz it's probably one of the smallest debts you all have, right? >> Yes. So, we're going to list that in the debt snowball, smallest to largest, and I'm going to pound their face in, and it's going to sound like $2,000 a month or $3,000 a month, regardless of what their minimum payment is.

Okay? And that I'm I'm teaching you to be a little bit angry about this because that's a good thing. That'll that'll push you through this and cause you to just pound their face in with the math as you're doing your budget. You're going, "Take that, Capital One. Take that Capital One. Take that Capital One.

30 years ago, 35 years ago, American Express called Sharon and asked her why she would stay with a man that wouldn't pay his bills.

And I'm still pissed.

35 years later, I'm still pissed. I

would still find that guy if I could find him, you know, cuz she called me crying at work like I thinking the same thing, right? And so, oh my god, these guys, they're just they're just it's a ridiculous company. >> And Nicole, for you and your husband, I mean, make this a year, the first year of marriage and you guys are working extra at night. Like, I mean, you're just you're high-fiving in the middle of the night because you don't see each other.

I mean, like, make it really be done with it. Like, get really, really aggressive with this. And then it's done forever. And then for the rest of your marriage, you guys have no debt.

You have your whole income, >> no stress.

And so the more intense you guys can be in this first year and if you guys want kids later even before the kids like this is this is the time to do it.

>> Yeah. So if you don't pay them 2700 and you pay them 2100 because they're first thing on your debt snowball and that's all you squeeze out of the first month's budget >> or a thousand whatever >> you pay them a whatever you pay them I don't care then the next month you pay them a bunch more and the next month you pay them a bunch more. I don't really care what they think. It's irrelevant.

Just just pound. >> What sucks is the is the interest, right? You get 26% on this amount, you know. But it's on the whole thing anyway. It's on the whole It's on the whole 13,000. That's true. Period. It doesn't matter. The interest is the interest until you get it paid off with that credit card. >> Yeah. Get Get it knocked out. What's in your wallet? Oh god. Money now cuz I don't have you people in my life.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

Oh man. I tell you what, I spent the first part of my career doing a dumb

thing. I would bring in co people we were coaching and I would call and negotiate with the credit card companies and set payment plans for the people we were coaching and it taught me to hate

credit card companies because they're so moronic and I'm still it still rings in

my brain and just that I I cuz I just know the conversation she had it just pisses me off Deal.

[Music]

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Jamie's in Fort Worth, Texas. Hey Jamie, how are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay. So, I have been religiously

listening to you and your team every

single morning on my drive to work, which is about an hour and 15 minutes.

And I have had gazelle intensity

by myself. So, I've tried introducing it

like to my husband and the problem is is

that we've sat down and we have looked

at a budget. I have the Every Dollar. Um

I am still working on assigning Every Dollar. Um but I've got the app for him.

Um where he's doing it. We have about $95,000 in consumer debt together. Um we're a blended family. He has three. I have three.

And um the problem I'm having is that I

am wanting so badly to get out of debt.

Um but I am the primary like bread

winner because he >> he's in a roofing business and well we've had some issues with getting Ruth um approved and uh it's just been really

slow. So there's a lot of inconsistency like with his with his paychecks coming in and it's causing a lot of um

resentment like on my part and probably toward him to where like we went to counseling and we had to have an agreement to where I could only talk about the budget for an hour on Tuesdays and an hour on Friday. So that's kind of where we are. Um, and I just need to know what to do to move forward so one

we can be a team together and how am I

supposed to do this in >> Jamie? Can I ask is the resentment from you coming from that he's not fully on board with the plan and you guys together are like, hey, regardless of who's bringing the income, this is what we're doing. We're paying off debt as fast as possible. Is that the resentment or is it that his he can't seem to keep an income because the work is so wacky

and you don't really know what's going on there. >> Yes. Yes, that's that's what it is. Like

because he still has he's got a child that's in in college and then the other one has already graduated, but

>> I'm like that's irrelevant to his income.

>> Well, it is when he can't afford to pay all of the bills that he came in with.

Then now I'm responsible for for those.

And so I >> mean you mean he's you mean he's paying his kids college tuition and not paying his own bills?

>> Oh, he Well, right. I paid everything

last month. I paid he's got about $4,000

that go out to his kids and their college and car payments and insurance and child support and all of that and isn't able to contribute to our house.

So, in the month of September, we have no money coming from >> married.

>> Um, well, actually, we will be married

one year on November the 4th. And I

wanted to go on our anniversary trip to

the um, money and marriage in Nashville.

And I was like, I know that we're in debt. I was like, but I feel like this is an investment like in our marriage because we need it. And he disagrees

with me. I was like, well, I could I can pay for that, but he said he'd rather go on a cruise. But I'm not doing that. >> I think you need a new marriage counselor >> because the marriage counselor said that you can only talk about a budget 2 hours a week and a budget isn't even the problem.

>> Yes, I I agree. So that that was you getting smacked into the corner by a marriage counselor as being unreasonable trying to ask him to be reasonable with his contribution to the household.

That's not a budgeting problem. That's a values and income >> priority problem. >> That's a priorities problem. I'm choosing uh to put $4,000 in a college

student's car payment >> instead of taking care of my new wife.

>> Um that's a problem. That's not a budget. That's not you talking about Ramsay or you talking about a budget issue. That that's a that's a problem of

respect. And who's you know you guys he

didn't ask you about that. He just declared you get nothing and you have to feed me this month.

That's not a budget problem. And so I think your marriage counselor is a weenie.

I think you need to get a good strong marriage counselor that will sit down and talk to both of you clearly about your priorities and your communication over those priorities. And you guys did a lousy job of setting this up prior to marriage cuz this is a barrel of fish hooks you both walked into and you did no planning about it.

>> That is correct. >> Yeah. And that's and so you're reaping that right now and it's just harsh. I'm so sorry. But yeah, I I I'm you can have

two free tickets to come to Marriage and Money. We'll give it to you. >> We'll give them to you, but I don't also don't want you to think that that's the answer to your problem.

>> You need more than a marriage and money weekend at Ramsey will give you.

>> You need in-depth crisis marriage counseling. You have not even been married a year, and this thing is unraveling rapidly and before my eyes as you talk about it. It's really scaring me for you guys.

I I feel that also >> he's so he's so checked out in what his new wife's needs are >> that he's not even dealing with it >> and that it's again Jamie you're not being unreasonable right I'm like do you know what I'm saying like like you're not crazy like the fact that that you're like this feels off this doesn't feel right I don't feel supported I feel like I can't believe he's paying all of this money that he's barely making all the way over there like where he can't even contribute to our own household like I mean it'd be different if you guys were making a crazy amount of money and you were debtree and you guys both chose to still support the kids while they were in college, right?

but it's so splintered right now.

>> Yeah. >> And then you're kind of getting the the short end of the stick.

>> I agree. >> So, what is it? What What kind of a business is he in?

>> Um, he's in the roofing business. Um,

>> he doesn't make he doesn't make money in roofing. Why?

um he he doesn't want to go and knock doors anymore. He's he's 54. Um and he

has some people that work underneath him. He basically works off of referrals and um because he's been doing it for so

long, >> but he's not got enough. He is correct.

Um I have told him he needs to find something else. So, we just had a conversation yesterday and I was like,

"I don't care. I don't care what you do.

Um, either if you're not going to be working. Um, then I need you to help more around the house. I need you to pick up kids. I need you to drop kids off. I mean, I really that's not really an option.

>> That's just I mean, you you really didn't mean that.

>> I think she's just I think she's craving something.

>> Well, that's not work. >> Some kind of initial. I want him to go make some money. >> Well, I do and I I do too.

>> Yeah, I think that's I think that's what he needs to do and take care of his obligations which includes his kids and his wife and you take care of your obligation which includes him and you know your all's life going forward, your kids. And so, yeah, um you got you guys

really need to get back to another marriage counselor and uh get in touch with your church and ask them who a good strong marriage counselor that can guide you guys through this. and um uh you're

going to have to have a reset, a solid reset on the expectations of this going forward and then live into those. And 2

hours of budgeting a week doesn't fix this. And again, I'll give you two tickets. I don't even think you'll come, but um >> yeah, Jenna will pick up. We'll give them We'll give you guys some. >> Yeah. Just We'll call you. We'll put them at We'll call >> and uh we'll make arrangements right now on the phone. You hang on. I'll make arrangements. >> We can email them to you or something. >> Yeah.

[Music]

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[Music]

Samantha's in San Diego. Hi Samantha.

How are you?

>> I'm doing well this morning. How are you Dave? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> So forgive me. I'm a little bit nervous and I feel all over the place, but I am

trying to make some future decisions without making bad decisions for a future wedding. And um we had a lot of

big changes this year. I got married and I bought a house. So, I would love some Dave wisdom. >> Okay. A future wedding, but you got

married. >> I got lost.

>> Yeah. I was hoping you'd catch that. So, my husband and I, we've been together for 5 years. Um, we lived with some family on property for a little while to save for a house. We found a house a little bit sooner than expected. So, we

decided that the best thing to do would be to get married, get this house, and we would save for an official wedding later on. I had heard you say that would be a good decision to someone on the show at one point. So, >> okay. >> It felt right for us in that. better than it's better than some of the other stuff you could have done in that situation. So, I'm I'm with you. Yeah.

Good. >> Ah, thank you. I got Dave's good old Matt. So, >> check. Survive that one. Okay.

>> We are 25 debtree. We bought our house

and we are having this wedding on a cruise ship in March with family and we have about $3500 that we need to just save and pay off for that. >> Cool. Well, you could do that by March.

>> Yes, we can. Um, we also are I just got

the Every Dollar app and I'm looking at like margin and it's stressing me out like crazy. My husband is like a turtle in a hurricane and it's like we got this. >> And

well, at least you married a stable guy.

>> And I'm like, is this guy real? Because he sounds like I Dave Ramsey. So, He's

never read your book. >> Are you Are you the hurricane?

>> Oh my gosh, he is going to love that.

>> That's so funny. I never heard a turtle in a hurricane. I've heard a turtle on a fence post, but I never heard a turtle in a hurricane. That is a great one. I will use that. >> All right. So, what is what is your household income?

>> So, we bring in 8,000 a month. Okay.

>> Is what? And he's not worried because he thinks you can have 3500 out of 8,000 between now and March.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And why are you worried?

>> I have been a hurricane prior to meeting

him. And this whole talking about money and having an app where we see every time we go to the store and Starbucks

has been new and it's revealing >> budgeting. It is. And it's so scary.

>> Yeah. >> And no, it's just uncomfortable and awkward. It's not really scary. It's very certain.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's revealing is what it ouches.

It touches places I didn't want people to see. Yeah. Oh, but Ouch. Yeah. I got you. I'm with you. That makes sense. >> We became We became I became I never I had debt prior to the relationship. He never did. So, I worked really really hard and he helped me and so did you guys. Oh my gosh. So, we're here now and

I want to make sure I don't put myself back in that boat. I know I won't.

>> Good. >> But >> well, how about we How about we won't?

>> Yes. I know we won't.

>> Yeah. You and the turtle work together.

>> Big with a big picture. I'm like the

worry wart on the turtle. Like how do we save? How do we invest? How do we family? How do we do all that?

>> Well, number one, just like you did before, how do you eat an elephant a bite at a time? Okay. Okay. So, you lay out a game plan and you look at every dollar together and you say, "If we only spend X and Y on those two things, we

will have the money to go on the cruise

and do the wedding. If we blow the budget, we will not have the money to go on the cruise and do the wedding. So, let's lay out the plan and stick to the plan so that our best life ends us on a cruise in March doing a wedding."

And then all of a sudden, everything calms way down. But what ends up coming is a lot of nos because you have to look at yourself and go, "No, I can't do that because I'm going on a cruise in March to do a wedding." Oh, no. We can't go over there because we're going on a cruise in March and doing a wedding. Oh, we're not able to join you tonight. I'm sorry. Cuz we're going on a cruise in March to do a wedding. And all of a sudden, all those nos start popping up.

And that's what you're not used to. And that's okay. That's a new thing. It's a new thing for you. It's okay. Samantha, when you guys did the every dollar budget for the household, how much do you guys spend on essentials? Do you know off the top of your head? How much it would cost to keep everything running like food, electricity, you know, mortgage, all of it? >> 5,000.

>> Yeah. And that's with like because we have animals and >> Yeah. Okay. So, like 3,000 a month margin. >> Yeah. You could do that in like two months, Samantha.

>> So, I fear that maybe the wedding wasn't the like fear. It's after that and the

next big goal. Um, he's confident that

there's going to be an add-on to our house and >> save up and pay for it. Just like you're doing the work. >> Yeah. And he wants to do some real estate at some point and I just I don't

have any of that wisdom. So, >> it's okay. Just just let's let's just do one thing at a time. Let's let's build a little bit of confidence by doing the actual saving and the wedding. and we've combined our finances and we're working together and we have a plan that we are

going to stick to to hit our goals.

These are new words. Used to be me, me now and I. >> Yeah. >> And now it's we and us.

>> And um and you know, and then first we'll get the uh first we'll get the

cruise wedding out of the way and then we'll start talking about okay, how much is the add-on and what's that going to cost and then let's build some wealth because someday we'd like to do some of it. >> Yeah. It's just it just beuns. It's just you you just chip away at it one little thing at a time.

One little thing at a time and and you keep laying out the numbers and the numbers will guide you right through it. >> It's too Samantha remember like none of this is urgent. I mean the wedding to a degree in six months, right? So we want to save for that but >> the house renovations, the invest all of that like you're okay.

You guys are good, right? So nothing has to happen tomorrow. >> So give yourself some of that like kind of grace and patience in it because I'm an urgent person too, Samantha. I'm I'm wired more like you.

So, I totally get it.

>> Yes. No, I get it. I really do. Um and the good thing about our turtles, cuz Winston I feel like Winston's a turtle, too, is that they they love Excel and spreadsheets and stuff and they'll map out every year of like, "Hey, here's how much we could save per month to get this goal of this rental house or whatever the thing is." >> And you really lean in on their strengths and then you're the fun >> hurdle.

Yeah. >> Yeah. You totally have to do t-shirts for the cruise. the hurricane and the turtle t-shirts.

Maybe maybe you know and with a little bride bouquet and the whole bit on the Oh, this is >> I hope y'all don't get a hurricane on that thing. >> No, I totally I said t-shirts. The hurricane the hurricane saying it out loud though. You don't want a hurricane on that.

And now I present you hurricane and tortoise. >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah, this is so great.

>> It's good. Samantha, >> you're fun, Samantha. You're fun. Thank you. And you're going to do great.

you're going to do better than your feelings are telling you because you've never done this successfully long enough to build confidence yet.

>> And uh Rachel is on the other side of that in that she's got a decade plus of

successfully working with Winston. And she's right. Winston is more of the tortoise uh than the hair. And uh he's

very steady, very predictable, doesn't do drama. And um and so they've they've had a decade of working together. And that has now you've got great confidence in that. >> Yeah. Maybe the first day you didn't.

>> Yeah. And sure. And the and the beauty too of all of this that you guys will learn in marriage, but it reflects in your money is you do you get to be yourself. You still get to be fun Samantha.

You get to lean and have the blessing of having a spouse who is different than you and has strengths that you don't have. And then you're going to be a gift to him because you're going to have strengths that he doesn't have. So it really is this ying and yang. And I think that's the that's the beautiful part of it is that when we say working together as one, I think some people freak out because they think, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to lose who I am and all this stuff." And no, you be who you are.

And the beautiful thing is your values are aligned. You guys know where you want to go in general together and how you get there may look a little bit different, right? But but those are the conversations you get to have as a couple.

>> Turns out turtles have fun, too.

>> They do have fun.

We help them have fun though. We create a little chaos. >> Yeah. >> To create the fun.

>> I'll never forget's like Rachel's job is she's the fun girl. That's Rachel's job.

>> And our premarital counselor, I'll never forget looked at him and was like, "Wow, she's pretty urgent." And I was like, I I am I am an urgent person. So, I get it, Samantha. I totally get it.

>> Y'all are going to do great. You're going to do great. >> Hurricane and the Turtle. This is great.

It's a great radio.

[Music]

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[Music]

Dale in Missouri. Hey Dale, what's up in your world? >> Oh, not much. How are you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> So, you know, the holidays are right around the corner and my wife and her family have quite a few traditions for

Christmas time and they are starting to

get rather expensive. Uh, for example,

we uh each get a book from Santa, like a

children's Christmas book from Santa, and there's about 12 of us. And we have

stockings, which averages about $1,000 to $1,200 total. And then we have gifts

for everyone. There's about again 12 of us for that. So my question is >> I'm sorry 12 children's books for 12

adults.

>> Adults. Yes. And >> her family. Is this her brothers and sisters? >> So it's her sister, her father, and um

her sister's children.

And now one of her children, her sister's children has their own child.

So now there's a baby.

>> Okay. So this isn't your all's children or your grandchildren?

>> No. >> Okay. >> This is And so my my wife was really big

on her grandparents.

She has fond memories of Christmas at her grandparents house. They did the same traditions.

Um she just wants to continue

>> those traditions.

>> How long have y'all been married?

>> Um well it'll be 15 years. So you've done this for 15 years.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And are you buying books? Is everyone buying 12 books or is it one book per person?

>> So it's one book per person. Um but it's

usually my wife and I

and her sister that are kind of responsible for all the books.

>> Well, I mean it's it's 12 children's books. It's not a lot of money. I don't What's the big deal? >> Well, they're about $30 a piece. So, I mean, yes, it's not a lot. Like, it's $360, but the books are

I'm not a very big traditionalist, so they're kind of I don't want to say a waste, but I am. They're kind of a waste because we just we look at them for like 20 seconds and then they just go away.

And um and then we we we go on to the

next thing. >> Okay. So, the purpose of the books, I'm just curious because I don't understand while these adults are getting children's books for 20 seconds. What What is the purpose of the book?

>> It It's just the tradition they've had.

>> I know, but I mean, when they were children, maybe, but I don't know. Once you're 40, you don't really need a children's book. What's the >> Right. That's the That's my my question

is >> Well, I want to I mean, if she was on the phone, why would she tell me that they're still doing >> because what they've all It's just what they've always done. >> I know. But I mean, I know, but it's just that's the tradition >> is everyone gets a new book for Christmas. It's a Christmas book tradition. Okay. All right.

>> And and it has like a little note from Santa in it.

>> Well, those are hard to get, but Okay.

>> And so that's one thing. And then we have stockings where people can spend $2

to $300. And it's most again my wife and

I and sister for all the stockings.

So they put like $200 or $300 in each.

>> So what is your all's net worth?

>> Not enough for 200. >> No. What's your net worth? No, really.

What's your net worth? >> Uh you mean like total or?

>> Yeah. Like how much do you have in your retirement account? Is your house paid for? All that kind of stuff. >> So the house that I paid for has got about 100,000 left. >> And what's it worth?

>> It's worth 200. And >> Okay. And what's what's in your retirement accounts? >> So retirement, we're we um we work with

a u a pension. So

>> So you don't have any retirement savings? >> Well, I do. I have uh 100,000 saved up.

>> And what's your household income?

>> Um roughly about 210,000 a year.

>> Okay. And this whole thing is like three grand we're talking about, right?

>> Well, yeah. Well, three grand for like

the stockings.

>> Well, the books are 300. So, I mean, it's like three grand for the whole thing, give or take. >> Yeah. And then there's gifts also that we also do, which could also be another

three or 4,000. Do >> y'all have children?

>> No. >> Okay. So, this is the whole Christmas then, >> right?

The problem is that we don't really

put aside for this even though we know it's coming. 200,000 is three grand. It's one and a half% of your of your income. >> I I Yes, I know that. But my wife and I

I'm not going to throw it all on her. Um my wife and I like to to um we're not

good budgeters, I would say.

And so my my question >> Well, I I guess the thing is this. I I I do think just from a marriage communication standpoint that um you

know this thing has continued to go on.

Uh and some of it's frankly doesn't even make sense. Um but at least you need to

understand from her why this is $3,000

worth of important.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz it's no longer $3,000 worth of important to you. Probably never has been actually. >> No.

in the whole 15 years, but now you just been going along with it. >> Stockings is that is crazy though. The amount of money you always spend on stockings. Like you can get some great stocking stuffers and some reasonable small things and it doesn't have to add up to $1,000.

>> Well, and I think the biggest problem, Dale, is you guys aren't do you you have no planning with your income. you guys aren't good budgeters, you already said. So, it feels like you're flapping in the wind and it's like this here and it's kind of freaking you out because y'all don't have control in general. And I really think if you guys lived on a written plan, if you guys we'll get you the Every Dollar app, but you both if you both lived on a budget and you knew exactly where your income was going and you both stuck to it, >> this is not that big a deal.

>> Then it would I don't think it would feel as out of control. I think it feels out of control as a picture of your entire financial picture.

>> Rachel's right. So let's get the whole thing in control >> and then make >> we can use this as a jumping off point for the discussion for that. But I think it's also individually on the budget.

It's okay to talk it through. I mean, we've done that inside of our family and even with our extended family because I have three kids who are married and have eight grandkids. And so, there's 16 of us and uh eight adults and every adult

buying every adult something got out of hand and it just was dumb. We just >> we all we all have the money >> just draw names >> but everybody we just said we're going to draw m it's just more fun for us to not have to go through all that >> exhausting >> and less you know less trying to figure out what Bill wants you know or what Winston wants. It's just a lot and how do you how do you buy something for me because anything I want I just go get it.

Impossible. >> So hard. >> It's impossible. So, you know, it's just, you know, that that whole thing is just we need to just So, we just dumbed it way down and we're going to concentrate on the kiddos and the adults. >> We draw names as adults.

>> Yeah, but it's one thing. I mean, it's not it's not like eight things, right?

So, that's okay. It just calm the thing down. >> No. And I And I'll throw this out there, Dale. Like, they don't have kids. So, this is their family. >> It is her family Christmas >> and it's her family Christmas. So, there is a level of um >> he he's over it.

>> It's her family Christmas. It's He's He's done with He's done with children's books for adults. >> That's my question is how you get No, how you >> don't run out of books. I guess they don't have to be Christmas themed.

>> Well, Rachel, we could help them. >> There can't be like >> We could probably make them a discount if they want to buy a batch of Rachel Cruz children's book. >> Yeah, but I don't I don't know if they're Christmas themed children's books is what I'm saying. I'm just curious how they get so many.

>> I could probably add a note from Santa to I know Santa and probably get him if they bought a whole box a whole case of your books. >> Pull some strings. We could probably do that. I bet we could get the old guy to help us out.

>> Oh man, that that is hard though.

>> Hey, it's the holidays. It's a good time to talk about it. Now is the time to talk about it. Not December second.

>> Yeah, we're in October. It's great.

>> This is the time. By the way, all of you need to um Speaking of Santa, he says to make a list and check it twice. So, you need a Christmas budget. You need to make a list of who you're going to buy for and put a dollar amount beside each name and total that number and set that

dollar amount aside. We used to do that in cash in an envelope and on the outside of the envelope was the list of people and what we were going to spend on each person. And then that cash runs out of that envelope. Christmas be over, baby. That's it. This is what we're spending on Christmas. That's it. Ding ding. We're done. Cuz it's a neverending

merrygoround otherwise.

We just keep hitting the submit button on your cart. Have to stop that.

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show, is my co-host today. She's also my daughter. Open Phones at8255225.

Jenna is with us in Indianapolis. Hi, Jenna. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

All right. So, I just recently found out that I am inheriting about $50,000.

>> Wow. >> Um Yes. Uh definitely a blessing.

>> Who passed away? >> I My grandmother.

>> Oh, I'm sorry.

>> Thank you. Um I am just I'm 25 and I do

have a lot of student loans um as well as a car loan. I have about $95,000

um in total debt. Um 65,000 of that is

my student loans. >> Um >> I am just a little bit confused on where to put it all because >> I don't want to throw everything at my

federal loans. Um so I'm just kind of

confused about where to go with all of this. Um >> I'm curious why would you not throw it at your federal loans?

>> Because I um was approved for the um

public service loan forgiveness.

>> Um >> that's a scam. So, I don't think >> 1% of the people that apply for that end up getting it.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't set my life up on that. >> Well, and you get stuck in a situation that you may want out of and you feel like you have to stay in it. >> 10 years everything has to go exactly perfect, including the federal government doing their job and those things never go to heaven. That doesn't work. >> So, um All right. Aside from that, so

what do you make a year?

>> Um about 60,000 give or take.

>> What do you do? I'm a nurse.

>> Oh, good for you. That's a wonderful career for building wealth and getting out of debt. By the way, you have tremendous control of your destiny in that career. So, you can add hours. You can add an ER shift on the weekend, make a pile of money. You've got all kinds of options at your disposal. So, good for you. Good choice. >> Jenna, what was what was left? You said the 65 is student loans. What was the other 30? >> A car card and credit card.

>> Car and credit card.

Um, I have a car loan for 28 and then just a credit card that has um 1,400 on

it. >> Okay, perfect. >> All right. So, um, and what are you making as a as a nurse?

>> Um, about 60,000 a year, depending on if I pick up or not. It's about $4,000 a month. >> You must have just started.

>> Um, yeah, I've been a nurse for two years. >> Okay. All right. Cuz you probably could be making 80 if you just blink. Okay. Um

>> well and I'm in Indiana so it's a little bit >> I mean you're are you if you're in Indianapolis you're in a major metro market that you're being but yeah all right um

>> what we teach and what we have lived in

our family for the last several decades

is the fastest way to build wealth and stability is to become debtree because when you don't have any payments you have control of your wonderful income. income opportunities to build wealth with. And that's the how the math ends up working.

And so we've taught people to get out of debt so that they can be generous and so that they can build wealth. The first step, however, of getting out of debt is not borrowing anymore.

>> Mhm. >> And so if you got a $95,000 inheritance

and paid everything off, but continued to go into debt, you'd be right back.

>> Yeah. >> We can't do that. Okay. Just like you can't have a patient that's doing something that's causing a health problem, you guys fix it in the hospital, but then they go back to doing the exact same thing and end up in exactly the same health problem again.

Okay? Same thing, right? So, you have to change your habits that got you here.

Like, I don't borrow money for cars anymore. I'm cutting up this credit card and I'm going to get the Every Dollar app and I'm going to live on a decent written plan where my wonderful income will cause me to finish off the rest of my student loan debt and get me and get

me completely clear because if I don't have any payments, I can build serious wealth. >> And that's would be my goal for you if I was doing that. Now, if I'm in your shoes, that means I'm going to pay off the credit card and the car, and I'm going to put the rest of it towards the federal student loans, and um and I'm

not even going to have any fun with it.

And I got to ask you then, if you did that, and you are committed to never borrowing again and living on a plan, would that make your grandmother smile?

>> Yes, definitely. >> Which is one test I always use about inheritance. the person that left it, I

need to honor them by handling it in such a way that they're in heaven smiling.

Okay. And so, in other words, if you did something irresponsible and frivolous with it, she would not be smiling.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. And that that's how I test it out against my am I doing the right thing with my grandmother's money that she left to her prized nurse grandchild that

she's so proud of. >> And what's wild, Jenna, have you done a written budget? Do you know how much money it takes to run just your household? Whether it's like rent, lights, food, how much do you live on, do you think? >> I I do a written budget. However, I've had some recent changes. I've been living at home for a while, but now moving back. So monthly I think it

probably would cost me or yeah monthly it probably cost me about $2,000. I was

just >> And how much is your car payment a month? >> It it's $560.

>> Okay, perfect. So that that's what's crazy is you just got a raise of $560 a

month >> and with that so I mean you're you could be banking 2500 a month just in what

you're doing right now. That's not even overtime and all of it to get the rest of that 45 >> paid off you know. So, it's it is usually >> jumped in, picked up some ER weekends, which you can make double triple time on if you watch what you're doing, you can uh in addition to whatever you're doing in your other 40 hours, you could get this all paid off in a year.

>> Yeah, >> that would be pretty cool. >> The the only thing that I was considering at first is that my private loan has a higher interest rate than any of my federal and I pay almost $300 a month on that. >> Okay. How much is the private loan?

>> Um, it's 23,000.

Oh, perfect. >> And the And isn't that the next smallest one anyway?

>> Um the highest one is 31, the car is 28,

and then the um private loan is third.

>> Yeah, but you have enough to pay the private loan and your car.

>> Mhm. >> Yes. So, do you think I shouldn't?

>> And the credit card. I think you can pay all three of those.

>> Okay. So, >> I didn't have them broken apart. I just heard student loan. Okay.

>> Yeah, that's Yeah. So, then what would be left would be the federal. So you I mean you don't quite have enough to do all of it, but you might have two grand left on the private and you'll knock it out in a month or so. And um yeah, pay

off your uh no your car is the one to be left. I'm sorry. You're going to knock out smallest to largest is how we list them. So the credit card, the 23,000, then the 28,000, right?

>> Uh yes. Okay. >> Okay. And then Jenna, how how much is your private student loan payment every month? >> 300. Um, it's Yeah, the federal I have

have it set to the lowest, which I need to change because I'm not even cover. >> But that's what's crazy, Juna, is this what this money can do on >> be $800. >> $860. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Which is great. That and that gets thrown at the federal debt and then working extra and you get the snowball going really quick. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think you can be out in a year. You're really going to change your cash flow position. You're going to please your grandmother, honor the inheritance that she left you.

Um, and because all of us that have children and grandchildren love them and want to see them prosper and live a sustainable, mature, smart, wise life and all of those things is what we're talking about. You're doing good. I'm real proud of you. >> Well done.

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Ow.

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Meow.

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Lissa is in Ohio. Hi, Lissa. How are you? >> Good. Thank you so much for taking my call, both of you. I really appreciate your time. >> Sure. What's up?

um everything. Okay. So, I'm wondering if like my situation is one of the kind of rare cases where you would suggest that I should sell my house to pay down debt. And if not, then what should I do?

>> Okay. How much debt do you have not counting your house?

>> Um around five or 600,000.

>> Whoa.

>> On what?

>> Um my husband's school loans are 80,000.

My school loans are 45. Um, we have a debt consolidation loan for 45 and you

know, two cars that are ridiculously like the worst thing you've ever heard. I'll tell you if you want to hear it, but I don't think you want to hear it. You might die. >> Just give me the total.

>> Okay. Um, the total owed 67,000 on mine,

62,000 on my husband's. >> Yeah, you're right. Okay. And the big the big thing I think the main reason I'm calling today is we owe the IRS $56,000 and they want to put a lean on our house because we owe over 50,000.

>> Yeah. What um what's your household

income?

>> Um I'm about to go back full-time making 111,000 and my husband usually would be

making around 120 but he was just laid off at the beginning of the month.

>> And that's another part of the story is we have no emergency fund. So, we're rocking it over here.

>> Gosh, I'm so sorry. >> So, normally you would be at like >> I mean, if you get everything going again, you'd be at like 230.

>> Mhm. Yeah. >> Yeah. And the house is worth what?

>> Um, it's probably worth between 770 and

800.

>> Okay. And, uh, what's it what do you owe on it? >> 628.

>> Okay.

Well, you know, >> my worry there is like after agent fees and closing costs, >> you don't have you're not going to get enough to clean up the mess. So, the mess is >> I think it would help us with the IRS and maybe to pay out the cars. You know what I mean? The the negative. >> How do you end up owing the IRS 56,000?

>> Oh man. Um, so me and my husband, we've

been married 22 years. We had three kids very young, super broke back then. Um,

so we were on like Medicaid, food stamps, everything like that. We just never had money, right? Then kind of like out of nowhere when he graduated college and then I kind of landed in my career, we started making money out of nowhere and we didn't realize that we

weren't getting enough taken out of our checks, yada yada. So one year after another year after another year, it was like we owed 12,000. We're like, what? I guess it's just tax bracket. I don't understand this. Next year was like we owed 20,000. We're like, why is this happening? I don't get it. So genius me.

This year I finally met with an accountant who told me that I wasn't getting enough taken out of my checks.

Also, I have like a side business um where I design and develop websites and stuff. So, I haven't been doing good at prepaying those taxes either. So, it's like it's just a big hot mess of garbage that you know. >> So, what do you make adult body?

>> Um I think this year and it was like 30.

>> Mhm. Okay.

>> All right. So, um

Well, what you have is a series of crisises.

>> Yes. And um you really have to probably

work on uh three of them at least at once. And sadly the house won't fix

them, >> right? >> So um you know what's your husband do for a living? What's his career?

>> Um he's a software quality engineer.

>> Great. Okay. So he's very employable.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Why did he leave?

>> Um he was in like a 18-month contract and they didn't renew it. So, okay. Just just doing contract work. Okay. Which is another time you didn't pay the IRS.

>> Well, I mean, it was a W2. So, >> Oh, a contract W2. Okay. All right.

>> Anyway, so the good news the good news is he probably can lean in, >> put a smile on his face, a pep in his step, brush his teeth, and get a job pretty quick. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Because this is pretty employable situation. All right. So, number one crisis, reemployment.

>> Okay. Okay. Mhm. >> Number two crisis, the IRS. Um, you need

to get on ramiesolutions.com and talk to one of our taxendors local providers, one of the people we endorse in your area, and they will be able to get on the phone and negotiate with the IRS a payment, an installment payment plan with no lean. >> And even if they put a lean, they won't do anything with it because they don't want to pay $628,000 for a house.

Yeah, >> they're not going to do anything with your lean. So, what you don't want them doing is leaning your checking accounts and cleaning out your bank accounts because that would be disastrous.

>> So, you do need to get them you need to get them on a payment plan. And of course, part of that is you really do have to source this all the way to the bottom and make sure we sit with your tax person and if you need a new tax person, you can get them at Ramsey as well. Sounds like you may. um and make sure you've got the right amount coming out of your taxes and that you are doing your uh quarterly estimates on your business and you file those and you file that money on time.

>> Yeah. >> That's that's the law and you're getting hammered with penalties and interest in addition >> to them coming after you for the balance. Okay. So that that's they they get after you on that stuff on that 30,000. They're wearing you out. So, you know, get get on top of that with your systems and your processes. Um,

because you're you're not dumb people.

You're just highly chaotic and disorganized.

>> Yeah. >> I keep saying we spend money like teenagers, you know, like the way >> Yeah, you've been doing that, too. That's another subject I'm coming to in a minute. But, um, but the the you're just out of control. I mean, there's like no off button here. There's frenetic. There's no plan. And so I what

I'm telling you to do is get very systematized and nerdy about this. Like I hired you to straighten out these people's finance. Only these people is you.

>> Yeah. I actually did a literal PowerPoint presentation and Excel sheet before I called you guys to like understand what my picture was here. And >> good. That's that that's a really good start. >> First step actually >> and you got to get got you know that's you know I'm looking at the map and the little red arrow says you are here.

>> I want to get over there and now how do I get over there? Right? So that's what we're talking about. So job, >> get the IRS under control first with a payment plan and with proper withholding and proper filings of your quarterly estimates, then we'll begin to pay them off as quickly as we can. And then we

come to the cars.

>> Yeah, >> they're both ready to get rid of them.

Like we have negative equity about this

is absolute freaking insanity. If you look up crazy in the dictionary, you're gonna see a picture of these cars.

>> I was expecting you to say that. I thought you were gonna say me, but Okay. >> No. No. I mean, this is just And because

it's killing my friend Lissa.

>> Yeah. >> My friend Lissa, these cars own her.

>> Yeah. >> Well, it adds up to what you guys make a year, you know? I mean, >> y'all don't make nearly enough to have those cars even if you paid cash for them. >> Yeah. I think like our situation is that like we've never been late on a car payment on our mortgage, which is >> Are you going to try to justify this to me? Please don't. >> No, no. I'm telling you that's why we thought we were okay.

IRS thing made me look at it. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. That whole dumb thing. >> You realize when you look at these cars that they're a glaring, >> not just a Dave Ramsey thing or a Rachel Cruz thing. They're just a glaring math thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, they're just pointing to you guys. Like you said, we spend money like teenagers, you know, and so you you you

need to get you a couple of, you know, reasonable vehicles, very cheap, like five, 6,000 bucks a piece, and you guys use your $230,000 income to clean up his

freaking mess. So, you get your life back. >> Cuz you're not having fun.

>> Yeah. >> This is highly anxietyinducing.

>> Yeah. >> And when he gets a job back, you know, you guys are making great money.

>> Like insane. So the the >> quart million dollars a year will clean this mess up. >> Yes. Yeah. You guys can do that. And then if you could imagine making that amount of money and actually keeping it and it not going out in payments, you know, and you guys, >> trust me, that's all I imagine these days. >> What if you any payments but a house payment? >> Yes. >> And you made a quarter of a million dollars a year. Oh my goodness.

>> You would have money.

>> Yep. I can't imagine it. And then you can move from a $6,000 car to a $20,000.

>> That's the thing though is even though that's an incredible income, you still have to live within that income because even with that great income, you guys were living >> beyond it, right? >> You two just need to sit down and look at each other. Neither one of us are in Congress, >> right? >> We can't spend like this anymore.

>> It's been like a drunken congressman. I mean, it's out of control. >> Drunken Congressman. >> Well, they say drunken sailors, but I I like sailors, right? you know, sailors, bless their hearts, they're probably way fiscally responsible compared. So, um, even with alcohol involved,

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[Applause] Ramsey Show question of the day brought to you by Y refi. Defaulted private

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That's the letter yfy.comy.

Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Camila in Indiana. said, "I'm trying to wrap my head around the commission method of giving money to kids. I have two who are five years apart. My oldest is 16 and the younger one is 11. Should they have individual lists of tasks or should there be one big list that they both work off of on this on a first come

first served basis? Should give, save,

spend be mandatory part of this participation regardless of what age?

And how do you recommend I mess I can't

recommend age out of it.

>> So for the 16-year-old, I would just

expect them to be helping around the house in general. So there's not necessarily a chore list. They're just becoming an adult. And so they're going to be doing adult-like things. And so whether that's cleaning the kitchen, picking up, um helping with cooking and

laundry, like whatever that is for you, they just are part of helping run the household. And and then I I mean I plan to do with what you guys did is at 16 that they should have their own checking account and the amount of money you would normally spend on them whether that's clothes, friends, gas, whatever it would normally be, you just give them that set amount of money and then they have to manage it and >> with your with your oversight. >> Yes.

then that means I don't have that money to spend for gas in my car." And so if the money runs out, they either get a job or they wait till the next month because they have no more money to spend. And then the 11year-old, yes, I would do a chorebased payment kind of

plan. So they do have chores listed out

that they do and you pay them on there.

And then in that, yes, the give, save, spend method. Um, I would definitely have them do because it's a great >> I like getting all three of those out part of her question. So let me reframe exactly what Rachel said. exact and give you the exact same answer. But let's let's look at it as an evolution. So you teach children how to handle money age appropriately. We don't send the three-year-old to the salt mines.

We might send the 16-year-old. No, I'm kidding. But um you expect more and teach more sophistication and detail and brain

challenge to 16 year olds than you do three-year-olds. You know, if you say clean up your room to a 2-year-old or a

three-year-old, um, we all know that

have had kids that that means I'm going to do about 80% of the work. He's going to put a few toys in the box and he gets a lot of high fives as being the best room cleaner that God has ever made. Way

to go. You're amazing. And here's a dollar for cleaning up your room. That's one of your chores.

But we all know they're not real good at it. They're not competent. That's not the point. The point is to begin to make an emotional connection between work and money.

Money creates work creates money. And I know 54 year olds that don't know that lesson. So, it's good to teach children that work creates money. Even if it's a tiny little thing like picking up four toys.

Okay. >> Then we move on to something a little bit more complicated. You got to feed the dog. You have to clean up the toys yourself.

And you have to empty the dishwasher.

and you can accomplish these horribly complicated, ridiculously straining tasks. And the drama that goes with all of that is unbelievable. And then you get paid a dollar a piece for doing those all week or whatever the agreed amount amount is. And if you don't feed the dog, and I have to, you do not get paid. Commission is work, get paid.

Don't do the work. Don't get paid. By the way, ultimately, I mean, we'll let that go on for a week or two, but I'm just not going to do anything. Is not an option.

You're going to learn to work because my goal raising children was not to raise great kids. It was to graze kids that became great adults. And so, my job is to make sure you brush your teeth so you have some so you're somewhat appealing to the opposite sex and you leave my home later. Okay? That's the idea. Okay?

So, I'm trying to get you out of here.

That's the goal. And what's funny too, I would say majority of kids, not all because some kids are not motivated by money. No, >> but but we have found most. Now, I will say I am a free spirit as a mom. So, I'm probably not as rigid as I should be.

I'm a little bit more like unload the dishwasher and I'll give it. It's not My kids literally created their own. They just showed me yesterday their own chart for letting the dog out in the morning.

>> Ameilia is more organized than you are.

>> And then what's so great about it that genuinely Yeah. She like she should gosh, she's going to take care of our estate. She's going to be great. And so, but she um but she's our saver. And so,

you actually watch them participate and when they earn money, what they do with it. I'm going to show you this picture. I'll text it to the team and they can put it up if they want later. But, it's funny.

We went to Target literally this weekend before I was in Chicago and they got to bring their money >> um to spend because I cuz I don't do it all the time because they just always want to spend the money they make. So, I'm always kind of put it off a few weeks. So we went and my oldest it's like she looks through she looks through and she's like I just think I'm going to think I'm going to keep it. I don't see anything I want.

And then >> I like the money more. >> And then my middle she bought like literally eight things. You see that Caroline? She like couldn't she couldn't handle everything.

She spent every every cent basically.

>> I know. I know. Um but it's great cuz I'm like Yes. And at that age parents like it is it's an amazing thing when they do something for themselves and something big. I mean, they unload the dishwasher, they do, they take out the dog and all of it. >> If you have done that along and you've taught them to work, give, save, and spend, age appropriately, by the time they get to 16, you can talk about we're

going to turn this over to you. I'm going to watch over your shoulder and make sure you do it properly, and I'm not going to control you, but I'm going to allow you to make mistakes, but I'm also not going to let you be out of control with your checking account. But you're going to learn to manage your work, your fun, your spending, and your

saving. And you're going to do and and your giving. And you're going to do all of it yourself. And I want you to feel

the whole thing more like an adult. So then the age out comes. Okay? If they've

been doing that three years or two, I

think we did it with 15 up to about 18 under your control and direction.

progressively, you should need less and less control because you're teaching them to lay out this how much you got for the month. How much of it's going to go to gas? How much of it's going to go to fund? How much of it's going to go to generosity?

How much of it's going to go to this? And you, you know, you need to lay out a budget for this so it doesn't just escape you like everybody else. All right? So, if you've done that for three years, then when they left and went to college did the exact same thing, only we didn't even look at it.

By then, they knew what to do. This is how much you get a month for college expenses.

we're going to pay tuition and we're going to pay books and we're going to pay housing or if you had housing we put that in the amount either one, whatever it was. But this is what you had to work with. We're going to put that in your account. If you want more than that while you're at college, get a job cuz that's how much we're going to give you.

And then it's enough for you to you you're going to have a good time and you can have a good life. You're not going to be driving a brand new BMW. You're a freaking college student that's broke.

And so you're going to be going doing this and you got, you know, college is paid for and even your living expenses is paid for up to a reasonable amount past that. If you want $175 pair of

shoes, you're going to have to get your butt into a job. Okay? And that, you know, cuz I ain't paying for that. And that's then they all four all three, I'm

sorry, there's three of them went through school. I don't I I don't know about that other one, but that other one took off. But the other one, but the other three, they went through school in four years. And the number of times I got a call that said, "Dad, I need money." >> Between all three of them going through four years of college was precisely zero.

Now, we did have a time or two they came home and said, "Hey, here's the actual reality of this budget. It's pretty getting pretty tight. Can we consider doing a raise on it?" And we did do that a time or two, but I've got an emergency. I overspent.

none. So they aged out and then when

they graduated, got married and started their own lives, they already knew how to do life. So we trained them

progressively as they evolved from 3 years old to 23 years old and you know

got in more detail with it and gave more and more responsibility. So, if you got a 16-year-old Camila that's brand new to this whole thing and you dump this on them without >> you teaching them and spending some time talking through these concepts, you're going to have a disaster on your hands. Don't do that. Don't put $1,000 in a 16-year-old's account with no boundaries.

>> That thing's just you're just going to piss away $1,000 instantaneously and get no lesson out of it. Cuz the goal here is not the money.

spending, and work. If you teach those

goals, they learn those principles.

They'll find their own money as adults.

[Music]

[Music] Our

[Music]

scripture of the day, Isaiah 29:24, "Those who are confused will gain understanding, and those who grumble will accept instruction." Tommy Lassorta said, "There are three kinds of people in this world. People who make it happen, people who watch what happened, and people who wonder what happened." Hey folks, don't just set goals in 2026.

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they last at ramseyolutions.com/store

or click the link in the show notes. Uh, Ryland is with us in Utah. Hi, Ryland.

How are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you?

>> Just the same. How can I help?

>> I was um I'm 22 years old and I just

graduated college um shortly after I moved back home. Um

but during my time in college, I was able to save around $60,000.

>> Um >> Wow. >> Dang. How did you do that?

>> I started a clothing business and ran that all through uh well, I started in high school and then ran it all through college while I was studying. Dang, that's impressive. >> Good for you, man. >> Way to go. Like new clothing or what were you doing?

>> It was hoodies. Um, so we Yeah, we had a

hoodie brand and then uh marketed it through, you know, all the short form platforms. >> You said had Have you quit it?

>> I haven't quit it yet. >> Um, but again, like the income's pretty variable and I just started a a new job.

So, >> good. What do you make of your new job? >> You end it on a >> uh 65,000. >> Good for you, man. 60,000 in the bank.

graduated from college, $65,000 income, and a hoodie side hustle. Way to go, man. You're killing it.

>> Thank you. Thank you. So, my question was, I'm I'm at home. Um, and I have the

opportunity for the next year to live at home. >> Um, >> you don't need to do that. You're a man.

>> And then I also, um, I've kind of

getting been getting the itch to move away. Good. >> Um, and start my own life. Um, >> scratch it. And so I just kind of wanted to get your advice on if I should continue to >> keep investing money or move. Okay.

>> I figured you'd >> scratch the itch, man. >> And be free. >> Listen, here here's the thing. You have done so many things that are mature beyond your age. You've started and run a successful business. You've saved $60,000. You graduated from school. You

got a legitimate solid first entry job coming out. What's your degree in, by the way?

>> I got it in business analytics. So, I'm a consulting analyst.

>> I'm not shocked. Okay. That's just wonderful. So, everything in your story is so solid and so mature. And yet what

you're going to find is when you buy your own milk and your clothes don't jump up onto the hanger magically, but without you putting them there, um, your life's going to even get further along in your in your maturation and your development.

And so the Ryland that I'm talking to now will be a substantially different man after he's completely on his own, paying his own bills top to bottom. and he swings by and tells his mom he loves her occasionally, but he does not live there and she does not buy his food or his clothes or iron his shirts.

>> Yes. Amen. And when you go on dates, you

don't have to be like, "Well, uh, guess we got to end this cuz mom and dad are home and I can't bring you home, right?"

>> I'm not kidding. There's something very like Yep. All of it. So, >> it's good. It's good for you.

>> Yeah. That's that's you're you're man.

You got so many things going on. >> Done though, Ryland. I bet your parents are so proud. >> I bet they are. I'm proud of you and I'm sure they are. >> And uh it's not my point is it's not just a math thing. There's things that are going to happen in the spirit realm and in the psychological realm for you that are um that are that that far outstrip what little amount of money you could save on rent.

>> So go be go be the best version of you for the next three years, man. I love it. I'm proud of you. Jake's in Texas.

Hey, Jake. What's up?

>> Hey, what's going on?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Thanks for having me on. Uh, called in to see if it was appropriate or what

should I do first before purchasing a

higherend time piece.

>> Cool. What's the watch?

uh looking at brand various brands the typical Rolex Panerai Omega I haven't

really narrowed it down but kind of feel guilty >> you're thinking about a budget of what 10 20 R >> uh 10 10ish >> would be right it's my first one and I feel guilty spending that much money on my myself I don't feel guilty spending it on you if you've got it or you do you have any debt >> we've got uh the house a car one of the

cars is green here and then no other debt besides that. Well, I got to fess up. We We owe 700 bucks on a mattress that I could pay off right now. >> How much you No, you don't need to buy a $10,000 watch. You have a car debt.

>> Okay. >> You're broke. >> What do you make?

>> Uh this year I will eclipse 400.

>> Good God. Commission.

>> What do you do? >> You know, anywhere. I'm in the mortgage industry.

How long have you been in the mortgage industry? >> 19 years.

>> Wow. >> How old are you, Jake?

>> I'm 41. >> Okay. >> So, why prayail if you made 400 grand?

Do you have a car debt?

>> I don't know. I could pay it off, too.

>> Good. You have the money in the bank to pay it off? >> Yeah. >> How much money have you got in the bank?

>> We are approaching 1.2 in total cash

assets. Okay.

>> You don't I mean this you're not talking you're not talking about retirement.

>> Uh 6 or 700,000 of that's retirement.

The rest rest is post tax 529s,

>> stocks, bonds, cash, just various

>> Well, it's ludicrous to borrow money on a mattress. I can't imagine what you were smoking that caused that. And it's almost as dumb to buy borrow money on a car when you have the money sitting in the bank to write a check and pay for it. >> So, I mean, you did call the Ramsay show. You know that, right? >> I'm aware. I'm aware. I knew you were going to beat me up a little bit.

>> All right. So yeah, I would go buy the watch as soon as I pay to celebrate paying off the car and the thing and to celebrate my de newfound debt freedom that I'm never going to do this again because I make too stinking much money and I have too stinking much money to be buying things with debt. But no, you if you make 400 grand and you're debtree except your home and you have a half a million dollar in non or 700,000 in nonretirement cash assets laying around, you can do a $10,000 watch. Absolutely.

How much is left on the mortgage, Jake?

>> Uh, we owe 290 and the house is worth

750. >> Won't you go ahead and pay it off? >> Get the house paid off. >> Go ahead and pay it off, too. >> That scares me. So, hear me out.

>> Why does that scare you? >> Because he's a 400 every year. It's been a good year.

>> Unbelievable year. >> Up and down. You know,

>> it would scare me le I mean, if I had no income, I would rather have no mortgage.

Just the feeling of having the cash.

>> Yeah, it's a feeling and it's a you're in the mortgage business. I'm trying to take you into paying a mortgage off. I get that. But, you know, but yeah, I if

I woke up in your shoes, sir, I would be a 100% debtree and wearing a $10,000

watch by the end of the month.

>> Okay. >> Car, house, mattress. Oh, God. And

everything. That's where I That's exactly where I would be. And then I'd be on a written game plan. And then you make a crap ton of money and you just >> fasten because here's the other thing.

If you're just a tiny bit afraid about having less cash assets, it'll motivate your butt to do more deals.

>> Yeah. >> Well, and with that income, which I know you don't get that every year, Jake, but like you can replenish the cash very fast. >> Yeah. You you built it pretty quick. So, >> yeah, >> you've done a really really good job.

Um, I I will tell you in general, you

don't need to feel guilty when you can spend the money and it's a small percentage of your world. And in general, that's the answer to your question. Yes. But I gave you a lot of detail to go around that of all the things I would do. But you did ask and you did call this show. So that that's exactly what I do. You've done very very well. Don't I I I ran into this because you're a great salesman and salesman sometimes run into what I did. I tried to out earn my stupidity for a while.

Just lay it in place a system. Work the stinking system, man. And then go bank a pile of money and apply it to the system. You're doing so good. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 106. Make The Most of Your Financial Choices—They Matter | December 22, 2025


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Hey, before we get rolling, listen up.

If you want to win with money in 2026,

you can't keep living normal. Normal's broke. You need a plan. Get a

personalized plan and start living like

no one else by downloading our EveryDollar app today.

Normal is broke. Common sense is weird, [music] so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show. Jade Warshaw, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

The number here if you want to talk is triple eight 825-5225.

And [music] we're going to talk about you right in front of you. Nancy's with us in Clarksville. Hey Nancy, how are you? Good day. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. Um my question is I have paid off

all my debt in step two. Um but the problem is I got involved in a lease for an HVAC system. The total cost of the system when paid off at 10 years will be 62 over $62,000.

So I'm wondering, do I pay it off using the debt snowball method and just get out of it, meaning

I'm responsible for all that, or just leave it until I do the house stuff?

Wow. Okay.

I didn't know you could do a lease on a heat and air system.

That sounds like it sounds like you got >> General and I went to Better Business Bureau and the Attorney General Consumer Protection Department said it is legal.

It's being done all across the US. Yeah.

Um so yeah. But it's so bad that they

Yeah, it's horrible. Yeah.

Okay. So a lease typically

I have no idea in this case, but typically would have an early buyout provision because leasing is simply financing.

An early buyout >> is termination. Okay. What What does it cost to terminate it?

The cost of the whole contract.

>> No. >> have remaining, yes. Yes, sir. No. Yes,

sir. 47 right now my lease buyout would

be about $47,000.

I paid I've paid 15. >> Now you You had an attorney look at that part also, right?

I'm I'm getting there. I Right after I did the system, um I got diagnosed with cancer. So I had I got kind of sidelined for a few few years. Now I'm like, wait a minute. I don't want to keep doing this. This is This is thievery. It's theft.

Wow. But Okay, cuz I've I I mean I know a lot of equipment leasing, certainly car leasing.

Um and I've looked at the contracts on all kinds of leasing deals, even employee leasing they have out there now. Uh which is really strange. And um

Uh uh every one of those have because have a buyout provision that is less than the total of payments because you're giving

them their capital early. You're giving them their money early and so they they're not collecting interest, so to speak, even though there's not technically an interest rate.

And so almost every one I've ever seen, but I've never seen a heat and air one, so I don't know.

My God, honey. Um All right. So let's let's do two things. Number one, I want you to reinvestigate that part of it.

Okay. Because as as suspect as this whole thing is, that part of it's suspect. So if the total of your remaining payments is 47, a normal buyout provision would put you somewhere in the 30s.

And the way you would do that, if that's the case, is instead of paying them in

advance like double payments like you would in a debt snowball, you simply save the money up. You pay You pay yourself into a savings account and then write them one check.

If there is a discount for early payout, okay?

And there typically is. If there is not, either way, what is your income?

Uh I just retired from federal service, so my income's roughly 2400.

Okay, this goes in baby step six then

because it is a the equivalent of a second mortgage.

And it's a lien on your house because it's a lien on your heating and air system. And you would pay it off in baby step six when you're paying off the house.

Okay. Um what is your interest rate on your home?

Uh 2.25. Yeah. And no no no bueno there.

We leave that alone. Okay.

Cuz if you had a higher interest rate, I would suggest refinancing and taking them out.

Okay. My mortgage balance is 169 Yeah.

578. So when you get to baby step six, you knock out the lease first either way, whether you get a discount or not, because it's more than half your annual income. When a when a home equity loan or a second mortgage of any kind is more than half your annual income, we move it to baby step six. Mhm. Yeah. I've never heard of such a thing as I [laughter] have now. Yeah. I There's a lot of things that I get on this show that is This is where I learn about it. Yeah.

And then I have to go look it up later and go, "Oh, it is a thing." So um um Uh you know what else I didn't ask? She said federal employee. I Clarksville is a is a base. Military base.

>> Oh, that's right. So these these may be morons that are preying on our military people. >> Yeah, that's big. That's Yeah, which makes us like double Yeah, a double negative for this company that does that.

Oh, there we go. >> There you go. I helped with that. Yeah.

Just throw a dart out there into the universe to see if we can hit a balloon. Why not? Yeah. Man.

Oh, man. Cuz I did have that happen one time. I was ripping on the payday lenders at 800%. Oh gosh, yeah. And a lady called and said, "Well, my my son owns two of those stores." I said, "Well, tell him to sell them and quit being scum." Uh-huh. He's ripping off poor people. He's oppressing the poor.

Read about what happens to in the Bible when you do that. It's not good for you.

It's not a place you want to be. Messing with widows, orphans, and oppressing the poor. These are not three things you want to do in the Bible. And um and really, just as a matter of living your life properly. Hello. Mhm. But uh yeah, they're scum. They're scum. So yeah, it shouldn't be Don't be scummy. And and then you're safe on this show. We We [laughter] leave you alone. >> about you. We won't talk about your kid.

We won't talk about you. We won't do any of that. Yeah. So So uh interesting to side note, the lease on a car, and I suspect it's true on a heat and air system, is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle.

Several publications, including Ramsey Research, have done detailed research on this. And when you run the math out, so you can take a financial calculator and say this is what the MSRP is on the car, which is what it's calculated on.

Here's what the buyout is at the end of

the lease. A closed-end lease always has a number after 3 years, 4 years, 7 years, whatever it is, you can buy the car for 12,000, but it was a $64,000

car, or whatever it is. Mhm. So you've got those two numbers, and then you have the number that is the monthly payment. When you put those into a financial calculator, you can figure out what the effective cost of capital is. Uh that's a fancy way of saying the interest rate.

However, interest rates are not disclosed on leases like they are on car loans. Cuz the Federal Trade Commission requires they hand you one piece of paper with your APR on it. Even if they're screwing you, they have to hand you that piece of paper. And you'll look down and you'll see 38% or 28% or 12%.

You know, you'll know you got subprime, right? On a lease, you don't have to do that cuz lease is not technically borrowing money. But you can run out But it is borrowing money. >> So that cost of capital, there's no cap.

No cap at all. And no knowledge of what it is unless you know how to run a financial calculator. >> Wow. And I've done it on probably 40 or 50 leases over the years. Every time I do it, it comes out between 14 and 17%.

>> Mhm. And so those of you that are I got my BMW on a lease because my accountant said that was the smartest way to do it, you're an idiot. You got hammered.

You're paying 17%.

You should fire your accountant and get rid of your Beamer. You're getting hammered. >> Mhm. But you never did any math. You just thought you were sophisticated.

Jeez. No, you wanted a Beamer. That's what it was. And there's a way to get a Beamer. Very little down, a lot a month, and very little at the end. Yeah, this is the problem.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us.

Michael is in Toronto. Hey Michael, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hey, thank you.

What's up?

So, um I'm currently 18 and by the time

I graduate, I'm probably looking at a hundred to a hundred and twenty thousand dollar loan that I'm sitting at and my current car is under my mom's name with her interest rates on it.

And her credit got ruined by my dad leaving. And I'm looking to switch the

car with way less percentage of

interest. But I have to max out my credit cards for the interest for the down payment to put on it.

And I don't know what to do if it's even worth it or not. What's your car?

What do you owe on the car?

Uh I'm sitting so I bought the car at 30,000. I'm looking at 41,000 right now.

And you're a college student?

Um first year, yes.

With a $40,000 freaking car. What are you doing with a $40,000 car? You're a college student.

I had a $70,000 car and another 60,000.

I sold it. I made profit.

But my mom's credit got ruined and

they gave me a 12% interest on it and I didn't realize till yesterday when I checked and I only had it for 5 months.

I don't think this is your mom's fault. You bought a $30,000 car and you're in a $40,000 car and you're in college.

>> Mhm. You be You get a $4,000 car. Do you make any money? What's your income?

So I'm sitting at 1,000 to 1,500

from my work at retail.

And I had side businesses before and I

had like about $70,000. I blew it all.

And now I make maybe 500 to a thousand dollars from my side businesses a month. Mhm. Okay. Do you have any money saved?

Nothing. I'm in debt with credit cards.

Okay. So, the car you owe 41,000 on it.

If you sold it private sale, what's it worth? Or your mom's car? >> Uh right now with a trade-in, they're giving me 28,700. Oh my gosh.

>> trade-in. $12,000 negative equity on it.

>> Okay, but let's look at that's your homework is to look at the Kelly Blue Book value if you did private sale cuz you're going to get more for it. I did.

It's 30,500.

30,500. Okay.

If I were in your shoes >> But I can't. There's a lien on the car

that I can't pay.

Yeah, I mean you make a thousand dollars a month, your car payment's more than that, isn't it?

Uh my car payment comes exactly to a thousand with interest.

>> So how are you paying it?

Uh Credit cards? Basically everything I got. No, no, I can't put on credit. It's debit. Basically everything I got. >> if you make a thousand dollars a month and you spend a thousand a month on your car, you don't have money to put gas in it and you don't have money to eat.

So I do eat out a lot. I don't know how.

>> No, I make like 1,500. I can on a good month I make 2,000. On slow months in retail, I make 1,500.

>> Okay, so you got $500 to spare. You eat a little bit, you pay your insurance, you get gas. You've got nothing left.

>> Okay, let me let me stop a second cuz I I did a drive I did a drive by on something a minute ago I want to know more about. You had $70,000

in savings you said from a side hustle that you blew. Did I hear you say that?

Yes. Tell me about that side hustle.

Where did all that wonderful money come from? It came from I used to sell screen protectors and cases during COVID when I was 14. Ah. And Amazon. Yeah. So, no

COVID, no business. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah.

All right. And I gave most of it to my mom after the separation. Mhm.

And she's sitting at least at 300 to 400,000 herself. Yeah. Okay, you're 18.

You're 18. Your mother is not your responsibility. Your responsibility is to love her and care for her, but not you are she's not your financial responsibility. So this has got to stop.

And unless you can create a huge income,

you need to get rid of this car and get a $2,000 car.

I tried doing that, but I have to so the loan that I have >> would put I would put the five thousand I'd put the ten thousand dollars on a credit card. I'd rather have ten thousand dollars on a credit card than 41,000 on a car. Amen.

I can't. I can't put it on a credit card. Why? I have maybe 3,500 left on

the credit that I can spend. Yeah. Okay.

Who do you owe the 41,000 to?

Uh to a bank.

Go down talk to the bank about signing a note for the difference.

Do that, right? And then what about on the new car?

Uh so that's the thing that doesn't make sense to me on the new car that I looked at that I'm going to get.

Um same monthly payments instead of 96 month loan, it's a >> I didn't say anything about monthly payments. I said get a $2,000 car.

Uh because we tried we tried when we went to the bank. I didn't want you to go to the bank. I want you to come up with $2,000 and go buy a car.

Just buy a car? Yeah, are you are you in school full-time?

Yeah. Are you on campus? You're at home?

Or at home? Uh campus.

Like where do I live? At home. Okay. How close are you to campus?

What I'm getting at is you might go through 2 months where you don't have a vehicle and you make it work. And instead of using that thousand dollars a month to pay for a car note, you use it to save up and get yourself a little beater car is what we're saying. >> away from campus.

Okay.

All right. Okay, here here's the thing.

We keep throwing suggestions out and the only answer you've got is it doesn't work. So let me tell you what doesn't work. Your life the way you have it set up right now. Your situation sucks beyond belief. The decisions you have

made are beyond suicidal financially.

So, you've got to throw a stick of dynamite in the middle of this freaking mess you've created and it's going to be really uncomfortable, but you know what's going to be more uncomfortable? You sit there in this pile of stuff and you're going to smell like this stuff as long as you sit there in it coming up with excuses to sit there in it. So you have got to get rid of this mess. You've got to create a big You may need You may need to quit school.

You need to go get some dadgum money and start cleaning up this mess.

going to school on caffeine and doing

what normal people do when they get in this instead of telling me, "Oh, my mom got screwed over by my dad when he left." I'm sorry, but that doesn't mean you buy a $70,000 car while you're in college and downgrade it to a $41,000 car and act like that's smart.

Nowhere in this conversation is smart.

Smart didn't come up today.

Okay? No, it didn't. >> even show up here. So dude, you have got to get rid of the car and you've got to figure this out some way or another. Now we're giving you lots of suggestions, okay? Take get get a buddy to take that's in the neighborhood to take you to college. Quit college for a year and take you a gap year and go clean this mess up while you work like a freaking maniac.

But you are man, you you you cannot

there's nothing in this that the math works. Sixth graders could tell you this math doesn't work.

It This is a mess.

And so no, you can't keep this car and no, you can't keep this life the way it is it designed right now. It's why you called. And you can't get another car on payments. >> to argue with you about it anymore. I'm through talking to you about it. So you go fix this. We gave you some suggestions, but part of fixing it is you've got to decide that where I live, the land I live in right now is the land of stupid and I want to leave.

That's that's the first decision you got to make and we ain't even been able to get that far with you. So that's where you got to go, man. That's where you got to go. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

Now Jade, let's just review the policies on this show. Review it. We love you.

All of you. If you've done something stupid, we love you anyway. We've done something stupid.

I have a PhD in DUMB. Jade and Sam

cleaned up $465,000 worth of stupid in their life. So no one sitting here high and mighty talking down to someone. So we love you. We love you so much we're going to tell you the truth. We're we're going to start gentle and we're going to start by trying to help you move along. But if you want to argue with us while we're trying to help you, it's going to get nasty fast because we love you.

I'm going to smack you upside your stupid head until you listen to the stuff that'll make your life better.

Now I will start with a gentle handshake and say, "Honey, this is the best way to do it." Well, Dave, I listen to you all the time, but I'm not selling the car.

Well, you're an idiot. You got to sell the car. That's what That's how it's going to sound around here, honey. Okay, so we're we're we're going to serve you

when you call here. You're not entertainment value for us. You're a calling for us. You're a crusade for us.

We want you to win and we're going to do everything in our power starting at first gently and turning up the heat by degrees during the time we're on the phone together until we have contact. This is

the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.

Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it.

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>> [music]

>> Jade [music] Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Jaden is in [music] Casper, Wyoming. Hi, Jaden. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Thank you for taking my call, fellas. Sure. Merry Christmas. What's up?

Um my wife's been pestering me for quite

some time now to take her on a vacation.

Um I'm not sure right now is the time to do it. We're both pretty young. I'm 25, she's 21.

Um we got a little one on the way here before too long, and we're getting ready to purchase a property we intend to build on. Okay. Do you guys have debt?

No debt. No debt. We've been very fortunate in that way. Community college educated. >> [laughter] >> Okay. What's your household income?

Um I bring about 50,000 home after

taxes, and she brings about 20,000. And

that's part of the issue is that next year her income will be going away.

She's a preschool teacher now, um but with the little one, she's going to stay home. Do you have an emergency fund saved?

We do. The thing that concerns me is that after the down payment on the property, that's that's what we'll be left with is with our emergency fund.

So, to take that vacation, we'd be kind of having to dig into that a little bit.

Well, a vacation's not an emergency, so I would not dig into the emergency fund to take an emer- to take a vacation ever. Um What does she want to spend?

She wants to go somewhere warm, you know, Wyoming. This time of year you want to kind of leave it a little bit.

Um about 2,000. 2,000? Okay. So, have

you run Have you run out the numbers on what Here's the thing.

I'm not saying uh I'm not saying no, and I'm not saying when, but you can decide when. You can look at this and go, "Okay, my wife wants to take a vacation. We've never taken a vacation. We're debt-free.

We have an emergency fund. We're also trying to move in this house. What What can that look like, and when is the time to take it?" Because if you just tell her no, and you kind of just swat it away like a gnat, she's going to get irritated. Um >> [laughter] >> Well, no, that's not your position anyway.

She's not a child.

Okay? The two of you ought to sit down as two adults and go, "Okay. Yeah, vacation is a good thing.

Uh our emergency fund's a good thing.

Having a baby's a good thing. Buying this piece of ground's a good thing. None of these are bad things. Now, where do they fit in our lives with our goals

as grown-ups?

You know, you can't just be a kid on the cereal aisle throwing a fit.

You have to be like an adult.

Both of you.

And so, I don't want you being her daddy and have to talk her off the ledge. I want her to grow up and look at it and say, "As a grown woman who's has a child, what is responsible for me? I Yeah, I want to take a vacation. I'd love to take a vacation.

Um but as a grown woman looking at this, I can't afford to do it right this second cuz I'm not going to be working next year after the baby comes. Or as a grown woman looking at this, uh I've got a child on the way. I'd really want to do this. You know, we do have $86,000 in the emergency fund.

We probably can go ahead and take a vacation cuz you've overfunded the emergency fund, Bubba.

That's right. But and if she's laid out how you guys can do this, then And it's wise. >> And it's wise, then you've also got to be open to going >> got to be a grown-up, though. It can't be "I want it. I deserve it." You know, I don't Bull crap. That's what 14-year-olds do.

That's not what grown women do, grown men do. No. Um so, no, you you have to be emotionally mature and say, "What is good for our family, and if in the midst

of that we can do this reasonably, and we don't leave our family vulnerable with no emergency fund cuz we went on vacation, that would be stupid." Yeah, that's not good. Um or leave our family vulnerable since you're going to be quitting work and staying home with the child, and and you can't make your bills

because you went on vacation last winter because it's cold in Wyoming, which is not a shock to anyone in Wyoming, for sure. And so, you know,

that kind of So, I mean, what I want to do is just pull her into the conversation as a grown woman, not as someone who's I have I can't get my husband to let him let me do stupid stuff. I mean, this is just That's ridiculous. That's not a conversation you want to have in a marriage. It needs to be the two of you are are we have this child, we have this future.

What makes sense? And yes, vacations are part of the equation. I got no issue with that at all. Mhm.

But but where they fit is where your point, Jade.

>> know, Where and when? Yeah, they don't strike me as people who are not smart with their money. They paid off their debt. They've got an emergency fund.

They're Looks like they're trying to do this house the right way. I have a feeling that he's laser-focused and sometimes has to remember like, "Hey, we can we can do some things sometimes." That's just my my spidey sense. >> Could be. Could be.

Yeah. Could be loose loosening the nerd up a little >> Loosening up the nerd. Yeah, but she needs to do that with reason, That's right. not with emotion.

Yeah. And that that's a fair That's a fair request for a grown-up.

Steven is in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi, Steven. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas. How are y'all? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help?

Okay, so here's my situation.

I'm 20 years old. I'm engaged, and I'm planning on getting married in June.

And uh that being said, we're looking to get an apartment together in June because that's what you do. You move in together once you get married. Facts. Um I'm completely debt-free.

She has a little bit of student loan debt, but that's kind of uh beside the point. The pro- question for me is my grandma opened up a credit card for me to use strictly as a gas card.

And that's my only credit card, and she always pays it on time, but that being said, I have credit with >> it Wait a minute. How Oh, you're 20 years old. Why does your grandmother pay your card?

That That was her way of saying that she wants to support me through college.

That was >> [laughter] >> That was her gift to me.

And so, I I can totally afford my own gas, but that's just Good. gift she wanted to give to me. And but I know that I want to get this apartment, and I really like the sound of what y'all talk about of letting your credit score roll over to nothing.

Uh-huh. But I'm afraid that if I say, "Hey, Grandma, thank you, but let's close this card. I appreciate the gesture. I can pay for this." Um that my credit score will plummet, but it won't flip and disappear before that time in June when I'm trying to get an apartment. >> Honey, you don't have to have a credit score to get an apartment.

Okay. That's That's That's mythology.

We've done this about six times in Ramsey in the last six or eight years.

One of the personalities will jump on the phone and call 15 apartment complexes and say, "Hey, I'm moving to Nashville. Um do you guys I don't have a credit score cuz I'm just out of school, and I got zero credit score.

Uh do you guys You guys rent to people without a credit score?" Nine out of 10 say they do.

Some of them, a couple of them want an extra deposit, but most of them are just No, it's no big deal. Come on over.

That's just complete mythology that people have spread out there among your age group. Mhm. It's just not true.

Exactly. Nine out of 10 are not don't care if you have a credit score.

Awesome. I did not know that. I was under the impression that Yeah.

>> my credit score would plummet and that might jeopardize whether or not we'd be able to move in. >> Your your credit's when you stop borrowing money, your credit score will go away. Um it's not going to plummet.

It's just going to disappear. Um but to Dave's point, you're he's right. There are plenty of places that you don't need a credit score to go and so you'll just do your due diligence and find one.

Yeah. Yeah, just you know, can't rent to those you can't rent from those guys cuz they require one. I can't rent from these people over here though. And by the way, that's a great litmus test because when you move into an apartment, you want to have a super whoever's in charge that uses their brain because things are going to happen.

You're going to need to talk to them about things and you want something fixed, right? You want somebody who uses their brain. So that's a great way to start. Yeah.

And if they only way they approve you is by a number, that's not using your brain by definition.

Very good. Good stuff. Yeah, you can look those uh calls up. We've had uh different personalities do this over the years and they're on the YouTube channel and you can see the them making phone calls to the apartments and and it's recorded and you can hear the conversation.

Yeah, George did one on on the fine print, remember? Yeah, that's the one I remember and he he did. He went out and he was able to call them and there were plenty that did. You just have to call around a little bit.

It's not going to be the first It may not be the first door [music] step that you go to. That's all. Yeah.

>> [laughter] >> I know that's right. Wow. Good for you.

Good for you, Stephen. Well done, sir.

This is the Ramsey show.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

There are few things in my life that I've run into that um other than things

from the Bible >> [music] >> that I am 1,000% sure work.

Um teaching the seven baby steps that we teach here. The first one is save a thousand dollars. The second one is get out of debt everything but the house using a debt snowball and gazelle intensity uh as if you're running from a cheetah.

The gazelle runs for its life. That's the intensity you use to get out of debt. You sell so much stuff the kids think they're next. You don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there and you're not going on vacation cuz you're a broke person in debt and you are ears laid back running headlong straight into this getting rid of it, baby.

And we're going to leave it all on the field. That's baby step number two. And then you go on to building an emergency fund, retirement plan, kids' college, pay off the house, and become very wealthy.

those everywhere in The Total Money Makeover book is where we outline them.

We've sold 12 million copies of that. 10 million [clears throat] people have been through Financial Peace University where we teach those baby steps and how to implement them. So tens of millions

literally of people and there's tens of millions of you listening at this moment to this podcast on YouTube and on talk radio. Uh so we know that easily a

hundred million people have done some stage or some process of the baby steps.

And um with varying degrees of success because of varying degrees of commitment sacrifice like you do with anything.

So it's it's a it's a proven thing. It's not a theory comes out of a test tube.

The debt snowball is probably what we've become best known for. Now this is where you list all of your debts except your home smallest to largest. You pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. You attack the little one with a vengeance.

You squeeze every dollar, every drop out of your budget and you throw it at the little one. You work extra, you sell stuff, you clean out a savings account all the way down to a thousand dollars, you stop putting money in your 401k, you get term insurance and cash in your stupid whole life policy, you sell a car if it's too expensive, you do whatever you got to do and you throw every dime at that smallest debt until it's gone. When that one's gone, you take the payment you used to pay there and every dime you can squeeze out of everything else and you put it on number two.

And when number two's gone, the payment from number one and number two are freed up. The snowball rolls over again.

And you're doing this with just increasing levels of hope, increasing

levels of sacrifice, increasing levels of passion and every time the snowball rolls over and you get rid of another payment, that's that much more money freed up in your monthly budget to attack the next one down.

And it's been unbelievably successful.

But Dave, I got to be I'm the person because I know what they say in the comments. I I I see what people are asking and the bigger the biggest two questions are this. Dave, I've got my debt listed.

What if I have a debt that the interest rate is just killing me? Why would I put

the lower one first What why would I list them smallest to largest if it means me, you know, having to pay this high interest loan for much longer? What about the math, Dave? It's brain chemistry.

A dopamine is released when you complete a task.

Dopa There's a dopamine release. Mhm.

And it's called a feedback loop in psychology. And so when you have success at something, you're more likely to repeat the task.

>> And the faster you have success and the more often you have success, the more you've got a feedback loop and the more the dopamine releases there and and and uh in a spiritual realm, we would call this hope. >> Mhm. Mhm. You start to believe it's going to work because it's working.

And then you lean in that much more and you lean in that much more and you lean in that much more. And that's why this works because no one set set up set sat

down at their kitchen table and said, "Hey, let's go deeply in debt cuz that's a good idea." A series of behaviors put you into debt and you don't fix a behavior problem with a math solution. You fix a behavior problem with a behavior solution.

And the feedback loop, this positive feedback, I knocked out one. Yeah. I knocked out another one. Yeah.

I knocked OUT ANOTHER ONE. WOW. AND THEN and you're down you're beating on the you're beating on that student loan. You're beating on that big one.

You're beating on that car. AND YOU'RE YEAH. AND and now you're starting to yell at the your neighbors think there's problems over there, you know, cuz you're getting fired up cuz it's working and that's the dopamine release. That's hope that you're starting to believe.

And when I first started I paid off the little one, I wasn't so sure. And the next one, I'm well, maybe this will work. And then the next one, yeah, it's going to work. And the third ONE WAS LIKE, AND AND THEN YOUR BROKE FRIENDS START making fun of you and you want to punch them, you know.

And so this is this is this is why it works. And and that's why the debt avalanche does not work. That's right. Or consolidation, you know, when people Exactly, cuz you don't change your habits.

>> That's right. The debt avalanche is where you lit it's a you know, you list your it's mathematically correct. Well, honey, if we're doing math, we wouldn't have credit card debt.

It's a stupid problem. That's what we have to fix, the stupid, not the math.

And so the math is you know, we're going to list it highest interest rate to smallest interest rate because this interest rate's killing me. And here's the problem.

While that sounds like it's mathematically correct, it's not because your math that you're using is very naive and you left variables out of the math formula. Here's a variable you left out of your math formula.

Probability of completion.

If your probability of completion is 80 or 90% with a snowball, but the math is

running against you, when net of probability of completion, it's going to beat the avalanche cuz the probability completion's close to zero.

Almost no one finishes that cuz there's no feedback loop, no dopamine release, no hope release, no sacrifice increase, no getting the spouse on board cuz this crap's starting to work. For the first time in my life, I'm telling money what to do instead of it telling me what to do. I am not relinquishing this control ever again. You start getting a little swagger, man.

You're ready to go. That's true. >> And that's why this thing works and and and why it's so many millions of people have gotten out of debt using the Ramsey system, which is just freaking common sense.

So Northwestern University did a study

uh of the debt snowball versus the avalanche.

And they concluded because of probability of completion that the snowball was far superior because if you quit and you don't get out of debt using the mathematically superior, which is not really mathematically superior, it doesn't work. >> That's right. >> So, you don't get completion, you don't get to the goal. So, and then Time magazine comes out and does a story on the Northwestern studio Northwestern study and they go, "Turns out Dave Ramsey was right." >> [laughter] >> Like we didn't already know that. We've got like millions of proof text here.

We've got so much social proof on this that's unbelievable. We beat your research project into submission. So, good God, people. This is not that hard.

Get your butt out of debt. Your number

one wealth building tool is your income.

And when you're giving it to stupid Bank of America, Lexus Motor Credit, and MasterCard, who's your master of your life? You You know, and you wonder why you work so hard to make a hundred thousand dollars a year and I got nothing. It's cuz you're giving it all to these stupid banks. And you've got to

get back control of your life. You dis- You work too hard to be broke, people.

You need to retain control of your life.

This is so empowering. It is. So, Dave, get a little bit more tactical because we know, okay, we're listening to smallest to largest. Okay, Dave, I will do the debt snowball method, but what Where do cars fit into that? You're telling people all the time to sell their car. That's not my smallest debt.

Do I do it first? Do I wait until I get to that on the debt snowball? When do I sell my car? The rule is if you can pay the car off and all the other debt within 2 years, not counting your house,

and you like the car, keep it in the debt snowball and pay it off.

But if the car is keeping you from making it out in 2 years, if it's one of

the reasons, okay?

But if you got a $5,000 car and a $200,000 student loan, the car is not your problem. >> That's right. But you got a $70,000 car and a $6,000 student loan, You got a shoe. and you can't make it out in 2 years, well, it's the car, stupid.

You know, so get rid of the dumb car. So, can you get rid of the thing and do you like it? Well, I hate it. Well, get rid of it anyway then.

It's You You get rid of it even if you weren't broke cuz you don't like the stupid thing. But I love the car and I can pay it off and all of my other debts with the money I have in savings and the money I can earn in using the debt snowball during a 2-year period of time, then keep the car. I'm fine with that. >> Yeah.

And the only exception would be the IRS. That's the only thing that jumps to the top of the list.

>> child support. >> Child support. Yeah. Anything like that goes to the front of the list cuz they're going to come get it anyway. That's right. >> support, you take care of babies before you do any of this. Shut up. But the You know, the IRS [music] is going to get their their pound of flesh, so you need to put them at the front and get rid of them as soon as possible. They have collection abilities nobody else has. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host.

Sarah is in Virginia Beach. Hi, Sarah.

How are you?

Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Um actually, I have a question about uh

debt and merging everything. I'm a newlywed. Um me and my husband recently got married in December 12th, 2024.

And I didn't know that he wasn't as

financially responsible as I thought. Um

he has, I guess, been more secretive about his debt. I'm a bit more like open

about it. And he wants to merge accounts, but I'm not comfortable with doing it as of yet because he's kind of been very secretive and has lied um to me about certain debts. And I'm working on now using like your plan to get myself out of debt because I bought a home uh before we got married back in 2023. I have a car I'm working on paying off, which is supposed to be paid off uh later maybe next year.

Um and a couple other few debts, but he has many more that I'm I wasn't aware of and some that I think he's secretive about still. We're going to marriage counseling, but Good.

don't know how to be more comfortable with merging our accounts together and

feel like we'll be deeper in debt versus trying to have more assets. Give me an example. So, let's clarify because part of part of the solution um to the problem

is you merging accounts because when you merge them, then you can see everything that's going on, right? There's transparency there. So, give me an example of what that the bill was and he said it was 300, but really it was 3,000. Tell me an example of what that is.

Yeah, so when we um when he moved into

the home um out of his rental, it was that he wasn't making enough at the moment because he needed to still finish paying off um like electricity bills, gas bills, things like that. So, I told him, "Okay, how long did you need to do that?" And it was about 2 months. Okay.

>> And so, when I was waiting for that time

frame, I had got a bill in the mail and

it was from the gas company. And when I

had asked him if he paid it, he told me yes, but when I end up calling them, they told me that there was still a balance of $1,200 for a gas bill. So, it

was still >> asked him about that, what did he say?

He told me that it was paid. Um I never

informed him that I called them until a little later and he told me that he would end up taking care of it. So, I mean, when you said, "I called them and you lied, you didn't pay it," what did he say?

He just said that I did. It was It was just firm He was firm about that he did pay it until I showed him like the bill.

>> And then was he like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't realize there was still an outstanding balance?" We're just really trying to get an Here's what I'm trying to get an understanding of. >> with a liar?

Or are you dealing with somebody who's disorganized and chaotic?

>> Right. It's more um he he has lied about many many things. Um with It just surprises me. Yeah. In how many months?

Yeah, it's been um I guess 10 months now, but 3 months into, yes, the marriage, I found out that he was lying.

So, everything before was being deceived into separate homes while we were courting and things and then got married and now everything's in the home and I'm seeing it more vividly. Okay. So,

here's here's what I'm trying to be clear about because there is part of this to Dave's point where some people are just extremely unorganized with their money. And as they learn to get more organized, things get better and better. And then there's another part of you guys are married and I'm wondering what the communication sounds like because of the communication is, "Did you pay the bill?" Yeah, and you're keeping it to yourself. No, he didn't. It's this much. Right?

All of that matters in this in this situation. Now, what I do think is if he's lying and it they weren't past lies, but they're lies that are continuing on now and you know about them. And if he's lying in other areas, not just money, then you do have a big problem on your hands.

Mhm. Yeah. You do You have a big enough problem you need to be in the marriage counselor's office early and often right now because your communication style isn't good. Cuz if At my house, if I said, "Hey, Sharon, did you pay that?" She says yes and I went, "I'm going to check." And I call and they go, "No, it's not paid." I would go, "Hey, I called them. They didn't pay it." I wouldn't wait 3 days and stew about it.

I'd walk in there right then and go, [clears throat] "Hey, what's up? You said you paid this." Right. Like right then. And she would be going, "I thought I did.

I screwed up." Or "I was I was ashamed." Or "I was scared." Or whatever. But at least we get to the bottom of it right then. We don't carry it around for 4 weeks and and then label her a liar. >> Mhm.

Because >> That's a bad thing to be married to. And what I'm trying to understand from the beginning of your call is you're saying now he wants to combine money, but you're the one who's afraid to. So, I'm trying to understand if he's trying to make it right by saying, "Okay, let's just put everything together, then I don't have to try to, you know, keep something over here while you have it over here." But you're saying now I don't feel comfortable doing that. It's too late.

You're married. Right. Are you worried >> Yeah. What can he do?

What do you think he's going to do if you combine finances?

I think he's going to spend more because I'm uh like What is the term people use?

Like the breadwinner. So, I make majority of the funds. He helps pay like

since we didn't have a merged account, he would just What What What does he make? What does he make?

Uh that's another thing. He's kind of private about that, too. So, he works for a cable company and it's supposed to be quote unquote $12 an hour, but they have a point system. So, week to week, sometimes he says he makes $500.

Um sometimes it's only 300 and he doesn't >> direct deposited into your joint account then if you combine finances? Is it, "Hey, now we direct deposit all of our paychecks into this account, not you get paid and then put money into a merged account. All direct deposits go into the same account. That's how it works.

And that's the only way we're doing this. >> right. Then we know what he's making.

>> Mhm. And what do you make? >> discussion. That's the question.

Um so, I make uh 62,000 and some change a

year. Um And how long did y'all date before you got married 3 months ago?

Uh it was um

2 years, about 2 years.

>> And how many times have you sat with your marriage counselor in the last 3 months?

Uh we've been going consistently

it's like once every 3 weeks and now he's going one-on-one with the counselor and I go one-on-one with a woman counselor. Okay. Well, that's good that you're doing that.

Um And [clears throat] at some point we have to combine that process, too.

>> Mhm. All right. Um >> he's a bit of a spender as well, so it kind of makes me That's I guess that's where it gets me a little nervous >> the thing. Here's the thing, okay?

If you put all of your money into one account >> Mhm.

If he does otherwise, you're dealing with someone who can't keep a contract now with his wife. And then then we got a problem there.

That's a different kind of problem.

Okay? But you're not solving a spender by staying separate from them.

>> Mhm. Combining is the only way to get transparency and accountability on where

every dollar is going.

And you need to talk to your counselor about the language you are using towards your husband. Yeah. You have contempt all in your language. >> Exactly. You're rolling your eyes like you're so much better than him on every subject. And that is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, the primary reason [music] people get divorced when contempt rolls in. So, you've got to solve for that or this marriage isn't going to make it.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality is my co-host. 888-825-5225. [music]

Anna is in Austin, Texas. Hi Anna, how

are you? Hi Dave, I'm good. How are you?

[clears throat] Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I received this weekend I received some devastating news that my husband was scammed out of our his almost his entire 401k. Ooh. And um

now it's tax time and um we're going to have to pay taxes on it.

So, we have no more retirement and our savings is going to be wiped out.

And um

I don't know where to begin from here.

What did he How did he get scammed? What did you put it in?

It was a crypto. Crypto?

>> It was a Yes. How much?

>> And it was

270,000.

270,000?

Yes, sir. Oof.

And there's there's a little bit of a backstory. I'm not making excuses for him, but there's a little bit of a backstory as to why he felt financially strapped that he felt he needed to do this to secure a financial our our financial future.

Um How old How old are y'all?

I'm 57, he's 58.

Um we have no debt.

We paid off our home in February of 2022.

What's your household What's your household income?

He Right now I He right now he makes approximately 98,000 Mhm. annually and

I I'm currently not working. I um

had to quit my job in January of 2023 because um I was diagnosed with cancer and

the medication that I'm on just causes me a lot of side effects that we chose it's better for me to stay home cuz because we could afford it. Mhm.

Obviously, we have no debt again and um

he was I think he He was looking into securing our future so that he may be able to retire early.

He started um doing some research as to how to invest money. He knows nothing about He's not He's not educated in that, so Yeah, your your voice is fairly muffled.

Speak directly into your phone, please.

Okay. There you go. >> Um he's not Okay.

He's not um No, he's obviously even if

he is educated, he's not wise. Mhm. And he got desperate, it sounded like.

>> He He did and the way When I try to get desperate, I usually get stupid.

And that's what it was and oh So, that happened in January 2024.

And in about March or April, he came up to me and told me that um that he had invested a little bit of money and I was like, okay. Um and he says and he showed

me that it was he showed me that the app and he showed me that the money was I mean, we had made it made about 3 or 400,000.

And I said, okay, well, how much did you invest? And he told me at that time he

said 30,000. I said, where did you get the money from cuz I take care of all the banking. And he said that he pulled it out of the 401k.

And I said, okay, no mistake.

You know, we'll get we'll get through this. I found a temporary job. I made enough money to cover the taxes. I only made I I calculated we probably owe about 6,000

um for taxes. I said, okay, great. Well, I'll take care of it and I'll get a permanent job so it won't affect our savings.

And now that it's tax time, I kept looking for the the form that comes in, the 1099-R, I believe, and he kept making

excuses as to why he hasn't gotten he had we hadn't received it.

So, I kind of had a feeling that it was worse than what I knew and uh that it was worse than what he had told me and this weekend he gave me the paper and it was 270,000.

So, now we will have to And now it's worth zero, of course.

And yes, well, he I looked at it last night and there was about 16,000 in it right now, but Was it really a scam or did he just lose? Like did he get scammed by a scammer or he invested the money and he lost the investment? No, it was an an actual scammer. I had demanded

that I back when he told me it was 30,000, I demanded to know where he sent it, how he sent it. I I wanted to know everything and apparently it was a company in Hong Kong and um I I looked at the address and it's it's it's in the slums of Hong Kong. I'm like, why didn't you do the research before?

Well, the thing is now, he said that it was a the 200 I'm like, how can you how can it go from 30,000 to 270,000?

And he said it was about the same time it he invested here, you know, in a couple different >> Okay, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. >> Yes, sir. Does he now own that this is stupid or is he still defending?

No. No, he owns it. He's been living with us for the past year and it's

I mean, he had he's Well, he was lying about it 20 minutes ago. >> Yeah, you said he just came clean with it.

Yeah, he he just came clean with it, but he was living with that lie for the for the past year. >> he's now saying out loud I completely screwed this up.

Yes, he has. >> That's important because otherwise he's going to do it again.

Right. And he's like he I I'm prepared

to work till I'm 70. I mean Yeah, he might as well. good job right now. And yeah. It's not a choice at this point.

Belly up, buddy.

How's your How's your health? Are you improving?

It's getting there. I I'm on a clinical trial. Okay. Um and so I'm I'm hoping

that this will be something that will, you know, give me more time and um I feel pretty good except you know, just the usual side effects. I mean, not the usual, but the side effects of the medication. But thank you. I'm I'm happy that, you know, every day is a good day and I'm not going to let this bring me down, but it it does scare me for our future And the good news is you have no payments.

And so what he needs to do is max out his 401k and you all need to max out your Roth IRAs.

And um you need to tell him that if he

makes any transactions without the two of you being in agreement ever again, that that will be the last time he'll do so as your husband.

Absolutely. He needs to understand that this has extreme consequences.

Because he not only did something stupid, he lied about it.

At length, deceived, created a web, a

full scenario of lies.

That concerns me actually more than his stupidity.

Correct. And so um you know, that's a

big deal. So yeah, you guys can catch up. I mean, you can make 100, 120 and you can max out your 401ks and Roth's max out your Roth's and work another 10 years, 12 years and you will have enough of an nest egg to retire on if you don't do this again.

But as soon as he gets desperate and tries to pull off a fast one, that's when you get messed over. And so ouch, I'm so sorry, honey, with everything you're facing. It's just not fair.

Wow. I Guys, let me give you a couple principles on that. There's a guy who scammed a bunch of people and wrote a book from jail in the 70s. The book he wrote about himself was Con Man or Saint.

Obviously, he thought he was a saint, but he was in jail, so he was a con man. Okay? But there was a I read that book in the in the early 80s and as a teenager, early 20s.

someone unless they are afraid or greedy.

This guy was afraid. Mhm. His wife had cancer. He's trying to get a bunch of money so that he cannot have to work and take care of her. Yeah. And he got desperate based on fear and he said that set him up in the emotional category to be conned.

The other crypto people that get conned are the greedy ones. They're trying to make double your money in 20 minutes because I'm the cool kid and I'm the smart one and I grew up with a cell phone in my hand, a smart phone in my hand, so I know everything about digital. No, you don't.

You're a greedy fool and you're going to lose your butt in crypto also.

The second thing you cannot you can do is who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above ruby rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her and he will have no lack of gain. If you have to hide the investment or the financial move from your spouse, warning

warning warning, you're screwing up.

I have no [music] lack of gain because Sharon and I talk about it before we do it. And it keeps me on the rails.

This is the Ramsey show.

>> [music]

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Check it out. South Dakota's calling.

Sarah's with us. Hi, Sarah.

Hey, how are you guys today? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

Well, see, just have a quick question.

So um my husband and I got a term life insurance policy through Zander when our son was first born. Mhm. Um but that was 15 years ago and um since then life has shifted a little bit. Um we are still making progress with our debt snowball.

Um we're actually planning to pay off our last debt um by um hopefully February. Um

however, we're not there yet. Um but

over the years our income has increased quite quite a bit. So when we were first married, we were making about 70 combined. Now we're making about 180.

Uh so my question is um Why has it taken

you 15 years to get out of debt?

Well, you know, maybe we're not so gazelle intense. >> Like not at all. Okay. Right. Right.

But we're getting there now.

Um so we're getting really close and we >> So you Every that you still have a mortgage and you still have what else?

Uh we have 8,000 on my student loan and

we've got our mortgage and that is all we have left. >> Wow. So what's the question today?

So the question today, we are curious, do we need to consider increasing our life insurance through Zander um given that our income has gone up?

Um I know their recommendation is like 10 to 12% That's right.

your overall income. Or because we're so close to being debt free, do we

not need to take that approach cuz ultimately we'll be self-funded through insurance. No, you need to extend because self being self-insured would denote that you've got a massive nest egg of wealth that can cover you when

those situations arise and you don't have that just yet. If you keep going with intensity, you will. But if you play the next 15 years like you've paid the played this last 15 years, You're still going to be in debt. Mhm.

You'll still have a mortgage.

Well, we are definitely not looking to

do that. We're definitely looking to get to tackle that mortgage as soon as the student loan's paid off. So everything >> When you have enough money When you have enough money in investments that the income off of the investments will support you if he dies,

then you're self-insured.

You're not there.

We want you to be okay if something happens to him.

And you're not there.

Okay? Um and we want him to be okay if something happens to you and make sure the kiddos are fed and so forth. And that would be that, you know, and so if you had a million dollars and it was producing uh 10% that'd be 100,000

dollars.

Mhm. Okay? And that's not even that won't even take care of you now cuz you're making 180.

And so you'd need about 2 million dollars in investments right now and zero debt in order to be self-insured equal to, you know, having the right amount of life insurance. So no, yeah, you need to increase your life insurance and buy new policies.

Yeah, if your 15-year fixed policy is running out, buy buy new ones. Yeah. And um

Yeah, and here's the thing, if if you do get intense, um if that did happen and you get out of debt and you look up and there's a million or two million dollars in investments and zero debt, you can cancel the life insurance.

You don't have to keep paying it. You can just call them and cancel it.

But um if you're not if you don't smoke, folks, and you're not overweight, life insurance don't cost anything.

It's very inexpensive.

>> Very. So 15-year level, 15 to 20-year level

fixed rate. And the idea is that during

that 15 years, you pay off your mortgage and >> And get out of debt. And you build up some investments. And the kids grow up and leave >> That's right. >> during that 15 to 20 years. And so we don't have kiddos to take care of, we've got a pile of money, and you you work your way into a net worth that allows you to be self-insured. >> And so, but you guys have been slow,

so you get to re-up your life insurance.

And uh and then you can always drop it later, but for right now you're not ready. It's a good question. Yeah.

Felix is in Los Angeles. Hi Felix, how are you?

Hi Dave. Uh thank you so much for the opportunity uh to be on the show. Sure.

Um I'm calling today to get more to get your advice on my current living situation. Uh I work for a government uh utilities agency in Los Angeles as a engineer.

Uh I currently live in downtown LA. Uh

I'm paying about $3,000 in rent per

month. And uh I just turned 30 this

year. And I watch your show, I hear, you know, your advice about ownership and owning a home someday. Mhm. And that's

uh a goal for mine for my for my life as well. And I wanted to get your thoughts on, you know, renewing uh my lease which expires uh this month

or going back home to stay with my parents. Mhm. Well, how much do you bring home every month?

Uh so after tax, I bring home about

um somewhere between $6,000 and $6,500.

So >> Um your what you're telling me is your rent's 50% of your take home.

Yes. Uh it's Yes, it's around that. Uh

if you include utilities and, you know, >> Yeah, I know it. >> Yeah. >> So I think you know there's there's one

of two things that can happen here. You can either figure out a way to bust free and suddenly make $20,000,

you know, a month or you can look for some place that's far less expensive for

rent. What would you do if you moved, you know, away and moved towards where your family is? What would you do for a living? >> [sighs] >> Uh well, I would still be an engineer.

Um I my my my my family stays in uh

Fontana, which is about maybe uh 50 miles away from Los Angeles. So I would I would I would I would I would I would I would I would I would I would I would >> Uh yes, I have a bachelor's in civil engineering and I have a master's in environmental engineering. And you make $70,000 a year?

Well, that's that's No, I make around $105,000 a year. >> And how long you've been out of school?

Uh I graduated with my master's in 2023

and shortly after is when I moved to LA and got my my job in Los Angeles. Yeah, I mean you're living in one of the most expensive places in the country.

So that there is always going to be a limit because of that.

So I I If I were in your shoes, yeah, I'd be looking for other place. Now Fontana that you mentioned, I mean have you priced it out? What's the difference? What could Where could you Could you get a one bedroom and what would it cost? Would it get you to the 25% range?

Uh well, in in LA, um it's it's it's very

difficult to to find a place to stay.

Um I'm talking about Fontana like you said.

I'll I'll be staying with my parents.

Okay, so Felix, here's the thing.

What you want Staying with your parents is not your is not your play. >> Mhm. Because it doesn't take you to the future you want. You've said no you've said nothing about where you want to be in 20 years, in 10 years, and and how

staying with your parents is going to get you there. All we're doing solving the immediate problem by going backwards. So no, I'm not going to do that. If I'm you, I'm looking for a new job that pays 150,000 in a market where the rent is half of what it is in LA.

And you make a move. If for your career, you're a single guy and you go out there and make some money and get your cost of housing down because it If you're working for a utility, your bumps, your increases in pay are going to be moderate to poor.

Yeah, it's a it's a government it's a government it's a government job. So Yeah, it's going to be moderate to poor.

The pay is already low and it's not going to get better.

It you're going to get cost of living bumps and nothing else. And so as an engineer, you can go out there and make twice what you're making now in an area that costs half what it costs to live in LA. And that puts you in a position to build a life, a financial life, including home ownership. But the ratio you're giving me right now, going back to your parents doesn't solve it. No. That's regressing

instead of saying, "How can I move forward?" So I'm going to be figuring out a way to move forward, either a different kind of engineer application for my master's in engineering in Los Angeles where I make a lot more or a different city or both.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thanks for being with us, America. Luke is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi Luke, welcome to the show.

Hello. Hi. >> How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

So I can can I kind of use uh I got a unique situation here. Uh 22 years old, household income of 90,000.

We inherited inherited 6 acres of land

and decided to build a house on it. We don't have any debt. We have not taken any loans on the house. I built it so far where we got the roof, walls, and siding. And uh almost done with utilities.

But uh our goal is that uh I pay for all the bills and then my wife, she pays for all the uh materials for the house. My question is should I uh take what's excess of my income after

bills and throw it towards the house or put it towards retirement?

Okay, you're trying to build a house out of your pocket and so far you have, but you and your wife have separate finances.

Uh well, we work together in finances, but >> Not really. Not really. You got you you've delegated part of it to her and part of it to you. You don't have one pile. So you need one pile of money.

Her money, your money is our money. One big pile. Out of that pile, what is our first goal? I would assume it's to finish the house, isn't it?

Yes, sir. So what does it take to finish the house money-wise? How much money?

We're looking at probably about 10 grand left. We got drywall, insulation, and paint. Okay. How long if you pile all your money, you and your wife, our money in one pile, how long does it take you to come up with 10 grand?

Uh well, >> [snorts] >> probably a month or two.

Yeah. Okay. So let's finish the house.

And then then you need to make sure you have an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses and then take 15% of your

household income, our income, and start that towards retirement. That's baby step four. But you're going to be living in a paid-for house. That's nice. You got this acreage and you built the house. You She got a lot of sweat in it and you're going to have a bunch of equity, right?

Oh, yeah, for sure. >> What's this finished product going to be worth, acreage and house total?

We're hoping for 250. Good. Very cool.

And you said you're 26?

I'm 22. 22? >> Wow. >> Okay, wow. And your household income, if we put both of your money in one pile, is how much a year?

90,000.

How much? 90,000. 90,000. That's the two of you combined. Okay, good. I make 62, she makes 28.

Okay, cool. Perfect. Yeah, so let's take 15% of 90,000 after we get the emergency fund in place and you're sitting on $250,000 house, you're going to be millionaires before you're 30. Woo.

That's exciting. Isn't that fun? Mhm. I hope they take your advice and put their money in one pile.

Well, that's the thing. Yeah, so um there's Yeah. There's just so much data that says when you do that that you're higher probability of winning at marriage, winning at relationship, winning at everything. Um and let's circle back and say this.

Nothing to do with Luke's call, but just this cuz we get so much bull crap on social media about telling people to put their money together. Um you should be independent. No, you shouldn't be independent if you're married. That's a dumb butt idea. This is how your marriage doesn't work.

Because you're so strung out on you that you're worthless as a spouse.

So that that's the problem. So no, you don't need to be independent. You need to be one. The preacher said and now you are one.

One. Uno.

Unity. All in one.

And so if we know, and we do know that the data tells us in America today, the number one cause of divorce is money fights and money problems. The number one solution to that is learning to dream together and put our money together and handle our problems and our

challenges and our opportunities and our dreams together. That is the solution where you don't have money problems cause divorce. If we have the solution to the number one cause of divorce, why are you arguing with us?

That's just dumb.

>> [laughter] >> Because people out there are dumb and we will always have a show for that reason.

So there it is. Not all people out there are dumb, but enough of them are dumb, but we will always have this show. Are they dumb, Dave, or do they do dumb things? >> Ignorant is different than dumb. That's good. I think that's >> I don't know how. Ignorant is I There's some things I'm ignorant of, by the way.

I don't know how. I used to know when I was a young redneck, I used to know how to work on a car. But now a car looks like a spaceship when I open the hood. >> [laughter] >> And so I can't even I don't know if I can jump the thing. I don't even get a jumper cable on it nowadays without blowing it up. So you know, I'm so but so I I don't know

how to work on that car. I doesn't mean I'm dumb. It means I'm ignorant. I don't know how to do that. But then don't argue with experts when you're ignorant.

Cuz it makes you look dumb.

>> [laughter] >> I'll take that, Dave. I'll take that.

Get holy.

WOW.

And Luke was doing none of that. Luke's a sharp young guy. He's 22. Man, he's got it going on, doesn't he? Yeah, oh most definitely. I don't even I was nowhere near that. So Yeah, >> [laughter] >> I don't even want to talk about it.

Jason was in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hi, Jason. How are you?

Hey guys, how are y'all? Can y'all hear me okay? Yes. What's up?

Good. Good. Hey, I just had a quick question for you. I'll give you a quick quick rundown on my situation. I'm trying to decide if I should sell my house.

I live about an hour outside of the Carolina metros right now and I'm I'm planning to make a move this summer.

Um I'm self-employed. I sell real estate and so in my new market I'm going to have to um kind of start from the ground up. Um I'm near the end of baby step two. Um if this move wasn't happening I'd be done probably by June or July, maybe August. Um The flip side uh so the question is basically >> you going to live when you move?

I'm going to rent. Okay.

And so your question is whether to keep your house or not?

Yeah, uh so I'm in a unique position Yeah, I bought >> You don't need to be a renter and be a landlord. That's bass-ackwards.

That was risky, Dave.

That was very risky.

>> what I needed to know. >> Yeah, I mean really, think about it. That's backwards. You don't want to do that.

So no, you need to um get get you know, get You're in the real estate business. You're going to get plenty of opportunities to own a property and live in a house that you pay cash for and or buy it and then get it paid off as quick as you can. Hanging onto this boat anchor that represents your former life out in the burbs when you're moving into the metro and having to deal with that while you're trying to learn to sell real estate and trying to get your business moving, nah.

Okay. Yeah. That's where my mind was and I thought that was right. I just wanted to make sure. Yeah, you're you're right on track, man. You're right on track. So there you go. Here's the thing. It's interesting um

real estate is such an emotional topic because it it has these two strange elements to it. Strange element number one is it is an excellent way

to build wealth when you do it right as a part of your long-term plan. Right.

That give then gets confused with it's always smart no matter what. That's a good point, Dave. And it's not.

Sometimes real estate doing a real estate deal in the wrong situation in your life could be not you know, in Jason's it's just it's just a bad idea, but in other people's it's even way over into the stupid zone. Yeah, for sure. >> And so real estate is it's weird. It it is because it's a blessing when you do it right, that gives everybody permission to do it even wrong and it becomes a curse.

Yeah. And I think also the other thing that I think we're fighting now is so many people had properties that they locked in at a better interest rate and so then when life moves them they feel like, yeah, it's a good deal, maybe I shouldn't get rid of it even though I'm moving, I should keep it.

>> like because real estate is good >> Mhm. I can't everything I do with it is going to be smart. >> Right, it just falls in line. >> like, no, it's not going to be smart.

You you know, it's not smart. The only way that you know, no, there's a good time to cut real estate loose. Mhm. There's a good time for it to not be there.

And buying buying real estate you can't afford, buying a house you can't afford. We had that earlier in the hour.

That's cool. But we got to sell the house we bought a house we can't afford. So it's not a blessing anymore. It's a curse. It's a problem.

>> Yes. So doing it wrong or keeping it wrong or because real estate's good, it's not always good. Yeah. Because and it's not that real estate is actually real estate is always good. It's the life situation you're in doesn't match up with owning real estate right then. Yeah. And so it's not always good to keep your old house and rent it. Matter of fact it seldom is. Very seldom. This is the

Ramsey show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

Alyssa is with us in Chicago. Hi, Alyssa. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

My question is how much is too much to spend on a wedding?

Okay. So that >> How much are you thinking about spending?

60,000. Ooh. Nice wedding. Good. Okay.

Do you have 60,000?

Uh so we're actively saving to get to We

have about half right now. So by next September when the wedding would be we would have that. So mom and dad aren't chipping in. That's you and him paying for it.

We are going with the intention that we're paying for it. They've briefly mentioned that they might contribute, but no hard numbers have been given or anything like that. Okay. So you're assuming it's all on you. So what do you make? >> Yeah.

I make 90 before What's he make?

>> commission. 190. Cool. Do you guys have any debt?

No debt. Wow. It's not too much.

It's not too much. Okay. No, not if you pay cash. That's exciting. >> Okay. You You want to know how I did that?

Yes. Here's fun. Okay. Average household income in America right now is about $75,000.

The average wedding in America is about $36,000.

It's about half of the average income.

So if you spend more than half your annual income on your wedding and if you're paying for all of it which it sounds like you are. Okay.

Um then you're spending too much on a wedding cuz you're more than half the average. Now, here's the thing to keep in mind. Average kind of sucks in America. We don't necessarily want to be average, but but you're below 50% of

your your uh way below 50% of your $270,000

income.

And so you're you're you're as on a ratio basis you are

half of the national average.

Which is half. >> [laughter] >> Weird way to say that, but yeah. So I mean the national average would put if you if you spent 50% of your all's income it'd be 135.

>> So you're well below what the average person is doing. >> half of that at 60. And so you're you're very conservative as a ratio.

But now for somebody that makes 100 grand it sounds like that you know,

Alyssa's lost her mind. You know, but that's what people say that don't have any money and and you've got some money.

So Yeah, when you have more money you can spend more of it. Without it being a problem. >> Yeah. So And if that doesn't include the honeymoon and we added I don't know, 10

or 15 on top of that it would still be okay. >> about the wedding. Honeymoon's a different different story. >> think that'd be fine. And the engagement ring is another story. Okay. But um Yeah, that's a good differential though when we're talk about talking about the wedding. There are those three components. There's the rings, then there's the actual party and then there's your honeymoon. >> What do y'all do for a living?

I do medical sales and he does product

management. Cool. Okay. Well, he's going to really like this last suggestion. We've done three weddings at the Ramsey's. I've got three kids that are all married and been married many many years. Okay. And Ramsey's we like a big party. We like to celebrate stuff like that. And so

we we threw major parties on each of these weddings. It was a lot of fun.

But we learned and that and we did it from the first one. We introduced this idea that for your fiance will love me,

your wedding is a project.

So let's lay out a budget. Yeah. In detail. If we're going to spend 60, how much of that's the dress? How much of that's the reception? How much of that's the videographer? How much of that's the preacher? How much is the venue?

And you lay out a budget. And then guess what? You stick to the budget.

>> would be my word of wise for you, Alyssa, cuz when you when you hear what Dave said, which is Yeah, which is technically you could be spending more if you were being quote average. So for you, the hard part is going to say, even though we could spend more, we're going to stick to what we said in the beginning of 60,000.

>> Yeah, I would pretend like that that you work for someone and your job was to manage a $60,000 budget and bring the event in on budget.

On schedule.

It cuz you're managing a project. It's an event project. I mean, we manage events here. It's what it is. And so this is what >> if you went over someone else's budget.

>> you if you work for somebody, you get fired if you screwed it up, right? So that just treat it like it's serious business and and I know that it doesn't very romantic, but people use romance as a way to do a lot of stupid butt stuff. So no, we're not doing that. So no, just lay it out exactly and you say this is and you can pull up some percentages.

There's some good guidelines online for how much to spend on the dress.

Like how many people you think I mean, 60,000 you're thinking about inviting a decent number of people, aren't you?

It's not huge. So we've already booked the venue and we're going through that process, but I'm more of the saver and he's more of the spender. And so thinking of kind of the rough estimate that we put together with all the, you know, videographer, photographer and all that, it it just sounds like a lot of money.

So I Yeah, I would but here's the thing.

You you'll get >> and not You know what I'm saying? You know what I mean when I say scope creep?

Yes. >> Yeah, this project this thing will creep up and the 60 will turn into 80. Mhm. If you do not if you do not line item this and no rough estimates is freaking what we're going to do.

And then when you're meeting with the caterer and they go, well, we can add that. Well, no. No, this is all we got. This is what we're doing.

And well, you know, we could spend, you know, freaking $85,000 on flowers. Who's getting married here? Princess Di? I mean, seriously.

So, you know, you we're going to go in the field, pick some wildflowers so that we we stay on budget.

>> Well, if nothing else, plan for 54, so at least you've got 10%

set aside just as contingency. Oh.

>> That's what I'd do. A little slush fund in the line up. >> just in case. >> Yeah, a little just in case fund. I'd have something in there for that. I don't know if I get away with that, but wow. Wow.

Yeah, that's exactly how I would do it. And Alyssa, I think you're approaching it very wisely.

You're not counting on the people who have been vague about their possible input. That way you're not under their control. Matter of fact, whatever they come forth with, I'd probably just use that for the honeymoon. I just lock this baby down on 60. And just go, we're doing it. And you and the fiance sit down, agree to that, go this is a project like you manage at work. We're going to manage this. We're going to come in on budget. We're going to get the details out because there's always something that you can go higher.

You can always go one bigger, one better on everything. >> the extra large shrimp instead of the large shrimp. What was the thing on Father [laughter] of the Bride? Cheaper chicken.

What's the cheaper chicken? Yeah. You get ice sculptures. Yeah, that's it.

And so yeah, you can do it and you can do that on a $10,000 budget. You can do it on a $60,000 budget. You can do it on whatever. You just manage the budget.

>> That's right. >> This is what we're doing. And so it's just we're going to have to get super creative if we're going to do this for 7,800 bucks. We had a lady here on the team that got married and had a really nice little wedding for 7,000 bucks and she just slam you know, they they were trying to get out of debt and that's what they were going to spend and it was it was really very nice.

Can I tell you the Okay, Sam and I paid for our wedding out of pocket. Oh, it was like 10,000.

It was a little bit more. But I my biggest regret to this day and it was in the name of doing it debt free. We didn't have an open bar.

No open bar. That's your that's your regret that you didn't booze up everybody else for free?

>> we were on a yacht. We were just made sense. You should have had There should have been some drinks on board and there wasn't. >> you didn't have a oh a There was no open bar. >> no bar? No. >> No what not they couldn't even pay?

No. Open bar would be like you paid.

>> No. Well, I felt it was tacky to have people pay, so there just was no bar. Just no. Oh, well, okay. I'll go with that. Okay, but yeah. >> Listen, it was a mistake. That's okay.

You know what? They don't remember it.

You're the only one that does. >> so. I don't know about that, but >> Sam doesn't EVEN REMEMBER IT. >> [laughter]

[music]

[music] >> JADE WARSHAW, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. I am Dave Ramsey, your host.

Katrina is with us in Salt Lake City.

Hi, Katrina. How are you?

Hi, I'm fantastic. Thank you so much for asking. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

All right. So I am going through a divorce and it's really hurting me financially.

So I'm wondering if I should take money out of my business account that I'm actually trying to sell because of the divorce and use some of that

money to buy things for my primary job.

So >> primary job? I am a school teacher and tomorrow I go back to school and the kids come back next Tuesday.

But I need to buy some supplies for the students to come back to school.

Um for >> they don't furnish you supplies for the classroom like they should. Well, they give me >> Which would make you every school teacher in America. Well, yeah, thank you. They give me $5 a student, but I've already spent that. I bought glue sticks and colored pencils and pencil pouches for the students and and So what are you talking about spending?

I need paper, hand sanitizers, folders

and journals. What are you talking about spending?

Um I'm thinking I need about $200. What

type of business do you have? What's the nature of it? >> So So in yeah, in the evenings I run an escape room.

Um but I'm I have to sell it according to the divorce decree. I have to sell it

so I could pay um back some of the equity that I owe to my soon-to-be ex-husband.

>> take a you take you take a payroll from the business? Um I don't. It doesn't make enough money. So I just I run it um

and and then like it pays for everything. >> Okay, if $200 changes your life, you have other problems. >> Mhm. Well, right now I'm at I just I'm I'm barely

finished baby step number one. I've been using your EveryDollar app.

>> have to choose between you eating and buying your children hand sanitizer, you eat.

Okay, I get that.

>> Okay. And so if you you know, if you're down to nothing, if you have no money and $200 is a huge amount to you, where

you get it from doesn't matter. It's where you spend it that matters. You don't have the option to be this generous to these students. Contact a local church and ask them to help you with they've got some journals laying around and maybe they've got some hand sanitizer they can give you from the children's ministry and help you fund this, help you get the thing set up without you spending the $200 at Target

and you know, let's go that route cuz it sounds like this $200 is a lot of money to you. >> Yeah. And you've got you need to work on the other side of that and that's the overall income. I think I'm tutoring instead of running a a game room. >> room, yeah. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi if private student loan debt is taking away your peace of mind and you don't see any way out, you need Y Refi. That's Y the

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Might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Nora in Pennsylvania. She says, I've been married for almost 30 years and my husband and I have adult children. My husband runs his mother's family business. He will inherit the business when she passes, but he says that the business is not going to be mine if anything happens to him.

He says his will is going to state that our children will get the business and that he will not be providing for me.

Oof. I've explained to him how upsetting this is and that I shouldn't have to go to my children for help when it is his responsibility to care for me. I live on a fixed income uh my adult life as a stay-at-home mom.

What can I do to protect myself legally?

Wow. >> You can't.

So you have a you have a marriage problem. My goodness. You don't have a legal problem.

You're married to a jerk.

Um and that's a problem.

Yeah, I thought this question was going in one direction. And then it turned left and went off into the ditch.

>> did. Yeah. So, honey, you need to go see a marriage counselor and he's not going to go with you cuz he's right about everything. Um he doesn't need any help if you ask him. And of course, everybody else listening to this knows he's the one that needs the help, but you need to go to the marriage counselor and the marriage counselor is going to explain to you that your marriage is over

if you don't get some serious work done

on it. Woo. That rattling you're hearing under the hood means the engine's about to blow, kiddo.

And um this does not describe a loving

home where the husband is gentle, kind, and serves his wife.

I didn't hear anything like that in here. >> No. No. So sad.

Nora, I'm sorry.

But yeah, you need to go see a marriage counselor today. Tell tell him that he ought to go with you, but he won't. And then the marriage counselor will give you words to speak to him that lead to either him coming to the table or the end of your marriage. You can't go forward with this.

And uh after 30 years, he still chooses his mommy? Wow.

After 30 years, he's still a mama's boy.

Old men that are mama's boy are kind of pitiful. >> Uh that's the worst. Mama's boys are pitiful, period, after 4 years old. But

old men mama's boys, seriously pitiful.

Woo. And he's going to be one even after she's gone. >> means this guy is in his 50s.

>> Yeah. He's an old man mama's boy.

You can title the thumbnail on YouTube Old Man Mama's Boy. There you go. I thought she was going to say something I you know, as I was reading it, I thought, okay, this is a his mom's family business. It's going to pass to the children. Maybe she didn't want to run the business. You know what I mean? Cuz there's part of that where it's like I don't want this responsibility, but that took a hard left turn.

Woo, gracious.

Yeah.

Yeah, mamas don't let your boys become

Leave in Cleave.

Yeah, choose carefully, my darling.

Choose carefully.

Choose a man who loves his mother from a distance.

This is right.

Mama, I love you. Over there.

Listen, >> [laughter] >> I say that, but when the day comes when my son gets old enough where he has to go over there, I'm going to be sad.

>> I think it's one of the hardest child developmental things I've ever witnessed. As we raised kids, girls separate from their mom, but boys

when boys stay right there until they separate. When they separate, it's brutal. And it usually comes somewhere around 16 or 17 years old for people that become men. Oh, man. >> But boys who are mama's boy at 50, they never did cut the cord. And so, they're still tugging on her apron strings.

Mommy, mommy, mommy, I want the business. Mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy, would you take care of mommy? Mommy, I want to make sure you love me, mommy.

Oh, brother, [laughter] I think I'm going to puke. Oh, gosh.

Uh No, I want my son >> manhood crisis in this country, for sure. Wow. I mean, what this is not masculinity. It's not toxic masculinity.

It's just a child. >> and a controlling child. A very

controlling jerk of a child.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. Goodness gracious. After 30 years

>> Nora's husband, if you happen to end up listening to this, if you're not who she says she you are,

you need to understand how screwed up your marriage is that your wife wrote this letter to a nationally syndicated show that has hundreds of millions of

people download it every month.

So, if you're not this and she sent this in, you got stuff going on, dude. So, you still deserve butt butt tracks over your butt. So, we threw you right in front of the bus still. That's what happened. Maybe he'll write in a letter next. >> I hope so. I wish you would just come on the air and let us talk to him. How fun would that be? That would be compelling podcast material.

Oh, man.

Wow. Ouch. Yeah, that's This is a This >> Here's what's interesting.

The number one thing that will keep you from building wealth >> [music] >> is screwed up relationships. >> Bingo. That's so true. When you can't handle screwed up relationships and put reasonable, gentle, kind, [music] strong boundaries in place and keep the screwed up people at a distance and the right people up close and you can't [music] function with other humans, you're going to struggle building wealth. Period.

This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

>> Buying a house in this weird real estate market is weird. Selling a house in this weird real estate market is weird.

If you want to do it right, you really need a pro in your corner. Somebody that does a lot of transactions, not your Aunt Sally who got her license 3 weeks ago. Sorry, Aunt Sally. You don't qualify to be a Ramsey endorsed local provider that's Ramsey trusted.

We love you. We hope you do good in the real estate business, but we don't want you to sell a half a million dollar house for somebody we love and you've never sold a house. You need to be doing 30 to 50 to 100 transactions, 200 transactions a year. And then you can become the possible possibly become Ramsey trusted.

Teddy is in Traverse City, Michigan. Hi, Teddy, how are you?

I'm doing great, Dave. What a pleasure to speak to you today. You too, man.

What's up?

Well, I've been in debt most of my whole life between cars and I bought my wife and I bought a house. I am self-employed. Um my wife is retired after 32 years.

Um I make about $70,000 a year in salary. Um I have $1,400 a month in rental income from a home that we have purchased and paid off.

Um my wife makes about $400 a week in side hustle and she draws $1,500 a month

from her 401k.

Uh last year we got a HELOC loan for a

home addition. So, I still owe about $100,000 on that. I owe $20,000 on the

mortgage on the house we're living in now that we put the addition on, as well as $20,000 on a car.

Um we got about $1.1 million in retirement and of that, 210,000 is liquid investments. So, my question is, we've been working the debt snowball, but do I sell some of my investments and pay off this debt and just get it over with? Yep.

Yep. How old are you?

I'm 62 and my wife is 65. Yes.

If you take what you said, 1.2 and we turn it into one and you're 100% debt free, I'll take it.

I mean, you said you had you had 210,000 that was liquid.

I do. You can do it with It's not tied up in retirement. That's liquid. Oh, it's not retirement at all. So, you're not even going to have taxes on it. >> Yeah, I know. Well, maybe maybe a little gain on it. It may have been sitting there gaining, but but it's not might have a little capital gain. But so, it's not even going to be a 200 hit. It's uh be a 100 150 hit. Whatever. But either way, um you're 100% debt free. Now, that only works, Teddy, if you stop borrowing money.

Oh, I'm Yeah, I'm sorry, America. I've been in you know, bought a car. I bought to buy cars. >> I know. >> I'm real frugal. I'm real frugal. No, you're not. You're 66 with a stupid car payment.

Isn't that the truth? >> You're a millionaire with a car payment.

Yes, yes, that's right. >> Don't do that.

No, sir.

>> [laughter] >> All right, brother. Hey, seriously, if you go pay all this off and then run up another debt, you're just going to eat your nest egg up.

I can't wait to come and stand on the stage. You've inspired me. >> I love it, brother. I love it. You're a good man. Congratulations on being a millionaire. Good. Very cool.

Very cool. Isn't it funny how hard it is to get the culture out of our veins?

It's very I mean, it's it's yapping at us around every corner. You know? Every

Every corner. The That's why when someone's debt free house and everything, we say you're weird. Yeah.

Because you're you are. You're Weird just means unusual. It doesn't mean bad.

Well, the weird What makes you weird is you've decided to become independent in a culture that teaches you to constantly be dependent. >> Ooh. That's what the weird is.

Wow. >> Let it roll around in the brain for a while. That's strong.

That's strong. Well done.

All right, let's do it. Charlotte in Cincinnati. Hey, Charlotte, how are you?

Hey, good afternoon, Dave and crew.

Thank you so much for taking my call. I Sure. thoroughly enjoyed listening to your program. My question is um my just a tiny bit of my back story, my husband passed away in 2012 and as a

result of insurance money coming in, we were able to get debt free, my daughter and I, and we have stayed debt free, thank God.

And she just finished her freshman year in college. We have a tax free 529 plan.

Projected >> a what 529?

It's the what's called a cafeteria 529 plan but it's got a lot >> I didn't hear I didn't hear the word. Okay, cafeteria. Okay, I got you. All right, good. That's a good plan. >> So, um, so yeah, so we've got our college paid for as far as that's concerned. Um, but

um, unfortunately, the way that it's grown, there's a projectory uh, being like an $80,000 surplus Mhm.

at the at the end. Um, it's and I found

out that I could only put $35,000 in a Roth IRA in her name.

>> That's true. After she's 30.

Okay. >> Yeah. So, I'm a little bit concerned about like, um, can I take any of that overage? I mean,

>> So, how much is in the 529 total?

There's probably right now $189,000.

Okay, and how much did you put in and how much is growth?

Well, that's just that like it I only I think at the time I only put in like, I don't know, $85,000. Okay, she got a 100% growth. You got 100% growth.

>> Yeah. And of that 80's going to be if it keeps growing, it is even going to be more and so you'll have an 80 over. Is that what we're saying?

Yes. >> Is she getting any scholarships?

She is. Okay, you know you can pull that much out.

Of The equivalent of the scholarship can be pulled out each year.

No tax.

Equivalent to the scholarship. Okay.

>> So, she gets a $10,000 scholarship, pull $10,000 out. >> Mhm. That's actually an incentive to get more scholarships. Yeah.

Okay, cuz I I guess my tax preparer, he doesn't know about that. Is there any place that you could direct me as to where I could find good solid information about this kind of stuff?

>> A different tax preparer cuz that's pretty standard information.

I'm not even good at taxes and I know it.

So, yeah. Um, you know, if that's if that's one of our ELP's, I'm sorry but if it's not, check one of our endorsed local providers for taxes in your area and get a second opinion on it. But, you're allowed to pull the equivalent of scholarships out, athletic, academic, whatever the basis for the scholarship is, um, every year and there's zero tax on

it. So, she gets a scholarship, pull that much out. Do you know how much she got in scholarships?

Like last year, I mean, it was I don't know, it was around 10,000, I think. >> Yeah, okay. All right. That's not going to alleviate the problem completely cuz if it's times four, it's only 40,000, right? And um, and she's 80 over so you're going to have another 40 and I really wouldn't screw around with the out Roth IRA at age 30. I'd just go ahead and cash it out. It you don't get uh, it's not a 100% tax. You're just taxed and penalized on that amount of

growth only. That's why I was asking you what you had in it. And so, the calculation's not as severe as it sounds. Um, so let's say you end up pulling 40,000 bucks out cuz we just got rid of 40 with the scholarship idea.

Um, you know, you might have $5,000 in taxes. >> It's 10 It's 10%, yeah?

Is that the rate? >> Yeah, on the growth. >> Yeah. Yeah.

So, I could in essence take that money out and use it say like for a home improvement or something. >> it for anything if you pay the taxes on it. And there'll be the taxes and the penalty. There's a tax and a penalty both but it's maybe a 10 or a 15,000 out of that 40 you're going to lose but it's not 100% so they don't take the whole thing.

And and rather than try to screw around with something for a 22-year-old waiting until they're 30 and these idiots in Washington change the law six times between now and then. >> Yeah.

Good, life's good." Yeah, I agree.

>> Yeah. There you go. Hey, good question.

Thanks for calling. So, you know, that's a very [snorts] unusual problem. Uh, yeah, it's a good I think it's a good problem to have. >> Yeah. I mean, the only other thing is if they left it, I mean, it can pass like It could her as a beneficiary, she can pass it to her kids when the time, you know, when the time comes. That's way out there but Yeah, now we got 800 grand. That's [laughter] true. Yeah.

At that point, if you take the penalty, it might hurt a little bit more. Yeah.

>> [laughter] >> I think I think I'm going to go ahead and just be done with it and just say, "Hey, we did a great job. >> [music] >> We might have even done too good a job but just so slightly.

Just so slightly. You know, when I hit a golf [music] ball a little bit too long, I just say I hit it too well.

It's all it is. This is the Ramsey show.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day, Luke 6:38.

Give and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over will be poured into your lap.

J. Paul Getty says, "Money is like manure. >> [music] >> You have to spread it around or it smells." All right. I'll go I'll go with a little generosity. There we go.

Left in one pile, it stinks. Yes, I like that. That's good. Dylan is in Houston, Texas. Hi, Dylan. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hey, Dave and Jade. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world? Hey, I've got a question for y'all. I've kind of got two options. I'm working Baby Step number two currently with my wife. Um, we are about 71,000 in debt.

67 of that is student loans and 4,000 on a credit card. Mhm. Um, right now we're bringing in about 6,200 and I think it'll take us, you know, roughly five years to get out of that debt. So, that's kind of what I'm going to label as option one.

Option two is my wife can have the opportunity to travel with her job and we would be able to kind of sell our house, pay all that debt off instantly and then travel around for a couple more years while we save up for another down payment and and find a place that we want to stay for a while. In that option, I wouldn't work. I would raise my five-year-old and my two-year-old.

Maybe finding a job on the road if I got time but What kind of work >> to get y'all's opinion. What kind of work is it? Nursing?

Yeah, well, kind of it's a echocardiography so it's ultrasounds of the heart but very similar to like a travel nurse. Okay. So, give me a better

picture of that. So, is that you just you live somewhere for six months and then you move on? What does that look like? Three-month contracts.

Um, roughly about 2,500 a week. And then they range depending but average would be about 2,500 a week. And how old are the kids? Three and five.

>> Uh, five-year-old and a yeah, five and two but yeah. >> Five and two. Okay.

Interesting. What do you do?

Um, I work for the state.

Doing what? Uh, fisheries biology.

Mhm. What do you make?

Uh, I make 69,000. What does she make

now? She's part-time. Um, she stays at home with the kids two times so it's it ranges but um, I think about 30,000 a year.

Okay. Okay, so she could work full-time and make 70.

She could. And um,

>> [snorts] >> but your all's concern is that one parent is with the kids, it sounds like.

Yeah, we like that and and and I'm okay staying in debt a little longer. I know it's not the Ramsey way but I'm okay with it so she can spend some time with the kids. It's really important to her.

I if you were leaning towards one, what would you lean towards? Because

when I look they want the adventure and they would say, "Oh, this is a great opportunity. Let's go out go travel. The kids will learn on the road." You know, that kind of thing. Whereas other families like the feeling of stability and and being in one place.

So, do you see what I'm saying? Where do you fall on that line?

Yeah, for me, option two and I think that's both of us. But, what our concern is y'all just went through the housing market. I mean, we're in a really good spot. We bought in 2019 so we have a low interest rate. We're just not a huge fan of our area. We both love our jobs.

Um, we just want a different area.

>> So, then then you've whittled this down to it all being about interest rate.

And that shows me interest rates and house price. Yeah. House prices are going to escalate during the three or four years he does this. That's true but they will also have paid off debt so you'll be saving more.

So, I think you can pace with that.

Yes. And putting into retirement cuz right now, Baby Step number two, we're not into retirement so this would essentially jump us into three. Yeah.

I I feel like what you're leaning towards is option two and I don't have a problem with that as long as you guys don't have a problem with it.

Okay. And then I I'd set I'd set clear limits. How long do we think we want to do this? And then play out the whole thing until the end.

What is What is the whole thing look like? We do this for three years. At the end of it, we've had X amount of dollars saved and then we can go and we think we can buy this amount of house in cash. Play the whole plan out and then ask yourself what happens if this goes well, what happens if this goes bad and really try to fill in all those variables as best as possible on paper, not just mentally, not talking about it over dinner but write it down so you can see, do we like this?

There's nothing holding you to this.

Okay, three years, we're going to do five cities. Okay, that's the plan. But after three cities you go, this isn't fun. Yeah, we can stop. We can stop.

Yeah, you don't have to play all the way out. It's not a long-term play.

I would not call it a decade. No. Yeah, a decade of this feels >> I I I think I I I would put a limit on Personally, I'd put a limit on it from economic standpoint of 5 years. Um, there's only so much adventure you can stand, too. So, um, but but, you know, I

personally wouldn't do that. But uh um I mean, I wouldn't do anything longer than 5 years. I think it's going to You're going to end up in a other kinds of issues. >> Mhm. Cuz you got a At that point you got a 10-year-old and an 8-year-old, too.

So, um But the point of playing that out is to say, what What is it that you're trying to accomplish >> Exactly. with this money and with this lifestyle? >> What's end game and is it worth it?

>> Mhm. And is the is the the process we're going through going to get be worth Is the Is the juice going to be worth the squeeze? >> go. Uh Ramon is in San Diego. Hi Ramon, how are you?

Hey, hello, Dave. Thank you for having me. >> Sure, how can we help?

I mean, I don't really know where to start, so I'm just going to put it this way. I'm like $73,000 in debt. Mhm. >> And I don't really know where to start.

Okay. I mean, I got myself in this position. I'm done beating myself down to it and I mean, here we are now. What kind of debt is it?

Uh I mean, it's a combination of a lot of things. It's credit cards, like personal loans, student loans. >> Give us a breakdown. How much on credit cards?

Okay, on credit cards it's about $33,000.

>> Okay, how much on the car?

On the car I owe $16,000.

>> Okay. Okay. What else? Personal loan?

Okay, personal loan is $6,000 and

student debt is about $12,000. Okay. The

The car, um what's it worth if you sold it? Just curious.

Uh last time I checked, uh it was like $24,000. What do you make?

I'm currently making $3,000 a month.

Okay, so I just want to clarify the car.

You said you owe $16,000 and I said if you sold it, you said you'd get $24,000.

Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, last time I checked like uh like a couple months ago. >> Okay, well, that's good for you.

Yeah. Okay, so what if What if step one was we sold this car to get out of the note? Are you on a to get out of the note and then you bought something in cash to free up some money. What about that?

Yeah, yeah, that's something I already discussed with my wife too and and we're kind of on board to do that. >> What's your wife make?

Uh my wife stay home.

And you make $3,000 a month in San Diego. Ooh wee. >> Yes. >> That don't work.

What's keeping you in San Diego?

>> Okay, so just a little background in the in the way the situation ended up like this. So, I lost my full-time job like 6 months ago. I ended up being unemployed for like 4 or 5 months and I finally landed this part-time job from Costco pushing carts. Got it.

>> In the meantime. And now I have a job,

professional job again, thank God, lined up in Houston, Texas. It's going to start next month. >> Oh, that's a big part of this.

>> Oh, that kind of matters in the discussion. So, how much are you going to make there? >> Yeah. So, the first few months it's going to be like $57,000 a year plus a 500 stipend for rent

Okay. A month.

And after that, I think it's going to get They're going to bump me up to like $62,000.

Good. >> Base salary plus commissions. It's a sales position. >> Awesome. >> Excellent. So, the The biggest thing to worry about now is saving up for this move cuz this move is coming. It's going to be expensive. I still think you need to get rid of this car because it's going to free up extra money. Are they giving you a moving stipend?

>> [snorts] >> Um yeah. Yeah, I believe they're going to send like 1,500 before taxes.

>> 1,500? Okay, that's not a whole lot. So, I want your your homework here is to not make this worse by going into debt on a move. So, you need to save up for the move and you need to do detailed research on what this is going to cost you because a cross-country move is expensive. >> When do you move?

Uh they want me to be there by January 2nd. Ooh wee. Yeah.

>> so yeah, you need to be delivering pizzas and Ubers and whatever else you can going crazy between now and Christmas, throwing boxes for FedEx or UPS, whatever you got to do. I want you working 60 80 hours a week to pay for the move between now and Christmas, okay?

Yeah. No, yeah, I'm actually looking for a second and a third job at the moment.

>> Yeah. I I I wouldn't look for one. I'd go get one today. They're everywhere.

Um it's it's Christmas, dude. I mean, Target's paying 20 20 bucks an hour. Get your butt over there. So, load up on that and then list your debts smallest to largest and we're going to pay [music] for you to go through Financial Peace University, our class, to show you how to do all this stuff because we're running out of time and we didn't get to give you a great answer.

So, you hang [music] on. Chris will pick up and take care of you, brother. You're going to be great. You're going to do good.

I can tell. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be back with you before you know it.

>> [music]

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## 107. Make The Right Decision Today—Your Future Will Thank You | December 26, 2025


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George Camel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So take what you learn today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today.

Normal [music] is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. We're thrilled to have you with us. The phone number to jump in on the conversation today is88255225.

You ready to go, partner? >> I am ecstatic. I see you got your uh really fancy uh denim jacket on today. I

saved the best for you. I appreciate you cleaning up. Let's go to Kathy in Texas.

Kathy, how can we help?

>> Hi. Uh, I'm 68 years old and six months ago I got involved with an online investment group. I eventually borrowed $50,000 from my brother. He invested 110. I retired from my company. I took

out all my 401k and pension. And uh,

last month they ghosted us and froze our accounts and we lost it all. I lost 487,000.

My brother lost the 50 I borrowed and the 110 he invested and my brother would like his money. >> Oh boy. >> And and I have a house that's paid off.

I live in Texas, so I have a homestead on it. Um I have a $30,000 loan from

American Express. So I'm wondering, do I file bankruptcy? Do I tried to get a reverse mortgage, but my house my husband died, so my house is not uh in

is in good enough condition. I'm just lost. >> Okay. Oh, absolutely. Not only you lost, I'm guessing you're just emotionally stunned. >> You know, that's that's an unbelievable.

Yeah. And I'm so sorry. Is this scam still out there?

>> Um I'm It probably is. I filed with, you

know, FBI and all the agencies, but they

didn't have a whole lot of hope for me.

>> Yeah, it's rare that in these situations you get your money back. So, how much debt total do you have right now? Now, you said you have 30k on an American Express card, >> right? That was a loan. The other two are 2,000 >> [clears throat] >> um maybe 3,000 total. So, 33,000.

>> So, 33,000. And I know you retired recently. Um >> Yes. >> What is your what does the future look like as far as work? Because that's we absolutely have to consider that right now. >> Oh, I know. I've been applying, but I'm like I said, I'm 68. I've had my job for 36 years. I did sales, so I can do that.

But I'm, you know, >> How long have you been out of the workforce?

>> Uh, since May, end of May.

>> What about your past company? Have we called them up and told them what's going on?

>> Um, my job once you quit, you you're

gone. I'm easily replaceable.

>> Okay. [sighs] Wow. Well, bankruptcy, you

know, it will clear the American Express debt, but I don't think it's worth >> declaring bankruptcy over this. Yeah, >> cuz you just you lost your retirement money. You're not going to get that back, >> right? >> And the pension as well. So, you took the pension out as a lump sum, used that in the investment course, >> took cashed out every dime of your retirement, and threw it into this course.

>> Correct. All I have is $2,000 a month, social security. Now, >> what is your >> $500?

$2,000. I make 2,000 a month.

>> And then what was the other thing you were about to mention? 500 something.

>> I promised my brother $500 a month.

>> Well, the promises are over. I mean, you don't have money. >> Sorry. Brother is on his own. >> We You both got screwed in this and so you just simply don't have the money to pay him back.

>> Okay. >> I mean, he got you into this if I heard you correctly. >> No, I got him. And >> Okay.

>> It doesn't matter. >> Due diligence. >> It doesn't matter. That was just me kind of being on team Kathy.

So I I misunderstood. But no, you can't take care of brother. Brother's got to take care of himself. You both you both made a poor decision and and now we got to figure out >> you were in what the bank would call a risky borrower.

>> Well, he had he had faith in me and Sure. And he's I've never disappointed him before. So >> I Well, I hope you can pay him back one day, but it's not today. You're not going to be making him payments because you got to put food on the table. >> Can you live off of 2,000 a month?

>> Um my my bills really are $800 a month

um plus food and then my homeowner's

insurance and um uh

>> so all in what does it take to run your house for a month? Include food, include HOA, every single little thing.

>> Yeah, pretty much 2,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, you're just going to hopefully survive. And that's where getting a job is going to come into play.

>> Listen, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to jump in real quick on the job thing because I think coming off of something this emotionally difficult, one of the best things you can do is get to work. Now, I understand that you have been applying, but I think uh you're going to have to take some opportunities that you wouldn't normally think about. Now, I mean, that's maybe Starbucks, >> Walmart, Target.

We need income. and if we can get some benefits out of that. So, I mean, you're you're doing everything you can and your number one goal right now is to tell everybody your story. Now, this is very difficult. I understand what I'm saying.

I I completely understand what I'm asking you to do, which is to share your story. It is a thing that is going to be difficult because you're ashamed, and I understand that, but you aren't the only person who has been duped before. And I

think a 60-year-old lady who's a good person, uh, who has lived her life well,

I this is where we can't do this on our

own.

>> We cannot, Kathy, do this on our own. I

mean, we No advice that George and I will give you um is going to alleviate

that fact.

This is the time to go, everybody. I know, here's my story. here's what's going on and and this is what I got to do. And I think that there's nothing wrong with that because you need some kind souls to go, I'm going to help Kathy and I'm going to give Kathy a job.

Uh that's what has to happen right now.

What is your house worth?

>> Uh probably 350 for a flipper. It's on

paper that they >> What do you mean for a flipper? you know, if somebody came in and wanted to flip it and make some quick money.

>> I'm saying if you listed it on the MLS on the market with a real estate agent, what could you get for it?

>> Uh, well, I asked and they said 375 to 425. >> Okay. So, your house is worth about $400,000. I would keep it for now. Try to stay afloat. Try to get a job. And there's a worst case scenario here where five years from now, if you're out of options, you're unable to work for some reason. You could sell the house, downsize, and invest the difference to

try to create a little bit of a nest egg.

>> Well, that was why I was going to do the reverse mortgage route. >> No, >> but that >> I mean, they will just screw you with all the fees. You're going to lose all the equity in your home.

>> Um, you know, it's it's a terrible, horrible financial product. And they prey on desperate people like our friend Kathy to try to get them into these.

Uh Kathy, I'm going to ask a question to George on your behalf very quickly.

>> Um George, I agree with what you said about the house, but I'm sitting here going, if I'm in her shoes at 68, I wonder if it's not a is it a feasible idea to not sell the house now and take

the entire proceeds and get that back in the the retirement accounts to try to grow over the next five years? I I as you said that, I just What do you What are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean that was my my initial thought was could we just liquidate the house, invest every penny of it and live off of the growth. There is risk there because we don't know what the market's going to be.

>> I don't want to live off of it. >> We don't know how long it'll last. So that's why I want to see right now, can we create enough income and then use that play that card later on down the road when necessary instead of just going to that route and then not working at all. That's my fear.

So Kathy, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I wish I had a magic wand and can just get these scammers to give you your money back.

The future you had, the retirement you dreamed of, it's not going to be the same. So, you've got to grieve what was and just create a realistic picture of what comes next.

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Welcome [music] back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm alongside the one, the only George Camel. He is without comparison, folks.

That's just all I'll say. And he is our [music] resident money expert today. Uh, he'll help you figure out what to do with it. I'm going to help you earn more of it.

How about that? So, you got the guy who wants to help you make more money and the guy who tells you what to do with the money. That's quite a combo. Winning team.

And I see you got one of your nicer jackets on today. >> It's a sportsman uh varsity jacket, I think, is what they say. >> Is that what it's called? >> I don't know.

You I was hoping you could tell me.

>> It's missing the leather sleeves and the letterman. Do you even know what it means to letter in a >> I never made the team, Ken. I think that's pretty obvious. >> I know. No one is shocked by that at all. But we still love you, George. And you are our coach today. So, where's the whistle? Let's get you a whistle and and uh and a hat. I think whistles are obtrusive. >> And they might be. Jim is up next in Little Rock, Arkansas. Jim, how can we help today?

>> Hi, how you doing? Yeah, I'm calling because our church is expanding. We're adding on to the building, taking out a loan. Our church collects decent offerings every week and month, but they want some guaranurs to co-sign for the loan.

So, >> how big is the loan? >> Um, the loan is going to be about 3

million.

>> And what kind of >> offerings are >> Yeah, tell me about those church offerings. >> The church offerings are about 15,000 every week. Um, the loan amount would be

like 17,000 a month.

>> But, um, >> so they want you to take personal risk.

>> Yeah. >> For a $3 million loan.

>> A few A few of the members. They're asking a few. >> Are you Are you on the leadership team?

>> Yes, I am. >> Well, how do you feel about this?

>> I'm I'm not at peace about it. That's why I called to be honest with you. We have some people that have done it.

>> Yeah. I wouldn't do it.

>> I wouldn't do it.

>> I'm I'm I guess I'm just kind of shocked that they would ask that. >> I agree. That's a very uncomfortable position to put you in. >> The church should never have to ask individuals to be guarantees on that. If the church can't service that loan, I don't know what they're thinking.

>> So, yeah, the reason they need the guarantor is because the lender doesn't believe the church has the finances to pay the loan.

That should be red flag number one.

>> Yeah. Waving in the wind. And number two, if I'm part of this church board, I'm going to say, what would it take to cash flow this through, you know, a giving through the church?

>> Who's driving this? >> Who's driving this this this expansion idea? Is it is it the pastor?

>> Uh, it's it's combination uh pastors and

leaders. >> Yeah, but I mean, come on. Who's the real cheerleader? You know the answer.

Who is it?

>> The pastor. >> Yeah, that's what I thought.

Yeah, he needs to cool his jets. The answer is no.

I wouldn't touch it with a 10-ft pole.

And by the way, you felt that way before you called us.

>> Yeah. I'm just calling for some confirmation. I just to make sure I could. >> Your gut's right. >> This This is a Listen, I come from the church world. I was raised in the church. My dad was a church planter. Um my dad didn't do what this pastor's doing, but I've seen it. You know, growth is exciting. Hey, we want to do this. who want to grow and and I believe the pastor's heart's in the right place, but he's got building fever and it's an

easy thing to happen. And it's just like anything else. He as a pastor is not immune from the idea of being tempted, you know, to to buy a bigger house, George, or to buy some land and build the dream home well before you're ready to do so. He's not immune from that. And that's what this is. He shouldn't be putting pressure as a leader on people

in the church to personally guarantee what the church needs to handle on their own. So that's uh for that reason, George, we're out. We're out. So there you go. Let's go to Morgan in Cleveland, Ohio. Morgan, how can we help?

>> Hey, how's it going, guys? >> Good. How are you? >> Um I'm great. Thank you so much for taking my call. Um, I recently experienced a pretty big increase in my income. I am a student and I've moved

from an hourly wage to kind of a higher salary and I'm a bit overwhelmed about what to do with it and how to manage it responsibly. I was wondering if you have any advice for a student on did I buy a house or invest or I have no idea what to do. >> Wow, congrats. So, what were you making and what do you make now?

Um, so I was making the most I've ever made is about $20 an hour and my new

salary is $210,000 a year. >> Whoa. So you 5xed your income.

>> You went from like 40 grand to 210. Tell us really quickly in 20 seconds what happened.

Um, I'm a law student and I just got really um I got decent grades and I

landed a job.

>> Nice. Good for you. So, you've you've been you've already taken the firm job.

You got the big job.

>> Uh, so this will be for next summer. So, I'd be a summer associate, but after that, um, hopefully the plan is that they'd hire me back. I've pretty consistently they hired those individuals back and they train you over the summer.

>> Okay. Well, I will receive this pro-rated um yeah, next summer.

>> Okay. So, it's a pro-rated. You're not It's not like you've signed on and you're now going to be making 210,000 over the next 12 months.

>> Um I will after I graduate. So, that'll be in a year. >> Okay. Gotcha. So, it's locked in. Okay.

Gotcha. >> But you know this is coming that potentially a year from now you'll 5x your income and you're going, "What do I do?" Wow.

>> Yes. >> Do you have any debt from law school?

>> No. I was very fortunate to have a good scholarship. >> Wow. Good. >> Well, you worked your butt off for it. It wasn't luck.

>> I appreciate that. >> That's awesome. So, no debt at all.

>> No debt at all. >> No car loan. No credit card.

>> How much fun are you going to have with this? >> Catapulted your future. Do you have anything in savings right now?

>> Um, I have about a hundred,000 in

savings. >> Who are you? Is this a prank call, Morgan? Be honest. Morgan, are you a real person?

>> I am. Actually, I wanted to thank you guys because my parents actually I'm sure they would be shocked that I'm calling the show right now, but they listened to Dave Ramsey growing up and >> the whole show they like went to his event. They wanted to thank him. Didn't get the opportunity. So, I for them. But

>> the best thank you is is following the plan and living it out and changing your family tree. And your parents have done that. You're doing that.

>> 100 grand saved. No debt.

>> They paid off their house. So they want to thank you as well from them.

>> Look at that >> incredible family. Okay. So if I'm in your shoes, my next goal would likely be

to purchase a home once I have that stable big income. So what does your living situation look like right now?

>> Right now I'm in an apartment. I pay about $1,000 a month. Um I'm right next

to my law school, blockable, and um

yeah, that's about it. Is the firm in the same area where you're going to school now?

>> It's not. I will have to move. Um I have

a place rented out for the summer already that I've paid for for next summer, but um that's about a th000 as well. Thousand a month. >> Uh George, what I was going to suggest here, and I'll stay out of the way here, let you keep going, but I I wonder if she doesn't rent for at least 6 months, maybe 12 months once she lands in this new metropolitan area or wherever she's going. Even if you want to rent for 2 years and continue stacking up cash >> depending on how big a home she's going to get.

>> Yeah.

going to just sock away into savings and after two years, I'm going to have a few extra hundred grand.

>> Well, I think that's what I'm wondering is I don't I mean, I know nothing about houses. I've never looked to buy a house. I don't know if that's a terrible idea or I should be investing and just keep living kind of frugally or >> the good news is you can do both. So in in the baby steps you would be at baby steps for uh you call it 3b where you're saving up for the home down payment.

And many people choose to invest that 15% into retirement from their income. And so you can do that now uh depending on what you know retirement options you have through your employer. You could always open a Roth IRA and fully fund that through your income. And then as you make more, that 15% chunk gets larger.

You know, 15% of 200 grand is way more than 40. >> And so as you do that, you're going to continue to build wealth. Any money beyond that, let's stack away in a high yield savings account and maybe get a house in the next two years.

>> Yeah, that's overwhelming thought, but

>> and here's the deal. You don't have to do this alone. If you jump on to ramiesolutions.com, click on trusted services, and you can get connected with a real estate agent that is Ramsey trusted that will help you walk through this home ownership journey. And uh I think that's the next step for a young gal who's crushing it. And beyond that, enjoy some of it. Give some of it.

>> Yeah. And I I just want to say, Morgan, I know you you're doing such a great job out on your own, but your mom and dad have taught you right. They've done it the right way. Call mom and dad. You're not alone on this deal. Um they're going to walk you through them. They're they're solid people and so you got the best bench that you could possibly uh want helping coach you as you enter into life. Thanks for the call, Morgan. You're a superstar. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show.

Thrilled to have you with us, America.88255225

is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside Karen is up

next in San Antonio, Texas. Karen, how can we help today?

>> Hi you guys. Sure appreciate you um taking my call today. You bet.

>> Um I um guess to start that I'm I'm a widow. I um 66. I have a small business that's kind of struggling. um recently had heart surgery, etc., etc., no kids, no family, two dogs. [laughter] >> Wow. >> Two [clears throat] dogs, little on social security and some from my um business and credit cards.

>> Um I managed to get into a situation. I

borrowed money from a personal loan um

an online personal loan company um

nationally advertised, all that kind of good stuff. Went through the whole process because I wanted to pay off some um some debt. you know, to get rid of my credit cards and to invest in a um a

vehicle for my mobile um salon

and um managed to find out that the interest rate is somewhere around 48%.

>> Oh my goodness. >> And it's and it's frontloaded. I mean I

mean I heard the 48% but I thought that's no no big deal because I'm going to pay this off like very quickly. And so I didn't pay attention [clears throat] enough to hear that it's frontloaded. So

the amount of money that I borrowed, >> most of your payments are going to interest essentially, >> not touching the principal. >> Absolutely. >> How much was the loan for? >> It's half and half is is what it is. I I ran a thing this morning. Um half and half is going to principal. >> How much was the loan >> for $29,000?

And how soon were you planning to pay that off when you just stared 48% and went, "Ah, no big deal." How quickly were you planning to pay that off? Those were your words. >> Within a year. Within a year.

>> So, you were okay with a 48% for a year?

I've never heard anybody say that before. >> That's an extra 15 grand in interest alone.

>> Yeah. Well, like I said, I, you know, I'm kind of ridiculously stupid at this particular point. Um, >> yeah. No, I mean I'm not here to bash you. I'm trying to understand the desperation that led you to this.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm Is this for your business?

>> Yes. >> What's your business? >> It was >> uh it's um dog grooming. Why did you

need Why did you need $29,000 for a dog

grooming business that's struggling

>> to um go into the next phase and um

excuse me, didn't expect that. Um

[clears throat] it's going into a mobile situation, a mobile grooming situation um with a very specified uh market um that nobody's really tapping into at this point. And what is the market, you know? >> Well, I don't really want to say it out loud on the competition. Okay. You don't want to give away your Shark Tank idea here. Okay. >> Well, I hire mobile groomers, so I'm just curious cuz I pay these people and I understand how the business works. >> And I've used a mobile groomer as well.

So, but >> right, >> but this was a >> this is this is a the concept was a little bit different. It's a larger grooming situation where you have two people inside and then you um we're

situated in a in an area a contracted

area that we would be there for three or four days and we would >> you kind of park.

>> So the only reason we're digging is >> like a popup. >> Got it. But the only reason we're digging on this is we're trying to figure out how we help you get out of it. So the question is, was the 29,0004

like a van or some type of vehicle or was it just the equipment or was it just other stuff? >> It was part >> You're breaking up on us, Karen. >> And then part I'm sorry. It was part for the vehicle and then um the other part for the conversion of the vehicle to the

unit that I was I was trying to achieve.

>> How much could you sell this thing for to someone else who does mobile grooming?

I believe in an easy 40 40 45,000.

>> And what's your total debt that you owe?

Everything but the mortgage >> on the the vehicle.

>> Just everything. All your debt. >> Cuz you said you had other debt and you took out this debt to try to pay off some other debt. So what is your total debt load right now?

>> Okay. Total debt load um with the thing

that I took out before was is about 31,000. Then I have um eight u eight

grand on MX and about 8,000 on City Bank. And that's that's it as far as what I Oh, and about and four 400 40

4,000 on the RV that I bought to live in. >> So you're living in an RV right now.

>> Yes, that's correct. I had a plan originally. >> We all have a plan until life punches us in the face. So, how are you how how if

we if we were to sell this? Do can you

sustain yourself on uh just regular pet

grooming or do you have to do >> I have a well it's it's part of you know

to continue on with the mobile business just because of the culture of employees

and such since co um I have a standalone

I mean I have a stick and mortar business also but I was going to keep it in a in a small set still maintain

Is the brickandmortar business profitable >> right now? No.

>> So, here's what it sounds like. You're you're jumping from unprofitable to unprofitable to unprofitable, hoping to strike gold at some point. And instead, you just keep digging a hole by maxing out these cards and jumping to another piece of debt to try to cover the other debt. And so, we're trying to stop you from playing the shell game and number one, create a profitable business, and two, get out of debt.

And that might mean a clean slate where you get rid of this mobile grooming truck, you sell it, sell the RV, you rent for a while, get rid of all your debt, create a foundation, and then start slow and with cash. >> Yeah. I just I And to that end, Karen, we're trying to solve for you here.

could you make similar money just grooming for somebody else? Just somebody else who's got a business and they're looking for a solid person like you. You're not going to flake on them.

You've got the skill set. Can you make the same amount of money working for somebody else as a groomer?

>> Um, if I wanted, if I was able to work full-time, um, and work as hard as I

used to, yes. Um, I, like I mentioned

before, I'm 66 and I had

>> What are you making from this? >> You're in a state.

>> What What is your yearly income from all of this after all of your expenses?

Oh, barely anything because everything I have got >> That's what I'm saying. You could go work a retail job and not break your back doing this and get out of this completely. >> And what about 20 hours? Like just work part-time. They need groomers. You're a

dream for somebody trying to find one.

>> I [laughter] know. But what but Karen, listen. We want you to sell all this stuff and and you got social security coming in. Uh work 20, 30 hours. do whatever you can, but selling the RV and

selling this van gets a a whole lot.

>> I don't have the van yet. That's why I borrowed the money to >> Where's the money right now?

>> Well, I was afraid to spend it once I figured out what how much it was going to cost me. So, I kept it and just let it pay itself. >> Wait, so a bank?

>> Can you just go ahead and pay off the loan then?

>> Um, I could, but it would take everything pretty much everything. It better than paying 15 grand in interest that you don't have. >> Yes, Karen. This is get out of jail here. This is get out of jail.

>> I thought the damage was done and you already bought the van and did the renovations, but if you have the money sitting there, >> no. No, it's not even there yet. >> Hit the rewind button. >> The bank gave you 31,000 48% interest.

>> That's it. Rewind this whole deal.

>> 31 grand. >> Do I'm sorry for the sound effects.

>> No, it's great actually. I like that. >> Really, Karen? Hit the rewind button and get out of this deal. Go work for a local groomer who is going to be thrilled to have a 66-y old experienced

nonflaky Gen Z groomer and they're going to pay

you well and you get some breathing room. Am I right, George? >> Absolutely. And what's the RV worth? You owe 4,000 on it. What could you sell it for? >> No, I owe 40,000 on it. Goodness. And what I could what I could sell it for is

>> about between 35 and 40. It's it's a

it's a 24.

>> Where the hell am I going to live?

>> Rent somewhere >> with in a over some old lady's garage

because she needs some companionship and she wants somebody who can I'm telling you where there's a will, there's a way.

>> What's your payment on the RV?

>> Um 441.

>> Okay. Take your 441 that you'll save by getting rid of that plus your social security >> plus your part-time hours and you can afford rent somewhere. You might need it, you know, to >> There's some gold. I guarantee you there's some golden girls in your community that love would have loved to have a roommate.

I mean, you got to look. You got to find it. You got to happen to life, Karen. And we've been talking to a lady who life has been happening to her.

You got to flip the script here. We told you exactly what to do. This is doable, but you got to do it. Change your life.

>> [music]

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[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me this hour. The phone number is 888255225.

You got a question about your money?

Come on. You got a question about not making enough money. You want to make more. I'm here to help on that. George is going to coach you up on your budget, how to keep it. So, uh, let's get to it.

Is it Joan? I think we're going to go with Joan or Joanne. What do you think?

What do you think? >> I'm going to go Joanne. >> You're gonna go Joanne. I'll go with Joanne. Let's see. Toronto, Ontario. Is

it Joan or Joanne?

>> It's Joanne. >> Joanne. All right. Way to go, George.

Way to help me out. I win a prize. Thank you. How can we help?

>> Okay. So we have a 15-year-old son who

um we have been Dave Dave Ramsey

followers for years. So he has done the 60 3010 principle.

Now he is working um 50 60 hours a week

and we are starting to see an unhealthy

money habit where everything is about money and saving.

>> Be more specific. >> Like how do >> what's what's what's showing up in his in his actions in his comments that's got you concerned about a 15year-old working 50 to 60 hours a week. I'm I'm having a hard time being concerned yet, but I want to hear more. >> Okay. Well, and maybe this is where we don't need to be concerned. Um, but he

is an avid soccer fan.

>> Okay. >> And he would rather work than go to his

soccer game.

>> You mean mean playing in his in his Correct. Okay. >> Correct. >> And what's his job? What kind of work is he doing? >> Um, he's now into landscaping. Mhm. And

what's he making per hour?

>> Uh $19 an hour.

>> Uhhuh. And what kind of goals does this kid have with this money? Have you heard him talk about some of his goals?

>> Oh, yes. >> What's he got? >> He wants to buy a house.

>> Uhhuh. And why does he want to buy a house? >> He wants to buy a house when he's 20.

>> And yes, in Canada, in our area, you don't get much of a house for 400,000.

>> Right. And what is he uh what is he saying about his future besides buying a house? Is he saying anything about a professional future, things that he may want to do one day?

>> Um, he like he's leaning towards running

his own landscaping company.

>> Okay, there's your answer. >> But when it comes to college, it is off the table. He doesn't even want to think about it because he can make money instead. >> Fantastic. >> Well, he's figured he's making400 a month at 15 years old. What does he need college for? >> I couldn't be happier. Joanne, you have nothing to be concerned about at all.

You have a 15-year-old who has discovered the value of working his butt

off and stacking cash and he's thinking

five years ahead on a house. He's thinking probably seven to 10 years ahead on owning his own landscaping company. And he's going, I'm never going to play in the in the MLS and I'm probably not going to make the Canadian World Cup team. So maybe I'll just skip my soccer game and take care of my future. I wouldn't be concerned if I were you, Joanne. I'd be throwing a party.

>> Okay, that's good.

>> George, am I am I wrong? >> Here's my take. Now, there's I'm The only concern is that he has skipped childhood and went straight into adulthood. We want him to grow into an adult who is excited about work. I like that. >> Skip childhood. That's a dramatic.

>> Well, I just don't want him to look back one day and go, "What?" Like, I just what what did I do this for? I just worked my whole life. My concern, Ken, and here's where I've seen this play out. There's not a why behind it.

>> He's got a why. Well, he wants to he wants a house. >> No, he wants to run his own landscaping company one day. >> Yes, >> he likes landscaping work.

>> Buy a house at 20. >> Who cares about that? That's just a 15-year-old. That'll work itself out.

She's wondering, is he working too much?

Is he too concerned about money? And I don't think he is. Is he Does he have to be in school?

>> We homeschool.

>> Okay. >> And he's doing his high schooling instead of four years, he's doing it in three. >> And he's getting it all done. He's doing his work. He's studying. >> Oh, absolutely. Okay, great. This kid can work and make money.

>> Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people get it. >> Well, he hates the homeschooling, but he's so bound and bent. He can make money, >> but he's very disciplined >> instead of sitting behind a desk.

>> Yes. But that's what schooling does to a lot of entrepreneurs. In fact, I could tell this story over and over and over and over and over against all about all the great entrepreneurs. They hate being on a behind a desk. They hate the process. They're about doing. And uh my

guess is he really enjoys the outdoors.

Is this something he's always been? Bit of an outdoorsy handy kind of guy.

>> Oh, absolutely. 100%.

>> Again, this is he's Listen, I wrote a book called Find the Work You're Wired to Do, George. This kid is wired.

>> He figured it out very early.

>> Yes. I'm telling you, I'M SO EXCITED. I

COULD BARELY STAND IT. This is, by the way, this is rare.

>> Very. But but to say this kid's not had any fun, he's had a fun childhood. Yes.

Yeah. Well, and trauma. Lots of trauma.

But >> Okay. Tell us about that. Whatever you're comfortable with. We don't need to know the details, but what kind of trauma? >> Um, he lost his brother when he was

seven. >> Mhm. >> So, that's really tough on him.

>> Well, that'll make you grow up quick.

That's exactly what I was. So, sorry.

Yeah. >> Yeah. And a year later, his dad and me

split. >> Okay. So would you say it's possible that this

is a big distraction for him and it also

is a potential win for him? He sees a

big life win. He sees something that he can control. He couldn't control losing his brother. He couldn't control you all divorcing, but he can control how much money he makes.

>> I think so. and potentially it makes him

focused on something other than his pain. >> That's exactly what I'm getting at. That's why I said it's a distraction and something that he can control. >> It can be both. >> I listen, I think getting him therapy on a consistent basis and encouraging him to do that is okay. I understand your concern. I was having some fun. I I am in no way minimizing the trauma that

he's had, but this is this is actually he's not >> he's not some weird situation. He's rare, >> okay? >> But he's not weird.

>> Okay, >> George. Well, I keep thinking about my my friend Graeme Stefen, who's a big financial YouTuber. He had a very similar experience to your son, Joanne, where he went he was in school going, "Wait, I can go make money doing this aquarium photography stuff? Why am I sitting here in school making zero dollars? So, there's a bent to him that he's going to be very wealthminded and that's okay. I'm just in the boat of I think a little bit of balance is good >> as long as he has some hobbies.

>> I just I don't know that I I don't want to be working 60 hours a week, >> let alone a 15-year-old. So, that was my only thing was I love where he's headed.

His mindset's right, his discipline is there. I just want him doing it for the right reasons and have some real depth to it instead of just going, I got to build wealth. I got to have a million by 21 or else or else or else. And as I dig into it with people, there's no why behind it.

I just want them to have that deeper why. >> And I appreciate that. But I Joanne, I would I would just be aware. I think George makes a very good point there.

I just keep your eye on it.

positive life over him that he's working so hard that he's putting money away.

And just remind him, hey, have a little bit of fun with some of that money, you know, force him to give some, too. Yeah.

Because you said you're doing the 603010. I assume that's saving, spending, giving.

>> Yeah. But he, as long as we've done

that, which is all he ever actually remembers, he's never spent 30%.

>> I think we get him to >> spent way less >> to enjoy some of it more. Cuz what I'm the only concern is that he has a flat tire where he goes, I'm great at saving and investing. I have a harder time giving and having that open hand. I have a harder time enjoying the fruits of my labor. So, I think we can work on those things with him, but I don't think this is a, you know, a crisis.

>> No. >> No. >> Okay. just make make sure he doesn't get

too unhealthy. Uh and and and and that's

the only issue. And the unhealthy would be that he's just working working, not enjoying, not giving. Um so so be that

positive focus. Hey, I think you should go do this or I think you should have some friends over and do you know community I think is huge at 15.

>> Uh here's the interesting thing. It may be very hard to find other 15-year-olds who get him. >> He'll be hiring his buddies to work for his business at this point, >> right? you know, so they come over to play poker or something, he goes, "Hey, let's get outside and knock some boxwoods out here.

Let's plant these suckers." You know, but uh [laughter] I think you got a great young man who's been through a lot. And I think he's he's been forced to >> probably mature a little bit too early on certain things.

mom, and love him. Don't be concerned because he'll pick up on that. And I just don't think you need to be concerned right now. on the spectrum of 60 hours a week doing video games or working. I'd rather him be toward the work side. So, >> it's better. I love that. Good stuff.

All right. Good hour, George Camel. Good stuff. Praying for your voice. We'll get you medicated. More honey during the break. Thanks to Kelly Daniel keeping us on the air and the fearless [music] crew. This is the Ramsay Show.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me, too. They don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's gonna eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

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Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show coming to you from the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dan joins us next in Mesa, Arizona. Dan, how can we help you today?

>> Yes, sir. Thank you for uh taking the call. I've been suffering in poverty for uh all my life pretty much and uh I have a plan uh and uh there's some details around that but that's my question.

>> Okay, tell us more. >> How do I get out of this poverty? What do am I on the right track and what can I do? >> Well, okay, let's start with where you are. Uh what is your income?

>> Right now I have income of about 1,400 with social security disability and I have a part-time labor job for about a

100red a week. My income last year on taxes was about just under 21K, which is

impossible to live on, of course. >> Yeah. Now, I'm I'm curious about the the

um the um disability because you're working

part-time. What is the part-time job?

>> The part-time job is working at the grocery store as a courtesy clerk, bagging groceries, lifting water, pushing old lady carts out for them, trying I try to make people feel good and have a blessing. I'm the last face they see before they walk up. >> Dan, you're a Dan, you're a good man.

What but what is your what is your disability and how does it limit you from working more?

>> Well, I'm

it's it's psychiatric. I've had I've had deep trauma in childhood >> and I've been in recovery from alcoholism for 28 years coming up December 4th. But there's a lot of these uh underlying issues and problems which have really prevented me from >> thinking clearly about money uh making clear good choices and um you know making bad decisions like that. So the the disabilities I can't really function that good in a workplace and a lot of depression and personality problems but

>> Well, how are you doing at the grocery store? >> Well, I do excellent at the grocery store. >> And why do you think that is?

because I started doing a special therapy for trauma called EMDR in March.

>> Yeah. >> And it took me from staring at the wall for a year and a half to uh working feeling good and taking a uh I took a training and got a certificate in Google data analytics uh uh from March until now. >> Way to go. >> I'm looking to uplevel. I'm trying to uplevel, but the thing is I got to get off social security for the first time since 2000, which is somewhat terrifying. >> I think that's the root of this.

>> I do too. And Dan, I want to tell you,

keep at it. And I would ask your therapist, get a professional opinion on

whether or not you, she or he feels like you can go to full-time work. Let's take some baby steps to this. And let's move

into if we can full-time at the grocery store because you're psychologically safe there right now. Sounds like.

>> Well, the problem I can't do full-time at the grocery store, which is a complex thing about the way they do their positions. I tried that in March which didn't turn out. So that's what made me turn back towards tech because I went to graduate school for research methods in the 90s, right? And I've got all the statistical background and now we've got all this new technology, AI coming, data analytics is hot.

I'm all for you going full blast on the technology side, but what I was suggesting is that might take a little bit of time >> to get that job and you're already in recovery um and you're doing some work and so I think getting some wins here is super important. You would agree with that, correct? Not just financial wins, but psychological, mental, and emotional wins. So here's where I'm going, Dan.

I would have never guessed, nor would anybody in this vast audience would have ever guessed the trauma. We still don't know. It's none of our business. But we wouldn't have guessed any of that based on how you described how you treat people and what you do at the grocery store.

So, I'm going to tell you something, man. I just I wish I could reach through the phone and give you a hug and say that I think you're stronger than you think you are.

heard thousands upon thousands of calls,

I I heard a man who is full of joy. And

not only full of joy, but like gives joy. I got goosebumps when you described

that you want to be the last face they see as they go to their car. I mean, there's a guy who's been through so much pain and has made it through just enough

to be able to give joy when you've had

very little joy.

So, there's my locker room speech, Dan.

But here's where I'm going.

>> If the grocery store won't move you to full-time, what about Target? What about Walmart? What about any other big box stores who need somebody like you who's going to show up? Broken? Yes. Joyful?

Yes. And you're going to give yourself away. I'd like to see you take that step

and let's see if we can get full-time pay and some benefits at one of those bigger stores >> and share some of your story. Don't share all the darkness. Don't share, but just go, "Hey, I've been through a lot.

I'm 28 years sober. I hear that from somebody and I go, "Rock on, baby.

I I I have mad respect for you, Dan."

So, I want you to carry that and let's see if we can get to one of those roles, get more income in, and get off of Social Security while we are making the

inroads and connecting. And I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle, is my gift to help you make connections to get into technology. Now, that's my that's my little speech, but I

meant every word of it. And I think >> I appreciate you. That was amazing. That really helps me a lot in my heart.

>> Well, good. Because I think your head and your heart need to get on the same page. >> Yes, sir. >> You've lost trust in Dan, and we're telling you he's worth trusting in again. It's worth betting on yourself.

>> I stand with Dan. I'd call every store

in Mesa and I'd vouch for you

because there's no there's nobody among us today that doesn't have some brokenness.

So, I think you're going to have to step up a ladder on this. >> Yeah. The way out of this is income. And the good news is if you make so much working that you lose SSDI, good.

>> That's great. >> That's exactly what you wanted, isn't it? Cuz that's the only path out of this is making enough that you can lose it and not miss it. and cover your bills.

>> George, take two minutes and walk him through step by step. Let's assume he's gotten that money now. Walk him through setting up a budget and trusting himself that he doesn't need social security.

>> Yeah. Right now you're going, "Well, budget what money?" You know, you don't have enough coming in. But once you have three $4,000 coming in and your expenses stay where they are at, I'm assuming 2,000 bucks a month. How how much are you living off of right now?

>> 1,800. >> 1,800. So, can you imagine having an extra,000 or 2,000 bucks left over after your bills are covered? What kind of life that could provide for you?

Your ability to save, to invest, to give, cuz I can tell you're a generous guy who has a heart for that. It's going to change everything. So, you list out your income, you list out your expenses, and the good news, there's going to be money left over when you believe in yourself and go, I'm going to do the kind of work that I was made to do.

You're passionate about serving people.

And that could be through analytics.

That could be at Target. It doesn't matter. The key is you're worth more than a hundred bucks a week. Can we agree on that? >> Yes, sir. >> Dan, I'm gonna tell you those tears are

not a sign of weakness, man.

>> Well, these jobs, you know, they start at 100K. These jobs.

>> Yeah. >> I've been on disability since 2000. If I got a $6,000 take-home check, I'd be on

my knees. I'd be walking around.

>> So, let me tell you what you're going to do. You're going to get yourself a ticket and you're going to come to Nashville and you're going to wait to meet George and I in the lobby. We're going to come out [music] and we're going to give you a big bear hug and we're going to have the whole lobby just cheer. Dan. Dan. Dan. Dan. Let me tell

you something. The Dan we're talking to today who's here today and made the call today has got enough strength to be the Dan that you want to be. You better believe that, my man. Hang on the line.

We're going to get you the proximity principle. That is your homework assignment to get that $100,000 a year

job.

The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed.

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>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside. The phone number is 888255225.

Allison is up in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Allison, how can we help?

>> Hi, good afternoon guys. Thanks for taking my call. Um, I just want to give a little background of what I'm asking about. Um, I'm giving my boyfriend just under two years and we have definitely talked about the future together. Um, you know, and the next step would be living together. Uh, we feel rent is just a waste of money. We'd like to buy a house. Um, neither of us are in the financial state to buy a house. Um, his parents have graciously offered to

basically have us buy their house from them um for 350,000 which is, you know,

pennies in this market. uh with the agreement of if we were to ever sell that we would have to split the difference with them. >> Whose parents? >> Um my boyfriend's parents.

>> This is an awful idea.

>> That's why I'm calling. Um >> did you feel like it was an awful idea when you called or did you think it was a great idea and you're just being nice to my really der response?

>> Um I was kind of 5050. Um, you know, I

came from a divorced house and my parents argued about money every single day. Uh, my boyfriend's parents are still together. They lived in middle class, so did we. Um, I also have like

student debt. My boyfriend doesn't have any. So, I'm just trying to,

I guess, think of the future. Um, I'm also thinking, am I going to sign off on a mortgage without an engagement? So, I know that's playing into it.

>> Yeah, those are all legit questions.

It's I mean George, >> that's your gut telling you red flag, red flag, red flag. Don't do this. It's not the opportunity you think it is. And also you splitting the difference with them. What happens if you stay in this for 10 or 20 years and this house becomes worth a million bucks and you just gave away 300 grand,

>> right? >> Do you see how convoluted it is? Can I give you an alternate vision? Can I do that, Alison? >> Yeah, I'm I'm all ears. I'm willing.

Yeah. >> Here's the alternate vision.

[clears throat] you and your boyfriend uh don't live

together until you get married. And when you get married, you join finances and

maybe you attack a lot of that debt before you ever put a ring on it. And you get debtree and you guys rent for

two years or whatever it's going to take, three years to get a good down payment. George will walk you through that formula of what we recommend. But we just take our time and we're not thinking things like, "Oh, what a waste of time. Us actually being married and not owning a home and and just have this alternate vision for, hey, we can take our time and and move into this and not

be saddled with, you know, a really weird uh clunky arrangement." And

George, explain uh our formula on all of this. What you're looking for is 25% of your take-home pay going toward the mortgage. And that's with two married people. And there's a lot of issues with uh doing this before you're married.

There's a lot of issues doing this with his parents involved and them having a financial gain in this. It just gets real messy. What happens when you guys or if you guys break up and now not only are you, hey, I'm on the mortgage, he stopped paying, but now the parents are involved with the sale of the house >> and they don't like me because I don't want their boy.

>> And I hope that doesn't happen. I hope you guys stay together forever. But the next logical step is not let's live together and buy a house even though we're broke. The next logical step is how do we get out of debt? How can we take steps toward marriage and then once we're in a good financial position, we buy a house. But right now what's clouding your judgment is this quote deal that you're getting on this house.

>> Um it's not that. I mean I'm going to be 32 soon and he's going to be 36 in a

month. So we're kind of thinking, you know, we want to get married, we want to start a family, start a life together.

um the market right now is >> but you don't have to buy this house. >> This has nothing to do with the market. And what let me tell you what happens because I know these stories. You guys move in together to this new house and for four more years you talk about getting married because guess what?

Now you've kind of already played house. So what's the point of getting married? Why the rush? And we're broke so we can't pay for a wedding.

And therefore you're going to build up resentment and that's going to not end well for this relationship. >> And so we're just showing you what happens on the other side. We're not trying to be naysayers. We just get too many calls when people hoped it would work out a certain way and then life happened, >> right?

I I get it. And I, you know, like I said, you know, I I came from divorced parents. I'm personally in debt. Um that I'm working extremely hard to tackle and just get rid of it so him and I don't have to worry about it.

Um and he is the complete opposite. Doesn't have any debt. Didn't have to worry about um parents financial struggles. So, you know, we're coming from two totally different point of views.

And when I bring up to him, um, you know, I don't want to sign a mortgage away if I'm not engaged. Like, I need at least a commitment. >> What does he say to that? >> Um, he he kind of I don't want to say he danced around the idea, but he like he goes, "Well, we're going to do it eventually.

Like, we're going to be together." Like, you know, but I I really want to live together before we do. I'm like, "Yeah, me, too. But if I'm going to sign a mortgage without a ring, like I don't see how that's fair to me." >> Yeah, you're right.

>> That's a Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at first I was like, I don't want to buy a house unless we're married. And then I compromised with I need at least an engagement so I know it's coming.

>> No, don't compromise. >> And >> don't compromise. Make him Listen, you got the leverage, sister.

>> He needs to step up, >> right? >> He needs to step his game up. Is he gonna is he gonna pop the question or not? You should play this back for him on YouTube. I'll tell him I'm the bad guy today. I don't care. Man up, bro.

Put a ring on it. Don't put pressure on her to get into a ill- advised deal.

>> And what's wrong with you? >> And to use this as leverage to hang over your head is just strange and manipulative. >> It's weak. Say, "Well, once we move in, then I'll propose." >> I want to try it out.

I want to I want to live with you for a while before I decide to commit to you. This is what's wrong with men in America today.

problem in the United States. And and women, you know what you ought to do?

Just tell these guys, go pound sand, I'm

not going to live with you. I'm not even going to date you for a long time if you don't show some daggum commitment. Uh, I

I just got to tell you, George, I I get a little irritated with it. And this is the problem. >> And he's in his 30s, Alison, right? You said >> he's 36. He's a manchild.

>> Why doesn't he just buy the house on his own? He's so financially well off.

>> There's a notion.

>> Right. [laughter] >> He doesn't have the money. Right. >> I think I shocked Allison.

>> Yeah. Um I I do you know I I want need

to say like he has been the I know this is probably sound contradictory but um he has been like the most amazing partner I could have ever asked for and like we don't have any issues. Um but

you know when it comes to this like this is where >> but when it comes to this like we obviously have two um standpoints. He's

he's seeing it as let's get the, you know, the living situation on the road and we can finally move forward and be together. And >> he commits first. >> Like renting renting is one thing, but like a a mortgage, I I don't know. I It

doesn't sit right with me. >> I thought we told you that, Allison.

Don't keep waffling on this. And listen, he may be a great boyfriend, but he's a boy. And until he starts acting like a man, I'm gonna tell you something. I wouldn't do any of this with him. I wouldn't do I wouldn't do any I wouldn't move in with him either.

And if that means you're renting, don't look at that as throwing away money on rent. You're buying patience. If you have to get two or three roommates until this is all figured out and you guys are married, I'm okay with that. That's how I I did it before I was married and it worked out great.

And it really helps you avoid so many issues that can come up when you jump into this next step, which is the biggest financial move you will ever make in your life is buying this house. And doing it with someone you're not married to is a recipe for disaster. All right, I'm gonna I got to ask you, what's if this were a dating show, >> okay?

serious relationship like this before we start to say, "Hey, dude, you have commitment issues." >> Here's what I'll say. What's the length of time? >> If it's high school sweethearts, I think you can get more time. If you're in your 30s, I give it two to three years max.

>> Oh, that's way too long.

>> Two to three years max. >> I think a year. I think 12 months. If you're in your 30s and you've been seriously dating someone for a year, if you can't decide by that point whether or not they're a life partner, >> I like getting past the first year. That's when you finally have your first fight. The first year, it's all gumdrops and rainbows. >> No, I think that's about a threemonth period. >> You got to know how they fight. Conflict is everything. You got to know how they fight before you say yes.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Ken's an old man, but I think we're on the same page. >> I believe in commitment. Been married 26 years. I believe in a thing called love and stuff it. >> This is the Ramsay show. [music]

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>> Our question today is from Marco in Arkansas. I am in uh [laughter] >> Sorry, had to do it. >> I like that. Didn't we just meet a family from Tex Arcana, Arkansas in the lobby? >> Oh, there they are right there. Very nice. Uh Marco says, "I'm in baby step

two with $10,000 left to pay off. I'm ready to go allin by working two full-time jobs until I get through baby step three. I'm worried that my kids will be affected by dad not being around as much. Should I go through this to benefit to benefit us in the long run or am I going to cause damage to my children and potentially my spouse even

though she's on board with my plan. I make about a h 100,000 at my current job. What? You're not going to damage

your children. They probably aren't even old enough to know that you're around.

You know, it kind of goes like this. I have So, I'm on the other end of the spectrum of George. George is just getting started and uh I'm I'm you know

like I see empty nesting. It's in your near future. >> It's it's there.

>> It's in another millennia for me. >> Boy oh boy am I excited about it. I love my kids. But I got to tell you it's uh it looks nice. Anyway, point is is that I feel like there's a season where the kids they have no concept of time. You

know what I mean? They're babies so they don't even know what's going on. Then they're toddlers, can't appreciate what's going on. Uh then they're like elementary, they're fine, you know, they're they're fine. And and then you got this like maybe second, third grade, they start being aware mom and dad aren't around, whatever. And then they become middle schoolers and you don't want to be around them. And then they become teenagers and they don't want to be around you. >> So I I just want to give some perspective here as a guy who's in this.

Uh Marco, you're going to be fine. It it is definitely uh if they got to see a little bit less of dad for a season, as long as they understand why to the ability that they can understand, if they can understand it, it doesn't matter. If they can, I think they're really going to appreciate it, they'll get it and everything's going to be okay. >> Yeah.

And based on his language here, he's saying, "I'm ready to go all in." It sounds like this has been stressing him out and he's wanting to get rid of it fast. And here's the thing, a stressed dad, a stressed mom is not a present dad.

>> They feel it. And so I'd rather you not be around them if you're like a live wire because you're so stressed out about your money. Y >> I'd rather you be at work working to clean this mess up. And the other thing is the math ain't math for me.

You got 10 grand to pay off. You make a hundred grand at your current job without the two full-time. Why is it going to take you so long that you think you're going to cause trauma to your kids?

I think you could clean it up with the current income if you just got your expenses down. you can get out of 10 grand of debt and save up another 25 pretty quickly making six figures. So, I

don't know that your plan is necessary.

I would like to see what we can do on the expenses side before we go to up the income. But either way, if this is a short period, like 6 months to go hard at this, your kids will be like, "Wait, what? What happened when I was two?" >> I don't have any recollection.

>> Not not not ringing a bell. Yeah.

>> So, I wouldn't worry about it. But way to go, Marco, for being willing to go all in and having a spouse that's on board. That's a good sign. Sarah is in Boston up next. What's going on, Sarah?

>> Hi, George. Hi, Ken. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um, so sadly last month, my mother-in-law passed away.

>> Um, and she left Thank you. Thank you.

Um, she left two paid off properties to my husband and his two sisters. Um, and the siblings have agreed to sell the primary residence, but my husband wants to keep the other home. Um it's a small cottage on Cape Cod. Um and he plans to use his share of the primary home sale to buy out his sisters.

>> Cool. >> Uh so yeah, but my dilemma is, you know,

emotionally my heart and my husband want to keep the this Cape house. Um, but my

logical side says that we should probably sell both properties to pay off

our mortgage faster and then become

completely debtree.

>> Wanted to get your advice. >> Yeah, thanks for the call. So, faster um

give us an real specific uh idea here.

In other words, if you don't sell these homes and put it all on your mortgage, how when do you anticipate paying off your primary home?

So, we only bought it about two years ago. Um, so we're looking at another 13

years or so, hopefully quicker. But, um, >> that's if you put nothing extra toward the principal, though, >> right? Yes. Exactly. >> What's your income?

>> Um, we make around 310,000

a year. >> What's on the mortgage? What's left?

>> 560. >> Okay. So, uh, I'm trying to find a compromise here, and I think I have one.

What if we keep keep the cottage, but we agree to a plan to then pay off this home more aggressively?

>> I surprised by that plan, but I think that sounds >> Why are you >> Why are you surprised?

>> I thought we were going to be told to sell everything and uh pay off our primary. >> Well, you're not in any kind of dire situation. >> You're not broke. You make $300,000.

>> You guys are killing it. This is really an inheritance that he's just sort of rearranging. >> And here's the here's I I love George and I of course this is all live. I didn't know I didn't know what he was going to say. >> Usually I disagree with Canon. I'm the more aggressive one and I'm actually pretty relaxed now. >> I couldn't agree more with George.

>> I want to be in this cottage in Cape Cod. >> I do too. That was the first thing I was like a cottage in Cape Cod doesn't come along very often was a B. >> Right. You told us that both you and your husband's hearts were in the

cottage. You were like, "We love it." And that was be for me. That was like, "Oh, there's the onetwo punch." And then when I got the rest of the story, I I I again, we always try to give advice >> on what would we do if we were in your shoes.

And that's what I would do. I would keep this cottage and have fun with it, make

memories. It's an asset. Uh, I love the

idea of him buying out his siblings. I think that's great. You're cash flowing that. >> I just don't see any reason to not take this opportunity.

>> What's your mortgage payment every month? >> Um, it's around 4,000.

>> Okay. So, making $310,000 amazing income. Could we throw another four or 5,000 a month at this? Could we just double it?

We we could definitely take a look and get there. >> I think if we looked at the budget and sit down with your husband and go, "Okay, here's the deal. I called the Ramsay Show. Here's what they said.

We get to keep the cottage, but we pay off this house in 6 years." >> Yeah, I think he would be completely on board. He's going to be thrilled. >> I'm going to throw a possibility that again I wouldn't do. So, I want to say that I wouldn't do this and you'll understand, >> but you could do it.

you're not going to be up there vacationing all the time. You could rent that and take that income and put it

into the primary home and really speed this up. In other words, let's and I'm this is way low, but let's say you cleared 50,000 on that cottage from

renting it. Uh, and you put that towards your primary home just in one year. I mean, that's a pretty big chunk. I would consider that.

I don't think >> we have considered that. Yeah, we've considered renting because realistically we'll probably only be there three to four weeks. >> Again, it's something I wouldn't I would want it to keep it as mine and it's I don't want people ruining my rental. But if you guys feel good about it, there's nothing you're not violating any principles and it's a it could be a wise thing to do if you can make money off of it and it's paid for.

So there you're not trying to like arbitrage and you know, well, they're paying the mortgage for us. >> You're you're covering the expenses just fine.

>> Yes, we have done that in the past.

>> There was a [laughter] lot of hesitation there for the camel. I >> I think she thought I was serious. I was kidding. I would never do that.

I'm just a joke. It was a bad joke. >> Yeah, we're not going to pay full price. >> You are invited anytime.

[laughter] Come on down. >> No, I love it. I love this plan. And I think go use our mortgage payoff calculator at ramiesolutions.com and start to have some fun and dream with your husband and go, "Okay, if we did an extra four grand a month, we doubled the payment.

We could pay it off in like >> six years." And likely what happens is you pay it off in four or five because you guys are so focused with one singular goal. And I think that's that's the key here. You be in agreement about every single decision and find some compromise. That's okay.

>> Your husband's going to be thrilled. I'd get him some turtlenecks, maybe some chowder, >> you know.

>> That was pretty close. >> Not bad. >> Yeah. I mean, Sarah doesn't have a thick Boston accent, [music] so No, >> I feel like you're at least thicker than hers. >> Oh, good. >> I do like a thick chow, though.

>> I do, too. I do, too. >> Thank you, Sarah. Wicked good call. This is the [music] Ramsay Show.

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>> [music]

>> Hey, George. Guess what?

>> What? The all new Every Dollar is here.

You're wearing >> That was a setup, Ken. I thought you really had something for it. >> I know. I kind of like to do that. Uh >> I almost said chicken butt to be honest.

[laughter] >> I refrained. >> Wow. But yet you said it anyway. Yeah.

>> So, there you go. Uh, so I uh met with the team the other day. This the new every dollar is amazing. You hear this and I go I I'll be the judge of that.

>> Yeah. >> Do you know what I mean? I'm a little bit of a not a true cynic, >> but you're like, you want to see it to believe it. >> I would like to arrive at my own conclusion, not have a marketer tell me.

So, I had a meeting with the Every Dollar folks. You know, I was blown away by >> what's that? the uh 12 to 15 minutes of questions when you initially get in there. And I said to them, I go, "This is literally a more robust version of

someone calling in the show and getting our coaching. You're going to get eight minutes, eight, nine minutes with us.

>> 24/7 in your pocket is >> 247." And then I found out that for now,

and I told the people the other day, I don't know how how long Dave's gonna let this one go. >> But you also can get a 10-minute call with a real live financial coach.

>> That's right. Yeah. >> In addition to the articles, the here's

what you need to do. So, I I'm just telling you when I say it's no longer a budgeting app, I mean it. It really is.

>> Yeah. The group personal coaching, that's some of the best features. It's a digital financial coach that, oh, by the way, has a phenomenal budgeting functionality to it. That's my take.

What do you say? >> I actually just came from a lunch with those guys and they were showing me what they're working on. >> Mind blown. >> Oh, boy.

>> The functionality the or moving just past it being budgeting and more like how do we track all the pieces of your financial life so you get a real holistic picture and you know what to do next. That's where this thing is heading and you can come along for the ride and check it out. >> People where they get it. >> Go get it in the App Store or Google Play.

Just search every dollar. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. Like Ken mentioned, you got nothing to lose except maybe your stress. >> Oh, well played.

I see what you did there.

Adam, how can we help?

>> Hi. How are you guys doing? Thanks for taking my call. >> We're doing great. What's going on with you? >> So, my wife is an avid listener to your show. >> Well, of course she is. You married a good woman. Tell her we said thank you. >> I did. I did. I will. Um, I honestly,

just being honest, I don't listen to it very much unless she's in the car with me. But I have >> Okay, let's put Adam on hold. Who's next? Who do we have next? I'm kidding, Adam. I'm kidding. Go ahead.

>> But I have listened to the Audible book, Money Makeover. And let me just say 95%

of the things in there I 100% agree with. It's preaching to the choir. But there's one thing that you guys preach that uh my wife agrees with and I don't.

>> Oh, I love it. What is it?

>> That is paying off your mortgage.

>> I'll give you a little >> What a silly idea.

>> Right. [clears throat] No. >> So, we have a a $327,478.50

mortgage right now. Okay.

>> With a 3.625 interest rate. And I have

been very adamantly against paying that off for the last several years because

if we invest our money very conservatively, very safely, high yield savings account, money market account, it's been at 4 and a half to 5% for the last several years. Just recently it got down to 3.8. And my question to you is

why oh why would I pay off my mortgage

when I can make more having it in

conservative basically guaranteed money versus uh at 3.8 versus uh you know

getting back 3.625 by paying it off.

>> Adam would you believe >> 3.2,000 a year >> right now. Would you believe you're the first person to ever hit us with that?

>> I figured I wasn't but uh again I Here's

the question. You are not the first person. You are correct, sir. George, Telmoy, do you have $327,000 sitting in that savings account?

>> Uh, so not a savings. So, we've got uh

in money market account right now, we have enough to pay off our house. >> That's what I'm saying. So, you have the money to pay it off. >> Oh, yes, sir. And >> but you like to see it grow at 3.8%.

Which, by the way, you owe taxes on all the money you're making from that. You understand that? So, it's not apples to apples already. The interest can be written off taxes wise.

So >> the mortgage interest is what you're saying because you guys itemize every year. >> Correct. >> Okay. So I can give you the logical math answer and that's where you're going to want to spar.

But it's so far beyond that. And what your wife is getting at is it's not about the math. She does not care if you guys could make a thousand and you didn't that year because you paid off the mortgage. Because the other part you're not taking into account is once you free up that mortgage payment, number one, you can invest that amount and you'll likely be back to where you were pretty quickly.

I assume you guys have a great income the way you're talking. >> Uh, pretty good.

>> Okay. So, can we agree that you could save up 300,000 bucks pretty quickly with your income if you had zero debt?

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. Next question. Are you going to be

broke in retirement if you pay off your mortgage and liquidate that investment account? No, absolutely not. >> So, the argument is, do I want 5.6 million in retirement when I am 63 or

will it be 5.3 but with a paid for mortgage?

>> Can we agree that's kind of what we're It's kind of like both scenarios are pretty great. We can agree there.

>> Yeah. >> The other question, are you both working full-time right now?

>> Yes. >> Now, let's play this out. What if somebody lost their job, had a health situation, there was a recession, all of

the factors that can happen in life to where now you go, "Oh gosh, I'd rather not have a mortgage when life comes at me." >> So that's why I have the money in things where I'm not going to lose. I'm not going to put this money in the S&P 500

or some one of the markets that can fluctuate day by day. This isn't something that is safe like I was talking about either high yield savings accounts or the money market to where I can take that money out any time. If we did lose our job or let's say the money market or high yield savings accounts got down to 3.5. I could just take that

money and pay off the mortgage that day.

>> Okay. Well, have fun having a disagreement in your marriage for the rest of your life. >> Oh, I'm kidding.

>> That's not fair. >> Her security glands flaring up. It's not because of Ramsay. It's because there's something in her that knows that peace is more than just the spread. And that's what she's after. Nobody can come after your house. You own it free and clear.

If life happens, you're going to be okay. And the truth is, you're probably going to be okay either way. And so

paying it off, do you really think you'd sit there and go, gosh, I could have made $5,000 this year off that savings

account. Or you going to go, man, it feels good to not have a mortgage. And the flexibility we now have, the options we now have, the freedom we now have was well worth it.

Yeah, and I agree. I think it's a little bit of both. I think uh nobody's ever going to regret not having a mortgage.

Nobody's going to say, "Man, I wish I had my mortgage back." But uh you know, part of me would always be like, "Ah, gosh, that's $2,000 this year. I could have bought a new >> How much do you guys make something?" You know, >> um I do about 140 150 a year and she

does uh probably $200 250.

>> Okay. So, $2,000 is a drop in the bucket. We can both It's like kind of saying I'm doing the credit card game for the rewards. I like getting two grand free and I know it's not a big amount, but it just feels nice, >> right?

>> Yeah. You know, I'm sitting here listening, by the way, I'm always on this side like either I'm on with Dave or I'm on with a money personality and this call comes in and I'm always just sitting here, you know, it's like letting them do it and I'm like and I'm just listening for what's really going on.

there's two things. I heard you say a minute ago and George started talking.

He talked over he was so rude. So, I didn't pick up what he what you said, but I thought you said about the $2,000

>> and then she's like, I could have bought a mountain bike. Did you say that or am I hearing things? >> Yeah, I was I was just kidding around.

But yeah, could you But see, you weren't.

I I'm not a money expert, but I can tell you this. I've coached over 15,000 people live before. I'm an expert at hearing things and seeing things. And when I heard that, I went, "That's not a joke." And I'm going to tell you what I think's going on with this thing between you and your wife because George has explained it beautifully. So I have nothing to add to that. But let me tell you what I think's going on.

>> Your wife is looking at this emotionally and you're looking at this logically.

And I think you look at all money things as logic. Nothing wrong with that at all. You're a smart guy. You're not a goofball. You're not a loser. You've been very wise with money.

I just think you're going to have to decide in this situation, how important

is it to me to make the $2,000 every

year and either bank it or buy the mountain bike off of my interest and I feel so good about my logical choice or

do I want to meet my wife where she is and where she is emotionally and help her feel safe. I think that's the choice. That's my read and I think you just look at it totally different than she does. I don't think you need to walk a mile in her shoes for a little bit.

[music] >> The question is, is it worth paying 12 grand in interest to make 12 grand in a savings account? Basic math tells me it's a wash, dude. I'm just going to pay it off and get some peace in my life and happy wife.

[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. So glad you all are with us. We're having fun today as we take on your heavy questions. George is going to help you manage the money. I'm going to help you try to make more money. Let's get to it.

You ready to go, George? >> I'm pumped. Natalie is joining us in Sacramento. Natalie, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I was just curious if my husband and I should use part of our savings to start to pay off our loans faster or if

we should just keep that in the bank.

>> Tell us more.

>> How much do you have in the bank? >> My husband and I are both veterans. Um,

we have about 12,500 in savings.

>> Okay. Okay. And what's your debt situation?

>> Um, we have about $87,298

in debt. We have two student loans and a

new car and a credit card.

>> Okay. Give us those amounts. Walk us smallest to largest like we would be working through the debt snowball.

>> Yeah, the uh credit card is 1903.

So 1,93.

The student loan is 19581.

The other one is 20,978.

And then the car loan is 44836.

>> Woo. What is this car?

>> Yeah.

So, uh, it's a 2022 4Runner.

>> And what what is it worth? Kelly Blue Book value. Do you know?

>> I don't.

>> Okay. Wow. How many miles is it?

>> Um, just over 30,000.

>> And it's a 2022. I'm going to do a little research, George. Okay. While you do that, what is your household income?

>> Um, so our income is

I have this um

between the two paychecks is 4,960.

And then we get VA disability and that's

about 4,080 4,90. >> Okay, good. So, we have a great income here cuz you guys are bringing home >> Yeah. >> 9 grand. >> Yeah. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, I think one thing that could alleviate this immediately you're asking the best way to pay this off. Yes. You should use your savings except $1,000.

That's the baby steps. Baby step one, $1,000. Maybe step two, attack the debt using the debt snowball. So, anything that's not the thousand starter emergency fund, we're going to use to start knocking down this debt because that'll knock out your credit cards and a good portion of one of the student loans.

>> Yeah. >> And if I'm in your shoes and you really want to get out of the situation, I would just sell this 4Erunner. Now, you might be underwater on it, which is what Ken was angling at. >> They are. It's this is an estimate and I don't have all the details where you are in the market, but you're underwater.

It's somewhere between 32 to $40,000.

>> So, that's your next homework assignment is figure out what you could sell this car for, private party value. So, you can go to kbb.com and and look at that to see, hey, if we could sell it for 40 and we owe 44, great. We're going to use 4,000 of the savings to clear the title and maybe use some of the other money in savings to get a different car, right?

You need something to drive around in.

>> Mhm. >> You're both working full-time.

>> Yeah. His truck has paid off. So, it's just this now. My car died, so I had to get a new one. That's kind of >> Hold on. Hold on. Whoa. You didn't have to get a 40. You didn't have to get backwards. >> I know. >> You didn't have to get that car. >> I know. I know. >> So, what's your what's your car payment?

>> Uh 60. Wait, $667.

>> All right. Just for fun, I want you to just, you know, figure out what that would do to your monthly budget. That's a lot of money. you would get an $8,000.

That's a net raise. So that's more like 11 or 12,000 gross.

>> Yeah. >> So imagine I just started giving you a,000 bucks a month. Would you go, "Yep." >> Yeah. >> That's what selling that car will do for you. And you have to look at it that way. Or else it's Ken and George are mean. They're not fun. They're telling me it's unrealistic.

Well, it's not.

>> But you know, getting a piece of junk that gets you from point A to point B for this season of your life. This is for a season. And this is not like forever. Uh I I think that's huge for you. What caused you guys to want to actually turn this ship around?

>> Uh I've been listening to you guys on YouTube a lot the past month. So

>> So we just got into your head cuz we didn't show up. You had to be kind of looking >> we want to we want to move out of California and we want to eventually adopt and get a house and all that. And

I know we cannot do that with all this debt. We need to work on this debt now.

>> Good. Is your husband on board? Is he as fired up as you are? >> Oh, yeah. Completely. >> And you got the income. >> Completely. He's actually wanting me to spend more to to pay towards the debt than we have been. But >> what's stopping it? >> Yeah. That's >> uh I've been trying to build up our savings. I'm thinking about for what, you know, putting money down on a house.

No, no, no. That's too far in the future. I know. I see that now.

I see that. You've been listening to us for a month. >> So, have you heard us talk about the baby steps? I I don't want to just assume anything.

>> Yes. Okay. >> I I And that's why I'm like, "Okay, well, I've done step one. Technically, I'm on step two, but I have part of step three, but I need to just stop and do it step by step." >> Well, you've got 125 in savings.

So, what what do we tell people to do if they've got $12,500 in savings and they have debt? What do we tell them?

>> Pay it towards the debt. >> How much how much do we take out of that 125?

>> Well, I'm assuming it's going to be the 115. >> You got it. Tell her what she's won.

George, uh, raise to the tune of a thousand dollars once we sell this car.

So, here's what I would consider doing instead of using the savings to pay down the debt. I would get out of this car situation first. And so you might be underwater by a few grand. That's true.

>> Let's let's use that to clean that up.

Then we're going to take, let's say, another six or 7,000 and get yourself a used reliable car. Do a pre-purchase inspection. It's probably going to have a 100,000 plus miles on it. It's probably going to have some stains that you'd rather not see. But this is for a season. This is not your forever car.

This is like a year or two max as we get to a place of financial stability because you told me you want to adopt.

That's a big dream of yours, isn't it?

>> Mhm. >> You want to have your own place, your own house in a different state. That's a big dream of yours, isn't it? >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So, that dream is bigger than a vehicle.

We can always get another car, can't we?

>> Yep. >> So, most of that savings, uh, not most, but a good chunk of it's going to go to whatever this beater is, right? And I'm thinking a $5,000 car max >> that that clears half your debt. That's like cutting your jail sentence in half.

That car payment now goes into the debt snowball. >> That's huge. You can make some real groundup, can't you?

>> Yeah. >> So, your husband's right. It's rare that we say this on the show. It's mostly the wife is usually right. And I've been married 27 years, so I'm conditioned to say my wife is right. But in this case, your husband's right. You need to be putting more into this. And you guys are rice and beans. If Dave were here, he'd be going, "You guys don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're waiting tables." And it's rice and beans, beans

and rice. >> And you guys are just absolutely on fire to get this out of your life. That same

intensity continues into that emergency

fund of 3 to 6 months. Now we can begin

to save for the house and begin to charge. >> Check this out. You knock out this car, you got 42 left, and you start throwing four or five grand a month at it. You're done with this in 8 months.

>> Woo! I like that.

>> So, this house is going to be a whole lot closer versus keeping this [music] car around while it goes down in value.

You stay underwater. I think this thing is is tanking your financial future. Get rid of it. You know what Bear Grills would say? What's that? Jolly good.

Spot on. Not quite. I'm working on it.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome back, America. Thrilled that you've joined us here on the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me. The phone number is 88825-5225.

Back to the phones we go. Steve is joining us now in Houston. Steve, how can we help? >> Yeah. Hey, thanks uh Ken and George for taking my call. Um, I've got a uh question. When my son and daughter were born, my wife and I made lumpsum contributions to their 529s and their

UTMA account and now they're 9 and 12.

And those accounts have grown to be over $1.3 million.

>> Wow. >> I wanted to >> Yeah. I wanted to ask you guys what you thought uh I we should be doing to

prepare them whether you know we have wills and other other things. What we

should be doing to prepare them you know

for the future.

>> So these are not college savings plans.

Half half of the lump sum went into a 529 for each of them and then half went into a UT UTMA account for kind of ancillary expenses they might have.

>> Okay. In total, those add up to 1.3 million >> today, right? >> Okay. And how old are the kids? >> Nine and 12. >> Nine and 12. >> Oh wow. What was the lump sum?

>> The initial lumpsum for each of the 529s was 141,000. We had we had saved before they were born and made that contribution when they were. >> That's incredible. Okay. And the do we think we're going to use obviously a portion of this for college expenses?

>> You know, it's hard to say. I'd like to I'd like to say that they'll make their own decision when the time comes. Uh, you know, I have my own feelings, but it's it's I think they'll use the 529s,

uh, at least some of it.

>> Okay. And the the UTMAs, you got the UTMAs, those will transfer to them. I don't know what the in Texas what the uh laws are, but is it 18 or 21?

Okay. >> Depending on your state. So, I would look that up to see. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm not >> Because that's that's the downside of the UTMA is your kid. It'll be legally in their name at, you know, 18, a million bucks.

>> Yeah. >> And so, they can do what they want with that as adults. And so, that's a there's a risk there. I hope they grow up to be, you know, welladjusted kids who use the money for good and they buy their first home in cash and do all kinds of amazing things because you guys, I'm guessing, have set them up for that.

That's the goal. That that's the goal. And look, they're already listening to you guys. So, good.

Uh hopefully they do they do exactly what you said. >> Okay. So, what is your question today specifically? >> What what else should we be doing?

>> Well, as they you know, a 9-year-old

doesn't have any assets. A 12-year-old doesn't have any assets. as they get of age of 18 or 21 and those accounts go

into their names, that's when I would say, "Hey, let's now set them up with their own wills." >> Okay. So, that's not something we would need to address now. We would just wait until they're say 21 or 18.

>> Exactly. Cuz right now, you're still you still maintain the management of that account of both of those accounts.

>> So, if something did happen to you know you or your spouse, well, you have in your will, here's what happens. here's the beneficiaries on all of these accounts. And so all of that is already in place. And with your trust, you can set those up to say, "Hey, at 21, here's some here's what we want to do for each kid.

At 30, here's what we're going to do for the kids." >> So you can set that up how you wish in the trust. But there's nothing else to do. You guys have done a great job.

>> Okay. Well, that's that's good to know.

>> They could use it for their kids and their kids. So you've kind of created generational wealth that way, which is amazing. >> Okay. >> So I would look into the laws of how soon you have to use that money. There's some new things with the Secure 2.0 act where you can transfer a portion uh 35,000 total over to a Roth IRA. So there's a lot of things you can do there. I would definitely I I hope you have a trustworthy investment professional in your life. If not, go to ramseyolutions.com and get connected over there.

>> Yeah, >> that's incredible. What a way to set up your kids. >> I'm staggered by that. That amount is unbelievable. So, my goodness. I almost wanted to say to him, and I love the advice you gave, but I almost wanted to said, "Well, you've done enough.

>> You've done plenty, my friend. >> You've done well, Steve. Way to go." >> And the fact that a nine and 12-year-old are listening to us.

>> They need to get outside, Ken.

>> They probably do. Or else they're going to look as pale as you.

>> That's true. I could use some sun. I'm not on the pickle ball court as often.

>> Yeah. But what do you have an aversion to vitamin D? I mean, what's the problem? >> Well, you know, I'm working in here all day. A lot of fluorescent. What are you doing on the weekend? >> I got a one-year-old, man. Take her to the park. Wow. Now I'm a bad dad all of a sudden. >> Well, maybe you need some vitamin D. Let's go to Rebecca who joins us in Orlando, Florida. Rebecca, how can we help?

>> Thank you for taking my call. My husband and I are new empty nesters. We are baby

step three and I will be inheriting about 50,000 next spring. We have 250,000 and for saving plans and IAS for

our retirement and once I turn 65, I'll

have about a small pension of about $500 a month. I was just wondering um in the

next 13 years or so that we have before retirement, is it smart to even

aim for or try to be a stalbert? We live

in Florida now, but we're from Ohio. My husband has always wanted to move back and I have always wanted to grow up and be a snowbird one day where I lived half the year in one state and half the year in the other. Is that something Dave ever recommends?

>> I don't think he's against that. I've never heard him speak negatively toward it. The one thing you I mean financially speaking you'd pay cash for that other property, >> right? So, in that in that mindset, we

own our home now, but we owe about 120

on it. It's worth 250. We're in Florida

now. Um, so I mean, we've got about halfway paid off. The 50,000 inheritance is going to go right at that. >> And you like where you're at? >> I'll help pay that off. We like it, but we're not determined to stay here. It's it's like I I would be fine with a one-bedroom or a tiny house in retirement if I could have live in both states. My husband would some space >> I mean six months out of the year that's a big chunk that's not exactly a week.

And so I would look at you know properties that where you could stay all year if you wanted to that are comfortable enough. But I I see nothing wrong with your plan as long as we are paying off the mortgage, we have the emergency fund in place. We're investing for the future. we have a solid nest egg.

Uh so don't go rob your retirement in order to pay cash for this property in Ohio. You want to make sure that we're saving up for that separately over the next, you know, decade or whatever your timeline is. >> It's doable. >> Okay.

>> Do you know if it's smarter to rent

um the half a year and just own a home in one state? Because I know Dave's like, you know, you don't want to own property in another state or far away from you because you have to manage it and look for it. If you're talking about renting it out, would you guys want to rent it out the other half of the year? Would that be the goal?

>> No, probably not.

>> You just want to keep a few. Dave doesn't want strangers in his house where he's going to stay half the year. I can tell you that. >> But but but other people can and that's perfectly fine. So is the question, would you rent in Ohio for half the half the year and then go back to Florida

>> or vice versa? Yes. Because right now, like I know the homes around here rent for about 2,000 a month in the winter months. I live basically in the village of um >> what would rent cost you in what would rent cost you in Ohio?

>> It's I think it would be around 1300 a month right now. Of course, you know, 13 years from now. >> I think I don't know what George thinks, but George is also not as fun as I am and he doesn't he's not as carefree and spontaneous. >> We can all admit that. >> I I but I don't I don't hate that idea

as long as it's in the budget. In other in other words, if because if you get tired of it, you still got your place in Florida and it feels like we're starting to go, hey, it would kind of be fun to go back to Ohio for a while from our roots, but we really like Florida. So, it feels like Florida's the anchor. So, renting in Ohio, a it's cheaper.

>> Can I show you some numbers? Because I agree with Ken. There's nothing wrong with renting and I would test it out for the first year by doing that. But look at this. $2,000 a month for 6 months.

It's 12 grand a year, right?

>> Mhm. >> So, let's say the house was 400 grand you could buy. Well, you could rent for 33 years before you've spent 400 grand in rent. Yeah.

>> Now, you don't own an asset at the end of that, but if that's a choice you make, that's totally fine if you don't want to hassle with it. But then again, you got to find a place to rent every single year for 6 months, which might be difficult on its own. I don't know many places would let you do that. >> I agree.

But the spontaneous natur spontaneous nature of it. I also think it, you know, you're not paying for the housing [music] expenses like all the upkeep. It's kind of intriguing. I kind of like it.

Maybe do it for a year or two and then if you want to buy, you go buy in cash. I tried to talk Stacy and let us rent our place for Thanksgiving and make some big cash.

This is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show where we help you win with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me. We're so excited that you're with us on the debtree stage out there are Lucas and

Alexis. Welcome.

>> Thank you. >> How you guys doing? >> We're doing great. Happy. >> You're doing good. Okay. Good. Good. Good. And that tells me you're here to do a debtree scream. Is this true?

>> This is true. >> This is true. Okay. Great. Where are you guys from? >> We're from Clarksville, Tennessee. >> Okay. Not far away. >> Right off the road. Okay. Very nice. Traffic was good this morning. I hope >> it wasn't too bad. >> Okay. Nice. Nice. Nice. All right. Let's get the details. How much debt did you pay off? We paid off $81,188.

>> $81,88.

Is that what I heard? >> $81,188. Correct.

>> 1888. Excuse me, George. I don't know what's going on with my voice here. We'll get you there. >> Yeah. I took a week off for spring break and it's like my vocal cords are gone. I don't know what's going on. Uh, and how long did that take? >> It took 14 months. >> 14 months. Okay. And what was your range of income during that time? >> Range of income was 72,000 all the way up to about 86,000.

>> Okay. Great. Hey, what do you guys do for a living? >> I'm military. >> Okay. >> I stay home with the children. >> Yay. Love that. That's awesome. And uh what branch of military are you in? >> Army. >> Okay, great. Thank you for your service.

Thanks for your support. >> Yeah, absolutely. All right. So, uh take us to 14 months ago. What happened that

made you guys decide to get on this journey? >> Well, it was about nine months before we started that our firstborn Leila over there, she was born and she just turned two the other day. Uh well, we transitioned to one income and you know, we were doing okay, but we weren't really just weren't saving enough that we wanted to. We weren't investing as much as we wanted to.

We knew that we wanted to optimize things in one way or another. And so, we found the Ramsay show and uh I started listening to it on my commute to work and I brought it to Alexis here and I said, "Hey, I think we can maybe pay our debt off in a year, maybe a little bit more." That's how it worked out. but she took it and uh she did a budget for us and she said, "Wow, I think I think we could do this." And so that's exactly what we did and we just kind of stepped it in gear from there and then uh just recently we had Claire here.

She's 3 months old and >> so fun. So So what I understand here this was uh there wasn't a lot of push back at all if any from Alexis.

Sounds like >> that's correct. >> Wow. What kind of debt was it?

>> It was uh student loans. It was a

personal loan. It was a car loan, a

little bit of credit card, and some medical debt. A little bit of everything. Pretty pretty normal. >> Yeah, you had a nice little buffet. >> Little popie, if you will. Cornucopia.

>> That's even better. >> So, were you guys just normal? Like, how long you been married now? >> Almost three years.

>> And you' never been debtree. You got married, had some debt, kept some debt, acrewed some debt, and then there was this wakeup call when you go down to one income where you're like, "All right, things are tight. This is not as fun as I thought it would be. Even with the blessing of of children and so you got your butts and gear and just 14 months into this thing, it's gone now and you got your income back in your life.

>> Well, I'm just really excited to start uh building that emergency fund up eventually start investing and then saving for our girls college >> and then yeah, taking it from there. So, >> and you guys, I mean, you look very young. >> Can you tell us? >> 27. >> Wow. >> I'm 25. 25 and 27 and you got this stuff

out of your life. And I love that there was no excuses made. You didn't sit and wallow in pity and go, "Well, this is life. This is the American way.

Collect our payments. Someone will forgive the student loans at some point. These credit card companies, at least I'm getting my 2%." You guys actually woke up to this. Was there a a tool, a resource, something that gave you that new knowledge?

>> Well, the podcast gave us a lot of inspiration and uh specifically the debtree screams.

>> Yeah. Talk about the community of people that you had with you. >> Oh yeah. So my parents are here with us.

Uh there's some they were some of our biggest cheerleaders and then I've got to shout out my grandparents. They were doing the Ramsay plan before the Ramsey plan was cool. >> Yeah.

>> We drew a lot of inspiration from them as well. >> Just common sense debtfree living.

That's correct. >> Oh, that's incredible. >> So, you got some other young couples, you got middle-aged couples, maybe maybe you got some older couples that are listening right now. >> Yes. >> What would you tell them? >> We have uh we have some good friends, uh Adam and Emily Fisher. They're actually going through the plan right now. >> Oh, good. >> Yeah. So, they kept us in it and we're keeping it, you know, with them and we're, you know, staying the path together. >> Yeah. Make the budget and stick to it.

>> So, you're So, for you it's budget, budget, budget. That's the key. All right. Anything else, Lucas?

What's the key? >> Budget's big. I think uh consistency is also a big thing. You know, life happens and you got to replace the tires and the car breaks down, but you can't let it take you too too far off the path.

You got to get right back on and get get back into it. So, >> well, I know you've inspired a whole new set of people out there. So, you're paying this forward, especially for those service members out there. I mean, the difference that it makes when you're debtree and you're making the sacrifice, but you're not worried about the finances at home.

That makes all the difference. >> It really does. That's huge.

All right. So, are we ready? Are we going to get the Are we going to get the little kiddos up here?

>> I mean, I I think we can. >> It looks like Is it Claire, the youngest? Yeah. >> She in a slumber right now.

>> She's out cold. >> She's about to wake up from the scream anyways. So, we'll see. We got And the 2-year-old's meandering somewhere around the lobby.

There she goes with the parents. >> Okay, good. We got the kiddos, >> all the support. >> So, we got Leila, who's two, and Claire is a newborn.

>> I hope you're watching on YouTube America because this might be the cutest family you'll see today.

Okay. All right. Here we go. Let's run it down. We got Lucas uh and Alexis along with Claire and Leila. They're from Clarksville, Tennessee, and they paid off $81,188 over 14 months, making $72,000 up to

$86,000.

Lucas and Alexis, take it away. Let's hear your debtree scream. >> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> There it is.

>> And the babies aren't crying. So, that was the baby survived it. Yeah, I like that. >> And we've got a special gift for you guys as well.

We forgot to mention two Every-Doll gift cards. Good for a one-year membership. So, you guys can use those every dollar memberships or you can pay them forward to someone else to get them on the journey. But, uh you said the key is budgeting and so you will enjoy that uh for sure as you continue your financial journey.

>> That is your gift and you get to give one away to somebody. I like that idea.

>> I like the two. >> Maybe you give both away if they already have it. But, you know, >> that is true. Or >> you use it for yourself. There's no judgment here. >> No judgment at all. It's free. It's Dave's stuff. You and I love to give away Dave's stuff for free.

>> It cost us nothing and it makes Ken look good. >> That's right. >> We love it. It's like a bumper sticker. I like that. You know, it's interesting, George, when we because this is really cool. We got a 27 and a 25year-old. And

I think it's important to kind of We got new people that are joining the show all the time. So maybe this is the first debt free scream that some people have ever heard or seen. >> Yeah. >> I mean just set the table right now.

Okay. So um let's say they're let's say they're making the 86 or maybe somewhere between the 72 and 86. Now they're debtfree. >> Mhm. >> Um and so now they begin the process of whether it's baby step three then 3B,

you know, and then they start that 15%.

I I want you to paint a picture to what

wealth looks like for this young couple at their age. He's 25. Let's say they get through three in the next year and they begin investing it. Let's say he's 26. >> Well, from 26 to let's say 62. That's

fair, right? >> Sure. >> And in military, he'll probably retire early with a beautiful some beautiful benefits there. But let's just take $86,000 and take 15% of that. Well, that's 129. And so every month, they could invest $1,75.

And let's say they start from zero. That 175 every single month with an average return of about 10% which is what we've seen is $4.5 million. All right, drop 62

years old. >> Drop it down to 8%. >> All right, let's go down to eight. Let's be more conservative. 2.7 million.

>> Okay, >> I'd still take that. And that's outside of any other investing they do. That's saying he never gets a raise.

>> That doesn't include his military retirement. So, this is just the process as we teach it. And you look at doing it that young. It's really huge.

And and this this is great, too, because this is a young couple that had again uh normal situations, all different types of debt, $81,000, and they knocked it out really quick. That's really doable. I mean, $81,000, if you just look at that and you go, that's a lot of money to pay off for a young couple. They did it in 14 months.

>> Wild cash flowing some things. We didn't get into that. Yeah. >> Uh and with with a with a stay at home spouse, that's huge.

So, we're not pitching get-rich stuff

here, quick stuff. We're not pitching, you know, this unbelievably impossible thing that only a few fortunate souls accomplished. >> Yeah, there was no trust funds, no lottery winners here, just hard work, sacrifice. >> It's doable. And that's why I love the story. So, good stuff. All right, we're going to go out and celebrate with Lucas, Alexis, Ila, and Claire. And George, don't don't kiss the babies.

>> I stay away. >> Okay, that's a little creepy these days.

Don't do that. We'll be back right after that with more of your calls. This is the Ramsey Show.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. [music] Our scripture today comes from Deuteronomy 11:12. It is a land the Lord your God cares for.

[music] The eyes of the Lord your God are continually on it from the beginning of the year to its end. Our quote [music] from Thomas Soul. My favorite New Year's resolution was to stop trying to reason with unreasonable people. This has reduced both my correspondence and my blood pressure. It's a good one. The great Thomas Soul always still hits.

Dropping the quotes. >> Timeless like they're hot. Dave is joining us in Maui, Hawaii. Dave,

>> how can we help? >> Aloha. >> Aloha, sir. Aloh. Boy, wish I was with you right now, pal. >> Sitting next to George, you know. Yeah,

>> but such is life.

>> So, in a nutshell, I uh 55, no

retirement, credit is shot.

Um own about

190 195 on my mortgage. My real estate's

worth about 4 million.

>> Whoa. >> Um yeah. Well, back in 2004 when they were

handing out mortgages like candy, I bought three homes and so I have, you

know, whatever rental property and then a home that I live in. >> How much do you owe? How much do you owe on the $4 million worth of property?

>> 1901 195.

>> Oh, that's not bad. >> But here's the kicker. Here's the kicker. >> Okay. So, I owe God $200,000 in taxes

that I haven't filed.

>> Why? >> When's the last time you filed?

>> Yeah, because I sold two years ago.

Because I sold a home and then

um I bought a you know, like like I said, they were handing out You remember that when they were >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we're trying to follow Where's the cash? Where's the cash that you made? I bought another I I

bought two more homes and I I paid them

off cash. Yeah, in cash, but I didn't

pay the taxes on that sale.

>> So, what's your question for us?

>> I guess I got to pay the taxes.

>> Well, that's not a question. That's a fact. >> Well, but I So, I got But I don't have the money. So, I guess I got I got to sell.

I don't Well, you know, I have three kids. I just put one through college.

They have another one in college. I you

know uh >> Well, let me tell you something. This this is this reminds me of a football game scenario. All right. You got you got no timeouts >> and you you you got to you got to go to the Hail Mary. That's all you got. You got to sling it to the end zone.

>> Your least favorite property. >> And so that's the Hail Mary in this one.

You don't have any other options. You got to pay these taxes or you're going to jail. Dave,

>> you mean am I missing something?

>> No. >> Okay. So, I mean, that's that's really what we've got to do here. You got to sell one of these properties, >> dude. Out [clears throat] of all the people you could owe money to, the IRS is the worst one. >> They are the most powerful collections agency in the world. They can garnish your wages. They can seize your assets.

>> So, do you want to do it the hard way or do you want to do it the easy way where you're in control?

>> What's your least favorite property? What's it worth? What could you sell it for?

>> A million. >> Okay, so you sell it for a million. Hold on a second. I got to tell >> I'm paying taxes on that again.

>> But Dave, I don't understand why you're so like

[clears throat] I mean you you literally sold and made money on you made a bajillion dollars. >> You did not pay your taxes. >> Yeah, I know. But this is Hawaii, so it's different here than it would be in Wisconsin. I mean, >> so what are the taxes owed if you sell this property?

>> No. No. Time out. We're getting off subject again. I was making a point, Dave. You're acting You're No, not football, but you're acting as though like this is this Oh, I can't believe I got This was always a part of the deal.

>> Because I want I want my kids to have, you know, uh >> they will they can visit you in jail if you want while you have these properties. That could be fun. >> We're only talking about one house to clear this debt.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, let's rock through this. >> Yeah. I don't I don't know. I don't know. I'm just stressed out about it.

Obviously, that's why I'm not doing it.

>> Dave, listen to me. I know you're stressed. You're not thinking clearly. And George and I would like to help you think clearly. Will you let us help you think clearly?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Let's walk through this. George, let's let's walk George for a million.

What are your taxes owed? >> There you go. On this on the property sale, what will you owe in taxes?

>> Do the do the math. I don't know.

>> What do you mean you don't >> on the house that I haven't sold yet?

Yes. >> There'll be a what? A capital gains tax on it.

>> Yeah. I mean, I've had the property for 20 years. >> Let me ask this a simpler way, Dave. The property that we're saying, one of your properties, we're saying to sell to clear all this mess up, what will you walk away with, my friend, when the deal is done, what will you walk away with?

>> Uh, maybe six.

>> 600,000. How much do we owe the IRS?

>> Because I got to pay the two. I got to pay the two. I Dave, let me do the talking and you answer. Dave, let me walk you through this. I'm gonna be better at this than you. All right.

>> You're going to walk away with $600,000.

How much do you owe the IRS?

>> 200. >> Great. So, we pay that. How much does that leave you left over?

>> Well, that that So, if I sell it for a million, then >> he's saying he'll have six after he pays the IRS.

I don't know why this is so difficult to answer these questions. Dave, sell a house >> after I paid the tax on that, too. So, I'm I'm figuring 200 another 200 maybe or more. >> Let's just guesstimate 200 in taxes for the property sales.

200 pay back the IRS. You have 600 left. You can pay off your own mortgage with that. So, you got 600,000 you got out of this mess, my friend.

That's what we're trying to help you understand. This is easy. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You're sitting there going, "Ah, I don't want to get rid of one of the properties again. You want to go to jail?" >> They're going to seize your assets.

>> The question is, do you want to do it now on your terms or on their terms later, and I'm telling you, you want to do it now on your terms. So, your real estate portfolio will go down to $3 million, and you can wipe your tears with $100 bills. I don't care.

>> Yeah. None of us are feeling bad for you right now, Dave. You're you're really kind of blessed to be able to get out of this hole. Really blessed. I mean, holy

>> And then with the other money, with more profits, I'm paying off the mortgage and I'm saying no to debt ever again. It's what got you in this mess in the first place. >> Yeah. And so we got real stareyed with the real estate portfolio.

It's time to take a step back and go, "All right, I'm 55. I've been living with a lot of stress. The next 20, 30 years of my life, I want peace. I want to retire with dignity one day.

And that might mean I need to slow down on my real estate guru tactics here and start putting away money in retirement and start diversifying the portfolio and living on less than I make. >> I mean, this really is, you talk a lot about traps.

We're not picking on Dave. Dave's a smart guy. Thankfully, Dave can get out of this very well, >> but this is the trap of I've got all this stuff and I got I mean, he literally was like, I got to pay my taxes. >> And if anyone understands t, you know, not wanting to pay taxes, it's Ken Coleman. >> I don't like taxes at all. I mean, I'd go throw tea in the harbor that today.

I'd do all over again. I would I you know what? I would have been there. I would have been on the ship throwing the tea into the harbor. But the bottom line is you got to pay the taxes. And all of

this gain, to your point, doesn't matter if your life gets ruined because the IRS wants to make a poster boy out of you.

>> And here's what I do. When I'm in a pickle like this and it's beyond my pay grade, I reach out to an expert. And in this case, Dave needs a great tax pro.

So, I would jump on to ramseyolutions.com/tax.

Get in touch with a Ramsay trusted taxpro who can help you bring facts to the table. Right now, it's a lot of unknowns. It's a lot of just fear and stress and I don't even know how much taxes I can. What would the taxes be on that?

Well, a tax pro will just help you go, "All right, here's what the taxes would be. Here's the most efficient strategic way to do this. Here's how to deal with the IRS." And they're not going to be scared. They're not going to bat an eyelash at this.

>> And and again, to new listeners, okay, you've been listening to this call. This is I'm going to go back to the football analogy. Do you want to be stuck with no timeouts, 5 seconds left in the game, and hope for a miracle through a Hail Mary or a >> fourth down situation? >> Or do you No, you want to have a good game plan.

There's no need for all the stress.

Just run the baby steps like it's a play. This is what we do on first down.

This is what we do on second down. This is what we do on third down. And here's the deal. Guess what? We know how it's going to turn out. You know, we know if we run the ball this way and everybody executes their blocks, we're going to get a first down. >> Nobody wins the Sugar Bowl accidentally.

You got to be intentional. >> You You got to You got to get a game plan and you got to practice and you got to stay with it. So, there it is. >> Go dogs. >> No Hail Marys. No Hail Marys. Are you

really rooting for Georgia? You don't even know who they are. >> I know you love them. >> Yeah, I do. >> Doesn't that make me a great friend? [music] >> You are a good friend. All right. Good show today. Thanks to David Foron, our fearless producer, keeping us on the air. My goodness. I don't know how he does it in spite of ourselves. >> Thank you, America, for listening. This is the Ramsay Show.

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## 108. Managing Money Well Matters At Every Income Level | February 27, 2026


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[music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. The

phone number to jump in 888255225LE8825-55225.

Alongside the lovely Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman. We're excited to be here to help you today. We started off with Lucas in Austin, Texas. Lucas, how can we help?

>> Hey, um I am calling in because I have

um I was looking for a way to like manage my finances better. Um and I'm 28

years old. I'm single. I have some

credit card debt as well as like some student loan debt.

>> Okay. So, just an overall direction is

what you're looking for from us.

>> Yeah, pretty much. >> Okay. Yeah. So, how much debt does all that total?

>> Uh, so it's probably closer to um about

30 30,000.

>> 30,000. Okay. How how much of that is credit card and how much is that student loan?

So, it's 14,500 in credit card and

student loan is about 20,000.

>> 20. Okay, cool. And how much do you make a year?

>> Um, I make about $32,000 a year or like

16 an hour. >> Okay. What do you do?

>> Um, I work in like mobile device repair

and sales. >> Okay. For like a cell phone company type thing in a store. Okay, >> basically. >> Perfect. >> Okay, great. Well, um, yeah, I'd love for Ken to jump in on just the the career side because I think you still have so much ahead of you. >> Where do you want to be?

>> Um, well, right now I'm kind of in an in between spot because, you know, um, I

like what I do and I like working with, you know, physical technology and things like that, but then like trying to

transition to something a little bit more, you know, viable for the future is what I'm looking into.

um probably trying to get into more like um like data [clears throat] processing and things like that. >> Okay. So, have you done enough research to know what what that could look like as far as position A, position B, position C?

>> Um not yet. I'm still kind of in the phase of trying to figure out like which direction to go with it. I mean, I've been looking into more like data science and um things like that. So, that's kind of where I'm at. Okay. And trying to transition my career path over there.

>> Okay. Well, real quick and then and we'll get back to Rachel here and kind of walk you through what you need to do. But, uh, you do need to increase your income. Um, and and and I'm saying that separate of us trying to figure out which long-term direction that you're going to go.

So, while you are in the process of discovery, uh, and I'm going to help you with that in just a moment, you still need to be making more money because right now at 28 and single with the debt you have, the one thing you have is time >> and you need to make time.

We're saying I need a second job and I

need to make an additional $2 to $3,000 a month. That would be the goal that I would give you. So, what you would do is say, "What can I do now that allow me to make an additional 2 to three grand a month?" Because you're at 32,000 a year, I believe, is what you said. And so, you need to increase that.

And that will allow you to get through the steps that Rachel's going to walk you through. But here's here's what I give you quick advice.

>> What I would do is is use this idea that I've introduced before called the proximity principle. And it's simply this. I want to get around people that are in the space or spaces that I'm considering. And that's lunch, that's coffees, that's hey, will you connect me to somebody over here that you know, and you want to do a good old-fashioned term paper and you're going to sit with this person and ask enough questions that you could do a term paper on their job.

We're talking high school term paper, nothing complex. And what you're doing there is is you're getting clarity on the role itself. what it takes to win in the role, what it takes to get qualified the role, how how I get placed, how I move up. And in doing all of that, your head and heart are going to get connected.

The head's the information, the heart will be the emotion to say, I'm excited about that. I'm going to do one thing. I'm going to give you at the end of the call. I'm going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

It has the Get Clear Assessment in it.

It's going to really help you. So, that's my gift to you. Okay?

>> Okay. I appreciate that. >> Yeah. Listen, more money. Now, Rachel,

he starts making more money. What does that look like to pay off his debt?

>> Yeah, because that those are your two big um parts of the equation, Lucas, is the income side and the expenses side.

But you're probably only bringing home what, three grand a monthish, >> would you say? >> It's more Yeah, it's closer to about two. >> Yeah, >> about 2,000 a month. >> Yeah. >> So, >> yeah. >> How are you paying are you are you living at home?

So, I live with um two roommates. I only

pay about $600 a month and I rent two rooms in a house. >> Perfect. Good for you. That's that's great because the living expenses is

usually one of your highest line items in the budget. And so for a lot of people, they're paying, you know, a thousand, you know, even 2,000 for mortgages. I mean, it's just like it just can get so high. So that 600 is it it honestly I mean that that's a great place to be because honestly Lucas when you leave your job at 5:00 >> I would go work somewhere from 6:00 to 9 and I would do that four times a week and on and I would do one weekend and seriously if you can get $2 to $3,000 >> you could have you could have this all cleaned up in 10 months >> which is wild to think you could have all your debt paid off but you have to have a goal from a income perspective and that's going to be your biggest bag.

I don't think there's many expenses you probably can cut that's going to make that big of a difference. Do you know what I mean?

have the time >> and it's just going to be hard. It's just 10 months of just grinding it out.

But a lot of people do that, Lucas, sometimes for two, three years uh to get

on the other side of it. But I think that you uh yeah, there's there's a lot of upside. It's just going to be the work is the equation, that part of the equation that's going to be really big. And like Ken said, it's and it's not may not be career stuff, right?

Right. I mean, you may be waiting tables, bartending, like whatever it looks like to go and earn some extra money.

down, you know, down the road. So, that would be my two big goals for you. But, if you hold in the line, we'll get you Ken's book and then we'll also get you every dollar. This is our budgeting app, but it also will look at your entire financial picture and help walk you through um how to do how to basically do the baby steps. So, you can enter in your information in that app and it really walks you through. But, but when you're looking at your debt to attack it, the debt snowball is what we

recommend. And so, taking those credit cards because how many credit cards is that? 14,000.

>> Um so, it's between two credit cards.

one credit card is basically um I I

applied for it when I was younger and they gave me a 14,000 credit limit and I

was like I don't need that much but I ended up >> living off of it cuz I was making like

>> $10 to 12 an hour at one job and uh I

had to have some sort of extra income because at the time I was paying for an apartment that was $1,400. So I just kept putting rent on that card and eventually it I just maxed it out. It wrecked it. >> And the other card. Yeah. And then the other card was like $500. Um and yeah,

that's kind of where that's at.

>> Okay. So, I would have a goal uh to get $1,000. Do you have anything saved at all? Any cash?

>> Uh not really. [laughter] >> Okay. Yeah. So, yes, your first goal would be to be get $1,000. We're at the end of February right now. Make it a goal by March 15th to get $1,000.

Whatever that looks like. You got to sell stuff. You got to work extra. [music] And then from there, you're going to start saying, "Okay, this $500 credit card, we're going to pay that off." And have an aggressive goal [music] at the end of March, midappril, that credit card's gone.

And then you're going to start attacking [music] that 14 the or the other credit card with the rent. And then start attacking the student loans. So you do it by smallest to largest. But yeah, hang on.

Christian will pick up and we'll get you all that stuff, Lucas.

>> [music]

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[music]

[music]

Alysa is joining us now in Atlanta.

Alyssa, how can we help?

>> Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. My question to you is should I take

should I move out of my house which is

owned by my mom and her partner. They

are not married. They have two mortgages which is the apartment I live in which I pay in full for every month is $2,600.

They have a home that they live in.

Their mortgage is $4,300.

They moved out um of my apartment 8

months ago to move into their home and now she wants to leave him and we're trying to figure out what the best what

the best move is. >> She wants to leave him. Is that what you said? >> She wants to leave him and she wants to

either move into my apartment or really

she wants me to move into her house um

the one that they're paying for together. have him move into the apartment so no one gets, you know, quote unquote burned. Um, but you know,

that's going to be a big change in my life and I'm >> Yeah. So, let's pause right there. Let's just pause, okay? And I appreciate, we're honored that you called for our opinion and believe me, we have opinions and we'll give them to you. But before we get there, let's just let's just go where you are.

>> Where are you at? What was your knee-jerk reaction? What is your feeling right now? What decision do you think is right for you? Tell us.

>> So, my ideal situation would be to I

told them when they moved, I'm like, if I'm going to be paying everything, I'm paying the property tax basically my own landlord. Um, why not just give me the

gift of the home of the apartment, which they didn't do. Um, my immediate

reaction would be have my mom move in,

though. it would be, you know, a big change because I I run a business out of my house, so it's going to be a little bit tighter. Um, but my mom is very like

pushing me to move into the house because she feels like we won't be able to get into another house.

>> Pause real quick. I'm sorry. This is because I'm not really clear and I don't want to confuse you or the audience. So, yes, >> you're saying apartment and house.

You're currently living in a place and you said your first reaction was for mom to move in with you where you are now.

Correct?

>> Yes. Because they just took they just

moved out of the apartment which they own that I'm living in um to move into

their house. So they took on a $400,000.

That's not your problem. That's not your problem though. >> That's I don't even care about that. And the musical houses is confusing. So you you think the best move is for your mom to move in with you, but it comes with some headaches. That's what I heard.

>> Correct. >> All right. So if you think that's best, we start there. And I can tell you Rachel and I just said her house is not

your problem. And mom is trying to manipulate you. My viewpoint to move in to help her with a mortgage that she can't handle. >> There's no boundaries. Alissa, she's leaning on you almost like a second. She wants to break out, her boyfriend, him moving to your place. This is wacky.

>> Yeah. Alyssa, is any is your name on any of these properties from like a legal perspective of owning? >> My name is not on any property.

>> Okay. A and then they're going to break up. So Alyssa, I [clears throat] mean this sounds extreme. I almost which would probably piss your mom off, but I almost would just move out, get out of the middle of this triangle and just go rent an apartment. be a complete bystander in this and then be able to help and coach your mom of hey mom.

>> Yeah, these properties because I bet both of their names are on right on on the apartment and the home which is going to be a mess for your mom because they're going to have to possibly refinance to get one name off the loan.

I mean, it's just going to be it's a it's going to be a disaster. And so, if I were you, I see disaster playing out with unhealthy mom with no boundaries.

And this would be a this would be a harsh move, but it would to say like, "Hey, I I have to I have to step away

and and then from your point of strength, be able then to come in and help where you can and where it's appropriate, but not out of this desperation of your mom because she can't get her act together." >> Are you >> That sounds mean, but [laughter] >> May I add one more thing for >> Absolutely. I don't think gi they've been together for over a decade. So with

that said, I don't think that one of them are going to go through the headache of taking each other's name off. Like they trust each other enough, although they shouldn't. They trust each other enough and they know that they're both stable enough to keep everybody's

name. >> What does How does that change? Okay, great. How does that change what we're telling you that you should do?

>> No, that doesn't that doesn't change. I just um just what >> my goal this year I mentioned $30,000.

>> Yeah. >> So, I'm not paying that much. I pay about $2,600 a month in total with everything. And um I my goal this year

is I'm like in the baby steps and I my goal this year is to pay off my $30,000 in debt, which is more than possible.

>> Yeah. >> So, I just don't know. I mean, it's just

going to be more difficult. But I guess that's I >> Why is it going to be what's going to make it more difficult >> if you move?

>> If I move. >> Why? >> Yes. >> Give me some evidence. You may be right.

>> In my area, it's probably going to be more expensive. I am going to need a twobedroom at least in order to continue running my side business. >> What is your side business?

>> I am a waxer.

>> A waxer. Oh >> yes. >> Sorry, got that one a little late. Okay, great. [laughter] But I mean, why? But appreciate the service. >> Well, that's great. But I mean, all you need I mean, okay, two-bedroom, that's fine, but you could get a roommate, >> split a threebedroom, you know what I mean? You could I I would challenge you to find some uh some small studio. I

would just look into it. Do you know what I mean? Like >> cuz and the reason to do all of this is not really a financial move. It's more of a of a boundary play because >> yeah, you got to get out of this mess >> that there's just a relational entanglement >> or or you either have to just have a have a strong boundary with your mom at some point in your life, right?

>> and and and that's just not a that's not a blossoming relationship, you know what I mean? From a from a daughter to a mother. So, I'm just >> Yes. Yeah, >> I would add >> I've just gotten used to living by myself, so I don't really want to live with her.

>> Yes. And you don't have to. And >> by the way, that's going to create a problem. And and and and mom's going to try to manipulate you.

I have a good feeling that if you tell mom or you do what we're suggesting that mom's going to throw the darts at you.

wrong?

>> That's right. >> Okay. So, are you prepared? You don't have to be on this call, but I mean, how prepared do you think you are to be able to stand up to that?

>> I think I'm prepared.

>> Okay. I hear the emotion. >> Your guys's judgment? >> Yeah. Hey, what emotion? What What What do What are you feeling? Fear, sadness?

What's going on?

>> Um sadness to leave her on her own. But

>> I mean, my I've told her a million times, you know, um my goal is to pay

off my debt this year, and I've been doing a great job at that. And this is just kind of going to it's kind of

something in the middle of that. I'm going to take on a lot more expenses, a lot more stress. I'm going to be farther from work, the job that actually pays me good, and that I'm on track to make a hundred,000 a year for. Wow.

>> So, it's just it's a lot.

>> I know. Well, first of all, um you're a

good daughter.

And there might be some thoughts that enter your head that I'm not a good daughter. Maybe your mom, I'm not saying that she will, but she might throw some statements at you that make you feel that way. And I I want [clears throat] you to before you leave us to know that you're a good daughter and you are making really good decisions for you and your future. And you can't, Rachel, how many times have we taken calls with children and adult parents where you really aren't going to be able to fix >> mom's stuff.

>> Well, and and this what Deloney says all the time is, you know, when you put the boundary up, if the other person on the other end throws a fit and decides to, you know, from an extreme standpoint in the relationship or stopped, that's that was their call.

You're not wanting to >> break a level of relationship with your mom. You're just trying to set up your own life. Alyssa, how old are you?

I'm 23. >> Oh, you okay? You are young. Bless you.

You are young. >> Yeah. This is a great move. Oh, >> listen. >> This is going to be a pattern that you set for the for the rest of your life.

You know, >> I know you're sad right now, but I would rather you experience the sadness of this necessary ending than deal with

madness.

>> And this is setting up for that. And I don't mean just the angry feeling. I mean like some insanity of this revolving relationship between your mom and this guy and it's so co-mingled that I think the further you get away from this and set up financial and emotional

boundaries, woo, I think you're going to be great. I'm going to recommend a book by our dear friend Dr. Henry Clouds called Boundaries. Read it [music] and then follow that up with Necessary Endings. That's your one-two punch.

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>> [music]

>> right, [music] let's go to Tiffany next in Phoenix, Arizona. Tiffany, how can we help you today?

>> Hi. Hi, my name is Tiffany. I own two

properties that are um like none of them

are income producing. One I had perpetual problems with that cost me at least $1,000 in repairs and the other one has been vacant for over 6 months

and I just lost my job and I can't keep up with the payments and I don't know what to do. >> Okay, tell us about the properties.

Property one, let's call that one broken. The broken property, what what

is it? What kind of property is it and what do you think it's worth and what do you owe on it? Give us some numbers.

>> It's a duplex. Uh it it's it's worth probably around 320.

>> Mhm. >> And I owe about 260 on it.

>> Okay. And then let's call the second property the vacant property. Give me the numbers on that one.

>> Um it's a triplex and

I owe like 406 and

uh they say it's worth 500, but I don't think it's worth that much.

>> Who's they? A real estate agent told me that it was worth 300,000, but I don't think that's true either. >> Um, >> well, you just told us 400,000, then you changed it. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I wrote 500,000.

You You said >> uh that they said it's worth 500 and you

owe 406. Did I get that right?

>> That's correct. >> Okay. Okay. >> So, why did you throw 300 out? Where?

There's a big gap there. the the real estate agent that I spoke to said I need to he told me because it wasn't selling to drop it down to 300,000, but it's not worth that. It's worth more than that.

>> Okay. Well, then you need to interview several real estate agents.

>> Go ahead. >> That that's the that's the third real estate agent that I have um tried to get to sell the property. Have you tried any of the Ramsey Well, they're not Ramsey real estate agents that are connected to us and our in our uh >> Ramsey Trusted program. >> Ramsey, thank you. Ramsey Trusted program. Have you tried any of those?

>> No. >> Okay. Go to our website um in the Ramsey

Trusted and talk to some real estate agents. You don't you don't have to take those three opinions. And at this point, you've got some urgency. So, let's find somebody that really knows the market and that is really aggressive. The challenge that you've got is the duplex and the triplex. I mean, that's those are not, you know, your most favorable properties. And I'm guessing that you're probably in an area where real estate is slowed down. Is that true or false?

>> Well, the real estate agents I talked to say that it's good until they put on the market. So, [laughter] I presume >> I know. But see, here's the other thing. You've got to go get your own data, right? This is not hard to find. You got to get your own research in this thing.

And and by the way, this is readily available. Like you know your zip code, you can you can go pull this information from realtor.com, other reputable sources and let's just get a a knowledgeable some comps on these triplex and duplex. Uh but you definitely need to get rid of these.

>> Uh but what my hope is you don't >> Go ahead.

>> The comp I I have done that. The comps that I had for the vacant home was three uh was 480 and

then for the vac uh for the broken home

the comp was was at 320 that I mean I

checked on prop stream. I've done I've done the research. >> Great. Okay. Great. Great job. >> And how long have they been on the market for?

>> Well, they so the the vacant home I

pulled it from the market. It was on the market for about about a month or about two months. >> Okay. Um >> um but I pulled it just to see if I can get a renter because I can't keep up with these payments. And then the duplex. >> Okay. Let's look at your income really quick. >> Out on the market. >> Okay. So, let's >> I lost my job. >> I know. So, what was your income prior to losing your job?

>> Uh about 90,000.

>> What were you doing?

>> Uh work in marketing.

>> Okay. So, what happened? Laid off.

fired. What happened? >> No, I got I got fired for burnout and stressed out. >> And what was causing you stress?

>> My mortgages, >> right? Okay. Uh I think this is a both.

>> I've had I've had I've had evictions. I had three evictions last year. I still have one >> as being a landlord. You >> like you having to do it as a landlord?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

>> That's me. I've had to do turnovers. So, how much is the how much is each payment per month?

>> Uh, my duplex is 2,600 and the triplex

is 3,400.

>> M. Okay. So, yeah, that's six grand just

in those payments. How far behind are you? >> I'm not behind. >> You're not behind. Okay, that's good.

So, Tiffany, right now average days on market, and this is across the US, not in the Phoenix area specifically, is about 78 days. Okay. And we're about to go into a season of of real estate,

right? Everything kind of starts opening up after the winter and your your May,

your April. Um, all of these months

really start generating people that are looking to buy. Now, this looks like I

mean, I'm assuming you wouldn't be able to sell like the duplex and the triplex

as separate units. It has to be all probably within one unit. So, are you looking for like an investor? Would an investor be the type of buyer? Because it wouldn't be a single family like it's not a single family home, right?

>> No. Yeah, that's correct. It's not.

>> Okay. So, that that is going to make it more difficult because it's more of a niche um you know buyer that you're

looking for. But average day, so I would give yourself 90 days um to 120. like it

may have to go through the summer, but the problem is is if you start getting behind then yeah, I mean short a short sale may have to come into play if you can't get these off. >> Well, that's why we need to look at the money right now. So, the income. So, are you on a severance right now? How long have you have you been out of work?

>> Um, I just found out this week I have a month severance. >> You have a month severance. Okay. And if let me let me go back a and this is somewhat of an unfair question, but I think it's important. If if we had 30

days ago sold those tri those two let's call these properties. Okay. If we had sold those properties, do you think you would have gotten fired?

>> Probably. >> You do think you still would >> been going on for the This has been going on for about two years. >> Okay. And so the stress and I want you to be really honest because again we're protecting you here but we we need to be gut level honest. Is that the single source of you just simply you couldn't get the job done? You were almost a zombie because you were so stressed out. Is that what I'm understanding?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, I want to go back then. Had we not had the stress of these properties, do you think you would have been in a state that would have led to you getting fired? Yes or no?

>> Right. Repeat that again. >> Okay. If these properties didn't exist in your portfolio and you didn't have any of the stress, do you think you would have gotten fired? Let's go all the way back for two years this has been going on. would you have gotten fired?

>> No. >> Okay. My point is you aren't broken,

>> but you are burdened. And and that's what's going on. So, we got to remove these two burdens. And I'm going to tell you what I do. We have short time here, but I'm going tell you two things I think you got to do. Number one, I think you need to go get a really aggressive real estate agent and keep finding. But I would not rely on them.

>> I would Is there anybody that uh are there other d uh duplexes and triplexes around these properties? They're not single standouts, right?

>> No, that's correct. There are there are other ones in the >> I would be knocking on doors and finding who owns them and say, "I'm willing to make a deal." >> Yes. >> And the deal is up to the point that you don't have to pay anything, but you can get out of these things. I don't even care if you profit $1, but as long as you don't owe anything on these things anymore, and we remove these from your life.

It's like taking a giant millstone that's been hanging around your neck and you've been out there treading water and that is going to lift from you immediately. That would be step one. So, I would take it on myself to go cut a deal. Hey, I got these properties.

I screwed up. I'm stressed out. This is the bottom dollar that I'll take, but I'll take it today and I would go try to do the deal on your own while trying to get an agent. Now, we've got to move to income.

You are going to get free of these things.

on the horse. You've got to maybe go back to your current employer and say, "I'm going to fix this. I I I would take that stab. Give me one more shot." Maybe you don't have it, and I understand that may be unrealistic, but I'd put everything on the table. And you've got to get out there. If you're working from home, whatever it is, but 90,000 is not

going to be replaced by some odd jobs.

you're going to have to go back and get into marketing and get in as quick as you can or you're looking at four to five jobs.

That's your reality right now because you got one month before your world gets really, really bad. So, I hate that you're in this, but here's the good news. I believe in you. You can get out of this, but this is going to HAVE TO BE LIKE like everything you got to not get broken by this.

>> [music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

[clears throat] And they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

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call 8003564282.

[music]

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can do it for free in the App Store or Google Play. All right. Eric is up in Dayton, Ohio. Eric, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, how are you guys today? >> Great. How are you, sir?

>> Good, good. Hey, I uh looking for some advice on how to uh convince my wife um

that it's a smart idea to uh sell one

vehicle that we have paid off um that's worth about $32,000 um to pay off the other that we have um

and and not have any car payment.

>> And your wife is not on board with this?

>> She's not. So trying to sell her car?

>> Uh it is her car. My car is paid for.

It's a truck. 2020 Chevy Silverado.

>> Yeah. >> It's a hard That's a hard [laughter] uphill battle. >> It is. >> It's It's paid for.

>> Your Yours is a truck. And what does she drive? >> Yes. She drives a Durango.

>> And you want to sell her?

>> I thought you said you wanted to sell your truck.

>> Yes. I want to sell my truck and pay off her Durango. Let me keep her Durango.

>> And that's why I'm confused as to why she's not for this. Oh, I thought you were trying to sell her car. >> Well, well, she she she thinks basically

the difference of what my truck is worth compared to us paying her car off is about $8,800 to $10,000. So, she's

afraid my what I would like to do is take that $10,000 and go buy um pay cash

for a used car. Um, she is just afraid

of what comes with the maintenance and upkeep of buying a used vehicle. >> Got it. Okay, now I'm up to date. Okay, so this is all about vision casting, Eric, right? You got to cast vision. And you got to do it in a way where she goes, "Aha, because she's got some fear." Okay. And who among us, Eric, are

really clear thinking when we're afraid?

>> Yes. You would agree?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, nothing wrong with your wife.

She's got some fear and it's clouding her ability to see your plan. So, you have to come at it that way. All right.

So, this is the way I would come about it. What is the payment on her Durango every month?

>> Well, well, we're paying just shy of double payments on her Durango now. So, she her her her insight is, well, why

why do we need to make this drastic decision if we can just pay it off? How are >> you going to pay for it? And maybe she's right. But you got to answer my question. I'm going to walk you through. Maybe she's right. So, what are you guys paying? I know it's a double payment. What are you guys paying every month on the Durango?

>> It's 550. >> Okay. 550 bucks a month. >> What the payment is? >> All right. And if we continue to do the 550 double payment, when would the Durango be paid off?

>> In about two two just over two years.

>> Oh, >> okay. That's that's an that's more information. The way I would come about it is what what are you thinking?

Because you you made a funny scrunchy face and I [laughter] really want to go to you. I want to go to you immediately.

No, no, not it's not off the top of my head. It's just that is that's so long too long to be. Yes. Keeping >> all right. I just wanted to make sure. >> Cash the vision. >> So, here's what I would do. I would say, "Babe, we're paying 550 bucks a month." And at that rate, it's going to take us two years to pay this off. Okay. All right. So, you do the math on that and just play it out. Show her the numbers.

So, that's 24 months at 550 a month.

Multiply that >> a thousand because he said double payments still haven't paid off in two years. No, the >> Yes. >> I thought the double Okay, hold on. The double payment I thought was 550.

>> No, no, no. That's That's the single payment. >> No, that's the single payment.

>> Well, I asked for I think you asked for it. >> He didn't give it to me. I said, [laughter] "What's the double payment?" You said 550. >> Eric, I'm following you, Eric. >> But he didn't give me the numbers. So, it's a,000, actually. >> Yeah, they're putting away about $1,100.

>> They're actually paying $975 a month. >> But in all fairness, I did ask for that number. I said, "What are you paying?" It's okay, Eric. I was kid asked, "How

much is the payment?" And you gave the payment. >> You said double and I said, "What's the double payment?" Here's the deal. All right. So, now >> a thousand bucks. >> A,000 bucks >> for two years. >> For two years. You got to show her those numbers versus your plan.

>> I did. >> Well, I >> I actually made a spreadsheet. Look at you last night. >> But I made a spreadsheet.

>> My anticipation was to have we would pay this car off right now. >> So, let's just get to her fear. Her fear is, >> but I'm going to address it. Here's the deal. I'm trying so hard to get here.

You got to show her that the thousand bucks a month that we're paying is easily going to cover any kind of mechanical issues that she's worried about. Oh, I know. KEN'S NOT A VILLAGE IDIOT after all. I got you.

>> I feel like I'm talking about teenagers between you two. Oh, Ken. I mean, no.

The vision casting is you're afraid that

we're going to have mechanical problems.

So then you tell her, "I'm going to buy for 10,000 a Toyota or a Honda or something or x amount of miles and I can do research and show her that the average mechanical cost on a car like this is whatever." >> Yes. >> And between our emergency fund and the savings of a almost a,000 bucks a month,

we would be able to cover the mechanical. And now we're out of debt.

Eric, that's what you have to do. >> Have you Have you shown her any used cars for $10,000?

I I haven't really I've seen a couple that are locally like what was that $8,800 that's like a a toy or Camry and

>> so I think that's I think that's always a shocking thing for people hear used car and if if I'm her and she's just like that just means it's a beater it's going to be crappy we're going to have to deal with maintenance all the time you know what I mean like that's kind of the stereotype but when you actually go and look at used cars they're fine

really I mean there's some there's some that are rough that you're like, "Okay, that's probably not going to be great." But you go get a mechanic to look at it.

You make sure there's no big issues going on. And I'm telling you, yes. And I and I think for her, that's where the Ken's vision casting can come in is her actually go car shopping and see what you what you're talking about. Oh, look at this. Ken's pulling it up now. >> That's what I do. That's what I do, folks. >> Look at you, Ken. Look, a GMC Acadia.

>> We got a a 2016 GMC Acadia for 8,900.

Only 120,000 miles. GMC's aren't expensive to fix. They got all the parts. Uh let me give you a there's a >> Oh my gosh. How about a a 2015 Subaru?

These things run forever. Uh and let's do one more just for fun. Oh, here we go. Uh let's go the 2016 Honda Civic.

182,000 mi. Yes. But that car is barely getting started. It looks great. The paint's nice. They're asking $8,900 for it. You walk in there with $7,500 in

$100 bills and you walk out of that.

That's just a quick quick search. So

again, >> I know it took us a while to get there.

>> It was painful, but we got to show her no more spreadsheets. Just here's the deal. We just free up $1,000 a month in our budget. We can easily cover and this is for a short term >> and we save up Rachel.

>> Yes. >> For the next $20,000 cash car. Mhm.

[clears throat] >> Well, I even I even I even tried to show her that taking this uh what what a payment of 5.57 plus what we're paying

and putting it to the house after this this car is paid for. Uh we would pay we

would then pay our house off in within the next 5 years after that.

>> Oh my gosh. >> And she didn't go for that. >> So is really her fear go for that.

>> Is her real fear just a used car? Is that what she is scared of for real? just that just the just keeping up the maintenance. She doesn't think we're She asked me. She said, "Do we do you really think we're in that bad a shape?" We're not at all in that bad of shape.

>> No, but it's just the level of intensity you want out.

>> Yeah. Let me ask you a question. That's what I That's how I would go about it though, Eric, of what it's doing to you.

It's stressing you out. You hate this.

>> And so to her, she may not feel the pain as much. She's like, "Is it really that big of a deal? Oh my gosh, Eric, you're being so dramatic." All of this. You need to Yeah. You need to verbalize exactly what you're feeling and what you're thinking and and and and it's almost this like, hey, this would be a gift to me and my sanity and my peace like, you know what I mean? It's more of that for you because she's not rattled by this, which is fair. She can pay.

>> She does she does none of our finances.

>> So then that's part of the [laughter] problem. >> Crazy question. Actually, Eric, this is for you and Rachel. >> Okay. Eric, apparently it's you and I against >> Well, it sounded like it earlier until America realized where I was going. All right. F serious question in this case.

Is it okay for your marriage to just do

it? I don't think you're going and buying anything. You're selling your car. I think you go, "We're at an impass, but babe, I'm going to do it anyway. What say you?" >> Does that bother you? >> That's a That's a Yeah, that's [music] a terrible idea, and I would not do that.

She would She would kill me. >> She'd freak out. Okay. She then don't do it. Okay. So, hey, listen. She's got to come to the table. You guys need to be doing a budget together every month. Like, y'all are you're running on two separate tracks and and you're by yourself in this. You're isolated [music] and stressed. And that's the core issue here for you. And that's what she needs to hear is that her husband is not [music] at peace. >> Take her to see a $10,000 car. Take her

to see it. Test drive it. Take her along. [music] I think that's your shot.

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Welcome back [music] to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

I'm Ken Coleman alongside Rachel Cruz.

Excited to be with you all. 88 8255

5225 is the number. Nate is up in Colorado. Nate, how can we help?

Hey guys, I'm just calling cuz I not

really sure how to move forward. Um had

a very serious health situation and

depleted all of our savings. Um and uh

I'm not sure how to move. I've got four kids and a wife. I'm not sure how to move forward. >> Oh my gosh. What happened? getting out of debt and everything. Um,

long story short, I was in the army for a long time, >> okay? >> And, um, doctors were trying to help me recover from long long-term injuries and, um,

too many doctors got involved and I ended up on 19 different medications for multiple years. >> Oh my gosh. >> And it was just killing my liver. Um, >> I had the heart attacks and it was really bad. And um

technically I'm not even supposed to be here. We were literally planning my funeral. Um >> Oh my gosh. >> And now I'm here and I don't know what to do. >> Yeah. >> Well, what when when we say here? Um

what where does that put you physically?

Are you able to work? Are you on disability? How you know we got to walk through kind of your realities. Let's start with those two questions.

So, I worked through the, you know, I was supposed to be in the hospital, but I I worked through it all.

>> Wow. >> Through God's help, I was able to maintain myself enough to work. Um, >> do you still have that? Do you still have that income?

>> Yes, sir. I still work. I make um just over $100,000 a year.

>> Okay, great. And you and you foresee,

God willing, health allowing, continuing

to make that money, correct?

>> Yes, sir. The the damage is permanent.

There's no fixing it. Um >> Okay. >> You know, you can prevent further damage, but um what what's done is done basically. >> Do you have any [clears throat] other income that's coming in from your military service or anything like that?

>> That's part of the income. Yes, that's part of the total income I gave you.

>> Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Is there and one last question here and we'll start walking through the debt.

>> Uh do you have opportunities where you are or potentially in the same industry to get a raise to where that number goes above 100,000?

>> Um I I believe so. I mean I I mean technically yes. You know that depends a lot on the company you work for. Um, >> I understand.

But the reason I'm asking that needs to be a part of this strategy >> in in other words, you don't have to answer that question on the call, >> but your homework assignment is, "What can I do to increase my income?" >> That I'm going to school currently full-time and working full-time >> for what? >> Um, to try to finish my degree so that I can get out of trucking and and do accounting. >> Okay. Okay.

Okay. So, you want to move into accounting.

>> I will graduate next uh next May. Not

this May, but next year. It's 2027 May.

>> All right. How much is that costing you?

Or is it covered? >> It's free from the VA. I get I in fact I actually get paid to go to school. >> Perfect. Okay. Great. All right. I want to bring Rachel in here and let's talk about the real debt.

>> Yeah. So, how much debt do you guys have?

>> So, um my wife is two months away from

being debtree. Um, we have two credit cards left that total. One credit card is $9,487.

>> Okay. >> And the other credit card is uh $4,619.

>> Okay. >> Um, and actually tomorrow morning that credit card will the the smaller one will be paid off. >> The 4,000 >> and then uh Yes, ma'am.

>> Oh my gosh. Amazing.

And then April 1st, um I'm sorry,

between April 1st and May 1st, we will finish off the 9,000. >> Okay. Amazing. Now, why did you say my wife is almost debtree? What do What do you mean by that?

>> Well, when I got sick, I was actually running my own trucking company.

>> Okay.

>> I'm I'm sorry. >> No, you're fine.

>> I was doing really well.

>> Yeah.

And um

um to keep our family afloat, I I just kind of went into uh survival mode and I

just said, "Okay, well, if I die, I don't want my wife's credit to get destroyed." So, I just focused on making sure the rent was paid and and her bills

got paid, but my credit obviously I I couldn't I couldn't make anything. We I mean, we were >> Okay. Yep. >> barely living. Um, >> okay. I hear you. >> And so I I was able to salvage hers, but my credit is just destroyed.

>> Okay, that's okay. Yeah, we're not I'm not worried about that right now. So, is the are the two credit cards are those under her name or yours?

>> Yes, ma'am. They're under her name.

>> They're hers. Okay. So, is that all the debt that's in her name?

>> Yes, ma'am. That's correct. >> Okay. Wonderful. And then what debt do you have?

>> Um, I It's not an overwhelming amount.

It's just a lot of small credit cards that have been in default for like [clears throat] two years. >> Oh, that's great. Are they in collections?

>> Yes. Yes. Yes, ma'am. I'm sure they are.

I just Nobody's contacted me about it. I just thought it was weird. >> Okay. So, what I'm not like getting phone calls. It's just >> Yep. Okay. [clears throat] So, in a way, it's kind of a good thing because when they hit collections, you can negotiate and, you know, get out of them. So, so total, you said it's a bunch of little ones. So, probably a total of what? Five grand, 10 grand or what are we talking?

It's It's just under 14,000. Right now, it sits at 13,913.

>> Okay. And they're all defaulted and probably all in collections. All 14,000.

Yes, ma'am. Every single one of them. >> Okay. So, so here's what I would do. I would pull your credit report and see the last company that held that debt and try to contact them and try to get any um real time of of what who owns these

debts because they're probably sold off.

So, it'll it's kind of like a it's going to be a part-time job for you to kind of like go through the spiderweb of it all, >> but where you can get that. And then in the meantime, after you guys pay off her there, I'm going to say I'm going to say your both of you cuz we'll we'll talk in the [laughter] in those terms. [gasps] Once once the $9,000 credit card is paid off in April, then I would save because you guys are amazing at what you're doing. and the fact you guys are snowballing this so fast.

I would save, you know, 56,000 as quickly as possible and then contact the collections and see what you can negotiate cuz I bet they'll take half or even less than half of that 15,000. Okay. So, I want you guys to do that.

>> No, ma'am. >> No. Okay. Um, yeah. Nate, can I just

tell you >> overwhelming? It was just terrifying trying to think. >> Oh, I can't imagine trying to stay alive. And and by the way, you're a hero. >> I'm having a hard time. Yeah, I'm I'm having a hard time finding life insurance. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, you Yeah, you might.

>> I've got $100,000 policy. We just had a

>> baby girl that was not planned.

>> Yeah. >> It's just uh I'm just uh

>> You're a good man. Hey, you're a good man. >> Really hard to take [clears throat] care of my family. >> You're doing Listen, you're doing a great job. >> You're doing so well. the fact that you guys are going to pay this debt off in the next two months.

>> Uh and Rachel just gave you a step-by-step plan. Don't stress about that collection stuff. That is secondary. You're going to be okay. Uh

you just keep showing up for your family the way you have. You're a good man who's been through so much. By the way, you served our country >> and and and you sacrificed so much.

You're a great American, too. And we appreciate you. you're going to be fine.

You're doing a great job, you guys. The next step is get that emergency fund in place, right? And then begin the investing and I believe it's all going to work out. You just one day at a time.

>> Hold on the the line, Nate. We're going to [music] pick up during the break cuz I do want to mention something about when you mentioned life insurance. I do want to talk to you about that. We can talk off air, but but hang on. But yeah, doing incredible, Nate.

>> [music]

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[music]

>> [music]

>> Brian is up in Denver, Colorado. Brian, how can we help?

>> Hey, nice to be with you both. [music] >> Thank you. What's going on?

>> So, my grandfather passed away.

>> Oh, I'm so sorry about that.

>> Yeah. Hey, 96 years old, he crashed.

>> Oh, that's a that's a great life.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He he did a lot in his life and uh I inherited some stuff from him that I wanted to talk to you about. >> Okay. >> Um including a giant Alaskan salmon that he caught in 1986 that somehow got left in the will for me. So I'm trying to figure out what to do with that. Why I'm calling you guys >> like on the wall or like is it still in the freezer from >> So, so he it came with a plaque and and

he named the salmon big hog and now I

have my grandfather's big hog and I don't know what it right now.

>> I'm so excited. Let's go ahead and get this one out of the way. This is the least important of the question, but we'll see you. What do you do with it?

You hang it in a place of honor.

>> This is your grandfather's prize fish.

He went so far as to name it. Uh I would think patio covered patio would be a great spot. Uh if you've got a man kind of a man's room in the house, great spot. I mean, it's a story to tell and it honors your grandfather every time you tell the story.

And I would come up with a good story. If you don't have a >> embellish [laughter] listen, I I whipped out the tape measure and found a perfectly suitable place in the living room, but my wife >> for reasons I'll never understand the idea. >> Well, you haven't been married long enough. I have.

I get it. Notice I didn't mention the living room. That wasn't [laughter] on my I know better than that. But, uh, whatever your manland is in your house, that's where it goes.

Great story. And and as Rachel said, create a good fish story.

Like he almost lost his arm or something like like let's get some drama in it and then he was okay and he got the fish reeled it in. Took him an hour and a half. I don't know. Something special.

>> Sounds great story. But anyway, >> this is the type this is the type of advice people need to call into their show for. >> I agree. We can do more than just money.

>> By the way, I got more where that came from. >> We changed the lives in so many ways.

>> All right. So now serious stuff.

>> How can we help you?

>> Yes. So, I found out through his passing

um and I'm I'll say this once, very grateful, very blessed um to be in the situation uh that through the course of three different kind of life events in the future, I'll be inheriting a total

essentially of 3.5 million from him.

>> Wow. >> Wow.

>> Yes. >> How many grandkids are there?

>> There's four of us. And it's interesting that you asked that question because one of them is through a $10 million um

generation skipping trust that some of his commercial real estate assets is in totaling about 10 million. So >> generation skipping your parents didn't get >> correct. My parents now get all of the

income for as long as they're alive from those properties. >> Okay. but they're passed along to us ownership-wise in the trust once um his

children have passed along. So that's way down the line. >> Wow. Okay. Oh my gosh.

>> The other element is that he's leaving me $100,000 now. I will receive at some

point within two years of his passing, which will be two Mays from now.

>> Okay. >> So I don't know when that would be coming. It could come today. It could come in a year and four months.

>> Mhm. Um, and then the other element of it is that when my grandmother passes his wife, I'll be receiving a $1 million municipal bond that pays out a lousy 2%.

[laughter] But I'll be getting that when my grandmother dies that um they worked

out through their estate that she gets once he passed and then I'll get that once she passed. She's 90 and I hope she lives 30 more years. Um, but that's the that's the third element of it. So, the reason I'm calling you is I didn't anticipate any of this. And since 2020,

I've been building up my own brokerage account with stocks and ETFs. And that account now has 155,000 in it. And my

plan was to never touch it ever. Just just keep it growing. Um, however,

now that I kind of have these other things coming in the future, my question for you is, is it okay or is it still

stupid to be able to pull out money from that brokerage account to pay for

some some some home improvement projects

that straddle the line between want and need. Um, if we have a second kid down the line in a couple years, we could really use another bedroom. And so for me, and we're doing home construction work here coming up soon, so it would be ideal to get it all done in one flu

>> while it's happening as opposed to having to move out a couple times.

>> Um, so is it is it okay for me to pull

4050 out of that now, pay another 10K in capital gains taxes next year? Um, given

I know what's coming to me or is that still >> Yeah. No, I think that's fine. I would say you could do you could pull 40 or 50 out of 150 in a brokerage account anyways regardless of the inheritance. I mean that's that's cash for you all to use now or later or like you said never

touch it. I mean yeah you you get to make that decision. The whole idea of just never touching that account was something that you that that was a role you put on that money. Um no one you know forced that. So, I would say I would I would be a little bit more flexible with it. And and I'm assuming you guys don't have any debt and have an emergency fund in place and everything.

Correct. >> Yeah. About $40,000 emergency fund. The only debt is our mortgage. 4,000 a month. $500,000 left on the line.

>> What kind of retirement savings do you have at this point? I know you're a young man, but I'm just curious what your 15% is looking like and babysit 4.

>> Uh, yeah. It's it's it's

I don't know, normal. I'm I'm 36 years

old. I worked professionally for the first half of my professional life, not making much money, so there wasn't much there. >> Sure. >> Um but over the past 5 years, I've had a a pretty good job and have been Okay.

>> contributing 4% to it for the last 5 years. >> Okay, >> that's great. Yeah. So, I would um Are you just doing 4%? Is that the match?

>> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. Yeah. So, I would I would be investing 15%. Um so, I would be upping your retirement. I would totally use some of this money. um in this account and then that will be replenished with the hundred grand cash that's coming to you in the next year. Now the the rest

the bond I understand that um but the

the other big chunk the 2.5 that's in that is in real estate. Correct. That's not >> Yeah. So that's that's the current valuation of what is commercial real estate properties in Los Angeles.

>> Perfect. Okay. Wonderful. Um so yep that's um that's exactly what I would do. Brian, I know that's um what a what a beautiful legacy >> that your grandfather just >> love that guy >> built up, passed down generationally and

still has grandkids intact, right? Like Brian, like you know, you've stayed out of debt and built up your own emergency fund, your own brokerage, like you're you're doing it. And then that's the beautiful thing is that when money magnifies and when money magnifies great

habits and stewarding money, well, like that's a that's a wonderful thing. This money is not going to ruin you. it's actually going to continue. You're going to pass that down generationally through your kids and so on. So, um, wow, that's

amazing. Absolutely amazing. So, yeah.

Um, I would use part of the 150 to cash flow some home renovations. And it's okay if it's a want. That's totally fine. You guys have the cash for it. You're in a position to do it. And then when that $1 million bond comes, when your grandmother does pass, yes, I would probably um, yeah, cash that out and

invest that. And that $1 million sitting in a brokerage account long term is gonna be a beautiful thing, too. That's in the future, which is awesome. >> That's huge.

And that's gonna fast forward your retirement savings. And obviously, if you continue to be as smart as you've been. >> Yeah. Don't slow down your stuff.

>> You guys are in great shape, but act like none of it's coming is the idea here. And uh >> and you got a big decision to make. We got to find out where we're going to put that salmon. I think America wants to know, by the way, how big of a fish is it?

>> Yeah. Well, the [laughter] the weight uh

Thank you. First of all, thank you for all that. I appreciate it. The weight of Big Hog is listed on the plaque. Uh I don't know much about salmon. I asked my friend who's a big salmon fisherman. He told me if it's 25 lbs, that's a huge salmon. The weight of this salmon says 73 lb. It's huge.

>> Oh. And what's the size? Do how what is it end to end? Do you have any idea?

>> Oh gosh, I haven't measured it. Um >> what would you guess? Big enough to struggle to get through the door frame.

I can tell you that. >> Oh, so so basically a yard stick at least a yard stick wide if you know what a yard stick is. Okay. >> Yes. >> Holy smokes.

>> Kids more excited about that fish when you walk in the house. >> Well, you know, listen, I've heard people talk about millions all the time.

When was the last time you heard anybody talk about a 70 lb plus salmon? That's pretty special. >> Yeah. Not like a tuna. [music] A salmon.

>> A salmon. >> And the And and they're not salt water, right? Salmon are fresh water. So that's in a river somewhere in Alaska.

[laughter] >> That could hit me. >> Where did he catch it? Tell us real quick. Where did he catch it?

>> Yep. Alaska. >> Oh, there it is. Unbelievable. You know, and what's funny is there was a giant bear that had been stalking that thing.

Big hog. Bear came looking [laughter] for him. He's no longer there. Where is he? Grandpa got him.

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>> Col Columbus Columbus.

Oh, I'm sorry. Couldn't hear myself in my ears, everybody. I'm not having a uh, you know, attack of some kind. The cord got pulled out. I was like, "Yeah, uh, hey, I can't hear myself." Uh, the wire shorting out. That's what's happening.

So, that's uh let me see if I can manually adjust that. Okay, there we go, folks. All right, it's live, folks. You got to keep pressing through. Joseph is up in Columbus, Georgia, and I can hear myself and hopefully I can hear you, Joseph. How's it going?

>> All is well here in Columbus. Just had a couple of questions for you. >> Okay, go for it. >> Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Yes. Uh I am married 67. My wife is 68

>> and we both are retired and we both

enjoy traveling her a lot more than me.

>> But [snorts and laughter] uh >> we got a question about getting a credit card for using those uh lounges, the sky

lounge and all those things. The Centurion Lounge. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I got a question about getting a credit card for those purposes.

>> You don't want to sit among the people. You you you want that private experience, huh?

Well, I uh at first my wife wanted it,

but then when I experienced it, I thought it was pretty good as well. And so, yeah, I don't I don't carry any

credit card debt. >> Uhhuh. >> But I wondered I know I did the Dave Ramsey program back in 2011 and uh she

did it a year before me and we both have

been debtree since that time. and uh

just wanted to get your opinion on whether you think that's a wise idea to try to get a credit card for that purpose. >> Yeah. So the way I would look at it is,

you know, choosing to do that. On one hand, you know, some people it's like it's just not a big deal. You pay it off every month. You get the the privilege of being in the airport lounges and whatever. And then on the other end of the spectrum, it is kind of saying, "Hey, I'm going to shift my philosophy around how I do money and I'm going to

choose now to spend on a card that I'm going to have to pay off every month." And what we have found data wise is that

you do end up spending more when you spend with a credit card. And so there is something to be said of, hey, I'm going to shift my financial philosophy for an hour once a month in a lounge. And so to me,

not worth it. They're nice. I've been in them before with friends and yeah, they're fine, but they're also just fine. You know, I could sit at a airport restaurant and get a glass of wine and a dinner and call it a day, you know. >> Well, you know, you are a woman of the people. Do you like to be out there among the folks?

>> No, but I Yeah. So, to me, Joseph, it's it it is shifting into an industry that I just have a lot of disgust for. I just

don't like the credit card industry. I don't like playing their game. I don't like the fact that a lot of miles and

cash back and everything, the way they make their money is off of people who can't pay their bills and end up, you know, having to pay interest and all of it. just a I just don't like the game and so I choose not to play it.

>> Uh honest question, Joseph and because it's it's been a while since I've uh done any of the lounges, right? I don't even But isn't that a function of how many miles air miles you have? You don't have to have the credit card to have access to those. Do you or do you?

>> Some of them you do. >> Some of them if it's named by the credit card. I've seen those. But if it's >> like a Delta lounge, >> that's what I'm saying. that you can accumulate if you're flying Delta and you're near uh obviously the the the world headquarters. So, I would you don't have to have a credit card to experience that. Certainly, if you're flying Delta, I would look into it, but that's just a function of you're you're you're stacking up miles and then you get privileges.

>> Okay. All right. Yeah. >> Well, that sounds good. I appreciate your your insight on that. Thank you.

Thanks for calling. Have fun traveling.

>> Oh, I love that. Uh Sarah's up in Las Vegas. Sarah, how can we help?

Yeah, my question is um my husband has a potential job promotion opportunity within the next few months. Along with that is a requirement that we have a

5-year-old or newer four-door vehicle

that we have to supply, which we don't have right now. And the only way for us to get that would be to use our almost fully funded emergency fund. So the

question is, do we forgo the promotion

completely because we can't do that? We can't provide the vehicle >> or do we use our emergency fund and get the vehicle if we get the promotion?

>> How much more will the promotion be?

>> Well, it's base plus commission. So I I don't really know, >> but your boss is hopeful and optimistic that it could be up as much as double.

>> Explain to me um why the four-door vehicle that's required for this.

>> Oh, he because the job would be an outside salesperson and he would likely need to use the vehicle to transport

things to job sites or whatever. It's just a requirement for the company.

>> Okay, got it. >> And do you guys have a current car you could sell and put some cash towards it?

We do, but it's not it's it's already a

really old beat up car. It wouldn't be a significant contribution, but we could.

>> Yeah. Because um if it has to be a 5-year or newer, if you went on the 5year, how much money are we talking?

Are you seeing that you're like, "Okay, this is how how much we'd have to spend on this car." um the research that he's done so far, he's found things in the 13 to 15 range, >> but I it would be nice to go up as much as 20, but that's that's more than half of our >> fund.

I just want to look at this from every angle possible here. So, when when would he have to take this job or when would he start? In other words, actually, the better question is when would you have to have the car if he takes this?

that we I mean that's not a hard and

fast deadline. We don't really know. The

job could start as much as soon as two months from now. The vehicle requirement

could maybe be fudged through the end of the year, but we don't know.

>> Oh, okay. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, when can we know that answer?

>> I don't know. A >> lot of it I don't know. I appreciate the I don't know, but but I'll tell you what I would be doing if I was in your shoes.

I would be getting the answer to that question. >> They they've offered him the job >> that question, but I haven't received the answer myself. >> Well, who'd you ask it of?

>> My husband when he was telling me about this in the first place. >> What? Hubs needs to get these answers.

Here's why. It already sounds as though we have a gap here to where I love how

you used fudge, right? But if they're going to give you a little bit of leeway, you can't be the only people that have ever been in this situation before. >> It's where they don't give you any allowance. >> I guess let's just assume it's end of the year. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Could you guys I got to believe you guys could scrape together 13 to $15,000 between now and >> thousand bucks a month. >> Yes or no?

>> No. We Well, actually, [snorts] maybe.

>> What if you sold some stuff? If Rachel and I came over and we're around your house looking around, what could we yard sell? And could we could we sell enough stuff to make $25? >> Even if the car is $3,000, you know, that's 3,000 out of the 13. You know, the other car, right? >> It's my point. What here's here's the exercise, okay? What you and your husband need to sit down tonight and go, what do we need to do to come up with 13 to $15,000?

And the other thing is he needs to start giving you some answers on how much time he has because if he can double his income >> and it requires us to sacrifice and scrape and sell and go do extra jobs

between now and then. I would absolutely do it. >> Yeah. But I wouldn't consider this an emergency Sarah because you guys have Yeah.

So I would have a really >> I don't either. That's why I'm I'm in this place like >> I would have a hard time because now if it was in the next 30 days and you're and it's guaranteed I'd probably pull some money out to get this done. But you guys have to the end of the year. So you have plenty of leeway and runway to be able to save and pay for this car.

Now if you got to take a thousand bucks out of the emergency fund to to round it out >> to double my income.

>> Yep. Exactly. >> I think there's some flexibility within the spirit of >> push hard to say I I don't want to touch that emergency fund. Um, and what you guys could do. Do you guys have debt at all, Sarah?

>> Just our mortgage. >> Okay, good for you guys. That's awesome.

Yeah. So, I mean, I would see this as a Yep. as a sacrifice.

>> I think it'd be a fun adventure to go, how can we >> We need $1,000 a month. How do we get >> Yeah. How do we do that? How do we generate that? I actually think that's fun. I think it's worth doing. I I would I would talk to Hubs about that tonight.

And uh I think in the counter offer, by the way, Rachel, go, "Hey, listen. I want this and I could do this. You got to give me just a little bit of leeway.

Here's my plan. And here's what I'm doing. And I think if they want him, sounds like they do, they can play [music] ball with you. >> But it sounds like a good deal. I would buy a $13,000 car to Double Man.

>> Did Double Man come? Sure I would.

>> Yep.

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Brandon is up in Salt Lake City.

Brandon, how can we help?

>> Hi. Well, I just want to start by saying thank you for taking my call. uh you put out such amazing content and uh this form lets you know it's appreciated. >> Thank you.

>> Yeah. So, I have a pretty complex question uh but I'll keep it simple and then you guys can ask questions I think and I'll fill in whatever you need. But ultimately my question is uh you know I and my wife are both physicians and we're uh pretty financially sound. Um and my father is not. He uh has a pretty

well-paying job, but still lives paycheck to paycheck and actually got into some trouble this last year and had to borrow money from me. Um he's actually collecting social security now.

He's in his 70s and he has no ability to retire whatsoever and still has quite a lot of debt. And I'm imagining inheriting these troubles very soon. And I'm just kind of curious how you guys would recommend I would go about kind of

>> Well, let's address the future. Let's address what you mean by inheriting his troubles.

>> What are you going to inherit? >> Well, I I think you know ultimately I think either health is going to catch up to him or he he's kind of made some morally ambiguous decisions and I'm worried that some like the you know the what's phrase eggs are going to come home to roost or whatever. >> Well, his debt his debt is his debt. So So whatever he's done there from a debt standpoint that's not coming to you >> now. >> Yeah. In terms of like just taking care of him though and like in terms

I understand that. >> Yeah. >> Are you married, Brandon?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My wife and I are we're both physicians. We both we make a decent amount of money. >> Okay. Yeah. How much do you guys make a year? >> So, I'm in my final year of training now. Um next year together, uh about

500,000 a year is what we're together.

>> That's great. Um, oh, this is always a

hard one because, >> you know, on one end of the spectrum it's, you know, some people put up pretty tough boundaries and they're just like, I'm sorry. You know, your decisions are your decisions and I'm not going to, you know, have to be responsible for those. And then on the other end, it's like, we're not going to let our parents, you know, be homeless.

You know what I mean? Like, like like there is a >> there is a um >> a balance in all of this. So, what I would probably do is you and your wife need to sit down and run worst case scenario and I would um and and then I would kind

of play out, hey, what what would this look like? How far would we go? And then also put up some boundaries, Brandon, I don't like that he's borrowing money from you. I think that either needs to be a gift because it's probably never going to be repaid, right?

I mean >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that that's that it was a gift. I I have no age.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Yep.

not going to give you any more money or dad, I will help pay your mortgage for six months and that's it. Or, you know, whatever it looks like. But those are those are boundaries, I think, in a plan that you and your wife kind of come together and decide, hey, you know, are we what what are we willing to take on?

Um >> because you're right. I'm like, if he has no retirement and if if something happens to him healthwise, he's not going to be able to work. So, he's going to have no income coming in. Um, >> what would what's his social security payment every month?

>> Oh, man. I don't know. Um, I I don't

know what that is. It's like a >> the reason is is >> I think it's it's it's it's a dicey situation. He's also a very private person and >> for me to like become invest in his finances and I understand that can be like a stipulation if he needs help in the future that I have to be able to be invited into his financial life. But to do that right now, I think it would he would blow up.

>> Great. So here's the deal. You know what happened to get you guys like a Oh, go for it.

He's super private. He'd blow up or get angry if you if you weighed in. So, you know what you and your wife do? Exactly what Rachel said, and that's it.

Don't do anything else. Say, "If there's no one else to take care of him, we will." And at that moment, you can do the best you can to guess what his social security is, but you go, "Okay, he's going to get that until he dies." >> Yeah. >> And that would be the only income he has. We can't assume that he has long-term care insurance.

We can't assume that he has We know he has no invest. We know that.

You guys are doctors, so you also know the data. If he had to go to assisted living, you know what is the average amount of time someone lives in that setting. I mean, you can do some homework and go, "Okay, well, absolute worst case scenario, this is what dad's situation is going to be." And uh, you

know, if no one else can help pick up the bill, then that's something we got to plan for. And I think you can, it's almost like a, it's almost like planning for your kids's college here. You may have to, you know, invest some money.

>> Where's your Where's your mom, Brandon?

>> Uh, like not No, they're not together.

>> Oh, they're Okay. They're divorced. Okay. Do you have other siblings? >> No. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I do. But they My other siblings are not uh capable of assisting financially. >> Okay. >> Unfortunately. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What kind of debt do you guys have?

>> Me and my wife. >> Yeah.

So, we uh don't own our home, but are planning on buying a home next year, but we're currently we have uh student loan debt, but our savings and retirement uh are greater than our any debt we have.

We have no credit card debt. We have no car payment. Both our >> car walk us through that. What's your what's your medical I mean not medical uh medical school student loan. Thank you. Student loan debt. What is that? >> There you go. >> Yeah. So, 300 300,000 for the both of us. >> Okay. And then what do you have in savings?

So we have about 120 in savings. Okay.

>> And about 250 in 401ks.

>> Great. So yeah, I wouldn't touch the 401k, but obviously doing the Ramsay

plan is to pay off that student loan debt. So half of it is in savings and then what you guys you'll make 500,000 so you could pay it off in 6 months, you know. So making sure that you get all that taken care of, of course, >> before you try to take care of dad.

>> Yep. Yeah. So making sure that you guys are in a good spot, which I think you will be pretty quickly if you do that stuff. um and rebuild your emergency fund. >> Um but yeah, this is always Yeah.

>> Can I ask how when he like if you know

uh like the debtors come to collect and he can no longer afford his apartment, if I end up paying for an apartment for him, does that does his debt and the

apartment that he lives or the car he drives that all goes away? But whatever I provide for him is not a part of that equation.

>> Yeah. If it's in his name, then it has nothing to do with you. Debts, leases,

all of it. >> Yeah. But you could furnish an apartment under your name, I'm assuming. However, the apartment complex does that.

>> Um, so yeah. So like that, >> but it's not really an asset cuz he'd be renting, but >> they couldn't come after him in any way with that cuz it would be under your name. Yeah, >> that's right. >> Okay. Yeah, I guess that was kind of my fear that Yeah. his deaths would make would make it prohibitively difficult for me to take care of him and I hear what you're saying. Yeah. >> Kind of independent. >> Does he own a home?

>> No, no, no, no. He No. He um and just to get like a scope into this, he actually uh tried to go back to school in the 70s and took out student loans to do that and then ended up not going to school and just using that money to buy a car.

>> Stop it. Oh my god. How much debt do you think he has?

>> Oh man. I if if he told me $500,000, I

wouldn't be surprised. If he told me $10,000, I would be surprised. [snorts] >> Jeez.

>> Yeah. Well, it um >> Sorry, you're sorry you're carrying this burden. >> It's terrible, Brandon.

>> Yeah. >> But I would tell you this. I want and and [laughter] I say that, but I want to quickly say, make sure you understand what you're supposed to carry and what you're not. >> Okay.

>> You're the only sibling that's going to be able to take care of him. That's a burden. >> But you do not have to worry about his debt. you don't have to worry about his mistakes.

You understand what I'm saying? Like once you know all that stuff will be written off. He didn't have a, >> you know, a pot to pee in is the old phrase. And so none of that's going to come back on you.

So you only have to carry the burden of taking care of dad when he can no longer take care of himself. And that's the medically. And so you can plan for it, but clean up your house first because you don't want that to be a stressor.

It's already going to be a >> I know >> potentially resentful burden, but you know, >> and I want you and your wife on the same page, too. I don't want that to be an >> issue. Yeah. Yeah. We're we're both very familycentric and she's like, "Hey, whatever we need to do, you know, I trust you and we're we're definitely if

it does come to the point, and you probably know this, that of you having to help financially, always give in

terms of an actual item, meaning like >> uh don't give them cash, right? that you if you end up paying the rent, you pay the rent and the utilities.

>> Um [music] get a gift card to the to the

grocery store and it's like you get a hundred bucks or you know whatever it is. [music] Um as much as Yeah. Not not

handing over cash cuz he obviously doesn't know how to [clears throat and music] how to handle that. So Brandon, you're you're a good son and a good and a good husband. Um so

yeah, we're we're we're with [music] you guys.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited that you are with us. 888255225

is the phone number. Eileene is up next.

Eileen, how can we help? Hi. Um, I'm

calling about uh a trust that my husband's family has. Um, and when we

always thought when he passed or if he passed before me that I would be the one that would inherit his share and we have found out that it would go past me and to my daughter. and we're just wondering if it would be ethical for us to ask her to split the inheritance if if by any um

if he predesases me.

>> So it hasn't just to make sure it hasn't happened yet. He has not passed.

>> No, he is still here and we were just we're in our communities now. We're trying to figure out what to do. >> But his wishes are for it to go to the grandkids.

>> Uh well, it [sighs] it was set up, you

know, 80 years ago. It was the the people that are the primaries of the trust are the grandchildren and my husband would be a great grandchild and it goes through the family name.

>> Oh, so it's beyond even

your husband's parents. It went a generation above them. >> Yes, it's generations. Yes.

>> So he can't change it. Correct.

>> He cannot change it. It would it would just It is [clears throat] >> Has it always skipped a generation? Is that part of it? It doesn't it doesn't skip. It just follows the family name.

So, he gets a trust check um as does everybody else in that that generation of the family every quarter. But it's

and the um the generation that currently

is on those trusts when they pass it ends and the money would be distributed.

>> Right. But then the money is distributed to >> skipping a gener skipping a generation.

>> So only those with the name >> with the name. Exactly. wouldn't skip.

If my husband's alive, he would receive it if he if only if he predesceased them

that. >> But what about your daughter if she were to get married?

>> It would still be she would still be the family name. She's the the >> Got it. Okay. I'm tracking now. It's the It's the lineage. It's following the name through Okay, got it. Yeah.

>> Yeah. No, I I got to tell you, when you first said it, I I was first going to go, "Well, I feel like you got to talk to talk to the old guy about it and let him weigh on it, but it's not his call, right?" So, it's already set in motion.

>> Yeah, they're trying to keep it in the bloodline.

>> And uh I don't want to speak completely on behalf of my colleague here, but we both had a kind of gross face when we heard you say, "Is it okay to talk to my daughter and say, "Hey, I know this is supposed to come to you by the bylaws and in stone, but >> yeah." >> How would you feel about cutting us in?

I personally would feel gross about doing that. That's my take. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. I would say um Elena that you and your husband need to set you guys up that if something happens to him that he has life insurance and that you're taken care of and that you don't need this trust because you guys are in a good spot, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. We never had it and it wasn't until we were in our 60s cuz we always assumed >> and had never checked how this passed

and that's how Yeah. That's how we um >> So you guys didn't do life insurance. Is that what you were saying? Because you knew this money was coming. Yeah. So, I wouldn't >> that would not be how I would [laughter] >> I would function more independently of that. >> How are you set up for the future?

What's your current retirement situation? >> Uh, you know, um, we probably have

3 350 maybe um, put aside in between

401ks and uh, savings etc. and another

maybe the >> Did this whole trust issue like do you think it demotivated Joel?

>> No. Uh we were in a bad position for many many years and I Yeah. Yeah. So

>> we do. We do. We still have a mortgage.

We but we probably have you know >> How much is left?

>> Uh 90 99,000 I think.

>> Okay. That's great. How much do you guys make a year? only about um I would say

about 89,000 combined.

>> And what will the house be worth >> if we sold it today? Over 400.

>> Okay. >> All right. So, that's getting us near, let's call it, 700,000.

Okay. Any other savings or anything

beyond the the house equity and uh the retirement fund? Anything else?

>> Uh I don't think so. I don't think I'm missing anything. >> Okay. And how old is your daughter right now? >> 24. >> Okay. >> And how long do you guys feel like you're going to work?

>> Um, you know, probably Well, the the

work we're doing now, we'd probably like to stop by 65, 67 and find something

else. We both have more physical jobs.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And the reason I'm saying that is because uh based on history, Rachel knows this, that you know that 300 How much did you say you had in retirement? 350 >> combined. Maybe 3 Yeah. Uh two.

>> So over the next probably 350. >> All right. So that should double over the next seven years. Okay. Okay. And then if you look at your home, so you start adding the numbers up.

>> Okay. And so now you're looking at uh what do we got? 400 on the house. So

>> what 1.1 million in seven years. uh I

don't know what your social security situation will be but you start stacking all that up and you know whatever you guys can do over the next seven to 10 years to invest a lot of money that's

going to help you be far more comfortable in your 70s and 80s >> and when you think about it Ela and and again all the your calls hypothetical right your husband has not passed none [clears throat] of yeah nothing has happened >> totally y so again hypothetically

you know if if if the grandparents are still living for another I don't know 10 years, 15 years, you know, your situ and

then your husband passes p if he passed away, >> then technically you would have probably at that point a half a million, $600,000 home that you can sell.

>> Mhm. >> And, you know, down, you know, downsize,

put that cash with the investments and you'll have well over 1.5ish million.

You know, you'll be fine without this inheritance is what I'm saying. So, >> okay. >> Um, yeah, I probably wouldn't worry about it. And I do feel I I I do feel weird saying yes, ask your 24year-old daughter for her inheritance. I don't know. I >> We didn't We don't even want her to know that that's the possible amount because we don't want it to >> taint her in any way.

>> Take her drive. Remind me. Remind me what was the amount that you you probably around 2 million, but at 24 that could be, you know, you could blow through that if that were something that happened. But of course that's hypothetical as well, >> right?

They would have to pass and your husband would have to pass. So yeah, yeah, I I appreciate the question. That's where we stand on that. But I think more importantly, your focus needs to be, hey, we can actually finish well, but we should probably get some intensity and see what we can do from an earnings standpoint.

Certainly tighten things wherever we can tighten to invest as much as we can at this stage. And over the next 14 15 years, that's going to turn into a sizable chunk for you guys that should allow you some dignity and and some comfortability.

>> Sounds good. >> Yeah. Thank you so much. That's a good question.

>> Yeah. Thanks for the call. Uh Rachel, >> that's a hard thing. I hear that with with wealthy families passing on generation one that it stays within the family.

>> Um >> and I get that in a in one sense because it is like what if dad remarries some crazy woman and she, you know, he passes and she takes all the money. You know, it's like kind of a drama moment of a movie. I've seen that a few times. But you also want there to be like a little bit of an addendum of like, okay, if you've been married more than 30 years, the wife can [music] take the get the money, too.

I don't know. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know what that looks like, but >> that's very interesting. You mean you give her an out after 30 years, she cashes out?

>> Well, that she that that Elaine would get the money like if her husband had passed. I see.

>> If she passed. I thought you meant like, you know, [laughter] I've done my time.

I'm out. I'm checking out. It's been a good run, but I'd like to be on my own and travel. I thought that's what you were talking about. No, I get that. I like that.

[music]

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Elise is up next in Virginia. Elise, how can we help?

>> Hi, Ken and Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call. Can you hear me?

Okay, >> loud and clear.

>> Perfect. Um, in December, my husband's

Roth 403b was incorrectly transferred

into a traditional IRA account and has

since made $1,000.

Is there any way to transfer the money to the correct Roth IRA account without

paying taxes on the whole account all

over again? >> Who did this? Who made the faulty transaction?

So, we we opened up an account with a

with a financial institution and selected rollover, but it did not say

traditional or Roth and then indicated to the first financial institution that it needs to be a Roth rollover, but the number

listed was a traditional account.

So, >> and instead of like not going through,

they uh they cashed the check and when

we're doing our taxes for this year found that it was not trai it was not Roth, it was traditional.

>> Okay. Has he fixed has he gone in and fixed future contributions or have you guys not even funded for 2026?

We just stopped funding the account as a whole until we can figure out what we're

supposed to do. >> Yes. Okay. Well, there is something called um reccharacterizing the contribution and so you may be able to

do that without penalty or tax before

tax deadline, which is in April. It's coming up. Do you guys have a tax pro that you're working with?

We do, but I I'm not sure how much I love our current tax person because they're saying there's no way to do it.

>> Um, and the one financial institution is

is potentially recommending an excess removal of funds, but I'm I'm not sure if that would trigger taxes on on the cost basis of the account. Yeah, I would get a because there is a there's a small lane at which you can do this because it is from a time period perspective so quick and it's only you know I mean the amount I guess doesn't really matter. It's more the time frame um that you're looking at. So I would probably go get a second opinion.

Um, but also I if if if that can't

happen, if you guys can't be in that lane and you do have to pay taxes, is it just $1,000?

>> No, the cost basis is 82,000 and then

1,000 of growth. So, I don't mind paying taxes on the 1,000 of growth.

>> Yes. >> But it'd be like a $20,000 tax bill for

>> Totally. Yes. I would I would contact a Ramsey trusted um tax pro and again go

to Ramsey.com.

Yeah, to reccharacterize the contribution is a way you would do that

if you can. Um, but I but I'll be honest, I'm not I'm not 100% sure.

>> Me either. And I and again, I appreciate your spirit of saying, "Well, I don't like our tax person because they said we can't do it." But let's get a second opinion and a third opinion. And if all opinions line up, >> you don't have to like it, but it is what it is. It's unfortunate. Hopefully, you guys can undo that and not take too much of a hit. But, you know, unfortunately, you may just be stuck.

>> We have to pay. >> What's that? >> If we do have to like um we can always leave it in the traditional account, but we're 34 and 35, so you know, by the time we retire, it'd be like 1.6.

>> Totally. Yeah. So, yeah, if you can.

Yeah. If you have to end up paying taxes on it, I eventually would. You can roll over some per year so you're not hit with an entire tax bill of 20 grand, but I would eventually convert all of that 82. Yes. to a Roth eventually. So again,

you can break it up year by year if you need to from the tax perspective, but I'm I'm with you. Yes, if you're in your early 30s, I would get it to a Roth. Um

but that's so frustrating. I'm hoping there's a way out for you guys. Um if you get a good tax pro in your corner >> and and silly question here, do we know whose fault it was? And I hate using the word fault, but was it you guys clicking on the wrong button? Uh or was it a mishap, a mistake made by the institution?

So, our accountant says that it's the financial institution's error and it's their responsibility to fix it. Okay.

Well, then that >> institution says it's on our tax person

to file the correct paperwork that indicate X amount was a cost basis.

>> Okay. And your tax pro is not willing to do this?

um cor either yes or they're saying it can't be done >> because they they switched it to where you can't reccharacterize the entire account but I do think you can reccharacterize maybe a contribution like Rachel's talking about I just got here's my point I don't know at the moment might be worth uh looking into a

lawyer you know who who specializes in

this area >> cuz someone >> because the tax bill is a tax bill and you if it's on the financial institution. I would want to get two or three opinions that are legitimate that would say, "Yeah, it's on the financial institution." >> At which point now you have, >> you know what I mean? That's where I would be going right now. I would exhaust that >> uh and and you know, not have to take this on yourself. >> So frustrating. I'm so sorry. So sorry.

>> I'd fight though. >> That human error in all of it cost you ends up costing you money. So uh >> Bruce is up next in Charlotte, North Carolina. Bruce, how can we help?

Hello, uh, Rachel and Ken. Thank you for having me. >> Sure. >> Um, I'm a 62year-old disabled Air Force

veteran and a retired social worker.

>> Uh, today I just bought my 62year-old

fiance an engagement ring.

>> Hey, congratulations, Bruce.

>> Thank you. She doesn't know it yet. I'm going to ask her later later this year to marry me. >> Okay. My qu my question is um I earn

about 52 grand a year and she earns about 150 grand a year. We both are

homeowners separately and so I would

like to come under one roof uh eventually. I live very inexpensively.

She has much more of a much larger house

costs a whole lot more and her interest rate is a whole lot higher than mine.

[snorts] I live on that income. I live about $17 or $1,800 a month with everything. I have no debt besides my house. Uh she has no car payment herself, but probably 20 grand in credit card debt.

>> So, with that, I would like to know whose house do we sell first? Um how do

we make this um you know, how do we come

together on under on one roof? I don't I I don't want to live in her house uh permanently and u I don't mind if she lives in mine until we sell. >> Why don't you want to live in hers? I'm just curious.

>> Uh her house is very much hers. She loves having me there. Um but uh I my

preference would be for us to sell both properties and then >> buy something together.

>> Yeah. Yes, ma'am. I would like that. >> I do a what if conversation between now and the end of the year before I pop the question. >> What does she want to do? Have you guys talked that far? >> We have talked that far. Um, she really, really, really loves my house. In fact, she does not want me to sell it because I live on a man-made lake and it's very pristine and beautiful and peaceful and and all of that, but it is it's small. I

[snorts and clears throat] It's three bedrooms and two baths, but it's it's small. >> Does she want to live in that house?

She would love to live in this house, but then when we talk about it, she wants to make it larger and do things that I'm just don't see the need.

>> Girl, Bruce, you got to you got to spend her. And I appreciate that. That's me at 62 and be like, "Listen." Yeah. So, what I would do is Yeah. I would I would come together and have this conversation and just say, "Hey, there's probably going to be a middle ground." And I think finding a new home for both of you [music] uh could be great. Selling both.

Um, we don't really talk about prenups a lot, but that would be something as you're older and if you guys both have grown children, be thinking about your assets in that way. Um, yeah, so some some things to think about for sure, Bruce. But, uh, congratulations. We are.

Yeah, we're excited for you. But combine the combine the money as much as you can [music] um when you guys get married and become one.

All

>> [music]

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[music]

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>> All right. All right, today's question comes from Marissa in Louisiana. My husband and I

disagree on what non-essentials to eliminate. On what non-essentials to eliminate while paying off debt? I think cutting subscriptions like Netflix along with purchasing sodas, eating out, coffee shops, stops, pet treats, etc.

will make a big difference in paying off the amount of debt that we have. My husband thinks those are small in comparison to the debt that we have and we should not cut those things out because they make us happy. What is your perspective on this dilemma?

[snorts] >> Oh man. Well, there's [clears throat] just an overarching philosophy that is just true

mathematically that the the more you sacrifice and the more you don't spend on things and the more you put it towards debt, the faster you're going to get out of debt. So what does that look like in a process? You know, Jade Warshaw, um, her and Sam paid off, you know, gosh, half a million dollars and it took seven years. So Jade would say there were certain seasons of that seven years of like, hey, we need a little bit of a breather here or there, but they were pretty gung-ho the whole time, but there were things that they did to survive for seven years, right?

So, if it's a longterm play, like a major marathon, and I'm talking three, four, five, six years, there may be the little things here and there that cost, you know, nine bucks, but it just gives a little joy through it. That's great.

>> Does that make sense? There's a little bit of the longevity approach.

>> I agree. I think everything on this list I'd cut except for the pet treats. And I'll tell you why. >> I've got two doodles.

>> I love my doodles. You and George and your dogs. >> But listen, everything. Okay. Netflix, sure. >> Um, sodas. >> I would pay for a soda. No. Pay for a soda. >> It's not healthy for you. Too much sugar. Eating out. Absolutely. We know what Dave says. You don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're a waiter. You know, that whole deal. Okay, here we go. Uh, coffee shop. Overpriced coffee.

Make your own. >> But the pet treats, let me tell you why you keep the >> Your dog will be fine.

>> No, they won't. Because my doodles every

morning, I get up before everybody else. these dogs. I let them out. I let them

back in and I'm getting my coffee ready. I got a whole process. They would drive me to the brink of insanity if I didn't give them their treat in the morning.

>> Joe, everyone knows everyone's dying.

No. Give that dog a little peanut butter on a little cracker and call it a day.

>> Call it a day. >> Now all of a sudden you're Mrs. Cut the budget on the dog treats. >> Call it a day. >> Peanut butter on a cracker.

>> Sure, that's a treat. That dog doesn't know it's a dog.

That's true. My doodles totally think they're human completely. And by the way, >> doodles do think they're human. >> They act like it. They act like humans and I love them for I love my doggies.

All I'm saying is everything else I would put the doggy treat in the grocery budget. And don't go crazy with them.

>> Yeah. No, I hear you. >> Don't compare me to George, by the way.

[laughter] >> That's that's a bridge too far. Uh Logan is up next [laughter] in Dallas, Texas.

Log Oh, what did I do? >> Oh no. >> Oh boy. You hung up on Logan. >> I hit the wrong button. >> You got so flustered. >> Hold on. I'm so flustered that I called you. I got the doggy treats. I'm up in arms. I got you. There's Logan right there. Logan, I'm sorry. I pressed the wrong button. How can we help?

>> No. All good. I I think I may be the first person in Ramsey history that y'all hung up on. >> You know, most time it's people hanging up on on y'all. >> That's true. >> You know, I've never hung up on anybody.

>> Dave hung up on someone on Monday >> next to me. >> Yeah. He was [laughter] feisty and he hung up on someone. got to tell you, I enjoyed it. It was fun to witness, but I won't do that to you. >> Logan, we will not hang up on you. >> I'll be on my best behavior. I promise.

>> We'll see about that. What's going on?

>> I um I am calling with a question. Uh my

wife and I had our first child in October. >> Congrats. >> And um thank you. And I thought we were

being very responsible and started saving when we figured out we were pregnant up to our out-of- pocket maximum with insurance.

Well, we have now gotten to where we have met that out of pocket out of pocket maximum, but still are receiving hospital bills. And these hospital bills are to about the tune of $1,400.

So, I'm a little bit conflicted with how to handle that. Um, >> I have the money to pay it, >> but I don't necessarily feel like I should. And I I I was looking for some guidance. >> You're right.

You are right. If if you are saying if what you're saying is true. Yeah. I'd be the worst nightmare of my insurance company until they got so sick of hearing my name because if the policy is the policy and you've hit your out of pocket, then hold your ground.

>> And look at I'm not shocked. The billing within the medical world, everything, it's it's horrible. So honestly, it's probably an administrative error to be honest. They probably didn't even hit something in a computer they should have.

>> Wait a second. He's got a retort here. >> Oh, what is it?

this. I talked to my wife's talked to the insurance company. I don't even want to know how many times. I've I've been on the phone with them a couple. She has a lot more patients than I do. Um [laughter] but um all of that to say they are claiming that the reason for the overage is that this hospital which is in their

network um exceeded the amount for a

private room that they allocate on the policy. However, this hospital that again is in their network does not have any other option. It's not like we like opted for some sort of an upgrade to get right >> you know the fancy room. It's just the room's there that cost that much.

>> See, that's between that's between the hospital and the insurance company. And I would just absolutely fight to the end

on that. This is the kind of crap that the American people are having to deal with. I'm so sorry uh that you're having to deal with. >> I guess the question is who I who who do I need to fight? Point me in the right direction. The insurance company? Is that the hospital? >> Both of them. I'd go to the hospital and I'd say you aren't going to get paid on this from me. So this is where you guys

go to the insurance company and fight it out with them. >> Yes. So I did that and they could not help me over the phone. >> I could not get a hold of somebody who had the authorization to >> settle the amount.

>> Um I was told to send an email to some very generic billing email address. So I, you know, got on chat GBT and got some help with professional wording that was maybe a little kinder than what I would have written. >> I'd show up. I'd show up >> and Okay, >> show up.

>> Show up and just Okay, >> just go. Hey, here's the deal. I got an outstanding situation. You guys want to get this paid on this $1,400 bill?

Let me tell you where I'm at and you've told me to do all this and I've done it. By the way, I can show you my record of sending the email. Go in there and make the case and go, "Hey, I'm not mad. I'm not going to, you know, threaten anything.

I'm here because I need you guys to get together and insurance and I and I would, you know, I just wouldn't pay him a nickel is my point. >> Yeah, I would not pay them. >> It's frustrating because I mean there's a lot of people like I have friends now and I don't necessarily agree with this, but I just don't pay it because supposedly it doesn't count against you financially or credit scores and all that, but that doesn't necessarily sit well with me. Like I don't want it just >> Well, you want it you want it resolved eventually.

Yeah. I'm not saying when I say don't pay it, I don't mean just, you know, >> put your head in the sand. But I'm saying I would fight and put it on them and say, "Guys, I'm not going to pay something. And here's why.

to figure this out. My policy says this.

I've done everything that I can do, and you two need to get together. Hospital, you sent the bill. Insurance won't pay it." That's y'all's problem.

>> How long, Logan, have you guys been dealing with this?

So, uh, our daughter was born in October. So, since October the 8th.

Well, I say that. >> Well, when did the bills start?

>> Two months to even get the bills out.

So, yeah. So, I mean, >> those started showing up probably late December, early January.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I'm going to double down on what I said. And let me tell you why.

Because if you go talk to somebody and you're nice and you are a nice guy and you just go, "Hey, I'm here. I'll wait. I got two hours today. I got an hour next Thursday.

I'll be here. Count on it. And here's what I want to do. I want to show you everything because you all, it's your bill.

You have to explain to my insurance company that we didn't get an upgrade. We didn't get the corner suite with the couch pull out. This was your the room you gave us. And I think if you're kind and civil and you just show and say, "This is your problem.

This stuff happens all the time. You know what happens? I believe deep down, Rachel, this is a conspiracy theory.

Probably >> love it. I believe they just love to not

deal with it knowing that people eventually give in >> and they'll just pay [music] it. >> And I think if you just say, "I'm not giving in." >> It's the fight. And you hear this all the time with medical stuff, it is the billing, [music] all of it, it is a it's exhausting. But for that and for your grounds, if you want to stand on there, do it.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsay's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you.

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[music]

[music] Our scripture of the day comes from Philippians 3:es 13 and 14. One thing I do forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Our quote today is from CS Lewis. Getting over a

painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward.

>> Oh, >> love the uh that's really good.

>> It is. Now, quick question before we move on. Did Did are monkey bars still on children's playgrounds? >> They are. They're there. >> Okay. I'm happy about that. Me too. My wife and I were talking recently. We were looking through some old photos >> and I'll never forget the first time our oldest who's now 20.

>> We did monkey bars and I got in trouble because I let him fall.

>> Oh gosh, Ken. Sometimes they're super high. >> It wasn't. >> How old? Okay. >> And they were wood chips below so it wasn't concrete. And I And when I say fall, he wasn't like panicking or freaking out. He was just letting go and I and I was right there >> and I kind of guided him as he felt cuz I wanted him to go it's okay.

>> Yeah. >> It was not okay. >> Oh no. >> Stacy was not happy. She's like Ken, what are you doing? >> She had a word. >> What are you doing, Ken? >> Uh-huh. He could have broken his leg, his arm. >> All for a little monkey bar. All for a lesson >> on the wood chips. >> On the lot of wood chips. A splinter.

Yes. >> Might be able to bounce.

>> I learned my lesson there. So, dads, >> you remember that 20 years later? that hands up and and let them fall

>> little bit, >> but catch them >> right before >> and then they're going to learn some trust in you. I was trying to do a deeper life lesson. Did not go the way I >> for the three-year-old Ken. >> There it is. Be careful the monkey bars.

Uh air is joining us now in Philadelphia. How can we help?

>> Good afternoon. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you?

>> I'm good. Thanks for asking. I wish a lot better, but uh >> oh, >> I'm doing good. Thank you. >> Okay. How can we help? So, um um I'm I'm

I'm about 50 to 55,000 in credit card debt

with another 20 on top uh because of my

car and I just needed some advice on how

to get out. >> Okay. >> Oh, man. What's the credit card debt? Um what caused you to go into $50,000 of credit card debt?

Um well I'm I was divorced about three or four years ago now. >> Okay. >> And um I was just distraught after that.

I wasn't paying attention of where my money was going. >> Okay. So it was just kind of lifestyle spending, grief spending just in the in an unhealthy place in life and money was a little bit of an outlet to >> Yes. Medicaid better.

>> Absolutely. I don't drink or smoke, but it's again just not being as responsible as I should have been. >> No, it's fine. Yeah. >> What kind of income do you make?

>> Um, I make about 60 to 65K.

>> What do you do?

>> Uh, truck driver, semi.

>> Okay. And anytime any opportunity for overtime right now or are you capped?

>> Absolutely. >> How much?

>> Um, it's kind of hit or miss. There's like there's no uh >> Okay. >> Well, I mean to give you a direct answer, maybe uh once a week.

>> Okay. >> Once or twice a week. >> All right. Let's go. >> Let's go once or twice a week. We're just kind of ideating for a second.

Okay. Once twice a week over a four-week

month. How much extra income would that bring to you?

um over a month it would bring me

maybe two to 400 extra dollars.

>> Only two to 400. Okay. Is this open road or is it local driving?

>> Local. >> Okay. So, how many hours a week are you putting in driving right now?

>> Uh right now anywhere from uh

from 40 to 50.

>> Okay. And and do you have the capability? I don't know what's going on in your relationship life, but do you have the capability of driving an additional 20 hours if you picked up a second truck driving job that had a good hourly rate? I'm thinking 20 plus an hour.

>> Um, that's the thing. I I have a daughter. >> Okay. >> So, and we do have a child custody

arrangement. >> Okay. >> How often do you have her? Is it every other week or is it um certain days of

the week? >> Yeah, certain days. three days out of the week and then every other weekend.

>> Okay, you get where I'm going. One of the one of the things you have to do here is get more income. And that's going to allow us to to pay off $75,000 worth of debt. Tell me about the car really quick. How much do you owe? Well, you owe 20 on the car. What is it worth?

>> Yeah, it's about 20. I'm not sure what it's worth. It's a 2015. It's in kind of good shape with 90,000 miles on it.

>> Do you think you could get 20 out of it or more?

No, I think I'd be lucky to get

>> 1617. >> What's the car payment every month?

>> 600. >> Do you have good credit?

>> Absolutely not. >> Okay. Because what I was thinking there, Rachel, is do we go to a credit union and try to get out of that car? >> What? Yeah. So, I would you Kelly blue

book this car. Okay. And let's just say it's 17,000.

>> Air. What I would say is my first goal would be to get a $1,000 emergency fund.

And then I think what I would do is start to save and stockpile and see if you can make, you know, $1,1500

extra a month. Okay?

>> And within six months, you'll have six grand. So you'll get you can throw three of that 3,000 of that at this car. And

so when you sell it, you can, you know, you'll be clean of it. And then you'll have another 3,000 to go buy a really crappy car when that sells. And then that gets you 20. So now you're down to 50,000 of credit card debt. And then you can start really attacking that credit card debt. And again with what you're

making and if you can work extra, you know, it may take you about 2 years to climb out of this credit card debt, but you could you can do it.

>> It's just >> however long it takes. I just need to be pointed in the in the right direction.

And um >> I'm pretty dedicated. Like once I get the ball rolling, I just need to be told that I can do it. >> You can listen, let's get real numbers here, okay? If you did $3,000 a month,

now this is going to be extra income and life is not going to be fun, okay?

You're gonna be working like crazy, but if you can do $3,000 a month, okay, that's going to get you out of this debt in a year and a half.

You got to have >> that 3,000 extra on top of what I'm

>> or or I mean, well, if you play Rachel's

plan here, like she's talking about, we get rid of this car, then you've got the 55 >> of credit card debt. I'm talking about that number. >> And if you freeze up your car payment too, Amir, that's 700 bucks right there.

So out of that 3,700 of that for Ken's math >> is part of that, right? So really, you're trying to find two extra thousand or $1,000, right? So anything extra with

that car payment that you're not paying that car payment anymore cuz you sold the car. That's going to really free up a lot and you really will start moving.

And what's crazy too is um you know we talked to so many people when you're on a journey that's you know that two to three years um even four years you know you may get a raise in the meantime you know stuff stuff happens in that length of time and any extra money that you have >> you throw at this credit card debt and how many credit cards equal the 50,000 [clears throat] >> um five >> five are any of them in collections >> I think one is >> one is okay because if any are fall into collections there's a good chance you negotiate that down >> as well.

Um, so if [clears throat] that's even a $5,000 out of the 50 or whatever it is, 10,000, you could probably negotiate that for half or even less than half. Um, but yeah, but where I would start, Amir, is I would get a $1,000 emergency fund.

>> Yes, >> you do. How much do you have saved?

>> Um, I'm going to say about maybe 24

right now. 2400.

>> 2400. Okay. Amazing. Not a lot.

>> No, that's great. No, that's awesome.

So, yep. I would keep a,000 as an emergency fund. I would have that other 1,400 as my get get money saved to buy a

new car and to pay the difference of this car that you're in. Um, get that rolling, right? Get the car situation done and give yourself five months to do that. Say, you know, by by July or

whatever it is, right? Have a time frame. Say, by July, my car is going to be sold. I'm going to have enough money saved up to to do the difference and buy

a crappy car in the meantime and then

start in August. I got a two-year journey to pay off this credit card debt and cut up the credit cards. Don't go near them and really start, you know, moving forward. But if you stay on the line of mirror, we're going to give you um the total money makeover book that'll walk you through the baby steps and every dollar. We'll give you a year subscription. That's our budgeting app.

>> Yeah. that also you can plug in all of your numbers too in that and that can help you through the process. But we are here for you. Call us back if you need us.

But that's that's where I would start and you're doing great. You I mean genuinely the first step is the belief that you can do it [music] and that you can start something new and change your habits which the making this call is that first step. Deb, thank you for the call. Uh listen, remember this everybody.

>> [music]

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## 109. Money Chaos Doesn’t Have to Be Forever | September 18, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:07:29 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and host of The Front Row Seat, a big hit on Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Phone number8825-55225.

Daniel is in California. Hi, Daniel. How are you? >> Hi, Dave. Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thank God. First, I just want to say I'm I'm a big fan. Um I'm young, but I I

first heard about you in uh in high school. Wow. >> I just wanted to say that. >> Well, thank you. >> Um uh so I'm 23 years old. I started a

finance brokerage about three years ago uh with some outside investors.

Initially they promised about a million to two million of investment for half the company and then um basically right as we signed like a major office lease.

Uh they had some financial troubles pulled out leaving me with all the overhead. Um at that time I decided to

just try and pick pick up the business myself. At one point we were doing about like 200,000 gross a month. Now it's closer to like 100 to 120. Um, after

expenses, uh, it's probably around 40 to 50. And then during that rebuilding process, I racked up about like maybe 80,000 in credit card debt. Um, now the

investors want their money back. They originally demanded double. I I negotiated it down to just the principal. Um, the challenge is given their connections and influence, I can't really just like refuse to pay them even though it was an investment. So, I'm trying to figure out, you know, the best way to pay them off the the credit card debt while still being able to grow the business. >> What's your business do?

>> Uh, we we're like a brokerage. We assist small and mediumsiz businesses to obtain financing.

>> Okay. So, you're brokering business loans, >> correct? Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Um,

and you did all this by yourself at 23 years old?

Uh, at the time I was 22, but yeah, now I'm 23. >> So, so the um is the investment these were venture

capitalists that were put putting money in for a piece of the ownership.

Correct. >> Correct. Yes.

>> And they invested their money in. And is there uh any documentation on how that

investment was to be governed, when it was to be repaid or anything like that?

Yeah. So, they were they basically pledged about a million heard that then they didn't do it. They didn't do what they said they were going to do. But what's your documentation say on the deal? Surely you didn't do this freaking deal on a handshake.

>> Correct. Yeah. The the contract said that they they were supposed to contribute until it's profitable and that was kind of their role. So, technically, according to the contract, they they didn't hold up to their part,

>> right? And the contract said they were going to get their money back. how >> it would it had just been through equity, >> but they were going they were going to be an owner a percentage owner of the business. Correct. >> Correct. Yeah. So eventually when the business were to become profitable they would get uh half of the profits.

>> Mhm.

Okay. Um

well I number one I don't buy that anyone has the influence to put you out of business. I think that's absolute bull crap. So, I'm really don't care what they think. They broke their word.

They violated the contract. They're in default on the deal.

Okay. Yeah. >> From an ethics standpoint. And until

they're profitable, they don't get anything. But they're, you know, they were supposed to put in a million dollars to get half. They never played through. They only put in 300,000.

And so what does the contract say about

parties not following through and being in default?

>> So what's kind of weird about the situation is given who they are and they're involved in the community I'm in and they were put together by like somebody we personally knew. Um it just

was going to be a really big mess if I were to try and basically say you defaulted. You're you know you don't deserve the equity. >> You know what? so intimidated by something that just does not exist. I don't believe what you believe.

>> Yeah, >> I'm calling BS. You You've got these guys made out to be some big deal and they're they can't can't even come up with the money they're supposed to come up with. So, I don't know how they're a big deal.

>> So, the thing is now that they're apparently doing better, that's kind of like where they came back to light saying, "We're ready to reinvest." And I'm like, "No, >> no, you're you you didn't follow through on the you're in default." So go back to the question Dave just asked you because it's the right question. You didn't answer it. You went into well because of their what does the letter of the contract say as it pertains to these

investors? They are in default.

Everybody on this phone call agrees. So what does the contract say?

>> The contract says that they would only have a a reduced equity amount based on

what they gave. So >> So that's what they got.

>> Yeah. And if they want their money back, toughies. >> Yeah. He just >> So that's that's kind of like the >> here's an idea, boys and girls. You're going to abide by the contract this time.

>> So the the thing is my question basically is um that's kind of the ultimatum they gave, which was okay, either we're going to we're going to own a percentage of the company um or you're

going to you're going to buy us out. So given the types of people they are, obviously I want to get them out.

>> Yeah. But you don't have 300 grand.

Correct. So my question is, is it would it be smart to try and put together some sort of payment plan with them to to try and wipe that out? >> Yeah. I mean, how much can you do? 25 a month, be done in a year.

>> It would it would I mean, that's kind of the question. If I try and put that dollar amount, I'm worried am I am I really >> Why don't you give them a percentage of profits that is equal to I mean, what's

your typical profit in a month? You said 40k.

Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So, let's give them 50% of profits until you get your 300.

>> That's that's the idea that I had. Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's good.

>> And then I got to tell you, I I I do want you to reset >> and realize that you you still have these guys on a pedestal where they do not belong.

You think they have more power than they actually have and you think they have more influence in the community than they actually have. cuz I know people in our community that screw people over.

They're known, but they're also known for screwing people over.

>> And so, you know, and when it's not convenient, and when it is convenient is when they do deals. And that's that's who these guys are. So, they're not as influential and powerful as you have made them out to be in your mind. I promise you, they're not. Okay? Guys

that break on deals like this are not guys that they don't hold influence because other people know this. They know this about them. You're just finding it out late.

other people stayed away from them when you did a deal with them. So I don't don't do any of this based on ooh oo oo these guys are a big deal. These guys aren't a big deal. They're a couple of crooks. Didn't follow through on their deal. And that's who I'm negotiating this contract with. Yeah. If you want to buy them out for 300, give them their 300 back at uh 50% of profits until you

get to 300, no interest, then that's fine. And that's going to take about a year give or take. Yeah. I mean that's okay.

Do that. But uh and and I think you need some legal advice cuz I don't think you you know I think you're reading a contract that was written by guys that screwed you. And so you need to get someone else to actually look at this contract and make sure cuz a lot of contracts what I'm saying Daniel is a lot of contracts like this say if you're in default you lose it all.

nothing honey. Just like the cereal nothing honey. Okay. That's what most contracts of this type would say.

Default means you out, baby. That's what it means. Means you you didn't put a million in. You only put 300 in, so you lose the 300. Nothing, honey. You need to check that. I think it might have a nut and honey clause in it.

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Exclusions apply.

[Music]

>> Brian's in New York. Hey, Brian. What's up? >> Hey Dave, how's it going? Uh, pleasure to be speaking with you. I've I've been following you for years. Um, >> yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, obviously I've I've been following you.

I've been listening to you, but I haven't been implementing the, you know, your strategies. Um, so just to give you

some information, I'm 29 years old. Um, I just finished up college last year. I got my undergrad. I have about $55,000

in uh student loans. And then I have about $35,000 in $35,000 in uh credit

card debt. And um I just got a uh a job

with an insurance company. Um it's a $80,000 starting salary with a 10% target bonus. And um obviously because

of the loans and then the credit card debt, the the credit card debt got so bad that um I had to go into a like it basically was a charge off with the credit union that I was with. And so it's two cards. One's for about 19 and one's for about uh 16. So I I'm kind of,

you know, like you said, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. Um, I've been, you know, haven't been using, uh,

haven't haven't had good spending habits the past couple years. Um, but luckily I did get this job. I just started about 3 months ago. Um, but my credit score is really bad. And >> what you paycheck to paycheck?

>> Before that, I was I was working about I was making about 35,000 while I was in school. >> Okay. What is the credit card debt composed of mostly?

>> What did you buy >> to be honest with you? Um, just a lot of of of uh partying, just being an irresponsible young 20-year-old and uh yeah, in my young 20s and just uh mismanaging it and just spending it on on going out and doing, you know, >> whatever it was. And just >> Were you able uh not counting the partying, but just food and shelter and lights and water? Were you able to exist on the 35,000

income?

>> Not really, to be honest with you. Um, a lot of >> What's it take? What's it take for you to exist bare minimum right now?

>> Like 40. >> Bare minimum amount. I would say about about 45 to 50.

>> Okay. Call it 50. You're making 80 plus

bonuses. >> You have no car payment, none of that.

>> No. No. So, >> so if you put 30 If you live on 50 and you put 30 on the debt, Yeah. >> you're um debtree in two and a half

years.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

>> How far behind are how long since you paid the credit cards?

>> It's been um it's been about three years. >> Okay. Now, you can probably settle those for about a quarter on the dollar.

>> So, the first thing I want you to do is I want you to save up $4,000 and call them and talk to him about the $16,000 one and say, "I've got $4,000. Would you if you can accept that a settlement in full, I'll give it to you right now." No, no, no. We want payments. No, I can't do that. But I can give you 4,000 as settlement in full. We can't do that.

We It We require six. Okay. I'll have to call you back later cuz I don't have six. I got four, >> right? >> No payments, no process. And settle those for pennies on the dollar and clear them out and then attack the student loans with a vengeance. But you're going to have to get on a written plan. And here's the great news. You're

about to turn your whole life around so that you can turn this debt around.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. because you've correctly identified what caused the problem. Now

you've got a second chance at being an adult making 80 grand and now you got to be an adult.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> So the guy in the mirror, he he's a different dude now. Starting ready today. Starting today. Ready, set, go.

>> Absolutely. Definitely will. cuz that cuz your money's going to flow out of your personal healing and maturing.

The fixing of your money is not going to occur independent of you maturing and healing. You understand what I'm saying?

>> Yes. >> Those two things are together. They're part of the same equation because personal finance is 80% behavior.

Behavior comes from you.

And so, you know, if you go, okay, this 80,000 I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. I've been feel like I'm sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else win while I was screwing off and I'm that's no no more me. Now I'm in the game. They're getting ready to give me the ball and I'm going to run the ball in the dad gum end zone and nobody's going to stop me and I'm going to look in the mirror and say on Friday night I'm working extra. I'm not going to happy hour.

>> Absolutely. >> Cuz I'm getting out of debt and I want my life back and I want to be a 30-year-old man, not a 20-year-old party animal.

I'm just I'm playing back for you what you said. Okay.

>> Yes. >> But I'm speaking life over you, son. You can do this.

>> Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

>> Yeah. I I want to ask you real quick uh on that end. I'm sitting here listening here. You are a guy who listened to Dave for many years while doing all this destructive stuff. So that tells me that

your conviction, your values

aligned with what Dave had been saying on the show and yet your behavior was different. So I'm just real curious, not putting you on the spot to embarrass you, but but to lift you.

>> What is what's going on below the surface? >> What was really going on? Why all the partying?

I think um I just had a

there was just like a I guess a like like a low self-esteem issue that I had

uh in my young younger years and I I kind of finished up school late. Um >> I had some like a rough go in my you know after high school. I I really didn't didn't uh take things seriously

until I was about 24. And then that's when I started I realized I was like I I got to get back in school. I got back in school, worked my ass off while I was working, paying for school, and uh I got

it done, and I got I got a great opportunity. >> Now, now you get to ring Now you get to ring the bell. >> So, here's here's what I want to leave with you on this, cuz Dave nailed this.

Uh you didn't think you were good enough

to pull off this money value stuff that we teach. You didn't think you just had a self-esteem issue. And we don't need to dig anymore, but I think it's really important you get off this call and realize what's really going on here because you're going to be tempted again in the days ahead to believe this false narrative that you weren't good enough to live like no one else.

>> Yeah. >> I I just really think that's way below the surface. >> Yeah, I agree. And he said it. I mean, it's what he told us. Yeah. So, you're exactly right. Exactly right. Hey, Brian, go get them, man. And call us back when you're winning. We want to hear your story. Okay. I love it.

Hadtie's with us. Hattie is in Indianapolis. Hi Addie, how are you?

>> Hi Dave, I'm fine, thank you. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure, how can we help?

>> Um, I just need some guidance about

whether now that I have the means, I

should pay off my aranged son's student

loan debt. >> Why would you do that?

Well, because uh before we were aranged,

I promised him that when my father died

that I I knew I would receive some money and that I promised him that I would pay the debt. >> Okay. >> There's no legal obligation. I know that. >> Yeah. Okay. How much is it?

>> $30,000. >> And how much money do you have?

>> 2.5. >> Okay. Um yeah, I'd pay it off.

>> Yeah. It's not about him. Okay. It's about you, >> right? >> You're keeping a promise you made. Has nothing to do with anybody else. This is you being you >> cuz that's who you are. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> And uh it just makes it greasy. It makes it slimy.

>> But um and and it does make you go, "Am I am I losing my rapid mind?" But 30K out of 2.5, I think you you'll be okay.

You know, you can burn that much in the middle of the floor and not worry about it. And I but I I would have zero expectations that this fixes the arangement. It's just you keeping your word. That's all it is.

>> Right. Right. And I don't want him to feel like, you know, >> I can't control how he feels.

>> Right. No. Exactly. >> All I can control is what I promise to do and I'm going to do what I promise to do. >> Yep. >> That's all I can control. Very good. >> That's all I can control. If I could control him, he wouldn't be estranged, you know? I mean, I can't make him do anything, you know. He wouldn't be he wouldn't be off the ranch, right? So, >> yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry you're going through that. How long have y'all been disconnected?

>> Four years. >> I'm so sorry.

Over what? >> And he's 25 now and doing well. Um,

well, there was a straw that broke the camel's back, a big argument his senior year of high school, but I was a single mom most of my life. And I think I he

was raised in a household full of my anxiety and fear about how to how to be

a single mom.

>> I'm sorry. Yeah. Hey, you raised him.

He's eating. He's alive. You fed him.

Sometimes you just got to kick back and go, "That's what I did. I was trying to get by. Oh well, next thing." Yeah, I'd

write a check just to keep your word.

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Aaron is here in Pittsburgh. Hi Erin, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm great. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay. I am a realtor. Um and as such, my

my income fluctuates. Um I just started

the every dollar budgeting. I have the app. Um here's my question that since I

started, I've put my business fees in

with my household expenses and everything else. No. >> Um and now I feel like Yeah. I I know.

So, I I'm getting I have an appointment at my credit union to get a separate account. >> Um, but here's my question.

>> Is is there should I get another budgeting? Should I just open up a different Every Dollar app or should I put those expenses in the current Every Dollar app or how do I budget this?

>> Uh, you could try to run in the Every Dollar app. It's not really well designed for a business P&L >> and a profit and loss statement and you really need a business P&L. So, it's just something like QuickBooks or something like that. They're very easy softwares.

And basically what it is is it's all your gross revenues, the income you make in the real estate business goes into that separate new account. >> And the only thing you pay out of that new account is business expenses. So, your realtor fees, if you uh, you know, buy signs or you buy, I don't know, anything that's a valid business expense associated with you doing your real estate business comes out of that account. Nothing else.

>> You don't pay any personal bills out of that account.

>> Okay, great. >> And what comes out of that account then when you take money out of that account and bring it home, you need to set aside a fourth of it for taxes.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So if you pull, you know, if you pull $10,000 out of that account, you need to set 2500 aside because you're supposed to be filing once a quarter your estimated taxes. They're called quarterly estimates and you're supposed to be doing that as well. If you don't keep up with that, number one, you'll get behind the eightball and have a big old tax bill and it'll knock you down.

Number two, you're going to get penalized. So, um, sit down with a tax

preparer and help that get them to show you how to do your, uh, your quarterly estimates, set up your separate account, run this, run your separate business like you were running it for someone else, and then when you pull the profits out and bring them home, set aside a fourth of it, and that money all is coming home. So, how much have you made selling real estate so far?

Um, I mean it it fluctuates. This year my net commission is around 45. Um, and

I estimate a little bit more. I also have some other income sources, so I'm trying to >> I'm just trying to tweak everything.

It's all in a big pile.

>> Yeah. Good. What are the other income sources?

>> Um, I teach part-time at a university.

Um, and I Uber and I get some child

support. >> Okay. All right. Well, child support goes straight into your account. No question about that. When you teach, is that a W2 or are 1099 in you?

>> That's a W2. >> Okay. So, you don't have any tax. So, that money goes straight into your account. >> Okay. >> Correct. And um Okay. So, that just goes Okay. >> Yeah. And your Uber's $1099. >> Not the Uber. Should uh Yes. So, should I put that in the real estate account?

>> Yeah. I I would just say this is my business account. I'm going to put my Uber income in there. And I'd have two line items. You know, I have real estate income and I have Uber income. And so,

you know, you can you can code the expenses. Uh, for instance, let's just use an example. If you were spending money on fuel to show houses, then we

could have gasoline- R for real estate. And then we could have gasoline-u for you, for Uber.

>> Okay? And then you could be able to pull up the different expenses associated with Uber, the different expenses associated with real estate, but they're all still net expenses going right down the list there, and you'll be able to tell what's happening with your business. >> Yeah. Question. How much are you spending uh how many hours a week are you spending in the Uber?

>> Um I spend about 15 to 20, give or take.

>> Is that because you're running really tight financially?

>> Yes. this correct right now I am. But it's also good income just I I've just >> not income if it's not good income if you're selling real estate. >> Yeah.

I I want you to get out of that is where I'm digging there because that time spent that time spent there could be spent in other ways and I want to see you get out of that. I'm not sure that's the best ROI on your time. Not to mention tearing the car up and everything else. So I understand if you're filling a gap temporarily, >> but you were saying that's going to change.

>> Well, I had a few uh sales that got pushed. It's usually a little bit more regular, but sometime but it's it's up and down. So, sometimes I'm so busy I I literally can't eat and sometimes I I have nothing to do and I'm just prospecting and not not earning anything. So, I'm trying to get more I've never really budgeted. So, now I have the Every Dollar app. have the great advice from you all and I have more of a sense of stability and um

consistency. So, I think that's going to help me. >> Yeah. The more you can get a steady flow in your real estate pipeline, the more your income's going to be steady in your real estate pipeline and it's going to be a better income than Ubering.

>> That's right. And now that you're budgeting, I love where your head's at.

That's where you need to get to to where you're accounting for downtimes, but

you're actually prospecting, prospecting, prospecting, not in the Uber. That's where you want to get to because you're going to see a much better pipeline and long-term results that way. >> Shane is in Texas. Hi, Shane. How are you? >> Good. How are you, sir? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Uh, I just wanted some guidance. Um, I'm getting ready to sell my home. um got divorced within the last year and um got a little bit of debt with a little bit of commercial debt, a vehicle and then some student loans. Um nothing terribly crazy for my income level, but I just want to position myself best for being a homeowner again. It was about maybe a year or so after I sell my house in the next few months. So, um just kind of

looking what what best to do with that money.

>> Uh so, you're going to get enough out of the house to be debtree.

I'll be I'll be pretty close. Um so current currently I have about $9,000 in commercial just credit card debt that um I paid about 10% of that down in the last year. And then uh I'm currently on baby step two. And then I've got a

vehicle that has a note about 16 to 17,000 on it and that's that'll be paid off in just under two years. Um still a

new vehicle, all reliable and that's the main reason I've kept it. Plus I'm not upside down on it right now. Um >> what what is your income?

>> Uh about 125 gross.

>> Okay. And how much will you get out of the sale of the house?

>> Anywhere between 20 to 25.

>> Okay. Why would you not just pay off these debts?

>> So that's that's my plan. I just kind of want to figure out what if you had any guidance on where best to put it first because I'm not going to be able to pay off the total amount. Um >> there you are. You're getting 25. You only owe 16 and nine. That's 25. Well,

and I've also got a student loan that's about 16,000. U and so and that's

basically if I pay out I could pay almost all of everything. My my idea was if I pay off my vehicle and I and I hold the value in that for a while and then I also pay off the credit cards, then I'll just be making a student loan payment, which will be my lowest. Uh if I do that, I'll be paying the least amount of money per month at minimum and I can pay it off faster. Um, but I didn't know if

that was >> So, if you don't have a car payment and you don't have the other loan and all you got is a student loan and you make 120 and you're no longer married, how fast are you planning on paying off 16,000 of student loan?

>> I think I could probably pay that off within a year. Uh, >> oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's horrible with making more. That's so wimpy.

>> No, like like four months. $4,000.

>> I mean, that's all Yeah. That's also realistic. >> Yeah, it is realistic. also got Yeah.

Yeah. Add to that, I've also got I've got three kids and I pay child support as well. There's not it's not a 125.

>> Stop your 401k and pay off your student loan in four months >> and when the house sells when the house sells immediately pay off the other two debts. There's nowhere to park the money cuz you're going to pay off the debt. It's going into your checking account. You're going to write a check.

Pay off the debts. >> Yeah. >> And then in four months, $4,000 a month, dude. Roll up your sleeves and get after it.

It's time. Listen, it's a new phase of life, a new chapter. Let's make the page clean, okay?

Go, "Oh, I paid off $900 in a year." You

that bull, that's nothing.

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Are you on track with the baby steps?

Take a quick quiz for free to check your progress and receive a free personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes, click the link entitled, "Are you on track with the baby steps and complete the free quiz?" Sharice is with us in Indianapolis. Hi, Shereice.

How are you?

>> Hi, good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, well, I'm calling my husband and I. Um, well, my husband agrees. I want to

add an addition to our house. We've been in our house 14 years and our kitchen is tiny. Our house is large. Um, we have a

family of six. Um, so we use all five of

our bedrooms and I have a homebased daycare. So, we use a large living area

um as my business. Um, and I would like

to add an addition on the back of our house which would give us the kitchen that I'd like. It would also bring our laundry upstairs. Um, put a bathroom on

for um, the daycare. So, they'd have their own bathroom and it would give us a four season room which would just give us more living space. Um, the addition

would cost us about $150,000

and um, I want to refinance to be able

to do that. My husband is on board but

says you would say no way.

>> Oh, how much debt do you have not counting the mortgage?

>> Uh, no debt. >> Good. How much money do you have not counting retirement?

>> Um, about 15,000. Um, as personal, but

daycare also has its own emergency fund of 10,000.

>> Okay.

All right. And you're funding retirement now?

>> Yes. >> Good. Okay. Sounds like you got a pretty good plan overall. What's the home worth today?

>> Um today it's worth about 375,000.

>> Okay. All right. And um

so are you in a neighborhood or on a piece of land or what?

>> Uh we are in a neighborhood. We're inside the city limits. Um, but we're on a large lot. We have about 3/4 of an acre, which is one thing that I love about it. >> If I drew If I drew a circle of three miles around your home, >> what's the typical house price in that three mile circle?

>> Um, I would say, well, I found another

home um that checks all of my boxes and

it was selling for 875,000.

I don't know an average price. Um, That's not in a 3m radius of your home, though. >> Oh, it is. Yes. >> Oh, it is. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> So, what what do the houses what do the houses on your street sell for?

>> Um, between

300 and five, I don't know, five or

600,000.

>> Yeah, I do. They don't sell for that much. It's between 300 and 450, isn't

it? Really? You're getting ready to overbuild the neighborhood, aren't you?

probably. Yes.

>> You're going to have a house that that you would try to sell for 600,000. And people that are looking for $600,000 houses don't drive on your street.

>> That's probably true. >> Yeah. That means you've overbuilt the neighborhood. So, that probably means you need to think about moving instead of doing this. Well, how's the daycare business? How healthy is it?

>> It is very healthy. Spitt

what did you make last year off of that profit?

uh daycare I made um like 60,000.

>> Okay. Um >> I guess Dave, where I'm going is is if are we doing this for the space or are we doing this because the daycare is in the house and you know >> because she wants a kitchen.

>> Um why we're doing it. Um it's a $150,000 kitchen and some other stuff got scope creeped. Um the um

well I I um I have owned so many pieces

of real estate and I grew up in a real estate guy's house. My parents were in the real estate business so our furniture was trained to jump on the truck. Um we so I have I don't get as

emotionally tied down to certain locations as some people. Um, so to me

it's just a house. >> And so I think you might actually find

something that better serves your needs uh for 600,000 in a neighborhood that's that's 500 to 700,000 and um maybe is a little more

modern too um and would be close enough

that you wouldn't lose your daycare clients and those kinds of things. I think that's out there. And before I overbuilt the neighborhood and did a renovation, and by the way, I've also done a couple of renovations while I was living in the home, and I'll never do that again. It makes me want to shoot myself. Uh that it's just a it's just sawdust and drywall dust everywhere. And it's everybody's mad all the time. Uh

the the subs are mad because they got to deal with the owners. The owners are mad because they got to deal with the subs. And you're you're you're screwing around inside my house while I'm trying to wash my underwear. It's just it's awful. It's just awful. And so I don't recommend it.

um the um uh from a standpoint of that

this is a massive undertaking. It's a big deal and it's going to take a lot of

your life away for a year or a year and a half while you do this. Not to mention that when you're done, you've built a house that's kind of weird and it's overbuilt for the neighborhood.

So, you're going to have a hard time getting good appreciation out of it and getting a good sale out of it. I would consider moving about 10 times out of 10

before I did this deal. Um, but yeah,

that's uh if you did refinance it, the numbers we would tell you to go with are 15-year fixed on the whole mortgage

cannot be more than a fourth of your household take-home pay. If it's more than that, then it's just off the table, period. You can't do it at all. Um, and that's also going to be true when you move. It's off the table, you can't move. So, um, but, um, I I I think

you're you are getting ready to have another full-time job for a year on top of the full-time job that you have, which is renovation.

It takes up it takes up so much of your head space. You burn so many calories managing a renovation, especially one while you're living in it. And it's just a it's just a deal. I I can't recommend that to you. It's going to interfere with your business. It's going to interfere with your marriage. And when you're done, you're going to have an unusual floor plan on a property that you've overbuilt the neighborhood on.

And I can't I just don't think there's not much good here. The only good thing in the whole story is you got a new kitchen.

>> Yeah. You all ever renovated a house while you lived in it? >> No. Uh we've done little uh we did a room over the garage, but it was so I guess Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. But it wasn't like It wasn't like a fullblown to where it was like interrupting everybody's lifestyle.

>> And my oldest daughter took her house all the way down and they but they moved out and lived somewhere else for a year.

>> Yeah, that makes sense >> because you just could she took it so far down she couldn't >> work on it. I mean couldn't live in it.

It was it wasn't habitable. So, um but they they did a massive deal and it's almost like building a dad gum house. It's a matter of fact sometimes it's easier to build a house >> uh in terms of how much of your >> brain power it takes up and those kinds of things. So yeah, folks, here's the deal. The best place, you've got a range

of 10 to maybe 20% uh price range of the

homes on your street, the homes in your neighborhood. And be thinking about the illustration I just used when you're thinking about buying a home. Um or you're thinking about doing a renovation. Okay, Dave, I want to put in a $25,000 pool. Okay, how many houses on your street have $25,000 pools? None.

You're getting ready to spend $25,000 that you will never see again. That's a lot of swimming because that thing you're not going to increase the value of the house. No. Okay, Dave. 60% of the homes already have a pool. We're going to add a pool.

The the pools are very nice in our neighborhood and $25,000 is or 50,000 or

whatever the deal is. You can spend a million on a pool. But um but uh you

know, so does it fit the neighborhood?

Otherwise, it's consumption.

And you really can't justify consumption at those levels. You're better off to move. And and so um when you're buying a

home, try to buy in the bottom 25% of the price range. That is going to go up

more cuz think about everybody buying a

$500,000 house in a wants to buy in a h

in a neighborhood that's 500 to 700.

Nobody buying an $800,000 house wants to buy in a neighborhood that's 500 to 700.

So, it's harder to sell and consequently does not appreciate in value as much.

And so, you want the full appreciation and you want the ease of selling it. And if you're in the bottom 25% of the price range in your neighborhood, when you're finished with your renovation or when you purchase or when you do whatever, that's the sweet spot. But when you're in the top of the neighborhood or over the top of the neighborhood, you're you could get stuck in the thing. And if you build an unusual floor plan, you're just about guaranteeing you're going to get stuck in it.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Ron is in Indianapolis.

Hey, Ron. How are you?

>> I'm good, sir. How you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yeah, so uh I'm getting married spring and my fiance said I should probably give you guys a call for some advice. I have recently lost my job and I am in a

lot of credit card debt and we're also trying to plan a wedding. So, we're trying to figure out um the best way forward. The question is um should I dig

into my IRA account and take that money

to pay off on my credit cards for more cash flow?

>> What What was your job?

>> I was a uh construction project manager.

>> And what were you making?

about 75,000 a year.

>> And why did you lose your job?

>> Laid off. >> Why?

>> I have no idea to be honest with you.

>> They're not making money. >> I got told uh No, I do have um veterans

disability coming in. It's about $4,000 a month. >> No, I said they are not making money.

Was the company you were working for hurting financially?

>> I don't think so. Um, they let a team of

us go and said, "We just have to cut

some costs." So, I'm assuming we didn't see the big picture, just

>> commercial or construction?

>> Construction. >> I said commercial or residential, I'm sorry. >> Oh, um, commercial.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. And when did you get fired?

>> I got back in August. So, it's been

about a month. And what have you been doing since then?

>> I have been um going to school and uh

applying for jobs like crazy.

>> Talk about the jobs you've been applying for and what you did.

>> So, I've been applying for more project management positions um specifically in IT because that is my uh education

background and I've had a few interviews. Um I had one today that was pretty successful. I'm hoping and praying that that goes further.

>> Okay. >> And what's the schooling? And were you doing the schooling while in the other job?

>> My current schooling, I'm getting a master's degree in information and communication. Um, and yes, I was going

to school while working that job.

>> And you have no physical disabilities that that would hamper you from doing this work?

>> Correct.

Okay. Um, no, I would not cash out your

retirement. I'd get a job. I'd get six jobs.

And and and then when you get a real job, get rid of five of the six,

>> but I'd be working like a crazy man doing everything I could because you got to pay for a wedding and you got to keep the dog the thing afloat without start starting to cash out your retirement. You cash out retirement, you're going to get hit with a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. It's like borrowing money at 40% interest because you didn't get off your butt and go get a job. The good news is you are off your butt and you have been looking and you did get an actual interview.

So that's great news.

yeah, you you are moving your feet in the right direction. So that's the direction. That's the answer. And if you don't land something in the next two weeks and start working like for 75 or 80 or 100,000 um then you need to be delivering pizzas and um uh walking dogs

and cutting grass and cleaning toilets or whatever you've got to do to start making some money.

>> Yeah. >> But no, don't cash this stuff out. Go make money. >> Okay. >> Go make money. Work, work, work. Doing something. Side hustles, anything. and get the wolf away from the door because it's causing you to uh think weird like you're you're your whole question is based on I'm defeated and I'm not going to allow you to be defeated.

When's the wedding again?

>> Uh May 30th next year.

>> And who's paying for it?

>> We are. >> Okay. And how much is the wedding?

Um, we have cut it down to about

$15,000. >> Good. Very conservative. And you've got how much in credit card debt?

>> I have roughly $70,000.

>> Okay. So, $85,000 changes your whole

life.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And once I quantify it that way, you're a project manager. I start looking at it like start looking at it like a project.

Okay. How do we go get $85,000? What must be true? and what period of time and what's reasonable and I'm going to work it on the side and I'm going to uh oh by the way you should be doing that that's what you ought to be doing is get some IT stuff some side hustle there because all kinds of that you can pick up a freelance immediately on contract work and start start helping people with IT whatever it is where hardware software issues but aside from that I'm you know I I just set the goal I put eight it's like I'm building a building all right what's the bu what's the pro process well I need a budget I need a plan and I need a And I'm going to plug the contractors, the subs into the schedule.

And I'm going to plug them into the budget. And then we're going to execute and push every domino. And when one domino refuses to fall, we're getting a new domino. In other words, the sub doesn't show, we get a different one.

Or he comes in, decides he's going to double his bid. No, that's not how this works. We have a bid. We're going with it.

And we hold to the project and we push push push push push.

$85,000 in two years is 65 is uh I'm

sorry, 425 a year. So, 4,000 bucks a

month, >> right? That's what I need >> above my living expenses. And I'm out of this whole thing in two years. I paid for the wedding and I paid off all the credit cards.

And uh that's not counting the fact that you're going to have a dual income after May 31st. I'm just making I'm just showing you an example. You just How do you eat an elephant? A bite at a time.

But now we've got to go get the money to do that. And that involves the Yeah. >> getting employed. >> And if this is a big if uh you can pause the M's program, I'd pause it.

I don't know if he can, but if he can, I would because that'll still be out there. And right now, everything now is about getting out of debt, paying this wedding, paying for this wedding. Uh the master's degree is always going to be there. >> Creating a sustainable situation, and that means income.

>> That's right.

Here's what's going to be weird, Ron. A as you add income to this equation,

whether it's four side hustles combined to make a full-time job while you're looking for the full-time job or a full-time job plus four side hustles, as you add income, every time you add income to this equation, your confidence level is going to go way up.

>> And it's going to be associated with your level of activity and and you know, and then you're going to be much more uh appealing in an interview.

>> Yeah, it's exactly right. activity is absolutely the key when you get let go.

There's all kinds of data out there about it's the same thing emotionally as losing a loved one. So, you have to acknowledge that wait a second whether I was a group of people or not and whether I did anything wrong or not, if it was just a layoff, in this case it's an economic layoff or or the company's economics, it still hurts and and so activity is the key. Still feeling valuable because you are providing value

and getting paid for it. Dave, you're absolutely right on that. That's the best thing one can do. Lick your wounds for a day or two at most and then get

back into it and stay active.

>> So, let's give him a copy of both books of Ken's uh or two of Ken's books anyway. Uh the proximity principle, which will help you in the job search.

Yeah. >> And uh finding the work you're wired to do. Take the assessment in that and verify that you're in the right >> field and that you're heading into the right mindset. And both of those are a gift to you, Ron. And uh we'll just call it an early wedding gift. How's that? Um yeah, I'm going to I'm going to fix this with income, not with cashing out my retirement. That does things for your heart, your soul, and your future. The cashing out the retirement does the opposite, too.

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john's in Madison, Wisconsin. Hey John, how are you?

>> Good afternoon Dave and Ken. How are you doing today? better than we deserve.

What's up, >> wonderful? So, I either need confirmation of how I'm feeling or I need a kick in the shorts. Um, my wife and I are trying to decide if I should quit working. Well, kind of, at least for a time. So, every weekend and during

many work nights, I do admin, property management, and accounting and HR work for my wife's small business and our we

have a few side hustles, mainly rental real estate. But during the day, I'm I daylight as a manager at a construction company where I average 40 hours a week over the year, but that emphasis is on the average. Winter is really easy, but the rest of the year I'm just running on fumes. Um, between my business, my

wife's business and our rental and remodel side hustles, I work, you know, 25 hours more just during nights and weekends. And I'm always behind. I feel like I need another 5 to 8 hours a week to catch up. If I hire out all that

extra that I do, we estimate we'd add about 83 grand in expense, more or less, depending on the project load. I make

120 a year with bonuses to 40. My wife

makes between 4 and 500,000 a year, um,

which has been lower because we've had four kids in the last 5 years and and she's been on maternity leave for parts of all of that. This year we're shaping up around 592 if we don't make She's an attorney >> and you're running the business ops side of the law office.

>> Exactly. Right. Admin, HR, anything that

>> How many team members at her law office?

How many work for her?

>> Five members counting her.

>> Okay.

There's not a ton of HR of five people, but uh >> just payroll uh you know every two weeks and >> Yeah, that's accounting. Yeah.

>> Yep. >> How much does your side How much does your side work make spin-off for you

>> for for 2025? We're looking at 42,000.

>> Okay. So, if you if she paid someone 80

to be her admin or office manager,

uh, and instead paid you to be the office manager and you went down there and went to work for 80k and you made

40k with the side stuff. That's 120. And

then she makes 4 to 500 on top of that.

Right. >> That's exactly right. >> Okay. >> It I just it I just love working and I

don't like to admit that I don't have enough hours in the day and I just don't know if I'm being >> Well, you did admit it. You just gave us a very detailed breakdown.

>> Yeah. >> You just you what you don't want to admit is you think you need a Superman cape or something and I don't think that's necessary. >> What's the quandry? Why'd you call us?

What what would you rather do? Be the

office manager for the law firm or

do the what's your your construction work during the day? Which one do you like doing? >> I I like doing the other one. I want to do the side hustles. I think that helps our life. You know, I can we got four kids that, you know, in five years they'll stop destroying the house, but for the next five years it's hard to keep up with just the life, you know, laundry and eating healthy and all that

stuff. But it feels like I >> house husband was not in this equation until just now.

>> No, no, no. I I that wouldn't be what I would be doing. I'd be doing the 25 hours of work plus the eight hours I think I need in addition to >> Yeah. You're going to have an office at the law firm and you're going to get up and take a shower and go in at 8:00 every day. >> Yes. Exactly. >> And work there all day long and from that home base run the side hustle as well. And then both of you are going to go home at 5:30 to be with the kids.

>> Exactly. You're right. Spot on.

>> Yeah. This is not We're not working from home. This is not remote. You're going to go down there and run the freaking law firm and it needs to be run much better due to you being there and become much more profitable.

So, you ought to be cutting expenses and help the other attorneys increase revenue, billable hours. >> Yep. >> Correct. Yep.

Okay. >> That's exactly what I want to do. And it wouldn't be at 8. It'd probably be at 5:30 in the morning and, >> you know, >> Yeah.

be able to be home earlier and and do those things because right now the >> I mean you basically got two jobs. Which one do you want to keep is what it amounts to and I think you've already decided. But I don't think you keep both. It's not sustainable and there's no reason.

>> Yeah.

>> It does it doesn't prove anything.

Listen, if you don't have a shortage of money, working 100 hours a week doesn't prove anything.

That's what I gota that's kind of the paradigm shift to wrap the head around.

>> So I think I think you you know let's commit to increasing the value of the law firm as a result of you being there.

Commit to the side hustle becomes increased in value as a result of you being there more fully. And u so you end

up moving from 120 to you know $150,000

worth of value that you're adding to the equation. And and then she's making the 4 to500 and y'all are killing it. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I' I'd quit.

>> All right. >> But I'm going to work. But I'm going to work down there. >> I'm not doing this from my bedroom >> with my slippers on. >> Yeah. It's I I just sense that you're still struggling with this. You know, this is this is right. Um >> what's what's holding you back? >> Something's there.

>> It's it's the it's a classic uh gazelle

intensity and no not knowing when to let off. You know, we we in the last 5 years, we charged into baby step five, six, and seven. And and how do we let off the gas? You know, >> this is it.

This is how >> can I also say that I I don't know that this is what you feel, so I don't mind being wrong, but I just have a hunch that you're a good dude and you believe in hard work and hard work is a part of not just your identity, but I would say your value system.

like you're mailing it in while the wife is making big money and you're having a hard time with that. That's what I think's really going on. Am I right or wrong? >> You're very right. Yep. >> So, so I thought so. >> You should do this for a living, Ken. Yeah, that's >> Well, I' I've talked to a few people here. Here's what I think then. Okay.

So, thank you for being honest about that. What Dave laid out for you is not

a guy who is mailing it in and letting his big shot wife lawyer bring home the

bacon. That's not what we heard from you. Nor is it what Dave prescribed. So the narrative needs to be, hey, I'm actually going to cut back on this other gig to inmeasurably improve our life.

And what I'm doing as the husband, as the man, I am making a massive change,

which will also be a massive contribution. You believe that? I heard you say it. So that's what the focus is.

>> So I get it. I completely see where you're coming from. But you got to change your focus. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's um I'm able to add

enough value to this situation that it makes sense. And that's what it comes down to. And that's what we did. And I'm doing that. And I'm not cloaking this in some weird work life balance crap or um

or or this is an excuse to be remote or

all that. It's not it's none of that.

This is it's not you hiding at all. This is you stepping into uh another thing but much more fully. And um yeah, you

got your lack of focus. You're probably not doing great at either job. And all

of a sudden, when you start doing great at this job, I think you're going to see an increase in revenue and uh net profits anyway, whether it's reduced expenses or increased revenue, uh on both the side hustle and the law firm, just because you're freaking paying attention all day long and you've had a good night's rest. >> Yeah. There's an old phrase, I think they made it one of those cheesy successory posters once. If you chase two rabbits, you lose them both.

And and that's there's some great wisdom to that. You know, there's just only so much you can do with divided. >> I've never even caught one. What are you talking about?

>> If you chased a rabbit and caught it. No, >> I've shot him, but I've never chased one down.

>> I know. I said it was cheesy, but it's an old phrase. A lot of truth.

>> All right. Yeah, that's I mean, you can't you can't you know, tough to serve two masters. >> Yeah. >> We should say if you chase two rabbits, you're going to be double frustrated.

>> Got to prove how slow you really are.

>> Yeah. Oh.

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[Music]

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not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Hannah in Minnesota. I worked for a small business for 30 years until it was sold a few months ago. I still worked for the company under the new owner.

My former employer surprised me recently by telling me that because of the part I played in his success, he will be gifting me $25,000 next month. I am not his employee anymore, so no taxes will be taken out. I've researched this scenario but can't find an answer on how I deal with this when it comes to tax time. Is it called a gift or should I ask for a 1099?

It is not really compensation in terms of me working for it. I want to avoid tax problems if at all possible.

expertise. What do you think on that one? >> I would sit down with a Ramsey tax pro, an ELP, an endorsed local provider under the Ramsey trusted program and get an actual piece of advice. My opinion just reading this is it's a gift. You don't have to do anything.

>> Now, the gift is large enough that it does trigger a gift tax, but that's on him, not you.

And so, if he tries to claim this as an expense in his business, then that's

compensation.

It's not a gift because a business can't give an give a gift and write it off as

an expense unless it gives it to a nonprofit the the um a 501c3, right? And

so if he if if you give a gift to an individual from the business, it is not an expense.

But that's not up to you. All it's up to you is you got a gift. Somebody gave you $25,000. It's that simple. Uh, I don't think it's taxable, but you should double check with um you might

here's the problem. If he claims it

as an expense, he has to issue a 1099.

>> Does it matter that this is probably coming from the proceeds? >> It is. It's coming from the proceeds. Yeah, it doesn't matter. But he still he he's he could claim it as a business expense and say, you know, I'm just paying out um some of the old employees.

Okay. and claim it on $1099. If he pulls a 1099 on it, now you got a compensation issue. Now you got to pay taxes on it, >> right? >> But if he just simply sent you a gift, Merry Christmas from an individual to an

individual because you don't work for him anymore. Um, that's not taxable.

>> So, uh, >> shockingly not. >> Yeah. Again, it is taxable on him if he

hasn't done hadn't got some tax advice on how he does this. So, anyway, wow.

Hannah's in Missouri. Hey Hannah, what's up in your world?

>> Hey Dave and Ken, glad to be on here.

>> Well, good to glad to have you. How can we help? >> Yeah, so my husband and I are newlyweds.

We've been married for just shy of four months and we come from very different worlds when it comes to money. I'm a pastor's kid number four, like no money

in the family and he's an only child and

comes from a lot more money than I do.

and um his we are still in that weird

transition of out of just getting out of college, still young enough to be on parents' health insurance. And I'm

wanting to find the best way as a wife to encourage my husband to become fully

separated from his parents financially.

I know that that's the healthiest, the smartest, the wisest decision. Um but they still are very much like, "Hey, you need something, just call us. Give us a call and we'll pay for it here. We'll pay for it there." and wanting him to stay on everything for as long as he can to soak up all the money he can and I

have not had that luxury. So, I'm trying to find the best way to go about that conversation, I guess.

Well, I think there's two or three issues. One is them giving you cash or buying items for you. Um, two is staying

on health insurance. Uh, three is staying on their Netflix plan and their cell phone bill and furnishing a cell phone or something like that. That's the kind of stuff that you people usually look at, >> you know, not not getting rid of that uh

those kinds of things. So, um,

so what does he say when you talk to him about this?

>> Um, sometimes he's like, "Well, they're just being nice. Like, it's okay." um if

it's a really big thing that we need help with, he's like, "Well, just let them help." And I personally am just like, "Uh, hey, we can go without and struggle through this without um having the extra help because >> like give me an example of a big thing." >> Um for me it would be furniture. Um I'm used to living in an unfernished house until you can get it right. But they hear, "Oh, he wants a bookshelf or wants a couch or whatever." And they're like, "Well, let's just buy it. Let's just buy whatever he wants." And I'm like, "Well, no, we don't have the money, so let's just wait." And um that I guess that's an easy example.

>> Yeah, that that does.

Okay. And you've been married a year?

>> No, just shy of four months.

>> Oh, four whole months. >> We're not even there yet. >> When you when you say that to him, does he does he dig in as to asking you why

do you feel that way? I get why he says what he says, but I'm curious, does he lean in a little bit to understand where you're coming from?

>> Yeah, he understands that. um uh why

independence really matters to me. Um I think it's just all new to him. Uh he lived with his parents up until we got married. So he had not been independent until about he's 24. Um he had gone to

college and they're just like this my baby boy so let him stay for as long as possible. And I'm like >> well the good the good news is the good news is they're very kind people. They're very generous people.

>> They're not toxic about it. They're just being overly helpful.

>> You're not describing bad people. You're describing sweet people, but they are violating boundaries. And you guys are not able to have the dignity of a standalone house. And you're missing that dignity.

>> Yeah. >> And they they don't even realize they don't even realize they're doing that. They they're really these people are not there. There's no malice in anything you've described.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I I think you just continue to talk to him and say, "Honey, um I'm not

okay with us not having the dignity of a standalone situation. The only way we need a couch in here is if we buy a couch or if there was a special moment and they said, "Okay, for Christmas, we're going to furnish the living room for you." Okay, that's an okay thing.

>> But that's a Christmas. That's not just every time you had a wish, they send the stuff start showing up on your porch.

>> You know that that's we don't need that.

I think it eats away at my pride a little bit because I'm used to being independent. Yeah, it does. It does.

>> I'm not used to that. But I think you described that perfectly there. >> But I think I think you need to set your pride aside when it's an honest and a clear gift >> versus a pattern.

>> That makes sense. >> Like for instance, Christmas or for instance, they say, "Hey, the whole family's going on a trip next year. We're paying for everybody. Set your pride aside and go." >> Mhm. >> Okay. That's right. If they want to pick up dinner, same deal. >> Yeah. Mom and dad, they're old. they got money. They want to buy dinner when they take you out. I buy dinner for my kids.

My kids got plenty of money.

>> Um but it that's just a that that's okay. I mean I >> Okay. >> Uh you know, you do some of those things, but that but the what what is those should be oneoffs and individualized situations, not a pattern. And what you're dealing with is a pattern that your husband needs to respect >> your desire for some uh individuality,

some dignity on. >> Yeah. And so, honey, it's really, really important to me that we have our own Netflix account. It's really, really important to me that we have our own cell phone. And it's really important to me that when you turn 25, we move the health insurance. And we've got a plan to do that, and we lay it all over there. Until then, we can ride this one.

It's really, really important to me that we just don't randomly get things from them every time we had a wish.

>> Sometimes some generosity in individual

holidays or birthdays or gifts or trips or something. We can look at those things. But this pattern of they support

us, I can't deal with it. Eats my guts

out.

>> And you you could tell him that. He can hear that. >> Yeah. >> That's a good way to approach it. I like that. >> Yeah. So, I left when I left home, um I

was more in your camp >> and it was like, >> yeah, >> good luck.

>> You're on your own.

>> Sink or swim. >> You know, if if you really get super hungry, call two days in advance. We'll have some some spaghetti on the stove when you get here. But other than that, you're on your own, right? My wife, on the other hand, was her family was more like your husband's family and very kind people, very generous, and and a lot wealthier. And um I couldn't stand it.

He owned a market, a convenience market,

and when we would go in at Thanksgiving, all the kids filled up their cars with gas. >> Oh, wow. >> To go back home. And it drove me nuts, just like it's driving you nuts. But but it's like that was a little gift, a little something that was but they grew up going to the market and getting gas their whole lives cuz he owned a market the whole I mean but now when you're 26 you should probably quit getting free gas from dad you know. It's like golly.

[Music]

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[Music]

John's in Minnesota. Hi, John. How are you? >> I'm doing great today. How are you guys?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> That's great. I uh say I am currently

dating a woman. We've been dating for two and a half years and we plan to get married and all of that good stuff and we've already talked about finances and we're going to join him together and we're on the same page about that. So, that's all good. Um the question that I have is that we are both currently homeowners.

Um she operates we both operate businesses out of our homes. She has a salon built into hers. And then I do it stuff uh 30 hours a week. And then I'm also a musician, so I play about three times a week as well.

And so when we get married, um obviously, you know, we only need one house. So I'm trying to figure out what to do. I there's not enough room for me to office out of that house as well. Uh she has four children and so I won't be able to move all my stuff and all my music gear and all that fun stuff there.

So I do currently have a roommate that's helping with the mortgage.

then if I do sell the house what could I do with the money and then rent an office?

>> So there's not room for you to move everything you do into her house with her salon and her four kids.

>> That's correct. Yeah. There's not even enough rooms for all the kids. One of them sleeps in the big main room in the basement, has his own little corner, and he's happy. But yeah, there's not even enough bedrooms for everyone to fit.

>> Okay.

Uh, what's your home worth?

>> My home uh is roughly worth around $170,000 and I owe about 7172 on it. And so

there's a decent chunk of equity in there. But I do also uh I have an equity

loan out right now to my ex-wife uh for 24,000. So it's probably down to about 22 now. Mhm. Okay.

Um Okay. So, what would Let's see. You you you do it work from home.

>> Yeah. So, I'm a service desk tech and so a lot of what I do is based out of the house. I get the tickets. I'm kind of the first line response and then we can remote into a lot of different clients that we have and help them. Otherwise, I do go on site, but I do need an office of some sort.

>> And that uh you don't need an office for your music.

No, but I do have a lot of gear associated with it. Uh, I do a little bit of recording. Most of the revenue from the business comes from actual performances and so there's a small SUVs

worth of equipment essentially that I also need to store and load and load out all the time, too.

>> Okay. And there's not garage room at her house for that.

>> There's a garage, but it would need some substantial work in order to become a little bit more proof from the elements and stuff. We're in Minnesota. I don't know if you've been up here. It's a little cool colder in December here than it is in Nashville. >> Heard the rumor. Yeah.

>> What uh what is the uh mortgage on the

house that you own? >> You said uh 71 >> 70 >> and then has No, no. What's the payment?

Sorry. I'm looking I'm going somewhere with this. The monthly payment. What is that? >> The payment is 960. So it's not a large

payment at all. >> And the reason I'm asking that is if you play this out the way you laid it out, I'm wondering what would it cost you to rent a small office space?

So yeah, I started investigating that and um in the downtown area here, it would be about 550 to get an office and then it could be first floor and stuff too and I would have 24/7 access to so

when I need to access it to load and unload gear for the weekend gig.

>> Oh, so you could also store the stuff there as well.

>> That's what they're telling me. I haven't had a chance to tour yet. I'm kind of >> where I was going next. The next question I was gonna ask you is what's going to cost you for a very small storage unit to store the stuff. I'm I'm looking at at least run through those numbers if I'm you to go if I sell the house, clear my debt, and you know, my expenses actually can go down. In other

words, I'm not paying a mortgage anymore over there. >> How much is your roommate paying you?

>> 550.

>> So, your net out of pocket's about 400 and if you keep the house.

>> Correct. Just for the house. But then, you know, double up on utility bills and all that if I rent an office. As far as I saw that they were communicating to me, I won't have to pay for internet or your air conditioning or any of that fun stuff. >> Mhm.

>> I I think the office is a better play because I think it simplifies your life.

I think keeping the old house is a more complicated thing and it's going to take up more head space while you're trying to learn to be married to a lady with four kids who runs a beauty salon >> and um and while you're trying to run your business and everything, you've got one more thing to deal with and that's roommate and all this other stuff. And I think it I think it's just the cleanliness of it, the simplicity of it of being in the office feels really good.

>> And that's kind of what I'm leaning towards as well, too. I've had the house. I signed the papers uh with my brother and my father the day after I turned 18. So I think >> a lot of my hesitation is probably sentimental. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, but it is, you know, we are turning the page to a different chapter in your life.

>> You're now going to be a married dude, you know, and so >> married dudes have different things.

>> Nothing wrong with that. >> This is true. >> Nothing wrong with that. >> Yeah. And you know, and I'm trying to let go of that side of it, too. And I don't really I'm I'm working through the baby steps right now. I'm uh I was up to my one my step one being complete, but I just had to get some >> How much debt do you have and stuff?

>> Uh not a whole lot. So I like I said, I do have a home equity loan. I have >> No, I got that. But I mean, how much debt other than the house do you have?

>> $6,000. Not very much at all.

>> Okay. So you can clear that too by selling the house.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. This advances you into baby step three pretty solidly. Does she have any debt, not counting the house?

>> She does. She has um some credit card debt and stuff like that too. And so just >> Yeah. You guys combining your finances, cutting up her credit cards and clearing all this debt with the sale of your house and moving into this office. Now I've got a whole another reason to do this. Yeah. Sell the house.

>> Okay. And >> yeah, and get out of debt, both of you, and you're both together or now unified.

And um this is the upon marriage, of course, we're talking about all of this.

And um then then we're, you know, we're combined and we're moving forward. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's the way to go. Lynn is in Ohio. Hi, Lynn. How

are you?

>> Hi there. Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, what's up is my son when he was around 18 uh co-signed for a car loan

with a girlfriend at the time who is now an ex-girlfriend. >> Wow, that was stupid.

>> It was really stupid. And I had no idea that this had happened because he didn't ask me about it before he did that or I would have said no way. Um so now of course they've gone their separate ways and um >> and she's not paying.

>> Well, not very well. >> Okay. Is the car is the car in his name or her name?

>> I believe it's in her name. >> Okay. Nothing he can do except talk her out of it.

>> Um well, we've tried that. was trying to encourage her to refinance um with another >> You tried to encourage her to refinance or he did?

>> I did. I I've I've talked to her and but she has since stopped communicating with me. >> Well, no kidding. Who wants to talk to you, >> right? >> You're completely interfering in something that isn't even yours.

>> Boy child needs to grow a backbone and call his ex and get this straightened out. He seen his mama in.

>> Well, I don't think she'll communicate with him either. >> Yeah. Well, that's that's the only one she should communicate with >> cuz that's going to keep him from suing her. >> But you got no footing in this.

>> He wants to file bankruptcy to get his

name off of >> No, he didn't file bankruptcy on a car that hadn't been repoed just cuz he's pissed at the ex-girlfriend. Let's Let's just take stupid and double it. No,

no, no, no, no, no. Mama, you got to stay out of this. This is not your play,

boy. child done made this bed, he gets to work in it. So, um yeah, he needs to

call her up. He he needs to get an attorney and uh tell her that if the car is not sold or refinanced in 30 days that he's going to sue her and ask the judge to force her to sell the car because she's not paying on time and she's destroying his credit. So,

wow. But, but you cannot this is not

your job. M >> let me tell you what if she didn't hang up on you in the first 30 seconds you were talking to her I there's something wrong with her she shouldn't have been I mean she who are you calling me that's

what she >> I'll tell you what this is this is that helicopter mom you know that hey I'm trying to help out my boy you know what are we doing here man this is this is the thing that's happening in this generation the parents are showing up in places >> that if our parents would have shown up in >> buddy of mine got himself into a mess when he was that age. And he called his dad, who was an old Marine sergeant. He said, "Dad, what do you think I ought to do?" And he goes, "If you're big enough to get yourself into this, you're big enough to get yourself out.

Call me and tell me how you did it." >> That's right.

Talk to you later.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality and number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Michael is in Seattle. Hey, Michael. What's up in your world?

>> Hi, Dave. Um, I am I'm a single parent

with um disabled children and I have

about 15,000 in Sally May loans and

80,000 in government student loans on the save plan. And um I've done Baby

Step One. I'm doing the Every Dollar app

um and that's going well and uh I've

been getting my hands on your your

advice and on your podcast about uh

student debt and how to try to improve

that. And uh I'm just looking for looking for some advice on on kind of what to do here.

>> Okay. You said you had you're a single dad of disabled children. Tell me about that. >> Yes sir. Um so I I take care of them and

I take care of their need and they have

um uh medical appointments you know

throughout the throughout each week that that I take care of. And >> what is the nature of their disabilities?

um intellectual disabilities,

um neuromot disabilities, all four

disabilities that uh all of them. Yeah,

all of them have a have a variety of of disabilities. >> Wow. And you have full-time custody?

>> Um I have um Yeah, full I have full

primary full primary custody.

>> What that mean? Does that mean you have them all the time or what's that mean?

>> Uh yeah, I have them I have them most of the time. Um I uh I don't have them for

um a few weeks in the summer and then uh

I split Christmas and spring break.

>> What do you make? What do you do for a living?

>> I um work as a care coordinator. So I help people get into assisted living homes. I help people get on uh a variety

of Medicaid waiverss and then I helped them get um disability supports and I um

currently am at an hourly rate and I'm working part-time. Uh but as I build my clientele, it moves to a commission and

it seems like the commission is actually a pretty good a pretty good commission.

Like for example, uh you know, part-time part-time commission is about 5,000 a month. uh full-time commission is uh

closer to 8,900 a month, but I'm not I'm not there yet.

>> Who's watching the kids when you're working?

>> Um I they're at school. Uh they're at

school and then um after school they're

watched by family. >> Okay.

>> So, what is the I'm just sitting here listening to this and it feels like you need more money. You need to make more money. >> Yeah, I need to make more money. That's >> what's the long term? What's the long term? Let's And you got a lot going on, but let's just assume that you could snap your fingers and do the thing you wanted to do and make more money. What is that >> at 8,900? When you get to that point, are you going to be okay?

>> I feel like I I would. Yes. Um uh it's a

it's a good job. Um there's a lot of potential for growth. Um, it takes four

to five years to really learn it. Um,

and I've been doing it for about a year part-time.

Um, >> why are you only part-time?

>> Uh, because um I'm taking care of taking

care of the the the children's, you know. >> Well, then how would you be able to be full-time?

>> Say that again. Sorry. How how are you going to be able to move to full-time?

>> Um, I've been I've been um

uh slowly adjusting my or increasing my

hours. I've been able to um

uh work work a little bit at night, uh work on the weekends from home.

>> Well, you told me you told me just a few minutes ago that the kids are in school and then when they're not in school, family's watching them. So that would tell me that you have time to work full-time.

>> Um they I have so so they get to school about um they get to school about 9:30

and then they're out of school about 4:30. Um and I commute I commute uh an

hour each way. Um, and so I'm working

um, Tuesday through Friday from about

11:30 to about 4:30 and then I need to pick them up by 5:30. So that's my work schedule.

>> Okay. So what glares to me is we need to

get a job locally uh, or two jobs, talk

to family. I mean, you've got to really step this game up here. the the the work situation you have is not helping you and four to five years to be able to make that.

>> You got to make way more money than that well beyond four to five years from now.

So, you need a new professional plan is what I'm trying to push at you.

>> So, are these children um adopted or

biological?

>> Uh biological. >> Okay. And is there a prognosis to be

self- sustaining as adults or will they always need care?

One of them will probably always need >> one. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> So, I I don't I don't know the answer to the equation unless there's some way you can do some of the work remote and some

from the actual office um to that allows

you to be there as much as you're trying to be there. Um and I I don't I don't know. You've got two things pulling at you that are both very valid things. And one of them is very valid is to make enough money to clean the mess up and have a sustainable life.

And two is to take care of these children. Um, and you're a great guy trying to figure out how to do both. And I don't have a great answer for you, but um, but bottom line is it what Ken said it earlier and you already knew that before you called, Michael, is this is a math problem and it's an income problem. And so what can we do?

we're how we're caring for these children or who's caring for the children or whatever? What can we do to

get you to get you in a position that you can make your 8,900 and that means

you're working full-time instead of part-time and uh I don't hear how you're getting there right now. So, but yeah, that the these it's not it's a it's a

terrible paradox to be stuck in between in between this. Uh but it's also one that it's that you know you're you've been appointed to solve this and um so

you've got to create some um income

while providing this care. And I don't have a magic wand. I don't know where to tell you. I wish I did. If there's anybody wanted to help today, it was you. Man, what a what a thing.

>> Yeah. I would just say simplify this.

We've got to find something from 9:30 to 5:30. we've got to get a job that doesn't require me to drive two hours a day. There are some things that can be changed here which will make this far uh

less hectic for you because you already got a hectic life. So simplifying so that you can then maximize your income is is the goal here without us giving you super specifics. That's the goal. So I'm thankful that the kids are in school, thankful that you got family to support you. That does give you a chance here even though I'm sure it feels really really hard. >> Yeah. uh you can get out of this.

>> It it is is a it is about arranging life

in such a way that you can make a living. >> Yeah.

[Music]

[Music]

Mary's in Colorado. Hi, Mary. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. Thank you, Mr. Ramsey.

Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Um, so I have a whole life policy and

I've been paying on it for the last 5 years. Um, it's got a cash value around

$35,000 currently, but I pay $792

a month. Um, I was looking to see about

cancelling that and cashing it out. The

only problem is the reason I ended up with the whole life policy was I had um

insurance, life insurance through my employer. Um, the employer did um a

relocation. I left the company and I had

it converted to a whole life due to medical cancer diagnosis previously. So

I couldn't qualify for any term life at the time. >> Are you single? >> Um no married. >> Oh okay. All right. And what is your income?

>> Um my income is 50,000 per year. My

husband is 150.

>> Okay. And how old are you too?

44. >> Okay. All right. And um

do you guys have any nest egg built? Any 401ks or anything like that?

>> Yeah, we have um 1.5 in retirement. Uh

500,000 liquid investments and then our

home is paid off 1.5.

>> Okay. So, if you had no life insurance

and died, your husband can probably struggle through

given that he's got given that he's got two or three million and $150,000 income.

>> Yeah, we originally got it because the kids were really young at the time, but now 5 years later and they're >> Well, you're self My point is you are self-insured. The purpose of life insurance is to replace lost income in the event someone is dependent upon your income. No one's dependent upon your income.

If you die, your husband's got $3 million and $150,000 income. Did I miss something?

>> No, but he I mean I guess if that happened um I was previously staying at

home, so he would then want to, you know, maybe make adjustments in his income, maybe not work, take care of the kids until they're grown.

>> Yeah. But he's got $2 million,

>> correct? Yeah. I think it'd be okay.

We're only 44, so we still have to >> I wasn't saying he was going to quit forever, and I wasn't saying we're going to drain the account, but my point is that your little whole life insurance policy is irrelevant financially, mathematically. Agreed.

>> Yeah. >> So, don't get don't get keep getting screwed by these people. Then cancel this thing.

>> Cancel it. And then >> take the $800 and build wealth with it.

>> You don't need term insurance. You don't need insurance.

If he loses your $50,000 income,

mathematically, >> he's okay.

>> I'm sure he'll cry, but mathematically he's okay.

>> Yeah. We would rather take that $792

a month and invest it in our >> Yeah. >> in our stock. >> Yeah. Absolutely. You'll make a whole lot more money.

>> If you had been doing it for the time you've been doing this, you'd have a whole lot more than 35,000. Agreed.

Agreed. And well, at the time we didn't have this um you know, we didn't have

that net worth.

>> I know. But >> over the last five years, we've paid off our house and you know, done others.

>> Yeah. You've done a really really good job, Mary. You guys are in great shape.

You don't need this policy.

>> Okay. >> That's what I'm saying. You understand why I'm saying that?

>> Yeah. because we're selfinsuring with our investments now and >> kind of things have changed in terms of um >> Yeah. And so we we have no need for >> the need for it. >> Just cancel it and put the $35,000 in a good investment and put the $800 a month into a good investment and quit getting screwed by these people. >> It's wonderful. It's a wonderful thing to get rid of these people.

>> I got nothing to add. I mean, you just have to realize the math on this and go, "Wait, >> so here's the thing. When you're 30 years old and you have no money and a bunch of debt. >> Yeah.

>> And you have three little kids, you need term life insurance to to cover the loss of your income because your family's dependent upon your income to eat. But fast forward 20 years and you're 53 years old and you have $2 million in your 401k and your house is paid for and the kids are grown and gone.

>> Yeah. And so the no one needs life insurance their whole life. Hello.

That's why they call it whole life. You know why they call it whole life? Because they want a commission from you their whole life. >> Yeah. >> That's why they call it whole life. Not cuz you need it for your whole life. You if if you need life insurance your whole life, it's cuz you did a crummy job with money.

Cuz you got none when you're old. You got a big pile of debt and no money saved. no investments when you're old because you didn't do a good job with money and then you will need life insurance to bury you and that's about it. But but you know the purpose of life

insurance is to cover you cover your family while you can't as soon as you can quit buying it life whether whether

it's term life or whole life but certainly whole life. >> This product is just nuts. 792 bucks a month. >> Yeah. And and $35,000 is all yield. I

mean it's just horrible.

>> Terrible. Just can you imagine what would Yeah. Anyway, yes, yes, yes. You You did good, Mary. And then cancel the policy.

Dalton in Detroit, Michigan. Hey, Dalton. What's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Uh, I'm in an interesting situation cuz mathematically this shouldn't work and historically this shouldn't work. So, I have a home. I've got about $190,000 equity. Me and my wife were looking at find buying a second home as a rental unit. So I go and to get a home equity line of credit, which just doesn't make any sense to me, but the bank will give it to us at a 5.1% interest versus

getting a mortgage on the second home.

It would be a 6.25%.

So it typically your your helocks or

your home equity line of credits are going to be greater interest.

Not necessarily.

>> Not not over investment property because investment property is not as is more risk for the bank than your personal residence is for the bank.

>> Gotcha. >> When they got your personal residence, they got you by the neck.

>> Yeah. That was my question is if I use a home equity line of credit and then something happens to the rental home, I don't want to lose my primary residence.

>> Versus if you mortgage, >> you will. And I wouldn't do that.

>> An LLC, you can only lose that property.

No, they can sue you for the deficit.

You're personally LLC's can't sign for a mortgage. You can put the property in an LLC's name, but you're still liable for the stupid mortgage. And if the house doesn't sell for enough at foreclosure to cover the mortgage, they're going to sue you for the deficit 100% of the time.

>> So, they'll still come take your home.

So overall, you know, that's the reasoning for these interest rates, which is, I guess, why you called, but you're going to get something more than you called for, and that is don't do this deal.

You don't have the money to buy a rental, and you shouldn't buy one.

>> So, the home we're looking at is about 75. Like, there's three options. And we have about 90,000 cash. It's in Detroit

and the area that's being revitalized.

Wait, >> I'm sorry. you have 90,000 in cash and the h and the home is 75,

>> right? But it's in the revitalation area of Detroit and so typically it's been

appreciating the area. >> I know. Do you have to spend money on it after you buy it?

>> Uh I'd have to spend about 15 to 20.

>> Okay. So why won't you just pay cash for it?

>> Because that is our like that's our nest

egg for >> Oh, because of the risk. repairs to Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you're trying to ignore the fact there's risk by borrowing money and instead you're adding risk by borrowing money.

>> That's true. >> This is a form of financial denial.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt, buddy.

Yeah. You're trying to hide this from yourself and act like it didn't happen.

Please don't buy this house. You're I can't stop him. He's going to do it. Forget it.

Heat.

[Music]

Heat. [Music]

Ry's in Missouri. Hi, Randy. How are you?

>> Oh, I'm absolutely peachy. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. Brandy, what's up?

>> Um, I am trying to find the way with as

much grace and kindness and love as possible to get my mother-in-law on her

feet and out of the camper in our backyard.

>> Wow.

>> Cousin Eddie's in the backyard.

>> And it's your mother-in-law. Wow.

>> How long has she been there? Yes.

>> Three years >> in a van down by the river. Oh my gosh.

>> Wow. So, how did this how did this come about?

>> Um, well, we moved here from North Dakota uh in 201.

>> We did the same thing. Spent three months in a camper on my mom's property, but we're on top of employment and housing right away. And we're in a home in 3 months. We purchased our first home when we've got five kids that we did it with too, by the way. Um, >> so wait a minute. You spent time on her property? >> No, my mom. My >> Oh, your mom. Okay.

>> My mom. Yeah. >> And a camper. >> And Yes. Yep.

>> With five kids. >> And Yes. But we're at my mom's place.

She had them in the house half the time. They've got 20 acres. Plenty of room to run around, play in the pond. >> And And so you were there for how long?

>> 3 months. >> Okay. And then you bought a place of your own. And how did your mother-in-law end up on your place?

>> So, she waited to follow us down because it's uh was a single mom only child situation with my husband and her.

>> Mhm. >> And she was about a year and a half after we did it. She was like, "Oh, I think I'll do that sounds like a good idea. It worked really well for you." She came down was in the camper.

Here she is. And I don't know how to broach the conversation at this point.

>> Well, it's not with her. That's with your husband.

>> Yeah, I've I've had that with him as well. Um and he he struggles there.

>> He's the problem, not her. She's the symptom.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He has a hard time telling his mom, "Hey, >> I love you, but it's time to Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Shocking. There's been some >> So, basically, this lady didn't really even ask permission to move on the property. She just kind of told y'all she was doing it." >> No, no, no. Well, it was a conversation, but we expected her to be quicker about it and do similar to what we did.

>> Did you have an agreement that she would be quicker about it?

>> No. I mean, to be completely fair on our end of things, no, you just said that.

>> You want to come down, put the camper back there, that's okay. And that was the whole discussion.

>> Yep. >> And no one's ever correct her. So, she actually she actually doesn't think she's doing anything wrong.

>> Uh, I mean, I I have I lost my mind on

her once. I said some not so nice things. So, I'm trying to go about it more politely this time. >> Yeah. How long ago was that?

>> Uh, year and a half. Oh, no, no, no, wait. No, that wasn't a year and a half.

I did that. No, it was a year and a half ago. >> And your husband couldn't have been thrilled with that either. Yeah.

>> No, cuz he was there when I started it and he walked away and put his hands off and >> So, now you're a year and a half removed from You lost your mind on her. Number one, she didn't move. Number two, your husband didn't force the issue. And number three, you're more pissy now than you were then.

>> Actually, I'm less pissy.

>> Um. >> Wow. >> Wow. I would That's pretty heavy on the pissy category, but yeah. All right. So, the uh on the on the pissy spectrum, but the uh uh >> how old is she?

>> 63. >> Oh. And she has no money.

>> Yeah. >> Nope. >> Okay. So, what makes you think she can move and into Why do you think she can move into a sustainable situation when she has no money?

>> She's working kind of. I think I mean I

know she works part-time cleaning houses and that's that's part of my issue is so

I work in a middle school. I'm a paraprofessional. Um and over the summer I'm home all summer and I was kind of tracking like how often are you leaving?

What are you doing? And she's got

cleaning jobs that she does, but it's not very much. I think max 20 hours a week. >> Yeah.

>> And I don't know how to brooach with like I don't know how to say it lovingly cuz I don't want I want attention to be gone. >> You're you're on the you're way up on the pesy pissy spectrum.

>> So you can't say anything loving. No, I am not. The problem is yes, you are.

There's nothing loving going to come out of your mouth. >> So um you and besides that, it's not your job. It's your wimpy husband's job.

you enjoy. See, you enjoyed that too much. >> You can't do it >> because it won't work if you do it. No, there is nothing you can say or do that's going to work. The only thing that's gonna work if you want her to move is for him to have a conversation that says, "Mom, I'm gonna help you get a place and you're gonna have to get your hours up and um by by the time

Christmas gets here, you're going to be hanging uh your stockings in another place or whatever it is. I don't care what the date is, but he needs to sit down with his mom. He needs to have a conversation. We were not planning to do this forever. Um, and we need to look at

a timeline where you I'll help you get things going and uh let's figure out an apartment and let's get the camper sold or let's find you a little piece of ground and let's get your hours up so you have a sustainable life. She's not asking you all for money, is she?

>> No. Um, and I've which one of my suggestions to him was I think that we should ask her for rent.

>> No. And you don't want her to stay.

>> No. Don't ask people for rent that will pay it.

>> Okay. Okay, fair enough. My my thing was after x amount of time of asking for rent saying, "Okay, here's a lump sum.

Not it for >> you just wanted something that felt righteous in this whole deal." And so you don't want >> I'm not I'm not going to help you with that at all. I'm just going to be practical and look that your husband has to handle this and he has to sit down and have a personal quiet conversation with his mom. And if he doesn't have a backbone, he can run down to all Walmart and pick one up on aisle three and sit down and go, "Mom, uh, we got to get you a thing that's a better life for you than a trailer in my backyard.

Now, let's figure out where we can get you a place and let's figure out how many hours a month you got to work to get that done and I'll help you with your budget and even if he, you know, and I'll help you get the trailer sold so you got some money to move and so on." But you do not want >> the budget. >> I'm sorry.

She knows what she's doing with everything. >> She will if your husband sits down and says, "Mom, if you don't do this, you have to leave anyway." >> She has asked us for help and recommendations on things like what do I do with my car? And then when we give her legitimate recommendations, like slaps them all down. I have come up with lists of low-inccome and senior housing, different apartments, and said, "Hey, here's some good options. Hey, here's some good options for this. Here's some good options." >> You haven't heard everything I said.

>> I have. You he said my husband >> you came up with all these options. You

are the wicked witch of the west in her eyes. She does not want anything to do with any suggestion that comes out of your mouth. You need to quit. Stop. You need to stop doing this. You're no help.

You're a problem. You're not a help.

Your husband, however, needs to take the list that you came up with and go sit with his mother without you around. You don't even need to be in the county when he does this.

like four counties over at happy hour

while he handles his mom. You cannot fix

his She ain't listening to you. She had listened to you in a decade. I can promise you. She's had it with you like you've had it with her. This is not You have no grounds for persuasion with this woman. She does not think you have her best interest at heart. You know why?

Cuz you don't. >> No. No. Not at all.

>> So, we don't think you're a bad person. We just hear a person who's exhausted.

>> You're over it. You have none of those left to give. >> Trying to fix this. >> All right. Yeah. >> The only way you're going to fix this is install a backbone in your husband so baby boy deals with his mommy.

>> Yeah. >> That's what's going to have to happen.

>> It's the only thing you can do. And then stand back and watch and hopefully he'll wander over there and get it done.

Probably not at the speed you would have. >> Yeah. >> But that's your only shot, Brandy. You can't come up with any more solutions.

This a marriage problem. You and your hubs got to get together because you're a couple cocktails away from a Jerry Springer episode

and and I you know none of us are above it but I think you were on your last nerve and I get it. >> It's funny though. >> It's hilarious. >> Yeah. Goodness gracious. Yeah. Hey, by

the way, that's a good recipe for everybody regardless of how pissy you are, okay? or how far up the pissy spectrum you are is how about you let

you the the do not fix the in-laws. Let

the blood relative of the in-laws do the fixing and you stand back with suggestions way in the distance. Yeah.

>> And don't let them even think the suggestion came from you. That's always a good idea.

[Music]

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[Applause] Heat. Heat.

Our

[Music]

scripture of the day, Romans 13:1, let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. PJ O said,

"Giving money and power to the government is like giving whiskey and cars to teenage boys."

True statement. Yes, it is. If you're buying or selling your home, it's a big deal. You will want an expert. Oh, yeah.

Rates are coming down. It looks like, boys and girls, you're going to want somebody in your corner if you're going to list that house or sell that house that is an expert in real estate. Not someone got their license 3 weeks ago and is your aunt Sally. Bad idea. Bad

idea. Yeah, Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust. Make your home a blessing, not a burden. You can compare agent profiles, interview them, choose the right one to work with among several that we have vetted for you. Find a local Ramsey

trusted real estate pro for free at

ramseyolutions.com/agent or click the link in the show notes.

Kevin's in California. Hi Kevin, how are you? >> Hi. How are you doing? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, yeah, I had a question. I'm um I got

divorced a few years ago. I'm kind of uh my my spouse used to handle the finances, so I'm kind of a late bloomer financially. Uh I'm going to be uh I got about a year to go at my work before I'm eligible to retire and get a pension.

And um basically, I would be making the same money with combination of the pension and my social security as I am making now. >> How old are you? Uh, I'm 63.

>> Okay. So, you're going to retire at 64.

>> Yeah, I was hoping to. I mean, I might still do something else, you know, but >> What do you make? >> I was hoping I make about 66,000 a year.

>> Okay. And what are you going to do with the rest of your life?

>> Um, well, I have Gee, I didn't think of that.

I would like to, you know, spend time with my my kids and and, you know, do something. I mean, I I definitely want to work or do something positive and um

just also be able to pay my bills. Um I

I do have a house. Uh I owe $418,000 on

it. It's worth about a million. I have a uh $60,000 helock and a $10,000 credit cards. And my question is if when I

retire, do you think it's okay if I pay off the uh helock and the credit cards with money from my IRA and 457 plan?

>> How much is in there?

>> Uh combined. Uh let's see. Well, let's

see. I have uh 136,000 in the 457 and

56,000 in a Vanguard IRA.

>> So, you only have $200,000.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Um,

I would maybe want to work a couple more years and and build that nest egg a little larger. It's a little scary, small. >> Um, yeah. >> And uh, yeah, definitely. And I think during that time, you need to pay off the helock. And during that time, you need to pay off the credit card. Cut off the credit card tonight. >> U, but I would get on a written budget with a set goal of how much nest egg I could build in two years and be debtree because you've got another problem here.

You've got a $418,000 mortgage. And that

is not something you want to carry into 90 years old. We need to have a plan also to get that mortgage paid down and off. It could be a 5-year plan or a six-year plan, eight-year plan or whatever. But you've got to develop some way to get rid of that mortgage because that thing's going to destabilize your retirement.

>> Yeah, I I do have hopes of putting in a

junior ADU in my bonus room. Uh my

brother's a contractor and he was going to do that for me. I would just have to pay for the materials, which we estimate would be about $10,000.

>> What about selling the house and buying a $600,000 paid for house?

>> Um, that's a thought.

>> Yeah. And then you'd be debtree going into retirement. >> Yeah. >> Um, I think I might go that direction rather than trying to look for a roommate. I don't really want to retire with a roommate. That just Oh, gross.

>> That's how we started our lives in college. I don't want to end them that way. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I agree. I agree.

Oh man. Yeah. I I think you've got to think the math part through a little more. Um and that's probably going to lead you to work a couple more years and pile up your nest egg, clear the debts, and then say, "Okay, when I retire, I'm going to sell the house. I'm going to move near the kids." Maybe you're not near them now and into a $600,000 paid

for property or whatever your equity is that you can get out of the house. But if you can go into retirement with three or 400,000 and a paid for house, that's

a whole different sense of solid ground than you've got with a $418,000 mortgage and a $200,000

nest egg. >> Yeah. And I including that math, Dave's right, I would extend uh the amount of time working, but I'd also begin thinking about what does that next chapter look like? because you said you still wanted to do something and that's very normal. But I would be looking at what would be really enjoyable work that I could do after retiring from day job one and still make some decent money for the sole purposes of continuing to contribute to your retirement. >> Yep. Casey's in Boisee, Idaho. Hi Casey,

how are you?

>> Hi Dave. I'm well. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um I have a question for you. So, my

husband lives in Canada and I am here in

the States. I am planning on moving there in the next few months. I'm trying to get a current job um transfer with my company into a similar position so I can have an income when I move there.

Thankfully, we're in a position where he can support us if not and we've laid it all out worst case scenario where we can afford everything we want and still have $4,000 at the end of each month to put into savings. But what we're trying to decide to do right now is between renting and buying a home. Um, so that's

just kind of where we're at. >> I would rent for one year.

>> Rent for one year. Okay.

>> Get get everything settled and stable and learn how to be married.

>> Okay. Okay. That's helpful. Um, and then Yeah. And I have my house in Idaho, too.

And so we're planning on on renting that out and probably hold on to that. sell it even >> use that money to buy your house in a year.

>> Okay. Okay. Got it. That's helpful.

Okay. Perfect.

>> See how See how all this feels very clean.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And that's was that was kind of like my thoughts on it and we've gone back and forth on on everything on like should we buy, should we rent, and we've, you know, played it all out and we're just like up in the air. Even a conversation we had 30 minutes ago.

>> I think the uh how old are you two?

Um, I'm 32 and he's 30.

>> Both first marriages?

>> Yes, both first marriages. >> Okay. It takes a year

to get to know each other well enough to figure out which house to buy wisely.

>> Okay. >> It takes a We always laugh and say it takes a year to know how close to your mother-in-law to buy.

>> Yeah. >> Right. But that that may not be the case. But I mean, that's a joke. But the point being, you will you will know stuff about each other and have insight into this relationship one year later that you do not have today.

>> Okay. Okay. That's very helpful. Okay.

That's something >> it'll cause you to pick a better house and a different house.

>> Absolutely. >> than you would pick today. And so, um, there's actually a biblical standard for that for those of you that are people of the book. Um in in in the Old Testament

when the kings went out to war, if if a person had been married, they were not allowed to go to war in the first year.

>> They had to stay home and and be a husband. They wouldn't they wouldn't let a manlyw go to war. And uh take takes a year. Takes a year. So um it's good stuff. Fun fun. Good for you. Sounds like a good exciting exciting adventure you've gone into. And it all sounds positive and good and upbeat. That's fun stuff. Fun stuff. But if you can um

because if you buy a house with your boyfriend, which is who you are, who you are right after you got married versus your h your

husband of a year, it's a different conversation, >> right? >> I mean, 20 minutes after you're married, it's a boyfriend. >> Yeah. You got to figure out how what we're bringing into this thing. The other thing we didn't really hit on is we caution people about being long-distance uh landlords, and now you're talking about in another country.

Yeah. So that having a house in Idaho while you're living in Canada just creates a a bit of an onion there that could unravel in a not so fun way.

>> Yeah. And it just puts more pressure on a brand new marriage. >> That's what I meant by cleanliness. It's just it's just crisp and clean. I like it. >> It's very >> I just like things simple. That that's the people that build wealth. They keep things clean, very focused, very simple.

It's not everything's not disorganized and chaotic and bifurcated and everything else. There we go. Good show, Ken. Well done. >> Thank you, sir. That puts us our Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 110. Money Is A Symptom Of The Chaos You Haven’t Faced | November 25, 2025


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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your [music] life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour [music] with Dr. John Deloney and we are answering your questions about life, money, career, relationships, anything and everything. So give us a call at88255225. [music]

All right. First up in Vancouver, we have Sarah on the line. Hi Sarah.

>> Hi. >> Hi. Welcome to the show.

>> Thank you for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, I've been married for 46 years and uh my husband is does not contribute financially to the household finances and he's also not healthy. And I recently found out that he's been having an affair probably for about 30 years.

>> Oh my god. Which has been able to go on because he's had a cell phone for a long

time and he worked shift work which made it really convenient to sneak around.

>> Good. So, I'm wondering, is it worth divorcing at this point in time or do I just wait until he dies because he's not taking care of himself healthwise?

>> Holy smokes.

>> Gosh, Sarah. Okay, so when you say he was having an affair for 30 years, was it with the same woman or it's been off and on multiple?

>> So, he's he's been running >> Well, I believe there's been others, but I believe there's been one very long term. >> Wow. >> So, he's doing shift work, but he's not contributing. So, does his money go to him and then you take care of the house?

>> Yes.

>> I mean, you've been >> He did pay for the mortgage on the house and I paid for everything else. But then once the mortgage was paid for, which has been more than 20 years ago, >> he's quit paying for anything.

>> Let me let me reframe this a little bit.

You've been divorced for 30 years.

>> Y'all just have been living in the same house.

>> Yep. >> Yeah. And I guess

with all due respect, I can't I can't give you that answer >> because I can't carry the weight for you of what you have to do next.

>> You get what I'm saying? Like it's gonna it's such a huge call. You have to make that call.

>> Yeah. >> But Rachel and I can sit with you and tell you that you're not crazy.

>> But you you've been feeling this for three decades though, right?

I thought there was something going on a long time ago and when I confronted him he he just said no we're friends and then of course again because of the shift work and self cell phones you know

they're able to sneak around.

>> When did you find all this out Sarah?

>> Uh when I came home from work um a year more than a year ago I came home from work and I found him and his girlfriend in our backyard. >> Wow. All right. So, here here's the part that um nobody will tell you about finding out you're being cheated on. And and by the way, you've been cheated on financially. You've been cheated on romantically. Like >> your whole marriage has been based in deception. >> One of the things that nobody ever talks about is that scary, terrifying realization

that you don't trust you either

because part of you knew something wasn't right.

And so what I can tell you >> I have no proof. >> I know. I know. But there's that intuition. There's that something is off with this person that I pledged my life to. And over time it's like, man, I

think I'm crazy. And he confirms it, right? Yeah. You're crazy. You don't know. And well, that's your money.

That's your grocery. Like, and it just you slowly go along with it and all of a sudden you find yourself three decades removed from that voice inside your chest. Right? And so what I would tell you is the the the the way I can help

right here is for the first time to

actually sit down and be honest with you about what you know.

And that's scary to do because you either have to choose, well, this is my life and I'm just going to sit here on the pile of rubble that was the marriage I thought I had or I'm going to be about

excavating this thing and building something new and in this in your case by yourself. But there's a reality to that. You get what I'm saying? >> And do you do you want this marriage to be healed, Sarah? Like if he came to you and said, "I want to do the work and I wanna I want to repair this." Would you want that or are you pretty much out?

>> I'm out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Which >> And he's been out. >> No one to blame you. Yeah. So from a from the financial part of this, Sarah, um yeah, I would be keeping everything separate. And even if you wanted repair, I would still say keep it separate until there's a level of trust and healing within the marriage because the money's the symptom, right? You guys um it's

>> never will be because he's not healthy enough to to do anything.

>> Yeah. So, is he not working anymore?

>> No, he's retired.

>> Okay. >> So, so why now? This hap like this all came to light a year ago confirming what you've known for years. Why now?

Um, good question.

I guess because I feel stuck.

>> What does that mean?

>> Do I leave? Do I stay?

Do I walk away from half of everything I've invested in? Like when I say invested in, I mean like doing a lot of

the work and then walking away from whatever pension he has and >> not being able to, you know, receive any of those benefits after all these decades. >> Mhm. >> Are you going to or are you sure that he's not leaving them to his mistress of 30 years?

>> Well, I saw his will recently and it has not it has not been changed.

>> Okay.

I guess >> I do think there's a bank account that she might be accessing, but I have no proof that either. >> Okay. Maybe for the first time begin to trust yourself.

>> Okay. >> And it it's worth asking questions.

And the other question you have to ask yourself is, are you going to be able to sleep at night? If you leave him and he dies next month, are you going to carry

that with you?

No, >> that's not a reason to stay. You're like, "No, nope." [laughter] Like, that's not a reason to stay >> because I I've dealt with some of this stuff. >> Yeah. >> And I've made decisions already, but it's that last final piece about staying or leaving. >> Yeah. I I think anybody in in our position, in Rachel's position, that would um tell you, "Yes, you need to go

do this," um is taking a really powerful

and important decision away from you. And we're not going to do that.

We can call it out and I'll and both of us will confirm. >> But I think you know Sarah, >> yeah, this is unhealthy. This is you've already made your choice. Um, as as my

boss Dave Ramsey always says, when your spirit leaves, let your body leave, too.

>> That's a good one. >> But, and I think this is this this is this is why I'm hesitant just to say, "Yeah, you need to you need to run because it's easy for me to say that." But that comes with very real financial implications, living arrangement implications. Yeah.

>> Health like it comes at a cost that you're going to have to bear regardless of what you do. >> And so I can tell you, you're not crazy.

>> You've been cheated on multiple times for a long, long time and dragged behind this marriage.

I want you to reestablish yourself as somebody you can trust. And what I mean by that is, do you trust yourself not to

squash that inner voice anymore? Do you trust yourself to write things down on a piece of paper and say, "Here's the reality with which I live in." And do you trust yourself to go get the professionals and friends and spiritual adviserss next to you in this next season regardless of what you do if you choose to stay or if you choose to go? It's just a heavy path. >> Yeah.

And not doing it alone. To your point, having people around you to help wade through some of these decisions >> is such a gift. [music] So >> yeah, I'm heartbroken for you >> Sarah. We're so sorry.

[music]

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Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.

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[music]

Up next, we have Shawn in Fresno, [music] California. Hi, Sean. Welcome to the show.

>> Good morning. Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> All right. So, uh, my wife and I spent the last couple years completely exhausting our emergency funds. We've paid about $20,000 in federal taxes over

the last two years in in unforeseen tax

bill, federal tax bills because my wife's uh paychecks did not have any federal taxes taken out by the HR department. Y >> even after we had talked to them about it, they missed it again >> and um we missed it too. So >> Okay. Yeah, I was going to say because you you would know I mean when you get your paycheck to know this is what I made. >> Exactly. >> But you didn't like a couple months.

Yeah, there was a couple months that went by where they were taking it out and then it stopped for some reason or it changed. >> Their HR department kind of I don't know it and it was on us. So >> yeah, sure. That's bizarre. Yeah, >> we also never heard of that happen. >> That's frustrating.

>> It was wild and yes, absolutely frustrating. We've also so we live out in the country >> and so that incurs some country costs.

So this year has been the year where it hasn't been enjoyable to live out in the country. Our solar's gone out. Our wells needed fixed. Our cars have needed about $8,000 of repairs over the last two years as well. So anyway, we have spent about $40,000 of our emergency fund over the last two years and and has ended up where I have a loan of about $7,000 left

>> against my 403b.

>> Okay. We are also still $100,000 uh

about oh $95,000 worth of debt uh in

both cars as well as student loans.

>> Um and so we had we had started our

marriage off about nine years ago hardcore and Ramsey and then we got lazy >> and so we're trying to get back on track. >> Um and so I'm very thankful we had an emergency fund and it used it served its purpose but we're trying to get back on track. Um, and it just feels like we

cannot get back. Uh, we keep exhausting

our emergency fund >> and we just keep getting shelled. Um, so I was just calling I need need some wiser wisdom than uh I have.

>> Yeah. How much you guys make a year?

>> Um, together about 185.

>> Okay. Is that before tax?

>> That is before tax. >> Or before the taxes that weren't paid until [laughter] later?

>> No. Okay. I got you. I got you. Um, >> I think on a monthly basis we bringing in um about 12,000

post tax. >> Okay. Okay. Perfect. And out of the 95,000 of debt and you said student loans and cars, how much break those down for me. What how much is the student loans and how much are the cars?

>> 50 is in cars.

>> Uh 51 is in cars and uh the rest is in

student loans. >> Okay. the cars. Two different cars.

>> Two different cars. >> What are the What are the loans on those? >> We own >> So, one is 36 and the other one is 15.

>> Okay.

>> Um the So, we I I have a third car. We

have a third car. I have a truck that's completely paid for cash, but I also commute for work. And so, getting 10 miles a gallon was killing me. I was spending $600, $700 a month in gas.

>> How far is your work? >> So, I actually got an Yeah. to go to work. Um, so I got an electric car. I

took out a loan on that. So that's the 15,000 on an electric car. Um, but I

charge for free at work. So my gas money

>> Yeah. But then you got you got How much is your car payment?

>> 350 bucks a month.

>> Okay. >> You just Yeah.

>> So Okay. So yeah, some decisions I feel

like need to be made. I where you guys are living considering how much it just cost you solar, the well, I mean all of

it. Are all of those pretty sustainable

going forward that you foresee or are they still like we're probably have to fix that again?

>> Um I I think we're good for now for the next few years, but um I mean those costs or those different things just pop up randomly. >> Um and which they would for any homeowner even if you're not in the country. I'm just trying to figure out Sean, you know, there's a little bit of this like we just want to be able to do everything we want. We want to live where we want to live and so that means we have to drive so far to work which means we have to get an electric like >> there's a a reality >> to life and sometimes you have to pick and choose to make it make sense, if you will.

>> And I'm not saying you'll have to like move by any means, but I'm saying having these thoughts that you know you guys are kind of used to doing a little bit what you want. I mean to a degree. I mean, there's a little bit of like, yeah, we're going to just kind of keep mo moving. So, >> everything you do going forward has to be at a 180°ree difference.

Like, what you would normally do, I would stop and be like, okay, is this really the wisest decision right now. Um, >> or you have to you have to live on on a on a principle of or let me let me put it this way.

M >> cuz I had a long commute in an old banged up truck that I made for 5 years >> and that [clears throat] putting gas in it was expensive. But my wife and I had a a anchor into concrete commitment. We

don't borrow money on depreciating assets especially. I would on a mortgage but not not on a not on a car. And so that was never even in the cards. and we [snorts] would curse the gas bill every month, but we're not going to go buy

another car under the guise uh like we're just we're not going to rob Peter to pay Paul. Right.

>> Right. And that's kind of where I'm feeling like I Yeah. on I guess it makes sense like I've made it make sense.

>> There you go. >> I'm saving this money on gas.

>> Right. You're it's justification is what it is. >> I want a car loan. I don't want a car loan. And the like I have my truck and [clears throat] I love having a truck cuz I do use it as a truck. I don't work on the farm for the farm, but it's nice to have it's another tool in a tool belt, right? And it's like a convenience thing like my truck. I don't know.

>> Yeah. And what John's saying, and I think what you have to get to before we even get to the baby steps of the $1,000 and you pay off the debt, is there has to be a value system conversation in your household, Sean. There is that there is a principle that we do not we do not spend more than what we make. If we can't pay cash for this, we can't afford it.

Regardless, it fixing the well, whatever it is, we are not going to borrow money. So, what does that mean? If that is like a hard line in the sand, what happens is other options come up.

but options that you're able to actually have where when debt is is an immediate answer because it just fixes the urgency of the situation, then you then you wake up, you're like, "Oh my gosh, look at all the payments we have and this is how we've gotten here." So, what what the no debt policy does is it forces you to be creative to look at other options because there are always other options.

>> Yeah. They come fix your well. I have a well out in the country and they come fix it and it cost eight grand or whatever and you say, "Hey, I can give you four right now and then next 30 days cycle I'm going to give you I'm going to give you the the other four when when the work is complete >> and we're not going out to eat. We're doing nothing because we have $4,000 we got to save up this month and I may have to work extra to get that bill." But but in but in three weeks we're going to figure it out.

>> But we have water, right? Yeah. So, like it's that kind of and it sounds extreme from how you probably making decisions, but it's the way you have to do it. So, yeah.

So, if I were you guys, Sean, I would I would sit down. Is your wife pretty on board?

>> 100%. >> Okay. Yeah. So, for you guys, we're going to if you stay on the line before, don't hang up. So, um when we get done with the call, Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you every dollar for a year. And I I want you guys to sit down and do a budget. do the every dollar budget because what it's going to expose is how much spending is happening without you even realizing it.

This $12,000 where it's going. And so what you're going to see and I want you guys to cut everything but food, shelter, utilities, transportation, insurance, like the things that you have to have everything else, Target runs, out to eat, I mean

literally subscriptions. I'm not kidding. Just say if we did nothing but

what we have to have to survive, how much would be left? And then you guys got to look at that number and say, "Okay, there's that number per month." And I don't know what it is, 6,000, whatever it is. And if we did this for x

amount of months, how quickly could we pay this debt off? Now, what if we sold the $36,000 car for 32,000? Maybe we had

to take out a loan because it's underwater for a little bit. Okay. Well, let's make let's do that math. That 6,000.

Play it out. Play it out and say, "Well, we don't want to do that. That seems too extreme." Okay. Maybe it's 4,000.

Whatever it is, you guys have to run out scenarios of your reality. But what I would push you to do is to do this in a short amount of time because you guys make great money. And I know you're in California and all the taxes and everything, but you know, there there's something to be said about doing a really strict plan and you and your wife saying, "We're doing this for a period [music] of time." And it may be a year, it may be two years, and it may be you working extra, she finds some extra income, but getting out of this debt for you guys, I think, is going to be a massive win.

But you have to do it so intentionally and so sacrificially. And y'all haven't felt that in a while. So, it's going to be uncomfortable.

So, hang on the line. Christian's going to pick up. And we're rooting for y'all. I mean, you can do it. You guys are smart people. You got this.

[music]

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[music]

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsy Show. Um, up

next we have [music] James in Dallas.

Hi, James.

>> James, are you there? Hi. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, thanks for having me.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Hey, uh, so, um, my, uh, wife and I are

on Baby Step 2. Um, so we're working on

paying down all of our debt other than the mortgage. Um, we've been, you know,

we're on a plan. Uh, so we're on a budget. We're Christians. And, uh, you know, I got to be honest, one of the things that we've really struggled with over the years is, um, uh, I'm I don't

know. I guess I'm newer in my faith, maybe 3, four years in. And, uh, we've never been great tithers. Um, but now that you know I'm getting one of the reasons I wanted to get out of debt is because there's convicted about, you know, God tells us not to carry debt.

Um, and so my question is, should while

we're just really trying to attack all these debts, um, should we be tithing or

should we just be laser focused on nothing but essentials and paying down the debt?

Yeah, it's a great question and I feel like one that we we get a lot because I think people are really motivated to do whatever goal they're in, whether it's getting out of debt or saving the emergency fund. Um, but the way we kind

of approach money, the way I see money is it's very holistic and it's very much

a picture of who we are as people.

There's something about our character, what we believe, our value system at which then money is then handled, right?

So people that you know don't care about debt or whatever or like just want to >> have an urgent you know get whatever they want in the moment debt's right there you know whatever no worries but if if you have a value system and which probably what you are feeling from a spiritual element even a emotional psychological element of carrying debt it's very heavy and you feel that and you're like yep that's why God says no because when you owe when you when you owe someone something it changes your life it changes the reason you go to work it changes so much so you want to be free of that and so I would put giving in that same light James, um, from we could go the spiritual side or even the non-spiritual side, but for me it's, you know, the giving side.

I don't want it ever to be legalistic because I don't think that was the heart of God. I think the heart of God is when we talk when he talks about how to give, how to sacrifice.

the selfless side of the spectrum. And

we live in a world that is so selfish, right? And I think there's something to be said when we use our money as a tool, as a reflection of who we are and our character and our value system. Um,

there's something holistically good about that. And so for me, that's giving. So yes, is it a commandment? You know, is there scripture around it?

Absolutely. And as a Christian, like you said, but that can that can naturally kind of lean in a legalistic sense. And giving is like the one area of money that I'm like, I don't want you to be legalistic. I think you miss the heart of God in that. And and I'm definitely not on the prosperity side that if you give, you know, there's gonna be a brand new BMW sitting in your driveway. You know, I don't think that's true either.

Um, but there's something about living a selfless life and knowing the ownership

of our money is gods and we're just the managers. We believe that as Christians.

And when you actually physically live that out, it changes who you are. It changes your view about money. It changes how tightly wound and controlled you are by it. It releases so much. And that's what really giving does. not only helps what you're giving to obviously but who we are as people handling money.

It's just a release that I think is really um really impactful to us as

people if that makes sense. So that's a long way to say yes. I would be tithing and giving regardless of where you are financially. And I write in my book know yourself know your money about you know give a little until you can give a lot right so for some people again we teach 10% at Ramsey if you do the every dollar budget literally at the top the very first category is giving and it's 10% is set there.

>> Yeah. No that makes sense. It's a it's a heart issue. Uh and wanting to Yeah, that's that's the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament is you should give what uh um you feel led to uh in in some regard.

>> Well, and and whether you're a Christian or not, I think as a culture, we could

we could all use a reclamation of an

understanding that money is a spiritual issue and work is a spiritual issue and your relationship with your wife is a spiritual issue. If you're a person of if you're a Christian then it that it it goes with that lens on right but these things are all bigger than us and I think culturally we've reduced it into what can I get for me and I like my

personal belief is that is was us sitting at the top of the mountain and that was the slide off the hill right and there's something powerful about saying reminding yourself every month or every two weeks when you get paid this is not my money >> and more importantly I am not the number at the on this paycheck. I'm a person who fill in the blank. I'm a person who gives. I'm a person who is generous. I'm the person who sees that exhausted exhausted waitress and I overtip her or

I overtip him because that's who I am is I keep my eyes open for others, right?

It makes it a I I keep using the word spiritual not to mean Christian, but it is a it's an ethos with which you carry yourself in the world. And so again, like Rachel said, if if y'all can't if you don't have groceries, right, there's something about being sacrificial that might not be this percentage, but it there is something powerful about starting every check with this part is for others. You

get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, totally. >> And I I I'm with Rachel. I will transform how you move throughout the world. >> Yeah. And I think too the money journey that everyone's on, which is more of a marathon than a sprint. This is all not, you know, you don't just, you know, do things with money for two years and you're fine the rest of your life. It is an ongoing daily decision of what you choose to do. And as you earn more and

as you guys get out of debt, James, and as you guys invest and you really do start to build wealth, because that's mathematically what's going to start to happen. Um, we always say, Dave always says it, but it's so true. You know, money is a magnifying glass. It makes you more of what you already are.

And if you can create habits now when you don't feel like you guys have a lot or you have this big goal that is so noble and so great but you still are doing things that are changing who you are.

I mean I think there's something really beautiful to say that that of like man you know we we could get out of debt you know I mean honestly what two or three months faster maybe if we didn't give you know you could you it's but at the end of the day the change that happens within you guys as you are giving and you're sacrificing >> is worth maybe that two to three months of being in debt longer because it's changing who you are that's going to carry you through this entire journey of money.

>> Sure. I want y'all to go away this weekend and y'all are in baby steps, too. So, don't go spend a jillion dollars. But, um, after Thanksgiving, if y'all have a chance to get away with just two of you, maybe it's an hour, maybe it's three hours or whatever, go for a w walk, go for a hike, sit in front of the fire, whatever. Come up with five to 10 we are statements. So,

let's pretend your last name is Smith.

The Smiths are people who.

and let those values frame your action

steps, not the other way around. Because so many of us live when I get X, Y, or Z, then I'll become. And what you find is that's not how the world works. But

we, the Smiths are people who are generous. Period. Well, that's going to frame everything. The Smiths are people who value our relationship with God.

That's going to frame it. The Smiths are people who always invite people over to their house. When you have millions of dollars in the bank, that just means your table will be way bigger.

>> You get what I'm saying? >> That makes a lot of sense. >> But if you try to go through life plan

first and identity later, that's a recipe for this year I'm going to lose 40 pounds and whatever, you're never going to stick to that. If you wake up um January 1 of 2026 and say, "This year I'm going to be a person who is a good steward of his body." Well, that's going to frame how you sleep, how you take days off, how hard you exercise, how you exercise when you're tired, because I'm a guy who takes care of his body.

>> What was the book about? H >> was James Clear. >> James Clear. That's right.

I was going to say there's something about that identity that he talked about. Yes. >> Yeah. Most people try to go into life change with habits first.

I'm going to wake up every day 45 minutes and always you run out of gas on that. But if you start with I'm a person who or we are a family who then you have people over when you're tired. You have you give money when you don't feel like you've got enough that month and you're like you know what we can do without um ice cream or we can do without tipping or we can do without it just changes who you are.

>> [music]

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[music]

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show.

>> Thank you. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, I am basically a college student. I am currently going to community college.

Um, did not go with the four-year because it was just too much.

>> Um, so right now my situation, I'm about

halfway done. I definitely did not apply myself to scholarships like I should have and I took a I took a semester break just to work and just to kind of, you know, absorb and try to reach out for resources. So, I'll be going to school for an extra year, but I did find a lot of resources, a lot of scholarships. I talked to a lot of people.

Um, I'm currently about $12,000 in debt. And then obviously, if I were to continue, I have about 27 more credits. We're talking about $200 of credit.

should I pay cash? Because I'm currently working um part-time.

>> Should I pay cash? I have the money to pay for a semester now. Should I pay cash for the semester and don't worry about it? Um, or should I kind of I I

know you guys hate this term, but live a little. Um, [laughter] >> we don't hate that term.

>> I know. I know. >> Have you met Rachel Cruz? She lives a lot. >> We love to to live in the right order

financially, though. So, that's the only caveat. Um, so I mean, yeah, if you have

the cash to pay for the semester 100% that's what I would do, you know, and if you didn't, then I would tell you to pause like you have in the past and start to just work your way through. It'll take you longer, but at least you're doing it cash flowing it. Um, okay. >> So, no, I would be um >> No, I Yeah, I I would definitely be putting that money and I think you have a lot of life to live and and you're going to live better.

>> Yes. And even more wonderfully, you know, once you like have a job and have an income and no debt and you're like, "Oh, great. I get to go on like really awesome stuff." Now, again, it doesn't mean you do nothing. You can still en enjoy life.

>> I mean, like my my brother always say like live simple. I mean, he like, you know, we're all into kayaking. We love kayaking. I live in the country.

We love kayaking on the river. We all own kayaks, you know. So we, you know, in the, you know, in the summertime, we all love to go kayaking. I'm huge into bowling.

I love bowling. I already have all my equipment. So like going out doing stuff like that. Maybe going out to the beach during like a random weekend, two-day trip.

>> Yeah. >> Um, that's kind of like what I mean by like live a little. >> How old are you?

>> Okay. All the things you just said are

either quasi free or especially in your situation, you've already bought all your gear as is free. That's number one.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you can always just go run out into the water or you can take your kayak and go on the water or you can go throw the big heavy ball at the pins whenever you want minus lane fees. Okay, so that's already solved.

The other thing is it sounds like you're not fighting that reality. You're fighting an ethos.

>> Okay. >> You're fighting this idea that other people have it better than you do.

And let me >> I don't feel jealous in that way, but I I definitely like, okay, >> it's it's not it's not the actual things that are happening. It's this older brother who's like, "Bro, you need to be and you you started this call by apologizing twice, >> okay?" >> With kind of like your head down as though you've already lost something.

And dude, I'm telling you, you're not even at the starting line of the race yet, which is awesome.

>> Yeah. If you will invest in one person

and that's you >> for the next 5 to 10 years, you will

have no idea what quote unquote living a

little looks like. Like to Rachel's point, >> okay? >> If you pay cash and get out of school and go put your nose to like I

you should have more than a part-time job right now is what I'm saying.

You should have a full-time job at >> college. I >> I know, dude. But I had a full-time job and two kids and I got a PhD at night and on weekends. You can do it.

>> Okay. So, the counselor is telling me at college you should only work a certain amount a week. That's kind of BS in a sense. >> I I'm not going to I'm not going to put that on to the counselor. I'm telling you, >> John, blame the counselor. >> Yes. It's [laughter] It's nonsense. It's nonsense. Okay. So, here's the deal.

You're in community college, work full-time, >> get another part-time job, and get done with your school. And there's always Saturday mornings, Sunday evenings, you can go knock out the stuff.

>> You're right. >> Now, what what is your brother doing professionally? >> No, actually, I might have I might have uh >> You said he lives simple.

>> Yes, he does. >> I think Yeah, he's chill.

>> He has he followed He followed your guys' program. He actually introduced me to the Dave Ramsey program. Um he has everything paid off except for his house. And what do I mean by what I was telling you earlier? So, he's into kayaking. He already bought a kayak previously. He loves going hiking. So he already has all of his hiking gear.

That's the stuff he he has the most fun by spending the less.

So he's like a good model in that way. >> Okay. So he's a good model in that way. My bad. Okay. >> Yes. You're good. You're good. >> How old How much older is he than you?

>> Uh 27. So he's seven years old.

>> Okay. So it's very common that people are graduating high school, graduating college, and they want to move into the house the same size as their parents house that they just moved out of.

>> Yeah. >> They want to drive the car that their mom and dad drove them around to school in. Mhm.

>> And that's unrealistic expectations. So your brother has a seven-year head start on you where he lived very frugally,

found love in going out in nature, very inexpensive activities on the whole. Now I'm in the middle of hunting season and I figured out a way to make that very obnoxiously expensive, right? But he's doing it the right way and he's just got almost a decade head start on you.

>> Yeah. >> So put your head down, work really hard.

And I bet he would be a great one to be able to relate to you though to say, "Yeah, you're don't need that stuff." I mean, I bet like, you know, his uh his

story would be >> I've been kayaking with people who have fancy kayaks, fancy stuff, and I've got the rented one that's $15 and it's like it's uncomfortable. It's annoying. >> Is a kayak, >> you know, it's not for bucks.

>> Yeah, exactly. Right. >> It's great. >> But but but listen, if you will >> Yeah. >> write a letter to 50year-old you.

>> Okay. It's a letter of gratitude for here's

the things I'm going to do for the next six to seven years with my head down working my butt off >> so that 50-year-old you has the life that you want to live. 40-y old 50 may be too long. 40-year-old you. 35y old you.

But dude, I want you to put some money in the bank. Don't take debt off the table. I'm a guy who never borrows money. Period. Establish that at 20.

>> I drive a 1990 uh Dodge truck. There you

go. Hey, is it the 12,000 of debt student loans? Is that what that is?

>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, I've that was So, when my first half of college, I I signed up for FASA, which is a student loan. >> And they were like basically >> they'll basically say, "Hey, we'll give you $500 bucks for the semester for books. We'll give you $500 here and there. You know, we'll give you all this money, but the catch is you got to pay like 8% interest at once you graduate.

The day you graduate, they start charging >> months. I know it's terrible. I can get out of it, but I would pay everything cash. And that's I I really want to because I don't want to be >> I think it's that.

So, I think you have a couple of goals tactically is I want you to do a written budget. I want you to pretend that you do have two jobs like what John said. What if you had the income you have coming in and an extra job? How much money will be there?

How much money do you need to save per month to make sure you cash flow the next se starting in August? Right.

>> Yes. So, how much do you need to save between now and August to make sure you cash flow the fall semester or summer classes, whenever you're going to do it.

And then from there, you're going to be able to see, okay, perfect. That's how much I need to save. That's priority.

How much is food? How much is gas? How much is my rent? Like, go ahead and list out all your expenses. And then get to the bottom and say, "Okay, how much is left?" And and to John's point, everything you just talked about, whether it's bowling or kayaking, it's not going to cost a ton. But if you had, I don't know, I'm just gonna guess an extra hundred bucks a month or something to be able to enjoy to be able to go do

some of these things, then that's going to feel great. So, I feel like there's a part of me that says you could probably do both. I don't think it has to be this extreme case of all or nothing, but you have to make sure it's at least in priority. You want to make sure that the school is taken care of because I don't want you going deeper than this 12,000.

And then when you graduate, yes, those bills start coming and that's when you're going to start attacking those. But I would not worry about the past [music] student loans until you're out of school. My number one focus would be to get through the rest of the school without taking on any more loans. And then anything extra you can have fun with, but making sure that that is covered first and foremost.

>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds [music] Credit Union studio.

I'm Rachel Cruz with Dr. John Deloney and we are answering your questions.

[music] All right, we have Mike in Ann Arbor. Hi Mike. Welcome to the show.

Hello. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Yes. So, I've got a I think a rather unique situation. >> Okay. >> But my my sister um so I'm one of three

children. I'm the middle child. My older sister is going through divorce, >> which is terrible situation, of course.

>> She's got three kids. Her eldest I think is about three years away from starting college. >> Okay. >> And um previously like my sister, all

three of her kids were attending private private schools. Mhm. >> Um her and her husband driving luxury vehicles, fancy vacations, living extremely well, >> and no judgment there. That's fantastic, happy for them. But appears from an outsider that they had a very high burn rate. Recently, we've discovered um as

kind of the discovery process going through figuring out how the divorce is going to play out that they have under $50,000 in savings and that includes retirement accounts. That's that's >> Oh, wow. Okay. So, my sister is

expecting to buy her husband out of their current home >> and her dental practice and she needs $800,000 to do that.

>> Now, >> she doesn't have expecting to do this.

[laughter] >> Great question. So, >> she had she had reached out to me um and it turns out she had reached out initially to my parents and they had agreed to provide her with 400,000.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Do they have that money?

>> They they do in their retirement. They're they're retired, but >> but it's it's their nest egg. >> Are they multi multi million? >> Yeah. How much money do they have? Your parents. >> It's a great question. I I don't know the number, but >> Okay. Did it feel like that's a that's a significant part of their retirement? Like a fourth or a third or is it like Oh, no. That's >> 400. 400 they wouldn't miss.

>> Okay. Okay. >> They'd be dang, Gina.

>> It's great. >> I would I'd miss it a lot.

>> A lot would >> definitely. And so my sister then reached out to me. um and asked if my husband and I had an extra 400,000 she could borrow [laughter] and and we're we're pretty good with money. Um so we wouldn't have 400,000 sitting >> getting destroyed by um >> by inflation.

So I mean I I told her that, you know, without selling one of our properties, we >> we wouldn't be able to get her to 400,000, but you know, we'd still be willing to help. >> And then she called me back and told me, "Don't worry about it.

arrangements. >> Oh, no. They're going to give her the full 800. >> Full 800. So, they claim that she's

overleveraged on debt and she can't get a loan from a bank. She's got a mortgage and >> So, we're we're going to let her go almost a million dollars in debt to us.

Awesome. Great plan. >> Right. Well, I that's I don't even know.

Is it going to be a loan or is it going to be a gift? That's what I'm Okay.

Okay. But, you know, my parents have this parental guilt. They feel that she's a victim of the situation. She trusted her husband to manage finances.

This is where I I disagree a bit on the point. >> We're with you, Mike. >> Yeah, we're with you. >> It's It's trust but verify at this point.

You're you're an adult. >> Yep. >> Um and then they also want assurances that in the event that she were to get back to together with her soon to be ex-husband, you know, they would want all of this money back immediately, >> right? All the strings attached.

All the strings attached. >> Don't don't. Yeah. All this is a horrible.

So what what can we do to help? Mike, >> I totally totally understand. Yeah. So from my my perspective, and first of all, I want to know if I'm crazy, but my perspective is my my parents have worked hard and lived frugally their whole lives.

They've provided us with fantastic childhoods. They paid for our college and I want them to, you know, enjoy their retirement and spend their money on what brings them joy. >> Well, >> yeah, but but you can't control that, right? Vote in.

That's what they're choosing to do.

I gave it to them because I also happen to be the executive of their will.

>> Nice. >> Okay, that's fair. >> And um and we have similar financial behaviors. I mean, we're in we're in similar situations financially.

>> All right. But here here's the here's the brass tax. Let's say 100% and Rachel

and I take these calls, so it does happen that your sister was lied to,

manipulated, and just got hit by a by a

steamroller >> with this divorce. the financial position. She had no idea. She thought everything was different. And bam. Okay.

There is that mess. And in my world, we say not by her hand, but in her lap. She didn't cause this and boom, here it is.

>> Mhm. >> That doesn't give license to avoid

reality moving forward.

And that what does that mean? That means she can't afford the house she lives in.

She can't afford to buy a dental practice as much as she wants to own one.

It it it's it's a because I got screwed,

I'm now owed X, Y, or Z. And that's how our country is in almost $40 trillion

worth of debt.

>> That's how student loan debt is almost $2 trillion. I >> credit card debt at an alltime high. Yeah. >> I didn't get this, so I deserve to go to the college I want to. I deserve to have this. I deserve to have this program or that. >> And and her world blew up. And it sounds

like her world before it blew up, she never was told no either. Right. Right.

She never has had to to rational face reality. Yeah. Of, oh, there's not enough money here and my kids can't go to the school I want them to go to. I there's not enough money to buy a car that I really want to buy, so I'm going have to choose a different one.

You know, it sounds like her conditioning for years and years and years has been, I kind of get what I want and we're going to use debt for it because this that's exactly what the savings show. They have no money saved. They've put nothing away. they've spent everything or more.

things to me is pretty obvious. I understand why she does cuz she doesn't have another way of thinking. >> Well, and we all want our kids to go to the best schools on the planet. We all want fancy cars, big house. We all want that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But but and then your parents to a degree enabling that by

continuing to just, you know, fund a little bit of her not facing reality. What >> a little bit million dollar [laughter] for here.

>> Here's the way to have this conversation with your dad. It's not about money.

It's a because he's going to say, "I have it. It's my money. I can do what I want." And he's right on all counts. >> And he can. Yeah. >> He is guaranteeing by his participation in this in your sister's pain. Not just sitting with her in the pain and saying, "This is awful." He's participating in guaranteeing that there will be a there will be a rift in their relationship forever. And after him and your mom pass, that rift will get passed to you guys.

his other kids

guaranteed because when he gives her $800,000 and she shows up in a new car,

his first instinct is going to be why did she pay me back or why where'd she get that money to buy that car? >> Yeah, that that was supposed to go to the house and >> that was supposed to go to this and what about that? And and then when this guy comes back a year later, which happens a lot, and realizes his life's awful and wants her back and sees her thriving practice and she's going to be like, "Oh, well, it is the father of our kids." then >> and in a wonderful way to blow things up.

You know, the marriage is if that's the case and the marriage is redeemed in a healthy way.

>> There's an $800,000 price tag.

>> Now there's a [laughter] million dollar.

You know what I mean? That gets that gets dragged in the middle of that into a beautiful redemption story. So I'm like >> all the way around it's not it's not wise. But Mike, what sucks about your position is you have no control. You really don't. Like he he's gonna they're gonna do what they're going to do and you can say everything you want to say.

say it in the way you think he's going to hear all the things and at the end of the day they're going to choose and then you're going to have to you're going to have to deal with yourself in that decision whether it is pain and sadness and feeling like that's unfair to you and your other sibling. I mean whatever it is that's going to be yours to carry from then on out. >> Is is it normal for her to call you and ask for money?

>> I'm sorry. Is it like her calling you and asking for money? That just after asking mom and dad and then asking you and your wife, that feels like a level of desperation of someone who's scared that their life is unraveling.

>> And sometimes the greatest gift is to let it all the way unravel and sit with somebody >> in the ash.

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>> [music] >> Well, it's that time of year. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing our special giving edition of the Ramsay Show. It's one of our favorite shows that we do all year. And we want to hear stories from you about how you have given generously this season. So, maybe you've tipped um a waiter or waitress

like a ton and you have an awesome story around that. Maybe you've bought someone Thanksgiving dinner. Maybe you bought someone a car. Whatever it looks like, but outrageous generosity. We want to hear from you. Or maybe you were on the receiving end of a very generous gift.

And then those are always obviously is wonderful. So we want to hear from you again. Whether you have been the giver or have been given to, we want to hear.

So go to ramseyolutions.comask

and put giving in the subject line. And we do this um gosh, we do it once a year, always around Christmas time, it's one of the most popular shows that we do. We it always gets so many listens because it's just um it's kind of like faith in humanity. You see the good that's being done. >> And can I tell you now that you've just read this um this this like promo like we're doing this? >> Yeah. >> It reminds me like back in 2007 or 2008,

I was a part of this. It was like a men's group that met on Monday mornings and there was um a guy there. He was a general counsel. name was Slate and he was an attorney.

He was one of the greatest men I've ever met. Every Monday morning he would go around the table and ask us, "What's one nice thing you all did for your wives last week?" >> A >> the number of times I'm a new married guy. Sunday night I did a nice thing so [laughter] that I could say something Monday morning.

Sunday nights I still look around. Is there can I go fill my wife's up car up with gas? Can I help with laundry before school? Whatever.

And so >> if you haven't done anything outrageously generous, go do it just so you can call in. >> Yeah, that's a great >> but it's about but it's about the practice and you start you will feel how good it feels and you'll be more likely to do it again. So, if you haven't done something outrageously generous, let this be the call to go do a thing and then write in and tell us. And then while you're doing that thing, keep your eyes open.

Bring your kids with you. Let them be involved with it. And it will transform obviously somebody else's life, but it will transform your life and hopefully inspire you to give more throughout the year. >> I love it.

So good. Yep. So, that show is coming up December 18th. So, again, start sending in your stories because we do want to celebrate um living like no one else.

The later you get to live and give like no one else. All right, let's go to Houston. And we have CJ on the line.

>> How you doing, Miss Rachel?

>> We are doing great. You got another Houston uh >> Hone >> Houston. Um, what were you? A resident of Houston, I guess. I don't know. Next to me. >> Oh my gosh. You're not a resident of Houston. [laughter] You're from there.

You know what I'm saying, CJ? You You get it? >> From Houston. >> Yeah, I get it. >> CJ, how can we help?

>> Hi, I'm currently 60K in debt. Um, I'm

currently 22 years old. Um, I'm a

college student and I work full-time as well. 30K, about 25K of it is a cosign.

This was before I started listening to the show. Um, I co-signed a car for my mom that she have total, she totaled out her previous car and she wasn't able to get a car. So, >> I'm the only one of her children that has a great credit score and a very well

financially stable in their eyes, but I feel like I'm drowning.

>> Did Is she has she stopped paying on that 25,000? Are you picking that up?

>> No, no, no. She's paying on it. I'm making sure she's paying on it every month. I'm I'm currently >> But you're on the You're on the hook for it is what you're saying still, which Yep. >> Yeah, I get that. >> It makes me uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable. Totally.

>> Man, you should feel uncomfortable. >> What's the rest of the 35,000? Is it student loans? >> I have 10K in student loans.

>> Okay. >> And I'm going to cash flow the rest of my time. I'm currently in community college. I have like a semester left.

>> I'm going to be going to uh either UTSA or another college for cyber security.

>> Okay. Good for you. And then what's the other 25,000?

Um uh 20 of it is my car

>> and then um the other

I might be miss wrong but I have like 7K in credit card debt that I'm currently paying on. That's my baby step one.

>> CJ, what kind of car do you are you driving around? >> I have a 2021 Honda Accord.

>> Mhm. >> Not for long.

>> If you [laughter] you sold it private party. >> A great car. >> I know it is. But listen, I rolled I drove all over Houston. I'm a 6'2 200lb

guy. I drove all over Houston in a 88 Tel EZ hatchback and moved up to a

Corolla. Was it great? No.

>> I'm 67. I'm 67. I I like the car. The

Honda is the only car.

>> You [laughter] man, >> I'm making it fit. >> Okay, CJ, though, we can we can find a we can find a bigger car for less than 20. We do. We do have to we Six. Oh, no.

>> You can't you can't fit in a Honda.

That's what my kids do. 67. 67.

>> It go push it all the way back the last setting in the car. >> You got to take the back seat out of that thing. All right. Good for you. >> Okay. Uh, how much money are you making, CJ? >> I'm making 21.55. And we getting a raise

in about a month. Um, >> how much are you bringing home a month? What's What's hitting your bank account each month?

about 3,500 on the low end, but I have

opportunities to work. Like right now it's slow, but next year when the year starts, we're going to have plenty of overtime. >> Great. Okay. >> And I currently have 5,000 in my savings. And I know we're supposed to have a thousand, but me and my family have went through a lot. So >> nervous. Yeah. It freaks you out a little bit. >> Yeah. More than a little bit. I had I

currently >> am talking to a therapist. I have anxiety and depression. So >> the anxiety comes from >> um stability and when I don't feel stable. It just my world rocks.

>> Yeah. >> Trust me, dude. If you will make this a mad house priority to get this debt out of your life, I've been right where you are, dude. Right there. >> Oh, trust me. I'm on the way to just get

rid of that $4,000

safety. I got you. But listen, on the other side of paying all this debt off, >> you're going to sleep like you have never slept in your life. I promise. Cuz I've walked those same shoes.

>> I know, but I just can't get rid of the safety blanket of that four.

>> No, no, no. I I I'm with you on that.

That's I you just saying the whole get

out of debt thing, >> the whole idea, it's going to it's going to it's going to have you're going to have peace in the way that you probably have >> you working overtime, you going to school, you doing all this stuff. It is worth it is what I'm telling you. >> So, what I would do, CJ, if I were you, cuz you're right on that cusp of that $20,000 car, okay, from a mathematical standpoint, regardless of height and all the things. So, >> just you I mean, unless you're working overtime, can you afford this car?

Because our rule of thumb is if you can't pay the car off in 12 to 18 months and or it's more than 50% of your annual take-home pay, you have too much car.

And you're you're right there, CJ. So, I mean, I just want you to just just look just look, run some numbers and just say, "Okay, what if I did sell at private party?" Cuz it probably is holding its value pretty well. It's a great car. >> So, you may be able to act, I mean, depending on when you bought and how all of it, you may be one of those rare cases that you actually may, you know, be able to sell it for a little bit more than what you owe or you may be a little underwater.

And then I want you to look around, CJ. >> A little underwater. I did a little bit of numbers.

>> Okay, perfect. Is that is that private sale or is that trade in? >> That's private sale. [laughter] >> Okay.

So, >> trade in was about the same thing, but I think I could get a little bit more for it. >> Yeah. Okay. So, again, I want you to just run the numbers that if you if you were underwater 2000, I want you to look around and just do some research on a $5,000 car.

Okay? Just pretend. And maybe you find another older Honda Accord and you're like, "Okay, great.

which is going to fast forward this whole debt payoff so much faster so that you don't have to work overtime much longer, right? So again, it's a give and take situation. That car is right on the cusp of of being able to keep it and paying it off. It's just going to be a longer get out of debt process. So what

I want you to do, so priority number one is I want you to stay current on all of your payments. Okay? Stay current on everything. The second priority since you're in school is I want you to make sure you're cash flowing that last semester.

So save up enough to make sure that that is covered. Okay. [music] Once that's done, >> I'm planning on cash flowing with the rest of school. I don't >> Yes.

That's great. Yep. So is making sure that that is true because I don't want you go in any more debt. And then I want you to start working off paying out that $7,000 in credit card debt.

So if you have multiple cards, start with the smallest. Even if it's an $800 bill on one of the cards, whatever it is, cut everything up and start working your way through the debt snowball, which is paying the smallest debt off first.

And then your student loans won't hit till after you graduate. And then that car is going to be your second big one.

So that's going to decide, hey, do I want to keep it? Is it worth working all this extra? And you'll get to decide that. But CJ, we're so proud of you.

You're changing completely your family tree, and we are here for you. [music]

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[music]

Up next we have Lee in Omaha, Nebraska.

Hi Lee, welcome to the show.

>> Hello. Well, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Uh, I'm 65, retired, and I have about

1.8 million in a traditional Roth IRA

and have about 400,000 in a uh Roth.

>> As I look ahead to the required minimum dispersements, >> Yep. This >> kind of uh a lot.

>> Yeah. Not making you feel great. Yeah.

[laughter] So, the last couple years I've moved

$100,000 each year from the traditional to the Roth. >> Good. >> Would I be better off to keep doing that that way or should I just take the pain say maybe move a million and be done with the pain or just ped along at 100,000? >> Um, what other money do you have?

>> Yeah. Do you have the cash to do that

>> to pay the taxes? >> To pay the taxes on would have to come out of the out of the account behind it.

Yeah. I don't have >> Okay. So, you'd be paying Yeah. So, you don't have the >> cash approximately $100,000 in the bank, you know, but Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. Um, if you don't have the

cash to be paying the taxes, I would not take money out of the account just to pay the taxes. Um, >> if you can do it, but you Yeah. Do you have any income coming in besides your investments?

>> Yeah, I just uh social security.

>> Yeah. Um, how much is that a month?

>> Social Security is about oh 2,300.

>> Okay. A month. >> And are you living off of money in the Roth or the traditional?

>> I am. I'm I'm between between uh social security and uh it's about $7,000 a

month I'm with. Yeah. Total I'm living on a month. >> Okay. Okay. Um yeah. I mean, kind of our

rule of thumb is if you don't have the cash to pay the taxes, um, and if this is all you have, if there was a lot of money that you were going to, you know, have, the great thing about a Roth is, you know, not only are you not paying taxes on the growth, but when you pass it to your children, they're not going to pay taxes either. So, it just like becomes even, you know, a bigger pass down, which is such an advantage. That's why we are such a fan of the Roth.

um is that's that's what's going to be key. And I'd hate to use your retirement investing to pay the taxes on something that's already invested, but uh how much are you having to take out every single year? How much is that?

>> The required >> Oh, they're making it gets up there in the you know 3 400,000 a year I got to take out if I live long enough.

>> Yep. Do you know how quickly that's going to be? A >> year.

Yes. >> No, you don't have to take out $300,000 a year out of your 1.8.

>> Oh, you get to be late 80s. It gets pretty high according to the form the man gave me >> of what it is with all the growth. I'm not sure. >> Yeah, I'm making right now I'm my money is making about 12 to 14%, you know, thereabouts.

>> Yeah. >> Give or take. Yeah. So, you know, I keep telling them to grow or, you know, I >> Yeah, >> I'm out over my skis on this mathematically.

Um, but that number doesn't sound right, but dude, I could be out to lunch on it. >> Yeah, I know. It's that that required It's a weird It's a weird formula when you look at it. And so, I don't I don't I Yeah, I can't do it right now.

So yeah, what I would say, Lee, is unless you had the cash to be able to pay the taxes because you had money saved elsewhere, that would be an automatic yes for me.

you know, which you're going to have to pay anyways um when they make you, you know, take it out. I would run some of those numbers and I would sit down with a smart investor pro as well um because I would want this to be the most mathematical efficient for you but usually converting to a Roth if you don't have the cash on hand um that's usually a sticking point. All right, let's go to Alex in Toronto. Hi Alex,

welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Hi. How are you guys?

>> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> My quick question or hopefully quick question is uh can we afford to travel?

So we live in Canada. We want to go to Spain for my friend's wedding in May.

>> That's funny. >> And uh my wife and I were just wondering if we can afford it.

>> Dude, my friend got married at Arby's.

Man, your friends get married at Spain.

That's awesome.

>> Well, they live there. It's my best friend from from like >> he's international. Alex has friends all over the world, John. >> Yeah, that's true. You got you got cooler friends than me.

>> Okay, so uh Alex, where are you guys at financially?

So, um I make about 150,000 Canadian a

year. >> Okay. >> Uh we don't have any debt other than our home. We owe to in our home about 463,000.

>> Okay. How much does your wife make? Does she work? >> She doesn't work. She's a homemaker.

>> Okay. Wonderful. Um do you guys have money saved? Do you have an emergency fund? >> We have an a small emergency fund of about 9,000. Uh our expenses are about 4 to 5,000 a month.

>> Okay. Okay. >> Um, we I have a pension with my current

work that I contribute towards and my employer matches. >> Mhm. >> Um, about 20% goes towards that pension.

Then I have a uh retirement plan that came from another job that I had in the past that I took with me. There's about 100 grand there. Um.

>> Okay. >> And then there is >> Do you guys have kids, Alex?

>> We do. >> Okay. How many kids do you guys have?

Two kids, eight and six.

>> Okay. How much will this trip cost total? >> I'm total I'm expecting around 5,000.

>> Okay. Do you guys have 5,000 to spare?

You don't have a great emergency fund. So, I would want you to bump up that emergency fund to at least three months of expenses.

>> So, for the last, sorry, for the last two years, we've been saving money, putting money aside. I was investing on my own, but then realizing that my pension is pretty good, that I shouldn't be I mean, I don't know. That's up to you're the expert. So, do I continue putting towards another investment like retirement thing on the side or do I just stick with my pension that I currently have? >> Yeah. So, the the investing is a little

different in Canada, but I can tell you from here we would always say that your 15% of your income needs to go into retirement and your pension would be considered I would I would I would cut that percentage in half. So, how much what percentage is going into the pension?

So my estimate is around 20%.

>> Okay. So what I would say is that would be quote unquote 10%. So I'd be saving 5% more somewhere else.

>> Um and again the the Canadian, you know, retirement, you you'll have to look to see what's probably the better option.

Um but I would put 5% of your income into that. So, I'd have the pension at the at the 20% and then I would put 5% somewhere else because the reason we say the pension it it is included in that 15% but it's half is because it is still a great place to put your retirement but you have no control over it. And so that's what is always a little bit like eh. Um so again 5% somewhere else. But

yeah, if you guys can cash flow this um

this trip to Spain, I mean I would make it a goal to get your emergency fund up.

I would be putting some money away there. But yeah, if you guys have the ability to cash flow it, and again, cash flow and it not stress y'all out. Um,

yeah, you have no debt. I mean, you guys are saving, you're doing great. So, I would say, yeah, I' I'd be okay with it.

>> Okay. Hopefully my wife can listen to this now and then

I don't know. John, would you go?

>> Yeah. >> Sean's a little bit more not as >> Yeah. No, I would go, but um, here's where I would fall short. the moment I

deviate from a plan, right? Like if I'm

trying to accomplish an exercise goal, the the one morning I don't I don't keep my word to myself, I'm off it for the next four months.

And so the only thing giving me pause here is how low that the fact that you got kids and how low your emergency fund is and you are one kid doing one fun thing in the front yard from burning through that $9,000 in no time.

And if you do choose to go to this wedding, it can't be, >> well, we've done it once and now we can do it again and now we can go ahead and get this car. Now we can go and get this other thing. It would have to be such an anomaly and it would have to be different than I'm able to do right now.

>> Yeah. No, I totally get that. Yeah. Two, last time we traveled like that was two years ago.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, it's not a a cert like a constant thing that we do every year. And it may be a thing.

It may be a thing that like only you go and it would be cool to take your wife to Spain and then celebrate at a wedding, whatever, but we can only afford. It only makes sense for us financially for one of us to go. [music] So, those are some more variables you can think about.

There may be more security knowing, okay, we have some we have good money, you know, money saved. Okay, I can take a breath and go on this trip. But yeah, you got to figure out how to get this emergency funded and the trip. If you can do both, that's great.

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[music]

The countdown to Christmas is on and we

have a ton of great deals for you guys for Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Plus,

we're dropping a special one-day sale on

Black Friday and Cyber Monday. So, we're talking about hardcover books, audiobooks, assessments, some as low as $3.99. So, don't miss out. Go to ramiesolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. All right, let's go to Ricardo in San Diego. Hey, Ricardo.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Doing great. How can we help today?

>> Uh, I had a question and kind of wanted to give you a little summary about my life and see if you can help me out with it. Um, I wrote it all down kind of just compacted in a quick summary for us.

>> Perfect.

All right. So, I'll start by saying I'm 28 and I'm calling from San Diego. I live in a rental home with my family, my 2-year-old son, and my soon tobe wife.

Living together is the only way to make San Diego affordable, and every rent payment gets us one step closer to actual home ownership. We all share expenses, so support each other, and we're working towards building something stable for our future.

Currently, I work two jobs Monday through Friday. I'm an HVAC, a career I

switched into after a 10th month training program because I wanted long-term stability for my family. On Fridays and Saturdays, I work in a restaurant. I used to have more hours there, but it's slow season, so I learned that I had to lean more into the

H track to grow and stay consistent financially. >> Um, I still work there in the restaurant, don't get me wrong. Um, I bring home about around 3,650

to about 4,200 a month after taxes

depending on my tips also at the restaurant job. And I follow Dave Ramsey's like baby steps. I've saved the $7,000 towards my emergency fund, budgeting, and trying to use the Every Dollar app and cutting back where I can.

I'm working on paying off a $29,000 car

loan that I just got because I needed to be mobile in order to get me around and the car I had before broke down on me and it actually got totaled and I got in an accident in it. Um, right now my

student loans are also in administrator for parents, so interest piling up on them, but I'm staying focused and attacking them with the debt snowball.

>> Yeah. Hey, get right get right to your question, brother. Get right to your question. >> Yeah. Yeah, sure. So my question is

what do I do as of right now? Even though it's tough supporting my son, my finance, my family, dealing with the high rent, juggling two jobs, managing debt, I'm trying to stay committed and every sacrifice is about giving my son security, helping my family and providing that plan teamwork.

>> Um the thing is that I recently had to go to the hospital. Uh, I have a ruptured eard drum. So, it's very hard

for me right now to see if what's going

to go next in my life because they're thinking I'm gonna need surgery.

>> So, I'm thinking I just put all this time into this career I'm trying to build and now I'm thinking, can I even go back to it because I'm going to be around loud noises and everything and high elevation.

>> Okay. Well, on that end of it, yeah, you will have to figure out is that is that feasible? I don't know what that looks like. I don't know if there's protective earw wear, you know, you can wear that helps you because if you're able to stay, I think within the industry you're, you know, that you have is great because you can only move up from there.

But is 4K sustainable, Ricardo, per month for you?

As of right now, because I have my family living under the same home, it is sustainable and it's the sacrifice I have to make because I make $20 an hour in the HVAC job and then I make 1725

plus tips in the restaurant job.

>> Okay. >> So, it's just more about getting my experience because I have no experience.

I just have >> Yeah. How quickly for the HVAC will you be able to start upping income? Have they [clears throat] Do you have Is there a income track that you can see?

>> Yeah. Yeah, there is. And uh as of right now uh when I talk to my teachers and I also talk to my bosses at work, it's between like the one to two year mark just because I have to get that experience and I have the knowledge, but I do have to get the experience. >> Okay, so Ricardo, I hate to say it, you can't afford a 30 $30,000 car.

>> Yeah, you guys you got to sell your car today. >> That's that's too high. Um yeah, so you can still find a great $10,000 car that

will not break down. Uh, we had a guy on the show last week doing a debtree scream and he's driving a $4,000 car around and he's like, "Listen, it's got 200,000 miles, but it's been great. It It's giving me no trouble." So, there's still are great cars out there that are older that will not break down like what you experience. So, um, I would first

and foremost, yeah, put that car. Have you looked at Kelly Blue Book that if you sold at private party what you would get out of it? >> So, I just recently got a car. It's the 2025 Toyota Camry.

>> Oh, man. You bought a brand new car >> and that's the 30 That's the 29,000.

>> Yeah. And I'm paying monthly on it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I would go on Kelly Blue Book and see what what how much you could sell it for.

>> And you may be underwater because it's brand new, but it won't be too much underwater if it is. So, um yeah, that

needs to be sold. >> How much is in your emergency fund?

>> Right now, it is about $7,000 and I'm trying to get it to 10. >> Well, hold on. How much do you owe on student loans? on student loans right now I owe about about 6,000. >> Okay. Pay those off today.

>> Is is it My other question would be is it feasible for me to do that? Because as of right now since I don't have my ear like I can't hear from my ear I don't know when I will go back to work.

They haven't told me. I don't know if it's going to take months like to get the surgery or to get >> Wait. Do you have to Okay. I'm I'm a I'm a little bit ignorant. Can you not go Can you not do your HVAC work with

listen hearing in one ear?

>> Uh it's it's more of the I talked to the

doctors and they said that I wouldn't be able to do it soon enough. It would take a little bit of time. So it would I'm not sure what time they're really giving me. >> Can Can you flip Can you flip over and go full-time at the restaurant?

>> I can't cuz it's slow season right now.

They just cut everybody. >> Okay. So maybe another one. >> Yeah.

You got like you don't have an alternative, brother. You got to find another one. >> Yeah. >> And I hate that for you.

I hate that with all my guts for you. And that's the reality you find yourself. >> And maybe it's the season, right? So maybe for the next six months to get you through the spring, you're working two restaurant shifts and having to hold off on the HVAC because of your ear >> or you have to go throw boxes at Walmart at night or whatever.

>> Amazon driving. That's right. Uh for holiday season, you know, they usually are picking up tons of drivers.

>> Yeah, she also works. She works two jobs. We're both hard workers. No question about that. No question about that. Yeah. Yeah. We're just trying to be strategic with the hard work to kind of figure out. >> Here's a really uncomfortable question.

You live in one of the most, if not the most expensive place in the United States to live. >> I know that for sure. >> What? What's And it's beautiful.

It's stunning. Every day is the great day is a great day. And there's a mathematical reality. You are you are working so hard and what you're doing is so honorable, but you picked a place that very few people can afford to live day in and day out, especially seeking the kind of security you're looking for that I hear in your voice.

>> What does it look like to pack up and move to Texas >> or pack up to move [laughter] to Kansas? I'm being I'm being serious because you can't you can't afford to live >> Yeah. >> how you're how you're running. It's crazy because I actually made that um I actually tried to talk to my soon tobe wife about that decision too of moving like to Arizona or Texas just because I know yeah >> since I'm in my field I am and I'll find work out there.

>> You you will. But but but here's the deal. It's less an emotional it will become a very emotional decision. Make no mistake but right now you have a math problem.

You don't have a work ethic problem. You don't have a like wanting to love and take care of your your soon to be wife and kid and all that. You don't have those problems. You have a math problem.

>> Yeah.

every month is a grind.

>> So, you know, okay, so here's what I would do, Ricardo, as you get off the phone. My if I were in your shoes, um my

goal would be to save

um $2,000 this month and next month,

however that looks. And then in January, I would be putting my car up for sale.

If you're a little underwater, I think what that's going to give you is you'll have you'll keep $1,000 in your emergency fund. And then you're gonna have $10,000 cash. You're going to use some of that money to pay the difference. Get rid of that. Use the remainder to go buy a crappy five, six,

$7,000 car. Okay? That's going to that

for me, that's step one. That's what you've got to do because this car is killing you. So, I would get that out of your life. That's going to free up that car payment [music] and then you guys can start working on building back and figuring out for medical expenses for the spring and then from there you're going to work on paying off the student loans. But that's going to be possibly putting two restaurant jobs together.

That's going to be, you know, it's it may driving.

>> Yeah, it may look like moving. I don't know what that looks like, but those would be my steps. Car [music] number one, cash flowing a new car and paying the difference in cash. That would be my number one goal. And then we have to Yeah. [music] Um figure out Yeah. the lifestyle, which is a really, really, really big decision, but it's one that long term [music] could relieve you guys a lot from the hard work that you're already doing.

Welcome back to the Ramsay [music] Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

I'm Rachel Cruz with Dr. John Deloney.

You can give us a call at88255225.

All right, starting us off this hour is Cynthia in Miami. Hi Cynthia.

>> Hi, how are you? >> We are doing great. How can we help?

>> Hi. So, I'm calling to get you guys perspective. So, we have a house and we

are selling it to clear out all our debt that we've been having plus the house because when we bought the house, we didn't do it the right way. We didn't put 20% down. It was an older home and

now there's like a lot of work that needs to get done. So, if we are able to sell it, we're able to cash out and then we'll have all our debt paid for and we'll be left with 160k

around there left over. So, I just kind of wanted to see what you guys think we should do cuz we were planning on renting for a little bit. So, then when we're ready to buy, we'll buy the right way. and also just making sure we'll have money to fix things and yeah, so I

just kind of wanted to see what you guys think and also, you know, we'll use that money for investing.

>> Just kind of see what you guys think.

>> Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so two questions. One, um, for you selling this

house, because I just want to clarify, yes, 20% is ideal for a down payment, but we always say if you're a first-time home buyer, 5%'s okay. So, I do want to make sure you're not rushing to move out of this house. Is it really drowning you guys financially? Like you're like, "We we got to get out." Cuz sometimes people are like, "Well, we can just sell, wipe out our debt, and we're all okay." But sometimes that doesn't always fix the issue, you know, if you know. Yeah. Does that make sense from like a behavior standpoint?

>> Of course. Yeah. So, it does make sense.

We actually been trying to pay off a lot of debt like since we've been together for like about 5 years. And then the

thing is that if we keep the house, it'll be an additional 25K in that cuz it needs like a roof ASAP. Okay.

>> AC, water heater. And when we bought the

house, the money that we had, we fixed it inside. It was like a fixer upper kind of house. We didn't do all the major things at first. >> Okay. Gotcha. And that and the payments too much and all the all the expenses that are going to be with it, you're like, it's just too much for us to handle in our income.

>> Yes. Correct. So, we were just thinking of starting fresh now that we know what we know and we're more, you know, we're more diligent with our money. So, we're like, we'll have a clean slate and we'll >> Okay. Yeah. How much consumer debt will you guys pay off with the equity?

>> $199,424.91.

>> Oh, wow. What was that in?

>> It was in Well, the house is $153,000

and then the car, >> credit cards, all that. Where are you going to get the $160,000 in equity

>> of selling the house?

>> You only owe1 150 on it.

>> 150. Yes. >> Okay. So, you're going to sell it for 330 340 something like 345? Yeah. 340. Yeah.

>> Are you confident that someone's going to come in and buy a $340,000 house that immediately needs a roof and a hot water heater and all that other stuff? >> Yeah. It's actually Yeah, they already It's already done. They put in an offer and everything. >> Oh, the offer is in and good to go.

Okay, cool. >> Okay, great. So, good to go.

>> Well, you'll have great equity. I mean, you did well whether you're aggressively paying it off or it was just the market.

But well done that. That's great. Okay, so yep. So, you're able to pay off Yeah.

the remaining mortgage and then about that $40,000ish dollars of just consumer debt that you have and then you're going to have 160 left.

>> Um 160 left or 120 left after you pay your debt off? Uh after Oh, probably

after I believe, hold on, let me double

check. I think it'll probably be like around like 1:30 we might have left over possibly paying the consumer debt. Okay, >> I know it's like over around that. All right, I want you Rachel's going to tell you what to do with that, but I want you to make me a promise in front of >> Okay, >> all of America who listens to this show, >> okay? >> After you've paid off your consumer debt, this money goes into a high yield

savings account and you don't touch it for 90 days.

>> I will make that promise. >> You can't buy anything.

>> No new car, Cynthia.

>> No, we do not want nothing. We're actually paying our car now. So, we will have this car for a long time and we're going to take care of it. >> I know, but that money is going to burn a hole >> in your pocket.

>> Y'all have to y'all have to like >> like like I I don't know how y'all do it in your marriage. Spit shake uh contract. Y'all go outside and etch it into the driveway. >> Y'all will not touch this money because it is going to be so you're going to look up.

>> The cruise is going to look good in December in Miami. friend is going to [laughter] get remarried and want you to go to Australia. A buddy's going to have a brand new car that he just has to sell at such a great deal. Your your husband's going to want crypto.

Like, it's just going to happen. Y'all can't touch this cuz it's otherwise you're going to sell this house and you're going to find yourself right back in the same situation. I promise you, we've taken this call countless times over the over the years. >> Okay.

>> Yeah. No. Yeah, definitely. That's our goal.

Like, I don't want credit cards. I don't want none of that. Like if you can't afford it, you can't afford it.

I'm a believer. >> All right. I'm trusting you. And you're going to get struck by lightning or something like that if you spend the [laughter] money. Okay.

>> No, I feel like >> you'll hear God's voice himself. Not one penny. It goes into a high yield savings account and all your all your friends are going to be like, "Oh my gosh, you can get higher rate." I know. This is a spiritual exercise for you guys. Okay.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Cool. >> So, we're not touching it till February, March. >> Yes. for per John's.

>> I think that's great. I think that's I think it's a great um I think it's a great principle to act. I think that's awesome. Okay, so Cynthia, for you guys, monthto month, when you go rent somewhere, >> if you if you factor in the new rent plus your life, how much do you guys spend a month? How much you guys need in operating expenses a month?

>> Yeah. So, that's actually something we've been working on. So, we'll make about like 4700 a month. They'll range

to 47 to five. Okay. And what we'll do

is um now we factor in the rent and

we're also like factoring our groceries.

We've been really like >> Are y'all both working, Cynthia?

>> Yeah, we both own a business together.

So we're both Yeah, we both running together. So >> how's the business going? Do you see? Is there an upward trajectory of it? Okay.

>> Yeah, it's going good >> because around you know I mean you guys are 60kish in Miami. It's not a ton.

It's an expensive area.

>> Yeah. So it it's it's good and it's

okay. We're not like in Miami. We're around that area. >> Okay. So So doable >> for you guys. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Good.

Good. >> Yes. Cuz like especially since we're cutting off all our expense like our like those bills like those credit cards. We're really just what our goal is is to pay the rent. We'll get our groceries. Pay the essential bills and then all that money will be able to >> Do youall have kids?

>> We do. We have two kids. >> Okay. Great. Okay. Okay. So, what I would do for y'all is probably more of a six-month emergency fund, which will be about 25K. So, I would earmark, you know, around 30,000 of that of your new money just for an emergency fund that you're never going to touch unless you need it. And that leaves about 100K.

>> So, I would make that my baby step 3B because you guys will have no consumer debt. You'll have a fully funded emergency fund. And then I think the next step is getting into a home. Now, you guys can start doing retirement. Do you all have like a SE or do you'all have any kind of thing within your business? Simple IRA.

>> Yeah, we actually have a Roth IRA. We've been investing too. >> Okay. For a long time, Maria. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, depending on how quickly you guys want to be back into home ownership would be if I So, I would either have

that 100,000 and then start saving on

top of that for a down payment. And then

if you're not going to buy a home within I would say probably three years, I would start investing as well 15% of my income into retirement. But if you think you could buy a house in around three years with the amount you can save, I probably would hold off retirement till I'm in the house and then fund 15% of my income into retirement. But if it's going to take longer than 3 years to buy again, I'd probably go ahead and just um

do the 15% into retirement and [music] build on top of that down payment. But those would be my next goals for you guys. So yeah, excited for you guys for this next season.

Heat. Heat.

So, buying or selling your home is a really big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines out there and conflicting data, it's really hard to know what's actually happening in the housing market. So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand.

So, the medium home prices have held steady at around $424,000.

And in October, about one in five houses

saw a price cut, which means that buyers might have more room to uh negotiate this winter, which is great if you are looking to buy. Mortgage rates have dipped slightly to 5.49 in October,

giving some buyers some breathing room.

But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you are ready.

So, if you are out of debt, you have a fully funded emergency fund and a down payment for first-time home buyers at at least 5%. 20% is wonderful, um, then you

are ready to enter the market. So, if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get some free tools so you can buy or sell with confidence, go to ramiesolutions.com/markets or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right, let's go to Anthony in Texas.

Hey Anthony, welcome to the show.

>> Hello guys, how are you doing? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Good. Um, so my question is more a career question than financial. Um, so I

am a apprentice for a utility company here in Texas. Um, I gross around 150,000 a year. Um, my wife also works.

She grosses around 60,000 a year. Um,

I'm on the road Monday through Friday,

usually about four hours away. Um, I've been working a lot of weekends lately. I have a kid due in uh, February. So, I'm wondering, >> Congratulations. >> Thank you for that. Um, I'm wondering, do I stay here and journey out

and then it's almost like if I journey out, what do I do next? or do I go ahead and do a career move now and work towards something else?

>> If you journey out, are you going to be able to have a more local uh gig or you

is that just a commitment to be on the road forever?

>> So, you can there is a chance to be local, but everybody else is trying to go local as well. So, it's a competition basically. So, I couldn't say a month after I journey out I'm going to be local. It could be a year. >> Well, flip that conversation around.

Let me say it this way. Every single friend of mine in Texas who's about my age is talking about the utility boom.

>> It's it's it's wild, right? You know this. They're paying you a bunch of money just as an apprentice, right?

>> Um >> Yes. >> And they're paying you to be away from any sort of life whatsoever, right?

>> Yes. >> And there's there's a premium on that, right? Um the question I would ask myself is if I bit the bullet for

another How close are you to journeyman status?

>> Uh, two more years.

>> That's a long time to be gone seven days a week.

Um, here's my question.

>> Is there a possibility that y'all are able to relocate once you get established?

Because you're you're you're looking at one of those jobs that everyone in the country is saying people need to start looking for.

>> Yes. So, I could e I could relocate.

Yes. Um, I just did buy a house here.

>> Okay. >> Um, but in two years, yes, I could relocate if I needed to.

>> Is there a way to not have to work weekend? I'm just, man, it's a tough That's tough sledding with a with a brand new baby being gone seven days a week >> for two years. >> There isn't. And there's some I just worked 18 days straight before. So, I mean, there's sometimes I work longer.

>> Yeah. What would you do if you weren't doing this? Do you know?

Um, honestly, I don't know. It's uh that's also a problem I have is I don't know what career path to go. Um, career

path kind Oh, go ahead. >> Well, is your wife going to go back to work or is it dependent? Is that dependent upon what you're making?

>> Uh, she is going to go back to work. She said she'll never quit working. So, she's going to go back to work. She's a nurse. >> Okay. So, anytime I feel backed into a

corner, either I have to do this or I have to do that, one of my personal rules of thumb is I throw a bunch of random ideas on the table just to a

prove to myself I don't have to do this or that and give myself some breathing room on and maybe another idea will emerge. Here's what I mean. Is there a possibility that y'all go and and you're doing this not for right now, but you're doing this for 10 year from now, y'all?

Okay. Is there a possibility that she took a 24-month hiatus from nursing and

she y'all put her up in the nicest hotels when you travel? Or are you out in remote desolate nowhere West Odessa where there's I mean there's nothing on top of nothing. Um that's an idea. Could she go to travel nursing and go with you for a season?

is there.

misery. You let that thing go.

>> And at the same time, >> man, working 18 days straight with a newborn is really tough. Although I will say, man, I've got buddies who got deployed right when their wives were pregnant and they missed the first. I mean, it's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world. But, but >> yeah. So, after the two years, >> it's tough. >> After the two years, um, the job that you'll have, is that what you want to do, Anthony? Like, do you see yourself being fulfilled in that career?

>> Honestly, um, probably not. Um, this career kind of just fell on my lap and I took it because it's a great opportunity. Um, >> everybody in this area would die for this career. >> It's just it just happened to go that way. I just don't know if I want to continue to do it. I went for local. I'm 27. >> Okay. >> What did you do before this?

>> Uh, I did insurance. I was a like a third party for insurance companies.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I would, man, I would be tempted

to explore. We can give you Ken Coleman's book um to look at the work you're wired to do. there's an assessment in the back of it, a career assessment that it's actually amazing that could even jog to John's point as you're starting to kind of think through other options could maybe, you know,

create some ideas of, oh gosh, I never thought about this or that because in a per I mean, right, in everyone's perfect world, which we're all adults and it's not always perfect, is that you're doing a job that you love and that you are

passionate about, that you're good at, and you're paid really well, right? Like that's the that's the ideal world for

37year-old Anthony, right? In 10 years.

Like that's that's what's ideal. So I want to start moving towards a path to create that. And if this is a job, even

though it pays so great and it's such a great opportunity, doesn't always mean it's great for you, but I also don't want you guys to flounder financially by any means with any of it. Do you guys have a lot of debt?

>> No. So the only debt we have is the mortgage, which is 250,000.

>> Okay. Yeah. also able to save 80,000.

>> So I have 80,000 just saved >> in a savings account >> because I knew this point was coming.

>> So good. Yeah. >> Well, and that might be another question. Instead of looking at the work, instead of looking at the passion and that kind of stuff at this stage, >> could you and your wife sit down and agree on a number?

I'm going to do this till we have 150 grand >> or till I have 125 grand. And while we're doing that, I'm going to be in my trailer or in my hotel room um on my

laptop working like mad to find other

work so that when I make this jump, I'm not making this jump into nothing, >> but I'm making this jump to something.

You get what I'm saying?

>> Yes. Totally agree. Um so, and another

obstacle, and sorry if we don't have much time, but another obstacle I have is when I journey out, my pay will be significantly higher. It should be about 250,000. >> Mhm. So, I don't want to get attached to the money if I do plan to leave. See what I'm saying? >> Yeah. But you your your character as it is right now, you're not I mean, that's not how you're rolling. If if you because we also talked to people who get this first job, make 120 grand.

>> Okay. Can I push back a little bit? >> We push away. Yeah.

>> Okay. But I also don't think he need They don't need it though. Like if you if they had if y'all had a ton of debt, Anthony, and no savings, I'd be like, "Sorry, you you got to do whatever you can to get yourselves in a good position. Y'all are in an awesome position." You know what I I'm just trying to give them a framework for >> we're all going to be at peace when we cross.

>> And that might be today. Your wife may look at you and say, "Hey, we're we have enough now. We're good now." >> Yeah. >> I want you home.

>> But find that number that you're like, "This feels right once we hit this number to make a transition to maybe something different." >> And I'll tell you this, if you work for dollars, not for the life that dollars can supposedly give you, meaning if you think your pe you're going to find peace at a dollar amount, you will never catch it.

>> You and your wife get together and ask yourselves, what kind of life do we want to live? Let's reverse engineer for that. >> And hold on the line. Christian's going to pick up. We'll get you Ken's book.

[music]

>> [music]

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>> All right, today's question comes from Mary in Alaska. Mary writes, "My husband

and I owe the IRS over $90,000 due to

property sales. We are currently paying down that monthly. We also have $15,000

in credit card debt, car debt of 14K, and a $250,000 mortgage. We have over

$150,000, oh god, in precious metals and $150,000

in a CD. We are retired and our income

is about $7,500 a month. I want to cash

out the medals to pay off everything.

Yes. You know why? Cuz you are wise. My husband wants to keep the medals because the value is increasing right this second.

We have no retirement accounts except the CD already mentioned. My husband has been pilfering that account in order to buy more metals. Good gosh, what should we do?

>> Okay. >> I mean, this is an easy math problem.

Precious metals are a speculative commodity. They go up and then they go way, way, way down, and they stay down and they go up when people freak out.

Then they go down. Sell them. Sell them.

sell them today because you know what is going only up and more of a tighter and

tighter uh chain around your ankle is

this IRS debt. Get rid of this stuff

now. And you know what's going down in value? Your cars. While that debt stays the same, your credit card debt is going up because of interest. Just cash the stuff out. But you have a bigger issue here, Rachel. >> Yeah. I mean, you guys don't have a lot of money, Mary. >> Well, somehow they've got $7,500 a month coming in. And I don't know if that's social security. I don't know what that is. That's a pension or what?

>> So the consumer debt, the IRS debt, yes, needs to be paid completely. Um, and then I would take money once the CD matures, take that 150 out, and then the precious I mean, you guys will have $30,000 left after you pay off everything. And I would then put all of that into investments. I mean, I would sit down with a Smart Investor Pro and say, "Okay, aggressively, what can we do to to do this?" I would not throw it all at the mortgage right now because I would rather you have some money in in retirement um that you're slowly paying off the house.

But I'm scared you guys, Mary, that I mean, you don't you'll have $150,000 left basically.

that does worry me for you guys long term. That's not going to be enough money to retire on. And so the reality is Mary, you guys are probably going to have to go back to work in some capacity. >> Well, they're making $7,500 bucks a month. >> Yeah. They only have $150,000 saved in a $250,000 mortgage. Yeah, they may have to sell that mortgage and way downsize.

>> You may have. Yeah, you either downsize and I don't know how much you could get. I mean, I don't know what equity you have in your home. Um, that's an option.

Or, you know, for a few years, Mary, of figuring out, you know, how do we how do we make some money because you guys just don't have enough um to cover what debt

you have with your liabilities versus what you have. I mean, that's that's the math. >> But to me, the scary thing here is your last sentence. My husband's pilfering >> Yes. our last remaining dollars to buy

more precious metals. This is a recipe for a >> disaster >> crash. Yes. >> Yes. 100% agree. 100%. Okay.

>> So, you got to address the um the lack of integrity in your husband. You got to address y'all's core marriage issues cuz I guarantee this isn't the only place where he's quote unquote pilfering things. Y'all got to get got to get on the same page there and come up with a unified plan moving forward. And I know that's easier said than done.

um you wouldn't be in these other situations if y'all had been united moving [clears throat] moving together.

You know what I mean? If you just step down. So, be thinking about that long term. Um >> because I want you guys to be able Yeah.

to to be able to breathe.

>> All right, let's go to Stephanie in Chicago. Hi, Stephanie.

>> Hi. >> Hello. Hello. Welcome to the show. Oh, how can we help today?

>> Thank you. I've been a fan for a very long time. I appreciate what you guys do. >> Well, thank you. Thanks for calling in.

>> My question is related to our uh

retirement savings. Um, so my husband and I recently bought what we hope to be our forever home. We sold our starter and our mortgage has obviously increased

as has the rate. Um, so we're wondering if it's ever okay for us to pull back

from retirement savings and just kind of

give ourselves more margin for our

increase in expenses.

>> What percentage is your mortgage payment on this forever home compared to your income? >> So, um, I it's it's close. It's about 25% of

our monthly income.

>> So, where's the rest of your money going?

So, we do have um our son does go to private, which is something that it was kind of one of the reasons that we did move neighborhood. So, it's very likely that he may be going to the local public school next school year. But, we also

have some repairs to do in this home that were a bit unexpected. Um, and we do have some goals for the future as far as um, saving for a vehicle and paying

off the home faster, which is something that has kind of been weighing on me. I was very comfortable with the mortgage that we had, but >> we're we're kind of at odds at whether we should pull back. I'm kind of more on the I think we should just keep saving where we're at and make it work. And my >> Are you doing 15%? Putting 15% away and that's too much is what you're saying.

So, we're each doing 16% not including our company match, which is pretty generous. Um Okay. And then we're we're

also maxing out our Roth IAS from our take-home pay. >> Okay. Do you know percentage-wise how much of your income is going to all of those? Because that's going to be way more than 15%.

>> Um I don't. Okay. Um if if we're

including our company match it, we're both each putting away 24% of our income. >> Okay. Yes. >> And that's not including the Roth IAS that we're doing. >> Yeah. Exact. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, you guys are probably putting too much in retirement. So what we would say is 15% of your income needs to go into retirement. How much does your company match?

>> It's 8% total.

>> 8%. Okay. So, what I would do is go up to the match and then the remaining percentage that you guys have, I would go then to the Roth, max out the Roth, and if there's any percentages left, go back to your to the 401k. Um, but I

would just I would just do 15% of your income into into retirement. Both your

401k, the 8%, not including the employers match. So, that's not 16. I don't count the employers as 16. I just count your 8% going in.

>> And then um Okay. And then the remaining

15% take to your Roth IRA. And if you

max that out, depending on what you're making, if you max it out, go back to the 401k or it may just be enough just to do the 8% and then maxing out the Roth. I'm not sure. So you guys will have to kind of do the the math on that.

But yeah, um I would cut back your retirement um to 15%.

>> Okay. So you're saying just do the 8% to match the company and then put the remainder of that into our Roth.

>> Into your Roth. Yes. But um cuz how much

are you how much are you guys making a year >> combined? It fluctuates because we both have our base salary and then commission, but I would say comfortably it's the most we've ever made. We're at about 160 17. Okay. Well then, okay. So,

so the the max on the Roth this year I think is eight.

>> Um so what I would 8,000 each. So again,

after you fund that 8%, if 7% of your

income left fills up the Roth IRA, then

just stop. You guys are good. But again, if you hit that max and you still have one or two percentages left of your income to fit hit that 15%, go back to the 401k. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. It's hard for me because I know on paper like what we what we have saved up looks good, but like my mind doesn't connect with it just never feels like enough. I I think I'd maybe worry too much about the future. So, >> what does what does enough what does enough mean?

>> You know, I wish that I knew. I think it

just boils down to the fact that we both grew up pretty poor and no one in our family had any financial literacy.

>> And I'm always like, you know, we're I feel like we have really >> How old are you guys? How old are you guys, Stephanie?

>> We're both 38. >> Okay. And how much do y'all have in retirement right now?

Between all of our IAS and 401ks, it's [music] just about 500,000. Okay. Oh, sister, you're good. >> So, what's crazy is Stephanie, if you just stop right now and don't do anything, your money will double [music] every seven years.

Okay? So, you guys are going to have millions every time, right? If you didn't do anything from now, like if even if you just stopped and [music] you're going to continue to contribute 15%. So, the remaining money that you're going to stop putting in retirement, yes, upgrade the cars if you need to and pay the house off early.

scripture today [music] comes from Isaiah 66:9.

I will not cause pain without [music] allowing something new to be born, says the Lord. Malcolm Gladwell says, "A lot

of what is most beautiful about the world arises from struggle." So good.

All right, let's go to Ryan in Minneapolis. Hi, Ryan. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how are you guys doing?

>> We're doing great. How can we help today?

Um yeah, I'm just uh I had uh

a question. My um a relative just passed away and he uh by

default because my um

father passed away. Uh me and my brother are set to inherit what he has left.

>> Okay. >> Which is um a house and a few cars and

whatnot. Um, but the only problem is he

has a um IRS debt of about 120,000 and uh so

we're going to have to um >> sell the house, >> do a cash out refinance to pay for the house. >> But I'm what I'm wondering about is if

um me and my brother should sell it or

if we should hold on to it. That's what we're kind of uh at odds about right

now. >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, the IRS lean's gonna How much is the house? How much is it worth? If you sold it, what would it be worth? >> Um, it's give or take 200,000 probably.

>> Yeah. Somewhere in that in that range.

Yeah. But if it was fixed up, it's worth

it's worth like easily 400,000.

Yeah. >> It would double in value if you fix it up. Yes. Okay. For sure. >> All of this is good, but the it it it

glosses over the main question here, which is, can you afford to do that?

>> Like, if somebody if somebody drove up here and said, "Hey, I got a brand new Lexus and it's awesome. It's just going to cost $100,000 and there was a $200,000 car." That'd be a great deal, but I don't have the money to go buy that thing.

>> Right. >> And I'm not I'm sure not going to take out a cash out refi with a house with leans all over it. You get what I'm saying?

Okay. >> And co-share it with a brother who I already have difference of opinion on how we're going to manage stuff moving forward. Like this is just bad decision after bad decision after bad decision.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So the smart thing, Ryan, would be to you got to sell you got to pay the IRS debt and then you guys split whatever's left in it. I mean that that's the cleanest, smartest way.

And then you take that money and then whatever you want to do with money, you know, whether you want to go and save and buy up a rental and have another second home to do whatever, you know, whatever that looks like for you, you can do that on your own terms. But yeah, sh Yeah, John's exactly right. Sharing a property with a family member is so messy.

Well, see the only the only problem is there's also more debt as far as like credit cards and so I pretty sure the estate will it's going to become insolvent. >> Okay. Yeah, you may not get anything from it and that's great. I'd rather be out and not even be near it then.

>> I would not try I I wouldn't try to make the deal work. Ryan, >> do you do you have is this an emotional attachment too?

>> Yeah, it's for sure sentimental for sure. So, dude, like >> it was a >> I'm I'm all with you on that.

What's important about this house to you?

>> Well, it was um it was the house my dad grew up in.

>> Um my grandpa and grandpa or my grandpa

basically built it.

>> Built the whole thing with his hands.

Like it it's all everything hasn't been updated since he did it in the 50s and 60s. So, >> yeah. So like your your emotional attachment to this, the sentimental value is very real. And Rachel and I don't take that lightly. That's a real pain. That's a treasure.

>> And that sentimental treasure is going

to become like a a weight around your neck, making it very hard to continue to tread water in an already chaotic time.

>> Okay. >> Do you have what what's your financial state, Ryan? Do you have money saved or consumer debt? Where where are you at?

>> No, I'm I'm fine. No debt. Um I just got

married a month ago and we're we're about uh >> Yeah, we're uh we're we're we're fine personally. >> Um you know, we have we're on track for retirement. Um >> Yeah. Do you have a lot of cash available?

>> Um not 120,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Does your new wife have any

um I know she hasn't obviously you guys are newly wed, but does she have any thoughts in this? Sometimes an outside spouse, you know, that's new to the situation who's less emotionally attached has thoughts, too. What is what is she saying?

>> Um I mean, she would she would like to for us to own a house eventually. Um

and and me as well. Uh but she doesn't

want to live there until it's fixed up, understandably. >> Yeah. Um, >> and that's going to be more money going into it. >> And everybody who thinks it's going to cost X to fix it up, the rule of thumb is double, if not triple that that amount of money that you think it's going to cost. You're going to get into a hundred-y old home and find out it needs all kind of stuff, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And like you said, if you get into this estate and you keep this asset, it they're going to come after you for I mean, it's it's just going to be it's going to be a mess financially of what you're going to have to do to get above water to be able to keep it and make it make sense. And then on top of that, let alone the repairs and everything.

>> Can I can I tell you something that I I an experience I had a few years ago.

>> So when I started working in universities, my granddad, who's one of my all-time life heroes, one of the greatest men I've ever known. He brought me into his closet and he gave me this tweed jacket cuz it looked like a professor's jacket. Had like the brown patches on the elbows and everything. It has never fit one time. It never fit.

But I carried that jacket with me everywhere, house to house to house to house. And then one day a few years ago, I was packing up to move yet again. And

I was I looked at this jacket. I thought of my granddad who'd passed away. I smiled and I put it in the Keat pile.

And then for whatever reason, I turned and I looked at that jacket and I said out loud without thinking about it. It wasn't some big aha moment, but I just said, "My granddad is not in that jacket." And then I put my hand on my chest and I said, "He's right here." And I picked up this jacket that's somebody's going to use and it's going to use it well. It will never be me. And I put it in the donate pile.

>> Oh, John. >> I did. Because >> it's a great illustration. because somebody's going to need that jacket and I'm keeping it from them by pretending to hang on to a memory that is is is

actually inside of me.

And it was sad. It was heartbreaking.

And I've got a couple of keepsakes on my desk right now at my house where I'm writing. It's it's it's right there.

But sometimes these sentimental things, they become they become bricks we carry around. And like it's not like you're calling us and saying, "Hey, my my dad stewarded his money well and his father's money well. We have a property worth $5 million and we just want to buy new cars, so we're going to sell." That's not what you're saying, man. You're saying that you got an absolute mess and there's a bunch of heartstrings

attached to it. And so, man, I honor that. But, dude, doing a bunch of unwise financial things, especially on the heels of a brand new marriage, this house is going to turn into a deep resentment. It's going to further put a put a gap between you and your brother's relationship.

It's going to begin to build a um a space between you and your new wife because you're not going to be able to buy the house you want because you're going to have all this outstanding debt on this h it's just going to cause a mess, man.

And also, dude, I get the heartbreak. It stinks.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a Well, thank you for telling that story. That's Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, and it's so hard, too, because >> when it's the right thing to do, even though it's the sad thing, that's that that sucks. >> Just because it hurts doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do. >> Yep.

But though that is the wisest path, Ryan. Um >> I hate it for you >> is that and I know that >> it's heartbreaking and you know, and it and it shows too how much we talk about this a lot on this show, our emotions >> can drive so many decisions and then we look up four years later and think, what was why did I do that? Right? out of stress, out of fear, out of grief, like whatever it is.

>> Yes. >> And find himself in a >> stuck there. Yeah. Yeah. I know, Ryan.

I'm so sorry. Um, but I hope I hope that helps. [music] Even though brother, pay off all the debts and >> Yep. And you build a great great life with your new wife. All right. Well, thanks to our wonderful audience here in Nashville at Ramsey Solutions. Thanks to all you in the booth. John, thank you as well. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk [music] daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 111. Money Is Just as Emotional as It Is Mathematical | January 22, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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---

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform [music] your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show and I'm Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with Dr. John Delony and we are answering your [music] calls. So give us a call at 1-888-825-5225.

We'll be talking about your life and your money. Starting us off this hour is

Hannah in Salt Lake City. Hi Hannah,

welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely.

How can we help today?

Hi, so I have kind of a two-part

question. Um So I got married about two and a half years ago. Um it's my second marriage.

I have a teenage daughter from my first marriage. Um but my current husband, we have a toddler, about a year and a half old.

And um he is um a welder by trade. So he

and he is very physically capable. Um

he's in his late 30s and I'm in my early 40s. Um he refuses to work.

Um I work for a school district, so it's not like I make a ton of money. Um but I make enough to cover the bills. So um the house that we live in is mine. I bought it in 2020, thankfully.

Um but again, we've been married since 2023.

Um and we put our child in daycare four

days a week. Um and he does he watches [clears throat] her um one day a week.

Which is really nice cuz child care is incredibly expensive. >> Sure. But there's um a lot of resentment on my end building up because he just absolutely What's he doing the other four days, Hannah? What's he Where is he going?

What's he doing? Um that's a good question. So um he's from a town that's

about an hour away. So he'll go back over there and he'll hang out with friends and sometimes he picks up odd jobs, I guess. Um I don't I don't really know. I ask him all the time what he's doing and he just so he's kind of has a, you know, weird ambiguous answer. Um Oh, gosh.

>> also gift him they gift him money like every year like at Christmas time. >> Who? His parents?

Yeah, his parents they'll give him like 10,000 or 20,000 dollars and that's kind of what Oh, wow. he lives off of cuz all all he has to pay for his own, you know, like gas and then you know, substances and >> So y'all are not food he wants. Okay, so So money's not combined. So he makes 10 to 20,000 from his parents once a year and then some odd jobs.

And he's in charge of a certain number of bills. You pay probably the mortgage and other things and it comes out of your salary.

Yes, I pay I pay the mortgage, all of our utilities. Um we do now, as of the last couple months, we do split the child care bills.

Um because I was, you know, frustrated that he didn't want to stay home or work and so I said that was kind of the deal is we needed >> Oh, Hannah. Do you feel like you have major marriage issues?

Yeah, no, we I feel like you do.

>> [laughter] >> I feel like you do. >> Well, because what's interesting, Hannah, always, and John can get into this, but money's usually a revealing topic on how the marriage is doing.

Usually it's not really a money issue.

It's more a reflection of what's going on in the marriage. And so when you're everything you're describing to me is it is that he doesn't hold a lot of character in who he is as a person. Not only is he not being upfront and honest with you with what he's doing on the days that he's like driving back to his old town, which kind of I don't feel good about that. Let alone not working, not wanting to participate as a married couple in the household responsibility.

Like all of that to me is a breakdown of character, which will be a breakdown in the marriage cuz that's who you're married to. So Hannah, I have a hard thing to say. Is that cool? Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Just for the rest of this call I don't want to hear about this this guy at all. Okay?

Okay. And this is why.

You he has no character.

He's not he's Speaking on behalf of all men, this is not a man.

Okay? He's not somebody that's taking care of their kid. He's not somebody that's taking care of their wife. He's not somebody who who has enough dignity when they look in the mirror to get up and go to work and be somebody who provides, somebody who provides more than they take.

Okay? But you can't make him do anything.

Right. And so where that leaves you with is a series of really hard choices.

And so my question for you is what are you going to do next? Because just sitting at home wanting this to be different and thinking, well, fine then you have to Venmo me for all of the iced tea you drink. Like that's not a solution, right? Yeah. He that's that's

just you trying to flick him in the ear back while he's you know what I'm saying? So it's not a solution.

The ultimate question is are you going to leave?

Or if you're not, then

if you are, that's one track. If you're going to stay, then you're saying, okay, I'm choosing to stay here. I'm choosing to if there

is good somewhere in this in this man, I'm choosing to look at that and I'm going to make peace with what I've got.

And I've got to go solve this math problem I have financially. I got to solve child care. I I got to go solve these problems.

You get what I'm saying? But sitting in the limbo just waiting for somebody else to be different, he's not going to change. Okay, let me I'm asking John this on your behalf, Hannah, cuz as you explain that, I agree. But if she So say she did part one, right? And she leaves.

Yep. Is there is there a reality though that she sits him down and says, I need X, Y, and Z to change or I'm leaving?

Yeah. Like Like is that Absolutely.

Yeah. But but that just it it if you if

you will tell me there's no way I'll I'm ever going to leave him. I've been through divorce before. I will not do that again. Okay, then that's good for you to know. That's a that's a boundary for you. So now I have to learn to live inside these castle walls that I've built for myself. If that is an option,

then yes, I think he deserves as your husband, even though he's failing every way from here to Sunday, he deserves here is a path to trust. Here is a path that you can walk that would reestablish you as my

co-creator of the life that we want to build together. So Hannah, my question to you is is option one and two on the table or are you someone that because of what you've gone through, you're like, nope, it's just going to be option two and I'll have to go from there. Do you know just like as a knee-jerk reaction?

Um well, sort of. So um and also part of why I called in, and I know this probably sounds awful, but it is something that I think about is So I have retirement through my job um through the school district, plus I have um an IRA and a 401k that I put money into. Like I'm very very financially responsible. I don't have any debt other than my mortgage.

>> Yeah. Um and he has he has a ton of debt. Like he racks up credit card debt, obviously, cuz he he doesn't work.

>> Maybe. Okay, well, that's good to know.

And then I I would challenge you to not make any of those assumptions without sitting down with an attorney.

Okay. Every state's different. Every situation's different. Um some states have like boilerplate like this is just how we do this and other states take into all sorts of other things into account. So don't make any like, well, since this is true, sit with an attorney and get those those answers.

Okay. Yeah, he's um I mean, obviously, like you I mean you guys are correct. Our marriage is not is not great because I have resentment because he refuses to provide for his family and he has resentment towards me because um there's, you know, I mean it's it's a it's a long story, but there's significant lack of intimacy in our marriage on my part. And part of that is my resentment towards him.

The other part is I almost died in childbirth and it's been a series of surgeries and medical things that have happened since then. >> My gosh. Dude, that sounds Yeah, that's a that's a lot to unpack. So I would I would probably sit down with someone.

>> Yeah, call somebody today. You can call our friends over at BetterHelp.

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies

and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family.

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zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Next up, we have Francisco in West Palm Beach, Florida.

Hi Francisco, welcome to the show.

Hello, thank you. Thank you for having me. Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

Well, my question is cuz I'm I'm 30 years old and I have about 350 grand in

debt. Um So, yeah, but I was thinking these days of at least declaring the companies bankrupt or I don't know if myself as well, but uh but yeah, but I then um your videos came up and then I started thinking otherwise. Okay. [snorts] Um >> [sighs and gasps] >> gosh, Francisco. Hey, so how what kind of debt is the 350,000?

50,000 is on a line of credit that is to

the company, but it's personally guaranteed and about 45,000 is in credit

cards and then about 200 are on an SBA loan. Um it's

really two different loans for two different companies like 140 and

and 60,000 and the one for 60 is already in collections. They sent me a letter yesterday with um with like 20,000 in in administrative

fees and this and that and and that's why I started thinking all this and then we have four vehicles, two for the company and and two is my wife's

and I and and one is paid off for the company and and the rest we owe about 54,000.

Combined or on each?

No, on combined. >> Combined, 54,000 car. Okay.

Yes. Okay.

Um for the loans that have already gone into collection, how long has it been since you've been paying on those?

I've been paying since since COVID cuz it was a this COVID SBA loans, but um

but yeah, but I I was paying. I don't know what happened, but it entered into collection. I assume

Not paying enough or you're paying the minimum?

Yeah, I was paying the the the minimums on the on the on one of the SBA loans, the small one, but that one is already in collection.

And then the other one, I haven't paid it in over a year. Okay. And then that one is in collections as well. Is your business failing, brother?

Well, it is failing. I mean, it's I've been doing a lot of accommodations cuz it was a franchise and they take 10%.

They had me on an office um in an expensive office, whereas now

all the machines is in my garage in my house. And and yeah, all sorts of things. So,

you know, in the last year I've been fixing it to to at least um I'm saving like 8,000 a month with all the changes we've done. Okay, you're saving 8,000 within the business or after your take-home pay?

No, I in the business. Yeah.

>> business. Okay. Yeah. So, you're putting 8,000 away. How much how much will you make profit at the end of this year? If

if you keep if you keep it going, if you don't file bankruptcy, what do you project?

Um my projection is small. It would be like 50,000, 60,000. Oh gosh, what do you do?

It's a construction company. Okay. And are there multiple companies cuz when you said there was a VA loan out for one company and then I got another loan for another company, are there multiple companies or just the one? The other one is is sort of a consulting company.

A consulting company. Okay. And is that

still going? Are you still running that company or no?

Not really. We're we're stopping and it's been so slow in the last couple years that um we're yeah, we're not running it anymore. Okay.

What what do you have when I'm thinking of vehicles, I'm thinking of tools, I'm thinking of machines to liquidate? >> If you went and sold everything today,

everything, just sold it all, what would you garner? Like how much money would you have?

And one car that's paid off and and the machines and everything, I could probably sell it for maybe like 50 grand. I can probably get at least 40 grand.

Yeah. For What about the second car that you have a note on?

The other cars, I'm upside down in two of them with for about like 10,000 or so.

Okay. >> On each. Yeah.

Um okay, so you're bringing home about 60. Yeah, I mean yeah, you're this is a

this is a tough spot, Francisco. I mean, I I never want to gear someone towards bankruptcy cuz we always want to look for a solution out and the only solution I see for you on the horizon is going to be to get to do what you can with the business to liquidate, you know, take whatever what John was saying, anything that you can sell to get money back out of it. Um I would

try to negotiate. You're going to have to find the cash, but once you have some cash, if stuff goes into collections, you will be able to negotiate some of those things. I'm not sure about the VA loan and all of that, but And the SBA administrative fees, I don't know any about anything about any of that stuff. >> that whatever that looks like.

Cuz but for most most people that hold a debt that's in collections, whether this is credit card, medical, whatever it looks like, once it gets to collections, they're going to assume that you're not paying it, that you don't have the money for it, right? And you don't right now. So, what I would say, my hope would be that you can find, you know, multiple jobs, if you're married, have having your spouse work. I mean, like whatever you can do to earn some money during this time to start getting a plan to look at these look at this debt and say, okay, how can we slowly, especially with the ones in collections, how can we start negotiating some of this down?

And then the credit cards, I mean, honestly, I'd probably let those go to collections. Like I think you you don't have the money for them right now, right? So, if you look up in 12 months and those are in collections, is there a way you can settle that. So, it it would take probably good three to four years to climb out of this, uh Francisco, but but that would be the way to avoid bankruptcy.

>> You're going to have to go get two or three jobs. Your wife's going to have to get jobs. Y'all going to have to go work like crazy. Yep.

Um call Listen, I want you to call our friends at Guardian Litigation.

and they're a nationwide law firm that helps with debt settlements, with collection issues and they might be able

to give you some guidance on, okay, the SBA stuff, don't worry about this or the credit like they'll be able to give you some sort of guidance like line by line with your various creditors and who's serious and who's not and all that kind of stuff. So, check them out at guardianlit.com/ramsey um and they'll give you some support and some help there. >> Yeah, I'm so sorry. What a absolute mess. All right, let's go to Elizabeth in Honolulu. Hi Elizabeth, welcome to the show.

Hello, thank you for taking my call.

>> Yes, how can we help?

Yes, it's it's a two-part question.

Um my husband and I are on baby step two and have about $8,000 debt left at 0%.

>> Okay. Um I'm I'm returning from the military in about six to eight months. I joined when I was 17. The military has been my entire adult life. We're planning to buy a home using a VA loan.

We currently have about $21,000 save in

savings and we expect to save around another 50 combined by June. Okay.

>> My first question is should we pause and stack cash for the house or should we pay off the $8,000 now to fully complete

baby step number two? Yes, that, the latter. So, go ahead and pay off the 8,000 and then I want you to have a fully funded emergency fund, Elizabeth, uh before you purchase the home because once you guys get into this home, stuff is going to start to happen and if you have no cash available to support yourself as you're a homeowner, it's going to go bad real quick, okay? So, I want you to So, you can use some of this 21,000 um you know, in order for that to

be part of your emergency fund. And maybe that is your full emergency fund. I'm not sure what your expenses are, but I would get a three to six-month emergency fund. And then the fact that you guys can save 50,000, that's amazing. So, I would get at least a 5%

down payment on a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage where your payment is no more than 25% of your take-home pay. So, when you do all that math, um if that's enough, then yes, then that's um yep, a great a great place to start. And hey, and Elizabeth, too, I would avoid the VA loans. If you can go just get a traditional just a traditional mortgage, 15-year fixed, that's VA loan they they tend to have higher fees. There's a lot of stuff and it seems like a really great um option

espe you know, obviously from being in the military, but as you factor it all off math mathematically, your best bet is just to go get a traditional mortgage, but again, I would do a 15 versus a 30. >> Can I throw one other idea, Elizabeth?

Sure. Are you are you going to be staying in Hawaii or are you going to be moving somewhere off the island? Uh we plan to either California or Texas, but most likely Texas. Can I throw a a a second option out there?

Sure. Go exhale for the first time and rent for a year.

Get to know an area, get to know what you like. This is the first time you've been in your house and you'll find I want the cat the kitchens to look like this, the bathrooms to feel like this.

If you race out and buy something in a new state that you haven't lived in, it's just a recipe for, ah, we should have, I wish we had have. Just go rent for a year and keep piling up cash and then buy the house that you really, really want.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Up next, we [music] have Walt in Baton Rouge. Hi, Walt. Welcome to the show.

Yeah, hi. Thank you both for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, my question is about charging rent to my adult daughter. She's 23 years

old. She has been a registered nurse since she was 19 and she's worked full-time since the summer of '22, so almost 4 years. Okay. She still lives at home with us and she's going to grad school and in May of this year, she'll actually graduate and be a nurse practitioner.

Good for her. That is good for her. Great. Um, her tuition reimbursement from her employer pays the lion's share of this and she has no debt and has just been piling up cash.

That's awesome. All right. So, money-wise is in good shape there. In back in April '24, I began charging her rent of $300 a month plus a third of groceries to split those costs with me and my wife.

She now likes to say that I'm stealing from her and of course the relationship is tense. Uh, but she does not want to move out either.

Uh, she likes to say that none of her friends have to pay rent to live at home. Uh, we did tell her at some point that she could live here as long as she's in school, but we never expected it was going to be, you know, well into grad school like this. Uh, my wife and I do not need the money. Our intent was to show her that life has a cost to it. So, really the question is, how should we approach this with her to maintain the relationship in a healthy manner?

Those are those are two separate ends.

Um, or let me say this, the jeez, what an absolute mess.

>> Well, if she didn't say that you were trying to that you were stealing from her, I feel like I would have a totally different I was so on her team. And then that, I'm like, "What are you doing, girl?" You're a good dad and you and your wife are loving your daughter well.

Okay. Thanks. >> Okay. So, well done. I applaud you.

Bravo. You're not doing anything wrong. You're not doing anything wrong. In fact, you're I I'm surprised at that kind of statement, right? Is she saying it seriously or is she playing with you? Is she messing with you?

John, she has said this in the last week to us. >> Okay. I know, but like in a serious Is she playing like, "Oh, you're Y'all are stealing from me." Oh, it's not playing. It is with a mean spirit. >> Okay. Absolutely. I I I'm not going to have a mean spirit in my home.

And especially when I've been trying I I there's a history of I've been loving you well for all of this time.

And my wife and I have been your chief cheerleader through your whole life.

And we've given you such an incredible head start on the real world. Um, anything other than gratitude it like then that that's a behavior's a language, that's her saying, "I don't want to be in a relationship with you anymore." Or I don't want to be a part of this arrangement anymore.

And so, when I say it's two different ends, the right thing to do is to sit down and have a hard conversation, which is, "Hey, we've been trying to love you well and this is turning. I don't understand where this is coming from." And to let the adult who's about to be a nurse practitioner, right, allowed to be allowed to write scripts and deal directly with people's health and well-being, um, allow her to have a hard adult conversation.

And if she chooses to end the relationship, to sever it, to to

to do what is happening over the country, yeah, which is like, "I'm cutting you off." That will be heartbreaking and I would grieve the crap out of that.

But, she's an adult and she gets to make that kind of irrational choice, that kind of heartbreaking choice.

Cuz you know who says what she's saying? My daughter. And my daughter's nine.

My 9-year-old is supposed to say, "Well, other kids get smartphones." She's supposed to do that. My 15-year-old is supposed to stay say stuff like that cuz they're 9 and 15.

That's developmentally appropriate.

Right? Right. It is disrespectful and I it's

just hurtful for a grown adult who has

been given such an amazing gift.

>> bucks, Walt, for rent? Yeah. That's $10 a day. It's not like thir- thir- $1,300 that she should be paying for an apartment that she's probably about to live in, right?

I'm like, so it's not even like a crazy amount either. >> No, it's it's it it literally the answer is the same answer I would give to my daughter, which is, "I know I love you more than clearly your friends' parents love her love them." But, that that won't fly, right? That's not a Don't say that. Well, my question is, when did it change cuz you guys you said since 2024, so it's been almost 2 years.

When did the when did the shift happen? Just in the last week? I can't say that it's happened in the last week. It's been kind of coming for a little while.

I will tell you this, once she started getting involved with young men as well, too, that's kind of been the turn of this and I will tell you recently, um, she met a guy back last summer.

they got engaged after only about 12 weeks and it happened when my wife and I

were out of town and they did not tell or involve either set of parents. Ooh.

She's not pregnant or anything. Um, we don't like her choice in men. He has some character defects, dishonesty, laziness. He wants her to pay for his grad school and among other things as well, but she doesn't want to listen to advice. She ignores the red flags and

um, that mean and spiteful nature comes out whenever there's conversations that come up like that as well, too.

Well, but here's the deal. When she chooses like [snorts] as as a 24-year-old, she can date and and I say this without due respect, she can date whoever she wants to. She can marry whoever she wants to.

But, when she accepts the, um, when she takes

your generosity and says, "I want to live in your house," then even though she's 24, she is saying, "I'm going to live under the rules of my landlord." Yes. And I'm I if I started renting a house from a local guy here in town, I would be subject to that person's landlord rules, right?

Yeah, absolutely. >> That's the way that works. And so, if she doesn't like your rules, she doesn't like you saying, "I don't like this guy." or whatever, then she has to make a big grown-up adult decision and say, "Then I don't want to live in I can't have my cake and eat it, too, right?" Right. >> do whatever I want. I can't not listen to their like, right? And you get to set the terms, you're the landlord.

And it sounds like your terms have been incredibly fair. Is she still engaged, Walt? She is. Okay. So, when Have they planned the wedding? Like, is there a

He wants to rush it up. She's trying to she So, she's going on after this spring, she's going on to the extra four semesters to get her doctorate as a nurse practitioner and she wants to wait. And so, there's that tension there as well, too, but um, it's it's

it it's bleeding over. It definitely is and she's not happy. I didn't know if the wedding was like in April or something and and all this would just be a moot point in 3 months or what.

He would love for it to be as soon as they graduate because he graduates from undergrad in May. She She graduates with her master's in May. Yeah, I mean, he sees his meal ticket, man. He wants to lock that thing up as quick as he can.

That's what we're trying to tell her. Well, let me let me say this, too. There is I worked with college students and grad students my whole career, okay, before I came over to do this thing.

Um, there is I I don't know a psychological fancy term for it. I'll just call it a phenomenon where when

parents and and kids, whether they're 18, 17 and 18, or they're 25 and 26,

when there is a pending or inevitable separation, sometimes people get super, super, super clingy and sometimes people manufacture

conflict so that the separation is palatable.

Like subconsciously? I I don't think intentionally. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think like I need to move. I don't want It's hard to move. I need to move like and so I'm going to find a bunch of {quote} {unquote} reasons why I got to get out of here. Okay? And so let's take the best case scenario and say that's what's actually happening. She knows I've I've done my time here. I need to get my own place.

I'm I'm going to marry a guy that my folks don't like. Like it's time for me to grow up and she's had a really good thing for a long time. Here's where you can cut right through all of that.

You can take her out to breakfast. You and your wife can take her out. Probably one of y'all would be better that way it doesn't feel like two against one.

And you can say I'm not going to fight you. I love you too much.

You will never ever have a cheerleader as big as me. I got to fight you.

Here's what I think is right in my home.

I love you enough to keep up to always say what I think is best for you. If you ask me to stop talking to you about it, I will.

But here's the rules for if you want to live in my house. Here's Here's Here's the situation what what's going to be.

But it's you cutting through it like I'm not going to fight you. I'm not going to manufacture fights. I'm not going to go to war with you. I love you too much for that.

Um but I'll always be your cheerleader. I think just cutting through all that nonsense and saying I'm going to stick by my my my >> Which is a healthy balance. It's the day It's still It's still him having integrity within himself of being it but yet it's like I'm going to still be your dad. I'm going to always be your dad no matter what.

>> [music]

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Well, that's good to see some rates at five, you know? We They were holding steady >> Ta-da!

So, it's good. It's good going in the right direction especially for home buyers out there. All right, let's go to Elizabeth who is in St. Louis. Hi Elizabeth.

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help today?

Um so, my husband and I we purchased a double wide six years ago and our

interest is 10.44%.

And >> Whoa! 10.44 is that what you said? Yes.

>> Okay. Yeah. It's It's pretty high.

Um I was kind of wanting some insight on what you guys would do in our situation.

We want to get out of it out of it as quickly as possible. Um I just kind of wanted some insight on that. Out of the double wide?

Yes. >> Okay. So, how much >> get a or a cheaper payment or should we refinance? I'm just not sure. Sure.

Uh how how much is left on the on the loan? Uh the owe $72,676.

Yep. Um How much do you guys make a year? My husband just got a new job. He is at

$26 an hour now and I'm a stay-at-home mom. >> So, on average how much is he bringing home a month?

Um

Um

I'll have to do the math. He handles the finances so I really I'm not I'm not 100% on that. Okay. So, you don't know how much you guys make a month?

Um I I can check. I just know I'm supposed to be fast. Let me like Okay. No, you're fine. You're fine. Um how much is your payment on this?

Um the house payment is $940.31,

but it is going to jump up to 956 in February for insurance and taxes.

>> Which is just an extra $16, right? Yes.

>> Okay. So, 956. I'm wondering yeah how is he making Yeah. Um That's a way lower house a

a living price, I'll say cuz this isn't a house, but that's a way lower monthly

rent than we hear from anybody a monthly mortgage. Yeah, I think just the main thing is just how high the interest is. If we stay in this thing and pay just the payment over a course of so many years, how much interest we're paying. It's just Yeah. Well, let's say he makes you

know, I don't know four I mean ideally hopefully he's making four grand a month at least cuz that'll be a fourth of your take-home pay, which means that this isn't a crazy percentage of your income.

That would be very reasonable.

If he makes around four grand and so what you guys would have to do Do you guys have any consumer debt?

Um we have

The only debt we have is on our truck.

We owe $23,864.62.

Okay. And then we owe 7,000 in medical.

Okay. Then 1,100 on our phones. Okay. And then

400 for our credit cards. Okay.

Okay, perfect. So, what I would do Are you guys wanting to stay in this double wide or you When you say we want to get out, is it you want a different rate or you want out of this cuz you guys want to go own a home? Like what Where Where are you guys at? >> eventually we would want to build a house.

>> right now. No, I'm not in a rush. I just for right now just a different >> what you could If If you were to sell it, I'm not suggesting that, but if you were, do you know how much it's valued at right now? I have no idea.

>> Okay. So, I would figure that out Elizabeth because most I mean depending on We hear kind of We hear kind of two different rules of thumb with this number wise on the show.

time these go down in value. They usually do not hold their value. So, I'm just curious um from what you from what it's worth versus what you you know, could sell it for um because you may be a little bit underwater on it. I don't know. But if I were you all um the first thing Elizabeth is I want you and your husband to sit down. Excuse Bless you, John. Excuse me.

>> [laughter] >> Sit down and I want you guys to look at the at look at all of your numbers Elizabeth cuz I want you to know. And this isn't to shame you. This is very common in a marriage. One person kind of just does the money and the other person's like great, you know, you just tell me.

But I want I want you to know. I want you to know how much he makes. I want you guys to do a written budget to say okay, here's how much that we spend on groceries. Here's the light bill.

Here's the mortgage. Here like here is everything we spend in a month. And I want you both to agree on it. Because what's going to happen too is I want you to slash anything you can out of that budget because your next goal as a couple is to pay off debt.

And I want the phones and the credit cards I would make it a goal to pay it off in the next 30 days.

And then we're going to work up to the $7,000 debt. And then we're going to work up for the truck. But for the truck, do you know um do you know what it's worth right now? Are you guys underwater on it at all? Um he just purchased it. It's a 2023

um Toyota Tacoma. Okay. So, I So,

depending on what you guys make in a year Elizabeth, if you guys cannot pay this truck off in a year to 18 months, you need to sell it. You can't afford it. Okay. Okay.

That sounds good. Yep. So, So, you guys just you guys need need a game plan. And the And the the mortgage I don't think cuz I don't know your income, which makes this really difficult cuz I'm not able to kind of like extract exactly the numbers. Um but it if he's making around $4,000 this this payment is not your issue.

It's other things happening with debt payments and all of that if you guys are tight and don't have margin. Okay. Yeah, and I did check and it's around $1,000 a week and Oh, perfect. Yeah. Okay, great.

Yeah, so that's around $4,000. Is Is there anything Sometimes when we're stressed about money and we sometimes that stress comes from there's a literally not enough to pay the bills, but sometimes that stress comes from we just don't know. We just don't know. We just don't know. It's easy to fixate on one thing and

make it that one thing

the the grand like this this huge dragon

that we have to slay.

Right. And could it be that your lack of I don't really know how much we make every month. I don't know exactly what all of our bills are. I'm just looking at these debts. It's that your focus just lasers in on that 10% and it's like we got to fix this, we got to fix this, we got to fix this. You get what I'm saying? Is that Could that be true?

Um it could be. Yes.

My husband he thinks we need to file bankruptcy, but I don't think we should.

>> No. Not even close.

Thank you guys. No. Not even in the same universe. >> Elizabeth, we just talked to someone with almost like $400,000 in business debt and he makes $60,000 a year. So Yes. I watch you guys all the time.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Y'all are nowhere near bankruptcy. Y'all should just quit buying stuff y'all can't afford. Like this truck. >> Oh, yeah.

Yes. Absolutely. But he is pretty attached to it. He I don't think it's >> care. I'll focus on the credit card and the Well, no. No. No. Y'all focus on y'all's future that y'all are building together. Yes. And this might mean you

You're not going to like me saying this. It might mean that for a season you go get a job.

Right. Because for the next 12 or 18 months we're both going to do And he's got to get a second job on the weekends.

Yeah. And honestly I'm all for it. Like I could do like grocery pick up or something. Right now I have 202. So I've been making homemade soap from home and I've been selling that. But that doesn't bring a lot of income in. Yeah, but something creative from home, right?

That we're we're doing something. That's I think that's the key that there's movement happening. And you know And And here's the thing too, Elizabeth. This plan to do this kind of stuff it hits the ego right in the heart.

And And what it does is it takes someone that has is used to a certain level of lifestyle, a certain truck, or whatever the thing is. And it knocks it down a level or two, okay? And that's hard for That's hard for any anyone, right? We like progress. We like to see results.

We like to be moving forward. And the feeling like we're moving back in lifestyle is emotionally difficult, but mathematically you guys are going to start to see so much margin open up.

Like even Even this truck payment, you know how much it is a month?

Um it's around 530 around there.

>> that's like half your mortgage.

>> That's crazy, >> [music] >> right? So So even if y'all didn't have that and all these debt payments, like that could be close to like 800 900 bucks a month coming back to you guys. [music] So you're looking at the math and understanding this is the advantage that we have is so important, but getting on the same page and communicating to him your fears, your dreams, Elizabeth, is really really important, too. [music]

>> [music]

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show [music] in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio.

I'm Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with best-selling author and host of The Dr.

John Delony Show, John Delony. And so we are here to answer your questions. Give us a call at 888-825-5225.

All right. Let's go to Amanda in Denver, Colorado. Hi Amanda. Welcome to the show. Hi guys. Thank you so much for talking to me today. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

So my husband and I have been married for 17 years. I am 42 and he is 48. And uh

we made peace a long time ago with not having children. So we haven't been the best stewards of our dual income no kids money over the years. >> Okay. Um we haven't been the worst. Uh we don't carry any debt other than our mortgage, but we have very little in savings and no retirement.

Uh last August God surprised us with a

baby. Oh.

>> [laughter] >> Congratulations.

Thank you. Yeah. So um we are late in

life parents and kind of caught in the

cross hairs here going, "Oh my gosh. We didn't prepare for this." So >> Yeah. Um in hindsight, you know, I know we should have been planning for retirement for ourselves all along even without a baby, but now with a baby I feel like I am at ground zero and I have no idea what to prioritize and where to

start to give us a fighting chance at not only retirement, but just you know, solid financial stability while raising this baby in this crazy expensive world.

>> Totally. Are you guys both working?

Um I quit my job in April when I was about halfway through my pregnancy and I am currently a stay-at-home mom. >> Okay. Are you going to go back at all?

Do you know? Or will you wait probably for a bit and be a stay-at-home mom? I will I will wait for a bit. Um the intention is to not. I'd like to just remain a stay-at-home mom, but >> Good. Yeah. Yeah. But at least for the first 3 years, 3 to 5 years. No, that's great. Love it. How much does your husband make?

He makes 90,000 a year. >> 90,000. Okay. Do you guys have any consumer debt?

No. No. Okay.

Um any savings? Just cash savings?

>> I've I've got about $30,000 in bank.

Okay. That's great. Good emergency fund.

Okay. So what's wild is and I'm just going to run some rough numbers here. Um we have an investment calculator on ramseysolutions.com.

So check it out because that's just always like a It's kind of a fun thing just to piddle with and look. But let's say cuz we always say to save around 15% of your income. So I'm I just threw in a thousand bucks a month. Say you you guys invested a thousand bucks a month and you guys have nothing right now. Um and we'll say your husband's 48. I'm going to use his numbers since he's the one working. Um and then let's say he retires at 67 at a 10% rate of return, that's about $676,000.

So that's not as much as I would probably want. So what if we just Again,

I'm just messing around with this. Let's just say we um you doubled it, then that would be 1.3 million. If you guys saved two grand a month.

Because the Because the reality is too, his income's going to go up, right?

Throughout his 50s he'll be making more.

Um So I think you guys if you start now,

I think you will end up being fine. I mean, do you think after all is said and done, I mean, if you if you guys had 1.3 million at when he's 67 in order to

retire for instance. Yeah. And you guys, you know, if it was a 10% rate of return, you know, you'd be making 130,000, but you won't want to take all of that. So let's say 70,000 of that to live off of at retirement if everything was paid off, you know, that could probably be a possibility, right?

So all that to say, there's still hope. It's not like you guys are um doomed by any means. But yeah, I I would start, right? And And maybe be a little bit aggressive towards it.

Uh we owe 130 and there's about 300,000 in equity in it. So >> Okay. Great. No, that's awesome.

>> the other ditch effort would be do we sell the house and take that, you know, all the money and start kind of moving, you know? >> No, I wouldn't [snorts] do that. You're just robbing Peter to pay Paul there. >> Yeah, y'all are fine. You're good. >> Yeah. And And we have our our mortgage is it's 3.85, so it'd be silly to Yeah.

No, I think you guys are good. I'd pay that house off. I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro, Amanda. You can go to ramseysolutions.com and find one in your area. But I would map out to say, "Okay.

Let's open up um He needs to have a Roth IRA. You can do a spousal Roth IRA." Uh does he have Does his company have a 401k?

I think they do. >> Okay. Well, I would ask.

Yeah. And see if they do a match. Um yeah, cuz there's definitely there's definitely a path for you guys to have retirement, 100%.

Um but again, it will be you guys, yeah, jumping on the train and you know, moving forward with it. But I would sit down with someone and look over your entire financial picture. Cuz you're in a great spot, Amanda. I mean, honestly, you guys have no debt.

You have $30,000 in savings. And then you guys are going to just start putting some money away monthly uh toward this retirement. And with compound interest and all of it, it's great. It's That's the best time to start is now.

is the phrase I just want to get back to.

Mm. Right? Like remember when I should have back in the day we should have been saving money. I just want to get back to we could just go out to eat whenever we wanted and we could The couples that I see do well are the ones that Oh, we have a baby at 42 and 48, right? >> Yeah. Who can put a period at the end of that old life Mhm. and not try to reclaim what was, but to rebuild something totally new. And it's saying,

"We had our fun. We spent it. We went on every vacation. That was a That was awesome.

And now, inside this new world we live in with a kid, with Oh gosh, we need retirement. This kid might want to go to college. All those things. Um we're going to have to create a new kind of awesome inside this new world.

And the couples that live in that reality, Mhm. what they come up with to to co-create in their life is amazing. It's awesome. The ones that are trying to live this life, but keep their looking back at the old them, dragging it behind them, >> man, it just becomes such a weight.

So true.

Borrowing, cheating, all these things.

Because they're carrying around this past and instead of just saying, "Dude, all right, this is our new world and we're going to go fully into it, right?" That is so interesting cuz I would think if you're carrying what what you wanted or what you thought would be, then you kind of like your your creativity, your brain move It all kind of just stops there. >> It doesn't allow you to say, "Okay, if I have this whole forward life, what are we going to do differently? What what can we do creatively to change up what we want if we want to get to this place?" >> become a hiking couple, right?

We're going to We're going to We're going to You know what? We're going to learn how to camp cuz that's what we have money for. Yeah.

>> Yeah. But we're going to live in this reality and we're not going to sit down there thinking about, "Oh, remember when?" We're going to fully embrace what we got and we're going to run forward with it. So good. Yeah.

And in this case, especially looking at retirement and numbers, I think living in the present realize, "Okay, this is our new life." They're going to feel broke for a while. >> now, what are we going Yeah, how are we going to shift this? >> to feel broke cuz 2,000 bucks a month that they used to just blow on whatever Yes. >> is going to go into an account for future them.

Yes.

>> Right. And great, cool. Feel that feeling and then just go do the next right thing. That's right.

That's right. And what's wild, you guys, is when you're looking at this kind of stuff, like wherever you are financially, if you're in your mid-40s, if you're in your 60s and you haven't started, like the point is to start as soon as possible, right? That's key because time is on your side. And even with their numbers, what's wild is the contributions they would put in with the example of two grand a month, which is a lot.

That's pretty aggressive. >> of money. Yeah, and I was just messing with numbers there, right? Probably a thousand is more realistic for 15% for them.

But what's wild is their contributions would be around 456,000, but the growth is almost 900,000.

Like the growth starts to outpace the principal so quickly when you realize, "Okay, if I can just start as early as possible, that that's on your side." It really is. >> could almost guarantee you they're going to go sit down with their 401K, their HR person and they'll be like, "Oh, we have an 8% match and we have a >> Yes. like, "Oh, we didn't know any of that stuff." And there's more, yes. But it's all about creating this new life [music] and this new future and these new goals, which is what Amanda and her husband are doing.

So, we applaud you guys, Amanda.

>> [music]

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Not available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Nora in Massachusetts.

I've been dating my boyfriend for almost two years and he has about $60,000 in debt, car loan, credit cards, etc.

He says he wants to get out of debt and he often complains about money, but I still see him spending on non-essentials.

He takes weeks to pay me back even after reminders. I've offered support without wanting to be pushy, but our financial habits and lifestyles don't seem aligned. Would I be wrong to end the relationship over financial incompatibility even though he says he's {quote} working on it? Mhm.

Well, saying one thing and doing another Yeah, behavior's a language. >> is very different. >> Behavior's a language. You're not crazy.

And honestly, no, which I hate this cuz I feel like money easily can be one of these topics that I'm like, "It's just shallow. Don't worry about it. Love can conquer all." That's what I want to believe in life, but the truth is, too, money speaks so much about who we are and how we do life, how we function in life. And when you're not compatible with that, there's going to be a I'm not going to say a constant conflict happening, but it's going to be an uphill battle. M- Money to me here is uh

you said this in an earlier show is a revealer. Yes.

Cuz if I'm looking at a guy who says, "I want to do this," but then he goes and behavior's a language, does a bunch of other stuff, says a bunch of other stuff with his actions, is he going to be the kind of guy that's like, "I want to be a good husband, Yes.

but da da da or I want to show up for

our kids, but right?" And so, I

especially at a young age, I'm assuming they're young. I'm just guessing here.

Um I want to see potential.

I want to see somebody that keeps their promises to themself.

And I want to see somebody that makes a plan doesn't stick to it perfectly, but >> Sure. tries to stay on a path.

>> Yes, is moving forward. >> he wanted to get out of debt, he'd sell his car and get rid of the car loan.

He would say, "Hey, we got to start eating at cheaper places. I hope you'll still like me." And it sounds like you'd be like, "Oh, thank god. I love you, right?" Um but it's it is Yes. the money is just the the flashing light that this is a guy who says one thing, but he does another thing.

That, if you were my sister or my daughter, that would be what I would say. I want you to look out for that thing. The red flag, yes. Like own owning 60,000 bucks of debt, w- what I say, "Don't marry somebody in debt?" No.

But if the person is, man, if your guts are telling you, "Dude, he's not a guy he's a guy who says one thing and does another," that's enough to make me back up a little bit. >> Yes, and you saying like I've offered support without all the stuff and then in that kind of situation, Nora, it's one of those couples that you end up being like his mom. You be you're in more of a parental role >> loaning him money. You're his bank.

You're his mother. You're not >> care of him. You're Yeah. uh having to help him be responsible, right?

And then you end up being in like this like motherly role and that's weird. And that happens a lot in marriage. We talked to a lot of uh couples where women, you know, are in that situation or men on the other side. So, um so yeah, Nora, it's not the fact that he has debt by any means or, you know, that like you what John was saying, it's the fact that he's not following through with what he said and that he's living with a set of values around money that you don't agree with.

Mhm.

whether we like it or not, money fights and money problems are one of the main reasons of divorce in America because it just again, it conflicts with everything of how we do life on a daily day-to-day basis. Like you can't ignore that. And so, um it just I think it will be a stress point. It will be a reason you

don't sleep well at night. Uh what I mean? It's just all of that is magnified when you're married. So, uh yeah, if you guys can't get at least moving on the same page, again, not perfection, but moving towards the same page, um yeah, it may be it may be a deal breaker, which I hate so much, but that that's the reality. All right, let's go to Susan in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Susan.

Hi. Uh thank you for taking my call. Um

my family started a large home addition project last year in July. Um the

project that uh we're um paying about $313,000 for the project. And it was supposed to

be done by Thanksgiving.

And it It's not anywhere close to being done right now. >> Mhm. And so, um we we are new to this

kind of project. So, at initially, we just kind of trusted our contractor.

But as the time go went on, it just things didn't seem like it made sense and the timing that he was giving and as Thanksgiving went by, he kept on giving us, "Oh, it'll be done by this other date." And it's not done. And it's not done. And I just wanted your you guys' advice on how to proceed with just not, you know,

goals not being met on the project.

>> Yeah, is he just not showing up, Susan?

Like are there days and days and days that he that he's not even there or doesn't have any crews there?

Um there's not days and days and days, but maybe there's like a couple days that he says they will be there, but they're not there. Um but then they show up and so he keeps on communicating with us and um he shows

up, but it's not consistent.

Okay. Is it Is there any Is he giving

you a reason for why this is happening? Is it material? Yeah, what's he saying? What's his reasoning?

He's Well, we are using an Amish crew in Indiana. And so the Amish

um they have butchering days where they can't come because they all have to butcher. Um they have a car breakdown. He gives us different reasons throughout the whole thing. >> Okay. And so he's He At least like the pros of him is that he communicates and he's not giving up on the project. Like he hasn't disappeared. And the other

contractors are all saying >> low bar though, Susan.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, I know. >> he doesn't cheat on me. He's pretty great. And it's like, well, that's pretty low bar. >> Exactly. Yeah. Um This is the He also

has local connections. I'm sorry. Go Go ahead. Go ahead.

So he's using contractors locally that we have talked about with other people um and they say, "Oh yeah, he's a good guy." And so um and we we Anyway, so

um the options that we're thinking about right now to get this project moving faster and putting some pressure on him is do we write a new contract for him and say, "We know it's past. We need new

deadlines and new commitments." And some people have told us that we need to just hire a lawyer and be done with him and try to get as much money out of it. >> Have you already paid him the full 313?

We have a retainage of just 11,000 left

from the budget. >> So So you've given him 300 basically.

Basically, yeah.

Oh man.

I I And another Yeah. Well, I would have

I I think there's a combination. And Rachel, this is your world. Y'all do this stuff kind of work. Um I

I would sit down with him and say, "We've given you $300,000. This This job

is now going on 3 to 4 months overdue.

Um I'm I I'm very close to calling an attorney to get this thing settled and get my money back so that I can go hire somebody to do the work that you agreed to do by this date by this contract we have." And um and and I would have a new contract prepared and say by this date, this is what's going to be. And if he doesn't sign it, that's cool. Then he might call your bluff and then we'll need to go get an attorney and figure that out.

Yeah, cuz I mean with some real estate, you know, especially if you're doing a remodel or something like that, for some people they say like, "Okay, it's going to take twice as long and twice as expensive." Right? That's kind of the rule of thumb, which is which sucks, right? I mean, I think you can do it very much in a tightened up timeline and budget, which is what, you know, I've experienced before. Um But all that to

say, I do wonder for him, have you guys

had a level of intense conversation, a very direct and clear conversation with him or are you just answering him via text and calling it a day? >> Oh, no. We've had some direct conversation. We've talked to him about Not yelling at him, but our frustrations with um how the project has been handled. >> Sure. Um much more towards like, you

know, after um the deadline has been passed. So like in December we had lots of and now even more so this month.

>> Just You know, the deadline's been passed. They haven't been showing up as much as I think they should be to try to Mhm. um get it done as fast as possible.

>> I think I think the two things are you need a new deadline that's reasonable and he needs to be able to meet that deadline. And if not, yes, then maybe there is some some legal >> [music] >> um you know, processes that you go to. And also, and I'll be honest too, Susan, I don't know a ton about the Amish community, but you have chosen someone that's in a type of culture that I've never heard this. This is the first time ever that I've heard of this kind of problem.

>> that they have to take off or I mean, I don't know. I don't know.

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>> Open phones at 888-825-5225. [music]

Give us a call and we are answering your questions about life and money.

Up next we have Alice in Boise, Idaho.

Hi Alice, welcome to the show.

Hi, how's it going? Doing great. How can we help today?

Um okay, so I'll get right to it. I um

me and my husband have been married for a little over 2 years. We are debt-free

and we're looking to have financial planning. My husband's older brother is a financial planner. He's really good at his job. Um my husband has his retirement account with him and I have my retirement account separate. Okay.

>> Um we are My husband and I are both on the same page of putting our retirement accounts

into like a third party like a SmartVestor Pro. So we met with them on Monday. Um we're just looking for advice on how to talk to his brother about saying, "Thanks so much for being like willing to look over his accounts for him, but we're going to Mhm. we're going to go with the independent. So we're not mixing family >> I I I can tell you that the conversation I had with my uncle, who's a CPA, Uh-huh. He did my taxes for years. He's a He's like an amazing man of character.

He's awesome. And it got to a point where

I only reached out to him to ask for tax stuff.

And I remember thinking, "I want him to have the privilege of just being my uncle." And so I told him, "Hey, I'm going to get somebody else to do my taxes this year cuz I want you to just be my uncle now.

I want to be a guy I call for life advice, for wisdom, to check in on. Like he's one of the funniest guys I've ever met." So like I I told him, "I want I

want us to just have a regular relationship. I don't want us to have a client-customer relationship also." And he was he he was cool with it. But that that's what I used in my house. >> Yeah.

Alice, is your reason for wanting to switch, which I totally get. That may I mean, I don't think it's a weird thing to want to switch from your brother-in-law. Is it because he's not great or is it because it it's going to get awkward as he's looking at your numbers? Is it more of like a relational move or is it from like a competency standpoint?

No, he's completely competent.

don't mix finances and money. Mhm. I'm sorry, finances and family. Yeah. And then Um >> Has it been weird or you're scared it's going to get weird?

I'm just worried that in the future like life happens and then it could become an issue. That's my concern. Totally. Um

yeah, I think either way, let me give you like a another example of one that we stayed. And this is different than a brother-in-law. So I do think the family thing, you know, is fair to have some boundaries there. But our SmartVestor Pro, literally the guy that we go to that has all of our information, was a groomsman in our wedding.

He's like one of my husband's best friends, okay? And >> My SmartVestor Pro, too, was in my wedding. And his wife Yeah, and his wife was a bridesmaid. We actually set them up.

So like Like he's and he says And here's what I appreciate about him. Number one is like I He says every meeting, cuz we meet every January, like once a year we always sit down and look at everything. And he almost he starts out every meeting with, "Hey guys, if this ever gets weird, pull the plug. Like I am not offended.

I get it because numbers are so personal. And here I am looking at exactly how much you're getting paid." Like I mean, you see it all.

And And I think some people really can.

So I'm saying all that to say, on one end, it's your brother-in-law and it could get really weird. And just like John and his uncle. And it's like, "Hey, I just would rather like Yes.

>> even get weird. It was just I'm sorry.

Yeah, yeah. But But you just made the call. It's like, "I just want you to be my uncle." Or "I just want you to be my brother-in-law. I don't want to have to even worry.

I don't even want to have to even think walking in the door at Christmas if it's a down year and we're Like I don't even want you connected to our money just cuz I I just want you to be our brother-in-law. Like that is an okay answer. And then I will give a little bit of a freedom on the other end that if it's not gotten weird and you think like, "Hey, maybe, you know, we give permission to each other that down the road if we if we just like, "Hey, at any reason for any reason we want to switch, like we're all good and it's okay and let's just maybe wait and see." I don't know, right?

>> could. I I took a call on my show on on the John Delony Show this morning in uh in another studio um where a brother had

ooh like awful taken advantage of his younger brother in a business. Okay, so that could happen. But the other side of it and I would even go with the more common would there be anybody on the planet that would look after you and your husband's money with more intent like

scrutiny than his brother?

No, I mean he would do a great job. It would be And so I I think that's worth I I think I think trying to pro- project any weird thing that might happen one day into the future and drag that into the present is that's just I mean that's the definition of anxiety.

Yeah, no, for sure. Right, so For sure.

I think I love Rachel's idea of of starting every meeting and or y'all sit down and say, "All right, I'm about to move my money over." And look at him and say, "I love you and I'm I can't imagine trusting anybody on the planet more than you and I'm worried that one day this will be weird, so I just want to call it out if I ever if we ever decide to go with somebody else, I want you to know that we love you and you're our bro- like you you you know what I'm saying?

Um but Rachel's totally right. I he could if he's not a good guy, he could take advantage of you in ways that nobody else can, but man, if he's for you dude like he will move heaven and earth to make sure his brother and his nephews and nieces or whatever y'all decide to do one day like that they're okay, right? >> And and that's also Alice, no pressure to keep to stay with it. Like if you still get off this call and you're like, "Oh yeah, maybe I am projecting fear into the future and it hasn't happened yet, so maybe we stick with it for another couple years." That's great.

Or if we get off this call and you're like, "Ooh, I still don't like it." Have the conversation then of the "I just want you to be our brother-in-law and it's nothing about your competence. You're amazing. I love you. I just don't want to even second-guess anything when we see each other about money.

I just don't I don't want to combine the two and that's what makes you comfortable and your husband comfortable then you can say that. And I think and then go get a SmartVestor Pro, right? So, I think I think either one is okay. Can I ask you one other quick question while I got you?

You've I'm assuming you've told your husband this?

Yes, yeah. We're we're on the same page.

>> your husband has said, "I will leave my brother to go where you feel comfortable." Yep, he has. You married really well.

I did. >> That's awesome. I just want to shout out your husband, a guy that once he once he says till death do me part do do does us part that you come first. That's awesome. So good.

>> I love that, dude. >> Great question, Alice. Thanks for the call. All right, let's go to Aaron in Salt Lake City. Hi Aaron, welcome to the show. Hi Rachel, how's it going? Thanks for uh thanks for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

Well, I've kind of got some truck issues

and I've been told a couple times now that I might be emotionally attached to the truck and so I I'm just kind of looking for some advice so I don't make a stupid I have no idea what what this feels like, so >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I was about to say you're not the first dude. Yeah. Okay, so what what's going on? Can you afford the truck?

Yes, so the truck's I I have a small business. I do landscaping, so the truck is my livelihood. >> Okay. Um I have a smaller >> I owe nothing on it. And that's kind of where I'm sort of attached to the truck.

I had about uh okay, it's it's a complicated thing because I am capable of fixing this truck myself. >> Okay. But I can't take the time away

from work to have the truck down.

>> How much is the truck worth? >> And so it's worth about 14,000. >> Okay. What do you need to have done to it? Well, so it needed some motor work and then I hit an elk and after that >> Well, I think [laughter] any truck hitting an elk >> Did you did you dress it and eat it?

Gross. No, I they told me I couldn't. It was sad. Oh man, you called it in. Good for you for being a good citizen, but man. Okay, so so you feel like you're putting too much into it and it's breaking too much.

And once it's fixed from the elf or the the elf the elk incident, is it going to be okay?

Yeah, and I'm in favor of fixing it. I'd rather fix it. I I might be a little attached to it, but I I can fix it for like 3,500 bucks. I just need

well, I need something in the meantime.

It's going to be down two to three weeks at least and I have to use my truck every day. >> How much does it cost to pay somebody?

Pay somebody what? >> I I'll have to look into renting. It needs to be at least a 1-ton truck. No, no, no. How how much how much would it cost for you to take your car to a mechanic and say, "I need this back in 72 hours."?

So, I got a quote for 7,400 and it would be two weeks. >> Okay, so it'd be two weeks also.

And that's not including the body work, so really and the body work was 7,200.

>> Go rent go rent a truck for go rent a truck for two weeks and call it a day.

Get the truck fixed. >> yeah, cuz you're looking at renting a truck and you're looking at a car repairs. Let's say 10 grand total.

You're going to spend double, triple, quadruple that on a new truck.

>> Yeah. So, keep it.

>> I I don't know. If you love the truck >> hit it. You hit an elk. Like it's different if you're like putting a thousand dollars into it every two weeks cuz it's falling apart.

I don't know. I don't know much about trucks, but an elk is I mean that's [laughter] animals, so I would assume it would be in the shop. Yeah. Yeah. Keep it keep it, Aaron. Fix it and rent [music] rent for two weeks if you have to.

>> [music]

[music] >> Tax season is upon us. So, to get free checklists and guides [music] that will help you file, go to ramseysolutions.com/taxes.

We are here to help.

All right, let's go to Laura in San Antonio, Texas. Hi Laura, welcome to the show. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

I lost my job and now my investment

property is in foreclosure. Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry.

When did you lose your job?

Um it's well, I lost my job and then I got another job and then I was laid off off that job. Oh man. So, my I lost my second job December this past past December. Okay. >> When's the last time you made a payment on your investment property?

So, the investment property was a Airbnb

and then we listed it for long-term rental. When the uh renters moved out,

um I list I that's when I lost my job and as soon as I lost my job, I listed the home for sale with no leads. Um I was depleting my

savings. I had five months of savings and I paid every single month on time. I had excellent credit and I don't want to ruin it. But then I depleted my savings

and the realtors couldn't sell the house, so I changed realtors hoping that would solve the issues. Still didn't happen and after four months, um well,

they tried to do a short sale. That didn't work and after four months, that's when they they did a foreclosure on it. So, it's now in foreclosure.

Where is it in the process? Where are you guys at with the bank and everything? >> Um they the last letters we received were in December when I was laid off and they said that they were going to list it the first of the month. Okay.

>> Um to keep bids. >> Yeah. So, to be honest, I have no idea.

Okay. When will they when will they start that the auction process, do you know? It already started in December. They set a date for it. Oh, it started in December. And when will they >> close the bid? Like when will they close the bidding?

Um I have [clears throat] no idea.

Okay. Um so, I would probably get some some dates. I would call the bank and have you communicated with them at all since December or was that letter of communication the last?

So, when I called them, they said they can't help me that the loan is no longer

with them that it's in foreclosure and they don't give me any information. They're saying that the um short sale didn't go through. Yeah. And that now it's in foreclosure, so I have no idea who to call.

I've even called the F- FDA or I don't know the number what it is. Right, right. Well, that's ob- yeah, because the bank cuz it'll be a bank-owned property, right? At one point, but um what's you're on the hook for and everything is what I would you know, I I would want all the facts of their dates and and what their plan is.

to be able to help you is just that's that's crazy. Okay, so when was the when was Well, I guess it doesn't matter. It's already in foreclosure. I was going to ask when the last month that that you actually made the payment, but that would have been back in the fall, right?

Yes. >> Yeah. Okay, so for income for you, Laura, what are you what what were you doing for a job in December that you got laid off?

Um I was making 75,000 as a project coordinator. Oh, wow. So, an amazing job. How's your

um current residence right now? Your primary residence, how are you paying your mortgage for that?

Yes, so my husband covers all our primary residence bills and um mortgage

along with the food and gas, so that's helpful. So, the so the so the investment property was in your name and he let he let it go into for- foreclosure. You guys kept your money separate because you couldn't pay it, it goes into foreclosure?

It was under both of our names.

Okay, but he didn't have money either to be able to help with it?

No, so the only money that he has is to take care of our primary home where we live and all of our bills.

>> Okay. Since I don't have a job now.

>> And then he's and then he's out. His income just does that and then you guys have no other margin.

Yes. >> Okay. I I say this with all due respect cuz I care about you.

But you can't wait around for another $75,000 project coordinator job. You got to go get a job or two jobs or three jobs right now.

Making anything. Starbucks, uh Home Depot, any job cuz you have two issues.

One, you have a math problem you got to solve.

And the second thing is is you've got to get your feet back underneath you confidence-wise and man, there is no question about it. Rachel and I are sitting here in the in the ash with you.

Getting fired from two different jobs back-to-back and one's one at least one of them was a killer great job. That's heartbreaking and hard and

the solution isn't just sending out a bunch of resumes on LinkedIn or hoping that another one falls out of the sky. I just got to Right now I got a math problem I've got to solve and I got to get back on it in in in a big way. Right Rachel, I don't know where to I wouldn't even know who to call For that well, I mean I would continue well, they're going to continue to they'll continue to at least have to communicate with you at some degree. So whether it's letters which was you know, 20 days ago or whatnot.

But I would continue until it gets all buttoned up until the property sells to know everything. Like that that's what I would be doing. But honestly, the saving grace for is that it was a investment property. It's not your primary home.

So you're not losing your actual residence which is huge, but your credit I mean your credit score is going to be completely dinged.

It's [clears throat] It's just gone.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um but again, we don't worship at the altar of that either and I think moving forward what John's saying is exactly right for you guys. Get this all cleaned up which hopefully in the next gosh 30 60 days, um you know, you'll you'll have everything kind of buttoned up with that and then it's the moving forward process that you're going to have to be able to focus on and that's going to be that income. >> Laura, hang on the line.

Um I'm going to send you EveryDollar Premium app.

Cuz this may be uh this is going to be a really painful awful hard process with the foreclosure and all the letters you're going to get and all the threats you're going to get and all that kind of stuff. But Rachel, you just mentioned it and I'd miss this and I want to call it out.

This might be your chance for you and your husband to get completely off the credit score, the passive income, all

the nonsense that we're told signifies we have wealth in our in our culture.

And this might be a moment for you and your husband to completely change how y'all do money. And we're not going to owe anybody any money. As for our house, we don't borrow money anymore. We're going to get an emergency fund. We're going to be our own credit card. We're going to be our own support network and we're going to build wealth the old-fashioned way which is slowly and over time. And um hang on the line here.

We'll hook you up with those resources. I know this is a messy hard time. Yeah, for sure. But it is like it's a cautionary tale um and I'm sorry Laura that you have to be the example of it.

But guys, this is what we talk about with especially all these hacks and this stuff of like oh we can do this and this. We can Airbnb that and all of it. You know, for sure sometimes does it work? Absolutely.

But there's also a huge reality that it doesn't, right?

Here's an easy way to make money, you know, all this stuff. And people fall for it all the time. All the time.

>> sit on one side of the fulcrum, right?

They sit on one side of the teeter-totter and they're like look, it's always going to be like this and then reality crashes down on the other side of it. And And it and it and it's like you know, and it and it's the perfect storm. I mean Laura, seriously, you lose the job, someone gets sick, someone gets pregnant wants to stay home. Right?

I mean like anything in life that can happen, that's why carrying debt carries risk because when life happens, it's not if it does, but when it does, when life happens all the cards are on the table and if it's a house of cards that you've built and three of the bottom, you know, the foundation get fallen out, you know, fall out, the whole thing crumbles. And it that's what she's experiencing right now.

I'm going to if I can't if I can't pay for it in full, we're not buying it. You know, we are going to take our time building wealth over a proven method. What you do

is you create a really sturdy foundation. So if a couple of those fall, your whole thing is you know, you lose a job. Well, you have an emergency fund. You don't have consumer debt. You know, you you got 6 months, you know, saved over here. Like that's old school. Save for a rainy day. That's old school. It's not cool and awesome and so fun and this hack. But man, when life happens, you're not shaken, right? And and so that's common sense, you guys. That's biblical.

Like there's so much scripture in Proverbs about this about what just slow. The diligent prosper. Continue on

the path even though it's not flashy and exciting and you don't get cool Airbnbs and invest in this course that this 28-year-old guy is like look, I make a billion dollars a month off of this, you know, and everyone buy my course and everyone goes and buys it thinking they're going to be that. Like it's just it's not real. It's not real. Or the number of people who after all the expenses on like their Airbnb, they're like I make a thousand dollars a month.

And I ask them what their mortgage is and they're like well, it's 2700 and I think if you had just paid that off you would technically be making 2700 bucks in extra money.

>> right. That's right. >> so I'm going to pay 2700 so I can make a thousand and it's like it's such a weird trade. >> Yes, 100%. [music] I know you guys. So remember slow and steady, the boring way of building wealth, it's the safest and the less risky. >> [music]

[snorts]

>> Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds [music] Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with Dr. John Delony and we are taking [music] your calls at 888-825-

5225.

All right, let's go to Anne in Seattle, Washington. Hi Anne, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

So I've been engaged for almost 2 years.

Um about a year ago my fiance suggested

we consider getting a pre-nup.

We both have children who are adults now. We have our own property and we

both are self-employed with our own businesses.

Um I've been a single mom, never married and he was previously married for almost 23 years.

Um the property that I have is paid off and I don't have any debt. Um he's paying on a mortgage and he has some other debt although I'm not sure exactly how much.

Um so I'm trying to figure out how we plan our future together Mhm. if our assets and finances stay separate. Yeah.

I'm 46 and he's almost 50. So I feel like we still have so many years ahead of us for wealth building and Sure. you know, just putting a future together and

um Yeah, how much how much are your net worths? Like how if what what's your net worth? What what's his?

Um so uh after like taxes and expenses

with his business um so mine would be uh

worth like what I make every year or >> Um it can be that or just like what are you worth? Like if you put all of your >> Your house, your business, your cars, Yes. All your retirement, everything.

Oh, um so mine is probably

550,000

almost 600,000 and um I I know What about him? What's what would he be worth? So um I know his property and well, the house and the property combined are worth about 750, but he owes um 280 on the

mortgage. Okay, so 500 does he have a lot of um retirement?

I don't think he has any retirement. You don't think or do you know?

So Cuz in order to sign a pre-nup, you kind of have to You know what I mean? I'm like before I'd even talk about that, I'd have every piece of information financially about each other. I almost feel like he's he's waiting to disclose all that when it comes time to put together the pre-nup because I I'm really open about just everything. My finances and and just that just any I'm I'm very open.

I like to talk about >> well, you're going to get married to the guy. So I'm curious why he's not so open about it. I Here's the thing. I I I'm going to be honest.

really challenged in a good way.

And it it's James Sexton an an attorney out of New York who he's the one who challenged [clears throat] me on it and it was this.

Every married couple has a pre-nup. And

it is whatever the state you live in says this is how we're going to split it up unless y'all sit down and write out while you still like each other what would happen if?

Okay?

We could We could debate that. Um in fact, some of my colleagues disagree with me. I I I'm I'm not I'm unsettled in my opinion on it because I do feel like if you have make a pre-nup, you're already getting into the boat thinking well, I just need to have an escape plan if this thing happens. And um I do think

there's wisdom in talking about, okay, if this many percentage of marriages don't work and you're marrying somebody who already has had one that didn't work, let's be honest about what happens if this doesn't. And we're going to do everything we can. So, that's for a different discussion. To me, my biggest red flag for you is what a prenup would serve you two right now is to make sure your kids are protected.

>> going to say the adult kids is a change for me. >> asset-wise. >> Yeah. And not It's not a way to keep secrets from each other or to keep everything separate forever cuz once y'all get married, we're going to have one checking account.

We're going to put all of our money in the same together and his business may pay him a salary and your business may pay you a salary, but it's going to go into the same account. And if it doesn't, a prenup's not going to solve that.

Right? It's just a plan.

>> [clears throat] >> So, I I think his um I think his

it seems like his biggest concern Well, he almost lost his home during his divorce or going through his divorce.

And he >> had to come up with so much money to keep it. >> That pain is real. The pain is real.

>> Yeah. I I fully understand it and respect that. >> I I do. I know, but he can't hand you that cinder block and say, you carry this for me.

Him getting remarried to you is him saying, whoo, okay, here we go again. I'm going to put both feet back in the same boat.

Mhm. Right? Because otherwise he's going to have a foot hanging out of the boat and the whole the the y'all will never get out of the bay.

Mhm. Yeah, he he had said he would like to leave his property to his daughters. Um

and that's okay. >> fair and good. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, so so yeah, my thing is yeah, and I'm with John.

I'm not black and white on the issue of prenups. Usually if there's a discrepancy in wealth going into a marriage, that's one time that I'm like, I get that. This is another if adult kids with assets. >> Yes, adult kids and in a second marriage and you know what I mean, all of that and it's like, hey, the adult kids is what I want this to go to them because I've worked hard for this and I mean, all of that that's that seems fair to me.

the you you don't know him fully and you're engaged and you're engaged to him. So, that that does worry me and I would want to make sure that the language that you have enough representation if you guys do go into this and do some kind of prenup that you have representation on your end because it does sound like you have no debt.

You have a home. You've done very well financially. He has a home, but he has debt is what you said you think. You don't even I don't even know if you know how much. >> You don't even know. >> Or how much Yeah, so So, I mean, you could be in a better financial you know, situation than he even is.

Um but I would just want to make sure you have representation on your end as well, Anne. Um but it would not be a That's not That's not the black and white issue to me. Um what worries me though is the secrets. >> Yeah, how how this is coming about.

>> bother you, Anne? I'm just curious cuz it would I I I wouldn't be able to get close to somebody if they were like, hey, you can know all of me. Let's get married, but you can't know what's in these accounts.

Yeah, it just So, I'm not like the kind of person I've been almost afraid to ask cuz I don't want it I don't want to seem like I'm being nosy or You're about Listen, hon, you're about to be his wife.

>> [snorts] >> Yeah. >> You're about to be his wife.

I didn't want to offend him by I like part of you know, for a while I've just like I'm like, well, it's none of my business. That's not It is. You're about to become his You're about to become his wife. What What if he owes $20 in in back taxes and debt?

Mhm. Right? You want to know. And Anne, you're and I get and I get your kindness of spirit. I can like feel that from you and it's so wonderful and such a gift.

But you need to have the strength to push into areas of this marriage that you aren't comfortable in order for this marriage to thrive. It's not sweeping things under the rug and you already begun that habit. And that's not a great

setup. >> Burying parts of yourself to keep the peace. >> asking your fiance his money situation is not rude or weird. Like that's Do you know what I mean?

You're not like I don't know. It's like you're not asking to be like, hey, you need to move to a foreign country with me for 18 year or whatever. I don't know. Something big up and big and you're like, oh my gosh, what?

This is just like this is pretty basic stuff, Anne. Like So, Can I get your opinion on something else? >> Real quick. We got like 10 seconds.

Okay. He had said that he doesn't he don't doesn't want to move from the home that he shared with his previous wife even after I suggested we build a home together. I have property we can build on or I can sell my property and pay off his mortgage. >> Okay. And he is just like, those are not options for him. He just You know what?

I'm going to hold you cuz I'll we'll answer that in the next segment. So, stay on the line, Anne, and we'll get right back to you.

>> [music]

[music]

>> How many of you are ready for a fresh start with money this year? Maybe you want to pay off debt or start saving for retirement. And those are great goals, but you're also probably thinking, well, sure, Rachel, but with what money? My budget is so tight as it is. Listen, I hear you, but you can do more with your money this year. And our EveryDollar budget app helps you find margin to make it happen. This is such a game changer.

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>> [music]

>> One of our favorite [music] things is hearing people share their stories on how they're winning with money. And so, we got this one from Claire and Winston.

Great name. Uh this is me and my husband's third month of budgeting with the EveryDollar app and I am amazed at how much money we have found. We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding $3,500

extra in margin each month to put towards our debt. >> $3,000? >> 500 Yes, 3,500.

>> Golly. We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off. We are never going back. It's incredible, you guys.

So, if you want that kind of control, you want to see your income go as far as possible for you, EveryDollar is the most amazing budgeting app. So, you can go download it for free at EveryDollar. Um you can go to the App Store or Google Play and this is where you start to really change your family tree.

All right. Uh we're going to go back to Anne. We were talking to her. She is

getting married. She is engaged. Her husband This is her his second marriage.

They both have adult children. They both own homes, own businesses. The question was about a prenup. She doesn't fully know all of his financial information.

And then right before we were going to break, uh she started talking about their home situation. So, Anne, is that a good summary overall?

Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. And so, your your husband I mean, your your fiance does not want to move out of the house he shared with his ex-wife for more than two decades.

And you have said, I don't feel comfortable living in that house. Let's build something new. You can move into my house. I've got property. And he said, deal breaker. I stay here.

Pretty much. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I But even after I I'm like, you know, I'm I'm of course I'm willing to make sacrifices.

And so, I I just want to get him I don't I want to see him out of debt. I want him to you know, take a break. He's been working so hard all these years to you know, to recover from the divorce. And And so, I I even suggested I could sell my property and to and we could use that money to pay off his mortgage, but he doesn't want to do that either.

And I I'm I'm just kind of not sure where to go from here. It's how to move Yeah, cuz that would mess up the prenup. I mean, that's you putting your assets into the asset that he's then going to give his kids and you're not getting any part of that, right? So, that's where the whole kind of like it starts to be really complicated really Can I Can I tell you what I what I hear?

Okay. I hear a guy that likes you.

I'll even go as far to say he loves you.

And he wants to be with you and he sees like, I want to be with her long-term, but I don't see a guy who wants to get married.

Mhm. I I did ask him a couple weeks ago just really like out of I was blunt. I'm like, are you sure you want to get married? And he said he said, heck yeah.

Okay, [laughter] but I I think he has a picture of what marriage is and you have a picture of what marriage is and you're both using the same word, but your pictures are very different.

So, around here at the office we say, clear is kind.

I think the kindest thing y'all could do for each other is to in is exquisite

details possible, y'all detail out

what your picture of marriage looks like from how we talk about money to sex and intimacy to inheritance to wills to one

checking account. Whatever your picture of marriage is, I want you to have the courage to write it out and share it with him and ask him to do the same thing. Mhm. And hopefully 80 90% of it it all matches. And then you're going to have to compromise, negotiate, walk away from

each other because the other five or 10% is so big, right? Or maybe it's okay, I can do that, you can do this. But y'all are both have different pictures of what this thing looks like. >> Yeah, cuz there is a level of sacrifice and meeting in the middle and it sounds like he's putting up some really hard lines of even [clears throat] where I'm going to live here and you got to deal with it. >> Yeah. That's a lot. You know what I mean?

>> I don't care what your values are. >> Yeah. So making sure those values are aligned are huge and so yeah, when it comes to the housing situation, I mean it's whatever you're comfortable with.

itself, but the funds and the equity that's in your home if you do end up selling it and moving in to his home, that that's yours, right? So it's not fair for you to wash yours clean, he keeps all this and then keeps it if something happens in the marriage. So Yeah, if but if if two people are getting married and they both have houses and they want to sell their house combine that money and go buy a house together and one of them's not pre-nupping it away from the other person, that's awesome. Combine everything, you want to go all in, you can do it.

>> that's usually what you do. Yeah, but he wants to keep this house for his adult kids. So it's like, okay, well then you need to make sure that your house then is in a protection for you. Yeah.

And at least the equity in there, right?

Here's what I really believe and have the courage to share that with him and he might look at that and walk away. And that you're you're worth that risk.

>> Mhm. Well said. That's great. All right, let's go to Samuel in Columbia. Hi Samuel, welcome to the show.

Hey, how you doing? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

Awesome. Yeah, so um

going through some forbearance stuff with my mortgage company, took a pretty big hit last year on my

income decreasing due to a family member's medical problem.

>> Mhm. Uh me and my wife, we have three kids, one on the way.

Um uh the the mortgage company up my mortgage of $1,500 for the next 6 months to square away November, December and January. >> Mhm. Um I got a car that's about 60 days

past due. I have a lease that the payment on it's cheaper, so we're currently trying to keep the leased vehicle um to get out of the higher payment of the other vehicle.

Um and I don't mind explaining details as we go through them. I'm just trying to lay things a little bit of a PowerPoint out for you, but um

that's basically where I was at. We was pulling 8 to 10k a month um for the past two to three years And that was income? March of 2020. Yes, in income 8 to 10 grand a month. Um that was what was rotating through my accounts until the the the situation

that happened with my great aunt. Mhm.

So how much are you making now, Samuel?

So currently my past few checks now and now I'm in the car business, I sell used vehicles.

Um I work for I work with a company that sell used vehicles and I've been I've been racking in somewhere around 35 to 4 grand a month. Okay.

Does your wife work?

I'm sorry. Does your wife work?

No, not currently. >> with the kids.

Correct. Oh, and she's pregnant, she's on the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, gotcha, gotcha. So you're so you're 4 grand a month. Okay, so that's during the slow season. Where do you see yourself March, April, May, June, July? What do you think you could get that up to?

Um well, so obviously we're here on the edge of tax season, things are going to kick in. I'll probably start racking back in 8 to 10k. >> Okay, okay. For you know, the tell you know, for the next four months.

>> that's usually higher because you guys went into forbearance.

So we we're food, shelter, utilities, transportation, that's our that's our key. So keeping the house current is going to be your number one priority, okay? And then these this car, the car with the loan, are you underwater on that?

I am I am almost 60 days past due on it.

It's it's the family vehicle, it's a Suburban. >> Okay, okay. Wait, if you sold it I don't want to I don't want it to be repoed because then you got nothing. So what if you sold it? >> that's that's the problem, I can't sell it. I'm um I I kind of packed in a some

negative equity on top of it. I I have tried to sell it.

Um I have tried to reach out to the bank to you know Okay, how much Totally, how much do you owe on it? How much do you owe on it? Uh 62,000.

>> 52?

62. >> 62. Okay, 62. If you were to sell it,

I'm just wondering, what what could you get for it? 20, 30? Maybe 50. 50? Okay,

okay, all right, we're we're going somewhere. I would get rid of it. The fact that you already can't make this payment, okay, Samuel, you sell it to an individual, get it out because if you keep stop if you're not able to keep making these payments, they're going to just take it and then you're going to have $62,000 and then they're going to sell it for nothing on their end and you're going to owe so much. So I would sell this >> I do that with the bank holding the title?

Well, you could well, you're going to have to take a small personal loan, probably from a credit union. So I would take >> Go get the $12,000 >> yes, and I'd be a one car family for a season. That's going to be so uncomfortable, but getting this taken care of. So so so see if you can go get a $12,000 loan, pay the difference, get rid of the Suburban and stay current on the mortgage.

That is priority.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Here [music] in Nashville, Tennessee, we do the show live every day from 1:00 to 4:00, so you can come in and visit us, which people do from all over the country, whether they're driving through Nashville or they make it a destination

stop. So we have we do the show live

with some glass and we always have a great audience out there that comes and sits and there's free cookies and coffees, teas, all of it. And then >> [music] >> in the lobby we also have the debt-free stage. So whenever there is anyone standing on the stage, we know it is time to celebrate. So welcome you guys.

Thank you. >> Thank you. Absolutely, we have Nick and Renee from Chicago and they are here and

made the big trip down because you are

debt-free. Yes, we are.

Amazing, [laughter] you guys. Okay, so how much debt did you pay off? So we paid a total of $160,811

or $160,811.63.

Oh my gosh, how long did that take you?

6 years. 6 years. Amazing. Okay, and

what kind of debt was it?

Student loans, credit card, but mostly student loans. Okay, so consumer debt.

[clears throat] >> Car, credit card, student everything.

>> Everything. >> Just the life. Just the life. Oh my gosh. Okay, so 6 years ago, what started

changing for you guys? What made you start chucking down at $160,000 in debt? Well, we were on our way to our honeymoon and the drive down to Hilton Head was we were listening to Ramsey.

>> [laughter] >> So that was that was our What a what a way to start the honeymoon, guys. I know. So I started >> going we were at Waterfront Church at the time and I they were offering Financial Peace and so we did that along with our premarital counseling and so I drank the Kool-Aid 100%. We got married.

We drove to Hilton Head and so I was like, yeah, let's listen, let's do this.

And he never said let's take a break from this. So we just kept listening to one after the other and and so that's just what we did. But we've done Financial Peace every single year just to make sure we were staying motivated. >> you went through it a lot. >> So we've gone through it a lot, but it helped us stay motivated. One I mean, all the way because the majority of this was my student loans and

that was really hard. So like going through the Financial Peace every year, it just helped us stay on point. It helped us stay focused. Um What was your degree in?

I did a bachelor in psychology and then I have a master of education and science. Yeah, >> So how much how much were you guys making during that time? I'm going to ask you that earlier, but with that degree and everything. Yeah, so we started at $106,829

and then we ended with well, currently we're at about $131,000.

Okay, okay, amazing, amazing.

Oh my gosh, you guys. >> Okay, can can I can I jump in here? I have a question for you.

I've never asked this I don't think of a couple ever.

All right, bring it on. I >> [laughter] >> I I would love for you to talk to the couples out there where one of the people in that couple

feels [snorts] like the majority of the debt that we're trying to both pay off, I brought into this thing. Yeah. And

there's some guilt there, there's some shame there. Like talk about how that felt knowing 4 years in this guy married

me and we're still not eating out cuz we're still trying to pay this stupid thing off, right? >> Right. Yeah. I'm I'm Yes, you nailed it on on in one. So, it has been super challenging and Emotionally challenging. All challenging. Yes. And so, when we before we got married, we had talked about what does your debt look like? You know, and he's telling me he's like, "Oh, I've got a lot." Oh, yeah. Oh, no.

>> [laughter] >> And I was like, "Oh, gosh." Cuz I'm just thinking of mine. Totally. Yes. And he's like, "About $12,000." >> [laughter] >> Oh. And then I thought, "Well, this is the end of this." You know, so Um then I told him mine and and he was just like, "Okay, let's do this." >> What was it? 120, 130? 130, 133?

>> 133. Yeah, okay. Okay. And so, he was just like, "Okay. All right, let's do this." And so, he every time I I would get super upset or have a challenge or just like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm the reason we're still in this. I'm And he's just like, "Nope, this is ours. We're doing this together. We're in it." >> man, brother. He He is. I've got a really good guy. So, he's been in it with me from from day one and it's

>> So, what So, what do you tell that person listening who doesn't want to come clean about what they owe, is afraid of saddling their their spouse with this with this journey? I I would say I you have to be honest and open about it because that's what made So, we've been married 6 years and that's what's made this marriage so strong. I mean, we had a lot of other elements. We you know, we We had a lot of other things moving forward in this.

Like we were doing IVF through this. We were paying cash for that.

it it was just hard, but knowing that he was there with me, he was supporting me, that we were supporting each other.

We learned how to say no to each other, which was amazing. Yeah.

You know, it the the best way I can put it is trust, open-mindedness, and to

love as unconditionally as you can. Mhm.

It's beautiful. >> It's a hard It's a hard thing to It's a hard thing to do. >> day. Yeah. It's making a choice.

>> But it's a hard thing to do and it's a hard thing to receive. Yes. It's both, right? Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Okay, so for you guys on this journey, who [clears throat] out of the two of you, who's more of the spender, who's more of the saver, who's more of the free spirit? Like would you say you had like different personalities through it or were you all pretty honed in together? It sounds like you were pretty similar from the way you're talking, but I'm curious.

I think I may have become more of the spender now. I don't know.

>> [laughter] >> Nick's like, "I can do this. I can spend some." Yeah. Yeah, he's good at spending. Good. [laughter] I love it. I love it. So, what would you say was the um the hardest part of this journey? I mean, we kind of talked about some of just like the long you know, the marathon and all life that was in there.

But was there a part that was like, "Whoa, that is tough." So, after all this the smaller debt and then it became the student loan debt and then it was that time when we were going through the IVF. That was That was a challenge. >> Mhm. But we had to break it down into

like little victories. Um making this amount this month or this amount every quarter, you know, whatever it is. It's great. >> And just and you know, celebrate those little ones. I love it. [clears throat] Yeah. Okay, so what would you say the key of getting out of debt is if someone were to ask?

Be diligent and just just do it all in.

All or nothing. The The budget has to I mean, as everyone often says, the budget is essential.

Um learning how to say no and we're both people pleasers, so that was really challenging, I think especially in the beginning. Um so, yeah, that's what I would say to that also. It's amazing, you guys. Oh.

So, how does it feel?

Fantastic. >> [laughter] >> It's a huge It's It's a huge burden off.

Yes. And it's just so funny cuz we have old cars. So, like Christmas came and both between the two cars we still had over $3,500 of car repair we just did. So, it's like It's not over, you know. [laughter] It doesn't just end, so know that. Yes, that's right. Life is still So, life is still moving. Yeah, but we made it down to Nashville in 8 hours. Yes, there you go. >> [laughter] >> And if you get out of here in time, you'll miss the snowpocalypse that's on the >> leaving. Yes, we will.

Oh. [laughter] Well, you guys are amazing. Absolutely incredible. What an incredible journey you've been on and we so appreciate you sharing your story and just inspiring people, right? I mean, cuz you hear 160,000 and it is it's a big number, but yet people do it. People are on their journey. So, some people maybe starting, some people maybe the very end and they're hearing this and it's the motivation they need. So, we are so excited, so happy to celebrate you all.

All right. So, we have Nick and Renee

from Chicago, Illinois. They paid off $160,000 in debt in 6 years making 106 to 131,000

a debt-free scream. All right. 3 2 1

WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

>> [screaming] [applause and music] >> LOVE IT. LOVE IT. THE INTENSITY. YOU can feel it.

[applause] It's still It's still one of my favorite parts of this job. Just the relief. Man, that is Very few people can do something for 6 years. Whoo. It's a lot. [music] Long time. It's a long time. >> It's a long time. They just kept showing up. It's awesome. >> chipping away each little bit at a time.

Oh my gosh, Nick and Renee, absolutely [music] incredible. Absolutely incredible.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

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Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramseysolutions.com/smartvestor.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah [music] 26:3.

I will keep in perfect peace those whose minds are steadfast because [music] they trust in you.

Maya Angelou said, "You may not control all the events that have happened to you, but you can decide

not to be reduced [music] by them." It's good. Very empowering.

All right, let's go to Susie in Charlotte.

Hi Susie, welcome to the show.

Hi Rachel and John. I'm so excited to speak with you both. I appreciate you taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help today?

I'll ask my question and then I can give you a little more context if you'd like.

>> Okay. Um my question is, when we're ready to retire, is it a good move for

my husband and I to move money out of the stock stock market into more conservative funds within our IRA

um for withdrawing that money?

So, >> here's a Go ahead. Well, I was going to say, um you know, depending on who you talk to in the financial planning world, some people go super conservative and they you know, they suggest annuities, um

CDs, like putting your money in. But what we I mean, but honestly, what we who we talk to from the financial planning perspective and who we more tend to lean towards is leaving it in because for retirement, let's say you retire at 65, you know, you may still have 20 years of your life left and you

would miss out on so much growth because a lot of the retirement, you may not even touch the actual nest egg. You'll just be actually living off of what it's making every year and you're going to make nothing in a CD or annuity, like all of that. Even though it feels safe over such a long period of time of retirement, you're still going to make so much keeping it in.

Yeah, our financial advisor had said that his rule of thumb or his thought

process was that you could spend about 4% of your retirement savings each year

and he said that bond markets money markets and bonds were paying about that and that as we got closer to retirement, we could move some of our investments into that. Yeah, right. >> Inside our IRA, not in not annuities or

anything, but leave it in the IRA, just a different >> a lot of and a lot of financial planners do that cuz they're it's such a conservative rate. Like in fact, I think Dave even says you could take out up to 6 to 8, you know, percent. Like, so So, he So, I would say like if Dave Ramsey was sitting here, he would be way more on the liberal side of this, meaning like leave it in. And you can actually probably take out more than 4%, but a financial planner is going to be more on the conservative end.

because Yeah, cuz I mean at some point you may not even keep up with inflation, you know, depending on what these money market accounts do. They're pretty good right now, um but over time we haven't always seen that rate of return. And so, keeping them in the markets, you're going to be making so much money. I mean, on average you're making, you know, 10 to 11%. Some years, I mean, last year was like 20-something percent. It was crazy. So,

you would miss out on so much growth pulling your money out.

Okay, that's great. Thank you.

>> absolutely. Thanks for the call.

All right, let's go to Is it Angela in

Dallas? Hi, Angela. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Hello. Hello. I have a quick question. I feel like we're like best friends, so I'm so excited to talk to y'all. >> Oh my gosh. No, you're our BFF. We're so excited to talk to you.

Okay, I have a question. I just wanted some clarity about sinking funds. So, I was listening to the podcast the other day with Jade and Kim, and she had mentioned that sinking funds are intended for expenses that you cannot cover on a monthly basis, or at least that's what I understood her to say, and it kind of like changed my whole life. So, I I I feel like I'm kind

of a free spirit when it comes to spending, but I'm also like a budgeter like no one's business. So, I have a sinking fund for clothes, haircuts, oil changes, like tire changes, and Christmas. But, um I do find that we're kind of

dipping into the sinking funds on a monthly basis cuz we kind of need more funds, and so I'm thinking I might be creating sinking funds for things that might shouldn't be and should just be calculating for that in my regular checking account. >> Mhm. And then, um it should be like saving for things like Christmas or tire changes. Does that make sense? Yes, it does.

>> elaborate on that a little bit for me?

Yeah, no, it's a great question. So, yeah, usually sinking funds are for a specific The way I've looked at it, and I think people can use them different ways. So, George Campbell probably has like 20 sinking funds, let's be honest.

So, I'm sure everyone probably tends [laughter] to do it differently. I don't think there's necessarily like a right or wrong. But, for me, the most effective way that I think in order to keep a monthly budget and have sinking funds is that sinking funds have an end date. It's almost more like Or for me, it's like a goal where I'm like, "Okay, I know Christmas is coming. I need to put X amount away for Christmas or um

a sinking fund for a trip coming up.

Hey, we we're going to go to Disney next summer." Whatever thing is, let's save up a little bit at a time. Now, what some people will do is they will roll over their amount in their budget for ongoing expenses, just like clothes, okay? So, like I don't know, you get 100 bucks for clothes a month, and you're like, "Okay, I didn't spend that, so I want 200 for next month cuz I didn't spend it, so I want to roll it over." So, a great way to track that is using sinking funds within the EveryDollar app, and people will do that.

But, that's more of a discussion of does the budget end with the When the When the month is done, what I would say is if you're in baby steps 1 through 3, and the month is done and you have money you have not spent, I would use that cash towards debt or towards saving up for an emergency fund.

with you rolling that over, you know, and using it for the next month if you want, like out to eat, you know, at your restaurants or your um your clothes. Does that make sense? Okay. Yeah, no, that that makes a lot of sense. >> like you're using the words sinking fund for like four or five different things.

That's it. Sounds like it sounds like semantics.

Yeah, I kind of feel like if I was to like create a word picture for it, I feel like a squirrel a little bit. Like, I'm like tucking a little here and a little here, and then I'm like pulling from this, and it's like I feel like we might not be getting the momentum that we should be getting. So, when she said that, I was like, "I should put it in my checking account and like you know, go, "Okay, I know that when the season changes in April, I'm going to need clothes." You know, like so, that's that.

And then, I know we're going to get haircuts at this You know what I mean? And so, >> But, those are budget line items.

Yes. And what I would challenge you is like if you if you know like when the season changes, I'm going to {quote} need clothes, I would challenge you to be specific for a season.

I'm going to need two pair of long pants and a new jacket. Not I'm going to need $600 to just go to the store and see Right? And so, if you {quote} need clothes, then be specific about what you need, and then reverse engineer that like that's a sinking fund. I need 600 bucks, so I need 50 bucks a month for the next however many months to get that number. Cuz I know what I'm going to go buy.

And that that specificity will force you

to say, "Okay, this is a budget item, or this needs to go to debt, or this is a sinking fund. I want to buy a car, and it's 30,000 bucks. I don't have 30,000 extra dollars this month or any month.

So, I have to put this much money away every month. That's a sinking fund." But, like I need haircuts, um I'm going to need glasses.

Like, those aren't sinking funds. Those are just budget line items.

Okay. Does that help? Okay, perfect. Yes, yeah, it does.

Thank you, all. [clears throat] >> Yeah, you're so welcome. Yeah, and and again, it's it is, you know, as you need, right? I mean, yeah, whatever you whatever you want to do.

Um cuz in the EveryDollar app, we have the funds function in order for sinking funds. But, also, if you have the EveryDollar app, um oh, if you're using desktop, over to the left-hand side, there is actually a goals area, like you can click goals, and that's what I like. I actually like to use that function better than sinking funds because there's for me the end date is big, where I'm like, "Okay, I know this is happening now." Then, I can do your what you say, reverse engineer what I need to put away each month for that specific category.

I like to think in my head like, "You know what? Um Battle of the Bands is next year. I'm going to need a new guitar.

So, I should probably just put a whole bunch of Right? And then, I'm going to go walk around, and I'm going to buy a bunch There's something about saying, "Okay, one, nobody needs a new guitar, but I want to buy this one. It's going to cost this much dollars." And so, if I'm going to do this budget with integrity, which I don't always do, but like if I'm going to do this right, I'm going to get that dollar amount and go to the store and get that guitar, and I'm going to walk out the door. Totally.

Yeah, that it that it is so specific, right? And >> Otherwise, it becomes kind of the shopping process becomes a hobby, and that's how I get myself back into old John trouble. Old John trouble.

Continues on. But, I like it, and I don't like the whole, "I need two pairs of pants and pair of shorts." Just go shop. Go enjoy.

Just live live in the moment, Angela.

Live in the moment. >> Must be nice. Oh my gosh, y'all.

Must be nice. All right. Well, thanks to uh everyone in the booth. Great [music] show, John. Always fun. And thank you, America, for listening. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial [music] peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 112. Money Issues Aren't the Problem, They’re the Symptom | August 18, 2025


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] This is the Ramsay Show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their life, specifically their money, their work, and their relationships. And we are so glad that you have joined us today alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman and the phone number for you to jump in today is882552258255225

[Music] get you in the conversation. You ready to go partner? >> Let's get it. >> Beth is up in Texas. Beth, how can we help you today?

>> Hi Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Um I'm having a little conflict with my husband and I wanted your input on the situation. >> Sure. Um, for a little background, uh, when we first started the baby steps, we were both working full-time and we decided to take a small allowance and put the rest on the joint account and pay the bills and, you know, do the snowball. Um, I physically paid the bills because he'd been kind of inconsistent before. So, over the time, it just kind of became my job. Um, about

two and a half years ago, I became totally disabled and now all I get is a social security uh, disability check.

But his income grew and he never told me. And I just found out that he's been keeping $2,600 a month of income that I didn't know he was making. >> Now, 400 of that does go to a second retirement account. He's already retired once and gets a retirement check. And when I brought it up and tried to discuss all this, he refused to deposit or put any of the extra money toward the bills and just absolutely refused to discuss it. >> How did you find out? Mhm.

>> Well, I did what you said and when I had, you

know, became disabled, I called my creditors and started working with them and I was working with the IRS to forgive a tax debt and so I needed a

copy of his latest payub and I can read

a payub and first one I'd seen in like 12 years and discovered what he had been doing and he admitted it and when I asked him why he was doing it and didn't tell me he had been making more money and more side jobs. He said, "Because if I told you, you'd take all my money." >> Interesting. So, what was he spending it on? What I mean, you said the 400 to retirement, but is there anything to show for this money, or was it just the drive-through?

>> He has Yeah, he has about $200 in personal bills that he pays, bills that he said, you know, I'm going to take this on, but I'm going to pay for it out of my money.

>> Uh, almost 23 years.

>> And you've had separate accounts the entire time? Well, no, we have the joint account. We just we this is a a second marriage for both of us. So, we we had our own personal accounts when we came into the relationship. So, we just used our personal accounts for our allowance and then all the rest of the money was put into the joint. But at the time, I

had a different, you know, knowledge of what his income was. And as it grew, he >> But you weren't But you weren't seeing the money in the joint account.

I Yeah, he was having I thought the whole thing was being auto deposited, but what he was doing was he was splitting some to go into his personal account, some to go into a savings account, and the rest to go into the >> My my partner here is about ready to pop here. What's What are you thinking? >> Well, I I wanted to make sure I understood both sides of the story, but you kind of laid it out for me in that, you know, you said you each have individual accounts, but then you have this joint account, right?

Did I hear that right? >> Right. Yeah. Yeah, the joint account is where we put all supposedly all the money.

>> But there's there's there's a crack there.

you've you've eliminated transparency when you said my check goes into my account first and then I am being trusted to then put the full amount into this joint account or to put the amount that I say into this joint account because my question for you then would be does he have the login and passwords to your personal account and do you have the login and account to his personal

account >> and did you before all this happened.

>> No. >> Okay. So, that's where I say um the

point of combining the point of combining finances is not just to say and we have this joint account that we put some money in. The point of it is complete transparency and trust. That's that's at the core of why we do that, >> right? >> And so that's that's where there was a hiccup in this plan. And what I think

what I think without you intending it and maybe without him intending it uh are two things. Number one, when you say

when you when you both agree to eliminate that transparency, then it also invites the ability to hide things because >> Yeah. And I mean, if you can't trust your husband, who can you trust? >> But you have said you have said that you don't trust each other because you opened this by saying this is our second marriage and which means there's a caveat there. Because it's our second marriage, we don't trust each other as much.

Because it's our second marriage, we've decided to do things a little different. because it's our second marriage, we have our own accounts.

>> Yeah, I see what you're saying. You know what I mean? I was just mentioning Yeah, I was just mentioning it was our it was our second marriage as an explanation as to why we had our own account.

>> Exactly. And and I'm agreeing with you, but what I really wanted to ask you what I really wanted to ask you, Beth, was the thing that you said uh when you asked him about it and he said, "Well, I'm afraid uh she'll take all of it." >> Yeah. Is that is there any truth to that? Good or bad? >> You'll take Well, okay. So Dave said

gazelle and I am like, you know, uber gazelle and maybe I was guilty of being a little bit too frisky on the go down

really fast. >> Okay, >> you know, I might plead guilty to that.

Okay. >> But um >> so and I'm not saying don't get me wrong, it's no excuse for him to have >> been dishonest with you, but I think there's a little What I'm saying is I think there's room for both of you guys to budge on this. Um what I was listening for Beth is a bad guy.

>> You know, I I'm listening to see is this a bad guy? Is this guy a guy who's really disrespecting her? Is this a guy who um you know that we need to put in his place? But I don't Ken, what do you think? I don't think so. Well, he's not

>> I don't think he may be a bad guy, but he's a bad husband right now.

>> He >> So, what's your So, here's my question, Beth. What is your question for us?

Because this is pretty awful stuff.

>> This has got to be shaking you. So, how can we help today? Because this is a massive marriage problem that involves very intentional therapy. Yes, >> 100%. >> Well, well, when I became disabled, you know, it was my job to to pay the bills, run the household. I take care of everything. When I became disabled two and a half years ago, that did not stop.

And so trying to manage the same bills and reconcile the ones that we couldn't pay and dealing with creditors, that fell on me. And I've been very very sick for two and a half years. And so um I

just in in anger when I discovered this,

I told him I said, you know, I tried to discuss it and I said, you know, I'm not going to take all your money, but we agreed on an allowance. And since I went on social security disability, I felt guilty taking allowance. So I put my entire check. >> And so here here Beth, here is where I want to jump in because this is where the issue is. Again, I want to be very clear. What he did was wrong. He should not have uh treated the money that way.

He should not have been duplicitous in that way. However, uh there is a an

unhealthiness in how the money is being handled also on your end. And I can tell you adults don't like being treated like

children. And so for him, he I could

understand being feel feeling like, hey, I go to work all day. I give my money over to my spouse and they give me an allowance and I've been busting my butt all day. People don't like that. So what we would suggest and what I would suggest here is you guys really do have to be on one accord with this, which is we both work.

We decide together how our money is being spent. We're going to decide what goes on to bills. We are going to have everything in one joint account. Not accounts off to the side, but we get paid into the same account so we can all see it.

And then we decide uh how much Beth are you going to spend on fun? How much is he going to spend on fun? And we see it together. And if you Beth choose not to spend your fund money, that's your choice.

He's still a man and wants to feel like he can. >> Yeah. I I see your side, but I also think that this is a marriage problem and we got to find out pretty quick if he's willing to fix this marriage problem. Both of you come to the table, own both of your stuff and see if we can have a clear path forward.

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[Music]

>> All right, let's go to Ryan who's joining us now in Mississippi. Ryan, how can we help today?

>> Hi, Ken. Hi, Jade. How are y'all doing?

Great.

>> Good. Um, I just I feel like I got a complicated question, but I'll try to keep it simple. So, I'm a traveling preacher. Um, I hold revival throughout

the country, and I also hold down a full-time job. I do probably on average

probably one revival um, a month on average. So, that

requires a lot of travel. I'm putting roughly 50,000 miles a year at least on my vehicles and I'm caught in a cycle of

going upside down on cars. I'd really like to get rid of having the car payment all together because it's holding me back from other financial goals. Um but I can't seem like I my

last vehicle I got it paid for. As soon as I got it paid for, my plan was to drive it until I saved it for another.

But it broke down. Had to replace the motor. Long story short, I wound up going in debt on another car because I had to have a reliable vehicle. So, I just wondering what do y'all suggest I do to um to just kind of break this

cycle. >> Okay. So, you do one of these uh revival

meetings a month is your average. So, that's 12 >> on average. There's some there's some months that I may not have anything and then I may have two or three things crammed in one month, but on average, you know, it's >> all right. So, that tells me Okay. Okay.

So, that tells me just I'm going somewhere with this. So, that tells me we can work off of 12 travel events a

year. Correct.

>> Close to that probably. >> All right. >> Plus the full-time. Didn't you say you hold down a job, too? >> Yeah. Yeah. But we're talking about these >> I do. So, when I'm when I'm home and I'm not traveling, I I work a job that brings in roughly 50,000 a year.

>> Okay. You're making 50,000 a year there.

What how are you getting paid? Are you getting paid through offerings? And then how much? Give me a number. And again, we're working off a 12 because the solution I'm going to propose here, uh,

it doesn't matter if it's 12 of these or 15, but you're somewhere in the 12 to 15 range. We've established that. Okay. So, how are you getting paid for these revival meetings?

>> Um, it varies, but you know, based on church size and what they're able to do.

I don't require anything, but they generally take care of me, you know, my travel expenses, and I usually have some left over. Um, but I'm also while I'm gone doing that, I'm not getting paid from my regular job. >> Give us the average. How much are you making per weekend roughly?

>> Probably 800 to a,000 for a week. Uh,

>> and that's not just the extra.

>> That's not just the extra, right? That's them taking care of you with food and whatever else you might need.

>> That's usually the offering. Most of the time they will cover your food and lodging. >> Okay. I have a very simple solution. I I've been trying to kind of play this out. I'm just going to go ahead and jump ahead because we're getting distracted here. You just need to be flying to these places. I I if if you're making somewhere between $800 to $1,000 on this

thing and they're paying your expenses instead of you driving all over creation, which if you have a Monday through Friday job and you've got to drive from wherever you are in Mississippi to Ohio and you have to take off time for work, that's just not being very smart. And you're going to these things. These are weekend deals.

Correct. Uh most of them are going to run all week long. They're going to run like a Sunday through Friday. >> Well, this is just not >> Some of them will be three days. >> Okay. So, my So, here's Okay. So, if it's all week and I'm missing time, so I'm eating into my vacation time and I've got my $50,000 a year job and and

let's just say 12* 800 is 9600, right?

Is that right? Is that my math? Sure.

you know, for all of this wear and tear on the car, and I know this is a ministry thing for you, and I'm not in any way trying to talk you out of it, but the way you're going about this doesn't make a lot of sense to put all this mileage on the car.

>> Most of the time, I also take my wife and and kids. Does that play into that?

>> It might. It might need to play into it.

>> I wouldn't. This has got to be more efficient. This is basically you are bivocational. Would you would you agree with that?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, if it's a if I'm bivocational, I can't have one side of the equation pulling me down financially. Now, we I could have gone another path and I because I know my partner's going to go this direction.

You didn't have to go into debt for a car. This whole idea that I have to go into debt and all this kind of thing, you don't have to do that. What you've got to do a better job is is that if I'm going to go get paid to preach, then that needs to be a better economic model. Now, I'm going to tell you something.

I know your model cuz I grew up in a small Baptist church. My dad's a pastor, retired now, and we had guys like you come in.

>> you have to start to ask yourself, is that the best play or is it better for me to then fill pulpits on the weekend,

which is also a play where you're an interim pastor and you can hold down a job plus preach and make money. And so

I'm challenging you that the way you started the call and I want Jade to come in and take over here on the money piece, but what I heard was a guy who felt like I'm in prison to my ministry.

And I think that's faulty thinking. And there is a way for you to fill that vocational ministry desire and not have

it penalize you financially. So yeah, I wouldn't take my wife and kids. That's that's more expenses. Uh I wouldn't drive everywhere. I'd have people fly me in. They're planning far enough in advance that they can get you a pretty reasonable ticket and it should be less than $800. You're not going to California and doing revivals. I know that. So, I just I want to challenge you

to rework your model and do it in a way

that is actually financially advantageous, not something that pulls you down. >> Um >> Okay. >> Yeah, I I I agree with Ken 100% on this.

Um, I think you do need to get more efficient because part of part of how

can I say this in a way that doesn't sound judgmental cuz I'm not judging you at all. But part of that integrity that you're preaching from and teaching from, there is a financial component to that and we want that to feel consistent across our life. Uh, I think you will feel better having dealt with this and making sure first let me make sure my house is in order. make sure that I'm not leaving my family in debt, putting us in a financially precarious situation.

Does that make sense? And that way there's that that that firm footing across the board.

>> So get out of debt, >> right? >> So let's write the ship. Let's let's get back in line with wait a second. Maybe

the next couple calls I take I say, "Hey, here's the deal. I can't do a full week. I can do a weekend.

>> Um, and here's what I'm going to require. >> And >> can I follow Can I use a follow-up question? >> Sure. >> So, okay. So, the the debt that I'm in now, I want to ask a question about the best way to go about getting out of that. So, the vehicle has 52,000 mi and

it uh I owe 33 on it. I bought it. When

I when I got it, I was not upside down on it when I went into it. But now, >> because of the miles I put on it, I'm already 7,000 upside down.

>> Okay. So 7,000 upside down.

>> Should I should I should I sell it and try to get out of debt or should I try to pay it off early and continue driving it? >> Well, let's figure that whether we can pay it off early because if we think you can get this thing paid off in a year and a half, two years, then I'd probably keep it. But it depends on what other debt you have. Do you have any other debt? >> Just my house. >> Oh, just the house. Okay. And that's it.

No credit cards, no student loans?

>> No. >> Okay. Then I if I were you uh making 50,000, does your wife make anything?

>> No, she's stay at home mom.

>> How many kids?

>> Three. >> How old are they?

>> I have twins that are about to be 12 and I have a 9-year-old daughter.

>> Okay. She needs to be bringing in an income, especially with you doing this.

>> Even if it's just for a short season until you guys get this 33,000 paid off because for now, if you are going to do more driving, I agree with Ken that you should try to fly to more to more of these. But in the interim, if you are doing more driving, it could be a good idea to keep this car and just pay it off quickly. And if your wife can pick up a,000 or 2,000 bucks a month, you guys can do that very quickly. And I would suggest that.

Mhm. I really I'm I'm going to tell you this and again my my dad does this. He's retired but he is a interim pastor and so he fills churches where they're looking to replace somebody uh that's left. They're looking for senior pastor.

I think right now at this season I'd press pause on the current revival rhythm. I don't think it makes sense for you and I don't think you're being a good steward.

you're making uh five days a week 800

bucks. That's not great, man. So, I I think >> I make that I make that aside from so even being gone.

>> Uh, you know, >> I get it. I'm not changing my opinion.

I'm not changing my opinion. I think you need to rework what you're doing because it's not working for you.

>> And then you figure out how can I make money doing ministry, but I'm filling interim roles while being at home. I pay my car off. Mama needs a part-time job at least helping out right now. And then you dig out. You know, listen, you know the scripture on this. So, o you got to eat, you know what you're cooking.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right. Did you know that twothirds of Americans will die without a will?

That seems crazy to me. I if you asked me that um point blank, I would have never guessed that. That that surprises me. But then nothing surprises me anymore.

But here's what happens. When you die without a will, you're inviting the court, lawyers, and the public into the most personal part of your life. Uh Howard Hughes, probably the most eccentric billionaire uh of modern times, died in April of 1976 without a will. Over 600 people came forward claiming interest in his fortune.

legal cousins. >> Oh my gosh, >> that's funny uh and sad at the same time. So, we want to challenge you to create your will in the month of August.

Takes less than five minutes. You can find out if an online will works for you at ramseysolutions.com/willsquiz.

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uh August is will month. Wilmont.

>> Remember Fred Flintstone when he call Wilmont? >> Will I miss Fred Flintstone? I will tell you this. U you know, we work with a lot of young people, >> you know.

>> Yeah. >> And uh James, this true story. I made a Fred Flintstone reference in a meeting recently with several 20somes and they looked at me like I had horns growing out my head >> and I'm like, if you don't know who Barney Rubble is, you haven't lived. Cuz Barney was the best friend in the history of television.

>> It's probably on YouTube. If you don't know the Flintstones, go check it out.

>> Anthony is joining us now in Kentucky.

Anthony, how can we help?

>> Hi. Uh, I appreciate you guys taking my call. Um, I u recently lost everything.

Um, my ex committed domestic violence in

another state and um I had to flee with

my our one-year-old son. Um, so I'm a

single father. Um, >> so sorry, man. >> It's been about it's been about um 3 weeks since I've been back home and I thought I would have help from my family. And um I have

one aunt that watches him while I work and that's it. My uh mom uh came around

one morning. I was at her house uh talking about how I owe her three grand from when my son was born. She made me buy uh the car seat that she bought him for his birthday. Um then um uh my cousin's been um just lying about

me saying that I gave up custody of my son to her and um everything. So I've basically been on my own since I've been back down here. Um I um I just uh I got help from my

church. Um they uh put us in a hotel

room. They um took me around to uh get

me a job. I I'm a server now at a local

restaurant. >> Good. >> Um and uh I uh recently I maxed out um

student loans. I'm going I start school on Monday. Um and uh I I just I don't know what to do.

Like I'll >> Well, here's what I want you to do.

Here's what I want you to do. Okay? I literally want you right now to take a deep breath. You don't have to do it in the phone, but I want you to take a deep breath. >> Okay?

>> Okay. >> All right. Now, let's let's just start walking through this. So, why are you

starting school? What do what are we doing? Why are we going to school?

Honestly, it's uh the only way that I

could see that I could get a large lump

sum of money to get a car and a place as

soon as possible. >> Okay, so hold on. >> I I have an interest in going to school.

Like I I I'm going for something that I I'm going for psychology. I I have a a

huge interest in it. I want to do this for my life. You pulled out more than what you would need to make sure you have >> You took out payment.

>> Yeah, I I took it's student loans. It's financial aid.

>> Okay. >> How much?

>> Um I took out 9500

for the whole school year. I got 7,300

for my PEL grant where I'm a single father. Um so I'll have about 16 split

into two semesters. And um like after

tuition and books and all that, it'll come out to around 6,000 a semester for

this semester and next semester.

>> How are you going to go to school and work enough to be able to take care of your son and find a place to live? Have you thought through this?

>> Yeah. Um I I'm doing online school. Um

there are only prerequisites right now.

So um I uh I work in the evenings. I

work 4 to 10 and my aunt is watching him basically exclusively um while I'm at work. >> Okay. >> And then um >> uh just I want to see what I can do like

grind out as much as I can school work, get ahead as much as I can and just save as much money as I can.

>> Okay. Well, you've already pulled out the loan, but but for for the future, can we just quickly cover the fact that that's not the way to get ahead financially? Because had you called us a

week ago before you did this, I would have said, "Let's press pause on the psychology degree and let's get our life

stable." And I'm loving that you got into a local church and the church is helping you, but taking out a loan for living expenses um is not the answer.

And so I would not do this much further.

I I want Jade to kind of jump in here and we'll walk you out of this deal, but is there just quickly? Is there a specific question you had for us today?

because I understand your your your situation and it's tough but before she covers that and going forward is there anything else that you were specifically asking >> just what what are my next steps like now that I have taken out the loan now that like just what can I do from here to give my son the best possible outcome from this? >> Perfect. All right. >> So I I really want Ken to hit the work part because right now you said you're working from 4 to 10.

How much are you bringing home? What's your income right now?

>> I right now I average about 200 good days. I make a little over $300 a day.

>> Okay. And what's that break down to a month? Right. Quick.

>> Um so I just started Wednesday. I don't have that like off the top of my head, but um I'm I'm making >> So like around 4,000 around >> around Yeah. >> Okay. So the first things first is you're in the hotel right now.

So, first things first is we need to say, "Okay, what do we need with our 4,000 bucks a month? Where's an apartment near me? I want you to do some apartment homework and find out what's near you that you can get 4,000 bucks a month." >> Okay? So, uh where you are, I'm not sure, but see what you can find.

Even if it means um you know, finding somebody at that church that's maybe renting out, you know, rental space, room over the garage, get really, really creative and don't just take the first option that comes to you. So, that's thing one, finding a place to live. Um, and then you've got the support of your aunt. And I want to I want you to really talk with her and and make sure she understands what she's she's signed up for, which is, hey, life's going to be tough for me for a while.

I need to know I can count on you. And really make sure you're building into that relationship because she's your lifeline right now.

communication with her, making sure she understands what she's in for. Um, and then after that, I'm inclined right now

because I think you did the school thing out of fear and out of like trying to find a way out. >> I don't think you have a clear path there yet. If I were you, I'd turn around and give that money right back.

>> Yeah, I was going to ask if you could do that. I didn't know. >> Pay it right off. Take the money, turn around, pay it right off, and be done because you haven't given it to anybody yet.

And that's not the way that you want to buy a car. It's going to cause you so much headache cuz you're making an income. You just need to give it a chance to play out. That's right.

>> So, give that money back and then Ken is going to set you up with when you're able to decide if you even need to go to school. >> Uh, Kelly, let's give him uh Anthony, we're going to give you my book, the uh Get Clear Career Assessment, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. Take 18 to 20 minutes on this and let's let's let's get some results and start ideulating on what a path looks like in the near future, not right away. But here's the deal.

The reason I told you take a deep breath is you've been through a lot, but I can tell you you've landed well. And the ant is a saint. And now it's doing exactly what Jade said. And let's work as much as we can.

I mean, as much as we can. I love giving the money back. Pause all education.

because you need to heal. And getting healthy and stable will allow you to get clear and confident on your future. Hang on. We're going to take care of you.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, let's go to Christy who's joining us now in Texas. Christy, how can we help?

>> Hi. >> Hi. >> This is Christie. >> Yes, I know. Hi. How are you?

>> Thank you. I'm I'm not doing too well, but thank you for taking my phone call.

>> Okay, we're here for you. What's going on? >> My my husband was not able to be on my

our home loan when when we bought our home, so his mother volunteer volunteered herself and cosign. So, her and I are on the on the mortgage.

>> He committed suicide in December.

>> Oh. >> So, that put our that put our family in a huge um my son and I were both there when he did it.

>> Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. I don't even know what to say.

I couldn't I couldn't work for months.

Um my son and I are both in therapy. Um I have PTSD. I have complex grief. I have trauma induced psychosis. Um so it's just but I am working. Like I I couldn't work for the first three three and a half months, but I'm doing great now. Like with therapy, therapy is helping so much, but I am working. I am um so with her being on our on our

mortgage. Um I need her to sign off on anything. Um so my mortgage company has been amazing. So they I let them know the exa exactly what happened and they have they have uh they put us in forbbearance for a little bit.

>> Um and then they were putting us in like a loss mitigation where they've decided themselves that they were just going to forgive >> what was owed. I mean the few months that I had owed they were just going to forgive it >> and it was um I just had to sign it. My mother-in-law had to sign it. So this was back in end of March, beginning of April.

So she had to sign it. Um, and so she uh

I sent her the papers a few times. She kept missing the deadline, so I'd have to get them reprinted by the mortgage. I just got a letter from her lawyer yesterday. She's not going to sign them.

>> Why not?

>> I there's there's no reason. Well, the reason from the lawyer was that um they said they don't think that I can make the payments, which I have. I was I was like my husband had actually been depressed that whole year. I was making all the payments. >> What is the payment? It is $2,100 a

month. >> And how much do you earn?

>> I earn between 5,500 and 6,000. That's

that's I mean that's between >> and then now I now I get social security. >> And how much is that?

>> 24,400. >> Okay. Um

so your your the your the mother is it

mother-in-law or your mother? >> Mother. >> So what happens? So I'm tracking.

So what happens? Let's let's just assume we can't change her mind. What What is the arrangement now with the your mortgage company? They know all this.

It seems like they've been very kind to you and they know what you're up against. Have you told them, "Hey, my mother-in-law is not not playing ball and she's not going to sign, >> right?" And they've given me the option to refinance. Of course, him passing away in December. Those few months that I wasn't making any payments, I wasn't making credit card payments.

And the crazy thing is I have I have caught up on most of the credit cards. I paid off any bills that we were behind.

I paid off my >> You said they gave you the opportunity to refinance. That's what we want.

>> So you can get her off the loan.

>> They won't allow me because I don't have a 620 credit score because my credit went down when I wasn't paying bills.

>> Okay. So what's the other option? Sounds like you talked to them. So what are they saying? >> Yeah. Um foreclosure >> and I'm trying to keep my home. I' I've got children. I'm trying to keep my home. What do you have to do to get out of foreclosure?

>> I have to pay whatever I'm behind. How much right now with with all the fees?

It's like 18,000.

>> You have any cash at all?

>> I do, but nothing near that. I mean, and I >> Well, no, no, we're trying to work through this. So, listen, we're trying to work through this. So, I just need I know you're under it right now, but we're just trying to work through this. So, let's go one question at a time. How much cash do you have? about 4,000.

>> Okay. So, we need 14,000.

>> Ne Well, next question. Before we land on this being the right uh option, was there trauma in that house?

>> Trauma? Yes. >> Yeah. He committed suicide in >> Okay. Which is why I'm going to suggest that we sell this house.

>> Yeah. >> You don't need you don't need to live in this house. And this is a trauma-filled house. And right now, it is a major source of stress.

uh you need to sell the house and and then you're free and clear of the mother-in-law, whatever. If there's proceeds that come out of it, you guys split it, go your separate ways and you need to start over and create a new life

that is not inclusive of this house.

>> I'm just afraid that I can't afford to purchase a house like I bought it with two income that you will because here's the thing.

You just got you just got through explaining to me why you can afford a $2,100 a month mortgage and you can.

You're making $8,000 a month now, including the social security. Now, here's the thing. It's going to take some time, but you're rebuilding a life.

You're not It's not like you just pushed pause and now we're pushing play again on a on a fully built life. You're starting over because you've had this major trauma take place. >> Let's look at the numbers, though. Um, and by the way, I'm glad you jumped to that. I was reacting to what you said. I think Jade's right. The best thing for you to do for multiple reasons, emotional and financial, is sell the house. So, I'm with it. Let's play this out. How much could you sell the house for? Have you looked into this?

>> Uh, when we bought it, um, it appraised for 275. I bought it at for 205.

>> Okay. >> But that's not Okay. So, I don't think you know what it's worth today, do you?

>> I don't. No. >> All right. So, here's the deal. Do you have a Do you have a real estate professional that you've already used before and you know and trust? >> I I do and I've reached out to them. I'm waiting to hear back. >> Okay, great. So, here's the deal. So, step one, they tell you what they think the market bears for that. Okay. So, you owe how much on the home?

>> Um, I couldn't tell you that number. I just know what I'm >> Well, you need to go get that number. >> That's your number one homework is for you to find out what you owe on the house and what it's worth. And then from there, you can find out, okay, if we sell this house for what they say it's worth or somewhere near it. Lowball. I want you to lowball everything so that you're pleasantly surprised.

>> So, so Christy, you don't know the numbers, but let's say that you you said you bought it for 205 how many years ago? >> Um, a year ago. >> Okay. year ago. Okay. So, you're probably going to break even. >> Yeah, you might break even. But here's the thing. You may come away with a little bit of cash. Who knows? I don't know. But you got to get those numbers.

But to So, that helps us there.

>> So, maybe renting is going to be the more I think that's probably the best play for It's fine.

>> Renting is great. Renting is a preparatory phase for you to buy a house. That's what it is. It's time for you to do your research. It's time for you to save up money. And in your case, it's time for you to just have a moment

because when you're renting, do you know what's not your problem, anytime the the

AC breaks, anytime the roof breaks, anything, it's not your problem. And you need a life right now that is very simple with very little problems. And so I think renting is a great option for you right now in the interim. There is a time when you're going to buy a house again and it's going to be a joyfilled time, but right now it's time for healing and it's time for simplification.

That's right. And the numbers that you gave Jade and I, you can easily afford a nice house once you get a down payment. So, it's going to take a little bit of time, but again, you're bringing in plenty of income to afford a decent house in your area. So, be patient.

>> Um, and then you there there's a day coming where you're going to be able to have a nice house. But yeah, the m the mother-in-law thing is toxic.

Jade's 100% right. That's the right play. >> We're We're pulling for you. What you've done is so tough.

>> Thank you guys very much. Thank y'all very much. We're >> We're working through it as best as we can. >> You're doing great. >> I was I was actually considering bankruptcy.

>> I don't cuz you didn't tell us. I mean, is there other debt to speak of? You You told us about the house. What else?

>> Mortgage. >> Oh, this is actually easy. This is >> and a couple of there's like two credit cards that don't have a whole lot cuz I've been paying them down that don't have too much on them, but >> good real estate agents going to help you out of this deal. And make sure you're communicating with the mortgage company.

Go, here's what's going on. We're going to sell the house. It's time to move on. >> They're going to get their money.

They've been great to work with you, but make sure you tie up that end >> and forget the mother-in-law. No more communication on this.

>> There's some bad blood on that deal.

>> That's not just that she's concerned that you can't make the payment. >> Yeah, that's right. that something about that feels really bad. And by the way, I feel horrible for her. I mean, this is her son. So, I'm not casting judgment on her. This is a horrible situation for everybody left behind, >> but um we want to make sure that you hear us, Christy. Like, you can actually get out of this. Sell the house. Take your time and just heal.

>> Yeah. >> Okay.

>> Thank you so much. >> Call us back if you need us. Call us back if you are wonderful. Thank you very much. >> Yeah. We're walking with you on this.

Okay. Kelly's going to take good care of you. You got to get back on and either to pep talk in 2 weeks. Whether we're on here or not, someone's going to help you. Okay. >> Bless you guys. >> All right. We love you. We're thinking about you. Oh my goodness.

>> Well, there's real life right there. And that's the tragic side of things. But the the wisdom that you gave her, I just want to recap to our audience. What Jade said was, "Hey, when you've got trauma that has been forced upon you, don't complicate it with money decisions.

Simplify, simplify, simplify.

[Music]

[Music]

This is the Ramsay Show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their life, specifically their money, their work, and their relationships.

We're so glad you've joined us today.

88825-55225 is the number to jump in on the conversation. 8 8255225

and uh sitting alongside the incomparable, the fabulously talented

Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman and I from hour 1 to two I got a wardrobe change.

First time >> nice >> I have ever done this and uh Jade's husband Sam who's become very very dear friend uh presented me with the latest Warshaw Entertainment tea and uh it's a

boxy tea. I'll be honest, the only one I have. >> That's right. You look good. >> I think I'm pulling it off. My shoulders My shoulders could be a little broader, but I can't do anything about that.

>> Hey, Jay gave me a hoodie that's a little big for me. If you want to try it on, see if you can wear it. >> Oh, okay. >> All right. All right. >> But I'm bringing this up because if you don't know Jade and Sam's story, uh they paid off nearly $500,000 in debt. They

literally live what we teach. And um and and how

they did it, they were traveling on cruises. Both of them were fabulously talented entertainment, but then as a result of all those crazy cruises, tell people how many cruises you think you guys a quick guess. What do you think?

>> Uh, for sure about 40 weeks a year.

>> 40 Sam is drawing a number in the air.

>> 2,000. >> 700 cruises. >> 700. Okay. >> Hey, I can't believe I lip read that. I suck at that. My wife thinks I'm terrible at lip reading. But anyway, as a part of that, Sam learned the business of booking the very talent that you all were and now has a great company. Yes.

And um it's your company as well and I'm proud to uh promote it.

>> You are >> Warshaw Entertainment. So if people who who would uh call Sam, what are they looking for? >> Uh anybody who's a musician, if you are a musician by your own right, if you're a comedian, we take comedians, we take dancers. Ken, you going to audition or what?

>> No. Sam would never book me for anything. Well, no. I could MC.

I'd be pretty good MC on a cruise. I'm known to be good on a mic. >> I mean, we we were friends before, but you're you're the big homie now. Like, this is different.

>> Oh, no. I love I love the Waraw. So, I I'm representing here, by the way, for free. Uh, but we're over at your house tomorrow night, so maybe I get an extra beverage.

>> Yeah. And we'll get one for you, too, James. Don't worry. >> We'll break out the good stuff for you.

>> Yes. The hoodie didn't fit. I feel bad about that. But >> I'll take the hoodie.

Kim bring you bring up a good point because it that does speak to my point

of view when you guys call in and you have a bunch of debt. That's why I'm always saying sometimes the nineto-5.

Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? Like the paycheck doesn't cut it and you have to go out there and create something that will cut it and you can do that. So, >> so when we tell you all to get a second and third job, we've done it. All right.

You don't want to hear my war stories either. >> I do want to hear them. All right. Over a cigar one night. >> Oh, that that can be arranged. Nathan is up in New Hampshire. Nathan, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Uh, so I'm calling because um I've

got about $43,000 of credit card debt

and I was I was potentially considering um one of those like debt repayment programs where they kind of settle your debt for a lesser amount. Just wanted to get your guys take on that. >> No, it's awful. We're going to help you.

>> Yeah, we wouldn't suggest that.

>> Could I be a more clear?

>> Was I a little fuzzy? >> Yeah, I think I mean, at the end of the

day, those those places are not doing

anything for you that you couldn't do for yourself, and you can actually do it in a more integral way. So, in essence, what they would do is you'd pay into a pot, and they'd they'd let those payments sit while your other payments become delinquent, and then at that point, they'd be able to make a deal and secure a lower, you know, a lower deal for you. And that's kind of the way it works. But, of course, it's laden with fees and things like that.

So again, there's part of this that you can do on your own. For instance, if you do have any of them that are delinquent or in collections, you can go ahead and secure a deal uh for pennies on the dollar with those. And then for any that are remaining, we're just going to work the debt snowball with them. Uh and we can talk more about that in a minute.

What I really want to get from you is a bigger picture of your finances right now.

right? Yeah, it's about 43,000 and and actually um all of it except for I I have a $3,000 loan that I've been paying on for like the last year >> um since I started working again and and that's the only one that's current.

Everything else has been in collections for >> wow >> a few years now. I had a I had a pretty significant life event that um >> you know I kind of just just went off the rails. I I went into homelessness and stuff and it's just not >> what >> not a good season for me. But uh >> what caused that? Was it a job loss or medical deal? What happened? >> Um yeah, I went through uh a pretty

painful divorce and then uh a month after my divorce happened, my dad died.

>> Oh. >> And um I just I I did not farewell

through all of that. >> Understand. Okay. But you feel like you're stable. You feel like you're in a good place now.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um, my current situation, I I am am living rentree with

a friend who's letting me exchange, uh, work on his house for for housing.

>> Okay. How long will that last?

>> And, uh, um, it's it's indefinite. You

know, it's it's a God thing.

>> Okay. >> Um, you know, he's Christian Christian dude who uh has taken in a couple of different people over the years and >> unless he meets a lady.

>> So, it's not indefinite. Okay. And that's what Yeah, that's what I keep telling him. I'm like I I wish that you would just meet somebody so that >> I'd have a reason to move out. >> My my point of saying that is I want to make sure that you're on proper financial footing if and when that happens or just anything changes and you know you guys decide you want to part ways. So you've got the 43,000, 40 of it

is in collections, 3,000 of it you're still paying. What's your income every month?

Um, so I I just actually today was my last day uh working for Liberty University Online Academy. >> Okay. >> And um on the 25th I'm going to start working for a local paper mill. Um and

that's going to be $26 an hour. Um it's

it's roughly uh well it's 40 hours per

pay period, but they they do shift work.

>> I'll get eight hours of overtime um in

in each pay period. And then uh >> so what will that be a month with the overtime and everything?

>> Um I haven't actually run the numbers on that. >> Okay. >> I I just know it's it's it's an $8 an hour pay increase from what I was making. >> Good. Okay. As of today.

>> Okay. So let's say you're bringing home5 $6,000 a month. Does that feel right?

>> Uh yeah. I think it'll be about that.

>> Okay. So with that, uh what I need you to do is you need an every dollar budget. Have do you have one yet?

because if you don't, we'll give you one. >> I I don't >> Okay, so we're gonna give you an every dollar budget. It's the best budgeting tool out there because not only is it going to help you understand what you're spending your money on every month, it's going to help you find margin. Okay? And when we give this app to people, I want you to understand this very clearly because this is going to blow your mind.

When we give people this app, it's going to help you find up to $9,000 of margin

in the first 15 minutes. onetime margin, which means this is money that maybe you've been allocating in other places that are best suited for your debt situation right now. So that's the average number. Maybe you'll find five, maybe you'll find four, maybe you'll find 11, but you are going to find money and margin to put towards this $3,000 loan and hopefully knock it out really, really quickly.

And then from there, the app is like having me or Ken in your pocket.

So, we're going to give you that for free. uh to try for a little while. And yeah, it's you walking the debt snowball once you find out, okay, every month I have three $4,000. You should have a lot cuz you don't have rent. I have $4,000 I can put towards this debt. How quickly can you pay off $40,000 with $4,000 plus

you're going to settle this for half, right? So, let's call it 20 really, really fast.

>> Okay? So, hang on the line. We'll get you set up with every dollar and walk this through one at a time.

>> You know what'll help people get out of debt fast? What?

>> If it's getting me out of their pocket, they'll get out fast.

[Music]

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[Music]

>> All right, let's go to Will in Milwaukee. Will, how can we help?

>> Hi. Yes, thanks so much for taking my call. >> Yeah, sure. So, I'll give you the quick backstory. Uh, I'm 28 years old. My wife

and I are debtree except the house. We have about 180 grand in our retirement accounts. When we go do projections on what that's going to turn into when we're 67, it's north of 8 million even if we stop contributing. Uh, so we're contributing about 4,000 a month right now.

And my question for you guys is, would it be unwise for us to start reallocating that 4,000 a month to help pay off the duplex that we're living in right now and eventually pay cash for the next one? Uh, all with the goal of creating some income that we can use to supplement in the years leading up to retirement. >> That's a really good question. So, let's let's play this out based on how much of your what portion of your income is the 4,000?

Is that 15% of your >> It's right around 15%. >> Okay.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, you're proposing, hey, instead of putting this to retirement, I'd like to put this towards Yeah. the real estate dream.

>> Correct. >> Okay. I would not do that. Um, now, if you were investing more than 15%, I would say, yeah, let's let's pull it back to 15% and put the rest on the property. But, uh, it's so important

once you've reached the point that you've reached, right? You've paid off all of your debt and you freed up your biggest wealth-b buildinging tool in order to do that. And so I love the idea

of, you know, diversification. And you're doing that, right? If you're investing 15% through your 401k, you

know, through a Roth IRA, you are diversifying that amongst your different funds. But you're also, if you're putting anything uh towards your mortgage, which you are, that is a forced savings account, which is also an investment. So you've got that working with you. Anything above and beyond that, I think it's going to throw you off track because here's the thing.

You are going to retire one day, right? when you're in your 60s or your 50s or whatever you decide and you're likely not going to sell the house that you're in immediately and use that money to retire on, right? You're going to be living there. So, giving time for your 401k or your your Roth IRA to compound over time so that you can live off of that is important.

And so, if you stop contributing to that now, do you see what I'm saying? You won't enjoy that growth in the future.

of your gross income. And then anything above and beyond that, now we're putting extra on the mortgage and we're paying off the mortgage. And once that's done, anything above and beyond that, now we can put it into new new real estate properties that we can purchase. Does that make sense?

>> That does. Yeah. I I guess my fear is

struggling with money from 50 to 67,

having a stacked retirement account, and just counting down the days until I can touch that tax free. >> I understand. >> But why? Wait, wait, wait, wait. I don't. >> Why would you be struggling? >> Because he doesn't have a bridge is what he's saying. >> But but what about your income?

>> There's there's definitely our income. I guess it it just feels like 67 and beyond are kind of covered. I'd like to start working backwards and cover us from 45 to 67 now.

>> Well, okay. Well, I did have a question.

Again, I don't understand that reasoning, but let me go back for a second. I thought I heard you say that you guys are living in a duplex.

>> That's correct. >> So, when you asked the question to us, so you're living in a duplex, you're living on one side and renting out the other. >> Yes, sir. >> How much do you owe on the duplex?

uh 430 and some change.

>> Okay. And your question was, should you take that 4,000? So, you were saying, do I stop baby step four, 15% and go all in

on baby step six? Is that what I'm hearing you say?

>> That's correct. Yep. >> Yeah. No, I agree. Jade's right. No, we don't just stop. And you're going to be thankful that >> for that because dude, but I here's so to that point. I guess I'm not understanding why you think that you're somehow going

to be better off if you have two

properties. >> He wants to income producing beyond 59 and a half.

>> I know. I totally get it, but I'm playing out the call. Okay. >> What you said to us was uh should I do this and get another property? So now you would have really two properties.

The one you live in spitting off some rent and then another property spitting off some rent. Am I still on the same page? >> Yeah, that's correct. >> Okay. How much would you anticipate that spitting off in income? Real number.

>> So, if we pay off the the place we're living in right now, it would spit off 2500 and we would ideally buy a similar

place that would spit off uh 5,000 a

month. >> Okay. So, that's $7,500 a month.

>> That's correct. >> Okay. And how long is it going to take you I'm going somewhere with this point. I'm with you. How long would it take you

to get to that place where you are now generating $7,500 a month from those two properties? How many years?

>> Roughly 8 to 10 years.

>> My point exactly. You'd be better off

continuing to do what Jay told you to do and and let's work on baby step six. All right. So, let's pay it off. That's fine. But but let's stay with the process. And so you're not going to take that that that 15% a month and not invest that. Continue to invest that.

But if you're wanting to make more money, uh I think you'd be better off uh just following our plan and think about how much of a raise you're going to get when you get done with baby step six. So let's just take that. How long before you're done with baby step six and you paid off this current home?

>> Four years is the goal. >> Okay. So four years. So in four years you get a nice raise, correct?

>> Yeah. That's >> okay. That's 2500 a month if I was paying attention. Yes.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And then what about our income?

What do we both do? What what are our jobs? >> I'm in sales and my wife is a physical therapist. >> You're in sales? Sales is is the

greatest industry in the world for rate making more money. What kind of What are you doing? >> I sell a feed additive for cows.

>> Well, I don't know anything about the feed additive market, but tell me, is there room for growth?

There's room for growth. Uh I guess my dilemma is I don't want to do it forever. I'd like to do sales in a different industry. >> Great. Oh, this is a great idea. So, you know what we do there? We start today on building that bridge. What What industry would you like to be in?

>> I'd like to be in the real estate business. >> Clearly. >> Real estate. Great. >> Yeah. >> So, now let's let's go get our real estate license. How long will that take and how much will it cost?

>> Uh it's in the works right now. A couple hundred bucks, maybe six months left.

>> Okay, great. And when you're done with that, I want you to call Buffini and Company, my good friends Brian and Dermit at Befini and that company.

They're the number one real estate training company in the world and do everything that they offer and you're going to become a high performer. And now we're going to be looking back on this phone call on this day and we're going to go, man, I was selling myself short by trying to make an additional $7,500 a month and shortch changing myself when I'm older and I'm going to be crazy wealthy. So, I love your spirit. I love your aim.

You're just misguided in your plan to get there. So, work the baby steps and let's go make more money. If I want more money now before I'm 67 and drawn from retirement, I'm going to go make more money. And here's what's great.

Real estate, there's no cap on that.

>> No cap. Plus, here's the other thing.

Once you get to the point where you if to Ken's point, if you continue to grow your income and you're still investing 15% of that, what's going to happen is you're going to start maxing out your 401k and you're going to look for somewhere else that you can invest and maybe you'll look over and do like a little brokerage account that if you do decide to retire from your job early

before 59 and a half, that will spit off some money for you as well. So, all of this has a win-win potential over the long haul. Ken, you're a magician, by the way. >> Why? >> Cuz you crafted that call. You just you turned it in. >> You did a little abracadabra and it turned into a work. >> Wow. >> It turned into >> Well, you know, I appreciate the kind words. Will, are you tracking with me?

>> I am. Yeah, that makes sense. >> Yeah. Listen, great. Your hunger is where it needs to be. And now, let's just put all of our focus on winning in the transition to real estate. Crush it.

Enjoy life. And you're going to be a very, very wealthy old guy. M love it.

>> So, it's going to be fun. >> Got it. >> Yeah. Thanks for the call. Yeah. I Well, thanks. I don't know what I didn't think it was very m magical. It was just like, wait a second. >> I saw the >> Yeah, he's all focused on it in the hat.

>> I'm going to try to use my baby step for money to max out and I'm like, that's not that big of a play. >> Yeah. Let's get more money.

>> I'm not sneezing at 7,500 a month, but it was going to take eight years. >> That's facts. And by by the way, he if

he's a real estate professional, next year >> he should be making 7500 a month.

>> Clock it >> easy, you know. So, uh, anyway, there it

is, folks. Don't outthink all of this. I got to tell you, I love when people call and they think that there was a caveat in the baby steps. Old Dave didn't think

about this one right here. And it just they work. The baby steps work. And if you're a new listener, save yourself the time and energy of calling us up and trying to re-engineer them. >> It ain't happening. >> It's not happening. You're wrong. We're right. And uh so therefore, let's just

cut our losses. >> That was the perfect I said it ain't happening. You said it's not happening.

[Music] >> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

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But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

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>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Music]

All right, the Ramsey. So, question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi.

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>> Okay. Today's question comes from Greg in Minnesota. He says, "We're on baby step three and saving for our 3 to sixmonth emergency fund. We are consumer debtree and just purchased a home last year that is within our budget. I'm looking for advice on whether it's okay to add Botox for my wife." >> Hey, now >> into our budget so that she uh or that

let's see into our budget or if that should be held off until we have 3 to six months saved. I've heard Botox is expensive and I don't want to stray from our system by adding on any ongoing payments to our budget. Our current home, I'm sorry, this is wild to me. Our

current home income is 150,000 and we

currently have 35,000 in our emergency fund and any insight would be appreciated. Okay, let's >> How How much does Botox cost?

>> I don't know. Okay, cuz I don't need it yet. Hey. Okay. >> Well, look at you. She's fabulous. knows it. >> Ah, yes. You just said that. I love it.

>> Can we say that? >> Uh, you just did. >> I mean, I did. >> You just did. And I have no problem with it. >> All right. Here we are. He's got 35,000 saved now. I don't know.

>> He says his income is 150.

>> Yeah. >> So, 3 to 6 months there. Let's see. What do we talk about? What's a net on 150?

>> Oh, it depends on the state. But let's just say uh you're bringing in, I don't know, 12,000 a month. Now, here's where here's what I want to remind people about with the baby steps. And when it comes specifically to baby step three, it's your basic budget, okay? It's not

it's not you trying to 6x your income,

if that makes sense. Do you know what I mean? Like what you bring home for that month. That's not what we're talking about.

We're saying, "Okay, when I do my budget, there's the things that I need to do, and then there's some of the things I want to do, and then there's all the extra miscellaneous." when you're doing your emergency fund, it's kind of what must be true to make the household run. That's what we're looking for. So, my guess is that he's pretty close to being there. Now, Botox, >> here we go.

>> What do you got, Ken? >> Um, this is, of course, you know, some AI chat GPT stuff. Here we go. The average cost for regular Botox treatment can range, now this is where this gets crazy, but this gives you something to work with, can range from $200 to $1,200

per session. So, me thinks that >> $1,200 per session. How often, though?

How often? >> Uh, well, it just says per session. So,

this comes down to your vanity. It's not like, you know, uh, okay. Generally, prices range from $10 to $25 per unit.

And most people require between 20 to 60 units for common treatment areas like forehead lines, crows feet. Let me tell you something. >> But how often do you get the units? Is it like every six months? >> No. No, it's up to you. There is no >> Kelly is saying like every six months is kind of >> Oh, is that right? Every six months.

>> Yeah. Give or take. And I have a couple friends who have said something like that. >> But I think that boils down to again how vain you are. And listen to >> how deep your wrinkles. >> Okay. I got people in the audience out here going three months. >> Every three months. And is that cost

>> you're every three months? Oh, this is great. We're talking through the glass where we're getting real time info. >> It's real real time info. So, >> okay. So, run the numbers on every three months. >> Every three months. >> And um so, let me ask you a question. Uh

the $200 to $1,200 per session. How

close to that are you? Are you on the low end or high end?

>> About I can't read. >> About 700 bucks. >> Okay. So, let's say let's just pretend she's spending $700 every three months.

Yeah, >> you got to budget for it. >> You got to budget for it. And I think that, you know, they've got their house.

They're in baby step four.

>> This is the time where you can do you start to live your life because you're out of debt and they've got three to six. They don't have that number, do you? Based on what we know about their income. >> I don't. As long as they're not going into debt for it. Here's here's let me go through the framework about knowing how to spend. Okay. So it's kind of these these five questions that you ask yourself. So the first one is am I a person who's budgeting?

>> Do I budget my money? Yes, I budget my money. Okay, that's a green light. Next one is am I a person who's out of debt >> and p you know lives a debtree lifestyle? Yes, that's a green light.

Next question is have I do I have the proper uh insuranceances in place?

>> If you do life insurance, all your other insuranceances, yes, that's a green light. Next thing is am I a person who's saving for the future? Well, yeah, you are. You've got your 3 to 6 months.

You're about to start uh on your baby step four as soon as that's done. Yeah, you're a person who's doing what we teach in line with baby steps. And finally, am I a person who's prioritizing generosity? If you're doing those five things now, it means that if

you have something pop up like this, should I take that little trip to Disney? Should I do the Botox? Should I, you know, get a new couch? likely as long as it sticks in your budget and you're not going into debt because we already said you're a debtree person.

The answer is likely yes >> because you've proven that you're a financially responsible adult and this is just called fun things that you get to do when you're a financially responsible adult. So I me thinks the

answer is yay.

>> So that's so Kelly by the way I was I was doing more research as Jade was breaking that down. You're right. The typical effects of Botox last three to four months. So, if we do the three-month thing. Way to go, Kelly. Uh,

I know you don't need it. She's She's young and very young and looks lovely.

Excellent. I needed to make sure I mentioned that. I think she was >> Have you tried it? >> No, I'm not putting that in my face.

>> You wouldn't try it. >> Why? Wrinkles on a man are signs of

failure or wisdom. >> Why is that? How come? >> I'm not ashamed of either. >> It's so funny. When guys get older, they're like the age is like, "Oh, yes.

This is a good thing." >> Yeah. >> I'll tell you what else I'm not doing. I'm not coloring my hair either. >> Never. >> Never. >> Okay. >> I'm not going to do it, man. >> You're going to go silver fox.

>> I I don't I don't want to offend anybody that does the Botox, but I It cannot be good for you. >> I I do feel like it is looks better on

when men get their face pulled. Let me tell you how much it All right, I'm going out on a limb cuz I don't mind.

>> Go for it, kid. >> This is my opinion. This is not a Ramsay

show official opinion, okay? But as a guy, I don't think Botox makes ladies

look better. It makes them look like they have Botox. In other words, I look at him and I go, she no, I'm love.

Listen, I love Land Man. It's one of my favorite shows. Deme Moore. Okay. Dei Moore is beautiful. She's older. It's very obvious to me that Deme Moore is got too far. When you do it right, no

one even knows that cuz I'm a woman, Ken K. You've not done it. But I know the women who have done it and when they do it right, no one is they're none the wiser. >> Okay. All right. So, I'm going to I'm going to revise my opinion. For those of you women who aren't doing it right, we know >> because when you laugh, nothing changes.

>> Nothing. And I don't think that's normal. I feel like I'm looking at a um a Madame Tusad uh wax museum figure.

Okay. >> That's not natural. >> Let's go deeper in the hole because we're in it now. >> Natural beauty.

>> We're in the hole now, Ken. >> No, I'm not. >> No, not you. We cuz we're talking about it.

We're going to take it a step further. >> I like where this is going. Okay, this is question of the day. The Y refi folks are getting their money's worth.

I'm telling you right now. >> So, I do think that when you do Botox and invest in getting it right, you can do it. If you're doing it right, no one really knows. And you started early enough to where no one knew you had wrinkles that disappeared in the first place.

>> I'm cynical.

>> Well, now that's completely obvious. It looks like you got stung by a bee and you've having a reaction. >> That's what I've been saying. >> It's It's ridiculous. >> So, what we're saying is let's reallocate this money, women. No more lip injections. Reallocate that money to something else. >> That is a foreign substance. Yes or no?

>> Yes. It's a foreign substance. It it it it's a paralysis. It par it paralyzes

the muscle.

>> That's what it is. >> I I just got to tell you, we all know.

And so if the point is to try to look better and it's not No, you all are failing. >> Not all the people who do it right and I'm trying to tell you there's people who do it right.

>> I Okay, I just say I'm just saying I Why

can't we just be natural?

>> Because we can James say something. This

new segment is called Kinsplaining and it's going to be a regular thing we do. >> Kinsplaining. I like it. >> Kinsplaining. >> Okay. How do you feel about >> I'm pro woman. How do you feel about a man who gets like hair plugs or like

does something like that to >> that? I have a different I got a different position on that because you can tell cuz if it's back here, no. If you get it back here, you can't. Now, if you get a hairline like my hairline has been receding for quite some time, I'm very aware of it. But if I show up next week and it's an inch down here, we all know something's not right.

>> But if it looks good, Ken, I would support you to leave. >> But that's my hairline. It used to be there. So that I go for because the hairline was there. I'm restoring it.

Your lips never looked like a raft ever.

[Music]

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[Music]

Buying or selling a home is a very big deal and with the clickbait headlines and conflicting data that's flying all around, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. And we want to always here at the Ramsey Show uh be on the front of all this junk and tell you the truth uh not just use clickbait stuff. So median home prices stayed steady last month at about 441,000.

The number of homes for sale hit 1 million for the second month in a row.

And uh the 15-year fixed rate also held steady at 5.95% last month. Uh, so if

you're debt free, have a s have a fully funded emergency fund and a solid down payment, now is a good time to buy or sell to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence. We got you covered. Go to ramiesolutions.com/market.

Ramseysolutions.com or you can click the link on the show notes in podcast and YouTube. And by the way, I want to just mention we give you a lot of information every show. The show notes, the show notes, the show notes. All right. I call it James Child's Treasure Trove. All right. He's got it all there. It's uh he just has it

there for you. So, don't ever fret if you don't hear us uh properly or you forget what we told you about. Show notes have it all. Lucy, >> you like that? I thought that was pretty good. >> I don't know how I feel about that. >> He didn't he I can tell you he did not like it. Uh Lucy is up in Akran, Ohio.

Lucy, how can we help?

>> Hi guys. Uh thanks for taking my call.

Uh, if I disappear suddenly, it's because uh my son had another blowout him on my hip right now.

>> Okay. She's got a little baby on >> a blowout. >> Yeah, he's he's he's a month old and

great.

>> Hey, if anything goes wrong, >> listen, we can handle a blowout. In fact, if we heard it, it would really wake America up. That would be even more fun, which I'm here for that. That doesn't phase me at all. All right.

>> I make no promises. Okay.

>> Uh so the question we have for you is my husband and I we want to buy a 12 or even 15 passenger van uh to future proof

for our family. >> Uh the problem is right now we only have two kids. We have a toddler and uh Will over here. He's an infant >> and you already want a 15 passenger van.

You got major plans.

>> Problem. >> I'm more concerned less about the plan of the van but the process of having that many kids. You got a little guy that's experiencing blowouts on your hip. Let's take our time. Mom, what are we in a hurry for?

>> Yeah. By the time you have the 15 seriousness, stop this madness of planning for something that doesn't exist. >> Yeah. By the time you fill the van, the van's going to be old. Like it's going to be 15 years old.

>> That's part of why I'm calling. The other part of it is we do have reasons why we're looking for a big like a literally big vehicle. Um he we have a

collection of seven uncles. Uh the only one under six foot right now is 14 and

he is rapidly approaching six foot. Um so we have we have big family genes.

Also my youngest two siblings are 11 and 14. He just started at a very >> go back one one one beat.

>> I'm lost on the seven uncle.

>> Seven six foot tall uncles. How often are you transporting these uncles?

That was more for context of how big our children will likely be. We I doubt >> Shut up. You thought she was going to drive the uncles. >> I was concern Listen. What's crazier?

What's crazier? What is crazier? Me asking about if she's driving the seven foot uncles or her assuming she's going to have 15 7 foot children 15 years

before they're even born. Yeah, I I Lucy, I went bad.

>> Now that Jade Now that Jade has caught up with the same call that I'm on, u I

think she's right. What is that again?

We You literally I went This is what happened. I want you to hear what happened. Uh Jade Ken, should I buy should my husband and I buy a 15ft passenger or whatever for 15 kids? We only have two. Okay. And I went, "Well, that's a little silly. Maybe we shouldn't be thinking about that." And your response was, "Well, here's the other reason. We have seven uncles that are all six foot or taller, so we're going to need a lot of leg room. Thus, that's why we These kids are babies,

>> right? I I have I have more reasons to get to, though. >> Okay, go ahead. You're 0 for two. You'd got two strikes. What's the third reason for a massive van?

>> Well, first of all, I run a youth group.

Uh, so I would like to take the kids two places all in one vehicle to make it easier for everybody. >> That's not your problem. that >> that's not your problem. That's the church's problem.

>> Somebody needs to donate a van.

>> You're correct. You're correct. >> I know that's three strikes. What's next? I'll give you up to five. Let's go for reason number four that you need to empty your emergency fund >> for this. >> Which is not an emergency. None of these are emergencies. And and not only they not emergency, they're bad reasons. Give me two more.

>> So, we want to go on We want to go on vacations. So, we want to be able to tow a pop-up camper and perhaps, like I said, take the younger siblings and have space for them as well. Um, and the other problem is the other cars that we have are in uh varying states of disrepair and so we're trying to plan ahead for that. >> Okay.

So, uh those are a little bit closer, but again, not a reason to none of these are emergencies and and none of this is a good financial decision right now. Uh, if we can't afford to tow a camper, then we change our vacation plan and we go rent a place, a cabin in the woods.

>> So, I mean, like, I don't know why Jade

is she's gone. The church giggle is in full effect. Lucy, do you understand what I'm saying? Like, none of these constitute doing what you think you need to do. Like, let's just be patient.

Let's fund these things. So, where would you put yourself on the baby steps right now? We are about at baby step four. We were

investing 7% and we temporarily brought it to eight or not 8% that didn't make any sense. 0% so that we could stack the cash for uh the cars because of the condition that they're in right now.

>> Okay. So our so so our next step is we

need to plan for a car. So we've got a syncing fund going to take care of the first car situation. Correct. Are we going to have one?

>> Correct. We do. >> Yeah. That's the play right now. Not the gigantic van. Now, when the day arrives, God bless your soul. If you've got 12 kids, then we deal with that. But right now, no, we've got to uh continue the baby steps. And then along the way, if

we've got to replace a car, then that's what we begin to focus on. But don't change the formula, okay? Because we want you to continue to win >> even when life stuff happens. And we need to never touch the emergency fund unless it is an absolute for alarm

emergency. You with me?

>> Mhm. I am. I am.

>> Okay. >> I can tell you about the other cars if that helps understand why we're looking at a car now.

>> Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, you do you need to replace the car now? Are we in that kind of a situation? We We're have multiple cars that are not running.

>> We have a 2010 Ford Focus, which is the

most reliable thing we have right now.

Uh, and it started shifting a little weird. So, we're a little a little wary.

What does that mean? We got a 2000.

>> When you say it started to be weird, is that it's making a clank clank noise.

The brakes don't work. I mean, what does that actually mean? >> It's had a couple funks. It's had a couple funks when it went to shift, so it makes us worried about the transmission. It It I forget how many miles it has on it, but I think it's like a lot.

>> All right, real quick. What's the second car?

2007 Toyota 4Runner that's going to the shop on Sunday. >> What's it going to the shop for?

>> It is singing opera on the highway. We don't even know what the problem is. >> Singing. So, it's making a high-pitched squealing noise.

>> Uh, not even squealing. It is changing pitch as we break, but then not when we break. It's very weird. Okay. My dad's a mechanic. He doesn't even recognize it.

Hence the shock. >> Okay. So there's part of this where I

just feel like you are going to extremes

on many of the things that you're saying. Yeah. >> Right. You went you jumped straight to the 15 passenger van. We jumped straight to this and now we're assuming that you know you you take these cars to the the

>> mechanic and all hell will break loose, right? Maybe it's just a normal repair.

>> And a four, by the way, a Toyota 4Erunner uh it might require some work, but those are known to drive for ever.

How many th How many miles you got on the four? >> We bought it. >> How many miles you have on? >> Um, you know, my husband is listening to the live, so he might text me how many miles.

>> Oh, hi. >> My head I don't remember, but >> Okay, here's my point. >> Because it is it is also higher uh in mileage. Quite high.

>> Okay. Well, again, you guys have the money. >> Otherwise, good. >> But here's the thing.

You have the money set aside to pay for those repairs. And and so if that buys you time on that, great. And then let's let's take a look at the uh Ford Focus and go what's the cost to fix that? We probably have the money to fix that.

That's the focus. Not a gigantic van that we actually don't need, but we're going to try to talk ourselves into cuz we'd like to drag something along behind it. Let's just stay simple right now cuz

you got a lot going on and take care of that little guy and his sour stomach.

Hope that all works out.

[Music]

[Music]

This is the Ramsay Show where America hangs out to talk about their money, their work, and their relationships. And we're glad you've joined us today.88255225

is the phone number.882552 88 8255 5225

alongside the incomparably fabulous Jay

Borshaw. I'm just Ken. Isn't that the name of the song in the movie? >> Just Ken. >> I'm just Ken. Uh, hey, thrilled that you guys are with us. And we're going to get started right here with Andrew in Seattle. Andrew, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, and thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um, so I' I've got a kind of question.

I've I've always been kind of money I wouldn't say illiterate but not me and me and money were never big friends.

Um so I've been following your plan for about three months. I'm midway through my snowball. >> Okay. >> So my question is I'm 56 years old and

I've taken I've stopped my 401k so I

could basically get my snowball rolling.

>> Good. >> I've got two debts left to pay off. One is a credit card of 6,300.

Um the other one's my car loan for 24

uh8 to 24,875.

So my question is once I get the credit card paid off, which is some going to be somewhere around January, um the car is

going to take me another year, maybe

year and a couple of months to pay that off. Should I put my money back into my

401k prior to paying off the car?

Because with my age, I haven't put a ton

of money into my 401k. I've only got about um about 150,000 in total uh

assets >> um so far plus a mortgage.

>> What is that? >> And my 50.

>> So I've got um about a 100,000 in the in

a IRA from another previous employment.

And then with this employer, I've got a 401k of roughly about 58,000.

>> Okay. Um I can under I can appreciate that feeling of wanting to take care, you know, take advantage of that compound interest as quickly as possible, but yeah, you have to remember

that this debt, as long as you have this debt in your life, it's going to keep you from going further faster. And so by

paying it off, we're allowing us to focus our all of our resources and all of our intentions at one thing at a time. And because of that, it's going to allow us to go faster and accomplish more. Uh as opposed to saying, well, I'm

kind of going to pay off the debt, but I'm going to also keep investing over here. You got to think about it. The way I like to think about it is if I have a picture of water and several glasses that I have to fill up, it takes me forever to fill up the glasses if I put a drop in each one as I go. But if I just go ahead and fill one up, that one's full. I can set it to the side.

It's done with. And now I can focus all of my attention on the filling up filling up filling up the next glass. So that's kind of how I like to think of it. Um let's talk about this in in real

numbers for a minute. Uh it kind of bothered me that you said it's going to take you till January to pay off the 6,000 in credit cards. Uh tell me more

about what your margin is and what you're making every single month.

>> So I'm in the snowball. I'm putting about uh about 1,800 towards the credit

card. Once that's done, I'll be putting 2,000 towards the car. Um so I I have

roughly right now about 1,800 to play with to push towards these debts. Um the

car loan itself is 3.95 a month. So once the credit card's done, I'll have that 1,800 plus the 300 and

change to put back towards the car.

>> Okay. Um, and that's about as flexible as I can really get past all my other normal bills. >> Are you side >> hustling mortgage?

>> What's that? >> Are you doing a side hustle? Picking up some extra money.

>> No, I I don't really have time to do that. I mean, I I wish I could. I wish I had like a passive income that I could actually do. >> No, not passive. But explain to me more about uh So, you're 56. Are you single?

>> No. >> Okay. So, married. So, I have a housewife. Yeah.

>> Okay. A housewife. Okay.

>> Is that your wife or is that a position?

>> Yeah.

>> So, I have a wife. Um, she's currently not working at the moment.

>> Why isn't she working? >> So, she's trying to get together a photography business and right now the

it's very sparse here in

>> here. Here's where here and Ken Ken is going to say the same. Why? Matter of fact, why don't you say it, Ken? >> Well, I just I I'm going to immediately go, what has she done in her in her work past that she can leverage from a skill and experience standpoint to go make some decent money right now? This speeds this up fast. If she's if she's making somewhere between, let's just lowball it, $ 35, $40,000 a year. That's a game

changer. You would agree?

>> Oh, I totally agree. Well, let's press pause on the fledgling photography business and she can mess around on the weekends at night and take pictures and get better and you know all that kind of stuff and not like completely you know abandon it. But as it as it relates to a business you know what what has she done in the past? What what kind of work has she done?

>> Um she was doing quality uh control in

like a insurance company that's basically moved out of Washington.

It's photography. What was she making?

>> Uh like 40 grand a year.

>> Yeah, >> somewhere around that. 50.

>> Are we not on the same page here?

>> We we totally are. But you have >> I totally am on the same page with you.

>> What's your pause? >> I've always paid for the for the home and the our bills and everything and she's kept her bills and whatnot herself. So currently, you know, I'm I'm

handling it all. So, it's it hasn't that hasn't changed. It's mainly my my my

retirement I'm trying to push towards.

So, when I know that I'm retired, I've got enough nest egg for her to survive even if she doesn't have work.

>> So, here's the thing. We can if you

continue to silo it off and it's and make it it's my job to do this. I'm the one who's going to do this. You're cutting off 50% of your ining income

potential because she's your partner.

>> Yeah. What I heard you not say is that Ken, you and I are on the same page, but my wife is not on that page.

>> Is that it?

>> I wouldn't exactly say that. No, I She's She's definitely wants to and she feels bad that she's not.

>> Um >> Well, let's not feel bad about it, but let's feel motivated to go and let's get a job. She needs to get a job.

Yeah, because here, let's just play this out for uh for a moment. So, you told me you're concerned about retirement. You got a,000 bucks in the IRA or 100,000 bucks in the IRA, 56 years old. So, let's just pretend uh let's pretend this

year you were able to knock out the debt because your wife gets a job and you kill it. You find a way to bring in some extra income as well. and you guys pay off the $6,000 in credit cards and you're able to somehow knock out the $25,000 car between now and let's say February, right? And then you turn around and say, "You know what? We're going to start contributing $1,000 a month into our retirement." If you do that from age 56 to 67, you're going to

have about $550,000.

Okay, that's that's pretty good. But

that is with her working and her adding to this, right? Because the hope is that you guys can continue to increase your income and instead of investing, I don't know, $1,000 uh $1,000 a month, maybe you can bust it up to 1,200 thou. You know what I'm saying? $1,200 uh dollars a month and you can get that closer to 600,000, right? So, every little bit counts in this equation to getting you guys to a point that you can retire with dignity. Um, but she's a big part of

that. She's 50% of the puzzle here.

>> That's right. So, hey, let's band together. And boy, these these numbers change very very quickly on all sides, right? We pay off the debt faster. We start piling retirement money faster.

Let's do this together. Lock arms and let's go. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]

Hey, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feel like you can't get ahead, we'd love for you to join one of our free every dollar trainings. Uh we have a new training every week this month and they're all hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities. Uh we're going to show you how to stick to a budget and find $9,000 of margin using the Every

Dollar Budget app. It's fantastic. Uh if

you have any questions during the live Q&A, you get a chance to ask them.

That's always fun and it's free. You can sign up at ramseysolutions.com/webinar.

Ramseyolutions.comwebinar.

Bob is joining us now in Ohio. Bob, how can we help today?

>> Yeah. Hi. Um, I want to know what my

next step should be. My wife and I, we've been doing the baby steps for the past year and a half.

>> Um, and we are almost um done with baby

step number two. >> Awesome. >> Um, we have about $4,000 of medical

bills left. >> And then it's just and then it's just our mortgage. Um that being said, in

March, um my wife got let go from work

and um you know, she's got all these

health issues with >> clotting disorders and seizures and such. Um so, >> so she's not currently working and last

month we found out that my 13-year-old

has a malignant brain tumor.

>> Oh no. So sorry.

>> Um, so he's he's going through chemo.

Um, and I guess my question is

with my wife not working, um, should we

should we stop with the baby steps for now and just pile up cash or >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You guys, >> yes, >> you're you're getting hit hard right now. Um, and the baby steps are really important, but during times like this, yeah, you got to hit pause. And right now, the sole focus for you guys is getting well >> and fighting cancer and fighting, you know, the things that your your wife is dealing with as well. The good news is you you guys understood the assignment

several months ago, a year ago, and paid off the majority of your debt, and it's put you in a really great uh position now to be able to push pause and to be able to focus on health. Um, >> what is when let's talk about what it means to pile up cash and kind of put some some real numbers to that. So, what's your family out-ofpocket max every year?

Um, all right. When you say out of pocket max, you mean >> the the maximum amount that you'll pay

uh beyond your deductible. For some people, that number is the same as their deductible. For some people, it could be slightly more.

>> Okay. So, actually, when my wife got laid off, um, we had insurance through

her work. Now, we have, uh, state Medicaid, I think. >> Okay. Okay. So, we we don't have a

deductible or co-pays.

Um, and as far as I know,

um, all of his chemo treatments are

going to be covered. >> Good. That's great. >> Um, we just have to make sure, you know, we get the pre-authorization.

>> Um, >> what was she making and what was she doing before she was laid off?

>> Well, she so she was an accounting coordinator and I think she was making about 19 an hour full-time.

>> Okay. And with all those health issues that you mentioned for her, is she able to work?

>> So, her neurologist says that she shouldn't work right now.

>> Um, and she's not allowed to drive because of her seizures.

>> Um, >> okay. >> So, >> what about your income? What's your income? >> Uh, my income is um 20 bucks an hour.

So, roughly 40,000 gross.

>> What do you do?

>> Mechanic >> on cars.

>> Yes. Okay. Is there overtime options for

you?

>> Um, there is overtime, but um I work at

my dad's auto shop, so and it's just me

and him. It's a very small business. The

the business itself can't afford to pay

time and a half, >> right? Um, >> let me ask you this is if uh and I'm not

suggesting this, but I but I got to poke in >> on this. How can we make more income right now?

>> Um, if you were not working for your dad in this small shop, what could you make in your area as a mechanic? Could you make more?

>> I could. >> And would you have time and a half options there?

>> Yes. Um that that being said, before my

son got diagnosed, um I started

um flipping cars, buy, fix, and and resell. >> Yeah. >> Um and I just sold I just sold a car. Um

and that put about >> that put about 6,500 in our account.

>> Good. >> All of that is that 6,500 all of that was profit?

>> No. >> How much of it was profit?

Uh about 2500.

>> Okay. And how long does it take you to flip a car?

>> Well, um so it was a new venture and

that was my first flip. Um and it took

about 3 months.

>> Okay. >> I' I I want you to pause the flip situation just because there is risk involved. And I know I'm not even going to suggest that you leave your dad's shop. Uh, but I do think you've got to

consider overtime when it means what I mean by that is working for somebody else, finding some side projects where you can do mechanical work. I think that will help with this process because

where I'm going with this is to the extent that you can, replacing your wife's income is a goal because that's a pretty big hit you just took. >> It is big, >> right? >> I mean, it's half the income.

>> That's exactly right. And you're going through this now. I'm glad you have your son's bills covered. That's great. And seems like you'd have her medic medical medical stuff covered as well.

>> Is there we still need more income?

>> Is there a cure in the future for your wife? Is there something that you guys are working towards where she they can, you know, put those seizures on hold or is there is there a

>> Well, they got her they've got her on medication and they're trying to figure out the correct dosage for that, but also um they want to figure out what's

causing the seizures first.

>> Understand? Okay. So, she's got she's got some time ahead of her before >> she's back in the game.

>> And the neurologist said that um said that she shouldn't drive for a minimum

of 6 months after her last seizure.

>> Okay.

Okay, understood. So, she's we're looking for work from home positions.

We're working looking for things that she can do on her own time. Yeah. Create her own schedule.

>> And you know, if she takes a job and

something happens and she's let go, >> then so be it. But I don't think we should allow it to, you know, stop her from looking for things. >> More income right now does does a couple things. Number one, it it it stacks cash

for whatever additional treatments may be needed that you would fund. Um, but

it also puts you in a good position that once we hopefully get the all clear here, um, that you're not only paying off debt, but you got that fully funded emergency fund.

>> Okay. >> So, yes, pause the baby steps for right now because you really only have the one $4,000 medical debt.

>> And I I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't be opposed to you calling them up and telling them your situation, >> seeing if they'll clear some of that.

>> Yeah. I I wouldn't I wouldn't be opposed to taking a stab at that. They go, "Look, here's the deal. Okay, this is what happened to my wife. This is her condition. This is what the doctors have told her. >> And so, and and she was laid off. She couldn't she can't do a normal thing anyway. And then here's what's going on with my son. And uh we we're going to

take care of this at some point, but right now we can't. We've got to we've got to batten down the hatches.

>> And let's see how if we got a really nice, sweet, kind, reasonable person on the other end of that phone that might work with you on that. >> Uh but yes, stack cash right now. But in order for you to stack cash, you got to go make more or your wife's got to do something from home that she's able to do cuz your income just got cut in half.

>> Mhm. >> Right. And we we did just um we just

paid off the last of our credit cards um last week. >> Great job. >> Good. >> And we we called them up and explained the situation and they were willing to settle for a lower amount.

>> Great. You could I mean you can try the same thing with the credit cards or with the medical debt. I just think that right now, even if they cut it in half, that $2,000 is money that you need to stack up and see if they'll just hold that deal for you. Say, "Will you just get this for me in writing and as soon as things kind of pick back up, we'll send you the money?" That kind of thing.

Uh, I'm sorry that you're going through this. It's really tough. >> Hang in there, Bob. It's going to get better and you guys have done the right thing. You're a good man.

[Music]

Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Go to our show notes, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" Complete the quiz and that'll give you a quick update and next steps and that'll help you if you feel like you've stalled out. Caleb is joining us now in Atlanta, Georgia.

Caleb, how can we help? Hey, how are you doing? >> Good, sir. >> Thanks for having me on.

Yeah, I my question's pretty uh pretty simple.

my mom my father passed away about a year ago and uh my mom has just sold the

house. And so she basically basically

got a mom who's got about 1,200 in social security coming in and we'll have aboutund20,000 in the bank and that's everything. No house, got to rent something. That's kind of her situation. So that money in the bank no job though she will maybe look for something but it's all kind of new and figuring out.

I actually I actually live in East Africa and so it's not easy you know figuring out so trying to give her some some good advice and I have my thoughts and let's see what they say here and so >> that 120 bas she needs to live on it is what it come and other than that social security and so what would you guys say is a good direction? Well, what first tell us what is she getting in social security? >> 12 about 1,200 13 I think it's 1300 a month. >> How old is she?

>> She's 72. >> Okay. Um >> so my dad didn't leave much you know he doesn't have he didn't have 401k didn't have any of that stuff. >> Sure.

>> And >> so the hard part the hard part with this is all right. Um 1300 social security.

needs some place to rent. Um,

she's in a small town or is she in a metro area? >> Currently, currently she's living with my sister in Colorado. And so for for

numbers sake, she currently has an apartment that she's going to probably move into that will be about 1,700 a month. >> And who's going to cover the difference?

Because she's got 1300.

>> Yeah. See, that's part of that's part of the conversation. Obviously, we'll help as much as we're not all in the greatest >> and we're we're not in terrible shape.

We'll help her. And uh but it's it's you know that that's kind of the question at hand. You know she may get a job.

>> Yeah. >> So the hope the hope is not to be pulling out of that. That is the goal.

>> How old is she? But um >> here's >> she's 72. >> The reality is she can't live on 120,000. >> That's impossible. >> Um it'll it won't accumulate faster than

you're pulling off of it because there's a huge gap in >> not just the rent, but now she needs food. Every once in a while she's going to need to go somewhere, right? She's not going to just be cooped up in there. So, the reality, and I think you know this, the reality is $1,300 a a month isn't enough and $120,000

isn't enough. Uh so,

>> she's either going to have to go to work and fill those gaps. Maybe she, you know, works at Walmart, maybe she goes over to a grocery store. Um or you and

your siblings are filling those gaps for her. Those really are the It sounds like those are the options that are in front of you guys. >> I'd even push a I'd push a lot harder. I would exhaust everything, Jade, that I could on trying to find a cheaper living situation. The 1,700 The 1,700 a month,

I know in the grand scheme of things, is not crazy, but it is not a good price for her. So, I wonder if she finds another widow or, you know, whatever.

Let's find a Golden Girls community. if they're looking for a room a roommate, let's now if we split that cost or she jumps in and let we get that rent to say 800 a month or less or something like that, >> that frees up 500 bucks. Yeah, >> that's what you need to be looking at.

So, you know, we we can't forget some of the simple things like that to go put the word out. You know, she's living with her daughter, your sister, they're they're in that community. Let's ring the bell. Let's put the word out. my mom needs a roommate, you know, or if you're looking for a roommate, you know, and now all of a sudden we want to get to a place to where the $1,300 a month covers

the four walls. >> That would be our goal. >> Yeah. Because if I'm if I if I were you, that 120, I'd want that to sit somewhere

and stay there because your mother is going to continue to age and there's going to be a point at which maybe she needs some care, maybe there's something that needs to happen that's going to cost money and you guys are going to want >> whatever you can get your hands on, whether it's an inhome nurse to take care of her, that sort of thing. Um, and so for those reasons, that's why I would try to keep that 120 locked away somewhere. Uh, >> so that's that's part of my question.

What would be your advice as to where to lock that away? Would you say mutual funds? Would you say high interest savings? What would be what would be your advice concerning that 120? Is >> how's her health is?

>> Uh, you know, she's good. She's good.

She's good at this moment. you know, they they weren't the most consistent to go to the doctors and so she needs to do those things and figure that out >> because what you guys are saying is is totally true and uh we're trying to figure all those pieces and I'm thinking well with this 120 >> here's what I would do. >> Jade, I would uh I'll tell you what my take. I want to know what Jade thinks here. I'd defer to her opinion on this, but I would take 15 to 20

>> and I'd put that in a savings account and that's that's a pretty robust emergency fund for her.

>> Um and then I'd invest that 100. I I would get that working cuz if she lives 15 more years, um that's going to double

twice. >> I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't know if I would do Yeah, 15.

That might be a little high for her. Maybe I 10 and yeah, I'd invest the rest. So yeah, the 10 in a high yield, invest the rest in just good mutual funds, nothing nothing crazy. And that way it's there. I think that's exactly it, Ken. But I mean, this involves her getting to a place, her living expenses to where she lives off of uh the the uh

uh social security and then the grocery job or >> 72y old woman to do. >> Yeah. And so anything she makes above and beyond that is she's stacking.

>> I think that's actually doable. Now, I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm saying if I look for it, that's what I would do.

If that was my mom and that was her situation and I couldn't cover for her, then that's what I would be doing. >> Yeah. The living the living part is >> 1700. Yeah. Really, really important.

And just >> buckle down and do your due diligence till you find it because if you can, that's going to break down.

>> Let me ask you this. If you were 72 and your husband passed, would you want to live alone or would you want a roommate?

>> Uh, it's hard to say, but I could understand wanting some companionship.

you know, wanting a roommate, but I could also see >> all of a sudden being like, you know, Betty is >> Betty, you know, doesn't wipe off the counter when she's done. And Betty, you know, she >> blar Frank Sinatra too loud. You know what I mean? I feel like I >> I don't like to be alone, right?

So, like for me, I I think I'd have to get a roommate. I really do. I don't think I could do well alone. >> Yeah, it could.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It could be a nice companion, something to do. You guys >> Yeah. That's the for us that's the trajectory that we probably will be.

But this first she's been Yeah, that's part of it. 1,700 isn't the long-term goal for sure for the rent. It's the roommate thing at this moment. It feels like >> she needs that space and figuring out life and we'll cover the difference.

We'll make it work. Yeah.

What would it would it be, you know, okay, that's if you put 120 in there, 4% whatever, it's going to make three 400 bucks a month, something like that, you know. Or do you say no? >> Okay. You put it >> we >> for me per >> not the 4%. Remember we want you putting that we want you putting >> you're saying you're saying put 10 15 in high interest savings and put the rest in in the market and I get you on that.

That's that's why I was calling to see what would they say because for me I'm I tend to be a safe guy. I'd be like put 50 in a high interest savings and then put 50 in S&P. >> No, we need that 120 making as much money as it possibly can. Um >> Okay. >> And ex Exactly. But I think the the 10 to 15 that would cover you if Yeah.

something popped up. I don't know. Maybe she needs a vehicle of her own or something, you know, that that you must pay for. Does she have a vehicle, by the way?

>> She does. Yeah. Okay. She doesn't have any other debt other than everything that I've told you is that she has cars, a car that's paid for and all those things.

There's not any debt looming.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. And and yeah, so you got it. Help her with budgeting, >> you know, like get her if if she needs it and just surround her there and and get her situation where it's much more stable and controlled.

And then I love the idea, by the way, of 72-y old if they're healthy doing some kind of work >> for a variety of reasons. So u yeah, thanks for the call, Caleb. And check on the kids, make sure everything's okay there. Always love when we hear those calls.

You know what I mean?

Kids are playing kickball. Johnny got hit in the head. Right upside the head.

Remember those red kickballs? That could really leave a mark. >> All right. Favorite Golden Girl hit me.

>> Uh, the old lady that was cranky. I forget her name on the show. The little lady. >> Or uh Dorothy's mom.

>> Yeah. Yeah. She the sassy kind of cranky lady. >> Ma. >> Ma. Was that her name? >> I mean, what's her real name? I can't remember her name on the show. >> Yeah. I don't know. This will not surprise you. Never saw a full episode.

>> I'm clutching my pearls. Exactly.

>> Wow. >> Now, I'm not the demographic.

[Music]

Our

[Music]

scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 19:23. The fear of the Lord leads to life. Then one rests content untouched by trouble. And our quote of the day from Francis Chan, "Our greatest fear should not be a failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter." >> Got some depth depth on that one.

That'll make you think twice. Veronica joins us now in Texas. Veronica, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, thank you so much for getting me

on. I love your show and um, the last

two years I've really been following you guys and it has helped me so much. Um, I am a single mom. I'm 39 years old and I

have paid over $30,000 in debt in the last I would say four years. Um, which

has been amazing since I >> Way to go. Let's not just fly past that.

We're proud of you. Way to go.

>> Oh my goodness. It's been a journey, but I am here and um I have two questions.

Um, I have um a This is I have a stu I

have a vehicle, my first vehicle that I bought for my daughter when it when she graduated. I owe $3,400 on that. And um

I am in the process of trying to find a

home. Right now I live with family and I have about 7 months um to move on. So,

they've allowed me to stay here for two years, and within the two years, I have been able to get my $1,000 in my emergency fund. Um, and I also have

saved $14,000 for a home.

Um, but I still have debt. Um, I um

recently got my associates degree and so I have $6,000 in student loans and um I

do have another vehicle that's about $14,000 and I have one credit card that has no interest which I got my computer for school which I have 15 $1,500.

My question is I want to pay down this uh that first vehicle. It's $3,400.

um if I would pay it today, but that means that I would take away from my home savings. >> That's right. >> And um but I would save about $1,500 in

interest. And so >> I have been praying about this and it's

just been, you know, I'm going to try to call today. >> I'm glad you called. Uh listen, I I I'm glad you called. You said you paid off 30,000 in four years. That's no easy feat. Uh I didn't ask you what your income is. What is your income?

>> So, uh, uh, to date I make about $83,000.

Um, I am in the medical field and I'm also my little brother's caregiver.

Okay. >> So, he, um, he's, uh, been with me for

17 years. So, um, I do get paid from the

state for taking care of him.

>> So, how much do you take at home a month? What's a monthly snapshot for you with all those things combined?

So monthly, let's see, it's about 1650

>> 16 >> a month for my job. I mean at uh uh

every two weeks. So let's say >> Okay. Okay.

>> And then um $1,500. Let's add $1,500 to

that. So about $4,800, but his his

social security allowed him to uh give

me about $800 um for him to have like

room like for him to live if that makes sense. >> So 5600 together >> alto together.

>> Does that sound right? >> No, that um uh so he bring he has 9500

90 $950 a month. >> Okay. And then I bring home about $3,500

a month.

>> Okay. >> And the reason why I was able to pay off this inter this $30,000 is because I had

a job who paid all my bills and my um

for for three years. I was on a contract and um they uh paid for everything when they sent me out to to to Austin and um

I was able to my entire income went on paying off debt that I had with my ex.

>> Yours feels a little low. Are you are you putting anything in 401k or retirement right now? >> I am. Okay. >> I have um 401k >> I have a 401k. They take out um they

take out about $160

each period. >> Okay. So, there's money there.

>> And then I also >> tell me more. >> And then this is another this is another big question for me is uh 4700 for $470

goes to my tithe and offering.

>> Okay. Good. Good. Okay. So, now I have a better picture of what's going on. Um

here's the thing. You are correct in

your thought earlier that you said, "Hey, I I have 14,000 saved. I think I want to pay off this $3,400 car." Yes.

Uh because my advice to you would be first and foremost, you're not in a position to buy a house. And if you buy a house right now, you are going to create a level of stress that you've not understood before because it's going to create a lot of financial burden.

Because what I'm seeing right now, uh, based on your habits is you're not done borrowing money. And so what that tells me is if you buy a house right now and the AC goes out, you're going to get a credit card to fix it. If something happens with your back door and the lining comes off and you need somebody to come over and fix the door jam and you're going to take out the credit card with the repairman. So this is going to continue to snowball and then you're going to feel like a rat in the wheel not being able to make traction.

So, for those reasons, I would put the dream of buying a home just just table it for a while. It's it's not it's just deferred for a moment. It's not to say that it's going to happen.

>> So, that means I've got 14 really $13,000 that I can put towards debt right now. And what I'm doing, Ken, is just we're just walking her through the baby steps. >> And so, I keep $1,000 aside. That's baby

step one. That's just your rainy day fund in case something happens. But, yeah, let's pay off this car. And then on down the line now we've got another 10,000. Let's pay off the the credit card. That's 1,500. And let's keep paying this off. Let's knock out those student loans. So I'm at 6 7 8 9 10. I'm

almost there. I've spent all my money and I've I've paid off the car. I paid off the credit card and I've paid off my student loans. That is going to make you feel fantastic.

>> Am I wrong? >> Okay.

>> Yes. But seven months I I only have

seven months.

>> But that doesn't mean you have seven months until you have to move out. No one said you had to buy a house. It just means you have to find another place to live which in my mind says okay you're looking for an apartment >> and you can do that because the other thing you're going to do thing too as you're paying off this debt like we said because you can do that today.

>> The moment that you can muster up the strength to know that I'm right. You can do that today. And then the next thing that I would tell you to do is you need to pause this retirement, >> mama, because you >> need that $320 a month because like you said, you're trying to get a house, you're trying to get a place or, you know, a place to live on your own. So having that extra 320, not only is it

going to cause you to pay off this car faster, it's going to give you the money

and income you need to be able to go into a rental, go into an apartment, pay first and last month's rent, feel good about it. Does that make sense?

>> Yes. >> So right now, you're trying to do a lot of things at once. What I'm saying is, let's focus on one thing at a time, knock it out, get it done. Does that make sense?

>> Yes. No, it makes perfect sense. I just um I think I was just tired of renting

and giving my money away.

>> Totally understood. Well, hold on a second. >> That's why we're here. >> And I love that you shared that with us.

Uh I'm just going to jump in on this one little thought right there. And because that's the that's the mental shift you're going to have to make so that you actually do what Jade is telling you to do. You're not throwing your money away.

>> That has become a cultural

>> It's a lie. >> It's a lie. And it's a statement because some somebody out there created this idea that well when you're renting you're not building equity thus you are burning money. Well that's not the case because as Jade laid it out for you um

and what you've been doing up to this point and and renting further is not

throwing money away. It's actually giving you options for the future. But if you strap yourself with debt, you can you can say all you want to, well, I'm building equity. Well, no, you'll never see that equity if you if you go completely broke and you can't afford to keep your yourself above water with the house. So, renting is not wasting money

and throwing money away. Renting is putting me in a position for the future that I want. And it gives me actual freedom and options. Do you see it that way now?

>> Yeah. >> You got to believe that. Listen, cuz if you buy into the other argument, you're going to strap yourself with debt and it's not going to be fun.

>> Yeah. So hang in there. Work the plan.

Jake gave you great advice. It will work. This is the Ramsay Show.

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## 113. Money Magnifies What You Already Are | September 3, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:09:41 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. from the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. Well,

as you can tell, we got a brand new studio sponsor and we did a little bit of a new opener. Been working on our opener a little bit. The other one kind of sucked, so we we worked on it a little bit and we're pumped about uh this new studio sponsor, Fairwinds Credit Union. These guys are absolutely incredible. They've been a a partner for a while now. And you guys know if you listen to Dave Ramsey for about 30 seconds that I pretty much hate the big

banks, you know, like why you would do

business with Bank of America and get mistreated the way they mistreat all their customers is beyond me. Why you would do business with Fifth Third is beyond me. Why you would do business with Chase, I have no idea what's wrong with you if you're doing that. I don't get it. because they just they just treat you like crap and you give them your money to do that. Instead, we work

with small regional banks and we've been an endorse endorser of credit unions nationwide for off and on for 30 years since I started the show because I'm a huge fan of credit unions and the main reason is this. Credit unions work different. They're not a bank. They are

nonprofit and the weird thing is the people that are the customers are the members actually are the owners. Now, you don't get to go in there and say, "I want that desk." It's not yours. Okay? You're not that kind of an owner. But you're a stockholder, so to speak, in a nonprofit. Now, what that means mathematically is if there is a profit made, and there has to be for them to stay open, they turn it back to customer

services, reduced interest rates on loans, increased interest rates on savings accounts, and other free things like cool free things they do for Ramsey people all the time at Fairwinds. So, I've been a big fan of of credit unions for a long time. When Fair Winds came along, we started working with them about a year ago and they're absolutely incredible. I love credit unions. You

need to do business with a financial institution that actually cares about you and this is why we endorse Fair Winds and now they've stepped up their partnership and they are our new studio sponsor here for the Ramsey Show.

They've been in business for over 75 years. They served hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. Uh they partner with more than 5,000 credit union locations. other credit unions around the country in a partnership so you can bank wherever you live. So it's totally click and mortar. 33,000 feefree ATMs.

Deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to 250,000. So you got the same level of insurance that you would with a stupid bank. And they've created a combined checking. This is the important part.

And high yield savings account bundle for Ramsey fans. The high yield savings accounts competitive with national digital banks, built for people who want to stay out of debt and uh good place to park and uh get that old emergency fund kicking, right? No credit traps. It's built to align with the baby steps.

Interest rate isn't some bait and switch thing. It's designed to support Ramsey fans as you get your emergency fund and you save with intention.

The new Ramsay debit card with Fair

Winds. And uh this is cool cuz right on

the front of the card, it says dead as normal. Be weird. So as soon as you're checking out, you're going to get a response from the waiter. You're like, "What?" You're going to get a response from the girl at Target trying to sell you a credit card. She's going to be saying, "What? I can't do it. I got this." That's, you know, debt's normal.

I don't want to be normal. I'm weird. Look at my card. Is it here? Can Can I show you my card? Can I show you my card? You know, I mean, it just changes everything, right? Uh it's not a payment method. It's a daily reminder that you're working the baby steps and that you're not going to go in debt. And it is a Ramsey debit card at Fairwinds. So,

you can see why these guys are not typical. They're aligned with us. We're excited for you to have them check to for for you to check them out. And you

guys haven't been around us for a while because we've added millions of people in the past six months or a year. You guys don't know how hard we are on endorsements. We don't endorse everything.

We endorse stuff we believe in. And uh

I've got a rule. I started the rule. I I endorsed a couple things in my early days of talk radio cuz I was broke and desperate that I wished I wouldn't. And I was ashamed.

And one of my friends came up and said, "Would you do that?" And I said, "No, John. I wouldn't do that. >> You're my friend." But I did put it on the radio. Well, that's just that's just lying.

That's just insincere. That's hypocritical. So, I I got it so embarrassed. I said, "I'm never doing it again." And our rule for our sales team has always been no endorsements of any kind for any of our Ramsey personalities unless we're willing to send our mama there, our best friend there.

I tell you to go over there? And if not, if we can't feel that good about it, we don't need the money. We got plenty of money. We're stacking money around here.

It's not a problem. Okay? Profits are not an issue at Ramsey. All right. So, we don't need the money. So, we're very, very selective and very careful. Can you imagine how hard we are to work with if you're in the banking sector?

I mean, just saying it pisses me off, right? And so, can you imagine the poor people at Fairwinds what they have been through? And they're wonderful people, but they they kept going, "Well, you don't want our money?" "No, we we're going we're going to just let this we're going to make sure everything's okay first." And you know what? They they've been wonderful.

They're incredible folks. They do have a great track record and they got great hearts. We've gotten to know the executive team there. They do a great job.

And so we're really excited.

Fairwinds.org/ramsey.

That's where you go. Fairwinds.org.

Nonprofit.org.

That's f aws.org/ramsey.

And I'm super pumped that we now have a dead as normal be weird Ramsay debit card out there in the wild. This is cool, John. >> It's It's very cool. It's going to be the new um It's like the alternative to the black card, right? That that was like, ooh, now when somebody whips out the uh be weird card. >> Yeah. It's like the polar opposite end.

Exactly. >> Yeah. Like I didn't pay $75,000 for this. That's right. I didn't pay $7,500 for this. >> And how cool would it be? How cool would it be if there was a movement across the country when people put their their

Ramsay debit card, their debt is normal

be weird debit card.

>> I'm getting out of debt is what this says. >> But they also knew, oh, these are the most generous folks out there. They're going to tip us well, too. We know these we know these men and women. They're a different character. >> You know what? We need to just to make that an assignment. How cool would that be? Do not get a Ramsey debit card if

you cheap out on waiters. We don't want you. >> No. If you're not going to load up the waiter with your Ramsay debit card, load them up, baby.

The load up who anybody you got. You got to tip heavy heavy if you got this. So, there is a tax on this thing. >> There's a tax, but it's a generosity tax.

And it's a good muscle. I like this. This is awesome. >> I like it.

John, you just invented something right here on the air. >> Well, it's pretty scary. >> There we go. There we go.

>> Pretty scary. >> I get one a year. This is Good.

>> But I I love the idea of waiters walking

back to the back to run the card and then going, "Haha," like showing it to their to the other staff and being like, "I got one >> and they know they're about to get tipped really well." >> I like that. I like that a lot. That's very good. >> All right. So, Fair Winds Credit Union

Studios, that's us now. That's what we're broadcasting from. We got it up in here. It's it's it's on the wall, isn't it? Somewhere. Is it on the wall? It's right there on the wall. There it is. Right there. Okay. And so that reminds you guys right there that we're here.

And uh we're going to be saying this over and over and over and over. I hope forever. And I hope you guys start getting that Ramsey debit card at Fairwinds and you get those high yield savings accounts for your emergency fund at Fairwinds and you get the bundle and the free checking and all that stuff at Fairwinds cuz you're going to have a great response from them. They they love Ramsey people.

They have been taking care of our folks really well for the last year. That's why we did this much increased footprint with them.

card according to Dr. John Deloney. I like it. I like it. Hey, >> this is how you change culture. >> It's a good adjustment. It's a good adjustment. I like Right. Right. Right there. Live. Call an Audible.

Fairwindscreditun.org/ [Music] Ramsey.

[Music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Music]

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Maria is in St. Louis.

Hi, Maria. How are you? Hi Dave. Good afternoon. I'm great. Thank you. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> That is a great response. I just wanted to say thank you so much for everything that you do. I'm a huge fan of your podcast, YouTube channel, show, everything. >> Very honored to be on today. Thank you.

>> My question is, >> I have about $100,000 in my 401k.

I'm 30 years old and I've been wanting to open up a wedding venue out here in

Defiance, Missouri, which is beautiful kind of wine country. Um, I'm wondering

if I should take from my 401k and put some type of equity into this

wedding venue dream that I have, but of course I do have some lingering debts

and just wanted to get your opinion on do I take from my 401k or kind of where do I even begin with this? Yeah.

>> So, uh, what do you do for a living now?

>> I am in supply chain for a defense contractor. So, you're making 100K.

>> Um, I have a second job. I work at a bar on the weekends, so I do serve. So, I'm probably about 115.

>> Okay. All right. But your supply chain is 100K.

>> 105. >> 105. Yeah. Okay. All right. And, um,

good for you. >> Thank you. >> And the, uh, how how much debt did you say you have?

So, we just bought a house. Me and my boyfriend bought a house last November um for $450.

>> Mhm. >> We have the mortgage. We both have car payments. >> What do you owe on your car?

>> I owe 24,000 and I paid 31

um to the bank. So, I'm a little upset

about the car.

>> You owe 24,000. What other debt do you have? I owe student loans 15,000.

>> Okay.

All right. And um well, a couple things come to mind immediately. One is if you're going to run a wedding chapel, you should act like you believe in your product and you should be married.

>> Correct. We Hey, we looked at rings. We

have a ring picked out. >> Yeah. Okay. Just just before we get going, >> just kind of basic stuff.

I've never heard of a I've never heard the phrase that's a great Missouri wine. What kind of wine do they have in Missouri >> in defiance? Yeah, >> you're not wrong. So defi, it's this they have a bunch of wineries.

It's it's the big like everyone. >> But it's kind of a they're just kind of a little resort area there and it's it's beautiful. >> Okay. It's a pretty area and an excuse to drink some wine.

Yeah.

>> Or have a wedding. Yeah. >> Or have a wedding or both. Yeah. Okay.

So, but there's no existing venue that you're trying to purchase. She would build this. >> I would build this so I would have to buy the land. I would of course have, you know, I everything it would be starting from scratch. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Um, well, number

one, I I would tell you uh regardless of what what business idea you propose, I would have you get out of debt before you try it. Okay. And number two, we coach about 10,000 small businesses through our Entree Leadership brand. I do an Entree Leadership podcast. It's one of the top podcasts in the small business space. And um we teach them to

not grow their business with that.

>> Okay? >> To grow it slowly. So not going to have you borrow on your 401k. And of course, you know, we're not going to tell you to cash out a 401k and take a 10% penalty plus your tax rate of 30%. Dave, I'm going to borrow money at 40% interest to open a wedding venue. No, you're not.

>> And so we're not doing that either. So that kind of takes those those kind things kind of I start to be a dream killer, but I'm not a dream killer. What I am is a nightmare killer. I want to set you up to win >> right >> at your dream, not to get to the end of your dream and be one of the 80% of small businesses that fail. And that number is actually true.

>> So scary. >> What causes the 80%? The number one

cause of small business failure is called cash flow problems. Now, cash flow problems mean I'm short on money.

Hello. And that usually means I'm in debt and I didn't pay my taxes properly.

>> Mhm. and the IRS is chasing me down. So, the taxes thing you can work on with quarterly estimates and do your accounting properly. It's not the end of the world. And just not just just be sophisticated enough to run your business properly. The debt thing uh is

you you've got to if nobody wants to get married, the banker doesn't care,

>> right? >> If 73 people get married that day, the banker doesn't care. The banker just doesn't care. Yeah. >> It's a freaking banker. And they will foreclose on your little wedding chapel and turn it into a dog park. I mean, in a heartbeat, they'll do that.

>> You know that's true. That's why you're laughing. >> Oh, I Yes. Yes. Exactly.

>> And so, what I want to do is if I'm going to run a business, and I do run one, and we have 14 profit centers, meaning 14 mini businesses inside of the Ramsey Solutions total P&L. So, I run 14 businesses of of sorts. They're all interconnected, but uh I run all of those as the CEO of this place and I've grown it from a card table in my living room.

what we're doing. >> Well, wineries do offer weddings, of

course, but there but there is no wedding true wedding venue. They're more just wineries. >> What's the biggest nicest winery? Put that name in your head. Don't say it out loud.

Okay. >> Okay. >> After John's comment for sure. Okay. But >> yeah, not a Missouri fan. Okay. Go on.

>> We like Missouri. We just never associated it with Napa. And so, um, the, uh, uh, so go over and talk to them. >> Mhm. >> About a joint venture and let them build it. >> Wow. Okay. I didn't even think about that. >> They'll put up the money. They suck at wedding. They're good at wine. I'm excellent at weddings and wedding venues. You can increase your visit. You can increase your visits to the winery.

We'll put it right here on property and uh we'll JV it and you guys own the building. You own the property and I run it for a percentage of profits for you.

>> And let's lay out a model and let's start that puppy uh where you do it at

nights and weekends >> and maybe some days off from your logistics. Don't quit yet. And let's get 50 $60,000 income $80,000 of income coming into your pocket. Mhm.

>> before you quit your job.

>> Okay. >> We always say pull the boat up close to the dock before you so you can step in

rather than make the leap. People that make leaps get wet.

So get your income from the wedding venue up and let's figure out a way to do this where you it you don't have to burden carry the burden of all the downside. And for that matter, these people could start the thing in a really nice high-end tent.

[Laughter] >> Yeah, you're not wrong. >> You could. >> Yeah. >> And then let's prove let's concept proof, right? Let's get social proof for the concept and they got $25,000 or or $50,000 in the tent before we go build $100,000 building or $200,000 building.

And we prove out that we're both going to make bank on this. You're going to get a lot more customers for the winery. You're also going to make money on the weddings cuz I'm not taking 100% of the profits. You got invested in this too.

So, we're doing this together. And do a JV on it and let's prove it out and go

ahead and put in the agreement that someday you can buy them out and you can move it off site.

>> Okay. So, almost like a not not a franchise, but basically just taking >> No, more like an option to purchase.

>> Okay. >> To go to to go with it later. Because if it goes gang busters later or if they ever went broke, you could own it. you went on the real estate, but you'd own the idea, >> right? >> And so, uh, yeah, let let's just kind of e I'm trying to ease into this and limit my risk rather than just take this leap off a cliff and go, I sure to god hope that waters deep.

>> I know it the upfront the upfront cost

of the wedding venue is what is lingering question. Yeah.

>> And you can't Yeah, let's let's start it um >> Yeah, let's start it with a camping trip and go from there. I mean, I think it I got to tell you, I think the um tying it

to the winery could really help the wedding chapel >> and it for sure will help the winery.

>> Oh, yeah. I mean, you could start at the winery and then, you know, move on over to the venue. >> You go ahead and option the piece of ground next door and buy it out. Buy the ground first with some of your profits.

Later, build the chapel. When you get it built, I exercise your option on the business. Move it next door.

>> Okay. So, what if worst case scenario, what if these guys are like, "No, we do perfectly fine. We're not >> Go to go to the other one. >> Go to the next one. >> You just missed out. Your competition is now going to have a wedding venue, and you should have done it. You screwed up.

>> Next one." >> And then get on Amazon and order an Elvis costume and pay some high school

kid to stand there next to you.

>> I'll go run my vows in defiance country.

>> A spinner sign. That's right. >> A spinner sign. >> That's right. >> What are you, Vegas? I'm just trying to think of this is up and coming wine country Dave. >> Yeah, Elvis is known for that. >> Well, that's I'm just saying I don't People get Elvis weddings

>> in Vegas. >> I'm on to I'm just telling you >> you're you just started another trend today. >> I'm starting another trend.

[Music]

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Dan's in Seattle. Hi, Dan. How are you?

>> I'm doing good, Dave. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, so my question for you today is I'm

on baby step two and I have about $80,000 in debt. Now, most of my debt is

through one bank, and they're offering me settlements at about 35 cents on the dollar, but I also owe $32,000

uh to the Department of Treasury, and they just sent me an intent to initiate wage garnishment. >> The IRS? Which one?

>> No, it's through uh the Department of Treasury. >> For what?

>> So, I was in the military. I was in the Navy for about 5 years and I got

discharged early uh for failing a drug test. And so because of that, they're asking for my reinlistment bonus that I

had signed a contract for back.

>> Okay. So you got a reinlistment bonus and how many months later did you fail the drug test?

>> Uh it was two years later.

>> Two years later.

>> Okay. Okay. And the reinlistment was for how long?

>> Yeah, it was a six-year contract.

>> Okay. So, you were onethird of the way through. So, what was your bonus when you reinlisted?

>> Uh, it was the money they're asking for back. It was around 32,000.

>> So, they don't prorrate it at all. They want the whole thing. Huh.

>> They want the amount that they had already paid out to me. That wasn't the full amount, but that was what I had received up until the point that I got >> Oh, they were paying it out to you over the six-year period.

>> Correct. >> So, it is the Pratta amount. Okay. So, overall, had you been there, you would have got 90 something thousand had you been there the whole time?

>> Uh, roughly. Yeah. A little less than that, I think. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. H

All right. Have you tried to negotiate a payment plan with them? cuz I'm sure they expect someone that failed a drug test to have $32,000 laying around.

>> Um I have not. So my plan was because I

know you normally say uh work smallest to largest. >> Yeah. But not when not when you're dealing with the US freaking government with the IRS or the US Department of Treasury. They have the ability to come take stuff from you that other people don't.

So yeah, what I would do is get on the phone with them and figure out if they can if you can work a payment plan with them and that will use up some of the money you're using to get out of debt on the other side. But it also keeps them from coming and taking your wages, which they can do in a heartbeat. They don't even have to go to court. They just got to send a notice. It's like the IRS.

They're unbelievably powerful,

right? >> So yeah, I you need to get that thing settled to create a sustainable situation so you can work your way through the rest of it.

Okay. >> So, we need to get a payment plan with them. They'll work a payment plan with you because I don't think they think they're going to get their money,

>> right? >> I mean, if they let a hundred people go in this exact same situation due to failing a drug test, a hundred of them don't have the money.

Okay. None of you guys are sitting around on 32,000 bucks when this happens to you, right? I mean, other your other friends in the military that that happened to, right?

Yes, sir. It's >> not like you're sitting around, you know, on piles of money, you know, it just doesn't it doesn't work that way.

So, yeah, I um yeah, I'd work a payment plan with them and then with what I've got left. So, I would imagine they'll settle. What are you making now? What do you make?

>> Uh 85,000 a year before tax.

>> Good. What do you do? What do you do now? >> I am a data center engineer.

>> Great. Excellent. And so keep learning and keep growing and keep that income increasing and let's get it all cleared off as fast as possible. What I would do is call them and say this. Hey,

I got let go from the military for a drug test. I have no money.

You really can't get anything, but I would love to start a payment plan to get this paid back. What's the least you would put me on? And put it on the smallest payment possible for now. That

gives you more room to work on the other stuff. And when the other stuff's gone, then go back and pay them off completely early.

So, you know, I don't want you to offer them a thousand and they would have taken 500 a month for right now,

>> right? >> I want them to give you a number. And no matter what they say, practice this with me, Dan. Go. I want you to gasp.

No matter what they say, act like you about passed out and go, "You're kidding.

Oh my. Oh no. Oh my gosh. Oh. Can you do

any better?

And let them negotiate with themselves for a minute. Okay.

You understand the technique?

>> I I do. >> It works.

Especially when you're dealing with a government employee on the other end.

>> And D. Hey, Dan.

Dan, >> you still there, man? Listen to me. This will not go away.

Right. >> All right. And I know the temptation will be like a some buddy of yours is going to have a cool Jeep that he's jacked up. He's going to give it to you at a quote unquote great deal. And someone's going to ask you to get in on Bitcoin or whatever the thing's coming.

None of this is going to go away. So the faster you figure out how to get this cleared up, I would go scorch Earth on my living arrangements until I got the government out of my life. >> Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

>> Okay. >> They are they are unwavering. It's not going to go away. >> Yeah. They're they're the hardest of all creditors to deal with, >> right? >> Cuz they're their own boss. They don't They answer to nobody.

>> Yeah. They don't have to check with a judge.

It's crazy, >> right? >> It's like student loans. They just issue the garnishment. It's like the IRS. They just issue the garnishment. They don't have to go through due process. It's completely unconstitutional, but it doesn't matter. They do it anyway. So, you know, due process is in the Constitution. Not when it comes to government debt. Nope. They just come take it and then they then they go, "Oh, you mean we weren't supposed to do that?

We'll get it back then." Doesn't work. No, it's a pain in the butt. I want to scare you cuz I want to scare you in knocking this out as fast as you possibly can. But in the meantime, put it on the smallest possible payment so you got a sustainable situation. And then work like a crazy man, live scorched earth.

Stay off the dad gum drugs and attack this stuff, man. And get it out of your life. Get rid of it so it doesn't come back. And um yeah, for sure you've got a great career in front of you.

Don't screw it up. Bust, bust, bust, bust. Get those certifications. Data analyst, man.

In an AI world, you are king. You're going to be king of the heap because you're going to be the one telling AI what to do if you learn how to do your craft. Believe me, I got them in this building and I pay them well. So you and they're they're the future.

So they are the future.

>> Yeah, they uh Yeah, that's it. But that's you said AI. But yeah, it that do

it, man. You can do it. Don John's right though. Don't let don't let up until they're out of your life. Cuz this is not going away. And if you look up 5

years from now and you still got this hanging around because you haven't dealt with it, you hope John's voice is ringing in your ear. It's not going

away.

People keep um and this is a little bit different situation, but man, I don't know what it's going to take for folks to stop getting into business arrangements with the government. It just doesn't end. I mean, it doesn't end well because they answer to nobody. They just they're just going to come take your check.

They're if you're going to if you get into the student loan world, you are making a deal with the government. >> Yeah. >> If you don't pay your taxes, >> you don't pay your taxes, you're making a deal with the government. And it's just it's frustrating.

But, man, they win 100% of the time. And

the number >> they got Vegas beat on that. >> Oh, and the number of Well, at least Vegas >> Vegas just wins most of the time. >> Most of the time. That's right. And the number of folks, the students I worked with over the years that just think it's going to go away. It just doesn't. It just stuff has a bigger >> high rate of resurrection. >> That's right, man. >> It will come back. >> Comes back to life. Zombie debt just keeps coming back to life.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

Thanks for being with us. Ryan is in Detroit, Michigan. Hi Ryan. How are you?

>> Good. How are you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. So, I'm I've been following your your baby steps and they've been working out very well for me. Um I'm active duty military and I'm on baby step six. My wife and I are on on baby step six and we're just wondering with us moving every four to five years,

would it be wise to put money into the house to pay down the mortgage or to put the money aside in an in a savings or

investment account? >> Well, when you move, you're going to sell the house and they're going to give you a check.

>> Yes. So, put it into the mortgage

and then someday there won't be a mortgage and when you sell the house they're going to give you a check and when you buy the house you're going to give them a check. Someday there'll be no mortgage and you move from no mortgage to no mortgage.

>> All right, cool deal. >> Yeah, for savings plan. Now, a couple of guidelines. Which branch are you in?

>> Uh, Coast Cre. >> Okay. Thank you for your service, by the way. Yeah. So, you're not moving but every five years or so, right?

>> Yeah. Uh we we move every every four we can possibly extend to five.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz a a lot of the army guys are every two. So uh Navy as well. So uh

especially earlier in their career. Um we work with the military a lot. Thank you again. Uh but anyway the um the

thing to be sure of is it's not always

in your case it's more likely but it's not always a good idea to buy.

>> Yeah. So, what you want to be sure of is during your time in the market, is the

property going to increase enough in value to bother to own it.

>> Mhm. >> So, if you're only there two years and you're in a flat real estate market, you would not buy. You would rent.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. You're better off. You're gonna lose money. >> And if you're in a flat real estate market, you can't sell it when you get ready to leave. Now, your postings are

largely around non military base situations. You're in more of a civilian setting, right?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Like you're not going into one of these huge uh forts or uh or uh you know

u whatever these huge military communities where lots of people have bought a house and now they got them on the market because they move every two years. You don't have that issue. You're dealing with more direct consumers that are non-military. So that's going to help you make money on the resale because the market doesn't get gluted.

It doesn't get full.

>> And so yeah, >> you know, so for instance, my my buddies in the Navy that are in San Diego, they do real well on a house, right?

>> But if you move out in the middle of a cornfield in Kansas and there's nobody there but other military people, you're going to lose your butt on the house.

>> Yeah. >> So just be careful with that kind of stuff. Now again, your situation because unique to the Coast Guard is going to be very different because obviously it's res residing mainly around the coast.

And so duh. And um so yeah, that that

puts you in a different thing. And so I I think in most cases it's not going to apply to you. You're going to make money. So buying is going to be a good idea. So the answer to your question just stands. Get it paid off as fast as possible. Be sure when you buy next time you pay cash and pay it off as if you don't pay it off as soon as possible.

and every time just move your equity from place to place to place and then when you someday land and retire and you land in the place you're going to stay in, you've got a paid for house.

>> Yeah. Part of me Dave would be so tempted to rent in the least

in the place where like had the bare minimum where we could live like this is good for us for right now. Um my friends in the military always say, "Yeah, but there's a psychological component. You get moved every few years. It's important to have tent stakes." And I get that. But there's a balance, right?

>> You don't need the Taj Mahal, but you really don't want to be camping either.

>> Yeah. Yeah. There's there's a balance. >> It's hard.

It's hard on mama. >> Yeah. >> Hard on the spouses, kids. They need to have a home.

>> Yeah. >> And you're doing this for 20 years. So, you're not better ones. Yeah.

You're just in the military. So, >> uh they do live intense. But yeah, but the uh >> the thought of putting five different houses on the market over the course of 20 years drive me crazy. >> If you're in if you're a corporate gypsy, you got the same thing, though.

>> Yeah, it's true. True. If you're in a corporate setting and they move you every ever every so often and you're you're bouncing city to city going up the ladder in corporate America.

>> You got the same exact thing. But you got to be able to sell the house >> cuz the market you're in. You can't be be buying in a dead butt market. Some kind of market where there's not any activity because it's not going to increase in value and then you got 273 days on the market, >> right?

>> Nine months you're looking at this stupid thing >> and y'all are going to end up renting somewhere else. >> Yeah. Yep. Because you can't get your house.

>> You can't get in. You're going to move twice in those. So it just becomes messy.

It's just being careful about that thing not completely owning you again. Right.

>> Exactly. >> I get it. But man, that's tough. That's tough. >> But it also, you know, you can't apply

the tick tock version of culture.

Everybody ought to buy real estate. No, not really. >> Yeah. >> Not really. There's certain times you don't. It's not a good idea. Real estate's not good when you're playing short game. Short game real estate's stupid. Yeah. >> So, uh, it it gets you caught. It's a problem. Devon is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Devin. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. How are you today?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, I am a pastor and I wanted to pick your brain on a possible career move.

Uh, I make 40,000 a year. Uh, and I was thinking about moving into a different career either in plumbing or home remodel. and uh I just I just had some concerns about where we're at financially and wanted to see how you would go about doing that.

>> I mean, plumbing is basically the same job as a pastor is, isn't it?

>> I guess in one area of thinking.

>> Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Wow. That's an interesting move. So, you just burn out on pastoring or what? >> Yeah. My wife and I, we uh coming out of college, we're both 28 years old and we had several jobs right after the other that were all just really hard and uh you know the old expression, sheep bite.

So, um that's just uh we we had some hard times and so spiritually we're needing to take a step back and I like working with my hands and one day I want to own my own business and so those were the areas I was thinking of.

>> Yeah.

Well, they do and that's a shame but they do. You're right. Um,

okay. Well, the the the question is, how can you make the conversion without it being some kind of a leap? Conversion is not the right word. How can you make the transition without it being some kind of a leap? Yeah. Poor choice. Yeah. But the

uh uh uh so I mean like I don't want you

to go make nothing to get to be a plumber. Let's start as an intern or

doing stuff on the weekends or whatever to learn to do that. I don't want you to start from ground zero with no jobs as home remodel. Have you done home remodeling? >> Uh, no, sir. I would be starting from from nothing. >> Okay. All right. Uh, do you know someone in the business?

>> Uh, I I have I have some ideas of where I could I could find some people. >> I want you to edge in and go learn the business somewhere before you just open a business.

>> Yes, sir. I I was I was thinking of uh

specifically with like plumbing or remodeling starting as you know just working with someone else first uh and then moving that direction. >> So if you had someone that hired you to that you don't know anything about remodeling and you're going to go to work for them, do you have you have any idea what they would pay you?

>> Uh no sir, in our area in Oklahoma City, I mean I'm assuming that you know making $40,000 a year it it >> you could probably make that. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Exactly. So I >> make that shoveling drywall. Yeah.

Exactly. So, I I wasn't as concerned about that. Uh my wife and I are we just finished baby step two.

>> So, as long as you're making the same money as you're making now and you're making it instantaneously, there's no change to your family other than you shifted what you do every day.

>> Yes. I I I think so. Mathematically, if you make 40,000 as a plumber working for a plumber or you make 40,000 working for a home remodel person and you make 40,000 now, you just changed jobs mathematically.

>> Okay. >> Doesn't affect it at all. Agreed.

>> I I agree. I just wanted to make sure that that was actually I wasn't just >> fooling myself and you know having rose colored glasses about >> rosecolored glasses would be I don't know anything about remodeling and I just bought a hammer and I opened a remodeling company.

>> That's fair. >> That would be rosecolored glasses. That would be a fool. But um but I talk to

those sometimes but the uh um but you're not it. And so no, you know, so I want you to if you can make the same money and make your change and then begin to learn a craft on in an effort to say 5

years from now I'm going to make the move into my own space, then I'm fine with that. And there's nothing to say you can't serve in the church for the rest of your life. Most of us do. And uh

sometimes those ministries are as effective as staff.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dr. John

Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

Sarah is in Baton Rouge. Hi Sarah, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm good, thank you. Better than I deserve, right? Yeah. Amen. How can we help? >> Um, so I am a divorced single mom of two

boys. I am their primary caregiver. And,

um, one day I would like to remarry, but I am slated to inherit at least like $5

million of today's value. Hopefully, I

won't inherit it for another 20 years.

Um, but I just wanted to know y'all's thoughts on a prenup if that was something that would be good for my situation or I wanted to know what y'all thought about that. >> In your situation, I do recommend it.

>> Full disclosure, when I first started the show, I said never get a prenup. If you like stuff more than the person, don't get married. Marriage is hard enough, right? >> That was kind of my stance. But then after doing about I don't know two decades of financial coaching and crisis counseling where I found a bunch of weirdos involved I um I changed my

stance on prenups and the reason I changed it was what I discovered in actual reality out here walking around in the wild is that where there is a dramatic amount of money difference

or just a dramatic amount of money >> right >> the prenup not only helps the actual married couple, but more importantly, it helps the weirdos in their family.

>> I didn't think about that. >> And so, like, you marry a beautiful, wonderful man and cousin Eddie shows up and wants to open a pizza parlor with your money, >> like a day after the honeymoon, >> right? >> That's the crap that happens. And then your beautiful, wonderful man just goes, "Cousin Eddie, I got prenup. I can't say nothing." and you just look at cousin Eddie and go you can have a biscuit

>> and then we're going to send you on your way and you know that you can just you can deal because the weirdos in one ring or two rings or three rings out sometimes it's the parents sometimes it's the kids sometimes it's cousin Eddie I don't know who it is but the weirdos were the and then what happens is they drive a wedge between you and your spouse >> right relation that's what I didn't want to happen >> and the prenup is not to protect you from this wonderful man you meet, he's probably okay.

>> That's the goal. >> Yeah, but I mean that really you probably got pretty good taste, right?

And so that he's probably not the problem. It might be, but you know, but the 5 million versus he's got a normal net worth of, you know, 4 500,000 or nothing or whatever and he's just a good dude that works hard and saves his money and pays his bills and whatever and, you know, and you guys love Jesus and you're going to church and life is good, right?

Everything's good. So, y'all y'all will be fine, but this just keeps everybody

clear. But it you shouldn't do that on

small amounts of money. Like, I had one lady call up and say her boyfriend wanted a prenup for his uh 1967

Mustang.

And I'm like, "Hey, don't marry this guy. He likes cars more than he likes you. >> A stupid car? Really?

>> No. Oh, that's that's just that that is that's planning your divorce right there. That's different. >> All right, Sarah, I want to ask Dave a question on your behalf. Okay, >> great. >> Dave, if you're Sarah and you somebody

sets you up and you roll your eyes like I'll go and you have a great time, you go out again and you go out again, when would you sit down and say, "Hey, I got

$5 million in an account." Would that be something you wait till you're engaged to talk about? Would that be something cuz my >> they would not get engaged >> before they knew before? >> No, way before that. But I mean at the same time you would talk about anything in your account like you know how let's

start talking about money. Well, you don't do that on the first date. That'd be weird, >> you know. But I mean once you start talking about using language in your sentences about spending a lot, >> building a future together. >> Building a future together then you start going well that includes let's talk about your crazy mother.

>> Yeah. Let's talk about your uh let's talk about, you know, what do you feel about debt? I can't stand debt. I did that Dave Ramsey thing. You know, some people do that on the first date. That's strange. But um but the uh uh uh but

yeah, that uh I think it's strange. But the the Yeah, I I think as you're as you're getting serious in the relationship, you start talking about the important things. I want to know exactly where you stand on religion, on money, on in-laws, on kids. They're

going to know about your kids immediately. Uh, and you don't have the five million right now anyway. It's off in the future somewhere.

>> So, >> yes, sir. >> And hypothetically, something could go sideways and you didn't even get it.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. It's, you know, I definitely try to be a good steward of the money that I'm blessed with and I know that this is not money that I've earned, so I don't expect it.

>> Yeah. I count on it.

>> I I just I you know, and I would just say it has nothing to do with you. I've just gotten good counsel that says all the people in our lives are it gives us a boundary with them if we have this done. Yeah. I I think when you start talking about the important things in life, the money would be on the list.

>> Yeah. >> Not because money is important, but because what it represents. >> Yeah. >> And I don't know. What do you think? You're the PhD in counseling. When should you bring it up? No, >> I think you're right. I I

think I which this is me personally. I think I would always be haunted by

did that accelerate our relationship?

Did that get you more excited to marry me? Which for myself is is my own red

flag. It would be a me red flag, not a them red flag. But um >> yeah, >> I don't know. There's something like I'm a romantic at heart and there's something cool about my wife getting married and her being like, "Oh, by the way, when I told you we were well off, like we're here's here's the number." That sounds awesome.

That's not reality, right? >> No, that's some kind of book you know fiction book. Yeah. >> Exactly.

So, um, yeah, I think you have to put on the table and I think you have to get through the initial discomfort of maybe him thinking, "Oh, I wanted to be the macho bread winner and suddenly I'm marrying somebody who's a multi-millionaire." Or vice versa, you putting the discomfort on the table. I'm I'm nervous to say this out loud because I'm I'm afraid you're going to like me more just cuz I've got this inherited wealth >> or it's just going to cause weirdness. >> Yeah. It's just going to cause weirdness.

Yeah. But >> money does that. But it all relationships have to get through weirdness and awkwardness and dis an uncomfortable conversation. So it's just another one in a long list of uncomfortable conversations anybody getting together is going to have to have.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. It's always going on. >> That's right. >> Yeah. So Sarah, you know, it's interesting. I tell people when we're just talking about money in general that wealth magnifies everything, the good and the bad.

So like if someone has a temper and they become wealthy, they become a bully.

>> Crazy. >> If someone is compassionate and generous and they become wealthy, they become what we call a philanthropist and they're constantly known for their generosity.

>> That becomes their personal brand, you know. And so if crazy is in your family,

>> and all of us have crazy in our family.

>> If you don't think you have crazy in your family, it's you. Yeah. So, I mean, everybody's got crazy. So, crazy in your family is magnified. And so, that's what I'm looking at with this 5 million. It's going to magnify everything. It's going to magnify the awkwardness that John is talking about in the dating relationship. >> It will. And you know what? You just said something important. I would actually relationally lead with here's who I am. I'm a person who tips like crazy. I'm a person who gives to my church or to charitable organizations.

That's who I am. I would lead with the identity part early on in a relationship as we get to know each other. Yeah, >> I'm a person who doesn't borrow money >> that way. That's right.

I'm a person that borrow money. >> I believe in saving money. I believe in living on a plan. >> That's right.

And then >> I plan my budget. I plan my time. >> How much money I got? Yeah.

I like >> then later on and Oh, by the way, my my mom and dad are rich. Yeah. They left me a bunch of money when they died. So there you go.

That's way down the list, though.

[Music]

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not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Abigail in Indiana. Abigail writes, "My husband passed away very recently. I'm sorry. I

have a problem with family and friends who have started asking for personal items that belong to him. Some of the requests are for sentimental reasons, but there are also requests for things that are of monetary value. I'm still grieving and not ready to make these decisions right now. What is the morally right thing to do?

>> I'm still grieving and I'm not ready to make these decisions right now. >> That's right. >> No.

>> Or I'm not doing anything. I'm not giving away anything for nine months.

And um I'll get back to you.

>> Yeah. I'm I'm I tell you what, I'm keeping a little list and I'll put you on down the list, but right now I'm just crying.

You have no moral obligation none >> whatsoever. >> Zero >> to start handing out stuff.

>> Um especially um it just feels like false circling

does feel gross >> like Yeah. And everyone grandma's China.

>> Yeah. Oh brother. It's like a bad Hallmark movie. Um,

>> and by the way, if if the if somebody says, "Oh, I was really hoping to get that though," then they've crossed their name off the list. >> The friend that says, "Hey, we used to go hunting together and he had this awesome rifle. >> Can I buy it? >> I would love to buy it from you. Um, or

>> when you're ready." >> Yeah. Yeah. And you say, "Hey, in nine months I'm not ready." Like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I'm going to make sure all his other friends know." That's that's somebody put a star by on their name. Um, but if someone's like, "Oh, really? I thought >> I deserve this." >> Yeah. >> You deserve this. promised me I could out. Yeah, man. Gross. Gross. Gross.

That's hard. >> People, this is gross. And she says, "Passed away very recently." >> Yeah. This isn't like a year. Sounds like a month ago or like a couple weeks ago. >> It's like three days later. Here they come. Want my casserole dish back and I want grandma's Bible. Yeah. I mean, come on. Wow.

Yeah. It's um So, the the the other side

of this is funny. Sharon's dad is 96,

getting ready to be 97, in perfect health, in perfect mind. He's a wonderful man. And he is so funny. He's

like, "Everybody get you a sticky note and put something on." >> That's how my grandparents were. >> And so you go through the whole house. There's freaking sticky notes on everything. >> That's how my grandparents were. >> It's like, "Oh, somebody got to that one before us." It's like, >> you do underneath it. You had to do it underneath the picture. >> Oh, it's on the back of the picture. >> So you had to look and stick >> on the back of the the And it's so

funny. It's like Yeah. Uh,

>> but hey, I I actually like that it's first come, first serve. You want to come visit me? >> Well, and he's doing it. He's initiating it while he's alive. That's right. It's that's like his will. That's what my grand part of his will. >> Yeah. >> It's just It's funny.

>> Yeah. >> Like, y'all want something? Here's some sticky notes.

>> Well, it keeps the fighting down. >> I'm trying to just imagine imagine the conversation of me calling even one of my closest friends, sp wife wife. The chances of me asking for something is zero. >> I just can't imagine. I'm trying to figure out how to have that call. >> How How about how would you The only conversation is what I can give.

>> How can I help? >> What What can I do? How can I help? >> Okay. By the way, he had that shirt I really wanted. Like I can I have the Can I have a sofa? >> That fishing tackle? Yeah. >> Jeez Louise. >> Golly. What are you people? It's unbelievable. >> Gosh. >> Tiffany is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Tiffany. What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Dr. John. Thank you so much for taking my call. This is exciting. >> Exciting to have you. How can we help?

>> Great. Yeah. So, my husband and I along with my mom, we are planning to move to Florida to be closer to both of our families. We unfortunately lost my dad back in December.

And so, this move was put us close to my brother and his family. And then my husband's family just moved down to the same area um back last fall. >> Wow. >> Um my question is my Yeah.

Um my husband and I, we are both 43. We are in baby step two. Uh we've been tackling our debt very hard this year. We've already paid off about 25,000.

We have 65,000 consumer debt left.

is when we get ready to make this move, because we do have two houses that we have to get cleaned out and sold. When we are ready to start, stop, stop, stop.

We don't have anything. Do you own a house?

>> No. What? Um, I we we have a mortgage on

our home. >> I mean, you have a house. You and your husband have a house. And then your mother-in-law has a house.

>> My mom has a house. Okay. So, there's not We don't have two houses. She has a house and you have a house.

>> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. All right. But you're going to help her with the clean out and all that. >> We're going to help. >> But this is not We're not turning this into a commune. Okay.

>> No, no, no, no. Um, they were married for 55 years. They have 55 years worth of stuff. >> Oh, God. Hoarders. Yeah, I got you.

Okay.

>> Um, on an acre of property and four buildings. So, we have some work to do there. >> Okay. That but that's just helping her move. Okay. And then you got to sell your house. So what is your house worth?

>> So our house we right now we're anywhere between 100 to 120. We're expecting to make us a profit on the sale of our home. >> Oh, so it pays off the 65 and you got some money to move with.

>> Correct. Um, which was my question is, do you suggest that when we are ready to, you know, get a little closer to this, which the goal is to start working on this in January, that we pause our baby steps and stack up cash knowing that there is going to be expenses to move from >> they're going to give you a check when you sell your house,

>> right? >> You don't need a stackup cash. You're getting you're getting $100,000.

>> Okay. >> Right. >> I wasn't sure. I knew Yes, we're going to get the money. I just didn't know if to be proactive to have a little bit of saved up, you know, before we do that.

So, I wasn't sure. >> Here's the issue. Okay, here here let's pretend that you pay that you save up $10,000. Okay.

>> Yes. >> And so, you don't pay $10,000 worth of debt. >> When you sell your house, that's $10,000 more of debt you have to pay.

>> Correct. >> So, you didn't really gain anything.

>> No. So, it's like six of one half of the other. And that's what I wasn't sure on. like I I was I think just looking crunching the numbers too much and just driving myself nuts to that. >> So what I would do is is just make the move 100% debtree and have an emergency

fund if you have enough left after that to put a down payment on a house in Florida buy. If not, you may have to rent for a couple years and save up your down payment in Florida, but you're debtree with an emergency fund.

>> Well, here's the other part of the question. with the sale of my mom's home. Um, her and my dad did everything

correctly. She is debtree. She has

already discussed in gifting us on the sale of her home, gifting us um money for the down payment for the house in Florida.

>> Is she going to be living with you?

>> Yes. >> Oh, complicated.

>> Oh, yeah. A little complicated. >> Yeah. No, Do you have siblings?

>> Yeah. That's why they're moving. >> We do. Um, >> yes, I have an older brother. This is something we have discussed. This was this process of moving was something that my dad had very much wanted to do.

That was the goal. Unfortunately, his health just didn't hold. >> I would just I would get it I would get it all in writing just to make sure everybody's clear. >> Yes. >> Um, >> yeah, we're getting it. >> If you take a portion of Is it just you and your brother?

>> Yes, it's just my brother and I. >> Okay. So, if you take a let's pretend that there's a half million dollars of inheritance when your mom passes away,

>> okay? Your brother's going to get 250, you're going to get 250, but she's going to give you of that 250 upfront before

she dies. >> Correct. >> Then that uncomplicates it greatly. If she only has 150 and it all goes in your house and your brother gets screwed, unless you resell your house when she dies, this is not a good plan.

>> No. that and we've we've looked at it with the financial advisor she has there there is enough right now without factoring in any interest that grows on any of her IAS and all that that >> your brother would be easily getting half without touching your house you live in >> okay correct >> that makes it a lot cleaner >> then all she's doing is advancing you part of your inheritance and she's going to live with you in return for the advance yeah >> okay that's cool that's cool yeah but that gives you a real incentive to get everything cleaned up and shiny and let's get it All sold off.

Let's >> load up the truck and head to Beverly Hills. That is swimming pools and movie stars. Black gold.

old to know what that is. You got to be really old right there.

[Music]

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[Music]

in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the Debt Free stage. Eladio and Carla are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hi John.

>> Welcome. Good to have you guys. Where do you live? >> We're in Los Angeles, California.

>> Ah, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville.

Good to have you. and here to do a debt-free scream all the way across the nation. So, how much debt did you two pay off? >> With your advice and with God's grace, we paid off $312,000.

>> Wow.

How long did this take?

>> Five years. >> Five years. >> Very cool. >> Wow. It's amazing.

>> And your way, y'all are impressive. Your range of income during that five years, >> it was 100 to 130,000.

>> Cool. And what do you guys do for a living? Uh, I work for um UPS and also in a

restaurant. >> And I'm a physical therapist assistant.

>> Very cool. What kind of debt was this?

312,000. >> It's a mortgage. >> The mortgage.

>> You have a house in Los Angeles that's paid for. >> Yes. >> Y'all really are weirdos. I love it.

>> Amazing guys. >> Great weirdos. Awesome. What's the house

worth? >> About 600. >> 600,000. Yeah. Amazing.

>> Congratulations. Thank you.

>> You You guys You know that in California it's illegal to own your house. >> I know. >> Yes. We've heard. >> Oh my gosh. This is great, y'all. I'm so proud of you. >> What in the world? This is so cool. And

And how old are you two?

>> We're 39.

>> 39 years old. You have a paid for $600,000 house in Los Angeles, California. How much in your nest egg in your savings? Your retirement savings?

We haven't checked or autopilot. We forgot about it. >> About >> have to check >> about. >> We're not millionaires yet. >> Not what? Not not not 400k then.

>> No. >> Okay. Cuz there's 400k with a 600k house. You be baby steps millionaire. All right. But you're you're on your way at 40 years old. You're almost there.

And you're saving like crazy. You're working two jobs. You're doing everything. Very neat. And you paid off your home in five years. That's worth 600K. What in the Tell me how y'all got started on all this Ramsay stuff. So, how we got started, uh, seven years ago, um, it was, you know, a co-orker that

introduced us to the baby steps. His name is David, and he got me started on the on the financial piece online, the self-study. And so, I tried to get my husband >> on board. Uh, he resisted, you know, he wanted to do his own thing. Um, but what finally did it was the biblical principles that you teach. So yeah, you

know, his word, God's word never returned empty. And the word just started to transform and edify our lives. And I was just starting my Christian walk at that time. So Oh wow.

>> Yeah, it was really the word. >> What church do you all attend in Los Angeles? >> Uh it's in Pomona. Um and it's called

>> Spanish. Spanish church. Okay. All right. >> And so obviously you're a Hispanic community. What What country were you from? >> Uh from Mexico. >> Mexico. Awesome. Very cool. What part?

Uh, Guerrero. >> Oh, yeah. Fun. Okay. Cool. Cool. Good deal. >> So, what was it like? Your wife comes in and says, "Hey, I went to church.

>> You can't buy anything. No clothes,

cars. We're getting out of debt." >> It's kind of hard to do that.

>> But she she made it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> what do you do for UPS?

>> Oh, I work on a on the airport.

>> Okay. So just moving the the cans to the

airplane. >> And then what do you do in the restaurant? >> Uh like uh help to the servers.

>> Okay. All right. Okay. So here's what's important. Um and you're a you're a physician. You're >> physical therapist. Assistant physical therapist. >> Yeah. A tech assistant PT.

>> So y'all neither of y'all are working executive jobs.

>> No. >> You're not working upper management jobs. Y'all are out there grinding it out. >> Yeah. And we started from nothing. like poverty. Like we were living off of his income as a cook before

>> before he like moved up and um Yeah.

>> So you're throwing boxes and helping servers >> and you're >> I was in school >> dealing with egos, right?

>> Yeah. >> And I mean you're helping clients.

>> No, >> y'all are grinding it out.

>> Yeah. He's had two jobs for forever.

>> But this but this but you you know as well as anybody that the story is you cannot get ahead. You can't do it.

>> Yes, >> it's impossible. You can't do it. Nobody can do it >> unless you are one of these these special unicorn jobs.

>> And you guys you guys just did it.

Anyway, hold my hold my beer. Here we go. I mean, this is incredible. >> Glory to God. >> Amen. Way to go, God.

>> Yay, God.

>> I'm speechless right now.

>> It's so cool. >> What y'all have accomplished is so amazing. >> Yeah. You're heroes. You've changed your whole family tree.

>> Um and your proof that your proof that uh the great American dream is alive and well. >> Yes, it is. >> Very proud of y'all. Very proud. >> Anything is possible with Christ.

>> Amen. >> Well, in two jobs for five years also like grinding and grinding and grinding.

>> A diligent prosper, Proverbs says. So, there we go. Excellence in the ordinary over time. That's diligence.

>> Yeah. Way to go, y'all. Way to go.

Impressive. All right. So, when one of your friends comes up and he's making fun of you when you're moving some boxes around at the airport about about you uh bringing your sandwich so you can get out of debt, right? Uh and he goes, "Ah, you can't do that." You say, "Yeah, you can. All you got to do is What do you tell them the main thing you got to do to get out of debt?" >> Well, just don't spend anything. If you

don't need it, you you don't have to spend your money.

>> Would you please run for Congress?

>> Please. Please. Wow.

>> Please, we need you desperately. Helio, we need you.

>> It's amazing. If you don't need it, just don't buy it. >> Tada. >> In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil, but a foolish man devours all he has.

>> Wise people save money. H. You got it, man. You're a wise man. You're a wise man. >> What's What's the one thing that >> You married a wise woman. >> You wish you could have bought >> maybe his a truck before, but he still

doesn't have it. But >> yeah, he's been wanting a truck. Now, now you can save up and get one pretty quick, huh? No house payment. >> We had to cut a lot of things.

>> Do what? >> We had to cut a lot of things. >> Yeah. Now, now you What's the first big thing now that you don't have a house payment? What's the thing you're going to go buy right now?

>> Um, we're just going to uh do a couple house projects, pay cash for that, >> and travel a little bit more.

>> Okay. Good. Good. Breathe a little. Yes.

>> Cuz you've been you've been getting it. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. You've been shoveling hard.

>> Yeah. >> So, way to go you two. I'm very proud of you. You're heroes. >> You're amazing. Those two beautiful children there have had their whole lives changed and your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren's lives have been changed because of you paying a price to win. You're amazing. Very cool.

All right, bring them up and introduce them. I want to meet them. What are their names and ages?

>> Amy, she's 10 >> and this is Kate. She's seven.

>> Oh, they're beautiful. All right. Very cool. Very cool. I can tell I think they're daddy's girls.

>> Hey. Hey. I'm about to I'm about to say something. When you watch, if you go back and watch this YouTube, watching a dad smile that big as he watches his daughters >> is one of my favorite things in the whole wide world. Seeing a dad so proud of his two beautiful daughter. Amazing.

Man, you guys are just >> Yeah, we're very proud of them for being with us during our struggles and living this experience with us. >> Yeah, they'll remember. They'll remember even being here >> and doing that weird debtfree scream thing with that weird hillbilly guy in Tennessee. Yeah, but that that marked the time. This is the time. Your whole thing has changed now. It's all changed.

And you did it very, very well.

>> Ready for the sandwich generation?

>> Amen. Amen. Well, there's that. But, but

we but we can put some meat on the sandwich. I'm just saying. All right.

Very good. All right. Alio, Carla, Amy,

and Kate from Los Angeles. $600,000

houses paid for, $312,000 in debt paid off in five years working at UPS and as

a cook in a restaurant. and she is a uh

physical therapist assistant or PT >> PTA. >> PTA. Okay, perfect. Yeah, cool. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> Ready? Three, two, one.

[Music]

>> Wow.

Boom.

Yes.

It never gets old. I've been doing this 30 years and I never cease to get choked up. Especially when somebody that works that stinking hard to make this happen.

>> That one got me. >> That's incredible. Absolutely incredible. [Music]

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[Music]

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to take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Amy is

in Philadelphia. Hi Amy, how are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Great. Um, I have a question. I have a

rental property and um I've had a tenant

who's been in there for three years and she just lost her job um and she wasn't

able to pay August rent and I'm trying to follow up with September rent and I

want to be you know aware of her situation but um I also just wanted to see maybe how you would handle um you

know not getting paid her portion of the rent um and what I can do to work with

her portion of the rent.

>> Yeah. So, there's three tenants. Um, and

the there's three tenants and I just charge a monthly fee. However they pay for it, they pay for it. So, they just split it up in three ways is how they've been paying for it. >> Um, so the other two are paying their rent. Um, but the other one, um, you know, she lost her job. So, >> do you have a lease with the three of them in total or a lease with >> Yeah. each individual.

>> Um, three of them in total.

>> Okay. So, the only way you evict is all of them.

>> Correct.

>> And the other people are sitting there thinking they're current.

>> Uh, I think so. >> Because they think they paid their part and they think you're okay.

>> Yeah. I talked to her and see if she wanted to bring the other like if I should bring the other tenants into it.

>> Oh, definitely. They're on the lease.

They're going to get evicted with her,

>> right? >> Yeah. So, they need they needed to have already been in the loop like as immediately as soon as you were.

>> So, okay, guys, here's the thing. The three of you have together >> told me you're going to pay me x number of dollars. >> You chose to split it up three ways.

Okay. So, you are behind on your rent group.

>> Okay. >> Because of her losing her job.

Now, do you guys want to come do you guys want to come together and cover her until she gets a job >> or how are we going to work this out?

>> Right. >> You need to sit down with the three of them. Are you near the property physically?

>> I'm not. Um I'm about 2 hours away.

>> Okay. Then get on get a phone call with all three of them on the phone and say, "Here's what's going on. I probably should have brought you into the loop a little bit sooner because you probably feel like you're current and you're not." >> Mhm. Okay. So now then from that position once we've gotten clarity on where we all stand that either we all

three pay all the rent or we all three can't stay longterm. That's our solution. Now then from that point everybody's on the same page. Everybody can talk and then you can decide how much mercy and grace you want to mo dole out.

Okay. >> You've already doled out a month of one/3, >> right? >> Mhm. >> Okay. And you're getting ready to dole out another month of one/3 >> like today.

>> Correct. >> Right. So, this is this How long are you going to go along with this before she goes and gets a job doing door dash and pays her dad gum rent?

>> Yeah. Um I

I guess I don't know that. You need to know you're going to get taken advantage of if you don't know. I don't care how much generosity or mercy you want to extend. It doesn't bother me a bit >> because I do the same thing. We had a tenant that had cancer and we didn't charge them rent for 4 months.

>> But we said at the outset when the chemo starts, we're going to give you four months and let's see how this goes.

You've been a good tenant for 3 years.

We're just going to forgive the rent.

We're not going to charge you. You got enough to deal with. I don't owe any money on the house. You can live here free for four months. And after four months, we're going to revisit in in the third month before we decide how long.

But we're not going to do this for eight years while you go through chemo.

>> Right. I guess like it would say for me it would probably be 3 months because I do have the security deposit which would cover like her third like if she didn't

pay for three months. >> Yeah. Okay. So, you know, it might sound like here's what I want to do. First thing I want to do is shock them. Stick them with a cattle prod. All right. And get everybody on the same page where they're going, "Oh no. Oh crap." Right?

And we go, "Okay, wait a minute. We are all getting ready to have to move cuz June doesn't have a job." Right? Or whatever her name is. Right? And so we got to figure this out together. We have a problem. Not June.

>> All right. And not Amy. Amy doesn't have a problem. Amy's getting ready to get her house back. So, um, now now based on

that, guys, here's what I'm willing to do. you guys get together and figure out a way to cover September and October

between June working part-time jobs while she's looking for a full-time job and you two chipping in and I'll forgive her portion for August.

>> Okay? >> Or something like that.

>> You can offer a gift but only in context

of a limited arrangement.

That also does that make sense to you?

>> Yeah, it does. It does because like I mean I've already gone without in August. So, >> yeah. >> I don't know. >> Yeah. And and you're you're probably going to go without in September unless you get on the phone today.

>> And so, but you guys can you guys can catch me up a little bit later in September, but the three of you between a part-time job and the two of you catching on to what's going on here need to come up with September's rent. And you two go ahead and send me your two/3s. We got to come up with June's third. and and then y'all figure out between now and October how to do it and y'all get current and stay current and I'll in return I'll forgive onethird of this uh just to try to help y'all make the corner.

Listen, there there's not a program where she stays free anywhere.

>> Homeless shelter, right? But that's it.

And Amy, her roommates, her friends are

going to be an infinitely more influential voice in her life than yours. You have an onoff switch.

You have an either or switch.

>> They can sit down with her and say, "Hey, we love you. We're going to help you with your resume. We're going to call our friends. We'll see if we can get you a job here." But if you're looking for to be graceful for life change, they're going to be closer to that. >> Yeah. >> You you just have a big hammer. And you can be kind and gentle, but firm.

>> Exact. I love that. Okay. And you're not being firm right now. You've been very vague and unclear.

>> Gotcha. >> Cuz right now they think they're okay and that's not fair to them. The two that paid their rent, they think everything's cool, >> right? >> And the way you've got this lease structured, it ain't cool. They're in jeopardy, too. Right. So, um, it's all it's not, again, we're not trying to be mean, but I first thing I want to do is throw cold water and everybody gets awake. And now we've turned the lights on in the room. And now that the lights are on in the room, everybody can talk.

And we go, okay, now how can we all work together to solve this in a gentle and kind, compassionate way, but a very effective business-like way at the same time. And so, we're going to solve the problem. We're going to solve for the problem. >> And um and and then you're going to put some of it on them. You're going to help a little. I don't know if you give up August or not. That was a suggestion of mine. It's not a mandatory thing. You're not a horrible person if you don't.

>> You're not a horrible person if you give up her third for August and September. I don't care. But I do care for a lack of clarity. You're going to get yourself in a bind. And you're and you're not being fair to them. And I do care the lack of clarity also on the no limitations.

There has to be an end to this because there's no place if you got cancer or you don't have a job. There's no place that you live for free ultimately.

I mean we can be kind for but it's this is not forever. It's not a f this is not an infinite spectrum. There has to be at some point there's an end to it. And that's where uh people remember the

story 25 years later when they don't put limits on stuff that puts us of the Ramsey show in the books.

[Music]

Heat.

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Heat.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dr. John

Deloney, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host.

Samantha is in California. Hi Samantha.

How are you? >> Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. I'm good. >> Sure. What's up? How can we help?

>> So, I have listened to you and followed your plan for years. Um, we're currently on baby step six. Um, I'm employed and I

also co-own a business with my husband.

Unfortunately, we're probably getting divorced due to infidelity on his side.

Um, and I will receive a substantial settlement after the division of our assets. Um, with the divorce money, I'll

be paying off the rest of the mortgage.

That'll be debtree. My question is, with the remaining money, should I keep my lifestyle the same so that it doesn't change much for my three young kids and me, or should I save it and invest it for the future and just live off of my income?

>> Okay. So, one of the things that's being

divested is your half of the business

that you run together, >> correct? Yes. >> But you're still going to be working there?

>> No. So, he would need to buy me out of the business. >> Okay. So what will you be doing for a living then?

>> So I am a nurse. So I I have a good income from that. >> Oh, so you're all you currently are nursing and working in the business?

>> Yes. >> Oh, okay. I misunderstood. All right.

I'm back with you now. And so the

um Okay. So what do you make as a nurse?

>> So I make about 90,000 a year gross.

>> Good. That's excellent. It's a great career, by the way. You get to pick and choose what you want to do when you want to do it and make a lot of money.

>> Um, can and you can live on that, I assume, with a paid for house.

>> Yes. Yeah. I've run through the finances and we would be fine.

>> Okay. And how old are your babies?

>> They are five, six, and seven.

>> Okay. And if you can live on 90,000 in a

paid for house, that is not the lifestyle that the 5-year-old is accustomed to.

Um, so they go to a private Christian school. They're in all kinds of sports.

Um, we travel a lot. Um, so it's just it

would be cutting back on some things. It would just be like a little bit tighter [Music] >> for what they're used to. And >> let who's paying for the y'all pay splitting the Christian school after the divorce?

>> Um, that's a good question. He doesn't

love the idea that they're there. So, it would probably fall on me. He would rather them be at a public. >> Well, you haven't negotiated the settlement yet. I don't care what he wants. He decided he wanted somebody else. And that takes a lot of the care what he wants out of the whole thing. So, I don't give a crap what he wants.

>> Um the um once he decides not to behave,

my care for him's gone away. So, the uh

D. All right. So, what do you guys

uh make now? What's your current household income?

>> Um, it's hard with a business. I've like run the numbers for the actual business valuation and it's about 1.7 million

>> the valuation. But I mean, what's your income? >> Correct. >> Um, >> making a couple hundred a year and then you're making 90 a year.

>> Yeah, about that. >> All right. And um, but he's going to be paying child support, correct? Of course. >> Yes. >> Yeah. and substantial in California with

a $250,000 income. And what is the lump sum you're getting? How much money?

>> Um what I've calculated out to be would be um like after paying off the house um

and keeping the equity in the house because I'm assuming I'm going to hopefully be able to stay in the house.

I would get around 650,000.

>> Okay. So, if we pretend like that doesn't exist and we count child support and you live on 90,000, >> we deal with the Christian school and the divorce decree. He pays half and you pay half, >> I think you can trim some of the travel sports back and a little bit of the lux ultra luxury travel back and get your life in a sustainable situation on 100 grand a year.

>> Mhm. >> That's what I would do. I would not touch the 650. I'd pay off the house and then you ought to be able to live on 90 even in California.

>> And believe me, the the ones that are going to be more impacted by the lifestyle cut than anyone is you. And they're going to take their cues from you. They're five.

>> Mhm. >> They don't they really don't like, "Oh, you mean we don't get to fly private?" You know, that doesn't come up with a 5-year-old, >> right? Yeah. Um, here's two things I

want you to be one thing to be careful of and one thing to be super cognizant of. Okay?

>> The first thing is this. You have calculated on the back of a napkin, probably anxiously typing away at Excel sheets or however you're dealing with the stress of all of this.

>> Whatever number you've come up with will

probably not be the final number,

>> right? And the problem with that is if

you have imagined that you're going to get a check for $1.2 million, pay off the house, the 600,000 remaining on the house, and put 650 grand. If you get a check for a million dollar, you're going to feel like he stole 200 grand from you.

Your kids will feel it. You'll feel it.

The whole thing will go south. And so I

want you to open be very open-handed with the imaginary money you're playing with right now because you're going to they're going to get three different >> um evaluations of this business that might range all over the place and a and a divorce uh >> court or a mediator might tell you to take the a who knows how this rolls out.

>> And so it's holding it very open-handed.

You're entering into a very messy, heartbreaking situation.

>> Okay. And I get on your side trying to control every variable because some guy just blew your life up. I get that impulse. Um, and you want to take care of your kids. Mama bear's coming out. I get all that. But just hold the the math part very loosely. >> Not because I want you to be weak in the negotiation. >> Not at all. Be firm and strong.

>> But be I want you to take everything but the uh in the negotiation. That's not the point. Matter of fact, I'd be okay if you got 1.5 when you come out of this thing. So, suits me fine. He chose. It's just an expensive decision what he made.

And so, >> the uh cuz a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction, >> an adversarial business transaction.

>> Yeah. Not a win-win business transaction, but adversarial.

>> Yeah. And so child support, lump sums for businesses, alimony, all of those

things are on the table until they're not on the table and you agree to whatever you agree to in the settlement.

But um we start with I'm holding a winning hand and you screwed up. That's where we start.

>> And so um and and then we, you know, then we decide which cards we want to play, which chips we want to move to the center, those kinds of things to John's point. But don't get all dialed in on a certain number and then only to find out that you missed one of your calculations >> or he has hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt you don't know about and it's going to who knows what the what what plays out when people start opening up all their bank accounts and text messages etc. Here's the other thing I want you to be very careful of.

people like to say things like, "I I don't want my kids' lives to change,

and you need to exhale." That every part of their life is different now.

>> Yep. >> And so, too late. Fully owning

>> their sports is going to be different, their Saturday mornings are going to be different because now you're going to be working full-time. And so, your ability to just hop in a car and go on a trip or to do this sport or that sport or what, everything's different now. And so trying to hang on to their life as it is and duct tape all this other stuff to it creates an angst in that house that those kids will just permeate their bodies. >> So exhaling and saying the life we had is over.

What life do we want to build with my current salary, with the settlement, with our house or selling the house, whatever, >> we're solving for peace.

Don't solve for trying to keep everything exactly the same as it was >> cuz they know it's not the same. >> It's not the same. >> Cuz it's not the same.

[Music]

[Music]

Buying or selling a home is a big deal.

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or just click the description in the show notes. Shannon's in Iowa. Hi Shannon, how are you?

>> Hi Dave and John. Thank you so much for taking my call today. It's truly an honor to talk to both of you. >> You too. What's up?

>> Hey, I am actually hoping that you guys could provide a little bit of reassurance and maybe just uh be that that good sounding board for my husband and I. >> Okay. Um, just to give you some context,

we are currently in baby step six thanks to your your plans and practices. So, thank you for everything you do. Um, but I wanted to kind of get your guys's opinion. So, my husband has currently been on a night shift for about 10 years now, and he currently um brings home about 70% of our $220,000

income each year. Um the issue that we're running into is he is finally hitting his breaking point. Um he's busted his back for the last 10 years.

He's just getting burnt out. We have four small kids at home. Um and he's just, you know, they're getting >> What does he make if he goes to dayshift?

>> Well, I'm sorry. >> What does he make? He makes 150 now.

What's he make if he goes to dayshift?

>> So, it' be dramatically cut. So, we're looking at almost uh 50% in uh decrease.

So, it' be about $80,000.

>> Okay. And you make And you make 70.

>> Yep. Yep. Around there. >> Okay. So, you would live on 150 instead of 220. And you're in baby step six.

>> Correct. >> How much is your house payment?

>> It is $2,100.

>> Well, I don't know why you couldn't do that in Iowa.

>> Exactly. So, just to give some context, I have ran some some numbers and that is

um you know in the in the every dollar that's still putting away $1,400 for extra payment because we're aggressively trying to get out of baby step six.

>> Yeah. What do you owe on your home?

>> You owe 292 and it's valued at about

>> going to be going to be a while. Going to be a while. Yeah. All right. >> Yep. >> That's okay. >> So, how old are you guys?

>> So, my husband is 38. I'm 35. Um and

then that is we are very blessed um with our employer that we do get endofear profit sharing. So last year alone it was about 25,000 which we >> that was not in the 220 you gave me.

>> That is not. No. >> Oh. So that's not your real income. Your real income is 250.

>> No. >> Okay. All right. So um Shannon, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I would I would go to day shifts as soon as I could if I were you.

>> Okay. >> Under one big condition. Yeah.

>> Both of us look at the every dollar budget and agree we're going to live on

that. >> Yep.

>> So, you can't you can't like, oh, surprise. No, we're not surprised. We're like grown-ups. We're looking at the numbers. We are willing to live on this number instead of that number.

>> Yep. And and we're that's our that's our Sunday tradition. We we look at our every dollar budget every Sunday and we are so in sync. Um and I think that >> what does he what's he do for a living?

>> He is um in the manufacturing world. So

he's in a factory, a hot factory. Um

>> Okay. So he's on the line. He's working on the line. >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Very aggressive, but he is he is uh a provider. That's that's

what he knows to do. So he's I think he's just nervous. And I show him the numbers, but he doesn't believe me. So I'm like, you know what? I'm going to call David.

>> This one's not about numbers.

>> No. >> This is about worth and purpose.

>> Yep. >> And putting away the spreadsheets and

looking across the table and holding both of his hands and looking him in the eye and saying, "Honey, I'm so proud of you. >> We did it. >> We did it. >> We're here. >> You You gave up literally, he's going to die younger for that decade. He worked nights. You gave up years off your life so that we could breathe >> and now it's time to breathe. >> You're a good man.

>> He needs that more than he needs a spreadsheet from you right now. >> Wonderful, wonderful man. >> Yeah, >> he needs that. He needs that. And by the way, he put in his 10 years um he's going to go back to dayshift for about seven or eight months and someone's going to take him for management. He's going to double his salary right back. He's put in his time, >> right? >> He's grounded out >> if he wants it. He may not want that.

>> No, he said he's like, I just want to be holding my babies. I want to be able to be >> You can do that and be a management make double. >> You can do both. Yep.

>> You can do both. >> Yep. >> So during the same day hours that you be on the line day hours. So there's no shame in that.

So here's Yeah, John's right. This is not about numbers. And here's the the transition. When you're in baby steps one through three, you're intense and you work nights and overtime and you live on beans and rice until you get out of debt.

When you're in four, five, and six, where you're saving for retirement, kids, college, and you're paying off your house, you move from intense to intentional. And that's all I'm doing. I'm agreeing with you to move to intentional. Intentional says you can live on 70 grand less.

Whoopde. You're going to get there.

>> Yep. And and that's what I'm and that's what I'm telling him. I'm like, we we can do it. Yeah, I think it's Listen, I want him to grow up enough to look at the numbers and like a grown-up and go, "Oh, the math does work." Not, "My mommy told me it was okay if I come home." >> Yep.

>> But it's different than his mommy. It's his wife saying, "No, no, I want you to come home." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's a totally different conversation.

he's sitting at for 38 in his 401k.

>> It's It's not that. It's not that. It's not that. Touchdown. It's It's not about money. It's not about money. You did it. You scored that. >> We did it. We did it. Yeah. Yeah. We did it. >> We got there. We scored. And And look at the numbers, buddy.

>> Listen, you can, you know, you did it.

We together did it. You sacrificed to do it. Look at the numbers. Be a grown-up.

Go, "Oh, the numbers say I'm okay." That's what the numbers say. My wife says it's okay, but the numbers also, as a grown man, I can look at the numbers and say, "The numbers say it's okay." It's not rocket surgery. >> No. And also, after a decade, if you're

a night shift guy, that becomes who you are. It be it becomes your identity, becomes your gang. And so he's gonna have to shift his his identity. Yeah.

I'm now a guy who works his butt off during the day and then I go home and I'm a present dad >> and I get to, you know, tickle fight in the floor. Hello. >> Exactly. >> Hello.

Thank you. Thank you, Lord. It's a good thing. >> Yeah, man.

Y'all worked real hard for this moment. >> Yeah. Definitely needs to do it as soon as possible. But you got to believe it with the numbers and with the people that love you speaking into your life and speaking blessings over you.

And that's what John's talking about. So that's the way you do it.

Joe's in Detroit. Hi Joe. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. Hi guys. I really appreciate your phone call. >> Sure. How can we help? >> Um I have a question about my mortgage.

>> Mhm. >> So I own about 55,000 on my mortgage

right now. >> And I have about 70,000 in a high yield.

um uh fund right now.

>> Cool. Pay it off today. Today. Pay it off right now. >> You have a paid for a house, homie.

>> That's fun.

>> See, that's what I'm Okay. So, my financial advisor, so I'm making about 5.4% on my uh my fund right now. And

>> my mortgage interest rate is only like

three and a quarter. >> Hey, you need a new financial advisor. You need your financial advisor is a >> cuz he's making 3% on the spread, too.

>> He's not making anything. Nobody's making anything. This is 5%. Hey, dude,

look. Look at this. $55,000

times 2% is $1,000.

>> I know. Whoopde.

You can't buy a biscuit with this guy's advice.

>> Well, yeah. I So, for the last like four or five months, I've been putting an extra thousand dollar on my mortgage >> today.

What are you doing? Listen, if your house was paid for, would you go get a mortgage at 3% to invest it at five?

>> I hope not. >> Yeah, I know.

>> Pay it off today and fire your guy, man.

Get you a guy that's got a brain. >> Yeah, bro. Pay it off, man. If you hate it, if you wake up two months from now and you're like, >> Ramsey was nuts. I hate not being debtree anybody on my house.

>> I hate my mortgage. I I miss my mortgage. >> You can go down to a local bank and pick up another one. >> They'll they'll hook you up.

They'll fix you up. >> 30 years of doing this, I've never had anybody call me and go, "Dave Ramsey, I hate you." Cuz when I paid off my mortgage, I just I was miserable. >> I wanted one so bad. >> I wanted a mortgage so bad.

Your advice is so horrible. >> I went and got another one. >> I've never had that one time.

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[Music]

In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debt free stage, Jennifer is with us. Hi Jennifer, how are you? >> Hi, good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. Welcome. How much debt have you paid? >> 205,000.

>> Awesome. Where are you from?

>> Um from Milford, Connecticut.

>> Okay, cool. And uh how long did it take you? Yeah. How long it take you to pay off 205,000? Um when I got focused it

was five years and six months.

>> Five years. Very cool. >> That's amazing. >> And uh what was your range of income during that five years? >> Um started out around 78 and ended

around 165.

>> Cool. What do you do for a living? >> Um I work in the aerospace industry.

>> Mhm. Doing what? >> Um so I'm in the business management side. I you know basically >> So you manage rocket scientists?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. That's good.

>> Is that stressful? Somebody's like it would be tough. >> Somebody's like brain surgeons. Yeah, it is. I have to hold people accountable.

>> Yeah. Who who know way too much. Yeah.

>> Exactly. >> Yeah. Well, and if you know how to build a rocket, I assume you just assume you know how to do everything else on the planet also, right? >> Sure. >> So, what kind of debt was the 205?

>> Um, a little under 15,000 for student loans and the rest was my mortgage.

>> Hey, yay. You're a weirdo. A paid off

house. Boom.

>> What's this house worth, girl?

>> Uh, right now it's worth about 415.

>> Very cool. And how much in your nest egg in your retirement? >> Um, just shy of 300,000.

>> All right. Heading towards millionaire.

Almost baby steps millionaire. So, uh, how old are you? >> I'm 45. >> All right. Way to go, kiddo. Congrats.

Excellent. You rocked it.

>> Very, very cool. All right. Tell me the story because you you're all put together. You hang out with rocket scientists and and but you decide we're going to go game on.

>> Five years we're knocking out mortgage and everything. H. How did you get connected to Ramsay? Tell me how this all worked out. Um, so I got connected the first time in about 2005. Um, that's when I uh gave my life to the Lord and heard about it through my church. Wow.

And I gave my life to the Lord and immediately went into uh like a job season. >> Oh >> yeah. Like every time you think it can't get worse, it got worse. >> Oh my god. >> And you know, there wasn't any irresponsibility or sin or anything like that. It was just life happening.

>> Tragedy after tragedy. >> Yeah. It it was really intense. And um my uh pastors gifted me a scholarship to go through um FPU.

>> Oh wow. >> Um but I literally had nothing to work with. So it was like information and I'm a total nerd. So it was always there but I I literally had nothing to work with.

>> And um >> then basically in 2015 I was starting to

kind of dig back out of the hole by the grace of God. Mhm. >> And I uh got this job offer to move from

Kansas City to Connecticut. And I'm like, heck yeah, I'm I'm going to make the move. This is a great opportunity.

>> Um so when I got to Connecticut and I had a real income, which was fabulous.

>> Um I started remembering, hey, FPU, I've

got to get back with that. So I went through a course again. M >> um and then I started building an estate

because when I went through this season, I lost everything. Um literally negative

net worth. I should have been on the upward trajectory of life. I'm a single woman uh by design. You know, I don't have children. I don't ever plan on getting married. And so when you're by yourself and you lose everything, it's

very um it can be very burdensome.

>> That's that's an understatement. How about terror? That's a scary place to be. Yeah. >> Terrorizing. >> Yeah, it it it was. >> There's no safety net. There's no support mechanism >> there. I mean, I was I was staring homelessness in the face. It was very real. >> Um so when I started uh rebuilding um my

instinct was to save everything.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And um >> that's a good instinct. >> I I bought a house. Um the Lord literally tucked it away for me. It's a It's a beautiful original Victorian.

>> It's like a life-sized dollhouse. And I knew I had about a 5-year window before I needed to do some major repairs and upkeep. >> And I was saving away, had a nice big

fat nest egg for that, and was continuing to just pay minimums. And

then I was entering into my uh just before my 40th birthday, and the Lord just really convicted me. and he's like, "You've got money in your account to get rid of those student loans today." And I'm like, "Okay." So, for me, that

was a huge leap of faith because >> when you have nothing and then all of a sudden you have something, giving it away feels like the rug's going to get pulled out again. >> Um, but I trusted him and I did it.

>> Um, and then I started, you know, saving again. It just astounded me how quickly it came back. Mhm.

>> Uh then I uh was, you know, working on

the different repairs um for the house,

saving up that fund and got to last summer and construction prices were just through the roof. They were ridiculous.

Wanting $60, $70,000 to rebuild a porch or $100,000 for 18 windows. It was ridiculous. I felt like I wasn't making progress. So I I asked the Lord. I'm like, "What do I do?" Like, "I've got all this money saved." and he said, "Pay off the house in one year." And my jaw dropped on the floor because at that time my mortgage balance was about 145,000.

>> I pulled 72,000 out of my nest egg, slapped it on the balance, and then every penny that was going to my uh floating fund. Uh I or I'm sorry, my

sinking fund. I put it on I put it on the mortgage and it was gone in uh nine

months. >> How's it feel? >> Uh surreal. Amazing. Like I live on $600

a month. It's stupid. It's ridiculous.

>> And I just rebuilt my porch, which was a

huge project. And >> paid cash for that. >> Oh, yeah. I paid cash for that. I'm getting ready to do, you know, the siding and the windows. I got a contractor that's so reasonable.

>> And when you're standing there with cash and you don't have to do anything, they their reasonableness changes. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. They can tell. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> What an adventure, dude. Congratulations. you you you have developed through this journey a u a backbone of

steel. I mean this we can just feel the strength emanating off of you not only from your faith but just the journey has toughened you.

>> Um and so there's nothing comes at you.

>> You're ready. >> I'm ready. Yeah. There's >> it's pretty cool. >> Yeah. There's nothing there's nothing that can really >> We get these calls about once every two

weeks with someone who's on the edge of homelessness. >> Yeah. >> And hopelessness.

>> Talk to them for a second.

>> I was there. I I'll never forget the day

um sitting on the steps of my house going, "What's the safest parking lot that I could sleep in?" Mhm.

>> Uh my my first home was taken um when

all of the um the big three mortgage companies were erroneously foreclosing.

They erroneously foreclosed on my house and I just had major surgery and I had 10 days. >> It just big orange sticker on my house.

You don't own this anymore. And I didn't even know that they were taking my house. I was current. >> Wow. Um, but it was done. And

the only thing that I knew was I was a about a two-year-old Christian.

I knew that my um, you know, what I'd

learned is that, you know, the Lord is my provider. He can bring me through.

And my precious pastors told me, you

will see the goodness of the Lord in the

land of the living. this is not the end of the story. And I hung on to that. I I genuinely did every day.

>> That's a word right there. >> And >> and it came true, too. >> Yeah, it really did. >> So, we know that was the word. >> Yeah. >> So, I um just one little miracle at a

time, things came together. I was not homeless. I always had somewhere safe to sleep. Um and it was a couple years.

>> Don't depend on the savings account. Depend on me. Pay off the student loans.

Don't depend on the savings account.

Yep. Pay off the house. Y >> depend on me. Depend on me. Depend on me. You've had a steady message.

>> Yeah. >> For that's a decade, isn't it?

>> Yep. >> Or more. It's 15 years. >> Well, yeah. Yeah. 15 years. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Wow. >> Yeah. >> What a walk. >> Yeah. And and during it, I mean, it the journey just from, you know, five, six years ago, I had major surgery on my back, you know, 27 staples up my low back and >> Oh, I shouldn't have said backbone of steel, should I? >> No, I literally like literally do backbone of steel. Who knew?

>> Plate. Yeah. >> Be careful with that. Okay.

>> Wow. Proud of you. Way to go.

>> Crazy. Yeah. >> Yeah. You are Wonder Woman for sure. I'm so proud of you. >> Thanks. >> All right. Jennifer from Milford, Connecticut. Like no other. 205,000 paid

off. House and everything in 5 years.

Making 78 to 165 from homeless to there.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> 3 2 and one. I am debtree.

>> Yeah.

So amazing. Yeah.

Wow, [Applause] man. I'm getting soft in my old age, Dave. These keep getting I've been soft in my old age. I cried an Applebee's commercial.

[Music]

Our [Music] scripture of the day, Colossians 4:6.

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you

may know how to answer everyone. Thomas

Soul said, "We all enter the world knowing nothing, but by the time we're teenagers, we know it all. Sometimes it takes decades later before we know enough to realize how little we know."

Chris is in Memphis. Hey, Chris. How are you? >> Hey, I'm doing good, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, my wife and I are in Baby Step six, and I'm transitioning from intensity to intentionality. Good. >> Um, and now I want to sign up for a

country club membership at the club where I grew up playing golf with my dad and my brother every weekend because I want to give that same experience to my son who's four and a half right now. Um, and the only thing holding me back is I think would Dave say go do it or would he say it was stupid? And then I thought, well, I can just call him and ask him.

>> Okay. When has Dave Ramsey ever called anybody's Never mind. Never mind. Never mind.

>> So, Chris, uh, how much is the dues or the, uh, initiation and how much are the dues? >> The initiation's 5K. The dues are $550 a month plus $85 for food and bev

$5,000

>> to for the initiation. Yeah, >> that's all.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, I thought that was a whole bunch of money. I was going to say get >> No, there are country clubs. There's plenty of country clubs and golf clubs that are half a million.

>> 250,000. Plenty of them. Nobody's angry.

>> We got the lowest cost living around.

And >> that's good. Okay. So 5,000 bucks and 500 bucks a month. And what's your household income?

>> Uh about 120,000.

>> Okay.

And you're obviously uh putting 15% away

for retirement and you're working on a budget with your wife and you're in agreement, >> right? >> And uh what is her opinion of this uh purchase?

>> Um I I told her, "Hey, um I want to sign

up at this country club. What do you think?" and instead of asking me any questions, she just said, "Yeah, if you want to go ahead and do it." I think um over the last 11 years of our marriage, I think I've just built up a level of trust with her in handling our finances that she she didn't even ask if >> So, she didn't even ask how much it was like I did.

>> No, but I went ahead and told her anyway, but she she green lit it before I told her.

>> She needs to be careful. It could have been a half a million. Okay. Um

but you wouldn't have brought it to her because you're trustworthy. Okay.

Anyway, yeah. Uh,

well, I've got wife agreement. I have money. It's within the budget. It's something you desire to do.

I think people at your stage buy $5,000

couches or $15,000 cars or go on $5,000

cruises or $10,000 cruises, don't they?

And that fits in our our plan. That's part of being intentional in baby steps four through six. while you're hitting your other goals. You just have you save the money to do that and you you know you're pulling 550 a month out including your FNB. But um

uh I

it it fit it it checks all the boxes. I would do it.

>> Okay, cool. >> No, it's not stupid. Um what you're doing is you're thinking through does this affect my life? Do I does it

prevent me from hitting other goals that are more important than this goal? The answer is no.

Because it's a small amount of money in ratio to your income in your situation.

Does that make sense? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's just when I say it out loud to people and I'm thinking about doing it, all I can hear myself saying is, "I want to buy a boat." You know, so it it just sounds silly when I say it out loud because, you know, I just went through all the other baby steps and we were super intense and now >> Well, you were intense. So, you live like no one else so later you can live >> and give like no one else.

>> Yeah. >> That's why you did that. And so that's moving from intense to intentional. You You had the right verbiage when you started the call. Okay. Um, it it just

it feels weird because you sacrifice to get here and then the first time you actually draw back and enjoy a little of it or the first time you draw back and have a a sizable generosity move. Like

if you gave away $5,000, you'll have that same emotion.

>> Like it kind of feels weird like am I going to be okay if I do this?

>> That kind of emotion. And that's the because it's a muscle you've not been used to using. You've been using the frugality muscle only, not the generosity or enjoyment muscle. And it's it's it's a it's a new it's new and it takes a little time to get there. I think you do it though. Kate's in California. Hey Kate, what's up?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

Um, so my question is regarding, well,

basically it boils down to at what point

do my husband and I call it quits on a

business venture? >> How long you've been doing it?

>> Uh, about five or six years.

>> Wow. Is that your full-time gig?

>> Um, no. So, let me give you a little

backstory. Um, my husband is a creator.

He's a writer and a comic book artist and he's been working on some intellectual properties that he wants to either uh self-publish or sell to like a

large uh company um and sort of break

his way into the entertainment industry basically. Um, when he first started

doing this, I I told him that I would

not feel comfortable paying for this or funding it with our household income. I said, you know, I'm I'll support you in doing this and trying this, but um you're going to have to go do a side gig or something to to fund it. He's been he's been paying artists to create these artworks for him, basically. Um, so it's

been about 5 years of him doing gig work

like working, you know.

>> So, so he's invested a ton in it and has made no money.

>> Correct. >> So, this is not a business. This is a hobby.

>> Um, >> businesses have a profit.

>> Businesses have profit.

>> Right. And that's kind of my attitude about >> No, that's not an attitude. That's a fact. >> It's a fact.

>> Yeah. Right. His hobby is is imagining a

thing and then hiring an artist to make that thing come alive.

>> But he's made no money with it.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. >> And he's he's just crossed a threshold where somebody can sneeze and a computer can just do it now for you.

>> Right. It it's I mean there's a lot of things about it that are that are becoming frustrating to me and I but

well it's just we have four kids. Um,

I'm I'm the primary bread winner in our household. He He >> Okay. It's not becoming frustrating. He is becoming frustrating. He's been frustrating a long time. And you're entering into resentment.

>> Yes. >> And you need to put that conversation on the table. Clear as kind.

>> The best way you can love him right now is to put all that on the table.

>> Yeah. >> Because he's choosing he is choosing a hobby and part-time gigs over five years.

to uh over his wife and kids and their

stability. It's not even like he's an actor and he keeps getting gigs and he's getting more and he's pushing it and he's go that's not even happening here.

>> This has been 100% outlay. No income.

>> None, >> right? And it's Yeah. And he's, you know, but I I have to say I do I I'm a creative person myself. And so >> this has nothing to do with being a creative. It has to do with being a responsible adult. Creatives can be responsible adults. >> Dave and I are both creatives, but when you make humans, you're you're you also are a creative when you're a parent, and that's where the bulk of your energy goes.

>> Yeah. You get you get to take care of your family. I get to be creative only after my wife and kids have been served.

>> Yeah. >> Or I get to be creative in a way that makes a profit so that my wife and kids are served, right? >> Like writing a best-selling book. That would be a creative thing. But the sell but the book sold a million copies.

Hello. So, there's that. And that's the thing. You got to, you know, >> or I do creative stuff. I play music. I I >> So, we can't just you you are trying to be sweet to his dreamer self. But here's

the thing. I If um you you we love

people who dream. We don't love people who live in them.

You need to do something with the dream.

Leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. So, my daughters were teenagers. if they came in and said, "Daddy, he's the nicest guy. He's a dreamer." I'm thinking, "Oh god, they're going to live in my basement." Okay? So, you don't want to live people that are live in their dreams. We want people who execute out of the dream and turn it into a vision, a goal, a strategy, an implementation that makes money.

We have to feed our family. So, yeah, you guys got some marriage work to do.

Yes, he needs to close the hobby down because it's frustrating his wife to the point she's calling us.

That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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[Music] [Applause] today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author, Dr. John Deloney and

we are answering your questions about life, money, relationships, career, anything and everything. So give us a call at

888255225. All right, we're going to go to the phones and is it Torren from Boston? Hey, welcome to the show.

Uh, hey guys, thank you guys for taking my call. Absolutely. Is it Torren? Did I get that right? Yep. That's perfect.

Awesome. How can we help?

Uh, so I'm an 18-year-old and I'm a senior in high school this year and I wanted pretty much advice on what to tell my parents about college. I've been watching you guys for a while now and uh I know the biggest thing was, you know, don't go into debt. Don't take out loans if you can. Try and cash flow it.

So, I figured I would want to go to a cheaper school. I live in Massachusetts, so it's a community college is free. But I figured I would go there and I could transfer to a state school where uh it's an 100% acceptance rate after out of the community college I want to go to. And um my parents were very against this idea.

sport in college and go to a private university. They told me that like debt doesn't matter. And yeah, I just wanted to make sure you I was making the right decision because they don't agree with it. They are paying for it. I went to community college. No, they're not paying for it. Yeah, they don't get a vote then.

I brought that up, but they said they're going to be kicking me out. They don't have to pay for housing. They also like take the car and my phone away. I mean, if they want to throw a grown-up temper tantrum, that's like the That's like the most babyish thing I've ever They Wait, I Yeah, I want to know more.

Why? That's so That's so That's so That feels very extreme. Like, it's one thing if your parents kind of like turn their nose up at community college cuz they're very educated. New England.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, "Oh my gosh, can't believe you're going to go to community college." But to kick you out and take your car in your phone.

No, I don't really understand why. They just said it would look bad on resumes and they think I'm making the wrong decision. They said I was being pretty rude about it. So, I think that's why.

Well, if if if I I I have no problem with a parent saying, "Hey, as for me in my house, you're going to this school

and we're paying for it and if you want to go somewhere else, you're on your own." I I have no problem with that at all. That happens all the time. And if they say, "Hey, in this house, we go to Harvard and so we've created this fund and you're going to Harvard if you get in." I'm I have no problem with that. If

they tell you, you will not go to that school that you can afford, which is free. you will go take out loans and put

yourself behind for the next 15 years of your life or 20 years of your life depending on what private school you go to. And if you don't do that, we're going to take your cell phone. We're going to take our ball and we're going to go home. We're not playing with you anymore. That just sounds like real childish immature behavior because what they're doing is they're they're asking you to have all the skin in the game and they're just going to sit on the sidelines and holler at you.

I I thought the same thing. I don't I don't really know what their their plan was for it. I I Yeah. Is this out of character for them? Like, were you shocked by this or is this like, "Yeah, yeah, I could see mom and dad doing this." I already knew that they didn't want me living there after I was 18.

They said they would help me out a little bit before. It was definitely out of character uh for them to like to once they kind of like said like my mom said I could keep the car. My dad was very against keeping the car after that. But uh were you being a jerk, dude? Were you being an 18-year-old just like a turd?

Were you being kind and thoughtful?

I will admit for like the first like 30 minutes talk about I was very kind and peaceful and then I started to I was I wasn't as nice as I should have been to them. All right. Yeah. I spent my whole career working with 18-year-olds. Go tell your parents you're sorry.

All right. Go be a respectful 18-year-old son and say, "Hey, I got fired up and I acted like a kid and I'm sorry. Um I do not want to go into debt for college and I respect your I I respect you want your kids. said, "You want to be able to tell your friends that your kid graduated from this college?" And I I get that you don't you don't like this.

Don't say that. That's disrespectful, isn't it? I know. That was me just having a little bit little bit of a mommy dick, but like um like she wants to be able to go to bridge club and tell like, "Well, my kid is Rachel.

We used to call it we used to call it the uh we used to call it the soccer mom scholarship." I worked at one university. We would lose students. Um we would give somebody a half scholar. I'm sorry.

Yeah. and they would go to another school that cost 50 grand, but they got a $1,000 JV soccer scholarship and we

would lose them, which is a right, it's

a it's it's a $30,000 a year move,

$120,000 move to play JV soccer to so that so that parents could be like, "Oh, my my kid's playing on a soccer scholarship." Right. It costs them money like six figures, right? It's $1,000.

True. But I I would tell your parents you're sorry and then you have to make an 18-year-old decision. Yeah. And Tor, let me say this, too. Okay. Uh, and John's the education nerd. He loves education, so he can maybe back me up on this. Um, just just for perspective, so you're in Boston, and I we have friends

that came from that area, and the way even the the Northeast, I would say, even specifically, the way they view education, there is a there is a high premium, high regard like it is it is everything. When we come to the South,

it's important. Say it, Rachel. It's important, but it's not life. Like like there's a belief of like you can scratch and claw and start a business and be as successful as the guy that has the college degree or that you know I mean whether you go to college or not there's kind of a mic row like just kind of get in there and you you figure it out and you can still be successful but it doesn't have this air about it which I'm not saying all New Englanders have that but I but I do think as an 18-year-old that's growing up in that environment.

Not that we have it right necessarily.

I'm not saying that. But you can be successful. You can meet

people and network outside of a college.

Like there are ways to live life that is not one path of just it has to be this prestigious education. If you don't get this, it's going to look bad on resumes.

You're never going to get a job. You're going to be homeless and you're going to die. Like that's not the that's not the route. That's not right.

Um so just know there is there is more to life outside of possibly the bubble in which education is talked about in your family. And for whatever it's worth, do John loves it. such as but I've I've got a I've got a I think one of the most mission-minded institutions in the United States is can be found inside of community colleges and for whatever it's worth my mom Dr.

Deloneyi was my mother um who graduated in her 50s with her PhD, started at a community college as a tenure full professor. Right. So, so you can here's what you can do with a community college education. Anything you want to

Yeah. Period. Um maybe you have to work harder to get job number one. Fine.

But by the way, you're going to transfer out, right? You'll go to a state school or to a private wherever you end up on a transfer out, right? Yeah. There's a uh yeah, there's a program called Mass Transfer and it guarantees acceptance as well as some other scholarships as long as you maintain a certain grade point average in uh community college.

Man, that's good. And and you're right on. And you know, and for fun too, Torren, like just run some numbers on the ROI of the private college that you'd go into debt for, average interest rate on a student loan, how long that would probably take you to pay off when you if you got out of school with an average maybe an above average salary, let's say.

repay that, starting in a financial hole significantly, six figures probably for this school versus getting through it debtree, doing the free community college, working, saving up, graduating from state school, starting off, and starting to invest the moment you get your first paycheck because you're going to have money and not be in a hole.

Financially from the math perspective, who comes out ahead? Oh, yeah.

Especially Especially getting started.

All right. Yeah. And and for everybody listening, I'm proud of you for think outside the box, but be nice to your parents. Be Yeah. Be respectful. Treat your parents with dignity. Um and for everybody, I love private schools. I I've worked at multiple private schools.

I would love for my kids like I love private schools. I just don't like parents lobbing grenades at their kids and saying, "Hey, to prop us up, you go

do this thing that's going to cost you 10, 20 years of your life for making us feel good." I don't like that. Yeah.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We're going to Chris in Dallas, Texas. Hey

Chris, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you guys? We're doing great. How can we help? Um, so my girlfriend of just over

a year now moved in about 5 months ago

um from her grandmother's who has, you know, supported her. For context, I'm 26 and she's about to be 25. Um, I do have

a career at the moment and currently pay all the bills and it's kind of become a

weight on me that she isn't really contributing because she doesn't have a job.

Well, she works part-time. Um, in back in February, she started a certification

course to be a farm techch. Okay. Um, and since then she discovered that the certification alone doesn't get her very much in the job market. So, she's working on the test, but it's, you know, kind of slowgoing. Um, so what what did she say

when you sat down and talked to her about this?

Um, she just she just isn't motivated. I mean, um, it's not something that she feels that she needs to do or has to do,

and I'm having trouble with that.

So, that's fair. So, yeah, there's

another adult in the relationship.

That's both of you are correct right now. She doesn't have to do anything

because she gets to play house with you and you pay all the bills. She gets to live an imaginary life together. You know, we jumped the gun on that. I do agree. But the situation did also call for it. her grandmother had to downsize and she on social security so well I mean it is what it is that myself but no no I mean I'm just saying I'm saying I'm I'm not I'm not trying to be judgy I'm just saying she's got a cush situation

and so she's right to say I don't have to because she doesn't you're still you're not I lived with my mother a couple years ago um but I decided I wanted wanted more for myself. That's right. Um so Chris does this change from a relationship standpoint. Yeah.

And this is I mean, call me old school. This is where the complication happens when you act like you're married and you're not, right? And and and you're moving in together, right? And all of it like it it this is what ends up happening that it's not as easy as like, oh, I found this kind of thing about Yeah.

my girlfriend and and this this may be a deal breaker, but I I need to figure it out on a couple more hangouts and now now I'm going to call it quits. Now it's much harder to call it quits when she's when she's living there, right? So, um this is part of that complication.

the kids would call it a beige flag or a red flag uh when it comes to like her

work ethic and who she is? Like are you starting to see other parts of her that concern you for a long-term relationship? Well, the thing is I see myself in her from a few years ago. So, I was, you know, in the same situation was with my mom. Um but I had that

realization. Unfortunately, I don't know how to come how to help her come to that point. So it's two two old married people will tell you you can't you can't

that was thousands of dollars of therapy and you just give it to you for free.

the earlier and quicker you can realize you can't make somebody that you love and care about come to any sort of realization and you can't think oh if I can just have the right phrase the light bulb will come on if I can just have that right that right sit down she'll see it if I just say it the right way or I want something I wanted something more for my life

and now look at me that's not how most of the world works most people want to take the easiest path possible and she has that with too,

right? But my guess is that beyond the money part, like going back to what Rachel's saying, this is an integrity issue. This is a character issue. This is like, oh my gosh, this is going to show up with kids. This is going to show up with when one of when my

mom, yeah, it's always going to be a thing that she didn't want to do it. She's just not going to. And we're seeing that in real time. She doesn't want more for her life. And that's hard to And again, Chris, we're not talking about that. We're saying, "Oh my gosh, she has to like go be this like boss babe and go make, you know, six figures." No, no, no. She just needs to like pay bills.

Well, even even deeper than that. Y'all had an agreement that like forget the working part. Like y'all made an agreement. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Here's who we're we're going to move in together and here's who we're going to be. And five or six months in she's like, "Yeah, I'm not doing that." Were the Were the expectations, Chris, pretty clear moving in or if she was on the phone, would she say, "No, that's not what we talked about." What would she say? Um, I mean, I

had explained that I would take care of her until she got her stuff together, but so the, you know, the agreement was that she would. Um, but now at this point, you know, she's she moved in at her friends temporarily and she thinks that that's the better option, but I don't see that as the case. You said she moved in with her friends. We need to figure out how how to I'm sorry. She

moved in with her friends.

Right. And her friend has all her bills paid by her parents. So she she's moved out. Oh, y'all aren't living together anymore?

As of a few days ago. Oh, did you break up? Did you kick her out? What happened?

Um, no. Just I I confronted her about it again. Um, and she got mad. Sensitive.

Okay. Oh, wow. You've made a lot of more

moves than I was thinking. Good for you.

Well, now I'm, you know, wondering my losses or which that's not up to y'all.

But yeah, I Here's the thing. I want you

to have a a little bit of time just with Chris,

right? And I want you to actually sit down and be honest with yourself. And

it's going to be tough because you're emotional. You feel the pain. You love this person. You care about this person. You had Here's the hardest part. You had plans with this person.

Right? You started creating pictures for tomorrow and this person was in those pictures and then it was revealed this

person doesn't want that same life that you want. And then this person just bailed on you when you said, "Hey, I want to sit down and have this conversation." And so just because something hurts doesn't mean it's not the right move. But I want you to be honest with yourself. And by the way, me and my wife broke up three or four, I don't know, five times when we were dating. So that doesn't mean it's over either. But yeah, and she has popped out

before. You know, she just she gets scared, okay, of her emotions, I think.

And you know, but I think the deeper

question is what's this life we're building together? What's it going to look like? And is she a kind of person you want to build a life with? And I think you having the courage to be honest and say, so far, no. Cuz when the

going gets hard, you kind of just don't want to do anything. And she might say, I want someone that's just going to take care of me and do whatever I want whenever I want it. and I want to be a princess. And you can say, "Amazing.

It's not gonna be my I don't want to ride or die like that." And you get to choose. You both get to choose that.

Right. Right. And that that may mean that both of you end up heartbroken for a season.

Yeah. Sounds like that's it. But I hate it for you.

Well, that's okay. Can I tell you it's um most people wouldn't have the courage to do what you did.

to sit down and say, "Hey, here's what we agreed on. Here's what I want. Are you still in?" And she said, "No." Uh, most people go ahead and go ahead and get married. And they figure this out and you're five or six or seven with two kids when they're just they've had enough.

Yeah. But that doesn't make your pain today feel any better. I'm sorry, man. I hate it for you. That's all right.

Appreciate time. Can I give you uh Can I give you one homework assignment?

Sure. How old are you again? 26. Did you say 26? Write I want you tonight by

yourself. Um, no alcohol, nothing. I want you to write a letter to 30-year-old Chris.

Okay. Okay. And I want you to tell him the things that you started to do today so that he could have the life he had when he was 30. And if she's in that picture, then go call her tomorrow.

But I want you to be clear about what you want your house to feel like. The partnership you have with a romantic partner. And I want you like financially, what is this thing going to look like when you're 30 and what must be true today so you can begin taking those steps. You're just going to reverse engineer it.

But I want you to write a letter to yourself. Okay?

But this it's a way to get your head out of this this immediate pain and this immediate motion and get your head back up on the horizon and say, "Okay, what needs to be true for tomorrow?" Okay.

Okay. I'll give that a try. All right.

Appreciate you, man. Thanks, Chris. Best of luck to you. Yeah. And always remember when you're setting a very reasonable boundary or expectation for someone, you're not being cruel. Like this is this is the world and we have to pay bills. We have to do things right.

So you're not asking this like insane

request, right? I mean this is this is pretty basic stuff, Chris. So I don't want you to feel like the bad guy in it.

I mean, seriously, it's I don't know.

It's it's pretty basic, but I'm I'm I'm proud of you and like really encouraged that you had the courage to set that boundary um in a hopefully a very kind way, which I think you did. You seem like a great guy. So, sorry, Chris, but glad you called in. Hope we could help.

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This is the Ramsey

Show.88255225. Hey, listen. If you are concerned about the economy and you just

see your neighbor pulling into their your your nice middle-ass neighborhood in a car that you like, how do how are you affording that? Why would

you do why? and you just wish people around you had the wisdom of this

show for no money. You don't have to you don't have to send any money. You know, all you have to do is like or subscribe the show. It puts the show up into the algorithms and it kicks it into the feeds of your neighbors, into their podcast feeds, into their YouTube feeds.

It just sends the show everywhere. And the more people who subscribe and like, and I know it's a pain in the butt, and I know it sometimes you have to log in.

It's worth it for everybody. It puts the show in front of more people. And so,

um, for everybody, it's a it's a it's a

it just doesn't cost anything to help out your neighbor. And share share the podcast, though, too. I mean, I get my crime podcasts that I listen to from friends, even here at the office, and we'll send each other podcasts that we love. So, if you love it or if there's an episode you think, "My mom needs to hear this," send it to her, right?

Or a buddy that that h this marriage sounds like yours, send it to them. Be be careful. Make sure to tell them that. Be careful with that.

But yeah, that's right. Hey, let's go out to Honolulu and talk to the Max.

Hey, how you doing? Thank you for taking my call. You bet. How's How's Hawaii,

Max?

It's nice. It's nice. Sounds. You're not Max Holloway, are you? One of my heroes.

No. All right. What's up?

All right. Um, I was calling because uh I something happened where my brother kind of holds a lot of anger towards me because I he got fired from his job and I had to take it over. Um, and I'm

getting ready to move out now and I'm worried it's going to cause like more family disconnect. So, I'm just trying to get some help like navigating the situation. Is it a family business?

Um, it's like it's like a financial and family thing. I mean, or the business.

No, it's it's somebody we know that he worked for. What is it? What kind of job? What kind of business is it? Uh, it's a it's a pool cleaning job. Okay. I take home like about like 50 years. So, it's pretty good. 50 a year. And why why did he get fired?

He had gone on a trip for an extended leave and I was uh covering it for him and the boss at the end of it decided to fire him and offered me the job.

Oh man. So, you did a better job.

I I don't know. It was just like he didn't like break a rule. you just out cleaned the pools and the boss was like, I kind of want you instead.

There were some issues with him and that's was a part of it. I wasn't sure if my brother would even be um let back after anyways, but uh Okay. Okay. So, what what what is his beef with you that that you weren't right or die? Like, yeah, forget these guys. Um is that the

is that the beef?

I think um what happened was he's just feeling like he lost out on a good opportunity. He did. He wasn't a good worker. Somebody to blame for it and it's me. He wants to blame me for it instead of himself. All right. And I'm

I'm okay with that. The main issue is his the money from the job helps um

financially support my family. I come from like a single mom household and I'm 19. I'm trying to move out and be on my own, which would mean that I wouldn't have the same amount of money for my mom anymore. And I'm worried that's going to create even more of a family disconnect.

So, I don't really know what to do. What's your mom do?

She clean. She's a cleaner. She She works like two jobs cleaning. Okay. How much does she make?

Um I'm not sure exactly. I think I think I went over it with her one time. Okay.

How much does she How much difference does she need? Does she like how much are you covering the bills in the house?

I'm contributing about it was about $1,500. I was paying off some debt on the water bill and then now it's like to about 1300. I pay some of rent. I buy all of our food and I I cover the the water. Is she Does she have other struggles, Max?

Um, no. I mean, I think like with addiction or with mental health challenges, do um No, I I don't Sorry, what was that? Did I'm asking does she have No, not not with addiction or mental health.

Okay. So, she just um Yeah. Why Why have

you become the caretaker of your of your of your mom?

I I think it's just it's really expensive here and it's hard to afford

to live out here if you aren't making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Exactly. And I have two the main thing is that I my mom I think she'd be fine

on her own, but I have two younger sisters and that's where I feel weird leaving. I feel like I'm abandoning them.

How old are they?

They're 11. They turned 11 yesterday. M

is it at a point where you need to sit down with your mom and have a hard conversation about the financial realities?

So, I have about six months ago and I've been keeping up. I told her six months ago I plan on moving out in March. Okay.

Um and she hasn't really done any much

action towards like figuring out another situation. So, I don't know like if I should just stay and keep helping so that we can stay they can stay in their house or if I should just go on and you know put my oxygen mask on before theirs, you know.

Man, well, I just feel like Max that I mean you've put yourself in a caretaker's role at 19, you know what I mean? Um for and it's and it's heroic,

right? In one sense. I mean, you've really stepped up and helped your mom, but this will be your whole life unless

something else changes. And I feel like that's unfair to you in your life, in your future family. Um, to feel like you

have to be the one to carry this burden.

And and I understand obviously why that is, but long term, I just don't think it's it's fair for you to play this role.

I Yeah, I think I've I've come to a similar conclusion. And I just feel like I'm I'm like sure what like what Yeah.

What do you do? Does your mom like lose the house with your two little sisters?

Right. Yeah. And then it's like where do they go? We have family here and I'm sure they could move in with my grandparents or something. But hold on, hold on. Your mom also plays an integral part of this. If you told me, hey, my mom really struggles with addiction and my mom struggles with some mental emotional health disorders. Then I would tell you like, man, life handed you a mess and this is it might be a season,

right? It may be that you're going to stay at home for a few years and see these these young girls until they get older, right? That's not the case. Your mom's making some choices on a daily basis as to where she's going to work and how much money she's going to make and what she's going to ask of her 19-year-old son.

And so, you're making decisions for an adult. And that's not your job.

your job is, unfortunately, you've been cast in the role to make sure your 11-year-old little sisters have food and water, which is never your job, but here we are, right? And so, man, you're you're a you're a man of noble character.

But I want you to hear what Rachel's saying. Five years from now, what would be better for you to have started pool

cleaning and also gone to get a couple of community college classes on the side? and five years from now, you've got an associates degree and now you've got four employees of your own and you're making $200,000 or you're still making $50,000.

This guy had to lay you off because business got slow and now you're making $35,000 and you're in the same bedroom in the same house and except you're 24 years old.

Like if you think on a on a longer time horizon, what's the best thing you can do for your family? It might be to go uh

spread your wings and fly.

I think I think so, too. I think I just needed some like I didn't feel like I was crazy or leaving. No, you're not crazy. You're going to feel guilty cuz it sounds unkind, right? You're going to feel guilty. Yeah. Like it sounds like, oh my gosh, I'm abandoning my family. But what

I want to relieve you of is that was never supposed to be your role. And like John said, if there was like a dire situation of something, um, that's another conversation. But, but yeah, I mean, like it's it's it's a it's a grownup problem that your mom, who has two daughters at home, should be the one calling the show and saying, "I can't pay my bills. What do I need?

What can I do?" Um, and looking at her budget and all of that. And I think you can help guide that, Max. But you can't even change the way she handles money either because you don't have that ability. We don't have the ability to change people.

Here's where I think you can get some peace in this transaction. Okay, number one, you're going to feel guilty. Just know that's coming. Okay, you may have heard me say this on the show.

Choose guilt over resentment every time. If you just stay there and wither, you're going to resent your mom, and that's not fair to her. So, choose guilt.

down and tell your mom, "For 6 months, I'm going to send $1,000 home. I'm going to send $750 home." And make sure that

everybody's clear on when this money is coming. And give her a ramp. You'll sleep a little better at night, I think, and it's going to be not a just a cut off, but it will be a a peaceful

departure. I'm sorry, my brother. Let us know if we can help. Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade Warshaw. And look, if there's anybody who knows about student loan debt, it's me. My husband and I had

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Go to laurelroad.com/ramsey to find out more about student loan refinancing.

laurelroad.com/ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsy Show. The question of the day

comes from why refi. the Ramsay Show. Uh

this is one of our new sponsors which we we love because if you are in default with private student loans, you need to contact Y refi. And obviously we don't encourage letting your go your loans go into default. We teach responsibility, but these amounts have some of you struggling and there is a way forward.

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situation. So go to yrefi.com/ramsey. That's the letter Y

refy.com/ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Justin in Virginia. Justin writes, "How can I stop being jealous of how much my siblings and in-laws earn?

My wife and I have no debt and a really good household income. We're happy in our careers. We're not missing out on anything due to how much we earn. I just can't figure out how to not be so triggered and frustrated by other people's income. Wow, it's a very

self-aware question. Very interesting.

Yes. Yeah. What do you think, Rachel?

Um gosh, and I'm curious how he I wonder if he knows the actual number of the income or if he is making up a story in his head that they're making a ton because of how they're living. Gotcha. Because lifestyle and income are obviously two different things. Um, so I'd be curious on that. What's causing you to think that they're earning more? Is it because of how they live their life? And kind of

the sucky part is when you live your life responsibly for a season, it's not going to look flashy. Eventually, you'll start to build wealth and you can enjoy it. But there is kind of that season of of grounding, which is where you guys are. Um, but if you know the number and

you're like, "Oh, no, they make half a million or whatever crazy a year."

Um, I mean, I I have learned, John, when

moments like that come up for me, and it's not income necessarily. It could be, but I don't I don't hear people's income a lot. But a situation that they're experiencing something that I want to experience, as much as I can muster up just celebrating them, it's amazing how that fades quickly where the eyes off are off of me, my eyes are off of me, and you can just be excited for somebody, right? Genuinely. And it

doesn't always come easy, I don't think.

But when you can just be happy for them and hopefully maybe they're in a great career that's helping other people or something. I don't know that you can find like the silver lining in what they're doing and being excited. But the fact that you're being triggered constantly, I I'm I'm wondering um you

know, your level of contentment is is obviously not fully baked, right? Yeah.

I' I have found that I always want to

pull the string that's attached to that story. And somewhere in Justin's heart and mind, the dollar amount that you earn every year is attached to value, how much you're worth. Yep. Yep. And somebody told you that somewhere and I found it helpful to get to the like where did that story come from? Oh,

dad used to tell older brother how great he was because he made $6 an hour. I only made $5. Like whatever that story is. Yeah. But the other thing is I think you're right. I think Justin would be pretty cool to out of the blue write your siblings a letter and just say I just need you to know I'm so proud of you. I see how hard you're working and I see what an amazing and instead of when

you feel that jealousy, our tendency is to pull away instead of go towards that

person to celebrate them. and our bodies

have a way of of adjusting for that proximity like we're we're in support and it just over time realizes I don't have to we're not in competition I don't have to fight you I have a great life one other quick thing often when you are

creating a life um I'll say it like this

that is less alive when you are in a we

go to work we make this much money we have this couch we have this house we have this car we are supposed to be happy here. Mhm. It's easy to put your eyes up and start looking for what other people have that you don't. And it often

over the course of my life when I found myself jealous in certain places, it has often brought me and my wife back to the table to say, what life are we creating for ourselves? And where do we find

excitement and aliveness and adventure and um joy in our home? Because it's not

it I'm starting to look for other places. Yes. Right. And it almost always comes back to we've become co-managers of our house. Such a great that's a good point. The stagnant like being stagnant

in life and I think we've gone through season of that of that. You look up and you're like oh my gosh we've just been doing the same thing and there's not as much laughter or joy or levity right now. That's right. That's right.

But when you say no, we're putting the phones away. We're doing family game night and we're going to do this stupid game that's so silly, but everyone ends up laughing. Right. You just do these things.

Um and they don't have to be expensive. I gosh, it was last break before the summer though. I think it was spring and we took all the kids and we went to a local high school like um parking lot randomly with bikes and they still talk about it. They're like, "Do you remember when we rode bikes in a parking lot?" And I was like, "You ride bikes all the time, but it was like this like I don't know, it was so like it was so small and insignificant, but to them, right, it brought this like other magic of like this new place or whatever it was for them." But it's those things and again, it doesn't have to cost money.

You don't have to go you don't have to go travel to Europe to do that. like find find it in your home. Um because gosh, we need it.

Especially this time of year with election season and everything. We're just like, "Oh my gosh, give me some levity and enjoyment with with the people that you love. Find those." But it's recognizing levity and joy. For 99% of us is a choice. Yeah.

There are people in abusive situations.

Yes. There are people who are deep poverty. Yes. There are people who are abjectly on the margins. Yes. But for most of us, we go home and we look at

our spouse and we choose what happens next. We choose how we respond. We choose our frustration. We choose to not pick up the trash, not put our clothes away. We choose to just watch TV, just sit there on our phones. All of those are choices. And that means we can choose something different. Yep. And so, Justin, I I challenge you to sit down with your wife and y'all reimagine your

life. And you might end up in the exact same space, but the exercise of reimagining it, what adventures do we want to create inside of our own home, even for no money? What does that look like? Totally.

It it can rearrange everything. And write your siblings a a letter, a handwritten letter how freaking proud of them you are. It's so cool. It's going to swallow some pride to do that, right?

When you're when you're in a state of or it opens your heart up and you realize it does, but but it's that takes a okay, I'm going to I'm going to celebrate something that is not always fun for me, right? But you start to learn it. So good.

Up next, we have Dan in Eugene, Oregon.

Hey, Dan. Welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel. Hey, John. How are you? We're doing great. How are you? I'm I'm uh

Oh, had a great number of years, I guess. Um my my question my question for you is how do I

calculate when I can feasibly retire and

or when I can start to plan a second

career and the the rough years is um I'm

about three years into being a widow widowerower. Oh, I'm sorry. Um thank

you. Um I have three kids. two of them

will go to college. I owe 380 on my

house. and and it it I sort of as I was

sort of looking at as I don't know I guess getting our lives back in order over the last number of years it it one

of the the Ramsay quotes of why don't they teach this stuff in school is of like you know how how do you even calculate right what what is the right

trajectory and now that I'm doing it

for alone one and two is for myself.

Mhm. It's a a loan, I guess I should

say, or as a single person. Sure. Yep.

How old are you, Dan? Um 48. 48. Okay.

Hey, Dan, before Rachel's going to walk you through the numbers of it, can I challenge you on something? Yeah. And

this might be a harder exercise than the the math problem.

Sure. But I would love for you to spend some time. And unfortunately, I don't know that you can do this with anybody other than just taking Dan out on a retreat. But I would love for you to figure out or ask yourself, what do you want it to feel like when you walk in your front door at the age of 55?

Yeah, it's because I want you to ask yourself, what kind of life do you want to have at 55? Because that's going to determine the math problem. Yeah, because I think when you get to the numbers really quick, Dan, we only have about 40 seconds, so I'm sorry for the short call. Um, it it's going to be looking at what do you have in retirement now and then averaging out, you know, average returns 10 to 12%, whatever that looks like, and knowing your lifestyle to to John's point, how much is it going to take to run your household at retirement and what is it going to look like to be able to to, you know, you have to calculate inflation and all of that.

Now, if you have not sat down with the Smart Investor Pro, I would do that. You can go to ramiesolutions.com and find one in your area cuz I want to be able to see all of your numbers, everything that you have in retirement, including this house and what's going to be the best bet to get you in a place. But again, it's it's lifestyle. It's return on the market and uh inflation that goes up every year is kind of the determining factor.

So, thanks for the call. Thanks to everyone in the booth, John. Thanks for a great hour.

[Music]

live from Nashville, Tennessee. This is the Ramsay Show where we talk about your money, your loves, your relationships,

and your life. I'm John Deloney, joined by number one bestselling author Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls on just about everything.

[Music] 8882552258255225. If you're joining us in the Ramsey Network app, welcome. We are glad you are here. Let's go out to Detroit Rock City and talk to Ken.

What's up, Ken?

Hey, how you guys doing, dude? We're rocking on to the break it down, brother. What's up? All right. I guess uh my question would be that um here in

Detroit, we yeah, I have a pretty good income, one income household, family with uh three kids, married, and it just

seems like living paycheck to paycheck, can't seem to get ahead. Um it just kind

of almost feel like we're struggling here. When you say pretty good income, I I found on this show some people think that means a million bucks and some people may think that means 40,000. What What's a pretty good income? Um we're we're at about 275 to 300k a year with

my income. Okay. In Detroit, right? Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. We we classify that as uh

pretty good or in the global sense um the top

of the top of the top teeny tiny percent of one. Yeah. So you're crushing. Um that's great.

So Ken, what's So you're saying that you feel like you guys are still living paycheck to paycheck even with this? Um have you guys dug into any numbers? Do you do you know why that this is happening? Yeah, I'm pretty I I I try to stay up on the numbers and and we got a lot of debt.

We got a lot of student debt. Um I went back to school for anesthesia, so I'm a nurse with this. Okay.

I'm right about 181,000 in student loan debt still.

Okay. What What other debt is there?

So, we got that. We owe 200,000 on the

house. 203,000. Okay. On the house. Um,

we at one point took out um a 401k loan

which we still owe 45,000 on. Okay. Um I

have a heliloc loan which another 17,000

on that. Okay. And about 20,000 in

credit cards. Okay. What about cars? Um,

cars. We have two leases. Um, they were both three-year leases. Um, one we still

owe 13,000 on and the other one we owe 10. How much a month are you guys paying those leases? How much are the payments?

One of the payments is 415 a month and the other one's about 460. About,000

bucks. Yeah. All right. Um, Rachel's going to walk you through this. Can I just Can I tell you something? I I've spent a lot of my career sitting behind closed doors with medical professionals.

And can I tell you, you're not crazy.

Is that cool? You're not nuts. I mean,

that helps. Here's what you've done.

You've done exactly what they told you to do. Yeah. Okay. Um they gave you some

um some some quippy things like cars are

depreciating assets. You never want to own them, so just lease them. you're going to buy new ones anyway. Um, you got to buy a house that looks like this because they can't take it away from you if you ever, you know, get in super trouble.

And hey, if you can make this money, but you got to go back to school, of course you do. And uh, and it just keeps going and going and you look up and you make, you know, a little over a quarter million dollars a year and you can't breathe and it doesn't make any sense.

Also, hear me say you can get out of like the path out of this is not difficult. It'll be It'll suck, but it's not hard, okay? But it's going to take two years of you deciding to live a

radically different life for just 24 months or so. Maybe 36 months, but I think 24 months given you can work extra shifts. And do you think you can clean this up and set an entirely new trajectory for your home? Because what your home doesn't have right now, you've got everything in your house. You don't have any peace. Yeah. Is that fair?

Yeah. No, that's that's that's correct.

Okay. If you if you and your wife can settle on that being the goal, not the cars, not the house, not if you settle on I want to walk in from work and I want everyone to be happy, then I'm here. I want to walk in from work with a smile on my face, not with my head slumped over. It's going to take about 24 rough months and you can get there.

Yeah. Okay. I just know too many people who are too many people in the medical profession who are dropping their kids off for college and they still have their own student loans. That's just madness, right? It's madness.

Those are my friends, by the way, bro.

Like, it's just it just is. So, you're not crazy. All right. Yeah.

And Ken, I think y'all's situation, too. It it is the perfect picture of just like this lifestyle creep, right? I'm like, you're just you just a little bit here, a little bit there, add a car, go on vacation, go out to like we're just making good money because you're bringing home probably what 28,000 a month or so. Yeah.

I mean, and it depends, too, cuz I can I mean, that that's with a little bit of overtime, but consistent. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

But you look at that just your monthly take-home and you're like, man, it it you know what I mean? Like there's there's a lot you can do with it. But also, like John's saying, the normalization of like, yeah, but we could spend that. I mean, you know, it's it's the classic idea that your income is not the issue for most people.

It is your money habits and the way that you handle your money. And so that magnification is exactly what you guys are experiencing. So, it's like, yeah, we'll get two nice cars. we'll do this, we'll get a little bit more debt and it's just payment, payment, payment, payment, payment, payment.

So, clearing all of it up, I think, is key. And I think you and your wife sitting down just as a experiment and

just say, "What if we made a hundred grand, which again is above the average

household income that is 80 grand?

Nobody's starving." So even a fun, you know, even more of a fun exercise, just put 80 grand and say, "Okay, if we brought in 80 grand a year, what it

comes out to per month, how how can we live on that?" Like live on that and then extra from that of what you actually bring in is going to be thrown at the debt or whatever it looks like. just, you know, I think it's always a fun experiment for married couples to sit down and do this, like play the income game and just see how much can we actually, if we had to do this, how much what would our life look like if we had to live on 60 grand a year, on 50 grand a year, on 70 grand a year.

And then the great thing about you, Ken, is that's not what you guys are making. So, the margin is there. It's just the choice of lifestyle. And so, um, getting your lifestyle wrapped and under control is going to be number one.

And it is going to feel like a shock because it's not going to be going out to eat.

It's going to be I mean, you're going to be living right like you're making 70 to

80. And that's how you're going to clean it up. You're not going to clean it up by just kind of here and there. Eh, we'll just we'll kind of do it, but we're still going to go we're going to still go on vacation. We're still going to go out to the nice, you know, date nights that we want and drop 200 bucks.

Like, you can't do that. Like, if you're going to do this, you have to radically do it. And so you and your wife sitting down and saying, "Okay, here's our budget for the next two years and mapping that out and mapping out your lifestyle and then from there starting to pay off these debts, smallest to largest." And what's wild again about that income coming in, I'm like, you know, you guys could clean up the heliloc in two to three months. You could clean up all the credit card debt in two to three months.

I mean, like you can make a lot of really big progress, Ken, if you guys decide to do it. And then the hope on the other end, we always talk about you live like no one else. It's not gonna be fun, but you guys can do this.

can do whatever you want. Yeah, you can do whatever you want. Now you get to do whatever you want. But I would see, you know, talk to uh the car company and look at your leases.

leases are always a little bit more confusing of the buyout and everything, but if you can get out of those, I mean, just do what you can to dwindle down this debt like as fast as possible, Ken. And you guys will see the progress. It's just going to be up to you all if you want to really do this. But the math is there.

It's going to work. Math is easy. And you're going to take every shift. You're going to miss little league games.

You're going to do whatever it takes for 24 months and make a crap ton of money and pay this off are free forever. This is the Ramsay Show. Hey, technology has changed a lot in the last 30 years. Now, the hot topic is AI.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Home ownership is something that's we believe

should be part of your financial plan, but it's really hard these days. The price of houses in the housing market, it is absolutely insane. But when you do

it the right way, when you buy a home the right way, that it brings you peace.

It's not a burden. It is a blessing. And so if you are looking to sell your home or purchase a home the right way the way we teach, you want to make sure to check out some top agents in your area that we trust. These are Ramsay trusted agents.

They have years of experience that will help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, marketing, and making or choosing the right offer for your home. So, to find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free, go to

ramseysolutions.com/agent and check them out. All right, up next we have Scott in Pittsburgh. Hey, Scott. Welcome to the show.

Uh, hi. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

Yeah, I've loaned $80,000 to my cousin for his house flipping business through multiple notorized promisory notes over the last four years. I've received that $80,000 back, but none of the $45,000 in interest. Uh my cousin recently informed me that his business is in trouble. He lives four hours away, has four kids, a rocky marriage, and other debt.

So, he's not rich to say the least.

And I sought some legal counsel and all of the notes uh have a confession to judgement clause. So, legally uh we're good uh even to not go to court to get a judgment. So, that's in my favor. favor.

Um, that side of the family has a lot of crazy in it to the extent that one individual is a little crazy, a little dangerous to be around. Uh, personally, my wife and I are in baby step seven. We have four kids, two high stress jobs, an extremely active social life in our church. So, part of me says just let this go and go focus on your life, but another part of me says go get the money that you've you've earned in interest.

Uh, especially since he won't call you back. Uh, I feel like I've let my wife down on this decision. Uh, even though we haven't really lost any money. So, I'm just wondering what path should I go down and how do I emotionally accept that path?

One time. Um, well, I won't I won't tell

that story. That's a personal story. Um, I Scott, walk away.

Walk away. Um, and I think the the making peace is making peace with yourself because you knew this was a a real possibility before you did this.

Yep. And you tried to cover yourself with a bunch of legal paperwork and you had a family member that you probably kind of deep down knew was going to do this looked at you and said, "I'm not doing that." And I don't think you let anybody down. I think it's a story you're telling yourself to kind of cover over the fact that you kind of feel like you got what you knew was probably going to happen. And so I'd make peace with it.

All right. Thank you. I mean, does that does that feel right?

It does. it it's kind of where I thought I was, but the whole like just not calling and texting back after like a 4-year relationship where we had a great back and forth and, you know, money was exchanged both ways and um things felt very comfortable and then, you know, all of a sudden it was just like, okay, it's it's gone. And but that means you're going to try to go get your interest because you're mad. Don't do that. Yeah.

Don't do that. Yeah. And it's it's one of those things um not to say I told you so, but we always tell people even if you got it and even if you're close, don't borrow money because it changes the relationship. And now there's there's something wedged between you and it's shame and that's really hard to

overcome. And so even if you send him a handwritten letter that just say your debts forgiven I wish you the best and go on about your life.

Yeah. I know. And the story I'm playing in my head, Scott, I could be wrong is he's probably panicking, right? I mean, he he has four kids.

He has Yeah. I mean, he's he's he's fearful. I mean, he his fear, you know, radar is up all the way and he probably can't even emotionally in the fact, you know, go there. The fact that you're family, too, that adds a whole other dynamic.

Or the one guy he went to for help, he can't even do that anymore because he's there's 45,000 bucks between the two of you. Yeah. And I And I know there's probably some justice in you, Scott, even the way you laid out the question. You're mad.

Yeah. I can tell that you're Yeah. You're pissed. You're like, man, this is this isn't fair, right?

I not getting it right? But but I think John's right. I think there is a kind of a a humble pill to swallow to say, okay, I'm going to I want to move above my move along with my life because you can, right? Financially speaking, you guys are on baby step seven.

You are you're fine. Is this the quote unquote like justice play? It's not. the justice play would be to take him to court and continue to ring out, you know, the money that he doesn't have and take his family through.

And in the end, I don't know if that's worth $45,000 of your time and your energy and your mental capacity.

Yeah, agreed. I I would say we didn't have a whole lot of relationship even, you know, even before that. Um, considering like we were just four hours away. Uh, not, you know, strong relationship. Um, but it's it's just a

strange situation um because of how how

great things were going for four years and even um talking together about projects that he was working on and um and then it's just like all gone. Like do you know what happened to his business? I'm just curious if if he just did bad deals or what. Uh same story

that Dave always talks to, right? He had a partner the partner skipped town. The whole business was on him and he couldn't he couldn't keep the whole business afloat. So, um, you know, went

from being very profitable, um, over four years to, you know, taking a step back over the last like 18 months or so.

Yeah. Yeah. Send him send him a letter that just says, "Hey, brother, you're freed. I'm tearing up the promisary notes." And I wish you the best.

All right. And I think I think you'll feel a weight off your shoulders. And by the way, next time you you'll you'll feel you'll feel

that sense of injustice. And it's right.

Um, so you're not crazy. There's nothing wrong with you or whatever. Like, you'll get that little angry moments every now and then, but you got your money back.

Count your blessings. Yeah. Um, and yeah, let's walk away. So, sorry. All right, John. I'm going to take a question from the Ramsey Network app.

Those of you that are listening, and uh, this question is one again, when you do this, you don't have to call in. You just click the link in the show notes and download the app for free, which you guys have done because you're listening there. Um but this question is I determined my why statement is to help

people heal so that they can be free and

this has become a motivation for a career change to become a mental health counselor. That would mean adding $40,000 to my current undergrad debt of

$40,000. So the original was $110,000.

What is your recommendation for funding a master's in mental health counseling?

Oh man. Are mental health professionals sitting to my right?

Yeah. I I guess they'll teach you in

counseling one of the core tenants is you can't give what you don't have. So if your if your heart is to help people heal so that they may be free and in order to do

that you chain yourself to a student loan company for another five or 10 or

15 years.

um you're you're going to end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. And so I'm going to tell you, you can help people heal um in

your job as a school teacher. You can help people heal in your job as a I'll

tell you this. I got to my hotel last night. I was in Pittsburgh. I got to my hotel really, really late and the woman checking us in was a saint. Just one of

those people that you're around and your heart rate just goes down. And she was so kind and I was a she was a gift. She was a cup of cold water in the desert after just a long long day. Yeah. And so you

can help people heal on the job site when y'all are pouring concrete. So this idea that you have to be a licensed mental health professional and you have to go into $40,000 of student loan debt on top of the 40 you already have out there. Um that's just unwise. And I had

a I had a um a graduate adviser that says if you are sitting in a clinical chair and you don't know how you're going to pay your bills, you cannot sit across from somebody and say I can help you cuz you're not whole. Interesting.

So what does that mean? That means get

this 40 grand paid off as soon as possible. uh see if you can find some side work working in or around counseling offices or social work offices or in children's homes or in

boys ranches or things like that where you can work with people. Make sure this is what you want to do and then get a job at a local university as a housing director or something and they will pay for your graduate degree. But don't add don't double your debt load um in order

to do this one particular job when you can help people heal in a number of different capacities. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, you've heard me say it a thousand times and I'm going to keep saying it. You're worth being well. And listen, therapy

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Help.com/ramyradio. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney joined by Rachel Cruz. Let's go out to Albany, New York, and talk to Jessica. Hey Jessica, what's going on?

Hi, how's it going? So, I'm calling because I have a whole life insurance

policy that I've been holding on to since 2012. And now I'm thinking hearing Dave

and you guys and hearing that the hole is garbage and that I should switch the term, but I'm not sure about the tax implications and stuff like that. I just don't really know what to do with a life insurance policy from here on out. Okay.

Have you looked into what the payout will be when you if you dissolve it?

Um, so it says the cash value is 8

grand.

Okay. And of your money back to

you. That drives me crazy. Yeah. Um, and

have you looked into term at all to make

sure that you you I mean you're are you healthy, Jessica? Like like you could probably get another insurance. Okay.

I'm going to be 39 in. I'm 39 now. I'm going to be 40 next year. So, I'm kind of like, do I hold on to it? I have two little ones. Um, my husband's the

primary beneficiary, but my oldest daughter is the contingent. And I'm

like, do I hold on to this? I already called the company and asked them if I should, you know, if I could switch it from whole to term. And of course, they said, no. Well, you could cash it out and then get a term insurance policy with us.

And I'm like, I don't know what the tax implications are, anything, or if it would be worth it to do that or if I should just hold on to because it looks like it is it's gotten like $1,500 in the last year. Yeah. But it's it's your money according to the statements that Right.

They take your money back. You overpay them. They invest that money. They take a piece of the investment return and then they call you and like look what you have and it's a crappy return anyways.

So yeah. So, no, I would cancel it regardless of what the whatever the fees and tax implication is. I don't know what taxes are when you cash it out. It may be income.

It may be like a like a capital. It's 8,000 bucks. It's not very much money. So, I would I would pay the taxes on $25 a month.

So, I've been ignoring it for all this time. How much I'm listening to you guys. I'm like, "All right, I need to do something about this." Yeah.

55. 55.

Yeah. I'm a state worker. I make around 15 a year. So I wasn't really missing

it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. 55 bucks. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. So what I would don't want to be robbed slowly by the company either. Totally.

And that's what it ends up being when you're pairing an investment and insurance together. You're always going to get a crappy product. Usually on both sides, but for sure on the investment side. So um so yeah, I would cancel it for sure today, but before well before you cancel it, I should say make sure you have term in place because I do want you to have life insurance.

You guys have two little kids. Um, so I would still have life insurance. And so you do work. Is that what you said?

Outside the home? Yeah. Okay. So I would get a policy 10 to 12 times your annual income.

And that's about that's around the policy that you would need. And I would go to Xander. You can go to Xander.com or give them a call. Xander Insurance.

And they're great because they're a more they're they're a insurance broker.

So, that's what I would do. And then I would go ahead and apply and get that coverage going first. And the day that goes into place, the the term policy, then I would call Whole Life, cancel it, get your eight grand to move on.

Gotcha. All right. And then um Okay. So

you said 10 to 12 month um months for my

10 to 12 times my life insurance policy.

10 to 12 times 10 times your annual income that I if you if you make 50 grand yeah I would get a policy at a minimum of 500 grand which should not cost you very much money a year.

Okay. It won't be it won't be a huge cost. And by the way um this isn't just us pitching a product. When I was 40 maybe 40 or 41. I understand I did the exact thing you're doing. I called Xander and got my insurance moved over like to them with term and it's it's fantastic.

Gotcha. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. I just want

to say also God bless you guys and thank you for the work that you do. Oh, thank you so much. You are you're super kind and yeah that like Rachel I hear that a lot on like what's the taxes going to be? It's eight grand just pay the taxes and move on with your life for whatever it is. Yeah. Because if you have $8 million well let's start worrying about the tax implications. Totally. Yeah.

Yeah. when you start looking at, you know, $55 a month and it may feel like, oh, that's, you know, no big deal, but over time what it adds up and then what you end up paying for term is a fraction of that anyways. Um, and always, again,

the rule of thumb is your insurance and your investments should never be mixed, right? Um, because you're not going to get the rate of return that you could if you put it, you know, even in in an index fund or Vanguard or the or the market, right? Um, yeah, in any other place, you're going to get a better rate of return. And a lot of these too, I'm like they just um it's that slow leak that they just continue just to like take and take and if it goes up, it just goes up and you know what I mean?

feel clean whole life. There's there's some entanglements there that there's mixed priorities there, right? Let's go out to Spokane, Washington, and talk to Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth. What's happening?

Hey guys, how are you? Awesome. We're running a scam called a YouTube show and a podcast. What are you up to?

Ah, I love it. I watch you guys all the time. Very cool. What's up?

Uh, not much. I was just hoping to get your guys' advice. Um, we are pretty

good, but we're not as good as we could be. Um, I feel like we're still struggling monthto months kind of like paycheck to paycheck.

And how do we get ahead? How do we start

like invest saving? like we have three kids. I homeschool. There's we're a one inome household. Um and the economy is kind of

killing us. Yeah. So, here's here's the hard the hard truth. You and me and your spouse and my

wife and Rachel and Winston, all of us

go home as a family and we make choices.

And that's not how it was set up for us.

We all grew up and they're like, "Dude, if you just go to college or just do this and you can do this and this and this and this and this." And sometimes

like the dream of we want we want mom to

stay at home. Awesome. We want to not get into the schools. We want to homeschool our kids. Cool. But we can't eat or we we're just floating month to month to month. And it's you guys as a family having to back out of that situation and say, "Okay, the price of milk is bananas right now. The price of bananas is bananas right now." Right.

And so it is um my two youngest are not

school age. So if I went back to work, we'd have to pay for daycare. Well, yeah. I don't think you say I don't think you're saying go back to work. I'm not saying you go back to work. I'm saying everybody makes choices. So So Elizabeth, I want to know you guys. Um financially, where are you guys at? Do you guys have consumer debt?

Uh no, we have credit cards. We don't use them. They are zero balance. Um we own our cars and all our vehicles. How much does your husband make a year? uh about 65. Okay. And are you guys on a

written plan like a very detailed budget every single month that you know exactly here's the amount we have to spend. Okay. I think Okay. So, I think the budget need to do that. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. No, no, it's fine. Um, I mean, I think that's going to help a lot. And if you stay on the line after this call, Christian will pick up and we'll give you every dollar premium for a year because I think the budget, it's one of those places, Elizabeth, that once you do it and you actually have boundaries around certain categories in your life and you force yourself to live within them, then suddenly you're like, "Oh, there's our margin. There's our margin.

It's not getting eaten up by that extra, you know, fast food run that we're going to go do or out to eat or whatever." Like, it's it is amazing when you do plan out and stick to that plan. It's going to take about 3 months for you guys to get it to work. So remember that 90 days, give yourself a lot of grace between now and Christmas. But I want that to be your homework to say, "Okay, we're going to we're going to sit down and do this." And then um out of that and finding some margin and and you'll look back on your uh accounts and your checking account last month and be like, "Oh my gosh, we're paying for two subscriptions we never used.

We you know, like when you actually start getting in the weeds of it, it is amazing what comes to the surface." Um and even if it's 30, 40 bucks here or there, that you know, that adds up.

I mean, that that will get you some margin. And so, do you guys have um do you guys have an emergency fund? Oh, I

just Hold on one second. There you go. Oh, that was fine. Okay. So, Elizabeth, I would mess up the phone here. There you go. There you go. There you go. Do you guys have an emergency fund, Elizabeth? Do you have any savings? We do not have a specific emergency fund.

We've got a a decent amount in our

checking account. Okay. So, what I would do is is open up a high yield savings and I would move 3 to 6 months of expenses out of your checking out to that and then that's not touched. So, that's your emergency fund.

If you have to have a few months to add to that savings to get that 3 to 6 months, do it. And then from there, I would start investing 15% of your income into retirement and start that going. That can be through his 401k or Roth IRA you guys can open up. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's.

your budget because it always goes up,

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[Music] Welcome back. 88 8255225. This is the Ramsay Show. Let's go out to Kimberly in Seattle, Washington. Hey, Kimberly. What's up?

Hey, are you still there? We're here.

How's it going? How can we help? Good.

Um, well, not good, but um maybe you can help help me out some suggestions. Uh my husband just uh like about a week ago

was uh take went to the hospital and was

diagnosed with um

uh basically uh liver his liver is shot.

He it's beyond repair. Uh they gave him

maybe a year year and a half to live. Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Yeah. He's Yeah.

and he struggled with alcohol, you know, addiction off and on over the years. And

he kne, you know, he said, "I knew that this was probably going to happen, but you know, when you're addicted, you're addicted and it's hard to stop something." Yeah. So, anyway, our situation right now is um he

uh he's working or trying to work

because he doesn't feel well. And

um I've been doing the best I can to do Ramsay stuff without him not being um on

board, which means not very much. Uh

anyway, I have questions here

um as to what we should do because this

freight train is moving. Um

moving forward. Do you guys have kids?

We have adult kids who are doing really well. Okay. Okay. Off on their own.

We're They're amazing. How old are you guys? Um uh I just turned I'm I'm just turned

60. He's a few years younger than me.

Three years younger than me. Okay. Um anyway, and in fact, I just worked a I had a hospital bill. I worked at a took a grinding job to pay that the balance

off because of insufficient you know insurance and just

got it done. So here we are with another hurdle. Um so I'm looking at we do own

our own house but um because I haven't

been had access you know I haven't had access to the funding I wanted to do to

keep up on it. It needs exterior repairs that are fairly expensive. Um as in uh roof, gutters, um

some siding, and then paint after that. Um it's an amazing house. It's in

really good condition, but that would have to be done if we were to possibly sell and downsize. Um if that would be

one of the options we should consider. I don't know. Okay. We have a lot of stuff sitting around that, um, my other half

cannot get rid of anything ever. So, um,

getting those, you know, options for getting those things sold and how to approach him on that. Um, we'd have to

have somebody come and remove Kimberly, let me let me hop in here. The the Yes, please.

you've gone directly and you've and and quite honestly if you've been if you've been married to somebody who's struggling with alcohol for a long time, you have been responding to crisis after crisis and thing after thing forever, right? Amen. And then so the way you

said this, I want to challenge you on it. Well, and now we got another hurdle.

This is not just another hurdle.

No, it's big. It's the stop sign, I think, right? Yes. And so you have been

working with somebody for a long

time. Everything in this conversation has changed now. And the conversation changed to changes to now we have a an hourglass.

We have a clock that's ticking and the doctors clicked it on for us. And so we're not talking about how you feel. If

you really like this collection of bottle caps you've been keeping for for like that that ship is over. That ship has sailed out to harbor. We are now

creating a life that I'm going to have to inhabit because you're going to be gone.

Yeah. And that looks like making sure I got a home with four walls on it and I

can pay bills.

Mhm. Right.

And some of it you're going to I I I remember sitting with um um somebody that I care about deeply and I was helping them and their house was full of stuff and I was trying to help them throw that throw it away. This is several years ago. And I just finally stopped and looked at him and said, "I need you to hear me say this. When you die, I'm going to throw

all of this away. I can do it now or I

can do it when you're gone." And there was a long, long pause and they said, "You're gonna have to do it when I'm gone." And I said, 'Okay, I'm moving on with my day. I'm not going to spend another second here. I've already made that choice, but I'm not going to fight that in this moment. See what I'm saying? So, I want you to He was not

even used to that idea yet. It hadn't even been introduced. Right. Right. I want So, here's here's what we're doing. We're reverse engineering this thing for the four walls. I I I hate to live like this, but

this is the clock you've been given. I want to go 18 months and start working backwards.

What does life look like?

And you don't have to do a roof and siding and gut. You don't have to do all that at the same time. We're going to price each one of those things out. These things that we have to do so we can keep our house. These things that we have to do so we have transportation. Um you're going to have to have a job if you don't have any retirement. Yeah.

What's the What's the financial um

status, Kimberly? Do you guys I know you said you own your home outright, so there's no mortgage or anything on it, correct? Yeah. Well, um I was, you know,

in the earlier days, I was working to, you know, pay a little extra here and there because I'm the, you know, I'm the one that doesn't want to be in horrendous debt, a debt of any kind, actually. And um he used to work a very

uh a very good job and part of it was um

an investment account um that was like a

retirement, right? and

um and he got to a point where he wanted

to start his own business. He'd always wanted to do this because his family had done it and they had done it poorly and they fought and they divorced, but it still is a dream of his. And so did he cash out the investments?

So over time, yes, he cashed out almost

everything that he threw into a business without knowing how to run a business.

Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. Kimberly, you're going to have to set that aside because you got an emergency in front of Yeah.

So, what um what debt What debt? I know.

No, no, you're fine. You're fine. What debt do you guys have? Any at all? Any

consumer debt? Credit cards, car loan?

No. Okay. We have no debt. No debt.

Okay. And how and how much money property taxes and things like that?

Okay. Are you working, Kimberly? Do you work? I I was in order to pay off my

hospital debt. Okay. Yeah. horrendously huge and I finally got that paid off and it but it was very hard. It was just a Okay. How how much physically? Okay.

Okay. So, not in a great position to work. Okay. What was he making a year?

No. What's he making now? Yes. Um to

keep you guys crap. I should know this. No, it's fine.

Um 30,000 70,000. Do you have any

rounds? Yeah. 30 something. 30 something. Okay. And that's And that's

okay. So, and any investments? Sorry, I know you said he cashed out his to start the business. Do you have Do you have any retirement? Okay. So, there's no investments, no retirement.

And does he does he have life insurance?

Nope. Nope. Okay. Okay.

So, what I want you to do, Kimberly, is the the the silver lining from a financial standpoint, all of this is you you guys have no debt. I mean, you don't even have a mortgage. So, it's you're So, that in in of itself is like that's a relief. So, what John was saying, the four walls, I want you to go and do a budget, Kimberly, and I want you to stay on the line and we're going to give you Financial Peace University and Every Dollar Premium because I want you to start budgeting and I want you to know to the penny.

Now, I do have Every Dollar already. Oh, you do? Okay. So, to know what Thank God for that.

glad because I think if you have those numbers in front of you of the things you have to do, you have to keep the lights on, the cell phone bill, and your

insurance. um you know, food, gas in the

car, you have all of that. And that's what you're going to have to look at, Kimberly, and say, "Okay, I have to at least make this, right? When the time comes, I have to I have to at least make this." And then I would not encourage you to sell the house or even to put in a ton of repairs right now. I think you're fine.

What I would do is I don't want to do that. Yeah. And I And I would And I wouldn't unless your roof is leaking or something, but like for now and then, Kimberly, when the time comes, I want you to grieve. I want you to go through that process.

And don't make a big financial decision until about 6 months to a year. And if in 2 years, 3 years you decide to sell the home and downgrade, take some of the equity, you can do that. But don't feel like you have to make these big decisions today. Today, I just want your four walls covered between now and 18 months.

I'm so sorry though.

That's the first hour in the books.

We'll be right back on the Ramsay Show.

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## 115. Money Turns Family Drama Into Financial Disaster | January 5, 2026


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:51:05 |

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This episode is filled with some of our best calls and advice, but unless you take what you hear and put it to work in your own life, you'll be stuck with the same money stress in 2026. So, make a change and download Every Dollar today.

[music]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you with your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, number one best-selling [music] author, Ramsay personality, and host of Front Row Seat,

one of our more popular Ramsay Network shows. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at8255225.

Jack is in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi Jack. How are you?

>> Doing well. Thank you Dave and Ken.

Thanks for taking the call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Yeah. So basically my grandfather had

passed [clears throat] away about five years ago and he had left a trust to his

three children. Um,

and basically the way it had been set up

is that after my father passed away, um,

I would receive a lump sum. Um, each of

those, uh, each sibling got a lump sum

payment from that trust. Um, however,

for my dad, he has been historically

been bad with money and it was set up

for him that he would receive payments

annually in the trust. Um, and then once

he passes away, I would receive the lumpsum. And after after this, he is

basically saying that he wants to

have me sign a document that releases

the trust to him. And he plans to spend

the money. And he's threatening me by

bribing bribing me with $5,000 upfront.

>> [clears throat] >> $5,000.

How much is in the trust?

>> From what I understand, whenever my grandfather was still around, um I

believe his portion is between 250 and

300,000.

>> So, you're going to trade he's asking you to trade $300,000 for 5,000 bucks.

From what it seems, he has said that he

wants to take that lump sum and he wants

to renovate his house because he is 63

years old. Um, he works as a lawyer and

he wants to renovate his house. He wants to buy a new car and he claims that I

will have the rest of the money.

However, with his historic run of

dealing with finances, I don't believe

that there will be any money left.

>> Hey, Jack. Hey, Jack. Quick question.

You've used two words with us. You said threatened and and bribe. What What does

that actually look like? I haven't heard any evidence of that.

>> I would say it's it's definitely more so bribing. um him just throwing out one

time he said the first time he said I'll

get you $10,000.

Then the second time we had talked about it he said that he would give me $5,000

upfront. Um >> okay. So what kind of I mean I'm I'm

sorry. It it's it's just u the math is

not mathing. I mean, he he's so

illogical that he actually believes you would trade 5,000 for 250.

That's just bizarre to me.

>> I totally agree. >> What planet does he live on that he thinks you would do that?

>> I don't know. >> I don't either. >> Okay. So, you're using words like bullied and bribed with your own father.

Irresponsible about your own father.

Your grandfather thought he was irresponsible. So, you're not going to do this? You had already decided that before you called, right?

>> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. >> So, how can we help you? >> However, >> yes. Um, I really just want to know how

to navigate that conversation with my father because >> Okay. You You want to know something that's impossible? It's impossible for you to take a man that is this unreasonable >> and make him reasonable with one conversation.

That's not possible. Okay. So th this

unreasonable man is going to have an unreasonable reaction to your reasonable

no.

There's no way you can frame a no that

this guy's going to like it

and he's going to go, "Oh, thank you, son. I just love you so much. I'm so proud of you." That's what you wish would happen. There's no conversation that does that because of what you're dealing with on the other side of this.

You know, it's like petting a crocodile and going, "Nice crocodile. Nice crocodile." And hoping you don't get your arm bit off. Of course, you're going to get your arm bit off. It's a crocodile.

So, you know, that's what we're dealing with. So, I I I wish I could make this

make you have a good dad, but you don't.

And so what I can do is just give you the real the real realistic expectation which is you preserve your dignity, your

courage, your kindness, your integrity.

That's the only thing you have control over. You don't have control over his reaction.

So you gently and kindly say, "Dad, grandpa put this in place and I'm just going to abide by grandpa's wishes.

Thanks for asking. I'm sorry it doesn't work for me and we're just going to leave the thing set up like it is. But thanks for asking. I I hope you can find another way to get your house renovated and get you a car since you're a lawyer and all. But and I'll be cheering for you cuz I love you and and he's still going to go bonkers, isn't he?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So 100% be expecting that.

Anything less than bonkers, we'll call it gravy on the biscuit. We'll call it a bonus. But I'm counting on bonkers.

Yeah, I Jack, I don't know if you've ever had surgery before, but I would say that your mindset here has got to be uh the same as going into surgery that you have to have. It's not fun. It's going to hurt. It's going to be some recovery time, but it absolutely has to happen.

And on the other side of the surgery, you're going to be better off >> and there can be healing. >> That's right. And I think you have to go into this going, there's just no way. I think Dave framed it beautifully, but as a response to what Dave said, you've got to understand this is one of those situations in life that was forced on you.

You cannot control your dad or the situation he's put you in, but you got to do what's best for you. So, that's the mindset. There's no way this is not going to suck. But on the other side, you're going to be better.

>> Anytime you're setting a boundary with a boundaryless person, less is more.

Okay? We're not going into a bunch of explanation or discussion of his character or the history of the family tree. We're not going to try to explain this to him. We're not going to go into a bunch of detail. It's a simple thing.

Dad, you know, I love you and I've thought about this and I I think I'm just going to stick with grandpa's plan and that's what we're going to do. So, I hope it works out for you and I'll be cheering for you.

and just that that that's what 10 seconds maybe of audio and that's all

you need. The longer you talk, the more

you're going to mess this up. So, I use

that when over 35 years now of running a business on in the rare occasion that we actually have to let someone leave this place, we don't have long discussions.

We've had long discussions up to that point trying to get them better. But the day they leave, it's like the decision has been made. Today is your last day.

That's it. We don't go into why cuz why's been discussed in the 90 days previous

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[music]

[music]

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality bestselling author is my co-host today.

Seattle is on the line. Jeremy is calling. Hi Jeremy. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. Hey, I um just started your book this last month with my wife. We are on baby step number two. Um, and to long

story short, we basically borrowed some money from a family member, my father-in-law and mother-in-law about a year and a half ago. Um, and we put a

manufactured home there, used the money for that. We're paying them back pretty quickly, it feels like. Um, made a dumb

decision again before I started your book and went out and bought a toy. And it's kind of putting some stress on our relationship with them. They're thinking we shouldn't be spending money when we owe them money. And I just wanted your advice on that.

>> What'd you buy?

>> Uh four-wheeler. >> Okay. What' you spend on the four-wheeler?

>> 6,000. And we financed it, >> but it's almost paid off now.

>> Mhm. Okay. And what do you owe them?

>> About 80,000.

>> O. So they loaned you the money to

be buy a >> house put a house >> manufactured >> a a trailer.

>> Yeah. Yes, sir. >> On their property.

>> Yes, sir.

>> So you have an $80,000 trailer and you don't own the dirt.

>> Correct.

>> Oh god. Okay.

Um.

Wow.

Um,

well, what are the terms? I mean, did did you have a payment system with them?

A certain amount you're supposed to pay them every month?

>> Yes. Yeah. And we've been paying that on time every time. Obviously, >> you were not Well, not obviously. I mean, you you you've never been late.

And yet, they expected that you would prepay them rather than do anything else. Why did they expect that?

>> You know, that's a good question.

Okay.

>> And you know, our thing is we have a pretty good relationship with them and things just kind of got awkward. So, >> do I sell the toy, take a loss, and move

on? Do I You're You're the expert. I

guess that's my question. >> Yeah. I'm curious to know if there was any pressure that you felt at any time or your wife felt at any time to a borrow 80 grand from them to then get a premod trailer and and put it on their property. Was there pressure there or was it just they threw it out and you guys love the idea?

>> So, basically we we sold our house and had some money set aside to do this project and it was just an idea that got thrown out there and nobody thought it would really work. uh we we were able to make it work and uh we were pretty excited about that. There wasn't too much pressure there. Um it will most

likely be it will be our property at some point. Um so that wasn't there

wasn't too much for us on on worrying with that.

>> Um >> okay. There's two layers to this

situation. The first layer is the simple four-wheeler question.

>> Okay. >> Yes, sir. on the simple four-wheeler question. I think you and your wife need to go over, ask them if you can come over and talk and have a cup of coffee and bring a pie.

>> And you just sit down and say, "Um, we

thought that we had a monthly payment

arrangement with you." And as long as we were doing that, we thought we were doing the right thing. Somehow there must have been more to the agreement than we understood >> because if we go on vacation, you're going to be mad. If we buy a four-wheeler, you're going to be mad.

But we didn't know that was part of the deal. And so we need to get on the same page about what our deal is cuz I thought our deal was I pay you monthly payments and you're happy. But now it's I pay you monthly payments and I have to check with you before I buy anything.

>> Mhm. And that's not a deal I'm okay with.

>> Yeah. >> Now, agreed. You shouldn't have bought a stupid four-wheeler in this situation.

Okay, that's aside. And you can say that I made a mistake. I shouldn't have bought the toy. But I'm trying to figure out what our boundaries are here so that I don't upset you again into the future

and basically call them out because they're out of line.

You did a stupid thing, but they don't have a right to be upset about it because you're kept your part of the deal. Yep. >> I'm telling you, sell this four-wheeler and get yourself out of debt with that money. Yeah, definitely do that.

But that not paying towards them. Okay, that's layer number one. That's the the easiest layer. Do you want me to get harder, Jeremy, or do you want me to leave you alone?

>> Nope. I want to hear it. >> Okay. You guys have made a colossal mess.

it's not going to turn out well, I'm afraid. Colossal rule number one is you never build a property. You never put $80,000 worth of collateral on someone else's dirt. I don't care whose dirt it is. Period. Because you do not have

control of the situation. If they are in a car wreck in the middle of the night, fall asleep at the wheel, and these sweet little people hit somebody head on, and they get sued for $200 million.

The dirt under your trailer is gone in that lawsuit. And they have no control over that, and you have no control over that. So, you have set yourself up. And I've seen this a thousand times in 30 years of doing what I do. Not owning the dirt under your trailer is a massive mistake. Number one, borrowing 80,000 from your in-laws for anything for any reason is a massive mistake. Number two,

the borrower is slave to the lender. And as you have figured out, masters change the rules sometimes.

You're the slave.

Rule number problem number three. You spent $80,000 on something that's going down in value, not up in value. Trailers

go down in value. They don't go up in value. So, in 15 years, what's this $80,000 trailer worth? Nothing.

You're burning $80,000 on your kitchen table every night, a little bit at a time. So, you got all a you got a massive entanglement of mess here. And I

don't know exactly how to get you out of that one as easy as I did the other one. This is not a cup of coffee and a pie.

Um uh so uh but if I'm in your shoes,

I'm going to start trying to unravel this thing if I can figure out a way to honorably do that. Uh I'm guessing the trailer won't bring 80 grand now, right?

>> No. >> Okay. What would it bring now?

>> Um it might get close. You know, there's there's not a lot of them around to get a good idea, but >> Okay. If you can if you can get out of it, I I would sell it and start fresh renting somewhere and give them their money back and keep you from owning an asset that's going down in value sitting on dirt that you don't own. Man, this is just it's you're playing Russian roulette and there's three bullets in the gun.

>> Not one. >> Yeah. I Dave, you you Yeah, he's been sufficiently burned. I'll offer some sav.

>> No, you're right. No, you you couldn't be more right. I just can't add anything to it other than to say this. uh walk away from this to realize it could have been way worse and this thing can get nastier if you don't fix it now. And I I could not say that enough. You can dig out of this, but I would start digging quickly and make all these changes and

uh you'll look back on this and go, I'm I'm glad I did it. It's it it's going to get worse. The relationship's going to get worse. The finances are going to get worse. Everything's going to get worse.

There's nothing in this story that turns out good. >> Yeah. It's it's it it's it's and and and the problem is to stop and say that out loud is like walking up in the middle of the town square and saying the emperor has no clothes. Everybody's going to look at you and go but wait your your wife's going to look at you their precious little daughter and go my daddy would Oh yes he did.

He already bitched about the four-wheeler. Of course he's going to do it. It's coming.

>> Okay. I already know what your daddy's going to do. I read his mail. Well, Dave, this makes me think of although the classic line in the wedding vows, leave and cleave. There is a psychological reason for doing that.

There's wisdom in that phrase and not living on their land. >> Well, mom and dad have got some money and they've got some land and they were trying to do something nice and they did a good thing in a dumb way.

>> Yeah, that's a great way of putting it. >> You know, how could you do this differently? All right, I'll tell you how you could do it differently. You carve up your property. You put a property line on it and you give a parcel of it to your daughter. And if you want her to have an $80,000 property, have her build something on there that will go up in value and give her $80,000 of your money. Don't loan it to her and make her your slave and change the quality of your relationship.

Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master.

It changes the relationship. And you're not the exception. No one, none of you out there. So, mom and dad's quit doing a nice thing, a good thing, a bad way,

and causing more problems than you were blessings. Yeah, that's right. >> That's Oh, poor Jeremy. I'm sorry, Jeremy, but [music] you called and you asked. This is the Ramsey Show.

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>> The Ramsey question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you've made student loan mistakes with zeros on the end, hey, we're not judging you. We are saying do something about it. Contact Yi. They were created specifically for

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Mary in New Mexico.

My husband and I have been listening to you for 30 years. Being empty nesters now, we have found that we had to pull back the reinss a little bit. Went back to using an envelope for groceries. We also eliminated credit cards and mostly use cash. The one expense that my husband refuses to use cash for is golf

in all caps [laughter] with an exclamation point. He has been an avid golfer for 40 years. Being the main bread winner, he feels somewhat justified and deserving to continue this hobby. He never remembers what he spent, so we're constantly having to adjust for extra money that's coming out because he changes everything at the club and then we get an invoice. Could I please get your expert advice on dealing with this type of scenario? Well, u I was a member

of a local club for a while. Uh, we had thank one of the things I'm very thankful for, we had a corporate membership at a great golf course here and and Stacy and I had to put this in the line item and so um he's got to put

this uh in the budget and uh if it's not going to be cash because I understand the way these clubs do this, he knows what it costs to golf. He knows what it costs to get a cart if they adding that in. He knows what the taxes are on that.

He also knows what it costs for a Twix at the turn or a turkey sandwich. So these are things that are all very controllable and he's got to play ball and so you know you know what it costs to play golf beyond your membership or whatever. So he's got to put that in there and you guys got to come to an agreement on this is what we can spend as we're having to tighten up right now.

He doesn't have to give up golf but he's going to have to maybe cut back. So maybe that's rounds, maybe it's u a drink after the uh the round. Whatever it is, he's just got to be disciplined with it and it's pretty easy to track.

He's just not wanting to do it because he's never had to. That's my take, Dave.

I don't know what you think about that.

>> Well, there's a difference between continuing the hobby and um you know, she she wants him to quit. [laughter] >> I mean, this thing's dripping in I hate

golf language. Um >> yeah, the all caps give us away. Gives it away. >> And so, you know, there's a difference between he has a right to continue his hobby because he's the red winner. He says that's different argument than um hey, you know, you can't buy all the expensive stuff and play.

>> That's right. >> You know, because we're we're having to tighten up and so we're going to we can put a line item to this and we can manage it if he chooses to be responsible. There's a difference between choosing to be responsible and choosing to play golf. >> That's right. I mean, you can be irrespon you can be irresponsible, not bother with it, which is what he's doing. And so I I think step one for him

for you is not try to get him to quit.

Um it's try to get him to rein in the

additional um expenses whether you're buying food or drink or whatever he's doing while he's there. And uh you know what can we do to limit that and put a number on it that we're not going to go over. And um

that's very doable. Um it's very doable.

So, but I think there's more going on here than the uh [laughter]

golf capital letters all exclamation

points, right?

Is pretty much I hate golf wife language. I saw it, you know. So, >> no question about it. And and in his defense, you don't walk into the golf club with your cash envelope. It's it's

they >> Well, a lot of courses don't t I mean, if you're a member of something, they won't. No, >> they don't. You have to sign. >> Yeah, that's exactly choice. That's the only way to handle it. So, >> but it is trackable. >> But that doesn't mean you can't manage what you're spending and you should. So, he needs to be responsible and you probably need to light up on lighten up on the golf hating.

>> Sarah is in Detroit. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. Thank you.

>> What's up?

>> Well, I've got a question uh around an

EIDL business loan that was taken out.

an economic disaster relief loan in 2020

for a business that has since gone under due to the pandemic. I spoke with two attorneys. They both said I don't owe on the loan uh because it wasn't personally guaranteed and it was the name of a business that went under. But I am a

Christian and I'm I'm grateful for the blood of our Messiah. Hallelujah.

>> Amen. >> And God's law seems Amen. God's

blessings to um say differently. Um so

I'm going to negotiate with the SBA.

I've been given the paperwork to do that and I'm just wondering if you have any advice on how to negotiate and then depending on what that number is, how I should go about paying it.

>> You don't have the money?

>> Well, I don't I don't have the money for the whole loan. No, >> I How much is the whole loan?

>> How much is the whole loan? >> Okay. 25,000.

>> All right. And um $25,000.

>> Yeah. And I have 15. Well, actually it's 24. >> Okay. And you have how? And you have how much money?

>> 15,000. >> Okay. >> My emergency fund.

>> Okay.

Um

well, there's two two or three issues.

Okay. From an ethics standpoint, the

government gave you money for disaster

relief for your business that failed and it's not got a personal guarantee and you're not liable. The government forgives that. From an ethics standpoint, you are not doing anything wrong by just simply accepting the forgiveness because this is not a bank loan from a the bank is not going to get

tagged on this. if it's got an SBA label on it, the SBA is going to cover it. Um

because this is a government thing that

uh you know is waved in this instance.

Okay. So um you know another example

would be like if you have a federally insured student loan and you become permanently disabled, the terms of those loans are there forgiven if you're disabled.

uh you are not under an ethical Christian obligation to pay it anyway.

And the term of the loan was that it's

it's forgiven if you're disabled. The terms of the loan on this are it's not personally guaranteed because it was given to a business in the midst of a uh

a disaster relief situation and the

therefore they did not require personal guarantees because it was a it was virtually a grant is what it was and it didn't work. Obviously it did not turn your business around. So, um, I I'm gonna ask you to spend some time in prayer and make sure you're hearing from God, not childhood guilt, about what your Christian obligation is here. Um, if you feel like if you really feel like >> God is telling me to pay this, then for goodness sakes, pay it, >> right?

>> Okay. >> Not really.

I mean, I've been in those situations.

I've paid stuff that, you know, people look at me like I'm a nut for having gone back and paid that, but I just I felt like God said to do it. And then other times I don't feel any tinge of guilt at all. I'm just done. You know, I mean, this is a this is the deal. It's the way the deal went. Sorry. Good luck.

And that that's that's where this one could fall. But uh but I never step in between someone and the Holy Spirit.

That's a dangerous place to stand.

>> Yeah. I guess I should give you a little more context. I got to a point where, you know, I was three months default because I didn't feel like I did owe it.

You know, I don't lie. I do I do my best to follow God's law. Um, and I got on

the phone with the SBA and I learned everything that they do and how it wasn't personally guaranteed and it goes my information goes to the Department of Treasury >> after like they just right SBA lets it go. Department of Treasury gets my information. And then I started to feel like fear and I know that's not of God.

Um, and then I talked to my family and I

started to get advice just from other people and um, yeah, then I actually

they suggested I called you. So called [clears throat] your >> Well, I think you're telling me you're doing this out of a an emotional guilt trip, not out of a Holy Spirit leading.

I think that's what you just said.

Yeah, I think so.

>> I'm not sure. But again, I'm not going to stand between you and the Holy Spirit. If God tells you to do something, kiddo, you go do it. Um, you Dave does not get a trump card on that.

I don't get to lay down on that hand.

So, you got you got to figure that one out. But if you're just scared, nah, it's the government. Tell them to stick it. That's pretty easy for me. This is

the Ramsy Show.

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[music] Ken Coleman Ramsey personality number one bestselling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose is my co-host

today. Michael's in Atlanta. Hi Michael.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> How you doing Mr. Renzy >> better than I deserve. Sir, how can I help?

>> So, I just want to say appreciate everything you do for everybody. I grew up in a in a in an awesome family, awesome life and everything. And my two financial adviserss were Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey. So, I'm honored to be able to finally get her into a phase of life where I can make this phone call and uh and uh be a be able to talk to you.

So, I thank you for that. >> Well, thank you. We're honored to have you. How can we help?

>> By saying that I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Say it again. >> I said we're honored to have you.

How can we help? >> Yes, sir. So, I'm 27 years old and I work for a family business. My second job is an ice business and the owner is wanting to sell within the next next uh two years or so.

The sale will come with a building with existing tenants and the ice company itself. He's asking for $1 million.

vehicles and what we have in our savings and investments, uh, what do you think the best way that I can get a loan that big uh, for that for that size? Um, we

me and my wife currently are living at my parents house. Um, we have no form of

debt besides or thank thanks to you. No, no debt. We we worked hard to pay off all our student loans and credit card debt and everything. We do have one car loan right now that we're trying to knock out as quick as possible. Um but

like I said, no form of of assets or anything like that.

>> Um well, I I'm a little bit confused about the part where you listened to me for years and then you just asked me how you

can borrow a million dollars.

>> Right. Exactly. That's a little bit inconsistent, isn't it? I mean, you kind of know I don't do that, right?

>> Yes, it is. And and with the other previous callers, I was thinking I maybe

I should change the word from borrow to be able to obtain the business for that price. So, uh I do I do apologize. Let me back up. What is the best route for somebody in my shoes to be able to obtain the business?

>> Okay. Because you Well, I mean there's you don't have a million. No bank's going to loan you this. Okay.

like you said, you don't have the assets, you don't have the income, you're not bankable. A banker would >> just um it would take about a I don't know less than four or five seconds to make the decision. You're not going to get that.

that that was a good idea and we don't.

So the what I would do is the first thing I'd do is separate the business from the real estate.

>> Okay? >> Let him keep the real estate.

>> Good. and the business can be his tenant until you save up the money to buy the real estate later.

>> You could do that out of the business. So, what do you think of the million dollar? What do you think the real estate is actually worth? Market value.

>> So, we haven't dug into the books or anything. >> No, I I didn't ask you about the books. I asked you about the real estate.

What's the real estate worth? The building >> approximately $750,000.

>> Okay. So, you're wanting to buy an ice business for 250,000 bucks.

>> Sounds right to me. >> Okay. So, it should be making a profit after everyone is paid, including the

manager of the business. After everyone's paid market wages, that business should be making a profit of 60 or $70,000 a year. Is it

>> uh 60k? Um >> Oh, you haven't gotten into the exact profit. >> You haven't gotten into the books yet. You don't know.

>> Correct. Correct. Uh, this is this is something I want to try to figure out a route before to see if it was even attainable before I dug into the books.

>> Let me ask a real quick question. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. >> If you weren't working for this owner and they had not approached you about selling, they want to exit, would you be wanting to get into the ice business if you weren't currently working for them and this wasn't an opportunity?

>> I I I believe so.

>> Okay.

So, like if you weren't if you weren't working there anymore, a year from now, you would be going, I got to figure out a way to get in the ice business.

>> Uh, I I believe so. I I think it's it's very lucrative and I see a lot of opportunities in the in in the ice world itself. Um,

so I'm glad I was introduced to it very young. >> Yeah. >> And I think I think my answer would still be yes. >> That's not your family, though.

That's the Your family is a different business, >> correct? >> Okay. I want to make sure I got that straight. Okay.

All right. Um, now here's what I would tell my son if he was your age and came in and sat down at my kitchen table. I would say you need a better, you need a stronger personal financial foundation before you start talking about buying and running a small business. Buying and running a small business will take the bone marrow out of you.

It you it will drain you.

it'll squeeze you like yesterday's dish rag, man. You got cuz it it it it becomes a mistress if you're not real careful cuz you have to put everything you're all your emotions, all your intellect, everything into it. And you got a car payment and live with your mama. >> So you're not ready to do that.

>> So you guys need to get out on your own and be debtree and have a solid foundation in your life before you start talking about buying business. This is what I would tell my own son.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And can I can I ask you a question correlating to that? >> Sure. I I see this opportunity and I could see this opportunity as a long-term

investment, a long-term a great thing in just long term down the road and everything. I'm wanting I'm not wanting to pass up on this opportunity as it comes to me right now. And in my brain, you could tell me if I'm wrong. >> You're wrong. I just told you you were wrong. I just told you not to do it.

>> Pass up on it. Pass it. Let it go.

>> Let it go. Get in the ice business later when you get your freaking act together.

You don't have your act together yet.

>> About all you're good at so far is talking yourself into this. >> Yeah. It's not an opportunity. It's a trap. >> Yeah. >> With your current environment, Michael, >> you don't have you don't have any money. You have a car payment. You live with your parents. >> You I'm telling you, man. You really got to get out. You got to get out and get on solid ground to have a chance of making it in business. Business is hard.

It's hard. And you don't do it from your daddy's basement. It's hard. And you don't do it with a car payment, you know. No, it's not. It's you. You need to get a solid solid foundation. And I don't think we can stop you. You got your foot on the pedal. You're heading off the cliff. Nobody sign. Bridge out.

Bridge out. Bridge out. I don't care. I I I don't want to miss a chance. I'm taking the jump. >> It's a chance to go swimming, Dave.

>> That's it, man. >> It's That's the metaphor there. >> We can't stop you. So, have at it, son.

But I wouldn't do it. I'm telling you, I wouldn't do it. I think you're going to have plenty of times in your life to get into business and do it from strength, not from weakness. And you need to build some strength to do that. That's what I But I I it doesn't affect me, honey. If you want to do it, you go do it. But you ask what we would do. And we love you and we want you to win. I told you exactly what I told my own son who I

want to have a great life and prosper just like I want that for you. So, you do what you want, but I don't think you're in a position to do this right now. And I would not do it. I'm not a dream killer, but I love stepping all over nightmares.

I love kicking a nightmare out the door.

>> Yeah. So, >> oh the here's a quick message for and and this is Listen, we've all been your age and brighteyed, bushy tailed, excited about what looks like an opportunity. And this is a situation,

Michael, if you were to jump into this in your current environment, you wouldn't even be able to be fully focused. Like Dave said, you need to be on a small business because of the financial stress. you're not in a position to where this thing can take care of you. And I didn't hear enough evidence either, and this is a positive.

I'm not piling on here. I didn't hear enough evidence that he understood the business. Oh, >> he doesn't. Yeah. >> And that he could truly grow the business in order to say I could actually run the business. I'd like him to prove to the current owner that he through his efforts, Michael we're talking about, can grow the business.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would sit down and talk to the current owner. if you want to do this, Michael, here's a way to salvage the idea, I guess, and say, you know, put me in leadership role for the next two years.

That's where >> and I can get out and get I can get my personal finances and straightened out and then I want and then I want to talk to you.

>> Love that conversation. >> And you can have you can be sitting there learn the business inside and out.

You may learn >> you will learn a lot more about it than you know now. And you may learn the actual valuation is off. Yeah. And that's that's such good advice. I hope everybody's listening to that because that actually creates an opportunity.

Doesn't mean it's a good opportunity, but right now what you have is not an opportunity. If you go the Dave route there now all of a sudden it becomes an opportunity and then have the option to choose to take the opportunity. And that's what I like about that. There might be some sweat equity in that plan too if he helps grow the business. The best business deals I have ever done in my life are the ones I passed on. That's so true. That's good. They're the best ones. >> Yeah. This is the Ramsay Show.

[music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[snorts]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, best-selling author, and host of Front Row Seat, a big hit on Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today.

Liz is in Nashville. Hi, Liz. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I was calling because with me and my husband combined, we have a debt of 552,000.

Um, that includes our mortgage, but besides the mortgage, most of that debt is his. um we're following your baby steps. We've been following it all year, but it doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere. And if anything, right now, we're back at the same amount that we had at the beginning of the year. Um I I

I didn't I just don't know what to do. I don't I don't know what to do anymore.

>> I'm sorry. How could you get back into debt? I'm When you're getting out of debt. I'm confused.

>> Exactly. Yeah. Well, we've had situations with our cards come up and then he he loves to use his credit cards

for anything that comes up. So, >> okay. So, we're going into credit card debt while we're trying to get out of debt. So, he's not really trying to get out of debt. He's running business as usual and you're trying to get out of debt.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have $11,000 of that that is mine that even even myself

right now, I I just I can't seem to get out of it. And I'm physically >> So, you said 562,000. How much of that is mortgage?

>> 500,000 is mortgage.

>> Okay. What's the 62,000?

>> Um, so 11,000 is mine. And then the >> No, there's not a mine. You're married.

The $11,000 on what?

It's basically just credit cards.

>> Okay. So, you have $11,000 credit cards.

What else is out there out of the 62?

>> It It's all credit cards. We only have >> $62,000 in credit card debt.

>> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> I'm sorry. >> You don't have a car payment? >> That's true.

>> Uh just one car payment. We have a We have $1,000 left on it.

>> Okay. You owe $1,000 on a car. And what do you owe on your student loans?

We have no student loans. I paid off my car. >> Okay. So, you basically have $62,000 in

credit card. $61,000 in credit card debt. And what's your household income?

>> Uh I make 82 and he makes 80.

>> Okay. So, $162,000

with a $500,000 mortgage. And And uh how

long ago were you zero credit cards

debt?

Well, I was at zero credit cards last year. Um, he's always had credit cards debt. >> How long have you been married?

>> We've been married for 5 years now.

>> Okay. So, when you're married, it's all

ours.

>> Mhm. >> You understand me? Okay. So, you were never at zero because he's always had credit cards because we have had credit cards because you are married to Mr.

Credit card.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you've been married 5 years and we have always had credit card debt.

Uh, how much credit card debt did he come into the marriage with?

>> I think at that point it was around maybe 70,000.

>> So, it's it's maintained for about the last 5 years about the same.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So, in his past he overspent which is what the credit card came from. But we're just gonna Okay. So, how old are

you guys?

>> Uh, he's 41 and I'm 30.

>> Okay. All right. Well, I I This is not a

um a systems problem.

This is a person problem.

It's a behavior problem. Okay. So, your

system of getting out of debt is not going to work until both of you decide you're going to get out of debt. He has not decided that. And so you got you you

know you have a marriage issue to sit down and talk to your husband and say, "I want to get on the same page. I want us to get out of debt." And you can't tell me you want to get out of debt unless you put all the credit cards on the table and cut them up right now.

>> Yeah, we actually did that this weekend.

[snorts] >> Uh two quick questions. Give me quick answers here. How long have you been trying to to do the baby steps?

since the beginning of this year.

>> Okay. And then do you guys have separate finances? I'm guessing you do the way you're talking. >> Yeah. >> Yes, we do. >> And then and then one other one I I forgot. Does he use the credit card as just all of his expenses and he's under the guise I'm going to pay it off at the end of the month, but he never does. Is that what's going on? He's running everything through it.

>> He was. >> Yeah. >> Not anymore. But what how why did he agree to cut them all up last weekend?

I I think it's because, you know, he's

41 and I'm just I'm disappointed. I

mean, I just I can't take it anymore.

You know, um I have never had debt and

I've even racked up 11,000.

>> Okay, wait a minute. Stop a minute. Okay, I get all that. But he cut up the credit cards last weekend and then you called me and said he keeps going into credit card debt. But it sounds like this guy turned the corner last weekend and said, "I'm getting out of debt. I cut them all up. I'm confused about what you're upset about.

>> I I guess because I didn't I thought the number was lower than what it is. So

that's >> But you knew that last weekend.

>> Yeah. But I I'm at a point where I don't I don't know what to do. I can't pay off what we what we owe. I I just don't >> Yes, you can. You make $162,000.

You only need $62,000 to pay all this off. So you live on a hundred and you are debtree in one year. Voila.

>> Yeah, >> it's fairly easy. It's $5,000 a month and you are debtree in one year. The two of you sit down and do a budget together, combine your stinking finances and get on the same page and go, we're going to put $5,000 a month on this debt cuz you cut up the credit cards and I'm over this. I can't sleep. I'm terrified.

I'm done with all this irresponsibility and you are too. Thank you for cutting up the credit cards. Let's get on this and rot lock arms and let's attack this thing and be done. That's how you do it.

You make enough money to pay this off in one year. Easy.

>> That's right. >> If you can't live on $100,000 in Nashville, something's wrong with you.

>> Well, I don't I've tried. I've tried and it doesn't it just doesn't add up with daycare, with everything. It It just

doesn't add up.

>> What's your house payment? No, I know what your house payment is. Yes, it you you have not done a budget because the math you're giving me is just not factual. Okay. You don't you can pay

daycare and eat and pay your house payment out of $100,000.

That's $8,000 a month.

Quit your 401k if you're getting a

refund. Reset your W TWS and quit getting a tax refund. Cash out whatever s money you've got in savings. chop up the credit cards and attack this. So,

there's something uh Liz, your your hopelessness is not logical

unless you believe he's really not going to stop, in which case you need to go see a marriage counselor. But if he is uh if he's acting like I'm talking about and he goes, "Yeah, we're going to live on beans and rice, rice and beans. We're going to stop the 401ks. We're not going on any vacations.

We're going to sell so much stuff the kids are afraid they're next. We're getting extra jobs. We're going to live on a written budget. The two of us are agreeing together.

I just cut up the credit cards. Boom. 5,000 bucks a month goes on this. That's $60,000 a year.

That leaves me a h 100,000 to live on.

That's what it takes right there. You just got to go do this now. And but you can't you can't live in the past and be going, "Well, I get back to any." I don't care. What all we all that matters is the next 12 months. Game on, baby.

Super Bowl. Put the ball in the end zone. Let's go.

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Emily is with us in New York. Hi Emily.

How are you?

>> Hi, good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh, so my question is about if my husband and I are financially prepared to start a family or if we should wait a little bit longer to be responsible.

>> You're ready.

>> Um, maybe I would you like the background or is it out of blanket answer? [laughter] >> Uh, I'll give I'll I'll take the background as a courtesy. But here's the thing. We don't tell people to not have babies due to debt.

We tell them to not have huge numbers of babies, but you know, your first baby, start a family is a wonderful thing. It's the best thing you'll ever do while you're alive. And um we don't tell people to not do that because of a certain dollar figure around it. But let's hear it and I can give you some reassurance.

Okay. So, we actually um just have 30k

of student loans that are completely interest free between the two of us.

>> Okay, cool. And uh and what do you [clears throat] is that your only debt?

>> That's our only debt. >> And what is your household income? home.

So, our that's the issue is that so our

household income is um $120,000 of a

base salary uh with $50,000 in equity

and that's because equity mean

>> equity means so it's basically just registered stock units paid out quarterly because my husband works for um a large company and that's part of their compensation package. So he can cash those out how often?

>> He can cash them out um whenever after

they vest. Like there's a vesting period. >> How long do they take for them to vest?

That's what I'm asking. >> Um this year it'll vest at the end of

the year and then after that it's quarterly. >> Oh wow. Okay. So fif So he makes $170,000 a year including his stock bonuses. >> Yes. But not this he won't make that this year because we just started with that company. Um, we're also both 24.

Uh, so there's a few considerations. We just recently got married. Um, but we're living in New York City and our rent is crazy. We don't have a car. We're our budget despite the salary is pretty tight. We don't have a lot of free cash every month. Um, and we are invested.

>> That's the problem is that we actually had to move to the States for this job for my husband. So, I had saved him and

I together had saved about 150k before we moved here. And then I had to give up my job thinking I'd be able to get another job, but the immigration restrictions on what jobs I'm allowed to work have been so tight that it's been a few months and I have nothing. So, before we moved here in our home country, I was making about 80k and now I'm making nothing. And I feel like I'm just kind of sitting around at home and I've always wanted to be a mom and I've always wanted to be a stay-at-home mom.

And we're like, do we just start a few years earlier than we thought we would or should I both He's not on a green

card. What's he on? HB1.

>> Um, no. He's on a a TN visa, which is

because we're from Canada.

>> Oh, okay. Both both of you are from Canada. So, you're on a green card?

>> Um, no. So, we'll work towards the green card process eventually if we want to stay in the US long term, but right now he's just on TN and I'm on a dependent spousal visa. >> Okay. So, what is the plan? Are you planning to stay or not?

>> Um, we'll see what his business requires. Um, as it's more of a following a passion for work thing than it is about immigrating somewhere specific. So, if the company requires him here, we'll stay here. If they require him in Canada, we'll go to Canada.

Um, >> what can you do right now? >> That's another factor. >> What kind of work can you do? What kind of work can you do that is immigration allowed?

Let me let me let me rephrase. You told us there were a ton of restrictions. So I'm wondering what kind of work can you do that's not restricted. >> Yeah. So to try to explain. So basically

you can get a visa if your work aligns

with exactly what you did your undergraduate degree in. And I did my undergraduate degree in a science and then I had been working in consulting and project management and a business role before we moved here. and none of those qualify for a visa in the United States because it has to be a very specific technical job. Like my husband's an engineer, but project management does not qualify, but I don't have any technical science experience despite my degree.

So, I'm having a really hard time finding a job that I'm legally allowed to work because I never plan to move to the States.

>> Now, does he have in this situation, does he have health insurance?

>> Yeah, he has really good health insurance. >> Okay. All right. And it will probably transfer where you to go back to Canada and have great health insurance there, right? >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, we'd be fine. And with all the health care stuff, it's more just I don't I hear all the time,

>> oh, here's the thing. You don't need anything. >> Three years, three years from today, you will not be in this situation.

>> Correct. Once if we get a green card, >> something's going to happen. You're either going to get a green card or you're going to go back to Canada, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so this is a temporary, this

income is a temporary thing based on all the story that you've told us. And if I woke up in your shoes and you guys both want a child and God wants you to have a child, I would go have a child. That's what I would do. And there's, you know,

but do I want to be irresponsible and say neither one of us are working? No, I don't want to do that. or do I want to be irresponsible and have uh you know 10

kids and we make $30,000 a year and can't figure out a way to feed them. That's irresponsible too. I wouldn't want to do that. But to have a child when you're making 120,000 and you've got an uncertain immigration process looking in front of you in the next 5 years, I would definitely live my life.

I wouldn't put my life on hold for his

company, which is in a sense what we're doing.

And so no, I wouldn't do that. Uh uh and

and I think you can afford it and I think you can make it and you know you've got labor and delivery covered and you know babies are not as expensive as everybody acts like. It's not the end of the world and I think you guys can pull this off. You do whatever you want to do but that's what we would do at our house.

I I I just am so frustrated for her. I I I just bang my head against the wall metaphorically as I'm listening to this.

You know, here's a law-abiding Canadian.

She wants to work and the the the goofball rules that the government comes up with sometimes makes me want to just scream. >> Yeah. >> You know, because this is an opportunity to work and and if I understood her correctly, Dave, she can't do anything like she can't even go to Walmart and work. >> Right.

Right. She unless it's something to do with her degree, >> right? >> Her degree field. That's what she said.

I don't I'm not I'm not knowledgeable about any of that. >> I am not either, but wow. >> Um but it's um it is frustrating. But either way, bottom line is she ends up at home and that makes her say, "I want to be a mom." >> Yeah.

>> I would tell them get into every dollar, learn how to budget because I know that my parents, they scrapped by I don't know what your parents situation was, but they hardly had any money when I was born and they figured it out. And in some ways, it's a you know, that's a great way to get really responsible.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It just it makes you pay attention and and every dollar is a good way to pay attention. You're exactly right. you're going to make every dollar behave, you know, and you need to anyway, but especially wakes up when you got another human you're supposed to be responsible for. And um that that's a

that that extra responsibility gives us that adults devise a plan and follow it.

Children do what feels good. So, we're going to do this. So, and I you know, I think she's being very responsible asking the question. I kind of poked fun and said yes, just go have a baby.

But, but you know, but the uh but I think it's it's a responsible question, which means they're going to be okay. >> Yeah. Well, you know what I loved is she told us how much money they saved before coming to the States. This is a couple that has learned how to be disciplined.

It's a lot of money they saved. $150,000. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And he's making 170. They can make it on that. This stuff best. You can cash that.

Don't hold that stock and stack it up and starve to death. You know, cash that stock in. Take care of that baby. You You'll be okay.

Just Just go on.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

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hey.

>> [music]

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[music]

[music] Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Malachi's in Tucson,

Arizona. Hey Malachi, how are you?

>> Pretty good. How about yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, uh, I have myself in kind of a

financial hole that I'm finding harder to get out of than I expected.

Um, I have debt that I'm trying to get rid of, but it just seems like it's not getting anywhere.

>> That's no fun. How much debt have you got, brother?

>> Uh, I have just about $260,000 of debt.

>> Okay. Give me a little breakdown on that. What's the What's the categories?

So, $250,000 of that is my house and uh

the other I'd say about $10,000 is money that I

owe family.

>> Mhm. [snorts] You So, you don't owe anything on a car or a credit card or a student loan?

>> Uh I do I do owe $4,000 on my car.

>> Okay. All right. And what else? Anything

else?

>> No, other than that, that's it.

>> Okay. And so what's your income, sir?

>> Uh my income is at $90,000 per year right now. >> Okay.

So why can you not pay these bills with 90,000 bucks?

>> Well, uh I've been eating away at the debt of my home. Uh in just over 6 months, I've paid $110,000 of it. Um

>> that's far from being stuck, sir. That's

actually incred incredible progress.

>> Yeah. It just it doesn't quite feel that way. I have no money in the bank. Have uh >> Well, you paid it all on debt.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, you're not going to have money in the bank till you clear the debt. So, I would back up and knock the $4,000 car debt and the $10,000 family debt out next before I pay any extra on the house.

>> And then I would put an emergency fund in place of three to six months of expenses. And so I'd put 15,000 bucks in

a high yield savings account that's sitting there just for emergencies.

And so I just gave you $30,000 worth of an assignment. How quick can you knock 30 out?

>> Well, I would have to figure about 6 months, maybe less. >> Yeah, that sounds right. >> Mhm. >> Because you're living on nothing. You're you're game on. I mean, you not got any lifestyle eating this up or you wouldn't be making this kind of mathematical progress.

Yeah. So, >> you're already pretty stinking frugal, aren't you? >> Yeah, very much so. Yes, >> I'm thinking >> basically top ramen every day.

>> There you go. >> Yeah. I got a different word for you, Malachi. You don't have an elimination problem. You have an allocation problem.

And our baby steps, the snowball, uh, is where you start here. And all of a sudden, this momentum is going to just be unbelievable for you. You just been going about it the wrong way. >> Get the family and the car off your back. An emergency fund in place of 15,000. that's 30,000 worth. Then you go

back and start talking about the house again. And you don't have to be so intense on the house. You're going to wander out of that house.

>> You don't have to be quite so fired up about it. So, um, it's interesting though, the way you opened the phone call with us. It sounded like you were >> on the verge of bankruptcy or something like you were stuck. And you and quite

the opposite is true. you're making incredible progress and you you're living on nothing and applying all of your money towards your goals. So, um

you know, you're way ahead of the game.

You're far from stuck, sir. You're actually very successful.

>> Well, I mean, uh you know, I'm 23 years

old. Uh just turned 23 and uh feel I I

just felt I guess off that uh I have no money in the bank and you know, >> Well, that's fair. Okay. But but you

know, you you're you understand the progress you're making mathematically is pretty incredible.

>> I can see that. Yes. >> Okay. All right. I want you to own that cuz that's that helps you continue cuz if you feel like you're like you're doing something wrong, you know, you lose your emotional momentum to fight on through. But get the family off your back. Not like they're on your back. They may or may not be. And get the car off your back. It is definitely there.

And um have 15,000 in the bank. I think that'll put you in a different emotional spot. And then let's let's turn up the

lifestyle a little bit like have a life

and uh and slow down a little bit on

paying off the house. I want you to pay it off in you know four or five years three or four years. So like I don't know you're 27 with a paid for house in Tucson, Arizona. That would be a weird

Gen Z thing to do.

>> Lovely. You know, I I want to point out to our audience, we have a lot of new people joining us all the time. And I'm glad, Dave, that you're here on this call because this is an example of why so many years ago you created the baby

steps to create not just financial momentum, but actually emotional momentum. And so, here's a guy who's got his act together. The studio audience is shocked. There's a 23-year-old. He's like, I feel like I'm stuck. Well, he's been putting all of his money on the biggest piece of his debt, which is the house. And therefore he has no emotional

momentum and that's why he presents this way and that's the magic of what you created all these years ago. >> Yeah. The the power of baby steps is you can go anywhere you want to go if you just keep walking. >> Right.

>> It's just one step at a time. >> Right. >> And so um >> he feels like he's in a hamster wheel right now because he's going at it the wrong order. >> Yeah.

Yeah. And so knock out the little stuff, you know, start achieving some of the goals. So hang on Malachi. I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover.

About 10 million people have got it.

uh the ba the baby steps are outlined in that and it'll show you exactly what to do and it'll change that because Ken's right. What we figured out Malachi and for the rest of you is is that personal finance is 80% behavior.

It's only 20% head knowledge. The mathematics of wealth building you learn by the sixth grade.

It's not rocket science. This is not med

school. You don't have to have a master's degree in finance and stat statistics to become wealthy. It's literally sixth grade math. So math is

not our problem. It's not bothering

>> to pay attention to the guy in the mirror and his decisions. Malachi is paying attention to the guy in the mirror and is making great >> progress. We're just going to redirect his progress a little bit so he feels it. >> That's exactly right.

And the uh and if you feel it, then that matters because this is behavior. >> Yeah. >> So, it's all about feedback loops, the the psychologist would tell you. So, you're not going to keep going to the gym and not quit eating and not stay away from donuts if you don't lose weight as a result.

>> If I'm going to lose if I'm going to not lose weight or I'm going to gain weight, I might as well enjoy it, you know? But

if you go to the gym and you stay away from donuts, I'm talking to Dave. Um then then you can drop some poundage, right? And then you go, "Oh, well that behavior resulted in a result that I like." So I get a feedback. That's exactly >> I get feed positive feedback keeps me doing it. Yes. That's a feedback loop >> and that's that's where all this comes from and where it goes to. So very very good stuff. Devin is in Kansas City. Hi

Devin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, thank you guys for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Hey, so me and my wife are wanting to know if we are in a good financial spot to make her a stay-at-home mom.

>> Can you live on your income?

>> I believe so. It's going to be tighter than what we're used to. >> Well, of course. >> After after budgeting it out and doing

our every dollar budget, >> what do you make after all?

>> I make about $56,000 a year.

>> What's she make?

She makes about between 20 and 25.

>> How many kids have you got?

>> So, we've got one right now and one on the way due in about November.

>> Okay. Well, daycare and some professional clothing is just about eating up her income.

>> Yeah, she works in a daycare luckily.

So, >> Oh, well then it's not.

>> So, she gets 25 plus she gets a deal on the baby daycare, right?

Yeah. And I think we would technically qualify for daycare assistance in Kansas, so that would help out as well.

>> Well, I don't even know what that is, but Okay. Um, we have daycare

assistance. All right. Good.

>> That's another government program.

>> Sounds It sounds like sounds like a joy to me. But the um but I don't guess you need that if she's going to be at home.

>> Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So >> So here's what you do, man. run not only run your budget. Uh between now and the time she quits, live two or 3 months on your income without touching hers.

>> Yeah. >> And apply all of her income or more to

your baby steps and prove to yourself that you can live on your income. Just act like she doesn't have an income and run your household because if she quits, she ain't going to have an income. You can better get used to that. This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host [music] today. Thank you for joining us, America. If you like the show, you could help us. We could use your help big time. You [music] want to help? Ready, set, go. Here's what you do. Click follow or share the show or

subscribe or leave a fivestar review.

Mama said if you ain't got anything nice to say, don't say nothing at all. So, try that, you little trolls. And uh, you

know, have some fun out there, people.

Hey, spread the word. We appreciate it very much. We know that we were the fourth show in history on Apple Podcast

to have a billion downloads.

That was a year and a half ago. Joe Rogan was one of the first and one of the NPRs and then us. And um now we're

at a billion and a half downloads where you get about a billion minutes watched

on YouTube every 35 minutes. It's crazy.

I mean it's nuts. I mean, the I need to call the billions and billions of you. I mean, the the number of hours and minutes consumed by you guys out there is crazy. Thank you so much.

So, we know you're there and we know you're spreading the word because the numbers are growing. So, thank you and continue to share the show and >> spread the word and subscribe and follow and all that kind of stuff. It does help us because it changes the algorithms and, you know, pushes the show forward to other people to see it. Lauren is in New York City.

Hi, Lauren.

Hi, good afternoon, Dave.

>> Afternoon. How can I help?

>> So, I am at a point where I am drowning

in credit card debt. I have about $70,000 in credit card debt currently, and I can't really stop the bleeding.

Um, it's all due to attorney fees. Um,

>> you paid $75,000 in attorney's fees.

>> Um, also moving. Um, I was in a situation where I was married and um, my husband was an alcoholic and substance abuser and um, I had to get out of that

situation and get >> So, what did you spend to move?

>> About I'm in Westchester, so it was about $9,000 to move between like broker fees. >> So, you spent $60,000 bucks on lawyer fees?

>> Yes.

>> For what?

Uh I've had to fight tooth and nail for my child. Um it's been a very challenging court case. Um at this point he has um the court has ruled he cannot have access u to my 9-year-old daughter.

Um but it's been [clears throat] contempt orders and violation not on my

part um on his and it's also there's an

attorney um guardian adm

um so I'm paying both of the attorneys.

It's just been a very harrowing um experience that we are thankfully going to come to the end of hope soon by the end of the year. >> Okay. So, the bleeding is stopping then.

>> And uh it will what a horrible thing.

I'm so sorry. >> What What do you make? What's your What's your income?

>> Um I make $90,000 a year. Um and I'm in

a very expensive area that I'm not legally allowed to leave. Um, I am

currently working at a nonprofit organization and I can make more money.

I have a doctorate in physical therapy, but I am tied to my job for the next two and a half years because I have extensive student loans totaling in the amount of $260,000 and I'm in public service loan forgiveness. Um, and I only pay 414 a month. So after that, my loans will be forgiven. So I'm plus they're very flexible.

I have a daughter with special needs, so I'm really kind of stuck at that amount right now, making that $90,000.

And I do not receive any type of child support or anything like that. Um, and I I'm just making the bare minimum on the credit card payments. And so, I'm trying to figure out when this is all said and done and I can, you know, go and I can't touch anything. >> Is there any financial settlement that you're going to get from the divorce?

No, no, there's absolutely nothing. I'll be lucky if I get child support at this point. I'm not I'm not going to bank on anything at this point.

>> If you if you could I understand your the limitations based on the loan forgiveness, but could you practice physical therapy today just theoretically on paper with your current qualifications?

>> The answer is yes. But I also have a

daughter with special needs that requires a lot of my time and if I had to pay for child care um that that would

plus finding a provider that would be able to provide that child care. I'm kind of in you know a very difficult situation. >> So no no family support or friends in Westchester at all that could help out.

>> No no my my my family is from Florida. I

don't have any family here.

>> Okay. Um,

so here's what's going to happen.

Something's going to explode

because you have painted a picture

that says, um, I'm stuck in the corner and everything around me is wet paint

and I can't move.

>> And yet you're going to get your feet.

You're going to get paint on your feet.

something's going to give. This is not

sustainable. That's why you called us.

So, >> yes, >> I don't know what it is that's going to give. Uh but something's going to happen here and it's not going to be pretty. Uh you're going to have another set of problems and anxietyridden mess following this anxietyridden mess of a divorce because you painted yourself into this corner of I don't have any choices. I don't have any choices.

you better make some because what you're telling me isn't sustainable and you know it's not sustainable. So you need to get your lawyer that's so dadgum expensive to go before the court and get you out of Westchester County and you need to forget the stupid loan pro forgiveness cuz you're probably not going to get it and you need to go make about $200,000 a year and get your freaking life back or something. I don't know what it is, but something's got to change >> because everything that we bring up, everything we talk to you and ask you about is a trap.

I'm trapped. I'm trapped. I'm trapped. I'm trapped.

That was the answer to every one of your questions. I don't have any choices. I don't have any choices.

So, math will not give you a pass. Math

does not believe in grace. Math does not

believe in mercy.

It's going to come for you. and it already is and you're feeling it and that's why you're calling. So, I'm not trying to scare you, but uh your process

by all the stress you've been through and all the damage you've been through, it it has made you believe that you are trapped and don't have choices. And I'm challenging that you do have choices and you better make some you better change something here because you're not going to get help from him. I'm betting that the student loan forgiveness doesn't work because such a low percentage of those actually do go through and you may have sacrificed a great income for a lousy income. Um, and I don't think you're trapped there.

I think if you go before the judge and go, "Your honor, I don't make enough money to live in Westchester. I can't live here. Help me out here. Where can I go?

What can you tell me what to do?" And you go before the judge with that plea.

the math that you've given me doesn't work doesn't continue. It's something's going to come up short and it's going to choose you if you don't choose it. That's what I'm saying. So you're not stuck. But um but you do have a very difficult situation and um part of it is

um you you're [gasps and sighs] my heart's breaking for you honey because my I hear your language is as if you have been abused

in this relationship. So if you were in a domestic violence situation, one of the things the abuser convinces

the the person of is that they don't have any choices and that they're stuck.

You can't leave. if you can't afford to live without me, so you have to stay and let me be a let and be my punching bag.

And so that's one of the lies they tell.

And then you start to believe that lie yourself. Now, you broke free of this guy, but your language of I'm stuck. I'm stuck. I'm stuck. I'm stuck is breaking my heart because it still sounds like he still owns you. And I want you free from

him and free from this trap and free from all this. I wish I had a magic wand. I could just say there's an instant thing here. But the one thing I will tell you is you got to make some different choices.

>> Yeah. >> This is not it's not working for you, hun. >> You know, I'm so sorry. >> She can find people that can help take care of the child, but she's the only one that can feed the child.

And so, for that reason, I would drive this home. I would be getting into physical therapy and making the most money possible. That gives you more options.

money in [music] the most expensive county in freaking New York area except possibly Manhattan. This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman Ramsay personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

Shay is in Idaho. Hi Shay, how are you?

>> Hi there. I'm glad to be speaking with you Dave and Ken. I'm very grateful for your ministry. >> Well, thank you. How can we help?

>> Yeah, my question is around the enjoyment side of money. Um my husband and I both struggle with that and

specifically around planning and booking vacations. Um when that time comes around, I just start to feel so much like anxiety and like shame um about

spending so much money on something. Um

it's just hard for us. And so I was wondering if you had any tips.

Well, number one, you have to practice because you've not developed that muscle. Your frugal muscle is overdeveloped and that's how you got here. Thank goodness.

But you've you've not you've not flexed your enjoyment muscle very much while

you were flexing your frugal muscle.

Agreed?

>> Probably. Yeah. >> So, the more you do it, the better you get at it. Um, I speak from experience.

Um yeah, >> I mean the I I had a hard time buying a decent car, you know, and now I don't have any trouble at all. [laughter] >> That has been our struggle as well.

>> Yeah. The second the second thing is um

I look at ratios

and um the ratios are what percentage of

our world are we actually spending and how does it compare to our generosity.

So we look over here and we say our generosity equals X >> and this dinky butt little trip we're doing is a small small small percentage

of what we make and what we give.

>> Okay? >> And so my heavenly father who's crazy

about me says if we being evil know how

to give our children good things, how much more so our father in heaven wants

us to have good things. in other words.

And so, um, you know, God's not mad if I

enjoy some of the blessings that he gave me while I'm being generous. And while

the amount of money it feels like a lot

cuz it's compared weirdly emotionally to the old days, but as a percentage of my world today, it's a very small amount.

And that that's you know the ratio thing, the generosity thing and uh the

acknowledgement. So another example of that is okay around Ramsey we have 1100

team members. We're in 650,000

square feet.

>> We spend more. We we furnish coffee. We

have coffee these grinding coffee machines on every floor, right? That make fresh brewed ground coffee for everybody, right? And they don't pay for it. It's free to all the team members.

We spend more on coffee than I made in a

year most of my life. [laughter]

>> That still freaks me out. You know,

>> it's still a problem, but it's just a matter of scale and ratio. And but it's a very small percentage of what Ramsay, the organization, has coming in in revenues. So obviously, we're not being irresponsible. We're not going to have to shut down because of our coffee. It's not even close. And that's the case, I'm guessing. What's your all's net worth, Shay?

>> Um, over a million.

>> And what's what is your household household income?

>> Um, my husband makes 120 and I make

around 50. >> So 170 with a million. And what are you talking about spending on a trip?

>> They just get more expensive every year.

>> What are you talking about spending on a trip? Uh, like 12 to 15.

>> Yeah. Well, it's it's absurdly small percentage of your world.

>> Is that you, hubs, the kids?

>> While we were talking about this, the million dollars made you 12.

>> That's true. >> Who's going on the trip?

>> All six of us, >> right? How old are the kids?

>> Oh, sorry. They're six, eight, 10, and 11. >> Okay. As a guy who has who has one in college and another one graduating high school, I'm going to give you two words that I think you need to process the next time you start feeling this shame

about spending money because you've already proven to be frugal. So, here's what I want you to think of. Return versus regret. What's the return on that

investment of the 12 to 15,000 with those six kids 10 years, 20 years, 30

years from now? What's the return on those memories and all of the things all right versus the regret >> if you don't take those kinds of trips with those six and then they get out and and I think return versus regret. You've already proven you're frugal. So Dave and I aren't here worried about you overspending. But you've got to play those words out. What's the return on this trip? And then what would the regret be if we didn't do things like this and had all this money?

>> Yeah. but very few memories and experiences. >> Hey, the the return versus the regret

does not work if you're borrowing the money to do it. Boys and girls out there in in radio land. Hello. Good point.

Yes. >> So, this lady's a millionaire making 170 and she's going to write a check for this. That's right. Don't use the same argument. I put $12,000 [laughter] on my credit card cuz Ke Coleman said I would regret it if I didn't go on this vacation. No, you'd be you'd be regretting being stupid if you did that.

>> Thank you for clarifying that. That is within the context of you have cash.

Yeah, you have the money. It's a small percentage of your world. And I suspect your generosity is larger than your trip. >> Mhm. >> I suspect most people who get where you are, their generosity is there.

>> So, hey, you're doing a good job. Enjoy the ride. >> Yeah. >> So, folks, there's uh this is where this falls under the reason I have to stop and clarify that is right. Live like no one else. So that >> that's correct. and she's at the so that >> later you can live and give like no one

else. >> But the truth is what I spend or what

someone who has accumulated some wealth

is a small percentage of of our wealth is spent on consumption. Most of it is spent on generosity and reinvestment.

The vast majority of the money that I touch and that flow that God has blessed me to manage for him is either reinvested for future generations or it

is invested in other ways called generosity. >> Back into the community in some

community somewhere and and some dollar amount. A and those are the two things

that make up the vast majority. The

highest percentage by far of our income

or of our net worth is invested in those

two things. Our consumption though is still ridiculously larger than it was when we were not

making any money and didn't have any money. So it still is emotional. It still feels weird. And you know,

sometimes even friends or dysfunctional family will say stupid things like, "You're so lucky." Well, that's a dumb

butt thing to say. Luck had nothing to do with it. >> Yeah, don't say that around Dave.

>> Luck had Luck comes in dressed with calluses and overalls getting ready to do some work. That's where luck comes in. I know where luck comes from. It's a

sweat. That's where luck comes from. I got your luck. Luck's when you win the raffle. >> Yeah. [laughter] lux when you were smoking crack in the parking lot and bought a lottery ticket and hit it. That's luck. There we go.

>> Okay, but that's luck. But this is not luck. This is work >> and God's blessings.

>> God God just deciding in [music] his infinite grace that he was going to touch us with the tip of his finger and bless the things that we were working on and protect us and allow

us to be sitting here. So, but don't call it luck. It's insulting to God and it's insulting to my calluses.

[music]

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Listen up, guys, because I've got a big question for you. Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you

be better off, worse, or exactly the same? Believe it or not, you get to choose. Look, I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money, but I want you to hear me.

You're more in control than you think.

You can turn your finances around. So, let me help you out. Start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free Every Dollar live stream event on January 8th. We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck. So, you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead. And you could even win $2,000

just for signing up. Listen, another year is going to pass anyway. So, decide that this is the year you're going to take back control of your life and your money. Go sign up for the free live stream at everydoll.com/livestream.

[music]

>> [music]

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Melanie is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Hi, Melanie. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Okay. Um, so my husband and I have two

rental properties. Um, and uh, my

mother-in-law has lived in one since

2019.

Um, uh, she moved in from Vermont, didn't have a place to go, and so my husband let her move in to that house. Um, 2020

hit, my husband's in the army. um didn't

get a certain something that everyone was demanded they were told to get and he lost his job um that he was going to sell the house. She told him that God

told her it is not it is his job to take care of her because he is the son. So he bought a new house in the town down the road and she still lives currently in this same house. Um we have >> Were you all married at this time when God told her that about you?

No, we we were not we were not I was not

I was not around. Um >> Okay. >> So he was he was single and and she lived with him. >> Um so we have one child. We are

expecting our second one in October. Um

and I'm self-employed. My husband's still in the army. Um but we came mutually to to the decision that in August because my job is pretty physical that I'm going to stop working and that I'm only probably going to go back maybe one or two days a week. Um, and so we

are we it would be very helpful to have

an actual income coming in from that house. She pays uh half half of the

mortgage. My husband pays 450 and his one brother gives 150 towards it. Um,

it's kind of a sticky situation. There's six siblings between all of them. Um, and everyone else has had their opportunity to grow and expand their family. My husband is the last one out of the six to be married and have kids.

So, we don't want to kick her out. Um,

but she >> Yes, you do.

>> Well, I I don't want to say I do, but it would it would just [laughter] it would it would it would just be it would just be helpful. Um, [laughter] >> you're so sweet. Just tell them what just say what you mean. You want her to leave. She She's taking advantage of everybody and you're over it.

Yes. And that's where my h that's where my husband is at. >> Well, then he needs to deal with his mom.

>> So, so, but this is the other thing. She won't move in to a senior highrise.

>> She will. She's homeless. >> She doesn't want to move anywhere. >> She will if she's homeless.

>> So, do you think that's that's our best option? Give her like 60 days and call her like >> Okay. >> Listen, I can tell you how to get you get her out. Just it's two words. Rubber snake. [laughter]

That's where I was going. I was going to ask what is she afraid of? Cuz we can make this really easy with no [laughter] tension. >> Well, but that's but that's the other that's the other hard thing is she she claims PTSD. She claims all of these all

of these issues. >> Well, I think I think I think I claim that she's moving into assisted living if she can't manage her life. [snorts]

and we'll help her do that um with a little bit of money >> and uh we'll use some of the money from the sale of the house. You need to sell the house >> and uh and that's what that's we'll use some of the money from the sale of the house to help her get settled and then unplug the uh unplug the cord, the umbilical cord. Okay.

>> Okay. Cuz my my husband was just want just from the Christian perspective. He he >> No, honey, there's nothing Christian about. Let me just tell you, okay, I had a guy walk into the office here a while back at the front desk and they said, "There's a guy down here to see you." And I walked down. He said, "God told me you were going to buy me a van."

>> And I said, "No, he didn't.

He didn't tell you that." He said, "What do you mean?" I said, "He absolutely did not tell you that." Because if he had told you that, he would have told me and there'd be a van sitting out there for [laughter] you. >> But he didn't tell me. >> Okay. So, I'm always I'm always interested as a Christian for people who play the God card with such authority and uh all they are is a manipulator.

>> This has nothing to do with honoring your mother. When they say honor your father and your mother, it doesn't say honor their misbehavior. It says honor the office of motherhood, the office of fatherhood. If your mom does cocaine and wants you to buy it for her, that is not a godly act.

>> Okay? >> Right? And your your mother-in-law is misbehaving. She's a travel agent for guilt trips.

>> She's got issues. >> That's good. I'm gonna use that. I've never heard that before. >> I know. That's a good one. [laughter] >> Yeah, I like that. >> And your poor husband has been pushed around by her and and and then she plays the God card and God didn't tell her that. That's a complete load of crap.

>> Okay. >> Thank you. >> It's absolutely not true.

>> What's your husband's stomach for all of this? Is he going to take her? Is he going to take her on?

>> No. So, his thought was he was going to

uh put the house on section 8 and then we would register her for section 8 housing. >> That's awful. She needs to move.

>> You need to deal He needs to deal with his mom.

>> He needs to lovingly kindly go sit down, have a cup of coffee, and go, "Mom, we're done.

I love you and I'm going to help you move into some assisted living with some of the money I make from the sale of this house. But you have milked this cow and it is dry >> and you're not milking anymore. Mom, we're done. Well,

no, Mom. You're confused. I said we're done. And I wasn't kidding. We are done.

You are moving. You're either going to move gently and kindly with my assistance or I'm going to set you in the street with the sheriff. Now, do you want to play this the easy way or the hard way? I've you've reached the end of my patience. I am done. I love you. I'm

going to help you as best I can, but you

living here is not going to happen anymore. He needs to have the backbone to say that. >> Mhm.

>> Thank you. >> And you don't need to be in the room.

Well, that's Yeah, they they have a he has a lot of animosity. >> You don't need to be in the room. You'll get blamed for all this. The wicked you'll be the you'll be the wicked stepdaughter.

>> If he's got animosity towards her, this actually should be a little easier because Well, you just got to be careful to be kind. >> Yeah, but I mean, as far as disappointing her, I mean, look, you guys have got to tell Mama >> couldn't give a crap as if she's disappointed. I agree. >> It's not He's not disappoint.

He's not afraid she'll be disappointed.

also guilt trips him to keeping >> Well, then let him let him write the checks. >> You You guys got to cast a little vision. >> Isn't [laughter] it amazing how everybody's got an opinion about what you guys should do with your money?

>> That's the key. >> I know. >> This family is they put the fun in dysfunction, don't they?

>> Wow. >> You're coming home with a new baby, and this is a financial asset that will help you all live the life you want to live.

I'd stay in that lane to where they are painted in a corner. >> Multi-millionaire and you want to put up with this crap and you want to just write checks just to not have to deal with it. That's fine. But it's not good for her. She's going to continue to do this crap the rest of her life.

>> Yeah. >> And it's not good for It's not good for you guys. It's, you know, you're losing respect for your husband. He's losing respect for himself because he won't stand up >> to to this, you know, this mom that's out of control. And is not biblical automatically. you have to write checks for somebody who hasn't who doesn't do stuff. I mean, I I I want him to take care of her to the point he can. That'd be sweet. It's a charitable act, but it is not a biblical mandate. God did not

tell her that he was to furnish her a house. That's an absolute load of

religious crap. It's what that is. And

I, man, [music] I got I I love my brothers and sisters in Christ, but some of you people are oversaved. This is the Ramsey Show. Heat.

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Heat.

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>> [music]

[music] >> When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseyolutions.com/start.

answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramseysolutions.com/start

[music]

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[music] in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debtree stage. Nathan and Brittany are

with us. Hey guys, how are you >> doing? Well, how are you doing? Better than we deserve. Where do you guys live?

>> Chattanooga. >> All right. Just down the road. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> $73,545.

>> Excellent. And how long did that take?

>> About 14 months. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that time? >> 80 to about 100,000.

>> Cool. What do y'all do for a living?

>> I am a first grade teacher. >> Mhm. >> And I'm a mental health therapist and I direct a college counseling center for a local college. >> Oh, excellent. Very good. So, what kind of debt was the 74 grand?

>> It was taxes. It was a car, credit

cards, and I had student loans.

>> Student loans. >> Yeah. >> Y'all were kind of normal. >> Yeah, very normal. >> Yeah, normal sucks. Yeah, it >> did. >> So, what happened 14 months ago? What was your wakeup call? What was your uh something's got to change moment.

>> Yeah. Well, we went through Financial Peace University whenever we got married um 5 years ago and we were Ramsay-ish for about three and a half years and paid off only $30,000 of debt.

>> So, you flunked? >> Yes, very much so.

>> And then 14 months ago, we owed in taxes for the first time and had to get new tires on our car within a couple days of each other. and we both felt like we got punched because we had a bunch of bills.

We had student loans, credit cards, and now we had to get new tires and pay the IRS, which is a scary feeling.

>> It's interesting that owing the IRS

suddenly like that is like

100x more uh drama than owing the exact

same amount to a credit card company.

>> Yes, it was scary.

>> They're just like Yeah. and and with

good reason because they're scary people. But [laughter] >> yeah, >> but but wow, that does there is something puts a lump in your throat, a knot in the stomach, and you got to Okay, this has got to stop. >> Mhm. >> We got to get that old Financial Peace book back out and this time we're doing it. >> Yes. >> Exactly. >> Is that what it sounded like?

>> Yeah. I mean, we I started working um at

my school, we have an opportunity to work the late day program, and so I started working from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. every day. He started door dashing.

He started teaching classes.

>> Yeah. So we >> any extra that we could do. We were trying to do we cut up our credit cards.

>> Yeah. >> The whole nine yards. >> Yep. And got very serious. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Got on a budget.

>> We were on a budget, but we started actually following the budget. >> Oh, yeah. Actually doing it. Yeah.

>> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> See, here's what I want people to hear. You knew the plan. You said you were ish. And then you go from ish to right.

[laughter] Like that R that Ramsay was like it's a it's a guttural kind of a sound. Mhm. >> So, what were beyond working hard, what were some of the communication changes in order to actually finally go, we're doing this thing?

>> Yeah, we had to quit making excuses.

And, you know, our date nights look a lot different. Um, Friday nights, we were having cheap pizza, watching Smart Money Happy Hour at home, [laughter] you know, I mean, just um Yeah, the communication we began to more just breathe and communicate. Ramsay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And we communicated about everything. Like people in our lives would be like, "You're talking about buying gum." >> But it'd be like, "No, we're we're communicating about everything, saying, "This is where our budget's going. Is it okay that we put this in the miscellaneous category?" Cuz it came up unexpectedly. Yeah. We just communicated about every little thing.

>> That's awesome. >> Yeah. >> Glad the wakeup call was something small. >> Yeah. To knock out. Yeah.

>> That the why. So, so your your core

reason was to get away from that fear.

>> That's what drove you >> that that that moment, you know, I don't ever want to feel like this again.

>> Yeah. And to change our generation that

comes after us. We want >> That's the more noble step. Once you get past the fear, you're like, "Okay, we're going to change the family tree." >> Yeah. We never want our kids to experience that, >> right? The fear motivated us, but then also, I mean, we're both Christians. And so, once we began getting on that that path, like it wasn't easy. It felt like spiritual warfare at times. like things kept on coming up, coming up, coming up.

But we realized like, you know, we also want to use our finances to honor God and uh steward what we've been given.

Well, >> yeah. >> Yeah. Good for you guys. Well done. Well done. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

>> Well, other than getting a Britney in their life [laughter] because like I could take an hour and talk about how incredible that she is. Um but other

other than that, because I've got her and that's my my step, but um but I would say know your why. just I mean tying it back into that and for ours was for um giving praise to the Lord Jesus.

>> Yeah. And intentionality because as we said it took us three and a half years to pay off 30,000 and then we paid off

73,000 in 14 months.

>> And it's just funny how we had so many people tell us on while we were on this journey, "Oh, I just wish we could do that. I wish we could do that." And it's like, well, you can. All you have to do is make the hard choices because it is [snorts] hard. It's not an easy thing.

It was the hardest season we've had so far. >> Yeah. >> But the intentionality is what changed it. And if we can do it, anyone can.

>> Yeah. Deloney says, "Choose your hard." I mean, it's hard to owe the IRS money >> and not be able to put your tires on your car. >> That's hard. >> But there's also the hard of I'm going to sacrifice so I don't ever have to face that again. That's that's a better hard to choose. Let's choose that one.

And that's the one you chose the second time. Good job, y'all. Well done. Very very very well done.

>> So, um, >> what was the hardest part? What was the biggest fight you had while you were doing this 14 months?

>> Um, the hardest part was just making

sure that we were both serious at the

same time because it is hard and it's really nice to do this with somebody to keep you accountable. And so when I would say, I think we should use the

budget for this, or he should we she he would say that we should use the budget for this, we it was just hard sometimes getting on the same page and it was really easy to have one person say, "Well, why not for this?" Oh, also, no spend months are hard.

>> Those are really, really hard. Um, and so just making sure we would get on the same page. >> Yeah. And I'm, you know, Rachel Cruz talks about like I'm a spontaneous giver. She says that in her book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. And for me, I had to be like, "No, I can't give," right? I mean, we gave to our church. Obviously, that was our plan to giving, but for me, I had to keep that like longist goal of like, I want to be able to live and give like no one else.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, right now, I'm going to not do the spontaneous, right? Yeah.

Everything's got to be dialed into a plan for a period of time here with this intensity. Yeah. Right.

>> Well done, you guys. Proud of y'all.

Thank you. Who was cheering you on? We had a lot of good cheerleaders in our life, but our main ones are here today.

We have my parents, as I said, my dad, he had us do Financial Peace University whenever we first got married. And then my mom, she is an avid couponer and so we haven't paid for toiletries or anything like that because of her. And then also, there were sometimes that we'd come home from work and our fridge would be full of groceries cuz she was just being a great blessing. And then my best friend Megan is here and she has just been the ultimate cheerleader.

every little thing. She'd be like, "You paid off $50." Yeah, that's awesome.

Just during every [laughter] little step along the way. So, just truly a great cheerleader. >> Very cool. Good job, you guys. You surround yourself with people that love you and support you and that instead of bunch of Debbie Downers around you. That's very smart. Very smart. Well done. Good stuff. Good stuff. Poor Debbie and poor Karen. They've just gotten messed over, haven't [laughter] they? >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Oh my gosh. Wow. Well, way to go you two. Very, very cool. Good stuff. Nathan and Britney from Chattanooga. $74,000

paid off in 14 months, making 80 to 100.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> 3 2 1 We're debtree. [screaming]

>> That is how it's done. Wow. [applause]

Ken, if we can ever solve the formula to

get people to be intense automatically while they're in the class, >> sometimes they are, sometimes they're not. But if we can solve that formula and not have that three and a half year gap of ish >> before something has to come along punch you in the gut to get you awake, we will we will have hit, you know, we will have hit a milestone. That that would be huge >> cuz the number of people number of you listening out there right now, you know, you you you listen to this stuff, but you don't do it. >> Yeah.

And and here's the thing. I'm just sitting here watching this and those of you that are listening, you could hear it in Nathan.

it rip. And what's fun about watching that, and there's no judging whether you're louder than than the next deck free screamer, but there's something emotional there. And to your point, Dave, if you can figure out how good it's going to feel in that a class

>> like and you see what it feels like, >> uh, that's the idea is bottling that and going, why would I want to delay that? I want to get through this now and experience what's on the other side of it. >> Yeah. >> Fantastic. >> Step away from the ish, >> right? That's right. >> Don't do the ish. Back away. Don't do

the ish. Don't do it. >> Just cannonball. >> Don't do it.

This is the Ramsey Show.

[music]

[music]

Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with money, but still stuck? I was you. in debt, running hard, but taking three steps forward and two steps back. Turns out, it's not the numbers.

It's the fact that changing our ways with money is emotional. That's why I wrote my brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money, to help you push past what's really been sabotaging your progress so you can finally win. You can pre-order now and score over $100 in free bonus items, but only if you order by January 5th.

Our

[music]

scripture today, Philippians 2:14 and 15. Do everything without grumbling or arguing [music] so that you become may become blameless and pure children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.

Then will you then you will shine among them like stars in the sky. Thomas Saul

said there has now been created a world

in which the success of others is a grievance rather than an example. Woo.

Wow. Javier is with us in Denver. Hey Javier. What's up?

>> Hey there Dave. Um so you guys straight to the point sir. Thank you for picking my call. Uh my dad wants to get a heliloc. Um but he wants me to cosign.

Uh cuz I don't think I he can get it on his own. Uh the the heliloc is 55,000

11% interest. Um and I'm just kind of like wondering what I should do.

>> Well, you know what you should do? You just don't know how to tell your dad no?

>> Yeah, I I guess so.

>> How old are you? >> I want to I want to help. Um I'm 23. Why

in the world does a father need a 23y old to sign a heliloc cosign a heloc with him? He must really be in a mess.

>> I I mean from the outside looking in I can probably Yeah. >> Listen, if he needs a co-signer that's a 23 year old, he's made a mess.

Otherwise, he'd be able to get it on his own.

Roger that. >> Yeah.

So, play this out. Play this out. Let's say you do this and he keeps making a mess of his life, which he already has.

You acknowledge that. What does that do to you and your personal finances? And what does it do to your relationship?

>> Yeah. It's it's going to it'll affect it

in a negative way. >> Absolutely, young man. So, we're not trying to be unkind. We're trying to save you from uh get him hold into this match. >> Save him from some grief. What's he want for? Do you know?

>> Yes, sir. Um, so, uh, he owns a towing company and I work for the towing company and, uh, uh, he wants the helock

to so that we can get insurance for the tow trucks. Um, and he also wants it to pay off a loan and some credit cards and, um, that's what he wants it for.

So, >> why why is the tow truck company not making money?

>> Uh, well, tow truck company was making money. Um, but the insurance payment is

what's kind of like it's kind of a lot.

It's not making enough to pay its own insurance payment.

>> It seems to be that way. Yes. >> Yeah. One of the expenses of operating a tow truck company is having insurance and it's not making a profit enough to even or not making enough revenue to even pay the expenses is what you're telling me.

>> Yeah, I guess so. >> No, I mean really if the company was making money, he'd have the money, right?

>> Yeah.

How much is the insurance payment? Do you know?

>> So, he wants to do a down payment on the insurance for $7,000. And I think uh I asked him what it would be annually. If you can just do like an annual payment, maybe 35,000. >> Mhm. >> Um >> do you know what the gross revenues of your company is?

>> Uh no sir, I don't I don't know what the gross revenues are.

>> How many trucks are y'all running?

>> Uh we run two. I run one and then he runs the uh another one of our drivers runs the other one and then my dad works a full-time job.

>> Okay.

So, the guy that trained me said that financial problems are not the problem, they're the symptom.

So, the problem of not being able to pay the insurance and having run the credit card up on the tow truck business is that the tow truck business is not profitable enough.

That's the problem. That doesn't get better with a loan.

>> It gets worse with a loan.

>> You follow me? >> Understood. So, what this is is it if I were coaching your dad as a small business guy, which we coach small business guys all the time. Um, I would tell him, "Let's work on the business and fix the business problem.

What do we do to increase our revenues, drop our expenses?" Because he's not making enough.

>> He's not making enough to pay his own insurance. >> So, it may be that they need to get out of the tow truck business cuz it's not even his real job. It's yours, but it's not his and you can get another job.

Um, but you know, so we got to fix the

business to where the business is profitable because let's say the business had $50,000 cash in the bank because it was making so stinking much money. You and I wouldn't be on the phone, Javier.

>> Yeah, that makes uh complete sense.

>> Yeah. So, the business has got issues.

It's got problems. And your dad's not a bad guy. He's a hardworking dude. He's trying to figure this out. But I'm coaching him through you right now. My coaching to him is let's fix the business problem, not borrow and cover

up the business problem and let the business problem continue because the borrowing is going to make it worse. So, no honey, you don't need to cosign for a heliloc. Your dad doesn't need to take out a heliloc. He needs to get above this problem and solve it for the tow truck business or get out of the tow truck business. But don't go borrow on your home, sir, to pay your insurance when your tow trucks aren't making enough to pay their own insurance.

That's a bad plan for your dad.

>> Such wisdom. I hope people that are out there that may be struggling in a small business or a side hustle, you got to know when to fold them. You know, you've got to know. And if you can't fix that business, go ahead and shut the business down. Don't keep digging a deeper hole and fund it personally through debt. We see this a lot. And this breaks people.

It breaks them. >> Yeah. And he's, you know, and here's the thing. This dad I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna give him a benefit of a doubt. His son is driving the trucks. It's his side hustle. >> Yeah. >> Dad's side hustle, but his son's job.

>> That's right. >> And he's trying to keep this alive for his kid. >> I think that's right. I think that's right. >> And that's a bad play, too. >> Yeah. >> It's not It's not a good play. If it Let's either get this thing working or let's fold it up and sell the trucks.

>> How You've done this way longer than I have. How do you fight that real emotion? because that emotion is so strong to fight to stay to try to keep bailing water out of the boat. What how do you uh >> I just I just use Henry Cloud's uh necessary endings rule and that is when I don't have any real >> facts in front of me that indicate that there's a way around a way through this >> then I'm done.

>> Yeah. >> But if I if I've got a fact and if I try these three things and it works I'll be okay. Then I got to go try those three things before I give up. >> Right.

But if I if everything I played and I don't see a way around other than borrowing and making it worse >> then it's time to fold. Time to close up, sell the trucks. >> Yeah. >> Paul's with us in Canada.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi Dave and Ken. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help, sir? >> Better than we deserve. Um well, here's here's our uh my situation. I'm sitting here with my wife and um we sold our

house 2 years ago. We were in some pretty deep debt and uh

uh we're in our mid to late50s.

>> Are you out of debt now?

>> We are 100% out of debt. We have some credit card a little bit of credit card debt. Nothing nothing too dramatic.

>> That would be like not 100% out of debt.

>> Well, there Okay. Two grand and 1,500.

Okay. So, you still hadn't learned your lesson. Okay.

>> Okay. [laughter] >> You sold your house to get out of debt and you're still playing footsie with these plastics.

>> Okay. >> Uh true.

>> Um we uh we have we we own our vehicles.

We uh don't owe anybody anything.

>> Before I run out of time, Paul, what's your question? My first of all, um I'm I'm actually

glad that Ken is uh online there with you guys because uh it's direction right

now. Uh we have about 50,000 just under 50 grand in the bank right now and uh my

wife wants to buy another house and I

don't. >> Why? Why don't you want to?

Um well I know the stress that um I was

under uh when we did own a house and making sure that the >> you guys have incomes, >> pardon me, >> you have incomes.

>> Uh my wife has income. I'm actually injured right now. Um I'm off work uh

until the new year. >> Okay. >> And um I'm only working part-time.

>> Okay. Well, when you're working and your incomes are there, if you take out a 15-year fixed rate loan where the payment is no more than a fourth of your take-home pay, you're 100% debtree, you've cut up the stupid butt credit cards, and you have an emergency fund in place, there shouldn't be any stress that those numbers there don't give you stress. And you buy a home that you can afford. I think before you had a home you couldn't afford and that's where the stress came from.

So, owning a home is a good thing. that owning a home is not necessarily stressful. Paying too much and spending more than I have on a home, that's what causes stress. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 116. My Fiancé Broke Off Our Engagement Because Of My Money Habits | February 5, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, [music] we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by my good pal Rachel Cruz [music] and we're taking your calls at88255225.

[music] Rita is in Louisville up first. What's going on?

>> Hi. Um I'm calling to uh

I don't to I I just went through a breakup over money and I want to figure

out how to heal from it and move forward. >> Oh, so sorry. How long was the relationship? um a couple of months we had just gotten engaged. >> Oh, what happened?

>> Um so my um my I guess now ex fiance is uh like

he is a very uh like anti-debt person.

Um which I agree with. I had um I have a

lot of debt. I have a lot of um I've

uh student loan debt and credit card debt um both from um taking care I put

everything on hold after my um dad died a number of years ago and I was taking care of um the family for a long time.

Um, and my my siblings were still in

school and >> um and I was I was 19 when when that

happened and um and just sort of got into um a lot of debt afterwards.

>> Yeah. >> And so >> um I have not it's so money is like very

emotional for me because I um I don't

have a good I don't have a good relationship with it and my family doesn't. And so when it came time to start going through the finances, um it

just it didn't go well.

>> Oh wow. He So he panicked. Did he panic around the amount of debt there is or did he panic of of your current you know

your current way of seeing money and how you deal with money currently?

>> It was it was over the behavior. Um the

the number itself wasn't concerning to him. It was it was the um it was the

behavior and my relationship with it.

>> Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, he ended it.

Was there any um was there any conversation around, hey, Rita, you know, if I'm going to if I'm going to go down this road of marriage, I want us to be on the same page. I want us to be a team. You know, would you would you be open and consider handling money differently? Like did he give you options or was it a pretty like closed case?

>> It was it started off with some options but it ended up being pretty closed case. >> Okay. >> How old are you?

>> 28. >> How many serious relationships have you had?

>> I've been um I've dated seriously for a

couple I don't know a couple of relationships. I had um a 5-year relationship in college and then um 3

and 1/2 years in my 20s and then earlier

20s um and then this was the this was

the most recent relationship.

>> Okay. So, not your first heartbreak, but this one was the most serious in terms of hey, we're going to this is leading towards marriage and he's the one kind of thing. >> Yeah, very much so. Yeah. >> And what what are your current money habits that he was like, I'm out. I can't do this. Um he was concerned

because so I have I I moved recently for

uh a job and my my family moved with me and I I knew because we were selling our house that I was going to have to take

sort of a short-term hit to to move um

before the household and my family could move out here with me. So um he was

concerned that after I had like even

after I had left my house that I had still acrewed some debt. Um and um

the Oh my gosh. Um

>> I did Yeah, I I And but I have So I'm

I'm doing the baby steps right now. I'm in baby step two. Um, and I have my

emergency fund saved and I'm paying down my my smallest debts right now.

>> Um, >> so that was that. Yeah. So, so I am

making progress. Um, but it I guess it

maybe it wasn't enough progress or I don't I don't really know the flavor now. Um, but it's sort of like my my

worst fear has always been like I because the situation with my family has been really bad for a long time financially, I have had a long-standing fear that I have no control over my money and sort of like brought it back up again. >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. He like broke up with the the most vulnerable part of you in your fear. Yeah. >> Did your why is your why did your family move with you? What's the what's going on there? Um my so my um my sister moved

we my sister and I moved to the same um location to get she got married and then

um I moved out here for a job and my mom who is >> um somewhat retired um sold the family

house back where we were um in our hometown um to move out as well um

because she wanted to be close to her grandkids. >> Was any of that a red flag for him? Yes.

>> Okay. Yeah. I'm just trying to place because it's interesting to talk to you, Rita, because I I'll be very honest with you. You're kind of on the end of you're kind you're the person in the relationship that we usually don't get the call from.

We usually get the call probably from the ex fiance who's like, "Hey, >> I'm engaged. I'm nervous with these money habits." You know what I mean? Like, should I continue? You know what I mean?

So, to get the person that got broken up with because of the money, we don't usually get we don't get that side. So, I'm trying to in my head because I want to be on your team, right? I'm like, I want to be able to to help you and us help navigate this.

And broke off a great thing too early. I I don't know, and I probably won't know in this call, but I'll just >> And you may never know. And that's the hard truth is you can replay this a thousand ways and it's not going to get you any closer to your future. And so, the you asked, "How do I heal?" Well, learn from what broke and rebuild trust in yourself and then create the habits and become the person that you want to be.

The person who changes your family tree and actually gets out of debt and doesn't use it anymore. And so this just might be one of those fork in the roads where you look back and go, man, that was a pivotal time in my life. >> So painful. Yeah.

>> And it's not a fun way to learn the lesson, but now you know and you can do better. And so I think a lot of this is your own healing journey of, you know, it's counseling in Jesus. That's what's going to heal you at this point on top of the good budgeting habits and getting out of debt and >> yeah and I think what's hard staying true to your plan >> is money can become such an identity marker in us and it shouldn't be you know your money your money mistakes your net worth like none of this is who you are as a person right it's a reflection of our behaviors and our habits and all of it but in our society today it's become such an identity piece so I want you to break that apart from you that the money mistakes that I've made even the habits I'm in that are not great it's not who I am Who I am is something so centered that cannot be shaken, right?

And then that out of that flows a healthy Rita which hopefully in return has healthy boundaries with money is able to say no, is able to sacrifice and get out of debt and all of that.

identity and money and all of it. It's so closely linked into who you are and I would work at kind of starting to pull that apart because it's not who you are.

your net worth, your money mistakes, none of that is your identity and who you are. >> I keep hearing John Deloney in my head saying, "You are worth being well. You are worth being loved. You're a person who can have a healthy relationship." And a lot of this is detaching from maybe unhealthy family baggage and going, "Hey, I need to move on with my life.

There's been a lot of codependency that has been toxic and it's time. I need to grow." And so, I'm going to send you a copy of Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. She talks about the different money classrooms and how you grew up. I think it will be a part of your healing journey.

So hang on the line. That'll be our gift to you, Rita.

[music]

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Nancy is in [music] Witchah up next.

Nancy, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Thank you. >> How can we help today?

>> Well, um I've kind of gotten myself into the situation here. Um I I like cars too

much and this summer, this past summer, I I bought a car. It was just a a uh an

emotional decision.

uh bad decision, brand new car. Um and

with it a high payment and um at the

same time um trying to pay down about

$20,000 worth of uh uh credit card debt

that I've been just kicking down the road for for years, years and years.

>> How old are you? >> Um I never um I'm almost ready to

retire. Uh >> well, maybe not anymore.

>> Yeah, not anymore. I I am a CHD. Okay.

>> Um I single or married?

>> Uh single. >> Okay. >> So tell us about this vehicle. People want to know. Spill the tea. >> I know. What kind of cars does Nancy like? She said, "I love cars." I'm like, "Nancy, what kind of cars?" >> Oh, it's a a Bronos Sport, a 25 Bronos Sport. I um just fell in love with how

it looked and everything and it was a

stupid decision. And now I am regretting the payment. >> What's the balance and what's the payment?

>> Um the balance I owe about uh a little

under 25 uh,000 on it. I'm paying 3.85 a month.

Uh >> did you put some serious money down?

>> That's not terrible payment wise.

>> It's not terrible. No. I I had a trade that was uh >> Oh, >> you had another nice car. >> Bronco Sport. >> Yes. I had another Bronco Sport that I should have stuck with, but I got frustrated with its tech and in a moment

of stupidity besides upgrade to get the

better tech which you know >> what could you sell it for? >> More literally now >> um I have been able to get as high as an

offer as 272 from Carvana.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So I can almost get my money back.

So, >> how much how much do you make a year? >> Question is >> um uh 75 grand gross.

>> Awesome. Okay. Sorry. What's your question?

>> Uh question is um I I recently found um

a Honda Element, which I really love

those cars, um with like 130,000 miles

on it, but they're super super super uh

dependable reliable.

>> Uhhuh. And I found that for about 11

around 11,000.

Um, and it would when everything's all

all said and done, um, I'd be my payment would go to 198 a

month instead of the 3.85.

Um, but you know, then I'd have an older car with no warranty because if I add a

warranty to it, >> Nancy, >> please don't do any of this. We're playing the wrong games. >> Yeah, you're you're back in the same game. >> You're back at you're you're still you're just moving debt to debt. Smaller debt, but you're moving debt to debt. Do you have any money saved, Nancy? Any money at all that you can get to? Any cash? >> No. No.

>> No. No cash. No. Everything I go everything all everything extra. Every month I just pour into the debt trying to get ahead and then an emergency comes

along. >> Okay. How much extra are you putting towards your debt? Like if you were to stay current on all the credit cards and the car payment, how much extra would you have a month?

>> Only like 200.

>> Okay. >> And so that's why it's a chronic debt situation because things life keeps happening >> and I go backwards on the on the credit card. >> Are you bringing home like 4,500 a month? What is your take-home pay?

>> Um um it's because I have some stuff going in like pre-tax stuff going into

going out into a well paying off another

loan. That's another story. But it's almost paid off. >> You have a 401k loan or something?

>> Uh it's a I don't remember what you call it. It's not 401k. Uh 457. Is that does

that sound? >> Yeah. You took a loan against your retirement plan, >> your deferred >> compos. It'll be paid off as of next month. >> Mhm. >> Which will free up uh 350 bucks for a month.

>> Okay. So, 500.

>> Okay. So, here's what I want. Here's what I would do, Nancy. If I woke up in your shoes, um I would Yep. When that

gets freed up, you'll have around $500 of margin. Okay. I would go >> say that. I'm sorry. Could you repeat that? >> Yeah. you would have around $500 of margin right after this is paid off.

That frees up 300. You said you have about 200.

>> 500. I would go and find any kind of

work you could do. Even if it's driving Uber and your new Bronco, I don't care.

And I want you to make an extra $1,000 a month. Okay? >> So the So what's going to happen in two months? In two months, you're going to have an extra $3,000. If you can sell this Bronco still at 27,000, you'll have

2,000. That means you have $5,000 cash that I want you to go buy a car

>> and no more car payments. And no more car payments. And then you're going to be driving. You're awesome. I just looked up cars. I I looked up $3,000 car cars in Witchah just now on my phone.

>> Lots of options. They really are there.

I mean, and one of them was like a 2006 Volvo. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, you got to do some inspection. Be smart about it.

But like, you can get a cheap car that will last you for 12 months. That's all we're looking for. >> This is not your forever car. No, this is a 12-month car.

And you tell yourself that, you say, "Nancy, this is my 12-month car." Cuz you're going to start then working to get out of debt. And then once you have your credit card debt paid off, >> um, then you're going to be able to have so much freedom and so much margin to save up and buy a nicer car that Nancy wants. But I want you out of car payments, Nancy. This game is not working for you.

>> We need a big why here. And you said you wanted to retire.

>> Uh, well, I have a pension. Um and um I

have about uh 50,000

is all in in that 457.

>> How much is your pension going to be?

>> Um it's going to be around4,300

a month. >> Okay. So about what you're making now.

>> Yes. >> So let's make this a goal. Let's become completely debtree with a fully funded emergency fund as we enter retirement.

>> That's your goal. And which means I am not gonna quit working until I have a lot of financial peace and security in my life. And that becomes your why.

>> It sounds like you you've lived a few lives.

>> And so now is the time to go, what is this next chapter of NY's life going to look like? Is it trading in for a different car with a slightly lower payment while I still struggle in my 60s? Or is it, >> man, I don't have the dream car, but I have the dream retirement because I'm not making payments broke every month.

Exactly. >> Yeah. And Nancy, you really do. I I want to encourage you that, you know, to spontaneously go and buy a new car cuz you got frustrated.

>> There is you have to acknowledge that in yourself, right? Like you didn't go on Amazon and buy a new pair of like $12 earrings cuz you got mad or you know what I mean? You're like, I just want to feel good. I'm going to like this.

This is a big it's a big deal. You bought a car. You know what I mean? And it's not to shame you.

>> I was really frustrated. You're very Nancy was pissed. So she went and got a new car. Yes.

So I want you to acknowledge when those things come up in us. This is this is a Dave this is a Dave Ramsey quote for you. I heard this growing up in my house and on the show all the time. >> But >> but that there's a level of maturity that delays gratification.

Okay.

>> so adults, >> yes, >> devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good. And you're not a child.

You're not a child. No, >> you are a grown woman who is smart, who's hardwork. And I just want you to reframe some of these impulses that you're making. U cuz it's not just at the car lot. It's probably other places.

And really start to get disciplined in this area of your life, Nancy. Probably for the first time ever, you know, and it sounds crazy >> to do something big like this at 60 years old, but people do it every day.

>> People do it every day. So we if you hold on the line, Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you Every Dollar, which is our budgeting app. And I want you to to be engaged in it. I want you to create a monthly budget, Nancy.

I want you to dream and just do some just do some searching when you get off the phone with us. Just Google $5,000 cars in Witchah and just start to make peace with this this new future you have.

>> Yeah. Here here's the three words we need to take out of our vocabulary. I deserve it. I think you deserve financial peace. I think you deserve a great retirement, which means we need the delayed gratification to say no to the toys right now.

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If you've kicked debt to the curb, you deserve to celebrate on the Live Like No One Else cruise. You can hang out [music] with Dave Ramsey, all of us Ramsey personalities. March 14th through the 21st, 2027. We're going to the Western Caribbean, Bahamas, Jamaica, Grand Cayman, Cosmemell. It's going to be incredible. We had a great time last time we did. >> So fun. This is so fun. >> It really exceeded my expectations.

>> Me, too. And when we posted about it, I had so many comments of like, I didn't know you guys were doing a cruise. Well, >> now you know. >> Now you know. >> And you got time to budget for it. And here's the thing, because we've done this before, we gave early access to those folks. And so they're coming.

>> It's over half sold out. I mean, it's like, yeah, it's doing really well. >> Cabins are limited. This thing will sell out. And right now, you can save up to 300 bucks. 300 bucks off when you book by February 7th. All you need right now is a deposit to get your cabin locked in. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramseolutions.com/events to book your cabin and learn more. All right, Bri is in Indianapolis up next.

Bri, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. How are you >> doing? Great. How are you? I'm hanging in there. >> What's happening today?

>> Okay. Um, I've been I'm trying my best

not to get too anxious right now. Um, but I am currently going through a

divorce. [clears throat] >> I've been a stay-at-home mom for almost 11 years >> and I'm solely financially dependent on

my husband who is the sole provider. Um,

he I literally was just watching the video of Dave Ramsey talking about how

it is our money. Like my wife was a stay

home mom for how many years and it is our money. It is our house. It is our cars.

And I am pretty much in a emotionally

abusive and financially abusive relationship at the moment. and I'm worried about him

trying to financially cut me off.

Um, I mean, I already talked to lawyers.

I already have a petition going, but like I don't know if it's just the narcissistic part of him, the sociopathic part of him that he doesn't truly understand that we are one.

>> Well, and the state and the judge will will tell him that, >> right? But like I don't know if his lawyers are truly understanding that.

So, it's like he he current I'm stay at

home mom. I have three kids under nine.

Um I've worked little jobs here and there on the weekends, but nothing that was really substantial. Um I've worked for MLMs from home trying to make a little bit, but nothing has really been much. It's main mainly solely me taking care of the kids and he's the one who financially provides.

>> Um >> I just need to know what is the best way to legally like try to have him understand that like I I'm technically

entitled to Yes. child support, alimony,

401k, and pension.

>> Yes, >> I don't know any of the the totals of things he's willing. He's trying to like swindle and gaslight of pretty much saying, "Yes, I'm giving you the house.

Do you have child support? I I won't take the equity of the house, but don't touch my pension." And it's like, I

don't want to leave. I don't want to verbally agree to something that I don't have full calculations in front of me

before I agree to anything that's going to truly benefit me and what I'm legally entitled to in the end.

>> Well, the lawyers and the courts will will figure all that part out.

>> Okay. So right now it's it's how do you just keep yourself protected and safe right now in the interim until this all shakes out because as you know this could be months and months and months and drag out and back and forth. And so right now >> he's like and I'm not paying your legal fees anymore and he's pretty much trying to force me into getting a job instead

of staying at home with my our our three-year-old at the moment.

>> So take care of the household and the kids.

I don't I think it's all threats because he's just frustrated that >> is he paying currently anything right now in alimony or child support as you guys are going through the divorce proceedings? >> Not right now. No, currently we're still have a joint um >> okay >> joint checking account.

>> I don't even have access to that right now because it has to be unlocked through for the app wise. It has to be >> you can go to the bank if you're an owner on that account. You have access to it. I don't care what he did on the app.

>> Yeah. go down in person and get Yes. get what you need cuz if Yeah. If your name is on that account, you have as much right to it as as he does.

Yeah.

>> and he won't he won't Bri he won't save.

Yes. And if there's any what you said narcissism if there's any level of who he is and everything you've described he sounds like a horrible person. You're never going to convince him otherwise.

Okay. So I think there is I mean and again this is this is a bigger working through in your own than me just saying that out loud on a phone call here. But he's never going to understand. He never ever ever will give you the respect that you deserve. He's not giving you that.

He never has. It's what it sounds like. It's one of the reasons you're leaving him. >> Right. >> Um so what I would do >> of didn't want to go to therapy for the relationship, didn't want to go to counseling for drinking, didn't want to talk to. >> Yep. Yep. I know. So he he signed >> I'm putting my legal fees on a joint credit card.

I still have access to the debit and I'm still able to get groceries and stuff, but like he's literally limiting me saying only spend >> How is he paying for his legal fees?

>> He's paying it on a credit card as well, even though we have somewhat of money already in the council. >> Okay, so Bri, you need to sit down with your lawyer and if your lawyer sucks, you need a new one. But you guys need to you need to have a plan and you need to know your legal rights. Every state is different when it comes to divorce law, okay?

So I'm not we're not experts on that on on each state. You need to know what rights you have. And then you do have to understand, Bri, there will be a point where assets are divided. However they divide that courts, whatever you decide.

And there may be a time and it and it happens. Bri, this is the this is the heartbreak of when a life you had built >> is no longer there that you may have to get a job, Bri. You may have to sell he may give you the house and the equity and you may look at everything and say, "This is too stressful. I can't handle the property tax and the HOA fees." You may have to sell the home eventually and downsize to create financial stability for yourself.

Okay? So, there's going to be probably in your future some really really hard decisions that is not how you saw your life going, you know, 3 years ago, but it's going to but but what you're working towards is a life of peace relationally out of this marriage that's been abusive and creating something for yourself.

So I the custody will most likely be like a 9010. >> Okay. >> To you. >> Yeah.

>> Which means you're going to I'm pretty much >> which means you're going to have a big paycheck coming in every Yeah. You'll be fighting for that alimony and that child support then. Yes. So all of that should be reconciled and you need to feel good about that.

But you need to know legally where you stand for you to have some peace, right? Because I feel like the pieces right now, which I don't blame you. I'd be in complete chaos, too. The pieces are all over.

I'm hiding all of it because I don't I need to be strong for my kids. >> Yes. Yeah. Well, yeah.

I Yeah. So, I I would though I think facts here are going to help you have some peace to know what rights you have in this and and he doesn't get to I think the biggest fear you have is he's going to just leave in the middle of the night with nothing and and you're left with literally nothing. That's not going to happen from a legal aspect. the the courts will say >> and or just like the fact that I've >> I I I didn't go to college so I don't have a degree.

Yeah. And I have nothing for my name >> when it comes to 401k or pension or anything.

>> But it's like he doesn't understand that his money is my money.

>> There there's going to be no guilt here.

You are entitled to probably half or

more of the assets. And so there's no guilt there. You said, "Well, he provided for the house." Did you not provide for the house the last 11 years?

>> I think he doesn't see it that way.

>> It doesn't matter what he I don't care what he thinks. I'm just telling you, you need to release the baggage of, "Well, I don't deserve this." Cuz now it's taking a turn to where you're feeling guilty for things you do. You don't need to feel guilty about.

>> Okay? >> This is what narcissists do. They gaslight and make you think you were the problem the whole time and you're the one that made this all enough. I've given you everything you wanted. This is what they do on the way out. They have no other cards to play. So they just try to drag you down into the muck with them. >> Okay, >> that's all he's doing. So on top of all the lawyer stuff, you know, counseling and therapy is going to help as well.

>> And and I want you to paint a picture for like in the next 5 years once you have some facts like where is Bri going to be even in the next two years because again I don't know what's going to happen, Bri, but there may be a situation where you are a receptionist at a dental office. I'm making this up, [music] right? For for 4 day for 4 days a week and you're, you know, when and when your three-year-old starts kindergarten, you drop them off at school. [music] You may go to work and you may bring home a paycheck, but you are capable, Bri.

You're capable of doing something and earning money if it comes [music] down to that. Okay? So, just know that in yourself.

It is. And so, you're going to survive this. But getting some facts [music] on your side, I think, is going to bring you some peace right now in the midst of all this chaos. But we are so sorry.

[music] Call us back if you if you need more help.

[music]

Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time, we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know? >> Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars.

And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular proper maintenance.

>> Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So, when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no-brainer. And they've been absolutely great. We're excited to recognize Christian Brothers as the official auto repair partner of the Ramsay Show.

Christian Brothers keeps things simple, honest, and transparent. Every repair is backed by their nationwide nice difference warranty. 3 years or 36,000 mi, whichever helps you more.

>> Listen, Dave, I'm first to admit I'm not into cars like you are, but the thing about Christian Brothers is I feel just as confident going in there. They're not trying to upsell me. I feel 100% confident that I'm going to get the service that I need. Hey, if you want your car to last and stay on track with the baby steps, trust Christian Brothers. Go to cbac.com/ramsey

to find your local shop, schedule service, and get an exclusive Ramsey discount. 10% off your visit up to $250.

>> Yeah, that's cbacc.com/ramyc store for details.

Donald is in Toronto up next. Donald, what's going on?

>> Hey, how are you guys? >> Great. What's your question today?

>> Hey, so uh just how to get comfortable with using my emergency fund when an emergency has happened as I recently got to baby step four.

>> Cool. Congrats. >> Nice. >> How much do you have in the emergency fund? Uh so I have 15 in there and

slight job uh not change recently but better security recently. So that may be a factor as we go into this.

>> Right. Okay. So let's talk about this emergency. Give us the most recent one where you went I just can't dip into that. >> I got hit by a bus yesterday and uh >> gracious Donald [laughter] stop.

Are you being for real right now?

>> I actually am. Yes. I'm not lying to you at all. I'm what? How are you?

>> I'm okay. Luckily, the incident was completely fine and uh that's why I'm much more focused on the finances at this point. Um because it's like

everyone's okay. Uh yeah, I got checked out. I'm all right. >> Oh my gosh, I got hit by a bus.

>> No one can ever say, "Wow, man. Feels like I got hit by a bus today." Donald's like, "Uh" >> Donald's like, "No, I really did. >> I raise you." Okay. >> Oh my gosh. Well, that would be a reason for the emergency fund. I think we can all agree on that. Okay.

>> So, just answer these three questions.

Is it urgent? Is it necessary? Is it unexpected? I think we can all agree getting hit by a bus is all three of those things. You with me? >> I think it's a little unexpected. I think check that off. Yes. >> You didn't plan for it. There was no maintenance you could have done to avoid it. >> Maybe look both ways, but no.

>> Now, is was there police involved? Like, are they going to cover your ER bills?

It was the city bus.

>> Uh, it was a city bus. Um, unfortunately

due to how old the vehicle is, like it's it's a beater. Um, because of it how the

insurance claim would work. >> Oh, your car got hit by a bus.

>> You were in a car. Donald, >> can you lead with that next time, bud?

>> We thought you I thought you were walking across the street. [laughter] >> That's why I was talking about the car.

>> Okay. >> Oh, Donald, you almost gave us a heart attack. >> No wonder. Okay. >> Okay. I'm glad we thought the same thing. George, >> you tell me. Hey, I got hit by a bus yesterday. I assume you were walking.

>> Okay. So, Donald, you were in a car.

Thank God. Okay. So, the car um is not

Wait. So, go back. Tell us about the car car situation.

>> So, car is old, but it's in obviously not workable shape anymore. It's done for. Okay. >> Um yes, I expected a car upgrade to come in the future. I got 4K aside for that, but I obviously now I need to kind of

pull the trigger on it much earlier than expected. >> Gotcha. >> Is insurance going to write you a check?

I can't really get anything out of the insurance because my uh my comprehension and collision wasn't on there. I had enough insurance to be legal. I didn't have the proper insurance to get much out of this because my car is so old. Uh it would basically they're just going to write it off and then I might get $2,000 out of it if I'm if I'm lucky.

>> But again, because I don't have collision, it'd be a lot of fighting with the city. And we all know that's never easy no matter your municipality.

>> Yeah. Sure. Sure. Okay. So, you're just saying just it's a wash. It was an old car. I have money saved. How do I use this emergency fund?

>> Yeah. >> Yep. Okay. So, um, what kind of So, you

you you're obviously low maintenance when it comes to the type of car because you're you currently driving an older car, right? So, how much how much money do you think you need to have a car?

Maybe it's a little bit of an upgrade that'll last you longer, but like what price range feels right to you

>> for safe reliability purposes? Um, our markets out here, I would say between 8

and 10 is going to get me a car that's between 2015 and 2020 and somewhere

between the 60 to 100,000 milei range.

>> Okay. So, take the Yeah, I would take the 4K and then 5K of your emergency fund. Go get a 9,000. You know, >> that still leaves 10 in your emergency fund. And then you begin the process of replenishing the e emergency fund and that's how you feel better about using it. It's not a this thing is depleted forever. It's all right, now I got to rebuild it. That's not fun. But hey, at least it's an inconvenience instead of a crisis and you're going into debt on a credit card at 25% APR.

>> So that's the move.

>> Okay. >> And the truth is >> kind of like >> the the better you get at this stuff, the less emergencies you're going to have. Like when you're broke, you have everything is an emergency. And as you get to this place, baby step four, you buy a better car.

You have nicer stuff that you can maintain better and pay for, you know, repairs and all that. And so I think it's sort of in your head that you're going to have to dip into this emergency fund all the time. I can't tell you the last time I used my emergency fund because at some point you go, "Ah, we can probably just cash flow that out of next month's budget. It'll be fine." >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So use some of this for it though.

So hear us say that, please. Please.

Yes. To go get >> like use enough to make sure that it's reliable, you know. Don't don't go good and crazy. Obviously, >> you don't need a $25,000 car because yours got totaled.

So that's what most people do is they go to the dealership and say, "I need a brand new car because look what happened last time I had a beater car. I got hit and it got totaled." >> Yeah. And and that's what like my brother and others have already said to me about like possibly paid in the future, not now. And I'm like that just doesn't fit my lifestyle.

>> Totally. Yeah. So >> do you pay cash? >> Yeah. Take four or 5,000 out and then Yep. >> How much do you make a year?

>> Um 60.

>> Awesome. I would work on upgrading that $9,000 car in a year or two.

So, set a scing fund to go and put 500 bucks a month.

>> Yeah. Yeah. We were trying for $15,000 car and then this obviously made it that I couldn't I was planning to be able to do it by October of the end of this year, but now here we are where I kind of got to I guess finance myself as compared to finance with somebody else.

>> Exactly. You are the bank and it's 0% interest with no payments. That's a deal, my friend. So, thank you for the call. I'm glad you're okay. >> I'm glad that you were in a car. Next time you tell the story, make sure you lead with, "Hey, a bus hit my car." >> He probably thinks we're just crazy.

He's probably like, "Duh." >> I was just The mental image was just, it was like replaying over and over my mind of what happened to poor Donald. Okay.

Glad he's okay. We're going to get through this. Thanks for the call.

Crystal's in Boise up next. What's going on, Crystal?

>> Hi. Um, so as a family, we've been reading Total Money Makeover and we've been working to implement the principles and just started Baby Step 2. Um, but my

question today is regarding term life insurance. So, I've had a whole life policy with a term writer for a million-doll death benefit since like 2016. Has a monthly premium of uh $315 a

month. Um, and I called Xander, found out that I can get a 20-year term policy for a million dollars for $104 a month.

>> Awesome. Um, I'm 45, my spouse is 55,

our kids are 16 and 17. So, my question

is, do I do the 20-year term or should I do less with the kids being older?

>> It's a good question. You need life insurance until you no longer need life insurance. So, think about the kids are grown, house is paid off, retirement's funded, your spouse would be okay without your income. And so, if that's 15 years for you guys, saying, "Hey, the house is definitely going to be paid off. We're going to have a serious nest egg. The kids are grown and gone. They're not going to be relying on us. I would say 15 years sounds a lot closer.

>> Okay. What would be a serious nest egg?

>> I mean, I'm just saying if something were to happen, is your spouse going to be okay? >> Okay. >> The kids don't need to inherit $5 million to be okay. They're going to be just fine. It's if something happened, you lost your income, now we have this policy plus this retirement. Okay. They will be okay if they need to take some time off or not work.

>> Okay. So I I would go 15 based on what you've just told me. I don't have all the >> both Crystal, you and your husband.

>> Um, yes.

>> Okay. Yeah. Because if something, you know, realistically, if you're past that 15 and the house is paid off, there's no debt and you guys have, I don't know, three I'm just making up a number. 300,000 in retirement and you still

wanted to work, you know, you still had the ability to make an income if you needed to, right? So, um, that factors into it, too.

Okay, >> I'm proud of you. I know that hurts because you've paid into this whole life policy for what, 10 years now?

>> Yes. >> Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry to whoever sold that to you. Who Who was it? Was it a family friend?

>> Yes, >> it always is. It's always that >> they are. They are though. Everyone we talk to like, well, my brother-in-law or my cousin or you know. Yeah.

>> And it's always a dude. Let's make that clear. Some dude out of college.

>> 99% >> went, "Oh, dude, I got this sick job. I sell insurance." The women do the MLMs.

The men do the >> We all have our toil in life. The guys go insurance. It's cool.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Oh my gosh. Well, it's a good reminder to anyone listening out there. If anybody relies on your income, you need term life insurance. Not whole life, not permanent life insurance. Term. So that's for a specific amount of time. 15 to 20 years is good for most people.

Maybe 25 if you know you're really young or you got young kids. Cuz the goal is, hey, once this term expires, we are self-insured. meaning we don't need this policy anymore. We're going to be okay.

And you want to make sure that you get 10 to 12 times your annual income on that death benefit on that the face value of the policy. So you make 100 grand, you need a million to 1.2 in term

coverage so that you could invest that money and the growth of that could help create the income and replace it. That's all insurance is. It's a risk transfer to replace your income. Xander are the folks that we trust, the people I have mine through, my wife has hers through Xander. You can call them at [music] 800 3564282 or just jump on zener.com. Get

it done today.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

Protect yourself. Protect your income.

Protect your family.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel [music] joined by best-selling author and my co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruz.

We're taking your calls at88255225. [music]

Up next, we head to Charlotte who is in Columbia, South Carolina. Charlotte, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, how are you? >> We are doing great. How can we help today?

>> Um, my question is, well, my husband and

I are we have $100,000 of student loan

debt that we just started paying off and

my dad officers that he would help pay this debt off. However, in the last year, we've had to cut time.

>> Sorry, you're breaking up with us, Charlotte. Can you speak directly in your phone or try to get to a better spot? I heard you're 100,000 student loans, dad said he would help pay them off and you recently had to cut him off.

>> Yes, we did. We had to cut ties with him >> and so we are now >> like the relationship is over.

>> Okay. Yes. >> Got it. >> Correct. Yes. So, we are now just

looking into this debt

now of for our own to pay off. And my

question is, what tips would you have to pay this off quickly? I don't want this to be looming over our heads.

>> Yeah. >> For longer than it needs to.

>> We agree. >> Uh, what did you get your degrees in?

>> It My husband got a law degree. So, that

>> Oh, gotcha. Okay. Perfect. Is he practicing law right now?

>> Yes, he is. >> Okay. And how much is he making a year?

>> He is making a little over 100K.

>> Okay. And what are you making a year?

>> I'm just making a little over 20K. I'm working part-time. We just had our first child back in October.

>> Okay. A congratulations.

>> Thank you. >> Um Okay, great. So, um, yeah. I mean,

the the most efficient way to do this,

Charlotte, is um is if you have multiple

student loans, do you or is it all one loan? >> It's just one loan. >> Okay. Yeah. So, it's just going to be, you know, taking >> attacking the mountain, throwing as much as you can every month on top of the minimum payment, just throwing as much as you guys can. So, it's make as much as we can every month, spend as little as we can, and use that difference, that margin to knock out this debt fast.

>> Because if you guys make 120 a year, if you lived on 60,000 Charlotte, and you guys basically had no lifestyle, you're just like, "Listen, we are just going to just live on what we got um and you

threw 60 at it. I mean, in a year and a half, you guys will have this paid off." >> Okay. Okay. >> So, it's just you got to live like a broke law student and not like a lawyer.

And that might be a I don't know what your lifestyle is like, but that's going to be a big shift.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Do you guys have margin every month in your budget?

>> We definitely could. We could have more.

Um >> Yeah. >> So, make it a goal. Let Well, could you this month with the next paychecks coming in throw $4,000 on top of the

minimum at the debt?

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> You're done in less than two years. I mean, that's the math of it. There's no like life hack shortcut. Now, if you were doing the debt snowball and you had multiple debts, we'd say attack the little one first, minimums on the rest, and create some progress. This is a little bit harder cuz it's just you're it's like paying off a mortgage. You're just staring down this mountain going, "All right, I would celebrate the wins.

Every $10,000 you pay off, you guys have a little fun, whatever you decide to do." And that'll keep you motivated along the way. Maybe make it visual.

Maybe you have like, you know, rings and chains across the house and or on the fridge. Whatever you guys decide to do, making it visual, having a deep why.

Maybe this child is your deep why of I want this kid to grow up in a house that doesn't know debt, that has financial stability.

>> Yeah. And it probably is there's probably a painful element too, right?

That it came you guys are doing this because of a relationship that was fractured. So every you know what I mean? It's kind of like the sad reminder too um of having this around of like why we have to pay this off. So there is a part too of like I just want to add >> you don't want it to drag out. >> I just want it out of my life. You know, >> definitely. >> Is your husband on board with this?

>> Yes, he is. We're in the very beginning

stages of really talking about it, which I feel I feel behind because it's been

almost a year that we've had to cut ties with my dad. But it really does just kind of feel like the dust has now settled more with that and then with having our son. But so yeah, I we're

just in the beginning stages of like really coming up with a plan.

>> Tell me this, Charlotte. He wasn't Your dad wasn't paying your husband's debt for law school though, just yours, right?

>> He was going He never paid any debt

because when all this came out with my

dad, we had just like maybe for two

weeks been put on a payment plan for the

debt. >> Okay. However, >> yeah, but was was the expectation that he was going to pay your husband's law degree?

>> He had said he would.

>> Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. So, it was the whole day cuz I was thinking is if he just promised your debt and yours is 10,000 of the 100,000.

You know, I was going to ask why you didn't address, but he but it was said out loud that it would even >> So, this wasn't on your radar and all of a sudden relationship's broken and now you've got 100,000 sitting in your lap to pay off >> on top of the grief. And so, this is a lot. Yeah, it is sad >> and it's going to be it's going to be tight, but you know, less than two years, the baby won't remember it. It'll be a memory for you guys.

Remember that time we worked our tails off for 2 years to get to a place of financial stability, and you will not regret the sacrifice you're making right now. I'll tell you that much. >> Yeah. Yeah.

high a highish amount of money in a CD

account. That's >> a two-year CD account. So, I don't think we can't touch it for like another year,

but how much is in there? Guess we're not >> um like a little over 75,000.

>> Fantastic. Well, I would also look at what the penalties are for taking it out before it matures cuz if you're going to pay more interest in student loans >> Mhm. >> than the penalty is, then it's worth cashing out.

>> Okay. >> And that gets you out out of debt so much faster.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> What was that money earmarked for?

We didn't we didn't really have any sort

of plan for it other than just to kind of keep it in there and then maybe once it was done divvied up more. We were

probably going to buy another house or like sell the house where now buy a little bit bigger house as our family grew. >> Um >> we that money actually was given to us

from the death of my grandfather. So it was kind of unexpected. So we really didn't have much of a plan and then it was like we got that my husband started paying the student loan debt and then everything happened with my dad. So we didn't >> I haven't thought about it that much.

>> Okay. >> Which got well the other part you have to grieve is hey we this was going to be like house upgrade money and now it's paying off debt money which is less exciting. And so >> I would do that in a heartbeat. % I would look into that tonight to see what the penalties are >> and then depending on how aggressive you guys want to move up in house still look at cutting back some lifestyle and and saving up some margin and say okay if we were to replenish this um you know you could do that in a year and a half still and get that money back but I would go ahead and yes I >> this new plan is we're out of debt 6 months by the summer we're debtree >> yes I would do that in a heartbeat and then you guys save your income and decide how quickly you want to save how slow but no one else is determining that for you.

Or you guys could say, "No, we're good." And for the next year, we're going to just enjoy our life and >> Yeah. And maybe you can quit the part-time job after you get the emergency fun. >> No one's making you do it where the student loan. You have to make [music] this payment.

>> Yeah. Life is going to be on your terms soon enough. And so far, life has just been happening to you and everything's being unexpected. And I hope soon you can start to get intentional and and happen to your life.

Charlotte, we're rooting for you.

>> [music]

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Scott is in Bowling Green up next.

[music] Scott, what's going on?

>> Hey George, Rachel, how are y'all today?

>> We're wonderful. How can we help you?

Hey, um I am completely debtree.

>> I have uh >> Yeah, you are the core.

>> Great job. >> Baby step seven paid off house.

>> Paid off house. Yes, sir.

>> Everything. Oh my gosh. Well done.

>> I could tell in his voice he had an ease and like a he was kind of flexing like >> I am debtree. >> How old are you?

>> I am 65 years old.

>> Wonderful. >> Good for you. >> Okay. What's your question today?

Um, I'm at that point. So, you know,

well, let me go back. I do have to replace some money back into my fully um

emergency fund, my fully funded emergency fund. >> Okay. >> Because I pulled that out to pay the house off about $12,000. So, >> nice. >> Anyways, a little over 12,000. But, uh, my fully um funded emergency fund is my

goal is 50,000 there. and I've got about

25 into it right now. So, I got to put

>> 25 more into it and I'm I'm completely out. So, >> couple things here. My questions are at

this point which I've already got an a traditional IRA that has about

214 215,000 in it and I've got two

mutual funds that was probably about 36,000 in that. Um I want to be able to

go in to put more money into mutual

funds. I think uh from you know the total money over there was something about a high cap, low cap, midcap and a

foreign cap or a foreign mutual fund.

>> Yep. >> And I want to learn more about that and then also put some I guess part of

that 50,000 into a high yield interest savings account. >> Yeah. Um, is that are these the smart moves that I need to make? And also, I want to look at maybe doing a Roth IRA

to kind of balance out the taxable versus the non-t taxable.

>> Yeah, I would be focused on those retirement accounts right now. You know, taking advantage of of those tax advantage accounts first. And so that would be the strategy here. And do you have a 401k through your employer?

>> No. No. It's uh something I've done for the past 15 years. Uh, >> you're self-employed in the days and >> uh, no I'm not. I work for a company but we don't have a 401k program.

>> Okay. No retirement program.

>> I have done that all on my own over the past 15 years. >> Good for you. >> Okay. So, your options would be then maxing out that IRA every year. What is your income? >> Yep.

>> Uh, [clears throat] my income is about 100 grand. >> Fantastic.

Okay. So, maxing out the IRA is a great start. That'll get you pretty far. And I would keep that emergency fund in a high yield savings account and you can open one up with our friends at Fairwind's Credit Union online on your phone within minutes and keep that parked there.

Well, you know, I think the rates are currently over 3% and so you're at least keeping up or beating inflation with that money instead of it sitting at 0% in your local bank savings account.

>> So, that's a piece of homework.

>> Fairwinds Credit Union. You can go to fairwinds.org/ramsey.

Okay. And they've got a bundle there with an online checking and the high yield savings and it's no fee on that.

And they're they've been an awesome partner because they have the same goal in mind. They want people to be like Scott, financially free with a paid off house.

>> Okay. >> So you've got that. So once you've funded the emergency fund, parking the high yield, maxing out the IRA, the next

move would be a non-retirement account if you've run out of retirement options.

And so like you said, those mutual funds and a taxable brokerage account would be the move. And we do say to diversify across four different types. So a mutual fund just is a giant basket of stocks.

And we're going to even go further by going into a growth and income fund which that would be kind of your your high cap. Then you've got the growth fund which is more the mid aggressive growth which is the lower and then the international fund to balance it out because what we've seen which especially 2000 to 2010 that period the US market took a dive and the international market kind of balanced it out. And so that's what you want to kind of derisk your portfolio.

>> That's kind of the foreign account, right, that you were asking about, Scott? Yeah. >> Do you work with a financial adviser or have you ever? >> I do.

I do. I've been working for with this guy for about 15 years. That's what kind of got me started on things and doing this. That's why I've been a matter of fact, I was in Sam's the other day and he was walking through Sam's and we got to talking and I told him where I was at and everything.

He's like, "Cool, let's work. Let's talk." You know? So >> awesome. Yeah.

You're in a different place now. >> Baby step seven, it's live and give like no one else. Build wealth.

You could in, you know, pay cash for real estate if you wanted to do that. The world is your oyster at this point, >> especially making 100 grand with no value. >> How much is your house worth, Scott?

>> Uh, it's about 325,000.

>> Okay. Amazing. Well done. Yeah, >> that's so great. >> What is your plan for retirement to sort of replace your income and cut your expenses when >> work? just work. I'm going to work until the good Lord says, "Hey, look, you can't work no more." Or or somebody um

and I'll just say, "This pisses me off." And I say, "No, >> there." [laughter] >> So far, that hasn't happened. That's good. But yeah, that's that's the Dave Ramsey strategy is why would I stop working? I like what I do. Which is great. >> Um and so maxing out those retirement accounts, if you work another 10 years, I mean, that nest egg will just continue to grow with compound growth. And so we are rooting for you to have an awesome retirement.

Yeah, that's that's one thing I know too is I mean I'm I'm [clears throat] 65 now. At 67 I can double dip. So I can go in and you know get my regular paycheck and then also get you know draw social security and that's just more money that I can stack. >> Yeah.

And the longer you delay it the more you'll get in that social security. So if you don't need it just, you know, kick it down the road and take it at 70 to to get the max amount. And so you've got a lot of options here. And you have catchup contributions which is great because of your age.

You can actually put more into those retirement accounts than the average person, the young bucks like me. Love it.

I love talking to Scott. That was awesome. >> John is in Cincinnati up next. John, how can we help?

>> Hey, George. How you doing? >> Doing great. >> Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Great. Um, so my question is, uh, me and my wife were just hit with a a little under a $15,000 bill, um, for a a car that was

repoed that she had signed off on, um,

in in the previous relationship.

>> Oh, she was the co-signer and her and her ex didn't pay and got repoed and now it dinged her credit. >> And now the deficit is back to you at 15,000. [clears throat] >> Exactly. >> Gross. I'm sorry.

>> Yeah, it's okay. Um the the dilemma is though uh we're nine nine weeks pregnant

um with our first baby. Um we have about

it's s super exciting. Um but we're unsure how to tackle this um you know

this deficit. >> Uh we don't know if we throw you know some emergency fund at it.

>> How much do you have in savings? >> Fight it. >> Uh about 10,000 in an emergency fund.

>> Okay great. And you guys have no other debt?

No, we do. So, we uh I owe 6,000 on my

truck. Um she has a car that we owe 20

on and then some student loans. So, we have a a significant amount of debt that we were paying on >> before the baby and then we kind of pivoted into saving, you know, trying to stack up some money for the baby. Okay.

>> So, we're a little unsure on what direction to go in right now.

>> Yeah. Well, the good news is you don't need to just keep saving for nine months until the baby's here. you don't need $50,000. I would figure out what your, you know, out-ofpocket max is going to be on your insurance, your deductibles, and make sure that you at least have that as your baseline. And then I would move on and hit play on the debt snowball.

>> Okay? >> And so smallest to largest balance, and when you get to that $15,000 bill, you'll get there.

>> Got it. >> And maybe they'll settle at that point.

I don't know. If you say, "Hey, I've got 10,000 lumpsum cash or 5,000. Will you

take that?" >> Got it.

But you've got how much in student loans?

>> Uh about 20. >> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> A little over a hundred. >> Oh, fantastic. >> Will that change at all after baby? Like will is that is her income part of that?

>> It is. Yeah. Uh she makes about 40.

She's a teacher. Um and I make about 70.

>> Okay. Great. >> Will she go back to work, do you think, or will she stay home?

>> We're unsure. Um >> we Yeah, we're we're trying to figure that out. That's all a little new to us.

>> Yeah, totally. No, that's great. Yeah, I would definitely keep a big emergency fund in place considering um baby's on the way. [music] So yeah, what George said, if you get to a comfortable spot that you feel good and you want to throw some extra cash to get that credit card paid off, or I'm okay if you guys pause it [music] and do stork mode is what we call it, where you kind of just stay current, but you just keep saving and saving and saving and saving.

And then once baby's here, mom is good, everyone's good, throw all you have at the debt, which means you'll probably knock out, [music] I would say, the truck, I'm sorry, the credit card and uh the $15,000 bill for sure and maybe part of that truck. So, [music] uh, either way, you guys are doing great.

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[music]

[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz.

[music] And in studio this segment, we have a very special guest. You know him, you love him, Mr. Ken Coleman.

>> It's always good to be here, George. I got to get my ears in. I I wasn't quite ready. That's fine. Hey, take your time.

It's your show, Ken. >> We're here for you, Ken. >> Well, here's what we're doing. Here's why we thought Ken should join. We are about to do some 2026 financial predictions. >> I love a good prediction. >> And we're going to play this back at the end of 2026 and find out who was right cuz Rachel's very competitive.

>> That is a That is right. We are going to do that. >> We should. >> I think we should. >> Okay. >> You guys are in trouble cuz it's going to be two zero. Ken, >> you get >> Now, if we're wrong, we're like, you know, the weatherman. It's like it's fine. and you get to keep your job. So, there's no stakes here. We're just having fun. Don't hold us to this, but here's what we think will happen for your money and in the economy.

>> Okay. I'm going to go first. >> All right. >> Okay. I think mortgage rates will

continue to slowly go down.

>> Okay. >> That was a safe prediction. I like that.

>> We started at around 7% and now it's

sitting around 5.48% on a 15-year fix is

what we've pulled. >> That's actually incredible. >> That's pretty great. Like, people are waiting. I mean, that's a that's a pretty good. So, I think we're going to slowly throughout the year keep seeing that crude. I don't think we'll get back to 2 to 3%. But I'm going to see I'm

going to rest in the low fives, high fours. >> Yeah, the the Fed has been moving pretty slowly on this, Ken, with good reason.

They you know, you can't do it too fast.

That'll mess up the economy. And you can't do it too slow. And so, they're just incrementally >> not to mention doing their thing. political tension that has gotten fever pitch as in like WWE wrestling match

back and forth between President Trump and Jerome Pal. So Pal expected to step down. So new chairman expected in 2026.

What will that do?

>> I I actually I don't agree with Rachel on that one. Wow. You think they're going to go up? >> I think they're going to hold. Okay.

>> So you think it's going to be at 5.48% in December of 2026? That's what I'm holding you to. >> Can't wait for the >> I think what what anyone would call a hold, I think it's going to hold. >> All right. >> Okay. >> Moving on. Here's mine. Sports betting will continue sabotaging young men's lives. >> You guys are really going out on the end of it. >> Again, it's a safe prediction, but we've just been seeing more and more of this.

>> The stupidest >> and as as more states legalize sports betting, as more people jump onto these apps and the companies ramp up their marketing, >> they make so much money. >> That's right. 2025 Pew Research study found 36% of men under 30 had placed a sports bet within the past year. Yeah.

So, it's becoming normalized. It's just socialized gambling. It's, hey, I'm having fun with the buddies and we're kind of going to see who's going to win the parlay. That's right.

And this is a higher rate than any other age group. So, these young men under 30 are going to get hit >> who already broke. I can tell you as a father of a high schooler, >> I hear stories all the time of Chase's buddies. >> Oh my goodness.

>> Wow. >> And they're betting on crazy stuff like stuff you wouldn't think. It's not just a >> Well, it becomes some kind of fun game of like, is he going to be wearing blue or red today? What shoes is he going to be wearing?

It is so sad.

>> It's disheartening. So stupid.

>> Wow. Mama Rachel with a strong opinion.

It's the most unattractive thing. It's unattractive. >> I don't own a home. The Oh my god, the housing market.

You heard it here first. >> You can own a home, but I'm going to go and freaking sports bet cuz I'm not athletic enough to play the game. So, I'm going to have to >> Can't afford to take my girl out cuz I've lost a parlay last night. So, >> I like that.

>> No. >> All right. Don't. >> Very good.

You guys went really really safe. >> I think it's so crazy. >> I'm going to step out a little bit. This might not be popular prediction.

Let's talk about Airbnbs. All right. Became a very popular real estate venture. As you know, everybody thought this is my path to prosperity.

through a pretty complex shift. In other words, demand still remains pretty strong. But what we're seeing is is the cheaper Airbnbs, less cost, smaller,

smaller areas, you will see a continual decline, but your luxury listings will go up. >> Oh, and the people who have the money will still be spending, but other people are more price conscious. >> That's right. So, if you're in the Airbnb game, if you've got a luxury listing, I think you're probably in good shape.

The demand will remain strong, >> which is a small percentage. small percentage. But if you have overleveraged yourself, do not think that you're going to eventually rebound in 2026. In other words, if you can sell, I'd sell.

>> Well, people just go, "Well, it's easy money.

Everybody got in the game thinking, "Oh, I'm going to buy a place down at the beach." So, anyway, too saturated, too much supply. That's why. There you go. No, it's the same dude that sports bets that's also on TikTok and it's like I own like eight Airbnbs and I'm like you are so annoying. >> Rachel, you're right. Rachel is exhausted by you young men. >> By the way, Rachel's coming for the bros today. She's got the bros.

>> I feel like y'all need a little shake.

>> I agree. >> Cuz you're not cool. >> She probably hates creatine, too.

>> I take creatine. >> Oh, >> in my protein shakes when I work out.

Good for you. The bros and you can agree on one thing at least. [laughter] All right, here's the next one. I think the stock market will actually stay relatively consistent.

We've had a few good years and everyone now goes there's going to be a crash. It's all coming down and everyone's got their predictions. I think the US economy is strong. I think AI and tech will will carry us for the foreseeable future.

And if it when it it dips, everyone's going to assume it's a crash. It's going to be just a little low. I think we'll come back up pretty quickly and lower. >> So, you're not saying steady throughout the year.

You're saying it ends the year pretty much at a at a level. Yeah.

I think we're going to have a positive year. >> Wow. No camel crash.

>> No. Okay. Okay. >> Uh I think the trend of buy now pay later. So I'll hit I'll get mad at the girls who shop, okay? Cuz that's sometimes who uses this. Uh I think they're going to become worse and worse and worse for the consumer. Meaning I think there's going to be more fees. I think that you're going to be able to loan sack, you know, take multiple, keep moving. They are making so much money.

Stores are making so much money when people take the buy now pay later option. They end up spending so much more. So they're they see they see the money the the banks and the and the um

and the stores, the retailers, and they know I'm going to make so much. So they're going to continue to expand that. >> Can I affirm your prediction? Pun intended. I just saw a firm is rolling out a rent buy now pay later option. So

you can put your rent on buy now pay later. >> Well, that really frightens me. Jeez, you're happy. >> With the amount of money that you're putting on a short-term loan, that frightens me. So, I think you're right. >> Can I tell you, I want to tell the viewers and the listeners, I have never seen the lovely, sunny disposition of

Rachel Cruz so cloudy. I could see it across the desk. She's just sour.

>> And it's not because of her, it's this topic. She's got sports betting fine aling of her buttons. >> I love seeing disgusted Rachel needs more of that. Let's get Let's get you back on the horn. Let's talk about the job market. This is the big everybody's always thinking. What's going on with my job? It's not been great. We saw a slowdown in 2025. Here's my theme. You

know me, I got to go with a little phrase. >> You love a theme. >> I love a phrase. >> Is it a Is it a >> 2026 job market will be You ready? Low, higher, low, fire. In other words, you

won't see. Now she's laughing. >> Kelly says, "Oh, wow." >> You know what? Kelly doesn't appreciate that this is rooted in accuracy.

low higher means we're not going to see uh a hot job market. It's going to stay pretty stagnant. Uh I think you're going to be in the 4.5%. You may see a spike get near 5% depending on some situations.

We still don't know where all the tariff situation uh where all those tariffs how is it going to shake out?

So what I mean by low hire is I don't expect to see companies hiring a lot of people. I think it's going to be a wait and see for 2026. But here's the good news because companies are also in a wait and see. They're going to be reluctant to fire talent.

>> Okay? So, it's kind of a we're okay with who we got and we're going to stay in a holding pattern. So, that's what I mean by low hire, low fire. Now, a couple quick things. Growth sectors. I think there will be hot sectors regardless of low hire low fire and that is healthcare, skilled trades. Don't sleep on the trades. They're blowing up.

logistics and some AI adjacent roles.

>> Oh, [clears throat] >> so it's not replacing jobs, but they're connected to >> white collar jobs right now, specifically white collar tech, is getting killed because that's where we're seeing already how AI is beginning to kick people. >> How is it affect I mean, are you seeing numbers? >> Yes. You're not seeing a lot of a lot of young people that be in moving into the technology sector as what we would call white collar tech.

buy it, clean house, and go. We don't >> You know what I like to say about private equity? What's that? Private equity equals public misery.

>> This is why we bring Ken on, guys. He brings the heat. >> Ken is he he's all about the words. I appreciate it. >> I'll be here for 30 more seconds. >> Here's the truth. Nobody knows what's going to happen. So, just stay the course. >> I know I do. >> Okay. >> Take those predictions to the bank.

>> Y'all, we will come back December of I forgot how competitive you guys are.

>> I was going to put Ken on hold. That's my dream in life to have a hold button for Ken. Thank you for joining us, Ken.

We had a great time. Hope you appreciate our predictions. Control what you can control. It's all you can do. [music]

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

>> All right, guys. Listen, if you have some money goals this year, you want to get control, you're making good money, uh you got to download the Every Dollar app. It is the way people gain control with their money in a very tactical way.

And here's a a quote from someone who downloaded it. Love this app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband.

That's right. We've got a a new spouse feature there. Here's what they continued to say. We've implemented this practice since our wedding day and we've had zero money fights because there's full transparency and we're all on the same page. And you can do this, too. You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree. You can live like no one else. Go download the Every Dollar Budget app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Amanda is in

Toronto. What's going on, Amanda?

>> Hi. >> Hey. >> Um, this is my question. Um, how can my

mom and I budget our emergency fund and travel expenses given that my father's ICU expenses are climbing? I'd like to still have some left over for my dad's rehab since not everything is covered by our Canadian healthcare coverage.

>> I'm so sorry. He's still in the ICU.

Yes. Um, basically what happened was that earlier this month, my dad had a stopover flight in Soul, South Korea,

where he had a cardiac arrest and is now in the ICU.

>> My mom and I would like to fly over and bring him back to our hometown in Canada once his heart procedure is scheduled.

>> We have travel insurance, but we're not sure what would be covered since my dad's claim is still under review. M >> I've already paid $18,000 Canadian

and the translator said the total cost

of the hospital would would potentially exceed $47,000 Canadian.

>> Mhm. >> Um but of course that's just a baseline and it could go up from there. So I'm overwhelmed navigating all of this as an only child. >> Wow. >> Gosh. Amanda, how old are you?

>> I'm 25 years old.

>> Okay. Um, what is your parents financial

situation? Like where your dad and your mom, what they have built as your parents, where are they at financially?

>> Um, so my father um he um has been on a

disability for quite some time. So he's unemployed um when received disability payments from the government. My mom is the sole bread winner. I believe she earns about 65,000 Canadian per year.

>> Okay. Um, and they do have a mortgage

for the condo that we live in. Um, so

that's their um, financial situation at the moment. >> Okay. Do they have savings at all?

>> Yes. Um, I don't have access to my dad's

uh, bank account, but from what I know, my mom has um $71,000

in an emergency fund. >> Okay. >> $10,000 was borrowed from her home line of credit. >> Okay. and she borrowed um $10,000 from

her sister and 5K from my grandmother.

>> Why is she borrowing all this money when she has the money to just pay for it?

>> Um I just found out about this after the fact. Um so I wasn't looped in on it. I

think my mom is just um I think maybe panicking >> um given that the hospital keeps calling us every other day asking us to pay a

deposit. >> Yeah. how much is owed right now? What sort of gets you guys by right now? Cuz the other medical bills, you can get on a payment plan and pay that off over time, but what are they demanding right now?

>> Um, so they were demanding

um 17 million Korean one. So I believe that was um I'd say 16 to 7,000 16,000 or so

Canadian dollars. >> Okay. And is that it like um at this

point? >> Do you know how much longer he'll be over there before you guys can bring him to Canada?

>> No, we don't have that information.

>> Okay. >> The doctor said they want his inflammation to go down um before they start the procedure. So, he's just an observation at this moment.

>> Wow. Okay. >> Well, I would make sure to use your dad and mom's money before you're using your own. Is that the case? Are you expected to pay out of your own salary for this?

>> Um [snorts] what my mom and I discussed is that um

for my own travel expenses I would be paying for my own. >> Okay, that's fair.

>> Um that's what we have decided. Um >> so how much will the travel be?

>> Oh, so travel >> all in for this trip. travel, lodging, transportation, all of that.

>> About 5,000 um just for travel and lodging and >> Okay. Yeah. So, Amanda, I mean, if I were in your shoes, you know, we would never tell someone to like go into debt and all of it, but when there's a health crisis, our number one goal is for your

dad to be okay, right? And so, what do we have to do to create that? And then we can deal with the money stuff on the back end. Now, we don't want to be irresponsible or make bad decisions in the process. We want to have a clear mind about it. But um but yes, I mean I would be 100% spending five grand to go

with my mom to see my dad who's in a different country who had a horrible medical situation. Um get him as healthy as possible. Sounds like the surgery's going to be there. It's going to be there's going to be a lot. There's going to be a lot. And then getting him back to Canada. Like that those would be my my priorities. And I would ask and I

don't know how you know the communication with the hospital there.

Um, but a part of me would be hesitant to start paying something until we know and have some answers, right? Like there's some there's a part of me that I'd want to get there in person and to know how

their I don't even know how their healthcare works, right? >> Yeah. You got to figure out the insurance claim and all of that and make sure that everything's verified and you're not paying for things that didn't happen. So, there's a lot of pieces on the back end you can do.

And I would >> start writing checks, right, though? Yeah, I mean I would >> if they're needing a deposit to for whatever. That might be the one thing to cover today out of mom's savings. Leave her debt.

Don't allow her to go in any more debt, but just pause on her debt right now until all of this is squared away. We got dad home. We know next steps.

>> Do you have 5k for the trip saved up or are you going to save up quickly? Yes, I

have 5K uh for for the trip saved up.

>> Okay, good. Well, the key is that you

are not mixing finances together and

they have the money. So, you don't need to, you know, give money to your mom and

hey, this is a loan. I would just cover your trip like she said and let them handle the medical expenses out of their savings and then pay off whatever's whatever debt is left when you get back.

Do you have any debt personally?

No, I have no no debt.

>> Good. >> Okay. Yeah, Amanda, I mean, I I think George is exactly right that they're Again, a boundary sounds so harsh in a situation like this, but your parents have $71,000. You know what I mean? Like that needs to be taken. That that's the that's the pool at which you pull from.

And it sounds like your parents have had separate finances because you can't get Okay. So, so your mom I I mean is she

under the emotional awareness of that this is my husband and even though it's quote unquote the my savings that I'm going to be spending some of this on him, right? Does is will she do that?

>> She will.

Um I think she's a bit I guess panicky

about it, but she will. Um

>> Okay. Yeah. Cuz that's I mean that that's it, right? If your if your husband has a medical situation, you have $71,000. We're not going to go to my sister to ask for money at you. She has the money. And so that's I would not be spending your money right now, Amanda. Now, if all this gets drained and there's something horrible and you feel like as a daughter, you're like, I want to contribute and help. Like that is totally your prerogative. Um but I I

would not be paying money out of pocket for any of his medical expenses again right now because they have $71,000.

>> Yep. And then it's up to your mom to figure out, hey, what's going on with dad's financial situation? And we need to make sure that he's able to communicate all this. If he's incapacitated, she needs, you know, financial power of attorney.

And so to use his money >> to use his money and access it all if it is not tied to her name. And so there there's just a lot of other pieces to this. But I would just take it one day at a time. Let's get dad well.

The money pieces will solve themselves. We just don't need to go further into debt. We need to limit the damage financially and just take the trip, make sure he's good, get him back home and deal with the medical situation. But man, I'm so sorry.

>> That is so tough. And then being in a foreign country, different language, different healthare translator. I mean, that's difficult. >> That is that's a lot. That's a lot, Amanda. So, >> for a 25-year-old to be dealing with, >> I know.

>> Well, we're wishing the best for his health and [music] the financial piece we will figure out. And that's why we have an emergency fund that that turns this crisis into an inconvenience to drain it. But at least we're not in crippling debt coming out of this thing.

[music]

>> [snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz taking your calls at88255225.

Elizabeth joins us in Columbia, South Carolina. What's going on, Elizabeth?

>> Hey, how are y'all doing? We're doing great. What's going on with you today?

>> Well, my father, 87 years old, he's a

widow of seven years. He has been seeing

a um he's excuse me, he's a widowerower and he's been seeing a um widow um who's

88 years old. They live about an hour away from all of us here and he is

buying a house at 87 years old with a VA

loan and we're trying not to read into it. We want him to be happy. Um but I can this

is one of the worst financial decisions that he will be making. He's not married. He has no intention of being married. And um >> does where does he live now? What what's his home situation now?

>> Well, he doesn't live in our town. He's been living with her for um for about 6

months. >> Okay. So, he doesn't have a home.

>> He doesn't have a home. >> He does have a home. Yes, he has a home here. He has a home here, >> an hour away that he's not living in because he's living with girlfriend.

>> Okay. >> He refuses to move to his town.

>> Okay. >> Yes. Does is he going to sell his home

where you are and pay for this home?

>> Oh, I only have a few minutes for this call. I mean, we could get into I mean, >> I'm here some popcorn and listen up, Elizabeth. >> You It's you. Yeah. Very long story short, um well, my younger sister had

financial problems and she got recently foreclosed on and moved into his house and didn't tell anybody. And so the last

thing he's going to do is kick his daughter out into the street. So

>> so originally told him, "We have no

problem whatsoever if you sell your house, right? >> Use that money and buy something down there. We have no problem with that whatsoever." >> But now that's not going to be the case.

And he's still going through with it. And he didn't tell anybody [snorts] and learned about it the hard way. And he promised me face to face that he would tell me if he did anything financially like this because I'm I'm his executive.

I'm his power of attorney. I'm on his account. >> Yeah. >> And he's >> I think she's manipulating him.

>> Well, you think the girlfriend is >> I Why else would he be buying?

>> Well, [laughter] cuz he wants to be near Jar his girlfriend. Why he's Why you know what I mean? Who's manipulating is the sister living in the house that he needs to sell? Well, I >> now Now the girlfriend's not going to be on the house, right? The loan and and the >> deed. I I don't know. He won't really He

hasn't really talked about it cuz he hasn't really talked about it. I mean, I had to call him out on it when I heard about it and um he won't I don't know.

But it's hard. >> She doesn't have she doesn't have the money. She needs his money and he doesn't have >> How much money does he have? >> She's living with him. She's got a house. Well, she's renting and Yeah,

she's renting. >> Okay. So, she need She has no money.

She's broke. >> Um, yeah. >> At 88. Is she 88?

>> Yeah. Her husband, I think, financially his health wiped him out. I mean, I feel horrible for that, but >> Sure. How is she How is she health-wise at 88?

>> She's got her issues that again, my dad is now become it seems like a caretaker and >> Oh, shoot. So, you do see your dad, you're like, "Dad, you're 78. You could have another 10, 15 years." >> He's 80. You say 87. >> 87. >> Oh, he's 87. Oh, I wrote down 78. I'm sorry. >> Okay. So, they're Oh, man.

>> This is a wild one. Well, here's the deal. It sounds like you've been pretty like combative, accusatory, and he's sort of getting defensive, right?

>> Well, to a certain degree, but this isn't our relationship, and that's why it's so hard. >> Yeah. That it's it's heartbreaking that he did something that you guys promised.

you know, the integrity of the situation of, "Dad, you you're going to tell me and he didn't." That's hurtful. That's hard. >> Even though he's a grown man, obviously, >> but um have you encouraged him?

>> I'm sorry. >> Have you just encouraged him? Hey, here's here's the things that I'm personally worried about. This isn't about me. I'm just worried about you. Here's what's on my mind of, you know, keeping finances separate. What happens if the relationship goes south? you know, making sure that it's in only in his name and not her name and not, you know, co-mingled at this stage of life while they're not married.

>> Well, he hopefully he's at least doing that. I mean, that he shouldn't be doing this period. I mean, it's

okay. My concern Yes. My concern I we just want him to be happy. I mean, there's four children. He just We all just want him to be happy. But >> what what is his financial situation, Elizabeth? What's What does he have? What's his net worth? >> Okay. Well, he's got his house here and

if he had to sell it outright, I'd say he'd get 400 for it and he's got about

200 in an IRA. >> Okay. What does he owe on his current house? >> Nothing. >> Oh, he owns it outright.

>> Correct. >> Okay. And then how much do you know how much the house he's looking at when he's going to pull the VA loan?

>> 425. >> Oh gosh. >> And that's going to be nothing down.

>> Correct. Because the VA that's what he keeps saying, the VA doesn't need anything down. I'm like, "That's not the point." >> Well, how is he going to afford a $425,000 mortgage?

>> Um, I guess between, you know, sharing sharing expenses.

>> I mean, you told me she's broke and it doesn't sound like he's rolling >> apparently. Well, she's got enough apparently to live on for the next 5 years, and I haven't asked her exactly

what that means, but um so I mean, she's

got enough to be paying her rent. So, I believe that they are sharing some expenses, but my concern is what if my father passes away and she's living in

this house? >> Yeah, it's under his name.

>> I mean, you know, if she we goes back to

renting, right?

>> Well, I mean, what if what if I mean

what if let's just say a year after they move in, my father passes away. Then what? I mean, you know, I mean, I doubt we're going to be able to boot her out.

And if she fails [clears throat] to make the mortgage, then I'm sure he's putting up his current house. >> I mean, if they're not married at that point and the estate plan is clearly laid out, then you have options. And so, that's where I'm saying the best thing you can do right now is say, "Dad, I can't stop you from doing this." But I need you to slow down and think clearly and we need to put protections in place cuz I'm the executive. I'm going to have to deal with the fallout of all this.

Correct. >> And so, I just need to make sure we're updating wheels. We have the correct beneficiaries. We're looking at the whole estate plan so that we all have a clear plan of what's going to happen when inevitably one of them passes

>> cuz he's creating a nightmare for the girls that he loves. >> That and what are you going to do about the sister if he passes away in a year?

What's your sister going to do? Cuz she lives in >> Oh my jeez. >> She lives in the [clears throat] you know, now we have to evict her. >> It's the most of his whole estate is this $400,000 paidoff house. And then that's got to be split four ways. So she's not going to buy y'all out. So that's going to be that needs these are the conversations that need to happen before he passes away with the sister and him about and his girlfriend.

>> Well, >> I do feel like Yeah, I'm with you though, Elizabeth. Like, how do you kick out a you know, if this is in two years, a 90-year-old woman?

>> Yeah, exactly. I mean >> I mean you do I mean from >> I I would sit down with an estate attorney as a third party mediator because between you and dad it's going to get too contentious and just say hey dad we have an estate attorney coming by. He's going to look at all this and make sure that we've got our eyes dotted tees crossed before we make any financial decisions so that it doesn't create a nightmare for all of us down the line.

>> He's a grown man. >> Yeah. So you're going to that's >> you can't stop people from doing dumb things. But you can try to slow him down >> when an 87year-old has his mindset.

[music] I have a feeling.

>> Gosh, man. That's a wild time to fall in

love. But hey, >> you know what? >> Good for him. Again, you want him to be happy.

[music]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show, Rachel.

It's time for our question of the day, and it comes uh from Y Rei. Defaulted private student loans, they don't fix themselves, but they can be fixed. Why Refi helps you by refinancing defaulted private student loans into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget so you can clean up the mess and move forward with a plan. Visit yrefi.com/ramsey to learn more. That's yfy.com/ramsey.

May not be available in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Derek in Vermont. Excuse me. [clears throat] What's the point in marriage? Okay, here. [laughter] Here we go. >> Start strong. >> What's the point of marriage? My girlfriend and I are not religious and we think traditional marriage is an outdated religious ceremony. We don't like the idea of spending money on everything that surrounds a wedding. We thought about doing a marriage at city hall, but we already combined our finances, do our taxes together, and call each other husband and wife. So, what's the point of getting the official marriage certificate?

>> Okay. >> Well, Derek, >> a pointed question, but a fair one that, you know, a lot of there's there's a generation of people who are kind of going, what's the point in this? Like, why do we need to make it official? We're cohabitating already. We do our thing. It's been going well. Why move forward in this this outdated oldtimey thing where we have a ceremony, go to the courthouse and get a certificate?

>> What's your take, Rachel? >> Yeah. Well, I would say from like the non-emotional, non-spiritual side, there's a level of protection with getting legally married from a financial perspective, if you ever have kids in the future. I mean, there is something to be said that, you know, you have a system in place that helps protect both parties. And I do think kind of along those lines, George, again, I don't have stats on this, but I'm like, there is something to be said when you commit something, even legally,

there's a level of commitment there where Yeah. >> this that's like, okay, the wind blows a certain way, you're kind of not feeling it, and one's just out and then you're just stuck with what you got, you know?

>> [snorts] >> Um, so that's the more legal non-spiritual side. But I would say from a from a um gosh, I wish I had Deloney

on here because he's was >> he's been studying this stuff.

>> He was talking about the marriage advantage and there's something um emotional, psychological, like all of these elements. >> There's benefits in every area, >> financial, all of it. Yes. Um when you commit yourself to a partner.

So there's something about that. um >> the long-term trust and the shared sacrifice, stability for the kids, the financial benefits. >> I mean, there's a lot >> emotional safety. >> And if you're a person of faith, which you know, Rachel and I are, like marriage is a covenant, and we believe it was designed by God.

>> Totally. >> And if you don't do that, it's fine, but you're you're, you know, roommates with benefits at that point. And some people make that work. I'm not saying that you can't have a successful relationship.

I've just found at some point one of you wants to go to the next level and have that commitment and there becomes resentment and it doesn't work out.

We've seen that where we've been dating for nine years but he just doesn't see the point. I'm like yeah because you've been cohabitating for 9 years. So he's going why go further with this? I can just >> you know >> I can have all the benefits without having to have the full commitment. And so there there's a lot there but again I think the better question for you is why you scared of commitment Derek?

>> Come on Derek step it up.

>> There we go. You know, there's the re there's like there's a rebel in there that people are like, "Oh, I I'm going to do something totally different." This outdated >> Yeah. >> religious ceremony, you know.

>> So, yeah, I would go to city hall, make it official, be husband and wife, cuz you're not. >> It's not about the ceremony. No. No.

>> If you want to skip that, whatever.

Fine. >> Yeah. >> But it's about building a life together.

And I don't think you can fully do that when you're cohabitating. >> And I don't think from an emotional spirit. Yeah. I don't think that. Yeah.

All right, I agree. So, Derek, I don't know if we helped you, but >> we said what we said, Derek. >> That's how we feel. >> To each his own. All right, Dustin is in Indianapolis. Up next, Dustin, what's going on?

>> Hi, good afternoon, George and Rachel.

It's a pleasure to talk to you guys. I just started listening to you not too long ago. And, uh, long story short, I want to get much of your guys' advice as I can. Um, I'm about 40k in debt right

now. Um, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I've been listening to you guys' memos and I want to do something really different, you know, this year with my money. Um, be honest, I really I suck at budgets. Um, I just downloaded um, Every Dollar yesterday.

Just bought Total Money Makeover yesterday as well. >> Awesome. >> Good for you.

>> I've been very blessed with the opportunity job. Um, I'm expected to make about 120 to 140K a year um,

starting yeah, this month. And I just want to know how can I attack this, you know, rapidly right now. Guns, Blaz, and

Rambo. Um I found a side hustle I

started doing in dece um December. So I'm able to squeeze like an extra 2 to 3K as well a month.

>> Amazing.

>> Break down the debt.

>> Um so I have 40K. I have about 15 in the

car. I have about 25 in credit cards. Um

8,000 of it will be paid off the end of March and then the rest 17 will probably be paid off in about May, give or take.

>> Yeah, good for you.

>> I want to be able to get emergency fund as well. I hear people talk about that a lot. And I'm behind in my 401k. I only

have about 10 15k in that. And I want to know how can I max that to catch up from the years. >> How old are you? >> Behind. I'm 29 years old. turn 30 next month. >> Oh, amazing, Dustin.

>> You got you got one of the biggest blessings of all, which is time. And that's what you need to build wealth. And you will do that if you follow the principles that we teach. Cuz guess what? By the end of the year, if you follow this plan, you're out of debt with a fully funded emergency fund with your incredible income.

>> Yes, sir. I love the year. >> Can I ask Dustin, what are you doing for a living? Because I think this 120 is new, you said.

>> Yes. Um, I'm a truck driver. Um the past couple years the pay has been flunuating but um I've landed a great job luckily here. Okay. >> Um I travel for work. I'm going to be able to travel two three weeks at a time. Um >> okay. So it's pretty guaranteed the 120.

It's not like if you sell this you can you could make it. It's like it's a pretty locked in like okay I'm going to if I do the work I'm going to get it.

>> Amazing. Okay.

>> So Dustin you're incredible. Okay so George is exactly right. I think all of this can be taken care of. You want to be paying your debts off smallest to largest. So, the 17,000 that's going to be left in credit cards. Is that multiple credit cards or just one?

>> Just probably just one. >> Just one. Okay. So, what I would probably do, Dustin, is um pay minimum

payments on it and then I would actually probably pay off your car, your $15,000

car loan, and then go back to that 17. I mean, it's a $2,000 difference. It's not like the end of the world. >> Yeah. The way you're headed, it's going to be so aggressive. It really won't matter all that much. But the momentum you create by using the debt snowball to a tea and just smallest balance is next.

Smallest balances next freeing up the payment. If you do that and can you know are you bringing home like 9K a month you think with this new gig?

>> Uh give or take about gross about 10k

about 19k a month. >> So then if you think about it could you throw 5,000 at your debt every month total?

>> Yes sir. Okay possible.

>> That means you are done in like 7 months. >> Yeah. 5,500 bucks get you done in a little over seven months and it'll take you three or four months after that to get a fully funded emergency. >> Yeah. What's your expenses every month, Dustin?

>> Um, right now I'd say about 1,500. Um, I

was blessed to come to stay with some family because I'm a truck driver, so I real

um married kids anything single.

>> Single just me. >> Okay. Because a fully funded emergency fund for you could be more, we say three to six months of expenses. Yours could be on the three-month side. >> Yeah. >> Um because >> you're pretty nimble. Yeah. Not a lot of people to take care of. I mean, you can make it 10K and be done in two months.

And so, I'm telling you, man, by the end of the year, this thing's over. Just chunk as much as you can at the debt every month. Minimum payments on the rest, smallest one, attack it with a vengeance, and you'll be done in no time. >> Yep. And then once you get your emergency fund, then you can start looking at your retirement that you were asking about, and you're going to have plenty. Can you pull pull up a calculator, George, for us? >> Yeah. 15% of 140, that's 20K a year

you'd be investing. So, think about that. You're investing 1,600 bucks a month. >> And if you put that into an investment calculator, George is going to do it. [clears throat] >> 28, let's say by 29, you start investing, right? We'll give you a year.

>> And he's got 15,000 already in his 401k.

>> 15,000. We're going to contribute 1,600 bucks a month, 10% rate of return.

>> You're ready. Okay, Dustin, are you ready for this? >> Big reveal. If you do this, guess how much money? What What's the age? 20 29 to age 60. So you can retire at 60 if you want to. >> Okay. What how much do you think would be in your account, Dustin, at 60 if you did this. Just take a guess.

>> I say about 1.5.

>> You ready for this? >> For 4.3 million.

>> Triple it.

>> Okay. >> That's not like us making up numbers.

That's just if you follow what the stock market has done and you do this for 30 years, you never get a raise. This is the amount you make and you consistently invest. You will have multiple millions.

Well done, Dustin. Congratulations. Stay the track. Read Total Money Makeover. Do Every Dollar Budget. You're going to freaking kill it. We are cheering you on. [music]

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsay trusted agents

aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's rammissysolutions.com/

[music]

[music] Well, tax season is upon us, Rachel.

I've got my appointment scheduled. I'm very excited. We're making it a date.

[music] My wife and I are going to go get a nice lunch afterwards to celebrate >> and do your taxes. >> Yeah. So, if you need help with this, we've got tons of resources, free checklists and guides that will help you file. Just go to ramseolutions.com/taxes

and you'll feel a whole lot better about tax season. Maybe you'll even get excited about it like I do.

>> You're so excited. >> I can't I can't wait to see what I owe.

Will I get a refund? >> Oh my gosh. I know. Do you usually will I get close to zero? >> I'd say we usually owe >> Yeah, I have owed the past couple years.

>> I go on the other end of the spectrum versus like wanting a refund. You want to hang on to your money versus the government hanging on to it for you. >> Put it in that fair winds, you know, high yield checking account, high yield savings account. I mean, and >> I like to write >> because here's the thing, the money doesn't come out of your account until April 15th.

>> That's right.

So, don't wait till the last minute. Go ahead and at least get your ducks in the in a row here. >> Ramseyolutions.comtaxes.

All right. Ashley is in Atlanta up next.

What's going on, Ashley? Hey, how are you guys? >> Great. What's going on with you?

>> Good. >> So, I bought a car and I don't struggle

paying the payment, but I mentally struggle with the payments.

>> Like, are you mad at yourself? Do you feel like it was a mistake?

>> Yes. Because I drove a paid off car. I I

was doing the total money makeover.

>> Um, you went back to the dark side after

Yes. So, >> what caused that, do you think? I'm curious.

Well, I I needed a new car or not a new one. I needed a car and I made the mistake of buying a new one that instead of just getting something >> um that I could pay cash for or even less expensive than what I went with.

>> So, the our car >> your heart went ahead of your bank account and went me wants it now.

[laughter] >> I'm like, "Oh, this is awesome. It's so nice and it's comfortable and it has so many options and >> Yeah. So beautiful. It's a brand new car, you know, >> right? >> You sit in it, smell it, see it, and you're like, "Wow, [laughter] >> it's enticing." >> And then now I get in it and smell it and won't it because my kids have already destroyed it. >> Yep. >> That's the problem with cars. >> What did you get? >> I got a um 23 Palestine Limited.

>> Okay. >> Nice. All right. So, what do you owe on it and what's the payment? Um, so

I owe 37,000

payments >> 805 a month.

>> Is that how much a palisade costs?

>> Yes. So, >> goodness gracious. It thinks very highly of itself. [laughter] >> It does. It really does. Um, so if I

keep going with the payment, it's actually going to be $41,000 after interest. >> Y >> Yes. So, I got on Carvana, put in the

information, and they offered me

um whatever it was like a $3,100 difference

that I would have to pay them.

>> Got it. So, they were offering like 34.

>> Yeah. So, my question is, do I take the $3,100 loss >> and just know I made a mistake three years ago or do I >> That's like basically four four months of car payments, >> you know? >> Right. >> The other option if you if it feels like too much to take the hit, you could always go private party. It's going to be a little more work because you have to deal with it and list it and all of that, but you'll probably get 37 or more for it.

>> Yes. >> Carvana needs to make money. So, they're going to give you less so that they can then jack it up to 38 and sell it to someone else. >> Do you have any money saved, Ashley?

>> I do. We have three months uh emergency

fund. >> How much is that for you guys?

>> Uh $20,000.

>> Okay, good. >> Yes. Get rid of this car.

>> If you want to do the work, do a private sale. Yeah, private. Yeah, do it private sale if you can. If you don't want to do the work, you want to take the hit, you can. And then take get girl $6,000 out

of your emergency fund and go buy a car.

>> Well, so we already have two other paid off cars like that now. So when I got

the car, we needed a seven passenger vehicle, but like our kids have grown up. Some of them have grown up and moved on. >> How many kids you have? Oh, okay.

>> Yeah. So we have five total.

>> Oh my gosh. So you can So you have a car you have a car sitting there

>> that you could drive. >> Great. Ashley, sell this car.

>> Your problems have been solved for you.

>> You've done it. You didn't even need to call us. You have Yeah, you don't have to work. >> It's all right there. >> Now, how much do you guys make as a household? >> Um >> Oh, you broke up on us. >> Oh, wait. Yeah. How much? >> Sorry. Around 140 a year.

>> Amazing. >> Oh, >> okay. And what's the total value of all the cars in your life right now? Everything with wheels and motors. >> Oh, they're I mean they're older. the value.

Um, I don't know, probably

$20,000 if we sold the other cars. Maybe

>> I was going to say if you love the car and just hate the payment, you could always aggressively pay off the car.

>> Yeah, you could. Yes, >> but that's that's another version of sacrifice. >> Yeah. Do you want to sacrifice lifestyle for a few months and throw money at this? >> Live like you're broke and pay it off in four months, five months.

Yeah, I've considered that too because we do I put I do this the 10% into our

401k and then I do $2,100 into our high

yield savings account. So like it's not

that we struggle to pay it. It's just like I don't know if I want to pay it anymore and and I didn't know if it was better to just get >> It's okay to not struggle to pay it and want to get rid of it. You there's a lot of people who take on the payment going, "Well, I can afford it. It's fine." and and then life happens and so you're kind of getting ahead of this >> going, "Hey, let's let's nip this in the bud while it's still fresh, >> right?" >> And eventually you can get your dream car, just save up and pay cash.

You got the savings muscle down >> that too.

>> you could drain the emergency fund and

sacrifice lifestyle for a few months, pay this off, build your emergency fund back up, and keep the car if you want. But if every time you get in that car, you're like, "Oh, I don't regret sitt If the regret, it's not worth that. But financially, you guys are in a place, you're not over. Yeah. You're in a place that you would be able to to keep it if you wanted it. You just got to pay it off, >> right? Okay. Just the draining the emergency fund. It kind of makes me panic.

>> Like it's like I need that just in case, you know, like Dave says, it's not if something happens, it's when something happens. So, I need that there when something happens to be able to like care for my family. >> Sure. There's just a false sense of security when you owe this lender 40 grand and you have 20 grand sitting on the other side.

>> Yeah. You're still a negative negative net worth in that sense. You know what I mean? If you're just looking at those two numbers.

So >> it's it's not really real cuz it's not really there. It's >> because you have debt. So >> on paper it's a net negative here. And so you know what to do.

Ashley, you got two options. You guys make enough that this car is not a huge part of your world and income, but there's sacrifice on either side. I got to get rid of this thing.

>> And when the kids trash it and you're paying $800 a month towards it, you're just like, >> I realize that as an adult now cuz I got little ones and dogs and they've just destroyed all of this beautiful furniture and the vehicles and you're just like stuff is going to get deteriorated. >> I know. I know. when we bought our minivan in 2020. Uh it was when right

when right after Charles Charles was born October of 19 we got the minivan and I said this is my 5-year car cuz I didn't really want it but I was like >> in your head you could justify it if it was temporary. >> Yes. Yes. Where I'm like I just you know I want the cool mom car later but like for now with littles we'll do the minivan. And George can I tell you I we are five we are six years into this minivan and I can't budge. I could not

imagine buying a new SUV right now or you know a nicer car. >> Yep. >> And with it with my kids. >> You've told me the stories. I mean Sharpie on the white seats. I'm like oh my goodness. The OCD kids. But

>> I mean and I'm definitely not the mom that's like no snacks. You know some moms do that. I'm like no eat your goldfish. Like we are going to you need to be happy back there until you get do whatever you need to do back there you know to be happy. >> But then that just creates I mean just nasty nasty nasty. So, I don't know if

that's a good reminder that minivan, that odyssey will be in our lives.

>> I also feel like the danger of buying a new car is that becomes your new baseline mentally of what you're willing to drive cuz going from a new car, that's a good point. >> So, I always here's what I've done. I drove like an ' 09 then to a 13 cuz I was like, if you jump too far, you're done. You're not going back to 2016.

>> That's a great point, George. >> You just feel like you're going back in time. You're like, I'm a pioneer woman here with my I don't even have CarPlay.

What world is this? And so there's a real danger to the lifestyle creation.

She sat in the new car and she's like, "Look at all this amazing stuff." Right?

Her baseline's high. >> I've got a heated steering wheel. How did our parents survive without the heated steering wheel? Got to put gloves on. Gh. >> What is this place? [music]

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New year, new goals. We love it.

But let's be honest, old you said the exact same thing last January and the January before that. And before you know it, those money goals fizzle out faster than the fleeting flavor of Lacroy. So here's the truth. New year motivation only gets you so far. You need an actual plan. And the good news is you don't have to figure it out on your own. Every Dollar builds a personalized plan based on your goals and your real life. And it actually coaches you to stick with it.

Plus, the Every Dollar app will help you find extra money hiding in your budget.

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in the first 15 minutes. That's basically like giving yourself a raise and a much happier new year. So don't let future you down. Make them proud. Go download the Every Dollar Budget app and start for free right now.

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Our scripture of the day, Romans 12:9.

Don't just pretend to love others.

Really love them. Hate what is wrong.

Hold tightly to what is good. [music] Elon Musk said, "For quality of life, it is better to heir on the side of being an optimist and wrong rather than a pessimist and right." Did he say that? I

don't know. They just give us these quotes, guys. Who knows what's real anymore. >> And not and not on timing either in life. Let me just say that out loud.

>> Good. Good call, Rachel. All right. Mary is in Grand Rapids up next. What's going on, Mary?

>> Hello. How are you? >> Good. What's going on? Um, my question

is I know that um Dave is a long is a

proponent of long-term care insurance, >> but I wondered if you ever can get to the point where you're self-insured and you don't need it. >> Absolutely. >> Um, I'm I'm 63. I'm still working part-time. Um, my husband retired um

last June. He's 62. He doesn't want to take Social Security yet until he can max it out. >> Okay. >> And we have about 2.3 in our retirement.

Awesome. >> Um, so we called Xander, as Dave always

recommends, and we talked to a um, a

wonderful lady that spent a lot of time with us, and she gave us a quote for like a standard policy from one of the better companies that they work with, and it would cost us about 6,800 a year

for long-term care insurance. And that would be going up by about 15% every

seven years, um, the premiums. and it

would cover about 500,000 for both my husband and myself to dip into when um

when and if we need it. But the first three months would come out of our if we did go into like an assisted living or needed long-term care help, the first three months are out of pocket. So, I'm

thinking um by that time if we needed it probably the cost would be like 12 to 15,000 a month and the first 3 months are not paid for by the um insurance

plan. So, I was kind of shocked at that.

>> It's still going to cost you that's kind of it's like a co-ay there.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, you got 2.3 million and so the question is would you guys be okay if you need to dip in and pay $500,000?

>> Yeah. I mean, I I don't know. I just think that 6 $6,800 a year seems steep

to me and then it's going to increase and I don't know. I just don't know if I feel comfortable paying that much.

>> But then again, the rates you will see anywhere for that and at your age. And so, it is expensive. There's no we don't hide there's no hiding that fact. But the truth is 70% of people turning 65 will need some from it. And you know the multi-year cost can reach six figures.

So that's the fear is that >> but also remember every seven years Mary your um your money doubles. So you guys

will have 5 million right in seven years in your investments. >> So you won't need it anymore. So it's not you're not going to pay this the rest of your life. Or maybe you you pay for it for a few years and then decide you know what >> that's what I'm thinking. >> We're at the point we don't need it but right now we're still on the fence >> cuz it really depends on your expenses in retirement. If you guys are living pretty frugally, 2.3 million will get you very far.

>> And so that's the question mark. How much do you guys plan to spend in retirement? And how long do you plan to work?

>> Well, I'm working part-time. I figure I'll work 65 so that um we can go on the

Medicare or whatever and not have to pay uh health insurance out of pocket.

>> Yep. >> Um because Cobra's pretty expensive as well. >> Oh yeah. >> Um >> and what about your husband?

He doesn't want he's he retired in June.

He's 62. Okay. He doesn't want to take social security until he can max out on it. So I think that >> Yeah. And you guys don't need it. You're not desperate for the cash right now either. Are you guys debtree?

>> Yes. >> And what's your household income?

>> Um so right now I'm just bringing in about 4,000 a month working part-time.

>> And that's plenty for you guys.

>> You're bringing 4,000 a month part-time. [clears throat] That's great. >> 4,000 a month. Um, I've been having to dip into the um, investments a little bit because we've had some kind of big chunks of money that we've had to pay out lately. Um, we took two trips and my daughter's gotten married in the summer, so we're giving her some money.

>> Yeah. I mean, you've been investing for a long time. It's okay to dip in now that you're in, you know, you're past 60, so there's no penalties or anything like that. So, have at it.

I would, you know, if you want to sit down with a a Smart Vster Pro to crunch the numbers and projections of where you'll be at and when Social Security will hit and how much your expenses will be, that might give you some confidence on not needing long-term care insurance. And I think based on what you've told me, I think you guys would be okay without covering it. But the truth is, 6,800 bucks a year uh out of your income is a lot considering you're only making, you know, four grand a month part-time. So, I understand your concern.

>> I think so, too. Yeah. And so it's okay to say we're going to just have to cover that and you just need to be make peace with that too.

>> Yeah. >> But you guys are not >> our financial people are just pushing us to um to get it. They just think that it's a real good idea.

Well, the risk transfer, you know, when you look at it, I'm going to pay six grand a year for the risk transfer of $500,000 that I don't have to pay out myself. >> Mhm. >> So, when you look at it that way, it's not a bad buy considering, you know, age, it gets more expensive as you go.

>> I mean, even if you did it for 10 years, that's 60 grand, right?

>> 70 grand for 500,000. So, in the long run, >> and you could dip into your retirement to pay it if you don't feel good paying it out of your income and you'll still be okay. You're not going to deplete the nest egg. And so I think you guys have have created a a healthy financial picture where you may not need it.

And if it makes you feel better to have it for a few years, get it. And if not, again, just make peace with the fact that this will be on you. Thanks for the call.

What's going on, Jared?

>> Hey, appreciate you taking the call.

>> Yeah, what's your question? So, I found myself in a um kind of a tug-of-war situation being offered a very generous

gift with stipulations from my mother

and my uh my wife doesn't want to take it. >> Nothing Nothing like a gift with stipulations >> and nothing like a mom and wife situation. What's What's going on?

>> Yeah. Uh so so my mom has offered um

later in the year to purchase me my dream vehicle. Um, and we are currently

new in baby step 2. We have our own debt that uh that money could be used to pay off. So, my wife is uh unhappy with the decision, but the gift can only come in the form of this one particular vehicle.

>> Why? I'm just curious what's is it like a family car or something or what?

>> No. No. So the the brief backstory, my

grandpa was um you know very good

wealthy businessman and and he offered this deal to my mom and uncle uh about a year before he passed away and he kept telling her I wish you I wish id done this sooner so I could watch you all enjoy you know having your dream call.

>> Oh yeah. >> So now she's retired and she has the funds to do it. Um so she started with me and my brothers. My brother was first and now it's my turn. >> Okay. Um, but that's what's >> Yeah, I don't understand why why why is your mom mad just cuz she'd rather have just the I mean your wife cuz she'd rather have the cash to pay off the debt.

>> Yeah, it's kind of a history of these kind of gifts. Um, so the the car would be a a brand new Ford Raptor. Um,

>> Wow. >> Are we talking like a hundred grand? What's she going to drop? >> 100%. A lot

>> in the area. Yeah. >> How much debt do you guys have, Jared?

How much debt do you'all have?

We have uh 86,000 in personal debt. We

just started um knocking this out this

year, beginning of January. And um I I

have a plan. I mean, our our plan is to have it done in 16 to 18 months.

>> Yeah. How much y'all make a year?

>> So, last year was my wife's first year back working after uh being a stay-at-home mom. >> Okay. >> And we grossed 220,000.

>> Amazing. Good for you. Incredible.

>> Okay, Jared, I'm going to be honest. I don't know. I'm I'm trying to really Now, if there's weirdness between your wife and your mom in general, and then this is just another annoying thing that your mom's doing in your wife's opinion.

I get that. Okay. So, that's one thing.

>> But if someone offered me a new car,

>> I mean, I think I'd take it.

>> Yeah. The the one thing I'm thinking, I think there needs to be a compromise here. >> No, I think there's more issue. I think it's more the issue of your mom of your mom and your wife's relationship. It's not the it's not the truth. >> There's a pattern of her stepping in and maybe crossing a boundary line into your marriage and finances that I think your wife is uncomfortable with.

>> Just just Yeah, in a way. Um my wife

did, you know, she this is our first time having money. Her first time having money. I grew up with my mom doing stuff like this. So, okay.

>> Uh this is her first time having money and her first time earning her own money. We've got our plans and goals and she's thinking, you know, mom could snap her fingers and pay our debt off, but that's not really >> Yeah. No, I that's Yeah, I'm not I'm kind of I'm kind of almost worried that we're going to [snorts] >> look in the mom and she doesn't get to control what the gift is. >> The thing to think about is can you afford the higher insurance, the maintenance while you guys are in this debt?

And so if you can go, hey mom, wait until we're debtree and then give us the car. I think that's a great compromise that puts this hour in the books.

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## 117. No Amount Of Debt Is Too Big For A Comeback | July 3, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En4FFhHU-Dk) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:14:17 |

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[Music] [Applause] This is the Ramsay Show. America, thrilled to have you with us. This is where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. The phone number to jump in isle8255225.8825 [Music] 88255225 is the phone number alongside the incomparable, the fabulous Jade Warshaw.

I am Ken Coleman and we're here to coach you up today. So, we got those money questions. We got some work related questions. Hey, I need some more income.

I like helping people make mo money. Mo

money. Mo money. And by the way, if you're at the Ramsay show and we help you make mo money, it doesn't come with mo problems. It better not. Not here.

Yeah, we have the good kind of mo money.

That's right. So, let's get right to it.

Josh is going to start us off in Augusta, Maine. Josh, how can we help

today?

Um, so I've got a a bit of a strange

problem here. Perfect. Jade loves strange problems. Weird problems.

Perfect. It might not sound so strange once I explain it. Um, I'm uh I'm 25

years old. I uh I own my own home. I

built a construction company. I make uh

about 130,000 a year. Um

and I've got a real proclivity for

building my income, building my business, building my personal wealth over time. Great. And one of the things

I'm really struggling with and I'm looking for a non-biased opinion because you know how friends are.

They're great, but you know, you can only get so much. Um, I'm looking for

any sort of advice on how to select a a

partner who's not remotely interested in

my position in life. When you say because we have a lot of Are you talking about business partner or romantic partner? Romantic partner. Got you. Your position in life? I mean, just at at at

25, I'm doing fairly well. Tell us what that means. What's your net worth?

Net worth like are you saying if I my business net worth or if I were to liquidate all you don't have that much my friend but you can't answer that question. I listen I appreciate where you're at young man.

You said you said you're 25 and you have a proclivity. Great word by the way.

Yeah. Wonderful vocabulary. I'm I'm a big fan of proclivity. Uh just used it twice there because I like the way it sounds.

uh to make a lot of money and all this kind of stuff. No, we don't know that. You're 25. Um I appreciate your confidence, but if the question is, how do I make sure I find a girlfriend who's not into me for my position in life?

I go, I don't know that I want to find a woman who's not interested in my position because that position in life, the way I'm hearing that is um you got to provide.

Jay, come on. Okay, Ken, you're right.

And so, I mean, yeah, you're right.

You're not in a place, my friend, where you're worried about gold diggers. Unless you're hanging out in the trailer park. Are you dating women that are in poverty situations?

I try not to, but they uh they pop up.

Well, okay. So, listen. This is Listen, don't listen. If a if you are dating I got to be very careful how I say this, but I'm going to answer the question. I got you here to correct me, but

maybe I know how to say it. No, let me say it. If I'm trying to I got to I'm I'm I'm channeling Stacy right now. Make sure my wife is right beside me and I'm thinking what would Stacy want me to say? Okay, cuz she's a good woman. If a

woman who is in poverty pops up into your dating life, I don't have a problem

with that. People deserve dignity and

there's lots of great women and and lovely women and lovely men who come from poverty. So, I'm not saying cancel it out. However, if a person from poverty pops up in your dating life as you begin to date them, you should have some discernment there to go, am I a

ticket out? Yeah. Or and so you just

have to have some extra judgment and discernment there. I wouldn't cancel them out, but at the same time, um I I I

wouldn't necessarily be, you know, hanging out in those areas either. So, I'm I'm trying to walk the fence there.

I just think this is a problem he doesn't need to be worried about. I don't think it is a problem. I think it goes both ways. The same way you are, all that stuff matters.

To your point, your station in life, your work ethic, what you're accomplishing, that's part of the resume. Yeah. You know, the the the personal resume. And so, the same way that you have built a personal resume that people will learn about as they get to meet you, you will learn about their personal resume as you meet them and learn about them.

and you get to decide who gets the position based off of their personal resume. And so there's nothing wrong with that. You opened up the call talking about um this was a strange or weird problem. And I don't think it's strange at all.

I think it's just part of everyday life when you meet somebody and you get to decide, okay, is this person going to be somebody that I'm going to be friends with or is this person going to be somebody that I date long term? Um have you had a lady, you said that this has popped up a few times.

Yes, it's happened to me more than once.

How do you How'd you know? Tell us. Be very specific. How'd you know? When did you know that she was only after you for your money?

Um, it happened a couple of months in

about three months in. Um, I noticed at

first she was very big on balance.

Um, as far as our personal time and psychological investments, you know, we're able to talk and work things and figure stuff out between us as people.

Okay. But as time goes on, it turns more

into what kind of life you can provide

for me and my future children. and and

there's no reciprocation

besides physical which is to me is you know it's it's got a value but I'm not sure the greatest value in the world I'm not going to lie I'm not sure I understand and I and I want to understand cuz I agree you're not being specific enough there's part of it that I think it is part of the conversation maybe maybe and I don't know you were there I was not there maybe she's saying hey here's what I'm looking for in life um I these These are what I consider

consider gender roles. I would love to be in a relationship where maybe the guy works, maybe I stay at home with the kids. She could just be sharing that that's something that she's looking for.

Am I Did I miss it or I think she's right. Josh, did she say I want you to buy me this and buy me that? And I mean, was it very obvious or was this just a a young lady talking about what life might look like?

In separate instances, it's been both.

Um, well, you're worried about stuff you shouldn't be worried about on the Let me Let me put this way, Jade, when you and Sam got serious. You don't want to ask

me this question? Yes, I do. What were you thinking? Like, what were you what were you wondering about Sam? My exact words were, "You got to come correct." Those were my exact words. Meaning, I I have a high standard of work ethic and what we both do. Did you ask him about his professional future and what he thought he was going to do with his life? I think I could see it. Okay. But but my point is you were interested in it. I was interested. I'm like listen I'm a go-getter. You're a go-getter.

Like we everything we do we do 100%.

Like that was the standard. It's like if you if you're going to be around me, you got to come correct because I'm an intense person. And so that was that on that. All right. So So all right. I'm putting Josh on hold here. I I said what

I said. What are you What's your dating?

I think he needs to be in better pools.

He probably needs to be in better pools.

I also think that I and I don't say this

to be there's no salt or shade on this.

I do think that he's viewing himself in a light that's a little bit puffy. Oh,

100%. And so I think that if he just kind of chills a little bit everybody's not after him. You're doing well, but you've not like you don't have a proclivity to build wealth yet. You're 25. Yeah.

Can I just say that? Yes. I mean, come on, man. So, you're doing well, but relax. Yeah. Relax. Use your discernment and get a good group of friends who can discern on the ladies for you. That always helps. This is the Ramsay Show. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw helping you through this hour. 888255225LE88255225.

Michelle is joining us now in Jacksonville, Florida. Michelle, how can we help? Um, well, I have an adult son who's in a situation where he has a house with his girlfriend and they have a good interest rate and a really good payment and they broke up and so she wants him to refinance the house in his name and he has bad credit. I put 40,000 down on the house for them and he wants me to either help him to get the house by co-signing for it or for me just to buy it outright and then he rents from me.

But I've been helping him his whole life and he's like 35 and I just don't know.

and I don't know when to say I'm I guess

he has a history of mental illness and of substance abuse. So I'm kind of you're scared. He feeling like I should Yes. I'm scared.

He finally got a good job. Really good job. And he but he can't manage his money. Yeah.

Well, don't buy this house for him. Do not do not put yourself in this situation. But I also I understand you're scared. But I think this is the moment where he's looking to you for direction anyway.

you're not doing it and what his real options are. And the two of these uh the these two young people are on the well, they're not even that young for heaven's sakes. Uh they're on the uh the uh the

home. Both of their names are on the home. Both of their names are on the deed, but only his girlfriend's name is on the loan. So, she's suing him to make force him to refinance the house or move out and he can't he doesn't have the credit to refinance it. Well, then it's a really clear decision. He moves out.

Yeah. He moves out. He said, "Yeah, I'm just so scared this is his only chance in life to own a house. It might be chance." No, no, no, no, no. Of course, it's not. What What is the evidence that that that this is the only time he could ever own a home?

Well, he he he makes about 60,000 a year

and they each pay half of the mortgage payment. So, they each pay 750. And he says he can't afford child support. They have a child together. He can't afford a mortgage payment. He can't afford a new car. His car is about to die on the side of the road. He wants me to cosign for a car, too. Credit card is max. No money in savings. But I don't want him to be homeless and on the side of the road with no car. And like I just have fears

and my husband dies and he's not here to like delay my fears. Well, there's so many other options though. You're choosing options that put burden on you

and you called because quite frankly you're exhausted at the idea of doing this. The very idea of doing this is exhausting and it's probably equal parts scary. And the only reason you're even considering this and not saying hard pass immediately is because you're worried about your boy. He's had a lot of struggles and you feel like But I got to tell you, I think this is a blessing in disguise. He's got a new job, a good

paying job. Sounds like there might be some growth opportunity. They break up.

Yeah. He needs to get out of this house because it's the only shot he's got to be able to afford the child support because he doesn't have any shot on that. The judge is going to decide that.

But he says that rent is higher than his mortgage payment. And not if he's not if he's sharing No, not if he's renting with one or two other guys that are single. And believe me, there's plenty of those in Jacksonville, Florida. This is where you can mama him in the sense of showing him adult options and saying,

"One of the options that you don't have is me." So, here are the other options.

Yeah. He's even down to saying he can't afford to move the stuff out of this house or or a rental like a storage unit. No, I wish he was on the phone cuz this this guy needs a he needs a good sip of grown-up juice. Did you say that you put the 40,000 down for this house that the girlfriend basically has the right of ownership to? Well, they each

have a 50/50 ownership share. And he was living at my house in the basement, paying no rent, and he had trashed my basement because he was on substances at that time. So, I honestly just wanted him out. And for my peace of mind, I put down I put down 40,000. Yeah. And it was

in 2022.

Then you're not getting that money back. affordable payment. No. And that's what he held that over my head and said, "I hate to see you lose your 40,000. Let's refinance this together." Now he's pissing me off. I felt a little bad for him, but but now this is a kid who's manipulating you. And you know why he's doing it? No. Cuz it works. Yeah, it

always has worked. I operate on guilt a lot. Today's the day. Yeah.

35year-old boy needs to understand it's time to be a 35-year-old man. And the best way he's going to do that is you have to look at him and go, "And by the way, I'd be okay being really raw and sharing your emotion." Share with him why you've done this in the past because of guilt. And now you've got to own this and go, "I can't do it anymore. I can't.

It's not good for me and it's not good for you. And I know deep down you don't want me to hurt me. Uh I don't know, Jade.

don't have anything but tough love here.

What do you I have nothing but tough love. I'm holding my tongue. My son is young. Um and and you're further along in life than I am. And so there's part of me that just wants to wall up this dude, but I also understand that there's, you know, like there's motherly love here. And so I I get that. I can

understand that there's this pull that you probably have to want to get involved, but I also feel like you can't like you got to just let this guy do what he's going to do and all you can do is pray and and you know, you know what

he needs. Michelle, I'm I'm going to tell you the one thing I think you can and should do in this situation. We've already told you what not to do. Mhm.

Uhhuh. I think he needs belief from mama, not help.

That is probably something I've never really offered that's true because I'm always operating on fear and guilt. And by the way, and by the way, you have and listen to me, Michelle. I say this I say this with a father's heart.

And I say this from my own experience.

He needs belief. M no more help. Yeah.

You need to sit down with him and tell him what he should do and show him that he can do it and then you need to walk away. Okay. And you need to be Thanks for taking my call. You bet. I think you need to be his number one cheerleader. I love that, Ken. Oh, that's so good. It's so good. It's tough. I You know, it's so

hard because we want to help our kids. My goodness. I mean, I It's just so hard. I get it. I truly get it. Yeah.

But at this point, I mean, and that's the rub, right? He's 35. He's not a boy.

I honestly think when it comes to this house, I think they just need to sell it. I was gonna get whatever the profit is, give it back to Mama. She's the one that put the money down to begin with. I was going to ask you, but see, you got the girlfriend involved and her name's on it, so she gets all the dough. She's on it. Yeah. I They need to get a lawyer

involved. That This is what happened.

She's broke. This is what Yeah, but mama does. mom is already, if she wants her money back, if she cares anything, she might not care. She might be like, "I wash my hands of this situation. I'm out." Um, but if she's like, "Man, I'd love to get my 40,000 back. I'd love to, you know, talk to talk to somebody to see how how this happens." Um,

I just don't want her racking up 10 grand in legal fees. And that's that doesn't take long. But I I like what you're saying, but I I think this is the get out of jail free card for this guy.

I wish we had him on the phone and say, "You got I know you guys broke up and that sucks. I know you got a kid, but the girlfriend's going to want his name off the deed. I'm not right. I'm not exactly sure what the process for that.

The best process for a chance for him to start over. Yeah. Meaning he's already got the breakup. He's got a good job.

Yeah. But I don't buy this rent is so expensive. He's manipulating there. He's manipulate. He's got child support coming staring him in the face. Jay, he's got a lot. He needs to make more than 60,000 and he's just got to get his

life together. Yeah. He's going to grow. My guy's got he's got he's got a lot.

Jade, I'm going to give it to you. We got about a minute and a half. I think this is a great time for new listeners and viewers that come in all the time. I want you to tell them why this call is exhibit A on why we shouldn't buy a house with somebody we're not married to.

Go ahead. Because there's no clear rights. Like like I said with this, it's like, okay, both their names on the deed, one name's on the title. Mom put the money down.

Like there's such a tangled web here and it's going to take a lot to untangle.

There's no clear uh division of of

assets. And so that this is just what is

known as a hot steaming pile, Ken.

That's what this is. And so it's it's not Don't play house. Don't play I haven't heard that in a long time. That's what this is.

I know. But that's how I know your dad's a preacher. Oh, 100%. That's true.

It's true. I can't get it. You can take the uh preachers's kid out of the church, but you can take the church out of the preachers's kid, right? But you know, that's what happened here.

We love each other. Let's go in and do this house. And now look at it. You know what?

They would benefit from some counseling, too. They really would. The two of them, mom and son together, mom on his own on her own. I just saw flashes of a reality show where you're coming in and telling these two, "Get your all stuff fixed and just love each other and get married and not get this nonsense over with." I'm not a counselor, but I can send them to to Better Help and they can they can help him out.

I think you could be a matchmaker. You think I could sit down and be quiet? Let Jake fix this. Act like you got some home training.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is with me. 888255225

is the phone number to jump in. Let's get back to the phones. Chris is there in Columbus, Ohio. Chris, how can we help today? Hi there. How you guys doing today? We're doing great. What's What's going on?

Um well, straight to the point, I got into some credit card debt. Um how much

I'm about 50,000 50,000.

What happened? Yeah, that's a lot. Um what took place? It is. Well, so all

right, about 2021, I bought a house. Um

went into it having a little bit of credit card debt. Um, when what I didn't

realize is when buying a house, there's stuff that need help. You know, I had

it's, you know, I went in like, you know, maybe $8,000 in credit card debt.

Mhm. Um, and had it sitting on a 0%

balance transfer. You know, I wasn't that worried and it was a great I I still think the house was a good investment. We got in sub 3% on the interest rate and values gone up by like 25%.

But but the the cost of ownership, the

cost of owning the house, uh a lot of times that just fell to the credit cards. Yeah. Was that because So the

question I have is that because you didn't have any margin in your paycheck when it came to everything else and so uh any kind of house repairs or all that was just a squeeze on you or was it because you had a new house and you're all excited and you guys wanted to start doing some projects and you didn't have the cash for it, so you thought, well, we'll just put it on the card. Was it that? Some of both? What What are we talking about?

Little little bit of both. I mean, so you know, they I got I got young boys. They are When we moved in here, they were eight and six.

man, that's really the perfect time to build a treehouse in the backyard. So, you know, guess where that went? That went to the credit card. Okay. Um, you know, we got we got a half bath downstairs. And I'm pretty handy. I can do a lot of stuff myself.

So, well, what percentage of your real easy to what do you take home every month? What's your take-home pay between you and your wife?

So, I'm making about 100 a year. And

that's just because of a new position that I've taken this year. Last year, and when I bought the house, I was making about 85. And what's your take-home pay? What do you see on your check every month?

Uh, let's see. I make 13 and change

every week.

every week? 1300? Yes. Okay. And then

what percent how much is your mortgage?

2400 with taxes. Okay. So 5200 net,

right? Yeah. Wow. So that that's that's

a little bit. Tell me again. I'm sorry.

Ken said something. Tell me again the what your mortgage is every month.

2400. 2400. Okay. I think that's where

some of the problem is because you're getting really close to that being half of your take-home pay.

Yeah, it very much is. And so I that's

that's where we get into this cuz I mean think about it like this and I don't think people take enough time to think about these ratios. We say all right your your mortgage should be no more than 25% of your take-home. So there's 25 there. If you're a giving person, you're probably doing around 10% there.

And then when it comes time to do your investing, you're doing 15% there.

That's 50% right there. So if you mess

around and your mortgage creeps up 25

more points, you're at 75% of your income and you haven't even done anything yet.

So yeah, no wonder you would be going to credit cards, right? Cuz you haven't even bought groceries. You hadn't, you know, taken a vacation. You've done nothing. So I think that what's really

really squeezing you is the mortgage.

That's probably thing one. And then if you're not on a really tight budget, then this money just disappears. Are you guys doing an every dollar budget?

We're very good about budget. Um, you know, did we're both emotional people and so occasionally do have some impulse purchases that take us outside of that budget. Um, you start creeping up or

getting a lot. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, what it might be for you guys, the no spend months. Okay. So, but that's not sustainable. So, what it might be for you guys, it's it's one of two things.

The first thing is if we know that we're on a tight budget and we knowingly say

we can't afford this, but we're going to put on the credit card. We're going to put on the credit card. You know, we're going to do that. So, you've decided that. And so, for that reason, then you need to say, "Okay, this is a habit we have and it's not working for us. Let's cut up the credit card." That way when

that sneaky feeling of let's build a treehouse sneaks up, you can't put it on a credit card because you ain't got a credit card, right? So, let's take the cookies off the shelf so you're not tempted by them. And then you're forced to stick to your budget. And then what will happen is you'll go, "Man, I'm just

I don't I'm not happy with something with our lifestyle. We want more money." And then your creative brain will kick in. You'll go, "Okay, what can we do to bring up our income?" And you won't be dependent on these credit cards anymore.

I think you should cut your card up right now on the air. Heyo.

Uh oh. Oh, we got I double dog dare you.

Did you hear the chuckle? That was the respectful chuckle. It's an uncomfortable laugh. Which credit card?

I'll tell you. Do all of them. Cut them right now. Yeah, I know.

Yeah, I you know what? I would um honestly we stopped using them. I used to be in the habit of you know we put everything on the credit card and we pay it off. Um, but you know, just a couple of those times where it has leaked beyond where we were able to fully pay it off.

Chris, you're not ready. He's not ready. Chris, you're not ready.

you Here's the problem. I don't think you've hit I don't think you're ready.

Yeah. I don't think you've hit that moment. 10 more grand. Should he charge 10 more grand? Let's get it to 60 grand.

What's going to make you miserable? Something's going to have to make you so uncomfortable with these things that you're like, "No more." That's what we Ken, that is what we find on this show.

Oh, I agree 100%. You're not there. You You called us. Why? So, what is the reason for calling us? I feel pretty close. What's the reason for calling?

So, my question is dealing with the credit card debt. I' I feel like I've got three Well, maybe we just told you.

So, we got to stop using them first

and then we pay it down. Here, roll this roll this over in your mind, Chris. Roll this over in your mind. You cannot solve a problem while simultaneously creating it.

So, as long as you have these credit cards, you're creating the problem. So, you'll never solve it. It's infinite.

It's the cat chasing its tail, dog chasing its tail. So, you have to stop the crazy cycle. And the way you stop the crazy cycle is you say, "I'm not going to keep contributing to this problem. I'm not going to keep adding to the pile. I'm going to stop it. Turn off the faucet. Then you can clean up the mess." Yes.

Absolutely. And so what Ken and I were at that point and that's what kind of why I'm calling. Then you got to cut those bad boys up. Snap them up. Yeah.

Put them through the little dude. I'll cut them up right now. There we go. Cuz you guys got an impulse problem. Yeah.

And you just said that. Those are your words. You got them right now? We got We got about a minute and a half. You got them on you?

Yeah. You got You want to cut? Let's go to town. Yeah. Do it. Do it. And you're going to be in the fetal position later today. You're gonna maybe so in the shower because you're going to realize Oh my gosh. I This This was a security blanket. All right. So, you got some scissors.

Do we need do there? Okay. This Tell everybody what's happening right now. Describe what's happening. We got to make this exciting.

Oh, should I use names? Okay. Which one do we got here? This is Hold it up. Tell us what it's called. Chase Visa.

Chase Visa. Hold it near the phone so we can hear it. Okay. Hold on. Chase. This

is a Chase Visa.

All right. Let's see if you can hear that. Yeah. Oh, you catch it.

We heard we heard the cut and we heard we heard the exhale. Are you sure you weren't giving yourself a haircut? That was uh sounded like barber scissors. So, we got to we got to go. We got about 45 seconds. What are What's next?

Uh options for getting the credit card.

I don't want to do something stupid, but

I mean with these they're charging 30%.

Cut it. Stop talking and cut it. What are you cut? Cut it.

I'll cut another one. Come on. That's What is it? Which one are you cutting?

Tell us quick.

Hold on. City card. City card. Go. Yes.

Out of here. We won't wait for the sound. Just tell us when it's cut.

Oh, yes. There it is. Gone. It's gone.

Do you see? That's great. How many more you got?

Several. Wait till I get to the MX in the drawer. Keep going. Keep going.

Well, you know what? We are we're a cash business and we got a lot of people that

uh need to hear these advertisements coming up. So, we got to take care of business. You, my friend, need to keep cutting. Yeah. Keep cutting. Don't Good job. Good job, Chris. Love it. Did you hear that? Every time he cut one, he went He went Yeah. Yeah. It's painful.

It's visceral. You feel it. That is so

fantastic. Keep cutting, Chris. Yes. All

right. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is alongside 888255225.

That's the phone number to jump in. We'd love to hear from you taking your money calls, your income related calls today.

Matthew is joining us in Houston, Texas.

Matthew, how can we help?

Hey guys. Um, how are you today? Good.

How are you? I'm good, thank you. So,

uh, I'm 25 years old, uh, career salesman. At the beginning of this year, I, uh, landed a new job, which, um, I've

been, you know, my income has grown drastically. And, um, closing on a house at the end of the month. Um, and I just wanted to know, uh, you know, at my age, I want to start investing early. I also want to be debtree. uh is there a balance to investing uh you know post

tax dollars and paying off the home or

should all of my excess cash just be going to the principal and you know I I

start investing once that's paid off because you know at my age the the value of the compound interest if I start now I feel could really pay off down the road. Um so I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. Yeah I mean I think it's a good question to have and I think it's a question that a lot of people have. So, you just closed on this home.

Um, let's make sure you're in the position to begin investing. Do you have three to six months of expenses saved? I do. Okay, great. Um, and then at that

point, you would be considered baby step four, which is you're investing 15% of your gross income every single month.

Are you doing that?

I haven't started well I contribute to my uh company's 401k plan but other than

that I haven't I haven't started which is pre-tax but I haven't started investing any post tax um money yet.

Okay good. So what what I would say is

whatever you're doing now if you have if you have access to a match through that employer account I would invest up to that match. And you said it's an after tax.

It's a pre-tax uh with my employer. So, okay, they match 3%. I'm contributing 6%

right now. Okay. So, I would do up to the match and then I would go over to a Roth IRA and I would go ahead and max something like that out and then if you still have money left in your 15% of contributions, then you could go back out and get as close to maxing out that 401k as possible. The goal here is again

for you to be investing 15% of your gross income. And most people do it on a monthly basis because, you know, you can kind of set it and forget it with your employer. And so that's what I would do.

And then beyond the 15%, any money that you have extra, I would put it towards the paying off of the house. Um, and so that's the way we teach at 25 years old, you're not married yet. You don't have any kids yet. So, you can kind of forget for for now about baby step uh five

because you don't have any kids. There's no 529 that you need to really add to.

And so then for you, the next step is baby step six. You're putting extra money towards the house. And you get to decide uh how intentional you're going to be about that, right? You don't have to go crazy like you did with the other baby steps, but you're a single guy. You could probably, you know, make a lot of headway on that. What do you owe on the house? Uh so around 450, 460. Okay. I

haven't even made my first mortgage payment yet. Yeah. You said you closed here. You haven't even closed yet, right? Or you just closed? haven't closed yet, right? Okay. Yeah. And so that's what I would advise you to do.

That's what I did and that's what I do.

Yeah. I'm I'm going to agree with you. I mean, I I I love Jade's advice. Follow it. Uh but I just want to commend you. I I love this. I love this mindset that you've got, man. You haven't even made the first payment yet. You're calling and going, "Uh, what do I do first?" You

know, and but we want you to be set up for the long term, and you're going to have no problem getting rid of the house payment. Mhm. And the reason I suggested you going to the Roth right after the 3% is we want that 3% match. I mean, obviously that's free money, but then I love the Roth option for you because on down the line, you're going to want money that you have access to that you don't have to pay taxes on and that you don't have that required uh minimum distribution.

And so that's why we would say that and then come back and you can fill up that 401k when you're done.

I'd say around $400,000. Oo, wow. My

son. See, I've been wanting to ask that.

I I had to wait. I didn't want to interrupt, but I I was going I had a sense that he was that he he had jumped into a Well, when he told us the amount on the house, I was like, "Wait a second." Yeah. Yeah. So, here here's the only reason I asked that.

Again, this is all an exclamation point to J what Jade said. I can't add anything to what she said on that. U with that kind of income, you're going to be fine. You're going to be more than fine.

So, you just follow the baby steps. And with that kind of income, man, it is going to be ridiculous. Okay.

I So, I was just going to mention I took a look at the amortexization schedule on the loan and that really just kind of ticked me off, you know, like um so I want to let it tick you off, but go in order, you know what I mean? like get your investment strategy because because with that kind of income and and and what Jade's talking about with the investment calculator, it's one of our favorite things to do. It is. Are you running some numbers for him?

I want to run a few numbers for him. He's so upset about his loan, his his his mortgage, his amortization payment. We need to get his mind focused on this part of the advice. Okay.

So, then let's play a game. How much do you already have in retirement investments?

Only maybe $6 or $7,000. Okay. Okay, I'll put 7,000 in there. All right. And then let's say you contribute uh let's see 60,000 a

year. So let's say 5,000 a month. All

right. And then we'll get you at 10 10% rate of return cuz you make a lot of money, dude. If you don't do anything else from now until forever, like up from now until 65. Oh, actually, hold on. Hold on. Yeah, I was going to say I accidentally put in the wrong retirement age, but it's actually worth noting. I put in 48. Like, if you were to retire at 48, you'd have 5.3 million.

I thought I put in I thought I put in 65. Let's put in 65 and see what it says. If you go till 65,

I'm shook. Tell him the number now. Now, don't remind him what he's putting in every every every year. No, this is monthly. If you if you put in 5,000 a month cuz you make 400,000. Yeah. That's 60. That's 60,000 a year at a 10% annual

rate of return. You already have 7,000 there. If you do this from age 25, you said you're 25, right? Yeah, I'm 25.

Until age 65. You sitting down? Are you sitting down? Because I'm standing up.

$31 million.

$31 million. $31 million. That's crazy.

I had to put my pinky like on Austin

Powers. Yeah. Yeah. So now you feeling a

little bit better. I do. I feel a lot better. But you know, and that's that's really why I called you guys because I know that, you know, if I start now, by the time I'm, you know, 65, it's going to make a huge difference. And by the way, And oh, by the way, that doesn't mean you aren't paying your house off.

You're still paying the house off. Yeah.

We didn't even talk about that. And we didn't even talk about the fact that this is you starting like this is not you at your full potential. You're still going up in the world. You're still on an upward trajectory. Yeah, man. I thought my I thought something was wrong with my calculator. No, that's 15% of your income. And oh, by the way, after you budget all that, you are now making extra payments on the house. Oh, yeah.

And you'll pay the house off before you know it. So, this isn't an either or.

It's both. And that's the point of the exercise, right, Matthew? I'm happy that I know you. I'm happy I got to talk on the phone to you. Hey, check back in with us. Uh, keep letting us know how this goes because so many people need to hear this. If you can get these things firing on all cylinders, even if you're not making 400,000 a year, if you're making 200,000 a year, what is possible when you get a hold of your finances so early is so amazing. And for anybody

listening, if you've never like played with a an investment calculator, I suggest we have a great one, ramseyolutions.com. You can check it out or you can just Google Ramsey investment calculator and it'll pop up. But start playing with those numbers to see what your life can be. And I mean that's motivating at the very least.

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the call. Love the breakdown, Jay. That's always fun when we get into the numbers cuz you know in his mind he's like I got to pay that house off.

I got to pay that house off. I got to pay. It's like no, it's both. It's both.

It's not either or.

uh fun to run those numbers. And boy, that's a staggering number. That is a staggering number. And let me just And not many people make his money. No, they don't. I want to at least call out that early in life. at 25 to be making 400K.

No, he's in a he's in the top 1%. That's top 1% one 100%. So, I just want to at least call that out. But let's also Ken, let's explain why we care so much about paying off the primary mortgage because at the end of the day, yes, we want you to have the compound interest, but at the end of the day, there is going to be a time where you do not work and you don't want to be making payments on a mortgage. Your mortgage is the biggest line item in your budget. You want that

done and paid for by the time you're you're, you know, that age so that you can just live. Yeah, I totally totally

agree. There's a young man that's living like no one else. I promise you he's going to be living like no one else and also giving like no one else at a young age, by the way. Great stuff. Good hour, Jade Warshaw. All right, does it for this hour. There'll be more Ramsey show, I promise. [Music]

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Welcome to the Ramsay Show where we coach you to win in your life.

Specifically, winning in your money or with your money, winning in your work, and winning in your relationships. The phone number for you to get coached up today is88255225.

I'm Ken Coleman Jade Warshaw is with me and we're here for you. 8 8255225.

We'll start it off in the Motor City, Detroit, Michigan. Sarah is on the line.

Sarah, how can we help?

Hello. Hi. How are you? Hi. Good. How are you doing? Good. What can we help with? Well, first of all, thank you for taking my call. I love you guys. You guys are absolutely amazing and helped me so far. Um, what the challenge I'm facing now is I have $300,000 worth of debt and I just I can't see a way out.

Um, I'm working three jobs and it just it just doesn't seem to work. Wow. Well, break it down for Jade here. So, start off with uh your income uh through the three different jobs. Give us a range and then walk walk her through your debt. My salary position I bring in 80.

I'm sorry. My salary is 80. Um I gross

um I'm sorry, I bring in 80 and then I net 55 when you take out tax insurance.

Mhm. And then I have a second job that I

I gross 40, but then I I'm an independent contractor, so I have to take out taxes and stuff. So I net about 30 to 35,000. Good. And then I have another part-time job that brings in about 600 bucks a month. Okay. Okay. So

72 on the 85. So you're somewhere in that 92 93 range with those numbers. Is that right? Net. Yeah. I mean that sounds amazing, but that's Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, but you can do something with that. Dr. Jade is in today, so it's

going to be okay. I'm going to pretend like you didn't say that. Um,

so the debt doctor. No. Oh, okay. Okay.

I'll take that. The debt know what I was doing. I didn't know where you were going, Sarah. Now that I know where he's going, you can do surgery on this. I can help you. There you go. So, you're bringing in almost $8,000 a month, which ain't too shabby. Um, but you've got $300,000 of debt. So, walk us through this debt. It's all student loans.

Okay. Private, federal. Um, I have

$12,000 with private. I will have those hopefully paid off by December. Good.

The rest, the 300,000 is all government.

Okay. What was it for? I'm just curious.

I went to law school. And are we practicing law? Yes. And that's the uh

that's the the number one amount of money you gave us. What kind of law are you doing? Yeah, I do uh estate planning, probate stuff. Gosh, it feels like we've got a path to be making a whole lot more than that.

Am I right or are you feeling like you're capped out and why? No, you hit the nail on the head.

Uh do you is there anything keeping you tied to the Detroit area?

Uh family. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right.

One other silly question, Jaden, and I'll get out of the way. Um I I I am curious with with what you've done so far. Is there a pivot

or some type of additional legal work that you could do that would add to your income based on your current qualification or specialization?

So, I got my real estate license about a year and a half ago. So, that's my second job. Yeah. I'm talking just the legal field right now.

Well, the reason why I got a different type of job is I'm I'm really burned out practicing law. So, I'm trying to expand on other things. So, that's why I got my real estate license to help bring in more money, but that's extremely part-time, but I I really want to try to pivot out of practicing. I get it. But, I'm going to And again, I'm about ready to hand it to you, Jade. No problem. But you got $300,000 in law school debt. I

don't think you get to burn out yet. And I and I think that the greatest opportunity for you to make money is through your law, your legal work. Yeah.

You just don't have time to sell houses.

That's a full-time deal, you know? So, it's either or. It's like you go all in on selling homes and if

you do that, then there's no limit to what you can make. But I'm just going to make that point. You you you know, you got to bring in some more income here cuz 300,000 is doable. Well, I'm going to hand it over to Jade. Jade, walk her through the uh the process here. Okay, so the loans, did you consolidate them or are they single? Singular. They're single. Okay, good. That's good. That's good. Okay, so as tright as this may

sound, all we're doing is listing them from smallest to largest and we're paying minimum payments on all of them.

Hopefully, uh I don't know, are you enrolled in any of the assistance plans?

Are you in save plan or anything like that? the income driven payment. I've been on that for about 13 years. Okay.

And is it going to run out or do you still have time to be on it? I mean, honestly, I try to reenroll and it takes months and months to get an answer. So, I I don't know. I'm kind of in limbo right now.

Okay. What's your current payment for the for the lot of them? I don't pay anything. Okay, good.

So, here's what we do. The fact that your minimum payments are zero is a good thing for you right now because that means you can put the full strength of your income on the smallest debt and knock it out fast. I wish there was a way to tell you that there was an easy button here. There's just not.

And if you've listened to our show for any bit of time, you know my husband and I had 280. Okay? And at the time we weren't making what to combine what you're making now.

part of this that you have to just, you

know, ride that income until the the

debt is gone. You know, once you have maxed out your money for your time, and I don't know that you have yet, Ken, I agree with Ken. I think that you can do more to max out your time and get better money for it.

And then when it's done, it's done. That song is going to be in my head now all day. And I'm have you to thank for that.

I'm kind of like Yeah. And I'm kind of like torn because I actually make more money selling real estate in half the amount of time versus my salary position. Of course, I get that paycheck every two weeks. Well, then what's that transition look like?

Cuz I that's what I'm getting at. If you get after it and and you can double triple your income, then this is a game changer. Key key word is consistently.

uh, stock some money up or something to be able to then go, all right, I'm dropping one of these jobs. My gosh, you got more jobs, you know, than you than you know what to do with right now. So, we got to create some margin timewise, which means we got to have some margin moneywise, right, Jade? You track it with me.

And then what what is what would it take for her to get to a place to where she can now go all in on real estate? And that's going to take a little bit of time to build that pipeline up. Yeah.

looking for you to be able to replace whatever your income was at its best, right? And if you can do that consistently with real estate, I say more power to you. The weird thing about real estate though is of its nature, it tends to be Yeah. up and down. Yeah.

What's the market like in Detroit area?

It's slow. I get I get consistent at

least one or two listings and closings.

Uh but it's a roller coaster. Yeah. See, so you got to Jade's point, got to factor that in. The market determines what's going on in some degree. You don't just, you know, hang your shingle and it's everybody wants to buy a house from me. I'm going to tell you, when you have this kind of debt, there is something to be said for being able to count on. I know what's coming in and I know what I'm doing with it. There's just kind of that assembly line. Yeah.

Assembly line that you can just I'm cranking it out. I'm paying off the debt and this is temporary and when the time comes, you'll do what you love. Yeah, I agree. Uh I because of the market where

it's at, I'm going to go with Jade's.

decide what you can do and lock in on it. And then if something changes, then the timeline changes. But get that that mindset for the climb. Right? It's going to take me a while to climb this mountain, but I will get there.

Appreciate the call. You got this. Stay encouraged. This is the Ramsay Show.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show America.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

The phone number for you to jump in. we'd love to coach up today is88255225.8825-55225.

Amy joins us now in Vancouver. Amy, how can we help today?

Hi. Um, my question is about a shared

asset I have with my other adult sibling. Um, so the asset is actually in

Texas and it was given to all of us by

my parents and um it was it's definitely

been a blessing and um it's getting to

the point where there wasn't really a long-term plan put in place. So it's starting to feel less like a blessing and more of a point of conflict. Um so

me and all my siblings have lived there.

It's a house. Um, and all me and all my siblings have our names are on it and we have all lived there at some point um while paying rent

except my brother is now he's been in the house for about six years and he hasn't paid rent and he's currently

um on leave with the military um and I

tried to reach out to make a plan before he left and he didn't respond to anything. So, I'm wondering how to navigate this asset and keep it a blessing um while preserving our relationships with this. How many siblings total? There's

four of us. And how did he get this

deal? How did he just start living in when when when everybody else has lived in it and paid rent? I'm presuming you guys have rented it to other people as well. Is that true? Um I think we've rented it to one other family. Um, how did he get away with living rentree for six years?

Uh, so it was kind of like on your

integrity. Um, there was an account set up and you put a certain amount in the

that account every month. Um, and he decided he didn't want to use that same account. He wanted to do his own thing, which we're like, that's fine. You know, you can pay rent how you What is the rent? What is it? It's $250 a month. Oh

my gosh. This is a joke. And so he's not been paying it. Not not once. What do the other siblings think about this?

So they think like we would we don't

know how to resolve it. The communication's not great. Um they kind

of want to be like, well, yeah, we'd like to talk about they kind of written it off as like, oh, like we're just

never going to see money from that. It's just never going to nothing's going to change. How how' you arrive at the 250?

Is that like an arbitrary amount or is that maintenance? What is that? So that

was set up like over a decade ago, like a long time ago. Um m and it was it was

with the purpose of like oh this is affordable so we can live in it and save money so we can you know kind of get ahead. It doesn't include like utilities or anything like that. So all four of you are on the deed. Yes. What's it

worth the asset? probably 200,000

um at the on the bottom of both side and

there's no debt on it, right? No. No.

So, do the other three siblings I'm sorry, there's four of you. So, the other two plus you are they all wanting to get out of this as well.

Are you there? I'm sorry. I I couldn't hear the end of that question. Okay, I'm here. I'm asking, do the other siblings, are they in agreement with you about they want to get out, or are you the only one thinking going, "How do I get out of this?" No, the other siblings were all in agreement. Okay. Okay. Well, that helps. Majority rules. So, so I I'm going to I don't know. So, I want to say something, but I I'll first say I don't know. I've never experienced this before. So, um

I would be seeking counsel, uh actual legal counsel on this, uh on on what your options are when you've got four people on a deed, three want to get out.

Um I just don't know enough legal on that. But I would say this,

however this goes down, it's time for three of you to stop

letting him bully you.

This guy's a This guy's a bully. And I know it's your brother. I'm just telling you like it is. He's not returning your calls. He's just acting like a school

ground, like on the playground bully.

I'm not going to talk to you. I'm giving you the silent treatment. I'm creating all this tension and I'm not playing

Paul. I'm just creating all this and I'm daring you. He's daring you guys to do something. And I think he's doing it because he knows you're not willing to do anything about it.

And I think u that's the only little thing I wanted to put in there because I think however you resolve this Jade I'll get out of the way if you've got a point on this but I I think whatever needs to happen he needs to realize the gig is up. Yeah. I think you you've long outstayed your welcome. You've been you've taken advantage of us.

It's over. Yeah. So just for clarity for me. So you guys the plan was when you live in the house you put the $250 in the account and that's split amongst the other three siblings, right?

No.

towards repairs like oh if something like breaks you have money in the account to pay for it. And so while he's been living in the house if something broke what happened?

Um I'm not sure. Well he there are things broken and they're just not fixed. So he just didn't take care of the place while he was there either.

Right. Oh wow. Okay. So yeah I mean the

majority rules here if you have to get a judge to force this I I don't think it would be that difficult to do it. Um, we could talk about the idea of him buying you guys out, but I don't think that's gonna happen. It's just not gonna happen. Um, so yeah, you might have to sit down.

All of you guys sit down and try to make it light, but for me, the fact that you're calling, it's no longer light. So, you can try to keep that a light conversation, but I think the longer you let this go on, the worse it gets. So, to Ken's point, I Yeah, I think you guys get together, somebody talk to a judge and say, "How do we force this?" Because we're ready to sell it. We've kept it this long.

He's not paying rent.

I kind of like the fact that he doesn't owe each of you because I mean, if if you guys are splitting this money, truly, he'd owe each of you $6,000. But he doesn't since he's not even taking care of the place. Although, who knows if that'll affect the resale value, but I'd get out of it immediately. I would, too, because if you look at this split, let's say they sell it for 200 and you it's less than 50 grand each.

Yeah. It's just not enough money to be dealing with all this garbage.

I think your instincts are right. Let's get out of this thing. No messing around. It's not we're spending a bunch with a lawyer to the judge thing, whatever. I think Jade's right. Let's clean, efficient, force his hand. We're

selling this thing and we we we avoid all the tension and then Thanksgiving and Christmas takes care of itself. But yeah, I'd get out quick. I really would.

That's that's an unfortunate situation.

I mean, when you get and see, that's okay. So, I'm sitting here and I didn't ask. Okay, I've already put on hold, but like I didn't ask. I guess I should have if mom and dad are still alive. I got the picture they aren't around. I got the feeling they're not around. But I just and for that reason, I just I sat there and I went,

note to self, if Stacy and I want to bless our three kids, I need to bless them individually, not try to do a, hey,

we're going to do this asset and work the three of you into it. I just sat there and I went, note to self, cash money and individually. Like, you're not in it together. Yeah. I'm blessing you this way. I'm blessing you this way, this way, and it's not this like joint thing where there's just it's just what I don't see what the value is in that.

It was probably the family home is my guess. And I think and they probably had

the option to sell it early on, but they weren't ready to part with it yet. And so it probably just became Listen, I am adding all sorts of story to this that I don't know are true. So I'm sorry if that's not true. But you agree, right, that to to give four kids a house. All

right, you guys. Here you go. Yeah.

Even if there's not a problem, it just feels like it's easy for a problem to exist because then you have four different people who have four different views of life. Yeah. Money. It's like when you get a gift card to a restaurant you don't really like. You're happy for the gift card, but now you're forced to eat at Applebee's. Oh jeez, you just

went there. Just saying. A shot across the bow. I'm just saying. Eating good in the neighborhood. I mean, there's a lot of people that like an Applebee's. Hey, note to self team. No Applebee's gift

cards for Jade. That would not go over well. Yeah, it's Where would one Where would one get you a gift card, too? Um, I'm with you. Asking for a friend. Visa gift card. I don't know. I want to know.

I'm putting you on the spot. 20 seconds.

If I'm going to get you, Stacey and I are going to get you and Sam a gift card to a restaurant. Where do you want? Where do you want to go? Um, and it has to be national so people know it. Okay. Come on. I don't know. J.

Alexander. All right. Do you guys have that? Yeah. Do you guys you live here too? You have I'm not going to lie. I want Do you guys have that? Are you aware you live in Middle Tennessee as well? I wanted to say Red Lobster. I I don't mind that at all. I love a good lobster. All right, quick break. This is the Ramsay Show.

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You're listening to the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Ken Coleman,

bestselling author of many books, but most recently Find the Work You're Wired to Do, home of the Get Clear Career

Assessment, which is very, very great.

Very fun, very fun tool. And it's always good to be with you. By the way, you're a best-selling author, too. Yeah.

Money's not a math problem. Pick it up.

You can find them all at ramiesolutions.com/store.

Get into it. Get involved. I want to get involved with these phone lines. And by the way, if you want to get involved with us, call us. The number is 88825-5225 and we will pick up your call. Let's pick up Alicia's call. Alyssa, actually is how we're going to pronounce that. Green Bay, Wisconsin. What's going on, Alyssa?

Hi. Thanks so much for taking my call.

Did I say it right? Um, it's Alyssa.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Got you. Yeah. Very nice. Um, thanks. Um, so I have another

insurance question for you. Wow. It's the day of insuranceances. Wow. All right. Hit us with it. So, mine's about life insurance. So, my husband and I were actually in disagreement on how much we should have. Okay. Um, so we're

and we're actually on the same page about most everything else when it comes to finances, but this one. Um, you So,

I'll just lay it out. Um, yeah. What does he think? Yeah. How much? Okay. So,

we both right now have 500,000 on each

of us, and he is completely fine with that. Okay. Um, and I used to be, but

then I've been listening to you guys a lot more, and now I know that it should be 10 to 12 times our annual income.

That's right. Um, and so we're just not at enough. And he is like not about it.

Well, this makes him wrong and this makes you right. Well, let And yeah, I agree with Ken and let's talk deeply about it. Um the purpose of insurance is

to uh if something god forbid were to

happen to either of you, anybody that's dependent on your income, they will be set up, right? And it's not just for the moment, it's ongoing. And so what's your income and what's his income?

Um so mine's right at about 100 and his is about 130. Okay. So yours is at 100,

his is at 130. So if something, god forbid, were to happen to you, he's he's got 5 years salary basically, but you're

saying, "Hey, I'd love for this to be even better. I'd love for you to be that if we do what I'm saying, which is you'd have, you know, over a million dollars of coverage." 2.5 is what I'm recommending. I'm bumping it up. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. Because you got them at 230 combined income. Yeah. But I'm saying individual policies, right? I know. But my point total is going to be 2.5 between the two of them.

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. But if something were to happen to you, like for you to be able to provide 10 10 basically 10

years of of your salary to him. What a great gift. Yeah. I mean that allows and vice versa. So what's the difference pay? Like he's probably thinking about quarterly payments or monthly payments.

What does this look like? Have you priced out the numbers with Xander?

Yeah, actually I did. Um, and so

basically like he thinks it's a waste of money and honestly we probably would have none if it weren't for we're in the military so we have to take that 500 each. Okay. Um, and so thank goodness.

But um, and no and he does have a point like he says, you know, like if if one of us were to pass the other one, you know, with that 500 like could easily pay off everything and then we each make enough to like, you know, live our with our daily expenses. So I get it. But I was telling him because I heard you say actually not that long ago. Um, and it kind of made me like really look into this and like be like, "Wow, I never thought about this before." Because we had always had that same mindset as like he has now.

the intent is that if they pass, it's

not just to like, oh, here pay off your debt and and like not a retirement plan.

It's like, hey, invest this and then the

interest should pretty much make up for the income that you're losing. And I was like, oh my goodness, that makes so much sense. So, I really want to do it. Yeah.

Um, but he is like he he just doesn't he

thinks it's a waste of money. And and of course, like he jokes when I mention it and he's like, "You know what? I'm not going to die until we're way older anyway, so it doesn't even matter." And I'm like, "Well, I love your confidence." That makes me a little uncomfortable almost. I think he's uncomfortable. I think I think the whole, like you said, it's the 500. It's part of work. It's required. So, in many ways, for him, that was a no-brainer.

But when it's time to actually turn on the, you know, turn on the lights in his brain and start thinking about, it's an uncomfortable conversation. You're talking about what happens when you, you know, kick the bucket and that's not I I'd flip this. I'd flip this on him. Uh, I think he's real cavalier about this. I think he's too cavalier about it to be completely honest. Um, but okay, play it

his way. Go. All right, I did the numbers. I did the ran the numbers. Got some quotes from Xander. Let me show you the quotes. And since you're okay if I die just living with the 500. Turns out

I'm okay with that, too. But tell you

where I'm not okay if you die early, Sparky McGee. There you go. I don't think 500 is enough for my safety gland.

And I got some numbers I ran. And uh I'm

pretty much telling you that we need to do this. I'm not asking your permission.

I'm just getting you to buy in from my peace of mind. And I'd lay the real numbers out, which by the way, I'm just curious, what would it what would the total increase be yearover-year with the

numbers you got from Xander? I'm just curious. I want to know, too. So, yeah.

And actually, I was really impressed.

Um, so I did a quote on just mine for

another 500 because that would put me at a million. Perfect. Um, and that's only going to be like $17 a month. What? So,

I go back to Sparky and I'm sorry I'm calling your husband Sparky, but but he's kind of irritating me a little bit and I'm trying to be nice. I'd go back to him and go, "Hey, listen. I know you're good with the 500k if I kick the bucket early. I'm not. I just bumped it

up to what this guy Dave Ramsey's been teaching for decades and uh it's $17. I

mean, come on. That's one drive-thru.

That's one time through the drive-thru.

Yeah, that's two Starbucks, you know.

Come on. So, I would just present. I'd

present it that way and say, "I'm doing this." Yeah. Yes. Ken. Oh, by the way, we do we do have to agree on everything.

Like, that is something that we Oh, I know. I know. I'm having some fun with this. I'm not But but we're also talking about $17 a month. I don't think this is

a knockdown dragout is my point. Is he being stingy? Are you guys still in debt? Is that why he's being kind of tight with the purse strings. Okay. Yes, we are. We do have debt, but it is not out of control. Okay. Um, is he super tight?

Yes. Yes.

Um, and and the thing is is like I it's not that I don't understand it and I value it and everything. Um, and but I

just think that like he thinks it's unnecessary. So, we are not about unnecessary spending. Um, and he's like, "No, we're completely covered." Like we like he is like, "Oh, no." like, you know, if if the 500,000 that would take care of everything and we both make enough income that like all of our, you know, monthly expenses are good. There's just no reason for it.

But let's go back to the basics of this. We need to and this is what you tell him. And hey, play the call like the this this is documented. Oh, I can't wait.

Sorry, man, for calling you sparking.

But so here's the thing. Let's go back to the basics on this because when we uh

what we teach here, right, the baby steps and getting out of debt, the whole entire purpose is is to change your family tree. It's all legacy built at the end of the day. It provides peace now, but it's also providing peace for the for the future and for the people that come after you.

that fail safe that kicks in. And to spend uh Sparky, Marky, Mark, Biff,

whatever your name is, to spend the extra $17, bud. It's $24 a year. It's

$24 to make sure your family has half a

million more for, by the way, for your peace of mind. I keep playing that card.

I wasn't I was having fun with it, but I'm not joking around. He's tight. Play to that. Go. You're tight because you're fearful about money and stuff, and I appreciate that. There you go, Ken. But guess where? I'm tight. I'm nervous about this. And it's $24 a month. So go.

So you know what? Yes, we got to be in agreement. I'd say Sparky, it's time to have a new budget meeting. We have It's like calling Congress back for a special session. We're having a special midmon

budget meeting. And I am going to find $17 a month. Yeah. To make sure that I'm

not stressed out when you die early cuz you drink too much Diet Coke or whatever. Sorry, Diet Coke drinkers. You mean sorry Sparky? Sparky, we love you,

Sparky. We want the best. We do love you. Help your wife out, dude. Come on.

This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Alongside Jade Warsaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

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All righty. Today's question comes from Andy in Delaware. My fiance had a lot of

debt related to a prior divorce. She's currently living with her parents and her parents used a little cash and 10 credit cards to pay off her debt. So now she owes them close to $75,000.

I know legally most of this is not in my fiance's name, but morally we owe it together uh when we get married. I didn't agree with how her mom put this debt on credit cards and it doesn't sound like they are paying much more than the minimums right now. My plan is to take out a personal loan after we get married to pay off her parents in full so I have control over the debt completely. This would drop down the interest significantly.

We could then attack it with both of our incomes to pay it off as quickly as we can.

Okay, so just to clarify, there was a divorce. she had debt. Her parents said, "We'll take care of it, but we're doing it with credit cards." And you're like, "No, when we get married, we're going to take out a personal loan to clear it." Um, I don't necessarily like that method. I like that you're saying, "Hey, after we get married, then we'll tackle it together." That is right. So, green check on that. Um, I would not do the loan. Um, the truth is, you're only on

the hook for the 75,000. you're not necessarily on the hook for any interest that is incred because of their method of paying for this. That part is on them because they chose that route. They chose that card with that interest rate. Unless there's a conversation that I don't know about in my mind, I'd be like, I owe you $75,000.

Ken, I couldn't agree more. It's a lot easier. They they've already they've already assumed this debt for her. This is not something that she put on them.

They did this. Uh, I would pay the parents directly and I agree with Jade.

I wouldn't worry about the interest. That's their problem. I think they'll be thrilled that you guys are serious about paying it off and I think it's a lot easier to pay them off. Now, I would only say the caveat to that is

you both need to agree, you and your fiance, that we aren't skipping this. We're going to treat this like it is a private loan. Like our credit would be affected, like they'd come after us with collections. all of the things that people that loan money put in place as some sense of accountability.

And I think that's the key or else this could create tension. And I I don't think that's the case here. I think I think I think this is like we want to get this out. I love the urgency.

Love the character and the integrity here. But I agree with Jade 100%. Pay the parents directly. Here's the problem I do foresee is that he he's already noticing, hey, her mom put this on credit cards.

It and this is him speculating. doesn't seem like she's making payments.

something there where they're paying the minimums. Yeah, they're paying minimums. So, I do foresee a problem of down the line them saying, "Well, we did this, but it's the balance has grown." So, I

do think you need to have some sort of really really clear conversation about how interest is handled and how that part is not pertaining to you and and records, records, records, records, records. I would treat every payment that's sent to the parents, however you choose to do it. I would have that in a

journal, a a financial record. Your bank would easily give you that. I would do that so that it is tracked. Yes.

If you have the conversation that Jade is recommending, and I agree. Um because again, they could do something dumb with all that 75,000 and not pay off the cracker. But at that point, and ain't my problem. And let it be known when Ken and I talk about you having this conversation, we really mean uh your your wife, not you.

You need to stay far from this conversation and let her speak for both of you because otherwise this could get I agree grizzly.

Nick, how can we help?

Hey, uh Ken and Jade. Um thank you for taking my call. Um I had a question about having dual employment. Um reason

being was uh we have three boys, um

seven, six, and three. So we're in that messy middle. Um, and I wanted to give my wife the opportunity to, you know, be a stay-at-home mom. Uh, she was a nurse to begin with, and then, uh, once we had our third child, um, I just said, you know, might might as well stay at home.

We can, uh, survive with my income. Um,

now that she, um, they took advantage of her or she took advantage by herself going through her masters to get nurse practitioner. Um, and she just completed the program and you told her to stay home and Uh, yeah. Hold on. Hold on. I did. Okay.

So, um, can you go ahead? Yeah, keep going.

That's all right. Go ahead. Yeah, keep going. Set it. Get it. Get it. Get get to our question. Yep. Okay. So, uh, my I

work for a fire department and I make about 110,000 and then I also have a family business where I make about a h 100,000 as well. Um obviously the fire is is pension and then the family business is just straight salary. Um there is a simple IRA that I can contribute to. Um my question is is now that she has her nurse practitioner license and we have no student debt um

am I uh crazy to leave my fire

department employment and give up my uh pension uh

opportunity.

um and allow her income to supplement my

loss and you know obviously strive to

make more as a family business or do I just grind it out with both employments if I can manage it? All right. So, uh how much is she going to excuse me? How much is she going to make as a nurse practitioner?

I would I would hope about 140. Okay.

So, 140. And the family business where you're making a hundred right now, do you own that or are you working for another family member? Uh for my dad.

Okay. And and is that what you want to do long term? Let's go 15 20 years from now. Do you want to be a fireman and be in the business or do you just want to be running that business or not in it at all?

No. And so that's the unique part is I in about five years I had the opportunity to leave the fire department under a full pension or I I'm able to be

um I can uh pull out from the pension. I

I know but I'm not I'm not focusing on that. I'm asking do you want to be long-term owner or involved in the family business? Yes or no? Yes. Yes. I

mean that's the dream. That's what you want, right? Yes. Okay. So what would benefit you leaving the fire department right now? Forget the pension. And I know you're all hung up about the pension. I don't really care about the pension. I'm not minimizing the pension, but we don't make decisions based on pensions. Okay. So, um, my question is,

if you leave the fire department, that's a certain block of hours every week and you just focused on the business, would that allow you to do more and get paid

more in the family business?

Yeah, there would have to be a discussion, but yeah, absolutely. I'd have the discussion. Dad, if I walk away from the fire department and I start a full-time and I'm I'm all my energy in here, what's that look like? This is very simple.

Stop thinking about the fire pension. Because if you walk away from the pension to make your life better in the now and the next, nobody cares about the pension. Jade, I want to know where does the stay-at-home mom who was going to be a nurse practitioner fit into all this? Because that was the thing that made me be like, "Wait, what?

What?" It sounds like she's back in, right? To work. Yeah. No, and that was the goal.

I mean, she just wanted she that was her personal um goal was to become a nurse practitioner and okay, her being stay at home mom, it gave her the opportunity to just focus on school and nothing else.

She's excited and to get back in. And does she have a gig? Uh she's uh

currently seeking. Yeah. Okay, cool.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I walk away from the fireman position. There's You're only in it because of this pension. That's the only evidence you've given us as to why you'd keep doing it. And I just don't think you need to keep doing it. Now, you can if you want to, but if I'm trying to grow in one area, which is for you as a family business, every second I'm spending in the fire station is

taking away from that long-term goal.

And if your wife makes 110, she's

replacing the fireman salary. Yeah, why

not? Bingo. This is a no-brainer. If it

plays out the way that you want it to play out, maybe wait until she gets the gig. I'm afraid to pull the trigger.

Well, don't pull the trigger until she starts making the money and she's in.

No, absolutely. Yeah, man. You got this.

That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I was confused in the very beginning, but I also jumped the gun, so that's why I was confused. Yeah. You got You got a little fired up there. I know. I did. I You thought that was going a different direction. I did. I did. Don't tell me what I can do. Is that what I heard?

Yeah. Yeah. I I uh I

I digress. She's a strong woman. Hear her roar, folks. Good hour. This is the

Ramsay show.

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[Music] [Applause] Welcome to the Ramsay Show where we help you win in your life, America.

specifically winning in your money, winning in your work, and winning in your relationships. The phone number for us to coach you up is8825-55225.88255225.

The dynamo next to me is the one, the only Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.

She'll take lead on the money calls and help you manage the money. And I want to help you make more money. So, it's a good combo. Let's get right to it. We're going to go to Denver, Colorado. Peter is there. or Peter, how can we help today? Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. You bet.

So, I'm calling in uh because my wife and I are in baby step two and trying to

get out of debt and um about a year and

a half ago. I got my wife a horse lease started uh because she loved being with

horses and working with them. She was at the time volunteering at a horse center for people with disabilities. Um, so she

got to basically just shovel poop and be around horses, but didn't get to ride ever. And I saw how much joy that was bringing her, so I got her this horse lease. What's that mean? Can you explain that more to me? Yeah, I've never heard of that. Yeah, so basically we pay $350

a month. Um, and she can go out to this

property and ride the horse whenever she wants. Um, her, myself, and the kids

actually. Um, so it's been a lot of fun.

But um I'm wondering if we're being irresponsible since we're in baby step two. Um is it Can I ask more? I'm just

going to dig deeper on the horse lease real quick. So is it there's several horses on the property and she can ride any horse or does she kind of get assigned a horse that's like that's her horse? Tell me more about it. The is it personal? Is it um Yeah. So we just have

the one horse that we have access to.

And how long is how long have you been doing this? Uh about a year and a half.

year and a half and and the idea of her giving this up is met with what kind of reaction?

Um, not great. Uh, a lot of tears and um,

she feels like it just helps her a lot emotionally. Um, yeah. How and wow, how

long would you have to give it up? I mean, how long is you guys' journey? Are we talking? Well, so I don't So we have

like 21,000 in debt. I've got 3,000 on

the last credit card. Um

5,000 maybe it's over 21. So 5,000 on my

truck. Um and then uh I just got a personal loan

for 15,000. Okay. To cover last year's taxes. Um cuz that was the first year we'd ever had to pay taxes. Okay. So you're at 23 now. Yeah. Okay. So is that

it or is there more? That's it. Okay. Um

and what's the income? Sorry, Ken. No, go ahead. Um make about 120,000. Oh,

okay. So why this is going to be gone in a year? You're going to live on 100 and you're going to knock this out in one year or less? Yeah. Shooting for like

nine months, but we'll see. Good for you. Can she work or does she work outside the home? Uh, so she homeschools our three boys and stays at home. Um, that's not what I asked. Can she work?

So, she does sometimes. Um, doing what?

So, I I'm a trim carpenter. Uh, and so

when we're done with houses, um, the general contractor that I work for, we'll hire her to go in and do uh, the post construction cleanup. And what kind of money does she make and and how long does it take her to make this money?

It's very sporadic because it's just when we finish houses. Um, so it could be like three right in a row or like the next one we'll have is maybe two months away. How much time does she take when she cleans?

One to two, one day usually. One day. And so she's able to do this with the kids.

Um, yeah. Usually we just have uh my father-in-law babysit. All right. I'm gathering information over here. Right.

I mean, I'd simplify it. I'd simplify it like this. And some people might hate this answer. Technically, if you're in baby step two, you cut out things like this. Now, you guys aren't you're not

burning like some people are in debt.

And you could be if you choose not to go hard on this, but you're going to be out of debt so quickly. What I'd say is if you want to spend $350 and keep this horse lease up with this horse that you've probably established a relationship with, just earn the $350 a month. Earn it back. I was, first of all, I am shocked right now, but I love

it. You I thought you were gonna go hard on this one. It's an amount of money that's that is truly not going to make or break them to that extent. Yes, but I'm with you. I want to make sure the audience hears this. I want to make sure that Peter hears this. I love this idea cuz that's what I was going to say. No, mama needs to go make the 350 or there

is no horse. Yeah. If because she's got to cover the horse. But I do have one question on that, Peter. Um, let's say it takes you nine months and all this is clear. Is that what you Is that the number you gave us?

That's what we're shooting for. Yeah.

What's the name of the horse? Jesse. Is

Jesse going to be available for lease 9 months from now? Uh, it's certainly not guaranteed. Is Jesse old?

Well, that doesn't make any difference cuz if Jesse dies, we can't lease him anyway. I know, but I'm just saying maybe she wants to live out her Jesse's last night. I'm going to throw a wrinkle into this. Peter and Jade. I'm gonna throw something out and let you two discuss it. Okay. You ready? Yeah, I'm ready. I like your idea, but I think the better idea is to go talk to Jesse's owner, okay? And tell Jesse's owner what the story is, okay?

And say, nine months from now, we're going to be debtree. And this is super important to my wife. I need to know that we can jump back into the contract and lease Jesse nine months from now.

And I would take the 350 and I would help mama get motivated to knock this debt out and say we're going to stop riding Jesse for 9 months.

Okay. But she I'm just throwing a I'm throwing a hardcore alternative out there. Peter Jay discuss. So Peter, are

you saying that if you were to cancel the lease, are you worried about Jesse not being available and that somebody else would take the lease spot? Is that what you're concerned about?

Essentially, yes. Yeah. She could just lease her out to somebody else, which is why I have the conversation with Jesse's owner. Yeah. Well, but if I'm the owner, if I'm if I'm Jesse's owner, I'm like, you want me to hold the horse? Like, how can she not lease him out to like 50 people? How many times can you ride Jesse in one month? I mean, that's he's got to be available.

So, we're um there's usually only one.

By the way, I should point out to people who just jumped into the call, Jesse is a horse. We're talking about riding a horse. I should have probably made that clear. I'll refer to him as the horse from now once so as not to confuse everybody. All right. But how many times can you ride the horse in a month? He she the owner. She goes out like once a month, right? Twice a week. Twi Okay.

Twice. Oh, that's a lot. Well, twice a week for $350. And I don't want to get too deeply into your business, but I did want to ask cuz you kind of alluded to it. Does your wife struggle with like some anything mentally because you said it helps her mental health.

Um, I don't think it's so much like a mental health problem so much as just like she she's with the boys constantly. She homeschools totally and like her No need

our children drive us crazy. We are she needs a little time with nature. Come on. Okay. I I listen. I think Ken's idea

can't hurt. It can't hurt you to go by and say, "Hey, we've got a ninemonth window. We've been working with you guys for a year and a half. We love it.

can we need to temporarily suspend this and then we'll be back. You know, give him the date and time. If he says yeah, say yeah. But if not, yeah, tell mom and be like, "Hey, mama, if you want to keep this going, you just got to fund it." Because we decided that our priority is paying off the debt.

And so we decided that that's the priority with our current income. And I want to stand by that. And if you want to do something more, clean some houses. Mama got stuff funded.

Clean some toilets. Well, it doesn't have to be toilets. That's the last thing I'm going to That's the last job I'm taking. I'm trying to make a point.

She really wants to ride the horse. You got to pay for it.

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You're listening to the Ramsay Show. I don't know about you, Ken, but I feel like the last couple of calls we've gotten have had something to do with protections. Making sure that an inheritance is safe, making sure that the money and the net worth that we've amassed is safe, making sure that my identity is safe. It all has to do with insurance.

And everybody wants to have the right insuranceances. After all, insurance is there to mitigate risk, right?

And it can be very confusing to navigate all of the insuranceances and doing, you know, going through. I don't know, Ken, that is something that if we start talking about insurance, my eyes glaze over and I want someone to handle it for me. Yes, I I would concur. And so our

Ramsay trusted pros, they shop the market and they compare all the insurance quotes so that you don't have to and so that I don't have to. And your pro will compare the quotes. They'll look at the discounts and they will bundle the deals for you at no extra cost, which is great. When my husband and I moved here, uh Ken, we were, you know, in a new house.

We had to have the the housing insurance for that. We needed to get the umbrella coverage and all that. And they shopped all the quotes. They rolled it into one nice neat bow and we got more coverage for less money.

Like that. I love that. So, Ramsey Trusted Pros will make sure you have all the coverage you need and nothing that you don't. So, there's not going to be any fluff here.

Ramsey Trusted Pros.

And here's the best part, they truly do have your best interest at heart. I've experienced that, Ken. I know that you have experienced that. So, the question you need to be asking yourself is, do you have the right coverage based on your individual needs? Okay? And so, to do that, go to ramseyolutions.com/co.

Again, that's ramissysolutions.com/co.

And let me just add because

I hear it in the wind. Insurance, guys,

is not a baby step, okay? It's not something that you wait until you're after, you know, after you've paid off your debt or after you've saved up your savings to do. Insurance is something that you do the moment that you've learned about it. And so, if you've been listening to this show for a couple of segments or even just this one segment and you're like, "Oh, you know what?

I don't have life insurance." That is your signal that you need to act on that today, not once you've paid your debt off. Okay?

That's uh the the partnership that we have. You need health insurance today.

If you're a renter and you don't have renters's insurance, this is your sign from this is your sign. You need renters's insurance. You are out here with no coverage. Anything can happen if you don't know if you have the bare minimum of auto. You need to do our

insurance checkup and make sure that you are covered because if you get in an accident and your coverage isn't what you thought it would be, you're about to be up a creek without a paddle. So, please, please, please prioritize this in your every dollar budget. It is so, so very important to get the coverage you need today. Our Ramsey Trusted Pros will help you do that. All right, let's go to the phone lines. Tyler in Buffalo, New York is here. What's going on, Tyler?

Hi. How are we doing today? Doing good.

How can we help?

Hi. So, I'm looking into possibly starting up a home inspector's business come this winter here, and I was just curious on what the right steps would be to do that. Mhm. All right. So, uh, home

inspection, uh, why did you pick that problem or that solution? What what what drew you to that?

I guess the big part that came out of it is, um, the flexibleness. Um, because I

have a job right now that's kind of um, it's seasonal. It it pays very well when the season's on, but then winter time, you don't have u hardly anything going on. Okay. All right. And what what's the homes inspection business like in the brutal winters of Buffalo? I'm I'm guessing you Buffalo folks, I mean, you just know how to handle that kind of snow. I mean, you guys were in the news last year during the football season.

Crazy snow. Is it a normal rhythm and and there is not a big drop off in the wintertime in Buffalo as it relates to home inspection?

Nothing too crazy, you know, with that time right there. I I actually live south of Buffalo and there's a lot of new builds going on, so Okay, good. A lot of possibility for it. Um, you have a background and some expertise, some skill set that lends itself to doing that. Well, um, I did plumbing for about 5 years.

I've shadowed an electrician. I've worked with carpenters. You know, I when it comes to the nuts and bolts of it, I I got it. Trust me, you you had me at plumbing.

I mean, I was like, "Okay, you've got the skill set for that. You enjoy the work. Uh, it can be a pretty good business. I mean, you can build this thing and and to where it could replace your seasonal income.

Uh, so I'm not seeing any red flags on this. How much is it going to cost for you to get qualified to do that?

Yes. Um, the bits I've looked into, you know, you can go online and file through a course and then um that right there is

roughly probably about 2500. 2500 bucks.

Do you have the cash for that? Yes. All

right. Uh, I like that. So, no red flag

there. Um, and is the market saturated?

Is the market moderate as it relates to people out there that are your competitors? Uh, or is there hardly anybody doing it? Um, in my micro area,

there's there's two. And, um, they, you

know, honestly, the quality of the work they do is not very well. And, you know,

something I actually seen an issue when I was working in the trade still. Okay.

So, you've heard this from viable sources that these guys or gals aren't doing a good job.

Yes. And even seen it myself. Are they covered up in business or are they what's their business like? The flow of business.

Um, they seem to stay fairly steady. Um,

but at the same time, the exact grid of it, I'm I'm unsure. What's your gumption level as it relates to talking to realtors, bankers, mortgage pros? Are you a guy that'll get out and connect and shake people's hand, look them in the eye, and go, "I'm the newest home inspector on the block, and I come from the trades, and I'm telling you, my competition, they ain't so good. I'm fantastic. Give me a shot." Are you willing to do that?

Absolutely. All right, Jade, I ran him through my questions. I turned the balance of my time over to you. I I don't see I love that word.

Because this is a The reason I I asked that question, Tyler, is because this is a business where you, sir, are the product. That's right.

Jade and I are in that same business.

Jade's the product. I'm the product. So, you got to have that gumption necessary to to to put yourself out there. And the realtors that you want to work with are going to be the type who are doing high volume because they're going to be able to give you a lot of work.

And if they are high volume realtors, they know how to talk. They know how to command a room. they know how to, you know, their BS level is very low, right? So, it's like this guy, you know, but if you come in there and you're like, "Listen, we need to work together.

Here's why." I love that. So, my question that I the only question I wrote down, which I kind of feel like that's what we're into now, is how do you get clients?

Because it's not like you're trying to railroad anybody or ste, you know, you're not intentionally trying to like uh steal anybody's clients, but at the same time, you want the work. Does that make sense? So, it's like, how do you see yourself getting in there and kind of pulling the boat close to the dock and getting those clients?

See, that's that's one thing I'm kind of unsure of. I I don't know really where to start with it. I wasn't sure if it's something you getting get in with banks or, you know, you contact realtors or if it's just a matter of, you know, just talking to everybody you can to get your name out there. Okay. Well, it's the list that I ran through earlier, but um uh I would start with the your mortgage your mortgage companies in the area.

They're the ones that when a house is going for a refinance or the actual initial financing, uh, they are the ones that are getting the home inspector out.

I know when I've refied, the company I refied with, they're the one that chose the they have their guys and they got their gals. Okay. So, for certain for certain mortgage, I would check on the real realtor's side. I'm going to say I don't know. I think that's more of a mortgage play. Okay. Uh because again, the mortgage company are the ones, the banks, they're the ones that need to know uh what the house situation is. You

know, now realtors do it as well. I'm not saying realtors don't, but I'm saying realtors and mortgage companies when they do refinancing, they'll have a uh I'm sorry, I've confused the whole situation. You're talking about home inspection. I apologize. I got in my head home appraisal. Sorry. Mortgage companies are appraisers. That's right.

Okay. Home inspection is realtor. You're right. I I got my brain just got all cobwebby. That's all right, Ken. I got the broom out. You're all swept clean.

Appraisals. So, home appraisers. That's

different than the home inspector. So, realtors, realtors, realtors. And hey, listen, can we tell them, Tyler, if I were you, I'd start with the with the website ramseyolutions.com and find the find our those pros. That's it. The realtor pros right there. Start calling them and go, I called the Ramsay show.

I'm a big Ramsay listener.

and you are a trusted pro. Can we talk?

Can I help you? So, that's where I would go. Look at this guy. Come on, Kim. I had to get the cobwebs out of the way first. It's what he does. It's what he does.

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This is the Ramsay Show alongside Jake Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number is8 825 5225LE8825-55225.

Let's go to Phoenix, Arizona. Jonathan is there. Jonathan, how can we help?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure.

Um, not quite sure where to start. Uh,

to be brief, uh, I'm 24 with two kids of

my own. My fiance has two kids from a past relationship.

Uh, and I am the only one that works at

the the moment. Um, and it just seems like I'm always drowning. Uh, I come from a family that has never really been

financially stable. So, I don't even

know where to start to begin to get out of this like drowning feeling. Yeah,

man. I'm so sorry. But can I just tell you real quick before we go into this? I I sense in you a guy who wants to change his family tree. I sense in you a guy who is busting his tail and trying to do right by those little ones. And uh I wanted to encourage you because I I think you've got I think you've got a lot of character and I love the fact that you're calling and asking for help.

It's a big deal to go I need help and I I wanna I just felt like you needed to hear that. You're not a failure and uh you are going to be able to figure this out and we're going to help today. You got me? Yeah. Couple quick things here.

I'm going to turn you over to Jade. All right. So we're going to try to do as much as we can in a quick amount of time. Um number one, what are you doing and what is your income?

Uh, I work in the HVAC industry. Uh, and

my yearly income is around 60 to 80 on a

good year. Okay, that's not bad. So, we've got somewhere between 60 to 80,000 gross. And um, are all four, if I heard

you right, you've got two kids and your and your girlfriend or fiance has is she is your fiance or No. Yes, she's fiance.

Okay. I thought I heard that. Okay. She's got are you got all four kids staying with you guys all the time? Yes.

Okay. Okay. So, she's she's at home taking care of the kids. Yeah. Gotcha.

Okay. Um and what kind of debt do you have?

Uh we're in about 23,000 in a minivan.

Now, wait a second. When you say when you say we did you both sign on to that deal? Yes. Yeah, we did. All right. Uh

and it's 23,000 on a minivan. Yeah.

Okay. What other debt do you have? And then I have about I'd say 1,600 in collections and credit

cards and then she has around

say 600 to a,000 in collections and

credit cards. That's it. Yeah. You got

any money in the bank at all?

No. Um I did but we had to go through it

hit some unfortunate times. So yeah. No, it's cleared out. What do you mean by unfortunate times? Give me 20 seconds on that. Uh, I lost my job, my last job

where I it was great money, good work.

Uh, I was able to save up around four to five grand and then once I got laid off from that company, we had to use that to pay keep our bills. Was that HVAC work as well or something different? Yeah.

No, it was HVAC. Did you don't have to tell us, but did was this something you did? Yeah. Did you learn Did you learn

from it? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Um, so

what that tells me though is that you have more income potential in that industry because you were clearly working for somebody else making more. What were you making when you were with them? Uh, about 96 grand a year. So So

what would need to be true for you to get back to that?

Uh,

honestly find a different company. Okay.

But it's possible. Yes or no? Yes. Okay.

I just want to leave that there. Yeah, let's get to it. Uh I I always like to kind of ask all the questions. I'm kind of like the general doctor and then she's a specialist and so she kind of sits over there and she's like rubbing her chin. You filled out the paperwork for me, kid. Yeah, that's what I have.

Let's be honest. I'm the intake nurse.

That's not true. No, but I I I think this is doable, Jade. I do, too. I like I I like what you just said about the opportunity to make more.

And if I'm you, I'm getting on that today. Can What's the first step? Where's Where do you go about that? It's a budget.

No, I'm talking about for him to find the job. Oh, sorry. I apologize. You see where I was at?

You you had already clocked out. Well, no, because they know because they've not done it. They they have no idea where their money's coming and going. That's the issue.

Uh here's what I would say, uh Jonathan, because you're in the trades of HVAC. Um you don't have to stay at this current company for a 10. I mean, you go to the best situation that you can go to. So, I would be uh really because you're stable now.

learned your lesson from the last one.

HVAC can make really, really good money and so you're looking everywhere all the time until the next opportunity comes and the minute it shows up, walk right to it. Love that. Um, so that's homework

number one is we're looking for that. Homework number two is you do need a budget. We're going to make sure you get set up with an every dollar budget. It's the best way to budget because you're going to see all the things that you're spending money on and you're going to be able to pinpoint, okay, where's an area of concern? Where's an area I can cut back on? Um maybe there's more at our

disposal than we realize, but it's just been going out to things. I don't know, Door Dash, Instacart, whatever. So, we're going to give you the the budget. I also wanted to know, um what's your living situation? Are you renting? Do do you have a house together? Tell us about that. Uh we're renting. Okay. And what do you pay every month for rent? Uh just

under two grand, so 1980. Okay. That's a that's a squeeze. Um not going to lie.

And I know you've got the kiddos, but you know, you you need to find something that's more along the like $1,400 $1,300

area so that it's not squeezing you so much cuz you told me you make $500 to $6,000 a month. And so assuming, you

know, it's somewhere right in the middle. Yeah. 13,400 is really your max.

Um, so I'd be thinking through what that could mean because unless you see a

pathway quickly to earn more money, this

rent is going to continue to squeeze you. Um, the van, what's the van worth?

You owe 23. What's it worth? Uh, it's about 21. Okay. I'd be looking at getting out of that and into something a little less expensive. Um, take a a couple months and save up the difference so you're not upside down and get out of that van and and get it or go over to the credit union and say, "Hey, the the van is worth 23 or I owe 23. It's worth 21. Can I get a $2,000 loan and can we

add like seven or eight to it so that I can get something else?" Jonathan, listen real quick to what she just said, okay? This is doable. You bust it, go to a credit union or something, get a different loan, you know, whatever we got to do. Pay this thing off. Um because you're going to save yourself a lot of money. What's the car payment on that?

You guys don't want to know. We do want to know. I know. That's why I'm asking.

741. Too much. Uh 783 bucks a month. All

right. So Jade, I I tell him how to get rid of that car because that is a $700 raise. This is the how to. The howto is

the first place I want you to try to go to is a credit union because they're going to care about the fact that you're a human being. But wherever you end up going to get this loan, I want you to get this loan. Okay? So, what you're doing here is you have to pay $23,000 to

get clear on this, but it's only worth 21, right? And so, you need to clear that $2,000 difference. That's what you're going to get the loan for so that when it comes time to pay this off, you actually get the title, right? That's that's or the you can give the person the title who buys it. That's what we're talking about. Um Okay. But then you're without a car, right? And so the idea is don't just get the loan for 2,000. Get it for a little bit more. Maybe$7,000.

Start looking online tonight and see what can I get that'll get us from point A to point B. This is temporary. This is not forever. This might be for a year and a half until you can get, you know, later on add some more money with it and trade up.

Okay. But look for an $8,000 car and now you're in for $10,000 instead of $23,000. You see what I did there? And now instead of paying $783 a month, if you can get in with a credit union with a better interest rate, maybe you're only paying 300 a month.

You see what I'm saying? Yeah. So that's what we want to do with the car, with these credit cards and collections. Let's settle them.

Okay? And whenever you settle them, you're calling them up and saying, "Hey, I know it says I owe you 2,000 today. I can give you 700.

or leave it." That kind of thing. and you get it in writing first and they're going to settle with you. If it's already gone to collections, they will settle, but you're gonna have to be like white on rice. Like, you're gonna have to be on them calling all the time because if you dealt with Betty before and Betty didn't do it, call back and talk to Shirley.

And if Shirley won't do it, talk back. Call back and talk to Heather. Somebody's going to do it for you. But you have to do your due diligence and stay on top of this.

Yeah, Jonathan, you can do this. Uh hang on the line. We're going to get you in every dollar. Please just start plugging the numbers into this thing. It's so intuitive. It's so simple and it's a gamecher cuz you will now know where your money is going. And that is half the battle. What Jay just did for you is a huge victory to get out of that car payment and on the path to building prosperity for those kiddos. You can do this, Jonathan. We're here to help. This is the Ramsay Show.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.88255225

is the number. For our scripture today comes from Hebrews 4:16.

Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. I feel like that should be the verse for all budget meetings.

Yeah, you're probably Let us approach this budget meeting with grace and

confidence so we'll receive mercy.

That's pretty good. And our quote of the day from Mark Twain.

A man cannot be comfortable without his own approval.

Classic. The man was the man was deep.

Wow. He would have owned Twitter if they if it was a thing back then. That that's got a lot of depth to it. Good stuff there. All right. Paul is joining us now in Edmonton, Alberta. Paul, you are on

the Ramsay Show. How can we help? Thank you so much for taking my call. How are you today? We're good. How can we help you? Um, so I recently got a raise at my

job. Um, I doubled my salary. Uh, I just

need you to quickly Google um, my currency. Uh, I make 37,000 US. Okay.

Uh, a year. Um, it's not a today

purchase, but down the line, the reason I called was, is it worthy and a worthy investment to purchase some farmland and

then lease it to farmers as like a I don't want to say passive income, but like as another source of income. All right, before we answer that, I'm guessing you've done enough research uh to answer this question. So, give me

an an example of some acreage

and and how much you could lease it for to a farmer in this scenario. What kind of real revenue are we talking about?

Have you run the numbers?

Um, I just know I just only heard about like this kind of format through some of my friends like they worked with farmers in the past and then like I had another friend that leased uh their farmland to like uh farmers. So, it's like kind of been a like a short thing that kind of I got introduced to. So, I wouldn't have the numbers go. So, you get my point in asking this question before we get to the financial side of this. There's just the the good oldfashioned common sense.

And so, uh it's like somebody saying, "Should I buy a business?" Well, we want to look at your financial situation and we're going to dive into that. But, but we want to also go what's the business and does it have viability and have you done a business study? And so in this situation, this will not be hard for you, but you need to go become an expert in the numbers. In other words, um it's got to be this amount of acreage and then based on that and it's got to have this kind of soil quality and then based on that and you got to be able to buy it.

Well, you know, we're going to get to that part, but I'm just saying like even if financially you can do it, which you're going to coach him on.

smart investment even if you're in position to do so, which I don't think you are. But that that's my little quick warning. I want Jay to jump in on on your financial situation. And I'm getting in King Coleman territory here.

I don't sense that it's necessarily something you'd be passionate about. It sounds like something you just heard some folks doing. That's a good point.

And it's like, oh, maybe that can work for me. And I think that could also be a bit of a at least an I'll call it an orange flag. And can we also say real quick, there's no such thing as passive income. No. No, it doesn't exist. That's

a lie. Um yeah, for sure. So, uh, back

on to the other side, if we do, let let's say let's just pretend for for

I can't say what I was going to say.

Let's just pretend that you had vetted this out and you had some numbers, okay?

And you said, "Yeah, I've looked into this. I can make x amount of dollars." Then my next question to you would have been, "Okay, what's it cost to buy these acres of land?" And then if you would have said, "Well, Jade, it's going to cost me uh $400,000 to get the land, da da da da, because I need at least this many acres." And I would have said, "Okay, how are you going to pay for it?" And so I think that's where we get into the numbers nitty-gritty of this, which is you're making 37,000 a year.

I would never tell you to invest in 400,000 and go into debt for it. I would say the first line of your investing needs to be you investing 15% of your income and that's steady and that's like your kind of country road of investing. And then on down the road, if there's other things that you're interested like real estate or land, that sort of thing, I would say, listen, the idea is to pay cash for it. And that's really, really, really the best way to purchase um land and real estate is in cash.

So, I like that you're thinking about more ways to earn money. I like that you're kind of creative in what that could be. It's not just, I don't know, kind of the typical route, which is cool.

It was never something that I was going to put like a like be in debt for. It was always going to be something that it would be a cash transaction, but that would be like 10 years. Like it's not great. I love your home.

I don't have that money today. I don't have that money today. I love the question. It would just be some It would just be something that like Yeah.

Um, you know, given with the recent uh bump in income and then like I've been already investing on the side and whatnot. Okay, good. It's not. Yeah.

Paul, I was just telling Jade this uh during the show breaks today. I I'm I'm kicking around an idea. A friend brought me an investment opportunity.

I've had some really smart guys that have done things like this before that are my friends and I'm going take a look at this. What questions do I need to be asking? So the advice I'm giving you, I'm actually taking and I I I would never want to make any kind of investment. Yeah. That I even and what's this is what we teach by the way in mutual funds everything. We want you to sit with a smart investor pro multiple

people. uh who do you connect with?

Chemistry, do they have a heart of a teacher? Do you understand what you're doing so that you can make your decision? They're not telling you what to do. You are telling them what you'd like them to do with your money. And so this thing on farmland, my advice is just do your homework and know it inside and out. Know what the risks are. Uh know what the upside is and so that uh

when the time comes and you've got cash

and and you can do it. So really appreciate the call, young man. I I love the forward thinking. Uh, let's get in one more quick call.

Andrew is joining us in Indianapolis, Indiana. Andrew, how can we help? Hey, thanks for taking my call. You bet.

We got about three minutes, so make it fast. All right, I'll make it quick. I just wanted your guys' opinion on giving, say, friends or family financial advice. I was approached by my mother-in-law, gave her some advice.

She's kind of thinking about taking it, then the more I talk to her. Well, the key is is she approached you. My answer is don't give it unless they ask for it.

Yeah, good for you. It seems like a no it seems like a no-brainer based off what I've learned from you guys, and I absolutely appreciate that. But part of me is is going, "Well, if she does it and doesn't do it right and it doesn't work out, then she comes back to me and says, "Hey, you you told me to do this." Listen, that's our job every day, kid.

And I Yeah, but it's interesting that you say that because the advice that we give on here, if somebody does it the way we tell them to, then we're not worried about something. So, what what was the advice that you gave her?

Well, she's got a she's paid a car payment and miraculously somehow, I'm not sure how, she timed it just right, she's got a lot of equity in said car.

Um, but also has about the same amount of credit card debt. And she doesn't really drive much. And the numbers are

there to make it work to sell this car, pay off the credit card debt, buy a $4 or $5,000 car to do the minimal driving that she does, and then pile up that money to maybe buy a better car or work on her mortgage. The only way that doesn't work out is if the $4 to $5,000 car she buys is a lemon. So, this is where you as a son-in-law can get massive son-in-law points and go, "Hey, I will do the leg work or help you get a mechanic who would be willing to see said cars and don't buy any $4 to $5,000 car that the person won't let you take it to the mechanic and and you just walk her through that and guard." I just don't see how that turns out bad.

Do you? Um, no, I don't.

really don't. It's It's really up to how they work out the advice and if they take it to the letter and to the tea.

Yeah. And that's where we're struggling. She keeps sending me links for cars that are like eight or 9,000. I say you you can't afford that.

You need to lower your budget. I mean, the hard part for for where you're sitting is again, if they've asked for advice, you offer you offer the advice. And then after that, there there comes a time where you do kind of have to go, okay, now my hands are off of it. If you choose to do it, great.

If you don't, if you need help, I'm I'm here to help you.

cannot be what I call an askshole. Boy, I'm glad you slowed that down. Because an askshole, not you. An is there a person who asks the same thing over and over and over to avoid actually doing? Okay. And that's

annoying. And so if you feel like it's getting to the point where this person is being an ask hole, see you see how I

stepped in there. Then you go, okay, I've given you up to you what you do next. I like that. I think that needs to be your next little product.

I think it needs to be some type of a money bumper sticker that you sell, Jade, in your store. A t-shirt. I think a lot of people would like to wear that. I'm afraid to say it cuz I know I'll mess it up and the FCC will not be happy.

We hit that K pretty hard. We did. Hey, thanks for the call, Andrew. Thank you, Jade, for always being awesome.

Thank you, Kelly, and the team for keeping us on the air. Thank you, America. This is your show.

[Music]

[Music] Heat.

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## 118. No Matter Your Income, You Can Still Build Wealth | May 28, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:30:07 |

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life feels overwhelming, therapy can help you slow down, think clearly, and move forward. Visit betterhelp.com/ramsey to get 10% off.

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Washaw, number one bestselling [music] author. Ramsay personality is my co-host today. Paula

is in San Francisco. Hey Paula, how are you? >> Hey, I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, so my mother-in-law and husband put his name on all her assets before we got married because my husband's father passed away. Um, recently we have an issue where since my husband's name was on her car, she was sued for a car accident, which means that he was also sued. We're trying to dissolve those agreements both with her, but we're getting some push back. We can't get copies. So, we need some help getting some financial freedom from my mother-in-law.

Wow. Okay. So, you said there were agreements. What do you mean?

>> Uh, so they decided to put his name on all her assets. >> Yeah, I got that. >> The cars, the houses, the insurance. He signed all the paperwork uh to be on the mortgage, on the title, the deeds, etc.

>> Mhm. You can't add yourself to a mortgage.

>> Okay. >> So, he did not do that. Um Huh.

Okay. Okay. He helped her purchase a home and so he was uh part of that.

>> Okay. Then if it was part of the purchase, he could be on the mortgage with her. >> Okay. >> Okay. Yeah. And then they refinanced the

original home and so he's on those documents. >> Oh boy. >> So he was obviously trying to help her, right? >> Correct. >> And why did they think he needed his name on everything in order to help her?

>> She did not have a trust in place. So, she was fearful that if something happened to her, the family wouldn't keep anything.

>> The family wouldn't get anything.

>> It would go into probate, things like that. >> What's she worth? >> Of course, it goes into probate. That's But that doesn't mean the family doesn't get anything. All you need is a will.

You don't have to have a trust. >> What's her net worth?

>> Uh, do you know your mom's net worth?

>> I would not quite sure.

>> Well, give us a ballpark. Is it >> Is she a multi-millionaire? >> Yeah. >> No. No, she is not. Okay.

>> She she works for an insurance company.

>> Okay. All right. Um

and so the net result is is that they um

he was trying to do a really nice thing and she was trying to protect but they did not get good advice and so they did a whole stupid thing which is put his name on everything and that was really stupid. >> And that's and now you got sued when she had a car wreck. >> How much is she being sued for?

Uh, I believe about $50,000.

>> Oh my gosh. And she didn't have insurance. >> She didn't have adequate insurance. >> She does. It's going to go through insurance, but because my husband's name is on her vehicle, he is named in that lawsuit as well. >> Yeah, he has to be. Yeah. Okay.

>> Yeah. And now that we're married, we eventually want to buy our own home. Um, so our goal is to completely dissolve these agreements with her.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> So, the 50,000 insurance is going to pay eventually. You just don't like that his name is tied up in it. >> Yeah. She wants his name off of everything. >> So, you want to go through and take his name off of everything.

>> Yes. Yes. >> It's going to be very difficult. It's be very complicated. Um, and you're going

to need legal advice. Okay. So, each item will be different. Okay. A bank

account's very simple. He can go to the bank and have his name removed. Very easy. Okay. A mortgage is impossible. He

can't get his name off of it. So, she has to refinance her home to get a new mortgage to get his name off of it. and you'll have to probably pay the cost of the refinance because you're the one requesting to do this.

Very [clears throat] complicated. Uh the car title, she can just sign uh I mean

[snorts] he can sign an affidavit and have his name taken off of the car title. Uh but she'll have to sign all of it. Is she refusing to cooperate in this idea? >> Um she's okay to remove his name off the car title, but she does not want to refinance her homes right now, so she won't remove him from the homes. >> Yeah, that >> that's fair. I can understand why.

>> Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, if you offer to pay for the pay pay for the refinance cost and the interest rate is the same or less, it would benefit her to refinance it.

>> Okay. >> And uh but she doesn't want to refinance it because she won't have to pay for it, >> right? >> Um and

I was going to say, what is what is her current interest rate? Do you know?

>> Uh I think it was around 3%.

>> Yeah. She's not going to refinance. It's not going to work. >> Right. Right. >> Um, >> yeah. Wow, >> that's tough. >> All right. You know what I would do is just make a list of stuff that has his name on it and say, "What is the solution with each of these things?" There's not one simple, you can't sign one simple document. It does everything.

You're going to have to go to each situation and have his name removed where you can. um and uh uh until it's

beneficial for her to remove take, you

know, interest rate wise and so forth, she's not going to you're not getting off that mortgage, >> right? >> Um wow. Um and your husband and his mom are both

willing to do all of this. They just don't know how. Is that what you're saying? >> Um my mother-in-law would like to wait 5

years or so. Sometimes she goes back and forth with if that's what she truly wants to do. But the the hope is that in 5 years she will refinance so that we can go purchase our own home.

>> Mhm. Well, I mean, as far as the other property, other things go, she's willing to take his name off.

>> Yeah. Uh car title. Yes.

>> Well, I mean, there's a whole bunch of stuff. You mentioned car title, you mentioned insurance policies, you mentioned bank accounts, you mentioned Right. >> Yes. So, since he is um on both the

homes, she says that she cannot remove him from the home insurance. We did remove ourselves. We're trying to remove ourselves from her car insurance currently. >> Mhm.

>> Wow.

That's true. I mean, you don't you if you're on the mortgage, you want to be on the home insurance in case it burns, you don't get stuck with the mortgage, >> right? >> So, your husband does want to stay on that insurance. That's accurate.

>> Yeah. So, um,

okay. So, really what we did did is is

that they did they were trying to do a smart thing and they did it in a dumb way, both of them. Um, in a way that no

one would recommend if they'd gotten any estate planning advice at all. It [snorts] would not have been hard to solve this. Um, and so, but there's no

bad malice here. She's not um I mean she

didn't set out to do harm to her son and he certainly didn't set out to do harm to his mom, >> right? >> So there's no um there shouldn't be any

drama here. Uh you just got to clean you just got to go through and clean it up.

>> Uh other than the fact that you got sued, but I mean that's not her fault.

Actually, it's your husband's fault. He signed up on a car that he shouldn't have. >> I mean the two houses is going to be the pain in the neck. Yeah, that's that's going to be the hard thing is getting rid of that and you know is just watch interest rates and as interest rates come down or you know the balance on the mortgage comes down, pay off the stinking mortgage.

>> Got to believe I got to believe she's close to >> you know I don't know something like that.

get get my name off of it. >> Yep. >> And that's that happens a lot of times where there's a divorce. >> Uhhuh. and uh they didn't bother to get the name off the mortgage and then five years later the divorced husband or wife's got a name hang out over here then they'll have to go >> as a negotiation pay to pay for the refinance to get their name off.

>> Um yeah, but um yeah, this is a classic

thing of what we call street law, which is a bunch of people sitting around a campfire with an opinion about what you should do on something that have absolutely NO FREAKING IDEA what they're doing. And this guy signed up for a mess.

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Dominic is in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hi, Dominic. How are you?

>> Hello. I'm doing well. I hope you guys are. >> We are. What's up?

>> Uh, so my father, so first of all, I'm

38 years old. I've got a 19-year-old son and my father and I haven't always had a great relationship, but we we've got a better one now. And we agreed that he

would help my son buy a car. Um, we can afford to buy him the car, but he wanted to step in and help out his grandson.

And um, we didn't really have an agreement set on how much the car would be. And uh, he ended up buying him a

Dodge Challenger, [laughter] which um, it was about $62,000.

Uh, my father. >> How old is your You have a 19year-old son with a $62,000 car.

>> Yeah. >> Is that more expensive than your than your car?

>> It is. It is. I I still drive my Prius from college to [laughter] be honest.

>> Wow. >> Um, >> what does your what does your 19-year-old son make? How much does he make? Does he work? >> He actually does have his own income.

He's still living with us, but he flips furniture on um him and his sister flip furniture on Facebook Marketplace.

So, I'd say he makes between5

and $6,000 a month.

>> Profit?

>> Yes. Profit. >> Wow. >> That's after he's gone and and purchased the furniture. Okay. >> Um and bought lacquers and bought finished and painted and bought new handles for everything.

>> Okay. >> Great. And so this bothers you. It's too much. You feel like it's too much car for a 19-year-old, right?

>> Well, let me let me also make this clear. We when he turned 16, we bought him a Civic. And in October of last

year, he totaled the Civic.

Um, and he had done he had begun to go

into the car space. He had done a lot of bolt-on. Uh, and he had just finally gotten under the hood and and started to do work on his car, which is why I think he was so eager to get a more powerful car. But that also has my wife and I worried because, you know, he has just total a car which struggles to get up to 100. >> Did he total it being reckless or did he total it in truly it was truly an accident?

>> Uh, we are not sure if you if you if you if you trust him. Uh, a squirrel ran across the road. But, um, >> yeah, cuz squirrels always total civics.

>> No. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. Um, yeah. Uh, squirrel, it's

the ultimate. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Uh, [sighs and gasps] okay.

>> So, I also want to make two two things clear really quickly. So the interest on the car, so his his grandfather put down

the down payment, which I'm still not totally sure how much it was, but the interest is at 21%. And

>> so your father does not have good

judgment on financial matters.

That's being nice.

Your father is did an idiotic, stupid

deal in an effort to be a blessing to his 19-year-old grandson, but instead cursed him by putting in him him into a

car with a ridiculously high interest rate and that is way too expensive for a guy that makes $4,000 a month living in his parents' home flipping furniture.

Okay, so your dad is out of the equation. He no longer gets a vote.

Okay. Whose name is the title in?

>> Um, my my father co-signed for the car,

but it's my >> my son's car. >> Yeah. Okay. If I were to advise your 19-year-old son, it would be to sell the car as fast as he possibly can

because he's probably going to lose some money on it depending on how much of a down payment there was. But, I'm guessing there wasn't much of a down payment. This car is too expensive for

anyone that makes, you know,00 [clears throat] makes 5,000 bucks a month. >> You shouldn't be having a car that's equal to your annual income, regardless of whether it's paid for or not. It's ridiculous. It's a fabulous vehicle.

It's a fun muscle car, but that's irrelevant. Okay. Um, and he's at 21%

interest.

And you're worried about his safety. Um, I'm not as worried about his safety. I'm I'm not 100% sure to be worried about his safety. I'm 100% sure this deal

sucks.

It was really dumb. And I if I were

loving my 19-year-old grandson well or my new friend that's 19 years old, I would say, "My friend, sell this car as quickly as you can and limit the damage that it's going to do to your life. Your grandfather's sweet, but he's not smart." Mhm.

>> That's what I would tell your 19-year-old as fast as he can get rid of it. Now, he don't want a salad and he's

got >> Yeah. >> Bozo over here that can't do math whispering in his ear that this is okay.

>> Who's paying the payment? Bozo or your son?

>> U My son is paying the payment and my grandfather agreed to help him and I I

we my wife and I together make enough to absorb the cost of the payment. Oh, no.

There's no reason for you to.

>> I think that >> he bought a car he can't afford.

>> Yeah. And you're the parent and he still lives at home. So, you do get to say this is not going to work. You get to say that. >> Yeah. And it's not it's not a it's not a I'm mad at somebody thing if I'm you.

It's honey, I love you. This is bringing harm to you. And I really wouldn't even bring up the totling the car and safety thing. It's just way too expensive a car and way ridiculous interest rate.

Yeah, >> it's just it's just su it's financially stupid. >> And if you're if you've set up a a standard in your household that we don't borrow money and we don't go into debt for cars, I think that fuels that argument even more, which is I can't advise you to do. This is just not how we live our lives and this is not how we've taught you to live yours. >> Yeah.

And I I'm sorry I didn't keep my hand in the deal and keep it from happening.

Challenger at 21%.

But you're totaling your whole life now as a result of totaling your Civic. And this is just not there's just nothing smart here. >> Oh gosh.

>> But this is a stareyed guy who, you know, I don't know what's going on with Grandpa, but um he he ain't got any smarter as he got older.

We can tell that >> I'm assuming the the deposit wasn't enough to bring us back.

>> Probably not. You're probably in the hole >> from being underwater. Yeah. So, so do we have to go to my father and do >> No, I don't think your father's going to do either. >> No, I think you have to I think that's a stupid tax you guys are going to have to >> somebody's going to have to pay. Junior's going to have to pay it, but Junior doesn't have any money.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm I'm guessing you're going to lose a little money on it, but I don't know how much. He's going to lose a little money. You're not really technically in the deal, so you're not technically responsible, but I am going to say you live under my roof. If we're not playing stupid games and expect anything except stupid prizes.

>> Yeah, this is this is ludicrous.

>> Crazy. >> This is like Look up crazy in the column and you'll see a picture of this car.

>> And well, the car notes probably almost a,000 bucks a month. >> Yeah. Yeah. At least >> Wow. >> 21% on 62 grand.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Hello.

>> We or they financed it for 18 years, you know. It doesn't matter. because we want to make sure we prolong this pain as long as we possibly can. Yeah. So,

interesting thing that um Proverbs 17:18 says, "One lacking in sense cosigns for another." Um the New Contemporary English version, the CEV, says it's stupid to cosign

alone. >> Yeah, >> that's what the Bible says.

So, uh, anytime you're thinking you're being a blessing to someone by co-signing the loan for them, you're not. >> No, there's you're being stupid.

>> The whole reason you would need a co-signer is a bank looked at that person and said, "There's no way I would lend you the money. I don't think that you can pay it." >> Yeah. I mean, bank looks at a 19-year-old who flips furniture and lives in his mother's basement >> and says, "I don't think this is a worthy credit, >> so we're not going to do it.

to gig you. We're going to screw you. So car dealer, we're going to screw the 19-year-old. And car and bank, we're going to screw the 19-year-old. And grandpa says, I'll help.

>> Wow. Thinking he's being a blessing.

>> [music]

>> Heat.

Heat.

[music]

>> [music]

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There you go. Benjamin is with us in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Hi, Benjamin.

How are you?

>> Hey, doing wonderful Dave. Thanks for taking my call this afternoon. >> Certainly, sir. How can we help?

Uh, well, me and my wife are having just a mild financial disagreement and um, we're trying to put the puzzles together to see where we should invest some money or what we should do with it.

>> Cool. How long y'all been married?

>> We've been married for 10 years.

>> Awesome. How old are y'all?

>> Uh, 38 and 37.

>> Cool. Very cool. So, tell me about the disagreement.

>> Um, well, right now, um, I own a

construction company and, uh, we've been successful. Um, we've paid off all our debt. besides our mortgage and um I really haven't tried to attack my mortgage just because I am locked in at a 2.5% interest rate and um rather than

paying it off, I'm investing money in rental properties trying to make a passive income. I've invested in silver and just a few other things to where, you know, when time comes to retire, I've got a passive income coming in that's taking care of me and not too concerned about the 2.5% interest rate being I don't think we'll ever see it again. Um, we're at the point now to where I could pay the house off, but Oh, you have the money. Main point I I we do.

We have the money.

>> Uh, the balance is about 200,000 currently. >> Well, you are doing great, Benjamin.

Congratulations.

>> Thank you. I appreciate it.

>> Okay. >> And that that's our decision. She believes that we should go ahead and pay that off. and um you know me personally I believe we could purchase some more properties. >> Why does she believe you should pay it off? What's her reasoning behind that?

>> Um just stress more just knowing that we don't owe on anything. You know, there's nothing tying us down. And u my mindset is that we could invest in more properties. I could have my guys go in and fix it up. We could rent it out and the rent could pay for our mortgage and

then we've got more assets, you know, in time. >> How long ago were you broke before and you didn't have 200 and you had debt still?

>> Uh, >> five years, >> I would say within the last five years.

Yeah. We've really turned things around.

>> Yeah. And your construction business has blossomed during that five years, too.

Correct. >> It it has. We've been truly blessed.

>> Yeah. Yeah. because it's been the time it should have and that five years has been excellent for your business. Um versus not excellent for construction which has been some other times in our past, right? But right now it's making hay while the sunshines. So very cool.

Okay. Well, uh you called us and I'm

guessing you probably already knew what we were going to say.

>> Well, my wife knew what you were going to say. >> Oh, you you've been [laughter] set up, Benjamin. You've been set up. Okay.

Okay. Well, let me give you a little background as to why she set you up then and but and be nice to you. Okay.

[laughter] >> So, when I was uh 23,

my mom and dad run the real estate and construction business. And I got my real estate license when I was 18. And I love real estate investing. And when I was 23, I started buying everything in sight and anything that I could make a return on. And I had a I have a degree in real estate and finance from the University of Tennessee. And so I was all in on

this stuff. I'm 65 now, by the way. But um that I was 23. And so by the time I was 26, I had $4 million worth of real estate with a million dollar net worth.

And it was cash flowing like crazy. I mean, I made good money on it. And but I had a lot of lot of it on short-term notes because I was flipping before there was cable TV or before there was Chip and Joanna. They weren't even born.

And so um you know, this is where we were, right? And and so I became a millionaire by the time I was 26 years old doing the kind of thing you're talking about. Uh but I did it super poorly. Uh a little differently than you're describing, but I'm telling you this for a story for a reason. Um then

the [snorts] bank uh got sold and they called our 90-day notes that we had outstanding. And that began a crash that took two and a half years for us to lose everything we owned. And we were sued and foreclosed on and bankrupt by the time I was 28 with a brand new baby and a toddler. 10 years younger than you are now. And uh in that process, I started

learning uh what grandma with common

sense says about money and what the Bible says about money. And both of those say don't borrow money. But I with my finance degree was looking at it through the lens you're looking at it at the math and saying, "Well, I got a 2 and a half% mortgage. Why would I ever get rid of that? I'm sure you're trying to create this this stream of rental income." Um but what I left out in my

analysis and therefore what you're also leaving out in your analysis is risk.

Um you're uh 100% of the time that you

have debt there is risk. More debt equals more risk.

And so a way to emotionally feel that

right now in this discussion is to say, "Hey Benjamin, what if your house was paid for and you had the opport" and you didn't have $200,000 in the bank and you had the opportunity to go borrow $200,000 against your paid for home at

2.5%.

Would you go do that? And you might because you've kind of figured out two and a half you think is a great rate and it is a great rate. Um, but you also that if you look at it that way, you might also go kind of gulp.

>> You >> like your stomach kind of when I when I say that I'm going to go borrow against my paid for home. There's something in your stomach kind of moves around. You see what I'm saying?

>> No, I I see exactly what you're saying.

>> It's a physical reaction to risk. And all that I did there was what's called a sunk cost analysis. And that is a to reverse the discussion and see if it

feels any different. And if you reverse the discussion, you say a paid for house, I'm going to go borrow. It's the same thing as I'm not going to pay it off so that I can go buy rentals. It's

instead instead of borrowing on my paid for home to go buy rentals, not pay it off to go buy paid for rentals is the exact same mathematical equation. But thinking about it through a different lens makes your stomach go up in your throat instead of your brain going, "Oh, I've got two and a half%.

I'm making money on that." Um, so all of that to say, you called the show where we're always going to tell you to pay off your mortgage. Your wife set you up.

[laughter] >> Okay. 100% of the time. and I own uh

several hundred million dollars in real estate that is paid for today. I recovered way vastly recovered from my

old bankrupt days and um you know and I

love real estate. So I want you to own some rental property and I think you're in a great business with the a joining business with uh construction. But let me tell you what will happen to complete my sales pitch on this. Okay. When you

have zero debt of any kind,

your construction business will flourish even more. And here's why. There's

nothing gn knowing anywhere at the back of your skull saying, "I got to take this questionable job cuz I got to have cash flow." Instead, you look at a questionable job and go that juice ain't worth the squeeze. I'm going over and you're going to turn down crazy customers. You're going to turn down situations where you're going to go out over your skis and you're pushing too hard. Instead, you're going to you and I've experienced this in my business.

And it's it's increased my prosperity.

Those two things don't seem to be directly connected, but they are yet connected. Oh, here's another one.

Physically, people have less physical ailments when

they're not carrying any debt. It

changes the composture or the composite of your body because your anxiety level is way down. So, I'm going to sell you as hard as I can to follow your wife's uh leading there. Agreed. Agreed. Happy

wife, happy life.

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[music]

>> [music]

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Jade, I feel like I'm supposed to uh

recap um one other thing and that is that um

real estate. If you if you come on this show or if I'm having an interaction with you anywhere and you tell me you want to invest in real estate as pass to create passive income, um what I'm going to realize immediately is that you don't know what the flip you're doing >> cuz you said passive >> cuz you act like real estate creates passive income. So if you've ever been a landlord, you know that it's there's nothing passive about it.

If you've ever owned rental property, there's zero passivity involved. So,

when people say real estate creates passive income, what that tells me is they've been getting financial advice from some on TikTok.

>> That's what that tells me. Not that they've actually been in the real estate business. Okay? I've owned rental real

estate longer than most of you calling have been alive.

And that means I'm old, but it also means I'm experienced. And you know what you get from experience?

>> Wisdom. >> Scars. [laughter] >> Okay, I'll go with scars.

>> I'll call it scars. >> So, from doing stupid stuff. And uh so

I've done I've seen it all and done it all. I think with landlording, whether it's commercial properties that are retail with a pizza place or uh a

CrossFit gym or uh whether it's a

condominium and uh the guy decides he's going to use his wife as a punching bag and he gets put in jail and she has two little kids and now they can't pay their rent >> and I'm the landlord. Now, what am I supposed to do with her? Yeah. So, this you want to call that passive, that makes you dumb >> or at a minimum inexperienced. Okay. So,

you don't know what passive means.

Passive means you don't have to do any.

You want passive. Put your money in a mutual fund and they will just send you an email. Great. Great. [clears throat] >> And tell you what happened. You don't have to do anything. That that's passive. >> And so re there's nothing passive about real estate. Period. I even own a piece

of ground that has nothing on it

>> and it's still work. And the tree fell

across the neighbor's fence the other day and he called me and said, "Your tree is blocking my driveway." It's not even passive. [laughter] A freaking blank piece of ground is not even passive. >> Shouldn't have had that tree on it, Dave. >> So, I mean, it's like, and he was right.

So, we sent a guy over with a chainsaw and got the guy's driveway back, right?

But oh my god, this idea that that there's, you know, but the So, don't

listen to someone who says real estate is passive. This is someone that's selling you crap or don't know what they're doing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> It's another way to have an income stream. >> It is an income stream. It is an alternative income stream. And I love it. I've actually more a higher percentage of my net worth is in real estate paid for, >> no mortgages, than is in mutual funds.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. But I'm adept at and careful with and understand and have a management company that manages our real estate, you know, and so but it's not passive.

>> What's your uh what's your opinion on Airbnbs and things like that? That aren't just a direct >> That's not even That's not even rental property. You opened a You got in the hotel business. >> Hotel business. >> If you don't believe me, figure out how many maids you have to hire change them sheets every day when those people leave. >> Yeah. And all the all the the stuff that you don't even want to talk about that you have to clean up that was left behind at the bachelorette party. Hello.

In your condo. Yeah.

>> And they they they thought that you know what happens in Nashville stays in Nu.

You left some of it in Nashville. But it didn't stay in Nashville. So we still had to clean it up after you left. And apparently you don't drink that much, girl, cuz you left some of that. Yeah.

No. This is Yeah. This is bad. So this is what Airbnb is. It's gross. That's as

difficult as it's gonna get. >> If you might as well buy you a little Hotel 6 >> and go, [clears throat] I'm in the hotel business. At least then you're admitting it. Yeah. >> Instead of like, I'm maximizing a piece of rental real estate by making it Airbnb. No, you're not. You're running a hotel.

>> That's all you're doing. >> It's a shortstay hotel, a hostel

>> at best, right? I mean, that's that. So,

yeah. And be ready for disruption. uh

like 16 states have already passed laws

limiting and a lot of cities, New York City is coming down on it hard is shutting down the ability to operate a privately operated un uh certified hotel

called an Airbnb. They're shutting them down >> and so VBOs and Airbnbs are >> You think they're shortlived? >> Well, I mean, no, I don't I think they're going to be there. It's but you know, it's not going to be the answer to everything.

Mhm. >> Uh and you know, for you to count on that stream of income and then your municipality go, "Ah, we changed our mind." >> Yeah. >> You're out of business. >> Yeah.

>> But you paid too much for the house because you Airbnbed it in your proforma. >> Yeah. >> And you got screwed because you thought, "Oh, this is going to work." >> Famous last words, right?

>> Mhm. >> But don't act like Don't get it twisted.

This is the other end of the spectrum from passive. This is like lots of work.

>> Yeah. >> And gross stuff. Yeah. It's just Yeah.

>> I don't Yeah. There's that. Yeah.

[laughter] All right. And then Caitlyn is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Caitlyn. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave and Jade. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So, a little background story. My husband and I are both 24 and we just welcomed our first baby a couple months ago. So, we were kind of in st mode, but now we're in vet mode. Thank you.

We're on baby sub number two. My husband's an electrician. Um, but we're trying to decide if he stays at his current job, which is a private owned company. It's a little bit more stable, offers a better work life balance.

Or he can move to the electrical union, which would mean significantly higher pay and stronger retirement benefits, but potentially less stability during slow periods and layoffs and then more time away from home and overtime.

getting ahead financially.

>> Um well, I think the net net on the union with him not having steady might

not be as much of a raise as it sounds like it is.

Yeah, exactly. And that's what we're trying they're kind of trying to decide.

>> I don't think the net net is going to be much, >> right? So, in Utah, there's a bunch of data centers coming in right now. And so, they're offering a lot of incentive pay, like $10 to $15 incentive pay when working on those jobs, but the data centers aren't going to be forever. So, we're just kind of trying to decide.

>> Is it is it possible to work some of that uh data center stuff as a side hustle?

>> He could. He has to only be working at the union, but he could potentially go back to this private company um once these data centers are >> So you can't you can't be working private and union >> in Utah. You have to be >> in Utah. It's not a right to work.

>> Interesting. >> Mhm.

>> At least that's what we think. Um we kind of just been looking into it. He's currently making 38 at his current job and then he would be making 43 with not

with including incentive pay. I I I would stay where you are.

>> Okay. >> That's not enough. I think by the time you adjust for volatility, >> you're not going to make a net $5.

>> I agree.

>> Okay. Even with a pension, like we shouldn't jump with for a pension.

>> I don't I don't jump for pensions.

>> Okay. >> No, >> we trust you. So, we will do.

>> I'm going to stay where you are, but I am going to explore. There's a lot of work that needs to be done in the area is what you're telling me.

>> And he has the skill to do the work. and I'm going to explore what I'm allowed to do as side hustles legally, >> right? >> Um, and I'm not going to lie to somebody. If the union requires you to be union, then I just can't do it uh at the union sites. But there's all kinds of side hustle. So, let me give you an example, okay? If the the side hustle market is being sucked up by the unions, if the electricians

that used to do side hustles otherwise are now doing data center work with the unions, that means all the jobs they used to do are available.

>> You see what I'm saying? >> Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. >> Or or just straight up get on with the data center thing as a side gig working weekends just for a short, you know, for six months and pile on and let's get the debt cleaned up right quick. How much debt you got left?

>> We have 86,000 in my student loans and I currently work full-time, too. So, we we're in STO mode and now we're just kind of going to throw all of our savings that we have. >> You're out of STO mode cuz you're home from the having the baby, right?

>> Oh, yeah. We are We are already starting to >> That's all that's all in the rearview mirror. That's awesome. Congratulations on the baby. So, what do you make?

>> Thanks. I make 90,000 a year.

>> And he does too, right?

>> Yeah. About 80. >> Yeah. You're going to be out of debt no time. I would not make this adjustment.

You're going to lose too much quality of life. The juice isn't worth this squeeze. I'm using that a lot today.

>> I like it. Got to be worth it.

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[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Wshaw Ramsey personality is my co-host.

The phone number here is88255225.

Jeremiah is in Knoxville, Tennessee. Hi Jeremiah, how are you?

Hey Dave, doing good. How are you all doing today? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Yes sir. Well, I just have a couple questions here. A little background story. First, I was the owner and

operator of a family business of 12. The

business was over 12 years old, but I ran it for 12 years. And after CO, it just got really hard for me to get any work. So, I had to take a different avenue. uh for employment which at the

time I didn't have very wise counsel or any counsel at that and I did a lot of probably not so popular avenues to help

with bills and um different situations

like that. So my overall question would be h I'm working on the baby steps and

obviously I would be at number two um

baby step number two on getting rid of all the debt. uh what is the best

scenario or I guess to kind of expedite that so to say. I've got some unsecured

debt and I have uh a heliloc that's kind of a gray cloud over my head right now

that I'd really like to get taken care of before that draw period closes.

>> How much is the heliloc?

>> The heliloc is 94,000.

>> Did you roll all the debt into that or is there more?

>> I did. I have I do have some unsecured debt outside of that. About 13,000.

>> Okay. >> What's your first mortgage amount?

>> My first mortgage is $1,500.

>> No, no, no. The balance. >> And >> oh, the balance we're $260,000.

>> What's the house worth?

>> The house is worth around $850.

>> Okay, >> that's good. >> And what's your household income?

>> We the household income annually is 75K.

and I'm the bread winner. My wife is stay at home, homeschool mom. Uh we just

had our third child last year, so we got

a lot. >> What did you used to make in the family business?

>> I used to make um average take-home

gross pay was anywhere from 120 to 160.

>> Doing what? What kind of business was that? >> I owned a caulking and waterproofing business. So pretty much anything that you can't see on a normal building, I

was the one behind the scenes doing it.

And uh but it paid good money when the work was there. Um it just it seemed like the right thing to do at the time cuz we were we were sinking sinking fast

and needed to take something with a more secure pay. But I obviously knew when I took the job that it was going to be lower income. So, I've tried to be patient where I'm at and work the ladder. >> You can't afford the house you're in with the income you have is your problem.

>> What is your What's your mortgage every month?

>> My mortgage every month is $1,500 a month, which is pretty good considering

what the housing market is now with a 3.35% interest rate >> and we're on year 10 of that.

>> Yeah. And the 94 fin what's the what's the terms on the heliloc?

The heliloc is a 10-year draw period and we're on like year four. I believe the interest on it is around 6% probably a

little bit lower. >> Who's your bank?

>> My local bank that I deal with is First People's Bank and then >> Well, they just put that Will they just put that on a 10-year fixed?

>> Take it off of HELOC, make it a 10-year fixed fixed second mortgage >> because you got a three and a half. You're not going to I normally would tell you to refinance >> and take, you know, wrap the helock and the and the first together, but if you do that, you won't be able to afford the payment, >> right? >> And um >> that's kind of what I have been getting at anyway. Yeah.

>> On on refinancing.

>> Yeah. And and um that's going to force

the sale of the house, which might be the net result of this whole thing of you closing down the business. You may be in a house you can't afford. I don't know. Uh, you can afford the 1,500, but you can't afford $350,000 in debt. That's what's weird.

>> So, I don't know how you got a $1,500 payment even at three and a half on 260,000. >> Yeah. Did somebody put down a bunch of money? >> No. 260,000 debt. 1,500 doesn't support

that. It's $18,000 a year.

>> It's uh we had uh we live on family

property and the property was given to us. So, we put the property on collateral and the house is actually a we built the house in 2016.

So, at the time I was making really good money and um we went that route for our

future and here here we are now, let's

see, we built the house in 2016.

So, we're 10 years into it. uh 4 years

with another employer and uh yeah. >> Are you are you in the uh are you in the same business that you used to be in, but now you're an employee?

>> I am not. I am not.

>> Could you start up the old business as a side hustle?

>> I do a bunch of side work. That's another thing I was going to point out is I do just about everything I can imagine to to help pay off some of those

especially that unsecured debt that we >> was that part of the 75 you said or is that on top of >> that 75 is my salary through my employer

now. >> Okay. So tell us what you >> I would restart your old business as a side hustle.

>> Okay. >> And get because I think you can make the most money there. you know that business and you know how to make $160,000 a year doing it >> and there's plenty of work out there right now. >> Um so but but you don't I just do it as

a side hustle. You don't have to quit completely and you don't have to go all the way back and and if you want to shut it back down after you get your helock cleaned off that's fine. Um, but and

then I would start talking to the bank about putting that helock on a 15-year fixed or a 10-year fixed or whatever and

no balloons and no calls bearing down on you in the future. I don't want this thing to pop on you later.

>> Um, but that gets that gets the the problem off of you and then basically you're doing cleanup from the debt that was left over when you didn't transition out of the business fast enough.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. And it's going to take you a little while to clean that up. But if let's just say you made an extra uh 50

as side hustle >> in two years you paid off your helock.

>> True. >> That's what I want to do. >> Yeah, that's 100% possible because that just puts you back at your old income.

Yeah. If you do that. >> Yeah. And then then you got to decide long term, you know, have I what happened was you got

uh uh you know, you got sliced and diced

by the COVID situation and uh you came

in out of the cold. You wanted a place that felt uh safe in a uh rough and

tumble war zone. I wanted a place where I could come a bomb shelter I could come into. But it cost you >> cuz you're only making 75 and you used to make 10 and a4 to 160.

>> So it's cost you $50,000 a year to have

a safe place to heal.

>> But so I want to also challenge you challenge you that that doesn't need mean you need to be there 38 years.

>> Yeah. It's time to get back at it. You may you may need to step back out and maybe the side hustle is a way for you to test your footing again and see if you've got emotionally you're ready to go back out in the cold cuz you're taking a beating on what you could be making.

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>> [music]

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>> Kaylee is with us in Austin, Texas. Hi, Kaylee. How are you?

>> Good. How are you doing today? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I was just calling because I am on

step two of the baby steps of paying down my debt. Um, but I have a decision

to make. I have um I'm 24 and I haven't

gone to college yet. And I was wanting to go to college to get my business administration degree.

And even though I'm in baby steps number

two, I was calling to see your opinion on if I should wait and just keep going with the baby steps and then go to college or bite the bullet, get the take

on the student loans and go to college now. >> Well, I definitely don't like the idea of you taking on student loans. How much will will it cost for you to get the degree?

>> Uh $12,000 >> total or per semester? totally a

community college and it'll be fully online. >> Okay. How what made you to to decide on

that? How did you come about saying I want to I want to do this? What's your what's your path here?

>> Um I've always been kind of a admin

girl. Um always been the person behind the scenes doing like data administration and making coordinating

and stuff like that. And after doing a lot of research, I found that if I get a business administration degree, it's broad enough of a degree that I can go from either hospitality to um hospital

services to maybe going in white collar.

>> Mhm. >> And so I figured getting this degree would be the best way for me to move forward.

>> Okay. So, are you talking about a business administration degree? Are you talking about a two-year program? >> An associates degree?

>> Yes, sir. I am talking about an associates degree. Oh, >> okay. All right. I was making sure I understood what you're doing. Okay. Um and what do you make today?

>> I make um gross 20 uh 2400 a month.

>> 24,400 a month doing what? The same work. Administrative administrative work. >> Sadly, no. I'm actually a cook. Uh I work at a daycare. >> Okay. Cook at a daycare. How much debt do you currently have?

>> 8,771.

Okay, rounding up. >> Listen, I I I'm not mad at a $12,000

degree if you if you have researched that it's going to be the path to get you in in the spaces you want to get to.

I do like the idea of you buckling down for a few months and paying off the 8,000 first and then cash flowing this because I don't see why you can't cash flow this. How much uh let's see how

long will it take you to pay off the 8,000 making 2400?

Um, I'm actually about to hit a really good point in my snowball method. I'm about to pay one of my debt uh down and basically I'll have it done within the next 18 months in total.

>> So, if you can do if you can do 8,000 in 18 months, then can you do the 12,000 over the course of two years? I think you can. And I think you could probably do that in less time. You might be able to do the 12,000 in 18 months because the debt will be totally gone. Hey, Kaylee. Are you saying $2,400

take-home?

>> Um, so my take-home is roughly uh 2,200.

So about 1,100 a check.

>> And you're living at home?

>> I live in an apartment.

>> What are you paying for rent?

>> Um, so rent in total is uh 1,200. I

split it uh with my partner, with my boyfriend. Have you? Uh, so are you making $15 an hour?

>> 1550, sir. >> Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay. So,

um, it just feels to me like you could probably make more doing almost anything else.

Like Target is paying $20 an hour.

>> Oh, goodness.

>> Yeah. So, I think you need to be looking to up your income and pick up and pick

up some side hustles. Both. Uh, I don't I think your job sucks. Your your current job, uh, it doesn't pay much.

And I I'm very impressed >> that you've put together a sustainable life with $2,200 take-home pay in

Austin, Texas. You are an impressive young woman. That is very responsible.

You've been very careful. You've been extremely frugal. You are very, you

know, and you're thinking into the future at the same time. You're you're an impressive young woman. So, I I I want you I think you're worth a lot more doing some other things in the meantime while you're getting this degree than they're paying you to cook at the daycare.

>> Okay. >> So, let's go let's go job hunting uh in

your off time and pick up two things.

One is a better day job and two is uh an

even better side hustle that pays$25 or $30 doing something. I don't care what.

I think you could babysit for neighborhood kids and make $25 an hour.

$25 an hour if you could find a nanny job, you know, um and you know, anything

that these days in freaking Austin, Texas. So, uh it's not exactly a poor

market of some kind. So, uh yeah, I I um

yeah, I want you to place more economic value on your hours than you have so far

because I can tell that you're worth it.

Um, and so, uh, what I'm saying is I

think between those two things, you probably are going to double your income. >> Yeah. And then you're out of this >> that clears that debt really fast and puts $12,000 in your pocket to get your BA degree real fast. And then you're doing all of this in 12 14 months, you know, and you're rolling right along.

And that's the PL path I would want to be on if I'm you.

>> I got a feeling you're going to be fine.

You're going to be fine. You're going to find your way through this.

you know, but the question is just what's the most efficient method for you to get through this because you're you're a survivor and you're a planner and a thinker. So, wow, very impressive.

Cool. Hey, thanks for calling. Andrews in Norfol, Virginia. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> Hi, Mr. Ramsey. I am doing fine. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my question for you today is, how do I save for retirement when I have a low income? Why do you have a low income?

>> So, currently I am uh working for a

church. I'm on pastoral staff and my

income that I get to take home every month is low because they give me a lot of benefits when it comes to housing, uh

phone, gas, paying for my daily

>> What is your take home? What do you make?

>> I'm taking home about 2,000 a month.

>> And what is your position with the church?

I would be their assistant or youth

pastor. >> Okay. All right. We work with about

50,000 churches in the last 10 years.

And uh the numbers that we have say that somewhere around 80% of the pastors in America are bivocational.

>> Got have to be. >> That means they have another job.

>> Yes sir. Yes sir. >> How how old are you? >> I just graduated from I'm 24 years old.

I mean, this is very similar to the last call in that way. You've got to be able to you've got to be able to sustain a life, and I don't think you can on $2,000 a month, even if you lived at home, even if you, you know, had a great benefit of, you know, whatever it is that they're offering you. >> Are they furnishing housing?

>> Yes, sir. I get about a $1,500 a month

uh housing allowance. >> Yeah. Okay. In addition, currently have a >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. In addition.

>> All right. Well, so here's the thing.

Um, >> so you have a $3500 a month income

[clears throat] >> but I'm not able to touch that housing

uh for personal funds. Yes, sir.

>> I know. I know how it works. And so the

um yeah, you'll get into all kinds of tax issues if you do and so will the church. So we don't want to do that. But bottom line is is you're make it's as if you have a $1,500 house payment and you make $3,500. How can I get ahead? You can. You can. And until your income comes up. But the way you ask the question, it's as if you're going to have this exact income when you're 54,

>> right? >> And therefore, we can't save for retirement. I mean, in the meantime, you may have to work a side hustle. That would vocational pastor would not be that unusual. Um and um so the pastor

that led me to the Lord when he was starting his church had a bread route and you know later on he was the pastor of a huge church and obviously was full-time at that point. But >> [music] >> um that's what I want for your future is God's call on your life. In the meantime you may have a bread route and um but you've got to have a long-term game plan that says I'm not going to have a low income the rest of my life.

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Might not be in all states. All >> righty. Today's question comes from Scott in Oklahoma. He says, "My 2003

Toyota has 226,000 m on it, and I

recently discovered it needs a replacement suspension system and an oil

leak repair. The lowest quote I've gotten is $8,500 to fix all of the issues. The car is paid off, but I already have put $10,000 into it over the past 5 years. I make 50,000 per year and don't have any debt. I have the money to fix the car, but it would deplete my emergency fund. Should I get this old car fixed or should I put that money towards a newer car? I feel like this is a really simple one. I got to believe that Toyota is probably not worth any more than $2,000.

So, for that reason, I would invest in a

new car for you. Um, >> if you're able to drive it a little while longer, I don't know if you can. I'd maybe try to save up as much as I can to put with the 8,500 so that you're not fully depleting that emergency fund.

But it is time for a new vehicle >> and you're paying cash. This is not your down payment. >> Yes. >> So you're going to buy a 6 or $7,000 car

which is going to upgrade you about 5x.

[laughter] >> Yeah. >> So yeah. Yeah. You're you're in good shape to pay cash for a sizable upgrade >> and um and then replenish your emergency fund as fast as you can instead of doing the repairs.

>> But >> so the for Go ahead. >> What should have been happening just to kind of go back in time. Scott, you know, you drive a 2003 Toyota with almost 250,000 m on it. You should have been putting money aside to upgrade this car over time, not just an emergency fund.

Because that's the part I feel like people forget about the Ramsay plan is I love that he has a paid for vehicle.

>> Yeah. That's assuming he hadn't spent the last 24 months getting out of debt and just now got to this point. >> That's That's also true. That's also >> he just got to this point, then that's different. But if he's been going along at this point and not saving for a car, then you're exactly right. Yeah.

>> So, uh here's a good formula for you guys. >> Okay. >> What is the car worth salvage today? And

so, you can sell this car in with an oil leak cuz it's going to cuz 2003 with

226,000 mi, it's going to have an oil leak. That's what you sell this car with. It's an oil leak. Okay. And it's not going to have a a wonderful suspension cuz it's got 200,000 miles on it. Hellact. So that that you know that makes this a whatever a 1500 $2,000 car.

Okay. >> And so you sell it for that.

>> If you did the repair, does it add the

value back? Okay. Equal to the repair.

So, how the for how the formula works on that is let's say that this is a $7,000

car if it's fixed,

but you could sell it for two.

>> Well, 2 + 8 is 10. So, you would still

not fix this car.

>> It's overpriced >> because you're going to have more in the car. What what you can sell it for plus the repair is going to be more than the car is worth after the repair. And if that's the case, that tells you it's that this is a throwaway car and you go buy you another throwaway car if you have to. In this case, he's got the money to move up quite a bit. Yeah.

>> And move into a seven or an $8,000 car.

If he sells this for two, >> put six in. He's still got some couple grand in his emergency fund to start rebuilding. Right. And that that's the kind of thing you're going to do there. And then have a plan like Jade was saying to move up again in two years.

>> They're right. cuz the $8,000 car is only going to last you. >> Start paying yourself $500 a month for two years, that's another $12,000.

>> Mhm. >> And you put that with the car that you bought for $7,000. The good news about a $7,000 car, it's not going to go down a lot. >> No. >> Two years from now, you sell it for six if you bought it. Right. Right. And um Yeah. And and now we've got an $18,000

car. Yeah. >> That we paid cash for. >> That's the that starts to make a lot of sense making 50 grand. It does. Well, at any rate, really, because I think that of all the things we teach, the cash car is the most elusive of the [laughter] of

the principles. I think people who are driving cars with car notes, they're driving a, you know, 2026, 2025 vehicle,

they hear you and I say things like, you know, the car payments keeping the middle class broke and they think, well, what am I supposed to do? Just hand over $30,000 and >> No, you're supposed to hand over $4,000 and pay yourself $1,200 a month. Yes.

>> Instead of paying Bank of America, screw me, $1,200 a month.

>> Exactly. That's what it looks like though to stair step up and >> Yeah. You pay If you pay yourself a car payment >> for 10 months, that's a lot. What a lot of people have $1,000 car payment. Yes.

>> That's $10,000 freaking dollars in 10 months. >> You know, how much patience do you have?

>> I mean, you can do a lot of bad transportation for 10 months and get by with it. >> That's right. >> I mean, you could drive the hoopty of hoopties for 10 months. a thousand dollar car, you know, it's predominant color is bondo. Yeah. You know, you can >> a two-car family can be a onecar family for 10 months. >> Well, do a lot. You know, we had a guy working here at one point that um you

know, their their second car was a car he bought at salvage that was perfect

condition, engine and drive and transmission. Interior was perfect condition, but it had been in a hail stom. >> Oh. >> So, it looked like it had acne.

>> Yeah. It was really It was really potar all over. It was the ugliest, funniest looking car because it had had the snot beat out of it. >> And what does he care? >> And it looked like somebody walked and hit it with a hammer all over. Right.

And uh but it worked perfect and the interior was perfect. The technology was current, but it was a salvage car completely. Yeah. And he said, "For for right now, instead of having a car payment, I paid $2,000 for what would have been a $15,000 car, >> but it's got looked like somebody hit it with a hammer all over." It was it was we really made fun of the guy, but but it was uh but he was classic Ramsay guy, right?

And and he did that for a year and paid himself a car payment and then went and bought a regular car. >> That's right.

>> A great that that's a great story.

Exactly. I love that. >> I come from a generation where we drove cars that were bad and we kept them so long that we named them. >> I was going to say it's got to have a name. >> It's got to have a name. The blue goose.

Right. [laughter] Yeah. The brown shoe.

>> That's so funny. >> The brown like the old woman in the shoe. >> Yeah. We had a we had a station wagon named the brown shoe. >> Wow. >> It was seriously ugly. >> It's got to have special what I call special features. >> Yeah. >> Which are >> the windows that don't go down properly.

Yeah. The door that won't lock. All that stuff. Yeah. >> The tape deck that eats the tape or eats the CD. Nobody even uses tapes and CDs anymore. But >> yeah. See now now you're getting old.

That's what's happening. Right. >> Well, your car is so old it [laughter] has CDs in it. >> That's right. Yeah, it's a whole different kind of car play. >> Yes. Yes. >> Hey, all all kidding aside, if you will drive like no one else later, you can drive like no one else. So, uh Jade and I don't drive Hoopties.

I drive whatever I want to drive these days. And um I can write a check and do

it because I drove crap for a while so

that I would never have debt again. And so it's just it's a it's not like we're saying drive a p piece of crap car that your whole life. >> Right. Right. >> But for a short period of time, a year,

two years, while you get out of debt, while you save up to avoid debt, uh on the next purchase, you know, you drive something that looks like a ballpeen hammer hit it all over. You drive something that's named the Grey Goose. You drive something the brown shoe. I don't care what you name it.

Uh but get, you know, it's the pitiful. and take pictures of it. So when you're old, you can tell your grandkids that are trust fund babies because you're a multi-gazillionaire. Back in the day, grandma and I drove that car [laughter] and that's why you little brats have money.

So you got to have story to tell, right? You got you really got to have a way to do this. So >> I had a a 1980 My first car was a handme-down from my sister.

forward. It couldn't go in reverse. So, you have to choose your parking >> spot carefully, >> which means you park way out in the parking lot sometimes >> all the time >> cuz you have to pull forward, right? Yes.

Oh my god, that's so >> terrible. It had to be warmed up. Like the transmission had to be warmed up for quite a while before it would even think about going in reverse. >> We need to do a show where we ask everybody their worst car they've ever owned.

[laughter] Yeah. So, my wife my wife's first car when we got married was a Pinto. The ones that were blowing up. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. The Pinto and the Vega. and the Gremlin have been named the worst cars of the 70s.

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>> [music]

[music]

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Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Connor is in Riverside. Hey Connor, how are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I graduated from college last June and I got a job u making 88,000 per year. I'm still living with my parents and on my current budget I can save a h 100,000 by the end of next year. And I want to know if I should if I should move out at this point or if I should wait till I can save more to put a bigger down payment on a house.

>> Well, I was going to ask what's what the goal the specific goal is and it's to put a down payment on a house. How much do you need? Like what's the monetary goal?

>> Well, in California, a decent house is around 700,000.

Um there's some that are less worse

neighborhoods. Um, so I try to buy on a

budget to buy a house around 700,000.

And I I'm on track if I keep doing what I'm doing. Um, I can save 100,000 by the end of next year. >> Mhm. >> And yeah, the goal is to buy a house and to do it without having to um take on a

huge mortgage and to keep the payment underneath like um 30% of my take-home

pay. >> What are you doing for a living?

>> I do supply chain analytics.

You got a logistics degree?

>> Yeah, I have a bachelor's degree in business majoring in supply chain.

>> And you're [snorts] only making 88 grand.

>> Yeah. Well, I'm only one year one year in. >> Okay. >> And I'm trying to make uh more money.

I'm going to go um for a master's degree. That's going to cost. >> You don't have to have a master's degree to make more money with a logistics degree. >> You're going to be just fine. >> I'm trying to do free. >> Yeah. You're you're sitting on $125,000 salary any minute. Um, wow. Uh,

>> what >> good degree choice? Let me start there.

Yeah. >> Yeah. What do you see yourself earning a year from now, which is the time that you want to live at your mom's house?

>> Do you see yourself to 125?

>> 125 at least. I want to make more.

Trying to make more. >> Yeah. Okay. So, here's the tradeoff.

the way you have analyzed this and it comes from the way your brain works which is awesome by the way. Um I'm thrilled with the way you're looking at things is that there is no downside to

living there and the upside is I'm

stacking cash >> because you get along with your parents obviously or you wouldn't even be asking this. >> You don't have a strained situation there. Uh it's comfortable. Um, and so

it it it appears to be a no-brainer to stay here and live here for free and stack cash. The unintended consequence

is that you haven't started your adulthood completely as long as your mommy is in the house.

>> Yes. And um when one of my children came home from college and their apartment wasn't their new place to set up house wasn't ready yet, they stayed with us for about 3 months, which was just fine cuz we love them and they were we get along and there was no issue. And uh but I will tell you that as soon as that child moved out and and and in paid their own

bills and bought their own milk and had their own electric bill, it changed

their posture. It changed the way they walked, >> more confident, >> the swagger, the everything. Um

and um

yeah it and not to mention for some

ladies uh it would change your eligibility as a

date. >> Come on Dave >> whether you live at your mommies or not.

>> Yeah I I I got to say I think there's two three I'll say three monetary things

here that might be more important than the money. >> That that's true. But even even the money, I don't think that your math is quite right because a $700,000 a

$700,000 house that you've put $100,000 on is not going to get you where you need it to be, even making $125.

>> True. >> You're going to be well above. I mean, I'm just plugging the numbers in on our mortgage calculator, and I just I think you need to rethink your math on that.

That being said, uh I don't think

there's a rush. You're 22, which means you'll be 23 years old. You don't need a $700,000 house at 23 years old.

>> Yeah. >> In your first year of working, right?

Like let's >> or second year. >> Yeah. Let's create some stability. Let's make sure that this is really the field we want to be in. Let's make sure this is the area we want to be in. Give yourself some some freedom by just renting. Get an apartment. I love that for you. >> It's not horrible. Um,

yeah. If I woke up in your shoes knowing what I know about money and life, I

would move out. Even though on the surface the economics don't look that favorable when you do that. Then I would

also value your I I think you're worth

more than you're being paid probably in the marketplace right now. The market job market's a little slow right now. It's sluggish. But um and then the other

thing that comes to mind um that that

you may or may not want to consider is that you might be able to make $125,000

in Kansas City.

>> Oh, that's a good point. Yeah.

>> Which would cost you half as much to live as Riverside, California.

>> That's true. >> And the only reason you're there today, or at least one of the reasons you're there today, is because you grew up there. >> Yeah. Uh, and I'm not suggesting you have to move to be successful, but

there's something about when you move out that that option starts to be there

that's not emotionally setting itself in your brain when you're staying at home.

>> Yeah, I agree with that. >> And so I I want you to go out and have a life and let's just see what how what let's live the grand adventure.

>> And then you're also not comparing your current life to your parents' life who has spent years getting there. Yeah.

They've been they've been trying to get Yeah, you can't >> you don't need a a $700,000. I mean, $700,000 is not a fancy house in Riverside. >> No, it's not. But I'm just saying it's still a lot of money no matter how you slice it. It's a lot of money.

>> It's a lot of math and whether regardless of what it buys.

>> Uhhuh. >> So, um Yeah. Wow.

>> Yeah. I Now, if he had told me he had $100,000 of of debt and he could live at

home and pay it off in one year, I would probably change my mind on that. I would probably go, hey, if you can do it and you can knock it out and there's a clear timeline and there's a clear amount, I'd probably be fine with that. He is going to sacrifice some of the things that you said. >> Yeah. I'm I'm not sure

that I have adequately

uh thought through and quantified what

living on your own is worth.

>> Well, it's at >> it costs more, but I think it's worth more than it costs. And I can't I can't

put actual dollars to that off the top of my head like I can some things to justify my position. So my position might be weak. >> There's the a there's got to be you got to consider your age range cuz I think the older you are the more it the more it hits. You know, you can't be 33 living at mom's house. >> That Yeah. 19 is a little I can give you a little break there. >> I'm like 21. >> Hey, he graduated from college at 19.

>> Yeah, >> that's like two years early. Three years early. He's a gen a little bit of a super genius. >> Yeah, we got some Savant stuff going on here. >> Yeah, that's interesting. [snorts]

I'm treating him like he's 22.

>> Huh. That's a good point, too.

Interesting. Interesting. This is a good discussion. Connor, you're you're a sharp dude. You're going to be okay. Uh you don't have to buy a house in one year. Um and there are benefits to

moving out that you haven't considered.

And that's a summary of what we have yked about and and [laughter] gone around the barn for the last few minutes. But but it's good. It's I appreciate you letting us use you to have the discussion for America. Um because there is a uh the old movie failure to launch. There is a problem in America.

U particularly disturbing among males

that that [laughter] that are not leaving home. Now you're not the 33 the 33y old living at home is a problem. I I you know what, Dave? I actually do think it's both. I think it's men and women, but I do think that it is more frowned upon, and I'm not saying right or wrong, but I feel like I'm a sexist boomer.

>> We get more of the ick when we see a guy living at home. >> And you're a sexist, whatever. If you're not a boomer, if you just said that. Yeah. I get ick with a guy being at home. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But it is. It is. But still, I mean, I you know, go be like [music] a grown-up.

>> It's okay to be broke and be on your own and be single and make your way have dignity and Yeah. That's part of life.

But you're not you're not 33, you're 19.

So if you want to hang out one more year, we're not going to be mad at you.

>> It's true.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Renee is

in Los Angeles. Hi Renee. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Al. Um I was hoping you could help with a disagreement me and my husband are having. Um, so we'd like I'd like to pay off debt. Uh, we have about 16,000 in consumer debt and we make about 11,000 a

month. Um, my husband would like to pull out from our uh what is it? Stocks. Um,

pull all out all of our stocks to pay off the debt. Whereas I'm on the side of I think we can make a lifestyle change and pay it off in three months. Uh, right now we have one income. uh he is able to work and he can bring in an additional 7,000 a month and we should be able to pay this off even faster.

>> Why isn't he working now?

>> Um we just kind of have been living a a

cushy life. Very very luxury. There's really no particular [clears throat] reason. >> How cushy a life are you living in California on 11,000?

>> Uh it's it just happens to work for us.

Um the rent's pretty low and uh a lot of our expenses we really don't have any car payments or anything else.

>> Okay. That that aside, I just want to ask, does that bother you at all? I know that that's not pertinent to the question, but does does that bother you?

>> Uh only up until recently, but for the most part, I was pretty content with it. Everything was getting done at the house, so I had no complaints.

>> Okay. So, how much stocks, single stocks, do you have that you could sell?

What are they worth? >> Not a ton. Uh only 28,000.

>> Okay. But that's enough to clear the debt and still >> That would be enough to clear the debt. Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So here Yeah. Here's the answer interesting to me. I think you're both right.

>> I think you need to adjust your freaking lifestyle. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> And I think you need to cash out these stocks and pay off your debt.

>> He needs to work regardless.

>> The credit cards are the 16,000, right?

>> Correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. So that's um financial laziness.

You make enough money to not have run this debt up. You just weren't paying attention and you wrecked the car.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, yeah. So, have you cut up the credit cards?

>> Yes. Yes. This is actually old debt. So, we've paid down about 30,000.

>> Oh, good. Okay. That's good. All right.

[snorts] >> So, yeah. I number one, we're not going to tell you to have single stocks. We're going to have that liquidated. Put that in the emergency fund or put it towards your house or whatever, >> wherever you are on the baby steps or put it towards this debt. Put it on this debt if you want. But then number two, we need to be on an every dollar budget where you've adjusted lifestyle and the two of you are um not uh you know,

you're not living beyond you. You've been doing that though because you've reduced debt. So you're already doing that. So you you feel like you you just want to stay on the plan. I'm I'm now catching up. I'm I'm recycling here.

>> I It just sounds I think what's going on

is good. I think you've it sounds like you've tightened up in order to pay the debt down to what it is now. Is that right?

>> Correct. Yes. >> Yes. >> Tightened up.

>> My only thing is I'm holding on to the stocks if it's a a private stock that I have in a previous company. >> Here's the thing. >> I do believe it's going to be like a high potential. >> Even if you didn't have the debt, I would give you the same advice.

I'd say I'd rather you sell that stock and I'd rather you let's pretend you were on baby step four and you could invest in mutual funds. I'd still take that money and diversify it in that way. So, the debt really has nothing to do uh specifically with that advice. It's just at this point, this is money that you have access to that you can pull out and there really wouldn't be a penalty on it.

It's not retirement money or anything like that. So, for that case, I would take it out. I would put uh 16,000 towards the debt. The other 12,000 to Dave's point, you can throw that in a high yield savings account, have an emergency fund.

Now, we're setting ourselves up to really be able to invest the proper way if we do that. Um >> yeah, the the stock.

guy offer me a position in a private company the other day that I could have bought controlling interest in in a private in a private situation like that. >> And when you're I I didn't take it. Um and the reason is that typically a situation like that is all or nothing.

Meaning this stock's going to tank and it's going to be worth very very little and it's going to be a problem or it's going to go to the moon and it's going to be the smartest thing you ever did.

>> [snorts] >> It's never in between. It's not a predictable environment. It's a highrisisk investment. But the thing is, so if you can get out of it, if you can get it out, I didn't do it.

>> I'm saying, but if anybody could be in a position to just take a fun, no problem. >> I'm not blinked. But the Yeah, but the point is the point is she doesn't need to be doing that. Yeah.

And so you're only looking at the upside and you're emotionally involved because it was the last company you worked in >> and you you think those guys are smart and they may be smart and it might go to the moon. If it doesn't, it's going to go to zero and it if you didn't if you had $28,000 in the middle of your kitchen table right now, would you go buy that stock or would you pay down the debt? I'd pay down the debt >> 100%. >> And I'd cash out the rest of the stock and I'd put it in a stable investment that was much more predictable.

So I don't know if you're going to do any of that, but that's what we would tell you to do. I'd cash out the 28. I would continue the adjustment on the lifestyle. You're both right.

>> Yeah. And a husband needs to do something. Now, don't get me wrong. I love when people have worked to create flexibility in their lives.

I think that's great. But I think he's going to need a sense of direction and purpose, and that's what he needs.

>> Jenna is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Jenna.

How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. Hey. So, uh, my husband and I have

about $80,000 of non-mortgage debt that we're working through. We're on baby step number two. And, um, my husband runs a landscaping business. And so, our tax accountant has told us to save 15%

of his gross revenue and throw it in some sort of savings account that we don't touch just for tax purposes at the end of the year to cover any unexpected tax burden we might not be prepared for.

But I have about $9,000 in that account right now. And I'm just wondering if I should be using that to clear any of our debt instead of just holding on to it for taxes. >> You hold on to it for taxes.

>> You've That money's already spent. It's got the IRS's name on it.

>> And I probably would have done 20% to be honest with you. >> We recommend 25% of your net profits,

not 15% of your gross. You may be saving too much for taxes. We don't know that yet. But don't screw around with the IRS.

>> Got it. >> Yeah. keep your t keep your tax money um

sacred. It's not even there emotionally.

Now, you may want to adjust the formula

after you've done a year or two of this, but you do need to be setting aside and being be paying quarterly estimates. And they're usually going to approach uh about a 10% tax rate on your net profits

plus 15% of self-employ self-employment

tax because you you know, if you're if you're an employee, you pay 7.65, but if you're self-employed, you pay both sides, the employee and the employer. So you pay 156 157. So um you know so

you've got a a 25% hit there of your net

profits probably is going to be pretty accurate for your quarterly estimates and then your total tax bill. Don't mess around with that money. Now if you're oversaving and you can prove that mathematically.

If you've saved $4,000 more than you need and you can prove that mathematically, then sure, take that money and throw it at the debt. But that money that please, you don't mess around with it. Your accountant really gave you great advice to make you start withholding on yourself >> cuz it's one of the small business people get hit in the head like this the most of anything I see. They don't they don't do their quarterlys and then the IRS comes up and smacks them.

>> [music]

>> Heat. Hey, Heat.

[music]

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>> [music]

>> time is running out to enter the Ramsey

Cash giveaway. You can enter anytime between now and May 31 to increase your chances of winning the $500 weekly prize

and the $10,000 grand prize. Obviously, no purchase necessary. No salesman will call. Be sure to check out our sale though while you're on the site. Right now you can kick off your summer with books and assessments for only $12 for hardback books. Wow.

Yeah. I just jumped online and bought a um a friend of mine has a new fiction book coming out and I just jumped online and bought it. >> Uh-huh. Oh, your Navy Seal.

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>> I'm sure it was not. >> It was a lot more than $12.

Ramseyolutions.com/giveaway.

Uh hit that right now and you can enter.

And you can also check out the $12 books. [laughter] It's a good deal. All right, Jean is with us in Chattanooga.

Hi, Jean. How are you?

>> I'm fine. Thank you so much for your ministry. >> Thank you. How can we help? >> Uh, someone uh used my stolen ID

electronically to open a checking account in another bank and stole funds from one of the accounts that I have with a wealth management company where I have retirement and investments.

>> Wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I'm sorry. They opened a checking account at another bank. How were they able to steal funds from your wealth management company? >> They used uh the checking account electronically to go into the wealth management company. And >> so they had all your information to do this. >> They evidently did. And and I never have managed any of those accounts by phone or direct electronically. I've always done by phone or direct mail. So why is your wealth management company not liable?

>> Uh that's my question. Are they not liable because this loss I sustained was not associated with you know market value valuables but their >> it was they got hacked.

>> Yeah. Their their site got hacked by an identity thief. I think that's on them.

>> Okay. >> I'm not sure. I'm not an attorney, but that's what it sounds like from a common sense perspective. I >> How much money did you lose?

>> 45,500.

>> How old are you?

>> I'm 84. >> How much money was in the account total?

>> Oh goodness. I would have to look that up, but I don't remember.

>> A lot.

>> Um, I think it was about [clears throat] 100. Let me see. >> Why did they only get 45? There was more in there. >> I don't know. I have 169,790

in there. >> So, why did they not get it all?

>> I don't have a clue. Maybe they thought, you know, they could get some more.

>> So, you called But you called your wealth management company. What did they say?

>> They they were um I would never have known about it if they hadn't sent me a letter asking them if I had changed my email and my bank account. And of course, right away then they tried to reverse the the transaction and and by

then of course the money was gone. So >> So but they is did you leave the rest of your money there?

>> Well, right now I haven't changed anything, but I intend to.

>> I just don't know whether whether I should change my um my management

company before they refund my money or whether I need this. Oh, you need to you need to make sure I'm going to have a discussion with them on the phone as soon as you hang up with us >> that makes sure that the remaining money is safe. >> Uhhuh. >> Yeah. >> That's the first thing we got to make sure that's safe. And then the second thing is uh when are you guys going to refund me the money that you lost because your account that I have with you was hacked?

>> Correct. >> I'm gonna ask them to refund this. I don't know that that's going to work. I because I'm not an attorney. Okay. Um, but I think that they're going to be liable for that. Um, because their account got [clears throat] hacked. I mean, so let's pretend you had a savings account at a bank >> and a thief got into the savings account on the bank and stole the money.

>> Mhm. >> It's the same thing.

>> Yeah. >> The bank would be the bank would be liable. So, I'm pretty sure this wealth management company is liable for this.

No, it's on both and it's on there's [clears throat] issues on both ends because if they were able to set up another bank account with your information, then if they were a able to use that to >> uh connect the two banks, they've got a lot of your information.

>> Jean, do you know the person that did this? >> No, I don't know who it was.

>> Okay. >> Then you've got a lot of information on you. >> They do. I know.

>> Okay. And and let me tell you what I've done. I have subscribed to Xander Insurance. >> Good. Good. Are they helping you, the ID theft people? >> Oh, well. Uh, no. Xander is uh It was

after the fact. >> I know. But did they offer to help anyway?

>> They just I don't know if they would or not. I didn't ask them. >> Yeah, I I'm going to ask them to help you. Okay. >> All right. >> As a favor to me. They're friends of mine. And um I my 84 year old friend

Jean in Chattanooga needs some help and I'm going to ask them to help you even though uh you bought the insurance afterwards. Okay. So I'm going to put you on hold and the gang in the booth is going to pick up and connect you with Jeff Sander who's a friend of mine and they're going to help you walk through this and uh make sure your ident

identity is secured first and foremost.

And then secondly, um, if you need some

help, we'll hook you up with one of our Ramsey coaches, Ramsey financial coaches as a gift also, no charge, and see if

they can help you navigate with this wealth management company. Um, because

uh, they they need to be offering me my

money back really fast if they want to keep me as a customer, if I'm in your shoes.

>> Definitely. >> Okay. So, um, >> and I tried to, you know, I tried to get legal advice here and I went to the bar association and they gave me a couple names and I queried them, but they didn't even respond. So, I guess I I'm just peanuts, you know, to them.

>> Well, the $45,000 is peanuts, but you're

not peanuts. >> That's right. >> Okay. You're you're okay. U, you're going to be all right. But what we have to stop this from happening anymore, and we have to apply for and get the refund.

And I think between our Ramsey coaches and Xander, which is going to cost you nothing. We're going to take care of all of it. Um, we're going to make sure you're okay, but you need to get on the phone today and make sure the rest of your accounts are secure with those people in the meantime while you decide what's going to happen. So, you hang on and our gang will pick up and we'll put our arms around you and see if we can help you, kiddo.

>> That's terrible.

>> That's kind of scary.

>> Yeah, that is. That they got all of her stuff. I mean, they not only knew enough

to open an account, but they knew she had the other account and how to access it. >> That's very scary. >> And these goobs release this money to a

fresh email and fresh address that they

did not already have on file >> cuz that means they went in and changed.

>> Cyber security at a minimum is horrible at this company. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> She should have named if she's got the story straight. If that's what's going on. Yeah, >> like drop the name of that brokerage so we can all know. >> We'll wait and see. Make sure make sure what they do. But yeah, it's uh that's

>> uh >> it's scary. >> Yeah.

So, when you have a uh a brokerage

company like that, like our Smartlist Mister Pros as an example, um you you

build clients over time.

>> And in [clears throat] that world, you call it your book of business. And how much do you have aumum assets under management? And so a big,

you know, the somebody's been working for 25 or whatever years will have half

a billion to a billion, 500 million to a billion dollars in assets under management. And if one of those clients

had $200,000 out of your half a billion

you're managing and was 84 years old, this would be her. That's the situation she would normally be in.

>> And uh uh but the way you get a book of

business that size is you take care of people. >> Yeah. >> 84 year old widows would be at the top of your list. >> I would you would think so.

>> Hello. And so that's

the um the proper way to run that book

of business. The book of business grows when you love the people in the book.

Well, >> what's curious is they only took 45,000

169. That makes that sounds nefarious to me. That's >> I'm still afraid a relative of hers is doing this. >> I agree with that, Dave.

>> Ouch.

>> [music]

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[music]

[music]

[music] >> Renee is with us in Charlotte. Hi Renee.

How are you?

I'm great. Thank you for taking the call. I love the work you do. >> Thank you. How can we help?

>> My question is regarding how much I

should pressure my teenage daughter to apply for scholarships, college scholarships. >> Why wouldn't you?

>> Well, we I I should reframe the question. I have been and it's not working and I don't know if I should start punishing her. Oh.

>> [laughter] >> uh taking away privileges if she if she doesn't um put forth some effort.

>> Does she work? Does she have has she ever had a job?

>> She does have a part-time job and she is um she's a she just finished her junior year of early college. So, she has done

very well and she will graduate high school with an associates degree and she only needs two years to get her undergrad and

she's under the impression that she can start applying during the school year of her senior year and get scholarships.

I've done some research and have found that she should really start applying now and she is not putting forth the

effort.

Okay. Are are you are you married?

>> Yes. >> Where's her father in this discussion?

>> He agrees with me, but he's also not

quite as assertive as I am. >> Okay. So, I I think what I would do is gather some information um and lay it

out the three of you. And um here here's

the way I would look at it. There was a lady that worked on our team for a while named Christina Ellis.

Look her up, okay? She had a book out called Confessions of a Scholarship Winner uh she applied for as a single

mom's daughter and received $500,000

worth. >> Oh wow. >> And uh so she can and she's like the best I've ever met in the world. She worked on this team for a while here and a sweet girl too. Very smart. Very smart. And uh she ended up getting a graduate degree from Vanderbilt, all paid for. And um so uh

yeah, I would gather the information she's got in that book and you know, here's the types of examples that she bring brought out and I've heard her teach this from stage with me. Okay. Um

you know, if you spent 200 hours

applying for scholarships, that's a lot.

>> Mhm. That's five hours a day

for a lot for 50 days.

>> Yeah. Part-time job. >> Like that's your part-time job. And if you got $50,000 worth of scholarships,

that means that your daughter doing that would have earned $250 an hour.

Mhm. >> I'm going to present that type of information to your daughter and to your husband and then say

based on that, I don't care if you like

it. You're not leaving the house again

until you agree to do this.

>> It's more important for her to do that financially than have the part-time job, the other parttime job >> or go to part-time community college and be ahead of school, >> you know? So, I mean, you cannot earn $250 an hour >> as a 17-year-old anywhere else. And that's the rate. I made that number up, by the way.

Okay?

>> to apply for scholarships. Only you're not getting them today. And so if you go to if you get $50,000 in scholarships and your mom and dad have $50,000 in savings and you're going to get that savings in your pocket when you graduate as a result of having not spent it because you got scholarships that's making $250 an hour.

>> Wonderful point. >> Yeah. And and so but and that changes it

like I'm on your side. I want you to

come out of college with $50,000 in cash

in your pocket from your dad's and I account that we're going to hand to you.

uh because we didn't have to pay for college because you do this smart thing and she's obviously a talented student >> and I >> she is >> I got to believe with AI it's easier than ever to synthesize your ideas and help you know prepare your thoughts for the different essays and prepare you know what >> you can write the essays you can write hundreds of essays in 20 minutes.

>> Yeah. >> With chat GPT.

>> Yeah. I have been doing all the research and presenting it to her and telling her to get a bio essay and to chart out a

schedule. >> Yeah. But you're telling her what to do without her really grasping the why.

>> Mhm. >> And what I'm doing is walking around on the other side and putting a big old carrot out there before I pull the stick out.

>> Okay. >> I want She hadn't been seeing the carrot because she's not dumb. This is a bright child. Yeah, she's >> And by the way, she's not even lazy.

>> She's not lazy. No, so these are She's not That's why we're so shocked. >> Yeah, she's not got character flush. She just hasn't become a believer that this is worth the effort.

>> Mhm. and we've just got to help. You present that to her and her dad and go, "Okay, now are you ready to Okay, let's put together a schedule and you're going to spend 3 hours every morning doing this until you reach 250 hours because it's going to pay you an average of whatever. Okay, the amount you the amount that you get divided by 200 hours.

And when you finish 200 hours, I will shut up. If you've applied, if you've applied 200 hours worth of effort writing essays to get scholarships, you're gonna get so stinking many scholarships. And by the way, get good at it. Don't just don't just mail it in, right?

>> Literally. Yeah. But I mean, work the thing cuz Christina said, "I'm a single mom's daughter and I'm a >> citizen student and I'm this." You know, you have to use whatever your advantages are. >> Uh, you know, I'm 116th Cherokee. I don't care what you are. whatever it is, you lean into that and you uh because you're going to find somebody that's got everything. I mean, there's there's all these little nuance scholarships and um you know, and it doesn't all depend on athletic ability or grades. Uh there's lots of them that

come from all kinds of weird nuanced things. And so, yeah, and

you know, get creative with the essay.

be the most positive thing that they see coming in front of them and they want to give it to them. Pretend like you're on the scholarship committee. What would you want to see if you wrote the essay coming in? What what kind of essays are going to make the difference and that you're going to keep at the top of the stack and all that kind of stuff? And treat this like it's a like it's a straight commission job >> because it basically is.

>> Yeah. And and u but I think we need to get a big carrot out here. are big. This is this is the prize and so the effort

is worth it to get the prize and uh then

then applying for scholarships makes a lot of sense. But yeah, I think you're the only one jazzed up about it in your whole house. So we need to get the rest of the house on jazzed and the way we get jazzed as we talk about the why, not the how. That's the thing. Mike is on

the line in Milwaukee. Hey Mike, what's up?

>> Hi Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Sorry, question is me and my fiance are looking into trying to be able to put ourselves in a position to retire around the 55 mark. >> How old are you? >> Just wondering where uh 35.

>> Okay. When are you getting married?

>> Uh September. >> Oh, good. Cool. >> Okay, cool. Okay, so you got 20 years to get ready to retire at 55 instead of 59

and a half. So you can't access your Roths or your 401ks, right?

>> Yep. And that's what I'm looking for is what it should be invested in to carry from 55 to 59 and a half.

>> Okay. If if we were going to guess, let's just put a wet finger in the air.

What will you need to live per year when

you're 55 if you don't work?

>> If I had to guess, uh maybe 60 $70,000

is be comfortable. So, >> all right, let's just call it 60. And you need to do that times five. So, you need 300K.

Yeah. >> Yeah. If you don't work, why would you not work at all at 55?

>> Why wouldn't you find something to do?

>> Just to have the option to do it.

>> Work optional is probably a better way to say it. Work optional. >> Yeah. Well, work optional is fine, but it's not doesn't happen very often.

So, what I would do is just go ahead and get out of debt, get your house paid off, and build [music] wealth and worry about that when you get a little closer. If you want to invest when you get a little closer, you just do that in a low turnover mutual fund like an S&P 500, like a Vanguard S&P 500 or something like that. And that'll that's a good way to do it. But I wouldn't fool with that today.

[music]

>> [music]

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Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 12:24, "Diligent hands will rule, but laziness

ends in forced labor."

Oof. [laughter] Warren Buffett, rule number one, never lose money. Rule number two, never forget. Rule number one. [laughter]

>> Got it. >> Works for me. Check. >> John is in Minneapolis.

Hey, John. How are you? I'm good. Hey guys, thank you for taking my call.

Sure. Um, so I'm trying to figure out if I'm losing my mind from wanting to walk away from a highpaying job, um, and start all over in something new that pays quite a bit less, at least a start. Um, so I'm in a financial sales position right now. Um, it's almost all commission, so I average around 250,000 a year.

And I know I'm blessed to be in a financial position I'm in. Um, but for the last couple of years, I found zero fulfillment in this job. and been pretty unhappy.

Um we're really pushed to work past the schedule hours, work every single weekend. Um and it's really starting to affect my relationships outside of work.

>> Now I have a lot of >> um a financial product, a mortgage.

>> Okay. >> So you're a mortgage underwriter

>> officer. >> Okay. A loan officer. Yeah. Okay. So is it the work or is it the the conditions in which you're doing the work? >> Why why can't you do that somewhere else that has reasonable culture and reasonable hours and makes a little less and actually it's actually not the actual day-to-day work. It's the environment and the hours and the lack of pri and

the bad priorities that's driving you crazy, right?

>> Um yes. And I've had quite a few workers that or co-workers that have left and went to other companies in the industry and ultimately pretty much every one of them comes back to the company we're at um because they said this is really the best company in terms of you know

technology and stuff. Um but the culture

has been like this and it's really gotten worse over the last I would say 12 months. Um, and what I'm worried about mainly is over the next couple

years I want to be in a position where I'm starting a family and I look at my co-workers and I see them really struggling to keep up in the job and, you know, be there, be present for their families and I just don't want to end up being the parent or not.

Again, I am not buying the fact that you

can make $250,000 at one company and you

can't work normal hours and work for good people and and have a better balance to what you're doing um

>> at a different company >> and make 150 to 200 at a different

company. I don't believe that.

>> I think your co-workers have given you a message that's not true. as if there's one place on the planet that this whole thing can happen and it works and everywhere else it doesn't work. Bull crap.

>> Correct. Yeah. And that's the that's really the feeling that the you know we get from leadership. >> I don't care what leadership told you. You don't you already don't have faith in leadership. Why are you listening to anything? >> So what what what opportunities have you been looking at?

>> Yeah. So we have a family friend who's an electrician in our area. Um, and he's been trying to get me to to be an apprentice for quite a while now.

>> Why? >> Um, >> that's so a completely different path.

>> Why?

>> Because this one company that you work for sucks and so now you're going to go be an electrician.

>> Um, he he doesn't know anything about my my job. >> Yeah. So, why would he even ask?

>> Yeah. We're talking about you. Why would you do >> I mean, okay, I'm I'm an electrician and I know a guy that is a mortgage guy who's obviously making a lot of money. I maybe I don't know it's a quart million dollars a year. Why would I even talk to that guy about being an electrician?

That's just strange.

Yeah, he knows I've always been interested in working with my hands and I ended up just kind of falling into this job through an internship in college and it was always supposed to be uh you know I'll do this for a couple years and then move on to something else. >> How old are you? >> Couple years. Um I'm 29.

>> And how long have you been doing the mortgage broker deal?

>> Uh about eight years.

>> Eight years. Okay. So you're looking at this going, "Man, I fell into this job.

This is not what I intended to do. This is not what I set out to do. I need to stop this train and I need to get on the path that I really want to be on.

>> Correct. >> Understood. Okay. Um, how are you doing

financially?

>> Um, I'm good. So, I have in my checking

account I have about 15,000. Um, I do have an emergency fund with about 25,000 in it and a high yield savings.

>> Uh, no debt at all. Um, I'm very very fortunate there. Um, and then I have a high yield savings with about 115 that was supposed to be for hopefully a wedding here in the next year or two.

Um, and then a down payment on a house and and that sort of stuff. >> Okay. So, you're getting married in the next year. Any kids?

>> No. >> Okay. Listen, I I I do think that you should do work that matters to you, work that you feel good about. It's all about how can we get there and is there a way

that over time we can create the same value? Cuz the hard part for me is to know that you were worth $250,000 in the marketplace and then to go down without

the horizon of being able to meet that that peak again. That would bother me personally. If it doesn't bother you, that's okay. Um, so tell us about the

electrician. What's the route? What does it look like? And what do you want to know from us?

>> No problem. Um, so it it would be a 5-year apprenticeship. It would be a union electrician. So, I'd start at about $21 an hour. Um, in five years,

um, when I make it through, I'd be a journeyman. Right now, the pay is about $42 an hour. Um, but that would just be my base pay. Doesn't include like any fringe benefits or anything on top of that, like health insurance money going into a retirement account. Um, when I do the math, working the same amount of hours I'm working right now, which is 55 to 60 a week. >> You don't want to work that many hours.

So, we can't compare it to that.

>> Um, correct. You're you're right. So, it

would be a pay cut um at the 5-year mark. Um, if I, you know, make it through the apprenticeship, um, I'd be sitting around about 130 a year >> as a journeyman. And that's kind of the peak, >> correct? Yeah. Um, >> unless I would move up to be a foreman and and so on. But, >> man, you really hate this company.

>> I think so, too. I >> this is like they have wounded you so badly that you're willing to jump into a pit of acid to get away from them.

>> Yeah. How do you know that you'll love being an electrician to the tune of a a $100,000 pay cut?

>> That I I don't know for sure. And that's what scares me the most and why I'm why I called in to to get your guys' advice on this. I know >> I don't I I I'm not buying. I I think you're running so hard away from something that you're not looking carefully at what you're running to.

Um, so if I were going to advise a 29-year-old who made $250,000 a year, who's in a toxic culture, um, and he knows how to sell, um, I I I I I'm not

against the trades. I'm a I'm a fan of the trades. Okay.

>> But you have painted the best possible scenario for a union, journment, electrician, and it's going to take you five freaking years to get back to half of your income. >> Yeah. Could you not? >> And that just not that's just not logical. Could you not go to another

>> uh mortgage firm first and test that out

and go, okay, like this is good. You're because Dave's right. You're clearly good at what you do. >> And generally, >> I think you can make 160 180,000 day one

somewhere else working normal hours and not being spit on every day or whatever's happening over there.

You've got to get away from the place.

I'm not disagreeing with that. But I think you've convoluted the career field

as being horrible with the company as

being horrible. And you need to separate those two things first before you make this decision. >> It's hard to me when and you'll probably

be able to put better words to this, but when you're clearly really good at something and you're clearly very gifted at it, it's hard to then say, "But you're not going to do that. You're going to go to this." Do you know what I mean? You've got that talent and that gifting for some reason. I don't know. That's >> It's hard to walk out. >> You know, again, it's this smells like

an escape. >> Yeah. >> Rather than a journey.

>> Yes. >> And um and I don't I it just doesn't smell right. And so, um you you ask our opinions or and we've given a whole three minutes of thought to your whole life. Okay. [laughter] So, it's not really fair to you. But, >> well, he doesn't have to choose between this and that. there are some other routes he can go through before he >> I think it's a false dichotomy that the only way to be happy is to completely leave >> everything that you're doing. Yeah.

>> I I would start by leaving the company that you're in and then see where that takes us first and then >> I would decide [music] from there >> and then is there another way that I can do electrician and own a company that is

electricians and so [music] forth. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's [music] to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 119. No Matter Your Income, You Have To Know Where Your Money Is Going | August 22, 2025


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:11:24 |

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[Music] From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsy Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show, and my daughter is my co-host today.

Phone number here is88255225.

April is in Michigan. Hi, April. How are you? >> I'm doing excellent. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? >> Um, we have a an interesting situation.

My mother-in-law is in the end stages of um advanced Alzheimer's disease. Mhm.

>> She's 89 years old and continues to have a decline. >> She was amazing with money. She's got a great nest egg, will live beyond, you

know, her money will live out with her by lots of years. She has a huge coin

collection. Um, and we are trying to figure out how we can best get that appraised by somebody that's reliable.

She has Morgan silver dollars, Liberty Heads, she has gold coins from the 1800s. Some are uncirculated and in mint

condition and others are I mean she has a literal bag of silver dollars that are probably just worth their weight. So the only places around us that would look at the coins are pawn shops and I know that that's not a great place to start. So I'm just looking for advice on how we find a reliable appraiser.

Um, I don't know. The all I did I had a

a box of coins that an elderly uh family

member had given us. Uh, they probably weren't as good as what you've got. Uh,

there were some in there that were valuable. Um, I just I I called around to some jewelry stores and asked who was a coin dealer. I'm looking for a coin dealer, somebody that buys and sells coins. And um and I actually, you know,

just I said, "Okay, if you appraise these for me, um would you be interested

in some of them?" Maybe. And uh the guy did it. And it really was inexpensive.

And I ended up with a huge bag of uh

wheat pennies that we just took to the bank. And and then the other stuff we just sold it to him. And uh there there wasn't anything in there that was outstanding. I think a couple of these things you're describing might be outstanding. I don't know. But you're looking for a coin dealer, a local coin dealer, >> local or even I mean the internet, I bet you could find somebody good.

>> Yeah. The only problem is you don't >> you got to really be able to you're going to have to ship them to them and that can be heavy >> and expensive. And so if if they're out of town and so again, I just we're in the Nashville area and we found a guy here in Nashville that was a coin dealer and um you know, start poking around. Um

I can't remember. I think it was a jewelry store or a friend of mine that owned a pawn shop that told me who the coin dealer was. I might have just found it on Google. I don't remember. It was about it was probably uh eight years ago

or something like that that I did that. So, that's how I did it. It really wasn't some kind of insightful thing. I

just scratched around and found somebody. But that you want somebody that's in the coin world, a coin collector. Um, if you could find somebody that just is running a a local

uh social media page that on coin collection even uh and just start poking

around on that, they they would know someone to appraise it. Um or maybe you could just find somebody that doing it as a hobby to appraise it and pay them for doing that, you know. And and if you felt if you felt good about their knowledge base and um

the thing we didn't want to do is we didn't want to just uh roll it all and send it to the bank and then find out there was one of those stinking wheat pennies that was worth $10,000 or something. And so we had him go through them and he said, "Nope, no, no, no, no, no. >> I don't know what a wheat penny is." >> Yeah. It's a penny that has wheat on it in the early 1900s.

>> Oh. So, um, >> more valuable. >> Uh, no. >> Oh, >> not much.

It might be it might be worth a penny and a half.

>> But, uh, it's not worth screwing with, but most of the time most the ones that

we had weren't. And so, um, >> yeah. Anyway, that that's how we did it, hun. And I just check out. I' I'd run around and uh coin dealers, coin collectors, uh you know, people that do

any kind of uh u art appraising, maybe

someone that does art, they may know someone in the coin world, cuz all of these will fall in the collectibles category as far as uh a hobby or

something goes. Same kind of thing. So, hey, good question. Thanks for calling in. Mary is in New Jersey. Hi, Mary. How are you?

>> I am doing well. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm calling because I want to know if I should take on a new job. Um, just

to an additional job on top of the job I have rather. Um, I have a great job. Um, my husband and I, we have student debt

um of about I think his is 95, mine is

75. Um, we don't really have credit card

debt. Um, and we have a card that we're

making payments on, but we're going to attack that so that we don't have that anymore. Um, I've been watching a lot of your your shows and um, it's really

convicted me and my heart on um, how I

needed to just be more supportive on of my husband as he's um, he's amazing and

he's so wonderful and I just want to be a better teammate with him to attack these debts. Um, we're also fairly new

parents and um, this is the first time in my life where I don't have multiple jobs and I'm spending, you know, I I

work late, but I'm spending time with my daughter as much as I can. Um, and I

just I want to I want to be a team with

my husband so we can do better.

>> So, is he already on board, Mary?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. So, you're the one kind of catching up, I guess, in this sense.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And how long has have you guys been talking about this?

>> Um I So,

he's been So, he read one of the Dave

Ramsey books uh a long a long time ago

and that's actually how we're out of credit card debt. Um I have anxiety and

for the longest time like talking about the finances will kind of make me spin out. I'm in a better place now. on getting help for it. Um, >> good for you. >> And like for the first time, I was able two days ago to like open this massive spreadsheet that he made and look at it without freaking out and say like, "Okay, babe, explain this to me. Tell me how this works." >> That's huge. >> Well, and honestly, Mary, I mean, that's that's the way to be a great teammate.

Do you know what I'm saying? And it's not that you have to go along with every single thing. If you have opinions, too, I think it's healthy to say those and you guys work through it >> together as two adults. But I think getting to a place, which I think we all have in our lives and in our marriages, where you look at your spouse and you're like, "Okay, what you've been doing is better than my plan." And there's a level of humility there to say, "All right, uh, I'm on board.

I want to I want to I want to do this with you." And just that attitude shift, Mary, I mean, give yourself credit because I mean, that's that's huge.

And so um so yeah, you know, if you

think I may need an extra job, I need to maybe bring in some extra money, you guys map that out and just say, okay, what if you did take on an extra job?

How long and how many hours would you have to work for you guys to be debtree in x amount of time? or if you didn't take an extra job as a new mom and you just worked yours, but you know, you guys tightened up the budget other ways, it would probably take you a little bit longer, but maybe y'all are okay with that for the season as new parents, right? So, it gets down to a values conversation between the both of you at that point to decide how fast do we want to do this? How aggressive do we want to do it?

And the faster you do it, Mary, the faster you're out.

And you guys do that together. But I'm excited for you guys. I think it's awesome. And I'm sure your husband's jumping up and down inside that he got that he got you on board.

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[Music]

Helen, New York. Hi Helen. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So my husband wants to buy a seven

passenger family type luxury car that

will cost about $90,000.

and I am fine with him buying the car,

but when it comes down to actually purchasing it each time he stops and says, "Oh, there's better stuff we could do with our money. We shouldn't spend this on a car, but we have no debt. Our

house is paid off. He makes over

$400,000 a year.

I don't want him to buy a cheaper car

like a Chevy or a Ford and then not be

happy and have the regret that I should have spent the money on the more expensive car that I really want.

>> How old is he?

>> He is in his 60s 62.

>> Okay. And $400,000 a year income, no

debt, house is paid for included. How much is in you guys nest egg? What's your net worth?

over four million. >> Okay. All right. The way that my wife and I make these decisions, Helen, is um

we ask ourselves if we take that amount of money, $90,000, and we burn it in the middle of

the floor, does it affect our life? And the answer

in your equation is other than you would cry, it would not affect your life.

>> Correct? You could throw $90,000 out the window of the house and watch the neighbors scramble and it would not affect your life.

You would you would you wouldn't even know what happened because you have $4 million plus a paid for house plus a $400,000 income. This is a very

reasonable purchase given your numbers.

And I just that way I know I'm not being irresponsible. If you flinch when you do

it, not from the emotions, but from the mathematics. And I'll give you an example. Okay? If you told me it was 400K, >> well, that's one year's income. That's 10% of your net worth. That's too much.

>> Okay. >> Yes. >> And so that mathemat says I would feel it.

>> Helen, how did he grow up? What was his upbringing?

So, we both grew up with uh parents that

probably struggled a little while we were growing up, but then did better.

>> We have never had credit card debt.

We've never made like crazy car

purchases. >> This is not a crazy college, >> right? >> We paid off our loans.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> What car? >> Because to me, it's not a math problem.

He knows math. He's a smart guy. He's making $400,000 a year. I mean, like he's he's smart. It's not a math problem. This is all an emotional problem. There's fear driving this.

There's stress. There's a level of control. I mean, like, you know what I mean? Like all of that >> has a desire to be responsible. And my point is it's not irresponsible.

>> I don't think it's a desire. I think he has been responsible. >> I know. I mean, that he's afraid he's being irresponsible, >> right? Which comes out of fear. The motivator. Yeah. Is is is is irrational.

You know what I mean? So, >> what car is it?

>> It's a BMW. And and I just don't want

him to buy a cheaper car.

>> Well, I don't care about that. I want I do want him to buy a cheaper car if he can't afford it. >> So, but but in this case, he can afford the Beamer. Go get it. Yeah, I definitely would buy this car.

>> You can tell him I said >> I don't want him I don't want him in two years to say, "Oh, I should have bought it." >> Well, you know what? >> We bought We're getting rid of and we're buying it. >> Yeah, that's not the reason he should buy it. Yeah, I disagree.

The reason he should buy it is the amount of money is irrelevant because you guys have done such a good job and you should enjoy your life. >> Yeah. Because he could buy the Ford and then in two years regret it and go buy the Beamer and nothing would I mean like that's fine, right? Like that's not the thing.

The issue I would have with him is what is going on within you? That's the fascinating thing about money is we always say, you know, take control of your money. Do a budget. You be the one to control your money.

And we do that because so many people they're not in control and it's like they have no clue where it's going. And on one end we see that and then on the other end people take the extreme of take control and it's such control that it almost becomes an idol. This level of like I don't want to let go and that stress and anxiety that's not freedom either, right? So you have to find that balance and it's hard because we see we see this a lot I feel like of people that have worked the plan and paid off their house and they >> they don't want to go on vacation because they're so fearful.

Oh god, am I going to mess this up? Is this okay? And that's in much bondage, right? I mean, from an emotional sense, >> live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else.

make sure your generosity is where it should be. Make sure your investing is where it should be. Make sure if you're going to consume or blow some money on something

>> that it's a an amount of money that does not affect your life >> and it's a small enough ratio, small enough percentage of that and so you

don't have to think about it. And you're there, you've worked your tail off. You guys have worked your tails off for 40 years. You've earned the right to do this. Not because of their hard work, but because of the results of your hard work. If you worked your whole life, really if you worked really hard and saved no money and had no money, then you haven't earned the right to buy the beamer, but you have the pile of money

>> as a result of your hard work. And so, you should enjoy the fruits of your labor at this point. That's how we ought to do it. Good question. Tyson's in Boisee, Idaho. Hey Tyson, what's up?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call today. Sure. First time uh first time calling in. >> Well, we're honored.

>> Couple things. So, I've always kind of lived my wife and I have uh lived Dave Dave Ramsey adjacent is kind of like my my affectionate way of saying >> that means you were right part of the time.

>> We have six months of savings uh like emergency fund. Um, we have we put 18 to

19% of our annual income into retirement. That includes 401k and maxing out Ross for each of us each year. Um, we have a small amount about five grand each in our twins uh the five

years old twins uh college accounts. So, we're doing some stuff. My one question is we have $19,000 worth of truck debt.

Um, the truck isn't upside down. It's a nice Toyota Tundra. Just looking for some advice. Should we borrow from ourselves and our Roth?

>> No. >> Or should we just or should we just continue down the path of paying this thing off in six to eight months?

>> Well, don't you have money saved in an emergency fund?

>> We do. And I don't I I guess there's

prepition on should we pull the money out of our six month fund just to pay that down? >> Yes. >> Seems like a dumb question. >> You should pay you should pay your truck off today or you should sell it. One of the two.

>> Okay. One of the one of the two. Um, >> I pay it off today and then then I would take the 6 months and rebuild my emergency fund.

>> That's easy enough. And then we're working to pay off our house after that.

So, we're we're getting there, man. We're we're super close. >> Exactly. Yeah. It's pretty simple. And don't buy another truck, dude. Unless you have the money and you write the check. No more debt. The key to building

wealth is not having stupid truck payments. And I like I drove my truck

today. I like a good truck. There's nothing wrong with that. But >> you parked it kind of sideways. Well, it's because that way nobody can hit the door on the new Raptor. >> My Tesla is literally parked right next to you at the charger station. I thought his parking you people that charge cars can hit other people's doors. I know about you people. So, I park it where you can't get to my Raptor and mess it up. So, >> don't mess up Don't mess up my truck.

Well, you're the one picking on my parking style. But the uh Anyway, the

>> James knows it's intentional. It's not cuz I don't know how to park. Okay. So, let's keep you people off my truck. But anyway, the Yeah, I I want you to get a truck, Tyson. I want your truck to get you. And truck payments are when you folks, when you sign a car payment agreement and you say, "I want a car payment." Right under that, it says, "I

am committed to being in the middle class the rest of my life." Car payments are the mantra, the the

motto of the middle class.

You're always going to have a car payment. You might as well have a big one.

Just get what you want. Life's too short. Got to have a airbag on the

passenger side. That's not my mother-in-law.

We got Everybody's got a saying about a car. They always, you know, it's not safe. My little babies are all going to die because the car is four years old.

Oh, shut up.

Car payments are basically signing up

and saying, "Yeah, >> I want to be in the middle class." What do you take >> from age 25 to 65?

>> If you didn't have a $700 car payment every month and you just invested it, you'd have 4.4 million at 65.

>> Hope you like the car. >> There you go. There's your $4 million car. >> Broke your middle class thing and turns you into upper class. You be upper class now.

[Music]

Okay, Rachel, the internet officially knows too much about all of us.

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And just a year ago, get this, the average person had about 300 pieces of personal data floating around online. Now it's over 600. It has doubled in a year. >> You guys, that is so concerning because that info then can be used in fishing scams, impersonation, and even harassment.

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[Music]

You ever wanted to see the person calling on this show instead of just hearing them? You ever want to see the show done live? We do it on the glass every day, Monday through Friday from 1 to 4. And you can stop by Ramsey Solutions anytime.

and we have free coffee and wonderful homemade cookies. >> A wonderful audience today. >> And uh we've always got >> beautiful people, >> 50 to 200 folks out here hanging out with us. And so if you ever want to do that, we'd love to have you come by.

Oh, and by the way, we're taking the Ramsey Show on the road. We're going to do a little tour this fall. So you can experience the live Q&A. You can be part of the live Q&A.

local debtfree scream. It's all happening live and we're going to do two of them in the fall. It's the first time we've ever done this. And uh we launched it about 3 or 4 days ago and it's all

almost sold out. There's just a handful of tickets. So this probably don't even need to do this ad, but we're going to tell you about it and you can finish off the last few tickets if you want.

Rachel, Ken, and George will be doing the show in Chicago on September 30th.

And tickets are a whole $39. And there's only about three or 400 seats a night.

So that's why it just disappeared. It evaporated in just a couple days. You can't get in. And so you may be able to get tickets to either one of these by the time you hear this. So check. But I they're going really they're just about gone. Jade, John, and George will take the stage in Orlando couple days later,

October the 2nd.

Uh so you can't feel this kind of hope through the headphones. You got to be there. Click the link in the show notes and get signed up or go to ramiesolutions.comvents.

again. Uh, September 30th in Chicago, October the 2nd in Orlando. Colin is in

Michigan. Hey, Colin. How are you?

>> Hey, good Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, I got a quick question for you. So, I'm a junior in college and I have about $85,000 in my 20 529 account. Um, I was

wondering if I should be using that just for tuition and material costs or if I could be using it for my living expenses as well. I think you can use it for your living expenses as well as far as the onampus housing and that kind of thing.

You'd need to check that because I'm not positive doing that off the top of my head. Um, have you gotten any scholarships?

>> Yes. So that Yes. So my scholarships cover about 50% of the cost.

>> The only other cost I pay is about $35,000 in tuition every semester.

>> Okay. You can you can remove the value of your scholarships from your 529 without penalty.

Oh, okay. Really? >> And then you could use that for living expenses for sure.

>> Okay. >> Or or anything you want to use it for for that matter. But uh technically >> Yeah. How much per semester are you getting in scholarships, Colin?

>> Uh about $3,500.

>> Okay. I'm just thinking because you have how much in the 529?

>> 85 or 83.

>> Yeah. So you've gotten $7,000 a year for two or three years, right?

>> Yep. That's correct. >> Okay. So, I mean, you pull probably 25 out of it without any trouble at all.

Uh, you've just got to be able in the case of an audit, you've got to be able to document the amount, the value of the

scholarship. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And uh so sometimes scholarships are are not an actual dollar amount. They're just a thing that they're giving you and you need to put a value on that thing if you get something like that, like if you got free housing or something, >> that kind of a thing. Uh so, um but yeah, you can pull that much out.

So, I know that can be done. As far as the remaining money, can it actually be used for living expenses?

>> Qualified. Okay. Qualified home.

>> And Colin, you can roll over 35,000 of it when the account's been open for 15 years into your Roth IRA. Uh, that >> Yes, I did know that. >> Okay. Yeah. So, that passed, which is great. So, yeah. So, if you which you'll be close to that is um with the 24,000.

>> There's a bunch of stipulations on that.

That's under Biden's Secure Act and it's not great. >> Oh, really? I've heard people starting to do Okay. >> It's very difficult. You You can do it.

>> Well, I would do it then.

Sit there. >> I'd clean it out. >> He's not He's not going to be able to clean it out. He's got 83,000 20ome in scholarships. It's $50,000. He's not going to live on $50,000 in two years.

>> Probably not. Yeah. So I would look >> the other thing you can do is you actually can >> you can hold it. It can be used for your kids someday. >> You can be used for your spouse someday.

It could be used for >> Would you keep it in or would you try to roll it to a rock? >> Once you realize how hard it is to roll, I might keep it for a while >> and just wait for >> Well, I mean during the 15 years you got to wait anyway. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. >> A lot of your life's going to happen. Then you could decide more intelligently. But you don't have to decide that today.

Yeah. >> You have to leave it in there for that period of time. So, or be penalized >> unless his parents opened it when he was two >> and it's 19.

>> Correct. Isn't it when you start the 529? >> Don't know. Okay. >> I don't know. I I I had it under the impression after you finished school that the 15 years started and so you were up in your before you could do it.

>> I don't know. >> But I some options, Colin, but at least use it for living expenses. >> The main thing I would do is I'd get the scholarship money out and I'd use it for living expenses. And then let's see what's left. What's left hopefully will be negligible and it won't matter. Um and that that would be good. You've done a great job by the way. Dad free school.

Way to go Colin. Yeah.

>> All right. Matt's in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey, Matt.

>> Hey, how's it going?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, Dave, I guess I'm just struggling with a career problem because um I got

married in 2014 and ever since then I've

only been making 40,000 a year in the different jobs I've had up through this point and I'm trying to figure out a way to grow in a career and it just seems like all I'm doing is working and exhausting myself, coming home tired and I'm just and I feel just so spent like I

just don't know what to do anymore.

>> What do you do?

I'm a del package delivery driver. Oh, >> okay. Yeah, that's hard work. Yeah. So, you're putting in 40 hours and you working for like UPs or you working for Amazon or what?

>> FedEx. >> FedEx. The other one. Okay. Left one out. Sorry. >> Okay. Um, so what are you making? Like 60 or 70?

>> No, I'm making 40. >> Oh, you said 40. Really? I thought FedEx drivers did better than that. Okay.

>> I wish. >> Okay. Um,

all right. Well, it it it comes down to a couple of things. Uh, obviously what

you've done is you took a job because you're a responsible person so that you could pay your bills and eat and feed your family, right?

>> Yes. Absolutely. >> That's your first big deal. Get people to do that sometimes is hard. And then the second once you once you've got that covered then the second thing to do is okay ask the question that you're asking so you're you're doing all the things in the right order and the question is okay now how do I move careers into something

that I can make 140,000 what's that look

like and then you start asking yourself okay what are those careers what are the things I'm good at what are my natural bents uh what might what training might I need to get that I haven't had to move into that area. Um, you know, but, uh,

there's probably something you've dreamed about doing. Maybe opening your own business. I mean, I don't know, but I I know guys running pressure washing companies that are making 100K.

>> Okay. H >> And obviously that's not rocket science,

>> right? Yeah. >> You don't have to go back and get the pressure washing degree, right? So, no, >> you run down to Home Depot, buy one, and knock on somebody's door and here we go.

And so, um, you know, so I I but you've

but you've got to lean into it and you got to be aggressive and ambitious and all those kinds of things. And you have all of that because you're asking this question. That's what that tells me. If you weren't asking us questions where we'd really have a problem. >> Is there anything, Matt, in your head that you've always thought about or kind of dream about an ideal career?

>> If I could do this and make $150,000 a year, what would it be?

Well, honestly, to tell you the truth, I would love to, you know, teach people how to get out of debt because I mean, my wife and I have been debtree and we have an emergency fund. We've been following you for the last 10 years and um we're just we've just been struggling to save for a house, but I mean we and

the fact that there that we've been only made this much money and we've been able to get this far, I mean, tells me that, you know, I can do this and I can teach other people how helping people is a big thing. Yeah. Well, Ken Coleman talks about um find the work you're wired to do and there's elements of people where there's like kind of this natural >> thing that comes out of them, right? So, for you it's helping people and it may be in the avenue of money.

It could be something else that you realize, oh my gosh, I'm really good at that. Um, but if you hang on the line, Matt, we'll send you Ken's book and there's an assessment uh at the at the end of the book which you can take. It's a code and you can log in and it's an incredible assessment that asks you all these questions and it kind of pairs down some things just to get the juices flowing if you will, right? Just to kind of give you some ideas.

>> It'll help give you some guidance in what direction you could go. And if you want to learn to be a Ramsey coach, we have a Ramsey coach certification program. You can check that out online, too. Some of those coaches make good money.

Some of them don't do much coaching.

[Music]

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not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Cameron in Kansas. My wife and I are on baby steps four, five, and six. We were both raised by hardcore Ramsay followers except my dad who became a little Ramsayish once he hit baby step seven. He opened up a credit card in my name when I went to college so I could easily buy a house one day. The card lives in his basement

and is only used once a month for the family television subscription bill which is paid off every month. I've never seen the card. My wife and I don't care about having good credit. Should I ask my dad to cancel the card so my credit score disappears or just leave it alone since it's not hurting anything?

Oh, I would get rid of this.

>> This is gross. >> I would get rid of it, Cameron.

>> I mean, I'm not worried about the credit thing. It's your violation of your boundaries. You're like an adult and stuff. My card lives in my dad's

basement.

That's whacked.

Yeah. How about you chop up the card and close the account like a grown man and your dad doesn't interfere in a grown man's life?

If he wants to do something with his life, he can go do something with his life. But he shouldn't be doing this with his grown son. I would no more do something like that to one of my children than fly to the moon. Even if I was right, you know, and in this case, he's both things a boundary violator and not right. >> So yeah. No. Oh yeah, you should definitely call him and go, "Dude, we're not doing this anymore. Chop, chop, chop, close, close, close." Pay for your

>> Yeah, that's a good point.

>> With all this stuff, it's like whatever.

But it's it is the boundary violation that your dad has a financial string

attached to you basically who that he's in kind of in charge of. It's weird.

Weird. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's way out of control. All right. In Virginia, it is is it LAR? Is

that right? Yes, sir. Hi, Dave. >> Hey, what's up?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call today.

>> Sure. >> Um, my wife and I are both 26 years old.

We're completely out of debt and we're currently on baby step number four.

>> Good. >> Um, my question for you is we're trying

to figure out how aggressive we need to be with purchasing our first home. So, we currently rent here in Northern Virginia, just outside of DC. And our rent is pretty expensive, but we have good jobs out here, so we we stick around. Um, but I know that you say

during steps, baby step one, two, and three, you need to be like a gazelle with some fire underneath you. And we've definitely done that. Um, but now that we're on baby step number four, we're not quite sure how much of our income to put towards our uh our first home.

Well, obviously the more you put towards it, the more the down payment is and the smaller the debt is. So, as much as we

can do and still accomplish some of these other things, we call this baby step 3B. You may have heard us talk about that when you're between baby step three where you finished your get out of debt plan, except your house. You don't you're say now saving for a house and you've got your emergency fund in place.

So, that's after baby step three in other words, but before we start baby step four. Some people put everything

they can scrape together towards a down payment to build up a big one very quick and delay starting baby step four or 15%

of your income going into retirement for two or three years to pile up a big old pile of cash for down payment. That's the one end of the extreme. The other end of the extreme is to put all 15% away into retirement and do as much down payment as you can do above that.

Anywhere in between is okay. Sometimes people do 10% for retirement and then load their down payment fund as quick as they can. Anywhere in there is all we want to do. I do not want to delay starting retirement more than about three, maybe four years.

>> And the lowest amount of a down payment we recommend is 5%. But if you can do more, obviously that's that's better. So what's your household income?

>> So our household income uh gross is

about $160,000 a year. Good. Very good.

Okay. >> So, we we um we currently are putting about $1,000 a month in into a um a high

yield savings account to save up for our our down payment. Ideally, we would like about $100,000. Um so, we can do about

20% on our first home is what our goal is. Um >> you're not going to get there at $1,000 a month, >> right? which is, you know, we're we're trying to figure out, you know, should we cut out certain things in our life to help us get there sooner? >> Have you started the retirement savings?

>> We are. We have about 15% of our income

is is going towards retirement. >> How how much is that per month, do you know what that would be cashwise if you put it back in your paycheck?

>> Um, I'm not sure. Um, I would imagine

>> um it's it's somewhere around two two to

two and a half thousand. >> Yeah. I'm I I I would look at stopping my retirement temporarily and throwing all of that in the down payment because that starts to be $36,000 a year. That puts you in a house in three years at your $100,000 goal and then you start your retirement.

>> Okay. >> You're not going to get there at $12,000 a year. >> And you guys are 24. Is that what you said? >> Uh 26. >> 26. Okay. >> So you'll be 29 buying a house with $100,000 down. Start your retirement.

then you'll be multi-millionaires.

>> That sounds lovely. >> Yeah, I that I just don't I don't think the 12 is that sounds like a 10-year plan. That's not a plan, right?

>> Yeah. I mean, that that's kind of where we're where our head is at, too, when we really looked at it. Uh we're not sure how long it's going to take us to get there with especially with housing only going up. So, >> Exactly.

Exactly. So yeah, I think 36 months of saving and delaying your retirement. I just said 3 to four years and doing 100% of your game plan on the debt snowball. I mean on the down payment fund instead of be funding retirement temporarily is what I would do cuz I'd be wanting to get into a house and I think you are too.

So yeah, that that makes a lot of sense with the math in your situation.

>> you know, and get get to their good strong down payment. And that's a 20% down is what he's aiming at. And that, by the way, if you put down 20% on a Fanny May, a standard conventional mortgage, which is the least expensive mortgage of the of the conforming mortgages. And if you put down 20%, you avoid PMI, private mortgage insurance, which is about $75 a month per 100,000

borrowed.

And so it's, you know, it's uh 300 bucks

a month for a $400,000 mortgage if you don't put down 20%. That's a lot.

>> Again, that's 3600 bucks a year. That

starts to be almost 1% of your mortgage amount that you're paying out in insurance. And all private mortgage insurance is, folks, it's insurance that the mortgage company requires you to buy for them in the event they have to

foreclose on you and they lose money on

the house cuz you didn't put it down a big payment down payment, then uh then

this insurance covers the difference.

And they don't require that if you put down 20% because they've got the margin.

They know with that loan to value ratio that they're safe and they're not if they did have to foreclose, they're not going to lose money. But when you're north of 80% on the loan to value, if you don't put down at least 20%, then uh then they're going to require that and it's expensive and it's useless. It's basically foreclosure insurance for the mortgage company, but you have to pay for it. That's why it's aggravating and

and so yeah, I I love to see people put

down% because of that. But again, first-time home buyers, Rachel's right, we we don't yell at you for putting down 5%, but you're paying a premium when you do that, >> right? Well, and I mean, it's kind of that like tension of the market's not going down, right? And so if you have to wait another three, four, five years to save the 20%, could you get in earlier >> from a cheaper, you know, standpoint of like it's it's kind of a little bit of that that game you kind of have to play.

But >> no, by the way, just as a side note, if you did take out a mortgage that has MIP, mortgage insurance premium on FHA

or PMI, when you do get it paid down to

that ratio, you can request they stop it. you have the right to stop paying

for the insurance once it gets down to there. If you're doing it based on the fact that the value has gone up and now I've got 20% equity, not just paid it down to 80%. You may have to pay for an

appraisal, but a $400 or $500 appraisal

is nothing compared to the cost of PMI.

>> That's a good point. >> And so, um, you know, that's not a big deal. Now, don't just go get any appraisal. You've got to get one that's approved by your mortgage company cuz they're the ones have to accept it in order to drop the PMI. So, you can get

out of this. It's not forever, but you just kind of got to be thoughtful about how you're doing it and not just assume you're going to have it forever cuz you don't want it forever. It's too stinking expensive.

[Music]

[Music] From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show. Welcome back. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, is my co-host today. Number one bestselling author and my daughter. Joe is with us in North Carolina. Hi Joe.

How are you?

>> Good. How are you guys doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm looking to transition from my

full-time job to doing my side business full-time, and I'm just wondering how to set myself up financially when I'm ready to make that move.

Well, the best way to do it is to raise the income of the side business to where it's within reach of your day job.

>> Okay? >> In other words, we always say pull the boat up really close to the dock before you so you can step into the boat

instead of having to leap and hope you hit the boat. So, okay.

>> Meaning, uh, So, what is your income on your side business now?

>> Right now, it's only about a,000 a month. working weekends.

>> Working weekends only.

>> Yeah, it's basically just Saturdays.

>> What do you do?

>> Uh mobile mechanic.

>> Oh, good. Okay, cool. And um so you got

the truck and the tools and so forth.

>> Yes. >> Okay, that's neat. Um and what do you

make on your day job?

um around 93 a year depending on overtime before everything.

>> Okay. So jumping from 93 to 12 is not a

plan. >> That's too scary.

>> Um and there's two reasons it's too scary. Number one, um you if you had a big old savings account, you'd burn through it to cover the difference.

>> Number two, you don't have proof that

this business will scale.

All you've got is $1,000 a month worth of proof. And I want more proof than that before I bet the farm on it, so to speak. >> So, yeah, >> what can we do to add more hours and more income to the mobile business to get it to >> gosh, let's get it to 60,000 from 12,000.

>> Yeah. It would basically be a time issue. Yeah. >> Um because like I I've have work coming in, but I can't even get to it all because I just don't have the time for it, you know?

Why?

>> Um just because >> they only want to do it during work hours.

>> A lot of the times, but I don't have time during the week after my full-time job. And so like that's why I push off Saturday. >> Um just because of my schedule for the day, you know, I'm out of the house early and then home later. And

>> so you're working more than 40 at your day job.

>> Uh a lot of the times, yeah, >> because if you're working 40, you do have time. Can you pull back on your main job, Adam, and start supplementing some of those hours? Maybe like twice, like two nights a week.

>> Yeah, I might be able to. It's just it's not predictable. So, getting this getting everything scheduled, like if I had a job scheduled, then that day at work, something happens and I'm unable to make it, you know, >> for your full-time job, you mean? >> What do you do? What do you do during the day? >> I'm a diesel mechanic.

>> So, why would you have to stay after?

What was that? >> What do you mean if something happens during the day? What would happen during the day? >> Like if I'm on a job and it doesn't go as planned, you know, and then it ends up turning into a later uh takes longer

than it should. You know what I mean?

>> And you have to stay there to finish that job. You can't just like >> you can't roll you can't roll it till the next morning.

>> No. And then there's also emergencies uh emergency call outs as well that happen.

How much of that job going over what is

supposed to an emergency do you really have?

>> Um it it depends.

>> I know.

>> But how much do you really have >> for time? >> No. How often does that really happen?

Or how often are you just electing to stay late?

>> No. No. I don't elect. Like I I would like uh 40 hours is fine for me. Like I

don't that's the other that's why I'm trying to do the side business cuz I don't need all the you know I money is good but it's not like I I don't need all the hours and stuff like that. Like we're in a pretty good spot where we don't need all that extra >> Yeah. >> income. I don't want to say you know it's bad but >> So how much how much mobile business are you turning away?

Um, it probably ends up being one or two

jobs a week just because I tell them I'm out a couple weeks and then >> which is which is which is how much how much is a job worth on average.

>> Uh be like three to 500 depending. Some are more but yeah roughly around there.

>> So a,000 bucks a week possibly you're turning away. So close to $4,000 is what you could be doing on a minimum.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, cuz I kind of did the math. Figured it out that way. But >> yeah, I want you to start taking those jobs and booking them.

>> Even if you and just tell them if something blows up at work, I may have to push you a day.

>> But I I'm going to other if I'm I'm going to be there Tuesday, but if I get blown up Tuesday, I'm going to move it to Wednesday and we'll get to you. Okay.

I want you to start I want you to pick up some stuff, a couple of those jobs a night, >> a couple during the week nights and get this up to $3,000 anyway. Have you got any savings?

Yeah, I have uh me and my wife have about 120 in in 401ks and then we got

about another 20 just in regular savings. >> You ain't got enough to do this. Okay.

You can't >> That's what I was wondering. I was I was wondering if I should open another savings account and kind of put a bunch of money in there. >> Yeah. To have that you're not going to be able to get I'd like for somebody making 94 to get their income to 60 to

70 before they make the leap.

>> And you're not going to be able to do that in the situation you're in. But maybe we can get you up, maybe we can get you up to, you know, 36 or 40 or something >> and have a good healthy savings account.

Those would be the two things I would do. I would not make this leap with any amount of savings in the bank >> when I only have a $1,000 income.

>> Yeah, exactly. >> Because you have not proven the business idea is scalable. You think it is,

>> but you have not proven it. And you're counting, the family's counting on you to prove it >> for what, 6 months consistently >> that it's coming in and then make the jump. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, if you can get another $2,000 um a week, that gets you to

36,000 by beefing up your Saturday a

little bit tighter, working more hours.

You're going to burn some c you're going to burn some candle oil here. Okay?

You're going to burn the candle at both ends in order to get this thing going.

That's the price you're going to pay to do this. Otherwise, you're gonna take a leap of faith, which is called stupidity. >> Well, and and again, it's it's this the the whole working to and trying to get this going. Again, it's it's for six months. So, you think about that. I mean, by February, >> work like a crazy month and do it and

then make the kids are whining, your wife's whining because they never see you. And honey, that's the price we pay to get this other business up and running enough that we can trust it >> for me to walk out of this other one.

>> Yeah. And uh I think you can do it. I

think what you're doing is marketable uh in a world where >> oh my gosh convenience convenience and luxury items convenience items and luxury items and you're both are u are

at a premium and uh they're the types of

businesses that are doing the best and so I I think you're in the right place.

>> Mobile grooming of dogs, the the the mechanics that come to your house. I mean all the I know exactly that's what I'm saying. I'm like, the convenience world out there is just growing and growing and people are >> I am not betting your family's future on that when you've only made $12,000 a year. I would not do that. That's bad

business acumen. So, we want we want more social proof, more proof in the marketplace that we can actually turn this into money. And uh if you could get it up to 36,000 and hold it there for 6 months and be about to collapse cuz all you do is work all the time, I'd be ready to I'd be ready to try it. If you especially if you had some savings and if your wife has an in good income, we failed to ask about that.

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[Music]

Denise is with us in Memphis. Hi, Denise. How are you?

>> Doing okay. >> Good. How can we help?

>> Um, I'm trying to figure out is there ever a point where you're actually saving too much? >> No.

>> Well, the Bible may I'm messing with you. I'm

messing with you. That's fun. Okay. So,

why do you think you're saving too much?

Well, we have seven kids and it just seems like things are super super tight and my husband's very anxious about money. >> Mhm.

Okay. Well, uh are the kids eating?

>> Yes. >> Okay. What is super tight?

>> Um it's just uh sometimes we dip down

into the savings and then we dip back out and it's just um >> in order to do what? in order to just do

general living. >> What's general living?

>> Like well insurance, groceries.

Um >> so you're saving so much that you're not budgeting properly for groceries.

>> Well, no. We're we're we're budgeting for groceries. I'm just saying I said properly. Seems like there's >> If you're budgeting properly, you would never dip into savings for groceries unless you were overspending on groceries.

>> Yeah. It just it just it just we don't

have any it feels like we don't have any breathing room >> any margin in your budget.

>> Yeah, >> it feels like >> How much How much do you guys make a year?

>> 150,000. >> Okay. Well, that's enough to feed seven kids.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you shouldn't have a problem.

Where do you think the overspending is occurring?

Um well, we're doing like 10 and a half%

into the um 401k, 3,500 in the HSA, and

then we're doing um an additional 15K in

the Roth. Um I honestly think that insurance and groceries is just eating our lunch lately.

>> How much are you spending on groceries?

>> Um so it a it's okay. groceries plus

what we pay to the school. I would say about 1,500 a month.

>> Are they in private paid to the school?

>> No. No, no, no. Just like it just cost us $100 every week for all five kids to

eat at school >> for lunch.

>> Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. All right. And um that that would

be but that's not killing you on 100. So Okay. Do you have a house debt?

>> No. And you don't owe anything on your home? >> No, sir. >> And you don't owe any other debt?

>> No. >> Okay. >> And and and and we have a lot in

savings. We kind of did everything opposite of everyone. We paid everything off first and then we had kids. And so we have a a sizable retirement fund. And

it just feels very strange to still be um in a situation where my husband's getting upset about money when we're supposed to be doing that well on paper.

That makes sense.

>> Yeah. Are you guys funding? You're giving out dollar amounts for your savings.

>> Yeah. >> Is that what percentage wise is that coming out? >> She said 10 a.5 plus 15,000

or 15%. >> Yeah. for the no 15,000 for the Roth plus the 3,500 for the HSA a year.

>> A year. Yeah, that'd be right. Okay.

That's $18,000 out of 150.

>> Yeah. >> That's not That's not causing you a problem. That's not causing you a problem. You know what? You know what? You guys are not doing a detailed every dollar budget that the two of you sit down and agree to before the month begins.

You're throwing money in savings and hoping you can live with what's left over. And when chaos hits, you dip back into the savings.

>> Yeah. And usually by the next month we're savings is pretty much where it was before, but it's just

my my husband's just very stressed.

>> Yeah. I heard that three times. You know why he's stressed? Because he doesn't have a plan, not because of the money.

So, if you will start the month before the month begins, get the every dollar budget, download it, we'll give you the premium upgrade for free, and the two of you, both of you sit down and go, "Okay, here's what insurance costs

that comes out of this. Here's what lights cost. Here's what water costs.

Here's what the school lunches cost.

Here's what the grocery store costs." And then we save money.

I think you're going to find you have enough to do all of it >> because you guys are bringing home what what's hitting your account Denise every month? 9,000ish.

>> 10. >> Um 8,641.

>> Something's wrong. What what is coming out of that check? That's only $100,000.

>> Um there's a little bit of savings for a trip that him and my daughter want to do. Um he, you know, obviously >> coming out of his check.

>> No, no, no. afterwards. Um, his check, uh, just insurance cost and then the 10 and a half% for Roth and the 3,500 for

the HSA. That's my >> $18,000. We're 50 down.

>> Yeah, it's like 120 after taxes. So,

yeah, I mean, it should be around 10.

>> No, it's like a h 100,000 after taxes.

Yeah. And so, yeah, you there's some you

got something coming out of your check that's screwing up, too. Are you guys getting a large tax refund?

Um, we do and I throw that into the

emergency fund or into the um >> Yeah, but that's not what No, we don't need a tax refund. That's a savings account with the IRS that pays no interest and they give it to you once a year. Santa Claus does not live in Washington DC. You need to adjust your W TWS >> and uh get the proper amount coming home so that there's no tax refund. That will help your cash flow because you're not bringing home enough. There's something wrong with your home coming home figure. I I I honestly feel like if we weren't

if we like took home the amount that we get in the tax refund every year, I feel like it would be pretty much spot on.

Honestly, >> you have a feeling, but you don't know because y'all don't live on a budget.

You guys have got to do a written detailed plan. You're chaotic and he's

saving money on one side and you're over here trying to keep the family held together with duct tape and bailing wire on the other side because you don't have a freaking plan. You need a plan before

the month begins. Every dollar needs to be addressed and I want to know why I make 150,000 and I'm only getting home with a hundred because that the numbers you're giving me don't add up to that.

So you guys got to get into this stuff and learn where your freaking money's going. then make the proper amount come home and quit hoping that an IRS tax

refund bails you out of your lack of or organization and planning skills. So you

have to manage this like it matters. If you don't make these dollars behave, they are not going to behave and your husband is going to remain stressed out and you're going to remain feeling like, well, we should be able to do this, but it's all that savings. And it's not all that savings. The savings is not the math problem. You've given us the numbers. It's not there.

So, I know where the money's going. It's going to chaos and disorganization.

That's where it's going. If you guys will give every dollar an and assignment every month for the rest of your life, like your life depended on it, and the two of you agree to it, you're going to have all of this angst removed from your

position, the anxiety you're feeling, and the anxiety he's feeling. But you're not going to get rid of it by just tossing these numbers up in the air and trying to juggle them. You're throwing them around like you're a circus act.

And you've got to you got to set them down. Make them everyone behave. I can hear it. I've done this for 30 years. I can hear it in the process. You're using even discussing it with me. So, you can do this. You have the money to be okay.

But you this and I've given you the antidote. Now, the only question is whether you're going to do it or not.

So, go to Every Dollar. We're going to give you the Every Dollar. Help them download that Kelly and get it the premium version and we'll pay for it.

Give it to her as a gift because honey, you can do this. It's very doable. It's very doable. And please don't ever say

we can't be responsible because we have a large family.

>> I don't think she did. >> She didn't. She didn't. >> I was going to say I don't think >> she didn't. But I get that all the time. I hear that Dave, you can't do the Dave Ramsey plan if you have a large family. And then we have people eight kids stand up here and do a debtree screen.

>> So they do it all the time. As a matter of fact, it's the only way you can be responsible with a large family is to be responsible and work a plan. It's the only you don't have an option. It's like

when you have seven kids, you don't have an option of one of them being a brat.

They have to behave. So large families,

the kids, they they don't have none of them are confused that they're the center of the world. But if if you got one or two, one of them can get confused about that. >> So, you know, it goes with the territory. It's a wonderful part of having a large family, but you have to be organized. You know, other thing large families can do, they can take pictures quickly.

They're >> efficient. They're organized. They line up. They line up and little ducks. And

then we take a picture real quick.

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If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead like a rat in a wheel, join one of our free every dollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsay personalities. Rachel Wind's your next one. >> It is uh Monday. >> Oh, there we Monday at noon >> going to show you how to stick to a budget and most people are finding between5 and $10,000 worth of margin

using every dollar so that jumpst starts your get out of debt plan. You really start building wealth and you can ask questions during the live Q&A. Sign up for free. Did I mention it's free at ramseyolutions.com/webinar.

Is the Q&A interesting, Rachel?

>> Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, we get to do a couple of live questions and it's usually about someone's situation or something in every dollar that they're like, "Okay, well, how do I do this or that?" And yeah, so it's very helpful.

>> How's that function? Yeah.

>> Mhm. >> Okay, cool. All right. Adam is with us in Springfield. Hi, Adam. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Uh, I have a couple cart question. Um, I

grew up in a landscape family. I was familyowned. I took over part of my dad's business and my family grew. I

sold it and now I'm starting from scratch and so we're about $5,000 of monthly

income. >> Good. >> We take home. >> Good. Um,

my wife and I, we uh, when I was young,

my father helped me buy a farm and my

wife and I sold it to buy a home and

incurred a lot of capital gains tax.

Uh, our company was running a lot of old trucks. So, to get around the tax, we did uh, 179 and bought a new work truck to replace those before we sold the business. Now we're $61,000 in debt for

that truck. And I know it's stupid. It's crazy. I didn't No excuses.

Um, we're selling that home and buying

another property.

Uh, borrowing 295,000 and we have

180,000 that we can that we have coming

back to us from that home we're selling.

And I don't know what steps we should do because >> Okay. What price range truck do you need to operate the business? It's not the one you have.

>> I don't I don't know exactly. So I we

ran all cash trucks for our first couple of years. >> Yeah. >> That are like5 to $10,000 trucks.

>> Yeah. >> And we still have a couple of those old trucks sitting around. And they were posted. >> But I've start I've started listening to your stuff just in the past week. And my

father used to listen to you years ago when I was a kid. But I started listening to you recently. And I started thinking, I wonder if I should sell that new truck and just pay their repair fees on these old trucks and use them.

>> Yep. >> Um.

>> Yep. So in business, whatever equipment

we need, whether it's me with a microphone or you with a weed eater, whatever equipment we need to operate the business is a valid

investment to cause the business to run.

And the valid investment is I need the minimum reasonable amount to do the job. Um, and I I'll give you

an example. We do a lot of stuff with technology where you're doing stuff with trucks, trailers, and mowers, right?

But, uh, with technology, there's always something that's 10 times more expensive that's fancy.

>> Kind of like a truck.

>> Okay. And uh, so we have a saying around

Ramsey. We're always looking for MF, minimal functional.

>> What's the minimal thing we can buy that's functional and gets the job done?

Because the only reason to buy a

computer is if it makes me more than it

costs. Not because somebody's going to think I have a fancy computer. The only reason for you to buy a truck is that the truck gets this work done. What's the cheapest truck that will get the work done? Because anything past that is

a luxury item and you ought to take your luxury items home. You shouldn't have those at work.

>> Yes, sir. So, I I yes, I would definitely sell this truck. I'd beef those two old ones up, get them going, and then you're probably going to need to buy a little bit better truck later on for cash to get rid of one of those junkers because they're going to start to be unreliable, which means they're not getting the job done. You can't miss a job because of stupid breakdown.

>> Yeah, that's what happened. We had three trucks and we had like one and a half in the shop at a time. We spent 30,000 on repairs last year and that's where I thought, oh, a new truck will make sense with a 5year warranty, 100,000.

>> Yeah. No, it doesn't. But but but moving up out of a $5,000 truck into a 15,000 might make sense.

>> Uhhuh. >> Because of reliability issues only. But again, all we're trying to do here, we're not trying to impress anybody. We're not trying to have a nice truck.

All we're trying to do is get the job done. And so when the old ones are too junky to get the job done, then they're too old to get the job done. when the new one's like six times too fancy to get the job done, then it was ridiculous. And you've already determined that. And so really, you're kind of you it's almost like you need to sell all of them and buy two $15,000

ones.

>> Uhhuh.

>> All I'm trying to do is run the business and keep my overhead down.

>> Yeah, I understand that.

>> There's nothing else motivating me.

>> How many trucks do you need, Adam, for where you guys are right now? >> If they're all running. So right now, right now only one. Um, >> you only need one operator.

>> You know what I would take? You said you had three junkers.

>> Two. >> Two? Yeah. Okay. And they'll bring five or six grand a piece, right? If if they're repaired.

>> Uh, they're pretty old. I think one's probably 4,500. The other one's going to be like 3,000. >> Okay.

All right. So, you get 8,000 bucks there. You sell the truck you're in. put a little money with it from the sale of the house and get about a $15,000 truck and let's go get our work done.

But systematically look at that thing and before it wears out, start saving up the money to buy its replacement or before you buy the number two truck because the business is growing. Save up and buy a used truck. But you don't, we're not trying to make a luxury statement. We're not trying to impress anybody with our truck.

Um I don't even know what my landscaper drives.

All I want knows is that the yard get cut, you know? I mean, come on. So, um, you know, that that's all that matters is did you do the job? And now, if you didn't show up, then I start carrying what you drive cuz something broke, I guess. But anyway, minimal functional, minimal functional that'll get the job done. And that's how you run business.

Everything else is just those of us that are entrepreneurs overspending and using our business as an excuse.

And um so that's a really really good

question, especially from a new listener, Adam. Thank you very much. And I I think you kind of got a good plan here and it sounds like you're going to do very well. You got you got your head dialed in and you had good training from your dad on the business side of things, it sounds like. And so yeah, that's good. I think you're going to go in a great direction there. Judson's in Michigan. Hey, Judson. What's up?

>> Hey Dave. Uh it's great to talk with you. I've actually kind of I feel like I've grown up on your stuff. Uh my parents have been longtime listeners uh out of Southern California. We moved to Michigan in '98. I am actually in the midst of selling my home uh and moving

to the great state of Tennessee where you reside. So >> great. >> Um that being that being said, um I

don't actually have a place for me to move my family to. Uh my wife's a horse

trainer, so I am stuck in this situation where I'm trying to figure out um land

value. >> You have a place to move your family to. You don't have a place to move the horses to.

>> Yes, both. Right. Well, I mean, I can end up in a rental situation.

>> No, you could end up in a family home and the horses are somewhere else.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. But horse trainers get confused about what family is. Horses aren't family. They're a business.

>> That's That's true.

>> They are lunch. >> You and George. >> You and George Campbell with the horses.

>> I didn't say sell the horses. I just said in order >> Yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Right quick.

What's your question? >> If I want to stay married, I will keep the horses. >> Yeah. I didn't say get rid of them.

>> I just don't know. I don't know if you have to own the land that they're sitting on.

>> Um I I'd like to. I mean, I know you'd like to. Uh we're we're managers of of

of a of a a decent sized property right now. Um we're we're looking to move to Tennessee and I'm not seeing prices match value. So it puts me in the situation where my dad is willing to cosign with me on a >> Yeah, that part where you're a longtime listener, you and your dad, and you want to cosign. Not a chance, dude. Not a chance. You're buying something you can't afford because you're trying to do something you shouldn't be doing. You guys have got to think through this a little more clearly.

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[Applause] [Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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>> Michael's in Raleigh. Hey, Michael. How are you?

>> I'm doing well, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, me and my wife are on baby step 2.

Um, we started out with around 101,000 in debt and we are down to about 50.

>> Way to go. >> Um, yeah. Um, >> how long did that take?

>> We we we we had about 49,000 in cash

savings that we dumped at half of it.

>> Oh, so it took 10 minutes. Okay.

>> We are. >> Yeah. So, but it was actually a little

less than 49. Probably about 40. It was like 46 or so. >> Mhm. What's the What is the remaining debt on?

>> So, the remaining debt is 46,000 in

student loans and then we have 4,000 on a personal loan. >> Okay. Good. All right. And what's your

household income, sir?

>> It's about 150,000.

>> Good. Good. Excellent. Okay.

>> Nice.

And that's part of my question because I work full-time. My wife stays at home with our kids. Um I'm in engineering. Um

I started a side business to help assist

with the debt. Uh the problem with that is been working as much as I I'm around 120

without the side business and I'm I'm able to throw most of this money from the side business at the debt to try to pay it off quicker. But the problem with that is there's days where I don't even hardly get to see my son and it's like an emotional thing for me >> and I'm wondering how to navigate that.

The sacrifice and >> of not seeing him, you know.

>> How how old is he? >> He's working. >> He's five. So, he just started school.

So, you know, a lot of times when I get off work, I go straight >> and I just cut grass. I just cut grass like crazy to just keep paying.

>> How much How much are you making on that on the side hustle? >> 30. You said 120 and 30, right?

>> 30. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. 30. 30. >> The 150 is the total. Oh, it's total.

I'm sorry. I got you. I got you.

>> Yeah. So, the um but how long have you

been doing this?

>> This is our first year doing it. It just kind of skyrocketed. >> No, I mean h how long have you cuz the what you told me while ago was you just pulled the money out of savings and threw it at the debt and you really haven't paid off any debt much except that.

>> Yeah. Well, I've been I've been doing this about 3 weeks, but it's been because this is new. Uh because >> Okay. >> Our son just started school, so I was at home with him, but now that he's in school, I don't even hardly see him due to working in the evenings as well, basically. So, >> all right. Um >> So, I was home with him during the day.

>> Yeah. Well, you have 40 You have $50,000

in debt. You're making $30,000 a year extra to throw at it, right?

>> Yeah. Okay. Um, what do you owe on your

car?

>> Nothing. We have no car payments, >> student loans, and personal loans. >> I know, but I'm just checking. What are they worth?

>> Uh, about 50,000 in cars. We We own a

Jeep Wrangler and a Tundra, but they're paid for. >> Mhm.

>> Okay. >> And the Tundra's for work. Um,

we paid the Jeep off with the lump sum.

>> Yeah. What's the Tundra worth?

>> Uh, probably about 12,000.

>> So, the other car, the Jeep is worth

38,000,000.

>> No, yeah, I'm sorry. I got the maths wrong. It's worth about Kelly Blue Book like 25.

>> Okay. >> To 28 somewhere around there.

>> All right. Well, what I'm fishing for is

is there a way to short circuit and do this sooner than a year? Number one, um,

you know, Raleigh, North Carolina, you can live on a lot less than $120,000 a year. So, your budget's not tightened down enough yet. You need to quit eating out, quit going on vacation, live on nothing. Beans and rice, rice and beans.

You've only been doing this three whole weeks. So, uh, it's not like you've really stretched out there yet. Okay.

So, um, yeah, but I I think you crank your budget on down tight, tight, tight, tight, because the more you crank it down, the faster you get out of debt.

Agreed. So, I'd love to see a situation where you could see your way to being done in a year without selling the cars.

If I can't, I'm probably selling her car

so I can be done in a year so I can see my son cuz I want to be done in a year.

You can do anything for a year. >> Yeah. I was going to say, Michael, I feel like you guys could throw 3 to 4,000 at this, get it 40 and then and

then all your stuff on top of it. You guys could do this in a year.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm that's what I'm projecting and >> yeah, >> I'm still going hard at it. It's just uh

>> Honey, you're not still doing anything. You've been doing it a whole three weeks.

>> Yeah. >> You know, it's not it's not like you've been doing this for two years. Okay. I mean, you've been it's a whole three weeks >> now. The thing is, um anytime you're

going to win at something, you're going to pay a price to winning at it. What you are doing is you are investing some time now so that you have the rest of your whole life to have all the time in the world.

You know, so today what I do with my kids or my grandkids is anything I want anywhere in the world I want because I can both afford the time and the money

>> because decades ago I paid a price.

>> But when I was five, >> when you were five, when you were five, I was probably gone. Your mother was a single mom. >> Yeah. >> And you lived through it.

>> You had you had something to tell your counselor later. But um >> but the uh >> abandonment was not one of the issues.

>> Yeah. It's good. >> I mean, when I'm home, I'm home, too, by the way. I turn off stupid television.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Don't tell me I'm spending quality time with the family and Netflix is on.

That's That's not the That's the definition of not quality time with the family. So, anyway, it's three whole weeks. You're going to be fine. I think it's worth the price you're paying. And I think when you look back on it at the end of a decade, at the end of two decades, at the end of three decades, you're going to say, "It's the best year of investment I ever made in my son was

for me to get my family back to square where we could eat again and get away from this garbage and this mess so we could breathe. And now we're able to do anything. We're living like no one else so that later we can live like no one else. We work like no one else so that later we can work like no one else. We drive a piece of crap so that later on I can drive anything I want to drive.

>> Yeah, cuz Michael, if you had called us 3 weeks ago before you guys paid off the car, I'd probably tell you just to sell the car. >> Yeah, I think I might >> and put and put the extra money towards this debt. So, I would Yeah. drive a crappy car so that you can be home.

>> I would Well, I'd let you I'd keep the Trundor. You're using it to pull the lawnmowers. I'd let her drive a crappy car right now. >> And then you guys save after that and you guys can upgrade and car. But it's kind of >> but I'm going to I'm going to take everything out of this budget in the

name of every time I take a dollar out, it's a dollar sooner. I get to not be doing this. >> Think about how much you make an hour and if you can save that, that's one less hour you have to work, right? And you kind of multiply that in your head.

Yeah. >> That'll make you cut lifestyle. >> I'm cutting this. I'm cutting that. I'm cutting this. I'm cutting that. And I don't really care what other people think. But um you're you're um you know,

yes, you're a good dad. You love your kid. If you want to see your kid, that's a good thing. You should. That means you're a good daddy. And we need good daddies in America today. There's not enough of them. So, thank you for being that guy. But you, you know, for a short

period of time, you can turn the heat up for the good of your family's long play.

And you that's you ask how to deal with the emotions. That's how I dealt with the emotions. When we started Ramsay, I came in to work at 7 a.m. I got home at 11. I never saw a kid for two years.

I mean, we I was there on birthdays. I was there some on some weekends and all Sundays. I did take Sundays off, but I worked like a maniac to get this thing up and running. And today, this thing

allows our whole family >> generationally to do whatever we want to do. >> And I'm not a child psychologist, too, but I'm like, you don't really remember 5 years old. You know what I mean? I think it's harder to be away when you have >> Well, it's harder on him than it is a kid. >> That's right. That's true. That's true. Yeah. So, I can I I relate to his his feelings. I'm glad you have those feelings. Means you're a good man.

>> Um but but don't treat it like it's

>> don't don't let the drama of those feelings override the actual facts of the situation, which are that as a great

man, a great husband, a great dad, you are pouring on the coals to get your family on a solid foundation so you don't have to deal with it ever again. >> And if your wife is able to do something too to bring in some income, right? I mean like all of you guys as a team together, how can we pay this off as fast as possible? >> Now that he started school, maybe there's something she can do.

That's not a bad plan at all. Anything we can do like this to short shorten the time of the pain and then the pain becomes more and more and more worth it because then you never have to do it again as long as you stay on these principles and don't go take out another truck or something, you know?

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Brady is in Mobile. Hi

Brady. How are you?

>> Good. How are you guys doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome. Thank you all for taking the call. I'm huge fan and have been for a few years. >> Thank you. >> Um, so I have a two-part question, but

if we can, I'll ask the first part and then if you feel we have time, maybe we can get to the second part. >> Okay. >> Um, so I'll set the stage. So, uh, my

wife and I when we got married, we started traveling in the oil field working and, uh, started out making $20

an hour or whatever and, you know, have moved to this job, moved to that job all over the country about eight times. Uh, we're 27 now and we started when we were about 19. And, uh, in that, you know,

comes moving and keeping and we have kids. We have two children. So, we've been keeping them away from, you know, other family as well. not on purpose, but just the nature of the job, traveling with work. Um, so I have in-laws that are sometimes seem a little bitter about that. Um, but the first

overall question I guess is at what point because I can stay home and make 50 60 maybe 70,000 a year doing what I do, but if I travel like I am now, um,

I'm making about 200,000 right now. So, you know, obviously significant difference. And the question is where where is that fine line with with greed

>> of just chasing money to chase money?

Just make more money to make more money. Is that what you're saying?

>> Yes, ma'am. Um, and I'm wondering where that where that switches cuz, you know, like the caller before, I have, you know, I'm feel like I'm as good a father as any or I definitely try to be. And, uh, right now I'm gone from home about four days a week and they're actually, we just moved home last year. And, uh, so they're staying at home and I'm traveling back and forth, you know, every three or four days.

>> Yeah. That's a hard lifestyle to sustain for a long period of time with a family in general. Right. >> How old are the kiddos?

>> Uh, four and six months.

>> Okay. And um your wife is at home and you are

traveling and that affects the in-laws.

How? >> So, and I apologize, I got a little confusing there. So, for up until December of last year, we were traveling and we were on the road and we just moved back home. Uh oh.

>> 9 months ago. >> Okay. So, for the last nine months, the in-laws, if they want to see the kids, just get up and come over there.

>> Correct. Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, they've been able to do that.

I hope >> they have. >> Okay. Cool. And if you were traveling, you were in another city, you were there for weeks on end, were you not before before December?

>> Uh, yes, sir. Correct. >> So if you're in XYZ city for Yeah. If you're in XYZ city for four or five weeks with the family, the in-laws could come there, >> right? I agree. >> Yeah. So I think the in-laws are the they have their own issues. They have their own issues. >> I don't think his question was about the in-laws. >> Well, he they have accused him of being greedy. I think that's between the lines. Oh, is that what it is?

>> Not verbally, but you know, it's one of those things you can't pinpoint. Yeah, >> we don't get to see it's not convenient for us to come see the kids when we want to, the way we want to, because of the way you work. So, we're going to run down the way you work. Yeah, >> exactly. Yes, sir. >> That's what I heard.

>> I was reading between the lines.

>> Okay. The um Yeah. So, the the thing you

got to go back to is this. There is um Rachel and I did a book on parenting and

one of the things we said to teach kids is contentment because godliness with

contentment is great gain.

And a lot of people get really confused about the subject of contentment. They think ambition and contentment are on the same line and ambition is on one end and contentment is on the other. Um I

beg to differ. I'm highly ambitious and I'm very content. They're not on the same spectrum. They they're not one end of the line or the other end. They're different lines.

>> And so, um, you can be a good dad, uh,

you can be a great dad and, uh, be working your tail end off. Um, as a matter of fact, generally great dads do that. Um and so uh um you know uh greed

is um is not an amount of money. It is

not it it is a state of your heart and why you're chasing the money. If you're saying for a couple of years I'm going to burn the oil so that I don't have to the rest of my life. Burn the oil.

That's a good metaphor for you. But u I'm going to I'm going to turn up the heat. No, we don't want to do that either over there. But Right. Right.

>> Whatever it is, we're going to work really hard for a couple years so that we can make different choices later.

>> That's paying a price to win. That's going in the weight room and lifting weights so during the football game I can actually knock someone over.

>> Okay. I'm paying a price here to win.

There's a amount of work that has to be done to lay a foundation to go somewhere. If that's what you're doing, that's ambition. That is not greed.

Greed is un unbridled ambition for the

wrong reasons where you think more money

is going to make you happy. You think more money is the end all. You think money is a god that you're worshiping.

In instead you can say I want some more money not because I want more money but because of what it does for me and my family. I want to change my family tree.

I don't want these kids to have to worry about food or shoes. So, I'm going or or

college or the first car or whatever it

is. I mean, we're going to get in a position that we can make choices and money don't cause us to. I want to I used to work for a guy. He said, "I want to make enough money that I can read the menu left to right instead of starting with the price >> right on the right side.

in coaching people all these years people that ask a question like you asked about greed are never greedy people >> greedy people would never ask the question because it doesn't occur to them that their that their worldview is skewed and screwed up instead you're actually weighing out my values I'm spending a lot of time. I'm gone four days. I got littles and this is

bothering me. Well, a guy that asks that question does not is not a greedy person by definition.

>> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> And so greed is not going to be your issue. Now, do you want to adjust some of your goals and your values and say, "Okay, I'm going to work on my career to where in the next 18, 24 months, I can be home and make a hundred instead of being on the road and making 200 or instead of coming home and making 50, >> right?

>> I don't know what that looks like or how you do that, but I'm going to start to have that goal where I can come home and make >> Yeah, I was going to say being gone three to four days a week, that's hard with little ones." And so, um, >> unless you see an end to it very quickly, you say, "I'm going to do it for one more year >> and then I'm going to take and then I'm I'm by then I'm going to have a landing pad where I can come back home and and I'm going to cut my income in half, but I'm going to be home." >> Yeah.

And you guys are still so young, Brady, that >> there's there's an off-ramp like maybe you guys take a season and you're off the road and then the kids hit middle school and you're like, you know what? I'm I'm I'm going to shift back on and turn it back up and do this new thing for two to three years and then you're done. Like, do you know what I mean?

It's not at all. I mean, I've done that with my career. I pulled back some after the third kid and you know what I mean? Like you can make adjustments um as life as life comes and uh I don't

know there's a level of that flexibility that I don't want you to feel like you're stuck and you make a decision.

You're not stuck. And so if >> and you're not greedy. >> No. >> 100% chance you're not greedy. Okay. So,

um, just because somebody's a travel agent for guilt trips, that doesn't mean you're greedy. Okay. So, uh, you're you're But I would have a plan.

>> Yeah. Have a plan about it. >> Well, this is not where it starts to bother you and bother me is if it's in perpetuation. If it's forever and ever.

Let's have a plan where we're not doing this our whole life. We're doing this for a period of time to never have to do it again. That kind of thing.

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buying Selling a home in the middle of all the drama that is the real estate market right now requires that you don't participate in the drama. But instead, you understand that facts are your friends. So, the facts are that we are now sitting at a 5.8%

interest rate for a 15-year fixed.

That's a fact. It's down a little. It's a fact that house prices have stayed almost identical for the last three months. The median household, the median house price in America today is about 440,000.

And that's what it has been for that period of time. It's not moved much at all. That's a fact. The fact is is that

we have over a million houses on the market right now. The largest uh in

largest inventory since 2019 in the last few months. And yet

demand is still higher than inventory which is hold causing prices to hold and continue to go up in many areas. John is

in California. Hey John, how are you?

>> I'm great Dave. How are you guys doing?

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, I am um give you a little background. Uh my wife and I are both retired and we're struggling and trying

to decide what we would like to do with

what we've accumulated over our lifetime and specifically your viewpoint in regards to IRA

conversions to Roth. Um, just to give you a few numbers, we've got about half

a million dollars in liquid mutual funds in bank account and we've got about $4

million in IRA accounts. Um, 1 million

of that is already in a Roth and 3

million is in a traditional IRA.

And I've been looking at a bunch of numbers and reading a bunch of things.

And what I'm trying to decide on is is

it better for us to try to do some

conversions between now and when we reach R&D at age 73, which is about 7

years from now, or just let our

traditional IRA grow. And my concern is

that if I just let it grow during our

lifetime, you know, the R&Ds are going to be six-digit numbers.

>> Yep. >> This is not money we need to live on. We

live with in our means on just fixed income and have been able to, you know,

accumulate a lot and not um spend anything. And so now I just don't want to make a mistake with what we've been blessed to accumulate. That's right.

>> I'm curious what your um >> viewpoints are about paying, you know, what I calculated to be about 1.2 or 3

million over the next five or six years doing step conversions to >> Roth. >> Or just letting you know our three adult

children inherit multi-millions in a

traditional IRA someday.

>> Honestly, the answer the answer to your question I stumbled into backwards. I did not I was not smart enough to do it on purpose but I accidentally did a brilliant thing uh to be very clear and the brilliant thing was that early on I converted everything to Roth you and I are the same age I'm getting ready to be 65 >> okay and everything is in Roth and the

reason that ends up I did it just because I wanted the tax-free growth

that's simp that's the only reason I did it and and so I started converting stuff many years ago and anytime time anything popped up that was not that was traditional, I immediately made it into Roth. Now the result is exactly what you're facing and you've analyzed this very well. You've done a good job. The you have two problems with the traditional that are mammoth.

Problem number one is the RMDs. The required minimum distribution is what that stands for for those of you that don't know. John does. And uh that means at 73 they require you to begin to distribute traditional because they are

bent on getting their taxes.

And so they make you take that that has never have been taxed yet or and that is not tax-free and begin to distribute it.

And as you said with $3 million it's going to be over $100,000. And so that $100,000 comes out it's 100% taxable and

so it's going to be reduced by 37%. or

whatever whatever the number is 30 30% whatever it ends up being depending on what your other incomes are but the um

yeah that that's problem number one is you're forced into RMDs you do not have RMDs as John knows on Roth and so I

don't have any required minimum distributions facing me when I hit 73 the second problem is that the traditional IRA or traditional 401k when it becomes

an inherited IRA, naming your child as the beneficiary, it goes to them or your

wife and then later your your child as a secondary beneficiary, however that works out. Um uh when they get that

money under, uh the Biden Secure Act,

they are now required to liquidate that fund and pay taxes on all of it over a 10-year period of time.

>> So 300,000 So 300,000 a year on three million. Oh, by the way, it's not going to be 3 million. It's going to be 9

million cuz you're going to live a while.

Okay. And you're not touching it.

>> I'm on the same page. That's >> So, those are the two those are the two problems. And so, that makes me It's pay

me now, pay me a lot more later.

And so, I'm going to start working out of this pretty quickly. Uh, I'm going to use uh a substantial part of that 500k

in mutual funds and uh after tax investments over there and I'm going to use that and move as much of the 3 million as I can this year, >> right? >> And then I'm going to as much as I, you

know, and then I'm going to use the 3 million what's left. I'm going to pay taxes out of it as I do it each year.

and it's going to be a lesser amount when the smoke clears because of the stinking taxes.

>> Uh, and then it's going to grow completely taxfree from then on, not be subject to RMDs. You're back in control of your nest egg. The stinking government's not got their hooks, meat hooks in you, and they don't get to hook your kid in the next generation when you leave it to them. So, you leave a Roth IRA taxfree. They can cash it out that

day, the day you die, and they pay no taxes on it.

And so because here's the thing, you you're sitting on $4 million, three million in in this thing and if it's in good mutual funds and you're uh by the time you hit RMDs, it's going to be 6 million. It will have doubled and and seven years later when you're 80 and if you're in good health, your probability of living to 80 from 65 is very high

statistically. Okay?

>> So uh then that 6 million is going to be 12 million.

And if it's all sitting there, hasn't paid taxes on it yet, except for the RMD portion, it's going to be substantial taxes. So, yeah, >> in in terms of dollars. So, it sucks right now, but it's going to triple suck later.

I would do it. >> Yeah, you're you're you're telling me what I was hoping you were going to tell me. And my wife is isn't on the same page because she doesn't get excited about paying, >> you know. Well, you know, you want to pay you want to pay taxes on 12 million or three.

>> Yeah, it's a good way of putting it.

>> You know, it's just a matter of when you're going to do it. Somebody's going to do it someday. >> And if you guys don't use this money and it's invested at an average of 10%, it's going to double every seven years.

And so, you're you're going to get hammered. >> Like the last caller, changing the family tree and the next generation.

>> You already have changed your family tree, by the way. You guys have done great. I assume you started with nothing.

Yeah, we're everyday millionaires.

Longtime listeners, first-time caller for you, but my wife's a retired teacher and I'm a retired CPA. So, I love it.

We've been been doing this for a while.

>> Two of the top five categories of people who become millionaires, teachers and accountants of the top heard anything.

>> Yeah, you did it. You did it. You did it. You guys are incredible.

You've done a good analysis on it, John. You did have your facts straight. You know what you're talking about. You're just trying to think it through.

And if I woke up in your shoes, I would use the majority of that 500 today. And that would move about 2 million of the four of the three out and then the other million that's laying there. I'm going to chunk it out over about three years and just take the hit, take the pain and then be done with it. And >> is there a is there a limit for how much you can convert per year?

>> Nope. >> You just got to you can do it all, but the taxes are pay taxes and you're he's got so much he's going to have bracket creep anyway. He's going to max it out every year anyway. So there's no way to avoid his bracket creep.

So there's no way to stage it actually. That makes sense. So I'm just going to rip the band-aid off. And it it sucks.

welcome to tax law.

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[Applause]

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[Music] In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions, you can watch this show be broadcast every day. We're on the glass from 1 to 4 central. Also in the lobby is the debtree stage. Brian is on it. Hey Brian, how are you? >> I'm good. Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve, sir. Where do you live? >> I live in Martinsburg, West Virginia.

>> Cool. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off, sir? >> About $44,000.

>> Cool. How long did that take? >> Two years. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that two years? >> Uh, it went from 80,000 to approximately 139,000. Wow. What do you do for a living? >> Uh, I am a program analyst uh as a

federal contractor assisting DHS.

>> Wow. Okay, cool. In Martinsburg, West Virginia. >> Yeah, it's about an hour and a half west of DC. So, nice. Yep.

>> Okay. Gotcha. All right. Very cool. It's a pretty area, too. >> It's very nice. Love it. >> Very cool. So, what kind of debt was the 44K? >> Uh, it about 30,000 was student loans

and then about 14,000 was credit cards.

>> Good for you. How old are you?

>> I am going to be 37 on Saturday.

>> Good for you. Happy birthday.

>> Thank you. >> All right. Neat, neat, neat. Well, way to go, man. >> Thank you. >> So, what gets you started on this whole Ramsay thing uh two years ago?

>> Well, um about three years ago, I closed

on a house. Um I basically drained my

savings account. Um kind of wanted to keep up with the Joneses. Was not up with the Ramsay stuff at that point. Um, and that really acted as a forcing function because as soon as I closed on the house, I was renting it out to someone. They ended up not paying the rent. Uh, being late, yeah, being late on the rent, uh, very consistently.

>> Um, so when they finally moved out after a couple months, um, it was the real deal. It was do or die. I didn't have any margin for error. So, I needed a solution.

I knew that you were the guy when it came to personal finance. So, I started googling you and I just started breathing Ramsay, waking up, listening to it, hitting the shower, listening to the Ramsay show, doing laundry, listening to Ramsay, you know, in the car it just living it and just making that a cornerstone of my life. >> Very cool. Very cool.

That's neat.

>> Uh, well, Spotify binging, but >> Spotify, excuse me, wrong ad. Yeah, >> same thing. Yeah. >> Yeah, binging nevertheless. Yeah.

So, no book or no FPU class, just just straight up Spotify. >> Just just straight up straight up Spotify. >> I like it. Good for you. >> That's awesome. Okay. What was the biggest thing that helped you through that journey, would you say, that you did that you were like, if you went out of debt, this is what you got to do, >> right? Um, well, really it was just

about finding a plan. Um, and and

limiting the extraneous expenses like, you know, maybe you got to stay in from the restaurant uh more nights per week.

you know, maybe you got to go with a beater beater car. Like I got like a 20-year-old Hyundai Elantre that I still roll with. You know, it's got 139,000 miles on it, but I have no intent to trade it in because it still works for me, you know. Um, so just like being mindful of just the day-to-day, those small decisions and just limiting those, you know, pennies that you're you're throwing into the ether >> um if you're not aware of it and thinking about it.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. >> I mean, it it adds up to 44,000 in two years. I mean, >> yeah, absolutely. Um, and you know, I

mean, the the student loans, I probably started out with 35,000 in student loans when I graduated college, I only paid off maybe like 5,000 of that before I hit the Ramsay plan. So, like when I got Gazelle Intense, like there was nothing that was going to stop me. I was throwing like 2,000 a month at at, you know, my credit cards and my student loans. And that was just like what I

did. That was like the biggest thing in my life going on at that moment. And I'm so glad it's all behind me because it was so worth it just buckling down like that. >> You had an oh crap moment and you went all in. >> Exactly. >> H how long how many months were you in before you

kind of started going, "Okay, I'm no longer afraid. I'm now getting excited.

This is going to work." >> Yeah.

Um, I would say it was probably like

after that year mark after I was a year into it and I saw, you know, I saw my student loans probably hit uh cuz, you

know, two years ago it was probably at like $30,000. When I saw them hit like 14,000 maybe like a year ago, I was like, "Okay, I can see the end in sight and like this is actually going to work, >> you know?" >> Yeah. >> And I'm going to be free. >> Yeah. The math was telling you before that, but the emotions kicked in when you hit about the halfway point.

>> Oh, absolutely. >> Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. >> So, great. What was the hardest part of the two years for you?

>> H the hardest part of those two years?

>> Uh, I would just say like just resisting

the temptation to live like, you know, everyone else, you know, just like, >> you know, friends want to pull you out like, "Hey, come on out with us." or you know uh hey you want to go on this vacation or you know um just different

things or you know different you know there's always like ads online that are tempting you to buy stuff you don't need subscriptions you don't need so just saying no to all that um and and saying no to like some of the flashy stuff in 21st century America was you know it was just tough to like you know stay the course and and stay tough um but it got easier over time you know as you get that practice under your belt You know, it just becomes like momentum. So, >> yeah. More normal. You're used to it.

Yeah. >> It's almost now when somebody looks at it and rolls their eyes or looks at you and smirks, you kind of smirk to yourself and go, "You have no idea, >> right? >> I got I got this." >> Exactly. >> I got this. I'm done. Y >> Yeah. You truly had an I have had it moment. You really did. >> Absolutely. >> And it was It started out fear-based and it ended joy based. That's cool.

>> Absolutely. I couldn't be more thankful.

I mean, you guys have changed my life. Seriously, >> you changed your life. We just talked.

Proud of you, man. proud of you.

Congratulations. Congratulations.

>> Were there people in your life cheering you on during it? Did people know what you were doing or did you kind of keep it on the down low? >> Um, I was kind of selective about who I told, you know, I would tell people at church, you know, they were cheering me on, you know, big Ramsay fans. Told my family, uh, my immediate family, mom and dad, they were definitely cheering me on and stuff. >> Um, you know, um, not a whole lot of

skepticism out there, um, from the people that I knew. Um, but you know, I did recognize that this was my kind of deal. This was my thing to focus on. So, I wasn't really that chatty about who I shared it with.

I just kind of buckled down and it was just kind of like full steam ahead. Like, this has to be my focus because I was just so sick and tired of doing things the old way. Like, you know, the quality of life that I have right now, just what, two months after paying off all my debt, like it's immeasurably better than it was before I paid off all my debt. >> Amen.

>> You know, >> so good. Cuz financially and would you say emotionally? Do you feel like you've shifted feeling like oh my gosh I don't owe anyone anything now? >> It's a huge weight off my back.

I mean I I feel like I can I mean I don't want to say do anything but like the options in my life are so much greater. Like you know I was working uh >> let's let's see I was working like two side hustles and I was renting out a room in my tiny townhouse while I was paying down this debt. >> Now I just live with my new cat. Kind of bought him as a gift after I got out of this debt.

>> The debtree cat. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah, exactly. I was able to drop one of my freelance clients. I do some writing on the side. Um, you know, so now I've got like just the one freelance client, live with my cat, you know, just live by my house by myself in my little townhouse and like it's all worked out.

So awesome. >> Yeah, it's it's great. It's just like so much less stress, >> so much less to worry about. Um, and you

know, the Ramsay way just like really helped me focus on like what's important and how to live a more fulfilling life.

So, praise God, man. I'm proud of you.

Awesome. Very, very well done.

>> Very well done. And I'm sure your parents are proud of you since they were cheering you on and watched you do this whole thing. Very cool. >> Definitely. My dad's an accountant, so he's definitely proud. For >> sure. Sure. >> Yeah. >> He got it dialed in immediately. Yeah, I like it. >> Yes, sir. >> Brian from West Virginia. $44,000

paid off in two years, making 80 all the way up to 139. Busting it to get out.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. Three, two, one. I'm debtree.

Yeah.

Yeah.

>> You know, Rachel, when a young a young single guy like that does this stuff, uh it is in a sense it's harder for them

>> because there's no one to hold them accountable. In another sense, it's easier for them because they don't have to talk somebody else into it. They just go do it. >> That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And so you got you got a little bit of advantage, a little bit of disadvantage when you're going at it. But he dialed it in. Went for it. Went straight down the line. Boom. Boom. Boom. >> Well, it's just no crap. He's just like just going to do it. Two years be done.

>> Just just matter of fact. Just do it.

Matter of fact, that's how it works.

>> So great. >> Well done, sir. Well done.

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Our

[Music] scripture of the day, James 1, 2, and three. Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.

Benjamin Franklin said, "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself." Ethan is in Texas. Hey

Ethan, what's up?

>> How you doing, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, I'm 23 and I'm working as a security officer in the oil field. Uh, making about 874 a week after tax and I I just

I struggle with a few things. Primarily saving money cuz I'm just not used to it. This is the most I've ever made and it's more than I could make in town. I actually work pretty far outside of town. have to drive and uh you know most I can make back there is 15 16 an hour

but I'm not really content with with the

where I'm at. You know I've gone pretty much as high as I can. They want me to be a supervisor now but it comes with a $10 an hour pay cut and >> well that's a great promotion.

>> Jeez. >> Yeah. Our our site supervisors they make the same as everybody else and it's different for every site. So, where I'm at, I get paid 8day 74, but if I go be a

supervisor, they cut it dramatically.

Um, but I'm making pretty good money,

you know, for someone my age, I think.

And I I just struggle with saving it.

You know, I I have some debt from when I was 18. I didn't know about interest rates. Got some credit cards with 30% interest, and I've been paying those off following your snowball month.

>> How much is your car payment?

>> My car, remember? I actually own my car.

It's a old Lincoln my grandfather gave me, but it it I have to make a lot of repairs on it. You know, just this month, I've probably spent 2,000 buying parts. >> Okay. Do you Did you say you had housing furnished?

>> Yes. My uncle has been gracious enough to let me come up here and live with him. So, I have pretty much zero bills besides gas, car insurance, and my phone. >> Okay.

All right. So, the problem is you're not telling your money what to go, where to go. Instead, you're wondering where it went.

>> Yeah, pretty much.

>> Yeah. So, being able to control because it's probably what around three grandish a month.

>> Yeah. Just about 3,000 >> is what you're bringing home before. Yeah. After tax. After taxes.

>> Yes. After tax and after I pay everything, it's 3,96.

>> Okay. >> After I pay everything I have to.

>> Okay. When you say pay everything you have to, meaning your phone, insurance, all of that. >> Yeah. fuel everything that I need to >> okay >> you know exist.

>> Yeah. So the remaining Ethan is again you just need a pretty detailed budget to know exactly where that money is going to go and what what it's going to do. How much credit card debt do you have left to pay off?

I that that's another issue is I've I've paid it off everything I can find, but a lot of it's been sold off to collection agencies and I end up not finding out

about it until they finally send me a court order suing me because I never get any calls or letters or anything about it. So, I think it's around 4,000 total.

I have three left I know of, but there's a lot that I just don't know who holds the debt. >> Have you Have you pulled your credit report? Do you know what's outstanding?

>> Uh, no, I haven't. >> Okay. So, I would do that. >> That'll give you some insight into who currently owns it and how to get in touch with them and >> begin to get balances on those things and settle them. You could probably settle them for what you originally owed real easily.

>> Yeah, I've done that several times with the ones I've had. >> Good. >> I think I sold one was 3,000 down to I think 800. >> So, it's that's working out for me.

>> Yeah. So, you know how to do that. That's good. Okay. So basically, um,

unless you're giving a lot of money away, you're spending a lot of money on food. I mean, on fun.

>> Yeah. I I I I have a habit to buy and sell guitars. You know, I I buy them a lot. You know, I spend $1,000 here.

>> Usually I make a profit, but sometimes they sit around for months at a time and I end up letting them go for a loss. Some I make profit on, some I don't.

>> And then Yeah. Food as well. >> I think we found the hole in the bucket.

>> Yeah. How many guitars do you currently have right now that you're wanting to sell? >> Right. >> Right now that I'm selling, I have six.

>> Okay. So, that'll that'll help.

>> Did you say guitars or cars?

>> Guitars. >> Guitars. >> Oh, >> music. Okay. >> Yeah. I'm a player, so if I buy, sell, fix them up, and flip them. It's just they're hard to get rid of sometimes.

>> Yeah. That's the hole in the bucket.

Okay. Because you're you're losing more money than you're making on that, and that's eating up what would have been savings.

because you're not paying attention to it. You're paying attention to the guitar, but not the business of flipping.

>> So, if you're going to if you're going to buy and sell more than one a year, you're going to start treating it like it's a business and being very detailed about what you pay for it versus what you spend on it versus what you sell it for. And you need to make a profit

every time.

Okay? And otherwise, you got to quit screwing with this cuz it's just become an expensive hobby.

And you know, guitars are fine. There's nothing wrong with them. Not evil, but they're not an investment.

So, it's just a it's a small business idea as it is right now. You with me?

Are you there?

>> Yes, I am. I just listen.

>> Okay. Yeah. I I mean, you you've identified where the money's going because you got $3,000 a month you can't account for and we just found it. I think it's leaning against the wall.

>> Yeah, it's it's definitely definitely been an issue that I've noticed. So, I I

think we put you on every dollar, get you on the budget, we we'll give it to you, and you start spending every dollar

on the app before the month begins.

Here's how much I'm going to have for gasoline. Here's what my phone costs.

Here's what I'm going to have for food.

Here's what I'm going to have for fun and entertainment. Here's what I'm going to spend on guitars. Here's what I'm going to put in savings. Execute that.

And then the more you pull out of that budget to throw at this debt to get it paid off when you see it when you finally pull your credit report and know that extra margin goes toward the debt.

Doesn't go to guitars. It goes and sell those guitars. That'll bring in some cash to help you pay off some of this debt, too. >> You probably got $4,000 worth of guitars laying there to sell. So, yeah. Yeah.

Keep it keep something cool. Keep one or two that's cool to play. I'm good with that. I got issue with that. That's not killing you. But this exercise of not being intentional and treating it like a business and paying close attention to every dollar, that's what's eating your lunch. Eric is with us in Chicago. Hi,

Eric. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Thanks for having me on.

>> Sure. What's up? >> So, my father uh passed away this year

and he left my mother and I with uh a

substantial amount of money. So, he left us with 12 million. Um, I received 4.1

million in cash and the rest went to my mother. >> Wow. >> Uh, currently currently that money is my money 4.1 million is sitting in a money market account which is uh making 4.59%

interest. >> So I'm making about 14 to 16k a month

off of interest with that.

>> Mhm. >> And my question is I want to buy a house

and I don't know how much I should spend

on a house. make a year.

>> Um, well, right now I'm not working.

>> Why?

>> I have a hard time with work. Um, it's hard for me to keep a job. I have ADHD.

So, and I I I felt like I haven't found my calling either. So, it's it's just hard for me. I'm still trying to figure that out. Believe it or not, >> I'm 38.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So, I have that. So right now, you know, it's just the income I'm getting is just from the money market and then

um you know, so I want to buy their house and I don't know how. >> If this money allows you to not deal with your ADHD and your career issues, as a result, this money has become a curse, not a blessing.

You have got to deal with those things for your own sake and for your own dignity.

becoming a trust fund baby and saying it's because I couldn't work because of ADHD is not going to be good for your mental health long term.

>> Yeah. >> So, I would prefer you pretend like this money doesn't exist and go earn a living, sir, for your sake.

>> I think you'll feel better. >> I want to know how I should The thing is, I also want to know how I should invest this money because this money >> you just drove right past that, didn't you? You don't have any intention of doing what I just said, do you?

>> No, I do. I just want to invest it as well so I can make money off of it also.

Okay. You know, >> I think that's good. I think that part's good. And I think buying a house is good and paying cash for a house. So, um, you're you're in Chicago. I would I would spend less than a million dollars.

I'd probably spend $700,000 on a property and move in cash and move in it. and I would sit down with a Smart Investor Pro and I would invest the rest

in some good mutual funds and I wouldn't touch it and I would go see a therapist and a doctor if you need some uh medication if you're depending on what's going on with your ADHD. I don't know.

But get yourself to where you can work and hold a job and build a career. You will like you better.

You'll be more fun.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one.

>> Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for the Ramsay Show Live.

Yep, you heard me right. We are taking this show to you. This is going to be everything you love about the Ramsay Show except you get to be a part of it.

>> Part of what, George? The The Ramsay Show Live. Okay. >> That's what I'm telling them about. >> Ramsey Show live in here. >> Nope. We're We're doing it on the road.

You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz September 30th. Are you free? >> The Windy City. I like it that time of year. You know what else I like, George?

I like the deep dish.

>> Okay. Maybe we'll have some deep dish.

You mind if I finish the promo? Is that okay with you? >> Okay. Okay. Appreciate that.

>> Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there. >> George, are you in here talking about TRS Live? >> I am, Jade. I'm trying to talk about it.

>> Nice. So, that means it's actually happening, right? >> It It's happening. If I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition. >> Listen, just tell me when and where.

>> You don't know. Okay. We're going to Orlando. Oh, you're going to join Dr. John Deloney and I October 2nd.

>> Yes. Okay, great. I'm going to go pack now. >> Please, please do that. Go pack.

>> Uh, hey, George. Uh, speaking of packing, is this like sweater weather or is it not that cold here in Chicago?

>> What is happening? Can I can I please just get to how they buy the tickets?

>> Jeez, I thought it was a good question.

>> Okay, this is not an arena tour. This is a one night only event in Chicago and Orlando. General admission is only 39 bucks. Plus, there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that. But here's the thing. There's only 300 seats available.

So, get your tickets now at ramiesolutions.com/events.

>> Hey, how come you get to go to both cities? >> I I just go where they tell me, man.

Hey, have have you been there the entire time? >> Maybe. >> Okay. And also, are you reading a children's book?

>> I'm expanding my mind, George.

>> That's how we got those PhDs.

>> Yeah, it's probably where you got that jacket. Okay, see you on the road, John.

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## 120. No One Makes Good Decisions out of Fear or Desperation | December 18, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF-H4r2EBdI) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jo Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show and number one bestselling author, PhD in counseling.

He is uh my co-host today. So, if you've

got questions about dealing with your family during the holidays, he's here for you.

>> And if you don't, your family's calling about you.

>> If you don't think there's crazy in your family, that means it's you because every family's got some crazy. So, there it is. That's how that works. Ann is with us in Chicago. Hi, Ann. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay, so um almost a month ago, I found

out that my husband was gambling online

and um all of our savings has pretty much

been depleted. Um and we have quite a

bit of debt. So, um

>> he's used up the savings gambling.

>> Yeah. >> How much? >> Yes. Um, it's a total of 120,000.

>> WHOA.

>> YEAH. >> YEAH. >> And he borrowed money to continue.

>> So, yeah. So, that's the money that we owe. >> How much do you owe for his gambling?

>> That that is the total. So, what?

>> Oh, I'm sorry. 120,000 >> is the debt that we owe. Um, in regards to like what's been spent from savings?

>> Oh, how much did he steal from savings?

I don't I couldn't even tell you the total, but we're basically starting from square one. Um, so we've we have found

um we've gotten a loan. He's gotten a loan to take care of the debt that he needs to pay back. Um, so I guess my

we're kind of focusing on going to counseling and getting ourselves back into a healthier place independently before we start to kind of focus on next steps with the marriage. But right now, I just need to know kind of what

how to prioritize my funds to start replen like I have I have an educator pension, but I know I need to save and invest in addition to that for retirement and to also like build up that emergency and savings savings. So,

I guess I was just looking for some guidance on like how to do that while

knowing I also have a daughter going off to college next year and just life expenses. So, >> we're going to have to be real honest with you, okay, in a short amount of time. Is that all right?

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Your college your daughter's college plans have probably changed dramatically. >> Yeah. >> And y'all are going to have to metabolize that and have an honest direct conversation with her. But chances are, I'm almost guarantee you, she's not going to go to the college she thought she was going to go to cuz y'all don't have the money.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And she's Yeah. She's aware. She knows.

>> Yeah. And and and you're you're going to have to set up um at least in the short term for the forese foreseeable future,

you have to take make sure you're safe because he's untrustworthy.

>> Yep. Yeah. >> Just going to counseling isn't going to solve his problem. He's got to go to rehab. >> Yes. >> He's got to get with the Gamblers Anonymous. He He is He's got to >> Yeah, he's doing that. >> Okay. >> Yeah, he's been doing that for about five or Well, probably >> probably probably longer than five weeks now. And then seeing a therapist in

addition to that. So, >> okay. So number one, so so your

long-term issues are he uh reaches a level of

healing and then over time can rebuild

trust.

>> It's not instantaneous, but over time he rebuilds trust. And the two of you are handling every dollar in the household together. >> Yes. And um before that happens, you're

going to start operating just to take care of you.

>> Yeah. >> And I really don't care about your teachers pension and your long-term investments right now. I just care more about you having an account where you're in control of food, shelter, >> clothing. >> Yeah, we kind of did that right away. We

got um my own checking account established. Um, and he has um, and then

we have a joint one for him to have a

portion of his paycheck to go into so he can cover the the debt that he's repaying, but I still have like >> Yeah. So, what do you make >> use of that, I guess. >> How do you make what do you make?

>> I I make about 75,000 a year.

>> What does he make?

>> Um, I think it's between 90 to 100,000.

>> Okay. in in a month. Our like our monthly income after taxes and deductions is about 9,000 a month.

>> Yeah. >> And like >> I probably sit down with a marriage counselor and get some guidance on this, but I would not be opposed to all the money going into your account >> and him having visibility on it and

having discussion about it, but act no

access to it. >> I I'm I'm in full agreement of that.

>> Yeah. I think his account, his check and your check should deposit into your account >> and then you pay the debt bill out of that account. But he's got visibility. I don't mind him knowing what's going on, but I just don't want him to have I don't want him to have access to money. He's got a he's got an addiction.

>> Okay.

>> I don't even want him having access to quote unquote his money to continue his addiction. You follow me?

>> Yep. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, because his track record right now is pretty blemished. Yeah.

>> So, um >> it it you sound very um

>> factual and logical about this. I guess you're the other side of being pissed off to where you can't even breathe, right? >> Detached because you have to be.

>> It's it's been four weeks of I don't

know. I guess trying to be very solution focused and um >> Yeah. And very I mean like I said we're

you know we're very much focusing on >> well one one of two things is going to occur long term longterm one of two things is going to occur. He's going to get well and rebuild trust >> Yeah. >> and never go near these sites again never do this stuff again. Um or you all

probably aren't going to be married.

>> Yeah. So if he rebuilds trust and over time 10 years from now has not touched a a a single has not lost a single dollar gambling not not been on a site at all and stays completely sober um and you

guys have rebuilt a marriage, you've rebuilt a relationship, then the two of you together 10 years from now will be building your retirement plans. Okay?

But if he doesn't and you guys are not together, then yeah, then you start asking those questions later about your long-term retirement plans. Right now, I just want short term. I want you to think one year out right now, not 10 years. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And even shorter term, Dave's talking about he has to rebuild trust.

>> You get to decide what the path looks like, and I want you to establish that in 30 or 60-day chunks. And what I mean by that is for the next 30 days, here's what you can do to reestablish trust. And then he gets to decide, do I want to be a part of this marriage or not?

But for 60 days, all of this money goes into one account. >> Yeah. >> And you you can sit by me, but you don't have access to it. >> I don't mind you seeing everything and even let's talk about what we're going to do with it. That's all fine. You speak into it, but but you don't have access to any money and your name's off of everything.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. >> And then he gets to choose, do I want to be stay into this marriage? >> Yeah. >> But you get to decide here's what the here's what here's what reestablishing trust is going to look like for the next 60 days. and then the next 60 days after that and the next 60 days after that.

>> Pick up Henry Cloud's book called Trust.

Uh it's got some real good frameworks in it on this to have a good discussion about as well. Yeah. Let's first

establish a short-term game plan that's solid and you're protected and safe.

Then you worry about retirement.

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Marie is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hey, Marie. What's up?

>> Hi. How are you? Merry Christmas.

>> Merry Christmas. How can we help?

>> Well, thank you. I This may seem small, but it's something that um yes, I appreciate your help with. I have a federal student loan that

I thought had been discharged. Um and

30ome years later, it pops up again with

some interest smacked on it. It's not a huge amount. It was with that added $14,000 loan with $17,000 interest. I

find out about it. I'm like, "Wow, okay.

What do I do?" start. >> Why did you think it had been discharged?

>> Well, um I had a very bad marriage and I was

told by as part of a bankruptcy settlement by probably a second rate lawyer that that had been taken care of.

Another loan had been discharged and I

just >> Is this a federally insured student loan or a private student loan?

>> A federal Yeah. And now I know that

until you die. >> Yeah. You can't bankrupt a You can't bankrupt out a federal loan.

>> I understand that. >> Yeah. >> But it did in fact disappear for all

those years. I never heard a word. I never and at that time in my life, I

just it there was a lot going on and a

lot of trauma and I just it just

disappeared and I never thought about it. Well, it reappeared. And so then I

set about trying to manage it and settle it. And like some people, I did this. I

ignored it. And then I signed up for this program called Fresh Start a year ago. I'm like, fine, I'm going to deal with this loan.

Well, it from 14 to 17, adding on 17, that's 31. All

of a sudden, it was 33, then 34. And the

program was called USID.

And I called them and I said, "Can I please make a cash settlement?" I while I was trying to figure out what to do, I've been saving the money. This is the only debt I have except a very small mortgage.

So, I have some cash to put towards it.

And every time I call to try to settle it, the bill is higher and higher. And now, I just was digging through all my paperwork. The last time I heard from them was in September, and I think it was about 35 or $36,000.

And I just I think my thought is if it goes into default, it would revert back to the US Department of Education and I could make a cash payment rather than paying.

I think the last payment plan they offered me was about $1,800 a month for

eight years or something. I mean, it was unbelievable.

Um, >> I don't know anything about this program,

but I don't know that it's going to default back if the government has sold it.

>> Okay. >> If it was going to default back, it would have defaulted back a long time ago, I think, because it's been unpaid for decades.

>> Um, it the program I signed up for the

program almost a year ago. And interestingly enough, when I was thinking about what I wanted to do with

the money, I got an email from them.

It's like my phone was listening to me.

I don't think so. But I got an email from them and it was just saying one of the things they would do would be default it back to the Department of Education, which my understanding is they would offer you a cash payment settlement that could be 80 or 90%. I have appealed.

I've sent in letters. I sent in documentation saying I thought it had been nothing, you know. Um, and I get it.

There's interest. There's penalties.

>> Yeah. The um the principle is not negotiable, but the interest and penalties are the larger portion on this thing. And that is negotiable when it goes back to the Department of Ed. If it if you can get it to go back to the Department of Ed, and I'm not positive how to do that in this case, but yeah, you're you're correct about that. that uh there is no negotiation on the principal ever on these things.

>> No, >> but there is there is on there is on the interest and on the penalties, particularly on something like this where it's >> a screwed up deal, you know, and they'll they will, you know, if you can finally get someone over there with two brain cells to rub together in the Department of Education, then you you know, maybe you can get something and talk it through. I don't think this is going to be an easy path and I don't have a a a

really sharp cutting direct thing to

tell you to do. Uh because I don't I I just don't know what to do with this thing. Um >> Okay. >> I think I would be calling the department I think I'd be contacting the Department of Education. You know what else? I'll tell you what I would do.

Contact your congressman. >> Yes.

>> Oh, okay. the congressman's office and tell them what you've got and see if you can get some help and get them to have the Department of Education look at your case >> and see if you can get some help that way. And uh most of the congressional

offices and the senator's offices have someone have a staffer that is assigned to student loan problems.

>> Okay. Well, that's brilliant. That would be helpful. >> Yeah. I'm I'm just going to try to get what I want to do is try to get some solid footing and and something that we can count some information we can count on. And so far all you've gotten is the runaround. And I'm afraid I'm giving you the same thing a little bit cuz I don't really have a good answer. But I am 100%

sure that these things are not bankruptible, which you have discovered.

You got shyered there all those years ago. And I'm 100% sure that they will

not negotiate principal.

We have had them when we one of our coaches would go in and do the do battle on behalf of the consumer. We have had them um work on it uh as well. And I tell you

what, we we've got a litigation firm that I don't know if they're handling anything on student loan stuff that just became an advertiser that is representing people where debt has been mishandled uh and the debt collection process has been mishandled. uh we can put you in touch with them too and let's see if um or we'll get in touch with them on your behalf and and see if they can help you uh or can give you some solid direction because they're solid people and they know what they're doing. So yeah, um so I'll put you on hold and Christian will pick up and we'll get you signed up for those guys.

And um trying to Guardian Guardian Litigation, I was trying to remember the name of it. I cut the ads the other day. They just came on with us, but they're helping people that have uh collectors that are misbehaving, violating federal law on Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. They're representing the the borrowers against those collectors and having some really good luck in those situations.

So, we'll try them and we'll try the congressman's office and let's see if we can get something moving for you. And the only way Dave just mechanistically that this could refer back to normally a

a debtor like a car you take out a a bad

car debt and you don't pay it. They sell that loan to a collection agency for a

discount and then the collection agency whatever they can get from you. That's what that's how what's they make the spread. The only way this would work and revert back is if the federal government is not selling the loan but they're hiring basically a a henchman to go get the money. Right.

>> Well, no. No. Sometimes the uh see it's a federally insured student loan. So sometimes the uh the lender or the owner of the debt gives up and and looks at the federal government and says, "Pay me.

You have a guarantee on this." >> Ah, okay.

>> Okay. >> And so they get their money because they have a guarantee on it. They get their the borrow the lender gets their money and now the the loan actually becomes the property of the federal government.

>> Okay? because they're buying it out.

Same thing happens with like an FHA home that gets foreclosed on. Okay, that the Federal Housing Administration has guaranteed the loan. So, City Bank forecloses on an FHA loan. HUD,

Department of Housing Urban Development, writes City Bank a check for 100%

>> of that loan >> of that loan regardless of what the house is worth. Okay. >> And then they take the house and sell it for whatever they can get. And so, you've got a HUD foreclosure up for sale that the government owns the house.

Yeah, >> because they had to make good on their guarantee with City Bank and this works exactly the same way as that. >> So when we think of at the macro level,

you know, the debt, the US debt, >> none of that's included. >> None of that's included. No, like the liabilities that the government has guaranteed, none of that's wound.

>> That's not that's not in that number. Okay. >> Yeah. That number is simply money that treasury bills, treasury bonds that are issued, which is borrowed money. Okay?

And people buy that and that they use that money to fund the amount that they're in the hole called the deficit.

>> Okay.

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Sienna is with us in Birmingham. Hi, Sienna. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. How about you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, first I want to thank you because I've been listening to your show and I have paid down quite a bit of debt. Um,

the only thing I have now is student loans. However, I am signing on a home

um next week. I did put down a down payment. Um, well, actually, I borrowed against my money and put down that down payment and now I am um getting ready to

close on it. And my question is, um, I

don't want to make dumb decisions on putting furniture in the home, putting, um, appliances in the home. I'm, um,

pregnant and I'm getting ready to go maternity leave. So, I just really don't know what's the best way to do it without going back in debt.

>> To do what?

>> To furnish the home furniture.

>> And >> what do you what do you Where's your furniture now? What furniture have you got now?

Um, it's used furniture that I got from my mom. >> Okay, just put that in there.

>> Okay. So, what about like appliances?

>> The house doesn't have appliances.

>> It has a stove.

>> Okay. What appliances do you need?

>> A washer, dryer, um, of a refrigerator.

>> Okay. Are are you single or you married?

>> I am now newly single. Yes.

>> Mhm. >> Just divorced.

>> Um no, we were getting married and then um a big cool off happened and now I'm

um single and I found out a month later

that I was pregnant as well.

>> Okay. Tell me about this down payment you It's an earnest money check, right?

Not a down payment.

>> Yes, cuz >> How much did you put up in earnest money? >> I had the house built.

Um, alto together I put up um like

36,000.

>> You put the 36,000 Oh, it's you had the house built.

>> Mhm. >> So, you put a $36,000 earnest money up.

>> Mhm.

>> Wow. >> Did you borrow that money?

>> Yeah. She said she did. >> I borrowed 29 of it >> from who?

>> My account.

>> What account? Like I bought against my own am my own savings.

>> You mean your 401k?

>> No, I just had it in savings and I just borrowed against it. >> Oh, I see. Okay.

>> Well, that's fairly easy to pay off.

Just take your savings and apply it to the debt and be done with it then, right? So, how much do you have in savings?

Um, well, I have like 20,000 in one account,

45 in another account, and then I did

just find this. I had this acorn account that I had started like years back, and it has like 5,000 in that, and I was just going to take it out of that because >> Okay. So, when you close on the house next week, >> uh, the 36,000 will apply against all of

this, right? So, um, yes. So, the

$45,000 account, for instance, has a $36,000 lean on it, right?

>> Okay. Are you do you have more down payment coming at the closing next week?

>> Um, I do have closing costs and that's

just about it. >> Okay. How much are you How much do you have to bring to the table next week?

>> Only like um 24,00.

>> Okay. All right. And so you have $70,000

in in in those three accounts minus

$29,000 loan. Right.

>> Right. >> So you pay off the $29,000 loan. We use the savings to do that. And 70 minus 29

uh still leaves you a ton of money, kiddo. I mean like $41,000.

>> So I >> if you have $41,000 minus $2,400, why can't you buy appliances?

Well, the thing is that I want So, I had

I was saving up for a year. My my mortgage will be three times the amount that I used to pay in rent. And I was

saving up for to have a year because I won't be working.

>> Oh, so maternity leave is unpaid for you?

>> Yes. I I'm a travel nurse, so I don't

have benefits.

>> Okay. And what are you going to do after the baby comes um and maternity leave is over?

>> So that's the hard part I'm facing now because in my mind before I was pregnant I was like oh I'm just going to keep doing travel assignments and I'll have it paid off in no time.

And so now >> Yeah. So now now you're probably a local nurse so that you can take care of your child, right?

>> Yes. >> Which is going to be a big pay cut, >> right? Okay. Can you afford this new house? >> No. I think you're selling this new house, aren't you?

>> Uh, am I going to be able to on a local

notice? Yeah. No, probably not.

>> No. No.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. We're in the >> And does does does baby daddy know he gets to pay child support on this yet?

>> Um, yes, he's he's learned that. Yes.

>> Okay. Good.

All right. Oh my goodness gracious.

>> Can we just say we're about to tell you what to do next, but

this is going to sound silly to say this out loud, but I want you to spend at least a minute being sad

>> that this guyad >> this guy blew up your life. You're not going to be able to have this dream dream home that you had built from the ground up.

>> And your future plans with this little baby are going to look different. >> Yeah. I I would close on the house next week and after the first of the year, I would contact Ramsey Sol. Go to Ramseyolutions.com and contact a Ramsey trusted real estate agent and I would turn around and put the house back on the market and let's get it sold before it gets you in trouble cuz you and I know you already knew before you called me this house is going to be trouble because now you are going to be staying in Birmingham as a nurse, no longer traveling, and that's going to be a 30% pay cut and you simply can't pay the payments on this house anymore.

and all you're going to do is burn through your savings and then you're going to have the same problem.

Get rid of the stupid thing. It's just a stupid house.

>> And it's, you know, you can live anywhere and go buy you a used washer and dryer on Craigslist and uh try to

find a bargain on some kind of little refrigerator to stick in that hole while you get the house sold.

But you don't go buy a big fancy washer and dryer that flies to the moon and back. And you don't go buy a, you know,

a refrigerator that has way too many features. Okay? Just the bare minimum thing that'll get it done. A used washer and dryer.

Maybe a used refrigerator, but go pick up something just an inexpensive something on sale after the first of the year with cash. You've got the cash and then you hoard cash. You save the cash. You watch the cash to do what you were talking about.

But let's turn around and get the house right back on the market and get rid of it.

I'm got a baby and I'm not getting married and and so I'm staying home take care of this baby. I'm not going to be able to be a travel nurse and it's going to change your John's right. It's very sad. It's tragic what you've got, you know, the way this has unfolded for you.

But you also don't have, again, this is

all due respect. I don't think you can afford maternity leave.

>> That's what I'm afraid of. >> You can't. >> I've been trying to like double up, but I'm also like very tired and hurting at the same time. >> I know. Have you Have you got family in the area? >> No, >> I do. So, I also have two other girls

and my mom helps with them, but I mean,

I can't help, you know. How were you traveling with the other two girls?

>> Cuz my mom helps with them.

>> So you'd be out of town for like a week and your mom kept them.

>> No, I would travel an hour and a half every day or I would um travel there and

work 4 days and then travel back >> and then work PRN where I'm at.

>> Okay. So, >> well, if you can continue to do that, if you can continue to do that after the baby comes for a period of time, if your mom can handle the newborn, that's going to be a wise thing just from a math standpoint. I know it's hard, but this whole situation's hard, but get rid of this house. Okay.

>> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. I'm sorry, kiddo. >> I hate this for you. >> Wow. What a horrible mess. Hate it for

you. God, makes me sick.

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Scots in Canada. Hey Scott, how are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing well. Uh, thank you Dave and John for your for your ministry. My wife and I really appreciate it. I just have a question about a vehicle that my

wife and I were recently given. Um it's a 2023 Jeep Wrangler. It's worth about

50 just over $50,000.

And um we make about $35,000 a year. I'm

a plumbing apprentice and my wife is at home with our five-month-old son. And um we are currently we're debtree completely. We're renting a house and we have a great renting situation and we're just saving up for a down payment on a home. and we were uh just wanted to get some wisdom on on this vehicle that we've been given if we should keep it and have a safe and reliable vehicle for the next um many years or if we should

um maybe consider selling it and put that towards a down payment on a home.

But uh it was a gift and so there's kind of a little moral dilemma there and yeah, we just wanted some wisdom on what to do with this vehicle.

Not counting the moral dilemma. I would sell it and buy a $20,000 car and put 30,000 in the bank.

But now what's what's the moral dilemma?

Does somebody have give it to you? They give you a gift and expect you to keep it. >> Yeah. So um the way we came about this is a family friend um passed away and he

gave all of his estate to another family friend who's 96 years old. And this 96-year-old, he gave us this Jeep and um

and from the estate and uh yeah, I'm

pretty confident that he probably wouldn't have given it to us if he knew that or thought that we would just sell it right away.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Um

it was it was a car he owned or a car that was in the estate or something. He didn't buy it to give to you, right?

>> No, he didn't buy it to give it to us.

Um, he received it through the estate of another family friend and then he gave it to us from there.

>> How are you connected to this guy? Is he friends with your parents or is he just a neighborhood? >> Yeah, he's he's uh friends with my dad.

>> Have you talked to your dad about it?

>> Um, yeah. And he is leaning more towards keeping it and driving it for the next 15 years.

>> That's awfully optimistic with a Jeep, but that's another conversation.

>> Yeah. Uh, well, I mean,

it's found money and uh I'm not going to

sever a relationship over it. If you if you have to drive it, you have to drive it. But I probably am having a cup of coffee in person with the 96 year old and saying, "Hey, I got little babies, a wife. We need a house more than we need a car. This gift is incredible. I want

to honor you and thank you for that." Um, but it's way more car than we could have. and we could do with a lot less

car and a good down payment on a house better. And I would think that, you

know, that you probably would tell me that buying a house is more important than buying a car. And so I'm asking your permission to help me buy a house with this money and by selling the car moving down. And I'm asking for your blessing on that. I don't want to hurt your feelings and I don't want to seem ungrateful or dishonoring to you or to the gift. And see what the reaction is.

What do you think the reaction will be?

You know the guy?

>> Um, I don't know him super well actually, but um he's a he's a very nice

man, so I think he would probably um wouldn't be too hurt by that.

>> One of one of the greatest questions um an older man can be asked is, "Can I get your wisdom on something?"

>> Yeah. I want to get your wisdom on something. Here's what I'm thinking. I I mean, I've got a little I've got babies and a young wife, and we need a house more than we need a fancy car. And I'm really I I want to be, you know, careful

to honor you and honor how generous you've been. Thank you. And I never would do something without talking to you. And I'm asking your wisdom on this.

It feels like to me that I'd be better off driving a $20,000 car with a $30,000 down payment on a house than driving a $50,000 car, which is going down in value like a rock. Can I promise you a cheap Wrangler is going down in value like a rock?

That 50 is going to be worth 20 and 30 seconds.

If somebody came to me and asked me that, I would 99ly 99% of the time, if

I'd given somebody like a an heirloom

rifle that my great-granddad owned, I would say, "I I don't want this sold, right? I gave it to you to entrust it to you." But if it was a car that somebody else gave me because they passed away and now I've got it and I've I've got about 30 minutes left on this life, I would say, "Bro, get yourself a house.

Take care of your babies." >> Yeah. And I think most people would, except apparently your dad, but Yeah.

But your dad's like wrong. But you know, other than that, but yeah. So I I I think you sit down in person, have a cup of coffee with the guy, maybe even take your wife and the two of you sit down and just say, "I I I number one, we want

to say thank you. We want to be grateful. We don't want to be entitled.

We don't want to seem bratty. We want to honor you and honor the gift. And we need your wisdom on something. >> Yeah. You've changed our life. So, thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. This is incredible. It's mind-blowing. And we need your wisdom on something. Here's what we think makes sense. What do you think?

And that's I I think you'll get a positive response and then I'd sell the car. >> And if you don't get a positive response, you get an answer and then you can move on with your life. >> Yeah. You just drive the stupid car.

Yeah, I mean I I would I would have to honor it if he holds you to it, but I just it's an very unusual human being that's going to do that. He's got some control issues in himself or something else going on. And by the way, folks, a gift with this many strings attached is not really a gift. Okay, so um yeah,

Jimmy's in Cleveland, Ohio. Hey, Jimmy.

What's up?

Hey, I'm wondering if I should get a 529

plan for my children >> when you're at baby step five. Yes.

>> Okay. Well, I don't make a ton of money.

And I guess I'm wondering is it is it

better I have uh I'm a teacher, so I have state teachers retirement which is about 15% of my income that goes into that. And I'm wondering if it's uh

better to put additional money into a

457.

>> No. >> Or in >> You're better off to put it into a 529.

>> Okay. >> 529 grows taxfree. 457 grows tax deferred.

>> Okay. And I Well, I do have a Roth 457.

>> I still wouldn't do I still would do it.

I still would have a 529 that's growing tax-free for your kids' college when you're able to do that and ready to do that at baby step five. But don't don't

use don't use the wrong tool for the job.

>> Okay. Yeah, I'm definitely there at uh baby step five. Um >> and Jimmy, let me tell you this. I was a high school teacher in a public high school. I was an elementary school teacher at a private school. I was a university administrator.

You know what? All of those had some sort of education plan for my kids. And so I didn't open up one. I had no idea that this thing called a podcast was going to come my way down the road.

>> Okay? >> You know what I mean? And so you can have the best laid plans right now. You just don't know what the world's going to look like five or 10 years from now.

When I started teaching, there was no such thing as a podcast. It didn't exist.

YouTube was just enough. It wasn't a thing. It didn't exist. And so, man, plan for the future that you want, not the one you think you're going to have.

>> Yeah. Three cats chasing a laser.

>> That That's Yes. Pew pew.

Classic YouTube line. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I think use the right tool for the right job, you know. Don't save up for a house using your Roth IRA, people. That's not what it's for. Okay. Don't save up for your kids' college using something other than a college fund or a just a mutual

fund that you have earmarked for college if you if you want to go that way. But no, I I um wouldn't do that. I remember

Dave, I was working on some a wood project for years. I would just tool around in the garage and I would never buy chisels. I always thought I just do this with a screwdriver and a hammer.

And I finally broke down and bought chisels. >> It was amazing. >> It was amazing how much better that tool worked. The right tool for the right job. Yeah, when you're using a flathead to do your Phillips screws. >> Just Yeah. >> Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. No kidding.

>> Yeah. That that you know, don't try to trick stuff. Just keep it real simple, real clean. Be the tortoise. Don't be

the hair. Don't look for a way to hack.

Don't look for a hack. The hack is live on less than you make. Give some and save some. Tada. There's your hack.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Tom is in Syracuse, New York. Hey, Tom. Merry Christmas.

>> Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up? >> Um, I just needed some advice on I guess

how to deal with a parent who has developed a gambling addiction. Um,

>> she's elderly. Um, I lost my dad about 5

years ago and she was not left in great shape financially. Uh so when he was alive and in the last say four or five years we would pick up some of her bills here and there and then um we found out about the gambling addiction. She lives on um just social security and loses about 25% of that to a casino.

>> How old is she? >> Um she's 80. >> Mhm.

and loses lives on like $2,300 and and

lost, you know, over about $7,000 last

year.

>> Um, so I guess I just have a lot of guilt as to not not helping her really

with her bills any longer because of the gambling addiction, not talked to her about it. And for example, we know in

about a year she's going to need a car

and I'm not willing to give her the

money for the car since I know a large portion of her money goes towards gambling. But I've developed a lot of guilt because of this because I guess we're fairly um fortunate financially.

So I don't know the next >> What's your I don't understand your question. What's your question?

Well, the other shoe's going to drop soon. And should I be funding her even

though she has this this addiction?

Should I be taking care of her bills? I I She'll never go without food or shelter. But >> Sure. Well, I So, at the end of the day, when one of the hardest things in the world to do is when somebody you love, and in this case, your mom. So, that's like the like the epicenter of love, right? It's your mom. when your mom says and when a loved one says, "I don't want your help." And you know, you see the train coming down the tracks, you know they're going to need it.

But the boundary right now is >> for right now, I'm I'm not going to pay I'm not going to bail you out anymore.

And then when the day comes that she's moving into your house, which you know is going to come sooner rather than later, then you will be able to make choices for how you help and support and love her.

Yeah. The the thing is you you have to define help. And when you assist someone

in a self-destructive behavior, that is not help.

>> No. >> When you buy a drunk a drink, it's not help. And so, um, it is, you know, and

that that's what you're facing. And and so, yeah, it's just >> it's heartbreaking. >> It's it's but it's very hard to love

some. It requires much more courage to love someone well than to just wuss out and throw money at them, >> right? >> And so, yeah, you know, the other the other extreme is this. Mom, I'm more than happy to take care of you and make sure you're okay, but in order for me to do that, I will have to take over all your money and ma manage it for you and you will never be in a casino again,

>> which we've discussed. And she will not >> Yeah. >> will not do that. >> Yeah, she's not gonna do that. So, she's choosing to stand in front of a train

and she's an competent quote unquote

uh you know, a doctor has not declared her early onset or something like that.

She's uh you know, legally competent

adult and so the law says she gets to do

stupid stuff because stupid is not illegal yet. Our prisons would be vastly overcrowded. But yeah. >> So, are are you married?

>> Uh I am. Yes. >> So, I I think the more productive use of this guilt and these feelings and this energy that you feel is to sit down with your wife and say, "When the day comes, what are we going to be willing to do when it comes to are we going to move her in? Do we have a room here? Do we have a space here? Are we going to fund her apartment? Like, what's that going to look like?" And go ahead and get that on paper. You all agree to that?

>> Yeah. I will I will if you're if you're financially set and you want to use some of your money to help your mom provided you take over all of her bills and all of her income and you stop this behavior, you know, as a part of as a part of the deal. But mom's not willing to do that right now. But there'll be a day where she's going to run this thing into the wall and she's going to be stuck and you go, "Well, you know, my

terms are still the same, Mom. When I take over, there'll be no more of that,

>> right? and you're going to be taken care of. You will never want for food or shelter or transportation or clothing.

You'll not have any problems. You'll be taken care of. But taken care of does not include casinos. Nope.

>> Nope. >> Okay. >> You know, and you're just It's just hard. >> Yeah. >> It's just hard. Uh the sandwich generation taking care of a kid, taking care of your parents at the same time.

You get squeezed between. >> Let me say it this way, Tom. There's no bad feelings here. You're allowed to feel guilty. You're allowed to feel mad.

You're allowed to feel frustrated. You're allowed to feel mad at your dad for not setting her up. Like, whatever feelings you have are all good and right. >> Mad at the casino for taking care of taking advantage of an 80-year-old widow. Hello. I could be mad about that.

>> So, there's no bad feelings. It's just what are you going to do next?

>> And that's the question. >> Yeah.

But but Dave, the the the

it's hard in a culture that you've been told either a your feelings are everything. Just do what you feel, which is always wrong. >> Awful advice, but also the idea of feelings don't count. They never matter.

Forget them. Never feel them. That's bad, too. You have to feel them and then you got to go do the next right thing.

And that's where people get hung up. And it's hard. >> It's hard. >> Yeah.

I mean, just say it out loud. This sucks. >> Yeah, it is. You know, >> so the right thing is it it you know, and maybe getting your mom a car.

Maybe she wouldn't go sell the car to gamble the money way. Like you have to go through all the >> give her if you give her a car, just keep it in your name. >> Yeah. It's mine.

>> Can't sell it. >> You can borrow it. >> You can use this car. >> Yeah.

>> And that way it doesn't turn into gambling money. Yeah. >> But of course, the reason she can't pay for her own car is because she's gambled the money way. That was also his point.

So yeah. >> Yeah. It's just there's something always going on. And at what point does an 80-year-old quit driving?

I mean, there's all that, too. So, I I don't I don't know what her health condition is. I don't know what's going on with her. So, >> the thing beneath the thing is might be you have an really lonely 80-year-old woman and you go into a casino and there's people there and people will talk to you and they'll smile to you and they'll bring you a diet coke and like it may be when you move into my house we're going to have to figure out some ways for you to get some connection in the last years of your life or whatever that looks like.

>> Yeah, that's >> But Dave, we keep getting these calls on gambling, man. It's just >> gambling is uh this was casino here, but online and

particularly sports betting is just raping America. >> It's a just cleaning out. I mean, if you

guys don't think that FanDuel and DraftKings and whatever other stupid butt commercials on every break on every

game you watch, you know, you know what they're paying for those commercials?

That's some of the most expensive commercials you could buy on a live sporting event. And uh and they are, you

know, they're making billions off of you people. And and y'all are just standing back going, "Well, isn't this fun? I lost everything." You know, scout them out. You're going to lose your wife. You're going to lose your kids. You're going to lose your job. But but I'm really good at betting on football, you Unbelievable, man. It's just so

wins, >> man. >> The house wins. just, you know, follow the money. You know, Vegas hotels were

not built on the backs of losers, on winners. They're built on the backs of losers. And that's what you are when you walk in there immediately. house wins, you're a loser in so many ways.

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One of the things we've railed on for years around here is the fact that time

shares are legalized fraud. 85% of all

time share buyers regret their purchase yet cannot cancel it due to a short

recision window. 95% of time share

buyers go back to their resort sales team for more information within 1 to 3 days. On Trust Pilot, Marriott Vacation now has a 1.3 stars out of five.

According to ARTA, the maintenance fees go up 17.5% a year and

$50 million in losses last year alone to

the elderly. The AARP says for time shares, the time share business is absolutely a billiondoll fraud. The

whole thing has been screwing primarily the elderly, but also those of you that are silly enough to walk in there for a quote free vacation and then they lock you in a hot box for 5 hours until you agree to sign. And we tell you over and over and over again, stay away from these people. They're slimy. They're crooks. It's a horrible business. I hope I've not been unclear. So, I was really happy to get a call the other day from US Senator John Curtis, Utah's Senator,

and uh he is has a bill coming up before the Senate to uh regulate the freaking

time share business finally. So, he's

we've become instant friends because of that. And I asked him to come on and talk about his bill. Senator Curtis, thanks for joining us. >> Dave, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed your intro. I I love your

passion. Uh, thank you for being so passionate about this. I am I am honored to be um co-conspirator with you and reigning in this terrible, terrible problem. >> So, what got you on the time share thing? Why did you decide to do this?

>> You know, I over time I've heard from so many people and it kind of came to a head when a good friend uh reached out to me and said, "Look, you're in the Senate. Why don't you do something about this?" And uh so, you know what? He's right. I sat down with my team and we started thinking about what we could do to to put some guard rails on this.

>> So, the bill has now officially been introduced. >> That's correct. >> When you and I talked a few months ago, you just had it drafted and we were able to talk about it on the phone and you were showing me what it was going to cover and I particularly like several of the things that that the uh bill does.

Talk about the items in the bill to limit the time share world.

>> Yeah, it's pretty simple. First of all, you should know what you're buying. There should be transparency. Second of all, you should know if there's going to be radical changes to to what you've bought.

And third of all, you should be able to change your mind within a agreed upon period of time. And then, let's face it, if 85% of the people regret getting into it, there needs to be some way for them to get out of it. And that's a simplification of what the bill does. >> Yeah.

One of the things I saw in there was it grants the buyers a 14-day penalty-free cancellation period, which uh I've been trashing the time share business and they've been coming back at me, have sued me and done everything else all over for for decades now.

a horrid business. And from my understanding of talking with those guys, a 14-day penalty-free cancellation period will cut their sales by 70%.

You'll probably put them out of business. Well, listen. If any business

is dependent on getting people to do something they don't want to do, then they perhaps should go out of business.

Now, my goal is not to put them out of business, right? My goal is just to make it so people can can trust what they're getting into. You you well know that a lot of these people are on vacation.

They're away from their children, their financial adviserss, their lawyers, and

then they they do these deals and by the time they get around those people who generally give them advice, it's too late. >> Yeah. There's no no backing out and there's no way to sell the stupid thing because nobody wants to buy them.

There's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them for sale on eBay for a dollar. >> Yeah. And the reason is is they they now come with this liability of these these monthly or annually fees that are so exorbitant. Far greater than any amount of money that you could spend and have a really great vacation. And that's why they're worthless. >> Yeah. I mean, $13,000 will buy you a lot of freaking Hilton. Hello. I mean, come on people. And then you mortgage it too.

You mortgage air because you're not even getting real estate. There's no title here. You have a two week stay maybe.

Probably not at the place they told you it would be. And then you want, oh, you can go to Hawaii. Nah, never happening.

That's the biggest line of crap. It never occurs. Okay. So, the bill has been introduced. What are the next stages? And what can our listeners do to help you uh protect the public from this industry? >> This is where I need their help. Uh I I know that the size of the audience if if even a fraction of those call their senator and say please hop on the time share transparency act that's what I need. I need more senators to join me.

You know this battle is pretty lonely and and right now you know you and I are feeling pretty alone on this. We need senators engaged and we need people to call their senators and say look I've had one of these bad experiences. Please support this bill.

>> That simple. Just so if you're listening to this and you know somebody's been screwed by a time share or you have and you think a 14-day waiting period is at least fair. Um I I would be yeah that's

a minimum and but the the impact of this would be and mandate disclosure of all

uh fees and notice requirements and all the changes and dad gum 17% increase on

average every year in the maintenance fees. See, that stuff needs to be disclosed upfront >> for and that's all we're asking is transparency. If people still want to make that decision and they know all of these things and have a reasonable amount of time to get out of it, fine.

But as you well know, most of the people wouldn't sign up for that if they were given the time and the space to make a good decision. >> Right. And AARP has actually come out in

support of the bill. They've endorsed it. Right. >> I actually spoke with them just a few minutes ago. they enthusiastically supported and sadly you mentioned this many of the people that that get into these are our seniors and like I say they're away from their normal support structure when they get into these very very high pressure sales techniques they they maybe make a bad decision and then they don't have a window to change that decision that's just wrong.

>> Yeah. And you're not actually buying anything so you can't sell it and yet you have debt on it. it it I I swear one attorney that does the exits on this calls it legalized fraud and I don't disagree with him. I completely agree with that. So the Timeshare Transparency

Act is live and well in the Senate.

Senator John Curtis from Utah has introduced it and he needs some cover from you people in the audience. So reach out, ping your senator, send him an email, give him a call whether you know him or not, and just say, "Hey, you need to back Senator John Curtis's Time Share Transparency Act." Cuz I got to tell you, this business is full of

money. And they will be throwing a serious battle up to not be forced to

give transparency. This is when icky icky icky politics starts working right here. Icky, sticky mess. And so Senator

Curtis is right. They're gonna come at him. They've been coming at me for years. I'm used to it. And I just bring it, buddy. Bring it. I hate you people.

I'll take it. I'll come on. That's fine.

But uh I think you suck. But anyway,

he's being a lot more diplomatic because he's a US senator and I'm just a podcaster. So, but you guys u you know,

reach out to him, reach out to your senator, reach out to your congressman because it'll have to go through Congress as well. and just let's get some political cover on this from the consumer base to protect the consumer.

That simple. And uh and in the meantime,

stay out of those places. Just stay away

from them. Snakes bite. Don't pick up snakes. Why is this hard? These guys are unbelievable. So, Senator Curtis, thank you so much for taking your time to join us, brother. >> Thanks. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for your support >> and thanks for what you're doing to get this bill on the floor. the Timeshare Transparency Act. Yeah. In other words,

if you could see what these people were doing, no one would do it.

That's how this works. I mean, come on.

This is really not hard. So, check it out, guys. We've been saying around here forever, time shares suck. Hector wrote in. He said, "I'm 26 years old. I currently have about $13,000 in debt for Hilton Honors." Uh,

time share. The time share has been a major burden. And I'm pay $218 a month plus over $1,200 in maintenance fees every January. Honey, you could have stayed in a nice hotel for less.

A lot.

I realize it was a mistake and I'm looking for a way out. I have no way out. You're right. You're stuck. You're screwed.

Dave, the the thing I I'm struggling with here is I don't really know where you stand on time shares,

man. Yeah, Hilton bought um was it

Diamond? I got into it. The guy running Diamond on the Air. I was doing a Twitter fight with him a while back, Mikey. And he got fired finally and he was the president of the company and I was I was just taking him down cuz he's such a slimeball.

And uh so they Hilton buys that company for like a billion dollars. And so now Hilton has Hilton has absorbed diamond. And so what all these diamond time shares which are really particularly scummy, they now are under the brand name of Hilton. Hilton's damaged their own brand with this. It was legitimate brand and now they delegitimized themselves.

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Or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Baby, Christiey's with us in Lexington, Kentucky. Hi Christie, how

are you? >> Hey, I'm blessed. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. Merry Christmas.

How can we help?

>> Um, yes, we are about to lose 80% of our

income. And so >> why >> I was wondering, well, my husband got in a really bad coal mining accident in August of 2024.

>> And he um it almost chopped his hand off. It was so bad. He's still under doctor's care, workman's comp, but he's getting ready to lose the workman's comp. And he's got a couple checks left coming that we do know of before they cut him off. But I don't know if I need to use that money to pay off what I can.

>> Okay. So, he's unable to be a coal miner because of the injury.

>> Yes. >> And how is it that they're getting away with not paying him for the rest of his life for that?

>> Well, that is something that we are going to push for, but during the time

being, I mean, um, he won't get anything

until we fight it. if that makes sense.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, it's been a year and some change. Why are we not yet fighting it?

>> Because um our um legal adviser told us

that we needed to wait until he was completely done with all doctor's care.

That way, he can continue to get the care that he needs for his hand. And then after it's over, then >> there's no union contract that covers any of these these injuries?

>> No.

I would. Is it? This is unionized though, isn't it?

>> Um, I'm not sure.

>> He's not in a union.

>> No. No. That's >> interesting. >> Okay. Um, >> all right. So, Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, your your attorney is you you have faith in your attorney that this is good advice and you're going to be ready to go because I suspect this is something I mean, he was hurt on the job permanently. I think they're probably going to have to support him, but uh but that you know, but you're right. In the meantime, okay, so what's the status of his injury now? How's he doing in general?

>> Okay. Um he's unable to use his hand. Um

they had to amputate his thumb. It did gloved him from his palm all the way up his forearm. >> Oh god. >> Um tendon, ligament repair. They had to take muscle out of his hand. It has been a terrible >> catastrophe. Yeah. Um I obviously Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

>> The Lord has helped us though. I'm telling you, if it was not for the Lord, we there's no way that we could have >> Amen. >> been where we are today. >> So, what I'm thinking about, how how old is he? >> He's 35. >> Okay. This is an absolute tragedy and it's absolutely horrible. I'm so sorry.

And if I'm him, I got the rest of my life. I got to figure out what I'm going to do.

Yes. >> And nothing is not an option,

>> right?

>> So, um, lots of people have

sadly gone through losing a limb or losing the use of something and have managed to find productive work of some kind, maybe using your mind instead of

your body, or maybe using prosthetics to

get a different kind of a job done. Um,

but I I really want him to be thinking about other than sitting around waiting on the lawyer to call him, uh, I want him to think about what the what his next career is.

>> Yeah, he's he has been doing that. I mean, >> so what's the plan? >> Um, >> well, he uh really likes to detail

vehicles. He's always liked to do that.

Um, and that is something that he >> What did he used to make as a minor?

um close to um 100 grand a year almost.

>> Okay. And so let's start talking about detailing a detailing business, car detailing business that makes 100 grand,

>> right? >> It could be done. That's that's doable.

>> It might be it might be he has five kids doing has five crews doing car dealing and it car detailing and he owns a business not just as doing it himself.

>> I mean I I don't know. Let's let's start looking for a path where we don't start with the assumption of we lost 80% of our income for the rest of our lives. No. No. How about we lost none of our income and we get the benefit of this

lawsuit.

>> Yeah.

So, um I mean as soon as he is

physically able with somebody to hire somebody to help him and then the two of them can do

a car detailing. He needs to get started detailing cars now.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Merry Christmas. You got a pressure washer for Christmas.

>> He already has tons of that stuff.

>> All right. Well, let's get let's get our button gear. Let's get our button gear.

And then we don't have to sit and try to solve for an 80% cut in pay. We're going

to have some cut in pay and you've been through this horrible tragedy and all of that's real, but let's minimize the damage that it does by getting back to work sooner than later. Is that okay?

>> Yes. Um as soon as I guess as soon as he's able to. I mean >> Yeah. And I I don't know the medical condition and I can't even imagine that cuz basically if I have a hangail I end up in intensive care. I'm a complete wuss. So I can't even imagine what he has gone through. And I would not ever dare to even begin to understand the

pain or the loss or the emotional scars

that go with this whole tragedy. But uh I I can't even get there cuz I'm I'm a complete wuss. I mean really it's it's ridiculous how how big a wuss I am. And so, but the so anyway I still though if

I'm him I'm going to go back to work.

>> Yes. And he I mean he wants to do that but as of now I mean he can't even lift

over 15 pounds. I have to help him do

everything. I mean his back

uh no is the >> he can't lift anything with that hand but the other hand he can lift more than 15 pounds.

>> Yes. Yes. Um but um I help him do a lot

um because of the hand injury. Um he try

he does as much as he can. I mean and he's a go-getter. He's always worked 60 plus hours a week. >> Yeah. I'm assuming I'm not accusing the guy being lazy. Please not even close.

But the u I'm assuming you're doing a lot of physical therapy as well, right?

>> Yes. He has done it over and over.

>> Yeah, I bet. I'm so sorry. Even even if

he has to go work a register somewhere

just for the time being, like there's the physical ailment here, but he lost his identity.

Coal miners have a like >> an ethos. >> Yeah. They've got a a spirit about them.

They're tougher than the rest of the people. They do work that nobody will do. There's there's a spirit and that's

been taken from him. And so even just

grinding out a shift at a gas station, sitting on a stool, like checking people out with their waters and their and their snuff cans, he'll at least start

to slowly get back a little bit of that I'm providing. You get what I'm saying, >> right? And right now he's okay, not okay with it because he is drone workers come, but he's still constantly like, I need to do something. I need to go.

>> He's right. He's right. Yeah. But here hear him say that's a spiritual thing.

No, I'm I'm serious. Hire hire a college student that's home for the holidays to go out and help him and get his let's get this detail business started.

>> Good idea, >> you know, and and somebody go be with him and and the two of them together get it done and he can manage the customers and manage the money and do some of the work. Uh some of the stuff is doable, I suppose. I don't know. I don't I mean, I'm just reading into this, but all of this to say, let's not start with the premise we're going to lose 80% of our income. Let's start with the premise that we're going to lose 80% of our income for a month.

>> But but to go back to your original question, we're not going to take all the remaining cash we have and try to pay off everything. We're going to pay minimums and stack cash, right? >> No, you stack cash. You just you're in the middle of a hurricane.

So, you just stack up cash. How big a big how you're in the middle of what's called an emergency, right? >> So, you don't use anything. You use you pile money up.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

>> Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids, and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me.

And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, and they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here.

And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options.

Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

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or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. When you pre-order, you're getting a bargain and getting a bunch of stuff for free. We're bribing you to buy our book early because it helps us with the marketing. So, thank you for doing that, by the way. It's a big help for Jade and for us. We appreciate you. All right, Preston's with us in Austin, Texas. Hey, Preston. What's up?

>> Hey, merry Christmas. Thank you for having my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

Um, I was wondering if it would be

unwise to pull out of the 401k to pay

off the car. Yes. >> Before the our baby is due.

>> 100%. Yes. Absolutely. Terrible idea.

Don't do this.

>> Okay. Um, >> have we been clear? >> No. And I knew >> here's here's why. When you pull it out early, you get a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. So, if you're in a 20% tax bracket, the 10% penalty, that's 30%.

That's like saying, "Dave, I want to borrow money at 30% interest to pay off my car." No.

>> Yeah. No, you're right. That that's that's that's silly. >> It's a depreciating asset. >> I'm starting to panic. >> Yeah. What do you owe on the car? >> Our baby? >> Uh about 8,000.

>> Okay. And what do you make, sir?

>> Uh 58,500 uh salary. >> Okay. And And you have a baby due when?

>> In March. >> How old are you? Um, I'm 29 years old. >> Good for you. So, what's the panic?

>> Um, well, so my wife, she makes about

the same amount of money. Um, and we're planning on for her to, you know, move to a part-time or even less position after we have our child.

Um, and our our rent is too high. Um,

>> how much is a part?

>> It's 1,700 a month.

>> Okay. Um, and so that along with all the

other I mean, um, so I married her and I

have never had debt. Um, and when we got

married, I I I kind of panicked when I saw like um, all the monthly bills that come out for like student loans and that kind of stuff. >> How much other debt other than the car do you all have?

>> It's about $23,000 total.

>> Okay. All right. Cool.

>> Um, >> all right. So here you you are a guy who likes to have no debt and and plenty of

room in the budget and you have neither of those. And so the word panic comes up a lot in a conversation with you.

>> Yes. >> Okay, that's fair. That's fair. So what we need to do is to develop a game plan to a get rid of the debt and b make sure

we have the margin for her to go to

part-time. I don't know if you do or not. You may not have that option,

but you need to decide that not with your heart, but with your math because you're grown-ups.

>> Yes. >> And it may be that she's got to work 6 months after this baby's born, so you'll clear everything out. You get some margin, and then she can take all the time off she wants. >> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Listen, listen to me and Dave. We're two emotional guys.

I won't speak for Dave. I've felt the panic you're feeling right now. I've felt it. >> I have, too. >> And what I'll tell you is panic makes us

make bad decisions.

>> It's your body screaming at you. You're an emergency. Just start running. I don't care where. And that's where there's a loan company telling you consolidate with us. Or that's when you're going to >> take out a 401k loan. Borrow money on your or take cash out your 401k and you

only have $8,000 in debt. You only have 23 total. eight on the car and you make

58 and she makes 58, that's 116. This is

very doable. We've just got to decide how she ramps down and when she ramps down so that we clear these debts. And the way to do that is get yourself on a detailed budget and the two of you together are looking at the numbers like two grown-ups cuz we have a little person we get to watch over now.

>> Okay? And that that will remove a lot of the the anxiety because one of the things that causes panic or anxiety in these cases is the unknown. When you

actually know in detail what the villain

looks like, he's not nearly as scary.

That's >> right. >> So, I want you to get the detail of your budget down. The two of you where every stinking dollar is going

and maybe we're not eating out. Maybe we're not going on vacation. Maybe we're not buying X, Y, or Z. I don't know.

Probably all of that. And we're going to clear up these stinking debts and we don't have any debt payments. All we've got is the rent and baby formula. We can make it fine. And then that's when she could back down. John may be right. She may be back to work for a little while.

But you guys need to make that decision with a calculator, not a not a feeling.

>> And Preston, let me tell you this. If every time she sits down to do a budget with you, you go into panic mode.

>> She doesn't want to do it. >> She don't want to sit down with have a budget with you. So, if that's been you, here's a great way to to sit down and have this conversation. I'm sorry. I

have made these budget meetings chaotic and stressful for you and I get panicked. I'm sorry. We got a baby

coming. I'm going to be calm and we're going to come up with a game plan together. And maybe I'll decide she is going to stay at home, go to part-time, and you're going to start driving Uber at night until Whimo takes that away. or I'm gonna get a second job for six months and get these things knocked out and then I'm gonna be at home and be present. Y'all have a math problem in front of you. >> That's it. That's all. >> That's it. >> There's nothing to panic about, though.

>> No, >> nothing here. You have a very doable situation. You're not going to be without food. The baby's fine.

Everybody's okay. You're going to be fine. There's not It's just a matter of how quickly you get some of the financial stressors off of you and instead turn towards wealth building.

And we'll help you with that. We'll put you into Every Dollar as our gift. Let's make it a baby shower gift. Okay. So, Christian will pick up and we'll get you signed up for Every Dollar. John, I have

noticed and I'm sure from uh your PhD in

counseling, you probably could speak to why this is, but I've noticed when I sat down with couples um doing one-on-one

coaching over the years that the uh the

unknown is way more stressful than the known. So they come in with like a box, like a shoe box full of bills and we get

them all out and we just start writing, making lists and throwing them in the trash, making lists, throwing them in the trash because there's usually 17 multiples, you know, duplicates, like re another notice and another notice and another notice all on the same bill. So it's really just one number, but there's seven pieces of paper, so let's just get it down to one piece of paper, throw it away, and you just clean the thing up and organize it.

I thought it was." >> Right? >> Or it when somebody says, "I'm exhausted. I'm frustrated." That lets me know they're working a hard plan. And I go, "Yeah, two more years. One more year." Like, there's no way around that.

When someone says, "I'm panicking. I'm I'm anxious." >> They don't know the plan. >> Almost always means I don't have a plan. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And when I write it out on a budget and you see that I can eat and I see that I can keep the lights and the water on and I see that the rent can be paid and we can buy baby formula and I see that we can do this. We just can't go on vacation this year. But we can do we can

live. Then every time I see I can do one

more thing, the anxiety, the stress

drops. >> Yes. >> And okay, I can eat. So it goes down.

Oh, we got lights and water. Oh, I'm okay. Oh, we get to pay the rent. Oh, we're going to be okay. Oh, and I can pay the car. Oh, and we pay the payment.

Yeah, we just can't get extra on it. Oh, okay. >> It's when your body feels like it's being acted upon, it goes into panic.

When it knows that you're taking action, it it might be might still be scary. It might still be frustrating, but it won't send you into panic because it knows you're driving. >> Yeah. Bad news or tough news that's

clear is way less stress inducing than

not knowing. than not knowing. It's all right.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Susan is in Jacksonville, Florida. Merry Christmas, Susan.

>> Merry Christmas and God bless.

>> Bless you. How can we help?

>> So, I wrote you an email. I am 57 years

old. I um >> You're what? You're 57.

>> I'm 57. I'm 57. 57. 57 years old.

>> Okay. >> I thought you said 67. That was going to be bad for all of us.

>> So, um I never thought about retirement.

It was just something not in my in in my

vocabulary.

Um, I spent my 20s and 30s having a good time. Um, very unusual. But now that I'm

57, I'm starting to think about things I should have thought of a long time ago.

So, I have a little bit in savings. I have a little bit in an IRA. And my question is, is it too late for me to think about retirement?

>> Yeah, it's over. You're just so old.

You're so old, Susan. You're so old. If you can't do anything, >> you need to go to the bar and find you somebody cuz it's over for you.

>> Of course not. Of course not. Now,

obviously it would have been better if you started when you were 27, but that's in the rearview mirror. So, let's just deal with what we got. What do you make a year? >> I make $50,000 a year.

>> Okay. Okay. So, if you save 15% of that, that's 7500 fully fund a Roth IRA tax-free growth in a good growth stock

mutual fund. And if you do that for the next um 10, 15 years, you're going to have a pretty sizable chunk of money.

>> Okay. >> Probably a million dollars.

>> Seriously? >> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, $7,500 a year into a Roth IRA.

>> Mhm. in good growth stock mutual funds.

>> Okay, >> jump online with at ramseysolutions.com and click on smartvetor and those are those are investment advisors that we

uh uh endorse. They don't work for us

but we vetted them and they have the heart of a teacher. And I want you to become a student of this. It's not rocket science. You can do it. I can do it. Everybody can do it. and just sit down and learn how that mutual fund works and learn how that Roth IRA works and have it automatically drafted out of your checking account. And if you get any raises in the future, and you probably will, increase the amount that you're saving, clear your debts, get the house paid off, and if you come into 70

years old, 13 years from now, with a

pile of money in your Roth IRA and a paid for house, you're going to be in really good shape.

>> Okay, sounds good. But you but you're going to have to concentrate on it like you said for the first time.

>> Well, one of the things too is that I don't own a home anymore. I sold my house. Um so I rent well I will be

renting right now. I Why

um I don't know to be honest. It was I was living it was just getting too crazy. >> Um >> what was crazy?

>> Well, my business suffered dramatically during the pandemic. I had a catering business >> and so when the pandemic hit, I lost

$4,000 a month in income in a blink of an eye. >> And I had a very difficult time bouncing back. >> Are you bounced?

>> I'm still I'm still trying to get back on track. >> Why? Five years later.

>> It's when you're in the hospitality industry and I >> No, honey. We we we pay thousands and tens of thousands of dollars to caterers every year. I don't know one I don't know one that hadn't bounced back.

>> Yeah. I don't know why. I I I don't That's one of the mysteries that I don't know why. Um I think I've been making some poor decisions. >> Yeah. Like you're still living in the

trauma and the pain. Got PTSD from the

pandemic. Me too, by the way.

>> But um I mean every time I hear the word Fouchy, I still want to flip. So, um,

you know, it's just, uh, somebody if I see somebody in a mask, I just go crazy.

So, I mean, I understand. But,

but anyway, all right, Susan, I did the math for you. Okay. How much is in your IRA right now?

>> 50 57,000.

>> Oh, 57. That's even better. All right, check this out. You ready?

>> Uh-huh.

>> 57,000. I'm going to put in here 75. I'm

on the Ramsay investment calculator.

>> 7500 a year. at 7,500 a year. At 77

years old, okay.

>> Uhhuh. >> If you put 625 bucks a month, that's $7,500 a year. You're going to have $1,50,000.

>> Okay? And that's going to be enough for me in retirement. >> It'll be more than you have now.

>> Okay? Okay.

>> And you're going to have more than that because you're going to get the catering business moving again. You're going to get over the PTSD, start smiling and cooking again. I appreciate that. >> Yeah. You got you go get this. Go get those customers back. Don't let some other caterer have them.

>> Okay. >> You want me to give you I want to give you a wild homework assignment. You ready? >> Yes. >> Do you live by yourself right now?

>> I do. >> I want you to write a letter to your 77year-old self and tell her about what you decided to do at age 57 so that she could have a million dollars in retirement.

>> Okay, I can do that.

>> Called these weird guys on a podcast. I went to their website. I got a Smart Invest Pro. I got my business kicked in the butt and moving again. And I put started putting 7500 a year away. And I even put more than that away because later on I started making so stinking much money. I wanted to have a million faster than 77. I didn't want to I wanted to get it at 67. So, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. That's going to get you there after it. Pretty cool. That's a good idea. Write yourself a letter.

There's something powerful about getting out of your body and putting it on the on imagining yourself at 77 sitting in

that same crummy recliner you got and thinking I can go to sleep tonight cuz I got a million dollars in retirement right now. >> Yeah. And let's talk about owning a home during that time again. >> Yeah. >> When when it is appropriate for you.

Yeah. So yeah, it it's um

it's very real though to emotionally

uh still have scars from the economic

damage that was done to your life during the Fouchy pandemic. >> Well, it it it's you can't you can have everything in line and then all of a sudden you wake up on a Monday and you can't go to work anymore. Yeah. >> Or all of your business goes away. Right. And that that could be the same I know people are panicking all over the country about AI like I'm just going to wake up tomorrow my job will be gone and

um that could be paralyzing and that goes back to the thing we were talking about in an earlier segment. Feel that that fear is real fine and then get on about the next right thing which is get after it. I tell you what man we spend so much time with millennials and Gen Z's that um the every article I I've

read probably five different things this week that were credible. I think I'm really starting to believe there are going to be more millionaires created by AI than any other technology disruption to come along. >> There's a very real possibility.

>> I think some people are going to use AI like people, you know, people use the internet and digital to access and to start a business that they never would have dreamed prior to that and became millionaires. This is exponentially

>> that times a billion. Yeah. >> Exponentially larger. >> Yeah. And so I think the opportunity of AI is so huge that it offsets what little bit of pain is going to come from that. That's the plan. Wow. Yeah. Go get

you some.

That's a plan.

Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Why Rei? If you've

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That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

Not in all states. >> Oh, I love this question, Dave. This one's for you. Today's question comes from Sam in Michigan.

Sam writes, "My 16-year-old son, who's an avid listener of the Ramsay Show, has been buying and fixing up cars since he was 14." Good for him, man. He recently refurbished a Trans Am. >> Oh, man. >> And is conflicted about what to do with it.

>> Oh, me too. >> He wants to turn on Whit Snake and have somebody dance on the hood. So, part of him wants to >> Smokey and the Bandit. What are you talking about?

>> And move on to the next project. But the other part of him wants to take it to the racetrack and enjoy the fruits of his labor. car is about onethird of his net worth.

I kind of want to let the kid drive the car. That's just my thought. But >> so yeah, I mean the Trans Am had a 455

in it. It's a freaking >> If y'all are listening to this, >> click over to YouTube and watch it cuz Dave's smiling away. >> Huge engine in that thing. That's the Smokeoky and the Bandit car. Bert Reynolds, Sally Fields, the whole thing. That's the car. >> Yeah. >> And the thing would it's if if he put it

back together the way it was originally, it's incredible. Yeah. Um Okay. So, what

Dave can >> So, what what is the wise thing to do here? Okay. The important part of this

whole story is not the car.

>> Correct. It is the kid.

This kid has already figured out that he

is the secret sauce, not the vehicle.

He's just he he can so he'll be able to

land on his feet no matter where he lands, no matter where he goes, no matter what he does. So this car

onethird of his net worth when he's freaking 16 years old.

>> Who has a net worth at 16 years old?

Nobody. So let's not worry about this, right? So the I I think he continues to

learn lessons that teach him that he is

the variable, not the car. >> Yes. >> And so I think you enjoy the car. Not just because I'm a car freak and I think this is a very cool car. But all that aside, I'm not saying it because I'm thinking what I want this 16-year-old to come away with is not build up something

and then protect it and guard it. Build

up something, enjoy it, and know that the reason I got this is not because of dumb luck. It's because of my effort.

>> I worked hard. And can I can I say this?

If he goes out and blows it up at 16, that might be the greatest thing that ever happened to him. >> And he learns the lesson. >> What a great lesson he'll learn. >> Yeah. go. Well, next time I'm not going I don't know that he's going to blow it up. I mean, just cuz he puts on race track, he could wreck it, I guess, but >> or he may devalue it or whatever, but >> yeah, but he fix it back up.

>> But I mean, he has learned that I can

I had a guy speak one time. He said that everything that's created is created twice. It's first created in your mind.

>> Huh. >> And then you physically create the thing. >> Yeah. And what he has figured out is is that he can create something in his mind and then cause that future to occur. The cause and effect of hard work, the cause and effect of thinking out into the future and not just being distracted by all the stuff that other people are distracted with, which is stupidity everywhere, right? >> And instead, this guy actually says, "Okay, I can buy this, fix it, and turn it into something." And what I learned

from that is that that that I have the

ability to affect my own future, a locus

of control >> both for financially and for joy, for fun. >> For for joy, for fun, for dignity, for

uh the the the uh uh pure satisfaction

and honor of a job completed and well

done.

And uh when he can get all of that crap going already at 16, this guy's going somewhere. >> And here here's the thing that >> you apply this to building a skyscraper, right? It's the same exact thing. >> But but if here's what the the lost cost

here is. Um >> Sam can flip or Sam your son can flip this thing and sell it and get on to the next thing. But what you might be also missing out on is yes, he's going to go have fun and drive fast around a racetrack. kid loves cars obviously, but he's going to get around other drivers and he might get around other drivers that are like, "Hey, can you work on my car? Hey, could you I know a guy who can help with and so by being around other

car guys, that's going to elevate his entire game and maybe get him out of your garage and into his own shop. I mean, there's so many other >> if this is his destiny, >> right? That's right. >> If he never works on another car again, but all he gets out of this whole thing is is that he understands he controls things. >> Yeah. >> He controls his destiny. He creates it in his mind and then he causes his future to come to pass. That is money.

Yeah, >> that's money in the bank right there.

>> And so, yeah, I'd go to the racetrack.

Um, he might bump into Shelby.

>> Yeah, that's what I mean.

>> And he might bump into Ferrari of the future. >> And Sam, can I tell you something that would really honor the 16-year-old? Ask him if you can sit in the passenger side on the first ride.

That would be cool. Man, I don't know if I could do that. >> That'd be cool. Hang on tight. But that would be >> I could I could I could drive it, but I don't think I could sit there. Oh god. >> Yeah, >> that makes my stomach hurt.

16-year-old in a Trans Am.

>> But a 16-year-old looking over and seeing his dad smiling real big.

>> Give me a slow lap and then I'll get out and then you can go. Okay, >> let's cook it. Let's cook it. >> Oh man, that's great.

I I got to tell you, Sam, you ought to be proud of him and it has nothing to do with the car and it has nothing to do with the racetrack. you just ought you've done a good job with him and he's obviously a great young man and I predict huge things for this guy. I think he's a stud. All right, Katie's with us in Phoenix.

>> Hey Dave, uh my question is about how to decide between paying off our house versus using the proceeds from a rental sale to reinvest in real estate. So a

few weeks ago you mentioned using cash on cash return to decide whether to keep or sell a rental. My husband and I have a rental in another state which gives us a 4% return which is far from the 8 to 10% return you recommend.

>> So we're planning on listing it for 750K in January. >> Cool. >> Uh it's paid it's paid for, but if we sell it and use the proceeds to pay off our primary house where we still owe 440K, we'd owe about 71K in taxes

because we've already taken 90K in depreciation. And like you, we hate giving the government any more taxes than we need to. Um, our other option is to use 550K of the proceeds to buy two

rental properties here in Arizona. Um, we already have one rental condo here that performs well. That would drop our taxes to about 16K and save us roughly 55K in taxes. We'd still be able to put

139K towards the mortgage and stay on track to pay the house off by late 2027.

Um, but if we follow baby step six strictly, we'd pay off the mortgage first and then we'd only have about 193K left, which isn't enough to pay for property and cash and we'd have to pay taxes. And we love real estate and want to grow our portfolio. So, what would you recommend we do?

>> So, 250 buys one unit because you had 500 buying two units, right?

>> Yeah. So, there's one for like 250 and one for 300.

And you could do a 1031 on just one of them and and offset the taxes.

>> Also true. Yeah. But we'd still have to pay some. >> Yeah. Some. But you'd offset a bunch of it. $250,000 worth and or the taxes on

250,000. Not 250,000 in taxes, but the

Yeah, you can shelter that much of it.

And if I did my math right,

um what you've got it dialed in. You've done a really good job. So, I had I was doing this in my head while you got it in front of you, but the It sounds like you could do a 250 unit and just about pay off the house, can't you?

>> Um, probably pretty close.

>> Yeah. And what what other savings have you got that's non-retirement?

>> Um, we have probably 900k in the stock market that we don't really want to liquidate. >> Oh, jeez.

So, this is a false dichotomy.

>> Oh my god. Roll it all into a dad gum

1031, pay no taxes,

and get you an get you an ROI and take enough out of the stupid stock market to pay off your house. >> But they got to pay capital gains on the stocks. >> Yeah, but nowhere near like you're talking about on this other You haven't got 100% gains in those things. And you've you've not got an adjusted basis where you've depreciated down your basis either. those stocks.

It's other way around. So, I I think you probably got some some last in stocks, the last ones in that have got the least gain that are nowhere near the tax implications of this. You got to crunch the math on it, but definitely I'm doing at least one rental unit on a 1031 and taking the balance out of the stocks. I might do all of it and take the balance out of the stocks.

Hey, where'd all your money go in 2025?

You don't know?

I would make you normal.

Normal's broke, by the way. Next year can be different. Get a head start by downloading Every Dollar. Every Dollar builds you a personalized plan and coaches you to find the extra money and work the Ramsey plan and then put it to work. Beat debt, build wealth.

You're going to find thousands of dollars in the first 15 minutes after you open it and follow through follow through the the onboarding process.

We're going to help you get started, baby. And then we're going to hold your hand and go do this, then do that. And it's got the same great budgeting features, but it's going to help you work the plan.

New improved. Don't miss this. Don't go another year feeling broken stress.

Start every dollar for free in the App Store or on Google Play. Billy's in Fort

Worth. Hi, Billy. Merry Christmas.

>> Hey, Dave. Merry Christmas to you as well, sir. >> What's up?

>> Well, I came into a little bit of money and um I want to see if I should pay off

uh my debt, my house, and a couple of notes and whatever. And then I'm not sure what to do with the leftover. Um, I'm not too big on wanting to do uh

stocks and stuff like that, but that's what I wanted to talk to you about. >> What's a little bit of money?

>> Um, well, I have uh 52,000 in a savings

account and then I got 420 in an

insurance settlement >> lump sum.

>> Yes. >> That's a lot of money, Billy.

>> Well, yeah, it is to me and my wife.

We've never had that before. That's why I'm >> That's Wow. What happened? >> Anything to do with that? Yeah, it was um a personal injury fell and broke some

disc in my neck and lower back.

>> How you doing?

>> I'm doing much better now. I did one surgery on the neck and have another upcoming one on the back soon, but other than that, I'm doing okay. Really?

>> Wow. What do you do for a living?

>> Um I'm medically retired. I had cancer.

Um so I'm 60. My wife is 69. Uh, so I

took a kind of an early retirement because of some complications that I've run into as well. Um, I may work again,

but I'm really limited in what kind of work I can do. Um, I was in water treatment uh, working for the city for

her whole career. And so I have um,

uh, 4,000 a month in pension income and my wife is 3,500 a month in her job. Um,

so we combined like 7,500 a month in income. >> So you can easily live on that.

>> Yes. >> And how much debt do you have?

>> Um, 150 on the house,

uh, 60,000 on a a piece of land that we bought next to the house, and 33 on a car. That's all the debt that we have.

So we're like 244 in debt.

>> Okay. >> And I think if we paid everything off, that would leave us with what? 225 or so. >> Yes, sir. That's what we're That's what we're not sure what to do with or should we not pay that off and do something else? >> No, I would pay I'd pay everything off under the condition that the two of you

promise each other starting today that

you're going to live on a written budget on the Every Dollar app the rest of your life. >> Okay. >> No buying anything on debt ever. No.

>> Again? >> No. >> Because now you got 7,500 and zero bills.

Well, I guess our if we paid everything off, I think our monthly living expenses would be around 2,000 a month. That's what >> Yeah. You got 7500 coming in.

>> Yeah. You got 7,500 coming in a month.

4,3500, right?

>> Yes. Correct, sir. >> Okay. And so, you budget that and you continue to invest and grow in your

retirement. you grow some wealth and uh

you use the fact that you don't have any debt to grow you know substantial wealth in the next 10 years and we're going to use that 225 to start that o to start with that there are three things you can do with money and anytime I have excess money I tried to do some of all three

I can be generous with it generosity

ought to always be part of your financial plan giving

to others money.

Secondly, I can have fun with it. And it sounds like you're overdue for some fun.

>> No. >> And thirdly, I can invest it.

What are you two driving?

>> Um, we have a 2024 Toyota Rav and then

I've got a 22-y old pickup that I drive around. >> Okay. Do you need to upgrade the pickup?

>> No. high. It's It's perfect for, you know, for me and running around town, what I do, you know.

>> Okay. Well, if you need to spend $10,000 and upgrade the pickup, this might be the time. >> Mhm. >> And $10,000 is not exactly a new F-150.

Okay. >> I'm just saying move up out of the beater that you're driving. But you can do whatever you want to do. But that you could use some of the money for something like that. You could take a trip that you've always talked about taking. Uh, and you could give some

money to the homeless shelter or to the orphanage or whatever. I don't care.

Some ministry that you want to support.

And then the rest of it, I'm going to sit down with a Smart Investor Pro. Go to ramseyolutions.com.

Get someone in your corner and begin to learn about investing. Do not put money

in something you don't understand. And don't do it because I said do it. You do it because you you learn about it. you understand it. It's really not that hard to understand. You can do it and uh understand what a mutual fund is and how it works and how to pick one. Smart Vtor Pro is in order to get our Ramsey

trusted endorsement, they have to have the heart of a teacher. We will not send

you to somebody who just says do it because I said so. We want them they they want you to understand it or they don't want you to do it.

>> And so I want you to take a little time with that. There's no rush. you can just park it in a high yield savings account until you figure out the investing you want to do and and what I'm going to spend and what I'm going to give. And uh but I would pay off the debts immediately and I get on a budget immediately.

Um I don't think you're going to be an overspender, Mr. 22-year-old truck guy.

I don't think that's going to be a problem for you. Okay. >> No, no. I I don't think you're going to go like hog wild and crazy or something.

So, I think you're going to be okay. But I want you to have a plan to replace the truck and then replace the car someday.

I want you to have a plan for Christmas.

I want you to have a plan for some vacations. You deserve them. I want you to have a plan for some generosity. And I want you to have a plan for some investing out of that 7 $7,500 a month that you got to work with.

And so that's your budget. And then um but you're going to have, you know, substantial money in the next 10 years if you do this basic things right here. It's a really really good position. I'm sorry you got hurt so badly, man.

>> Yeah. And Billy, are are you going to be responsible for all these other surgeries and whatnot?

>> Uh one more. >> Yeah, that's what this other one was for. Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, do you need to keep some of that liquid for these future surgeries and challenges? >> Um it's just um I'd like a 20% co-ay for

my insurance. So, um, you know, I'm estimating maybe 10,000 or so I would have be having to pay out of pocket. I I don't really know. >> That sounds right. Well, make sure you've got that allocated, too. >> Yeah. And again, it goes back to what Dave was saying. Just be intentional and have a plan. Have a plan. Have a plan.

Have a plan. And the foundation that plan is going to sit on a concrete and and and iron foundation of we don't

borrow money.

>> Right. Right.

That's that's exactly right. I agree with that. So you would put the bulk of it into mutual funds. If I would with the Smart Investor Pro, >> I would I would after everything's paid off after you have some fun and do some generosity. Yes.

>> Are those low risk?

It's not like regular stocks in the stock market or anything. >> It is the stock market, but it's as low a risk as buying a home.

>> Okay, gotcha. Okay. Okay. Well, I will um I will check for a Smart Investor Pro on the website and get started from there. >> Billy, if it makes you feel better, I use a Smart Investor Pro. And so do I. >> And that's where I put my money.

>> So do I. So yeah. So here's the thing.

Like you take a look folks at uh some of the growth in income funds or even some of the growth funds and say, "Okay, in the last 50 years, how many down years

did they have and what's the total up

and you will find it's as safe as your house. There's no guarantees. You don't have a guarantee. You don't have a guarantee. When you bought a house, they go up, they can go down. And sometimes they go down. If you the neighborhood goes away and people start misbehaving around you and that kind of stuff, the values can go down. You can have all kinds of problems, right? And um yeah,

somewhere in there is what I'm looking for. Wow, Billy, I'm sorry you went through that.

Uh-huh.

Our

scripture of the day, Philippians 2 3 and 4. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility, value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests, but each of you to the interest of others.

Jordan Peterson says, "Perhaps you are overvaluing what you don't have and undervaluing what you do have." Lex is

with us in Denver. Hey, Lex, how are you?

>> Uh, hello Dave. I'm doing well. How about yourself? >> Just the same, sir. How can I help? Merry Christmas.

>> Merry Christmas to you as well. Um, so I

find myself in an interesting situation to where I'm discovering your channel at a time in my life um with an interesting

economic situation kind of hanging over our heads.

Uh, I've been fortunate enough to acquire some, uh, decent wealth over the

last seven years when I got out of credit card debt. And I'm looking this year to probably be right at about a million dollars in net worth. Uh, with

about 1.3 thank you with about $1.3

million in uh, debt. Um, vast majority

of it is in within the real estate. Um

but um the more I'm listening to your show, the more I'm starting to realize that I might have bought some stressors in my life with um with the ability to

get to where I was. Now I got to figure out how to maybe uh tighten up the debt.

And I was hoping you might be able to give me a few pointers on which direction to head to.

>> Okay. Sure. Well, I I love real estate

and I made a fortune like you in my 20s

in the real estate business and I lost it all because I had too much debt at that point. At the high point of that, I had a $4 million uh portfolio with uh

about $3 million worth of debt. So, I had a 75% equity or 75% loan to value

situation and I was 26 years old. So,

how old are you?

>> Um 33. About to be 34.

>> Okay. All right. and I was doing a lot of flips and so I had short-term notes and the banks called our notes and it caused us to lose everything in the next two and a half years. So, uh, and then, you know, we started this whole thing living on less than we make, being debtree and all that stuff 30 plus years ago. That was 1988 when I went bankrupt.

It's how long ago it was. And so, I've watched my friends in the real estate business. My family was in the real estate business. That's how I got into it. I love real estate and I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate today. all debt free. So, uh I've

reversed that course many times over, but it's still an interesting journey I've been on and it and I'm honored to get to talk to someone that has done as well as you have at this age. And congratulations. Very well done. So I I'm always going to go towards less debt

to no debt because I have less to no stress that way and my sustainability is

greater because uh a lot of times in the real estate business we don't perceive the risk that debt creates.

A lot of real estate people I always laugh and say their risk meter got broken. It doesn't even work anymore.

They don't even measure risk anymore. They just go, "Oh, more more more." And that's what I was doing. You yours is 50%. And so you're not as bad off as I was. You're in much better shape than I was at that time. Um, tell me about the real estate that you own. What is it?

>> Um, yes. So,

um, and I was kind of following your journey. That's kind of where I find myself too is that my next plan was to buy more and more uh, third and fourth property to try to leverage the debt to

get enough passive income to kind of buy my freedom, if you will. >> Mhm. Um, but yeah, I'm I'm glad I found your show. Uh, I have uh two properties.

One of them is a single family house that I essentially converted into um up down duplex >> and I have a forplex that are both currently cash flowing.

>> Uh, however, I'm noticing that in Denver in particular, uh, rents are starting to take a big downturn.

>> Um, really due to some of the economic stressors. Yeah. Just last week, we had a a brand new um apartment complex that

uh got foreclosed on by a bank and the investors lost $125 million cuz probably

bad management, but also bad investing, over leveraging. And so >> I'm seeing uh rents around town, especially for like luxury places, go off 20 30% off where last year they

would have been rented for upwards of $3,000. Now they have 25 2300. Mhm.

>> dollars a month. And >> so you own two properties that are worth $2 million.

>> Uh just about. Yeah. Just just under 2 million. >> Okay. And you have mortgage on each of them? >> Yes. >> Okay. What's the mortgage on the duplex?

>> On a duplex, I got it back right around COVID. So I have 2.3% rates. Uh just

right around 500. Uh value

>> as a duplex. what the cash flow is. It's probably right around 750.

>> Okay. And so the other one's worth uh 1.3 >> uh slightly less. Uh probably closer to like 1.1 or so with about 700 on it. And

then I have >> And then I have about 300 in investments between my IRA and stockings. Okay. And

stock market. Okay. And >> And what do you make? Are you what's your career? >> I'm a mechanical engineer. And so you're making 200 >> uh 125 or so.

>> Oh, okay. All right. Cool. All right.

And you're married?

>> No. >> Okay. Good for you. Okay. Cool. All right. So, there's a couple ways you can go at this. The biggest thing I want you to do is I want you to perceive that those debts equal risk. More debt equals

more risk. Less debt equals less risk.

So, point being that on the forplex you

owe um 700. If you owed 1.1 on it and

it's worth 1.1, you'd have more risk.

Agreed.

>> Because the cash flow would dry up due to the debt service >> and it's not as sustainable and you can't get out of the stupid thing because you're leveraged up to your eyeballs. In your case, you got about a 30% equity in that particular position.

The other one's about the same as a matter of fact. So, can't figure out where the million dollar net worth is.

You must have a pile of cash somewhere.

>> Uh, yes. So roughly

there's about 400 of equity on that 1.15

property, 250 on that 750 property.

>> Yeah, that's what I got. >> And I have 350 in stocks and retirement

equally. >> Okay. 300 350 in stocks.

>> Or how much in retirement? How much in stocks? >> About equal split. So about 150 in stocks and like one a little closer to 200 in IRA. >> Okay. And you continue to like both of these properties as they've got a good future.

>> Uh yes. Yes. The the forplex got really

really good cash flow and the good upside for the future too. And the um the single families got really low rates. So it overperforms the um average

inflation. >> Good. Good. Okay. I like I like all that. That's good analysis. All right.

So there's a couple of ways you can go.

One is you can just say, "All right, I'm going to systematically start clearing the debt on these two." So, I'm gonna reach over and pay that duplex off as I'm gonna throw 175 at it

today. And I'm going to reach over and get it paid off in the next couple of years. And then I'm going to take all that cash flow and I'm going to reach over and start working on the forplex and get it paid off. When it's paid off, I'm going to take this incredible cash flow because I got zero debt and I'm going to buy my next property with cash.

That's going to slow down the number of properties, but it's also going to lower the amount of hassle you have per dollar,

>> right? >> Because if you got 25 renters instead of five renters, you got a different hassle level in your life. Agreed.

>> Yeah. Yeah. The idea is at some point I'm probably going to retire off my engineering or go down to working minimum just the jobs I like uh and then concentrate a little bit on real estate.

>> That's okay. Right now you're 33 and you're a mechanical engineer.

>> You know, that's what I would do. If you want to get even more radical, you would sell one of the properties and pay off the other one and then start from there and go cash on. >> And I have an allergy to risk, so that's what I would do.

>> Yeah. But I I I you know, I'm okay with you starting with a plan to say, I'm going to work my way out of this debt and every time I lower the debt balance, my I've lowered my stress life and I've lowered my probability of problems and everything else. And um if you dislike

one of the properties, I'd cash it in and throw it at the other one. But you seem to like both of them and so that does, you know, you can you could go that way. Either way is fine with me.

But no, I'm not going to go buy six more like this. That's That's a recipe for problems. A serious problems.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 121. Normal Is Broke—Don't be Normal! | October 28, 2025


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform [music] your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with personal finance expert and good friend Jade Warshaw. So, we're answering your questions. You can give us a call at8825-55225.

All right, starting off, we have Nick in Kansas City. Hey, Nick. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, how are you guys doing?

>> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Uh, so I've had a life insurance, I

believe it's a whole life insurance policy that my dad had started for me in about 2008.

We've been paying about $500 a month into that policy since then. And I was

look looking at it with my representative and I only have about 150

in there, but I've had it for so long

that I don't it from the research I've

been doing, it feels like I should have been um should have never done it, but

it seems like it's mostly front-loaded.

And so I don't know if I should stay into that, pull that money out, put it into something different, and also what I could do, what kind of products I could explore now that I'm making more money than way back in 2008, what I should be putting my money into. I've kind of decided I want to start a Roth IRA for my wife and I and to start and then I have some extra money after that and I wouldn't know where to go after that. So, you said the cash value is only 150k.

>> Only 500. >> And how much did you say you've paid in?

>> 500 a month. >> Oh my gosh. Over since 2008.

>> Yes. >> Oh my word. Yeah. I mean, I'd get I almost 18 years. Yeah. I try to get out of it immediately today.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, for sure. I mean, these are it is it's one of the worst financial products honestly that's out there. I mean, when you look at whole life or universal life, it's so crappy because what you're seeing is exactly what people experience because they're trying to mix an investment with insurance and you never end up you never get ahead. You really don't. And so, versus if you had taken a

you know, um you know, just a a policy that Yeah. a term policy that's so

significantly cheaper and getting as much coverage. I mean, if you're a healthy young guy, you're you're only going to pay 2030 bucks a month. Like, it's not a lot. And if you had invested that remaining amount just in a mutual fund or in an index fund or a brokerage account, like what it would have been with the market. So, I think I'm sorry to say, Nick, that Yeah, I feel like you're experiencing the the crappy product that whole life insurance is.

>> And if you [clears throat] were to get out of it, um, is your next question.

Have you researched doing that? Because different companies, I mean, there's different holdings and fees and all of it. Have you looked at if you just went ahead and cashed it out? >> A little bit.

>> Yeah, a little bit. I have. And I it I'll be honest. That's why I've called you guys because I am so confused about the penalties, the I I just I'm I'm so confused.

I feel like I've made a lot of good decisions in my life, but this was one horrible one. >> Yeah, I would call them today. I mean, obviously you you would you're going to lose the death benefit like because you're canceling the policy, but some of that cash value should end up rolling to you minus fees. Um, so I would call and find out exactly what that is and then once you feel good about the information, yeah, just cancel it because it's not serving you.

>> It would have been closer to $300,000.

So, I think we both agree that that wasn't the best way to invest that money. And then if you're looking for

coverage, Yeah. then just go to term coverage. >> Yeah. I would contact Xander, Nick, Xander Insurance, because they'll shop their mortgage. They basically shop companies to get you the lowest rate for a term life. And I would go ahead and do that. I would do a term life before you cancel the whole life just because you have a wife. Do you have kids?

>> Yeah, I have two kids. >> Yeah. So, I would make sure before you cancel the whole life policy, get a term in place. Again, it's going to be very inexpensive.

You and your wife both need a policy >> and um yep, do that. Then cancel the whole life. And once you get that cash out, like what Jade's saying is then you can start applying it actually to invest that's actually going to make you money.

life insurance? What was the intent? was >> the intent. Well, my dad did it with one

of his uh friends and he was pay he's

been paying for it for most of this time. I didn't I worked for him for my father, but I didn't actually uh I mean, I wasn't making a lot of money until maybe 2017.

And since then it's been everything's been great, but it the insurance was

just to make sure that after I was married and that all anything that I had

debt-wise was going to be paid off.

>> Yeah. So that's that's a good word to the wise. Um when you're purchasing insurance, it should just be that. It doesn't have to be married with any other sort of investment thing.

Insurance is insurance. Investments are investments. They're separate uh deals there. And so just knowing that going forward, I mean, it's a really good call and a really good question because I think people get caught up in whole life all the time. >> Yeah. So the next step, Nick, when we're talking about investing, do you guys have an emergency fund in place?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So >> probably too much. >> Probably too much is what you said. You're just covered, Nick. You're just covered. Covered all all the way around. >> I've done, like I said, I've done I've made a lot of good decisions in my life.

>> Sure. >> But this my retirement is not one of them. >> Okay. So then we let's be looking at that next. >> Yes. So the Roth IRA you mentioned. Yes, absolutely. And your wife, even if she's not working, she can open up a spousal >> uh Roth IRA. So I would do those two as well. I think the limit this year if you get it all in place is 8,000.

>> Um and it may sometimes it changes year to year, but you can yeah fully fund that if you can. I mean for this year, which would be amazing. >> Um and then be looking into do you have a 401k at work?

>> My wife has a 401k. Okay.

>> I do not. >> You do not. Okay. Perfect. So, just as a as a household, you know, you want to be investing 15% of your income. So, I would do those Roths first. Then your wife needs to be looking at her 401k and go go ahead and go up to the match as well, which you guys can do both. Yep.

That's great. And then anything beyond that, you guys can continue to throw money at her 401k [snorts] if it's a Roth. That's a great option.

And then some people, you know, want flexibility outside of retirement. Um, so you could look into other options like, you know, an index fund, a brokerage account, a mutual fund, but all of those again, they're not going to have the tax advantage like retirement.

So, we would say 15% of your income needs to be going straight into retirement. So, that is 401ks, Roth IAS, and then anything above that once you guys pay off your house and everything, um, you can look into into some other options, which I feel like you guys I mean, like you said, you're smart. I mean, you guys have made some great decisions so far. It's just this whole life policy sucks and I feel like you're feeling the >> repercussions of that.

>> Okay, >> awesome. Well, thanks for the call, Nick. I appreciate it. So, yeah, you guys, if you if you're looking at life insurance, again, term life is the way to go.

It's so inexpensive. Winston and I just upped ours again. I think it was probably three years ago >> and we had someone come to the house because you got to do all your health stuff, you know, to prove all your health. >> Um, and yeah, and we get it back.

I'm like, oh my gosh. Cuz we even upped the amount. We went ahead and upped the amount of what we were and it was so inexpensive.

Yeah, it's not bad. >> Yeah. So, if you're able to do that, you guys, so worth it. And again, Xander Insurance is a great place. It's the place Winston and I use to shop our health insurance. Uh because they shop multiple companies. It's not just looking at one company. They're looking all all over to get you the best rate possible. [music] Um so, yep. So, Nick, that's what I would do for your family and anyone else listening.

[music]

>> [music]

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[music] It's official. The Ramsay Christmas cash giveaway is here. So each

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>> All right, let's go to Matthew in Dayton. Hi, Matthew. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. My question is, is it worth taking out a car loan to avoid being in a never-ending loop of cheap cars and insurance payouts? And I can give some backstory on this if you'd like. Sure.

>> Yeah. So, um I just got married 22 days ago. Uh congratulations. My wife has had her Thank you.

>> My wife's first car she had for three years and it got totaled at the end of the summer and got we got $5,000 payout for it. >> When you say it got totaled, did she hit somebody or somebody hit her?

>> Um she avoided being in a pileup. And by avoiding being in a pileup, she went into a ditch and the ditch broke some broke the frame. Um, so better the car than her. >> Yeah, for real. >> So that got totaled and we bought her dad's car for for the same price of the insurance payout >> because she was on her parents insurance at the time. So like $5,000 for her dad's car. >> And then this past week, actually, um,

last Tuesday, we came home and a tree was on top of her car that she just bought in August from her parents.

>> And now that car is being totaled for around $5,000.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, I guess um >> Okay. So, it's not crappy cars breaking down, Matthew. You could have wrecked it. She could have gone into a ditch in a nice car. A tree could have fallen on a nice car, right? Bad luck.

>> It's not the It's not the car's fault.

You're not saying that the transmissions keep breaking and you're paying more than the car's worth in fixing it.

>> Mhm. >> So, so no. So, your argument Well, keep going. Do you have a better argument? >> I [laughter] don't think so. Vegas cuz with insurance they're just these cars are so these cars the first car was over 10 years old and this car now we just got told is 10 years old. So insurance isn't going to >> pay to fix body damage or anything like that. >> They're going to give you what it's worth. >> What it's worth. Yeah.

>> Right. So I just um if I just buy another car for the same cash value what it's worth, that's going to put me another spot of if that car gets in an accident or something happens, I'm just going to be in another >> Right. But nothing was wrong with the car to be nothing was wrong with the car to begin with. >> She's staying lateral, which is fine.

>> You didn't call in saying, "Hey, I've had these $5,000 cars and they're just breaking down left and right." You called saying she avoided a pileup. A tree fell. Lightning could hit the next car tomorrow and then they'd pay you out another 5,000. The car is still not the issue. Um, I think the issue is you just want a nicer car and you're hoping that this can give you an excuse to get one.

>> Okay. I haven't thought about it from that perspective. >> I have [laughter] I think that's what you want. I mean, can you tell me other anything other than kind of like these bad luck situations?

I mean, >> like I feel like the argument would be >> the argument would be would be much more convincing, Matthew, even though you could you can't convince us to take out a car payment because what you're going to spend on a new on a car, the interest and all of it is not it's not a good investment.

Almost everyone agrees that a car payment is the worst type of debt you could probably get into because you're paying interest and you're paying more on something that's going down in value.

>> And so that makes no sense versus a house, right? You go and you pay interest on a mortgage. Well, at least for the most part, houses are going up in value slowly, fast, I mean all of it.

But over time, a car goes down. Like people call this show when they're like, "Hey, I went and got a car payment >> for $26,000 and now it's worth 20,000."

I mean, almost all the time people are underwater in cars and so that's because they buy too much car. They buy a car they can't afford and it goes down in value and they can't take the financial hit. They don't have the money to to be able to even, you know, um, absorb that.

That's right. So, so you'll get this next $5,000 payout and you'll go get

another $5,000 car. Now, if you had some extra cash you wanted to put with that and you know you're out of baby step two, I'm not mad at that. What baby step are you on?

>> Um, I'm not sure exact. We have about a thousand. I haven't looked at exactly for baby steps. We have about a thousand in emergency fund. >> Okay, good. >> But we just we just we're paying off our wedding and our honeymoon. We have about 2,000 left on a credit card.

>> Okay. >> Okay. How much is the wedding and honeymoon pay off?

Um, we have about 2,000 left paid. It was probably about a $40,000 wedding and

about $6,000 honeymoon.

>> Okay. But you only have 2,000 left to go. >> Yeah. >> Okay, good. So, we would call that baby step, too. So, in the in the land of baby steps, there's seven of them. The first one you have, which is to have $1,000 saved just between you and life.

And then the second one, yeah, you pay off the debt, smallest to largest. It sounds like you're doing that. And, uh, how quickly can you get this $2,000 paid off? Ideally within the next month.

>> Okay, great. And then after that time of putting paychecks in because we're living within our means and >> good saving money where we need.

>> Any any student loans or anything, Matthew? Any other debt?

>> Yeah, she has about 9,000 in student loans that we >> that >> they were in her junk folder and the mailings of mispayments were going to her old house. And that was a whole whole thing of >> she forgot about the loan and she needed it was quick and she needed to stay in school. >> Is there anything else besides the 9,000?

>> No, but that's it.

>> So everything but the house.

>> How much are you guys making total together, Matthew? You and your wife?

>> 70 takehome.

>> Wonderful. Okay. >> Combined. >> Yeah, that's great. How old are you guys? >> Cuz this she's 23. I'm 22. Okay. So, she

turns 24 here in two months.

>> Okay. >> And I'm just kind of calling in as a as a husband of like, well, we've already had to do >> car searches the last two months and have to deal with all of that.

>> My my main thought was if I take a $5,000 loan or something like that, >> it's not going to change what happened.

>> You're still going to have to do car car research if another tree falls on the car. >> If you bought a $50,000 car in cash today, if a tree falls on it, you're still going to have to replace it >> and they're still going to give you the value of the car. So, I I want you to let go of that. I want you to let that out of your kung fu grip because for some reason you think that getting a more expensive car is the tree is going to be like, "Hold on." [laughter] >> Yeah.

>> We can't fall on a Mercedes. >> It's a It's a Suburban.

>> It's like those commercials. Mayhem.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Mayhem follows you no matter what, my guy. >> I know. [laughter] I know it. Yeah. So, Matthew, I mean, you guys you guys are doing great. I mean, you really are. And I just want you to shift that mindset. If if you start to entertain debt, >> then it is the easiest road to go down because there are people and companies that are wide open willing to accept you and make you feel great and justify

anyway to get you in because they're going to be making so much money off of you. That is the industry. Okay? That is the industry, right?

And so when you can avoid that and you guys are so young and I'm so I'm like please if you can just avoid that you guys together and you make a pact and say we are not going into debt so we're gonna pay cash for our cars. If we have to go on an anniversary trip next year we're going to save up and pay for it. Like >> when you can avoid it and you guys are making 70 grand and you get out of debt and all like you guys are on the positive end then financially.

So don't continue to have these thoughts of debt because it just constantly will financially take you more in the negative and it takes away from your net worth. It takes away um peace of mind and all of it.

implore you to consider just living living debtree and it's not exciting.

The ego is not going to love it. We don't love the $5,000 car. It doesn't make you feel great. It doesn't make you feel successful. Yes. But for a season.

That's for a season. And then you guys can save up cash. Sell the $5,000 car for $5,000 because it's probably what it's still going to be worth. >> That's right. >> Put it with another five and that's a $10,000 car. And then you do it again and again and again until you guys are Yeah. at cars that you love but you're paying cash for them and it's going to be a slower process but man so worth it.

>> Gotcha. I needed to hear this cuz >> cuz I've grew up in a family where you didn't buy car. We only bought cars for cash and that's the same way with herbs and we were just kind of in a pickle of like do we just keep doing this?

>> Yes. Yes, you do. >> I needed to hear that. >> For sure. Yeah. Your parents have set up some great examples. Both of you come from a very similar background and so stick with it. That's why we always say, you know, normal is broke and common sense is weird when we open the show because that's what's happening. [music] So live within your means, Matthew. If you don't have the money, don't buy it.

Don't be under that impression that if I can afford the payment, I can afford it.

No, [music] you have to be able to pay for things in cash.

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Exclusions apply.

in Atlanta, Georgia. We have Joel coming up next. Hi, Joel.

>> Hey there. Thank you for having me. >> Yeah, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Hey, so me and my wife uh have a new six-month old daughter and congratulations.

Thank you so much. We're about $287,000

in student loan debt. Um, and I'm trying to figure out the best um way to tackle this. So, we have the emergency fund, but we recently had a car repair and that zipped that out pretty quick. And so, I'm guess I'm asking, are there times in which the emergency fund should be bigger before you start hammering those student loans?

And then I guess the secondary question is I'm looking at the, you know, income based repayment compared to these large amounts that we're paying on student loans each month. I just kind of uh need a little bit of guidance here. We're trying to decide. >> What did you get?

>> Um my wife is a nurse practitioner, pediatrics, >> and she went to Emory, so you know, >> and um I'm a a film and video editor and my student loans are only about 30,000.

Hers are about 250. Hey, how much is she making a year >> right now? Since she just graduated in December, um she's making about 70 and I am also making about 70. We're making about the same amount right now. >> Okay. >> And she just had a baby >> and she has Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's uh

>> is she is she going to be going back to work making more than 70? Like is that her plan?

>> Yes. So she has started back to work already and that's kind of where she is at now. Hopefully over the next few years obviously that increases as she can take on more patients. Um but that's kind of we're trying to operate with what we have now and trying to look forward to the future. You know how do we how do we prepare for possible other cars and all that sort of thing.

>> You're not doing any kind of investing right now. Are you?

>> Um I do have a 401k at work that I've been um that I stopped contributing to last year while we were moving having the baby and all those things early this year and then I started again. Um, >> so I think you need to pause that because right now if if what you say is true and you're interested and serious about paying off this debt, then that means you need every piece of money that you can get your hands on. And that includes right now, just for the time being, pausing that investing. And trust

me, you'll get to it later. Uh, I'm like you. My husband and I had $280,000 in student loans and we paused investing and it was just a short period of time, but it really does give you the ammunition you need to knock out the debt a lot faster. Um, how much when you

guys get your, you know, your check, that net amount, how much is it every month? Um we bring in about 8,000 total like

among both of us each month and most of that goes out with uh bills daycare because you know she we're both working right >> and then also the student loan debt uh or the student loan payments on hers were about 3,000 a month and I was like you know for the 10-year plan so I took it back down to the 25-year plan that gives us a little bit more breathing room >> fine >>

but once again not enough to save for a car and all the things you know >> so I'm not mad at I'm not mad at you taking advantage of uh taking it down to the 25-year plan to to lower the payments on all of them, but only with

this caveat if you take all of the extra money that it saves you and put it on the smallest debt. So, do you have any debt besides the student loans?

>> No, that's our only debt.

>> And the student loans, I'm guessing, are broken up into smaller student loans.

It's not just one big one for >> Right. Exactly. So, if you make it, if you do the plan, that's the 25-year plan, and let's say it drops it down to what's the payment now from 3,000 down to >> $1,900. >> Okay? 1,900. Now, you can take that extra $1,100 and you can throw it at the smallest student loan at the principal.

Do you see what I'm saying? So, it's giving you more firepower to knock that smallest one out first so it's not getting eaten away with interest. Does that make sense?

>> Yes, absolutely. But should we take a few months first uh to save up a little bit bigger emergency fund? >> How much do you have in your emergency fund now? How much is in there now?

>> Well, it was it was at 1100 this morning, but I had to get a a repair on one of our cars and now it's at like 400. So, >> okay. So, stack it back up to a,000. We found over the course of 25 years, 30

years doing this plan that $1,000 is the sweet spot. It's just enough that if something breaks down with the car, right, Rachel, you can pop in there and get it fixed. But it's also it's not so much that it's taking away from the momentum of you paying off the debt. It might feel like not a lot, but you know, your wife's already had the baby, the baby's healthy, you guys are home, childcare is paid for it.

Like, you can take that that moment and exhale and say, "Okay, like the the risk or the danger is over. $1,000 is good." And then, yeah, if you clip uh $1,900, if you clip that other $1,100 at that student loan, uh you're going to pay it off a lot sooner. And think about how much more you can add to it.

Probably now is not the time for your wife to do overtime with a baby, but >> getting that number up as high as you can because ultimately you guys are the going to be the ones that say, "Okay, if we do it at a rate of $1,100 a month extra, here's how long it's going to take. We're not satisfied with that. So, let's see if we can get it up to $2,200 a month extra. Are we satisfied with that?" Do you see what I'm saying?

And reverse engineer that number to get it where you want it to be. >> Yeah. And Joel, I mean, this is it's a lot. I mean, $300,000 of debt.

Like, it this is going to be a long game for you guys, right? I mean, this is a this is a long journey.

where the upward trajectory >> is massive. Like, I feel like I'm like in that medical field.

>> I would be depending on her in a sense of like because I mean there you can do extra work 100%. And I would I would be I would be taking on extra but >> and I am I freelance that brings like 600 a month.

>> That's awesome. Yes. So for her long-term and when I say longterm I'm saying five to eight years I'm going to be making as much as I can. I mean because to your point I mean she went $250,000 in debt for this degree. And so

and so the upward trajectory of her having a bigger shovel over time is probably going to be more possible. Um >> and that's what's I mean and I'll just be frank with you too, Joel. Like I mean Jade and I are both moms so I'm like that feeling especially your first. Is it your first?

>> Yes.

>> I mean it's just I mean I I think I cried every day [laughter] going in for a little bit like more in the past six months. It's very so emotional and it's so exhausting and and this is not to like pick on you guys, but it's just another example, a real life example literally of you, Joel, in Atlanta with your wife and what debt is freaking doing where if you know in a perfect world, if there was no student loans and we had an 18-year-old girl call in cuz she wanted to go to a private school in Minneapolis that was going to cost like $250,000 to get an undergrad degree and we were like, "Don't do it.

And if and if your wife wants to stay home, it's like it sucks. Now, could you guys choose that? Absolutely. And then it'll take you maybe >> a lot longer, [laughter] >> a lot longer to get out of debt.

But what sucks is that like the debts that she that you know that the student loans are in was in a field and out of school that was very expensive. And again, hopefully she has the opportunity to be making more. Um I mean, that that's the goal, right?

>> Um >> Right. Exactly. >> But it just sucks. You know what I mean? Because there's not it it limits options on what you guys want to do in life. So again, that's not to pick on you. It's just another example of what debt does.

It takes your freedom and it takes your options and it sucks.

>> So So would you So even with a baby, 1,000 you would say is a good round number. I think it's just as a father, you know, it's like I'm I'm a little terrified that we're not >> what you're saying makes sense. I like logically I hear what you're saying, but think about it like this. Let's pretend, let's imagine the [clears throat] the worst thing that could take place, which would be uh like the worst emergency.

I don't know, something with your roof, maybe. >> Right. >> Right. And let's pretend that cost $3,000 to fix.

Well, you've got your emergency fund, but then you've got your actual income. And remember, you're putting an extra. You're paying extra on your debt every month. So, if you said if I have my emergency fund and I stop the extra that I'm paying on my debt for that month just to cover whatever crazy thing could possibly happen and if I pulled back, you know, the purse strings a little bit more and tightened up a little more, I could probably find another $500 $600.

So, you see that there's actually money there. You're just not >> you're taking it out of the mix in order to pay debt, >> but it's there if you were to need it. >> That's a really good point. You see what I'm saying?

Thank you for that. So, you're supposed to stay far away from the IBR and the IDR though, right? Um, the IDR, like I said, the IDR doesn't bother me, especially if you were moving it from the 10-year plan to the 25. That doesn't bother me, but only with the caveat that you're going to use the extra money to pay off the debt.

If you use that money to go out to eat and just inflate your lifestyle, then you are only playing yourself. And I can't stress that enough. >> No, it's a great point. Yeah.

And I think, you know, with a lot of things too, whether even it's medical bills or that kind of thing, you usually have a month or two to be able to, you know what I mean, to pay. So, so sometimes it's not like an immediate expense.

This moment we have to. >> Sometimes you have a little bit of time to your point um that you can get that cash back, but but I get it, Joel. I I know that like mama bear mentality of like I just want to be smart, keep everyone safe and all the things is so good. So true. But that $1,000 that emergency fund stays [music] true no matter what.

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Next up, we have [music] Michael in Boston. Hi, Michael. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. How are you today? We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Doing well. So, I have a question for you. I was just informed a few weeks ago that I'll be getting laid off at the end of the year. My wife and I have Yeah,

it's all good. My wife and I have have about $100,000 in cash right now and just trying to figure out what I should do with that in these uncertain times.

>> Okay. Um, what do you do, Michael?

Um, I worked for a large corporation

in in product management.

>> What were you making?

>> I was making 160,000 plus a 20% bonus.

>> Okay. And does your wife work at all?

>> She does. Yes. And what did she make?

110. She makes $110,000 a year.

>> Okay. And how quickly do you think you can find a new job? Is this something you can start looking for like this week? Yeah, I mean a job and a good job are different things, but I will, you know, um, you know, I did get a decent severance package that can really carry hold me over almost for a whole year.

>> How much was that? >> So, uh, so I have my full salary through

the end of October of next year.

>> Oh, good. And that's not including the one the $100,000 you guys have saved.

>> Correct. Okay, that's really good.

>> That is nice. you're in a I I mean I want to encourage you that you're in a really good position with the severance and with the cash sitting there and the fact that your wife also works. Um I want to caution you though because I don't want that to be a reason to um not

be motivated to really go out there and get a job that was just as good as the other replace income and possibly make more money. I mean what's to stop you from making more uh going into the next season with all of the you know experience that you have in that field?

>> Right. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And that's that's that's one of the goals for sure if opportunities available.

>> So, if I were you, I would be looking tonight um at your budget. Do you guys have a budget?

>> Uh we we have a loose budget definitely, you know, inclusive of the mortgage, um one small car loan, and just other monthly bills. So, what I would do, we'll give you every dollar before you get off the phone tonight, but I want you and your wife to sit down tonight and really plug in all of the numbers because if you can, my goal would be to touch as little of your saved money as possible. Do you guys have like kids at home or what's who all is at home?

>> We we do. We have three kids, uh, 14,

11, and six years old.

>> Okay. So, I would the I would want the goal to be we're gonna touch as little as of this 100,000 as possible. So, in order to figure out what that is, you've got to set a budget for 110 and see,

okay, monthly if we set our budget for whatever wife brings home >> and he'll be getting a severance, too. >> And you'll be getting your severance, too. So, Oh, that's true. Um, >> so not much true. Not much should change. >> Yeah, I would be paying your debt. How much How much you guys have left on your car?

>> Um, we have it's a 2025

and we have about a little less than $10,000 left on that.

>> Okay. Well, I would pay that off tonight. >> That's true. Yep.

>> Uh what other debt do you guys have?

>> That's a four four That's a 4% interest rate. >> I don't care. >> Um the only other Okay. Uh the only

other debt that we have is our is our mortgage. >> Perfect. Okay. So, >> great. >> Yeah. So, what you So, the baby steps, Michael, is the seven steps that we walk people through. So, technically, I think you guys are on baby step four because you guys will be debtree by tonight, correct? because you're going tohead just pay off that car and then your that

that'll be a $90,000 sitting in savings and I would figure out your monthly expenses what you guys you know what you

have and I would go ahead and get a six-month emergency fund just because you got three kids the job thing is kind of in the air six months is plenty because you're still getting paid I mean you're still going to get a salary so I take that whatever that six months is for you um I'm making this up my so just

say it's like I don't know 10,000 so say it's 60,000 you'll 30,000 left and then

with that 30,000 I mean honestly I don't think I would be motivated to feel like I have to keep any more because of a job loss because you're you're suff you're getting paid the same. So it's almost like you haven't lost a job >> technically, right? Because you're still getting a paycheck. So you guys are still living your life.

>> Um is the severance at all tied to if you get new employment anywhere? Like will that stop at all or will you get that plus if you get a new job?

I would get that plus if I get a new job as long as it's not with the same company obviously. >> Okay, that's great. >> Which is awesome. Yeah.

And then I would be funding 15% of your income into retirement and I would count the severance as income, you know? I mean, I would still say, >> um, so I honestly would just I would keep going and then I would put extra on the house. I mean, I would just go through the baby steps. I don't think I would be that alarmed.

>> When I when I first heard you were being laid off, honestly, in my head, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, if you have no savings, you're down to one income." Then there's a lot of shifting that has to take place. That's usually people's situation, but you're getting a nice severance. You guys are going to be debtree. You have a fully funded emergency fund.

So, not much really has to change. Michael, >> I don't feel that urgency.

>> No. I mean, the only thing I'm thinking is you've got to find another job that's going to replace your income and you've got to be on it. That's it, you know.

>> Got it. So would you would you guys take that other 30,000 and put it >> I would probably put it brokerage account like into an S S&T 500 fund or something along those lines or should I just keep the cap? That's where my big decision is right now. >> Okay. So I I almost would do option C, Michael, because if you're funding 15% of your income into retirement, the next step beyond any other investing is to

pay off the house. So I almost would be tempted. How much do you guys have left on your mortgage?

uh 260,000.

>> Okay. Um >> it's a it's a 2.8 it's a 2.85 rate.

>> Okay. Yes. Again the interest rates don't really apply to what we talk when we talk about math it is so behavior change finding peace. Dr. John Deloneyi

one of our other hosts he always says we're solving for peace. And we find when people are completely debtree that is one of the most peaceful places you can be financially versus high stress high financial stress with trying to pay bills and keep up with everything. So, you can do what you want with that 30,000, Michael, that's left. Um, you if

you if you want to open up a brokerage account or something, yes, that is not going to that's not going to hurt. But the next step technically would be to throw anything extra at the house. But, um, but because there is this, you know, again, kind of weird thing with the layoff, if you want to feel extra safe, you can. But I don't feel like you have to have extra padding. You know, when you have a six-month emergency fund and you're still getting paid. >> Yeah, you're still getting paid. Yeah.

There's part of me that might wait until

the it's a storm. It's not the stormiest of storms because of the money. There's part of me that might wait until you land that next job. And then if you do, I mean, what a blessing because you'd be getting the severance plus to pay from your new job.

Then you'd have something to do with this 30,000. Like, you could really do some major damage on your mortgage at that point as far as paying it off.

Awesome.

All right. Well, um, you know, I appreciate I appreciate the advice and y, you know, hopefully good good luck moving forward here. >> Absolutely, Michael. Well, I'm sorry about the job loss, but I'm I'm thankful you guys are in the position you are. You guys have done a great job saving and Yeah. And again, that severance is

so helpful. >> Rachel, let's just take a moment and talk about it because I could tell you're getting um frustrated, not frustrated, but like >> the interest rate, >> the interest rate and and let's talk about that because people get so hung up on I've got this debt, but the interest rate is good. So therefore somewhere in their mind they think they can just string it along because is that 2.2%.

You know that it's not a big deal. It is a big deal. Debt is risk no matter how you slice it. If you are tied to debt that means you have risk associated with your life.

And even if the interest rate is lower, it's actually in many ways more dangerous because you're more uh likely to leave it around and keep it in your life for longer. So just remember guys. >> Yes. And that is debt.

And that is the hard thing because I think, you know, even the question with paying off the house, you know, people, right, you know, they have $60,000 left in the mortgage and they have 70,000 in in non-retirement investments and they're like, "Wait, you want me to just pay off my house?" But I'm making >> up to like 20% this last year, you know, and my mortgage is the old interest rate of 3%. Like I could be making a 17% spread. And so the calculations come into place.

We get that. Totally get that. That makes sense mathematically. But what is never calculated again is the emotions

around money, which is what what Chad's Yeah. Uh the emotions around money, the stress around money, the peace that you have around it. And so um so we can play

the math game all day long, but that's even one reason we talk about you pay off the smallest debt first, not the highest interest rate. Like it's not a math problem. Majority of personal finance is your behavior. It's not the head knowledge. It's not the Excel sheets. It's not trying to form the interest rate. that's what's best for you and it's not that bad.

>> Debt is debt. So to your point, the borrower is slave to the lender when it says in Proverbs. So um there's something freeing about being debtree, [music] you guys. So um yeah, again, Michael, he has a great head start. I'm Yeah, I'm excited for him. I think a new change, good [music] season, and they were wise. So it's not a crisis. This is just an inconvenience.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting today with Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls at88255225.

Up first, we have Jeff in Minneapolis.

Hi, Jeff. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, good afternoon.

>> Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so my family and I were in the process of getting ready to purchase a uh a home for ourselves. This will be the third home that we've owned. We sold our previous house back in June um when we re relocated for a job change.

And uh I'm feeling that we're sitting pretty good financially with what we have invested and in retirement and trying to identify the right uh level of

home that our budget can support while still >> letting ourselves be comfortable financially but also feeling that going into our third home that we maybe don't need to settle on every single item at this point of our life as well.

>> Good. So what are you thinking about spending?

Well, right now we're considering a property that would be around the 550 to 600 range. >> Okay. >> And um I didn't ever think I would end up in a home of that size, but with real estate being, you know, somewhat inflated right now, that's kind of what we're looking and needing to be in to check all the boxes that we're looking for housewise.

Yeah, depending on what we put down for a down payment, we'd be tracking right about the right about the 25% mark.

>> What do you have saved in cash?

>> So, we've got a we're sitting on 310 in cash right now. Now, that includes uh that includes a bunch of money from the sale of our home in the summer. About 50 of that is what I've considered to be our emergency fund. Okay.

>> You know, the rest of that would go into the home purchase. So, about about 250.

>> Okay. Good for you, Jeff. Well done. Is there anything standing in the way? Do you have any other debt or

>> Well, we're sitting pretty good otherwise. We've got a small car loan, $5,000 on that. Um, that's the only

other debt that we have. We're free of credit card debt, free of education debt. >> Good. >> Yeah. None. None of that. We're >> we got a young family at home. Our >> What's the problem? >> Young family at home. So, we're we're trying to, you know, provide some flexibility to, you know, have life change if needed there, whether it's education or So, what do you need from what do you need from us? What made you call in? What's your biggest question?

>> Well, as we've been looking at this home purchase is just uh you know what we

think about is is that really the best way to deploy that money? Should that money go into a home purchase or should it be you know further invested or set aside for a child's education? Is it the is it the right move to put that much money into a home right now? >> Well, you said yourself you said you're sitting pretty with your investments.

You said you're you know everything seems to be on track. So, if you did, let's let's just play it out. If you did purchase this house, like you're saying, it would meet the criteria that we say is kind of a safe place to buy a house and still have enough margin to do the things that you've mentioned, which is save up for kids, college, be able to put a little bit extra on the house. You'd still have that money in order to do that.

Whereas, if you didn't purchase this house, let's pretend you didn't purchase this house. Uh, let's pretend that you What would you do? Take this money and invest it?

drop some in the market, beef up a 529.

>> Okay. And then how long would you rent?

>> Well, we Yeah, we we need to get into a long-term home as soon as we can just for everybody's comfort. But um but >> you're saying just maybe a smaller home, something not >> Yeah, maybe maybe it's a 400 $400,000 home and our monthly, you know, our monthly payment is closer to 1,200 instead of instead of 2400.

>> Would it suit your needs if you did that or would you feel like you were sacrificing?

I would feel like we were sacrificing.

>> Yeah. And how old are the kids?

>> Uh two and a half right now.

>> Okay. And how much do you guys make a year?

>> I'm at one I'm at 93 and my spouse is at my wife's at 57.

>> Okay. >> I mean, >> and did you did you both How did you guys grow up with money, Jeff? Did you Because you said we I wouldn't imagine ever buying a home.

>> Yeah. So this expensive my wife my Yeah.

My wife grew up from pretty, you know, pretty limited means, you know, larger larger family and they they they made it work. But, you know, she definitely comes from a >> um, you know, a different background than than I do. When I was growing up, we as a family didn't ever have to >> worry about money. My parents always made smart decisions with it.

And >> who's more hesitant about the house purchase, you or her, >> right? Approval approach to life. Um, I would say she's a little more hesitant than I am, >> which makes total sense. And you know, sometimes money's weird because you guys have been really successful, Jeff.

I mean, you guys make six figures. I'm going to say you have no debt cuz I think you're going to pay that car off tonight is what I want you to do with some of this money. >> You know, you're debtree. You have a fully funded emergency fund.

You have a massive down payment. Uh you have little kids.

successful. And I think sometimes if we

come from a family where there was a little bit more scarcity, you had to watch things more caution around it.

It's almost like her emotions haven't caught up with the reality of what she's living. And I think that's really normal. I think a lot of people we get calls sometimes people and they're like, "Oh my gosh, I we can spend this on vacation, but is that crazy?" Like they can't emotionally digest like where they

really are at, you know, realistically.

And so, um, so I could I totally see where she's coming from and I get that.

But also, our emotions can't be our driver of decisions always cuz they sometimes don't make sense. Like they're not logical always, you know? And when you look at the numbers, >> Yeah. >> you guys are not out of control at all.

>> That's a good time when the numbers do help you. Like looking at the numbers, I mean, the same thing happened to us. Uh, the other night, Jeff, my husband had said there was a line item on our budget. He was like, "Man, I just think that's too expensive." And I had to look at him and say, "In relative to what?" Like relative to what?

And sometimes running out those numbers and running out the actual percentage of your income is so helpful because it helps you it helps your emotions align with where you are now and go, "Oh my gosh, this is this is so true." And then just take some time and marinate in that. High-five each other and be like, "Man, we really we really did it. Good for us. We can afford things that we once thought were out of reach." And I think it's so important to mark those times uh both mentally and emotionally because they are wins.

And it's so easy to go through life and not celebrate your wins. >> That's so good.

>> Um >> that's good. That's good advice. Yeah, I appreciate that. >> Yeah. Do you guys do you all have a specific house that you that you guys have looked at and you're thinking about putting putting a down payment on? Like is there a specific one that she can like picture and see or is it just that's the price range and you guys are going to start looking?

>> No. Yeah, we've been we've been in the market for a while. have had several offers that have not gone through on different properties which has kind of caused us to escalate what we're looking to spend. You know, at one point we weren't going to go above 450 and now we're >> knocking on the door of 550 for a specific property. So that's what gives us some apprehension as well. We've shifted away shifted away from our original conservative [clears throat] plan and we've always been conservative in all other financial decisions.

>> Totally. I hear you. I hear you. Yeah.

That's when those guardrails really help though. uh what we said before, the 25% rule. That's when that's kind of like your true north of we may have started out one way, but this is truly the the line in the sand. We know no matter what we choose, we're not crossing that. And I think for you guys, like you said, if you do the plan the way you said, you're not going to you're not going to cross that line. And I think that's that's good for you to remember.

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>> Okay. Today's question comes from Jamie in Iowa. Uh they say, "I'm struggling to pay off debt. Not because I can't afford to, but because it's hard for me to let go of the cash that's in the bank. I have close to 80,000 in car loans and a

$450,000 mortgage. I have liquid cash of

300,000 and a brokerage account with a h

100,000 in it. I know it makes no sense to keep the debt, but I have a hard time not seeing all of the cash available.

How do I overcome this mentally? Oh man.

So, this is crazy because yeah, if you

were to clear out the 300,000 of liquid

cash or at least, you know, take it down to 3 to 6 months and then take the 100,000 out of the brokerage, you could almost pay off everything, including the mortgage. Almost. You'd get pretty close, but for sure you'd clear the 80,000 in car loans and get rid of most of the mortgage. I have a sense, Jamie, that this is some sort of like fear of

the unknown. I think you know whenever people cling on to savings it's usually either one of two things. It's kind of like that scarcity mentality that we talked about earlier which is maybe the way you came up something caused you to be like when I have money I have to keep it. Whether you grew up super duper poor or you were in some sort of a relationship where you couldn't get what you needed or you had a scary time where you lost a job and your family suffered and you had to go on food stamps.

Whatever that was, something affected you to the point that yeah, you feel like you have to cling to money. Or maybe it was none of that. Maybe you just feel like you're doing super duper well and you just love the feeling of looking over in that account and seeing that money and just the idea of what it would feel like when it's gone.

>> And I think that that's so Rachel, we we talked about this earlier today. So much of what we teach is a big question mark

to people because people are calling us.

Most people have been in debt their entire life. Most people have never felt what it feels like to have paid off mortgage. Most people have never felt what it feels like to have, you know, in her case, $300,000 in savings. And so so

much of this is a question mark that when we ask people to shift into the unknown, they're like clutching their pearls like, "Well, what's it going to feel like? What's going to happen? What if? What if? What if? What if?" and all these whatifs come and I get it. It can

be overwhelming. But in this case, you almost have to ask yourself, well, what if I don't do this? What what's the repercussion on the other end? Let's talk about that.

Because if you keep this $80,000 in car loans around, all you're going to end up doing is, you know, draining, milking yourself with interest. That's ridiculous. Why do that? Same thing with the mortgage.

I mean, an amortization schedule is there for a reason. It's explaining how much the interest is costing you year-over-year and how much is going to the principal. So, you can see on paper that the longer you keep that debt around, the more you're paying in interest.

feel like to be free? >> Yeah. And it is so interesting that people we always talk about change is so hard >> and even if you're doing something that you know is kind of stupid like what she's even saying. I mean, she's even saying she's like, >> "But it but it feels comfortable because I know even though even though what I'm doing is wrong, at least I know how it feels and I can at least stay in there." So, there is a level of change in life that's hard.

And that's if you're changing something relationally, if you're changing your, you know, physically or your health, like >> it it causes something to be stretched within you.

They are free. That's it. And if you want to get back into debt, you can always get back into debt. Like there's a whole industry waiting for you.

Like, right, >> if you hate it, you can get right back in and, you know, take a personal loan and put money back. I mean, whatever you want to figure out, >> you can put it back if you want to. >> Yes. But there's something about owning your life.

And when you pay things off and you build back up that savings, it's all yours. That that car is yours. um you know that savings that you build back up is yours. And so it is it's a it's kind of a different approach.

it's kind of a myth that you're safer with the cash. Yeah. >> Because you have you have risk like the cash like if something were to happen and you have to drain your cash >> for some reason, >> you still have a payment. Like >> you still have payments. >> Yes. And the ma let's just if you want to take it completely mathematically the feeling of if you tell me hey I have

300,000 in a brokerage and h 100,000 or

no I'm sorry 300,000 in cash and 100,000 in a brokerage you're thinking you think you own $400,000 but that is not true if

you own 450 if you owe450 on a mortgage

you owe you owe 50,000 nothing is yours

that equation does not add up and then there's the other 80,000 in car loans.

So technically you are in the red.

>> It's a negative net worth. >> It's a negative net worth. So you're lying you're you're all of this is based on a lie that you're telling yourself. This money is mine.

This money's mine. And it's really really not. And so there's if you approach it from the math, the math is laughing at you. And if you approach it from the emotions, the emotions are going, well there's more peace over here if you go ahead and pay this off.

So it's kind of like what Dr. John Deloney says. You have to choose reality. >> Yeah.

>> And what is the reality telling you? And that's what I would tell you to do, Jamie, is take Rachel's advice.

off. And if you feel terrible, which no one's ever called in here and said, "I paid off all my debt and I feel horrible. Help me get it back.

>> But you could if you wanted to. >> You could if you want to." Yep. Hope that helps. All right, let's go to Dallas. And we have Chad on the line.

Hi, Chad. >> Hey, how you doing? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

So, I've been listening for a while and

pretty much everybody I hear you talk about the baby steps with is on a structured income. My question is, my

income fluctuates monthly and yearly.

Uh, is there a custom plan made for

somebody in my situation or do we just

try to make the baby steps work for

>> everybody? Well, there's a lot of irregular income earners that call in.

Um, >> I was one, Chad, if that makes you feel better. >> Yeah, I technically am. I mean, yeah, we get I mean, number heard one and all the >> Okay. Yes. Yes. That it's very common.

There's a lot of people that are irregular whether they're doing freelance work or commissionbased um

positions where they make a lot one season or like photographers, they make a ton one season and then it kind of goes dead. So, you know, that that is a very um normal approach to money or

people have that situation all the time.

So, no, there's not a um a special way to do the baby steps, but if your job is it seasonally very different, Chad, okay, tell me tell me about that. What's the what's the seasons?

>> So, I Mother Nature controls my my work.

Basically, I >> uh my I fix hail damaged cars >> and so if it's storms, I have good storm seasons. I make a lot of money. If I have weak storm systems, then I >> Perfect. and low. >> So what I would do is >> about like I usually have about a four to five month slow period throughout the year. Okay. >> That I save my money for that slow time

and so the thought of paying that money off onto my debt.

>> Gotcha. >> Then work dies off and now I I'm scing

for money to pay my bills.

>> So yeah. So the so the paying extra on your debt is that doesn't include your monthly expenses. So, I would I would have that fund of what you've set aside for savings, which is so smart. That I would consider that amount of money for your expenses, for your your four walls, your food, your shelter, utilities, transportation.

That's not just extra money that's just hanging out that has no purpose. That's [clears throat] to cover your basic living expenses during low seasons. So, we do say to have um an account that we call your peaks and valleys.

okay, we spend x amount every single month that we need this much. and if we don't bring in any money, I have to pull this amount out of savings in order to cover our expenses. Like if you're down to a tea like that and you know um that that fund is there for that, no, I would not throw that extra at the debt. That's totally fine.

The paying off debt is above anything or anything that you can cut. So I would look at your lifestyle and say, "Hey, is there anything in our regular expenses that we have regardless of, you know, seasonality of the weather [music] that we can throw extra at the house?" But no, you're that fund I would consider your peaks and valleys fund to be able to literally pay your bills. So we don't tell people to get behind on their bills to pay off debt.

[music] But anything extra that you can squeeze out of the budget andor any more work you can do in those slow periods.

>> That's the T. That's the T right there is doing work in the slow periods.

>> Yeah. Go get another job during that time and man that you could double up which is great.

>> [music]

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Well, if you enjoy the show, one of the best ways that you can help us out is by spreading the word. So, putting it on

social, sharing it with your friends and family, it's always helpful. So, make sure to subscribe. Um, and yeah, give us a like, share the videos, and we always love to to spread the word about the show because we want to help people get control of their money. >> Absolutely. >> All right. Next, let's go to Trey in Houston. Hi, Trey. Welcome to the show.

>> How you doing? We're doing good. How can we help?

>> Um, so I'm about $4,000 in credit card

debt right now. I don't have any other loans, no any other anything else. And

um basically me and my girlfriend have been talking about um getting married and I've been thinking about just engaging to her soon and stuff and she we've been talking about homes and everything like that and we've been I've been talking to her about the show but I just want to know how can I tell my girlfriend that I kind of lied about my

financial situation.

>> Oh no you lied. What happened?

So basically I only told her I like $2,000.

>> Why did you lie, Trey? Why?

>> So at first that's where I was at and

then I started just it started racking up over time when I did get my first my well my third apartment and then I just

not is. So, let me make this let me understand. When you told her you had 2K, did you have 2K and then you accumulated another two without telling her that you accumulated >> while you were accumulating the other two?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. That makes me feel a little bit better. >> Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, you didn't lie to her like upfront, but you've not been honest with her since. When was that conversation that you told her 2K and now it's 5K? Was it a year ago or like two weeks ago?

>> It was a couple It was a couple weeks ago. >> Couple weeks. You accumulated the 2K in 2 weeks.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. Um, doing what again? Did you

say your third apartment? What What was the 2K for? >> Um, uh, 2K was used mainly for basically

like a lot of the like stuff that I have like currently. I got a lot of new stuff

um that I really haven't kind of told her about either. Like I got a lot of new stuff. >> Name it. >> I got a new bed. Okay.

>> I got a new bed. I got um some other

like f um like pots pan stuff like that.

>> Okay. Because you just moved. Okay. So, you're buying stuff for the apartment.

>> I moved not too So, basically I moved not too long ago, but I've been at her apartment a lot of my time.

>> Understood. >> So, a lot of the stuff has been at I've been at her apartment and I'm like moving.

>> What do you think will happen if you say, "Hey, just so you know, >> listening now." She's listening now, so she's probably hearing me.

Is she there with you or is she like at work listening and you're going to come home to >> Fury? Like listening on the Yes, I'm going to >> All right. Well, hi Tre's girlfriend.

Hope you're doing well. >> This is like my Why did you make it like this? Trey. [laughter] Okay. So, um, what's your girlfriend's

name? Can you say it since she's listening? >> Shayla. >> Shayla. Shayla. >> I can say it. >> All right. Shayla. Um, now you know. And

we're trying to tell him he needs to come home tonight and tell you what happened, but he's telling you now. So, the key here is you need to start paying this off. What are you making? What do you earn, Trey?

>> So, I uh originally earned around 48, but now I make around 50 cuz I got a 4% pay increase. >> Good. >> Um so, I make around 50 a year.

>> Good. >> Um at this point, I've been talking, me and her have been talking about this like we've been talking about your show.

We've been talking about the baby steps. I sent it to her today.

>> Um and stuff. So, we've been really talking and honing in and we've been talking about all the stuff about getting out of debt. She kind of told me where she's in debt on her end.

>> How much does she have? >> I kind of just like um around 8 or 9,000

and it's in student loans.

>> Okay. Now, can I ask you Trey, if you've been listening to this show, what caused you to go I mean, you have a fine income 50,000. What caused you to go into debt to buy [clears throat] pots and pans in a bed? Why didn't you just cash flow that? What was going through your mind?

So, at first, um, the problem was was

that I had to get the the stuff that's currently in my apartment. The like couch and bed stuff is not mine. It was my sister. So, I had to give that back to her. >> Got you. So, you felt like you were in a time crunch.

>> Yes. I was in a time crunch situation where I was like, I have to, you know, kind of spend it. Just kind of do it.

Either do it now. I see. So, I just want to encourage you going forward. I love that you and your and and Shayla are listening to the show. I love that you guys are starting to hone in on this. I just want to encourage you uh and also

just admonish you going forward. There's always going to be times where you feel like there's a time crunch. There's going to be times where you feel like you have to move fast. >> Urgency is where the debt >> the debt industry loves you when you're urgent. Whether you're on a car a lot and you're like, I got to get a new car.

>> I moved. Oh, god.

>> They find you in crisis. >> That's right. 100% 100%. But if you can

start now to exercise the muscle of just

even taking a moment, taking a breather and going, "Okay, what can I do instead?

Can I can I sleep on a friend's couch for a week while I save up some money?

Yes. Could I go on Craigslist? I don't even know if Craigslist >> or an air mattress, a $100 air mattress.

>> I slept on an air mattress for a long time. >> Yeah. So, just always know, Trey, that there is always another option. Okay.

So, in a situation, whether it's furniture or a car, >> there are options out there. So slowing down is a really big part of making wise financial decisions, not feeling like you're backed into a corner. >> Um that and then and I would want to get to and again it's only been two weeks so it's not like you've lived with this for months and like lied to her, right?

>> You know, I mean like but I would want to know from you what's caused you to

not tell her? Is it because she'll get mad? Is it that you're embarrassed? Is it that you wish you had done better and now you kind of have some guilt and shame around the choices that you've made? What was the main motivation? Do you know? I >> I would say honestly for me the main thing was just like you know me and her have been talking about marriage. Um and

like we've been talking about how much do we want to spend. She been talking about being getting eloped instead so we can save a lot of that money. We don't just go in and just have this big wedding ceremony. >> Yeah.

>> Um and she's not looking for that.

example of just learning that communication pattern you had a feeling about not telling her you didn't tell her but then even still you came on the show as a strange way of telling her I would just want encourage you in the future, just if this is a person you love, you trust, go to them and tell them the truth. >> Yeah. And starting off marriage with hiding the pots and pans, Trey, >> we don't want to do that. >> We don't want to do that.

so fast. And as honest as you can be, Trey, with her about this and going forward, I mean, yeah, Jada, we've been married, we've been married over a decade, both of us, and >> to men, >> what we've learned our own husbands. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's [laughter] sorry, not to each other, to our own spouses.

>> Uh that we one thing >> I think we [laughter] both say that, you

know, it there are things that are going to come up in life that you're embarrassed about and you're sh you know, you don't like things. You know what I mean? like that is going to happen and the moment you start hiding those things is where that trust erodess. So the more vulnerable and honest you can be trained this is a great first step and let me just say >> to lighten the lighten the load a little bit >> that it's $2,000. Okay it's not

>> some you know sometime it could be much worse. It can be much worse but but that doesn't matter regardless of the amount.

It's the principle behind it >> that I want you to get in a healthy pattern of you guys communicating and being and and I want you to cut up the credit. Was it credit cards that you that you charged it on? You said >> yes, it was it was credit cards. >> Okay, cut it up. You guys have been talking and listening to the show.

You've been talking about the show. Listen to the show when she start doing the stuff that we talk about.

>> So, cut up the credit cards, you guys.

Cash. She sounds amazing. I know she's listening. Girl, we are for you. We are on her team and your team, Trey. But >> she sounds so levelheaded. And be wise

about this. You know, if you don't have the money, don't buy it. And let that start to be a pattern in your life. And that that includes the engagement ring.

That includes the wedding and the honeymoon and all the things. Um, but yeah, I I think I think it's going to be awesome. Do you know when you're going to Well, no, I don't ask. >> How long have you been together?

[laughter] >> Right now, I've been with her off and on. We were off and on for about a year now. But, um, I have been secured with her for about going on three months now.

>> Secured with her. That's a good thing.

>> Really really on like a phase I didn't

know about.

>> Yeah. secured like it before we stopped

talking for a little bit and then we got back together. So, >> okay. >> I like it. I like it, Trey.

>> I'm excited for y'all.

>> Oh, man. Love it. >> And all the all the security coming forward. It's great.

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You can get it in the app store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Andrew in Chicago. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, Jake. Hey, Rachel. How you guys doing today? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, I am about to propose to my girlfriend of 5 years uh coming up in the next month or so. >> A congratulations.

>> And with us moving forward, obviously that comes wedding and pay for the wedding and looking at buying a house in the next couple of years. My question is,

when you're saving up for a down payment and for a wedding, should you still invest your 15% of your income uh for

like retirement or should you reduce that to a lower percent or kind of

guidance on that?

>> Well, so in the baby steps, technically the house would be 3B. So you'd save up

baby step three first. So 3 to 6 months.

Then you do 3B, which is say for a down payment, and then four is the investing, the 15%. Um, now if you felt like you

could do 3B and four at the same time and make, you know, fine progress on that down payment, I would say that's

fine. That's up to you guys if you want to do that. Uh, do you have any other debt or anything like that?

>> So, we're both out of debt. She's going to be graduating college here in December. Great. >> Um, debtree. I'm currently debt free.

>> Um, we're keeping our finances separate until marriage. >> Okay. >> So, I'm kind of just looking for guidance for what we should do. Um, I currently have 20,000 in savings.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> does she >> my yearly salary Go ahead.

>> Go ahead.

>> Um, my yearly salary I'm going to a new

job uh in two weeks. My current salary

will be a h 100,000 and her salary as a

teacher will be 50,000 when she starts in January. >> What would you be looking to spend? I mean in the Chicago area it can be pretty spendy. What do you What's it going to cost to get what you guys need?

>> Probably somewhere as a first home probably somewhere between two and 300.

>> Okay. Okay then. Yeah.

>> Further out in the west. >> Yeah. and the wedding, right? How much are you guys wanting to spend on the wedding?

>> Uh, we're just getting into those uh

weeds. Um, we haven't really decided on a budget yet. >> Don't call your wedding a weed.

>> I'm [laughter] just kidding. Is is family helping pay for any of that or is it all on you guys?

>> Yeah, I believe uh both her parents and my dad uh both are going to contribute to the wedding. So the first point of that would be really sitting down with them and finding out honestly what they plan to contribute because that's going to I mean obviously heavily impact what the overall spend of the wedding is because you guys are then going to have to look at your budget and say whether they help us or not here's what we can contribute. So having those numbers ahead of time and also understanding how it will be dispersed is very important to planning a wedding because if their thought was like, "Oh, we're just going to give you 10 grand as a wedding gift." That's very different because deposits and stuff have to be made.

So really getting in the details on that, as awkward as it may seem, I think is so important and is so helpful on the beginning part of planning a wedding because those timelines and those, you know, those deposits, they got to go on time. So >> Yes. Yeah. So to make sure you guys know, okay, here's what we're being helped with, that amount, and is that amount of money enough for what we're wanting as a wedding?

And if not, how much more do we need to add to that?

>> So that and then on top of that, yes, saving for um saving for a a house. So

if yeah, if I were you guys, you know, I'm okay with people pausing baby step four and not investing for maybe threeish years. Um, >> that's not really a hard and fast rule, but it's a good one though. >> Anything beyond that, I would probably want to get in and start investing because that compound interest is so great. But if y'all need to pause for a few years just to build up um a large

amount for a down payment, um then I would be okay with that. But I probably wouldn't go any longer than three years not investing. And then uh the 3 to six

month uh emergency fund, is that based

off of uh your income or off of

expenses? >> It's really based off of you could think about it a couple of ways. So I like to think about like job situation. I like to think of uh relationship status and health.

So for instance, if you were a single person, I'd probably automatically go to 6 months simply because if I lose my income, that's it, right? But if I'm married and there's another person who if I lose my income, but if they have theirs, there's a little bit more security there. So that's kind of how I uh consider like the relational side of it, then I'm thinking about health. If one of you is in, you know, poorer health and there's an opportunity for hospital stays or being out of work, that's another thing that could impact wanting to have six months versus three months.

Uh so those are the kind of things that I look at with you guys. I mean, is there anything?

how much you should save? Is that based off of saving up to three months of your

income or two months? >> So, I we don't really do by income. It's more of expenses. So, when you look at keeping Yes. >> Um you know, the rent paid, food on the table. So, that's what Winston and I did. We kind of looked at our monthly and we stayed Did you go bare bones?

>> We did. We did it bare bones at first and then later on we updated.

>> Yes. Yes. So, yeah. So, you guys could just start with, okay, what keeps food, lights on, the rent paid, and get that, you know, not all the extra exciting stuff, you know, no going out to eat, like if you got the bare bones, how much is that?

And then you can multiply that by three, four, five, six. Um, and that can give you kind of that number for that emergency fund. But what Jade's saying too, I think is important that you guys are going to be two people with two incomes, no kids.

could go on that three-month, especially since you are going to be saving up for a down payment like getting to that. Um, >> because you can always come back later.

>> Yes. And up it. That's right. That's right. >> Is that helpful, Andrew?

>> Yeah, that's perfect. That's questions.

Both questions been answered.

Definitely. I didn't know.

>> Perfect. So great. as well.

Congratulations again. Um, yeah, that's going to be fun. All right, quickly, let's go to Jamie in San Diego. Hi, Jamie. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thank you so much.

>> Yes. How can we help today?

>> Okay, my question is we, my husband and

I seven years ago were gifted Financial Peace University as a wedding gift. We were able to get completely out of debt, save six months of expenses in our emergency fund. We currently invest 15% of our awesome >> household income. Um and we have about $215,000 in savings. >> Okay. >> Um we live in a really expensive area.

We cannot afford to pay a mortgage yet.

Um we're in San Diego, so it's just really expensive. But my question is, um

we just had our second kid. I'm supposed to go back to work in December. The thought of going back to work and paying so much in child care for someone else to raise our kids is just really hard.

So, is it just a completely stupid move for me to not go back to work and us pull $1 to $2,000 of savings each month so that I can stay home with our kids because we have such a big of savings?

>> Yes. Y'all have 250. Y'all have 250 liquid, right? >> 2215. >> 215. Okay. You know, I I would be okay with it for like I don't know if it's if it really is 1,000 a month.

>> Uhhuh. >> Um and you need a little >> 2,000 a month.

>> Yeah. What's the long-term plan? Is there a long-term solve here or are you just living in an area that's way too expensive for you guys? Do you need to move?

>> No. Well, my husband changed careers about 6 months ago and he is on a track where he is going to be getting promotions and so hopefully this would only be a year or two of having to pull from savings and he has >> he has a lot of growth opportunity. But it's there's >> I would say Jamie So I would say I would be okay with it. I think you guys have worked hard.

you put money aside to be able to make some of these moves. But I would have a threshold because what can happen is you're like, "Well, we're in San Diego. You know, the promotions haven't really come. It's not really what's happening." You know, if stuff doesn't happen according to plan, you can start justifying your position.

So, you need a threshold to say we're not [music] going past 100,000 in savings. >> So, either I have to go back to work >> if the promotions aren't coming, but have that threshold. [music] But yes, I am okay with it for a time for sure. But don't sit there and just drain that 215 [music] without another plan. So have a threshold of what you will not pass.

That can be whatever number it is for you guys. Um but yeah, you've worked hard to make [music] choices and this is a choice you want and you can afford it.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds [music] Credit Union studio.

I'm Rachel Cruz hosting today with Jade Warshaw and we're answering your questions. [music] Up next we have Nancy in Dallas, Texas.

Hi Nancy, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for having me.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Um, so my husband lost his job about a

week ago. >> Oh my gosh, I'm sorry.

>> He was our sole income earner as I'm a

high-risisk pregnancy right now with our third kiddo. And I just learned some guidance on how we uh navigate the next

few months until he's able to find work.

>> Oh my gosh. Okay. Are you high risk because of your age or are you high risk because of other factors? uh because of other factors and thank God there's a chance that the issue will resolve itself by the time the baby comes to term. >> Yeah. How far >> until that I'm on bed rest. Um

>> uh I am 24 weeks right now.

>> Okay.

>> Um okay. So financially where where are

you guys? How much debt do you guys have? Um, so we actually moved houses earlier this

summer um to a house in the country and

we've been trying to sell our other house. >> Oh gosh. You have two mortgage payments.

>> No, thank God. We were able our the

house we're in right now we have no debt on. >> Oh great.

>> Yeah. Uh but we have debt on the old house. >> Okay. >> And then we have two car loans.

>> Okay. Okay. How much are your car loans?

>> Um, my husband owes 5 grand on his truck

and then we owe 24 grand on my minivan.

>> Okay. And how much is the payment on the 5K? The truck?

>> Uh, $770 a month.

>> Okay. And how much is your van payment?

>> $57. >> Okay. And how much is the mortgage payment on the house that you're not living in? >> Uh, $1,470.

>> Okay. Um, perfect. Okay. And what was he

bringing home per month? Like what was hitting your account?

>> Um he got a lot of overtime. So it was consistently between seven and eight, but his base pay was uh $40 an hour, 36

hours a week. >> Okay. And what was um

what what was he doing? What kind of work? >> Uh he worked maintenance, facility maintenance. >> Okay. Okay. Do you have any money saved?

I mean, you were able to buy a second house kind of outright. Where'd that money come from?

>> Um, my husband worked really hard. Um, we both did for a while and then we came into some family inheritance money.

>> Um, and so it just kind of like sped up this process for this dream we had of moving out of the city and slowing down our lives. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Um, so between savings and inheritance, we were able to get out here and then we thought selling our previous home, it would pay off the cars, >> pay off the mortgage. >> Yeah. What will it bring when you sell it eventually?

>> Uh, it's listed for 260 right now and I

owe 160 on it. >> Okay. >> Um, so it should pay off all of our debt. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, and you So you don't have anything left over saved from >> We No, we ended up using all of our savings pretty much to build a house. We still have our 10,000 emergency fund though. >> 10,000. Okay.

>> Um, tell me this, Nancy. How how hard

will it be for him to be able to replace that income? It just feels like maintenance. I don't know. I I again, I don't want to be ignorant, but I feel like that's a very wide spectrum of being able to probably plug in somewhere pretty quickly, right? Would you Does he feel like there's options?

>> Uh, he's been applying a lot. Um, I

don't know that we'll find anything that's comparable to the last company.

>> Sure. >> But I think we can find something in the high 20s, low30s.

>> Sure. Okay. So, what I would do, cuz y'all you guys have $2,700 a month going out to debt.

>> Um, and I would I would figure out maybe you already have a really tight budget to figure out. You don't have a mortgage payment on the house you're currently living in. Um, but I would figure out food, um, utilities, gas for the cars,

like the things that you guys have to have. >> Um, and figure out, okay, here is the minimum that we can scrape by. And I don't know what that is going to be for you guys. I don't know if it's 4,000, 5,000. I have no idea. But you guys need to figure that out with the debt included. And if I were you, which I'm

so urgent, so I can't even imagine how you're feeling that you're on bed rest and like this is happening.

>> Um, did he get any severance at all?

>> No. No severance. >> Okay. What's the What's the movement on the house? Is there anything like I would be on my realtor like we got to close? Like we got to get an offer and close in 30 days. >> We've we've had the house listed since

June and it was originally listed at 290

and we've >> dropped it 30k.

>> When did you do the drop? >> Five months. >> Oh, it's been gradual. Okay.

>> It's been gradual. Yeah.

>> We dropped it down. I think the last drop we did like a week and a half. >> Yeah. average is two months right now sitting.

Um, so you guys are over that a little bit. So >> it might be a price thing. >> Um, yeah. So I I am with Jade, you know, if what what you guys can do to to be urgent on that, but even urgent on the on the income side, like if I were him, >> you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't care if it's comparable for right now because some things are going to turn, right?

This >> um after you know, you have the baby, the house sells, like some things are going to start to like >> alleviate some stress, right? as life continues on. Um I mean it'll be in the next, you know, six, seven months, but until then, in these next bit, I mean, I would think until like summer, like that would would be in my head. I got to go do anything.

Yeah. >> Anything to be able to stay current on this stuff.

Nancy, that he that he does apply and that what he was doing obviously was bringing a market value of something that was fantastic and that he can find something. You know, I think there's always a a natural assumption in our

human spirit that we if we lose something that the next thing's never going to be as good and so we're probably going to have to always downgrade especially if there's like a layoff situation. But that's not always the case. >> Yeah. Um I think both of you have got to

sit down tonight and decide that come hell or high water like debt, you're not going to go crazy into debt because of this. Like even if he's picking up Uber tomorrow, like any money coming in is going to be better than no money coming in. Because with $1,000, yeah, you guys are you guys are up against the wall, which is for the listening audience why we always say you got to have 3 to 6 months of expenses before buying a house. You've just got to have it.

Even if you're counting on another house to spend, money is not yours until it's in your hand.

And um yeah, for [clears throat] you guys, Nancy, I mean, we're pulling for you. Whatever he can get immediately. I I we had a call the other the other day where a guy lost his job. And I'm I I'm gonna give you the same homework that I gave him, which is to make a list tonight. You guys sit down, make a list of everybody you know that's in that field or know somebody that's in that field and call them. Like make contact.

Don't just text them. Call them and say, "Hey, I'm in the market. Do you know anything? Have you heard anything?" and really start making those connections personto person as much as you can. He should be going to coffee with people and because that's the way you're going to get a job. Just putting in resumes, you know, on the internet doesn't work anymore. So, make that list tonight and you guys hit the pavement on that.

>> Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. Oh, I'm so sorry. I could only imagine how stressful, but I think the stress will lower when money starts coming in >> and any [music] way that's possible for him in this season. Um, that's what we're looking at.

And I know I'm sure he feels it too. [music] Um >> but yeah. >> So um and again that budget figuring out how much on the [music] minimal side that you guys can spend on food, utilities, all of that. Cutting subscriptions, not going out to eat.

You guys are bare bones. It's [music] kind of that crisis mode right now. And that's okay. And you're going to get through it.

You're going to get through it. And >> he's going to find another job. The house is going to sell. Things are going to happen.

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Portland, Oregon. Hi, Mary. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Hello. >> Hello. Hello. How can we help today?

>> Oh, thank you so much for just hearing this story out and giving your thoughts.

Um, so basically my husband and I um

were debtree except for our mortgage.

And um he is a hardcore do-it-yourselfer. Works really hard.

He's a diamond in the rough. Um he uh we

bought 10 acres 23 years ago when we got married with a single wide mobile home on it with the intention to build and you know life happens and um there was five of us in 850 ft. So him being him

um built an addition onto the mobile home that has uh failed. We have extreme mold >> and um it it needs to be torn down. He

wants to rebuild it. Um, and I think that we should either build or bring in a double wide mobile home. Um, we've even looked at moving, but with a brand new grandbaby on the way and my mom just recently in assisted living, I don't think that that's just an option. Um, so we're kind of curious, what would you do when you're in this situation and you really don't owe much on your mortgage?

Um, and you're looking at adding another mortgage. >> Yeah. Um, just question. Why can't you move? You said a baby and um your mother. Is it because you don't want to leave the area or the property? Because you could move somewhere else. I'm not saying that's the option. I'm just making sure that I've that I heard you correctly. >> Basically, it's family that's here and um we live in an area that's extremely expensive and we could never purchase what we have right now and replace it.

My husband has built a shop on the property that he has worked out of and

um so that would mean leaving that and leaving our extra income. Um we just

couldn't replace it. We'd have to move really far away. >> Sure. Okay. And you guys have is it 25 acres? >> We have 10 acres. >> 10 acres. Okay, perfect. And how much is the mobile home worth right now?

>> Um you mean like the current mortgage?

>> Yeah. >> Um we owe 95,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you guys make a year? >> A year he's at 80,000 a year. Um that

doesn't include any of the extras.

>> Okay. On average, what does he make extra? >> Uh that one I couldn't say. It kind of comes and goes. Um and so we don't really rely on it. It it could be a

couple thousand every month or so.

>> So can I ask a question about the addition? So you've got you had the initial mobile home, then you added an addition. The addition is the only place that has mold, right?

>> As far as I know, we haven't dug too far into it other than the addition. Yes.

>> So, if you were to how how many in your family is it just >> uh there's there's five of us. >> Five of us. So, if you were to remove

the addition, could everybody temporarily be in the initial part of the house or like I don't know how large this is. >> It's 850 ft. Um, yeah. I mean, it would

be tight, but yeah, we we could do that.

>> How much would it cost? I I'd love to know the numbers of what it would cost to remove the addition and then what it costs to add another addition.

>> Um, my husband does it all. He won't let anyone else do it. So, >> well, still >> Well, he may not have an option. I mean, like, you know what I mean?

Like that's that's where people pin themselves into bad situations is because well he won't do it or you know and I'm talking more to him than you Mary that you know you guys are in a situation that it's like I don't know I don't it may have to be an option you know what I mean like just taking it off completely because of his pride and he doesn't want to he just wants to do everything himself which obviously didn't work so we need all the options in the world right do you feel that way but he like won't even he won't even entertain the idea >> no he will he'll he'll entertain any of the ideas.

He's phenomenal. We just want to make a a financial decision that's correct, you know, because we don't owe much on our property. He is more of the type that once it's paid off, he can breathe and he has room, but yet we have no home to live in. So, >> yeah, you can't live in mold.

>> I mean, I guess tearing it down he would do. So, it wouldn't cost anything to tear it down other than taking things to the dump. >> Okay. So, free. >> Okay. >> And then um and rebuilding it. I think it cost us maybe five to 7,000 to build

it. >> Okay. So then that would that's the equation we're solving for. How quickly now if you have to that's why I asked can everybody uh stay in the main side because you got to get out of the mold.

So it's like >> getting that done and then doing the math of how quickly can you save $5 to $6,000 um with the margin that you have because there's no other debt. You should have a decent amount of margin laying around. I mean, maybe not a decent amount.

>> I homeschool my kids. Um yeah. So, yes,

I do. >> Yeah. No, fair. Fair. I shouldn't Yes. I really phrase it that way, >> but I I say I'm still going to ask the same question because you work full-time, your husband works full-time. both of you are going to have to do something on the side to bring in income in order to save up this $5 to $7,000 as quickly as possible because you guys are going to feel each other's presence in

that single part of that mobile >> his side business. I mean, you said kind of like, well, it's like around a,000, maybe 2,000 um a month, but we don't really count on it. I would be counting.

I mean, I would I would make it a goal to say we need to save at least $2,000

for the next three months. So, that's 6,000. And so then we can start the addition and that'll be a couple of months to do that. And so you know life looks different come you know May June

>> um if you guys actually buckle down and say hey no no no we are going to work extra to make this actually happen.

>> Yeah. The one thing that concerns me is the fact that once you um get into a

mobile home and you um take parts out of it and you add new parts in, it's not legal. And also insurance doesn't cover you if your house burns down. So that mean so what you're saying is your husband can't do the work. You have to hire a professional.

>> I don't think legally you can build an addition onto a mobile home. >> But he did and you were living with that and you wouldn't have said it. I'm don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you need to do something legal, but where was that logic the first time? I guess is what I'm asking. >> My husband does things on his own terms.

>> Got you. So Mary, help me with this.

When you called in with the question, Rachel's first thing was you you need to move somewhere else. and you were like, "That's impossible." >> So now we're now we try to go into your world and say, "Okay, well then let's just rebuild and you're like, well, here's the problem." So what do you want to do?

>> Um I mean, I'm open to anything. That's why I was called. >> Well, you're not open to anything cuz you're not open to moving and you have >> No, I'm >> Well, I'm Listen, I'm on your side, but I'm just saying what you said back to you. You're not moving is too expensive and you're concerned with the legality of the addition.

So there you have some qualms. So you're going to have to choose. >> Is there an option that we didn't think of? Is are you thinking, hey, scrap the mobile home and let's build our own home.

>> That's probably what I would look at anyways, Mary, to make it a goal to to build something. It'll obviously be more expensive and it would be adding on a mortgage. So, I I want you guys to do that. But, um having something that you

know cuz mobile homes, I mean, depending on the market, yes, sometimes they do go down and so um having something from a financial standpoint that's really steady um for your family long term, I

think, is a is a great goal. Is there is there a building plot for on that land on that 10 acres? I mean, I'm sure there is. >> Yeah, right where we're sitting. >> Okay. So, yeah. So, maybe it's you guys moving somewhere part-time. I don't know. I mean, I don't know, Mary. I'm just trying to think of things. Um, >> that's what I was kind of leaning towards was, but is that financially a

good choice? When you're almost paid off on your mortgage, do you want to add another 30-year mortgage?

>> Well, it's not that. What what you could consider, and I this is just I'm throwing something out there because I like Rachel's idea of getting in something permanent that can go up in value. But the truth is, you don't have the money to do that today, and you're living in a situation that's not healthy because of the mold. What if you kept the land? What if you rented somewhere for a while to save up to be able to

>> build on the land? People do it every day and going rent renting for a while is not going backwards. >> No. And it would [music] be, you know, he could still keep his shop, you know, there on the land.

Um, but yeah, you guys are going to have to get creative >> for a long-term plan um to get this to work. So, it's not Yeah, it's definitely not 1 plus 1 just equals two and this is like the easy route. There's going to have to be some give and take from you guys um from location standpoint maybe for a little while while you guys save some extra work that you're doing.

>> Mhm.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Up next we have Michael in Seattle, Washington. Hi Michael, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

My question is we are expecting our

first born in March next year.

>> A congratulations.

>> Thank you. And my question is am I able

to afford or is it wise for me to stay

home with the baby?

>> Well, let's look at it from a are we talk obviously a financial perspective.

So, does your wife work?

>> Yes. >> What does she do and what does she earn?

She's an HR manager and she earns 170.

>> Okay. And what what do you do today and what are you earning today?

>> I'm an engineer and I make 135.

>> Okay. Do you guys have debt?

>> We have some debt on a rental property

and that's it. Oh, and our mortgage.

>> Okay. So, if you were So, you have some debt on the rental and then your mortgage. What's your mortgage worth?

Uh the the note it has 450 left and the

house is worth [clears throat] 585.

>> Okay. What about the rental? I'm just curious.

>> Uh rentals 225 worth 225 left on the

note is 150. >> Okay.

Okay.

Okay. um you know if you if you were to

have crunched the numbers and said okay like we can do do you have 3 to six months of expenses?

>> We do. We have about 30k love it >> in uh yeah in set aside.

>> I mean yeah if you crunch the numbers and you're like okay we'd be going down substantially but we can live off 170 and we can continue to do you know baby step four and you know I don't know how I feel about this rental. Maybe that's not the question for today, but if you can do it budget-wise, there's really not a problem. Um, >> have y'all done a mock budget at 170

just to see like what she brings home every month? Are do you guys comfortably live there? Can live on that?

>> We have not done a mock budget, but we

can probably live off 170. And I know probably is not a good term, but >> yeah, you got to do the real numbers, >> right? Because usually the home is the problem. >> Was it? >> Yes, that was my primary question is can we afford the house? Is this advisable?

Should we pay down the the mortgage?

>> How much does she help? >> How much is her paycheck a month? How much is her paycheck a month?

>> Um right now, uh it's like maybe 6,000, but

that's got some investing taken out of it and other things. >> That's fine because you are in baby step four. So that that would have to the investing would have to stay taken out of it. Uh but how much is your mortgage?

>> Mortgage is uh 4600.

>> Oo 4600.

>> Impossible.

>> Yeah. That's >> I know that's almost I mean that's Well, yeah. Then you guys you can't live off 1500, can you?

>> A month?

Because >> if she brings home 6,000 >> No, you can't. I'mma answer it for you.

>> And your mortgage, right, Michael? But for real, like that's that's not right.

Right. You can't live off that.

>> Yeah, she she must bring home more than

that. I'm sorry. I'm getting my numbers mixed up. >> Okay. Um >> Well, that's it's important to do that budget. And I also want you to consider >> Yeah, she makes 170. She's not bringing home 6,000. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, she it's more after even after uh >> after tax and everything more.

>> Yeah, it's more like 10,000.

>> Okay, that that would make more sense.

>> And then you said that she is Do you know what percentage is going towards investing?

>> Yeah, 30%. >> Okay, so that could come back down. So, you'd have some extra money there. So, that's looking better. But I also you have to consider this rental. And I would probably say if you do this that you might have to sell the rental because if for some reason you don't have renters and you're on the hook for that mortgage for a time >> that's going to put you up a creek. Do you agree? >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

>> And that'll give you a $70,000 cushion too with the equity which is just nice.

>> Mhm. >> During this time. >> Yeah. Cuz do you are you really making anything off the rental or are you just kind of breaking even?

>> Breaking even. >> Yeah. I'd sell it immediately and keep that cushion. I'm just curious, Michael, what caused you to be the one to stay home um and not her? I know she's making >> I mean, yeah, she makes 35 more than you do, but um I don't know. Is that was that a Was it a um career decision?

>> She loves her job and after the baby, she definitely wants to continue on with her career. >> Yeah. >> I like my job, but don't love it, if

that makes sense. >> Okay. Um, and

yeah, I'm just wondering if I can stay home with the kid because I feel like I would be a better dad than I am an employee. >> I love it. It's great. Okay, perfect.

Well, >> and if we sell the rental, what what should we throw that equity to?

>> Technically, it'd go at this stage, it'd go towards your mortgage. Um,

that's where you're at in the baby steps. I mean, once you guys are doing 15% uh and you're putting a little extra for the kids' college, right, 529 once the baby is born, then any extra money would go towards the mortgage. And you really wouldn't do any investing on top of the 15% till after the mortgage is paid. So,

yeah, I mean, right now, if you're uh let's see, you're at 30,000 saved. Yeah.

I mean, that's good. If you wanted to Is that a full six months? Like full budget six months?

Yeah, expenses. That's just our cash aside, not our other assets.

>> So, if you said she's bringing home 10 grand, that feels like three months of savings. I'd probably beef that up to six if you wanted like a like a robust 3 to 6 months since only one person's working. And then, yeah, the rest of it you could put it towards a house. That's what I'd do.

>> Okay. So, pay down the mortgage as fast as we can. >> Mhm. >> And tighten up the budget.

>> Yeah. >> And it would be okay. >> Yeah. [clears throat] I think that's great. Yeah, I mean the numbers aren't crazy. I mean the mortgage 4600

going to 10,000 is like a little bit like a um but I mean if that's what you

guys are choosing then right I mean it's close to >> it's really I mean >> 40 45%.

Le >> let's let's give you some clarity because you said you still have to do dig in on the numbers. If you get the numbers and it's over 30%, you got problems. Like 30 is like >> and that includes back her 50 her match like her um her retirement and all of that, right? That's added back into the salary.

So don't take that out. Add add the retirement back in. That gives you a little bit buffer. >> Um health insurance you can buffer back in, you know?

So some of this is like this is just after tax. It's not after health's insurance and retirement.

>> And if the mortgage is more than 30% of

what she's bringing home, >> that gives us pause. >> Yeah, 25% is the rule, but you can make it work on 30. But just know it's going to be tighter. That's why we said that.

But that's what you're getting to. If you're getting upwards, uh, Michael, of 35 40%, you have to just say no, at least for a season until you can, um, I

don't know, get maybe get this house paid off or maybe it's you working part-time and closing that gap on the mortgage and, you know, working it out like that. >> Yep. For sure. No, it's a good question.

And I think that's always a hard dynamic, Jay, that we get a lot of people >> wanting to go down to one income usually because of a family and they've set their lifestyle as a two income lifestyle >> and yeah, you take one away, the mortgage suddenly is a larger part of your percentage and all this stuff. That's >> that's one reason the rule of thumb of living below your means in general is a great idea. >> That's right. because when you overextend yourself um even beyond two

salaries, right? You're going into debt and all of this, then pulling back is is that much harder. So, um and if the bank, if you go to buy a house, you guys, the bank is going to offer you a lot more money. That's right. Than than what you need to take. And so, you really do want to be more conservative on these numbers so that it gives you options and choices.

>> Um and if you know you want to be starting a family soon and one of you wants to stay home and you're looking to buy a house, remember this, right? like don't build your life around two incomes if you know >> that it's probably not going to be two incomes for the next couple of years. Um but all that's really it's really hard though and then to do a mock budget because we get this question a lot if they can be a stay-at-home parent.

>> Yeah. Run the numbers for real >> and live it out. If you have the opportunity and the time to try it Yeah.

live one month with the budget that would be and see how it all feels cuz sometimes people go down to one income thing. It's going to bring peace and it actually brings more stress >> and for a season, you know, work to [music] get out of debt and put yourself in a better financial situation and then come back home and there's more margin and more peace and more enjoyment. So, [music] um yeah, a lot of different ways to look at it and a values conversation too of what you want for your family for sure. But also, we got to we got to be adults and make the math work.

>> [music]

[music] >> Our

scripture today comes from Isaiah 54:10.

[music] Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken, nor my

covenant of peace be removed, says the Lord who has compassion on you. Uh the

singer Pink, we got Pink. We got we got the book of Isaiah and the singer Pink.

Love it. >> Pink said, uh, "You can't move mountains by whispering at them." >> Okay, Pink. >> All right. I guess that's true. Guess we just [laughter] be a little more aggressive towards those mountains. >> Maybe. I don't know. also a mustard seed, I thought. But [laughter] >> conflicting with with the Bible.

>> Pink, you're >> I don't know. We don't know where we get our quotes. We just We take them.

Listen, >> we take them. >> She's a fabulous singer.

>> Yeah, >> give her that. [laughter] >> And a great She dances. She does all the like aerial trips. >> Yes, we'll give her that. Not quotes.

[laughter] >> All right, let's go to Tracy in California. Hi, Tracy. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. >> You are welcome. How can we help today?

>> Um, I left um teaching. I was an elementary school teacher several years ago >> and now it's time for me to go ahead and apply for my pension and I have a couple

of options that are quite different and I wondered if you could help me decide.

>> All right. What are your options?

Well, I can retire now at 60 on my

application and I will go forward with a

monthly pension of about $1,700 a month.

Or I could backdate to age 55

and that would lower my monthly to,135,

but I would get about $73,000

to cash out. About 50 grand after taxes.

>> 50 grand in addition to the 1,100 that

you'll get monthly.

>> Yeah, that'll still go forward.

>> Okay. Um, what other retirement do you have saved?

>> Um, so, um, my husband and I are debtree thanks to the Ramsey plan. >> Good for you guys.

>> Yeah. And so I have about 360 in

retirement investments.

>> Okay. >> And his his accounts have about 500,000

in retirement investments.

>> Good for you guys. >> And then he will um get he will get his

pension. That'll be about 7,800 a month

plus social security um and Medicare. So or Yeah. Well,

medical and then Medicare Sunday. But um >> what's that amount to? >> So yeah.

>> So 78 total.

>> For him? >> Yeah. >> That was including his social security and everything.

>> Um no social security will be on top of that. >> And how much will that be?

>> Um we're guessing not much. So, we're guessing probably 3,000 at the most,000.

Maybe closer to >> And you will you have some social security as well?

>> No, I will not. I didn't qualify for that because I was a teacher.

>> Okay. That's 10,800. What's your what's your what's your monthly budget? What's it take to operate your lifestyle?

>> Yeah. Well, we live in a very expensive

part of California. So, right now with

pets, etc., Uh we're probably at about

nine. >> Okay. So if you had it, his is 10,800.

Um it takes nine to operate the budget and that's not you ever touching a nest egg. And then if you had the 1,700,

would that be more than enough?

>> Um well, >> because I'm almost wondering this 50,000 could be helpful for you as a nest egg.

And if you can get by on the thousand, then >> I probably would take the lower payment but getting the lump sum of the 50 because then you get to invest it Tracy, right? With a pension, you don't have a lot of control over where they're investing it. So if you get this 50,000, you guys could put that in a great index fund or something. You know what I mean?

And and you don't you may not even have to touch a lot of this retirement just because of his pension and yours.

But if you got that 50,000, you guys are in the upwards of, you know, a little over $900,000 on your own, which is

incredible. And with your house and everything, I mean, yeah, you guys are baby steps millionaires, Tracy. You're exactly um what we talk about. I mean, you're a teacher. I mean, it's just it's phenomenal. Um, so I almost would want more control over the pension and the

amount um or or sorry I would I want

control if so I would want it as soon as possible so that I can turn around and invest it in something that I >> know you know I'm pretty guaranteed of what I'm putting the money into where the pension um you don't really have a lot of control over that. So I would I would opt for the latter getting 1,100

with the lump sum of of what it'll be 75 but 50 after taxes. >> Yeah. This the extra 700 is in incidental for you I think.

>> Okay. Yeah. I guess I guess we I didn't

consider investing because we already had money put away. So, um, you know, I

I don't I I didn't know that

that's what we should do with it, and I was afraid that if it comes to us, it'll be gone, you know, whereas the larger monthly pension would continue for my

life. >> Well, I think it's the opposite. I think that $700 if you add it to your monthly budget, it's going to get pled away on dog food and other things. But the

50,000, I mean, if you turn around and the moment you get it, if you invest it and put it with your other nest egg, that's going to go to work for you in far greater ways than that $700, cuz you weren't going to invest that $700 a month. You were going to likely spend it on lifestyle, right? And you said that your lifestyle ticks right now on $9,000. So, with your husband's pension,

his social security plus your $1,000,

you're already at 11,800 a month, which

is basically more than what you have now. >> And that's not touching your retirement.

And you guys have other savings, right?

Just do you have other savings that's just like an emergency fund on the side?

>> Yes. >> Perfect. Yeah, Tracy, you guys are doing Yeah, you're doing great. Either way, you're going to be fine. So, just hear me say that. If it just if that just keeps you up tonight, then choose the first one, you know, either way. totally fine. But if it were Jade and myself, this is this is what I would choose.

>> All right, let's go to Olivia in Wisconsin. Hi, Olivia. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. How are you? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Um, I was kind of wondering if I should be paying off my student loans while I'm still in college >> or if I should keep taking them out and

wait until afterwards. What would you be um paying them off with? Do you have income? >> Um just other side income money. Um both

my fiance and I work part-time.

>> Okay. So, if it were me, I would be saving to cash flow as much as you can for the remaining college >> and not take out any more loans and see, okay, what do we have to cash flow to not go deeper in debt? And then once you graduate, you'll have six months until those payments start hitting and then you guys can tackle that debt. Or you tackle it's your fiance, but I know you guys probably will be getting married. How much do you have in student loan debt?

>> Um I have about 10,000 and he has about 20. >> Okay. He has 20. You have 10. And how

much uh how much do you have left in school? How much time?

>> Um we both have like two and a half years left still.

>> Okay. And what's it what's it cost per semester?

>> Um per semester for me it's about

five with like um financial aid and

whatnot >> and for him it averages about 10.

>> Okay. Yeah. So I'd be focused like Rachel said on how can I cash flow this

every single semester so I'm not going further into debt >> and cash flowing my portion. You guys don't need to be paying on each other's tuition until you are married. So that is a that's a call we get Olivia where they're like I have $30,000 but I helped my fiance get through school and we never ended up marrying, you know. So

I would be separating these. So whatever work you're doing goes towards your tuition. Whatever work he's doing goes to his. >> And then once you guys get married, do you all have a date set?

>> Yeah, it'll be um May of next year.

>> Beautiful. So after May, then you guys can combine everything. Um, are you guys making enough to to live off of being full-time students? >> Yeah, we make Yeah, we get um we take out extra loans for that, too, as well.

So, we make about 3,000 a month.

>> Wait a minute. That's not made money if you're taking loans for it. >> We want to stop that. Do not take loans to be living off of. You guys need to be cash flowing your lives. And [music] if that means pausing school for a little bit, then we may need to do that. But we're not we don't need to go deeper in debt for lifestyle. So, you either need to find and be working more um or just

Yep. pump the brakes on the on [music] the tuition cuz you guys may not be able to afford it right now. Thanks for the call, Olivia. Well, Jade, great show.

>> Always fun. Thanks to all the guys in the booth and remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace [music] and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 122. Nothing Destroys Your Finances Faster Than Broken Trust | November 28, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERGQygBcglA) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:56:42 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel joined by bestselling [music] author Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Peter is in Philadelphia [music] to kick us off. What's going on, Peter?

>> Uh, hi. How are you? Just um stressed

about bills and thinking about bankruptcy. >> Uhoh. >> Oh man. How much debt do you have?

>> Uh, a little over 25,000.

>> What kind of debt is that? >> Closer to 30. um car, personal loan,

hospital bills, um gas bill,

>> and what's left on the car?

>> The car is 10. The personal loan is 11.

And that's that's just, you know, like personal loan just cuz I'm trying I'm trying to get myself out of a jam. So, I

go back into it. >> Mhm. You're in a cycle. What do you make, >> right? uh 126 um base salary,

>> dude. And >> I think last year I pulled in about 180 for overtime. >> America just lost all empathy here. You make $130,000 and you're calling in trying to file bankruptcy over 20. >> Yeah. What else is going on?

>> What else is eating your lunch? Cuz it's not it's not $25,000 of debt.

>> You could pay off this debt in less than six months. >> Time. I mean, I I do have other things.

I mean, I take care of my kids.

>> Okay. tell us about that because right now we're we're trying to understand where's the problem.

>> Yeah. Well, so I don't have a court order on the kids. I just, you know, whatever they need and and whatever their mom needs, I just take care of.

>> That's true. But again, if you were if you were >> I'm not going to lie, misspending.

>> Okay, that's what it is. Because even if you were married with the kids in the house taking care of them,und you know, $125,000 income would still be a great income. So it's not the kids. It sounds like you're

overspending in other areas. Do you have any kind of budget that you're on?

>> No, not really. >> Okay, there's there's the problem. So, I guarantee you today if you were to just do a an old school budget on a piece of paper, if you just said, "All right, here's the money I take home my my net amount when I when I take home my check, and now I write down what I'm spending money on, and I'm just going to go back through my bank statement." I think you would see the problem. Are you dating anybody?

>> No. >> Okay. So, then you're just spending money on yourself. Is it food?

Are you doing a lot of >> Door Dashing?

>> Um, I don't know. Maybe fast food.

>> Mhm. >> Um, uh, go Yeah, I guess going out fast food. >> Uh-huh. You go out with your buddies, you guys go have some drinks. Anything like that? I don't have time for that. I work too much for work too. >> Okay, so here's what George and I are saying. If you make a h 100 and I mean we could talk about taxes and nickel and dime, but essentially if you made $100,000 a year, 126, you could live on

a hundred and pay this debt off, right?

At the basic level in less than a year, can you live on $100,000 a year?

>> I think so. >> I think so, too. You're a single guy. I mean, yes, you've got your kids to take care of. How many? Two.

>> Three. >> Three. Okay. How old are they?

>> 16, 20, and nine.

>> Okay. And the 20-year-old, is she in college? >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> What do you put towards that every month? >> Um about 600.

>> Okay. >> And what are you taking home? Like what ends up in your paycheck? Is it like $8,000?

>> Oh, that's right. I also have a pension loan out. >> A pension loan? >> Tell us about that. >> Yeah. Oh, that I didn't even I totally forgot about that because that comes out of my check automatically. So that I think I have about probably about 24,000 left to pay on that.

>> Okay. How much comes out of your check?

>> Is 463 a um every two weeks.

>> What caused you to take that pension loan?

>> Oh, that's a long story.

>> Okay. Uh what about credit cards? Are you using those?

>> No. Oh. Oh, glad you said that. So, there's a I got about 6,000 on uh >> Okay.

>> Capital One. >> Okay. Now, now it's starting to come to view. >> We went from 25 up to 50.

Now we're at 56. Anything else you want to tell us about? Like, hand on the Bible. What else do you have going on?

>> Student loans. >> That's I forgot about the Capital One card. >> Did you forget about student loans? >> A year ago.

>> No, I don't have any student loans. >> Thank God.

>> Uh the Capital One card.

>> Okay. >> And the gas bill. >> All right. Are you ready to like take control of this as a grown man with three about grown kids and you're like, "Dude, I'm ready to clean up my life." >> Cuz if you're ready, we can help you. If not, call us back when you are. >> I got to Yeah, I am.

>> Okay. >> I'm just too stressed out.

>> Starting tonight, you're going to make this budget and it's going to give you so much peace just to have the numbers laid out in front of you. Even if it's scary, even to go, "Gh, I don't like what I see." At least it's not the boogeyman and all the unknowns. I'd rather you be scared of the facts than the unknowns. So, we're going to gift you every dollar to actually make the budget.

It's a digital app you can download. And you're going to list out your income for the month. And if that's 7,500, you list that in the income section.

And what you're going to see very quickly is if you're going over budget every month or under budget, and you should have wiggle room to use that money to throw at the debt. And I I [clears throat] want you um to use your bank statement as a guide when you do this because I kind of feel like you have something that's living in your head of what you spend versus what's actual reality. So if you don't use that bank statement, you're going to say that you spend $400 on food, right? When the reality is you might spend like $1,100 on on food, right?

So go back, get the bank statement for September and use that as a guide when you make this budget going into November. Okay? That's going to let you see, okay, now now you're going to see, oh yeah, this pinion thing came out. Now you're going to see, oh yeah, this what I spend on gas.

And it's going to take you, you know, you could do it. If I felt like you had an accurate picture, you could probably do it in 30 minutes. But I really think you need to look at these numbers. It's going to take you an hour or so to get this done, but it's going to give you, like George said, so so much peace.

>> No, [clears throat] nothing serious. Just pennies on Robin Hood.

>> Oh boy. Okay, >> let's delete Robin Hood for now. Can you promise me that? >> Yeah. >> Okay. We're not really building any wealth over here. We're just wasting time. >> And what do you get every year when you do your taxes? Uh, what kind of refund do you get?

>> I don't. Last year was the first time I owed. >> Okay. >> Okay, good. Yeah, the budget, I mean, it's the blood work. It It tells all. It tells everything that's wrong with you.

>> Okay. >> So, once you do this budget, you're going to figure out your main expenses. Here's like food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance, minimum debt payments. Anything beyond that, you're going to get real judicious and cut out.

And that means eating out, that's got to go cuz we got we got to clean this mess up. And we don't want it to take 10 years. Let's do this in 18 months.

>> Mhm. >> Does that sound better?

>> Yeah. >> Well, think about this. You got 56,000 in debt, let's say, just using ballpark numbers. And you throw 2500 a month at

this. You're done in 22 months, less than two years.

That sounds great, right?

>> Yeah. >> And we avoid bankruptcy, which is going to implode our life for the next seven years and hurt your ability to get jobs, to rent apartments. It's going to hurt you in a huge way to file bankruptcy, especially over a over debts these small. >> Yeah.

>> And so, I don't think bankruptcy is your answer. I think you are the answer, Peter. So, hang on the line. We're going to gift you Every Dollar.

Make that budget tonight. It's going to give you a whole lot of clarity. And the new every dollar in that onboarding, that first 15 minutes, it's going to show you how much margin you will create if you decide to commit. And so, it's like we're going to be in your pocket guiding you along the way on this journey.

And we are rooting for you, man. >> We think you're worth it. We think those kids are worth it. And you're very capable.

If someone's willing to pay you $130,000 a year, you are smart enough to make a budget and get out of this debt once and for all. But first, you got to stop going into it. Debt is not a shortcut. It's not the answer, man.

You are.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. uh a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. >> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

Protect yourself. Protect your income.

Protect your family. [music]

[music] This is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw. Open phones at 88825-5225.

[music] You call us and we'll talk about your life and your money. Eli is up next

in Indianapolis. What is happening? Eli,

>> how you doing, guys? >> We're doing well. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. So, my question is, uh,

I lied to my girlfriend. That's not the question. >> That's an admission. That's a confession. We appreciate the honesty here. >> Yeah. >> I'm not a priest, though. I can't help.

[laughter] >> Maybe we can help financially. for for two two years now that I can't afford stuff that uh I'm broke and that I like

staying in. I'm not

I'm not broke. I I I can afford pretty much what I want. I'm out of debt 100%.

I own my house.

>> And she thinks you're broke because for two years you were like, "Hey, listen.

I'm strapped for cash." >> Yep. Pretty much. And she it's not like I've been mooching off her or anything like I I pay my way. I I don't I'm not

trying to be worthless in that matter or anything. But >> why then? >> I just like I've got a 95 95 Toyota

Tacoma. She's always asking me why don't I get something else and I always tell her I can't afford it. >> Why? Why not just tell her I'm happy with my truck?

>> I mean yeah >> what what's behind all the the pathological >> lies? It was pretty stupid, wasn't it?

>> Is it because you just said it and then once you said it, you were like, I got to stick to it now. >> You got to play this weird character.

>> No, I mean, >> what is her financial situation? Is she bad with money? Is that why are you afraid that if you tell her that you are good with money that she'll start mooching off you?

>> That's that's been my that's what I've happened in the past. >> Ah, so there's some past baggage and trauma. And so you're going, well, I'm not going to do that again. That hurt.

>> Yes. >> And so now I'm gonna lie because if she knows I have money, I could get hurt again.

>> Yes. >> Is that a more accurate picture?

>> So because usually behind every lie there's a fear.

>> There's a lie that you've told yourself long before you lied to someone else.

>> Yes. And and honestly, I didn't even realize it's been a lie until

a couple months ago. And then I'm thinking like I'm wanting to get serious with this with this girl and I'm wanting to make things happen. So, she's gonna have to find out sooner than later.

>> How long have you been dating?

>> We've been about two years.

>> So, two years. And you've been saying this from the jump. Um here here's what

I want to know because I I know you're saying that you've been lying. Uh I'm trying to I want to go a little bit deeper on this. So, does does she think that you have mortgage debt or you just haven't mentioned it?

>> Does she think that you carry debt?

>> She knows my house is paid off.

>> Okay. >> She So, I was I was uh I was very proud

whenever I paid my house off. I She was the first one that I let know when I paid my house off about 6 months ago.

>> But like when it comes to doing fun or what you might think of extravagant things, even though you're thinking, "Hey, yeah, I might enjoy doing that." You're lying and saying, "No, I don't want to spend money on that. I just like a simple life, right?

>> Yes. >> Is it affecting your relationship? Is she frustrated that you guys can't enjoy experiences and eating out?

>> No. No. I mean, she's she's a very very simple woman and I' that's kind of what's >> I would just have the come to Jesus conversation. Take her to a different environment and maybe a different place, a date, whatever, and say, "Listen, I got to come clean cuz I want this relationship to be built on trust. I've done a poor job of that." Mhm.

>> And then say, "Here's what I did. Here's why I did it, and I am very sorry. Will you forgive me? Can we move forward with this relationship with honesty?" >> Yes.

Okay. >> That's the only way forward. And her response is now that's up to her how she responds. She might say, "Kick rocks, pound sand.

I'm done with this relationship." >> I just have a I have a funny thought about this though. Like usually, okay, here's the thing, >> Eli. Usually if somebody says they've been lying, I'm like ready to go hard in the paint. But I'm listening to you.

have no debt. You have a paid off mortgage. Part of me is like, how much are you lying? Because I'm like, you seem like you are kind of a simple guy who doesn't want to spend a lot of money because you've done all of these things.

So, I'm trying to I need an example of like what you said that was a lie. Like

what you've been saying to her cuz I'm like it sounds you sound pretty simple to me. the the the the most the simplest

example is uh I was working on my my

pickup truck. It's a 95 Toyota >> and it's kind of a hunk of junk, but I I grew up dirt poor. >> Okay. >> And I love I love that truck. I don't need anything else. >> Yeah. >> I drive I I hardly ever drive it. But she asked me, "Well, why don't I just get something newer and better?" And I told I told her, "I can't afford it." >> Okay. when really you feel like the reason is I just don't want it.

>> It's not a priority for you. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> But you [snorts] felt weird saying that.

>> It was easier for you to like to have the guys of like, well, it's just it's too much money for me.

>> Yes. And then there her her and her her and her uh family went on a cruise a while back and uh I didn't go because I

couldn't afford it is what I said. But really what you're feeling is you're you came from being dirt poor and you're af

it sounds like you're afraid to go back to that and so certain things that other people might splurge and spend money on you're like listen I I don't feel the need to do that.

>> Yes. I I I really don't.

>> Okay. So maybe it's just a simple thing of changing the language and next time you talk to her you're saying you know what I've been telling you I can't afford things but I want you to know my heart. I technically I can afford it. I just don't care about spending money on those sorts of things. You know me, I've got a paid off house. You know, I don't carry debt. And my priorities with money, I feel like sometimes our priorities with money are different. And maybe that's the conversation because I

you kind of painted yourself to be a liar about it. I don't know. It doesn't feel like >> you don't seem like a terrible person.

And it's the weirdest thing to lie. It's most people would say I lied. I'm actually in crippling debt, [laughter] >> right? >> And she thinks I'm very wealthy.

Yeah, just your motivation. You're not telling her your true motivation. >> But I would say I would I think it's okay to just sit her down and say, "I need to be honest with you. I know like this is a big deal to me.

It may not be to you, but my phrasing and language has not been honest." >> Yeah. >> When I tell you that I'm broke, I don't have the money. Really, it's just it's not a priority for me and I don't care to spend money on those things.

>> That's right. and maybe even line it up with the next part of that, which you did let us know that you're kind of worried that if she knows that you technically can't afford to do these things, you're worried that she's going to try to inflate your lifestyle in a way that you don't necessarily agree with or want to do. And I think it's important to have those conversations before you think about things like getting engaged or getting married because you do want to find out, you know, and it's, don't get me wrong, it's okay if she's different from you, but you guys need to start figuring out what that balance looks like.

>> Okay, >> I hope that helps, Eli. That's a very interesting conundrum. Thanks for trusting us with this situation.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. All right, let's try to take a quick one here from Mike in St. Louis up next. What's happening, Mike?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure, how can we help?

>> Hey, um, so I'm wondering if my wife and

I can pause baby steps four and five to

finish baby step six in under 24 months.

And the reason I'm kind of feeling that way is because it I'm I'm looking at it the same way you guys look at baby step 3B where you can pause investing for 2

years or less while you're saving up money for a house. It's just I already have a house. So I'm trying to get your guys thoughts on that.

>> Short answer is I'm always going to tell somebody to walk the baby steps in order. Um how much do you owe on the

house? What are we talking about?

>> Just checked. Yeah, it's 137,000 left.

>> And how many kids do you have?

>> Uh, just one. >> And how old are you guys?

>> Uh, I'm 30 and she's 28.

>> Okay. And the child, I imagine, is very young. >> Uh, actually she's 13. She's from previous relationship. >> Okay. So, we're talking >> And what's the >> college in 5 years? >> Mhm. >> Do you have enough covered right now to cover college or to help pay for it? Uh we have about we have about 30,000 uh which would cover the first uh probably year or two depending on where you are.

>> And you're doing no investing right now.

>> Oh no, we are doing baby steps four and five right now. We would pause to do that. >> I love your your excitement to get the house paid off. I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze on this. To pause the investing, to pause college, I would just keep investing 15%, put some money towards college. The house will get paid off probably a year later. Big whoop. I

I don't think you need the gazelle intensity that you currently have.

You're moving [music] from intense to intentional in baby steps four, five, and six. I'd stay that way. Thanks for the call. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw. The number to call is88255225.

Well, it's time for our longunning segment, Jade. >> And by longunning, you mean this is the third time? >> Third time. >> Okay.

[laughter] >> It's long for me, you know. So, it's called Pick a Side. And this is where we have two people on the line and we have to help them kind of settle a debate and you and I at the end of it have to pick a side after we hear them out and hear their case. >> I enjoy this thoroughly.

>> I pitch Judge George for the name of this segment. They didn't like that. >> Judge George.

>> Oh, >> just a little baby gavel. >> Then I'm going to pitch Judge Jade.

>> Oh, dang. That's so [laughter] much cooler. All right, I give up. Here we

go. Let's see what Jennifer and Joe have to say in Denver, Colorado. What's going on, guys? >> Hi. Yeah, I'm ready to buy a new car and

my husband thinks I'm fine with the one that I have. >> Oo. >> Wow. All right, Joe. What do you have to say for yourself?

>> Well, I do agree that she needs a new car. Um, she just wants to spend way too

much on a new car. >> What is spend? [laughter]

>> 50,000. Okay, that's a lot of money.

>> And that's the most you guys have ever spent on anything outside of a house, I'm guessing?

Yes. >> Uh, yes. >> Okay. Where are you guys at financially?

>> We're on baby step seven.

>> Paid for house, no debt. Love it. And what's your net worth?

>> It would be what our house is worth.

>> Yeah. 600,000 >> plus retirement.

>> 700.

>> So, not quite a million.

>> No. >> Okay. >> Nope. >> All right. And what's the household income?

150 approximately.

>> Did 150. Okay. 150.

>> And how much cash do you guys have in the bank?

>> We have our emergency fund right now of 10,000. >> And I got 10,000 in my business account.

>> So 10,000 and 10,000 if you were to buy this car. A is it were you thinking of

getting something brand spanking new?

And two, how are you going to pay for it? >> What's >> I would want to save up for it.

>> Okay. And I don't necessarily want something new. Um, it's just what I want

just came out. So, I want to wait a

couple of years um until I can buy one a couple years old. >> What kind of car is it? Can Can you tell us? >> It's the Toyota Grand Highlander.

>> Highlander. >> Where's John Deloney when we need him?

That's what he ended up getting.

>> I need like a picture of a Highlander. I I don't really know what that is. I'm going to Google it.

>> They're beautiful. Really great cars.

Okay. So, what is the car you're currently driving? >> I have a 2007 Acura MDX and it's getting

close to 200,000 miles on it.

>> Oh, she's just getting started. >> That's a nice That's a nice >> MDX is invincible. Okay. Love that. And what is he driving? I'm curious.

>> I have a 2004 GMC pickup truck. And then

we also have a 2020 Transit Connect van.

I'm self-employed and so I use that van for work. >> Cool. Okay. Okay. Might be time for both of you to upgrade. Baby step seven, living like no [laughter] one else. So, I'm guessing you guys have a sizable margin in your budget now to save up.

How much could you throw every single month just to kind of a side savings account?

>> Oh, I think we could have it saved in 6 months. >> Wow. >> Yes. Yeah.

>> Pretty simple. So, yeah. I mean, we could save five six thousand a month of our expenses. >> Okay. So, um, tell us Joe, why tell us

what you would do if it were your choice. Obviously, we know Jennifer wants his $50,000 Toyota Highlander, slightly used. In your book, what's something a little bit more reasonable?

>> 30 35,000.

Maybe not the Grand Highlander, but the regular Highlander. >> That's what I'm looking at. This one I'm looking at is like 30,000 2023 Highlander LE. Is that not the one? No,

I want the grand highlight.

>> You want the big boy?

>> They just came out in 2024.

>> Okay, got you. >> Joe, I'm curious where where'd you get that 35 number from?

>> Just your heart.

>> Oh, yeah. Just my heart. Yeah.

>> I mean, I look on Craigslist and you can find the regular Highlanders.

>> I see one. >> 30 30,000 miles for 30,000 or so.

>> Yeah, I see what's going on here. Okay.

Interesting. Um >> Oh, all right. We had a lot of information here.

>> I feel like, you know, we've been doing Dave Ramsey's baby steps for a long time. I feel like I've been living like nobody else. When do I We're on baby step seven. When do I get to live like nobody else? >> Listen, I feel that. So, tell me, when was the last time you did an activity that you would call a live like no one else, the ladder that that you

>> at least a couple of grand where you're like, we dropped some money on this.

>> We went to the Dominican. Yeah. Okay.

>> Okay. >> When was that?

>> Last month. >> Nice. Okay. Okay. >> So, you guys are enjoying life.

>> Yes. >> So, we would say you you've driven like no one else. Now, it's time to drive like no one else. You've driven the the Hoopty Dave car. Now, it's time to drive the Dave car. You know what I'm saying?

>> I made up my mind. I I know what I'm I know how I'm going to vote.

>> It it I got got in a car accident a couple months ago, so it's dinged up on the side. >> Oh, man. Listen, keep you keep playing.

Tell us more. She's like really playing it up. [laughter] >> All these stupid little things don't work on it anymore. Like you cannot reset my clock. You can't tell what time it is in there. >> Jennifer, I call those special features.

>> My seat belt doesn't go back.

>> Listen, I got my phone in the car. I got my Apple Watch in the car. I know what time it is. It's fine. That's not a big deal. But I'm with you. Here's Okay. Can I vote? >> I know what my vote is. Are we casting votes? >> I think we're casting votes. You guys ready to hear the the verdict?

>> Let's say it on three. >> All right. Or the name of the person that we think is right. >> Uh yeah. Say the name of the person you think is right on three.

>> One, two, THREE. JENNIFER.

>> YEAH. >> OH MY. >> JENNIFER, you just won a brand new No, I'm just kidding. [laughter] >> Toyota Highlander.

>> Be fantastic. Now Dette said from Broy Hill, I could be on >> you think. Are you shocked?

>> No, I'm shocked. Of [laughter] course, Joe was shocked. >> Here's the thing, cuz I know this. We bought my wife a a new to us car. It was a slightly used luxury car, and it hurt

my soul, Joe, to write that check.

>> But I also knew this is part of living the plan. >> It's part of the plan. >> And I have a hard time letting go and writing a big check like that. But when you pay for it in cash, you go, "Oh my gosh, that was a lot." And then you go, "This is paid for.

This is amazing. This is a huge blessing. And it's why we lived like this for so many years. And so I think you guys are doing the right thing.

Just so you know the parameters here.

>> So that's where I'm going. All right. 150K is your income. Everything you own should be 75K. >> Listen, Joe, you could turn around and get yourself a $50,000 car and be all right. >> Now, what is this Transit Connect worth?

>> Um about 20,000, I guess.

>> Yeah. >> So even the 20 plus the 50 for hers, that would be 70. You still got some wiggle room there.

>> Not too much. Not too much. And you know, maybe you wait three years and you get the Highlander, but I think you you go for it in two years from now and you get a 2-year-old grand Highlander. And

uh if you can't wait that long, then just go for a normal Highlander and you can always upgrade later. >> Nothing says you have to drive this car for the next 20 years, which is kind of how you guys have been living, >> right?

>> I feel like Joe's really disappointed of us. [laughter] He was waiting. No, you shouldn't spend more than 30.

>> But I think that will help you guys to go, okay, half of our income shouldn't be tied up in these things. That means we do need to scale back because this transit plus the car Joe's going to get plus the car Jennifer is going to get, it's going to add up to be >> a large part of our world. And then once you hit millionaire status, you can go buy that brand new car. And here's why.

It's not a, you know, fundamentalist thing. It's just that too much of your world would be tied up in a depreciating asset. But when you have a million dollar net worth, you can stomach that hit on depreciation a little easier.

>> And so you guys will be there in no time. How old are you, too?

>> I'm 45. >> And I'm 56. >> Oh my goodness. You got so much time to live and drive like no one else. And you know what, Joe? I think it should be time for you to upgrade after. What is your dream car, Joe? >> It's a $30,000 car. We know that.

>> It's the one he's got.

>> I actually love my truck. [laughter] >> He wants another GMC pickup.

No, he wants he wants to keep the one he has the one I got.

>> That's amazing with it. >> It's got an 8ft bed. It's got the diesel and I'm good. >> Thank you, Joe. They don't make those 8 foot beds anymore. All these new pavement princesses out here got the tiniest little beds. I'm like, what are we even buying pickup trucks for anymore? >> So then Joe, real quick, tell us if you could spend $30,000 on anything, not a vehicle. What is your thing? Like what's your live like no one else thing?

>> I would do a boat.

>> Hey. Okay, there we go. >> Now we got it. [laughter] Joe's in the boat. Thank you guys so much for the call and for letting us have some fun. Excited for you guys to make that cash purchase of that beautiful new to you car very, very soon. More of your calls coming up.

88825-5225.

This is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

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You're listening [music] to the Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. Why refi [music] refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. Now you guys, private student loans are a are different than federal student loans, right? Like Sally May. So learn more about this custom refinancing option and a lumpsum payoff option you could qualify for uh after 24 months. Go

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>> Today's question comes from Alyssa in Pennsylvania. Oh, never mind. It's Courtney in Iowa. We had two. I'm going to go with Courtney in Iowa. Final answer. Uh she she asked, "My ex-husband and I received a large inheritance during our marriage and set aside college money for both of our children.

Now, my ex is financially strapped and has asked our youngest son for his college fund, which he didn't end up needing to fund his education. Our son is 24 and getting married soon, and I trust he will use the money responsibly.

I can't believe my ex has put our youngest son into a terrible position.

Is our son morally obligated to give his father this money?

>> Short answer, I'm going to say no. There's no moral obligation. There's no legal obligation.

>> No. And I I have questions, though. I

mean, my first thought is, okay, the parents put the money aside for the kids in the 529. they list the child as the

beneficiary unless there was a

discussion that was like, "Hey, what if you don't use this money, it goes back to us and they change the beneficiary back to themselves or the wife or whatever." I don't know. But if it's still in the son's name, I'd be like, "This is my money." >> Or I mean, he's about to How cool would it be to change the beneficiary to their kid? >> That's what I'm saying. Yes.

>> In a year or two or five or whoever, you know? I I think that's and part of this is we're enabling this ex's bad behavior. For a grown man to just suddenly be financially strapped and need to rob his kid's college fund tells me a lot about the character of this person, >> right? Because a 529 is a gift.

is you gifting the gift of education to your >> Well, the confusing part is this came from a large inheritance during their marriage that they then set aside in a college fund. >> Yeah. But still, even if they had worked to save the money, you know, it would still be money that they earmarked and said, "This is a gift to our kids for their education." So, in many ways, it does feel like revoke like like turning around on a gift. >> Yeah.

>> I'm I don't Yeah, I don't like it. And I don't like this ex having I think he needs to find a different method to get this money than to rob the college fund, which by the way will come with a whole bunch of penalties. You got to pay income taxes plus the 10% penalty on top of that. And so I I'd hate to see that when this money's been growing taxfree, it can be used for future generations to allow them to go to college debtree.

>> When this son has kids.

>> Yeah. And if you're I mean, let's just pretend for a second. Let's play this out, George. Let's say how much money would need to have been in there to pay for kids college? Maybe. Maybe there's $70,000 in there to pay for the whole thing. if he didn't use it. Then there's

this idea of my ex is financially strapped. Like you don't suddenly up and need 50 or $70,000. That's overtime

>> many decisions being made. So yeah,

>> my final answer is >> this whole thing just gives me heartburn just looking at it. But I would say uh no, your son is not morally obligated to give his father this money. And I wouldn't if I were him >> and if I were the mom. So, I can keep going on this. And if I were the mom, it was both of their inheritance.

>> That's we don't know where this came from and all that.

>> Well, she says, "My ex-husband and I received an inheritance." I'm like, part of this is on her, too. Like, she should get to decide. And if she says, "No, this is our son's money. That on that.

>> I can figure it out." >> All right. >> Thanks for the question. That's a real common math problem. It hurt my brain.

>> These are the hard topics that George and I go after on the Ramsay show. It's very hard-hitting content. It's >> what we do. >> All right. Let's go to David in Providence, Rhode Island. What's going on, David?

>> Oh, hello. >> Hello. How are you?

>> Hi. Hey. All right. I'm good. How are you? I'm I'm I like the how Dave puts it. I'm better than better than I deserve. >> Okay. Love to hear it. How can we help today?

>> Um so, me and my wife are in an interesting um financial choice right

now. Um and I think it's kind of like a

piv pivotal choice and I just need some advice. Um, so we have no debt, no kids.

Um, Lord willing, we'd like to have kids in about 5 years.

>> Okay. >> Um, and then at that point, you know, we

would go down to like a single income.

You know, we we just would both value her being a full-time mother. Um, so we

have about4 to $45,000 saved up in the

bank. >> Okay. >> Um, and we're currently renting an apartment right now. Um our rent is uh

$1,575 a month.

>> Um which is sort of average for the area that we live in. >> Um so our question my uh my question rather

is um do we buy a home that we can

afford right now that would not really suit us when we have children? Meaning we would we would probably have to sell it in about 5 years. >> Mhm. or do we continue to rent for like another 3 to 5 years and then buy a

house that would be bigger and maybe maybe suit us more as a a larger family?

>> Why would you need to sell when you have one kid? >> That's what I was going to ask.

>> Um yeah, I mean we really wouldn't need to sell for like the first kid. Um we we

kind of both would like to have more than just one though. Um but yeah, I mean like >> but that stretches you to like five or that stretches five years to like maybe seven years. No.

>> Um, >> as far as space, because an infant is like this big.

>> Yeah. Well, so maybe I should define the space a little better. I >> mean, they don't make onebedroom homes >> or >> Well, [laughter] or we're looking at is is 200 200,000 for a not really a home,

I guess. It's more like a cottage. It's 650 square ft.

>> That's like a tiny home. That's super small. Yeah, it's pretty.

>> Okay. Uh, that does change a little bit.

That's That's tiny. >> So, what if we got something more reasonable? Let's say it's a two or threebedroom to where you could grow into it even with two kids, even if it was a little bit tight. What would that cost you?

>> Um, in this area, I mean, there's nothing. It would either need such a

large amount of repair that it's like really a huge undertaking. Um, like more

than just an average fixer upper.

>> So, what about one in good condition?

You don't have to do some HD TV show. be probably about like 350 >> or so. >> That's reasonable. And you're going to keep saving a down payment. Is 45 everything you have in savings? Does that include your emergency fund or is this just earmarked for down payment?

>> That's that's everything we have. Yeah.

>> Okay. That does change it a little bit, too. >> So, I would And what's your household income?

>> Um, yeah. So, right now with both of us, it's it's about 160 to 170,000 a year.

But if you know after we have a kid and and my wife would stop you know um

making an income right then that would go down to about I don't know 110 or so.

I mean it depends on with me getting a raise between now and then and whatever but it you know around 110 >> something like that. I would say you're on the path and I would just set the home budget that makes sense and then go, okay, well, how much more down payment do we need to save up to make this affordable to where it's no more than 25% of our take-home pay? And that I would base that take-home pay off of your income alone since you know that's the goal. >> Yeah.

And the good thing is your rent is not astronomical. Like your rent is not far out that I'd be like, you got to get out of this rent. You're paying 3,000 bucks a month for rent, right? You guys' rent is at a good spot and I don't think that I'd be interested.

I know it's not an actual tiny house, but I don't think I'd get into this tiny house deal. I think I'd ride the wave and just go, you know what? We're going to take the f instead of living five years in this 600 square foot house that basically is an apartment.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of what we were thinking about. I I value the opinion. Thank you so much.

>> For what it's worth, our apartment is actually bigger than than the house. It's nothing crazy, but it's it's >> doesn't take much. 700 foot apartment.

You just beat the cottage >> for sure. >> So, I would I would go slow. There's no urgency or rush on this. And I would just stack up as much as I can while you have two incomes and no kids.

Now is the time. >> Yeah. >> And you might need to save up 100 grand or 150 grand to make this payment affordable for your solo income in the future. But that's what I would do.

I would aim for that 350 house and try to get there as soon as possible because Jade, like we know, it's a moving target. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Three years from now, that might be a 450 house. >> That's right.

And of course, we never want that payment to be more than 25% of your take-home pay all-in. That's thinking about things like homeowners, all of it.

So, that's the framework that we're working with. Hey, thanks for hanging out with us. That does it for this hour of the show. George and I will be right [music] back with you before you know it. This is the Ramsey Show.

Heat.

Heat.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw this hour and the number to call isle88255225

if you want to join the conversation and pose your question for the good of the group and for the good of America. Chris has chosen to do that. He's in Washington. What's going on Chris?

>> Hi guys. Thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate it. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> So I my wife and I we're new parents. Uh well relatively new. Our son's 9 months old. Um, super excited about that. Uh,

we made the decision to have her stay at home uh because [clears throat] daycare was too expensive and we're just trying to figure out um if you guys have any tips and tricks to uh you know, managing our money going forward and making sure that we're setting ourselves up for success in retirement and setting him up for college and all that good stuff.

>> Yeah. So, what was she making before she

decided to stay home?

She was making about 75,000 a year.

>> Okay. And what do what do you make?

>> Uh I currently make 110 roughly annually

and then I have a side business that I run that brings in anywhere from 20 to 45 a year. >> Okay. So we'll just say that you're at

130. You feel good about that?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And so have you guys done a new every dollar budget with this 130? Because how much does that allow you to take home every month?

you know, that's that's been really really new for us. Um, and so, you know,

if I had to put a number on it, I mean, our we have our mortgage, we have no other consumer debt. Um, we've done a really really good job. Got all of our vehicles paid off and everything like that. >> Um, and so, you know, our mortgage is roughly 24,00

you know, 300 350.

>> Yeah. I don't think your mortgage is going to be the problem. I think

clarity. >> I'm wondering, it sounds like you have like a little bit of regret like uh should we have done this? Things feel tight. So, where is that coming from?

>> Yeah. I just I'm I'm so um analytical

when it comes to like looking at our budget and we've, you know, both worked really really hard coming out of, you know, roughly $95,000 in student loan debt, you know, over the past three years. And um you know, we've we've just

worked really really hard and I don't ever want to put our family in a place where we're in in need for money, you

know what I mean? And um we've done a really really good job of that. We have a bunch of money put aside already, you know, and um >> so you're following the baby steps to a tea.

>> Yeah, pretty I mean I would say so.

Yeah. >> You said that, but you didn't answer the question when I said how much you're bringing home every month.

Oh yeah. I mean we bring home probably

uh let's see uh 40 no 60 800 a month

roughly. >> So I'm going to challenge >> after >> I'm I'm going to challenge you to for your own good because you described yourself in one way and don't get me wrong it probably was the way that you were before you had [laughter] an eight-month-old. Um, you said I'm very analytical and I'm really on this, but the truth is right now you're actually not on your numbers. You're kind of guessing at them.

And I have a theory that >> the reason that you're feeling that uh that tightness or that feeling of like you don't like the way your money is feeling, I think it's more because you don't know exactly what's going on and you don't have a clear path and plan for it. That's why I asked about your your every dollar budget because if you look at that tonight with your wife once the baby's down >> once you guys have, you know, had something to eat and you say, "Okay, we're going to look at every dollar tonight. We're going to plug in our numbers.

We're going to log on HR and find out exactly what the check is and now we're going to plug in the mortgage, everything we think we're spending money on. What does life look like now with a 8-month-old? How much are we spending on diapers now versus when the baby was first born?" All of those things are going to give you a much clearer picture on what it looks like today with the new lifestyle that you're in today. And I think that's actually going to help you because 130,000 um where you live, I think you should be okay.

Now, don't get me wrong, to lose 75,000 a year is a lot of money.

Right. >> Right. >> And you're telling me that it costs $75,000 a year to daycare one baby?

That's not true.

>> No, no, it it wasn't much of that. It was, you know, more so, you know, I want

a a right where it was expensive to do daycare and b for the for the amount of money it was going to cost us, you know, she wanted to stay home and wanted to >> okay >> uh raise our son and be >> which is fine. That's fine. But the way you framed it was it wasn't worth it for her to go to work. You made it seem like it was more of a cost thing. So, it's just personal values.

Yeah. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, you're right.

>> And that's fine. I think all of that though, what I'm trying to get you to is clarity. And I think if you can clearly say we're doing this because we value >> mom being at home with baby, that is a whole different conversation than it's too expensive, we can't afford, right?

So now you're talking about real things which is no this is a value of ours which knowing that is also going to reflect how you feel now about the budget being shorter because you've said no in our hearts we want this so now we are able to tackle a smaller budget or working with a smaller income. Do you see what I'm saying? I'm just trying to get real. I mean, George, you know how it feels to have a eight-month-old at the house.

You're not making a newborn, a 2-year-old. Life is chaotic. And that's where you and your wife sitting down looking at the budget every month and just going, "Okay, I'm going to bring seven grand in this month and our mortgage is 2,400. We're going to have a,000 left over.

>> Yes, we do. >> Are you investing 15% out of every paycheck?

>> We are. >> Okay. And then beyond that, how much margin would you say you have at the end of every month? Or is it disappearing into random spending?

>> I would say more disappearing into random spending. >> I think that's what's making you feel out of control because you're analytical. You're going like the math ain't mathing. There should be two grand laying around and it's gone.

And it's amazing if you like to take take all the receipts of all the money you spent, it'll make a little bitty book of the reasons why we feel that way. And so that's where budgeting with the new every dollar with your bank connected the transactions are flowing in total transparency and accountability with you and your wife and then you might decide, oh, you know what?

We just need to up the budget line item to account for that instead of going red flag, red flag, you're overbudget. So I think I there's probably just some disongruity with like what you're actually spending versus what you think you're spending. Yeah, your life has changed a lot. And I mean, there's the kid and then there's Yeah, wife is at home. Moneywise, things have changed.

And it's just like George said, reflecting your your your line items to

updating your line items to reflect that change.

>> Yep. No, I appreciate that a And and that's something that we've actually embarked on recently is kind of combining our finances just listening to you guys and >> kind of buying into that buying into that idea of, you know, becoming a unit,

you know, and and we're, you know, working through those things. And so I I really appreciate the feedback. >> I love it. I think you're doing a great job and I think that you're a >> you're doing better than you think. >> Uh-huh. And you're a reflection of the fact that this whole thing is a process.

Like no one just in one day or in one listen or in one movement gets it all.

It is like building blocks stacking on each other and like you said, first we did the combined finance thing, then we did the debt payoff thing. All of that is stacking up and I just I think you're doing fabulous. >> Are you using a spreadsheet right now?

Are you using a budgeting app?

>> Yeah, we're using we're using a spreadsheet cuz that's that's uh >> How many times has she said, "Hey, can I look at that budget spreadsheet? That sounds fun." >> Uh zero. [laughter] >> Thank you. Final answer, your honor.

I I'm case closed on that. We're going to send you the brand new allnew Every Dollar for you to have something that not only would a wife like to look at, but now she doesn't have to say, "Can I see that spreadsheet?" You can just say, >> she'll open the app. >> She'll open her own app and be able to see it. >> There we go.

Proud of you guys. You're making progress, man. That's all you [music] can hope for.

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[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

This hour the number to call is 888255225.

You call us up, we'll talk about your life and your money. Jacob is up next in Los Angeles, California. What's going on, Jacob? >> Uh, hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, so I kind of need some I guess some

direction in terms of what to do next in my life financially. Um, my parents

recently went through a divorce and so I kind of had to take over um as like the

main contributor to the household financially. I'm currently living with my mother and my younger sibling. Um, so

I'm kind of paying for mortgage, uh, you

know, all the insuranceances. Uh, >> why why is that? >> Why is mom not working?

>> Oh, no, no, she is. She is. So, um,

because, uh, you know, cost of living in California is insane. Um, I the way we

set it up is I pay for I say I want to

estimate like 60 to 70% of my take-home pay. Um, and then the rest is made up by my younger sibling and my mother. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 28 right now.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, when you say 60 to 70% of your income, tell us dollar-wise how much how much money is this costing you every month? Uh, I would say maybe around 28

to 3,000. >> Okay. So, you're spending 3,000 bucks kind of paying the the the things that make the house go around. And tell me again, explain to me again why mom is not contributing. >> No, no, she is. Um, but >> but how much is she contributing if you're contributing that much?

>> Right now, she's contributing maybe like 1500. >> And explain to me why that is.

Um, well, she doesn't really make much.

Um, so because I make the most in in the household right now, so I wanted to, you know, obviously >> So, did she ask you to take on the brunt

of this or was this something you sort of stepped up and went, "Mom, here's what I'm going to do." >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I definitely stepped up.

I mean, it isn't fair for her to or for me to force her to try and find a job out of nowhere. Um, >> the scary part is it's not fair for you to prop up a lifestyle that's not sustainable for them. Cuz let's say you go and get married next year, you move out, you're not still paying all of their bills. >> Hey, how old's your sister?

>> Uh, my sister is 25. Um I guess to give

a little bit more information um so in

terms of the unsustainable lifestyle it it more or less is the reason we she got a job is because if me and my sister were to contribute you know 100% of our

take-home pay we would be able to afford you know all the groceries and you know everything else to make the to live. Um,

but because she as a, you know, wonderful mother as she is, she's like, "Oh, I don't want you or both of you to, you know, not have any savings for the future." So, she said, "I'm going to get a job to do it, but because >> objection. Wait a minute. Let me let me jump in here." Okay.

>> Couple quick quick questions. You guys live in Los Angeles, but it doesn't sound like it's for the reason of a career. Like, nobody's like, "Listen, I started my my firm here, and now this is where I'm at." It sounds like you guys are kind of making ends meet to use your terminology. Why are you still living in such an unsustainable to quote you and

inexpensive area?

>> Um well my dad's business was here so we all moved here and my mom does help with that. Um, even through the divorce, you know, it wasn't an ugly divorce. You

know, now it was one of those situations where, you know, they got married, you

know, out of, you know, necessity because they needed to help each other, >> but that money is not filtering into your lifestyle now because they're now divorced and the two children are grown.

So, my question stands, it sounds like if this is an unsustainable situation for your mom, and I'm saying your mom because the two kids are grown, like you're grown. Um, it sounds like she's got to decide where can she live that's not Los Angeles, California and and afford her lifestyle because here's my second part of this. You're 28, your sister's 25. Typically, the reason that

somebody would say somebody your age would say, "Hey, I'm living at home." is typically because they've got student loans, they've got bills, and it's cheaper for them to live at home than it is for them to maybe do something on their own. And in your case, that's not really the case because you're paying for your mom's life. And I understand that there's, you know, been something traumatic here with the divorce, but it still doesn't place that ball in your court. Do you see what I'm saying?

And so I think all three of you have to go, what does my life look like?

independent person? Cuz do you have debt? >> No, I have no debt. >> You have no debt. There's nothing that stops you from saying, "Hey, I'm going to go a further radius out from, you

know, Los Angeles, California, wherever that is, and I'm going to figure out where I can live to do a job that I can make more money doing and support my lifestyle." What are you earning now?

And what is your job now?

>> Uh, I'm a I'm an analyst for a film studio and I earn gross is around 80,000. >> Okay. So, that's great. That to me, $80,000, you're doing good. Like there's

got to be a life that you can have on $80,000. Is that fair enough?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, Jacob, on my screen here, it says, "How do I make enough to take care of my mom?" Is that the ultimate question? Are you wanting to make more so she can stop working?

>> Yeah. Um, she's working right now to

help contribute, but obviously, you know, she's kind of getting up there in

age. I don't know how to put that delicately, but um but because she her

first language, >> she's turning 60, but she does have some

like health issues.

>> So, what is her plan for retirement?

Because right now, you just it's going to stunt your growth as an independent person to just well, I got to take care of mom for the rest of my life. I'm going to live at home. What if she lives to be 90? >> Now you're 58 and still propping up her life. >> Mhm. So, >> because she didn't prepare.

>> Yeah. That's because that's the kind of situation I'm in. Like she does kind of have like a very loose retirement plan.

I don't think it's as structured as I would like personally. >> What is it? >> But lay it out. >> Um so she so she said that her plan is to >> um well we we'll still live in this house that we or this condo that we have and you know she >> Did you say we like all of you will still be living together for her retirement?

>> No. No. My sister is um planning to move out and so it'll just be me and my mother. But >> this is not good.

This is not good. This is not good. >> Yeah.

But um but yeah, once she is old enough to get social security, she says she plans on finding like one of those um like I guess like apartments or whatever that is like income based or like lowinccome uh something like that and um

kind of live there. But I guess another piece of information is my parents do have a second property that's paid off and that's they're getting like rental income, but because of the divorce, they were debating whether or not selling it or just splitting. >> Do you know what it's worth? If they were to sell it, what would they what would they take to have to split?

>> Um, I think collectively if they sold it, they'd get maybe around a million.

>> Okay. So, she'd get 500,000 a and then have to take out fees and whatnot, right? >> Yeah. Is she getting rental income right now from this property?

>> Yeah. Yeah, right now it's already been paid off for years and they've been kind of >> How much is she making from that?

>> Um, now that it's split, she'll make around a thousand. >> And then what is she making from her job? >> Uh, right now she's only she's in like

elderly care, so I guess it's based off how many people she takes care of. Um, she's only taking care of one person.

Um, so she earns around 1,500 net, but

she says she is planning on, you know, assisting another person that would bring her income to me. >> Listen, I don't mean any harm. You got to separate yourself from the situation.

This is going to pull you under, dude. >> You're going the opposite direction by saying, "I'm going to work more so mom doesn't have to work because that becomes enabling >> and you're going to have to keep that up for the rest of your life cuz mom's not going to up and get a job 10 years from now if you decide to move out." >> Right. And right now you're paying, like to your point, you're paying 60 to 70% of the household expenses. She has no reason.

And that that that really puts um you in

a bad position. If I were your mom, I would be talking to ex-husband. I'd say,

"We need to sell this property because I need this $500,000 and I need it in my nest egg so it can grow for me for the next 10 years." >> And she still has to work for the next 10 years. That's right. Oh my goodness.

>> So, Jacob, we're basically telling you you to do everything opposite the way you're headed right now. And it's because we care for you. We care for your mom. We want her to have a great life. And currently, her loose retirement [music] plan is going to end up stunting your growth for the next decade or two or three. And so, we need

to end this codependence right now.

Otherwise, it's going to hurt both of you in the long run. So, sorry to hear [music] that, man. This is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

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[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

Open phones at88255225.

Jessica's up next in Nashville, Tennessee, right up the road. What's going on, Jessica?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help today?

>> So, me and my husband recently started listening to the podcast and really getting into finances, and we only have about $2,000 left on our credit card, which will be done within the end of the year. We're looking at our student loans, and we just don't know what to do. Mine are all kind of like little tiny like 2,000 3,000 loans whereas his

is like a giant >> $45,000 loan and we don't know if there's a difference and who we should tackle first. >> Okay. Well, I love number one that you guys are kind of on this road together.

You've decided it's important for you both to pay off the debt and you've decided that it's important to work together. So, kudos to that. Um, for this it really is just the the methodology of the debt snowball. And all that is is we list all the debt between the both of you in order from smallest to largest based on balance.

So, not payment amount, not interest amount, but by balance. So, right now, you're kind of already doing that. You've got 2,000 left on this credit card. And then what you do with these student loans is you both pull up your, you know, screen of your provider and you go through smallest to largest.

Like you said, yours are busted up in little bitty guys and so you list those smallest to largest. And the same thing with his. Is Is his a federal loan or a private loan? >> It's a federal.

>> Okay. And it's just one, right?

>> No, he had one loan that was going to go into collections and they told him that he had to consolidate. So one giant federal loan now. >> Okay. Gotcha. So that's going to be the final one that you pay. But the good news is because you've worked the snowball, you will have gotten back all those little bits and pieces of payments, so you'll be able to hit it with a big shovel. Um, what what's the combined amount that you have in student loans? >> I have about 65.

>> 65 and he's got 45.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And then uh what's you guys' combined income?

>> 100,000. >> Okay. So, you've got a little bit of a a journey here. You know, you've got 112,000 to pay off and you're making a h 100,000. Um, have you jumped on to every dollar? Because we have a really great financial road map that you can plug in all your numbers and kind of project what your payoff date is going to be and then you can project when you'll be on baby step three and how long that'll take. Have you done that yet?

>> We are on my every dollar. Um, the

premium expires today actually. We just sat down last night and all the numbers in there. >> How did you didn't pay for it yet, did you? >> No sir. This feels like a plant.

Jessica, did you call in on the day of the expiration hoping we'd give you every dollar? >> I promise I didn't. I just happened to look. >> It's fine.

Either way, we're going to give it to you. >> Yeah, we're going to give it to you. >> We're going to give it to you. So, hang on the line after we're done [laughter] and we'll help with that.

And what I love about Every Dollar at the bottom, you're going to list those debts with the minimum payment, with the balance, and it will list them all for you, smallest to largest. And it's a great way to keep track of how how much extra you're putting on that little one and when it'll be paid off. So, that's going to be a big help. But it really is, I think, psychologically motivating to see the little ones get knocked out.

$45,000 ahead of us." But you're probably also going to be making more money a year from now than you are, right? >> Yeah. Hopefully. >> Are you guys doing any side hustles or anything to supplement that $100,000?

>> He does. He does a lot of side projects on the weekends that probably bring about 400 in.

>> Oh, 400 a month every Oh, 800 a month.

Yes. >> Okay, great. Okay, good. So, yeah, I my recommendation I think that if you have debt, and this is not just for you, but anybody has debt, they need to be bringing in anywhere between 5 and 2,000

extra dollars. That for me is the >> 500 to 2,000. >> Yeah. At least 5,000.

But if you can get to 2,000, you're you're swinging for the fences. 500. And [clears throat] so yeah, I like that plan. And Jessica, the fun part for me, and maybe I'm a math nerd, I go, "Okay, how little can we live off of out of this 110?" And that might mean we pause investing.

It should mean that if you guys are currently investing, let's pause that to get some money back in our budget. And then with our take-home pay, we go, "All right, it takes us $2,000 to cover all of our basic bills.

>> Probably about 15 to 20 years.

>> That sucks. Can we agree? 15th or wait a

second. >> She's saying if she makes minimum payments on all the debt. >> Oh, minimum payments. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[laughter] >> But now now with Jessica's current plan, it's probably more like four or five years.

>> I think so. >> And the Jade and George plan is like, how do we do this in two years? Maybe two and a half. >> Mhm. >> And that means there's a gap. All right.

Instead of throwing a thousand at the debt, we got to throw 2,000. Yeah.

>> And here's what we're going to cut. And that's where the budget is going to be your best friend and show you the reality of where you're spending and where what can go. And here's a couple of freebies. I mean, are you guys getting a tax return every year?

>> Um, it's only like 300 bucks.

>> Two 300 bucks. Okay. I mean, you can look at that and see if you can get it down. Probably not. That's pretty close.

Um, what about investing? Are you doing any investing?

>> I only do the match my company does into my 401k. >> Okay. How much is that every month?

>> Uh, it's 4%, but I just started a new employer, so it hasn't even begun yet cuz I have to be there for 3 months.

>> Perfect. So, let's just not start that because that's going to free up hundreds of dollars that could be going toward debt. And I promise you, we'll get back to investing with a vengeance later on.

>> But what happens for most people, Jessica, is they go, "Well, I want the match, and therefore, I'm willing to stay into debt longer, and I'm kind of comfortable here." And then they do 3 or 4% for 10 to 15 years.

>> That's right. >> I'd rather see you do 15% 2 years from now. >> That's right. Next category, cuz I'm just trying to help you find money. I want this to happen fast. What do you spend every month on going out to eat?

>> Um, we have a budget of $50.

>> Okay, good. What about groceries? It's just the two of you.

>> It is um my husband does he's like a gym

guy, so our budget is about $800.

>> Okay, that's not bad.

>> Yeah, you might be able to do it a little less, but that's not bad. $800 for two folks. >> Get Get that like that boneless chicken thighs from Aldi. You stock up on those.

I don't know about a chicken thigh, George. >> Well, yeah, Jay's not [laughter] she's not dabbling in that world. I'm just I'm a big gym rat myself, Jade, if you can't tell. No, >> I could tell by your bulging biceps, >> but I do watch a lot of videos about protein for some reason.

I [laughter] don't know. I'm very intrigued by the lifestyle, Jessica. >> But the point here, Jessica, is we're going through the budget with a fine tooth comb. And this is, like I said, for anybody listening, withholding is a great place to start investing.

Look at that food budget. Um, cars, a lot of times people's opportunity is sitting in their driveway.

>> Um my husband's is a 2012 completely paid off. >> Okay. >> Um and then mine was gifted to me by my father. So I actually don't pay for it.

Um >> so that's paid off.

>> Yes. A 2018 Toyota.

>> Okay. Good. >> Another thing that's really uh people don't think about is insurance across the board. Reshopping insurance. If you go to ramseysolutions.com/checkup, we have a great coverage checkup. It'll take you just a few minutes to do the quiz. And I helped a friend here actually uh reach out to Xander. They reshoed their insurance and they had better coverage while saving 80 bucks a month. 80 bucks back in the budget.

[clears throat] So just doing something like that, Jessica, with homeowners auto across the board could save you a h 100red bucks, 200 bucks a month.

>> Yeah. And then there's the utility type stuff. You can go in, call your cell phone provider and say, "Hey, are you offering any deals if you still have cable in Baby Step 2?" >> Yeah. What are you guys paying for your cell phone bill?

>> I'm sorry. Can you repeat that? What are you paying for your cell phone bill?

>> Um, so right now ours is separate because I do own my phone and that should be knocked out by the end of the year, but mine is $87 a month and his is

60, but we plan on going to Mint Mobile where it's like 30 bucks a month.

>> I was going to say uh T has been a great sponsor of the YouTube channel and they're 25 bucks a month for unlimited.

>> You can't beat it, >> which is incredible. So that that's a big savings. Some people are just paying like 120 bucks a month for their phone plan, not even including the phone. So, just some ideas, Jessica.

Uh, along with Every Dollar, I'm going to send you my book, Breaking Free from Broke. I want you to specifically read the margin is Breathing Room chapter. In there, I lay out a bunch of the ideas that Jade and I threw out and many more. Uh, just to get you going because we're pumped for you guys to become debtree.

>> Yes. I mean, we also made progress. We started with about $16,000 in credit card debt and we're down to maybe 2 3,000. I think it's 2400.

Um, so thank you guys so much. This was really helpful. >> Love to hear that. And you're right down the road in Nashville, so come see us for your debtree scream. Looking forward to meeting you guys and celebrating in person. Hang on the line. We're going to send you Every Dollar Premium and my book, Breaking Free from Broke. Hope those resources help you along the way.

More of your calls coming up. This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw. If you're enjoying the show today or any other day for that matter, do us a quick favor. The show is free.

What I'm asking you to do is free. Just hit the subscribe button, hit the follow button, leave us a kind review, share it with a friend, maybe it's a a clip or a highlight from the show, a full episode, tell them, "Hey, you got to check out this podcast." All of that helps us get higher up on the algorithms, and it's not for our own egos. It's so that we can reach more people who may not know that this show even exists. and we're trying to dis displace all the filth and nonsense out there in this toxic money culture and you guys sharing you're the best marketing plan we have.

Danielle is up next in Houston, Texas.

What's going on, Danielle?

>> Hi, good afternoon. How are you doing?

>> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Awesome. Awesome. So, I'm in a little dilemma that I've almost been dealing with for almost a year with my vehicle.

>> Okay. Um, after attempting to make a repair, um, I started having the same issues. Now I need a new engine. Um, I

still owe about $65,000 on this vehicle

that I've only had for a year and a half. >> $65,000.

>> What kind of vehicle is it?

>> 60 It's $65,000. Um, and it's a Audi Q8

2019. Um, I did buy it used, so it was a

bad decision. I know now, but I do not

know what to do. Um, on top of that, I do have student loan debt about $32,000

and about $2,000 in credit card debt.

So, I'm looking at around $100,000 that I may debt. So, my question is, I don't

know what to do with this vehicle. Um, the warranty company only wants to cover about $7,000 for a total repair that

cost 20,000. So, I would have to come out of pocket. Um, I don't know if I

should get rid of this vehicle. I don't know how much they would give me for the vehicle, the dealership. Um, >> they haven't given me that answer yet, but >> I wouldn't give it to the dealership.

How what's it worth if you don't repair it? What's it worth if you were to sell it? >> Um, well, now it doesn't have an engine, right? I would have to get a new engine.

So, I'm thinking around $30,000. I I

honestly don't know. And it's going to cost7,000 out of your pocket, you said, to get it fixed?

>> No, the warranty company is willing to give me$7,000.

>> Why are they only willing to cover a third of it?

>> I have no idea. >> Either they cover it or they don't. I'm confused why they go, "Well, it's kind of our fault. So, guess we'll cover seven grand." >> They Audi made a Audi made a repair. Um,

two weeks later, I get my car. Well, I get my car back after a few months. And then 2 weeks later after I gave my vehicle back, I had the same issues, but now my engine went out.

>> I would fight this to where they covered the full 20k.

>> That's personally what I would do is I probably would not sleep and I would just >> badger them and wear them down until they go, "All right, she's a squeaky wheel. Let's just cover this repair." >> I honestly we've been doing liquor company since November.

>> Speak directly in your phone, Danielle. We're having a hard time hearing you.

Sorry. Okay. >> So, they pretty much told me that um I've been dealing with this since November of 2023. So, as you can see, we're >> What are you driving now? And >> well, um Audi gave me a laner vehicle.

So, I've been driving.

>> Yes, I still have the laner.

>> Do you have any money saved?

>> I do not have any money saved. Um I only got >> Yes. >> What do you make a year?

>> Uh 65K.

Girlfriend. Girlfriend. Girlfriend.

>> Goodness. What were you thinking buying us? How much did this car cost you? 70 grand. >> Yeah. Around 75 grand.

>> Oh. >> Do you? >> Yeah. I >> Okay. >> What's the payment on this amount? >> I know. >> Um the payment is high. So, I'm currently It's about $1,600 a month plus

>> girlfriend, 1600.

>> I'm paying. >> Yes. >> What's the interest rate?

>> 12%.

Jade's stretching. She need She might need to take a walk. >> I need to take a walk. >> I totally I totally got screwed.

>> No, you didn't get screwed. You chose this. Let's be honest. You chose it because here's I just want you to know I what I want to I need to be able to sleep tonight. And so I need to understand that had you not had any engine problems, let's just pretend this last year was gravy and you had no engine problems. You're just paying $1,600 a month on a $75,000 vehicle when

you make $65,000. >> I was hoping you were going to say, "Yeah, I make $200,000." I go, "Okay, this tracks." >> Did you know it wasn't good? Like the the first two months were you like, "D

um honestly, at first I was renting out that vehicle, so I didn't have those payments." Um >> you were renting it out like on Turo or something? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you fell for the scheme that I'm going to make money off this and they'll pay the payment for me >> pretty much. And then, um, my other vehicle that I had, it ended up getting stolen from me. So, I ended up using the Audi and then, um, >> someone stole your vehicle.

>> Yes. >> And they never found it.

>> They never found it. No. >> Here's what I >> Did insurance cover it?

>> Yes, I got insurance and GAP, so they did cover it. And what did you do with the insurance money? >> Yes. >> They didn't give me anything cuz I had still owed on that vehicle.

>> Oh my. >> It's not your first rodeo making bad decisions. >> Yeah, I know. So, this vehicle I I don't

I don't know what to do. >> So, tell me again. You said it before, but I was writing down. So, uh warranty so far is only going to pay 7K. What are you on the hook for?

>> I would have to pay the difference. They say the total cost would be about 20K just to get a new engine. Okay, so you're on. Let's play out both scenarios.

Let's say you sold it as is and you get 30K. That's what you told us. That means you're in the whole 35K where you need to go out and find $35,000 whether it's your own money or getting a loan. You need to go into debt another 35K.

>> Yes. >> So on paper, option B is a better option. Mhm. >> They're both terrible, but that's a better option right now is that you get the engine repaired and then you're able to at least sell it.

>> So, that's what I would do if I was in your shoes. Whatever you need to do to get this engine repaired, >> do that and then sell the vehicle immediately. >> But not to the dealer. >> Not to the They're going to screw you on this deal cuz they already did.

>> Mhm. >> So, you'd have to sell a private party to get the most value out of it. And I want you to talk to I want you to get with somebody on this because cars I know you've been trying to make it your thing, but I don't think it's your thing. And so find the wisest person that you know. I don't know if that's dad or big brother or a cousin or your best friend's brother, whoever it is.

Get with that person when it's time to sell this vehicle and when it's time to get this vehicle fixed because I don't want them taking you for a ride. Um, figuratively when it comes to the price anymore on this, I just feel like you've been screwed.

>> No, it's just the amount of it's only one. >> Okay. And so right now that would mean with your $65,000 income, you would buy no more than about a $30,000 car >> when the time comes in cash.

>> I still think that's you don't need to worry about that until you're out of debt completely. You get the student loans knocked out, the credit cards knocked out, you have an emergency fund.

Let's get the income up, then let's save up and pay cash. So, this could be years down the road, but for now, we need to figure out a way to get that 13 grand.

That might be you go to a credit union if you your credit's not shot already and go, "Hey, I need 13 grand to cover the difference to get this engine fixed to then do you have the the car loan through someone." >> Um, it's through um through Wells Fargo.

Yes. >> You might want to go to them and say, "Listen, you got bad collateral on this thing cuz it's only worth 30 right now.

I owe you 65. I want to get this loan paid off. It's impossible right now unless you guys loan me this 13K on a personal loan to get this engine replaced. >> Yeah, my credit's good. Um, I don't have an issue with that. >> Okay, then let's do it. >> I made a bad decision. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, that's that's what I would do, Danielle. And it's going to hurt. And God bless the USA when we can be $100,000 in consumer debt, but we have great credit by Gosh, look at that,

Jade. I got an 850, but I don't have 800 bucks in the bank account, and I'm $100,000 in debt. That is the American way. I can't even respond. I'm shookth.

>> She hath been shookth.

What a way to end this hour of the Ramsay Show. Uh, [music] thank you to my co-host Jade Warshaw, all the folks in the both in the booth keeping the show flow, including Kelly Daniel filling in on the producing who's done a fantastic job. Better than James, I might add.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

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[music] >> Heat. Heat.

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Normal is broke. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life and your money. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay [music] Show. to get involved in the call scene today. You can call 888255225

to get your name [music] on the line. I'm here hosting. My name is Jade Warshaw. Next to me, George Camel.

George, are you ready to get it on and >> I've never been more ready. >> All right, let's do it. We've got Elaine from Indiana on the line. What's up, Elaine?

>> Yes. Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Yeah, how can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, so I am dealing with a little bit of financial infidelity um from my

husband >> and I'm just kind of wondering, you know, how we can move past that. The original incident, well, I mean, it's happened several times, but the kind of straw that broke the back was about a year ago. Um, I learned that he had borrowed about $14,000 from his

employer. Oh gosh. >> Oh, I guess they offered to pay off a debt that was trying to garnish his wages.

um and I found out >> um it was from he had started a business several years ago.

>> Um and so we're working on paying off a lot of the um consumer debt that was kind of left over from that. And so >> did you know about that debt before he got the loan to pay it off?

>> I did. And um we did get a you know a notice about the um they had about the lawsuit. It was a court date. He said he went to the court date, explained to them that the business had been closed and they kind of just said they were washing their hands of it and I didn't hear anything else about it. Um, >> so he made up that entire lie that they

>> um I think he went. I don't know that um

it was actually, you know, wiped clean.

Um I don't think you told me the full extent of it.

>> Well, clearly it wasn't cuz then they turned around and borrowed it from his employer, >> right? Well, somebody showed up that his work. um a deputy or something maybe and with the order to garnish his wages >> instead of doing the garnishment his employer paid it off and they took a lump sum out of each one of his checks.

Um and I didn't found out until about 9 months after his checks had been >> um >> so essentially he tried to avoid wage garnishment by having his employer do it for him. >> Mhm. >> Exactly. Until that was about a year ago.

I found out that and I actually, you know, we have kids and I I was done at that point. He's made a lot of stupid financial decision decisions in the past. And >> but before you go before you keep going forward, I want to keep pulling that first one. So he they were garnishing the wages out of his checks 14,000.

much cuz how did you not how did you not see that >> when >> um he got his own bank account separated

all of our finances. >> Okay. So finance is totally separate.

Okay. >> So, he he made a lot of moves to hide this from you.

>> Yeah. >> Like open another bank, then move the direct deposit to that new bank without your knowledge. And then have you guys had separate finances in the past?

>> No, they were together up until about

two two or three years ago. Um and ever since then, it's been Yeah.

>> So, you said this was not the first thing. Give us another example of something because this one's pretty extreme.

Um well, when he had his business open,

I saw um a bill in the mail for um you

know, one of his I guess suppliers or somebody and it was a lot more than you know I had anticipated and I asked him about it and he was like, "No, it's wrong. It's wrong. It's wrong." It said would say he'd take care of it. And then finally when I call, they're like, "No, like we've been trying to get a hold of you.

This amount is correct. This equipment was never returned. your bills, you know, $15,000 >> as opposed to what you thought would have been 15,000 maybe a couple thousand. Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yes. >> Have you asked him directly, why are you lying about all this? What's behind it?

>> He says that he knows that it stresses me out and so that he's just trying to take care of it himself without me having to know about it. >> So, take care of it means more lies, more hiding places.

>> Correct. And you've made it clear that's not how you're going to rebuild trust in this marriage, >> right? Yes. Um >> has he fully owned up to all this? Like where is he at today?

>> Well, that was a year ago. Um you know, when I said that I was done and I was tired of him lying and hiding things from me. Um and I actually moved in with

the kids with some family and we, you know, he cried and he'll never do it again. And um so we decided to work on things. So, we're living with family and collectively, you know, we have probably about $90,000 of debt from this previous, you know, company that he had started that didn't work out. Um, so we

said we'll tackle it together. Um, well,

a few weeks ago, I found out that somebody else had um tried to, you know,

sue him or whatever it was and he got another loan from this company.

>> Oh. >> This one was only $3,000.

>> Yep. and that um for the past three months he's been paying that off and it's paid off now and we were able to pay off the $14,000 one, you know, once I found out about it and I said, "Let's put everything towards it." And so we did that. >> So I thought everything was good after that. And then >> but you guys, you never you never really sat down and and counseledled your way through this. It was kind of just like, "Let's try it again. Let's try it again.

Let's try it again." And I'm not really >> very defensive. >> I you know, here's the thing. You're telling us this. I 100% believe what you're saying. Uh you said he, you know,

you left him and he cried and all this stuff. I don't know what the what the word is for that, but there's a word for the fact that he's making a mistake, but he's putting it on you by saying, "I don't want you to be stressed. I don't want you to be the one that's upset. This is too much for you." Like, there's a word for that. I don't know what it is, but I know I don't like it. Um, and

there's just part of this where Yeah.

You've outlined many instances and yet

he continues to do the same kind of crazy erratic behavior with his debt and with his money. Yeah, I would I would sit down with a counselor and in the

meantime, yeah, I would keep the money separate and I wouldn't do much more on this until you can sit down with somebody and say, "Here's what's going on. I don't know why my husband is continuing to do this behavior. Maybe I maybe I do have a hand in it. I'm willing to own if I do." Right?

Whether it's some sort of scarcity mind, the way he grew up, some some piece of him is feeling like he's got to control this and hide it from you. I don't know why, and I'm not saying that it's right, but I hope you guys can get to the bottom of it. And if it were me in the meantime, yeah, I would set some really clear boundaries, George.

with money because I got to keep our family safe. So, my question for you, Elaine, is do you earn any money?

>> I do. Um, and you know, combined we do

make a decent. I mean, we bring in about 135,000 >> a year. About 45 of that is from myself.

>> Okay. So, you're bringing in 45. So, what I would say is this. I'd say what would make me feel safe while we're in counseling is for us to put our money

into this account. and I will give you full transparency into what I'm doing with the money, but you you're taking

our money and you're putting it on debt and you're making payments and you're putting us in an unsafe space. Will you go to counseling with me? And if he says no, he won't and no, he won't combine the money, then now that's your that's your chance for you to take that to counseling and figure out what you need to do next cuz you can't control him.

>> Yeah. You you need consistent honesty from him over time and proof through actions. Those are the two things that will rebuild trust. And if he's unwilling to do that, that is him opting out of this relationship. So you need guys need to go through counseling and start to set those guardrails and boundaries and work towards healing.

>> [music]

[music] >> You're listening to the Ramsey Show. If you want to get involved, you can call in. It's a live show. The number is 888825-5225.

Christian will pick up and screen your call. Remember, this is a show about your life and your money. We're helping people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

That's what we're all about here. So, let's go to the phone lines. We've got Olivia in Ronoke, Virginia. What's going on, Olivia?

>> Hi. Uh,

yeah, so I called in just basically

because I feel like I'm experiencing a lot of disagreement in my marriage as far as finances go.

>> Tell us what happened. Um, well, we're both on the same page that we want to get out of debt. Like, we both agree that we want to get out of debt and we want to have more money in our bank account and more security.

Uh, I just I feel like I'm the one sort

of leading with that like gazelle intensity. And right now, I feel like

one of our roadblocks in front of us is my husband's car.

>> We both have a car. I have uh a more

reliable Americanmade car that it's up there in the miles, but it's, you know, one of those ones that's meant to last. And then he has a 20-year-old European car, and it's something that he got earlier this year after he wrecked his reliable car during a snowstorm. He paid in cash, which is great. We don't owe anything on our vehicles, but ever since he got that car, which I never I never wanted him to buy it.

>> It was a $3,000 car. Um, and I would say

considering how much we've spent, which I don't know exactly. He hasn't told me I can't access his receipts. He told me he does hasn't even been putting the receipts together with the rest of the cars and >> What does that mean? You can't access.

Do you guys not share a bank account? So you can't see. >> No, we do. We do. But like like I don't

have a place where all of this stuff is

just compiled like all of the receipts on what he has spent on car parts. He's a handy and he does a lot of the repairs himself, but he's probably done at least five or six repairs since he bought the car. >> Are these for fun repairs? Like is he like souping it up or is he needing to keep this thing alive?

>> Okay. So, you're also then then something also tells me you guys aren't keeping a budget because you if you were keeping a budget, you wouldn't need receipts. You would see the transactions coming through. Okay.

He went to Advanced Auto Parts, he went to Pet Boys, he you would see that come through. So, is that right? There's no budget >> as of right now. No.

And I've >> All the more reason to get into the budget. Okay, let's break this down.

>> No, I agree. I agree. >> You're like, he's spending way too much money on this $3,000 car. He's probably already spent more than $3,000 on the $3,000 car. Correct.

>> Maybe not. Maybe not quite. But we're in a position now where the car isn't

working to where he's comfortable driving it even to work. And so we're down to being a onecar family and he works 40 minutes away. >> Okay. And you want to sell this car?

>> I want to sell it. And we literally can't even afford. It's like $300 in parts that he needs right now and we can't even afford to buy that. >> Is it sellable?

If you sell it, what would you get? >> Or is it just scrap? >> If you sold it, >> if we sold it right now, we would get pretty much nothing. But he would if he fixed it up, he might be able to get a similar price as what he bought it for.

I'm I'm not 100%. >> So, you're saying right now he would get 500 bucks. But if I put 300 bucks in, I could get three grand for it. >> And you wouldn't get three grand.

You'd break even. You'd get the money back that you spent. Okay. So, we barely we would technically we wouldn't break even after everything he spent.

But >> if you have >> Why don't you guys do a little math on this? Go back and do a little do a little detective work. See what's been spent on this car and then you guys can make the best decision. Figure out what needs to be done.

Add factor that in and then figure this out. This is the smallest of the concerns in my mind. Uh this car, >> this is not what's holding you guys back right now. It's just the ankle biter that's in front of your face.

So, what's the real thing holding you back?

>> Yeah. So, it I would say his stubbornness um is what's really truly holding us back. I tried to discuss this car with him yesterday and it just turned into an argument. >> Let's say we never talk about the car again. What else are we doing? Cuz just not dealing with the car is not the thing that's going to get us out of debt. So, what are the steps you're taking?

So, I'm pretty much the only one doing anything to get out of debt. I have I mean, I don't know. He's He works.

>> What are you doing? What are you doing to get out of debt? Let's talk about you. >> Yeah. So, I am working

I I'm a full-time mom, so I work on the weekends to clean for somebody. And I've been setting aside that cash for a little while. and I don't even have my $1,000 yet because we keep running into things and I keep having to fork over my emergency fund because there's no money in our bank account. >> Let's halt right there. There's a couple of things that I hear that is really going to help. Number one, um there's a

lot of division here. There's I'm doing this, he's not doing that. This is my emergency fund. I don't have access to the receipts. Like, there's a lot of division that I hear. Um that lets me know there's something there's something missing here. So there's some marriage things going on where you guys are feeling separate from each other. You're not able to talk to him. He's not able to hear you and probably vice versa. So

I would want to do some detective work there and maybe get into some counseling to figure out what's what's the hold up there. Number two, I think the problem that you're running into financially with when you are setting aside money and it's getting eaten up, it's you don't you guys don't have a budget. So there's no way to know what's coming.

There's no way to plan for it. So before you get off the line, George and I are going to get you hooked up with every dollar because George, I think that's really the issue here. Um, at least financially the issue. >> Yeah. Well, tell us about your take-home pay. What is the take-home pay for the month with your cleaning on the weekends, him working full-time? What comes in?

>> If I worked four weekends a month doing

this one cleaning job that I'm doing, I would be bringing in uh let me just pull

my calculator up really quick. >> Mhm. I've never actually done this math.

So, this is exciting. >> This is great. This is part of it for everybody listening. Knowing these details, >> you got to know your numbers. >> You know your numbers. Then you know what you need to do in order to get where you want to get.

>> So, in just four days out of the month,

I would be bringing in $720.

>> Okay, great. >> What does he bring home every month?

>> That number, I don't even know. Okay, so like he has so many medical issues like with his back, You see you have access to the bank, right? What does the bank statement say? Was his income?

>> Yeah. When you see his check roll through, >> is it the same check every month?

>> No. The average I would say that we get

so like weekly is between $3 and $500 a

week. >> Okay. So maybe 2,000 like 2,000 a month.

>> Why is he making so little?

>> So part of it was they cut his hours back at work because business was slow and then they recently brought his hours back up. And when that happened, he also got uh basically I what I would call a

raise. They allowed him to start receiving commission because she's an incredible worker. He's a hard worker.

>> What does he do for work? >> He does. >> He's a chimmy sweep.

>> Um but then he threw out his back pretty much right when that happened. He has had back issues his whole life and he probably needs surgery one day, but he's he'll miss work because of stuff like that. Like this isn't just the first time it's happened where he tears his back out. It happens I would say [clears throat] once or twice a year where he misses a few days of work because of it and then there's like sickness and all those like normal life things that throw that >> things he needs a new job.

>> Yeah. Is it fair to say that he can't be a chimney sweep anymore? I mean when you said once or twice a year for a couple of days at first I was like that's I mean you get a cold and you're out once or twice a year, right? The people in the audience are like yeah Jade. So there's part of me that's like how big of a deal is this? like we're we're not losing weeks of work, you know, every

couple of months. It doesn't sound like it sounds like it's a day here, a day there.

>> I'm He needs to make more money. I'm with you on that. He needs to make more money. You need to make more money.

You both need to earn more money. Um I agree with you there. I think >> here's Can I just be honest with you what I think, Olivia? I think you're frustrated and rightfully so.

And sometimes when we get frustrated, it's easier to look at the other person and go, "Here's what they're not doing." But I think this is both of you. I think there's something that both of you I think there's more that both of you can be doing to make this better. Even something as simple as knowing the numbers, right? And in these types of situations when you are married, here's the thing.

You can't control what he does. You can control what you do.

But at the end of the day, Olivia can only control Olivia. So here's what you can do. You can get the every dollar budget. You can say, hey, let's do this together. And if he doesn't do it, you can still put the budget together. You can tell him, "Hey, for baby step one, I think we should save $1,000." And if he doesn't want to do it, you still save $1,000. Like Olivia can be on her game and lead by example until your husband starts to get on his game. This is the Ramsay Show.

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>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

Open phones at8825-55225.

You call up and we'll try to give you the right next step for your life and your money. Marcus has chosen to do so over in Denver. What's going on, Marcus?

>> Hey, how's it going, guys? Thanks for taking my call. >> Absolutely. What's going on?

>> Hey, so uh recently engaged. We are going through uh some premarital process, some workbooks, and uh some finance questions that I'm not sure entirely what to do. Uh I know the rule is uh when you get married, then you combine your finances. Uh I currently have about $100,000 saved up for a down payment on a home.

uh she has about 80,000 my fiance has about $80,000 in student loans and 10,000 on a car. So I know I could I could pay that off instantaneously uh when we get married and kind of push the house down the road. Uh she's not necessarily totally on board with that. I'm just not sure what to do with that when uh when we say the ideas.

>> Why do you think she's not on board with it?

>> Uh yeah. Yeah, it definitely is.

cleaning up a mess ahead of time any

other personal mess, you can't make perfect before you get married. Do you know what I mean? You don't feel the obligation to fix it completely yourself before you come to them. Like, we're imperfect people and we make mistakes.

And so, I think when you frame it in that way of why are you categorizing

money in a completely different light than all of the other aspects of our marriage where we're basically taking each other as we are and we're working together to go forward. I think when you put it into that framework, it kind of changes the way you think of it and you're like, "Oh, yeah. Okay, that makes more sense. You're taking me with my mistakes.

You're taking me with my flaws. And we're working together to improve ourselves in our marriage >> and accepting, you know, that blessing of, wow, this person worked really hard to save this money. And they're willing to use that to give me a clean slate. I mean, not to get theological, but that's a beautiful picture of the gospel.

Beautiful. We came in with all the debt and he's got an unlimited savings account. He's like, I got you. And it's like, uh, I can't accept this.

I need to [laughter] work for it. Like, there's a piece of that that exists.

>> That's right. >> So, there's also that piece that she's feeling of he works so hard for this.

But the truth is, if you looked at a cons list of okay, what she's coming to this marriage with 100 grand. You look at the pros list, >> her, >> you know what I mean? Like that outweighs [snorts] any level of debt. And you guys working together, >> this is going to be like a blip in your lifetime where you look back and like, oh, remember we cleaned up that debt real quick and then we started building wealth together?

And yeah, it delayed our our home buying by, you know, two years. >> Who cares? >> And big whoop. And so I I think this is harder for her to grapple than you because it sounds like you are like, "Yeah, I'm willing to go ahead and pay off the debt and we'll restart the down payment process." >> And then, you know, for her, I mean, and I hope she does listen to this call.

The the flip side of it, which is the pretty obvious, is it's way better to have someone who says, "Oh, yeah, it's just money. like I'm happy to pay this off and start, you know, my money is your money and your debt's my debt and I'm happy to be one with you on this and well, we're paying it off together with the money that we have once we get married. Um, that's a lot better than having a jerk that's like, "No, you got to pay off your debt. I'm not marrying you until you pay that debt." You know what I'm saying?

And if you were like that, she wouldn't accept that either. So, it's like, if you have to choose between A and B, I'm choosing A with flying colors.

>> All right. Well, you know how us guys roll. We uh we're very direct and to the point, so I'll try to frame it a little bit more differently. So, >> have her watch this call. Also, I'm wondering what will your household income be once you guys get married?

>> Uh once we get married, uh a year's time, I'll uh I'll gross 220 and she'll be about 55 to 60.

>> Ding ding ding, my friend. So, think about this mathematically. If you want to help her out, just go to a piece of paper, napkin math, and go, "All right, we're going to pay your debt down. Leaves us with 10 grand.

We still need a little emergency fund, maybe." Okay, we make 275 at that point. How quickly can we save up 100 grand? Probably eight or nine months. >> Yeah, pretty quick.

>> And so I think showing her how little of a problem this really is, it's not derailing your home ownership dreams for a decade. >> Nope. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll try to frame it differently. >> Yeah.

Have you guys gone through Financial Peace University as part of your premarital? >> Uh, we haven't. We're we're doing a couple workbooks. Uh we haven't done FPU yet.

>> If I gifted it to you guys, would you go through it? >> Uh I would uh pay for it because I appreciate your guys' services. >> Oh, that's so kind. Well, I I can't let you do that today.

But you know what you can do? You can pay it forward. You can get it for someone else, but I'm going to gift that to you today, Marcus, cuz I'm I'm a Marcus fan. And I think Financial Peace University is a huge part of premarital counseling.

It doesn't encompass everything with premarital counseling. Obviously, there's a lot of other pieces, but as far as finances go, I cannot think of a better way to get on the same page, learn that language by going through all nine lessons together. Cuz me trying to convince someone else about the thing I'm excited about. I'm like, Jade, you got this guy Dave, he's like, "Sell the car." And you're like, "What is turn what happened?" >> I know.

>> So, that's a very different vibe. And that's why I encourage couples, whether it's premarital, post, whatever, go through Financial Peace University, if you're trying to get someone on board, >> and it's it's the most cost-effective way to make your marriage better and build wealth together. >> I agree. I concur. We nailed it. All right. Alex is in Chicago up next.

What's going on, Alex?

>> Hi, guys. Can you hear me?

>> Yeah, loud and clear. Okay. So, um yeah,

my my main question is um I'm debating

whether I can leave my job in December

or if I should sign up for another like

little group of second shifts for um

kind of getting a head start on my emergency fund. >> Okay. So, there's no debt. You're working on an emergency fund. Is that what I understand?

>> Okay. So, um, starting in November, I

started paying down about $82,000 of

debt. I, um, it was it was 72. By the

time I started the Ramsey plan, I had a total of 82. Okay.

>> And now I have 19.4.

>> Nice. >> And at the end of the year, I should have about 5.5. Okay. And if I quit my

job in December, my debt payoff will be

the same um in February.

>> Okay. >> Um I'm thinking about keeping it for

um like a head start on my emergency fund, but I'm also like completely exhausted and hoping kind of like less.

>> Are you saying just quitting your second job? Are you keeping your full-time job?

>> Yeah, so right now I work about 52 hours a week. I work 40 and then I work like

an extra four hours a week and this is

three times a month for my So I work about 44 hours um and then I work an extra eight. >> Is it the work or the type of work? Is it the Is it the fact that you have an extra job or is it the nature of the second job? It's more the nature of the second job because um I'm a therapist in an acute

care setting. Um and it's like a very physical job and I'm like >> what do you make from it? >> Super tired. >> What do you make from it? >> Um yeah, so my base pay at my primary

job is 4.3K and I do week I work weekends on my

primary job. So, I have 5K with my

weekend pay and then with my second job I do um 5.6 and then I do work overtime

at my primary job like 5.9. >> Wait, your second job is bringing in more than your full-time job.

>> No, I'm just explaining um that I

actually like that's my monthly income incrementally as I add on more hours.

Oh, so you're making an extra 600 bucks from the side job.

>> Got you. >> Um, it's about 250 net per shift and I

work about eight shifts every 3 months.

>> So, um, and go ahead. I I'm just trying

to understand just give us really clear what you bring in from the side job every month because what I'm getting at what I'm getting at here is if you're telling me it's the nature of the job that's the problem and it's giving you 1,200 extra bucks a month or 600 whatever that is I'm pretty sure you could probably >> 750 >> perfect I think that you find another job and replace that income cuz a lot of times the burnout is not on the the hours itself it's the job that you're doing during those hours.

>> Yeah, if you did something that was more enjoyable, even less, you'd be okay. But I wouldn't just slow down just yet. You're so close. Keep the gazelle intensity up until you're through baby step three. But I do think we need a shift in the meantime. Just shift the plan a little bit. This is the Ramsey Show.

[music]

>> [music]

[music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, 2 Corinthians 12:9. My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on me. In a

left turn, JK Rowling once said, "Anything's possible if you've got enough nerve." >> I like that level of persistence.

>> George, you got some nerve. >> That's me getting discounts. That's my version of that. I've got enough nerve to ask for the discount. >> Listen, I've watched you in these breaks try to get these discounts on these Seinfeld tickets. >> That's right. I If anyone's got the hookup, I refuse. Jade's like, "George, just go. Just pay the pay the stub." I'm like, "I'm not going to let the scalpers win. Not on my watch.

>> I'm going to get these tickets at face value if it's the last thing I do." >> Waving the white flag. >> That's my That's my latest conundrum. If you're wondering what's happening in the world of George, it's a good deal.

>> Yeah. All right, that's fun. Let's go to Joan in Jacksonville, Florida. What's going on, Joan? Make us happy. How can we help? >> Well, hi. Thank you for taking my call.

I have a situation where I have a couple

of options, but I really don't know what to do. I'm 86 years old.

I have only social security.

I own my own home. I own the car, my

car. >> Good. >> But I have about almost $30,000

credit card debt. >> Oh my goodness.

>> I know.

I tr have making minimum payments, but

I've only left with maybe

$100, $200 a month to eat, put gas in

the car. Now, I do have um help

from a daughter and an ex-husband

that feeds me, you know, as I need it. if I

make a suggestion, but I it's

embarrassing that I don't want to.

>> I could I I think about selling the car.

It's 17 years old. I won't buy another one, but I'm >> pretty much going to be grounded.

>> What's the car worth? >> Which um Well, it's a crown victorious.

>> I don't think that's going to make a dent in your credit card debt. I'd rather you keep the car to get around.

>> Uh yeah, true. and or sell the house.

That's what I want to know. >> Oh boy. >> And and get a get an apartment.

>> Well, the problem is right now you have a fixed expense with this paid for house, >> right? >> So, if you sold it to pay off your credit card debt, that leaves you with an expense that's ongoing and increasing. And with your social security, I don't know that you're going to be able to afford the payment of the rent. >> How much do you get every month?

Um 111.98.

>> Okay. >> Almost a,000.

>> So about 1,200 bucks a month.

>> Yeah. >> And what are your monthly expenses right now?

>> You're saying you have 100 bucks left over. So you need about 1,100 bucks to live or thousand?

>> No. No. I the reason I'm in credit card

debt is I always need about $200 more

and so I use the credit card and then I'll start paying the minimum payments and then the interest starts hitting on them and they bill build bills. Now the

last two or three months I've I had like

almost $3,000 in um car repair and some

other $700 to the dentist. Yeah.

>> And so >> you just have no cushion. You have no cushion to pay for anything that comes up beyond your 1,100 bucks a month,

right? >> And unless I beg it from either your daughter or an ex.

>> I'm sorry. >> Goodness. I'm so sorry, >> John. This is not a fun place to be.

What is your house worth?

>> My health? >> Your house? What's it worth?

Well, what do you mean by that?

>> If you sold it today, what could you get for it?

>> Oh, the house. Okay. Oh, the house is

probably worth 195 to maybe 250.

>> Okay, that's a big >> But on e on either side, the houses

have built [clears throat] around me and they're worth 600 and 500,000.

>> Why is yours so low?

Yeah.

>> No updates. >> Is it in rough shape?

>> No, mine is just old. When I came here

21 years ago, >> Oh, they built a bunch of new houses around you. >> Yeah, they built everybody around me and I don't have an HOA and everybody else.

>> Are you at the point where you could move in with your daughter?

>> Well, I could, but I'm not too sure about

that. you know, personalities. I mean, it's kind of it would be um I I have um

some health problems, but they're under control. >> Well, the problem is, let's say if I snapped my fingers and got you out of credit card debt, you're going to be back in $30,000 of credit card debt because you're using the credit cards to to float your life and expenses.

>> Well, I promised her that from now on, I would ask her after if I had to charge

something. But you're still behind 200 bucks a month, which you're using credit cards for. You told us. >> So, you've got your That's not going to change anytime soon. >> You've got your daughter, and do you have other kids or is it just her?

>> Um, yes, but that wouldn't be possible.

>> Okay. So, your daughter has said, "Mom, let me know before you charge this credit card. Tell me, and I'm going to try to help you out, basically." Right.

>> Yes. So, like you said, it's embarrassing and it's tough, but your options are you either reach out to your daughter and you say, "Hey, you told me that this lifeline is here, and the the truth is I

need $200 every month in order to be able to live and not spend any more on this credit card. That $200 will help me make my minimum payments and not go over." If you said that to her, is she

on board and to say, "Okay, I'm going to help you in that way." And it and then because the other option is we might have to look at this house, which doesn't really make sense because of the

cost of living today. Like there's not really an option. >> I know. >> You know, >> that's what Yeah, that's one thing that's made it gone up more.

>> Well, um Okay.

>> Your expenses are 1,400 bucks and you're bringing in 1,200. That's the truth at the end of the day, right? >> Because you're going 200 bucks into debt on the credit cards.

>> Yes. >> So, we need to find a way to either lower our expenses somehow or increase our income. I don't know. We're going to find a way to increase income.

>> I wrote down every penny I've spent this

past month.

>> Mhm. >> And >> could you downgrade in house? Is you know, if you sold it for 250, could you go buy a place for 200?

I'm not sure in Florida right now. I mean, >> or even an apartment by the clo.

>> No, it's a house. >> I'm saying could you downgrade to an apartment?

>> Oh, well, I could go. Yeah. I mean, I I

could, but I'm 86 years old. I mean,

>> I know, but we also didn't set ourselves up for a bright future in retirement.

>> No. >> So, this is part of it is we got to deal with the ramifications. I was a single mother since I was 19 years old with no

no child support and I worked until I

was almost 80.

>> What were you doing for work? >> I mean I was a lot maybe I better not say I I

worked at a pharmacy technician.

>> Okay. Is there something you could do to make a little bit of extra money right now? Are you able to get around and do that?

>> Oh yeah, I get around. I mean,

um, I >> I think we might need to find a little part-time job to to clean up this debt and increase our income >> if you're able-bodied. It's not fun, but this might be your only option other than selling the house and downgrading to an apartment that you pay cash for, which allows you to clean up the credit card debt, lowering your monthly expenses. >> Right. Well, I have leukemia. I've had

it for 21 years. I don't really have a I

really don't have a high uh energy level

and I have a dog and the dog I was going

to tell you the expenses the dog cost.

The dog was the biggest expense.

>> I bet I know I got two little French bulldogs and they're the biggest line item in my budget right now. So Joan, I'm so sorry. >> It was 18 $181 for the dog

>> every month.

>> No, just this month.

>> Just this month. Oh, Joan, I'm so sorry.

You have been through it. I would I would definitely look at downgrading a house and going to an apartment you pay cash for, getting rid of the credit card debt. If you need to rehome the dog, I'd rather you eat before the dog. So, that's the hard [music] truth. I hope it helps and I hope your your daughter or ex-husband can help. That puts this hour of the Ramsay Show in the books. Thank you to Jade [music] Warshaw, all the folks in the booth, and you, America.

We'll be back before you know it.

Heat.

Heat.

[music]

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## 123. Own Your Choices, Starting Now | April 24, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:35:08 |

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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the [music] Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey show.

I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Delony. We are taking calls from you all hour long.

We're headed out to Seattle, Washington, [music] where we have Shelby on the line. Hey Shelby, what's going on? How can we help today? >> Hi.

Um yes, I'm just calling and wondering if the way my [music] fiance is splitting the finances with us with me, um is the right way? >> [laughter] >> Okay. >> I can already tell this is going to be a fun call, Shelby.

>> Have you listened to our show before?

>> Yes, I have and I actually listen to you guys always and on like a Jade I I

follow you guys religiously, so yes.

>> Okay, so whatever answer we give you, same team, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. All right, good. All right, let it rip. >> Uh so, long story short, I'm my fiance

are blended family.

Um we do own a home together.

Um I have three kids, he has one. I my

ex who passed away uh years ago left me in a financial situation where I did have to file bankruptcy before I got to my fiance. I then built myself back up, got myself, you know, a very six-figure paying job,

you know, moved throughout. And now we

have one joint checking, but the mortgage is the only thing that comes out of that, and then everything else Venmo is.

>> Interesting. Okay, your phone's breaking up a bit. Make sure you're somewhere where your phone's not breaking up. >> You said you Venmo each other?

>> Yes. >> All all hot relationships stay hot through Venmo. >> [laughter] >> So, here's There's some things going on here that might be outside of your belief system,

but I'm just going to say it because I try to give the advice that I would do in my own life and that I think is something that would really help you. Um so, you've got the one account, all the money goes into it because both of you are paying for the mortgage. And then who pays for Who pays for the other stuff?

>> Well, so the one only the mortgage pay money goes into that one account.

>> Right, but that comes a little bit from both of you, right? >> Yes, it does. And then >> it half and half or >> Yep, it's half and half. >> Okay. And then and then tell me how the rest of the bills and and kids stuff and how that's divided up. >> So, it things like internet, power,

garbage are half and half. Um groceries,

we've we go back and forth on. Well, you

have two more kids than I do, so maybe you should pay for a little bit more.

And I'm like, well, you knew how many kids I had coming into this >> think it should be? How do you think it should be? >> I think we should I think we should each have our own accounts for spending and fun and leisure, and then we should combine the rest of our finances and majority of our finances and pay all the bills from one account. Um he is the

father figure in my children's life because their father is no longer around. >> How long has he been around? How long have you guys been in this in this relationship together? >> Three years. >> Okay. And when's the wedding?

>> That's a good question. Don't He wants to wait until we've been engaged for 2 years before we get married.

>> Why? >> Oh, wow. >> I don't know. >> Is it Are you Is Is this like level two in his test?

>> I I feel like it. I mean, and I've watched your show down many times before and I'm just like, you proposed. Why?

And he's like, well, I just I want to make sure >> That you're the one? >> change. Yeah, and that's what I said. I was like, >> That you don't change? Here's the 100% guarantee. Both of you will change a million. My wife's on version like 41 of the idiot 24-year-old she married. Thank God, right? I'm glad I changed.

>> doesn't mean and now I'm considering you for marriage. That's [laughter] not what the ring means. The ring is we're going to get married. I have decided you are the one I'm going to marry.

>> Yeah. The engagement is just simply a planning period to have the party.

That's really all [laughter] it is.

>> All right, so >> I agree. >> Let me ask you this. How much of cuz I want to honor this.

How much of your concern about

Um, I need to have my own on the side

here. How much of that stems from the absolute mess you were left when your first husband passed away? >> Um, in the beginning I was terrified to join any type of finances with him because my late husband did significantly put me in a bind where I like could barely feed my kids. But now that I've gotten to know this man and I see him and he runs his own business.

Um, you know, I see the dedication and work that he puts in every day and that I I'm like, okay, yes, I

am now comfortable with this. However, I would still like my own account for like getting my hair done or my nails, you know. >> I I I'll still tell you I I think the the the nerd work, the research data on this confirms it. Um, what what we've been teaching for more than three decades.

All of it goes into the same boat.

>> Mhm. >> And together you'll have the conversation about hair and nails and haircuts and shampoo, like all of that stuff. I have to tell you like just as a husband of a wife of almost a quarter century.

You're worth more than you're getting right now. >> Yeah. >> You're worth more than than than being in a in a in trial period number two.

You're worth more than No no no marriage I've ever heard of.

I'm sure they exist and I I I I get a

I get a sample size of the ones who are in crisis, right? I've never heard of a successful marriage where they're Venmoing and bickering over who you like

it colder so you have to pay more of the electric bill. You know who does that?

19-year-old roommates who share an apartment. >> Yeah. >> Not people who are ride or die till death do us part.

Like making a life together that they both want to be awesome.

>> And I think that's part of the I I think exactly what John said is part of the problem. There is a very shallow commitment here.

And because of that, I think you're you're experiencing that. It's like I'm only going to go so far in and you have your reservations as well that you're only going to go so far in. And I actually think it's a wonderful thing that you're not combining money right now um because you're not married and this thing even if you were the most solid engaged couple ever, I would still say, "Hey, right now you don't need to have your money combined cuz the deal is not done." Um but I don't hear like a super

solid engaged couple um and so the the

reasoning still applies. Now is not the stage to combine money. I understand that you guys are all living in the same household and probably while you're in that scenario, yeah, having a fund where you both kick in your parts for the rent or for the mortgage, that probably makes sense for um how you're [clears throat] choosing to live at this moment, but I wouldn't I wouldn't combine money until you are married and I would push for marriage. >> Yeah. >> Because well, let me let me caveat that.

I would not push for marriage if you don't think this is the guy, but if you're like, "This is my guy. I believe in him. I trust him. I trust that we're going to grow together and change together and we're going to be able to get on the same page. Yes, get married.

But, if you're having reservations, and I want to say this because you said I got burned before, the calls that John and I get where people have been burned before, there were red flags.

There were red flags, and there were little behaviors that was like, "Uh, that doesn't feel right." And there was just this um more and more of a of a separation that occurred. And so, I want to tell you, if you can create a relationship that from the beginning, there is transparency. Everybody's involved. Everybody We may not think about things exactly the same or have exactly the same values, but we're both very, very interested.

It's our priority to show up for one each other for one another. So, if he values something, I have to show up and show, "Hey, I care about it, too, just because you care about it." And vice versa. And if you don't sense that or feel that or see proof of life in that area, you [music] need to consider that deeply because, John, these are the things Red flags are red for a reason.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> Alrighty, back to the phone lines where we have Jonathan who's in Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Hey Jonathan, how are you doing today?

>> Hey Jade, hey Jonathan. Thanks for the call, I appreciate it. >> You bet. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so my question today is just how do my wife and I buy a house with a mortgage payment being around 25% of your take home pay and the situation that we're in. I'll give you like a little little quick details to see if that's cool with you. >> Yeah. The more the merrier.

>> Um, so Awesome, awesome. So, we've been renting for 7 years. We're debt free. Um, we got debt free last last May actually.

Um, and then um, we do have our three consecutive expenses. Uh, so we follow y'all's plan and the dilemma is Um, I get paid 46,280 a year.

year I brought in like 55 with overtime.

My wife makes 8,000 a year just because she's a stay home mom and she has like a side gig with [clears throat] the church cuz you know, she like leads worship and stuff. >> Uh-huh. >> So, combined like 55 just base salary. I

could get more with overtime, but the like the dilemma is I'm really like a job where I like it's kind of a dream job. So, it's kind of like I could leave and go find something making more, but >> You like it. >> to. I like it.

And so, and my wife, I don't want her to lose her job cuz again, we like it. And so, I'm just we don't know what to do. But we we want to own a home, and I just feel like we're stuck.

That we could have it all, all at the same time, just how we wanted it.

And every one of us runs up against that at some point.

>> That's true. Very true. >> to have these great values. I want to follow my faith convictions. I want to follow my educational convictions. I want to follow my my the follow, quote unquote, my passion working at a place that I believe in, that I like, but only pays me this much money. And it runs up against this awful thing called math.

>> Yes, exactly. That's where we are. Yeah.

>> And so, you you're you're going to have to ask yourselves, what do we value more? Homeownership or me working at a place where I feel valued? Um I don't

they're paying me as good as they can. I trust that's that's happening. Um I love my work environment. Or a value of my wife stays at home and takes care of our kids cuz we that's a value for us. Um and if the if those two values are immovable, then that means we're going to be renters because those two values are that important to us.

Or if we want if we value homeownership above all things, then I'm going to work a job that it may not be my favorite work environment or I may not love, but it's going to provide this kind of life for us. Or my wife is going to in 1 year when the kids are old enough to go to school, we're going she's going to go full work full time and you get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, no, I'm I'm definitely following you, for sure. >> And I hate it for you, man. All of us face it. Um I hate it for you.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, I said the dilemma, yeah. What you said. >> It's a um it's something to think about.

And I like what John said, just because you make a choice now, it doesn't mean it has to stay that way forever. Because to his point, when you say yes to one thing, you you're you're automatically it's it's an opportunity cost.

But, yeah, there's a there's a future that maybe that doesn't work for you guys anymore. And then you look up and you go, you know what? I I am ready to move on into a different career or see how I can expand. And she might think, you know what? I've been staying at home for x amount of years, I'm ready to get out there. So, there's no permanence in

any of these decisions. And home ownership is always there waiting for you. It's not If you say to me, Jade, I really want to buy a house, I'm not going to say to you, great, that's impossible. I'm going to say, okay, with the choices that you've determined, your timeline is just a lot further out than other people's.

And you're going to have to be very intentional about getting there. And just know, hey, what might have taken somebody else three or four years could take you a decade. And if you're fine with I don't know how old are you?

>> Uh so, I'm 30. My wife is 27.

>> O- Okay. So, if you think, hey, we're not buying our first house till we're in our 40s, that's your choice to make. And

that's your road if you want to walk it.

I you know, folks call in here all the time, and they love their careers, and there's not a a strong upside financially. And I just go, okay, you're going to be in that Camry life. You're going to be that used Camry life. And that's okay. If that's what you love, and you get most of your joy out of the work that you do.

>> Here Here's the thing I want to make sure you hold, though, okay? Um >> Yeah. >> I don't want you to feel like this world that you and your wife live in is happening to you.

I want y'all to And it might be you call and get a babysitter, and y'all go out for um half a half morning, right?

I want y'all to take full ownership of the choices you're making. Cuz if you if you walk through life feeling like this is happening to us, then chances are your wife is going to end up in the guilt factory. She can't do anything right.

And you're going to feel like uh you're going to live in the failure factory.

I don't I don't make enough.

>> in the failure Yeah. >> Uh that's right. I I'm not I'm not providing enough for fill in the blank.

And the problem is that finish line of the guilt factory and the failure factory, it just it just moves on you.

It just keeps moving and moving until you opt out of both of those factories and you just say, "Hey, we're we're we're choosing this. It's great. We're choosing stay at home. We're choosing a job where I can clock out and come be present at home.

And that means we're choosing this financial situation. And that means we're choosing to rent for a while." But the more you feel like a victim to your circumstance, the more you both are going to end up in pathological responses.

>> That makes sense. That makes sense. So, we choose it. If we choose it, find a way to enjoy it and and and be happy about it. >> And and if you make if you make coming together once every 6 months, once a year, "Hey, what life do we want to choose this time? We've never been married and had a 3-year-old and you're pregnant again. We've never been married and had a 4-year-old. We've never been married and had a kinder Like your marriage changes every year." And so, to Jay's point, this particular

year, what do we want to choose? Well, actually, I want to choose to go back to work. All right, well, let's navigate that. And that's going to come with guilt and what And let's choose to buy a house.

Okay, then what must be true for us to do that? But it's you owning this thing, not you responding to this thing.

>> That's so good. And that's a great question, and I actually think the way that you explained that, John, is really

the crux mindset that you have to have around everything that we teach. Because all All it is a um all of it is I'm giving up something here to get something I want over here. >> Yes. >> Right?

And so even something as simple as a budget when we say hey, make a budget because when you make a budget you have control over it. You're choosing and saying this is how I'm going to spend my money. It's not oh, somebody's making me spend my money on groceries and my car note and no, I chose this. I chose I said I'm going to put this much of a line item towards entertainment.

I'm going to put this much of a line, right? And already you feel way better about the things that maybe you're going to say no to or maybe that you're not going to be able to do in this season because you made the choice of making the budget. Same thing with getting out of debt.

Nope, the IRS didn't do it to me, student loans didn't do it to me. I chose that I would like to be free. I would like to get out of debt. Therefore, now I can feel really good about and just kind of almost set my expectations to know hey, this is the season where it feels like a grind.

>> Cuz I'm choosing. >> I chose it. >> I chose it. I chose to walk into the gym this morning or not.

I chose to stay up I I'll tell you I chose to stay up way, way too late last night. And [laughter] I I then made a choice to cost myself this morning. >> That's right. >> Right?

>> We've all done it. >> They told me I had to go to college. Who? Well, they did.

Like and it's a combo of parents and culture and teachers and what, right?

And they didn't tell me how bad this was

going to be after college. And they at some point I had to say you're right, but I signed my name on that paper. >> to believe it. >> I got to pay that back, right? I signed the paper, I'm going to pay that back.

And and that means I'm going to choose to have a pretty crummy car for a while.

>> Right. >> I'm going to choose to move into a dorm for a while. I'm going to choose to sleep on air mattress for a while. I'm going to make these choices.

And man, that's the shift out of Here's the thing, I spent my whole career sitting with people, assault victims, people who have loved ones pass away, people who made choices to, you know, sell or use drugs. We always end on one question.

What are you going to do now? And that's a choice. Like it has happened, it did, and it's for real. What are you going to do now? And I think that's the most empowering question somebody can ask somebody else. >> I think so, too, because then you know, hey, no matter where things end up, I I didn't somebody didn't put me there. I I put There's more peace in knowing.

>> the driver's seat of my life. >> Yes. That's one of the reasons I almost will never ever ever You'll never hear me suggest bankruptcy on this show because you lose control. The government steps in and now they're telling you to sell this and do that. Control, guys. It is a wonderful feeling. Even if things aren't going specifically your way, to be able to say, I chose this, it's everything.

>> [music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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>> [music]

>> Kyle is in Boston, Massachusetts. Hey Kyle, how can we help today?

>> Hey, good. How are you? Thanks for Thanks for taking my call today. >> Yeah, you bet. >> I had a question around student loans.

So, I'll I'll give a quick background before I ask my question, but I went to a private college, got a small scholarship, but still took on some debt, sitting at around 25,000 in student loans debt. That's the only debt I have. I'm a very diligent spender, very good with my money.

If I invest in the market, standard return puts it above my interest rate.

>> Mhm. >> It I have a hard time struggling with should I pay off my student loan debt or should I take that minimum payment or the money and invest it into the market instead?

>> Dude, I love talking to smart guys.

>> [laughter] >> Like for real, like you're thoughtful, you thought this through, and that's awesome. >> Yes, definitely.

>> Yeah, I mean, there's there's a mathematical side of that that you can play out. I'm more on the emotional side of it, you know, over here we believe that the borrower is slave to the lender, and you do feel that that's a that's a soul tax that you pay. It's a sleep tax that you pay. It's a a relational tax that you pay, and it's clearly bothering you because you're also calling into a show about the student loan debt.

You're not thinking, "I'm just going to go over here and invest and invest." You're thinking about it in relation to the student loan debt.

Um I would challenge you that there's a world where you get to do both. You just need to do one first and the other one second. And I don't think in the long

run you're going to go back and go, "Man, if only I had invested that money instead of paying off my student loan." I think you're going to go, "Let me just clear out this student loan. It's a private student loan. Uh it's a private loan, right?" >> Yes. Uh no, no, no. It's it's a federal loan. It's a federal loan. >> Oh, I thought you said private. Okay, so it's federal loan. Um how quickly could you do it? Cuz something tells me that you make a fine income.

>> Yeah. So, honestly, the reason I'm calling today is I hit the breaking point where my brokerage account meets the debt. I could do it today. >> I bet. >> Done. Do it right now. Right now.

Hey, hey. >> Yeah. >> Do He- He- Here's a Here's a a a bet I'll make you, okay?

Cancel the debt today.

Live debt-free for two pay periods, two months.

If you hate not owing anybody any money,

go down to the local credit union, take a $25,000 loan, and put it back in the market. >> Money-back guarantee.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, I mean, I Just call call our bluff. Two months.

>> Yeah, and and and Don, that's part of the reason I'm calling, right? I just don't think I'd do that. Like, I I I mean, I make fine money. It would I I could probably get that back in another year, maybe two. I I I'm I've only been out of school for uh a couple years now, so >> But do you see the point he's making?

That's the one I'm facing. >> It's not a dilemma. >> There's no dilemma. You have never been 100% in the driver's

seat of your own life.

You were at your parents' house. >> Financially, no. >> You went to a college where they told you what to do and when to do it. You got a job and they're telling you what to do every day. And you got a bank telling you, "I don't care if you're sick. I don't care if COVID's here. You

owe me that money." You've never sat in the car of your life

completely autonomously, with agency as

the nerds say.

And I'm telling you on the other side of where you are, bro, it's pretty sweet.

>> That's such a good point. Anything that's in your life, you're saying yes to. Right? So, you should look at the things in your life intentionally and say, "Do I want to say yes to that? Do I want to say yes to $25,000 of debt now that I

know kind of what it is and what it costs me?" And John made such a great point. Obviously, the answer is no. You don't want to say yes to that. Because if we said, "Hey, why don't you go and take out $25,000 of debt?" You and you don't have any, you'd say, "No, I don't I don't want to do that." >> Right?

That's stupid. >> you you ended up with this debt, probably like all of us did. You weren't thinking straight, you know, you didn't understand that that's what you were choosing, right? You got it.

But now that you have the choice, exercise that and say, "I don't You know, I don't really want that in my life." And I love what John said. If you pay it off, you decide, "Ah, you know what? I actually miss it." >> I miss it. >> I miss it.

I need it back. >> I love having to look every third night cuz you're a guy who looks. I look at my balance to see what the interest is and how much it's grown. >> Just to make sure it's still there.

>> miss it. Yeah, dude.

>> And so, I'm 23 years old.

>> Homie, bro, wait a minute now. You could be free before you're 25.

>> Yeah. >> 25, freedom, homie.

>> be free today. He said he has the money today. >> Before you're Yeah. >> What's the payment on the student loans?

What's the payment on them?

>> So my minimum payment is $207 and that

would rope me in for I think another seven or eight years maybe at this point. Um >> Have you Have you done the math?

Have you done the math [clears throat] on just if you said, "You know what today I'm going to I'm going to bite the bullet. I'm going to take this 25,000.

I'm going to go ahead and pay it off and then starting you know next month cuz I have you have more cash laying around I just know it. Starting next month I'm going to invest 15% plus the 207 and I'm

going to do that from age 24 to age 64."

Have you just done that math?

>> So and I have and I've done the math on what if I was in my mind I have x amount

that I'm putting towards the market and student loans combined, right? So if I just put if I take that minimum payment out and take that number that I have in mind and just put it towards the market it it's it there is a little bit of a higher

number in keeping the student loan around because that interest rate is below standard return on the market.

>> I know but you're you're >> that's the question is >> My point is let me tell you my point. My point is if you pay this off today, yes you're you're breaking down your brokerage by 25,000 but you're also becoming 25,000 dollars free. You become a completely free individual and then if you do what I said, you're The point is you're going to have a bazillion dollars. >> [laughter] >> Maybe if you kept the student loan you'd have a bazillion and one but do you see do you see what I'm saying?

There's going to be something that you pay. It's everything is an exchange. We're we've been into this heavily today. Everything is an exchange.

There's always a sacrifice to win and winning isn't just in dollars and cents.

It's in peace. It's in deciding who you want to be. John and I are people were like, "Hey, we don't borrow money. We just don't like having that sense of attachment."

>> want another grown man tell me what I have to do. I have enough of that already. They tell me what what what when to be at work. They tell me how fast I can drive. I don't like it. So, I don't want to give anybody else an opportunity to tell me what to do with my life. >> And it just sets the it's it's a

it's a test for how we treat other things in our life. >> And hey, since you're a guy who runs data, can I challenge you with yet another calculation?

>> Sure. >> Are you dating anybody?

>> I am. >> Seriously?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um I just finished a 2-year project studying marriage. Okay?

>> Okay. >> I would recommend, and this is going to sound crazy to you in the short term.

Maybe don't even put that $200

into the market right away.

But go take this date of yours, and

y'all go have fun.

Go laugh. Go have joy.

>> Yeah. >> Right? You you're debt-free at 23. You make a great salary. You're on your path to be a multi multi multi-millionaire.

And the ROI on a married couple who's

locked in with their money is the highest ROI. Two people who get

to combine time, energy, and financial resources over a long period of time, their net worth outpaces anybody.

>> Right. >> So, if you want to do the ultimate ROI, get married and do marriage really really well.

>> Yeah. Yeah, and that's the plan. I mean, I guess just start it sooner.

>> Bro, I I Dude, I I'm smiling because I'm I like talking to young men like you because you're the guys that I want leading the next generation of of human beings that my kids are going to walk on the sidewalks that you that you're that you're pouring.

>> Yeah, I and I appreciate that. I and the reason for my call is is because of that, right? Like I I have that question of what do I want? Do I want peace? Do I want logic? And it goes back to also the the point that I think Jay was making is like it's between plus one or peace of mind early and focus on life earlier on, right? >> That's right. That's right. >> unshackle yourself from people telling you what to do at 23, how fast you can run will astonish you.

You'll get so far so much further ahead of your peers, your neighbors, the people around you. It's it's you're in a pretty amazing spot. Choose freedom today, brother. Def free today.

>> [music]

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>> Here's the deal. Buying or selling a home is actually a very, very big deal.

And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's very hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. But we're here to help make the latest trends easy to understand. For instance, last month the average 15-year fixed-rate mortgage, that rate it ticked up to about 5.56%.

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Now, to learn more about the housing market trends and to get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right, we got Richard who's in Austin, Texas. Hey Richard, how can we help today?

>> Yo, what's up, you guys? It's great to be on your show. >> Yeah. How can we help?

>> So, here's what's going on. I moved to Austin from Florida about 4 years ago, and I think I have the golden handcuffs at a 3% interest rate.

So, I [snorts] kept my home in Florida and it's been a rental property since.

And um I just had it appraised at 350 and I owe 190 on it. Now, I've done a ton of work and renovations to this home cuz it's 100 years old. Um so, right now I don't have a high uh amount of cash set aside. And so, it's kind of a lifestyle thing is where right now in Austin I'm living in a one-bedroom apartment. But the house does have a 3% interest rate. The mortgage is uh just under 1,500 a month and it's rented for 2,200 a month.

And so, I'm curious if I should hold on to that house because a 3% interest rate isn't coming back.

And uh or if I should sell it and look at maybe getting a place out here where I'm looking to uh stay for quite a few more years. >> I have a great idea for you.

I want you to get on a computer OG style. Use clip art. Don't use like any of the AI tools. Use clip art. And make

a sign that says 3%.

And print it in color and I want you to frame it and I want you to put it right in the middle of your teeny, tiny one-bedroom apartment kitchen.

>> Uh okay. >> time you Every time you have to turn sideways to get by your stool so you can get into your fridge, I want you to look up and be like, "Yeah, 3%. This one's for you."

>> Yeah. Yeah. And when I And when I go on dates, I'll say, "Hey, but but I do own a house. It's just on the other side of the country." >> Yeah. Yeah. But [laughter] in the meantime, why don't you come back to my place and I can we can both squeeze into the the futon I have in my combined kitchen {slash} breakfast nook

{slash} living room. >> Oh gosh. Yeah. [laughter] Why are you doing this to yourself? >> square feet. >> Do Do what?

>> I said it's a whole 650 square >> Oh man. >> [laughter] >> This You know what? I'm going to tell you what. I'll give you one worse.

That's like when you have like a really And I know you're you're a man, but like if you have a a pair of jeans you love or like and you gain a couple pounds and they don't fit anymore >> [laughter] >> and you just keep them in there and it's just taunting you. Every time you see them it's like just a reminder like you're fatter than you were. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, yeah.

Here's a good question to ask you.

If you had 150 grand right now,

would you take out a mortgage even at 3% and buy a house in where in nowhere Florida?

>> No. >> No. >> You wouldn't do that? >> Just by default, man. >> You're you're a long distance landlord. Sell the place, have get that money, buy yourself a place in Austin and enjoy your life, dude.

>> I guess just looking into the future my thought is it'll be paid off in uh just under 20 years and if you have paid off [laughter] the >> What are you saying? >> Call me. Have you been alive the last 10 years?

>> Yes, sir. I think so.

>> Could you have predicted any of what's happened?

>> No. >> Okay. >> No. >> So trying to read 20 years into the future that is this madhouse,

man, I man, best of luck to you.

I would solve >> right.

I figured y'all would go down that that road but but you don't think it's worth keeping it just for the lower >> No, you don't live there anymore. You don't live there. You don't live there and to John's point, you can call it a rental house but it's really not that because if you were on the hunt for a rental house, you would not have chosen that house. So it's just a house that you lived in and now you don't live there anymore so you sold it. Like there's nothing there's no loss there.

There's no failure. There's no and it's almost like you're viewing it as a failure to sell this house and let it go and it's not. You you moved on and that's okay. It's a natural part >> You're not winning. >> of life. >> And I'll go a step further, brother. I this is me and my house. I had a 3.1% in interest rate and I paid my house off.

My wife and I scratched and clawed and worked like crazy to pay our house off.

And I could have made more money. It it like in the years since, I could have if I took the gap and put it in the in the market, I would have made money.

But dude, I wouldn't trade that arbitrage for anything thing because I put my head down on my pillow and that house is mine and nobody can take it from me. >> So So probably shoot for cuz the way I set up the lease is that it'll be vacated uh this not this spring but a year from now in the spring. >> No, too long. Tell him you're selling the house. Tell him you're selling the house.

>> Really? >> Yes. Well, you're going to keep it for another year?

>> Yeah, I guess that's a good I guess that's a good point. >> At some point, I want you to start considering what do you want your house to What do you want your life to feel like right now?

You're You're You're over indexing on a an imaginary future and you're under indexing on the life you live right this second. You get about >> Yeah, and that's the thing is the is the ego head of living in an apartment for the time with the thought of well, you know, and when I retire, I'll have a paid-off home sitting there, something like that. >> Yeah, maybe. Or maybe a hurricane takes it.

Like who knows, dude? >> Yeah, you change what you want I mean, you could change what you want and that's not even in your purview when you get that age.

>> Well, all right. Well, then Dan, Dan, let's uh get get on the phone with one of y'all's endorsed real estate provider. >> I I would before the day is over.

And I dude, I You'll be smiling so big

when this thing sell I'm just telling you, man. When that money deposits in your account and you're free,

we'll be able to feel that smile all the way here in Nashville from Austin.

>> Yeah, that's a good thing. Yeah, that that whole We get that call all the time. A lot of times it's military folks who are moving around a lot and they end up with like a handful of houses in different states. And I it's almost like well, someone's in them, someone's renting it, so it must be a good idea.

And the truth is, like being a long-distance landlord, the places are getting tore up, you're probably not as involved as you need to be, or you're paying somebody to manage the property.

And it's just like if you reverse it, you never would have selected you never would have chosen that place. >> like recency amnesia. We just went through a global issue where in many markets they said, "We're freezing rents, or your people don't have to pay for an undisclosed amount of time." It's like It's like we've just all forgotten, man.

>> Well, I mean, I do think like COVID obviously was an isolated incident, but >> But it happened. >> But the whole point is 2008, 2009 was an isolated incident. And and and it's always another isolated incident, but But I would say like the the biggest part is what we've been saying for the last several calls, which is not letting life happen to you, but being so intentional about what you're choosing, and knowing that if you say yes to one thing, you're likely saying no to other things. And that's okay.

Like it's not a negative thing. It's a choice that you're making, and being really intentional that the things that are in your life, you have said you have looked at it and given it a once over and said, "Yes, I like that the way it is. I would choose that again tomorrow. I would choose that again the next day." And if you can't say that about things in your life, it's time to cut it loose.

That's That's that on that.

A little question here from the the the social media. Peyton from Facebook says, "My wife wants to upgrade rooms in our house, but I feel like it doesn't make sense since we will still have a mortgage on it. Should we use those funds to pay off the current mortgage, and then renovate it when we fully own it?"

>> I have a a bias there, so that's me.

>> Tell me. >> I I'm I'm on not on Ramsey principles, I'm on his principle like that's what I would want to do in my house.

And I also know >> one and upgrade it? Like and then renovate it? >> it's mine, then I'll start tinkering with it, but I also know like that question doesn't tell me what the state of the house is in. >> tell us what baby step they're on.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> If you listen, if you're in baby step two, now is not the time [laughter] to upgrade the mortgage. I can tell you that right now. >> Upgrade the bedroom, yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, okay. I read that a little bit different differently.

>> And he still has a mortgage, and he says, "Hey, should we pay off the mortgage?" I'm assuming they're in baby step four, five, and six, and >> Uh you know, okay. I'll I'll reframe my answer. If you're in baby steps four, five, and six, there is no wrong answer there. >> Fix it up, man, if you want to. Or pay it off, but >> Yeah. And if you're in baby step two, well, you already know what to do.

>> And I'll just say, "Mama wants to change up her room, probably change up that room." >> Unless you're on [music] baby step two.

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>> All right, [music] welcome back to The Ramsey Show here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Jade, this is John, and we're going to Beth who's in Denver, Colorado. We were just there hosting The Ramsey Show live. Beth, how you doing?

>> I'm doing all right today. How are you?

>> Doing good. How can we help you today?

>> Um my mom is uh 67 and currently living

on social security.

Um she is married and uh to my stepfather and they both had pretty major surgeries this year. My mom had back surgery and my stepdad had open heart surgery and they can't really work right now. They bring home about $4,400 a month. Um but I recently she started like being

short on things and finally I kind of asked to look at her finances and she has $51,000 in credit card debt.

Um she has zero savings, like literally zero. Um she has never really been really good at money. She's lost two houses and filed bankruptcy um before. Um I'm currently debt-free um

after following baby steps by I'm worth um with my husband about $1.8 million and um she knows that I have money and

so she keeps calling me and expecting me to help and um I've I've kind of put all

of her stuff into a budget for her and she keeps overspending. Um you know, she'll she'll order DoorDash or something and then wonder why she's short every month and so I'm trying to figure out how to kind of get it through to her that that like she has to stop and I you

know, I've talked to my husband and we we just like don't feel like helping her is >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> What about your stepdad? What's his role? What's his role in all this?

>> I mean, they're both equally terrible at

money just generally speaking and so um, you know, she's asked me to buy her a house, and she's asked me to do like all of these things, and I'm like, we we can't do that. Like, that's not >> Oh, this is extreme. This [laughter] is far worse than I I ask my buddies for nachos, not a house.

>> Oh, boy. Um, and how long How long have they been married?

>> Um, they've been married since I was five, so 40 years. >> is not like, oh, this is kind of new.

They're they've they've been a mess for a while.

A long, long while. >> Yeah, it And and they had uh money when I was in high school, and like, um, kind of just spent it, and and leaned into that lifestyle, and then they tried to downsize, and so so bought another house, ended up losing both houses, um, and they've lived in in rentals ever since then.

>> Yeah. I mean, they made choices. They made choices the same way you made choices, right? They were dealt a hand, and they said, "Here's what I'm going to do." You were dealt your hand, and you said, "Here's what I'm going to do." Um, if you spend too much time and and John, this is your area, but if you spend too much time trying to sort through why other people made and make the choices that they're making, it is just >> to go insane.

>> Right. Yeah, you will go insane. Especially if you're using that framework to determine what you're going to do. It's like, you just got to >> Yeah, I mean, I just go, "Hey, I I see what's going on.

It's very apparent. I don't need to do a bunch of mental gymnastics here.

When you said she was literally coming to you saying, "Hey, will you buy me a house?" >> Right. >> That's when I knew we don't even need to go through a whole lot of the rigmarole of what they're doing. This is ridiculousness, and I'm wondering, um, have you just gone to her and said, "Mom, here are the ways I can help you.

I can help you with the budget. I can help you as accountability to stick with the budget. Uh Uh I can help show you the things that I've done. I can provide a plan for you.

But, one thing I cannot do because you guys actually do have money is I'm not going to give you monetary help because you have money coming in that if you manage it properly will be enough for you. And I think when you say that very clearly, that's all you can say. And then when when when your mom oversteps the boundary because she's going to, you can just say, "Hey, just remember what I said before let's I'm happy to sit down with you and do the budget." >> Yeah. I think the tricky part right now is that like us about half of these things are already in collections.

Like the credit cards are in collections. She She doesn't even have enough room in her budget to pay these crazy minimums. And so, I've kind of told her to to start with one credit card and like not pay the rest right now. And I've set like I've set up a budget for her.

>> follow it. >> Beth.

She's lost two houses before.

>> Yeah. >> She She's had the worst thing that can happen to somebody. She lost her home.

And then she had it happen again.

And then she's about to have it happen again.

What does that tell you What does that tell you? >> I mean I just feel like they just don't learn from their mistakes. >> Okay. So, so you Here's the thing, you're right and like they they blow by natural consequences.

The rules of the world of reality don't apply to them. When they have money and when they don't.

And >> Yeah. >> No no amount Let me free you from this.

There's not a thing you haven't said in just the right way that would solve this for them.

They're really fortunate to have you as their daughter.

The fact that you care this much cuz I know in a family with finances like this, you've been through a lot also, right?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, yeah. >> Yeah, listen. Listen.

Yes.

Yes. I wanted you to hear me say you have changed your family tree.

You didn't take the baton from them. You picked it up off the track and you decided to run as fast as you could with it. And you're going to hand it off to your kids in a much better position than you were given it, right?

>> Yeah, I mean, that's that was my huge motivator for for for not ending up like

that. Like I just promised I would never leave my kids like like in this position. >> Yeah, and you've done that. And I want you to hear me and Jade say we're still man, we're so proud of you cuz what you've done is really hard. It's harder than just doing the baby steps. You also had to take care of that 7-year-old little girl that was dealing with chaos and divorce and new boyfriends and food

insecurity growing up.

>> And now it continues to be hard because here you are doing well and you have to sit and see >> survivor's guilt. That's right. Yeah.

And so let me say here's what I know about you. I can tell it by the way you told the story. If this if your mom and stepdad were doing really well and suddenly their house got hit by a giant limb, you would be there with a checkbook on day one. That's who you are.

But you can't keep showing up to the bar of a friend who's struggling with an alcohol addiction and saying, all right, I'm going to buy this round and then you got to go.

>> Yeah. >> And you and into that same analogy you've been kind but you've been kind you said I'll pay for therapy, I'll pay for rehab, I'll pay for and if they say >> They don't want to go. >> They don't want it. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah, I offered to pay for financial peace and I don't even want to do I don't even want to do it because I don't think she'll do it. >> Yeah, they and they won't and then they don't they don't they don't want your help. I mean, they don't want your advice. They want your money.

And that [clears throat] breaks my heart for you because everyone needs their mom.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I feel like the adult. >> Yeah, you you 100% are the adult and that means you have to act like the adult and when our toddlers I I never I never ceases to amaze me when people are like man, my 10-year-old only wants ice cream. I'm like yes, they're 10 and ice cream's awesome. They need adults in their lives to say hey, we can't do that all the time.

And it similarly, you are you're the adult now and you have to say hey, I'm I'm not giving you any more money and then you're going to have to go home with your husband and be real sad that your mom put [music] you in this position. I hate it for you.

>> Yeah, and if you give her more money, she's going to be wasteful with it and that's [music] just going to add to any resentment or any feelings of, you know, any negative feelings that you already have towards her.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> All right, back to the phone lines we go where we have Dakota who's in Memphis, Tennessee. What's going on, Dakota?

>> Uh how are y'all doing today?

>> Doing pretty good. How can we help?

>> Uh I have about 30,000 in debt, roughly.

Uh it's really just it's really just my truck payment. Um I have all my credit cards paid off. I I have a couple other vehicles.

Everything's paid off, but I want to pay off my truck and I want to start saving for a house. I don't even know what to do to do that.

>> Okay, I love that you're interested in paying off vehicles your vehicle. Why do you have multiples? What other vehicles did you have? >> Uh I have a 1993

uh 73 IDI diesel truck. I have a motorcycle and a couple four wheelers.

>> Oh boy. >> You like them wheels, don't you?

>> Huh, yes, sir.

>> [laughter] >> What's your income to have all these >> You better be making a million a million bucks, homie.

>> Uh no. Just terrible with money.

>> [laughter] >> Well, at least you're honest. >> Hey, dude. Yeah, admission is the first step. >> Okay, so tell me again, tell me what are you earning?

>> Uh I'm making about 3,200 a month after

taxes.

>> Okay, so I'm just going to put you on blast. My screen says that this truck has a 30% interest rate.

Is that true?

>> Yes, ma'am. >> You left that little part out.

>> [laughter] >> Uh I >> mob? What did you do?

>> Uh I don't I'm not really for sure why they gave it to me at such a high interest rate. I didn't have a co-signer. It was a year ago, so I was right I just turned 21.

>> No, no, no, wait, wait, wait. You said I'm not sure why they gave it to me. I want to know why did you take it?

Why did you receive it?

>> I was I was going to travel on the road and you know, be a be a welder out on the road. Well, my dad got cancer, so I came off the road. So I come back to making regular people money.

>> Got you. Okay. >> you you just walked into a truck dealership and they sold you a truck and just is it is it like a

Was it like a payday lot or is this like a dealership?

>> It was an actual dealership out in Mississippi. >> And they rolled you up for 30%?

>> Yes, sir.

>> Wow. Okay. >> Man, I Whoever did that is a terrible, terrible person taking advantage of a 21-year-old kid who's trying to take care of his dad with cancer.

I I won't say what I'm thinking in my head because I'm on the radio right now, but that's that's a terrible, terrible person taking advantage of you like that.

>> Yes, sir. >> Well, you live and learn. So you know better than to come >> Hey, and you know what? That that's the the path forward is okay, you took advantage of me, you got winning on me, but I stepped in the ring. I signed that paper. You're right. Now now what am I going to do next? So good on you, brother. That's that's the that's the right way to handle it. Now you got a mess, let's just go walk through it and clean it up.

>> Yes, sir. >> Um so when you pay your pay, how much is your payment?

>> 800 a month. >> Okay. Um man.

All right, the only way you're going to get out of this is to just quickly blast

through this. That's the only way. Or you can turn around and sell it, but >> How upside down are you? >> Yeah, I know that you are. >> Uh, I'm not I'm not upside down at all right now. I mean, uh, I'm making enough to pay my truck payment, pay my insurance, and have a little bit of fun with the money and everything else. It's just >> Uh, upside down meaning how much is that truck if you went and sold it today, how much would you get for that minus what you owe on it?

>> Oh, uh, I'd be upside down by 10,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay, so to Here's the plan.

I want you quickly, today, tomorrow, I want you to go to your local credit union, and I want you to say, "Can you please somehow I got into this crazy loan. I want to sell the vehicle. Can you please give me a loan for $10,000?" That way when you go and you sell this car for what it's worth, you can close that gap and be able to get the title.

You can be able to pay it off and and have a clear a clear title on it. So, that's what you need. You need $10,000.

And then in the meantime, you've got another truck, you've got four-wheelers, you've got You've got other ways to get yourself around town until you can use your income to save up I don't know, $6,000? I Something tells me you're good at working on vehicles.

So, get yourself like a six or $7,000 truck or car, and let that be your beater that you drive around town until you can save up and and kind of get yourself on track. >> Does your dad Is he feeling better? Is he doing well?

>> Uh, he's got a cancer appointment this coming Monday. He's got another surgery.

This will be his fourth one. >> Does Does he have a car you can use in the meantime?

>> Uh, he does, but he's disabled and he's always at the house, so I'd hate to leave him at the house with nothing.

>> Yeah, but if he's not going anywhere, then I I'm trying to give you options, and you wouldn't be the only person cruising Memphis on a four-wheeler.

>> [snorts] [laughter] >> That was That was I'm in Nashville, so that was my That was my Memphis dig.

But, um, yeah, man, you you're going to have to just swallow all of your ego and all your pride and all of the things that you think had made you a man at 21, a big truck, four-wheelers, toys, and you're going to have to say, "The thing that makes me a man at 21 is absolute freedom." >> Right. >> Right? >> And you know, like we don't I don't I don't think we're going to have to convince you to do this cuz you know 30% is just astronomical.

And for for your income that you're bringing in, I mean, it's just going to it's just going to eat your lunch.

And you're going to hate driving it. You probably already do hate driving it because it's just it's so detrimental to anything you're trying to build right now. >> Right. I go through about 250 bucks a

week in diesel.

Um >> All right. All right. Do you use your truck for work?

>> Yes, sir. It's my daily driver.

>> I know, but do you It Is it have like a welding rig on the back or is this Could you do the same job with a Prius?

>> Uh I could do the same job with a Prius.

I work in a welding shop. >> tax time. You got to drive a Prius for a year. That's your That's your tax on what on your stu- That's your stupid tax. I'm just playing. You don't got to do that. >> But, you do need to get that loan. Will you do it?

>> Uh I can try. Uh my credit is

650 or 660 right now.

>> Listen, dude. Here's the thing.

I don't care I don't care how you need to get this loan. You're not Nothing's going to be worse than 30%. >> No. And you're not you're not close to a house right now, man.

So, set that dream aside for a second. >> Yeah. You could put the You could put the 10,000 anywhere else and it's going to be better than what you're paying right now on this car loan. >> Or could you sell both those four-wheelers and come up with 10 grand on the sale of those?

>> Oh, yeah. That's a great That's an even better idea, John. >> Uh not a chance. I could probably sell my motorcycle.

>> How much is that worth? >> Seven. >> Yes. >> Today.

Today.

>> Okay. >> And here's the thing. When If you think about buying a house right now, that's like you are out in the ocean and the ship had a hole in it and you're treading water and you're and you're trying to get online on your phone and buy curtains for a beach house.

>> Mhm. Like your thing you should be worrying about now is swimming to shore.

>> Yeah, what about your other diesel truck? What's that worth?

>> Um about 4,000. It's all old trucks.

It's got a lot of high miles on it. >> That's your new That's your new daily driver, dude. >> Yeah, that's your new daily driver. So, yeah, this is This is even better. We sell the motorcycle.

I would still put the four-wheelers up cuz who knows? Maybe you can close that gap and get the 3,000. I don't know what a four-wheeler's worth. But, you need 3,000 to go with the 7,000. Then you sell the $30,000 truck and you've got your diesel truck, your older one sitting there ready for you to drive.

This is This is what's called a clean slate. Like that gives you a completely fresh start.

And it's not what you were envisioning, but man, >> What's your What's your trade, brother?

>> Uh I'm a welder welder / heavy machine

operator. >> Okay, can I tell you right now in our current world, a 21-year-old who is a licensed welder and heavy machine operator that has that has no debt, you know what you can do? Anything you want.

You're one of the freest men on the planet.

>> That sounds real nice. >> But, right now you got a dad who's struggling with cancer and you have a four-wheeler dealership saying, "I don't care what's going on. You owe us money.

You go to work." You have a diesel truck

uh evil people who sold you a diesel truck over your head and they're like, "I don't care if your old man's passed is is getting sick is is has passed away. You have to go to work cuz you owe us money, right?" And we're We're cutting all those chains today.

>> Right. That sounds like a plan to me.

>> Dude, welcome to to to your freedom, good man.

>> Yeah, I'm proud of you. Listen, John, here's the thing. Whenever when Whenever we get calls like this and the the solution is so sweeping and it's just so extreme. It's like, "Sell the car.

Sell the motorcycle. drive the old truck, get rid of the four-wheelers. I am always so proud of the people. Now, don't get me wrong, like, when we say that, I know they're going to get off the phone and they're going to sit in their car or they're going to sit, you know, in their break room and be like, "Okay, like, the the the true test happens now." Where he has the next, uh, you know, 30 minutes to an hour to really think about what we said and am I actually going to do it?

>> Don't think, just go. Just go.

Just go. Move. Move. Move. >> do it. The people who And we're not saying just listen to us and don't think, but you know what we're saying is right. You know it's the right move. Don't talk yourself out of it. Strike while the iron is hot. Change your life today. Just go out and do it. You won't regret it.

>> [music]

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>> Alrighty, let's go back to the phone lines where we have Leanne who's in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. What's going on

Leanne? How can we help today?

>> Well, I need to find out if uh profit

potential is worth a liability and

worry. Uh my husband's father had a recent illness, um quickly put him

in a nursing home.

Um the uh siblings there's four of them decided they wanted to do a ladybird deed to protect the only asset which is his house from creditors. He has uh $30,000 in credit card debt,

no savings.

There's a $140,000 loan on this house and it's probably worth $350,000.

Um the siblings are going to have to split

the cost to keep this house running.

Um if uh it's sold, the creditors or Medicare can

take it.

Um that's who's going to be paying for his nursing home.

>> Okay. >> And so that's that's telling that we've been told that that will be $400 a piece

>> [snorts] >> um per month to take care of this house.

Uh it's 15 hours away.

The profit might be 20 to $30,000 when he passes away.

um one of the siblings has had over 30,000 in gambling debt. Um there's also two

children from a deceased sibling, so it'll be divided six ways.

Um >> After it's divided six ways, that's the $20,000 profit?

>> Right. >> Okay. >> And who knows how long we're going to have to pay this $400 a month.

I'm the only one that works. My husband had an injury. He'll be be getting retirement soon, but he can't work, so it's me paying the $400. If something does happen to my husband before his father passes away,

this his proceeds will go to his children. >> It won't go to you. >> I will be No, it'll go to the children.

And that I guess that just That's the way that works. And >> Are you expecting your husband not to make it? >> He has some He has some Well, he has some significant health problems, so there is a risk >> I mean >> for that. >> When I look at the nursing home situation, most people it's a two it's a two and a half to three years stay. Like that's the maximum that you can usually count on. Um that's just average time.

So if I were going to do the math on this, I would calculate it at Okay, if I pay 400 bucks a month, you know, for two

to three years, that puts me in this you know, X amount of dollars, what, $12,000?

And then I I stand to make at that point, I don't know, 10,000 $8,000 off

this entire deal and off this entire headache if if I get the 20,000.

So that's kind of where my brain immediately goes.

>> Um let me let me let me dig it like do you do you have $400 a month?

>> Yes, but there's a lot of resentment on my part because he didn't take care of his finances.

>> Sure. I I get that. Um

>> I don't think >> I just don't I don't want to be on the deed.

>> I I would not do this as an investment.

I would do this as a way for me like

in service to my husband who feels like he needs to take care of his dad at the tune of $400 a month for the next 18 to 24 months. If you get some money back, yippee do da ape. I wouldn't count on it. I would look at it that way.

>> The only The only thing is um it's his dad's going to be taken care of. The siblings are using this as a savings a

way of savings to keep the house.

>> I I know I know Hold on. Hold on. >> can do that. They can do that.

>> heads and out of their minds. It resentment is a is a is baggage you're carrying. Right? You've heard the old AA saying, "You're drinking poison hoping that they will get sick." I'm going to choose to send $400 to my father-in-law, me and my husband are together, and we're going to send $400 to take care of him. His siblings have been have had their struggles before They've always had struggles. They're always going to have struggles.

I'm not getting in their mess. I'm not doing business deals with them. Yada yada yada. That's That's all wise and good. I'm not looking at this as a what a And by the way, he technically is getting taken care of, but he's getting taken care of with your tax dollar. You're paying for this in anyway, right?

>> Correct. >> So >> That's another thing that's >> If you don't want to be part of this, you don't have to be part of it. And and you know, you you asked a very clear question like is there basically a return on investment for me if I do this? Yeah, and maybe you come out with $8,000, but I don't think that's worth it for you.

You don't know that you're going to get this money. You don't even want to be a part of this. >> Can you can can your Yeah, can your husband just say, "Hey, we we want out of this deal.

>> Yeah, but like >> I would do that. >> Is there a liability with this house?

Can someone come back on us?

>> On you? No, you're not on the deed.

>> You're not on the deed.

>> Right, if they're not on the deed. But the husband would be put on the deed.

>> No, no, no. He can go in and say, "I don't want anything to do with this deal. I I'm I'm foregoing my piece of this, my potential piece of this. Best of luck to you all." >> Mhm, yes.

>> That's That's exactly what I would do. >> Because to your point, he's not and I don't know what you guys have going on with your personal finances, but he's not the one paying for it. You would be the one paying for it. And you're saying, "I don't want to do it." >> We only owe uh for our house and our vehicle.

>> Yeah, yeah. >> So >> Please, yeah. If you can convince him, I don't know if he's like dead set on this, but if you can convince him, "I don't want to be a part of this." I think that's the answer. No >> And it he'll Y'all will come out looking like the good guys.

Tell Tell his siblings, "Hey, you know what? We We're We're We're doing well. We want y'all to split it amongst yourselves." >> Yeah, there you go.

That's even better. >> And this ends up By the way, this ends up in multiple lawsuits because somebody's cousin of one of these step kids is going to be like, "Well, I want a piece." And they're going to have a friend who knows a guy who will write a legal brief I mean not a brief, but a legal letter. Just yeah, stay away. Stay away from the whole thing. >> Absolutely, absolutely.

Well, John, another social question I have here in my hand. Let's see here.

>> You love them social media questions. >> I like them because people sometimes they don't want to call in. They just want to talk to us here. All right, Joni from TikTok says, "Is hiring a credit repair company a smart move?" >> No. >> I don't have a lot of current debt. I just have some really old things on my credit that I want to get rid of.

>> There's that old Seinfeld uh exchange when Kramer comes in and he's like, "They write it off." And Seinfeld's like, "They write it off of what?" He's like, "I DON'T KNOW. THEY JUST write it Like it doesn't just go away. Just pay it.

>> Yeah, I would say pay it and you can probably, if it's really, really old, you can probably settle it. >> Settle it. >> Cuz that's what they're going to do. >> Yeah. >> By the way, let's let's talk about that in a minute because we get a lot of credit um credit repair uh debt

settlement companies like that whole thing. And just a reminder, they do what

you can do. They just make deals. They hold the money for a long time so that you are in default basically. It wrecks your credit.

And then they go in and make deals, which is exactly what you can do and you're already in the position to do that because the thing's been sitting around for however long old on your credit. Just call them up and however much you owe, let's say you owe $1,000 on something, save up 400 bucks cash and say, "This is what I'll give you." They weren't expecting to get your money anyway at this point.

Let's say you were driving down the highway and you had a flat tire and you pulled over.

You can call a tow truck and negotiate with a code tow truck or you can call a

credit repair company, they'll get back in your car and they'll drive it down the highway into a brick wall and then they will call the tow truck company for [laughter] you. That's what they'll do. >> Like just wreck it for me. >> They'll take your credit and they'll they'll hold your money, they'll destroy your financial picture and then they'll

get the same deal you were going to get anyway. Just get $400 in cash, call them.

>> Yeah, that's right. You can do this. I I believe in you. Again, John, there's such a theme on this show about being in control.

This is like the fourth one that we've talked about of just just take control of your destiny. You don't need anybody to do it for you. >> No. And if you call a your a creditor, an old creditor, and they and they say, "Hey, this $1,000 debt's now worth $8,000 in fees and whatever." Say, "I got $400 in cash.

I'll pay it right now." And they'll say, "Well, I'm not authorized." Hang up. Just hang up the phone. >> Hang up and call somebody else back and be as annoying to them as they are to you.

>> [music]

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>> You know, we [music] wish we could get to every single call here on the Ramsey Show, every single question, but it's just not possible. So, if you do have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles.

You'll get an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. Ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, Aaron in Minneapolis, Minnesota is on line three. What's up, Aaron? How can we help?

>> Hey, how you guys doing today?

>> Chilling. How can we help?

>> So, I just recently turned 19. Um, I am

working full-time. I'm have been dating this girl for almost 2 years now, and we

are about to fully move in together.

Um, she's full-time going to college, yet a university and whatnot, and I live

very close to her campus, and so,

um, usually most of pretty much throughout the entire time of her being a freshman, she's pretty much just stayed at my place all the time. Um, even though she's technically lived at the dorm, but now she's for sure like coming up soon on this next lease. She's fully going to be moving in with me and my roommates, and we just have some financial disagreements.

And we don't really know how to resolve >> roommates do you already have, dude?

>> So, I currently have three roommates.

>> Oh my god, she loves you. She's about to live with four.

Wow, this is different.

>> Yeah, I I got I got really lucky. My rent is very cheap. Obviously, having to do with the fact that I do have roommates, but I get along very well. >> Four bedrooms.

>> Wow. >> Hey, if you if you actually see a future with you and this girl, don't do this. >> Please don't do this. She's going to see too much. She can't unsee the things that she's going to see and experience.

>> Yeah, [clears throat] so >> [laughter] >> so just a little bit Go ahead.

>> Just Listen, dude.

I I was 19, too. I was head over heels in love when I was 19, too. Please don't do this. >> What's her name?

>> Uh her name is um Madeline.

>> Okay, I know you just made that up.

>> I good Hey, I'm proud of you for protecting her. >> And Madeline, wherever you are, please [laughter] don't do this on behalf of women everywhere. I'm scared for you.

>> [laughter] >> Um I I'm making jokes, but seriously with John I'm with John. Please don't do this. Um there's no way that this is good.

There's no There's no good parts to this. in many, many ways.

>> yeah. So, so here's here's kind of where I stand on it. So, the the main reason for it and then again, I I've gotten really lucky. One, my rent is super cheap, and we have gotten along not just me, but me and her cuz like I said, she she's been over at my house constantly every single >> you get along. >> Oh, yeah. Of course Of course Of course.

But yeah, and so we get along very well with my roommates.

We always hang out together.

>> from living together. >> It's [laughter] so different.

>> Very true. Very Very true. But again,

it's kind of >> Tell me why it has You tell me Hey, you tell me why it has to be this way.

Give me Give me three good reasons why it has to be this way. >> Give me one.

>> So, I am currently I Like I said, I work a full-time job. I'm not too old or anything like that. She She has a part-time job, but she does not save her

money. Um she Like I said, we're kind of on two ends of the spectrum when it comes to money and finances. >> be rescuing her.

>> Pretty much. And obviously >> Hold on. Hold on. And she would be using you. Go ahead.

>> [clears throat] >> Um yeah, and it's just obviously, like

you mentioned, you know, young and in love. I'm 19, you know, I I want a

future with her, and I'm trying to overcome some of these things that I'm trying to work things out the best way possible, you know, she She We We

We're from about an hour and a half away from where we currently live. >> Uh-huh. >> Um we're both from the same hometown, and she got the opportunity to go to school up at this place. Um and I didn't

want If If I didn't move out, I was just going to be living with my parents, and I didn't want that. I wanted to get out and kind of >> So, you moved there because she was there.

>> Pretty much. >> Okay. That's all good. >> That's there Listen, I'm going to repeat back to you what you said, and I want you to really think about each one of these because this is My My job here is to make you think. I'm not going to be able to convince you by giving you my opinion. I just want you to think about the things that you said.

First off, you told me I When I said, "Hey, give me three good reasons why this is a great idea." You told me, and I'm going to say them in reverse order. You said, "Well, she was moving there, so I just moved there, too."

She had a plan for her life. I didn't really have much of a plan, so I just went where she was. That was the the last thing you told me.

Then you said, "Well, it's kind of convenient because her lease is up. And so since her lease is up, that's kind of like a convenient thing, so I'll just roll with that.

Then then the next thing you told me was, well, she doesn't really work much, so whatever she's doing now, she's probably not going to be able over to afford it, so I can afford it, so I'll just do that, too. And I'll just rescue her and she can use me. So when you give me those types of reasons, John, all of those are just kind of like, hey, I'm just letting life I'm just rolling.

I'm just letting anything happen that I want to happen, right?

>> Yeah. And and here's the thing, dude, we want y'all to be successful long-term. I want this to work out for you. I like the idea of moving to go be with the person you want to be with. I love that. And you're working your full-time job.

But A, you're bringing her a 19-year-old young woman into a house with three dudes not who aren't going to school, who live very different lives. >> Mhm. >> You are um not aligned on how y'all spend money, how y'all earn money, how you you're not aligned on core values.

And you're not aligned on who's going to pay for what, how are we going to pay This I'm I'm just telling you cuz I want this to work for y'all, dude. I'm a such a romantic at heart.

>> And I know >> Don't do this. >> And and try to think of this is a horrible thing for me to say cuz I don't at 19, your brain is just not there, but if at all you can muster up the thought [laughter] of if your daughter said, I'm

going to go live in a house with four dudes who are 19, >> one of which is my lover, >> you would you would do the Fred Sanford and have a heart attack [laughter] and and AND FALL OUT. THAT'S WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. NOW, WE DROPPED YOUR CALL on accident. I think the call dropped. You're not here to respond to this, but just know we love you, dude. We're we're rooting for you. We are on your side. We want the best FOR YOU. >> DON'T THIS. Please don't do this.

>> [laughter] >> He's not going to do it. Let's go to April. >> She's in Cleveland, Ohio. April, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um well, my son is 22 years old. He

just uh received a settlement in February. Um so, we are discussing things that he should do, and he already has done some stuff, but we're not sure what to do with the rest of that he has from that we already um like put in investment, and he opened

a growth savings. He did investment. Um

and then he did pay off some things that he had to pay off, and then bought a car. But, we don't know what to do with the rest. >> How how old is your son?

>> 22. >> Okay. And how much money are we talking from the settlement?

>> He got 250,000.

>> What happened?

>> Um he received a a TDAP shot when he was 10, and um he

got a blood disorder, and he had a got his spleen removed. He's good now, um

but it came back and said it was from the shot. So, >> I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. Okay, will you do me the You're asking a money question, and we'll get to that right here real quick, but I want you to do me a huge favor.

>> Yes. >> You've been taking care of this boy since he was young, cuz you're a good mom, especially through medical stuff.

I want [snorts] you to put your son in the driver's seat of this situation.

He's a 22-year-old young man.

>> Mhm. >> And so, I want you to I want in your home, I want you to tell your son, "Hey, you know what? I've been saying, 'What are we going to do with this money?' This is your money.

And I will sit by you. I'll help you make wise choices, but you're 22 years old.

>> Right. >> And his his a 22-year-old man needs his

mommy to sit in the backseat or in the driver I mean, in the passenger seat at best. Preferably not in the car at all.

Okay. >> Exactly. >> And I know this is hard, but that's that's that's my two cents there. Jay, what do you think of my plan? >> I get the sense that he's responsible.

>> He is He is responsible. He wants to make He wants to grow. >> Yeah, I I I believe that. And And if I were in your shoes, it sounds like he's paid off his debt. He doesn't have any more debt. It sounds like he has a He has a reasonable emergency fund set aside, yes?

>> Yeah, he So, he he He's a barber. My

husband His dad has been a barber for 20 years. So, now he's a barber and they're at the same shop. So, >> So, he's making a reasonable income. As long as he's making a reasonable income, he's set aside some savings.

I would take this money and honestly, the next big goal for me, and if I were him, I'd be like, "I want to buy a house. And I want to buy I want to put as much down on that house as possible. [music] Maybe I can even buy it completely in cash.

[music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

We're going back to the phone lines where we have Susan, who's in Huntsville, Alabama. All right, Susan, you're on the line. How can we help?

>> Hi. How are y'all? >> Doing great. What's up?

>> Good. Um I'm excited. Y'all are my favorite hosts, so >> Yes. We're going to We're going to clip that and send it to our colleagues.

>> Don't tell Dave.

>> [laughter] >> Um we're just needing some help navigating our debt. Um we have about 37,000 in debt, and that's including my car debt and credit cards.

And we started in January listening to y'all and um trying to attack those debts, and we're down 5,000 in the credit cards already that we've paid.

>> Great. >> Um but every time it just seems like every time we have that thousand dollars, like life is happening and somebody we've both needed new tires and

um like our fridge went out last weekend and we didn't have the thousand dollars saved back up. So, it felt like a sin, but I had to go put it on a Lowe's credit card. So, now it just feels like we're adding to

um you know, it feels like we're just taking two steps backwards. So, anyways, I just feel sick knowing we're further into debt now than we were and um yeah, it just makes me nervous not feeling prepared when things come up.

So, I just wondered if y'all could help me navigate that. >> Yeah, so here's [clears throat] what I want to say. You know, part of and and we we can do a better job of of saying this, but when you decide, "Hey, you know what? I'm going to work the baby steps.

I'm I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to pay off the debt. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going in hard into this." The almost the number one thing that you need to do next to budgeting, the number one thing you have to do is you have to look yourself in the mirror and say, "I draw a line in the sand. I don't borrow money anymore." I just I do not borrow money anymore unless I'm like John Q in my son is in the you know, remember that movie with Denzel Washington?

>> Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> And you know, but you see what I'm saying?

And the way the baby steps are, especially baby step one, it's very unique because it's a thousand dollars saved. And I get it in today's world people are going, "You've you're off your rocker, Jade and and John, if you think that a thousand dollars is going to get it." But I the way I explain it, Susan, is a thousand dollars is exactly the amount that it takes to turn on the creative part of your brain.

That to to go, "Okay, if something happens, I actually don't have the money to do this. What else can I do?" And so, when you take debt off the table, suddenly you go, "Well, I don't have to go to Lowe's and buy a brand new fridge.

I could go I don't even know if Craigslist exists anymore, but I could go on Facebook Marketplace and I could buy a slightly used one for the meantime that is maybe $800, but I can scrape

together that cash or $300 and scrape together that cash." Do you see what I'm saying? That is That is the gritty challenge of the baby steps. It causes you to just turn on that brain and go, "Okay, what can I do?

What can I do? Where can I go?" And that's what I want to challenge you from here going forward. I'm not telling you that to beat you up. I'm letting you know that's the way it feels and that's the way it's going to feel. Everything is going to feel inconvenient. Most things are going to feel like a challenge and that's good.

Like that's how you know it's working.

So from here on out, that's got to be the line. That's got to be the feeling.

Otherwise, to your point, it will be two steps forward, one step back or one step forward, two steps back if you don't make that call. So going forward, we got to do that. So when you went So the 37,000 that you quoted me, is that including the new fridge?

>> Yes. >> Okay, great. So now we've got a car. How much of the 37,000 is the car?

>> So we have two car payments. Um one of them is $339 a month. We have about 7K left on it. >> Mhm. >> And then we have a minivan for $630 a

month with about 27,000 left.

>> Okay. >> And last time I checked, we're about 9K underwater on it. >> Oh boy, okay. And on the And then the credit cards are how much the rest of it? >> So a new Lowe's card is 2K.

>> Okay. >> And then we have about a thousand on another credit card left. >> Okay. So my the number one place I'm

looking is at this $27,000 car because it's $630 a month, you

desperately need that money.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah? >> It's hurting us bad. >> It's hurting you bad. And cuz what's your income every month?

>> So my husband does work a lot of overtime, or he does work overtime here and there throughout the month, so it does vary, but we're bringing in about 4,500 to 5,500

um a month. >> Each month? Yeah. I mean, to have that $630 back, that would be like breathing again.

So what my goal would be, and it it's up to you how how you guys do this, but

I would be trying to get out of that $27,000 car.

And you could You're going to have to play this just right, otherwise it's not going to be worth it, but you could say, "Okay, I'm 9,000 underwater. Can I get a loan for the difference, and can I find something that's I don't know While While I'm at it, can I ask for another maybe 4,000, so I'm 13 in, and I just

kind of buy a junker, or I ask for 5,000 more, and now I'm I'm 14,000 in, and I get a junker, and now instead of owing $27,000 to a bank, I owe 14 or 15,000 to a bank?" >> Mhm. >> I would do that.

>> Okay. >> And you start driving husband's car, and he drives the junker. >> Yeah, he drives the junker.

>> I don't know, his is looking rough.

>> [laughter] >> Then you're both driv- YOU'RE BOTH DRIVING junkers for a while. >> And listen listen to what Jade's saying.

I want you to paint the picture of your life right now. You have two cars that you can't afford with brand new tires on them.

>> Yeah. >> You went and bought a $2,000, which is a pretty nice fridge.

>> Mhm. >> The other side of this thing, if you if you have like uh like Stranger Things, if you go to the upside down version of this, you have one car with all the same tires on it. You just know, man, we are we're we're 6 months away.

You have one tire that you got and it doesn't match the other three.

You have a $500 fridge that you got off Facebook Marketplace and you shook hands and that guy said it worked.

And you sell this minivan and you're driving two clunkers. A,

you don't owe anybody anything.

And B, you look around and say, "Hey husband, you and I, we want a different life than this. Let's start being intentional and saving money so we can get another car here, a nicer fridge there." And you start taking control of your life back. Like part of the thousand bucks, part of having one new tire on a car instead of all four new tires is you don't want to stay like that forever. It's a reminder.

And it's it's it's more gasoline in the tank to keep going down this route of freedom, not this this route of let's just solve for today and let all these other people speak into our life, all these other banks, all these other loaning lending agencies.

>> Right, yeah. >> It's not cool for the first year. It's just not. It's miserable.

>> And for you guys, the good news is you're not going to stay there for long.

>> No. >> You're not there long at all because once you do this car deal and instead of paying $630 a month, maybe you're paying two or $230 a month or $330 a month, you

get half that money back and now you're able to use that money along with your other margin and you can knock out the $1,000 credit card in 1 month and then the next month maybe you're able to knock out the 2,000. Like you're going to be done with this. I'm saying I think you can knock this out in a year, but this is with you guys working so hard, him taking all the overtime he can get, you picking up extra work, you guys selling everything you can think of. Go through the garage, go through the attic, go through the basement.

Look [music] at the kids' old clothes. Can I take this? Can I put it on Poshmark? Can I put it on, you know, one of those consignments?

Everything you can do, anything you can do to sell something and get this money.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out, and broke. Don't be most people.

You work way too hard to be broke and

feel broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the EveryDollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth.

Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step-by-step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you.

You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> All right. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi.

Defaulted private student loans can leave you feeling stuck and overwhelmed, but WhyRefi helps you explore refinancing options with a low, fixed rate and a payment based on what you can actually afford. Visit whyrefi.com/ramsey.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Greg in

How do we determine the best car insurance coverage for our two teenagers? We provided each of them with a used car to get them through high school and college. We own the cars and they each have a value of under 500 I mean 500 5,000 dollars.

We're currently paying for full coverage on them, but I'm not sure if that makes sense. What's your recommendations on how to cover them adequately and not spend an arm and a leg for insurance?

Well, having two teenagers um I just added a teenager to my car insurance.

Woo, so adding two that's tough.

>> It made you feel It made you feel some type of way, John? >> Yeah, my my rule of thumb here is um my son's driving a used truck and it has liability insurance on it. And so I've got enough cash in my emergency fund that if he wrecks that car, I can replace a similar cheap car. You got two

Yeah, you got two 5,000 dollar cars. Um I would personally in my house I'd put liability coverage on them. I wouldn't carry comprehensive coverage. And the difference is liability pays for the car

that your teenager might hit, but not for your car that just got wrecked.

Comprehensive pays for both. And so um

yeah, that's that's what I would do in this situation. Um if if you have a car with payments on it, usually they they force you to have comprehensive cuz they want to make sure they get their money back on their car if you wreck it. Um I have comprehensive on me and my wife's cars. They're nicer cars and so um if they something happened to them, I want to be able to go get them repaired, but for couple of cheapo beater cars like you're going to give your high school kid like yeah, I'd I'd put liability on it and roll with it.

Our term life insurance, our car insurance, everything. >> Yeah, they'll find you the best rates. Very very good. Let's go to Casey in Dallas, Texas. Hi Casey, how can we help?

>> Hey, so oh hi first off. >> Hi. >> Hi, Casey.

>> So, me, wife, two toddlers moved in with

her grandmother uh to pay off debt exponentially fast and start saving.

Um and now we have an expecting third in the middle of July and looking for some advice on a reliable family car. We just

paid off all of our credit card debt, still some student loans left.

>> How much student loans left? How much debt total left?

>> Uh 12.2.

>> Thousand?

>> Yep.

>> Okay. >> $12,200?

>> School uh yes, my wife's school loan, yeah. >> Okay, cool. >> Okay. >> And how's the arrangement with Grandma going?

>> Uh great. I mean, we had to swallow the humble pill, you know, lose some personal space, had a guest storage unit to throw some stuff in, but it's it's honestly been a huge blessing. >> How long are you going to do it?

>> Well, that's the question of the day for me, but um for now it's to finish paying off the school loans, hopefully save up enough for a family car, then start saving for a house.

>> Oh, that's a long timeline. >> be a That could be a minute. How much money do y'all bring in?

>> Uh so, I bring in about So, I have a day job and I do freelance photo and video work and I bring in about $4,500 a month. >> Okay. >> And is Mom home with kids or is she out working in the workforce? >> Mom's home with kids. She caretakes um

us on the side and she brings in about an extra $400 a month.

>> Okay. So, if your initial question is how long would should we continue to do this?

Um I think that I would aim to because how much have you paid off so far? You've got 12,000 to go. How much have you done before up until this point? How long did it take? >> So, we moved in December 1st. As of two

four weeks ago, two three weeks ago, we paid off 13,000 credit card debt.

>> Okay. Um

I I'm going to tell you what I would do.

I think that I I I admire when people are willing to sacrifice to win.

I think this is a This is an imposition on you um as a family and as a a married couple.

It's just really tough to stay in a position like this for long.

Um and so I would try to I would really try to cut it short. When do you think you'll have the 12,000 paid off?

>> Uh crunching numbers, I can do that in about 4 months. >> Okay. >> get more freelance work to come in, for sure I can expedite that.

>> I would not extend this to buying a new

car, saving for a down payment. I would not extend this that far because what this means is and we've gotten a couple of these calls today, so this is nothing on you.

Everything is a series of choices. And so for you guys, your careers are a series of choices, you know, starting a family and the amount of children is a series of choices. And how that affects your financial timeline is a result of that choice and thereby you're choosing that as well. And what I would hate is for you to pass that off onto grandma because it's part of you guys's choices.

Do you see what I'm saying? >> Oh, yeah. >> And even though she's probably like, "Oh, I'm so glad to have them. I get to be by my grandkids and da da da da da da." If you kind of flip the script for a moment and you go, "Well, if if I had a buddy or if I had a family member who was like, 'Hey, let me move in with you for a little while.

I want to pay off my debt. I want to save up for a car. You know, I want to get a down payment.'" You'd be like, "Hold up. Wait a Wait a Wait Wait Wait a second." So, there's a thin line between Do you see what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

>> You You've You've mentioned the family car by adding a having a third kid here in a few months is is that going to exceed your the cars y'all have?

>> Yes, so that's the problem is we only have two little four-seater sedans, so

we got to get a got to get a bigger vehicle, which we want to sell one of them anyway, so it kind of works out. >> I was going to say yeah, it I I would save up the cash and the discipline you're going to have to you and your wife are going to put on the table here is 100% you're going to want to go get a brand new Tahoe or a brand new Suburban or brand new minivan and y'all can afford that.

stains on the carpet or whatever, but that's what we can afford and we're going to pay cash for it and then we're not going to get ourselves further behind.

>> Yeah. >> And by the way, that's all good. It'll be it'll be good. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's a choice y'all are making. So this isn't a thing that's happening to y'all. It's like, no, we picked that minivan cuz we choose freedom as a family over shiny things that go down in value, right? >> And can I ask a question, Casey? I just want to make sure I'm understanding. You're living Are you When you say grandma, is it your kids' grandma? So like her mother or is it your your mother's grandmother?

>> Uh it's my wife's grandma, so it'd be my kids' great grandma.

>> Oh, wow. >> So y'all doing caretaking, too?

>> is that what Is that the arrangement?

>> Yeah, it's kind of a win-win where, you know, she became a widow in 2020, the house she can't keep up with. There's an upstairs, she can't even walk up the stairs. Um she's been lonely, depressed, so >> Okay, so it's not a bad deal. >> It's not bad. Yeah, okay, that that does make it a little different. How old is she?

>> Uh she's she's She'll be 80 this year.

>> Are you expecting to inherit this house?

>> No, we do not want it. No, absolutely not. There's a whole Yeah, I know. >> I was just trying to make I was just trying to see if there was any other parts to this. >> Jade, I can see a world where if with a caretaking arrangement, you can do this for three or four years. If if it works out for your family, y'all got the whole upstairs, you kind of have your own separate life, but y'all get to >> That feels different. I won't lie.

>> Yeah, and and she's brightened up once she gets to live with her great-grandkids. They have agreed every morning. So, she's definitely livened up more. Like I said, it's been it's been a great win-win. >> And that can be a really remarkable experience for young kids if there's just no toxicity and and, you know, you

know what I mean? It's not a It's not a gross arrangement. You all aren't living in a 3-2 and like it it's everybody's Everybody's got some space, but also everybody's involved in the caretaking. So, that can be pretty amazing.

>> Yeah, I think that is good. You know, I I'm going to go back on my ruling here and I'm going to say >> [laughter] >> that I'm okay with this as long as you guys are okay with this. It sounds like she's being served. It sounds like it's a good thing for your family.

And for that reason, yeah, I would ride it out and I'd go back Yeah, to your original plan of saving for a down payment. You know what's funny, John? Financially, um multigenerational households, a lot of times we're kind of like, "Yeah, get out of that." But, that used to be the way. >> That was That was the only way.

>> That was the only way. >> way, yeah. >> Is Is you group up with your folks and you're right, it's so good for kids and >> It's good for kids, good for for grandparents. And but you just got to you got to structure it and do it the right [music] way.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, [snorts] and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

>> So, if you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using every dollar. Trust me, it's more than just our budgeting app. Now, the plan is built right in. Baked right in.

I love that. You can track your progress, plus get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that'll help you free up more money and work the plan even faster.

Truly like having one of us in your pocket, walking with you every day, showing you the next step, and holding you accountable. So, start EveryDollar for free today by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, we got Julian in El Paso, Texas, on the line. What's up, Julian?

>> Oh, yes, I'm calling cuz I had a house fire in November of last year and the

insurance company is going to pay me some money to repair, but it's pretty severe. So, I'm wondering if I should use that check to just rebuild and do with the process and keep my normal monthly payment, or if I should take that check, pay off that mortgage for that home, and use the difference to put me and my son into a new place.

>> They're They're not paying you to rebuild the house?

>> Yes, that's the check it's for is for rebuilding the house. It's about $310,000, but with the war and all materials increasing rapidly, I'm they cut the check in November in December, excuse me.

So, I don't know if it'll still continue to cover the cost of the construction, honestly. And I'm kind of in panic mode after the fire, so I don't want to make any decisions >> Yeah. >> emotionally. >> Yeah. So, did everybody get out safe?

>> Yes. >> Can I just tell you, man? >> out safe. >> Yeah. >> I got the two dogs out. >> Good. You You got everybody out safe?

>> Yes. >> Can I just shout you out?

Good on you, Dad. That's what That's I hate to gender this, but that's what dads do, man. You run back in and you get everybody out. I'm proud of you.

>> Sure did. Sure did. >> That's good, man. Um and appreciate you recognizing inside your own chest, "Hey, I'm I'm still in fight or flight from that deal and I'm not making rational choices. I need to get some wisdom." And I want to shout you out, too.

That that That shows a level of >> the other day but I was watching one of your guys' videos the other day and I think Jade said, "Don't make emotions Don't make decisions emotionally charged." And I was like, "You know what? That's it. I have to call." >> All right. Well, I'm glad you did.

So, here's my Anytime I feel a certain way about a thing, I've got real big feelings about a thing that I think the first place I want to do is write down that feeling I have or the feelings. I got a bunch of them.

And the second thing I want to do is I want to go get real on the ground information.

I don't want to scroll the news sites who are screaming and yelling trying to get headlines, trying to capture my eyeballs because they are selling me my attention as a product.

I want to go talk to an actual contractor and get an actual bid or two or three or four on my actual home and get a cost estimate.

And once you're looking at the paper in front of you, my guess is your your next right step will be pretty clear.

Mhm. And you're going to have to pay off the mortgage anyway, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah, eventually. It was just in the loan process, so I had been doing

the 13 payments a year thing.

>> Mhm. Okay. >> What did you owe? >> Yeah, what do you owe on the house?

>> I have about I'd sent her a hundred thousand. I've gotten it under a hundred thousand. >> Where are y'all living right now?

>> Um the insurance company gets you like a temporary rental. >> Okay. >> But they only do it for like a year is what they're telling me. So, I'm like, "Okay, so I'm six months into my year.

My construction hasn't started cuz your contractors haven't done a lot of the pack out of my belongings and things that they're supposed to do, and I'm getting into panic mode again that since the no actions being taken

>> I I >> I'm going to >> But is the action to be taken something you should be doing, or is it something they're supposed to be doing?

>> No, it's one of their contractors that they're supposed to be sending in to pack out my house so that it is ready for a bid and and stuff like that.

>> Okay, so so you need a contractor their clock should not start until the house is ready to be worked on.

>> Is that how that works? >> I I don't >> That makes sense. >> know how that works, but that would be my legal argument is I I I want you to have a lot a a bid in hand ready to rock and roll the day that this stuff is done, but I don't think your clock should start until they have finished their work. >> Mhm.

>> Right?

>> Yeah, they give me a one-year lease in this temporary housing, so that's why I'm in a panic mode, you know?

>> Yeah, let's let's feel the panic and then let's you're not going to solve panic by thinking about panic. You're going to solve panic through and you're going to by going right through it. Action.

Okay? And if you hate this house, you're scared of this house, I would rather you um this may not be the wisest thing to do.

I'd rather you fix this house up, get it rebuilt, get it redone, get it clean as a whistle and then choose to sell it then cuz you're going to pay this thing off, you're going to have a burned down house on a lot that you own. You're going to have to do something with it, right? >> Mhm. Mhm. >> At some point the HOA is going to come sue you. Somebody's going to come like >> going to have to be rebuilt regardless.

>> have to do something with it.

And so what I would hate for you to do is to take this money, go buy something else, be responsible for two mortgages and then get a bill from the city that says, "Hey, you got to go deal with this burned out home." You can't just have a burned out house in the middle of a neighborhood, right? >> Yeah. And the reason it seemed okay to me is because I would only have one mortgage and it'd be substantially less because I would use that construction money instead to pay >> I know, but what we're saying is you can't just >> You can't just leave the lot burned there.

So what you're saying is out of the 310, you'd pay off the 100,000 and take the other 200 and buy something else.

>> Yes, and then what I would do with that is I would eventually, you know, go back to the house. They're they're pretty close to each other, the one that I'm eyeballing, and I would still continuously be working on it, but my I

hate trusting in contractors, mechanics, uh >> Oh, what money would you use?

>> I'd like to get my own contractor's license, honestly. >> Yeah, but but you're talking years.

>> Yeah, and how would you fund it if you've already spent the money on on a different home?

>> With my mortgage payment pretty much that I would need I wouldn't have.

>> Got it. Okay.

Yeah, I I'm with John. I think you're going to cause yourself more headache if you if you do it if you don't do it this way because now you're going to have to figure out well how long can this lot sit like this in in my neighborhood?

What does the HOA say? What does the city say? Right? You've got some you've got >> I'm afraid the city is going to come do it for you and they're going to send you a bill for $75,000.

>> Yeah, you've got your work cut out for you. Now I I don't even know if this is possible. So this is something you could research, but if you're like hey, I'll clean off the lot and I'll get it fresh.

Can we sell the lot >> Absolutely you could do that.

Sell to a developer, yeah. >> And then and then if they give you I don't know 100,000 for the lot, you take that and that that makes you clear with the mortgage company. You see what I'm saying? And now you can take >> I hadn't considered that.

>> That's that's where my mind is going, but again you're going to have to research and make sure that you have the ability to do that. I don't see why you wouldn't, but just do some due diligence on that, but it seems like you don't want to live there anymore and I totally understand that.

Does that make sense?

>> Mhm. >> But you're not the meta of what we're saying is you're not working with real information.

And I want you to go get I want you to do the work to go get real information and you can say I don't trust contractors and whatever.

You're going to have to deal with contractors. So call a couple of friends that you respect and um find a guy that or company or that you trust or that they trust, right?

>> Mhm. >> And find out how much it would cost to raise the build like this house to the ground. Find call a couple of real estate developers and ask them how much they would pay you just to walk away from the thing.

>> Okay. >> Right? >> And I only felt like I was locked into like those two options and then this is opening up a lot of ideas for me.

>> Good. >> But I want you to listen, stop thinking about ideas and start getting after it.

I think when you get some real data and some real information in front of you, you might find that you can re- like fix this house and by the way, get it all back up to code, the wiring, everything, get it all perfect how you want it.

Um and it might cost 150 grand and you might still have a bunch of extra money laying. Who knows? Who knows what the deal is? >> [music] >> Um >> The point is you've got op- you've got lots of options. >> Yeah. And I'd be on the phone with my insurance company >> [music] >> about them following through with their responsibilities.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey, George Kamel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all of those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start-to-finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseysolutions.com/realestate.

>> [music]

[music] >> All right, our Ramsey Show scripture and quote. >> [music] >> Second Timothy 2:15, also known as 2:15, says, "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. [music] >> John Carmack said, "Focus is a matter of deciding what things you're not going to

do." I know that's right, John.

>> And I'm sitting by my friend J A D E, otherwise known as Jade.

>> [laughter] >> Listen, when I said it, it gave me 2 Corinthians vibes, and so I needed to I needed to say it back the right [laughter] way.

>> I'm digging to read the Bible. I love IT. >> TO STOP. I DO READ IT, I PROMISE, [laughter] AND I also know how to say numbers.

>> I love 2 Corinthians. >> All right. Sean is in Spokane, Washington. Sean, please get us back on track. How can we help?

>> Hey, Jade, John. Pleasure to be talking with you. >> You too, man.

>> The the crux of my question is trying to really understand stork mode.

>> Ah. >> You got a kid coming?

>> Uh yeah, I do. Yeah, we are expecting.

>> Congrats. That's exciting.

>> Yeah, um baby is due in October.

>> Are you doing all right? >> Is it baby number one?

>> [laughter] >> Uh for for me, yes.

So this will be this will be baby one.

>> Okay. >> All right. >> [clears throat] >> Can I just tell you >> Yeah. >> your panic is real, your fear is real,

and I'm telling you on the other side of this thing, um like another chamber opened up in my heart that I didn't know existed. I did not know love like I thought I knew it.

So, buckle up, man. It's about to be the ride of your life. I'm excited for you.

>> Yeah, it's all good.

>> Thank you. Um I'm super excited, too. My wife is healthy, baby's healthy, so all

those good checkboxes are there.

>> Perfect. All you can ask for. >> Good. >> So, how can we help? You want to explain stork mode, huh? So, that means you guys what do you have going on? You've got some debt?

>> Uh so, backstory is 2 years ago we got

debt-free, and then last year we were all one income. My wife was working, she finished school, and so now we're back to two incomes.

Um and then now we're expecting.

So in terms of saving for the emergency fund, we're about two months in terms of

that savings total.

>> Baby step one or baby step two?

>> Uh >> Or I mean or baby step three. Okay, great. >> Yeah, so we're in we're in three with almost two months saved. >> Great.

>> Um her her desire, right? It's been a grind

for her two years now, would be to go on a trip to Italy. Go go explore

Europe. Place that she she's baby she's lived there previously and it would just be a joy for her to show me her stomping grounds and um you know, we take the whole family.

>> What's that cost? >> be I'm I'm I'm estimating between 15 to 18,000.

>> Okay. And when would you do that?

>> That would be um mid to late July.

>> Do you have time to save up that money by then?

>> Um we could cash flow it and then that

means we're not really saving in stork mode.

So I kind of wanted to get an idea of where this whole stork mode and >> Stork mode is is is Stork mode is something we tell folks like and I'll tell you especially as a first-time parent, if you're paying off debt and like you have a baby coming in six months, you can pause paying off debt and just put cash aside just to make sure if something happens, there's a NICU stay or there's an emergency section or something. I've got that I don't I'm not going to get us out of out of debt six months and then have to go all the way back six months.

So this cash is on the side just to make sure everybody gets home from the hospital and we didn't have to spend any extra money.

>> Does Does the money that you have saved, does that cover your out-of-pocket max for your family like for your for wife and baby?

>> Yes. >> And is there anything left over after that with what you have saved now?

>> Um maybe 10,000. >> Okay, that's a that's a pretty sweet spot. So So >> And is mom going to stay at home with the kiddo after or is she going to go back to work?

>> She'll be going back to work. >> Okay. So it's not like you're going from one income down to two.

I mean, I'm sorry, for two incomes down to one.

>> Yeah, correct. Yeah, we we both go back to work, you know. >> Okay. What's your living situation? Are you renting, owning?

>> Uh we're currently renting.

I'd love to own a home, maybe this time next year. >> Okay. Um uh you know, I think that you have the emergency fund that you need. I'd love for you to get at least to 3 months before you consider this because then you can officially kind of tick the box and say all right, we got we got through the three hardest steps.

And then if you want to move a little bit slower getting the 6 months because again, whether you have three to six months and this is for anybody listening, you you throw several things into the equation, right?

If you're single and you're the only one working, yeah, you need 6 months. Uh but if you have two working folks, you could opt for three or four months if you wanted to. Uh is everybody healthy? And that's the one part where for you guys, it's not that your wife is unhealthy, but she's in pregnancy mode which means there's a lot of variables there.

So I personally, I'm not going to lie to you, I love the idea of if you had 6 months saved, that would just personally make me feel great. Next on the list is, well, let me at least make sure I have out-of-pocket maximums covered and some extra money on the side just because when you go through pregnancy, hospital stays, there's there's extra meals that you need and there's, oh my gosh, I can't believe we didn't buy this one item that we really, really need, like, right? >> Are you I I I was stunned. I thought baby went to the bathroom once a day like a regular person.

I didn't know they went 400 times. Like, diapers. Whatever you have budgeted, quadruple it, right? Like, so things like that.

You they it just expenses come out of nowhere. >> Yeah, I'm all for trips, too. Um what's you guys' income?

>> Um combined, about 240.

>> 240. Um I think that in the parameter of

your income, like I said, I'd love for you to get to uh 3 months of expenses, and I think you probably can cash flow that. And I think that you can cash flow this trip. My My My thing for you would be it's got to be you can't touch the emergency fund for this whatsoever. It's got to be completely cash flowed. And

yeah, and it with with reasonable spending, I think that that's totally fine. >> Can I ask you one more question, brother? >> Please. >> Do you want to go on this trip?

It's just It's just you and me and a couple of million people listening.

>> I I I've never been.

And it's it seems it seems dreamy. I am

a spreadsheet guy, so I'm like I don't know. >> You're thinking about this is home This is down payment money, right?

>> Yeah, well, that's just it, right? You look forward in the next year, and it's like you know, that's 5% of what we're trying to put down on a home, maybe even 10, depending on where we land.

>> So, is is there is there a conversation to be had that you sit down and say, "I want to go to Italy, too. Sounds dreamy," to use your words.

Is there a a possibility that we wait till the little one is 18 months old?

And at that point, here's a here's a map, we have a home, and we cash flow this thing, we got an emergency fund, and we're just going to postpone this trip from trying to cram it in right now to I want to do this thing up right.

Is that a possibility?

>> I mean, yeah, I think about like I'm I'm over 6 ft, so I'm like I'm going to be crammed in that airline for 10 hours.

>> Yeah, I mean, I I've done that. I I've gone to Italy, but I've flown international and a I'm a big guy. Like it just kind of is, right? I mean >> I don't know. I'm going to play on the other side of this coin because this is your first baby. This is I think she's viewing this as this is our last this is

our last cuz listen, with an 18-month-old I wouldn't want to go I mean life changes in so many ways.

>> right?

>> Uh correct, yeah. >> How many does she have?

>> One. I have a stepson.

>> How how old is he?

>> Nine. >> Okay. >> So there's like at 9 years old they can go off with the grandparents or with the aunt or whatever. >> Or go with you. >> Yeah. But I just think she's seeing this as she knows that independence changes

greatly when you have a baby on your hip. So I I would try to figure out a

way that you can do a trip. Maybe the compromise is we don't spend as much or we don't go for as long or but I think

there's a way you can meet in the middle because the truth is you guys have a great income. Um you do have time to do the house.

There's no there's no rush for either of these. I just I wouldn't want you to miss out on um experiences too. Like as

you're getting financially stable and as you're Does that make sense? Cuz you're doing like you're on track. You're doing the things. You've paid off the debt. You've got the emergency fund. You've got all these other things in place. I just think that there is a level of enjoyment that you can have. Um I would probably say yeah, 15,000 not 18,000. But other than that, I think you guys are on the right track.

All right, guys. Thanks for hanging out with us this hour and remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily [music] with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

>> [music]

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## 124. Own Your Circumstances or They’ll Own You | February 18, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. The

phone number, jump in, it's8825-5225.

Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

Excited to be with you and we're ready to take your calls. Nancy gets us started off in Jackson, Mississippi.

Nancy, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I'm considering filing bankruptcy and I'm not sure if that's the right move for me right now.

>> Okay. Tell us why you're considering it.

My husband, who I've been separated from for about 2 years, he's going to be filing and I have 25,000 in credit card debt.

>> Do you mean filing for divorce? Is that what you're talking about? >> No bankruptcy. He's the one that wants to file for bankruptcy for himself.

>> Correct. >> Okay, gotcha. Okay, keep going.

Um, since we're separated, I'm taking care of all the bills and so the credit card bills have been a pretty good

amount each month. Um, so I'm considering it to take that load off, but in the future, I'd like to be able to still get home loans. I used to flip houses. I'd like to get back into that, but I don't know how much a bankruptcy will hurt me if I should just do

>> Okay. >> I mean, would you loan you money after going through a bankruptcy?

Probably not. >> Yeah. >> So, there's a better way out of this, Nancy. And I know it feels like the walls are coming in right now. You've got a lot of life happening. And so, step one is to look at some facts. So, fact number one, is your name on all these credit cards?

>> Um, the 25K my name is on debt is

separate that he's going to file for.

>> Good. Okay. So, is that your total debt or is there other debts as well?

>> That's my only debt for me personally.

Okay, great. And what is your income?

>> It really varies and fluctuates. I go from anywhere a,000 a month to 3,000 a

month. >> What do you do?

>> I'm a transaction coordinator for a real estate company and I am a photographer.

>> Do you have any um control over that

variation from one to three a month? In other words, uh more effort or uh just

being more available. Do you have any control over that?

>> I don't. It depends. I I work basically per contract and I never know how many contracts I'm going to get each month. >> And is there an exclusivity? I just don't understand that role in that industry. Well, so forgive me if that's a silly question, but is there any exclusivity uh to where you couldn't do that for another uh broker or something like that in order to get more contracts and more money?

Um, I'm not really sure. I've been loyal

to this company because they're promising in a few months that I'll be moved to a full-time salary position,

>> okay? >> But it's not guaranteed. It's based on his eb and flow of his company, >> right? And I appreciate loyalty. Love loyalty. Don't want to dismiss loyalty.

But if there's no exclusivity and it's not a conflict of interest is the is the meat of my question, then in other

words, an ethic, then you could still

work for them and still step into this full-time role if it materializes, but you could also start getting more contracts and thus more money. And I'm I'm jumping in here. George is going to pick back up, but I'm I'm trying to address the income issue. And so you

need to look into that. By the end of this week, at the latest, you're finding out the answer to my question. Do you still understand my question?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Because that would theoretically be uh maybe the quickest way or the best way to get more income. Am I tracking, George? >> Yeah. >> And if not, that's what I'm seeing here.

>> Pick up a job >> because of what George is about to tell you. So Nancy, like right now is when we

need to increase our income. And I mean urgently. And and George, why? Well, what does she do with this increased income? >> Well, if you think about it this way, Nancy, two grand a month towards your credit card, that's done in a year, >> right? So, now you're going, "Sweet.

Must be nice to have two grand extra on top of your bills." It is nice. And that's where if you made $4,000 consistently and your bills were 2,000, well, now we have a fighting chance to get out of this.

So the next question is why are you covering all of the bills for the household? >> My husband's currently unemployed.

>> And why is that?

>> Well, he's been using drugs for the last four years and so we've been separated for the last two years.

>> Is he and he's still living at the house? >> No, >> he's not living at the house.

>> No. >> Okay. So, what bills are you responsible for uh for him?

for him? None. Just the one. Just I just pay the mortgage, the all the utilities, and Okay. my credit card. >> So, you've essentially been on your own financially for how long?

>> Um 100% since May. Um we've separated

multiple times. So, this time I think >> And it's over for good.

>> We don't know yet. Um but I'm I I'm

leaning that way without a miracle from God. >> And do you have any kids?

I have two, a three and a four-year-old.

>> And they're at your house.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> And the four-year-old is special needs, which is my reluctance to Okay.

>> take on more hours.

>> I totally understand. Didn't know that.

>> Uh but but

what we're trying to help you understand is you don't need bankruptcy.

>> I would rather see these cars go to collections and you settle them later than you go through a bankruptcy. It will do less damage to your financial future. So, what you need to focus on now, >> yeah, >> is your four walls, Nancy. That means you put food on the table. You're going to cover all your utility bills, the mortgage, all of that comes first before

you pay the credit card company a single dime. And if you can't pay them that month cuz you had to put food on the table, I don't care about the credit card companies hunting you down, being upset, calling you, whatever. They're going to threaten to sue you. It's going to go to collections. If that's what it takes in this season, that's what it takes. But the bankruptcy is going to cost you money. Money that you don't have right now, >> right? >> So, it's actually cheaper and more financially wise to choose the other.

You know, this is a rock and a hard place. And so, we're just going to choose the rock right now, which is the credit card debt.

>> So, stick with it. Make the minimum payments if you can. Make extra when and if you can, and soon you're going to be out of this. This is not a forever season. Right.

>> Right. >> Do the children have child care while you're at work? How does that how does that work for you guys? >> I work remote, so I'm I take care of them all the time.

>> Okay. So, what might be helpful is to find a full-time remote role that is sooner. And you might need to talk to your to your boss and say, "Hey, listen.

I'm going through one of the hardest seasons of my life. I need some stability right now with my income. I can't risk having a $1,000 month >> and therefore I need to go find XYZ job." Now, they might fasttrack and go, "Hey, you know what? We'll start you full-time now if you can handle it." Yeah, >> but you don't have the option of just waiting around hoping for this job to materialize.

>> And Nancy, while you're waiting on that miracle, I'm also going to throw out there, you got to get some community. If you don't have community, go get involved in a church. It's not the worst thing in the world.

This marriage is completely up in the air. We totally understand. Uh, but you

have got while praying for a miracle, hoping for a miracle, you've got to act as though you're divorced in in the sense of taking care of you and the kiddos. And you've been doing that, by the way, and you're amazing. But it's okay for you to raise your hand and say, "I need some more help." And uh and so

we just hit you with a lot. Um, but you're going to be okay. And and bankruptcy is not the plan for you. I think George gave you really tactical advice and we're rooting for you and we're very very sorry that you've been put in this very difficult situation.

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All

right, let's go to Ashley in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Ashley, how can we help?

>> Hi there. Um, so nice to talk to you

all. I'm so excited. Um, so first off, and most importantly, my boyfriend and I just had a baby. Um he's 11 weeks old right now. Um boyfriend is a car

salesman and has not been making sales.

So I have been paying all of our bills

and I can barely cover or I can just cover our bills now. Um and we've been doing okay. But when I need to go back to work in just about a month, we're sending the baby to daycare. And in the area we live in daycare can be up to $3,000 a month and there's no way I can

afford it anymore. So, with uh my

boyfriend not making any sales and we don't know when and if he's going to start making sales, I'm really struggling to figure out how we're going to make it. >> Okay. A lot here. So, >> yes. >> What Let's talk about your income first, just because you're not married, and I know your boyfriend is the father of the baby, and I appreciate all that. We'll get to him in a moment. I got thoughts on that whole situation.

>> Boy, do I have some thoughts, George.

Um, but what what what's going on with you and your ability to make more money?

What what's happening there? I understand the I understand the uh the outrageous cost of child care, believe me, but what has changed? Because the way you kind of laid that out, I'd like to know what's behind all this.

>> So, um, I I make So, I make $145,000 a

year. Um, I work in tech.

>> Fantastic. >> Yeah. So, and I I live in um the city is

pretty expensive. Um and it's a very

long story behind this that I don't want to get into, but basically I live in my dad's house and when my boyfriend moved in actually just like pretty recently,

um my dad increased the the rent of this

house. So, um, it's now $3,000 a month,

which isn't astronomical, but with all

the bills and, um, >> what was it prior to?

>> It was, uh, 2,200 prior to that.

>> Okay. So, you had an $800 increase there. Uh, what's your debt situation?

>> Uh, I stupidly have a car that, um, I

still owe about $15,000 on it. Um, but

that's it. No credit card debt or or school loans or anything else. >> Okay. So, George, a quick analysis.

She's making good income. Very good.

>> Your income is great. It sounds like he's about to be a stay-at-home dad if he doesn't come up with income quick.

>> That's >> Is he capable of that? Would you even trust him with that role?

>> That is the the problem. I I wouldn't

necessarily trust him and we've been having a lot of relationship issues.

>> Okay. Rule number one, don't have a baby with someone you wouldn't trust to watch your child. >> Yeah. But it was it was not We did not plan it this way.

>> Okay. Well, okay. Whoa. Whoa. Okay. All right. >> So much so much so much there. And okay, I'm not going to dive into that lane, although I get it.

>> And to that point, he shouldn't be your boyfriend.

He because of that moment

uh is the father of this child, but you

don't trust him to actually be the father of the child. Let's just be really really gut level honest. you should dump this guy really soon.

Multiple reasons why. And I'll and I'll give it back to George and we'll start walking through some money stuff. But number one, you didn't want to have a relationship with the guy. Number two, you didn't want to have a kid with him.

Number three, you don't trust him to actually watch your kid.

Number four, he can't sell cars.

>> So, he's dead weight right now. this guy doesn't need to be in a relationship with you and he certainly does not need to be in that house with you.

>> So, I would legitimately dump him for those four reasons. And by the way, you

can quote me and he can go watch this segment on YouTube. And I'm not trying to be unkind to him. I just He needs a

wakeup call of adulthood. And the wakeup

call is you going, "Buddy, as George said, you're dead weight. You're out." So, he's done done. Gone. And And maybe he wakes up.

Uh but but we've got to make plans as though he's not going to wake up. Okay.

There's my there there's your you've got to make this decision in light of the money advice that we're going to give you. All right, George. Bringing you in here on $145,000, $15,000 worth of debt.

>> Yeah. Okay. You you called in saying that you don't have enough to cover the bills or it's getting tight. I want to challenge the expenses here because >> Yeah. Can you rent for $1,600 a month in

your area? >> Um, so that that is the another like the

complication that I would be a whole separate call that I kind of don't I think we probably don't have time to get into. >> You're a prisoner in this home, aren't you? >> Basically, yes. >> I had a feeling dad needs you to pay this money. >> Oh, he actually does it. Dad could get somebody else. >> Yeah, it's not your problem. What's actually keeping you in this house?

Um, it's such a long story. I I >> You don't have to give us You don't have to give us a long story, but think twice if you're okay, Ashley. We just want to know. >> I am fine. It's I'll try to say it in in

20 seconds. So, um, my dad bought the house a bunch of years ago. It's appreciated in value significantly. Um, like doubled in value, like it's it's a

multi-million dollar house. Um, he is in

very poor health. He's actually in the hospital right now for the third time in the last two weeks. Um, and he says if

he sells the house, he would incur a massive uh tax bill and if we wait until he passes away, then we won't incur the tax bill. >> You'll inherit it. >> So, yes. >> Yeah. With a step up in basis.

>> Correct. Correct. >> That is true. That still doesn't mean that we can sit paying three grand a month forever. So, I wonder if you kicked the deadbeat boyfriend out and get some roommates. That's George's uh go-to. >> I like that plan.

>> Now, you don't need to sell the car. I think you can pay it off aggressively, but you're bringing home what, eight or nine grand a month?

>> Yeah. >> Have you found a budget?

>> Uh, I do. Yeah, I've I'm pretty um

buttoned up about it. I've >> So, what's the car payment?

>> Um car payment is 350. I'm currently

paying 700 per month on it to knock out the principal. We're looking at these things here. Trying to speed this up. George, I've got 3,000 in rent. I've got

3,000 in child care.

>> Future daycare. >> I got 350 in a car payment. So, we're right at 6,500 immediately. >> You got 1,500 left to pay for gas, food,

insurance, >> and a tiny bit of fun money.

>> Yeah. >> Now, that's not like amazing, but it's a

good start, and it gets you to survive and thrive on your own. But >> but George, what's the quick fix on that? And I think we've already talked about it. I mean, she can make some moves. A roommate. >> Yeah. If you can get this rent down, you're gonna free up. I mean, think about it. You split it with two people.

Now, you're talking three of you in there. You're paying a,000 bucks a month, if not more. You might charge them more than, you know, a,000 bucks for their spot. And I'm going to I' I've given this advice a million times and people may be sick of it, but I think instead of the traditional institutional child care, can you find an a retired grandmother who's bored out of her mind and has got all the motherly instincts?

We did this with our kids when my wife was working full-time and it's a fraction of the cost.

>> If you're paying three grand in child

care, what if you paid 1,500? And I'm not telling you that's the number, but I'm just we're trying to give you real solutions here between a roommate and a awesome grandmother in your community would love to take care of your little guy. That's slashing your cost in half.

>> Yeah. >> And even shared nanny situations exist

in your neighborhood. >> We we break up or at least kick dead beat out. I'm not telling you to break up with him at this point, although I would. Uh but if we kick him out and then hopefully he wakes up, starts selling something.

>> The sad part is we just have to assume that it's going to be status quo and that he's not going to contribute. You have to craft a plan forward with or without him. And right now it's without him. >> What did I leave out, George? What else would you do on that reducing cost now that you know what her margin is?

>> I mean, you're going to have to keep this job you have, hopefully it's steady, and work on getting rid of all the expenses in your life. The car is one of them. Bringing down the rent. I can't, you know, solve the daycare problem instantly, but I think you at least have more options than you think.

And even then, you got some room left over, which isn't a terrible thing. So, I would use every dollar, craft a budget tonight, and then go, what does the next 6 months look like? What does the next year or two look like? And hopefully, this is just a season, and you'll be out of it.

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>> All right, let's go to Chelsea in Kansas City. Chelsea, how can we help today?

Hi, I needed um just some kind of input.

I've been able to successfully pay down since July over 12,000 in debt.

>> Way to go. >> Um I've been working super hard at it.

>> That's awesome.

>> Um but I have so I move I did like a credit card balance transfer that had no interest. So I have no interest until October. And so I still have 6,000 remaining on that. Do you guys have any input on how I can pay down the rest of that 6,000 by October? Because what I've

been doing is $100 each week and any extra left over from my paychecks, I take like either half or most of it towards that credit card to get it as low as possible. So that way I can

consolidate as much of that as possible.

>> So what has that been averaging out to?

Um, probably around 450 to 500 uh a month.

>> Okay. And you said you want to know how could you pay the rest of the 6,000 off by October.

>> Yes, that's my that's my goal at least to try and get to.

>> It should be more than a goal. It should be this is on fire because what's going to happen is they're going to back charge you 29% APR which is exactly why they offer these 0% cards. They're betting against you, Chelsea.

hoping you don't pay it in time. >> Yeah. You know, I'd go old school. This is the way I I'm wired. So, this may not work for you. Okay. But the first thing that came to my mind is I would take how many months that is. So, what is it? Seven months from now or six.

>> Um I think six now.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, that's February. Five weeks a month. >> That's exactly what I do. The old school division and that's what it's going to take. But your question was how? But we

got to first get with the what? And so it's a it's a minimum of you know I mean that's your average a thousand bucks a month. So how do I make an additional thousand bucks a month is is essentially

the question I would then be asking and I think that's doable. How much do you make in a month?

>> I bring home4100 a month.

>> What do you do for a living?

>> I do insurance.

>> Well George is the budget king here. And so he if anybody could crunch it and try to find that case or some of it he he could and I'll give it to him.

>> But I would say George I think she also needs to look at a second job uh selling

everything kind of the basic stuff we've said for decades. And I just think Chelsea that's your number. And I I think if you circle $1,000 and put it on your mirror, your refrigerator, put it all over the house and it becomes so much a focus for you >> visceral. you will make that additional thousand bucks a month.

And I think if you gamify it, it I think it's something you'll look back on 30 years from now and go that was one of the most inspiring things I ever did. That's my two cents on this.

>> Uh, no, not now. I was previously had

Bitcoin and I had profited $1,500. So, I went ahead and withdrew that just at the highest peak that it had in October.

>> Good. >> Um, you put that on that and put that on this credit card. Yeah. >> Okay. Do you have anything else in savings?

>> Um, technically I don't have a savings, but I always keep a month and a half's worth of my rent in a separate checking account. So, my rent only goes in and out of that. I have my paycheck split.

>> Okay. And what are your total expenses to cover your rent, food, utilities, all of that? >> Um, around 3,200.

>> Okay. Hence it being pretty tight at the end of the month to throw money at this credit card. So that's where we need to figure out, hey, how much of this 3200 can we free up? And that might mean we

are not eating out. We're going to get real intense about budgeting. Every single penny is going to be accounted for. And we're going to get a second job. >> All of that. I mean, you you don't need a huge number to throw a,000 at the debt. You need like a few extra $100

>> cuz you said you're you're able to throw, you know, 500 bucks a month right now. So you need an extra 500 on top of that. >> There you go. So that becomes the number.

And so you can do the math and go, "Hey, if I get a job making 15 an hour, here's how many hours I need to work. If I can do whatever Uber Eats, Instacart, Door Dash, whatever the thing is, if I do it this many hours, here's how much I can reliably make." >> Yeah.

>> You have time on your side and energy.

Something Ken and I do not have.

>> Not true. Speak for yourself. You're very inactive and and you have no gluten, so that's your problem.

>> This is about Chelsea. Let's other hand, I'm very active and I'm okay with gluten. I have plenty of energy. Thank you very much, George.

>> We're having fun. We're having fun. >> Somewhat young. I probably sound younger than I am. >> How old are you? How old are you?

>> I'll be 35.

>> Trust me, that's young. Go ahead, George. >> I'm your elder. >> Take the shot here. I'm >> No, I'm not going to mention Ken's age on air. >> You're pulling me into the low energy deal. I don't know about that.

>> But can you do this for 6 months? That's what we're asking. Can you make the sacrifice to become completely >> 100 extra bucks a month? That's the challenge. Can you do it?

>> I I I think so.

>> I need a little more confidence. >> I don't like that answer. I don't like that answer.

>> I I feel like I can. I definitely could be eating out less. Uh because that's been about four to five times a month.

So, I could cut that down to maybe once.

>> What if you went for a Z month as far as

spending on things that weren't absolutely necessary to survival? And I promise you, eating out is not necessary to survival as much as it can feel like it.

Yeah, I definitely I definitely could do that >> and then do it then try it the next month and then it becomes a game. It's addictive and you want to see how much money you can save and then all that money going towards the credit cards will validate the sacrifice.

>> That's what you need right now. You need to see some progress and you thought you saw progress with the 0% balance transfer. What really happened is you paid the credit card company 3 to 5% of the balance for the pleasure of delaying the interest.

That's all it was. >> Right. cuz yeah, I've been cuz well doing that because my credit card payment was so high, I was able to

um basically eliminate the interest and actually make a dent in it.

>> Yeah. Which is great. I'm I'm happy that you're able to make more progress than you would have, but we need to take advantage of that right now and go, okay, we're actually going to attack debt harder because of this, not get comfortable because the interest isn't racking up. Because I promise you, behind the scenes it is. And October 1st, it's going to hit and that interest will we'll charge you. >> What's the four to five times eating out a month? What do you think that adds up to?

>> Probably a couple hundred.

>> Looks like we just found our debt payoff money. >> Wow. >> I I think so. >> So, your side hustle has become not eating out. >> Yeah. But I still want to see you I still I want to see you uh not just

>> hold back activity. I want you to do something too. and and that intensity uh

combined with sacrifice. So effort plus sacrifice is what I think is is a really powerful combo. >> That's a good combo right there. That's a good formula for life. >> What? >> Effort plus sacrifice.

>> Yeah. >> If you just do those two things, you will be successful. >> I think I think you're right. I think uh I didn't plan to but that's true. It's it's actually true in any area of your life. Think about relationships.

Put in the effort, guys, to be a good

husband.

Sacrifice as much as you can when you can, how you can. >> That looks like serving in a relationship. >> That's a big win relationally, physically.

>> I mean, you know, on the pickle ball court, >> there's pickle ball, there's the weight room. Two things that you would do well to introduce into your life. >> I would not darken the door of a weight room. I'll tell you that right now.

>> What are the chances that I get you in the wait room in this 2026?

>> Uh, if we filmed it for content, I think we could do it. >> Okay. As long as I've always had a vow to my wife and kids and close friends that I'm never going to post anything on social media where I'm working out, I think that is tacky. I don't like it. Uh

but if it's you and I'm holding the phone and watching you and and encouraging you to get that five pound dumbbell curled up on each side, >> each side that would be I think that's the content that America needs to see.

>> That's good. I much prefer a financial sacrifice and effort. I can do that all day long. Yeah, but see that's my point.

That to you is not a whole lot of effort. You are you are naturally tight and frugal. >> Tell my muscles. >> You are you're tight there too, but that's your anxiety. That's a whole another issue. All right. So, can I get this on the record? >> Yeah. >> I'll talk to your social media person.

>> Yep. >> I'll talk to mine. >> You will be my personal trainer for a day. >> I'm just going to be there to cheer you on and try to make it fun. >> No, it's a competition. >> America's going to need some comments that they hear while you're in workout gear. Number one. Number two, doing workout moves. >> I guess we got to go shopping for workout gear now. Not sure I own that.

>> You don't have any workout gear.

>> I try not to cuz if I have it, I'll probably work out. >> I thought I saw it on the I thought I saw it on the Ramsay cruise.

>> I Yeah, I was in there. That was only to get to the sauna. You got to go through the gym.

>> Folks, don't go anywhere. We got more

coaching calls and George is going to do some push-ups real quick. Get his energy up.

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>> Hey, um I'm am really just wondering, am

I being a little bit too aggressive on

my uh student loan debt repayment?

>> Are you starving?

>> No, >> probably not. But give us the numbers.

Uh, so my wife and I have

about 70,000 total in student loan debt.

>> Okay. >> Um, since March of 2025, I've made um almost $25,000

in payments. Um,

and I guess I just worry, is is that too

much to be paying when I only have a

$1,000 emergency fund with a wife and a

2-year-old?

>> Well, you've been doing this for a year now. How's it been going? You like the progress you've been making?

>> Yeah, I I do like the progress. I'm

almost done.

I've almost completely paid off my bachelor's degree loans. Um, so I really

just have a my master's degree loan and

then my wife's uh bachelor's loan, which

is um she she might have the uh public

service loan forgiveness as a teacher.

So, >> all right. So, let's let's just back into this a little bit. So, the $2,000 a month is essentially what you've been putting away, correct? to the loans.

>> Correct. It was a lot less

>> at first. >> But is that a zerobased budget? Is that 2,000? There's no other margin left. Is that essentially your margin if we were to look at your budget?

>> Uh, no. There there's probably much more

margin. >> You could put three or four towards the debts a month.

>> Yeah. >> So there's your answer. By definition, you're not being aggressive enough. Oh boy. I had a feeling you were going to come off the top ropes on that one. >> I just I mean I'm looking at these numbers and going you're going to do this for three more years at this rate cuz I think yes that's too much sacrifs

and your income. >> I agree. I was just trying to give him enough time to let it sink in that he's not doing that that you have margin. So this is not reckless behavior. That's how you position the question, right?

Too aggressive. In other words, unwise.

But to George's point, >> I would have told you it was unwise to go $100,000 into student loan debt for a masters. But you know, we're on the other side of this. You guys are using the degrees, right? You have great careers.

>> Uh yeah, I make a well above average

salary and she probably makes above average teacher salary.

>> Great. So, let's and George, I want to take him somewhere here now because we we've answered your question and then George has made a really strong challenge, but I want to get to the emotion behind your question, okay? And I want George actually I'm going to ask him a question and George weigh in on this. Okay? So, Nick, here's the deal.

If something were to happen, a major emergency, George, let's have some fun.

pick a garden variety emergency that would be more than $1,000. That would happen for someone like him and he would have to come up with more than $1,000 that he has. >> It's summertime in Richmond, Virginia.

Come July, HVAC goes out and they go, "Hey, man, you got to replace this whole thing. It's going to be $6,000." >> All right. So, Nick, that's the scenario. Based on what we all know now,

what would you do?

Um, probably just make minimum student

loan payments and just pay the that

payment up front. >> Boom. You take your thousand from the emergency fund and take your next paycheck and you go, "All right, we're going to get this done. We're going to cash flow it and then we're going to hit play on the baby steps once we're through this mess." Now, the reason that I walked you through that, Nick, is because I want you to deal with the emotion that was behind that question that you asked us.

Yes, >> you have fear that you're being irresponsible and couldn't take care of wife and baby if something were to happen that would go above and beyond the thousand emergency fund. True or false?

>> Yeah, that's accurate. >> Okay. And so we just walk through it.

>> Yeah. So, it's important to not just call into a show like this and get our logical and philosophical and and methodology answer, which we gave you, but not address the emotion. Because if you don't address the emotion and do that exercise, it goes in one ear, out the other. That's what I find.

Isn't that true, George? There's there's a powerful emotion here. >> You You don't want to just pay off debt more aggressively because George and Ken told you to.

$70,000 owed to these student loan companies and you want that income back in your life, don't you? How good is that going to feel when those payments don't leave anymore?

>> Yeah, it probably will feel very good.

And I really I started off with $360

payments and then these recent months have been more like $3,700.

>> Amazing. Yeah, great job. Keep it up.

So, there it is. Um, you know what to do

now, so go do it. Let's go to Hannah in Cincinnati, Ohio. Hannah, how can we help? >> Hi. So, um, me and my husband, we

inherited a house from his family. Um,

and we have another house. we have a mortgage on. So, we're in the process of selling this house in the next couple months. And with paying off all of our debts and paying family back, we're going to have an extra like $100,000 and we're kind of torn between I want to pay off the mortgage on our current house. Just pay $100,000 to that. He

wants to save the money and invest it um

and um just kind of make money from that

point. So, we're kind of at a crossroads of what to do with this extra money that we're going to have. So, at that point, you guys will be in baby steps four, five, six, no debt with a fully funded emergency fund and $100,000.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Well, what if you split the difference?

>> What if you max out two Roth IAS for the

year and you put a bunch toward the mortgage and you enjoy some of it and give some of it? So, I I'll add to the list of things to do with this $100,000.

>> Oh, yeah. That would also >> Would that make everyone happy? You got 15K growing with compound growth for retirement. You put another 70 or 60 on

the mortgage and that still leaves you with some fund money.

>> Yeah, cuz I mean so cuz I they're saying that we could sell it for like 280 to 290 and obviously we

have to pay taxes and stuff. We're paying his grandpa back cuz it's his grandpa's house and he's just giving it to us. Um, and then we took out a small

loan to fix the house up because we just don't have we have a a a 13-month-old, so we don't have the time to fix it. So, paying off all that, paying off my student loans, car, a couple credit cards where yeah, it's like an extra I think like 125,000. So, I said like let's just >> Hey, while we're at it, let's put, you know, 5 or 10,000 in a 529 plan for that little 13-month-old.

>> Oh, yeah. That was also part of like the discussion of like we need to start doing something for him for school in the future. Um, so we're in a very like

thankful, grateful situation financially. So I'm just like, okay, what will give us the most bang out of our buck of, hey, let's do this smartly and smartly and the best way possible.

So >> well, either way, everything you're doing is building wealth. Whether that's paying down the mortgage, that's building equity, and it's a forced savings plan with a fixed rate that you're making, which is your mortgage interest rate. So it's not lost. The money's not locked up in the house forever. That's part of your net worth.

That's part of your estate. And so that's part of it. Now, we're going to invest over here. We're going to get some compound growth going. You guys are young, right?

>> Um I am 30. I'll be 31 in a few weeks.

And he is 28. Yeah, 28.

>> So, think about that. If you guys are in your early 30s with a paid for house, are you going to be okay in retirement?

>> Um, yeah. I am I have almost 100,000 and

he has like 120,000.

>> Oh, that's great. So lay out the numbers. Your income 15% or more once the house is paid off, invested. You guys will have millions and millions of dollars well before you even retire.

And so I'm not concerned about building wealth necessarily. I just think we need to split the difference to enjoy life now and build wealth for the future. And so I think splitting the difference will make everyone a little bit upset. And that might be the solution.

George, you you need your own judge show where they come to you with one idea and you say, "I'll tell you what.

I'm going to raise you five different ideas and everybody's so happy. George, put me in a gown.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us.88255225

is the phone number. Jessica is up in Seattle, Washington. Jessica, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Uh, thank you so much for having me.

>> Sure. >> Um, so, uh, I am a newly single mom. Uh,

I just left a domestic violence situation >> and um I'm a mom of two, so I'm kind of trying to figure out what should I prioritize first.

>> Well, first of all, we're so sorry you've been through this and and we're glad that you're safe. I hope you're safe. Yes.

>> Yes. >> Okay, great. >> What does life look like now for you?

You guys, you and the kids.

>> So, uh, currently we are in a um a shelter. Uh, and I am uh going to get

assistance with housing assistance. So, I'm looking for a for a rental right

now. But how that looks like um it's a

two-year program. So, each each um every 6 months uh they they start with the 100% covering rental up to um uh just

independent. So, the 100 75 50 and 25.

So, right now I'm kind of a I'm unemployed. I only have the $1,000 savings. Um trying to figure out what to do now. I'm looking into going back to school.

>> Do you have any debt?

>> Uh 20,000.

>> What is that comprised of?

>> Uh it's um personal loans, credit cards,

and but a big chunk of it is um uh

probably about 15,000 is in student debt. >> Okay. And what kind of schooling are you considering? >> Uh, so I'm I'm trying to maximize my

time with housing assistance.

So I'm looking into going to school for dental hygienist.

>> How long of a program is that?

>> Uh, if I go to a trade school, that would be about two years.

>> And how much would that cost?

>> 100,000. >> Okay, that's not an option.

So, is there a cheaper option to get into dental hy hygienist work? I'm guessing not, but you were about ready to say something else and I cut you off.

>> Uh, there I've been exploring like community community college. Uh, there

is a program, but I would have to do

cuz I I have my associates, so that would I would just have to take some science classes and that would be about a year and a half. >> And what's the cost on that? Uh, that

one is about 15,000, but I would have to do five a year and a half of prerequisites and then the two-year program.

>> Okay. So, 3 years 15,000 or two years

100,000.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I just want to make sure that we put this out here. Let's take the two years$100,000 off the table. >> Okay. Mhm. >> Because and let's also press pause on this idea of of the $15,000 plan. That's

doable, but that to me is a pause and we get to that later. We need to get ourselves employed, get ourselves out of

the government housing and the assistance and and and and get rid of

all this debt and and George is going to walk through the baby steps, but I'm just I want to talk I just I want to cut off this idea of I need to go to school right now while I'm in this shelter situation. No. What you need to do is

get employed if they'll allow that. Do they allow that? If you were to get full-time employment, would they kick you out?

Uh, I believe not. It's um, it's Yeah.

>> Okay, great. So, all I'm trying to do is George is going to walk you through the get out of debt and and get stable financially, but I I really want you to hear me on this. School is down the road

and and and that option is still going to be there, but the $15,000 option I like. >> All right. Uh, why in the world I'd rather spend a little bit more time and way less money on that. And so, that's that's done.

We're not going to touch that right now. You have bigger emergencies, George. So, Jessica, you've got $1,000 starter emergency fund. You do have a bunch of debt to clean up.

So, to Ken's point, if you could work full-time right now and clean up the debt, get a fully funded emergency fund now, it's going to be a whole lot easier to cash flow any program that you go through.

>> Yes. >> What do you do for child care if you're working full-time?

Uh my my my children go to school. >> Oh, great. Okay. So, they're taken care of during the day. You can go work. Do you have reliable transportation?

>> I do. Yes. >> Fantastic. Okay. You are ahead of the curve in a lot of ways. That's awesome.

So, you said, "What do I prioritize?" Number one is your own health and safety and your kids' health and safety. We've got that covered.

>> Yes. >> Number two, we're going to protect our four walls. That's our housing, food, utilities, transportation. You have housing covered. Can you pay for all of the rest currently?

>> Um I I'm going to be um No, I'm going to

be honest now. >> So, we need income ASAP in order to just even even with housing covered, which is a huge blessing, we still have other needs. >> Yes. And so we're going to do whatever we can working right now, even if it's a part-time retail job or hospitality job,

to bring in some money to cover the gap while we look for something that's full-time.

>> Okay? >> And that means you're going to make minimum payments on the debts if you even can. And don't feel bad if you can.

If you can only cover your four walls and that's how you need to get by right now, then it's okay.

I'd rather you not fall behind on payments, but your yourself and your house need to come first. You see where we're going here?

>> Yes. >> So, it's kind of a priority list of me, kids, the house. Now, we can focus on the other things. And that's only going to come through income like Ken talked about. So, have you looked at jobs in your area that would make sense for someone with your experience?

Uh we live in a rural area so

um there's not much locally probably the closest about an hour and um for I guess

support with my children. I'm pretty much the only one so I don't want to be too far out. >> And you're stuck in this area because of their school. Is that what what's going on? >> Yeah. >> And the housing.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. But let's not All right. Let's just let's just brainstorm really quickly. Okay. So, are there any kind of big box stores like big stores that are employing hourly weight workers?

>> Um, probably about 45 minutes away. Yes.

>> Okay. Is that too far or could we make the 45 minutes work?

>> Um, I can make it work. I just I think just for emergencies and you know, anything. >> But you know what? I'm telling you, mama bears like you have have had to face far worse. And I believe in you.

>> Yeah. I'm just telling you right now, you cannot have this mindset of, well, I live in a rural area and there's not a lot here. Does it matter? I have an ignorant question. What do other people who live around you do for work?

>> I don't I don't know. There's a lot of big houses, so >> start talking to people. >> I would start up some conversations.

Wait a second. Wait, wait. I just got an idea. You said there's a lot of big houses. >> Those houses need to be cleaned. >> Those houses need to be cleaned. And I'll guarantee you, I know the type of people that live in those houses. They're usually unhappy with somebody that's working for them. And if you come in and do something better than them, then you are going to get the job.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's a great I actually used to do that. I used to go >> perfect. You know what's great about that is you're minutes away from the kiddos if something were to arise.

You're in a safe environment.

>> Yep. And it's flexible. >> It's flexible. They don't care. They just need it cleaned. >> And you can charge 200 a cleaning, couldn't you? >> Yeah. >> All right. Let's go >> do five of those a week. That's one cleaning a day. It's a,000 bucks a week.

That changes your life.

>> Yeah. >> I would start knocking on some doors and just say, "Hey, listen. I I live in the area. I do house cleaning. Here's my card. Go get them printed cheap at your local, you know, Staples or whatever's nearby." >> Jessica, this is not even in in the category of would you do whatever it takes. We know you would. This is something that's doable. It's not demeaning. It's safe. Go start knocking on doors. Talk to everybody that'll listen.

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All right, Sarah is up next in Phoenix.

Sarah, how can we help?

>> Hi there. Um, my husband is getting laid

off in May. He's been applying for jobs

for almost a year now, it feels like.

and he works in ministry. So that's why

we've been he's been applying for jobs for a while already because he just not making enough money for our family of five. >> Okay. >> Um he makes like $45,000 a year and

we've been able to stretch that for a while, but there's things that we haven't been able to have like life insurance, can't pay for our debt, just lots of things. um >> he just can't find he can't find a job and it's getting down to the wire and so

we're not sure whether we should move in

with his parents and him get some sort of certification that will get him a job that pays well enough or also that's the

trouble because anything that is hiring it's like $18 an hour which is not enough um or if he should join the military or >> okay >> if he should start up a business we're just we don't know where to Oh, >> okay. I think we will look at some of those options, but I don't think that that's the primary thing we need to be looking at is my guess. I could be wrong. Um,

how much debt do you guys have?

>> A lot. >> Lay lay that out for us. Lay that out for us. Go smallest to largest. George is writing it all down.

>> Okay. Smallest is his student loans.

It's about 20,000.

Um, and then mine I have 40,000 with

federal loans. And then my mom, this is

complicated. Um, had took out the parent

plus loans and it said that for another 40,000 and she expects me to pay her back for that eventually. Um, >> did you agree to that upfront?

>> When you say expects, was that just like a handshake agreement? Did you say, "Hey, I'll pay you back." >> Yeah, I think I did when I was like 18.

So, like right when I started college, I didn't know. I just signed up for it, you know, and >> Okay. >> I guess I said, "Yeah." >> Um, and then our house, our mortgage, and that's it. >> How much is the mortgage? What's the balance and what's the payment?

>> It's 85,000 right now for the house. And then our payment's only like 830 a month.

>> Okay. Well, there's some good news in the mix. So, we definitely need more income to pay off $100,000 in consumer

debt. >> Do you work outside the home?

>> No, that's I'm I just started a nutritional uh a holistic nutrition business, so I haven't really made any money from that yet. But >> is it um like a a multi-level marketing

thing? >> No, >> this is on your own.

>> Yeah. How much how much money do you

think if he were to get a bump from the 45,000, how much do you think he needs to make for you to feel like, okay,

we've got enough income coming in?

>> Yeah, that was our goal is 55,000 total.

>> Yeah. >> So, another 10,000.

>> Yeah. Okay. And it's I mean, it's probably not enough just that to start

paying off debt. Really? Well, that's probably right. >> And I I'm I'm asking this question.

George will kind of walk you through here, but I >> I definitely don't think he needs to start a business. And I don't think you need to start your business. I think you need to press pause on your business and let's see if you can go get a 25, 30, $40,000 job. And then he is also he's

not waiting around to make some giant career move at this point because we're under the gun 3 months away or less to be laid off. So, he's going out and doing whatever. We're going to do whatever for a season. And let's say both of you can make 40.

That's 80,000.

Now, based on the death, you just what?

>> I just had a baby. I um five months ago,

and I I really don't want to put my babies in in daycare.

>> Okay, I get it. But that's again assuming that daycare is your only option.

>> We don't have any family around here.

Your husband's in ministry at a church.

I'll bet the church has got some old ladies in it, right?

>> Yeah. Well, not that could watch my our

kids. >> Do they have a daycare as part of the church? >> No, it's it's a small church.

>> What's keeping you guys in this area if he's laid off and you're not working?

>> Um, nothing really. We love the area, but I mean we could move back to where his parents are and that would be helpful, but it's more expensive over

there. The cost of living is >> I just here here's what I'm hearing.

Sarah, you called us for some advice and everything we throw at you >> feels like a long shot the way you're answering it >> and I think that's a mindset issue.

>> Yeah.

>> You are in some deep water right now.

Yes. >> Yeah. How do people act when they're thrown into deep water?

>> I don't know. The panic >> urgent at least. What do they do? They

they start flapping their arms and kicking their legs and they make some effort to get out of deep water. Yes or no? >> Yeah. And my husband is like he's

>> he's applying. He's not working. There's a difference. >> He has a second job. He does.

>> Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't get that information. All I heard was is he's in ministry.

So, I'm I'm I'm I'm operating on information I've been given. Here's the point I'm trying to make. I think there needs to be some urgency. And I think living with our parents or his parents, I don't think that's the answer.

I think it is we need to get out of this. So, I I enough of my mindset stuff. I'm very concerned though if I can challenge you. I'm concerned about the mindset that I'm hearing.

Now, let's get to the numbers, George.

uh, what realistically, uh, do they need to be doing? >> Well, as it plays out, if you guys kept a 40 or $50,000 salary, you would probably be paying off this debt for the next decade.

>> Yeah, >> that's just the math. That's not me just trying to be, you know, negative. Now, if you guys made a h 100,000 and you had 100,000 to pay off, probably could do it in threeish years, maybe four max.

>> Okay? And so that's the math we're up against here is you need to make double the income or more in order to pay off this debt in a reasonable amount of time because the baby steps exist, those first three for aggressive gazelle intensity. >> It takes most people about three years to get all the way through that from baby step one to three completely out of debt, fully funded emergency fund. And I don't want to see you guys treading water all because well, it's only the job he can get out here.

Not much out here.

I I get it, but but just filling out applications and all that kind of stuff.

And while the clock is ticking down, here's what I don't think you realize.

And I'm coming at this much older and much more experienced. So, this isn't like me looking down my nose at you. I'm just telling you the reality is what you don't realize is that what the debt and the stress of him not having a better job and and and the the shoe falling in

May that he loses his job, the debt payments, your baby is feeling all that anxiety and you don't even know it.

and and and and so what I'm preaching is a mindset of urgency and you're letting life happen to you instead of happen to life. So yeah, if you got to move where you can get child care for free but it's a little bit more expensive, that's fine because you can make a lot more money.

And if you got parents or grandparents to take care of the baby, great. And you

guys both have degrees. Did you graduate?

>> Yeah, he's got a degree in communication studies and I have a degree in fashion merchandising. >> Perfect. So, you both could get jobs in those fields. >> My gosh. If he gets out of ministry and does I mean, there's a lot of jobs in communication. I've got one of those degrees. I made use of it. >> You need to go get you a job at a fancy department store like Nordstrom or Blooming Dales. Use that degree. You know, learn how to do makeup, something.

You've got some real experience and skill set. True or false?

Yeah. In nutrition, not not really fashion merchandising. >> Well, you got a degree in it.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So, if I'm hiring and I look at your resume, I go, "Oh, she's actually got a degree in fashion merchandising. She knows something about >> you're you're just hitting every serve I hit to you, you just hit it back."

>> So, I don't know what to tell you, Sarah. We see this as actually a young

couple who could come together and lock arms and double their income by just sheer effort. And no matter what you choose, it's going to be hard. Moving across the country and higher cost of living is going to be hard. Staying where you are is also going to be hard.

And right now, we got to choose the thing that has our best shot of getting us out of this muck and mire that we are in.

Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time, we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know? >> Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars.

And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular, proper maintenance.

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John is up in Birmingham, Alabama. John, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how are you? Uh, >> doing well. >> So, uh, I'm about 65,000 in debt. Uh,

45,000 on a car, uh, that I leased for

my wife, 5,000 on credit cards, and

about 15,000 on other unsecured loans.

And living paycheck to paycheck. Uh, I I

do work three jobs. Uh uh but living

paycheck to paycheck and don't have any savings, nothing for retirement. I'm 42

and just wondering if being able from

this point to get to millionaire status

and on a on our own home and we're renting as well. So >> what do you what do you make in these three jobs combined? So combined all

together, I'm bringing uh roughly

between 105 and 125 a year.

>> What do you do? What are the three jobs?

>> Well, I do uh little security um granite

fabrication and law enforcement.

>> Which one is the full-time day job?

>> Uh granite fabrication.

>> Huh. >> And sec security is nighttime fulltime.

>> And what's the lawn? It's only it's it's a part time. >> Huh. Okay. >> Did you pick those up out of necessity to pay bills?

>> Uh yeah, I did. Well, I mean I I've had I've had two of the jobs for a long time and I just come back to the Granite.

I've been in it for several years uh since around 99. And uh I come back to

it just to kind of try to get straightened out and try to get some of this off of me. I've been listening to uh Dave's Baby Steps Millionaires and and the other the other book he has out um and it's just had me intrigued and so

I I'm doing everything I can but it seems like every time I get a step step ahead I go I go two steps backwards uh

with something. I've got three kids and a wife. So um just >> Is your wife working outside the home?

No, my wife uh had two strokes back in

2019, which she is 100% well. She's good. That's great. >> But she doesn't work. Um we I just uh

decided that and she doesn't want to work either as far as outside. She's a homemaker. She stays home and takes care of the house and the kids um what their need. So u >> So why did we need a $50,000 car?

Well, she's never had a new car and um

and like I I I guess I started listening to Dave a little too late and you guys a little too late, but um that's that's where we got we kind of got stuck with it after um going there to get it. We

was going to buy and we got stuck in the lease instead of buying and now it's

it's already over. So they all lot

10,000 miles per year. Uh, and we're

already over the >> So, you're paying extra on top of that.

What's your lease payment? >> Well, no. Well, I'm not paying extra.

Um, it's $628.96 per month. Um, but no, I'm not I'm not paying extra, but if we don't buy the

car or if I don't jump into something different and see that's see, I paid 8,500 cash down and I've paid for it for

a full year. So, I paid over6,000. Yeah, that is brutal because you're you need to either have the full amount to pay it off in a lump sum, >> which you don't have, or a lease transfer, which if even that's allowed, that's going to be really difficult to find someone else to take it over, >> right? >> And so there's not a lot of good options with leases.

That's why they're my least favorite way to drive a vehicle. And I hate car loans, but leases take the cake, >> right? >> So, >> do you guys have money in savings at all?

>> No retirement whatsoever.

>> Okay. Well, I can give you some good news. You asked, "Is it still possible for me to become a millionaire?" >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> You guys are done playing this game.

>> We're done. We're We're done. That's why I'm on the phone with you guys. >> You're working hard. You know that.

You're working too hard to be broke.

>> Yeah. >> You're going to pick up a fourth job just to keep up with another payment at this point. And so, you guys are done.

That means your wife is done, too. She is ready to downgrade her lifestyle in order to have a financial future that's worth having.

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. Well, here's what it looks like.

It looks like you working more. You're

going to keep the three jobs, keep making 125K as we knock out the 65K.

That is your only goal for probably the next Could you put like three or four grand a month towards these debts?

>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Uh, yeah. I mean,

I just don't know the this the the strategy to go to go with, but yeah, I can I definitely can. >> You're just going to debt snowball them. So, the smallest balance, probably one of these little credit cards, that's your first one to go. You're going to make minimum payments on everything else. Make your normal lease payment.

The unsecured loans, make the minimum payments. And on that lowest balance, you're going to attack it with a vengeance.

>> Right. >> And if you can throw 3,600 a month at this thing, it's done in 18 months.

That's That's the car and all.

>> That's everything. I mean 60 You said 65,000 total. So just >> that's correct. >> Napkin math. 65,000.

>> Here's what's off from me. George and John. John just told us George that he

can't seem to get ahead. Something always happens. Then you ask him if he could throw 3,000 plus a month away and he instantly says yes. So that tells me

something's off. What's off?

Well, I guess I guess uh the this is what's off. I get ahead and then I turn when I get ahead. I put out everything at once. So my my snowball I get this is what I'm been I've been calculating. My snowballs off. So I I'll put so much to this and then get back behind and then have to turn around and borrow again.

>> Behind for what? Are you not paying your bills? >> Well, no. Like like I'll I'll pay on something. So as of right now I owe 65.

So, I've been I've been paying toward toward things, but then I have to turn around and borrow, then I get back behind again. >> So, it's a budgeting issue. You're not properly allocating your paychecks.

>> Yeah.

I guess that would be right. >> Okay. That's what I was digging for. And George, that's where the coaching's got to happen right here is to really truly get control of the money so you know where it is because that makes sense now. You've got the income.

It just sounds like you're not putting it where it needs to go. So, and then it's disappearing into bills and lifestyle and spending.

>> So, I'm going to gift you Every Dollar, John, the premium version, and I want you to do something very specific. You're going to click on the paycheck planning tool, and it's going to help show you where all the bills fall by the due dates. So, you're going to enter all that in. It will actually show you if and when you're going to run out of money, and then you can move the move the bills around so that they fall behind the paycheck, >> right?

cuz right now everything's happening and you're going, I don't have the money to cover this next bill. And so it will visualize that all for you inside of every dollar.

>> Uh yeah, right now, as a matter of fact, my checking account's in the negative. It changes me to say that, but it's in the negative right now. >> Oh boy. Have you Can you turn off the overdraft with your bank cuz right now you're getting dinged 35 bucks a pop every time that happens.

>> Yeah. So just turn it off. Transaction won't go through.

>> Okay? >> And that that'll reflect the reality that you guys are in. And that next paycheck, leave 500 bucks in there.

Never let your checking account go below 500. That becomes your floor.

>> And then you'll budget with everything on top of that. And so every dollar will walk you through this, John. On top of giving you personalized recommendations on how to find extra margin cuz you have a great income. You're working your tail off. I want you to feel it. So you can become a millionaire. I did the numbers for you. 45 to 67. You invest 15% of a

$100,000 income, you'll have over $1.5

million.

That's 22 years of consistent investing.

But you got to get out of debt first. Got to get that emergency fund. And I'm giving you 3 years to do all of that.

You got this.

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Scott is up in Denver, Colorado. Scott, how can we help?

>> Hi. So, I was calling to see if I could get some advice. Um, long story short,

uh, my wife and I had purchased a house about three years ago. Um, we were,

um, in good. We were making we're making all our payments. Um, then recently um,

she got laid off, had to get a job. Um,

you know, got a job as soon as possible and was able to, you know, um, help again kind of in that sense. Um, but

currently we're kind of living paycheck to paycheck with a house and it's kind of eating us up. So, I'm trying to think of what would be the best solution or

how to go about this and to see if uh selling our house would be the next best step.

>> Sorry to hear that. What do you guys make a year now?

>> So, now we're making about 90 96,000 a

year. >> Okay. That's about That's kind of like after taxes, I guess, or before.

>> Okay. So, what's your monthly take-home pay? >> Um, give me two seconds. I can >> I can crunch it for you. If you're saying that's your your take-home be a month, >> just about. Yeah. >> Okay. And what's your mortgage payment?

>> 20 28.

>> Okay. So, nothing's on fire here. Is it higher than I would like? You know, we say 25% of your after tax income. That would be two grand. 2,800 is not end of

the world. I would not go selling your house tomorrow because of this. You should still have, you know, over five grand in margin to then live your life.

So the question is what is all that getting eaten up by? Do you guys have other debt?

>> Um, so I mean we do we have I have my

student loans um which is just a lump sum and then a smaller lump sum.

>> What's the total of all your consumer debt? Uh so no credit cards but just student loans is about 27.

>> Okay. Anything else?

>> Um I not that I can think of. No.

>> Okay. >> Is really >> So why are you paycheck to paycheck?

>> I don't know. I mean we you know we we

we save. So I I mean we we try to save

as what we can. We tithe and then we also set aside money for

for for you know for the mortgage and then kind of end up scraps. I mean it I

I can't really >> Have you guys ever sat down as a couple and completed an every dollar budget where you just lay out, okay, $8,000 coming in, here's everything going out.

If we follow this to a tea, this is what will happen.

>> Yeah. We we do we do budget meetings, but you know, I think my my issue is

that um I I I I don't I I I I don't

know. It's It's hard to say.

>> No, it's not. Hold on a second. I'm I'm listening here and I'm just going to be real blunt with you. Either you either

you do know and you're not comfortable owning up to it or you don't know. And

I'm I got a gut. Tell me if I'm wrong.

My gut is you guys actually might do a budget, but you don't follow it.

>> That's my guess. >> That sounds right. Yes. >> What do you mean it sounds right?

>> Well, you're right. Yeah.

>> All right. You You see where I'm going here? Like you you're being coached right now and you can't coach somebody who doesn't go, "Oh, okay. Yeah, I do

see that." And because either we're right or we're wrong. And so I heard that. And so the issue then, George, is that's what I thought. They do a budget and I and I think that's a generous application. >> It's like me making a workout plan. Do I do the workout?

>> Right. George, this is exact pick on George. If George had a workout plan that he found online and he went to the gym and and he only was in there for 15 minutes >> and I went to the sauna and steam room and didn't actually do the workout, >> would you call that working out?

>> No. No. >> I don't think that what you're doing is budgeting.

>> Okay. So, right, >> that's and again, it's not to pick on you. It's to help you see that's why you can't answer George with certainty,

>> right? >> We want to solve the right problem here.

And the truth is, yes, it stinks that the income went down, but you have a great income still. I mean, you guys are making six figures after tax.

>> I don't know how you grew up, but that's rich in my neck of the woods. And so, your mortgage payment isn't the thing that's sinking you. I think it's the lifestyle creep and spending that you now it's been exposed because of the lower income because you could stomach it when you guys were making more and now you're going man things feel tight which means if you look at your bank bank statement it might be a better picture of your real financial reality of man we spent a lot on Door Dash this this month we've been going out to eat we have all these subscriptions we have all these luxuries that we really can't afford right now while we clean up debt so if I'm in your shoes I'm not going to be doing any saving are investing right now.

I'm just going to be cleaning up those student loans. What do all those payments add up to for the student loans?

>> Okay. So, you'll get a raise right there. That's, you know, almost four grand a year that you'll have back in your life once you pay these student loans down. And then you'll have a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to 6 months.

How much do you have in savings now?

>> I mean, we do have 10 grand in in savings. >> Okay. So, we're not quite following the steps. If you following the baby steps, you would take nine of that 10 and throw it at the debt.

>> Okay? >> Which gets you down to 18. And if you stop saving and investing right now, you could probably knock out 18 grand pretty quick. Like what? 4 months.

>> All right. >> So, by fall, we are now completely debtree, restocking our emergency fund.

And by 2027, you guys have no debt.

Fully funded emergency fund. your income's probably gone up and the mortgage payment will now feel very reasonable. Now, I hope your income goes up uh and the mortgage payment becomes 25%. But I don't think that's the root issue here that you called in about.

>> Gotcha. Okay.

>> Is there room for her to make more and get back to what she was making?

>> Um I think eventually I I mean she had a

tech job. Now it's a basically just different field, different everything. she was just able to get something as soon as possible, you know, and um kind of got a job with

what she wanted to try and so >> good. >> It Yeah. So, she's she's able to try that, but I I mean, and enjoy it and and try this job that she's always had an interest in. Um I mean, it's just a little bit less, but that's okay.

>> Well, I think she'll make up the difference because as Ken Coleman talks about, if you enjoy what you do, you're probably going to be better at it. you're going to want to become a master at it and excel at it, which usually leads to promotions and raises.

>> Yeah, that's right. So, appreciate the call. Uh, but I think you guys just lock in, you know, and actually know where our money is going. And, uh, >> which means tracking the transactions as the month goes on and not just setting it and then forgetting it and looking at next month going, "All right, let's plan for the other month." >> That's right. Let's go to Chris in Boisee, Idaho. Chris, how can we help?

>> Chris, how can we help? >> Hey, how you doing? I've um I've been following you guys pretty religiously since I was a young man and um I've done pretty well for myself. Uh haven't bought a car in 10 years. Um my truck's

actually almost 15 years old. Um but it's it's going strong. I had to give my my wife's car away to my son cuz he needed it for work. So now the first time in 10 years we got to buy a car and I'm thinking about going against all the things that I learned over the years and taking out a loan. Um, we want to get a

nice call. >> I know. I know. >> Hey, listen. Before we say anything, before we say anything, I I just would love to know what your mental process was when you called into the show since you've listened to Dave and presumably us for many, many years. What was your thought process in asking that question?

What did you think we were going to say?

>> I know. I know. So, here's the here's the issue. So, I'm retired and um

if I pull the money out of my IRA,

it's going to be a 20% tax on it. Um

take out a >> Yeah. If I take out a short-term loan, you know, right now they're at three to, you know, two to 4%. And if I do

>> Chris, you told me this has been like a decadesl long process. You know, you got to save up for things that you want over time. Why is it now all of a sudden an emergency?

>> Well, it's it's it's not really an emergency, but we want to do something.

You know, we want to buy a nice car if we haven't had a nice car in a while. >> Let me rephrase that. You want to live beyond your means, and you did not have the discipline to save up for it. And so, you want to shortcut it with a loan that's now going to add stress and risk to your life. >> Well, it's it's not really that. I mean, we've got we've got a lot of money.

>> I don't know. If you have a lot of money, then buy it in cash.

Well, but then I'm paying 20% versus >> then you don't have a lot of money. If you're talking about retirement money, we're not going to touch that if it's going to be taxed and penalized. So, we got to save up and have money we can actually use right now that's liquid, a high yield savings account. And so, it sounds like you just you got to save up.

We're going to be down to one car for a little while until we can do that.

>> I think it's great advice. I don't know why you needed a shout. I don't know. I don't think that was necessary >> cuz he knows better. You >> stop yelling at the callers.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. George

Camel is sitting alongside me. I'm Ken Coleman. And warning to all of you, he is a little frisky today. He's a little

upset. He's had it up to where, George?

Top of the head. >> Up to here. And I know I'm not that tall, but I'm telling you, still that's pretty high. >> He's a little upset. So, we'll see what happens here. Beware, callers.

Michael is up in Orlando. Michael, how

can we help?

>> Oh, man. I hope you're not too upset. How you guys doing? >> I'll be kind. Hey, I'm Michael. I'm here to protect you cuz he is steaming. I'm kidding. We're having a little bit of fun. Go ahead. >> All right. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, guys. Um, so, um, I'm not sure if I'm a

little, uh, too, what's the word? Like,

if I'm exaggerating or if it's a really big problem, but I just wanted to hear

what you guys think. So, basically, I

got laid off from my job as a healthc care uh retention

specialist about

um April of last year, so maybe eight months, I guess.

And I ended up going back into my family's

business.

So, uh, that did not work out as well as I thought it would for me. And

it caused a lot of family drama. So, I kind of drifted off from that. And

since about November or December, I

would say, I've been looking for new work and I went back to school working on my PMP certification.

I've always followed you guys for um since my childhood basically.

>> So you've been out of you've been out of work for a few months. What's your question for us?

>> Yeah. So I mean I I have been out of work. I do flip cars. Uh that's you can call it a side hustle. So I mean I I carry myself that way. >> Okay. >> I went to school for my PMP

certification. I went back to school for that. And since then, I've been looking

for work. Um, I do travel a lot. So,

>> how can we how can we help you today?

>> So, basically, I'm wondering uh the schooling put me about $9,000 in debt.

>> Okay. >> And >> and you finished again. >> You have the PMP certification now?

>> No, I do not. I have the

PAPM. So, it's basically the associate

of the PMP.

>> Okay. Okay. So, you got $9,000 in debt.

>> Yeah. And I'm just a little worried because I haven't really found the work yet. I'm looking for work as a project

coordinator or assistant project manager

at this point. Uh, >> what's your payment? What's your monthly payment on the 9,000?

So, um I think it's about

>> we can I think it's about 450.

>> Any other debt at all?

>> No, sir. >> Okay. So, Michael, I love all the background. You've given us fabulous context.

What is your question?

So, I'm not exactly sure how I should approach this because >> how you should approach what?

>> The debt. >> The debt. >> All right. Let's assume that your question is, "How do I pay off the $9,000 as quick as I possibly can?" What's the best way to do it, George?

>> You need income to do that. Right now, you're saying you don't have any income except for the car flipping, which is just getting you by, >> right? >> Okay. Where are you living?

So, I moved back and forth. Um, >> where are you living, Michael? Just tell me right now. Where are you living?

>> Right now, I'm in New York. I'm going to go to India in a few days.

>> Why? You said you're traveling all the time. A guy who's broke shouldn't be traveling all the time.

>> Right. I I actually help out with the with my family. They do some work over there. So, >> So, you're going to India to make money to be a missionary? >> Hold on. Hold on. Are you going to India to make money?

I'm not going to get anything for myself. No. >> Michael, what are we doing, buddy? You need a job. Like, my screen says, "Should I file for bankruptcy?" So, you're telling me you're doing volunteer work while on the verge of bankruptcy?

>> I uh >> Yes or no? >> I guess >> I guess you could say yes.

>> No, it's yes. All right. So, >> yeah. Yeah, you're right.

>> Yes. So, you need a job working at a gas

station. You need a job working at a

warehouse. You don't have time for this

degree or certificate, whatever that is.

You've been floundering for too long.

Can we agree on that?

>> Um, define floundering. I don't know.

>> You've been just floating through life, boopping around >> in the pinball machine, and just hoping that you make it through. Can we agree that's not a good strategy?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Absolutely not. >> We need some purpose. We need some clarity. We need some urgency. But not bankruptcy. Let's just boil this down.

You don't need to file bankruptcy for $9,000 worth of debt when you are an able-bodied young man. So, you pay off

the $9,000. So, George is going to tell you, very straightforward, how you let's assume the income is there and he's got to go do that. >> You get the project coordinator job.

Here's what you do. >> 40 $45,000. You're >> or warehouse or gas station, right? Just

right now, you need some income. And by the way, it's not on the way to India.

All right, George. How's he pay the 9,000 off? >> So, you were going to live like a broke person, which should be easy cuz right now that's kind of how you're living. But you're going to spend nothing outside of food, utilities, housing, transportation, and every other dollar that you can free up is going to go toward that debt.

And you'll pay it off pretty fast. If you can throw a,000 bucks a month this at this thing, you're done in 9 months. You're done before the end of the year. That gets you to freedom.

But the thing is, the $9,000 is not the major problem here. Cuz for most people that's nothing. They'd be like, "This guy's barely in debt. Why is he calling the show?" There is a mindset issue here because you called in saying, "I'm on the verge of bankruptcy because I went into some student loan debt for a certification." And that tells me there's a deeper issue here that you've been living this way for your whole adult life without real purpose or clarity or mentorship coaching.

And that's what we're here to do. And so, you need to get that job and you need to stop traveling. You need to save up some money and avoid going to debt ever again. And I hope you can do that.

At least you got the certification done. I don't know what it takes to get to a full PMP if it if you need that to get the job. >> More money sounds like, >> but maybe that they'll pay for it. If you get a good job and you work your tail off, they go, "Hey, we'll send you back to get the full PMP certification." And I hope that helps.

>> All right, we're going to go to Sam in New York. Now, Sam, we got to get the quick question here. Straightforward, and it looks like we can answer this one.

>> Okay, I'm looking at my 401k. It's with the common money company known and the

choices are mutual funds and they're with known money companies. The first row companies they get a cut. The second row they get to cut the mutual funds and some of the mutual funds invested other mutual funds. I'm paying multiple layers of fees.

I'm thinking I might be just ahead just to take my money and go to one of these platforms where there's zero trading fees and just go buy, you know, a couple shares of the Dow if I want that or a couple shares of the S&P 500, a couple shares of the Russell or maybe the Russell. >> So, the question is, should you So, the question is, should you do your own trading management, >> right? >> What's that? >> So, we got it.

Should you do your own trading? Should you be your own stock uh investor, broker? All right, George. If you want to invest in a Roth IRA and you want to open that yourself, you've done your research.

You want to just invest in the S&P, you can absolutely do that with low fees. But I would actually look into what you're really paying with your 401k. I doubt it's as much as you think it is when you look at the expense ratios. But start with the Roth IRA and then once you max that out, go back to your your 401k and uh you'll be fine in the long run.

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Today's question comes from Ethan in New Mexico. He says, "I'm an unmarried sales rep in my mid20s and considering buying my first home. I want it to be a blessing, not a burden. So, I'm confused as to why you use net take-home pay to determine the recommended monthly payment and other money experts go off of gross income.

I understand the difference, but would appreciate an explanation about the why behind your recommendation." Okay, so to be clear, Ethan is talking about our housing parameter. So, your rent or mortgage should be no more than 25% of your after tax monthly income. And he's wondering, why do you say after tax? All these other guys say gross income's fine or 30% of your gross income.

Your net income versus gross can vary greatly depending on where you live.

Just ask anybody in California. Their gross income does not mean that's how much they get to use in our economy. And so net income is a much better indicator of your financial stability as far as what you can actually use to pay your bills. So net income, yes, it's more conservative than your gross income.

25% is more conservative than most people uh suggest, but it is to allow you to get through the other baby steps. So baby step four, five, six, investing for the future, saving for kids, college, paying off the house early, which is something that most people don't do. So that's why it's conservative. And uh if you're an unmarried sales rep in your mid20s, you got time on your side to buy a house, don't rush into it.

>> Yeah, good. >> That's my take. I don't know. Dave may have a different explanation of it's his parameter, but I agree with it and it worked for me. >> I like it. I liked it. Jefferson is up

in Indianapolis. Jefferson, how can we help? um had a question on when I first

started working I set up my retirement to increase 1% every year and now that's

several years later and I have some debt and I'm wondering if I should back off the retirement to pay down the debt and then push it back up later because my company only offers 1% match so it's not

like I'm getting much free money from them. >> Yeah. How much debt do you have?

>> About 68,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you make?

>> Uh together my wife and I bring home about 140. >> Awesome. So how long do you think if you paused investing you would save the amount you're invest you know your percentage you're investing which is how much? What's the percentage?

>> Uh it would probably be oh 13%.

>> 13%. And how much do you make?

>> I make myself 82.

>> Okay. So, you would gain 10 grand back for the year if you paused investing for one year, >> which would get you out of debt faster.

>> Yeah. >> Now, are you still going to be able to retire if you do that? You're going to be okay with your nest egg if we come back swinging at 15% or more for the rest of your life.

>> Should be >> okay. That's what I would do.

>> Only 33, so I should have time.

>> Oh, you got plenty of time on your side.

So, I'm making 140K. you know, if you throw, let's say, how much do you think you could throw right now towards the debt if you paused investing, which would give you uh, you know, a decent chunk, 833 bucks back in your life every month? >> So, we have um I sold a bunch of silver coins recently, so I have almost 20,000 I have in a mutual fund. >> Great. >> Sorry, not sorry. Money market account.

Okay. >> But we have to do a new roof um inside our house this year. So, I've been holding on to that to do that first and then whatever's left from that I can throw at it. Okay. So, I mean, the new roof might take that might take 20 grand these days.

>> Uh, I'm going to do it myself, so I only have to do by the supply. So, it should hopefully be a lot less than that. >> Wow, that's impressive. Okay, so let's

do that. Let's say you got 58 uh, you know, grand. Let's say you have 10 grand, you pay it down to 58. Could you throw, I don't know, five grand a month

towards this debt at that point?

Uh, probably not five grand because we have two kids and they're both in daycare and that eats up a lot. But we can probably do maybe an extra grand a month. >> So, how much total going towards the debt? >> It would be between two and 2500 a

month. >> Okay. So, I'll do the math for you. 2500 a month, it would take you roughly two years. >> Okay, >> if you did it that way. Now, if you can free up more money, it'll take you less time obviously. So that would be the goal is worst case we're out of debt in 2 years and then I'm back to investing not 13% but 15% until the house is paid

off and then you can invest even more beyond that and catch up. So you got plenty of time. I mean you still got three decades of a working career. So I have no doubt you'll catch up but right now it's let's get rid of this debt and stay out. >> And but I want to challenge you. What would you say that you would that you could do to shorten that timeline that George just threw at you?

Uh, I've got some other stuff I could probably sell. Um, and a couple side hustles like making maple syrup and making lumber. So, >> that's what I that's where I was going knowing your skill set. So, now the fun

exercise George gave you the a great starting point. And so, now it's okay, what would I how much money would I need to make to do it in 12 months? And you

put that number out, then you go, how can I make that money? And all of a sudden it just gets really really fun.

You are a serious person. You'll get pretty motivated. And I'm telling you the exercise is to say how much money to do it in 12 months. George, give us that number. >> 12 months would be five grand. That's the number I originally threw out. I man it'd be cool to knock this out in 12 months. >> Okay. So then now we have a number and with your skill set stuff you can sell.

How quickly can you make the five grand?

Yeah, >> that's your that's your homework assignment. >> Okay. >> And watch how fun that gets. And and and I got to I got to do a little uh mini lesson on this, George. Okay. This is I nerd out on this stuff sometimes and I haven't nerd out in a while. And this is time. You've been holding out on there's a lot of people that need to hear this.

They're in different situation than Jefferson, but it it is the power of focus. Okay. Um you remember the last

time you bought a car, George? >> Yeah, it was recently. >> Okay. Do you remember seeing that car all over the road? >> Yeah. >> You know, like three, five, seven days after that. >> Oh, yeah. >> That's an actual effect from psychology.

>> I noticed them a lot more >> and everybody does. This has happened to everybody. And this is the power of focus. And so what I want people to understand is that when you buy a car, that's an intense, right? There's a lot of maybe research of course there is

sleepless nights maybe or positive emotion but you are focused on it and the day comes and you make the purchase you drive it off the lot. We see it everywhere. Now the the the the the car

gods didn't just drop that in there all of a sudden to mess with you. >> There's not actually more of that. >> There's not more of those. But why do we see it?

And the answer is this nerdy thing in our brain called the reticular activating system. And it's the part of the brain that takes pictures on what we focus on. And so that's why some days when we're having a bad day and we feel like everybody's against us, you know, and you're at the grocery store and the kid talks to you like, you know, you're an idiot, but he probably wasn't. But you've been walking around all day going, I'm getting treated this way at home.

The point is what we focus on. Our brain

then goes and takes pictures of it. And so very nerdy. I get it. But this is all

scientific. It's all psychology. The brain is powerful. And so him focusing on $5,000.

Somehow someway, my life changes

dramatically for $5,000. But for people

that are listening that are in much deeper debt, $50,000, that seems like

insurmountable until you start to focus on how can I come up with or how can I

pay off $50,000. And I just wanted to

encourage people that are listening and watching today that if you focus on the

right steps and the baby steps are what you focus on. It's why Dave preaches it.

It's why we preach it. By the way, it's why it's worked. >> Yeah. >> Focused intensity. >> Focused intensity over time, right?

Multiply by God. Unstoppable momentum.

And so I just want people to understand your brain will do the work if you give it the the right inputs.

>> Yeah. So focus on whatever I got to do

to make $5,000. And then opportunities that you didn't see previously will absolutely appear just like the car that you bought. >> Things that looked like work before now become an opportunity to go make an extra thousand bucks. >> Yeah. So I mean this mindset stuff isn't motivational gobbledygook.

This is the way your brain works. So focus on the right stuff and watch good stuff happen.

Heat. Heat.

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>> All right, George, you ready for a babyepsmillionaire call? These are always really fun. Let's go to They are

Sou Falls. Have you ever been to Sou Falls, by the way? >> I haven't. Yeah, I have. It's lovely.

The The Falls, by the way, >> runs right right downtown.

>> I didn't think about there's real falls there. It's not just in the name >> and it's absolutely stunning. Eric is joining us in Sou Falls. Eric, congratulations on being a Baby Steps Millionaire. Thanks for being on with us and sharing your story.

>> Thanks, Ken and George. It's It's an honor. >> All right, so you know, we like to run you through the list of questions here. Are you ready to roll? >> About to rock and roll. >> All right. Tell us your net worth, Eric.

>> We just creeped over a million uh basically at the first of the year. So, we've been watching it, watching it little by little and finally got there.

>> Congratulations on that. That's got to feel good.

It did. It did. You know, we we didn't get to quite celebrate with the millionaires on the Ramsay cruise last March, but uh just took us a few almost another year and we were there. >> Well, I got great news for you, Eric.

We got another one coming in 2027 and it's half full. So, you might want to join us on that one. >> I know. I just got to hope my schedule lines up and allows us to go because it looks like a great route.

>> Well, George will write a note to your boss if you like. A doctor's note. Yeah, it'd be great. >> Probably more the kids that are the problem.

Oh, well, I can't help you there.

>> Yeah, probably. >> How old are you, Eric?

>> I am 44, about to turn 45. My wife's a couple years younger than me. >> Nice. >> Wow. >> And All right. Tell us what the mix of the 1 million net worth is.

>> So, we've got a house that's probably worth about a half a million. We still owe about 165 on that. We've got about

uh about 400 and some thousand in uh

401ks and IRA and then we've got about 150,000 in liquid cash.

>> Okay. Very very nice. What's your uh income?

>> Uh it's when we got married 20 years ago, it was maybe all of 50,000 and now it pushes about 200.

>> Woo. What do you guys do?

I'm a CFO for a local uh Powers Sports

uh family of dealerships and my wife is

a manager at a sporting goods store.

>> Oh, I like that. Boy, I bet you guys get the fun discounts between the Powers Sports stuff and the sporting goods store. That's kind of fun for me. George doesn't know what any of that means, but I would enjoy that. >> Uh now, do you >> be careful not spending it all?

>> Right, right, right, right. That's good.

Uh do you use a Smart Veester Pro by any chance? >> We do. We use a local local Compass

Financial that we've used for a good, you know, 12 or so years that we love.

So, he certainly helped us with that.

>> Got you set up well for the future because you're still a young man. Uh, >> yeah, absolutely. >> How much of the Well, we know this already, but we want to point out a lot of people think that wealthy people like you inherited. You inherited zero, I'm guessing. Is that true?

>> That's actually not true. About three years ago, my grandmother died. because unfortunately my dad had already died.

Uh my dad's portion went to my siblings and I >> um we about 90,000.

>> Okay. All right. Not not a huge amount, but >> but I definitely I'd give it back though, you know, to have uh have it gone to the generation before, but it's going to pass on its blessings.

>> What did you do with the 90,000?

>> It's actually sitting in a CD earning more interest than I'm paying on my mortgage. When those lines c cross each other in three years, the mortgage is going to be gone. >> Wow. All right. Very interesting. Uh and

let's see here. Uh do you have a degree?

You and your wife, do you have degrees?

>> Yep. I have a bachelor's in accounting.

She has a bachelor's in uh business administration. >> All right. And uh what what was your GPA?

>> I probably barely got through. I had about a 2.4. Uh, I had, as Dave would say, I played a little too much beer pong >> and she was much smarter than me. She had close to a 37, she tells me.

>> Isn't that fascinating? And George, some of these questions, you know, that this is a pattern from our largest study ever done, over 10,000 net worth millionaires, and these are very interesting facts. You know, everybody thinks, well, you're a validictorian or whatever, a genius. >> Yeah.

And Eric, again, like every good man, clearly married up. So, she did better than you in GPA. And >> and even with your 2.4, four, you became a CFO making a great income. I know just to give people hope that uh it's it's not all down to, you know, how well you focused in school.

>> Here's another fun thing we love to ask net worth millionaires. What kind of jeans do you wear? Uh Bill, uh excuse me, Eric.

>> Levis's. >> You wear Levis's. The new fangled ones or old school? >> No. No. Probably about three, four years old now. >> Where do you guys shop normally? like where where does an actual real life millionaire where do you guys tend to go for things like groceries and clothing?

>> Uh we've got uh Fairway and Hi Ve here

in South Dakota. Uh you know try to keep the wife out of Target as much as possible.

>> Uh >> I got to do a follow-up. Eric, are you a boot cut on the jean? What what cut do you like to wear? >> Probably more just straight.

>> Just straight. Okay. Very good. You got to wonder, you know, because you picture a millionaire, Ken, people think of >> I thought maybe he rides a horse and he wears boots.

>> Yeah. You think of an athlete, a celebrity, and then you got the Erics of the world just out there in their straight cut jeans. >> Yeah. Now, Eric, George and I are both short, so we have to have our jeans tailored.

Do you wear yours right off the rack? >> Right off the rack. It's the most amazing thing.

>> That's incredible. I love it. Too much on the jeans now. I got to move. >> I want to ask about the cars. People always want to know, what do millionaires drive? We see people driving around fancy cars. What do you guys have? Give us the year, makes, and model >> for the We drive Hond's. We have owned Toyotas in the past, though. So, my wife drives a 15 Honda Pilot. I just got a 12

Honda Pilot cuz I just passed an 06 and Accord down to a a 14year-old driver.

>> Wow. That's awesome. You were driving a car that is 14 years old.

>> Yeah. And I kind of miss it to be honest with you. >> Wow. >> And and and tell people why, Eric, we're asking that question. How does it play into this financial picture you gave us?

Well, I mean, yeah, we've spent some money in repairs and maintenance, but I I'm not going to write a check for $40,000 for a brand new car and just watch all that value disappear. I'm just I got too much tight wad syndrome in me.

It's going to be hard enough just to to upgrade even when we are debtree.

>> Even Even if you had an extra 500 grand laying around, you're still like, I don't know that I want to sink it all into that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, especially as a CFO, you understand, you know, fiscal responsibility.

Yes. A little too much. >> Would you uh would you ever upgrade to a Hyundai by any chance?

>> No, probably not. >> Okay, there you go. >> I don't think I would call that an upgrade at all.

>> Boom. >> Oh, wow. >> Hyundai burn. >> Wow. He took a shot at them. >> Well, if you're a Honda man, you know, you're >> Well, that's why I asked. >> He's an elitist. He knows those cars are great cars. U Okay. What What would you say to young people that are listening watching this? All right. >> There's a 24y old who's 20 years younger than you, just getting started. >> Yeah. Could they could they mirror what you did? What would you tell them to to get to where you are today?

>> Yeah, I think they certainly could. You just got to be you just got to start uh you just got to live off a budget. You can't just, you know, be racking things up on credit cards or not paying attention. You know, I just started using Every Dollar like two years ago, but I still have Excel spreadsheets going back to when we were first married. You got to you just got to pay attention to what you're doing. Be diligent. Pay yourself at least a little bit first. And the baby steps work. Just use them.

>> That's good. Just stay out of debt. Live below your means. As you make more money, don't spend it all. Don't have lifestyle creep eat it all up. And drive those used cars and instead build wealth instead of just trying to look wealthy.

>> Yeah. >> 100%. I remember my parents saying, "If you can't pay for it, then you can't afford it." So there you go.

>> I love that. So, how do you feel now about the future of your family, the things that you might be able to do, the kids, you know, and what they've seen you do, how has this lifestyle and now where you've just crossed this line, what a big, you know, achievement. How does that What's the emotional and mindset now that you have having crossed this line of being a a baby steps millionaire? >> It feels good.

I think honestly it'll probably feel even more real when the house is paid off and you know about the same time that uh you got a kid getting ready to go to college, line those things up, the bills never disappear, right? As the kids get older, the bill is there's just more zeros on it.

It's like, okay, you stay sit back and take the big picture and uh everything starts to open up for the future and it's like, all right, we uh we did it.

We we we ground it out. We can afford to do some things and let go of the purse strings every once in a while. There you go. You might wake up someday and you can't anymore. So, I love it. You know what else I love? The straight leg Levis's. You can dress those up or dress them down. He can wear a sport coat. >> That's good advice from a millionaire from from a CFO.

How many times have you started January saying, "This is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control." But then months go by and you still feel

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All right, our scripture of the day comes from First Thessalonians 5:18.

Give thanks in all circumstances for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. Our quote of the day from Zigg Ziggler. Be grateful for what you have

and stop complaining. It bores everybody else does you no good and doesn't solve any problems.

>> Wow. >> Uh-huh. How about that? >> Felt personal. Zigg, >> I try to make my complaints entertaining. That's the goal.

>> I find them entertaining. I don't know if that's just because of your delivery or my weird sense of humor. All right,

Bill is up in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Bill, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, how's it going? Um, so I had a question for you. Uh, I'm I have all my debt paid off except for my house. Uh, and I had to take out a home equity loan on that house. Um, and I'm trying to decide which way which which loan I should focus on paying off, either the mortgage or the home equity loan, and trying to get some advice on that.

>> Yeah. Lay out the balances for us.

So the the principal mortgage is 135,000

and the home equity loan is 125,000.

>> Goodness gracious.

>> Yeah. >> You said you had to take the heliloc out. Who who forced your hand on that?

>> Uh my ex-wife.

>> Oh. So it was a buyout as part of the divorce. >> Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. >> You needed to give her her share and so he locked in. >> Correct. >> All right.

I mean you you win in the exe exceptions to the rule. >> You and you know what I like about this Bill? You got him. He thought he had you in a corner and you put him in his place.

>> I thought Bill put a real nice pool out back. >> Okay. So, you got the heliloc and you've got the mortgage. They're similar balances.

>> Okay. >> It's a variable interest rate and can be called uh due at any time. So, it's riskier than your fixed rate mortgage. I assume your mortgage is fixed rate.

>> So, yeah, they're actually both fixed.

>> Oh, it is a fixed rate. Okay.

>> Yeah. And the the the principal is a two

and 3/4% and the heliloc is like 5 and a

half. >> Okay. Yeah. I would just attack that heliloc at that point since they're similar balances. They're both fixed rate. The heliloc's got the higher balance. It's just an added layer of risk. I would want to get rid of that first and just make your normal mortgage payment outside of that.

>> Should I should I stop investing and and

and do like I was doing when I was doing this the debt snowball? >> What's your income?

uh 155 a year.

>> Okay. So, because this heliloc is more

than half of your annual income, it would be a baby step six item.

>> Okay? >> And so that would mean you're investing 15% putting money away for college if you need to for the kids and then anything else will go towards that helock while making minimums on the mortgage. >> So I don't know how long that's going to take you at this point. This sounds like it's probably going to be, you know, you're making 155.

said to pay off 125 while making investing and paying the mortgage. Is that going to make things tight? >> Uh, no. So, what I did when I took it took the helock out, I did it for 20 years.

So, the the payment was manageable.

>> Yeah. What's your goal with this? Uh, how how long you think it'll take?

>> Uh, I'm hoping in the next five years is

what I'm hoping. I know on the on the principal mortgage about 5 and a half years is what I had what I owe left on it. Um and so I would like to get both

of them kind of knocked out at the same time. >> Okay. So you'll knock out about 25 grand a year off that HELOC and you're done in 5 years and you'll be how old by then?

>> Uh 5 years I'll be 49.

>> Okay, cool. And yeah, investing 15% that

whole time only because it's more than half your annual income.

>> Okay. >> And so I would just keep on rocking. Uh it's it stinks that you're here. I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but you'll clean this up in due time. Luckily, the mortgage is uh reasonable.

I mean, it's rare you hear about someone with a mortgage of 135 grand.

>> Yeah. Well, that was the goal is to have that paid off next year, but uh other things happen. >> Life happened. >> Yeah. >> Well, best of luck, man. Just think about it like this. You got, you know, 260 grand to pay off, which is still in America today a reasonable mortgage wildly. >> That's a very good point. Uh, Richard's up in Las Vegas now. Richard, how can we help?

>> Hi. How you doing? >> Good. How are you?

>> I'm okay. Thank you for asking. I'm calling because I have a question. Um, I

I uh about a few years back, I bought a

bunch of Snap-on tools uh from the Snap-On truck. And um I uh racked up

about I want to say about $7 to $8,000

in debt with the toolbox some uh a

scanner tool to scan vehicles

and um the shop that I was working for

shut down. So I was forced to just take my tools home and I didn't get I didn't continue with the mechanic career. I

ended up doing construction and things weren't going so well for me and uh you

know I went down the wrong path a little bit and I'm barely starting to get back on my feet and I got a phone call from a

recovery agency saying that now I owe uh

they have a judgment against me and now I owe them $17,000 and and actually

$17,500

um for that for that for those tools,

the interest and the judgment. Now, my

question is, do I do I try to call Snap-on Tools to pay Snap-On Tools or do I just pay the recovery agency? Cuz they say they're going to go into collections and then they're going to start a wage garnishment and take a 25% of my check.

>> Do you have cash?

>> Do I have cash? >> In other words, you just asked, should you pay? I'm asking, do you have money?

Didn't it didn't sound like to me like at the start of this call you had any extra money laying around. You got money in savings or checking?

>> I got like $3,000 saved up, but I've kind of just saving that for a rainy day because >> Well, it's raining.

>> Yeah, you need to validate all this debt. So, I wouldn't do anything yet.

Cuz here's the thing. Did they actually sue you and win and get a court order?

>> Well, that's what they're telling me. I remember getting >> Do you recall being sued and them winning?

I recall receiving a paper from Snap-On

and I messed up and I never showed up to the court date, but after that, I never got another letter in the mail saying that. >> Okay. I would call your county clerk's office. That would be your next step.

Ask if there's a judgment under your name and then validate that. And if if it's true, then yes. If there's a judgment against you and they won, they can garnish your wages and they will.

>> Okay. And should I start should I pay the recovery agency or do I go directly to Snap-On because they said that >> Snap-on likely sold them the debt

cuz you didn't pay, right? It went to collections cuz you didn't pay and now this debt recovery agency is trying to get as much as they can for this debt.

>> So the truth is you don't have the money. So what they'll likely do is allow you to settle to call this good,

but you're going to need some money in order to do that. >> Yeah. Do you have the tools still?

>> I have some of them. >> Well, how much are those worth?

>> Uh, not even half of what they're asking for. >> I didn't ask you that. I didn't ask you that. That's a homework assignment.

Now, I have no idea. Okay. I don't know anything about tools. But if these are nice tools and you can get some money for used tools, find out how much.

Like, go do some research. Like, you got to take this thing.

>> Got that? >> They wanted It's Yeah, they wanted eight They said they would settle if I give them First They said 9,000. I said I couldn't do that. Then they said, "Okay, they'll settle for $8,000." Um, >> that's great news for you. So contact them and tell them, "I can't do eight,

but I think I can do four." Or, "If you give me until this date, here's how much I can do." >> But look up what you can sell those tools for. That's the That's the primary thing you should be doing because you essentially stole the tools, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So, sell the tools and take whatever cash, sell a bunch of other stuff, and if you can scrape together four grand, they'll probably take it.

Don't you think, George? But the key to this is Richard, you got to make sure that you have something in writing so that they can't come back and say, "You owe us more." That this is the settlement amount and I'm going to pay you. So record everything. Write everything down.

Who you talk to, when you talk to them, what they said. Get everything in writing and email. And do not give them debit card access. Do not give them your bank information.

Do not agree to random payment plans. Do not let them harass you. You just got to say, "I don't have the money.

I'm working on saving up the money. And don't let this don't let this sit >> like you've ignored it for far too long. >> You didn't show up to court. Don't let somebody talk you into this or whatever path you've been down. Don't go back down that path. Own up on this thing and fix this thing. This is doable. And then you can move on. This is not the end of your life. All right, everybody.

Remember this. There's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 125. Panic Never Leads to Peace | August 6, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM11DRT12sY) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:13:29 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Thank you for joining us, America. Kent Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, and host of the brand new hit on Ramsey Networks called Front Row Seat, a long form interview show where he really gets into it with successful and famous people. and you will learn a lot from that process. Be sure to join him there.

He's going to help me out today. The phone number here is8 8255225.

Ashley's in Birmingham. Hi Ashley. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I just had a question if me and my

husband should sell our house after a recent robbery.

>> Wow.

Well, that that's pretty emotionally damaging. You feel violated at a whole different level, don't you?

>> We do. We do. Thankfully, it wasn't the inside of their house. They didn't breach the inside, but they break into our backyard and stole all of my husband's lawn equipment.

>> Okay. Well, that's a weird robber.

>> What do I want? A lawn mower. Yeah. I'm thinking, what is this? Kids. Um, who

steals a lawnmower?

>> Well, that's kind of on point. So, I'm 25, my husband's 27. We've been married since April of this year, and I bought my house in February of 2024. So, we

haven't lived in it long. My husband just moved in after we got married. Um, and now this incident has happened that >> So, is this is this indicative of the neighborhood being trashy or is this just a one-off weird thing?

I don't believe so. We live in Birmingham. Um, and >> I know, but there's trashy areas like there is in Birmingham, like any area of the country, any city has them, >> right? We I mean, I don't believe so.

It's definitely an upand cominging area.

All the houses range from probably 200,000 to $400,000.

>> Is there a crime problem in your neighborhood?

>> Not that I'm aware of. >> Okay. So, this is a one-off weird thing,

>> right? As far as I'm aware, yes. And we fought a police report and we asked the policeman the same thing and that's what he had said as well. >> So why would you sell? You wouldn't sell because of one single incident that is not an indicator of what's really going on around there. It's a one-off anomaly.

>> No, you don't sell based on >> right. >> If you tell me, look, my neighbor's car got broke into that some bozo shot down the street the other night at each other. Yeah, move. Okay. But but you're

just telling me no one else in the area had a problem. Somebody stole your lawn mower, >> right? Yeah. Well, that that's my point.

My husband is, you know, a great godly

man and he wants to protect us. So, he just feels he feels violated. He feels like we're not safe anymore and he wants to sell even though I really haven't lived in the house long enough. I would like to >> That's not the point. How long you've lived in it doesn't matter. If you're unsafe, you leave. But you're not unsafe based on what you're telling me. So, he's not being logical. He's being a drama queen about his lawnmower getting stolen.

>> Okay. Okay. >> That's what you're telling me.

>> You're telling me that I'm not Am I miss What I mean? Look. Okay. I got a I live in a gated neighborhood. Very expensive homes that run from one half to $10

million. Okay. Somebody broke into one

of those houses and went to the safe and

stole the guy's guns and jewelry and got into the safe. Obviously an inside job based on the fingerprints that are all over the thing, so to speak. Um, I ain't moving.

I'm not moving. Okay. Some one of their

somebody that was helping them at that house or something got into that house.

We do not live in a crimeinfested neighborhood. My neighbor got broken into and I'm not moving. Uh, there's no crime problem, I promise you, in this neighborhood. Okay. Uh, that I'm talking about. So, no. No. I mean, you you're telling me there's no crime problem. You had a oneoff and it's a kind of unusual oneoff. You have to admit if you're stealing lawnmowers, you're pretty low on the totem pole of thieves,

>> right?

>> It sounds almost like teenagers or something goofing off when they find them in a ditch down the street. >> I I'm curious. I'm trying to as Dave's talking, I'm just going, okay, I'm trying to put myself in your husband's shoes because you got to handle this delicately. Um because you can't tell him what Dave said about him, you know, but I don't think >> Yeah, you can.

Anytime Dave say he's a drama queen. >> Yeah, that you said it. She can't say that. Uh here's what have the police said on this deal.

Are there leads?

Are we missing any details?

>> No, not that I'm aware of. The house is across the street from the gas station or a gas station and that has made my husband nervous since I bought it. But we've never had any issues beyond this.

It's on a main road, so a lot of people can >> How much How much financial loss in all that lawn equipment? Is it just one lawn mower or is it more? >> You got insurance on it.

>> I know. I'm just asking some questions.

>> I I >> Listen, I think I have a different take than Dave. I on this one. I think if your husband's wigged out by this, whether it's a one-off or not, I think you guys have got to process this a little bit more. And I, if it were me, I would want to know a whole lot more about suspects. Um, you know, uh, I I

think this area is probably a little bit more sketchy than you're leading on.

That's what I think. I could be wrong. I don't think this is like a super nice area of Birmingham. And so, if they if they targeted you once, they may target other places. I just would give it a little bit more conversation with your husband. I also get your point that I don't want to necessarily move this house right away. So, I'm with Dave. I wouldn't just up and throw a sign in the yard, but I would talk about it a little bit more and figure out what's going on.

I just don't feel like we're getting everything. >> When you're in an emotional situation, facts are your friends. >> Yeah. >> So, I'll go with you on that, Ken. You need to gather more facts. Yeah.

>> But, um I I I just sensing an emotional

reaction >> to a situation that's not that the emotions don't match the facts that I've been given. >> Yeah, that's right. >> I think that's absolutely right. And and it and let me tell you, when you get stolen from, whether it's out of your yard or out of your closet, it it's emotional. >> It's a there's a sense of violation.

>> Yeah. >> That especially when it's in your personal residence that um is a big

deal. I mean, um >> and you know, some people in some areas are more than others, but um she's a southerner, he's a southerner, I'm a southerner. We don't put up with this crap. We we got no this law and order stuff is a big deal to people like us.

So yeah, I get it. I understand that.

But it but I I kind of think moving is a little bit of an overreaction to the information I've been given. >> I agree with that. >> So but I do I'll go with you. Let's gather some more facts.

>> And based on the facts make the decision, Ashley. That's what I'm talking about. >> Yeah. >> But the facts you gave us do not indicate selling the house.

>> Yeah. >> That's what I'll go with. All right. Uh anyway, that's the deal. Let me put that back on hold. We don't got a second time. So, that's interesting. I haven't had that in a long time. Uh, but it does remind you that you need to do stuff like um uh your your property and

casualty. You need to know what's going on with your homeowners insurance point.

>> What what is covered because most homeowners insurance policies cover contents for theft and fire as a general

amount. If you have an expensive item or two, which this would not be, this would have been covered under the thing I'm talking about. But like say for instance you knew somebody had too many guns, >> you'd want to list those as a separate schedule >> and pay a little extra premium to cover the gun collection. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That kind of a thing.

>> And let's talk about home security, which >> I should I said that wrong. There's no such thing as too many guns, but if you had if you knew someone that was trying to attempt to hit that number.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I would beef up security and let these guys know we're not going to put up with this. I think there's steps you can take before selling the house. >> Yeah. the little sign that says you're on video so we can have the tape of when we shot you. >> Yeah, that's right. So it'll hold up in a court of law.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

Shay is with us in Canada. Hi Shay, welcome to the show. How can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, kind

of a quick question, I hope. Um, I I

can't use the premium version of Every Dollar because I'm waiting for you to drop it in Canada, but until then, I'm trying to manually use it.

>> Yeah, Canada's Canada's waiting for us to conform to crap we're not going to conform to. So it's not my fault. It's Canada's fault. But anyway, >> I Oh, I believe it. I'm American actually. I just live there. Um, but so

I have an emergency fund. I'm a single mom and with my two kids, I try to keep

a couple syncing funds because like I

have like an SOS fund I call it. Um, and it's about $1,000 and that's just for like a light emergency like, oh, my kid,

you know, needs to go to the dentist for something and it's going to cost me $600. So, I have like that set aside.

And then I have like a $500 scing fund for like I call it kid crap. It's just kid stuff. Like um back >> both of these got got used by the kids.

What happened? I'm confused.

>> Well, they always need stuff. So, >> yeah. Why don't you just put that in a budget? Um, I don't because I was trying to keep it separate. So, >> no, I'm just saying you need to put the kid crap in the budget. That's part of operating your household.

>> Okay. So, not like a sinking fund. Just >> Well, you can have a sinking fun. You can have an emergency fund, but the kids should not be creating emergencies. You should have a predictable environment.

>> They are so unpredictable.

>> No, they're not. >> I raised three of them.

>> They They become very predictable when you start telling them, "No, it's not in the budget cuz you didn't tell me about it." I know, but they like he loses a shoe

and then he I'm short a shoe and now I have to go pay $40 to get a pair of shoes. It's it just I feel like every week I'm getting slapped with something from them. >> Kids clothing has events like that and that should be in your budget.

>> Okay, >> that's not an emergency. A lost shoe is not an emergency.

>> How do you budget for something that's so flexible like that? You set aside an

amount because throughout the year you're going to have a kid tear up a piece of clothing, lose a piece of clothing, lose a shoe. That's part of having kids. They forget stuff and leave it laying around. And uh every weekend when the grandkids leave the lakehouse, we have to load a bucket full of stuff they forgot to take home and I bring it back to the office and give it out to the different kids here.

So they kids just leave stuff. I got I got Crocs, I got swimsuits, I got sunglasses, I got all kinds of crap and I'm bringing it all back every time. So, um so they can leave it again the next weekend. But that that I get you.

>> Yeah. And that's that's where I'm feeling the pressure cuz I feel like I'm living paycheck to paycheck because >> What do you make? >> I >> um about 6,000 take-home

>> a month.

>> Yeah. Okay. All right. 72,000 a year.

All right. You ought to be able to live on that.

>> I Yeah, I have I I live in expensive city, so I have about 4,100 going out

and I'm trying to do the debt snowball.

So then I feel like when I have to use money for the kids or an a minor

emergency, one of the rules, put the money back. So the again the one of the rules of your budget is your budget has to reflect reality not what you wish reality is >> and what you wish reality is is that the kid didn't tear up or leave lose pieces of clothing but they do cuz they're kids and so you're just going to have to say all right the kids clothing budget includes some loss >> okay >> and you just you're not you're not budgeting enough for kids clothes >> and so you need to change your budget and it reflects reality then and also I'm going to come down on them if they're constantly losing and stuff.

I mean, if you lose something expensive like, you know, you lose a couple, you know, one of two Air Jordans, I mean, we're going to have a problem in this house. Okay. So, >> yeah, we stop with the There's no Air Jordan. >> I know, but I'm just saying if they're doing something that's way irresponsible.

They're being raised by a single mom, a warrior princess, and she's trying to get jobs done so they can conform and have a little bit more discipline, be a little bit more responsible, too. That's okay to call them out on that. But overall, it sounds like you're just not reflecting the reality of your life in your budget. So, here's an example we used to do, Shay, that was similar, and we had to correct it.

That's how I know it. Okay.

but I was in denial about it.

And so, the the repairs always landed in the emergency column. And they weren't really emergencies. They were really predictable.

And so what I did finally after I admitted to myself that that's what was going on is if I'm going to drive a car that breaks down, I'm going to have to have more in the repair car repair line

item in my budget so that I don't get bit by this.

>> Yeah. I mean, we had uh we have three kids and uh the boys were growing rapidly and so we got we had to sit down and adjust our budget and we looked at, okay, what do we think uh the entire year, all three kids, what do we think we're going to put out for clothing? And it's a very simple process. You just got to try it and get it right, get it wrong, and then, you know, divide it by 12.

And to Dave's point, you're putting that away. So that's no longer stress for you. It's really simplifying. And right now, it feels complex because you haven't allowed for it.

So then something pops up and now it's creating stress. So simplifying, as Dave told you, is also going to take away that emotion that you're feeling like, "Oh, I can't keep up with this." When in all reality, you can. >> Yeah. It's very doable.

Sarah's in Milwaukee. Hi, Sarah.

>> Hi, I'm doing great. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I have been listening to your show for the last few weeks and really trying to sit down and think about next steps.

>> Cool. >> And my husband and I just got married in January. >> We bought our home about a year ago

>> and just trying to figure out everything financially. Right now, I have 10,000 in

savings and kind of just going through all my debt and kind of just saying, "Okay, what should I tackle first? What about retirement?" Like, there's just so many questions, but really just what to battle first. >> Okay. All right. Um,

how much debt do you guys have?

>> So, right now, uh, 15,000 in credit card

debt. >> Mhm.

11,000 I still owe on my car. He does not owe anything on his.

>> I have 30,000 left in student loan.

>> Um our home we put 50,000 down so we

don't have any PMI. So we owe 170.

>> Good. >> On our homes. >> What's your household income?

>> It is 140,000 combined right now.

>> Phenomenal. Way to go. You guys got a great start. just like you said, you've got to clean up some debt. So, um what Sarah, what we've been teaching for a long time to great success is the simple

concept of the fastest way to become

wealthy is to quit giving your money to everyone else in the form of debt.

Your most powerful wealth-b buildinging tool is your income. And when you give it all away to student loans, credit cards, and car payments, you don't have any money to become wealthy with or to be generous with. Pretty simple math thing, okay? If you give your money away, you don't have as much. It's that simple, right? So, we got to get rid of that blocker that's blocking you from becoming wealthy. You make a good income. You have the opportunity to join hands literally and figuratively and

financially with the person you just married. So the two of you can sit down tonight and say we are going to together

set some goals and we're going to attack this debt so that we can become wealthy

so that we can live like no one else so that later we can live and give like no one else so we can have a great life in other words. Okay. So, all of that, that's the underlying premise. And then what we figured out is that >> people need an order to attack these things. And somewhere around 30 years ago, we started teaching people to work what we call the baby steps. You may have heard that already. >> The baby steps are first thing you have is $1,000 in the bank. You've already got 10,000.

>> Okay? But a th000 is all you need for right now. So, we're going to take nine of that and apply it to baby step two.

Baby step two is you list all of your debts, smallest to largest. You pay

minimum payments, the normal payment on everything but the little one. And you attack the little one with everything you can squeeze out of your budget and with $9,000.

So, I'm going to take the first $9,000 of your smallest credit cards and pay them all off and cut them up tonight with your husband and I'm going to have $1,000. Then, I'm going to beat the snot out of this debt in the next in 6 months and get rid of it. All of it. And then when you don't have any payments, I'm going to build an emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses.

Take the $1,000 account, raise it back up to a good solid savings account. Then baby step four, start putting 15% of your income away for retirement. If you do this, in 7 to 10 years, you will be debtree house and everything and have close to a million dollar net worth. I'll show you how to do it.

[Music]

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[Music]

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. A lot of drama around real estate.

And as Dr. John Deloney says, when you're facing drama or a crisis, facts are your friend. So, what are the facts in the real estate business? Not what is somebody on Tic Tac saying. What are the actual facts? not what your broke mother-in-law with an opinion said. What are the actual facts about real estate?

Well, the facts are there's 1,82,520

homes on the market in the United States right now. That is the highest inventory

of homes for sale available since 2019.

However, demand is still exceeding the

inventory. So that means prices have not

gone down nor will they unless inventory

exceeded demand. That's the only time you see prices drop in any commodity including housing. So these are basic facts and the median home price today is

$441,000 in America. It's gone up just a tiny bit

every month this year. Like $1,000 or

something. Nothing. So, but home prices are steady to trending barely up. Those

are the facts. The facts are interest rates are exactly where they were, 5.95

right now. So, under 6% for a 15-year

fixed rate. So, all in all, it's really good time to buy a piece of real estate or sell a piece of real estate if you're ready. If you're out of debt, you got your emergency fund, you got a down payment. All in all, that's the facts.

You're okay. And if you need to sell a house right now, it's nothing to panic about. There's people buying houses and you know it's happening. So if you want to learn more about all this, go to ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes and we'll help you out that way. Ashley's in Pittsburgh. Hey Ashley, what's up?

>> Hi Dave and Ken. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. My husband and I are both Yeah, my husband and I are both in our mid30s and just had our first baby. >> Yay. >> I'm currently on maternity.

>> Very exciting. Um, I'm currently on maternity leave and trying to decide whether to go back to work or stay home with our baby. Um, financially we can afford for me to stay home. We're debtree, including our home, have an emergency fund, and we've been pretty disciplined about saving and investing.

Um, but we're torn because of a couple of other factors. The first is that we both work in tech, and with how fast AI is moving, we're concerned that our jobs could change or even disappear in the future. So, part of us feels like we should double down on income and savings now while we can.

>> Um, so my question is, since we can afford either path, how would you think through this decision?

>> Well, first question I have is forget everything you just threw out in those two concern buckets. What does your heart want to do? Okay. What do you want to do? Let's start there. Ideal.

>> Sure. I guess I nothing could replace the time with our children or our future children. Um so, you know, my heart's leaning towards staying home with >> All right. So, we start there. That's your that's your ideal situation. Now, uh let's take the first bucket. You both work in tech. AI is what you're thinking about because everybody's wondering how is AI going to shake out? How is it going to affect tech jobs? Will it spin off new jobs? Um, one of the things I

would do because you're both in tech and you have knowledge of where tech is now.

You probably have knowledge of where you think it's going. People that maybe more advanced than you guys are. I would be talking getting a lot of feedback almost like a Halloween uh candy bucket knocking on doors getting a lot of candy. I'd get a lot of real legitimate feedback, not headlines, not people that are driving clicks.

And I would I would look at what does the future look like personally. I was on Fox Business probably three weeks ago. One of the topics they asked me about uh was what do I think about AI and it removing jobs? And that morning I had done some research and I went all the way back to the printing press in history.

I'll save you the entire study that I did in about 30 minutes. And I looked at what the media of the day and what the

hand ringing and the pearl clutching of the day was around all these advances in technology from the printing press to where we stand today. And here's what's crazy, Ashley. It all sounded the exact same. The alarm was it's going to kill jobs. And throughout history, what we saw is it there was some recession of jobs in the immediate, but it always spun off more jobs. And I think AI is

going to do the same thing. And and that's just me doing some historical homework and and talking to people that are experts in the industry. And I think it's going to spin off a lot. So that but do your own homework on bucket one.

Bucket two is can I reenter let's say 18

years from now if I want to? and and I've coached a lot of moms on this particular issue and the answer is you can. Now, will you have to get some

additional qualification if the puck has

moved over 18 years and it's understandable that it might yes but to

be completely outdated. I'm not valuable. I have no skill. I have no experience. That's a bunch of garbage and that's not true. So with staying a

uh kind of a finger on the pulse uh

maybe 14 years in and going okay I think four years from now I feel good I want to come back. You got enough time to upskill and if you keep relationships I think you'd be fine. That's my take on those two buckets. >> Yeah. Take a out of it. If you went back

just 10 years and you stepped out of the technology market and you try to step back in today, you'd have to retool,

>> right? >> 10 what you would be, you know, what were we using 10 years ago? Coal fusion.

Nobody uses coal fusion today. And so

you would have been you probably if you were doing if you're writing code, you might have been proficient in coal fusion, which is now a dinosaur. Nobody uses it. >> Okay? You know what I'm talking about, right? And so, and you know, by the way, nobody's very few people are housing servers in their offices anymore. 10 years ago, I had a I had a room with a air conditioner in it full of servers.

Today, I don't have one. Everything's in the cloud. And I've got a much bigger operation than I did 10 years ago. So, technology shifted in hardware, software, line, uh, you know, the internet. So anytime something comes along that is a disruptor and that has a high rate of change like technology does like the internet the appearance of the internet was supposed to put entire segments of the culture out of business. Instead it created to Ken's point a lot of new jobs. Uh there was no such thing

as a someone who built websites prior to

the internet. And while the internet might have put out some kind of job it created a whole bunch of people that built websites. And there was no such thing as email. Um, and so, you know,

did the postal carriers all go out of business? No, not because of email, you know. And there was no such thing as and keep filling in the blanks. So, 100%

chance the knowledge that you have today, whether you stay in the market or whether you go home, the knowledge you're using today is going to be irrelevant 10 years from now.

>> Right. Yeah. So either way, you're going to either stay up with the market by staying in the market or you're going to retool when you get ready to head back into the market. So given all of that, if I'm you and hearing what you said about wanting to be at home, I'm staying home. The only thing driving you to not stay home is fear about your career. And

fear is not a good decision-making tool.

And in this case, it's not accurate because you have to you're going to have to stay up with change or retool to hit change no matter what. We live in the highest rate of change environment in the history of mankind.

The change rate in transportation in the last 50 years, the change rate in communication in the last 50 years is more than the 500 years previous.

So that that's the environment that we all live in. And so he who hates change is screwed.

That's what it amounts to. You better embrace it. And I hate it. I'm like everybody else. I don't They just put new I just got another computer and they put new stuff on my computer and I'm pissed off again trying to figure out how to run it, you know, and it takes me a little while to get through the frustration of the learning curve. And then they'll give me another it'll be um download for Apple version 87.46

or whatever the crap it is. And now I got to now my iPhone doesn't work anymore the way it used to. Now I got to figure out all that cuz they were trying to help me. You're killing me. But that's the world we all live in is this rate of change. If I had sat down in

1975 in a car that I drive today, I

wouldn't have known how to start it.

[Music]

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[Music]

Brandon's in Knoxville.

Hi Brandon. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey Dave, good to talk to you. How you doing? better than I deserve. How can I help? >> Um, I just had a pretty quick question.

Um, I me and my wife uh decided that

we're going to sell our house and be moving back to our hometown in Florida.

Um, our house is actually listed below

the median price here in East Tennessee.

Um, and in almost three months, we've

only had four showings.

And I was just wondering if you thought that was normal.

>> No.

Well, I mean it depend what what's the price?

>> Um the price of our house right now is 3649.

>> Okay. And what are the comp what are the comparable sales in your area? I couldn't give a crap less what the median price in East Tennessee is because there's million-doll houses and there's $100,000 houses and there's neighborhoods associated with both. What is your house appraised at? So, our

house was appraised at about around 400

is what it was appraised at >> by who? >> Um, and then when she uh our realer did comps on it, um, she said that listing

at 399 was an accurate pricing.

>> Um, which again, it's more than fair

because, uh, we bought during 2020. Um, so it's more than >> What are the pictures? What do the pictures look like? The pictures they took and put on the internet. We we uh we got a professional photographer. Um

he did the whole new 360 camera walkthrough thing. >> Yeah. Did he expose the ugly? I mean, is the house ugly from the street?

>> No. I mean, everything looks great. I've put a lot of work into it. I've re redone just about anything you can imagine in it. Everything looks good. The landscaping looks good. Um we just

we've only gotten four showings and I'm just I >> Are you in Are you in an outlying area?

Um, I'm actually right by one of the major airports over here. Um, pretty

much near right next to the city of Knoxville. I mean, we're in a great location. It's right next.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you're not in Knoxville.

You're in Alcoa.

>> Oh, yeah. They uh the girl asked and I think she's >> That's okay. That's fine. I'm just I I was born in Mar. I was born in Marville.

>> So, >> Oh, were you really? Wow. Okay. >> Yeah. So, I actually know where you are.

Um the um hm

>> well that market's booming. That market in that topside road, all that stuff is booming. And you know, you've had a lot of good industry move in there. Um and

and so there shouldn't and your price you are a um you know, mid-range price and that thing should Yeah, you're not there's a problem. Have you asked the real estate agent why it's not being shown? I'm sure you have.

>> I've asked And here's another question I had. Um, do you think a month and a half

to do the first open house was way too long? >> Open houses usually don't sell anybody but the seller.

>> Okay. >> Number of times you sell a house at an open house is fairly low.

>> I'm wondering if if if your real estate agent um, how many houses did your real estate agent sell last year?

>> Uh, I'm going to be completely honest with you. I don't know. It's a family friend that I went with.

>> Well, what was her answer? You you never answered uh Dave's question on what did she say? >> Why did she say it's not selling? >> Yeah. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Um >> that's okay. >> You just said to be patient. She said it's the market that's being slow. Um, I

ended up uh doing my own comps with actually a a friend of mine uh that does

real estate and uh they actually two of

them and they both said they uh don't have any idea why in the world it wouldn't even get more than 10 showings by now.

>> So, it's not we don't think it's price.

We don't think it's ugly. We don't think it's the location. >> Not ugly. >> We don't think it's the location. It's not far out. >> Location is good. Um, should they be doing more uh online advertising or how should a realer be doing that?

>> Yeah, here here's what I'm concerned about. The the only other thing I can think of is um when you said family friend, I I went gulp because that's not how you select a real estate agent. You select a real estate agent by getting a high octane, high protein, high performer because this is a huge asset

and you're hiring a marketing consultant and they need to actually sell like, you

know, 50 to 200 houses a year or you shouldn't be using them to sell your house. So, I'm afraid this person might be selling three houses a year and there's no personal momentum around them, around their company, around their name. And so when another real estate agent that is high octane sees that sign versus a different sign, they're they're not giving it due because the person that's got it listed. I'm afraid you got a weak sister, so to speak, with a sign in the yard.

So, um, you might want to change just on that basis. And not not because I don't think they're doing horrible, but I just don't think they're doing it. And you've obviously said that and you've got that concern. So, I I think you just call them up and say, "Hey, listen.

Um, in in the name of preserving our friendship, I'm becoming very frustrated and I think we need to separate. I know you tried. Thank you for that, but I need to try something else now.

So, we're going to we're going to try something else. And thank you for trying. >> Yeah, fair enough. I agree. And I I messed up because uh this is the first house I've ever had to sell. So, I've never had to do that before. >> Okay. That's okay. A lot of people do this. It's the they're um you know, but

if I hired you, if you worked for me and you were to select a consultant to assist with a $400,000 asset, and you

selected a consultant who doesn't do it very much, I would fire you.

>> See what I'm doing?

>> Because you hired somebody that's not got a proven track record in the marketplace. So go to ramsysolutions.com and click on real estate. Find one of the Ramsey trusted real estate agents.

There's several in your area. Interview two or three of them and interview them like you're hiring a marketing consultant that you're going to pay 20 grand to cuz you are.

And so you ought to get you ought to they ought to come in with a presentation about how awesome they are and how much volume they move and what the marketing plan is to move your property. And they ought to earn your business by their professionalism and their productivity.

And that's how you would hire a good marketing consultant. That's how you hire a real estate agent. So 85% of the

real estate agents, people are not in the business three years after they start. The average income earning of a

real estate agent in America today is $36,000.

Because they go get their license and they sell one or two houses a year.

You do not want those people selling your house.

I don't care if it's your uncle Charlie.

He's sweet Uncle Charlie. He sucks as a real estate agent. I don't care if it's Gilda down at the church. I'm sure Gilda's a sweet little church lady, but she sucks as a real estate agent.

>> You don't hire Gilda. That's not Don't hire Uncle Charlie. Don't hire Gilda.

>> I agree. >> And we people do this all the time. And and sometimes the people that get their license and their brand new friends and their old friends and new licenses, they get pissed off if you don't use them.

I've had a real estate license since I was 18. I listed our house with one of our Ramsey trusted things people many years ago and one of our friends got mad at me and I'm like, well, there's like three people in line in front of you. A, the guy who listed it. B, me with a license before we would get to you who doesn't sell any houses. So, you just sit over there in your house and be pissed off. That's just dumb. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> So, no, we're not doing that. That's so but that's Brandon. You did what everybody else does and so I think you just go gently and kindly correct the

situation, interview like you were hiring a professional marketing consultant for a piece of real estate cuz that's what a real estate agent is.

And then you get someone that you can connect to and that is very convincing of their productivity and their proclivity, their competence, their high octane. they move property and someone

wants to sell a house, then maybe they ought to have sold a house >> like 50 times last year >> or a hundred times last year. >> You know what stuck out to me is the first answer to Brandon's question, legitimate question was be patient. That tells me that the reason that she said to be patient is because she's a little too patient. I'm thinking of the lady that Stacy and I have used for a long time.

She's one of the top producers in all of Tennessee, top two or three in this area.

That's a warning sign. And that, to your point, is a wiring issue. It's a results

issue. >> Yeah. >> And listen for things like that. >> It might not be the real estate agent here. It might not. >> We don't know. This could be a high producing real estate agent. We don't have the numbers on this agent, but we do know he's unhappy with her. So, let's let's change horses. Yeah, it's okay.

Nothing wrong with that.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at825-55225.

Nicole is in Colorado. Hi Nicole. How are you? >> I'm well. How are you doing today?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um so I had a question about kind of

like an in between baby step thing. So essentially we have a couple larger

lumpsum um amounts that should be coming uh into our session within the next few months. And I wanted to know whether I should just throw all of it to the remaining student loan debt, which is the only debt we have, or if we should split it, putting some towards a potential down payment and then the rest towards the student loan. Um, kind of building both things simultaneously.

>> So, how long have you been working to get out of debt?

>> Um, relatively recently. Um, my student loans were in deferment with the all the

COVID stuff and everything like that.

Um, and then my husband uh the union contract through his job finally reached an agreement. Um, so he has a bunch of back pay coming in and we have a sizable um, uh, tax return

>> that should be coming in. Uh, and so it

will >> So you just started a system and then I'm going to poke at you. Are you ready to be poked? Oh yeah.

>> And then your first thing is to cheat the system.

>> Uh via the home buying process.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You don't need to be buying a house till you're out of debt. And so we need to put it all on the debt so we can get the debt cleared. >> How much debt? How much debt do you have? >> Less than 24,000. It's >> And how much is all this back pay and taxes amount to?

>> Um it should reach about 25.

>> Oh, so you can pay everything off.

The other issue is that we have two vehicles that are completely paid off.

You know, old buy outright sort of things, but they need some work. So, there's no way I can actually put all of that into the debt because >> are they not running?

>> Well, they are functional, but >> good. Put it all on the debt.

>> Quit screwing around with this. Get out of debt. It's the thing holding you back from everything. Now that you're out of debt, what's your household income?

>> Uh, let's see here. our household income

uh before after taxes and insurance and such. Um afterwards would be take home of 53,000 roughly.

>> Okay. But you're but you had insurance coming out of that and taxes too much in taxes coming out because you got a tax refund. >> Oh, so before taxes and insurance it's about 71. >> Okay.

All right. And so what what repairs need to be done to the car and what do they cost? Um, so I just called and got a quote the other day for the biggest thing, which is like the timing belt and water pump. And then I also have an O2 sensor which is affecting um acceleration.

>> And so that should probably come out to be about 25 to three grand or >> O2 sensor is not that. The timing belt is >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. But the timing belt is the bigger.

>> Yeah. Run get the O2 sensor fixed out of your budget and then start saving in the next month. go ahead and do the timing belt. You can do it in a month, >> okay? >> And let's get them fixed and get them going. Keep keep things running. Now you're out of debt. Then you need to build your emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses and then you need to save for a down payment.

>> Okay. >> And that's what we teach. And you already knew that.

>> Yeah. I was trying to listen to as many as possible to kind of get an idea if anybody else asked my exact same question or not. No, I mean you you knew the process though was that we get out of debt and have an emergency fund before we buy a house, didn't you?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Well, yeah. >> Yeah, you knew that. And you you've been listening long enough to know that part.

And so, let's just stick to that. And that's going to be your shortest distance to getting a home in a situation where the home is not creating stress and instead is a blessing.

>> Okay. >> I want you to get a house. I don't want the house to get you, kiddo.

>> Yeah. Well, particularly since we're not exactly on the higher range of income, so it's not exactly like we're affording a fancy totally redone.

>> Make sure you don't have How many years in a row have you got tax refund?

>> Um, so this is probably the fourth.

>> And how much has been your tax refund?

>> Um, let's see. Last year was about 11,000. >> Okay. What that means is they're taking almost $1,000 a month too much out of your checks >> and then they give it back to you a year later with no interest.

>> Yeah. Well, particularly since the W2 has not been amended to account for the children we have had, >> you need to amend the W2 to account for $10,000.

$800 $850 a month needs to come home more than is coming home now.

>> Oh, that would be substantial. >> That'll help your budget. See, and that'll pay for the timing belt and everything else. You don't need to have a savings account with the IRS. That's what a tax refund is.

>> Yes. >> Monthly, you make a deposit into the IRS and at the end of the year they give you a tax refund. Santa Claus does not live in Washington. That's your money. Didn't come from him. I know him well. He lives in North Pole, not in DC. Matter of fact, he's like most of us. He doesn't even like DC. So, yeah, that's fun. Kid,

you're going to do great. Stick with the system. Let me send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. you and your husband both go through that and both of you hold hands and get dialed in and really focused maybe for the first time in your lives on the details of this stuff and then work those baby steps. Exactly.

And that'll get you a home that's a blessing faster than anything else. You know, Ken, I was uh on a guy's podcast a while back who's very successful and he surprised me um when he said um

you know I've known you he I've known him for a decade and he goes I've never done your stuff till about two years ago and he goes I finally started doing it and I did it exactly in detail the way

you teach and he goes the progress we've made is in a short period of time enormous and then he said something that kind of shocked me. He said, "My problem was I refused to submit myself

to a system." >> That's right. And I thought that's an interesting word choice because that's, you know, I if you bring in a personal trainer and they have a six-pack and you got a keg, you have to submit yourself

to their advice and their eating pattern

that they're suggesting, their workout pattern that they're suggesting because they have a six-pack, you got a keg. So,

you need to know that they know something you don't know. And you don't need to tell them how to do this. They know how to do it.

>> Yeah. And the guts interesting. It is interesting. And the guts of this is focused discipline. That's the key. I I

also want to give Nicole u your quick

read the the momentum theorem because I I think that's fabulous. You know what I mean? To just really understand the power of that and then get into the baby steps. It's quick read. >> Okay. You know, because what you're teaching here for her. She's been listening, but she really needs to understand what makes the baby steps so powerful is that it is exactly the illustration you used. It's like a trainer who's going to come in and be very focused on nutrition plus exercise.

We're going to work on >> am I going to do it?

>> That's the issue. You got to submit to, as your friend says, >> because none of us I don't like that word. >> No, >> I don't want to submit to nothing.

>> Well, it takes our illusion of power away. >> Yeah. I don't want to um I don't want to submit myself to what what's that? No, no, thank you.

>> I feel like I'm bowing down or something, you know? >> It's a weird word, >> but what it means is I'm admitting that my plan is not working and I need to try yours.

>> That's what I'm admitting when I do that. And that was interesting.

>> And he said it made huge progress after that. >> Yeah.

[Applause]

[Music]

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[Music]

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Antonio is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Antonio. How are you?

>> Hey, doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome. Thanks for taking my call. Um, I was uh curious. I have a small um

power washing business that I'm hoping to be able to do full-time next summer, and my wife and I are still in baby step two. We were not sure if we should uh

put money away for like a larger emergency fund to cover expenses uh for

the business and as well as home. Um since I'll be like fully self-employed over the summer next year. >> What do you make in your at your regular job now?

>> Uh at my regular job, we bring home

around just over $8,000 uh a month.

>> You or you and her?

>> Uh my wife and I. >> What do you make? You're the one that's going to quit. >> Uh about 6,000.

>> So you're going to make $72,000 a year with pressure washing profit.

>> Uh well, sorry. So I I drive school buses uh during the school year and so in the summertime we find our own work and that's kind of what I was hoping to do um like in the in the meantime

basically over summer. Um so I wouldn't be like full-time throughout the whole year. It's just in the summertime that's when we're busiest power washing. >> Okay. What were you doing in the summer?

This summer I actually uh picked up a concrete uh truck driving job >> with my CDL and that's that's paid well.

What did you make >> that again? And uh that's that sorry that's when I'm bringing that's when I'm bringing 6,000 >> uh from is the is a concrete.

>> Okay. So for three months so 18,000 bucks you've got to make in pressure washing to offset the concrete truck job. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Is in the in the summertime only. Am I right? Am I hearing all that?

>> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. And what do you make driving a school bus?

>> Uh, that fluctuates because we we kind of can do as much overtime as we want, but it's probably closer to about 5,000 a month. >> Okay. 9 months a year.

>> Correct. >> Okay. All right. Good. So, Ken and I teach with small business ideas that you want to pull the boat close to the dock

um before you jump in. But this is not that big a deal because it's only for 3 months. So you don't really have to have a big emergency fund. You just need to get busy in the spring and line up a

whole bunch of jobs. Listen, so when is the last day you drive in May?

>> Uh the last day would be I think it's May May 20th, something like that.

>> So the 1st of May, I want you to start

calling on people and setting up jobs to begin on the 20th. And I want you to

fill up um the 10 days of May and all of

June before May 20th. I want you to

fully do your marketing and book up the first month of work solid.

>> Okay. >> All right. And you already have the equipment, right?

>> Correct. Yeah. I have a paid for trailer, all the equipment. Yeah.

>> All right. And so so I want you to book up. And so here's what happens during

the month that you are doing that work.

you go and get the other two months booked up. If at any time you don't get

something booked up, you got to shut down and go do something else.

>> So, if during the 20 days of May that we

are driving a truck and booking up and at night knocking on people's doors and getting pressure washing jobs or whatever you're going to do to get the jobs, if during that 20 days you can't get that month full, you have to go drive concrete truck instead.

>> Okay? So you have to prove this business

idea or not do it.

>> Does that make sense? >> Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. That would also be more peace as well because then I'm not stressed if >> you don't need any emergency fund to do what I'm talking about.

>> Correct. Yeah. >> All you need is business.

>> Yep. >> And a plan and a plan B if business doesn't hit. >> Uh two questions. How many hours are you

working on average? Because you mentioned overtime. How much are you working? Uh when driving the school bus nine months a year, what's an average week hours wise?

>> Uh my average Oh man, it was close to

like 50 55 hours um when I was picking

up all the overtime. >> Okay. The reason I asked >> five days a week, right? >> Yeah. The reason I asked that is I would also add to Dave's advice. I'd be doing pressure washing on the weekends, Sunday afternoons, some Saturday mornings if you've got time, if you can handle that load. You may not be able to. Second question is, what is the the difference

in in rate per hour if I'm pressure washing for myself versus driving the concrete truck? What's the difference in hourly pay?

>> So, the the concrete truck is a 28 an hour uh right now. And like I there's

potential for raises of course next year, but um power washing I try to like

whenever I go give a quote I try to get somewhere around $100 an hour where I could take home like most of that.

>> Yeah. >> Uh since since I'm not putting any money into the business right now. It's all going to baby step two. >> Yeah. Okay. That's good. I I just wanted to know. So that means that means you're making almost 4x >> y >> per hour. So that means you could work one/4th the hours and make exactly the same money >> if the pipeline is full.

>> But you've got to get those hours booked. You got to get slammed. And if you can get yourself slammed 10 hours a day doing pressure washing for 3 months, you're going to make a pile of money.

>> Mhm. Yeah.

>> So, how have you been acquiring customers?

Um actually so um I the only most of the

customers I've been watching for this summer after like I'll do it after I drive the trucks. Um so I'm working a lot more. >> Good. >> Uh I partnered with an HOA from some someone who I know at church is the secretary for the HOA and she heard I had this the small business and offered to partner and um so we that's all it's

been is referrals within that neighborhood. It's a very large neighborhood and I haven't had to do door knockocking or anything. And thankfully people are just reaching. >> So what are you paying her?

>> Uh oh, I didn't I didn't pay her.

>> Oh, so when you say partner, you didn't partner. She she just was your source.

She helped you. >> Yeah, correct. Sorry. Yeah, they Yeah, they they like to have like local businesses that can come in. Like they have a landscaper. Yeah. And then they asked me to come in. So >> good. Good. Well, that's a great partner. I like that kind of partner.

>> Yeah, I was that was my first question.

What what's your what's her take on this deal? >> Okay. So, yeah, I think so. you've got a good source and if you start working that HOA leads and even people you worked for last year and swing back around say, "Hey, I'm going to I'm going to gear up May 20. When can I put you on the schedule?" They're going to line up.

Right. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz I got a guy that hits my my lakehouse uh which is known for mildew.

It's a lakehouse with pressure washing every spring and he's got pretty much a set gig. All we have to agree on is the day he's going to do it. He's got a set customer. as long as he shows up, does the work, charges me about the same.

Yeah. >> You know, he's been doing it for years for me. >> And great guy. And so, uh, that's who you are. You're that guy. So, you can create repeat business. It swings back around annually. >> And, you know, hey, you know, Antonio's

going to be ready to go here, baby. And we're going. And, uh, >> I I love this. I I didn't know the numbers on this.

Antonio, I gotta give you this. Take this or or leave it. Uh in my neighborhood, we saw an ad recently in the whatever the neighborhood newsletter is uh about a young guy who is going around pressure washing garbage cans, which you know can get pretty nasty. >> I'd add that to the thing.

You may be surprised. It might add a little 30 minutes to the deal. You're already there.

>> we need this kid to come over cuz it's disgusting these these garbage cans." >> Yeah. And she's like, "Ken, get out there and clean it up." >> No, she didn't. She knows better. I think she's given in after all these years.

My intentions will be good, but I'll get distracted on the way to the trash can and then come up with three other projects. It's usually my problem. But yeah, you're right. He's just out there powerwashing these trash. >> While you're there, add that as a, you know, for $25, we'll knock these out.

Because you'd be surprised how people will go because no dude that I know wants to spray out his garbage can.

>> So yeah, >> little upcharge. >> Yeah. Well, I mean he's in an HOA. He's in a neighborhood like yours. So there you go. Those rich people, they do all kinds of stuff.

>> Time is money, Dave. Somebody told me that once.

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Not available in all states. >> Today's question comes from David in West Virginia. I've recently learned that a couple of my employees mooch personal money from soft-hearted co-workers and aren't paying back what they've borrowed in a reasonable amount of time, if ever. While it may just be a couple of hundred dollars of personal money, I'm afraid of negative culture developing in the workplace. Do I have a right to address the situation since it's between them personally and the business isn't really involved?

Um,

do I have a right? Yeah, I think you do in the sense of these are people that you're employing and it's now becoming

an issue that is going it's not a gossip

issue. This is a fact at least you're outlining in a way where you know this is a fact and it's rising up to you and this affects the actual team dynamic and

I think um I think talking to uh the

people that are loaning the money is probably where I would start. I think anytime you've got a situation like this where you've got people just with bad behavior where they're loaning I mean they're borrowing basic small amount of money and not paying it back that's just irresponsible and to me that's a sign that they shouldn't be working for you.

So I would be addressing that issue. Um

not so much getting into all these details. Um I would kind of end around it instead of sit down with these people like they're little kids. I may be wrong on that. You may have a different approach, but I would probably address the fact that there's a character problem here and it's been made aware to me that's a character problem and I don't want people working for me that have character problems.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You don't have a right, you have an obligation. >> That's Yeah.

crap is happening under your leadership and if you don't do anything about it, you suck as a leader. So, you've got to do something about it. Now, then the question becomes, how heavy-handed are you? Yeah, that's what is the and what

is it that you do?

>> So, if it's a couple hundred bucks, I'm probably starting with the two people loaning money. I'm going to give them both a total money makeover book. Pay for them to go to Financial Peace University and uh here's your $200 back

and don't ever loan anybody money again if as long as you work here. If you do, I'm going to fire you. >> I like that approach. >> And just make them whole. Yeah.

>> And then shut the shut down the source.

Then I'm going to the two or the the couple of people whoever it is that borrowed the money and didn't pay it back and say this is over.

If you borrow money from someone here at

the office or get money as a gift from someone here at the office again as long as you work here, it will be your last day. You're not doing this anymore. For

you to take money from someone that's hardworking and then not give it back to them as promised is a character problem.

It's almost stealing. You're pretty close. And so, no, you're not going to do that while you work here. I I want an environment where people feel safe, where people like each other, they trust each other. That's the culture that we're going to have. And that can only occur if you are worthy of trust. And so, I have paid them the money back. You don't owe them. You are forgiven the debt. But if you ever borrow a dime or

take a dime in charity from someone else that works here while you work here and I find out about it, it will be your last day. And I'd give them a zero tolerance. One one strike, you're out from here on. So they get a warning, they're whole. The other guy's whole.

Problem solved. It's over. And then I would make an I don't know how big an organization this is, but I would just make an announcement that just says, "Hey, um, uh, guys, sometimes people want to borrow money and stuff. I've made a decision that's not okay here." And if somebody comes to you to ask you to borrow money from them, it's not okay here. You don't need to loan people money that work here. Everybody here works too hard. Nobody here is rich.

Okay? So, don't get in that business.

And you guys quit trading dollars back and forth. You don't trade spit back and forth. You don't trade dollars back and forth. You work here.

This is what we're doing. Okay? And you know, just make a general announcement. Make a joke about it and move along.

And don't don't make a big thing like we've had this serious problem and I've addressed. I wouldn't do all that. Just make a general blanket quick statement. 30 seconds.

Hey, just want to let everybody know I've got a policy on this and I'm not okay with this and don't do it anymore if you were doing it. So, uh, we're done. And but you've already addressed the other people directly, individually and privately before you get there. But you have a responsibility.

It's not just a right. >> Yeah. >> A responsibility to for the people that work there. Okay.

So, let me give you another example, Ken.

do stuff in business >> because it's business and you're supposed to just keep it all business, right? >> Well, that's a bunch of horse crap.

Okay. So, I got,00 people here. I was standing lunch line a while ago getting a taco with a young guy who just got married to another person in the building. He met his new wife here. So now I have two team members that are married that work here. Okay. And he met her here. They just bought a house. Great little couple, sharpest attack, all that. That's the good story. The other story is when someone starts dating here and it goes bad.

>> Mhm. >> And then they feel threatened or stalked or whatever. Well, that's their personal life. You shouldn't get involved in that. Dad gum right I'm getting involved in it. It's a 26-y old, 25 year old young lady that feels threatened inside our building. Right.

>> Absolutely. I'm getting involved in it.

That's not happening here under my watch. I'm the leader of this organization. Her dad expects me to make

sure she's in a safe situation.

>> And I'm an old southern gentleman and we take care of the ladies. That's how we do it. It's an old school chivalry thing. And if you don't like that, get your butt out of here and don't let the door hit you as you go out. I couldn't care less. And so that's, you know, well, you don't have a right. No, I've got an obligation to her because I got to look her dad in the face if he stops by, visits one of these days and say, "Your daughter's safe here.

>> No doofuses are going to be around her." >> That's right. >> And so, yeah, it's not a it's not just a right. It's an obligation to create a safe, highquality culture. Well, you're getting involved in their personal lives.

That's none of your business. Dad gum right. It's my business. It happened on my watch, on my payroll inside my building.

That makes it my freaking business.

everybody says I don't have a right and you it's not just a right, it's an obligation. It's called leadership. So,

but I'm not going to that that's the heavy-handed part is running down your backbone, not at the employee.

>> That's correct. >> So, I'm going to soft pedal this with the employees, >> but you know, this thing of this is a

liberal left-wing garbage. I have the right to. >> Yeah. >> You know, let me just tell you about my rights. It's got my name on the side of the building. That's my right, right?

>> Okay. That means everything happens in here is my right. >> That's correct. >> And if you don't like it, hit the door.

I'm good with that. >> Yeah. You know, and that's how this thing works. And again, I'm not I don't talk to people that way directly, but that's the inner Dave going, "Yeah, I'm going to stand up, take care, and love the people that are inside of here, and this is a quality, high class where you can meet your wife, get married, buy your first house, and I get to meet you downstairs when we're getting a taco." And I'm happy and proud that that's the environment that that young man's in.

>> Yeah. And I and I love the example you give, Dave, because you do you do that, and I've seen you do that over 11 years.

And and what's funny is the people that would attack that, it's not funny. The irony is the people that would attack that are the ones that would scream everyone needs rights and women's rights and all that. And actually when you defend someone who works for you from being stalked or from that is absolutely uh defending their right to come to work and be safe. >> Yeah. >> So the irony of the criticism of that of oh you've gotten involved in something personal. No. again they are a professional and to your point you are

responsible for a safe environment and I think that's a great juxtaposition on how you laid that out but the political correctness crap has invaded people that

own businesses and they don't they're even they're afraid to even operate their own business that's correct because I'm not sure I have the right by God you not only got the right you got the obligation Baby.

[Music]

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[Music]

Carara is in Indiana. Hi, Cara. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thanks for taking my call. Um, I'm a recent college grad and I paid out ofstate tuition for my degree. I kept my cost low and competed in three seasons of athletics and I earned about 15,000

in my sports scholarships. And then I also did honors college. I negotiated for more aid and applied for additional scholarships, saving around 25 to $30,000.

Um, my parents set up 529 plans for me and each of my siblings and they've always said the amounts were equal. They um chose expensive private schools and one has already overspent and is in grad school and the other is on track to do the same. I now live at home with my parents and I'm working. Um, while building a budget, I started to contribute to I plan to start contribute to my 529 to grow it for either my future education or if I decide not to go back, my child.

Um, I don't have any kids yet, but my future children. That's when this issue came up.

30,000 or more, but my parents won't tell me the exact balance. They're supportive if I go back to school, but they said no when I asked about saving it for my future children's ed education if I don't end up going back. I even once offered to give some to my siblings possibly, and they still said no. Um, and now they're considering using it for my dad's retirement. So, my question, how old are you?

>> I'm 22. >> Okay. Oh man, I'm so >> So I guess just >> Well, not number one, you've got to start looking for other housing, don't you?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. Number two, your

parents are in for a rude awakening. The 529's not under their control. It's under yours.

>> Do you have the account number?

>> I don't. No, I don't have any information on it. And from what everything they've told me, I'm just the beneficiary to it. No, that's not how it works.

>> Okay. >> A 529 is in your name and they are the custodians until you're 21.

So, this is just your money. Period.

>> Okay. >> They have absolutely no legal control over this at all.

And so, I would sit down and um what

what let's start let's back into this here. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to go to ramseyssolutions.com and click on smartvester pro. Okay? And

I want you to sit down with one of our Smartves pros in the investment world and let them assist you and see if you can find this account. If you can find it, just simply move it, >> okay? >> Out of their control. I mean, out of their hands where they can't find it, okay? Because it's simply not their money.

They funded it, but they it's not their money. That's the danger of a 529 or or an UTMA account. Either one. When you're 21, it is your money. Okay? And so

that's they they committed that money to you. They don't have options here. So I

I think that's right. And I think that's what you'll find. And I think you can just move it. Um, but um, if they're

going to steal 30,000 from you after you've put in all this effort to go to school with spending almost nothing, um, you should leave the home immediately.

>> Mhm. >> Are you employed?

>> I am. Yeah. I just started working and I'm looking to just save up money by living here for a year.

>> But this is a toxic situation.

You can't you can't you can't compartmentalize this kiddo.

Your mother and father are trying to steal money from you. That's what you described to me.

>> Yeah. And it's difficult because if I do decide to go back, then I don't want it to be an issue, but I'm also worried that if I don't that >> Yeah. No, I I want you I want you to find out immediately by meeting with the Smart Vster Pro. If you can find this money and if I'm correct >> that the uh 529 is in your name, then you just move it.

If you can find it, you just move it. Okay.

>> Mhm.

So, your parents are um

they're um

well, this is just it's just morally wrong.

That that's the kindest way I can say it. What they're proposing is morally wrong. When they saved money for your college and there's a balance left in the account because of your effort and they want to take that and use it and they even propose if it even came out of their mouth that they would say, "I'm going to take your money and use it for my retirement." I don't care if he put it in there or not. He put it in there for you and then you have been more responsible than the other side and in return you get your money stolen.

That's that's morally toxic and wrong.

>> Cara, you've mentioned >> I don't think I could look at them.

>> Yeah. Cara, you've mentioned a couple times I might go back. What would that What What is in your mind about that?

>> Um, so I'm a nurse and I'm looking to possibly go back for grad school, maybe a nurse anesthetist or nurse practitioner. >> Okay, both of those would be great.

>> Yeah, that's a good use of money there.

30,000 won't get either one of those though.

>> Yeah, but I figured it could help a little bit. >> Yeah. The reason I ask is I'm just trying to catch you on the front end of this. Save that money up.

You're making good money as a nurse. Uh so hopefully you get control of those funds. And if you make that decision, hopefully what we want is to see you save that up. Have a target.

>> Do not add anything to this 529 until you are in 100% control of it. And even then, I'm probably not going to add anything.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I don't think you need to add anything to this in any scenario, but you need to figure out if you can get control of it. And then you have need to once you do, you need to have a different conversation with your parents. And I'm out of there within 30 days if I'm you. And it's the only possible way you can maintain some kind of relationship with these folks going forward. Uh because they are, you know, that what they're doing is just really, really, really wrong. It's really toxic.

And so, >> yeah. Would you say there's a high rate of probability that if she were to pull off what you're advising her to do that they're going to be pretty upset about it? >> Oh, I'd say they're going to be so pissed they never speak to her again. >> That's what I thought, too. >> And I'm not sure that's a big loss.

>> It isn't. But I wanted her to hear that.

I wanted you to hear that, Cara, because there's really this thing's going south one way or the other. It's going to eat you alive or it's going to make them upset. You got to do what's right. And >> you may choose to walk away from this and just never look back. >> Yep. >> That may be your choice. But >> if you can get control of your money, I would. And I think I think you can.

>> I don't know if we can find it or not, but we got to get some clue as to where it is, but um maybe a Smart Mr. Pro can help you with that. I hope and they can advise you as to whether the advice I'm giving you is correct or not. I might not be correct. I'm sitting here spinning in my brain. I was real sure when I first said it. Now I'm starting to wonder if I'm right, but I think I'm right. So anyway, all right. Danielle's

in South Carolina. Hi Danielle. How are you? Oh, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. It's so good to speak to you.

>> You, too. I'm real short on time. Can you go straight to it, please?

>> Yes. Um, how to This is a big question.

I could ask something easy. How to save money at the the grocery store. I mean, I'm I'm working on uh getting married

next year. I'm engaged.

>> Good. >> So, just trying to figure out how to work through the finances.

>> Okay. getting on the same page with your fe potential fiance.

>> Yes. Well, he is my fiance.

You're not working on getting married. You're scheduled to get married. Okay.

>> That's right. >> So, all right. Yeah. I I think the way you work through with anyone is lots and lots and lots of communication about the subject.

>> The biggest thing with money is people don't talk about it until they talk until they're mad. And so, let's talk about it before we're mad. I want to talk to you about saving. I want to talk to you about debt.

I want to talk to you about a budget. I want to talk to you about combining our finances.

And I want us to be aligned on that. And so let's talk about it. And let's talk about it and let's talk about it. I hate debt. How do you feel? I love saving.

How do you feel? I love generosity. How do you feel? I want to be on a written plan that you and I are in agreement to.

I want us to combine everything and live our lives together like we actually love each other. If we're going to share a bed, we're going to share a checking account. And so what is the deal here?

and let's start talking that stuff through and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of communication on all that. And I'll tell you what, I'll give you a framework to discuss it with. It's called the total money makeover. I'll send you my copy of it for free as your engagement gift.

[Music]

[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of the new Ramsay hit on Ramsey Networks called Front Row Seat where he does long form interviews with uh famous and accomplished people where you can learn the principles from them.

You will love this show. He's my co-host today. The phone number is 888255225.

Gary is in Michigan. Hey Gary, what's up?

>> Oh, not too much. Dave, Ken, how are you guys today?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, well, I'm trying to get the gumption

to cancel uh a whole life policy. U been

listening to you guys for about 15 months. Uh, and I know I need to do it.

I just need to push. Um, the long story

short, I can give you a little context.

My dad was very financially successful.

Uh died about three years ago and uh I

had an annuity or he had an annuity um which was how he left me some money and there was a whole life policy that this guy who had the annuity um my dad had taken it out on me and there was some cash value there and he said well let's like you know set fire to the thing and essentially build a legacy um if that

makes sense. Uh build on your dad's financial legacy. Uh, unfortunately I did that before I found you guys. And so I'm just uh trying to deal with the emotional the emotions that come with uh with that if that makes sense. >> What are the emotions? >> Does that make sense? >> It does, but I What do you name these emotions?

>> Well, um, let's I don't I don't make a

ton of money. I work uh I work for a uh nonprofit Christian ministry. Um, and so

there's, let's just say that my dad like he was, he was very successful at what he did, ran his own business for a long time. Um, and so he kind of pitched it

in a way and made me think, oh, I'm I can take care of my kids the way my dad

took care of me. I can take care of myself. >> Yeah. But then you've discovered that that was not true. >> What is the emotion? I'm trying to help you. >> Are you pissed at him? >> Yeah. Are you afraid you're not going to live up to your dad's expectations and legacy? What is the emotion?

>> Um, I think it's I I'm not even I

wouldn't say I'm mad at the insurance agent. Um, though I mean, yeah, it's

fear mostly. >> Fear of what?

>> Um, fear of failing, I think. Um,

>> okay. Well, wait a minute. You have Let me stop. You figured out that if you

leave the money in this, you're going to fail.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And so if you pull the money out of it is your only option to not fail.

>> Um it feels that way. Yeah. I don't want to I'm I'm afraid of screwing it up a second time. Like I've already screwed up by getting this policy. Yeah. and was duped into it and now I fear that I'm not smart enough to do the right thing the second time. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. You lost confidence in yourself.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, here here's the answer. Here's the antidote to that. Okay.

>> We're not going to trust the agent and we're not going to trust Dave and Ken >> and just do what anybody says anymore.

Instead, you need to learn and understand >> and in make an intellectual decision as

to what the right thing is after gathering the facts.

>> And then based on that, >> see, before you went with the agent who used a power play off of your father's memory instead of facts to make a sale.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And I've given you facts. You've you've obviously looked at how bad a product whole life life insurance is and you've decided I want to invest my money somewhere else.

>> You've got to become confident in those facts for yourself. Not because I said,

but because they're facts.

>> And when you're confident in those facts, then this becomes what's going known as a no-brainer.

>> Okay. >> Yes, I I understand that.

>> But but that's that's the emotion. and the emotion is I I'm not confident yet.

I don't know if I understand this. I'm I don't know if I'm missing something. So, here's another thing, you know, continue to gather information. Go to go sit down with a Smart Investor Pro, have them walk through with you how bad this product sucks and then what you could do with it if it was in a good mutual fund.

>> Mhm. >> And then you will cash this crap out and tell this crook to go on his way.

>> Okay. That's that's hopeful to hear.

>> I mean, you know, if somebody's stolen money from you and you discover that you wouldn't you don't need it's not you're not fearful. You're like, I'm going to get the money back. That's not fear.

That's just I I made Yeah, you did make a mistake. That's okay. Everybody makes mistakes. By the way, I bought a whole life policy when I was 22. Okay.

>> Oh, really? >> Yeah. And that that's one of the ways I learned about this. I got screwed by a college friend of my wife's who came calling right after college and this sweet little married couple and sold me the same bill of goods that they sell everybody and I was I got a finance degree and I was so stupid I bought it.

So, you know, I'm no different than you, dude. But then when I looked at the facts, I went, "Okay, now I understand I screwed up and I'm going to fix my mistake and I'm never going to do business with, you know, those that type of a thing again." and instead I'm going to put money in real investments and I have for the next 42 years and it's

worked out good for me. So I I you know I learned from my mistakes but I wasn't

paralyzed by them and that's all I want you to do.

>> Yes. Yeah. I I appreciate that a great deal. Uh, I've just I realized it when I've heard this and I've seen like the math and I've thought, "What could I do with that if I just put it in my the cash value in my Roth and >> Oh god, you just make so much more money >> here." Exactly. Yeah.

>> It's just so much It's like It's a bazillion dollar difference.

>> Yes. Uh because I've seen the returns on those and I'm like, "Wait a second." Yeah. >> Uh I I've been duped.

>> You have been duped. You got duped for sure. Yeah. And and then I'm not having a discussion with a doofus life

insurance agent.

>> No is a complete sentence.

>> Yes, it is. >> You know, you are cashing this out. I'm not talking to you about it.

>> We're closing the account. And you can just call the home office, give them the account number, and send them a letter to close the thing out. You don't even have to talk to Dofus. But if Dofus calls you, you don't have to have a conversation with him. You're not required. It's not federal law to discuss stuff with people who stole money from you. >> Yeah. And I think there's >> No, it's not. >> I think you have a fear of confrontation if I had to bet.

>> Oh, I absolutely do. And uh I'm reading u Dr. John's book and this is part of choosing reality and choosing freedom.

I >> This is going to be a great exercise for you. >> It actually is. And you said you start off a call saying I needed gumption. I'm going to give you a triedand- trueue formula and Dave laid it out beautifully. clarity, which is Dave telling you to go sit with Smart Investor Pro and look at the historical data, not someone's opinion, not a sales

pitch from a whole life salesperson, but historical data of the stock market.

This is not debatable. That's clarity.

Now watch, clarity leads to confidence, which Dave mentioned. And then confidence leads to courage. That's the formula. Clarity gives me confidence.

And confidence gives me courage to step into confrontation to step into a future that I want to make and not worry about what everybody else thinks.

Yeah. My need to make that whole life agent happy is precisely negative -2

thousand

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Michael is with us in Minneapolis. Hey, Michael. Welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thank you. So to keep it

brief and straightforward, I am 22. I've

currently came into a career job of making 25 an hour and I come from a poverty lifestyle of uh bouncing around from homelessness, shelter, stuff like that. I've got a recent opportunity to live out here with my older sister and um took advantage of it. They got me a career job. But now I'm in the situation of I'm making more money than what I'm used to and what I know what to do with, which is roughly around $4,000 a month.

And to me, that's a lot of money coming from the lifestyle that I live. But I also cannot learn to apparently budget

my impulse control or my wants and needs. And not to mention the around I'd

probably say like $1,000 and something dollars in debt for just my medical bills alone. And I'm here seeking advice on how to learn to budget and what I should do >> to maintain it because I proud of you, Michael. Well done.

>> I'm so proud of you. Well done, >> man. That's amazing. You've made huge strides. Look at how far you've come.

I mean, $4,000 a month is never a problem you had before. Now it's a problem. I love this.

Ain't that great?

>> Yeah. And it is. I really appreciate that. >> I mean, that's great. I'm proud of it.

That's amazing. Good for you.

>> All right. So, all we got to do now is make this money behave. And the problem

with my money and the problem with Michael's money is the guy in the mirror. You've already identified that.

You said it very clearly. If I can get the guy in my mirror to behave, I can be skinny and rich, but he eats too many donuts and spends all his money. You follow me?

>> Yeah, that's correct. >> That's it, man. So, I mean, that that's everybody. And you're very wise and very self-aware to say, I've got to control the ownership of your words are fabulous. I've got to control my impulses and I have to make this money behave instead of I don't want to blow this opportunity. This is the first time I've started winning and I don't want to lose. I'm that is amazing self-awareness. You are in a really good spot, sir. So, um the way you do this is

with a plan.

>> Okay. And the plan is I'm going to write

down before the month begins. In this

case, I'm going to put it into an app called Every Dollar that I'm going to sign you up for and I'm going to pay for it. No cost to you. Okay? My gift. My gift. >> I want to be I want to be part of your story because your story is awesome. So, in the app, you're going to give every dollar a name

before the month begins.

You are going to tell your money what to do before you get your money. And then

you're gonna follow that plan like your

freaking life depends on it because it does.

>> This is how you don't screw up. And you put some money in there for fun. You got

no overhead. You're living with your sister. It's not costing you anything.

What's your overhead? You got a $1,000 bill for medical. That's it, right? You got to buy some gas for your car. You got a car?

>> I I do. I recently bought a car for 3,000. But I also as an agreement, what

happens is I pay $1,300 a month in rent.

And what my brother-in-law does, he puts it in a separate bank account that I don't have any control over. So when I move out, he gives me everything that I put into it back so I can go get my >> I love your brother-in-law and sister.

They're amazing.

>> They're they are giving you a shot, man.

Okay, so we got 4,000US, 1300. So I got

2,700 bucks I got to do something with, right?

which I got to put gas in the car, right? So, there's an item in the budget. I need to buy some food. There's an item in the budget. Um, I need to pay off the $1,000 in debt. There's an item in the budget. I need to have some fun.

Hello.

Is that okay? >> Correct. I um Yep. So,

>> where are you blowing your money now?

>> Budget. >> Uh, more than anything, I'm going to be completely honest. It's more than likely the fact of my enjoyments. So,

>> okay. What are you doing to enjoy it?

What What are you doing? What are you spending on? >> I bought a PC payment and I bought a straight PC was 1,200 bucks, but instead of just paying it 12 out of pocket, I'm building my credit and put it on a on like towards a credit card for a monthly payment >> and that Oh, you bought a PC personal

computer.

>> Yep. a gaming computer that I Okay. So, the enjoyment is gaming where my influence comes in. >> You're gaming. >> Correct. >> Okay. All right. So, uh when you were at

the poverty in the poverty situation homeless before, did you have any kind of an addiction problem?

>> I did not. >> Good. Good. Okay. So, beware of gaming

because it's an it's a bottomless pit of

time. >> Well, the good news is about that with my work with my career. I work seven days straight on rotating shifts. So every week I work a different shift and I work seven days straight and get two days off. I don't have too much time, okay, >> to really game and get no one no one

gets rich building their credit. So first thing we're going to do is just pay that loan off, too.

>> I don't care if you build your credit. I don't want your credit built. I want you to pay cash and stack cash.

>> I would appreciate that. >> So I want to see how big a pile of cash we can stack while we have some fun. And

some fun includes other human beings,

not just gaming.

>> Correct? >> Okay. So, like go out on a date or go out with the guys and have a beer or whatever that have a coffee. I don't care. Whatever it is. Okay. Plug in to a

good local church. There's some really good ones in the Minneapolis area. Okay?

and start to build your spiritual life,

your social life, and your financial life simultaneously and create a rhythm. Be careful who you choose to run around with because you're going to become them.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, do you want to be hang around disciplined people, people who are in

control of their faculties or people who are drinking all weekend? Or are we going to hang around with drug drugheads? Are we going to hang around with because you're going to become who you hang around with. So, choose that very carefully. And um I you have got

just such a framework to go win. Um so, we're going to put you into Financial Peace University. I'm going to send you a copy of the total money makeover book. I'm going to put you in uh uh every dollar premium so that you can you can do all these things, but if you'll lay out that budget and then stick to it,

>> 1300 to sister, brother-in-law, okay, gas is this much, food is this much, fun

is this much. I need to pay the PC off.

I need to pay the medical bill off. I need to stack some cash and stack some cash and stack some cash. I need some money to go out with my friends. And you

line item every one of the $4,000 where

it's going to go before you get it in your hand. And then when you get it in your hand, in a sense, emotionally, it's already spent because you already spent it in this app. You've just got to execute.

>> That would help out a lot. I appreciate it. >> Yeah. So you're happening to your money instead of your money happening to you.

Okay? The people that become wealthy are the people that are proactive. They make the money behave rather than wondering where it went. And I know people that make $100, $200,000 a year don't know where their money went.

They're just as broke as you.

The difference is they're not even as self-aware as you are. Michael, is your

sister or brother-in-law, are they disciplined and wise with money in your opinion?

>> Uh, yes. So, they currently were in a very similar situation and own a very nice house. >> Okay. Well, the reason I'm I'm I'm asking that is >> they broke the poverty cycle. >> Yeah. >> And so, don't everything that Dave's giving you from advice to every dollar is great, but don't do this alone. And so, absent of of a wife, a spouse on

this, uh, have your sister work with you on it. Your brother-in-law, he's been very helpful to you. In the first 90 days of working this budget, just get some accountability and somebody with a set of eyes on this and follow our baby steps, follow the plan, and you're going to be fine. Second thing I would challenge you on, I'm not anti-gaming at all.

However, if you look at the data and you look at successful people, I'm going to challenge you to read >> at least half amount of time that you would normally spend gaming, start reading books of people that inspire you, people you want to learn about. If you do that, I think you're going to see tremendous growth.

less games, split it in half, and see what happens. Oo, good one. Read biographies of successful people.

>> That's right. And I just bought a new one on Mark Twain yesterday. >> I'm reading it as well. Cherno. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm almost done with it. Fabulous.

>> The guy I was with at dinner last night said I had to have it. It's fabulous. I ordered it last night. Yeah. Wow. All right. There you go. See, read about famous people.

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Did you know that 2/3 of Americans die

without Without a will, you're inviting the court, the lawyers, and the public into your most personal part of your life, and they're going to be in control of what happens to your kids.

Billionaire industrialist Howard Hughes, known as one of the richest men in the world, died April 1976 without a will.

After Hugh's death, over 600 people came forward claiming to have an interest in his fortune. In the end, a judge decided the 2.5 billion would be split between

22 of Hughes's legal cousins. in 1983,

years later. Don't let the government decide what happens to your state. We want to challenge you to create your will in August. In less than 5 minutes, you can find out if an online will works for you at ramseyolutions.com/willquiz

or click the link in the show notes. And

if you want to find out an online will fits your situation, you can get 25% off when you use the promo code will month.

That's one word. Will month. This is the month to do it. And uh at checkout during the month of August. Very cool.

Randy is in Portland, Oregon. Hey Randy, how are you? >> I'm really good, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> You have no idea how much I wanted to hear that from you. Look, I've uh been a fan of yours for many years and uh I really appreciate what you guys do.

>> Thank you. >> Um yeah, thank you. Thank you. Um my

wife and I want to buy a toy and uh specifically a conversion van and uh we want to get your opinion about how to go about it. Um I can give you some details on my financial situation or you can just start asking questions, whatever you'd prefer. >> Um okay. So what how much is in your nest egg?

Uh we have a net worth of about 2.3 million. Um 1.6 of that's in retirement

401ks and Roths and the rest is in uh real estate which is uh our house and we own some land. >> Okay, good. Way to go, man. How much of this did you inherit?

>> Oh, none. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 56. Um and my wife uh stopped aging

at around 40. Um >> you are a smart man. Okay. And what's your household income?

>> So, we have a combined income of about 175 a year. >> Um, >> how much non-retirement money do you have? >> How much nonretirement money? Um, you mean my house in real estate?

>> No, I mean like cash sitting around or an investment that's not in a retirement account. >> Uh, cash sitting around. We only probably have Well, we have about 60K in savings, but that uh includes part of our emergency fund. So, >> Mhm. And how much do you have like a brokerage account or anything like that or just a side some mutual funds that are not in your retirement?

>> Uh I I do but it's not that much. It's probably 20,000.

>> Okay. And how much is the conversion van? >> Well, uh that's the kicker. It's going to be about 110 to 120k. Um but the

caveat to that is you don't have to spend all of that at once. You can buy the van, you know, like a stripped out van and then have it converted. But the two of those put together, you're looking at right around a 120k.

>> Um, yeah.

>> Okay. >> And what do we want it for or need it for? >> We really want to get on the road and uh

travel around in conversion van. We've been uh we've been looking at that lifestyle a lot. We really want to do it and I I Yeah, we want to do it sooner rather than later. >> What's your plan to do it now?

>> Well, uh that was a couple questions I had for you. I was thinking about, I think I know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Would it be unwise to stop retirement savings for about a year, a year and a half max in

order to build up cash for the purchase?

>> Would that do it? >> Um, >> you're not putting 10 in retirement in a year. >> No, it would not do that. But I think between that and uh, you know, some savings money we had, we could at least, you know, buy the van portion of it and then start saving up for the the conversion part of it as well. I'd love to do it all at once, but I really don't see it being financially.

>> How old is your wife? >> Financially, >> for real? >> Um, she she's 60, so she can

>> Okay. Does she have money in a 401k?

>> She does not, but she has it in a Roth.

We have a >> How much is in her? >> Roth. >> She's got about 80k in her Roth.

>> Okay. Cuz she can cash that out with no penalty and no taxes.

>> Yep. That's That was one of my questions as well. So, >> would that be smart? I don't know if that would be smart to do it. That's what I wanted to do. >> I'd rather not. I'd rather not because that's going to grow taxree for the rest of her life and you can't put it back.

>> If you had the van today, would you are you working remotely? Would you just start doing this now and continue to work? >> No. No. I I wouldn't. No.

>> So, what's the So, what's the timeline then if you have to work? >> You know, why would you buy it? Why don't you just buy it all at once and when you're ready to go? >> That's what I'm asking.

>> Well, we'd rather I we really want to start traveling now. Um, we really don't want to wait and you know it's it's it's it's a toy for us and I just you know >> Oh, definitely. Okay. So, number one, you can afford it. >> Okay. Yeah. >> You just don't have the cash.

>> Yeah. >> Correct. >> It's not it's not out of line for your net worth. It's not a shocking purchase.

It's not ridiculous anything like that.

We just you just don't have enough liquid nonretirement to get to it.

>> Okay. Correct. So, you're 56. Are you going to use this after 59 and a half?

>> Absolutely. Can you wait until then?

>> I I could. Yes, I could. We could. Yes.

>> Okay.

>> But you know. >> Okay. Here. Okay. I tell I tell you what I would do. Here's what I would do. Okay. You make 175,000 a year.

>> I'm going to just pay I'm going to spend some money on travel >> and enjoy the travel that I would have done with this van without the van by renting some ones or some RV rental program or whatever it is until I'm 59 and a half. and then I'm gonna take enough out of your retirement and pay cash for it.

>> Okay, that sounds that sounds good. I Yeah, I was I was trying to get options on what to do and I I I I really never thought of that portion of it, the waiting part.

But, uh >> here's an interesting thing, too. Sometimes when people are getting ready to buy a vacation house, a beach house, a lakehouse or whatever, I ask them to rent one for a week or a month

and see if you're really going to use it, >> right? >> And so if you go rent this RV, you may learn it will inform the design of the one you finally purchase. You'll find things about the RV that you hate or the entire experience that you hate and you thought you were going to love.

>> I see. Yeah. Okay. I never really looked at it that way. >> Yeah. And and um I I have known people to rent a beach house and say, "I never want to go back." And they didn't never buy, >> you know, and I've known people to do that with ski houses in the mountains and uh lake houses as well. So, um

because it's it's um you know that per

use, you can rent this cheaper throughout the rest of your life than own it.

>> Correct. That would be correct. Yes.

>> Yeah. And so I'm okay with you just renting it for a while and then deciding

the design based on your learnings.

>> That's where I was going with that line of question until you can go all in. In other words, he has to work and he can't work remote. So he can't go all in. In other words, enough to justify this purchase at this point. So I that's where I wish the itch right now. Scratch the itch. >> But I love the idea of renting and let's go ahead and travel while we can. But he's limited in how he can travel anyway with a full-time job. What's interesting is I mean you could I mean cheaper than

we're talking about you can charter a freaking jet >> cheaper than we're talking about. >> That's true. >> You know and so depending on where you're going but um >> you can do a lot of stuff here. So I'm not suggesting that but I am just saying it's interesting to me what you can get into and you know what you can purchase a jet for versus charter a jet.

You know that informs you >> that's right and over a three-year period he can save a lot more plus the Roth. You know what I mean? So, it gives him a runway. >> Leave her wroth alone.

Yeah, >> that's right. >> Yeah. Let's leave that thing alone. Let it grow.

And then we if we're going to do it out of retirement, let's take it out of his cuz he's probably got some traditional >> You know what?

Conversion van. Dave and Sharon driving over the continental US.

>> Why? You don't like me? >> No, I just think just seeing you two in a conversion van for some reason just made me laugh. >> I know.

Cuz it cuz it cuz you know I would be in hell. >> I know both of you too well. >> Sharon and I will be like, "No, >> no chance you make it through three states." >> No chance. No chance.

When I go through Arkansas When I go through Arkansas and it starts going bloom, I'll be done. >> Oh dear.

>> Your head is twisted. >> It is. >> It's going to get twisted right off your neck if you keep it up. >> I know. I hope I'm back. I hope I make it to the next segment.

Heat.

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Heat.

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Our scripture of the day is Exodus 15:13. If your unfailing in your

unfailing love, you will lead the people you have redeemed. In your strength, you will guide them to your holy dwelling.

Zig Ziggler said, "Lack of direction, not lack of time, is the problem. We all

have 24-hour days." George is in New Jersey. Hi, George. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my family owns a business. It's a hotel. Um, I've been working for them

for 5 years now out of college. I have a degree in entrepreneurship and recently I had a talk with my mom who's a business owner about a raise.

Um, I make a little over 60,000 right now. Um, in New Jersey houses cost a

lot, especially in the county we're in.

and she essentially told me she can't give me the raise to be where I can afford a house, which is understandable, but um

my next question to her was um what is a

time frame for me to inherit the business? Cuz it was always spoken of and I don't believe I'm at that point right now. Maybe in 5 to 6 years I can see myself doing that. I'm 28 years old.

Um, and essentially she said basically

not until she passes away. She's 66, so that could be 20 to 30 years, 25 years.

>> Um, so in other words, I don't know if I

want to stay and put my heart into it or if I should leave and find another job where I can make more than what I'm making.

>> I think you should leave.

>> Okay.

This is not good for you.

You have the ability to make a hundred a year. You're being underpaid. If you're underpaid by 40,000 a year for the next 20 years, the hotel's not free.

>> Definitely.

>> Um >> your mom's not got a situation that that is has enough to feed both families.

They're not making enough to feed both families. So, they're going to have to run it another way. She could pay somebody else 60 to do the job probably.

>> Yes. And also, this is uh she has two preschools, so th those were her main source of income, which it pays for like my family's finances and everything. And then uh it was my dad's business, the hotel, and then she took over. So, this was kind of like their extra money essentially.

>> Yeah. Well, but she doesn't want to she doesn't want to share it right now. And it's hers. That's her obl that's her option.

But she told you that she told you the game and you you know it's a fair response. She's the owner. She gets to decide that. But it's also doesn't work for you.

and I don't want you to be mad at her. I don't think she did anything wrong. But um you know she's not incentivizing you

to stay. Why were you puzzled when Dave

said what he said? Cuz I was under the impression the way you worded the question that that was the way you were leaning is that you should leave. Is that true or false?

>> Um, it's it's true in a sense. Um,

but from a kid, like essentially my mom gives me the responsibility of doing owner stuff. Like if a pipe breaks, I'm there, which I'm currently managing the business. So if it breaks at like 2 in the morning, I'm there. We had bricks fall from the side of the building, I'm there. I'm in charge of getting quotes, and >> she has me deal with the D when they come and stuff like that. And when I

>> No, you're just a manager. That's what a manager does. >> Yeah. What? So, your response is curious to me. So, you know that there's no

future and what Dave said is spot on and that's the way you were leaning. And when I challenge you on it, you just kind of went a little misdirection. So, what is the real emotion of cutting ties with this? Because there's something there you need to identify and and I think you know what it is. What is it?

Um, my grandfather came from Greece and built the business and I don't want to

like give up the family legacy. I kind of feel obligated to stay. >> All right, let me ask a question. If you were to move on and go do your own thing, are you not still or do you forfeit the inheritance?

>> Uh, no, I don't. She said I can always come back to it later on in life.

>> Then I'm with Dave 100%. You're there's no risk. come back when she dies and I own it >> and you and you keep your grandfather's legacy alive. I love your answer, but you there's nothing in this conversation or in the terms that make this a risk.

So, I'm with Dave 100%. Go do your thing, man. Go build something. Go learn how to do something and and and fly, man. Stretch and grow and then uh a mom

may change your mind. We don't we don't know. And B, if it is 30 years from now,

the legacy continues and you've gone out and prepared yourself to really grow

this thing or do something special with it. Yeah. Okay. You, one of the things I've told my kids and I in writing in the trust and in the will the estate documents is do not keep something around just because the old man started it.

I don't want my kids chained to a legacy

of stuff.

I want them chained to a legacy of principles.

And the principles are we run a business that serves people and serves the family simultaneously.

And um but please don't keep something around because the old man I I don't want my kids saying what you just said about your grandpa. I don't think your grandpa wanted you to say that. I don't think he wants you to work for less than you could earn in order to keep open something that he started 50 years ago.

That was not his reason for starting it.

His reason for starting it was to create prosperity for the family and but not to

chain his grandkids to something that

was where they were being underpaid.

That was not his intent.

I'd be shocked if he said that. Wouldn't you? >> Very. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I think you've already I

think your mom has said her piece and you say, "Mom, uh I'm going to go ahead and give you some notice so you can start looking for a new manager because I'm going to start looking for something to where I can afford a house." And um

and I'll you're my mom. I love you. I'll always be there. I'll try to help you any way I can, but I can't do this anymore. It's not working for me. And it doesn't work for you for to have a different arrangement. And I understand that. And so I'm accepting your decision and I'm going to based on that, you know, in about 30 days I'll be gone.

>> Okay? >> And then I want you to put your heart and soul into it while you're still there. Be the best version of George, the best version of you've ever been as a manager. And in the meantime, go get

something where you're making 100K, right?

>> Definitely. >> Yeah. And I think you can, don't you?

>> Definitely. I I mean, this gave me a lot of experience of managing a business and employees and inventory and finances and

everything. So, >> I'm not sure she can replace you for 60.

>> She She can't She doesn't even know how to check somebody in.

>> But, I mean, if she hired somebody to do all that, I'm not sure she could hire that position. >> Yeah. >> That's on call for pipes busting, bricks falling, and checking people in 247

for 60 grand in New Jersey. I'm not sure she can. She might, but I'm not sure she can. So maybe this is her wakeup call.

Is the business profit the hotel profitable?

>> Yes. >> So what's she putting in her pocket?

You're seeing the books, right?

>> Um she really doesn't put too much in

her pocket from it. >> So it's not that profitable.

>> Well, she's mostly taking the money and reinvesting it into the place and redoing hallways and >> Yeah. So it's not that profitable. >> Yeah. by the time she does renovations that are required to keep the thing running, it's not really making a profit.

So, it might not be a good business to own,

>> right? >> You know, I mean, if she has to pay somebody 100 grand instead of 60, she's going to be losing money.

>> So, I'm not sure she's got a great business there that I'm not sure you want this thing >> at the end of the day. So maybe you want something else. Maybe we sell it and we get something else or something. >> Yeah. The clear thing I'm walking away with, George, is you don't want to be there based on the circumstances. You don't need to be there based on this desire to maybe honor your grandfather's legacy. So move on and uh let's see how

the chips fall. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think it's going to be fine. And but again, let's give her plenty of notice. Pour yourself into it during the notice. Give her plenty of time to >> redo this. But she doesn't make enough on the hotel to pay you a hundred.

Probably not. >> That's what she's saying. I mean, and I think she I think that's probably right. He saw the book. See, they're putting everything back in the carpet and things run down. It's getting tired. It's got to have some rena. >> And that makes sense. That's logical.

Wow. Harsh.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Heat.

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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken

Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me and we're here for you. 88 8255225LE8825-55225

is the number to jump in and we would love to coach you up today. We start off with Dan in Grand Rapids. Dan, how can we help you today?

>> Uh my wife and I are preparing to retire. Matter of fact, her last day of work is tomorrow. Mine will be the beginning of February. So 40 years of effort towards this. >> Um >> Dan, how are you Dan? I got to ask you this. This is I mean we we men have to unite cuz we don't do this well. We got Rachel here to help us on this. Before we dive in, what is the plan when she finishes the day tomorrow and she wraps it up and comes home? Do you got something planned?

>> Um you know we don't. It actually came

on pretty quick. We both had this date in February picked and then her department dissolved and they said you can either take a buyout or >> you can transfer to another department.

So this all happened for her in the last three weeks. So, >> okay. But presumably she's excited about this.

>> Oh, absolutely. Yes. >> Dan, listen. I don't want to spend too much time on this. Rachel's here to back me up. This is where you got to step up.

I mean, this is you got to do something special. She comes home, maybe a little surprise. If she hates surprises, plan a little something. At least a nice a little retirement celebration.

40 years, babe. You're wrapping it up. We got to celebrate her is my point. I don't want to.

And I'm glad I said this, Dan, because you might have blown it had I not brought this up. >> [laughter] >> You're very I appreciate that. She works from home, but I will bring stuff home and make it monumental. >> She works from home.

Okay, Rachel, what does he do in that situ? I feel like this is your category. >> Champagne.

>> There it is. >> Right outside the door. >> Neither neither one of us drink, but I'll just boy. We are striking out, man.

We're striking out. >> The grape juice. Sparkling grape juice. Okay. >> No, just do something special. All right. So, we we we've now helped you there. That's the help you didn't know you needed. No, >> no. Yeah, that 40 plus year marriage we got by. Um, [laughter] so we we are we've worked very hard to get where we're at and we're very comfortable with what we're planning for retirement.

We're very comfortable with our financial advisor, but I have one concern that he's got me uh a plan that he's got for me and we are going to put an addition on our house um next spring.

So, we're planning to spend about 100 to 120,000 to do that. Now, my plan was just kind of take that off the top of our 401k and our savings and and make

that do the addition. What he's suggesting, and he gave me, I guess, good reasons, is he's suggesting that I take out um like a heliloc or a home equity loan to do this project. And he

said, "We'll chunk it away pretty quick." But he said there's reasons for that. First of all, I'll be paying a lower interest rate than he can make me.

That's arguable. Uh the second thing he said was it is definitely be a tax write off. And the third thing was the fact that it'll save me 20 plus,000 next year

in taxes because of the tax bracket that he's aligning us with. And it just it's very hard for me to think about going into debt immediately as I retire.

>> Well, yeah, 100%. Because is he what where is he planning on having you guys pay off the HELOC? when he said you can throw a bunch of like a bunch of money at it, is he thinking just a little bit every year so that you don't mess up the taxes and all of it?

>> Yeah, he's saying we'll chunk it away.

And I don't know how relevant chunk it away is if it's a year or five years, but he said we'll just make a monthly payment on it. >> And again, that it'll give us a tax advantage. It'll save us taxes and all this, which all kind of makes sense, but dang, you know, I just got myself 40 years of work to get out of debt and retire and then just thinking about going back into debt just kind of scares me.

has a price tag for you. Uh, you know, you can't put a price on it, but you know, it it's a value of yours that he's not putting into any consideration. And so, as he goes around, but so Michael Yeah. So, no, I would not do this.

I would 100% just cash flow it. And if the cash flow comes out of I don't know if it's the 401k if you guys have money elsewhere. Um but you have the ability to cash flow, right Dan? You guys >> Yeah.

Yeah. We got a set amount that we're going into retirement with that we're comfortable with and it's going to last us long beyond our retirement. Y >> and just thinking of taking that 100 or 120 right off the top of that and doing the addition was my plan until he >> Well, let's let's just put your plan. >> You offered a suggestion.

>> Yeah. I Yeah. I want to put your plan to the test, not his suggestion. We hate his suggestion.

>> Okay. >> So, let's put your plan to the test.

Let's assume that you didn't get this advice at all. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> And you just went ahead and pulled the trigger on your plan.

>> How do you feel emotionally about your plan? Any stress?

>> Uh I No, I don't think so. Um it's we

have kind of intentionally we have this 403b that we've been carrying for a long time and I've been very aggressive with it and I took it from 20,000 to it's about 170 right now. And my thought was that is just some play money we've been actually not planning on that we've accumulated that would do this project for us.

times a year. So we want to double our kitchen and our living room 450.

>> How much how much do you guys uh have in retirement total? Uh, just about two million. >> Okay. Golly.

See, and he's going through all these hoops and stuff about this and that and then that. You guys have $2 million. >> Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

And you want to take a hundred,000 of it. And if you go and burn that amount in the middle of the room, like you're not going to have any emotion towards it because it's such a small percentage of your net worth.

snaking and maneuvering through >> where it's going to be not even that much money at the end of the day. Do you know what I'm saying? Like I would >> I agree. I mean Dan, you you answered your own question. I asked it that way just simply for you to hear yourself say

>> his plan gives me a little bit of heartburn >> enough that the Pepsid AC is not working and you called us today.

>> Right. >> It did. Yeah. And I I I think I knew where you were going to take me, but I just kind of wanted to hear it.

>> Yeah. And I appreciate that and we're happy to be here for you. But you, sir, are the ultimate arbiter on this. your body, your heart, your head.

And man, you're just like, man, if I can put this addition on and I'm paying cash for it for my grandkids to be there. >> Yeah. And I would run the numbers, too, because I am curious because Helocks like the the rates go up and down. Like, it really is very dependent upon what's going on.

>> No, don't run the rates at all. I don't want you to be tempted.

Like that versus the taxes that you're going to pay on like like what I'm saying is I think it ends up being closer to a wash than what you realize.

I think that the guy I think I think he's like nitpicking every little thing to say I'm making this number up. I haven't done the calculations, but to save 10 great whatever the thing is and and that's pennies to you guys. So I'm like the peace of mind is worth that so much more. >> Yeah. Just listening to you describe everything he told you versus your plan.

Yours is simple. Boom. We're done.

>> We're done. >> And I guess things you said kind of makes sense. You know that's >> Yeah. Do you have money elsewhere, Dan, where to his point, do you have money sitting in a high yield savings or something where you wouldn't necessarily have to pay taxes if you use that cash?

>> We have about a $40,000 savings account

>> and then 40 401k. I have a lump sum

pension and uh a 403b.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha. Nope. That's great.

Yeah. No, I would not go borrow on my house and do an addition when I freaking have the money for it. Yeah, >> that's that's the bottom line. Trust your gut, Dan. There's a whole bunch of science on this that trusting the gut is not this mysterious thing. It's actually the brain sending physical signals to the body and it we feel it in our body.

That's a real thing. Has the same validity as the logic. Listen to your heart. Listen to your body. You were right. Thanks for calling. Tell the financial adviser thanks. No thanks.

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>> [music]

[music] >> All right, we're going to Baltimore where Julia is waiting. Julia, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I'm curious, how much should I have my children pay when they break things? Recently, my 10-year-old broke a $400 window and a glass table that is

thousands of dollars to replace.

>> Well, what happened? The 10-year-old is Is this a boy or a girl?

>> Boy. >> It's a boy. [laughter] >> I was like, I can answer that.

>> Take it easy on the boys.

>> What was he doing? Was he just being a boy? And >> yeah, >> like the window he was throwing the baseball.

>> Oh. And we had told him not to do this, >> but he thought it was only that we were telling him that the glass door, like the storm door, was going to break. He didn't realize the little door next to the door, could break, too.

>> Wait a second. >> He was upset about himself about that.

>> Did he throw the ball directly at it, or was he playing with a friend or a sibling and somebody missed it?

>> Uh, it could have been someone missed it cuz Yeah, they usually throw the ball toward the door and they keep the batter right in front of the door. I [laughter] and they know not to >> and that but they've been told not to >> many many many times.

>> Okay. All right. This is great. I'm gathering information here. I haven't [snorts] ruled yet. Uh uh what now the

second the glass table. What happened with that one?

>> Um okay. So the glass table, you know, you could stand up like on your own using your own body strength or you could push off of the table and push

push up. So that's what he did. I I

guess and somebody else was pushing up at the same time >> and it shattered >> and the whole the whole side of the

table like snapped. So we actually are just using a fragment of what used to be the table. >> Is that safe given that it's a glass table?

>> Yes. We turned the the jagged edge

towards the wall and we put tape on it and no one sits over there. Julia, I got to tell you, I am no m,

you know, confuse me with an OSHA inspector, but I'd probably get the glass table out of the living room. Okay. Uh, very easy ruling for me. Um, he felt bad on both instances, correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And how long has it been since the these two instances?

>> Uh, the window was over the summer and the wind and the glass table was within the last month or two. Well, I would have I feel I mean, okay, I'm not going to change my ruling, but I think you should have acted a little quicker, but yeah, I think you should sit him down and go, "Hey, uh, I told you a thousand

times not to play baseball in front of the door. You did it. And and by the way, this is why I told you. It's not mom trying to cramp your baseball style.

I'm sure that's your favorite spot. Totally get it. But I knew this was a possibility. It happened." So, um, I know you feel bad, but you know what? you didn't really learn the lesson and uh so that cost us x amount of dollars and then the glass table probably you

didn't warn him not >> go ahead >> you wouldn't have him pay for any of that window talk to him >> would I would 100% have him pay for it I but I would sit down I would have done it like within the first 48 hours uh we got >> I did I told him he needs to pay a hundred of the four >> well then you've already told him so Ken's advice doesn't count anymore you're not going to >> wonder if you need to follow moving forward because he's not going to stop breaking stuff. >> Well, I I'm curious now that I'm a Dave Ramsey subscriber, I'd like to know what [laughter] to do.

>> Well, what the deal is is that is that I think he learns his lesson. So, if you told I missed that somehow that you said you're going to pay $100. I love that.

>> 10 years old, y'all. >> You get a ruling. I'm having my ruling.

My ruling is writing. You told him a thousand times >> and he still did it. I'd make him pay for the full 400. Now on the glass table, >> I wouldn't make him pay the $1,000 because there was no, "Hey, don't the way you described what happened." And I don't even I don't even know if it makes any sense. I'd have a little bit more grace on that, but I'd still have him pay something, but not $1,000. But yeah, he's got to start to respect your stuff.

So sure, I love the idea of making him go do real work, by the way. Not like chores around the house that you pay for. No, he's got to go get a lawn mower out or whatever. I started cutting lawns at 11. Don't anybody freak. Don't at me.

But he needs to do real work for somebody and get some money back. I love this actually because you're not you're not mad at him or yelling at him and you're going, "Look, >> Sparky, there's consequences." And I I love that >> you wouldn't make him pay anything.

>> I think it was not intentional. There was no ill will because I think there's some kids who are >> there was disobedience.

>> Yeah. But it's not intentional. He was not saying I want to go break that. Like there are some kids that I think are destructive and they're doing things on purpose to rile up their parents and then you know what I mean that that there's an ill spirit to it and that correction I would much yes I would have them pay but he >> Julia I don't know why I just I'm like there's a part of me I'm like you're you're you have a boy like Charles already throw I mean and he's five but I'm like I already see things and we do tell him hey don't do don't but if he breaks the >> the thing the big light fixture we have because he's all into this like foam basketball thing and he's trying I don't know.

Part of me if it breaks I'm like which granted he's five. I don't think I would I don't know if I would make him pay for it. >> Again, I don't have any judgment but for those of us tell I'm tell you a real story. The Coleman you have two.

And you haven't gotten there yet as a parent with a boy. I see glimpses of it.

But I kind of like it too. I know this is terrible. >> You're confusing me. You said you were okay with her making him pay $100 on the door. >> No. No. I didn't. if he was being ill, if he was being um destructive on purpose, that there are some kids that are very destructive on purpose to rally up their parents. >> I just want to be clear, you don't think he was being disobedient?

>> I Yes or no? He was disobeying his mom.

>> Um disobedience and intentional

destruction are two different things to me. >> Over punishable >> because his disobedience was not it was

more around a sport that then affected the window. It wasn't the window itself.

I'd love if you were my mom. I got to tell you, >> no consequences here because my heart was good. >> No, he disobeyed his mom. Julia, did he disobey you in your mind?

>> Julia's still pissed. >> You didn't let her You didn't let her finish. >> Did I'm not pissed. I'm as happy as I can be. It's not my kid, not my problem.

I'm just weighing in on it. Julia, did he disobey you?

>> Yes. >> He knew he was disobeying you based on how many times you told him, "Don't stand here and play baseball." Yes or no? >> Yes. [clears throat] >> You're a good mom. You're a good mom.

Did he disobey you at all with the table? Was there any warnings around the table or was that just a pure accident?

>> Yes. I tell them not to push on the table. >> Oh, shoot. All the time. >> Dad gum it. Okay. >> Don't lean on it. Don't put your elbows on it. >> Then he's got to pay. >> I said it's glass. >> He's got to pay that, too. He's got to pay a big portion of that one.

>> He's got to learn his lesson. He might need to he might need to take a helock out to [laughter] pay for that.

>> Get some of the glass guys retirement.

Yeah. [laughter] >> I mean, I'll say this. The kid the kid is in debt to you because he broke your glass table. >> I know. >> And I got to say, I'm going to circle back to this one. I must be getting older. I don't like the shard of glass turned towards the wall with the tape on it. I'm going to bring that one back up.

I feel like I'll sleep better at night.

telling you I get the table out of there. But yeah, he needs >> I do have >> I do have bulk trash scheduled for pickup. So, we are getting it out >> right there. I just care about because this kid's going to run around the corner and >> god forbid he runs into the jagged edge.

>> I know. And I just like that he's like playing, you know? >> I do too. But he also needs a great iPad and he's >> he needs a lesson. Listen, cuz what happens when he breaks >> something that's way more expensive? How many kids do you have, Julia?

>> Three. I have a daughter and then two boys. >> And then the two boys. It's the double boy thing that really gets that, you know, the patience gets lower, maybe.

>> How old is Is it a 10-year-old your oldest? >> He's my youngest. >> Oh. >> And he is the most destructive. My 12-year-old just broke a glass part of picture flames because he threw a ball in the house, even though he knows not to. >> And I did. >> And my daughter who's 16.

>> Go ahead.

My daughter who's 16 is really not destructive at all. >> Well, no, cuz she's a female.

>> They color. That's what little girls do.

She's 16. >> All All little boys brains are on fire.

>> I know. >> Uh, you know, and and that's just part of being a boy. And and by the way, I did all of those things you described except for the glass table.

>> Uh, we were too we we couldn't afford a glass table. >> Didn't have a glass table. But I will say that I think you're a good mom and I think this is a great way to teach a lesson without you know that's enough punishment just to kind of go here's the concept. >> He needs to feel a little something.

>> Yeah, >> an effect of what his actions are. So I get that. I know. I'm just I don't know.

>> Thank you. Thanks for call. You are such

a softy. >> I think maybe honestly cuz I have two girls and you see that and yeah they're they're doing the girl thing and dancing and seeing the High School Musical and then you got little Charles with a little ball. Part of me is like you play with that. And Charles is a cutie. But let Charles let Charles shatter a really important window. >> I know. >> After you've told him not to. We'll see how lovingly you handle that.

[music]

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[music]

All right. Uh, next up we are going to go to a video call and uh, we've got

Valentina who is joining us from New York City. Valentina, good afternoon.

How are you? >> Good afternoon. doing? I'm doing well.

How are you? >> Well, we're doing well. What's going on with you today? How can we help?

>> A lot is going on. Um, so my husband and

I went from a family of two to seven and

under five years. >> How'd that happen? >> Um, well, [laughter] we have a 5-year-old, we have a three-year-old, we have a one-year-old, and a four months old. I'm actually um wrapping up with my maternity leave.

>> Oh my gosh. I must tell you, you look fabulous given how how little [laughter] sleep you must get. I mean, I'm exhausted listening to that.

>> Yes, exactly. Um, but it's unfortunate that we are we're drowning in debt. We we are drowning and >> um it all again escalated within the last 5 years. Um, and I my question is

how can we navigate this um terrible mess um that we're in with all the debt that we have accumulated and obviously we have a large family. So um we have four kids and then my mom lives with us um thankfully um but we we are at a

negative every month and uh we don't know how to how to go about this.

>> Okay, let's run through some numbers real quick. Okay, and then Rachel will dive in and we'll start >> pulling up a plan here for you. Okay.

So, let's start with your combined income.

>> Before taxes is um 240,000 and after

taxes 162.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> And give us the debt. Go smallest to largest and let's let's keep the mortgage out of it at first. Okay. Let's just see what that list looks like.

>> Okay. So, I will try my best. So, the smallest debt is uh so we have a credit card debt. We have um personal loan. So, credit card debt altogether is um

90. Actually, that's not the smallest, but um combined between my husband and I. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, um the personal loan is

28,000. >> Okay. >> Uh credit card debt is 98,000.

>> How many how many cards equal that 98?

>> So, my husband has five. Um and I do

have five as well. So, that's a total of 10 credit cards. 10 credit cards.

>> Are they all averageish? Around that that like nine. >> I'm being conservative. I think it's above that. >> I'm just rounding to the nearest. Yes.

But it's that's conservative.

>> Okay. >> Um so credit card I'm telling you, we've been relying on credit cards. Um >> and and my student loan is 132.

>> Okay. >> Okay.

>> Um and I think that's that's it.

>> Okay. >> Oh, no, no, no. I'm sorry. 401k. Um we borrow borrowed um um so it's a total of

43,000. >> So 43,000 in the 401k loan.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. >> How much um how much is going out to payments each month? Are you paying minimum payments on everything? >> We're paying minimum payments and everything and it's um I was about 3,000

or so. >> Okay. >> So all of that. >> Are any of the credit cards in default?

>> Uh not yet. >> Gone to collections at all? No. No, current keep them afloat. Everything is current. >> And do I understand that with all of this stuff plus whatever is going on in your life, you guys aren't uh there's no

money, you don't have enough money left over, and that's why you've been using credit cards. >> Exactly. Cuz my husband has been having to cash out all of whatever stocks he

had and all of that. So, anything extra we had, any savings, anything like that has been going into stuff that he had prior to us getting married. um all of that has been going on um towards that.

So what happened is that with maternity leave um my income significantly

decreases. Um I have two full-time jobs

>> and that goes down to basically 25% of

what I make. Um and then we had major repairs to do to the house and things have broken our cars cuz we drive old cars. So, um, a lot of things we started

off well, but then the debt just kept accumulating and trop property taxes went up, uh, twice the first year that we bought the house. Um, so things just kept coming up and it was just a snowball from there. >> How much is your mortgage?

>> So, we have to My husband had a property prior to getting married and, uh, we have our property together after getting married. So, um, our home, um, is about

4,500.

Um, and the other property is about 1,200.

>> Okay. What is the other property? Where is that?

[snorts] >> So, uh, it's close by to where we live, but that's where my husband used to live. It's a double unit, and he was actually It's >> What are y'all doing with it?

>> What are we doing with it? So, thank you for saying that because we are currently trying to sell it. >> Good. >> So that we can pay some of the debt. and I'm scared to death because I feel like that's not going to be enough. And we do have a little bit of income coming from there as well. Okay. >> So, right now that property um is being sold um right now there's 116,000 owed

and we're selling it for 380,000.

>> Wow. Yeah. >> That'll make a huge chunk. Nothing to be afraid of there. >> Yeah. >> It may not it's not going to get it all, but it's >> Right. Right. >> So, let me ask you this. How much are you over uh every month? In other words, bills versus what we got. How how much are we in the red on an average month?

>> On an average month, um, a couple of thousands, I would say. >> Are you on a budget?

>> We try to. We We're not in a consistent budget. >> Yeah. Because you guys are bringing in It's what around 12,000 a month, would you say, hit your account? >> Yes. Yeah. And then the two big things, the debt payments, which is 3,000, and then you have your mortgage, which is four. >> Mhm. >> And so my question is, yeah, where where's the rest of it going?

>> Oh, let me tell you. >> Yeah. >> Food, um, schooling, daycare, insuranceances, utilities, transportation.

Um, we do, um, have a couple of medical

bills, and then we, um, support, it's very minimal, but we do support our families, um, back home. Um, and that

helps them a little bit. But if we add all that up, honestly, we're we're always on the red and we're trying to minimize as much as we can. And >> how much are how much are you paying for the families?

>> Um, it's like a couple hundred. $300 to $400 a month. >> Three to 400. Okay. And how much is the kids school?

>> Um, it's about 1,300 a month.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah. Um,

>> is that daycare?

>> Daycare about 800 a month. Well, what's the 1300? Is that private school?

>> Yes. Um and we are grateful to get um

financial aid. Um but um that's sort of

the balance. >> How old how how old are the children that are in private school?

>> Um five and three.

>> May I may I push on something? And Rachel will kind of walk you through what to do here, but I'll just quickly say I think you have to have a conversation about the two kids five and three being in private school to the tune of 1300 a month. Uh, private school is still going. >> 1300 a year. >> Oh, a year.

>> A year. >> I didn't catch that. >> So, that's significantly less than >> Okay, never mind. I thought it was 1300 a month.

>> So, it's just like a few hundred. I mean, yeah, it's not a ton. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

1300 a month. That's correct. I'm so sorry. [laughter] It's 1300 a month.

So, you're right. >> I don't want I don't want to bog down on this. I want to give it to Rachel here, but I'm going to challenge you that private school will always be there. And they really don't need it that much as much as you need $1,300 a month back in this thing called a budget, which you aren't doing.

>> But we just found $1,300 that you desperately need. Rachel, I'll hand that one to you.

>> Yeah. And you know, there's going to be seasons and there has to be some changes, some significant changes, right? because if there's not, you guys will keep in the cycle of where you've been. And so, I think that is the hard reality is that you want to be able to do everything, but you mathematically can't, right?

You guys keep running into that. I mean, you can't keep doing everything. And so, you're either going to get behind on bills, you're going to get behind on a mortgage, you're going to get behind on things.

scared you're going to get behind on the wrong the wrong items. And so, I think you guys are going to have to have a really really hard conversation. And it's not forever. Not forever. But for the next two to three years, our lifestyle has to change. And you guys really are at the point where even $400 $500 makes a significant difference. And so to be able to say, okay, what are the

things that if we that are not necessity? Food, shelter, utilities, transportation, that's it. We have to be paying for daycare. There's no other option.

School, there's another option to your point. That doesn't have to be private school. Like what are the things that we don't have to have to literally survive? Yeah.

>> And I'm curious what that number is. And that's gonna hurt. That's gonna hurt when you see that number. And to think, oh my gosh, if we eliminate these things that we want to do that are good things, >> two things, >> but we can't afford it.

>> Just for the sake of time, two things I want to give her. I want to give her a session with one of our coaches and free every dollar for a year. Let's get those things in play and you can dig out of this.

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> All right, [music] let's go to Antoine in Austin, Texas. Antoine, how can we help today?

>> Um, so I just wanted to question like if it's worth getting a loan for school.

So, this is like the scenario that I'm going to go ahead and tell you right now. So, my parents want me to go to this local school that's a lot cheaper, the financial aid, they pay me around a,000 to go to the school because of the

financial aid. And then the school that I want to go to, it's a ministry school.

And um it's been what I want to do and I feel like that I'm called to do and it's ministry itself. And that school I do have to pay around 2,000 a semester.

>> Okay. Well, 2,000 a semester is not bad.

I mean, that's over like five months.

You could go and make that in a month doing a side hustle.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You could cash cash flow it.

>> And they were they were talking to me and they're just like really like bribing me with basically a good amount of stuff just to stay with that school cuz they think that that school is so good. And I just I don't really see the hype in it and it doesn't teach what I'm wanting to actually learn.

>> Sure. They think that it's because I guess in a sense they're different believers as I am and they don't think that getting a ministry degree is uh like a real thing like they don't think that it's like a legit thing to do as a

career, >> right? Okay. So, yeah, it is a legit thing for sure. Um I do think it is

going usually it is on the lower end of

a salary perspective. So, they may be looking and thinking, Antoine, go get a business degree and maybe go into ministry, you know, part-time and volunteer and go create a, you know, a life financially that's bigger. And then I hear you saying, "No, this is kind of this is what I want to do. I'd rather go down this route." Um, which again is not a bad route. I would not um I would I

would caution you to uh not just say, "Okay, well, if I'm going to do this ministry and it's $2,000 a semester, I'm going to have to borrow money and all the things." But if you cash flow it through and get the degree you want um the ministry degree.

I mean I guess is this specific school is it like a very specific type of

ministry or or um >> it's a the it's like theology um Christian ministries. Okay. It's a in a sense it's a lot better for me to uh do cuz it's one of the cheapest schools out there because it's online. So I'd be at the comfort of my own home. Gotcha.

>> Well, this local school that I'm currently going to I'm currently going to it right now and >> Okay. >> It's just I'm not learning what I would actually learn in ministry itself because there's not a ministry class that they have here. >> Sure. Are you So, you're wanting to be a pastor like you're wanting to >> get into a position. Yeah. That you have to have a Yeah. a, you know, >> I think this is so clearcut. This is very simple. Do you feel called to this or not? Yes or no?

>> Yes. And if you don't do this, do you think that you will sense

uh a holy, and I'm I'm using that word on purpose, a holy dise?

>> Uh in a sense, I don't believe so. Like I feel like it's like you're when you're called to something like that that you don't you don't burn out. >> That's what I'm getting at. I'm saying if you don't you misunderstood me. If you don't do this, if you don't answer the call, do you believe that you'll suffer distress?

>> Meaning, >> I've lost you all together. Let me let me put it another way. >> Do you feel called? You said yes. And I think that if you don't do this that your soul won't be whole. That's what I think. And I also >> Yeah, >> you're with me now. And I also think >> Yeah, I'm with you now. >> There you go. And I also think that you'll resent your parents >> if you don't do this. and if you bow to their wishes and their pressure. Yeah.

And I don't have a problem with it because it's a very >> um uh reasonable situation. Now, we do

get calls from people that want to go be missionaries and they want to go get a $60,000 a year degree from a private

Christian college. And you're like, that makes absolutely no sense. But $2,000 a

semester, you're like, yeah, you again, you could do that waiting tables in a month. >> Yeah. So you could you don't even have to go into debt for it. >> No, not at all. And you shouldn't or or ask them for help, especially given this situation.

>> Yeah. Well, they said they well they weren't going to help me at all if I go to this school. It kind of sucks cuz I mean >> but I mean at the same time like they in a sense they think the main reason as well is that they think that I'm not going to like stick through it. And I've like in a sense when it comes to church like I I'm trying to get like more involved and more involved.

And that's what I've been doing. like I've been going to school and just trying to be like as most involved as as I possibly can.

wrong with several things. They think like when I when I went to go get like baptized, they thought, okay, uh, no, like I don't think you should do it like right then and there. Like this is barely a new thing. And in a sense, they made me wait until I was 18, which wasn't that long. It took about like half a year.

>> Yeah, they just they're just Yeah, they're cautious. They're cautious. and maybe in their background spiritually they got burned a few places, you know what I mean? And so they're just like, "Whoa, just, you know, so that's that's fine. >> Honor your parents, but you don't have to do what they say." Now, there's a there's a there's a tension there for some people, but >> How old are you, Antoine?

>> I'm 18. >> 18. Okay. All right. So, >> and how long's the school? Sorry, Ken. Yeah. How long's the school? >> Uh, it's it's four years. It's four years. >> Okay. Yeah. So, I would I would make a plan to cash flow it. talk to some and

again this is not a school or a degree that's going to put you in a really narrow place >> no >> theologically right >> no you can use it get you a anywhere

>> okay perfect I think that's another thing I would have a red flag because there are some of these >> you know where it's a very specific niche within Christianity even and you can't really use it a lot of places so I think the broad sense is helpful um I

think it's great yeah >> yeah I I I want to I want to finish this point because I do hear hear your heart and your parents are very influential as they should be and you're 18 years of age and parents do things like this all

the time. I'm not immune to it. Rachel's not immune to it where a parent's fear

turns into what they think is practical advice and it's not practical advice.

It's them projecting their fear. I think that's what's going on. And so Antoine, you got to honor them that I think they want the best for you. And I just think they're human beings who have fear.

And I just wanted to make that point because I think it's important when you go through this and we're giving you advice to go, "Yeah, go do this. Go cash flow it. Don't worry about what mom and dad say on this because you believe you're called to this." And then this is just part of growing up. So it's tough.

>> So, tough stuff there. Uh, let's go to Trent in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Trent, how can we help?

>> Hello. My wife and I are both 35 years old, and the only outstanding debt we have is our mortgage, which is going to be paid off next year. >> Nice. After we pay off our mortgage, we are thinking to build up a 529 with a couple hundred thousand in it for our daughter uh and or a career emergency.

So, the idea is that my wife and I's career field feels a bit unstable right now. So, if we ever get laid off, we want to be able to use that 529 to send me or my wife back to school to build new skills. And uh if we never use it, then we want it to go to our daughter when she starts college. Is this a viable plan?

And if so, what risk do you see? Uh, I would say it's a viable plan for your for your daughter. We we espouse that.

>> Uh, so my wife is in tech. She's like a data analyst and I would be an untenured professor.

>> Um, yeah, yours is a little bit more sketchy than hers. I think, you know, she can upskill in the tech space without going back to school. So, I'm just going to push back against the thought that this 529 is either for our daughter or for my wife or for me if we need to get more skills down the line.

And I think in your particular careers to pivot, I don't think another degree is the answer. I really don't. Could be, but I'll give you a quick uh litmus test on that. Is a degree the only way to do what you want to do or is it the best way to do what you want to do?

If that's the case, then you could use it. But don't just make that assumption, especially for her in the technology space where upskilling now is not going to require any kind of degree. There's going to be boot camps. There's going to be classes, courses.

you're going to see more and more big companies over the next few years. Yeah.

>> Start to train the people that they want. You as a professor, >> who knows? Yeah. Now, I would say I would say for 529s, it's an investment.

So, you're wanting to to sit there for at least 5 years, and you guys are probably going to want to go back sooner than that. So, I would just cash flow your wives. >> Yeah. >> Set your daughter up for the 529. And then if you guys needed it for you guys, I would just cash flow it.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show coming to you from the [music] Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited to be with you today and we want to coach you up. 8 8255225.

Anuanette is joining us now in Fort Worth, Texas. Anette, how can we help?

>> Well, um I'm going to be 62 next month

and uh I don't have anything saved for retirement and uh I want to become a firsttime homeowner and I don't know if that's stupid and ridiculous or if it's

possible.

>> Well, I don't think it's stupid or ridiculous. Let's focus on the possible part. Give us a picture of your financial situation given that you have zero retirement or very little retirement. >> I have no retirement and I have no money for a down payment. So I would have to go USDA or set by something with a zero

down and so that would make my payments even higher. >> No, you don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. Do you have any debt?

>> Yes, I have some but not an unmanageable and I'm getting it paid off really quick. >> Okay. How much debt do you have?

Uh, I think Credit Karma said I had about uh $8,000 or something like that.

I just paid off uh $600 worth of two of

my accounts in the last month. So, >> is the 8,000 credit cards or personal loans? What is it?

>> Uh, let's see. I paid off the personal loan and so uh and one of them is my car

and uh the rest of them are credit cards. I've got I think four credit cards. >> How much is in your car do you owe on your car?

Oh gosh, I can't remember. Um, I'm really bad with money. I mean, numbers and so I just know that I just got it two months ago and I had to trade in my other car because it was a 2019. It was convertible and the it didn't convert anymore and uh mechanically it was down, but everything else on it was falling apart.

So, I had to get rid of it and I was upside down on it because last year it was worth uh $17,000 and then this year it was worth $5,000. And so I was real upside down on it. And so uh I owe more on the my I had to get a minivan because I'm so popular. I can't have a little convertible.

So I owe more on my minivan than really I should.

>> Okay. And you probably And did you roll over the negative equity on the um on

the convertible?

>> Yes. >> Into the minivan. >> Okay. So how much do you owe on the minivan?

>> I don't know.

You don't know, Antina. You signed a loan. You don't You don't know how much the total is.

>> That's right. >> All right. All right. >> All right. And she had to go to Credit Karma on the other thing. So, one of our problems, Antuina, is you don't have a firm grasp of your numbers.

>> Yeah. She already said she's bad with them, but it's not >> I can't remember numbers.

>> Oh, but it's not about that. It's about Do you have a file over in your house somewhere where we got the car information?

Yes, but I'm a truck driver, so my house is uh like 2,000 miles away.

>> Why do you need a minivan if you're driving a truck all the time?

>> I go home sometimes >> and you're popular. So, you and the ladies are hopping in the minivan. Okay.

All right. I'm trying to catch up here.

>> Okay. >> Cuz I I'm trying to figure out honestly if we can sell the minivan. >> What year is the minivan? What year?

>> Well, I had to go for a uh let's see here. a uh 2023

I think.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. We >> and with the negative I mean this could be 30 $40,000. I mean so okay so

Antuinette >> I want to paint you a picture. Yesterday on the show we had a truck driver Christopher. He paid off all of his debt

and he has hundred I mean tens of

thousands of dollars. I mean he's just absolutely killing it and he's a truck driver. He was telling us he had a Subaru brand new, ended up selling it.

Had some, you know, had to take out a small loan because it had gone down and he was upside down a little bit. Uh bought an $8,000 Lexus. The Lexus gets

hit. He gets a check from the insurance company for $9,000. He ends up buying a $2,000 car, takes the rest of that >> and throws it at the debt. Right? So, there's a way to do this. And even someone in your industry, we literally just talked to him. He did his debtree scream yesterday. Here's the thing, internet. Okay, so the excuse that I am

bad with numbers can't be an excuse anymore. Okay, you are an adult. You are smart. You are capable. And we have to get this under control. So, the first thing I need you to do when we hang up is I need you to call the dealership uh

or the credit wherever you got the loan for the van. Uh, I want you to pull up the Credit Karma again and know exactly exactly which credit cards are out there and know exactly what you owe on them and companies. I want you to write a list down and then take your phone and take a picture of it so you have it documented. Even if you're out and about, you have it documented.

And then the plan is going to be home ownership is going to be down the line, okay, for you. Um, but I but I think the goal here is to get yourself out of debt. And Antuinette, I would you're more than likely going to have to sell the minivan, okay?

be out of this debt so that you can start saving for retirement. I don't want you driving, you know, have to be a truck driver for the rest of your life. I want you to be able to have a great retirement. And that's not going to be possible with the habits that you've been in.

Not only just financially actually, but the way you're going about it and your attitude about it.

>> Are you an independent contractor? In other words, work for yourself or do you or do you work for a company?

>> I'm a company driver. I'm not kidding about having a bad memory. And I update

all of my bills every other month. I have a piece of paper that tells me I keep it on a book. I look at every one of them. I see how much interest that they're charging me. I see how much my balance is. And then I uh t I tally up

my total debt. I also look at Credit Karma a few times a week. I just have a bad memory. And if had I known that you're going to be asking me these questions, I would have had this stuff.

>> And you called a money show, my friend.

You know what I mean? And so we we're trying to help. We really are. And so my

>> my encouragement to you is that when

there when there is something a big big missing piece and the car loan is that for me right now that I need to I need you to know what it is because I may need you to make a really quick decision to sell it because do you know how much the payment is each month?

>> Yes, the payment is uh $995.

>> Okay. Almost $1,000. How much money do you get paid once a month?

per month, what are you making?

>> Probably about 7500.

>> Okay. >> And let me do a quick followup, Antinet, because I didn't hear you. That's my fault. Did you say you're independent?

And the reason I'm asking this, did you say you're independent? >> Actually works for a company. >> Okay. Do they have a 401k or some type of retirement program that you can be contributing to?

>> Yes. But I don't because what what's the point of that at my age?

>> Because you have nothing. So, we can run

these numbers, but I mean for the baby steps, as we teach them, is $1,000 in savings just for basic emergencies. Baby step two is to pay off your debt, smallest to largest. That's why Rachel leaned in there. We want to get the debt out of your life because we just learned that that could save us 900 bucks a month.

That could be going that be going towards >> retirement and and so, >> but why would I want a $2,000 beater card just going to break down all the time? >> Well, a $2,000 beer card doesn't always break down all the time. You can ask Christopher yesterday. He literally had a picture of his and it runs great.

It's >> and I'm talking to a person who's super popular. Your own words. Have the ladies pick you up when you're not in the truck. >> Car.

>> I hear your heart in it. And I want a Lamborghini when I'm going there.

>> I don't need to argue. >> I want to dunk a basketball. Uh but some

things are not going to happen cuz I'm 5'8 and can't jump. You know, if I want

to retire with dignity, I've got to start saving money. and I can't save money if I'm in debt. >> Hey, Antoine, I want you to keep listening to the Ramsay Show for real. I want you to listen every single day for the next 6 months. Make that be your goal. Just as you're driving, listen to this show because I want this knowledge to soak in and this way of thinking and the way of life when it comes to money.

[music]

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>> [music] >> I got to say I uh even though she got a little upset at us, I love Antonet. I love her spirit. And [music] I think you know what I what I want to touch on real quick, Rachel, is >> uh I got her frustration. I felt it. And

that's what it's like when you wake up like she did one day. 61, no retirement,

>> uh, no house, and it feels as though she's at the base of a mountain that's impossible to climb. However, we know, and as you pointed out in talking to a truck driver just recently on this show, Yeah. it is possible, but the frustration is real, and I I guess the thing is is that it's like, hey, um, this is going to be hard. There's going to be some tradeoffs.

>> Yes. >> And they're going to be painful. >> Yeah. It's it's about choices.

We have to make choices. And you know, you talk, we talked to people that are on baby steps four, five, and six. They've gotten out of debt in their emergency fund, and they had to make a choice to work extra.

money to pay off debt. They had to make choices, really hard choices, but the outcome of what they were doing was worth it. And so, I think that is it.

there has to be this level of reality of to say the outcome that I want and and

in her case whether it's a home whether it's retirement these sacrifices that I have to make in order to get what I want are worth it and you know can I think there are some people in life they're not worth it for them you know and and you know they live their life the way they want to live their life but um but it is about choices we have to make choices everyone does um you know we don't have an infinite amount of get to do whatever we want all the time >> and and that is that's difficult So true.

Hey folks, in a few weeks we're going to be doing our annual special giving edition of the Ramsay Show.

It's really fun. We ask you all and we're asking you now to share stories with us about how you have given generously or maybe you've been the benefactor of somebody really giving generously. H and whether that's maybe a

surprise tip or maybe you bought Thanksgiving dinner for somebody. Uh this is just about celebrating generosity and we get so many great stories every year. Uh whether again you've been on the receiving end of an unbelievable gift or you've been blessed by giving others, that's what we're looking for and we'd like to hear those stories so we could feature them on the show. Go to ramseyolutions.comask

ramseyolutions.comask

and put giving in the subject line and

share your story. We do this every year at Christmas time and it's really really special. Uh and uh that's coming up on December 18th. So those of you who are regular listeners or love the special type shows, mark your calendar uh because we're going to celebrate living like no one else.

He can give like no one else. Speaking of giving, Rachel, this is where Santa Dave I think he's out of control and I may have to have a meeting with him. Um [laughter] the Black Friday deals which we're already offering. Do you realize this now?

>> How great they are.

>> And we're on the train, people. >> And they're on. We're on the train. And I'm not happy about it. All right. But but it is what it is. You should be happy. You know why? $12 for bestselling

hard covers.

>> $12 question for humans. $6.99 for audio

books and ebooks. $15 for our assessments and more.

>> I mean I I mean Dave, you're giving the farm away. >> Just deals on deals on deals. >> I'm not going to win that battle, folks. But you win. Ramseysolutions.com/store.

Ramseysolutions.com/store.

That's where you get all the great deals. All right, let's go to Greenville, South Carolina. Nicole is waiting. Nicole, how can we help?

>> Yes. Um, I am very nervous about a

change that's coming to us and how to

raise my children through this. Um my

husband is just selling a partial of his

business um a little less than 50%. And

he's getting a large sum of money just

before the end of the year, which leads

to another question of how do we sc do we have to scramble to figure out exactly where to place this before the

end of the year comes?

>> Okay. What what is a substantial amount of money? What does that mean?

>> Um, 6 million.

>> Okay. >> Hello. >> It's great. >> Nicole, you said you sound like someone gave you a bill for 6 million.

[laughter] Where's >> Well, I know cuz I'm I'm kind of I don't want to act like I got the lottery for 6 million. >> No, no, but my goodness. I hope I hope

that maybe you get yourself a light blue box, you know, with some jewelry.

>> Come on, Nicole. Let's go.

>> Get a little Get a little >> little something [laughter] from Nicole. Nicole, >> I wanted to get that out of the way. All right, that's the best advice you're going to hear on this call. Nicole, wait. But I I'm seriously Hey, congratulations. You and your husband.

This is a pretty cool deal and I just don't want to fly by that.

>> Yes. >> Now, you got the perfect person today to No, I'm serious. She's very, very gracious and very humble, but I think you are really perfect to talk about.

She doesn't want this to change their life, the kids' life, and all this. I think you have tremendous insight on on a couple things. So, we'll get to that, but first talk about the end of the year scramble. I don't think that's >> because you guys you guys will have to pay taxes on it >> and so >> Yes.

And I understand, you know, that's going to happen and I know we want to give part of that as well. >> Sure.

plans to go back within the next couple of weeks, you know, once he gets, I guess, more of the contract in hand.

It's like, you know, obviously he's like, well, I'm not going to get, you know, that that investor pro or he's like, well, you know,

>> I guess they're like, you know, here's your free service, but I'm very I'm not going to tell you everything you need to know, right? >> Who's saying that?

>> Um, well, someone that my husband had found to get advice from a business tax

pro on advice like this, I guess.

>> Okay. Okay. I'm so confused. It wasn't necessarily one of like Dave or Dave Ramsey. No, it doesn't sound like it. I've spoken Yeah.

>> Well, and I'm I mean they I have spoken to one of those before in the past. Yes.

Okay. But then this all went down and I'm like, well, I can't really make these changes right now and getting my husband involved because he's having to deal with this mess and >> I mean, not mess, but like he's have, you know, he's got a lot of this on his shoulders and >> Okay. So, what I would do, I wouldn't do anything. I wouldn't do anything.

I think there's a lot of height and emotion. There's a lot of fog. It's a lot of decision- making. Don't do anything.

Okay? Just know in the back of your mind you're going to have to pay taxes on this. So, just that's the only I want you to think about. So, Nicole, that's the only thing I want you to think about.

Okay?

Okay? So, nothing big has to change. I

would >> interview and find a great tax pro in

your corner to make sure that everything is buttoned up. Y >> um I would do that and we have some wonderful people, you know, that um are affiliated with RAM. If you go to Ramseyolutions.com, you can, you know, interview one of them or find your own.

I don't care. But nothing sketchy, nothing weird. Don't tell, I mean, whatever that language was. I was weird. >> So that's different than a investment.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Let's talk through that. What does that look like? How do we want to do that?

What are some things? Because you probably don't want to give, you know, 10% onto one thing. It' probably be good to get a couple of things and just to say, well, you know, as a family, how can we give out of this? Um, I want you to look at, do you guys have a mortgage or any debt?

Um we we have like 175 on our house.

Okay. And then really all the um all the

other debt is like vehicles with the business. We we purchased the business property, you know, about seven years ago. I mean, but >> I would I would be sure. So I would write a check, pay everything off.

And then I do want you to remember that money magnifies who you are. And so the way you guys have dealt with money before this six million, it's going to be amplified. And do you like how you guys have handled money? You've dabbled in the debt stuff, all of it.

And my fear is that the six million kind of creates this, oh gosh, well, we could get into this real estate thing. We could we could do this and it's going to >> be taken up really quick if you guys aren't careful.

>> We're going to get completely out of debt.

have fun with it [music] you Guys, jewelry earark some jewelry. Upgrade the car. Do some stuff that yeah, you guys enjoy. But remember, you give it, you save it, you spend it regardless of the amount. That's the three things you want to do.

[music]

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[music]

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>> Today's question comes from Kelsey in Texas. We are debtree except for our mortgage and my husband's income is not enough to help get our home paid off. He is a musician and he dabbles in real estate. The m musician world that he loves does not bring in any substantial

income and I earn $35,000 a year. This

year he estimates that he will earn a total of $32,000 a year. How should I communicate with him about the lack of income? I understand this is his passion, his life, and a part of who he is, but we are really struggling.

>> Okay, Kelsey, uh this is hard. So, I

want to acknowledge that you're his wife, and you're going to come to him,

and you're rightfully going to say, "Hey, um 85K,

uh which I bring home, plus you're 32, which you're estimating is just not enough for where we could be, where we should be, where we need to be." And let's lay that out. Let's make a numbers case. Say, "Hey, we need more money and

uh here's how I've come up with this number. I'm not pulling it from the sky, and I'm making this up to answer the question, but if you determined, >> yeah, >> that we needed an additional 75,000 to knock out debt, catch up on investments, all these things, >> then we present that number." And this is all of this is non-emotional. This is just, hey, I'm digging in the numbers. I know you love music, and I don't want you to give it up. This is how we lead.

Rachel do not want you to give up music.

However, >> dabbling in real estate.

>> Can we go from dabbling to allin and

keep the music going at night? Keep the music. Find a gig here and there. Don't give up on the music. But the music is

not the focus. It is an outlet. It's creative. Keeps his soul >> alive. It's a good thing.

>> Yeah. >> Uh but for this season, we got to go all in on something. And since we're dabbling in real estate, if one goes from dabbling to really focusing, you

can win. And I would have them go talk to my friends uh at the Befinian Company. Brian Befini is the number one uh real estate trainer in the world, and I do everything Brian tells you to do, and you'll crush it. So, this is a tough conversation, but we have to lead with real numbers, vision. Mhm.

>> You don't have to give up your dream and your creative outlet, but I need your help and we have got to lock arms >> and go at this. Now, that's the male perspective. >> Yeah. >> What would you change?

>> What would you add to the messaging there? >> So, I think if I'm in the situation as

the wife, I'm [snorts] looking to say, "Okay, we have these goals out there that ultimately lead to a life that I'm longing for. I want the house paid off.

I don't want to have to worry about that. I want to know that we're going to be taken care of in retirement. You know, there are these um benchmarks that

I would feel safe and good to know that we are at least on track of hitting. And the fact that we're nowhere near it makes me fearful and I don't like that.

And so that's me. But us as a team, I

want us heading towards the benchmarks together. >> And if I feel like I have to be dragging you the whole way, that's not a fun marriage. You know what I mean? Like that's not fun. And so there's something along the lines of starting with what is

going on inside of you know inside of you Kelsey. Um and then also the fact

the team aspect of marriage more and more Ken I don't know if it's cuz we've just hosted this show and we get so many relation relationship calls but there is a game changer in the health of your marriage and the peace of your marriage when you are a team on these kind of things and money is one of the big one of the big components right they say in-laws raising kids sex religion money

like it is and when you are aligned on these things again you're going to be different in them I'm a spender you're a saver you may be more chill not as go We're all going to still be ourselves in it, but we at least are heading in the same direction. When you're fighting against those directions constantly, that's exhausting, you know, and so I think the team aspect more and more for me for marriages, I think, is as big.

So, let alone just the um just the career path. It's more I want us to be on the same page of where we're going financially and how do we get there? And that may mean sacrifices on one one side or the other, but at least we're heading in that direction. >> That's right. And you don't have to give up the fun creative dream or outlet. You just keep it where it's supposed to be for this time. >> Yes. Yes. >> Which this is just a side thing that we mess around only when we have time.

That's the key on those deals. We're not giving it up. All right. Let's go to Armando in Los Angeles. Armando, how can we help today? >> Hi, thank you for having me on the call.

Uh, I just wanted to say I love your guys' show. Um, so I want to preface this with saying this is a conversation me and my mom have been having for a bit now and we're kind of trying to decide and we figured, you know, you guys are probably the best people to ask. So, I'm trying to decide basically between whether staying at my full-time job uh where I'm a manager at a gym. I make about $4,000 a month after tax with

bonuses um or going to my passion which

is starting my window cleaning business.

um that's currently producing about $3,000 a month and I only do that on the weekends. >> And so >> I'm at a point where I personally feel like I could start generating more during the if I had more than a weekend to, you know, during the week to produce more. >> Well, let me jump in. Let's jump in right there.

Uh are you already getting calls and leads? In other words, people going, "Hey, Armando, I'd love for you to come clean my windows." and you're having to push them out uh a few weekends just because of time.

>> Yeah, I've had that a few times already.

Um we're actually and that's without even we're just getting the website and everything set up this month. I've only had the business for about 10 months.

>> Where are you getting your leads?

>> A lot of them are referrals and door >> too. Bro, first of all, let me just say

you will not lose. I love that your answer is referrals. That means you're doing a good job for people and doortodoor that means you hustle and you're not afraid to know. Armando, that right there is the success formula for

entrepreneurs. So I love that. Do you have any personal debt?

>> I have no debt. I am debtree.

>> All right. And then we call savings in a

business retained earnings in your business account. And I'm assuming you have one. Yes or no? >> I do not.

So, you're just taking the money you're making from the window cleaning and running it through your personal finances. >> I just put it in a savings account.

>> Oh, okay. Yeah. And just in a big account currently saved up. Um because I paid off a bunch of debt recently. So, I now have 8,500 saved up.

>> Okay. So, you have 8,500 now. Is that in the savings account that's just the window cleaning business or is that a combination savings?

>> Combination savings. spending money to to kind of go and play around with. Uh I always keep in my checkings about a thousand. >> That's great. But here's the deal. So, you know, we teach you know, we teach a a three to six month emergency fund after we pay off debt. Do you have a what's your So, your three to six months

expenses is what?

>> What's three months? >> Only Yeah, I only three months really is

only about I believe it's 4,000. My

expenses right now are only 1,200 a month. Uh, I am very blessed, very blessed to not have to pay rent.

>> So, I want to move quickly. Uh, but I want to get Rachel in real quick. What would you think is a good amount on the emergency fund? Just personally.

>> Yeah. I mean, where you're at right now?

I mean, maybe >> 5,000. >> Five. Yeah, I was going to say not that much. It may change if your living situation changes, but for now, that >> So, Armando, I'm going to recommend that you get a separate savings account for the window cleaning business.

And for this example, I'm going to call it window cleaning. Armando's window cleaning. Okay.

pretty conservative. I'd like to see 6 to 12 months of your salary saved in

window cleaning bank account. All right.

So that's just me. And the reason is is because when you leave that full-time job, I don't want you thinking about the next six to 12 months of of a payday.

>> You got low low cost of living now anyway. But that's my advice.

>> And when you get that number saved up, whatever that number is, and let's just say it's uh 25,000

>> and you've got a pipeline stacked up,

then I would say see you later to my full-time job. I'd like to see you have 6 to 12 months expenses in the window cleaning company saved and

then make the move. Rachel, I >> congrats though, Ar. That's awesome.

>> Thoughts on that real quick? Final word.

I think that's safe. >> I think it's awesome and I think you'll get there faster than what you expect and you're going to kill it in the window cleaning [music] world. >> Great job. >> Thanks for the call.

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[music]

Rachel, the allnew Every Dollar is here.

And folks, it is truly way more than just our world-class budgeting app. I've been talking about this on the show. I I I got a meeting with the team and I said, "Show me all the just take me in the thing. Give me give me a tour." And it's amazing.

It's literally like >> a digital version of us on the show for those who call in. The first 15 minutes of answering the questions that the team provides you in this app, they're going to help you find thousands of dollars immediately in savings.

it. You can start every dollar for free by going to the App Store, Google Play.

Uh tons of advanced features, not just budgeting. Now, that's amazing. But the fact that you've got a digital coach, mentor, accountability partner, whatever you want to call it. All those facets are in there. Fantastic. So, you got to go check it out and give it a whirl.

It's free and I'm going to tell you, you're going to love it. Donna is up next in West Virginia. Donna, how can we help? >> Hi. Uh, Ken and Rachel. Um, I I love all

the personalities, but Ken, I'm really glad you're there today. I love the way you spin a tail. You really make me chuckle and I love your your story from

a few weeks ago about the welfare chicken. I grew up on a farm and can relate to [laughter] that. >> Thank you. Yes. Thank you. The welfare

chicken didn't get in trouble for telling them to sell the chicken. >> I think I was on there with you during this. >> I did not get in trouble and I had forgotten about that, Donna. So, thank you. That's really fun. Thank you.

You're a sweet lady. By the way, I have to ask, where in West Virginia are you?

>> Oh, geez. Uh, Romney.

>> Do you know that town? >> I I think I've heard of it. Do you know Point Pleasant by any chance?

>> Oh, that's way far away. We're We're in the panhandle between Winchester, Virginia, and Cumberland, Maryland.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. I was born in that little teeny town of Point Pleasant, West Virginia. >> Point Pleasant, I know where it is. I've been there. >> Well, I got to tell you, not many people across the state. >> Yeah, that's right. across the state. But >> all right, Donna. Uh my sister from another mister here in West Virginia.

How can we help today?

>> Well, I'm I'm 69 and my husband is almost 71 and um we started our careers

in the 70s and at that time people were saying, "Oh, you're so lucky. You have a pension. You'll have social security.

You don't have to worry about retirement." So, we didn't. uh and we're

doing fine now with our pension and our our uh social security, but we haven't saved a lot of money. And we had to put my mother in a nursing home um last

year, an extended care nursing home, and it really scared me and shocked me at the cost per month for that stay. And

what my question is today, and I've I've been having friends tell me, you know, you need to sign your house over to your kids uh uh to save it from being taken

and and all of this. And I know Dave

says that you shouldn't do that. I have heard him I haven't heard him talk a lot about that, but I have heard him say that. And I was just wondering what the pros and cons are to that. And if there

if there's no pros, what can we do? Or

is there something we can do to save our house? >> Well, let's let's go back a step. What are we what are we a fear? What are we afraid that's going to happen that would even uh allow us to consider that advice? What are you afraid's going to happen? >> Oh, it for the uh signing your house over. >> Yeah. >> Oh, well, there's I guess a lot of things. I mean, I've been listening to the Sto Stewart shoot uh show long

enough that uh I know if you have kids,

if anything happens to your kids, then then that can if they're in an accident or uh anything like that, uh >> Yeah. But you're talking about But you're talking about your house.

>> I'm talking about my house. Yes.

>> My house that my husband and I own.

>> Sure. And you're worried you're going to lose it to who or why?

>> Oh, medic Medicare. I mean, if you can't pay, if you go into a nursing home, Medicaid is gonna look at possessions.

>> They're going to be looking at your Now, we're caught up. Sorry, we we weren't 100% sure. >> And the reason we do we say that is because a little bit it feels like you're hiding assets when you just sign it over. >> I wonder. I mean, I don't >> I know. So, yeah, not a great not a great thing because you're basically lying to the government that you don't have an asset when you really do. So, um

Okay. Do you have long-term care insurance, Donna? We do, but I got it uh

it's been probably before I realized the cost. My father-in-law went into just an assistant living and his was about 3500

$4,000 a month. So, when we got our long-term care, it was very expensive anyway because I have some health issues, so it was high. And ours is only 3,000 a month. Okay.

>> And then my mom's came up and it was 14,500 a month. And I'm like I just I

was just in shock that it was that expensive. Well, um, okay. So, a couple of things to think about that we don't know yet, cuz how old are you guys?

>> Uh, I'm 69, my husband's 71.

>> So, a lot of different things. Um, number one, you don't know if you guys are going to need a nursing home.

Anyways, uh, number two, if you did get to a point of a nursing home, um, you know, there are things you can do. You can sell the house and use that to fund if you need to. Um you there's also what

what are you guys doing with your pension and all of that? What what do you have coming in >> uh per month? You mean what we have? We have uh it's like $9,942.

>> Okay. >> So I mean it's it's decent. And we did just start two years ago. We have started putting some away. Uh we bought

I bought us and uh my husband a sp I'm

still working a little bit. Okay. And I made enough money to be able to max out both a Roth for me and a spousal Roth

for my husband. I did that when we got we got one of your uh pros.

>> Good. Great. >> And um he he said to get one we got him in April and he said, "Oh, hurry up and get a Roth before April 15th."

That's right. So we did that and then when we finally sat down with him, we had enough money saved to do another one for 2025. Max it out.

>> So what do you have?

started. >> What do you guys have total?

>> We have uh 32,000

in uh Roth right now and then we were

playing around just during the years and we have about 50 that our uh financial

advisor is rolling over about 50,000 that he's rolling over into IAS now that we're still in with the companies that we retired from. So just below 100,000 and then what is your house worth?

about 400,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, it would be one of these things if you guys did get into that situation, whether it's the insurance,

um some savings, you know, whatever you can put together, um to get into a

nursing home. And I'll be honest on it, this sounds it sounds horrible, but there is a stat that once you enter into a nursing home for on average, it's

there's not that long of a stay usually.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not either. So, it is kind of one of the last steps that family members will take if they're not able to care for um you

know, their family member. And and so that would be kind of that that last step, if you will. So, if I was in your shoes, I may ask about upping the long-term care. I'm just curious what other options are out there for you guys. Um, I would be looking at that because that's going to be very helpful type of insurance for you all if the time comes that you need in-house care,

nursing home, all of it. And you guys also are sitting on a great asset and you know what I mean? If something were to happen to either you or your husband and you did get to a point that you guys didn't have the money to cash flow it and yet there was a nursing home that you knew we he they needed to be in, you know, him or yourself, there's always the possibility of selling the house, you know, and figuring out what to do there. So, >> um, Don, I'm going to give you something.

Rachel made a great point. I looked it up. Uh, the average length of stay in a nursing home is 485 days. Now, of course, this varies, but averages do play out.

So, you know, it's horrible to, but that's the reality and we're talking about that. So, you know, between the pension and everything. I mean, Rachel, you make a very good point. It's not like you got to fund this crazy amount for five years, >> you know. So, >> um I think you guys are doing everything you can. What How much longer do you think you're going to work?

>> Um, as long as I can. I love it.

>> Okay. >> Do you work full-time? No, no, I do occasionally. Um, I'm a teacher and uh

sometimes I'll take a long-term sub job and sometimes right now I'm just doing dayto-day and uh >> I'll bet the kids love when Donna shows up to be the sub. You seem like a really nice sub. >> I hope so. [laughter] I hope they do. They always say they do, but you know. >> Yeah. Well, that's good. And what about your husband? Is he officially done working or still working? >> Yes. No, he's officially done. He's a golfer. He's he's fallen into the golf.

I love it. >> It's good for him.

>> Well, at least there's a little bit of a foreshadowing of watching your mom and how expensive it has been for or your mom or your dad um that you guys can start planning that [music] if that time were to come, how would we be able to cash flow that? So, thanks for the call, Donna. >> Uh do we know if people can search welfare chickens uh on Spotify or YouTube and find that rant? Do we know?

We don't know. >> I'm sure you can try. But >> they can't. Oh, you all missed it. It was really great. Donna said so.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman.

Thanks for being with us. We're here for you. 888255225

is the phone number. Let's go to Caitlyn who joins us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Caitlyn, how can we help?

>> Hi, good afternoon. Um, I'm a recent

college graduate from West Virginia University and I will start paying

student loan debt come January and I want to know what is the best and effective way to go about that.

>> How much student loans do you have?

>> They will be around $26,000.

>> And is it multiple loans?

Yes. >> Okay. So, what's the smallest amount?

>> Uh, the smallest amount I believe is about $5,000.

>> Okay. All right. So, what we Is that the only debt you have?

>> Yes, that is the only debt I have.

>> All right. Rachel, walk her through the baby steps. >> Are you working?

>> Yes, ma'am. I work a um full-time job.

>> Great. How much do you make a month? How much do you bring in?

Um about a month, maybe maybe $15 to

$1,800 a month.

>> A month. Okay. What are you doing?

>> Um I work at a um boutique.

>> A boutique. Okay. >> What kind of boutique?

>> Um a women's boutique. Just a locally owned. >> Like a spa? >> No, like a clothing store.

>> Women's clothing. >> Oh, >> sorry. A little slow on that one. >> Didn't know. [laughter] I was like, well, there's lots of different boutiques. There's like boutique hotels, >> boutique spas. Sorry.

>> Fair. >> None of this matters. Why do you Why I have a question on your income?

>> Yeah, >> that is for a college grad. That is way below what your expectations were, I'm guessing. Yes or no?

>> Yes. So, I've had this job for about two years. I worked this job throughout college, and that is the job I'm still currently at. >> Okay. What did you get your degree in?

uh business and marketing.

>> So, what do you want to do? And I'm not going to put you under pressure here on a show live, but give me a general idea.

It doesn't have to be a company and a title, but describe the work that you went to school for that you would love to have if I could just wave my pencil in the air and give it to you.

>> Well, the work I would be interested in is going into law school.

>> Okay. So, we went for business and marketing and we're like, nah, this is not what I want to do, but I'm just going to finish it. And then somewhere along the way, we discovered I want to be a lawyer in a specific type of lawyer.

>> Um, corporate law, sir.

>> Corporate law. Okay. So, a tiein to the business and marketing.

>> Yes. >> Okay. What's law school going to cost you?

>> Law school is probably going to cost me around probably $100,000.

>> And where are you going?

I have not yet made my decision. Um, but I'll be taking the LSAT soon.

>> Okay, great. I want to make a quick commercial and I'll hand it to Rachel. And but you got to get your two things.

Number one, you need to get your income up, >> right? >> Yeah. You should be making you should be making double. >> I don't even care what you're doing. Yeah. >> At this point, you need a target of $40 to $50,000. Let's just put it out there.

I don't want to limit you to that, but you you just need to get out there and find something because more cash the better. Now, uh, and Rachel will tell you what to do with that cash, but I just want to make a point on the ELSAT.

Um, years ago, I interviewed a a law school expert on this, and this is a fact, by the way. There are certain schools, you're going to have to do your homework on this, but you can figure it out easily, that based on your LSAT score, Rachel, if you get a high enough LSAT score, they will give you a full ride. And the reason is these aren't the prolific ones. Let me just go ahead and tell you, this isn't Harvard.

It's not the big time schools. These are the schools who nobody wants to go to their law school. So therefore, they're trying to get people into their law school because they want lawyers out there and they will give full rides.

And let me just make my my pitch on this. Nobody cares where you got your law degree from. And so the the tradeoff is Kayn, you have to pay for the LSAT.

And if you need to take the LSAT five times, take it. If we're aiming for and

we feel like the tutors will tell you, >> we can get you to this score which gets you a free ride. So that's my commercial. >> Yeah. It's worth investing, you know, five, six grand or it would be like an like honestly when you think about it.

>> Totally. >> With tutors and everything, >> I don't know what the current LSA cost is $100,000 degree for free. So >> yeah. So that's what you need more money for.

>> Yes. >> Plus we got to pay off these loans. So Rachel, tell her how we pay off these loans. >> And that needs to be your way to law school.

Kaitlin, I really want you to Yeah. >> see that because you're going to be $126,000 in debt if you don't. So, we want to really work hard to avoid all those student loans. >> Um, yeah.

So, it's getting your income up, Caitlyn. So, I mean, I really hate to say it, but I I mean, I would probably be looking for another job. I think it was a great thing to get you through college, but now that you're a college grad, you know, you made that investment for a reason.

my expenses. I would live on nothing and I would make it a goal to get this paid off in 18 months, 16 months, 14 months,

you know, and so I really think you can if you um do you have rent? Are you living at home? What's your living status? >> Um I live at home with my family.

>> Okay. So no rent. So, I would take full advantage and make a really really aggressive goal of getting this paid off and then at the same time be looking at the elsat stuff and make that also a part-time job. So, I don't know if it's a I don't know right now if it's a full-time job that you go and find, you know, a receptionist. I mean, anything like just go and answer phones. I mean, do something.

>> Or if you do the boutique during the day and you wait tables at night and you're doing a two two day, you know, a two job a day kind of thing to double this income. But this income needs to be doubled, Caitlyn. Yeah. >> You're a college grad and I think that you have you have things to offer and >> and again, it's it's kind of back to this college degree conversation that >> you got your degree for a reason to go and create a career and and so taking that knowledge and going and doing that and upping this income is going to be is going to be your number one goal.

>> Because Caitlyn, here's the deal. you are young enough uh and this debt is small enough that you can pay this off in a year, but you got to make more income to where you're putting two grand a month away.

$26,000 loan. Knock that out

>> and get it out of the way before the interest starts hurting you. Okay? uh because I know people that are that have your amount of loan debt and they're paying it for 15, 20 years because they're never catching up because the interest payment. >> So, you want to get this out of your life. And I just I'm telling you, if you trust me and you do your research, you can go to law school for free or for a very reduced amount that you can cash flow. And most people don't know that.

And please do that because you're going to just be so much more at peace. So, there's your homework assignment. Pretty straightforward, but you got to hustle.

Yep. >> So, [clears throat] thanks for the call. You know, Rachel, that is um I love when we get that call. And I and I'll be honest, I've not interviewed people in other lanes, but I I would almost bet you there's other professional lanes

>> like that that where certain schools are going, you know, like med schools are going, we want to get people in here.

And the sticker price on Vanderbilt, which is in the shadow of our campus here. Y >> versus a small school.

>> Totally. Yes. And it's an it's an ego play to go to say someone's like, "Hey, where's where are you going to law school?" And it's a >> Yeah. Harvard law that maybe Yeah. Or you're going to one that no one's ever heard of. It take I mean, you got to have some humility to it, but you're doing it in a wise way. You know what I mean? And so there's something >> but it just rarely comes up.

>> Your clients aren't going to go, "Hey, uh, I've heard rumors that you got your law degree from Greenbryer State." >> Vet school, law school, med school. I bet [music] George came when he had took his dogs into the vet, he didn't say, "Let me see your degree." before he said, "Save my dogs." That was all last week. So >> that poor guy, >> that poor guy and his dogs,

it's like a soap opera around here, folks. We don't have time to cover it.

>> We'll have him cover it, George, if he hosts [music] here in the next week.

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

>> Buying or selling your home is a big deal, folks. And with all the clickbait headlines and all of the uh social media

uh traps and all of the little hacks and all the things, it can be confusing

uh and a lot of conflicting data. And so we're here, as always, to give you the real real uh and tell you about the latest trends. So, let's just take a quick snapshot. Median home prices have continued to hold steady around 424,000.

In October, about one in five houses saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more room this winter to negotiate to get a better price. Mortgage rates dipped slightly to 5.49% 49% in October,

giving some buyers breathing room. But rates are unpredictable. The best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when they drop. So, if you'd like to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market.

That's rammissysolutions.com.

Or if you're on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the show notes. Nick is up in Detroit, Michigan. Nick, how can we help?

>> Hey, hello guys. Thanks. Grateful for the time, by the way. Appreciate it. >> Sure. >> Uh, yeah. So, I own a business. I've owned it about 10 years now. I've grown it from, you know, grossing maybe like 80k a year to now we're about 1.5

million a year. >> Congrats. What kind of business?

>> Oh, appreciate. Well, we uh are moratory transport. So, we we move the deceased.

>> Oh, is that right? >> Yeah. I'm sure you guys get that a lot. >> Well, no. And that and and so I just think this is interesting. So, 10 seconds on this is that we're not talking about the hearse. We're talking about to the to the funeral home from the hospital or from people's home. >> Precisely. Yeah. Actually, it's it's it's everything. The hear is included. So, >> Oh, you do that as well? >> Do the funeral gets rented.

>> Yep. >> Got it. Okay. Fantastic. So, >> storage, all of it. >> Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. Okay, great. So, keep going. >> Yeah. So, the issue is like growth is awesome. It went well. I was always on top of it, but it maybe was a little too quick. And I know uh Dave would hate me for it. Maybe all you guys would, but I have loans, a lot of them. [laughter] And so it's about 580,000.

And so the main question is my goal is to try to pay that off as quick as possible. But people that I, you know, admire and they're very intelligent people don't think that I have the funds like readily available for emergencies to do that and that I shouldn't do that.

>> Well, just give us your picture. So So we know you have $580,000 in loans just for the business. Correct.

>> Correct. >> And what is the monthly payment to service that debt? So, it's about 18 uh thousand >> 18,000 a month. Okay. And then uh give me a picture. Uh well, you are you

planning you expect to do 1.5 million this year 2025?

>> I am. Yep. We were doing 2.2. So, this we got kind of hit kind of hard.

It came down, [clears throat] but yeah, that's definitely sticking around. >> Okay. So, 1.5 top line, that's your gross. >> Yep.

>> Okay. What kind of retained earnings do you have? Do you have any savings in the business? >> Yeah.

So yeah, some some of the stats that are probably helpful is that like it varies from about maybe like one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 10 thou you know,000 to about 150,000 a month and the profits can range from negative 10,000 to about positive 30,000.

a snapshot from this year in like pretty average. >> How many months? Okay, but how many out of the 12 months were you in the negative? >> Um once at 2,000 and once negative 5,000. >> Okay. And your best >> and that includes paying it off. >> Gotcha. And your best month is 30,000 profit. Actual net profit.

>> And how much are you bringing home?

>> I pay myself like 40,000. I'm just trying to build something.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> Yeah. I don't spend money in my personal life or do much, but like a really cool way though, you know.

>> Sure. Yeah. Um, how much um how many

people do you have working for you?

>> I got 25 employees.

>> Okay. because I'm just trying to think where you can be lean on

um the expenses side because that's the way you're going to be getting obviously >> what's the debt vehicles >> uh there's about maybe 200 vehicles I

had to take 200 out for taxes that weren't paid so that was a big hit so I'm just paying back t payroll taxes >> all right did we learn our lesson on that >> we did I hired a new CPA not that it's you know I should be I should be looking at it too it's my fault >> right right that's okay not judging I just want to make sure it >> we've now adjusted for that and we're never going to have that surprise again. So that's that's good news. >> Of course. >> Yep.

>> Well, I think your friends are wrong that you if they're saying they shouldn't pay it off. U but >> yeah, I only have 50k in reserve and so their concern was like if you have a couple bad months in a row then you'd be done. And it's not an unwarranted concern but you know five years to two years it just seems really appealing >> to keep >> to be debtree like instead of five years. I think you can do it.

But again, it's the same advice we give other people, Rachel. We don't tell them to just go I mean, it's a babystep process, right? We say smallest to largest when we're talking to personal >> uh debt. And so, in your case, >> it's all it's you're just chipping away at it.

And so, you got to come up with a business budget, too, that goes, "All right, yeah, >> I'm going to have some variable numbers here.

And Rachel, start to correct me when I get wrong here, but you're looking every month at the books. And when when the books are cleared that month, we know, okay, this month >> we cleared $5,000 net. That's after

paying you and everybody else.

>> Okay. Well, then that's going to change how much we're going to put towards the debt. But then we got a big month of 30,000. We can put more. And so it's just being really disciplined and looking each month to do what you can >> and as you [clears throat] grow, knock this thing out. Yeah. Is it seasonal, Nick at all, for you? The ups and downs?

>> Not really. No, it's pretty pretty steady. Maybe winter's a little busier, but not enough to be like, you know, seasonal work. >> What can I ask a really dumb question?

[laughter] >> Sure. >> I understand it's about people dying, but a aside from that, what causes it to drop from 2 whatever

million you said, forgive me for forgetting, to 1.5?

In my in my case, it was a client.

>> Uhhuh. A client that was >> I don't know how to say it. >> Yeah. Because we, you know, we work for, you know, all the funeral homes or, you know, we were the counties, the medical examiners, colleges, of life.

>> So, a client dropped off.

>> Correct. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Big one. >> So, are you in the in the process of

replacing them?

>> I mean, that's that's the goal. I mean, I'm sure every business has its challenges, but in this industry, it's just super slow to change. If you have a director of a funeral home, they use a service for 30 years, >> right? >> Unless there's a reason to change. >> Yeah. You got >> to kind of be there and just be ready.

>> Yeah. It's so related. >> Otherwise, I get creative other ways.

>> Okay. All right. I was just curious about that. So, I mean, this is a Rachel thoughts on that. I mean, this is just a uh >> And I was just trying to run some quick.

>> Do you think like 50,000 in the bank as far as like maybe like that just being the reserve amount? Is that comfortable?

You would think with 50,000 payroll a month? I would probably do 3 months reserves. >> I would do three months. >> 150,000.

I mean, so for me to save that much, that might be a year or two, right? So, right. So, I would probably lower that first. >> Yeah.

Because I always think too if you guys because if you're being aggressive on the debt and you have two bad months and you only have one left, you could pause the aggression on the debt, stockpile some money, pause that for about three months to pile up some money, and then press play back on getting out of debt. But yeah, I mean I would have a goal to try to do all of this and gosh I mean if you stayed focused um >> I can be focused >> what yeah I mean give yourself two years I don't know what you can do very >> you know your business >> what would you if you have a bang up year like just phenomenal growth or just a great year $2 million year >> yeah at this point any growth is majorly profit you know so majority profit ass it's I'm at that line right >> all right so after you get the three months of retained earnings in there to be able to cover payroll, every nickel of the operation.

>> H [clears throat] towards debt? Yeah. I mean, >> I don't think two years is out of the question. I think that that could be done. I mean, if if I'm paying 18,000 right now in that debt and I have some months where I'm making 10 or 20. Yeah, of course I can, you know, be doing 30.

>> I think you're going to feel Listen, that's the point. You're going to love not having any debt on this business.

Can you imagine? Can you imagine just for a second not having $18,000 a month

going out to service that debt?

>> Yeah, that that's why I feel like, you know, sometimes I'm like, "Oh man, my business is not doing well." But I'm like, "No, it's it's healthy. It just needs to >> come through. It just needs to make it through this this moment." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I would make I would probably make a a two-year goal and just say, you know what, if and especially if you lowered what you have, that's going to throw a big chunk at it, which is really great.

and get the IRS debt paid off first, the 200 that you had the IRS and then everything else. [music] Yeah. Start chipping away at it. But I think if you stay focused and diligent, Nick, honestly, um I think you're going to see a lot of progress and and throw in that extra at it. Um >> yeah, I think it's great. You know,

business is business. I don't know. We need I guess we need Nick's business.

>> Everybody's dying. Let's do it.

>> It's horrible. I'm trying not to make any jokes. It's a very serious topic, but it's just like I wanted to know what was affected his business. He's like, "Well, it's a little busier in the winter." I'm like, "Oh, boy.

>> [music]

>> All right. Uh, [music] it's time for a uh fun fun call here with Stephen who is

a baby steps millionaire. He's in Minnesota. Let's bring him on here.

Stephen, how are you today?

>> I'm just fine and dandy. I'll bet you are, sir. As a baby steps millionaire, you don't have a whole lot of gripes, do you?

>> Uh, not too much. >> All right. >> I could I could gripe and whine, but nobody's going to listen to me anyway.

>> I You know what, Stephen? I appreciate that cuz for a second I thought you were going to give me a few and I thought, "Oh, I opened up a can of worms here." But hey, we are so excited to talk to you. Um, tell us how old you are, Stephen.

>> I'm 72. >> 72. Okay. And what is your net worth?

Uh net worth is around 4.7 million.

>> 4.7 million.

>> What is that made up of?

>> Uh multiple things. Land. Uh I'm a

farmer. Retired farmer. I call it unemployed, but >> um >> no retired. We'll say retired.

I've invested in some uh apartment

complexes, uh IRA,

um

>> stocks. >> Yeah, that's awesome. Um what was the

from an income perspective, Stephen, what was the lowest you've ever made in your life?

>> The lowest I've ever made probably lost about 20 or $30,000.

>> Oh, a negative. Okay, that's good. A negative >> that that's one of the problems with farming is it doesn't always it's not always profitable. >> Sure. >> You can have a real bad year. Yeah. Um >> what was the best year you ever had?

>> I The best year I've ever had

probably between two two50,000.

>> Great. Well done.

>> Again, it it [clears throat] all depends on crop yields and market prices. And

>> what was your uh what was your specialty? Was it crops?

>> It uh raised corn and soybeans and I also raised hogs later on. Uh started

out with a cow herd.

Um >> nice. >> Very nice. You did a little bit of everything. All right. Now, question we love to ask our baby step billionaires uh is did you inherit any of the 4.7 million? >> Yes, I did. I inherited probably about 800,000 in land from my dad when he

passed away. >> Okay. >> Which was about I'm thinking about 18

years ago. >> Okay. All right. >> But you made 4 million on your own.

>> It's very impressive.

>> Yeah. Between me and my wife. Yeah.

>> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. As a family.

>> Can't forget her. >> That's awesome. >> Now, was she active was she active in the business, the farming business?

>> She was actually a registered nurse. Oh, okay. Gotcha. >> And put it bluntly, she probably

worked to support my farming habit.

[laughter] >> That's a good lady. That's awesome. Okay. Do you have a degree?

>> Yes, I do. I have a degree in animal science. >> Nice. And what was your uh GPA?

>> 2.004.

>> Hey, that's my kind of guy right there.

I'm not even sure I sniffed 2.0, 0.

Rachel in college was probably in that range. >> Yes. >> Well, my my college years, I had an elbow problem that went from the table to my mouth. [laughter] >> It uh got into I've I've always claimed

that I've only been drunk once in my life. It just lasted five and a half years. [laughter] >> You you you like the beer, did you, Stephen?

>> A little too much. [laughter] >> Well, that he enjoyed his college. did.

And you know what? He got through 2.0.

Uh, and now he's lived to tell about it.

I appreciate the honesty, Stephen.

Honesty is good. >> You're a hero all across America, I'm sure. Fantastic stuff.

>> All right. >> The other thing is it did take me 17 and a half years to get that degree.

>> That's right. Oh, really?

>> Taking classes here and there, all over the place, and getting married and having kids. Just stuck stuck it out.

>> You know, I've never heard of the 17 and 12 year plan. Um, that's really fun.

>> Not not much of a plan.

>> No, not at all. But you've done well.

Okay. So, um, do you drive uh brand new

cars?

>> No, not very often. I did buy my wife uh

the last car I bought uh I actually bought her a new one. >> Good. What kind of car?

>> Uh, it's a Kia Sarrento.

>> Oh, great. The Kia. And did you pay cash? >> Yes. Okay. We've been paying cash for our vehicles for a long time.

Um, one of one of the things that we have done is uh my dad was very good about teaching me some different things about finance uh that line up with the

financial peace program. Mhm.

>> Um, one of the things that he taught me was is that if you borrow money, it's easy to borrow money, but it's a bugger to pay it back. >> Well said.

>> And, uh, but even in in spite of that,

he also said, "Don't use your own money, use somebody else's." >> Well, that doesn't make sense.

[laughter] >> No, it doesn't. I was going to say not

sure that aligns with the show, but you just wanted to tell us what he said anyway, which is great. All right, so is there any advice you would give to uh to your 25-year-old self or 25 year olds that are uh uh maybe drinking a little too hard in college right now? What and and they want to win financially? What would you tell them?

>> Just keep working. Um, my wife and I both it it's uh I mean you guys always

preach the best way to to get out of debt and get wealth is to work hard and

increase your income. Even though my wife is uh a registered nurse, I mean she worked multiple jobs. She's got her own little sewing business >> where she she designs uh digitizes

designs which she actually sells over the net internet all over the world. And

then she uh sews them out for people too. And uh she played organ at the church. Um she actually taught college

>> my gosh. >> Two different colleges uh for taught nursing programs at two different colleges for a while. >> Wow. well-rounded lady.

>> Yeah, I kind of outkicked my coverage with her. >> Sounds How long have you guys been married?

>> Well, you'd have to ask her. She's listening in, but uh she'll tell you 51, but I say 50 good years.

>> Okay. [laughter] Okay. I feel like

>> a couple days here, couple days there where it wasn't so good. My It was usually my fault. >> Now, okay. And now I'm catching up. I'm going to use that one myself, Stephen, if you don't mind. That's good.

She would say, "I like that." >> 50 though. Congratulations. 51. That's amazing. That's amazing. >> That's awesome. Actually, we've been uh we were high school sweethearts. So, I've been hanging around with that woman for almost 55 years, 56 years. Bless

her, man. >> Okay. What marriage advice do you have, Stephen? Being married 50 years, what would you say to someone that's newly wed? >> Love this.

>> Maintain communication.

>> Keep talking to each other.

Um that that's the important thing. And I mean that's uh one of the biggest things in our finances too is that we're always talking to each other.

Um just constantly letting each other know where we're at, what we need, uh what we want. Can we do this? Can we do not do that? And uh

>> and be willing to to be honest and and sometimes say no, we can't do that.

>> Yep. Yep. And be on the same page with it. Yep. >> Love that. >> That's great. Stephen, >> Stephen, thank you so much uh for sharing your Baby Steps Millionaire story. Uh it's always fun, Rachel, to uh

walk through the journey of these folks, you know, whether they be 41, 51, 61, 71. Yeah. Uh whether they, you know, >> he had some uh good oneliners in there, Ken, and so did you. May I quote you, Ken? >> Yes. when we asked what kind of car his wife >> he bought his wife uh >> a Kia Sarrena and you said oh the Kia

[laughter] >> they're a family >> you know I hear good things about the Kia I've never owned one >> it literally sounds like a family I don't know why it just made me chuckle [laughter] made Kelly laugh too the Kia >> well you know it's a relatively new car brand in the US I don't know much about it uh quick poll in the audience thumbs

up on the Kia or thumbs Thumbs down in the audience.

>> Oh, we're getting mixed reviews. We're getting >> No, no, no mix. It's like 90% thumbs

down. >> Stephen, you may not have picked a great car for the wife. I don't know. >> I got to go get Consumer Reports. This will be >> the Hondas or the >> We know Hondas and Toyotas have lasted a long time. >> Oh, the Kia. >> Oh, the Kia.

Our

scripture of the day is Jeremia. Miah 9:23. This is what the Lord says. Let not the wise boast of their wisdom or the strong boast of their strength or the rich boast of their riches.

[music] Our quote today from Thomas Soul. We all enter the world knowing nothing. But by the time we're teenagers, we know it all. Sometimes it's decades later before we know enough to realize how little we know.

>> Oo, that's good. >> Boy, I'm living that right now. >> I agree with that. >> I got a 16, 17, and 20, and you'd think I was a village idiot.

>> Like I'm surprised dad knows how to get to work and get back home.

>> Is it raining? Is dad out there standing in the middle of the rain? >> Dad, come on. Dad, >> they just think you are just stupid. Is that it? >> It's coming. It's coming. You got three >> cuz they they think we are just >> right now. You're you're heroes. >> I meant Yeah. Yeah. >> You are the sun, the moon, the stars.

>> Yes. Yes. And then it turns.

>> Middle school it starts to turn and then full-blown teenager you you've lost your mind. >> You just think [laughter] It's a miracle. Mom can dress herself.

>> It's unbelievable. Unbelievable. It's It's just part of it. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Keeps you humble. >> And then you realize, oh, they do know something, right? >> And then you realize in your own life, wow, I may not know as much as I thought. Maybe the world is bigger than what I was even thinking.

You know, >> that's right. >> And you start thinking, >> yeah. >> Oh, man. Come to work every day and give advice on the radio when you feel like an idiot all the time at home.

Anyway, it's part of it, folks. Welcome to Parenting Teenagers. >> Whatever. Your kids love you. We had dinner. We had lunch there. Love with >> love an idiot. >> I know. We had lunch with um some of our team and Ty. We're in Chicago. Yes. He like loves you. It's great.

>> Yeah. But you know, they still think you're stupid. [laughter] Uh Gary is up next in Austin, Texas. Gary, how can we help? >> Hey, Ken Rachel. Thanks for taking my call. Um my wife and I, we've been

married. We got our we had our 20 year anniversary back in January and we realized >> Congratulations. >> Oh, thank you. We should be further along financially than we are. I think we're doing okay, but we could be doing way better. And um basically my debt

right now, we have $12,000 we owe on one car and we owe $7,000 on our three

teenagers orthodontic bill.

>> Oh. >> Oh yeah. >> Boy, I've got post-traumatic on that, dude. That's that's brutal.

>> Yeah. So, but other than that, we have no other debt. Um, I do have a

beneficiary IRA that I got back in 2010 when my grandpa passed away. Okay.

>> It had 24,000 at the time. I've taken the minimum distribution out every year and now it's about 70 grand. Of course, every day with the market right now, it's kind of fluctuating. >> Sure.

>> Um, >> but my my question and plus my teenagers, we have two cars at home and we're looking to potentially get a third car because they want to go out and work, but it's hard because I have four kids.

>> How old are they? >> So, we want to have a little maybe $5 to $8,000 in cash to buy a car. So, basically, my question is, if I took out say 20 or $25,000 from that beneficiary

IRA, I know it'd have tax implications, but would it be worth it to pay off my orthodontist and my car? So, we have two cars owned outright in cash and then we could potentially buy a third car in cash and then that way I can move on to the baby steps from there.

>> No, I really wouldn't. I don't think I would unplug that IRA. I mean, I just feel like that that's invested. I think there's um a part of that that um yeah,

you would pay taxes on it for sure, but there's a part of me that wonders, okay, what how much money do you guys make?

uh about influx rates of overtime, but somewhere around 180 a year.

>> 180 a year.

>> Okay. >> Um yeah, why don't we live on 90

and do all of this?

>> Yeah. I mean, if I heard >> live on 90 for a year, >> 7,000 in dental, 12,000 in a car. Yes.

>> Correct. >> That's it. That's the only debt.

>> Yes.

And who's whose car is the 12,000 on?

>> It's my wife. Well, it's both cars are ours. Our teenagers primarily use the one car in my life and I use the other. I have a work vehicle that I can take that I use most of my day for work, but when I'm I can't use it when I'm not working.

>> And Gary, just cash flow this. I mean, part of the baby steps is a level of changing sacrifice. You know, if you cash out this IRA, nothing in your life has to change. you're just plugging in money and fixing your problems and you're unplugging something that actually is going to be able to go up in value so quickly um over time.

because how much is in the IRA?

>> Uh that that particular one is 70,000 >> 70. Yeah. I don't think I would do it. I would I would lower I would lower lifestyle, Gary. I would live I would have you guys be on a really really tight budget for one year and get all this knocked out.

So, we've been doing the um Every Dollar app since our anniversary last January and um we have been making progress at it. I guess my thoughts are I really want to get to be because I'm I'm 43 years old and I do have two Roth or two Roth IAS now, but they're just not as much. I started when I was 18 and I'm just disappointed that it's only worth mine's only worth 10000,000 and my wife's is like 60,000.

>> So basically my thought is if I just took this out, deal with the tax and

then I could start really hitting that 15% um >> you know amount toward my retirement and kind of loaning it earlier.

>> I understand your reasoning. I understand your reasoning, but I'm with Rachel on this and I would tell you to channel the thought, the emotion you just gave us, which is gosh, I I only have 160 and I wish I had more. And you

don't want to touch that because that's that's that's working for you. And so I

would I would take that angst, that frustration, and I'd figure out how to make more money. I'd figure out how to sell some stuff. I'd figure out a way for the two high schoolers to get to their jobs in other ways or whatever, whatever. or whatever. Um, and I would

knock these debts out. 19,000 on your income, >> I know >> is very, very doable. You know, we're talking about, and you don't have to answer this on the air, but this is the homework assignment. What would need to change or what would you all need to do?

I'm talking about you and your wife collectively as a team. What you need to do to be able to put $2,000 a month

towards the 19,000?

And I I just think if you frame it that way, you might be surprised about how doable that is. And now we're doing this in less than a year.

[clears throat] >> Okay. >> And now you're building the emergency fund. >> Do you guys have savings at all anywhere else?

>> Um, a little. I mean, I save we have a

school account. Our kids are have been homeschooled and so we have it's actually more expensive than it's not crazy expensive but it's you know $3,000 a semester probably we pay for them so we have a money for that that's really allocated for that. >> Sure. Sure.

But anything else in savings? >> Just $1,000. We we recently brought it down to thousand to help pay pay down the car. >> Okay.

Gotcha. Gotcha. >> Here's the crazy thing real quick. Let's just run through this super fast.

The $12,000 car.

>> Um, probably mid20s.

>> All right. >> The high 20s. >> Since we're being uncomfortable and we're telling you to be uncomfortable, Rachel's right. Let me tell you what I would do. Now, I'm extreme on this. Rachel, you tell me if you think this is too extreme on this one, but I'd sell the car and knock that debt out. What's that? What's that monthly payment?

>> The minimum is like just under 400.

>> All right. So, we just So, here's what happens. If it's worth 22 and you owe 12, if I'm doing the math right, you're going to have somewhere in the $8 to $10,000 range uh off the sale of that.

You go get an $8 to $10,000 car. And it is what it is. We're in a season right now of rebuilding and you're jumpstarting the rest of your life. So, we're going to make a sacrifice. What we just did there is we paid for the car, the the secondary, you know, we're paying for another car cash and we just freed up $400 a month. That's what I

would do. Is that too extreme?

>> No, not necessarily. >> I know there's only 12 left and I know that's why. But you know, >> Yeah. I mean, you could you guys can make some moves, Gary. To Ken's points to get this cleaned up. I mean, you really could. Um, >> now you only got seven grand left.

>> Yeah. >> And $400 extra to put towards that,

>> right? >> I mean, if I wanted to get it out of the way quickly, that's what I would do. and not take the easy button and pay taxes.

>> And I don't want to mess with my investments right now at 43 years of age. I don't want to touch that. I need that to be growing. >> Well, and my other thing is I'm like, it's a $180,000 income, you know? I'm like, I think you guys could really do this in a year. I really do.

>> Um, >> so I think there's something about the discipline, um, which you guys are have.

You started you, you know, the thousands and you're throwing the rest of the debt. It's amazing. >> Um, but I just don't think I wouldn't touch I wouldn't touch [music] IAS. I really wouldn't. >> Yeah, I agree with you. All right, folks. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to [music] walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 127. Protect Your Wallet From Other People’s Chaos | August 12, 2025


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[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships. Thank you for joining us, America. Ken Coleman Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author and host of the brand new Runaway Hit on the Ramsey Networks. It's called Front Row Seat, where he does long form interviews with all kinds of famous and big people that are uh giving you insights into

success. It's really, really good. Ken,

who's dropping this week?

>> Uh, of course you asked me and I don't even know who's dropping tomorrow. I want to say, >> uh, it might be Rachel Cruz. She's in the hopper. That was a fun conversation.

>> Gary Gary uh Gary is already out.

>> That already came out. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Lieutenant Dan.

>> Yeah. And we have Ethan Cross is has been out for a week. It's doing very well. Ethan is a professor and a two-time bestselling author uh on Pivot and it's all about mindset. And so this is all about emotion in the professional

setting, in your personal life. How do we shift our mental mindset to win? So it's pretty deep stuff. I can't say the word pivot anymore after uh co I get PTSD. >> Actually, I said that wrong. The name of his book is Shift. >> Oh, that's much better. That's a good book. Okay, now I know the book.

>> It's a runaway bestseller called Shift.

>> Huge. It's a great book. I didn't I didn't I didn't hear what you're talking about. >> Well, yeah, I used the wrong What was the other What was the other co word we can't say anymore? Oh, unprecedented. >> Unprecedented. >> Oh my god. >> And you're right. That was ruined in about three days. >> I'm just over both of those words for the rest of my life. All right. Pamela is in Alabama. Hi, Pamela. How are you?

>> Hey, thanks for having me on the show today. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Hey. Well, this question is a mix of financial and family issues. Maybe words of caution for your listeners, Mr.

Ramsey. Um, we recently changed our financial advisor. I was with him for 40 years and my husband uh moved his money over there 13 years ago, a second marriage, and we both retired, myself as recently as 2023.

My adviser was my brother. I come from a

larger family of seven. There seemed to be a lot of unspoken rules. Use your sister as your insurance agent, your brothers as your financial advisor, your other siblings for such and such. And I

have to admit, I was on autopilot, Miss Ramsay, for about 40 years, finishing college, marriage, kids, growing a career, getting divorced, remarried, you know, life. Um, I simply handed my brother money over time and occasionally looked in on my investments.

I I do want to be clear, he did no harm.

However, he did nothing special either.

And now that I'm retired and I've been studying indepth about retirement planning, I think I've I've got a great deal of ground to make up around tax planning, things like Roth conversions.

I got hammered on deferred compensation plans, things like that. He never had those conversations with us.

So before I retired, my husband and I requested of him multiple times of a retirement plan and it just felt like it fell on deaf ears. Um even tax planning

and then our net worth increased more.

Our last parent died and I got I don't

know how to say this. I wanted some privacy um in in what our financial position was. So, we did eight months of really

hard work and research and we jump shipped and we hired an adviser that's meeting and exceeding all of our needs and we feel relieved and confident every day of where we're going. I mean, financially, tax planning, charitable plans, legacy. This was not an easy thing for us to do. >> Oh, it's very painful. >> So, here's my question. >> Very painful. I'm sorry. But very painful, but very wise.

>> So, here's my question. telling my brother the news went horribly, disastrous.

He didn't want to hear our reasons. He heaped a flurry of fbombs on us. Um, he

announced I was dead to him, other unpleasantries.

Even his wife and one of my siblings piled it on. I mean, I was beyond shocked. And when we hung up the phone, because we live in different states, my husband looked at me and said, "Um, I guess we made the right decision." And I said,"I guess our money really wasn't our money." And it's been almost a year

and virtually no communication from nearly any of my siblings. And I know I had turned down at least one family event because I was concerned I might get attacked there. So gosh, is there reconciliation here? I mean, our financial life is our lifeline and we we

have to do what was right for us. But I hate I hate this family risk and and fracture.

>> What have you seen in all of your your journeys in life? >> Wow. I'm sorry. That's so painful. Um

>> yeah. >> Well, you did obviously your husband's right. Made the right decision and and this all confirms it. Um reconciliation,

it sounds to me like is up to him.

>> I don't think that's I don't think that ball's on your side of the net.

>> Okay. um you know, he's the one that said, "You're dead to me. He's the one that sicked his wife and the sibling on you." And those kinds of things. And so,

um you know, I do a couple things. I just sit back and and let it cool. Um

you you might consider writing and rewriting and rewriting and rewriting a letter before you send it. Um, I don't

think that boundaryless people, people that don't respect boundaries, will ever accept a reason for the boundary.

>> Mhm. >> In other words, there's no amount of logic that's going to make him okay.

This is not a logic scenario.

This is just, >> hey, listen. I know you don't. It It might sound something like this. I know you don't understand what we did. Um, I

wish I could have explained it better.

I'm sorry for that. Our goal was not to hurt you. Our goal was to get some privacy and to get a new set of eyes and

we've done that. But we're very sorry we hurt you in the process. That was not something we wanted. And anytime that you we love you and anytime you want to talk um uh and you know have a relationship, I'm here >> or just something that's o something openhanded like that. and um you know uh

um and sometimes that changes it. But

don't try to work get him to be convinced that this was the smartest thing you ever did. It's just simply this was something I had to do and I know you don't understand and I'm so sorry. >> That's that simple >> because the more you get into it, the more it picks the more the poor salt in the wound.

>> Right. Right. Because basically you're telling him he sucks at his job, which by the way he does.

>> Well, >> well, he does. I mean, >> I I I know >> that was the conclusion you came to anyway. >> Right. >> No point in bringing that up. No point in bringing that up. It's just like >> no is a complete sentence.

>> Okay. I I'll give you an example of a similar situation. Um >> that that it evokes the same emotions as at Ramsey. We've got 1100 team members and sometimes someone's time here is up.

We've warned them. We've talked to them.

We've coached them. We've been through a process of unpleasant uh conversations.

And finally, their last day is today. We

don't have a long conversation. It's a minute and a half, >> right? >> We've talked about this and the decision has been made that today's your last day. All the emotions, all the stuff and all that. I I understand. But the decision has been made that today's your last day. The less you say, the better.

In other words, in those things, >> yeah, Pamela, I would say this very quickly. I would have a boundary to protect yourself, but I also wouldn't give him more power than he deserves. In other words, I'd show up at family events, smile and wave, uh, and don't

give him power to exclude you when you did nothing wrong.

>> I'd consider that. Now, if it's just crazy wacky, then then get away from it.

>> Yeah. Dr. Henry Cloud's book, Boundaries, would help your mind.

[Music]

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[Music]

John's with us in Oregon. Hey, John.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey, Dave. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I have a question for you. Um, I'm in college now and I just, um, I'm starting my sophomore year. I uh my siblings or my parents have been uh took money from me in high school as like borrowing it to supplement their income um and then just didn't pay it back and now they're doing it for my siblings.

>> How much money did you have in high school?

>> I had well I was making about

$5 to $8,000 a year just working part-time and then full-time during the summers. >> How much money did they take from you?

about $3,000 total after uh before I

could get my own bank account and then all my money isn't there now.

>> And you you said you're off at school now?

>> Yeah, I'm in college now. So, I have my own bank accounts. It's all separate.

I'm good. >> You're you're how old? You're how old?

>> I'm 19. >> Okay. Wow. I'm sorry. And now that's happening to your little brothers and sisters. Okay. Financial abuse. Yeah.

Okay.

>> What's wrong with your parents? That's so weird.

>> I mean, I think they I mean, we've had some issues where happened where my mom had an injury that's been working through like a like a legal case or whatever and stuff and they just she lost her job and so they've just been running on not much, but like it's okay, you know, I get if you know they pay you back and something in a month or two or something like that, but when they it's been years, >> it's really not okay. I mean, >> grown grown-ups don't take kids money.

That's just not okay for any reason to borrow or otherwise. That's just wrong.

I mean, there's just something wrong with the family script, isn't there?

>> Yeah. So, I don't I just wondering your advice cuz I'm I'm okay now, but um I

just want to know what your thoughts because they're they're smart. They're going to be successful, but you know, when they're trying to get ready to, you know, go into college or get their first car, it's like, you know, how are they supposed to do this? So, [Music]

Wow,

that's a tough situation. I'm sitting here thinking through this because they can't try to any ideas that I had and I had two or three pop in my mind about how they could protect their money. But the problem is they live in their house and if they're being abused in that way where they're taking their money, them hiding money from your parents isn't a legitimate solution just because of the tension and all of that and the craziness. So there's not much they can do.

>> Yeah. And they just justified it because like, you know, it's either we're going to put food on the table and like you're going to eat or like we're going to, you know, >> you know, that kind of thing. That was what they >> I mean, why don't they work?

>> Well, they they work and they make good money. They just don't they don't have a budget. They don't >> I mean, what what is good money? Because food on the table is not good money if you have to take it from a teenager.

>> Yeah, they don't have good money.

>> Well, I I think they make definitely over 100 grand. Um so that was a couple years ago I heard it. >> So these people are just whacked.

>> They're just whacked. Okay. How old are your siblings?

>> Uh like uh 16 and 17 in high school. So like right around the age to get a car and then um >> yeah, >> you know, saving up for getting out of or going into college. Are there equally wacky stories that you're not bringing up and we don't have time to cover, but is there a lot of wackiness besides this issue for them and your parents?

>> Um, I think there's kind of a weirdness around money. You know, we um I was the first one to actually start making money and like have, you know, to get a joint bank account as my first account. Um, and then just start making money with summer jobs to save for college.

>> And I think just as things were tight, it was like, oh, it's right there. It's so it's just easy to transfer some over.

Hey, we'll pay you back 500 bucks this 500 bucks and >> and when we get paid or whatever, >> I guess I mean you you've spoken to them about it. They don't give a rip. Um they justify it, which is absolutely ludicrous. Um typically what some kind of weirdo like this will do. Um I mean, you have two options. One is just make peace with it and move on with your life. Uh, two is interfere and that is

to call your siblings up and say, "Hey, if you want to open up a bank account over here, I'll help you open up one and you can put all your money over here and I'll help you do that." You can do that at 19 >> and um, you know, have side a bank. It's not hiding it. It's just saying, "Mom and dad," and if your parents say anything, well, you you stole all my money. I'm trying to keep you from stealing theirs.

>> Yeah, >> right. >> That's what I'd say. I would just say, you know, you're freaking thief.

>> I'm not sure. I don't think they would, but it would add a lot of tension to any and all family gatherings we have after that. >> Yeah. Yeah. They've already done that.

>> Let me Let me help you with this. There's a big old elephant with his butt sitting in the middle of your living room already. Y'all are walking around it. >> Yeah. >> Acting like it's not there. He's a big sucker.

>> The elephant in the room. You know what I'm talking about, right? >> That your parents are thieves. Yeah.

There's tension in the room. You've already addressed it.

>> You It's just that they don't feel it.

That's the only difference.

>> The rest Everybody else goes, "Oh yeah, we got to watch out for them."

It's like the flirty step uncle. I mean, you got to stay away from Bob, you know?

Oh my god. She's like, "No, of course we know. We talk about Bob and we keep Bob away from you." No. I mean, come on.

>> I David, sorry, Bob, but >> call me out on this, David, if I'm wrong. >> There's a somewhere really pissed right now. If I were I'm trying to put myself in your brother's shoes 16 and 17. If my mom and dad did this to me and I'm trying to be as honest as I can.

I legitimately think that if I confronted them, I'm talking about your siblings and they were still doing it, I think I would have left. I would have gone to family. I would have gone somewhere because I think that's such a breach of trust.

>> Yeah. It's really the lack of integrity here and the the the ethics of this are just scummy. So yeah, I you you know

>> is that extreme? Call me out if I'm wrong. I just trying to be honest. >> The other thing is I I just I you know I don't know what to do because here's the thing. You're not going to fix them.

>> No. >> Nothing in this is going to fix them.

But denial doesn't fix them either.

>> I know. >> So I don't know. I like throwing a grenade in the middle of it personally, but that's just cuz I'm a hillbilly. So I like throwing a grenade in the middle of everything in case see what happen.

>> What would you have done if that scenario was happened to you when you were 16? I mean, in our culture, we all left every for a lot of reasons. You know, it was just like we're getting out of here. You're not welcome.

You don't want to be here. I'm going to do some better somewhere else. It's and you know, and part of that was just getting the little eiglets out of the nest. You know, that's okay, too.

But the, you know, no 28-year-olds in the basement in our culture.

I'm sorry. That's just God, that's two in a row of these things. Whacked family stuff. Yeah, >> we're just going to sell Henry Cloud's book all day. And it's it's an old book, but still selling it. Yeah.

>> Um, boundaries.

>> I I uh John, I tell you what I'd like for you to do. I'd like for you to take advice from someone other than us.

>> Yeah. >> Because we're just stirring up trouble here. And I don't think that's wise either. So, I if I were you, I would get with a local pastor there.

And if you're not plugged into a good church, get plugged into a good church and get some get some good godly counsel from someone that is a pastoral counsel that just says, "Okay, what should happen here?" Um, I mean, if this were another kind of abuse, it would be against the law and and social services would come in, but this is just financial abuse. They're just stealing the money and uh and they don't need it to eat. That's absolute hogwash. If they make 100,000 and they're not choosing food over choosing stealing their teenagers money, they're not choosing that's that's just bull crap.

That's a narcissistic bull crap line. Whether they're a narcissist, I don't know, but it's a narcissistic line. It's gaslighting.

Wow. Uh I don't I I I hesitate to send

the 19-year-old in to do battle in this.

I agree. So, um, but but you know, you

can either do nothing and just, you know, talk to your siblings on the side and say, "Hey, I don't have the money." Or, um, talk to them on the side and and just be right up front. Say, "I'm going to help them open a bank account because of what you did to me and you've never paid me back." And they can't get a car cuz you keep taking their money. And then if they're pissed, they're pissed.

I mean, so what? Um, you know, worse

things could happen than pissing off people like this. So, somebody needs to do something. But I John, I hate to send you into the battle by yourself. So, I'd put some counsel in your corner and let

them talk through it with you. It's just

know from us that we're verifying that this is cray cray. It's nuts. Okay.

[Music]

[Music]

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webinar. Okay, Ken. Um, I got a sidebar

because we got two in a row uh that are tremendous crazy family u

uh boundary issues. Um, and

so it's fair to state personal

finance, the problem with personal finance is

people >> that the people that we find that are

successful in their careers, which you work with all the time, like at Front Row Seed and all of that, and the people that we find simultaneously that are successful in their wealth building. um and that are successful in their spiritual walk and so on. Uh they

overcome the people and they embrace the people, the good people. They overcome the bad people and embrace the bad the good people. Um everyone has it. Some get more than their share uh more of a dose of craziness to start off life. Coming from a dysfunctional family and my family put the fun in dysfunctional. Yeah, that one. Now, you come from that family, it it's a it's a rough start. You know, like that kid there, that was tough. >> Yeah. And um

but what I want to point out to our listener base right now is that unless

and until you deal with those things

uh not only between your own ears but you set healthy relational boundaries

that do not allow uh the takers to

interfere with your progress. Whether they take your joy, take your hope, or take your money.

You don't allow the takers to take advantage of you and to interfere with your progress until you set enough boundaries. I'm going to love you from a distance about two miles.

Get your butt out of here because you're just nuts. Your negative nanny. Every time I'm around you, all you can do is talk about negative crap and I need to move in another direction. And so, learning to set those boundaries is very painful. >> Mhm. >> But the sooner you set them, the faster your progress begins. And you will not overcome those things unless you put some fences up. You cannot they are bigger hurdles than any mathematical 401k question you can ever ask me. Any

stupid Bitcoin idea you've got. Whatever it is you're trying to do with money is not going to work until you put learn to deal with the people in your life. And that includes some of you that are dating right now and you you don't need to marry that one.

That one's going to be a long life.

They're fun right now, but you know in your heart of hearts that one's going to be rough. You're going to spend your whole life dealing with Nutty.

And you're going to wake up every morning with Nutty and go to bed every night with Nutty. And that just that's crud, man. That's a long Don't don't marry that one. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. I mean, one of the reasons that I've been able to accomplish the things I've been able to accomplish is my wife's sanity and strength.

She's adds value to the whole process

every day. She does not cost me emotion

hardly ever. She does not cost me, you

know, ridiculous scenarios that I have to deal with while I'm trying to get my freaking work done. And it's one of the things that that and one of the reasons she's got a good life is the same thing is I do that for her. Add value to her in those areas. You same I've watched you and Stacy do this for 20 years. 25 years we've known each other. Same exact thing. You just can't overcome it.

>> This personal relational roadblocks uh

if you don't take you know a bulldozer

and build some fences, some boundaries, it's just impossible. >> I'm glad you said to everybody and I hope you heard Dave. He said, 'It's going to be painful. But here's what successful people do that Dave's talking about.

They choose their pain. So, it's going to be painful. Both of these phone calls illustrate that there was pain in making the right decision, but there was also more pain in not making the right decision. So, choose your pain.

And I'm I think that's what successful people do. They go, "This is this is not a win-win from an emotional standpoint." But when we take the emotion out of it and acknowledge that this is going to be dirty and nasty and ugly because of somebody else them being unhealthy, then it makes that painful decision a little easier to make. Choose your pain here is the lesson I'm taking from what you said. >> And I agree with you.

I mean, it it's proactive. Somebody's going to be pissed.

right? >> Piss off the right people. >> That's that's that's right. You know, like you're mad because I'm doing this with my kids. Well, I I'm I choose you're mad over my kids dysfunction and being in counseling when they're 30. So, I'm doing this with my kids. Screw it.

You know, you're okay. You'll make it or you won't make it. I I'll choose who will be mad. And like some of you send in hate mail or you post stupid butt stuff in the comments thing.

It's like it's not relevant. I've already chose who I'm g who I want. If if you're who's mad, I chose the right one. you know, that's perfect.

And so, versus the people that come around want help, need help, and we can help them and get get our arms around them and give them some information and some inspiration and they move forward. That's who that's who I want to spend my energy on in the business here and in what we do. But the same thing's true with your family. You're going to choose.

Okay. Who's going to be mad?

parents?

Cuz grandmother is a travel agent for guilt trips.

And so, uh, mom, we're not going to be able to spend Thanksgiving there this year.

>> Yeah.

Having a duck fit, as we call it.

>> Yeah. >> Not sure exactly what that's what a duck sounds like when they're having a fit, actually. So, >> I'd rather have a peaceful Thanksgiving at the cost of making the family upset than >> Yeah. >> making them happy and being miserable.

>> Cousin Eddie's doing heroin. Cousin Eddie's not invited to Thanksgiving.

Cousin Eddie's pissed. Oh, well, Cousin Eddie's pissed. The heroin addict cousin is pissed. I can deal with that. I can deal with that. I just set a boundary.

You're not coming. You're not blowing up my sewer. Looks like Christmas vacation, whatever it is, right? But you know, if if you got cousin Eddie and you have to piss off somebody, cousin Eddie's not having access to my children.

>> Okay. That was funny in the movie. It is not funny in real life. Okay.

>> And so you got to decide these things >> ahead of time. And the problem is you it

is painful. >> Yeah. because it's often times people who you wish uh would would be cheering

for you. >> Sure. >> Friends, family, whatever they are, but they're not. And it's like, okay, second grade teacher that said, "I'm never going to mount to anything, you don't get a vote." >> Actually, that happened, you know. And uh you know, third grade teacher who said, "You could be anything you want to be." Oh, you get a vote.

>> Yeah. >> And actually um had her here at the building a while back and honored her because we love teachers that don't mail it in. And so, um, you know, it's just Cali, folks. So, but it it's a I I what

I'm trying to point out is I don't think people realize how heavy the correlation is between your ability to manage relationships and set boundaries with relationships and whether or not you actually end up with any money. >> That's right.

Very few people build wealth until they learn to say no to the right people.

Till they learn to piss off the right people. Your brother who's managed your money for 40 years and did a bad job. Oh

well, you're pissed.

I can deal with that. Your sister who got her real estate license three weeks ago. No, you're not selling my house.

You don't even know how to spell house.

We're not doing it. Somebody else is selling my milliondoll house. Not a newbie. Well, I'm your sister. I know.

This is why we're not doing this. One of the other reasons we're not doing this. Well, I'm going to be mad. Well, good.

You're going to be mad, but I'm going to not screw up a million-dollar transaction cuz you don't know what the flip you're doing. This is stupid. But this is the kind of stuff you have to deal with all through your life. Right.

>> That's right. >> And if you don't deal with this stuff, you end up with a horrible life and no money and no pattern of success anywhere in any part of your life. >> That's right. >> So this these things are inextricably tied to each other. They're woven together. So it's why this stupid stuff ends up on this show. It starts sound like Jerry Springer sometimes. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Andrew is in Tennessee. Hey, Andrew. How are you >> doing? Pretty good. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I was calling to try to get some uh advice from you. Um, I'm thinking about

going back to college uh to get my

architectural degree and uh it's a

little late in life. I mean, I'm I'm 40 years old. Um, but I was going to see

what your thoughts on it were. Um, going

back to school that late in life. Um, if it's a wise decision or not.

>> Why?

>> Cuz it's expensive. >> No. No. Why? Why would you go be an architect at what what are you doing now

and what's your dream?

>> Um well before what I did before what I

do now um I was in the drafting and design business for 20 years almost

>> designing what were you designing houses or commercial or what?

>> Uh mill work and uh steel buildings um

you know different things like that.

So, what would the Here's the simpler here's the simpler question, okay?

>> What would this architecture degree allow you to do that you cannot do now?

And how much would you make versus what you make now?

>> Well, what I make now, it would just add on to what I make. Um, we own uh rental property. Um, and that's what I've done

for the last couple of years. Um, it makes pretty good money. Um, >> so what would you make? So, how much more would you make? Let's fast forward and assume you have the degree right now. How much more would it allow you to make annually because of the architecture degree?

>> Uh, probably 150,000. I mean, 15 wait.

Something's wrong. So, you're currently managing an entire portfolio of real estate and that's what you live off of.

Is that what you said?

>> Yeah. >> And and how much is all this real estate worth?

Um, we bring in about half a million a year. >> Yeah. And how much is all this real estate worth?

>> Uh,

we've had offers of like 4 million for

it a couple of times.

>> So, it's an it it's a like one apartment or something or what?

>> No, it's a it's a mobile home park.

There's 50 uh 50 54 homes.

>> Okay. So, you own and manage 54 mobile homes. You make a half million on them and the value is about 4 million.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. That's what I'm trying to >> No, we don't bring home we we we don't bring home. >> This has nothing to do with architecture whatsoever. So, if you quit managing this, how does it get managed?

>> I'm not going to uh I won't quit man.

>> Honey, you can't do two full-time jobs.

The idea of a full-time job is it's >> No, I No, we would still own it. I would just hire someone in. >> That's what I asked. Okay. All right.

So, you bring a manager in so that you could go be an architect.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And now, what do you want to build? What do you want to build as an architect? What do you want to draw?

>> Uh, hotels and houses.

>> Okay. And you hotels, it be helpful.

Houses. You don't need an architectural degree to draw houses.

>> I'm living in a house that's millions of dollars in value. It was drawn by a guy who doesn't have an architectural degree,

>> but it it has to be stamped by an architect, >> not houses.

>> Uh, in the state of Tennessee.

>> In the state of Tennessee. I just built one. Honey.

>> Oh, I thought you had to have a architect actually stamp off on the drawings to >> Not a house. >> What do you What do you pay yourself? I want to get to the cost. So, you said this is so expensive and should I spend the money? Let's go to what you pay yourself.

>> What do you pay yourself? >> Uh we make me and my wife together make about 100,000 a year.

>> Okay. And and what is the I'm looking at the cost of uh of instate schools in Tennessee. Um nobody cares where you got your architect degree from. Tennessee State, you know, you're looking at an average of $8,300 per year. That's not a whole lot of money. University of Tennessee, average tuition's 13. Now, that doesn't include all the fees, but as you're looking at this, how much money are you thinking you got to spend to get this degree?

>> The the school I'm I've currently

enrolled in and done a summer semester at um Academy of Art in um it's in

California. It's the only online architecture school. >> What's it setting you back per year?

What's the cost?

>> It's going to be $150,000 by the time I do all five years. That's not including interest. I think it's too much money.

Yeah, >> you don't need to spend that for that.

It's not a good value exchange.

>> You get a four-year degree in architecture from the state of Tennessee at University of Tennessee Knoxville for 13,000 a year.

>> That's for the whole year. >> For the year. Yeah. >> Not for a semester. >> That's for the year. >> For the year. So, this is not a good value exchange.

>> You're getting ripped.

>> Okay. So, two things. Two things. One is Yes. I Yes. I want you to go get in the

business of drawing things for other people. It's a passion that's inside your stomach. I love that. Okay, I want you to go do that. >> Uh the question, the two questions we have that we want you to solve for after you get off of here is one, what is the least expensive and fastest way I can get this get what I need to go do that?

And then question number two is, do you really need an architectural stamp >> to do what you want to do?

>> Well, if I'm going to draw like hotels or >> if you're going to draw commercial, if you're going to draw large commercial, you're going to need an architectural stamp. I can tell you that, >> right? Yeah. >> Okay. Um, but you're also competing with huge architectural firms for that same job, >> right? Well, the in my area that I live

in, there's actually not many architects in this area. There's like three.

>> But here's what I'd want to know. >> Then there's not many hotels being built, >> right? There's some evidence there.

>> There's what? >> There's evidence that there's only three. I'd find out why there's only three. In other words, does the market can it >> there's not not enough not enough economic activity to support more than that. >> Yeah. >> Well, if it I'm in Pigeon Forge.

>> Yeah. >> So, there's plenty of economic >> The point is is that people obviously are not using Pigeon Forge architects to build the stuff. They're using architects out of Nashville, out of Knoxville, and out of Atlanta and Chicago and whatever else, depending on which company is coming in to build the thing, >> right? >> Okay.

So, you know, what you've got to do is get in to figure out exactly a what is needed >> to do what you want to do. And I'm questioning whether you need an architectural stamp if you really want to go that far. If if it's necessary, if it is necessary, if the answer is yes, then figure out the least expensive way to do it. And if you're in Pigeon Forge, honey, go down to go down Knoxville and knock this thing out.

I mean, you're an hour away. >> Go down drive.

You're like a grown-up and stuff. You're not trying to play beer pong. You're just getting the degree.

>> Okay? So, just go knock it out as fast as you possibly can and um find out if

they have any kind of adult um learning for the architectural school. But the University of Tennessee's architectural school has got a great reputation by the way, just as a side note. But um and uh

I've used two or three architects on projects that graduated from there and they all were excellent in their knowledge base. So if you do need it, that's the way to do it. But online for 150 grand versus 50 grand.

And no, no, not doing that. Yeah.

especially given that you told Dave and I as we questioned what your process was that you were going to continue to you were going to hire someone to manage the uh the trailer park. So in this case now I can do a similar version of this and still manage to do school. You don't need an online school in California to the tune of 30 grand.

>> Go and put your manager in now and haul your little butt down to Knoxville. Yeah, >> that'll work. >> Yeah. But I I got to mention this to our to our greater audience. There's four qualifying questions that I wrote about in in from paycheck to purpose. When you're looking to get qualified, here's four questions you have to answer and it comes up with a very simple doable plan and it's not intimidating. First question is what do I need to learn?

This is is there a degree that I must have to do the thing I want to do. If not, there's cert there's certificate programs, there's boot camps. So, first question is what do I need to learn? Second question is what do I need to do?

What experience will I need to get to eventually do the thing I want to do?

That tells me where on the ladder I need to enter. Third question is um how much

is it going to cost? Get the best options. Get all the options. The fourth question is based on cost and what I got to learn and do. What's my expectation?

How long will it take to get where I want to go? Those four questions when you answer give you a clear path that is not scary to do. And that'll keep you from spending $250,000 on a master's degree in social work to make 38,000.

That's right.

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[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people, build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of Front Row Seat, a runaway hit on the Ramsay

networks. He's my co-host today.

Vincent's in Ohio or Idaho. What did I say? Idaho. Hey Vincent, what's up?

>> Hey, how we doing, guys? Hopefully your Monday is treating you well. >> It is sir. How can we help?

>> Um, the question I have is I just recently joined the Air National Guard and with that I get a $50,000 bonus. So,

my question is, what I I'm thinking of investing it, right? I don't want to blow it on a nice new car, you know, like a lot of people do. I don't I want to invest it and make my money work for me. What would you guys recommend me doing with it? >> Well, thank you, sir, for serving your country. >> I appreciate that. >> Oh, yeah, for sure. >> Okay. How old are you?

>> Uh, I am 22 and I just recently graduated from uh the university.

>> Okay. All right. And are you going to be full-time guard or is this just your >> uh No, I'll just be parttime. Yeah. And they have a $50,000 sign on now.

>> Yeah. Isn't that crazy? >> That's pretty incredible. That's awesomeness. >> I know it is. Yeah. >> Okay. So, um, cool. So, what's your career going to be?

>> Um, so my career, uh, it's kind of like a smaller one. It's called industrial organizational psychology. Basically, what I want to do is apply like statistics and stats to be able to go into like businesses and be able to improve them. Right. >> Okay. You just graduated school. You got the job?

>> Uh, no. I don't have a job yet since I'll be going out to like basic training and everything. So, right now I'm just kind of in like La La Land. I'll ship out in like a week or two and then when I come back, um I have to get a master's degree uh first. Well, I don't know if I have to, but >> Okay. Um Okay. So, if you come back and you get a job and you're sustainable, you won't need this 50,000 to live is my point.

>> Yeah, exactly. No, I'm not I'm not banking on the 50k. What?

>> That's all I was I was just trying to verify. We don't need it to eat. Okay.

And the uh you have any debt?

>> Uh zero debt. >> Cool. Good for you. What are you driving?

>> Uh I have in uh like a 2007 uh Camry.

It's treating me well. Decent mileage.

No complaints. >> Okay. All right. Um I'm I'm going to put

10 with that and upgrade your car.

I appreciate you not complaining, but your car sucks.

>> Okay. So, let's >> Well, I mean, I do want to I mean I I think uh I'll put a little bit towards my car, but I think I want like this is my idea and obviously you're the expert.

I want to put most of it into like an investment, right? Like a mutual fund. I >> I would love for you to do that, okay?

But I want you to create a sustainable lifestyle so you keep your freaking hands off of it. And if you're driving a 2007 and it blows a gasket 3 weeks after you do your investment, you're going to start cashing out the investment and do a stupid bad car deal.

>> Yeah. I mean, I I also have >> That's what I'm trying to keep you from doing. Okay. So, um >> Yeah.

No, that makes sense. >> So, I I I if I were you, I would invest 40 and I'd put 10 into a car if I woke up in your shoes and I'd put it into good growth stock mutual funds. Sit down with a smart vest pro in your area. You can find those at Ramsey Solutions.

They have the heart of a teacher.

teach you about mutual funds, how they work, what what the track records are, and they love the good ones. And they we

only let the good ones into our program.

We don't endorse the bad ones. Okay. But

the they love sitting with a young person because they know what power the power of compound interest and they know that 40. You said you're 22.

Yeah. 22. >> Yeah. So, when you're 29, that's 80.

When you're 36, it's 160.

When you are 43, it's 320 if you don't

touch it.

>> Yeah. Leave it in until I retire, right?

>> Yeah. It's going to be it's going to be millions of dollars at retirement if you just keep doing the formula I was just doing. Now, that's the trick. Now, you may want to use some of it someday to buy a house.

You may want to use some of it someday. That's okay. But let's learn. Let's start the learning process because you have the seeds of greatness in you because you're willing to ask at 22 years old about doing something smart instead of going and buying a brand new F-150 >> which you can't buy a wife 150 for 150 grand.

I'm sorry, my bad. But anyway, buying a stupid car.

master's degree because you were unsure.

That's okay. But let's figure out, do we actually need a master's degree to do the work that you want to do? If the answer is yes, how soon do we need it?

Are there le are there rungs on the ladder to that ultimate role that I can

climb without the master's degree? Think this thing through. Don't assume that I got to go get it now when you may not need to get it now. And also uh do your homework on where I can get it from the absolute cheapest because I I sing this note all the time. Nobody who is your

future customer is going to ask you where you got your master's degree. So make a smart decision there as well.

>> Let me help you. They're most of the time not even going to ask if you got a master's degree. >> Right. That's right. >> Only thing we got, 1100 people working here. The only thing we're concerned about is can you do the job? If the master's degree is an indication that you know something, that's good, >> but sometimes it's an indication you know nothing. So, um, you just weren't

smart enough to stop going to school.

So, uh, uh, you know, we need to get into why you need this and what it is and how it applies. And industrial organizational management, it does not require master's degree to be successful. It might to get in the door

with certain Fortune 500s, but to do the

actual job, the knowledge base is not needed. It's like a It's like an MBA, a masters in business. It's a great degree. There's nothing wrong with it, but you can do the job of business, running a business, understanding business, building business acumen without an MBA.

I don't have one, and I run a $300 million company, so it's very possible. It can be done. um got to have a couple brain cells to rub together and then you'll figure it out. But the uh this idea that somehow degrees are your deliverance is Ken's point.

and they and they are figuring out trying to figure out how student loan debt forgiveness works and it doesn't work. >> So, it's a problem to when people just

go get degrees that they don't need.

>> Yeah. >> Especially if you're borrowing money to do it, it makes it even worse. So, it it's a big issue. The the uh documentary

that was award-winning that we did a few years ago, you can now watch it free on YouTube, is called Borrowed Future. It gets into in detail, >> you know, what is needed. And we're not against a four-year degree.

>> We don't hate colleges and universities.

I hate what they charge because of some of the stupid butt stuff they build on campus. I hate that. But you know what I

hate what gets what I don't want is people believing lies that lead them down a trail. >> And the lie is you have to have a degree to do this and you don't. >> Exactly. Right. Yeah. And and the question is is a degree the only way or

is it the best way? That's a two-part question. And if the answer is no to either one, folks, listen. There's some great news here. >> A lot less money and a lot less time to get qualified. Yep. But you've been sold this bill of goods that the degree is always the grade A best option.

>> If my life is bad, the answer is go back to college. >> That's right. Like that's going to solve it. >> That's going to make your life worse.

Yeah. >> No.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

Heat. Heat.

[Music]

This show is sponsored by Better Help.

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[Music]

is with us in Phoenix. Hi Canoa. How are you >> doing? Good Dave. How about yourself?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey. So, me and my wife are currently on

baby step 3B, and we're trying to see

what our next step should be. So, right now, we're able to save about 40,000 a

year, give or take. And we're trying to decide, should we save for two years and

then buy with 20% down to avoid PMI at a

15-year fixed, or should we just keep renting for the next seven years and then just pay for a house outright in cash?

>> What's your household income?

>> About 150,000, give or take.

>> What do you all do?

>> Uh, I'm in sales and she's in um social

media marketing. >> Okay. So your seven years assumed your household income would be staying at 150. >> Yes. >> Which is not true cuz obviously you're going to your income is going to go up during seven years. Agreed.

>> I would hope so. Yeah. >> I I would hope so too. Otherwise, we got other problems. Yeah. So um so probably looking at five years.

>> So that How old are you guys?

>> Uh I am 24, she is 22.

>> Okay. So, when she's 27 years old, you pay cash for a house. And when you're 29 years old, you pay cash for a house. Or in two years, we put 20% down.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. That that's what we're laying out here. Um, so the answer is neither one of these are horrible options. None of these are in the stupid column.

None of these are in the I'm going to yell at you, don't do something stupid.

Please, please, please column. Okay.

Very smart choices that you proposed in both cases. And the answer is whichever one you would like to do. That's the answer because they're both smart. Now, let the and I will tell you this. I am

bound by a this is the only answer on

the Ramsey show that I give. That is not what I would do, okay? Because I do not borrow money ever

for anything ever again.

>> Period. No matter what. So, I would have

personally Sharon Ramsey, Dave Ramsey, we'd have one option, and that's the five-year plan. And we'd turn it into a four-year plan because we'd work like maniacs because we'd be so pissed we didn't have a house. But all that, right? I mean, we would just go crazy. But that that's what we do and what we have done throughout our lives since we went broke and decided that the borrower is really slave to the lender and we really don't borrow money anymore

now. So, I don't have a choice. That's that's what I but that's a decision that

I made based on my understanding of scripture and the pain that we went through when we borrowed money. It is the one thing on this show again that I don't tell pe that I don't tell people they have to do. Other than that, I I never borrow money for a car. I'll just yell at you.

Don't borrow money for a car. It's stupid. Okay? Ride a bicycle before you borrow money for a car. It's just dumb.

Okay? You want to be middle class, get a car payment. You'll be middle class the rest of your stupid life. Okay?

just don't do that. You know, there's some stuff like that that I'm just going to hold you to and hold me to and hold everybody to just because it falls in the smart column. The other one's in the dumb column. Now, buying a house and you outline the exact Ramsay way, 20% down, if you can do it, uh, is preferable because you avoid private mortgage insurance and on 15-year fix where the payments no more than fourth of your take-home pay.

You just recanted back to me exactly what we teach. So, it's obvious you've been studying it and and you knew that that was the answer I would give you. So, that's perfect. Um, if you do that, you are obviously borrowing money, which I can't do, but I still don't yell at people for doing that.

I don't think it's dumb. Um, is the other way better? Yeah. Yeah.

I think b never borrowing money again is better. It's why I chose to do it. But, um, but I'm not going to yell at you for being dumb and doing that because it's what we teach and what we've taught here for years.

comes up. the only time the debt comes up on this show in 30 years that we've said it's okay and and with these very

strict guidelines to where you turn around and get the house paid off as fast as possible.

>> Yeah. I I put myself back into their

shoes and if I had it to do all over again and we were smart with our first home. We didn't buy something that was too expensive. We went pretty modest.

But if I had it to do all over again and I could get the entire payment in five years, I'd absolutely rent. That's >> especially when you're in your early 20s. >> Yeah. Freedom that early in life financially, emotionally to have no house payment.

I would definitely take that choice. >> Keep in mind, folks, the social pressure to do otherwise is every >> massive. Everyone's get a house. Get a house.

Oh, you're renting. Oh, like like you're going to hell if you're a renter. You know, it's like it's a salvation issue. Oh my god.

It's just the It's Oh, you're horrible. You're dumb.

And these are all broke people making these noises. But, you know, >> Doug's in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Hi, Doug. What's up?

>> Hello there, Dave and Ken. How are you guys doing today? >> Great, man. How can we help?

>> That's great. I have a question regarding life insurance. I have a a term life insurance policy through the VGLI. It's a $50,000 payment or a

$50,000 benefit and I pay $300 annual on

it. I also have >> What is the VGLI?

>> The Veterans Group Life Insurance.

>> Oh, okay. Didn't recognize the initials.

Okay. All right. Thanks. >> That's okay. I also have a uh a whole

life policy. Now, I'm going to be 60 this year, and my mom got this policy for me when I was five years old, and she's been paying on it, and then I eventually took it over, and I've been paying on it ever since. It has a death benefit of $11,350.

It's >> like a family pet.

>> Yeah, exactly. No kidding. It's got $7,000 in total assets. Okay. With with

a taxable gain of about $3,300.

>> No. The question is, >> I doubt that. >> Should should Okay.

>> Who told you that? >> I call I call >> uh New York Life. I called them and asked them what the taxable gain was.

>> Out of $7,000 total assets, it's got 3,300 taxable gain, >> which means you guys have only put $4,000 in this in your entire life.

>> Basically, yes. I pay $129 a year for

that policy and it has $10,000 death

benefit. >> Okay. All right. So, if you take out seven if if they if you die, they're going to give your beneficiary $11,000 check. They're going to keep the $7,000.

>> Correct. >> So, you have $4,000 worth of insurance.

>> So, my question is, >> so you have $4,000 worth of insurance.

>> No, no, no, no, no. The actual death benefit is $11,000. >> I know, honey. But there's seven in there. That's your money. They're going to keep that.

>> So they're only giving you they're they're going they're going to give you your seven and $4,000 for 11.

>> Okay. >> 7 and four is 11.

>> Correct. Okay. >> So my question is I have about $20,000

in debt. Credit card and a personal loan

>> trucks paid for. Now that doesn't include my mortgage. >> Should I cash this out?

>> Yes. >> And pay off some of my debt?

>> Yes. For God's sakes. Yes.

Okay. Yeah, >> that's that that's what I was thinking also. So, I just I just wanted to hear what you thought about it. >> You have a savings account of $7,000 that when you die, they keep it.

>> Exactly. >> Oh, yeah. That somehow that doesn't work for me.

>> Okay. >> It's pretty It's that It is that simple.

>> And so, it it's that's how bad this product is. And New York Life talked this family into keeping this for 40

years like it's a family pet. And not only did

they not only did sweet little mama buy it and get screwed by New York Life, but on top of that, she handed

this piece of crap product, this turd

wrapped in a box to her son and said, "I passed this to my son.

as if it was the family bible or something. It's unbelievable

the emotions tied to this crap. Yes, cash it in, honey. As fast as you possibly can and run from that company as far as you can run a company that would do that. Oh my god. But this is this is why they have tall buildings and you live in small houses.

Think about it. In the old days, what was the skylines in a in the in the average city? The average skyline was banks and life insurance companies.

That was where all the money was. And who gave him that money? Santa Claus?

No.

Your mama, your daddy, your grandma when

she bought you that policy.

$11,000 at a time. We screwed America.

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I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls calls I have taken are from situations

that are completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost are stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800 356-4282 or go to xander.com.

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Do you know that seven out of 10

Americans die without a will.

That just that kind of fits cuz

78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. So people suck with money. So that just that just kind of solves that, right? I mean, it kind of fits, but it just blows your mind to think that seven out of 10 Americans die and let the state decide what happens to their kids.

If you have minor children and you both die and you don't have a will, the state

children's services decides, that's a dumb butt idea.

Do you not love your kids?

I mean, you don't even need money to need a will. You need, if you're 18, you need a will. Get your will.

Howard Hughes died with $2 and a half billion dollars in 1976.

Almost 10 years later, they settled his

estate. Didn't have a will. 600 people put in a claim.

He had cousins he didn't know he had.

Apparently, he had people that he loved that he didn't know he loved. Who knew? They came out of the woodwork, right? No will. So, everybody lined up like it was a lot ticket. 22 people ended up getting

some of the money almost 10 years later.

You know who got most of the money? De Laoyas.

Deoyas. Yeah. You know what the lawyers is? Yeah. Right. You know that's who got the So you need a will.

So the August is create a will month.

Who knew? Who cares? You need a will.

You need a will. And uh so here's what I want you to do. Take five minutes. Take a quick quiz at ramseysolutions.com/willquiz.

It's free. Click the link in the description if you're listening and we can help you figure out exactly what type of will. If you can do a quick easy one like with Mama Bear Legal Forms or if you've got a complicated estate and you need a lawyer, we'll we'll walk you through that. But either way, you need a will.

The people you love will hate you if you

die and make them untangle your mess.

They will want to dig you up and kill you again if you die without a will.

It's I mean it's such a dadgum disaster.

Don't do this. Jonathan's in Miami. Hi Jonathan. How are you?

>> How are you doing? >> Good. How can we help? >> I'm doing well.

>> Yeah. So, um just question. Um my fiance

and I were both in our 30s and we're coming up finally in our career and

we're both about $700,000 in debt together. Um and we're wondering you know after about say a year of saving and paying our loans um and 14 years of

training or realow to um kind of start

living our life finally like by getting a house and whatnot.

>> Wow.

So what in the world do you do for a living?

>> A world position actually.

>> I was hoping. Okay. So tell me this household income is huge.

Um yes it should be it will be huge now.

>> Um right now oh no right now we're both in between our training and are actually and starting our positions.

>> Oh okay. So you're just coming out of residency.

>> We're coming out of fellowship. Yes.

>> Out of fellowship. Okay. So when will you when will you get the big boy job?

>> Um we won't start till next month.

>> Okay. When you start what will the two of you be making here?

Um five uh both combined about 900.

>> Okay. All right. Um

>> pretend. >> Okay. Jonathan, I So you guys, you've

been in school your whole life.

>> I don't know anything else but a test.

>> And now you're going to make a million dollars a year as a return on that investment. Congratulations. That's amazing. I'm so proud of you.

>> Thank you so much. >> And you're the kind of doctor I want. One that actually knows what the flip they're doing. Thank you. That's pretty incredible. So, um, you're not going to

like my answer, but I will explain it to you, okay? As if it were a, um,

uh, as if the patient had a prognosis and we needed to give him a treatment plan. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> This patient, you and your wife, are a

couple of things I know about you, just based on your story. I'm 100% but sure both of you are very bright. dumb people

can't do what you all have done. Okay.

The other thing I know about you that you maybe have not admitted to yourselves, but I'm sure of is that you know how to delay pleasure for a greater

good. You can suffer long periods of

time for a an excellent result if you

believe the result is there. You have that emotional maturity, that spiritual ability that most people who can't make it to Friday.

You made it till 30.

Work and work and work and work for tomorrow. Work and work and work and work for tomorrow. Work and work and work and work for tomorrow. That's delaying pleasure. You following me here?

>> You have that muscle built beautifully.

And I'm going to try to beg you to use that muscle just at least one more time.

900,000 minus 600,000 is 300,000.

I'm going to ask you to live on 300,000 your first year and be debtree before you buy a house

and before you buy a new Beamer or two.

By the way,

No cars whatsoever. >> Well, there there's a thing called duck.

We we have observed in my world a thing we call docitis.

Docitis is you've been holding your breath through grad school, through med

school, through residency, through fellowship. And when you finally get the big job, you exhale and it looks like consumer purchases at the wazoo.

That's what it looks like. And that's docitis. You've been holding your breath so long to ring the bell to get the prize that when you finally get it, you do stupid on steroids for about 2 years and it takes people in my world about 10 years to clean up the mess you made for you even though you make really good money. So, I'm trying to get you to tap in.

You you have this in this unbelievable ability. Not only are you smart, but you have the ability to delay pleasure. That's an emotional maturity factor, and you've got the ability to do that.

and finish the mess you made clean it up and then you're going to be so stinking rich and be able to own any house and any car you want to own. You make a million dollars a year with no payments and no debt of any kind. You are you're going to have so much money and such a great life. And that's what you've been promising yourself while you went through all these sacrifices.

And I'm asking you to do it for one more year.

Live like you're in residency and fellowship for one more year and use all of this fabulous income. Clear the debt in one year.

Did I make a sale?

>> It makes total sense.

>> Okay. >> It's not easy. I don't It's not easy because you're you've been you've been waiting all this time.

>> You've been waiting to get here and now you're finally here and this goober on the podcast is telling you not to do this, right? I don't blame you. I mean, it's a it's a normal human emotion. But dude, you guys are you the both of you,

you're a power couple.

>> How stressful is this work going to be on a scale of 1 to 10? What you know about it? >> Your work. >> Your work. Um, it'll probably be 7 to 8

maybe. >> Okay. Now, I want you to think about the added stress if you do what most doctors do and they live high on the hog coming out of college and all this and grad school and the whole n00,000 >> and just imagine the stress of the job plus the stress of the debt if you make no headway. Just seriously sit with that over the next three days.

Do some research. Read stories about doctors that are just overwhelmed by debt. Get a picture of what Dave and I are talking about because we've seen it. >> Peace.

over money. You got a stressful enough of a job. >> Hey, 900k. How much signing bonus you getting?

>> My sign on is about 20. Not much.

>> Oh, okay. All right. Just a big income.

>> So they don't necessarily >> I'm just curious. Which specialization?

Um, I'm gastro. >> And what about her?

>> And she's pulmonology. So, I'm pretty sure she's the smarter one out of the two of us. >> I think both of you I think both of you gonna be okay, dude. >> I'm so proud of y'all. Well done. Y'all are amazing. Absolutely amazing.

>> Yeah. If you'll just slow down a half a notch and do this right, it's going to relieve stress, anxiety. You're going to be working with be able to work on the work rather than work on the checkbook.

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not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Andrew in Michigan. I own a small business which has grown to 10 employees plus my wife and myself. One of our growing pains has been our manager who has been with us for two years. At times he shines and is excellent and proactive. Other times he does random things like borrowing small amounts from the tips, hiding small checking errors, and lying about dumb mistakes. We've had numerous conversations about these lapses in judgment. Should we fire him or give him one more chance?

Um, you know, again, I don't have enough details here to say why I would give him one more chance. It feels like we've had numerous conversations. And so numerous

at this point, um, we've not seen any behavior change. And what's what's tough is is that this is somebody who carries a lot of water. sounds like he shines um

in a lot of areas, but in an area that

is a legitimate red flag where you've talked to him multiple times and it's not changing. Yeah, I don't think one more chance is necessary unless you have

not communicated that this is in fact now the last chance. We don't have this conversation ever again. Um this is a

tough decision emotionally at times but you have to separate the emotion from maybe your fears of what would happen if this person a high performer leaves. Uh but ultimately you got to do what is right and you've felt like this is a problem. You're right. This is a character issue and it will turn into something bigger if you don't get rid of it. Yeah. the

my I mean we we coach a lot of restaurant folks in our small business program entre leadership and I'm not a restaurant person but my understanding is most restaurants um with what you're talking about here at the end of the day the tips are some some people either put them in a pool or they are you know each each server keeps their own tips for the night.

he's stealing money from your other employees.

Uh, that's not something you need to give grace to. Um, there's not a single

person that works in that restaurant that thinks this guy's awesome.

He's stealing from them and they know it. They the servers are a lot of

things, but they carry heavy trays and they know where their tips went. I can tell you that. Okay? They work their butts off. Their feet hurt. Their back hurts when they go home. They want to know where their tips went. And my manager took my tips. What do you do?

You can't really go back and go, "Well, my manager took my tips. Who you going to confront?" Uh, yeah. Let me tell you, everyone in

the place is going to cheer when you fire this guy. He's stealing their tips.

It's not real hard for me to figure out.

So, I'm a little I'm not quite as easygoing as Ken is on this. Um, you don't have to be mean to him or anything, but when someone has steals from the tips, hides small checking

errors.

Is that code for embezzlement?

What is hides small checking errors mean really? Okay. Like he doesn't know how

to do this stuff and lying about dumb mistakes. Yeah. There. Yeah. I I think you have serious integrity issues with this individual and you've got him in leadership and so um and

>> you've had enough you've had enough conversations. >> I've had enough just reading this. He's gone. I'm I'd fire him right now. I mean I'd be nice about it, but we we give people warnings around here and we we'll talk to him, help him change behaviors and do things. There's a couple things we don't. Okay. Right. >> Um you know, one of them is you steal.

>> I don't really need to renovate. I mean, I don't need to spend time rehabbing a thief. I That's one I don't need to work on because I got to look over my shoulder all the time and I'm giving them my money to work here. So, no,

you're done. The day, you know, I just I just Well, I thought I would get put it back later. You know what? Yeah, you're just gone.

Okay. And the other one was, you know, we find you know, somebody accidentally left a bag of cocaine in the you know what? No, no, we don't have a second discussion about that. You're just, you know, to start with there's a bag of cocaine and then there's accidental.

Oh my god, these two things don't go together. You're gone. I mean, this is not we we don't have we don't have a big we don't need a drug test. We already got the drug.

It's okay. Get it. You're gone. And so it's just uh No, I mean that, you know, so we but that stuff doesn't happen here because of how stringent we are on hiring.

But that's the type of stuff that we would have a zero tolerance on. And because I don't need to discuss you if you if you don't have integrity.

can talk to you about that. Give you a chance to change your ways. You know, we can coach you along and coach you up and give you give you a chance to stay. The problem is, and you pointed this out, is when you have 10 people, you are at the stage um where we call it

the second stage of business. The first stage is is treadmill operator and the next stage is pathfinder. And so when you are at the Pathfinder stage, it's um

it's like hurting cats.

Got 10 people. They're running in 10 different directions. Everything's not aligned. There's a lot of chaos. A lot of it can be that all of them are working hard. I had 10 people one time.

I remember. I mean, it's like everybody's working hard, but they're running 10 different directions. There's not a lot of alignment, not a lot of good strong cultural values in place and that kind of thing. And you do have this sense of if I fire a key person and I

have 10 people, the whole place is going to shut down. Well, let me help you.

Andrew in Michigan. The whole place is not going to shut down. Instead, they're going to cheer for Andrew in Michigan.

They're going to go, "Andrew, Andrew,

Andrew." Cuz the guy that stole our tips, Andrew got rid of him. Andrew is

the man. I would chase the I would charge the gates of hell with a water pistol for Andrew because he had my back. The guy that stole my tips. He fired him. >> That's what's gonna happen. >> Yeah. >> You're not gonna cave. You're not going to fall in. You're going to be stronger.

And the longer you do this, the more sure you'll be footed you'll be in your decision making on these things. Um and you'll make fewer and fewer mistakes on who I keep and who I give this to. But don't keep somebody cuz you think this place isn't going to run because of them. Dude, he was never the secret sauce in the first place. You are the secret sauce. That's why you have a successful concern, but now you have to have a backbone and be a leader and fire a thief.

Yeah, you've enabled it by just using the language borrowing. I thought that was interesting. He's borrowing tips.

Here's what we know. If he's borrowing or stealing from his co-workers, it's only a matter of time before he borrows or steals from you, if he hasn't already. >> 100% chance. >> So, that that's the thing. >> Yeah. 100% chance his wife doesn't trust him. All right, Payton is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hey, Payton. What's up?

>> Hi, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, I kind of have a little bit of a math problem for you. So, just a little bit background about me. I'm a chemical engineer. So, like I'm trying to figure out the best way that this makes sense to do. So, I currently have gone from a job that was paying me $80,000 a year to a job that's paying me 104 a year.

Awesome. plus com plus plus plus plus commission. So I can get up to 40 to 60

grand of commission at the end of the year if I perform well in this job.

>> Okay. >> And so my problem is is that I'm working

on your debt snowball method. So I'm in baby step number two. Um I cut down my

>> I'm a little short on time. Go straight to your question, honey. >> Yeah. So, this straight to the question point is that um I'm going from a company that had a company car to not a car that you can get into this program.

But the problem is is that the car to be

qualified for the program is um has to be a new car to four years in age under 50,000 miles and has to be a hybrid to qualify for the program. >> I'll pass. >> But they'll re Okay.

>> It's not it's not a raise. the amount of money they're going to give you will not cover the loss in value >> because you're driving an expensive car into the dirt because you're putting a lot of miles on it. You're doing sales calls.

>> Okay? >> So, you're going to put you're going to put so many miles on the car, you're going to you're going to take a 40 or $50,000 car and you're going to make it worth 10 every year.

And you cannot absorb that with the amount of money that they're offering you. That's why they don't do company cars. They trick you into taking the bite. It's a pay cut. It's not an it's not a benefit. Don't take it. Just drive whatever you want to drive and forget it and drive something cheap because you're ruining whatever you drive.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual amazing Amazing Relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of the show

that is a runaway hit on Ramsay Networks. It's called Front Row Seat, where he does long form interviews with highly successful and famous people to get the success principles from them that help you live a better life. You'll love it. Chuck is with us in Pittsburgh.

Hey, Chuck. Welcome to the show. How can we help?

>> Thanks Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

Hey, uh been following the baby steps for a decade and thank you so much. It's It's been so good for my family. It's helped our marriage. It's just made putting three kids through college um a

lot simpler. >> Well, way to go. >> My question was >> Oh, thank you. My question is for Ken.

Ken, what what are the the baby steps for somebody that's looking to move out

of a a 32-year career into something that he can do into his twilight?

Uh get clear is the first step. Second step is get qualified. Third step is get connected. Fourth is get started. Then we get promoted and ultimately into what we think is the dream job on in this new path. So that's the quick answer. Do you know what you want to move into or are you trying to figure that out?

>> That that's what I'm trying to figure out. >> Okay. Well, we've got a tool for you that'll make this a little easier uh on the phone. I'm going to give you the uh book Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

It's the get clear career assessment.

And there's three wires that every human has. Talent is one wire. That's simply what you're really good at doing. And that's you're born with that. And then through education and experience, we hone that ball of clay of talent into

sharpened skills or useful things like a bowl or or a cup. So talent is what we want to start with and that gives us the clues as to where we can go. The next

two wires, one is passion, and that just means what work do I love to do? I look forward to it. When I'm in the middle of it, I lose track of time. And then the third wire is all about motivation. And

that's we call it mission. In other words, what results do I want my work to

create? What do I want to contribute to the world? So, it looks like this in a simple sentence. If I use what I do best to do what I love to produce results that matter to me, I am in fact on purpose and I'm doing meaningful work and the money is going to be the best possible option because of those factors. So, you know, I'll put you on

the spot. I'm going to give you that assessment and and you take about 18 minutes. It's going to really read your mail. It'll make specific suggestions to you. But I want to boil the world of work down into four buckets.

people work, idea work, process work,

and object work. Object work would be something where I'm working with my hands. Maybe I'm a carpenter, maybe I'm a plumber. And so in the world of work, where do you think your greatest talent is knowing what you know about yourself being 56? Where what area of work?

People work, idea work, process work, or object work?

>> Definitely people work. That's been my whole whole life. >> Okay, great. So, if you allow yourself

to wonder, and I know you have, and I'm putting you on the spot, not for you to be locked into this, but if you could go a direction tomorrow and you knew you couldn't fail, and we just tried it for 90 days, what would you try tomorrow?

>> Well, I've got a face for radio, Ken, so I'd have to say, uh, I I did some radio

years and year, well, 30 years ago at KDK in Pittsburgh long time ago. and uh

but couldn't make it into a career and but I kind of miss it you know. >> Okay. So you would be communicating if we take radio out you would be doing some type of work that's heavy communication and that involves people.

Correct.

>> Correct. >> And you like the pressure of communicating that doesn't freak you out. You kind of enjoy it. A little bit of butterfly but you really enjoy it.

>> Love the deadlines. You know, hey we're we're starting in 321. You know that kind of thing. >> All right. So let me let me ask you this. What do you make right now? What have you been doing and what do you make?

>> Well, I've been in sales for 32 years and uh been blessed to be in over six,

you know, six digits. >> Okay, great. Now, this is >> 100 to 150 depending on the market.

>> Okay, so here's what I know about you.

So, you're very good communicator because you've been very successful in sales and a good salesperson knows how to truly communicate. Not just talk, but read people, listen for what's below the So, you've got a lot of experience here.

Now, I'm going to be very honest with you. Radio is not an industry where there's a ton of opportunity because of the nature of podcasting and YouTube and and the the cultures listening habits.

There's just not a whole lot of radio opportunity. So, then you go, okay, what is it that I love about the radio piece?

And and it's I like communicating something that I believe will help people. Is that a fair highlevel statement?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay, great. So, as you begin to take the assessment, you get your results, you're going to start to ideulate. And here's three questions that you will answer. And if you got something to write with, write them down. If not, go back and listen to this. Three very simple questions that'll bring you an idea or two or five. Who are the people I most want to help?

What problem or desire do they have?

And then what solutions plural

to the problem or desire that I just outlined do I most get excited about?

What you're going to find if you wrestle with that day in and day out, your mind and heart will start to come together and you'll begin to throw things out.

And so you are going to communicate.

It's people work. We know it's people, people, people. Uh there might be a little bit of idea work involved here.

Um, and so if you can begin to figure out who are those people I want to help at this stage of my life a and what prom or desire is is jumping out at me and then how does the marketplace address that with my skill set? And so that's the exercise for you in the days ahead.

But the assessment that we're going to give you is is going to give you a very detailed report. I want you to read it and I want you to then answer those three questions. And what you're going to find is you'll see multiple opportunities that you never saw before.

But you got to be able to understand what it is that I'm looking for.

>> And I want you to pan back further than

just the two things, sales and radio.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Those were those were very nuanced

possible uses of everything Ken's talking about. And there's a lot of different ways >> to do what you're doing. Um, and I I'll

just the, you know, I'll give you an example of that. I was being interviewed the other day by a trade publication in the broadcast world and they said how has Ramsay u prospered and survived

um you know satellite radio the internet coming on with podcasts now used to be streaming in the old days and um and now

with the advent of you know the power of YouTube as our shows and what I said was

and what I want you to think this way is we are platform agnostic we don't care Mhm.

>> where what medium or media this message

goes out on. If it goes out on Instagram or Tic Tac or anything, we don't care.

Um it's fine. We're fine with any of it.

Okay? But um if I said instead, I'm a

talk radio guy.

I'm not doing podcast and I'm not going to be on YouTube. That's for cats chasing lasers and tic tacs owned by the communists. I'm not doing that. If I said that, which I'm kind of tempted to at times, okay, if I said that and I I held myself to being only a talk radio guy, I would have 8 million listeners a week instead of 40.

So, that would be stupid, narrow-minded

of me to focus on one thing. Instead, I'm saying, how many different ways in a

huge buffet can we apply the delivery of

this message? In your case, their message is your talent. How can I How can I put myself out there? How many different ways can I put myself out there? Be platform agnostic. Hang on, we're going to send you a copy of both books. One that has the clear path, that's paycheck to purpose, and the uh assessment as well.

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Buying or selling a home these days with all the drama is a big deal and the clickbait headlines, all the garbage that's out there on social media and all the broke friends that have an opinion about you buying a house. Let me help you with the drama. How you cut through drama? Facts.

When drama or trauma is occurring, facts are your friends. Facts will talk you off the ledge. Facts will take you and put you in a cold shower and get you over a buying fever. Facts will tell you this is what I need to do and this is smart thing to do. Facts are facts and you need some facts in the middle of all this. So what we've done is we built out a full website called the US housing market trends and you can jump on there

any day and see what exactly is happening with the real estate world.

And uh like for instance, the 15-year fixed rate is still steady at 5.95,

just under 6%. That's a fact.

Hadn't moved in a while, by the way.

That is also a fact. The median house

price is still 441,000 in America today. It has gone up a little bit every month. The inventory right now is a,82 a,82,520 homes on the market that today.

And uh that's the highest inventory rate since 2019.

However, demand is higher than it has been. And so that is why house prices have not dropped. High interest rates, high inventory would normally mean you'd see house prices come down. Has not happened because demand is higher than inventory. When demand is higher than supply, economics tells us prices go up.

When more people want a Beanie Baby there are Beanie Babies, the price of Beanie Babies go up. That's how it works. Okay. Um, some of you are old enough to get the reference, some of you weren't born yet, but there we go. So, anyway, that that's the thing. Go to ramseolutions.commarket and we'll catch you up to date. Andrew is with us in New York. Hi, Andrew.

Welcome to the show. How can we help?

>> Hi Dave and Ken. It's uh really cool to talk to you guys. I've been a big fan for years. >> Well, thank you. What's up?

Uh so uh I have a situation that I've

been discussing with my dad and my sister and I thought it might be something you'd uh have some suggestions on. Um my dad set up a college savings

account, 529 accounts for my twins who were born in 2010. These were his first

grandchildren and he was working at the time so he was able to fund the accounts for a few years. They've grown to a total of about $100,000, half of which he estimates he contributed.

>> Wow. >> He stopped he stopped working shortly after that and was unable to start additional counts later when I had additional children and my sister had a child. He hadn't really thought about them since. Um but now a question of

fairness has arisen at least between my sister and me. He only recently learned from an elder care attorney that accounts like this can be shared or split among other children. And he's now wondering if he should draw from his

limited retirement savings to start an

account for my sister's child or portion off some of the savings from the twins accounts. Uh, I know that it's his money to do with as he pleases and I'd want my

nephew to receive something as well, but my >> So, how much does your dad have in retirement?

>> Uh, I I don't know exactly how much he

has, but you know, he has enough that he's >> Well, I mean, what 300,000? 5 million.

What's he got in there? >> No, I think something like uh three or 400,000. >> Okay, cool. And is is he is your mom gone?

Uh, they are separated. They're separate. Divorced. >> Divorced. Okay. All right. And he is now retired. What how old is he?

>> He's 77. >> Okay. What's he seeing an elder care return elder care attorney about?

>> Uh, he was looking into protecting the

house in case something happened to him and he needed to go into uh care or

something. >> Okay. That's a waste of money, by the way.

>> Okay. >> I can help you with that. we could use that money to fund the fund the kids college. >> Um, >> okay. >> So, I'm not against some elder care situations, but here's the situation.

>> There's only two kinds of nursing homes.

Ones you pay for are ones you go into when you're on welfare.

Welfare is Medicaid.

It's for poor people. Your dad's not poor people.

Okay. >> Okay. He needs to quit trying to hide assets using an elder care attorney so he can go on welfare.

You don't want him and he doesn't want to be in a welfare Medicaid nursing home. Not if I got 300 grand in the bank. That ain't where I'm staying.

Okay. >> Okay. >> You know, if I got 300 grand in the bank, I don't want to live in subsidized housing. Okay.

>> Okay. >> You catching on my drift here? That's what he's That's where this guy's leading him, and he doesn't need to be leading him this way. It's a bad plan.

his house is not protected. It's protected only if he goes on welfare.

And so don't don't don't try to design a life so that you can go on welfare after working your whole life and you got 300k. That does inter it's a sidebar,

but it's not because that that leaves you then in a situation so that these kids How old is your uh your sister's kid?

>> He's seven.

>> Okay. So, he's got time for money to

grow. And my twins are 15.

>> So, your dad's 300K is invested.

>> Yes. >> And um here's what I would do if I were

your dad. Okay. I'm 64, 65 almost. Okay.

Here's what I would do if I were him. If he li doesn't live until these kids go to college, 10 years. Okay. If he if he lives to 87,

we'll do something different. But if he doesn't live, leave enough specifically in the will for the three kids, yours and Oh, there's only two kids. Your your one kid didn't get money and your sister's one kid didn't get money, right?

>> I have two additional.

>> Okay. So, leave enough in the will for your two that were not the twins that have zero. The sister's kid who doesn't have anything that has zero to play catchup and leave the twins out of that portion of the will.

>> So, make it right upon death.

and then split up whatever's left between you and your sister. Okay? But he can make it right upon death. In the meantime, he's got 300K growing and it'll be 600K if he leaves it alone in

seven more years and it's in good mutual funds. Okay. So, it'll be plenty of money to send these kids to school.

That's if he dies before they go to school. How old are your two that we're

talking about >> that don't have money? Younger >> that don't have money? >> Uh, they're 13 and seven.

13.

>> Yes. 13 and seven.

>> Okay. So, seven years. If he doesn't die, if he dies anytime the next seven years, 13-year-old gets made whole and

the seven-year-old gets made whole. The twins are obviously older than 13. And then your sister's seven-year-old gets made whole upon death. That's what I would do if I were him in my will. Then,

if he doesn't die when they get ready to

go to college, I'm just going to write checks.

M okay. >> Simple. I don't have to fund a 529. I'll

just write checks out of my wealth until

I equal and do a little math and you figure out you know what it what is equal at that point. But we've got at least five years, four years, 5 years before yours is in school and you know up to 10 before the other two are in school. And then he's going to be writing some checks out of his then half million or whatever. And you know if he

puts in some similar amount plus growth

cuz he got the growth. Okay, if he gives you 25K today instead of 10 years from now, he's going to get all the growth on the 25. So he could let's call that 50. Okay. So he could put in 50 for a future kid and it'd be the same as 25 was back then.

You follow me? >> Mhm. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. So, just have his financial planner, not his elder lawyer, do the calculation and and just run that out and go, "Okay, if I'm alive, >> I'm going to take care of the 13-year-old to this equation cuz that equals 25K." >> Mhm. >> Back then. >> Okay. Um, and how old are the twins, by the way? >> They're 15. >> Okay. All right. So, and then they get nothing. and they've already got theirs in either scenario.

>> Unless he wants to leave the overage above college to the kids and not to you and your sister, but otherwise the twins don't get anymore. They've already gotten theirs and so just lay it all out like that and that'll be fine. Ken, I'm glad you had input on that. >> Well, I was going to say, Dave, there you had several holes there that I was going to fill and then you just tied it all up there at the end. So, I don't have anything to add.

>> Sorry about that.

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in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Michael and Rosalie are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. >> Wonderful. Welcome. Where do you guys live? >> Buffalo, New York. >> Oh, cool. Welcome to Nashville.

>> Thank you. >> And how much debt have you two paid off?

>> About 70,000. >> Awesome. And how long did that take you?

>> Uh, just over 5 years. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that time? >> Uh, 100 to 150.

>> Okay. All right. And what kind of debt was the 70? Well, to borrow your phrase, the paid off for mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as our status symbol of choice. >> Got a paid for house, baby. I love it.

Congratulations. Well done. Very well done. What do you all do for a living?

>> So, Rosley was an interior design and now has the hardest of jobs, a stay-at-home mom and I'm in financial analysis and a side business as a financial coach. And a special thank you to your your team, an unbelievably talented team of Ramsey coaches you have. >> Oh, well, thank you. Thank you. We appreciate you being here. Very cool.

How's it feel, guys, to have the house paid off. >> Feels really good. >> I bet. >> I bet. That's amazing. So, what a goal.

And five years. You So, you you got everything else paid off and then you work just the slow plan. Works four, five, and six like you're supposed to.

Yep. >> And paid off the house gradually. How old are you? >> I'm 36. >> 44. >> And a paid for house. What's the house worth? >> About We bought it for about 200. It's worth about 300 now. >> All right. Very cool. Good for you guys.

And how much have you guys built up in your nest eggs and your retirement and so forth? >> Uh, we'd rather not say, but in the last 5 years since we've worked the plan between investing more and the market growth, it's over doubled in that five years. >> All right. Well, very good. Good. So, it smells like maybe your baby steps millionaires already. I'm proud of you.

I'm just going to go with that. I'm going to pretend like I know that. Okay.

Way to go, y'all. I'm proud of you at 36 and 44 years old. So, give us your perspective on why after getting out of debt and walking through the baby steps, you went, "All right, yeah, let's go ahead and and let's keep on going. Let's keep being disciplined and let's pay the house off." Why? For somebody who's wondering, what's the reason for that?

What is your why? >> Yeah. So, we entered marriage completely debtree. We had debt before marriage, but we entered it debtree. Um, but you I

stumbled across the Ramsay show uh back in 2020 and started watching YouTube highlights and watching the show. And so Dave, I'm a >> Start driving Rosalie crazy >> probably. Yes. Um I I have an accounting degree and a CPA license.

So of course when it comes to personal finance before finding your show, I knew almost nothing. >> Yeah. >> So I my parents did teach me to live on less than you make. So I followed that and married well because Rosley lived on less than she made also.

Uh but quickly from watching your show realized there are a lot of blind spots and a lot of things we're missing. We were not saving 15% for retirement. We were tracking our expenses instead of budgeting. And there's a huge difference between those two.

our daughter Lily was on the way. We didn't have a will. We didn't have life insurance. So there were just a lot of blind spots we were missing. So we had a good foundation. But finding your show developed an actual process that we could follow. >> Yeah. And when you check all those boxes, the weird thing is the result is peace. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. You can just relax. House is paid for. We've got retirement. Got a will.

We've got uh you know, we've got life insurance. We're we're you know we're rocking. You got you got the system down. You get in the groove and there's a chance that you can just let you can just breathe then and and it really is financial peace. Two words that don't go together like airline service, you know.

It's like pretty cool guys. I'm so proud of y'all. >> Thank you. >> What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

>> Well, so it's it's working together.

It's communicating. It's the budget.

It's um being intentional. All of those things are are very very critical. I know for us with having kids, that's our main motivation is our kids, our generational wealth, um setting them up for life. >> Yeah. >> Um that's our huge driver. So, I mean for us with kids, that's what we focus.

>> It's your why. Yeah. It's it's your why.

It's your driver. Yeah. >> You got to have that. And because the other stuff is too weird to do if you don't have a real reason.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. We decided to attack steps five and six. Obviously doing step four, too, but five and six aggressively to get them both done.

So, we frontloaded their 529 accounts. So, um, before they even got into kindergarten, they're they're all set with their 529s that what grows should cover at least a public university and then they can decide from there if they're going to work or get scholarships for anything beyond that. But they'll they'll get that by uh not taking on any college debt. So, that was our goal that we can get them to have no debt other than a mortgage for their entire lives that this this is going to be their last recollection of debt is being on the debtree stage here.

>> Almost eight years this October.

>> Okay. And you started on the house 5 years ago. So it sounds like you started very early in the marriage on this whole thing. >> Yeah, we bought the house right as we got married. So we it was a total of under eight years that we paid the house off. It was it was 5 years since we got Yeah. got very serious on the Ramsey plan. >> Yeah. So Rosalie, when you first met

Michael or when he first started talking about all this stuff, did he drive you crazy with it?

>> I'm used to it because this is kind of his background. He's into finances and this is, you know, this is his passion >> and um you know, this is kind of his wheelhouse. So, this wasn't anything new for me. And um I wasn't surprised when he found you and brought all this up and wanted to, you know, go on this plan and attack it.

I was right with him cuz like I said, the kids and everything. I know I drive him crazy because with being in a tier design background, I'm always looking at stuff around the house. So, that drives him crazy. So, we always have to communicate about >> That's fair.

That's fair. >> Things that, you know, I might want to do to the house or um you know, what's going on.

So, I wasn't surprised. And now you now you can. >> Now you can do whatever you want to. >> Well, don't tell him that.

>> Well, maybe maybe maybe I need to. I don't know. What does live and give like no one else look like for you guys going forward? Have you began to dream and discuss what that could look like?

>> 100%. And honestly, on the car ride over uh down here, we were definitely talking about how we can now uh give and um how

we can be more generous with um our giving and to our church and things like that. That's definitely been a conversation more and more and more now that um we don't have the mortgage hanging over our head.

>> Yeah. What's the um big nice thing you're going to do for yourselves?

>> Um I don't know. We don't have an answer to that one. >> I think you know >> live like no one else or later you can live like no one else. Yeah. >> I don't know if we have an answer to that one. You know we're still trying to get our cars through two more winters.

So and there are 13 and 11. So we're >> I think you need some cars. Yeah. Time to get some cars. Don't have any house payment. Don't have any debt. Yeah, just, you know, now you can breathe a little, y'all. I mean, it's it's good to do that. And um and and that won't be wasteful and that won't be irresponsible or anything else. And so it's it's actually why you did all of this, that and those two beautiful kiddos. So very, very cool. All right, bring them up.

Let's meet them and names and ages. Come on up, kiddos. >> Do do we have time for a quick story? >> Sure.

>> So very appropriate, Ken, that you're on the show today. So I I called you five years ago debating whether I should take financial coach master training as our our daughter was on the way and I you know I asked you I said is this a good thing to do and you kept saying ask your wife and I said well everybody's done that I'm calling the expert but right before we got off the call you gave me two words you said do something and those two words were huge and they're huge for everybody in finances in faith in fitness whatever it might be um and then on the way here we stopped at a rest stop in Kentucky and I saw a US Army veteran uh on his uh jacket and I said to Thank you for your service and these are the true heroes.

And his response was, you're worth it. And so I just want to combine those two thoughts today. Do something because you're worth it and because your family's worth it. So combine those two thoughts for all your listeners today.

I think that's a really important message to hear. >> Amen. Amen. Thanks for stuff.

kiddos names and ages again.

>> James is six and Lillian is four.

>> All right, guys. You look like you've been practicing a debtree scream. I think you're ready. All right, Michael and Roselie, James and Lillian, 70,000

paid off in 5 years. House and everything making 1 to 150. Count it

down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1

They are into it.

>> Yeah, >> those kids are completely changed. Their lives are changed before they were born and they didn't even know it. Pretty incredible. This is what happens when you change your family tree. And at 36 and 44, you put yourself in a position of baby steps millionaire. You've got your house paid off, everything. And you make it 100 and a half. And you can do anything you want to then the rest of your life. You've got you've got the uh the thumb of society off of your neck.

You don't have City Bank

anywhere in your vocabulary. Oh god, that's good to be of. Yeah. You don't have American excess anywhere in your vocabulary. That's good to be rid of.

Wow. Way to go, guys. What great What a great power couple. Excellent.

[Music]

Heat. [Music]

Hey, Heat.

Our

[Music] scripture of the day, Job 22:21. Submit to God and be at peace with him. In this

way, prosperity will come to you.

In other words, that is prosperity.

Peace, the peace that passes understanding.

Winston Churchill said, "For a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." Yeah. And u another famous

English leader, Margaret Thatcher said, "Socialism is fine until you run out of other people's money." >> Yeah, agreed. Yeah, that's that's a problem.

Math thing. It's a math thing. Reggie's in Cleveland, Ohio. Hey, Reggie. What's up?

Hey Dave, Ken, pleasure talking to you guys. >> You too. How can we help? >> I actually uh I came across your course about 13 years ago in high school and I was lucky enough to take it and I've been an avid listener uh listener ever since. So, thank you. >> It's been quite life-changing. >> Thank you. >> Of course. Um so, kind of my dilemma is

is I own two bakeries and I co-own one

of them and one of them had to close uh

briefly here due to the lack of employees. and the other one is quite successful and in you know 2027 we're forecasting a

million plus. Um, so my question is, is

given my full-time employment and other

businesses I have on the side,

and is it a smart idea to try to pump a little more money into that other bakery just to make some rudimentary upgrades, changes, you know, new stuff, uh, just to kind of try to revive that and gain back the trust in the community?

>> So, a couple questions here before we dive in. is the one that's struggling that you had to temporarily shut down. Is that the one you co-own or the one that you're the sole owner?

>> Uh soul owner. >> Okay. And you you said to us that the

problem you identified was not being able to get employees. And so then you presented another solution. So what what what is the big problem?

Well, the problem is was the lack. It's

an underdeveloped area and it's being developed as we speak in terms of about a thousand houses within four square miles. So, it took me about 8 months to

really turn >> underdeveloped. You mean it was a bad neighborhood that's coming back.

>> Uh, rural. It's rural.

>> Oh, it's rural. >> I'm sorry. >> Okay. No, you're I just didn't understand. It's my fault. Okay.

>> All right. So, it's a it's a it's way out of town, but it but town has come to it.

>> Correct. >> It's kind of the the city is creeping out there to it.

>> Correct. >> And can you hold on long enough for the city to get there?

>> Well, that's uh that's my concern because I would be paying like I'm paying now currently out of my uh uh

career salary, you know, to keep everything open and getting the rent paid and stuff to that effect.

>> Mhm. All right. So you said you're tempor so you temporarily shut it down.

My question then is can you keep it shut down until the market gets to the point

that it needs to. In other words, can you ramp it back up at a later date?

>> I I can't I really have a bad feeling about borrowing money. I'm 100% >> I wasn't asking. No, >> that wasn't a part of the scenario. Yeah. He just said if you don't reopen it, what are your costs and can you maintain those easier than you can maintain feeding it? >> Yeah.

>> Um I would not be able to long term. So

about a year. >> So what is the profit on the million dollar back home at the other bakery on the million dollars on it? What's your net profit?

>> So on the million dollars that we're forecasting in next year profit will be about $ 250.

>> Okay. Which is split two ways. And you have a full-time job on top of this.

That is correct. >> And you make quad at your full-time job.

>> So, I am a pipe apprentice and this is

my last year. So, right now I'm sitting at about 70. >> And you'll go to what after you finish up? >> It'll go what?

>> It'll it'll go to about 95.

>> Okay. All right. >> And that's without any overtime or anything. >> And does your does your wife work outside the home, sir?

>> I am not married. >> You're not married? Okay, that's easy. Okay. All right. So, let's just reverse engineer the other bakery that you singularly own. The point is you got to

the party early and there's no people.

That's what you told me, right? You you you built out on the edge of a growth ring and um you thought it was going to

happen faster or that the current people there were going to be able to support you and they're not able to. It doesn't there's not enough population currently to support the business. I think you said >> Mhm. Well, there is, but the problem is is it's not going to be supported staff-wise. I mean, I have people that pop up here and there, but I think my core demographic of people that I'm waiting on is still up and coming >> to work as workers, not as customers.

>> Well, work. >> If you had it fully staffed, would it If you had it fully staffed, would it be profitable?

>> Uh, yes, sir.

>> Okay. So staffing is your problem, not renovation.

>> Correct. I'm saying, >> so no, I'm not going to spend money renovating it until I get it staffed.

Why wouldn't you just spend all of your effort staffing it or close it? One of the two.

>> Correct. Yes, sir. It is um between the

population that's growing and the actual

uh bathing problem itself, it does cost a arm and a leg to do that. I mean, I I've sustained it short term, but the only problem is is to really be in the

green. One, population would need to increase the customer base. It would be >> You've talked yourself into closing it.

Every sentence you've said has told me that. >> And I think that's obvious. There's not a simple solution to your staffing problem. >> But you're done. You Every sentence you bring up is negative about closing it.

You've lost hope that it's going to work. So, it's done. You need to close it. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> And you know more about it than I do.

And but every what you don't even realize it, but you're tell you're telegraphing everything in every sentence you're using is all about how it can't be done. It can't be done. I'm too early. There's this problem, that problem. And you know, you've given up hope that the problems can be solved in time before you go broke doing it. And um so I I wouldn't want the stress. I just close it. Have you got a lease?

>> It is a lease. Yes. And it uh that runs

out in January. >> Oh, praise God. Okay. So you own all the equipment?

Yes, sir. >> Debtree.

>> Debtree. >> Great. Put it in the garage.

>> So, all you got all you got is a lease till January and you're out of business.

That's awesomeness. And next time you get ready to start now, you'll be wiser when you open your next one someday.

You'll know that the staffing as well as the customer base has to be there before you can open it. And it has to be a the location cannot be a risk. The location has to be a no-brainer. You took a risk location on a business that is um that

location is everything.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Anything in food service world, location, location, and location.

>> I was a little early to the party.

>> Yeah, you were. You got there before the people did. Yeah.

>> So, I'm sorry, man. So, hopefully you haven't lost a lot. Um I've learned a lot. So, the ru and the here's what I did. What Ken and I both were doing listening to you. Um, we use Henry

Cloud's book, and Henry's a friend, but we've been using this book for a long, long time, called Necessary Endings.

When you lose hope with all logic and

sound wisdom that something is going to get better, it needs to end.

And that is a relationship, it's a job,

it's a marriage, it's a business, it's a what? An

investment. When you lose hope that it's going to get better, then it requires a painful and emotional necessary ending.

>> Yeah. And Reggie, in this case, really,

really proud of you for doing this debt-free. Uh I love that you've been working on a trade. You've been apprenticing. You're about ready to see tremendous increase financially. You're making money in the other one. So, you learned a lesson here. This is one of those our dear friend John Maxwell wrote a book years ago called Failing Forward.

Then he retitled it, "Sometimes you win, sometimes you >> learn." And most people say lose. And in this case, I want to encourage you.

>> Uh, you learned here. You didn't lose.

Uh, you learned something. You're going to come out of this thing without being in big-time financial trouble. Chalk this up to great experience. I learned a lot here, but man, I've set myself up beautifully for the future.

So, I applaud you for being debtree and being really smart here. Even though you made a mistake here, this is not something to be ashamed of. Yeah. It was an experiment.

>> That's right. >> Yeah. It's a It's not a failure. It's an experiment.

>> Yeah. >> And the way you learn from experiments is you fail and you form a new hypothesis.

Game on. Welcome to business. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat.

Heat. [Applause] [Music]

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## 128. Quiet The Chaos And Solve For Peace | January 16, 2026


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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common [music] sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union [music] studio, this is the Ramsey show. Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225.

Breaking news, folks. It's rare that I ever get to do breaking news and I love breaking news. We're going to get to the calls, but I got to tell you, I was just informed not very long ago, just a couple of hours ago that I'm sitting next to not just the fabulous Jade Warshaw, as I am want to introduce you,

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. but the best-selling author, Jade

Warshaw. The new book, What No One Tells You About Money, a national bestseller.

We're talking about an unbelievable out of the gate performance. We're talking about all books out there, and she's at the top of the list. Congratulations, my friend. >> Thank you, my friend. I appreciate that.

>> Just the the beginning of this book and its impact is being celebrated today, but I wanted to say congratulations. I know you, the audience, are very happy.

For those of you that supported this amazing message that's going to actually help you, thank you. Yes. So, you ready to roll? I was hoping you had like a >> roast or some a a drink or something, a bourbon or something.

I don't I have a I have a Well, there's a lady in the lobby and in her What is that, lemonade? >> [laughter] >> It's Minute Maid lemonade. Sure. I will take an honorary swig of it.

>> Oh, yes, we will. Let's go to Megan who's joining us in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

Hi, guys. I um I'm going through some

changes. You know, my income is drastically Well, my family's income is drastically changing. What's happened?

Um basically, my spouse is going away

for some time. You know, we're unsure of that timeline, maybe 2 to 10 years. None of that's finalized, but I'm trying to get, you know, ahead basically with >> Going Going away for some time, I just don't want to assume anything, but I think you mean >> He's going to jail.

Yes. Oh. Yes, unfortunately. I I don't

want to get into >> Sure. That's fine. Totally get it. Just wanted to make sure we understood what you're dealing with. Tell us again the timeline.

Maybe two, maybe up to 10 years. And And

when And when? >> When? Um well, he's in um the jail right now.

And but you know, it's He just got was arrested last week. So, it's very early.

Um so, we're just I'm just trying to get ahead so I don't get behind. [laughter] Yeah, tell us >> Really. Okay. Tell us what the financial impact will be as relates to losing his salary.

So, um you know, he owns a lawn care landscaping business. You know, he We also have three rental homes that bring in income and he's the handyman for those and for those rentals.

>> Okay. Um so, he's usually brings in, you know, between 10 and 15,000 dollars a month. Okay.

What about you? Do you work at all? I I work full-time and I bring in um about 4,000 a month after, you know, taxes and insurance. Okay. Are there children?

We have two children, yes. 11 and 17.

The 17-year-old's in her senior year right now. They both go to private school. >> Crazy question.

Yeah. Is the lawn care landscaping business Is it thriving?

He does good on it. Like, yeah, he can

He can do good at it. Yeah. >> I another So, here's where I'm going here and I'm not I don't want to get too in the weeds here, but cuz all of this is coming at you like a tornado.

Um I know you have a lot going on, but if I'm sitting in your shoes, I'm trying to figure out with him

how you can keep that business going.

Does he have people that work for him or is he doing all the work?

He does a majority of the work. He has,

you know, all the equipment and things that I'm so not involved with.

>> understand that. Um I've never really, you know, wanted to be involved. You know, I wanted to keep our jobs separate, you know, as a married couple.

>> Um so, you know, not to mix that. And yes, his Yes, I would I'd be >> that I could carry on with that, but he right now he has one employee cuz it's the winter. So, you know, not a lot of things are going on during the winter, but yes, he does the majority of the work. I'd be wondering if there's a secondary person you could bring on to take his place. >> yeah. And the deal is you're getting the

benefit of having basically my book of business.

Um and so, we're splitting the profits in some way. And so, instead of losing out on 15,000 dollars a month, maybe you're only missing out on five or six thousand dollars a month. Do you see what I'm saying? And so, essentially, there's a either maybe a 50/50 split or something there.

Um that's what I'd be looking to do because you would not want this to go down the drain simply because, >> you know, And I And And And again, I don't want to stay locked in on this, but this is actually relevant to why you called. If I'm you and And Jade gave you one option, bringing somebody in as kind of a quasi, feels like a partner is what you were suggesting. I'm suggesting you talk to your husband, and this is like legal pad simple, right?

these lawns versus who does the accounting?" I would get a brain dump from him and and talk to him as though this is possible cuz I think it's possible. And I would go the route of trying first to just get a body, a guy

who needs a good paying job, who likes outdoor work, could be even a young sharp Mhm. uh high school kid who's graduating, he doesn't want to go to college, wants to go in this field. You got to tell you what, here's my situation. I need somebody that I can count on, and here's what you're going to do.

I'm going to pay you really well, and you're going to learn this business for yourself. Now, in what you would have to do is is step in and make sure that if your husband was doing the accounting, that maybe you hire a bookkeeper. But again, we're talking about a very small expense >> Mhm. to take maybe what he has been doing that's not in the field and running the business side of it and see if you can replace it.

I think it's worth kicking the tires. I think it's worth a really detailed conversation with your husband to see if we can keep this thing going.

that's a pretty healthy little business.

And my gosh, uh I think it's worth trying.

Okay. Okay. Um yeah, I mean, I would

definitely could um put out some ads for

maybe a new worker. Um I can get with the guy that's working for him right now and definitely Yeah, maybe we'll do that. >> support system in like community, whether it be church or neighbors or family?

Um I have a I have a few close ones,

yeah. And they're And they're standing with you. They're not uh deserting you in this crazy thing you're doing.

>> As far as right now, no, nobody's deserting me. Yeah. >> start. I wouldn't do ads right away. I I think you need people who are going, "Hey, I am I totally am with you. I see where you are. Uh I understand what's going on, and we're going to rally to try to help you with this plan." Okay. We want to try to keep this income going. But Jade, let's transition to worst-case scenario

if all of this income goes away. Well, the first thing we need to see is like how secure of a position are you in? I mean, do you guys have a bunch of debt?

Do you have Tell us more about your kind of month-to-month situation.

So, yeah, the only debt that we have um

so, our personal home um our mortgage is

about 4,000 a month.

>> Mhm. Um we owe about 260 left on that.

>> Mhm. Um one of the rental The other one rental house is um mortgaged and we owe about 140 on that

one. >> You know, I'd be looking to simplify this if I were you. If you I want you to go home. I want you to write out all of your debts, consumer debt, and then I want you to consider it might be worth it to offload one of these mortgages, take the equity and pay off all of your consumer debt cuz you want [music] your expenses as low as possible going in, especially with the changes coming possibly [music] to his income.

Hang on the line.

>> [music]

>> You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies

and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet.

I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance. It's usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company.

This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about.

So, you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them, and you can, too.

Visit zander.com for instant online quotes, or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> All right, let's go to Kay, who's joining us in Salt Lake City. Kay, how can we help today?

Hi. Um thank you for your help. So, I have a 19-year-old at home. Um he's he's

working, and um his hours have been reduced recently, but um I feel like his

his finances have become my problem. So, a few months ago, he had a paid-off car,

everything was great, no debt. And next thing you know, he goes and trades that vehicle in for a a 2018 BMW.

Um insurance, of course, is now being deducted from my account because I was trying to help him.

Um so, he the plan was for him to give me that money every month. Um that didn't happen

all the way through this last week. He only gave me a portion of it. Um one of the parts on his car went out, so of course, I came in trying to help him and paid for the part, which was not cheap,

and um and kind of a few things um of that sort with the vehicle. Um he wasn't able to pay the registration the first couple of months, so it just kind of been piling up, and um I'm just

trying to figure out how do I put my foot down? Where do I draw the line? And I'm at the point where I I've I've come

to the point to ask him to move out to his dad's house um because I feel like

there's always something with that where I'm coming in to save him, and But that's Hold on a second. I'm going to jump in. I'm going to jump in. I I've heard you say, "Of course." Uh-huh.

twice Uh-huh. when you described that you swooped in and tried to help.

And now, you're saying, "I'm at the point where I want to send him to his father's." And I'm going to tell you something.

This isn't this kid's fault. And sending him to live with his father isn't going to solve the problem. And I'm on your team, Kay, but the problem is you. Yeah, you're you're acting like this is just happening to you. You asked us, "How do I put my foot down?" And here's my answer. Put it down. Stomp it.

>> You've actually never put your foot down. It's like hovering all the time, and he knows it, by the way. I'd park the car um if it were me, and um

I I just think you have to stop. Like, you're so worried about something. So, there's fear underneath why you won't put your foot down. So, the technical answer to how do you put your foot down is is determine what is this thing you're so afraid of happening and keeps you from putting your foot down. That's the simple answer. So, what is it?

Um well, is [clears throat] I I'm trying to not have him make the same mistakes I did when I was younger, and you know, screw up his credit score, and and there's just so many But >> things of like getting into so much debt >> Did you learn anything from those big mistakes? I did. There you go. Wait a second. Wait, tell me. How is it that you learn from those big mistakes?

Well, I was I was on the side of him not getting this loan. I was advising him to save his money. >> No, you didn't answer my question. >> What Ken is asking you is the mistakes that you made, what did you learn from them? When you were his age, what did you learn?

Well, I I don't know how to answer that. >> Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Here's what we're getting at. What we're getting at is mistakes are necessary. That's how we

learn. You learn by touching a hot stove. Oh, don't touch that. You learn by trying to you know, do the things that you're not supposed to do, and then you learn what you should do. That's the process. That is the process of maturing. You cannot keep your son If you seek to keep your son from making mistakes, you are robbing him from the opportunity to learn. Period.

Yeah, and I agree, and that's why I'm I want to I'm I want to put my foot down.

I just don't know how far is too far is You're not even close to too far.

You're not even close.

Well, I Yeah, you know what, though? I actually think that you threatening or going through with sending him to his father's is too far.

Cuz I'm going to tell you, and again, I'm not picking on you.

Hold on. Hold on. >> That's not even That's not even I got I got to say this, though. >> far. Her You're punishing him for something he didn't do. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. Her sen- you sending him to the father's house, that's not you putting your foot down. That's you copping out.

So, that's why I said you're not even close because >> this is something you must deal with.

And if you send him to the father's to the father's house, I sound like a sermon here. If you send him over to his father's house, that's you ducking out and going, "I don't want to deal with this. I'm just going to take myself out of the picture." And we are suggesting that you stay fully in the picture and deal with your portion of this issue.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I guess Sorry. Um um what I'm trying to explain is I'm sending him over because so I I'm helping him as best as I can, but I give him advice, and he doesn't take it.

>> not. You're not helping him.

You're actually hurting him. And you're hurting him by bubble wrapping him. Mhm.

This kid's bouncing around because he knows there's no jagged edges. There's no chance he gets financially bruised cuz mom is always there. And I will tell

you, you will hurt this kid's spirit if you send him to his father's >> Mhm. for something he didn't do. I think the best thing you can do for him is to confess to him today. I have been so

soft. Here's why. I'm afraid of this and

this and this, and because of my fear, I

did what every parent and every person

who's a fearful person does. We try to control. And Kay, I'm talking to you as a man who's guilty.

If I lined up all three of my kids, I got a 17, 18, 20, and I've confessed this to them where I have done this.

So, I'm being real real with you right now. I was so controlling for a season in my life, I created more strife in my house because of my fear,

and my fear made me controlling, and my controlling created unnecessary tension.

Okay. And in your situation, and I want Jade to check me on this, what we're hearing is in your attempt to allay your fears, and I'll bet you there's more fears you haven't even identified, but I appreciate you sharing one with us.

You are actually harming him.

You called us today to say, "How do I do it?" This is a massive self-awareness moment for you, and then a massive confession to your son.

And in the confession, you say, "So, I cannot in good conscience allow you to do this anymore." So, as your mom,

here's how this changes. This car, I'm taking your keys, and it gets parked until this happens, this happens, this I'm just telling you. That's what I would do. But first, with a confession.

So, that he realizes, "Oh, mom is actually trying to help me." He may not like it, by the way, but it's far better than you going, "I'm washing my hands." I don't know if you know the story in the Bible where Pontius Pilate the crowd wants to crucify Jesus, and he goes, "All right." And he literally washes his hands and says, "You take over." I think that's what you're doing if you send him to his dad's house.

Okay.

>> [sighs] >> I I see your point. Um I

you know, I'm just trying to navigate through this and see It's going to suck.

where where do I stop helping him, and you know, Now, stop. Yeah. Stop bailing him out on any of the car expenses. I think you swapping your mindset on this.

Right now, you're viewing it as a him problem and a him thing that I need to stop and a him problem I need to solve and a him thing that I need to keep from happening. This is This actually doesn't

have much to do with him. It has way more to do with you. This really is, to Ken's point, a you problem and a you self-awareness moment. I like that Ken said that. And I think by way of you

figuring that out, it will solve the

whatever him problem it that that exists. Because think about it. He's really just doing what a kid his age is going to do, which is see what the boundaries are, see if what he can get away with, see if mom and dad That's what he's wired to do at this age.

>> Jade, isn't even close to fully developed. >> Yes. To your point. >> Yeah, you guys so I I mean, yeah, I'm not going to I'm not going to beat a dead horse on this, but I agree with Ken 100%.

But listen, Kay, we want to encourage you, okay?

We shot you straight, but I want to encourage you. You're not a bad mom.

So, don't beat yourself up over this.

But literally, just say, "Hey, buddy, I blew it." It's going to freak him out, possibly.

Probably going to make him a little mad.

That's all right. You got to stop it now. And then you'll find that one of these days, you'll you'll really look back and go, "I don't regret that I did this." So, hang in there. Get your chin up, mom. This parenting stuff is hard.

You have a phenomenal heart. You are a great lady, okay? So, we're not beating

you up, but little tough love here just from experience from my side of things and I've been [music] there. You can do this.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, let's go to Amanda who's joining us in Los Angeles, California.

Amanda, how are you?

Hi, how are you? >> Good. How can we help?

Okay, um basically I am 46.

Um I've always been a creative person, so I've never had a 9-5.

Um I'm in a pretty substantial amount of personal debt.

Um I'm just wondering like I'm ready to like get my financial life together. I just never had it together, so I really have no idea where to start.

>> Well, you know what?

You're in the right place. You're in the right place. You started by calling us today. This is exciting. >> Yeah, I I love creatives. I'm a creative, so I I'm excited to learn what you do creatively.

>> Yeah. Yeah, well I'm a singer-songwriter.

Um just a musician.

How are you paying the What What is your source of income right now?

Right now I'm a nanny. Okay, and what are you making?

Uh 30 an hour. Okay, after taxes. Okay.

>> hours are you working?

30. Okay, so you're still kind of in the part-time realm.

Um >> Why? Why are we only working 30?

Well, in the beginning it was a little bit more, but then the parents are

working through a divorce and now just

because they their time is split, like my time is is a little bit less just because the parents want to spend more time with the kids. Um and so I have been trying to get

additional I'm with a nanny agency. I've been trying to get additional jobs, but those are those are kind of as they come, so they're not regular.

And I'm also looking into some side hustles, but it's not happening like right now. But right now I have like 11 cents. Like

11 You have 11 cents in your account?

Yes. That's fantastically bad. But it I

must say it's hilarious how detailed that is. You're like, she's at 11 cents, Jade. Well, I just checked it. First

off, [laughter] let me let me validate

that and say I've been there. So, I've never been that low. >> Oh, I've been there. I've been there and below. Okay, uh paint a picture for us.

What kind of debt you got?

Okay, um personal loans, my best friend

um has been helping me out for the last few years just whenever she can.

Um and so I want I'm not taking any more

money from her, but I want to start paying her back. Um and then

I have about $2,000 in school debt. My

car is paid off.

Um and I'm working on paying back some back rent because I was out of work a lot last year, which which is why there's some stuff that I have to catch up on. >> is your rent? >> Um Uh 800 a month. Okay, so

I'm not hearing I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not hearing uh the details that should add up to 11

cents in your account. So, something else is going on here because you don't have any car debt. Your rent is in a good spot for somebody who makes $3,600 a month nannying 30 hours a week plus whatever little bit of money that you're bringing in from whatever gigs you're doing. Be real with us and tell us where the problem is because this is either

>> Again, I'm I'm I'm very like I have a lot of money anxiety. I don't know how to hold on to it. But what are you spending it on?

Oh, well right now I'm giving almost my entire check to catch up on rent. So, my my check after taxes is about 770.

And I give at least 400 of that to

my my roommate every week to catch up on rent. So, that's leaving me $300.

>> How much do you owe in back rent total?

Um I By my calculations, if I keep up at this pace, I'll be done by March. No, no, no, that's not what I asked. I said how much total do you owe in back rent?

Total total I owe another $4,000.

>> And tell me, this is where I'm trying to get the realness. Tell me why you were out of work for so long that you didn't pay rent for of quite some time.

Well, I was paying like partial, but I was out of work just because uh you know, I was working like part-time and less so because I >> Uh this is totally about a year. I've also been working through a lot of depression. I've had two parents die in the last few years. >> Okay, now we're getting somewhere. I'm Yeah, I'm trying to make a Well, I don't I don't want to make excuses.

Like I know that I did a you know >> that's it's Those aren't excuses. Um

when we're talking, we have to talk in

full reality. Otherwise, we'll talk around the issues. And what you've Once I pushed you to get real, you told us some very important things, which is you lost two parents in a very short period of time. And it makes sense. I'm not saying that it's a wonderful idea, but it's 100% normal for people to kind of

uh it's like being in the dark and you're just rooting around trying to find the light switch. And a lot of people run up debt during that time. A lot of people are it's they fall into a depression during that time. That makes total sense. And now Ken and I can go, "Okay, now we understand why you were behind rent. Now we understand why you weren't working for a year. Now it makes sense." And do you feel that like you've

started to come out of that fog of depression?

Yes, I'm I'm I have therapy. I have

help. I've I've been really working hard on it. So, that's why I really want to get a hold of this. Good for you. Good.

Well, here's the great news, Amanda. You're not You're not in this mountain of debt. I mean, that's what Jade's getting at. We're not hearing some where it's like your life is going to suck for the next 3 years and never see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working in one like we say it to some people.

You've heard us do that. So, the good news is you've not done a ton of damage. That's the good news. Um and I I hate to be so simplistic, but sometimes, you know, when we're depressed and we're down and I love that you're getting help and you're getting the tools.

Okay. It's one of the best things you can do and here's why. And I'm no therapist, but but and you can talk to your therapist about this, but I'm going to tell you something. There is a psychological benefit to doing hard things.

Yeah. Because you've been through some hard times.

Yeah. But doing hard things is such a

wonderful wonderful elixir for the soul.

Yeah. And you know, when you're working really hard, it's hard to be down.

Because you're you're so dadgum busy.

And then when you're working really hard and you have $1,100 in the bank instead of 11 cents, then you Now your spine gets a little taller. You tracking with me, Amanda?

True, yes. What do I do once I get the $1,100? >> I'm going to I'm going to let Jade take All right, you're in good hands. Jade's going to coach you. >> Yeah, so you told me I'm just going to repeat back what you told me. You told me you had $2,000 in student loan debt.

You told me you have $4,000 in back rent. Is there anything else that we need to add to the list?

Oh, the personal loan is about $30,000.

>> $30,000 in personal loan. That's the big one. That's okay. We didn't catch that one. >> So, what we're going to do Can you tell me the payment for the personal loan? What do you pay every month for that? I haven't started paying it yet.

>> When does it start?

I mean, it's my friend lent me money

over a period of time and I haven't taken any money from her, but now I'd like to start paying her back. So, there are no terms. >> So, your friend lent you the 30,000.

Okay. So here's what I would do. I would

start by focusing on this back rent and that's what we would tell anybody if they're behind on their rent mortgage, you got to do that first. That's your that's that's your livelihood. You need that. So the $4,000, I would go ham on

that. It sounds like you've got $3,600 a month and after the 800, after your little dinky student loan payment cuz it can't be that much on a $2,000, you know, loan. [clears throat] You should have so much money at your disposal. Right? Okay.

Do you? Okay.

I I don't feel like it right now. I mean, I'm paying I I just feel like every check I have about $90 for gas cuz

I commute to work and that's it because I'm giving all my money. So I But you So here's what we need. Here's what we need is a we need a budget because right now, just given the numbers that you've told me, you should have lots of money to put towards this.

So what I want you to do, we're going to give you every dollar Christian who picked up before is going to pick up again. You're going to get every dollar and you're going to put every bit of money that you've earned into that budget. And really what I want you to do is go back and look at your bank statement for last month and look at see how much did I get paid, where did the money go and do an audit on that because I think you have more money than you think and it's being spent in ways that you're not realizing because from what I hear, you've got a pretty basic life financially and there should be lots of margin going towards paying back this back rent.

So that's going to be first on your on your list and then we're going to head into the student loans.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, folks, you know this, but I got to say it. We need to be reminded of it. Buying or selling a home is a massive deal.

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And you can do that at ramseysolutions.com /agent. ramseysolutions.com /agent or because James Childers, our fearless leader, does such a good job with the show notes, you can just go to the show notes. I call it a cornucopia of goodness. Do you know what that means? >> A cornucopia? I do know what a what a cornucopia is. >> say that properly? >> I think that it was an extreme

way to say it, but I'll go with you.

>> [laughter] >> A cornucopia is just full and overflowing of all kinds of goodness.

That's the show notes. >> That's true. Anything we say, if we have a link, I just want to make make it clear, the show notes. [laughter] Just just go right on over there. >> I'm here for a cornucopia. Add it to the >> people will forget about the show notes today. It's a cornucopia of goodness.

>> Thank you very much. Brittany is joining us now right here in our backyard of Nashville. Brittany, how can we help?

Okay, so I think I'm calling in today to

maybe get permission to do something with our money. >> Well, it's your lucky day cuz I'm in a permission giving or denying mode.

>> I'm feeling pretty good, Brittany, so We have approximately $2 million in cash. Um That doesn't suck.

No, but making decisions does actually

suck pretty >> Where'd the cash come from?

So personal savings plus um

some investments that we cashed out. We have been sitting on some cryptocurrency Oh. that we actually planned to use for

this purpose, for building a new home.

Um so now we are getting into the

nitty-gritty. It's coming in at about 1.2 to 1.4 to build this home.

Great. >> And so yeah. Great.

Um so this would be our forever home. Um

It's at the school that we want our children to attend that they already attend. Um it will get >> you, Brittany? What's bothering you?

I It's a big number

and I think we're dealing with a little bit of imposter syndrome here, I think.

>> Understood. When we got married, we had nothing. Um and in fact, as soon as we got married, I got laid off from my job about 4 months later.

Um we have three children.

We own our own business.

Once we have this house, we will have the house, we will not have any additional debt. We'll still have a successful business.

But again, I think we're dealing with some imposter syndrome here or maybe maybe not. Once we build the house and we take care of our tax liability for this year, after taking out 1 year of living expenses, um well, I say living expenses. Once we take out what we pay ourselves in a year, >> Uh-huh. um which is about $120,000, we would have about $330,000

left to reinvest. Why are you taking um

I have a question. Why are you taking taking a year's salary out of that? Is that for an emergency fund or >> Yes, because you never know we do own our own business. Understood.

Okay. >> happened to my husband, you know, >> I get it. I just wanted to be clear on that. >> got to jump in. Um I permission granted. Are you asking for permission to actually pay cash for this dream house?

Yes. Yes, permission granted. I feel so powerful. Uh no, but can I address something? I don't think you guys are

suffering from imposter syndrome. First of all, imposter syndrome is a fancy way of saying doubt. Would you agree with me, Brittany?

I really don't know. I I'm not sure if we we deserve this, you know. That's my point. You So imposter syndrome is I

doubt that I belong. I doubt that we But

you actually are dealing with shame.

There's some level of shame, not because you did something. Many times people hear shame and they go, oh, no, no, no.

I think it's because what you guys come from. You said it. We come from nothing.

I think you said something to that effect. Is that right? Yes. Okay, great.

That's what it is.

You guys aren't suffering from imposter syndrome. You're suffering from fear.

You actually are afraid that if you spend this kind of money, all this huge money, which two two million dollars is a lot of money. If we spend it, um we're going to somehow screw up and that's not the safe thing or the smart thing to do. And I would actually tell you that this is absolutely incredibly smart. This is a huge real estate investment that you could get the money back.

You know it and I know it. There's zero risk on this. I mean, in the real I mean, we're talking about, you know, the world coming to an end, sure. But outside of that, you guys this is not a risk.

And And I'm just curious. I want to walk you through a super fast exercise.

Um >> [clears throat] [snorts] >> About

3 years. We started with small investments. Great. And we've been sitting on this cryptocurrency for about 2 years. Okay, great. And then the next question is how long has the business been alive and well?

Uh 13 years. 13 years.

We're still imposter syndrome here. You guys didn't just fall off of a potato truck and into this. I mean, you guys worked at it. You took some calculated risk and it paid off for you. So um I I hope I'm just

trying to get inside your head to say um this is fear, not doubt.

You guys are afraid that if you spend this money, it's somehow wasteful because you come from so little. Did I just hear yes? Yes, that's exactly Yeah.

I know. I've talked to so many people like you. Um it's just so unbelievable

based on where you guys came from. As opposed to flip that to wow, how blessed

are we? How grateful should we be? This

is awesome as opposed to this is crazy

that we're going to cut a check for that. Jade, I want you to come in on this cuz I know you have perspective on this and emotions around money. What are you hearing? You hearing anything different? I 100% agree when you first

started talking Brittany I thought man, this is exactly what I talk about in the book when I talk about fear of success and fear of failure and they tend to coexist and it's just that feeling of man, if I what if I blow it?

What if I have this great thing and I blow it? People are going to be able to and it's broadcast for everybody to see cuz it's my home. It's all of that. So I agree with Ken wholeheartedly and I'll tell you what came to my head. My pastor used to say all the time if you got it and it's good, it's from God. And just be so grateful. It doesn't have to do with whatever you deserve cuz nobody who who deserves, right? Like come on. Let's be honest. And so if you have it, think

of it as something that you're supposed to steward well and look after and be just such a good um take such great care with and I believe that you're going to do it. The fact that you're here on you called us in and you called in and you're in tears about this. You're going to manage this well. You're going to look after this like Ken said, you're not new to the game.

You guys have been working for a long time. You understand the value of a dollar. You understand hard work.

to enjoy this home that you have gotten

as a wonderful blessing because of your hard work and effort.

Jade and I will come by and dedicate it.

Uh she'll sing. I'll say a few words.

It'll be great. Yeah, we'll we'll cheers. Don't forget about us. Don't forget about [laughter] us little people Brittany. You know here's here's here's the key on this Brittany when you get it cuz this is this is going to come back up. So that's why you heard both of us kind of go into mindset stuff for you cuz this is going to pop back up. This little this little demon's going to pop back on the shoulder. Here's here's the thing you got to remember. Forget all the raw raw we just did.

You guys are going to be paying cash for a dream home and you still have a full year you're going to set aside of your expenses plus a very healthy company.

You're not broke. You're not spending every nickel in your life. We didn't even ask you what your retirement portfolio is and everything else. This is a very dedicated expense that is the best expense one could have which is a dream home that you pay cash for and you still got some left over. So when the demon pops up on the shoulder say shut up. We got plenty.

And enjoy this and bless people with it.

>> Yeah, >> [music] >> and keep talking keep talking to people like Ken and I who will celebrate with you. That's what you need. You don't want to be around people who make you feel like you got to shrink back.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds [music] Credit Union studio alongside the newly minted best-selling

author of what no one tells you about money, the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I am

just Ken. Thank you my friend. You're never just Ken. >> Isn't that a song in the Barbie movie?

I'm just Ken or something like that. I could be wrong. >> It's bothering me that you've seen the Barbie movie and I have not. >> I haven't. My daughter has.

>> Oh, okay. >> Told me about it. And how do you know? Oh. Cuz there's lots of songs around Ken. The famous just asking for a friend. >> [laughter] >> My friend saw the Barbie movie. Okay.

This is a true story. No chance. I paid for my daughter to go with her friends but no chance I was going to try to sleep through that cuz I would have slept through that.

Do you know what I mean? I can't watch any like kids movies or anything that's not interesting. >> say so Ken. >> 20 minutes in You're out.

>> catching flies. That's what happens when I try to watch Star Wars. Out out like like a light. Hey. >> All right, we have to spend more time off air on that statement. I don't know what's wrong with you. Okay.

I'm going to let that one pass. Flush.

Mike is up in Jacksonville, Florida.

Mike, how can we help?

Hey, um well, um my dad uh committed suicide a few years ago. Oh my gosh. >> Um and um he uh

when that happened I flew there and and handled everything and and my grandma um

decided that she would take what would have been my father's inheritance and give it to us kids, his portion of it.

Um she asked me if it should be me and

my siblings or just me um since she

doesn't have a relationship with them.

And I said just put me for now.

Um my there's a bit more nuance than that but my concern is what what do I do? I feel like they are entitled to something. Um but every time they get any type of

lump sum or they make any type of advancement in their life, they do things to sink themselves even further.

They both have kids and I'm I'm scared that if they just get a lump sum, they're it's going to do a

lot more harm than good. >> Okay, let's can we rewind a bit? Yeah, my my my first well first off, I'm so sorry so so very sorry for your loss.

But the first question Ken that I have is is grandma still with us or

has she passed? Okay. Not yet but she is

I've been in contact with my my family and she's she's closing in on that time

and it's becoming more and more of a reality. And how much money are we talking about?

Um it depends on exactly how long she remains um but it could be anywhere from 100 to about 120k total. And was she the

sole beneficiary of your dad's will?

Um so my dad didn't have anything.

So when my dad died, there was nothing anywhere. Um he we were just left with debt. So no one got anything from my dad. But I thought that's how you started off the call. Forgive me. No, this is Sorry. It's her inheritance?

It's what she wants to leave that she was going to leave to their dad but now that he's >> I apologize. I thought I was listening.

I was trying to listen. I apologize.

Okay. So so grandmother

has it been written in the will that you're the only beneficiary or are we still chatting about this to write it down?

It is just well so it's just it's me and then my my dad's [clears throat] siblings, my aunts and uncles and there's there's four of them and then me in the first place. So this is already split five ways. >> The 120. No, the 120 would be my portion.

Understood. Okay, so after the aunts and uncles, there's 120,000 and you're deciding do I split this with my siblings? How many siblings do you have?

Two. Okay, so there's three of you guys and your other two siblings you're like hey, they can't have a lump sum of money. They'll do this this and that. Are we talking about I'm trying to understand the level of immaturity. Are we talking about they'll do drugs and drink it and gamble it away or are we talking about hey, you know, they have a car payment.

I don't believe in car payments. Tell me tell me what level we're talking about.

So uh my my middle brother um he has

five kids total, only has custody of

one. His wife has five kids, has custody of two, one of them being shared between the two of them. They live in an apartment. Um my brother [clears throat] went through um bankruptcy a few years ago and the

second he was finished with bankruptcy, took I bought a $2,000 dog and was making payments on it. Um then he got a

a new job, was making good money and immediately bought a brand new car off the lot, made has these these giant payments. Okay, I'm I'm getting a picture. Let me ask you this. Um and this isn't an attempt to give you any answer through the lens of what would I do.

If I understood correctly, did grandmother contact you and say should I will some of my money to your brothers.

The exact conversation was I'm going to put you guys as the

uh to take over what Mike would have gotten. Do you want me to put you or your brothers? She reached out to me because she doesn't have a relationship with them. They haven't spoken in years.

>> that's a nuance the way you just said that. You said you or your brothers. She said do I give your dad's portion, which we're saying is 100 to 120,000, somewhere in that range.

Do I Do I give it to you or your brothers? That's what you just said. Now, that's a very different question.

>> Versus just you or your brothers.

Yeah, I sorry. I meant just me or just me and my brothers in terms of name on the will. >> So, here's Grandma has come to you and and she's putting it in your lap or she's asking your opinion.

Yes. And you haven't gotten back to her?

I did. I told her to put just my name.

Okay, so you're having second thoughts.

No, I get it. Are you having >> why? It's It's I did not tell her why. She didn't ask. All right, are you having second thoughts?

I'm not necessarily having second thoughts about my name on it. I think that's appropriate. I'm more concerned about what do I do for them? I I feel like they do deserve something. It was their dad that passed too, not just mine.

>> stay right there. I I just I'm with you.

We got a little limited time and I'm trying to walk you to where you can feel good about your decision. This is your decision, not Jade or mine. All right?

So, I understand what you just said. So, before you called us, I know that you thought through an amount.

Let's just play with 100,000 as a easy round number. What were you thinking about giving each of them?

Um well, I kicked two things around.

I've kicked around giving them each 10 um because that's not quite enough to do too much damage and I've also thought about just paying something off for them rather than handing them the cash. >> have a quick follow-up. Do they know that grandmama has has asked you any of this or that they might get any money or they clueless?

It's They're clueless.

Okay. Let me jump in. I think the third the the middle option when you said I could just pay something off for them, I would not do that. I think you're trying to control the situation too much. >> Mhm. Um they They're who they are and they're grown and they're adults and they're going to make your their decisions. I think if you try to get too controlling in that area, it's only going to lead to heartache for for both parties. Um I I'm ready to rule. Go

ahead. I'll give you the last word. I'm just going to quickly say I think you pick the number. I don't care if it's 10, the original thought. You pick a number that you can sleep good at night.

They don't know. So, this is going to be found money for them and you don't I think you pick a number and the number that lets you sleep well at night. Jade?

That's my take. That's what I would do if I were you. I'm in um I'm inclined [music] to split it equally. Three ways? As long as nobody's doing drugs.

Yeah. Yeah, and I I don't hate that. I don't have any kind of pushback. I'm just trusting your gut. I'm coaching you. It's your call based on what your instinct was, but I like that. You got two options. Thanks for the call.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, [music] now we go to Daniel who's joining us in Dallas, Texas. Daniel, how can we help today?

Yeah.

Daniel, you're there? >> Hello. Yes, can you hear me? Yes, sir. Can you hear us? I got Yes, sir. I can hear you as well. All right, how can we help?

Yeah, so uh I have a question. So, I think it was about 2 years ago. It'll be 2 years in March March 2024. I bought a brand new car right off the lot. At the time I was like 23.

Um zero miles. I had It was about 515 a month and with insurance it was also another 300 a month. That's about like I don't know.

It's a little more It's close to $900 a month paying about 800 and paying just on my car car loan. Uh I'm thinking should I cuz I recently like I got laid off from my job back then. I was working so and I was living at my parents' house so it wasn't necessarily like the the worst for me to go into that. I mean, looking back at it now, I wish I didn't.

But, um I was wondering, do you guys think I should like sell my car? I owe about 22,000 left on there. Yeah. I did Kelly Blue Book.

Yes, so what do you What do y'all think I should do? I think I'm thinking yes. I want to get more information, but I'm I'm I'm starting with the yes.

Uh well, right now I'm unemployed. I'm I'm back in school so I'm living off unemployment right now.

It's about 500 a week. >> Yeah, then definitely there's I mean, if you really think about it, there is no other option. You can't afford this car. You don't have a job.

And so for that reason, I 100% would get out of this. Now, you owe 22. What's it worth?

20. That's the only problem. No, it's not a It feels like a problem, but it's not as big a problem as you think.

Um if I were you, I would try Are you still at your parents' house or no?

Yeah, I am. Okay, what I would do is I would scrounge up 2,000 bucks a month out of that 500 that you're getting and I'd close the gap and get rid of this thing immediately.

And then your next move while you're doing that, you're picking up a job,

any job, any literally any job for now, and then you're going to scrounge up that money and you're going to turn around and take another two or three thousand dollars and you're going to buy

a used car in cash. And I'm just saying

this in the comments because I know people are like, you can't buy a $1,500 You can't buy a $2,000 car. Yes, you can. Ken, the car that I drive,

my Cadillac, it's a 2013 SRX.

It's worth about 1,500 bucks. Now, I didn't pay that for it, but I've driven it. >> the car that's out there? It's a It's got 168,000 miles on it.

>> It looks like it's worth more than that. >> It has no problems. I could sell like I literally could sell it to you today and you would be like, wow, I can't believe I got this. So, they're out there is all I'm saying. >> might should sell it to him. He needs a car. >> Where where where Where do you think I could find a car for that affordable that You know what I mean? Cuz like my last car I had, it was breaking down a lot.

Uh that's the reason why I ended up buying like a new car off the lot. And this And this is a new It's a It's a Honda too so I know it's going to like my car that I have right now pretty reliable. >> just need to make sure that you're doing a little bit of research and buy brands Number one, buy cars that you still see on the road. Like you you can't go wrong with a Camry.

You can't go wrong with some of these cars that are still out there. You're just looking for something that's got a bunch of miles on it. It's older and try to just get the report on it. Try to find out, has it been in 10 wrecks?

Has it been and spend a little bit of money to have a mechanic look at it and get the Carfax on it.

Matter fact, you can I don't know where you live, but here we [snorts] have Christian Brothers Automotive and that's where I take my car, my husband's car.

Both of us drive very used cars and we take them in there and they'll look at it. If I was going to buy a new used car a new to me or used car today, I'd bring it over there and they'll do the report on it and it's totally worth it. So, that's what I would tell you to do. Once you have your eye on a car, say, "Hey, can can I Can I bring it over to mechanic mechanic?" Take it to Christian Brothers and then they'll give you the the full workup on it.

Yeah, and and just a little specifics, I mean, you're looking at Facebook Marketplace.

going to have to you know, assume some hardship, but you're living with your mom and dad. So, there are options. So, this idea that I got to have a nice car and all this kind of stuff. It's really not not true.

But, you know, if if you are looking and you find somebody that's got a car in one of these Hondas and you know, or a Toyota, you know, that kind of thing. And again, you take it to Christian Brothers, they're going to give it a give it a once over and you may have to put five, six hundred bucks into it.

>> Yeah. And they're going to tell you, Right. >> "This is a drivable car. Is it Does it look pretty? Does it smell great? Is the carpet nice?" None of those things are true when we're talking about the the the kind of car we're talking about here, but uh it gets you from A to Z. I want to pivot for a second. What is the purpose of school for you? What what are you doing? Is this community college?

>> I'm in No, I'm in trade school. I'm enrolled at a aviation mechanic school. So, I have about like a year I am That's great.

Fantastic. Daniel, I got to tell you

I am so excited for you.

What is the What is it costing you?

The This is it's like about 40 though. I took a loan. I I wish I like I'm thinking about enrolling uh cuz I was talking to somebody in my class today about it about like enrolling in the the reserves cuz I think it's I think they can like cover I I'm not mad at that idea.

>> I don't dislike that either. I don't want you spending 40,000 on this trade school. Um but so if you can get out of that and

not do that, that's great. But I love the trade school option for you.

Because is it you're going to make some really good money, my friend.

Yeah, I >> love it. I love it. I just passed my final today. How old are you?

Uh I'm 25. Just I'm about to be 26.

Yeah, I I like that what I'm going to tell you what I like about what you're doing. I like that you were reflective enough to look at this car and say this is not good. A lot of people would have tried to ride it out, kept it. I like that you're thinking about your future.

You you you made a a couple of mistakes, but that's all right. You're on the right track, and Ken and I just want to really encourage you that you you're on the right track. So do you believe So talking to this guy you're Do you believe that you can get out of the commitment if you were to pull stakes and go to the reserves?

Uh In other words, are you on the hook control I want to make sure you're not on the hook for $40,000?

>> not. I'm not on the Well, yeah, I am on the hook. That's the problem. Like I'm like I I signed I already took the loan, everything. >> Uh you've already paid for the full thing.

Yeah, it's like it's already like paid for. You know what I mean? Like >> I see. So you've already got the loan and the school gets their money up front. And then uh a year from now, is that when you're done and then you start paying on the loan?

Yes. Yeah, but like I'm taking I'm starting to make it like interest payment. I'm make I'm paying like I started paying like I think it's like $50 a month uh on the interest for now.

How many hours a week How many hours a week could you work if Jade and I just handed you an awesome paying job and knowing your commitment to trade school, how many hours a week could you work?

I'll probably do about like 20 to 30.

Is there any Is there any kind of mechanical or apprenticing type work where you're getting really nice chunk per hour?

Fixing fixing something? I was just talking to I was just talking to somebody in my school today. Uh she's like she has find people to get jobs.

Like she does her her role is to do that. It's like help you find a job. And so after you graduate, you can get an A&P, but also while you're in school Great. >> trying to find like a airport. So she she was telling me about some jobs that pay about like 22, 23 an hour that will they're basically like being a mechanic without the actual license. Uh you know what I >> So proud of you for asking, but Daniel, the answer is yes.

Yes. Sign me up. >> I'll take whatever you can find me. This woman you're telling me about is your new best friend. >> Yeah, I'm not I'm not I'm not picky with the job. Like I I really want a airport job just so I can get the license, but I'm not like Like I know right now like in the day I just need a job that you Yeah, you do.

Because because we got to get out of this car mess. Action A is what Jade

told you you sell the car, you you borrow mom dad's, they drive you, whatever. We scrape, we do whatever we got to do, we claw, and then we get to the point where we can buy a better car.

We talked about that, all right? We told you to go see Christian Brothers if there's one in your area. Okay. Now, okay. And then it's just whatever you're making in this $23, $24 an hour job is

going to pay off this debt so that you can knock as big a chunk of that out as possible so that when you hit the streets Now again, if you go to the reserves, it's not a bad idea. But I like the options you're considering. Lay them all out on the table, seek the counsel of wise people in your life, make the best decision for you, and just avoid debt, my man. I love that you're you're aware of this, but you can you can make really good money.

Uh and you got a bright future ahead of you, Daniel.

>> I appreciate that. >> Get rid of the debt, stay away from it.

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>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> All right, let's go to Madison, Wisconsin where Alexis is joining us.

Alexis, how can we help?

Hi guys. Hi.

Um so my boyfriend and I are newly

devoted and intentional with our money individually. >> All right. >> Um we talked about marriage, we talked about our incomes, our debts, and all those goals. And so with that being said, when we get married, I'm intrigued

to the idea of having one joint checking account and savings account with our incomes being deposited and budgeted from that we share versus if we were to

have separate checkings and then just like one joint account. How would those

operate in the idea of unity?

I mean, I like the first way you said.

That that's the way my husband and I do it. I'm guessing Ken, that's the way you and Stacy do it because there's full transparency there. The question that I'd be asking uh with the other way having two two separate checking accounts and then you take your money's and put whatever amount you deem necessary into the joint account. It's kind of like, well, what's the purpose there? So I'd have a lot of questions around that. What What's the purpose? Why wouldn't we both have access to the full amount of funds? Why

wouldn't we both be planning what's done with that full amount of funds? Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah, and that's what I was wondering and just between the two, I'm more intrigued to the just one joint Yeah, one joint checking and savings, but we just weren't sure what you guys would say. I I would say that. I would say for transparency reasons and for uh the

ability to be aligned and everybody to see what's going on and kind of have a, you know, hey, all hands in the center, you know, that kind of thing. Um Yeah.

If you guys are both open with that, I think that's fabulous, and I think you say say less, let's do it. Now the the multiple accounts thing, the the only

the only reason that I think people go for that is cuz there's still a bit of like independence that they want, and there's still this bit of mine is mine, lack of

trust. I want to keep a little bit over here for myself. I don't want anybody to have to say about what I spend money on over here. I don't want to have to answer to like quote answer to anyone for this money that Do you see what I'm saying? So it really does beg many many questions if you choose to do it that way, which I think you shouldn't.

Okay, well, perfect because I we're both on the same page of being intentional together for our marriage.

>> You're going to have a greater level of trust, greater level of confidence. It's such a good move. It's what we teach. We don't believe that married couples should have separate finances. Come together as one. So yeah, you guys are doing it great. Congratulations on all of this future dreaming and all this good stuff. We're we're here for you. Uh as you move along, uh call us back and we'll walk through that with you.

Ken, when you and Stacy got married, was that an automatic, or did it take time for you guys to get that?

>> automatic. Why? It's what our parents did. Yeah. I mean, we grew up in a house where uh there were two accounts, a checking account and a savings account, right?

>> And um I mean, we're not talking about investment, but just just um your your everyday money. So um What I mean, full disclosure, my wife and I are both pastors' kids. So very conservative Baptist, you know, small churches. So it wasn't just conservative theology, it was just conservative living. Do you know what I mean? They lived on less than they made. So that's all we ever knew. In fact, I wish Stacy were here cuz I I don't think I'm wrong.

I don't think we ever even had a conversation about it. about it at all.

>> It just happened. It was just like, when we get back from the honeymoon, we got a Do we want to stay with my bank or we want to We were at two different banks when dating. >> Uh-huh. And so she was in North Carolina and she was going to move to Virginia with, you know, so it was like, well, here's who I'm banking with in Virginia and it was just kind of like, we got to set up a joint It was just day one. That's so interesting.

>> We never even considered and I've always

kind of done that uh that dog head tilt Uh-huh.

when people call in. To this day, even though I've sat in this hundreds of hours, you know, maybe thousands. And it's like, every time I hear something like that, I go, I just I just don't understand why you would want to have separate accounts. It's got to be a trust issue cuz I'm even thinking about Sam and I and it was similar It was just like you and Stacy. It wasn't even a question.

And when I really think about it, I go, well, I had plenty of reason to say, uh

you know, things I've seen and he had plenty of reason to say the things I've seen, like >> Yeah. our backgrounds did not truly set us up to combine money, but I'm guessing we really just had trust in each other because it was like a no-brainer. I I'm just going to say and again, I I mean, everybody has their own foibles and faults and everything. But just as a guy now coming up on 28 years of marriage I'm so grateful that

my phone location is on and she knows where I'm at all the time. >> Yes. She sees any expenditure. Yes, she

has I'm sure the code, you know, the six-digit code to get into your phone.

100%. >> Yes. I don't We have the same phone password because I mean, you know what I'm saying? I love >> advocate. What would happen if you changed your phone code and she said >> I shudder at the thought of the idea [laughter] of removing Not because I'm this bad person. Here's what I don't want. I don't want to be like, Ken's fighting team. No, I'm just saying, like, it's nice to live a life where you know there's I'm going to call it an instinctive accountability. Yes.

Like we We've both made mistakes with money. Yes. But we've never done something insanely stupid in our almost 20 years of marriage because even if I want to like surprise her

Yeah. Like I have to say hey, listen, uh for the next 72 hours I need you to not look at the account.

>> account. >> That's That's my life. And she knows, why are you doing something squirrely?

No, she knows, oh, you want to surprise me. >> Uh-huh. My surprises are like And you got to reveal a little of the surprise. >> [laughter] >> But I'm not griping about it.

I'm saying I just think human nature left to its own devices, we're not None of us are above doing something dumb, immoral, whatever, whatever, whatever. And I just think that when we talk about combining finances It's accountability. And I like that we're going down the rabbit hole on this.

And the principle that we teach here at Ramsey about joint finances isn't just

about, you know, being responsible. It's

also to keep you from wrecking your life. You need somebody to go, what are Wait, what? WHAT WERE YOU THINKING ABOUT DOING? >> JUST SPENT what on what? Take it back.

Yeah, 100%.

>> Because when you have the separate accounts what doesn't change is that you do have a shared life.

But a shared life with separate accounts to me feels like a recipe for tension. I

I It's not fully shared. I You know >> with you. I agree. There's just something about it because if Sam had his own account I would have I would

just wonder, what are you I would wonder, what are you spending your money on? Not that He's a great guy. I have no

reason to assume he's spending money on bad things, but to not know You know

what? >> and to not be told is like, why are you Why would you withhold information that is easily shared is basically what I'm saying. >> that it creates something that may not even be there. Yes.

>> But just by the very nature of, well, I've got my thing and all this kind of stuff. One of my favorite stories, uh Sam just told me recently >> [laughter] >> so you guys in your budget Sam and I I've told you this. I'm not going to I'm not going to >> Well, I'm not going to share that part unless you want to share it. But Sam and I were having cigars recently and he was telling me that you guys, like a lot of couples, you guys have your budget and it's his money.

Like you have Do you call >> money? his and hers. >> his and hers fun money. Yeah, it's fun money.

Uh-huh. And he goes, I'll just hold it aside, hold it aside, hold it aside, not use it at all and then go buy something really big. >> Yeah. And I like that. Yes.

>> And it reminded me of how there's the individuality. Because you guys have decided ahead of time this is my money, this is your money and he may not spend it for months and months and months and he told me this story because he went out and did something and even then he was telling me and he was like, do you think that's crazy? And I go, not at all. No. I said,

I think that's a massive flex. Yeah, and when he told me, he goes, I thought that you were going to think this is the dumbest thing anybody could spend their money on. I said, I don't think that at all. >> Yeah.

And I I said, it's not dumb. I said, you know why? Cuz this thing you're doing is going to be a memory that your entire family will talk about 50 years from now. He bought an original Ninja Turtles suit from the movie Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles back in the day.

For family Halloween, comes downstairs, kids haven't seen it. He looks like he walked off a movie set. Yeah, and my kids, they'll never forget it. It was a great memory.

And it was expensive. Yes, it was. >> he saved it up in his sock [laughter] drawer for months. And that's how it works.

>> him. Yes. >> it. >> [laughter] [music]

[music]

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All right, 888-825-5225

is the phone number. Michael is up next in Knoxville, Tennessee. Michael, how can we help?

Hey guys, appreciate you having me on.

Big fan of the show. Thank you. How can we help? Uh All right, so I'm going to try to kind of scratch the surface a lot uh as quick as I can. Uh I'm a football coach,

um high school football coach and teacher, um couple years ago, I took a job um at a really prestigious school football-wise.

Um it was a football move, but also, more importantly for my family, it was a financial move.

Um been making more money as an assistant coach honestly, than I thought I ever would unless I became a head a head coach, which is a goal of mine one day.

that's kind of been an issue for me and it's been weighing on me. So, since this season ended, I've had actually two different places reach out to me um with some offers to go to to coach and teach, obviously.

Um Both are kind of pulling at me in two different directions. I feel like I'm at a roundabout, not a four-way. So, it's like, you know, do I do I stay where I'm at making really good money knowing that it's going to kind of keep me away from my family more than I want? And then one job, okay, is at another

prestigious place, really great place, the pay is really good, not quite as good as what I'm making now, but I mean, it's it's just top of the line as far as family atmosphere and having my kids.

Um What do you mean by that? Can I ask a question? When you said keeping you away from First, you described it as you didn't want your kids to grow up in that school system. Was that what it is? And then you said keeping keeping away from my family. So, is it your schedule or is it the community?

Which one is it or is it a combination of both? Well, it it's some of both, you know, it's it's a demanding schedule, but it's more so you know, I've been blessed throughout my career.

Um You know, my daughter is nine now and she since she was a baby, she's just kind of been able to come with me so many so much throughout the off-season, you know, for meetings and practices and Mhm. you know, and and I've had this dream with my boys, you know, with my daughter's cheering one day like she wants to do, my boys kind of being water boys on the sideline, just being around me Yeah, but you don't want them in this current school.

Exactly, I don't. Absolutely not. Okay, so that's >> for reasons, yeah. >> so because of time, I want to get I feel like I heard we got a good grip on what you are doing now. So, you gave us another option. Is there another So, we got where we are and then we have option A and B. Am I understanding that correct? That's right. >> All right, so option A is fabulous school. How much less money?

Uh about seven grand a year less. The downside of that can is it's 3 and 1/2 hours away. Um so it's selling a house we built on my wife's family's land that she kind of deeded to us which they we've talked to them about it. They're okay with it, but there's that stress of you know, cuz it's kind of a quick turnaround, you know, getting ready for next season.

So if I take this job, you know, then we have that stress of finding another home which I don't think it's going to be an issue, but finding a house in a short amount of time, you know, or do we rent it? There's that whole thing that's just really just stressing me out. >> get it.

Uh is your wife open to moving from this current place where it's your family's land or her family's land?

She is and just Great. I told you just a yeah. And I'll tell you this, this is a lot. And uh so we've got three children. Um

and we actually have one on the way.

Come on. All right. Well, coach, I ain't worried about you. You can handle it. I understand this is stressful, but I'm okay. Now let's look at option B real quick. Talk us through option B. Option B is actually my hometown, my alma mater. Uh I've worked for the guy who's there now before. He's like a father to me. Great guy. I love the guys on staff. I played there.

Um wants me to come back. It's also both of these position offers are for coordinator position. So it's a move up there. It it's a significant paycheck.

So it would be a, you know, 20 25,000 dollar paycheck. But

>> Yes. Yeah. >> you the are you the sole income?

I am. My wife stays at home. I am.

Okay. Before I weigh in on this, I want to know the truth, coach.

Where's your heart? If no one else is involved, Jade and I aren't weighing in, your wife's not weighing in, nobody's weighing in on it.

In the quiet of night, what's your heart telling you about these three? Stay, A, or B?

Um The only option A. I mean, I want to go I want to go to this want to move up north. I want to you know, Come on. go to the mountains.

Come on. I'll have my family with me. Come on. It's just that fear of the home, you know, and that kind of thing.

>> All right, let's walk through that. But before we walk through that, I want Jade to walk through any of these logistics. She's great at this kind of stuff. Here's what I want to say, okay?

As a guy who's completely objective sitting here listening to this, I want to go with your heart answer unless your heart answer is stupid.

Now, Okay. it's a coordinator job, so it sets you up to be a head coach one day. So this is obviously this meets the ladder box.

I'm always looking at when I give advice to people, does this get me further up the ladder or position me to move up the ladder? And it puts you further up the ladder. The 7,000 dollar hit, I'm going

to absorb that because if I amortize

that over 12 months, I can tighten the

belt and I can absorb a 7,000 dollar hit. 25's too much. Um

and I think if you play your cards right with your old coach on that, maybe you replace him one day. Who knows? Who knows? So I like option A. It's now just about handling that stress. Jade, you've moved recently with younger kids. Uh walk him through uh what he needs to do if his wife's on board. Sounds like she is.

He's stressed out about a move 3 and 1/2 hours away to get there, get on board, and get ready to go for the season. What has he got to walk through? >> both of you have to agree, number one. I hope that her gut instinct is the same as your gut instinct or else you guys have many conversations to have. That's number one. >> she think A is the best move?

I think she does, you know, she she It's important to her for that family atmosphere for sure. Okay, that's good.

And then after that, I'm just going to say how So I know that the the location on screen is not accurate and probably the location that you're telling us you're going is not accurate. But is it a couple of states over? Are are you moving >> No. No, same state. I'm in the south state. I'm in southern part of the state.

It's 3 and 1/2 hours up here, you know,

in the mountains. Okay, got it. That's right. You did say 3 hours away. Um the biggest thing is just to plan for and save up as much as you can in in this interim because moving is expensive. It takes time to get settled. There's a lot of eating out during that time. There's a lot of like oh gosh, we just realized we don't have this and you run over to Wal-Walmart and get it, right? There's just a lot of expenditures that come up.

So I would just be going through the budget with a fine-tooth comb right now, figuring out what we can, you know, save money on so we can stack up as much cash as possible, get as much information ahead of time. How are you going to move? Are you going to do the U-Haul thing? Are you going to, you know, have somebody cart it over for you?

What are you going to do? And just make a plan and stick to the plan. That's the best thing that you could possibly do um on this. And then what I would also do probably tonight uh or this weekend cuz we're coming up on the weekend, I would set a date night with your wife and say, let's make a budget with this 25,000 dollar paycheck.

No, no, no, seven. Seven. Option A is a 7,000 dollar hit.

Um just again so that there's no surprises or so at least you're mitigating the surprises. There's always going to be a few.

You know what I wish, coach? I wish in the background we had the theme song from the greatest television show of all time, Friday Night Lights. Did you ever watch it, the TV show?

Absolutely. >> All right, coach, finish it up for me. I feel like there's only one thing to say for you. Clear eyes, full hearts.

>> Full hearts. Say it. >> Can't lose. Can't lose. Go get 'em, coach.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman, best-selling author of What No One Tells You About Money, brand new national bestseller topping the charts.

We shared the news earlier today if you didn't know. Super excited to be sitting next to her. She is Jade Warshaw. So fun. Congratulations again, my friend.

That's always a fun fun and very very rare air. So congratulations to you.

>> Thank you. I appreciate it. >> McKenzie is up next in Orlando, Florida.

McKenzie, how can we help you?

Hey, thanks for having me. I um I was calling to get your thoughts on um an idea I have around possibly selling a rental property. And it might be good for me to give you some background. Yes.

Um so I currently make uh 400,000 a

year. And um my wife's in school. She's going to be working when she finishes her grad school. She'll probably make about 150.

But we don't have any credit card debt. We don't have any car notes.

The debt we do have is 850 on our current house. And we have

combined about 300,000 in student loan debt. Okay. >> Um and and then my first house that I had before our marriage has a mortgage of about 450 on it. So all in about 1.6.

Okay. And Okay, go ahead.

>> So uh the the rental property that has 450 on it, it cash flows about 1,200 a month which is good. It's been phenomenal. It's in like the best part of the city, great schools. It's just it's great location that will probably appreciate really fast. But my question to you is that house has about 300,000 in equity.

Okay. Is it worth holding on to the house, continuing to rent it, and having

it as a cash-flowing asset once I get into retirement?

Or is it better to sell it now,

take the 300,000 dollars in equity, and pay off student loans for my wife and myself?

I personally I'm going to I'm going to give you two two options here.

There's part of me that I would sell this house immediately to clear the student loans.

Um then I look at your income and I go, well, heck. I want to know how quickly she's going to be making 150.

She graduates in May and she'll start working in August. Interesting. Now, I want to know this cuz this is a lot of times we step into real estate and it's just like by default. I just had this house and I decided not to sell it and so now it became this. Is this if you were looking to buy a real estate rental, would you have picked this house?

Cuz it just so happens >> No. >> You said no. Okay, that's all I need to know. That's all I needed to know.

>> Can I Can I ask some context? >> I don't know. I don't think so because if you had said you started by saying it's in a great neighborhood, it cash flows so well, and every once in a while here when people have stepped into real estate, even if they've done it the wrong way, if it seems like it could benefit them, I'm not as quick to sell it off, right?

But in this case, all I needed to know is is this a good enough property that you would have bought this looking? And you said no. That's all I needed to know, Ken. What about you? >> Well, the the context the context of it >> at it He McKenzie's in the corner. You painted him in the corner and now he's trying to [laughter] get out. Go I want to give him a shot.

Yeah, the the answer you provided probably it might be right, but the reason why I said no is not because it's not in a great area. It's that if I was investing in real estate, I wouldn't look at a 500,000 dollar house which is what this was when I bought it. I would be looking Exactly. >> it has But it has worked out that it has

rented well and cash flowed and it's in the best area and it has the best schools. And so I do think if I look down the road 20 years and I look back I'll be like, "Man, I'm glad I have [clears throat] this house and you know, thankful." But then there's also the looming $300,000 >> Right. And and I see what you're saying.

I totally understand it. What I was trying to get to was could there be some intentionality around this that you could look back and go, "I didn't mean to do this, but I'm so glad this dropped in my lap because if I was I would have picked this. I just didn't know I was looking, right?" That would have been a little bit different for me.

this property and then by the time, you

know, the house is up on the market, it sells, by then my wife's going to be making $150,000.

How quickly could we then pay off our current home?

And then how quickly could we say, "You know what? Let's get back into real estate and now let's purchase a thing that we think we would have bought," which like you said is not a $500,000 house, it's probably something half that price. And you could do that so very quickly and do it from a position of stability because there's no debt, your personal residence is covered, that sort of thing. That's what I'm thinking.

Yeah, that's great. And I really appreciate that insight. Um One of the things that I did look at is like if I kept the house how fast could I pay off the rental house and my primary house?

>> I had that thought, too.

Well, what's the answer? >> If I double down on it, the answer is 18 years. Oh.

How- However, if I sell the rental property now and then put everything into the primary house, I could pay it off in 10.

I like plus plus pay off the loan?

Um if I sell the house, I could pay off the loan and have my primary paid off in 10 years. But if I >> I'm saying. Let me let me ask you a question, McKinsey. I feel like I feel like we've talked around this enough. I thought Jade's answer's fantastic. I have a question for you.

When you dialed us up today, which way were you leaning? What were you going to do? What were you thinking you were going to do, but you wanted to get our take?

I have been So I've been noodling on this for about a month. I have been torn until about 2 days ago and I was leaning towards selling it. >> Mhm. Then can I just tell you something?

It's It's probably 55/45. Okay. So that

The reason I asked that question is because you've already gotten great advice. There's nothing I can add to what Jade said. I thought she said it beautifully. I agree with Jade. But I want to know what you were thinking before you called.

>> Mhm. And when I ask that and the answer, Jade, is the same thing that you say

Yeah. then I say I know Jade's right. No offense, McKinsey. You're emotionally involved, she's not. She's got experience, we've got principles.

But I guess I'm trying to help you see that your gut, your head were aligned

and they were right. And I'm just going to tell you you just got coached to the same position you were even though you're going to say 55/45.

The 45 is some type of doubt, some type of fear, some type of influence from some other thing. The 55 is McKinsey.

So that's all I'm going to say.

And I I really appreciate that um cuz I probably do get in my head about it a little too much. >> do. Yeah, welcome to the club.

Yeah, I think the thing that I overthink, which I probably should have included this earlier on, too, is the money that I make is relatively new for me, but it is I think it's very

sustainable for the next 20 years.

>> Uh-huh. And I say that to say I haven't

put away as much for retirement as I would have liked. And I'm even though I'm going to work for 20 more years, I see myself like in my later years keeping this house is going to give me good income to supplement 401k and other investments. >> What's going to give you more income?

What's going to give you more in- ability to put away is your actual income. >> That's right. >> You having that at your disposal, not having the stress of $300,000 of debt because the thing you have to remember, McKinsey, is debt changes the the way

you make decisions. It changes the choices you make. It changes everything.

When you have $300,000 of debt and $850,000 of a home loan and another $500,000, it changes all the decisions that you make. And you need clarity. And so the way you get clarity is you clear out the debt. Then you can see, "Okay, what do Now I can see very clearly, there's not this negative fear influence." [music] And it really does open the path up for you.

>> [music]

>> All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents

aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling, they're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseysolutions.com

All right, our Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by W Y Refi. If defaulted private student loans have taken over your life W Y Refi can help you breathe again with a low fixed rate plan that fits your budget. Visit wyrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter Y R E F Y {dot} com {slash} ramsey. Not available in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Trevor in Utah. He says, "I recently spent a total of $6,000

on two luxury watches, which I paid for in cash. The purchase hasn't impacted our finances in any way. My wife and I are in our 30s and earn over $200,000 a year. We contribute 15% of our income to

retirement. We pay extra towards our mortgage every month and carry no other debt. I haven't told my wife about the watches yet. How do I bring this up to her?" >> [laughter] >> I hope they're his and hers. Listen, Ken. Okay, so let's >> got like major acid reflux on behalf of

this guy. I need some Pepto immediately.

>> Let me frame it up first. Okay, first off money-wise, like dollars-wise

fine. Uh no biggie, right? You're you

you check every box on the financial responsible adult checklist that I can see. I'm sure you're generous. I'm sure you're on some sort of a budget. Those are the only two you didn't mention outright. Um >> [snorts] >> I wonder I don't know. Ken and I talked

in an earlier segment about Sam and I having separate um fun money. And I don't know if this is a case where you're like, "Hey, I just saved up my fun money for a while or this was money that was kind of budgeted over to me and I just stacked it up and bought these watches." Fine, if that's what you did. Uh my biggest question is if that wasn't the case and you just strolled through the, you know, through the checking account, you just took it out and she never noticed. That's kind of weird.

That's kind of weird. >> written in saying, "How do I bring this up?" This is this >> 100%. Anybody that's going, "How do I bring this up?" It's like uh so your wife didn't know that you were going to go buy two watches? I mean, it's for him, not even one for her. >> [laughter] >> Well, I don't know what he's doing. I don't know if he's reselling them. It does We just don't know.

>> more. Okay, let's role-play it.

>> Okay, so if I if I flush the Pepto-Bismol out of my brain and I go, "Okay, what would I do?" Um You went to Las Vegas, you got caught up in the moment and >> bought two watches. >> two not with winnings or maybe it was winnings. Oh no, it's a new It's a non-conversation if it's winnings.

>> Okay, non- So let's say >> $3,000 out of our account for two watches and I didn't tell Stacy ahead of time um And it's been a little while. >> You know I'm having a problem with this because there's just no scenario under the sun by which that happens. No, me neither. But I guess I'm going to say, "Hey, listen.

I did something spontaneous uh pre-impulsive. I feel great about it or I feel whatever." He's got to be honest. He isn't including your wife I think he's just got to be really, really honest and say, "Hey, how do you feel about this?" Because here's what I do know about luxury watches, he can resell those.

>> Well Oh no, trust me. I have a friend in Atlanta who made who made a nice living buying nice watches. But he has two for $6,000. It's not that that that nice.

I'm thinking of a nice watch.

Well, but I'm just saying like uh those are nice watches. He can He can move those. >> He can move those? Okay. >> 100%. I'm thinking about the nice ones.

Yes, but it's not a car. [laughter] That's true. It's not a car you drive off the lot. There's no depreciation in luxury watches. >> Yeah. So um He hasn't said that he plans to resell them. I'm just saying no. I'm saying when he goes to her, he's got to go, "Hey, here's what I did.

I should have told you.

I'm telling you now.

Here's why I did it." He's got to explain his why. >> he did it. That's the advice. Your first piece is >> to tell her why. Figure out why did you do this and not tell her. So that that way when you bring the conversation up you can speak from an honest place. That's all I got, Ken.

I This is so foreign to me. It's like someone asking me, "How do you solve a trigonometry problem?" The answer is, "I don't know." No idea. >> couldn't do it if my life depended on it. So there's no scenario by which I um

I'm just trying to think. Okay. I'll tell you what. I did make a purchase

almost the exact amount of money exact amount of money. >> Okay, tell us more. And I didn't tell Stacy, but it was a surprise. Was it for

her? For the family.

>> Oh, okay. >> So this is not like two nice watches. It was a It was a >> Oh, I know what it was. >> it is. I don't want to share it. You can share it. Come on. >> I don't you know, Stacy's really private. So I'm not. I would be like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." Anyway, so the point is How'd she react? >> Well, it was it's back to the previous call where I said, "Hey, I'm doing something cuz I had to ask her where the checkbook was." >> Understood. Wow.

>> [laughter] >> Well, because I don't write checks. >> Yeah. So you're like, "I'm going to do this thing. It's going to Did you tell her how much it would cost?" >> No. I just said, "Trust me." And she does.

Like she knows I'm not going to go do something stupid with money. So I said, "I'm going to make a you know, pretty substantial purchase and you just got to trust me and I need a check for it and I need you to stay out of the you know, like keep doing do your little recon couple days from now which point it will allow me to reveal it and it's really something fun and exciting for the family. And you agree.

And by the way, my family loves it.

Great. >> It wasn't for me. >> Yeah, it was And how'd she react when she saw what you spent and what you spent it on? >> She absolutely loved it. >> Great. But true story. Had I gone to her

ahead of time and said, "I want to spend this on that." She would have tried to talk me out of it. >> Yeah. Cuz she has a few times before.

That makes sense. So But but that's not this, is it? Wait, he didn't He didn't tell us enough. He should have >> Okay.

Uh Trevor, wherever you are, call in and tell us more, please. But but here's why I told my story on this thing that I bought. Had Stacy walked out and seen it when I showed it to her and had she been like "Uh-uh. What are you doing?

What did you spend on this?" You would have taken it back. >> 100% I would have. >> So Trevor, you need to be prepared to take back these watches if it doesn't sit right with his wife. I I almost didn't land the plane.

You landed it. >> Right? But does that make sense? >> I was doing this with the air traffic controls.

>> But my point is is as long as you're willing to backtrack it and you can backtrack it, then all is well. All is well. Agree.

you and the Warshaw family will very much enjoy this. How is that?

>> Trust me. They're going to love it when they come over. All right, cool.

>> They're just going to absolutely love it. Okay, great. I was like, are you are you going to I'll tell you on the commercial. >> Great. Thank you. >> Uh let's go to Danny in Minneapolis.

Stacy, do we have time for Danny? Yes, we can Yeah, we can do that. Danny, how can we help?

Hi Jade. Hi Ken. How are we doing today?

Well, we're having a blast. What's going on with you? Awesome. I um I'm 21 years old. I turn

22 next month. Um

and I live at my parents' house. I rent from them for $500 a month.

Um I'm thinking I've been thinking I've been trying to move out for probably like a year and a half or so.

Um What stopped you?

Um well, the I in order to get into what you guys

would recommend of 25% of your take-home pay, um that's a little bit hard. Now I

think my income can support um rent, but

it's still pretty um What do you make?

>> pretty steep pretty steep where I live.

So um 2025 it was 50,000 after taxes. So I

have I have a bunch of different income

sources um cuz I'm self-employed. >> Okay. Is that steady for you? 50,000?

Sorry, what was that? >> Is that steady for you? 50,000?

A year? >> Yeah, so yeah, so I'm I'm only expecting it to go up. Um there's no reason it shouldn't.

But it's not steady month to month. So it's very like um like in the winter it slows down cuz I have a detailing company. So in in the spring it's super busy. Um and then I have I

have other sources. >> So here's what you got to do. You know those winter months when it slows down and you have a good idea how much time you will have? Mhm. Start finding some supplementary supplementary work.

So that we don't have a dip in income.

>> Mhm. Or if it is, it's it's negligible and you can budget for that. >> Mhm. Yeah, whenever you have irregular income having a fund set aside of what you know that gap is going to be and keeping that replenished all the time is is so good to have. Um yeah, I like that

you're trying to keep it at the 25% rule. Just make sure that when you make the jump you're ready. You're going to have first and last month's rent and all of that other stuff and budget to make sure that you can truly afford it before you make the leap.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are, too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is.

"I'm going to save money." or "I'm going to get my financial act together." But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win and our EveryDollar app is the game changer you need.

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>> [music]

>> Everybody.

Yes, you.

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Ryan is up in Ottawa, Ontario. Ryan, how

can we help?

Hey, how are you? Good. How are you today? Good, thank you. Um just kind of had a question and trying to get different um you know, just if I can get some navigation through it. Doing a cohabitation agreement with a partner there.

Um just you know, between the finances.

Ah, interesting. So just to make sure I understand your girlfriend you're thinking of having her move into where you live. Well, she has been already, right? >> Okay. But also it's like you know, it's something that I personally feel should be put in place. Okay. In writing.

Yes. What is that What is that entail?

I've I've not uh Interestingly enough, I've not heard of one of those. >> So is it just a contract that she'll pay X amount of rent?

No, not even that. But just in case, you know, uh we break up or something a um just to make sure that I'm protected from my assets and everything like that.

Especially if she'll be living with me. Why would your assets be in trouble or in under threat if she's living with you? >> Is it different in Canada?

Yes, a little bit different in Canada, yeah. >> Oh, well enlighten us.

Um well, you know, if somebody does live with you for uh an extended period of time, they might be able to take some of your assets, right? >> Well, what kind of assets? Like you know, like your house. Oh, like split it split >> divide up something like that.

>> How long? Like after 10 years? Is it like a common law thing?

>> that. Yeah, common it basically becomes common law. Yeah, but how long?

Uh after like 3 4 years, I do believe.

>> Wow. Okay. There's there's a possibility of it, right? Yeah, sure.

>> still I I I don't know. People are have different opinions on it, right? Just I want to make sure that How long?

>> it's not I wouldn't do it. I I'm just going to tell you my opinion. I would not live with somebody for 3 years or whatever like whatever the Canadian law is. Like If if if I wasn't interested in marrying them, I sure as heck would not live with them in in that period of time and then you're just it's it's just like you're on the high wire without a safety net.

Like I so so relationally

I need to make my decision prior to that. How long have you been together?

Uh about the time about that time. You guys have been together 3 4 years? And she's been living with you that entire time? Yes. Oh, so you're feeling it creep up.

You're like, "Wait a minute. Let me get my stuff in writing just in case." Well, I got Yeah, it's been a concern.

>> Well, wait a second. >> But even even still, right?

No, hold on. Wrong. This is all so foreign to me. Forgive my American brain, but also I'm a bit old-fashioned. So, here do you want to marry this girl? Yes or no?

>> Yes. Yes. Then put a ring on it. Now.

What's stopping you? >> What are we What are we waiting on? Yeah, tell us what's stopping you. >> let me Can I say this really quick? You sound like a guy who's not sure he wants

to marry you. Because the phone call was, "Hey guys, uh should I get a cohabitation agreement with this woman who's been living with me because Canadian law says if she lives with me as long as she has right now, if we break up, she gets some of my assets and I want to protect my assets." Nowhere in there did I hear a guy who wants to to to spend the rest of his life with this woman.

Mhm. Well >> Oh, no, hold on. This we're getting somewhere. What does that mhm mean?

Oh, just I just listening to the opinion, right? >> Do you not see my Do you not see how it comes across? Yes, sir. I have a a something I want to add though.

What do you do for a living?

Uh I'm I'm in the banking construction.

Interesting. So, I'm trying to find out if you're just a guy who's interested in details and not really emotion. Like I'm like if this guy is an accountant, I get it cuz he's just calculating just thinking all You know what I'm saying? I think it's I think out of nine out of 10 I don't think it's a reflection of what I do.

>> I Yeah. Um I think nine out of 10 women I wish I could poll a bunch of women on this very call. >> There's women out in the in the in the audience.

No. >> They all shook their heads. >> said no. Yeah. So, here's my point. I'm

going to shake my head too just to add to the fire. >> So, here's my point. I'm actually trying to save you.

Oh. I don't think you want to marry this girl. Okay.

And if you do, just go ahead and marry her. We might We might be totally wrong.

[laughter] >> could be wrong. I'm just saying you Your

question was about a cohabitation agreement. >> Yeah. Not Has she >> Should we have separate finances when we marry? You didn't ask us about that. Has

she asked about marriage?

Oh, yes, we talked about it. What'd she say? Oh. 100% right. It's It is the plan.

When? Do you guys have kind of a horizon? Not yet. Okay, but she definitely wants to marry you and you definitely want to marry her. Yes. What's What do you think stopping you? Is it like a money thing?

Is it We want to pay off debt or we want to do this?

Honestly, I There's some days that I can't give that answer. You know, maybe I should have thought about that a little bit more before calling in. I Maybe. I mean, it's something It's food for thought. We're not Hey, we're not judging you. We're not It's just It really is a something I think we uncovered something that

does require a little bit more thought.

We You thought you were calling for one thing and you got another. Yes, let me say this. In the meantime, you should do some sort of agreement if if that's what you feel like is going to cover you. Yeah, we should circle back.

That is the goofiest law I've ever heard. Don't mind saying it, but it is the law of the land. So, yeah, I would get something to protect your your assets pretty quickly. Although, given the what I've heard today, I don't know that that's not going to create a bunch of tension.

It might. It has. Oh.

Ryan, it keeps getting >> [laughter] >> I felt like maybe I was the crazy one.

And you're not crazy, Ryan, but I'm sitting there going now you've got to bring up a cohabitation agreement with her to protect your assets after having talked marriage.

Are you at least engaged?

>> It's It's always been a thing that I've wanted though just like not to say, but I just, you know, I've worked hard for, you know, what I have, I believe, right? So, and

But have you at least proposed? It's one thing to get married, but have you even propo- Oh, Ryan. That's the only thing he's been certain about on this entire call. Was that Did you hear that answer?

Now, what's No. Now, what's I could understand like I'm not ready to to actually do the ceremony, but what's kept you from proposing? He doesn't know. >> Just the timing of everything, I feel. I know and you know, you can't put anything like and say hey, you know, it's it's never the perfect time. It's so it could always be the perfect time. >> Yeah, how about tonight? 7:00 on the dot

and you drop DOWN ON ONE KNEE. [laughter] DO YOU HEAR THAT ANSWER? He's laughing.

>> get him a brown bag on the other end of that call. He is hyperventilating.

You want to know what I would do if I were in your shoes, Ryan? I'm going to tell you if I were if I turned into you today, I would call up my counselor,

Vanessa, and I would say, "Help me out.

I just talked to these folks and they really are making me think, why am I not proposing? Why am I not getting married?

What's going on? I thought it was a money thing. I think maybe I just don't know. Help me help me unpack this." Yeah, Ryan. Sure. It's the best thing you've heard this entire call. I'm having a lot of fun, but listen, I am concerned. If I

could play older brother, if you were my younger brother, I'd go, "Hey man, I don't want you committing yet like on anything. Cohabitation agreement or anything because there's something that's catching you and it doesn't mean it's bad. Doesn't mean there's something wrong with you, but I think the advice Jay just gave you, I'm going to endorse that 100%. Let's [snorts] get with a therapist and just straight up lay it out in a safe environment and see if they and you can figure out what is holding you up." Mhm.

Okay. Nothing wrong with you. Yeah, yeah, listen. No shame no shade kind of coming at you, but my man, I know you didn't call for this, but woo, I don't want you to be in any kind of agreement, marriage or cohabitation, and be regretting it.

Okay? And worried about my money and all these things. We're rooting for you.

Call us back and tell us what happened.

>> Yeah, I'd love to hear the other side of the story. Wow. Man.

Hey. It be like that sometimes, Ken.

>> And it's okay. I would rather have someone press pause on a relationship like this. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Woo.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, George Kamel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you.

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>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 12:11.

No discipline [music] seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. >> [music] >> Our quote of the day, Bonnie Pruden.

You can't turn back the clock, but you can wind it up again.

Renee is up in Columbia, South Carolina.

Renee, how can we help?

Hey there, how are you guys? >> Oh, we're having fun. You bet. What's going on with you?

So, [snorts] I'm 57 and I was just let go of from my sales job right before Christmas. I'd only been there 5 months. Oh, I know. I've never been fired before. Oh, man. Well, welcome to the club. I've done it twice and you know, it's no fun,

but there is life on the other side.

Well, that's where I am. I'm trying to decide what to do. Um you know, I don't

not sure I want to remain in sales and I'm looking to I look for job full-time.

Um do I look part Do I look for a job and work part-time? Or do I invest in my side hustle and grow that because then no one can ever fire me again. Well, actually customers can fire you. It's amazing how many calls we take. So, I do want to set the record straight on that because it's a healthy mindset.

Um because here's the answer, Renee. I want you running to something, not away from something. So, couple quick questions. I want Jay to weigh in too. So, rapid fire for a moment here.

Um what is the side hustle?

So, we own a photo booth company. Um we've only been in this area for a year and we haven't started it, but it was a side hustle we did in our previous state that we lived in. Okay, and based on that track record, what do you think uh revenue could be that you could generate once you get it up and going?

I mean, it it just depends. It would probably start small. I think I mean, we did very little with it and we made about 20,000. I mean, we did We didn't even try. Um and it would be very little at first, but as we got up, we could invest in more equipment, have more booths.

Um and um go from there and just see how big we can get it. All right, to our best here. Let's try to do apples to apples. I know it was a different state, different place. Um how how many hours I mean, would you be able to put in more hours of your time

than you did previously that generated the 20,000?

Oh, yeah. It was I mean, I didn't put hardly anything into it. I'd be able to work it full-time. Okay. All right, next question. You said we. Are you in a

double income family?

Yeah, that that's one of the things. We are uh, financially stable. We've you know, we did the baby steps a long time ago. No debt except for the house.

But I grew up with financial insecurity and I can't get that scared person out of my head. I feel like I have to make money. >> Okay. Well, but let's Okay, then let's just sit there for a second. Uh, so are we talking about your husband here? Is that the other income? Okay, how what does he make? Um, somewhere between depending on bonus 230 to 275 a year. And you have no debt.

Um, just a house.

Oh good heavens, Renee. You really You really did [laughter] grow up in a tough situation. I don't even need to ask.

Your husband makes $230,000 and you're worried about a sales job and you have no debt. I'm guessing what's your retirement situation?

Um, we've got um, about 900 in a 401k

and another 100 in investments and 50 something in a money market and then Set yourself free and go try the photo booth thing. Have some fun with that for crying out loud.

>> It is a very fun business. Then go have fun at 57 years young.

You don't need income. You don't need your income. True or false?

Uh, no. It was gravy. So we may have to go out to dinner less or maybe not take a big vacation or um, you know, because

we we have to cut back. >> queen on $230,000 and no debt, Jade. Are

we worried about vacations?

>> Not really. No. Of course we're not. I

think you'll be fine. So >> [laughter] >> How do I get that girl out of my head though? How do I >> You need to You need to tell her the truth a lot. Don't ignore her. Just remind her all the time. That's a good question. >> Remind her all the time. Yeah, because I I truthfully that's where my heart lies and I feel like there's a lot of things pointing into building up this business.

Um, but I just for something about that guaranteed salary that just which I it wasn't a ton, but um, you know, it's just making that decision, but I I'm scared. >> those five months did that job suck the soul right out of your body? Uh,

quite a bit. Quite a bit. >> a feeling. I had a feeling, Renee.

So So I think that I think Jay just said something so incredibly wise. So I'm

actually Can I piggyback off what you said? I feel like I'm getting an assist here. You're assisting me.

You have to tell yourself the truth often and Mhm. I feel like in this call

a minute ago when I walked you through some questions and then we got to the truth of $230,000 and no debt and when I and Jade kind of tag team reminded you of your financial situation, you didn't have any anxiety about money in those moments, did you?

No. So it might be as simple as

some fun like journal or legal pad or

something on your phone, a note on your phone and when you start to feel that old voice of uh, insecurity around money

Um.

you just go back and you look at your numbers. Pull up your investment dashboard. Well, we got 900 and some thousand here. We got 100,000 here. In seven years that's going to be 1.8. You know, and just do a refresh.

Can Can Can I tell you >> from you. I love that advice.

>> Can I tell you a true story, Renee?

>> love it. Sure.

I I had gone through a period where I was dissatisfied.

And the for reasons that it doesn't matter, but I was complaining a lot.

And I made a deal with myself. I said for as much as I complain, I have to say just as much that I'm grateful for and thankful for. And when I did that, it made me realize how much I was complaining >> [laughter] >> cuz I had to say the same thing right back. I think if you make a deal with yourself and you say for each time mentally that I catch myself replaying

whatever the story is that you replay about, you know, not having enough or whatever that fear thought that you have. If you make a deal with yourself and say every time I do this, I'm also going to come back and say, we have 900,000 in our account. My husband makes 275,000. We paid off all of our debt.

Our mortgage is almost right? And combat it. Don't let it win, you know, uh, thoughts and emotions, they're like waves. We can't stop them from coming in, but we get to choose which one we surf, right? You've heard that. It's the same thing. You get to choose and and awareness is key. You know that it's happening. So now it's about capturing it in the moment and going, all right.

That came. I can't stop it from happening, but what I can remind myself is what's true and replace it and dwell on that for a while and spend just as much time if not more dwelling on that than the thought that initially came in and tried to I love that. I got an idea, Jade.

>> What? All right, Renee. Round figures.

I'm not going to hold you to this. This is a fun exercise. You ready?

Mhm.

Based on how many times you and the hubs go out to dinner in 12 months and a nice vacation.

What is that number all in?

Um, maybe 20,000.

And can you recall what you told me you made on the photo booth business that you did nothing with in a previous season of your life? Could you tell me what the number was?

About 20,000. Bingo. What's his name again? >> we launch, we relaunch with new energy

uh, lessons learned and we say to hubs

I'm going to launch the photo booth business and every penny above and beyond just the expenses of the business goes to vacation and dinners. >> love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love that. I'm pretty excited about that idea, Renee. I'll be honest with you. >> That's That's motivating, too.

>> to me while you were talking. I'm like, wait a second. And I didn't know by the way that it was going to match up to 20 and 20, but I thought I thought that the photo booth revenue will easily cover your dinners and your nice vacation you're so worried about.

>> [clears throat] >> Yeah, I'm See, that's why I called you guys cuz I knew you could help me work through this. I'm literally sitting here with my budget in front of me and I literally have asked him probably four times a week, how much do we have? What's in our accounts?

Leave that man alone. Would you leave Would you leave him alone, please and just get [laughter] yourself your own dashboard and your own exercise like Jade just gave you and go launch that business. Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm going to do that. Thank you. I mean, I really appreciate I feel so much lighter now. >> Good. That's what we like. We like it.

We like people to call in heavy and float off the phone. >> Float away. I love it. Good job, Ken.

Well, I didn't I Listen, you That was all you. You just threw me a really nice lob pass.

But how funny that How funny that the numbers matched up.

>> I know. >> That made me feel really happy. >> a nice trip to Bora Bora. >> take the rest of the day off after that.

I'm never going to be that lucky again.

>> [laughter] >> Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's the walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 129. Quit Blaming Your Past And Take Control Of Your Money | October 8, 2025


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:04:37 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, host of the breakaway hit on Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat. He is my

co-host today. Open Phones 88255225.

So you guys watching Front Row Seat and pulling it up. Uh uh Ken, you did a really cool recording yesterday. They're not going to want to miss. My my good friend Willie was here.

>> Willie Robertson uh of Duck Dynasty fame

uh in town. It was so fun. Uh he's in town to hang with you apparently.

>> Yeah, we had dinner with Pat last night.

>> That's right. So fun.

>> I I just He He's just He's become a close friend over the last several years. But but he I I think on Front Row Seat, you guys are going to be uh >> very entertaining. >> Entertaining.

Fun story. >> Anything you have to do with Willie is always entertaining. Dinner with Willie is entertaining. >> I surprised him with a photo.

Uh that's all we'll say. gave him an envelope, told him to open it, and we legitimately, we did some great research. He was delighted and surprised. Let's put it this way, it was from Willy's athletic past.

And what people don't realize uh is that Willie is a sneaky good athlete according to his brother Jace. And uh you know, Willie can hit the cover off a golf ball, can knock it a mile, >> 300 yard drives. It's nuts. Yeah, it's nuts.

Yeah, >> because I mean usually guys wearing camo don't hit a golf ball that far, but just what do I know? But he's he can he's serious. So, >> and uh we bit competitive too. Little little chirp little chirpy on the golf course. >> I imagine he >> little chirpy >> can can get under somebody's skin. I hit the ground on a warm-up swing and he goes, "Hey, Ramsey 811 call for you dig." >> So, ouch it's four and a half hours of

that. I'm just saying. So, there you go.

Hey, it's going to be great. Check it out. Willie Robinson coming up in the next few weeks. It'll drop on a front row seat recorded yesterday. Joe is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Hi Joe. How are you? >> Hey, I'm doing well, guys. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, um, recently,

um, my girlfriend and I have been talking about getting married. Um, and I

had always known that there was a discrepancy between me having some debt and her having some money. And uh I've always been trying to postpone getting married because I was trying to take care of the things on my end. And um so

recently uh I really got into you guys

and started digging into the numbers and found out what I really owed. Kind of spooked me a little bit. Wasn't quite as uh as a lot more than I thought it was.

>> How much? >> Um uh $230,000

>> on what, dude?

>> Uh most of it is in student loans. Um how much? Um >> uh you got 180 of it in student loans.

>> You a doctor or a lawyer?

>> I was soon to be a doctor but not uh not

a medical one. So uh worked through an MBA and a PhD uh business PhD because I wanted to go and teach um >> okay >> and and coach uh coach golf in college.

So >> okay. Um, so now we're in this situation

and um, we're starting to think about it more and she's been asking me a lot of questions about I used to be a financial advisor. She she's been asking me a lot of questions about stuff she should invest in and I just told her like she needs to look into uh, the things that you guys have. I suggested that she go and talk to uh, um, you know, to somebody else. Things have changed, laws have changed, and obviously I haven't managed money as well as I would have uh would would like before I start giving people advice.

>> Uh it's a it's a car. Uh a little bit of credit cards. Um >> how much do you owe on the car?

>> The car I owe 34,000 on.

>> Okay. And what do you do for a living?

You're working on your PhD and that's your job now?

>> No, no, I work in uh in retail. I manage

a bunch of retail stores. >> And what's your income?

>> Uh 120 is my salary.

>> Okay. So, you've been asleep at the wheel for quite a while and just in the last few weeks woke up.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. I'm just making sure I'm getting the full picture here. Okay, cool.

>> Yeah. And so, she's in uh she's in a really good spot. Um I've never really known what she's had. I've never really been interested in it, but since she's been asking me all these questions lately, she was asking some questions about Roth versus um you know, just a

regular 401k. And we've been talking through that stuff and one day she was looking through some stuff and I um you know, she was like, "Well, this is what I have invested in this and that." And I was like, "Wow, this is uh it's really cool. You put yourself in a good position." Um I mean, she's got a net worth of about a million dollars and um she's not not quite 40

yet. Um, and she's making, you know, about 160 uh a year as well. So, we've been

talking and I just was like, "Hey, you know, like what do you want to do about this?" Because I don't I hope that we're together forever. I don't ever want to put her in a bad position. I love the woman. I'm just trying to figure out like should we consider if we do get married at prenup or should I just should we wait until I get this debt paid off?

That's was kind of what my question is. I'm trying to figure out what's the best thing to do to protect her. Um, >> what's her what's her take?

>> Well, I mean, we just we just started talking about this. Like, >> yeah, but what did she say?

>> Um, well, she just said she was like, I I understand that it it may take you a

little while to be able to pay this stuff off. Um, and so if it takes a

while and we have to wait, then that's fine. But that's really was her whole her whole thing on that. just said like, "Do you want to wait until you know I get this paid off or do you want to try to do it a separate way?" You know, I I like asked her like, "Is should we consider potentially doing get a prenup?" And she's like, "Well, I never really considered that. I never even thought of it before." And I'm like, "I know." And again, I hope it it works out, but if some crazy reason it doesn't, I would hate for like, you know, to feel like I'm supposed to get half of your stuff when I'm coming in with nothing and you're coming in with a lot.

So, >> yeah. Um, we're going to >> richer for poorer, in sickness and in health.

next 50 years, you're going to share

assets and liabilities for the next 50 years. If you're going to have a high quality marriage and a high probability of building wealth. Now, I'm assuming as a professor with a PhD, when when will you complete your PhD?

>> I'll have another year. probably a year, not a well, it depends on how long the dissertation takes, but probably about a year and a half left. >> Okay. And you'll be making at least what you're making now as a college professor after that, right?

>> Certainly. And I have flexibility within my schedule that I thought I'd be able to actually do both. Um because there's a lot of options online to be able to to teach courses that way. >> So your income could go up substantially then. >> Certainly. >> At that point, >> I expect it to go up at least 100.

>> All right. We have never told in the 30 years plus we've been on the air told someone to not have a baby because of debt or to not get married because of debt. We have told people to not get married if you can't get aligned on how

we feel about life, careers, saving,

debt, and so forth. And so, um, the if

I'm her, what scares me more than the debt is that you just now woke up.

>> Yeah. >> And you were asleep. That scares me more than the debt. If you told me, I've been scratching and clawing at this and beating on it for 7 months and I'm getting there and I've already paid off 50,000. I'm very aware, problem aware, and the problems in my mirror. Um, I I'd

be a lot more comfortable if I'm her and no prenup is needed. Um, but a prenup's

not going to help in this case. There's not enough differences to do it. So, I think when you guys get comfortable with each other's values and where you're going enough to get married, after you get back from the honeymoon, she writes checks and we pay off all your debt. But your debt should be largely gone by then because it's going to take a little while for you to prove to her that you're awake.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. So, we actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like, I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies.

It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza.

>> It really is. So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Jean is in Savannah, Georgia. Hi, Jean. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Okay, so this is a little bit of a crazy story, but I'll try to make it as easy to follow. Um, 10 years ago, my

father-in-law passed away. Um, we he

didn't have a will, but we were able to sell his property with an affidavit of

airship and a deed without warranty. So,

we sold the house to an old family friend. Um, this married couple in the

last 10 years has divorced, the wife moved on, the husband stayed in the house, he passed away early last year.

Um, Friday night we all started receiving phone calls that this property was about to be foreclosed on for unpaid

property taxes and we all wondered what that had to do with us. Well, they never filed the deed. So, the house is still technically under my father-in-law's name.

So, we've tracked down the ex-wife. She

doesn't want anything to do with the property. Um, she's happy to sign the property over to my husband and my sister-in-law, the only two kids of my father-in-law. Um, and same thing with my mother-in-law. They were divorced.

She doesn't want anything to do with the house. So, everybody's on board, but it just goes to my husband and my sister-in-law. So, we are planning on

selling the property and splitting the proceeds. But where the issue comes in

is when they were in high school, they

had a friend who liked to hang out at their house more than his own house. So they started calling him brother. Well,

20 years ago, my husband went into the Marine Corps. We lent him money. Um he

never paid us back and he cut us off

because he didn't pay us back. So he cut us off. Uh my husband was deploying. He was trying to reach out to him. He would never answer his calls. So we haven't had any relationship with him until 10 years ago when my father-in-law died.

And then he my sister-in-law, my

mother-in-law decided that he would get

a cut of the house when we sold it

because he's a quote unquote brother.

Well, we still haven't talked to him in 10 years. >> Did he get a cut the first time it sold?

Yes, he did.

>> Okay. >> So, they split it four ways. Okay.

>> Um, so now everything legally is just in

my husband and my sister-in-law's names because they're the only kids. So, everyone's on board. We're selling it.

Um, it's gone up in value

three and a half times because it's in Dallas County. Um, so it's worth

anywhere from $75 to $100,000 now just

for the land. Um, so my sister-in-law

is thinking we're going to split this three ways. >> No, we're not >> with the quote unquote brother.

>> No, we're not. >> And that's how my Yeah. That's how my husband feels. >> Yeah. No, we're not. >> And I don't know when we have this conversation with her. >> I We don't Your your husband does. It's his sister, not yours. Right. He sits down with her and says, "I'm not doing this. He stiffed me. He's not a brother.

He's not in this deal. He already got more than he deserved with the first round. No, I'm not splitting with him."

And if you don't like that, kiss my butt. I am not splitting with him.

>> And I know you're right. And I knew you were going to say that. And that's what everyone else has said. I think I'm the

one handling everything. Like I said, my husband is a >> No, you're not handling this. He's handling his sister, not you.

>> Oh, yeah. I know. I mean, just with the the paperwork side and finding out what they needed to do and then she's just saying, "You're so great. You're so wonderful. I'm so blessed by you." And

so, it's just eating me up knowing >> it doesn't need to eat you up. You haven't done anything. There's nothing to eat up.

>> This is an unreasonable crazy

>> but request and we're not doing it.

It's ridiculous. It was ridiculous it was done the first time. And what's really ridiculous is that y'all are ending up with this property again. And would you for God's sakes have a lawyer close the deal this time so that it's done right?

>> Y'all people you people suck at business, don't you? I mean, this is horrible. >> No, we had a lawyer.

>> No. If you're if you had a lawyer, he should be in jail for m for malpractice.

How do you do How do you years later discover a deed is not recorded?

>> Come on. >> Angry. >> Yeah. This is crazy. So, we have to do this properly this time. I don't want to ever see this piece of property again.

It needs to go away >> because your name or your husband's name is in the paper right now for unpaid property taxes.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. How in the world?

That's the most I've done thousands of real estate transactions. I've never heard one that was this bad. This sucks.

Yeah, you guys really I mean how and you and the irony is you end up back with it. And I'm not sure how many different signatures you've got to get from God

who has equity of title in this is Georgia. Yeah. You need a really good

lawyer and you need somebody that's ready to write title insurance on this process this time so that we are ensuring that this title is properly transferred. Y'all y'all are but honey

you you don't your your husband just simply sits down with sister and says no I'm not you know boychild got all he's going to get. >> It's like Eddie Haskell gone arai.

There's a whole generation of people have no idea what I'm talking about. Look that up. But the the fact that he got money the first time around to me is absolutely ludicrous. Just because he enjoyed spending time over there and they felt bad for this guy.

There's a backstory that we're not aware of. We didn't have time to get to. I'm guaranteeing it. But at this point, her husband is expecting you to say that you did the DNA and ancestry and found out he was actually a brother.

>> Right. But this is just this is this is like some guy who just hung around like a bad penny. >> Yeah. I I got a feeling I got a feeling mama knows something she ain't saying, but I may be wrong.

Yeah. Oh, there's a This is just wicked straight. >> This could be like a Lifetime miniseries. >> Yeah.

Yeah.

I can tell you that.

>> That's the truth.

>> Great. Crate. >> Wow. >> So, yeah. Moral of the story is um bad

deals have a high rate of resurrection.

>> Mhm. >> They do. When you do something that's a bad idea, it does not go away.

>> Yeah. it comes back again. It's like a bad penny, so to speak. >> All right.

I have a follow-up question because I think this affects a lot of people. Not this situation, but I think the fear of confrontation, Dave, is what's underneath this whole deal besides all the bad business. And and you and I, it's very clear for us. It's very black and white.

We know exactly what we would say, but we we you know, we eat confrontation for breakfast. How would you coach somebody uh like this husband? He's sitting here and he's not getting it.

gone for a decade. What would you say to somebody who has a really hard time stepping into this confrontation? How would you coach him?

>> It's a great question. I um here, you

know, when I first started our business, I thought as a southern Christian guy

that I was supposed to be nice to everybody. And what by how that ended up translating was is I was nice to people when I shouldn't have been. And and so I didn't tell them the truth. You know, like you're not doing your job well. And so I'm frustrated. The poor guy doesn't even know he's not doing his job well.

And so we changed it around here. To be unclear is to be unkind. If you work for

Ramsey, we're going to be real clear with you. We're not going to be mean.

We're not going to cuss and yell and scream and throw stuff at you, but if something's going on, we're going to tell you.

To be unclear is ultimately to be unkind

because there's a whole bottled up resentment at mom and sister for the first time Goober got money.

And so you've been unkind to everybody

else in the family by not standing up and being clear that this is wrong.

>> Yeah. And so when you stand on principle and you tell the truth kindly, gently,

forcefully, boldly, there's a cleanliness to it. And the way you people have been conflict avoiding has created a tangled

barrel of fish hooks. And you don't want to live in a barrel of fish hooks. You want to live in a clean land, a land of cleanliness. And conflict, positive good

conflict will bring that for you.

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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I have awesome friends. I got a great faith. And I have an amazing wife and family. I've also got two PhDs worth of information about how to be well. And yet, the times that I've spent with great therapists over the years have made all the difference for me. The right therapists can change everything about your mental, emotional, and relational health. And this month, my friends at BetterHelp are shining the spotlight on the therapists, the people who truly make the world a better place.

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The allnew Every Dollar is here, and it's way more than just a world-class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features in the new version to help you make faster progress with your money on the Ramsay plan. We're not only going to help you do a budget, we're going to help you do the budget in such a way that you apply and work the baby steps

and work the whole Ramsay plan. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. Start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the app store or at Google Play. Elizabeth is in Virginia Beach. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you?

>> I'm good. I'm good. How are you guys?

Thank you Dave and Ken for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Um, so for a little background, I'm currently a stay-at-home mom. I work a couple times a month and my husband's in the military. Um, we currently have our mortgage and a car loan. The car loan is

$12,000 and the interest rate on that is 1.6.

Um, we have a $12,000 emergency fund and

after listening to your show pretty religiously over the last only few weeks, but um we thought perhaps we

should be taking that 11,000 from our emergency fund to pay off our car.

However, with the current um government shutdown, we are just wondering if we should maybe put a pause on that route until we're absolutely sure he's going to get paid. Um, >> well, he's going to get paid and he'll get paid all the way through. It's just a matter of when.

>> Yeah. So, when they reopen, they'll they'll cover all the back pay. They're not going to skip a check. But right now, you're not getting anything. Correct.

>> Yeah. We just have I'm working a couple times a month, so we still have a little bit coming in, but um we just wanted to We don't want to drain our emergency fund. >> No, you're you're not working the baby steps right now. You're in the middle of a storm. you push pause on everything and pile cash up >> and and eat and keep the lights on and don't buy anything.

>> Okay? >> And just hold hold on until the storm goes by. Now, when the storm goes by, you push play, which that day you would take all but a thousand out of your emergency fund, apply it to the car, and start working your baby steps, right?

>> Okay. >> But only only after he starts getting his pay.

>> Yeah. But we were thinking like before the shutdown happened, we were thinking like should we do the 11,000 and pay it off or should we just throw like you know extra payments from >> No, you should pay it off budgeting.

>> Okay. >> But not right now. Not until he gets paid. But once he's getting paid, you need to work the baby steps the way we talk about.

>> Okay. >> They're not going to shut it down again for a while once they open it up. So you're going to be okay.

>> Okay. I love to hear it.

>> Well, I mean, they can't. It's not how it works. So, they're not going to kick the can down the road for 4 days. It's going to be months or years or whatever.

>> So, >> okay. >> Yeah. So, yeah, but for right now, I would push pause. Anytime folks are facing a storm, you're you you know, you push pause and you pile cash up to get ready for the storm, whatever the storm is.

And then when the storm subsides and get the other side of the sun comes out, push play again. You drain all that cash that you've stacked up. Throw it at your smallest to largest debt in that order and get going again and get the whole thing moving.

from government employees who have worked our system for years >> and uh they're smiling.

They're saying, "I am not affected by

not getting a paycheck for a week or two because I have plenty of money and I have no debt." >> Yeah, it's it's true. I mean, uh this is why you really have an emergency fund here. This is what we'd call a big big emergency when you have maybe a two week or a month. just for historical context to calm a lot of people because I know a lot of people look to us for financial advice in the midst of the headlines and

this is right out of the headlines before we came on today uh in a press

conference uh Trump did say he threw it out there maybe we don't pay back pay so

this has been said by the president so people start getting real uptight and I understand it's your paycheck um but this is why the 3 to six months emergency fund is so vitally important but to give historical context since uh

1981 there have been four major government shutdowns. The longest one in 2019 uh for just over a month. So most of the

time this is all political posturing

both parties. I'm not taking a position so that way nobody needs to get mad.

What happens is they're leveraging and this is a bit of a poker contest as to who gets what in this next continuing resolution bill. So hang in there. Uh

historically, Dave, we've never seen one longer than a month. Uh we'll see where it goes.

>> And that was under the cap under Captain Bluff, who's in the office now. I mean, he will bluff anything. >> He'll look at a rock and bluff it. I never saw anything like it.

So, >> um >> that's a great point. >> I mean, he's just unbelievable. But yeah, so, you know, don't don't play chicken with this guy, right? >> He'll run over you.

>> So, um whether you agree with him or not, I mean, this is this is the pattern. True. He's he's not a real good negotiator. He's really good at running over things and uh calling it negotiating.

>> Yeah, that's exactly right. So, so hang in there. Don't get too hung up on the headlines.

And they're the ultimate both sides of the aisle. They are all about preserving themselves. So once the public gets hot enough or the issue becomes too much of a uh of a toxic type thing for their

base, then they start to cave in. So I've just seen too many of these. Don't freak out. Just take it from me on this one. Don't freak out. >> Yeah. Never. I mean, you know, >> control what you can control is what we've been teaching. >> Always control the controllables. And uh when you're facing drama or trauma, facts are your friends. What are the facts? The facts are there's only been a handful of these ever uh since 1981. And

um that's a long time.

>> Um like what 50 years now, right? And so

um the last 50 years, four or five times. And one time under this same president in 2019, it stayed down for an

entire month, which is un that was unprecedented at the time. Um, but >> and the sad thing about this is Dave is it affects our good men and women in the military, a lot of great federal employees. You you hate it for our federal employees. >> But I challenge any of you over the next week to find something that has negatively affected your life.

If you're not in that camp, because I'm not minimizing it, but those of us who don't draw a paycheck from the federal government, it's hard to find evidence that it's been shut down. Yeah.

True. True. Uh Craig's in San Antonio.

Hi, Craig. How are you?

>> I'm doing great. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Well, I have two inherited retirement

accounts. Um I've had them for about two years now.

All my research and discussions with the financial institutions that they're with

show that I have to withdraw the money in 10 years and that it's basically a taxable event every time. And I'm trying to figure out how to minimize the tax hit on this. I was hoping there'd be something easy like converting it to an IRA of my own or maybe putting it in my

daughter's 529, but nope.

>> As far as I can tell, it's just all taxable. the whole way.

>> You have gotten correct information, sir.

>> Okay. >> The only thing that could The only thing it could have been done is if it was converted to a Roth before the person died, >> right? It's a traditional >> and it's a traditional. That's why you're under the Biden Secure Act, >> passed under Joe Biden, and the Secure Act calls for it to be liquidated within 10 years. >> And so, I mean, you could take out a tenth a year and maybe not have a tax back bracket creep. Um, what's it invested in?

It's about 2/3 in a growth fund, stocks,

uh, and the rest of it is in a bond

fund, and then an S&P 500 fund.

>> How much is in there?

>> About 550.

>> Okay. It's a lot. Well, it's a blessing to get that. It's sad. It's all taxable, but it is. And so, um,

who who left it to you? Your dad or mom or somebody? >> My father. Yes.

So, um, you're you're really not paying your taxes. You're paying the taxes that he had never paid yet, >> right? >> That's all it is. So, he that money's never been taxed because it was put in pre-tax and it's grown without tax on it until you withdraw it and you get the benefit of withdrawing it.

So, um, what I would do is run some numbers with your Smart Investor Pro. Go to ramseolutions.com and click on Smart Vster and find a Smart Vster Pro in your area. sit down and go, "Okay, I want to get this into good mutual funds and I want a uh withdrawal system. Do I need to do it over 10 years or can I just do it all at once and get it over with?

Um, how much is it?

it is all ordinary income. So it'll just bracket creep.

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>> Today's question comes from Tanner in South Carolina. My wife of seven years and I disagree on how my business should be run. I own a photography and videography company that I've had for 10 years. I've built this business from the ground up and it's my baby.

My wife believes that it's our business now that we are married and that she should be able to make decisions on whether I can book a certain job or not or how I communicate with my customers. She's also uh having an opinion on how much I charge my customers and how I process the final product. I'm glad to work with her on a number of jobs that I book which impacts our time together. But I draw the line on how I run my business daytoday.

I'm sorry. I had I I had to get through that without laughing. No, you're not wrong. And it was very hard for me to get through that, Dave. Uh, no, you're not wrong.

Uh, wanting to run the business you built. I mean, now obviously your wife, she she has an opinion. I think she's entitled to her opinion. Uh, but that doesn't mean that her opinion should sway the way you run the business if you guys didn't enter into this business together.

Uh again, a say on your personal finances and all that 100%. But in this situation, uh I don't know why I'm laughing. I feel bad for you. This is a tough situation.

>> Sounds like she's a handful. What it sounds like. >> Yeah, this is tricky.

>> Yeah. No, here here's how you can parse it out. This will help you. There's a lot of really good data and academic

teaching on small business. One of the

fathers or grandfathers of that space is a guy named John Ward who wrote a little book called Family Business. In the little book, he has a vin diagram with three circles, owner, family, and worker or team member and they

overlap the three circles of vin diagram, a classic vin diagram, right?

And so someone can be an owner, someone

can be a family member, someone can be a team member, and someone can be all three or two of those things. You are all three. She is not.

She's one of the owners and she's a

family member, but she is not a team member.

Okay? Now, here's how that works. In other words, she speaks into the business as a spouse.

because she doesn't work there,

which is not operational control.

Now, if you're a wise man from a standpoint of running a business and from a standpoint of being married, you will listen to her counsel and sometimes take it.

Uh, Proverbs 31 says, "Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. the heart of her husband safely trusts her and he will have no lack of gain. Sharon Ramsay has some opinions about things that we do at Ramsay, but she does not tell us where to order copier paper

and she does not develop marketing strategy and she does not enter her

discussion into pricing unless I ask her about pricing on, oh, we're getting ready to take the price up on these books because everybody else has.

Oh, yeah. Well, we probably ought to do that. But that's my wife speaking into

my business. It is not a member of the

team that is down here working every day speaking into the operations. She has gotten confused.

She has taken more ground than she has been given.

Okay. So unless she comes down there and gets on the payroll and becomes the CEO

or the COO or something else, at that

point she would be all three things and she would be rightly speaking into the day-to-day operations of the business.

But otherwise, she's just your spouse talking to her spouse and saying, "Hey, if I were you, here's how I would do it." And I think this is wise,

>> but um I think she's gotten confused about her place on this. And it's not a woman's place. It's a man's place. Either one. It could be roles could be reversed. You should talk to your husband. Ladies, if you're running a business and get their input on some things, but they don't need to come down there and talk about which customers we

take or so forth, unless you ask them. I

mean, if I'm having a a customer that's high maintenance or kind of got a, you know, problem or something, I may discuss that with my wife and she may go, "Well, I wouldn't put up with that crap." And I go, "You know what? That's kind of what I was thinking. And I'm not going to put up with it either. Okay.

And uh but but that's different than you're an idiot for running the business the way you've run it for 10 years and I'm going to come in here and show you how to do it.

>> Yeah. >> Out of control. >> I wish I knew more. I wish this was a phone call. What I would be attempting to do is find an area where she's super excited in the business and uh give her more input there. Uh maybe some a little

bit more control there as long as it's not affecting the dayto-day. >> No, I wouldn't. I know. I know you wouldn't. I'm saying I try to find it. I didn't say it. Absolutely. >> I would ask her input as my spouse and I

want to trust the >> input of my virtuous wife.

>> Therefore, I will have no lack of gain.

But part of being virtuous is not acting this way. >> Right. But she's given input on everything. >> I know. Like you're >> he laid out the entire business. she's given input on. >> Yeah, exactly. I mean, product design, pricing, which customers to take, what schedule to run, that's ops control.

That's a COO. That's not spousal control. And unless you work there, you shouldn't be speaking into that. >> Yeah. >> And you shouldn't assume that you're speaking into that. >> I think a marriage therapist might be in order on this. >> Oh, yeah. I think Yeah, I think you're probably right about that. We won't disagree on that one. >> Yeah. If you're a business owner or a leader and you got a question about running a business, including family business. As you can tell, I got lots of opinions and I'm right. Um, you can u

you can join us on the Entree Leadership podcast that I do where I take calls from small business people about business questions. 8449441070

or go to entreleership.com/ask and fill out the form. We'll call and make you a caller on the Entree podcast.

By the way, that particular question, >> if that were a real call with both of them with you, that'd be absolute YouTube gold. It would melt the internet.

>> Well, I've done plenty of them with family business. I can tell you had some really interesting ones over the years.

Jared is in New York City. Hey, Jared.

How are you?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, thanks for uh taking my call. Um,

so, uh, some last couple weeks have been

a little bit of a little bit of a whirlwind. So, my wife is pregnant early on in pregnancy. So, super excited about that. 14 weeks along.

>> Yay. >> Where it's been a bit of a whirlwind is um, they found something that um, as long as more tests to come, but you know, God willing, everything else is okay. Um it's something that when the baby's born may need some surgery now or is expected to need some surgery now nothing you know more than routine again as long as >> everything else is okay. Um so you know

I am you know grappling with that of course on mental side of things but you know >> yeah so my wife and I are though currently going through baby step two.

Um so there's a financial question on

how to plan. Um you know I was thinking like setting up a scing fund for kind of approximations of what it could potentially be while still paying off debt but you know just kind of not sure even where to start. We tell folks when they're having a baby to push pause and don't work on the baby steps and pile up cash. And when baby and mama come home,

we pay the bills and what's left we push play again and apply it to your debt snowball. >> So, I want you I want you to stop right now and just pile how big a pile of cash can you make. You can't make it one too big because you're going to put it all on debt if you don't use it on the baby, >> right? in in just a few I mean and now about seven months, right?

>> About Yeah. A >> little less. >> Yeah. And so six months, whatever. I mean, so yep. For six months, we're going to pile cash. Baby and mama come home, we pay whatever bills the insurance does not pay because you got co-ay and you got deductibles to meet, right? >> Mhm. >> And then whatever's left after the baby and mommy are home safe and sound. And

um then you're ready to go and you you

just push play again and you fly it right down through there and takes your breath away, Ken. >> Oh, you'll make it. Kids are expensive.

Just deal with it. But you'll make it. I promise. >> Just I Man, nothing scares you more than a baby. >> It's the truth.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, best-selling author, and host of Front Row Seat, a big hit on Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today.

Liz is in Nashville. Hi, Liz. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I was just calling because with me and my husband combined, we have a debt of 562,000.

Um, that includes our mortgage, but besides the mortgage, most of that debt is his. Um, we're following your baby steps. We've been following it all year, but it doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere. And if anything, right now we're back at the same amount that we had at the beginning of the year. Um, I

I I didn't I just don't know what to do.

I don't I don't know what to do anymore.

>> I'm sorry. How could you get back into debt? I'm When you're getting out of debt. I'm confused.

>> Exactly. Yeah. Well, we've had situations with our cards come up and then he he loves to use his credit cards

for anything that comes up. So, >> Okay. So, we're going into credit card debt while we're trying to get out of debt. So, he's not really trying to get out of debt. He's running business as usual and you're trying to get out of debt.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have $11,000 of that debt is mine that even even myself

right now, I I just I can't seem to get out of it. And I'm physically >> You said 562,000. How much of that is mortgage?

>> 500,000 is mortgage.

>> Okay. What's the 62,000?

>> Um, so 11,000 is mine and then the >> No, there's not a mine. You're married.

The $11,000 on what?

>> It's basically just credit cards.

>> Okay. So, you have $11,000 on credit cards. What else is out there out of the 62?

>> It It's all credit cards. We only have >> You have $62,000 in credit card debt.

>> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. >> You don't have a car payment? >> That's true.

>> Uh just one car payment. We have a We have $1,000 left on it.

>> Okay. You owe $1,000 on a car. And what do you owe on your student loans?

>> We have no student loans. I paid off my car. >> Okay. So, you basically have $62,000 in

credit card. $61,000 in credit card debt. And what's your household income?

>> Uh I make 82 and he makes 80.

>> Okay. So, $162,000

with a $500,000 mortgage. And And uh how

long ago were you zero credit cards

debt?

>> Well, I was at zero credit cards last year. Um he's always had credit card debt. >> How long have you been married?

>> We've been married for five years now.

>> Okay. So, when you're married, it's all

ours.

You understand me? Okay. So, you were never at zero cuz he's always had credit cards cuz we have had credit cards cuz you are married to Mr. Credit card.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you've been married 5 years and we have always had credit card debt.

Uh, how much credit card debt did he come into the marriage with?

>> I think at that point it was around maybe 70,000.

So it's it's maintained for about the last five years about the same.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So in his past he overspent which is what the credit card came from. But we're just going to >> Okay. So how old are you guys?

>> Uh he's 41 and I'm 30.

>> Okay. All right. Well I I this is not a

um a systems problem.

This is a person problem.

It's a behavior problem. Okay? So, your

system of getting out of debt is not going to work until both of you decide you're going to get out of debt. He has not decided that. And so, you got you

you know, you have a marriage issue to sit down and talk to your husband and say, "I want to get on the same page. I want us to get out of debt." And you can't tell me you want to get out of debt unless you put all the credit cards on the table and cut them up right now.

Yeah, we actually did that this weekend.

>> Uh, two quick questions. Give me quick answers here. How long have you been trying to to do the baby steps?

>> Since the beginning of this year.

>> Okay. And then do you guys have separate finances? I'm guessing you do the way you're talking. >> Yeah. >> Yes, we do. >> And then and then one other one I I forgot. Does he use the credit card as just all of his expenses and he's under the guise I'm going to pay it off at the end of the month but he never does. Is that what's going on? He's running everything through it.

>> He was. >> Yeah. >> Not anymore. But >> what how why did he agree to cut them all up last weekend?

>> I I think it's because, you know, he's

41 and I'm just I'm disappointed. I

mean, I just I can't take it anymore,

you know. Um, I have never had debt and

I've even racked up 11,000.

>> Okay, wait a minute. Stop a minute. Okay, I get all that, but he cut up the credit cards last weekend and then you called me and said he keeps going into credit card debt. But it sounds like this guy turned the corner last weekend and said, "I'm getting out of debt. I cut them all up." I'm confused about what you're upset about.

I I guess because I didn't I thought the number was lower than what it is. So

that's >> But you knew that last weekend.

>> Yeah. But I I'm at a point where I don't I don't know what to do. I can't pay off what we what we owe. I I just don't >> Yes, you can. You make $162,000.

You only need $62,000 to pay all this off. So you live on a h 100red and you are debtree in one year. Voila.

>> Yeah. It's fairly easy. It's $5,000 a month and you are debtree in one year. The two of you sit down and do a budget together. Combine your stinking finances and get on the same page and go, "We're going to put $5,000 a month on this debt cuz you cut up the credit cards and I'm over this. I can't sleep. I'm terrified.

I'm done with all this irresponsibility." And you are, too.

Thank you for cutting up the credit cards. Let's get on this and rot lock arms and let's attack this thing and be done. That's how you do it. You make enough money to pay this off in one year. Easy. >> That's right. If you can't live on $100,000 in Nashville, something's wrong with you.

>> Well, I don't I've tried. I've tried and it doesn't it just doesn't add up with daycare, with everything. It It just

doesn't add up.

>> What's your house pay? No, I know what your house payment is. Yes, it you you have not done a budget because the math you're giving me is just not factual.

Okay. You don't You can pay daycare and eat and pay your house payment out of $100,000.

That's $8,000 a month.

Quit your 401k if you're getting a

refund. Reset your W TWS and quit getting a tax refund. Cash out whatever save money you've got in savings. Chop up the credit cards and attack this. So

there's something uh Liz, your your hopelessness is not logical

unless you believe he's really not going to stop, in which case you need to go see a marriage counselor. But if he is uh if he's acting like I'm talking about and he goes, "Yeah, we're going to live on beans and rice, rice and beans. We're going to stop the 401ks. We're not going on any vacations.

We're going to sell so much stuff the kids are afraid they're next. We're getting extra jobs. We're going to live on a written budget. The two of us are agreeing together.

I just cut up the credit cards. Boom. 5,000 bucks a month goes on this. That's $60,000 a year.

That leaves me a h 100,000 to live on.

That's what it takes right there. You just got to go do this now. And but you can't you can't live in the past and be going, "Well, how you get back to any?" I don't care. What we all matters is the next 12 months. Game on, baby. Super

Bowl. Put the ball in the end zone.

Let's go.

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[Music] >> Nicole is in New York. Hi, Nicole. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> My fiance and I are trying to plan our honeymoon and we're trying to figure out how much money we think is appropriate to spend. Looking for guidance.

>> When are you getting married?

>> Next August. >> Awesome. Good for you.

>> Yeah. Very. >> So, where where you where you wanting to go? >> Um, so we're looking to go to Italy >> for around 10 or 11 days.

>> Wow. Very nice. So, what's the budget on

that? What's that going to cost?

>> It's looking like around 25,000, but we

are open to adjusting things.

>> Oh, wow. >> Depending on what you say. >> Oh, wow. >> A whole lot of pressure, Dave. >> Yeah. >> This is the honeymoon now. >> It's a honeymoon and it's it's Italy.

There's a lot of good stuff happening here. >> Yeah. And uh my mouth's kind of watering right now, actually. I'm just saying.

But um >> All right. So um I assume you're going to have 25,000 in cash to do this with.

You're not going in debt. >> Yes. Yeah. >> And uh what do you make and what does he make a year? >> I make around $200 and he makes around $300,000 a year. >> Okay.

Um sounds like you can afford it. Yeah.

Enjoy yourself, kids.

>> Really? All right. Wow. I mean, is there like do you have like $10 million in debt or something or >> We have no debt. >> No debt. >> Like a How How old are you two high income earners?

>> 29. >> Wow. You're killing it. >> Is there something information you're holding back from us? Cuz so far you're checking all the box.

>> You must be.

>> Wow. So, I mean, you you um I mean, you

kind of know if you make a half million dollars a year and you're 29 years old that you can do 25K. You already knew that, right?

>> Well, you never know. But yes,

>> it just seems like sticker shock that you would spend that much. Is that what you're experiencing? >> It It seems like a lot of sticker shock.

That's a lot of money. >> Why don't you pay attention to what you're doing with that 25,000? Cuz that is that's a pretty nice uh honeymoon.

It's not like you're staying at the Red Roof Inn in Italy.

>> All right. Well, >> I mean, this is a nice experience. Yes.

You got you got >> Yes, it's gonna be awesome. >> All right, then. I mean, savor this.

This is your honeymoon. Yeah, >> you're right. You're right. You guys are right. Here's how >> this is what we need. >> Here's how Sharon and I know we're overspending. We look at >> two things. Um, one is what percentage

of our world is this amount of money?

meaning our net worth, our income. Okay?

>> And this is a small percentage of your income. >> Yeah. >> If you took $25,000 and threw it out the

window and watch the people on the street below run around like crazy, >> it would not ruin your life.

>> Yeah. >> And so spending it on something much more fun than that, um it was not going

to ruin your life. So, if you told me you make $50,000 a year and you're going to spend 25, now we're going to have a long discussion about how dumb that is.

>> Mhm. >> Right. Even though it's a wonderful trip, you can't afford it. It doesn't make sense. And but you have another zero on that decimal. So, you're in good shape. >> Um the the second thing we measure against um is we're always if if we give

pause, this gave you pause. It made you stop and think. It was like a speed bump. It slowed you down. Anytime that happens, I that means I need to slow down and check my generosity factor. Am I is my generosity still really high?

>> Yeah. >> And am I doing a good job with helping others with the money God has blessed me with? And if so, then this is a vinor

amount of money and you pass both of those tests, you should go to Italy. Um,

I'll give you another possibility. They haven't been making this kind of money that long. it's new to them and so it

takes a little while to build the emotional muscle to spend more money on

>> you know she said that they're both very frugal and uh I'm looking at Rachel's book over there know yourself know your money and she brilliant brilliantly lays out money styles and what affects that.

So without doing too much digging we know that they come from a background where maybe they didn't come from a lot of money and they've been successful.

Maybe there's some scarcity going on but all good reasons. uh in this case cuz they're very very frugal and they're going, "Hey, is this crazy?" >> Yeah. It but it you know what what it also underscores is a um an emotional

maturity because there's zero entitlement. >> Correct. >> We did not have Bradzilla on the phone going anyway.

>> There was none of that, right? There was none of that Bradzilla stuff. This is more like I I I've dreamed of this my whole life. Oh, well, shut up, Barbie.

You know, seriously, how about you have the money before being gr and be a grown-up? But this lady here, she's an incredible grown-up. Yeah, absolutely.

>> I mean, there's no entitlement, none of that. It was the opposite of that.

>> Very concerned and thoughtful and careful and wise and all of that. Very well done, kiddo. Proud of you. Enjoy it. Tim is in New York. Hi, Tim. How are you? >> Hey, Dave. Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, um, I just have a question. My brother and I own a home together. We have a very good interest rate. Um, and

we have a very cheap mortgage. I'm going to be looking to move out and buy another home with my girlfriend sometime next year. >> Don't do that. >> Basically wondering, okay.

>> No, please don't buy a house with somebody you're not Please don't buy a house with somebody you're not married to.

>> Okay. >> You're going to get yourself up a creek, bud. Seriously, if you if you want to buy a house with her, you need to marry her first.

>> Okay, fair enough. >> Yeah, because here's the thing.

something happens. You're now in partnership with her mother.

>> Sure. >> Yeah. Or she just decides she's gonna take off and you can't find her and uh

you get to pay the payments and you can't sell it because you can't find your partner. And in this case, it is a literal partner, not a relational partner.

>> So, yeah. No, please don't don't don't buy a house with Now, if you want to buy a house and she lives with you, that's a that's your decision on how you have a roommate. But um but yeah, but but the

legal and financial entanglements when

people shack up and start buying stuff together and sharing too much stuff, you really get all twisted up and it's very very very difficult to undo. It's difficult enough when you use divorce to do it, but um man, I've we've we've

taken some wicked, ugly situations on this show of people who bought a house

or bought a car with their shacked up boyfriend or girlfriend and then they can't find them or they die and, you know, now I'm partners with my well, she's not my mother-in-law cuz she never was in-law, but I don't know who this chick is. It's my girlfriend's mother.

Oh my god, this is a really nightmarish scenario. And we run into that kind of stuff all the time, Tim. And it's just we see all the times it didn't work, which is like most of the time. >> Yeah. You just don't want to end up in a real life Jerry Springer episode, you know. Nobody's going to bail you out.

That makes for great TV. It's not fun to live through. >> Entertaining call on the Ramsay show, but you don't want to be one of those. You want to be one of the wise people who said, "No, I'm not gonna do And we're getting those calls, I feel like, consistently over the last 6 months where they're not married and they're trying to untangle it. It's a nightmare.

>> And it's and well, I mean, you can't find them or they don't they don't talk to you or and you know what? How do you get out of this? How do you have to sue in court >> to disband a general partnership with no partnership documents and it's very very

expensive. >> Yeah. to get the circuit court to uh give you relief and force the sale of this and force the other party to come in and sign the deed. Oh my gosh, it's a mess.

>> And by the way, I I'll tee you up on this one, too, because I'm seeing this is happening. We're seeing data where more and more young people because they're reading too many headlines, too many Tik Toks that they'll never be able to afford a home. Now, we're talking plutonic relationships.

And that's just that's as goofy as I've ever seen. And that's happening on a regular basis now. Yeah. Anything with two to four heads is a monster.

>> Yeah. This is a bad plan. Any ship that won't sail is a partnership. So, all of these things come into play, right? So, no, we don't we don't do that. You buy houses with people you're married to, that's it. In your case, you did it with your brother. You're all probably going to get out of that one alive, it sounds like, Tim. So, that's good. But yeah, um

I I would not purchase. I would rent if

you're going to live together. And uh I don't recommend doing either of those, but if you're going to do it from a financial and legal entanglement standpoint, and then after you're married, decide what to buy. And uh so

let let's keep these things in the right order, the right um forced ranking.

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[Music]

In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debtfree stage, Matthew and Ann are with us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Good. And you? >> Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do y'all live? >> We're actually from Knoxville, Tennessee. >> Very cool. Well, welcome to Nashville.

And how much debt have you two paid off?

>> We paid off $350,000.

>> Wow. And how long did that take?

>> It took us 8 years. Good for you. And your range of income during that eight years? >> We went from about 52,000 to about 92,000. >> Very good. What do y'all do for a living? >> So, I started out as a teacher for about 13 years and have moved into construction. >> Mhm. >> And I just went back to teaching fourth grade. >> Oh, fun. Good for you. Well done, you guys. So, 350 over eight years. I'm guessing you guys paid off your house.

>> Yes, sir. >> Look at it. Some weirdos.

Way to go, guys. is no house payment.

Wow. What's the house worth?

>> The house is worth, I think, is about 420 or 450.

>> Very good. And how much have you guys built in your retirement nest eggs?

>> We have about 200,000, I believe.

>> Awesome. So, on your way to Baby Steps Millionaires, and you're not that old. How old are you? How old are you? >> We're actually both 35 years old.

>> Oh, wow. Wow. So, you're going to be millionaires by the time you're 40 and have a paid for house by the time you're 35. Y'all are weird.

>> Yes. >> I love it. I'm so proud of you. Way to go, guys. Way to go.

>> All right, so you got to tell us, you know, what made you decide to take on the debt plus get rid of the house.

>> A lot of it was when we got married, we went to a financial peace university with our church. And after that, we were just determined we need to pay off our house as soon as we can. >> Very cool. What church do you go to?

>> We're at Calvary Knoxville now.

>> Yeah. Good. >> Originally from California, but now here in Tennessee. >> Okay. Oh, so you got married in California. Okay, so that What church was that that you took the class?

>> We took that. It was Clovis EVER.

>> Ah, okay. Cool. Very cool. Well, way to go, guys. I love it. So, uh, how long

have you been married? >> We've been married for seven years. No, >> eight years. >> Eight years. Eight years. Okay. So, from the time you got married, you were just game on. >> It was for sure. I mean, for her, it was just having that peace of mind. And for me, I got to kind of start nerding out on spreadsheets. >> I like it. I like it. Way to go. Very

cool. >> What was the hardest part of this journey for you guys? Was there a struggle and how did you get through it?

>> Honestly, I think for us, we've always had that goal of okay, this the house is going to come and so we were just blessed moving across the state that it or not say across the country and just kind of the focus was the house. I mean, I think the first time never really got bonus as a teacher. So, when the bonus came from the new work that I met, I was like, "Oh, I can go buy something." Instead, it's like, "Okay, no, we've got to keep the goal in mind and instead just pay off the house and then from there we can actually have a lot more fun." >> Yeah.

Yeah. Because you can do anything you want now. >> Yep.

the world. How's it feel to not have a house payment? >> I don't know if it's fully hit yet. I mean, we paid it off last month and so the first item, the budget item is with every dollar, it still says that mortgage on there.

So, I'm just excited to delete that line and then from there just kind of see how what we were paying for the house is actually going stuff like to our kids' colleges or just even having a little bit more fun. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, what's the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate? >> First big thing is upgrading my wife's car.

It's a little old and she needs to be driving style. >> Good. Good. I like this man.

Good plan. So, what are you going to buy her? Uh >> what is she What are you guys going to buy her? Not you buy her, but yeah.

>> Sorry. She wants a Toyota um RAV 4.

>> Oh, perfect. Okay, that'll be great.

>> Okay. >> And what's the uh what's the hoopty you're getting rid of? The old one? >> Uh 2010 Toyota Camry. It only has about

170,000 miles. >> Oh, we we have squeezed the juice out of that puppy. >> Well, for a Camry, that's only a third of its life. It's got a lot more left.

>> That thing, you can't get rid of them.

They just keep going and going and going. Way to go, you guys. I'm so proud of you. Who was bragging on you?

Who was cheering you on? >> Uh fans, friendlies. We actually have some friends here that got to cuz they're in the Nashville area got to come out and just celebrate with us today. >> Oh, that's fun.

Very good. Anybody tell you you were crazy while you were doing this? >> Oh, I hear it all the time cuz we actually p we had to pay off we had to buy another car from me to get around town and when we told everybody we paid for cash, they're like, why? I mean, just can buy whatever you want and I'll go buy something nicer.

And it's like, no, this gets me what I need to do. And we had our goals and we wanted just to kind of continue to live free. >> Yeah. And the goal is I don't have a stinking payment.

Hello, >> man. That's sweet. Sweet. You can do anything you want to do, man.

I'm proud of y'all. You're going to You're going to have so much money. It's going to be ridiculous. You're Are you the first ones in your families to be that be like this?

>> I don't know for sure.

>> I know credit cards were probably weird in that sense that we don't have credit cards. >> Right. Okay. Cool.

Cool. One of the things I want to ask because I've coached a lot of teachers over the years who wanted to get out and they didn't think they could because they didn't they hadn't done anything else. Just real briefly, I think it would be helpful to some people. How did you make the transition from teaching to construction?

>> I I think honestly it's your proximity process. I mean, I I felt call I mean, teaching is definitely a calling. And I felt for a long time that that calling was teaching until I was like, "Okay, God laid something on my heart." And I just had a buddy of mine say, "Hey, this fits what you're looking for.

>> Wow. So, the transferable skill here was math teacher, move over into analytics and the data side of construction.

>> Correct. And it's kind of nice not to be just teaching the same thing over every day every year. So it it makes it even more fun. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Good for you. >> Absolutely. And you brought the kiddos to celebrate with you. >> We did. >> All right. Bring them up. Let's see their names and ages.

>> We have Miss Nola Bell. She's six.

>> All right. She's beautiful. >> And then Nash, which is three.

>> All right. Big Nash. Here we go. Those those babies don't even understand how much their parents have completely changed their family tree. You guys are incredible. We're so proud of you. Very, very well done. All right, Matthew and

an Nola and Nash, Knoxville, Tennessee,

$350,000 paid off in 8 years, making 52 to 92.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> Ready? 3 2 1 We're debtree.

Yay.

Wow, I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Well done, you guys. Very well done.

>> Well, Ken, we do know from the uh

largest study of millionaires ever done by Ramsey Research that's in the white papers in the back of the baby steps millionaires bestselling book that um that the number one career choice of

millionaires is engineer, number two is accountant, number three is teacher.

Yes. >> And um so and we hear all the time from people that don't believe that. But you know when you use data, we don't care if you believe it or not. I mean if you don't believe in the law of gravity, try jumping off a building, you'll find the sidewalk.

I mean facts are facts and that's a fact. And uh what we've discovered is is that teachers are process driven. Particularly a math teacher that does data analysis are process driven. And they were both dialed in and for eight years they've made the steps, walked carefully and paid off the house and had a life while they were paying off their house.

>> Exactly. Right. The American dream is alive and well.

Watch the story. They started on it the minute they got married. So, they didn't accumulate other debt. They just came right into this thing and they said, "We're going to do this." And they walked it out. Now, they're very young.

And man, you want to talk about prosperity. It really is now in their

future. And >> Mr. Mr. Spreadsheet over here has already run the numbers on what his compound interest is going to be. He's already he's already sitting on 600 or 700,000 net worth at 35. And so that

puts him in the tens of millions in his retirement years in net worth. And so he's going to be in such they're going to be in such great shape. They've done such a good job. >> And um you know, mama's over there driving a hoopty Camry. Yeah.

>> We got to get her upgraded to a better Toyota there. And so, uh, very good.

>> Yeah. But worth worth every second of the sacrifices. They they just steady as

she goes and they were just monotonous about it and now they're going to live like nobody else. So, and that's that's the how this works. So, really fun. If every young couple would take this model, Dave, instead of getting like more and more debt and trying to keep up with everybody else and live the life their parents lived, this is the way.

>> Yeah. You need to take Instagram and put

a bullet in it. It's difficult to keep up with other people's highlight reels.

Yeah. Just if you're trying to keep up with other people, you're not going to win. Yeah. It's pretty simple.

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[Music]

Ann is with us in Minneapolis. Hi Anne,

how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How are you?

>> Just the same. How can I help?

>> Um, so my husband and I have been married eight years and we just had our first baby in December. Um, we're on baby step four. We have no debt other than our mortgage and we have a good emergency fund saved up. Um, we both work salaried jobs right now. I make more than my husband in my field. So, my salary is 135K with a 20% annual bonus

and significant career growth potential to climb the ladder. But my husband's around 100k and we've found there's more of a salary ceiling with his CPA career.

Um, it's going to be difficult for him to significantly increase salary over the next 5 years. He's not >> You said he's a CPA.

>> He is a CPA. Yeah. >> He only makes a hundred grand.

>> Yeah. And >> he has a career cap. Why does he have a career cap? He's under under He's under market already.

>> He is, but that's after job hopping like three jobs in the last five years. It's it's hard to find. Maybe it's just Minnesota, but at CPA firms, anything more than 100K is what we've found.

>> Well, I I was waiting on you. Here's what I would say. That's because you're looking in one pool and that's your traditional CPA firms. But with his skill set plus his experience as a CPA,

he has all kinds of upward mobility in

the corporate world because of that actual skill set and experience. But if he's locked in on these firms in a

certain uh type of work that he's doing and I have a little bit of an idea what you're talking about, then he is >> Yeah. But the point is is he's not limited for his growth.

>> We're talking about a lot of seaeters in in the United States that came through the CPA ranks.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But what's your what's what's your question? You've kind of given us the financial picture and what you think the professional outlook is.

>> Yeah. So, um, we've recognized that we both can't continue to work full-time because our daughter isn't in daycare and right now I juggle full-time work remote with her at home. Um, but that won't last forever as she takes less naps and is up more during the day and I really want to be a present mom. So, right now benefits are the most challenging for us because my husband's work at a small firm has a very expensive health insurance plan with a limited network and I get really good benefits because I'm in the medtech industry.

So, um, good insurance is important.

We need to support ongoing care and medications. So, basically, I don't want to work forever, and I want to be able to be a stay-at-home mom, but we feel like financially and health insurance wise, it may make the most sense for me to work and my husband to go down to part-time. At least we can until we can get through having another baby and I can get benefits and maternity leave for my second pregnancy. But my fear is that if I continue to work, it's going to turn into more of a long-term thing because my career will continue to grow and it'll probably never make financial sense for me to stop working because I can just make a lot more money.

So, we're also conservative Christians and there's the factor that the man is supposed to be head of the household, which typically looks like the stereotype of the wife is a full-time stay-at-home mom and the husband's the provider.

And what would you recommend in our >> You work on his career.

>> Yeah. >> Because his career path sucks.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, what if he's not very motivated?

Like I mean, >> I think he'd be motivated after listening to you. Yeah. I mean, this is ready. I'm ready to go. I think he could go. >> Yeah. I mean, you got you got this dialed in. you know exactly what you want and how to get there.

>> Uh I will tell you I I have taken this call a lot from ladies and I've talked to a lot of men who site motivation as a factor and I can tell you this.

>> Um he doesn't lack motivation, he lacks clarity. Um I don't think this is a lazy guy. Um

>> no no he's not. >> Right. Right. So what you're seeing as it looks like he's not motivated. it it presents that way. But what's going on is he doesn't know what his options are.

He doesn't see clarity in the future.

Meaning, I'd like to go here and I know how to get there. In other words, I know what mountain I want to climb and I know what I have to do to learn how to climb it. That's what he's lacking. And uh I can tell you that if you solve that and help him solve it, uh then you can do

what Dave is saying and he begins to see a path forward. Uh because you have to honor this desire to be a stay-at-home mom. You don't have to do it right away, but we've got to clear up.

>> You told us what you want. >> That's it. >> You want to be there, >> but you've got to make it make sense. And the way it makes sense is if he gets in a career path that has good quality insurance because you've got chronic health care and obviously we'll cover maternity for a second baby and those kinds of things. and he has some upward mobility, upward uh trajectory with his income and a ladder to climb and be about the business of climbing it.

>> So, hang on the line. Um here's what I want to do. Uh this is my gift and and this this this will help. I'm going to give him the book Find the Work You're Wired to Do it. It has an assessment in it. It's called the Get Clear Career Assessment. Have him take it and it's going to spit out a lot of great easy to understand information. and I won't unpack it here on the call, but that's going to help him with where he can go

and how he can get there. He reads the book after he takes the assessment and I'll walk him step by step what to do.

That's going to really, really help. I'm also going to give him a copy of my book, The Proximity Principle, which is his next step of homework where he begins to get out there and connect with people in the places that he wants to end up professionally. And if that happens, just like the baby steps, he

will find something and you guys will be able to make this plan for your life happen. >> But it's not by osmosis. It is through

intentionality and it can be done.

>> Yeah. And so >> he should be in the 250 300 range soon.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Your your analysis is based

on the current set of facts. And the

third option is create a new set of facts. >> Yep.

>> Charity is in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hi, Charity. How are you?

>> Good. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I uh my car broke down in traffic yesterday. It turns out it needs about $5,700 worth of work.

>> Who said? And it Say that again.

>> Who told you that?

>> Um the mechanic shop. So >> at the dealership >> and not at the dealership. It was just a mechanic shop that we went to.

>> Okay. What's wrong with what's wrong with the car?

>> It um I think they said the rack and

pinion, the control arm bushing.

Basically, a lot of the front end is uh

needs a lot of work. So, um, >> the rack and pinion does not collapse in traffic.

>> No, I thought it was they did say the steering pump was part of it as well.

Um, so it got to a point where I was

trying to uh turn and it got really hard to turn. >> Okay. That that that your your power steering went out. Okay. That that causes collapse in traffic. And then they found everything else they could find wrong with the car that's been wrong with the car for the last year and a half and added it onto the ticket.

Correct. >> Yeah. So, bull crap. >> Um, so it is about a 10-year-old car.

It's completely paid off. Um, it it's had some class action lawsuit things against >> Put a steering pump on it.

>> Steering pump. Okay. >> It's not $5,700.

>> Okay.

So, that's kind of what I was interested in was just um you know, the car when it's running, it's worth two to three grand. >> Um, and I mean, we're on baby step three. We already I mean we have an emergency fund. Our goal is 20K.

>> We have 13K in our emergency fund so far. >> What's your household income?

>> Uh about 105. >> Okay. As soon as you get your emergency fund done, I want you to start working on saving up for a car.

>> And move and move up in car cuz this car is a piece of crap. I agree with you.

Yes. >> But right now, you don't have the money to replace it, do you?

Um, well, let me add that we do have 7,000 in a brokerage non-retirement

account. >> Why is that not in your emergency fund?

>> Well, that's what we were going to call and ask is um should that be um

>> should already have been in your emergency fund. Now, if that's in your emergency fund, how much is in the emergency fund?

>> 13K. >> Okay. And your goal is what?

>> Our goal is 20. Um, we haven't had a lot of margin in our budget just due to plumbing and household maintenance things, >> power steering pumps going out and Yeah.

>> Okay. So, yeah. Yeah, that I'm going to um move the brokerage into your emergency fund, finish your emergency fund. I'm going to upgrade the car. In the meantime, you got to fix the power steering pump cuz you got to get the thing operating. But you don't spend $5,700 on a $2,000 car. That's u that's

a mechanic that you don't need to do business with that even suggested that.

That's asinine. Heat. Heat.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author and host of Front Row Seat is my co-host today. Open phones at 888255225.

Rob is in Los Angeles. Hey Rob, how are you? >> I'm doing great, Dave. How are you guys?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> That's awesome. Um, I am 48 years old,

married with two kids, um, and unfortunately have been diagnosed with,

uh, stage 4 cancer. Um, we've I've been

fighting the disease for a couple of years now. And through that fight, I

exhausted my 401k.

And basically, my family has been surviving off of my disability income of

$2,800 a month. We don't have any

assets. Um, I don't own a house or

anything like that. And on Sunday, Dave,

I had a miracle happen.

I won $100,000

on um NFL fantasy football contest

and I am freaking out and have no idea

what to do because I'm sick. So all the

traditional steps that one would take to improve their lives, I uh

I just at a loss for words.

>> Wow. I'm wondering what you would do.

>> Well, I've never been there, so I'm not positive. Um, what a what a

>> what a ch what a challenging situation.

The um I think the first thing I the first thing that popped into my head is um don't lose it all trying to replicate it.

>> Okay? You know, don't in other words, don't don't put 100,000 back into sports betting.

>> No, I know that. I know that >> you probably got your one miracle. I don't think I'd stretched God on this.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um, so yeah, I mean I because that temptation's got to be there a little bit like, hey, I'm now now I've got this thing figured out. No, you don't.

>> Um, like you said, you called it a miracle. It's luck. It's whatever. and um it's a provision for your family, but

don't for God's sakes don't use it to create more bedding. Okay. Is that fair?

>> Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

>> That's the first thing that pops into my mind. Then I don't know that I mean 100,000 is a lot more than you had and it's a good thing. Um

it's certainly not enough to sustain a family of three, a wife and two kids if

you're in heaven. Right.

>> Correct. >> So it does help though. We're not, you know, wonderful. I'm glad you got it.

Um, so how do we make that work? Um,

you guys have got your household budget currently set up on the disability.

You're living on 28.

>> Uh, it's difficult. My wife >> Oh, I would imagine. >> Um, gig a gig job. So, she's, you know,

if she brings in a hundred bucks a day, we're lucky. So, >> what's her job? Peter to pay Paul.

>> What's her job? >> That >> what is her job? >> Um she's like a uh she delivers groceries like gig app, >> you know, like a Door Dash type thing.

>> Where is her family and your family?

>> Um I I just have uh my dad is the only

one left and her family is all here with us >> so she has that support when something does happen to me.

>> Okay.

Uh, >> I've never heard you at a loss for words. >> Well, I I'm trying to think of um I'm

going to speak plainly. Okay. Can I have permission to do that?

>> Absolutely. >> What's she going to do for a living to raise two children when you're gone?

>> I've tried to have that conversation with her. Um, it

never turned out how I like. I don't think she

knows. >> Yeah. >> And I think she is putting it off and

>> Well, and she's afraid if she says it out loud that it's going to happen.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't I understand that's we all process this pro this thing differently.

Um, so, um, yeah, what I would use the 100,000 for is to cause her to get trained or

certified in whatever it is she's going to do to raise these two kids, assuming your doctors are correct.

>> Yeah. No, they are.

>> Okay. You see what I'm saying? So, I mean, if she if you spent $25,000 and she got a certification in X, Y, or Z that allowed her to make 70 or $80,000 a year to be a widowed mom of two. That's

the That's an incredibly good in use of that money as far as I'm concerned.

>> Yeah. I But I'm Don't hear Dave say that she's got to go to college. We're not saying that. We're saying we're going to find something very practical. Does not take very long to get qualified. It does not cost a ton, but it allows her to make a very decent living to be able to take care of of her and the kiddos.

>> Yeah. >> I'm okay. Let me give you another example. I would I would include college as a possibility >> if it Yes. >> Yeah. So, like for instance, has she got a four-year degree?

>> Um, no. And and we're 50, so I telling

her to go back to college. I don't think that she >> Okay. I don't want to tell her to do anything. I want her to be able to have enough income to feed her kids and live.

That's all I want her to do. But the uh um uh for her sake, I'm trying to help her. >> What put you on the spot? Because you know her better than us and we we we can't talk to her. What would she What would you have her do knowing her the way you know her?

>> I I would have her get something like a

a hairdressing license or or or something like that. >> Mhm. to where that she could, you know, maybe, you know, start something on her own or go rent a chair, but at le

minimum wage with something, >> of course. Yeah. You need to make more than minimum wage in LA. >> Is she Is she intrigued by that? Ever talked about that kind of work.

>> Um, when we first got together, I had

actually offered to do that and, you know, we were so young that she didn't take me up on my offer. And, you know,

>> Yeah. Well, again, I think Dave's right.

I would set that aside with her and say, "Hey, here are a couple options. Let her do some research." You got to force this conversation and then say, "All right, we're going to put some money aside." That would more than take care of the qualification process for But if she took $30,000 u or $40,000 to live on and spent 60

during one year to get this thing that

allows her to make 70 or 80 or whatever the rest of her life that's providing

for her and for the kids. Um, and I

can't think of anything that's going to be a better investment that's going to that's going to even come close to that kind of a return other than education

certification that allows an income to be created, right?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think that's your provision to me is to set up a sustainable provision.

And uh it's hard to talk about cuz it's, you know, you don't it's it's um man, it's painful. Uh what y'all are going through is horrible. I'm so sorry, but um but not talking about it is probably not a plan. And so her her not addressing the issue is not going to make you get well. You're going to get well independent of whether she addresses the issue. Um

I'm not ill, but we plan my death every year uh in detail. If something happens to Dave this year, how does the remaining parties survive? And we go into it in detail, and that's an act of love. Um, and that's it.

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Investing may seem complicated or confusing, but it doesn't have to be.

The Ramsey Investing and Retirement Hub is packed with interactive tools, resources that can help you get informed and not intimidated. Check it out at ramseysolutions.com/retire or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

Ombberto is with us in Oklahoma City.

Hey Ombberto, what's up?

>> So, I am finishing up nursing anesthesia

school in about nine months. Um, unfortunately, I haven't been able to work the last two and a half years.

>> Did you say you're finishing nurse anesthesis school?

>> Yes, sir. >> Very good. >> School. >> Okay, great. >> Um, so I'm going to have a lot of loans about up to like $275,000

coming out. >> Wow.

But you ought to be making 300, right?

>> Yeah. 250 to 300.

>> Yeah. Okay. But and you used to make what? What are you making now? Nothing.

>> Nothing now. I was making uh about 100K as a nurse just working a lot of overtime. >> Okay.

So, what are you going to do? Live on nothing and pay it off in two years?

>> That's somewhat my plan, but also planning to get engaged, um get married.

>> That doesn't cost much. Um, no, it doesn't. It really doesn't. Um, but

wanting to do, I mean, not the most extravagant wedding I can afford, of course, but at least something that's nice. Um, I'm just curious on

uh if it would if the best thing to do is just to live off nothing and peanuts and just pay off as much as I can as fast as I can. >> Yeah, absolutely.

>> Okay. I uh I talked to my financial

advisor as well and he didn't make it seem that way that I should pay it off as soon as I can. >> Then get a new financial adviser.

>> Yeah. >> Gotcha. >> And yet you called Dave because even you didn't think that sounded right.

>> Yeah. I had a buddy who just kept uh uh what's it called? Hammering me about it and I was like, "Well, I'll just call and see see what I can learn." >> Yeah. Also, you got a really good friend. So your friend's better than your financial adviser. >> Yeah. That's good. So here here's the thing, dude. uh the highest you you have

engaged in a ridiculous amount of debt

and have gotten an awesome degree and

career choice.

Okay. So, so far it's worked out, but

you there's other than NFL players,

there's nobody dumber with money than doctors.

>> Mhm. >> They're perpetually stupid with money.

Don't be a stupid doctor with money.

Okay? you're making serious doctor money. Use it to straighten up the mess that you've made and go become wealthy.

If you keep the student rolling around like you think it's a pet so your financial adviser can get you to put start investing so he can start getting commissions because you didn't fire him.

Um then that's just straight up dumb.

You man, can you know how much money you're going to have if you have no debt and $300,000 income and learn to live on less than that? You're going to be a multi-bazillionaire.

But not if you screw around with this.

>> You'll just be another pro doctor.

>> My whole life, I've just kind of been always like keep it the minimum and just uh >> and just make as much as I can and save up as much as I can. That way I can do whatever I want. >> Yeah. Beans and rice. Rice and beans.

And hey, set aside 25 grand. I don't care for for a wedding. I don't mind.

What does she make?

>> She's actually finishing school, too.

>> In what?

nurse anesthesia. >> Oh, okay. Guess where we met. Okay. And um Yeah. And so she's going to be making the same kind of Does she got the same mess? >> Yeah, she'll have the same mess.

>> Oh, jeez. >> So, we're going to have a $600,000 income and $500,000 worth of loans, right? >> Yep.

>> Okay.

So live like you make a hundred grand and get yourself a $25,000 wedding and

you guys tear the tear the can

please just go to the Ramsey Solutions website and put in what'll happen after you're done with all this and you make $600,000 and you put $200,000 in

investments a year. How fast you will be worth $20 million will blow your freaking mind.

But go ahead and be done with this in like a year and a half.

>> Yeah, that sounds amazing. >> Yeah. Sit on a bean bag, don't eat out,

tell your broke friends who have their all these opinions, not the good friend that we we have established. You have one good friend. Fire your financial advisor. Live on beans and rice, rice and beans, and be completely free and making 600 grand two years from now.

Dude, you're going to have so much.

you're going be able to do anything you want to do, but if you screw around and keep this around, try to be I'm going to I'm going to pay it off on a 10-year plan, I'm going to kill you because you will have wasted so much money. You understand? >> Yeah, >> dude, you got you. This is amazing where

you can be. And and uh but please God,

the number of times I've talked to people in your world that that are 10 years later and they're still looking at those student loans like they're a pet.

They're keeping them around. Well, I think we need to feed it a little bit just to keep it alive. Oh my god. It's just you're No, please, please, please.

You're The great news is you've got an

incredible income potential. The horrible news is you got to dig out of a mess before you get to have the benefit of it. No new beamers, no new houses,

no new new new nothing. Nothing, honey.

Clean up the mess. And dude, you could God, they're gonna have so much money, Ken. I get so excited. >> Oh, I was going to say I I don't think you were passionate enough with that. I think you should have been a little clear uh about what you mean. Sometimes you're a little fuzzy, Dave, uh with these callers. Also, I do like the uh the carrying on of the rice and beans into the bean bag. I also like that.

>> That's a good handoff there. >> I thought that was nice. I like that.

You don't need a bunch of furniture. Just get you, >> you know, you're the one of the few around here that's old enough to actually remember it what a bean bag chair is. >> I do. And I uh still have a couple. We got both. True story. Uh they're called it's actually got a corduroy cover on it, but it is a bean bag for both my boys. >> And I love them. >> I'll sit on them sometimes and watch football. Very comfortable.

>> And then you admitted it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. What would be worse if I said I had a water bed? You remember those? >> We got a whole generation has no idea that it was actually water.

>> It was actually bed and you put water in it. >> You like floated around. That was so obnoxious. >> Yeah. >> Glad those went away on the ash heap of history. [Laughter] >> Yeah. H So, hey man, you just Ombberto,

you got such a your future so right bright you got to wear shades, man. I mean, seriously, it's incredible. But yeah, but you really do need to decide to do this the right way. And that's super fast.

>> Yeah. >> Well, you're addressing something that isn't just the medical community. You got people who come out of school good degrees and they're going to get good jobs because of said degrees and they've been living on nothing and now they're going to make a really nice salary. And Dave, the temptation, you know, is so strong to live on some of that money as opposed to not live on it.

That's >> number one mistake.

Number one mistake they make, new car.

>> Yep.

because they've been driving their high school hoopty all the way through college. And uh I'm I'm now I'm I'm now

I've got a license and a letter after my name and now I need to spend some money that I don't have and >> go buy a car I can't afford and uh Yeah.

So it's like they exhale and it sounds like BMW.

>> That's exactly right. >> Yeah. >> Three more letters to add to all those fancy degrees.

>> Yeah, it's true. >> It's exactly right. So, yeah, don't don't do that. Get your mess cleaned up before you start buying cars and houses and uh then you can you can have it the life you want. I mean, it's incredible what you'll be able to do. Absolutely incredible. So, very cool stuff, guys.

Very cool. >> And on behalf of all patients in in the world, we would like to have not stressed out doctors and nurse and estist taking care of us. You're so stressed out because of your bills. You know, we don't need you stressed out.

It's already a tough job. You know, >> I have personally witnessed a couple of epidurals and I do not want those being done by a stressed out person.

>> Great point. Yikes. Get that away from

me. >> Yeah, >> I should

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Heat.

Heat.

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Hey, hey, hey.

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When John Olirri was 9 years old, he suffered burns over 100% of his body was

given a 1% chance to live. And he shares

his expertise on overcoming adversity

and how to live inspired with tens of thousands of people, hundreds of events a year. He's spoken with us several times. We've become good friends over the years. promoted the book that became a national bestseller called On Fire.

Um, his story is breathtaking

and um, amazing and uh, and the only thing that's better than his story is the guy himself and so honored to have you with us, my friend. Congratulations on all your success. >> Dave Ramsey, I am grateful to be your friend. Out of everything you said, that's what I'm most grateful for. And and I realize, man, this isn't my success. This is God's hand in everything I've done, including the mess ups along the way. And there are many.

Some we track, some we bury, but uh God's grace has carried us forward. So, I get a call, and I get these calls occasionally from friends that have done some kind of movie or some kind of film.

Hey, come. We've got the uh the uh the early release for the people that can help us promote it on their shows and stuff. Come over and watch it. And generally, when I go, I'm like, "Oh, God." And um I and I got a call from John, hey, you got to come see the movie on my life called Soul on Fire. I went I had

to get there just a little bit late cuz I got tied up in a in a thing here at the office. And when I got there, I sat there and cried and cried and cried and

cried. And I know the whole story. It wasn't like I didn't know what was coming. I knew every every turning point, every milestone in the story.

And I'm still It was so well written and so well acted. I was blown away. It's incredible movie. >> Yeah.

>> Well, what makes it I think even more incredible is it begins with the words a true story. And it is. And you and I were talking right before we started the show, but it's recorded in St. Louis where I was raised.

The hospital scenes are recorded in the hospital where I was treated. The place where I met my future wife was recorded exactly where she and I met. And the place where she and I married is recorded in the church where we married.

The girl playing my wife in the film walks down that aisle wearing the dress she wore. So for us, it's not only an emotional true story, they did such a phenomenal job of where they filmed and how they outfitted these characters. And

the lady that played your wife nailed it. I mean, cuz your wife is special. We

all know that. And but they she's a hero in the in the story. I mean, she's incredible. >> Well, my my favorite part about the film is when you look at the movie poster, it's not a picture of Joel Courtney playing John Olirri with his arms up celebrating his greatness.

They actually spun him around so you see his backside and it's a mosaic of all the individuals who were the hands and feet of Jesus who were part of this kid's survival from fire to 100% of his body. Should not have survived that. But in some regards, the more miraculous story is embracing the scars, embracing your life, and recognizing even in the midst of agony, you can be used for good.

emotional struggle. Unbelievable. And I know there are a lot of people that are tuned in today that are feeling like

their future is unimaginable. They cannot figure how they're going to get out of bone crushing debt. I think few people could speak to them the way you can. Having overcome what you have overcome, what would you say to that person who feels like they'll never get out of this debt. They're behind.

They're never going to be able to live the life that they desire. >> All right. Me, too. And I live that way not just when I was a kid in the hospital. I think in recovering, Ken, from physical injuries is far easier than the emotional ones.

>> So, once I came home, like that alone is miraculous, but I buried the light and I kept it buried for 20 years. My life changed in the back row of a church service. My arms were crossed. I was wiped out from the night before.

We won't go into the details of that, but I'd been out too late. My life was just sideways, man. But I made it in. And the pastor was talking about the gift of talents.

And he went through the five and the two and the one. And then he came to me like when the light goes on you. And he said, "And for those who feel as if you have no hope and no talent," and that might be the person you're speaking to there. He said, "Listen to me.

Your life is a precious, priceless gift. You got one job now.

And I didn't even know what that meant, but I wrote it down as as a 28-year-old.

Went to work the next day doing construction at the time in debt, struggling, wiped out, and uh I got a

call from a little girl who said, "Mr. John, will you speak at my school?" And that simple yes to this girl to speak to three girl scouts to not even be paid a box of Samoas for the effort.

Like we weren't killing it, man. We were not crushing debt. This wasn't helping anything. But it was setting us on a path. >> And in that room, a Rotarian came up and said, "That was awesome. Speak at my Rotary Club. They don't pay. They barely feed you." But I went. and then in their Aquinus and then in their church service and then a prison group in this awkward introverted nobody just kept saying yes

and it has led now over 20 years to being back on the Dave Ramsey show to having two bestselling books to being debtree and now to have this film called Soul on Fire rolling into theaters around the country and around the world that's not my work it's God's hand and a

answer of yes when the opportunity knocks.

Yeah, the movie is Soul on Fire. It's in theaters October the 10th. Go and see

it. I will give you my personal guarantee that you will be glad you took the time and the little bit of money out of your pocket. You will walk away inspired and ready to go. Soul on fire.

And John is has definitely personified that since I've known him. So, um, what

do you hope viewers walk away from this film with?

I'm going to answer that in a long-winded way. So, my my um my hero is my dad. You and I have talked about this before. And >> my my favorite scene in the film is in the church when we get married. You know, surprise, guys. Like, I survived the fire. It's going to be okay. I don't know why Ramsay was crying.

>> I'm living right next to him in the seat. Like, he should be aware the kid's going to survive and have a good life.

Later on, I get married and they shot

this with the girl walking down the aisle wearing my wife's actual wedding dress. It's Dolly left Dave. So, they go

to the left and then you see this man rise in the second row. It's not John Corbett who's the actor who portrays my dad in the second row. It's a guy he's portraying. That's my dad. And so, um, my dad rises, which he can't do. He had

Parkinson's disease, had it for 30 years before he passed away. And when Shawn McNamera, the director, yelled the word action, my heroic dad stands up and

every time I see my dad in this film and I just I lose it. It's it's an incredible moment. But back in May, I

took my dad to the film and uh I thought I'd have him for years, decades probably, and he held my hand the entire time. And when you when your dad holds your hand for that long, that's two, it's an hour and 40 minutes for your dad to hold your hand. But at the end of it, I said, "Dad, uh, what do you think about your film?" And my dad whispered back to me because he had no voice.

"What a gift." >> And what he was reviewing was not the film Soul on Fire.

>> He had Parkinson's. He'd broken every bone in his body, most of them twice. He was financially struggling. He was uh been through two house fires, almost lost one of his kids in one of them. And yet at the end of the life, man, he was able to look up at his son and say, "What a gift." So I hope people dance out of that theater saying what a gift.

This story isn't my life we celebrate man. It's yours. Doesn't make it easy.

But God is working in this moment in your life and your best is yet to come.

That is a gift. >> That is that's exactly right. That's exactly how it works. And after he saw that he's passed away now, right? >> Passed away on May 30th. >> Wow. Amazing. The movie my friend John

Olir's life story and uh you will leave

with a gift. uh Soul on Fire. It is in

theaters beginning October the 10th. The book is on fire. And if you ever have the opportunity to see John speak, you should. He's spoken on our stages many times. We've shared the stage many times on different things. And uh he's a world-class communicator, as you can already tell. So, um again, 9 years old,

suffered burns over 100% of his body,

given a 1% chance to live. But pain and

hardships bring the greatest learning lessons, and he'll show you how that works. I can promise you you'll come away going, "Oh, okay. I got no problems." Love you, John. Thanks for being with us, brother. >> Love you, Dave. Love you, Ken. >> Congratulations. Soul on Fire in theaters October 10th.

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Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 45:2, I

will go before you and will level the mountains. I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron.

Ella Fitzgerald said, "It isn't where you come from that matters. It matters where you're going." Absolutely true.

All right. If uh here's the top questions people have about online wills. How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for a will? Well, if your estate is worth less than a million dollars, getting an online will is probably a great option for you.

And actually, if it's worth more than a million dollars, it's probably still a great option. Sup, super complicated is what really matters. It's not the size of it necessarily. Uh, what do I need to start my online will?

Well, where who do you want to get your stuff? Who do you want to take control of your minor kids? And who do you want to make decisions if you're incapacitated? That's a couple of the things they're going to ask, so be ready for them.

Is an online will legally valid? Well, of course.

uh ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz to find out if an online will is right for you. Aaron is with us in Indianapolis. Hi Aaron, how are you?

>> Good. How are you Dave?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Nothing much Dave. So I want to be brief and to the point here. I'm a big fan of your podcast and I listen in recently as I've been traveling a lot. Uh and right now I'm in a bit of a situation. My dad passed away earlier this year and um he

left back pension money from uh he was a union worker for my mom as a beneficiary. So I'm calling on behalf of my mom um and she is trying to find out

what to do with that money that was left behind. >> How much is it? >> We want to It's 126,000.

>> Okay. Go go go to ramseyolutions.com and click on smartvetor pro. Find someone in

your area that has the heart of a teacher that we have vetted and let them sit down with your mom and tell your mom what her choices are. She needs to roll it into some good growth stock mutual funds into an IRA.

>> Yes. So, we were presented with a fixed

index annuity. >> Absolutely not. Horrible. No.

>> No. >> Horrible.

>> Who presented that? I uh someone who worked with my mom to help her build her trust right after this happened with my mom. So um I

immediately was kind of skeptical. I had heard what you had said about it. So I wanted to make sure I was making the right decision. And >> help your mom build a trust. Why does your mother need a trust?

>> She has um property as well.

>> Yeah, but that doesn't mean you need a trust.

Yeah, that's what we were just we were advised because this uh >> by the person who sells trusts.

>> No, no, by a different person who recommended us to the um person who

>> How much property does your mother have?

>> She has three different rental properties and then the current house.

>> How old is she?

>> She is 51.

>> Okay. I personally would not put any of that in a trust.

It's complete overkill and it's a complete pain in the butt to operate rental properties in a trust because of the operational aspects of writing checks to fix the heat and air and everything else all got to go through the trust. It's a it's a pain in the butt. >> They should just be in LLC's.

>> There's no benefit to them being in the trust. So I think this is somebody sells trusts or doesn't know what the flip they're doing. One of the two. Um so no I I wouldn't do that but anyway and I wouldn't do the other either. So, so far I don't like any of the people that have given you all advice.

I don't like any of the advice I've been giving you. So, yeah, I would get with a Smart Investor Pro and do a rollover on the pension and I would not put the houses in a trust. I'd put them in LLC's and uh there's no there's just no point in it. It doesn't do anything. So, yeah,

>> I like it when you tell them I don't like any of those people and that's that. Charles is in Topeka, Kansas. Hey, Charles, what's up?

Hey, I just got a question. Um, so I recently, um, purchased my second home and I was able to buy it in cash and we

paid off all our other debts this year.

>> Doesn't that feel great?

>> It does. I'm sleeping good, I'll tell you that. Coffee every morning.

>> I bet you are. I'm proud of you, man.

Way to go. What's your net worth?

>> Oh, probably around, you know, 600 or 700,000. >> Good for you. Way to go. house and all the cars. >> Good for you. >> But um yeah, so after child care, all my

bills, groceries, that kind of stuff, I have about 2,000 left over and I want to

know how much monthly I should throw into like retirement or, you know, custodial accounts for the kids cuz I, you know, kind of want to do some dumb stuff and go on vacations and do things like that. So >> Oh, that's not dumb. You've earned it. You should go do those things. Yeah. So, you've just got to lay it out and parse it out and go, "Okay, there's three things I can do with money at Baby Step 7. I can have fun with it and I should.

I can be generous with it and I should.

And I can invest it and I should." As far as kids custodian accounts, how old are the kiddos?

>> Uh, 6 months and two and a half.

>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, you could put some in there. I wouldn't overload it too much. Uh, if you want to put some in a 529 instead and be thinking about college, that's fine. Or education of some kind. trade schools also qualifies for 529s. Uh so whatever they're going

to do, they're going to need some training post high school. And um yeah,

be preparing for that, but you don't have to go hog wild on that. And you should be putting at least 15%. You should have been before you paid off the house. 15% of your household income going into retirement accounts, but at this stage, you ought to be doing more than that. >> We were trying, but we were in a house that uh we probably shouldn't have been.

Um, but I bought a fixer upper and it's all worked out in the end. So, >> okay. So, you got that behind you. So, now you can put at least that away, but you ought to be putting it a minimum of 15. But a baby step seven, I'd like to see you'd be doing more than 15% of your income into retirement and be doing

something towards the kids' college and something towards fun. And there ought to be room in this budget to do all that. And just sit down with your Smart Investor Pro and lay out your game plan on how we're going to invest, what we're going to invest in, and you know, lay out your Roth IAS. just load them up uh load up the Roth 401ks at work if you've got them um and so forth and then you'll

look up in just a few years and it'll be millions and millions of dollars. It's kind of amazing how quickly it grows, how fast this life goes for that matter.

>> Yeah. You know the for folks that are listening, watching, we have a lot of new folks coming in all the time. This is a great call as Dave's giving that advice. You got to understand the baby steps are not a suggestion. This is a

tried andrue plan. And you refer to it privately, you know, in in our building, in our meetings, that it's a clear path developed over time as you walk through with people in real life money situations. And I'm telling you the the fundamental truth about the baby steps, Dave, is that it creates massive financial and personal and relationship

momentum. >> It does. >> It just does. >> It does. and and the the because you're

getting you're setting yourself free.

>> Yeah. >> You're working like crazy and you're actually getting traction.

>> So many people with money feel like a rat in a wheel. They feel out of control. They're reactive instead of proactive. >> And when you get the other side of all of that, guys, it it really turns things around in every area of your life.

>> Um you know, Steven CVY all those years ago had that book and it's still on the bestseller list. I look up Total Money Makeovers on there. Seven habits of highly effective people is on there.

Number one habit of highly effective people, they are proactive.

>> They happen to things.

>> Yes. >> Not everything happens to them. So if you're in a situation and you don't like where you are happen to it. What is it we're going to do?

What are we going to what kind of dynamite are we going to throw in the middle of this? Pull the pin on the grenade. Light up the room, baby. Let's go.

There's something's got to change here. And if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. That's the definition of insanity. That's what the 12stepers tell us.

And so, you know, I I can't seem to break the cycle. Well, break the cycle then. >> Yeah. You know, >> it's it's genius how we know, we talk to people all the time how hard it is for many people just to get through baby step one, which is to get $1,000.

And when you're broke, you know how hard that is. But there's something about that. It propels you beautifully into baby step two, which is a tiny little confidence builder. >> It is.

And it's hard sometimes. And you get through that hardship. Guess what happens? your shoulders come back a little bit.

You did something that you didn't think was going to be possible. And that's the magic of these baby steps. Work the baby steps. Not out of order. One through seven. >> Yeah. One is before two is before three

is before. That's how that works. And so

don't call me up and ask me to change them, okay? It'll be it'll be better for you and me both if you don't do that.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 130. Quit Letting Dumb Money Decisions Hold You Back | December 17, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network [music] and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, [music] Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host. He's also the host of a big runaway head on Ramsey Networks called The Front Row Seat. If you want to join him there, you'll see all kinds of very interesting people. So, jump in and join us today. The phone number is 88825-5225.

Cody is in Austin, Texas. Merry Christmas, Cody. How are you?

>> Merry Christmas. I'm good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I've I've stumbled against some some obvious decisions that's led me into about a 250,000 in consumer debt

that has uh left me stumped on how me and and my significant other can make headway to get this taken care of in a short amount of time or or as quickly as possible. And it just seems like we run into a brick wall about uh beliefs on how we're going to do that.

>> That's a lot, dude. I'm sorry. What do you What What's it on? Break it down for me. The 250 is on what? So, we have we

have uh I have a 401k loan that has about 21,000 in it. We have student loans in around 80,000. We have a car that's around 36.

And then we have legal fees, things that that we've both had to acquire uh over the course of a few years. It's around 20,000. And then uh we have we did

purchase a house and we've added some some debt there as far as just furniture and appliances and things that we're we're trying to get off. And that's the lowest hanging fruit of around 8.

>> Okay. >> We're looking looking around 200 250,000 that's just sitting out there. And then uh on top of that is is I have a a child with a former relationship and and that one takes out a huge chunk of our uh

available money. What's your uh what's your household income?

>> So, we sit around before uh before

taxes, well, we about $200,000, but if you take out uh child service or child payments and things like that, it's around 175. So, we bring home uh after

taxes around 11.

>> Okay. And significant other, what's that

mean? >> Uh my fiance.

>> Yeah. So, there's not a wei then until you're married. What's the wedding date?

>> That has not been set yet.

>> Why?

>> Uh, we've had a a run of things that's happened in both of our lives and we just have that's been pushed. Um, >> but you bought a house together.

>> That we did. We did buy a house.

>> That's more difficult than getting married. >> I don't disagree with you. It's also dumber than crap because you're going to get yourself into a mess buying stuff with somebody you're not married to.

>> And so, and so you're trying to act like you're So, okay. Um, the legal

implications, the relational implications, and the career implications of trying to do this without being married, the data is all stacked against you. So, that is one thing that you're that you're out over your skis on, one thing that you're trying to go uphill on. And the data is

really, really clear. And there's a lot of research on this. Uh, nobody seems to be talking about it because it's unpopular to talk about. So, everybody gets pissed at me when I talk about it, but I can it's kind of like my spiritual gift, so it's okay. Um, the So, that

that that's one thing. Um, and legal fees, has that all that's all

from child support issues and other things in the past?

>> Uh, primarily mine. I've spent a decade fighting for my first daughter in my first marriage. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Is that over?

>> No, sir. >> So, there's ongoing legal fees.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> Yeah. The state of Texas stacks it against the father. So, >> sure. Yeah. Yeah. The um

uh Okay. How much of the 175 is you and how much is her? >> Uh I make >> You just broke up. You broke up. Try it again. I make 120 and she brings home 80. So,

we're sitting at the 200. Okay.

>> But I take out the 25 because that's the the child support. >> Yeah, that's got to come out. Yeah, >> that is correct. >> Do not pass go. Do not go to jail. Yeah.

Okay, >> that is correct. >> The All right, I'm good with that. Um, take care of the kid. That's a good thing. So, how much of how much is being

put into your 401ks?

Uh I have a employer match and mine's

every paycheck I get paid weekly. Mine goes around 175 a week and then that's

uh 6% so they match up to 6%. So I just

make the match. >> Okay. >> And then she's she's at four they match at 4%. So she's at 4% of hers.

>> Okay. All right. Well here's the thing.

Um you can do what you want to do but you called and asked. So, we're going to be truthful with you cuz we love you and we want you to win. And um uh what would

I do if I woke up in your shoes knowing what I know now is um I had to come to

grips when I went broke years ago with the idea of if I keep doing what I've been doing, I'm going to keep getting what I've been getting. So, for something to change, something's got to change. Agreed.

>> Agreed. And so and and then you can add with that formula then the more radically you change things the more

radically things will change.

>> That make sense? >> And so in other words, the more bizarre you get and the more your friends are looking at you like you've joined a cult and lost your mind, um the the probably

the more progress you're going to make away from being stuck, which is where you are right now.

So, that's that's the, you know, the decision-making framework that I'm going to give this advice in. And then you got to pick and choose. And uh but I promise you, if you will go do every single thing I'm getting ready to tell you, in um let's see, 3 years you'll be 100%

debtree, not counting the house. In um

in four years, you'll have substantial assets. In 12 years, you'll be a millionaire.

>> Okay. Okay, >> I'm all ears. >> So, the first thing I do is get married this weekend. Merry Christmas. Ho ho ho.

>> Merry Christmas. >> There we go. You know that simple. And um Rachel's uh anniversary is this coming Friday, so you can get married on Rachel Cruz's anniversary if you want.

There you go. So, um she got she's Christmas wedding. It was a lot of fun.

So, um gather up some friends. You all been doing this for a while. You've been playing house for a while. It's time to be grown-ups now. You're not college students sleeping around. You go. It's time to do this. Okay. So, uh, and then then you're combined. You're locked legally. You're committed into the future. You develop a shared set of

goals, a desired future, where you want to go. I would stop all 401k contributions temporarily. I would get on a detailed written plan called a

budget. I'm going to give you every dollar as your wedding gift. It's our the world's best budgeting and finance app. And it's also going to walk you not only do the budget, but it's also going to walk you through the stuff I'm teaching you. Okay? I would sell everything in sight.

No more renovations, no more furniture, no more nothing. Beans and rice, rice

and beans. You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. You're not going on vacation. That's for dad gum sure. You are broke people and you've got to clean this up. I'd look at selling this car

probably just almost symbolically. It's

not as much of the money issue as it is.

It's just stupid in the middle of all this. And it's really the only thing you got you can sell. You can't sell the lawyer or the credit cards or the 401k.

So, um, and and then I'm just going to list these debts smallest to largest.

And I'm going to squeeze every dollar out of my life. And like you said, I'm going to knock off the lowhanging fruit first. Take the littlest, smallest to the largest, and go in that order and get in absolute crazy attack mode. Hang

on, Christian. will pick up and

uh help you out with all those gifts.

Give him a Total Money Makeover book, too. And Ken, um if you'd shut up, I

could talk.

I was going to say, what do I add to that? [laughter] I just slow clap like you made a par putt.

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Hunter is in Cincinnati. Hey Hunter, what's up? >> Hello Mr. Ramsey. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Hi. Um so I am recently married within

the past 3 months and I my wife has um

loans, student loans and car payments

and we are in debt. Um I personally have

zero debt and I owe nobody anything. And

um we are married but living separately

by choice because we wanted to knock out this debt before we went in and decided to buy a house or something. So I wanted to see what your advice would be for us to knock out this debt um before jumping into buying a

house.

>> You you you got married three months ago and you don't live with your wife

>> unfortunately. No, we are in a very

special situation where we're lucky enough that both of our parents still let us live at our respective parents houses. So, we're weekend warriors is what I call it. Um, I also have a pretty

>> Hold on a second. Hold on, hold on, hold up, hold up. What is weekend warrior?

I'm afraid to ask this, but I got to know. >> They get to see each other on the weekend. >> You guys go to one of the other's parents' house on the weekend?

>> Yes. Yes.

Are you in different cities, honey?

>> We are in different states.

>> Okay. Where are we going to live when we get married? >> Uh plan planning on We are already married, but planning on >> Not really.

>> You're still married to your >> um planning on living in Ohio. Granted, I am a professional basketball player. Um

and I have been for the past two years.

Now, my wife has a nineto-five job and we are we got married very quickly so she could join in in a contract for me to play overseas, but I didn't get the contract that I expected. So, now we're kind of standing here married but not living together. >> So, your your your professional life is overseas playing ball.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. And but right now you

don't have a job.

>> I do. So, I I am working for a friend.

Um, he owns an auction business and

uh he pays me in cash and I just work the hours that I can and the hours that I want, but I've been increasing those hours and days because I want to be

better for, god willing, our future family. >> What is the I'm so There's so many things to talk about. What What is the What's the future on the basketball contract? When does that come up again?

Um, so I signed a small contract coming

up here in the months of February, March, April, and May. Um, and that will

be in the United States. And they're

providing housing for my wife and I for those month for those months. And then I will be getting um uh before tax.

>> Is that in the Is that in the uh NBA uh sub league? I've forgotten what it's called now, but is that what that is?

It's the league right below the one that you're thinking of.

>> So it's Yes. So you're way down low. So how much money? This is not a lot of money. And that's why I asked that. How much is that contract for for those few months? >> Uh well it would be three grand a month

before tax. >> So what do you what do when do you go when you're when you're in Europe? What do you make?

>> Um it really depends on the league and it depends on >> what have you made in the past?

uh made 2400 a month and then the last

one was at a thousand a month.

>> So you're not going overseas for that when you can make money in the NBA development league.

>> So what is your what's your what's your career plan? Because those all suck.

>> Um my career plan is eventually I

actually want to become a preacher.

>> Okay. All right. Um but I I

>> How much debt does How much debt does your wife have in emergency in in student loans?

>> Uh so in two loans, one is a little over

5,000, another is 13.

>> Mhm. >> And then federal aid and student loan is

5,000 and then uh car payment with 5,000

left. >> Okay. And so you're planning on base camp to be Ohio.

>> Yes, sir. where you live right now.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. Well, the best way to

um attack this financial situation is to

create a more symbiotic relationship. And that would mean that you and your wife go get an apartment tomorrow and you actually live together seven days a week because what you're doing is unbelievably weird.

Yeah, you're telling me. [laughter] >> Well, wait a second. So, I got to ask really quick, and we're not picking on you, but I really want to know. You called and you're used to coaching.

>> If you responded to Dave's comment that way, believe me, I know that leads me to believe, tell me if I'm wrong, that this is not an arrangement that you came up with. This isn't your idea. Or am I wrong?

>> It is both of our ideas. It Okay.

>> Again, I we I was anticipating this

contract to come by. That's why part of the reason why we got married so early.

The main reason is because we both believe in God and we wanted to be married. Um, but when I was negotiating

it, it did not go the way that I anticipated. >> No, listen listen listen listen. I get it. I got to tell you something.

You need to choose which. First of all, I don't think you should be in either parents house, but you should choose one and live together. Let's get this thing going. You, as a pastor, you would never tell a young couple to do what you're doing, would you?

>> No, you wouldn't. and you need to get like an apartment and you need to leave your parents, both of you. >> Yeah.

and move to, you know, move towards becoming a pastor and moving on. So, I appreciate that you wanted to get married rather than shacking up. I appreciate that. Thank you for that.

Good man. Good idea. Bad idea to live

separately and in order for to pay off the debt. That is not No, no, no. And apparently there's not room or it's not conducive to a married couple for for you guys to be at either family's house, which is suits me fine, too. I recommend all young people go get a life away from

their parents, married and unmarried, especially married.

>> Go get a life. I >> And and that's going to make you more money and it's going to make your career blossom because it's going to make your manhood and your relationship blossom.

And um you know you she's got to be away from her mommy and so do you. And you know mommy can just email recipes and that's about it. Over the fence. That's it. And that's you guys really really really need to uh uh you're going to do

better to answer your basic to get her out of debt. You guys out of debt. You phrase that properly. but from the debt that she brought in faster when you're working together, even with an apartment rent. Because you're both going to be looking at this going, I'm gonna work all the time and when I get home, I'm going to see my wife and I'm going to work all the time and I'm going to get home I'm going to see my wife and we don't do thousand a month stuff in 2025

and call that professional. That's slightly above hobby. Yeah, I was going to say professionally speaking, I have a good friend who was in DA baseball many years ago. He and his wife straight out of college and they gave it a timeline.

They both sat down and said, "All right, we're going to give it this much time and they were going to put some measurables on it." And you know, you've played at the European level or wherever you've played internationally and now you're in the lowest development league.

You know what the odds are, but you got to have somebody in your life, coach on that team, the general manager up the line. Let's put a real number on how long we're going to give this. And you've got to work extra like Kurt Warner, the famous now Hall of Fame quarterback, stocking shelves. This has been done before, but you need some real measurables on the basketball side.

And your wife, now we agree, this is how much we're going to give it. This is what we're going to do together. She needs to be on the road with you. Like Dave said, you guys need to be in this together.

You guys can scrape by uh on this three grand a month and hustle and learn how bad this situation is. I think you've got to be together. I just really wanted to hit that. But I think you have got to get to a point pretty quickly where we go, we're going to realistically measure what my opportunity is in professional basketball that's here and abroad.

Give it a time length, get retested, and see if there's something there. And if it's not, it's going to be hard to give it up.

>> I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. So I

can't tell somebody else to do it. It's that simple.

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John's in Louisville, Kentucky. Hey, John. How are you?

>> I'm doing okay, Dave. It's a pleasure to speak with you guys. >> You, too, sir. What's up?

Well, uh, I had a a series of unfortunate events this year and, uh, I just really want to try to get some advice on if I'm making the right decision for me and my family. Uh, I'm a

single income earner, family of four, me, my wife, and my two sons. And, um,

at the beginning of the year in uh, March, my company sold out to another company. And uh during the transition, I I was paycheck to pay. I'm still paycheck to paycheck, but I was managing my bills. When my company sold out, I

was weekly pay and then the new company come in and did bi-weekly pay, which set me behind 3 weeks without a paycheck after that last paycheck.

So, I I I limped through that. And then in May, I lost my brother. So,

>> I went from that to a week and a half out with my brother, you know, passing away. And it just from then on, I've been playing the catch-up game. And I've I've got down to not only personal

issues with myself and substance abuse and getting through that. And then now, you know, I'm I'm more than 90 days

behind on every non-essential bill outside of what I need to keep my house lights and things like that going. So,

uh, what my plan is, and me and my wife

have sat down, and we we both agree 100%

is that we want to invest, you know,

it's not going to be a large portion like five, six thou, $7,000 into a

mobile home that we can purchase, own it outright, and place it onto her

grandmother's property, allowing us to have 100% access of my income to try to

nip this out as quick as I can to get that back to square root. But I think the only advantage that I have is I'm I'm sub $15,000 in total debt.

>> So 15,000 clears your debt.

>> Is that what you're saying? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> And what do you make, sir?

>> Uh right now I bring home about 2,200

every two weeks. So 44 a month >> plus every two That's every two weeks.

So, plus two times a year you have 6600.

>> Yes. >> Okay.

And uh what do you do?

>> I'm a truck driver. >> Okay.

All right. And what what does it take to

bring you current?

>> 15 15,000 makes 15,000 makes you debtree, but what brings you current?

To >> bring me current, I'd probably have to be just south of

probably 35 >> $100.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And where would you get the 5,000 to buy the trailer?

>> Well, that's what speaking with my wife,

we agreed to take what we potentially could get back on our income taxes next year to try to just wean it out. I know it's a short matter of time before these things will go into collections and

I figured that once we got >> What kind of debt is it?

>> I'm sorry. >> What kind of debt is it that you're behind on?

>> I have uh two personal loans and uh credit cards and well I take that but three personal loans and credit cards and then my wife has credit cards as well. >> How much How much is your rent?

>> My rent is 1,600.

Okay. So, you're not talking about making this move. Well, now I guess you would file your taxes after the first of the year. So, you get the money probably in February, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Which would also be enough to catch you up.

>> Like close to it. Yeah. As long as I could find a cheap enough and, you know, something that would accommodate us.

>> No, no. I'm just saying if you didn't buy the trailer and you stayed in the rental, >> you could use the refund and be caught up.

Uh, close to it. Not not all the way. I don't know. >> No. You said you're 3500 behind and you're talking about buying a $5,000 trailer. What's your refund going to be?

Which is it?

>> I'd say it's probably 67,000. That's I

mean it is >> Does that 6 or7,000 makes you current?

>> So that would bring my loans back up to current. >> Yeah. And you don't have to buy a trailer.

>> I see that. But I mean, the trailer was an end goal for us anyway to get out of paying rent to uh to try to move on to purchasing property after we did, you know, paid off what we owed. I figured once we could move into the trailer, then we could wipe out pretty much every debt within a mere month and a half, two months. >> That's probably pretty close to true.

Okay. Um, [clears throat] yeah, I'll

tell you this. You've done a really good job of analyzing and knowing where you are. I'm proud of you. You've really got your fingers around this >> cuz you're pretty stressed. And in the middle of that stress, you've still done a good job of laying out a game plan and thinking it through. I don't have a real fault with any of your reasoning. Um, so

here here's what I would add to this.

Okay. Sometimes I have seen people do stuff like this and then they don't play

all the way through and you have to make

a commitment that we are going to be in this trailer no longer than 24 months.

>> 24 months. Me and my wife was thinking somewhere along the lines of 3 to 5 years. >> Okay. 3 36 months.

>> 36 months. Not 3 to five. Not a vague number. >> Okay. >> Put a date on the calendar. We are out of this trailer and we're going to do whatever it takes. Extra jobs, no vacations. We're going to be debtree, have an emergency fund and a good down payment on a house and get out of this trailer because otherwise you're going to end up raising your kids in a trailer that you didn't want to buy.

>> Right. >> And you don't want to do that. You don't want to look back in 10 years slips away and you know it can.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. What what needs to happen for her to be able to work?

Um, right now me and her agree that

because of the pricing of child care that it would it wouldn't really be with

she is in school. She is learning going while she's back in school trying to uh finish out the the studies that she chose. But right now me and her agreed >> she wants to be a phabotamist.

[sighs] >> What's that going to turn into? Let's assume she has that degree today. What job is she getting?

uh she would basically, you know, be the person that would draw people's blood in doctor's offices or hospitals.

>> And how long does it take her to get that certification?

>> Uh right now is as long as cuz the the school that she is in is kind of like a pay as you go thing. So like I said, everything that's not essential to the house, I've kind of just stopped.

>> Yeah. >> So right now she's not in school, so why put her to work right now?

Well, she she has she does um like

delivering [clears throat] packages as kind of a contract job and that that helps make up a little bit, but as far as finding someone to take care of our children. >> How old are the boys?

>> Uh my youngest will be two on the 19th of this month and then my oldest is four. >> Okay. You got littles. Okay. That makes a difference. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Um so here's the thing.

Here's what you want to do. You want to put a deadline on the trailer if you're going to do it. Um, I'm not sure I would do it, but I'm not sure I wouldn't do it. But if I did do it, I don't want to get stuck there. I want to make enough radical changes in our lives that we move away from that time in our life and it's in the rearview mirror forever.

>> Okay. Um, you guys have been through hell and the crummy year that you've had

has highlighted for you that living paycheck to paycheck is no way to live.

It's no fun.

>> Not at all. >> And so when Sharon and I went through going broke, we had a never again moment. And I want to make sure that you guys, you the two of you hold hands tonight and look each other in the face and say never again. We're going to step into a trailer for 24 to maximum of 36.

But never again are we going to be here.

We're going to work like crazy people and we're going to have goals and we're going to live on less than we make and we're not buying anything on debt. Never again are we going to be back here. We have an emergency fund so that a lousy

10 grand doesn't put completely stand us on our head.

>> Yes, sir. >> Cuz $20,000 would change your whole life right now.

>> Yes, sir. >> That's how that's how quick this could turn. You didn't call me up with 300,000. You called me up with 15,000

and 3500 gets you current. So, you can do this, man. And I'm telling you, you have a good brain. The brain you used to work through this was excellent.

I'm proud of you. And you go now, now go play through and look back a decade from now and go, that was the time, the year my brother died and they laid and and they changed my pay. I said, "Never again." And that's what Sharon and I did. We look back, we said, "Never again." 1988.

No way I'm reliving that freaking year. There's a bankruptcy filing on the wall right across from me in the office right here. I'm not doing that crap again.

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>> Hey, thanks for having me on. Longtime listener. >> Thank you, sir. How can we help?

Well, I'm uh 58 years old. I've been divorced now for a little over five years. And I've been dating a lady who is 57 and she is a surviving widow.

Um she uh if we get married before we're

six before she is 60, she uses all of her loes all of her surviving spouse uh social security benefits. and he was a big contributor up until he was about 58 years old. So, she would receive the max. And I've heard your your conversations today with uh people about getting married and how the chances are of divorce if you don't get married within a certain point of time.

And we've been dating now for a little over two years.

for the rest of her life.

What's your household income or what's your income? I'm sorry.

>> My income is about $150,000 a year.

>> And what's her income?

>> Her income is just living off of what uh she she got and she's down to a little over 600,000. And uh

>> Okay. What's your nest egg? >> It's about money.

>> My nest egg is I've recovered to just a little over a million in my retirement account and I have no debt and I have a paid for house. It's a little old house here in Texas worth about uh 400,000.

>> Okay. Have you all been discussing marriage prior to this this thought pattern here?

>> Sure. Yes, sir. We'd been dating for for a little over two years and fell in love immediately and uh >> Mhm. >> been talking to both of our parents about it and both of our family. She's got two stepkids and I have two step because of course of course they're all grown. Everybody loves each other and doing great. >> That's good. >> But >> okay, I'll tell you you ask a question and I'll give you a straight answer. The

um >> Sure. >> The way I try to do stuff and Max, you said you're a longtime listener so you know this. I try to put my I've never been in your situation. I'm 65. Um so

we're fairly close in age, but if I try to put myself in your position, what would I do if I were in your shoes? And

um for me the joy of uh a lifetime comp companion that I'm in love with um supersedes 48 grand a year.

>> Sure. >> And for me that's called marriage. I'm a person of faith and that's called marriage. And I don't have any confusion about that at all in my mind or in my spirit. Either one. Um, for me, I don't want to look at her dad in the eyes. Um,

unless I'm saying this is my wife. Um,

for me, uh, and I can't make that be for

you. You've got to decide that. Um, you guys are, you know, you're going to have a net worth of $2.5 million,

uh, or more and a really good household

income. Uh, and you don't have to have

the 48,000.

It's just a minor thing. Um, and so for

me, it's just for 50 grand, what can I buy? I can buy a marriage license and 50

grand a year. But, um, but, you know,

uh, uh, >> well, we're trying to take that into account to where we need to retire. We both, you know, since we just found each other late, we're trying to figure that into retirement.

>> You got two and a half million dollars to retire off of. I think you're going to be all right.

Well, the way we figure that out, too, is is uh it's not necessarily the the

220,000 a year. It's uh of course the broker has to take a fee of 1% and then it's taxed and we'd have to get our have to get our income up pretty good to have net of what we feel like we'd like to be able to enjoy. But I >> Which way were which way were you leaning before you called us?

>> Obviously, he didn't want to marry her.

Yeah. >> I'm just curious. >> Oh, no. I do want absolutely All you did, you answered my question with numbers >> telling me why you shouldn't do it. And I that's that tells me what you want to do. So, no, I mean, you do what you want to do. Uh I'm going to be mad at you either way. We'll still be friends. But um but the uh but I personally

I I just see a tremendous spiritual, relational, emotional, and even financial value in being married. More

than 48 grand a year.

I just do. I I just think it's valuable.

And if I were 57 and had met the person

I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, there's no way I'm letting her freaking get away over some math nerd

stuff with my financial planner, you know, trying to figure out, well, I got to pay him 1%. Who gives a crap? If you don't want to pay him 1%, don't pay him.

But don't lose her either.

>> Well, I think it's really clear for our audience to understand what how we view marriage. And no judgment here, but my guess is that they're living together.

And so when you've already made that decision, we're living together, fell in love with her early, they've been dating two years, I'm reading between the lines, it's probably what's going on. So therefore, this is all about a money question. And we're coming at this not from a money answer, not in the situation. It's just the way we see things. So >> yeah, but here's here's the other thing.

It is. It does end up being a money thing, especially maybe not in his situation exactly, but as much, but in when I'm talking to these 24 year olds and whatever and you know, we've been we've been living together for four years. >> Yeah. Great. Okay. But all the data says when you're 46 that that that you missed out on hundreds of thousands of dollars.

>> That's right. >> For that 24 year old. Okay. So, the the it is math, too. and and I've got to think that the marriage advantage >> plays into this situation. Although I can't put my finger on exactly where it will, but I'm thinking it's 50 grand a year easy. >> Mhm. >> Um that the working together, the combining of forces.

>> Yes. >> The combining of how we're going to get at this. I just I think it has a monetary value. That would not be my motivation.

To your point, though. >> That's all I'm saying. I agree with you. >> It's not it's not the driving decision making.

>> We just happen to have a position that the money plays out as well. In other words, we think this is a moral decision that also has money implications in the positive. And it's not our opinion, by the way. Dave's right.

>> Yeah. Now, the um the 35year-old, as an

example, it's not Max's situation again, right? >> But the 35year-old that is married has

13 times the net worth of an unmarried

35-year-old. >> Yeah, >> there it is.

That means shacked up and that means single and that means divorced and that means widowed. It could be anything. But

an unmarried 35-year-old has 13 times

less money on average in America. It's a huge advantage.

>> Married men live 9 years longer on

average than unmarried men. Deloney

thinks it's because wives keep us from doing stupid stuff. >> There's no question. [laughter] I don't think that's the singular issue, but clearly a key issue. >> You're going to eat that?

>> Yes, I'm going to eat that.

>> It's really true. >> And I'm going to have two of them.

[laughter] >> Or this is the one that I get a lot.

You're going to try that? Are you aware of how old you are? [laughter] You know, it's like the thing that could cause a lot of bodily harm, which might begin the downfall. Stacey, >> that's an actual That's an actual number. And married ladies only live four years longer than unmarried ladies.

So, it extends male. Uh, >> what is it that we do for women? Let's let's let's get something a score for the men here. What do we do that allows women to live longer? >> I What do you think? >> I suspect um I I don't higher net worth.

>> I could either. So, yeah. No idea.

That's Deloney's take on it. I don't know. I mean, but seriously, there there's all this data on your your uh

>> your not only your in oh incomes, married men's incomes are way higher

than unmarried men's incomes. Way higher. And I suspect that's because there's a lash on their back. I don't know.

I got it, Dave. It just came to me. The reason that married women live four years longer, if I got that right, is because they have more purpose in continually trying to take care of us and raise us. [laughter] The maternal instinct of a married woman remains strong even after their children leave cuz they're taking care of us.

I think that's what it is. I'm going to stick to >> They have purpose. There it is. >> They have purpose.

>> That's what it is. [laughter] You >> You're probably on to something.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Brad is with us in Chicago. Hey Brad, how are you >> doing? Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh so my question is uh should we or should you ever borrow money uh for your tithe? >> Why would you have to do that?

>> Uh so so we own a business and we've we

had a a pretty successful year. Um, but we bought some equipment and we paid

cash for that which kind of left us a little bit uh cash depleted um here in

December to be able to what I like to do

is give you know at least 10% not more.

Um so my question would be >> you give 10% of your net profit right?

>> Yeah. Yep. >> Well purchasing equipment lowers your net profit does it not?

Uh, yeah. I mean, but but I would

depreciate it over seven years.

>> But that's a tax issue. That's not a tithe issue. If I spend a million dollars on a piece of equipment, I don't have the million dollars anymore.

[clears throat] >> Correct. But if I look at my income

statement, it would still show, you know, a pretty healthy profit. >> But the tithe is not on that. The tithe is not on taxable income. The tithe is on net increase according to Deuteronomy.

If we're getting technical, I mean, I assume you're asking a technical biblical question, and so I'm approaching it from that angle. To start with, I'm not a a Pharisee about this, and I don't think God is either.

>> Um, I'm pretty sure based on my study of scriptures that God loves a cheerful giver, and he loves and he loves tithers as much as he loves non-tithers. And when I when in doubt, I overgive because when I get up there, I don't want to be wrong. It's not any harder than that for me. Okay? So, it's not I don't try to figure it out too much. I tithe on my taxable cash flow income. And so if I

spend a million dollars on a piece of equipment, regardless of what the IRS says, they don't get to enter into the discussion on my spiritual walk. For God's sakes, >> really. >> Yeah. >> And so, yeah. So, I mean, I I don't really care what the Ebidai is, and I don't care what the the venture capitalist says. All I care is what's my net increase?

And I do that prior to taxes, what my net cash flow is for the year. And um

and usually not counting depreciate depreciation issues, it would be your taxable income uh was would be what you would deal with again with a lot of grace and mercy because this is more that. But no, I would never borrow money because there's a lot of indications in scripture not to borrow money. And so to borrow money and

go against one scripture in order to keep another scripture is oxymoronic. So

no, we wouldn't do that ever. But just the point is you don't need to if you just define tithing a little differently. So to start with and and Ken, you're a pastor's kid. I want to get your >> Yeah, my theological theological upbringing as a PC, but the or PK, but the uh um >> seriously I I am a tither.

Okay, I'm an evangelical Christian and I believe in giving a tenth of your income to your local church. And as I study tithing, it is a New Testament thing. I believe I have good friends that disagree with me and they're wrong. Um I we have all these wonderful arguments, uh Christian arguments, right, that are fun.

>> And the purpose of the tithe is not so that God loves you more. And the purpose of the tithe is certainly not salvation.

And a tither is not a better Christian than a non-tither. None of that applies because we're all walking, we're all sinners saved by grace, those of us that are Christians. Okay? And that's what we call ourselves. So, we're all walking in this abundance of grace and mercy. So, why does God have us to give? He has us to give to practice being a giver.

I will say that my challenge if I understood Brad correctly my challenge with his question of course we're not going to borrow so that's honestly nonsensical and non-biblical however the

con the principle of tithing is about the first fruits first fruits >> so I don't think it's okay to spend a million dollars on equipment and not have any money left over to actually you know so I get taxable income I don't disagree with you >> said yeah it is first rich meaning off the top, but it's off the top of your profits. >> I understand. >> Deuteronomy and first fruits are in the same thing. >> I understand.

>> So Deuteronomy says of your net increase. >> I I totally agree. But in a business kind here's where I'm sticking. >> First the first part of your net increase.

>> Spent on a really >> No, that's not a net increase. If if I if I increase payroll, >> then I I've increased my expenses and my business did not profit as much, >> right? >> So I don't need to tithe before I pay the payroll. I tie the after I pay the payroll and I tie that the very first dollar of profit after I pay the payroll.

That's the first part.

>> It's not first before expenses.

>> I agree with that. But what I'm getting at is is that you I think as a steward of your business need to manage your books. Payroll is one thing, a really expensive piece of equipment. I think to be able to say, "Well, I brought in all this money and I had all these expenses." Uh I I I have a challenge

with that. I know you don't agree with me, but I I'm challenged by that.

>> How do you I don't know enough about his equipment. >> I don't either, but maybe you're saying he bought too much stuff and and took his margins down to nothing. That's what I'm saying. >> Now, that might be risky. Okay. But I mean, out of the 300,000 that Ramsay takes in, I don't take anywhere near that >> and we and we agree we agree on that.

>> Most of it leaves in expenses. Okay.

>> No, I completely and salaries and everything else. I don't I don't just because a company has revenue of 300 300 million said 300,000 300 million just because it has 300 million in revenue doesn't mean I get 300 million >> right >> that's not a that's not how that works >> but then but then the and again and I'm again I didn't get to follow up but my point is I'd want to know what that spending is on because in your case it's not willy-nilly and we're trying to get out of the second thing is the tithe also is what he pays himself assuming he's paying himself something.

>> Yeah, that's what it should be on. >> So the tithe is on what you pay yourself. So I I just wanted to circle up on that. But I again equipment is equipment.

You got to do it.

Yeah. It doesn't matter at the end of the day when in doubt up the tithe. But uh you know like for instance we >> he should be tithing personally.

>> I'll go ahead and take it a step further since you and I are having this discussion because it's fun. >> I we teach entree leaders. Yeah.

>> To hold back some of their profits in retained earnings. >> Correct. >> Savings. >> Yeah. to run the business. Well, >> yeah. >> And I would not tithe on that until you

take it home.

>> I don't, by the way. Yeah.

>> Until I take it home because it could be spent in the business. It's here to protect the business and could be it's it could end up being an expense, >> right? >> Like during COVID, it was an expense because we had to cover payroll, right?

We used retained earnings, so some of it. So, the uh that kind of stuff. So, and and that's taxable in >> correct. That's right. You know, you don't get the the IRS taxes you on that whether you take it home or not. Yeah. So, it's an interesting discussion. But the big thing is is the good on you for thinking about it. That's right. Good on you for loving your faith walk and your God enough that you even care about the answer to the subject.

>> Uh and good on you for being generous.

>> But to borrow to pay a tithe is missing

the principle of the tithe. >> It's missing the whole thing. Yeah.

Absolutely. Then you're bankrized for you. Oh, I think I'm going to puke a little. [laughter]

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[music]

Alicia is in Maine. Merry Christmas, Alicia. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I recently found out I'm pregnant with our second child.

>> Yay.

>> Yeah, we're excited about it. Uh, [snorts] only thing is our house is pretty small. It's about 900 square ft.

So, we've been trying to rack our brains on how to either expand it or be able to afford a new house, but my husband is

the sole provider and he makes, you know, he's a mechanic, so he doesn't make a ton, but um so we're just really stuck and don't know how to make enough income to bridge the gap in between where we're at now

and if we lose the assistance by making

more money. Why does him being a mechanic mean he doesn't have money? It should mean he does have money.

>> Unfortunately, in our area where we live, um, we're in rural Maine. There's

not a lot of opportunities for them to make a lot of money.

>> Did Did [clears throat] I hear you just say losing assistance if he made more money? >> Yeah, we're like in this >> weird place where if we make a little bit more money, >> then we lose assistance from the state.

I am unfortunately well-versed in government uh programs. So you were on some type of welfare.

>> Yeah. So my daughter is under main care

which is like a insurance is a huge expense here. >> Okay. >> As I'm sure a lot of other places um we

save we get about $400 or $500 worth of

assistance per month if you count the health care and the wick.

You're you're not going to do this,

>> but here's what you should do.

>> You should move.

[laughter] >> Told you. >> I know. It's so hard cuz it's not hard.

>> It's not hard. People who are broke and have no opportunity in an area have moved to an area where there was opportunity and economic growth since time began.

>> Yeah.

the chances that I'm going to let my wife and child be on welfare because and

live in a 900 foot home because I can't make any money because we live in an area that doesn't support a normal mechanic salary or zero. I'm going to

load up the truck and head to Beverly.

>> Yeah. >> How long has your family How long has your family been in the area?

>> My family has been here.

Like I mean my grandparents are from here. >> Okay. So a long long time. Have have you seen many people get out?

>> A lot of my generation has left.

>> Why do you think they've left?

>> Yeah, I know. It's because of the opportunities. >> Okay. So you really are you called us for one reason and I think you didn't expect this but I mean this really Dave is absolutely right. You can't call and

say, "How do we increase our income to get a little bit bigger house here in a 900 foot place if you aren't willing to

get off of government income?" >> And you're right, they will penalize you. That's the whole point of benefits.

They're going to cap you and and then you get stuck in this cycle. So det

I know your husband's probably not a diesel mechanic. He's probably a car mechanic, but I talked to a diesel mechanic the other day making 120 a year. They ain't on welfare.

>> One of them can make good money.

>> They ain't on welfare. >> And we don't we don't want to live on welfare. That's our thing. Like I don't want to get into real estate.

>> But you're okay with it.

>> I'm okay with it for now because we don't really have another option.

>> He gave you one.

>> Okay. If he's a mechanic, he can have another option for you if you stay there. I do agree. >> I just want to get rid of this. You he if he can turn a wrench, >> he can do HVAC. He can do electrical. He can do plumbing. I'm telling you, he can learn the trades. >> The trades are exploding and you simply need to change zip codes in order to change your income. It's that simple.

I'd go get a dieselert in a heartbeat and and be in a major metro area and buy an airline ticket and come home and see grandma every so often. >> Come on. I mean, I could keep going welding.

I mean, a roof.

>> 160,000 a year.

>> It's unbelievable the money people are making. >> Yeah. By the way, >> makes some of these lawyers look bad.

>> I mean, you know the joke about the plumber and the lawyer, right? >> I'd like to hear it. actually pl lawyer called a plumber and he came in and he in 30 seconds he fixed the sink and he said that's $350 and he goes well that that's like $2,000 an hour. He goes I I don't make that. I'm a lawyer. He goes I didn't either when I was a lawyer.

[laughter] >> Yeah, Mike would love that. That's great. You know, in all honesty, Dave, you talk let's just I'm just throwing this out there because I think this affects our larger audience when you start getting outside of Wait a second.

Dave just told us to move. All right. If you go from Maine and we get real crazy and we go to the nearest big metrop metropolitan area in the Northeast, Boston, this is one of the wealthiest cities in the United States, they need tradesmen. And to Dave's point, if you're willing to go to the big city and in surrounding areas, by the way, it doesn't have to be in Boston proper.

Make big bucks, come back and see the family. It's that simple. Look it up.

What a tradesman would make in Boston.

what a what a car mechanic working at a Chevy dealership makes. It's a lot more than you're making, honey. They're not on welfare, I promise. So, um yeah, you

you guys have got to make some changes in order for changes to happen. If you keep doing the same thing over and over again, you expect a different result. I don't know if there is a way for him to maximize his income in your area, but I think you know, and I think you know there's not cuz I don't think your man's lazy.

That's not what I said. I don't think he's got opportunity in his field.

>> That's why I asked her the question, by the way. If you see people leaving, >> why >> why are they leaving? [laughter] >> Yeah. >> You know, >> and um sadly, I mean, it's happening to small town USA everywhere. >> It is. >> But it is the reality of economics.

>> It's just >> and when when when there is a lack of opportunity, people move. John Gisham had a uh an old book out years ago, you know, he's a a fiction writer. There's a fiction book called Painted House, but he talks about it was about a cotton a kid growing up uh in Arkansas cotton fields >> and uh dirt poor, you know, white trash.

>> And um grew up and he talks about the

cousin that moved away to Detroit. This is in the 1940s in the Great Depression in the Dust Bowl, right? and the cousin that moved away to Detroit and he came back wearing a fancy suit, driving a brand new car, working in the car factory and had married a Yankee wife, >> you know, and that's what they talk about when he's coming back. But that was a classic example of what you call a diaspora, >> which is where people move due to war.

That's right. >> Or due to weather. Katrina caused uh

Cajun restaurants to be all over America because people left New Orleans and never went back. Yeah. Because everything was torn down. the levies broke. The whole place is flooded. It was a mess. And they just said, "Screw it. I'm out of here." And consequently, there's cinjun all over America that weren't planning to be. And you know, you've got economics, you've got weather, you've got um all kinds of

other issues that drive it, but sometimes it's just opportunity. Well, let's not forget, Dave, I'm so glad you took us there. Let's not forget the the origins of this great nation as it really began to to really explode after colonial times. We're talking about the Statue of Liberty. talking about the Irish, Scots, the Italians. I mean, New York is the melting pot that it is because people from across the globe said, "We're going to leave family and thousands of years of tradition to go

have an opportunity." So, we're asking somebody to leave rural Maine. Let's not forget how America gets where we are today. It was because people left their homeland. We're talking countries that have been around forever and said, "I'm going for opportunity." And it was desperate. You're getting on a ship.

>> Yeah. >> And going across the Atlantic. I mean, that's >> Yeah. And you may or may not make it.

Yeah. >> 100%. >> Absolutely. This is real stuff, y'all.

And it's not just picking on Alicia and her husband, but it was just something to talk about. I It kind of comes back to this thing, too. I can't afford a house. Well, where do you live?

I live in San Francisco. Well, of course you can't afford a house. You have to be in the top 1% of income earners to buy a house in San Francisco right now. I live in downtown Manhattan in New York, right?

>> Not unless you make 200 grand. You don't. Um, you know, you're going to have to be in Abalene, Texas. Honey, hello.

And, um, you know, you're going have to go somewhere where you can afford to live.

economics don't fit. And you can't just decide, well, I'm in California and they don't really do math here. I know they don't do math, but that doesn't mean math doesn't work.

>> [music]

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[music]

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Victoria in New Hampshire. My father-in-law started a business many years ago, but hasn't been actively managing it. So, my husband and I have been running it. The three of us are on the company payroll along with our employees. My father-in-law feels the profit should belong to him because he started the business. We want to include him, but we also need to make wise financial decisions about the money that we, not him, have worked hard to earn

and manage. How can we honor our parents while still being responsible stewards of the business we now run full-time?

[laughter] I had dinner just the other night with our mutual dear friend Henry Cloud and I

can just see boundaries flashing light here. I understand the frustration that we can read into this email. But the reality is the father-in-law did in fact start the business and own it. Still owns it.

>> You don't own it. So, we don't have clear boundaries, uh, professional boundaries as to who does what, why they do it, how they get paid. It's just kind of you guys have all just been going about your business, and now there's tension because there isn't clearly defined lines. And without that, if Dave and I were on some of those, one of those goofy judge shows, I'd be going, "Look, I get your frustration, but this isn't your business.

So, you have very little that you can do here until we sit down with father-in-law and ask for some type of restructuring, at which point he gets to decide what he's going to do with his business. >> Yeah.

>> That's what you're actually saying.

And so, um, we we did not we took it over just as a favor to you >> and we've run it for a while, but um, we need to go on with our lives and our career. And so, we're going to move on.

Um, unless we can work something out to where we become the owners of this, but we're not going to continue to work here as employees because that's what you are.

>> You're not due any of the profits, Victoria. [laughter] >> You're wrong. >> That's right. >> You're wrong. [clears throat] Um, you don't own it. you work for someone else that owns the property, owns the business and you should have changed that when you walked in the door.

>> So now you've got to go back and unspill the milk, which is very difficult.

>> But so the conversation is, "Hey dad, we came in, we stepped up, we helped you out for a while, but that's not working for us long term uh because you keep all the profits and we do all the work." And so we either want to work out something where over the next little while we become the owners through some process that you feel good about and that we feel good about or we're going to have to look for a different career and you're going to have to look for a different manager for your business.

>> Y >> and either one of those is okay. But you guys went in here um and

sat on your assumptions.

And your assumptions were that you were going to be the owner and no one said out loud that you were or weren't. And so you weren't because the title to the business is still in his name. So he is

due 100% of the profits.

He owns the business. You don't own it.

And you have to change that. Um or if you don't change it and don't like the arrangement, you need to move on. Either one of those is fine. And that's not dishonoring or honoring to your parents.

to use stewardship and honor parents.

So, I'm sensing a hyperchristian take on this stuff. And it's not dishonoring to parents to have boundaries.

It's not dishonoring to someone to say, "I don't want to work here." Uh, when someone leaves Ramsay, it's not dishonoring to me unless they intentionally dishonor me. But, I mean, just the fact that they don't want to work here anymore doesn't mean that I'm awful person or that I'm automatically that they that they think I'm an awful person. A lot of times they have something else they want to do that's different. That's all.

And so that's not dishonoring in any way. >> You know, there's something there you've just pulled out that last. How can we honor our parents while still being responsible stewards?

That is a bit of a self-righteous tone that you can clearly see there. And here's the here's the lesson from this.

Unclear expectations lead to bad relations, right? It just >> 100% of anger >> every time because you had this expectation. Your father-in-law had a very different expectation. Nobody got clear about it at least to write it down and get some concrete steps moving forward. Dave, you've nailed it here.

And and >> you get angry when you expect something you didn't get. >> That's it. >> Yeah. Like when you tried to chip shot that shot up onto the green the other day and you missed. Yeah. That that's anger right there. I saw that. You expected you expected that to work and it didn't work. >> Yeah. and I chilly dipped it and it went six yards and it's supposed to be a 35 yard shot. That is that is my expectations. Number one being unrealistic. [laughter] Let's start since we're going to teach out of this.

I don't play golf enough to be good enough to expect it. >> That was just an >> No, but it's actually illustration.

>> It's just mixed metaphors. An underhand pitch, but yeah. So, all right. Yeah.

Too fun. So, that's it. Yeah. The secret to happiness is lowered expectations [laughter] >> and clear ones. Uh, realistic and clear.

That would be your two attributes. [laughter] >> Lisa in Cleveland. Hey, Lisa. What's up?

>> Hi. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Uh, thank you for taking my call. Um, I just uh started listening to you this year and I'm undertaking student loans

for the first time. So, >> good for you. You mean you're you mean you're getting ready to pay them or you're taking them out? >> I'm getting ready to pay them. >> Oh, good. Okay. I'm glad.

starting in January. So, I have a plan all laid out, but I just need a little

bit of um advice. Okay.

>> Um up uh first of all, financial and

then the second of all the um more

spiritual. So, it might be a first on this show. So, um my first question um

financing student loans. Um, should I refinance them or should I just start paying them off starting in what are the interest January?

>> Um, it's 6.25

for both of them. I have a subsidized loan um at $29,4748.

>> You don't refinance student loans unless you get a better interest rate, >> right? I want a lower one. So, >> and if you get a lower one, you get one time one time you can refinance student loans. And so you got to feel really good about the new interest rate that you're going to get.

It's going to be way lower and and if and you don't think interest rates are going down, which they might be, by the way. So I would not refinance right now. I might wait till the end of the year on on government insured.

>> Right. >> Yeah. Okay. So wait till the end of the year and let's see if rates come on down a little more. So if you've got a six and you can get a four and a half, yeah, let's you know, let's get a better rate.

rates not going to save you. What's your balances?

>> Um, so for the the subsidized one is

29,000 and some change and for the unsubsidized one is 50,000 some change.

But the total of 79,000 and some change.

>> So 1% of $79,000

is $700.

So if you save 1% by refinancing, you save $700.

that doesn't go a long way toward paying off 79,000. So, the secret sauce is not

a lower interest rate to getting out of debt. The secret sauce is you dumping

tons of money on these things and getting rid of them fast, >> right? And and that's my goal. So, a little bit of backstory. Um I'm a traveling CNA, certified nursing assistant. >> Good.

>> Um we don't we don't get paid like the nurses do, but you know, that's why I started. You get paid more than staying at home? >> Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Um so I

um been traveling for 8 years. I got these student loans back in my 20s. Um I'm much older now. Um tag on about 15

years. And um three things really jarred

me into like you I mean you listen you got to do it. You got to do it. Yeah. >> Um so I um ended up getting a couple of

travel contracts um in New York and I

get one that you know pays very well through a hospital nursing home and um I

uh with with um overtime I take home

roughly if I get 16 hours a week I take home about $8,000 something dollars.

>> Wow, that's awesome. Live on nothing, kiddo. And dump it on these student loans and clean it up. They've been following you around for too long.

They're not a pet. Let's a victim. Sally May is an ugly woman. Throw her in the street.

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>> [music]

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Hi, Wilson. How are you?

>> Hey, good afternoon, Dave.

>> Afternoon. I'm doing all right.

>> I uh I'm reaching out to you. Uh I've

watched a lot of the episodes online. Um

give a little backstory. My uh father passed away in July. >> I'm sorry. And um Oh, thank you. Um he

uh he divided his estate with uh me and

my two sisters. And I had just bought a

house in July, maybe two weeks into having the house, dad daddy passed away.

Um so, uh my question to you is uh it's

kind of a two-parter. Number one, um I

don't want to get rid of my father's house cuz my two sisters didn't grow up there. I grew up there and uh you know that was the house from all my childhood memories. You know that it's a real sentimental piece to me. Um my two sisters however do want to uh just sell

off the sell off everything. Um it's

kind of a big [clears throat] lot too.

Uh along with dad's house. Uh there's a

house next door that would be my grandma's old house. We're selling that and then it's I guess maybe in total five six acres with a working farm, a

barn, a detached garage. Uh so it's it's

a big chunk of land. Um so I guess first

first off my question is uh what would

you do if you were in my position on that?

Well, your dad's will dictates that everything be split three ways, and generally that means the assets will be sold off. >> So, that was pretty that was pretty much your father's intent.

>> Okay. >> Um, and so I think your sisters are going along with that. Now, what is the the house that you grew up in? What's it worth?

>> Um, we haven't >> Oh, about Give me a number.

Uh, we'll say maybe 600,000.

>> Okay. What's the grandma's house and barn and so forth worth?

>> Uh, grandma's house. I would say

we'll say 200 just for the house. Then if you add on the land, barn, all that, you might be looking at maybe 4 55.

>> Okay. So, this is a million dollars worth of property.

>> And did your dad have other assets, substantial assets?

Uh, not no nothing that would really uh stick out on that. No, sir. >> Okay. So, there's not like $2 million in Exxon stock or something.

>> No, no, sir. No, sir. He uh >> cuz we could give your sisters that and you took the land. I mean, you could divvy it up three ways and you end up with it. But basically, most of the larger portion of almost all of his estate is these two pieces of property, a million dollars worth, right?

>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

>> Okay. So if uh and what is your personal

home worth, Wilson?

>> Uh we'll say right at 300,000.

>> Okay. And what do you make, sir?

>> Um I would say about five 5,500 a month. Uh

my year to date right now is uh I think

I'm right at 70,000.

>> Yeah. Okay.

Um, so the ma the math the math says

this.

>> Yes, sir. >> That you're you lost your dad and it breaks your heart.

>> Yeah. >> And with that, you're not in a position to buy your childhood home and so it's

going to be someone else's home now.

>> Yeah. And you're going to get your memories and your nostalgia

from something other than the family home place.

>> Yeah. >> So, my grandmother uh grew up in a home that was her parents beforehand.

>> My dad grew up in that home.

>> And when my grandmother and grandfather passed away, none of the three brothers and sisters, my dad, aunt, and uncle, had any need of that home. and several acres. A beautiful old place.

>> Um, and they sold it and I was, as one of the grandkids, I was kind of sad.

>> Yeah. >> But it also was a very reasonable thing to do for an adult because you go, I mean, what am I going to do? Move to another town in this old house, old country house, just cuz it's sentimental? No, I'm not. And it doesn't make sense. And so, it needs to be sold and it needs to be divvied up. But there's a sadness that goes with that.

and you've got that sadness combined with the sadness of losing your dad this year. And so it's kind of a >> it's kind of the year of heartbreak for you. And I'm sorry.

>> Um I guess my [clears throat] leading to the other uh question I had um

once I guess all everything's all sold and you know say I get my my portion

whatever check cut today. What would in your opinion what would be a good investment [clears throat] opportunity for me? Like uh >> do you have a mortgage on your home, sir? >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. >> Yeah, I'd pay it off.

>> Okay. >> You have any other debt? >> All right. Um no. Uh my my personal uh

my personal truck I I paid that off last year. >> Yeah. Um, and you know, my fiance, she

uh we've already got the wedding paid for, everything uh coming up in May.

>> Yeah. >> Um, and let me Oh, congratulations on that, by the way. That's good news. So, a new a new fresh start and everything.

And let me encourage you this. Um, I don't think your sisters are bad people.

>> I don't I don't want you to have ill will towards them because they're just doing what your dad said to do.

>> Yeah.

It's not, you know, none of y'all are going to live in that house. You can't afford to. And so they're liquidating it and splitting it three ways. And that's that's what he that's how he had set up his life. >> And so they're not they're not doing anything wrong, sir.

>> So the last thing I want you to do is lose your dad, lose the house, and then lose relationship with your sisters, too. >> Yeah. Wilson, I'm just sitting here listening. I want you to reframe this.

Your dad and his generosity is essentially paying for your first home for you to get started in your new life with your new wife. >> Yeah. >> U this is a blessing. Huge. It's

>> I think that's truly what you need to do is go, man. My dad, he left me and my

sisters with enough for me to start my life debtree essentially.

>> Wow. >> That's a big deal. >> And you can become very very wealthy as a result of that. >> Yeah. your fiance's income combined with yours and no house payment and no payments. I mean, you're going to be making hundred and something thousand dollars a year between the two of you or more and you're young and yeah, but also

it's okay to just say out loud that this hurts and it's sad

>> and I don't I don't like it.

>> Uh but I do like the future that he gave you. >> So, I'm going to go with that. That's a good reframe, Ken. I like that.

And you know, you got this barn and all this, you know, before you sell it, is there something nostalgic from the house or the barn that you take to your sisters and go, "Hey, I'd like to take this." And there you can take something with you. >> Sure. >> You know, >> you know, and honestly, truthfully, uh, if you're going to have something nostalgic, it ought to be a little smaller. [laughter] >> Yeah.

Yeah. He's exactly right. Like I always think of a cool sign in the >> I got my grandma's Bible. I don't have her house.

Okay.

Yeah, that's true.

>> So, yeah, and I got my grandpa's gun and that's easier to carry around, right?

And so, >> uh, which is kind of how we did things. She had the Bible, he had the gun, but the, uh, um, but that's, uh, yeah. Wow.

And so, um, yeah, look for nostalgic

things like that because memories are not in real estate. Dirt, bricks and mortar, and real estate can trap you with emotions. It's family dirt that's generationally been there. I've seen some of the worst decisions in my life made, watched people make some of the worst decisions in the name of the emotions of generational family dirt.

>> And uh man, you can just get trapped in

the emotions of that when the old man that bought it originally would have never wanted that, >> right? >> You know, now you know, great grandpa in this case or whatever or my great great grandpa would have not wanted us to do something stupid with that piece of ground I was talking about a minute ago. >> Yeah. in in the name of family dirt cuz he it was just something he bought, you know, it wasn't family dirt before he bought it.

So, somebody's now it's somebody else's family dirt. So, let's just um There we go. Hey, Wilson, there's a lot of good can come from this. You and your sisters can be closer.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the fair winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author and host of Front Row Seat, a Ramsey Network's runaway hit.

He's my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey. The phone number here is88255225.

Merry Christmas, America. We're glad you're here. >> Ryan is with us in Salt Lake City. Hey, Ryan. What's up in your world?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Ken. Thanks for taking my call. Uh my wife and I are in baby step seven with a net worth of about $1.6 million. Uh I'm calling because I have a plan to leave my corporate job for my side hustle and I kind of need a sanity check. I just want to know if I'm being a a fool to trade security for independence or you know or or is this

exactly what baby step 7 is for?

>> Well, give us the numbers. I love this question. Tell us what your income is in your corporate job. Okay, so I make close to 200,000 a year right now. And

the side hustle, this is not great.

Consistently, it's about 2,000 a month that I bring in net. And that has been over the course of two years a consistent,000 that we can count on.

>> What is >> uh so it's just buying and selling abandoned storage units. I tried the first one as kind of a hobby and now my wife calls this my hobby job and I buy five or six a year. So, it's really uh not a lot. And I've just done this in my spare time. >> Yeah. This is just above a hobby. She's right. >> Right. >> Yeah. And how old are you?

>> I'm 44.

>> How old is she?

>> She's 39. >> What does she make?

>> So, up until about uh four months ago,

she only had part-time jobs and worked in the home. But starting in September, she got a full-time job as a teacher.

her dream job that she's always wanted to do. And now she's making uh about

$4,000 a month net. So she's netting 4,000. >> What do you do job? What's your career?

>> So I'm a software developer.

>> Okay. >> The answer is no.

Because we always answer, what would we do if we were in your shoes? And uh

>> would I walk away from a $200,000 gig for a $24,000 hobby?

>> Not at 44. >> No. uh you still got a lot of earning potential. I think there's still a transition, but I think you need a better side hustle. And let me just tell you my rule of thumb on when do we leave

uh a full-time job to a side hustle just so that you have some context because you're not there. But I would want a minimum of 6 to 12 months of my income.

And in your case, that's 200,000. I would want six to 12 months of that in the retained earnings is what we call it here in the company, the side hustles bank account uh before I even thought about moving out. But in your case, I don't even think that's the right >> because this some percentage of your income. >> It's a hard to scale business. >> If you had a side hustle that was 150, you know, you could make that jump.

>> Yeah, that's fair. >> And but here's the thing. Going from >> you said software engineer. Is that what you said? Yes, sir.

>> From software engineer to junk dealer is probably not my plan.

>> I understand there's probably there's probably a middle ground here. I liked what you said from corporate world to independence. >> Yeah, >> let's talk about that and how can we maybe be a software engineer freelance uh start doing some consulting contracts and you decide who and when you want to work for and all that kind of stuff and maybe you make 250 doing that. I don't know.

you don't necessarily have to go down. >> Uh, but you got your independence and you can set your hours and and do some of that stuff. >> Sounds like you got a pitch. I I want to hear this out a little bit more because I do have a follow-up question.

Go ahead. I know you want to say something.

little bit. Uh, about two years ago, I

was ready to just jump and leave the corporate world. Uh, I was burnt out and I still am and I felt like I could barely hold on. Um, I found something that I could gravitate towards and uh,

something that I loved and was passionate about and something that I felt really proud that I had built and bootstrapped from a $500 initial investment to something that consistently makes $2,000 a month in cash. >> And we also planned two years ago, I knew I couldn't jump then. It would be ridiculous to try and say that I can replace a $200,000 a year income ever.

But that's not what I want. Why would I don't want to pile up money in a bank account just to have $10 million when I retire if I'm not happy and I would and my soul felt like it had been sucked out of my body. >> Totally get it. Let me ask you a quick question on that.

>> What is the What would you say is the greatest source of your burnout? Is it people? Is it the environment? Is it the workload?

Those are usually the big three. What What is it for you?

>> I know, but does it mean that I need to make more or the same to be happy if I can be content? >> No, but it's just But to automatically assume less equals happy is a that's a that's a not a proper framework.

>> Yeah, I understand you're >> Let me ask you another question. >> I'm very happy and I make a lot more. I I I Yeah, I'm sure.

>> What has to happen, Ryan? You've done this long enough to know something about this business. If you gave it 40 hours a week, what do you anticipate the income becoming?

>> I I've thought about this a lot. I know.

And I I've had So, here's here's my plan. >> So, um uh I the best month that I've had was $6,000 uh in net net uh profit.

>> Okay? And that was that was from uh buying multiple lockers instead of having to space them out so much because I had more spare time to do it. I have a sbatical coming up because I do have a great corporate job. It's very cushy, you know. I have a sbatical that comes up for having worked at the same company for 15 years and I have six weeks off in

March. I want to take that six weeks and I want to bust my butt and put my nose to the grindstone and see what I can do putting 40 hours, 50, 60 hours a week putting do you think you can do? What do you think you can do?

>> I I think that I could average 6,000 a month and I could have uh breakout months of 10. >> Okay. So, I'm going to tell you something after hearing your cause of burnout and I'm on your team, but I'm going to give you some some tough love.

That is a mindset issue that you

actually can control. I didn't hear toxic environment. I didn't hear a jerk

boss. I heard cushy job. So, let me tell you what's going on. You can control your desire and your desire is to be independent. I love it. But I'm going to tell you this right now. I love the six week sbatical.

Do not quit your job right now. This is the advice I would give to myself. Let's prove out this hypothesis in the six weeks, but let's not immediately quit if

that goes well. And I think you need to change your mindset starting today that yes, what's really going on in this burnout is is I'm spending all my time

thinking about my desired future and I'm

not willing to be patient to get to that

desired future in a much better way. And

I think you're just so ready to leave and be your own guy that you're missing what is a phenomenal platform by which to step into that desired future. I think you can step into it too soon and talk yourself into making less money because I just want to be happy. I think you need to be wise. I think more wisdom

less happy is the mindset right now.

Yeah. I'm a little bit afraid. No, I'm a lot afraid that you've confused the freedom that you feel doing this business with an actual passion for the business. >> Yeah.

>> You're just buying it on junk. I mean, it's okay, but it's not exactly like you're changing the world or there's passion. Where's the passion come? The passion comes from your independent and you're controlling your own destiny. And that's where you're getting your passion from. It's not the actual actions. And I think you can do that in a way that is better for your family at 44 years old than $24,000 a year.

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>> [music]

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Pre-order today at ramseyolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Cindy's in Dallas. Hi, Cindy. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? Thank you.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> So, I have two paid off vehicles. um an

'06 Honda Odyssey and a 2010 Chevy

Traverse. But I keep having so many

repairs. I don't make a lot each month.

I'm a single parent.

>> Why do you have two cars?

>> Well, they each keep breaking down.

>> You have a spare?

>> Yeah. Um >> You have a teenager?

>> No. >> Okay. >> It's me and kids.

>> How old are the kids?

Uh they're all 10 and under three of them. >> So you don't really need two cars.

>> My problem is uh whenever one breaks

down, I use the other. But they both have so many. >> What if you sold them both and piled the money together and got a good car?

>> I don't know that anyone would give me a whole lot for both. I don't want to end up back where I'm at. Like one needs a timing chain and the other uh it's been

leaking oil.

it. I just I feel like I don't have enough to get a decent not going to have the same problem. >> How do you know? >> I've I've uh asked around for people to

buy the the worst car. >> Who' you ask?

>> I've asked two different mechanics, a dealer. >> You ask a mechanic to buy your car.

>> Well, he sells used cars.

>> I bet he does. Which means he buys yours cheap and resell it for a profit.

bad information.

Okay, I want you to take these cars and look them up on Kelly Blue Book KBB.com

private sale. I think you have a $3,000

car and a $5,000 car. That's what I think.

And I think that's $8,000. And then you go get an $8,000 car. Do you have any money at all?

>> I have some, but I've put thousands into >> How much do you have in money?

>> [sighs] >> I have about 2,000.

>> Okay. All right. And so if you got 8,000 out of these two cars and put your last 2,000 with it, you could buy a $10,000 car. Do you have any family in the area?

>> Some. >> What? >> I have some. >> What's some? Who?

>> My parents. >> Okay. You say that with great enthusiasm.

How old are you?

>> I'm 34. >> Okay. How long have you been by yourself, kid?

>> Uh, three years.

>> Is there a large church, what we call mega church or goodsized church or multiple goodsized churches in your area? >> Sure. She's in Dallas.

>> Yeah, there's a large church. >> Okay. Here's here's what I want you to do because you're a single mom. And I'm not saying these churches all have it, but uh I know several churches in our area have a program where they help single moms that have automobile issues.

So that could be a free mechanic to get this timing belt changed to then be able to sell. As Dave has been My point is I want you to know that there is some real possibilities for help. But you've got to know that as a single mom, there are people out there that want to help you with the car. They may give you There's a a large church that Dave and I go to.

They we give cars away to single moms.

You got to be okay asking for help here because it feels like if we can fix this car situation, this is going to take a huge lit of stress off of you. Am I right?

>> Yeah, it would be a lot better.

>> Are you willing to show up and say I need help?

>> I've applied to one of their programs. I didn't hear back from that one.

>> I'm sorry about that, but I would show up. >> Call them again. Prove to them that you aren't a dead beatat, which you're not, and that you're taken care of. Let them know who you are. You applied to a program with a church.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Usually there's some type of >> I know. And they didn't call back.

>> I mean, they have something where you have to call in at 6:00 in the morning >> and you you have to go through an application for them to >> Well, let's go. >> One family. >> Let's go.

>> You're in a desperate situation. Let's Let's get up at 5:00 a.m. for that.

I have applied to increase my VA disability. I'm hoping that that will >> you completely sidestep the suggestion.

>> Yes, >> you need to go do what Ken's telling you to do. And then when you get ready to sell these two cars, I would ask that you get your brother or your dad or one of the gentlemen from a local church to go with you in the sale and in the

repurchase to help you select something in the repurchase. Not that you're not able to, but you want another set of eyes looking at the mechanical ability so you don't buy another problem.

Okay. >> Yes. >> And you might even get it inspected before you buy it. So, if you could find a $10,000 car from a you from a a

grandmother that is selling it on a garage sale and um you probably could

get a very good car for that kind of money right now. And you probably can put that money together from these two vehicles. You may have to go through that church program that at 5:00 in the morning that Ken's talking about, get that timing belt changed and cause all this to happen. But you what you're doing has to change because what you're doing is not working. Would you agree with that?

>> Yes. It's impossible to save and keep.

>> Exactly. >> And you're getting tired and you're by yourself and you're getting the crud beat out of you by this situation. I can feel the fatigue in your voice. I'm sorry, >> but but you're tough. You are a tough lady. >> You're a warrior princess and you can fight through this, but you're going to have to start making some big moves to get these these cars need to be gone. A

spare because both of them suck is not a plan.

Yeah, I've I've been trying to follow what you said about buying in cash, and I bought the van in June for $675,

and I knew it needed some repairs, but it just it keeps needing repairs.

>> Well, we've never told anybody to buy a $675 van.

>> I have, but I didn't tell her that, but yeah. >> Have you We [laughter] guessed in that time.

>> Yeah. No, listen. Keep your head up.

Listen, get your head up. Here's what I need you to know. that there are people who are willing to help you and you have got to swallow. I'm not saying you're prideful at all, but we all have it.

I think you've got to show up and say, "Will you help me?" >> Yeah. I'm I'm pretty sure that we've got some pretty good connections there. I agree. >> I'm not going to name their names on the air, but um we'll make some calls for you there and see if we can help you get tied into a good local church and see if they can walk you through some help, okay?

Because you need some help. And I'm going to ask you to ask your dad.

>> select the next thing and get rid of these two so that >> you can get into a decent car.

>> And may maybe I'm wrong. If you bought it for $675, you might not have $8,000 worth of vehicles. I'm probably wrong on my math. But um but yeah, you the thing

is we've got to get the two of these put together with a little money and some wisdom and get you into something where cars are not consuming your life anymore, hun. So you hang on.

Christian's going to pick up and he'll get you with our church guys, our we have a department that works with churches and Christian, you can put her with Josh and he'll help her find somebody that's got a car program there in Dallas. There's a bunch of them that do, I'm sure. I don't want to name any of them. I know a bunch of them, but I don't want to name them on the air and put them on the spot. But we'll we'll take care of her. Make sure she's okay.

>> [music]

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>> Taylor is with us in Houston, Texas.

Merry Christmas, Taylor. How are you?

>> Well, maybe if I push the button, Taylor would be there. Hi, Taylor. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm doing great. How are you, sir? >> Better than I deserve. I see on my screen you're a baby steps millionaire.

Congratulations.

>> Thank you very much. >> So, uh, how much is your net worth, sir?

>> 1.1 million. >> Very cool. How old are you?

>> 32. >> Oh, wow. Young one. Good for you. And what's the breakdown of your 1.1 million? How's it invested?

>> Well, it's pretty simple, Dave. I've got 570,000 in my 401k. I've got 125,000 in my Roth

IRA, 170,000 in taxable. Uh my home's worth

about 250,000, and I've got about 20,000 in cash.

>> Good for you. Well done. Well done. And

what do you do for a living?

>> I'm a union electrician.

>> Ah, very good. Good for you. What's your wife do? Uh, I'm single. I'm not married. >> Ah, okay. And you did all this by 32.

Did you inherit anything?

>> No, sir. Not a penny.

>> Zero inheritance. So, you're an electrician at 32 years old and you've got a $1.1 million net worth. I think that kind of rests our case on the trades, doesn't it? >> Uh, yes, sir. >> How old were you when you started?

>> Uh, 20.

>> Okay. So, 12 years.

>> Yes, sir. >> You paid off the house and stacked the 401k.

>> Yes, sir. I paid off my house about 3 months ago, actually. >> Wow. Good for you. How does that feel, man? Did you ever think when, you know, started as an electrician at 20 years old that you were going to be a millionaire at 32?

>> No, I definitely didn't think that that it was going to be possible. It was uh always a dream, but I started listening to you about 10 years ago and set myself

the goal to to achieve, you know, becoming a millionaire and being able to be on your radio show and here we are.

>> Yeah. Look at that, man. Congratulations.

>> Thank you. >> So, you have a a uh what did you do? An

apprenticeship or did you get some kind of a a certification degree or what?

>> Uh so, um I actually got a scholarship

out of high school from a uh a local plant that I really wanted to work at.

And uh they put me through a two-year associates degree program. Um and after

I finished that, I was lucky to get hired on there. and um I did go through a three-year apprenticeship program with them and then uh so and ever ever since

then it's it's just been uh just staying

steady and being consistent.

>> So what was your starting income when you started all that? >> Uh my first year I've been very blessed.

My first year was 95,000.

>> Okay. And what do you make now?

>> Um about 200 210.

>> Okay. >> As an electrician. Oh, I love this call.

This makes me so happy. [laughter]

>> Incredible. Incredible. How's it feel to

be at this point at 32 years old? Does it You ever look at that and go, "Wow." >> Well, I do. it um

uh it doesn't really feel any different as far as how I've always felt, but um

it is it is a nice milestone to reach and uh I just look forward to just continuing to save and invest and see what other goals I can reach.

>> You think it can still be done if somebody's listening right now and they're 20 and they started a an apprenticeship program, an associates degree and move out in electrician. You think that can still be done in America?

>> Absolutely, 100%. Would you pay for your

house? >> Uh 242.

>> Okay.

In Houston, Texas.

>> Yes, sir. I'm I'm about an hour outside of Houston. I'm in more of a a rural area, but uh >> What's the area? >> Yes, sir. >> Uh Bay City. >> Okay. Yeah, I know. Bay City. All right.

Do you have any >> So, does 242 buy a pretty decent house in Bay City, Texas right now?

>> Uh yes, sir. I would say so. It's a three bed, two bath, 2,000 square ft. um in a nice nice neighborhood, quiet established neighborhood. So I >> I think that's I think that addresses the affordability concerns we hear.

>> Yes, sir. Yeah, it >> definitely. >> Question. Do you have plans or have you allowed yourself to wonder about owning your own business as an electrician? Uh

or or what do you think about professionally now that you've been in this field for let's call it 10 12 years?

>> I have I have thought about it. I thought about what other opportunities I could get into as far as uh additional income streams. Um >> what have you identified? Not saying you're going to do it, but what have you identified? Because I want our audience to hear what these options might be.

>> Well, one of them is I've I've kind of always been interested in owning maybe an RV park. We're kind of in a big industrial area where I'm at. There's a lot of plants and a lot of industry around. Okay.

And it seems like the RV parks are always full, just constant constant, you know, visitors and contractors, workers coming through. So, >> that was always something that I've been interested in. >> And that cash position and no debt sets you up to be able to do that. All right.

And I have another question.

and maybe they're feeling cultural pressure about that if their kid's handy

a little bit leans towards some of the skill sets that could work in a trade but they're worried about the perception of that not going to a four-year school.

What would you say to those parents?

>> I would say there's some excellent opportunities in the trades. It's uh

it's it's a very respected career in the area. Um you have a skill set that you can keep for life. I mean, you can you can take the skills you learn in the trades and you can take them anywhere.

And we need a lot of trades people in this country. And um there's just some

great opportunities for earning and for stability in those careers.

>> Yeah. >> Well, Taylor, we're proud of you, man.

Congratulations. So happy for you.

Excellent. Excellent work, man. Baby steps millionaires listening to us at 20 years old goes becomes electrician. $1.1

million net worth. $250,000

paid for home. That's 2,000 square ft,

three bedrooms in the Houston, Texas area >> and $625,000 in retirement accounts, Dave, at 32.

>> Yeah. [laughter] >> That's just going to turn into millions.

>> It's going to be, you know, he he's gonna have 40 or $50 million if he doesn't watch what he's doing. Yeah, [laughter] it's that that it's going to get out of control. >> That's pretty wild. >> That's just bizarre. At 32 freaking years old, uh starting out making 95

after apprenticeship and moves into $200,000 a year.

>> So there's your answer. And you know what? They didn't have $350,000 in student loan debt and a parent plus loan. It's what he didn't have. And uh so

oh they they gave the the place he went to work gave the scholarship for him to get an associates for free.

>> Exactly right. Let's just let's just track this a minute. Okay. And um this

is a different way of thinking about things. Again, we're not against higher education, but we are both very excited that the trades are exploding in America and made in America is starting to be a thing again. And uh that's a good thing.

There there's a bazillion of these things. We need to clip this call and send it to our friend Mike Row. He'll love this call. >> I I almost said it'd be fun to to to three-way call Mike in here. And uh he would be so excited. He would have been cheering uh Taylor on. Here here's something, by the way, out of the news.

In the next 15 to 20 years, the federal

government is predicting that they will

have to hire as many as 600,000 electricians. The federal government will >> federal government to do what?

government contracts, you know, like of defense >> electric chairs for the IRS agents. I mean, what [laughter] what do you got? I'm just telling you 600 over over

>> Oh, in contracts, subcontract, not just federal employees. >> Federal employees to do work on federal buildings, federal and I'm just I'm just pointing it out that the need is that big and whether or not they're going to do that or not is not the issue. I don't want you to get lost in the massive number there. But the idea here is is that >> I get mass lost in the massive government spending is what I'm getting.

>> I know. But the point is is and again I'm not trying to drive people to federal federal work but I'm [clears throat] saying that >> the need for the tradesmen and Mike's been saying this you've been saying I've been saying this there is there's going to be a massive amount of of tradesmen

who are retiring and the need is massive

which means that the pay scale is going to be very very good and this young man

Taylor not doing example >> 200,000 >> he's doing better than most lawyers.

Yeah. And no no law school loans.

>> Yeah.

There's so many jokes there. So many

jokes. Lawyer jokes. My favorite.

Yeah.

[music]

>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 21 and 5. The plans of the diligent lead surely to abundance.

I'm going to say that again.

The plans of the diligent, by the way, diligence is excellence in the ordinary over time. The plans of the

diligent lead surely to abundance. But

everyone who is hasty

comes only to poverty.

Ronald Reagan said, "The greatest leader is not necessarily the one who does the greatest things. He is the one who gets the people to do the greatest things." Rudy is in Sacramento, California. Hey Rudy, what's up in your world? Life is good.

And that verse is amazing. I'm going to give you an example of it for my wife and I. Uh we recently moved uh to the Sacramento area uh to be near our children and our grandchildren.

our retirement accounts a million80,000.

Wow. >> And our the equity in our home is about maybe 600,000. >> Good for you. >> About 300,000. So we we've we've I've been I've been doing your principles for 25 years. Okay. >> Good for you. And so >> now you're talking about your retirement accounts from before in your other job, right? That you've >> all my other jobs combined. I've rolled them over in IRA. I have Roth IAS. I have an S&P 500 index account. Good.

>> So, I I max everything out. We're actually closer to 20% of our investments. >> Wow. >> Of our income. So, no debt, just our mortgage. I I take cash for cars. I I only buy used cars.

>> Excellent. >> So, here's >> How old are you? >> 56. >> Way to go, man. You did good.

>> We've been working our butts off. And it's You know, your wife ought to make a By the way, on a side note, your wife should make a recipe book on beans and rice and rice and beans. There's some good stuff out there. [laughter] Except that we never really ate it. It's just a metaphor. But yeah, >> I know. I know. So, listen. The the

public agency that I got a job with, they have a retirement plan. I put in 3% goes into a 457b pre-tax. They match it with a 3% uh match that goes into a 401A

with a vesting period of 10 years. I'm not going to be here in 10 years. And Vince, it gets worse. The money goes into a variable annuity. I'm wondering if I ought to just stick to doing what I've been doing and forget their retirement plans. What do you think?

>> Well, you're not you're not going to get the match because you're not going to be there. >> I'm not going to be there. >> So, the only thing you've got is just a 457, which is just deferred comp.

>> That's all it is. >> So, it's um you know, you're avoiding taxation for a short period of time is all you're doing. Um, >> yeah.

>> H >> I mean, $548 a month, whatever it is. Each each of us, I I'm maxing out the IRA at 23,500 and then I have a bunch of money going into the S&P 500 index fund that I have of them. I can't you can't put money anywhere else. >> You know what?

That's exactly what I would do is what you're doing. I'm with you. I would avoid this thing because you're you've laid out what you've laid out is excellent work on what you're already doing.

>> No, I have a million80,000. >> Oh, I missed that. I'm sorry. I got it wrong. Million80. And >> I have about maybe 600,000 in equity on >> Yeah, that's what it was. That's what it was. Okay. So So that million, you're 56.

When you're 63, we'll be >> planning for 63. Yeah, we've been planning for 63 for 28 years.

>> Be 2 million. And then when you're 70, it'll be 4 million. And that's if you add nothing to it all. and and the C

house. I mean, you'll have it paid off in short order. I I would be chunking it on the house and in that index fund.

Now, here's the comparison on the index fund because you're at baby step seven.

You've maxed out any reasonably good retirement. You're avoiding this bad retirement thing. And so, that brings up a whole another discussion. You're not at baby step seven. You've got that um

you've got that mortgage left. Okay, I'm going to change it. I'm gonna throw it on the mortgage.

All extra goes on the mortgage. >> I called the mortgage company and I asked them if I send them $5,200 a month, when would I have my house paid off? And they said December 12th, 2032.

>> I I don't care what they said. I'm throwing it on the mortgage.

>> I want that mortgage gone. The sooner it

is gone, the faster this whole thing explodes and the more it can it's already on a great trajectory and it's going to increase the trajectory. Now, >> okay, >> having said that, and that's really what I would do if I were you, let's stop and explain why I said I like the index fund in your situation. Because here's the thing. If you've maxed out all retirement, and we're going to set aside the bad one as not even not even there, okay?

annuity, a variable annuity, not the one you're talking about, but just did that, it's going to grow, but it's going to be taxed at ordinary income when you take it out. What you put in the in an index

fund, it's almost it's a low turnover fund, so there's almost no turnover. So there's almost no taxation on it until you pull it out. And if you leave it alone one year or longer, you qualify for capital gains. So you're only going to be taxed at 15% rather than at 37%.

>> Yeah, that's what I've been my CPA told me that too. >> Yeah. So it's a great You got a good CPA. So it's a great um you know, the

S&P is a great place to park money because it's a low turnover ratio fund, but I want that house paid off. Would you say you're making household income?

Uh I I'm I'm at 120. My wife's at 60. So

180. >> 180. Okay. Yeah. 5260,000

a year. >> Yeah. >> We're trying to get aggressive. We're going back to the beans and rice and rice and beans. >> I wouldn't go that far back. There's no reason to go crazy. You're go You're not intense. You're just intentional. And I'm just saying, okay, what am I I'm going to have a life and then beyond that, do I put money in additional investments or do I put it on the house?

I put it on the house. That's all I'm saying. You're baby steps four, five, and six. is right where you are is four and six cuz your kids are grown. But yeah, so well done Rudy.

Congratulations. Another millionaire we talked to. Yeah. >> That became a millionaire because of doing the stuff we teach. >> Yeah. And and again, good good income, not insane income, you know, just really consistent for a long period of time.

It's what the scripture led off to. And he said, I model that. And he did.

>> That's exactly right. Diligent prosper.

Joe's in Toledo. Hey Joe, what's up?

>> Hey, what's going on? Uh Dave, how's it going? >> Great man. How can we help?

>> Hey man, just got a question. Um so my wife and I, so we we're avid followers of your program. We just actually uh diligently paid off about 58k in debt. We sold our house. Uh we to do that and we rent now >> and boy, let me tell you, that was a lot. But we could finally breathe right now. But so my wife has a good job.

She's a nurse practitioner, you know, she works 9 to5 home with the boys. I got four part-time jobs and I'm only making around 30k.

>> Well, what's your career field? What are you trying to build a career in?

>> Well, I I'm passionate about like audio

production and stuff like that, but >> I don't care what you're passionate about. I asked what you were trying to build a career in.

[clears throat] >> I don't know yet. That's what I'm trying to figure out. >> Okay. >> I'm trying to figure that out. I wonder if >> you sucky part-time jobs. Okay.

[laughter] >> Yeah.

>> All right, Ken. >> Yeah. You know, when I when I meet somebody like you, we have very limited time, so we got to cut right through here. So, I want you to give me the the heart answer, not think about this.

>> What What would What would you try >> if you knew you couldn't fail and and you knew you could do something else?

And you could make 100,000 a year.

>> Yeah. Just what what's at the top of the heart there? What is it? >> Oh, man.

>> Say it. >> Songwriter. >> That's it. Okay.

Now, so here's what we know. It's very, very hard to make it as a songwriter. I've got several friends that are some of the best songwriters in Nashville. They're amazing.

So, we got to then step back and go, okay, that's what we would try if we couldn't fail, but I love music. There's a theme between the audio engineering, the songwriter. Yeah, >> there's a theme there. Okay.

So again, to Dave's point, we got to work our way to this ultimate job.

not going to cut it. So I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle. That's my gift to you. But you've got to figure out what can I >> finding the work you're wired to do. >> That's right. We'll give you the assessment as well. But the proximity principle first is all right. Who do I know in this field, just the music field

that I can sit with and see what a clear path might look like? This is just for the long term, but in the short term, you've got to stop working four jobs and find a job, a job, maybe two, that now

we're making 60. Let's make more money

in the short term while we figure out what our plan is for the long term.

That's the that's the progression here.

So, hang on the line. Uh take the assessment from find the work you're wired to do. I think it's going to help you out a lot. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you [music] before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 131. Quit Sabotaging Your Finances And Build Wealth | March 20, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. Jade

Warshaw, number one best-selling author and Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

John is on the line in San Antonio. Hey John, how are you?

Hey, I'm doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Good answer. Not much, man. I was just calling in to get some advice, Dave. Um, dealing with the situation with my wife that didn't involve like some financial dishonesty.

Um, so just looking to for some advice like on a plan on how to move forward, um, with our situation. Wow. Okay, what happened? Yeah, so just to give you a little context, uh, my wife and I have been together on and off since high school.

Um, we had our first son when I was 20.

Um, 32 now. We separated for about 5 years, got back together. Uh, we just got married about a year ago.

Um, and we just welcomed our second baby boy in January. Um, and up until recently, um, I mean things have been great. Like I think our relationship has been stronger than it's ever been. Um, but I just uncovered like some a financial situation where she wasn't really being too honest with me. So, What are you talking about? What are you talking about? You uncovered what?

>> Yeah, yeah, so about a year ago my wife's car broke down. She was tr- I was trying to fix it to save some money.

Um, she ended up buying a new car without discussing it with me. Her dad helped her co-sign.

Um, I was told that the original car was, um, being taken by her dad's friend to a repair shop to get fixed and sold, which didn't make sense to me cuz I know she was upside down on it and I was under the impression that um she was still making payments on it and everything was being handled. Um I just found out that wasn't the case. The car's no longer in our possession. She pretty much lied to me about like making payments and she didn't know like what was going on with the car.

It was at the shop. Um I mean, turns out like her her dad helped facilitate the whole situation.

Like it disappeared. So, I don't know what happened to it, but um she wasn't being honest with me about the car the whole time. I had to do some investigating. When she was driving the car and she came home with a new car and you saw that she had a new car, what did you say? And what did she say?

Um I mean, I really didn't know what to say. I mean, she just showed up with a new car and said my dad took me to go co-sign on a new car. Um the old one was taken by one of his friends to a shop and that was the last time we saw it. I thought it was sitting at a shop the whole time, but Okay. And then up till that point up till that point >> long ago was that?

Uh oh man, that happened like

back in in February, March of last year, so about a year ago. Okay. And you guys never had you you've never had combined finances.

No, we haven't. So, the whole reason I was pressing on that on that original car is because I was trying to like align our finances to you know, start

um investing, right? Like we our house is paid off. We're in a really good situation. I'm trying to open up some college funds for our kids, which I've already done. Um so, she's never been honest with me about finances ever since we're married.

I've been pushing on it.

Um and I just kind of had to find out the ugly truth. So, here's here's the deal. There's two problems. One is you're not aligned on the money, obviously.

But the most important problem that you guys have to work through is lying.

Right.

And so, um you know, she has broken trust and now it's hard to trust her on anything. Yeah, absolutely. Because she's gone into this in-depth deception.

Mhm. Oh, yeah. It was like That's the hard part cuz it's not like it wasn't one No, it was This is not a white lie.

There's Target Target bags under the bed. This is an ongoing

major >> Ongoing ongoing thing. So, I'm operating on on top >> And your all's relationship is a weird one anyway. By the way it originated and it's come and gone and that roller coasters and babies and all kinds of stuff going on that's out of line to start with. So, what that tells me is is

that this money being out of line and then her probably her shame around it

or her knowing your reaction wasn't going to be good um is probably what caused her to want to not tell you.

Um so, obviously, dude, what you all need is in-depth marriage counseling.

Mhm. Yeah, we have >> how to be married.

Yeah, I agree with you, man. Like that was kind of like my non-negotiable was like um like if if you want to work through this, like we need to unpack all this stuff. We need to go to counseling.

I need transparency into all of our finances and we have a counseling session tomorrow. She's given me full access to all the bank accounts. Great.

Good. That's a good start.

So, if you Okay, so if you can if you can begin to rebuild trust through extreme transparency and extreme alignment where you both see everything all the time and gradually

you will begin to rebuild trust and you'll work through all of the things that got you here with a good counselor

um you're doing all the right things then. That's exactly what I would tell you to do. Yeah. Yeah, um exactly. But there is like obviously she's got a lot of debt out of the old car, tied to the new car. >> Yeah, no, >> doesn't. You do. We're married. No, it's you guys both together. >> You're right. You're And that's going to be the hardest thing for for you is if she has said at this point I'm all in, I'm ready to do the counseling, I'm giving you full transparency.

Now your hard work is going to be okay, I've got to kind of let go of some of those other things. I've said it, we've talked about it. We both have to now be focused on building this new thing.

Yeah. And that's going to be the hardest thing for you because you got burned and you're still you're still feeling that and so The counselor can coach you through not continually bringing up the past all the time. Unless there's a reason. I mean the only reason you bring up the past is if there's some indicator that's repeating. >> Mhm. Mhm. And so you know, some reason to not continue to trust or rebuild

trust. But you know, the two of you sit down together and yeah, you have a right to have been angry for having been deceived. Yes. And but then you put that

like Jade said, you put that in the back pocket and you look forward. Mhm. And we do you know, or we don't and we don't we're not going to be together. Okay, cuz it's a deal breaker for you. But I hope it's not. I hope you guys can sit down and work it out and and get the counselor coach you guys on working together and it's probably going to lead to stuff like selling that car.

Because I'm guessing y'all probably can't afford that car. Based on the fact her dad had to cosign.

Hello. Right. Right. >> And I also it'd be kind of good to get rid of that car because it gets rid of her dad.

And it gets rid of the memory. Every time you write a check for that car, you're going to be pissed again.

It's a good point. >> It brings up it balls it all up to the surface again. So I kind of like getting rid of the car just for those reasons and I don't even know the numbers on the car. And I would imagine the other car is worth very little to nothing.

Probably is in a scrap heap somewhere or it got repoed. >> Yeah, that's what it sounds like. And she hid that too. But the guy at the shop is not going to allow that car to just sit in his lot in perpetuation.

He's either going to you know, uh sell it off to the scrapyard um or he's going to uh you know, collect storage against it and based on that sell it or he's going to call the repo company and they come get it. And in either case, you probably have some financial damage there too to work through. But the two of you can lock arms together and clean up this. I've seen people clean up more.

Oh, yeah. And And let's take a minute and talk about financial transparency for people listening. When we talk about financial transparency and combining money, it's not just uh there's a joint account that we put some money in. There's There's one account between the two of you and all of your money goes into there and everybody has the passwords and everybody has the account numbers.

So, financial transparency isn't just money, it is just relational transparency. You should want It's accountability. You should want your spouse to see and know the things that you're doing in multiple areas of your life and you should give them access.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I am right here because some extraordinary women in my life, mentors, friends, my wife, my mom, because they're all amazing. And one of the common themes I've heard from all of them is that between the responsibilities and expectations that the world places on them and the expectations they place on themselves, women are under incredible pressure every day. And they're often encouraged to overlook their own emotional well-being to care for others.

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That's BetterHelp, h e l p dot com slash Ramsey.

Lynn is in Boston, Massachusetts. Hi, Lynn. How are you?

Well, if I push the button, she can talk to me. Hi, Lynn. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Um I am wondering I'm in a kind of a

unique situation and I'm contemplating selling my home.

Um I'm single mom, have I'm 52.

My oldest daughter has special needs.

She requires care. Um I'm supporting her

financially um and physically sometimes, but she lives an hour and a half away from me.

I do need to be closer to her, but I also have a second daughter who is a full-time college student in my area. Um

I'm just kind of stuck. I'm financially just in a huge mess. Um

been on FMLA to take care of my older daughter, so I'm behind on my mortgage.

I'm behind on a lot of different things.

Um You know what? You're You're behind on your mortgage, why?

So, I have a my single um

household income and I had I was on like

um, to take care of my daughter my income dropped because of interim FMLA. And um, so you don't get you don't Yeah,

so you you >> your entire quit working to go take care of her. Yeah. >> And your income went away.

Well, not completely. Yeah, but largely and so you weren't but you knew when you did that, I mean what was your plan?

Well, I didn't have a plan cuz it happened sort of quickly. It was an emergency issue. What was the emergency?

She had a um, hospitalization. She has special needs. She has new um, onset medical diagnoses of

very we don't even actually have an answer to what's going on. She had a Oh.

Is she on any Is she getting any sort of

um, income because of it? Any disability? Any SSI?

>> Yeah, she gets SSI every month. Um, it's >> So so you you just went to the hospital to take care of her at the hospital.

No, she had an admission um, multiple admissions um, and but when she came

home I I have to take care of her and I have to get her back and forth to her appointments. Yeah, how old is she?

24.

Mhm. Um, so I'm and it's just me. So there's

no one else. You know, I'm her guardian.

Um, but she lives in an area where

she has supports and but not they won't

it's not medical like medical. It's like resources that you know, will take her into the community things like that. Do you have that by you or no?

No, no. That's why she's where she is cuz there's nothing like that up here.

>> when she moved there all of this you knew all of this. How What was the plan then to take care of her? >> No, we didn't. No, she was in a great place when she when she was old.

Oh, so the medical has occurred since then, but the medical not the special.

Okay. I understand. >> Right. Ay, ay, ay. So, you think the medical's chronic and ongoing?

It's going to be, yep. Yep. We're in the kind of in the middle of figuring it out and I think that Yeah, I guess you are I guess you're moving there, aren't you?

Yeah, I I really need to.

Um, I'm just I, you know, have my other

daughter who's in college and and I don't know if I sell you know, I I do have equity of about $200,000 equity. Yeah, you need to sell it before you lose it.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, let's get it on the market and let's move. Get it on the market and move and then try to establish some kind of uh income and career path around to work to while you're supporting her.

Yeah. What were you doing for work before?

I'm still working. It's just intermittently um in and out, you know.

>> What what type of work?

I'm in the medical field. Okay, so is that transferable to where your daughter is? It is. It is, yep. Okay. Either she moves where you are so you can take care of her or you move where she is so you can take care of her. This not deciding is going to kill you.

Right. Well, the issue is just that how I'm going to um I think I'm going to probably have to rent, but wondering you know, if I should rent the house my house out >> No, you should sell your house.

You you don't need a you don't need a rental property in the middle of all this other mess going on.

And so just sell it. Yeah, sell it. Put the money in your pocket, go rent, and live up there next to her and move your job up there. Get a job in the field up there or load her up and move her in with you and you work your job down there and you take care of her there.

Because you're going to take care of her. You've established that. Yes. So, the only question is which location and both of you need to be there. This one foot on the boat, one on the dock and the dock the boat's leaving is not working for you.

Mhm.

If this is an ongoing thing and you're going to be needed in to do her care and you're choosing to be the one that provides her care then then that's what you're going to be doing. >> many different different, you know, things. So, thank you for that because, you know, people are saying, "Well, you need to rent it and move back in your house." No, you need to simply stop being stupid. Don't listen to people.

"How are you going to buy something on your own?

Mhm. And that's not being a real estate investor.

Mhm. So, no. Sell that thing, put the 200,000 in your pocket, make your decision that way. That's exactly what I would do. James is in Boston, also. Hi, James. How are you?

Hey, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Great. Uh so, the reason I'm calling, I'm 22 years old, graduated from college last spring. I've been working full-time since summer. Um I would say that my income and net worth are probably in the top couple percent for my age um due to varying circumstances. I have a good job. Um a lot of my money that I have came from a life insurance policy from my father who passed when I was younger.

I'm sorry. And then some Oh, no. Don't be sorry. It's It's all right.

>> What's What's your degree in?

Computer science. And what do you do for a living? I do software engineering in >> Good. And what are you making?

About 135. Good for you. Okay, you got a good income and you've got some money left over from that life insurance policy. How much is that?

Yeah, so that was about 100. I also had about 70 just from um money that my dad

had put into my old savings since the time my brother and I were younger.

Um my total net worth is about 320, 330 depending on how the market's doing. >> And what's the So, wait a minute. That's 170. Where's the rest of it?

So, uh I worked two 6-month internships while I was in college that contributed to a significant part of it. And you don't have any debt. Probably. No debt. Cuz you got 300 grand in it You got 300 grand in investments, I hope, and 135 income and no debt and you're 22 and you're in the computer science as your software engineer. Way to go. Great start, dude. >> Sure. Thank you. What's your question?

Um So, my question is uh you know I'm kind of on third base, but I didn't exactly hit a triple to get here. I mean, I worked hard. I went to a good school. I worked my ass off to get a good job. >> Yeah, you might be You might be close to second base. But, yeah, okay.

Yeah. All right. Fair enough. >> Um So, my thing that I'm trying to do is I'm I'm trying to reduce how much I spend even though I'm already saving a lot of my income. Uh I can't help but feel like the guilt of of lifestyle creep is is hitting me. Yeah, good for you. That's a good observation for a 22-year-old. That's very smart. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I see your stuff on YouTube and it and it hit me. I was like, I can't let this let this get to me. So, um Yeah, I I'm saving about 35 to 40% of my gross income. >> Okay, when you're when you're developing a piece of software, you lay out a a plan, a flowchart.

Right? Correct. And you begin with the end in mind.

You don't make it up as you go.

Yeah. You have to go back do some edits cuz things unexpected things happen and you have to rewrite a portion of the code, but you begin with the end in mind and you lay out a game plan. So, that's all you do with a budget. >> Yes. It's all a budget is. You begin the month and every dollar and every category is filled out. Every one of your dollars of income is already allocated to something that you decided it's going to be allocated to before the month begins and then you follow that.

And that allows some spending, but an amount of spending that you're comfortable with. What you've got right now is a bunch of unknown and the unknown is leaving you feeling like a financial hangover.

Yeah, pretty much. Hit the nail on the head. Yeah, you need to know exactly what your goal is. If you're putting that 35% aside, what's the purpose of it? What are you trying to accomplish? What are you trying to obtain? And being conscious that you are enjoying part of your lifestyle and Dave is exactly right. A budget will help you do both of those things. Now, put an amount down for fun and then go have some dadgum fun. Yeah, you're doing well. You're 22, you're killing it. I'm proud of you.

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Mhm. Go download our EveryDollar budgeting app for free. It'll show you everything you need to do in the App Store or Google Play. Haley is in Houston. Hi Haley, how are you?

Hey Dave, how are you? I'm good. Good.

What's up?

I have a question for you. So, I've been with my boyfriend for a little over 6 years and I graduated

uh in that December 2023 with about 160

loans $160,000 of student loan debt.

Uh I've paid off a lot. I have about $90,000 left.

Way to go.

Thank you. So, so you're what? 24?

I'm 26. 26, okay. And what's your field of what's your career?

I'm a nurse. Oh, good for you. Okay. And so you got 90,000 left, all right? Mhm.

And my boyfriend makes 250,000 a year,

but he does not want to propose until I'm completely debt free. Mhm.

Interesting.

You're not going to like me.

If you were my daughter, you want to know what I would tell you?

What? Dump him.

Yeah, I mean, he's a great guy.

>> not. No, he's not.

No, he's not. >> He's He's making you prove your worth.

Based on money. Yeah. To him.

You're having to buy your way into this relationship. Nope. You're a princess and you deserve more than this.

The reason I've been able to like uh put like majority of my paycheck towards my loans is cuz he does pay for all our rent. Oh, so you live together?

Yeah, we live together. Mhm. So you're already married, but you just didn't admit it.

Yeah, it does feel like we're married.

Well, that gosh. I So what what's his incentive to get married? None.

And this this let me just say this, Haley, and I'm saying this cuz you're going to have relationships after this and you're going to learn from this and there's people who are going to watch this call and learn from this.

This is precisely why uh one of the reasons why living together before marriage is a is it's a bum idea. It's not a good idea because what happens is you start to make bad relational decisions based off of the

financial gain and based off of the pressure that you've already put on yourselves. It's a lot easier to walk away from a messed up relationship when he lives over here and she lives over here and we just get together when it's time to go on our dates. It's a lot easier to go, you know what? This guy's a bum.

I'm going to walk away. It makes it a lot more difficult when suddenly you're in the same house and then you're splitting the bills and then he's paying for the rent. It makes it very hard to make the natural transitions that we would have made if we had not applied that amount of pressure.

Because you chose to share an address.

Anyway, now you're not going to do it. I can tell by the way you're talking. So, here here's the thing. We love people getting out of debt.

You know that. And why do we love people getting out of debt? Because we love people and we want them to be able to prosper. And your number one wealth building tool is your income.

You have a fabulous career choice as a nurse. You'll always be employed and you can always work as much as you want to work. You can work 80 hours a week or you can work 20 hours a week as a nurse. You'll be able to do that the rest of your life.

All we tell couples to do is to be aligned, be in agreement on how

money is going to be handled. Now, he is in agreement that he hates debt. You're in agreement that you've hated debt and you've been working it down.

Okay? But then he he um he has put up a

false block here. I'm just telling you I I I love you and I if you were my daughter, I'd tell you not to marry this guy.

And uh because I think he's he this is a false premise.

Um you're aligned on what is important.

You're aligned on Okay, we don't like debt. We're going to avoid debt. We're going to get out of debt. Um and that's not a I People ask have asked me since I came on the air here 35 years ago, should I marry someone with debt? And the answer is always yes. Mhm. As long as you love them and you're aligned that we're getting rid of the debt.

If you have zero debt, but one of you loves debt and hates saving and the

other one loves saving and hates debt, you're going to get a divorce later.

The number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. And guess what this is? This is a money fight. Yeah. You're just not having it out loud. You're having it in your head. Yeah, that's right. Now,

what could be going on, and I'm going to allow a little space for this, he could just be an idiot today and he just needs

to learn a little bit about what it means to be in a relationship and what it means to handle money together. You said one thing that might cause me to go, I wonder if I brought this to him and, you know, saw premarital counselor if we can get on the same page, is it seemed like he was willing to help with

the debt. Now, you guys aren't, you know, married yet, but in a married relationship, it seemed like he was willing to help, but he was helping in the wrong way. And so, that's the only thing that makes me think he's he might possibly simply be misguided because he said, oh, I'll pay the rent. >> could go to a marriage counselor and premarital counselor and say, look, let's get aligned on this or we're going to end this.

>> Yeah. >> But, if it if at the end of the day the the answer to the question is, I won't marry you. Yeah, then yes, we have a problem. >> off your debt.

Um, you say answer, the question's answered. Are you value that more than you value me? Mhm. See you later, alligator.

>> Yeah. Holla.

You'll be gone. Yeah, I mean, I'll be done with this. I'm just not doing this.

Absolutely. Yeah. What do the cool kids say? See you, Felicia, or something? So, Bye, Felicia. Bye, Felicia. Yeah. That's the cool kids, like 20 years ago, the cool kids, right? Yeah. See That's going to I'm going to remember that forever, Dave. That was great.

See you later, FELICIA.

GET OFF MY LAWN, OKAY? I'M THAT GUY. All right. Good.

Charisma is in California. Hey, Charisma, what's up?

Hi. Hey. >> Um, oh gosh, I'm kind of nervous to talk to you. This is amazing. >> Well, we're glad you're here. How can we help?

Um I am currently working the debt snowball as of right now. I have

paid off $10,000 of debt in the last 6 months on a $50,000 income with >> Good for you. Well done. Yeah.

Yeah, no child support, nothing. All myself. Cool. How can we help today?

I have currently been paying off a credit card debt that I have >> Mhm. >> and I finally sorted through some

collections that I have from my second child pregnancy, um my pregnancy with

her. How old is she now?

She will be two in June.

>> Okay, so these bills are 2 years old.

Okay. Yes. Um and I have uh notices from

collection agencies.

>> Mhm. Um however, most of them have not

like I just have mail. They have not really tried to call me. Um there's nothing that shows up on my credit report. There's no other like

anything showing up. >> Doesn't have to show up on your credit report for you to owe it.

You went in the hospital, you had a baby, they sent you a bill. Is the bill accurate?

Yes, my other >> Then you owe the bill. Then you owe the bill. >> Okay. Okay. Um now how much is it? I finally

>> Give me an example. >> a few of them. There's a few of them. I have one for 54 the biggest one. Okay, the biggest one is $1,294. Good. Okay. I want you to save

up $200 and I want you to call them.

And I want you to say, "I'm a single mom. I make $50,000. I'm so broke I can't pay attention. I do want this off of my list though. Uh it's $1,294 is the

bill I have in front of me. I have $200.

If you'll take that as settlement in full, I will send you the $200."

Okay. And they They scream and yell and call your names, and then they'll take it.

Okay. Get it in writing or don't give them money, and do not let them have electronic access to your checking account. Send them a prepaid debit or a wire or something else. But no access to

your checking account and no money until it's in writing that the $200 is settlement in full. You might take $300,

but you can get rid of that one. You can get rid of these at 20 cents on the dollar on average.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Shelly is in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Shelly.

How are you?

Hi. I'm so happy to be on with you guys today. That's nice. I have a question for you regarding um anxiety over money. And um that's kind

of recent for me in the last 5 years.

Okay. Anxiety over not enough money, too much money?

Piles of money scare you in the middle of the night?

It just is a fear of handling money. Um

I don't We have We live very comfortably. We have absolutely no debt.

Um my husband makes a great living for us both. Um our kids are A fear of messing up?

>> Maybe that's it, but it's I mean, it's even I I can handle paying bills, and it's kind of been my responsibility during the marriage um because he's very

taxed with his job. And um

um but even incoming checks or things

that come in. Um I I'm just very anxious and um it's

gotten to a point now where and and he knows >> sorry. You So, you get a check in the mail and that makes you anxious.

Yes. It's it's it's strange. Is it Have

you always been the one that kind of handles the kind of like the day-to-day of the money or is that new a new role for you?

No, no. I've always handled it and I've always done fine with it. It's only in the last

five >> Are you in therapy for something else?

No. If if you had to link it >> would What would you say this is linked to?

Yeah, if you had to link it to something maybe the way you grew up, something that happened at this time in in in your life or in your childhood, what would you say?

I would I link it to kind of

since COVID it's become very magnified for me. Okay.

So, uncertainty. >> And we Yes. Yes, I would say uncertainty. I try not to listen to all the noise. I I call it noise, but It is noise.

>> that you can listen to a million different things and I try to just walk forward being very stable listening to for you you guys for example and my husband's very very stable in everything um as far as Okay, so I I I would do a couple of things is um now I I I don't know the answer. I'm not a therapist. I wish Dr. John was on with me today.

I'm sorry sorry I mean or wish he was on with you.

So, I'm going to send you a copy of Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. And I'm going to send you a copy of Dr.

John's book on anxiety. Yeah, redefine

>> anxiety. Um because he says anxiety

is your friend because it's an alarm bell going off warning you about something.

Okay? >> I see. And uh and he teaches to solve

for peace so that the alarms can go off. In other words, if the fire alarm's going off, we don't want to take out the batteries, we want to put the fire out.

Sure. Cuz the fire alarm is actually my friend. It's keeping me from burning the house down.

That's what anxiety's doing. It's keeping you from messing up. And so he sees anxiety as your friend because it's saying get out of the street, a car is coming. That's anxiety. It's fear, right? And so

I don't know if there's an actual thing here, but it could be. So I'm going to send you both of those books. I want you to read through them. The second thing is I get I want you to get on a detailed

budget on every dollar.

And I want your taxed husband to look

over it with you and the two of you together approve the budget together.

Okay. >> That won't take a lot out of him. Then when you're writing the checks, you're not making all the decisions and writing the checks, meaning you're not emotionally carrying the weight of the management of the household, you're simply the check writer.

Okay. >> We as a team sat down and looked at every dollar and said this is where our money's going to go, then it doesn't require any anxiety at all for you to simply execute what the team has already told you to do. In other words, if the CFO and I sit down and say these are the bills we're going to pay this month and we hand them to to a lady in accounting and she writes the checks, she has no stress at all.

Sure. Cuz she's not worried about it. I told her what to do and she did it. So you and your husband are the CFO, you're going to decide what to do and then you're going to be the lady in accounting that writes the checks, and that's a different level of stress cuz right now they're intertwined, and each time you write a check or deposit a check, you're also making all the decisions.

So, each of those transactions is is carrying the weight of the whole household, and it shouldn't be.

Okay. Is that logical? It's That's very logical. In his defense, he has tried >> I'm not asking I'm not I'm I wouldn't throw anyone under the bus. I don't think he's a bad guy. Okay. I just want him to help. >> I just wanted to make that clear. >> Yeah, but he but he starts helping today.

Yeah, the day-to-day, you're right, is different >> minutes a week. 30 minutes a week, he looks at the EveryDollar budget, and we make our decisions of where our money's going to go, and then the rest of the week you execute, submit payment on the website.

Okay. And that's really easy for you then. And so, when a check comes in,

that decision's already made before the month begins. We We know that check is coming in. And if an unexpected check comes in, well, that then we have a celebration, and we sit down together quickly and say, "What are we going to do with this extra money?" And we decide that towards our current needs and our future wants.

Understood. Yeah, and I think that's kind of lowered a lot. And And I guess the last thing is start setting some saving and investing goals because I can promise you when you have a million dollars in a mutual fund, your stress level, your anxiety level is lower than when you're broke and can't pay your electric bill.

Well, that's just it. We do have a great net worth. >> You have a what net worth?

We have a great net worth. >> What's that? What's a great net worth?

It's probably just south of 10 million.

Shelly, I can tell you some things practically, and and again, Dr. John's not here, but I can tell you some things that I've done cuz what you're saying, the things I've heard you say, they're so vague. It's like, "Uh, I'm just afraid I'm going to ruin everything. And it's very hard to solve a vague problem.

But what what you can do is spend some time in writing down exactly, try to get as specific as you can, what am I actually afraid of? Am I afraid that uh

you know, if I take this check uh and and use it for something fun, it's going to cause us to not have enough money to to pay the mortgage, therefore you know, snowball effect, right? Write down what it is, and then you can actually have a clear solution to the problem. If you keep it vague, there's never going to be a solution, and you just keep to get to keep spinning your wheels. So, try that.

It has worked for me. Now, details, if you can push facts out onto the page, >> Mhm. facts are your friends, and um

the they will cause your brain to calm down. >> Yeah. Um you know, John talks about it in a trauma situation. What are the actual facts versus what are all the things you're spinning up?

>> Yes. >> What What drama narrative is spinning up in the trauma? And um and and I don't know, there's something happened somewhere, probably maybe your childhood or somewhere, but there there's something associated with this. And I'd I'd want to know what that is if I could figure it out.

That's why I think Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, might be a thing. She talks about the different kind of households we grow up in, uh where the the toxic views of money or stre- high stress around money. I mean, if you saw your mom crying every week over money, uh then you think that's kind of how things are supposed to be.

I got 10 million dollars, but I'm still crying every week over money.

And um you know, I don't know what it is. I I have no idea. But um I I

you know, I appreciate your question. It's an excellent question. A lot of people do struggle with that.

More than anything though, they struggle with this feeling of inadequacy, like I'm not competent.

I'm not good at this. I'm not good at math. I can't do money cuz I'm not good at math. Well, it's the math is like seventh grade, fourth grade, somewhere in there, you learned the math. It's really not difficult. I mean, if you pass your driver's test to drive a car, you can do the math. It's not that hard, but it's intimidating if you categorize it over there as like some kind of mythical thing. And and it's just, you

know, >> I promise you I could teach a 12-year-old how to do this stuff. Um and and even ones that aren't good at math.

So, it's just it it it's doing it and

developing a little bit of a rhythm and a practice and a confidence Mhm.

>> and in your competence and then your stress level just goes down with that.

It's a great question though, cuz you're not the only one feeling this, I promise you. You might be the only one with $10 million feeling it. No, I'm kidding.

Hey, thanks for the call.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. Jade Warshaw, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

Steven's in Oklahoma City. Hi Steven, how are you?

I'm good. How are you doing today, sir? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, I've got uh a lot going on financially. Uh I inherited

some money when my dad passed away a few years ago. And uh it feels like I've just kind of jumped from one disaster to the next with it. And really just haven't had any peace since then.

I've got some rental properties and things like that that I've spent a bunch of money on that are just eating me alive and I'm debating on selling them and just being done with it.

Okay. So, how much did you inherit?

Uh I inherited uh let's say 750,000 in between cash and

stocks and then another 750,000

in equity in a business. Mhm.

Okay. What happened with the What's the status of the business?

The business is still there.

Um my uncle who owns 50% of it um is kind of like taking over it and or

taking it over and he's just he's robbing my brother and I are Uh I helped my dad run it for a long time before he passed away, but um, my

wife and I had a daughter and we figured it was best to move closer to my mom and her family, which is back up here in Oklahoma. So, I stepped away from it and now that I've stepped away from it, you know, it's uh, it's the it's made the same amount of money every year and the profit, like what my end of it is, it just keeps going down and down and down and my brother's keeps going down and down and you know, my brother and I are really debating on forcing him to sell it or or suing him or something cuz I mean, we've had a financial audit and it's pretty clear he's he's taking a lot more than he should be and I just don't have the bandwidth to to deal with it anymore.

Uh, I said I said I said >> Freaking save our $50,000. Get you some bandwidth, dude.

Yeah, I know. I know. It's just I I I don't have any help. That's the problem. My brother's not interested and Why do you need help? >> I tried to get him to uh Hire an attorney, go sit down with your uncle and go, "This is over.

We're selling this. I'm tired of you screwing me." It's a 10-minute conversation.

Yeah, I tried and he starts, you know, he starts yelling and it feels like I just have to go through attorneys the whole thing. >> Well, that's fine. That's fine. You want to yell? I'm going to sue your butt.

Well, the judge will help you with this.

You can't screw me anymore. I'm done with your screw You think you can yell at me and that makes you allowed that makes you okay to screw me? As a matter of fact, that makes you less likely to be able to screw me.

Well, he's just he's under the impression because, you know, I don't >> You're wussing out, dude.

You're wussing out.

Yeah, you're correct on that. It's just I don't know. It's just I hate having drama in my family and it's like >> Okay, then write the then get a piece of paper and sign the thing over to him and walk away from your money. Quit your whining.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I Either fix it or give it to him.

But don't just stand there and get screwed and like it.

Yeah, well, I definitely don't. So, I I guess that would be the solution to that. >> I do one or the other. Make a decision.

Either walk away from it or punt him.

Personally, I'd take great joy in punting a crook.

Why are you scared of him?

>> I don't know. I see he's just the last member of my dad's side of the family left. >> Yeah, which just means he should The last thing he should be doing is screwing you.

I know, that's what I feel feels like, too. I just It's really made me angry cuz I grew up with the guy who was almost like a second father. And then like, you know, the seconds of money >> No, you're not angry. You're afraid. >> Yeah, I think you're scared of him.

You're afraid he's going to yell.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just unfortunate cuz it's like I It's not how I used to be. And then as soon as like the numbers got as big as they are now, it's like I just don't trust myself to make a correct decision anymore on this.

Well, I mean, you trusted yourself to run the business with your dad. And you know how to run the business. And you know what's right. And you're just for some reason you're not unwilling to address this guy. >> brother say? Your brother knows, right?

>> He's a wuss, too.

Yeah, now he he's just Whenever I was running it after my dad passed away, I stayed down there and I did it on my own for a while. And I didn't have any issues. And then you know, I had my daughter and uh I told my brother, I said, "Hey, if you want to come here and and fill my role, you know, you're more than welcome to." And he said he he wants to just keep being a mechanic and and getting a check and uh Yeah. >> said, "I don't know how you're going to It's going to be a problem." And I I knew it was going to be a problem.

No, I I've still got You bought properties, right? >> million in Yeah, I've got a quarter million in in stock and cash left. And then probably I don't know, 200,000 in equity between two properties. But the properties have been uh I I thought I was going to be real estate baron, and I bought a duplex.

Then I was going to live in one side, rent out the other, fix it up. And I ended up buying it in the worst neighborhood in town. House got broken into, car got stolen. And that's not a good place to raise a 2-year-old, so we moved out of that, and it's just been one disaster tenant after another.

And I make good money at the job I have.

I work full-time, and How long ago did you buy that duplex?

2 years ago. Can you just sell it?

Yeah, I'm It's like a It's I've just got people there telling me to sell. They're like, "Oh, don't sell it. Property only goes up." >> People are idiots. They're not in your life. They're not They did not experience the things that you just listed off. >> joy around this duplex. Sell the stupid thing.

Yeah, it's it's been a major point of contention between my wife and I. She just She wants it gone, and I'm just I think I'm finally on board with her.

>> a man of action, are you? >> you're kind of like a glutton for punishment. You're listing off all these horrible things, and we're suggesting, "Hey, just get them out of your life." But for some reason, you want to cling to them with a kung fu grip, and we're telling you just let it go, man. Sell the duplex. >> there is such freedom in making decisions and taking action, even if it's wrong.

But right now, you are completely captive to all these things that you feel like are happening to you, and they're not happening to you. They're just happening, and you're doing nothing about it. >> Mhm. So, you got You need to become a man of action.

Starting today. Ready, set, go.

When you get off the phone, call a real estate agent, go to ramsaysolutions.com, get a Ramsey trusted real estate agent, put the stupid duplex on the market.

When you hang up from that, call an attorney in the town where your uncle lives, and tell him to call your uncle and yell at your uncle.

Cuz it turnabout's fair play. And and we're getting ready to take you down.

We're going to take your underwear, uncle. We're going to take everything you have. We're going to clean out your house. You get nothing. We are taking

you to the ground. You're going to sell this place and write me a check for my half, a fully audited portion, or I'm going to bankrupt your yelling butt. I got a whole new thing for you. And turn that attorney loose. Hire an attorney that you don't even like cuz they're so mean. And turn that guy take him off the leash and say sic 'em.

You're going to have to do some stuff, man. You're standing around watching your life go by like it's someone else's life. You need to step into this thing and punch a few things and take some action and all of the sudden your stress level will go down and your confidence level will come back up. Even if you screw this up, it's going to be a whole lot better life than you have right now. I don't think he can screw it up.

Any worse than it already is.

>> No.

Light him up.

Light him up. I can't think of anybody who sold a duplex and then was like, "Oh, let me get it back." In a bad neighborhood where they stole the car out of the front yard. >> Right. Yes. Oh, I wish I had that back.

Yeah. >> Never has been said.

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Paul is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hey Paul, what's up?

Hey Dave, appreciate you taking my call, sir. Sure. How can we help? Um I've got a real estate question. Um I am looking to buy a lake house, and I have found a house that pretty much checks all my boxes. Mhm. I've called the listing agent and got some information from her, and I think I'm at the point now where I either need to enlist the help of my own real estate agent or get involved in a dual agent agreement with her. Mhm.

And my question is, what are some advantages and disadvantages of being in a dual agent type of scenario, and and would a dual agent scenario benefit me in any particular way?

Well, typically what happens uh and it's

technically negotiable but the typical transaction is say 6% commission the

person bringing the buyer gets half of that and the person that has the listing gets half of that as the real estate agents go. If you are represent if the agent that has it listed does the contract with you the buyer she or he gets both sides of that so they get the entire commission. Obviously I assume you knew that and so

the only advantage might be that since

he or she's getting paid a lot more that they're going to work really really hard to get this deal done.

They know they got twice the incentive to get this closed, right? She's already working very very hard because there's a lot to unpack with the owners and

I just figured that if we entered into a dual raging agreement it would remove one link from the chain of communication. It it it could turn into a pretty complicated sale.

Why?

Well, the owners are in their mid-80s.

They live well out of state. I think they live in Maryland.

She said their cognitive skills are on the decline.

They have a reverse mortgage on this property.

They are supposedly upside down. I don't know how you could be upside down in a reverse mortgage. >> It's impossible.

It seems to be their financial situation seems to be headed for a short sale or maybe even a foreclosure she said. Oh, well, okay.

Must be it's I guess it's possible because the the property could have declined. Is it in disrepair?

It's it's not pristine but it's it'll take some work to update it and fix a few things. So you have any reason why it would have gone down in value 35%?

Cuz reverse mortgages are supposed to cap out at 65% loan to value.

Yeah, I I don't really know anything about reverse mortgages other than they're terrible. Yeah, I mean 65% maximum though, so means there should be 35% equity unless the property went down in value uh by 35% they wouldn't be upside down. That's what I'm confused. I don't know. Okay, so it doesn't matter. She still got to untangle that barrel of fish hooks anyway. And and dual agency simply means

that she has a responsibility to both you as the buyer and a responsibility to the seller, which morally and ethically she does anyway.

Okay? You're not you know, if you're a member of the Board of Realtors, you're supposed to represent all parties in the transaction with ethics. In other words, you don't set out to screw the other side in any case in the real estate business. It's it's it's against ethics.

You get your thrown out of the Board of Realtors for one thing, um get you sued for another thing. And so you just can't you know, just because one party or the other is paying getting paid does not remove you from ethics and your fiduciary responsibility.

to work through all of their complication meanwhile getting you on contract and you and her ganging up on this thing, there's no downside to the dual agency. Uh it just adds another cook it adds another cook in the kitchen if you bring your agent in at this stage. Well, she's already working very hard to get all this information out of the seller. So I mean she would probably be interested in keeping more of the commission to be quite honest. >> Yeah, well I'm sure she would.

Yeah. Yeah, and and >> no issue with that. And honestly, she should have done that before she put stupid thing on the market. So it's kind of incompetent, but um I mean, how how are we going to sell this house that I have for sale? That's a question you would ask before you put a sign in the yard.

Yeah, well, like >> Like said, they're they're in their 80s and they're old and grumpy and and uh I I just it it could turn into a mess for her. Yeah. Not sure you're going to get this house, it sounds like, yeah. Okay, I'm not sure we're going to get these you know this this ski rope's in a got a lot of knots in it. Maybe a while you'll be standing on the boat untangling this puppy. Um I don't know, it's possible, but um

you know, I I don't see a upside or downside either way for you that's dramatic. So, you're working with her, you think she's got it on the run. I would just go with her uh honestly. Uh I mean, there's but if you're if you're out there just wandering around, you're starting to look for a house and you want to get a buyer's agent, that's very standard in today's world.

Uh there's nothing wrong with that either. And a lot of our uh Ramsey trusted real estate agents have a buyer's agent on their team. Mhm. And that's a good thing.

They all they do is represent buyers. It's all they do.

that's a very clean transaction. You're not questioning who's who's getting what. This guy is my guy, that's your guy. And but they still both have to operate from ethics.

>> Mhm. Mhm. They still have to tell the freaking truth, you know? And um

uh so, that that there's a lot of discussion around the a dual agency thing in just the last few years with some antitrust lawsuits and things that came through. But um overall, you know, if you're dealing with good people, they're supposed to do the right thing anyway and that is legally and uh you know, from the Association of Realtors, all of that is is all guiding all of that. All right, James is with us in Los Angeles. Hi James, how are you?

Hey, I'm good. Thank you. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve.

What's up?

So, I want to see if it makes sense for me to sell my car. Um I owe um about

11,000 Well, it's a little complicated.

I It's worth about 9 to 9,500.

Um I owed about 11,000 on the car, but I actually did something kind of stupid and I consolidated my debt into a personal loan and that included my car.

Okay. Um, so >> So you technically owe nothing on the car. Right. So technically I do have the title and Yeah. And you have a $9,000 car. Okay. And how big is your debt consolidation loan?

Uh, 27,000. >> Okay. And what's your income?

Uh, I make about 4,400 a month. Mhm.

Okay.

I would not sell that car.

Okay. Unless you just hate it.

>> make more sense to keep it. >> Yeah. It's not It's not out of control.

Right. Uh, I mean the main the main reason why I was thinking about it is more for like the monthly expenses for the car that I have, you know, without the payment. Say like gas, insurance, things like that. If I were to get something cheaper that was better on gas, you know, but it probably wouldn't

>> Uh, well, I was thinking like So right now I have to budget about 500 a month for gas cuz I commute for work. Mhm. Um,

you know, if I were to get say something more fuel efficient, you know, I could maybe cut that in half or

But it might be it might be that I'm just trying too hard, you know, I'm trying to move stuff around. Yeah. I think >> I don't I don't know if you're going to cut that budget in half. I mean, what are you driving? What kind of gas guzzler is this?

Uh, it's not really a gas guzzler. It's a Ford Edge.

So it's an SUV. Uh, I mean, you know, right now our gas is about six bucks a gallon over here, you know, so It's high. Uh, you know, and then I do commute about 40 miles each way to work. So about 80 miles a day total.

Yeah, I mean, run out some actual miles per gallon and do that sixth grade word math word problem thing. Do you remember that one?

And then, you know, and if I had one that was I mean, what are we going to buy that's going to have half of that? I don't know if you're going to get that half get half of that.

Right. Okay. I really don't. I mean, I I you know, if you could buy a car of exact the same value and cut your gas bill in half and you love the car, that's fine. >> Sure. But the actual $9,000 car is not killing you in out of 27,000. You got other issues there.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I mean yeah, I was thinking like if I could sell it, you know, get something for like four, put you know, move some of that you know, put some of that to 27.

>> Is it just you? Okay. Just me. Yeah.

I I don't think that's your problem.

I think I think you're you're you are I think you're right. You're chasing the wrong thing. Instead, what I'd be looking for is extra income and other places I can cut in the budget. That's a good point. I think there's easier ways to get the $250 back. Yeah, because your

car if your car was 20,000, I would have sold it already. But it's just it's it's not that big a number as a in the ratio of the rest of your numbers to where it doesn't it doesn't change your life, you know? A lot of times we're talking to somebody the car is killing them and so selling the car changes their life.

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Might not be in all states.

>> All right, today's question comes from Andre in California. He says, "I have a 401k that will be maxed out within the IRS limit before hitting the recommended 15% invested.

Will that be enough or should I invest the remaining percentage in a brokerage account outside my work-sponsored 401k?"

Uh so, Andre is referring to baby step four. In baby step four, we tell folks that they need to be investing 15% of their gross income uh every month into

uh a 401k. If they have a Roth 401k, even better. Um And so, obviously, this guy is a high income earner. Uh the max this year is 24,500.

So, if you're able to do that, no problem, you're making over $160,000 a year, unless you're over 50, then the

limit goes up to 32,500, which means

he'd be making over 200, 215. So, yeah, I probably

wouldn't go straight to a brokerage. I'd probably see if I could do some backdoor Roth IRAs first. One for you, one for your wife, if you're married. And then from there, if you have access to an HSA, I'd probably go there next. Mhm.

Um, and max that out. And then if you still have money then, I'd go to, uh, the brokerage account. That's the way I would do it. >> Good, good advice. I like it. So, you know, if you did a back, a backdoor Roth IRA, um, the way that works is, is you, uh, you invest in an after-tax regular traditional IRA, not a pre-tax, an after-tax traditional IRA.

And this year, that's $7,500, okay?

And you can do one for your wife and one for you. And then, as soon as you make that investment, instantaneously, you roll it to a Roth.

And you can do that regardless of income limit. So, I did one.

And I've done one every year for many, many years. And And my wife, every year.

I do it in January, put 15,000 up, boom, boom, and here we go. Actually, I can do 8,000 cuz I'm old. 8,600 now. 8,600 this year.

So, I max them out, whatever I can put in there. That's the most you can do with a backdoor IRA. If you want to get super fancy, uh, you can do a brokerage account beyond that if, I don't know what your income is. We don't have that and we don't have your age, Andre.

So, but let's let's say you're making 600,000 a year and you're trying to keep the government's hands off of as much as you can.

401k backdoor if your company has a Roth

401k. No, it doesn't even have to have a Roth. So, what you can do is you can put up to $72,000

into your 401k in a year.

But anything over the 24 5 or the 32 5

or if you're over 60, it's 11 2 going on anything over those limits, you can go after-tax 401k 401a it's called

and then immediately roll that to a Roth just like the regular backdoor. So that's called a mega Roth or mega backdoor. And so you could do even more. I don't know if I would fool with all of that.

It's a lot to screw with every year.

But the big thing is just make sure you're investing money.

So you know, if you max out your HSA, you did the regular individual IRAs and then you did brokerage beyond that, you'd be just fine. >> Yeah. Yep. You'd be just fine. You're The good news is you're making a lot of money and you're saving a lot of money.

And so you're going to be very wealthy and that's how the formula works.

Betty is in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi Betty.

Hi. Um I just have a question. We have a

33-year-old daughter who has five kids.

She got married well, she got pregnant when she was 18 and then 19.

And it's been on off on again off again relationship for 15 years.

Um Are they married?

>> Yes, they are married now but he can't keep a job.

They moved across country last year cuz he had an opportunity.

He lost that job within 3 months. He's on his third job already and they've only been there a year.

Um the problem is we have no debt. We're we're doing great. And I like to help them out as far as

the kids. I don't send mom and dad money

but if the kids need something I like to

help out. >> What's an example of something they need?

Um school clothes.

Um maybe if they want to go to a movie.

You know, it's nothing elaborate. Um I go take them to the book fairs. I'll send money. She sends me the link. So, I know the money is going to the book fair. Um sometimes I'll send her some cash for gas.

Um What what what is your old nest? What size nest egg do you all have?

I'm sorry. What size is your nest egg?

Well, we'll be right into a million real soon. Okay. And how much money are you giving her a month average? Oh.

I say a hundred if that because >> So, we're talking about a couple of thousand couple of thousand dollars a year maybe.

Maybe. Does she ask for it or you just see the need and step in?

Sometimes she'll do both. She'll send me an Amazon link and say, you know, I needed the girls need this. Do you mind buying it? You know, that kind of stuff.

Or sometimes I might DoorDash pizza to them just cuz I want to. Yeah, and your so your question is what?

My husband's tight.

And he feels like I'm enabling them.

And I don't want to enable them because somehow they've got to come out of this somehow. I mean, they get a big tax return obviously if I kid.

But they go through it because they have no common sense none whatsoever.

>> If they were doing what you would consider well in life and you're still the grandma, do you think that you would still sometimes send them a pizza because you're thinking of it? Do you think you would still take them to the book fair? Do you think you'd still want to go back to school shopping? Cuz the things that you're describing my mother-in-law does and we don't need it. She just likes to do grandma things and in her mind those are grandma things. So, is it the same for you or does it feel different?

No, it's the same for me, but Yeah, I think your husband is tired of your daughter your son-in-law being a bum.

He is and I get it. He is >> Yeah, I get it too. I get it too, but I don't think it's any reason to quit doing what you're doing. I don't think what you're doing is enough money that it's enabling anything. >> Mhm. If you were sending them a thousand dollars a month cash, That's different. >> I'd call you out on it.

Mhm. But you're not.

When they moved, you know, they had to put the money down for the house and then they didn't know

they had to put a down payment down and so we had to scramble and go get fifteen hundred dollars, you know, so they could do that, which they've paid us back. He has never just given them money, never. He makes them pay everything back. Yeah, I think there's two issues I think there's two issues that you're blending together.

I think there's the the grandma moves of those little things that you spend money on that you like to do and then there's the whole issue of like like Dave said, you just don't like the son-in-law. There's this whole issue over there. I would try not to blend them together because I think it it'll take the joy away out of the grandma moves.

Yeah. So I don't So I don't even put those in the same category. They're in different buckets. I might have I might have sided with your husband on that one. I would have just said, "Hey, you guys made your bed, figure it out." Cuz you seem to be just constantly screwing up everything. So uh I'm going to let you figure this out.

Uh I'm going to let you fly until you hit the rocks or or learn to fly. And so in the meantime though, if you buy your grandkids a little bit of school clothes and a pizza, you have not enabled the work less shift less father.

Well, I mean, what point can he change?

I don't know. That's you need to talk to God about that one. I'm I think that's a matter of prayer. He could change tomorrow. You just have no control over him. >> you know. Deciding to work hard is just a decision. Yeah, and deciding to actually show up at work and be pleasant while you're at work so you keep your freaking job. That's a decision, right?

Uh take a bath, brush your teeth, all these kinds of things. These are decisions that some people can't even figure out how to make in today's world, but that's a different thing than what we're talking about. What you called about at the beginning of the phone call, I would defend you on and I

I preach against enabling on this show harshly, but that's not enabling. Yeah. That's just buying your grandkids some stuff and it's partially because

your grandkids parents aren't bright.

Leland is in Oklahoma City. Hi Leland,

how are you? All right, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um so I got a question. I'm 22 years old

and I started a business last year and it's kind of just went backwards on me where I'm to the point now where I've got a piece of equipment that I'm sitting here staring down the barrel of again where they're basically probably going to have to come repossess it the 1st of April.

So you started what kind of business, hon? Um custom dry fertilizer spreading business.

Okay.

And so you bought a you What what the equipment?

It's a applicator that applies dry fertilizer on fields. Mhm.

And what How much do you owe on it?

Uh 178,000.

My annual payment on it's 40 40,000

dollars a year. Mhm. And everything's just went backwards >> confused. I'm confused why they would loan a 22-year-old 178,000 dollars on a

piece of farm equipment.

Well, because I had a way to get into the business and then since then it's just went backwards since then.

I had the money for a down payment, put the money down. How much did you put down?

12,000.

But still, I mean you were not even Were you in the business already?

I've been in the agriculture business all my life. You're 22.

Yes, sir. >> Oh, okay.

All my life is not long.

Um I've been doing it ever since I could I know, honey, but I'm talking about what loans you 178,000 dollars

with a 12,000 dollar down payment when you're 22 years old. There's nothing There's nothing that says this deal should have happened. You can't Leland, you can't turn around and sell it?

I've been trying to. I've tried selling it with an auction company, but they wanted me to put a 100,000 dollars up front before they'd even sell it.

Yeah. And so you had grand plans of spreading

a lot of fertilizer. What happened?

Um I put my name out within a 100-mile radius and the farm economy the way it is, fertilizer prices is high and there's not a lot of people doing dry.

They're all going different routes.

Okay.

I'm sorry, hon. This is scary, isn't it?

It Yeah, it definitely is. Yeah.

It's definitely scary to be sitting here in this position and it's just been haunting me ever since. I guess. Yeah.

All right. Well, I went broke when I was 28 and I had more zeros on the end of my stupidity than you do. So, I I got you beat. Um Right.

Cuz this was straight-up stupid. And the guy that loans you the money deserves to lose $100,000. Whatever company did this. What's the name of the company?

I can't remember off the top of my head and I You owe them $178,000 and you don't know the name of the company?

Yeah. Well, I do. It's on a piece of paper at my house and I don't have that information in front of me. You bought it at a dealership, didn't you? What brand is it? John Deere. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so.

So, you don't know John Deere Incorporated the money. No. No, absolutely not. Okay. All right.

And and my plan was, you know, do 10,000 acres a year. That can be done extremely

easy and I found out the hard way that it has not been near as easy as what everybody said it was supposed to be. So, the moral of the story is we don't borrow money to start businesses because things never turn out exactly the way they're supposed to in business. That's the rule of business. And so, that's the a lesson that sadly you have learned.

The only good news is you learned it at 22. I learned it at 28. So, I had the rest of my life to not do that stupid mistake again and you have the rest of your life to not do the stupid mistake again. So, the next time you have a bright idea and someone wants to loan you money to do your bright idea, you tell them no, right?

Yes, sir. Okay, good. All right. So, we've learned our lesson.

Now, let's walk through it.

Um So, I do not know a way around this

because I don't know your world.

I'm still just sitting here aghast that someone loaned you that money. loaned you $178,000 to spread fertilizer. That There's just so many fertilizer jokes that I could weave into this, but um Yeah. >> Yeah, it just kind of come they they just they just roll off the mind right now. But anyway, the um the spreading of

fertilizer is pretty thick here. But the um uh So, let me tell you what I think is going to happen and how you can handle it.

Okay? I think you're going to get repoed at the first of the month.

I don't know how to tell you to stop that with anything that's reasonable.

One thing you could stop it with is a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, but that's a or a Chapter 11 bankruptcy even in this case, but that's a pipe dream because the business idea is dead and there's no way to revive the cash flow.

If you could revive the cash flow starting 2 months from now, you know, we could delay the repo and put it by putting it into a bankruptcy, but I wouldn't do that here because I think this business idea is just a swing and a miss.

Right. So, I think they're taking it at the first of the month. Okay, then what's going to happen is they're going to sell the piece of equipment for X number of dollars at that same auction and then they're going to come knocking on your door for the difference. It's called the deficit.

Okay? So, let's play pretend. Let's play pretend and there's $178,000 owed and they sell the piece of equipment for $100,000 and they come see you for $78,000. You're 22 years old. You don't have any money.

Right. That's where we're going to be.

It's probably going to be a year before they knock on your door wanting the difference.

It's not going to be soon.

Okay? And when they do, uh normally what happens is they push you and push you and the person files bankruptcy and they get nothing on their $78,000 in our example

story here. Okay? However, you have a year to prepare for this battle and were you to save up during this coming year by working your little tail end off uh $25,000 and you offer them $25,000 as

settlement in full on the deficit, they'll probably take it cuz they're used to getting nothing.

Right. We settle deficits on car repossessions at 20 25 cents on the dollar every day.

I've not done it much on farm equipment, so I don't know that world, but it's probably pretty close.

And the reason we're able to settle those deficits at that is because they very seldom collect anything. Usually the person files chapter 7 bankruptcy, they get a big goose egg, zero.

Especially when you look at Look at it through the creditor's eyes, not to put you down, Leland, but looking at it from the banker's perspective, I'm trying to get money out of a 23-year-old who's broke. The likelihood of that's close to zero.

Right. >> So, if he stands up and offers me 25K, I do a little happy dance and take it if I'm the banker.

You follow me? >> Right. So, what are you going to do for a living now that your life is starting over, sir?

I mean, I'm pretty much self-employed and don't have I mean, I don't have a college degree and What are you going to do for a living, sir?

Going to farm. You're going to farm? Whose farm are you farming?

Uh some some friends.

You're going to work on a farm?

>> Yes. For someone else?

Yes. And what does that pay?

It just depends. Sometimes $25 an hour, depending on who you're working for.

Okay. All right. And then ask yourself, what do I want to be doing when I'm 32 that I'm a millionaire and it's not $25 an hour work. I'll help you with that.

Yes, sir. And it's not going into debt $178,000 to spread manure.

Oh, no, this was dry. I'm sorry.

Yes. Okay. But anyway, you see the point. Yeah, so you got to figure out what am I going to do next cuz one of the things that I discovered when I went bankrupt because I couldn't turn it around the way I think you actually can turn it around if you'll work like a crazy person and stack cash and keep your living expenses very, very low. I think you can scratch up some cash and settle the deficit when they do come after you 1 or 2 years from now.

Don't call them. Wait for them to call you and in the meantime build a war chest.

And then settle it in full in writing settlement.

And I think you can get through this. I really do. And then you can just look at this in the rearview mirror as that dumb thing I did when I was 22.

I I can look at my life in the rearview mirror that whole series of dumb things I did when I was 28. >> Yep. You can you guys paid off you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars because of dumb things you did in your early 20s. >> of stupid things.

>> Yeah. And so it's you know, you're talking to the choir here, okay? Singing to the choir. So but I do want you to develop a future and a plan that doesn't involve a Hail Mary.

Don't do that again.

Learn learn from the mistake.

And we'll walk with you. Anything you need, Leland, you call me. And if you want to save up that money and when they mess with you, you call me. I'll tell you I'll walk you through it. I'll show you how to negotiate with them.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality is my co-host. Abigail is in Norfolk, Virginia. Hi Abigail, how are you?

Hi, how are you Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, um I am calling you today at the uh

behest of my 10-year-old son who is also

a huge fan.

Um with the question of of how can I be

financially secure, my family be financially secure and get out of debt when um my husband is dragging his feet and not willing to participate.

I'm kind of disturbed that your 10-year-old son is involved in that discussion. >> Right.

Well, um I have been >> towards his father.

Uh yeah.

He's not the only one either.

I have four sons and um I've been very transparent not not not

not sharing everything obviously with them about our financial situation, but um we have lots of discussions about what is or isn't in the budget and what has been happening and what needs to happen and um I do now have an 18-year-old and a 20-year-old son who are actually making great submissions.

Um but my my situation um

over the past year has uh really been very very difficult as I've had funding cuts and been ill and needed surgery and um

with this December recovering from the surgery worrying about how we were going to pay the mortgage.

Mhm.

Okay. All right. Please don't put that burden on your 10-year-old.

Oh, no. His shoulders His shoulders are not big enough to carry that. Yeah, I have not put it on him. >> Well, he said he said for you to call and discuss this with me, so that's what you said. So, Tell us about him. Tell us about what's going on. Why have you not you and your husband not sat down with a marriage counselor yet?

We've been sitting down with a marriage counselor for a year. Good. Are you making progress?

Um very very very small baby steps. Okay.

All right. There's a lot of issues in our marriage as you probably would guess. Right.

Um every type of infidelity

um including the most recent issue actually discovered by said 10-year-old.

Um and uh Um so uh I'm sorry. What did the 10-year-old discover, darling?

He discovered my husband's infidelity last year. With a woman?

Yes.

Yeah, through text messages. Y'all are a hot mess.

What is your 10-year-old doing in your husband's texts?

Oh, he um he intercepted them on his iPad cuz it was connected.

It was a completely innocent thing on his end. I'm just I I I Oh boy. It was very traumatic. It was very traumatic for Okay, so the answer to your original question is you can't.

How do we move ahead financially and build wealth and build stability? You can't. Yeah. >> Until you work through a lot of these dysfunctions and you have so many major dysfunctions going on that you've mentioned that minor baby steps are not

enough. So, I either need my therapist to put it into gear or I need a new therapist.

Because I'm not going to exist in this environment very much longer.

And I'm certainly not going to allow my child to exist in this environment very much longer.

So, um we've been in Wait wait a minute.

Let's see. wait a minute, we've been in therapy a year and making baby steps, but just the other day he discovered infidelity. >> Well, I I I take >> Did I Did I get that right? >> Yes, take this as a grain of salt cuz I'm no I'm I have no letters behind my name, but it sounds like there's a lot of things probably in therapy that are supposed to be happening and they're not happening on his end.

She can't control that, so she's looking for something she can control, which is probably the baby steps, feels like something that's within her control. That's what it sounds like. >> Yeah.

I can't give you great hope that you're going to get become financially prosperous and efficiently work through the baby steps to get out of debt and into wealth um, in this environment.

So, the environment has to change for you to be able to win, hon.

And, um, I desperately want your 10-year-old to have a new environment. >> I agree. Um, this is very disturbing.

And so, um, yeah, you if I'm in your shoes, we're going to turn up the heat in therapy or we're going to or we're going to call this. We're going to end it.

Um, and if there's recent infidelity while we're in therapy on the marriage, I don't know what your percentages are

from recovering from that, but they're low.

Um, and so, uh, yeah, I can't I don't I don't I've never personally dealt with that, so I just don't know.

But, I mean, you got a lot of things that are hurting. You got a lot You got a lot of wounds, a lot of open open wounds right now that are just gushing and you guys need to get some help through that stuff before you can even talk about the financial stuff. >> Yeah.

So, guys, here's the thing.

Uh,

personal finance is 80% behavior.

It's 20% head knowledge.

Behaviors are affected by our spiritual walk. Behaviors are affected by our relationships.

Behaviors are affected by our family of origin.

How much fun did your dysfunctional family put in dysfunction? Yeah. And so, you know, all of that, right? What did you come from? Where are you going? What soup are you sitting in right now?

And um those things affect your ability to build wealth more than they mathematics do. The mathematics will correct themselves if you can get functional human beings to function functionally. Yes.

Yes. >> You know, I mean, you know, it's it's a I mean, so marriages that don't work very seldom that aren't working well almost never create a solid financial situation.

Very rarely.

Very rarely. Okay?

>> Yeah. Um people who are you know, one of the things we've dealt with I've been doing this for 40 years is 100% of addicts You're right.

>> have financial problems eventually.

Um because it's a dysfunction Yeah. that that it costs money. Whatever the addiction is. And so, um 100% of them

end up here. But when we're dealing with the money, we're not really treating the problem, we're treating the symptom. The addiction is the problem. If you're dealing with a divorce and a marriage that's falling apart, that's the problem. The money issues are the symptom. Yeah. And so, you can't fix the

symptom, you have to fix the problem.

You can cut a dandelion down with your lawnmower, but it's going to grow back with three more next week.

So, the only way to get rid of the dandelions out by the roots. >> Pull it up. You got to go to the problem. All the way down, right? And and then the dandelions gone. And that that's what they are. And so, when I went broke, it was a reflection of my

lack of character, my lack of maturity, my lack of a quality spiritual walk. Um

and it you know, I I wasn't like some kind of pristine human being that just did the math wrong. Now, it never works that way. It never works that way. So, you know, anytime you're struggling with money, you always want to go to the source and go, "What is causing my behavior change

or my behavior to be dysfunctional?

That's why I'm having money problems." Yeah. It's a foundation you have to build on. The foundation has to be stable.

You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more.

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Or if you're watching on the YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. Karen is in New Jersey. Hey Karen, how are you?

Hey Dave. I'm I've been better.

Okay, what's up?

I missed calling because I wanted to know cuz I know I listen to your show a lot and I know that you talk to people just not just about finance, but how to kind of like deal with issues. So, my husband

recently um took out money out of um

well, I say or it's his um

401k or um on a HELOC loan from our

mortgage. But without my knowledge and then ended up getting scammed out of that um money. How do you rebuild like from

that?

Uh how much money was it and what what did he use it for that he got scammed out of? Um so it was it was like uh close to

100,000.

I know. I know. I listen.

Um and >> he do with it? Basically, it's kind of like he was giving it to this um I'm doing air quotes um person who said that they were in parts of online bank that said that it was investing. Oh boy.

>> Um yeah, investing it to get a return.

How did you find out? Did he tell you or did you discover it? >> He came to me. No, he came to me and he told It took him uh you know, a little, but he came to me and he told me.

Um yeah.

Wow. When did he tell you?

months

It's a little while ago.

Mhm.

Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. Well, I don't know what a little while ago is. Yesterday or 6 months ago?

No, no, like uh uh a month ago. Okay. All right. And what is your household income? What do you make and what does he make?

Um we make over 100 um 100,000.

>> Mhm. Okay. What was the 401k? Did he

Take it all out of there? Did he cash it out? >> must have borrowed against it. Yeah.

He He borrowed against it.

>> Okay. And how did he take out a HELOC without you signing for it? It's on your personal residence.

Yeah. No, the HELOC I knew about. I just didn't know he was going to be borrowing from it. Like I Oh, you were You knew it was open and you had signed for it and then he just drew on it. Right. Exactly. At first

yeah, and at first cuz I know >> there's two problems.

Yeah. >> One is we're out a $100,000 and two is you no longer trust your husband cuz he lies. Yeah.

And yeah, I think that's the harder part. >> Oh, it is the harder part. You're right. Good a good a good observation.

Yeah. So, what are we doing to rebuild trust,

respect, to keep you from killing him in his sleep? I'm kidding.

I'm kidding. That was a joke. Don't kill him. No. And uh no, I'm serious. Are y'all sitting down with a marriage counselor?

Not not yet. It's It's so hard. >> I know. I know, and it's something that I But It's not going to get better. You're getting progressively pissed.

>> Yeah, what's the hold up? Yeah. I

He's not ready yet. He's not ready?

What are you saying?

He ought to be on his knees begging forgiveness. Not only did he lie, he was stupid with the money. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> He got scammed by Nigerian prince. Come on.

I know. I I know. >> still walking around like this is okay?

>> Yeah, that's a problem. You didn't make him realize he needs to be sleeping with one eye open.

I'm trying to give a lot of grace.

>> No, you don't need to give grace till there's repentance. I hear no repentance.

Yeah. >> No grace, no repentance. No repentance, no grace. These go together. I was stupid. I will never lie to you again. I have screwed up beyond belief.

Please don't leave me, good woman.

These are the words that should have come out of his mouth as soon as he uttered the fact that he'd screwed up and gave $100,000 to the internet Nigerian prince. Oh my god.

Yeah, I know he like he has he has but he's he's sorry and and apologetic.

>> ready to make it right cuz those are just words. That's just lip service.

Right? Mhm. The work The actions are what make it better. Dr. Delony says behavior is a language.

So, I want to make it right and I want to figure out how to rebuild trust in this relationship. And so, we're going to sit down with a marriage counselor.

And this is you talking to him tonight and we're going to do this within the next 7 days or you're going to have another problem with me. I'm not going to be here.

Because I can't trust you.

You're a liar.

We have to start there and rebuild.

Yeah, it's tough, man.

Okay. Yeah.

So, I mean you you got to there there you have to go to ground on this and start from solid and and then you put systems and processes in place where you agree, okay? I'll give you an example.

I used to do lots and lots and lots of real estate deals that my wife never knew about, not because I was hiding them from her, but because she was playing Southern Bell and said, "Whatever you want to do, honey. You just do whatever you do down there at the office. That's okay." And I did and I screwed up Christmas.

Okay? I messed up everything. I lost my

butt.

And so one of the things I've learned from that is that I no longer make any major financial decisions without my sweet little Southern Bell passive-aggressive wife being involved in the decision.

Okay? And so we don't buy trucks, we don't buy

boats, we don't buy houses, we don't buy

commercial property to develop, which I bought one the other day, drove her down there in the truck, we sat on the dirt and looked at it. Do you think this is a good idea? She said, "Yes, this one's going to work." We don't make decisions unless we make them together. That's a new system that went in place after Dave was stupid.

You have a new system that goes in place. He don't make any more decisions without you knowing what the flip's going on and you being in agreement.

This is major.

This touches the same nerve in your relationship as if he'd had a sexual affair with another woman.

It's the same level of betrayal.

Because he lied about a hundred thousand

dollars and then on top of that he was stupid about it. >> Mhm. And then on top of that he acted like he's the one that has to be ready to fix it. >> I have to be ready. I'm not ready to go to a counselor. I got you're ready. Mhm.

Mhm. Come on, man.

Shh. Yeah, no, you need to you need to guys need to be in marriage counseling yesterday and they can guide you a good one can guide you through the process of transparency being in agreement before we move forward on anything ever again the rest of our lives. That was 30

almost 40 years ago that I went broke.

And I still to this day not because I'm in repentance about it but because it's a good way of living your life.

>> Absolutely. The right way to live my life is I have a better life when Sharon and I are aligned and in agreement on things. I make better quality decisions.

She makes better quality decisions. When we do these things together. We don't just come in unannounced. I just invested heavily in a Nigerian prince on the internet.

Yeah. >> You're killing me. You're just killing me. Cuz the the questions and you the questions you have to ask yourself if you're in her shoes is what if it if it hadn't gone wrong, when would he have told me? Or would it have just been this thing? And then you have to ask when somebody lies like that you have to ask yourself, well, what else are they lying about? Yeah, when it when it got to a million dollars, is that when he was going to leave? >> Right.

Yeah, it's tough. That's a that's tough.

I I don't envy that situation one bit, but she it's the ball's in her court now. >> Sharon, we're we're mad with you and for you uh because we want healing to happen there and the beginning of healing is repentance.

I'm sorry. I goofed up. What do we got to do to make this right? That's repentance. Repentance is I'm walking the wrong way.

I stop and I walk the other way. I do a 180. He's not doing that. I'm not ready. I got your ready.

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, David and Penny are with us. Hey guys, how are you? We're doing pretty good. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. Where do y'all live? So, we live about an hour north of

Salt Lake in a tiny little town called Hyrum, Utah. Oh, fine. Very cool.

>> Yeah. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off? $336,834.12.

Love it. How long did this take? 2 and 1/2 years. >> Whoa! And your range of income during that time? So, we started at 200,000 and by the end of it we were making 250.

>> Nice. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? So, I'm in the military, I'm in the Air Force, and she's working for a defense contractor. Wow. Well, thank you for your service, both of you. Incredible guys. So, I'm going to guess and say that kind of debt in that type of town in Utah might have been your house. No. No.

No. That was 13 years of bad choices.

>> Holy smokes. That's everything from school loans, credit cards, HVAC loans, cars, >> Wow. personal loans to pay off the credit cards, which were just more credit cards. >> Yep. This just got very interesting.

Wow.

It makes you kind of sick to >> 2 and 1/2 years ago that your life turned completely upside down or right side up? So, I was at work and I really

did not enjoy my job and I was listening

to just YouTube on my headphones wondering what in the world I'm going to do from a day-to-day basis and your show popped up and it became kind of like a therapeutic thing just to listen to people who had more credit card debt, who had it worse than us. I'm like, "Hey, yeah, we're not that bad. I mean, we have $86,000 >> Compared to Ramsey callers, that's not who you want to compare to. Exactly.

And then all of a sudden I started getting the debt-free people and I was like, "Wait. No, you can't live like this. Like, debt's normal. You need a credit score." And then I started, you know, actually listening.

was over it, it was just completely separate. It was a mess. And I was like, "Wait, I think we can actually do this." And I paid off my first credit card. And I was like, "Oh my god, I think we can do this." And I went and I got a side job as a janitor scrubbing toilets at a college on a weekend to start putting more money towards it. So, I was making $100,000 a year working with people and they're like, "You make how much?" I'm like, "Yeah, I know. Just just trust me.

We'll get there at the end of this." And then I showed it to him on one of my lunch breaks. I was like, "Hey, can we please just look at this together?" And showed him that there was a path forward out of this. Which was amazing cuz I didn't see any path forward. I think every night would be just up in the night, pacing, worrying, stressing, and >> Wow.

every there's no way to get out of it. And then she showed it to me.

We can do it." Wow.

>> And that day we canceled every single credit card Wow. >> without without hesitation. No, they all went that day. >> I think they were all done before lunch break. Yeah, how did you How did you feel right after?

Scared, because it's just a different way of being it, but you know what? In 2 and 1/2 years, we have not had to use any sort of that product, and it's been amazing. I've slept every night. You slept every like a baby, I bet.

>> Yep. Never once stressed again. So, same amount of debt until but going down.

Yep. But but you had a plan and you could see a light at the end of the tunnel that's not an oncoming train. >> Oh, yeah. We hit it hard. We that next month, we started selling anything we can sell to sell it get rid of it. We don't need it. Yeah, we were in the So, we bought an older home, and we were in the middle of a bunch of home renovations, and those all came to a halt. So, one of my most excited things

is I'm going to get baseboards. Cuz we haven't had baseboards in years, but now we can afford it. >> Yes. This woman has a low bar for happiness. >> Yes, I baseboards.

And that was part of our what we did when we had no or when we were trying to get no debt is we just we could tear down everything in our house to get get everything ready to do projects. It was free. >> So, ah. We have at least half the house that's just bare walls.

>> Yeah. Ready ready to be remodeled. >> motivate you. Yeah.

That's very interesting.

So, cleaning toilets, that's probably one of the most extreme side jobs.

What else you got, David? Did you do anything crazy? Not as crazy as that. I took an assignment that put me away from everyone for a year, so we actually had to live in two separate two separate areas. She was living there in Utah. I was having to live in middle of Southern California doing a job that was going help help us continue making more money continue just bringing our life down to as low as we can and I didn't I didn't drive for a whole year.

I biked 14 miles back and forth to work every day. >> gosh. Just trying to make sure we can save as much money as we can. Yeah, cuz you guys did this fast. Yeah. I mean you lit into it. You you know, but here here's what's interesting. I want you guys that are watching this or listening to rewind it at some point to when they were talking about when they both sat down and looked at it and he said I saw a way forward. You if you watch you can

see their faces change just talking about that moment that hope came.

Hope is so powerful. It really is. One of my favorite quotes by you is hope deferred makes a heart sick and that was us. I mean we were living financially just separate.

We even though our bank accounts were together, we weren't talking about it. We didn't have goals. We didn't have dreams. It was just what can we do to get to the end of the next paycheck and now it's not like that anymore.

>> I saw a way forward. That's what that was your word, David, I believe. I saw a way forward. >> Yes.

And you know, you look at the math and you went for the first time I see a way out. Mhm. And that that just makes me cry. I mean that's so powerful because when you see that then you can run.

Yeah. >> Yeah. You can run. I mean I don't care how tired you are.

You can bike 14 miles. You can you can do anything. You can clean toilets. Oh wait a minute, you did.

Yeah, hello.

Mhm. You know, if you're just doing those things to exist, that's completely

different than seeing a way out. And I'm so proud of y'all. Well done. So who was

cheering you on? So that's the weird

part about this. I grew up extremely poor. Like seven, you know, people on

$10,000 or less a year. We were on welfare. So it's not like we ever had a

ton of money given to us and his grandma

actually cheers us on and she believes in us, and she's taken these principles to heart. But, outside of just having

like below earn below average earning family members, we didn't really have a ton. We just had each other to feed into this whole process. We learned to live life for ourselves. Yeah. To make something better for what for us, for our kids.

Yeah. Well, you did change your family tree, for sure. Oh, yeah.

>> Wow. I mean, you you knock out $337,000

in 2 and 1/2 years, folks. That's 150,

170 grand a year, only making 200 to 250. I mean, they're living on beans and freaking rice. I'm not eating rice anymore. We can't eat rice anymore. Never. I don't ever want to see no more rice no more.

Wow. That I you just had two really amazing transformations. The one is going from separate separate money and having things separate to just deciding one day, uh, we're going to put it together.

And then from you, your background, and just deciding, I don't want to I don't want to be like that. No. I I could not bring myself to live like that. I can't put my kids through that. I can't have them worrying what's going to happen when it comes time for mom and dad to retire. >> Mhm. So, yeah, it's just This is it.

Well, they've had a front row seat to watching heroes in action, though. Yeah.

I mean, they watch you do whatever it takes to win. You pay a price to win, and you win at it, and they watch it.

They You've changed their lives by the example you set, not to mention the mathematics that have going to be going to them now, cuz you're going to be multimillionaires now. Well, you know what's funny is, through this whole process, it was, "Hey, can we do something this weekend?" Yes, if it's free. So, we did some hikes, we went to the library a lot. So, now, if we go to buy something, my oldest one will be like, "Can we afford that? Do you have money for that?

Is that in the budget?" She'll call us out. Wow.

Well, again, and so, that's going to affect who she goes on a date with as to when she's choosing a husband someday.

She's going to go, "No, I don't think you're right. No, I'm not doing that." Yeah, the second they pull out a credit card, I hope she gets up and walks out the door.

Or you'll help him out. >> Or grab grab grab some scissors and get a get a get a cross out. I love it. You guys are great. I'm so proud of you.

Very, very well done. All right, David and Penny from Utah, $337,000

paid off in 2 and 1/2 years making 200 to 250. You guys are amazing. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. 3 2

1 WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

THIS IS HOW IT'S DONE, BOYS and girls.

Hope in action.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar Budget app. Every Dollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to

free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth.

And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show and it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Our scripture of the day, 1 Corinthians 16:13-14.

Be on your guard. Stand firm in the faith. Be courageous. Be strong. Do

everything in love.

G. K. Chesterton said, "There is only one certainty in life and that is nothing is certain." Facts. Uh we'll go with that. Kyle is in uh Nebraska. Hey, Kyle, what's up?

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? >> Um So, with my current job, housing is provided in my salary. So, um in approximately, give or take, 8 to 10 years, I'll probably leave this job and take a job in which I will need to have my own home and purchase it. So, the question really is uh is there an advantage one way or the other to take out a a mortgage now and pay on

that during this time and pay the interest and possibly rent that house out uh while I'm here or just wait and stack

up cash and when I leave this place in 8

to 10 years, just use that as the down payment towards the home?

>> What do you do for a living? >> Um I'm a rancher. You're a rancher. Got you. Okay. Yep. So, Are you Are you single or married?

Nope, I'm married. Okay, and what does she do? >> Married and right now just Okay, right now, stay-at-home mom. She raised the kids, but in a couple months, she's going to take a full-time job, which is going to double basically double our annual take-home pay. My take-home pay right now is about 40,000. >> Okay. You're very wise to start planning this because a lot of people in your situation um when the uh housing arrangement ends with the job, they seem to be surprised.

And so, I don't know why, but you but they are. And so, you're very wise to look out there into the future and say, "I've got to get ready." Um so, there are two possible things that you can do.

One is, like you said, take a mortgage out and buy a home. It probably will not be the home you live in.

That that I would not recommend that. I would just say, "What is a good rental property, a good price range, a good location that's going to go up in value?" And we're going to do that with the idea of getting it paid off during

this 7-year period of time.

Mhm. By the way, the people following the Total Money Makeover baby steps and becoming baby steps millionaires eventually typically pay off their home in about 7 to 8 years.

And so, your schedule kind of fits with that. All right. So, we're going to put a renter in it. We're going to have a little bit of a mortgage, and we're going to pay it off as fast as we possibly can, 7 years or less. So, when

this happens, you sell that house, take the money from that, and buy a home that you live in. Okay?

Because you will have had the increase in value during that 7 years. You'll have to do some repairs to it when the renters move out, some repairs to it while the renters are there. But you'll have you know, have have the hassle of being a landlord and all that. Then that's part of the program. But you're you're investing money that's going up in value.

Okay? Yes. That's one way to do it.

Another way to do it is a lot simpler and will give you about the same result is sit down with a financial calculator with your SmartVestor Pro by finding them at RamseySolutions.com and say how much do I need to put in a good growth stock mutual fund per month

to have the equivalent of a house price 7 years from now.

And so I want $500,000 and how much does that mean I need to put away on a 7-year schedule? And basically you pay yourself a house payment into mutual funds and they will

be growing at, you know, the typical rate that the market grows around 11 or 12% during that time. So you're getting all that growth and

you're of course adding to it each month and you just have it in your budget a house payment. But it's you're paying yourself a house payment. So when you leave there, you look up, there's the half million dollars that you planned on or whatever the number is that you want to aim at. That feels like the simpler

path. Yeah, that's the easy one.

Sure. Okay.

Yep. So you either one of those will get you there, but you you are going to have to allocate time and effort and money to this starting today or you're going to come up short when you make this transition. Yeah.

Ashley's in Birmingham. Ashley, how are you?

Hi there. I'm doing all right. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

What's up?

Well, actually it's I wanted a little bit of advice on because my husband and I we've been together for 21 years, married for 19. And we've been very lucky to stay,

you know, like, you know, out of debt since we had paid off our last home, but it got to where as the years went by, things got to where it was just practically unlivable. So around this time my Uncle Billy had passed away from COVID and I was like

his next of kin, but his you know, his I don't want to go into it, you know, too much, but just in short his girlfriend was, you know, stole a large portion of my inheritance and when all that was said and done and I was having to pay her a large sum of money, I only had, you know, a portion of the stuff that I've got to be able to >> Well, I'm sorry. How did you have to pay his girlfriend money? Right.

We went through a media What it is is she was claiming to be common law wife

and she was So, you got the money from the estate?

Uh well, >> they make you give it back?

Uh yeah, I had to we went through a mediation. She was wanting to keep the house and and pay me $50,000 and

and Yeah, but I mean you were living already, okay, and then he died and you got the money from the estate and she came at you and you ended up having to give some of that up in mediation.

Oh, yes. I gave her $74,000.

>> No, you gave her $74,000 that Uncle Billy had given you shortly before that at his death.

Yes. And so you Okay. Okay. She sold a Actually, she sold >> doesn't cause you to be in debt.

No, but see I but the thing is is

well, the reason why I'm kind of going into that is because I've got

we had to get a loan like to to renovate

his grandparents house because, you know, since we could no longer live in our old home because it was getting to the point where it was just unlivable and we were paying for it already been paid for, what happened was is my husband grandfather offered to let us have the house that him and his wife lived in when they were first married 69 years ago. And he was giving us the house you know, but we would have to renovate it. So, we had to take out a loan for like $40,000. Now, we're kind of suddenly like going into debt.

Now, I've got I've still got to pay What about the old house? What about the other house that you you and your husband Oh, that It like a mobile home. It wasn't a house. >> Understood.

It was just It's just in shambles. I mean, like the roofing is really bad.

It's just It's I mean, it's >> Okay. So, you were living in the mobile living in the mobile home, it turned into a wreck, you were given a home a family home, but it needed to be renovated. How much debt did you take out to renovate it? >> 40,000. 40,000 and we don't even know if that's going to be enough to do the work. We're trying to make sure >> What's your household income?

Well, uh only recently I got a better job cuz I was only making uh What's your household income?

Um well, now it was more so like 40

30,000 for him and last year I only made

like 14,000 and something.

>> So, you don't work much. Okay. Sounds like you need to be working more.

We need more income coming in this house. And then you guys are going to have to start happening two things.

Everything in this story happened to you. Yeah. >> You didn't happen to anything.

Dr. Stephen Covey says in the book Seven Habits of Highly Effective People that highly effective people, one of the seven habits is they are proactive. They happen to things instead of things happen to them. You act like all this happened to you. No, you chose to take a

family home that you did not have the money to repair and so you chose debt.

You could have chosen to dump the trashy trailer and rent an apartment and had no debt.

>> Mhm. You could have chosen that.

Uh I hope to God that Grandpa put his house in your name if you're putting $40,000 of your borrowed money into his house. That would be double stupid.

So, don't do that. Get it into your name and you guys are going to have to start happening two things. Now, you happen to this 40,000 by working like crazy people. Both of you work six jobs and live on beans and rice. Get this done and then pay cash for any more renovations above the 40,000 that you're doing. Don't put another $40,000 in debt on this house. You can't you when you only make 40,000 in the year. >> stop this.

And Uncle Billy story had nothing to do with any of this.

Except that you thought it was going to bail you out.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 132. Risk Is Always Part of the Equation When Taking On Debt | January 26, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:47:52 |

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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. [music] From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show.

I'm George Kamel joined by best-selling author Jade Warshaw.

>> [music] >> If you know, you know. Give us a call at 888-825-5225

and we will do our best to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Sarah is going to kick us off in Chicago. What's going on, Sarah?

Hi, thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can Jade and I help?

>> Uh Uh so, I'm 30, my husband's 31, our household income is about 235.

Uh my parents had set up a 529 plan for

me when I was young, which I ended up using to pay for the majority of my undergrad and grad schooling.

Um I did take out a couple of federal loans just to cover the remainder of my grad school, which we still owe about 35,000 on. Uh recently, my parents asked me to pay them back roughly $114,000

for the money that I used from my 2529

plan. What? Come again now.

So, is that the money they put in or was that the balance of the account?

That was the balance of the account.

>> That's wild. >> this is in- They don't even understand math.

>> [clears throat] >> Like they may have put in 30 grand that grew to 114 and now they want you to pay the 114. The interest. They comp- They want you to cover the compound growth that cost them nothing. Was this ever the plan? Like had this ever been stated to you ever at any point that you would have to pay this back?

I don't remember it that way, but my dad

is a lawyer. So, naturally he had

created a promissory note. Could you

sign it? I signed it before Yeah, before I was I went to school. >> you read this note now as an adult?

Yes. And what does the fine print say?

It says that I promise to pay my parents

all sums paid to me for my secondary education including without limitation tuition, housing, and living expenses.

>> Yeah, but sums interest. Sums is the interesting part. All sums paid to you.

Yes.

This is So, I I just didn't understand that when I was signing it. I kind of

understood it more as like my um requirement to be able to get a >> him Let him take you to court. I think this would be a hilarious way to end the relationship with his daughter. What a way to go.

This is wild. >> what I'm worried about. What was your relationship like prior to this with your parents and or just dad?

Um pretty pretty good uh before this. So, it's kind of coming out of left field. >> Are they broke? >> Um they've been pretty Like what's the underlying reason why now you know, over

a decade later they're like, "Hey, remember that contract you signed when you were a child?" Yeah, have they brought it up at any other point other than now?

No, no, not really. And how long have you been out of school?

Um I graduated grad school about a year and a half ago. Okay, so okay. Um when you brought it up or have you brought it up?

Um I just basically asked them I told

them I wasn't aware it was a loan. They sent me the contract. They sent me the contract and then they said, "Let's talk about it." And so, we're going to talk about it tomorrow. Okay, okay, so you need prep for tomorrow's conversation.

Yeah, prep the conversation. I I'll tell you right now um if you I'm going to bel- I believe you

when you say I had no idea that that's what I was signing. If you know in your heart of hearts that you did not know what that was and that you had no idea that you were going to pay back this money. If you can say in your heart of hearts that that's the case, then I think that that you go in there and you say, "Hey guys, I had no idea. I was 18 years old.

I don't even remember this paper. I know that I'm looking at it that it's signed, but when I tell you I had no understanding that that's what this meant, I am telling you the truth. There is no part of me that understood that I would be paying back this money. If I had, I would not have signed this and I feel very blindsided by this and I don't have the money and I would like to ask if this can be forgiven because

everything that I do know about money tells me that a 529 is there for education. So, I am under the impression

that that's what this money is for. And I would just say it like that and see what they say.

Okay. Yeah, I I don't want to I don't want to come off like as ungrateful or entitled or like I'm trying to take advantage of them. I want to own up to my own debts, but like I definitely would have made different financial decisions. If I'm not going to I'm not saying this was the case, but I'm just telling you as a person who's listening on the other side, there was a imbalance of knowledge.

Here you have a grown man who you trust

who is a lawyer, who is giving you a paper to sign and you just go, "Okay." And I sign it.

That Do you see what I'm saying? You're not in an official office, you're not in a space where you're like, "Okay, I'm going to sign for my loan." And you don't even remember doing it. Who knows if he slid that to you one morning while you were eating a waffle, right? Just "Oh, yeah.

Go ahead and sign this for me real quick." Okay, like I don't know how it happened. All I'm seeing is I'm sensing that there is a balance of power here a balance of I'm going to say knowledge and power and it feels I'm not saying he was intending to, but it feels like he may have taken advantage of that whether intentionally or on accident and either way that's [snorts] what I would say is I just feel like I didn't know and I'm asking if there's a way to we've let it go for this long.

can my 529 just be for my education, which is what it's intended to be for?

Okay. And if they decide to not do that, should I Do you

think it would be reasonable to offer like some money or meet in the middle?

Maybe, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Because at the end of the day >> what their contributions were.

What they actually put into the account.

I Did he actually say 114,000 must be repaid? In the last conversation you had?

>> a loan payment schedule.

Based on the final amount that was in that account cuz I don't think this would ever hold up in court that someone would have to repay compound growth. I think all sums repaid could be interpreted as the money that they advanced you essentially to be invested in this account.

Which would be a fraction of that 114.

Yes. Yeah, cuz it's been in there for I don't know, 15 years. >> way, we can all agree this relationship just turned into into a transaction and it's not going to be undone.

Like Thanksgiving is forever going to be different now and so that that part is on him. You can do what you can if you want to keep the relationship alive. You can never repay this and again, he can try to come after you and I don't know what if he has any legal standing to come after you from a dad to daughter, you know, 529 perspective, uh but I would I would honestly, if you want to, consult with your own attorney and say, "Hey, what is actually in this Does this actually hold up? Should I actually be worried?

What is actually my obligation based on what I signed?" I would at least get that clarity. And Sarah, here's another thing. Here's another take for you cuz there is a relationship here.

Forget about the money part. >> little I'm a little hurt by it and blindsided like you said. I kind of My whole life I was like, "Oh, my parents kind of I was really grateful for them setting me up." I'm in a really good financial spot

right now. I was going to get ready to pay off my You need You need to share that. I'm grateful and I didn't understand what I was signing.

And also tell him that you how you fear this could affect your relationship.

Just I think if you lead with your heart on this and how you're really feeling and the gratefulness, the blindsidedness, [music] how you're afraid for the future of the relationship. Keep it less about money.

I think you might have a better shot.

Goodness gracious. What are we doing, parents? This is insane.

>> [music]

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>> Guys, I got to let you in on a little secret. All right, we've been keeping this under wraps [music] for far too long and it's been hard to keep it within. And so, I'm going to let Jade give the people a clue. >> Here's the clue. Come sail away. Come sail away. Come sail away with me.

>> Boo-ya. I was going to do the harmony, but I think that's that's simply it was simply too good. >> for it. >> want I want to let you have the spotlight for once. Listen, guys, we sold out last time. People kept asking and so, we're doing it again. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back.

We got the captain's hat, the lei, which tells me we're going somewhere warm. So, join Dave, myself, Jade Warshaw, all the Ramsey personalities, Dr. John Delony, Ken Coleman, Rachel Cruze, 7 days in the Western Caribbean on the only cruise where we vacation alongside you. A.

And this is just Ramsey fans plus the Ramsey team. >> That's right. >> That's who's on this ship. And let me tell you, the last time we did it, I left just like I was on cloud nine. I was like, "Did that really happen?" >> It was really fun. >> It's a fever dream. So, you can get lunch with Dave, play pickleball with Ken, sing karaoke with Jade.

>> love boat. >> I didn't even make the cut. What do you do with George? I don't know.

We'll play backgammon and drink some espresso, I guess. >> have like a coffee with George. Like a nitro brew. >> to have a coffee hangout.

So, come join us and here's who this is for. This is not for everyone. This may not be for you in this season. This is for people who are on baby step four or higher.

So, if you have you've paid off the consumer debt, you have the emergency fund, you're investing for the future, this is your chance to mark the milestone and celebrate big. When is it happening, Jade? February Oh, gosh.

>> but I was formulating another thought.

I'm sorry. Go ahead and hit Go ahead and do it. March of 2027, which means you have plenty of time to budget for this trip. And you can get the cabin now.

>> If you're like right up on it, this should be your goal. Like I need to pay off I need to get my baby step three in place so that I can sign up. That's what I was thinking of when you asked me.

Yeah. So, if you will be in baby step four by the time the cruise is happening And here's the cool part. >> All you need to do right now is lock in your spot with a $600 deposit. And cabins are limited. This will sell out again. And here's the really cool part.

We want to really get people stoked on this. So, right now, you can save up to $300 this week only when you book by

February 1st. This is not a gimmick. The price will be going up after February 1st. So, book now, get 300 bucks off.

You can lock in your spot with a deposit. I can't wait. March 2027.

>> Wow. It's going to be It's going to be the cruise of the year. Sailing

takes me away.

Gosh, if I could sing like I would be singing the entire time on this show if I had that voice. >> doing a medley. Just sit right back and we'll tell it Gilligan's Island. I can go on the cruise thing forever. So many great cruise songs out there. >> There is. All right, Jade's going to make a playlist for us to listen to to get psyched for the cruise. In the meantime, here's where you go to learn more. There's a great trailer video.

There's all the info you need, all the different cabins you can book. Go to ramsaysolutions.com/events to learn more and lock in your spot or click the link in the show notes. I am I

am stoked. >> What was your favorite thing last time? My favorite moment from the Okay, John Delony and I had this hairbrained idea to do stand-up comedy. Oh, that's right.

I almost forgot. Yeah. >> 11:00 p.m. I went, "Who's even showing up for this at 11:00 p.m.?" Over 800 people. It was standing room only in this venue.

And that was I peaked early. That was the best stand-up of my life. The people were having a great time. John Delony did a killer set. And maybe we'll do it again. We'll see. >> you should. I think you should. It was awesome. How about you? Any favorite memories? >> think what stands out to me is Ken and I doing a dance battle. Oh, wow. I saw the video from that. >> he did I Let me say this. I didn't know that people were still doing the worm. Yeah.

Exactly. And I'm not going to tell I was going to say don't tell which one of us did it, but now you know >> [laughter] >> Oh. So fun. Truly. Truly. Come celebrate with us if you're baby step four or higher on the Live Like No One Else Cruise. ramsaysolutions.com/events.

Click the link in the show notes. Stoked. All right, JD is up next in Denver. JD, thanks for you know, allowing us to have a little fun there. What's your question today?

Of course. I've just been through some pretty tough financial times recently and I just don't even know where to start and how to get back up on my feet.

Man, what's what's the thing on your mind right now when it comes to hey, I don't know what to do next?

Well, the biggest pressing issue is I was in a car wreck and so, it does not sound like insurance is going to be too kind to me cuz I did not have full coverage. And so, just Oh, no. reliable transportation so that I can get back to working. Are you okay physically?

Uh I think so. Like walking away and

everything, but Is there a bill the last thing on my mind.

How recent was this?

Uh that was on Monday. Oh, wow. This just happened.

It hasn't even been a week.

>> I got laid off. So, you know, really good start to my week. >> I'm sorry. That is just >> a JD voodoo doll out there? Is someone like just really that you burned them?

Like this is a lot of bad luck in one week, man. I'm so sorry.

That's what I've been asking everyone. Like hey, did I do something really terrible that I realized in it? No, you didn't. When Murphy hits, he hits hard. And so, it feels like it's all coming at you at once. So, we need income and we need a vehicle.

Yes. In that order. Cuz it's hard to get a vehicle without the income. Do you have anything in savings?

Uh I've got about four or $706.

Okay. And are you single?

Uh yes. Do you have roommates or you living alone?

Well, I was living in my van cuz uh

The one that got totaled? Fairly Yeah, fairly similar thing happened in September and luckily my family was really kind to me and they said so long as I'm staying productive, I can stay at their place rent-free until I get back up on my feet. That was a lifesaver. So, are you still there now?

Yeah. Okay.

Um what type of work were you doing that you got laid off from?

So, I was working industrial and conveyor belt repair for like mines and power plants.

Okay. So, maintenance, repair.

Yeah, like field tech. >> were to look for a job in your area today, what kind of job would you be looking for?

Uh luckily, my experience is pretty vast

so I can go work for a lot of like material reprocessing sites, a lot of other industrial technician jobs. So, I'm not too stressed about finding a new job. >> Good. When they laid me off, they gave me a recommendation letter. It was just due to them doing layoffs and me being lower on the list due to seniority. Did they give you severance?

Uh they did not, but they gave me recommendation letters and a whole list of places that they're in good standing with that if I apply for like I could probably get a job on the spot.

>> Okay, great. So, the really it's just a matter of you doing your due diligence and locking in something as quickly as possible, but you and I both know there's just that lull of I get hired, I do all the training, I finally do work and then I finally get paid, right? The first paycheck is easily 6 weeks away at

the very least at the very least. So, the good news is you're you've got a place to stay, right? You've got a place to lay your head. The thing I'd be wondering about coming into this is because you mentioned your insurance you were under you know, under covered. I want to know is there a bill coming your way for damages?

Far it does not sound like it. It sounds like um they I'm so frustrated about the situation.

They found 50/50 fault even though it was not 50/50 fault. And um

but it sounds like the coverage that I did have should cover the other driver's damages fully. It's just I don't get anything for my damages cuz I only had liability. Okay. >> been in touch with the adjuster?

Uh I tried calling her this morning and we had a phone call, but it was not very productive. Okay. I would try to move this part along so at least we know we have some closure on what the next steps are. If you're going to get a check, if you're going to be in the red, if you're going to just be you know, break even and be flat on this.

But either way, we need transportation to get to that job that you will inevitably get.

No. I wish this had happened Well, I wish this didn't happen in the first place. But I wish this had happened like a year ago because my uh my family got rid of all their old vehicles. They had like five vehicles and traded them for just two new reliable vehicles. And of course, they use those to get to work every day.

Cool. JD, I'm also wondering you seemed like you really were questioning the 50/50 fault. If you really do feel like

I know I wasn't at fault on this, you might contact a lawyer and see what they say. Um I wouldn't spend a lot out of pocket [music] at this point, but just get somebody's opinion. Maybe there's a family member that knows someone that you can run this by. >> [music] >> And in the meantime, it's time for some side hustles. You are signing up for everything you can to get some income in the door to go buy a $2,000, $3,000, $4,000 car on Facebook Marketplace in the next few weeks. Good luck, man.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Michelle is up next in Raleigh, North Carolina. [music] Michelle, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be on the phone with you all. We're excited, too. How can we help?

Um so, really quick background. My husband and I bought our house in 2020.

He deployed last year and we went from

at that point 100,000 down to

I'll round up to 57,000.

And we also saved up 10,000 for a porch.

And then because of his deployment,

we're getting 15, 16,000 dollars back in

taxes, which I know that you all say like, you know, try to make it zero. And last year we

owed, so I think it's just because of the deployment. Mhm. Um

and I my husband and I are trying to decide are we allowed to get a driveway or should we keep paying off the house? So,

you want to take the 16,000 and put it towards paving your driveway?

Yes. Okay. Um no other debt?

No debt, just the mortgage.

>> Do you have a savings aside from the 16K? Do you have like 3 to 6 months of expenses?

Yeah, we have another 15,000 emergency fund. And then we have 10,000 saved up

for the porch. And now we're getting the 16,000, so last night I was like, that's that's almost 40,000 dollars.

Like we could you know, pay a lot on the house. Like if I whittle down the emergency fund

or or we could just have fun. What's going on with the driveway?

>> Uh it's just gravel and we would like concrete. >> Will it cost the whole 16,000 or what will it actually cost?

Um between 10 and 12. We're getting We're still getting quotes. >> Now, this is not like big chunks of money, but it's just things that I like to be in place before you do other fun

things. Or do you guys have life insurance?

Yes. Do you Are you investing 15% into

Yeah. Okay. So, you're doing You've done all the things.

You've literally You literally have extra money. Yes, why not?

>> allowed, Michelle. You've been blessed by the Ramsey gods. Congratulations, you get a new driveway.

That is what I needed. >> You don't need our permission, but I I understand.

Well, that's the thing. It's It's hard to let go of the gazelle intensity that you had and, you know, baby step two, paying off consumer debt. And when you move to four, five, six, we say you move from intensity to intentionality. And so, it's okay if the mortgage doesn't get get paid off in 5 years and instead it's five and a half. You are still doing better than 99.999% of America. And so, the the key is you have a goal and you're aiming toward it.

And so, how much longer will it take to pay off the house at this rate?

3 years. That's awesome. How old will you be then?

Uh I just turned 32, so

35? Do you know how weird that is to be 35 years old with a paid for house?

Amazing.

>> Very nice. You're doing great. There's a point, Michelle, and I I'll be honest, I I struggle with this from time to time, but especially when you're doing a plan that's very intense like the Ramsey plan and the way the first few steps are, you do have to be intentional about flipping the switch in your brain where you're not just building your life, you're actually living your life.

And I have had moments where I'm like, man, I I need to I need to actually enjoy the thing that I've created instead of just like, let me just put this other brick in place, you know? Like there's a point where you do have to stop and go, I'm just on the outside

of this thing creating it. I need to get on the inside and start enjoying it and start living it and start being a part of it and just, you know, have enjoy the

fruit of my labor a little bit. And I think that's where you're at and it's a great place to be. There's a time and a place for the intense and, you know, balls to the wall feeling and then there's a time to put your feet up and go, life is good. We We done good.

>> done. Let's get some concrete down.

Congrats, Michelle. And uh please tell your husband thank you for his sacrifice and service.

I will. Thank you. You guys are awesome.

Living the plan. That's what it looks like right there.

All right, Ryan is up next in Miami.

What's going on, Ryan? How can we help today?

Uh hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Sure. Um I have a quick question. I got a decision I'm trying to make and I can't decide what to do. Um I have some debt

that I want to pay off.

Um but I'm kind of a unique situation, so I I I don't know what to do. Um I have about 97,000 dollars in student loans

uh from law school.

Um shortly after I graduated, I fell

backwards into some money uh by sheer luck.

And I was told, you know, >> What spot did you fall? I just just out of curiosity, I'd like to visit that spot.

Um What do you What do you mean you fell backwards? Like was it an inheritance that you didn't know about?

I got a personal injury settlement of just short of a million dollars. Oh, wow. >> Are you okay? That's that's a serious payout. >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, I'm I'm I'm fine now. I got some

some uh some arthritis in my knee. I got some some injuries that are kind of unique for a young man to have, but, you know, all in all, I'm I'm I'm whole. Wow. I'm

I consider myself a very fortunate person. So, where's the Where's your quandary?

Um well, I didn't know what to do with the money. You see, so um the advice I got was to invest it, don't pay off the debt. And, you know, use the growth uh the return on the investment to pay off the debt over time. And um you know, I I I was in some kind of investment with a financial advisor. It didn't perform well. I didn't like it. I actually pulled the money out of that and ended up buying three single-family homes that I now lease to people.

So, my current plan has been uh to use the rental profit, you know, live off my base pay for my day job, uh use the rental profit to pay down the student loan debt. Um but uh I really hate

making all these payments and it's eating up all the money I make every month. Did you buy the You didn't buy the rentals in cash?

Uh I paid for them outright. Okay.

Yeah. Um three single-family homes outright. >> What are they worth?

Uh let's see. One One's about 300.

One is worth about 250.

Uh the other I would say high twos, low

threes, kind of that 290 range, probably. What do they cash flow totally

every month?

One rents for 1,800. One rents for 1,900. One rents for 2,000 a month.

Um after homeowner's insurance, property taxes, uh maintenance, repairs, um uh it's about 37, 38,000 a year.

Okay. And what's your base pay?

Or how much are you bringing in from your job? From my day job, my base pay is 70,000 a year. Um And before taxes, and then I just got a

a bonus, just like a one once-a-year bonus uh recently to uh 10,000 dollars.

Cool. >> if you like these properties, you paid for them in cash, if they're cash flowing, I would just use your income and the cash to pay down

this 97,000 dollar bill. I mean, if you wanted to sell one of them off, you could. But I have a feel I mean, it's just you, right? There's no family.

No wife? >> single guy. I'm 30 years old. I I live in an apartment.

Um yeah, no no wife and kids. Uh no not even a dog. What do you have in savings?

What's your cash cash position right now? Um let's see. In savings, I have about 93,000 in a savings account and about 20

in a checking account.

>> man. Just You could pay off your debt today. >> Instantly. Um my worry is uh I I would like to get into a primary residence and and own a house that I live in. Um so, that's another hesitation I have. >> two different things. So, >> a time and place for that, but it's once you're completely debt free and you have a fully funded emergency fund. And think about it. Once you don't have these student loans, it's all pure cash flow.

So, you can save up a down payment real quick. >> Mhm. And I might change my advice on that. Now that you throw the fact in that you want to get a personal residence. I might say yeah, take take

the cash that you have, pay off the student loans, and then I might sell one of these properties to free up some cash so you've got a you've re-upped your emergency fund and now you have cash to come in and buy

whatever house you get for you, that needs to be in cash. So maybe you're selling two of these properties to have what it is that you truly want and maybe that leaves you with one rental property cuz what I wouldn't want for you to do is to put a mortgage on your personal residence and now you've got rent people living and paid for houses and you're not even living in a paid for house, right? So maybe you sell off two of these to get what you want.

I'm not mad at that. >> it's all about your timeline and urgency. If you really want your own home, then I think you might go, "Hey, I'm going to sell one of these cuz I don't want to have to save up for the next three or four years." >> [music] >> That'll speed up the process. You have a lot of options. You've done a lot of things well, but you sort of became a landlord by default cuz some dude told you it would be a good idea. And so the

good news is you have options, my friend. >> [music]

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>> Kelsey is in Austin, Texas up next.

Kelsey, welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um so I'm working the baby steps and I just need some advice. I am a real estate agent and so all of my income runs through my business account. I have an S corp and I

like to keep about three months of my payroll in there just like keep my anxiety levels at a lower level um just in case I come up as slow or a deal falls falls through.

Um I'm a single mom with two kids. So I guess I'm just wondering if that amount in my business account would be enough to consider as a starter emergency fund or if I should have that starter emergency fund in a separate account. So I like that you're doing that. The only change that I would make is this is not

an emergency fund. Um so whenever you're a person who's on irregular income, whether you're in real estate or it just anything that has those major opportunities for fluctuation, it is smart to keep a month's worth or you know, two months worth, whatever you feel like you absolutely need aside.

Mhm. Yeah, just in case something happens, a deal falls through or it gets pushed later and that way you can, you know, continue to live your life, but that's not your emergency fund because

that your emergency fund is there for the things that emergency funds are there for. Something that's completely unforeseen, something that's completely necessary, and something that can can is completely urgent, right? That's your roof. Right. You know, your car falls apart, that kind of thing. This is just part of your budget. This is just part of In many ways, it's just an extended cushion for you letting your budget

adjust to irregular income. So I would not to clarify, you can have this money here. Maybe you take half of it and you have, you know, a month and a half. I only you know how much your income truly fluctuates and what you actually need there, but maybe there's some of that that could also go towards building a dedicated emergency fund.

Okay, yeah, I could definitely at least start the $1,000 just to have that there and then put some towards that, especially once I have things like under contract, it feels a little safer, but How much debt do you have?

I have $46,000.

Yeah. What kind of debt is that?

So $22,000 from just putting my head in the sand after divorce.

And then $13,500 on a car and then my AC went out over

like Thanksgiving so I had to put that one on a loan so it's $10,000 on that.

Ouch. Okay. So do you have a business checking and a business savings account separate from your personal?

I have like I run the profit first model in my business account so I have a couple of accounts in there. So I stash a little bit away every month or every closing for profit and then I have a personal checking. Okay, good. So they are separate.

Yes. >> You're not doing this all from one bank account. No. Yeah, I finally got all that in order a couple years ago. And how much do you have in across your personal checking and savings that's not tied to your business?

Oh, sorry. Can you repeat that?

>> do you have across checking and saving in your personal life?

Oh, I am I could probably have Well, I would have $1,000 in savings and then personal is just I would say I pay myself every month so I pay about $6,000 in payroll every month. So the good news is once you start paying down So if you

do $6,000 in payroll, what do you have 18 stashed aside? Is that what you have in your business?

I like to stash 20 just because like with the payroll, there's taxes associated with it so it it works out to be about three months. Uh do you really feel like you need three? I feel like you could get I mean, only you know. I'm not trying to push you because I know that you this is your sole thing, but if you don't need three, I would knock it down a bit.

And then the other thing is the good news is once you start paying off this debt, the amount that that needs to be cuz that should be a bare bones budget, not like your bells and whistles budget. Um you'll be able to knock that down because once you pay off the 10 10K, that's a payment you don't need to make anymore out of your budgeted money. Once you pay off the car, that's a payment you won't need to make out of your budgeted money.

Does that make sense?

And that can then also go towards your debt. >> payments my debt payments are like 600 a month and then I think it's going to go up in June as long as I mean, I'm going to try and get the smallest credit card knocked out before, you know, before June. But then in June, the AC loan like it was 0% for the first few months and then it'll be 10% so it's going to go up a little bit.

>> your current plan to pay off all the debt? What's the timeline?

And how much can you throw at it a month?

I am throwing at it as much as I possibly can. I'm doing extra side hustles on the nights that I don't have the kids and like just trying to throw everything at it. I just have gotten a little I mean, this is my first month actually doing a budget and every dollar and like I thought I had it all planned out and then, you know, things happened that I didn't account for and so I was like, "Oh man, I kind of missed the mark this first month." Well, it takes it takes a couple of months. I mean, just to be honest, it takes three months and some to to really lock in.

The first month is experimental, truly. And then after that, you kind of start learning your behavior and you should be locked in in the next 90 60 to 90 days for sure. I I would have a game plan to go, "Hey, my goal is to put $2,000 a month toward the debt, minimums plus extra. That gets me out of debt in 23 months." Once you start doing that kind of math, that shows me that you're serious about getting out of debt cuz now you kind of know the benchmark.

matter what happens, this is what we're going to do." And then we'll shift everything else around it.

The nice thing about real estate is if I have like, you know, an extra closing, it can knock out a really big chunk of that. >> Yeah. When's your next commission check?

Do you know?

My next commission check, is that what you said? Yeah, when is that coming in? >> Uh Tuesday. Woohoo. How much is that going to be? Yeah.

Um it'll be $6,000. Okay.

>> Okay, good. So you have your month covered and Mhm. Okay, good. I I like

this. Okay, so it sounds like you've got it set up like you've got the the system set up. It's just now letting it start to work for you. Yeah. Hopefully you can start making progress soon and every dollar will definitely help. Jenny is in Miami up next. Jenny, what's going on?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um so I I'm I'm a little nervous.

My question is me and and my husband, we have about $500,000

saved. We've been saving for a home for quite some time. The issue is that we don't have much in retirement. I'm 40, he's 45. So I'm like

really debating here if we should really put as much toward a home or we should allocate some towards more towards a retirement account.

So that's kind of eating at me cuz we haven't bought yet. We we're looking at the moment, but that kind of worrying me it doesn't hit much, but me it does.

>> Are you guys investing at all right now?

Um honest honestly, no. Like I I have

because I I work for a hospital, so um I believe the 403b. So, there is money in there without me having put anything in there as of yet. >> Um, 18 18,000, I believe, or 19. For me,

and I think on his is maybe 3,000. He just started contributing to that.

>> Okay. What do you guys make a year?

Uh, well, this last year uh gross was

both of us at a little time was about on 148 uh thousand. Awesome. Okay, and what's this house going to cost?

We're trying to stick to 600, but it is

Miami. So, um it's it's definitely difficult, but we're trying to stick with that um even if it has to be some repairs or anything like that. So, we also have to consider those things as well.

>> Sure. And you're renting right now. What's your What's your rent cost?

>> Uh, 1,400. Okay. We've been lucky. Yeah, that's amazing with your income. That's fantastic. And um I'm thinking through this. You have 500,000 to put down. Does that include your emergency fund? Do you have a separate emergency fund from this 500?

>> everything. That's everything across the board. We wouldn't put all that in We We would definitely leave our emergency fund. We have it at 40 would be left for at minimum for the emergency fund.

>> we put 460 down on a $600,000 home, for

example, or $650,000. So, you have a 150 to $200,000 mortgage, which is very reasonable for Miami. And the good news is you're going to be able to pay that off fast. So, here's the Here's the deal with the should I put it toward retirement or not. I would suggest you guys start investing 15% of your $150,000 income today.

Okay. And then put as much down on that house as you can. And here's the simple reason. It reduces the amount of mortgage you need, which in turn reduces the mortgage payment, which then frees up way more money to pay down the house early, to live your life in the meantime.

And so, it's a good middle ground play right now because you guys are 40 and 45. And so, my guess is you end up paying this house off in the next 7 years max. Mhm. And the good news Yeah, that's it.

Yeah. If you keep doing what George said, as you're investing 15%.

That's calculator numbers. That's not an opinion. And so, that's the truth. The faster you get the house paid off, then you can max out investing. You'll be making more by then. I have no fear that you guys are going to be just fine if you become completely debt free, [music] and then you invest all of that margin you create.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel, joined by Ramsey personality Jade Warshaw. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Sarah is in Memphis up next. Sarah, welcome to the show.

Hello. Hey. How can Jade and I help?

Hi. Um, my question is how should I be investing to build wealth, um but also to leave an abusive an emotionally abusive relationship? Oh, gosh. How long has this been going on?

This relationship has lasted going on 4 years. Are you safe right now?

Yeah, absolutely. It's no It's no physical abuse or anything like that, but it's just too toxic for me to stay.

I feel like I'm not evolving. >> guys living together?

Yes. Okay.

Okay. So, what's your timeline?

Um, on what? On exiting the premises.

Um, it's not like I would say I want to leave with definitely within the next like 6 months, 6 to 8 months.

Okay. Tell me what you think Tell me what's pre- precluding you from going now because when you say how can I build wealth, wealth is different than I need first and last month's rent to be able to get into my own apartment. >> Wealth is like a 10-20-year journey. And so, right now it's hey, what is the next step I need to take? What is the minimum amount I need to leave this situation?

We'll get to wealth later.

>> My dilemma right now is I have I I did have roughly like $10,000 saved. I recently paid off my car and got rid of absolutely all my debt.

I'm waiting on my title in the mail. I currently have about $8,000 left in my

account. Okay. Um, the reason I did it My lease was up The reason I moved in with him is because I was My income with at my job is quite low. I'm only making $17 an hour. So, I was a little bit worried about getting an apartment um just due to the requirements. >> Okay. Um, and so I'm trying to figure out if I should be like investing with the $8,000, like maybe buying a quadplex

and living in one. >> Okay.

Like that's what I'm trying to figure out. Let me say this back to you. Let me make say this back to you and make sure I've got it. So, you've got zero debt at this point. You've got $8,000 cash. $17

per hour. What's that equate to a month?

What do you bring in after taxes every month? Um, I think around like like $2,300.

Okay. So, no to your thing about

investing. Right now, cash is your friend. You need liquid money because you're trying to get a place. Um

I would And the $17 per hour, are you working 40 hours a week or are you part-time? How many hours do you do?

Um, yeah, I work a little under 40, maybe like 36 hours. Okay. And Okay.

What kind of work are you doing?

Um, medical assistant. Okay. So, if Are

you wanting to stay in that field?

No, I I'm currently looking for a job to expand my income right now to hopefully like build my savings account.

>> Well, yeah, I'm I'm saying are there, you know, the next step rung on the ladder in the medical world from assistant to XYZ? Can you move up in the

field and place that you're in right now? Or is this it?

No. I think that's it. This is it. I'm trying. Do you know what You know, I think a lot of your skills would transfer in the medical field to other assistant work cuz you could be an executive assistant and go make 70, 80 grand.

Okay. >> So, I don't want you to just limit yourself going well, this is the only thing I can do. You've got to think about what skills can transfer. And I'll I'm going to give you Our friend Ken Coleman has a great tool and resource uh called Find the Work You're Wired to Do, and it comes with a Get Clear career assessment, and that will actually lay it all out for you. And you so, that will help you immensely. And then on top of that, do you have any a community right now? Friends, family nearby?

No, that's the problem. Um, I don't I don't have anyone to like you know, stay at their house for a set amount of time or help me out in this situation. So, this kind of like this was kind of my only option. Well, I'm wondering Can you get a roommate? >> That's what I'd say. I'd be looking at rent in your area and what you can and

think about it through the lens of a roommate. It's like, okay, who can I split this with? Because I think if you can get a roommate and and I'm not saying you live like that forever, but this is just for you to get out of a toxic environment to your to your own point. And to get someplace where it's a split cost. Um that's what I'd be looking for. That's the research I'd do tonight. Have you done that? Any research on apartments?

>> I've already I've already tried that option. Yes, I have been looking for apartments. Honestly, the the the roommate situation is probably is unrealistic in my case. I don't have anybody. I was looking at renting a room like the Airbnb or something like that.

>> much does that cost?

Um, I haven't gotten prices yet. I'm I was thinking about doing that as of today. That's probably like I maybe I should call first. >> I think that's a good That's a good starting point. Uh, see see what it'll cost you. I mean, cheap The cheaper, the better. Cheap and safe are the two things that you're looking for. And it's just you, right?

Yes. >> Okay. I know you don't have people close to you in your life, but I would jump on some local Facebook groups, and you can see their photo, their name, and say, "Hey, can we meet at this coffee shop?" And see if this is a good fit. So, I know it's a scary step, but it's a much safer step than than the situation you're in right now.

And the truth is you can't afford an apartment on your own. Mhm. Right.

But right now, 2,300 bucks, you can survive if you can split a two-bedroom at 6, 7, 800 bucks. Yeah. Right. And so,

I that would be my next step is roommate, followed by income. And do you have a separate bank account, separate from your partner?

Um, absolutely. Yeah. Okay, good. And they don't have access to it. They don't know your passwords. Do they Do you have like shared location services on on your phone? >> No. No, I'm pretty good. I'm pretty clear to exit if I can figure out what I can afford, but I just wanted clarity on if I should be focusing on investing and that should be my way to move out.

>> not invest a dime. So, in the steps you'd go, "Hey, I don't have any debt. Now I need a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses and then I can begin investing." But right now we need some stability and a foundation.

So, you're you're close. If you can get your income up and get in a safe situation with where you're staying and get the emergency fund, now we're cooking with gas. Now we have the recipe to build wealth cuz right now one emergency could tank you and now you have no money to build wealth with.

Okay. I appreciate that. You're You're doing all the right things. I would not wait 6 months, Sarah. I would be gone by this weekend. >> Yeah, once you find a Airbnb or once you find a roommate, in many ways I think your chances are better.

Um well, they're both the same thing. If you rent a room on an Airbnb, you have a roommate and this is somebody that you don't really know very well and you're up in their place, but the good the good news is you can if it doesn't work out, you could easily move to someplace else versus a roommate I guess you'd be locked in lease-wise. So, I kind of see what you're doing there.

Um I think for you the ultimate thing is the price on it because usually in order to make progress, we don't want rent to go over, you know, 25 30% of our of of our take-home pay. For you that's a very low number at 2300 a month. So, >> Talking like 600 bucks. Yeah, so you're Yeah, 600 700 bucks range. Luckily, you have no debt. Way to go on that. But um that's what I'd be looking for if at all possible.

Okay. Okay, got you. I understand. Thank you. You bet. >> You're welcome. I'm wishing you the best getting out of this situation. >> Mhm. Mhm. Jade, when it comes to abusive situations, it's so easy to tell yourself, "Well, it's not that bad and I

can just wait another 6 months. I'll be okay." You never know when people are going to shift into another gear. That's my thing. >> Yes. You need to get out and she's taking all the right steps on the financial side.

[music] She's got no debt. She has separate accounts from from this partner. She's got some money in the bank. Now is the time to go. Don't have some random arbitrary number. Once I have $12,000, then I'll feel comfortable. Mhm. That's you justifying why you're going to stay in the situation. You need to be [music] out.

And if you need to call a hotline, you need to get into a women's shelter, you do whatever you need to do to get [music] out of that toxic situation, Sarah. We're rooting for you.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Sarah is in Boise up next. Sarah, what's going on?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure.

>> Um So, I'm in crisis mode and my question

is, how do I manage my husband's business since he had a stroke about a month ago?

Oh my goodness.

What What is his current health?

Um physically, he's doing very well. Um

it was a large stroke and somehow physically he's good, but the area of his brain that was most affected affects his reading, writing, understanding of spoken language, and ability to speak accurately. Sarah, I'm so sorry. >> So, he's not available to consult with.

Yeah, I mean your life flipped upside down overnight.

Yeah. Wow.

So, what is the the pressing thing that like I got to figure this out tomorrow?

He is a business owner and um he has one

employee. He does my husband does pretty much everything for the business and his employee is not able to take over.

Um [clears throat] What kind of business is it? >> Essentially um it is a pilot school.

Okay. Is there a physical location? Like give me a picture of all the things tied to this business.

>> [snorts] >> So, he has several airplanes that are housed at a local airport

and he pays leases to have slots for those airplanes in hangars and and so he pays those leases

by check every month.

He has an employee um who is not getting paid because my husband's not here to run payroll.

Um Do you have any knowledge of all of that?

Is this something you could even step even if you wanted to, you had the capability? Is this something you could go, "All right, I can figure this out.

I can pay the bills. I can handle payroll." >> who to con- I know enough of who to contact to figure out what's due.

My problem is we don't have power of attorney or anything set up, so I don't have access to his business finances.

Mhm. What I do have is a wad of cash

that he keeps around and I can pay the leases by cash

until he gets out of Till you can do it through the business and so >> home and can do it through the business.

Yes. >> Wow, so he's still in the hospital?

Yes, and he'll be there for the next 1 to 3 months. So, I just need to keep it going for a few months until we see where things are going to land and he

has enough communication ability you know, he's been trying to communicate to me about his work.

Um But there's a lot of guessing what he's trying to say. He can't get into specifics.

Um so, I'm just trying to keep things going as he is recovering and hoping that we'll be able to talk about it in a few months. I just don't want everything to fall down. Yeah, is this your only source of income?

No, I make a good income and I can cover

our personal expenses. Good.

How much are you making?

>> 150,000.

Okay. Okay, so the biggest concern is there could be leases piling up that are past due and you wouldn't know you to rece- you wouldn't be receiving them cuz they might be in his email or something that's password protected, right? Correct. Um Okay and >> get a bill in the mail from a mechanic.

Okay. And so I could just call them, but

I can't pay it out of the business. I can either pay it by cash or out of our personal accounts. Is Do you guys have any money saved, you guys?

Aside from the business. >> We have about $2,000 left. I've used 3,000 of it on business expenses so far.

Okay. So, yeah, I would kind of start

This is very tough. You're not lying that this is this is a tough situation.

I would start by compiling as many folks as you can. I would sit down with the employee and I'd be like, "What do you know? Tell me anything you know. If there's any numbers for anybody that you have, please give them to me." And I would just start trying to You're almost a detective on this trying to figure out the mechanic. I'd contact them and say, "Do you know of any Tell me what you know." And just derive as much as you can. Um cuz you might

find Yeah, I know you said there's no power of attorney, but you might find out that maybe he was working with somebody that was just kind of helping him with some of the accounting or some of the numbers. Um Okay. And then the

next thing I'd be talking with the doctors and saying, "What's the timeline for us to understand his recovery? What can we expect in the next couple weeks regarding speech?

Those sorts of things." Um Yeah, you Do you have an estate planning attorney?

No. Okay, I would contact one today Mhm.

and say, "Hey, what are my options here?" Cuz one option if he can't understand or communicate decisions right now, then you likely need to go to court to request guardianship or a conservatorship.

And so the judge would have to grant you legal authority. >> And if he is able to, um you might have a shot here to get that power of attorney. So, the estate planning attorney can help with that step and that's a big step. That unlocks a whole lot for you to be able to manage and run this business and just keep it stable.

Uh as you know, just get the bills paid.

Is the employee Are they aware that hey, you you're not going to get a paycheck.

There's no money coming in to pay you with. Yes. Yes, I've let him know that I

don't have access to that and he said

that he will do everything that he can and continue working and that if he reaches a financial point that he can't continue, then he'll just get a second job. Okay. And keep doing his part of the business and logging his hours cuz he knows that we will make good on it.

I'd also look into since your husband's been paying him, if you know even what bank your husband's using, if you can get with an attorney and say, let's go to the bank, let them know what's going on, so we can get access into this account. I think there's those things that I would do to just I mean, obviously you're in a situation where this person cannot um verbalize what they need. So, working with a lawyer to get access is going to be what you're going to need to do. Are you a joint owner on anything?

>> that cash? If Okay, so let's pretend let's play that out. Let's pretend you get with a lawyer, you go down to the bank, they're like, oh, okay, we see what's happened.

Yes, you're obviously legally married, whatever whatever, you get into the accounts. Then I'd work with Then I'd be hiring somebody to say, help me understand what we have here. Is there money? Can you look back? Can we now look at a past tax return to find out kind of what the situation is with the business? Then from there you can decide

Is this something I can keep up? Is this something we maybe need to sell? By then you've heard from the doctors about recovery. So, there's part of this that's kind of like a puzzle that has to come together for you to decide, is this going to be something that you're going to keep or is this something that needs to be sold and maybe in the distant future he can reopen this again based on his knowledge, but not based on the previous business.

Okay. Yeah, man, I'm sorry that this is happening. This is This is really >> You got You got a new full-time job of just trying to track all these things down and it's not a fun thing to deal with. It's not something anyone could even plan for, Sarah. So, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I'm glad that you at least have an awesome income on your own and can cover all the bills. Do you have any margin each month just on your income alone?

Um I We are still paying off our personal

debts, so all of our margin is going into that. How much debt do you have between personal, the business, everything?

About I Well, I don't know about the business debts. I don't I don't know.

I don't think that there's any business debt, but as far as personal debt, it's There's a car loan for 34,000. Okay. And a credit card for 2,000. I would look into selling that vehicle if you can, you know, even make what it's what's worth. You know, if you can get 34 for it. Do you have another vehicle?

Uh yes, but it needs work. How much work? I don't know. I don't know anything about mechanics. Okay. But I'm just wondering if you can sell that >> my husband told me it was unsafe to drive. Okay.

Well, I would do some homework. You can jump on Kelley Blue Book website and find the private party value for that car. You'll just type in the VIN number for the vehicle and answer a few things.

It'll tell you what the car is worth.

And if you can sell that, you free up that car payment. So, what is that car payment every month?

500. So, you just get $500 of breathing room >> [music] >> and now we can if the repair is $1,000, great. Let's go ahead and do that. That is well worth it to free up $500 a month forever.

And so, there's all these pieces. You have a lot of variables that are in your control and that's all you can do right now is focus on what you can control and bring [music] in all the community you can find, bring in all the professionals and experts at your disposal to help you through this. You do not have to do this alone.

Thanks for the call, Sarah.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, just because it's 2026 now, doesn't mean 2025's ideas all go away. Some things

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>> [music]

>> Up next, we've [music] got Jennifer in Memphis. Jennifer, welcome to the show.

Hi. Thanks for having me. Absolutely.

What's your question today?

My question is how best do I approach a

conversation with my husband who recently purchased a home as an investment without telling me.

Had no knowledge, didn't know it was a plan. Um It came up fast, I guess, and called me after he did it. And my question around

that is how best to approach that conversation. Do I approach it from a financial perspective of understanding

uh can we do this or more so in the fact

of the the personal side.

Um I'm struggling being a a numbers person focusing on the financials rather than the emotional side. So, that that's my question on how best to approach that.

Oh, when did this happen?

Yesterday. Oh.

Listen, let me just >> purchase to a new level. This is wild. I applaud you. The fact that you had enough self-control to be like, I'm not going to even mention this. I You like you've held this to a radio conversation I applaud you because I would have been like, what?

Um So, good job. That's great.

>> How did this all come about as far as him telling you? Like what what happened here? Well, so long story short, he is a He This is his goal. He wants He's good at it. The man has a 2% error rate in life, which frustrates me.

Um but he >> a 100% error rate with his marriage.

Yeah, well. How mad are you?

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much does this just like hack you off?

You know, it's surprising to normally it would like I'd I'd lose it. Um the fury is not my normal fury. So, I'm trying to like listen and go, is this is this an opportunity to have a discussion cuz we do struggle with his impulse control um because he is a very He's a very smart person. The fact that you're not shocked by this tells me there's been a pattern of this your whole marriage.

This is the the biggest. Usually I'm involved, but we've done some pretty high-stakes investments that he he researched. He's smart. He's So, he's not impulsive, I wouldn't say. He Hold on. You're He has a high risk threshold and you've trusted him. >> He bought a house without telling you on a whim.

Well, it wasn't a whim. So, come to find out he's known about this. He's researched it. It was an auction.

Okay. How much? >> And It's $750,000.

Oh, man. >> Was it cash?

No. Um we we have very good net worth. What is

it?

My net worth? Yeah.

About two to 2.1 million. Is it all real

estate or is some of that Can you tell us what that is?

Yeah, majority real estate. We have very very good equity in our home.

Um And then uh we have a investment in some land that's in high uh very nice area. So, it's it's worth quite a bit. Um and then we've got um some other assets. So, our cars are paid off. >> Okay, good. Yeah, what what debt do you guys have?

Uh So, we So, when I say they're paid off, we do have a loan on one of them, so I shouldn't say that. We do have a loan on one of them, but it's going to be paid off here soon.

Um so, total debt is $790,000.

And that's including this 690,000.

Well, now it's double that cuz there's a $750,000 mortgage.

>> include the new one?

No. What's the mortgage on that?

The new one? Well, so we haven't closed on a loan yet.

But it was 750, right?

Yes. Okay.

Okay. So, the first question you asked was do I approach this from basically the dollars and cents side or the emotional relational side? I would go

the dollars and cents side is kind of like goes without saying, I think. I would go first for the emotional relational side since honestly, that's the most important problem at hand is

if if you're going to do these purchase, I understand what our history has been.

I am not The point is not to insult intelligence here. The point is to say that I'm part of this marriage, and when we make decisions like this and I'm not included, I feel like I'm not a verse a voice that matters. That's what you're telling me is my voice doesn't matter, [clears throat] and I need to know is that how you actually feel because that's the way you're acting. So, I would make make him understand that what what you're feeling is not

consistent what you think his intention towards you is.

Does that make sense? And that that's not going to work for you going forward.

So, I would get pretty strong on this because to my In my mind, and I'm not trying to project onto you, but in my mind if you can call me right after the deal, you could have called me right before the deal. Right? It's the same amount of time. Nobody, you know, and I understand it wasn't an auction.

>> Yeah, but he wouldn't get it.

Cuz he he did he texted me actually.

That's how he told me. Um I think he legitimately didn't think he'd get it. But um But this is not a Pokémon card on eBay that I bid on and went, "Oh my gosh, babe, I won." >> But the fact that he was even going to an auction means I have the intent to purchase something, and once the auction starts, here's the truth. Once the auction starts, sure, you could be like bidding and be like, "I don't have time to text, I'm bidding." But the When you knew, I think I'm going to go to an auction today, that's the time you email and go, "I'm thinking about going to an auction today.

Here's the property I'm thinking about bidding on. If we get it, here's the extent that I'm willing to bid to. What do you think about that?" Right? That's a conversation that should have had.

He knows that. Go ahead and remind him of it.

think, Jennifer, for you, you're going to have to decide how serious you're going to be about this because to George's point, seems like there's been a bit of a pattern. And it's not to say that he's not a smart guy or doesn't hasn't had great luck or great um

um outcomes with his knowledge. I'm not saying that, but it's not put you in a place of mattering, and you do matter, and that's the part that needs to be figured out here. Now we can go back, once that's deciphered, now we can go back and talk about, okay, keeping this house, what's it going to turn into, all that stuff, but first and foremost, how much do you matter in this relationship when it comes to our money?

I think that's where we struggled our whole lives is I'm risk averse, and he's obviously risk taker, and

we've always struggled with the fact that he he does do his research. He does He's willing to >> That's not But, Jennifer, that's not the problem. You being risk averse and hit That's not the problem. That's just you guys having personalities. The problem is your vote weighing and mattering when

the decision when it comes time for the rubber to meet the road in a decision.

That's the piece. So, don't Your your

challenge is, because I can Like I said, you're very very patient, but your challenge is going to be when you have this conversation not to get bogged down in those minutia, right? Cuz that doesn't matter. Doesn't matter how smart he is, it doesn't matter how risk averse you are. None of that matters. What matters is, do I matter?

Does my opinion matter? Because so far it has not, and that is not okay with me going forward. And if this continues to go forward, here's what that's going to look like on my end. That's what you have to decide, and that's a firm conversation.

Mhm. So, that's what That's That's my advice to you. Um and again, I can't say it enough, has nothing to do with smarts or not smarts.

I don't care if he won the lottery.

This is still financial infidelity.

I mean, think about if this was a person. You went, "Well, he didn't cheat on me impulsively. He's been talking to this girl for months." That doesn't make it better, does it?

No. And so, if he knew he was looking at this house, he should have said, "Hey, you know, I've been looking at this property. I think it could be a really great investment. Here's what I'm thinking." You guys aren't communicating at all when it comes to money. I mean, my wife and I don't make purchases over $500 without talking about it first, let alone 750,000.

Mhm.

Yeah, and I don't I don't make anything without asking.

Um I think again, this is the first time he's done it without telling me. It's always been he's brought it to me, and then I tell him no or >> Which is why this is Which is why you got to put the line in the sand on this because what you don't want is for this to be seen as, "Oh, that wasn't that bad. I could maybe do this again." This is you putting your stake in putting your line in the sand. Hey, do you earn Are you Are you a contributor of money in the house?

Okay.

I think that's the hard part. We have substantial annual income.

And he, you know, he he uses the debt

obviously to build wealth, and he has he's built >> Fine. Fine. Fine. Fine. You Fine, but you need to make sure he understands, and you need to understand, too, this is not a money conversation. Has zero to do with prior success. You cannot let the conversation go in that direction. It's about respect [music] on your name.

That's it.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Well, Jade, we just took a call where the husband bought a house without telling his >> [music] >> wife. >> Unreal. Pretty wild. And uh you know, buying or selling your home is a big deal. It's the biggest financial decision you'll ever make. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what is actually happening with the housing market. So, we are here to make the latest trends easy to understand. We've seen mortgage rates dip, which is nice.

We 30-year for the first time in a while under 6%.

>> And 15 years been dipping down along with it, which is nice. So, if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right, let's get to the phones. John joins us in Portland up next. John, welcome to the show.

Good afternoon, gentlemen, and Miss Jade

Jade there. Thanks for including me in that. I was concerned.

>> [laughter] >> I was happy to be called gentlemen. >> you're a hoot on the show. I enjoy listening to you guys almost every day.

Oh, thank you.

How can we help?

So, um I'm looking to get engaged with

this young lady that I've been dating about 9 months, and um I'm just getting

into figuring out her financial situation, and it's really a freaking mess to be a understatement here.

Oh, boy. >> Um So, she's co-living with um her mother,

her sister that is married, her other sister that is married, um and of course herself, and they've all co-signed uh signatures and such and incomes to be able to afford and purchase a home together. Oh, boy. Six

of them? And so, they're all on the deed, they're all on the on the mortgage. Right. They're all in this mortgage, and then there's a food truck business that they run as a family business, and there's other incomes, and then there's private and business credit cards all

mixed together, and my girlfriend's

um credit score is tied to all of these as a co-signer, and two auto loans that she's also tied to. Oh, boy. Okay. I'm

going, "Okay, so if in six you know, 6

months if I was hoping for a spring or summer wedding here, that like I cannot

join finances with over $100,000 of small debts and a house that I have zero

equity or input in, and I don't think she has equity in any of those things. She's been coached into signing as a co-signer

all of those things, but does not have equity in any of those things." Uh How much of this does she understand? It sounds like you are well-versed in the world of finance, and I'm worried she just is like, "Oh, I didn't understand all this. I just signed cuz it was family, and I thought it'd all work out." I I don't know if she understood the weight of when you sign a co-sign a loan

like that, how much are you on the line for. I don't think she really understood that. >> understand that if they all default, that it all reflects on her, and that she could be the one that's responsible for all of it.

Correct. So, there's another curveball here. One of the sisters has cancer, and so her and her husband aren't really working. And so, they're kind of like soaking up some out of the household. They kind of pool their money together in the house.

And um her mother wants to go back to Mexico.

So, she's Mexican, but her You don't I don't think debt companies can um chase you and collectors can chase you once you're on the other side of the border, kind of an idea from my understanding. So, her mother is, you know, obviously participating created some of this debt.

>> Mhm. And I think that they're all going, "Oh, well, now she's found this nice guy, in other words, me.

Okay.

Um let's not go What do I do with this?

I I Here Let's Let me go back to what I think is the most important things first cuz there's a lot here. I'll try to tackle some of them. I know George will tackle some of them. So, first things first is the conversation where you're kind of getting her to understand your

um fears around this. And then, and only

then, if she's in a space to move forward, here's here's what I would say is the ultimate goal. The goal is to find out first, hey, this mortgage situation, who can buy you out? Like, who can buy out your portion so that you can get your piece, and can we get folks

to refi and get you out of this?

Cuz that's the only way is to refi this

mortgage so she's not on it. So, that must happen. >> Right. It must happen. Same thing with these auto loans.

This is it's just so serious. So, that conversation of her understanding that that's why I say that's like paramount to this entire thing working because after that, she's going to have to have some serious conversations of, I need to refi the mortgage, I need to refi these auto loans, and I need to

find out how to get my name off of these credit cards because if I were in your shoes, I don't think I would move forward with marrying her until that's done because you are going to get This is a horrible way to start off your marriage. Period. It's just going to cause problems. >> Is she willing to essentially be exiled by her family?

Uh you know >> Does she want out of this, or is she like, no, everything's great. I I like everything that we're doing right now.

She she honestly has con- confided me that she's very stressed about the financial situation because she's I I explained to her a lot more of the depth of like, you don't have equity to play with as a bargaining chip.

>> It's not even about equity. >> You're it's not even about the equity. I think that that's burying the lead a little bit. The biggest The thing that you guys have to be most concerned about is the risk on her life when these people stop

being interested in paying, especially because there's so many involved, it's very easy for Bob to go, you know what, I'm not working in the season. It's okay, five other people are >> mom goes to Mexico, and goes, good luck, guys. Now what? Now she's on the hook for everything, and collectors are coming after her and suing her. And that's what she's up against right now. >> the thing you need to be laser beam focused on is the risk. Forget equity,

forget any of that other stuff. It is risk, risk, risk on her head right now.

And so, to to to start to reduce some of that risk, I looked it was like, yo, you guys need to sell these cars cuz one of their their cheapest car, they are at 18% interest rate on it. And so, I was like, you guys cannot be paying $750 a month on a 2018 Nissan Pathfinder.

>> Yes, you're right. They need to sell it. >> under water. They're under water by 5K on that one. They got offered eight for it. I was like, sell it, but they don't have any money to pay off the loan so the dealership will pay for it.

>> whoever's Whoever it is that's driving the car needs to see if they can get a

loan for the difference. And then you need to be selling it private party. The dealership's always going to give you a super lowball offer.

Correct. Yeah, they have to have their margins. >> might actually be able to sell it for what they owe on it if they sold it private party instead of going to the dealership. The people who screwed them over to begin with. >> I think I think they owe just about even with KBB on the vehicle. Um Do they need

it to get from A to B?

No, so I'm a mechanic for a living. I was like, look, I'll find you a Toyota Camry that needs a water pump and a timing belt for 1,500 bucks, put $80 of parts in it and ship it, and you guys can have reliable reliable transportation in a week.

>> it the sister's?

No, this is what my girlfriend drives, and her mother, and whoever else needs the car. So, okay, so it's your For all intents and purposes, it's your girlfriend's car. Correct. So, what you need to do is

you need to go with your girlfriend and say, hey, we're getting a loan once we find out KBB if there's a difference, we're getting a loan for the difference, and then we're going to sell this, and you're going to get your mom and your sister to agree to that immediately. Is that the case for both cars, by the way?

Yeah, so there's another There's a 2024 Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie that they have.

They're paying about a thousand dollars a month for on the payment, and they owe 38 five on it, and it's They got a praise the dealership last week for 34.

>> And who's the main driver?

Um that's one of the one her brother-in-law drives that mostly. And so, and he's currently not working, so I don't know how he gets the privilege to be driving the vehicle. >> in to cover all of these payments?

Correct. They kind of just pull all their money in a pot and pay bills out of that, and some months they have enough for all the stuff. Okay. Okay.

I'm going to be I'm going to be straight up with you. >> codependence happening here. >> Well, well, let >> Yes, yes, but I think what you more so

Like, we can look at it on the outside and say toxic codependency, but it sounds like it's a it could be a cultural thing of this is just how we

survive, and this is what we're used to.

Your work is cut out for you, and I don't know if you're going to be able to win this battle, my friend. This is deep, deep, deep, deep, deep.

>> going to be a part-time job for you just to help her. She's going to need to pull her credit report and go line by line and go, how do we get you off of this? How do we get [music] you off of this? Explore all the options, and then she's going to have to fight with the family and be excommunicated >> [music] >> for ditching them in their time of need.

>> And I don't know if you want to be the guy who's responsible for that.

>> [snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel, joined by Jade Warshaw.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Jake joins us next in Madison, Wisconsin. Jake, welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for having me. Absolutely.

What's going on?

So, I am in the process of building myself a house, um and looking for some guidance on if I should take the 15-year mortgage option where the payment is about 31%

of my monthly pay, or should I take some of my 6-month

um emergency fund and try to get that down to like 29%, or is there some other route I should try to pursue?

Cool. What's the house going to cost?

Uh total what we're tracking at right now is about 380,000 all said and done. Okay. And how much are you going to put down?

So, I've already put about 180,000 down of my own money to get the project started before I even went to the bank.

How much more do you need to get it percentage-wise to where you want it to be?

Uh I believe it's close to 20,000,

which I do have. Uh that would just be most of, like I said, a 6-month It would be most of it. What would it take your emergency fund down to as far as months?

Uh about two. Okay.

The most I would personally be comfortable with is 3 months. If you're like, hey, I'm going to take 3 months of the fund out, leaving 3 months in there, and then I'll restock it once we move in, you're going to be okay. And so, that's not on fire. And if it's 29%, nothing is on fire cuz the truth is

your income will go up over time.

Sure. >> Right? And so, that percentage will go down.

Yep. The other thing is, when we talk about the 25% parameter, which for everyone listening, we tell people, hey, if you're going to buy a house, do it once you're out of debt with an emergency fund, you've got a solid down payment, and make sure that you get a 15-year fixed-rate conventional loan where the payment is no more than a quarter of your take-home pay. But when we say that, you got to remember this is after tax, but before other deductions.

So, we're not going to include the, you know, 15% in retirement. We're not going to include the health care premiums.

It's just after tax. So, have you done it based on that math?

Uh I would say not entirely.

[clears throat] Um I was doing it more so including like the 15% that I would have in retirement and all that. >> Okay, cuz then my guess is once you redo the math, you'll go, oh, it's actually like 20% of my after-tax income, but before the deductions.

Yep. Okay. That makes sense. So, you're in great shape, man. I'm proud of you. How did you do this?

Um so, I had a house on 30 acres previously that I sold for uh quite a bit more than I owed on it. Um I was able to take those proceeds, uh pay off my car, and then uh my parents were kind enough to let me and my girlfriend live in their basement while we're building this house.

Uh and basically every month that we've been there, I've been able to set aside quite a bit of uh cash to kind of build up my savings >> And you're completely debt-free?

Yes. Fantastic.

And green lights over here. Congrats on the new house. I hope the build goes smoothly. Hope it's on time. Is it on track so far? Uh yeah, we're about 3 months ahead of schedule. Um Wow. We're some Technically, I'm a general contractor. My dad is helping me with that. He's like a inspector, so he's got all the certifications for that. Um so, been able to do a lot of it myself and kind of >> savings all over the place here. Yeah.

Yep, cost and time savings. Time savings has been the big one, for sure. Yeah.

Well, congrats, man. Super excited for >> for having me. Best of luck with with the big move and finishing the construction.

Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate the insight and the the discussion. Happy to do it. That's That's what you want. That's a good best-case scenario right there.

>> Good for him. I'm happy for him. If you're arguing about is it 28% or 25%, it's the right argument. >> Yeah. Versus most people just go, well, we just needed a house, and it's 54% of our take-home pay. We're like, oh my goodness. >> [laughter] >> This is a hard This is a hard one to crack. All right. Nora is in Nashville up next, right down the road. What's going on, Nora?

Hi, George and Jade. Um I am just calling because Um sorry, of

course somebody tries to call me as soon as I'm on this call. >> Ah, who could [laughter] be more important than us? Put him to voicemail.

>> Nobody. Nobody is more important unless it's my husband or my kids. >> Truth. Yeah, you're right. There's a lot of people ahead of us.

So, I came to the event and actually, Jade, you gave me your book.

>> Nice. >> one who asked the questions and I gave it to you from the stage? It's from the stage and I gave you a hug. Yep.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, it lit a fire and the

next Tuesday we joined Financial Peace University. >> Yay!

So, um so we're trying to get our emergency fund together and like things were so tight, but I just started selling stuff on Facebook Marketplace

and so since [laughter] since the 14th I've gotten $230.52

together. >> Way to go. Way to go.

And I'm still selling stuff. Someone's coming at like 4:00 to get something else. So >> to take that call.

>> So, once I get that thousand dollars, I was looking at the Every Dollar app and it looks like I should pay my IRS debts

first before I attack my smallest debt.

>> Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Okay. How much is the IRS debt?

It's $2,266.

Mhm. Good. Yeah, that that's one debt

that always jumps to the top of the list no matter what because it's just such a volatile situation to be in and so we want to get you out of that as soon as possible. So, yeah, that or if you had uh you know, back rent or back mortgage, those things would jump to the top of the list. How much other debt do you have?

Um so, we have about 62,500

and um yeah, that's it.

Great. So, what can we help you with?

What can we help you with? Was it just the IRS thing or was there something else? Well, I mean, I I mean, I make

good money, pretty good money. Like my husband and I together make about 117

and um but I've just been really irresponsible like I said at the event and um it's just trying to like get my behavior on track.

>> Mhm. Um I've really been >> traction?

I have. Like I haven't used my credit cards. I haven't been on like Klarna or PayPal pay in full. >> the credit cards?

Cut all of them up. >> Great. Great. Now, do you want to know what I would help with if I were in your shoes? If I had a problem with impulse spending, things like buy now, pay later, Klarna, I would do a couple of things. A, I would start with my phone

because that's usually the thing that speaks to us the most. Obviously, unsubscribe to all the ads. I would take Amazon off my phone. I would take those apps anything that's an app, I would take it off my phone that has the ability to purchase things with just so it's not talking to me all day long, you know? Okay. And I would really >> like unsubscribing to like the emails that get sent, you know, like from all the places that I've bought from before.

I'm like, okay, let's just unsubscribe from all this stuff. It's you get addictive when you start to go, look how many inputs are just trying to get my money from me. It's pretty wild.

>> Yeah. And I'd set up notifications that notify my spouse when money is spent both ways. So, you get the little text when a transaction comes out of the bank and so does he. Just an added layer of accountability and transparency because

it's easy to go through the drive-thru when you're thinking, oh, I can just go through. I'll get these fries. So-and-so probably won't see it. I can get away with it. But if you know their phone is going to light up with the you know, notification, $5.95 spent at Wendy's, then you're less likely to do it.

>> Oh, that's my favorite. I get all the transactions texted to me. Yeah. I'm always texting my wife. >> What's this? >> What was this about? Or usually it's more like, what did you get at McDonald's? >> [laughter] >> That Oh, yeah. Have you had your Looks like you had your break today. >> for me? That's always Do you have enough for the whole class? That becomes a fun discussion once you're not broke and out of debt. So, we're rooting for you, Nora. Thank you so much.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by W Y R E F I. You don't have to stay stuck in defaulted private student loans forever. W Y R E F I helps borrowers take back control with affordable refinancing options that actually work. Learn more at wyrefi.com/ramsey.

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Not available in all states. >> Okie dokie. Today's question comes from Vincent Rhode Island. Uh he says, my wife and I are buying a used car, but instead of paying cash, we're thinking of leveraging the debt considering we can get a low interest rate. We'd invest

the 30,000 into Vanguard funds and contribute more each year to fund a family cabin down payment. We're in our 30s, have over 200,000 in 401(k)s, no

other debt, have an emergency fund in place, and a steady income. Does this sound like a good plan?

No. >> No. Um here's my thing. You're doing so much right. I think it's just a patience a patience issue because you've done like you said, there's no debt, you've got the 401(k) set up and you know, you've got the emergency fund squared away. Why why divert? Like why

abort the plan and go into this lifestyle of debt for a vehicle that you can pay cash for? Pay cash for the vehicle that you want and there's and then from there on, yes, go ahead and go

ahead and invest for this cabin down payment. Why can you not do both and do both of them the right way is what I would say. George, >> Yeah, I'm like, it's just so I'm so confused. I'm like, what you would invest the 30k that you would have spent on the used car, but then you've got a car payment.

So, now your income's locked up there. Just invest what you would have paid for that car payment and pay in cash. >> Easy button.

>> a cheaper car. You can do both of these things. You could just need to do them both the right way. And you can do them both almost simultaneously. You just need to do them both the right way.

>> Yeah. You guys are in baby step four, so you're investing 15% of your income and buy the car in cash and then any extra money you can save up or even invest for that cabin down the road.

It can all be done. Just do it in the right order. Don't go backwards. Don't go backwards, please. Thanks for the question. David is in Los Angeles up next. David, welcome to the show.

David, you with us? Oh, yep. I'm here. Hey, how are y'all doing today? Doing great.

So, my wife and I were going to like plan to get pregnant later this year and when we do eventually have a baby, I'm going to need a new car. Right now, mine only has two seats and I'm probably going to need something with at least four. Um I was looking at getting a UV cuz the

prices on them are pretty attractive at least compared to a normal gas car.

But the one thing that has me worried about them is the amount of depreciation that they get hit with every year.

Um it seems like they depreciate way quicker than a gas car and I just wanted to know, is that something that I should be factoring into like my car buying decision or should I just completely ignore the depreciation and go for whatever car fits me? Are you paying cash? Yes, I would pay cash. Yeah. Okay.

What's this car going to cost? What what exact car are you looking at? Cuz I think the depreciation, it really depends on the make, the model. Now, EVs are obviously it's think about iPhones.

How many people are in the market for an iPhone 8?

Yeah, probably not very many. >> right? And so, the price is going to be a lot lower because everyone wants the latest and greatest technology. And so, EVs can have a steeper depreciation especially when, you know, Elon's changing the price and the model every day and you're like, oh man, I just paid 30 grand for it and it's only worth 20 now.

So, that is something to think about when it comes to resale value.

Okay. Yeah, I do typically drive my cars for a while. Um it's just like my car right now has barely depreciated at all. I got it pre-COVID pandemic pricing spree. So,

um you know, that that's kind of working in my favor right now. But being able to get out of it whenever I want to just seems like a really nice option to have and I feel like I'd be a little more trapped with an EV if I did go that route. >> What are you looking to spend?

Um I'm looking around 25, 30,000 dollars to spend on a used one. Okay. And what uh can you give you like a make and model you're looking at?

Sure. Yeah, I'm I'm still looking around a little bit right now, but right now my front runner is probably one of the Hyundai Ioniq 5s.

They seem to be some of the best deals out there, at least for the used ones in my opinion.

Okay, and have you looked at the depreciation on them?

I have, yes. So, currently they're like, you know, about half the price that they were new and I've done some research online and they're still forecasted to lose another half in the next like 5 or so years. Yeah. That tracks. Have you looked at uh Tesla as well to compare the depreciation?

I have. Um I'm I'm not a huge fan of the the Teslas just with everything buried in the screens and stuff like that. So, I was trying to go for a more traditional car feel. Some analog controls and things like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I've experienced this because I've purchased uh EVs now. My last two have been EVs and looking at the depreciation really just hurts your soul.

And then I have to remind myself, who cares? Do I like the vehicle? It's paid in cash, so I can never be underwater on it. And yes, I'll take a lick when I go to sell it and go, "Oh my gosh, I paid so much more for that." But that's the nature of cars.

They are just boxes that exist outside and go down in value. And you'll find that with any car, but EVs can, depending on the make and model, go down in value a little faster because people want the latest and greatest. And especially if it's it hasn't kept up with technology. And so, that's the key.

Okay. So, yeah, don't treat it as like I'll save so much money on gas. Treat it more as like this is the kind of car that I enjoy driving and I should go with this. >> never use like the [snorts] math to justify it.

I just go, "I enjoy it. I like not having to stop by a gas station." That's just me. >> Yeah, that does seem like a huge perk in my opinion. That that really seems nice to be able to come down to your car every morning and have it have a full full charge and full tank to go wherever you need to.

>> I still have to go to the gas station to fill my wife's car because I'm a I'm a gentleman and a scholar. [laughter] And I get brownie points. >> in the same boat, yeah. She's got a gas car that I would probably still need to fill up every now and then.

Yeah, that was the that was the compromise. She was like, "I don't feel good about having all EVs like just in case you want to have the ice car, but I think you guys are you're on the right track, man. The fact that you're paying cash, you guys are debt free, you're investing.

Perfect, yeah. Thank you so much.

>> you the best starting a family, man.

That's that's a big step. Austin is in Salt Lake City up next. What's going on, Austin?

Hey guys. [clears throat] I got hopefully two questions if you got time. I'll make them quick, but if not, my main one my wife and I are also preparing to have a baby this year. Woohoo. And currently maxing out Yeah, maxing out our HSA. I'm

just wondering should we use the HSA to pay for health care expenses like that or if we can, should we cash flow them and let that HSA continue to stay invested and build and do the whole save the receipts and do them down the line type of a deal?

I'll I'll say this. >> take on that? That's what Dave Ramsey does. Dave Ramsey has never touched his HSA.

He maxes it out every year and he cash flows it because he can. And so, if that is you and you're in the you're in the case to do that where you go, "Hey, we can cash flow it. It's not going to, you know, bust our budget to do that. We can max it out." Then yes, keeping the majority of invested is always going to be beneficial.

And like you said, a lot of people don't realize, hang on to the receipts and you can reimburse it later on and that money will show up in your bank account. So, it's pretty cool how that works. >> Yeah, I agree. Jade may have different thoughts, but >> Nope, that's what we did.

Okay, so cool. That's kind of what I was thinking, but I just wanted to take your guys' opinion on that. And then if you got time for another quick one, I just got married over the summer.

So, we've been married about 7 months now. Um and we've combined our finances, combined our lives, everything.

Um I already had a house and our vehicles before we went into the marriage. I'm just wondering should I is there a way or do I need to get her on the title of the house or on the mortgage or like on the the title for the cars or does that really matter?

It's not really necessary. Technically, it's going to roll over to her anyway as your spouse if something were to happen to you. Um if if it were something that

she was like, "I just feel better about this." then you you could.

Yeah, nothing's on on fire here. So, if it just it makes you guys feel more united, awesome, but there's no like this is really going to benefit us in this explicit way. It's not really the case. You guys have, you know, legal protections as a married couple. And so, [music] you're doing all the right things, man. I'm proud of you guys. Wishing you the best with this uh baby. Very exciting.

>> Thank you. Two calls in a row. Look at this. >> it. That's that's the best thing you can do, I think. It's outside of the baby steps. >> [music] >> But we tell them, "Hey, there's no baby steps to have a baby." If you want to start a family, go for it. Go get it. And you'll you'll work even harder to sacrifice to take care of that little one. And uh it's a good [music] time.

>> [music]

>> When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan and that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramsaysolutions.com/start, answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramsaysolutions.com/start.

>> [music]

[music] >> If you're wondering where all your money went in 2025, that's normal. And normal

is broke. But the good news is this year can be different. You can get a head start by downloading EveryDollar.

EveryDollar builds you a personalized plan and coaches you to find extra money and then put it to work to beat debt and build wealth. Just answer a few questions and you'll find thousands on average in just the first 15 minutes.

And EveryDollar still has the same great budgeting features to help you tell your money where to go. So, don't go another year feeling broke and stressed. Start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Marie joins us up next in Charleston. What's going on, Marie?

Good afternoon, guys. So, my biggest question, I'm a single mom with three young kids. I was widowed in 2023. Mhm. And I'm just I have a

limited budget because we are currently

living just on Social Security survivor benefits. And I'm trying to go to school, get a certificate so I can add to that once my 4-year-olds in school.

So, I'm trying to right now with where I am, knowing I probably won't be out of school until next year.

Um trying to figure out what my wisest steps are going forward. I've never been

good with money. Um and I just want to I want to do better for them and for our

situation. Well, that's a great why.

That is what's going to fuel this journey is those three little ones that you're taking care of.

What's their ages?

Uh my youngest three are eight, six, and four. Okay. And what's the certificate that you're pursuing?

Uh health information technology.

And what's on the other side of that? What job are you aiming for? Um I'm kind of looking for something that keeps me uh the ability to have flexibility and remote. So, that's one of the reasons I chose that path.

Okay. And are you cash flowing this certificate? Are you able to pay for it all? Uh I'm actually able to get it through financial aid. So, it's Pell Grants. I'm able to get through all of it with Pell Grants. >> Great. When will you be finished?

Uh I think it's not this coming December, but the December following.

Okay, so you've got two >> But I have I have a potential to do to do to go into like an internship that or like to where I can do on-the-job kind of clinical type training at the hospital and make money through a portion of that. Okay. >> Okay, great. >> of next year and then in the meantime, we're going to be living off of the survivor benefits, which is how much per month? So, right now I take in about 52,000 a

year. 50 52,700 a year. Okay. Is that

enough to cover all of your bills?

It it is and I do have quite a bit of credit card debt that I was left with

because of my late husband's

Was your name on them? opened a bunch of credit cards in my name. Oh, okay. How much? Yeah. Um right now without my car,

I have 27,000 left in credit card debt.

And then what about with the car?

With the car, total of it's just under 70,000. I had to get a new car this last

year when mine 43,000?

>> Subaru. What's left on the loan?

Uh it's 33.

33 and some change. Goodness, that's a huge portion of your yearly income.

It is. It is. And the the thing that I do have going forward is I am in a relationship with someone that it is leading to a marriage and he's

encouraged me to not try to cuz if I tried to sell that, I'd be really upside down at this point. I wasn't wise when I bought it and I'm clear about that. But my financial situation will drastically change once we're married. I just I'm with the Dave Ramsey plan that you don't combine those things until you're there.

>> Are you engaged? >> trying Uh not yet, but it's hopefully this spring. Okay. Okay.

So it is it is in the our conversations. It's a it's a very active topic. We're just I need to There's a aspect of this that I being that I haven't always been financially responsible, there's a percentage of me wanting to do this and struggle. I need to feel the struggle.

And I don't think that you are. I just want to caution you against thinking about well, in the future I'll have this financial help because this is leading to marriage. Cuz you're not even at engagement yet. So I just want you to be really focused on what you are doing.

And the how upside down are you on the car?

Uh I'm not quite sure. I just got it in June of last year. I know that as of right now, once my cuz I I'm living rent-free. I'm able to live in a home that my mom owns, and I just pay utilities. Okay. >> So that is a huge help. So right now >> car. I'd check on the car immediately.

I'd go on Kelly Blue Book, see what the value is, and >> party value, not trade-in. >> Cuz that will make it seem like, oh my gosh, I'm 10 grand under. I would never sell it. But if you can save up the difference with the margin you have cuz you're living rent-free, maybe you're $5,000 underwater.

Okay, well, let's come up with 10,000 in savings. Five will cover the difference on the loan, and five will get you something to get from A to B. Now, maybe you get a nicer car, but it doesn't need to be a $33,000 car. Right.

>> Those are still safe and reliable, even for the kids. It's not a death trap.

Don't let anyone scare you into thinking that or even yourself. That's usually how we justify Well, I had to get a new car. The kids, you know, you got to have something reliable. Less debt is the goal. Yeah, what's the payment on that? Less debt is the goal. So >> Yeah, what's the payment on that? Right.

Right. Uh the payment is 655. Yeah, that

would rock your world right now.

>> It'll change your life. >> Right. So >> It It definitely could, for sure. I I do like the the man that I see that him and his youngest daughter come over and eat all the time. So he does throw me $500 a month for groceries because he does care.

So that that does help some. So like right now without what he does help me with, I my disposable income after

paying my debt, which is 1,700 bucks a month, and my just fixed expenses, like my bills, is 822. I bring I left over

disposable I have 1,800 bucks left over.

Okay. Without his help. And that goes towards your smallest debt?

The 1,800? >> asking cuz I have I know I have to have my uh I haven't even started my emergency fund yet, and I know that that's like number one, step number one. So eight with the 1,800, let's put it prac- practically to

to With the 1,800, I take a thousand aside this month when you when you're left with that margin, a thousand of it put it aside, savings account, done and done, baby step one knocked out. Then you have $800 to look over at the credit cards and go, what's the smallest credit card? And so what's the smallest balance

you have on one of those credit cards?

I mean, I have something as low as 123 up to 5,300.

>> So we're going to knock out >> Go ahead. >> quite a few of those. >> Yeah, knock out >> knock quite a few of those. Knock them out all the way up to 800 bucks.

And then if there's any other margin left out or that money that comes through at the end of the month, just go ahead and throw it at the next credit card. And you're really going to do that, Marie, until these credit cards are knocked out. I do like the idea so so much of you getting in a cheaper car because >> Okay. knocking that out is going to make this journey feel so much more feasible for you.

Plus, it's going to free up money. Like I said, even if you go from a $33,000 car to a $23,000 car, that's still going to free up money for you.

lower the debt if that makes sense.

>> Right. And our parameter on cars, just so you know, is that everything with wheels and motors in your life shouldn't add up to more than half of your annual income. And so we're well over that.

>> I understand that. And so even if [clears throat] you could >> was before I like really started listening and being active. >> Oh, sure. Sure. I'm just saying in in the sense of keeping the car, it's still too much of your world depreciating in value every day. And so I know it feels like, well, it's I'm already underwater. Well, let's let's cut it off right here and uh not be more underwater. Cuz if you did that right now, you said you have how much total consumer debt?

Total consumer debt is 69,000. Okay, what's the extra nine? Cuz you said 27,000 on credit cards, 33 on the car, that's 60.

Uh Is there more? I don't know. Uh that's the student loans.

Student loans, okay. >> Student loans. Cuz right now, I'm doing the math for you. 1,800 bucks, and you have 69,000. It's going to take you 38 months. You're talking over three years at this rate. Mhm. That's a long time.

Yeah, and I mean, that's that's the thing for me is I want to I have zero retirement. I was a stay-at-home mom for 10 years. Right. >> So I have zero retirement. And you know, unfortunately, he passed in the because of the way he passed, he had life insurance, but we were two months shy of being getting the payout for that. So I've been kind of trying to float >> [laughter] >> for two years now. Well, you've done a great job.

>> You've done a great job. Keep going.

You got to the car is a huge part of this cuz I don't want this to take three years. >> on the car, so so if I What if I don't have cash to buy a new one? You'll just go over to the credit union, and you'll get a loan, or you'll go to the bank and get a loan for the difference. At this point, just remember, going down is worth it.

[music] So get you a loan for the difference however you need to get that done.

If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in baby step four or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The live like no one else cruise is back March 14th through 21st, 2027.

Join the Ramsey personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Cay, Cozumel, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman on the ultimate debt-free vacation. Cabins will

sell out just like last time. Lock in yours with a $600 deposit at ramseysolutions.com/events.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 41:10.

So do not fear, for I am with you. Do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you. I will uphold you with my righteous hand.

Simon Sinek said, "When in doubt, be

yourself." There you go. That's good advice if you've if you've got a good personality, Jade. >> Sometimes I'm told, "Hey, don't do that." Well, that's just who I am.

>> [laughter] >> Don't be that vulnerable.

Be a different version of yourself.

>> Yeah.

Austin is up next in DC. Austin, welcome to the show.

Jade and George, thank you for taking my call. Sure.

How can we help?

Um yeah, so between my wife and I, I have about 142 K

in consumer debt. And huge fork in the road right now. I've got a toddler and a kid on the way due this summer. So very uh precarious situation. And uh I'm just trying to decide if I should do a single filing for a chapter seven or go another route. I really don't want to do chapter seven, but if I have to and if it makes the most sense, then I will, but thought I would call you guys for advice first. Well, how much money do you guys earn?

Uh well, um right now, we only make about 78 total, which is well below the median.

Okay. >> the median what? I got laid off.

The median income median household income for my area.

Well, who cares about that?

Is that both of you working now? >> the reason you guys are in this situation, Austin.

Yeah, I I I agree. >> The median is like what, 8 79, 80? Okay.

You're two grand short of the median.

The The problem is we're $142,000 in consumer debt. So break this down for me so we can see if there's a way out of this faster.

Sure. Yep, so uh myself, I have 72 to my name, and

then another Well, it's actually 100 81,000 if you include student loans, but Tell us the the consumer debt is Tell us the the the debts and what they're each worth. So student loans, X amount of dollars, cars, X amount of dollars.

Yeah, so student loans is 39, car is

17,284.

And then everything else is personal loans, personally guaranteed loans, and personally guaranteed credit cards. Okay, and how much is that amount?

Uh let me do some napkin math here. So minus the car, so if you subtract 17

from 142, that's all of the personally

guaranteed loans and credit cards. Okay.

All right. >> talking about that can't that can't I mean, 125 grand between them?

Mhm. Okay. What was it for? A business?

Did you have a failed business? What is this all of these personally guaranteed loans and credit cards?

>> Yeah, so the dream was basically to

you know, retire the wife from the military.

And you know, I I went about it completely the wrong way, obviously, and you know, just dug myself into a hole doing business ventures, um you know, Airbnb, and then

we tried an Amazon store, and then after the layoff last month, uh we ended up having to live on the revenue from the Amazon store. Um so I'm

not able to pay off any of the consumer debt that I used to get the Amazon store.

Um so, um that's where we're at now, and um Do you still have this this property that you're doing Airbnb on?

It [snorts] was a I made a mistake of doing rental arbitrage last year. Dude, how much TikTok have you been watching?

Well, This is like by the book every TikTok like business hack scam out

there.

Yeah, you know, they sold me a dream, and I got a you know, I own up to that, and it was it seemed like a good idea at

the time when um you know, my my father-in-law died, and I was just really trying to find a way to Okay. >> make as much money as possible to retire my wife, and So, what is she doing I just went I went about it completely the wrong way. Yeah. Listen, I think I think you ought to that at this point you've got to just say that's in the past.

I think you realize that it was erroneous, and I think you're ready to go the right direction.

Um that's both of both of us combined right now since she's full-time um active duty, and um I'm still in the process of getting work. I'm trying to get a certification for cybersecurity Cybersecurity. down the road, but >> What are you earning? What portion of that is your income today of the 78,000?

What portion of that is yours today?

Of the 78,000, what portion of that is mine? >> Yeah, what do you bring in? So, Well, I'm doing I'm doing some side gigs in the meantime before school starts or if I get accepted.

>> monthly every month how much money do you bring in every month?

How much money do I bring in? Probably if I'm being realistic, probably between a thousand and two thousand right now doing side gigs with media and stuff like that. >> Okay, so that's that's our biggest issue is I know that you're doing a certification for cybersecurity. How much of your day does that take up?

Um so, I'm not doing it yet. The program starts in would start in March.

>> Okay, so I'm I'm I'm I'm cutting you I'm cutting you off a lot because I want to get to solutions, and I don't want to fluff around on this. All right, you need to get a job instantly. Any job any job,

not side gigs. You can fill in space with side gigs, but I want you to apply for anything that you think you could possibly get. I want you to make a list tonight. Your job tonight is to make a list of anybody you know that might know somebody that's hiring, that has an uncle that's hiring somebody that whose father-in-law is hiring somebody, and I want you to put the word out I need to work immediately.

I need I need connections. If you know anybody, and that I mean, you're going to be like a dog on a bone trying to get a job because you can't make a thousand you can't make 1,500 bucks a month. Now, your wife seems like she's kind of carrying the bulk of that, but like you said, there's a baby coming in the summertime.

her situation of working is getting more and more precarious as the months go on.

So, this is your number one deal.

>> two is we got a toddler we got a toddler at home, and I need to get a job that I'll make enough to qualify for a county assistance.

So, that's the kind of a thought of mine right now. It's like I would love to get a job >> You're so you're saying I need to you need to limit your income in order to get assistance. >> No, you need what you need to do is find a friend cuz you're in a community. You need to find a friend that's like, "Hey, I need help watching with the the baby sometimes because I need to go over here." If there's family in town, this is you reaching out to everybody you know because what I don't want is for you to file bankruptcy.

That's what I'm getting at.

That is somebody else stepping into the situation and saying, "You're going to sell this. You're going to do this.

You're going to pay this amount, and you're going to do this amount." >> And you can't bankrupt on the student loans. They're going to take the car, and so a lot of this is not going to solve the major problems. And you'll be able to do those things. We can look at this and say, "Why don't we just look at it and go, okay, here's what we're going to do.

We're going to pay this. We're going to sell this. We're going to do You can look at it and do that and not decimate your your financial life for I mean, seven years. >> you personally, right?

Are you guys renting?

What's that? Are you renting?

Yeah, we're renting right now. Okay, how much is your rent every month?

2,500. And that's that's steep for the

income. Is your wife going to continue to have income when she has the baby?

Yeah, maternity leave, so I'm guaranteed income. Okay, good good good good At least we have some stability there, and then how much is she bringing in on her own? Is that another three or four grand a month?

Um after taxes, 6,300.

Oh, great. >> Great. So, once we get you working, I mean, right now when you guys pay your bills at the end of the month, are you in the green or are you in the red? You should be in the green.

Um it it's really close. If we pay all

the minimums, I think we're if we're not breaking even, we're probably at a couple hundred dollars deficit. >> Okay, so we're going to give you every dollar because I want to know I want you to know exactly how much money you have

and how much exactly how much money you're spending. That's going to give you a lot of peace just seeing the numbers there. And then you can say to yourself, "Okay, if we're in the green right now, at least we're kind of safe

for a moment. We're not operating in the red. Everybody else can wait, right? It can wait until you get a job. It can wait until you cuz you're giving them the the minimum payments. But once you get that job, it's attack mode on [music] this debt. Smallest to largest debt snowball method. You got to fight, man. Don't give up now.

That puts the hour of the Ramsey [music] Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, [music] Christ Jesus.

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## 133. Rock Bottom Doesn’t Have to Define Your Financial Future | May 7, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by my friend Dr.

John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Steve is going to kick us off in Hartford, Connecticut. What's going on, Steve?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Doing great. How are you?

>> Oh, hanging in there.

>> What's your problem today? What's going on?

>> Geez, George, >> what's your deal, man? >> Steve, what's your problem?

>> Unless you just want to celebrate a win today. >> No. What's up, man?

>> So, so I'm in an interesting situation.

Uh, back in 2018, I had uh purchased a

house uh with my stepfather at the time.

Um, and it seemed like a good idea. We were splitting the the percentages. It was going to get me into a house uh a little bit sooner. I had a growing family. Uh, and they were supposed to only be there 6 months out of the year.

Fast forward to a couple years ago, uh,

my mother had split up. Uh, and at this point in time now, my mother is is living downstairs, uh, in the in-law apartment, uh, of which I am responsible

for all the utilities right now, and it's really hindering my ability to, uh,

make any progress on my my debt snowball

and make some progress in the baby steps. And I'm just wondering, you know, should I look to to sell this house? My mortgage is super low. My my mortgage is under $1,000 a month. Um, and I do have

some equity in the home, but I'm wondering if if it makes sense for me to sell, uproot my kids, find somewhere else to go, either raise my mortgage or even have to potentially get a rent. Uh, or if I should have just a conversation with my mom, start trying to get some utilities from her. Um, it's just it's a sticky situation. I don't know where to go with it. >> I'm so confused. So, let me get the facts straight. You your exepather is on

the mortgage.

>> My ex My ex-step is We're going to get

real We're going to get really weird here. So, my ex-step uh is actually my mortgage holder. Uh and he owns a part of my house. >> So, he is the bank.

>> He is the bank owner by part owner.

>> He does not live there anymore. your mom lives there and you're saying you can't pay off your debt because the utilities that your mom isn't paying for are crushing you financially.

>> I'm saying that with utilities, the extra utilities that I have for the house, it's a, you know, it's a 2500 foot home. I live in 1,700 ft of it, but I am responsible for all all utilities and all expenses of the home, insurance, everything. So, >> yeah, but that's like that's like 150 bucks a I just don't want you blaming mom for, you know, the $40 extra in water bills that that's why you can't get ahead financially.

>> So, my electric bill during the during the winter months is over $750 a month.

>> I have electric heat. So, my my utility bills are are in 7 to $1,000 range a

month. >> So, what's the ideal situation? Your mom pays rent or your mom gets out?

>> Uh, that I don't know. I don't I I feel like I should get out of this deal. Like I said, my mortgage isn't isn't high. My mortgage only is less than $1,000 um a month. So, I don't want to to sell, but I also kind of don't want to be in this deal any longer either. I kind of want to be >> that that to me that's worth it to get out of this weird deal with your ex-stepfather. >> That but that sounds like the real issue.

Is that is that the real issue? Is your mom using $500 a month in heat in the basement?

>> No, it's there's a little bit more to to my mom's side too than I >> don't necessarily want to share here, but it's also kind of affecting my relationship with and my mother.

>> Okay. We just didn't want to make this about the surface level, you know, dollars and utility bills. There's more there, which is cool. You don't need to share it all. And then on the Could you do you want to keep this house? That's step one. If you had it on your own, would you want to keep it? And if you could afford it,

>> I'm 5050. I love I love the neighborhood. I love where my house is.

Um I don't with with the in-law

apartment that's downstairs, the house doesn't make sense for me to own it 100%.

>> Okay. >> But I mean, could could you go to a mortgage company and buy your exepfather out? >> Just get a mortgage from them. >> Get a mortgage from them. Buy him out. Get him out of there. and then have a hard conversation with your mom about whether she's going to pay rent or not or she's got to move out cuz you're going to hire you're going to get a real renter in there.

>> I I could um I can't I can't legally

rent it. It's not a a legal in-law apartment. So, I can't legally rent it.

Um so, >> you can't rent a room in your house?

>> It's not a room. It's a It's a 1100 foot in-law apartment. But is there Connecticut laws that say it's not zoned for >> rent? I don't It's not It's not currently set up right now to have someone externally outside of my my family live in it. It's connected into my house. There's It's >> okay. Well, that's not against the law. That'd be awkward or weird, but >> it's it's weird. It It's weird.

>> Okay. It could be weird. And again, I I've lived in Texas and Tennessee. I could rent my roof if I wanted to, but you may have different laws in Connecticut. But >> yeah, if you don't want strangers walking in and out of your front door, I I get that. >> All things are pointing to you sell this house, you get out of this weird exepfather situation. Mom then needs to go find her own place and you start a new chapter. That feels like the cleanest thing to do.

>> Yeah. >> But that has nothing to do with you cuz let's say your rent goes to $1,500. I mean, your mortgage comes to $1,500 a month or $1,700 a month. You're still

you're solving for the relationship issues that you got in this deal, but you're going to be dollar for dollar about the same, right?

>> Yeah. >> What do you make a month?

>> Uh, I take home about $7,500 a month.

>> Great. So, even if your mortgage or even if you rented for a while until you figured out where you wanted to buy, you'd be just fine.

>> Yeah. >> So, this is all purely relational. I do have four I have four kids, so I do I do need some some space.

>> Are you single?

>> I'm married. >> Okay. And does your spouse live in the same house? >> She does. >> What does she think about all this?

>> She's about the same as where I am.

>> She'd be happy to to start fresh new house without all these financial family ties.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I think you got your your homework or home shopping. But I I I still want I want to challenge you on one thing and then I'll let you go.

Are you How old are your kids?

>> Uh I got a 8-year-old, I got a seven-year-old, a four-year-old, and about to be a one-year-old.

>> Okay. So, you're fully in it. You You're going to do six. And again, I know people all over planet Earth live in different arrangements, and that's awesome. But you're sitting in a 2500 foot house. You're going to do life with six people in a 1500 foot house or 1,700

foot house?

>> That's where I am right now. That's my little my living space is 1,700 ft.

>> I know. But you're telling me that's all you need and you've got too much house or do you have too much house for you and your mom to be there? Or could your

family expand it? Use this this basement space too?

>> We could expand to use the basement space. just doesn't it's it's a raised ranch, so it doesn't really make sense the downstairs. It'd be kind of hard to split my family up in in the the space.

So, having both I don't think makes sense for me logically to buy him out and and want to own the whole thing. Um, >> is he going to be willing to sell if you put this on the market?

>> Yeah, I'm sure he >> What would he get out of it versus you as far as the proceeds?

>> He's just he's just going to get his percentage. >> Okay. Yeah, I would sell it today.

>> Yeah, I would take what you can get out of that. If you can't afford to buy a home based on those proceeds, the one you want, then you just got to wait and maybe rent somewhere for a while until you can afford it. But this whole thing is just so intertwined. I would just want out emotionally. Best of luck.

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Todd is in Pittsburgh up next. Todd, welcome to the Ramsey Show. >> I thought you said God is in Pittsburgh.

>> He's also >> Todd is in Pittsburgh. All right. >> Todd and Todd are there. >> What's up, Todd?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Um,

my wife and I just got married December 27th. Um, we're in baby step three. Uh,

we now have four kids. who are a blended family and I'm wanting to know what is the best way to invest in the kids'

future when they are all vastly different ages.

>> Ooh. So, is are you trying to decide what's fair versus like, hey, one kid's about to go to college. Do we invest the same for the fouryear-old?

>> Exactly. So, their ages are 7, 10,

um, 16 and 17.

and my wife and I, my wife didn't get help with college when she was growing up. Um, I went straight into a family business and construction. So, I didn't

go to college. Um, so we are clueless on how to even invest for the kids.

>> Well, what do you want to do for these kids? Um, I would I mean I would like to

be fair, but I understand that because of the difference in age. Um, it would be nice if I could, you know, just give them put up all the same amount um for

each of them. And like I said, we're just in baby step three, but I'm just kind of looking ahead because we're looking for baby step three to kind of be a breeze. Um, and it's just uh

nothing I really know about. I don't know if there's a certain type of account to put up for each of them or um

or what. >> I I'll tell you, I had a similar situation, not not with um a blended family, but I worked in universities for 20 years. And part of working at a university for that long is you get some

sort of if not all of your tuition covered for your kids if you work there.

And then I left and took this job. And

so my I I didn't have any college savings because I was working in colleges, my wife was working at university, and that was just our plan.

And so I have a 16-year-old right now and a 10-year-old. And so the way we've handled it is we came up with a dollar amount that we want to have saved for each kid. But that means I had to

accelerate the savings for one kid and I'm slow playing it for for the other.

So, if you look at my budget every month, I'm not being quote unquote fair.

I'm holding back more money for one kid than I am for the other. But the number we're going to try to get to is is going

to be comparable. Right.

>> Right. >> So, and I think part of this is pretty solvable for you all because y'all don't have any money for the 17-year-old right now. Right.

>> Right. >> And so, some of that problem takes care of itself. You might want to look at the at the two younger kids and say, "Okay, we want to make sure this is different for them, too." But your 16 and 17-year-old have found themselves like life just happened. And so, y'all need to have some honest conversations about what we can afford and what we can afford and what debt has done to us over the years.

And here's the options in our local area. Free community college, um, lowcost state tuition.

Okay. Yeah. So, with the 17-year-old, he's getting ready to go to the Marines.

>> Okay. Great. That's >> We helped him out with his first car.

>> Great. >> Um, so which only ended up being five a

$500 Ford Ranger, which is

>> ran great. Um, >> that's awesome. >> So, that that was that was a good start.

Um, >> now I don't I just don't have any expectations as to what to do from here on out. And then if I do come up with a number amount or you guys help me do that, um where where does that money go

until it needs to go to them?

>> So if you want to invest that money, which if we're talking about investing that's a five plus year time horizon, which means it doesn't make sense for the 16 or 17year-old if you're investing for education, for example, when you got one or two years ahead of you. But for the seven and 10 year olds, you could invest for college in a 529 savings plan, for example, or an education savings account. So, you're going to earmark that money for college.

So, that's one place I would put some money if you want to help cover college.

Now, the good news is, let's say they don't go, you can also change the beneficiary anytime. So, anybody, it's a pretty loose definition of family that you can change that beneficiary to. And with the new secure act 2.0, you can roll over up to $35,000 over time into a Roth IRA for that child. So it can become kind of a bonus

retirement account for them as well. So that's one way to invest. And I like what Deloney is saying here. I would make it more goal-based rather than monthly contribution based.

So the goal is all of the kids go to school without debt if they choose to go to school. The goal is every child gets a paid for cash card. That's reasonable. Those are good goals.

And then the number changes depending on the ages and what you guys can do. Right now, your emergency fund is the priority over saving for the kids.

So, what's your household income?

>> Um, between my wife and I, um, probably

about, uh, 180.

>> Fantastic.

That's great. So, we're talking I mean, >> we got out of seven grand or so.

What's that? >> If you do 15% of that, that's baby step four. So, if you're walking through the Ramsey plan, you're in baby step three, saving up 3 to six months of expenses.

Once you've got that covered, now we start investing 15% of our household income into retirement accounts. So, if you've got a match through your employer, start there. You have access to any Roth accounts like a Roth 401k, Roth IRA, let's fund that. And if you still haven't hit 15%, go to the traditional accounts. And then any money beyond that 15% can start going towards kids investing goals like college.

>> Okay, that makes sense. >> And for short-term savings goals like you're talking about with a 16 or 17year-old, a high yield savings account will do the job for that. That's going to keep the money liquid. It's not going to fluctuate with the market. And so you're much better off there versus the kid turns 18 and the market took a dip and now you're you're stuck. >> Yeah. My my 16-year-old's college fund is in a high yield savings account. It's exactly where it is.

>> Okay, great. And so that's better, of course, versus like a brokerage account or something like that, correct? >> Yeah, the brokerage account now, that's something I utilize for my kids. That is for future goals that are non-education related.

So, I have a, you know, a a 2-year-old and an infant. So, I'm saving up going, "All right, I want to cover their wedding one day. I want to be able to help them get a car, maybe a home down payment, those kinds of things.

>> Okay, great. >> So those would be the three places I would put money is 529 for education, high yield savings for any short-term goals and brokerage account for any long-term goals for the kids.

>> And let me just free you, brother. None of this is going to be exactly fair.

And what I mean by fair is there's no way you're going to be able to find another $500 great running car, right?

>> When the seven-year-old is 16 trying to get a car, a beater car is going to be $10,000. >> Yeah. And hopefully you're making 280 at that time. Right.

>> Right. >> And you're going to be in a better place financially when that seven-year-old is going to college. And so it isn't going to be fair. You're going to be doing much better by then. and just just go ahead and build in the psychological cushion for your oldest getting back from the Marines being like, "Are you kidding me? You bought so and so." And you'd be like, "Yep, right." And that's just that's part of being a parent.

Right.

>> I I think that's what I needed to hear the most. So, thank you for that. >> Yeah, you got it. Like, do the best you can with what you got when you got it.

The only thing I'll ask is be as honest as you can with your kids in real time.

Um, it is a it can be embarrassing. It

can be shameful. Feel you could feel not you shouldn't be ashamed, but you could have feel shame like, "Hey, 17 year old or your 17-year-old going Marines, but hey, 16-year-old, this is the situation we've been in, and this is what we're going to have to contribute. We're only going to have $10,000." And so, let's go through the honest options here and let's figure out what's right. Like, it's just being as honest as you can.

and then look at your seven and eight-year-old and say, "Let's make sure this never happens again." And so, we're gonna start putting more away for them to have different opportunities. Which is awesome. >> Yeah. It's when they're surprised, that's when the resentment starts to build up cuz nobody told them. They didn't know. They saw one sibling get treated a different way. So, communicate openly and honestly with all four kids.

Yeah. >> Say, "Hey, here's where we're at financially. Here's what we want to cover. Here's what we can cover right now. Means you got to figure out a plan, 16-year-old, cuz we can't cash flow 4 years at an outofstate school. It's going to look different for you." Thanks for the call, man. Great question.

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next. Betty, welcome to America. What's going on?

>> Thank you so much for having me.

>> How can we help today?

I just feel just so so desperate for

help right now. Um

I am in my mid30s. I've been married for 10 years and we have five five kids together under seven. And um >> wo >> I thought we were doing really good with our baby steps um on four or five six

and then I just found out that he's been

um just hiding some debts that I didn't

know was happening.

>> Oh man.

How did you find out?

Um, I just had a feeling something wasn't right.

And when I asked about it, he was very

defensive and nope, nope, nothing. And I

just had the boldness to keep pressing.

And then he was like, yeah, like this is

why I haven't wanted to fully share an

account because my account is always negative.

And then what did he did he actually give you the facts afterwards? Was he honest or did you have to keep pressing?

>> So the numbers did change a little bit.

Um and he did look a little scared and I

just tried to be very calm, very safe so he would feel comfortable telling me the truth.

And I said, "I need I need to see your account." which still hasn't happened.

Um, >> so, >> and I want >> Go ahead. Go ahead.

>> And I I said, I want you to see a counselor with me because we like we

will figure this out and we need to stay together. Like, we have five kids. Like, I'm forever tied to him.

>> Okay. I'm going to give you some hard reality. Okay. How much How much money does he say he owes?

It's It's not much, but like every pay

about 40% just goes to whatever he's been spending. So I his check goes into his

account and 40% just gets eaten up and then 60% I

see for the household expenses and our

>> All right. So, >> but he's still negative every every pay.

>> Okay. So, here's what you're going to need underneath your feet. Okay. Um I I

call this financial infidelity. He's been cheating and lying to you. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> And so, first off, I want you to not think you're crazy for this blowing up your world. It did.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. You're at home managing five kids, a family of seven, trying to feed them on allegedly 60% of their paycheck.

Okay. >> Mhm. Um, you should feel like the rug got pulled out from under you cuz it did. >> Yeah. >> And you're also right to ask, "What else have you been lying about? What else are you hiding from me?" Cuz we had this little secret world that we built together and you were out of it. You stepped out of it.

>> Mhm. >> Um, you're not going to have any sort of ability to rebuild this marriage until you know how the depths of where these things go. I would recommend you pull a credit report today on both of you.

Okay? He will have to pull his credit report and if he says no, then that is I

can't think of a bigger red flag because

and again I'm giving you the worst case scenario here. Okay? But when this happens in this way, it's not uncommon

for what's being hidden is not just

screwdrivers and motorcycles

But it could be hotels, it can be dinners, it can be addictions that you don't know about. Everything is now on the table. And so I want to pull a credit report and not just look at his account. I want to see who he owes money to. And I want you to pull your credit report. And this is going to sound costic. I want you to pull a credit report on all of your kids using their social security numbers.

Because when we people call into the show all the time and they don't realize how bad it is and people start gambling or people get in over the head and they pull a credit a credit card out on their 9-year-old and use that social security number to get a quick thousand bucks here or a quick $2,000 there. And so that will give you the big picture of

who you owe to what, who your family owes to what. Hopefully, you have nothing on yours and your kids have nothing on theirs and his is minimal.

And what this is was a scared, embarrassed husband that took the easy way out and he is ready to stand tall, take his medicine, and y'all can rebuild trust. Worst case scenario is you're in a way bigger mess than you know yourself to be in. Mhm.

>> But you can't you can't go to an untrustworthy person and demand that now you be trustworthy and think you're going to get any sort of nervous system stability from that because they've proven themselves to be untrustworthy over a long period of time. And so I need to see this stuff with my own eyes.

>> So how do I get a credit report done?

like >> I don't know how to. >> It's a simple website. >> It's all free. >> It's annualcreditreport.com and you can pull free weekly online reports from all three major bureaus.

It's Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion.

And so you'll just go through the steps, enter it. You never pay for this. This is free. So just go to that website and you can get that all done. annualcreditreport.com.

And that like John said, that will be the full truth and nothing but the truth. So regard I really don't care what he says. I want the reality of the situation. And again, if he's unwilling to do that, that speaks to much deeper things he's hiding. There's an alternate life here. And that tells me he doesn't

want healing in this marriage if he's not willing to come clean.

>> Right. And and let me say this. I want to applaud you for um

>> what you say you were calm so that he could feel safe enough to come forward.

I I want to applaud you for being in in

control, feeling big feelings, but being

emotionally mature, but you don't owe him dishonesty either.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> Your right to be enraged.

You're right. You're right to be sobbing at the table because this man lied to your face and to the face of his of y'all's five kids.

And so you don't also owe him a silver

platter that he can gently put out his receipts on, >> right? And so what I when I mean be you're responsible for the emotional like mature next right action, that means I'm not going to hit him. I'm not going to swear at him. I'm not going to punch a hole in the wall. Everybody deserves dignity and respect. But you you're dang well going to know I'm pissed off.

>> Yeah. >> You're going to know that everything in my life it I I'm questioning it now.

>> Mhm. >> Right. and you're not crazy and you don't owe him a false sense of yourself so that he feels comfortable coming forward with it, right?

>> Yeah. >> That's not your responsibility to massage his ego through this also.

>> Do you guys share an account or is everything? >> No, he wouldn't share it. >> So, you have no access to anything financial. He pays the bills.

>> So, he does pay the bills. We do have a

joint, but he has his own as well. So 60% he

diverts to the joint account. 40% diverts to this secret account. That's his. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, starting today, he's going to divert 100% into this joint account.

>> Okay. >> Or you separate if he's untrustworthy and he's going to destroy your financial life further. >> Yeah. And Betty, that that's a great point that George brings up. You need to get really clear on your what I call your or what statement

>> because if he looks across the table from you tonight and says, "I'm not pulling a credit report and I'm not giving you access to this account." Period. You have to have your or what statement ready or me and the five kids are going to my mom's house or well okay

then I guess I'll just have to live with it. And you mentioned we have to fix

this and stay together because we have five kids together. I need you to say that's the picture y'all created and that picture is over because of his financial infidelity. Now y'all have to rebuild something new and I hope it includes him and you and those five kids in the same house all working together to build something amazing. I hope that's the case. But you have to have the courage to say or what comes next.

And then be willing to to live into your own boundaries there. If he looks at you and says, "I'm not playing.

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Sarah is in Jackson, Mississippi up next. Sarah, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, me and my husband got married two weeks ago and um we are debtree.

Thank you. >> How was the honey? Did you guys go on a trip?

>> Um not yet. We've both been at work um we're both um in the military and so as soon as we get a time where we can take some leave, we're planning on taking a little honeymoon. >> I can hear you smiling through the phone.

>> Well, thank you. We're both still very excited. I love it,

>> dude. I'm so happy. I love love love. I

just think marriage is good. So, good for you. >> So, what's your question? >> Thank you.

>> So, we have $98,000 in cash combined. We

just finished um combining our checking accounts and savings account. And um so we have that 98,000 in cash and currently um we're bringing home $53,000.

and we're trying to figure how figure out how much money we should spend on a vehicle, we really need to upgrade one of our vehicles. So, out of that 98 grand, we're trying to figure out um what is like a good amount to put towards a vehicle.

>> And your annual income is 53,000 a year between the two of you?

>> Yes, currently. But it it um we're expecting it to go up within the next six months. >> Okay. To do you know an exact number or is it just sort of you're not sure yet?

Um, in about six months, we're expecting to start making a h 100red grand between the both of us. We're um anywhere from 100 to 110 grand.

>> Wow, that's awesome. So, you're about to double your income?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And what's the urgency of the purchase? Does this need to happen tomorrow or 6 months from now?

>> Um, it could happen six months from now.

Um, so like currently, um, I'm driving a

2005 Honda Odyssey and it's great for

getting me to and from work and he has a 2014 Dodge Charger and, um, we just know

that, you know, they're both having some issues and we know that it's soon going to cost more to repair the vehicles than they're worth. So, we've just been shopping around.

>> I would like you to know, I just learned about this in Sunday school. Women who marry men with Dodge Chargers get a

express pass to heaven.

>> Oh, my husband's gonna love to hear that >> because generally men with Dodge Chargers are not marryable. But you did it and so congratulations. >> Debtree. Yeah, >> that's impressive. >> I'm just playing. But congratulations.

>> Now, here's here's the parameter for cars. Number one, you pay cash. You're going to do that, right?

>> Yes, we are. Number two, we're going to buy used unless we are net worth millionaires to where we can stomach that major hit on depreciation that cars experience in the first few years.

>> Okay? >> And then number three, you want to make sure that all the things with wheels and motors in your life don't add up to more than half of your annual income. That's why I was digging at your income. And if it's going to go up, well, that changes the numbers drastically because right now you should have no more than $26,000 in cars as far as their their value goes.

But 6 months from now, that number can change because it's a smaller part of your world. So now you could have $50,000 worth of cars sitting in the driveway. So that's where I'm I'm trying to go. Okay, can you wait 6 months to where you can get a nicer to you car cuz you have the money to do it.

It's not going to hurt.

>> Mhm. >> So what are you guys wanting to get? cuz that really basically what is the car you can afford in cash today that you

think would last you at least the next 5 to seven years.

>> Okay. So, we um we found the reason we started asking these questions is we found a um 2001 Ford Bronco with 12,000

miles on it for 32 grand. Um and so it's

a little bit more than that $26,000.

Um, but it's, you know, we've got the 32 grand for it. We just couldn't decide if, you know, it kind of hurts whenever you let go of 32 grand.

>> Yeah. I mean, it will hurt. And that's why I actually like it. Too many people, we've lost friction when it comes to purchases.

And all you see is a $400 payment that the car salesman worked out for you on his paperwork. What you don't see is the interest you're paying, the length of the loan, how you got screwed on the purchase, the extra warranties they threw in there because you're not going to feel it in your payment. And when you write a check for 32 grand, you go, "Okay, let's treat this car differently. We're going to treat this purchase differently.

We're going to go slower." >> What is it about an 01 Bronco?

>> Um, I'm sorry. It's a 2021.

>> I'm sorry. Okay. I heard 2001.

>> 21. Okay. >> Wow. That's an expensive Bronco. It must be >> Yeah. Completely redone. And like And Man, those guys who go redo Broncos, they're they do amazing work. They're awesome. >> Okay. 2021 Bronco. 32 grand. Here's my

catch. I would wait until your income actually goes up and this becomes sort of a celebration of your your newfound income. But I would not buy it today because there's there's just too many variables.

>> Okay. Yes, that that's some good advice cuz like we're both so undecided about it and I told him I was like if we're having this much doubt about it, maybe we should wait. >> God, he won the lottery marrying you.

Yes. Yes. And hey,

George, tell me if I'm wrong here. I find that I get in trouble when I say

I'm gonna I have this much money to go I'm gonna date myself. I'm gonna I have this much money to go spend at the mall.

I got 500 bucks to spend at the mall. I need to get a pair of pants and some shoes and a shirt. I will figure out how

to spend all $500.

Where I've seen success is I have a boundary. I can't go beyond this 500 bucks, but I need to go buy a pair of shoes and some jeans and a shirt and then I only spend a couple hundred bucks. You get what I'm saying? And so I would love for you guys to plan to dream about what kind of cars do we want actually and what cars are going to last us for a while and then over the next 6 months you can keep your eye open for because you might find this exact car in two months for 19 grand or 18 grand.

instead of saying, "Okay, we have this much to spend because you'll figure out when it comes to automobiles especially how to spend exactly 50% of your income." And that's like a stretch goal, right? and you don't have to spend that much. And you two are awesome at driving

used cars. That's that's your life. It looks like your your identity isn't in them. And that's awesome. Um I would I

would sit down and say, "What do we actually want to have together?" And then plan that way.

>> Okay? >> And let me tell you, a $3,000 repair, as much as it would suck on a really old car, is still so much cheaper than $32,000.

And so that's what I want to encourage. Too many people go, "Well, the I had a repairs. We had to get a new car." Didn't want to deal with the repairs, and they just justify it in their minds, thinking this thing's a clunker. So, even if you have to buy yourself some time for the next 6 months until your income goes up and this becomes a no-brainer, uh, it's worth the patience to do it right and go slow, but you're all all things considered, it's all green flags in my book.

>> Okay. Awesome. Well, I'll be sure to tell them and and thank y'all. Y'all definitely brought some clarity to the situation for me. >> Happy to do it. Thank you for your sacrifice and service to both of you.

>> Oh, thank you. We are so glad we get to do it. >> Yeah. And the last thing I'll tell you is you got the Honda, so you're probably going to be driving that till the apocalypse.

>> I do have one rule in my house. The wife should be driving the nicer car. I just I don't like it when the guy drives a nicer car. >> I'm with you.

That's always I've always had a weird thing about that. >> It just feels >> always always. >> So, especially if she's, you know, toting the family around and the guy has like a sweet sports car that's just for him. I'm like, "All right, you're a grown man, >> dude.

1,000% with you." >> The other thing is, and John, people get screwed on this. They go to the dealership and the dealer says, "Hey, you know, for five grand more, we can get you into the brand new one you got on the lot. Look at this. Got these extra features and hey, if you do the financing, we'll knock a,000 bucks off." Now, all of a sudden, you are buying a brand new car that was way more.

They suckered you into the warranty and the paint protection package and the giant dock fee, dealer fee they just throw on there and you're so stareyed. You just want to get out of there after six hours and go drive this thing.

You just lost it. It's now worth what you were about to pay for the used one, right? >> Yeah. New car will depreciate 10% the moment you drive it off the lot. >> And within the first 5 years, 60% on average. >> Yeah. That's pretty wild. >> I love love love buying cars that are 5

years or older because I've of the the depreciation has burnt off so much.

>> Yeah. My last car, one owner, 4,000 m on

it, and I got 26% off. Yeah.

>> Of when I would have bought it brand new. >> Huh. >> So, I All right, I'll deal with that. I I'll take And you know, I could have bought it new.

It would have been fine, but I just like going 25% off feels pretty good. >> And I've got cash, so and I'm not afraid. >> You got to have walkway power. That's the key.

You walk in with a check of here's our budget. Either make it work or we'll go down the street. And eventually, if they want, you know, to feed their family, they're going to go, "All right, we'll take it." Yeah. Don't let them bully you.

Focus on the out the door price. Have your principles and values. Stick to it. And you will make a wise decision when it comes to those cars.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Relle is in Sacramento up next.

Michelle, how are you doing?

>> I'm doing well. How are you two?

>> Fantastic. How can John and I help today?

>> So, my husband and I are considering purchasing a new home. Our house is currently up for sale. We've identified a property that we would like to purchase. With the equity from the sale of our current home, we would have a rather sizable down payment, looking to put down at least 50, if not 60% on a new house. My husband has brought up the idea of getting a first lean helock with

a sweep account versus a conventional mortgage. and he's explained to me that

with this first lock helock with a sweep account, rather than getting into a 15 or a 30-year loan, we would be able to pay off a $400,000 mortgage in eight

years.

>> So, I was wondering

>> No, the speaker came on his phone. I apologize. >> Oh, it's all good. >> Um, >> so I was wondering, it sounds great.

I've never heard of this before. So, I was wondering what you guys thought about that. >> So, this in the in the Tik Tok world is called velocity banking. He may have heard about it on social media.

I don't know where you know this is, but it's a trend where they call it like a mortgage accelerator. And the idea is there's this revolving line of credit almost like a big credit card that's secured by your house, uh, but it's your only loan on the property. So, you're right, it's your first lean and that there is no mortgage there.

So that's what he is wanting to do.

There's still a lot more risk with it, and it sounds sophisticated, and it's more complex, and that doesn't make it better.

>> So, have you guys priced out a traditional 15-year mortgage on this?

We've priced out a 30. We have not priced out a 15.

>> Okay. I would price out a 15 and see if

you guys can afford that payment where it's a quarter of your after tax monthly income. And if not, it tells me the house that you're looking to buy is too much house.

>> So your recommendation would not be to do a first lane.

>> No sweep account.

>> No. And I think the way he found this was probably online. And there's a bunch of people out there who are proponents of this. And again, it's called velocity banking. You can look this up on social media, and it's going to be some slick dude telling you how this is the hack.

Here's the only hack that works. You get a 15-year mortgage, which is going to have a lower interest rate than either of these, and then you pay it off aggressively. Here, here's the thing that if you take out a uh if you have a $400,000 mortgage and y'all put down 50% and you have $200,000 left, there is no

secret loan that makes you not have to pay back $200,000 plus interest.

And so the only true way like so like we

can do a 30-year note, but we can pay it off in eight years. You're still going to pay back that money plus interest.

And so if y'all want to pay it off in eight years, that's amazing. can pay it off in eight years, but that just means every month you're going to be paying more towards the principal balance to pay it off faster.

But there's not like a secret loan you can do that you pay back a hundred grand

to pay off $200,000. You get what I'm saying? >> Like the whole hack is technically you can get a lower interest rate and technically you can take that lower interest rate that you're paying and pay off more principal.

But the same thing applies just paying it faster.

>> Understood. The way he was explaining it to me, and this is kind of where my brain starts to shut down and my eyes glaze over. Um, same girl the finance.

>> He's more of the finance person. He was explaining to me that it gets paid off quicker because they compound the interest daily.

>> Yeah. The way it's calculated, that's where the interest savings come in.

>> But there's still all of the elements of a heliloc, which is a variable interest rate, which means the payment can go up. the banks can uh freeze or call the line which adds more risk to it. It's a revolving line of credit secured by your home. And so all of that just makes me go why are we doing all this? Why all this gyration to maybe save a little bit of interest? I I 100 especially with all the volatility in the world right now like go back 10 years in your life. Can

you have imagined now?

Right? No. None of us could have. And so with all the volatility in the world, the chances of me touching a variable interest rate is zero.

>> Right. >> Right. And so you can get inpecially if you got in today and the banks and suddenly Jerome Pal comes up tomorrow and says, "Hey, because of X, Y, or Z, we're raising interest." Like, man, y'all are on the hook for it.

>> Right. >> And there's far more of these ending up in foreclosure versus a 15-year mortgage. And so that's where I go, okay, why aren't we doing a 15-year mortgage and just putting extra on the principal? It's the exact same thing without all the extra risk and and complexity.

>> I and I'll I'll go one more. I'm putting my baggage out in the world, so this may not be you and your husband, but if you give me a revolving line of credit and suddenly I don't like my floors, I'm going to get new floors because it's not real money. It's just coming out of coming out of the revolving line of credit.

We need to get a new fridge. Let's just monopoly money. Let's just go ahead and do it. It becomes not real money.

>> And yeah, I I'm just going to lock myself in and pay it off. And if I want to accelerate and pay it off faster, I'm going to do that. >> I don't know that we can convince your husband, but I hope we convince you, which I hope puts enough of a wedge between you guys that you don't do this.

>> And here here's my rule of thumb, George. If somebody's explaining something to you know who I learned this from of all people, Ashton Kusher.

>> Not on my bingo card. >> And here's why. He was talking about somebody was asking him once on a panel, why do you seem to have so much success with these companies you invest in as an angel investor? Um, and I forgot all I

think Airbnb and Pop Chips and and Uber.

So, he got in on the ground floor of all these things. And he said >> he I think he dropped out of high school or maybe he finished high school but didn't go to college. >> And he said his one line was, "Explain

this to me like I'm a high school dropout." or explain this to me like I'm a high schooler. And if they couldn't do it, I didn't invest. And so for me, when

somebody's trying to explain to me a thing we're getting into, and hey, Deloney, I want you to invest in this thing. If my eyes start glazing over that, I'm out. If you can't explain it to me, very simple, here's why. Here's the terms, here's the payout, or here's the risk we're all going to take together.

If you can't do that in a sentence or two, I'm I don't want to participate in it. >> Yeah. >> Because because it's not it's not worth all the complexity. Because now the more variables, the more fragile the whole system is and the more dependent it is on other people to do what they said they're going to do and that what those other people said they were going to I'm out.

I'm out. It's too fragile. >> Yeah.

>> I've never heard of someone saying, "Yeah, the way I paid off my house early was I did velocity banking." >> I know zero people who have told me that that line. >> There's a lot of people talking about it, though. And so that tells me something. It's it gets the clicks and the views, but it doesn't work in reality.

And you don't see the people who foreclose on their home. They're not sharing that on Instagram. They're only sharing the wins.

And we always tell people, don't invest in anything you don't understand. The same applies to crazy mortgage hacks.

Here's a hack. Get as small of a loan as possible on as short of a term as possible and pay extra towards it.

>> I can understand that. I could explain that to my toddler and she'll get it.

>> There you go. So, the real question is, how are you going to approach this with your husband in a way where you come to a compromise? And I hope that compromises go with a thing that you both understand that you both can handle.

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Today's question comes from Carlos in Texas. He says, "My pre-teen son has his own YouTube channel and he's on pace to earn over 5,000 bucks a month soon.

Should he be tithing on this income? How much should I encourage him to save or invest versus spend? He understands taxes, so we've got that part down. Left to his own devices, of course. He's a pre-teen kid. He would buy all the Legos in the world." >> Yes. >> Of course. >> This is fantastic. That means he's a good regular pre-teen kid and he's an

adult in his life to help steward

steward how he spends his money.

>> Yeah. So he's making I mean if he's on pace to do five grand a month soon that's 60 grand a year that a pre-teen is making, >> right? >> Which tells me he's what 11 or 12 >> possibly. >> That's pretty nuts. >> That's that's great. So like right off the top we can just do the math real quick. Um, some people, and I'm assuming

tithing, it means you're you're a person of faith. And so tithing, some people

tithe off the top line, meaning you would tithe at 10%, 6,000 bucks a year if you're making 60. Some people tithe on after taxes are gone. What do I what am I bringing home that I can spend?

They tithe off that. Every one of those things is a matter of you and your spirit. But I do, George, think it's important to teach kids. Um, we save a

piece of our money, we give away a piece of our money. Um, even if you're not a person of faith, generosity has all I mean, it's wired into us. It's it's part of our psychological and emotional and spiritual health. And you have money to spend. And George, I like the idea with

a pre-teen kid, um, when it comes to spending. So after you've saved a chunk of money, after you've given a chunk of money, I like to let young kids, my kids

kind of buy what they want to buy because they that's the way they learn, oh, I wish I had that hundred bucks instead of that completed Lego set. Or maybe they get that completed Lego set and it's great. And they learn what they like and don't like. But man, watching my 10-year-old navigate, I got $50 and I

want to go buy a thing. Are you sure?

Yeah, I really want to buy it. And then the next time she wants to, she earned saves up some money, she wants to buy something, then we could say, "Hey, where's that thing you bought last month or two months ago or three months ago?" Oh, yeah. Do you really want that? No, I don't want that. >> They sort of learn. So, they learn >> temporary effects of stuff.

>> Yeah. Telling a pre-teen, you don't really want those Legos. They're like, "Yeah, I do." And so, I like letting them when they have their spend money, kind of let them buy what they want to buy. Um, unless obviously not not grant

audio or something, but like within your family's values, but I like them to learn that lesson, but they should be saving some, they should be giving some,

and that's that's going to be a personal decision. >> Yeah. And at this age, it's less about, you know, you got to be legalistic percentages. It's more about, hey, are you kind of budgeting this money like a business, like a profit and loss statement?

So, I would have him, you know, jump on every dollar, make a free account, and put his 5,000 there and say, all right, I'm going to give 10% 500 to the tithe. I want to invest a thousand before I ever get to enjoy the money.

Invest a thousand bucks. Maybe you save 2,000 bucks. He's probably has some goals to like get a car one day when he's 16. And I would spend a,000 bucks.

I feel like it's a reasonable amount out of five grand for a kid with no expenses. Let him do it. Let him see what's actually worth putting his money into and what's not and even reinvesting into the business. >> Yeah.

>> Maybe you want to upgrade equipment. >> That's right. There you go. And I for a young kid, especially I think for adults too, but for a young kid, I think it would be valuable.

Let's say he's 12 to say how much if if you make 60 grand, which by the way, if you're living off YouTube, they change their algorithm every other week. And so, best of luck to you. But college, let would we want to put $150,000 in a college fund? So, let's reverse engineer that by month.

What would we need to start saving now that would get us that amount of money? you want a car when you're 16. You're 12 now. So that's four years away.

Let's say we want $20,000 for a car. What would we need to start saving now? So creating long-term syncing funds will teach him at a young age like, okay, if I want something big like college, like a house, like a car, I got to start planning now for those things when I get there.

>> like as soon as that check hits his account, 30% goes into a savings account earmarked for taxes. >> Yes. If he learns that now, he's never going to be calling in saying, "I owe the IRS 150 grand because I didn't realize I owe taxes on this money." That's adults calling the show doing that. So, if 12-year-old can figure this out, >> I think I heard Dave say this once that one of the greatest tricks the government ever pulled was the automatic tax deduction that if every American had to write a check every month for their taxes at the tax office and hand over a check or cash, >> we'd be paying a lot more attention to what the government spends, right?

>> We'd be throwing some tea in the harbor again, I Correct.

start making some money and saying, "Oh, you you made 5,000 bucks this month.

2400 bucks, not yours." Like, why not?

Well, you know, >> ouch. >> We got to keep these pet projects going.

>> That's a great problem to have. And again, we don't know how long this is going to last. So enjoy the ride while it lasts and make sure that he, you know, keeps his head on straight and watches his mental health cuz YouTube is a can be a wild place. All right, John is in Orlando up next. John, welcome to the show. >> Hey, thanks for having me, guys. How you doing? >> We're doing great. What's your question today? >> Okay, so I'm 52. Um, I have a 9-year-old

son I have 5050 custody of. I make about 65,000 a year. 25% of that is being

garnished. Um, and that'll be going on for another about year and a half. I have an additional 25,000 in IRS debt and 25,000 in credit

card debt. Um, I have just come upon and

found these trading cards, baseball cards that I had put away and they are

now worth a lot of money. Um, they're liquid up to about I'd say over 200,000.

>> Wow. I don't. Yeah, they're like show Otani rookie cards that are signed. Um I

don't have any savings. Um it's a long

The divorce was bad. Um >> yeah, you based on what you just told us, you went through a pretty rough season, huh?

>> Yes, it was really bad. I lost my dad. I lost my job of 12 years. Then I got divorced. I b I bought it my son was born in in um I don't want to give the exact date but in in in

December. I lost my job the following January. I bought my first house 6 months before that that we moved into.

>> Wow. >> And then I got divorced two years later.

It was just a uh I lost my dad um nine

months before my son 10 months before my son was born. >> So it it was a bad time. Um um so anyway

though um made bad choices. The 401k was emptied out when I lost my job. I stayed at the best thing that happened was I stayed at home with my son for 9 months. Um and that was a great time. But I we went through my 401k at that time. Um and due

to that and because I was in a different state at that time, they wanted they wanted the taxes on uh that money um

from the 401k distribution that was early and I had also inherited some money from my dad which they wanted from that too. Um unfortunately I wasn't in

Florida at the time or else I would have been fined from what I've learned. So anyway, what I want to ask is I have

this debt. I have these cards that are probably going to be even worth more money down the line, but I have this debt now and I want to leave something for my son. Um,

and I can't just keep living and pay the check right now cuz it's I'm like just at the end of it. I just can't do it anymore. >> Yeah. >> So, >> I'll tell you this, John.

I'm going to solve for peace in the present. Not go, man, what what could I have if I hung on to him for five more years? I'm paying off the debt. All of it.

That's 50K. I'm setting up an emergency fund for myself of six months of expenses.

>> Yeah, my work does offer a 4% match,

which I haven't signed up for yet because I didn't know if I was going to go bankrupt before I realized what I had. >> Not anymore. This is your fresh start, man. I would pay off the debt. They they offer the the the 401k pre-tax or the IR Roth IRA up to 4%. You do the Roth IRA.

>> I mean, I love the after tax option cuz then it's going to grow taxree for the rest of your life. And so, I would definitely pay off the debt, get the emergency fund, get the 4% at least fund

a Roth IRA, and uh if you hang on the line, I'll send you my book, Breaking Free from Broker, to walk you through that whole plan. But I would sell these cards to give yourself a fresh start.

>> And never look up their potential future

value again. Sell them and be done.

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You can compare agent profiles, interview them, and choose the right one to work with. You can find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free at ramseyolutions.com/agent or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. Jordan is in Miami up next. Jordan, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Thank you. >> Sure. How can we help today?

Hey, I'm just trying to figure out how I get out of this momentum of just wanting

to keep going. Um,

just live my life in general. I'm at like a point I'm at like a breaking point in my life where I'm currently stuck in the city I'm at with the job I just I'm not good at and I'm 3,000 miles

away from home. So, it's kind of been a little hard for me. >> Yeah. Hey, do me a huge favor. talk right into the phone, brother. Um, why why are you stuck in Miami?

>> Um, so I recently bought a car from a

dealership that they claimed had no

problems up in Idaho and I had a friend

who does doortodoor sales and he's like, "Hey, let's do some sales with me." I'm like, "You know what's going to hurt doing that?" I reached Nebraska. My car

has transmission problems. I take it to

Subaru. They can't buy it off of me. So, I had to leave it in storage unit, fly out down here with the rest of the money I had.

And now I'm just struggling. It's with sales. I just I'm just lost of what I

need to do. Plus, I'm in debt. So, >> but I mean, when you say stuck,

if if >> can you legally move tomorrow?

>> Yeah. Could Could you get a bus pass or could you like just suck it up and call your parents and say, "I need a bus pass home and go home." >> I don't have parents.

>> Okay.

Could you work really hard for the next 30 days and get a bus pass and go home and get out of this mess?

>> That's that's the issue. It's like I feel like every everything I do like I

for the past week I've been I've been busting my butt. I've been out there 10,

12 hours a day trying to make these sales, >> doing doortodoor sales.

>> Yes, sir. >> What are you selling?

>> Pest control.

>> Are you making money doing it? What's your average week or month look like?

>> Um, so the average week is around 4,000.

That shifts in like um sale commission, which is only like $1,000 personally. >> Four grand a week. um

for um like this type of market. It's

it's based off the commission. So, we've sell $1,000, but that's for the company.

>> Okay. What are you taking home, though?

What ends up in your bank account at the end of the week? >> 1,000 bucks a week.

>> A little less, probably like 600.

>> So, you're making about $2,400 take-home pay doing this?

>> Yes. Yes.

>> Okay. And that's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future. I mean, this is you busting it.

>> Yeah. >> For 600 a week.

What's stopping you from going to find a different job in Miami?

>> Um, well, the way they have it around here is there's a five, it's like a hotel room with three rooms and it's just a rent problem and I don't have if I tell them like, hey, I need to find a different job. I don't know if they're going to allow me to stay. So it's either >> So you're living rent free as part of the deal.

>> No, it's 800 a month.

>> So you could find a couple of roommates and go elsewhere. >> Yeah, this is of servantthood, man.

>> Right. >> I don't think you're as stuck as you think you are. I think you're just depressed. >> Yeah.

>> And you don't have the energy to get unstuck, >> right? >> Where's your parents, brother?

What happened to him? Um, >> they passed away. >> When did they pass away?

>> Uh, last year. >> Okay.

Do you have siblings?

>> Um, they also passed away.

>> So, you lost everybody in your family?

>> Was a hit and run with a drunk guy and everybody's in my truck.

>> Man, I'm so sorry, brother.

>> You got any friends in the area?

Uh, I'm with my best friend. He's the one who's kind of like because I I've been working in Idaho um just as like as

a manufacturing company doing um like AR

triggers just for a you know 16 hour and

it was miserable. And he was like, "Dude, we got to get you out. We got to you know get some life back into you." And I was starting to believe him because it's Miami. I mean, who doesn't have fun in Miami?

And I was just like, "Yeah, man. Let's do it. Whatever." And then as life can't get worse, this dealership screwed me over with my dream car that I saved up a lot to buy.

>> What do you owe on the car?

>> 21,000. >> And what's it worth?

>> About 25.

>> Is that in its current condition, it's worth 25?

>> No. Oh, it's currently worth like eight grand because there's transmission problems.

>> And you can't afford a new transmission, obviously.

>> No. And what other debt do you have?

>> In a storage unit in Nebraska.

>> What other debts do you have?

>> I have a personal loan for about three

grand. I was hoping to use that to kind

of just get me a little push forward.

while I'm in Miami.

Um, I mean, so far it's not it's not

going horrible. I just need to find a way to get myself out of this mentality where I'm not good enough to or where I feel like I'm not trying enough to make these sales or keep going.

>> Bro, I I know you feel like you're at the bottom right now, but I'm telling you right now, I've been doing this for my whole career. you it's you had a

massive loss in your life and you got to go sit down with somebody and I know you can say you don't have time >> or you don't even have the resources. I I'll give you six months free with Better Help, but I think you're going to need some in-person sitting with somebody to metabolize the amount of grief and loss you've you've experienced in the last year.

>> And I'm just telling you, therapy changed my life. I'm still here because of it and it's worth it and you're worth it. But you got to go sit down and talk to somebody. You're not going to be able to power through this because there's nothing to power through,

>> right? It's kind of like treading through mud with >> That's right. >> That's right. And another loan's not going to get it. A dream car is not going to get it. >> Even another job isn't going to heal it.

>> Yeah. 16 hours. Another job might give you some margin.

It might keep you from feeling like you live in a failure factory. Right. I couldn't do I I would be terrible at door to door salesman. I would do it if that's the only way I could feed my family, but I'd be terrible at it. Um I

don't want you doing something that you're terrible at that is just compounding this vision of yourself in the mirror.

>> Yeah. And it's like I do have a dream. I want to help people. Like I want to like I've I've always talked to my parents about this because they've always noticed it about me. I want to like I want to help people especially literally the situation I'm in right now. Like that's what I want to do. I want to, you know, be able to tell my story or Yeah.,

>> you know, help them. I want to be in psychology. Um, >> that's awesome. But listen, you you can't give what you don't have, >> right? >> And so the best therapists I know as

friends and colleagues, myself, the people who are best at helping others have had their own journey getting the help they needed.

>> Right. >> Right. And it's you just opening your hands up saying, "Okay, I've tried a new car. I've tried a new job. I've tried a new state. I've tried a new location.

Um, it's time for me to get with a professional and face this head on."

>> Right.

But I would tell you, I don't think you're broke. I think your body is trying to take care of you, man. And it's just saying, "Hey, we got a lot to metabolize and a lot to process and a lot to walk through." It's so so much, brother.

>> Right. >> Okay. So hang on the line here. I'm going to hook you up with um 6 months of BetterHel licensed counseling so you can get started today. You can reach out to them today. Um and then hopefully they can connect you with some resources in your local area. Um >> I'd also like to get them a copy of your book, John. >> I'll send you an on anxious life. I'll send you the audio book and the regular book. Um maybe you can listen to it while you're walking um door to door.

But it's not going to be the thing that fixes you in this moment. I don't think you're broke. I don't think you need fixing. I think you need healing. And I think you need somebody to sit with you for for a season. Um, but man, we're

we're praying for you and we'll be walking along. We'll give you the resources we got. We'll send you every dollar, too, to get you get help you get your money screwed on straight. But, um, man, for as hard as you're working for 600 bucks a month, maybe a fast food job or something would help.

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Sean is in Daytona Beach up next. Sean, welcome to the show.

Hi, >> thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> All right. So, um I'm I'm a merchant marine. A merchant marine for about 20 years.

>> Hey, Rich. Uh do me a huge favor, Sean.

Talk it talk directly into the phone for me. >> Sure. >> There you go. >> I am a merchant mariner. I've been one

for about 20 years now.

>> Awesome. >> Um I I have multiple jobs, but uh my

primary is in the merchant marine. My other is uh I'm an over the road trucker and I do construction and that sort of deal too. But um basically what ended up

happening to me was I was married for 10 years and I had moved up pretty high on

the ships. I was doing about 110,000 a

year for myself and then my um ex-wife

was doing an additional maybe 50 or so.

So we had the bills associated with

$160,000 a year household.

Um during COVID I got forced to step

away from my job because I didn't get vaccines because I didn't trust it and

um also I wanted to retire to be home

with my young child.

Um so basically I forcibly retired with

about $100,000 in the bank. Um, and then

we got hit by a hurricane and um, I had

to do a second mortgage on the home from the SBA to, you know, pay for the roof,

the fence, and everything that got destroyed. And then we got talked into the solar panels. And, uh, while I was

home, I was working 10 jobs and making about an eighth of what I was making on the shed. So, my ex-wife uh decided that

because, and this is what she said to my face, because I was making less than her, she lost all respect for me as a man. And then she cheated on me with um someone who made way more. And yeah. Um,

so the divorce happens just settled um

the middle of last year and I went back

to the ship because I was not mentally

healthy and in order to keep my kid through the divorce, I basically had to swallow all of the bills for $150,000 a year

household. And by stepping away, I lost my promoted

position. So now I've gone from about 110 a year personally down to about 74.

Um so I have about $250,000

worth of debt and

um almost all of it is in the household.

Um but I I'm just so stressed.

>> Yeah. All right. So how can we you've

been through a lot. Um, how can we help?

>> Well, I I just think I might need

somebody to tell me that my my fiveyear

plan is somewhat workable and that I'm not an idiot. But it's >> fiveyear plan to what? >> What's the goal for you?

>> Um, to be able to actually retire and

actually go see my son.

>> How old are you?

and he's six, but he is barely me in the

past. I'm 37.

>> Okay. Why do you need to retire in 5 years or else? Where did that come from?

>> Well, I don't need to. That's kind of what I would like to do. At least retire from this career and do something.

>> When you say retire, you mean you have enough assets that replace your income to cover your bills and lifestyle.

Correct. By by retire I mean um be able

to shift um into a career where I can

remain in the area of my home.

>> Got it. So you just want like an encore career that keeps you local.

>> Right. I mean >> currently I'm an over the road trucker and a merchant mariner. Okay. Kind of.

>> Here's the thing. I I I again I know these these conversations are really compressed and so >> what I'm hearing is and none of your plan is going to work unless you make this change. Okay?

>> Right? You have to take ownership of all the

choices you've made because the way you told that story,

other than your wife being like a horrific human, right?

Other than that, every choice you made from I had to get a second mortgage. I got talked into the solar panels even though I had 100 grand in the bank. I had to do this. I had to do that. I chose like I want you to take ownership

of I made some choices that have landed

me here or I made some choices that gave me no margin and then boom, I got hit

with a literal hurricane and a hurricane inside my marriage and I had no cushion

because I made some choices.

And when you take that level of ownership, it's it it this is all neuroscience, brother. It puts you back in the driver's seat of your own life

and it begins to >> I'm fully aware that I made some mistakes here. >> Okay. Awesome. So, I I'm hardressed to

believe that a guy that works as hard as you do that has the skill set you have

could not find a $75,000 a year construction job or a building job in your local community. Am I crazy?

>> Uh, no. you're actually that that doesn't

work. I have looked there's very few jobs in my area that would pay that

without forcing me to go get an entirely different uh skill set.

>> Okay. >> You have like seven skill sets. Get an eighth one. >> Yeah. >> What's stopping you? >> That that's what I'm saying. Like the picture you had of your life, it's over now. It's ended.

>> And so the question before you, do you want to keep do living a life where you won't see your kid till you're 11? And I'm not I'm not judging that. I just want you to take ownership of this is the choice I'm making or I'm gonna sell this house and get a one-bedroom apartment because this dream is over.

And >> well, I didn't really get to that part, but uh currently the house is on the market. >> Okay, great. >> Um it it should sell somewhere between

215,000 to 2130,000, which would give me

um roughly about 10 to 15,000 cash in

hand. >> Amazing. Is that after you pay off the solar, pay off the second mortgage?

>> Yes. >> Awesome. >> Okay, great. >> Amazing. >> So, that gets us >> I'm proud of you for that. >> That gets rid of a large majority of the debt. What other debts are there in this 250K?

>> Oh, um I just managed to pay off $25,000

worth of credit debt while I've been out here. >> Amazing. That's awesome.

>> So, I've got an additional $5,800 worth of credit card debt. Uh my ex-wife's car

loan is still in my name. Um but she

pays on that thankfully. Um but

basically um what I'm seeing for my

future here is I need to be a merchant

marine because it uh pays for my child's health insurance free of charge. Nothing.

>> Got it. So that saves me.

>> I I personally I I personally like you

just laid out a map and I'm I'm hearing a man stand up and get in the driver's seat of his own life. I'm going to sell this house and um I'm going to have 15 grand in the bank and I'm going to pay off this $1,500 credit card. I'm going to owe nobody anything. And then dude,

if you go make $50,000 as a school teacher, it will come with health insurance. Personally, I'm going to I

would choose less money and more time with my kid than I would never see my

kid for this quote unquote free health care. That free healthcare is coming at a major cost to your relationship with your son, to your psychological well-being, to your overall financial well-being. And so, you make some sacrifices like you're making right now.

I'm going to be a one-bedroom apartment dad right now. That's the world. That's the cards I've got. and I'm going to be a teacher and on the weekends I'm going to drive trucks and in the evening I'm going to repair I don't know people's front porches or something because you've got that skill set. I'm going to do what I got to do to scratch and claw.

I'm telling you, man, that kind of hard work gets rewarded over time, but you're

you're it's again, it's you're making some amazing sacrifices. And also, another foot is still trapped in this.

Well, I guess I got to and dude, I've got personal family and friends who are locked into a forever bluecollar life

that's killing them because I get a good deal on health insurance or whatever. And that's just not a trade.

>> This 160 grand lifestyle, your income got cut in half. You have a $74,000 lifestyle now. And so you're going to have to make changes to your life, your budget, your career to have this life you want. We're rooting for you. We think you have more agency than you think. >> Yeah. And you're doing it. You're doing it.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney taking your calls at88255225.

Carson is in San Antonio up next. What's going on Carson?

>> Hi, thank you for answering my call.

>> Sure. >> Um uh so I learned about Dave Ramsey last year and I've been following this debt snowball. Uh I paid off over $40,000 of credit cards, um cars, and wedding debt uh last year. But >> congratulations, man. >> Oh, thank you. >> Just by that.

>> Thank you. I only have two debt left, but uh these are really big. So, I have $180,000 of student loans and also $180,000 of mortgage. Uh they're both at 5.875%.

So, it's a bit of a marathon to pay these off, but um I did learn that my

family has a history of cancers like lung cancer, thyroid cancer. Uh my dad

actually went from seeing oncologist telling him that he doesn't have cancer to battling stage four uh lung and brain cancer a year later. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> It's okay. Uh but and also his cancer was all genetics. So um I guess my question is I'm a little bit scared or I guess I'm scared to death that something might happen to me before I finish this marathon, right? And I do want to leave something for my uh wife and daughter.

Um, I know Dave Ramsey wants uh he says

to like pay off all the debt besides the mortgage first. I just wanted to know uh because the federal student loans would potentially die with me if something happens to me. Uh so I just wanted to see if it's reasonable for me to uh

potentially pay off um my mortgage first

before my student loans.

>> Wow, that's actually you know what that's a good question. I will celebrate

that question. That's a that's a that's a interesting dilemma that you find yourself in, especially because the numbers are so >> like they're they're exact, right?

Interest rates, dollar amounts, exact.

Um, how much do you make a year?

>> I make $130,000.

Okay. >> Um, yeah, as a pharmacist.

>> Yeah. And how old are you?

>> I'm 28. >> Okay. What ages um did your family get diagnosed?

So, my dad got diagnosed when he was 50,

but I also have other family members that got diagnosed a lot sooner, like in their 40s and so on. >> Okay. Cuz my my hope and prayer is that you never get diagnosed, but also that if there was if this was to happen, this is a a decade or two or three from now.

>> And therefore, your student loans will be paid off if you stay at the pace you're you're going for. Would the student loans be paid off in four years?

>> Yeah, I hope so. I try my best here.

>> And then the mortgage is another 3 to four years as your income's probably up by then. >> Yes. >> So we're talking about seven years. You're completely debtree house and everything >> by 35.

>> So that's the kind of goals I would be setting um versus which one should I pay

off? I still feel like the debt snowball because of you probably have multiple student loans, right? It's not one giant one. >> Yes, that's correct. So freeing up those payments along the way makes me I'm I'm still team student loans, but I totally think your logic here is justified to to grapple with it. I assume you don't have term life insurance. Did you try or you did you not qualify?

>> Uh no, I haven't tried that yet. I actually just heard about that not too long ago. I was looking into >> today. Today >> go to xander.com and apply and be honest

with you know your health situation. And we're not asking to commit fraud here, but if you can get term life insurance, you have solved the problem of what happens if something happened to me? How would my wife pay the mortgage? Boom.

Problem solved. 10 to 12 times your income and term life insurance on a 15, 20 year policy will do the trick.

>> Yeah. It just uh it just makes me feel like I it gives my life a little bit of meaning if I were to like uh have left something behind, you know. >> Did Did your Did your dad pass away?

>> Uh not yet. He's still battling back cancer right now. >> So, I want you to remember what I'm about to say for the rest of your life. Okay. >> Okay. >> Are you a good husband?

>> I try to. >> Are you a good dad? >> I try my best to. Yes.

>> Then you've left something amazing.

>> Uh, thank you. >> And we have a uh what, no pun intended,

but we have a cancer in our culture, which is we ask somebody, "What are you worth?" And we answer that with a number. And I think that's insane.

>> It would be it would be amazing

to be 35, 38 and owe nobody anything and

have a paid for house for your family.

That would be awesome.

>> And the truth is you dug a $180,000 hole

for your family in pharmacy school. So I think you have a responsibility to knock that out.

>> Okay. >> Also, this is me playing devil's advocate all across the board. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> I also don't trust in 10 years that that's still going to be the case. At some point, the United States is going to have to deal with a $2 trillion hole that is student loans and they're going to have to deal with their 30 or 40 trillion deficit.

It would not surprise me in the least.

They've already made bank uh student loans not dischargeable by bankruptcy.

It would not surprise me if they stopped them dead on I mean that that they go away if you pass away.

Okay, that I have never even heard of that being a possibility. But here's what I'm trying to get you to do.

Projecting 10 years out on what might happen is is a good idea. But to drag 10 years

from now the crisis that might exist in 10 years and try to solve it in today, that is what we call that anxiety.

Right? And so the fact that you're a good husband, the fact that you're a good dad, you've been burning through this debt, getting your family taken care of, and you're on a trajectory in 7 to 10 years to owe nobody anything, including your home. That is a huge, huge win. And you have some signals that

you're going to pay attention to. So, you're going to be one of those guys like me that goes and gets cancer screenings every year. I'm going to pay extra close attention to my blood work and I'm watching the AI advancements on cancer detection close very closely and they're getting astonishingly good at catching stuff really really early. So I can imagine a world in 3 years and four years where you're able to know in 10

years and 15 years I've already got signs that we weren't able to detect.

Now, all that to say is if you're going to imagine the worst case scenario in 10 years, the honest thing is to also imagine the best case scenario and then

make informed choices in the present. Do you get what I'm saying?

>> Yes. Yes. >> And so, man, recognizing I have a

heightened risk of cancer because of the the set of genes that I got, that is you

being honest with reality and I'm going to take every responsible measure I can.

also not counting on the government to do a thing in 10 years. That's two elections from now, brother.

You tell me, right? Who knows, right?

So, I'm going to see that I I'm not going to rely on that either.

>> And I'm going to get really good life insurance with George and I both have with Xander. I was with Xander before I started working at Ramsay because I trust him, right? And I'm going to work really hard and get this stuff knocked out.

Okay. So, I suppose I will pay my student loans first. I >> I would. And here's here's one other variable.

>> What happens if and again, I'm I'm just being ridiculous now, but what happens if your pharmacy closes or sells?

>> If you have to move to Nebraska to do pharmacy there, the beauty of a pharmacy degree is you can do it anywhere, >> but that student loan's going to travel with you. Your mortgage won't, >> right? And so let's take care of the thing that's going to follow me around the longest and let's knock that sucker out and then let's get our house taken care of. But man, really great insightful question.

So your homework, one thing you do right right as soon as we're done with this call, go to xander.com. You're looking at one one and a half million in a term life policy, 20 to 25 years.

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Up next, we've got Courtney in Miami.

Courtney, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can John and I help?

>> Yeah, so I I have a question, I guess,

about what household contribution amount

should be. Um, so I've worked really hard. I paid off my student loans. I

bought a car in cash. I bought a house.

And I paid off the house. >> Whoa. >> Um, yeah. So, I' I've worked really hard. >> Congratulations. >> That's an understatement. >> I can't wait for the other side of this question. >> Oh gosh. Okay. Yeah. So, I guess the question is I am engaged. Um, there are

no plans right now for a wedding. We've

been together nine years, but we're we are together and committed to each other. Um, and I guess the question is

I've I've saved up enough to move to a more desirable area and I can buy that

new place in cash as well. And so what

is how how do you divide the bills like where you know yes you split utilities

and I know this is a weird situation like how what's the contribution you know obviously he he doesn't live with me for free but what what is that number and we just I I could use some help.

>> You're not going to like the help that we give you. >> So he's been living with you this whole time essentially.

>> Yes, we've been living together. How does it work now?

>> Uh, so he basically pays essentially

rent. He doesn't like the word rent, but you know, we split the utilities and the bills and it's he pays about, you know, splitting the utilities and then like $500, but we're moving to a much better

area. Uh, obviously, you know, the house is much more even though I'm paying for it. So, so I don't know how to divide it. >> Here's the thing. I have spent the last two years of my life down a dark dark

rabbit hole studying

uh romantic relationships. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> As long as you're his his uh landlord

>> Mhm. >> and as long as you're his bank, there is always going to be inequality in your romantic relationship.

>> Okay. >> There's no way around that.

Mhm. >> Even you saying he doesn't like the word rent. Of course not. Because it's a

daily reminder that y'all are unequally yolked.

>> And the more you talk about how hard

you've worked, you've been with him for a decade. So you you leading the question with how hard you've worked >> infers to two just random dudes you're calling he hasn't worked that hard.

>> Which is not the case.

>> I know. I know. But it's it's it's the posture with which you're entering into this. >> And so the reason that we tell everybody to get married is twofold. One, >> your individual stuff becomes y'all's stuff. And if you're not ready to do that, then you're then the romantic relationship you think you have is not what you think it is >> after nine freaking years. The other reason we tell people to get married besides the spiritual stuff like take the Sunday school stuff and move it aside is because there is a legal

separation baked into that. Meaning there is a contract you all sign.

>> There's some financial protection >> and you're protected.

And so I I I can't in good faith tell you to do this thing when I know the data and this is secular psychological data. I mean, economic data says if y'all get married and your stuff and his stuff becomes y'all's stuff, the it it's it ROIs in a spectacular way

because you have two people hanging on to the same anchor point and allows two people to take bigger swings at life with um with margin. But as long as he's

paying you rent and he's vinmoing you for the Arby's meal y'all split last night, it's always going to be yours and mine >> and making a romantic relationship work that way long term. Even Even the data says that cohabitating couples who live together over a long period of time, they don't do as well health-wise, financial wise, happiness-wise as those that say, "I'm all my chips are on the table. I'm all in." >> Yeah. And if you have hesitancy to go allin with him, >> I that's a huge flashing red sign for

me. Red flag as the as the kids say.

>> Okay. >> In your own words, why haven't you guys gotten married? Forget a wedding and all that. >> Well, yeah. So, there's I guess a past

with him. So, he was married before it didn't go well. Um there's some

financial stuff on his end. uh past addiction issues that I'm not I'm not ready to tie to.

>> Okay. >> And I don't know if I ever will be.

>> Okay. Then you need to have that conversation with them.

>> Cuz otherwise I mean I don't I'm trying not to be ugly, right? I'm trying to like be I'm know that I'm on your side. >> We are team Courtney. >> But but y'all are playing house, right?

>> Yeah. And and he knows, let me tell you, he knows in his nervous system that you're not allin.

>> Mhm. >> And that makes you more his mom than his than his fiance. That makes you more his landlord, addiction specialist than his wife. >> Yeah. >> And I don't want to blame you for that. I want you to trust your gut, but I want you to trust your gut all the way in either direction. You get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's hard. But yes, >> it's real hard. Tell me, push back on me. Am I wrong?

>> No. No.

Yeah. No, you're right. I just I I think I'm thinking of it as like we are we are together but separate to an extent.

>> You have a you have a you have a great roommate with benefits.

>> I I don't think you should make this move until you've solved this piece.

>> Yeah. 100%.

And I'll tell you, I think you're worth being in love with somebody that you can go all in on. And honestly, I think he's worth that, too.

>> Yeah. >> And if you know right now, I'm never going to fully get there with him based on his past, based on the things that flare up now. He deserves that honesty

>> as opposed to a Vinmo reminder. You owe me $500 every month.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I guess this is a Yeah.

And I was I was approaching it of like, what's the dollar amount? We we disagree on the dollar amount. >> Yeah, I I call that >> that's the least of your problems. >> Yeah, I call those romantic proxy wars.

That's not the real issue.

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> Okay. Thank you. I Yeah.

>> And financially speaking, can George and I just both celebrate you? Amazing job.

>> Thank you. >> To do all this on your own is really impressive. >> Yeah. >> How old are you? >> Thank you. I'm 39.

>> Awesome. Well, please also don't have the sunk cost fallacy of, well, it's been 9 years. Like, this is all I know.

I basically grew up with this and now I just got to stay in it because it's easy and comfortable, which I'm sure it is.

And I'm sure he's a great guy.

>> But, >> yeah, absolutely. >> You guys both deserve if you're going to live another 50 years, let's do it with some intentionality and some commitment and build wealth together instead of having this, yeah, we're together, but not fully. I just don't think that's that that's a way to live life. Mhm.

>> And so I would solve for that before making the move. And I hope that if you do make the move, you guys are married on paper at the courthouse. You combine finances. There's >> somebody in my yard once.

They came over and my my daughter was like the flower girl. I mean, you you don't have to have a And we did it for free. Like you don't My manager took the photos. Like you don't have to do a big elaborate thing, right?

But there is legal protection there. And if there's a red flag you can't move past, it's okay to call that out and say, "Hey, it's been a great run of a decade, but I think we both deserve somebody that we can fully commit to." >> Yeah. Okay.

>> to give you the rent amount for.

>> I wish I could have been like, "Well, it should be 60% versus 40% based on the numerical." >> Man, we are funers.com today, George.

>> Oh, man. And I I mean, I am rooting for Courtney. >> So hard. I like Courtney as a person and

I want to see her win and I'm so proud of her. And the truth is she's proven to herself that she can build wealth regardless of the relationship and what's on the other side. But man, it's just so much more fun to do it with a true partner. >> A ride or die, dude.

Yeah. >> A ride or die. This is our money. This is our life.

This is our goals instead of Yeah. Well, we don't combine cuz I don't trust him to accomplish this financial goal that I have. >> Yeah. I trust you enough to live here and not murder me.

I trust you enough to fill in the blank, but I don't trust you to my checking account. >> All of me. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Oh, man. This is This is not one conversation. This is going to be a series of conversations, maybe even some counseling to get to the root of this, get to the fork in the road. >> Honestly, Courtney was so honest and and I mean, that's that's a brave thing she said. Like, I don't know that we need to get to the root. I think she's at the root. The hard part is am I going to take that next honest?

>> So scary. It's just like free falling into this next chapter. But you're worth it, Courtney. Thanks for the call.

Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories.

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John is in New York City. Up next, John, what's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Great. How are you?

>> I'm okay. Um, I'm calling with not the

most concerning financial issue, but something I'm torn about.

>> I could use a first world problem right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm trying to decide if I should keep my pet insurance for my cat. the uh the monthly

premiums are going up from $70 to $105 a

month. >> Whoa. >> And uh I know I uh

>> you know I mean she's about 10 years old now. I got the insurance right when I got her and it was like relatively cheap. It was low. It's been steadily going up and you know last year when it went up to 70 that was that was a big jump. It went from maybe like 45 to 70 bucks and now it's 105.

>> Yeah. That's pricing in the pet insurance world.

>> Yeah. And you know, I've been paying this for years. And >> have you calculated how much you've paid out over the years?

>> I No. >> Between out-of- pocket cost plus the insurance. I'm guessing you'd throw up if you did.

>> I probably would.

I probably would. I' I've actually never the insurance. >> Yeah, exactly. >> You've never used it.

I I would love for you just for your own

emotional well-being just to map out how

for the last 10 years how much you've spent on pet insurance and what would

have to happen to a pet

to justify that cost.

>> Yeah. >> And by the way, George and I are split on this. We disagree on this. And so,

but I I like to just look at it just the math. And I know like I love my dogs a lot a lot. A lot. But just looking at

the math, does it play out?

>> Right. Right.

>> Or let me ask you another question. How much would you spend?

Like there's probably going to be a max, right? Is it 3,000 or 5,000 bucks max they would cover?

>> Uh the health insurance. >> Yeah. The pen insurance.

>> There's actually no cap.

>> Okay. So, they'll cover if it's a 20 grand surgery the cat needs, they'll cover it. >> 80% reimbursement.

>> Okay, that's the deal.

>> So, what is your Do you have a magic number that you would spend on a thing with the cat?

>> I mean, I can't see spending more than like

three grand for some. And even that, it's just it's it's a lot.

>> Yeah. for a 10-year-old cat, a $3,000 surgery, like and I would look into quality of life. Are you keeping that cat alive for you or for the cat? Right.

So, there's all those kind of questions I want to ask, >> right? >> Um what what's your financial picture look like? Do you have any debt? Do you have savings?

>> Yeah. No, financially, great. It's great. No debt. Got plenty of savings.

>> Okay. Great. >> So, you're self-insured as far as this cat goes. If something happened, you could fork over three grand if you chose to.

Yes. >> So the question is, is it worth paying now >> $1200 $1,300 a year for the just in case

to avoid paying potentially one grand, two grand, three grand? So that's where I go. I don't think this is worth it at this point. You're better off socking away 100 bucks in a savings account at this point to cover if something happened.

Maybe a scing fund for just pet needs in general, vet bills, all of that. Because as they get older, there's a higher chance there's going to be a vet visit, >> which is insurance companies never lose, right? So that's that's why they keep rise raising the premium. >> It's all about risk.

Their risk is higher as that pet gets older.

>> Yeah. >> Is this your only pet?

>> Yes. >> Are you single?

>> Uh I have a girlfriend. We live together. >> Okay. Does she like the cat?

>> Yeah, she does. as though that matters.

>> I think it matters. If she hates the cat, that's even more reason to cut the insurance. But I personally would, John, again, this is not a make or break for you. Now, if your pet had like a history of health issues that were costing you a lot of money and this insurance was a lifeline that was saving you a lot, u I would get rid of it.

Yeah, >> because the insurance it's like the house always wins and there are rare occasions where someone goes, "No, no, there was a one time where my dog needed a surgery and it actually really worked out." And so, it's more about peace of mind. And I think at this point with the age of your cat, at this point, just let it ride. And when things come up, cash flow it. And if you decide you don't want to cash flow it, then you let that ride.

And if it's the pet, you know, the cat's time, it's the cat's time. Because I have seen friends who they'll pour unlimited amounts of money to keep their their pets alive and I'm like man this is it's getting to a dark place where you're like to John's point.

>> Yeah, totally. I definitely don't want to be in that scenario, you know. Um yeah, I definitely don't see myself being in that scenario.

>> Yeah. And and here's the thing. Um there's been a lot of talk, uh Arthur Brooks has kind of led the charge here about the role suffering plays in our life.

I can count on one hand

the number of times I cried harder than when I put down when my dog got so sick and that was the end for her.

>> It was devastating. Like literally devastating to me. that that dog was my

my original ride or die. And

>> yeah, >> what I got on the back end of that hurt and that grief was, that's what commitment feels like and that's what love feels like and that's what deep relationship feels like. And sometimes we try to put these dollar amounts when it comes to your family. Yeah, dude. No question about it.

When it comes to our pets, it's like you enter into a short-term relationship and that thing looks to you for love and care and support and all that kind of stuff and it's amazing and awesome, but there's going to be grief on the back end of that. And sometimes there's people out there who want to sell us things and try to extend that or push that off or pretend it's not coming.

It's part of entering into a relationship with a pet, however hard that is to hear. And so preparing yourself for that emotionally, that day will come. Hopefully, it's a long time from now. Um, and then getting a number in your head. This is what I'm willing to invest in this pet of mine. And I've

always got to check myself and make sure I'm not my my pet isn't living miserably

so that I don't have to deal with this grief that's going to come.

>> Right. Right. >> That's a good word. So, John, what are you going to do? America wants to know.

I, you know, honestly, I think I knew what I should do, which is to cancel it, but I just sort of needed the uh needed somebody to tell me to do it, you know.

Um I I just Yeah, I know it's the logical thing. Um my my fe theory that

like I cancel and then like tomorrow or, you know, like in a couple weeks something does happen that isn't going to be like >> you go, "Dang it, why did I cancel it?

It would have covered this." >> I I I know. I feel like that's been how I felt the all 10 years I've had this insurance and now it's at 105 bucks a month. >> And that's the sunk cost fallacy. You're like, I've already put this much in, I might as well keep going, right?

>> Yeah. There's a real like mental component to this. >> Yeah. Yeah. It is more mental than financial. And that's the the hard part to grapple with. >> Or it's not mental, it's emotional, right? >> Yeah. And the the financial part, well, let's talk about insurance for a second. The whole point of insurance is to transfer risk. So you can't bear the

burden of your a house fire taking your house and now you got to replace it. So we get homeowners insurance. And so that's the point of insurance. And at one point you're self-insured or the risk is so low and the insurance companies will just know, hey, we're going to make money on this because the risk is so low.

And pet insurance definitely falls into that category. And there's been a change in the last decade, John, where people just care about their pets more than our parents' generation. >> Well, we're getting lonier and lonier as people. We're not getting married, but we have our dogs.

>> Pets are feeling that that gap of human disconnection. >> Yeah. >> Or we we don't want the burden of kids and paying for kids, but we'll get a dog. >> Yeah.

Or we don't want the burden of leaving our house to go meet strangers to become friends. And so I got a I got a dog that will come in and love me. >> Yep. And this I mean this is speaking to my heart as a guy who's who gave more money to the emergency vet than I have given to any one place in my life.

could have furnished my house with the amount I I helped them get a second home, I think. So they love us, but French bulldogs, as I've told you, John, are born broken. So we kind of knew going into it, you're kind of picking up a project here. I should have got a dog from the pound. No issues.

>> Very expensive project. >> Dog from the rescue never has any issues. They live to be a thousand happy, healthy. These purebred dogs, man, they'll get you. So hug your pets today, guys.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney.

Open phones at8825-55225.

Our scripture of the day, Titus 27, and

8. In everything, set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching, show integrity, seriousness, and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned. So that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us. I like that. Be above reproach. Warren Buffett said, "It takes 20 years to build a reputation and 5 minutes to ruin it." If you think about that, you'll do things differently.

Amen. Kelsey is in Atlanta up next.

What's going on, Kelsey?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can John and I help?

Yeah. So, I am currently leasing a vehicle and I am so excited to get done

with it. Um, my plan was to buy a beater

car once the lease is up, but I am I

have another 11 months to go on it. I'm currently $5,000 5,000 miles over

already what I'm supposed to be.

>> What are they dinging you for that? What's the fee? >> It's 25 cents a mile. So, by the time I

figured on average how much Yes. on average how much I drive, >> by the time I turn it in, I'm looking at an extra $5,000 I would pay for the

overage on the mileage. So, my question is, should I go ahead and buy a beater car right now? I'm thinking in the range of $5,000 to $6,000 and go ahead and park my leased vehicle. Go ahead and

just let that ride out and then I'll have pretty much I'm I'm allocating my

money to spending it on a beater now instead of giving it to a dealer at the end of the lease. Does would that make sense? >> H that's a great question. Could you go buy the car outright? >> Yeah. What's the the early buy out amount? >> I could. It would be a little north of $40,000. >> Goodness gracious. What are you driving >> right now? It is worth 29.

It is an EV and so it's depreciated immensely.

>> Ouch. So you'd have to pay 40 to get it,

but then if you sold it, you're 11 grand underwater.

>> Correct. >> Immediately. >> Wait, there there's they're charging you 25 cents a mile on an EV?

>> Yes.

That should be illegal. That should be >> Okay. What EV is this? What's the make, model, and year? >> It's It's a Volvo C40

Recharge, and it's a 2024.

>> O, all right. I'd probably put this in the stupid tax category, but you're saying, "Hey, instead of paying five grand in penalties, cuz you're going to continue to go over the mileage based on your commute." >> Absolutely. Yes. >> You're saying just park it. I'd rather just use that five grand to get me a beater car so that when all said and done, at least I I have a working vehicle.

>> Yes, that's kind of where my mind's at.

Of course, it kind of it breaks my brain a little bit to have two vehicles at the same time, but circumstantially, this is kind of where I'm at. >> Yeah, I mean, that is a pretty wild solution, but it's it makes sense in my head. And I'm I'm trying to think if there's other scenarios. I'm trying to go through like what are all the options and then what's the one that sucks the least? Have you talked to the dealer about this?

>> So, I haven't talked to them about this scenario specifically. I have looked to see if I'd be able to have someone else take it over and they will not allow that. >> Okay. >> Um, by the time I termin

I don't know the fee to be honest. I haven't looked at it because I'm just assuming it's so unreasonable.

>> So, I could look into that.

>> That's probably a great assumption.

Gosh, I still can't get over like on a on a on

an engine, a gas powered engine, there's

going to be wear and tear that's unique and different than on a on an EV. I just can't believe they're charging you 25 cents a mile. That's >> Yeah. >> Whenever I think they can't get worse, they get worse. It's impressive, >> right? >> Leases are definitely my least favorite way to uh have a ve I was going to say own a vehicle, but you don't even own it. You're just renting expensively.

What's your lease payment? >> It burns even more.

>> It's $663 a month.

>> So, you're going to have to pay that for 11 more months while it's just parked.

>> I'll have to pay it for 11 more months while it's parked. >> I would try to level with them at the dealership. Not that they're competent, nice people, but I would explain the situation. Say, "Hey, listen. If I buy it out, I'm 11 grand under day one after already forking over 40 grand that I assume you don't have in cash right now." >> Correct. The other option is the

termination, which I would find out what the early lease termination fees are in case this

is a wild in case in case it's the cheapest option, the cheap the lowest amount of stupid tax you could pay to get out of this thing since they won't let you do a lease transfer.

>> Uh because the buyout is not an option.

And so therefore, you might at least then sort of get rid of the other options to go, okay, my best option is to just hang on to it, pay it, keep stay under the the mileage, and save up for a beater car in the meantime.

>> Do you have do you have 29 grand? Do you have 30 grand to buy it from him?

>> I do not. >> Okay. >> How much do you have?

So, right now I have $6,000 and that is

a sinking fund knowing that I am going to potentially have to pay that in fees when I turn it in. And I'm I'm like very

aggressively paying down student debt.

So, I just don't have that that cash on me. >> No, that's great. >> What do you make? What do you make a month?

>> Um $6,584.

>> Okay. I love the specificity. That's great. And what other debts do you have?

So, I've got a student loan and that is

$21,844.

>> And that's it. Student loan and the lease. >> Yes. >> Okay.

Yeah. I mean, it's going to be hard to to do both to chip away at the student loan debt, pay the lease payment, save up for the beater car, but I like the idea of limiting the damage and fees we're paying on this lease at least if you do nothing else. And then I would see what your options are with the dealer.

>> But my guess is it's pretty ironclad.

>> I mean, you signed the contract, here's the fine print, and they're going to say, "Deal with it." >> Right. Yeah. And I I'm definitely going to take your advice to see if there's any way I can have some wiggle room that I just am assuming I don't have right now. But if if that is not an option,

would you suggest I just park it and drive a beater? >> Yeah. The math says that might be the best option. >> That's the wild part. As much as it hurts your soul to pay 660 bucks >> for parking a car.

>> Yeah. >> Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. >> I mean, it's already it's already hurting my soul, I'm like, if this can minimize the damage, I'm I'm all game.

Well, the good news is you'll never lease a car again.

>> Oh, you you better bet. >> So, that might have been worth all the fees in the world if it means uh you're avoiding a bad money decision. So, I'm rooting for you. You're you're going to survive it and it'll be a fun story you tell your kids one day. >> Kelsey, give America who's listening,

>> give them your opinion on the lease

>> on on someone's sitting there like, I don't want to buy a car. I want to go lease it. >> What would you say? This is your opportunity for a commercial.

>> It is the most financially irresponsible way you could possibly operate and quote unquote not own a vehicle. Do not do it to yourself.

>> Thank you for that. Very helpful.

>> Appreciate the call. And it's a good reminder on leases, John. So, a car lease, people say, "Well, John, it's not debt technically. There's no like loan.

It's just a contract where I have to pay this amount and there's no way out of it forever." If that's what you want to tell yourself that it's not debt even though there's a monthly payment attached that you have to pay. I'm going to call it a loose loosely a form of debt and the depreciation is built right into your lease payment.

>> So you're paying the most expensive part of depreciation to the dealer.

>> Well, and so think about I always like to ask myself who's getting rich, right?

It's the reason I quit using airline miles. And you and I've talked about this off air, but like I remember um

getting a credit card with a ton of miles on it cuz I had to make a huge purchase that I was going to immediately get reimbured for. And I remember thinking, "Hey, they're not my this company's not my friends. Who's paying for these flights I'm getting or these hotel points?" And it was people who

found themselves in financial straits are having to pay. And I was like, "I don't want single moms who are struggling to put food on their table to pay for my free flights. I'm out of this program. So, that is what got me inspired to say, who's getting rich off what I'm doing next. And the lease is

one of the greatest inventions for a car company. They get a brand new car, they give it to you for 2 years, you give them, you basically buy down all of their depreciation, you give the car back to them, they have a gently used car that they have contractually kept.

>> Now, they can sell that, still make a profit. They still they sell a gently used car that's got very low miles that's perfect with no depreciation on it because you've paid it, right?

>> It's brutal. Well, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 134. Short-Term Sacrifice Leads to Long-Term Financial Freedom | May 19, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour and bestselling author George Camel.

>> We're pregaming cuz we're actually filming Smart Money Happy Hour right after the show. >> After the show. That's right. We usually do episodes. We tape them on Mondays and when we get to host together, it's it's the best. Four hours with Rachel Cruz.

That's a blessing. >> What a gift. Let's help some people. >> You're welcome. You are welcome.

>> All right. Give us a call at 888255225.

And we're gonna start off with James in Denver, Colorado. Hi James. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys. Thanks. Thanks for having me.

I appreciate it. How are you doing? >> Hi. We're doing great. Thanks so much for calling in. How can we help?

>> Yeah. So, um I guess my question I'm 33.

I've been very diligent about saving since junior high. Um, I finally crossed

the millionaire, I guess, threshold.

>> Nice. >> Congratulations. >> About to buy a house cash. Thank you.

>> Wow. >> Um, mainly because, well, yeah, I just don't want to don't want to have a mortgage.

Um, rates are a little bit higher and I I could probably make more money having a mortgage and leaving it invested, but just to sleep a little better at night.

So, going to do that. Um, I have quite a

bit set aside as far as brokerage, Roth, traditional. Um, but my my ultimate goal

is to kind of quote unquote retire

early. Um, not to be done working, but just with a traditional job. Um, do

things I'm a little bit more passionate about. I do some public speaking. I have a very unique situation. I'm quite disabled, I guess. I I'm still working full-time. Um, but I do some public speaking and trying to figure out when I can kind of step away from a traditional job, rely on my investments, and the

little bit of income that comes in outside of that. I think that with what I'm doing, it's going to grow and provide a higher income later, um, it's

just not at the moment. So, just trying to figure out that kind of freedom number. >> Cool. How much do you have right now in that brokerage account?

uh 435,000.

>> Awesome. And you said you're 33. So

you've got a ways to go before accessing those retirement accounts. So that that brokerage account is that bridge to fund the gap. And so I would continue putting money into that. Now, when can you officially use that to cover your life?

Well, there's about a thousand variables that, you know, we don't have access to right now. We don't know the future, but you know, you want enough in there that you could pull a percentage off of it and you're not going to run out before accessing those retirement funds, especially if you know you might have a gap in income for a couple years as you get this new thing off the ground. Right. >> Right.

I think very conservatively I could do it off of 30 to 40,000 a year. I I would

like much more than that. >> Yeah, I was going to say like like an like like an actual because I would want this situation for you, James, to be realistic like I that is one thing kind of about not that you were quoting the fire movement by any means, but but that idea that like I'm going to live on nothing. I'm going to save where I can so I just so I can retire and then your standard of living is just so low that there's almost like >> your quality of life suffers. >> Yeah.

No enjoyment, right?

life I would want to live comfortably and good. Nothing crazy extravagant, but definitely like I don't have to be thinking too much about money because I have enough. What would what would that number be then?

>> I know 60 to 80 would do that because on 80,000 income now I'm saving close to

45,000 a year.

So, I I know that I could do that. I would like to have nicer things and do >> sure >> more, but if I had to, you know, live

Yeah. Yeah. If I had to live on rice and beans or continue to, I can.

>> Yep. >> Um, so I would say 60 to 80,000 would be a pretty comfortable number where I know

>> Yeah. when I'm not saving an additional 40,000 in a a year.

>> And you you said you had some income coming in. Was that from disability?

>> No, I'm I'm employed full-time.

>> Okay. And what do you make now?

>> 80,000 probably 10 bonus and maybe

20,000 with what I do on the side.

>> Cool. And you're single?

>> Yeah. Okay. >> No kids. >> All right. Do you have plans on the horizon to maybe get married one day?

>> Well, it's not looking like it. I

um if it happens, it happens. It's

nothing nothing in the pipeline.

>> Okay. I'm just trying to factor in your long-term future. And I have seen a lot of these the fire guys out there, they sort of go, well, getting married and having kids is actually a deterrent to my financial plan. I go, well, your life sucks if family is a deterrent to your financial plan. So, I just want to make sure that you were thinking bigger in terms of your life in general, not just with the dollars. But based on what you told me, I mean, one half million in

that brokerage account would definitely find you. >> 1.6. >> Look at that. >> Look at that, George. Great minds think alike. >> That's just a gut. That's just if you had to aim at something, I would aim at one and a half. And with your income, you'd probably get there in the next, my guess is, >> I don't know, 10 years.

>> Yeah. >> Does that sound accurate?

>> That's exactly what I had figured. Um, so I'm pretending like I have a 15-year mortgage and I'm paying myself into the brokerage 1,500 a month.

>> Fantastic. And so, so I kind of figured

Yeah, I kind of fig kind of figured 10 years. Um, if I get real aggressive, I'm

I'm hoping to do it in five.

>> Mhm. >> Uh, >> yeah. And you might be able to. And honestly, James, your income might be going up more, right, throughout these years and everything.

So, you may hit it, you may hit it earlier. Um, >> but I do I think that's a great next goal, especially for people when my husband and I, we literally had this same conversation. I think I was telling you about this >> at the beginning of the year. Um just looking at like kind of our next big financial goal because we put in a pool two years ago which was like a big thing we saved for and then it's like okay what's like the next thing?

Yeah. And there's kind of this like crap hit the fan number. >> The freedom number. >> The freedom number.

You call it the freedom. I don't know. Kind of like crap hit the fan. I don't know.

Everything just goes and you're like what can I do that I could just walk away and I could still enjoy my life.

ran that out and that's our goal. And so we Yeah. So we're shooting for that. And so James, I think that's great. Especially you'll be on baby step seven.

You won't have a mortgage, which is insane that you paid cash for your house. Uh, maxing out investments, the non-retirement. >> So, I mean, just so smart. And again, don't feel like you have to deprive yourself completely. Enjoy your life now for the in the next 10 years. Have some fun. >> Go on a date. Go on vacation.

>> Yes. Enjoy some of it.

>> But yeah, but that's kind of a ne that's a really great next step, especially for people out there who are in baby step seven, I think, is to have that number.

Oh, and I want to encourage James as well to not wait 10 years to go pursue the thing he wants to do. >> Yeah, that's true. >> Do it now. Unless you sign some sort of non-compete that says you can't go public speak.

I would just make that your side hustle and eventually what might happen is it overtakes your income. >> That's right. >> Over time, and then you decide to leave three years from now and go do your thing full-time. Cuz what breaks my heart is the fire people out there, they go, "Well, I'm going to go do something I'm passionate about one day." >> I'm like, "Well, just do it today.

Go do the encore career now instead of when you're 55, >> right? And >> exhausted. >> And especially if you know you're miserable in it. Like I think there are some people that are wired more of like, hey, I have a great job.

It's not like quote unquote my passion, but I'm really good at it. I get paid a lot and so I get to like use that money to, you know, have a great life. I think there's some of that people and I think there are some that are like, no, I want to do what I love. But then sometimes they're broke when they do what they love all the time.

And you're like, well, you have to make money and survive. So it is it's that like beautiful point of what are you good at? What are you passionate about? And how can you create a great life around that?

That's like the career just like mwah. >> And he might be able to do that in the next year. >> Sex kiss.

>> I don't know if the kids say that, but >> is that right? And that >> I like it.

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the bread winner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity.

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Up next, we have John in Pennsylvania.

Hi, John. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey you guys. Uh, how are you?

>> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Hey. Um, wow, this is crazy. Sorry. Um, so I have um a short question. Uh, look,

very short story behind it. Um, so my wife and I, um, we're I'm 31. She's

almost 30. Um, but don't tell her I told you that. Um, >> and we would never we would never.

>> The the the only debt we have other than

our house, um, is like 10 grand left on a car loan. Um, and that's it. That we

realistically could pay off pretty shortly if we just, uh, rice and beans it. Um, but my question is, uh, so I

have a a guitar that I bought for a

couple thousand dollar like 10 years ago that is like pretty rare, one of one.

And um someone recently offered me $12,000 for it, which is pretty nuts. Um

and I'm I'm just less sentimental uh than I used to be. And I'm wondering if I should just get rid of this thing while I have like the highest bidder or or if I should keep it as like an asset.

Um yeah, that's kind of where my thoughts are right now. Just trying to figure out the right next move.

>> Wow. >> So you bought it for a couple grand, now it's worth 12. You got 10K in debt.

You're like, I could sell the guitar, be completely debtree today with two grand left over, >> but you'll be guitarless and that will make you sad, >> right? >> You like, did I make a dumb move? This could have been worth 20 if I waited.

Because it sounds like you're looking at it as an investment/asset and it's less so this was my grandpa's guitar. >> Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. Is it is the sentimental value it's not really there as much as what is what you said?

It is more you see it like what George just painted of like hey I could get some money out of this.

>> Yeah. I I bought it from like a from like an artist like a like a musician.

So it's not really like dad or anything like that. Um >> so >> is that where the value is because the artist owned it?

So, it it was owned by um I the the

guitar is the it's a Gibson um signature

model of a uh famous like punk rock

guitar player uh from the band Blink 182. >> Oh my god. >> Oh, George. >> I was like, it can't be it can't be Blink192.

>> I think there's a person in this building who might buy that. Maybe at this desk >> you might be getting an offer of >> that is pretty >> $12,0001 after this show uh from someone

sitting here. >> That's pretty cool. >> I am I I was a little sad that John wasn't on but also glad because he would immediately say no don't sell it. He would be a little more >> B. You're talking to the guy who told someone to sell a horse. So I you know I'm never above selling a guitar to get out of debt. But your numbers here like you're going to become debtree pretty fast. How many more months until you guys are completely debtree if you go hard at this?

If we really went hard at it, like maybe six months at the most, really.

>> Okay. So, after six months, you're debtree. Let's say you have the emergency fund. Another three or four months after that, would you still consider selling the guitar just to have the extra cash or would you say, "No, I'm going to hang on to it forever." >> Yeah. If there was no debt, what would you do with it?

>> Yeah, I feel like I would hold on to it because I could always make another $12,000, but I could probably never get this again.

>> I I think I would hold on to it.

>> Yeah. I I don't think it's on nothing's on fire here. If you were like 150 grand in debt and you guys made 40 >> or this was going to clear some a lot of pain in your life, but it sounds like you guys are on track to do this without really, you know, affecting your life right now. So, I would say hang on to it. >> How much do you guys make a year?

>> Uh, so I'm self-employed. My wife works part-time as a nurse. We have a couple of kids. Uh, we're uh around 100 to 125,

which I know it's a big window. probably probably like 110,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Well, my question is why aren't we knocking this debt out sooner? >> Yeah. >> I would put some gas on this other >> three to four versus six.

>> Yeah. Yeah, we we definitely could. I knew that question was was coming. We we just started uh every dollar.

So, we're >> Oh, good. >> So, here's my caveat. If you pay off the car in 90 days, you get to keep the guitar. >> How about that?

>> Okay, deal. >> Pay it off in three days. >> Boom. I see.

I like I don't know why there's something about being human. And I just need to dangle the carrot and put some gas on my financial plan. And I think that helps me go, if I want to keep this guitar, I've got to go a little harder at this. >> Yeah.

And it's 10 grand.

You know what I mean? Something like crazy antique car. Like if it made a huge dent, I feel like I'd be more up to like get rid of it. >> Or if you were just in a dumpster fire situation. >> Yes. And it was like you got to clear everything. Nothing counts anymore in life except for this. But >> but on the spectrum of dumpster fire to Okay. >> That's right. That's right. >> You guys are much closer to Okay.

>> Yep. So, uh I think I'd keep it, John.

Yeah. >> Oh, man. >> So good. >> That was a great concert. John and I went to that concert. >> I know. >> We had a great time. It healed my inner child just like Backstreet Boys did for me. >> Healed me. I know. Music is magical. All right, let's go to Holly in Charleston, West Virginia. Hi, Holly. Welcome to the show. >> Rachel, it's so good to talk to you.

>> Oh, thanks Holly. George is not here.

Just me. >> I'm just honored to speak to the both of you today. I've been so excited about trying to call all day and I finally got through. >> Um so glad >> the Lord willed it.

>> That's he did. Amen to that. Um so here's guys in the situation. Um, I have

mental health concerns that um have not

forced but coerced me to stop working

and do intensive intensive therapy and

because of that I'm not working but I have a family member who sends me $1,500

a month and I was wondering would that be would it be possible to start the Ramsey plan with a fixed income?

um with that small of an income in your situation, I'd probably say not right now. I think I would get into a place um

mentally where you are you you are able to engage the world in a sense of like that you are healthy enough to start working, have a job,

right? And and all of that to in order to really probably go at this. Um because how much how much consumer debt do you have?

uh give or take a little bit. I think about five 5k. So, it's not bad. I actually have a vacancy from several years ago, but right now I only have probably not even 5,000. Um but I do have some enough enough to make me a little bit concerned, but not terrible.

>> Yeah, it's 5,000. Is it credit card debt? What kind of debt is it?

>> Uh no, ma'am. It is medical and then a

tuition bill from the school I stopped attending. And then um two

uh it was for uh Verizon and T-Mobile.

They're uh >> some phones. >> When I stopped my contract, they had a final bill. So >> Okay. >> Um I just haven't been able to pay it yet. >> Yeah. Um how much is your expenses every month? >> Because how are I'm just wondering how you're going to live on 1500.

>> Yeah. In West Virginia, as you can probably guess, living cost of living is lower than most places. Um my my rent is

700. My um my electric is about 120 a

month and then my cell phone my Wi-Fi is 50 a month and then my cell phone is 45 a month. Um I don't have to pay for water sewer trash, none of that. But um that's basically where I'm at. I'm left with maybe $500, >> okay, >> left over the month and I have to spend that on groceries.

So I'm really am in a pickle. >> But I am very grateful.

>> Are you paying for that on your own?

>> Uh Medicaid Medicaid. Okay. And is there an end date, Holly, to that program that you know that you know is it is it like a 90-day or a six-month or a 30-day?

>> The one that I had a referral to. I just finished one that was 90 days. I finished it, got a certificate, made me very proud of myself. I stuck with it.

Yeah. And then they referred me to they referred me to another one that's 12 months long. So >> Oh, wow. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's not even for sure that I got into that app to have a bunch of consults and a bunch of tests and things like that before they even accept me. So, I'm just kind of hoping they hoping I get into it, but no guarantees yet >> and waiting. Okay. Yeah. So, I think um

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. From the I think from the financial perspective, I think my goal would be not getting into any more debt,

staying current on all your bills so you don't get behind, and then make maybe making some small goals towards paying

some of this off. Um, you >> might be able to negotiate that medical debt even with the little bit you have in savings. Say, "This is all I have.

Will you take it?" Yeah, because if you can get some traction a little bit, um,

even if it's a couple hundred bucks extra a month that you kind of work your way in that smallest debt, that actually may give you some level of, you know, good energy, right, of some confidence.

Yeah. Of what you're doing. But, um, but yeah, I would I would take care of yourself, Holly. Get yourself in a good place. And it sounds like you're doing that.

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All right, let's go to John in Salt Lake City. Hi, John. Welcome to the show.

>> Rachel, hi George. Thanks for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, I have my wife and I, we have a lot

of concerns, but I I can narrow this down to uh one or two. Uh, at this

point, we're 53 and 54 years old. Uh,

late bloomers as far as creating a a good income. and we've developed uh we've collected a lot of debt.

>> Okay. >> Uh my wife graduated from law school not too long ago after dropping out of high school. She went back to school and got her law degree. Um uh we, you know, accumulated a lot of debt there. Um about 215,000

220,000. >> Oo. Okay.

>> Uh that's just the beginning. Um,

uh, we have a home that's we owe 365 on

and it's worth somewhere in the mid4s,

uh, maybe a little higher than that. Um, we have a lot of other debt that we've accumulated over the years. Um, so other

than the school loans and the house,

probably another um 150,000.

>> Are there cars in there? looking at >> uh there's only one car um sitting there

right now. It's about five grand left.

And that's the thing that got me calling you guys cuz I had the urge when I

looked at that uh amount that was owed.

I was like, "Hey, it's worth more than that and I can go trade it in and get another car." And then I was like, "What are you stupid? Um you want to get another payment?" And uh and so I

decided not to do that and start looking back into the Ramsay uh program.

and it's brought me here after a couple of weeks. Um, my wife's not quite on board with me yet because although she's got that attorney job, she it's only been a a prosecutor's pay, which is less

than what I make at uh as a manager at a warehouse club.

>> Um, >> what's your household income today?

>> Net um we make almost 10,000 a month. is

after that is our take-home but that is after all the insurance I mean I max out everything on my on my paycheck really because >> um because um insurance I I've up till now up till

recently I was investing 1,200 a month

into my 401k um but I stopped that because I'm going to start putting it toward debt >> good >> um I've already maxed out the for this year I've already maxed out my 401k match and my company does a a gratuitous

6% on top of that. So, um I'm letting

them add to my 401k from here on until

until debt gets cleared up.

>> The questions I have are are twofold

really.

>> Do I um do we need to sell the home?

>> Uh do we have to do that? We're we're living in a home that's quite frankly too big for us, but we we bought it. It was our first home we bought three years ago >> and we wanted to have enough room for our family, our kids and grandkids to come over. >> What's your mortgage with us?

But >> uh 2600 >> that's right in line with our 25% parameter. >> So it's it's not going to it's >> real close. >> You'll have like 70 grand in equity maybe if you're lucky. Maybe 50 net after fees to throw at your 370 in consumer debt.

So that's where I'm doing the math here going. You guys bring home 120, you got 370 in debt.

>> I'm still trying to collect all the data cuz we have not done a good job obviously of of controlling our spending. We we pull out a card and we spend and we don't pay attention. We go, hey, we still got money in our account.

>> Mhm. >> Um and that's how we live and we've been living, you know, according to payments and not according to debt. Um you know, what what can we spend each month? So,

the other thing is, you know, my wife's not on on track with this yet because

with her job, she has got an ethical issue at work. Um, she could be suing her employer. >> Um, and and possibly not

>> suing a law firm. That feels fun.

>> Yeah. Suing the county.

>> Okay. >> Suing the county that she works for. um because because there are there are questions in there um ADA um you know

disabilities act that that they're not uh they're not um following through with and also um questionable practices um

that put my wife's law um

>> her her law degree or her her bar

>> status in question. My question about her, >> just real quickly, >> does she see another path of making a ton more money in the next five years with this degree that she paid $220,000 for?

>> Quite possibly. But but right now she

like I try to talk to her about this stuff and she says I am 100% focused on

on trying to figure this thing out at work. Um so the conversations just

aren't happening. I am ready and rearing to go. I will go live in a trailer in a I'll go live in an RV if I have done you're so done with all this >> wherever I need to. My wife's not there yet.

And that I knew that that was the biggest key. So, you know, I called I called ELPs >> um to talk to them and I was looking specifically for somebody who could be a financial adviser and a financial counselor.

>> Sure. Do you guys work together, John, about money? like in the past like I'm not talking about the last six months. >> We ignore it. >> We ignore it and we flip flop. When one gets when one gets fired up, the other one's not. >> Yep. >> And and so we flip-flop through that a lot. >> Yes. Your whole time. Okay. So that's been the pattern for I mean, how long have you guys been married?

>> 31 years. >> Okay. So breaking a pattern of financial

habits and marital habits with money,

it's hard to do in a in a really quick way, right? you've hit your emotional breaking point, which was why this makes it easy. We call it the I've had it moment here at Ramsay. People do exactly what you do.

They wake up one day and because of one small situation or a crisis, they're like, "Holy crap, I'm done." Like you just, like you said, like, I I will go live in a trailer. I'll do whatever I have to do to get out of this. Um, and she may not have to hit it to that extreme, but that's, you know, obviously that's why you're wanting to change is because you have hit that moment. And so to expect her to flip a switch automatically with you, um, obviously probably from a relational standpoint is not realistic, but like you said, it is needed.

her to feel the weight of what you're

carrying because as as her husband, you

have felt a massive level of now responsibility, a massive level of stress and anxiety

around this that you want free from. And so what can you all do as a partnership?

Even if she's not to that point, my my

prayer is that she can come around you as your as her husband to say, "Okay, I have a lot of stress at work, John. You got to give me 14 days just to kind of get a plan in place and then my head will be clear and then we can move forward." She can't live in the clouds, right, about money for the rest of her life. So, I almost would have some kind of like, hey, >> I'll give you some grace right now, but it's kind of on fire, our situation.

and address what we're going to do. What if this drags out for 2 years as you guys get foreclosed on cuz you can't keep up with your payments?

>> It's going to become her problem even if it's not right now. And the napkin math, John, to help you, let me just show you this. If you pay 2,000 a month toward your debts, it's going to take you 15 years. >> Yeah, >> that's 2,000 a month. That's probably money you don't have right now to throw at all those debts. >> And so >> we act I think we actually do.

>> How much can you throw at it? Because if you can do 7K, 8K, now we're talking 3 to four years. Well, because you stopped the 1,200 of your 401k, so you can add that and then any level expenses that you can cut. You could probably cut another three, right?

>> I would make it a goal to be out of this thing in in less than four years. And that's going to take 8K a month getting thrown at this debt, which means upping the income and maybe selling the house is just part of that game plan to clear some of it, >> working extra and all of it. Yeah. Um, yeah, you guys do have that long road ahead.

And getting her on the same page and you guys talking about this is get is going to be a big part, right? You can't cut $3,000 out of a budget you used to spend without your spouse really being on board. Um, and so her sitting down and you guys creating a plan together is going to be crucial.

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Next up we have Joe in Indianapolis. Hi Joe. Welcome to the show. Hey Rachel.

Hey George. How you guys doing? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Good. Yeah, it's a blessing to talk to you. Um, I'll keep it brief here. So, I actually get married in 12 days. Um, and

Congrats. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's been a long engagement about two years.

So, we are more than than ready. Um, but

we're going to be obviously uh combining finances and kind of tackling debt. So, I would just like some some wisdom and experience from you guys and how to just set ourselves up uh the the best we can financially heading into this new chapter. >> Love it. And you both are on the same page that we're doing this.

>> Yeah. Yep. Yep. >> It's about to be our debt, our income.

>> Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely.

>> That's great. >> How old are you guys?

>> Uh we're 25. >> Okay, great. And how much debt will you guys have combined going in?

Um so and I I just bought a house last

year. So um consumer debt I have about

175. Um that is a student loan and

medical and then she uh is she's will be

a chiropractor. So she has about 190 of

student debt that she'll be bringing in and that's all that we'll have.

>> Okay. And how much you guys will you be making do you think? Or is she is she just graduating school or is she working? She she's just graduating, so she we think that she'll probably make about a h 100,000. Um talking to the the chiropractors at the office that she's uh essentially doing her clinicals at right now where she will be working.

>> And then I'm self I'm self-employed. Uh and I've only been working full-time in the workforce for two years now. Um last year I made about 181,000 and I'm I'm on

track to do that this uh year as well.

>> Good for you guys. Amazing. that great

income is going to help because you're now you're going to be making 281 trying to pay down 207. And so you got a big a big pile here, but you got a big shovel to clean it. And so the goal is combine the income into one bank account. What my wife and I did is I had a checking and I just made it a joint checking, added her, and then we shut hers down.

>> It was that simple. So, a joint checking, a joint savings, and use any any money you guys have, any savings, money from the wedding that isn't used for the honeymoon or whatever to get your life started, and start throwing that at the debt. And then stay on a budget and keep living like you're broke. Don't get high on the hog just because she's working making 100 grand now.

Keep living like broke college students and just throw every cent at this debt until it's gone. >> Yeah, it's wild.

account, personal savings. Um, and I I think I know the answer to this, but should I write a check for 175 today and just pay everything off? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And then write another huge check once you guys are back from the honeymoon and clear a bunch of these debts.

>> Okay. That's what I was thinking. >> What's the money for? The 150.

>> Uh, that's it's not for anything really.

It's just what I've saved up working the last two years and yeah, it's just accumulating in my account.

>> So, do you have are you going to have a hard time letting go of all of that to pay down her debt? Uh, you know, I think when I first started making like I was a broke college student, first started making like quote unquote like real money, right, in in the adult life. I think at first, like probably four years ago, three years ago, I was a little bit hesitant, but I'm more than willing and wanting to just start, you know, from a clean slate. So, I am willing.

Yes, >> I love it. Well, if you use that now, you're down to 74,000 left to pay off, making 281. And now we're done in a year. >> Sounds a lot better.

And guess what? You're going to be able to build some serious wealth making 281 with no payments for the rest of your life, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Saving up 150 grand, that's a lot of money, but you'll do it pretty quick with no debt payments.

>> Yeah, I like that. It's much easier to hear that from, you know, from somebody with your experience. So, >> it's what I would do if I was in your shoes. So, it's not just like, well, it's what the Ramsay plan says. It's what I would do is clean up the debt as fast as possible with all the assets you guys have. >> Yes. I mean, that's what's crazy. If you have $150,000 saved that Yeah. and 200.

I mean, yeah, it's 50 grand. And if you guys made it an aggressive goal to say, "Hey, let's pay this off in six months, right?" What's wild to think about, Joe, is >> Yeah. I mean, we can talk about the debt payments, but in six months, that's that's going to be, you know, in your rearview mirror. It's going to be more now going forward for the rest of your lives.

And hey, how do we set this up well between two people who you will learn very quickly that your wife is not you and you guys are going to have >> opposite uh tendencies with money. You know, you both may grow up in different backgrounds when it comes to money.

And so what I would say from a relational side is to see your spouse as

a strength and for her to do the same to you because opposites attract and sometimes that can actually create the create friction and tension and conflict. But when you can actually pause and say, "Hey, actually what they're bringing to the tables, I think I'm probably worse at so I'm going to lean on their strength in this area and vice versa." Right. Um so there's going to be those relational dynamics. Yeah.

you guys will be working through throughout all of marriage, but you're going to get good at it. And my prayer is that as you guys follow the baby steps and you get out of this debt, you guys save up an emergency fund, you start investing in retirement, y'all are 25. You can start all of this in the next go year. >> That is so wild to me. >> It's going to be crazy like what you guys are going to build. So have goals.

Have really big goals of saying, "Hey, let's yeah, let's pay off the house.

Let's um go on this trip." And maybe it's a generosity play of like, yeah, maybe like we have parents that could never afford this type of trip. Let's make it a goal to be able to take them or, you know, whatever it looks like. But have always have something you're kind of shooting for and aiming for uh with your money because you guys make a lot of money and you're going to be on the other side of this debt in a blink of an eye if if you do it, which I'm going to assume you are, Joe, uh to pay it off.

And I think that moving forward is the big is kind of that big glaring thing for me. What are you going to do moving forward? Well, the the biggest temptation after you get married and you're making 281 at 25 is to look like you make 281. >> That's right.

>> Let's get some fancy new cars. Even if you had the money to do it, it's and your friends going, "Dude, you you spent 150 grand on debt. You could have invested that, bro. That's going to be your friends on the other side." And so you have to get blinders on going, "No, these are the goals we set for our family." And that is to be completely debtree to give us options and flexibility so that one day, >> let's say she has a kid and wants to stay home.

So instead, build a life that has options and margin. >> That has margin. Love it. All right, let's head to Devin in Omaha. Hi, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Uh, I'll try to keep it quick. Um, currently on baby steps four, five, and six. I make about $113,000 a year. Wife

makes between 80 and 90. And then I run

a small business on the side that brings it's fluctuates quite a bit. Maybe between 25 and 45,000 a year.

>> Oh, nice. Okay. >> Um, like I said, we're on baby steps four, five, and six. Um, we're just wondering if we're to the point where she can stay home. Um, we had plans of paying off the mortgage within the next three or four years, but we have a two and a half year old and >> another baby and is it all right to delay that baby step six to cherish

these years so she can stay home with them? >> For sure. For sure. I would still keep an semianressive goal, right?

Because if you went all the way to what the average person if they have a 30 year like I'll pay it off in 30. We still want you to pay it off in, you know, a reasonable time um to have that. But if it slows it down by a couple of years because yeah, if you guys have two babies in the house and you're like, "Listen, we want Yeah, we don't pay for daycare, you know, your wife wants to be home and you guys make $150,000 a year with just your income, the side business and all." >> Uh I mean, I think it's a green light for sure for her to stay home.

>> Yeah. Um not factoring just my income. I

don't I don't try to factor my side business in too much to our budget monthly just because that's kind of bonus on the top, >> right? Just make that the extra mortgage payoff money. How about that? That's fun. >> Yeah. So, we'll have about 1,000 to,500 left a month still. >> And that's after investing 15% money in

college, >> paying all the bills. >> So, here's my next part on that. Um, I

have a pension. You guys say to only count half of what you put into your pension. >> Yes. >> So, if if it's, you know, 6%, you can count three.

But they still Yeah. So it's five. So it' only be 12 and a half percent. So it' be I could bump it two and a half%.

But yeah, we're still contributing to 529s and then retirement as well. >> That's the key is if it's going to derail the baby steps, then we got a problem here.

Um, the other thing was is this would bump us above the 25% rule for the mortgage just a little bit, but by the end of the year, we'll have about a h 100,000 outside of our um

emergency fund saved up. Will it be okay to recast the mortgage? >> Yeah, throw that lump sum at it and recast. It'll bring your payment down.

I mean, either way, you're going to knock the payment the mortgage out fast anyways. So, you guys are in great shape. >> Yeah. And congratulations, Devin.

I mean, honestly, you guys doing this and paying off your consumer debt, having an emergency fund, >> that's why you do it. Yes. Is have options in life so you're not tied down to a job that you hate when you want to be home with your kids. And so, yeah, you and your wife have done a fantastic job.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting today with George

Camel, my I was going to say co-host, bestselling author. >> Say what you want. >> All the things. All the things. But we are here to answer your questions. So give us a call at88255225.

We have Lacy on the line in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi Lacy. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

Yeah. So, my question is, I'm a single mom of three and I'm trying to determine if I actually should drop my emergency

savings down to $1,000 to put um that

$9,000 towards my car loan.

>> Oh my goodness. Okay. How How old are the kids?

>> Uh 17, 10, and eight.

>> Got your hands full. I applaud you, Lacy. Being a single parent, I can't I can't imagine. I mean, you're doing a fantastic job just calling and having a sentence that you're putting together cuz I know it's probably so so much work. Um, okay. So, you have $9,000

saved. >> I have 10 >> $10,000 saved. And how much debt do you have?

>> Um, so I have my mortgage, which is 400,000, and then I have my car loan

that's 40,000.

>> Okay. How much do you make a year?

Um my my net takehome monthly is 7,300.

>> Okay.

So that car So you're what is that probably about 90,000?

>> Yes. >> A year. >> Um yeah, you're right that car is kind

of right on the bubble of too much car for what you make. We always say you don't want anything with motors and wheels being more than half of your annual income. And so you're not quite there, but you are kind of close. So I'm just curious, have you looked at if you

sold the car, what could you sell it for? >> I have, and I've actually been going back and forth on this for a month or two. >> Okay. >> Um, so I'm in an equitable position in the vehicle, whether I were to trade it in or sell it private party. So I owe

40,000. Um, if I were to cancel the

warranties, um, I would get that pr-rated refund applied to the loan and I would be at 37,000, um, to to pay that loan off. If I sell it private party, I'm hoping it it

appears I would get about 43. And I actually just this weekend went into a dealership and was quoted a $41,000

uh, amount for trading it in. And so I

the reason I bought this vehicle is because um I had been in an accident. My car was totaled and uh I purchased the

warranties because I basically have no maintenance, no, you know, um no issues for the next

6 years. So that's the 150,000 milei

powertrain warranty. And then um it includes oil changes, tire rotations, all of that stuff. So I felt like I was getting a really good deal. However, I still have a $750 car payment. So I was looking at, okay, if I downgrade into something just a wee bit smaller for, you know, 20 $25,000,

then that'll drop my payment probably $350 a month.

>> Um but then I'm not >> Why not sell it? net your six and then use, you know, five or nine to purchase something used for now and then upgrade later because then you're completely debtree and with your great income, you'll be able to save that emergency fund up quick.

>> You'll have 10K back in no time.

>> Yeah. And it it just makes me nervous to

not have that 10K in my savings account

because if there, you know, for example, I had a dog emergency a few months ago that cost me $3,000.

So if something like that were to come up, then I'm back to having to put something on a credit card, which I really don't want to do, right? My question is, say you did George's plan, okay? And that means you only have 5,000 in in the savings. If you didn't have a car payment, could you could you find

another I don't know, I'm making this up. $6,000, do you think beyond

beyond the car payment?

>> Um, I mean, so in the position I'm in

today, my my monthly margin is about $1,100. So, getting rid of that car payment, I'm, you know, $1,800,

almost $1,900 in monthly margin.

>> Okay? >> Which means you could cash flow a $3,000 emergency between your thousand buck emergency fund. And that's just one month in. >> And if you put that aside, then you could have your emergency fund built back up in in three months.

>> So, I hope you don't have any emergencies in the meantime. But if you did, >> if you did, you could have Yeah. you you could cash flow up to 8,000 at that point if you kept 5,000 in used 5,000

for the car plus the six go get $11,000 car. >> Um yeah, I mean you could you could make this work. It's just it's it's transferring risk like is kind of what we're looking at because you know people feel safe when they have cash in the

bank understandably but yet over here

there's still money owed. So from a net worth perspective, like there's still risk there. So if you did the plan of selling the car, netting out six, putting five with it, buying an $11,000 car, >> now you have no risk, right? You have an $11,000 car, but plenty of people drive $11,000.

>> And you might drive that for less than a year. Yes. As you save up and then get a better car and then a better car. The problem is when we drive brand new cars, our body says, "I need to have a brand new car forever now." And so you I kind of like stairstepping it up because you get used to that nice new leather smell and the fancy, you know, leather heated seats.

And so I think there's something about sacrifice where you go, I'm going to drive this beater car and sacrifice for a short season, especially with your situation being a single mom. >> Yeah. So So I have no debt risk. I have no risk.

No risk financially. Like I it is all you. All you. There's no bank tied to you saying if you don't pay this, we can come and get it, right?

And so there's something that's very freeing about it. And >> and we've studied, I mean, tens of thousands of people, I mean, hundreds of thousands throughout the years, millions of people that have gotten out of debt and have walked their way through the baby steps. And we have just seen time and time again, it really is the fastest, most most reliable way to build

to build wealth when you have no payments >> and you depend on your income, which is your largest wealth buildinging tool. and you yourself with the autonomy of just you are able to stair step you financially. And so getting getting a car loan out of your life, a $40,000 one, because even if it was $2,000, you

know, that you're putting aside, it'll be two two and a half years till you pay this car off. And that's a that's a long time to have a $750 car payment.

>> Right. Right. >> I promise you, you can afford the oil change and the tire rotation should be free with wherever you got your tires.

So, I I think you know they'll sell you on those warranties all day and make you think this car is about to fall apart. And I go, "Well, maybe I shouldn't be buying this car if you're so worried that I need a warranty." So, >> you talk about this in your book, Breaking Free from Broke. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, most of the money they make is warranties and financing.

It's not from the margin on the car. That's why they hate people like me who walk in with a check ready to pay cash. And so, I would get out of that warranty, bringing it down to 37. Go get your 43 for it.

Take that six and profit plus some for your emergency fund and find the best car you can.

>> Get in. Yes. You know, you're not getting a lemon. That's right. And Lacy, if you have a few um friends that are good with cars, maybe some of your friends husbands or something, I don't know. Have them look at it too, right?

Cuz it is a big purchase, a car, and you want it to be reliable. You want to you want to make sure all of those things are in check. And there they are, though. That's I promise you you can find a used car that has all those things. And yeah, getting out of this payment and freeing it up, it's pretty amazing what it what it does. Yeah. But we're cheering you on, Lacy. You're doing a really really good job.

Okay, guys, let me ask you something.

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Up next we have Valerie in Chicago. Hi Valerie, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. >> Hello. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

So, we are currently in a multi-generational household. We just moved in um not too

long ago with my in-laws, but there has been some costly updates that probably

should have been taken care of a while ago. Um but my in-laws are expecting us

to pay for it, but they haven't fully given us the home yet. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when when are they planning on giving you the home?

>> Um, when it's paid off.

>> Okay. That's still a bad idea for tax reasons, but we can couch that for a second and talk about this multi-generational home. So, is it just your in-laws and you guys right now?

>> Yes, there are um 10 of us living here

in >> Wow. So, it sounds like more than that.

Is it kids? Who else is there?

>> We we have six kids.

>> Oh, okay. Okay. So, how does this work?

I'm curious cuz I've heard about these.

Uh, who who pays who? So, they own the house, they pay the mortgage, and then you pay them rent, >> and then we're just paying the utilities. >> So, you don't pay rent?

>> No. >> Okay. So, you're living pretty cheaply, and they're going, "Well, hey, listen. You guys are living here pretty cheap. The house is going to be yours. We think you should pay for these renovations." >> Yes. >> Repairs. How much is it?

>> Yes.

Um well, just for example, we had to order like a new um like a window and

that was like $900. So,

but it had, you know, been needed to be

taken care of before we moved in.

>> So, they waited until you guys moved in and said, "Hey, there a bunch of repairs to do. >> That's fun." Um >> kind of, but not really. But my husband

>> Go ahead. >> Well, I was going to ask how how did this all come about?

Did they offer this as, you know, a

great option in life and you guys were like, "Let's do it." >> Uh, >> yes. >> Okay. >> My husband got a job opportunity and so we moved back to his hometown.

>> Left to your own devices. Would you guys want to have your own place?

>> No. My we we want the multi-generational

to to work. We want it to work.

>> Okay. Well, then I would do a reset if you really want this to work. I would do a reset on all things finances because it sounds like you guys never actually came to any agreements as to how it would work other than you guys pay utilities. That was pretty much it.

>> Correct. >> We need a whole lot more than that.

>> And the thing about taxes I mentioned, if they give you the house while they're still alive, then you lose

>> the ability to have the step up in basis. So, if they bought the house for $100,000, when they give it to you, now it's worth $500,000. where you're going to owe taxes on all the gains. But if they if you inherited the house after they pass, >> well, now there's a step up.

And so the IRS says, "Hey, the house is worth 500." And >> you got it at 500 >> and you got it at 500. So there's no taxes. So if you went and sold it within a couple months, you'd have no taxes to pay. >> And so that's one of the issues with giving a home to your kids.

>> So I'd caution you against that.

>> I didn't. which then complicates it, right? Well, how do you get the house? Well, you need to like buy it from them >> or you all live there until they die. I mean, you know what I mean? From >> Oh, yeah. >> But if that is that what you guys want, though, you want a long-term life like this? >> Yes. Yeah, that's what we're planning on. >> How old are the parents?

>> In their 70s. >> Okay. So, listen, people do life

different. Um, and if this is how you choose and what you guys value and want to do, you you do what you guys want. I mean, you're both you're all adults.

>> Here's my fear, Valerie, is that

down the line, and we've heard crazier than what I'm about to throw out. I'm just making this up. >> Uh, you know, his mom passes away in 5

years. Dad's 75, meets a woman online at

80. She wants to go and leave and sell the house, whatever, whatever. And you're 10, 15 years into this wonderful plan. something gets derailed and for 10 to 15 years you and your nuclear family

have done nothing from a home perspective of building equity of having your own of saving for a home >> quote unquote you're out of the deal now um in this pretend scenario >> and here you guys are in your 40s or 50s

>> and you're starting from nothing from a home perspective which is one of the it's the largest purchase you make as a home it's the thing that if you rent it continues to go up. So that avenue is not smart longterm. I mean it just puts you in a >> in a scenario that can be very sticky that you don't see right now but could happen in 10 15 years. Someone gets

sick, right? Or and you have to take care of them. There's >> addition or they run out of money and now they're doing a reverse mortgage and now you can't even inherit the home without paying them. And so there's a lot of issues that could arise in the meantime. This it sounds this is why doing deals with family can be a little sticky and and what I'm going to propose is going to sound probably a little heartless, but I would I would almost write some type of legal contract that

could hold up in court >> that literally plays out. It's what we would do if someone did a partnership in business. We don't recommend partnerships, but if we do, we're like, you got to think about it all.

addiction, divorce, you know, you go through all the things that could happen to put you guys in a bad situation >> and you guys need to lay out scenarios to protect yourselves um for whatever that could look like in the future. So, that's my only word of caution. That doesn't always happen. Sometimes there's crazier things that happen.

>> Sometimes nothing happens and and everything's fine, but we wouldn't have jobs if everything went according to plan for people. >> Yeah. and they are willing to write

something, you know, get something in in written form um in case, you know, XYZ happens.

>> And then I would also come to an agreement on how repairs and renovations are going to work because you're going to have more of this as time goes on and so are you guys going to cover it forever? Are we going to split it 50/50?

>> Yeah, >> that's up to you guys to decide. and if you want to foot the bill for this one, but I think if it's $20,000 in repairs and they just neglected to do them, I don't think that should fall on you.

>> And then Valerie, you and your husband need to have some really healthy check-ins as well because sometimes you

get locked in a situation where you start to be really unhappy >> living with his parents. And again, maybe not next year, but five, six, seven years, >> resentment plays up and you know what I mean, comes in and >> and it starts to erode you guys, right?

like like you just need to be thinking through all of this. Um or if he gets another job offer, he got a job offer to move home. What if he gets an offer >> that would triple his salary and it moves you guys somewhere that you like really want to but then you feel >> stuck in some situations right at the house. So I >> Or they expect you to take care of them regardless of the finances. Yes.

>> Because they are in their 70s.

>> Yep. So, >> I would just be I would be looking at every possible thing and saying it out loud and you and your husband be in agreement. >> And I I would meet with an estate planning attorney just to help you navigate this. Not out of like we're not suing anybody. It's just more, hey, can you help us craft this in a way that makes sense for everybody?

>> Yeah, I think that would be great. And I would feel comfortable probably doing that. >> Yeah. and they can walk you through those financial aspects of well as well of what I mentioned of inheriting the house versus them giving it to you while they're alive because that's also some pieces to think about. We get too many calls where someone calls in and they go, "Yeah, they just gave it to me while they were alive." And we go, "Well, you have a a tax bill on that $700,000 in

gains from when they bought it in 1982."

>> Yes. Yes. Okay.

>> How many bedrooms is this? I'm just curious. With 10 people there, >> three, four, five bedrooms.

>> Wow. Oh. So, are the kids all bunking up? >> Um, no. Just some of just some of our boys. They're younger and so they um

also have a a bedroom, but there's essentially two like primary suites. Um,

>> and the six kids are splitting three rooms.

>> Yes. Okay. And then we have a baby with us, but also um there's potential to like make other bedrooms if we need to along the way.

But it's a pretty spacious house. It's 7,000 square ft. >> Oh wow. This is palatia.

>> That's great. That's great. >> Okay. Well, I wish you the best. I really do hope it works. Um it sounds so

good on paper. Like grandma and grandpa are there and and Dr. Arthur Brooks, he's mentioned this cuz he his kids live with him. Yes. >> Grown kids and it's a great situation, but it's because there's healthy boundaries in place. >> Yes. Everyone has to be functional.

>> Psychology. I know he studies this for a living too which is >> you need to have some financial footing, have good boundaries, be emotionally, mentally, financially healthy for this to work. >> Yep. And a lot of think a lot of people go in blindly not thinking about what could be or don't address things and that's when the dysfunction starts to play out. So it can be a beautiful thing if it works. Um but a lot of times people aren't, you know, aware of all

the traps. So just going into it, you know, eyes wide open is important.

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We wish we could get to every call here on the show, but if you do have a money question and you want an answer to your specific situation, make sure to head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey.

So, Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on Ramsay principles. So we put in the past, you

know, few years of shows into this, articles, books, everything coming out of Ramsey so that your question, your specific question can be asked the way we would answer it. So again, ask your question at ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, let's go to Wanda in State College, Pennsylvania. Hi Wanda, welcome to the show. >> Hi. Hi Rachel. Hi George. How you doing?

>> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today?

>> So, I would like to know how one ages

gracefully financially speaking. I

honestly thought the Lord would come back, but while we wait, the cost of

long-term care is astronomical and frankly, one cannot afford.

I feel like the country is not financially kind to the elderly requiring care and the life that we save

for without debt investing smartly is just gone in a poof because the cost involved with any type of elder care.

So, I'm 56, my husband's 57, and after

having witnessed what my parents, who have since passed on when they needed care, it makes me nervous for me and my

husband and even my in-laws. So, how does one plan for this?

>> Well, it's a great question. Um, so there's a couple of things you can do.

There is long-term care insurance. Have you looked into that?

>> I I've been thinking about it. I honestly have not and I'm not sure like how old I need to be to even invest in that. >> Well, you generally say once you turn 60 on your 60th birthday as a gift to yourself, I would look into it and purchase a policy for you and for your husband because the earlier the better, the lower the premiums.

>> Got it? >> Cuz that's the one thing that could tank you is that long-term care. A nursing home stay, you know, can run over 100 grand a year easily. And the average stay is two and a half years. So you're talking quarter of a million dollars out of your nest egg if you even have it to cover something like that.

>> Correct. >> And so it's worth it even though like man it's an expensive insurance. Yes.

But you're not going to have it forever and hopefully quote, you know, fingers crossed we can get you selfinsured to where your nest egg can cover that easily without, you know, depleting your retirement. >> Yep. So that was going to be the next option. So you can do long-term care insurance. And then the next option is is you Wanda, you and your husband. So, where are you guys at financially?

>> Oh, we've got um a couple of retirement accounts. We're still working. Um just about to pay off our house at the end of the year. So, we're we're doing okay and

everything. Um >> how much are in those accounts?

>> Oh, goodness. Let me think. Um

he has like 300. I think I might have

400. I don't even know how they're split out. I kind of glaze over when it comes to investments and retirement. Um, we

have about almost a h 100,000 in the bank. >> Okay. So, yeah, you guys are around

800,000. And then your house is almost paid off, which is so exciting. Correct.

>> What's that worth?

>> Probably um the last time we checked

somewhere around 250 to 300.

>> Okay, great. >> So, you guys are net worth millionaires.

Okay, maybe >> that's just the math. That's the math.

Wanda, I think it's not an opinion.

>> I think you are, which is very exciting.

>> Based on accounting standards, your assets minus liabilities would put you over the million dollar mark, which is awesome. That's a great milestone. It's not to say you can go retire tomorrow, but at least you're heading in the right direction compared to most of America.

So, I would continue to invest once the house is paid off. I'd start maxing out those retirement accounts and build up enough of a nest egg where 250 grand,

you know, is not going to tank your retirement. You can still retire with dignity and know that you have those costs. And again, at that point, you still might want long-term care and let the nest egg continue to grow in the meantime. And maybe maybe you need it, maybe you don't. But either way, you're covered. Not wondering, is a health scare or a nursing home stay going to ruin us? >> Going to take us out. Yep. All right, let's head to Katherine in Virginia. Hi,

Katherine. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, how are you? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Okay, so I would like to know um should we increase our living expenses while we save up a down payment for our house?

>> Um >> should you increase your living expenses? >> Yes. >> So, spend more per month while you're saving up a down payment.

>> Yes. because we're welcoming our second baby in September. And right now we're living in a studio apartment so that we could save up quickly for um the emergency fund while I was pregnant. And

our lease is about to be up.

>> Okay. Yeah. Um how much do you guys bring home a month?

>> Um my husband brings home $5,320

per month. >> Okay, perfect. And are you home with the baby?

>> Yes, we have a toddler. Um, she's one and a half. >> Okay. So, great. Um, so the where you

guys are in Virginia, what would be an average rent for I don't know if you guys do like a twobedroom or a threebedroom or a small home, what what are you looking at rent-wise?

>> Um, it seems to be about like for something decent. Um, 1,300 to 1,500.

>> Okay. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I would say that's pretty doable. I mean, we say 25% of your income is

what should be for living expenses. Um, or for I'm sorry, for rent or mortgage.

So, that's about right. >> 1350 or so would get you right there.

And if it's, you know, 26%, it's not like anything's on fire. It's just a parameter to make sure that you have money left over to do things like save a down payment and invest and save for the kids' college and live your life and go on vacation because too many people have their house payment or rent at, you know, 50% of their take-home pay.

>> Yeah. So, if you guys upped it some, Catherine, for sure, I think that you can make that move because saving for the down payment, it may take you guys what, two, three years possibly of you renting somewhere to save that up. And yeah, I probably would not want to do that in a studio apartment with two little kids. I would like walls >> and separate rooms for the sanity of

everyone.

Yeah, cuz my husband, he actually works remotely. Um he um lost his job like

right before um I got pregnant with our daughter. So we took a big pay cut. And so um after we used that money from our house that we had bought um when we first got married to move down here >> and pay off all of our debt um because we just couldn't afford the mortgage, which was about $2,000.

>> Yeah. So we're just trying to figure out how we can save up as quickly as possible. Yeah, that's great.

>> Resetting with some peace this time >> for sure. Yeah. Do you guys have any more consumer debt that you're working on? >> No. None. >> Okay, great. So, yeah. So, it really is that down payment. Do you guys have kind of a goal that you're you're shooting for?

>> Um, we're hoping about 40.

>> Um, hopefully in like two and a half years. Um, >> just based off of the numbers right now.

My husband thinks he'll get a couple of raises, but I just don't want to base it off the money we don't have yet.

>> Sure. No, I get that. Don't count the chickens before they hatch. But I'm hopeful if he's if he's got that mindset, I think he will increase his income because he's going for it.

>> Well, and the fact that he was being paid more in his last job than the job he took. So, it makes me think he's marketable, right, at some level to >> to be able to be making more, too. So, that's that's exciting. >> I like that specific goal. 40 grand, 2 and a half years. That's a little over,300 a month. So, we have to be putting that away in a high yield savings account. We'll let it grow. Uh, and if you don't have a good one, Fairwinds is an awesome partner of ours.

You can go to fairwinds.org/ramsey and get a great high yield savings account to help your down payment fund.

Awesome. We're so excited for >> and pregnant with number two, you said, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. Congratulations. So exciting.

Yeah. I think with uh this is this is the change in lifestyle um or in life

that happens, life scenarios that does make you say, okay, what what do we need to shift to create some peace that's doable? And the beautiful thing is that Katherine and her husband freaking work their butts off to get out of consumer debt. So that $1,200, 1,300,400 in rent

is doable while saving more. If not, they would be paying two car payments that would equal that. You know, they wouldn't be able to save for a down payment if they still had debt. So >> those are heartbreaking calls when we get those.

So it's nice to see someone doing it right. >> I know. So that's the power you guys of getting out of debt and freeing up your income is that you can actually put money away and save for things that you want in the future. uh for you and your family.

So, Catherine, well done.

This show is sponsored by Better Help.

All right, May is Mental Health Awareness Month and according to the National Institute of Mental Health, more than one in five US adults experience mental illness every year.

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Today's question comes from Owen in New York. He says, "I make 124 grand a year

making two jobs, more than my parents ever earned. I bought a used car and went to a cheap instate college. My problem is that I can't afford a home.

and my parents, who are retired, have a $650,000 home. I live in upstate New York, where property taxes are a,000 bucks a month, and houses that aren't falling down, sell in 3 days. How can I possibly afford a home? And how do I stop being this angry about stolen from by about being stolen from by the boomer generation and their generation's government, which is ruining my relationship with my parents?

That got dark quick. >> Oh my gosh. >> I felt a little anger and then he just said it out loud. Hug Owen.

I feel like Owen needs a hug. >> Wow.

>> He's mad at the the entire boomer generation. >> How dare you? How dare you own a home?

>> Wow. And the generation's government.

>> Listen, I get kind of being pissed about the housing situation. That's understandable. It is. It is so crazy.

It is. It's wild how expensive.

>> I can't wait for Owen to have kids for them to They're going to be so mad at Owen's generation. You ruined everything. >> You ruined everything.

>> Listen. >> Oh no. Owen, >> why were you a child in 1992 instead of buying up a home? What were you doing, man?

>> What were you doing at three? >> That's the running joke. Okay. But I do feel his anger.

>> Yeah. >> And uh I actually mentioned >> not to that ext not to being mad at your parents. >> But I understand going I've done everything right. >> Sure.

>> Even debtree making six figures, it's still hard to afford a home where you want to live. >> Yep. >> No matter what your age is. And so I I get where he's coming from.

But the real question, how can I possibly afford a home is set a goal.

free, you should have no payments. And if you have reasonable rent right now, you should have a pretty good amount of margin in that 124 grand.

>> Yeah. >> To set aside in a high yield savings account to start saving up a down payment. I mean, we just talked to a couple right in the at this right before the break and they make they bring home 5,000 and she said they still can probably put away 1300 and that's with her and two kids and a husband.

>> Yeah. And he makes double that single, no kids. >> That's what I'm saying. So, like you can make some serious sacrifices to put some serious cash away. Um, and that's the that's the reality of what has to happen. Now, did that have to be true for your parents for as long as what you're going to have to do? Maybe not.

Maybe not. Uh, but it is the reality and I think that's what's hard is like it sucks and I think we can say that but then what's the next thing we're gonna do? Are we gonna sit and complain and be mad or are we gonna say okay let's get creative and figure out how can I put money aside to save up for a down payment and we say for first-time home buyers 5% um is a great goal right up to 20 is awesome to avoid PMI but 5% are you

going to have to drive 20 minutes further one direction than what you want maybe. I don't know. But so there's there's ways to do it and people are buying homes and maybe it's going to take longer and not specifically where you want to be. But that's that that's where we're at and that's the solution.

That's what we try to do on this show is like there's a lot of people that are just they just complain about it all day, which I get, but also >> venting can be fun for a little bit. >> Yeah, vent for some, but what are you going to do? What are you going to do after that? If you keep venting, you're going to be getting nowhere financially if you don't have a goal.

>> Yeah. Well, and there is some actual stats behind this anger. The median home price is now roughly six times the median household income. When you look back at the 1970s, it was like two times.

>> Yeah. >> So, it is hard. I don't want to minimize that. It is harder for a young person to save up for that home.

Part of it is structural. Part of it is supply and demand. Part of it is the interest rates during CO were so low now everyone's hanging on to their house because of the mortgage. >> Yeah. 2% rate or something.

>> So, no one's letting go of their homes. And you've got the boomers who have had these homes for a long time. They've appreciated and they're going to have a big tax bill if they sell. So, they don't want to get out.

But there is something, Rachel, I want to bring up that is actually happening right now in Congress. Oh, yeah. >> That could actually help a little bit. Okay.

>> So, it's not going to be like a silver bullet, but it's a a move in the right direction. >> So, you may have heard on the news these large institutional investors, firms that own hundreds of thousands of single family homes. You've heard private equity firms. Well, they've been buying up these homes at scale in cash out bidding regular families, which is really frustrating.

>> And so that makes it more difficult. And we believe homes are for people, not portfolios. And so there's actually a bipartisan bill working through Congress right now. It's called the 21st Century Road to Housing Act. And what's encouraging is the Senate version passed 89 to 10.

>> Oh wow. Of >> as bipartisan as it gets. So everybody is for these protections to keep large institutional investors from buying up more single family homes. So it's a it's a good bill and it actually could help some people buy a home. Could free up some of the supply. >> So it would basically stop these private equities of buying up residential homes.

>> It would force them to sell off within 7 years. And the ones that own 350 or more, they can't buy anymore. It just blocks them completely. And if you are renting one of those homes, you have the first right of refusal to buy that house.

>> So there's a lot of good things in the bill. Here's the catch, Rachel. This is government for you. So, the Senate passed that, but it goes to the House now.

Well, the House released their own amended version and they quietly stripped out these key provisions that gave the bill its teeth. So, they kept the name and they removed all the substance and the House vote is happening this Wednesday. And so, if this weekend version passes, these protections are gone, >> which sucks.

>> We do not want this House bill to pass.

And so, listen, I'm not a person who thinks I can sway government. But if this matters to you, and I think it should, I would let my House representative know >> to say no. >> Yeah. This is one of those times where you go find your rep.

60 seconds. Go to house.gov. We'll drop a link in the description to make it easy for you and tell them to keep the protections in place and to say no to this bill on Wednesday. And you know, Congress hears from lobbyists every day.

They almost never hear from regular people like you and I.

And we say all the time on the show, Rachel, you know, what happens in your house is more important than what happens in the White House. >> But there are structural things happening in the White House that can help the American people. I believe the government's job should be to create an environment that helps people win financially. >> That's right.

That's right. >> Not to solve our problems, but to be a part of that solution. So go to house.gov, finder rep. We'll drop a link in the description if you want to learn more about what's going on.

We'll drop a link to an article rep. >> Good bill in Congress, now bad bill that went to the house. So, I mean, as I was reading it, I was like, this is like a movie plot. It's like the bad guys are trying to swap it last minute to sneak it in.

And that this is how it all happens. It's like late night. They kind of sneak it through the door. Nobody knows about it.

No one has time to read it.

>> This is insane. This is why I'm not in politics, Rachel. It's too much stress for me. I want to actually We can help someone in seven minutes on this show.

>> I know. >> Congress has a hard time doing that. But I'm glad we're moving in the right direction. This is a good bill and everybody should care about it and say yes to that. >> Love it. >> But say no. >> Say no to the House bill. >> All right, but we are going to say yes to Mike in what is this? Uh Westchester, New York. Hi, Mike. Welcome to the show.

>> How's it going, guys? >> Good. How can we help?

>> Good. So, today I'm going to be talking about uh how I graduated in December from college. Um, and then I came out with about 21 grand in federal loans.

So, I'm still in my grace until August, but I've already paid off about 11 grand. >> Wow. Good for you.

>> Yes. Thank you. My question today is, do I continue on this path for about another four four or five months or do I

take out from my Roth and kind of just end all right now? Um, as far as as as a

student loans. >> Yeah, it's a great question.

Um, I would just keep at it. I would just keep cash flowing, paying this off because if you did take money out of your Roth IRA, that's a retirement account. And you will get penalized uh

by doing that and paying taxes too on it uh because you're not 59 and a half. So, that's going to be the key. You want to be able to um get that money out without that penalty. And so, I would keep that in, let it continue to grow. And yeah, in four months, uh Mike, well done.

You'll be you'll be student loan debtree. Do you have any other debt besides the student loan?

>> I'd say I drive a used car and I kind of just stay frugal.

>> Good for you. How much How much are you making?

>> I bring home about four grand a month.

>> Good for you, Mike. Well done.

>> Just keep at it. If you had nonretirement investments, like in a brokerage account, then we would say, "Yeah, let's sell those off and get rid of this debt even faster." But because it's in those retirement accounts, you can technically take out contributions, but then you're still unplugging all the growth. And at your age, if you actually map out what that cost is costing you over decades, >> way more than 10 grand, >> you'll be slapping yourself going, "What did I do? That could have been 150 grand or 500 grand." Way to go, man.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting with George Camel.

We are answering your questions at 888255225.

All right, let's head to Sam in Rono, Virginia. Hi Sam, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how are you guys doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, I'm 17 and I'm a business owner and I'm just wondering how I could build credit without using a credit card because I want to buy my first home within the next few years and just don't know where to start on that. Nice. Way to go, man. What are you making with this business?

>> Uh, right now I'm doing around two to three,000 a week.

>> A week? >> That fluctuates three? Yes, sir.

>> So, you're talking 100 to 150 grand a year at 17.

>> Yes, sir. Now, that is before taxes, but Yes, sir. >> What are you doing, Sam? That's amazing.

>> Uh, I'm a mobile mechanic.

>> Wow. >> Did you go to trade school for that?

Uh, I graduate in a month.

>> Way to go, >> Sam. We applaud you.

>> How do we clone Sam? >> Unbelievable.

>> Okay, >> that's so great. >> I love this. Okay, so you're trying to build credit because you want to buy a house one day >> in three years. He wants to be a homeowner >> by 20 years old. Well, here's the good news. You don't need credit to do that.

I know that sounds crazy coming out of my mouth. Do you believe me, Sam? First of all, do you trust me? I feel like Aladdin right now. >> I believe it is. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> So, the way to do that is through something called manual underwriting.

And it's something I've done personally.

And our friends at Church Hill Mortgage, they specialize in these. They've done tons of them for Ramsay fans who live

life outside of the stupid credit system we live in, which is go into debt to get a score so you can get more debt so you can hopefully pay that off perfectly to hopefully increase your score to hopefully get a higher score. Does it sound crazy to you?

>> Yeah. It does sound a little twisted >> because it is. And so manual underwriting instead of automated underwriting, which is let the computer decide if you should get the mortgage and let the three-digit number define your financial life. So instead, the lender will look at your your situation.

Do you have on-time rent payments, Sam?

>> Uh, I don't believe so. I I don't think I quite know what those are.

>> So, do you rent right now or do you live with family?

>> Uh, I live with my parents. So >> is the goal are you going to live there for the next 3 years while you save up?

>> Uh I'd like to rent eventually within the next year or two, but >> as of now, yes, I plan to stay there.

>> Okay. So you'll be required to show on-time rent payments, whether it's to your family or to a landlord if you decide to go rent elsewhere. But you'll need a year of on-time rent payments.

You need some utility bills in your name. So, you know, think water, electric, cell phone, internet, things that show that you pay your bills on time, that your insurance premiums are paid consistently, that you have strong employment history, that this business has done 100 grand for the last 3 years,

and some solid savings and down payment.

>> I gotcha. >> And if you have those things, you don't need to have the credit score in order to buy that home or get the mortgage.

>> Yeah. So Sam, if you were to live with your parents for the next three years, then I would be keeping track at least two years out um of rent >> of documented bank transactions going to mom and dad. >> So document those um if you put deposits in for rent and maybe they put one bill

in your name like internet or something, I don't know, and you pay something so that you have a bill or your cell phone um one or two bills that's tied to your name.

>> Oh I got you. That makes sense.

>> But yeah I mean you're >> if you keep doing this you're going to pay cash for a home and ignore the entire system. That's pretty wild.

What's your What's your savings goal right now?

>> Uh right now I'd like to have by the end of this year around 40,000 saved because I do want to possibly migrate into a shop space to rent at the end of this year. >> Yeah. Cool. >> And uh just grow my business that way.

>> It's amazing. Right now, >> what are your what are your monthly expenses?

>> Uh so I do have three vehicles. Uh, I do

have a lot of tools I have to go through to, I guess, keep my work going. And

besides that, just insurance, gas, uh,

basic utilities. >> Nice. >> And you're doing this all on your own >> currently. >> Yes, ma'am. >> A soloreneur. >> That's amazing, Sam. >> Great. All the cars are paid off, those three cars.

>> Uh, yes, sir. >> Nice. >> Okay, Sam, I want to implore you because you're doing above and beyond. I mean

the you're a 1enter when it comes to the 17 year olds in America and if you stick to this principle with your business Sam it is going to help you not only grow but create such peace and wisdom is do

not go into debt in your business. Okay.

So when you are 20 21 and you're like hey I need to go and get five more trucks and I need to do this and that.

I'm just going to go get a small business loan. You know whatever. Whatever. Say no. You're gonna get mailers, Instagram ads, emails telling you, "Hey, we'll give you a loan, Sam.

Scale your business. You deserve it." >> Yes. Move at the speed of cash with your business, Sam. Stay debtree.

>> And I promise you, it's the it's one of the number one things that takes small businesses out >> is is debt and overhead expenses like that. I mean, >> and the debt stays with you even if the business fails. That's right. They don't care. They still want their payment.

>> You are in the green. And so, stay there, Sam. Do not go into the red. do not go into debt for your business. Uh but man, well done. >> I mean, think about three years. If he lives off say 30 or 40 living at home and socks away almost a hundred a year for three years, that's 300 grand.

>> $300,000. >> That's mind-blowing. >> Which would buy, you know, possibly a small home >> in Rowan Oak. I'm sure you can find a home in Rowan Oak for 300 grand, especially as a young single man at 20.

That's pretty wild. So, there you go, Sam. And I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. I have a whole chapter on credit scores and how to live without it.

And I walk painstakingly through everything of how do you rent an apartment, how do you get a car, how do you buy a home without a credit score. And I hope it's a helpful gift to you cuz we uh we want to see you win. We believe in. >> Um, all right.

Sydney from Instagram asks, >> "If I only pay minimums on my higher debts and focus on the smallest debt payoff first, won't that put me further behind because those accounts will be occurring interest?

I mean, they're going to acrue interest no matter what because that's how debt works, unless it's a 0%. And in that case, the goal is to pay it off so aggressively that the interest doesn't matter all that much. Like, yes, you might be paying 50 bucks or 100 bucks or a couple hundred bucks in interest, but if you're throwing a,000 or 2,000 at it, you are faster than the interest.

>> That's right. >> That's the goal. >> And that's what I think people Yes.

Because when people do the math >> and they're like, "Well, shouldn't you pay off the highest interest rate first?

What you don't understand, number one, is the behavior change. What actually ends up happening with the momentum when you get a small win, our human spirit, it's it's how we're wired is that you get excited and you get more intense and you keep going and going and going versus trying to pay off the highest interest rate. Let's say it's a credit card. It's $30,000 for something, right?

And you're just like chipping away, but you got a $1,200 medical bill over here or things over here. When you just knock out the small ones and you combine all those minimum payments to keep throwing at the highest um the next highest debt,

it's incredible what happens. Momentum proven. I mean, it's not just a Ramsey thing. Like Harvard Business Review, MIT, they all have come out and said Dave Ramsey was right.

The debt snowball method is the best way to pay off your debt. It actually works. >> And to your point, George, when you're doing it this quickly, the average person is paying off all their debt in 18 to 24 months. The interest at the end of the day is just it ends up kind of just being a wash.

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Let's go to Ben in Cincinnati. Hi, Ben.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for having me.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, we just paid off all of our um

student loans and we took the financial peace class and it was worth it. Um, >> amazing. Congratulations.

>> Yeah. >> Uh, now we're just paying off uh we paid

off one other car. We have one more. We we're paying off our minivan and we just we bought a house last year. So, we're working on those. Uh we do have like

about 25k saved up in savings. Uh a little bit

for emergency and a little bit for the house emergency. But now, uh as we're working through that, how would you say we should start saving up for her retirement since her job doesn't offer it?

>> Okay. Um, so we got a couple things going on you guys. How much is how much is left on the car?

>> Uh, on the car we have is uh about

12,000. >> $12,000 left on the car. Okay. And then

>> you have $25,000 in savings. And then you're asking about your wife's retirement. So before we get there, >> we do want this car >> cleaned up. The debt. Yep. Yep. So, I would throw 12,000 at it today out of your 25. >> Okay. >> Which means you free up a payment. What's the payment on that?

>> Uh, the payment on that is about 300.

>> Boom. You just got a nice raise right there. >> Yep. So, then I would build that um emergency fund back up to what you guys need, 3 to six months of expenses, and you guys can pick in that range where you feel comfortable. And then you move on to maybe step four, which is retirement. So her company does not

offer like a 401k, 403b, no pension

plan, nothing.

>> No, it's just a small Christian school.

So they didn't have that in their offerings. >> Okay. As a benefit. Well, one thing she can do is open up a Roth IRA. And so she

can do that and fund is it what$7,000?

>> 7500 is the contribution limit. What's your household income >> altogether? Gross income.

uh alto together before taxes were about 90 together.

>> Okay. So if we So our plan the Ramsey

baby steps baby step one,000 emergency fund. You have that. Baby step two will knock out the consumer debt. You're about to do that today after you get off the call. Baby step three, let's fully fund that emergency fund at 3 to 6 months of expenses. Then baby step four is 15% of your household income going into retirement accounts. So for you guys, that's $13,500.

That's what we want to see put away in a simple order. If you have a match through your employer, let's take that first. Do you?

>> Yeah, I I already do that. And um I

think alto together with my employer putting in about uh 8%, I put in about

12%. So, um we're putting

>> So, you're putting in 12% of your >> income? Yeah.

>> And but then she's not putting away anything. >> Way before >> Yeah, that was way before we got married. I was already doing that. So, >> okay. And do you have a Roth 401k through your employer or just a traditional >> 403b? >> Okay. Do you have a Roth version of the 403b you have access to?

>> Uh, I I don't think so.

>> Okay. Add that to your homework assignment to ask HR if there's a Roth

version available and you might be able to sign in and see on on your 403b um login there. But if you do have that, I love that option because it's going to be after tax money, but then it grows taxfree forever. So imagine that's net income. If you have $2 million sitting there in retirement, that's like $2 million of take-home pay that the government doesn't touch again.

>> Okay? >> And I would bump yours up to 15%.

Now, on her side, 15% of her income now can go into that Roth IRA. And now we're at this collective 15% of household income. Do you see how that works? which is probably close to a little less than that$7,000. She may not fully max it out with her income. Um but yeah, I so I

would put yes 15% of hers into a Roth IRA. And then if your employer match goes up to 8%, you may want to take it down a few percentages to max out a Roth IRA on your end. Ben, >> if you don't have a Roth 403b option, the goal is get the match, move to all the Roth options that you can fund those, then move back to traditional options if you run out of Roth options.

But with your income, you guys won't you won't hit that. You'll be able to do all Roth there and uh and not run out of room. >> That's a great problem to have. >> Okay.

>> But right now, you're doing like three good things at once, which is making it bad because you're not you don't have much focus. So, like we said, if you knock out that car payment today, >> yes, >> get the emergency fund stock back up in a couple of months max, you're investing 15% with no problem of that household income. >> Well done. All right, let's go to New York City, one of my favorite places.

We have Sam on the line.

>> Hi. How are you guys? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today? >> Um, I'm good. Basically,

I'm really nervous. I >> You're good. I >> have a job. Yeah, I'm at a job for now.

I'd say three years. I hate it. Um, but

I make $120,000 and I have really no

other career path that would get me anywhere near that. >> What do you do? Um, but basically like I do bookkeeping for a big trash company.

>> Okay. >> But >> do you hate trash or do you hate bookkeeping?

>> No, I actually love trash cuz trash is feeding my family because my my base salary is really like 85,000

but I get another 25,000 25,000 annually

but I get another um through commissions. And they're not like, you know, one month, one month. These are in contract, you know, every month the same amount. >> And thank God it only goes up every month. >> That's cool. I never heard of a bookkeeper making commissions. Is it off trash? Like accounts, >> right? >> No, it's like Yeah, it's trash accounts.

>> So, the more accounts create, you get a piece of that. >> Yeah, exactly. The the companies that >> Why do you hate it, Sam? What's going on that you're like, I hate my job?

>> So, I'll tell you coming to to work, I love coming here. It's like an awesome a great place to work, but the actual work

like I feel like there's a lot more I have to add to this planet than doing bookkeeping, which I hate.

>> And what is that thing you have to add to this planet?

>> I don't know. >> You just feel it. You just feel this like gnawing feeling that like this is not it. >> Yeah, there's something more.

And I just need to know how do I a find out what that is and b how do I get there? M >> well that's where I was I was joking about the trash versus bookkeeping but sometimes you're doing the right thing in the wrong place. >> Sometimes you're doing the wrong thing but in a great place and there might be a different seat on the bus as we say and so that's where I'm digging in.

>> Do you look around and see a position that you're like oh man that would be something I think I could really add value and be really good at. Oh, >> no. Like the positions are really pretty booked up. Like I think if someone outsider came in to run the company, probably half the people would lose their job. >> Do you want more of a challenge? Like are you kind of bored because you're like, "All right, knock that out. What else?" >> For sure. >> Okay. Have you brought that up to your leadership?

>> Yes, I have.

Everything here runs very not there's a word for it like very monop like it's not >> like there's no the company's very successful but it's not very efficient.

I'm trying to think for the right the right word. >> Yeah. Well, that's what I'm wondering. Are there opportunities where you go, hey, I noticed this over here. I know in my bookkeeper seat it feels a little bit out of bounds, but could I try this little challenge over here and see if I can solve that and create some efficiencies in the business? If I'm the business owner, I'm so excited to have Sam on my team.

So, that's where I'm wondering. And if you run out of those opportunities or they're not giving them to you over a long period of time and it's a there's a soul tax you're paying, then I would look for a different opportunity where there is a bigger challenge for you.

Maybe it's a more senior role. Maybe you're in leadership, maybe you're solving a bigger problem. And so, that's where I go. You might be doing the right thing and you're just not in the right seat right now.

>> Right? But the thing is that when you have, you know, three kids, a wife, a mortgage, the whole thing, um, not that

the wife is a tax, that helps, but when you have that many things going on, it's hard to just switch jobs.

>> Yeah. You have a responsibility to put food on the table. So, yeah, you don't want to neglect that by any means. >> We would never tell you to have a gap in income.

>> No, but I do wonder for you kind of searching >> Yeah. yourself. And just to say, hey, what else is out there? Um, if you hold on the line, we're going to get you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

Uh, there's a great assessment on the back in the at the end of that book. And that may just be a good place just to kind of start jogging some ideas in your mind and start thinking through. And it may be at this company, it may be something totally different. And it may take 6 months, it may take a year and a half.

But, uh, sometimes these these decisions are slow and the awareness can be, you know, take some time.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Are you sick and tired of working so hard but feeling like you have nothing to show for it? That so many people we talk to where they work and work, make a paycheck, but then they look up and they're like, I just still feel like I am broke and it's gone. >> Yeah, I feel like I'm broke. So, if that is you, make sure to check out our Every Dollar app.

So, Every Dollar the budgeting app, it helps you find extra money every single month and it builds you a personalized plan to help you beat debt and build wealth. And you can do all of this in 15 minutes, you guys, and find thousands of dollars that is hidden in margin that you don't even know you have.

>> There you go. So, you guys, don't be normal. Live like no one else and start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. That is one app, George.

Shameless plug. It's I I plug in I I tap

on a couple of apps every single day >> out of habit. >> Weather Channel app. I still love my Weather Channel. >> Wow. I'm I feel like a boomer, but I do.

I love a Weather Channel app. Uh email, Instagram, and Every Dollar.

>> That's it. >> I do. I Those are those are like a routine for me. I'll go through and look. Yeah. >> A simple woman. >> But every dollar it is. I'm like tracking those transactions.

Feeling good about May. Put teachers gifts in there this weekend. That's right. But yeah, when you do it all, you're like, "Okay, this I feel organized. I feel in control." >> You can't keep it all in your head.

People go, "What do I do a budget mentally?" I'm like, "Bet." And can I say if you have kids have a higher miscellaneous fund than ever before because who knew you had to sign up for they don't tell you until last minute in May and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I'm signing up for soccer in May for fall. I didn't plan that." Put that in the miscellaneous category. So, but it helps. >> It does. Even though it takes the stress out of the chaos of life.

>> Yes, it's wonderful. So, again, there's a free version. You guys make sure to check it out. Build your budget. Actually be intentional with where your money is going. All right, let's head to Nick in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Nick.

Welcome to the show. >> Hi, thanks for having me. >> Yes, absolutely.

>> My wife and I are about to have our first child. We're in our mid30s.

>> Congratulations.

>> Thank you so much. We uh so I have money

in an investment account um that would

cover all of our debts if I were to sell it. And I don't know that I want to do

that. We have about we're we're just about millionaires in total. Um that's

mostly tied up in retirements. Um I have

been in school for 10 years. Uh my wife

has her masters. I have a bachelor's.

It's a long story, but I had to restart because the school went under. Uh luckily no debt from that. So we managed to pay off all of my school loans. Um, we owe about 180,000 total and that's

her student loans, the house and

um about 15k in credit card debt.

>> Okay. How much is just the student loans, Nick?

>> It's about 50,000.

>> 50,000. How much was the credit card debt? You said >> about 15k. >> 15. Okay. So, that's the consumer debt >> and 130 left in the mortgage.

>> Yes, that's correct. >> And how much is in the stocks?

Um, it's just under 200,000. Um,

>> okay. >> So, my company pays me RSUs and I haven't touched it since I started this company. >> Is all the is is all the 200,000 in the

company stock?

>> Correct. >> Okay. Single stock >> and it's single stock and it's up 168%.

>> Well, that's some good return. >> Good time to sell. That's exciting. Have you factored in what the taxes would be if you sold?

>> Um, I haven't factored that in. I just

found your guys' show recently um and

started listening. >> Okay. >> So, this was just >> Yeah. >> Uh, with her pregnancy, she had a health scare. Uh, luckily everything is fine, >> but now I'm like, um, >> they had thought that she had a heart issue and then went to a specialist and ended up she didn't, but they were concerned she would die during labor.

Oh my gosh. >> Do you guys have liquid cash at all?

>> We have about 18K in liquid cash.

>> Okay, good. Okay, perfect. Perfect.

Okay, >> so you could pay off the debt and still have the 18K left over as your emergency fund. >> Exactly. >> And have no mortgage payment or any other payment which frees up how much if you added up those payments per month?

Credit cards, student loans, mortgage.

>> So my wife and I do things a little differently. We have two accounts. Her income goes into an account that pays for our food, gas, everything that we would need monthly. And my account just pays the bills. And I say my account, we're attached to both accounts. We see what goes in, we see what comes out.

It's just how we've divided it since

>> Can I just ask, Nick, why don't you just put it all on one account and everything comes out of one account?

>> Um, we had no money when we started

dating in 2010. when we were high school sweethearts. Um, and we decided that by

doing it this way, we worked while we were in college and we made sure that all of our bills were paid and we've always just done it that way.

>> Okay. Do you think things can change? Do

you think a mindset of an 18-year-old

maybe could make some tweaks and some adjustments now that you're going to be parents and you're grown-ups and you're 30 years old and you both have careers?

>> Yep. Uh that's that's what I'm going through right now is like um we weren't

planning to have kids necessarily.

>> Not that it wasn't unplanned either. Um but it wasn't something that we were like we're going to have kids. We were like we're going to live, we're going to travel, we're going to do things that we want to do first. >> Totally. Totally.

>> With my college stuff happening, we uh

ended up not doing as much of that and focusing more on that. Okay. Um, so over

the time I've only had like two full years out of college. I graduated.

>> Gotcha. How much you guys make a year, you and your wife? >> Uh, so not counting the RSUs, we make

260,000 roughly. With the RSUs, it's about 320.

>> Okay. Is she going to be working still, Nick? Do you think after the baby's here? >> That's her plan. She She's a social worker. She gives like she helps the

community locally through her job.

>> How much does she make? How much out of the 260 is hers?

>> 110. >> 110. Okay. Um Yeah.

>> Okay, that's great. Yeah. So, just I mean you called in. Can I just give you a couple of maybe random thoughts I have about your situation?

>> Yep. >> Okay. So, we talk about when you are pregnant, we have a thing called stork mode. Meaning if you are trying to get out of debt, we pause the debt snowball

and we just save a bunch of money to the side in case something happens. Okay.

Now, that is with people doing the true baby steps, which means they've already done baby step one, which is they take everything down to $1,000. If you could

imagine, Nick, yes, people take everything down to a,000 while getting out of debt. you guys will not have to do that because you have $18,000 saved

and $200,000 in stock. So, I would not

count stok mode for you um because you guys have that money uh that you will you will have enough money even if you paid off all of your debt, if that makes sense. So, if I woke up in your shoes, I

would I probably wouldn't pay off the house right now, but I would go ahead and wipe the consumer debt and just be done with the 65,000.

And then once baby comes, everyone's

good, mom's good, baby's good, then yeah, I mean I I might have a discussion to say, hey, what if we aggressively paid off the house and had and it just had no debt. Like we we had complete autonomy over our money, which is pretty crazy the fact that we can even have this discussion, Nick, that this is a possibility for you guys. So that's what I would do in your situation. I'd go ahead and pay everything off. And if you hate not having a mortgage,

you can go and get another mortgage if you want. You know, you can borrow against your house. So, >> I mean, you're probably going to get like a three or $4,000 raise if you paid off all of your debts, including the mortgage, right?

>> Yeah. I mean, this year has not been good for us financially. We had a lot of setbacks this year. We were basically debtree coming into the year. Um,

>> and then we had house problems. Our basement flooded. We had uh had to dig a

new sump pump line. Um our dog has been

sick. He's 16 and kidney failure and

stuff like that. >> That's even more reason to be completely debtree, man. You have that money back in your life. You just sold yourself on becoming debtree.

And you're probably going to have, you know, maybe 15% capital gains on the money that's appreciated. Not from what you bought it for, but the gap from what you bought it for to what it's worth today. That might be 20 grand. And look, lo and behold, that's 180 grand you can throw at your debt.

>> Gosh, I would feel good. I like wade your toes in the water by paying off the consumer debt. Once the baby's here, I think you'll go, you know what? Let's liquidate the rest.

>> Yeah. And then relationally, Nick, you and you know, I I would love to see you guys see yourselves more as one financially. This is our household. This is our family.

The money that comes into the household in one account. How do we run our household out of this account versus diving it up?

Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories.

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Our scripture of the day comes from 1st Samuel 16:7.

The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. Nathan Morris said, "I've

found that the stuff, sorry, I have found that the less stuff I own, the less my stuff owns me." >> Such a minimalist. >> Look at that. >> Before time. >> It's a little bit like a the Dave Ramsey quote of it's okay to have nice stuff, just don't let your nice stuff have you.

>> I wonder if that's where Dave got it from. >> I don't know how. Who's Nathan Morris?

Do we know? We'll Google him real quick.

Let's find out. >> Probably from a different era. >> Should we know him? >> Is he an evangelist? >> He's not a president.

>> He's not. I really hope it's the founding member of Boys to Men.

>> Is it? >> I mean, that is a Nathan Morris. I don't think it's the same one, but the credit.

>> Yes. >> Author of The Art of Getting Money, personal finance expert. Boo.

>> Boo. Boys to Men lead singer will be so much more. >> In my heart, it will always >> Kelly work on our quotes of the day. We need some boys to men. I'm sure they said something, you know, really profound about stuff and money and life.

>> I'd like to say that boys to men said it. I found that the left stuff I own, >> they probably stuff owns me.

>> You should give a little tune, George.

No, but that Yeah. The the it's okay to have nice stuff, don't let your nice stuff have you >> is a great balance because your stuff having you is you go into debt for it.

The borrower slave to the lender. You don't own it. You owe on it. So it has you and the identity contentment piece is really big that >> where your treasure is >> there your heart will be also >> there you go >> look at you quoting another >> not just about debt but it's >> what is the chokeold that material goods have on you >> and you can't take it with you >> you can't nope and so it's it's fun to have stuff right >> I've seen Left Behind they you can't even take your pants all right they'll be folded neatly on the bed every time I still see clothes folded on a bed I freak out a little bit >> that's that movie scar >> trauma.

All three.

>> They read they gave me the kids version.

>> Listen, you get left behind the first time. You get left behind three times.

That's on you. That's on you.

>> Oh lord. Okay. Uh Emily, God bless you,

Emily. Sorry that you round us out, but uh yeah, in Idaho Falls, we have Emily.

Hey, Emily. What's up?

>> Hi. I am just calling in to ask my husband and I just had our fifth baby.

We're almost done with baby step three,

but we are growing out of our house

and um we have an unfinished basement.

We're just trying to figure out if it's financially wise to take out a loan to finish the basement. We're feeling really on top of each other right now.

>> Yeah, seven people. That's a lot.

>> What's it going to cost to do the basement? >> So, we estimate it'll be about um $40,000 to do the basement. For context,

we are in a three-bedroom as is. Um, so

I have two kids in each room and a baby who's going to need a room soon. Um, so

we owe 200K on our mortgage and it's at a 2.3. So moving just makes no sense.

Neither does refinancing. So we're trying to figure out if a loan to do the

basement would make sense. Um, another

piece of information, our current mortgage payment is below 5% of our

take-home. >> Okay. How much do you guys bring home a month?

>> About 10.

>> 10,000. Okay. >> Mortgage excluded. Would you guys just go buy a different home right now if you could? >> Absolutely not. We love our neighborhood. We love our home. We love the lot our home is on. It's our

favorite. >> Okay. So, you want to make this home work no matter what. How much do you have in the emergency fund?

>> About 30. Well, by the time I said we're

almost done with baby step three. When we're done, it'll be at about 35.

>> Okay. Cuz I I think you can just cash flow this. I mean, that newborn baby's going to sleep next to you for the first couple of months, right?

>> Yeah. It did take us I mean, we have a lot of kids. It took us about four years to get that fund put together.

>> But you bring home 10K a month. You said

>> we do. Yeah. Um, our food bill is more

than our mortgage.

>> Okay. Yeah. Cuz you said the mortgage is 5%. So I went, can you save up a couple grand? >> I was going to say, yeah. Could you could you guys like really kind of go crazy and just say we're going to save four grand a month and in 10 months we'll have it all. And you can even start planning and like doing things even before that.

>> Yes. Yeah. So we do have we have been

doing that. Um, we're just we're like I

said, we're really on top of each other.

I've got the baby. My husband also just started a new job where he'll be working from home sometimes and his current I

mean he doesn't have an office because that's the only >> Yeah, you got three bedrooms. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> So, what are you going to do with the basement? Is it going to be a bedroom, an office, and you're going to parse it out? >> Um, so it's got space for four bedrooms.

We are hoping to get a quote to do just,

you know, two bedrooms initially.

>> Um, kind of leave the plumbing and stuff for later in the bathroom.

>> Well, >> but I would imagine we're still looking at 20K for that.

>> That feels reasonable. >> Yeah. I mean I mean, Emily, yeah, we're not going to tell you to take out a loan. So, you called the wrong show. I'm so sorry.

>> No, it's okay. I want you guys to do advice. >> Yes. So, what I would do though is start

meeting with some cuz I think if you guys really could buckle down and save 3 to four grand a month, you could actually start to cash flow this and get it at least starting. You don't have to have all 40 grand at the beginning. You know, you could you you could start some of this in six months. When when is the baby due?

>> Oh, he's uh a couple months old.

>> Oh, he's here. Okay. I'm so sorry. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, I mean, honestly, I Yeah, that's what I would do. I would just make an aggressive goal uh to save, you know, 15,000, start the process and you guys just be putting cash away every single month and be cash flowing it as the project is going so that you can get it done faster, you know, versus waiting and having it all saved up.

>> That's what I would do personally just to get the ball rolling because I know the urgency in it. Yeah, but we

uh yeah, I mean, we're not going to >> you work too hard to get debtree. So, why go back in and restart the whole process and it just it's it's not the

move cuz you're going to build this thing. You're going to feel it. You're going to be paying for it versus saving up and paying cash. You treat it differently.

You're going to get multiple bids. You're going to be very strategic with every move and why you do it. When you take out a loan or even worse, a heliloc, you go, "Well, let's just take out more. Let's just really go big with it since we're already here." That's what most people do.

They use their house like a piggy bank and they just keep moving backwards. And you guys make so much money. You're doing so great. I know it feels chaotic right now and you got a newborn which is not helping anything as far as your exhaustion of feeling like >> you know been a great sleeper.

So thank goodness for that. >> Well and what you could do too which may scare some people but you have 30 grand in the emergency fund. You know you guys could say well it only really takes us you know7,000 to live off of. So technically 21,000 could be a threemonth.

21,000, you know, could be okay for a bit if that if you want to take some to >> get through the project and then refill it. >> Yep. And then jump start it. >> If you had an emergency, you pause the work until you're back to some stability. >> Y >> and I think you can cash flow this and you'll get to the end and be thankful that you don't have a loan to pay.

>> I mean, seriously, it Yeah. And George,

you you hit on it, but I just do want to reiterate when you do things with cash, there is something more subconscious that goes into the care at which the

planning process is happening, the speed at which people do the the changes. If there's changes, um, you're thinking about those so much more in a diligent way than when you borrow. It's a little bit like, oh, okay, if that's an extra five grand, tack it on, we'll figure it out later. >> Add it to my tab. >> Yeah. There can be a little bit of that feeling. And so it really does force you to stay in a time frame and in a budget.

I mean, that's what Winston and I found when we did our pool project and when we built our house in 2019. Like it's it's a different game when you're cash flowing something like that, a big project. So, it's um >> it moves slower, but with that comes a whole lot of peace. >> Absolutely.

It takes more patience on the front end, right, to get to have the cash to do it. But in the process, you're just a Yeah, I think you're just a little bit more paranoid about it because you're like, "This cannot go over. This just can't go over. What do we have to figure out?

>> But I mean, if you were running a budget for a company, you're going to go, I got to stay within the budget, and we can't take on any debt. So, once you take the debt off the table, it just changes things. And that's really helped me go, well, if I don't feel good about spending that much on it, maybe it's a sign. >> That's right.

>> So, if you're willing to finance it, but not willing to pay depart with all that cash. That's your body saying, "This is a big purchase. Are you sure?" >> Yes. >> And debt removes all of that.

It makes it frictionless to get all these things that you want now. And you signed a bunch of dotted lines that said, "Nope, you owe us with interest." >> Yes, with interest.

Yep. Absolutely. Well, thank you, Emily.

Uh, and good luck to you guys. Uh, George, great show. Always always fun hosting with you. Uh, thanks to everyone in the booth. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that is to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 135. Shortcuts Won’t Help You Get Ahead With Money | May 4, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Pick up the phone. Give us a call if you want the right next step for your life and your money. Omar is kicking us off in New York City. What's going on, Omar?

Hey. Hi. How are you? Um, so I'm a

30-year-old general dentist living in the northern New Jersey, New York City area. Graduated from dental school back in May 2024 with around $510,000

in student loan debt.

>> Uh, I've been paying it off aggressively uh since the last eight months when I started working. So, I'm around $450,000

in student loan debt. Um, and I'm kind

of just wondering how exactly to prioritize that. You know, I'm looking to buy my own dental practice in the upcoming years. I'm married with a daughter, so hopefully a home. Um, so

I'm wondering, do I pay it aggressively and solely focus on that or pay a good chunk towards there and also some savings for my practice and for a house in the future? >> I mean, what you just said is is the exact key. You've got to figure out how to prioritize this. And it sounds like you were doing a good job of that the past eight months, the fact that you paid off $60,000 of this lickety split,

which I think is good. Um, if you're asking George and I, which you are, I would tell you that the priority here does need to be this debt. I certainly would not um go into further debt with a medical practice. I love the idea of home ownership, but at the same time, if I imagine being in your shoes already having 450 and then piling another, I

don't know, five or 600 on top of that um in mortgage debt, that I don't know how it makes you feel, Omar, but that makes me start to start to quiver. You know what I'm saying? Like I my armpits start to sweat a little bit. And so for that reason, >> my my take on this and and and this is

just a a Ramsay worldview I would say is that here we believe that your biggest wealth building tool is your income. And so in order to have your income at your full disposal, right at your fingertips, you've got to make sure that portions of that are not being sucked up by debt payments. And so for you having $450,000

of student loans, yes, you make a great income, but that's still money. and that's that's being sucked up and it's still risk that you're adding into your life. And so our path here is all about

you finding your way, yes, to wealth, but also to financial freedom and peace.

And freedom and peace are emotional aspects of money that get left out a lot. And so for that reason, I would say absolutely prioritize the student loans first and foremost.

>> Okay. So, you know, while paying off my student loans, uh this may be dumb to say, but I kind of just wanted to save some on the side. So, my wife and I, we've been putting every month in or so some into our high yield savings, and I do have around, I would say, 55,000 in high yield savings. Good.

>> And I just don't know, should I dump that into my suitable or just keep it as is? >> Yeah, I would. So, here we teach a series of baby steps.

>> Yeah, I am. So then you know that baby step one for us is a starter emergency fund. And I'm going to blow your mind and probably some people's minds who are listening right now when I tell you that that starter emergency fund is only $1,000. So essentially, yeah, you'd be taking 54,000 of the 55 and throwing it

at these student loans and knocking them down to 395. But doesn't that feel amazing?

>> It does. Yeah. And if you had an emergency, what would likely happen is you take that next paycheck and apply to the emergency instead of the debt.

>> And so making your kind of money, there's very few emergencies that would exceed your paychecks in a month.

>> Yeah. So, you know, one of the main reasons for my call is because the last over the last few months, I've been putting every single cent into my loans and stopped funding my high yield savings account. And my wife and I just weren't, sure, is that the best idea?

Um, and I kind of just want to hop on this call and just get that little relief, you know? >> Yes. Yeah. You're doing the right thing.

Even though it feels weird because like, well, I've been told it's good to save.

Sure. It's also kind of scary to have half a million dollars owed to a lender and those payments are coming due whether you like it or not. So, the faster you get rid of these loans, the faster we can live our life. And, uh, I'm happy that you're a a practicing dentist and you made it through, making good money. How much are you actually making?

So, uh, I'm only eight months in. I after taxes, I take about 16,000 a

month. >> Great. Great. Great. >> And right now you're applying what you told me about 7,500 a month >> toward your debt. >> Yeah. So, last the last few months I've been putting around 10 to 11,000.

>> Good. Well, let me do some math for you because I did it just to give you some encouragement. If you did 7,500 a month toward the debt, you're done in 5 years.

If you do 9375, you're done in four years. But here's the plan. And I want you to aim at three years. You can pay off this debt if you put 125 towards it every month.

>> That's aggressive, right? >> Three years fly by. Yeah. And three years fly by pretty quick. >> But then you got to learn how to live off four grand a month for your life. So if you can keep living like a broke college student, even with a kid, with your wife, and go, hey, 36 months of sacrifice, so the next 36 years can be filled with freedom. That's what you're really doing.

>> Yeah. And do you think your do you think your income will go up at all in those three years?

>> Yeah. So I mean I'm projecting my income

uh in the next couple years to go up to at least you know 20 30% more.

>> Amazing. There you go. So with every increase you get in income, don't go increase your lifestyle. Instead increase your debt payments.

>> Yeah. >> That way it's done in less than 36 months because you have too many goals to be just just scraping by making minimum payments. You want to own a house. You want to own a practice.

And the best path to that is to clear the decks, get rid of the debt, rebuild the emergency fund, and now you're able to cash flow. Think about now you got 16 or 20 grand free to do whatever you want with to stack up for a down payment or for a practice. It's a different ballgame. >> Correct.

>> And and I just want to I want to add to that what George is saying because there you can walk away from this conversation with two points of view. One is what we're saying, which is, hey, the the quicker you get it done, the quicker you can get about the business of, yeah, saving up for a down payment, saving up for the practice, all those fun things, right? Or you can walk away from this conversation and go, oh, two two to three years, that feels too long. That doesn't sound fun.

I'm not going to do it.

start on the house and and stack up more debt there. And I'd rather think about this practice and stack up more debt there. Right? So, this really is going to point to what mentality do you want to have in life?

Do you want to be a person who can short-term sacrifice for a while for a long-term gain, right? Can you have the foresight to say, "If I just really lock in," and I think you have that foresight. You're a dentist for crying out loud, right?

Yeah. And so the biggest blocker for you, Omar, is not going to be you and your wife. It's going to be your friends, your family, your peers going, "Dude, Omar, what are you doing, man?

You should have a nice house by now. You should be driving a nicer car.

>> You should have your own practice." And you're going to be going, "Nope, I am laser focused on this debt right now." But the truth is, most dentists dentists won't take the advice that we're giving you right now. And also, most dentists are broke. >> Yeah. >> They have a huge house with a huge payment.

They have luxury cars with a huge payment. They have practices with a million dollar loan on them while they're still trying to pay down their student debt. >> That's what a lot of people, my colleagues have been telling like, you know, just pay the minimum, open up your practice, uh, and just worry about it later.

>> Oh, the old the old down the road trick.

That's right. When life gets so much easier, we have less responsibility and chaos, right? >> Dude, do it now. Your life will never be as simple as it is now. And I promise you, if you hate it on the other side when you're debt free, owning a practice free and clear with a house payment you can actually afford, if you hate it, call us back and you can yell at us. I give you permission.

Let's talk about something nobody wants to think about until it wrecks their budget. Medical debt. Medical debt is one of the biggest financial landmines in America today. And that's why Health Trust Financial is the only health insurance provider Ramsay recommends.

You guys, a lot of people have medical debt, even with health insurance, because you can pick the wrong plan, pay big monthly premiums, and still get slammed with huge out-of-pocket costs later. And if you're self-employed or you run a small business, you're paying 100% of that bill. But Health Trust Financial Shops multiple top-rated carriers with no extra cost or pressure to help you get the right plan while finding you big savings. And they don't just look at the cheapest one, they help you understand deductibles, networks, out-of-pocket costs so you don't get surprised later.

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Megan is in San Antonio up next. Megan, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Thank you so much. >> How can we help today?

>> So, I'm a single mom with three young kids. I've been divorced for about six years and after the divorce, my mom moved in with us and so I support her, but she helps with the kids. Um, I've worked very hard to get to baby step four since the divorce, but now I feel stuck. Um, my take-home after taxes is

about 6,200 a month. And I recently put

my house on the market just because we live in a very tight space. Um, it's three bedrooms, two baths for the five of us. I'm sharing a bathroom with my three kids. >> So, my question is, would it be smarter to deal with the living space that we have currently to have sooner financial freedom? Or should I make the sacrifice to get a bigger space than my kids have more room while they're growing up?

>> Wow. Well, first of all, you have done an incredible job. I mean, coming out of one of the hardest seasons of your life, you have just scratched and clawed and taken care of those kids and gotten out of debt and taken care of your mom. You are you're a hero. You're a warrior.

>> Thank you. >> So, just know that the path looks different for you. It's not as easy as it is for some people with two incomes and nobody to take care of. And so, it's going to look different. So, let's talk through this decision. You bringing home 6,200. What is your current mortgage payment?

>> It's 1,800 a month.

>> Okay. Not including insurance.

>> Oh, what is it with insurance?

>> Um, it's another 150 for insurance.

>> Okay. So, about 1950 all in for principal, interest, taxes, insurance,

>> correct? >> Okay.

And this house that you would get, what is that going to cost you? Is it equivalent? Is it going to be a lot more as far as the mortgage? be it would be

more pro. If I were to get a 15-year

mortgage, it would probably be 23 at

least. >> Oh, boy. Okay. And is there opportunity

for you to make more at work? What is the sort of path for growth look like?

>> Um, I was just recently promoted, so I

don't see any other promotions happening anytime soon. >> Okay. I'm a nurse, so I do pick up extra shifts on the weekend, but it's hard to

balance that with also wanting to spend time with the kids, too.

>> Yeah. >> I wonder um so you said you have this deal with your mom. She's living there.

In exchange for that, she helps with the kids. >> Is there is she unwell? Is there anything that precludes her from having her own space >> at this point? me. It's just my my

schedule is very um sporadic. So, I can

get called in in the middle of the night and so that way if she's there and I need to leave to go to work, she's the kids will be taken care of.

>> Here's where I'm here's where I'm trying to solve so that you kind of know my train of thought. You're already over slightly what we would say is kind of that baseline for where your mortgage wants to fall. 25% of your take-home. In a perfect world, your mortgage would be like $1,550, right? and it's already $1,950. I would have a hard time telling

you, hey, yeah, go up in mortgage, go up to 2,300 because that's going to make you house poor for all intents and purposes. And I would not want that for you. So, I in my opinion, we need to look for solutions that don't cause you to pay more money per month for your living space. And the the first thing that I'm looking at is freeing up space.

And already, did you say it's a 32?

>> Yes. >> So, freeing up some space there. I'm fine with the kids sharing a room. I'm fine with a kid sharing a bathroom.

But it feels like with your mom in that space, it's causing difficulty. So, in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, is there a way that mom can move to maybe she's in an apartment that's really close by that if you do have to do something in the middle of the night, it's easy for her to come by. Um maybe there's some future planning that we can do to to to mitigate some of that that craziness in the night. But do you see what I'm saying?

I don't think going up in mortgage payment is going to solve the problem.

>> I think that's probably true. That's why I'm >> and you likely couldn't invest it on the market. >> You're probably going to have to forego investing and go, "Well, I can't afford the 15% investing. I need that money to afford the mortgage and all the bills." That's the other part that worries me is we put a total halt on your wealth building.

>> And so, this might just be a not now. It might be, let's wait a year, let's build up some more equity, let's keep knocking down the mortgage so that we have more to put down on the next house, bringing the mortgage down. Or we go, is there a house that's actually bigger, that's maybe a little further out, but it fits our family and we can keep that payment to 1,600 bucks a month.

other option. Is is there other houses out there? Have you actually looked with a real estate pro to see what the options are?

Yeah, it's just unfortunately everything around here th those are pretty much the cheapest options >> to stay near your employer, near schools, all that.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And what is the long-term plan with mom? Is she able to afford her own place? Is she able to eventually take care of herself?

I know she 100% could, but I feel like

there's an obligation to support her because she retired a couple of years early to move in with us.

>> When you say obligation, is that financial or is that she can't physically take care of herself?

>> No, no, she can take care of herself. I just feel like the expectation on her part is that I will take care of her since she made a sacrifice >> to take care of the kids. How old are the three kids? Yes.

>> Um, five, six, and eight.

>> So, they're all in school, right? The 5-year-old is in kindergarten.

>> Yes. But I homeschool them, so she helps

with that, too. >> Interesting. Yeah. I I can point to a couple of places. Now, this is a values conversation, but I can look at a couple of places where there might be room to

move. And again, it's when I say move, I mean something to shake loose. But it's really up to you on on how important those things are because uh if you told me, "Yeah, my kids are in school um and grandma looks after them when they come home from school at 3:00 or at 3:30, whatever the time is," then I'd go, "Okay, well, you know, that makes it makes does that make sense? You wouldn't have to feel so much of an obligation to her." Um, but when you tell me, "Oh, no,

she's she's basically working a full-time job by homeschooling them and taking care of them," I see why you feel such a strong obligation there. And unfortunately, if you continue to choose that, I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying it's it's your values. If you continue choosing that, then what you're also choosing is we live in a smaller place where we're cramped.

>> And that's okay. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard to have it all sometimes. But I want to address the the expectation because it seems like there's some unhealthy entitlement creeping in here.

And I get that she's sounds like a wonderful woman. She's helping take care of your kids. And while she expects you to take care of her, you didn't expect to go through a divorce, decimating her life, crawling out of debt, taking care of three kids on a single income. And so there's also this resetting of expectations of mom, in a perfect world, I would love for you to be able to live with us, but unfortunately right now everything's tight.

we don't have anywhere to go and we need a little bit of our space back. I still would love for you to help in this way and you get you get a vote here too. >> But that's kind I see what you're saying like I I think that you're viewing it as this is her pay. Like I can't give her salary for the things that she's doing.

Is is am I looking at that right? Mhm.

>> So if you say, "Mom, move out but still do all these tasks for me." It's kind of like she's working for free.

>> Yeah. >> And she can't afford to do that,

>> right? >> Yeah. I mean, she has social security, but >> she's just living off of social security. >> Okay. So, she can't afford it either.

>> What's her payment every month or what's her income total? Um, I think she gets I

know she has a lot in investments, but she's worried that if she were to ever get sick or need a retirement home as she got older that all of that money would be needed for that, which I understand. >> Makes sense. >> Um, but Social Security is 2500 a month.

>> All she pays for is her insurance, which is about 300 a month.

>> Okay. >> I think you guys have a deal here. And it it seems like, you know, it's a quid

proquo. you got your part out of it, she gets her part out of it. And I think that there's just some parts of it that are uncomfortable. And I think that's just part of dealing with to George's point, >> you're you're a single mom making it with three kids and there's going to be I mean, I don't have to tell you, you already know, you're well acquainted with with the sacrifice and the struggle here.

And I think that this is just part of it for this season. >> And the other option, Megan, I'm just throwing it out there.

But you could get the new house, 2,300 a

month, and she pays 700 bucks so she can have her own room and space >> and that could solve a few problems.

Now, it doesn't solve the long term cuz if she moves out, you're stuck with that payment. But it could in the short term alleviate some of these issues, but it sounds like right now you just got to wait, keep knocking out that mortgage with the equity, and then eventually we can make this move once we are capped.

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Go to ramseolutions.com/giveaway right now to enter. No purchase necessary to win. Joseph is in Minneapolis up next. What's going on, Joseph? >> Hey, how's it going? How are you?

>> Great. What's going on with you today?

>> Nothing much. I just have a quick question about uh so my wife and I are expecting our first at the end of the year and we're trying to pay down some consumer debt. Uh so we've looked at

balance transfer cards. Um we have one

line of credits that is currently bearing interest at 15.4%.

Which is pretty mild as far as like credit cards go. Um there's about $12,000 on that card and we're paying it down aggressively. 2,000 bucks a month.

um we've been hammering it towards that plus our balance transfer cards and whatnot. My question to you guys is is there an option to like I've looked at personal loans or debt consolidation loans but every offer that I get is above that 15.4% that that one line of

credit is actively acrewing. And so my question is about uh is there ways to consolidate lines of credit um from pre-existing cards like ones that I've already set up for myself back in high school. I'm 26 for reference. um and the

newer balance transfer lines of credit that were set up within the past 24 months. Like is there a way to consolidate the lines of credit? Is there a way to unlock other tools that may be lower than the 15.4 outside of going to friends and family?

>> I mean, there possibly would be, but the

question I have before I answer that is how quickly do you think you can pay off this 12,000?

>> 10 months. >> Okay. So, we're talking about we're trying to do the most to save ourselves maybe 140 bucks a month in interest.

>> Yeah. I think the most recent interest uh charge that was on that line of credit was like 220 bucks a month, >> right? But you're you'll be actively paying it down. So, the amount of interest that you're paying is also the actual amount is going down. I think that your energy is better spent in this

way. uh paying off the debt and finding ways to pour more money on it. I think

that's where the energy is better spent.

And I say that for this reason, the why behind that is a lot of times when we there's two things that happen here. Uh what kind of debt is it first?

>> Uh it's consumer debt. Uh we got married in May of last year, so a lot of it is wedding wedding debt. Um >> and is it just on the credit card? It's just on one credit card or multiples.

>> Yeah. So, there's there's the 12,000 that's bearing interest on the one credit card. Uh, we've done two balance transfers to two separate cards. One of them is completely paid off. The other one I recently just re uh renewed my um

what you call it the the offer to get 0% on another balance transfer. So, that >> So, what's your total debt right now?

>> Yeah. >> Uh 17.

>> Okay. So, the other reason that I don't love consolidating debt is because the way we teach debt payoff is the debt snowball method. And there is something to be said for having a couple of smaller debts that are separate versus one big debt because when they're separate, you can focus all of your extra margin on one. Get a quick win and

actually feel good about what you've done. So instead of having one massive thing that's 17,000, it's kind of cool if you have it broken up. There's a $12,000 one, there's a $2,000 one, and there's a $3,000 one cuz you knock out the $2,000 one. And there's actual sc like there's psychology behind that that backs that up. And so for that reason, I

I kind of like keeping them separate. If you were con if you did consolidate them, George, there's worse things he could do. But I don't think it seems like that's where your energy is. >> So far, Joseph, everything you've said is a shell game of just moving the debt around, switching outfits for the debt.

Let's move the debt in some stretchy pants so we feel a little more comfortable. I'm trying to get rid of the debt instead of move it around. Are you with me?

>> You with me?

We lost Joseph. Okay, there you are. I was like, "Come on, man." I was hoping for a big >> one more time. >> Are you with me?

>> Can you Can you hear me? >> Yeah. Hello. >> Yeah.

>> Okay, cool. Yeah, I understand what you said. >> I can tell you're a smart guy. You got You know your numbers.

I just want you to to like Jade said, focus your energy in the right place. Not calculating how much interest you can save, but instead calculating how fast can I get out of debt if I just throw the most at the payment. No more balance transfers, no more consolidation, no more lines of credit, no more Instagram ads, no debt relief, no debt settlement.

>> Not an outside force, not another debt

whack-a-ole. You feel me?

>> He's there. He feels you. >> He's there in spirit. His phone keeps cutting out. I promise, guys. He is pumped up right now. >> I'll play the role of Joseph. Yes, George. I feel what you're saying.

>> I could just feel I was exhausted just listening to him talk about all the balance transfers he did to move all this around. Like, dude, in that time, you could have just knocked it out. >> He could have been done. I mean, if you're throwing two grand at the debt, you got 17. >> It's pretty easy math here.

>> Let's just knock it out in, you know, >> what's 8 months, nine months. You said 10 months. So, all right, less than a year, it's gone. And we're not going to focus on interest rate. We're going to focus on the margin we're throwing at that principle. That's the goal here.

Thank you for the call. Stephen is in Fort Worth, Texas, up next. Stephen, welcome to the show. How can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. I'll try to um keep it quick. Uh, so my wife and I are having a baby in June. We've already got like our ST storm mode.

We've got 16,000 in a high yield savings account for that. We've since we already have that saved up, we've still been paying on my wife's student loans. We've paid about $75,000 since last June, and we are on track to pay off the last $20,000 by the time the baby is born.

>> Awesome. >> Um, however, I just got a job offer that

would require me to move to another city. And the house that we bought four years ago was a bit of a fixer upper and we paused our renovations to

uh do the baby steps properly. So, um we

feel like there's some work that's going to have to be done uh before we can actually sell it. And we're not sure if we should continue making big payments on the student loan or hit pause on that right now so that we can cash flow anything as long as it would um have a good ROI. That makes sense. that would actually increase our equity.

>> I mean, I got to tell you, I think I'd hit pause on both of these things since this baby is on the way. Um,

>> how how soon is this job stuff happening? Is it for sure?

>> Like I have a contingent offer. They're running a background check right now. We still haven't established the start date. They um already said that they

would be willing to let me do a hybrid sort of thing until I'm ready to move

after the baby's born. That's helpful.

Um, >> that buys you some time. >> The move would probably be >> July or August.

>> What type of work needs to be done on the house and how much money do you think is at stake uh if you do or don't do it?

>> It would be probably several thousand dollar if we because we did most of the work already ourselves and we're kind of exhausted of that. So, we need to have a contractor do it. It's things like updating the flooring, um, a little bit of painting, and then potentially even renovating the master bathroom that's like original 50s. >> Oh boy, that's a lot. Is that like 10 20 grand? What do you What do you think the real number is?

>> Everything together would could be that.

Like I said, we need to talk to an a realtor about specifically which items would increase the value the most, >> but yeah, it would probably be anywhere from 5 to 20,000 total. I don't see how you can do a bathroom and floors for 5,000, but maybe check those numbers.

>> Do the bathroom. It would be five. If we did use the bathroom, it would be 25.

>> Okay, got you. I was about to say that makes more sense. In 1999, um I think

that how long would it take you to save up the money to do that work?

Uh so we'll be getting uh7500

of miscellaneous expenses paid by the

company as part of the relocation package on top of what it they calculated it would cost to actually move. Um >> okay but you'll need that money to move.

So that's already earmarked for >> whatever whatever they pay us to move plus miscellaneous expenses is another

>> they'll cover that too >> anyway. >> Right. But I'm saying with your own cash money because the money that they're paying you to move, trust me, you're going to need that money to move. So I would keep that earmarked for what it's earmarked for. And now we have to set aside and understand what the timeline is going to be for us to do these renovations. How long would it take to save up 20 to $25,000? And really just I

think now you are in STOR mode. We're pushing pause on it. But during that pause, let's really plot this out and map it out with a timeline. How much do we need to save?

How much time is it going to take to save it? Can we can we work as we go? And really just create a plan. It's going to give you guys a lot of peace.

>> Yeah.

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Ryan is on the line in Kansas City.

Ryan, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, thanks for having me, guys.

>> Absolutely. What's your question? So, I

have a financial adviser and uh we were

kind of going through the baby steps and I was kind of telling them where I wanted to go with the baby steps and I

was getting my 401k investments up to about 15%. I was at 13, my wife was at 12 and he told me, "Hey, have you ever

thought that you might have too much in retirement and you might want to live a little bit more freely now?" And so he suggested that we kind of knock it down to 8% because my company matches my 8%

at 11%. And so he suggested that that's

too much money going into retirement and we should live more freely currently.

And I was hoping to get your guys's opinion on is this the right move or should I still be pushing to get done with baby step 4.

>> Wow. I've never heard of a financial adviser telling you to invest less. I mean, are are you guys already financially independent? Do you have millions of dollars? >> Yeah. What do you have?

>> Okay. So, we don't have millions. We've got 350 put away in our 401ks between my

wife and I. We make combined I make 111.

She makes 118 a year. And then I also get 24,000 from disability from the

military service. Uh, and we have two

kids. And I I kind of want to start saving for my kids college fund. And that's why cuz I've got a 7-year-old and a four-year-old and I'm scared that I'm

not going to be able to just cash flow that for them. I want to start building 529. That's kind of where all this came in. >> And you don't have the margin to do the investing that you're doing and put aside some. >> You guys make a great income.

>> Well, thank you. And uh right now we're

kind of struggling to do both.

Why? Something that that means something is out of proportion.

>> Yeah, lifestyle creep.

>> There it is. Thank you for the self-awareness, Ryan. I love that. >> We didn't have to pull it out of you.

>> Well, let's go back to the So, we've got lifestyle creep going on, George. And let's also go back to and answer the question from the the adviser. So, I I love the fact that you have an 8% match that kicks in at 11%. I think that's that's very cool.

And I think that that's gravy because the truth is you could switch jobs and there not be a match to that extent. And I just love the idea of when you're in baby step 4 understanding what it feels like to flex your muscle of investing 15%. And that way if it ever goes away, you're just used to like this is what I do. This is what I do.

benefit that it actually is uh for you building wealth. So, I actually wouldn't take the advice of the adviser. If you truly are on baby step four, I think that you need to do baby step four and and sock that money away. Now, to that point, if it's tight, I'm looking at other areas on the budget, George, to see what's going on here.

>> So, 38K is about 15% of your gross income based on my calculations. So, that's how much we want to be putting away into tax advantage retirement accounts regardless of the match.

>> So, that's that's step one. Once you have that going, then we move on to college savings and set a goal. You can use an investment calculator on our website and go, "All right, if we put 400 bucks away for the older one, 300

bucks away for the younger one, we're going to have this much by the time they turn 18, plus we might need to cash flow some. They get scholarships,

yada yada." So, that that's where you form a game plan for that. And then you guys also have a mortgage.

>> We do. Yep. And that's uh 20 uh $2,040

$2,44 a month.

>> Okay, that's very reasonable considering your your take-home pay, which I imagine is your take-home pay like 15 grand a month.

>> Uh it's it's a little shy of that. It's 14. It's It's a little over 14K. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. >> And then you get those bonuses at the end of the year. So now I'm going, okay, how do we budget this 14K in such a way that we're able to invest for our kids first before we have every little luxury in life? And my guess is you can find some wiggle room and fund money in $14,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're you're right.

And we're trying to So we just I just downloaded every dollar and I finished my first month last month in April.

>> So we just started budgeting to identify where we could uh when everything was red and I overspent. Not the best, but it helped.

It was eye opening, I think, is the best way to say it. It was eye opening to see where the money was actually going versus where we thought it was going.

>> So, you saw the lifestyle creep happening >> the but the crazy part is you were doing that already, but just delusionally >> instead of intentionally. So, now you know, now you can do better and go, "All right, we need to cut in this area.

Here's where the money leaks happened. We thought we were spending 200 bucks eating out. It was really 500 bucks. We need to ratchet down on that.

So now you and your wife can create a game plan and spit shake and stick to it and go, "All right, we're going to cut these areas down, ramp this area up, add this investment." And what I do, Ryan, is I auto invest it to my kids 529 plan so that the paycheck hits, I don't see that money. It happens on payday. So by the time I have a chance to even look at the bank account, the money's already building wealth for me. That's the kind of mindset you need to get into is being so proactive that whatever is left and whatever the fun stuff is that floats to the bottom.

The priorities are at the top. >> And to George's point, and that that's such a good point, George, for anybody who's listening, whatever you can automate, you automate your 401k, obviously that's coming out of your check automatically. 529 coming out of the check automatically. If you're putting money aside for syncing funds, it's coming out auto.

And when you do that, then when you actually receive your check into your account, you're you're already used to what that amount is and you don't miss. Does that make sense? Like you don't miss the money that's gone out. >> You force the boundaries to do the smart thing that you know is good for you.

>> Okay. So, really quickly, especially cuz George, you're on the phone and you always use the retirement calculator. I was using the retirement calculator on Ramsey Solutions and I plugged it in. I plugged all of our stats in and it's showing that in retirement it could be up to like with the 11.8% 8% that you suggest it could be up to 22 to $24

million in retirement.

>> That's to me I feel like if I sacrificed

a little bit of that now it would make sense because I could pay you know I I feel like I'm going to be fine in retirement anyways, but getting kids through college might be tight. We still think drive to the 15%.

And then just focus on the budget, crack it down and and go through with the 529s as well. The reason, okay, I I would love to talk about that a little bit because I do think uh if you had called in today and you were like, "Hey, we've been socking money away. We've got $4 million, you know, and you had accumulated a certain amount of wealth." I >> Well, give me a little bit, Jade.

>> I would have definitely felt the the feeling of do we have to be quite so intense? I mean, we're going to have so much money. I could understand that, but you're not quite there yet. Therefore, the choices that you make today really, really matter. Um, and how you craft your lifestyle really, really matters.

And where you are, where you're making this really great income, it's so easy to get sloppy because you do have the cash flow and you can do you know what I'm saying? Like your income can kind of cover up things, but the truth is if you're making this income and the margin is not there for you to do the baby steps, that is a huge red flag that man, we do need to tighten it up. If I looked at my budget today, George, and I said, "For some reason, there's just not 15% there to invest." You'd look at me like I was on the crazy train.

Like, what in the world are you? >> Because the truth is, I'll find it.

>> Hidden in Door Dash. Yeah, absolutely.

And so for you, um, Ryan, I think you have the opportunity to to really look at your lifestyle and put the correct boundaries in the correct place. And that's something that's going to serve you well beyond this of being able to have the discipline of saying,"I know when I'm off the rails and here's what it looks like." So, it's more of a philosophical thing for me than a if you don't do this. Does that make sense?

You're going to have plenty of money >> and there's a lot worse that you could do. Okay? So, hear me say that.

>> The other part of this is there are a lot of assumptions made. Like, it's fun to punch it into a calculator and go, "Cool, that's how much I'm going to have." But we also don't know what the returns will be, what inflation will be, will your income stay this high forever?

What if there's a a health diagnosis?

What if one person wants to stay home?

And so you have to factor in a whole lot of options. So I like to be a little bit pessimistic about the future to force myself to do smart things. And if you

have too much money, that's just more impact you can have on your family, your community, the things you are passionate about. So I wouldn't be too worried about having too much. But I think creating the habit of at least investing 15%, especially with your low mortgage compared to your income, I think you can find this money easily and it'll be a great exercise for you, you and your wife to to be a little less sloppy with the spending cuz you can out earn your stupidity with the money you guys make.

>> You know, the money leaks can happen. You don't really feel them. >> So adding some friction back in and putting your money where it matters, man, you're going to feel so good being proactive and intentional instead of just going, "Yeah, we'll be all right.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw taking your calls at88255225.

Max is in Minneapolis up next. What's going on Max?

>> Hey George. Hey Jade. How are you guys?

>> We're doing great. How can we help today? >> Hey. Yeah, just I had a quick question for you guys. Uh my wife and I are in baby step two. Um, and I just received a

pretty significant job offer. Um, I mean, I'm just I'm really struggling with the idea of leaving my current employer and just I I really don't know how to how to leave an employer that's been so loyal to me. Um, I just was

wondering what your thoughts were. >> Wow. What's the um pay now and what will you be making?

>> Um, currently I'm I'm an electrician, so I'm an apprentice. Um, I'm making 28 an

hour right now. Um, and the new job offer at the other place would be 50 an hour. >> Wa. >> Wow.

>> That's a pretty serious upgrade, man.

That's almost doubling your income.

>> Yeah. By by a lot.

>> So, explain to us the the trouble that you're having with um So, it's not the move, it's not the job, it's strictly, man, I'm loyal to these people. They've been good to me. How do I tell them? Is that is that it?

>> Yeah, that's that's pretty much it. I one of the biggest things that he helps my wife and I with um he owns duplexes

um in town and he gives us 750 off a

month on rent just for working for him.

>> Mhm. >> So that's a pretty that helps us a lot just with our living living expenses. Um

and I mean part of being electrician to become a journeyman which um is the next step. um you have to take a pretty big test and he takes his time out of Saturday mornings to come into work outside of work hours to help me study and help me understand what the test is going to be like and he just does a lot for me and gives me a van to drive.

>> It sounds like he's a friend. It sounds like he's just as much a good friend and a good person as he is a good boss, >> mentor. Super generous. That's awesome.

How long have you been there?

>> Uh five years. >> Okay. Is it is it fair to say let's

let's because I'm kind of going somewhere with the idea that he's he's not just a boss, he's been a good friend. So if if a friend called you up and told you some really great news,

>> how would you feel? >> Yeah. >> Even if it kind offfected affected you, but you can tell, man, this is really good for them. How would you feel?

>> I would feel very excited >> for them. >> Were you out there like looking for this job?

>> Um not really. I just have um other

friends who um are in a similar position who had already taken before me and there's just more to come to. They're just they're looking for people. They're looking for guys guys that are hungry to work and >> yeah. Well, I what I wouldn't do is just stay in it for loyalty.

I would have the conversation with a whole lot of gratitude and let him know

exactly how you feel. Man, >> you honestly changed my life over the last 5 years. the way you've mentored me, the generosity you've had toward me and my family, the things you've done for us outside of this place, it has impacted me and I'm going to take that with me forever. But there's an opportunity that is going to change our our family's finances and help us get out of debt, help us build wealth, and we're going to take that opportunity.

But I want to let you know that this place means the world to me and I hope that we can remain friends. How would he handle that?

>> I I think he would handle that that pretty well. I think I'm just a little too nervous about what what the reaction will be. >> Yeah. Well, I I think uh it's probably worse in your head than what's I don't think he's going to yell at you and go, "After everything I did for you, this is how you treat me." >> I mean, if he knew you were going to double your income, he should be happy for you as a mentor.

>> Absolutely. >> The reason he did all this was because he believed in you and he wanted you to grow as a person, as an electrician. And a natural byproduct of that is when you grow, you outgrow. >> Yeah.

And I think I think mature adults understand that few nothing lasts forever, you know, and and few things last for a really really really really really really long time, right? So I think that's just part of life. You to George's point, you grow and sometimes you outgrow and you you you can move on from different spaces and that's okay.

>> Yeah. >> I would be more worried if he was like a toxic boss. you know, I got to bring him this news and he's a narcissistic jerk and he's not going to take kindly to it.

But a great example is our friend Ken Coleman who recently left Ramsay.

perfect example. >> He was here 12 years, friend to Dave's before he got here, friend to Dave's after he left. And he had a very honest conversation with Dave and led with a whole lot of gratitude cuz I mean Ken and I, you know, we grew up here. feel like u especially me and I I kind of took over for Ken when I started here as a host and MC and so my journey and Ken's intertwined and as he shared it

all you like he was dripping with gratitude for the way Dave has treated him the the team here and nobody felt any level of wow I thought Ken was loyal

we know he was he was loyal up until the day he left and now he's just a loyal friend. >> Yeah. And so I think you're gonna have to This is like the first breakup of other breakups and the first one always the first one hits the deepest.

>> First cut is the deepest. >> I knew you're going there. >> I didn't want to sing it but I wanted to just know that. >> Cheryl Crow. >> So Max, I think you have the emotional maturity to have this conversation. And luckily I think he has the emotional maturity to handle it. And I'm I'm honestly just so happy for you.

>> And I'm not even your friend. I mean I guess I'm a new friend. But >> if he finds out you're going to double your income, he can't pay you that, right? It's not like he's underpaying you right now.

>> No, he I don't think he could match that. >> Exactly. And I think that's a fair You're not doing this to try to like manipulate him into paying you more cuz he can't. >> Yeah.

>> And so therefore, it's not like a tactic you're using. >> Uh you're just >> changing your family tree right now as a young electrician who has a lot of room for growth. And I think you're going to find that if he's a real one, he's going to stick with you as a friend in the long haul and he's going to be cheering you on from the sidelines.

>> Um, it's union, so I kind of pick where I want to work. Um, but there's pdium and stuff that comes with it.

>> Okay. And are you going to choose to move or are you going to choose to stay put?

>> Okay. And are you still going to live in the duplex with that that your old boss

offers you? Um, so it's I'm locked in

for a year with um he hired out a

management company. So it's technically through a management company. It's not necessarily just >> you're not dealing with him directly.

>> Okay. I wanted to know how that's going to I could >> see some Yeah. some awkwardness there.

>> Get out. >> Okay. What how much debt do you have left? >> Uh we have 22,000 in consumer debt.

>> Awesome. And you're going to be making 100K on your own when you take this new job? >> Yeah. Our our take-home pay with this new income would be around 106 a month.

>> Woo. Like that, >> man. That's pretty wild. Which means you're going to get rid of this debt fast, build up an emergency fund fast, be investing double what you would have been. Uh, and I I think that's an amazing feat at your age to be in that place and nobody would fault you for it.

>> Nope.

>> Yeah, that's that's the goal, >> man. And if you want, here's what I would do. I would practice the conversation. like you can write a letter first to kind of get all the words out there because when you start the actual conversation, it's going to be like a word vomit and you're going to be nervous and it's going to be emotional.

And so just knowing ahead of time how you want it to go and kind of knowing the flow in the arc. I want to start with the generosity. I want to then enter with the opportunity, >> end with how grateful I am for this friendship. And then you guys can get into logistics.

>> And I think quickly you'll find his facial expression will be that of maybe surprise, maybe a little bit like, oh man. But then at the end, happiness for a friend.

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Joseph is in Tampa. Up next, Joseph, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Great. How can we help today?

>> Good. Um, I don't really know how to put it in a question, but I have a lot of

debt. I'm not really sure where to go,

and um, honestly, I just feel like I'm

failing my fiance and our two kids, and

I just need help. >> Wow. Those are some fighting words. How much debt do you have? >> Yeah. Um, total

$77,67.

>> Okay. What kind of debt is that? break it down for us.

>> Um, it's 34,000

in credit cards, uh, personal loans, and

a broken rental lease. Um, about 29,000

in a pickup, and about 14,600

in student loans.

>> Okay. So, the overall is I want to get

out of this. I want to let go of the stress. I want to do more for my family financially.

>> Yeah.

>> Sorry. >> It's all right. You take your time. This is I mean there's a lot here. I can tell this has been weighing on you a long time. >> Yeah, it's really hard. It's really hard.

>> What um what caused this? Was there a an

incident that kind of caused a snowball in the wrong direction or is this just a couple of decades of, you know, just not being intentional and just letting life happen? >> Um, so I'm only 25 and it I mean I don't

want to make excuses for myself, but I grew up and watched my parents be really bad with money. Um, have a lot of debt and they still do. Um,

so I mean I didn't really know what a debit card was growing up. I knew what a credit card was, you know. >> I understand.

>> Okay. >> And so the last few years, you know, just making dumb decisions and and now I've matured a little bit and realized that I messed up and I got to fix it.

>> So you you're working. What are you earning? >> Yes. Um, I don't know the exact I think

it's almost 71,000 a year.

>> Okay. What does it look like a month? What's your paychecks look like every time you bring them home?

>> Um, about $1,200 a week.

>> Okay. $1,200 a week. And what about your fiance?

>> Um, she stays home with the kids.

>> Okay. And how old are the kids?

>> Um, our daughter is almost four and our son just turned two.

>> Okay.

And is there a wedding insight or?

>> Um, we've been thinking about going to the courthouse, but we've also kind of agreed that we need to tackle some of this debt first before we can start saving for a wedding.

>> Okay. I would Okay.

What are your monthly expenses you guys have? Um, so everything that I'm

actively paying on comes out to $1,870

a month. >> That's just the debt.

>> No, that's just like my my pickup payment and then all my bills.

>> Okay. That's not the That's not your full >> Are you guys renting right now?

>> Um, we are currently with my in-laws

right now. >> Okay. So, you have very little housing expenses, which is good. Yes.

>> Do you have a little bit of margin right now to throw extra on on your smallest debt?

>> Um, the way I've got it calculated, and I could have it calculated wrong, is I

have about 250 bucks a week left over

>> to,000 bucks a month to throw extra on the smallest debt. >> Have you Have you built a budget yet?

Because if you don't have every dollar, we need to get you in that because I think it's going to give you a better visibility into all of this. Have you Have you tried that?

I have um downloaded every dollar

before. I can't tell you that I've used it. I just have a piece of paper in front of me with the cost of all my bills and you know how it comes out each month. >> Before we get off the line, we're going to make sure you have every dollar because it's going to help you in so many ways.

Number one, it's going to give you a clear picture of what your income is, what your expenses are, and it's going to help you with the most important thing next. and that's what you need to focus on. Um, and just being able to see once you plug in, okay, here's my income, here's all the expenses, here's how much margin I have per month. Looking at it on a weekly basis is helpful, but really seeing it for the month and seeing those lump sums is is even more helpful.

Um, and I think that's going to give you a clearer picture on what's actually going on. And then you'll know, okay, I have, you know, $800 or I have $1,000 every single month that I can throw at the smallest debt, which in this case, uh, is the student loan, but I have questions about this $29,000 truck.

more about that?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I was 22. Um,

thought I was doing well for myself and I mean, at the time it wasn't the worst, but I'm doing way better now. And I

>> what's it worth decided that?

>> Um probably right about I actually talked to my buddy. He's a car salesman, but he said he can blue book it at right about 28. So I think about what it's worth. >> Okay. So I if I were in your shoes, I'd be offloading that truck immediately. Do you have any money saved anywhere?

>> I have $400 in a savings account.

>> Okay. So here's the plan. I'm going to give you a step-by-step plan. Thing one, I want you going by a credit union.

this weekend and I want you to say, "I need 5,000 bucks." And that's going to be the money that you spend on your used vehicle. It's going to be a beater. It's going to suck. It's going to have a lot of miles on it, but it's going to be like a Toyota or something that runs forever.

Okay? So, that's thing one. And then thing two is you need to get $1,000 saved. So, you need $600 more in a hurry.

So, I want you going through your house, you and your fiance, looking at every single thing that you can buy or post or you know what I'm saying to sell because you need $1,000 saved. That's baby step one.

>> $930 a month.

>> And that's without the insurance.

>> That Yeah, my insurance I cover my fiance's as well is 330.

>> Yeah. So you having that nice >> 1,200 bucks freed up on top of the thousand that you said you can throw at the debt. Now we're we're moving. You see what's happening here? We just freed up 2200 to throw at your smallest debt, >> right? >> Which is over 25 grand a year.

>> So worst case, if you just did that and nothing else, you're done in three years. So I want to show you there is a way out if you just get really focused and follow this plan exactly as we teach it. If you go, well, I want to just take parts of it, it's not going to work. You got to go all in. >> Now let's go back to the fiance. So, um,

you don't you don't have the money saved for the wedding. Tell me about the courthouse. Can you guys just go down to the courthouse and get married legally, so it's done and done?

>> Um, I think so. Um, I mean, I don't

really know all the rules better than I do. >> It's just a certificate. It's just something you both sign.

>> Okay.

>> Told me in the past that even if we do a courthouse wedding that she said she would still want a dress and a photographer and a tux.

>> Here's what I'm getting at. And and this is what here's where my mind is going.

Uh you guys want to be married. You have a family together. I would love for you guys to be able to link arms on this and

attack this together because it's for both of your future. You called in here sounding like you just have a pit in your stomach. It's because you're looking at the future with this woman and with your kids and you want to do better for that, right? And so what better what better way to start than to fully commit.

Now today you don't have the money for, you know, a big party. If she wants to put on her best dress and go down to the courthouse, I think that's great. Or if you guys simply want to say, "Today, this is kind of our secret and we're going and we're signing the paper. Nobody really has to know about it.

And then after, you know, in a year or however long, once we calculate that this is done, then we can throw the big party and we can tell our all of our friends and it can be this funny story that we tell, hey, we were married all along. We just didn't. Right? That's fine.

But for today, what I want is the security of you knowing that you can talk to her and include this her in this and her income now counts towards this and now it's just not your debt, it's her debt, too.

Okay. >> And I don't want you to feel the pressure of I've got to clean this up first before you got children.

>> Yeah. >> That's a great why, by the way, Joseph.

One of the best wise is those kids and that woman who you love. And so, I want to circle back to what you said at the beginning that you're failing your family. Well, let me tell you this.

Failure is an event. It's not an identity. Failure is a comma. It's not a

comma. So, don't let it be. That's not who you are. You made some mistakes at 22. Welcome to the club, man. Now it's who am I going to be tomorrow and the next day and the next day. You live that out. We're going to hook you up with every dollar to walk you through it and my book Breaking Free from Broke. I want you to call us back when you're married, when you're debtree. We want to celebrate every single milestone with you, buddy.

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Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And today we're going to break down the most asked questions from the week. A lot of questions about buying and selling a house, investing, and budgeting. But the top question was around retirement savings accounts.

>> Yeah, the specific question was, should I only contribute to a 401k or switch to a Roth IRA? Good question.

>> Juicy, nerdy debate.

>> Very juicy. >> There's a lot of variables here. So, number one, if you're still paying off debt, you pause all investing. So, this is a question for later. If you have paid off all your debt, you got 3 to six months of expenses saved, then you should be investing 15% of your gross household income into tax advantage retirement accounts like 401ks and Roth IAS. So to start, we say match first. So

if you have an employer match inside of a 401k, then take that first >> free money. >> Then you can go to a Roth IRA. Yes.

Next, finally, if you run out of money, like you've you max out the Roth IRA, you can go back to your traditional 401k until you hit 15%.

>> I love that. We call that rule of thumb here, match beats Roth beats traditional. And part of that, like we said, yeah, match is free money. That's free money that your company is giving you.

You don't want to miss out on that instantly. >> Yes, of course. And then, of course, you know, the Roth IRA, that's going to give you the tax-free growth and taxfree withdrawal in retirement. We love a Roth.

If you have a Roth 401k, go like ham on that immediately.

>> So, if you want to play around with your numbers, your situation, have the conversation with Ask Ramsey. It'll help you determine how much of your household income needs to go into each retirement account. And you can ask all of your questions today at ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Stephanie is in Detroit up next. Stephanie, what's up?

>> Hi, I uh am graduating from medical

school next week with a lot of debt. Uh

my question is, do you think making minimum income driven payments to qualify for um the public service loan

forgiveness is a smart strategy or am I taking too much risk relying on a government program uh potentially acrewing more interest if the program is canled? Very thoughtfully worded,

Stephanie. I appreciate that.

>> Thank you. >> Yeah, I'm, you know, people hear us on the show and they go, "Wow, these people really hate student loan forgiveness." No, we're just pro people taking control of their life. It's not even a responsibility thing. There's nothing wrong with the public student loan forgiveness program. It's just really hard to actually get it done and it's a long time and you're still making payments the whole way. And you're also limiting your income because you kind of

have to work in a certain >> place in order to get that forgiveness.

And if that changes, well, you're out.

And so that's the risk that I'm more worried about. Not it being cancelled entirely, but more just you don't know what the future holds. And I don't want to limit you. If you get an amazing job offer in the private sector, but you can't take it because you have these golden handcuffs, that's a real bummer.

But truthfully, the data on it, I mean, the data on it is not good. And I'll just tell you right now, at this point, like currently, only 5.5%

of the applications are approved for forgiveness. So that means 93% of the applications are denied.

>> That's telling me there's a chance.

That's a horri like that's hor that's that's a horrible shot, you know, to risk how many years of your life >> doing a job that maybe you don't want to do just to possibly get the chance at this. So, how many how much student loans do you have?

>> I have 300 about 315,000,

which is a lot. Um, I'm starting residency in June at a place that does qualify and I'll have about six years of training um that would go towards the 10

years. So that's kind of where like you

know I'd only have four years as a practicing physician elsewhere um that I would need to finish to qualify.

>> And what do you think you'll be making?

>> Um after fellowship I'll probably be making between 350 and 400.

>> That's fantastic. That's excellent.

>> I mean well here's the napkin math on that. If you can just for a short time let's say we can go both ways. Let's say you did it four years, you made the minimum payments, so you still paid into it, but maybe you got the rest forgiven after four years. >> Cool.

We did it. Let's look at the other side where you are in full control and you just attack it with a vengeance and keep living like a broke college student in residency.

That leaves you with 300 grand you could throw at the debt. So you'd be done in 18 months, >> right? >> Instead of hoping that four years from now or whatever it is that it's it's paid off. So either way, I think you could try it. But I think I like the odds of of Stephanie more than the government program working out.

>> Right. I guess we're just I'm I'm engaged and one of the things we wonder is should we be putting more money towards the loan right now or should we try to like buy a home and and you know

pay a mortgage. >> I just think that >> that's kind of where we go. >> I listen we had a dentist call in earlier um similar question similar amount of debt and he had the same struggle is like hey I'm getting to that point in my life I want to start a family. I want to buy a house. I also have this crippling debt. And don't forget, you know, with the mortgage, you're taking on debt. You're taking on more risk. You're taking on more financial responsibility in your life.

And when I hear somebody that has $315,000 of debt, and then you say, "Oh, and I'm thinking of buying a house on top of that." That just feels like the

ultimate stressor because now you're cutting into your margin because home ownership, George, I don't have to tell you, it's one expense after another. I mean, >> especially as a newlywed couple, there's no reason you guys have to jump into a home. I mean, just rent for a year, enjoy your newlywed life without all of the stresses of home ownership. Yes, there's some there's some blessings in there, but if you do it with a huge mortgage, you can't afford, which, by the way, you'll have close to nothing down, which is going to make your mortgage huge on top of the student loan debt.

you know, a farce because it's 315 grand

no matter what the payment is every month. >> That's a good point. And if you really think about this, um Stephanie, the house that you would choose to purchase uh on a $400,000 income is uh if you had

no debt, the house that you would choose is very different than the one that you would choose if you had 315,000 in debt.

Am I wrong or am I right?

Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah. So, I think it's worth it. It behooves you to to wait on this. Get the debt paid off. By then, maybe you're even earning a little bit more money >> and your then husband will be working, too. >> That's right.

>> Yeah. He's he works um >> What's he doing? >> We you know, he works as a breast salesman. Um so, he does well for

himself. We're just not planning on combining anything until we're married next year. So, >> but think about that. Let me walk you through that. If you get debt free, let's say before you're married, let's say you follow this in 18 months or whatever, you do this. Now, obviously, you need to be out of residency making that kind of money, so you'll probably be married by then. But if you can pay off the debt in 18 months, 315 grand, then you can save up another 315 grand in 18 months.

>> Yeah. Well, my my income won't be that for another six years, though.

>> Yeah. So, that's a ways away. So, even when you're married, though, when you combine incomes once you're married, you'll still be able to start knocking out this debt even before you're making that kind of money, >> right? And so it still tells me, I'm just saying within 3 years of being married, four years, you're probably going to be debtree with an emergency fund and a down payment.

>> But you just have to stay focused. >> Impossible to me. >> It'll happen. You'll be shocked at how fast you'll move. Yep.

>> Uh once you guys are married and you have two people working toward the same goal, now that's that's hoping that he's on the same page as you that you guys have the same >> money values, principles, goals, that's going to cause you to move so much faster. and I have great faith that you're going to be just fine, but I would focus on on paying it off because of your situation.

>> Yeah. >> So, I wouldn't do it personally, but I'm not mad at you if you do it. >> And don't take my word for it, Stephanie. Get get on the on the interwebs, get on chat GBT and look it up for yourself and you're going to you will be astounded >> at the numbers and at the data on this and you're going to go, "Oh crap, >> she was right.

I wish she wasn't." Listen, I wish I wasn't right. I wish that this was a guaranteed move for you and it would happen and it'd be a light switch, but that's just unfortunately that's just not the way it is. >> Yeah.

problem is people are now going into massive amounts of debt without really feeling it. >> That's right. because they're going, "Well, it'll I could probably get it forgiven later, hopefully. Fingers crossed." >> Well, what what it's hiding under is the rate has actually increased, but when you say, "Oh, we've gone from 3% or we've gone from 1% to 3% or 3% to 5%."

It's still 5%. That's terrible.

>> Now, it's five out of 100 people who are going to get it.

Heat. Heat. N.

All

right, Jay, let's talk about insurance.

Everybody needs it. Nobody wants to talk about it and it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck trying to find agents who know their stuff. But we've got you.

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>> Amen. >> Love to see that. I just upped my life insurance last night and I felt real good about it. Went over to Xander, got the quote. Yeah, >> filled out the application. It was a breeze. 5 minutes on my phone. >> Love that. >> And I slept a little bit better at night. So now >> I think I need some blood work done.

>> That's the fun part.

>> A little bit. Well, the one time they hit a they hit a a valve. I didn't know I had those, but apparently we all do.

And so uh I had I never gave blood after that. Let me just say that.

>> That was painful. >> Somebody just passed out whilst they were driving listening to >> Sorry, guys. My bad. My bad. All right,

let's go to the phones. Blake is in Chattanooga, Tennessee. What's going on, Blake? >> Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? >> So, I have a question um about retirement. So, right now, my husband and I, we're on baby steps four, five, and six. We are not hitting the 15% of

our income, and I'm not sure where to go. So, we already maxed out our IAS.

We're doing 12% in my husband's 401k through work, which is about 12 or 13 grand. And that does only brings us to

27,000 on a low year. Like if we take a low month, 30 grand a month roughly. That's a low month for us. That's 360 grand a year, right? >> We're coming up pretty short on 15% for

the year. So >> good problem to have. >> I love that. So what is your gross household income for the year? Give me a ballpark on that.

Um, the lowest it would be is about 360, but probably somewhere closer to I'm hoping 450 this year.

>> Woohoo. >> So, you're maxing out the 401k. You're each doing a Roth IRA. You're maxing out those. Are you doing an HSA as well?

>> No, we do not do an HSA.

>> Okay. Um, I I love this problem. I mean,

I can tell you, George, you >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm calcul I'm going off of that $450,000 number and we're going to go 15% of that is 67,500.

>> Okay. >> So, if you both max out a 401k, is that what I'm hearing? >> Mhm. >> No, I don't have a 401k, just him.

>> Okay. So, we're going to do max out his 401k, I believe. Is that 24500 this year? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, we've got that done. Now, both of you can do a backdoor Roth IRA because your income is too high for ath you do that. So that's 15 grand, 7,500 a piece. >> Yes. >> Okay. And do you guys have access to a high deductible healthare plan?

>> Mm-m.

>> We I feel like that's what we have. Yes.

Is a high deductible healthare plan.

>> So you should have the HSA. >> If you do, then you have the ability to open the HSA >> for it. We don't we don't ever use it because we don't really >> we don't ever really go to the doctor or need the money. >> Well, here's the life hack.

That's even better. You fund this thing and any money above a threshold, like any money above a thousand bucks, you can invest just like an IRA.

>> And I think it's 8,500 a year you can do. >> Yeah, I think like 8750 or something for the family. So I would max that out as well if you have access to that. That's another 8750. And then you he might have

access to something called a mega backdoor 401k.

And this is where you can do after tax contributions and then convert it over

to a Roth IRA. So he can look into that.

But honestly, once you've done the 401k,

the IRA, the HSA, I might then just go

to a taxable brokerage account and invest in index funds and kind of have a what I would call a bridge account because I assume you guys are young.

Yes. 3536 count.

>> Amazing. So this bridge account, let's say you wanted to be work optional at 50 or 55. Well, this bridge account in this brokerage account that's not a retirement account, you can just use that money. You'll pay, you know, capital gains taxes on any of the growth, but you can use that money to float you until you hit 59 and a half to access the retirement accounts without penalty.

>> Okay. So that's what I would be doing in that order of, you know, we talk about match, then Roth, then traditional, and then outside of that, you got the HSAs, you have the backdoor options. Then if you've exhausted all of those because you want to take advantage of anything that has tax advantages, then go to the brokerage account and just invest outside of retirement to finish it out.

>> Okay, that makes sense. >> Yeah. So you might be putting, you know, 20, 30 grand into that brokerage account. And if one day you may have an employer plan, then I would start utilizing that.

>> Yes, sir. >> You're doing great. What's your net worth at? You said 35.

>> Yes. Oh, probably not very much. Our I

mean, we owe a bit on our house. I mean, we've got our emergency fund. I don't know, actually. >> Oh, there's an idea. You know what I would do personally?

I might use that extra money and throw it at the mortgage.

>> We do. We pay $1,500 extra a month to our towards our towards our house right now >> on top of the normal payment.

>> Yes, correct. >> Make it 3,000. Let's get root now. How much faster will it get paid off at that point? How many years? >> Yeah. Uh it's a 30-year loan. We bought the house probably a year and a half ago. I think we owe $490 on it. So, it's

pretty hefty payment. $3,500.

>> Um >> I'd start chipping away at that thing >> and knocking it out in like seven. I would have a goal to have it paid off in about seven years with your income.

>> Seven years.

>> You can do it. >> You guys make half a million dollars. I mean, >> not that it's easy, but you can definitely accomplish this. If you throw, let's say, a hundred grand a year at it, you're done in four years, five years. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And that's plausible for you guys. Yeah.

>> I mean, that's throwing like what, seven, eight grand a month at the mortgage total.

>> So, I think it's very doable. I would sit down with your uh husband tonight and start crunching some numbers and setting some real tactical goals. And I think that's going to put some fire under you guys to get even more intentional with everything you're doing. And then I would automate it all so that you don't have to think about it.

Less brain calories. >> Love that. >> That's a great problem to have. I love that question.

All right, Derek is in Grand Rapids up next. What's happening, Derek? >> Hey, so I had a question. And I've got some people that are calling me for wanting me pick me up as a client for their financial advising services.

paint you a quick picture. I'm a self-employed. I'm a real estate agent.

Been doing it for six years. So, my income is not guaranteed. Um, I own a

house. I'm married with one kid. And my

goal so far has been to just pay off the house as quickly as possible. We don't have any other consumer debt other than the house. And my dad's been getting on my case about starting investing in some

more traditional ways. Um, and one of

those ways is he said, "I need to get life insurance because I have a kid and I need to start investing in traditional accounts." Well, this financial advisor, I I know Ramsay's position on whole life insurance and that it's terrible and I agree. Um, but he presented this thing

called a variable life insurance plan.

Um, and it sounds good. And I feel like

I'm missing a downside.

>> Oh, I bet he made it sound good. Do Do you know why, Derek? Do you know why he would pitch you a VUL over term life insurance? >> Well, I'm guessing he'll make a lot more money. >> Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. This guy wants a fat commission check. And let me be clear, he's not a financial adviser. He's an insurance salesman.

>> Yes, >> in financial adviser clothing.

>> Could be. He probably calls himself does he call himself a wealth strategist on Instagram?

>> I don't I don't know. I'm not on Instagram. >> Okay, that's the tell. By the way, if they call they don't and their websites are always a little bit vague and sketchy like what is he actually >> Yeah, cuz it's investments, but you don't have to have a securities license to sell variable. >> That's the scary part. Uh they can get away with with kind of selling investments through the insurance policy. But no, these are these are terrible investments and the returns are awful. The commissions are super high.

the premiums are super high. So, here's what I would do instead. Get term life insurance to cover the insurance side, which is going to be a fraction of the cost, like 20, 30, 40, 50 bucks a month.

And then invest the difference >> policy. The term policy he presented was like 28 bucks a month. >> There you go. Super cheap. >> And then whatever premium he was pitching you, if it was going to be $500, just invest that $472

difference on your own, and you'll be so much better off. Otherwise, you're going to be calling me back in 5 years going, "Hey, how do I surrender this awful policy that I my friend roped me into or family friend roped me into?" No. And I wouldn't get any financial advice from him in the future because it's tainted now. You already know he's trying to steer you towards products that make him money, not build you wealth.

>> Yes. >> Big difference. Big difference. Thanks for the call, man.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

We're taking your calls at88255225.

Beth is in Pensacola up next. What's going on, Beth?

>> Hey, >> how you doing?

>> Good. How are you? >> Good. What's your question today?

>> Okay, so I have $80,000 cash, but I have

a three and a halfyear-old mobile home that I owe $86,000 on that's completely falling apart due to manufactured defects. Um, it's completely rotted. We have mold. We really need to get out of here. Um, and but then I also have

student loans. So, I'm trying to figure out like, do I take the 80k, pay off the house, and just walk away from it all, or do I take the money to fix the house, which estimates right now are between 60 and $90,000. Goodness gracious.

>> Or do I get the student loan monkey off my back? >> How much are the student loans?

>> Um, so between me and my husband, it's 85,000.

85,000. Where did this 80,000 cash come from? >> Um, so we actually purchased property that we were going to move the mobile home to, but in its current condition, if we take it apart, it's a double wide.

It's in a trailer park right now. Um, if we were to try to put it back together, the engineers say that it would probably never go back together, right? So, we sold the property and so now we have the money from the property that we purchased. >> Got it. Got it. So, what would this thing sell for even if you did the repairs?

>> Like nothing. That's That's what I'm trying to figure out. >> It's not worth sinking 90,000 into it when it's already not worth that, >> right? >> So, could you get anything for it right now? >> Um, I've tried. I've not had any luck.

I've honestly been trying to move out of here since I purchased the place because nothing is basically what I was sold.

But um >> how much did you purchase it for?

>> So it was worth 129. I purchased it for 105 at a discount in exchange for living in the park for four years, which at that time we didn't have the property, so it was okay. Um and then I owe 86 on

it today. >> And you've been in the park for four years? >> Uh we will be in August. So it's our

home's about three and a half years old.

>> Okay. Um man, oh man. And how many how

many um bids have you had on the mold?

Have you checked with several places or just the one that quoted you 60 to 90?

>> Yeah. No, we've been like four months back and forth with the insurance and the mobile home dealer and you know they're saying they're not going to touch it because it's out out of warranty even though another home identical to mine with the identical damage in the same park and he actually just let his home go back to the lender.

But we worked really hard to build our credit. >> Yeah. Where are you living in the meantime? >> My home. >> Where are you living? You can't live in the mold. >> We're still in the house.

>> The hard the hard truth is this just might be a money pit. And either way, it's a money pit. It already has been a money pit. And you might need to just use the savings, pay off the mortgage, and get out of this thing as soon as you can. >> I think so, too. Otherwise, you're gonna go through foreclosure, >> give it back to the bank, >> and it's going to destroy your financial world for a while.

>> Yeah. >> And you guys can save back up 80 grand.

That's not the end of the world, right?

>> It kind of feels like it. We both kind of came from nothing. So, this is like a huge amount of money for us.

>> It is. But let's let's let's paint a picture because I think I think you've been in the midst of this for a while.

And how would it feel to completely be

free of this? There's no mortgage left.

You can walk away from it. Um, scrap it,

right? And then you guys look for an apartment. You're renters now, but there's no mold. And when you come home, it's peaceful and you're not, you know, battling insurance people anymore.

You're not battling. Do you see what I'm saying? There's there's peace on the other side of this. and it might cost you $85,000 or $80,000, but there's so

much peace on the other side of getting rid of this mess.

>> I'm just afraid that um with the rental prices in our area, we're in Northwest Florida, um that we won't be able to

save up to buy our place for like years and years. And I've got an 11year-old now. And I really wanted to give him a safe home, you know, out in the country would have been the dream. Well, what do you guys do for work?

>> Um, so I'm a stay-at-home mom. We have three kids and I homeschool. And then my husband is an engineer. >> And what's he earning? >> And then I do all kinds of side stuff.

Um, he earns right out 100,000.

>> And what do you earn with the side stuff? >> Anywhere between like 10 to 20.

>> Okay. So, $120,000 household income. You

guys can definitely afford rent. It's not going to be fun. It's going to be more than you're paying now on a mobile home, but it's not outrageous.

>> Yeah. Well, it feels right.

>> What's it What's it going to cost? What's the actual rent for a reasonable home? Nothing fancy.

>> Rent for a reasonable home with no mold down here is about $2,000 for a threebedroom. >> Great. >> And we've a onebedroom.

>> Yeah. And we don't have any other bills.

Like we paid everything else off. So, it's 25% of your take home. But

>> you're right there.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You're just not used to paying $2,000 for any type of housing.

So, it feels >> outrageous. But for your income and your take-home pay, you're right there.

That's perfect. >> And honestly, rent is the right space for you right now anyway. It's it's passing off risk to the the the landlord, which is great, or to the apartment complex, which is great. you don't have to shell out any extra money for anything else because right now once you get into an apartment that you can afford or a rental house that you can afford, the next thing for you guys to tackle is this 85,000 of student loans.

>> Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

>> And and I think I I think honestly even

though there was what we would call some stupid tax attached to this, I think this is going to help you guys get right side up and start doing things in the proper order.

>> Yeah. >> Do you know what I'm saying? to where you're really able to achieve that financial peace that clearly you want.

Otherwise, you wouldn't be crying, right? It's it's setting you it's setting you on the right path. And so, that's that's the the learning and that's the piece that comes from all of this is you know what? This is just putting us on the right path. Now, we're doing we're we're walking before we're crawling before we walk. We're walking before we run, which is good.

>> Okay. And honestly, Beth, I I don't want you to drain all of your savings to pay down a mortgage for a mobile home that's worth nothing. So, what I would do first is negotiate with the lender. And you might maybe a short sale is the best move, but I think you could do a negotiated settlement with the lender after explaining all of this, and they might be willing to work with you to take a much smaller amount to call it good and get you guys out.

>> Our credit, >> it may temporarily, but you guys are going to rent for a while. you have no other debt.

>> Okay? >> You're not going to be buying a home in the next, you know, 6 to 12 months.

Let's rent for a while. Let's rebuild.

Let's get rid of the student loans.

Let's build an emergency fund, then save a down payment. So, yes, I know your dreams of having a home in the country and homeschooling. That's still on the table. It's just a not now.

>> Okay? >> This is just a reset period. And I think you're going to have so much peace getting out of this. And by the way, your health and your family's health is worth getting out of this. >> Got to get out of that.

>> Yeah, y'all are right.

>> So, you're not a failure. You're doing the most right now. And you guys were dealt a bad card. And I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with this financially, emotionally, uh, in the midst of some chaos.

>> We work so hard to raise it, you know, to do everything right and then at no fault of our own, we're losing everything. And it's just really hard. H

well, I hope you can >> I hope you can negotiate with that lender, explain your situation. Um because this is I mean, yes, there were some decisions on your part, but there was also just the reality of the defects and the mold that was just out of your control. So, I wish you guys the best in cleaning the mess up and and getting some a fresh start. You deserve that.

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>> Indeed. Today's question comes from Justin in Iowa. He says, "I'm in baby step two and I've been selling items to pay to help pay off my $15,000 of debt.

Currently, I'm just finding free items online and selling them on various sites. >> While I've been doing this, I've seen some inexpensive items that I can purchase at a low price, allowing me to flip them for profit. Is this a good

strategy to pay off my debt?" >> Interesting. >> Arbitrage. >> The old arbitrage move. You go, you go to Goodwill, you find something that you can find on eBay listed right now for five times the price and you flip it.

>> I'd love to know. I think there could be some validity to this, but maybe I'd give you give some guard rails here because what you don't want is you've invested even if it's $400 into a bunch

of items and they've all been sitting on I'll just say the Craigslist to incorporate all of those different sites. They've been sitting on the Craigslist for four and five and six months and before you know it, you're like, "Ah, I thought this thing was going to sell. It didn't." Like that's I feel like that's a sticky that's a slippery slope to get in. Um, >> I like the idea of it almost as a it's kind of like a a little business. Yeah.

And so if you look at it like that, you're going to invest a little bit of your own money to purchase the inventory that you're going to sell. So in that regard, what I would do is set a boundary on it in your budget to say, "Hey, this is how much I can purchase each month to flip, but it's going to come out of the profits from other things I've sold." >> Yes, >> I like that idea. And only after you've done all the research, cuz you can get stareyed and just start buying stuff up hoping you sell it.

No. find out what is constantly selling for consistently at that price point and then make sure that you can still ROI after all the fees and shipping and all of that. >> And I'd even say in addition to I I don't want this to be your only side hustle. I want you to be doing something else that's kind of like guaranteed quick money as well so that you're not getting there's there's the opportunity that this could actually slow you down on your journey versus speed you up if you're investing too much of your profits.

>> Yeah.

you know, she'd buy it for five or 10 bucks, sell it for $300 cuz some of these vintage toys, these parents are like, I want my kid to have the exact thing I had when I was a kid and they'll spend crazy money on it. So, >> and and furniture flipping, that's a huge one. You can make so much on that >> if you're handy and you can do the research. It's not.

Now, you got to think about how much time you're investing into it, >> right? Right. >> Your hourly rate might be $3 an hour after you poured all this into it. So, make sure it's worth your time, but it's a valid business idea.

Very cool. Thanks for the question, Justin.

Jason is with us in Houston up next.

What's going on, Jason?

>> How you doing, George? >> Good. What's your question?

>> Um, well, uh, my grandmother Oh, my mom passed away the first week of December last year. >> Oh, sorry.

>> Thank you so much. Uh, and then my grandmother passed away the week after.

>> Oh boy.

>> Um, yeah, it was a tough month.

Definitely. And my wife's grandmother passed away in January, so upon each other. >> But, uh, anyways, um, since my mom

passed away from my grandmother, my grandmother's inheritance goes to my two

aunts and my sister and I because it goes via the lineage. So, it kind of bypasses my dad.

Um, my dad called me last week and wanted to know if I'd be willing to give my sister my portion of the inheritance from my grandmother's estate uh because she's always been a little behind and everything like that and and uh she needs to really start saving up for retirement stuff like that. She has pretty much nothing saved up and we're we're pretty well off my wife and I over here >> and uh he How much are we talking that

>> uh about 100,000. Uh >> Wow. Wow. Wow. So, you're going to give somebody who has no ability to handle money the most money they've ever seen in their life >> at your detriment, too?

>> Yeah. My dad said he would give me his entire when he passes away, >> which is how much?

>> Well, uh, he's got a house that's worth about uh 280. I think he's got 50 left on the mortgage.

>> So, wait a second. He's saying And now now is this is he holding it hostage? Is he saying if you don't do this, you will not be part of my inheritance? Is that what he's saying? >> No, no, no, no. >> Okay. Okay. Just checking on that.

>> He's just sort of guilting you into it. Like, hey, hey, she could really use the money. You guys are doing okay. What do you think about giving it to her? >> Listen, I'm going to tell you right now, I think that's totally out of bounds that he asked that. >> Isn't she already getting $100,000?

>> She is getting $100,000. Not only that, she was $24,000 in credit card debt. And

uh my mom used to help her out, but she passed away, so she's not going to help her out anymore. >> How about this? Let's let it play out.

Let's see what she does with her $100,000 and see where she is a year from now. >> George, I'm not even letting it play out. >> Well, it's more for entertainment purposes at this point.

>> I'm not saying you should promise him anything. I would not be giving your sister this money. And it's not because you're cruel. No, it's because it's actually going to hurt her, not be a blessing to her. >> And also because it was intended for you. >> My sister's debt. >> It But but here's the thing. Here's the thing. The money was intended for you. There was a portion that was intended for her.

There was an a portion that was intended for you and some that were intended for other family members. There is no obligation for you whether she's doing

well or not doing well. What it doesn't her side of this honestly matters nothing. >> We don't weight inheritance based on who could use it the most. >> No, it was intended for you and it's yours. And if you wanted to do that, that would you would have to come up with that idea in your brain. But for your dad to reach over and say, "Hey son, I think it'd be a good idea if you helped out Linda." That's not fair.

That's neither fair nor right in any way, shape, or form.

>> And um since my mom was helping her out, my wife and I are actually actually we settled her debt that she has. She has no debt anymore. >> Oh my god. >> Your sister has no debt anymore, >> correct? We she had like $24,000 of credit card debt. I managed to contact her creditors and uh settle it for 16,000. >> Wow. So, where is she at now?

uh she works at a retail job, but now she's on the level she can't get a credit card anymore. They won't nobody will give her credit anymore. Uh so now she can save, you know, I'm hoping I told

her that I want her to invest all of this money that she gets. And so I was going to send her information from investor pros and stuff in her area.

>> How old is she? >> Try to hook her up at every dollar, too. >> How old is she? >> She is, let's see, I'm 51. So, she's

turning 40 this year. >> Is there anything and and I'm asking this in the most delicate way that I can at this point. I'm not going to lie, I'm very irritated. Is there anything that precludes her from going out in the world and and basically doing what what

other adults do? Or is there is there a mental problem? Is there anything that's precluding her? Or is she just not >> like it sounds like her her growth is sort of stunted in a way, >> right? We want to know, is there truly anything there that we need to be considering, or is this just a a person who's just deciding, I don't need to do all the things that the other adults need to do? >> No, no, no.

She she wants to find a new job. She's actually going to get married later this year. Um, and her her her fiance is a

very level-headed guy. I like him a lot.

They work in like the same area, so they work close together. >> So then why is it up to you guys to step in and save her is my question.

She seems fine. It seems like she's fine. She's in a relationship. She's got a job. She's got a future h spouse on

the way. >> She's got a hundred grand coming to her.

>> Yes. She's >> She doesn't need your help at this point.

>> I mean, >> I would love You want to know what I'd love to do, Jason? I'd love to shift the conversation to So, what are you going to do with this $100,000 of inheritance you're about to receive? >> What are your goals, Jason? >> Yes. I want to shift it.

So, we're we're pretty well off. I'm I'm

planning on putting it in an index fund in case my dad needs assistance later when he gets older. And he's already 71.

So, I mean, >> what a guy. >> You're already thinking about other people as you build wealth.

>> I would go read the parable of the talents in the Bible. It's it's a great parable that explains uh how you can squander wealth or how you can grow it.

And there's a lot of scenarios and some people cannot be trusted with money

because they will not handle it well.

And your job is to be a steward of any money that comes your way. That's my viewpoint at least. >> And so if you are the steward of this money, what is the best use of this money? Is it to give it to someone who you know will not multiply it, but instead likely squander it?

>> I don't think that's wisdom.

>> Yeah. I mean, and another concern of mine is I have a special needs son who's going to be needing care the rest of his life, and we need to have a pretty big message. special needs trust and fund it. That's what I would be doing with this money. You got your own life and she has her own life. You've already done enough for her settling her debts.

I would step out and let her spread her wings. >> Y

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can." It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We are now joined by a wonderful couple on the debtfree stage. It is Andrew and Megan.

Welcome guys. >> Welcome. Thank you guys. Thank you very much. >> Thanks for coming all this way to celebrate with us. Where are you guys from? >> Chicago. >> Chicago. >> Awesome. How much debt did you pay off?

>> Uh I got it written down.

>> $165,293.

>> Love that. >> Fantastic. And how long did it take to pay that off? >> 22 months. >> Okay. There's a story here.

>> Something happened. >> There was some hustle going on. And what was the range of income during that time? >> Uh about 200 to about 230 depending on overtime and side hustling. Wow.

>> Fantastic. What kind of debt was the 165? >> We had a car in there.

>> Car. >> A swimming pool. >> Wa. >> And then our mortgage. >> Wa. >> Just throw that in there for fun. >> Just a little bit. Yeah, >> that is incredible. I got to say, I just saw the photo of Was this like a backyard renovation situation?

>> No. So, we just we the kids love being in the backyard. We got the pool, so we just some lights and a little movie screen back there for summertime and living the life. >> Look at that. >> That is awesome. And now it's actually yours. >> All ours. >> They can't repo the pool now. >> Nope. Absolutely. >> I love that. I'd love to see them try.

>> Yeah. >> Awesome. >> We'd be in a lot of trouble with the kids. >> Yeah. Now they're like, "We need this pool now." Okay. So, 22 months ago, you

were sitting here with the mortgage, the pool, the car loan. What happened that made you guys go >> gazelle intense? >> It I hate saying it, but it was he started it. He was a Ramsay fan before I knew what Ramsay was.

and I said, "Oh, that that's great. Good. Do your thing and and I'll do mine." And um we just sat down in it was January of that year and we were talking about kind of what our goals were and long-term goals, what we want to do, what we want to do for the kids and college and all of that stuff. And uh he mentioned Ramsay again and so I finally we had the book on the shelf the whole time since before we met.

the nerd and once I read it I was like let's go. Like spreadsheet open. We've got this. We're doing it. And so just kind of dove in head first.

>> So you're telling me that what really changed it was number one, you guys sat down and actually had some vision for your future. >> Absolutely. >> And then it was, okay, we got to reverse engineer it. How are we going to do it?

Well, here's a plan over here. And you dusted off total money makeover and said, let me just read it. All right.

>> Yeah. >> And that sold you. >> Absolutely. Yeah. It It's so simple that

it's like, why weren't we doing this before? >> And and you guys floored it all the way through. It's like baby step two. you said, "Okay, we'll do this car and this pool deal, but that's not good enough for us.

We're going to tack the mortgage on to it as well." Yeah. We um we realized that kind of with where we're at in our life and the age of the kids and you know, I know sometimes people say, "I just I I want to be there for my kids and I don't want to miss things and I didn't want to miss it, but more importantly, I didn't want to miss the future. I didn't want to see them going into debt for college or doing things like that." And so, we decided to just really floor it and live on beans and rice and do do the thing.

has always been, "Oh, I'm going to throw a little extra on the mortgage." A little extra on the mortgage, which >> made a difference, but it didn't when we were financing cars and pools. So, >> how much of it was the mortgage that was left? >> Um, about >> probably >> 120 or so.

I totally get it. When you're that close, you're like, I'm just going for it. >> And we kept seeing it go down, you know, month after month. And so, we did the pool first.

We actually we got our tax refund uh and paid the pool off right away. So, that was a nice jump start. we had some in savings. Um the car I think we paid off almost a year before my initial projection was because we just started what don't we need and cutting the budget down.

And so then by then we were getting close to the house was inching closer and closer to 100 and we were like well I mean what if we just kept this up and so we did and you know any overtime that he could get from work and then um my side job I just picked up as much as I could there too and we just threw it all there. >> Wow. What was the side job? Uh I'm a nurse practitioner and so I do uh home health visits.

I love that. >> That's fantastic.

>> It's a It's probably one of the better ones. >> I bet. Yeah, cuz everybody I mean listen, if you can get it in your home, that's wonderful. So good.

>> And how about you, Andrew? What do you do for work? >> I'm a fireman. >> Oh, fantastic. >> Yep. >> Look at this. We got a nurse practitioner, a fireman.

>> So, what kids say about this? I mean, obviously they're going to they're noticing life around here has changed.

Mom and dad, like, tell us more. There there were definitely times where they were like, "Mom, dad, why can't we we go on vacation? Are people down the street are uh they're getting the newer toys.

They're getting We said, "No, we're going to we're going to hold off on that. You're going to get it later on." >> Yeah. And they I listen to the show all the time and the kids are they know the phone number. And they're like, "Oh, you're listening to Dave Ramsey." Like they they know all about it now.

And they they they laugh when they hear the commercials and it's like, "What's in your wallet?" They're like, "Not a credit card. It's a debit card." They're on board. They're drinking the Kool-Aid, too. >> That may have been the best part of this whole journey is that, you know, we say more is caught than taught and you guys have set a precedent to now they're not going to turn 18 and go, "Well, mom, I think I really need to build my credit and get a credit card.

What do you They know better now." >> Absolutely. >> Such a young age, you don't even need to talk about it. You've lived it. >> Yeah.

And I think that's a big thing. The more than caught more caught than taught, um we were wondering how we bring it in and how we teach them. And we realized that just doing what we were doing and telling them like, "No, we're putting some into savings and you know, this is what we're doing and why we're doing it." And they for for their ages, I think, understand pretty well. So, >> yeah.

>> Um, anywhere between 400 and 450.

>> Let's go. >> What do you guys have across your retirement accounts in nest egg?

>> I think we're probably we're probably right at or maybe over the threshold there for for Baby Step Millionaire.

Depend depends on how the market's doing here. So why we're very close if we're not there. >> Way to go. >> Exciting. So how's it feel? I mean, you don't have a payment in the world. You owe nobody nothing.

>> It I feel like sometimes it still hasn't hit me. >> No, it hasn't.

>> We we have the proof. Yeah. >> But I'm still I see everyone else >> hear everyone else telling about talking about what they're paying off and what they still have to they still owe on their homes. And I'm like, "Oh, I don't know anything." >> Do you know the exact amount you guys have freed up in payments from the car loan, the pool payment, the mortgage payment? um probably

close to if not at about 3,000 a month.

>> Wow. I I would say closer 3500 what we

were. >> So we're talking like a $40,000 raise in takehome pay. >> And it's he last month worked um some overtime and we didn't realize how much it was until the check came in. And so instead of figuring out what goes where, we're like what are what are we going to do with this money?

Like it's a great it's a great problem to have and um fun to you know kind of plan what we'll be able to do with that for the future. What are you gonna do?

>> Yeah. So, we are Well, we came here obviously. That's that's the first part.

What else? What else? Um, we are going to take a trip this summer. We're going to just drive out west with the boys and kind of see as many of the sites as we can for a couple of weeks and then ultimately we would love to be able to live on a lake and so we're we're putting money away um to hopefully one day be able to do that too someday.

>> I love that. >> That's so cool, man. >> Live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. Absolutely. >> So, what do you tell people the key to becoming debtree is

>> uh >> I think it's what everyone says all the time, right? >> Um yeah, >> being partnership and having those conversations together. Um I think we when we first got married did not have joint finances. I was paying off student loans and I said, "Let me just keep it coming out of my account." And then we didn't know where the money was, what was coming, what was going, who was spending what.

And so finally when we sat down and did this and got everything on the same page, it just makes so much more sense. And now there's no question about what's going on. So that the communication and getting on a good budget. Every Dollar is my favorite thing.

I'm on it all the time because we know exactly what's going on then. Both of us can see it, too. >> I love to hear it.

You can keep those to renew yours and keep keep the fire going for your new savings goals. You can give them to someone else who you want to encourage to get on the same journey. That's our our little parting gift to you. Uh can we get the kids on the stage? Yeah.

>> All right. What's their names and ages?

>> So Gavin is nine and Leo is seven.

Seven. >> Love it. And they've been practicing. If they know the phone number, they for sure have been practicing the debtree scream. >> Yeah, we're very good screamers in general. So we're hoping that the debtree part will work. >> Hey, blow the audience away, guys. Okay, we've got Andrew and Megan and Gavin and Leo. Chicago area. $165,000

paid off. That's the car loan. the pool and yes, even the mortgage. They did it in 22 months, making 200 to 230 with the

side hustles. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> Ready, guys? >> 3 2 1

>> Man, that's pretty wild. >> That's what I'm talking about. Listen, you know what? We teach on here all the time. You know, you can be intentional.

You don't have to be intense about paying off the mortgage, but man, every once in a while folks like Megan and Andrew come along and they just slam on the pedal. And I'm not mad at them for doing it. >> No. And what's crazy is, yeah, they're making 200 grand, but the stats show people making six figures, half of them are paycheck to paycheck. >> So don't tell me, well, if I made that much. No. Use your income, and as you make more, keep throwing at the debt.

Keep working the plan, and eventually you'll become baby step millionaires at a young age with a whole lot of life on the other side. So proud of you guys.

All

right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsay trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseyolutions.com/

scripture of the day, Matthew 6:34. Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Mark Twain

said, "The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why." >> That's good. >> You going to learn today.

>> All right. John is in New York City.

John, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for having me. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> So, to give some context, my mother-in-law, I love her to death. I love her daughter so much. Um, she has a great income, you know, no debt except

for her car. Um, you know, the house is paid off. Uh, but I can't get her to buy in um on retirement or saving. Um,

actually I can get her to buy in for a little bit, but then it just goes completely out of the window for, you know, this reason or that reason. Um, and admittedly, I am worried that in 20

years she will be totally uh that we

will be responsible for her um financially. Um, and that concerns me of

course. So, I don't really know how to get her to a place to like fully buy in because she's in a rare and unique circumstance where she has the ability to save for retirement over the next 10 years and have a good retirement. Um,

but she just won't for, you know, a multitude of reasons.

>> Sounds like something spooked her or scared her or she grew up hearing something, right? There's something that's living in her psyche that is informing her. Uh, and it's clearly not the facts. Um, >> I think that's right.

Yeah, she grew up pretty poor and so, um, I think it's one of the mentalities of what if I die tomorrow? Um, and so she'll save, you know, we did get a Roth IRA going. You know, that's great. Um, but, you know, that's pretty much all she has saved for retirement.

>> Oh, she it has about 25,000 in it. And so, that's the only thing that we've been able to stick to, mostly because I think it's automated. Um but >> so she's maxing it out every year.

>> Yes. But it only started three years ago. So um you know, quick napkin math

in 10 years. I mean, and the way that and frankly um you know, the way that she spend uh you know, I mean that that will go in three months probably.

>> Does she have access to a 401k through her work?

>> Yeah. Yeah, she has access to it. Um, but it it and we've sat down and, you

know, did every single scent where it goes. And I mean, she has like $5,000 a

month. >> In her mind, what's the difference between uh her doing the Roth IRA and letting that be, you know, automated versus also setting the 401k and obviously that being automated in her mind, what has she said the difference is? Is it just the amount of money or

>> Yeah. Yeah, it's essentially the amount of money, but she she she recognizes that she makes a good amount of money, but she believes that life just continues to get in the way. Um, you know, but then it's like I walk into Easter and, you know, I got a basket.

>> Oh, so it's not it's not the investing.

It's her parting with that being that money being part of her day-to-day spending budget.

>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, it's probably $200 a day. Um, and I just don't know where it goes. Um, like like frankly, I don't know where it goes. and and and I think that I will grow resentment if she has no money in 10 years and I've just been watching this for, you know, two decades. Um, >> where's your wife? Where's your wife?

Where's your wife in all of this? Because >> if you you're a good son-in-law, you're you're talking with her. It feels like this is something that maybe your wife should be taking the lead on. And and

there's part of this where you both are going to have to relinquish the idea that you you can't make her do anything like she's a grown woman. She can make her choices and >> because of that you can also control what you're going to do which is if you and your wife have sat down and said we don't believe that it's our job to fund her retirement. Let's just we agree on

that. Fine. But maybe it's our due diligence to let her know that as well so that she can factor that into whatever plan that she has. And then from there on, you can kind of just go on about your business and say, "I set the expectation and I'm aligned with my spouse.

It's all good in the hood. Move on. What's wrong with that?" >> No. And you know what?

That that that is definitely a conversation where neither of us want to have it. And I think that uh if push comes to shove, we're both like on the fence of like, of course, we'll take her in. Um, but that budget will look totally different than what she wants it to look like. But I think that setting the expectation is is probably what needs to happen.

Like personally, if it were my mom, like I'd probably like lock her in the closet, you know, six days a week because I'd be like, "What are what are we doing?" Like this is ridiculous.

her take-home is is nearly $150,000. I

mean, it's >> it's just disappearing into random spending. >> Exactly. Like I said, it's probably $200 a month. I think I think you're burning too I think you're burning too much energy on >> Yeah. >> just continually circling what she's not doing. I can't believe she's doing this. She's got this. Why wouldn't she do? That's a lot of energy you're burning.

Uh John. And so I think you need to burn more energy on here's what I'm going to do >> and here's what that's going to look like. Here's what what my wife and I are going to say. Here's what we're going to do. This is what it's going to look like. This is what it's going to sound like. And and if it makes you feel better because please hear me. I get it.

There is just when you come from someone, you know, you've got parents, you care about them. And even though it's very easy for myself or George to say it's not your responsibility because this is your family, you do feel it. So, I want to acknowledge that you do wish that you could meddle in it and go in and change it, but you can't. So, if it makes you feel better, >> what you could do is say, uh, I just want to make sure she knows.

I'm just going to set a regular rhythm of, you know, maybe it's once a year. We kind of have a state of the union and we say, "Hey, we just want to I we don't know if you're interested in the investing thing yet. We're still here if you want help because remember, we're not funding this and and as long as you're it's almost like the college discussion that you have with children. You set the expectations and you set it early and often.

Same thing with this." Yeah.

mother-in-law so that this conversation goes better cuz it's going to take a little bit of a persuasive argument if you can even get her to invest. But the good news is, as you found out, if you can get her to automate it and just live on what's left, then you're golden. And so if your wife can sit with her, log into the 401k, ratchet it up, and all of a sudden she has less coming in each month. Well, now she has less that will, you know, flitter away into money leaks.

>> And also the good news, I think I heard you say her home is paid off. She's not taking on any new debt. Correct.

>> She just has the car loan. >> Yeah. Yeah. She just a very nice car. Um

and that's it. >> What's left on the car loan? Do you even know? >> Oh my gosh. Um 34 probably. 34. M

>> does she have any plans to pay that off or is she just doing the minimum payment? >> Oh, minimum. Yeah, the 600 a month or whatever it is. Um, >> does she have savings? >> Bleeding? >> No. And that's the thing is that we would get we would get to like 15 20,000 again pretty easily, pretty quickly and then it's like uh you know all of a sudden you like the like one of them has access to the account and it'll be like $400 in there. I'm like what is this?

Um, and it's nothing like on the surface of like, you know, a $12,000 handbag or whatever. I think it's just like literally $200 a day of just

>> that'll do choices. That's $6,000 a month if you're doing the math at home. So, it doesn't take much to just have all these money leaks eat away at even when you make great money. And the more you make, the more you go, sweet, more I can blow without feeling it.

So, this is going to be >> we've doubled our salary. Like, we like we've done really good work and I'm and you're right, I'm so emotionally attached. Like I I just I think about it as much as I think about my own financial. >> You got to chill out with that.

>> That's the scary part. This is consuming you. So I mean it's like you can't want it more than she does. And at some point she might need to feel the pain, but again that's too late for you where you're going, well I don't want to >> need to fund her retirement.

So that's going to be up to your wife to go, "Mom, we love you. We are not your retirement plan. And I don't know what your plans are, but it doesn't seem like you have one. And I love you too much to watch you retire broke and for you to become a burden.

I want your retirement to be filled with dignity, filled with options and flexibility and not you needing to live with us cuz you have no other option. >> Yeah. Oh boy. And for anybody listening, man, if you're listening this and you're in, you know, late 40s going into your 50s, 60s, please, please, please take it upon yourself to do the right thing.

It is your duty to set yourself up for life. It it should not be your when you bring children into the world, it's your responsibility to take care of them. You brought them here, you take care of them. >> And there's no quid proquo of, "Well, they now are my retirement plan cuz I raised them." No, that's selfish.

That's what it is. And we're we're seeing a generation that is the sandwich generation. They are trying to raise their kids. They're trying to set their own financial goals and they got to take care of mom and dad who did not prepare for retirement.

>> They got their own kids to take care of.

Well, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broken. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in

the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Thrilled to have you

with us. 88 825-55225

alongside the refreshed new father. Got

a good night's sleep last night. So that means he's going to be extra good at helping you folks today on the money issues. George Camel, my dear friend.

And then I'm Ken Coleman. If you're new to the show, welcome, welcome, welcome. I'll help you make more money. George is going to help you keep more money. That's the combo. And uh so we're gonna get right to it. Kate's joining us in California. Kate, how can we help today?

>> Hello. Well, uh, thank you so much for taking my call. Uh, my husband and I have been married for almost two years now. And when we came into a marriage together, we both owned a house. And, um, the house that he has, we live in right now, and it's paid off. The house that I have is in a different city. It's where I was living before. And I still have a mortgage on it. Um, it's worth about 500 and my mortgage has 325 left.

We pay every month, but then we have renters and it covers most of it, but we're losing about $200 per month um with the property management fees and

we're trying to decide. We chip away at it every we do every dollar and we're on baby step six. We're doing great, but we chip away at the mortgage every month.

Whatever we have left over, we spend towards the mortgage and we're trying to chip away at it, but we're trying to decide if we should keep doing that or if it's and it's worth the keeping the house um or if it's just going to be too much. And >> let me ask you a question. >> Let it go and sell. >> Let me ask you a question. I want you to speak on behalf of your husband. I think you're qualified. >> Uh >> do you do you enjoy uh losing a couple

hundred bucks a month on that house?

>> I It's weird. Like we we we both see the

pros and cons. >> No, no, no. You're sounding like a politician. That's a yes or no answer.

Do you enjoy losing a couple hundred bucks? >> Do you enjoy I'm okay with it cuz I really love this house and I like I don't want to give it up. And we go we go to the city that it's in a lot and visit and so like eventually one day I would love to have it paid off and then have it be like ours and we go and we can stay there. >> I'm not sure why you called us. I'm not sure why you called us now.

>> Well, cuz we're we're really torn and there is some like >> who's wait

torn. I'm holding George off because I know what George is gonna say. So, I'm trying to This is actually fun that we got behind what's really going on. We are torn. >> Yeah. >> Uh there's over 100 people in the lobby.

Uh show of hands if you think she's torn.

>> Oh, all right. About half. About half. I don't think you're actually torn. I think you want to keep it and your husband wants to get rid of it. Is that true or false?

>> It's partially true. I just I feel like

the the issue is I want I want to do upkeep on it, but it's a lot of money and it's like is it worth it? And the other thing is like the house we're in right now is great and we're thankful but it's not our forever home. And so it's like we don't want to get another home. >> Okay. Your forever home is with Jesus Christ. There is no forever home.

>> Oh, you're not 90. You're going to move seven times before you pass from this earth. >> So here here's what I'm hearing. >> George from the top ropes of the church just off the balcony. >> I like a Jesus joke. >> You came in with a robe on and off the top of the balcony there. >> It's just fun. Here's here's what I'm getting at, K. I think this is a sentimental house for you. This was your first house that you had on your own.

>> Yes. >> So there there's a real emotion tied to this and there's a sunk cost fallacy and it feels like letting go of this house is letting go of something you worked really hard for. And so I think what you need to do as best you can is to untie your emotion and instead tie onto some logic which is what your husband's probably using. He's just doing math and going this doesn't make any fiscal sense.

We're losing money. And then the other part of this is where is the house located? You're in California.

>> So we're down south and the and my house

is up north. >> How far away?

>> Uh about 5 hours. >> Oh, this is insane. So would you now today go, hey, let's buy this house 5 hours from us to rent out and lose money on. Would you make that decision today?

>> No. >> So that the key here is you may you became a landlord by default. And even if it was working out, I'd probably tell you to sell it cuz it's still long distance. It's still a nuisance. It's still a headache. >> I got a theory, George. Uh, and I don't mind being wrong, Kate. I think, uh, George may be right on the emotion piece, but you didn't react. I Here's what I hear. I think that you think this

is such a smart investment if you can just somehow figure out a way to not lose money on it or somehow just keep this. I think you feel like it would be financially irresponsible to let go of this house. Is that true or false?

>> Well, I grew up with parents that were all about good credit scores and all this stuff. So, like they they pushed me and encouraged me to get this house when I was single. And >> um and they're all about like, "Oh, you got to keep it now. It's it's getting higher in value each year. This is amazing. Keep it." So, I have

>> True. True or false? Did I I'm just saying. I'm I'm helping you. It's not about me being right. I want you to get I'm trying to identify for you what's really going on here.

>> I think you think it's irresponsible to let now let down mom and dad. That's an

added layer. >> Is that what's going on? Yes or no?

>> And I don't know. I'm just I I feel like it's worth it in my opinion. It's worth it keeping it. It's investment. We could use it in the future. But so we >> But don't say it's worth it out of fin You're saying it's worth it emotionally.

It's not worth it financially.

>> No. How much money are you losing a year on this house? Be honest.

>> Um, I'm That's a good question. We're It's about 200 a month that we're losing. So, >> okay. Well, that's easy math. 2,400 bucks, but it's more than that because now you got to fix it up and do other things, right? >> You got to fix it. Yeah. >> It's not worth it on paper. It's not worth it. >> You could if you sold it, you'd walk away with about 150 grand.

>> That's worth it.

Now, what would you do if you had 150 grand in your pocket today? Great question.

>> Uh, well, like I said, we the house that

we're in, we just had a baby and there's stairs and we just we want to get a one-story house and so like we're that would probably you probably put it towards a new house and like the house that we're in is also very valuable. So, we would be able to >> Oh, you want to play this game again?

Okay. You didn't learn the lesson the first time. >> No, I feel it's crazy. I feel like you're talking in circles. You should run for office. I really think >> maybe have trouble with stairs right now. Is that the issue?

>> I was just worried about it. Yeah.

>> Okay. I'll tell you what I did cuz I have Many people have stairs. It's very common in houses to have stairs. >> What' you do with your stairs? >> You put a gate. I got a baby gate installed. >> Problem solved. And I carry the baby.

>> Right. Well, that's smart. I uh >> It's where these arms came from. >> You know, I'm getting to the age now if you put a gate on my stairs, I probably wouldn't go up.

>> No. Ken's going to have a little motorized. >> I don't want to pull a hamstring goes up the stairs. >> I'd have to stretch.

>> I play a lot of pickle ball. I got to stretch. I got to stretch before getting over that gate. Um, you know, we're having fun with you, Kate, but the the Here's You won't even answer the question, but I think George's an George's question is your homework assignment.

George and I have spoken. It makes no sense. We're going to say this until the cows come home. To be a longdistance landlord. We've said that a million times. We're going to say it a million more times. George and I have told you why. Um I think we've identified the emotion around this, which was our goal to help you see how your emotion is outweighing your logic. And then now

it's like, hey, you got to start thinking about what would we do with the 150 plus this the equity on the current

house that you don't like. That's the move. Am I right? >> How old are you, Kate? How old are you guys?

>> Uh 30. >> 30. Okay. You let this thing ride till 62. If you just invest 150 grand, you'll have 3.6 million. Oh boy.

>> So, I'm not buying the fact that this house is the greatest investment. You could make truly passive income just investing it into an index fund. And so, this is really about emotion than it is about logic. I would sit down, engrave this house, and then put it on the market, take some cute pics, say goodbye. I wouldn't grieve it. I'd celebrate it. Money, money, money, money.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

Anna is up in Little Rock, Arkansas.

Anna, how can we help today?

>> Hey, uh, such a treat to talk to you all. Um, I'll make my question brief.

And, um, essentially, I just learned that I'm expecting my first baby.

>> Hey, watch out. That's exciting.

Congrats. >> Super super excited. And I'm as nervous

as I am excited. Um, but my question is

is um I have a um a piece of fine jewelry that was gifted to me from a family member and the appraisal value of

several years ago was $11,000

although I think it may be worth a little bit more. But my question is is two parts. One, um what can I expect to

like the appraisal value versus sell value? I just don't know what to kind of expect um for that. And then my second question is, how do I go about finding a buyer for fine jewelry? I I hear about like finding a, you know, a private seller for like a vehicle, but I've listened to the show for a while and I've never heard about somebody trying to sell jewelry.

So, I would love any uh any help. >> Great question. Uh uh George is doing a little research. Quick question.

Um why are we selling it?

So, one, I am a simple person. I am not

a jewelry fan whatsoever. So, I have no

attachment to it. And um my husband like picked up an extra bus route and I am trying to get my side business started just to pile up cash. And so, really, I

just I would really want like I feel like this is just a quick way to get kind of a nest egg. >> Okay. And so, we're trying to build up are we have any debt?

>> Yes, we do. >> Okay. So, we it's not about the nest egg, it's about the dad. I'll let George walk you through that. And who's the family member that gave you this?

>> Sure. It It's my mother.

>> And mom's not going to be And again, I'm not in any way. I'm just curious. I'm getting all the facts here. Would mom be upset to find out that you sold this?

>> Uh, no. It was originally given to me to sell for to like help pay for my wedding. >> Oh, great. We ended up then. Absolutely.

Okay. That's all I needed to know. >> No sentiment, no relationship destroyed.

I would sell it. And there is there's a spectrum depending on how fast you want this cash and need the cash. You could get it fast at a pawn shop. You could go to a local jeweler.

From my research, you're probably looking at 30 to 60% of appraisal value. >> So top end, you might be looking at, you know, five a little over five grand. On the lower end, maybe three or four grand. >> Okay.

>> And so I would at least try your local a local jeweler to see what they think, what they would >> What about George?

Can you sell it? and she go online.

>> There's auction houses. Now, the thing is, you're going to take more time to find a private buyer. An auction house will cost you a little bit and it might take a little while to sell if it's a unique high-end piece. And there's online marketplaces as well. So, it just depends. If you're in no rush to sell this, you just want to get top dollar, I would go that route >> if you guys aren't desperate. >> Have you done some research on your own as to pieces like this?

So the I went to the retailer that it came from and so and like I said it was it was valued at 11,000 at the time and they offered me $900.

>> Okay. I'm talking about online. I'm talking like for people that cuz you go retail, you're going to get whole you're not going to get the the pricing that you want. >> You have the appraisal so you have a lot of info about this piece of jewelry.

Correct. Okay. Good. I'm saying, are there people that are selling these things online >> that you can check this? Like, go to eBay and find that item and then go to completed and sold in the filters.

That'll show you what it's actually selling for. >> Awesome. >> So, that's one. >> Thank you so much.

I really appreciate it. >> Yeah. Start doing your research. >> Appreciate the call.

Wow. >> But yeah, I mean, that's that's very rare that you have a piece of jewelry that nice that isn't sentimental and won't destroy a relationship from the person who gave it to you. >> Yeah. Speaking of which, you got a nice piece on your wrist right there.

my uh my wife's grandfather passed and grandmother said, "Hey, if you'll take this and you want to fix it up, keep it, but just don't sell it." So, I am under strict conditions to not sell it. And I don't think I ever will. I'd love to pass it down to, you know, my >> By the way, I remember when you first showed it to me. Uh, it looks good on you.

>> Thank you. Yeah. >> I'm usually an Apple Watch guy and so this is a big change. >> No, I think this makes you look like an adult.

>> Well, I'm I'm a dad now.

>> You're a dad. You got a beard. It's time to wear a real man. >> I don't need to get texts on my wrist.

By the way, because it's an older uh Rolex, can I say that? Yeah, I just said it. >> So, it occurs to me. I didn't didn't really filter that very well.

>> No, it's totally fine. >> But the size of that matches your wrist size. >> I have You're saying I have a dainty wrist. I understood.

>> You're a small guy. Small wrist, small watch. I think it works is all I'm saying. Tammy's up in New York.

>> Hi, Ken and George. I love you guys so

much. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Thank you. We love you, too.

>> Thank you. So, uh, just to get to it

really quickly, I have in baby step two,

I just finished paying off about $30,000

in credit card debt. >> Nice. >> And I have basically two more uh with

the exception of my mortgage. Um, two more is my pension loan and my car. Now, my car is a lease that's up in September of next year, which they say will be valued at 20,000 by that time. um just

got like a payoff uh estimate last month. Right now it's about at 28,000 and my pension loan um that I just took out for a kitchen renovation is about 36,000 left on it. So I'm wondering if I

should pay and that's at 5%. I'm wondering if I should pay I guess work on paying the car off before my lease ends, pay extra payments toward it, or should I attack the pension loan? M.

Well, if you're just going to put this in the dead snowball, you would just do the smallest balance first, which would put the car there if that's your goal.

You want to keep the car?

>> I do. Yes. >> Okay. And what's your income?

>> Um, I'm at about 208.

>> Fantastic. >> Yeah. >> So, you're going to be able to knock this out pretty quick.

>> Yeah. Once I once I started this, because I've been Dave Ramseyish and I I'm getting serious now. I basically kind of stopped my retirement. I was had my money all over the place, disorganized, um saving in so many different pockets. So, I kind of organized that and realized I have so much more to put towards it. So, that's why I was able to kind of, you know, pay it down much more quickly. But, >> well, now you know you have the ability and discipline to save up for the next kitchen renovation.

>> Yes. >> So, are you done with debt completely?

You're you're never going to borrow a dime again. Are you at that place?

>> That's the plan. That is the plan. I'm I'm working very hard to not do it at all. Um, but I still have a mortgage and that's the bigger one. But yes, I I guess I'm just worried about the lease car if I should just allow it to just

>> I would work on getting that amount and just knock that thing out because you can throw payments at it, knock that 28k out in how many months, you think?

>> Um, so you think if I pay extra towards

the lease every month, it would pay it would it would I guess make it less old by the end of September? I would I would look at the agreement that you signed and talk to them and say, "Hey, look, I'm looking to buy this thing out. Here's the buy off amount. Can I make, you know, payments every month >> extra payment >> to work toward that?" And that way, you're not just sitting there sitting on a giant pile of savings.

>> Okay. Okay. So, that's what I will do.

Reach out to them, see if I can pay extra, >> and that will kind of lessen the amount >> um or get me to owning owing it owning it faster. >> Yeah. Either way, you're going to be okay. If you went and tacked this pension loan and knocked out 36K, you'd have the money by the time the lease is over to buy the car anyways,

>> right? >> Either way, you're prepaying the depreciation. >> It's still outstanding. I still I'm still working on the It was the credit cards that I paid off.

The pension loan and the car is still the outstanding one. >> Yeah. I'm just saying either way you hit it, you're going to have the money to have own this car outright by the time the lease is over. That's the important part.

You're not going to be in a lurch there. >> But I'm proud of you for making a big change. I mean, you've been turning to debt every which way, even making an amazing salary.

need to do I make 200 grand. What am I doing taking out loans?

>> Yeah. And I'm living paycheck to paycheck. And I'm just I'm not investing as much as I could. I've been investing, but not organized and diligently. But >> yeah, you could be doing way better for how hard you've been working.

>> I know. >> I'm proud of you. Hey, never too late to start. >> Yeah. Here's We want you to hear this, Tammy. like like just decide like you've already decided but decide every day uh

maybe take seven to 10 days and write something down every morning something that that is your words and but

something that's very declarative very simple I'm not going to

>> do debt ever again or I'm getting out of this and I'm never looking back something like that to change your mindset so that you begin to not see debt as an option ever again. It's like cutting something out of your appetite and then you lose the taste for it.

That's the challenge. This is a mental game and uh you can win it. You've already won so much. So, we're really excited for you. We're believing in you.

Thank you so much for the call. Good luck with that buyout. You're you're probably going to need to just do it as a lump sum. I don't know they'll allow extra payments. It might go toward the lease. So, again, look into that. But either way, just start stacking that cash and make those payments and get that thing owned fully.

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All right, heavy question, but we have to wrestle with it. If you die tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on? How would they pay the mortgage? Could they afford necessities, basic necessities like groceries? If anybody in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance. So, if that's you

and you're going, "Okay, that's we need to do something here. How do I figure out all the options?" It's really simple. Life insurance up life insurance has one responsibility to replace your income if you die. And term life insurance is the only kind of insurance that does that.

Uh the others like whole or permanent life insurance try to add in investing and that's a really bad product that doesn't do what it's supposed to do. You only need life insurance while someone depends on you financially. So if you're like most people, you need a policy worth 10 to 12 times your annual income for a term length of 15 to 20 years. And it should be a level policy, meaning the premium stays the same.

Go to ramseysolutions.com/termlifeguide.

That's ramseyolutions.com/termlifeguide

or you can get the link in the description of the show notes if you're on YouTube or podcast. Lisa joins us now

in Ohio. Lisa, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, we recently sold our home after

experiencing some financial difficulties and medical setbacks. Um, and we're just

looking for the best way to kind of move forward. We have three teenagers.

They're very involved in extracurricular activities, types of medical issues. We just kind of want to move forward. We want them to have a normal childhood.

Um, so yeah, just just kind of looking for the best way for us to move forward.

>> Okay. So, we need to paint a clear picture for us here. Um >> so when when we're tackling debt uh we've got two things that we have to do just at the top right we have to decrease expenses wherever however and

then we also need to increase income.

>> Uh so give us a picture of the debt. Um

but before you do that give us a quick uh uh household income. What's what what is our what is our take-home pay?

>> We're about I would say about 11,000 a month. 11,000 a month. That's good income. Very good.

>> Uh and is this double income?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Double income. Okay. Now, walk walk us through the debt. Smallest to largest. >> Sure. So, um we're looking at about I

would say we have 60,000 in cars. We've

got three cars. My 17-year-old

um and then the two of us. So,

>> that's the total debt is just the cars.

>> No. No. >> Okay. So, I want you to walk me through I want you to walk me through smallest to largest because that's what we teach in the debt snowball is to attack the smallest debt. So, walk us through that.

>> Sure. So, um 20,000 in credit cards. Um

and then, you know, we have I would say our medical debt we're looking at I don't know uh about 9,000. Um and then

um we just keep having these medical costs pop up. Um, periodically we'll kind of be making some good headway and then like my son has an anaphylactic food allergy so he'll wind up in the hospital where I'll have like scans that are $500

out of pocket. >> Sure. Are you using the credit cards to help supplement the medical costs?

>> Well, so my kids were still in daycare

when I had cancer. Um, so we had I had

to keep them in daycare. I wasn't able to like care for them during the day.

So, a lot of that is still left over from >> And by and by the way, we're not judging you. We're just trying to figure out how we're Yeah. >> So, let's keep going through. Is 9,000 in medical debt. Is that Is that the smallest debt you have?

>> Um, yeah. Yeah. Okay. What's next?

>> Just us chipping away at um We have Oh,

sorry. We have 13,000 in uh student loans. >> 13K. So, 9K medical, 13K student loans,

20,000 in credit cards. That's multiple cards. >> Mhm. >> So, what's the smallest credit card amount? >> Um 500.

>> Okay. All right. You see where I'm trying to drive you to this? I'm going to get I'm going to get George here, but any other debt outside the the 60,000 in

cars? We had three cars. What are the cars? Give me the three car amounts.

>> Uh about 25 25 and 10.

>> Okay. Are you underwater in all three of these or any of these have any equity?

>> Just in just in the one. We're underwater. >> Which one? Uh mine >> 25 >> 20 one of the 25s. Yeah.

>> Okay. Any other debt?

>> Um no. I mean our kids are in um our

kids are in activities which those are costing about oh let's say 8,000 a year.

>> Okay. That's on the chopping block. >> Significant. >> All right. I'm bringing in Dr. Camel here. He's got his lab coat on, stethoscope. He's got his scalpel.

>> Mostly scalp. just mostly what we need here. >> His scalpel is ready to go. All right, George, walk her through this.

>> Well, now while the medical issues, that is something that is out of your control and I'm so sorry that I I hope you're doing better than you were. Are you currently in remission or what's the status of the cancer? >> I am. Yeah, it's just those darn scans we have to have.

>> Have you done the math? You know the ins and outs of your insurance cuz I would know that like the back of my hand.

>> How much am I going to pay? What's the deductible? What's the out- of- pocket max? >> They didn't cover my chemo, so that kind of kicked our butts, too.

>> Um, >> do you have a high deductible plan or is it >> We're about $900 um a month in insurance and then our out-of pocket max is 7,500 a year.

>> Okay. So, now we kind of know here's how much this is going to cost us out of pocket max. >> Mhm. >> And do you guys have nothing in savings right now? Um, so from the sale of our

house, we have 18,000 after. So, um, we

had to pay like we paid a chunk of that medical debt off.

>> What's the rest of the 18,000 doing right now? What's the goal with that? >> Um, I have it in a high yield savings account. I just fill we had like $50,000

equity in our house and so I I my goal I just wanted to like pay ourselves back for that and get back into a house eventually. But I just I don't Is that like the best thing to do? I don't know. We're paying $2,600 in rent. That feels like I'm just flushing it down the toilet. >> Well, what's being flushed down the toilet is $102,000 in consumer debt with

varying interest rates. That's what's crushing you, not rent. So, the other part of this is we've been living high in the hog, taking out car payments for every single car we want.

>> Um, and that's the part where I go, all right, these cars could be offloaded to clear over half the debt. >> Oh, yeah. Not to mention a massive race.

What? Just give us real quick, what do you think the car payments are for all three of those cars? Do you know off the top of your head? >> Um, I do know it would be I would say

it's probably about 1,200.

>> My heart said 1,200 there. Ding, ding, ding. >> Imagine a $1,200 a month raise.

>> Now you can make progress on that credit card debt and you can get ahead of the medical stuff. So that's my goal for you guys is >> you're bringing home 132K a year, which is awesome. Uh, my guess is your expenses are right up there, too, >> cuz whatever the kids want to do, I want to give them a great childhood. >> Yeah. What are the $8,000 in uh kids activities a year?

>> Yeah. So, um sports. I mean, my son's a

golfer. My other son plays football, baseball, basketball. My daughter is in dance and tumbling and cheer.

>> Okay. Are they going to do any of these professionally?

>> Uh my son is a senior this year. He's the golfer. >> Like, is he like scholarship level?

>> Um I I mean I I don't know. I don't know

that colleges. He's kind of thinking more about trades. >> Well, the answer is no. >> Perfect. So, if he was you would have already known. >> So, here would be my take. If they're are they 16, 17, 18, >> 17, 13, and 11.

>> Okay. I would have a 17-year-old um start working and they're going to start funding their own extracurriculars. Okay. Two jobs. Oh, great. But it's still costing you eight grand a year to cover some of his stuff.

>> Well, he has been up to this point, I would say about 2,000 of it with golf.

So, yeah. I mean, he's right on the tail end of us covering, you know, that he's >> Listen, part of this thing and and I you said something that was very interesting at this at the top of the call. You said, "We want our kids to live a normal life and I get it. I completely get it.

There's no judgment coming from me.

However, your daughter's in three major things and one's enough and there might

be a season where she can't do any of it, where she she learns this is why >> and it maybe keeps her from getting into debt." Like you guys are going to have to make some changes and you have to throw the kids activities on the block.

>> You have to. And then you're putting skin in the game, too. You're saying, "Hey, mommy's got to sell her car and you're we're going to have to cut you down to one activity cuz we need to clean up a mess that your dad and I made over the past several years and we we know that health issues are going to continue in our family. We need to get ahead of this." And that takes priority over these other activities.

So, you'll get back to it, but the next 2 to 3 years, you're going to be just chunking 30 plus grand a year at this debt to clean it up. That's what it's going to take. That's the math behind it. And I believe you can do it if you offload the cars, get the expenses down.

Now we can breathe. We've got that margin to attack it. And just me, I would never pay a nickel for tumbling.

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Hey, how you doing with staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and then get a re uh a personalized plan

just for you. Head to the show notes, James Child's favorite place, treasures trove of goodness over there. Click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps and complete the quiz?" Great way. Let me tell you something about winning. I don't care whether you're trying to lose weight, whether you're trying to accumulate wealth, whether you're trying to grow in a relationship, I don't care what it is.

Um, knowing where you stand and and having a constant reminder of where is my progress is the key to sustaining growth. Um, we humans need progress and

uh when we get stuck, if we don't realize where we are in that gap between where we are, where we want to be, it can really slow us down. So, that quiz um is is a fabulous little tool. Brett is up in Maine. Brett, how can we help today?

>> Yes, I'm a 100% disabled vet. I have

several benefits. The the housing market is crazy. I am trying to figure out

should should I stick to the 27% of my

income for the payment and uh zero down

on a 15-year or should I or can I move

to a 30-year since I have a fixed income?

>> Well, first we want to say thank you for your service. You're a great American. Yeah, that's a that's some serious sacrifice, man. How are you doing?

>> Getting better every day. Better grace God. >> Good. >> Good. Good. >> Well, because of your um disability rating, the funding fee on that VA loan would be uh waved, which is great news because VA loans can seem like a great deal, but then you realize they're also riddled with their own issues. And the property requirements are also strict.

Uh interest can be higher. And so, I would tread with caution. And the biggest thing I I would tr caution you against is going in with zero down. So that makes me ask another question.

Where what's the state of your financial world right now?

>> I am 3 to six months from completing step two. Um I have a fully funded well

I have the I have the step one completed and put away. >> Good. Um, I expect another one to two

months to fully fund a 3 to six month

um, emergency fund and then after that

go to 3B if I should still accumulate a 10 to 20% down payment.

>> Okay. So, you were speaking uh, out of order for the baby steps. You're you have six months to go to get out of consumer debt.

>> Correct. >> Then it's going to take you another 3 months or so to stack up six months of expenses.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Then that puts you at a year from now, we'll be in baby step 3b saving up for a down payment.

>> Correct? Okay. How much money once you're out of debt and you have the emergency fund, how much money could you save up in that, let's say in a year if you had no debt?

>> 2000* 12, that's uh 24 grand.

>> Okay. So, you could save up 24 grand.

And what kind of house would you be looking at? Have you started looking at the price range in your area?

>> 150 to 215,000.

>> Okay. So, what my goal for you is to be,

can we put down 10, 15, 20% on this

house? And if that VA loan is the best

choice financially based on the rates and the fees and all of that, I'm totally fine with you doing that because that funding fee is waved. But I still would stick with a 15-year and work to pay it off as aggressively as possible.

Because here's what we found. People who take out a 30-year loan tend to pay it closer to 30 years than they do 15 or closer to 10. People who take out 15-year loans tend to pay it off in 10 or if you're the average baby stepper, seven years. And so there's a forced uh savings plan you have there when you get that 15-year. And worst case, it's done in 15 years. How old are you?

>> I'm 27. >> Amazing. Young guy. lot of life ahead of you. And that means this house searching is on pause because we have a year till we're even saving up the down payment.

Another year, maybe year and a half of stacking up the down payment. Then we can begin the the hunt.

>> Okay? >> So, here's what that means. Before you're 30, you're going to have equity in that home and be in a place that it's really peaceful instead of going, "Hey, this is now way too much of my take-home pay is being eaten up by this mortgage." Um, and then you're gonna pay it off before you're probably 40. Now, that's a game plan for some wealth building right there.

>> Love that. Again, thanks for the call, Brett. And, uh, glad to see that you're you're on your way up and hang in there, cheering for you. Uh, hold the line.

Do exactly what George said. And this is going to turn out to be a great great situation for you. Annie is joining us now in Iowa.

>> Hi. So, I have kind of an an investing saving question. So, me and my husband are both investing 15% of our income.

We're set to pay off our house next year. And I'm wondering Yeah, very exciting. Um, I'm wondering with the excess, we're kind of wanting to start saving for a future house and upgrade and pay that one in cash.

>> Love it. We had a meeting with our financial advisor and he suggested putting it in a Roth IRA so that the we

get taxfree growth versus I had kind of

planned on putting that in a brokerage account. >> And I don't >> they're wanting you to to pull out the contributions taxree. Is that what they're saying with the Roth IRA?

>> Correct. go ahead and max out the Roth IRA and then five years down the road when we want to step up in house just

pull out the um contributions.

>> I would personally just use a a non-retirement account if you're going to use it for non-retirement purposes. I like to keep things real clean. So, a Roth IRA is my retirement account. A brokerage account is used for things before I retire.

>> And so, you will have capital gains on that. And depending on your income and how long you you hold those investments, uh it'll likely be 15% is what you'll pay only on the growth. So if you throw in 100,000, it grows to 150,000, you'll pay 15% of 50,000 in taxes.

And the other thing is how how long is this going to happen? Is this like a 5year goal to upgrade in house in cash or is it two years?

>> I would say it's five years. Yeah.

>> Okay. If it's five plus years out, investing that money is fine. And if it's anything less than that, I start to get a little cautious and go probably better to park it in a high yield savings account uh to keep things more liquid cuz you don't want to get there and go, "Oh, the market took a negative 24% dip this year. There goes our our house fund, >> right?

>> Yes. >> How many years are you thinking?

I would say five years at the soonest, maybe 10 years.

>> Love it. >> It just depends >> kind of on our situation in that time.

We're not in a rush to move out, but we want to know that we want to pay cash for our next house. >> I love that. How old are you?

>> 26. >> Oh my gosh. Any kids?

>> No, not yet. >> Oh, we'll have the house paid off in five and a half years. So, we beat the average a little bit. >> Annie, that is incredible. >> That's what I was wanting to know. Can I just say you are going to be in like a

rare error for a young couple. I love this story. They're already thinking, but she's being caused all of this cuz most people go, "Why would you pay down your house? You're 26. You should you got a low rate. Just ride it out. Invest the difference." >> Yeah. Where's this patience come from for this young couple? What's going on, Annie? >> I've been a big fan of the show. My parents obviously um have raised me on

Dave Ramsey, so that's been a big part of it. But >> what's your household income?

>> Um about 180.

>> Good heavenly days. You guys are going to be rich. >> What's your mortgage payment? The principal and interest portion.

>> Yeah, about 1300.

>> So you're going to free up that amount plus all the margin you have being debtree, >> which means you're going to stack >> have about >> Yeah. 4,000 extra a month that we'll start probably stacking up.

>> 50 grand a year saved up for five years invested. >> Yes. >> You're going to have a couple hundred, 300 grand, 400 grand. >> Nice house in Iowa. Huh.

>> Yep. >> On top of the equity you have in your current home, which once it's paid off will be how much?

>> About probably 220 depending in five years what the market is like. But yeah.

>> I mean, my goodness.

>> Estate agent, the the title company, they're all going to be like, "What? You're pink. You're Yeah, they're going to think you guys are punking them. >> 30 years old buying a house in cash.

>> Yeah, they're not prepared for it. So, so happy for you. Uh what what great piece you guys are setting yourself up for, Annie. We're just applauding you.

Thanks for sharing the details because I think you modeled the way for a lot of young people that are listening right now. So, fantastic job. Thank you so much. >> These are luxurious questions you can ask when you follow the Ramsay plan to a tea. >> I'm telling you, so proud of her.

>> Yeah, really good stuff. Folks,

this young generation, they're fine.

>> They're going to be okay. They're going to >> The good ones are going to be fine.

That's real.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited that you're with us. David is up in Florida. David, how can we help?

Uh yes, I was calling to see um I lost my job about a month ago and we have a few months left to go until uh like money runs out and I'm just wondering when should I start considering selling my house. >> Now when you say the money runs out, runs out of where?

>> Well, we have a couple months of savings and um and also a severance package from my employer.

>> Are you u using the savings now or are

you able to live off the severance?

We're so far December.

>> How much do you have in savings?

>> Uh about 20,000.

>> Okay. Uh what were you making? What was your income, your take-home before uh being let go?

>> Uh base salary was 105 plus uh um

bonuses. >> Okay. Are you doing uh what kind of work were you in?

>> I was head of marketing for an e-commerce company. >> Okay. Um I'm assuming that you're aggressively you got recruiters helping you kind of that background what you've done seems like you're probably >> No, >> I haven't I haven't connected with any recruiters. I've been applying for jobs diligently.

Uh I think today I applied for about 20 and uh and also I've been reaching out to local businesses to see if they need any help with their marketing. >> Okay. >> Maybe maybe see if I can get freelancing or something. >> Great.

Um, because again, they don't win unless they get you something. So, I I would add that to the strategy here.

>> Um, okay. >> But the other thing that I would tell you, and again, I'm giving you advice on what I would do if I were in your shoes, and what I would do is while I'm, you know, prospecting and hustling and connecting, uh, I do not want to touch that emergency fund. Um, that's just me.

>> And so while I've got the uh severance

that's paying the bills and you may be doing this, are you working even just side jobs right now to bring in some money to supplement the severance so that we're stacking some cash?

>> I haven't like applied for any like entry level positions or anything yet.

>> I I'm just telling you >> I'm I'm open to to working. Yeah,

definitely. But I haven't applied to anything. >> Well, I would. And my point is is you know whether this is uh I'm working at a Walmart or I found a manufacturing job where it doesn't you know I >> Door Dashart >> I'm going where can I be a minimum of 20 to 25 bucks an hour because this is just

this is just a uh >> a bridge >> but um you want to slow down the burn rate that's the goal here while getting that job. Are you is this the only income in the family? Are you single, married? >> No, my wife she works as well. Okay.

What is she making?

>> She makes a little over 80 a year.

>> Okay. So, can you guys live off the 80 and not touch this?

>> Um, not not no not not really. No.

>> And what's that due to the Do you guys have a big mortgage?

>> Um, well, we got we do have quite a bit of of bills. Our bills Yeah, we our mortgage is about uh 2500.

Well, if you include like property taxes and insurance about 2500. Okay. And then do you guys have any debt outside of the mortgage? >> Uh, our cars will be paid off like March of next year. >> Dude, I'm offloading these cars before I burn through my savings. What are the cars worth?

>> Um, they are worth roughly uh probably

about 15 a piece. 15 a piece.

>> What do you owe on them?

>> Uh, three and five.

>> What are the payments?

>> About 800 a month. >> Yeah. Why not take eight grand from your savings, pay off the cars? That frees up actual money in your budget every month.

>> Yes, >> I'd actually sell the car. >> Would I would I do Would I do that earlier or would I do Okay, sell versus >> I'd sell one at least, you know, instead turn around and go buy something is the issue. >> No, I know, but still, you know, instead of using that I I mean, yeah, I'm with you, George. >> You'll still have 12K in savings.

Um, you still have severance. You'll free up 800 bucks a month. My goal would be, have you guys ever made a budget together? Just sat down and said, "Hey, here's >> Okay.

>> which means no eating out whatsoever. We are only covering covering the four walls. Housing, utilities, insurance,

food, keeping food on the table. That's the major things. Outside of that, there's really nothing else you need right now. Correct.

Correct. >> Okay. And until you get a stable income, until you get back up to making, you know, 200 as a household, we got to live like we make 80 grand a year.

>> That's right. >> And and you can see we didn't immediately go to you selling the house. That's what you proposed. But but let's walk through the numbers. >> That is that's that's the scariest part to me because I don't I don't know where at what point do I decide and I know right now it's it's taking kind of taking time for people's house. >> Well, I mean, you guys bring home still four to five grand a month. What is she taking home?

Uh she brings about Say that again.

>> Is she bringing home four grand a month?

>> Uh about f about five to six. And then I also I bring in um I have a a retirement from the military.

>> And that's what I'm saying. You guys can't figure out how to live on seven grand a month right now. That's the scary part. We were we were living we were we were we had about 20,000 or more

that we didn't well actually there was more that we didn't need but we got budgeted in like Christmas and vacations and stuff so we can cut everything out.

We could probably cut back about 30,000.

>> That's what I'm saying. That's you don't need to sell the house. See the house stays there. Don't touch it. >> You don't want to mess with that. That that that can't be your fall back. And quite frankly I think what George has figured out is it doesn't need to be your fall back. This isn't we don't use the house and then throw the family into disarray uh unless it's the only option.

And I don't think this is I mean while you're finding something between your military let's run these numbers again for you just real quick. You're bringing in how much a month on the military benefit?

>> Uh 1,200 >> 1,200 and then your wife's bringing six.

>> Yes sir. >> So that's 7200. >> 7200. A mortgage is 2500 of that. So why do you need an extra $5,000 a month?

Where is this money going?

>> Well, there is we did set up like the envelope plan where a lot of money gets set aside for like birthdays and Christmas and stuff like that. So, there's all this money that that moved over for like saving for >> Okay, but I'm talking 60 grand a year that we need to account for here.

>> That's five grand a month. So, that's the part where I go I think we've been a little lacadasical. We've got a little comfortable and I need to I need need to feel some fire under your butt to go, dude. We need to do something now. We got this debt we need to clean up. I don't have a job right now. Our lifestyle just got cut over 60% because

of this income hit. So everything we were doing before is off the table right now. We'll get back to there once you're making 120 grand a year again. We can reinstate the syncing funds and the vacation funds and all that. But right now, we're not doing any investing.

We're not doing any spending. All we're doing is trying to keep food on the table, keep the mortgage paid, keep the lights on. >> And and George is right, by the way. Uh I I'm fully in board with George. I would I would pay off the two cars today like as soon as you hang up. And the reason is because you just gave yourself another 800 to the equation we just ran, which means we're now at 8,000 a month.

>> Okay. But just I pulled up my my budget.

My bills are about 6,000 a month, not not including food and and stuff like that. >> Why doesn't that include food?

>> Well, that Well, there's the way I've set the budget up is more of like uh these are non-negotiable kind of like bills that are the same every single month. I don't believe you have $3,500 of non-negotiable bills outside the mortgage. I would do an audit with your wife tonight and you both go, "Can we live without this for a season for three months? Can we live with can we scale down Christmas to a, you know, white

elephant secret Santa swap?" The answer is yes. >> This would be a very popular segment, I think, on your YouTube channel. I'm going to suggest it. >> Just slash no house call from Dr. Camel.

It's all Zoom though and you just sit there and you go through cuz I think you could literally stethoscope I'll give you one. All right. I'm in.

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All right, Noel is joining us in Oregon.

Noel, how can we help today?

>> Hi guys. Um, I'm such a huge fan of the show. Um, thank you. Basically,

>> yeah, of course. I've been watching you guys for years now. Um, so basically I'm

25 years old and I almost make $90,000 a year. >> Wow. >> I'm currently >> What do you do? >> Yeah, I'm doing uh digital marketing.

>> Good for you, Noel. Way to go.

>> Thank you so much. Um, and I'm currently working on my MBA program and um, I've been dating my boyfriend for almost two years now. And when we first met, he was making a similar salary to me. But um

since a couple of months ago, he was let go from his job and now he's been unemployed for going on 3 months now. Um

we currently live together and my concern is with all of our combined student loan debt, car debt, and consumer debt. Um I'm a little bit worried if he doesn't find a job, uh should we continue living together? Do we start splitting everything 50/50? Um,

do I dip into my savings to help sort of

like All right, hold on. Hold on. Okay.

Uh, I got to stop you here. Should we start splitting things 50/50? What does that mean? >> What have you been doing? >> That's what I want to know.

Um, so basically when we decided to start living together, he said that he will cover the rent, which is about like 1,300 a month, and I would pay for groceries and our utilities, and then everything else we pretty much take care of independently.

>> Okay. >> And now he can't afford it because, right, >> he's the broke roommate. And so you're going, I guess we need a split. Should I cover? Who's been Well, wait a second.

He's been out of work for three months.

Did he have a severance?

um he got his PTO pay, but um

>> who's been paying the rent? Who's been paying the rent for the last three months?

>> So, he paid the rent last month and then I paid the rent this month and um yeah.

>> All right. So, now here's what's interesting to me. So, you called us and we're so thrilled you did. I mean, couldn't be any happier. Um because this

is serious stuff, but the fact that you called us and the way you've set this question up, you're like, it leads me to believe that there's been some conversations maybe or he has made some

statements or there's a pattern of the way he's handling this that's got you going, uhoh, there are red flags swirling. So what what is it that makes you call and ask this question of should this mean that uh I put the brakes on

sharing you know all this kind of stuff and not think about this dude his marriage potential what's happened

>> um well I think what's happening right now is that he

has been interviewing for places but nobody seems to be hiring and >> right >> he doesn't really want to take a lower paying job or like two part-time jobs in the meantime. And I'm just concerned about how what jobs he's willing to take versus not and being potentially too picky in this environment where it also seems like nobody's hiring.

>> Well, that's true. So, uh just a quick for the rest of our audience and for you, the job market is very soft right now. Unemployment is ekking up. Um this

is this is a real thing. So, the job market's very very soft. So what that means is is that it does take longer to get hired because companies aren't hiring as as quickly because quite frankly the economic uncertainty with tariffs and everything else a lot of companies are holding and in a holding pattern. So that's real. But what is also real is is this young man for his own mental and emotional health needs to be doing something.

And uh I get the temptation to go I

don't want to go backwards.

Um, but yeah, this should concern you.

And yes, I would not be thinking about anything in this relationship. I I I'll just play your dad for a second because I'm probably old enough to be your dad.

Um, yeah, I would I would not be thinking about long-term with this young man until we see how he handles this storm. This is a real storm. Um, let me

say this on his behalf so I don't sound like the angry, you know, boomer dad.

Uh, I'm an exer, by the way. Um

there we know from research that losing a job has the same emotional impact as losing a loved one. So I do have a lot of empathy for him and I want you to have that empathy and understanding that he's three months into having his world rocked and and so I do have some

sympathy there as well as empathy. But

to your question uh and I want George to

jump in here. Uh I absolutely think today is the day we we should have been separate. I mean, I would have never told you to live with the guy. Um, uh,

but you are. No judgment. I'm just telling you I wouldn't have told you to do it. Um, but I would be separating

everything. What what is yours is is yours. What's his is his. And you guys split everything down the middle.

And unfortunately, you're romantic roommates. But that's where it ought to be, George. Yeah. I think this is not a a punishment to him of you.

I'm moving out because you don't have a job. I think you go, "Hey, this was a mistake." And it's just this is making it more and more clear.

I would have more onus if I needed to cover rent that month. I'm going to be doing Instacart that night.

But because he has you to float him, I think that's creating a sense of kind of comfort and complacency in >> and yes, it should scare you by the way as he's a future mate potentially. I'm going to tell you something right now and Stacy knows this.

>> If I lost my job, there is no sitting around for three months. Nothing. I'm

working. I'm busting it. Uh, and so

yeah, you ought to be concerned by that because here, while I acknowledge that it is an emotional blow, I'm also saying that life sucks sometimes.

It hurts and we don't just sit at home.

So imagine you with two littles and if this happens to this guy. So yeah, this ought to scare the crap out of you.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I feel like too, like when I talk to him about it, like my mindset is like, if I want a job by this date, I'm having it. I don't care what it is or how much it pays.

Like, I'm just going to go get it. >> Love it. >> And I just feel like he's waiting for like the perfect job. And I I I don't know.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, hey, Noel, I'm not telling you what to do in this relationship, but I'm telling you to press pause on the relationship, meaning you're not thinking about what this looks like in the future until we see how this dude steps up. And by the way, George, do you have any problem with her telling him that?

>> Well, I can tell she's very professional with her language and her words, and so this is it's it's going to feel like an awkward conversation cuz it is. It's going to be uncomfortable. And how he reacts is not up to you. So that's the

tough part. And it sounds like he's going to be probably deflecting, making excuses, probably going to get upset and defensive. And again, that's very telling. Yeah. When's the lease up?

>> Um, April.

>> Yeah. >> It's a long ways away. >> It's a long ways away. Cuz I was like, if this thing were around the corner, I would just tell you, hey, you know what? Let's redefine the relationship. I'm willing to stay in the relationship, but I'm not going to live with you. Uh, I'm concerned about >> I think you need to say, I need to go find a roommate who was able to pay their share of the bills. >> Well, that's 100% the case.

>> And I would choose a a female friend at that point. And I would not move in with anyone else until marriage. >> Sitcom, Thre's Company. You don't even remember that. >> I do. Three company, too.

>> There we go. >> But Noel, seriously, you've got to take care of your finances right now because your name's on the lease.

>> Yeah. >> And my fear is you go, "Well, I guess I'll cover it this month. Don't cover it." >> And then month and get a roommate.

That's kind of a a real And by the way, that's not passive aggressive. That's a legitimate move that's protecting your finances. And if Sparky doesn't like it, tough.

>> Yeah. I just don't know if, you know, I should just wait and see or if I need to start. >> No, you shouldn't wait and see.

>> No, you've already got an instinct that this dude is showing a lack of character. >> I'll say it so you don't have to. That's why you called us.

>> Yeah. >> And I'm telling you, sweetheart, you're I'm I'm begging you as your fake podcast

dad, your instincts are right.

Your instincts are completely right. I can tell by your tone you are not being cruel and out of control and overreacting. >> You are not dramatic, Noel. You are you are sharp. You you've got your act together. And by the way, you deserve a guy, whether you're living with him or not, who's like, man, Noel's worthless

100%. >> I'm not going to sit around and play video games and let her pay the rent while I'm eating ramen noodles. And the research bears this out. Professor Scott Galloway says what women are looking for is a man's ability to provide future resources. And so, this is a signal and you should be paying attention to it.

Don't wait, Noel. Put the pressure on this young guy. If he's >> listen to your fake podcast dad, >> I've never said that before. >> So much wisdom. >> Take it from your fake podcast dad.

>> You're worth more, Noel. You're worth way more. And uh you got to take care of you. >> I get to be fake podcast uncle. Calling it. I was going to say brother.

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Today's question comes from Hudson in New Mexico. My parents are in their early 70s and they think their money will run out in the next several years.

They want me to sell my condo and buy a bigger home with an in-law suite that they can live in. They will contribute $225,000 toward the purchase of the new place.

Additionally, there is a life insurance policy that will leave me and my mom $450,000 when my dad passes away. The problem is that my wife does not want to live under the same roof as my parents as they do not get along. If my wife drives my parents away, I will end up with nothing from the insurance policy as they will cash it in instead to use it for their living expenses. What do I do?

>> Oh my gosh. First of all, this is framed terribly. The He's created >> He just put a wedge impossible. Do I choose my wife or my parents?

That's the real question here. >> Boy, it's a non It's a non-issue. You got to You got to go with the wife. But it doesn't have to be all or nothing on this.

George, am I right? Well, there's a now there's a price tag on the parents relationship. He's going, "Hey, I'm losing out on half a million if I go with my wife's side." He can tell the parents, "Hey, you're not living with us." >> Yeah.

Number one, for your marriage, but number two, just for your own independence. My confusion is they're in their early 70s. They can use that 225 grand to go get their own place.

>> Yeah. >> And if they can't afford that, they can use that towards rent for the next several years. >> Such a false choice. I would not combine my financial life. I've only seen it go poorly and it gets very messy financially when you go, well, this house is partially ours because we put in this portion and we want to do this renovation and we want it this way.

>> I think it's going to create an even more rift in your marriage. So, for those reasons, I'm out and I would leave the half a million on the table from the life insurance policy and go, I chose to be married to this person, the old leave and cleave. And this is we are going the opposite direction with mom and dad moving in >> creating uh some awkward situation and tension. U you know because I think it's actually maybe valuable. We'll see. I I

let's put you in this scenario George.

Let's put you in this guy's actual shoes. Okay. Your parents come to you

and and they say what what what Hey, George, sell your condo. Get a bigger house with an in-law suite. we'll give you 200 grand toward it and uh there'll be a life insurance policy to help cover expenses once dad passes.

>> I go, "Mom, dad, that's very sweet of you um to to bring this idea to me." I

talked it over with my wife, Whitney, and it just doesn't make sense for our family right now. Selling a condo is a big move. It's very expensive, and you know, we want to help in any way we can, but we don't want to combine our lives in this way, living under the same roof.

And we love you guys. And if you need any assistance or advice on what to do with this money to help create a life for yourselves, I'm happy to help. >> Okay, good. >> That's it. That's what I would say. >> I love that. >> Leave it there. >> I love that. So good. Uh Phil is on the line right here in Nashville. Phil, how can we help? >> Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Um I'm 72 years old and I'm halfway through a 30-year mortgage, so I got 15 years left. I owe $234,500

on the mortgage, which is at 3.5%.

I also have a brokerage account of $291,000 that's been earning me 7.1%.

I have two IRAs with $750,000

in them, and I also get uh $55,000

annually through Social Security. My question is, should I take the brokerage account money and pay off the mortgage or keep the mortgage uh for the mortgage

uh interest on my taxes?

>> Mathematically, keeping the mortgage for tax purposes doesn't make sense. It's stepping over a dollar to pick up a quarter. And so, what I personally, if I was in your shoes at your age, going, man, okay, I'll pay it off by 87 at this rate. I think life's too precious and I want you to have a retirement with dignity.

And for those reasons, I would free up that mortgage payment today. >> Yeah. >> You could cash that money out. You'll have the capital gains taxes on the brokerage account, but you'll still likely have enough to cover the mortgage, right?

>> Oh, yeah.

>> I would do it. And how much is your mortgage every month? What number are you freeing up?

>> Uh, it's $2,380 a month. >> I just gave you a $2,300 a month raise, my friend. >> And you can do with that what you want. you can go invest that. Uh I would continue to invest it if you don't need the money and just keep piling onto that nest egg and then you got 55 grand from

social security plus you'll have a you know within the next several years you'll have multi-million dollars in there >> in that nesting. So you're going to be okay either way. I just don't want to live for the next 15 years with a mortgage if I don't have to.

>> Right. All right. >> Especially because your mortgage is a guaranteed fixed rate you're making.

Right. that 3 and a half% is what you're making by paying it off. The market, Lord only knows, I hope it continues to do well, but in the short term, it could be negative - 22% next year. And so,

it's it's hard to compare them apples to apples. But what I will say is freeing up that mortgage, especially at 72, is just going to give you some peace. It's one less thing living in your head rentree.

>> Yes. And that way, um, I would also be debtree. I don't have any other debts.

>> Yeah. You reduce your risk. You reduce the need to touch the nest egg. Are you married? >> Uh, no. I'm single. >> Oh, wow. Phil, single guy, 72. You just

freed up some money. >> Yeah. Are you in good health?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you'll likely live into your 90s with this freed up mortgage payment.

Uh, which is incredible.

>> All right. >> So, I would go crunch the numbers in your budget and go, "What kind of life can I live now? Can I spend a little more? Can I give a little more? Can I invest a little more with this freed up mortgage payment?" And I don't think you're going to miss the the brokerage account sitting there. You could stack it back up if you want.

>> Right. All righty.

>> Congrats, man. I feel like we're celebrating Phil's debt freedom today.

>> I think I I think we are. I mean, and and and who knows? I mean, the the future's bright, Phil. I mean, you're an eligible bachelor that George just found $23,000 extra income. So, come on, man.

>> All right. Time to travel, I guess.

>> There we go. >> Hey, Phil, are you a good-look guy?

>> I think he I think he's a good-look guy.

I do. He sounds like >> reasonably. >> All right. We're gonna we're gonna apply uh to get him on the Golden Bachelor.

>> You know, it's interesting. True story.

This is crazy that you said that.

>> My wife and daughter, I've got a 16-year-old daughter and they love this Golden Bachelor. >> It's so much more entertaining. >> I've not seen I've not seen it. Phil needs to check it out. >> But I feel like Phil, you could be the real life Golden Bachelor. I mean, do you know how many uh ladies out there your age uh need a stable man like you who's got plenty of dough? I mean, come on, buddy. Get on those cruises.

Uh, okay. Thank you so much.

>> Congrats, Phil. Hey, Phil had enough.

>> Phil said, "Don't get involved." >> He's like, "Guys, I I got this. I got this." >> I asked for financial advice, not relationship advice. >> Yeah. We went to the Golden Bachelor, which, by the way, he may not even know what that is.

I mean, >> it's a television show. There's a thing called television for the young kids out there. I got to explain it to them. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Do >> you watch this Golden Bachelor? >> I saw an episode or two and it was a little cringey for my take. And that's why I want Phil on there.

I think he'd be much better. much better candidate for the show. >> You know, >> it's just awkward. They did like boo the old the older ladies, they're doing like photo shoot and kind of this budois thing and I went this is too much for me.

>> Okay. You just said that you just you took me to a place that quite frankly I didn't want to go to. I I'm not going to unsee that. >> You're welcome.

>> Again, uh you know, in Phil's case though, this is a great thing here.

that decision, George. I love that the I love that you walked them through that and that's that's such a good because to your point uh I've seen some data recently what is the average uh age now

the people are reaching isn't it it's gotten higher >> oh like as far as longevity >> yeah longevity >> yeah like cuz if you take in the you know the average age well that's factoring in infant mortality and other things so when you look at it if you made it to 72 there's and you're in good health there's a strong likelihood you'll make it into your 80s and 90s >> right right so So, it's not in that situation, it's not too late. And to your point, I love how you laid that out. You know, like this money can be working for you.

>> And if he doesn't need the nest egg right now, it just sits there.

Yeah. >> So, you have 750 today. 7 years from now, he's 79. 1.5 is sitting there.

>> Oh. >> At 86, it's at 3 million.

>> That's fantastic. >> So, quite the >> What is uh 86y old George Camel doing with his time with all the money you're going to have? >> Hopefully, just not being bothered. I would just like to remain unbothered.

That means you're just sitting in your lazy boy unbothered. >> I never said it was lazy. I could sit outside. >> I ask you, "What are you doing?" And you say, "I just want to be unable playing a 99year-old Ken Coleman in pickle ball." >> Now, that's my goal. Now, that's an answer. And I think a lot of people would like to see that. I really do.

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>> That's right. Jeff is up in Michigan.

Jeff, how can we help today?

>> Yeah. So, um 49 years old. My wife

recently passed away from cancer.

>> I'm so sorry. Sorry, Jeff.

>> Yeah. So, we're good shape financially. No debt other than our mortgage. um she was a teacher and um one thing we talked about

a lot about during treatments and cancer treatment and all that was you know we saved all this money we responsible

um you know wish we would have done more trips more vacations instead of just we did a lot of home projects ourselves we

didn't hire out a lot of contractors we both have kind of a background and kind of a fearless trait to take stuff on and

um you know where where's that fine line of living life and still putting money

away to do the right things you know working still to find what my new budget is you know I'm dealing with all that and there's just a lot of stuff unanswered questions and you know >> how recent did she pass >> six weeks ago >> end of July goodness gracious

wow >> well I I would uh just Give yourself some grace and time to grieve right now.

>> I wouldn't even be thinking about a budget. I would just do enough to make sure your bills are covered and taken care of and you got food on the table.

>> But man, I mean, I can't imagine the the fog of grief that you're in right now.

And so, are you in a good spot financially to just kind of float and grieve and cover the bills and and get some help and heal? >> Yeah. Yeah. When we bought this house

eight years ago, we did everything was based on one budget and one income. if something would happen looking back, you know, we're grateful for it, but you know, it was all based on one income. We both made roughly the same amount of money. Um, I had a little bit higher income, but you know, it was Yeah. And

the biggest thing I'm fighting right now is insurance cuz she's a teacher, so health insurance was there >> and so I'm paying COBRA, which is outrageous. But for the for the next four months, you know, out of all our out of pocket was matched and met in February. So

versus starting over. >> What is your uh what's your work situation?

>> I'm a sales rep. >> Okay. And so you have no insurance through your company?

>> No, we do not. >> Okay. >> Nope. Jeeoff, one piece of homework I would give you, uh, check out our friends at Health Trust Financial and see if they can get you a a lowerpriced plan. >> You can go to healthtrustfinanicial.com and just kind of get the quote and see what what they're offering, what the rate is to help you um, shoulder some of this burden right now. Did she have any life insurance or anything?

>> That's part of my fight. We had she had one that was through school and I found out yesterday I'm going to get taxed on that one because it was one that she did not contribute to. It was just one that they provided.

>> And um >> I imagine it wasn't a lot.

>> No, it was it was 75 enough, you know, covered funeral expenses and everything else. So I didn't have to take anything out of savings and all that.

>> Yeah. But you know, she she'd have started her 22nd year this year. And um

every other year she elected the supplemental life insurance through school or through the insurance plan, which was 150 to 200k, depending on which one she selected or was available each year. And they're telling me that she did not elect it last year. And I have a hard time believing that after doing that every other year. and it's just fighting with few people to try and get the information because I can't access her documents unless they open things up for me.

And so >> she was very detail- oriented and I can't imagine she would have not elected that right >> last year.

found the tumor um right around Halloween. So all her insurance paper would have been submitted before then.

And so it's, you know, it's just those fights, those are the ones that are driving me nuts right now that >> But even without her, >> even without her income and and even with the Cobra, I I I'm wondering how

much margin you have every month just off your income.

>> I'm still clearing I'm still clearing between 8 800 and your grand.

>> Okay. >> Where I can that's extra on >> on top of your bills money right now.

>> That's after all bills are paid. Yeah.

>> Okay. Well, your question was how do you balance Cobra. >> Okay. Including Cobra. >> Okay. Good. So, you're wanting to know how you balance quote living for today versus saving for the future, especially after, you know, your life just changed dramatically. I mean, the picture that you had for the future is ju is just gone. >> And you have to grieve that and create a new one for yourself. Uh, and you're still a young guy. You're 49. Are you in good health?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, once once you've grieved and you've begun to heal, I think then you can start dreaming a little bit again and go, okay, what does the next 5year, 10 year, 15 plan look like for me?

>> And part of that is an intentionality to just, you know, let's get the mortgage knocked out in the next decade, but also

what are the things that were on the back burner that you don't want to have regrets about later on. >> Yeah. I I'm curious to know what your uh investment portfolio is, what's your retirement accounts look like?

Um, we're sitting pretty good between IAS and everything else we had combined.

I just spent time the other day with our investment guy kind of signing the paperwork over into my name, all her stuff. And then we're sitting at about 400 there. Plus, she has a pension and

I'm waiting for the paperwork from the state because the other part of that will be taking a lump sum on the pension

or riding it out and taking whatever that's going to be. >> Yeah. >> Monthly income. >> Yeah.

Generally what we find is that taking the lump sum and investing it is a better option if you're not going to need the money cuz you have control over it. The pension has a terrible rate of return. Um there's risk there and it it you know I don't know what the survivor benefits are if it all gets passed down to you or if it's 50% what the rate is but you'll have much more control on your own taking that lump sum and investing it.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. So, even with your 400 grand, at 62, you'll likely have 1.5

million if you added nothing to it. And so, I would just continue on with the baby steps. Um, you do you have kids?

>> We have an adult daughter with a four-year-old grandson. >> Oh, wonderful.

Well, I would lean on family right now.

Lean on that support. Get your 15% investing still into retirement accounts. Work on anything extra. Put some toward the house.

But also, I would sit down with a budget and go, "What are some fun things that >> Yeah. that you need to be doing now, maybe that you didn't get to do, you know, you were a caretaker, I imagine, for a while and going through a real tough season. So, what are those things that do light you up and bring you some joy? >> Yeah, I love that.

>> I love that. And Jeeoff, I was going to ask, uh, on the heels of what George just said, I think he's right.

Maybe you thought, well, that's probably the one she would have most wanted to go to. Well, the only place we went out of the country for our honeymoon and we cut that short both because we both got sick and so she wanted to never go out of the country again. That was our first and only trip out of the country. >> Okay. >> And um >> but what about a place that you guys talked about that you'd like to go to?

>> We were supposed to go to Yellowstone this past summer and we started planning for that last fall um before she got diagnosed. >> I'm going to throw it out there. I'm going throw it out. trip. >> I think that's the trip that you take and you honor her and you make it a part of your healing process. I I I I would definitely think about that, you know, and uh >> and Yellowstone's beautiful.

>> Yeah. You know, and it'll be very >> You know, I was so very fortunate for the last nine months that my employer, you know, I collected my pay and just said, "Hey, take care of family and sales." That's great. >> You know, I was able to do a lot of that remotely >> and um you know, kind of reverted back to COVID times and um >> Right. >> you know, so I'm so grateful for that that you know otherwise I couldn't get

back the nine months I had. >> Yeah. What was her name? Jeff.

>> Uh Kim. >> Kim. >> Kim. Well, we want to honor her legacy and I know you are going to do that and have done that. >> Um by the way, you have just lived your life. By the way, you take care of your family, take care of your finances, and a great reminder to hug your loved ones and know that tomorrow isn't promised.

And that's why we prepare for the future because we just don't know what it will hold. And so, uh, we can't go full yolo, but you can prepare. And you guys have done a great job of that, being debtree, having money in the bank. And we wish you the best on the healing journey, my friend.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay show and the fair Twins Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside and Mike is going to start us off in Florida. Mike, how can we help?

>> Uh, so I really uh h have had a few uh

major life events go on. Um,

I've uh recently had to uh relinquish my

uh rental apartment and move my uh wife

and son into a one onebedroom and uh

really had to just stay there and try and save up income. Um and

>> did you get evicted? What do you mean relinquish?

So, um, I was the, uh, sole income for

my family and, um, we didn't have the

every dollar or the Ramsay solutions way of doing things. So, I didn't have a budget and, um, so it just got piling up

and piling up and rather than get evicted, um, my wife and I decided to talk to our landlord and say, "Hey, we we don't want to be leave on bad terms." And so we relinquished it without uh having an eviction on our record.

>> Okay. So essentially you kind of broke the lease, had a mutual agreement to say, "Hey, we can't afford to live here anymore. Can we leave on good terms?" >> Yes. >> So you guys downgraded to a one-bedroom that you can afford. What What income do you guys have right now? >> So So right now I am uh delivering

pizzas and doing Door Dash and uh Uber

Eats uh to supplement my income. I would

probably say my income is probably around 25 to 30. Um, with that being uh

fluctuational uh based on tips.

>> So, you're making about two grand a month right now.

>> Correct. >> Okay. >> Uh, my wife is uh currently working part-time for the county and she's

probably bringing in uh 20K uh herself.

>> Okay.

with that. And uh I do want to uh

explain the one-bedroom situation is actually staying with a blended family.

Uh I'm staying with my in-laws right now in a 10 by 12 bedroom uh as a family of

three. >> Well, all three of you are staying in there, >> correct? >> Okay. And how old is your kid?

>> And uh so my son is a year and a half.

>> Okay. You're in the same bedroom with your in-laws. You're all sleeping in the same room. >> Oh, no. No, no. Uh, my wife and my wife,

myself, and my son are in the same room.

>> Oh, okay. Got it. All right. Sorry. I just >> And you're not paying any kind of rent or you don't have any expenses there for housing right now. They're just letting you crash.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, what's your question today?

>> So, my question today is I have a huge

passion uh to start my own business, start my own side hustle. I don't know if it's going to be more harm than good if I was to invest that in a uh startup

and try and bring in some income for myself. I'm very much a

uh work or performance-based worker. So, I'm going to uh I would invest all my time in doing that. Uh >> what's the business >> in my off? >> So, I'm a finance guru. I feel um

>> a guru and I like to deal with numbers and >> that doesn't make you but that doesn't make you a guru.

>> A guru means like you're widely respected because of the I just want to help you out there because I'm a little nervous about where we're going with this. What is the business?

>> It's a just a uh bookkeeping uh

accounting. Uh, it's what I want to go to school for and I feel like bookkeeping would be the first level in doing that. >> Have you done any bookkeeping before?

>> I have. I have about a year and a half to two years experience, entry level.

>> Great. And so right now, let's play this out. What would you charge? What's the going rate for somebody like you with your experience? Um, I don't know if it's an hourly thing. Uh, give it give us the numbers here.

So, I was thinking um I it would be a

monthly uh recurrent fee. Uh I would be

charging anywhere from 3 to 500 depending on the size of uh the companies. If they're a smaller business, it'll probably be about 350. I would track all their uh >> financial transaction. >> How many hours do you anticipate um uh

working for 350 bucks?

So, I'm thinking anywhere from uh about

10 to 15 hours per client.

>> And you're only going to charge 350 bucks a month.

>> Uh just starting now? Uh yes. Um

>> and you have no credentials right now?

>> No credentials. I uh do plan on going to school, but at this moment, I figured increasing my income is top priority.

And so >> I Okay. The reason I'm walking you through this is to be a sounding board because that's what you wanted from us.

>> I don't know in this particular in your financial situation unless you've got previous clients um that can uh open up doors for you and

that's certainly worth trying. If you've got that to where you could pick up some people on the side and you can start doing this for extra income then great.

Uh the other thing about this business is that it doesn't require a whole lot of investment to get up and going.

You're not buying you're not buying machinery.

Um, so that's a positive,

>> but >> I'm, you know, >> I'm projecting no more than $500 uh just

for the startup cost and the LLC created and computer >> and stuff like that. So, >> I wouldn't put a lot of effort into that right now. I would see if I could get some people if we can throw the the uh the fishing rod out there, throw the the cast the rod, and let's go. Let's see if we can find something.

And if we can pick up something, let's just go do that. Let's just do basic 1099 if somebody small business. Let's see what we can get. I wouldn't invest a nickel right now, George, in trying to launch this business.

So, it's not the time to kind of like invest into a passion project. I love the idea of you making income. So, if you can get a few clients, let's do that and use the proceeds from that to then fund this thing later on to get the education. But right now, you guys can't afford to breathe. you'd be better served working at Walmart stocking shelves.

>> Uh I've tried applying everywhere. I gone to Walmart multiple times during the week and I've asked to speak to a manager trying to get that on-site job and >> and they tell you go online >> and I appreciate that gumption, but we don't just And my point is you keep going. >> You keep going. You you right now have got to do anything. If you show up on a construction site and go, "Do you need a laborer?" Um, and and I'll I'll give me a shovel.

Uh, I'll carry bricks around the site.

Like, that's the level of of urgency

that you need right now.

>> Mhm. >> We don't just, you know, and I appreciate you went to Walmart, but your response to me should be, you're right.

You're right, Ken. I'm continuing to do that, and I've done Walmart. It's not working out, but I'm going to go to I'm going to go to Target next or I'm going to Big Lots or I'm going, you know, and I'm going to show up again on a construction site. I'm gonna tell you something right now, George. I've said this before, but in today's current environment, if I was looking for fast money that was decent money, I would

literally get in my car and drive around construction sites. I'm not saying that you're going to get something every time you go, but you know, they need a lot of times you're going to find that they need somebody to just do something hard work and and manual labor u is not the

place where everybody's lining up.

>> There's not a line out there. Well, if you live in a neighborhood, you got clients there cuz you know, as Dave says, rich people are scared of leaves.

So, you just go around and say, "Hey, I saw your your grass a little overgrown. I I've been cutting loans in the neighborhood. Be happy to do it. Here's my rate." You're going to have to get creative uh until you can get this this side hustle off the ground. But right now, we need to get some consistent income. See if your wife can work more.

I don't know what the child care situation is, but if we have that under control, both of you need to be working 40, 50 hours a week to clean up the mess, get to a stable place so that you can rent your own place again soon. But this is a lot going on. It's not the time to pursue uh this thing over on the side. I agree.

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Don is up in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Don, how can we help today?

>> Hello. So, I'm looking for a little bit of advice on how I should um approach

some debt that I have outstanding.

>> So, just for background, I'm recently divorced um July of last year and I had

to refinance my house um as a result of the divorce. So, not talking about the house right now. The only debt that I have is uh 18K for a car. So, I'm trying

to determine do I get a second job? Am I

being too uh conservative fiscally that I could probably pay more of it off now?

>> That leads me to believe that you are.

It's the very question that you asked there leads me to believe you are. So what what evidence do you think that you have that says, hey, I could put a little bit more towards this?

>> Well, just in my checking account, I maintain about 7 to 9,000 month over

month after, you know, I pay my bills and everything. So, I have that and then I have in my emergency fund about 31K.

>> Whoa. >> So, I have some cushion.

>> I mean, you could pay off the car today.

>> Yeah. >> If you were doing the baby steps, we'd say start with a,000 bucks in the starter emergency fund, pay off all debt. You have enough to do that, then begin 3 to 6 months of expenses. So, you're doing the baby steps out of order. But the good news is you could be debtree today and this could you could burn less brain calories on this whole thing.

So I I guess I'm just it's just me now.

So I guess if something happened with my job, I don't anticipate that, but if something happened with my job than I'd be unemployed and then that cushion would go away. >> Well, something happened with your job. You couldn't afford the car, it's getting repoed. And so you've got risk on either side. You've got more risk owing other people money and not owning this asset right now. And you're still going to have $13,000 even if you pay off the car today. And then you'll begin rebuilding that. What's your car payment?

um 415 a month. >> So you add that now you have that extra margin to add to your emergency savings goal. That's an extra five grand a year right there. And how much can you throw at the at your savings right now if you freed up that 415?

>> How much could I if I freed it up? So So I come away after I pay all my bills every month. I do have about 1,500 over left over. Right. >> Right. So what we're saying is is if there's no car pay now it's $1,900. Oh,

>> okay. >> So, that's that's another 23 grand. If you did that for 12 months, you just put that 1,900 away, you'd have about 23 grand on top of the 13.

>> So, you're going to be fine.

>> Okay. >> And then you can start investing.

>> So, then that's what I was going to ask you. That was the second piece. So, hold off on the invest. I have a little bit of investment now, but hold off. I'm thinking about some EFTs that my friend told me about and I do need to research.

So, >> you mean ETS?

EFTs. I'm sorry. Electronically uh funed trade. Yes, EFTs. Sorry about that.

>> ETF. >> Um I keep saying it wrong.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's all right. We know. >> But similar thing. Are you do you have a retirement account through your employer right now? >> I do have a um one through my current employer and I do have some ones uh some additional ones from a prior employer.

>> Okay. I would get uh the part of your homework is rolling over the prior employer money. I would just do a direct roll over to an IRA. that'll give you the most control and flexibility.

>> It is an IRA. I should have said that.

Yes, it's already in the IRA.

>> Okay. >> It rolled it rolled over. It's not in It's separate from my current employer, but it is an IRA. >> Okay. So, you have that. So, I would just not contribute any more until you're out of debt with that 3 to six months of expenses.

>> So, if your expenses are five grand a month to cover all your your basic bills, then I would suggest having 25K 30k in there.

>> Okay. Okay. And then one other >> Okay. And then one other question. So, um, for my 401k, I'm currently doing 6%,

my employer matches, um, 4% up up to,

um, 100K, and then after that, it's I

think I can't remember what it is. It's 50% after that. Okay. >> Should I not increase my 6% while I'm

trying to pay off do all these? You just told me you would be willing to pause all investing until you you get into a better spot financially. And it won't be long, but I would pause that 6% cuz how much do you make a year?

>> About 157, >> including my bonus. >> So 157 6% is $9,400 extra you could be

throwing your emergency fund, which means it's going to get done faster. So here's the honest truth. You could be done with this whole thing 5 6 months from now. You could be debt free completely if you pay off the car today, then restock the emergency fund over the next five months and you'll be back to investing not 6% but 15%. You're almost

going to triple your investing rate.

>> Do you see that?

>> I I see some of what you're saying. So you're saying what I what I'll lose from my employer not matching because if I stop doing my piece, they don't match anything. So you said what I'll lose on that is not significant enough to make me go the other route. >> Exactly.

And the other thing it does, it lights a fire under you because you love that match. You want to get back to that match, which means you're working even harder to get that emergency fund back stocked up. That's what I found. That's human nature.

You're working really hard to restock your emergency fund on, not working really crazy to pay off a car. That is a depreciating asset.

>> Right. I'm That makes total sense how you just said it. I'm working I work hard to build savings, not >> Yes. pay for something that goes down in value. >> That's right. >> You're building for the future instead of paying for the past. Do it this way.

>> And yes, and by the way, we love that you called, Don, because it is a very real psychological hurdle to to cut a

big check from an emergency fund.

Totally get it. However, the reason I told you about how you're working hard to replenish your savings so that you

can invest and start be on your path to becoming a millionaire, which I want George to paint a picture for that in just a moment. But understand that the minute that you uh pay the car off, which is a depreciating asset, you also are now freeing up $400 plus dollars a month right back into your pocket. So, I

just want you to see that full picture so you can overcome that psychology of

I don't like writing a big check out of my emergency fund. That's why I asked you, do you see it?

>> I I do. I I just got to get over because it's just me now, you know.

>> Totally get it. >> I'm divorced. So, I I do get what you're saying, though. >> Yeah. Well, because if you see it, you believe it.

>> And what the other thing I've been thinking about is getting the part-time job. >> Sure. my full-time job and get a part-time job to help with this. Do you think that makes sense as well? >> Yes. And I'll tell you why. I don't know what George thinks, but I say yes because it's going to further help you with the psychology that I just outlined. Like, think about how you think about how much more secure you're going to feel because you're bringing in that extra money.

>> Got it. >> And here's the truth. You don't need it financially. You're going to get through this pretty fast. But I do think it's going to light a fire under you after you just went through one of the hardest things a human could experience. Yeah.

>> And I think action always helps uh with healing versus just sitting around >> binging Netflix. >> Now, real quick, George, paint a picture for her when she gets to baby step four.

>> Oh, let's do it. >> Let's do the investment calculator. >> What's your total uh retirement investments right now?

>> About 380K.

>> I like it. >> You got to like How old are you?

>> I am 56.

>> 56. Now, we're going to ride this out.

you make 157. That's before the bonus.

But if you do 15%, you're going to be maxing out a 401k. That's 235 right there. >> Do you understand that? Okay. >> So that's let's say two grand a month.

>> You're going to have uh quite the nest egg. Let's say you do this till 67.

>> Oh boy. Let me see it. Let me see it before you tell her. >> Okay. >> Oh. Oh boy. Don, are you ready for this?

George, tee it up. >> I am. >> 1.6 million

>> at 60. >> I don't know how you did the math. That's You can jump on ramseyolutions.com. use our free investing calculator. You're 56 current age. I did 67 retirement age.

Currently, you have 380 grand. If you contribute 2 grand a month, and we assume a 10% rate of return, that's what we've seen overall in the US stock market. You're going to have 1.6 million. Only 264,000 of that is the money you put in. Almost a million is just compound growth doing the heavy lifting for you. Go do it yourself, Don.

So, you can see he's not making magic over here. This is real numbers.

>> I like it. >> Pumped for you, Don. You got a great income. Let's use it to build some wealth. >> Go Dawn. Go.

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Hey folks, we would love for you to share the show if uh this show is helping you, entertaining you in any form or fashion. Share, like, follow,

subscribe, the whole nine yards. Uh >> smash all the buttons you see.

>> Oh, that's what the YouTubers say. Smash the like button. >> Is this thing Is this a thing?

>> 100%. You know, it cracks me up how often between you and Jade I hear something new and I've never heard before. >> I give Ken an education every day against his will. >> Yeah. Well, no, I actually appreciate it. I'm not But I will say I'm not comfortable ever saying the word smash

in a video. I feel like I'm too old for that. And if you hear me do it, I I want you to just hit me right in the >> Your teenage daughter would not like it.

She would hate it. She would call it cringe. >> She would say, "Dad, that's so cringe." >> There we go.

>> Yeah. There's certain words that I don't think I should say. They're just too young for me, you know. And that's >> Can I just say just because you don't like something, it's not your preference, doesn't make it cringe.

>> Can we just drop that? >> Yeah. It's very bothersome. >> Thank you very much. What is cringe to you, someone else likes, you know, kind of like my uh cardigan sweaters. >> That is cringe.

>> Now I'm You're aging into it very nicely. >> It's perfect. >> Aging very well. >> All right, we digress. Scott is up in North Carolina. Scott, how can we help today?

>> Hey, good afternoon, guys. So, um, I overall had a question based on my current financial situation and thinking ahead now that I'm getting a little older, um, as to whether or not to pull some money out and renovate a separate building on my residential property to rent out as like a one-bedroom, one bath studio kind of apartment. >> Nice. How much money would it cost to renovate this?

Um, currently I'm thinking it's probably around like 40k to renovate it.

>> And what will it turn into? What will that give you? 40 grand for how many square feet? Uh, and then also what do you think you would be able to make on rental?

>> So be around um 650 700 ft². And the

realtors that I've spoke with based on the location, etc. estimated around $1,000 a month. But I was kind of thinking 800 as conservative number.

>> Okay. And what would it add to the overall property value, you know, for resale?

>> Um, now that aspect, honestly, I haven't really discussed with them that much, so I'm honestly not sure. >> You planning to be there forever?

>> Um, currently, yes. I mean, that's something that led me to the question because they just did a a reevaluation of property taxes here and then like shot up. Um, >> but see that that's why I even though you're you're planning to stay there forever, if I'm going to sink 40 grand into something, George, on my property, I'm automatically going to go, how much value did this add to the entire thing if I were to sell? So, right now, you got your home, x amount of bedrooms, bath, acorage, whatever.

there. So, that would be one thing, but if you're staying there forever, that's fine. But I still think it's worth looking into. And then the other thing is is is how what do you think? What gives you a lot of confidence or how much confidence do you have that you would be able to rent this out on a regular basis?

>> I'm pretty confident. I mean, the area I live in, it's very close to um a lot of universities, um hospitals, things of that sort. Um so I I wouldn't think that I would have any kind of problem finding a long-term renter for >> So it's a onebedroom and you're putting it out there. So like people coming in for football games or tourism or something like that. You're that's that's what you think this is.

>> Um but potentially I mean I was thinking more of like a you know um like just to establish a long-term renter specifically. >> Oh a long-term renter. All right. All right. I asked all the questions. Uh George is is very particular on these things. >> Well, I'm just you trying to backtrack and go why are we doing all this? Is it just to cover an increase in property taxes?

um I mean property taxes I mean that and

the thing is currently I've been with my employer the majority of my adult life but there's a lot of change going on and currently I don't necessarily feel I guess secure in my position um and in the area I'm not sure that I'd be able to find a job equivalent making to what I make now so just think once again >> what do you make now >> um with not taking into account annual bonuses around 110 >> I just don't think a thousand bucks a month solves the problem you're trying to solve.

>> So, aside from my retirement account, um I did start um you know, obviously I've tried to save some. I've not been the best at it, but I've tried to save and I did start investing in the stock market during co and the returns on that have been um pretty positive. So, I think between my brokerage account and personal savings, I have around 80 grand saved. >> Okay. That's actually liquid. You're not going into retirement for any of this money, >> correct?

man. I mean, it's a gamble. It's going to take you probably five years to just break even on this. >> And that's why I'm out. >> And you also said if you didn't have this job, you'd likely have to move to make something similar, which tells me you might need to sell this house uh

before, you know, you even break even on it. So, I mean, 80K, you you're fine to

cover the property taxes. I just think you're trying to do multiple things at once and go, "Well, property taxes are going up. Might as well get a rental." uh versus just going, "Hey, what can I do in my budget to just add a syncing fund and cover this added expense? My payment just went up every month. I can handle it." Because being a landlord on your own property has its own problems.

There's risks. There's vacancy. There's maintenance. There's repairs. There's the actual renovation, which is probably going to cost you more than you think it will because that's usually how it goes.

>> I actually think you're afraid. I think what's driving this is the job situation. That's what I heard. I heard that you're a guy who's I'm not so sure that you're going to have your job for very long. That's what I heard.

>> Honestly, I think that's the main part of it because I mean, ideally, I wouldn't necessarily want to handle a long-term rental and have that add stress, >> right? I think you just answered the question. Well, the reason I Okay, so I'm glad you you answered that because here's the thing. >> That's why I drove I drove in on that point. >> So fear is driving this possibility. And

so if we play this out, the very thing you're afraid of happening, this actually would be one of the worst things you could do if the fear came true. In other words, 40 grand of cash,

and to George's point, there's no guarantee that's going to be 40. So you you need that 40k. I'd want that 40k in

liquid. I'd want it there so that I had a cushion if I needed a cushion if I

lose my job. So, the very thing you're trying to solve with this idea, uh, I

don't think this is anywhere near the best idea. I think the best idea is to hold the cash and stack the cash.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Leaving it invested and then you getting a part-time job will have better ROI in the meantime. So, if you're really angling to make a little more money right now and you want to make 750 a month, you can go do that using the skills that you have today. >> That's a great point. Go make a,000 bucks doing something else.

>> Gotcha. Makes sense. I mean, I do have like I guess one follow-up question around that scenario. And I think I already know the answer.

I mean, just thinking logically through this, but wanted to kind of pose it to you as well. I mean, because I was thinking like worst case scenario, if I were to lose my job, cuz I I don't necessarily want to leave this area, this area I grew up in or whatnot. Um, if I were unable to find an an equivalent job making what I make, I mean, I considered potentially cashing out my 41k cuz my 41k >> horrible idea. You're going to be calling us at 60 going, "Hey, man.

I'm broke. I don't have anything in retirement and my body gave out. I can't work anymore. I don't have anything in retirement.

>> Yeah. >> Do not cash it out.

>> And that was my initial thought, but that was like a nogo in the back of my mind. So, I appreciate y'all. >> Unless Unless you're facing bankruptcy or foreclosure, you never touch your retirement accounts if you're not 59 and a half yet. >> Yeah. Scott, I want to if I can Can I encourage your heart on something and I I'm not saying this critically, but here's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing a guy who is looking at a a real

possibility of something bad happening and you've gotten protective instead of proactive. I think everything I'm hearing is a protective solution instead

of a proactive solution. That's what I hear. And I think that you need to happen to this possibility, not try to go, how do I protect myself from this bad thing happening? I consider a 401k thing, which is a horrible decision. I'm considering spending money on this rent thing. as opposed to going if this happens I I I'm going to do this this and this and I'm going to spend my time connecting with people and I'm going to give you a copy of my book the proximity principle just as as some form of hey

I'm going to build my network starting today so that if this happens um I can

be proactive and not protective. I I just sense that over you and that by the way we all fall into that with fear. But I think the best way to handle something that could be a negative that could be coming is to think proactively on how to solve it not protectively. George a good word. Nothing to add. No notes. No notes.

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Our

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scripture of the day comes from Psalm 86:1. Teach me your way, Lord, that I may rely on your faithfulness. Give me an undivided heart that I may fear your name. And our quote of the day from Mark Twain. Don't let schooling interfere with your education. I know Ken loves that one. I do love a good Mark Twain.

By the way, I'm reading the biography on Mark Twain right now by Ron Chernow.

How's that? >> It's a tough read. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> I thought he'd be a fascinating guy.

>> He is. Turnout's a little heavy.

>> Oh, >> I just I don't want to endorse the book because And I got Dave reading it and Dave and I were talking the other day on the show. He's like, "Man, that's pretty heavy." I It's It's just It's not an easy read >> in light of who Twain was. You would think it'd be a more brevity, a >> little bit little bit lighter fair. It's a very good point. Very good point.

Carol is joining us in Charlottesville, Virginia. Carol, how can we help today?

>> Hi there. So, I have an anecdote for you. I was at the credit union the other week and I was at the teller window and this gentleman walks up to the next teller window and the teller says, "How are you today?" And he goes, "Better than I deserved." And I was like, "Dave

Ramsey in Charlottesville." >> The secret signal. It's how you know they're a real one. Yeah. Did you Did you like give the guy a knowing look and say, "I know you." >> Yeah, I did. I said I said, "I know where that comes from." And he chuckled as he was depositing his money.

>> Love it. Um, >> by the way, can I just can I just say, Carol, I love that you use the word chuckle. It's one of my favorite words.

I don't think we use it enough. So, thank you.

>> You're welcome. Okay, so I have three

properties. My primary home, my and two rentals, the duplex, and primary home is

paid off. But how much based on how much

would you put aside for you know like

the roof may be replaced one day or the HVAC is going to go out. Is there a percentage of the value of the property I should have in a syncing fund or

>> is there is there a formula >> for that? >> Good question. George, what do you think? >> Uh I don't think there's like an industry standard formula, but I think you know kind of going hey 10% of rent if I can afford to put that aside. So, if you're renting it for 1,200 bucks, can you put away 120 bucks a month?

>> And if you feel like based on the It also depends on what's going on with the house. Is it a 20-y old roof? Well, you're probably going to need a roof fairly soon. And so, I would um you know, you could do an inspection on it and kind of see where the problem areas might be cuz they'll tell you, hey, the HVAC is okay, but you're probably looking at 5 years you're going to need to replace this thing.

>> If it's a brand new property, it might mean a lot less issues. So, it really depends on the current state of the properties.

>> Exactly. >> Did you have a number in mind?

>> Um, I, you know, I've read have Googled this and, you know, it says anywhere from 5 to 10% of the property value of

the >> That feels real high. That seems like a lot. What would that be for you?

>> So, each each of these duplexes, one well, one of them just got renovated completely. Um, and that that set me

back about 42. But that was everything.

New flooring, siding, windows, had to replace some floor. >> Yeah. See, none of that's going to just spring up on you. And that's the stuff you want to get ahead of the stuff you know is coming. And then also have some for the emergency stuff that you can't foresee coming. >> Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. >> So, the one I've heard is 1% of the property value. So, 10%. Now, 1% a year.

>> Yeah. 1% per year.

>> Yeah. So eventually you might have 10% of the value.

>> One of them is like 300k. The other one is probably 250 because it does need work. But this one's been totally redone. 300. So 1% is what?

>> Well, on the be 2500,000

2500 or Okay.

>> Yeah. I would have an ultimate goal of saying, "Hey, can we have 30k each in an account eventually?" >> Yeah. >> But if you can't do that tomorrow, that's okay. Um, but if you know one of them needs more work sooner, I would stack that one up faster. And you can always move the piles of money around. It doesn't have to be, you know, 30k here, 30k there. You can move it around eventually if something comes up.

>> Yeah. I had one account that services both houses.

>> Are they paid off? You have a mortgage on both the rentals right now?

>> Well, yeah. Well, um, the one that I'm in was paid off and I my primary

residence had a house fire. Oh my goodness. Bless your house. >> So, that was completely gutted. That house is paid off, but I had to gut that house and I've had to cash flow some of

the stuff that insurance wouldn't pay for. So, to do that, I took a mortgage out on the one rental property to help until I can get settled. >> Oh, it was paid off, but you had you went backwards to fund it.

>> Taking the equity. >> Yes. But my primary is turn So, I had this grand plan. I just turned 59 last week. everything was going to be paid off by the time I turned 60. All of my mortgages and that didn't happen. But still trying to make that happen. What are they worth? The insurance company >> and what could you what's left on the mortgages?

>> Yeah, my So, uh 150 is owed on this one

that's worth 300 and I owe 27 on the one

next door that's worth 250. And then my primary home, the value because it's been totally redone. Everything's been redone. That's probably going to be a half million at least.

And that's paid off. >> That's great. >> I'd work on knocking out that 27K rental mortgage and then move on to the 150 one. And worst case, if you don't like one of them, just sell it and pay off the other one and be done.

>> Yeah, that that I've been thinking about that, too.

>> Exactly. No, and it's been a Well, I've been living in the one rental while the my primary home is been being renovated.

Yeah. >> So, that that was good. I didn't have to pay rent somewhere else. I'm just living here for free. >> What are you clearing on What are you clearing on both of the uh condos?

Um, on this one I'm clearing Well, it

was paid off. So, probably $1,100

between the two. So, like 500 each.

>> See, that's the point that George is making. >> It's just >> for 13 grand a year. >> That's a lot. >> Without even the risk and, you know, vacancy, repairs, maintenance.

>> I'm going if you sold one of them and put the excess in an investment account, you could probably make 13 grand.

>> Yeah. >> P truly passively with no headache.

>> I've got Yeah. Well, I've got 1.5 in my

investment account. So, >> good for you. I would I would get rid of one of these. Uh I I I would sell the

the the one with more debt on it and then pay off the other one and you can hold on to that for a while if you want to. And that's that's a whole lot less.

>> The thing with real estate is you need a lot of it in order to actually replace your income. >> So, to make 500 bucks a month, maybe I

don't know if it's if it's worth it for you. If you're kind of done with it, you're dealing with a lot of issues, the house needs a lot of repairs, there's nothing wrong with throwing in the towel and going, you know what, I tried it. It was fun for a season. I'm turning 60. I just want less hassle factor.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, that crossed my mind, too. And then, you know, the other thing is I went back through my I was I'm not a baby step Ramsay person, but I've always lived below my means because both of my parents were depression era kids, right?

So, we always live below our means. you know, we had everything we needed. My father always said, "If we don't have a cash, then we're not getting it." I mean, that was the role. So, that's how I've been raised. And >> that'll get you far in curiosity.

>> I went back and looked at my social security statement, you know, for all the years I've been working since what, 1984 or whatever, >> the average the average of my salary was $48,900.

>> Wow. >> And I'm sitting on $2.5 million at the moment. So, I'm pretty pretty good. Way to go. >> No, you're not pretty good. You're pretty freaking awesome is what you are.

That's That's just phenomenal. That's another reason at 59 I would unload one

of these things and not have the debt on it. >> You got so much money in your retirement. That's >> George, what is she going to >> It's not going to change your net worth cuz that 1.5 million, you know, by the time you're 66 will be three if you don't do anything. >> If you don't do anything, >> right? >> I would enjoy my life a little bit more.

That's just too much of a headache for someone who's worth what you're worth.

That's my opinion. Like none of this is you're not in trouble. >> But this is just if I look at how much money you're actually making on this for the >> If it was paid off and it was a cash cow and it was very little effort and a little hassle factor, I'd say just keep it. You're enjoying it.

But it feels like the joy is gone >> and you don't need >> Well, it it really I mean I have great tenants. Um the tenant that I've had, she's been over here for 15 years. She she is not a hassle.

that was in this house wasn't a hassle either until she her circumstances changed. But anyway, you know, and I >> Yeah, well, the people may not be a hassle. Just the maintenance and upkeep.

>> Yeah, we're just saying need any of this. So, you're doing great. Uh, fantastic. Fantastic scenario. Thanks for calling us. You're doing glad to end on a high note. >> Oh, I love that. And hey to the rest of you, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 137. Small Financial Wins Lead To Big Financial Impact | March 27, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:39:15 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show. And I

am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with Dr. John Delony, and it's open lines. So, give us a call at 888-825-5225.

We're talking about your life and your money. Uh first up is Sue in Houston, Texas. Hi

Sue, welcome to the show.

Hello. Hi, how can we help today?

I was trying to determine um if my

husband is being financially abusive.

Okay. So, what's going on?

Um he has two separate bank accounts on

top of a joint bank account that we have. Only a portion of his check goes into the joint bank account. All of my money goes into the joint bank account.

Um he is constantly upset, making accusations that I'm spending thousands more than we should be spending. Um and but he doesn't really know what our bills are um cuz I'm the one who logs in and pays the bills.

And so, he just tells me that I'm hiding things from him, and he thinks I have the separate bank accounts when I do not. And I just

>> Very. Well, often the the complaint that you're making about your spouse is the thing that you're doing.

So, spouses that are like, "Are you cheating on me? I know you're cheating on me." often have something going on on the side.

Right? So, his paranoia about, "What are you doing with our money?" or "With my money." may be rooted in him doing what he's

doing with his money. I I I don't know if calling this financial abuse is instructive here. I think what's instructive here is you feel out to lunch and you're getting accused to to about things that you're not doing and you have a partner who's totally disengaged from you and the household finances and yet swoops in and tries to

quarterback everything and I would deal with that directly or the ramifications of he won't deal with it directly, right? Mhm. Yeah, what does he say when you ask are you a Do you have access to his other two accounts? Are you able to just see it you know, you may not have a card, but can you log in and see what he's doing?

No, I do I do not have any access. I do not know what money goes in to the accounts. I know for a fact a portion of his check goes directly into one other account. >> Why is he have it What What does he say he sets it up that way?

He's never mentioned um other than hinting that he just wants to make sure that he can take care of himself if anything were to happen. Um one time he has messaged me and blatantly said that

he transfers money out of the account to

his other account to make sure that if he ever needed to get an attorney, he would be taken care of.

Or divorce. Out of the blue, he like text you that or you guys were in a fight? I don't under- I just don't understand where he's coming from. Has he always been like this?

Yes. Um he goes like through this regularly. Um probably

once every other month. Um he has questions about it. It usually doesn't last very long, but this time we're going into the third week of continuing

to not see eye to eye with the finances. Um

but it's hard to see eye to eye when I can't see part of the finances and what

he's spending money on. I don't care that he has separate bank accounts. I don't care that he spends money out of those accounts. I don't even care what he spends the money on because we are able to take care of things still.

>> Well, you you should care. And I I make

you care, so like and I even saying should isn't isn't a nice thing to say. Um What I would tell Give me this answer. Where else are y'all not together?

Um Where else does he do whatever he just good and gets good and ready to do leaving you to take care of the kids, the house, the whatever?

Yeah, I we don't see eye to eye on almost everything, really. Um So it I'm

wondering if the money is a proxy war here to avoid dealing with the reality that y'all Y'all aren't even good co-managers of your house. You're the manager of the house. You just have an overbearing CEO that swoops in every once in a while and yells about stuff and threatens and takes some of the money out of the account and then leaves again.

And so this won't be solved by {quote} getting on the same page with your money. Y'all need to go see a marriage therapist like ASAP cuz I cuz

I think your the marriage y'all had is over and y'all need to decide whether y'all want to build a new one together. And I can almost guarantee you because of the way he's talking and treating you and your household finances, he is he is either planning an out or he is dealing with some psychiatric issues that make him feel like there's an out happening.

And um but y'all need to get down to the reality here. The money is a symptom of a really a much bigger issue in your marriage. And you And you know that, right? I'm not telling you something you don't know. You feel that every day, right?

Correct, yes. I I pretty much knew the answer to my question already, but it was more of one of those confirmation hearing it from someone else. >> Yeah. Um Sue, how long have you been And it Sorry, keep going.

Um I just And I tell him that like let's go to a counselor, let's get the root of the problem because that's not his only argument. There are many many many other >> arguments that he just bounces between when he gets in this mindset.

>> uh >> uh

Do And you you work outside the home, too? I own a cleaning business, yeah. >> Okay. Do you have enough money in your account to pay the bills for your home?

If he did not contribute, I would not have enough to pay by myself because I have employees and cost expenses that I have to take care of on top of taxes.

But I mean, that that should not be in your household account. That should be in a business account.

Um in the state of Texas, it's not required to have separation >> Here's it's not it's not about it being required. It's just not wise cuz it mixes everything. Cuz suddenly you need groceries and you're trying to pay somebody else's like the hours they put in last week.

You get what I'm saying? Mhm. Just from a clean accounting perspective, having it separate's important when you're running a small business. So, I would do that.

And then I would have your own account at this point. >> Yeah, you're getting to a place where you have your own account. But But Rachel, my concern is if she started had her own account to make sure the lights stayed on and the and the mortgage stayed paid, he's going to pull out his what he puts in there every month and you're going to you can't you can't support yourself on that. Correct.

We've created a lifestyle that requires both of our pay. Okay. Well, then he gets screwed in the process, too, cuz his lights are going to be cut off in the home that he lives in.

His secret accounts, all of that gets laid bare in a divorce hearing.

Mhm. Right? It's not like he's got this secret pot that he gets to play with when when the when when one of y'all files, all of that gets put into a big pot that gets divvied up. And so, um I don't know what he thinks he's preparing for, but it's not reality. Uh how long have you guys been married, Sue? Um we have been together for 19 years

with a 4-year separation because of mental illnesses on his part. And married for nine of those years. Okay.

What what is his diagnosis?

Um actual diagnosis is bipolar. There

have been discussions of schizophrenia and paranoia. >> Okay. Yeah. Um but no medication. He

He's not He's not He's not managing it.

Correct. >> Okay. Well, then that makes sense like in my head and my That's That's a safety issue. >> Yeah, that's the piece of the puzzle that Yeah. makes all this make sense.

Yeah. Like it's him. I mean, yeah, he's not he's not okay. He's not healthy.

>> Yeah, and even trying to discuss it with him, whether right or wrong on my part, it there's no getting through. No, it well and and I don't use this word lightly, but he's he's not well. He's sick.

And he's he's untreated. His illness is untreated, but um he's not well. And so you continuing to try to bang your head up against that that that situation is only going to give you a bruise, right?

And so we have to take care of ourselves when those around us aren't taking care of themselves.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

They're not budgeting, then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal.

Winning with money is about doing the boring stuff consistently. And that includes banking someplace that helps you stop guessing with your money, like Fairwinds Credit Union. They're not going to fix your habits, that part's on you, but they do support people who are ready to take control of their money. At Fairwinds, you get a high yield savings account with a great rate to help grow your emergency fund, a checking account that won't nickel and dime you, and up to 10 free savings accounts so you can organize your money on purpose.

in the best way. So, if you're ready for a bank that helps you be intentional, open your Smart Bundle today at fairwinds.org/ramsey and get the Ramsey Be Weird debit card to go along with it. That's fairwinds.org/ramsey insured by the NCUA.

Up next in New York City, we have Valerie on the line. Hi Valerie.

Hi, how are you? >> Hi, we're doing well. How are you?

I'm okay. Um yeah, I just wanted to get on here. I've seen a few of your videos and I love the advice you give to people.

And um I'm going to start a licensed practical nurse nursing program in August and I

was going to pay my tuition out of pocket. It's all It's $8,000.

Unfortunately, uh my fiance lost his job. So, I've been

whittling away at my savings.

So, it does no longer seems like an option. Either way, so I was trying to find

a student loan. And I didn't think it would be so difficult, but I guess because it's not a college and it is a similar nursing program. Mhm. They don't

They won't loan money to a school that they're not associated with. Like any school loan company.

And I really don't know where to go from here. I've never taken out a loan for anything. Yeah, please don't start. Valerie, please don't start, okay? Yeah, we're probably not going to We're not well, we're not probably we're not the ones that are going to direct you on how to get a loan. We're the ones to help you get out of debt, not get you in debt. So, uh did you say it was $8,000 for the program?

Correct. >> Okay. Valerie, is this an unaccredited program?

You know, that's the thing, right? It's a It's a Passaic County Technical Institute, right? It's a vocational high school and they have an a furthering adult learning program. Okay. So, that you can get your LPN license. It's a one-year program.

So, I'm really not sure how it's labeled, but when I go and ask uh

loaning companies like Sallie Mae or something, they try to look for it and they say, "Oh, we're not associated with this school, so we don't do loans for that." Yeah. >> it's the same thing. You just want to make sure that the degree is is usable.

Yeah, I I I would before I gave this college a penny I or this program a penny >> Oh, well, this program I have cousins I have gotten in this program. They paid it out of pocket.

Um and they're working and they're making great money, you know? >> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, Valerie, what you got to do, girl? What you got to do? You got to You got to come up with eight grand in five months. So, you need 1,500

to $2,000 a month. What can you do as a side hustle to get that? >> Well, I could tell you can stop paying off your paying for your fiance.

Your fiance needs to go start bagging groceries and like throwing trash and

driving Uber, whatever Oh, yeah, cuz you're dwindling your savings for him. That's right. >> Whatever they got to do.

Well, yeah, we've we've lived together for a long time, you know? And you know, it's just paying the rent. You know, you before we were splitting it splitting the bills and now I'm covering the whole thing while we're looking well, while he's looking for another job. >> let me let me In the meantime, he's been selling his things, but you know Yeah, let me say it like this.

Your choice to cover for his

expenses is a choice to delay going to nursing school. It's just that simple cuz you don't have the money.

And a bank makes money by loaning you money.

And the banks have looked at you and said, for whatever reason, we don't feel comfortable giving you this money.

Either for because your loan risk doesn't sound like you are or we don't think that the product that you're want to want to buy with this borrowed money, which in your case is a degree, we don't feel safe giving you that money. And so you don't have it. And so it's it it's I I hate it's it's a math problem. Oh, you for sure can get it.

>> you can get it, Valerie. You have five You have eight You have five months.

And it's a year-long program. I wonder if you call the admissions office and just say, "Hey, can I can I pay the first semester up front and then pay the second half You know what I mean? Where you can kind of delay a payment or two?

Um but we we talk to people all the time, Valerie, and they're and they're hustling. They're doing dog walking,

they're cleaning houses, they're driving Uber Eats, and they're making thousand to two thousand dollars on side hustles.

So that's what I would be doing, Valerie, every night after I leave my full-time job. Cuz what what what are you making in your job right now? How much you bring home a month?

Uh I make $24 an hour, which is about like after taxes like $750 a week.

Okay. Well, you got to figure out, number one, how you're going to pay rent, but number two, how what you're going to do and the boundaries you're going to make with the boyfriends of that you're not going to be supporting him this whole time because you guys You aren't You aren't married. I understand you guys are in a living situation. You have to pay the rent. But girl, I would figure out, yeah, how how am I going to make this cash? And I would be working nights and weekends to figure it out.

Please don't take a loan out though, please. Let's go to Dan in Charlotte. Hi Dan.

Hi there. How are you guys doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Great. Uh I've got a quick question for you guys. So I'm 24 making around

$80,000 a year thinking about buying a $7,000 toy. Uh so right now I drive a an

older car. It's an old Corolla with a little bit over 100,000 miles on it.

>> Oh yeah, just getting started. Just getting started, Dan.

That's right. That's right. Uh but thinking about adding a second one to the fleet. Um and this would funny enough be a toy that is more expensive than than my current car, but it would cost me about $7,000.

Uh and I'm wondering A if that's a wise decision to spend that much money on a toy at this phase of life. Um and B just kind of like the practicality of owning two cars at 24. And

>> A Miata. Mazda Miata.

That's not a toy, Dan. That's a statement.

THAT'S AN IDENTITY, BROTHER. >> I AGREE, JOHN. I agree. You're taking on That's an identity. >> on an identity. Okay. Oh man. Dan, do

you have any debt? Do you have consumer debt? No, ma'am. No. Do you have savings?

Yeah, I've got uh about 22,000 saved in

a brokerage just in money market mutual funds. >> Oh, good for you. Would you take the 7,000 I would take the 7,000 Take the 7,000 out of that to buy it?

Um and your Corolla, how much is it worth? A million dollars cuz it will never stop running, ever. That's exactly it.

Honestly, you know, I I have some co-workers who say I should I should drive it into the ground, but I think I'd be 44 if I did that.

>> just keep Bro, I've been down that road.

I tried to outlast a Corolla and I gave up cuz >> It will outlast you. >> apocalypse vehicle. It will never stop running. >> outlast >> So, it's what probably if you sold it though, what 5 5,000 7,000? Yeah.

>> four. Yes. Okay, so the things I'm looking for the big check marks of can you just go spend money? Number one, do you have it? Number two, financially are you in a place that that money would be better spent in the present meaning like getting you ahead financially which would be to pay off debt or have an emergency fund. You have those, so check check. And then anything with motors and wheels, we don't want the value of those

to be more than half of your annual income, but you're going to be way under that making 80. Uh so

Yeah, Dan. I think the new identity is Dan in a Miata. >> Oh, Dan in a Miata. Is that the little two-seater convertible? Yes. That's right. Yeah, a little tiny car. >> The noise it makes is in in Yeah. Hey, um Yeah, so we've got we've got work day Dan and then we go weekend Dan.

Um the thing you have to factor in, brother is the weekend car. is uh you have to factor in you'll have two registrations, two tanks of gas, two um

like you'll have to insure this car too.

So, it's not just a matter of a 7,000 and I would get a a dollar amount on what is your monthly expenses. I- I- Interestingly enough, I kept our Corolla. Like my wife bought a Corolla, that was the first car to college. We had it for years and I just kept it in the driveway as a third car for us.

And it was when I did the math on it was costing me about 75 bucks a month just to sit there. And that's when I sold it. >> Mhm. Because between like if I took the registration and the insurance for the year and all that and I divided it by 12, I got about 75 bucks a month and that was a long time ago.

the privilege of keeping the the your identity car parked in the driveway, right? So, if that's worth it to you, cool, but you can afford it. Yeah.

Uh Dan, what are you doing on uh uh April 7th?

Do you know? April 7th? Uh

I don't think I have anything planned. >> Well, maybe you can come to the Ramsey Show Live. Uh Ken Coleman, George Kamel, and I are going to be in Charlotte then. So, if you hold on the line, Christian's going to pick up, we're going to give you two tickets. You can Yeah.

>> come hang out with us in the Miata. And if you come and you bring that Miata, wave your hand in the audience cuz it's a it's a it's a smaller audience on these on these uh shows. >> your other the person who takes the other ticket's going to have to hold their breath in that tiny little Oh, I know. We'll come out and get a picture with it. So, yeah, hopefully, Dan, you can join us uh yeah, in Charlotte for the Ramsey Show Live coming up.

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So, we just mentioned that we are heading to Charlotte for the Ramsey Show Live. It is going on tour, the show is.

And we're also going to be in Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim. So, if you have not come, we went to Chicago back in the

fall and Orlando and did some live

tapings of >> So fun, dude. Unhinged.

>> I know, how was it for you? Because we weren't at the same city. >> were in the raddest place. It was like an old punk rock club. It When I walked to the door, I just started smiling. I was like, this feels like home for me.

But, uh yeah, dude, they it was awesome and we had a a rad debt-free scream. We

had one woman who came up and was like, "I'm getting laid off tomorrow. What do I do?" It was a real heavy emotional moment. Everyone was open, honest. It was It was just a a great time to see fans live and they got to ask questions of us personally. So, it was a blast.

>> Yeah, so we we take the questions that we take on this show, but it's going to be live in a room and it's and they're smaller venues, which is fun. So, we're able to hang out with the audience some, you know, we I don't know, it's just a really enjoyable experience doing the show live with people, but also them participating in it. There was a couple in when we were in Chicago. Cute young couple and they had this like big debate because she spends so much on Amazon and he but they're like debt-free and all of a sudden there was like a big like audience fight.

>> is with you, yes. >> like back and forth and of course George and I kind of disagree cuz George is more on his side of like saving and I'm like, "Girl, you go spend cuz you guys have worked hard and you can you can." >> We had somebody in Orlando that would answer before we did and they were like, "No!" And like they I mean they they didn't drink the Ramsey Kool-Aid. They somehow got the Ramsey cocaine and they were snorting it off the counter. And uh we were disagreeing with it.

We were like, "Hey, we're we're up here." It was It was awesome.

>> fun. So, if you want some tickets, go to ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching YouTube. Again, Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim. We're heading to you in just a couple of weeks. So, we'll be We'll be on the road soon. >> So fun. All right, let's go to Rapid City and Mike is on the line. Hi, Mike.

Rachel, John, it's so awesome to be talking to you guys. I uh feel like I'm

in such good hands right now. I can't even tell you. Uh John, I have to say something. You um I thought I was the only person that still said rad. No way, dude.

No way. Lol, people.

>> That's rad. Mike Mike Mike Mike, dude, I'm I'm in. I'm in.

And Rachel, I I was watching your dad when you were like I was listening to your dad when you were like 15 years old and to Oh my gosh. >> how far you have come >> Aw. and what you have done with your life and the books, it is just amazing

to me. And to be talking to you right now is such an honor. >> Thank you, Mike. That is so kind.

>> going to get to the point here. My life has been pretty good.

>> I just got to say, he called out what amazing things you've done with your life. And for me, I got I say rad, too.

Good, Mike.

No question. >> kicking me while I'm down, bro. anybody of rad, John. You have you have questions. You ask questions. You show such insight that it's your your instincts are supernatural, my friend.

>> You're the nicest guy ever. You're the nicest guy. Thank you, Mike. Just the encouragement we needed. How can you guys deserve it. You you're the A-team, honestly. I love you guys. And you know, when when Dave decides to quit working, which you know, that'll never happen, this this organization is in great hands with you all and I'm I'm really happy for that. >> homie. >> So kind. Okay, how can we help, Mike?

How can we help you? You've helped us.

So my my wife and I have been married about 15 years and a couple years into the marriage, I you know, I I found out that she had racked up like $9,000 in secret debt behind my back. And you

know, back in those days, we were pretty broke. I mean, we were making we had we had baby twin girls and we we were making under $40,000 a year and and I mean it almost broke our marriage early on and I I buckled down and then

and about two two years or so I got it paid off but ever since then we have had our finances separated and my goal for

my conversation with you guys today is is to is to to join our finances again

because it's the right thing to do and and the goal the goal is is to

really focus on our girls college savings fund. I've got all of the steps done except for number five and number seven. And and I really want to focus on number five right now and and that's kind of like how I want to bring her in on this.

Yeah, is she is she my can I >> worried that she's not going to want to.

Okay. So why would she not want to have you guys talked about this?

No, I'm I'm I'm scared honestly. I mean it's been it's been peace since then, right? Like Yeah, but it's been it was an arms agreement. It's not it's not real peace.

Right? It's like you'll have a treaty signed but you're all are still staring at each other from the opposite sides of the table.

Right?

You get what I'm saying?

Yeah, I mean I see that. I mean I feel that. I feel some resentment because she's you know I I feel like she's a spender and I'm a saver and Well, hold on that that's my big question is you have a lived experience where she we call it financial infidelity. She cheated on you with her money, right?

Behind your back. >> Yeah. And that was 13 years ago. And so my

question for you is is your fear

that she's going to drain the accounts

and do stuff behind your back. Is that is that a real ongoing fear or is that >> It is cuz I mean when she sees cuz she'll spend her her account down to nothing, you know, on a monthly basis and when she sees, you know, 35, 40,000 dollars in a checking account I'm afraid what she's going to do with it. >> Okay, I want that's the real issue.

The real issue is not the combining of the checking accounts which we I I wholeheartedly with all my being endorse. The real issue is you want to save for your daughter's college.

And you feel you have you have an obligation in the middle of your chest to help your daughters out and you watch your wife burn the thing down and what you're trying to do is back door that conversation with let's just join our money. And the real conversation is you have a picture about what you want your daughter's life to be when they walk out your door at 18 and your wife has a different picture and y'all got to align those.

Who? What do I say? What are the magic words?

How do I approach this? I mean I I

It's going to be very defensive.

The the the the most effective path I've seen, can I give it to you real quick?

Let's hear it. Here's what's going on.

Here's the story that I am making up about what's going on.

Here's how I feel about that story.

Here's what I would love to happen next.

And when >> very very very chill. It doesn't sound

like that would start a fight. >> No, because cuz what most people do in your situation, myself included, right?

I have to really fight this is to sit down and say, you spend all your money and I'm trying to save for the kids college. We have to do a better job of filling the blank, filling the blank, filling the blank. And when you start conversations with you don't and you never and I'm doing all of this, then what you do is you walk up and you throw a grenade at somebody and they're either going to throw a grenade right back at you or they're going to run. They're going to fight or flee.

When you come down and say, "Hey, I've made up a story about you." And the story I've made up and that's you owning what's going on inside your spirit. I've made up a story about you that you don't care about the kids going to college, that you'd rather have a bunch of shiny toys or objects or whatever she's buying. And that makes me feel alone in this marriage and that makes me feel scared to death for what our daughters are going to do.

I would love it if we could get on the same page and create a plan together so that our daughters have their college taken care of or 50% whatever you all agree on.

You know, John, as I'm talking to you about this, I'm realizing that it's really not the money because I have the money. I make I make 200 grand a year plus and I I can I can float this. I can I can do it on my own, but I you know, my my

place in my marriage with my wife right now is better than ever has been and I

just feel like this is a missing link that it's just not right. It doesn't sit with me and I want I want us to be a unit and I want to trust her. And I think all of that, Mike, like what you just said >> Say that to her. >> Say that to her because the truth is and you're feeling this is when there's a part of your marriage that you're not engaged in and you guys are living in two separate lives and you just sweep it under the rug cuz it's just easier.

The actual intimacy is built when you when you lift up the rug and you deal with the stuff you've been sweeping under for 13 years. You guys actually are going to have a better marriage on the other end.

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Up next is Victoria in Philadelphia. Hi,

Victoria. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you. Um, so my question is I'm

in Baby Steps 2, and I wanted to know is

it okay for me to spend beyond just the

four walls of necessities to spend quality time or make memories

with a family member who is terminally ill. Oh gosh, I'm so sorry.

Um Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, there's not a right or wrong, I would say, in the moral code of life of how to do your money. There's a plan at which will get you out of debt faster and a plan that won't, but you get to make the decision within that plan of um you know, how intense you want to be.

Um is there a I always I I always hate to ask this, >> who's the person? What's going on?

Uh so it's it's my mom. She is in her

mid-70s and she has dementia. She's in

about the middle stages. So, you know, I can't definitively say that she won't be able to go have lunch with me or go get her nails done and her hair, but I can say that the window for us to

be able to do that is getting smaller.

Yeah. And I do want to spend time with her and she enjoys doing those things and she enjoys going shopping, but I don't feel comfortable with her paying for it, either. Sure.

Does she enjoy

those things specifically or does she enjoy being with her daughter?

She enjoys being with me. She does. But so she's also lost her her driving um

privileges a couple of months ago.

And so I know getting out of the house and doing things, which typically involve spending money,

are important to her and make her feel more like quote normal.

>> Sure. Well, and that's what I was wondering is that there's a difference between we're going to get a cup of coffee and we're going to spend a couple hours together like doing whatever. Uh I'm going to send you a bunch of questions for Human Dex just as my gift to you. Like, we're going to just get to know each other again and we're going to talk and we're going to tell old stories, look at photo albums, whatever. Are there things you can do that are less expensive?

Cuz I'm 100% with you. I would spend every moment I got with my mom.

Every moment that I could. I get that.

Um but you can take her to do a bunch of really fancy expensive things

and or you can spend quality time with her. And I I I guess what I'm trying to say is you don't have to do either or.

No No time with mom. I'm on this baby step two journey. I'm trying to get out of debt. And or I need to we got to go

get our nails done, buy a new dress every week, we got to go out to fancy dinners, we got to do expensive stuff.

Is there ways y'all can spend amazing quality and rich time together um that doesn't require spending a whole bunch of money. And that just takes some creativity on your part.

Yeah, and I I do think we I try to find the balance now, but I am feeling sort

of morally Again, I guess I shouldn't use morally, but I'm feeling conflicted between my wanting to dedicate myself wholeheartedly to baby step two, but also wanting to do things with my mom that I

know she won't be able to do in the future.

Mhm. Is that Can I ask you a real hard question?

Sure. Is that your pain or is that hers?

It's mine. She's not really aware of

all of the ramifications. Okay.

So, the reason I'm asking is

if it's inside your chest, I want you to spend some time grieving it. Because it's less about I think what you're grieving, and tell me if I'm wrong, what you're grieving is not that we only have three or four times we can go get her nail our nails done together.

It's that in 10 years I won't be able to do this her anymore. In 4 years I won't be able to do this anymore.

Right? So, the grief is >> right, though. >> The grief is less on the the thing and more on oh, this this relationship that I've had with this woman for seven for for your whole life is coming to an end. It's going to become a new relationship.

Yes, it probably is that. Okay.

What I want you to do is don't try to bury that in expenses and don't try to bury that in shiny things. I want you to experience that as the grief that it is.

That's heartbreaking and that's sad.

Right? Okay. I can try. Well, in in it

here here's the the the magic is grief demands a witness. You have to have a couple of people that are not your mom that you can share how heartbreaking this is.

You have to have a couple of friends that you can talk to about this. I would love for you to write your mom a letter and read it to her.

I have something I want to tell you. You did a great job.

You've been an amazing mom to me.

And I want I I would rather instead of I don't I want to try to cram as many nail sessions in. And by the way, those are important. Take your mom and get her nails done. That's amazing.

I want there to be nothing left unsaid.

Do you get what I mean there? >> Yeah. Yeah. There's a a power in that, Victoria.

I hear you. Yeah.

And can I just tell you on behalf of everybody that's struggling with parents with dementia, I hate it. It's evil.

It's the worst.

I hate it with all my guts and I hate that you're going through this.

Thank you. Yeah. Your your mom won the lottery with you.

It's awesome to hear somebody that cares about their mom. Yeah.

No, but it's a good point, John, on And it's all that like when we talk about our money, there's always the root issue, whether we're talking about a marriage issue or whatever it may be.

But even a grief grief of the grief of losing a parent

and what you're walking through. And the immediate knee-jerk reaction is cuz I get it as she was talking. I was like, "Yeah, I want these experiences with her." And so that means we have to go do these things. You know what I mean? The action towards it.

Um but getting to the root of the motivation of what what's even going on under that. >> Yeah, actually I'm grieving is Yeah. I'm about to lose my mom. >> Yes. And she's still going to be alive.

And yes. And that's painful pain.

>> So hard. So hard.

All right, let's go to uh Ethan in Los

Angeles. Hey Ethan, welcome to the show.

Hey, how's it going? Doing great. How can we help? Hey, um located uh a little bit far away from Los Angeles, but that's the closest city. But um All good. All good.

>> yeah, I um My question is I um I bought

a house um almost about 2 years ago and

um you know, I know it needed some work to it and I uh I uh you know, I'm looking to have kids this year, but there's so much work that needs to be done to it. I might have to push that out to next year or if I really prioritize this year, I can get it done. But I also want to start investing again. Um I had to take it out to buy this house.

I'm I think I'm on baby step four.

my monthly income should be towards the

house and what should be towards investing or should I focus on fixing the house so I could have kids cuz Why can't you Why can't you have kids in the house you're in now? Is there danger?

>> Yeah, yeah, there's a I mean, when we got it, there was mold, foundation cracks, framing issues, and we fixed the framing issues and a lot of the mold, um but there's still mold upstairs. There's leaks in the house. Um I'm trying to fix those. I just finished the chimney, which was like four different things.

That took me like 4 months to do, so.

>> Okay. Well, what I would probably do, Ethan, is Baby Step 4 is investing 15% of your income into retirement. So, I probably would jump start that. I mean, I would I would get that going, and then any money you have left over, then you guys can cash flow some of these renovations.

And remember, too, a baby takes 9 months, you know? So, maybe uh you guys start the journey and you'll you'll have you'll have a a runway, if you will, uh

before the baby actually gets here, too.

So, I always um yeah, I always hate people putting off things like getting married or having kids or something when it comes to something financial. And I know this is obviously the home, and you want it to be safe that they are going to be living in. So, I totally totally understand that. But I wouldn't kick the can down the road so long.

Like, I would I would I would get on it. So, I would just do the minimum of what you guys need.

pregnancy to continue to do repairs and

cash flow the the savings.

Okay. All right, I understand. All right, well, I appreciate it. Thank you.

>> Absolutely, Ethan. And uh yeah, good luck on the on the next journey. But you guys, yeah, when you can start investing as early as possible. When you get to that Baby Step 4, I would do that 15%. I mean, it's

kind of a non-negotiable for me. And then anything above that be saving for things you want to do, whether it's replace a car, vacation, fix a house.

But that's beyond the 15% going into retirement.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with Dr.

John Delony and we are answering your questions. So, give us a call at 888-825-5225.

All right, let's go to Sam in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, Sam.

Hi, how's it going? >> Hi, we're doing great. How are you?

I'm all right. Um, can't complain. Just another day out here. Um, I guess I was uh glad listening to your guys' show and I figured I'd call in today. So. Well, glad you called in. What's up, brother?

I know what's I got So, I got a house um that's a little bit out of my price range that I bought probably about 4 years ago now. Um, and it's a rental property and I have two of my apartments that are vacant that need to be rehabbed. Um, I completely gutted them down to studs.

So, I guess my question is um, if I should apply for a HELOC. I'm almost out

of baby step two. I have about $8,000 in credit card debt left.

Um, but I I'm starting to get to the point where I can't really afford the home.

Um Is it a duplex? Is it one Is it one building and two units or is it two separate? >> uh it's a three fam- It's a three-family home. >> Okay. Um I currently live in one of them and then I rent the one I live in out

during the summertime and then I move on to a boat that I have not been able to sell for the last, I don't know how many years, four years now. Can Can I call something out?

Since you called us, you seem to always be onto the next scheme.

And like I'm going to buy a boat and then I'm going to buy a uh uh uh three-family home.

>> lived on a Yeah, I lived on a boat uh prior to buying the house and then >> No, I I got it. I got it. But like you always have a good idea, a next good idea, and it feels like all these good ideas are starting to close in around you cuz you gutted a house that you can't finish, you have a house that you can't afford, you got a boat you can't sell, and now you want to take out a leverage against the house that you can't afford yet.

And I guess at some point what I want to tell you is like at some point you got to pay the piper.

And I would suggest trying to deal in that reality and not trying to float this thing with yet another idea, another

thing off of Instagram or something and get another loan and leverage the whole property against that loan, by the way.

And like what would make you think you could pay that HELOC off?

Um I was kind of hoping to get them both both the other two remodeled. Um the rental property during the summer probably brings in about eight grand a month.

Eight grand a month for just the one unit? >> On one unit? Yeah. Yeah, uh I

where where the house is at is Wonderful. Okay. Okay, how long >> travel area. And both other units are

are gutted, you said, correct? Yeah, yeah, they were in I'm sorry, the house is super old when I bought it. Okay, so how how much money would it take to

to fix both of those up, each one individually?

I could probably I do all the work myself, so I could probably do them for both under 50,000, I think. So, what if

this summer you didn't get on your boat and live there for a year, and you spent the summer working your butt off getting these things finished?

Um yeah, yeah, well, then I need somewhere to live. Uh then I would lose the summer rental. No, I mean, you rent out the one room or the one unit, and you work on the other ones.

Uh there no, so there's three units in there. The one that >> in one and the other two are gutted. Is the is the boat near you?

Yeah, it's uh about a mile from my house. >> Okay, perfect. Go live on the boat, rent out the unit for eight grand a month, use that to help cash flow these renovations, and I would just cash flow them one at a time, Sam. So, no, we're not going to tell you to take out a HELOC. Now, the other the other um option would be to look at everything in full with two vacant, gutted units,

yours, and how much would the whole thing sell for, and do you want to get out of this deal? There could be a an exit here because I I mean, I don't know if you enjoy >> Yeah. living next to renters that you renting from you in these other units.

You know what I mean? The whole the whole thing. So, I just wonder if you if you could get out with some equity still, even though they're still gutted, but have another investor come in and buy it, and then you go buy something small that you can afford, and you don't have to worry about all the rental stuff.

Okay. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at, cuz the house has a lot of equity in it, so I just >> What what How much Yeah, how much you owe on it?

I owe 450 right now. >> And how much would it go for?

Uh the the three families that probably about the same shape as mine all of the inside of it looks like but from the outside they're about the same. I think they sold for 1.8. Oh my gosh.

>> Yeah, but is that completely redone with all new appliances and all new I I never checked and saw I never looked at that listing. I don't know if the old lady that when she passed away if the kids redid it and then sold it or if it was redone when she was alive. >> I would get a realtor. I never I would go to ramseysolutions.com and get a realtor in your area, a real estate pro, and I would get real numbers on what they think they could flip it for.

>> Mhm. Yep. And I would take any cash that I got had extra and count my lucky stars and not do this again. Yeah, because even if even if you had to drop the price 400,000, that's 1.4 million.

You know what I mean?

>> 66% of it is gutted down to the studs,

uh, imagine you're going to get 30% of 1.8 million or 40% of 1.8 million,

right? And so even then you win.

>> You get out of this mess. >> Yeah, yeah, I know I'm not negative in the house. I'm just curious though.

I guess what you guys' opinion would be.

>> so it would be it would be option A or B for me. It's A, I'm going to just slowly redo each unit because you love

the life you're in, you like having the renters, you like the income, you whatever and you're going to pay it off eventually cuz it's I mean it's a great it's $450,000, right? So you would just put it in baby step six and and you and you keep it. Uh, but you just do the renovation slowly with cash. Or option B

is I'm just going to eject out of this whole thing and holy crap, make a make a lot of money probably. Go buy something with cash.

Say I'm You know what I mean? For real. Go buy something with cash and then just enjoy your life.

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at here cuz I don't have much for investing. I just I'm I'm more at the like I said I'm on baby stuff too. I'm I've got about 8,000 left on credit card debt and then I was going to move on but For sure. That's why I wasn't sure if I should take on more debt just to >> Please don't.

Yeah. You've worked too hard to get here, man. You've worked too hard. >> Yeah, yeah, the no the no debt piece is a is a non-starter for us.

So no, no HELOC.

If that's if that's true with a with a million dollars.

Um yeah, and that and that's always hard you guys. The the whole investment property side of life that people

look for and or fall into thinking that

it's going to be easy passive income

continues to come back to to to show that it it's stressful, you guys.

>> Well, and I've also noticed this.

Um on my daughter Josephine, she's 10.

She's all into home renovation shows.

She loves watching them. And I noticed the other day the demo side,

they always show everyone having fun.

They play the cool music and they got sledgehammers and they're taking all the stuff out.

They don't spend a lot of time when the house is down to the studs cuz they show these pros come in and wire it all up and then they show them at the fixture store. It's just like a boom. It's a nightmare when you're looking at a house full of studs and you have to level it and fix it. It's not fun and that's when the Instagram like, oh, this is so fun.

>> Tell me romantic so fun. It die. Yeah.

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Up next is Chris in Louisville. Hi Chris, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

Yeah, um so I was just wondering, I have some I have a little bit of debt and I'm recently wanting to move closer to a girlfriend and I don't know how to kind of navigate

that. Okay, how much debt do you have?

Uh about 38,000. Okay. And how much do you make?

Uh 2,200 a month.

Yikes.

What are you doing for work?

I work in a factory. Okay. And is there >> my net. My take home. Okay.

Um And do you have a job where the girlfriend is?

Uh no, but there are a lot of opportunities there.

Okay. How long have you guys been dating?

Uh a couple months.

How far How far is she from you?

Uh about 2 hours. Okay.

Um And how much will all Have you Have you added up all the moving expenses and the

difference of the housing you're paying now for rent versus where you would live? I mean, have you done all that math?

I've I've looked at it a little bit, but I haven't done an in-depth analysis.

Okay. So I mean, for now my goal would be to get out of debt as quickly as possible. So I don't know if living where you're living, working where you're working now gives you that opportunity or where she is. Is there a better job that you can make more money?

And it's a plus plus on your side of the

financial spectrum. Um I mean, I would ask those questions, but I don't know a a move um Gosh, switching jobs, everything for

a couple month relationship just feels fast. >> Here's the thing. I, back when I was dating a quarter century ago, I'm a guy

who falls hard, okay?

All right. >> And I would get what I would call love dumb or love blind or love stupid, whatever you want to say.

And I only have a job because people make really feel really big, firm plans with their relationships and they don't work out.

And so, as you're talking, what I'm going to is what happens when you go down there, all these {quote} {unquote} great opportunities don't materialize.

Y'all break up 2 months later and this $40,000 of debt has followed you plus whatever loan you think you're going to take out to get the move even there, get a deposit on your place, get a apartment, all that kind of stuff.

And so, I would I wouldn't move. If you were my friend or my son or my brother, I wouldn't tell you I would tell you don't move unless you have a job lined up that you start on this date. Yes. And you have a place to live that you already know you can afford and you've already done some of the math on the back of a napkin, not even a napkin, on a spreadsheet that says, "Here's how much taxes are going to be, here's what my take home pay is going to be, and here's my plan to continue to get out of debt as I'm going." And I know that makes me uh fun ruiner cuz you're like, "Dude, I finally met somebody." I totally get that sentiment and feeling.

Um but man, it can get you in a lot of trouble and turn a $38,000 mess into a $50,000

mess and a broken heart and in a strange town um all at the same time. And so, I would be much more concrete in what are my plans, what am I going to do, not just I'm in love, I'm in love, I'm in love, I'm in love.

Yeah. Does that make sense? Yep, absolutely. So, yeah, if there's a job and you got everything and you're like, "Hey, this is this is an upside for me plus I get to live close to the girlfriend." Then yeah, then that's great. You can make You can move while you're in baby step, too. If you cash flow it, it's just going to pause that process for a little bit. But, don't let the yeah, the love

cloud some good judgement and actually have a plan in place. >> And I like the idea of you getting another job and making way more money than you're making. >> 100%. >> for a new job in that community and go go line it up. >> And regardless, be working nights and weekends with a side hustle and get the $38,000 paid off. >> Yes. All right, let's go to Corey in Nashville. Hi Corey.

Hello, good afternoon. Hello, thanks for calling. How can we help?

Uh yes, I was calling on regards to a

collection that we have on our credit, my wife and I. Uh dealing with a a landlord from 3 years ago.

Um I've been contacting this collection agency trying to settle with them and they're I I think I'm settling for too much, but beggars can't be choosers.

Um we we need to settle this get this off of our credit so that we can move in to another rental home.

Um but the collection agency is not

willing to send me an offer letter and I just Why?

I feel very hesitant. Yes, yes, yes.

>> Don't send them a dime until you have something in writing. Why why are they not Why are they Why are they not doing it?

They Their reasoning was that if they send an offer letter, they're they're saying that other people have used that to get into other rental and I just don't see that adding up, you know.

I've never heard that. It might That doesn't mean it's not true, but I've never heard that.

Tell them that you can't make a payment until you have something in writing.

Yeah, what are you What do you owe them?

How much do you owe?

So originally the the debt was just just shy of or just a little over 5,000 and now over the course of 3 years with interest it bumped up to 57. They were willing to settle at four and I I kind of just need it off of my credit so I can move into another home. Corey, do you guys have the cash?

>> Yeah.

We do. Okay.

And you've already offered them four, is that right?

Yeah, well, I started off a lot lower and then Okay. And they wouldn't budge, okay. >> I've been working on this for a couple Yeah, for a couple of months and I think that they know that we I need it off of my Yeah, but >> my credit as well to be able to move into another home. Yeah, but let me say you're in the driver's seat, too. You're all both You're It's a game of chicken cuz they need Did they have already made come to terms with they're not going to get this money back?

And so, the fact that you're offering them four grand is a huge olive branch for them, too.

Mhm. I would hang up and call somebody back and hang up and call somebody back and say, "I've received a settlement offer for four grand. I'm prepared to write the check, but just need an email.

I need something in writing that confirms this is the final offer.

And I will I will get you paid." >> they And if they don't, just don't send them a dime, huh? Say, I can't I Just tell them, "I can't send you a dime until I have confirmation in writing." >> Because they lie, Corey. >> Yeah, they lie. That's what they did.

>> These collectors Yeah, they'll take your money and be like, "We didn't get a payment. What are you talking about? We didn't say to settle.

It's gone to 8,000 cuz we sold it to like Yeah, I You just can't Don't get Here's the two rules of thumb.

Have to get an offer in writing and never give them electronic access to your checking account.

Cuz they're going to want to withdraw it immediately and say, "No, no, no, I will I will I'll get you paid another way."

Okay.

And I think they're I think they're playing games with you. Yeah, I know. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's just a game It's a game, Corey, and at this point, it's been 3 years. Cuz who who owns the debt right now? Which What What collections agency?

Genesis. Okay. So, look them up online

and you're going to see this like made website I mean, they're they're they're It's someone in a cubicle, Corey, who got this debt put on their desk that they're having to collect, and then in 2 months if it's not paid, there's a there's another collections agency that's going to buy bad debt from this collections agency, and it just hops around. Like, it's just it's it's a crummy crummy industry, and the turnover, the person you're talking to is probably not even going to be in that job in 60 days. So, like, you're not dealing with intelligent life over there, okay?

So, you to play hardball, that's fine. They don't scare you. They shouldn't scare you. They should be scared cuz they need money.

So, >> Right. And you've just got $4,000 to give them. >> got it. So, you're like, I have it.

You have to send me And if they say no, be like, all right, no deal. Hang up. Call again. Call again, just like John said, and it's such a pain in the butt, but it's the way to do it.

We've heard horror stories of people not doing this and sending these types of companies money, and then they change the deal on you. And so, >> Tell them, "Please, please let me pay you this money. I have it. Please let you give me my money.

Uh I just need it in writing." Yep.

That's it. But you know, I would not send them a dime. And and then you guys just need to have some patience because your urgency to get it off your credit to go and buy a home or to go to another rental property, but don't let that urgency make you know, cause you to make a big mistake. Be patient. Be thinking through this and get it in writing.

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All right, let's go to Colin in Orlando.

Hi, Colin. Welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, um I'm 22, and a year and a half ago I was given around $40,000 in a lump sum. Since then, I've made some pretty bad decisions when it came to changing car to car, and I also had a roommate to sue, and now I'm only left with about $11,000 invested up into stocks.

Um my main question is because now I have a truck payment that's around $1,200 a month. >> Good. Oh, mighty, dude.

$76,000.

I'm upside down $16,000.

>> truck. Yes. Ridiculous. Okay.

And I don't make enough money to pay it, and I'm being kicked out of my house, so I'm about to be moving and paying rent at a new place, and I'm worried this truck payment is going to crush me. I'll be able to afford my bills, but only being able to save like anywhere from 5 to 800 dollars a month, and I'm just wondering what's the smartest way to fix this.

Why are you being kicked out?

Um you know, I got out of the military a little early after little mental health

went through some traumatic events, and it's just been hard for my family, and you know, I was going to school, and I moved out a few times, and I'm not in school anymore. So, it's just been a conflict with my parents, so I'm having to relocate from Florida to Texas. Oh, wow. Gosh, I'm sorry, Colin. How old are you? 22. Wow. Are you Are you um

Are Are you interested in getting the help that you need?

Uh absolutely. Okay. All right. All right. Will you Will you make it Forget the money for a second. Forget the truck for a second. Will you make that a top commitment? When you get to Texas?

>> Yes. Yes, sir. Absolutely. And I I That's the reason I reached out is because a lot of the car I flipped I believe it was three different cars into the truck I'm in now in a span of a year due to mental health uh effects, and that's no excuse, and I've gotten on top of that through the VA, and I'm on medication, and I'm just ready to fix this because I I I can't do this.

Yeah, that's a lot, Colin. Can you metabolize and I'm saying this with a smile on my face, okay? So, if you were here, you'd you'd hear what I'm saying. You'd see what I'm saying, okay?

a what I would call a $40,000 stupid

tax?

Yep. Okay. So, if Would we draw that up

again? No. Would we run it back differently? Yep. But, we can't do either of those things, and so the reality is here we are.

Yeah. I would sell that stuff Rachel, tell me if I'm wrong. I would sell that stock, and I'd go take out a $5,000 loan from a credit union. I would sell that truck, or maybe a $7,000 loan from a credit union. I would take that stock, put a 11 grand towards it, get this truck sold, pay the difference, and then buy a $2,000 1988 Corolla with 400,000 mi on it

that's still driving, and that would be my car for a season while I got well and got my feet back under me. Yep, that's exactly what I would do, which would be about a $7,000 loan and a crappy car versus a nice truck

that's is worth $76,000 and I'm underwater cuz I've been rolling negative equity into other cars into this thing. So, it's a much more peaceful place to be, and then you just got to work your way out of that seven grand, and I would make an aggressive goal, Colin, I would say, "Hey, every month I'm going to put 1,500 bucks, I'm going to put 1,000 bucks, and in 5 to 7 months I'm going to be completely debt-free." And getting some traction like that, Colin, I think it's going to be really good for you. It sounds like there's been a lot of setbacks, and you've made decisions with money that weren't great, right?

The $40,000 that's gone, the the truck, the I mean, all of it. And so, to have some really good wins, I think that's going to feel really good for you. I think you need a little bit of confidence.

Um and so, I think to get you on a new path, get those kind of wheels turning in the more positive direction is going to be big. But these are some big things we're asking you to do. I mean, you're selling a nice truck, you're going to be driving a crappy car, you got to go to your own credit union, you know, talk to the talk to the the president there and just say, "Hey, here's the deal. What can I do?" I mean, yeah, there's some work involved in doing it, but I think your situation's going to feel so much different in 30 to 40 days.

Here's what I want your number one goal to be, okay?

I want to reestablish trust again with Colin.

Colin's a guy that does the next right thing. He takes his meds, even when he feels good, he takes them.

He goes out for a run in the morning.

He gets out of bed and goes to his first job, and then he comes home and he has a sandwich that he makes.

He didn't go out to eat, and then he goes to a second job.

And he went to the bank and put on his nicest clothes that he pressed, and he shook hands, and he is going to get this thing paid off and in 40 days, you're going to start feeling a little bit taller. In 6 months, when you're done with all this debt, you're going to be standing 8 ft tall because you'll have you'll begin to reestablish Colin as a man that I trust. I trust myself. And then I can begin to head out into the world and do the great things that you're called to do.

Yeah. That's That's honestly probably what I'm going to do. Thank you. And I just needed to hear the reassurance because I thought about doing it already, but my family, you know, obviously has their own opinions, and I've already switched vehicles so much, it's hard for them to look at me and it's hard for them to just go sell another vehicle and buy a new one.

Which is fair to them because the pattern that was Yeah, that was set was different.

That's it. Great job, Colin. We're cheering you on, man. >> we believe in you, brother. For sure.

All right, let's go to Logan in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Logan.

Hi, Rachel. Hi, John. How you guys doing? We're doing great. How can we help? Good. I have a little bit of a relationship question. My wife and I are in baby step two.

We got a $1,000 saved up, and we're working on paying off $75,000 of consumer debt.

Um my wife wants to help contribute

income-wise. She's a stay-at-home mom with her two little And um she was thinking of things that she could do while while also being home with the little. And she wants to start like a like a embroidery type business, like selling stuff on Etsy and stuff online. Yeah. Um

but she needs a little bit of money to kind of get everything started like some like the sewing machine and stuff. I don't really know the details but what I do my opinion was let's focus on paying

off the debt and then we could start something new before we add something in all of this.

I just kind of started the Yeah, has she ever done it before?

Um no. Okay. Not really. Yeah, I'm I'm

>> I'm probably more on your on your side. If she's done it before and she's really good at it and she has a track record or a history of it and you're like hey we got to put a couple hundred bucks into a used machine but she can make two to three grand a month and it's pretty guaranteed then I'd say all day. All day do that. But if she's never done it before what scares me is you get into this and and I love her I love her gumption though.

The fact that she's like hey I can do something but she's going to there's a good chance you get into this cuz she's never done it before and she's you know you guys have two or three kids and she's doing that. She she does really well for the first month or two and then it starts getting behind and then the motivation kind of goes away and the reality sets in because there's not been a pattern established yet in her doing this type of business. So yeah.

Mhm. And they make great money doing that and it goes into the rhythm of their life and it doesn't cost a lot of capital outlay. You don't have to go buy cuz she's not going to want to buy a used machine issue. She's going to go buy a real nice one and all the equipment and all the threads and all the stuff.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah and because she's never done it before. That's my thing. If she's had a history of this and she already had an Etsy shop a few years you know what I mean if she's done it then I'd be like that's one thing.

But starting something just completely new that has that kind of investment right now, the longevity is what I worry about if it's >> the craft is one thing. You have to photograph it just right. You have to upload it. You have to ship it.

You have to like it's it's a lot more than just I can make doilies or I can make bandannas or whatever she wants to do. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, so if you guys could find something that's way cheaper and you guys come to like a couple hundred bucks and she wants to try it, you know, I would probably be okay with that.

I just wouldn't buy anything new and I would I would have it with a very open hand, but I would I wouldn't spend probably I mean I don't know how much these machines cost. I'm just throwing out there, but from the from the math of it all, I probably wouldn't spend more than 500 bucks on something new.

>> Yes. Yes. during all of it. So, I don't know if that's helpful Logan, but I still appreciate her idea. I would just find something that that she could do to contribute that doesn't cost that doesn't cost that much, right? That much of an initial investment.

Buying or selling your home is a really big deal and with all the clickbait headlines that are out there and there's so much conflicting data, it's hard to know what is really happening in the housing market. So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand.

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All right, let's head to Karen in St.

Louis. Hi, Karen. Welcome to the show.

Hi. I always apologize for my name.

Oh, goodness gracious. That is a that's I have an aunt Karen. That's >> is John I have an aunt Karen. My name is John after a toilet. You're fine.

>> That's a tough name to have these days, Karen. We do not judge. We do not see you as stereotypical Karen. We are

We are >> We are happy you called in. How can we help?

So, I am a recently divorced 58-year-old

nurse working full-time. I make about $90,000 a year.

>> Okay. I have just finished baby step two. Woohoo! >> Yeah, good for you.

And I'm now working on uh my fully funded emergency fund. Okay.

I have about $230,000 in my retirement and I'm currently a renter.

And my question is, should a mortgage or a house even be in my consideration for

the future cuz it's my income's not going to really change in the next much in the next 10 years. Or should I just dump everything I can into my investments for retirement? So, I just

I'll let Rachel handle answer the the house question. I just put your current numbers in the Ramsey investment calculator, okay?

I put your age at 58.

And since you're a nurse, now you might say, "No." But I put I put 70, okay?

That you would work till 70 and that you currently have 230 grand in investments.

And I put that you would contribute a thousand bucks a month.

If you contributed a thousand dollars a month, >> it. Yeah. you would have 1 million

36,000 dollars when you turn 70.

Mhm.

Okay. >> Does that make you breathe a little easier?

Totally. Totally.

And And the caveat in my

financial future is my parents who are in their mid-80s, my inheritance will pay fully for a

home.

Okay.

Or it would >> Should I It would go into your retirement. >> my retirement. Yeah. Right. So, I'm just trying to figure out what the best direction is to even consider a home or just retirement. Yeah, so I would consider a home because that housing line item in your budget is going to be the most expensive and it will continue to go up, rent will. Right.

>> having a home is going to be Yeah, it's going to be important, but your home, Karen, it may just be like a condo, right? It doesn't I mean >> Yeah, I'm fine with that. I'm totally fine with that. >> Yes. Okay, how Do you Have you looked at all prices in your area and what that would be, like a one-bedroom somewhere?

Um they run probably about 200 to 250.

>> Okay, perfect. So, what I would do is I

would fund 15% into retirement regardless and that probably comes out to that thousand bucks a month-ish. Um so, I would I would stay

consistent with that, Karen, and then I would make my only goal to be to save up, yeah, for a down payment and get into something. And then you your next goal would be to pay it off. And then when your inheritance comes, whenever that is, that's just the bonus money on top, right, to help pay off the house and fund retirement. Or maybe your parents live, I don't know, another 15 years and they're in their late 90s and you've, you know, maybe already taken a big chunk of the house and then you get this inheritance and most of it goes into retirement at that point.

But those would be my goals. It'd be 15% into retirement and then I would save for a down payment and get into something.

>> Um because we want it paid off. I want that I the goal would be to have that paid off, that property, when you go into retirement at 70, which I think which you easily can do. People that do the baby steps millionaires plan, they're paying off their homes in seven-ish years on average. So, I think you can I with a $90,000 salary, if you live really tightly, I think that there is a yeah, there's a good chance you can have this paid off in seven, eight years and I think that's very doable for you for a $200,000 mortgage.

Sure. How much how much inheritance, if

you had to guess a number, what do you think that number's going to be?

350. Okay.

So, if it was you were going to say >> open conversations with my parents, by the >> awesome. So, if you were going to tell me it actually confirms what I want to just caution you about, okay? If you were going to say 3.5 million or 35 million, not worried about it.

But if they're saying I'm going to give you $350,000, do you have siblings, too?

Yeah, but they'll get that amount also.

>> Okay. So, let's say your parents are projecting to have a million dollars when they pass away and they're going to give you 350, your brother 350, and your sister 350.

Right. >> Um this is where I'm going to get dark for 2 seconds and I'm doing this for a reason, okay?

Okay. >> of them has a 6-month stay in ICU

because they have uh congestive heart failure that goes into something that goes into something, Mhm. >> burn through some of that cash in a wild way.

I agree. Yes, and that's why I know it's not a guarantee. Okay, so what Yeah, my caution is create a life for yourself that if this money never comes through, you're all good.

Right. And if it does, >> was >> amazing, right?

Right. I didn't I didn't want to depend on it, but it the little caveat.

>> Yes. >> And I just kind of wanted to throw it out there, but I wanted to make the right decisions for my finances, not Perfect. >> not depending on that. >> You You are in rare air. Most people,

honestly, before I started working on this show, would have been me, too, would have sa- seen, "Oh, I can afford a $250,000 house, plus I'm going to get this 350. I'm going to buy a $600,000 house." No. And then it'll just get paid off later. And later might be, "Hey, your inheritance is a 100 grand because we had to spend it on this and this and retirement care and a and a in a facility and whatever." And so, yes, you are so wise, so wise.

Okay, so that's good to know cuz I my

my thinking was going, "Just dump everything in a retirement and don't worry about a house." But you've kind of Yeah, I know. I would I would have something long term, yep, that you own and that no one can take from you. It's paid off and there's no rent you're having to chase as it continues to go up year after year. So, yeah, owning something is big.

And you know, John did some of that math on the investment calculator, but I think that that is a place that you You've done such a great job, Karen.

And what's wild is that doubles every 7

years when you actually look at the math. So, that would be 400, you know,

and um yeah, after I I did the math, it was after 14 years it's going to be like 932,000 if you don't touch it.

And that's if you don't put another penny in it. And that yeah, and that's if you yeah, don't put another penny in. So, there you're So, it's going to yeah,

you're doing really great on that end.

So, I don't want you to feel this urgency of I mean, we still want to contribute because we want you to have a great retirement that you can go and live your dreams. But, it's not like you don't have anything right now. We get a lot of people that call up and they literally are starting Yeah, they have nothing and they're 58 years old. So, um so, you're I want to just assure you you're doing a great job on that end.

I would still fund it some after you get that 3 to 6 months of expenses, but Right. Right. >> be Yep, I would be looking for something. And if you can put 20% down, Karen, like if you're able to to take your expenses and figure out a way to rent for a few more years and have a 20% down payment, like that's awesome.

Or if you want to get into something Yep, or if you want to get into something at five, if you find a great deal and it's a good location and everything you want and it makes sense.

So, that's kind of our Ramsey formula for it. And I think you're going to be able to do that with 90,000. And the great thing about nursing, too, is if there's a season, maybe a year or so that you want to do some extra overtime, like Knock that house out.

>> Yes, you're able to really do that, Karen. So, um I know you I think you said newly newly single or newly divorced. So, um you're starting a new chapter in your life, Karen. We're really proud of you. Thanks for the call.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruze with Dr. John Delony and we are taking your calls about life and money. So, give us a call at 888-825-5225.

All right, let's go to Atlanta and we have Dan on the line. Hi Dan.

Rachel, hey. Thanks for having me. How are you? >> Absolutely. We're doing great. How are you doing? I'm doing well. Thanks for asking.

Awesome. How can we help today?

So, I am coming at you guys as a

concerned brother {slash} son. So, I'm

the oldest of three brothers. We're all in our 30s.

My specifically my youngest brother, who

just turned 30, he has never financially

been independent from my parents.

And so, you know, being the baby that might have something to do with it, but just ever since he's been in college and have graduated and is now married, my

parents have always financially provided

for him even, you know, in adult life, marriage, into his 30s, etc. Um

about 3 years ago, my dad sold his

company that he worked really, really hard to build. Built it over about 25 years. Sold it, made some good money, and naturally, since that happened, asks for money or

for financial help from my brothers, specifically my youngest, have have drastically increased.

Um I have expressed my concerns to my

parents that they are getting taken advantage of.

They have heard those, don't necessarily acknowledge those. My dad is a an incredibly generous person and uh would call himself a Dave Ramsey disciple, but um he uh doesn't really, I don't think, see the fact that he's getting taken advantage of. For a little more context, my wife and his brother um are pregnant and they are expecting this year. And I just choose to believe

that they wouldn't necessarily be planning to expand their family unless they had a financial backer in the form of my parents. And so I just see it coming from a mile away and my parents

So what can I do for you? See it that way? I don't know. I want my parents to understand that what's really happening.

Um and I don't >> here's the thing.

I don't think you're mad at your brother.

Um Cuz you Not necessarily, no. I I No, I wouldn't say mad. How how well the problem here is not your brother.

Ye- yes, if he was on the call, I would tell him to grow up and be an adult.

>> It's your parents. It's your parents, dude. And the the part that you have to like like, man, I overuse this word, I think, but you have to metabolize is you told your dad what you think and he through his actions said, "I don't care.

I'm a grown man and this is my money and I get to do what I want with it." And >> true. I mean, they do get to do what with their money as they please, which I completely respect. I just >> Why why do you think they're getting taken advantage of? They sound like they're sound mind, they're smart people, they're generous people. Why do you think they're getting ripped off?

Um I just I don't I mean, look, the the help that he's providing is not like setting my parents back or anything necessarily, but um I I think that

he might struggle a little bit with the idea of like, well, do I take, you know, my kids off the payroll or do I tell them to go figure it out?

>> Why >> why are you Why are you inventing stories that might be in his head?

And then trying to judge him for those stories.

I don't I don't want to say I'm judging.

I just So, here's where I'm at. I am very protective of what my parents have built my family. >> Dan, that you've worked hard, you're supporting yourself, so is your brother, your middle brother, and then your younger brother's kind of mooching off your parents, and you're annoyed by it.

That That frustrates you. It's annoying to you. You don't like it, right?

That is fair. That is absolutely fair.

>> and you're mad at your dad.

>> Yes, like it's your parents' decision.

And you can't change your brother. >> and they're obviously smart people.

They're choosing to do this, and so that may hurt you. That That That may be frustrating, golly, that he gets this handout, and me and my wife aren't getting anything. Mom Dad Mom Dad aren't reaching out to us, and you know, it's not It doesn't feel fair. Whatever the feelings are, I think those are all your feelings, but you're not going to be able to to change what they're doing.

It's You know what I mean? In a way, it's It's a None of your business. I mean, kind of, right?

then shoot Yes, A, it's frustrating.

It's maddening, dude. And we're both on your side here. Yeah.

>> For sure. The But to continue to dwell on it, to create I think he's doing it cuz of this, and I can't believe he's probably It's a choice for you to be miserable in your own skin.

And so >> So, what? Go ahead. I I literally and I and I don't say this lightly, I would let it go.

Cuz you've put You've made your position known. Your little brother is not of character to that he wants to build up his own home on his own. He wants to keep asking for Dad for money, and your dad is of the opinion that he can do whatever he want with his money, include fund his youngest son's life.

And so, I've made my position known.

I'm going to choose to not let that misery poison my household, me and my wife's relationship, our kids' lives, we're going to choose joy and happiness in our life, which means I'm out. I'm out of y'all's fights, I'm out of your money drama, I'm out of all that stuff.

And I'm going to make peace with the life I have chosen to create for me and my spouse. Mhm. Cuz any other choice is a choice to be miserable, cuz you can't control any of the other stuff you want to control.

So, I don't think I'd say I'm miserable.

I think frustrated is definitely definitely the accurate word. And >> calling us to talk about it though, Dan.

Well, so here's to John, to your point, like yes, I have

made my my thoughts known and I've expressed these to my parents and I've made the decision, like I'm not going to bring it up again, right? So, I'm not I'm not necessarily like pushing the envelope or trying to continually like rehash it, but it is it is frustrating.

So, my dad was a guy who taught me to just work for everything that I have and to grind it out and to hustle and that's how I sort of like molded my life. I know, but you're you're you're setting yourself up in a in a in a lifeguard tower looking down on your brother and your dad.

And you're asking why aren't y'all up here with me?

And what I want to tell you is just climb off the lifeguard tower and get on with your life.

Right? Cuz even then you you you you loop back to I've done these things, my dad taught me this stuff, I built my life this way and my son ha- I mean, my brother hasn't. And it's like, you're right and all you're left with is your frustration, but nothing's going to change. You get what I'm saying?

I do. I do. And I I don't disagree. I mean, there's nothing I can do to So, how can we help Dan?

What do you need from us? Well, I still I just still go back to the fact that my and and look, maybe there isn't an answer. Maybe I just have to let it, you know, let things take their course, but um my parents are essentially right now the giving tree and at At point they're there's they're going to get picked and picked and picked and maybe they got a figured it out.

But they're so Your advice is to just let let that happen. >> Let it happen. You can't do anything different. Give me an alternative.

Here's the big Are you going to go file a competency claim against your parents and take over like right? So what are you going to You can't do anything. >> Dan, can I tell you after thousands of dollars of therapy through my life, coming to the realization that you can't change people. And I used to really believe in my head, if I say this sentence in this conversation with this person this way, they're going to get it.

Like the light bulb's going to They're going to see it. If I Oh, I have a great way to present it and they're they're going to get it. >> Yes.

You can say it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and

they may not change. So at Christmas, when you all go out to dinner, you get a separate tab for you and your wife and say, "I'm not going to take dad's money." That's what you can control.

Nothing else at that table.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey Show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar Budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living at normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Our question of the day is brought to you by Yrefi. If private student loan

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Our uh today's question comes from Rachel in Louisiana. >> Hey, Rachel. This is probably going to be a doozy. >> I can't wait.

My husband and I are on are on baby step three. We currently have $15,000 saved and our monthly expenses average around six grand. Our monthly take-home pay is 10,000. I recently got a promotion that will come with new responsibilities and workloads to balance. I would like to hire a house cleaner to free up more time for us as a family.

My husband feels like it will cost too much and that we'll neglect our parental responsibilities.

What? At what point in the baby steps can we reasonably afford to hire a house cleaner?

Um Oh, man. I got all kinds of feelings about this.

Neglect our parental part That's funny.

Responsibilities. I'm like, uh-uh. Yeah.

I I I I think what what it sounds like to me, Rachel from Louisiana, is that your husband is volunteering to take on the

new um cleaning house cleaning um cuz he

believes it's too expensive. Fair. So, um, but you've taken on this new job with new responsibilities and workloads, and since he doesn't want to hire some support and help, then he, sounds like he's, uh, volunteering to do it. >> it all. That's awesome. What a great husband. >> husband, so selfless.

>> Yeah. So so selfless.

>> so nice. So nice of him.

>> W- What Rachel, what what would your math answer be? I mean, not even math.

What would >> I know. Well, I was going to say, I mean, a 3-month emergency funds basically would be 18,000. They have $15,000 saved. I would get to 18,000 and I'd hire a house cleaner. Yeah.

>> Once a month, every other week, I don't know. So, find someone come in and yeah.

I mean, put that part of your budget, make that part of your lifestyle. And if it And if it doesn't work, if you really can't afford it because that's going to take away from other things, then that's definitely a opportunity cost conversation you guys have to have. Like, okay, right now we just can't do that. That's fine if it doesn't work, but if you can make the math work and it gives you some sanity, I'm all about delegating things that you can delegate.

Yeah. When you especially when you're past baby step three. And I have to say, I I was against that, like, the thought of hiring somebody to mow my lawn. W- I didn't realize how deep that w- went.

>> Yes, that's how Winston was, too.

>> Yes. And who is my son going to think I am, right? >> Yes. >> And uh, I was I was wrong on that. And so, I chose other responsibilities to take me out of my house and so, I've I've I I actually

see this opposite. It I was hiding with

the on the mower. Mhm. From p- per- from what this guy is saying, parental responsibilities. I would mow for hours and hours and hours, and I was avoiding being with my kids and present with my wife, and so I made a choice, I'm going to outsource this so that I can do this stuff right.

>> That's right. Yeah. >> And we happen to be in a season where we could afford to do that, right? >> Yeah.

I love it. >> But man, um You know, Arthur Brooks talks about that. There's five things you can do with money, and four will bring happiness, one will not. The one that will not, spoiler alert, is just buy stuff.

Giving does, savings does, uh buying

experiences with people you love. And the other thing was using money to buy back your time. >> time. And actually using your time, not like scrolling Instagram, but actually using it in a meaningful way.

So, that's actually a way to find a level of joy with your money is to buy back time. >> And I want to call this out. Rachel, you and I have taught this from stage for years now at our Money & Marriage Retreat. If one of you in your marriage, if y'all are both workers and both working outside the home, and one of you gets a promotion, and it's a new responsibilities, new workloads, I want to challenge you both to consider that you now have a new marriage.

Cuz your old marriage was built on this routine, this dollar amount, this time, this space, and now things are different.

And so, let's go treat this for what it is is the marriage we had doesn't exist anymore. Now, we got a new one with new dynamics, new jobs, new responsibilities, and let's re co-create

this thing. Let's reimagine who's doing what, what needs to get done, how do we want this house to feel when we get home every day, and let's build that from the floor up. That can be a fun, like really

adventurous, exciting, joy-filled time,

an intimate time together. How do we want this place to feel? Not, "Well, we used to. It's going to be you used to you never anymore." Man, that's a way to just burn the whole thing down all the way to ash. >> Create a new a new marriage. I love it.

All right, let's go to Lindsey in San Diego. Hey Lindsey, welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks guys. Um so, I've always been

the most frugal person my whole life and always invested and even though no matter how much I have, I can still hard for me like I every penny I'm still like looking at what I'm spending even though I don't have to. But um I basically I have so much and uh I only spend it on like vacations, travel and

um So, I was wondering like if I want to go on a trip like with girlfriends, I should I I think if I can cover them or um But then everyone's like nobody knows I have much money cuz I don't use it or anything. How much is How much How much is this?

Um over 14 million.

14 million?

14, yeah. Didn't see that coming. Well done, Lindsey. You want me and John to come on a trip You can I'll go anywhere with you, Lindsey. I'll go on a vacation with you, Lindsey. What do you do for a job? What do you How did you How did you accumulate that much?

Um I've always invested in everything and a shop and net funds like >> Yeah, what do you do for a living? What was your income? I mean that I'm sorry.

What What Yeah, what just what do you do for a living? >> matter what it is, but um now I just trade options with my money.

So, it I make a lot. I make too much.

But and um So, my whole life like ever since I was 20 I've always been investing. >> Okay, how old are you? I'm investing.

54. Okay. Are you married?

Not anymore. Okay, not Okay, yeah yeah yeah. Kids?

Uh they're they're adults, yeah. >> They're adults, okay. Okay, so your question is you want to go on a girls' trip and pay for your friends.

So, they don't usually like have money, you know, they don't they probably have money problems. Nobody you know knows.

So, I don't know if it's awkward and weird and that they kind of don't want that and if it makes things, you know, weird and stuff like that.

>> Totally. Absolutely.

Um if your knee-jerk reaction, knowing your friends well, how do you think they would react if you're like, "Hey, I have a bucket list trip I want to take and I want my people with me and I kind of just want to treat everyone. Would that make it weird for your friends? You know your friends well enough. Is that Is that awkward for them? Would they be offended? Would they be excited? How do you think they would respond?

Um I don't know. One might, you know, one might be like, "Oh, that's okay." You know, they just might feel awkward.

But I think in general I'm sure they would like it. But it's just weird because like I mean they have no idea, you know?

>> And they don't have to know 14. They don't have to know all that. >> Here Here's Here's the Here's the path Here's the thing I want you to think through. Would you rather when you're 75

sitting on a rocking chair in front of your house, would you rather have had a bunch of memories with your friends going to do some wild and crazy stuff or would you like to have an account on

your computer that has big numbers in it?

I would >> mean, that's what I'm saying. If I Yeah, I That's why I do would want to. But like you said, I don't know if it's just awkward things Here's Here's Here's how I get past awkward with my friends. My life has changed. Here's how I get past it with mine. You can take this or leave it, okay? I will tell my friends, "Hey, I want to go do this thing and I had a crazy month last month. I got you." Mhm. And that's it. Yeah. Um Lindsey, so

I saw this on Instagram. Sarah Blakely >> ought to be Yeah. Sarah Blakely, who who's the founder of Spanx, >> Uh-huh. okay? Bill I think she's a bill I think she's a bill I think she sold it for over a billion. Like so she's she's doing great.

Uh her every birthday, every birthday, she I'm sure she has a jet or or rents one, I don't know. But she takes 12 of her best friends, most of them are childhood friends, every year and she doesn't tell them where they're going. She's just like, "Pack warm clothes, pack for cold, bring a passport, don't bring a passport." She just gives them some clues and they all board this jet and she just takes them somewhere every year. >> Yeah.

I was like, "Oh my gosh, Lindsay, I think you should do that." >> Yes. Go have fun and go on as many adventures as you can. >> Like, oh my gosh, go enjoy life, Lindsay. Go enjoy life.

>> your friends.

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All right, let's to Porter in Midland, Texas. Hi Porter, welcome to the show.

What's going on? How are y'all? Hey, we're doing great. How can we help?

Um so, I just at the beginning of the year got a raise. Um not for a huge amount, but just enough to make a difference. Uh and I recently this week just got a

email saying that the raise amount was

uh incorrectly like input it into our like payroll program.

And so, there's actually there was an error and they it's not supposed to be as high as it currently is. And so, they're asking me to um just sign a document saying, "Hey, I approve that decrease and um moving

forward, this is what the rate will be." Yeah. Um Oh, you got you got to pay it back?

I do not. >> Okay. Oh, that's nice. This exact thing happened to me and I actually had to pay it back. It was on it was on a commission I had to pay it back and I was going to say, most companies yeah. I hated it, but it was what it was, right? Pay you, yeah.

>> Yeah. Okay. And that's kind of where most of my I guess question was stemming towards cuz this is the first time this has happened to me, so I didn't know on the email that like it was our payroll person, a higher-up, and then a boss from another branch and my

my boss was not included in the email.

And so, I didn't know I would go right to Have you talked to your supervisor?

I have not and that's kind of where I was like it was such a minor amount, I didn't know if it was worth splitting hairs over or if I should just kind of accept it for what it is. Yeah, how much is it compared to your like what are we talking?

It's just 50 cents an hour less. So, it's not like I said, it's not a lot, but >> Okay. Yeah. >> Um Yeah, I probably yeah.

Yeah, it stinks and I I I always would run this stuff by my supervisor just to make sure there's not in the rounds happening. You don't know what meetings they have all been in that you weren't a part of and For sure. I would always keep my over-communication great.

>> my keep my supervisor in the loop, but I this I don't know, this happened to me and it was a good faith whoopsie, right? It was a good faith, didn't mean for this to happen, and it cost me money every check for several checks to for me to catch up, and it stinks, and it was what it was. And then um I I asked for some confirmation this won't happen again. I got it, and we're same team, so it's all good.

Yes, sir. That makes sense.

Cool. Yep, awesome. Thanks for the question, Porter. Let's go to Alyssa in Toronto. Hi, Alyssa, welcome to the show.

Hi, guys. Thanks. Um so, I'm about to get about 280,000 Canadian, 200,000 US

in inheritance cuz my mom passed away unexpectedly, and so um I'm sorry, Alyssa.

Thank you. Um and I'm just trying to figure out like what to do first.

Yeah. So. Okay. Um what's your financial

situation? Do you have Do you have consumer debt?

I do. So, we have about 90,000 in

vehicle debt, um about 45,000 in taxes

from when my husband worked for himself.

>> $45,000 in back taxes?

Yes. Um and then about $15,000 in credit card

debt. Okay.

Well, the show >> And the caveat to this is we're about to move to Florida from here at the end of August. Okay. Okay.

Um Can I say what I would do? I would What What What's up with the Well, yeah, I was going to say that's the car situation. What's up with the cars?

>> I I would have Like obviously, the first thing you do before you even take a breath is you pay the taxes off and get settled up with the government, right?

And that brings you down to 165, and

I I This is me, okay? Take this for what it is. This isn't like Ramsey gospel.

This is just John. I would have a hard time taking inheritance money from my mom who'd passed away and putting that on depreciating assets like a car.

That's just me.

I would want to sell $90,000 worth of vehicles and be a a good like

if if I if my I would imagine my mom's sitting across the table from me and saying, "Hey, how can I best be a steward of this money?" I can imagine my mom saying, "Well, I'd like to you buy a house or I want to make sure the kids have college." Or like not get the fanciest car you can buy that will be worth 25% less this time next year. Does that make sense? And that's just me, but that's how I would think about it. I would sell those cars and put some money away so you can cash flow your trip to Florida or your your move to Florida.

Yeah. Yeah, cuz I think that the short answer Alyssa is to get out of debt. Use this to get out of debt. That's a beautiful thing for your mom's legacy, but to John's point what what you're paying off kind of sucks.

$90,000 of cars that you can't afford. And Alyssa, you guys aren't great with money. Can I just say that out loud? It's true.

I know that. 100% trust me. >> Okay. So here's my like a clean slate.

I know, but here's my fear. Here's my fear, Alyssa. Is that this money goes and wipes out this debt and nothing has changed in y'all? And then you'll take a loan out to move to Florida.

>> a habits perspective, a behavior perspective, nothing has changed. You have felt zero sacrifice. You have had to do zero hard work in this. You've felt nothing.

It's kind of just a boom boom done.

money is going to pay off this debt and you guys are going to get right back to where you are. So I like John's plan not only cuz it's cars and I hate car debt so much cuz I think it's so stupid.

Not only that, but I think you guys need to have a sacrificial decision within this blessing somewhere. So you can feel something emotionally that's going to help stir and push on the good habits that you guys need to create.

So, I'm curious We You a little bit of time. So I am curious about these cars. $90,000 worth of cars. What what um and there are two cars I'm assuming. What do you owe on each?

Um so, mine is a '21 Wrangler and we owe

about $42,000.

And then my husband's is a '22 Gladiator. So, all both Jeep. Um and we owe about 50 on that one. Okay. Um how much you guys make a year?

Um anywhere from 150 to 300,000. He's

got a base plus commission. >> gosh, y'all have too much car, Alyssa.

Too much car.

Way too much for what you guys make. So,

you guys got >> I'm definitely upside down on my car though. >> Oh, both of you are cuz they're both Jeep products. Yeah, y'all are way upside down. So, yeah. I mean, I I would look to see hey, what what could we sell them for?

And or maybe pick one and do the other.

But you guys you you you owe you own too much car for what you make.

Okay? Because it's going to it's adding up to close to a hundred grand in cars and you guys are at 150.

So, we always say it should be no more than half of your annual income.

So, you're looking at 75 and you guys are over that. So, um

something yeah, something's got to change with the car situation. Do you agree or are you like, "Eh, I don't think we're going to do that." Honestly, like the Jeeps are are at this point part of like our our personality.

And like 90% of our friends um that

actually live in the US are we've met them from the Jeeps like going off-roading and like my Jeep is set up to to go off-roading. >> tell me your Did you tell me they're part of your personality?

Yeah, that's what I just said. Good god almighty. I get A- listen. >> Alyssa! Listen, I've got friends who love Jeeps and they go do all the stuff.

But to say it's like it's become part of our core.

I just Sell it and go get a $10,000 Jeep Wrangler. Yes.

Make that your personality.

Or get a get a Jeep tattoo. Make that your personality.

Did you really say that $100,000?

>> can help, Alyssa. I don't know if we can help. I think we'd be friends, but I don't know if I can help.

across the US. So, I I get it. I feel it. Listen, we're both friends with with George Kamel. His Tesla is part of his identity, and that's the problem.

That's the problem, right?

>> Yeah, Alyssa, I just want I want this

money that you received after something horrific. I know we're joking about it, but for real, to be to be something to

>> to be something of a good of a good legacy. And you guys are you make bad decisions with money and bad decisions with identity. So, like I don't know what I don't know what to do.

I I would I would sell the If I woke up in your shoes, Alyssa, I would use 200,000. I'd pay taxes. I'd pay the credit card debt. I would sell the cars.

I would re-up what's going inside of me and my consumption of life and cars. And I would change my personality. >> Um you know, and I would um cash flow the move to Florida. But if you I I don't think you're going to.

But you know what? We could we could still be friends. If I see you in Florida, I'd still give you a high five, you know? in the Gladiator.

>> And give you a little rubber duck.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

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Our scripture of the day comes from Romans 12:2. Do not be conformed to this

world, but be transformed by by the renewing of your minds that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Rob Siltanen, I think that's how you say it, said people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do.

All right, let's go to K in Dallas,

Texas. Hi K, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you Rachel and Dr. John. Um, I have a question. I have a senior in high school. Um, he has received an offer to play

college sport.

And uh we as his parents think it's a good deal. It would be kind of staying local in our area. But in his mind, um,

he thinks that, you know, going off and playing like for club sport with the same sport would be better. However, that would incur student loan debt. And

um, we've been pretty frank with him like, "If you take this offer, then we could get what you owe pretty much down to a manageable amount without student loan. But, you know, your other route, you're going to have to work and do your laundry and all this other stuff." So, just wondering am I missing anything? Am I, you know, what else is there to help him navigate this choice? The The two It sounds like you're asking two different questions. And so, I think the

first question would be you and your husband taking your son out. What What's

the sport?

Lacrosse. Okay. And saying

it's been our joy, one of our life's big joys, traveling around with you and watching you play lacrosse over the years. And if you're done playing lacrosse competitively, let us know that.

Cuz I've met with countless college students who felt like they Their parents looked at all the years of travel sports and lessons as an investment in college.

And they were playing college sports, which is a full-time committed job. It's a life, right? And they were doing it to keep mom and dad happy.

And it always cratered. And so, if you take him out and say, "If you're done, we will support you and love you, but but if you are going to play, here's an opportunity for you to do this, and college is expensive." And then the second thing So, that's the first one is why doesn't my son want to play sports at this level for the college, etc. Have that conversation, but lead it with we're ready to put a period at the end of this sentence if you are.

And the second question is has to come with you and your husband making some really firm decisions on what you will and won't pay for. And then you lead with that.

Yeah, I don't like I I feel uncomfortable, Kay, supporting the idea of making him go to college because he has a full ride on a sport that he doesn't want to play. I was just talking to someone, and that all they said A ton of research has come out now with college athletes, the amount of depression, things like I mean, it's it's it doesn't look good.

Um and especially if he's not wanting it. Um, so my red flag kind of went up

when he's like, "Mom and Dad, I don't want to do this full-time. I I'm going to club sports grade or like, you know, like intramurals or whatever at some other college. Like that sounds more fun to me." I get that. Now let's figure out how we can make that work financially.

So that means you're probably going to stay in state. You're going to take in state tuition.

Uh, there's a good chance you're going to have to work, maybe get some other scholarships. Like we're going to have to figure out a way to cash flow another

situation cuz it's not this I it's not as black and white as you have to go to the school close to us and get a full ride or you're going to take out all this debt. No, people go through college all the time. >> other ways, yeah. >> Yes, so many ways that he can go to school still debt free, Kay. So. And Kay, I've never said this publicly. I'm about to say this for the first time, Kay. >> Oh my gosh, what what what an honor this

is. >> Well, I just I just want to paint you a picture. I had a 100% full ride

that I walked away from in August

to go to another school for a very small partial scholarship.

And that happened to be the place where I met my wife, met all my lifelong friends, got connected with mentors and friends, and that's the reason I'm sitting here right now.

Wow. >> And so I want to tell you his life isn't over. Mhm. I had a 100% everything.

And I walked away at the very last minute because I wanted to go and do something else.

And quite honestly, to Rachel's point, I was completely cooked on the idea of this being the next for It's already been 4 years of my life. It's going to be the next 4 years of my life, and I just my heart wasn't in it.

Right. And so I think having that big conversation Here's another piece. Do you Do you and your husband secretly want him to go to school kind of buy y'all cuz you like being around him?

I Well, I just think that the coaches are like great mentors, they're But but pretend he's not playing sports. Let's say sports are off the table. Do you kind of want him to go to I I want I am stunning myself that as my son is is heading into the college years, I kind of hope he picks a school next to us.

Cuz I like him. Um they are I mean I do like him. Um but no.

Most days I like him. You know, we're kind of ready, you know, picking up socks and you know, >> Sure. Sure. Sure.

seeing him come in and out and it's hi and bye, but you know, I mean I I'm okay with that idea of him going off. >> Okay, so so be honest about those conversations, but it framing this as putting all of the weight on the to this 18-year-old kid, that's when 18-year-olds make bad decisions and they can walk into a room and someone's going to hand them 120 grand and say make good choices.

Here's the dollar amount we can contribute per month, which means this is what the tuition needs to be." And >> Mhm. if you choose to go to this school out of state, we will love you and we can't wait for you to come home, but our money won't go there.

And then he gets to make grown-up choices for as that they unbelievably allow 18-year-olds to make.

I know. Right?

The logical side is just hard. Do you Do you all have a debt journey?

Sir? Do you all have a debt journey where you all paid off some money?

Yes. And have you all Were you all burdened by student loans, too?

Yes. I I mean, I've paid mine off, but unfortunately my husband still has them.

They're well into our Can I Can I tell you that leading with that level of vulnerability, these things are still hanging around our family?

Yes. >> And maybe it's the reason we haven't gone on big vacations. It's the reason there's been tension in our house. There's a reason your mom and I or your dad and I have fought over the years cuz these stupid things are still here.

Please, we're asking you don't go do this. Yes. Right? So, it's leading with vulnerability instead of preaching at him. Oh, yes. And it's probably a lot of both, but we have kind of backed off the past few weeks just to let him, you know, navigate his own choices, but I just want to make sure we weren't I mean, you did make a good point. >> Yeah. Yeah, I get that.

>> And if he comes back and says, "I want to commit the next 4 years of my life to lacrosse." Amazing. Awesome. And I promise you if somebody's offering him a full ride, they will not be the only ones.

Right. >> Guaranteed. Okay. Okay.

And so, let's find that let's find a place that's going to fit for him if he doesn't happen to want to go to that school right next to you, and we can figure all that out, but like we want it to be their choice, but that choice has to be made inside of boundary of boundary framework cuz this open season for 18-year-olds just to decide where they want to move across the country and quote-unquote live their life. That's so much pressure on an 18-year-old.

>> Yep. And some states are even with even community college, you can go for free.

So, there's just and I don't know what Texas what they're doing, but Um, but but they have tons of programs there. >> Yeah, but so yeah, so he can I think he's going to have a lot of options, Kay, and I don't want you guys to box yourselves in to either he has to get the full ride here or he's going to take on debt. That's not true.

starts off in community college for a year or two uh, and then moves schools

to to something else. Um, whatever it looks like, but yeah, the um,

man, that is a that is a tale that is happening all over America right now. >> yeah. Um, is these kids that get into

deep travel sports early, dedicate their whole half of elementary, middle, high school to something, and then they get and they are burned out. >> Mhm. And they're like, "I don't want to do it." And then they feel the pressure cuz I've heard them say >> Well, mom and dad are like, I put I put 40 grand towards this thing.

>> Yes. Yes. And we did this for the call, you know what I mean? And it gets there. And so trapping them there, that's just that is so hard. And I get the obviously the financial advantage of having a full ride, totally. But also um

yeah, just just their ability to to not just enjoy life for the heck of it at 18, but to have actually a healthy life throughout college not having to hate every day. That's a gift, too. So, thanks, Kay, for the call. I appreciate it. Uh great show, John. Always fun. Thanks to all those in the booth for making the show happen. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 138. Small Steps Lead to Big Change | September 29, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:06:01 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw. and we're taking your calls at88255225.

[Music] Mandy is going to kick us off in Maine.

What's going on, Mandy?

>> Hi. Um, great to speak to you guys. How are you both today? >> Oh, sorry. I said Mandy. It's Mindy. My eyes have failed me today already.

>> That's okay. Um, so my question is, my

husband and I are actually scheduled to be in baby step seven um starting uh off

the new year. Yay. >> Cool. >> I know. I'm excited. Um, but I have a

chronic condition and and actually it's a condition that I ended up in the hospital for about a month and in a coma for like 3 weeks in June of 2022.

And since then, I've really um started to live life a little bit differently.

I've traveled more. Um, and but I do

know that my heart condition is not I'm

probably not going to live to a full life through retirement.

>> Um, which I'm okay with. I I I do well every day and I feel blessed by it. But

my question is, where is the best place

to park our money um as we th go through

baby step seven so that we can get to it

and enjoy it more than um if we were to

push it off to retirement?

>> That's that's a very good question.

>> I can't believe you're so levelheaded and clear-headed. I would be a wreck.

How long have you known about this condition? Obviously, it's been at least a few years. >> I was actually born with it. My parents were told that if I made it to the age of three and lived through a surgery, I'd be lucky. Wow. And thanks to technology, I'm here. >> How old are you now? >> Miracle.

>> I am 47 and um I actually have built my

life around this. I I'm a a nurse and um

I used what I was given as a positive.

>> Wow, that's beautiful. Well, you've you've made it to 47 and you were only supposed to live till three, so I would be very optimistic. Clearly you are uh you're you're living your best life as far as you can live it with the condition you have and I'm really inspired by that. What is the current life expectancy at this point? Have they told you anything or is just like hey you probably won't make it to 65 or 70.

>> It's pretty much um hey you probably won't make it to 65 or 70. Um the

generation before me really didn't make it. I am in that new generation of people that didn't make it. So there's not a lot of research.

>> Yeah. You are like the research at this point. >> Correct. >> I mean that's a miracle. What I mean so

you guys have done really well.

Obviously you're going to be hitting baby step seven. What's your net worth going to be when that takes place?

>> Um so we actually are I realized yesterday that uh through our our our

retirement we are already baby step millionaires. >> Excellent. How much of that is the house and how much of that is in retirement savings?

>> So, um, actually the house is probably

worth 400. We'll have that done by January. >> And our retirement currently is just

over um a million.

>> Nice. So, about 600.

>> Um, yeah, it was between the two of us, we have like 1.2.

>> Wow. >> Oh, wow. That's just in retirement.

>> Yes. Oh my goodness. >> Do you have anything in brokerage accounts or any kind of bridge funds right now?

>> Um, we have savings, but I don't know

nothing in brokerage that I'm aware of.

I don't even know if I know what a brokerage. >> Okay, that's just a non-retirement investment account. And so that would be the solution to accessing funds before you hit, you know, 59 and a half. And so you can, you know, and you can take money out of retirement, just the contributions if it's like, you know, a Roth IRA for example, without penalty.

But I would rather see that money grow. You've already earmarked it for retirement. So I would just set aside, you know, whatever that that I guess call it your a bucket list fund, whatever you guys want to name it, your dream fund, and start putting money in this non-retirement investment account and just let that money grow. and you can park that in a mutual fund or index fund inside of one of those non-retirement accounts and just start parking money there and you'll, you know, at least have it grow with the rate of the market versus a savings account.

>> Okay, that makes sense.

>> We do. We have one that was a very blessed event as well.

>> Wow. Wow. Okay. So, there is I'm asking

because there is uh posterity there. So, I'm thinking about obviously the retirement money is there for you, but the hope is that you'll live off of the nest egg. You know, you will never touch the nest egg, just living off the interest when that time comes. But, uh, George did make a good point about the Roth IRA.

So, that's that's something that could be there if you were getting down to the wire. I mean, I'm trying to think of a situation where it's like, we must take this trip to Italy, you know, and it's like I can't >> Yeah.

Um, I mean, I haven't attached dollars to it, but I do I still currently work full-time. I would love to go, you know, part-time um in the next few years and then travel a little bit more.

>> Yeah. What does your husband make?

Um, my husband makes so um,

honestly he he's getting a pension and

working so I don't know exactly but um,

I was doing ours every dollar and it it we're making good money on a a monthly basis. >> Okay. Give us a ballpark number just so I can help help me understand kind of what we're working with. Is this 10 grand a month? 20 grand a month?

>> Yeah, probably 10 grand a month.

>> Good. >> Okay. I'm just trying to figure out if you just stop working today, could you guys get by now that you don't have a mortgage payment come January?

>> Yeah, I think we could, but I I definitely am not quite ready for that.

I just um >> You enjoy working?

>> I I love my work. I I work in a >> I didn't know if that was holding you back from the these other things that you're wanting to do. >> Because the other thing is, let's say you do live to 65. Mhm.

>> Well, we you don't want to just go, "Well, we accomplished the bucket list in two years and now we're just sitting around." So, I like the idea of you working as long as you enjoy it and that your health allows you to.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I if anything, I would go part-time just so I could travel more. But, um I really do enjoy what I do. >> Awesome. Well, I'll tell you this, your investments, you know, based on what the market has done historically, it'll double about every seven years. So, your 1.2 will become 2.4 four, by the time you are 54 years old.

>> And then at 61, you're looking at, you know, close to $5 million. And that's if you didn't add anything to it. >> Mhm. >> So, I want to encourage you that your retirement, you guys have done so well.

Uh probably even before you had this, you know, you kind of knew what life was going to look like. You guys have just been doing a really good job following the Ramsay plan.

>> We've been trying. We definitely um you know after my event in in 2022 our our

our gazelle intensity went down and we

traveled a little bit more but >> understandably. Yeah. What is your mortgage payment? What are you going to free up in January?

>> Um we will free up um just under 2,000

but we also are putting um you know at least 5,000 or more a month away right now >> towards it. >> You know I really think you know a brokerage is a great idea. It's a great bridge between now and retirement, but it sounds like your husband makes a good income. It sounds like you're contributing, too. And when the time comes to take these trips, it feels like you could really cash flow a lot of it.

As long as you planned it a little bit in advance to say, "Hey, over the summer, here's what we want to do." And if you give yourself, you know, 8 months to save up for it, that sort of thing, it feels like a lot of this is at your disposal monthtomonth as well.

>> Yeah, I like that idea. I mean, you could do some in the brokerage. I would just up the budget line items and go fund money for Mindy, dream fund, travel fund, all of those things. I would up it. And that's the beauty of baby step 7 is you get to choose how you build wealth, how you give. And I would encourage you to do all three. Save, spend, and give with the time you have on this earth. Mindy, we hope it's a long one.

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Well guys, the allnew Every Dollar is here and it's a game changer and we just launched a very exciting and well done premiere on our YouTube channel. So you can see the app in action. Rachel Cruz, Jade Warshaw, myself, we were all involved in the making of what feels like an Apple keynote, but can actually change your life. Instead of like, we have Bit Emojis now, ours is like, "Hey, what if you got out of debt for good facts?" >> So, way better.

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It's already it's gone gang busters. I mean, over 100,000 views in the first day it's been up there and the comments have been wonderful. So, thank you all for checking it out, using it, and changing your life. We love to see it.

>> My favorite line is when you say the margin in the proverbial couch cushions of your life.

>> It is.

>> You got to know what's under those couch cushions. I When you find something under a couch cushion, it is like a magic trick. >> Yeah. It's always like an a fond memory.

Maybe a goldfish that you forgot about.

Not a real life one like the crackers.

>> In our household, I find like rappers, like granola bar wrappers, cuz the kids >> fruit snacks wrappers. >> I thought you were hiding the candy from Sam under the couch so he can't find it.

It's not in the pantry. Sam, don't look there. >> Children, it's in the couch cushions. The proverbial ones. >> The proverbial cushions. All right. Lauren is in Ohio up next. How can we help today, Lauren?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Yeah. How can we help? Um my question my question is about fair pay. Um my coworker and I I'm a senior graphic designer. He is a regular graphic designer which is a step below me. He makes 80,000 and I make 68,000.

>> And I'm wondering how can I discuss this with my manager without throwing her under the bus? >> How'd you find out?

um through discussion >> with him or with some water cooler break talk and they're like what are you what are you making like I'm making 80 and they're like like oh gosh do they know how much you make.

>> Yeah. Just conversation with my coworker. >> Okay. >> Which I know is normally not supposed to happen. >> Well, it's all the rage among the youth is the new salary transparency. We should all be talking all the time about how much we make and like fight and like unionize, you know. So, I get it. Right.

That's exactly what she told me. >> Have you mentioned it?

Have you mentioned it at all to your leader?

>> No, I have not. >> Okay. So, you're just looking for strategy on how to bring it up.

>> And I understand you want to be, you know, cautious and tactful and not be like, well, so and so told me that they make this. >> You know, I think you need to bring it up in a way that's like, hey, like I found this information out and I'm just curious how you guys look at valuing these positions because I've been in this position this long. I'm at this role. What does a growth plan look like?

um you know, is there a reason why I'm I'm behind on that? Or is it just, hey, the market has changed and they're needing to pay more to get new talent?

Like my my guess is that it's not malicious. >> And my hope is that they do the right thing and go, >> yeah, no, we're going to we'll give you a bump. Maybe it's not today. Maybe it's, hey, at your annual review, we're going to relook at this and give you what's fair.

>> And if they if they don't if they treat this callously, I think that's also a sign >> that you need to go elsewhere. If you feel like you deserve more with the role and experience you have, you know, I wouldn't hold on to the grudge and resentment and stay where you are.

>> Okay? >> But there's no it's going to be uncomfortable. I would call that out. Uh and we have a guide on uncomfortable conversations on our Entree leadership side for business owners that I think would also help you.

You know, you're not on the leadership side, you're on the other side, but just opening and say, "Hey, >> I need to have an uncomfortable conversation." And I would leave as much emotion as you can out of it, which is hard. So I would like do your venting privately and then walk in there with a lot of logic >> and not a lot. >> Curiosity.

truth is you've got to as much curiosity

as you can have and as much as uh it's

just I I don't know because the truth is maybe your coworker uh said no on

another benefit to get a bigger to get more money in their pocket. Like there's different ways that people could have negotiated their salary and benefits are a part of that too.

>> True. I'm just saying >> we don't know the full story. >> We don't know the full story and you guys are talking. >> He listen at the end of the day I don't know. I would not put all of my stock in what my coworker is saying. I would give some benefit of the doubt also to your manager. I'm just saying don't come in guns of blazing. That's all I'm saying.

>> Okay. >> Have you been getting raises regularly?

I've gotten one raise in well two raises in five and a half years.

>> Okay. And do you feel like those were fair or do you feel like hey I went from you know junior to senior there should have been a much bigger bump than just like a cost of living adjustment >> that um one of them was cost of living, one of them was a raise. >> Okay. Yeah, I would I would bring it up.

Do you have an annual review coming up soon or like a one-on-one with your leader that you have regularly >> in December? >> Okay, that's a good time to have that.

You could start the conversation now and they might say, "Hey, let's let's punt this to December and we'll have a bigger conversation around it because your comp will likely change by then." Anyways,

>> but you have your feelings are valid.

Let me just say that you're not I don't like, yay, just suck it up and do your job. You're fine. >> I think you have very fair and valid feelings. I just know attacking it with that level is going to feel like entitlement.

>> And I've been there. I have attacked that problem with my leaders going, I just I feel like I should be making more because other people make good. That's just not going to play well, >> unfortunately, in reality. >> Yeah, that's the thing.

I was happy with what I was making until I found out that information. >> Yeah. And that's why the the comparison game of salary, it's it's never going to be like, "Oh, great. We're making the exact same amount.

And that's why that's the downside of these salary transparency conversations.

>> So I think just approaching it with a in a collaborative way, in a curious way of just going, hey, help me understand why this is and what a growth plan would be like. >> And that's that's going to put the ball in their court to say, okay, yeah, that's fair. >> What' you say? >> Oh, I should I should not let them know that I'm aware of your pay.

Correct.

You don't need to say they told me. Uh, but they're probably they're probably going to ask like, "Hey, like where how did that come up?" Because that can also mean, hey, we were quote gossiping. You know what I mean? That can feel like that. So, if I'm the leader, I'm going, "Why are you guys all in the break room?" >> Well, I own that. I' I'd own that and say, "Listen, this is probably information I shouldn't know, but I became aware of it." And I Yeah. In that

way, you're saying, "Hey, you know, you know, we're not supposed to be chatting about this, but at the same time, if somebody just up and tells you something, they just up and told you." So, it's like it's not Men and Black. We can't just, you know, what's the little pin doing? you know, >> but I would also be if you feel like this is the case and they haven't been looking at it and been ignoring it, whether on purpose or subconsciously, I would also be looking for other positions and the job market's tough right now, so it might be, you know, 6 months before you find something that lands.

But if you feel like, hey, it's my time to go anyways, my heart's not in it here anymore, then I would be considering that. But if you love it there, and all all other things aside, you're like, no, I love it.

Okay, that's very helpful. >> How old are you? >> Thank you. >> I'm 35. >> Call us back and tell us what happened or leave the message. Tell us what happens. I want to know to be continued.

>> Yeah, we never know what happens with these conversations. Okay, that'll be a fun report back. Hey, remember I called about that? Well, I got the raise or >> I know, right? >> I found a new job making more. >> Are you hearing this, James?

>> I'm making a note. >> James is making a But I felt this, Jade.

I've been at Ramsay, you know, 12 years now. >> Yeah. >> And I've had six jobs. You've been here 12 years. Holy smokes. >> Yeah. I started when I was a wee little baby boy less. >> I haven't grown physically, but I have grown a lot emotionally, mentally.

>> I can see. Yes. >> You know, and so I feel like I've I know that feeling cuz I've been there. And sometimes it was a legitimate, hey, there were maybe some poor leadership.

Maybe it was a a poor timing. Yeah.

>> But a lot of the times it was just me.

It was the guy inside and I was drinking my own poison, creating a narrative that wasn't true >> about this versus that or me versus >> why I'm not, you know, just this sort of like little man syndrome, fist in the air. >> Do you feel like you were you were do you feel like you fell victim to the little man syndrome? >> Well, I think there's just a level of it's never going to be as fast as you want and you're always going to feel like, well, I deserve more. I work hard around that.

>> And then over time, you look back and you're like, why was I so >> Why was I like this? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I hear that.

>> Just the way you approached it.

>> It's like your attitude towards it makes all the difference. >> Been there. >> Been there, done that. >> I feel for her. I hope it goes well.

This is the Ramsay Show.

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Kiata's up next in North Carolina.

What's up, Kiata? How can we help?

>> Yes, I was calling. Well, you know what?

Thank you so much for taking my call. First of all, >> I was calling because I I finally started listening to Dave Ramsey last month. Yes, I found y'all on YouTube and was like, "Huh, this guy knows what he's talking about. I like this." and I decided to go ahead and pay off my credit card bill. >> Way to go.

>> I took the revolving debt off my credit card bill, went to my local credit union, got another checking account, and put all that debt to come out that checking account. >> Okay. >> Now, I'm watching my credit score go down. Now, keep in mind, I still have school loans that's over $17,000.

Okay? >> Should I put some of that revolving debt back onto the credit card? >> No. No.

No. No. So, you've done a wonderful thing here, which is you found some knowledge that is that was different from the knowledge you had before, right? For the first time, you're hearing some guy say, "Pay off your credit cards.

Pay off your credit cards." And you go, "You know what? What I've been doing has not been working. Let me try what this guy is saying. You pay off the credit cards." Right?

Are you ready?

>> Yes. We would tell you, and I'm telling you right now, you're concerned about your credit score, but you don't need to be concerned about your credit score.

And I'm going to tell you why. The truth is, this is the truth, and I get paid nothing for telling you this, okay? The truth is, you can do with a zero credit

score all of the things that you can do with a high credit score. And if you continue the advice that you heard from Dave Ramsey, which is to keep paying your debt off, right? The truth is eventually the things that were informing your credit score which was only debt right if you keep paying your debt off your debt will be gone. And what will happen also is your credit score will be gone because your credit score is only a deter it's only a debt

measure. That's all it is. It's how much

debt you have, how long you've had your debt, uh what types of debt you have, what percentage of debt you're utilizing of the debt that you have access to.

That's all it's measuring. It has nothing to do with whether or not you kiata actually have money. Whether you kiata manage the money that you have well and kiata has nothing to do with whether you can actually afford something. It is a madeup thing for

banks to get you to borrow money so that they can make money. That's all it is.

And the people sitting next here at this desk have bought houses and lived their whole, you know, majority of their adult lives without credit scores.

So, it's 100% possible. You just don't hear about it. How does that hit you?

>> Oh, that is nice. I did not know that.

>> Imagine you never had to think about your credit score again. Would that free you mentally?

>> Yes. >> That's what's going to happen as you as you become debtree. And likely what happened there is again your utilization went down because you paid off the debt and it's going to stabilize. And as you pay off the debt, it's going to get better.

Might get worse, might get better. And then eventually it's going to disappear once you have no debt whatsoever. And I can tell you from experience, I can tell you from all of my research. I wrote a whole I wrote a whole chapter about this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke, in the credit cards chapter, explaining every objection.

Well, I can't get an apartment. Yes, you can. Here's how to do it. Not that difficult.

Well, I can't get a house. Yes, you can. Here's how to do it. Bada bing, bada boom.

>> Doesn't it sound insane?

>> Yes. And I paid off part of my student loans. So I'm looking at my loans right now and I have four of them left and I paid off one. Good.

>> And when soon as I paid it off, I watched my score drop by 10 points >> because one of it Yeah. Because one of the measures, remember we said, is how many different types of debt you have and how much utilization of the debt because because you went in the opposite direction and went the right way. They went, "Uh-oh. Uh-oh.

She's trying to exit the matrix.

>> And so, yeah.

Say what you were going to say.

>> Yes. Cuz I thought, well, I thought that you have to have like revolving debt in order to qualify for like a house eventually. But to have the credit to qualify for a house, >> you need Here's what you need to h to qual I'm going to tell you the real story. So to qualify for a credit score, yeah, you need debt. But to qualify for a house, it's the same. It's the same process just minus the credit score. So

uh for myself when we did a zero score meaning I did not have a credit score when we bought our first house they wanted to know uh they wanted payubs for the last I think it was 3 months 3 months of payubs since uh I'm self-employed they wanted to see our tax returns uh for a couple of years they wanted to see trade lines which is literally things like cell phones utilities insurance >> I mean >> and then rental history have you paid have you paid rent on time every month for the last 12 months.

>> Yes. >> Boom. >> And that's called manual underwriting.

So the difference between manual underwriting and buying a house with a credit score is manual underwriting.

They're actually looking at your actual money. They want to see what do you get paid? How long have you been earning that money? To George's point, have you been paying your rent on time?

Have you been paying your cell phone and utilities on time? Whereas you could go over to Rocket Money or, you know, whatever and they're just going to look at a three-digit number and they're going to >> computer says, "Yeah, she's good." >> Yeah. And you, Meanwhile, you could have really, you could really not have the kind of money you need and be approved way above what you can handle.

that's how this works. That is that is the truth. And people don't hear that

side. They only hear the credit side.

And the truth is there's more than one way to skin this cat. And the way that we're I I feel like this is a terrible analogy, but I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep keep going. There's more than one ways to skin this cat. And the way we're doing it, there's not as much tears and suffering. There we go. We finished the analogy. I'm right finish it out.

Kat, I'm cheering you on to debt freedom and I encourage you to cut up those cards and stop looking at the score. Are you Do you have like some kind of credit karma app or something or you log in to look at your score?

The credit card company sends me like the little chime thing on my phone like like a little text message. >> And you know what they're going to say? They're going to say, "Hey, we miss you.

Here's a new line of credit." Well, up your line of credit, girl. Where you been? >> Mhm. >> Exactly. I know their marketing. And so, I'm not going to trust a credit card company to tell me what to do with my money cuz they want my money.

>> And Kata, I'll tell you what happened to me. So, uh, as we, my husband Sam, we had at one point we had almost $500,000 of debt. And as we were paying it down, Yeah. uh the credit score was dropping and we had finally paid off all the debt and I was checking my score.

I was going on Credit Karma to check my score and it was still like hanging out like 610. It was terrible. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, when is it going to drop to zero because you're right, you can't do anything with a bad credit score, but with a zero credit score, you're you're winning." And so I was like, "Man, this doesn't seem right." And so finally I went on free credit report. Is it freecreditreport.com?

>> Annualcreditreport.com. >> Thank you. annualcreditreport.com to get the real deal from Equifax, TransUnion, all that.

Credit Karma was reporting that it was low to entice me to get back into debt products. So, please, please be careful.

>> Guess what? That's how they make money by partnering with all the debt companies and lenders to with affiliate links to get you to go sign up for their latest and greatest card. You see how much of a scam this whole system is?

>> Wow.

>> So, I'm going to send you a copy of my book. It'll peel back these layers for you if you'll read it. It's called Breaking Free from Broke, Hang on the Line, and just read the credit cards chapter. If you just got time for one chapter, read that one. And I hope it gives you some hope that you don't need to live this kind of way.

>> I'm going to need the whole book for a house and get stuff in.

>> I'll walk you through all of it in that book and how to do it without a credit score, every single thing you need. And our partners at Church Hill Mortgage, those are the folks who know how to do it. They're the number one in the country when it comes to these no score loans with manual underwriting. Cuz the truth is most lenders are just lazy and they'd rather the computer tell them >> than have a real person look through these documents.

>> They're trying to make as many loans as possible to make as much money. >> And it that's what you said, George, is so true. It is worth highlighting.

That's very possible, but there are plenty of places that do. And we're always going to recommend Church Hill Mortgage because number one, they're in almost all of the 50 states so you can get your loan done. But yeah, it just takes a little All of this, George, is just that little bit of effort, a little more effort, a little more due diligence just to just look under the hood. You actually have to open the hood to look under it.

>> That's a good You know what I'm saying? >> I'll give you one last one. The credit score. It's like watching a juggler and you're like, "Wow, they're perfectly juggling all of this." And you're like, "Yeah, but that looks exhausting." Like, "Yeah, but they're so good at juggling.

>> You lose focus for one second." >> Juggling has no falls out. Unless you're part of a circus, just drop the balls, guys. Live your best life. Enough with the dead.

that enough keeping up with the three-digit number.

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[Music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years. And so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

Protect yourself. Protect your income.

Protect your family.

[Music]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like nobody will work with you. But Y Refi was built for this. They'll help you explore a fresh start. So go to yriefhigh.com/ramsey to learn more. That's the letter y refy.com/ramsey.

Not available in all states. All righty.

Today's question comes from Claire in Nebraska. She says, "I bought a van that I plan to live in full-time. I bring home $30,000 a year and the van was $25,000 which I'm financing at $350 a

month. My rationale for doing this is that I won't be paying rent except for the occasional camping fees. If I add my

$95 a month car insurance, my total monthly payments are $433.

I did borrow money to buy the van, but Dave is not against borrowing money for a mortgage, and I see the van loan expense as kind of being like a mortgage. Am I making a smart decision to set myself up for future success?

Okay. So, Claire, I I'm tracking with you on the idea of, hey, if I'm viewing this as a mortgage, then the debt, you know, wasn't a bad thing. I can kind of get there with you mentally on how you made that transformation. I'm not saying I agree, but I can I can make that transformation with you. I think the bigger the biggest problem that I have with this is and and let me go a step

further. I'm also tracking with you on trying to keep your expenses low. I I respect what you're trying to do there.

Um, my biggest issue with this is it's something that is going to continue to go down in value and it it likely will

be upside down before the time that

you've paid it off. By the time you're ready to trade it in for another van, you're probably going to have the problem with it being upside down. So, for that reason, the fact that it's something that's going down in value versus going up is why I don't like this

deal. And my bigger question, George, for Clara would be, >> what's happening in your life that you're needing to have your to live in your van and not get an apartment or, you know, that sort of thing. >> Yeah. Usually people aren't making that kind of move out of a place of strength, >> right?

>> Sometimes it's, hey, we want to do something fun and wild and we're going to, you know, get the family to live in an ARV. That's that's different. But usually it's I try to justify it because I'm in a bad financial position and this feels like the best move when really it's a shortcut that doesn't lead you anywhere. >> Well, she's not saying there and maybe this is here and you just forgot to ride it.

You know, >> sure, I can get on board with that. You didn't say how old you are either.

There's a lot here that I'd like to know. If you're 65 and this is the move.

>> Yeah. I mean I mean it's Nebraska. Like I'm thinking about winter in Nebraska living in a van.

>> That just scares me for your your health, your mental health, your quality of life. >> So the bigger question is where does Clare want to be 5 years from now? If that's to be a homeowner, I just think we need to focus on getting our income up, getting the car that we can afford today in cash, rent somewhere that you can afford. Uh and then let's focus on

moving up. And right now your biggest expense is an asset that's going down in value. And so that's the difference.

Dave's the only reason we're okay borrowing a mortgage is because very few people are able to do 100% down on a house. Dave would prefer it that way. So we're only okay on a 15-year mortgage on an appreciating asset like real estate.

So I would get out of this while you can while that van is still worth something and just go rent somewhere. And if you need to get a roommate to afford it, that's fine. But I would stabilize your life in that way instead of living in a van for the foreseeable future.

>> Thanks for the question.

>> All right, Christina's up next in Juno,

Alaska. All right, now we're getting adventurous. What's going on, Christina?

>> Hello. It's my two favorite people. I'm so grateful to have gotten through.

>> You're my favorite person so far.

>> A thank you. All right, here's my question. My husband is using our emergency fund as a bank. He's using the

fund as a way to borrow money without a loan. He is paying the fund back. Um but

he's been using it for non-emergency items as well as emergency items. And we've gone down from um 6 months fully

funded down to $1,500.

>> So if anything were to happen right now, it we'd kind of be up a creek.

>> And I know he fully intends to repay the

fund and I used it as well. So, I have to repay the fund. But, um um little backstory on that. Two years ago, our house went through a flood >> and um we lost the floors. Like we have

plywood floors right now because um and we had to cut up all the sheetrock. Um so, we have a whole bunch of house repairs that need to be done.

>> Did insurance not cover the repairs?

>> No, because we didn't have flood insurance. that we we are not we were

not in a flood zone and um the you know

climate has changed and actually we live near a glacier >> that is letting out a copious amounts of

water. It's not something that we could plan on and it's not something people saw in the future >> and so we did not have flood insurance

when the river that we live >> fairly close to um do its thing and

>> but when you have an emergency fund it is for emergencies. It's for when things happen that you did not foresee happening. And it sounds like, yes, to your point, this money has been used for both emergency funds, which would be a green light, but it sounds like it's been used more so for non-emergencies.

So, I have a question. What how much was in there at the six-month point?

>> Uh, 35,000.

>> 35,000. And it's now down to,500. Is that what I heard you say?

>> Correct. >> So, I want to know what types of things has your husband non-emergency things.

What types of things has he been spending this on? And I want to know has it been done in secret or has he been saying hey I really want to do this I'm just going to pull it from the emergency fund and are you like >> you're an accomplice. >> Yeah. Are you like no or go ahead as long as you pay it back. Tell us more about exactly how this is going down.

>> Um the um I have known about every

single time there there no secrets.

>> That's good. >> Um and I have a hard time saying no to

him. >> Okay. And why why is that? Are you just

like people pleaser or is he just like, "Well, I'm doing it anyway." Like, is he just very stubborn or both?

>> I think it's both, honestly. Um, I

have a hard time saying no because I just want him to have everything. But, um, >> are these toys? Give us some examples of what he's used this money for that is not an emergency.

>> Um, fixing up his truck. So, uh, truck parts. >> Okay. >> Um, just bought a new TV.

Okay, listen. >> Um, >> what if we just separated this? Like, what if you had a different fund that was just like the savings fund to buy new stuff? >> Well, be what >> and cash flow it? >> Before we get to that though, >> I tried that. >> Because here's the thing. Before we even get to that, I I want to say something that I'm It's not an insult. I think it's just true. And let me frame this up by saying this is your money, right?

This 35,000, whatever it started, it is your money. And the truth is you can spend it however you want. But both of you said we're earmarking this as an emergency fund. And both of you said that for a reason. You understood either we're working this plan or we understand the value of having emergency funds set aside. Right? So at that point it becomes a personal integrity issue because you've both said we believe that this should be this. And then when you don't uphold it, that's a personal integrity issue to yourself of saying,

I'd rather you just do what George said and say, "Okay, you know what? We've just decided we don't want an emergency fund anymore. We want a truck fund and we want a TV and appliance fund." And then just tell yourself the truth. But this business of saying one thing out loud whilst doing something else here, that is something >> cognitive dissonance, disongruity there.

So, um, to Jade's point, I think we need to do some soularching and have a come to Jesus meeting and say, >> uh, we might need to move this savings to a different account that is less accessible >> so that you're not just dipping in there for everything. >> So, that might be one solution. I don't like it as a long-term solution, but right now it stops the bleeding.

>> That's good. That's true. >> Cuz you're about to have a real emergency. Like that's when Murphy shows up is when you just bought the brand new TV and then your HVAC goes out >> and you got 1,500 bucks and now you're taking out a personal loan to cover the HVAC.

>> And when that happens, that's when you're really going to feel like, dang it, this and you're going to feel like, man, this is my fault. I didn't keep my promise to myself and now because of that, here we are. Whereas if you can at least do what George said and say, okay, this is the slush fund money. This over here is the emergency fund money.

We'll keep this much in the EF fund.

>> Yeah, I would move I would move it to a different savings account. You can check out fairwinds.org/ramsey and they've got a smart bundle for our fans and they have a save smart savings account with high yield. It's awesome.

That might be a good temporary fix. But ask yourself these three questions. Is it urgent? Is it necessary? Is it unexpected? If it's not a heck yes to all three of those, do not touch it.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by my co-host Jade Warshaw. Open phones at88255225.

You call us up, we'll help you transform your life. Donna is in Ontario, Canada.

What's going on, Donna?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um,

I'm 63 and retired and my husband um is

a little bit younger than me, but he'll be working for maybe another three years. It's a second marriage for both of us and we both have two adult children. Um my husband

funded my stepdaughter's dental school

with our heliloc on our home and cottage

for $600,000.

>> Wow. >> And um so now um I'm a little nervous

about this because it changed a little bit from the beginning. the beginning she was supposed to um we would fund her

four-year um dental school and then she

would graduate, get a job and pay us go to the bank and get a loan and pay us back. Um but then she did another two years. That's why it's 600,000 in total.

And >> why did she do another two years?

>> Uh to be a specialist >> and you guys paid for that no problem.

Yeah, during COVID we um re-evaluated

our cottage so we could borrow more money on that one. Um so it's a total of

600,000 on our home and our cottage. But

now um it looks like my husband wants to

turn this into a a mortgage because of

the savings in the interest rates and then the payments will also help pay down the principal faster.

And now he's looking at buying life insurance to pay extra to buy life

insurance while he's working in case he

dies. That that money would be used to

pay off her debts so that he said she

doesn't have to deal with me.

>> What happened to the plan of her graduating and taking on the loan from

you guys?

>> Um because he they didn't have the right information. um she's working in the States and she um she's not a US

citizen, >> right? But I I >> and she didn't >> I understand um I'm not saying I agree with the plan, but wasn't the plan that she would then take out her own $600,000

loan and basically give you guys the cash so you were free and clear. Wasn't that what happened there?

>> Um yeah, that was the original agreement

that I agreed to. Um, but it wouldn't have been 600. Probably would have been 400,000 because it would have been only uh the four years. >> But she chose to do the extra two.

>> She she >> What was the agreement there? >> Yeah. >> Um there nothing had changed because she was still in school.

>> But did she say, "Hey, I'm going to do these extra two years. I'll cover it through the future loan I get." Or was it, "Hey, we'll cover the extra two years. You go have fun." My husband said that we would cover the the um total.

>> So you guys are on the hook for 200.

She's on the hook in theory for 400.

>> No, in theory she's on the hook for 600.

>> Okay. And I'm saying >> keep paying >> what happened >> paying us back. >> Okay. But I'm saying did she do her part of the plan which was now when I graduate I'm supposed to go get this loan for 600,000 and pay back mom and dad. What happened there?

um because um she a bank will not give

her a loan because >> she's she would >> so a Canadian bank won't give her a loan because she works in the States.

>> Well, because she doesn't have her green card yet and I don't know if the bank would say we'll give you $600,000 so you can pay off your parents. I don't think >> is she making enough to pay the heliloc payment?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Is she doing that currently?

>> Yes. Okay. What's the payment every month?

>> Um, sorry, I don't have the pictures here in front of me. Um, the, um, interest rates

are, um, about 4.95

on the house and 5.45%

on the cottage. And if she was to turn it into a mortgage, it would be um,

a savings of about $3,500 a year.

>> Oh, a year. Okay. So, like 300 bucks a month is what we're talking here to do all this work. Does that include all the fees to make all this happen?

>> Um, there would be no fees.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, >> because we paid off our mortgage. So, >> it's not like a life-changing amount of money saved here and it may make it more complicated because now it's all rolled up into your mortgage versus separated out. So, it's clear how much is hers and what's yours?

>> Yeah. We don't have a mortgage. We have no debt. Everything is hers. The only

thing is is it locks into

it's now all of a sudden it's become uh a long-term commitment.

>> Yeah. That I would >> versus the line of credit which is the heliloc. I would >> I want you to rephrase that. You said you don't have debt. You guys signed on the dotted line for the 600 grand, did you not?

>> Yes. >> So if she skipped town and said, "Good luck. I'm not paying it." It's on you guys. I want you to remind you the risk is all on you right now and there's no risk on her part. >> And so while that's happening, she's living a good life cuz she has no risk.

As long as she makes the payments, you guys are happy. But I want this to get transferred to her as soon as possible.

>> And that's what I would like too. But um

my husband seems to want to take care of her. Um and he seems to be okay.

>> What's your net worth >> this debt? >> Um I think it's 1.2 2 million

>> 1.2 >> property >> and what's left the the cottage just has the 600 grand. Like was it paid off before you took on the loan?

>> Uh we just paid off our mortgage uh a couple months ago. So um >> Okay. >> The um the heliloc on the cottage is um

275,000 and then the heliloc on the

house is 325,000.

So, we're going to pay off the um lower

the lesser loan first and turn that into a mortgage for 275,000.

>> Yeah. I know in Canada it's different with mortgages and it resets every 5 years. Is that right? >> Yeah. And like a term Yeah.

>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, if the interest works out in your favor and you want to save the 3500, I think that solves one problem. It puts out one tiny fire, but there is a much bigger fire here, which is the 600,000 >> pound gorilla on your backs.

Yeah, I'm I'm a little worried about it.

My husband doesn't seem to be. Um

>> I actually think that right in this moment, that's the bigger problem than the 600,000 because as long as you guys aren't on the same page, not not much is

going to be done to solve it because he's okay with it. And so something's got to happen to where you guys either both agree, you know what, this is a gift and we're paying it off or this is not a gift and we're going to be very serious about finding a way to transfer the risk from us to the daughter. Which

I got to I just got to say, um, it's

interesting to me how this played out because you're feeling this weight of this $600,000, you know, like this is not good debt to have. Um, did you know

that did you have a debt? Were you averse to debt before you did this?

Because it's weird that you would want to transfer this burden of debt onto a child or to a kid. She's grown now. I mean, she's out of school, but I mean,

my point is debt is not good for anyone,

>> especially someone who wants to retire in 3 years while you've already retired.

It just puts you guys at risk that he's going to have to keep working longer or you might have to sell the cottage if this doesn't play out perfectly, which it already hasn't, let me remind you.

So, there's just a lot of risk here. I want to get this hot potato out of your hands as soon as possible. But, if you want to refinance and save some money in the meantime, be my guest. Good luck, Donna.

[Applause]

[Music]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I have awesome friends. I got a great faith and I have an amazing wife and family. I've also got two PhDs worth of information about how to be well. And yet, the times that I've spent with great therapists over the years have made all the difference for me. The right therapist can change everything about your mental, emotional, and relational health. And this month, my friends at BetterHelp are shining the spotlight on the therapists, the people who truly make the world a better place.

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[Music]

Hey, if you're enjoying the Ramsay show or you ever have, do us a quick favor.

Hit the like button. Hit the subscribe button. Hit the share button, the follow button. Just hit all the buttons. It really helps us out. It tells the algorithm that you're enjoying this and someone else might, too. And that helps us spread some hope. Appreciate you guys doing that. All right, Jade, what do you got for me?

>> You were supposed to set it up in a better way than this. >> I got no setup. Jade said, "Hey, I want to do something." And I went, "Jade, it's your show. I'm just living it." >> No, you were supposed to talk about TRS Live. And then I was going to segue on that. >> Well, that's true. Do the people know? All right, we're doing the Ramsay show live on the road. It's already sold out.

We've got Chicago and Orlando on September 30th and October 2nd. And we're pumped to hit the road and see what happens in a live environment. >> And it's a fun combination like your day

your the Chicago is different than Orlando. >> Yes. Chicago will be myself, Rachel Cruz, Ken Coleman, and then two days later we'll be in Orlando with Jade Warshaw and Dr. John Deloney.

>> That's good. I'm excited. >> And me. I'll be there, too. >> Okay. So this is my bad segue for we were in so here on campus we have a an office that all the personalities are in and we were in there talking and somehow we started talking about the Lion King the movie Disney >> and we were saying if

we were playing those roles who would we

be >> oh >> and so Ken got all hung up that he should be Rafiki.

>> Oh. >> And I was like oh okay even though I kind of saw you possibly being Rafiki.

And then we were talking about Scar and I said John is definitely Scar. >> John is Scar. Yeah. He's got that dark humor. >> Yeah. And so we asked >> Villaness chat GPT to tell us if we were

>> if Ken should be.

>> Yeah. Who's >> I feel like Ken is Timone.

>> Interesting that >> I wanted to be Timone. You got Timone energy too. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to tell you what chat GBT said. Okay.

>> Of course. Mufasa Dave, right?

>> Ken Coleman Rafiki. Oh, good.

>> It says that he's full of wisdom and guidance. That's what I was going to say. >> Calling and purpose and a little eccentric at times.

>> Okay. George, you're Simba.

>> What? >> George, it says the younger energetic leader. Uh, he's the leader in training who's finding his place in voice.

>> That's beautiful. And that means that Dave Ramsey is my father, >> which >> listen, >> there we go. The parallel universe.

>> That's different. Rachel Cruz is Nala.

I'm not surprised by that. >> That makes sense. Um, John Deloney, Timone. >> Oh, that may. Yeah, okay. I could see that. >> So, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I'm thinking I'm going to be Scar.

>> Yeah. Who did you get? >> I'm Pumba.

>> Wow, they did you dirty with Pumba.

>> Fun loving, approachable, and totally authentic. She helps people feel safe being themselves and also being a young wartthog. All right, moving on.

>> You lost me at the wartthog, but everything else was accurate. >> He is, right? Isn't he a wartthog?

>> Yeah. >> All right, just a little >> That's beautiful. Just a little fun segment there. >> That was fun. Yeah, we could do the redo the live action movie and cast us and see what happens there. >> Listen, a lot could go wrong.

>> Yeah, I don't want to see Deloney and Dave, you know, go at it. That's That's a scary premise.

>> Well, if you're listening online, drop in the chats who you think it should have been. >> That's so fun to I I thought I would be like one of the hyenas. >> I thought you were going to be >> laughing in the corner. >> Remember Zazu the bird?

>> I thought you could have been him. So, >> yeah. >> Anyway. >> All right. That was fun. Thank you for that.

>> Can't wait. Moving on.

>> Keith is waiting in Georgia. He's going, "What are they doing?" I got a real question to ask you. >> I know. >> Keith, what's going on, man? Welcome to the Ramsay Show. >> Hey, thank you. Thank you guys for having me. Um, >> uh, so full disclosure, I'm a pretty big ball of nerves right now. I've never really >> Oh, dude, it's just me here. You couldn't You couldn't have chosen better for a day to be nervous. I got you.

>> Got it. Uh, so I'm I'm hoping I I can get a nudge in the right direction. Um, so I'm in the process of trying to find

a a property to move into with me and my wife as a rental. Um, the only issue I'm

running into is um I did have a a home

that um was forclosed on about 3 years

ago and um since then I I kind of got

knocked down again with uh losing my job

where actually the location I had closed. So, it it was uh I didn't really

have a choice in that.

>> And um I I kind of took it upon myself to go to school, get my CDL, and um I've

been doing that now for about 6 months.

Um but uh my credit's not going up as as

high as I want it to. And um I I I'm

trying to see what what the best method

is going to be to to just getting into a

apartment or a home because I mean to be honest right now me and my wife are are staying in a a camper. So >> I'm I'm kind of getting stir crazy.

>> What about your wife? What is her financial picture as far as her credit look like? >> Uh she's she's not much better off. So when when we first got together, she didn't really have any credit. Um, and then she actually ended up losing her job due to a similar situation around the same time I did. And this was November of this past year.

>> So, uh, her credit was slowly climbing.

And then, um, when that happened, we kind of got behind and her credit's actually a little bit lower than mine.

>> So, um, you guys are both working full-time now.

>> Um, I'm working full-time. My wife is working part-time currently. Um she did

recently just get a job offer um to uh

work as a director for a daycare and she'll be starting that in November which is good news. >> Yeah, that's great. Um >> what will you be earning once with you with your CDL and once she becomes director at that daycare?

>> So I've been working now with my CDL since March. Um I'm currently earning

about 60,000 per year.

>> She will be earning roughly 35,000.

>> Good. Okay. So, really the big problem here is you're feeling like the credit score is keeping you from getting in that apartment to which I'd say, you know, if if I were in your shoes, I'd try to avoid kind of that big box apartment system and >> the corporate ones where they just run it on the computer and they go, "Well, it didn't go through. Sorry, you can't rent here." I would be looking for more of like a landlord or an actual human being who can sort of look at the whole picture.

And I would just be upfront with them when that runs it. You're going to say, "Hey, if you run the credit, here's what you're going to find. We had a foreclosure. Here's where we're at now.

Here's our income. We make about 100 grand a year. We have enough to cover the, you know, they might require a higher deposit. There might be some stipulations, but if you look around long enough, you're going to find a real human being who will allow you to rent." >> I see.

Um, and then the other thing that's kind of got me super anxious is, you know, when when we're ready to purchase a home and, you know, again, in a few years, I'm I'm just so worried about how that foreclosure is going to affect me and what kind of hurdles I'm going to have to go through at that point.

>> Uh, we do. Um, so we have about 10,000

um in auto loans and then there's about another 10,000 in collections currently.

Okay. So, you have a ways to go by the time you're cleaning that up, get the fully funded emergency fund, save up a down payment. That's going to be a few years from now.

>> Okay. >> And the credit Well, that foreclosure will likely stay on your credit report for about seven years from my research.

Does that sound about right? >> That sounds right. It's kind of in that way it's like a bankruptcy. It'll follow you around for a while, but eventually it's going to let go of you and you'll be able to kind of have that fresh start.

But your credit score should improve much faster than that. So, as you pay down this debt and you get rid of it, that's going to help to improve it. Um, and within probably two years, which is a good timeline for you guys to get rid of the debt, get the emergency funds, and work on that down payment.

Um, and it might even disappear by then, which could actually work in your favor, and you can go through the manual underwriting process at that point, especially if you've had 12 months of rental history, which hopefully you'll have by then. So, I know it feels like, man, I mean, life has truly beat you guys down. The job losses, the foreclosure, I can just feel that you've lost your mojo. I just want you to know that 3 years from now, you're going to be in a completely different place.

But in the moment, it feels like this is forever. >> Like, how are we ever going to crawl out of this? >> Yeah.

struggle the last few years. It just feels like I'm expecting another something else, you know, more bad news to come around the corner. And that's part of why I got my CDL because it's like, well, at least I have this, you know, I have a guaranteed way to work and, you know, even if the job shuts down, I I'll work somewhere else. It's not a huge deal.

So, that that's given me a little bit of hope, but >> yeah, >> just given the past, I >> Yeah, your income is going to create that stability, and that stability will create a foundation for you guys to get out of this situation. So, it's all going to change, man. 2026 is going to be a very different year for you guys. is I'm rooting you on to get rid of the debt.

I'm going to send you our allnew Every Dollar. It's going to help you guys find the margin, give you recommendations, coach you along the way, and I can't wait to see the progress you guys make. Keith, I'm rooting for you, man.

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Anna is up next in Spokane, Washington.

Anna, welcome to the Ramsay Show. How can we help today?

>> Hi, I'm so happy to be speaking with you guys today. Thank you. >> Yeah, we're happy as well. What's your question? >> Um, yeah, so I'm kind of having like a midlife crisis. Um, >> how old are you? >> I'm 50 50 years old. My kids are grown.

>> Um, so I was a single mom for 23 years.

I've got um 18 credit cards. I've got zero debt, zero retirement. I have great credit score, no mortgage, no house. Um,

I do have 25 grand in savings. Um, and I

have a good car. Um, my problem is that

um I when I was raising kids, I never made more than 34,000 a year. Um, when

my kids were older and um COVID happened

um and the job market dropped, I just kept going and getting a better better job and they were just taking warm bodies at the time, right? And so I'm now in a job where I almost make 70,000 a year. >> Awesome. >> Now that the job market has switched again, um the company I'm in a tech company as a financial analyst, they're starting to lay off people.

>> Um we just laid off seven people last week because they could not do their jobs. They were um uh what's the word? I'm not able to, you know, not smart, basically not growing with the job. And I'm afraid I fit that category. I'm afraid I'm going to get laid off. My job is incredibly stressful. Um I wake up in the middle of the night with panic attacks.

>> Oh. >> And so, um I did a lot of research in

what kind of job I could um get with my

type of hobbies, things that I do really enjoy to do, not sitting on a computer.

Before you go to that, can I ask a question about your your anxiety and about you being afraid that you're on that list >> before you go to the job search?

>> Um, is that what you're hearing back in your reviews that you're not is that what you're consistently hearing is that you're not quite hitting the mark? >> Well, I was so last week um when we laid

off those seven people, that's when I was kind of told. So, it was kind of like, hey, we laid off seven people last week. And I was like, "Oh no, you know, why?" >> And they said, "Well, they were not meeting the mark and um >> they're underqualified for the job." And it was kind of like a you better like catch up or do something, right? But

what did they say qualified in a >> they said so it I want I what I'm trying to find out is if you're just fearful or if something truly was said to you of hey Anna we're making layoffs for people who are not you know up to par and you're fitting that list and so we don't want you to be one of those people but right now you're headed down that direction. Have they said something clear to you like that?

>> Not clear but okay >> I that was the undertone of the situation. Understood. Okay. And that's what's giving you the anxiety.

>> What would it take for you to become qualified, quote unquote?

>> I don't know. I mean, I, you know, I

worked in um admin assistant for a really long time and I kind of, you know, I got good in Excel and I worked my way up in that. Um, but I I've kind

of always kind of switched and bounced around in my career. I've never really had a career. Um, I I before COVID, I

actually became um a certified yoga

teacher. I I work in hospice before an admin and um I became a full-time yoga

teacher. I owned my own business doing indoor plants and aquariums >> and I um worked as a hospice caregiver.

>> I was happier then than I'd ever been in my life. >> So, you're saying this life is this job sucking the life out of you?

Yes, absolutely. I don't sleep. I don't have because I'm so >> If you want to move on, if you want to move on because the job's sucking the life out of you, that's very different from I feel like I might not be making

requirements and I'm scared I won't be able to meet these requirements. Cuz then I'd say, hey, >> it's both. It's both.

>> Yeah. Even if you got the requirements, you're still like, I don't want to be doing this. And so, for those reasons alone, I'd go look for something else.

But I wouldn't just up and quit today. I would keep the stability you have while looking for the next thing.

>> Yes. And so, and that's where, you know, I have a lot of conflicting information from advice from other people. And that's why I was calling you guys today cuz I, like I said, I I did a lot of research on what type of job I could get that, you know, pays anything. And, you know, then I'm looking at like getting student loans if I wanted to become like a a OTAA or a physical therapist assistant.

um you know that maybe I can you know the top end of that is 70,000 so I' maybe start around 50,000 which I don't

want to go down in salary >> why you can't really afford to at this point you told us you have no retirement whatsoever >> yeah retirement it's all up to you

>> yeah my rent keeps going up >> um so what I did find was a um estate

manager or like a live-in nanny >> type situation where I could actually um

start at around 80,000 a year and have all of my living expenses covered.

>> Amazing. You could shovel money into retirement at that point. >> And you like kids you like kids >> other people's kids? >> I do. I not only do I love kids, but I

also um have a son on the spectrum. Um

and you know, it was funny because I thought, well, maybe I'm not really qualified to do that because I don't have like an early education childhood certification or something. Well, >> you do have 23 years experience of raising kids and also having, you know, a kid with special needs or >> I'd rather that than somebody with a piece of paper. >> Yeah. I think when I think you're so focused on what am I qualified for, I want you to start focusing on what am I wired to do and what lights me up cuz we I couldn't care less if I'm hiring you as my estate manager.

What's your resume?

I'm like, how are you with my kids? Can I trust you? Mhm. >> It's all about integrity and work ethic and would you treat my family and my house like I would >> and so I think this is a great next step for you and even if it's not the thing for the next 10 years, it sounds like you're just fired up about making that shift. And is this like offer on the table? You could go take it tomorrow.

Um I it's not but I did you know the

other thing is I live in Spokane Washington and my mom is in the Seattle area and she's getting older so I'd like to be closer to her but it's a lot you

know the living expenses are a lot more there. Yeah. Um but I did find a agency

that you know um helps you as a nanny to

find a job and there are several jobs highpaying jobs in Seattle area >> that are 80 grand living >> expenses covered. >> Yeah. >> Great. >> I would I'd be exploring that getting interviews putting your best foot forward. >> Yeah. They even provide like a car and insurance and wonder health insurance >> a phone. So, um I would just have, you

know, clothing basically as my expense and then of course like seeing my kids, you know, um maybe I'd fly them over for

>> I think you've answered your question.

>> It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into you've you've kind of like started the dreaming phase of it, which is Yeah, I think you're really into this. The only caveat, yeah, is don't quit your current job until you have the offer and a start date. Like you know that this other thing is happening. Otherwise, you could really uh jack yourself. >> And have they been doing severance packages with the layoffs?

>> They have. >> Okay. That'll give you even more breathing room. If it does happen, there's a silver lining there that you've got some cushion.

>> Yeah, I do have a three-bedroom home. I, you know, I need to get rid of everything. And then that's my next step is like trying to decide what to keep and and what to put in storage. I already found I can get a storage unit for about 2,000 a year.

>> Why even keep the storage unit? I'd be on Facebook Marketplace this entire weekend just listing stuff.

>> Yeah, it's hard for me. I I you know, I have some sentimental things I'm attached to and I think mostly it would just be like keeping Christmas decorations when my kids are little.

>> Yes, keep that. >> Um >> Yeah. So, I mean it's it wouldn't be much, but um just something too because my my goal would be if if this does work out um that you know maybe I would buy

like a tiny home or something in four or five years and that way I could if I don't you know do that then I would say okay the storage unit has to go kind of put a time limit on like you know okay kids you know take your Christmas decorations or um you know or if I had a

tiny home then I could you know certainly move all my things into my

home. Um, yeah. So,

>> I like the idea. I like where you're headed. >> I like the idea. You've got a clear idea for what you want to do being a living nanny.

It provides the income above what you were earning before. And to George's point, it gives you the time to uh start investing 15% and you have the goal of one day, yeah, I want to put a down payment on a house and I want to pay live in a paid for house. I don't know if I'd go for a tiny house, but you get the idea.

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All right.

Serious question. Hard question. If you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on? How would they pay the mortgage?

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All right, Dalia is up next in Chicago.

What's going on, Dalia?

>> Hi. Um, so I'm just calling to see about

um if you guys have any ideas on how to find money for an adoption.

>> Oh, wow. >> All right. What led you guys to this spot? >> Yes, my husband and I have been married um almost 10 years. We have two biological daughters. Um before we had

them, we had been told we might not be able to have kids. And that was something we kind of prayed about and really felt God put on our hearts um to grow our family through adoption. So, we had our two >> bio kids and then still through all of that, we've really felt like this is something God wants us to do.

>> Wow. >> And um yeah, so it's been about 5 years we were on the waiting for a match and then just about a month ago, we got a

call that we got matched with a birth mom >> and she's due Yeah, she's due in the

next like week.

>> Oh gosh. >> So, this is coming fast. I don't know.

So, you'll have to educate me a little here. What's it cost? Um, what's it what's it cost to adopt?

>> Oh, you broke up on us, Dalia. Right at the juicy part. Are you with us still?

>> Hello. >> Okay, there we go. Over here. Did you hear my question, Dalia?

>> Yes. So, we're right about the average, which is 40,000.

>> Okay. And this is in two weeks. So, what

do you have laying around moneywise?

Like, what do you what assets do you have? >> Yeah. So, we have our house, our home.

Um, we still owe about 320,000

on it. Um, and then we had our savings, which we had about 30,000 or like 20

27,000.

>> Um, so we paid already 12,000 like

deposits that have been um requested as

you know, the date gets closer.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, we've paid about 12 of our own savings. And then we had a big sale at church and raised about four. Um,

and then a few family members giving us some money as well. So, we're about at I

think close to like 20 that we still need. >> Okay. And how much do you have now?

>> Yeah. >> Like in things you can liquidate that you could use toward this?

>> I I mean other than the house, I don't know. >> So, you have nothing in savings? I thought you said you had 30,000 in savings. >> Yes. So, we have about like 16 and a

half left because we also have to pay.

She's in a different state than us. So, we have to pay to fly there, stay there for 3 weeks at least for all the legal

process. So, that's like Airbnb, car rental. So, that's been coming out of our savings as well. >> So, let me let me recap this to make sure I'm I'm tracking with you. Did you tell me it was like forget the the Airbnb stay stuff, but just the adoption? You said it's 40,000. And did you tell me you've already paid 12, so you only owe 28?

>> Yes. And then we've raised some money through church and family.

>> Well, let's walk walk slowly with me.

So, you said 4,000 from church. So, now you're at 24. Is that correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And then we still haven't touched your Did the 12,000 come from your original 27 that you had saved? Yes.

>> Okay. Okay. Now I'm trying.

>> How much are you down to across your checking and savings accounts?

>> Should be 15.

>> Yeah. Like 165 I think around there.

>> Okay. So we're about 10,000 off, right?

Does that sound right? >> What? Yeah. What do you still owe versus what you have?

>> So we still owe the 20 20,000. About 20,000. >> Okay. And you have 16 and a half.

>> $3500 I had. Okay.

That's That's the math we're trying to solve right now is we're $3,500 short and we need this money in two weeks, you said, or when is it actually due? Is all of it due in two weeks?

>> Yes. So, it's all due when the papers are signed and we because that's all we really have. Obviously, if we have no choice, we will. But we're trying to figure out if there was like a loan or something because we obviously have, you know, small kids and we're a young family and we want to make sure we have um emergency fund, >> right? >> And you have a community around you.

You've got friends, family, church, and you've tapped into that a little bit.

>> You said there's a GoFund there's a GoFundMe.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And Okay. So,

so I I would go to all extents to not

take out a loan for this. And

>> I don't know if that's you guys reminding people of the story that you're trying to accomplish here with this adoption through the GoFundMe. I you know, and trying to kind of amp that up a little bit. >> Now that there's a timeline, I think people get more excited whether it's a child or anything else on the horizon when you go, "Guys, we've been placed.

I'm sending an update to everyone I know. I'm writing letters to my neighbors, to my church, to my family.

We are on the cusp of this and we are so close to our goal, but we're just so short. I feel like my heart just goes, "Oh my gosh, I want to give. I want to be a part of this." Like, we're at the finish line here at the marathon.

>> So, I would do everything in my power to do all of that while doing side hustles for the next two weeks, while selling everything I can that's not tied down.

>> Everything. >> Like, act like this is the $3,500 debt that must be paid in the next two weeks.

>> Yeah. cuz this I mean really what's on the this gets you your baby, >> you know? This gets you your family member. So I'm like nothing's off the table. I mean I'm not selling the house, but nothing's off the table. You know what I'm saying? Like so I I would go ham on this. And then there's also I don't know, we didn't ask you your income, but how much margin do you have at the end of every month >> after you've paid your bills and everything? >> About 2,000.

>> Okay. So that's I would be saying this whole Airbnb thing and bringing this can't this needs to cost us $2,000 like this stay we need to figure this out.

Does somebody have a house that can let us stay crash there or use their Airbnb for free because of what we're trying to do here. This ain't no vacation. We're trying to get our baby home. This is when you take to social you take to social media and you make sure everybody knows this story and what you're trying to do and you're on a tight time crunch and see if people get generous and I'd

be doing everything so that I don't have to take out debt because this is something that's supposed to be exciting and joyfilled and debt just has a way of putting a damper on stuff like that. >> 100%. Yeah. I can't in good faith tell you just go take out a loan.

I think it's going to make it all the more sweet and joyful when you guys cash flow this whole thing and you write that final check and you just get to go home and focus on that baby. >> Yeah. Listen, send me the GoFundMe. Put me on.

>> DM it to Jade.

>> Okay. Thank you. >> Nobody else though. Don't get any ideas, guys. Don't be DMing Jade all your GoFundMes. >> Listen, I remember it's Dalia from Chicago. >> If you're not Dalia, keep scrolling.

Okay.

>> That's so exciting. We're so happy for you, Dalia. This is a very exciting time and you guys have done a great job getting prepared and what a wonderful thing. You know, the the world is it's a dark place. Then you get calls like Dalia and they're wanting to adopt.

>> They had two wonderful bio kids and they're going, you know what, we just want to >> get in there, >> take care of another little baby who might need some love and support.

>> So good. >> A beautiful thing. And >> yeah, a calling >> for 100%. And uh I would be tapping back into that church.

I mean, I would have zero shame at this point. >> Zero. No shame in that game. There's this is not a selfish thing you're doing.

>> No, that's why I said take to the interwebs. Get in there. Tell the story people. >> I'd be finding Facebook groups, Reddit threads.

I'd be tweeting, exing, Instagraming, >> and the timeline, too. Like, we only have 10 days left. Like, yeah, >> we're going to get this thing done, D. I can't wait.

>> Thank you for sharing the story. Rooting for you. All right, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back, so make good decisions.

Until then, don't go anywhere.

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Heat.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw this hour and the number to call is88255225

if you want to join the conversation and pose your question for the good of the group and for the good of America. Chris has chosen to do that. He's in Washington. What's going on, Chris?

>> Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate it. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> So, I my wife and I, we're new parents.

Uh well, relatively new. Our son's 9 months old. Um super excited about that.

Uh we made the decision to have her stay at home uh because daycare was too expensive. and we're just trying to figure out um if you guys have any tips and tricks to uh you know managing our money going forward and making sure that we're setting ourselves up for success in retirement and setting him up for college and all that good stuff.

>> Yeah. So, what was she making before she

decided to stay home?

>> She was making about 75,000 a year.

>> Okay. And what do what do you make? Uh,

I currently make 110 roughly annually and then I have a side business that I run that brings in anywhere from 20 to 45 a year. >> Okay. So, we'll just say that you're at 130. You feel good about that?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And so, have you guys done a new every dollar budget with this 130? Cuz how much does that allow you to take home every month?

>> You know, that's that's been really really new for us. Um, and so, you know,

if I had to put a number on it, I mean, our we have our mortgage, we have no other consumer debt. Um, we've done a really, really good job. Got all of our vehicles paid off and everything like that. >> Um, and so, you know, our mortgage is roughly 2,400 a month and then living expenses, you know, at another, you know, 300, 350.

>> Yeah. I don't think your mortgage is going to be the problem. I think >> some clarity.

>> I'm wondering, it sounds like you have like a little bit of regret, like should we have done this? Things feel tight.

So, where is that coming from?

>> Yeah. I just I'm I'm so um analytical

when it comes to like looking at our budget and we've, you know, both worked really really hard coming out of, you know, roughly $95,000 in student loan debt, you know, over the past three years. And um you know, we've we've just

worked really really hard and I don't ever want to put our family in a place where we're in in need for money, you

know what I mean? And um we've done a really really good job of that. We have a bunch of money put aside already, you know, and um >> so you're following the baby steps to a tea.

>> Yeah, pretty I mean I would say so.

Yeah. >> You said that, but you didn't answer the question when I said how much you're bringing home every month.

Oh, yeah. I mean, we bring home probably

uh let's see, uh 40 now 6800

a month roughly.

>> So, I'm going to challenge >> after >> I'm I'm going to challenge you to for your own good because you described yourself in one way and don't get me wrong, it probably was the way that you were before you had an eight-month-old.

Um you said, "I'm very analytical and I'm really on this." But the truth is right now you're actually not on your numbers. You're kind of guessing at them. And I have a theory that the reason that you're feeling that uh that tightness or that feeling of like you don't like the way your money is feeling. I think it's more because you don't know exactly what's going on and you don't have a clear path and plan for it.

That's why I asked about your your every dollar budget because if you look at that tonight with your wife once the baby's down >> once you guys have, you know, had something to eat and you say, "Okay, we're going to look at every dollar tonight. We're going to plug in our numbers. We're going to log on HR and find out exactly what the check is and now we're going to plug in the mortgage, everything we think we're spending money on. What does life look like now with a 8-month old?

How much are we spending on diapers now versus when the baby was first born?" All of those things are going to give you a much clearer picture on what it looks like today with the new lifestyle that you're in today. And I think that's actually going to help you because 130,000 um where you live, I think you should be okay. Now, don't get me wrong, to lose 75,000 a year is a lot of money. But that lead that actually led me to my other point of it's just one baby, right?

>> Right.

That's not true.

>> No, no, it it wasn't much of that. It was, you know, more so, you know, I want

a a right where it was expensive to do daycare and b for the for the amount of money it was going to cost us, you know, she wanted to stay home and wanted to >> okay >> uh raise our son and be >> which is fine. That's fine. But the way you framed it was it wasn't worth it for her to go to work. You made it seem like it was more of a cost thing. So, it's just personal values.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I guess yeah, you're right.

>> And that's fine. I think all of that though, what I'm trying to get you to is clarity. And I think if you can clearly say we're doing this because we value mom being at home with baby. That is a whole different conversation than it's too expensive, we can't afford, right?

So now you're talking about real things which is no this is a value of ours which knowing that is also going to reflect how you feel now about the budget being shorter because you've said no in our hearts we want this so now we are able to tackle a smaller budget or working with a smaller income. Do you see what I'm saying? I'm just trying to get real. I mean, George, you know how it feels to have a eight-month-old at the house.

You're not making a newborn, a 2-year-old. Life is chaotic. And that's where you and your wife sitting down looking at the budget every month and just going, "Okay, I'm going to bring seven grand in this month, and our mortgage is 2,400. We're going to have a thousand left over.

>> Yes, we do. >> Are you investing 15% out of every paycheck?

>> We are. >> Okay. And then beyond that, how much margin would you say you have at the end of every month? Or is it disappearing into random spending?

>> I would say more disappearing into random spending. >> I think that's what's making you feel out of control because you're analytical. You're going like the math ain't mathing. There should be two grand laying around and it's gone.

And it's amazing. If you like to take take all the receipts of all the money you spent, it'll make a little bitty book of the reasons why we feel that way. And so that's where budgeting with the new every dollar with your bank connected, the transactions are flowing in, total transparency and accountability with you and your wife. And then you might decide, oh, you know what?

Yeah, we need to be spending more cuz she's like, dude, I'm spending it on things the family needs. We just need to up the budget line item to account for that instead of going red flag, red flag, you're overbudget. So I think I there's probably just some disongruity with like what you're actually spending versus what you think you're spending. >> Yeah.

Your life has changed a lot.

reflect that change.

>> Yep. No, I appreciate that a lot. And and that's something that we've actually embarked on recently is kind of combining our finances just listening to you guys and >> kind of buying into that buying into that idea of, you know, becoming a unit,

you know, and and we're, you know, working through those things. And so I I really appreciate the feedback. >> I love it. I think you're doing a great job. And I think that you're a >> you're doing better than you think. >> Uh-huh. And you're a reflection of the fact that this whole thing is a process.

Like no one just in one day or in one listen or in one movement gets it all.

It is like building blocks stacking on each other and like you said, first we did the combined finance thing, then we did the debt payoff thing. All of that is stacking up and I just I think you're doing fabulous. >> Are you using a spreadsheet right now? Are you using a budgeting app?

>> Yeah, we're using we're using a spreadsheet cuz that's that's uh >> How many times has she said, "Hey, can I look at that budget spreadsheet? That sounds fun." >> Uh zero.

>> Thank you. Final answer, your honor. I I'm case closed on that We're going to send you the brand new allnew every dollar for you to have something that not only would a wife like to look at.

But now she doesn't have to say, "Can I see that spreadsheet?" You can just say, >> she'll open the app. >> She'll open her own app and be able to see it. >> There we go. That'll help get her on board on top of combining finances.

Proud of you guys. You're making progress, man. That's all you can hope for. [Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

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>> When you were saying that M&M's Lose Yourself was playing when you were like, you've just got this one chance. I was like, >> I heard the music in my head.

>> That's the most Jade thing I can think of. There's worse songs you get stuck in your head. >> Oh boy. I'm sorry.

>> Mom Spaghetti, what can you do? >> I know. >> All right, let's go to Indiana. Ann joins us there. Ann, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Um, my quick question is, I'm in my

early 60s, recently divorced. M

>> um I am debtree, but I'm used to

supplementing my income versus living

off on my own income. So my income is

about 40,000 a year. And so I'm renting

right now. I found this apartment that I can afford >> and just trying to decide for my future,

should I consider purchasing or just

continue to rent? you know, I know the

difference. You know, if something breaks here, they help pay for it versus

being a homeowner and all those expenses. >> So, there's no debt. Do you have any assets? Do you have any money anywhere?

>> Retirement.

>> Yeah. So, I have like 150K in

retirement. >> Okay. >> I've got my emergency fund of 10K.

>> Okay. And then I have another 45K liquid

that I have access to. I've got a paid

for car which is dependable. It's going to last me for years.

>> Good. >> Um I do have grandma inheritance. Um I

lost her this past year, but I have

about 380,000 there.

>> Great. Okay.

So, I just don't know, you know.

>> Yeah, I think >> I'm probably going to work another five or seven years.

>> Okay, great. What are you paying in rent?

>> Um, right now my monthly expenses are about 1,800 when I when I consider rent,

all the utilities, internet.

>> Good. >> Um, I like the idea. Ann, what a

reasonable house for someone you know of your needs, what does that cost you? because you seem like a reasonable lady who would give me a good answer or accurate answer. >> Um, if I just got a simple like a starter home >> or even a condo >> even a townhouse. >> Yeah. >> Um, in our area, I'm probably looking at

hopefully just under 200,000.

>> Okay. I I love that as a goal for you

and I think that it's 100% within your reach considering you've already got a

decent amount saved. uh you've got 45 liquid that's not really earmarked for anything. Um and you can continue to add

to that over time to put down the down

payment or maybe that is enough of a down payment to get you where you want to be. Uh you can log on to our uh home

calculator and we'll put the link to that in the show notes for you. But see what it would take to put the right down payment on. Of course, we don't want it to be any more than 25% of your take-home. And then from there, if you do say, "My budget's 200,000 and then I'm going to work for however many uh extra years to pay this off." I think you could do that.

And if you got to the point where it's seven or eight years later and it's still not quite paid off, you could reach into that inherited money and that retirement fund that's been growing all this time and is likely doubled and you could just reach in and take the rest of it out and pay off the remainder after seven years.

Uh, I've toyed with that idea. I just

worry about, you know, he goes out if it

needs a roof, you know. Um, I don't know

that I'm financially going to be in a place to feel comfortable taking care of all those. >> Well, George can walk you through the numbers on that because you've got you've got a good start here.

>> Yeah, you can cash flow any repairs and expenses. You'll have homeowners insurance to cover the big stuff. And so you're really worried about those those little things and kind of just maintenance and repairs, which isn't going to be, you know, 25 grand a year.

>> So I would buy a smart house that's not in disrepair. You don't need to go buy a fixer upper. Oh, yeah. >> Um I would buy something that's maybe maybe it's a little bit newer and, you know, it's going to have less repairs and less ongoing maintenance.

>> You know, it's not like a 1950s bungalow that you got to keep up with. But I like the idea. Here's an option. If you paid cash for a $200,000 home today, you would still have like 220 grand left over that you could invest. Correct?

>> Yes. >> So, if you invested that on top of your 150, uh if you were able and willing to work until like 70, you'd have 750 grand

as a little nest egg for you on top of having no mortgage that whole time.

M >> so you could even that's without you adding a dime to your investments outside of grandma's inheritance plus your 150 that you have. So I'm just trying to show you kind of the full picture of what your trade-offs are here because the other thing is homes are going to be more expensive if you wait 5 years

>> a $200,000 home is probably now worth$ 275. >> That's right. >> And so it's a moving target and I'd like to stabilize your biggest fixed expense which is housing. And you can do that by buying a house. Now, you're always going to have homeowners insurance, property taxes. Those will always be ticking up slowly over time, but you'll have the cushion to to stomach that. And I also want to go, how can we get you making more money than 40,000 at your age with your experience? What are you doing for work?

>> Um, well, I retired from my full-time career, but I'm I'm doing more of a medical assistant work. It was just something I've took time off to to tend

to my grandmother while she was ill and

um so I was, you know, not working for several years. So getting back in the game in the medical field, which is just something I chose to change >> from I used to be crisis social work. So

>> yeah, you seem like just a person who has like your heart is just to help people, take care of people. That's who you are. >> And you can make good money doing that.

So, I just want to tell you, you don't need to just settle and go, "Well, this is all I can get at my age." That's right. >> I would go, what are the caretaking type jobs that I could get that I'm able to do? >> And what will have you run it out? What will your I'm guessing you're waiting to take obviously take your social security. What will it be when you take it?

>> Uh, when I take it then, uh, it's going to be about gosh, what was it? three

over a little over 3,000 a month.

>> Okay. So, you'll have that coming into um >> on top of whatever nest egg you've built. So, I feel good that you're going to be able to sustain you you're live a very frugal life it seems. So, if you can keep your expenses low like you have been, I think getting a house in the near future, I mean, you have the money to do it and pay cash. That's that's what I would do personally. And then invest anything left over.

>> Okay. Okay. >> Are you working with a financial adviser right now to help you plan all this out?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I am. >> Okay, good. >> I'm just trying to decide on on a um

>> should I just I'm going to continue to rent for a year. >> Okay. >> Um so that I you know just cuz that life

changing thing.

>> Well, after a big life change, I don't want to make a decision. >> I understand. That's that's wise. Yeah, that's very wise. It's wise. It's a year lease. So, I'm going to stay here at least a year, rent, and then I'm happy.

I'm happy where I am.

>> Good. >> Um, and I can make it work financially.

I'm I am taking care of myself. Yeah, you are. >> I was scared I couldn't do that.

>> I would just caution you not to get too comfortable in that rental phase because George is so right. You want to stabilize that line item. Uh, as you age, you don't, you know, it's hard to control prices of rent and all that. So, that's a fluctuating thing and we want to get you stability.

So, while I think it's great for you to stay there for the year, run out your lease, like you said, get a handle on what this new life looks like, but uh don't get so comfortable that you forget about the dream and the stability of owning your own home. >> That's good wisdom.

>> Um 92.

>> Well, and those genetics play out. You got another 30 years at least on this earth if you just do what grandma did.

And so again, 30 years from now, who knows what rent will be. I want to get you in something that you can call your own that stabilizes and gets rid of that payment every month. We're rooting for you.

[Music]

Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps? Well, we've got a way for you to check. You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan built just for you.

Simply head to the show notes on this episode, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. Nick is up next in Austin, Texas. Nick, what's going on?

>> Hey, George and Jade. Um, thank you for taking my call. >> Absolutely. >> I uh I

So, at the start of this year, I had a wakeup call when I tried to take out another personal loan to pay for my shortages on my property taxes. I also

took a little bit extra for a trip, but I realized I had no money to live on because I had promised it all away with no interest or personal loans. That's where I found you, George, specifically.

And with a little bit of time, I started following the Ramsay plan. I started

working 60 hours a week and did that

from midFebruary to mid August.

I have attacked debt like a gazelle like

Ramsay teaches. Um, and I can see myself

debtree from my home and everything in 5 years. But my question is I'm tired. I'm

exhausted now. How do I keep going

um and moving past this this point right

now where I feel like it's never going to end?

>> Well, man, I'm proud of you've already made some serious progress and big changes in your life and I'm glad you had that wakeup call this year.

>> What's your what's your uh debt remaining?

>> Um so I started the year with 82,000

roughly 82,500 in uh nonhome debt.

>> Mhm. >> Um today I'm at

uh about 50,500.

>> Wow. Way to go.

>> You knocked out 30 grand so far and you're like, "Dude, I'm not even halfway there. How am I going to finish this race?" >> Exactly. >> What's your income? What have you been earning during this time?

>> Um, so my take-home pay or my um not

takehome, but my I guess gross is I make

75,000 a year.

>> Okay. And >> so if I break that down, that's about

>> I didn't mean to cut you off, but that's about 2,200 2,200 every two weeks. So

4,400 a month.

>> Okay. And are you doing side hustles?

>> No, but I was doing overtime.

>> Okay. >> And so my take-home pay was like 7500 a

month. >> Wow. >> 75. Great.

Um, >> and you're saying you can't keep up with that pace. What What pace would you say, "Hey, I can keep up with this for another year and a half if I do 50 hours instead of 60." >> That's what everyone keeps telling me.

I'm in the mindset of like it's all or nothing. >> And so, I think that's where I'm getting >> like defeated at.

>> I get that. I'm an all or nothing type of person myself. Um, but the truth is

if you get to that wall, you're going to have to Here's the options. All or nothing is I get to the wall, which sounds like you're at now, and I just stop. And then if I stop, that means I didn't accomplish my goal. That means I didn't do what I set out to do. And then I feel terrible about that. Right? So, it's it's important that you figure out how to be a person who can uh meet in

the middle and say, "Here's what I can do. here's the most I can do in this season and then here's the most I can do in this season and here's what makes sense for this season. So you've had what I'm going to call, you know, however many months, six, eight months of allout sprinting and now you're like, you know what, I just need to jog a little bit for a while. Let me jog.

And then maybe that looks like to George's point, yeah, going down to 50 hours and then you might get your wind back and then you're ready to sprint again.

>> Yes. And I think that's what's going to happen because you're still going to realize and get the feeling of, "Oh my gosh, this debt is going down. I'm making extra payments." You're still going to get that high. You're still going to get that dopamine hit, but you're also going to, you know, keep your sanity intact at the same time.

And I'm telling you, that number is going to get to a point that 50 at some point is going to get to 20 or 30 and you're going to want to sprint again. >> You'll see some light at the end of the tunnel. And the other thing I would encourage you to do, Nick, spread out the sacrifice. So maybe it's not all overtime.

Maybe I'm willing to cut my expenses in this area and that creates the same amount of margin so I can keep up the progress I was throwing at the debt. So, have you looked at all of your expenses and done a pretty brutal judicious audit of like, hey, I don't need this.

So, I I um I have a I George, I

purchased your book um like a month ago and then I purchased the audio book cuz

I like listening to the book uh that you

that you wrote. But anyways, um um I I

started um I think just a couple days

ago I lo uh you you give um a free trial

for the um >> Every Dollar.

>> There you go. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And uh so I logged in and um um I've

been trying to incorporate it, but I do an Excel sheet um with >> Have you used the allnew Every Dollar like with the coaching recommendations?

Um, >> we just launched that. I think that's going to be your ticket to give you a little fuel because there's so and you can read I have a chapter in the book called Margin is breathing room where I lay out a whole bunch of ideas. Well, now the allnew Every Dollar does that for you and it's personalized based on what you have told us in your situation, your life, and what you're willing and able to do. So, I think that's going to really help you on this journey.

But I want to encourage you, this is a normal feeling.

>> Ah, and also your book, um, the margins

of error is, um, our breathing room is chapter 12. Yeah, I'm still on chapter eight. >> Okay, keep reading, my guy. >> I don't want to give it away.

I don't want to give it away. Everyone dies in the end. No, I'm just kidding. >> Well guys, >> that would be wild if that's how I ended the book.

Nobody dies. Only people find financial freedom. That's it. Hey, thanks so much for the call, man.

I love to hear the progress and how our stuff is is helping uh you get to the path on debt freedom. >> He's talking about real things though.

over lengths of time and the longer the length of time for you listening the harder it can be. Some people I mean we see on average yeah it's usually about a two year span you can knock it out but some people are on a longer uh you know course on this three years four years for Sam and I was seven and a half years and whatever whenever that moment hits the option is never to stop you can uh

change the intensity at which you're going and to George's point you can start to find trade-offs in other places in the budget uh another thing I like to do George is especially if you're a person who's side hustling and you're like if I deliver you know one more pizza or one more Instacart, I'm going to scream. Okay, quit that side hustle and get a new one. You know what I mean? Cuz there's always the side hustle that you dread and that you hate.

And even if it might be making a lot of money, just put it on break for a while and do something else. So, really get creative to keep things fresh in your mind. And another thing, yeah, if you need to scale it back and and jog for a little while, that is okay. You're still making progress.

The point is making progress is not excuses. It's one thing if you make an excuse and you stop. It's another thing if you're like, "Hey, this is really happening and I just need to slow down a little bit." Totally fine. I will never fault anybody or yell at anybody for that.

So, >> I love that.

Living how you've been living for the next 10 years or just sticking it out for a year or two of grind where you're like, "Oh my goodness." Cuz at least you're making progress. The other one is just mediocrity and giving giving up.

Yeah. >> So you you don't look at the baby steps as a past fail where it's like if I don't go all in then I'm not doing it at all. I'm going to hit a wall. If you get a B+ and you become debtree, but it took you 6 months longer than you wanted it to. >> Dude, you still won the like you did it.

>> That's right. You did. >> That's right. Meanwhile, some people are on the treadmill and they're just walking at a breezy 3.3. And I'm like, you need to click up the treadmill and see yourself sprint.

>> They've got a bunch of savings. They could pay off the debt, but I'm going to keep my match with the employer. I'm not going to cut my investing.

>> Not even breaking a sweat. Some of y'all need to break a sweat. >> Jade's out here judging you. I just want you to know. Ramsey is >> Get out of here. >> Get out of here.

>> That was a pretty awful accent. I got to I expected more. >> Get out of here.

>> The more you do it, the worse it's getting. And I like it. >> What if I go up octaves? Get out of here. >> Actually got better. You you got older and more kerogginly which made it hit in

a different way. I appreciate that.

>> Only you could have brought that out. George, >> thanks for playing. This is the Ramsay Show.

[Music]

Our [Music]

[Music]

scripture of the day, Proverbs 11:24 and 25. One person gives freely yet gains

even more. Another withholds unduly but comes to poverty. A generous person will prosper. Whoever refreshes others will be refreshed. Paul Stanley of KISS said,

"Charity is not an option, it's an obligation." Left field quote from Paul Stanley, but we'll take it. >> Not what I would expect. >> The sentiment rings true. All right. Ann

is in South Carolina up next. Ann, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Thank you for taking my phone call. Uh I am 7 I'm 71 years old,

retired. Uh my husband passed away last year. >> I still owe on the home of of 114,000.

I do have money in an IRA account.

People are telling me no, don't pay the house off, but I am taking money from that account every month to make the payment. So, I'm afraid I will run out of money over time.

So, I don't know what to do. Should I pay the house off? The interest rate is 1.99% or just keep taken away from

my IRA account.

>> How much is in that IRA?

>> Um total with money market IRA uh some

gold and silver 327,000.

>> Okay.

How are you living right now? You're needing to make the payment with the IRA money. Do you have other income?

>> I do. I have um social security.

>> How much is that?

>> It's 3,300.

>> And what's that mortgage payment every month? >> Around 1,400.

>> Okay. So, let's >> with taxes and everything.

>> Okay. So, if you paid off the mortgage, you would free up the principal and interest. So, it's not going to be Yes.

>> all 1400. Would it be closer to a,000?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Because you still got to pay insurance and taxes and all that good stuff. >> Correct. So, you free up $1,000, which means you don't need to tap into the IRA, but you've depleted the IRA down to, let's do the numbers for you here, down to 213,000 if you paid it off today.

>> So, the question is, could you still live a full life and have a great retirement with your social security plus 213,000 in the IRA that you now don't need to touch?

Uh well that's that's the question.

>> Yeah. So that well the if you don't need to touch it then the money is just going to sit there and grow. I would caution you to not keep it in money markets and gold and silver. I would have it in the market working for you to at least beat inflation.

>> Okay. >> And so you can work with it. Do you have a financial adviser that you trust right now? >> I do.

>> Okay. and he he was telling me to move everything or at least what I have in the money market over to where he is and

let him put it >> and actually invest it for you, >> right? Yeah. >> Okay. You said you're 71 and so if we ran the numbers out by the age of 80, if you just let that 213 sit there, you'd have over half a million dollars in that nest egg if you didn't touch it. >> Oh, that would be good. So, you're saying you're just going to live off social security, but you have no mortgage payment, and you're okay with that. You're still going to do all the things you want to do?

>> Well, probably not. But I'm I'm to the point that I've done pretty much everything I want to do, but my thing is, >> you're not skydiving or anything fun?

>> Emergency. >> Yeah. Do you have an emergency fund?

>> I have some, very little, though.

>> About 6,000 seven.

>> Okay. I would pull some from that money market and keep it in a high yield savings and keep it liquid and maybe have $20,000 as your emergency fund to just protect you from all the things that could happen in your life, the home maintenance and repairs and all that stuff, >> right? >> What's your health like?

>> It's pretty good. I do a little part-time job, but it's not, >> you know. >> Okay, that's what I was getting to. I was getting to maybe having a little part-time job would also help supplement the 30, what is it? 3,300 that you're getting from social and that way.

>> Yes. >> You know, that's just giving you a little bit more pad. Like George says, you have that emergency fund. I really like that plan for you because even if you took, let's say you took $1,000 a month from that IRA, you're likely never going to run out of money if you do that. It's going to grow faster than you're depleting it.

>> Okay? And so I just think the peace that

comes with having a paid for mortgage at your age is worth it regardless of the spread you could have made because your friends are like, "Wow, you have a low mortgage. You could just leave the money invested. You're way better off. Don't ever pay off that mortgage." Well, they don't pay your bills.

And so I'm not going to give them the 100% voting stock in your life. >> I would do what you feel is best for you, not just financially, but for you emotionally >> and spiritually. And for me, that's not owing anyone any money and having more freedom. >> And you're likely going to be okay.

You're not destitute. You don't have debt payments.

>> And I would say you're going to be I mean, you can crunch the numbers with a financial adviser. This is just a guy doing napkin math on a podcast. But it looks like you're going to have a a full and wonderful life paying off that mortgage and leaving the money. Invest it. Now, the key is invest it. If you leave it in savings, it could get depleted while you're still on this earth.

Okay. >> But if you take that 213 and invest it in the stock market, what we have seen over the last, you know, 50 years is about a 10% 11% return. And so your

money would double about every seven years if you do that. Hence my numbers of having half a million dollars if you just left it alone.

>> Okay. Well, that's to me I feel like

you're, you know, it would give me relief that this is paid for. I don't have to worry about it. >> I love it. And Ann, I tell you this like you were my mom. This is the same advice I would give to my own mother if she called in. And so I'm wishing you the best. You've done a really good job. I'm so sorry for the loss of your husband.

>> How long were you guys married? >> Thank you. 30.

>> Wow. >> 30 years. >> Yeah. It was It was not expected. So I'm

sorry. >> It was >> What was his name? >> Like his I'm sorry. >> What was his name?

>> Michael. >> Michael. >> Michael. Wow. >> Sweet. Well, and I'm I'm rooting for you in retirement, even if it's not the picture you had. >> Um, you you've done a good job preparing for the future, and I I hope that you have a a wonderful long life ahead of you and a great retirement. Let's move on to Alex in Raleigh, North Carolina.

What's going on, Alex?

>> Hey, George and Jade. I appreciate you guys talking to me. How are you? >> Sure. We're doing great.

>> Calling today because my wife and I, we're uh we're longtime Ramsay listeners. We're on baby steps six and seven. Uh the only debt that we have is our mortgage. >> Awesome. >> And calling today because um you know we have paid for vehicles with cash flow house improvements and my wife has decided that she wants to upgrade her Tahoe. And the discussion is, you know,

we can um she's talked about getting a loan and I have a bonus coming up here

shortly that would cover the amount of the loan. >> Mhm. Um, but my question is I'm trying to determine kind of what is how do you determine what the proper amount to spend on upgrading a vehicle is given our you know where we are in the baby steps and then also I you know I'm I'm feel pretty confident you guys are against getting a loan period.

>> I'm more concerned with the fact I'm less concerned about you spending cash on a Tahoe. I think that you will be reasonable on that. I'm more concerned with her even suggesting a loan. What's happened there? Why did she get so desperate?

>> That's that's the same same question I asked. You know, it's um like I said, it's a nice vehicle. It runs fine. And um >> what's it going to cost to upgrade?

>> It's going to be anywhere between 15 and

$19,000 is what she's suggesting for the

loan. Um the trade in value on it or the

sale sale value of it's about 20 grand.

And like I said, we we finished up our, you know, our fiscal year with the company I'm with here recently and I, you know, have a bonus coming. Feel confident that it will cover >> the amount of that loan. I'm I'm of the opinion, though, let's just wait till that money. >> You're not getting a loan.

I'm telling you right now, y'all are not getting a loan. Alex, >> that's just a value in our house that we don't borrow money. So, it's an easier conversation, >> right? And it's >> What's your household income >> that we've we're we're a little over two.

>> Okay.

you spend cash for it. My parameters on this are kind of, you know, it's all about the financially smart adult checklist. And it's five things to go through. You want to make sure you're a p person who's budgeting, you're a person who's paying off your debt, you're a person who's saving, right? You've got your emergency fund, you're doing your 15%, you're a person who values generosity, and you're a person who carries the proper insuranceances.

If that's true, which it is, you're on baby step six. You can do this, but you cannot consider debt for this.

>> Get the car, but do it the right way, my friend. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Until next time, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 139. Solve for Peace Instead of Screwing Around With Debt | August 21, 2025


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:11:36 |

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From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual

amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour hit on Ramsey Networks. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888255225.

Jim is in Connecticut. Hi Jim, how are you? >> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, so I have a question. Um, I've been listening for some time now and I've haven't heard this question answered.

Um, so basically my we have about a 90

about $90,000 in student debt and we

have the money to pay it off.

>> Good. >> But my question is so I have a friend

that's in real estate and he basically is telling me to get into real estate with that money rather than paying off my student debt. So essentially like you know putting down 20% on maybe two,

three, maybe four properties for example using that money to cash flow the payment on the um student loan and then

obviously build equity and wealth for whatever our kids for the family whatever.

>> Yeah. >> What do you think about that? >> Um well um I did something similar in my

20s and I went broke.

Mhm.

>> So, I'm not a fan. I think your friend doesn't know what he's talking about. I now own I now own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate.

>> Um, but I did not do it the way you're talking about. I paid cash for it as I went a little bit at a time and it's gone way up in value while I've owned it. >> Um, >> yep. So, uh u the the problem to break the

theory down is debt equals risk.

>> More debt equals more risk.

Debt equals reduced cash flow in real

estate because you got to pay the payments. More debt equals no cash flow

in real estate. So, when you have a tenant that pays you just a little bit more than the house payment because you only put down a little bit on the house,

when the you add up all of the repairs

and uh the vacancies and the tenants

that don't pay, which happens occasionally, when you add all of that together, you are actually losing money

>> on a leveraged piece of real estate like you're describing. And so unless you're

going to feed these three houses to the tune of about 500 bucks a month each average about $6,000 a year each with the numbers you're giving me >> um you're not going to be able to keep them and so they do not become a blessing then. And the idea that they're going to cash flow and pay off the student loans it's actually mathematically not going to happen. Um and again I I'm I'm 65 years old. I started doing real estate when I in 1978 when I was 18.

So, I did I didn't just invent this and get on TikTok.

So, it's not that it's against real estate. You know, you're not sitting there saying, "Oh my gosh, it's a terrible investment. The idea of real estate's terrible, but the way at which you do it >> is really important." And and I think the hard thing is too, Jim, you know, a lot of people set up these scenarios.

>> And you know, for some people it's like, okay, yeah, maybe it could kind of work out, but it that means everything has to be perfect. Everything from the market, the tenant, the house. You could get in this stuff and you tear down a wall and there's mold. You can't put a tenant in for 12 months until you do X, Y, and Z and you've bought it. I mean, like, it just there are so many factors to it

that it never works out perfectly. It just doesn't because there's just too many things up in the air. And so, um, >> so I would I would pay off your student loans, honey. >> Yes. Pay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because essentially the way he was explaining it's kind of like, you know, hey, you paid off your student loans, you know, congratulations. Down the back, here's your paper that you paid it off rather than like, oh, hey, you bought whatever, say one property for

example, you know, like, no, that's now that's like a bigger, you know, good job in a sense. >> Yeah. In in a s in a sense you said okay

>> in the world of finance we have a thing called opportunity cost.

>> When you take your $90,000 and you do one thing with it you lose the opportunity of doing the other thing with it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. And so the way to look at that is kind of do a little reverse engineering.

Let's pretend you didn't have student loans.

>> Wow. That feel good. Would you go borrow

>> $90,000 to put down payments on houses?

>> No. Yeah, that's why I knew you would.

Yeah, >> which is exactly what you're proposing if you look at the balance sheet of what you're proposing. So, uh, the data tells

us that people most often build wealth not doing your friend's plan. instead

paying off your student loans, using the increased cash flow and the increased freedom to start saving, paying off everything, being 100% debtree. A and

then let's let's pile up a little cash and get our first property with cash and then get our second property with cash.

And when you get about the fourth or fifth one, now you've got real cash flow coming because there's no payments. >> Yeah. And what's funny is even from a net worth perspective, >> goes way up. Well, that well his friend's way it goes way down because you're borrowing on a $200,000 house and you have $90,000 of student loan debt.

You know what I'm saying? You keep putting yourself deeper in the hole even from just a net worth perspective if you're just looking at the math too. >> Yeah. >> And Jim, always too remember this.

>> An Excel sheet, a formula is never going

to factor in the emotion of peace. And when you don't owe anyone anything, even a student loan, there is a level of peace there from an emotional spiritual perspective that is not calculated in an Excel file. And I'm telling you, when people become debtree, they pay off their houses, even in an extreme sense, when people stay on debtree, you know, the debtree stage here and they're completely debtree, their house and everything. They literally have no payments.

They never look back and say, "I so regretted that. I wish I still had all this debt and I was living how I was living. missed out on the opportunity to be highly leveraged and stressed out, >> right? I mean, like there there is. So, there's a level of peace there that I think is really important to solve for. And when you're just running and gunning and trying to do this whole thing to look good on a quote unquote balance sheet and what you have to say for yourself, I would swap peace every time.

You're going to have time, Jim, to be able to do this. You're going to I believe you will have time to save up, go buy your first fixer uper, and get in the real estate game. That's great. When you do it all with cash, it's going to just take longer and there's way more delayed gratification. But what that equals is a level of peace and sleep at night versus just that that risk factor

that's so real. >> Full disclosure, Rachel knows what she's talking about. That's what her husband does. >> Winston's in the real estate business. >> Well, and he does flips, but with cash.

>> He buys property and he does it with cash and he runs my portfolio as well.

And we do it with cash. And um you know

>> and it didn't start off pretty I mean like you know the first couple it was like a condo. >> The first one was a little one-bedroom condo and it was pretty stinky.

>> Pretty stinky little condo and that was y'all's first property. >> But what's crazy is you know you put the money in, you go and work it, you fix it and then again he's in more of the not Yeah. And he's not in the hold business but but even some of these flips and I've told you this. I'm like you know one or two of them if the market kind of slows down for about four or five weeks and you're holding on we don't think much about it.

his friends that kind of do the same thing that do have payments to the bank, they're like, "God, when is this market going to pick up?" And they there's a level of stress there. And I'm like, I don't know.

You're fine. You're fine. >> You want to lose money in real estate, become a motivated seller.

>> That's the best way you lose money in real estate.

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[Applause] Martin's in Los Angeles. Hey Martin, how are you? >> I'm doing great. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help? >> Um, so I've come into a um, you know,

I've got a fair amount of, uh, debt. Um,

and but I'm also, you know, there's some good things going on. I've uh, you know, I've got a job where I'm making really good money and a lot of room for upward

mobility. And so far, my performance at the new job has been, uh, pretty fantastic. So, I, you know, I think there's a lot to, to look at, you know, positively about the future. Um, but the

weight of the debt is really, it's

really hitting me. Um, so I make about

um, you know, I I've got this job recently. I make about 200,000 a year.

>> Cool. What are you doing?

>> Uh, I'm in sales. >> Good for you. What are you selling? >> And um, I sell um medical devices.

>> Great. Good job. Good. Good position.

Well done. And how much debt you got?

>> Uh, so I have about 20,000 in student

loans. Uh, 20,000 in credit card debt.

Um, which uh I I used to help pay for

school cuz I I got hit pretty hard during CO. Um, so >> how much you owe on your car?

>> Um, about 30, but I get a I got an 800

900 month stipend for it. Um, >> doesn't matter. You get that whether you have a payment or not.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. And so, um, what other debt? 2030. What else? Um

that is uh that's it.

>> What did you make last year? >> Um >> uh so >> before you had this job, what'd you make? >> Uh so I made 150. The year before that I made uh 85.

>> So I've had I've gotten promoted twice in the last two years.

>> So if you could live on 85, you could be debtree in a year.

>> I didn't have the car payment um back

then. I didn't I didn't have the uh the credit card payment then. If you could live on 85, you could be debtree in a year. >> Okay. All right.

>> I mean, really, here's the thing. 200

minus 85 is 115.

>> Yeah.

>> And you only have $70,000 in debt.

>> Okay. >> Is that right?

>> Yeah. I think with taxes and and putting about 12% into the 401k >> um stuff doing the 401k >> temporarily till you get this dad gum mess you made cleaned up.

>> Okay. >> Completely focus on clearing the debt.

When I picked up the phone, Martin, I heard amazing amounts of stress in your voice.

You were sighing, breathing hard, all kinds of anxiety indications in your verbal patterns when you started talking about the debt. When you talked about the job, you started lighting up again and your voice pattern changed.

Okay. >> Okay. >> And you said, "If I could, I'm drowning." You the words you were using and I'm drowning in this debt. And so I

want you to react to this debt like your

life depends on clearing it because if

you could make $200,000 a year and you had no payments, you can be wealthy, sir.

>> Okay? But if you hang around with stupid car payments, stupid credit cards, and

stupid student loans, and you keep them around like they're a freaking pet, and you try to ease your way out of this with the kind of money you're making and try to work some kind of thing where you scam the system, you're still going to have that stress in your voice.

>> Okay?

>> Get it.

>> Martin, what makes you think you can't?

If you if last year you were doing 85, what's the hesitation?

It's not that so much. I've I've put, you know, I put a fair amount of debt on um in the last year and I mean just you know stupid purchases and things like that. M um but it's it's not so much I

can't it's more just kind of trying to figure out like what do you think is feasible like what just understanding like what would you do you know I'm I'm new to this you know like again >> so if you're making 200 and you stopped your 401k contributions what would your take-home pay be >> per month >> um probably around

>> um 10 a month

>> how much is your rent or mortgage >> rent is 3 3,000. That's the really tough one. And that's, you know, it's not like it's it's not like it's crazy.

>> Yeah. It's 30% of your take home world.

>> Something's wrong, Martin.

>> 200 minus 120.

>> 10 a month is 120. You don't have $80,000 worth of withholding.

>> It's Isn't it Isn't it about 50,000 withholding at that point?

>> Well, 50, not 120. federal and then you

have another 20 20 20ish in uh

>> No, you got >> uh state California maxes out their rich people tax is 15%.

>> Okay, >> cuz they're trying to run off all the rich people. >> Wait, 15%. >> Yeah, California has a rich people tax of 15% of your income.

>> I thought it would be more than that. >> No, that's it. >> But that's more than any that's more than any other two states put together.

But yeah, >> but that's addition to your I mean so it's >> Yeah. And then and then you've got then you've got your federal, but your federal is not even going to be 50,000 in this case. >> So you you you know you need to get

really get above your numbers here and start working them through. So I think free in a year what 30% federal for him.

No >> at 200 >> it would be 30% bracket but it's not the full thing. That's right. It's a marginal income. I know I know. Yeah.

Yeah. Bracket is not the amount.

>> Spoke. I know. I know. I mean it's so it's it's about 26% is what

>> um >> of the above the bracket. Yeah.

>> Including California.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Believe me. So yeah, the uh because these are incremental marginal tax brackets. They're not taxed at the tax bracket. So that's the point. So anyway, you need to get into this and figure it out and sit down and go, I'm going to be on beans and rice, rice and beans. I'm going to stop the stupid purchases.

three grand worth of rent for a single guy that's broke. I don't know, man. I I may be looking at that, too. And so, um, but for sure in LA, for sure, I'm going to work my butt off and I'm going to do nothing but work.

That's all I'm going to do. No vacations, no buying crap. You are broke. >> Quit acting like you're rich.

You're not broke. You're not rich. You're broke. Act like it >> and pay down this debt and be done with it.

Because you reach over and knock off all those credit cards in two or three months, which you could do. You probably do it in about four months, actually, three months, something like that. Then you're free to knock out that student loan and then reach over and knock that car out. Think about how your what your budget looks like when you don't have any of those payments anymore.

This is where you've got to go to. And so what the plan is is stop everything temporarily and attack the debt. Listing your debts smallest to largest. pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one with a vengeance.

figure out a way you can't do it. Figure out a way you can do it. That's the

point. And so, stop your 401k temporarily. Stop your vacations. Stop your happy hours. Stop all this junk you're spending money on. Unplug stupid Amazon and go get out of debt. And then

when you're free, you're going to make a lot of money and you'll be able to stack cash really quick because you'll be used to living on less than you make. And that changes everything. You're you're resetting the wires in your brain.

>> Yeah. And it is a it is a rewiring because I think our natural tendency always is to be moving forward, meaning

like bigger, better. You start with the starter house, you get the bigger like like our life, you know, you get promotions. Everything that we're used to is gradually increasing in life. And

when you do this and you actually pause your life and go backwards in lifestyle,

it kind of mess it'll mess with you because you're not used to that, right?

The celebration of moving forward always, oh, I got a bigger job. He's getting paid twice as much, you know, as he used to. And it should feel like, oh, well, I should have twice as of a better life. Not with this, not when you have debt. And so there is a rewiring of what

feels like going backwards and that natural tendency is not to like it. I don't want to go backwards. I should be moving forwards. Yeah. >> But when you're doing it so on purpose, it's and time goes fast, too. That's my other thing. It feels like Christmas is about to be here. And I feel like we just had Christmas, right? Like you you think about how fast this time goes.

It's going to go quick. It's not forever. It's literally for a snapshot of a moment in time that you're going to do this. And it sets up your whole trajectory going forward with your finances. [Music]

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Jim and Sarah are in Michigan. Hi guys, how are you?

>> Pretty well, Mr. Ramsay. Thank you for taking our call. We're anxious to talk to you, sir. >> Our honor. How can we help?

>> Well, we've been married for 40 years and we've um >> gone through a lot of finances successfully. We've uh managed to save a

substantial amount of money. And uh about 3 years ago um I acquired a 30foot

sailboat and uh it cost roughly $6,000 a year to

own and operate.

>> What did you pay for the 30ft sailboat?

>> Uh well my neighbor gave it to me or I should say Jesus gave it to me.

>> Free >> to be more accurate.

>> He gave you a 30-foot sailboat free.

>> Jesus did. >> Yes, sir. >> Three. We have three sailboats for given to us for free. Three.

>> Okay. You currently own only one?

>> No, we own three. >> You currently own three sailboats.

>> Jesus. >> Three free sailboats.

>> And And you said you said you had piled up a substantial >> Hey, Jim. You said you had piled up a substantial amount of money. What's your all's net worth?

>> Not that much. >> Um about 3.7 million.

Sarah, >> not that much. She said, "Not that much." That's pretty good, Sarah.

>> Well, I listen to you every day for two hours and we could do better, you know.

>> Okay. So, what are the three sailboats worth?

>> The cars all together. The cars and the sailboats. >> No, I asked what the sailboats are worth. >> The sailboats altogether are worth $7,000.

And we have a camper worth $500.

>> Okay. So, a 30foot sailboat is worth

2,000 of the seven or 3,000 of the seven. Jim, does that sound right to you? >> 5,000 of the seven. >> 5,000. Okay. So, you got two junkers and one good one. Okay. So, you have a $5,000 sailboat, but you want to spend $6,000 a year to keep a $5,000 thing

alive. I'm confused.

>> I am, too. >> No, Jim. Um, >> Jim, we already figured out what you want to do, Sarah.

>> Jim, why do you want to spend 6,000 to keep something that's 5,000 alive?

>> Well, that's just the normal cost of uh

marinas. Yeah. Marina slips and then >> launching and recovery in the spring and fall. >> Yeah. >> And you know, minor incidental.

>> It's not that much, but I kind of expected that when you said you were spending 6,000 on it that it'd be worth 30,000 or something.

Well, you know, it's it's worth what you can get on it on a good day, but you know, it could easily be worth 2020$ 20,000. >> No, no. $5,000. $5,000. And we

>> Wait, wait, wait a minute. There's a bit of a discrepancy here, boys and girls.

>> Yes, sir. >> Y'all are fun. Um, >> well, you know, with old sailboats is what you can get for it on a >> No, really, Jim. The stinking thing has a market value. Seriously, it's the range of value is not between five and 30. It's one or the other.

$5,000. >> Where did you get that number, Sarah?

You sound so sure.

>> The insurance. >> What? >> The the insurance.

>> Insurance does not determine value.

>> Okay, then I'm wrong. Okay. Uh it is between5 and $12,000 possibly. But

>> if you put a sign on it, you might sell it for 12,000.

>> No, you can't sell it. It's so bad.

People can't give them away.

>> Well, they did to you. Um That's the problem.

>> Yes, sir. >> And and so far he's spent $30,000.37

3786 cents on a a boat that people give

to you. 30 over $30,000 on a

>> You've had it five years.

>> Um about three. This is my third summer

with it. >> And he spent $30,000.37.

>> Hey y'all, but we're talking like five I don't know. Okay. 500 bucks a month.

There >> there's two issues here. Okay.

>> I don't know. >> Um >> Jim, we're not going to make Sarah happy. Okay.

>> Sarah's not going to be happy with a sailboat. >> Sarah's not happy with.7.

>> We know that. We know that Sarah's not going to be happy with a with a sailboat. So then the question is Sarah

um if you take the value of the sailboat

and and what you spend on it and you burn it in the middle of the floor, does it change your life when you have $3.7 million if you take $6,000 and throw it out the window as you drive along the interstate? No, it does not change your life. So this is not a deal breakaker.

You're not going to be poor and on food stamps because of Jim's sailboat, Sarah.

you're fine. Uh he you can afford to do this. It's not a big deal. Um but Jim,

you probably do need to think about I

mean we're sit Are you still sitting on the other two boats as well?

>> Yes. >> I I can only count one other sailboat except for a model sailboat in the living room. >> No, no, no. We have another boat.

Another boat. >> Oh, another boat. But not a sailboat.

>> Well, yes, we have another boat. >> Oh, you mean the rowboat? >> Yeah. >> Oh, yes, sir. We have a 12T aluminum boat. Yeah, that's true. >> Okay. >> And a camper. >> Yeah. Okay.

>> And um All right. And so >> other than mess with gym, Sarah, what are your hobbies?

>> Um well, actually, to be honest with you, I'd actually like a kitchen sink.

Um >> Oh, because Jim >> It's going to cost you a kitchen sink.

Jim, remodel the whole freaking kitchen as your tradeout.

Yeah. All right.

>> You two cheap skates are made for each other. Y'all are fun. I love y'all.

You're great. You listen. $3.7 million

if it's growing at 10% is growing at a rate of $370,000 a year. And we're having a discussion here about an aluminum 14 ft rowboat and

a kitchen sink. Y'all, >> yeah. >> You need to back up about three notches.

pan your camera back and start enjoying some of this money. Now, being tight and smart is what got you here, but now you need to enjoy some of it. And if Sarah, if $6,000 makes Jim happy, it's it's

$6,000. You can afford it. Okay. And Jim, if getting rid of the aluminum rowboat and the camper and the odd sailboat makes her happy, get rid of them and remodel her kitchen, too. You guys can afford to do all of that, but don't major in minors is stealing your piece. Okay.

>> Well, when she says remodel, we have a three-year-old home

>> countertop and a triple Okay. All I'm saying is buy her a sink.

>> All I'm saying is she wants me to tear that out and go down and get her a commercial sink like you find in the kitchen at McDonald's. >> And I don't want you to do it. I want you to pay somebody to do it.

Well, >> they're good. They're highra steel.

They're high grade steel. >> Yeah, like kind of like that aluminum boat. >> It's high grade. >> Use the aluminum from the aluminum boat.

Make you a sink. >> We're going to recycle.

>> Kill two birds with one stone.

>> Hey guys. >> Well, listen. You're stepping over dollars. You're stepping over dollars trying to pick up nickels.

>> And it's stealing your fund. It's stealing your fund. So there's stuff that my wife buys that I do not understand, but she gets joy from it.

And what I do is it what I do get joy from is her getting joy. There's stuff that I buy uh that she has absolutely

she thinks it's stupid when I buy it, but she doesn't hassle me about it because we have the money and I get joy from it and she wants to see me get joy.

So let's major in you guys giving each other some joy starting going forward here. Okay. You knew it's a funny call.

He's like, "We've been married 40 years." And she's like, "41. 41.

>> We ain't got any money. We're broke. It's only 3.7 million.

>> We didn't do good. We didn't do good."

>> They were funny. >> Y'all are great. That was so fun.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Hey, give each other some grace and love and to the tune of about 30,000 bucks each and just go blow some money on your 41year marriage. What a wonderful thing

to do. And it won't you won't even know it happened. You'll still have 3.7 million.

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That was the most fun I've had in a while. >> What? That call >> those two were a hoot. >> They were funny. >> If y'all want to call up and argue on the air in front of like millions of people, we would have you anytime.

>> Yeah, we had a we had a segment for a little while with the personalities called Settle the Debate >> and people would call in and do Yeah.

But they were they were very entertaining. That was >> They were fun. God, man. And I mean, just going to dinner with those two would be a hoot. Arguing about what you're ordering. It's like, that's too expensive. >> Don't get the cheaper chicken. >> Don't do that. >> I love it. Jenna is in San Antonio. Hi,

Jenna.

>> Hi guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure.

>> I was calling because I'm looking for some guidance. So, a little backstory.

Um, my dad sold us our me and my older brother, our childhood home back in 2021. and like the stipulation was that he could still live on the property um and not have to pay like rent or utilities. And we my older brother and I

rent out the house. And we make about $3,400 a month in profit off the rent.

And my dad right now, he's a single parent uh growing up and everything. So, he didn't save for retirement. He lives off social security. And he says money is tight right now.

And he uh reached out to us and asked if we could give him $400 from the profit of their rent each month. And my older brother was like, "Sure, 100%." And I just like did not feel good about it. I was like, "I think we need to look at your finances first, like figure out why money is tight." And then like draw some boundaries so it's not like every year like, "Oh, I need 500, 600 and it add up and everything." And I recognize like none of this money is coming out of my own pocket. It's like purely just profit.

And I don't know if I sound like a brat as a child by not just giving it to him. And so I'm just looking for guidance on that.

>> Yes. So we did a so he sold it to or we

did a parent to child transfer and all he wanted was 50,000 and then we took over the rest of the mortgage

but like me and my brother are on title and loan like it's legally our house.

>> Yeah. And so what was at the time that

the mortgage plus 50,000 at the time this happened was how much?

uh 450,000.

>> So he had a mortgage of 400 and you gave him 50,000 cash.

>> Well, we did a cash out refinance, so we gave him 50,000 from that.

>> Oh, okay. And so the two of you have a

$450,000 mortgage now. And at the time that he

sold you the house for $450,000, what was the home worth?

>> Uh like 1.3.

>> Okay.

Okay. So, and now he doesn't have any money.

>> He says, "Yeah, money is tight, >> but I mean, he doesn't have any money." He had 50,000 bucks, >> and that was many years ago, and he's gone through that and he lives on the property.

>> Mhm. >> Uh, humbly.

>> Yes. >> After he gave you a half a million dollars, he's not very wise. He shouldn't have given you that money. He shouldn't have given you this house. >> I know.

>> I mean, not not I mean, he his first obligation is to pay his own bills. His second obligation or his second the only after you're paying your bills and have a plan for your bills do you start giving stuff away.

>> Yes, I think he had that plan. I think things I'm not sure. That's why I wanted to look at his finances. But I I look I look at it because the house is worth a lot of money and then I feel like I don't know. >> It was worth a lot of money when he gave it to you.

>> Mhm.

>> He gave y'all a million dollar house for half a million.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. And and and Yeah. And but and yet he ran out of money. So the whole thing he's a single dad. He hasn't saved for retirement. Bull crap. because he would have had a half a million dollars in the account living off of that and not been

calling you if he had just simply sold this house.

>> Correct. And he's told us that he regrets it and >> yeah, >> hindsight it's 2020, but >> was dumb.

>> Yeah. And so I assume he has absolutely no other money that you know of. It's not like he's got a million dollars in the bank from something else.

>> No, I think he has some being I I don't know because I haven't looked at his finances and so I was like, "Hey, if we give you this $400 a month, like let's look sit down and look at your finances, see where where money is going because like you don't have a car to 73." >> And how is his health?

>> Great. He looks like he's 55.

>> Okay.

All right. >> And is he's retired, not working, Jenna?

>> Correct. >> Yeah. um you you you don't have an obligation

at all morally, ethically, spiritually,

anything. But if someone had given me a half a million dollar gift and in return they're asking for $200 cuz 400 200 of

it's yours 200 of it's your brothers.

I would I wouldn't think anything about giving them $200.

So, you wouldn't do it? >> I would do it.

>> Oh, okay. >> I I I don't think it' be a problem at all. I mean, he gave you a half a million dollars. He stupidly gave you a

half a million dollars that he shouldn't have done. Then he wouldn't be having this trouble.

>> Yes. >> So, I don't know what was going on in their in your >> Well, I'm curious, Jenna, why $400 for him? To your point, wanting just to look. I'm just curious if $400, you know, does that change? Well, what >> he's probably living on social security, living in the shed out back. That's what it sounds like,

>> right? >> Yeah. I'm not sure. That's why I was like I didn't know if I was in the right to ask him like to >> Well, I mean, you be not not to ask him to justify you doing this, but just to

make sure he's okay.

>> He might need 800.

I'm just worried. My biggest worry is that he is giving it is going to give it to my little brother because my little brother just is doesn't do anything. And so, >> okay, that's a fair that's where I want that. >> That's new information that you never brought up until now.

>> Sorry. >> That's okay. But now, I mean, so I think you can address that with your dad. Dad, I want to make sure you're okay. I'm happy to do this, but I'm not happy to give my little brother money because he sits on his butt.

Mhm. >> If you're going to give it to him, no, I'm not going to do it. And if if if you'll let me look at your stuff with you and make sure you're okay, I want to make sure you're okay. You gave us this wonderful gift all these years ago. Um and little brother got cut out of that gift, by the way, didn't he?

>> On paper, yes. But my dad is now coming

back and saying that, "Hey, you need to split the house three ways between um >> No, >> I don't think he wasn't respon or financially responsible at the time of the sale. So that's why he wasn't included." >> Yeah. No, we're not redoing the deal.

I've been I've been dealing with this house and now I'm dealing with you. No deal. The deal's done. But again, you see how haphazard this whole thing was.

when y'all did this deal, it shouldn't have happened. It was a bad deal

>> for your dad. And he didn't think it through well.

>> And and now he's trying to come back and slide the brother in. And now he's trying to come back and slide 400 bucks out because he should have never done this in the first place.

He didn't have the half a million dollars to give away. He was too broke to be giving away half million dollar gifts.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And so now, yeah, I I I would be

concerned that he's okay because his judgment's bad. We've established that.

I want to make sure he's okay on loving act. Yeah. I'm happy to do this to help you, Dad. >> And I'm not going to put the little brother on the deed. Period.

>> Y >> that's done. >> And the money is not going to the little brother. But if all is said and he says, "No, it's not. This is for me to take care of him." Yeah. >> I mean, he gave you a half million dollars, you give him $200.

>> Zippy, it doesn't matter. I mean, yeah, I would do that. Definitely do that.

But, uh, the the but step back two

notches and y'all as a family learn your lessons from all the ridiculous things

that have been done wrong in this whole thing. So, and now I'm really worried about you and your older brother being partners in this thing. And now little brother decides he's going to go into orbit about this. Yeah, this is this is this is not clear. It's not good. So bad deal

all the way around. Bad deal,

man. So, um, >> but Jenna, I don't think you're being a brat for having these questions. You asked that at the beginning and I think you're having some like critical thinking. >> Yeah, you you've got some concerns that are valid. >> Yeah. >> And I would look into those concerns, but I want to do it through the lens of love. I love my dad and he was generous to me and I want to make sure he's okay.

>> Not of, oh, I'm not going to give him 200 bucks. That is bratty if you're going to do that. But but you know I if if he's going to give it to the little brother and the little brother's buying weed with it, no, we're not doing that.

I'm I'm with you on that.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, my daughter, bestselling author, is my co-host. Open phones at88255225.

[Music] Emily is in Maryland. Hi, Emily. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi. Um, so my question um revolves, so a

little background about me. My husband and I are both accountants. Um, we

make about 10k take-home pay right now after we put in about 10% of our

earnings into um 401k and, you know,

insurance and everything. >> And how much is the 401k and the insurance a month?

Um, I don't know exactly, but for me,

for my husband, I don't know. But for me, I take home about 48

um 45. >> Yeah. But your take-home pay, real take-home pay, as you know, is not after insurance and 401k. Real take-home pay is after taxes.

>> Um, right. So, this is after taxes.

Like, this is >> It's after taxes and after 401k and after health insurance.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So what I'm trying to ascertain is what your real take-home pay is. Okay. Go ahead. >> Right. Yeah. This is the paycheck that we get. Um so the the dilemma we have

right now is that we have we are living in our house right now which we bought 10 about 10 years ago. A foreclosed property needed a lot of work done. Um but we bought it because it was cheap and over the years we have been. So I've

always tried to live below our means and we have no debt. We have savings. We have an emergency fund. So, we're kind of on the step where now it was time to pay off our home.

>> Um, but recently I was working at a

school where my kids were going for free. It was a private school, but both my kids have learning issues and so we had to take them out of the private school and now they're in the public school in our local neighborhood which are not that great. The dilemma we have right now is that we want to move to a better school district, but the

obviously the house prices, everything that we're looking at is really going to put us in a in a position where we're going to end up living paycheck to paycheck. Um, and

what so like we we don't know whether we

should make that move or not because our house is more than enough for us. We're living comfortably in it. It's only the schools that are we're not happy with.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know the math yet, but if your statement is true

that you're going to be broke because you made the move and paycheck to paycheck with no margin, that obviously means you can't afford it, if that statement's true. So, but you might be an accountant who's super tight. So, I don't know. Um the um it sounds like

that your after tax take-home pay would

probably be around 12,000 or a little bit more per month, not counting

in more 401k if you took added 401k and

health insurance back in. I think that's going to add a couple thousand a month to your take-home pay. Does that sound right?

>> Um yeah, I think we'd be around 11K.

>> I think you'd be around 12K. I don't think you're doing all that for 500 bucks a month. What's your household income? Well, no, I know you're not. You told me your household income. Okay. So, no, you're you're you're not. That's not 500 bucks. So, uh unless you're not putting much in your 401k.

>> I know that I I put about 12% and my husband puts about 10%. So, um I don't

really know what that comes out to be. I haven't looked at it in a while because >> Well, the average would be 11% between the two, but let's just call it 10%. and you make $100,000 a year, that's $10,000 a month or $10,000 $11,000. So 401k

alone is $1,000 a month plus health insurance is going to be another $1,000 a month.

So yeah, I'm right. It's 12,000. Okay.

>> Something like that. Yeah, I guess. I guess. Um but what we get in hand right

now is about 10k and uh

>> I know. Okay.

>> Right. But what I'm what I'm I'm trying to say is that if the mortgage comes out to be like between 3500 to 4,000, which is what the houses we're looking at right now, >> if you put that on a 15-year fix, that's going to be about a fourth of your real take-home pay. That's going to 3K would

be a fourth would be about your max.

>> Could you find something for 3K, Emily, in that area?

Um, so we have about 400k equity in our

house, our house. Um, and what we're looking at is obviously to upgrade. I know that that's kind of going above our >> Well, don't upgrade to go paycheck to paycheck. Can you getting can you get a smaller house in the nicer area just to get the kids in the school?

um we can but long term I feel like it wouldn't be a good move because we wouldn't be able to you know have the same kind of equity in that house or like be be able to sell it because we do want to have like just this >> so Emily so this is okay so it's a values conversation at this point because as you're saying you're going to live paycheck to paycheck if you make this move because you're already assuming you're going to upgrade houses to get a bigger house than what you guys are currently >> and the reason you're getting a bigger house is not for your kids.

>> Yeah. So there's a value system conversation of do do am I val am I going to do what I have to do for the kids that's number one and we'll figure out the math and live somewhere smaller to because that's our value that's our number one value or is it we want to have a place where our family can grow in a home and get x y and z you know type of house and if that's the value then go there but one has to trump the other for the math you can't do both and it sounds like the kids are the number one Emily right and so for now I would as a mom with three kids I get that like you want them in in a great space where they're going to thrive and it's awesome.

I mean, you can your income's going to go up over time, but if you need to make the move, it sounds like you can't do both. >> Yeah. Don't strap yourself to buy a bigger house that you want and blame it on the kids.

>> It's not that's not fair. >> Yeah. Um, so if you want to buy a house for the kids, move over in the school district >> and it's going to be a nicer area. So it's going to be a smaller home, right?

>> And it's going to go up in value. >> Yeah. So the equity, >> you're not going to lose equity. You're going to do you're going to increase your equity because you're in a better area. >> So >> maybe an older, smaller home, but it's in a better area for the kids. And that's >> and we did this for the kiddos. Yeah.

And and that's the situation. So, but the the formula that we use, the reason I was poking around on your stuff, your interest, your take-home pay so hard is

a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed is what we suggest because

that gives you room where you are not living paycheck to paycheck. You've got margin in there to save for Christmas, save for the next car, save for a trip.

You've got margin in there and you can start putting 15% of your income into retirement at that point. Um, but if you go over 25% of your real take-home pay, and you're calling take-home pay,

um, uh, I'm talking about, when I say take-home pay, we're talking about only taxes and only taxes coming out, and

you've got at least $2,000 in non-ax

things coming out of your checks. So, you're dealing with about a $12,000

take-home pay the way we're defining it after taxes, maybe a little bit more, which would mean 14th of that, which is $3,000.

And that's what we would recommend on a 15-year fixed rate. And 15-year fixed rates just went down a tiny bit this week. Just a little bit. Not much, but just a little bit. So, that's how we get at it. But the thing you've got to do, Rachel's right, is you have to separate these discussions and keep it very clear what the primary goal is. What's the primary value we're trying to solve for

[Music]

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[Music]

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Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Ashley in Colorado. We are the parents of three young kids and have a YouTube channel which has been monetized for just over a year. Right now, the funds are sitting in the bank in our names.

We'd like to know how to grow that money wisely, but also keep some liquid. Our plan is not to give them any access to it until each of them reaches the age of 25. We are longtime listeners and really value your guidance.

This is the uh we've had this kind of question. I've had it three or four times in the last few months about monetizing on the internet >> accounts and stuff. It's like really >> well, we don't know what it is. You can monetize on YouTube and it's a small amount of money or it could be a million dollars. And so I don't know what we're dealing with here. Um, so the best

antidote to money screwing up your kids

is for you to not have screwed up your kids.

Money does not screw up kids. Money reveals that your kids are already screwed up.

And so you can't put it in a you can't keep it away from them long enough for them to not be screwed up. 25 is not a

magic number. And so I'm going to teach them responsibility, generosity. I'm

going to teach them wise spending. I'm going to teach them saving. I'm going to teach them work ethic. Uh age appropriately. We don't know how old the children are. She says young kids. I don't know what that means. Um and so but age appropriately so that when this money does come to their hands, they see it as what it is, a responsibility.

not that they are a four-year-old who hit the lottery. And um so and you turn

them into a trust fund baby of some kind. So having said all of that, I'm going to be really really I'm going to spend 90% of my calorie burn on this on making sure the kids are okay.

>> Mhm. >> First and foremost, then we can talk about the technicality of the investment. Okay. The only way you keep it away from them until age 25 is if you put it in a trust.

If it's in anything else, it goes to them at age 21.

And you can't stop it unless it's in a trust. So, you're going to have to go see an estate plan.

>> And it sounds like it sounds like the funds are in our names, which makes me sound like the parents' names.

>> Yeah. Well, it has to be in your name because the kid can't you can't put a a child can't do a contract. And so, you if you open a bank account for a kid, it's an utma, uniform transfer to minors act. And that means that it's in the parents name or it's in the kid's name, but the parent is the custodian.

>> Yeah. But I don't know if the kids are getting paid for the YouTube channel. Do you know what I mean? It could just be the parents getting paid. >> I don't know. Okay. That that could Well, that could be that would solve it. That would solve you. Give it to them whenever you wanted if it's your money. >> Yeah. >> If it's your money legally, if it's not their money, uh, legally, uh, or morally

for that matter. So, anyway, what would I do with it? Uh, I would make sure that some of it was available for their first car and that they add some to that. Um,

and so that's the part that's liquid. I would make sure there's some money available for fun. uh a small amount of some kind. And again, we don't know how old these kids are and what how this is going to unfold, but this is what we did with Rachel and Denise and Daniel. And so, uh and then the um the rest of it,

I'm probably going to sit down with Smart Investor Pro and get some money going into mutual funds. But again, if you're talking about 15 or $20,000 here, it's irrelevant.

You're you're spending way too much effort to worry about it. If you're talking about a million dollars or $750,000 or something like that, then it becomes relevant. And YouTube channels can monetize at all kinds of levels. We have a YouTube channel. We know. And so I know exactly what we make on our YouTube channel. So the uh on the monetization portion of it anyway, but so the um you know, I remember the first

time I met someone, you remember Shay Carl? >> Yeah. That's the first guy I ever met who had a had monetized a million dollars on YouTube. That was um Twitter

was new. That's how long ago that was.

So long time ago. But uh and they had a

family channel at the time. The kids and the family were all on there and their YouTube channel that blew up.

>> And um but I and when I found out he was

making a million dollars on YouTube, I about passed out because I I as far as I knew, it was cat chasing lasers everywhere. But um anyway, so it could be. And I'm going to say this and I don't know it so I even hate to like say it out loud but there I think there are some laws in some states happening with child creators that they have to be paid because a lot of these families are doing family things and the kids are part of the monetization stuff. So make >> like the whole Duggar.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how much of how big of a deal you guys are on it but >> that's starting to become >> I'm I'm fine with them giving them the money at some point. I just want to make sure that >> that the kid is able to carry it.

Totally. Obviously, if you raise a kid and they're a heroin addict and you give them a million dollars, you're going to kill them >> cuz they're going to overdose and so they're going to go buy a lot of heroin.

And so, you got to, you know, you have to build the character into the individual. That's the best way to leave an inheritance and to handle something like this where the kid becomes. So, the problem like in the old days, we would it wouldn't have been YouTube. It would have been a Hollywood child star, >> right?

>> You know, that made all this money and then what happens? >> Uh, you know, the parents absconded with the money >> immorally. >> And um or the child is just so dysfunctional because of the way they're treated. >> That's right.

>> In the spotlight that they're not capable of handling the money when they become an adult. >> Right. >> And so that's what we got to guard against are those kinds of things.

>> No, I don't think so. >> She's she's trying to figure out how to bless her kids. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

>> There there's nothing in this that even between the lines of the way the words are formed. >> No, it just made me think family YouTube channel like, "Oh, I just read an article recently talking about child modernization and how children now are, you know." But anyways, that's a Yeah. Well, I mean, the Duggars, that whole uh thing on that and uh you know, they were

the the parents kept all the money and the kids >> resent that and that came out in not only the documentary, but we've met we've met some of them and they're they're not happy about it. So, that that's the kind of thing. So, that that's very real.

>> If your kids are a prop in your reality show, >> you know, u that's that's a thing. So, anyway, the u >> character the kid number one and then number two. >> Yeah. teach them. And you know guys, the the book that Rachel and I wrote, it was Rachel's first bestseller and she and I did it together first number one.

>> And it was it's smart money, smart kids.

Teaching your kids how to handle money

bec. And the beautiful thing about using it is it it's not really about the money. It's about you're teaching you're using money as a a methodology to teach

character, to teach generosity, that living with an open hand, that other people are important. you're the axis of the world doesn't run through the top of your little head. And so, you know, to teach work ethic and yeah, you will brush your

teeth so you have some later. You will, you know, you will do this chore. Um,

and not just because you're going to get paid, but just because I said so because you're going to leave my home knowing how to work. That way, you stay gone when you leave. And so, um, you know,

that kind of thing is loving your kids well. And it goes back to what Andy Andrews used to say, and it's my one of my favorite Andy Andrews quotes. I'm not trying to raise great kids. I'm trying to raise kids that become great adults.

And it's a different skill set. We're trying to raise kids, not kids that look like little Steepford children and they are weird because they're they act like they're 32 years old and they're four.

I'm not I don't need that. Okay? I want a four-year-old to act like they're four. But but I do want to raise them in such a way that when they are 24,

>> they're a person of substance, a person of poise, >> a a person of integrity, a person who knows how to work and how to save and how to give. And if you do all of that, then some of this other stuff is not going to matter. >> Yeah, it'll work itself out.

>> It will work. You can't mess it up then.

Y >> you can leave them a million dollars at 18. You can leave them a million dollars at 25. uh you could do it out gradually,

you could put it in a trust, you can not put it in a trust, you could do all kinds of stuff. And so, but yeah, as far as the investment part of it, if it is a substantial sum, I would sit down with a

Smart Veester Pro, click at Ramseyolutions.com, click on Smart Veester. You'll find the people in your area that we have vetted and that we love and that have the heart of a teacher, and they're going to give you advice that sounds ridiculously Ramsay.

[Music]

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[Music]

Sarah is in Ohio. Hi Sarah. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, I was wondering if you guys had

another suggestion to help me clear my

credit report of a car, a credit card that was opened by my husband before he

um decided to take his own life.

>> Oh, wow. >> Um, I'm so sorry.

>> He last Thank you. last summer and into

the fall, he um started to acrewue a lot

of credit card debt. Um, unbeknownst to me, I did not know about any of this until about a week before he passed away. Um, and then after his death, I

found out about a credit card that he had opened in my name only and charged

roughly close to $12,000 worth of stuff to it. Um, when I received the first invoice in the mail, I reported it as fraud because I didn't know. And, um, through their investigation is how I found out that he opened it in my name.

>> Still fraud. And it's because, yes, because he um made two payments to the

credit card out of our joint checking account. Um and because it has my name on it, um they denied it as fraud.

>> And that's they lose. They lose. No, it

is fraud. >> Period. I >> I went a step further asking for the application and things like that and the transactions. >> Yeah. >> Um they provided those to me. Um he mix

>> chase >> big figures. Okay. Yeah. They're scum.

They're scum. >> And lastly, I filed a police report.

>> Yes. >> Um because he used his phone number, his email, and his mother's maiden name on that application because he did not know mine. >> Right. >> Um so, um I've been denied twice. Um and

the police report is the last thing I just sent in last week. >> Yeah. After this, I really don't know what else to do to get this off of my

credit report. >> Okay, I got you. We can handle it. I'm sorry. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Um, so was he um he he uh you said he

committed suicide in December?

>> Yeah. >> I'm so How long were y'all married, huh?

>> Um just two years. >> Oh, wow. >> Been a long two years, isn't it?

>> Yes, it was. So, he was struggling with Was It sounds like he was struggling with some mental illness obviously of some kind. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yep. That's what I'm I'm gathering after the fact as well.

>> Was he being treated for any of it that you know of? >> No, he was not. >> Okay. So, we don't have any >> father also committed suicide. So, I think this is a long history of within his family. >> Oh, Sarah, I'm so sorry.

>> Wow. All right.

>> Currently raising his daughter and she wants to stay with me. she does not want to go home with her mom. Um, and the court system is allowing that. I have not yet to open the estate.

Um, and I know that's going to be an even bigger thing to tackle. To be honest with you, I've had I've called multiple people and I have not even received a call back um of some local lawyers to help me tackle that.

>> Yeah. >> Um, I was waiting past the six months so that all that credit card those creditors um >> that would go away. No, that doesn't that doesn't work. Um they still can file a claim against the estate because you've not you've not you've not handled the estate yet. And so um so what is the

rest of the situation?

>> Um my home is in my home is in my name

um but we purchased another home >> um while we were married and actually in the same neighborhood and we were going to do an Airbnb with it. Um, and we did do that for a short amount of time and we currently have a renter in it now.

>> Um, the home is is in his name financially. >> It is deed to a business name that he started up last fall.

>> Um, that's the estate essentially. Um, >> what's that home worth? >> Because um online it states roughly 450.

>> And what is owed on it?

>> 320. >> Okay. So just for cleanliness sake and

to help you um we can help you with the first thing to start with. I'll come back to that >> but um it's not going to help ultimately

because it's going to land back on him.

So when anyone passes away in any state

what you own as an individual what he anything he had any ownership in any

assets stands good for any debts that he

is responsible for.

Okay. >> And so the equity in that house is going

to stand good for the debts that he has

run up.

>> Okay. >> And um and you that includes the debt

that after we fix this identity theft and it's off of your name and goes back on his name, this $12,000 with Chase is

going to get paid out of the equity of that house.

>> Okay? >> Even though you are not personally liable. So, all we're doing is moving the shell, the P under a different shell. Okay.

>> Okay. >> But, uh, so it's not going away is my point because he's got he's got he's got $100,000 in equity over there. And how much debt did he have?

>> Um, from what I could tell, um, on credit card debt, he was pushing $100,000.

Um, uh, one of his cars was taken back. Um,

like the bank came and got it. Mhm.

>> Um, and so that's >> Did he own anything else jointly with

you or at all? Any other assets, bank

accounts, investments, anything?

>> There was some bank accounts. Yeah. Our joint checking and savings.

>> Yeah. >> Um, but there's not um a lot of money in there at all. And um we did own a truck together, a 2025 um GMC truck. I was

able to get that um title put in my name

by providing the death certificate and then I was able to sell that back to the dealership. Um but I took a $17,000 hit

on that.

>> Okay. >> But I had to get it out of my name um because I couldn't afford the payment on it. >> I understand. >> So I had to I had to dump that quickly.

My credit score last year >> was an 842 before all of this happened and it's a 620 today.

>> Yeah. That's okay. That's okay. We don't need a credit score. only needs a life.

>> Y >> um >> I agree and I have my home and my car is paid for so I don't need my credit but it's definitely hard to look.

>> So it sounds like when you liquidate anything that's got his name on it, it might come close to covering the debts that had his name on it, but you're not going to benefit anything.

You're not going to have any net of anything. It doesn't sound like what you're describing to it, >> right? But you need to do it anyway because otherwise they're going to come after >> the stuff that has both your names on it.

>> So you've got to get the estate cleaned up or those bank accounts and checking accounts that had both names on them and they may come back after that truck transaction >> because that was technically his.

Okay. Even though you didn't benefit, you lost money. Um >> but that had your name on it too, right?

>> Yes. Financially. Yeah. I was the main buyer. He was the co- buyer. >> Yeah. So, you know, they won't come back after you because you lost money. You make money. But your bank accounts and that title to that house over there, >> they're going to eventually come after all that. And you're better off to be proactive to get a a probate attorney,

>> and you're going to spend a few thousand dollars to work this through to get that all done. Now, back to your other thing.

Uh, we've endorsed a company called Xander Insurance for identity theft protection for I don't know 20 years

since before identity theft was even a thing and now it's definitely a thing.

Um, and when someone has the their

identity theft and something occur their identity is stolen, the unique thing about this protection is is they assign a counselor to you, a coach to you that

goes and cleans it up for you.

Okay, >> you did not have that protection when this happened, but

you know someone who can get it done for you, and that's Rachel. I'm kidding.

It's both of us. All right. So, we're going to put you on hold and Kelly's going to connect you with Xander and occasionally as a favor for someone in a

especially hard situation, they will take something even and run it run it through the system and take care of it for you even though you did not have the coverage at the time. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Can't really buy home insurance after the fire. Okay. Right.

>> But but uh but we're going to we're going to do that anyway. And so we'll take care of that and they'll take this case and run it down just cuz I don't like Chase and uh that'll help. So, um

but the but the point is I want you to clearly understand we're really not getting getting rid of it. We're just putting it over into his estate. So, it's going to come up again when you clean up his estate.

>> Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate it.

>> All right. You hang on and Kelly's going to pick up and we'll try to help you get through this, kiddo. Hey, Kelly. Also, set her up with a Ramsay coach as our gift. She's a widow. We're going to take care of her. Okay.

[Music]

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[Music]

Well, buying real estate, selling real estate, trying to get a new place, a lot

of drama out there right now. And when there's drama, there's one thing you need to depend on, and that's facts. And facts are generally not your hyped up friend who has an opinion about socialism. No, let's just find out what was really going on, what's really happening, what the real prices are, what the real interest rates are, and let's try to get those straight up. If

you want to know what that is, just go to ramseolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or on

YouTube. Dallas is in Louisville. Hey

Dallas, what's up?

>> Hey guys, how you doing? >> Davis, I'm sorry. Hey Davis, I'm sorry.

>> It's okay. Not a problem, buddy.

>> Um, starting off with my question quickly here. Um, I'm a divorced dad of two. Just got through the divorce. Um, I'm just trying to figure out what kind of route I should take to build my retirement and future for my two children. Um, I currently have zero in retirement.

>> Wow. Hard times. I'm sorry. Um, >> yeah. Okay. >> What do you make?

>> Um, I've been a stay-at-home dad for the last four and a half years as my wife ran a successful business. I just got back in the workforce in June doing self uh self-employment remodeling that I did before I was retired. I make were currently about four to five a month.

Before I was retired, I was making about 80 grand a year.

>> Okay. So, you're going to be able to get it back up to 100 now.

>> Okay. >> Exactly. >> All right. And so, you're making 100 grand a year. You're 38 years old. How much debt do you have?

>> Uh, zero consumer debt. My truck's paid off. I am only purchasing a house, which I just did for me and my two kids, and I'll have about 40,000 left in my bank after I put a 280 down payment down on my on my new house. >> Way to go. Nice.

>> Okay. >> Thanks. >> And so the finances in the divorce were in pretty good shape.

>> Yeah, we were fine. We came to an agreement. We kept it admissible as we could. Uh obviously mostly for the children and we're settled on that and signed and now it's just me moving forward and said, "No, my >> But I mean, before the divorce, y'all weren't broke is what I'm saying." That's good. >> No, no, no, no. My wife made an a salary of about 25 per month.

>> Yeah. Okay, cool. All right. So, you got

a good head start here. You got a house.

You got a good income. Um, >> yeah. >> You know, make sure you got the emergency fund in place. Um, you don't have any debt. So, that takes you right to baby step four, which is 15% of your

income going into retirement. And that'd be $15,000 a year going into 401ks and

Roth IAS. And if you're running your own business, you could call it a simple 401k or simple IRA, which is a 401k for a small business. uh you can do a lot of stuff and you could easily get $15,000 into good mutual funds a year. And if you do that from 38 to 68, you're going to have millions and millions of dollars.

>> Okay, that works. Um I do also will be getting approximately $80,000 in a couple months from uh my father and I was just seeing what I should do with that money.

>> I'm probably going to pay the house down. I want to get the house paid off while you're putting 15% of your income away. How much do you owe on the house, Davis? >> Um, it'll be about 130,000.

>> Oh, wow. >> That's great. >> And you're getting how much from your dad?

>> About 80,000. What's that from?

>> Uh, he's got a settlement from his mother in a nursing home that they basically gave the wrong medicine and seemed to have got her.

>> Wow. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Okay. So, he's distributing it to her grandkids.

>> Yeah, he's distributing it to me. He owe he already gave my sister a front for their property a year or two ago and he wanted to even us out.

>> Yeah. So So that means you only owe $50,000 on your house now.

>> Yeah, that's true. >> Yeah. You get that thing you get that thing paid off. Boom. Now you got a big

chunk of change to throw towards investments >> uh with no house payment, right?

>> So yeah, throw throw the 80 at the house and then get knock that other 50 out as quick as you can, too. >> And and let's be clear and no debt. stay

away from debt and be investing and be generous and you're going to be in great shape, man. You're going to do fine as far as setting all that stuff up with your Roth IAS and everything. Just click on uh Smart Investor Pro at ramseysolutions.com.

>> Yeah. And above that, once once the house is paid off, that's the baby step seven where you continue to build wealth and be generous so you can go above that 15% at retirement and max out some of

the stuff if you can. I mean, if you can max out your your Roth every year and,

you know, put some money into a 401k or that simple 401k, simple IRA.

>> Yeah, guys, y'all forget to some sometimes y'all are listening to us do this and you forget how this math works.

So, we paid off our house many thousands of years ago, it feels like. And it was 1,500 bucks a month and I was paying about 2500 down on it. And then I got a chunk and I took it out. Okay. So, I

took the 1,500, I rounded up to 2500, and I put 2500 a month automatically coming out of my checking account into a mutual fund. And I kept it a separate mutual fund. I I just want to see how fast a house payment became a million dollars.

It was unbelievable how fast that was a million dollars. It was just a few years. I looked up and I went, "Paying yourself a house payment really is a lot of money. It's a lot of money." And so

when you get that house paid off and you turn it around like you're talking about >> that was that was forever ago. That's thousands of years ago. So now it's like there were dinosaurs in the backyard.

Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. So remember that.

>> It's more expensive these days. So even if you get your house paid off now, think about how much more money. >> Well, I mean, yeah. That was only 2500.

You know, that was a big house for 2500 back then. That but that's when you could buy a house for a box of strawberries. >> I know. You traded two oranges.

>> Two oranges for strawberry and you could get a free house. >> Really did. >> You boomers. You boomers. You don't how know how life really works, but >> you had a great housing market. >> Oh jeez.

Should have seen the income. >> It's my poke. >> Should have seen the income. Yeah.

Rudy's in Chicago. Hey Rudy, what's up?

>> Hey Dave and Rachel, thank you so much for having me on. >> Sure. How can we help? >> We're Well, we just want to say we're huge fans. Started a few months ago. And I also want to mention my seven-year-old also a huge fan who has memorized the baby steps and will recite them to anyone willing to listen. wanted to pass that on.

>> Oh no. Oh no.

>> Rudy, I don't even know my kids can. So that's that's impressive.

>> It's pretty funny. Um but so my question

um I guess to begin so we're basically in full gazelle intensity and on step two. Uh but we do plan to be on steps four and five in about six months.

>> Go ahead. >> And so my questions revolve around my wife who's a stay-at-home mother. Uh, so

my questions are once we're done paying off debt, should we be investing more than 15% of our household income to

account for the fact that she's not building her own retirement and >> she has rights to your retirement.

>> Gotcha. And also, so with that, do you

recommend setting up like a spousal IRA is a >> but not because she needs her own retirement because she's got rights to your retirement. Ask anybody who had a 401k with a half million in it and got a divorce.

>> Okay, >> understood. >> Yeah. So that she's she's in good shape.

She's fine. But yeah, I've done spousal IAS every year just because it was a good way to keep the government's hand off of money, right?

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah. So, yeah, do do Roth IAS for sure in both your names and and as a part of your 15%. Um and then, you know, but I I

would max it at 15. Let's get the house paid off and then let's load up like we were just talking about before we picked up this call. >> Yeah.

>> And you can do backdoor I can still do a

Roth IRA because I can do backdoor Roths regardless of your income. Basically the Roth the right to do a tradition a regular Roth IRA goes away when your household income is up over 200k. And so

uh obviously mine is over that. So, but for me, but what you can do is open an aftert tax traditional IRA, not a pre-tax, an after

tax traditional IRA and roll it to a WTH

30 seconds later.

And I do that every year for Sharon and me >> in the spousal IRA. I don't think many people realize that that's even an option.

>> See that that if Yeah. if there's a state at home. >> My wife does not have an earned income, but I have an earned income in excess of both IRA limits.

>> And so I can fund my wife's IRA or the

case the wife is the working one, the fund the husbands, but either one. It works both ways. But the uh if you're you know my wife has not had an earned income, >> you don't have to make a certain amount to qualify for the spousal.

>> You don't have to make anything. >> Yeah. >> To qualify for the spousal. >> No, I'm saying the spouse that's working though. Yeah. That's making you have to make you have to make more than the two IAS combined two of the combined >> then the amount you're putting in which is not I mean you got to make $16,000 a year you know but or whatever it is but yeah it's nothing but you got to have an earned income in excess of both of them but that's all. Wow. Wow.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host. open phones at88255225.

Samantha's in North Carolina. Hi Samantha. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? Thanks so much for having me on. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> I appreciate it. So I'm 57. Um I'm a

single mom for and have been for about

15 years.

Um when I got out of school, my mom and dad didn't have a huge great financial education. and they're both teachers and I always knew that I would make sure that I kind of did the right things when when I got older. So, I had jobs from

the time I was 14 and when I got through law school when I was 21 or 22, I started to kind of um immediately invest

in my 401k and have done that for 20 30 years. The problem is um circumstances happened

and became a single mom and ended up

with two daughters who basically I ended up putting them through co you know through college and um part of grad school and long story

made short used up most of my income and my retirement to get them through.

Obviously I realized that wasn't the best call at the time. Um,

they're just both amazing kids, incredibly hard workers. >> What did you uh How much did you spend on their education, honey?

>> Between college and grad school. Um, and they took out loans in grad school. I um

probably at least 300 from my 401k and and then

of course >> how much >> throughout about 300,000.

>> Okay.

So, >> and you paid all the taxes and the penalties on all that obviously.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I know in >> Do you have debt, Samantha, with it now?

You said you took out some loans. >> Um, yeah, I have about 65,000 left to

pay off. Um, obviously fully aware this

probably not the best way to approach it at the time. >> That would be an understatement. >> No better. I know. >> Yeah, I know. A, they went to a college they couldn't afford, and B, you should have never used your 401k ever to send a kid to college. There's not a circumstance on the planet that that makes sense. >> I know. >> Okay. But you're there now. Okay. All right. So, what do you make? You said you said law school. That's encouraging.

What do you make? >> Um, I now make about 100,000 a year.

>> Why? >> You've been practicing law for years.

>> I have. Um, I kind of took a different

path and ended up at a firm where I was

able to kind of juggle the raising the girls and and >> Okay. But can now they're gone and they have degrees and they're on their own, right? >> Yeah. >> For the Yeah, just recently. Yep.

>> Yeah. Good. They need I mean good good financially. They It's time for these kids. They kind of got to It's time for you to quit feeding them for sure. Uh, so now can you now can you go make 200?

>> You kind of need to.

>> Yeah. >> What do you have left, Samantha in the 401k? Anything?

>> About 80,000.

So my my question that I was trying to get to and fully aware of all this um no

excuse other than the fact that things happen quickly and something their dad

kind of dropped out at a time when when

>> you made an emotional decision. I understand. >> Yeah, I did. >> I understand. Okay. >> I don't regret it. I mean >> what what is your question then? My question is I'm 57 trying, you know, I

probably have what 10 years to try and make up some >> something and I recently came across the Ramsay program and took financial peace

um last year had and it's fantastic.

Wish I had taken it 20 years ago, right?

But it is what it is. I know better now.

But >> okay, that's good. Um, so my question is

one of your kind of general thoughts is

that you shouldn't until you pay off with the baby steps, but you shouldn't um invest at all until you pay off the debt, which I understand, but if it my question is if it takes me like say a year to get the debt paid off

>> at this point when I'm this timewise >> still mathematically, we're not going to make another emotional decision. Okay, >> I know you're scared. I know you're scared and this thing's this retirement thing's bearing down on you >> and it's causing you to have incredible regrets for the things that have happened in the past, but but all of that aside, um the fastest way mathematically for you to get a good nest egg is first get rid of the 65,000 and make sure you have no debt and you're living on a detailed budget. And anything we can do to increase your income to accelerate both of these things, the the debt, the debt removal and the rebuilding of the nest egg is absolutely vital.

it's time for you to go make some money and you've been putting everybody else first for a very very long time. And uh

you you now have no choice in the matter. You have to put Samantha first.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I appreciate it. And and just to clarify, these two girls are not they're you know, we're talking

incredibly hardworking.

>> I didn't question their character, honey. >> Yeah. >> I just question where they went to school >> and where they got the money. But that's all in the past, you know. I'm not going to beat you up anymore. That's not that's not what we're here for. We're here to move into the future. So the future is >> the future is you go make as much money as you can make. And if you change law firms to go make 200.

>> I kind of love your girls to step up and take on the 65. >> Yeah. Hello.

>> Yeah. Well, they're just I mean, one is >> they're so great.

>> No, they're they're great. They're just one is literally just graduated from Columbia and she's in a doctorate program and so she's paying it's a fully funded program and she's paying all her bills now and the other one is actually

heading to have an interview at NATO and

so they're they're >> that's awesome. I just I No, I hear you and I don't question that. It just would be nice if they stepped in. They don't have to legally because your name's on the on the loan. >> Nor do they have to morally because you didn't the deal you made, but it would be cool if they go to make $300,000 a year if they reach over and take care of this loan. So, their mother doesn't have to retire on Alpo.

>> Yeah. >> No, they're they're that's a non-issue.

These they're both great kids, but they're just literally getting on their feet. So, you know, and >> Okay. So, Samantha. Yeah. So, between now, hey, between in the next 10 years though, for real, >> working as hard as you can, upping the income, >> getting the 65 paid off, and then what's your housing situation? Do you own a home?

>> No. >> No. Okay. >> I did. I did in the divorce. Long story, but >> No, that's fine. So, that would be How long ago were you divorced?

>> Um, probably about 15 years.

>> Okay. But there's there's a whole lot of issues that I wouldn't want to fine.

It's all good. But I got put in a situation where I did the best I thought for the girls. >> Yes. Okay. So, moving forward though, again, >> Yeah. >> getting that debt paid off and then and then >> Yeah. And you got to get you got to get a a home that you get paid off, a little one-bedroom condo or something >> that you get paid for and so forth. So,

okay. Um she loves her kids and um single mom,

warrior princess, doing the best she could. >> Oh yeah. It's I mean >> but let not to pick on her, okay, but to say if you're out there in that situation, you have to make decisions

based on facts, not feelings. And I'm

going to take care of my children at any cost is a feeling.

Those kids could have gone to state schools, not Colombia. They could have worked while they were in school. They could have gone and got scholarships. They had a mother that was a single mom.

And there would have been no debt and no $300,000 cash out.

Okay? And the kids would have been fine >> and still great character >> and still great kids. >> I mean, seriously, >> still great kids.

[Music]

Are you staying on track with the baby steps? Do you know how? Take a quick quiz for free and check your progress and we will give you a personalized plan

to get you on track. Simply head to the show notes and click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the free quiz and we will give you a personalized plan. Rebecca's

in Texas. Hi Rebecca.

>> Hey Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, I am in a pretty interesting situation.

uh and kind of sad as well. Um

earlier this year, a uh

I guess a boyfriend at the time of two years was ready to take the next step

and um he wanted to move to my state and

he ended up purchasing a ranch which is

kind of like my dream property for about a million dollars. paid cash, put me on the deed, and prior to that, I said, you know, I don't feel comfortable doing this unless I am unless we are married.

At that point, he was like, "Nope, we're going to get married." A venue was booked. Um, a ring was purchased

and we move forward. Um, he moves in for

about three weeks and then

tries to almost trick me into signing the deed in of the house into a trust while he's like planning his exit. And he left. So,

which >> whole other set of emotional issues.

>> He paid he paid cash.

>> He did of a million dollar for a property. a little. Yep.

>> And put your name on the deed.

>> Yes, sir. >> And then he took off.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Wild. So, I don't understand how he profits from this. You It almost sounds like he was trying to scam. Is he just flighty or what?

>> I I I think he has some I think he wants

the He liked the idea of this. Um.

>> Oh. >> And I think >> broke your heart. The process. Wow.

>> Broke my heart. I'm left to manage the

whole 20 acres on my own and six animals. >> It's not your house.

>> It's not my house. >> Well, he it's his million dollars, right? >> It Yeah, but I'm on the deed, so technically I am 50% owner and my home

um I rented it out and I have tenants in

there through the end of May.

>> Oh my gosh.

Okay. So, so >> is he asking for the property back at all? Like, are you guys going to sell? >> He tried to, like I said, like when he

was planning his exit before I put all the pieces together, he said, "Oh, someone's going to contact you, you know, to put the house in a trust to protect you in case something happens." >> How long they been gone?

>> Um, six weeks.

>> Okay. All right. Wow.

Okay. So, um I am trying to figure out

what my goal should be in this situation.

>> Should I say, "Okay, let's list the property

>> but before it's listed, obviously have it worked out and I I mean my life flipped upside down." >> Has he been in contact with you since he left?

Um, we we spoke once and that's when it

was basically like this is over. We're not doing this. >> It's so interesting. It's usually him calling us, Rebecca, being like, crap, I bought a ranch with my fiance who I'm not too who I'm not with anymore. What do I do for my million dollars?

>> Instead, you're sitting there on a half a million dollar windfall because this guy's loopy.

>> Yes. So, do I buy him out?

you I take the you know I I obviously

will work with attorneys to have the paperwork drawn up so the property's listed and there's an offer we have um a

plan in place as far as you so at the

last minute well we would that would be my goal if we list it >> would be to have everything written out so there's no question I >> I think this guy's an absolute I mean the the the story you've told me he's an absolute crazy man um and weird and and

everything else.

>> I'm very sad. I'm very sad about that.

>> Everybody was great though, Rebecca.

>> And yet and yet, if I'm in your shoes, I

don't feel entitled to $500,000 of his

money. >> I don't feel that way. Like I feel like I questioned that, but I quit a job. I uprooted my entire

life. And this gesture that he made was

to show his level of commitment and his seriousness for the relationship.

>> So what what were you making at your job? >> Um about 100.

>> Can you go back?

>> I cannot go back there. No.

>> Okay. What were you doing?

>> Um I work in um private aviation

on the kind of operations side.

>> Okay. All right. Um, well, obviously you're going to have to get a career going forward. >> I do have a job. I do I did get another job. Thank you. >> Thankfully, 100.

>> You're making 100. Okay.

>> So, other than the time off in between

that you did not benefit from, how long how long were you out of work?

>> Um, a couple months about three months.

But this current job is not as stable as a company as my previous one, which makes me >> So your point is you've been damaged by this fraud >> and so financially and so it would be

ethical to receive something for that.

>> I don't know. I I >> I think that's right. I think I think you know it cost you it cost you a good job >> and um >> my home that I had.

>> Well, no, you own the home still.

right? >> You'll get it back in May, you know, and you will have rented it. You will have made money on it during that time.

>> So, I don't mind tagging him for 100 grand or something. I just don't >> I don't know how you've been harmed much more than 100 grand unless you want to just be punitive, which honestly is probably okay. This guy kind of deserves it, but I'm kind of with you. I mean, I'm I'm vacasillating while I'm talking to you. You hear me? So, I'm not sure.

This is weird and you as you know, so and you're not the weird one. So, um,

yeah. Okay. I don't want to

I want to be made whole financially plus

a little if I'm you past that. This is

dirty money for me.

>> Right. >> I I got and I don't want to live on this farm, this ranch. >> Right. >> That's that's got bad juju all over it.

>> Mhm. >> Right. If I'm you, I'm just I'm just >> Yeah. I don't I would >> I'm trying to put myself in your shoes.

>> Yeah. Get me out of there. >> I I don't want to I don't want to walk away >> legally. You're entitled to half a million legally, right? If her name's on the >> deed. Nothing this twerk can do about it. He stepped in it. >> But the question is what do you feel right about? Right. From just like a moral perspective and that's being made whole plus a little bit more what you're saying. >> I would try Do you have a ability to contact him?

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. I would have your attorney contact him and say, um, I will sign a deed to you for $200,000 or whatever the number is. >> And then I would go get an apartment and sell off the animals and get out of

this. Get away from this whole thing.

>> Mhm. And then go back to your and go back to your house in May when the move out. >> I just I would just get away from the whole thing. Anything that anything that keeps me in this story is disturbing. I

want to get out of this story. It's a bad story. >> Emotionally, that's probably the best.

>> No, I mean, just generally, I think it's probably financially >> because it's just it's it's you're distracted by evil stuff.

>> Did y'all Did y'all date long term, Rebecca, for two years? For two years long term? >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Long distance. >> But it was a bit of a roller coaster.

Long distance. And this was like the Okay, he's going he he wants to commit.

He wants to take the next step. He He's ready to >> Yeah. There's almost a level of like mourning this life that kind of whipped up really quickly for you. You know what I mean? Like I mean I know you guys were in a relationship for two years, but him moving, buying a ranch, you moved, you quit your job. I mean, you had a a whirlwind within 90 days of this life

that was ahead of you and then it's gone as quickly as it came is what it feels like. So there's >> Yeah. Some whiplash for sure.

>> There there's a whiplash penalty. I'm I'm willing that he should pay. I'm fine with that. and anything that he actually cost you, which is probably probably 100 grand, give or take, and then a whiplash penalty or whatever you want to put on it. And I'll sign the deed for that. It sounds like he's got money.

>> He's had a couple a couple mill.

>> Yeah. So, he could write you a $200,000 check or whatever the number is you've got in mind and you just sign the deed and we're done. Get the animals sold off so they're not hurt cuz he's not going to come back and feed them. You got to make sure they're gone, right? And so, um, and I would put this whole thing way

in the rearview mirror if I if you were if you were my daughter. That's what I'd tell you to do. >> Sucks. Sorry, Rebecca.

>> Yeah, it's awful.

[Music]

[Music]

August is National Make a Will Month.

Like we needed a month to do that, but there you go.

Why do people not make a will? Well, number one reason is procrastination.

43% of adults without a will say they just haven't gotten around to it.

Perfectionism is number two. Writing a will involves big decisions and dealing with your family. That's not perfectionism. That's avoidance.

>> I don't want to deal with that. >> I don't want to deal with that. Or her or him >> thinking you need a certain amount of assets before you get a will. No, you don't. You just need to be 18 and care that the government doesn't conduct your affairs for you, like where your children go if you die. A belief that everything automatically goes to family.

It doesn't. It goes to the lawyers.

Sons uncertainty about the process. Many people say they just don't know how or where to start. Wheels can be confusing, but our team is here to help. Uh you can take our wheels quiz to find out if a simple online will is right for you at ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz.

Andrew is in Colia, Missouri. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> Good. How are you doing, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I own a pool cleaning uh repair

and resurface company here in Colombia.

Um, I am in a partnership with with another guy. Um, we started the business

about three summers ago. Um, I had previous experience with a cool company here, one of the bigger ones here, and I decided to branch off, you know, do my own thing. Um, started pretty small. So,

me and my partner, we started doing, you know, power washing, window washing jobs, uh, pool cleanings, you know, we didn't have too many clients, probably about 10 to 15. Um, you know, fast

forward to the >> Why did you need a partner? second year

>> uh at the time. So, I had I I

technically I didn't. >> Okay. >> Um >> and now you've learned that partnerships are the only ship that won't sail.

>> Correct. That's correct.

>> I'm guessing you you two guys did not do anything like go to a lawyer and have a partnership agreement drawn up.

>> Um initially, no. Uh that happened later

on and it was pretty much too late by you know by the time we did make one.

>> Um there >> why was it too late? What's what's happened?

>> Um so basically um we started sub last year we started subcontracting for this this uh the pool resurface company that we actually bought. Um my partner he was it was owned by one of his uncles. His uncles was higher up there. Uh made good money.

Um, anyways, last year though, I got

connected with one of the my old managers that I actually worked with at the old pool store I worked at, and I said, "Hey, what do you think about coming over here? I'll, you know, pay you decent um and we'll, you know,

basically start taking

um a lot of the clients that that pool company that I used to work for has. So, I probably took half of their commercial neighborhood pools. Um, plus, I don't know, 10 residential and commercial ones have to be done three times a week. So, those come out to 60 visits a week plus repairs. Um, anyways, when we were when

Anyways, I had that that happened last year as we were doing the pool reservicing. So, I got connected with that. Um, at the time that business

basically after we got done subcontracting for them, they said, "Hey, what do you guys think about buying this?" Um, you know, obviously it

was connected with my partner's family, so he was all about it. He wanted to do it all this and I said, "Hey," I was like, "How about we just buy the equipment and we slowly build?" um he disagreed with me and I eventually

just gave in because I you know I was like well maybe this will work out so I gave in. Um you know and I I was nervous

about all of it. Um so anyways fast forward now to this year you know pool the I'm basically running the pool repair and pool cleaning side and you know for example last month we brought in about 49,000 revenue. Um the coat

your pool side he is supposed to be running and he he's done probably two jobs in the past 3 months and has brought in you know we haven't profited anything from it. Why is he not working?

>> Basically, he's he I've confronted him

about it, I say, "Hey, we need to push this harder. We need to do this." And he basically he has he has a kid with his girlfriend and he basically every time I bring it up and say, "Hey, we need to do this. We need to make more money. We're losing money right now actually." He just says, "You wouldn't understand.

You don't have a child at home." And things just get awkward after that. And you know, we go >> So, what does a partnership say about dissolving a partnership? about dissolving it.

>> Yeah. So, our agreement's very vague, unfortunately. Um I actually

What did you Did you go into debt to buy this crappy business that this crappy guy's running?

>> Yeah. So, the business um is was 200 200

260,000.

Um they basically said, "Hey, we won't

we won't uh charge you any interest." basically a five-year plan. You'll pay $4,000 a month. Um, we'll do all your marketing, get all your jobs the first year. And when I heard that, I was just like, initially I was like, "Oh, I I don't want to do this." I expressed it to him multiple times. I said, "This is dangerous. We're going to I >> But you did it, Andrew. But you did it.

You're correct." >> And so, you didn't walk away even though you knew you were supposed to walk away.

>> So, um, the prudent see danger and seek refuge. The simple see danger, move forward, and pay a penalty. and I've been simple and move forward and pay a penalty. So, how are we going to get out of this? You owe these people $260,000.

It's his uncle. Will he let will his uncle let you off and let him have just give him that part of the business? You take the other part.

>> So, the deal with the businesses is that we can give the business back at any time and we owe we can keep the money we made and that is that we can just give it back and there's no more debt.

problem is he doesn't, you know, partner doesn't want to do that, but he's also not working. >> Yeah. No, that's not No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

>> I want you to call the people back and say, I'm going to give you my portion back.

>> And then deed his portion, your partner's portion to him, let him have that business, and you go run your other business.

>> Right. Right.

Yeah. He So I >> Let him sit over there in his own poop.

Yeah. >> Get away from it, Andrew, if you can.

>> You got to get out of this. >> Yeah. >> Walk away. >> Yeah. Well, what I what I do right now, I really enjoy, too. So, I you know, >> you can do the same thing every day.

>> Just take take your portion of the business. He signs off and says, "This is your portion. I'll take you. You can have the portion that your uncle sold us and you can have the debt and you can have you can make all the money in the world. Good luck. And you just turn my turn this over here loose to me and and I'll take this." And we're splitting up.

>> Okay. And if you don't do that, I'm going to hire a lawyer and sue you.

>> Yeah. >> Because you don't work. >> So I >> How old are you guys, Andrew?

>> 26. >> I'm I'm I'm 24 and he is 28.

>> Like I've done this before. Yeah.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So rule of thumb is never do a partnership, >> right? If you are dumb enough to do a partnership, you have to have thorough partnership agreements that deal with when one of the partners is not performing or doing drugs or dies or gets disabled or gets divorced and you don't want to be in a pool business with his girlfriend, okay? Or whatever. So, all that and you don't have any of that.

So, you're screwed is where you are. But if you can go over and sit down with him and go, "Look, >> I'm so pissed off. I can't see. This isn't working. I want you to take this whole thing and I'll take this whole thing and I'll sign over my part to you and you sign over this part over here to me. And if you don't do that, I'm going to go get a lawyer and sue you >> cuz I'm not going to live like this anymore. It's not working for me.

And you have been too stinking nice to

tell people the truth >> and too nice to stand up for yourself, Andrew, of what you know is right and wrong. So, right, let's uh >> this is your time where your backbone gets uh installed. Okay.

>> Right. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, I I I have actually written >> You're not going to do it, are you?

>> No, I I have some I have already something written up. I'm just >> I don't want to write anything up. I'm going to go sit down and have a cup of coffee and go, "Dude, you're I'm going to sign over this whole thing over here to you. It's going to be yours. You're going to sign this whole thing over here to me. It's going to be mine. We're not working together anymore. This is how this is ending. I'm done.

>> Yeah. >> I didn't want to be in this in the first place. I wish I wasn't. >> Your tone could be nicer than that.

>> I don't know. >> But be done. Be >> at least in your head. >> Decisive. Be decisive. Andrew.

>> Clear. >> Clear and decisive. >> And don't talk about all the stuff in the past and all that. All that matters is you're fired. That's all that matters.

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the day is Philippians 4:6. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be known to God.

Teddy Roosevelt said, "Complaining about a problem without posing a solution is called whining."

I love it. All right, Matt's in Colorado Springs. Hey Matt, what's up?

>> Hey Dave. Hey Rachel. How are you today?

>> Great. How can we help?

>> Yes sir. So um I've got a debt collector

on my back and it's for a relatively small amount and I've heard you talk about debt collectors and their scummy kind of tactics and stuff and I've never experienced this. So I was hoping you could help me. To make a long story short, my wife and I have been married about a year and a half now. We had about $38,000 worth of debt.

nine months ago. We're down to 17. We're trying to work through babysat, too. >> Good.

>> Um, this she had a credit card, I guess, that before we got together, she had had and when she was 20, I guess she decided she didn't feel like paying it back and here it is. And I I didn't know I didn't know it was there. Um, >> what's what's the balance >> hanging around? >> It's only $2,300.

>> Um, we never got a phone call, text message, anything. >> If they were going to take you to court, they would have done it a long time ago. It's been 5 years.

>> So, it's been sold to a debt collector obviously. So, you know, I I've called them and I' I've taken your advice. I haven't given them I've given them barely any information about us and I've haggled them and they've told me final offer three times and the best deal they're willing to cut me at this point is after three hours of haggling with them and and 17 different people I've been passed to is 1,600 bucks. I don't know if it's worth just paying the 1,600 but that would be my emergency fund plus we do the OG cash folders.

My wife loves your wallet, Rachel. So we we got a wallet full of some grocery money and stuff. >> Nice. >> Um so that would be all that money.

>> How much you guys make a year, Matt?

>> Um, I'm a UPS driver. She's a dental assistant. I make between the two of us.

She just got a raise. If I work overtime, I'd say we make before tax maybe 70 or I'm sorry, um 95ish

between the two of us right now. >> Okay. >> All right. So, is this the next item in your uh debt snowball?

>> Well, this was an unexpected thing that just popped up about two two days ago.

We um >> you had 17 conversations in two days.

>> Well, I' I've got Bluetooth headphones and 10 hours a day of slinging cardboard that I can argue with somebody all day if I have to. >> So, you this whole this whole thing stretched out over two whole days.

I I mean the the first time I I guess maybe this makes more sense. Back in her old mailing address when this all happened was her parents home. Back in February, someone pulled up to her parents home asking for her. We didn't know what that was about and they didn't tell her parents any information. And then about 3 days ago, someone pulled up and just handed her mother the manila envelope, the manila folder. >> But to your point, you've only been in contact with them for 3 days is what?

>> Yes, ma'am.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Yeah. Let let it sit.

Okay, >> just turn it off because >> the the the the paperwork says September

I think 12th or 18th and you know and that's when it's supposed to be officially filed with the court. >> That's fine. >> But I just don't know how serious to take that. >> I wouldn't worry about it.

>> Okay. What What would you recommend I do? Just keep haggling them until I get a better >> I would call back when you've got the money to settle it. And you know what?

You could settle it for $1,000 today, right? >> I I tried. And I mean, I told them, I said, "Look, I'm doing the I even said, I'm doing the Dave Ramsey plan. I don't have a lot of liquid access.

I got $1,000. Take my money." And they said, "No." Okay, >> that's ridiculous. We can only come down 25%. And after some lady yelling at me for 30 minutes on the phone, she she said she pulled the whole car salesman tactic.

>> Stop. Stop. Okay.

hanging up." Okay. >> And then hang up. We're not going to have anybody yelling at me for 30 minutes over $2,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Just hang up. >> Okay. I don't want to wind up in a situation where I'm in a courtroom now.

>> You're not going to be in a courtroom. You're not even going to go. There's no point in going. You're going to lose.

>> She ow you, but your wife. She owes the

money. Open and shut case. She loses.

Now you're settling a judgment lean and not a debt. Whoop-dedoopy. It doesn't matter. It's a 5-year-old debt. It's It's >> They're saying they can come at us with all their fees and >> Yeah, they can come at come at you with all that if I choose to pay it, but until you choose to get a hold of me and there, you're not going to get it cuz you don't even know where we are.

>> And make sure that her parents don't give out any information if anyone comes to their front door and tell them if they come up on my property again, we're going to have them arrested for trespassing.

>> Okay. So, so they're really just trying to scare me and show them on me.

>> 100%. No, they're trying to piss you off. >> Okay, >> if they can get you very afraid or very angry, you quit thinking with the proper

parts of your brain and you just want to kill them.

>> Okay, >> that's why they call them some more or you think I just let it let it sit a week. Let it sit a week. >> Yes, sir. >> And call them back and say, "I, you know, I talked to somebody over there.

They were a and I know what you guys paid for this. You probably paid about a hundred bucks for this debt, and I'm willing to give you $1,000. That's all I've got. If you want to take that, fine.

If not, there's not going to be a lot of discussion here. Do you want that or not?

>> If you don't speak reasonably, we're going to end the conversation. End the conversation.

>> Okay. >> Call back the next day and do it again.

>> And you're going to you just It's like training a dog.

>> I mean, you just have to do it repetitively, right?

>> Yes, sir. I just My dog's got a shot collar, so it's a little >> That's it. That's it. just just hit the shot collar and eventually the dog figures out we're not doing that crap, >> right? And so you have to train these morons because their training has taught them that if they are unreasonable, angry, fear-based, anger based that they

can get you thinking with the lizard part of your brain instead of the higher thinking parts of your brain. And you do irrational things like give them the money out of your food envelope, which we're definitely not going to do, dude.

But you make 95,000 and you do need to get this cleared up sometime between now and Christmas. So yeah, just get pay you're going to pay something to get it out. And yeah, >> and if you pay 1,600 between now and Christmas and you've actually got the 1,600 by then, that's fine. You're okay.

>> But you don't need to wipe out your emergency fund for it. >> And you you're giving this way more attention than they are.

>> So just back off. Just let them sit.

Just let it sit for a week and call them up. And if you can have a reasonable conversation, fairly short, yes or no, you want to do this. >> Always fascinating that he had spent five years. >> Yeah. >> And it just And >> now we're going to sue. >> I thought it just randomly were you before, you know? It's like >> So just remember that. Yeah.

>> I mean, is it that that it just sits there, it gets sold, all of it, and it just happens to be the file and they grab that file and next is next and >> they just they're just working. They're just work. It's a widget on conveyor belt. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so >> the time is always so random to me.

>> Yeah. >> Five years later. >> It's crazy. >> Yep. >> And you know, we know that this can be done. We bought $10 million worth of bad debt and forgave it all one Christmas.

It was 8,000 accounts.

Each of the 1,000 people that work here had eight people to call and say, "We forgave the debt in the name of Jesus." And we paid 2.5 cents on the dollar for it. I bought $10 million worth of debt for $259,000.

Okay. And so, and it was all accounts just exactly like this.

>> And we just called them up and said, "Your debt's forgiven in the name of Jesus. We'll >> Some of them were like, I don't remember that to this point.

So long." Yeah. It's been so long.

>> You remember that hospital bill you had from five years ago. That was $42 and now it's $486. Yeah.

>> There you go. That's it. >> Yep. >> That That's the whole the whole business. >> But good for you, Matt. You and your wife doing this and >> I'm glad you're working through it, man. >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, y'all are doing the Let me tell you what Let me tell you what you're doing right. You're being very proactive. >> Yeah, >> that's what you're doing right. The The thing I don't want you to do is fall into the trap of letting them control the narrative and the conversation.

>> So, give a little more space in between.

>> Uh even though you've got the time to sit on the headset and throw boxes, don't do it. Okay? Let them sit over there and wonder if they're ever going to find your wife cuz they don't know where she is. and we're going to settle this for $1,000 and that's going to be a really good deal for them and a really good deal for you.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. [Music]

Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for the Ramsay Show Live.

Yep, you heard me right. We are taking this show to you. This is going to be everything you love about the Ramsay Show except you get to be a part of it.

>> Part of what, George? The The Ramsay Show live. Okay. That's what I'm telling them about right now. >> Ramsey Show live in here. >> Nope. We're We're doing it on the road.

You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz September 30th. Are you free? >> The Windy City. I like it that time of year. You know what else I like, George?

I like the deep dish.

>> Okay. Maybe we'll have some deep dish.

You mind if I finish the promo? Is that okay with you? >> Okay. Okay. Appreciate that.

>> Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there. >> George, are you in here talking about TRS Live? >> I am, Jade. I'm trying to talk about it.

>> Nice. So, that means it's actually happening, right? >> It It's happening. If I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition. >> Listen, just tell me when and where.

>> You don't know? Okay. We're going to Orlando. You're going to join Dr. John Deloney and I October 2nd.

>> Yes. Okay, great. I'm going to go pack now. Thanks. >> Please, please do that. Go pack.

>> Uh, hey, George. Uh, speaking of packing, is this like sweater weather or is it not that cold here in Chicago? Wh >> What is happening? Can I Can I please just get to how they buy the tickets?

>> Jeez, I thought it was a good question.

>> Okay, this is not an arena tour. This is a one night only event in Chicago and Orlando. General admission is only 39 bucks. Plus, there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that. But here's the thing. There's only 300 seats available.

So, get your tickets now at ramiesolutions.com/events.

Hey, how come you get to go to both cities? >> I I just go where they tell me, man.

Hey, have have you been there the entire time? >> Maybe. >> Okay. And also, are you reading a children's book?

>> I'm expanding my mind, George.

>> It's how we got those PhDs.

>> Yeah, it's probably where you got that jacket. >> Okay, see you on the road, John.

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## 140. Start Telling Your Money Where To Go | April 10, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey. Jade Washaw number one bestselling author and Ramsey personality is my co-host today. The phone number is88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Savannah, Georgia, Sally is calling. Hey Sally, how are you?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

So, um, we found y'all through our church through, um, FPU about a year and a half ago, and we are on baby step four. Um, and my in-laws, um, kind of

popped this idea to us about 6 months ago. We have we bought our house about two years ago and it has a very large unfinished basement. and they have had

this idea that when they retire, which is going to be my father-in-law's retiring at the end of the year, that they want to kind of put some money into

our house and finish off our basement for them to kind of be snowbirds to be here, go in the south, and then go up north and then eventually kind of transition to living with us in our basement full-time. Um, and I'm not

totally against the idea, um, because we have a good relationship. It'd be great for our kids to have grandparents close by. Um, but I'm a little bit concerned

about the long-term effect of this. Um,

you know, they wouldn't really have an ROI putting money into our house. Um,

>> do they know that? >> On their nest egg. >> Um, yes, we told them that. Um, and my

concern is just, you know, like what happens if they do this and you know in five years from now someone has a stroke and now they need more care and a lot of their money is tied up in our house >> or you decide to move and take a different job. >> And my husband said that to them and they kind of were like, "Oh well, I guess you just mean that two more people are moving with you." >> Oh boy. Listen, there's a difference between having grandparents close and having them in the basement.

That's a major difference. >> And I just I don't know like I I you know we want to be you know I want to be a good steward of you know what we've been given and you know to help out how we can. Um it's more just the long term.

You know we're 33 and we have >> Hey, I got to stop you. I got to stop you because you sound like someone who knows what they want to do but you don't feel firm enough in it that you're you're talking yourself in circles about it. >> Yeah. you you you you know this not a good idea, but you're afraid you're not being nice >> and your your classic southern bless your heart.

>> Um you know, oh, bless your heart. So, no, no, no, no, no. They don't need to move in there.

>> And they there's more downside than upside. >> I think so. >> Yeah. And they I just found out too that they got an annuity and I got George's book and I heard that like that is not good either.

And so I'm concerned about like their financial future and their money. >> Yeah.

decisions. >> That's that's we told them and they said that they don't think they're going to have the money to move. But that this is a snowbird thing. It's not their primary residence. >> Yeah. But they want it to be eventually, >> right? But it's not today. Which means they have a place somewhere where there's equity building. And he is retired from a job. So there should be some sort of retirement something some nest egg. I don't know how big or small.

>> Well, bottom line is whether they've got the money or not >> doesn't determine whether this is a good idea. >> As a matter of fact, since they don't have the money, it further ensures that this is not a good idea. If I woke up in your shoes, I would say, "Mom and dad, we love you. We'd love to have you close, but not that close." >> Does your husband agree or is he fighting for the in-laws?

>> No. No, he No, he does. And I think my my concern is um you know, and we're going to we're actually seeing him next month to like really talk about this in more detail.

I told my husband like if they if I find out you know they have like $5 million in their next nest egg 100 grand to drop in our basement. Is it maybe a big deal?

But >> Dave is right. The money side of this care how much money they have.

>> I don't care how responsible they are.

This is a bad idea because it handcuffs you guys. the exit strategies on this, as you said, if something goes sideways and somebody needs help or whatever, you

you are stuck once you get in this

>> and there's no way out. And that's the problem with this. And you are not being

mean by saying, "No, we have to figure

out some other way that you guys have a sustainable life." That's not mean.

>> Not at all. >> It's not mean at all. Uh you're not, you know, you're scared to death you're not going to be nice because you're a sweet person. Yeah. >> Uh you can just be just smile and be kind and say no.

>> Uh and you don't need to have the meeting next month either.

>> There's no reason to leave these poor people alone. You need to just your husband needs to call his mother and say no.

>> You need to stay out of it.

>> He needs to tell her no, not you. Cuz you'll be labeled the wicked witch of the west forever. >> 25 years ago, I wanted to move in her basement and she wouldn't let me that witch. You know, that's the kind of that's how that stuff gets started, right? >> Yes. And so that starts a whole narrative then and you'll get blamed for it. So no, make him have a backbone and tell his mommy no. And um and don't have

a detailed meeting discussing it. I really would I really would not do this.

>> I wouldn't do it either because >> there's no there How does this end?

Well, >> well then it looks well if you have the meeting, it looks like you're considering it. >> I know. I know. And that that and that's not fair.

That's not fair. That's that's not fair at all. And so, um, you know, no, but e, but if you, if they do move in, I can't think of an exit strategy that works unless both of them died in their sleep. >> No, everything becomes >> other than that, I can't think of a good exit strategy here.

>> No. And then everything becomes >> they need to do that in time for you to move. Yeah. I mean, no.

no, no, no. There's going to be aging problems and disability issues and care issues and you all and boundary issues

and you guys there's like 99 things that

can go wrong and only one that can go right. >> Yeah. And all the risk is on you guys.

It's there's no risk on them cuz they get built-in healthare.

>> The risk is on them as if you sold the house after they did a bunch of improvements. >> Yeah, that's true. >> That's the risk is on them. But still, it's they they they need to use their money more wisely.

>> Yeah. >> And have a good life. that it's fine to be close by, but we need good healthy

physical boundaries. It's a good thing.

Great. Uh man, so um

you know, we are now getting calls in the last three years that in 40 years of

doing this show, I've not gotten >> uh much of much of just this idea of multi-generational housing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. the parents. Uh, we're going to we're going to I mean, I've had the mother-in-law question. We're going to build the mother-in-law apartment, right? Or we want to add on to our house and she wants to give us $200,000 to do that and then um she's going to give us that at her death and she's going to live over there. That question I've had, but now we're seeing this thing of uh the family compound.

>> Yeah. >> You know, and and four families are moving onto one single piece of property and there's no exit. these things uh you

know it and they're doing it because they think it's more affordable to do it. >> Yeah. >> But you guys have got to be real careful. You have to think through what happens in divorce, what happens in disability, what happens in death, what happens when the sister-in-law across the way starts doing cocaine?

>> What happens when you decide you just don't like these people? Well, that could happen Yeah, >> you know, >> this is family after all.

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Ella is in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Ella. How

are you?

>> I am doing great. I hope you can hear me. Okay. And I hope that you guys are doing great, too. >> We are better than we deserve. What's up? Um, so I am actually calling because

my husband and I are working through the baby steps. Um, we're on baby step two right now and you know, we're fully aligned that we want to follow um the steps all the way through. Um, especially right now he's he just turned 40. I'm 35. We have a a four-year-old, a

2-year-old, and I'm currently pregnant right now. >> Wow. Wonderful. >> At 29 weeks. >> Yay.

>> Yes. So, it's it's really great, but of course, we change our mindset because of this understand that we really need to do a lot of planning the future. Um, so

right now getting out of debt is pretty important for us. So, at the beginning of the month, you know, me and my husband, I go through my spreadsheets.

I'm the finance person here and the budgeter. Um, >> we go through a spreadsheet together at the beginning of the month and, you know, we like, "Okay, we're going to make sure that we're strict. We don't buy anything, just what we need." um so that we can put as much as we can towards our debt. But then halfway through the month, my husband kind of goes through a lull and he starts wanting to spend money.

You know, he starts looking at his phone. He wants stuff for his hobbies. Um he's very much into guns and motorcycles and things like that.

right now. Uh my kids go to daycare, you know, two to three times, you know, part-time just to give me a little break. Mhm. >> Um he's really the sole income earnner right now and um he works very very hard. His job is pretty mentally draining. On top of that, he's like in traffic 45 minutes there and 45 minutes back. Um so I feel like the spending is

his stress relief. >> Has he always done that? Has he always been somewhat of an impulse spender?

>> Uh yeah. Yeah. He's a spender of the family. >> Okay. What we have to do is change the uh the way this is being built.

Okay. >> Okay. >> So, I'm going to take you off of spreadsheets because he doesn't do spreadsheet. >> He He doesn't speak spreadsheet.

>> Oh, no. He doesn't. >> And I'm going to put you on our Every dollar budgeting app and there's one on his phone and one on your phone for the same account. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And the two of you sit down at the first

of the month and both of you get a vote,

not just you.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Both of you get a vote and both of you emotionally shoulder the weight

of winning with money at your household.

We have three little babies soon

>> and we need to carry the weight of this

on two adult shoulders.

Okay. Yeah. And based on that, I'm a man, not a little boy, that is taking

care of my family. And so, I'm going to look at this with my wife, who's a woman, not a little princess.

And we're going to make two adult decisions that are good about our future.

And we're both going to speak into that and lay out the game plan on the Everd Dollar budgeting app. And then once we've both looked at that through that lens >> and we both agree to it, then later in

the month, if we decide to be a little boy again, we have to be reminded that we're a man.

if we decide to we be a little princess again. But you're not his mother.

He needs to step up and say for the good

of my family, this is what I'm going to

do for a short period of time here.

We're going to clean up the debt mess that we've made with our immaturity and impulse spending. And that means no motorcycles and no guns right now. And and to take it to even a more practical level, if for and this is for anybody who's an impulse spender, there are practical things you can do to stop that behavior beyond just saying, "I'm not going to do it anymore." Because if that's not working for him, >> the practical thing is to agree and look in your wife's eyes and make her a promise. >> Yeah.

But he can also do like if you know, you've already identified, hey, the temptation is, you know, guns, motorcycles, cars, you know what the temptation thing is. Now the next thing is Okay. Then you've also identified like what the cue is. Like what causes him to get in that mindset?

Okay, it's his his his commute home, stressful work. So then it's up to him to go, okay, I already I already know that I'm setting myself up to be in this situation. Instead, let me replace it with something that's actually helpful for me. So now his new routine needs to be I don't come home and plop on the couch and get on my phone and start scrolling the next product I want.

I go and I mow the lawn or I go and I work on the budget or I go he's got to replace that activity uh with something that's actually beneficial and relieves the stress that he was trying to relieve by spending and that is just I mean that's psychology that's how that's how you change a habit. >> So yeah >> I I completely agree. What?

you went and implemented the detail,

>> right? >> And I want the two of you to agree on the detail.

Pinky swear and spit shake and have a contract between the two of you. This is what we are saying together that makes

our household go where we want it to go.

and then you go do the detail. You execute the detail. But I want him

looking at every line item on every dollar and agreeing this is what we're going to spend on food. This is what we're going to spend on lights. This is what we're going to spend on whatever.

And and by agreeing to that, we're also agreeing that we're not doing anything else, >> right? Not veering off.

>> No. And he's not doing that in advance.

Instead, he's way up above it in the clouds going, I think it'd be good to get out of debt. We got babies, but I really want a gun. >> You know, and and you know, because he's not he's not gotten involved yet.

>> That's right. >> And I want to get him more involved in the detail, not in the execution of it.

You can do the execution. You're the nerd. You're good at it.

>> But I do want him to be involved in feeling the emotional weight of the plan

that is going to be executed, the detail of the plan that's going to be executed.

>> That's right. And even in every dollar when you can see that road map in front of you and you know it's going to take x amount of months and something that you think is small three or $400 a month that adds up to time that this is going to take to finish this. So >> yeah. So we're having a kitchen put in one of the houses that we own. And um

obviously my wife's going to be real involved in that design. >> You think? >> And and so she's real involved in the design. I'm real involved in the design >> because I want to oversee it. Yeah. The builder is understanding the design and

the three of us have gotten indepth

detailed agreement with the kitchen designer of what is going to happen on

paper.

>> Then they build the cabinets.

>> We don't get halfway through the cabinets and then I walk in and go, "Well, that wasn't really what I was thinking." >> Yeah. You know what it's going to be. >> You know, and and that's the proper way to build a house, too, by the way. Build it on paper. before you break ground

>> every detail.

>> And the and if you have 42 change orders as you go up because you didn't think this through, it's the most expensive and slow way to build a house and you'll end up hating your builder and he'll end up hating you. >> So instead, you got a stinking plan and you stick to the stinking plan with rare exceptions. And everyone is aligned in

the detail of what the plan looks like and then someone can go execute the plan. But we all three aren't going to build the cabinets. Matter of fact, none of the three of us, the builder, me, or Sharon are going to build the cabinets.

A cabinet builder is going to build them. But it's the same thing, right?

But we're getting aligned on the idea ahead of time, both strategically and tactically. Strategically is alignment in the philosophy of debtree. Tactically is the alignment of we're not spending this, we are spending that.

>> Yeah. >> And then she can write the checks.

>> Yeah. Well, then you can also both all three have accountability and in their case all too have accountability to be able to say when something's going off plan. >> Yeah. And I appreciate you honoring him for him working so hard but that does not give him a pass on being a man.

Lots of people work hard. Call the ambulance. I work hard. Shut up. Okay.

Seriously, that doesn't mean I work so hard so I get to be stupid. That that's not a that that's not a line that anybody should ever say, you know, but we do. We say, "Well, I work hard. I feel like I earned it." Earned what?

Stupidity. Earned not being rich. Earned

being deeply in debt. What did you earn with this hard work? You know, no, I want to get somewhere with this hard work. I want some dad gum traction. I want to be a millionaire, multi-millionaire. I want to be outrageously generous, blow people's minds. I want to be torn up with this whole thing, guys. And and that's what

hard work should do. Not give me permission to go, I still I worked so hard, so you know, now I get to be a little boy and be irresponsible. No. No.

And by the way, buying a motorcycle or gun is not irresponsible, but it is while you're trying to get out of debt.

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John is in Atlanta. Hi, John. How are you? >> I'm doing good. How are y'all?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> I steal that line, so I hope you don't have a trademark. >> Nah. >> Um, >> I stole it somewhere. I just forgot where.

>> It's funny. Um, so it's an interesting

predicament. It's not really a predicament. And I'm really fortunate to be in the position that I'm in and the Lord has treated me uh treated me great.

But essentially the last two years I've

made about about $300,000 plus or minus.

>> Good for you. >> Um thank you. Um and

it kind of seems like the money just disappears. I'm not a big spender. I mean I've bought big things but I'm not a big spender. Um, but

I just I don't have as much money left over from that as I should. And where the change is is yesterday I made a

pretty big amount of money and I'm I mean the first thing I did was log on and talk to people and how to build a shop on my property and I kind of stopped myself. I was like, "All right, this isn't what I'm supposed to be doing." So I'm 28 with this much money.

I'm trying to take a step back and be like, "All right, how do I turn this into more without spending?" Um, and just wanted some insight on it and >> Good for you. Are you single?

>> I am. Yes, sir. >> Okay, cool. All right. Well, the good news is you don't have anybody to control but you. The bad news is there's nobody to gripe at you.

>> I mean, you have no accountability.

>> Right. Right. >> How do you How do you make the money? What kind of business is it?

>> So, I'm a land broker, so I sell like farm, ranch, and hunting and fishing.

>> Good for you. That's fun. I've got a friend of mine that does that. He makes that kind of money and more. Yeah. Well done. That's great. >> I'm really fortunate to have a job that I love. >> Yeah. Yeah. I get to walk around on beautiful land all day long. That's neat. All right. Our drive on it. Um

>> so here here's the thing.

The emotion that you're having is that

um it's regret.

It's disgust that says I make too much money to have nothing to show for it. Yuck. It's a bad taste in the back of your mouth, right?

>> Yeah. I would say yes. >> Yeah. And I want to use that and say, "Okay, I'm going to lean into that and and use that to say that's going to force me to fix this." cuz you don't want to wake up 10 years from now and

have made $4 million over the last decade and have zero except a new shop in the backyard, >> you know, and that's what you're saying.

You're saying that out loud. So, the first step to solving a problem is recognize there is one. So, you're right on target. >> The way you fix it is you develop a detailed game plan before the month begins.

Okay? And and so download the Every Dollar app and we'll give you a year free on it. Okay?

>> Okay? >> And and I want you to start with saying, "Okay, this is my monthly budget." Now,

your budget is erratic because your income is

>> it's also cyclical, which is why this is important now. >> Exactly. But >> yeah, >> we also need to let a b set a baseline of what it takes to operate survival per

month. Okay. So, if you're making 300

and we said, "Okay, we're going to spend $10,000 a month." That's 120.

>> Uh to operate the household,

>> that's >> that's about what it is right now with with mortgages, and I do say that plural and uh >> not a bad guess then. Okay. So, but if it's if it's a little bit more, a little bit less, I don't care. But some but set that baseline and lay that out and say, "Okay, where does this $10,000 per month go >> or $12,000 per month?" Give every one of those dollars a name. And then beyond that, I would do one of two things. Is I

would have a list forced ranked of where

extra money goes. force ranked meaning the first dollar beyond $12,000 this month that comes in goes to this number one thing until it is completed. Then the number two thing until it's completed. Then the number three thing. And so you've got a a a prioritized

spending list beyond your operating

monthly budget. Does that make sense?

>> It does. >> That spending could be generosity. It

could be buying a shop in the backyard.

It could be investing.

It could be paying off the mortgage, but

you know, I'm if I get an extra 10 grand, the first 4,000's going to this and the next 6,000 is going to this and have that done before you get the money.

You know, it's laid out and and you're just going like doing a to-do list. The most important thing I'm going to do first and then I mark through it and only then do I move on to number two and I mark through it and then only then do I move into number four and mark through it. And I've lived off of that system

for 30 years because I've always had an

irregular income because I've always been self-employed.

>> Yeah. The the I think one of the hard

things for me, which I say hard, it's not I mean it's very doable and I know it is, but so I've been in real estate for for seven years. The first year I made 12 grand. Second year I made 24.

Third year I made 76. And it wasn't until the fourth or maybe fifth year

where it really started to pick up. So I mean I was really scrapping, not scrapping, but I was really, you know, having to somewhat pinch pennies and um

fortunate enough to have a supportive family, but um

like m putting this amount of money in this spot when they're big numbers like this mentally is really tough for me. I know it's the right like I completely agree with everything you're saying. And I'd be dumb if I didn't. But um like I

tithe 10% of all money that I let me rephrase that. I donate instead of using the word tithe, I donate I actually have a question on that if we have time, but I donate 10% of all the money that I make. >> And when that goes away, um and then I have taxes and then after that it's like that number just shrinks, just shrivels up so quick that it makes me nervous that I don't have cash.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, think about I get a I get a uh a royalty check in from a

publisher. That's a substantial number.

And uh I'm a tither. I'm a evangelical Christian. I give a tenth of my income to my local church. And so 10%'s gone and 40%'s gone for taxes.

>> So 50% of that check is gone before I even start the budget.

>> Yep. >> And that's what you're saying.

>> So that that's the world you live in.

>> That's just that's just reality.

>> Yeah. you're just one of those evil rich people, then you should be taxed into oblivion. So, >> um, >> well, you just have to tell yourself that off the top. Like, if you know, oh, I've got $20,000 coming in. You It's like you don't even let yourself feel >> I don't have 20, I got 10. >> 10. Yeah. >> That's just the way your brain needs to start working. >> Yeah. And that and and that 10 is already spent on this prioritized list.

>> Yeah. >> And so, I don't care what you do with the money because I know if you do it on

purpose, you're going to do smart things. >> That's right. you know, you're you're very few people say, uh, I'm going to budget, you know, half of my income to completely blow it. No one says that.

No one does that intentionally. They only accidentally do that because they don't have a plan. >> Well, that's what they do. And I've been guilty of it.

It's the I I account for all the necessities, mortgages, car payment, you know, whatever those insurance and then the rest is just in a pile called treat yourself and then that's where all the money goes cuz you think well I budgeted the most important things but that's the zerobased budget teaching which is >> again I don't care if you treat yourself >> but just write it down item just say you you know and if you want to give yourself the whole thing to treat yourself make yourself write it down and then you're going to go that isn't really what I want to do.

Yeah. Yeah. I I really do want to treat myself, but I don't really don't need $10,000 for that. >> I don't really need $100,000 for that.

>> And and you're in control of it at that point, whether you do or you don't. >> So, it's the old thing Maxwell, John Maxwell says, you know, a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went. And John, that's really this the crux of your question. You tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

And you know, you always have some fun in there. You always have some generosity in there. You always have some investing in there. And fun equals lifestyle.

Yeah, >> that's a lifestyle purchase. That's a couch, a car, >> a trip, a shop in the backyard, >> a gun, a motorcycle. Back nod to our last caller, right?

So that's all lifestyle stuff. And that all works really well once you've gotten yourself rid of the consumer debt. Now, if you got any money left after food, lights, and water, it goes on the debt until you're out of baby step two.

That's scorched earth until you're out of baby step two. You get your your every all except your mortgage debt. You get everything cleaned up but that. But that's not John's question. John, you're the question is very simply you have to tell your money what to do before it

gets there. Some kind of a system, some kind of a plan. I gave you an example of one or it will leave and you will wake

up with this financial hangover wishing you hadn't made that much and have nothing to show for it.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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and start filing. Andrew is in Orlando.

Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> Hey, guys. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, so my wife and I just got married this last November. Um, and we've been

working ourselves through the baby steps. We're in uh step two right now.

Um, and we've paid off more than half of our debt so far, but we have some to go yet. >> How much is that?

>> We have about 19,500 on a car loan and

then about 4,000 in a credit card.

>> That's what's left.

>> That's what's left. Yes. >> Okay. So, you've already paid off 25,000.

>> Yes. Correct. >> Since November. Way to go. >> That's great. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's been amazing. The Lord has been so good. Huge blessings.

>> Um, so my wife is legally blind in her

right eye. Um, and we've been talking through how we can pay off this debt faster. We're attacking the credit card, super aggressive. Um, but the car, uh, the payment per month is about $420 per month. And once we pay off the card, obviously, we're going to take what we were paying on the card and throw it at the car. Um, but a question that that we have is should we look for something

different? Should we look for a car that's maybe slightly older, maybe a little bit uh cheaper that we can pay off sooner? Um, or or are we Yeah. What

do we do? >> What's your household income?

>> Right now, we're at about 108,000 uh per year. >> Tell me where the blindness plays a role in this. Is it impeding her ability to work?

>> No. Nope. She works full-time. She's um in in the healthc care uh industry selling uh yeah healthcare insurance and everything, but it's mainly with like uh the the distances in front of her, especially at night. It's it's hard harder for her to see, but she does have doctor's approval to to drive and everything. So >> So it's depth perception.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Let's I've got I've got a friend that's Yeah. Same thing. And is your issue with the car? What are you trying to do? Are you trying to save money on the car? Or are you saying because of her blindness, she could wreck this car?

Should we get a cheaper car that it's okay if it gets dinged up? Like what are you saying with all of this?

>> Really? Really just trying to pay off the debt. Like >> it doesn't really have anything to do with the blindness. >> Has nothing to do with it. >> Okay. Yes, >> that's good. I like that. So if you paid off 25 since November, can you pay off 25 by November?

That's a great question. I I I think we

could. >> Do you like the car?

>> Yes, we do like the car. >> I would keep it and pay it off.

>> Keep it and pay it off. Yeah. Yeah. The the problem I see right now with it, it's a 2019. It's It's a newer car with,

you know, more sensors and stuff like that. I'm just thinking like, man, like if we do get uh repairs and stuff, can can we afford some of those those repairs on a vehicle like that?

>> Yes, you can. >> Okay. >> Yeah. You're driving a piece of junk.

>> That's why you're and you're a tight >> one.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, if the

Here's how I'm answering the question to give you the the the framework. I use two pieces or we use two pieces of information to determine if someone's car is their problem. And if the car is their problem, I'll tell you to sell it in a heartbeat. >> Okay? Because it's often the problem.

This car, this show sometimes is called the sell the car show. like the answer to every question, sell the car, right?

Um, but the number one, you do not want

all of your vehicles added together.

Anything with motors, wheels, that includes your stinking lawn mower, your seed, whatever. All added together, your

camper that's in the backyard, all if it's got a wheel or a motor, all your value added together should not be more than half your annual income, >> which would in your case would be $56,000.

Yeah. >> $59,000.

So, um you know that that's what I'm looking at. Uh and yours is not. So, it does not violate that. The second thing is if there's debt on the vehicle,

>> can we be 100% debtree except the house

within 2 years without selling the car? And if we can,

do we like the car? Then yes, keep the car. But for instance, in your case, if the car was >> uh your rate of debt reduction,

>> you're easily going to be within that.

And the car and your cheap car is less

than half your annual. So, you're in pretty good shape. The only difference was she just had a nicer car than y'all when you just got married. And so, she she won that battle and it did but it had debt and yours didn't have debt.

And so, now we got to clean that up. But I think at the end of the story, two years from today with a fully funded emergency fund and your money going into retirement, we're going to be glad she's in a pretty good car. Uh especially if she's got some of the newer features on that car with her depth perception issues. So yeah, I think I think I'm keeping it.

>> And um but you you know, you can sell it

if you want. >> If you just wanted to be free very very quickly, >> you wanted to be free super fast. It's not you're not doing anything wrong by selling it. But here's what's going to happen when you do. You sell it. You get a $3,000 car and you're debtree in six months, uh, four months, and then you build an emergency fund. And then what's the first thing y'all are going to do? You're going to start talking about upgrading these cars cuz they're crappy.

>> And you're going to do that with cash.

And so you're still going to end up two two and a half years from now in the same place that you are now with a paid for decent car. >> Yep. >> And so I you know, it's not it's not the car is not violating anything here. It's just kind of part of your own story.

>> Yeah. I agree. >> Grace is in Fort Collins, Colorado. Hi, Grace. How are you?

>> Hi. Good. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So, I have a question related to the gazelle intensity of paying off a house.

Um, we, my husband and I save anywhere from 100 to 150,000 a year um after

expenses and everything. And it's hard to not kind of look at the numbers and and think we have about 500,000 left on our house right now. um to think, you know, let's just try to pay this off in five years. Um but my husband, you know,

he's kind of been looking more into the investment side of things, too. Um as far as so whatever we make, should we do a portion of that towards the house and the rest into investments if we're already doing 15% into retirement?

>> 15% into retirement is all you should be doing. No more.

>> Okay. >> The rest of it ought to go on the house.

Rest of it ought to go on the house. So this 150,000 you're putting on something else, how much is in that account?

Um, in what? Well, so that's what we get basically at the end of the year. A lot of it comes from bonuses.

>> Yeah. But you're putting 15% away. And then you said in addition to that, you're investing 150 grand.

>> Well, that's just what we have in cash saved at the end of every >> Where is it?

>> Um, well, high yield savings.

>> How much is in that account?

>> About 70,000 right now.

>> 70. How did 150 turn into 70?

So, at the end of every year, well, it it'll be about 150,000. >> So, you just stockpile it until the end of the year, and then you decide what you're going to do with it. >> Well, at the end of last year, it was 150. How's it 70 now?

>> So, we just moved last year, so we put a good chunk of money down into the house, but we just kind of accumulate. And then year-end bonuses, >> any money above 15% should immediately go on the house.

>> Okay. >> Not in savings.

>> Okay. And nothing like diversify in other types of um stocks or mutual funds or anything in retirement?

>> No. >> You're already investing your 15%.

>> No. You want to know why? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Because the data tells us it's the fastest way for you to be a millionaire.

We did the largest study of millionaires ever done at Ramsey. 10,167 of them.

>> And the typical millionaire in their first one to5 million of net worth sounds like this. They it took them 12

to 17 years from the time they started getting serious about getting out of debt and building wealth to get there.

They paid off their house in in 11.2 years on average. And there here's what their portfolio looks like. Let's say they've got a million6 in um net worth.

Uh they've got a $700,000 paid for house and 900,000 in their 401ks and or other

investments. But the paid for house and

the for and the fully funded for the 15% going into the 401k is what we found every time.

Every time we did not meet millionaires that said, "Oh, you know, we kept a mortgage and that caused us to have great investing and that made us millionaires." Nope. They got rid of the mortgage like it was a cancer cuz it is.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host. Joy is in Los Angeles. Hi, Joy. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Yeah, we are recently debtree um except

at our mortgage and I wonder Yeah. and

I'm thinking if I could afford to go to

Europe to watch Wimbledon. I really love watching tennis and I really want to do it. But then um my husband and I were

talking last night and when he saw like how much we're going to spend me and my it's only going to be me and my son and he's like uh that's a little too much.

It's going to you know delay our our

baby step number three.

>> So you don't have any money saved?

>> We do. We do have money saved but then

you know it's gonna we I will take the money from there and so it's going to delay our >> Okay. So you have an emergency fund saved of how much?

>> Uh we have 15,000.

>> Okay. And um how much do you need in your emergency fund >> uh for the trip? >> No. How much does the e the 3 to 6 months of expens?

>> Oh 24,000. That's so that's the target

and your household income is what the target >> um about $320,000 or sometimes 350 if my husband goes on

overtime. >> Wow. How much does the Wimbledon trip cost?

>> Well, um the tickets are about $1,000

for my son and I. And you know when we were the ticket? >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. The whole trip. The whole trip. No, you're not going to London and buying a Wimbledon ticket for two grand.

>> I'm talking about when you price this whole deal out, the tickets, the airfare, the hotel, how much will it cost?

>> Oh, so the total is 9,000.

>> Okay. >> Oh, okay. That's right. >> So, the air the the airfare alone because of what's happening, it's about $4,000. >> Listen, I'm not I'm not mad at the number. I just wanted to get to it. And my question is with the $320,000 income

>> and and when when actually when do you have to have the $9,000 by?

>> So we have the $9,000 already. No, you don't. Um you don't have you have 15

>> of 24. So you don't have 9,000.

>> You're you're Let's Let's clarify real quick. The definition of the emergency fund is for emergencies. Wimbledon is not an emergency. So you can't say I have 15,000 for Wimbledon. You don't.

you have zero dollars towards Wimbledon.

My question and what I'm trying to solve for you is how quickly can we get the $9,000 uh on a $320,000 income and still

make progress towards baby step three?

Because the the next question I have for you is the 23,000 that's your goal. Is that three months of expenses or six months of expenses?

>> That's going to be three and a half expenses. >> Okay. So, I go back to my first question. I want you to have three months of expenses in order for this to even be something for you to consider.

>> And then you would have to pay the 9,000 cash on top of that. Not out of that, on

top of that. Does that make sense? >> Okay. So, what do you guys have planned in the next two months that you can take off of >> your calendar and cut your budget to bare bones >> in order to finish the emergency fund?

Because, you know, Wimbleton's in June >> and so you've got time, July. You've got time. Yeah. >> And um so I think you can probably if you went to scorched earth, Jade's point is you probably can do both.

>> You can finish the emergency fund and come up with the money to go. It looks to me like you can >> because your income is so fabulous.

>> Yeah. >> So, um yeah, work extra. Have you got anything you can sell that you'd like to get rid of to get to cause this to happen? Have you got you know, but I'm going to take every thing out of the budget and go scorched earth to be able to live to be able to do this trip if it's what you want to do. Here's what I won't do.

>> I won't declare a trip to Europe an

emergency. >> No, >> it's not an emergency. >> No. >> Okay. I I wish it was, but it's not. Uh I could declare some things I want an emergency, but they're not emergencies.

And so I have to, >> you know, at some point I've got to categorize these things properly and say one is a wish, a want, a dream, and one is a necessity.

>> Being ready for Murphy. if it can go wrong, it will is paramount for families

to get ahead. And you you guys have been making good money and been broke for a long time and you've finally gotten yourself out of debt and you're finally saving money for the first time in your lives probably. >> And let's talk specifically about why it's important. Dave just hit on the part that this is your emergency fund.

You need it in in case you know emergencies arise. But I do believe that when you're in a in an income situation like you, it's very easy to get lazy and

very kind of like, "Oh, it's okay. I can afford it. I can cover it. If something pops up, we'll just cash flow it." You've got to guard against that, especially because you have an I higher income. >> And that's the part where I I think >> Yeah, agreed. >> You gota you got to be extra careful.

>> So, folks, here's the thing. If you have no money, none. Now, not she that's not her situation, but if you're sitting there with no money saved because you did stuff like this, you know, and not her situation, not picking on her, but have you ever noticed that when you're super broke, your life looks like a country song?

Like everything that can go wrong will.

It's like you have a Murphy attractor beam, you know? It's like beep beep beep beep. If it can go wrong, it will. You know, it's like crap breaks, people get sick, the dog goes out in the street and gets hit. Every I mean, it's like a country song. Everything that can go wrong will. It's horrible. And have

you ever noticed that when you get a little money, all that stuff leaves?

Like, if you got if she's got $25,000 and makes 320,000 and no debt, you ever notice that? It's a different kind of song. It's like smooth jazz now. I mean, you know, it's not it's it's all that crap leaves. I don't have anywhere near the emergencies now that I've got some wealth. My life used to be one freaking drama after another.

And I don't have anywhere near those emergencies. I don't I think I think an emergency fund is Murphy repellent.

>> I Well, >> I think it keeps him away. It >> I think it does, but more than that, I think uh >> it changes the definition. >> It changes like I'm the type of person I am never going to touch the emergency fund ever. I don't care what I do for an emergency.

Not even for an emergency. I will do whatever. Move hell and high water to make it work. >> Yeah, I agree.

That's Sharon. She We have an emergency fund for our emergency fund. >> Yeah. >> So, we never touch it.

You know, I mean, it's like that. But here's the other thing is this. When you got a little margin in your budget, a flat tire, you just fix it. >> You just cash flow it.

>> But when you're broke, a flat tire is an emergency. >> You know that the alternator goes out on the car, it's 500 bucks, 400 bucks. You just fix it. You don't think anything about it.

But when you're broke, every little thing like that IS LIKE, "OH, GOD, THE WORLD'S COMING TO AN END." And

and the drama queen's doing a dance between your ears. I mean, it's just like >> But yeah, so it's very interesting that

the the well the the overarching thing

of what I'm saying is when you get a little bit of money and you have a system >> and you're not just cold, hard broke, your anxiety level just goes way down >> because the drama goes way down. But if you get a little bit of money and you don't have a system, you're going to be looking up. >> Then you're going to be back to having no money again. >> Uh-huh. That's why a third of people who make $250,000 or more are living paycheck to paycheck cuz they thought they could out earn their stupidity.

>> Oo. I tried it. It didn't work. Maybe my stupid was just bigger than my income, but I tried it. It didn't work.

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Michael is with us in New York. Hi, Michael. How are you?

>> Hello, Dave. Thank you so much for taking me. >> Sure. What's up? >> I appreciate it. Uh, I'm 52 years old.

Um, basically starting over. I had some major health issues and I've been permanently disabled for the last 16 years. >> Whoa. >> Uh, yeah. I've got the skills to rebuild a highinccome trades business, but I'm also gaining traction as a published writer. If you were me, where would you put your focus for the next year?

>> Uh, what was the nature of your disability and how have you overcome it?

>> Uh, well, I was a teacher and I taught trades. I taught um welding, metal fabrication, heating, ventilating, and air conditioning and uh I became environmentally ill from the welding fumes. >> Ah, okay. >> So, I had a neurological disorder basically paralysis. >> Whoa. Um, and I, you know, I've I've

learned about, uh, juicing and things like that, and that kept me alive. Um,

and I had, thank God, a long-term disability policy that t my salary all all these years.

>> And, uh, about a year and a half ago, they offered me a settlement. I didn't take it. And then I I looked at my wife one day and I said, you know, I said, I can't live like this anymore. And I decided to call the insurance company.

Um, they offered me the same settlement.

I decided to take it and I took some radical responsibility and uh, I lost 40

lbs. I got off oxygen. Um, and I got a

clean bill of health from my doctor and I'm ready to rock and roll. >> Wow.

>> Yeah. So, the the the the nature of the disability is completely healed and gone. >> No, I mean, I'm still probably permanently disabled um, on paper, but

it's not affecting me anymore. I can breathe at 7 L capacity, even if it's only with one lung. >> Okay. >> Um I I feel great. I green juice every single day. I ground outside. I jump on a rebounder. I'm doing everything that I had to do um to gain my health. Um like I said, I drop 40 lbs. Yeah. The whole thing, man. That's amazing.

>> Congratulations. That's amazing.

>> Thank you. Thank you. I've offer

>> I can't imagine you going back to welding.

>> No, I'm not. I'm actually a master electrician by trade. Um, so so and and

I own I basically did electrical work and mechanical work. So I was planning on maybe um you know starting there with a service business just a high-end business basically myself.

>> Why wouldn't you?

>> While I write. >> Yeah. Good. >> You know um you know it's I I want to be

cautious because of my health. I don't want to go backwards. I still have a young beautiful family. No.

>> So I want I want to do it as intelligently as possible. basically my question was basically you know if it was you like what steps would you take not only to ensure that that I I don't overdo it cuz you know I figured I could probably do it three days a week um 6 to 8 hours a day >> I think you I think you are an expert at monitoring the metrics that are associated with your health you've rattled them off to us it's been the whole sole focus of your last decade and

I don't think you're going to overdo it because I think the instant you do, you're going to know it.

>> That's very true. >> And it's not a permanent thing. It just would be fatigue and you'd say, "Okay, I got to take a week off or I got to slow down back to two days instead of three." Or you're going to know the metrics are going to talk to you because you're doing such a good job of managing your health so intentionally.

Congratulations. So, yes, I think the electric electrician thing is a very

good paying gig. it's 100% predictable

that you're going to go get some money where the publishing the publishing is very hit or miss and um as you know it

takes a while to get it moving and so I think it you know your your foundational underpinning is the electrician and then the icing on the cake the gravy on the biscuit is the publishing stuff and if the publishing stuff finally takes off enough that you never have to do the electrician again so be it that's awesome >> is the primary is the primary drive for you financial or personal fulfillment at this point? >> Uh, at this point financially I I don't have to worry about money at all. Everything my home is paid everything I own for is completely paid for.

My home, my cars. >> Um, I have a brand new truck that's paid for so I can use that to start work. I mean, I you know, I I don't want to buy a van right away. No, >> I want I want to build up to a van when I have the cash to buy it.

That's that's just the kind of person I am.

>> I agree. >> And I would do that as a foundational thing to give you patience with the

publishing thing >> that is also going extremely well I might add. >> How much are you making? What's extremely well? What are you making? >> Uh, well, I'm not really making any money from it yet, but >> then that's not extremely well.

>> Okay. So, so basically >> we measure this on money.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Now, 150 or so an article is not not paying any bills yet. >> No. No. But that's it's fulfilling and that's what extremely well means. And you enjoy it and that's what extremely well means. And you're getting some notoriety. That's awesome. But you're still working for free.

>> I basically Yes, I am. >> Yeah. And so you're not ready to turn you're not ready to turn your financial destiny over to $150 articles. So the

the the working for as an electrician running my business could pay for all that for pretty much >> it pays for your life and you got to you can continue to or rebuild and build a good life. A and then again if the

publishing ever the income from publishing ever starts intersecting the line with the u electrician then you can

start to slow down the electrician and you know cuz now you're making a living publishing things.

>> Awesome. And that's where you need to get to, not just the fulfillment piece, >> but that's that's the problem. It's they give you uh it's all it's so gified.

They give you feedback and make you feel like you're really winning and you then you add it up and it's like I made $400.

I >> didn't make any money.

>> But to your point, it's it's if right now his success is defined not monetarily, but that's good because he's got the other thing given money. >> And what a great overcomer's story.

>> So good. >> So such a great story. I mean, everything from the trampoline to the juicer, man. I mean, that's that's very very cool. >> Congratulations. That's taking the bull by the horn. Yeah. I'm not going to I'm not going to be defined by this. I'm going to define it. >> Yeah. >> That's a big deal. Dustin's in De Moine,

Iowa. Hi, Dustin. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, well, I just had a quick question um with the snowball method and cards that have deferred interest. Um, I just started the snowball method about 6 weeks ago. I've been able to pay off about $4,000 worth of debt so far.

>> Good. >> Um, I have a credit card that I put a

washer and dryer on. Uh, it would have been 18 months ago. The deferred interest is going to be due or it's going to hit in next month. Um, it would

take about $900 to pay that off, which I can do. >> Okay. So, wait a minute. Are you saying deferred interest? Meaning the interest has accured but they've just not uh build you for it yet.

>> It hasn't been applied to the to the purchase. Correct. >> What if you pay it off? Does is there no interest if you pay it off early?

>> There'd be no interest. >> Yeah, you want to do that.

>> Okay. So, I can I can pay off deferred stuff um versus just the smaller stuff.

I can kind of go out of line there. >> I I would you know just temporarily.

It's only 900 bucks. Yeah. The zero that's nothing down. 0% interest until X

and then they back charge you at 38%.

Yeah, that's how they screw you. And 89%

of those contracts, people do not pay them off in time. >> Yeah. If you can get out of that, that's wonderful. >> So, yeah, you want to you want to knock that in the face. Uh and and you want to do it a month and a half, two months early, >> so there's no question. >> So they don't say, "Oh, we didn't post it and now we really are going to charge you the interest because our the mail didn't get here or bull crap." Okay. Pay

it and get verification a month early that it's paid.

>> Okay. >> Cuz they're going to try to screw you. It's what they do.

>> Yep. Nope. I I agree.

>> Yeah. And clear clean them up as fast as you can. I don't know how many of them you got, but I Yes. I want to get rid of those.

And if you need to shift your data snowball around just a little bit because you're saving, you know, probably 30 or 38% interest, something like that. 20% over the course of however many of how many months and that kind of thing. Yeah. That's going to it's 100% knock it goes away if you pay it early.

You know, the rooms there they went, right? And uh you know, you buy this couch and not pay for it for 24 months, no payments, no interest. And yeah, that 24 months goes by and an eye blink and then you get charged all that back and almost nine out of 10 people don't do it.

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Well, I wish we could get to every call here, but we can't. The lines are always full, and I know a lot of you get a busy signal. Sorry about that. We do have an alternative, though. If you'll go to ramseysolutions.com, you'll find our Ask Ramsey AI tool there

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It's artificial if you hadn't heard. it's not real. And so, uh, it's going to produce an answer almost as snarky as you would get here on the air. And so, we haven't been able to add quite the sarcasm level to it yet that we have in person, but we're working on that.

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Steve's in Green Bay. Hey, Steve. What's up? >> Um, thanks for taking my call. I'm really excited to talk to you. did. So, I have a very simple question. Um, I'm 62, retired. My wife is 60 and she's

going to work for four more years. I want to know how much we should be contributing to my Roths now because my

investors are telling me that I have a $500,000 um in my investments and there's I only have 150 in Roth and the rest are 401k and IRA and I don't want to create a tax liability for my kids or grandkids. I have two children and four grandkids, but I only have an effective tax rate last year of 10%. So, I just thought I should be contributing more to Roth and they said I'm good because of the way things are going to roll. And let's get your opinion on that.

>> Well, when I first started this stuff with when the Roths first came out, it was after we started this stuff, the Roth came about. Um, I was so excited

that, you know, I was in my 30s and 40s that I could have tax-free growth and I

was pushing everybody to get taxfree growth and I'm pushing me to get taxfree growth and so I had everything in Roth and then anytime I could convert something to Roth I would and so I was always moving into Roth because I was getting tax-free growth. Um, now that I'm 65, it suddenly has occurred to me that there's two other benefits to having everything in Roth, uh, that are even more powerful than tax-free growth

or add to, it's not more powerful, but they add to it. Number one, at 73, I don't have RMDs, required minimum distributions, >> right? >> So, all of your 401k traditional, you're going to have to begin to withdraw at 73 under the RMD rules, >> whether you want to, >> whether you want to or not. So, and of course, the more you have in traditional, the more that check is going to be.

>> The second thing is, and in my case, all of mine's in Roth.

The second thing is is that the Biden the Joe Biden passed the Secure Act and the Secure Act says that all inherited

IAS in other words if you name your kid as a beneficiary on your 401k or your IRA and it's traditional uh if they

inherit that they have to withdraw that money within 10 years on a 10-year

schedule. So they have required minimum distributions. So, they're going to pay income tax on 100% of that and they have

to do it over a 10-year period of time from the time of your death.

>> On Roth IRA, none doesn't apply because

there's no tax to you.

>> And that's why this conver this came up because my father passed 5 years ago, just left 50,000, but I'm still taking that out over time. >> Yeah. You're having to do the Biden withdrawals. Yeah. >> Within 10 years. >> And I just don't want my grandkids or kids because we live simple. We can live on 50,000 a year, have zero debt, never had. And I just want to leave a legacy.

>> Well, here's an interesting calculation.

It it's tempting to move the money that you have in traditional gradually to Roth to keep you from having bracket creep. >> Yeah, >> that's a tempting thing. And you could run those numbers out. You're probably going to have to get a different investment group to help you with that because apparently your guys don't think this way.

But um >> yeah, >> and if you want to get another opinion, you can go to Ramsey Solutions and check with one of our smart investors and have them run the numbers out with you. But you could run, you know, like like bump a couple of brackets >> but not go all the way to 40, not go all the way to 39, right? Um that that's one way of doing it and do a little bit a year and kind of dribble it out.

rate of return and an 18% rate of return on S&P. Now that's not normal, but we've had a ridiculously good last three years, okay, in the market. If you had just moved it all and paid the taxes

three years ago, you'd have had all of

that 60% of growth >> with no taxation.

>> Sounds like you're a proponent. I mean, I >> Well, I mean, it's interesting. I I But, you know, if if we have normal market growth of 10 or 12% a year, right? Um, it does take it takes you a little while to get it back, but if you're healthy and you're 62 and you move seven or

800,000 over >> and that creates taxation of what two or 300 thou 200,000 bucks, you're going to get that 200,000 back in taxfree growth so freaking fast.

>> Well, I was telling that the very least I'd like to do is while my wife is working and has earned income, I can do this for at least three or four more years. >> I would do Roth IAS.

Absolutely. For sure, 100%. Anybody tells you to not continue to invest in Roth IAS, it's only what 80 8,600 bucks at your age, right? You can do >> I think you agree with I think you agree with everything Dave is saying. I think your hangup is that that's not what your tax prof.

Yeah. >> Yeah. But I think you can crunch the numbers out and understand it yourself with somebody and you'll figure out what I'm figuring out here.

>> I I I actually I took a call on this like a week ago. Maybe you and I were on the air together. It was a guy had he had like seven or eight hundred grand and I I sat there and kind of was telling him, "Oh, I remember do do it, you know, kind of do it a little bit at a time and don't get bracket creep." And then it's suddenly at the end of the call, it occurred to me, >> you're missing out on all of that opportunity cost on that tax-free growth all those years.

While while you screw around with, you know, dribbling it out to avoid bracket creep over 5 years, you've all that money now has grown has been taxable. All that growth is taxable and it wouldn't have been taxable. So, I mean, I I think there's something to be said to doing it all and rip the band-aid off.

Mathematically, I think you might come out ahead. I You got to run some numbers to be sure. I'm not positive, but it's something to consider and something to look at. And I would get a different set of eyes on it cuz you're in anytime you

have an investment professional in your life, their job is to teach you, not to tell you.

And if they don't teach you, in other words, they start saying all that stuff, you go, "Okay, wait a minute. You're telling me I don't want to save in a tax-free account?

>> Of course, I want to save in a taxfree growth account. What kind of you know what do you you know?" Oh, no. You know,

yes. So, yeah, I do a Roth every year

and my net worth's hundreds of millions.

Okay. The building I'm sitting in is 600 million. Okay. So, the uh you know, and

I do Roth backdoor Roth Sharon and I do them every year. I'm going to keep the government's hands off of every stinking penny I can legally because I don't want them to buy a $22,000 toilet seat with my money. And that's what they do because they're idiots up there. And so I I just I don't want to give them money. It's not good stewardship. Not if I don't have to legally. And so I'm going to do It's the time of year when I'm pissed off right now. It's tax time.

So just just bear with me people. But that's it. I mean that's the thing. >> Yep. Absolutely. So you got to but >> the Roth IRA moving everything to Roth people >> that ain't bad >> or or overtime >> it's it it gives you two things I had not considered early on and that's no RMDs and no inherited IRA forced withdrawals >> and so your kids get a Roth IRA zero

income tax on it. Now neither one have estate tax on them. That's not an estate tax issue, but it's an income tax issue for your kid cuz it's a taxable account that they inherited or an non-t taxable account that they inherited. Something to think about. And um think about the

what if they held let's take a million dollars and they hold that seven years after you die because they don't have to withdraw it under the Biden rule. >> It's going to double. >> It's going to be another million dollars. >> The million will be$2 million. >> That's right. And then what if they hold it 14 years? >> Oo, >> it's going to be 4 million. >> Building that wealth >> and all of that is without taxes.

>> Yummy, yummy, yummy, honey.

Heat.

Heat.

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Might not be in all states.

>> Okay, today's question comes from Nicole in Colorado. She says, "My husband passed away unexpectedly in 2021.

>> Sorry about that. Thankfully, he had a $1.5 million life insurance policy,

which I tithed on when it was received.

I was able to pay off our home and put 1 million into mutual funds and retirement investments. I pull from the non-retirement funds as needed for expenses. How do I tithe on the money I

withdraw? I know I'm supposed to tithe on an increase, and I want to make sure I'm honoring God with the blessings he's provided. Um, it sounds like you already

tithed on the money when you received it. says, "I tithed on the insurance policy when it was received." >> You'd be tithing on the growth. If if the policy I mean, if the investments

made $120,000 in growth, >> Mhm. >> then that's your income for the year.

>> And you would tithe on whatever they grew. >> Oh, I see what you're saying. And you could, you know, you could do it one of two ways mathematically. You could either I don't tithe on investment growth until I take it out.

>> Okay. because it's it's tied up in there. So, I've got retirement accounts that have grown and I have not paid on that growth until I use that money.

Okay? I don't tithe on the increased value of real estate >> until I sell it.

>> Okay? That's when I would tithe on it.

And so, what I would tithe on in your case, Nicole, is whatever money you're taking out. If you're only taking out growth, okay? So, let's say you've got the million dollars in there and let's say it made 10%. That's a $100,000 growth, but you're only pulling out 60,000.

Then I would tithe on the 60,000.

>> If you're pulling out 120,000, but it

only grew a 100red, then I would tithe on the growth, the 100, >> not the >> not what you pull out. But what you pull out is the if if you don't pull out all the growth, I would only tithe on what you pull out. That's what I personally would do. Now, let's cloak this in an

understanding that um

you can't outgive God. Number one, so

giving you never hurts. You're never going to be you can't overgive.

>> That's such a technicality. >> Yeah. And and number two, don't get caught up in legalism because God

doesn't love tithers more than he loves non-tithers. He loves everyone. Okay?

And um and and so if you mess this up,

he's not gonna like, okay, it's not it's not a salvation issue. You're not going to get smacked around. Okay? That's not that you can't that's not he's not a He

loves you. He's got a plan for you. He has us to give not because it's a rule

and not because we're trying to please him. He has us to give because we are

the best version of us when we are givers.

We are more like Christ, Christlike who

gave his life, right? You know, and and the father gave

his son. We're more most we're more like

them when we are giving. And that's what he wants to tap into by teaching us to be givers. And the baseline for those of us that are people of faith is a tithe, a tenth of our income. But don't get caught up in the legalism of it like you're trying to please God with this.

He's already pleased. Honey, you're a widow. You have a special place in the scriptures to be taken care of and loved and blessed and prospered. And that's what your father wants for you. So do this with an open hand and an open heart with no compulsion, no uh need to follow a rule. Instead,

it's I'm learning from my father how to be a giver. He's teaching me and so I'm

going to give something. Be careful not to get caught up in the details.

>> Yeah, agree. >> It'll drive you nuts. You can really get in what the old what the old King James called the jot and tit, the crossing of

the tees and the dotting of the eyes.

>> Got you. >> Yeah. The legalism. Yeah. Andrew is in Houston. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> I'm doing all right. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yes, sir. So, my question uh is in baby

step two. Um and when you're listing out

debts, and it has to do with an upside down car loan. >> Mhm. Um, so we we just finally got real

serious about about debt and hate and being stupid. >> Uh, started budgeting. Uh, listed out all the debts. >> Mh. >> And one of our dumber decisions was this car that we're now underwater on.

>> Mhm. >> So my question is, and this is based on God has blessed us with um the opportunity to learn to be mechanics on two beater vehicles. So we have those.

the opportunity to learn to be.

>> Yes. So, >> bless your heart. >> With some subpar mechanical assistance from myself, they they get from A to B. >> Yeah. The the YouTube instruction manual. I got you.

>> Yes, that is correct. So, this car um

one, it's it's a turdmobile. Um but it

we owe about 113 on it and it's worth

about 72.

>> Uhhuh. And so my question is when I when

I list it in the list of debts, do I list it at the 113 >> or do I prioritize it at the negative equity with the plan to sell it as soon as we break even on it?

>> H So put it in there as a $4,000 level

in the debt snowball or the $11,000 level in the debt snowball.

>> Correct.

>> I'd put it at the four. >> I would too. I'm glad you said that.

>> Okay. Yeah, I'm making this up right now. I don't know if I've ever had this question, but um >> Well, because that's the amount that you're actually going to put into it >> and we're trying to get out of it. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Even I am dumping this thing and

we are moving on. >> Now, what are you doing uh to replace it? >> I got He's already got two beers, right?

>> Mhm. I do. >> Okay. So, you're good.

>> Yes. I have two old Fords that each have about 200,000 miles on them and they get where we need to go. >> Yeah. What's your household income?

uh combined uh after taxes and everything, it's about 77.

>> And how much debt have you got? Not counting the house. >> Uh 58,000 non-mortgage.

>> Okay. All right. Good. Good for you. So

So here here's what this sounds like to me. It sounds like to me you're going to have decent cars that you paid cash for

in 36 months.

>> Yes, sir. >> That's that's where I think you're going to be. In other words, you're going to be debtree, have your emergency fund, and save up and move up in cars.

>> And I think that's going to take you about 3 years.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. You're you're a good man. You've got this figured out. I can hear it in your voice. You've got this dialed in.

If your voice if your wife is as aligned on this as you are, you guys are going to become very very wealthy over the next 20 years.

>> Okay. Yeah, we are 100% in agreement.

Um, and yeah, there was a lot of like uh

shame and fear about debt and we've sort of sat down and like no, we're we're going to get serious about it and there's there's hope now. So, >> yeah, you you've owned it and punched it in the face. I hear it.

>> I love it. >> And uh the the level of personal responsibility you're taking in the verbiage and even the voice tone that you're using is we can hear that you're going there. >> That's pretty cool. >> Yeah. Cuz you know what? what causes how

us how we can read that from being on the air for years, both of us, right?

And you know this, we can all of you can hear it too. You're listening. You heard he's this guy's serious. He's not screwing around. >> He's thinking about >> no excuses. Game on.

>> That's the difference. He's thinking about ways to get this done, but they're not ways that are excusing work or excusing the process. It's all about how can I do my part to get this done?

>> How can I grind the most efficiently?

Yeah. And here's the reason that that is

so so indicative, such an indicator, a

metric on where his future's going to be. Because personal finance is not a

math problem. It's a behavior problem.

It's 80% behavior, 20% math. About 20

you the mathematics of becoming a millionaire you learn by the sixth grade.

You do not have to have a master's degree in business from MIT to become a millionaire. There's nothing that they teach you in that that causes a millionaire. Everything you needed to know mathematically, you learned by the sixth grade. The problem is the person in my mirror. This guy can do some

stupid stuff. This guy has a PhD in

DUMB.

This guy likes donuts. I can be skinny and rich if I can control this guy.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. studio.

Jade Wallaw, number one bestselling author and Ramsay personality, is my co-host today. Sarah is in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi Sarah, how are you?

>> I'm doing well, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I have been, you know, uh, watching your show for the past uh, couple years diligently and uh, you know, during the past six months or so, I really try to hone in on doing, you know, the baby steps, then the debt snowball. Good. Um, but my my main question is today, um, should I decrease

what I'm putting away from my retirement right now to try to combat some of this debt? So, I am a single mom who, you know, is a single income household, everything. Um, and I mean, I have a car payment. I don't have a ton of debt, but I I work uh full-time and my daughter's

in school, but I ran into some debt over

uh the past six months or so. We had the government shutdown. I am a government employee. Um I work in an admin position and we had the shutdown happen last year in October.

So I wasn't paying being paid for, you know, a few months and you know everything was still coming in where you have to manage the credit card, the child care cost and stuff even though the mortgage was on hold. Um, so when the money came in and I eventually got back paid, I started, you know, just paying down um some of the credit card and uh right now I just have credit card.

on credit card. And >> you got $18,000 in debt in three months.

>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I'm saying I'm saying in total um because I had a couple things I could >> Oh, you acted like the shutdown caused it. That didn't cause it. >> Oh my gosh. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Sorry. Um, so I took out a I had to do a

bathroom remodel on my tub shower uh for when I bought my house and you know it had pieces of the metal kind of cracking off and stuff. So that was more of a safety issue. So I had

>> Stop. Stop. So you have $18,000 in credit card debt. How much do you owe on your car?

>> Uh about 30,000.

>> Any other debt? >> And what do you make?

>> Uh about 75 to 78,000 a year.

>> Okay. Your car is insanity.

>> It's half your income. >> It's killing you.

>> Yeah. So, yeah, my car is is right around uh 30,000.

>> You bought a car twice or three times what you should have. >> Do you know what it's worth if you were to sell it today?

>> Oh, at least uh I could at least get

22,000 for it.

>> What I want you to do is double check that. I want you tonight to go on Kelly Blue Book and look at private sale and see what you would get for it. Not what CarMax would give you. Not what you see what I'm saying.

See what it would be if you sold it yourself because that'd probably be my first order of business because to Dave's point, it is a huge part of your world right now and it's a huge part of your debt. >> Way too much. >> Yeah. I I really didn't want to get into this car debt.

You know, when I did, I wanted to I tried to um you know, wait almost another year or so to get a new car, but I bought a $30,000 car. You should have bought a $10,000 car. >> Mhm. Yeah.

>> Let's get back to your first question, which is, do you stop investing in order to attack this debt? The short answer is yes.

>> Um, so they take it out of my paycheck every every two weeks. Um, so 500 goes

towards Oh, wow. >> my >> Yeah. And then my mattress.

>> Okay. So 500.

>> Yeah. I would stop in a 2,000 a month.

>> Okay. because that's that's bi-weekly, >> right? I would stop investing immediately because you need your hands on that money to clean up this mess.

>> Now, let's talk about why a little bit because you're you're doing this you're doing good things. You're just doing them out of order. So, let's get you back on the right track.

>> Um, >> if you're familiar at all, have you heard the terminology of the baby steps?

>> Yes. And I had the emergency fund put away. you know, I had the the thousand put and I was um within the last year and a half, you know, I just I I got divorced two years ago and I was taking on a lot of the debt myself where I bought a new house, not a new house, but you know, a new place to live. Um I handled the fee, like the lawyer fees and everything, um paying for childare and now managing the mortgage and everything by myself.

>> So, you're feeling behind. You're feeling behind and you're feeling like I need to get caught up. You're not behind. >> You're you're doing fine.

You need that thousand dollar at your disposal temporarily. >> It's just it's it's a short-term >> sacrif,000 debt and while you clean up the new $10,000 car debt >> because we're getting rid of the 30,00 I it's it's like it's a total of $18,000 in debt because uh the bathroom remodel I owe about 10,000 on that.

>> but you so so you need to get rid of the car and pay off $18,000 and then you're debtree, right?

>> Yeah. and get a $10,000 car and then you got to pay that off. So, it's going to take you a little while to do this, but it's not going to take you 10 years. It's going to take you one or two years.

>> Yeah. >> And and you're going to be totally focused on cleaning up all the debt because if you didn't have any payments right now, but your house payment, you'd be okay. >> Yeah. >> And you could put the interest rate on the credit card is it's killing me.

>> No, the interest rate on the credit card is not killing you. What's killing you is you're out of control and you're not pounding this debt. You need to be pounding this debt. List your debts smallest to largest. Stop all investing

temporarily. Stop all lifestyle temporarily. Get rid of the $30,000 car

and knock these debts out. And that's when this is going to work. >> Let's talk about why it's in that order.

uh baby step two being paying off all of your debt besides your house and then going to baby step three to 6 months of expenses and then getting to the 15% of retirement because I think that's that's the hardest part for people is to temporary pause temporarily permanent

pause it would be the wrong answer >> right >> but it's not a permanent pause >> it's temporary but a lot of people would say oh well it's just a little bit I can get the match but there really is a lot of thought behind that and for me the biggest thing is you want to make sure that you're setting your habits up the right way because if you're investing in a situation like this lady here, she's putting money aside. Let's say she does

um finish, you know, get a little bit bit closer to paying off debt, but something pops up and she's like, "Oh, I need the money for this." She's going to look over at that retirement and go, "Well, there's some money over there. I don't have 3 to 6 months of expenses.

Maybe that's some money that I can pull from." So, it's not setting the foundation properly. Whereas, if you say, "Okay, if I have all this money, I can get out of debt even faster, which means I can set up my 3 to six months even faster." It just puts you on a light warp speed that allows you to accomplish those goals so that when you finally start investing, you never have to touch it. You can set it and forget it. You never think about it because the money that you need is there in your emergency fund.

It's there in your budget because you've paid off all your debt. >> Yeah.

100% chance. Dave, you need to be positive. I'm positive you're going to have emergencies.

It's going to happen 100% of the time.

The only question is how you gonna cover them. Are you gonna have a plan and have a rainy day fund when it rains? It's going to rain. Have an umbrella. Mhm.

>> It's going to rain. Have an umbrella.

Quit walking around. This is not about Skittles and unicorns. >> Yeah. >> This is It's going to rain.

You need an emergency fund cuz if not, you're going to put it on a stupid credit card and then you're going to go, "Why am I so broke, right? Or you're going to clean out your 401k for your emergency." And guess what they do? They charge you a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. So, you just borrowed the money at about 35% interest in taxes and penalties is what it works out. Well, that was dumb. Oh, you need

an emergency fund.

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free. Did I mention it's free? Go to ramseyolutions.com/checkup to take the coverage checkup and find out if you have the protections that you need. Donna is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Donna. How are you?

>> Hello. I'm good. >> Good. What's up? a question about indexed universal life policies. My husband and I are going to stop I know contributing um now that we know better. Uh but we have a little bit of a balance. Each of us have about 28,000 that we're going to be withdrawing. I would like to put it on the house >> or maybe a four uh or maybe into a Roth

IRA and wondering what you would suggest. >> Cool. Uh where are you out on debt? Do

you have any debt left at all?

Uh mortgage too. >> Just your mortgage. Okay. So, you're doing baby steps four, five, and six, right? >> Yes. >> So, you're putting 15% away in retirement already.

>> Yes. >> Good. I'd put it on the house then.

>> Yeah. That's >> okay. >> It's a big chunk. What?

>> That's what is that 56,000 you'll take away from this?

>> Yes. >> I love that. >> Oh, you both have 28.

>> Uh-huh. >> Oh, wow. What do you owe on the house?

>> 250. >> Uh 250. >> Oh, wow. Very good. Okay. So, down to 200. And your household income's what?

>> Uh about 320. >> Oh, cool. You're going to knock this house out in no time. Very

>> We want to get it out in about a year and a half. >> Yeah. You're on the way. Definitely throw it at the house now. I'm getting real excited. That's fun.

>> I know. Me, too. >> That's fun. How old are you guys? >> All right. 54, 57.

>> Yeah, your millionaires are getting ready to be. Well done. Very good job.

Jesse's in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Hi, Jesse. What's up?

>> Hey, how are you? Praise God.

>> Yes, sir. How can we help?

>> Well, I got a question for you. So, I'm 58. My wife's 56. Retirement's coming.

I'm probably around my age, 62. She won't quite be there yet. Um, but the question is is when we go both to retire

from the companies and I want to transfer the 401k that I have and then what she has into an IRA or roll it

over. I don't understand why can't we combine um >> IRA and 401ks retirement plans do not

have a marital >> uh component to them. They're all for individuals only.

I don't know why you would need to combine them because if you're both have access to the money because you know you're working together. >> Well, I'm just >> Yeah, but you can't put both names >> when we retire to combine them into an IRA to get more of a compounding effect.

>> Yeah. >> No, it doesn't change it. >> It doesn't change the compounding at all.

>> Two accounts of $100,000 each compound

at exactly the same rate as one account of seven of 200.

I gotcha. >> You get no compounding advantage by combining them. Zero.

>> I gotcha. >> Yeah. So, no loss there. No problem.

It's just a legality, a technicality.

And so, your 401k rolls over into an IRA in your name

and you name your wife as a beneficiary.

Hers rolls over into her name. She names you as a beneficiary. And as you pull money out of either one or both, you're

sharing the money because you're married and we're talking about this. We have a combined approach to life and that's how

people prosper the most.

>> So yeah. Yeah. You're you know, so you're right on track with all that. But um you know, but my wife has been a full-time mom since she was 40. So the retirement accounts are 90 some odd percent in my name.

I mean, we've got we've done Roth spousal Roth IAS for her every year, but they've not added up to nowhere near what I can put in my 401k here at Ramsey, right? And so, I've got >> Mhm. >> the vast majority would be in my name, but, you know, she's got legal access to that in the event of a divorce. Uh, she's got uh, you know, beneficiary access in the event of death.

She's got practical access in the event of life because I I'm obviously going to share it with her. and my wife if we need any of that money. We'll probably never touch it, but that that's neither here nor there.

how you get at it. But that's a good question. And you know, that's a common misconception mathematically. So, and the way you can run it off in your head is let's say that um you had $100,000 at

10%. That means you'd have a $10,000 growth and you got another account that has $100,000 at 10%. That's another $10,000 in growth. or you had a $200,000

account at 10%. That's $20,000 in

growth. >> And the other two were 10 each. So, it's exactly the same. And the next year when it compounds, it's exactly the same.

It's just it's just in one pile versus two piles. >> Our brain likes to see a big pile.

>> The total the total is still the same.

The aggregate is still the same. And often times people run into that. So, John's in San Francisco. Hey, John.

What's up?

>> Not much. How are you? better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, I have a pretty weird kind of situation. Um, I'm 28. My partner and I,

um, are looking possibly buying a home.

We don't know. We're currently renting.

Um, I have about a million dollars in

assets tied to some watches that I've been collecting and buying and selling since I was 18. And I don't know if I should possibly sell some of them or all of them. Try to put a down payment on a house or to buy a house.

>> Wow. >> Wow. Yeah. Are >> are any of them heirlooms or like no

legacy pieces?

>> Uh, no. I I have been really fortunate.

I've built great relationships with a bunch of watch dealers and boutique. So, I bought all of them at retail with the exception of like one or two.

>> Okay. And um I'm curious, have you tracked how they've appreciated?

>> Yes. Oh my gosh. Have I? I've some of them I've been really fortunate. I have a couple of protects. I have an Aquinaut and a Nautilus. Those have both doubled in value. I bought them for a bit under 100,000. I'm really fortunate. Combined, we make about 400,000 a year. So, >> how long ago did you buy them at 100,000 and then they doubled?

>> That was 2018, I believe. 2017. So, this is before the kind of watch boom sort of happened.

>> I didn't know a watch thing happened. I >> was going to say I didn't know there was a watch boom. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. A lot of people start buying and selling in co I've been really fortunate. I got a bit earlier and a lot of my watches have appreciated in value.

>> Well, in in general, collectibles, which watches would be,

guns would be, art would be, wine would be, in general, collectibles do not outperform the market in appreciation.

The exception to that is if you add in

some expertise. So, an art dealer will

make more on art than he would make in a mutual fund. You will make more on watches because you're completely freaking nerded out about them. Um, >> it's a it's bad.

>> Yeah, it's like OCD. Yeah, it's awesome.

I love it. And it's fun. It's amazing that you did that you have this. Uh, but overall, you know, you just ask yourself where 10 years from now, what would I rather own?

And not just mathematically, emotionally, relationally.

And so, what do I want to own with my wife 10 years from now?

>> Uh, I I personally want to own a house more than I do a collectible.

>> Now, I've got a bunch of cars. I've got a bunch of guns. And I would, if I didn't have a home, I would in a heartbeat get rid of those and move into

move that money into houses. It's hobby for me. It's not anywhere near like you've got. That's crazy, John.

That's That's me. I've never had a call from somebody had a million dollars in watches. >> I mean, I'd play urgency into it as well. If you're if it's not an urgent thing to buy a house, if you hold on to them a little while longer, you have a really nice income, you could start to cash flow more of that house and have to sell less of the watches.

So, I think that there's probably a play where you could keep some of these, the ones that mean the most to you, and still cash flow the house if the home is not urgent. Yeah, I have noticed that sometimes when people are doing something like this, and I've noticed a couple times with me, um, that, you know, I'm real enthused about it for a while and then it's like >> fizzles out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Just dump them.

>> Fizzles out. >> On to the next thing.

Hey.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

So, here's an interesting thing. You guys have heard me quote this a hundred times, some of you, but I'm going to do it again anyway. We did several years ago the largest study on millionaires ever done in North America. Detailed airtight research to where if you disagree with the conclusions of this study, you're what's known as wrong.

The data is that tight.

And it's the largest study by far uh that anybody's ever done on millionaires. And so, um, there's somewhere around 24 million millionaires at any given moment in America. And a

millionaire is someone whose net worth is greater than a million dollars. Now, that's the definition of a millionaire.

It's an accounting thing. And your net worth is determined by your assets minus your liabilities. What you own minus what you owe. So, if you have no debt, it's simply what you own. And so when you have a million dollars worth of things, money, 401ks, house, that kind

of stuff, then you are a millionaire.

>> Well, no one should have a million. Well, that's that's it's not a moral construct. It's an accounting function.

It's not enough. That's not that's not what we're debating. What we're saying is there's a simple thing. You either is or you isn't. It's an accounting thing.

And it's not a million dollars of income. And it's not a million dollars of cash. And it's not a million dollars of liquid assets. And it's not it's simply assets minus liabilities. That's

how you define it. Period. And if you don't define it that way, you're wrong.

This is the definition.

A billionaire is the same thing. When assets minus liabilities equals a billion, which by the way is a,000

million.

It's a lot.

So if you have a $100,000, you're a lot closer to being a millionaire than a millionaire is to being a billionaire.

Like a bazillion times closer. Say a thousand versus a tenth, right? 1,000th

versus a tenth. >> That that's a diff that's a big difference. So all of that to say, we've

studied these things. One of the things we figured out was we wanted to track and say, okay, what careers caused

people to be millionaires most often?

The number one career field that became a millionaire, the most that appeared most often in the 10,000 that we studied was engineer.

Number two was accountant.

Number three was teacher.

H didn't see that one coming. Number four, business person, business executive, someone in business of some kind. And uh number five was attorney.

Medical doctor didn't even make the top five. They're number six. >> Wow. >> So you always think of the doctor and the lawyer being the millionaire, right? But they are. But medical doctors are notoriously bad with money. Uh they're stereotypically bad with money. They're like artists or something. You know, it's like, you know, a you know, a music

star is notoriously bad with money.

Football player notoriously bad with money. Same thing. But they're still number six. So, but what we couldn't figure out is how teacher lands in the middle of those things because all of those are highly paid professions except teacher, >> right? >> So, how does teacher land in there? And what we figured out was after studying it a little bit more was that all of those lawyer, accountant, engineer,

teacher, business professional, they all

have a process that they have to submit to and have to

follow the process to do their career.

So when you're an engineer, if you don't follow the process, the bridge falls down. When you're an accountant, there's generally accepted accounting principles. There's not three ways to do accounting. There's one. It's not art.

You don't get to make it up. When you're an attorney and you're in court, there's a process to do litigation and you have to follow the process or you'll be held in contempt and so on. Teachers have to follow a process. They use a a detailed lesson plan. So, these are all process people. So, they simply took that process mindset and applied it to building wealth. And that's how teacher ends up in there. Fun fact is Scott's on

the phone in Spokane, Washington. Scott is a baby steps millionaire and he's a teacher that teaches the Ramsay

Foundation's high school curriculum. Is that right, Scott? >> That is 100% correct, Dave.

>> I wish I had a high school teacher that was a millionaire because he followed the principles that he was teaching me in his class. I would have sat there with wrapped attention.

It it is it is uh fascinating to watch my students when uh I walk into class because I teach the why and um when I

when I uh walk in right and you watch those those light bulb moments with those kids because I tell them on day one uh I I don't want you to have to live the life that I had to live because I learned the lessons the same way you learned them Dave that um I was in debt

and I don't want you to be in debt. I want you to uh live your life the way uh

I'm living it right now in your 30s, not in your 50s. >> Yeah. So, how old are you?

>> I'm 56. >> And how what is your net worth?

>> My net worth right now is 1.83 million.

>> Good for you. And give me a little breakdown on that. How much of that's house and retirement and so on?

>> So, about uh 700,000 is in uh my house

and we just recently paid that off within the last year. Good for you. And then Thank you. And then uh the majority

of it I would say another probably 700

is probably 7 $800,000 is in my

retirement and my um 401k. Then I have a pension attached with that as a teacher.

>> Mhm. >> And then we have in other investments um

I investment accounts things like that and then uh small small portions in savings and checking accounts.

>> Wow. Way to go Scott. So how much of this did you inherit? Uh, none.

>> Zero. Okay. >> We we have a small a very small amount that we inherited that uh helped us pay

off that uh last little bit of my student loans, but uh very insignificant amount. >> Yeah. It did not mathematically cause you to be a millionaire. >> Oh, no. No. >> You didn't inherit your money that you you you got the oldfashioned way. You earned it. Yeah. >> Yes. Yes. As you say, you know, uh when you're broke, you go to work. >> I hear you. That's it. So, uh so you've been a teacher for how long?

uh over 20 years. So um it's funny that you had mentioned engineer as well. I was a a computer engineer and an actual engineer in the military. So um uh yeah

I I built those processes and uh applied them obviously but the the the main

thing is right when when you are um teaching the the foundations um it the

kids they just kind of glom on. It's interesting to watch those light bulb moments with with the kids because they really do start to process that information and uh you just kind of

watch them, you know, day one. They're like, "Yeah, whatever." But um you you tell them in in in the curriculum, you tell you tell them on the show uh what

we're teaching you is what grandma taught you. This is common sense information. They look at you like whatever. But um as they go through, they learn and they start to process and begin to just kind of grind at it and

they're like, "Yeah, you're right. You're right. You're right." And they they they kind of just figure it out and

it becomes very hard. It's almost second nature and they they figure out really quickly that we we need to avoid debt.

This is not something >> Do they ever say, "Well, Mr. Scott avoided debt and he's a teacher and he's got 1.83 million." I mean, do they ever look at you and go, "My gosh, I got a walking social proof right in front of me." >> Well, it's interesting because I I I am very very honest and open with the kids.

And when I tell them tell them my stories because I I I open up and when I

tell them I had to work three jobs and my kids are like, "Dad, why are you never home?" >> And they I I I mean, some of the kids break down. >> Yeah. They probably relate to it.

>> Yeah. And they relate to it. And they I

have kids crying. I have kids I I had one student come into class the first day of school and go, "It's easy for Dave to say, you know, you don't need a credit card. He has millions of dollars." Four weeks into class, she was like, "I have a I have a friend that wants to get a credit card. How do I talk him out of it?" >> Wow.

>> Love it. Love it. Very cool. Well, how

long have you been teaching the curriculum? >> 14 years. Um, I taught it before it was digital. >> Wow. Wow, I got it out of the book.

>> Wow, I remember that. Oh my gosh, that's

amazing. Very cool. Well, thank you for teaching it and congratulations on being a baby steps millionaire and another hero in the American story right here.

Absolutely incredible. If you didn't know, we have a high school curriculum called Foundations in Personal Finance that's been taught now in 48% of America's high schools. 6 million kids have graduated from it. So, uh, if you can help us get it into your local school, that'd be awesome. And uh some sometimes you need to knock a noggin on the school board, but you know, hey, whatever it takes, baby. That's what we're going to do.

When I talk to people on the Ramsay show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing. Not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal. But it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar budget app. Every Dollars you

tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up

extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you call the show and it's right in your pocket.

So don't keep living normal. Go download the Every Dollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Our scripture today, John 1:14. And the word became flesh and dwelt among us.

And we've seen his glory. Glory as of

the only son from the father, full of grace and truth. Bill Murray said, "People are like music. Some speak the truth and others are just noise."

>> Oh, Mia is in Seattle. Hi, Mia. How are you? >> I'm great. How are you guys? And thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? Um, my question basically in a nutshell is two weeks ago for my 62nd birthday, I paid my mortgage

off 16 years early.

>> Good for you.

>> Well, all my friends, I mean, all my friends are telling me I made the biggest mistake of my life. And now I'm really terrified that they're correct given the current market situations and things. So, I my question was to try to get some guidance from you based on my current situation. >> You need new friends.

Well, let me give you just a quick contents. I'm 62. I'm single. I'm in the

midst of an 8-year canc battle, and my doctor said I won't be able to return to work for the foreseeable future.

>> So, based on that, you know, my friends

are telling me I took my liquid assets

that I had to pay it off 16 years early.

And that was a big mistake because my interest rate was 3.5% and I could have been making more. all the things you hear. But now I'm afraid maybe they were right. >> Do you still have a nest egg?

>> So what I basically um I have is I'm

currently my income I have a disability

benefit from my former employer that um separated me last June for disability of

7,70 a month. And that will end by three

years um the way the policy set up when I turn 65. but it could end previous. I

get a $3,000 monthly SSDI um payment

after the taxes and the Medicare are deducted. >> And then I've got um my assets, my I

have a $80,000 emergency fund in cash

and I have $23,000 in cash for insurance

premiums that are going to be changed in November. And then my investments, I've

got um 1,430,000 in a traditional IRA. You're okay.

>> Your friends are morons.

>> And I'll go I'll go a bit further.

They're they're talking about a stratosphere that they've not yet entered.

So how can they know? You're the only stop for a minute. You're the only one who's actually done it. So don't you think you have a better frame of reference than they do? They've only had debt.

Right. So, I'm debtree. Um, I've got two. >> You're a debtree multi-millionaire.

You're okay.

>> Calm down. >> I Okay. I'm just, you know, with the current situation. >> Current situation. What >> are you? If you're not in Iran and being bombed, I think you're okay.

>> You are in Seattle. But >> because I can't I can't go back to work like I'm going to be. You have a $10,000 a month income and a million dollars.

That's your current situation.

>> Okay. Um, >> you're okay.

>> Okay. Well, I was worried that I'm really not okay. >> What do you think is going to happen? >> What What How would you not be okay?

What current situation are you referring to? >> Well, so for example, my my medical um

is going to change in November because my secondary is co my premiums are going to go up really high. a million dollars.

>> But the million dollars really doesn't, they tell me, go very far. >> Yes, it does. >> It goes a long way cuz it's making a h

100red,000. Is it invested in good mutual funds? >> Well, yeah. So, the traditional IRA is that and then I've got 218 thou 218,000

in a Roth. I've got 17.

>> Is all of that invested in good mutual funds? >> Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. So, it's all going to make around $100,000 a year that you're not even touching, >> right? So, I basically structured, you know, how you the the four buckets that you advise, they're in they're in the traditional and the Roth because I have to protect against Irma. So, any capital

gains I make stays in the retirement.

And then and then I've got 440,000 in

municipal bonds and 342 in some core

equities that's managed. So, um I but

I'm trying not to touch any of that.

>> You want you're not touching any of that. You have a $10,000 a month income without touching it. >> And you're going to have that for the for sure for the foreseeable next three years. Well, the the long-term disability benefit, the way my employer wrote the policy, it could go away before three years, but the max I have left on it is three years. >> Yeah. And depending on whether you remain disabled or not. Yeah. >> Right.

>> Even if even if it went away, you'd still be okay.

>> Okay. >> You did not make a mistake.

>> The only mistake you made was in choosing your friends.

>> Okay. >> Or in listening to them. I have some friends that I actually like that are also not smart, but that's okay.

>> Okay. All over me.

>> I I I just looked up how long it would take to wire the money and have it clear so that I got my letter saying the write off was closed on my birthday cuz for my

present for myself. I wanted to free scream. So, I told my I told my friends and then they just I was in tears because they were like, "That's ridiculous." And >> I just think that's jealousy.

>> I do. Well, or idiocy or both.

>> Yeah. Who in their right mind when somebody has done something incredible like that would not celebrate them even if it's not your personal choice that you wouldn't celebrate what somebody else views as a personal accomplishment.

And it's zero detriment to them.

>> Okay. So, but I still have like a 600 a month HOA. So, I have, you know, a lot of expenses. I guess >> Mia, your worries and your math don't add up.

>> Okay. Okay. your worries are a 10 and your math is a one. >> Or let's let's let's be as logical as

humanly possible right now. Who do you think knows more about this situation,

Dave Ramsey or your three little buddies at home? >> No, I I get it. I >> Okay, >> there you go. That's it. >> Honey, you need to breathe. You need to breathe. You're okay. You are in great shape. You have done a wonderful job. I don't know what the house is worth. If it's worth a million, you're in Seattle, it probably is. And you got a million dollars. You're you're a multi-millionaire at 62.

>> I want you to concentrate on fighting cancer. >> Not arguing about whether you should have paid off your house or not. I want you to go beat it. Go beat Go beat the big C. Yes. >> And and live your life, kiddo. Wow.

Matthews in Phoenix. Hey, Matthew. How are you?

>> Good. How you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, my question for you is, um, I'm

recently going out on my own business-wise. I'm in home remodels. Um,

I've been doing it for a long time. I'm just trying to do it on my own now.

>> My question is, I've been cash flowing everything. Our house is bought and paid for. Our vehicle, my work truck, everything's bought and paid for, >> absolutely no debt, >> no credit card. My question is, would it

be a bad decision to take out a small business loan, maybe 2500 to five grand

just to help um backfund this? You know,

I'm doing it. I've been >> back. What does backfund mean?

>> I'm trying to think of the right word. Just, you know, when tools come up that need bought, stuff like that.

>> You've cash flowed everything.

>> Just continue to cash flow. >> Don't stop now. Don't stop now. Don't stop now. Don't Don't fall into the debt trap because when you fall into the debt trap, you have to take jobs from customers that are unreasonable to pay the debt payments.

>> And then you get then you get an unreasonable no fun business to operate because you have to put up with the butts. You don't want to have to deal with the butts. You want to deal with the good people. And you have you don't have to you could send the butts to your competitor if you don't have debt payments. Say, "I think you need to I've got here's my competitor's business card. You need to go talk to him." >> That's so good. and and let them let them worry someone else's ears off.

Instead, you go work with the good people, make some good money and do a good job and help those people and make you some money and you're in a great line of work. Please continue to organically fund it with cash flow, no

debt. Please, Matthew, please do that.

Just swing that hammer, turn that wrench, baby. You got a great thing going and you're in a you're sitting on a gold mine if you don't screw it up by going into debt. >> Absolutely. >> I know lots of remodel guys and repair guys that are running businesses that are half million dollars a year right now. And that's the profit. Hello. They

you can really do good at this. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network [music] and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruze, number one [music] best-selling author, Ramsey personality, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here as we talk to you about your life and your money. The phone number is free at 888-825-5225

and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. >> [gasps] >> John is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hey John, how are you?

Doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve, sir. What's up?

Uh I guess we'll get to a little backstory, I guess, first off. I'm 26

and my girl uh fiance, I should say, is 31. Um we don't live together. So, I have a home in a uh right across the state line. She lives with her parents.

Um I have no kids. She has three with three

different fathers.

And me and her are just trying to get on board with the Dave Ramsey plan and I guess you could say struggling with that.

In what way, John? What does that What does that mean?

Well, just uh I presented to her I was

following that route when I met her right at 2 years ago and we we've tried

to do that uh, on baby step two for the both of us.

And, um, I guess you could say just a few problems, you know, not living together, different households, and overall just ain't on

board with the plan completely, I guess you could say. She's not?

Yes. Okay.

So, what you're saying is is that she's okay with her money problems and you're not.

Right. Yeah.

I ain't going to say it's, you know, completely based on, you know, hot and cold, I guess you could say, but yeah, that's pretty much overall that.

Cuz what are the things specific, John, that you're like, "Okay, I want to I want to do this. I want to get out of debt and I want to live debt free." And she's what, in debt, doesn't care to get out, and is okay with it? Like, is that one of the main rubs? You mentioned baby step two, which is part of the plan of getting out of debt.

Or is it saving? Is it investing? Is it giving? Is it all of it?

Well, to be honest with you, it's more so, hey, you know, we talk, we want to

go down this road, we want to we want to be here and do this, and for say, a good

example, we we talk about this, and then

a couple months down the road, which was a few months back, she goes and purchases a new car.

You know, that, and I would say we didn't need, you know.

Yeah. Uh, just overall not, uh,

following, I guess you could say.

Okay. Well, here's the thing. If someone doesn't follow the Ramsey plan and you do, that's the, you know, we're not we're not the Bible. We, you know, we just teach biblical concepts, but, um, but but, you know, you don't judge somebody based on that alone. But what this does indicate something deeper that is disturbing. So, here's the numbers.

The number one cause

of fights and divorce in marriage is

money and money problems.

And it's not really the money, it's what the money represents.

Because it represents your fears, your dreams, what you believe about life, who you believe is in charge, whether you're in charge or somebody else is in charge of your own life, do you control your own destiny, and the way you handle money indicates all of those things, and that spills over then into your It is your value system, and it spills over into your relationship. And so, if we say the number one cause of

Uh if you said the number one cause of uh death in your neighborhood was snake bite, and you saw snakes, well, you're

worried, if you're smart, you know? And so, the number one cause of marriage issues is this, and you've got this issue on the number one thing, and uh she's tried this at some level three times at least before.

Right. So, I'm that that's worrisome. Um

and and so, i- if I'm coaching the two of you and you're sitting in front of me, I'm going to say the way you can tell if your potential marriage is going to work is to the extent you guys can get on the same page and stick to the page, whatever page it is, whether it's got Ramsey written on it, or whether it's got something else written on it. >> and the big and the big subjects of life that we see eye to eye on, in-laws, faith, sex, money. I mean, it's the big stuff, and when we can see eye to eye on the value system, you're just going to have a I don't want to say easier marriage, it's just it it's going to probably cause less tension because you're walking the same direction together instead of fighting against each other always.

So. >> In-laws is one of the four things that kills a marriage. >> Yeah. It's one of the top four.

And so, you know, her mother won't shut up.

And and she lives with them, by the way.

Uh so, I don't I'm not saying that's in the equation. I don't I have no idea if it is here. But, and the same thing with religion. If one of you says, "I hate God." and the other one says, "I believe in God and I do everything he says." Well, that's going to be a problem.

You know? I You can argue about who's right or wrong, but the fact that you're not on the same page is going to be a problem.

So, these are the types of things that the data tells us mess up marriages. And if I know that going in, I don't want to take all the data and remove all romance and love from the equation, but love's not going to overcome those things for 10 years.

>> Well, and there's also, John, and this is not to be judgmental on her by any means. I don't know her story. I We You gave us no context except that she's had three kids with three different people. You're You're You're the fourth one that you know you're starting this life with.

And so, any level of pattern that you see in your life, and hopefully for her

to look back and just say, "Hey, what are patterns in my life um that maybe are not the best things, not not the best choices." And so, and what that can indicate, those character qualities in general, feed into other areas of our life. So, the fact that she says one thing and then goes and It's not like she ordered something on Amazon. She went and bought a new car. You know what I mean?

Like, it was a big purchase. That's huge. It's very different than what was discovered. >> and defiant.

>> So, there Well, there's just Well, it's just a It's a It's a lack of >> middle finger. >> No, no. That's not strong. Yeah.

It's a lack of follow through.

>> that. I'm going to go buy a new car.

That's what that is. >> you said, right? And I don't know why she got the new car. I don't know. There's probably probably more details than But, the But, that That's what I'm saying though is the character quality you have to Yeah. be aware of things that have caused decisions in your life.

And if those patterns can change, then the spouse you're going to marry is going to probably be a healthier person, too, right? So, it's just >> tell John to do? It's a overall It's an overall scope. I would continue to press and have the conversation. I would >> And I would get premarital counseling. >> Yeah, I would continue to push and >> with a coach. and to know the why behind a lot of these decisions for her. Yeah.

What causes her to be okay, you know, with the subject? You could say debt as the subject. Like, what what is in that with her and actually get to the bottom of it cuz there could be a level of digging that you actually find and and you know her more. That's the thing with money.

You you pull a string and it goes all the way down to people's heart and soul and that's in there for her. So, I would if I loved her, right?

does this look like a life that you want to sign up for, you know? Yeah, but if my decision patterns [music] cause me to have a new car in the driveway, I'm 31 and three kids and I live with my parents, I know.

>> [music] >> these aren't patterns. Not great ones.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Problem. Problem.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

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Start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Shane's in Philadelphia. Hi Shane, how are you?

Good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, uh I've changed positions in the company that I've been working for for the last couple of years and I'm making a significant amount of money over what I

was making initially and it's kind of just piling up in the bank. I haven't invested any of it aside from just a company 401k, which comes out automatically. And I'm pretty illiterate when it comes to these things. So, I've been back and forth reading different things online about what I should be doing with my money.

Um never really done anything with it thus far because I haven't had any professional advice, just what I've read online. So, I'm hoping that you can maybe guide me in a direction of where I should be putting my money to work for me as opposed to earning less than 1% interest in the bank. Good for you. Good for you.

Well, the good news is it's not rocket science. It's not that hard.

Um this is not like learning a foreign language. It's much easier, okay? And so, um it is a bit of a foreign language, but you just have to learn the vernacular and then you'll know what to do. What do you do for a living?

So, I'm in sales. Good. What do you make? Uh by myself or my wife as well?

>> Household Your household income. Why is this money piling up? Um probably just north of 200k gross between my wife

and I. Good for you. Well done, sir. How much money do you have saved? Shane, you said it's just sitting in the bank and piling up. Yeah, so right now I have about 50,000

in the bank. Um I've only been in sales for the last 6 months and I probably had

10,000 when I started. So, I probably have saved 40 grand last >> Yeah, it's amazing. Good for you. Okay.

>> Well, as far as investing goes, there's two principles that if you follow these two principles, you'll find your way through and do just fine. Okay? Actually, there's three, but um I'll give you two. I'll give you all three of them. Principle number one, don't ever put money in something you don't understand.

Okay. >> You have not violated that. Congratulations, you've done very well.

I met with an NFL player one time and I sat down with him and his wife and he said, "Dave, you're going to kill me." And I'm like, "What'd you do? Did you blow all your money?" And he said, "No, I got $10 million." I'm like, "What is it? What Why am I going to kill you? You got $10 million." He said, "It's all in CDs.

It's horrible." And I went, "That's not horrible. That's so much smarter than all the other people you play football with cuz they've all blown theirs or put it in their brother-in-law's pizza company that went broke, you know. So, you know, you're very smart. Don't put money in stuff until you understand it.

You understand it before you put money.

Principle number one. Principle number two, plan to go slow.

The fastest way to get rich quick is don't get rich quick. >> Right. The tortoise wins the race over the hare

every time I read the book.

Okay. >> And I've read it a bunch. Over and over, he always wins. In investing, you always

win if you're slow and steady wins the race. That's the Aesop's fable, okay?

And then the third thing is don't get

financial people in your life of any kind. Real estate, insurance, investing, >> Tax. >> uh tax, whatever. This sound like Charlie Charlie Brown's teacher. Wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah. I have no idea what you're saying. You might as well speak in German to me.

Okay? And if they can't speak to you in

such a way that they can teach you, they

don't have the heart of a teacher, then they're just a salesman. They're not a financial person.

And financial people are the world's worst because a lot of us are nerds and

we like being impressive with our nerd knowledge more than we are concerned that you learn.

Sure. And that goes back to the first one. Don't put money in stuff you don't understand. So, if you sit down with a financial advisor and you're and your wife and your wife says, "I got a bad feeling about him or her." Don't go with them. Or if you sit down with them and you leave more confused than when you went in, don't go with them.

Okay. They might be okay, but they're not okay for you.

Now, now that we've established that, we can start talking about some of the cool stuff you could do for investing.

Now, we teach a process for building wealth that we've taught for 30 years plus called the baby steps. You probably heard of that, right?

I do. I have. I actually have your Total

Money Makeover book. >> Okay. So, you know then that we're going to have you have an emergency fund and have all your debts paid off except your home before we start investing. Do you have any debt other than your home?

Uh yes, um just my car or my truck and my wife's car. >> And how much is all that?

Um total probably 70,000. Okay, we're

going to pay all that off before we do any investing then.

Okay. That's what we call baby step two.

If you remember the book. And then once that's done, I want you to set aside three to six months of expenses in for an emergency fund. Being out of debt and having the rainy day fund is foundational to keep your investments safe.

Your investments otherwise will turn you'll pull money I'll stop your 401k temporarily.

And knock those car debts out. Take all that 40k and throw it at the smallest car debt. Let's get it all cleaned up.

So, if you got no payments but a house payment and you got I don't know, in your case 30,000 bucks sitting there in a money market account only to be touched for emergencies. It's not a I want to go on a trip fund. >> was one change I was going to say. Open up a high yield savings account.

Fairwinds Credit Union's amazing. Um but they have a great smart bundle. So, put it not in a traditional savings account, but in a high yield savings account cuz it goes from negative I mean basically like not even 1% to at least you're getting 3 to 4% sitting there for your emergency fund. >> emergency >> fund, right.

And then, with no payments, now you start really stacking money, you start putting 15% away in your 401k and Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks.

talk to one of the SmartVestor Pros at ramsaysolutions.com and they can help you. They've the will have the heart of a teacher. They don't get the Ramsey name put on them on our website unless they have the heart of a teacher.

We won't We won't put our name beside somebody that And if we find out someone I'm doing the Charlie Brown's teacher thing, we fire them and get them out of the system cuz we are hardcore about this. So, if you do all of that, you're going to have so much stinking money cuz I got to tell you, one of the highest paid professions in the United States today is a good salesman.

Yeah, it's it's it was pretty night and day. I It's about three times what I was making with the same current company prior to this position and it's just had a lot of nights where I didn't really know what we were going to do for certain things. Read through your book, paid off some debts, credit cards, medical bills. >> Good. Well, you're on your way.

And now we're just at a point where I have too much money.

I don't know what to do with it based off of you know, my own my own ignorance with Yeah. with uh with finances.

>> Well, with investing with investing, you start investing in good mutual funds and they're really easy to understand. It's 90 to 200 stocks. You look at the track record of the fund that was mutually

funded by you, me, and a bunch of other people together. And you go, "Okay, that that group of that pile of money has been growing at an average rate of 11%

or 10% or 22% or whatever it is." And

you look at, "Oh, it's done that for 32 years." Oh, okay, I feel pretty good about that. That's like buying a house in a good neighborhood. >> Yeah, and shame when you get to that that 15%, honestly, the investment advice as you if you dig into more of what we talk about, it's not going to be a lot of flashy stuff. I mean, honestly, the 15% to retirement, 401ks, Roth IRAs,

you know, the standard. And then anything beyond that is just mutual funds, I mean, index funds, like it's it's nothing there's no day trading, no crypto, like what you know, there's nothing big and flashy, real estate, Airbnb, you know, Airbnb investing, like there's you'll find none of that because again, it's it's quote-unquote not exciting investing advice, but the amount of baby steps the millionaires that are at it have have done this and have built wealth slowly over time because it is the most stable way to build wealth versus all the flashiness.

Um so again, it's not it's not super exciting, but it is it is consistent and

it works. >> it actually works. >> It works, yep.

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>> David is in Madison, Wisconsin. Hi David, how are you?

Hi David and Rachel, how are you guys?

Better than we deserve, sir. What's up?

Cool. Thank you for taking my call. My wife and I are we've been working the baby steps for about the last 8 months,

and we are on baby step six.

Uh we are at the point where we have to

kind of uh navigate uh bad decision we made when we bought our house 2 years ago. We bought a house, and our mortgage is

50% of our take-home pay, and we're just trying to figure out um if it's uh if

it's the right move to sell it uh or if we kind of stick it out and see if we can come up with a better solution. When you say take-home pay, what do you mean is coming out of your check?

So, we bring home $12,000 a month after

taxes. Mhm. Uh and our mortgage is

6,065.

But after taxes, 401k, health insurance, what else is coming in? What's coming out of the check other than taxes?

Uh yeah, 401k, uh health insurance, and taxes. Okay. Taxes is all we're talking about when we say take-home pay. So, how much is going in your 401k a month?

Uh we I do 15% of

uh 100,000 and then my wife's salary is 75,000.

And we do uh 5% of her pay goes into her 401k. Okay,

that's close to $2,000 a month.

All right. And uh and how much is the health insurance?

Uh the health insurance is around uh 200

and $50 uh every 2 weeks. So, 500.

>> uh yeah, we have a we're self-employed.

Um so, our company pays 75% of the health insurance. Okay. All right.

>> [sighs] >> All right. Um well, I mean so, when we mean take home pay, we mean $2,500 more.

So, we mean 14,000 and some change.

Okay? Yes. your take home pay. So, you're that would put you at about 40% uh not 50. But still, it's very tough.

And so, the principle is when your house payment is too big a percentage of your take home pay, you become mathematically what we call house poor. You don't have any wiggle room to do anything else. How much debt have you paid off and how long did it take you in this recent debt run you did?

Uh yeah, we paid off around 120,000

um in the last 8 months. While while fighting this big mortgage.

Yes, sir. Dang, did y'all sell anything?

Uh yeah, one of Dave's probably uh I had

a Shelby GT500.

Uh that I had a while and on, but I did have a decent amount of equity in that car. So, that helped pay off some other debt. Okay. Yeah, it's just a lot. How much of the 120 was that?

Uh that I we sold for 94,000.

>> Yeah, I was thinking. Um, but I did all, uh, 65,000

on it. >> So, 94 of the 120 was one stroke.

Okay. Yep. Cuz you threw the rest of it at another debt. Yeah, so your equity's up. >> I will 94, uh, 94 is what I sold the car

for. I'm sorry. I >> I know. I know, but you threw the other You paid off the car and you took the other 34 and put it on debt, right?

Yeah, correct. >> So, of the two of the 120, 94 was with it just simply moving the Mustang. Yeah.

Wow. Good. That That That made you cry a little, but it was also a brilliant move. Uh, okay.

Uh, other than that then, so that leaves you with 30,000 you reduced during that same 8 months while having this big mortgage. What else did you sell?

Uh, that was the only thing we sold. Um,

we we did have savings. I, like I said, we are very new to this. >> How much was in savings?

Uh, we had a 175,000 in savings and now >> pulled that out and paid off the rest of this. Correct. >> So, you did not cash flow any of this debt reduction then.

Uh, no. Okay. So, we're back to the mortgage being a problem. >> what's left in savings?

Uh, between the, emergency fund and just a high yield savings, around 125,000.

>> What's your balance on your mortgage?

700,000. What's your interest rate?

7%.

You might consider dropping another 100 on that and refinancing it.

You can get a lot You probably get a 5 and 1/2 this week.

On a 15-year fixed. >> one of our thoughts. Get a better interest rate and recast the mortgage

because you're throwing 100 or 150 at the thing, getting it down to 550. I think we got a workable deal. Do you like the house?

Uh, that that's another part of wife and

I are were talking about. We were recently were both saved last year and it's a nice house, but it's we really like to simplify our life and we want to be able to kind of give more right now.

So, we're kind of Well, I mean, if you want to sell it anyway, that's okay. I was fighting to keep it for a minute helping helping you but thinking you wanted to keep it. But, if you want to sell it anyway, it makes the whole equation, right? But, as far as do you have to sell it because of

this uh percentage of your real take

home pay not counting 401k and health insurance, probably not.

Uh but, if you want to sell it and downsize to get a simplified life, use the equity from the house, get a lower interest rate, use the 100 100 and some change, maybe 150 out of savings, dump it on there. I mean, you you're going to have a lot more wiggle room if you do that, obviously.

Yeah. So, we have had the house listed

uh for the last month and we've had kind of 10 or 12 showings and uh it's looking like after talking with our realtor, we probably since the house is so new, it hasn't quite built up equity we before we bought this, before we knew anything about you and didn't put any money down, we'll probably have to pay somewhere around 50,000 to get out of it. That's the part we're struggling with. Is that smart or do we stick it out and wait for equity to build or do we just pay the stupid tax?

You don't have to sell it to get ahead.

You're going to prosper because you've been willing to make sacrificial moves. You're being very intentional about everything. You know your numbers. I think you're going to be okay if you keep it. I would consider refinancing it and putting 100 or 150 down on the balance and putting it at a 5 and 1/2 on a 15 year. Uh I would consider doing that. Really really seriously. Get get in touch with Churchill Mortgage and see if they can help you with that. >> How old are you guys?

I am 30 and my wife is 28. Okay.

>> Yeah. I probably would do that and then sit there for 2 years and then if I'm still feeling a pinch and I want to still feeling this push to simplify and then sell it and you'll probably make some money. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

And I was going to say I mean if you guys your voice is deep David I was like I don't know he could be 55 he could be 25 I don't know how old this guy is.

Because if you were closer to even retirement age right and you didn't have a lot saved or something like that right and there may be a big financial move you guys do to stockpile some money if you were close to that but you guys but you're fine you're 30 so yeah that's

that would be another element of why I could see someone wanting to simplify to get more cash flow to start investing more but you guys are great at 30.

>> doing a good the good news about every single thing we asked you you knew the answer. You're you're on it. You're you're dialed in and that that that is a that's that's half the battle.

Emily's in Montreal. Hi Emily how are you? Hi Dave good thanks how are you? Better than I deserve what's up?

So I just exited baby step two on

Thursday of last week and yesterday my car was stolen that was my only debt and

I'm expecting about $45,000 to $50,000

payout from insurance because it was stolen and I'm at a crossroads of what to do with that either do I get the exact same car that was stolen which I loved so much do I take this opportunity to maybe downsize my car and use the money for something else like starting a business or anything else or do I potentially just stay in my current job and get something more efficient.

>> I make $60,000 a year. You don't need a $45,000 car if you make 60,000 even if it's paid for. >> I know I know I don't it's I'm driving like 1,000 km a week to to to work You don't want to destroy a $1,000 car.

I mean, a a $45,000 car driving that much if you're that broke. No. So, not Yes, I would move down in car. We don't tell people to buy more than half their annual income in cars.

And so, that means you take 30 of the 45 at a max and buy a buy a 2-year-old version of what you just had stolen.

Wow, what a story.

Just got out of debt and they stole my car. They stole my stole my car. Yeah, use the rest as an emergency fund, Emily, then you're on the baby step four. There you go.

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>> [music] >> Michael is in Billings, Montana. Hey Michael, what's up?

Hey Dave, how are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Hi, so I'm 26 and I'm looking to get

engaged here soon.

Um but my girlfriend and I, we have very different net worths and I was curious what or how you would look at setting up a pre-nup. What does very different net worth mean?

Okay. I So, I was very blessed. My grandparents did very well. I have about five I have

a $550,000 paid for house, uh about 50,000 in a truck.

I also have about 135 between my 401k

and my various accounts. I also have 350k in leftover in a college fund.

Um she is currently in PA school

and she will be coming out of school

um with about 120 to 150,000 in debt.

What do you What do you make?

I make about 100 Well, I'm in sales, so 120 to 150 a year. Okay.

Um And she will be making about >> were in your shoes, I would get so comfortable with this lady

in order to marry her that I don't need a pre-nup. You don't have enough net worth to fool with it.

Okay.

If you can't get $600,000 worth of comfortable with somebody, you don't need to marry them.

Okay. >> If you had 60 million from your grandparents, we'll talk about a pre-nup.

Okay. >> at 600k, no.

I wouldn't. Would you, Rachel?

No, I mean, the only thing I could think of, if I'm in her shoes and the and the

and and the script was flipped and I'm marrying a guy he's coming out and I had built a a life for me and I had bought my own home and I had done some big things. I could see like the home for instance, maybe.

If something were to ever happen, um yeah, that because the cuz the thing with the thing that's hard with pre-nups is like the the the laws in every state with divorce are different, okay? And so there's going to be something that is going to happen if that happens. So, are you proactive about that on the front end?

Up to you. People nowadays are getting more and more comfortable with it cuz people are getting married later with some established financial life versus two 21-year-olds who have nothing and they're, you know, getting married. Um so, more and more we get this call and I think my my I had a pretty black and white take on it for years of like, nope, nope, nope, nope. And now there's just a part of me that I'm like maybe maybe one part of this that you're like, yeah, if something were to happen, um I have built a life, right?

I mean, I know people that have their own businesses and that kind of thing. I don't know. If you Again, if you've got a substantial net worth, I I and I and I'm not Your grandparents blessed you. There's no question about that.

And um you know, it's it's okay it's okay if you get a divorce. >> a million. He has a $550,000 home, 135,

350 in a car like everything together.

It's It's probably more like a million.

>> Okay. So. If you want to do it, it's okay. I just want you to be really, really sure that The problem is everybody throws this subject against the wall as if it solves something. And I don't want you to think it solves anything. All it solves for is

if you divorce. It doesn't mean that you've actually sat down and got to know each other.

It doesn't mean that you sat down and agreed, "Okay, here's how we're going to spend the parent my grandparents' money

that they gave me is going to pay off your student loans when we come home from the honeymoon." You got to solve for that.

Emotionally. And that's a And that's a blessing. >> the way, I would do that. I'm 100% 100% You got 350,000 in Yes. in a in a college account, you can use it for your spouse and I'd pay off that debt in about 20 seconds.

And um you know, that kind of stuff. And you got to you got to go to emotionally, is this relation cuz the only chance you

have in a culture that hates marriage for your marriage to last is you got to be willing to die for them.

You got to be willing to take a bullet for them. Mhm. You got to be it's all in. Ride or die as Delony says.

This is we're in. And and so the problem

with a pre-nup is it's kind of got one foot in a boat, one on the dock, you know, and it's like you know, and I want you to go all in and then if you've emotionally, relationally with some good marriage coaching, counseling solve for all the the all in part um

and you're ready to write a check and pay off your student loans when you get back from the honeymoon and then and if on top of that you want to do a pre-nup, okay. That yeah, I'm not going to yell at you for that for for a million dollars, but but I I really want you to um cuz think that's right.

>> Yeah, because I think what and I and again I'm like saying this out loud as I'm like processing it because I think to the the downside of people that do pre-nups, so that's probably a generalization, but is that you're starting out emotionally saying financially this is mine Mhm.

and this is you over here and and and

that can tend to then go into the marriage where that's financially where we say no, you're all in. So if you had a if you did do a pre-nup and and you're like if the worst of the worst of the worst happens and and the you know, we we do the divorce, you know, court or whatever and this is how assets are divided, but inside the marriage from that point on, we are commingling finances. Mine is what what's mine is yours. Yes, and net worth. That everything then is together.

Yeah. Um and I don't know how that plays I don't know, but so that's my caution with it, too. I don't like that I I don't like that emotional hurdle.

But yet, again, I mean, I'm like I I can't help myself, but when we sit on this side of the desk, we have so many calls of of people who have walked through divorce and all, you know what I mean? And someone that brings in something or had a business. I mean, I've had you know, people in my own life and that's happened to and you're just like, man.

What I always want to do is force people to to set that aside and act like it's not there >> Yeah. and get okay with that. Yes.

>> And and that level of commitment >> Yep. and then, if you want to do it, fine. But what it does, it keeps people from going deep. Keeps them from going in all the way to the ground to ground floor and you've got to do that for your marriage to have a chance in a in a in a culture where marriage is is a we're at war against marriage.

I mean, it's like Well, it's just it's just not a priority for some people. You know what I mean? Exactly. Well, but you know, the other one that's interesting, Rachel, on on that side of the thing, of course, when I started a long time ago, I just said, "Never do a pre-nup." >> Yeah.

>> [laughter] >> On the basis of what we've just been saying. Yes. But then I ran into weirdness where somebody's got two or three million dollars and the other one's broke and it's not the person, usually. It's like I find out that there's a weird brother-in-law or cousin in the mix, you know?

Because what the brother-in-law >> you're like, I can't touch it, it's not mine. Mhm. >> so her her her crazy brother, you know, starts coming at the new husband. And it's like, "I want this. I want to do this." >> handled. It's already handled. You can't get to it." So, uh you got cuz you it's there's crazy in every family and if you think there's not, it's you, you know. So, and so

that's what you're looking for and then

Deloney and I were having this discussion. He's doing all this marriage research right now and he had a guy come to him and we had this great discussion the other day on we're traveling together and um that a guy made the point that a pre-nup is like a will.

Because if you don't do a will, the state has a set of laws on how your assets will be divided. Yeah, that's right. >> don't do a pre-nup, the state has a set of laws in the divorce of how you're going to be divided. And they said, "But we tell everybody to do a will to pre-plan so the state is not in charge." And so if you want to be anti-government, Dave Dave is about as anti-government as anybody you'll ever meet.

Classic hillbilly, right? Like, you know, don't like them revenuers. And so,

you know, that kind of stuff. And so I if you want to be real anti-government, Dave, you would tell everybody buy a pre-nup to so the government's not deciding. >> for yeah, you're the one deciding. And that's an interesting philosophical discussion. It didn't sway me, but it's it's worth talking about. It didn't sway me.

That's that was part of my answer too with the That's a good That's a good point. But that's my thing too. And And again, the And honestly, this the the the reality we live in today, people are getting married later and they're coming in established with something and

>> But that's even that adds to the danger because you've got this independence

and in order to have a quality relationship, that has to go away. Yeah.

Yeah. >> You have to you have to become interdependent to have a quality relationship.

Yes. >> Submit yourselves one to another, Ephesians says, right? There's a submission to each other, not a I'm over here and I'm established, you know? And that that's that's a spirit that's got to be broken.

And again, I don't know the laws of this. We're going in circles >> [laughter] >> No, I like it. >> But but I but like could could the pre-nup be right if you started a a business, right? And it and [music] it's killing it and you're the owner of it but you get married could the pre-nup say in the middle of divorce you don't get to touch the business, it's mine.

But in the marriage we >> [music] >> what I bring home it's everyone. So that makes sense like >> do that. You could do that. >> line I don't know.

How to say unified in the marriage but also [music] But I would also add that from today forward the marriage grows partially because of the marriage. >> Oh the value of the okay. >> grows partially because of the value of marriage added to the business.

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruze is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey. Brandon is in Chicago. Hi Brandon, how are you?

Hi Dave. Hi Rachel. What's up? I'm doing pretty good. Um my fiance and I are getting married in about 4 weeks time now. Congratulations. Congratulations.

Thank you. We are looking to buy a house. Um we I've done your financial peace twice. She's done it once.

We've done all the baby steps. We're uh investing, got emergency funds. Um

got a decent stack of cash packed uh piled up and um we just don't want to make the wrong decision on buying a house and everything seems out of reach.

What's your What's your combined income going to be?

Uh we'll be about 120.

Um Mhm. I don't want to base it off that because we would like to start having children soon sooner rather than later.

Um so I'd like to base it off mine, which is currently 70. Mhm. Um so yeah.

And how much cash do you have saved?

About 70 grand. Good for you. Good for you. Okay, my screen says you're in Chicago. Chicago proper?

Uh Northwest Indiana.

Okay, but the Chicago greater metro area. Yes. Okay.

Probably not going to buy a house on 70,000 in the greater metro area of Chicago. And honestly, not always cuz the house prices, but the property tax.

People that I we know moved from Chicago, the it's not even the price of the home, it's keeping up The [laughter] taxes.

the taxes itself Yeah. are what's impossible. Now, if you're in Indiana and you get across the line out of Illinois, is that where you are?

Yes, I'm I'm in Northwest Indiana.

>> help That helps with the tax issue then.

But yeah. >> Yeah. But but still you're you know, you're in a major metro market that's a very expensive city.

It's one of the largest cities in the world.

And so uh that that's expensive real estate. You're probably also not going to buy in San Francisco, San Diego, or

uh Manhattan on 70 grand a year, or Miami on 70 grand a year.

>> Or Nashville, Tennessee. >> Yeah, you can buy in Nashville, Tennessee. Outskirts. >> But the uh but I mean the the point is that that that's what you're facing. So, what's your what you want is some things that aren't compatible.

You want her to be able to stay at home and live in an area that your income won't afford you to buy a home. And so you're going to make a choice here somewhere.

Um and the you know, if you want her to stay at home, you're going to move further out.

Mhm. You're going to move out to the country. Or you guys

you know, save like crazy for two, three years. You know what I mean?

Keep stacking cash and seeing what >> Yeah. What happens [clears throat] there. >> mind I don't mind the country at all. Uh we're we're looking even further south and further east to >> you What are the average prices of the homes you're looking at then?

Um I mean for a basic fixer-upper you're

at least 250. >> Oh, definitely. >> Yeah. You are a You're not in the Chicago land for that. Okay. All right, good. And you can do that. You can probably pull that off.

But uh Well, even at even at 250 I feel like that puts our mortgage above, you know, the recommended 25% of the income.

>> Yeah, it will it will It won't for now, but it would It would when she quits.

And then that also the $250,000 house is going to require us to put money up front to

fix and you know, fix whatever's broken in the house Be be careful. Yeah, just be careful. They're not nice houses.

>> Yeah, be careful. I mean, it can be done. Um but and as you figured out the

uh and with the numbers you're giving me, you're being very wise, okay?

But I thought you were talking about I can't afford a $700,000 house and I was saying, "Yeah, you can't." >> No, no, no. But um you know, that that's where I was. But the uh um there's a in in the real estate field, urban growth,

there's a a thing we call the ring theory. And with exceptions, but as a general

rule, if you drop a pebble in the central business district, the main downtown area, every ring that that

pebble go the water goes out, gets cheaper. With the exception of mountains for views and lakes and golf courses. But if you stay away from those three things, it gets cheaper as you go out um until you touch another area that's another uh another metro area. But you know, to live in in the close proximity

to downtown Chicago is much more expensive than it is to live 50 miles

outside uh over in Indiana. You know, as

as you have found. You already have realized that whether you realized it or not. Yeah. But that that's what you're seeing. So, just be careful and be thoughtful and you're already you're doing that. I think you're going to be okay. >> And know, Brandon, too, you know, your income will continue to go up, too. So, that 25% doesn't stay stagnant at a house payment, right? Because um I mean, if you guys bring home, you know, five grand a month, for instance, you know, off yours, you're looking at a 2,000 Yeah. payment for 1,050, yeah.

Yeah. So, but think that your 70 hopefully will be 75 soon and then eight You know what I mean? You will continue to to go up.

Exactly. It's not The thing you got to remember about personal finance is it's a film strip. It's not a snapshot. It's a move It's a moving target. Everything's moving over time and uh you're not stuck there. But just continue to be thoughtful about it and don't just throw up your hands. What we want to coach people about on this affordability in air quotes discussion

is to say well you know, I don't have math doesn't count because I want a house.

Mhm. And that's what we want to stop you from doing and say well, in my area and math doesn't And he's not saying any of that. He's saying he's being very wise and thoughtful about how he's approaching it. But we run into these people that um when I want something and I can't afford it, I don't know about you, but I got I kind of have this little drama queen fit. Like a little child having a hissy fit.

Mhm. Like down inside of me. You know, I want that. I want that. I want that and I can't afford it. I want that and I can't afford it. And I deserve it because I work so hard.

>> Yeah. Oh brother. >> Well, so what So, I just did quick math here. So, if his payment was Yeah, $2,000. Yeah, in today's market it would be a $275,000 home. So But he's making They're currently making 120. That's right.

>> They're not even married. So that >> already having kids in their head. Yeah.

They're getting They're They're [laughter] engaged. I mean >> That's right. I know. So they're He's He's way projecting out into the future on this. >> That's the thing too is like if you guys waited two to three years to buy a home, you're okay. >> buy the house now on 120 Yeah. and it

and two or three years before she comes home >> Yes. Yes. >> by then you're making 80 and you've got everything stabilized. Yeah. You're going to be okay. >> Yes. Yes. But don't But just don't you know, You You hate the complaining. You do, Dave. I do. >> And I get it, but also there is >> drama queen cuz it's inside of me, too.

It's inside of >> All of us have to It's called growing up. >> But also, I think we can all say out loud it is it is You hate when I say this, but it is true. It is harder today. I know.

>> Because of the income and the like So, so we acknowledge it. It is harder and it sucks. >> rule. But, that's not a That doesn't mean you get a pass on math, and you get to go destroy your life because they want something.

>> no, you don't. I know. I know. But, it just It's like a It's like a man, this is not what it was, and now we have to move forward.

That is why I hate when people just complain on Instagram or TikTok about it, and there's no solution.

Where you buy >> Yes. Yes. changes everything.

>> Yeah. Mhm. >> You don't You can't call me up and say, "I want to live in Silicon Valley." >> Be James, and just live in a Where's James live? >> It's not a tiny home. It's a log cabin.

>> Log cabin. >> James has a log cabin. So, there you go.

>> We love it. He's a homesteader. I didn't know. >> James? Mhm.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

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But, there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's a discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show.

Sorry. Little backed up, little hard to get in here. But if you got a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head on over to the website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool

that's built and trained only on proven

Ramsey principles. So, like we loaded 3 years or 4 years worth of this show in there as the data say data set. And we loaded all the books we've written and the articles we've written and all that stuff as the data set. So, there's no garbage in there from TikTok or from trash, you know, from some get-rich-quick thing built into it. So, the data set is all stuff we have said.

And that's all AI is. It just regurgitates what the data set is. So, it's going to answer the question exactly like one of us would.

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It's pretty cool. Thousands of people are using it every day. It's crazy, y'all. I mean, they're blowing up. All right, Rachel is in West Virginia. Hi, Rachel. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Okay, so I'm having a hard time getting

the best financial decision for my future. So, right now, I'm currently

a waitress making around 100k a year. I've probably

made a little over 40 some this year so far.

Good for you. You're working hard. Good for you. But, I've been considering going to nursing school.

And that would be $25,000

for just the LP and program.

But, it would also be making less money than I make now. No.

Not much.

You're working a lot of hours to make 100k on tables. How many hours you work in a week?

So, I'm only working like 38 to 40 hours.

You got a good restaurant.

Okay. That's a hot ticket item.

All right. Um Nice place. >> the what's the nursing position you're looking at? What is what's market value for that job per year? >> 80 to 100.

Rachel. So, the So, the LPN program is

25,000 and it says the average salary for that is 50. But,

then if you would go back and get your RN, which sometimes you can get a job that would pay for that part of the schooling, >> Mhm. >> then it is usually around 100k. Okay.

Have you called around different places of employment that you would probably be interested in and talked to anyone about what they're Cuz are you just finding these stats online?

So, I was already accepted into the LPN program. And that that is the one that is 25,000.

And then they told me after I would graduate the LPN program, if I would accept a job, most jobs would pay to go back to get your RN. >> Agreed. Mhm.

But most jobs pay more than 50 on LPN, too. Yeah. >> And the other thing is you can get all the work you want.

Nursing is possibly one of the most stable I mean, I've been doing this 30 years and I've never heard of a single

year when there was an overage of nurses. There's always a shortage.

So, you can always learn a job. There's a lot of different kinds of jobs you can do as a nurse. And you can work at a doctor's office Monday through Friday and work ER and clean up on the weekends if you want to stack some cash for a short time as a part-time gig once you've got your degree. So, I love nursing.

>> Yeah, and the 50 a year, Rachel, is only Well, well, let's say it is. For it's only for a for a second because you're going to be there they're going to pay for you to go to school and then you'll jump and sell You know what I mean? Like it's a stepping stone if it is. It's not going to be your forever salary.

Yeah. So, that's how I would look at it.

If that is the case in West Virginia where you are uh versus waitressing, I

mean, the fact you make 100 grand is amazing, but that's probably capped, right? Like that like that's probably you can only work, you know, so much doing that. And so, I do wonder Yeah, I don't think you got a chance to go to 150 there, do you?

Yeah, no. And it's really could end

anytime. That's just that restaurant. If that would close, then I'd be screwed.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um but I I would call around, too, Rachel cuz them just throwing numbers out at the school, I probably would do my own research, too, just to be curious about what people are paying. And it also depends on whether you're you know, how how rural an area of West Virginia you're in. Okay, if you're in small town West Virginia in the mountains, yeah, 50 might be right.

But if you're if you're in a metro area, it's more like 60 or 80.

Okay. All right. And cuz we we work with nurses all the time. I mean, it's it's And and I'm I'm just a from a wealth building perspective, a stable perspective, you always have work perspective, you can choose the environment you want to be in perspective, it's a great career.

Okay. And then my other question is

would you get So, with it being $25,000,

would you get a loan to have money

during the >> going to tell you get a loan.

We never tell anybody get a loan.

Okay. No. We always want you to be debt free. You got some money stacked, don't you?

Yeah. I mean, I paid off my all of my credit cards and my car and I just >> But you're making 100, you can stack up 25 by the time you need it.

Yeah. Yeah.

If you just if you just you're real careful. That I'm so proud of you. Way to go. I mean, but but the difference is not the snapshot of today, the difference is what's the best decision 10 years from today. Nursing are tables. Nursing.

>> Yep. Slam dunk. >> How old are you, Rachel?

I'm 26. Okay. Perfect. Good for you. I think that's great. Yeah, I just don't I see you being a very successful, wealthy

55-year-old nurse. I don't see you being a successful, wealthy 55-year-old waitress.

Yeah, that's kind of how I see it, too.

Yeah. I think it's a great step, girl. Do it.

How about it, kiddo? Be careful and be thoughtful and and milk it for everything it's worth, meaning get the best highest paying job possible that pays you all they will pay you.

>> some knowledge again. I would call around to hospitals and clinics and stuff and just say, "Hey, starting out, I'm just curious, what what average salary are you paying for this?" And just collect some data, too, cuz I think that's going to maybe I think it's going to be more you're going to see a better picture, not a worse picture than that 50. And the way I And I would frame this differently in my head, okay? Like, I want to go back to school and pay 25,000 to make half of what I used to make.

That's not the story here. Mhm. We would not tell you to do that.

But I want to go back to I want to pay 25,000 and go to school for a career that has a much better future and a higher upside financial. And I might have to take a little bit of a step back temporarily. That's a different story.

>> Mhm. And you need to frame the decision-making on that story, not on a

I just want to do what I love and I'm going to make half. That's not your story. You're not one of those. That's a Fruit Loop. You don't want to do that.

Okay, I just want to follow my passion and be broke. >> get so annoyed with those people, too. >> I know. That's just It's That's just dumb. >> Dave has not been in the studio for a while. All of his grievances are coming out on this show. Whenever he comes back, he's always like, "Oh, those people annoyed me. I'm going to talk about those people." [laughter] I have not had a single person annoy me.

>> No one has annoyed me. No, people that complain about houses being high, you don't like them. You don't like You don't like the people that are like, "I'm going to follow my passion and be It was that way when I left and it was that way when [laughter] I came back. It had nothing to do with while I was gone.

But anyway, the people I've been with were very sweet. Thank you very much.

[laughter] No, they weren't annoying. I'm saying people in America that annoy you. >> I know. I I have not had any interaction with those people. >> [laughter] >> At least he's not spreading libel about my housing situation. >> Yeah, Rachel, I I I didn't I didn't throw James' house under the bus. You You took his log cabin and turned it into a tiny house.

James, I'm sorry. [laughter] I had the wrong set of information.

Oh my god. >> James He lives in a log cabin palace as far as I'm concerned. I think he does.

>> [laughter] >> On acreage. On acreage. Thank you very much. >> Very nice. Very nice. Uh you got to love it.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Aaron and Megan are

with us. Hey guys, how are you? Good.

How are you? Great. I am so pumped to be

here. I don't [laughter] know if you can tell, but man. Hey, we're honored to have you. Where do you guys live?

Richmond, Virginia. All right, fine.

Well, welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And how much debt have you two paid off? $660,000.

Good miss gracious. How long did this take? 4 years. Woah! All right, there's

a story here. And your range of income during this 48 months? Started around 240, ended um up around 300.

>> Wow, what do y'all do for a living? I'm a physician. Mhm. And I have a small business. We do screen print, embroidery, um contract stuff. Pallets and pallets of t-shirts. >> And $660,000.

I was going to guess mortgage, but then you said MD, so student loans or mortgage or both?

>> Both. Oh, good. Debt-free house and everything. >> Woah! Amazing. WEIRDOS. YEAH. OH, LOOK.

OH, there's the doctor's house. [laughter] Okay, I see it now. All right. We repainted. Oh. I like it. I like it. I like the blue shutters. I liked it. That's fine. >> Oh, y'all, that's great.

>> How old are you two?

I'm almost 35. 38. And you have a paid-for house and a paid for MD degree.

Mhm. Wow. How much of this was student loans, how much was the house? The house um was 317, the rest were student loans.

Woah. Yeah. Half and half, basically.

>> About half, yeah. Wow. So, you come out of you come out of med school and he's printing t-shirts like a crazy man, like hand over fist, and you're going to work like all the time, and you're going to clean this mess up. And you went on just plowed right on through the house and everything. Yeah. Well, we only met like 5 years ago. Um so, he kind of buried into the debt.

Yeah. Ah, okay. >> "Yeah." >> [laughter] >> I was scared. >> What caused Yeah, what happened?

Okay, so all that was 4 years ago. So, what happened 4 years ago? Well, we got we got married um and we start looking at this and it's like, "Babe, you can reform. You know, you can reform.

We've got all this stuff. We've got to get rid of it. Um yeah, it was real scary. It's just the daily compounding.

I looked at those interest payments and I was like, "We got to get rid of this." >> still had credit cards. Yeah. No debt, but credit cards. Yeah.

And so, and I had some savings, um but I wasn't making any loan payments cuz they were in deferment. >> Mhm.

So, I have been listening to you guys probably since uh 2012. >> Mhm. Um yeah, so He's a disciple.

>> Yeah, I'm a disci- I'm a little bit of a disciple. I've always run my business that way, you know, debt free. Yeah. Um and always tried to keep my expenses low and Okay, so you knew the antidote and you were a wee bit excited about the fact that >> was so ready. I bet you were over the top, though. >> Yeah. Was he over the top? He was him.

HE WAS HIM. >> [laughter] >> I'D SAY MAYBE JUST SAY 10% OVER THE TOP, not that >> [laughter] >> crazy, not over crazy.

>> over the top. >> like him. It's a good over the top. I mean, he you came at her with like a fire hose, though, right? I mean, like Yeah, she was she was drinking from it, though. I had her drinking from it.

Yeah. [laughter] >> Okay, so you'd had enough, too. You wanted out. >> Oh, yeah.

Okay, so it wasn't a big argument or anything. It's just a It was just a big mountain. No, that's one of our big strengths, I think, is you know, we've always kind of been on the same page on money and we, you know, It's awesome. Wait, so did you guys work extra What What was the What was one of the big things you did that you were like, "This helps so much?" Was the income I mean, you guys you did great on the income >> Yeah.

Well, I mean, he was a maniac. I mean, the first, you know, couple years we were together, 100 hours a week.

Sunday to Saturday.

>> I was doing um I was taking like 25 nights a month of hospice call. Whoa. Um I'm also in the reserves, so I drill one weekend a month. So, we just were working non-stop. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Yeah. Oh my gosh. Did the reserves pick up any of this? A little bit. Okay.

>> Yeah. They like a 10 grand hit or something? >> Yeah, couple loan repayments, yeah. Yeah, I thought they had a hit on that. Yeah, that's good. >> So, what happens now? Now that everything you're you've paid everything off, what does life look like? Cuz I mean, that's intense what you guys have just explained. Yeah. Buy furniture.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. We still have one unfurnished room in our house. It took us 2 years to buy furniture after we bought it. But yeah, I mean, we have two boys who we absolutely love.

Um Maybe want a third. Yes. And just get them set up for success. Mhm.

That's amazing. And not working 90 hours 100 hours a week, yeah. Yeah, yeah, we We want our time back. It's amazing, you guys.

>> life back. But now you you earned [clears throat] it back and you're done. I mean, 4 years of hell and you're 100% free for the rest of your life. So, what's this What's the home worth, probably?

Um it's in the fives. Yeah. Yeah.

And how much you got built up in the nest egg?

1/3 What's What's in your 401? Oh, yeah, like 180. Yeah, 180 plus.

Yeah, it's all through work.

Little over two. Okay. All right, so you're you're right at millionaire status then. Yeah, close. Yeah. Baby steps to millionaires. Making a couple hundred, you can do whatever you want to do the rest of your life. But you rolled You You hit it hard there for a period of time. >> Yeah. A lot of mac and cheese. Was it worth it? I'm never I'm not eating any more mac and cheese. >> [laughter] >> Was it worth it? Absolutely. Absolutely.

It's a best thing we've ever done, you know, financially, but also for our marriage.

It's helped us a lot. Communication, um and just sticking to a plan and doing something together every month, you know, we're we're doing the budget, we're reconciling it reconciling, you know, >> Yeah. going through all the steps. >> Walking through them together. How old are the boys? They're both under two, so 22 months and 8 months. Okay, so they were all through this whole process. Towards the end of the journey, they you were having babies, too, which is a whole other feat, right? Oh, yeah. of doing all of that. So, gosh, you guys.

You lived a lot of life in 4 years.

Congratulations. >> and debt free. Thank you.

What do you tell people if they say, "Can you do this?" You tell them they can do it? Yeah. Absolutely. [snorts] >> It's temporary, you know, just work your butt off and it's worth it. Yeah, absolutely. You can do it. Dedication.

You have to believe in yourself and go for it and don't stop and keep keep working through the baby steps. >> Yep. And it's all about messaging. So, we just called ourselves broke.

Like, no, we can't have that. We're broke. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, got to I've told I've told MDs that before when they call in. It's good for them to hear that sometimes. You are a broke doctor. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah, but you're not. And here's what's interesting, too. We were talking about this affordability thing a while ago.

Mhm. Their home was is, you know, when they bought it wasn't a half million.

And it's a half million dollar house today and she's a doctor. Mhm.

Hello. Okay? I mean, this is not

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You chose where you were living and what neighborhood you bought in. >> Wisdom, yeah. You didn't go buy a house five times that size, which your contemporaries probably did. People came out of med school with you, they're still sitting with 300 and then they put a million dollar mortgage to go with it to prove I'm a stupid doctor.

And that's because doctors are notoriously bad with money. And so, um that the people that graduate with you instead you went the other way and that they're acting like somehow you're you know like but you now you're free. That's right. >> And worth a million dollars and going to be worth two million in a heartbeat.

The way you're going so congratulations. I'm very proud of y'all. It's it's worth pointing out that y'all made great choices. Yes.

>> Along the way here and that's also what got you there.

We have people calling that make 300 and they they have nothing. You know what I mean? They're stressed out and they're living paycheck to paycheck. So you guys you killed it. Absolutely. Did y'all have people cheering you on during this?

Oh yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, absolutely. Family. Yeah, we had a lot. A lot of people in our corner. Yep, that's great. Oh, you guys are amazing.

>> people rolling their eyes. Mhm. Yeah, there's there's those. And a few people who have followed by example just hearing our story and now they're paying off their debts. Hey, I like it. That's good. That's good. Well, that if we can infect the medical community with this, it would be awesome. What a weird word to say about the medical community. >> [laughter] >> It was it was I chose it carefully.

It makes it I wanted to be contagious. No pun intended. I want this to be contagious in the medical community. Well, way to go you guys. Very very proud of Thanks for coming on and sharing your story.

Does it feel right now standing here?

Surreal. Absolutely surreal. What you said. Yeah, it's it's wild. I never thought that I would yeah, be up here. But it's cool.

It's kind of like you were driving 160 miles an hour and then you stopped.

And you went whoa, those white lines aren't a solid line. Who knew? Yeah, that's that's amazing. Well, way to go you guys. Congratulations. Very proud of you. AARON AND MEGAN, RICHMOND, VIRGINIA. 660,000 paid off. House and everything including

medical school debt all done in 48

months making 240 to 300. The secret sauce is working together and then all they did was work all the time until they cleaned it up. But, they're 35 years old and they're free and they're Baby Steps Millionaires.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, [music] TWO, ONE. WE'RE

DEBT-FREE!

YEAH! >> [cheering]

>> I LOVE IT. WAY TO GO!

>> [music]

[music]

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slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question is from Shauna in Arizona. My husband and I are in the process of selling a home that we purchased 10 years ago. We'll be moving to another state in a few years and will rent until we're ready to make the move.

As we consider setting aside a proceeds from this sale for a few years, what is

the best type of account to park it in?

Should we put it in high yield savings, CDs, individual stocks, or is there some other option that we should consider?

Um so the honestly, the two places when you think about putting money aside is either savings is one category and then investment is another category. So anytime you put money into the market would be considered an investment. So whether we never would recommend individual stocks, but anything whether it's mutual funds, index funds, and kind of our rule of thumb is if you're not going to use the money for 4 to 5 years, um then then yeah, you could probably invest it and ride the market out because there'll be lows and highs. And so you want to make sure that just like a home, right?

You wouldn't buy a home and when there's no equity turn around and sell it. So if you're going to if you are going to use the money in around 4 years or less, then a high yield savings account is where I would park it. And our friends at Fairwinds have a great smart bundle where you can get a no fee checking account. I think it's up to 10 high yield savings accounts you can have within your name.

And then um the Ramsey B Beaver debit card with that, too. But a high yield savings is where I would park it. If you're going to use that money, you said a few years, so I'm assuming that's two to three. So, I would just throw it in a high yield savings account.

Yeah. That's the safe thing.

more I would lean towards something like just an S&P 500. Okay? 97%

of the 5-year periods in the stock market's history have made money.

So, you wouldn't lose money 97 times out of 100 if you left it alone 5 years or more. That's why Rachel said that's investing.

Now, if you do it 4 years, what's the number? I don't remember the probability on that one. Or 3 years, what's the number? I don't know. But um I mean, the last 3 years have

been um you know, 25, 24, and 18.

>> But that's not normal.

But if you'd left it alone for 3 years and you'd been in the market, you'd have that versus high yield savings.

Obviously, looking back would have been smart. But you don't know that. It could be down for 3 years, too. So, but the

number of down periods in a the a long

period of time is very, very low. So, if

to the extent you can afford to lose a little bit of it and be comfortable, then you can go with uh the you know, you can go with an S&P 500 index fund. So, you just kind of got to work that through uh and figure it out. But most if you if you're just even the tiniest little bit scared, high yield savings. You're not with that kind of stuff. If you had 3 years, would you throw it in a S&P?

I might go 50/50. Okay. You know, if you got Let's say they got 500,000 out of this house or something like that. I might put 250 in the S&P and 250 in the high yield.

Kind of hedge my bets a little bit. >> if you're going to be turning around and in a house in the next couple of months, Obviously, it would just be high yield, but over a little bit more period. So, yeah, I think you're That's true. What you're willing to risk.

>> years or more, I start to think about some portion of it being in there. Five years or more, I'm putting all of it in there. >> What is do you have the stats off the top of your head on election years? Is it usually down election years?

No, usually up. It is up, okay. I was just wondering, not that you can time the market, but >> I wouldn't. And on midterms, I don't know.

I haven't looked at that. Uh-huh.

>> No. But I still know if you're like heading into a year, if you're like, "Eh, let me hold off for a few months and see the landscape of the world if it I don't know. >> Every time I I try to do that >> Every time I try to do that, I lose money. It doesn't work.

>> So, um I guess wrong, you know, whichever way it is. So, I just quit doing that. I just quit saying I started saying, "Okay, if I put 250,000 in and it goes down 10%, >> Mhm. I lost 25 grand out of my 500.

Yep.

Didn't kill me. Right. >> Okay. Hurts. Hurts. But that And that would be highly unusual. Yes. Okay.

Very unusual three-year period of time.

Yes. Like almost never happens, okay?

>> funny. So, but if you thought about that way, but you So, that's kind of how I gauge it is if I lost something that was an unusually bad loss, Yeah. it's still not that much.

>> You know what? That's a hap- That literally just happened to me and Winston. We opened up a like an S&P 500 thing to throw some money in Mhm. uh cuz we're looking at diversification, couple of things. And we usually we had never really done that. We had had other investments like 401(k)s, Roth, and then another account that we just would put it. So, we're like, "Well, let's maybe we'll have another one brokerage account cuz Winston may buy, you know, something out of it uh with his real estate stuff.

And I'm not lying, you guys. We >> [laughter] >> We put some money in and we moved it from a high yield savings into this And it went down. Iran Iran happened like five days later and Winston was like, "Oh, just don't just don't look at anything >> [laughter] >> right now. I But it didn't it didn't drop that much.

>> No, and then it came back and it's >> dropped like 3%. >> literally had to tell myself, Rachel, you do this for a living. It's okay. You just you just don't look.

You ride the market. Don't jump off the roller coaster. But I thought out of all times in the last 3 years >> Yeah. You picked the worst one.

>> I picked the like 4 days before. Who knew? And I was like, "Dadgummit." Trump bombs Iran. Oh Just as you decide to be an investor.

>> [laughter] >> But But again, you you can go back and look at those charts. That's an interesting thing to do for the since the first of the year. >> But it hurts.

Mhm.

You're okay. Yeah, and now it's back up over what it was. >> Yes. You know, and it hurts your feelings, but it's not the actual math is not devastating.

>> No, it's just it's your harder money and you're like seeing it going the other way. >> Yeah. And I don't want it to go that way. And it hasn't now. It's back up.

>> That's right. No, everything's fine. But I had that mo about a few days of thinking, "Dadgummit." >> I did that uh Come to think of it, I dropped a chunk in about the time Trump decided to do tariffs. Oh, yeah.

>> And there was about a month period where it like choked. >> [laughter] >> You know, and then it came right back up and through the roof. But it like for a for a just a moment there, the market just decided to go And that and that's really why I'm like, I don't People ask, "Do you check Do you check the market? Do you look?" And I'm like, "I really don't.

I look at our accounts once a year." Um Yep. And then this was like literally the only time in our 16 years of marriage of doing this together >> the account every day, you're a day trader.

Yes. Yes. And you can't do that. So, you park it for long term. Long term.

It's going to go up and down. That's the plan. Charles is in Boston. Hey Charles, what's up?

How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Um so, I guess essentially my question is I grew up very privileged. I have about $9 million in investments all through trusts from

my parents, my grandparents. Um I'm a few years out of college.

And >> How old are you? >> well. I make I'm 28. Cool. Good for you.

Yeah, and I I make around 80 to 90k a

year. Mhm.

But I'm at this I'm at this crossroads where I'm studying for my GMAT and I'm hearing people talk less and less about the effectiveness of going to graduate school, um at least for business, um and whether or not I should just start my own company, um start a business.

Where Where do your thoughts lie given I have such uh ample resources at my disposal and a

safety net Yeah. can cushion any fall. I

wouldn't use that to make my decision.

I would pretend like that money's not there. And then go be a wise

heart-filled 28-year-old that kicks butt and takes names.

And let And let your life be Let your Let that money be gravy that's in the background. Um you know if you're stumbling and fall, you're going to be you have a huge safety net, but that doesn't make you That doesn't say, "Oh, you need to go in business." And people who don't have $9 million don't need to go in business.

No, you need to go in business if you're supposed to go into business. Business is hard. Business is thrilling. Business is fun. I've been an entrepreneur my whole life. I thoroughly encourage you to do it. >> It It but you're you're going to have the Your your boss is a butt.

He'll drive you crazy when you're on your own business.

He'll work you to death. >> And what kind of business do you want to open? Um What kind of business do you want to open?

I'm sure about that as at the moment, but I know my knowledge and passion lies within the automotive industry. Okay.

>> Whether it's maybe selling classic cars like my brother, starting a boutique.

That'd be fun. You know, go you can do that. You can do that easy. And that's something you can test and get back out of.

You you don't have to say I'll never go to graduate school, instead I'm going to sell classic cars. You can say I'm going to try this. I'm going to experiment. If I don't like it, I can't make money at it, I'm not good at it, I'll try something else and I'll experiment.

That's what entrepreneurs do.

Very seldom does what you set out to do end up being the thing you're doing 20 years later.

Cuz business and and the environment changes too much. I think you ought to try it, but not based on the fact you got 9 million.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruze is my co-host today. Samantha is

in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Samantha. How are you? Um better than I deserve, but beautifully broken is well. I understand. How can we help today?

So, my husband so I have been a stay-at-home mom for 27 years. The last 20 I've been raising our disabled daughter who passed away in September. I'm sorry.

Okay. I'm saying Um she passed away in September. My husband has a really long history of financial infidelity. Whoa, whoa, stop just a second. Stop just a second. Breathe. Okay. I'm sorry.

>> It's okay. Get your breath back so we can hear you. So, your your daughter passed in September? Yes. What what was her name?

Her name was Abby. Mhm. And what was her disability, honey?

Um she was a quadriplegic with cerebral palsy. And she and she lived she lived 20 years? She did. She did.

Mentally she was fine. She um but she couldn't walk. She was in a wheelchair her whole life. She couldn't even turn over in bed. I did everything for her. So, not only did I lose her, I lost my identity because I just don't know how to be normal anymore. Like, that's all I did was take care of her for her. >> And fight for her, and do for her, and give her >> she'd been gone for 7 8 months now, right? But it felt like yesterday. It's just horrible.

Anyway, And so, your husband You said your husband was financial infidelity. You mean he's been doing all kinds of stuff financially that you didn't know about. Yes, but he's done it our entire marriage. Like, our entire marriage he's always He'll get on eBay, and he'll like hundreds of like lots of money, like thousands of dollars. Currently, right now he has one book in his shopping cart that's $6,000.

Um in December of '24, he had $30,000 in

all these loan places, like OppLoans and

um finance places. And so, we sold our oil

leases so that we could get out of that debt. We sold our kids' future to clean up his mess. And I told him, "If you ever do this again, I'm going to divorce you." Well, of course he did it again in March. And And right after our daughter

died, he did it again in March. And um I

I just happened to catch it because it was it went into his per diem account. He works out of town, and we have two separate accounts. His check has always gone into our joint account.

I immediately transfer it to my account, which I I pay the bills with. And I've done that after about the 10th time of all of this stuff he does. I That's just how we did it, and I didn't care. That's how it was going to be. You're not going to have access to our bill money. But So, anyway, this last loan in March, I

got online to check his per diem account to make sure that his per diem had went in. And there was $12,000 in there. And so, I called him, and I said, "What is going on?" "Oh, I got a loan. I need to buy some books and yada yada yada." So, I went straight to the bank.

I pulled out every penny except $100. And I told him, I said, "This is what's going to happen here.

And so, he agreed. I paid the loan back, and he did sign the partition and exchange agreement. Our house that is paid for is in my name. Our land that we owe $23,000 for is in my name.

>> [clears throat] >> And I thought all was well. And so, then on the 24th of April, we went to a retreat for bereaved parents, and the whole time he was in my ear about buying a truck. I want to buy a truck. And I'm like, "Listen, we're here for Matt and Abby. I've lost two kids.

I've lost two children." And anyways, um after the retreat, I got a lot out of the retreat for me. After the retreat, on the way to the airport, I told him, I said, "Listen, I want us to fight for our marriage." I said, "I told him, I said, I need you to know that I have stayed all of these years for Abby.

And after her passing, when you did this

crap in March, I stayed to protect her home, cuz we built this house for her.

Everything about it is handicap accessible." And I said, "I stayed for her." And I said, "I don't have to do either anymore. I don't have to. Like, I need you to fight for our marriage. I love you." The following Monday, last Monday, he went and got another loan, 30% interest,

and he bought a truck in another town, another state for $3,500. All of these parts are coming in. All this random stuff So, I'm confused. Okay. So, he has a very

clear message from you as to what's going to happen, and he does this anyway. So, Dr. John Delony says behavior is a language. So, he's just saying goodbye, isn't he? I know.

Yes, he is. And so, I've spoke with an attorney Okay. >> and it's going to cost me $3,500.

>> Yeah, so what? I I have it, Dave. I'm trying to figure out I have just a little bit of debt. I have um >> You have You have Where's the $12,000 you were just talking about?

He spent it. He He opened a separate account where he cuz he's He works out of town. And so, he went to the town in South Carolina >> No, no, no, no, honey. I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about the other money. You said you had $12,000 cash from the other >> I No, I paid the loan back. I did. I paid it Oh, you paid the loan off.

So, there's no loan anymore.

You've gone through so much tragedy and in the midst of that, he's not able to function apparently and for >> Well, he's always been like this. for whatever reason. And um and so, you're calling an end to it. And so, yeah, that's what you're doing. I mean, I mean, there's >> Yes. There's not You You just you going to go get an attorney and they're going to advise you on how to do this. If you didn't sign the loan you are not liable.

No, I We are both on the loan. The land The So, our house is paid for.

We bought We bought a separate lot that Our house is on 3 acres. We bought an additional 3 acres. >> Well, sell them both. It doesn't matter.

>> I can't I can't, Dave. We're building this for Abby. Abby's not there anymore, honey. I don't I can't I only owe $23,000.

That's it. >> but you don't have to live there.

I I I can't. Yes, you can. No, I'm not.

That's not an option. Okay. I I just can't do that. The deal is The deal is this. The deal is this. As long as you have that property in his name in any way, shape, or form in Texas and you're married, you're going to have a problem. So, you've got to decide.

Um I think Abby would want you happy, Samantha. Yeah, and a house doesn't define Abby's memory. It doesn't live in a house. Abby's memory lives in your mind and in your heart. And um

you you're in untenable situation and you can't use Abby as a reason to stay in a in a situation where you're being abused. And um not physically abused but but a

financially abused. And you're you're going to draw a line in the sand and there's going to be some costs that go with that to get you this protection.

You may or may not keep the house. I don't know if you can keep it or not. I'm not sure. But um but I I want you to deal with this and quit trying to make him do stuff.

You know, he has told you loud and clear what he's going to do. Yeah. If you expect him to change under any circumstances, I mean, if he put all that if he gave you the deed to everything in the house and you told him if he ever does it again, you're going to take it all and then he goes and does it three more times after that, this guy's made a real clear statement. >> Mhm.

And so, now you've got to decide what the rest of your what the next chapter of your life looks like, what healing looks like. Yeah, o- over all of this, the marriage and the the children and everything.

>> life. You >> [music] >> you had an incredible purpose, Samantha.

Yeah. Of being a caretaker and what the mom you were to your daughter.

And now there's another purpose for you in the world. Yep. And to be the healthiest [music] you, Samantha. It is to get out and define that. Yeah. Next chapter.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music] >> One of my best friends in the world because I read one of his books 25 years ago, >> [music] >> reached out to him and we've ended up speaking on stages all over America for the last 25 years together. Been a part of the Ramsey family indirectly for a long, long time. Dr. Henry Cloud, acclaimed author uh in the and leadership expert, clinical psychologist, New York Times best-selling author many times over, 45 books including the iconic Boundaries that have sold nearly 20 million copies.

I sold at least 2 million of those.

He has an extensive executive coaching background and a brand new book out that is one of my favorites that Henry's ever done. Uh it's called Your Desired Future.

Welcome, my friend. Good to be here. Hi, Henry. Hey there. Good to see you. Two of my favorite people. Aw, stop that.

You say that to all of us. No, all your podcasters. >> Only only when it you know, when it improves in the next generation.

>> [laughter] >> Keep it going. Keep it going. We love you, Henry. Uh five essential steps that

take you where you want to go. I distinctly remember you coming into Ramsey into a leadership meeting about 20 years ago that we were having and we were arguing about this particular business unit that had the flu. It wasn't doing good. And then you embarrassed me because you said, "Well, what do you want it to be in 5 years?" And I said, "I want it to be making money and profitable." And you went, "Well, no kidding." But but no, really, what is your desired future for this thing?

And then what must be true that's not true today for you to get to that desired future?

And that not only applies to a business unit that's got the flu. It applies to your health, your marriage, um your finances, hello, getting out of debt, all that kind of stuff. So, your your desired future, this is a framework that you've used to coach people, right?

>> Yeah, companies and individuals. It What I did was, you know, there's so much stuff out there that's good stuff.

And people go, "Yeah, I'm going to do this." And then but I thought, "Wouldn't it be helpful to have a little model? This is a GPS. You wake up every day. You know, if I'm trying to get there, are these five things present?" Ask the question, "Are there Is there a universal path for that?" And studying the human body, the most most incredible organism to getting from here to there, and it was amazing.

You know, the brain, the prefrontal cortex starts out with a vision. We're the only ones that can see a future that doesn't exist. A dog doesn't do that.

And then it says, "Well, how am I going to get there? Well, not a caliber." Well, not to go across the room, you're going to get the right strategy with a plan. And then you got to Your brain is some it it it creates a measurement and accountability system. And you start walking that plan, you get off, and it fixes you. And that path has components to it that

are really really crucial. Yeah, that are so helpful. And this can be applied to every part of your [clears throat] life, right? Yeah. These five steps.

It's a mom getting the kids in the van on school in the school on time. Yeah.

Or right seriously, I have global companies, billions and billions that use this as their operating system.

>> Mhm. And I mean, you guys this this is when I looked at Financial Peace, you know, years ago I said, "Dave, this works because it's designed in the way that people get from here to there." >> Mhm. And all the components are there. And and the five components it starts with vision. Which is I guess the desired future, right? >> It is and here's what's interesting about your brain, the way it's wired.

The brain hates ambiguity. It can't

stand it cuz it doesn't know what to do.

It loves clarity. Even if it's bad news, it likes bad news that's clear better than no news. >> That's right because once it has clarity

about where where I am now and I don't want to be there and I got to get somewhere else, it starts to activate these systems that bring everybody to the party to actually get there. But if you don't have it if you don't have clarity, I I mean, I've heard you quote stats from the stage.

What's the people that write down their goals? >> Mhm. Was it 80% more likely?

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because you're giving your brain clarity.

>> That's why the baby steps I feel like in our world are so effective because it's like step one, get a thousand dollars.

Step two, get out of debt. Step three, it's a it's an obvious pathway of a vision of where you want to go.

>> With measurement accountability that has the question. Once you've defined the specific activities that are going to move the needle, then you've got to ask yourself on a regular cadence, "Am I doing what I said I was going to do?" >> Mhm. And if I'm not, I got to correct that problem, which we all have problems, we miss a day. But if you don't correct it quickly, it becomes a pattern. Patterns are mutations in the strategy that become your DNA and DNA becomes

identity. Mhm. So, I'm not a person that missed a payment. I'm a person that misses payments. You got to fix it

quickly. Mhm. Yeah. So, what must be true that's not true now? And one of the things one of the five things is do you have the the the talent around you or in your or

within yourself to you know, in in a business setting, you know, do we have the right people on the team to be able to pull the thing off that we just said we wanted to pull off? >> That's right. >> And if you look at them and you go, "That bunch isn't going to get us there." >> That's right. Then you got to get different people on the team.

Well, what about when it's an individual and you're looking at yourself in the mirror and going, "I don't have that talent." Well, we don't usually.

even if you wanted to let's say you want to lose 50 lb.

Well, you've been trying and it's not working. So, obviously all the talent isn't present. And so, what do you do?

You go bring the talent around you.

Who's that going to be? Well, it could you it could be one you pay for. It could be Weight Watchers. It could be a coach. It could be a trainer. It could be Uncle Sam. Who not that Sam. Uncle Joey.

>> [laughter] >> Uncle Sam's probably not going to help you do >> Uncle Sam help you lose weight for sure.

I'm a wallet. >> yeah. But but you're going to you're going to have We were not designed to get anywhere by our self. If you if there's somewhere you can get by yourself, somebody else helped you to get that ability to begin with. So, you got to find out where are the deficits and who do I need to bring to the party that can help me. And that's what that's what people in debt do with you guys. They find the talent that's going to help them get there. Yeah.

So good. Okay, so when people are when they look out there and they have a goal and they think, "Here's what I want to do." And that could be again bettering your marriage. That could be a health goal. That could be a money goal. Whatever that looks like or even within business. What's a mistake people make all the time that you're like, "Oh, this if they knew one of these five things or if they were doing this differently they they probably wouldn't make it as much or at all. The biggest mistake

besides the vision, I mean you got to know where you're going. But the biggest mistake is they're like my dog Finley.

She's got a job. She's got a goal. It's to protect the house. Stranger comes to the door, she runs to the house and barks, but she never stops and says, "I wonder if that was helpful." I Is that going to get me closer to where I want to be on Thursday? So, the biggest mistake is they don't get above

what they're doing and ask the question,

"Is this going to work? Are the ingredients present that are going to get me there?" What we do is we just continue to go in our own patterns. The caller earlier that I heard when I was in the green room, he wants to start a business. If he started a business, which you gosh, you got to start he would just go do the way he's already wired. >> Mhm. And a lot of times until we learn

something and we do things the way we're already wired, it good luck with that. Yeah. What must be true that's not true today?

And you know, is it Do I need more talent around me? Do I need new some education that I didn't have?

>> control. You impulse control? Yeah, I mean, what must be true that's not been true that so far? What pattern what set

of movements have to change to get to the desired future? Cuz if it if there if something didn't need to change, you'd already be there. >> You You'd already be there. We wouldn't be We I mean, you know how to find lunch, right?

But look Here's Here's a good example. When you know, Tom Brady's got what this time five or six Super Bowl rings and Tampa Bay hadn't been to the playoffs in 14 years, called him and said, "Come down here and win a Super Bowl." Well, he knows how to do that. He didn't have a vision for that. But the first thing he did was he looked at that team, what's not true today.

He looked at that team, you're not going to win a Super Bowl without talent. There's four positions that are missing.

Next. Mhm. And they won the Super Bowl the next year. And got the people around them. That's right. That's right. >> just Brady. No, it wasn't just Brady.

>> your own talent. >> That's right. That's right. Yeah. It's good. >> There's something missing. The new book is Your Desired Future. We'll be back with Dr. Henry Cloud talk a little bit more about it. The five essential steps that take you where you want to go.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, George Kamel here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it? You run into Target for one thing and somehow walk out $87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles? Just me?

Okay. Well, that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention to how they spend their money. So, it does whatever it wants.

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It's like having a money coach in your pocket. Your money's been freelancing long enough. It's time to give EveryDollar a full-time job.

>> [music]

[music] >> Dr. Henry Cloud, the new book is called your desired future, the five essential steps to take you where you want to go.

So, step one is you got to know what the desired future is. It's called vision. Step two is what? Step two is you got to engage the talent, bring the talent around you that's going to help you get there. Step three? Step three is you got to know how you're going to get there, and that's a strategy with a plan.

Okay. So, in our world that would be the baby steps. That'd be the baby steps, and the the plan tells you when you're going to implement those, who you're going to meet with, you know, you got to get to >> Every detail. Every activity that's going to move the needle. Everything else is I'm going to go to the gym three days a week. Strategy is I'm going to increase my water intake, decrease my sugar intake, so on, right? Yeah, and and that's how you're going to pay down this amount the this amount every month.

And you got to then you got to step four is measurement accountability of that.

Are you doing what you said you were going to do? And if you're not then you better ask the question, why not? And solve that problem, and then fix it quickly.

So, I've heard it said um I think it was an old Earl Nightingale quote that don't when it comes to goal setting, and all this is is a um

a a detailed approach to actually implementing and causing the goal to happen, not just setting. It's not just simple setting it. But, he used to say that um doing what it takes to hit the goal is not usually people's problem. It's what they have to give up.

Long term, too. They don't they don't understand what they're going to have to give up to get there. That's right.

>> I had the trade-off is what the the negative trade-off is the real price to be paid to get to your desired future. >> That's right. Because usually the things we have to give up, there's an emotional attachment. Mhm. Or there's some sort of

immediate gratification in it. Yeah. It

feels good to go make that impulse buy.

It feels good to eat that hot fudge sundae. feels good to avoid that difficult conversation. It feels good to not have to make 100 sales calls.

And there's that kind of immediate comfort or gratification. Or there's an

avoidance of something difficult.

You know, a lot of times difference in people that reach goals and the ones that don't it's not brains and talents and abilities. It's some are willing to do

the things the other people don't want to do. And the number one factor that loads on

the accomplishment of a goal is not motivation because that will wane. Now, that's important, but your motivation's going to go up and down. Number one factor is the belief that it's possible.

The belief that it's possible.

And the little incremental steps that bring that about. One of the things that you I keep talking about you guys cuz you you've been doing this well for so long. There

are so many people that are drowning in debt. How am I going to It's impossible.

It's possible. And then they turn this on and they see somebody who was in more debt than them come and do the stream.

And what do they do? Their prefrontal cortex kicks in and says, "Wait.

It's possible." Now, I checked that one off. Now, I just got to get the plan.

But if your brain doesn't believe that That's why testimonies are so powerful.

And being just getting getting out of your

circle. Some people grow up in poverty or belief systems and you can't make money if you don't have money and all this junk in their head. You got to get out of that circle even to begin to have

a vision for what's possible. That's why you got to surround yourself with people that have done it and are doing it. Then

it becomes possible. Now, I got to get curious about how they do it. Yeah, and creating creating the new habits around it. And what you said about the comfort, you're having to give up what's comfortable. Michael Easter was on the show last week talking about the comfort crisis, his book, and how Oh gosh. >> When you Yeah, when you do anything difficult, you're go you're going to feel that stress. You're going to feel that tension. But most the time that result

ends up being a better situation for your life than where you were. But yet in our world today in 2026, I'm like it's the comfort's everywhere though, right? We get to set the degrees that we want in the room. We get to listen to the music we want when we want it, watch what we want I mean it's just we can Amazon I mean like the amount of comfort we have today on demand on demand, personalized to us of what we want, our algorithms, everything.

Like it is wild to to get out of that. Do you feel like it's harder today than ever before? It's you know one of the ones that scares me the most is the parental comfort.

>> It is a lot more comfortable to hand your kid an iPad to shut him up

than to step in there and have some limits and some boundaries and go through that temper tantrum or whatever you got to do. And we have a generation

of kids that have grown up that

have not heard the word no and had to deal with the discomfort of hearing the

word no and the structure. And that one scares me. >> Interesting. From a generational standpoint. >> Yeah, it's This is the first two generations that we've ever had a parent call when we're interviewing someone.

For a job.

We're doing a job interview and the parent gets involved. >> Oh, in your company? >> Yeah. The parent Yeah, the mother of the of the 24-year-old will call. And say what? Like they applied They want to they they want to influence the process.

Oh. They want to help. Yeah, so life for that mom, you should influence that process years ago. >> [laughter] >> Yeah.

No, I mean that they they want to they want to help Junior get a job. And and you know, but instead they just, you know, they did just the opposite by calling. Because I don't That makes me think, I don't think I want this guy. No, cuz you got to hire mom, too, to get to work done.

>> That's right. That's right. That's right. But yeah, but but stepping out of the comforts, um, I think it's a big one for people today to achieve the goal that you're talking about and what you're talking about in this book.

[clears throat] Name one thing of value that gets better without pain first.

Some kind of price, yep. We can we There's two paths. There's easy and then it's going to become harder or there's hard now and then it'll be a lot easier. Those are the only two roads you can go down. Pick your pain. You're going to have a little now and a lot more later or you can have

you know, Yes. the other side where you take a little pain now. It It hurts to pay down that debt a little bit each week, but look what you're going to have

later. That's right. >> Pay a price to win. Live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. >> That's it. I have watched this boy right here in the last 5 years. I played golf

with him. You talk about pain.

>> [laughter] >> That boy and everybody with him was going I mean, we're looking for balls in swamps and places >> [laughter] >> they don't let people But but listen to this. And it's painful and he would just hit it and then he was off and then he'd go do the And but he put a strategy together. He got laid.

And I'm playing with him now.

It's unbelievable, but he had to go through the pain first. And we shared it, but we loved it. Okay, Henry, I think one of my Dad Dave said it [clears throat] at the last segment. One of the my your favorite one of my favorite books for you is Boundaries.

And you talk about necessary endings. There's been a couple of these.

Um, what caused you to write this book because you have been in the relation You were in the relational right counseling world for so long, too. And moving kind of more to the business side as well with people, but why specifically what need did you see that you're like, I need to write this book?

The need for people wanting to get somewhere whether in business or or personally, but not having just a simple

path of how it works.

And it applies to everything. You know, if you look at Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, they both had a vision similar.

You look at how the styles were very different, but these five elements were present in both. And if you can just have a simple path, then it's easy to get up in the morning and say, "Okay, are these things in place?" >> Mhm. It's what it is. It's a clear the clear message. I love it.

So good. >> Very good stuff. The new book is Your Desired Future, the five essential steps

that will take you where you want to go.

And my big takeaway Henry and I worked together on this and we worked a little bit with a Pat Lencioni, too, on a modified model that he and I used as well as we put all this together as as Henry put all this together, but we stole pieces of this. And the whole thing I get to is just, "Okay, this is where I desire to be. What must be true

that's not true today? Positively, what must I gain, but also must what must I give up?" >> To get to where I need to be to get to that vision and then lay out the clear steps, put the talent in place, uh and then hold and measure and accountability and then don't let the patterns shift off of the goal. Dr.

Henry Cloud, my friend, thank you for hanging out with us. >> Hey Carlos, good to be with you always.

Check it out. The book is Your Desired Future. Absolutely amazing.

>> [music]

>> Hey, George Kamel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start-to-finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseysolutions.com/realestate.

Our scripture of the day is Psalms 37:21. The wicked borrows, but does not pay back. But, the righteous is generous and gives. Bob Hope said, "A bank [music] is a place that will lend you money if you can prove you don't need it." >> [laughter] >> Somewhat true.

Hey, buying or selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal for the right price.

It's easy. Just compare agent profiles, interview them, and choose the right one to work with. We don't put anybody on Ramsey Trusted that's not Ramsey Trusted. Yeah, you can find a real estate pro for free at ramseysolutions.com/agent and click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

John is in Boston. Hey, John, how are you?

I'm doing great. How about you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh that's good to hear. Yeah, so I am in a kind of a precipice with my job right now. So, I am working in finance. I'm

making a good living, but I'm considering quitting it to do my YouTube full-time, which has been pretty successful lately. So, the instability of it worries me and I'm not sure if I should make the jump on it. Got you.

What do you make at the finance job?

So, right now I'm pulling in about 90K after bonuses. And what's the YouTube income looking like?

So, recently it's been about 250,000,

but this hasn't been like this I've only been doing this for a few years. It hasn't been like this consistently enough.

But >> Uh but you made twice as much.

Yeah. Yeah. I know. It's just I I worry

that, you know, with the instability of how my income goes up and down each month. Um I've even had a scare where I almost lost the channel and YouTube could just go poof overnight.

>> Okay, that's true. >> though it's >> They they might not go poof, but they might poof you.

Yeah, my channel specifically. Yeah, that that's going to stay around. >> That's happened to That's happened to better people than you. Yeah. And so, um

uh good job though. Yes, you ought to work on the YouTube. What What I mean, you're able to pull off a quarter of a million dollars. What advantage would you have if you were working full-time at it?

What could you do?

I've considered trying to expand it.

I've also kind of plateaued in terms of what I can do on the channel. I've tried everything I could. Um and So, what advantage is there to quitting?

Your finance job? >> I'd be a lot happier. And it's going to be >> [laughter] >> I wouldn't be working all the time.

Okay, but it doesn't really add revenue.

It doesn't add revenue.

No, it's it's mainly cuz I know with the finance job, I'm in a great career path.

Long-term, I'm going to be set for life.

Like, I will be financially sound, and you know, I'm at a point in my life where soon enough, I'm probably going to want to settle down, buy a house. I want to have a consistent income and know that, you know, when I'm 40, 50, whatever, I'm still going to have that income. >> income is as consistent as you are for

the next 5 years.

Okay? Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And

unless you do something to poison pill yourself. Okay, you say something or do something that gets you banned for life, right? That kind of a thing. But as long as you stay uh you know, keep your nose clean, so to speak, you know, you're going to be fine. The thing that the biggest danger there is twofold

of you know, you're a finance guy, so you're not when you're you you you have one platform that you're doing everything on. You're not well diversified, so you are completely subject to the whims of the YouTube algorithm, and they do change every day.

I mean >> Correct. >> Yeah, we we've had we've had we had literally billions of downloads on YouTube. So, our guys really know what they're doing here at Ramsey with this stuff. And so, we make a lot more than 250 on it. But the but it's also we're not we made the decision to be platform agnostic and not be exclusively stuck to uh this one particular thing.

So, we didn't buy one single stock. We want to be diversified and have a mutual fund. You follow the metaphor?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> So, you need other places to be doing whatever this wonderful thing is that's getting all these eyeballs.

Like a podcast platform, uh Spotify also now has video. Uh you

need to have other places carrying you, and that stabilizes you. And you need to

be very aware of everything that's changing TikTok now has video.

Everything is changing every day in all of the platforms and be following the trends not but but don't put don't make don't move all the house chips on one platform. Don't bet the farm on one platform. That's your danger.

Right now. >> Right. >> If you had a more diversified platform strategy and it worked that out, you'd be a lot safer and as YouTube becomes a thing of

the past becomes the MySpace of the day, right? Uh and someday it will, uh every every one of these technologies Twitter was a big deal and then it wasn't and now it's trying to be again, but I mean these things come and go as long as you're not dependent on one of them and you know the next one to jump on to then you're not going to get eaten by the alligators.

So, I would diversify my platforms and then I would quit. Yeah, and I assume John the content you're putting [clears throat] out you you you love.

Would you say like you're good at it?

It's a passion. It's fun.

Oh, yeah. I definitely um I have a lot

of fun doing it which I don't hate my day job. It's just I have a lot more fun. >> times your day job, you can't call [clears throat] your day job stable compared.

Cuz you got to screw this up for four freaking years to break even as your break even analysis.

If you're making 400 because you've got more platforms going and you're making 100 on the other, you got four years of margin to screw up.

Mhm. That's not unstable.

That's like saying I that's like saying I can make 150 as a CPA in the open market, but I want to make 40 working for the state government because it's stable. Well, that's not stable. That's just mathematically stupid.

You follow me? >> Mhm. Yeah, they could fire me at any time.

So, I guess in that sense it's also >> And you're you're only as secure as your ability to leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home at any time. All of us are.

All right. And so, can you go get another position and do something else with another platform? And if you've got multiple platforms, then you're not handcuffed, golden handcuffed to one of the platforms. Are you married, John?

No, he said he wanted to settle down later, right? Oh, not yet. Okay. Yeah, I'm in my mid-20s, so hopefully within the next few years. >> Yeah. I was just curious. Now, the other thing is this, I we haven't discussed the content, and I'm not going to cuz I don't want to get get into that with you, but is the content a fad?

Not necessarily.

It has ups and downs. Okay, like we we had a guy we got a friend named Jimmy.

What's Jimmy's last name? The generosity guy? Uh what? Darts. Darts. Jimmy Darts.

Jimmy's making a bazillion dollars, and he's got a generosity play on thing on YouTube that's massive. He's killing it. It's massive. Generosity is

not a fad.

He does this wonderful thing giving creates giving situations, helps people, all this stuff, and it's fabulous content. But like making slime, that was a fad 2 years ago. All the kids were doing it, and now not as much. So yeah, that's a good point. >> Whatever you're doing, it can't be something that's going to that that the actual content is not What we do is going to people are going to be in debt as long as there are people.

So, we're not going to run out of material, you know, we're not going to run out of content. And so, our stuff is what we call evergreen in the business, in content business, okay? So, you want as long as you're evergreen and you got multiple platforms, you don't don't confuse that with stability. You have stability cuz you have talent at that point. >> Mhm. It's good. >> Yeah. Good job, man. Very cool. That's a neat neat discussion. Well, and I would

always think too in the back of my mind if all this, you know, whatever went poof in 4 years. His knowledge of finance and what he if he had to go back into the workforce and do it, he could.

>> Yeah. You know what I mean? You're in your mid-20s. >> Yeah.

Finance doesn't change. >> do it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, even what you've been doing in your day job, John, um gives you a little bit of that kind of back pocket get out of free jail card in a way that you're like, "Okay, if it all does Yeah, 5 years from now, 2 + 2 still going to equal 4. >> I can plug back in. Yeah. >> Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. Dadgum. Yeah, for sure.

That's right. Yeah. >> You know, it's the same kind of thing. >> of business, my same thing. >> not but you might not be viewed as having a fresh resume or whatever, but you can get moving again on it. And so, you got a good fall back um and that knowledge of that world should give you some business insight, some business acumen into managing your new Mhm.

>> digital >> [music] >> career. Very cool.

>> How fun. Good luck with it all.

>> Amen. I hope you get I hope you do wonderful things with it. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily >> [music] >> to the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

>> [music]

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## 142. Stop Avoiding The Hard Truth About Your Finances | April 1, 2026


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:38:37 |

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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal [music] is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit [music] Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Stefan is with us in Denver. Hey, Stefan, what's up?

Hey, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve, man. How can I help?

So, I'm in kind of a a tight pickle here. I um about a few months ago, um I was looking to move and I needed to move quick um because the living situation I was in

um was not good for my kids. It The neighborhood drastically turned and became extremely dangerous. And

um so, I took out um a bridge loan to kind of try to get me into a new home.

And um I was hoping that I was going to come in at a competitive price. My price is already like $30,000 less than what I

what my home was worth. And it's almost 6 months now. And my home my old home has still hasn't

sold. Uh-huh. And I owe

um 169.5 by the end of the month. And the two options for me um are not the greatest. So, I don't know which one to do. They will either purchase a home um but I still have to cover bring 7,000

to the closing plus 2,000 carrying cost

every month it's not sold. Or I refinance again with them at 143,000

and pay 33,000 at closing.

Um and then sell it for to keep it on the market for whoever knows how long.

I've tried reaching out to investors.

Um and >> get this loan with?

With Up Equity.

Oh. Okay. And >> So this is not a standard bridge loan.

This is I'm going to This is an I'm going to screw you bridge loan. Uh-huh.

And in a very short period of time. Mhm.

Yeah. And I didn't realize that and like I said my my situation, I mean, there was ramp their crime was raising and I needed to get my boys out of there as quickly as possible. You can't use that excuse anymore because now you've stepped neck deep into stupid. What you should have done is gone and rented a property if you need to get your boys safe instead of going into this instead of set stepping up with some loan shark.

Yeah. So. Yeah. Instead you went and bought a house that was not required for you to get out of the neighborhood. You could have got out of the neighborhood and gone and rented something. So anyway, we're here now. What do we do now? Um and you're not bankable. What's the house on the market for?

Um right now I just dropped the price again. It's at 170.

And is it free and clear?

Uh no, I had >> was before the bridge loan.

Uh like uh what do you mean like free and clear? >> have a mortgage on it prior to taking the bridge loan?

Yes, I did.

Of how much?

Uh 128.

Oh boy. >> the bridge loan pay off the 128?

Yes, it does. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Thanks. >> only debt against this is the $169,000 bridge loan. You dropped the price to 170 to try to get rid of it.

Correct. Okay. All right. Ouch.

And the investors like so far the

offers that I've gotten are 115, 120, and so I'm looking at 60, you know, 50 to 60,000 dollars of basically

deficient deficient deficient pay.

>> Do you have any money?

I have about 26 in savings and checking.

What about cars?

Um I I own my car outright, but yeah, I have a car. >> What's it worth?

Um I don't know what it'd be worth now, maybe 17, 15. What do you make?

Um I make just um about 92 a year. Okay. Have you talked

to your credit union about a you know, like a $100,000 $150,000 loan and you put 26 with it

and get rid of the loan sharks and just put a credit union loan on it and take the panic out of this discussion? Mhm.

Um no, I haven't really considered that yet.

That would have been where you should have gone first before you did the loan shark deal, but um

Wow. Yeah, I mean, refinancing it without with and getting these people out of the picture on a five-year balloon note or something makes a lot more sense and then you've got some room to take the beating that apparently you're going to take on price and some room to cover the difference.

But right now, I mean, if you write a check for 7,000, you're still on the hook for $2,000 a month for another $24,000 a year. Is that what you told me? Basically, yeah. With the with the loan shark guy. So, you write a check for 7,000, you're not out.

No, I'm not.

>> [snorts] >> Okay. So, that's not really an option. That's like going from bad to worse.

So, I would rather you write a check for 26,000 and take out a hundred and forty thousand dollar loan with a credit union on a hundred and seventy thousand dollar house um or something along those lines or for that matter I would rather you let's establish you are in debt a hundred and seventy thousand with a rip off okay that's where we are today right? So now if we restructure that debt I don't care how we restructure it as long as we get rid of these guys. So if you bought a borrowed a hundred thousand from the credit union put twenty-six thousand in it and put thirty thousand on a credit card.

Fine.

Mhm.

And just because credit card you just got a series of payments they're not going to come take the house they're not you know but these guys that you signed up with woo Guido man.

Wow. Yeah. I really um I really wish I

hadn't done that and I thought I was doing what was best for my self and for the kids but >> You were you were leaving was best for your kids. I'm not making that argument but how you left oh man oh my gosh yeah.

I would have just put the house on the market left and gone and rented a rented something but that's behind us now. For those of you out there that are listening so yeah that that's um restructure this somehow and get these goobs out of your life. Get Guido out of your life. >> The lesson for the listener is when you're fearful and you do things out of fear you have to really think

every way about the decision you're making and when you do things in urgency. So those are the two things that need to make you stop and go wait a minute let me make sure I'm making the right choice and I'm not does that make sense? >> can look back on the worst deals I've done in my life and they usually followed me being desperate.

>> Yeah there you go. Desperate for me always equals stupid.

As soon as I get desperate right after that my brain quits working and I do something stupid. >> Right cuz the logic behind the The behind what he did is exactly right, but that's just a good word to the wise. >> Yeah, and and you know, and when you do something stupid and it cost you money, when I do that, I call I have to write a check for my stupidness.

I write in the four column on the check, stupid tax. Yes. You have to pay a tax

when you're stupid. And we've all done it. >> so much stupid tax in my life which qualifies me to host this show.

>> [laughter] >> Exactly. >> Because I have a PhD in DUMB.

So I know I know from whence you come.

And so if I say you've done something stupid, it's cuz I love you >> [music] >> and you're just like me. >> Your people are my people. >> you're my people. [laughter]

>> [music]

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Andrew's in Atlanta. Andrew, what's up?

Hey, how's it going, Dave? It's really nice to talk to you. You, too. How [clears throat] can we help?

Well, uh me and my wife are trying to decide if we should sell our rental property to pay off our debt. So, um in 2024, my my income was around 105,000

and um hers has stayed consistent, but uh my income dropped down to about 85,000 last year.

Um and we had this house built when we were when I was making a little bit more money and uh we have our rental property um and we're just looking to see if it's a good decision to sell it and pay the debt or if we should just go with the snowball uh effect like the snowball program. How much debt? What Yeah, how much debt?

Uh we got about $90,000.

Um it's it's actually about 87,000 if you include everything. Mhm. And um how

much of that is cars?

Uh about 65,000 of it is cars.

>> Oh wow. 65?

Yeah. So it's her I have a truck and her car. Yeah, and what does she make?

Uh she makes $48,000 a year. Okay. And so you have a $135,000 income.

Right?

Did I get that right? Yeah, I did. All right. Maybe a little bit more. May maybe maybe a maybe 140. Okay. How much of the 65 is the truck?

Uh 40 of it is the truck. Okay.

Uh what's the rental property worth?

Uh it it appraised last year at 265,000

and we owe about 160 on it. Okay, she got a hundred in equity roughly.

Not counting fees and miscellaneous. And um what's your home worth?

The one we live in right now appraised at 410. And what do you owe on it?

Uh 328.

Okay. All right, cool.

Okay.

I do you if you did not have a hundred thousand dollars in debt would you be looking to sell the rental property anyway?

No. No, I I I look at real estate as the kind of a long-term investment um something that I mean, how long have you had the rental property?

Um so it we've had it for six years. How how are you doing as landlord?

Are you good at it? >> pretty well. Yeah, I mean we've had only had two tenants. This last tenant's been there for 3 years. Um It's it's been actually been relatively pleasant. We kind of live out a little bit away from the city, so it's it's been relatively nice. When your income went down, did it affect uh the amount of your mortgage on your on your take-home pay?

Is that where this is stemming from?

Um well, I think So, it just I think cash flow just kind of died when my income went down. And then Right. >> it exposed the stupidity of these car purchases.

So, no, I wouldn't sell the rental property. I'd sell both cars. Mhm.

Yeah, cuz what's the payment on those combined? >> get two $5,000 cars that are cash, and then I'd plow my way through with a $140,000 income, plow my way through the little bit of debt that's left, and keep the rental property.

Cuz it's going up in value, and that stupid butt truck isn't.

No, no. I mean I do use I use the truck in my line of work. >> Wha Right, >> making an excuse. >> The cars are 3/4 of the debt. How great would that feel for those to be gone?

It would feel good. What What would I do in a situation that they're upside down?

I mean, what's the best route >> How much upside down are they?

Well, the truck's not upside down.

>> Okay, that's the first one to go then.

Yeah. Yeah, the cars >> You're not going to do it. $10,000.

You're not going to do it. >> think you're uncomfortable enough. I think that you had some discomfort So, here's the thing. You had a pile You had a $100,000 pile in the middle of the table, and instead of buying a rental property, you went and bought cars.

If you keep the cars, that's what happened. If you don't keep the cars, you say I bought a rental property with my 100 grand. >> [snorts] >> But, you're deciding right now between the two based on this. And um

you know, you you've already you've already dipped your toe in there twice since we've been talking to you about keeping this truck. Trying to figure out a reason to keep the truck. Trying to figure out a way if I'm you, I listen, I got a great truck. I got a Raptor R.

It's my one of my favorite cars. It's a I'm a truck guy. Loud redneck muffler. I love it, man.

It's incredible. And I'm I'm with you on owning a truck. I'm not with you on trading a truck for a rental property. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Rental properties go up in value here in the Atlanta market, for God's sakes. >> You also got to play best and worst case scenario.

Worst case scenario, he sells this truck. He hates having the eight or nine hundred dollars a month back in his pocket. And he says, you know what? I I didn't like that.

I'm going to go get a truck. Almost almost sell the rental property and then go buy a truck. >> Yeah, that's the I mean, truly you have that choice. >> in truck if you did that.

If you if you decide owning this truck is a better idea than owning the rental property, um which I'm not in agreement with. We were telling you up front. But she's right.

And if you hate having that cash

back in your life, then Yeah. >> get it back. Go back and get it. Go sell the sell the rental property and go buy you car for cash. And then you can, you know, you can undo this at any time.

>> That's true. So, yeah, I would get rid of the cars, both of them, and see how my life feels. And after 90 days, if you if you think, "Oh, Ramsey she's full of it. It's like I think I joined a cult." You know, then then sell your rental property and take the money from that and go buy some cars.

Cuz it's the same thing, dude.

It's the same thing. But all you all you at least you could test the theory. >> Mhm. That's a good point. I like that.

>> theory. >> Try this stuff for 90 days and if at the end of 90 days you hate it, you'll never you'll never go back. >> You've been on the air for 30 years.

>> Never had anybody go back. >> No one's ever called back and said, "Dave, I hate I hate you.

Because you made me debt free. Because you told me to sell my car and I don't have an $800 car payment, so I hate you.

That isn't that call I'm not gotten. Now, I've got a lot of people that hate me for a lot of re- >> That's saying something. But I mean, there's a long list of reasons to be pissed at Dave. And they're out there on the internet. If you don't just type in Dave Ramsey sucks. It goes for days. And so but that that's but that's not but that's not one of them. That's Listen, we let calls through >> my car and I am debt free and I hate

Dave Ramsey is something we have never heard once. I've never even seen I might go on the break and look on social media and see if there's any sort of hashtag about that. I guarantee it's not.

>> No, there's not. There's not. And our social media team would have already told me. I don't go look at it, but I'm afraid they do. And so Testing testing is good.

>> Yeah, and here's the same thing with pay off the house. Those of you I have $150,000 in my CD and I owe 100 on my house, should I pay off my house? How many times we taking that call? Oh, yeah.

Like 5 million times and I'm like pay off your house. If you hate it, you can go get a mortgage. And same thing you did. Just test it.

And you know what? Never. I've never had anybody write me hate mail. Dave, I paid off my house.

I hate you. I've never had that one time. Now, there's a lot of people have all these theories about this. Dave Ramsey tells people pay off their house and they're not going to be rich because of it, but then there's all these tens of thousands of millionaires that are millionaires because they paid off their house and took the mortgage payment and went and became millionaires.

And there's one sitting in front of us right now from Houston. >> Yes.

Let me tell you. Yeah. Hello.

I had a guy, he had a a pile of stocks and a bunch of debt. And you know, we would say if you have stocks, sell the stocks, use it to pay off the debt. He didn't want to do that because he'd had the stock for quite a while. He had it since he was 18 years old.

And I said, "Listen." I said, "Try it." I said, "Take a portion of the stock. Just take a portion of it and pay off a portion of the debt and see how you feel." And he said, "I never considered doing that." It was in his mind it was an all or nothing deal and because it was all or nothing in his brain he chose the nothing.

And so if you're on the fence just try it. And you want to know what? He got a hold of me later and let me know it felt so good I sold the stock and I ended up paying off the rest of the debt. Just letting you know. >> of pastors that have said try tithing

for 6 months. If after 6 months you think that tithing is to your local church is wrong, I'll give you a money back guarantee on it. None of them have ever had anybody ask for their money back. >> Wow.

>> [music]

[music]

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Christian is with us in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi Christian, how are you?

Good. How are y'all? Better than we deserve. What's up?

So I am a college student and I do have a little bit of credit card debt, but I also have a pretty big tuition payment coming up in June cuz I'm looking to transfer schools and I don't know the best way to go about this.

Saving up for the tuition?

Yes. >> How much is it? >> in in June will be 15,000. Oh boy. You

have the money? Yeah.

Yeah, I have a I have 11,000 saved up cuz I do work two jobs and I'm a full-time student and my credit card debt is about 2,400. And so I don't know if it'd be better just to throw two grand at the credit card debt and take a little loan out and student loans or save up the 15 the rest of the way and then pay that and then uh pay a little more to the credit card debt when I can after I make the payment.

Mhm. Yeah, cuz I've been paying for cash the last year for school. I paid about 1,800 a month. So why why 15,000

a semester?

Uh so it's a the online degree and so I'll start in June, make the payment and I'll be done by next June cuz I already have my associate's degree and then this will be online course to get my bachelor's in biomedical sciences.

Okay. So you're making this payment and then when's the next payment due before you finish in June? >> I I Or that's it?

>> it in online. It would just be just this one payment. That's what the advisors have told me as well. It's just the one payment. I don't know if they do payment plans or not. Okay, but I >> So you're pre-paying for the entire year? Yes, sir. Okay. And you said you have 11,000 saved, so you're just solving for the 4,000, right?

Yes, ma'am. >> And he can have the 4,000 by June. Yeah.

>> So pay cash for the tuition. No, so here's the thing. The trick to getting out of debt is to vow never to borrow again. You already have debt. So let's just let that sit there, pay minimums on that, and save up and pay cash for this tuition. And then work on the debt

beyond that. Now, if you're doing online, are you going to be working full-time at that point?

Yes, sir. So I work full-time as a certified medical assistant and also bartender on the weekends. Okay, good.

So that's where all this money's coming from. So you're going to have the money to live during this year while you finish this up and go ahead and knock out the credit card debt.

Yes, sir. Look at you. Look at you. Well done. Yeah. Yeah, I I wouldn't fool around. I'd pay cash for the tuition, not have anything lingering from that decision, and then the old decision that's still sitting there come back and attack it as quickly as you can once you've got 15,000 in the bank. Do you know why Christian we're telling you not to go into debt?

Further. >> Uh I did not know. No. Okay, let's talk about that. So because you've considered

obviously you've considered that you used it for credit cards, you're you considered it as a solution for your problem right now. The reason Dave and I are telling you, "Hey, draw a line in the sand, no more debt going forward." is because debt eats at your ability to build wealth over time.

It steals your It steals your hard-earned income and causes you not to be able to do things like invest, not to be able to do things like pay cash for emergencies, and that is a vicious cycle. That is why we're on the air is because it creates a vicious cycle in people's lives and they can't get ahead.

>> Yeah, exactly. Well done, sir. You are working your way through this. I like you. Well done. It's good to find people that work hard and get and and achieve their goals as a result. Quinn is in Philadelphia. Hi Quinn, how are you?

Hi, I'm so excited to talk to you and

Jade. Um so my question is about my employer who's telling me that I owe them about $17,000 due to an error that they made with over paying me over the past year and a half that I recently uncovered and brought to them. Oh boy.

Yeah. You figured it out.

Yeah. >> And they want you to repay them.

That's [clears throat] correct. >> And what Um yeah. What did they say?

When do they want the money by?

>> [laughter] >> So they want the money by the end of this fiscal year which is July but then it's actually October because that's when we get our bonuses.

Um so the error was I came back from maternity leave in September 2024.

Um I wanted to start work at 9:00 a.m.

instead of 8:00. I'm a physician.

And um getting there at at 8:00 was just too hard. We have four kids. Um and so it was really just a couple days a week. It went from I went from a 1.0 employee to 0.95 or like 95% effort basically. I

didn't notice the change on my my my paycheck. Back then I really wasn't paying attention to anything.

I was the typical doctor out of school um with doc items came out of fellowship thought I could you know So what is your what is your total What's your total income now, doc?

So my husband and I together make about 420.

Um I'm at like four Well, it was four

40 prior to sorry 240 prior to the the

change. Um Yeah, I didn't notice on my um my paycheck until recently. Last July we

came back from our like fourth vacation and I couldn't pay off my credit card at the end of the month and that's when I found you, read The Total Money Makeover, I'm convinced my husband, although I feel like I'm still convincing him some days, but um we're actually 2 weeks away from paying off all of our debt except our house.

Way to go. >> And going from step two to three, yeah, about $80,000. >> So the $17,000 accrued over the course of how many years?

I've got about a year and a half or since >> and a half. September of 2022.

>> $1,000 a month and your but your income's substantial. >> notice it. Yeah, so it's not it's $1,000 a month >> I'm going to get a bonus about that much. I'm just like I'm still upset about it because it

is so much money and like right at that time I'm going to be going from step um we're going to get out of step three in the summer.

And um that bonus would really help us like kickstart steps four, five, and six. Yeah. So I'm having a meeting with them next week and I'm just hoping you can give me some advice going into the meeting. I'm wondering if I should um talk to a lawyer ahead of time or just wait till afterward or if I have any like leg to stand on.

I am like highly productive. They they measure doctors like productivity based on how many patients you see and I've looked back and there were many months that I was over 100% um productive.

Yeah. So here's the thing. You you can ask an attorney. I don't think you um I don't think you have a legal case.

So I I don't think that's the lens through which I would open it. If you want to gather the information, it won't hurt anything, but ask so ask an attorney to learn that cuz but I cuz I'm not one. Um I I'm trying Okay, so if I had a highly compensated and I do I do have highly compensated folks on our team. And we made a clerical error that was

amounts to uh 5% of their income or 10% of their income, okay? Um here uh we would say, "Oops.

We screwed up." Right. Yeah. And I wouldn't >> was saying earlier. >> ask for it back, okay?

Uh, because I'd be embarrassed that we screwed up. You didn't steal the money.

You didn't um, deceive anyone. You Quite

the opposite. You're the one brought it to their attention.

>> Mhm. Hello. >> Right. Uh, and so I I I would just say, "Hey, um you know, I think it would be if I'm in the meeting, I might say something like guys, I if you look at my productivity, it's well beyond 100% which is very unusual on your staff. Um Mhm. I brought this error to your attention.

You probably would have never found it

if it wasn't for me.

You made the mistake.

You should be embarrassed. Mhm. And you

should consider just waving this.

For all of those reasons.

And uh, now you probably don't be quite that belligerent. >> to say. >> [laughter] >> But I mean, but that's the message. You know, okay. Let Let's Let's you know, I'm going to be sitting with my boss. I'm going to say, "Okay, boss. I'm one of your top guys.

I brought you the error.

And um I wondered if you would consider

being embarrassed about making the error and just wave it." You think Yeah. I Listen, I think they

should. >> Mhm. But only you Only you know that.

>> it's a morale and employee morale A high productive highly productive cuz finding another doctor to replace you when you leave over $17,000 >> [music] >> The thing is though >> And they don't know that's not going to happen.

That's It's going to cost them a lot more than that to fix the the they made here. If they hold you to this, cuz you're going to remember this forever. [music] And the first time some other low some other group comes knocking, you're going to be thinking about $17,000 instead of $800 and $17,000,

which is what the deal I mean Don't be stepping over >> [music] >> dollars picking up nickels. Yeah.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Bridget in Savannah, Georgia. Hi, Bridget. How are you?

Good. And how are you Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Yeah, I was calling because my husband and I recently paid off about $24,000

worth of credit card debt. >> Good. >> And yeah, we're very excited about it.

Um but that frees up about $600 to $700

a month for us. And we still have some

medical debt that we were of course

considering, you know, just quickly paying that off. >> Good. >> But my sister actually lives overseas

and um we haven't seen her in 2 years and I've since then had a whole pregnancy and a baby.

Um so I would really like to be able to go over there and see her and introduce, you know, her niece to her. Um she can't come over here due to visa reasons, but I didn't know if that would be a bad idea and we should just continue with, you know, going with the medical debt route. >> medical debt have you got?

About 6,000.

How quickly could you have the 6,000 paid off? >> off 24,000.

Yeah, um It's not like you're It's not like you're not going to see your sister for 7 years.

We're talking a handful of months.

Yeah, the thing with the paying off the credit card debt large majority of it was due to a good tax return. So How No,

no, no, there's no such thing as a good tax return. A tax return is when you overpay your taxes and they give you the money back with no interest. That's not a good uh How big was the tax return?

About 10,000. Good lord. What's your household income?

My husband makes roughly 4,800 and then

I do a few contractor jobs

um and roughly bring in between 1,200 to 2,000. How in the world do you end up with a $10,000 tax return on a $50,000

income?

I'm not entirely sure. My mother-in-law does taxes. She has a tax business and was able to figure it out for us.

[laughter] But I do know we had a very um high-risk

pregnancy and our son was admitted to

the children's hospital for a few days um that same year. So I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it. I don't know. Stop. Okay, stop. Number one,

you need to get your crap together and you do need to know.

Someone else taking care of your taxes is how you end up not paying the proper amount of taxes and you have no idea what's going on. I don't mind having someone prepare my taxes. Someone does my taxes. But I'm going to understand

how my tax bill works and why. And you need to understand this because if you have $10,000 too much coming out of your check every year, that's $833 a month that should be in your check this next month cuz you should change your W-4s so that you quit over-withholding out your ears.

And that will help you clean up the $6,000. No, money. You should not go to Europe until you pay your $6,000. You should roll up your sleeves and finish the job. It's not like you're not like we're saying don't see your sister for 4 years. It's 4 months.

Bridget, this is what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about when you told us you were very excited that you cleared out the existing credit card debt at $600 a month. Uh but then you very quickly let us know that that was an anomaly.

And that let me know that you are not

really ready to go on this journey and I I I want to talk about this for a second because when you decide you're going to work the baby steps, you have a moment in time where it's like I have to I'm setting I'm setting the bar for what gets past, right? I'm setting the bar for what my lifestyle must be for this to happen. And there's going to be a a of things that are going to try to compete with the priority of of paying off debt, but you have to set a clean bar. We don't do anything.

We're we're cutting our lifestyle. We're not taking trips right now. And you're so early in the process and you had a an anomaly of a win, but you're already thinking about taking trips. And you've got 6,000 to go.

I would really encourage you to lock in because if you take a trip to Europe, then something else is going to pop up and you're going to go, "Ah, let's do that." And then something else is going to pop up and before you know it, you've been kicking the can down the road 2 years. So, that's why this is so important.

Um because I do it. I can I when because you're the drama queen that lives inside of our brains, all of us have one.

Um will will will just you know, sounds like a beagle chasing a rabbit. You know, it's like, >> [laughter] >> I've heard that. Yes. >> just like your your voice octave goes up and you and you're like, "Well, I haven't seen and you all of a sudden you sound whiny." I do it I do it to myself.

I hear it in my own voice sometimes. I'm like, "You are a whiner." Go back and look at any purchase you had buyer's remorse over and replay what went over in your brain. Exactly. The little whiner came out.

>> Yes. And like, "I deserve it. I work so hard." And I tell myself, "You work so hard. You work you So many years you've paid a price." [laughter] I deserve it.

I deserve it. As soon as you do that and you're I'll I'll guarantee you my your octave always goes up one. Everybody does it. And Bridget, you're doing it.

So, don't do that. Drop [laughter] drop your Drop your octave back down and be like a grown-up and go, "You know, I still got to clean up this stinking mess I made and then I'm going to go see my sister." >> Yeah, flip the script. Let it motivate you to get there faster. >> Yeah.

But you do whatever you want to do, Bridget, but you called and asked us and we're always going to love you enough to tell you the truth.

Um it's fairly predictable what's going to happen when you call this show.

Uh we're going to love you so much that we're going to be very truthful, even brutal with you when you call here. And that that's that's because we want you to win. And in the end of the day, you'll have a better trip for waiting. >> brand is about trust because you trust

us because we love you enough to tell you the truth. >> That's right. And you know, that's what this whole thing is about. And you know,

and my And then you get to hear the other side of it sometimes, and you know, the young guy that called last week I don't I don't know if you were on I think Rachel was on the air with me, and he said, "I called you when I was 22 years old, and you said if you will do these four things exactly and don't argue with me, do them exactly, you'll be a millionaire by the time you're 30." He said, "I'm 28 6 years later, and I'm a millionaire, and I called to tell you that." I love that.

And it's like he he said, "I did exactly what you said to do. I didn't argue with you." >> Yeah. And he goes, "And I And I got there 2 years earlier than you said I would. And I want to ask you about this other thing." And it wasn't a whining thing he was asking about.

It was a It was a legitimate question, but it was he the That was the preface to his question he was calling in about, though.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

>> that, you know, live like no one else so that later you can go to Europe when you want. And it's true. He said it, and she'll have a better trip for waiting and doing it the right way. But when you start to do the things we teach the way that we teach them, no holds barred, you do you go faster than you thought you were going to go because momentum is on your side, and it's like the moving sidewalk at the airport.

And that's my favorite part of it. >> Yeah, you're walking along, and you're walking under your own power, and God looks down and says, "Oh, you're faithful with the little things." >> 100% Yes. >> faithful with the little things, I'm going to give you more to manage." And so you're walking along, and then all of a sudden you're moving like you're moving on the sidewalk faster than you're actually walking. So, you're walking, but it's also moving under you and you end up arriving at the point faster because when you're faithful with the little things 100% of the time, he gives you more to manage.

And please don't expect for him to give you more to manage when you're unfaithful with the little things, disorganized, chaotic, immature, impulsive. When you're all of those things and we're now we're not fussing at Bridget, we've moved on from Bridget. Just in case Bridget, you know, we're not we're not preaching at you, but um preaching at all of us. And >> you think, Dave, that's the secret sauce behind this because I can say when Sam and I were paying off $460,000 of debt, looking at the Ramsey plan and going, "You know what?

This is biblically based. That means I can ask God, 'Hey, help me do this.'" >> Yep. And then I can get a yes because it's based on what he wants me to be doing anyway. Yeah.

God, your word says the borrower is slave to lender and then Jesus said it's tough to serve two masters. >> Mhm. So, help me, Lord.

>> Help me get out of this. And get give me some work to do.

>> Here's the thing I was going to Give me a raise at work. Oh, it's not going to be a check in the mail. It's going [laughter] to be work. >> This is not a This is not a random Yeah, the the the the the duck is not going to fly in the window already cooked, but he will take you duck hunting and let you get a duck, you know.

And so, then you get to pluck it and you get to cook it and eat it.

>> More opportunities, more work.

>> prosper. You know what diligence is? It's excellence in the ordinary.

Excellence every day, that's diligence.

And those are who prosper. That's who gets a raise, that's who gets the promotion, that's who the competitor comes along and steals if [music] you work in a toxic environment where they don't reward diligence. Someone will look over there and go, "Well, you look at that." And they will hire you away and you'll make more money than you've ever made in your life because you were >> [music] >> diligent. Mhm.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no

whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

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Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Roman is in Atlanta. Hi,

Roman. How are you?

Hey, I'm doing okay. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I inherited $100,000 and I'm likely

going to get $60,000 more when the house sells. I paid off my $30,000 of student loans already. Good. Um I just turned 23. I graduate in May. Wow. What's your degree in, Roman? I'm applying to law school this Uh I'm doing film and I focus on like

documentary. Good for you.

So, but that's kind of like kind of led me down this path where um like

I've been uh looking at government a lot, like involved in government documentary a lot, and I'm trying to get myself in a place where I can attend law school in 2027. And I plan to work and save until then. And I'm just like I have family who's advising to put like my money in like 50K in a CD and like 10 in a Roth and like 5% liquid investments and 5% liquid investments and my bank is trying to get me to invest it with their financial advisors. But I'm just not sure to do with that money knowing that I'm going to have that big expense of law school coming up.

Well, I mean, if I can I'm I'm aiming for UGA, which would only be UGA is only $60,000 in total. It's $20,000 a year to attend that UGA, but um I mean, this is only a year away.

What if you just let it sit in the high-yield savings account until you need it?

And I'm I did have somebody tell me to do that, too. So, I just don't know. I just don't know like I can tell you why I would do that.

I would do that because knowing that this is really short-term, I wouldn't want to mess around with any risk of investing it. I'd want to keep it pretty liquid because you're going to need it.

I mean, you said this is 2027?

I'm guessing >> Uh yeah, if I if I applied now, it'd it'd be 2027. >> You've not been accepted yet.

No, I I still have to take the LSAT and I've been studying for that. Okay. Okay.

So, here here's the thing. You have two pretty big hurdles to go to UGA.

You're going to have to score well on the LSAT cuz UGA's tough to get into.

>> Mhm. And then they have to accept you.

Right. >> So, you have two big blockers [clears throat] yet before this actually happens. So, we don't know if it's going to happen or not until we cross those two mountains. So, >> And you've probably got some backup schools there, yeah, that you've considered and the prices of those?

>> there's a lot of Yeah, there's a lot of like good schools in in Atlanta, too, like John Marshall and whatnot, but that you can afford to pay cash for with this money. So, you have 130,000 cash laying around between these all of these events. Did I understand that right after you paid off your debts? Uh well, the the the 60 is going to a house

that hasn't been sold yet. >> Yeah, but it it'll sell. It'll be selling sometime. I mean, it's up for sale, right?

Mhm. Uh yeah. Okay. All right. Good.

Okay. Well, the other people are trying to be your family's trying to be helpful. Your banker's trying to be a banker.

So, asking a banker what to do with money is like asking a dog if it's hungry.

So, no. We don't They're 100% of the time they have an opinion and it's put it with me. So, no. We don't need a banker's advice on anything. No, thank you.

Um Mom and Dad mean well and yeah, a Roth IRA with 7,000 of this is not going to keep you from having the money to do to go to law school if you're filing a tax return and making at least 7,000. That's not a bad thing to do.

It's not going to make or break your life. The best investment Roman that you

can make is to attend law school and pass and then pass the bar.

That's a better investment that's a better return on the 60,000 than if you invested in mutual funds or real estate.

Okay? So the 60,000 you're investing in

the best investment I know of which is you.

All right. And so I want you to just like Jade said just protect this money and does it kind of make does it kind of feel calm to do nothing? I think doing nothing is a really cool idea. Just park it in a high yield savings super boring.

I don't have to worry about being sophisticated. I simply got the money sitting there making a few points while I get ready to go to law school.

Ta-da! Just Just and then just go have a good night's sleep.

Yeah, that that does sound nice even.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, and then just tell everybody else thank you for thank you for loving me and I've just decided what I'm going to do is concentrate on law school and when I get out of law school I'll be a lawyer and I'll make money and I got plenty of time to build wealth with that.

Mhm. Cuz 60 or 80,000 dollars is not going to make you wealthy anyway Roman.

Right. I mean they didn't leave you 6 million they left you 60.

So it's it's it's nice. I'm glad you got some but but everybody's acting like you hit the lottery or something and you did but it was like a small ticket you know.

So Yeah, just just calm calm calm.

Get to one of the things having too many choices in front of us uh it gets confusing and anxiety goes up. Is that right?

Yeah. Yeah, and so when I narrow my choices down and go decision has been made I'm I'm to do nothing on purpose.

That's my decision. I'm going to park it in high yield savings, super boring. I'm not going to lose it. It's going to be sitting there when I pass the LSAT, get a good score, and get into UGA, and then I'm going to head to Athens in the

edge of the mountains of beautiful North Georgia, and I'm going to be a lawyer.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, doing nothing doesn't mean you're not being 100% intentional. Exactly. You can intentionally do nothing. But the the power of making a decision when there's too many decisions in front of you is the stress and anxiety drops immediately. >> Yeah. Too many choices is very stressful.

And so I just go, "No." No. You know, I think that's what happens when people look at their money, and they think, "Should I be paying off my debt? Should Should I be investing?

Should I be saving for kids' college?

Should I be paying off my credit card?" Like And then when they when we just say, "Don't do this. One thing at a time. >> do this, and then do this." Their stress level goes down, and they go execute.

>> Yeah, it's a plan. >> Yeah, it's a plan. Work the plan. Work the proven plan. And so the proven plan here, Roman, is the best investment Roman can make is in Roman.

Uh and that is in training your brain

so that it is more eligible for more income. Yes. And uh that is not dropping 100 grand in an independent film that you decide to go make. That's not what I said. >> [laughter] >> Okay? You got a degree in film. No, but it's not what I said.

Yeah. >> say invest in a track record. I mean,

you know, if you want to be a lawyer, and you want to be a good lawyer, you can make a good income as a lawyer.

That's a good thing. And Lord knows we need some good lawyers, cuz there's plenty of dumb ones out there. So um phew.

All right, don't get me started. Yeah.

>> like you you almost went on a tangent.

That's okay. >> I just I just self-edited right there on the air. >> was a good job, Dave. >> Good good good move. [laughter] Yeah, you're So guys, anytime you're a college student, or you have a college student, and they say I have the money for tuition, should they invest that instead of a mutual fund? Always tuition, assuming they're studying something that is marketable.

Don't get a degree in left-handed puppetry or German polka history, you'll be a barista.

Okay, that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is get a degree that's usable in the marketplace, and the knowledge that you put in your tool belt will make you valuable in the marketplace. That is

the best return. The increased income

over the [music] remainder of your life when you properly do education

and on something that's relative in the marketplace is the best return on investment there is.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Matt in Philadelphia. Hi Matt, how are you? Good. Thanks Dave and Jade for taking my call. I got a quick question.

I'm wondering when I should hire for my business. I'm a small mechanic, work on like ATVs and motorcycles, dirt bikes, stuff like that. Um and I've been in business for about 15 years. Um kind of I feel like I've hit my max.

Like I can't seem to get out of the groove of making the same each year.

So, I don't know if I should hire or if I should be doing something else.

Are you turning away work?

No, I'm taking as much work as I can and in the past 2 years, I've actually

opened my business up to like repair for customers that you know, bring their machines and I can repair for them. I used to just buy machines that come up and resell them. And that was such a you know, so such a overhead and if they didn't sell for months, you know, it's just a lot of sitting around. Um so, I opened it up the past 2 years to work on other people's machines, charging 75 an hour. And you know, it it

trickles in and out.

You know, I always have three or four machines I'm working on for customers, but um So, if you hired someone, what would they do?

Um I would like them to do the the basic stuff like clean machines, you know, quick just go over the machine, tell me what needs to be done on it and then we can order parts or if they need to order parts. Just the the stuff that you don't Which would allow you to do more machines, but you don't have more work.

Right. Right. And so, I just I don't If you >> the past 2 years. Can you get more work?

That's what I guess I'm trying to figure out how to how to get. Yeah. Um I I opened a Facebook page and, you know, started advertising that way and just getting my my name out there, but, you know, it's just so slow. Have you uh and you're raising your prices at a at a at the correct rate over the past 15 years?

Um yes. I like I said, I've only really started work on customers' machines over the past 2 years, and I started at 55, and now I'm up to 75 an hour. Okay. I mean, really So, it's up there. You know, most most big shops are like 110 an hour, so I'm under I guess I'm under what big shops are charging, but it's just me, so. Okay.

The big shops are dealers?

Right. Right. Okay. Is there any independent non-dealer shop competing

with you?

Um there is one that's like 10 minutes from me, and his shop rate is 95, but he

turns away a lot of work.

Interesting. I wonder if he would send it to you.

I That's that That could be a question I could look into. Yeah. >> I'd just stop by and have him a cup of coffee with him and go, "I understand you're turning away work. I'll take it." Right.

So, I offer him something like a an an incentive >> Sure. I'll buy you a steak dinner every so often. >> [laughter] >> And in the meantime, I'd also be studying stupid >> 2 million dollars worth of work, I'll send you on a cruise.

There you go. But, I mean, you know, I don't know what he's I don't know what this amounts to, but yeah, but but you don't need to hire someone, and then both of you end up bored.

Right. Then you're losing money. Cuz you're paying him, but you're not making any more yourself. >> making You need to be making more money as a result of having hired the person.

And that person is either because that you're making money on the work that that person's doing or you're making money on the work that you're doing that you weren't able to do because they're doing work you used to do. Either one.

So, you know, like our guy that our CFO, our chief financial officer, does not create revenue here, but he keeps me from having to do all that so I can create revenue. And that's what you're talking about. So, you need to create but there needs to be revenue on the other side of the equation to justify hiring. And yes, right I

would work on get growing the business so that you do need the help so you can get some scale to it because today when you're a solopreneur like this, Matt, you're you're incredible.

But for 15 years you've just owned your job.

That's different than owning a business.

You know you're own your job when if you don't show up the income stops.

That's you own your job. But if you own a business, if you don't show up and the income keeps coming in.

People keep working.

So, like when I'm not here, Rachel and Jade do the show, right? And so, the revenue keeps coming in and I'm not here. So, I own a business then. But if it's just me on the radio or on the podcast and then I don't show up and there's no podcast, there's no revenue, then I just own my job.

And so, that that's different that's But the first step of business and I'll send you a copy of my latest best seller.

It's called Building a Business You Love and it's the five stages of business.

You're in the first stage of business.

You just been there a long time. 15 freaking years. So, but the first stage is the treadmill stage where we feel like we're stuck on a treadmill. We got no one to delegate to and you just run run run run run run run collapse on the couch every night.

What did you do today? I don't know, but I did a lot of it. >> [laughter] >> And I'm really tired. And so, that's treadmill stage.

And but and it's fun stage. It's an exciting stage. You do have control of your destiny. It's a nice It's a fun part of that.

And but then when you start hiring people to do work when you're not working, oh, now life starts to get good. Assuming you get the right people and you won't the first time. You'll have to fire them and get new people and but you'll finally find people that actually work and there's they're out there.

And then you'll start to grow the business. So hang on, I'll have Christian give you a copy of the book Building a Business You Love. Jason's in Toledo. Hi Jason, how are you?

Hey, good. Great to talk to you Jim and Dave. Um Hey, so I'm trying to help guide my parents on their finances and helping clean up some things. Did they ask you?

Hello? [clears throat] Did they ask you?

Uh yes, they did. How old are they? Um they are both 79. Okay. How old are you?

Uh I am 54. Okay, good. Okay, then it's

possible they'll listen. That's why I was asking. Okay, good.

>> [laughter] >> Appreciate it. >> Yeah, when you ask your questions people that don't didn't ask then sometimes, you know, don't help. But anyway, okay, so good. Cool. I see you're helping them. They're 79 years old.

Yep. There's and and should they pay off their home equity loan that they have or continue to pay that payment

it's so that they have the cash that they have in retirement. They only have about 100 grand just so that they can have that on hand for medical emergencies.

They'll probably never pay off the home equity loan before they pass but then

those, you know, that would come out of the proceeds of of their house which is >> What's the home worth?

Probably about 250. And how much is the HELOC?

Uh so there's about 50 left on it. Okay.

And that's the only debt or is there a mortgage as well?

That is the only debt. Okay. And they their only money is they have 100k.

That's correct. >> And how much do What's their income?

Uh they're they're fixed on social security about 44,000 per year. Uh and we did a very detailed budget with them came to about 40 per year in expenses. So that's close, but they think that they can maintain that long-term uh with social security, but that's that's all they got. Wow.

>> [clears throat] >> Tight. Very tight.

Um Yes. >> Yeah, I agree. I would not use the 100

and only have 50 at 80 years old to pay

off a $50,000 loan.

But I really am scared that loan is very destabilizing for the situation.

So I I I do want to come up with some thoughts on how to get rid of it anyway, but no, I would not use 50% of

the little bit that they have to clear this little bitty loan.

Um Do they have any vehicle Do they have any other assets that they could sell?

Not really of any significance, no.

There's not a lake lot.

No, unfortunately not. Okay.

Um All right. Are you the sole heir?

Uh no, I've got a couple of siblings.

Mhm.

Okay. Uh how What's the financial condition of you and your siblings?

Uh we're we're decent. I don't know that any of us are in a position to, you know, band together and and pay that off for them. Uh-huh. I would love for the each of you to throw in 17K and it to go away.

Yeah, I don't I don't think that that's probably going to be happening, unfortunately. Okay. How's their health, your parents?

Uh it's okay. They they're not like in dire health, but it's not great either.

Um Yeah. My thought behind what Dave said is you probably stand to inherit the house. So it's money that you would get back. >> Yeah, that's that's that's the reason I did it. But, if they can't come up with the cash, it doesn't matter. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like it's not like the the money's going away. It's going away for a short period of time until they pass and you sell the house.

Um Yeah, I I was sitting right where you are. If you But, if you can figure out a way to pay it off, also, I would.

I would get rid of it >> [music] >> because it's more destabilizing than your words make me think you think it is.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Well, my [music] least favorite subject.

Let me guess.

Taxes. Taxes.

Just saying the word kind of pisses me off, but yeah.

I just don't like it at all. But we're going to talk about it cuz you guys ask a lot of questions about it, especially this time of year. So, Jade, when are taxes due, someone asks, and what if I'm

late? Well, they're due on April 15th. That's the date. But you shouldn't be late because if you think you're going to be late, just file an extension.

That's what I would say. But even if you file an extension, the taxes are still due. >> got to pay them. If you don't pay them on April 15th, the penalties and interest begin.

Oh, yeah. So, filing an ex- The extension is not on payment. The extension you file is >> Paperwork. the paperwork on the actual filing of your taxes.

So, you can file an extension to file your taxes, but you should pay them anyway.

Tax deduction versus a tax credit. I

like this. So, a deduction, that's going to lower your taxable income, whereas a credit would lower the overall amount that's due. I like to think of a credit like a coupon. $30 off. Yeah. 50% off.

Yeah. And not many things are tax credits. Most things are tax deductions.

>> That's right. So, a tax deduction is $10,000 deduction means you reduce the

income that is taxable by $10,000.

And so, if you're in a 25% tax bracket, that then would save you $2,500 on your

taxes cuz you don't pay taxes on $10,000

worth of income at 25%. So, that's a tax deduction, and that's 99% of the time what we're talking about around here. Occasionally, there's something that gives you an actual tax credit, which is dollar for dollar. $10,000 tax credit

reduces your tax bill. That's great.

>> by $10,000. That is 75% better than a

deduction, [laughter] okay? And but yeah, not many of them out there, but there's a few things that you get tax credits for. Okay, this one blows people away. The number of people that don't understand this is like everybody. How do the tax brackets work? Yeah, so the tax brackets, they're a progressive system. So, there is a range of income that is taxed at a certain amount. Your entire income is not taxed at the same

amount. A higher bracket never means that you're going to pay that tax percentage on your entire income. So, if you've never done it, go through and you can Google the tax brackets for the tax

year, and you can see how it's broken down. Everyone pays the same amount of taxes on the first 25,000.

On everyone pays the same amount of taxes on the first 50,000.

Even if you make 2 million, the first 50,000 is taxed exactly the same. Mhm. And so, then as so as you go through the bracket, when you jump a bracket, it does not jump your entire income by that percentage amount. Only

the amount above that last bracket.

>> Mhm. Okay? And so, it might be that you have $5,000 above a bracket.

>> And so, it's hardly anything. So, that's so good cuz a lot of people are like, "I don't want to make more. I don't want to be in that bracket." That's crazy talk, you know? Well, there's not a 100% bracket yet. >> Right. So, of course you want to make more because you get to keep it. There's not even a There's not a I mean, I think the max is what, 30-something percent? So, you get You still get to keep 70 cents on every dollar, no matter what you make. So, go make more. Shut up.

Yeah. So, how much to set aside if you're self-employed? All right, you always want to take 25 to 30% set that aside for income taxes um and just know that you'll likely need to make pay quarterly taxes. I like to do a quarterly estimate set that aside that way Uncle Sam has his cut. Yeah, the quarterly estimate is a one-page document. How much were the revenues for my business?

How much minus the expenses for my business equals the profit for my business times tax bracket.

And you have to pay that once a quarter if you're self-employed. Yep. If you don't, you're going to get penalties and interest on that after the first year.

First year they give you a pass, which also leads people into doing stupid stuff like not paying their taxes so but you need to do your quarterly estimates and it's really not rocket surgery to figure this out. It's not that hard.

So, you just sit down and go, "Okay, the business made a hundred thousand dollars

and we spent ninety thousand dollars so our taxable income is ten thousand dollars on the profit and we're in a 25% bracket so I'm going to set aside twenty-five hundred dollars and I'm going to send that in to the uh you know, in in with my quarterly estimates and then that's has the same effect at the end of the year as those of you that have a W-2 job where you're withholding automatically out of your check. The only difference is you actually have to send the money in which pisses you off more. >> [laughter] >> And so you cuz you actually know that you're paying taxes.

When you have it withheld from your check, it's out of sight, out of mind, you don't think about it.

And so if you pull five thousand dollars out, you should set aside twelve hundred fifty bucks. And and you know, only pull thirty-seven hundred fifty into your checking account and set aside 1250 so that when you're ready to do your quarterly estimates, you're ready to do your quarterly estimates. Standard deduction versus itemizing. All right.

So, that's usually people's question, which should I do? And the answer is whatever is going to lower your taxable income more. For most of us, the standard deduction is where we're going to sit if you're just normal W-2, not much going on but the rent. I mean, if you're a married filing joint, that's $31,500 that they're deducting.

And so, that's where most people sit. Now, if you own your own business and there's a lot going on and maybe you're working with a tax professional, they might say that itemizing is the way, but most people are going to fall in that standard deduction because it's easier, often higher.

>> Yeah, exactly. And because you need, you know, that 31.5 if married filing jointly. If you don't have that much in write-offs for whatever reason, then you're better off. And here's how silly it is now. With this huge amount of standard deduction now, this 31.5 way high, it's now 91% of Americans do

standard deduction.

Now, if you do standard deduction, you are not writing off charitable giving.

You are not writing off interest on your home mortgage. That's right. Because you're taking a standard deduction and you're not itemizing. You only write those things off if you're itemizing.

And so, you say, "I'm keeping my home mortgage because I get a tax break." There you go, Dave. You lied. [laughter] You lied to yourself. You didn't get a tax break cuz 91% of you So good. did

the standard deduction. Life changes that affect taxes. >> Yeah, so like I was saying before, most of us can maybe file our own taxes if we're doing, you know, normal W-2. But if you've had a major change, maybe you got married, you had kids, you got a new job, you bought a home, maybe you entered retirement, all of those things definitely can affect your taxes.

And after major life changes just go ahead and review adjust your withholding decide if it's now good to work with a tax professional versus filing them yourself. Yeah, and that ends up you know, why your refund changes is those things is stuff like having a kid, buying a house, starting a business, some stuff like that or those are pretty big old divorces, deaths, all those things like that. Anything that's going to cause your refund to change. Now, if you're constantly getting a refund you need to remember Santa Claus does not live in Washington D.C.

>> That's not the Disney fund? >> That's not the Disney fund. Walt Disney doesn't live there either.

No one charitable lives in Washington D.C. >> [laughter] >> Everyone in Washington D.C. wants your money. They're parasites. They're a tick on the butt of America.

They're parasites. They're sucking the blood out of you. And so do not think you are getting a blessing from Washington D.C. If you got a refund, honey, it's cuz you had too much of your money taken out of your check and then they send you your money back at the end of the year with no interest on your money. That's what a blessing D.C. is.

That's what a blessing the IRS is. So you get $3,000 back. All that is is $3,000 of your freaking money because you had $250 a month too much taken out of your check. Change your W-4.

Stop having refunds.

No more refunds.

And it's so easy to do. >> Correctly calculate your withholding.

Oh, I use the IRS tables. Wait a minute, you just assumed the IRS was competent?

Well, that was a dumb thing to do. It's like [music] saying the DMV is competent. No. No, you run your taxes

out. You figure out what your withholding should be and get the proper amount withheld. >> A way to [music] do that is look at your last your last tax refund, divide it by 12, go on your W-4. There's literally a line on there that you can decide [music] what your withholding is. Change it.

Well, we wish we could get to every call around here, but we can't. If you got a money question and you want it answered the way we would answer it, go to our website at ramseysolutions.com

and use the Ask Ramsey tool. Ask Ramsey

is our free AI tool that's built and trained only on Ramsey.

So, here's the way AI works. AI is pretty simple. It's going to regurgitate, spit out only the data that you put into it.

Whatever data set you put into it is how it's going to make the answer.

So, if you're so stupid that you're Google and you put Reddit in the data set, then you're going to get stupid butt answers like Google's giving you out of Reddit. But, if you only put Ramsey, like 3 years of this show, all the transcripts into the AI tool, all of Financial Peace University, all the books that we've written, all the articles that are on our website, that we the way we believe, the way we teach you, into the tool, then guess what?

That's the only data set it's got to work from, so it will answer the question exactly better than we would answer it here on the air >> [laughter] >> because it's the culmination of all that data. And so, and it's free. And it's blowing up, y'all. People are hitting it like bing bing bing bing bing bing bing.

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Paul's in Tampa.

Hi sir. Thank you Jade and Dave. You're a blessing to our nation. Really appreciate so much. >> Thank you. I have you thank [clears throat] you. I have a question.

I see two couple principles that you've talked about are in opposition in my life.

I'm nearing retirement. I have the money to buy a boat in cash.

We live near the water.

It is going to be more than half of our

annual income in boats, motors, wheels, etc. which you say not to do. On the other hand, we have the money in cash and if we were to burn in the middle of our living room, it wouldn't be the end of our world. So, how do >> What's your net worth? What's your net worth? What's your net worth?

Uh about 4 million. And what's what Wait a minute. And So, are you counting the income that that 4 million would be creating?

Or just your little You're just counting your >> 401k and real estate. And the the boat money is separate. No, that's not what I meant. >> He's cash. He's saying to make the rule work. >> I Number one, you're right. When you're in a no income, low income portion of retirement and a huge net worth, that rule does not apply.

>> [snorts] >> The half of your income in boats and motors and or motors and wheels, that does not the rule does not apply. So, if you're worth 10 million dollars and all of your investment income is rolled back into your investments and you don't count that income in the equation and so you're you know, you're living on a $70,000 pension or something, but you're worth 10 million dollars, then we don't apply that formula, okay?

But if you take all of your net worth and use the income off of your net worth, you probably would the formula would probably work. But we don't have to do that. How much is the boat?

About 400,000. Okay, and you have $4 million. So, it's 10% of your net worth.

Correct. >> And what is your income? How old are you?

Uh 60. 60?

And you're retired?

60. 60. Oh, 60.

Okay, and what is your What is your income?

Right now, it's about 250.

Okay. Yes, I would buy that boat.

Okay. But, that's based on the ratio into your net worth and based on the fact that you're um

and again, if your net worth was 40 million and you made 250,

you know, you still could not buy the boat if we only use the 50% of your income. But, most people we're not dealing with a net worth as substantial when we apply that formula. So, um yeah, I would buy this boat, for sure. It's a sweet boat. What is it?

It is a trawler, a 40-ft trawler. Ah,

triple engines or quadruple?

Double engines. >> Double. What What horsepower? Yeah.

They're slow with the trawler. It doesn't go very fast. >> Oh, okay. All right.

And uh what brand?

It's a Grand Harbor. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Yeah, and you're you're what on the Intracoastal Waterway?

Uh we have access, yes. Okay. All right.

Wow. Yeah. Good for you.

Yeah, I mean, you're in a position to do that because Yeah. Yeah, you you that The bottom line is that the the the reason that the decision makes sense is the other rule that you used is if I burn that much money in the middle of the floor, would my life change? And the answer is no.

And and that's because your net worth so high, not because your income ratios are correct on this.

And so, that that's if we were doing it off your income, you know, we'd be going okay, $100,000 if you burn that. But but I if I'm in your shoes, I'm buying that.

I I I would buy that boat. Yeah.

That's That's what I would do. If you want a boat, I mean, that's a it's a lot of money in a boat, but um but it's a small percentage of your net worth is

tied up in and and trawlers go down in value, too.

Just like cars, just like I mean, 100% of boats go down in value. What's maintenance on a boat like that a year?

You know? No, I don't. But it's it's it's the docking fees and the insurance and the gas and or the fuel, probably maybe diesel. But um I don't know. Uh it's Something to I'm sure he's considered that.

>> pretty substantial, but it's not hundreds of thousands on that.

Cuz you don't need a crew and all that on that thing. So he's the crew. 38 ft long. I mean, it's not So uh yeah, but that's um yeah, when you get into the thing where like uh Zuckerberg's yacht pulled up the other day. Yeah, Rachel was putting that up on her Instagram, right? You know, that sucker's got like 59 people or something on it. Yeah, just the uh the the daily

rate to keep that thing running is a small city. That's right. Yeah. But that's a different world. And but again, as a percentage of his net worth Yeah.

It's nothing. >> Nothing. He's one of the wealthiest guys in the world, you know. So it's a 300-ft yacht that's probably worth I don't know, a billion or half a billion, something like that, maybe.

And >> for him, though. And yeah, but but it's again, it's he's got hundreds of billions. Yeah. And this is a half of one of them. You know, I mean, so it's it's hard to get your head around when you're like regular people, but it's if you it helps you if you just go it's um ratios. Look at the ratios.

>> What ratio is this? What percentage of this? And it keeps you from saying stup- stupid stuff. Here's what stupid people say that are envious.

And I actually have said it, but I haven't said it in 35 years. Yeah. About 35 years ago I quit being that stupid.

No one should ever

dot dot dot dot dot. That's redneck envy. Okay? That's trashy.

No one should ever have a car that nice.

There's starving children somewhere.

Like your car caused children to starve.

Would you shut up?

>> [sighs] >> Unbelievable. Of course you should get that car. Yeah. You live like no one else later you can live and give to the starving children like no one else. But this Oh, these over saved people that

think they're Jesus that are going to tell you that the the only car you can drive and still be holy is a '93 Camry.

And that's the that's the car of the evangelical. Anything [laughter] beyond that any car beyond that is not holy and

you're you're overspending and you're not a good steward. Oh, bull crap.

It's actually not a Camry. It's an Accord cuz Jesus said it. They're all in one accord. Dad joke, okay. Anyway.

Uh, all right. >> to let that slide, Dad. Just keep that one going. Just keep [laughter] on moving past that. All right. But yeah, but the seriously, I mean, the judgment of other people's decisions. Yeah. It's it's just >> please manage your life? It's like a full-time job to manage you.

It's like, you know, the the person in your mirror is a problem child. Work on that one. Instead of working on fixing everybody else's spirituality.

Geez, some of you people.

So, yeah. That that's that's the problem with stuff like this.

So, >> a very small percentage of people >> out there and I see Zuckerberg's yacht, I go not a big Facebook guy, but man, he killed it. Good for him. >> Well, I mean, how mad can you really get because here how mad can you really get?

You're probably on Medicaid somewhere.

Uh, you're probably on paid for a few days of that thing to operate. >> Yes, that's what I'm saying. >> With the Facebook ads that Ramsey buys.

So, it's probably my fault. But, yeah.

But, um, money well spent, Mark. You know, it's like you're living life large. >> [laughter] >> And so, but yeah, I mean, there's nothing wrong with it. I'm I'm Yeah. I I honestly, I've never had, you know, 300

billion. So, my mind [music] can't get my emotions can't get my head around that. But, it is throwaway money for him.

And that's what we keep talking about here. >> Yep. You know, work hard so you when you're

old, you don't have to work in McDonald's.

You're not a Walmart [music] greeter.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Kelsey uh is in Seattle,

Washington. Hi, Kelsey. How are you?

I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I have a question for you, of

course.

And I guess I'll just flat out say it. I

feel like I either was or am being

financially abused, and I can't really

tell.

I'm very confused. Um, we have a very

complex financial situation.

Um, so, where would you like me to begin?

Uh, how old are you?

I'm 37. And how long have you been married?

Seven years. Okay. And uh, what's your household income?

Um, I'm not really sure because >> what is complex about your financial situation?

So, we have a lot of debt and but I guess we do have

a lot of equity. Um, we have um, numerous businesses and we just have

money coming in and out and I'm just

living on one credit card that is constantly maxed out and I never have access to cash.

Um, Why don't you have access to cash?

Um, I'm not sure. I have asked to be put

on the account. Um, my name isn't on anything and I have been asking and he seemed willing but we

were waiting. Um, because I never got my name changed cuz we got married during COVID.

Okay. >> Uh, and so I did get my name changed finally, my last name and then um,

so he was telling me that he was waiting for that but now that's changed, you know, my name's still not on anything, none of the properties, none of the accounts. Um, so he just he tells me that the

financial situation is so complex that I

just wouldn't understand it which frustrates me because I'm very organized and I have always paid bills on time.

Um, Do you have children together?

Yes. Um, we have a blended family of

five. Um, we have

two 18-year-olds, uh, 16-year-old and then together we have a four-year-old and a five-year-old. Do you work outside the home?

Um no, and I have been

>> Yes, before we got married and I have been >> Um it depends. Um I used to make I would

just say on average I used to make like 5 or 6,000, but then there was a time where I switched jobs, so I was making significantly less.

Um What what did you do for a living?

So I was a nursing assistant. Okay, so

how does it feel when someone says you're too dumb to understand this?

Um it's really frustrating cuz I know cuz I have been homeschooling our kids as well since we got married.

Um so I mean I'm really organized. You have to stay organized to have this many kids and home school. >> Frustrated Frustrated is a word that describes when you're trying to do a task and you can't get traction on the task.

Yeah. >> know that that's the right word to describe what Dave asked.

Yeah, when when someone says you're too dumb to understand that's demeaning.

Yeah, um so I can't think in 43 years I've ever told my wife she was dumb. I think that would make me dumb. I think that would make me pretty dumb. dumb. I think he just thought it was very complex.

>> Oh, it's too complex for you to understand, darling, but I and I got [laughter] it because I'm the smart one.

He's an arrogant butt hole.

So we have about 4.3 million in equity. How

do you know?

Also, last year I really started pressing I wanted to have transparency

and clarity on our financial situation and I slowly have been asking questions and putting stuff together.

Um >> So that Let go back there. When you say slowly, is the purpose of the slowly for

your own understanding? I'm just building this mentally piece by piece, so I'm understanding it. Or is the purpose or is the purpose of the slowly I can only ask him so many things at once before he shuts me down, so I'm just going to do a little bit here, then wait 5 months and do a little bit here. Tell me the purpose of that or is it a little of both?

Um, I think it's a little bit of both.

Um, if I did sit down and ask a list of questions, I'm sure he would tell me.

Okay, did you get a pre-nup? Did you sign a pre-nup?

No, I didn't. >> Okay. You got to decide how much of this you're willing to put up with. You've already put up with way more of it than you should have, I think.

So, if it was at my house, this would be

over today.

We're going to sit down and go bye-bye.

You got 24 hours to put everything out on the table and I'm going to understand every bit of it and it's your job to make me understand it and I'm going to have access to all the accounts in the next 24 hours or I'm going to go see a divorce lawyer and I'm going to have a $2 million net worth cuz I'm taking half of this crap. >> have $2.9 million in debts and loans. I thought you said you had equities of $4 million.

Even still >> what equity is?

I guess I didn't I just figured that I would subtract the loan amount and the debt No, the amount of the value minus the loans is the equity.

But honestly, that's a little bit beside the point. The beside the point the biggest point is I'm taking half of it.

>> you're not being treated fairly. >> a divorce cuz I'm tired of you screwing me over and treating me this way. >> Well, also I think the biggest dynamic is I had come to realize that he's not keen or my needs, but

So, he has a daughter from a previous

marriage that he adopted or actually it wasn't a marriage, it was an engagement.

>> to do with this. >> And No, it is. >> No, it's not.

Cuz you got you need to know everything that's going on in the next 48 hours.

That he's been giving um That's fine.

Her large amounts of money on the side that I was discovering >> That's That's There's a lot of He's been doing a lot of a lot of crap. And you're going to find out more. >> not going to put up with anymore.

Starting today. But I did confront him about it. >> Oh, you're ridiculous. No wonder you have this problem.

You can't stay on task. I'm trying to give you a simple thing. The simple thing is the overall way you're being treated needs to stop immediately. And then you go down these different rabbit holes 14 times.

I can't even have a conversation with you. No wonder. The first question you asked is, I don't know if I'm being financially abused. >> The answer is yes.

>> that out? Yes. >> The answer is yes. And yes, you should do something about it.

And and not one off every little stupid thing you're talking about here. It's the overall thing.

Or I'm going to see a divorce attorney. Yeah, and here is Kelsey, we're on your side. We're trying to be on your side because we agree that the behavior you're talking about >> chasing its tail, girl. >> Yeah, you're worth more than that.

>> with this. You can't even have a discussion about it. I think you've been living in this toxic mess so long you're that that you're you know, you're you're clouded on everything's just circ- circular. No, it needs to be very clean

and crisp and either we get this healed

or we end this. You decide. That's what

I would do if I were in your shoes.

>> [music]

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We use a couple of terms around here

that sometimes are confusing, so let me clarify them.

We use the term financial infidelity,

which is when someone lies to their spouse and hides financial things like debt.

And so it's a breach of trust like sexual infidelity

is. But the fact that we call it financial infidelity does not really put it in the same category as sexual infidelity.

Sexual infidelity is much more traumatic.

Both are a breach of trust. One is a less traumatic breach of trust, but we use the term to describe the fact that it's a breach of trust. Another term that we use around here is financial abuse.

Probably not accurate a lot.

Okay? Abuse

is like domestic violence when someone's beating the crap out of their spouse. That's real abuse.

Okay? So, financial abuse where you

don't have access to the numbers is not

as traumatic as actual abuse.

And so, when we use the term financial abuse, it's not real abuse.

It's a It's a descriptive term to say,

you know, you're in in a situation where you're not being treated right.

That's different than abuse.

But in our culture today overall, we have taken some of these words and we've used them so flippantly that we forgot what they actually mean. And so, anytime I disagree with someone, I call them a narcissist.

Well, you need to actually understand what a narcissist is before you say that. Because just because someone hurts your feelings doesn't mean they're a narcissist.

And just because you we use the word abuse doesn't mean to to that it's descriptive of what is going on at the trauma level.

Okay, yes, it's a toxic and horrible marriage, a bad relationship. That's way different than real abuse.

So, we're guilty of participating in overstating, overdramatizing some of these things like financial infidelity or financial abuse as if it was as bad as infidelity or real abuse.

It's not.

Okay, so when you call us up and say, "Am I being financially abused?" It's way different than if you call us up and say, "My husband's hitting me."

Totally different reaction here because different parts of the way you deal with trauma in those situations is completely

different. From a psychological viewpoint, from Dr. Delony's insight and input on this, way different. So, if you

call me up and say I'm in an abusive physically abusive relationship,

I am not going to shame you.

I'm going to walk you out of that and get you some help immediately.

Because shame is one of the tools that's used by physical abusers.

But if you call me up and say, "Am I being financially abused?" And then you give me 16 different stories, I'm going to call you out on your inconsistency.

And that's not me abusing someone that's being abused. Cuz they're not actually being abused, they just don't have insight into the money and don't know what's going on with the money. So, it's not actual freaking abuse.

But it is a toxic, horrible marriage.

And yes, she does need to stand up and put an end to the bullcrap.

But that's just basic relational advice,

not someone that is actually being abused. Now, if she's actually being abused, she's going to get a different reaction from us on this show.

And so, if you don't like how I handled the last caller, kiss my butt and go listen to a different show.

Okay? Cuz that's the way we do it here.

We love people. We love people well, and we tell them the truth.

So, that's how that goes down. All right, Duke is in San Francisco. Hi Duke, what's up?

Hi Dave. Hi Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

Yes, so about 3 weeks ago, I got caught up in all the tech layoffs and I lost my job. And um I have enough cash to pay off my mortgage, which I was planning to do in November anyway, but now I'm wondering if I should just hold on to that cash.

Yes, for now. How much were you making, hon?

Um See, last year was uh 600,000.

Wow. >> Wow. What do you do in the tech world?

Um I'm a web engineer, mostly focused on digital accessibility, which is making sure software works for people with disabilities. Yeah. A big deal.

That's a big field. Okay. So, what do you have planned? >> Well, what what's what's the outlook for the new position?

Well, uh it's kind of a rough job market for what I do right now, so I don't know how long it would take, but I'm also contemplating on stepping out on faith and starting my own business. Mhm. Doing what?

Um, same work, consulting.

Mhm. I wouldn't step out on faith, I'd step out on facts.

Um Okay. But, um I mean, you know how to do what you're doing. Do you think there's a market for it that you could build up enough consulting gigs to make what anywhere near what you used to make?

Uh it'll probably take me a while to get up to that amount, but um yeah, there's there's more than enough work, I think.

Okay. And do you plan to live in San Francisco?

Um I don't think I'll be able to stay here too much longer. Okay. Then why would you pay off the house? Is the house house up for sale?

Well, that's certainly an option that I hadn't thought about. >> If you're leaving, you don't need to keep it.

Yeah.

And then that changes the whole formula, right? Because you may be buying a property that's twice the size and half the price in a different market.

More affordable market. >> Yeah.

You're in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world. You know that, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And so, if you're going to I I don't know where is best for you to operate this consulting firm from. I was going to say, what's your timeline for making that choice on whether or not you're going to step out and do your own thing versus continue to search the job market?

I'd give myself probably about 2 months Okay. before I need to start looking again. Yeah. Uh you need to start looking now.

What are you going to do? Sit on your butt until then? What do you mean?

Uh no, I I I needed to take a break.

Okay. So, how much money are you sitting on? right now? >> a break. They just gave you one, but while you're on break, look for a job, honey. I mean, for real. Anyway, that's what I would do. Yeah, set yourself a timeline and what I would do is nothing with the money to answer your question.

And and say, "Okay, for the next 2 months I'm going to look for a job. If I don't land something, I'm going to launch the consulting firm and we're going to move from San Francisco to fill in the blank of the name of the city, and that means the house goes up for sale that day.

Uh but in the meantime, yeah, you're you're you might land something there and stay in Silicon Valley, right? Yeah, you could do that or I My whole thing, if I were in your shoes, I would set a timeline.

Um that's what I would do. It sounds like you have plenty of money laying around to kind of um take a little bit of time on this, but I wouldn't get reckless.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Good good good question, dude. Um I'm sorry you lost the great job. I'm really glad that you had a great job like that and so you know what it feels like to make 600 a year. That's pretty incredible. And I'm really glad that you'll know what that feels like again someday either as owning your own thing or staying there and um just working for a different shop now and so forth. But yeah, wow. Wow.

And um It's pretty incredible that uh Well, that that's that's awesome. So, yeah, you you got The good news is you got options because you've done a good job of putting things in place to do that. >> like a single guy, too. He didn't sound like there was anybody else's The the the words he was using didn't sound like yeah, so Um >> [snorts] >> but yeah, he's been working all time.

Exactly. [laughter] He sounds like he's working day and night. >> 24/7. Yeah.

And then all of a sudden it came to a screeching halt.

>> Wow. Yeah. So, that that's the thing.

Yeah. So, when you're in the middle of a storm, yeah, wait till the storm passes to do permanent planning. I think so, yeah.

>> In the middle of the storm, you do temporary things, which is like he said, hold on to the cash. We're not going to pay off the house cuz we may not be staying in it. >> to happen. That's right.

>> staying in the house. Might might be staying in it. Once the decision is made that we're staying here, then I would pay it off. Yes, I would, too.

Quickly. Yeah.

Okay, either one of those is fine. Yeah.

Very cool thing to pay off the house in San Francisco.

>> [music]

>> You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

>> [music]

>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi. Defaulted private [music] student loans don't define you, but dealing with them does.

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That's the letter Y R E F Y {dot} com {slash} Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Alex in Florida. They say my recurring bills are paid for on my credit card, which I also use to buy things throughout the month. I pay the balance in full before the date is due.

I'm retired, in my 50s, with a net worth of 1 million, and I have no debt. I drive a 15-year-old Nissan. My question is, if my goal is simplicity and convenience, what's wrong with using my credit card for monthly spending and recurring bills? The balance usually runs between 1,500 and 2,000. Nothing crazy, because I live very frugally.

Okay, so if I look at this question, my thought is you're probably doing it for the points. That's my You didn't say why, other than simplicity, but there's got to be something linked to that. And so I would say, if if there's a points argument here, I mean, if you just did the math, it's really minuscule. I mean, we're talking about $1,500 per month if you look at points.

Maybe that's 300 bucks a year.

You know, 300 $30 per month. So there's

really no financial gain there. Is That would be my first thought towards that, but I think what's really going on

is and I'm saying this out of love, >> [laughter] >> but they won. Like, they got you,

because that whole industry, what they want to do is move your mindset from being independent to dependent. And they

got you because you've decided that in

your mind that equals getting ahead.

My goal is simplicity and convenience when in reality I use a debit card for my recurring and I use debit card for purchases and that is more convenient and more simple.

That's why Yeah. >> Cuz I don't have to pay a bill at the end of the month. Yeah, if you think that equals simplicity, they got you.

Even if you're paying it off in the at the end of the month and not in debt, it's you know, if you're paying it off in full, you're still it's still not the simplest way. Well, and >> way is a debit card. >> Yeah, we The studies show that if you use a credit card, you will over time

spend 10% 30% in some cases, depending on what it is that you're purchasing, up to 100% more using a credit card. Things like fast food, things like entertainment, you are up in that high percentage of how much

more you'll spend. >> Yeah, and I I don't think this guy's going to be in that super high percentage cuz he's a frugal guy.

>> he's like 10 to 15%.

>> you're just doing your normal purchases, you're going to spend a little more. But the big thing is you're paying it off at the end of the month anyway. So, what's the difference in a debit card? Oh, one extra step. It's not as simple.

>> That's why I said it's a mindset thing.

In his mind >> got you is right. They they talked you into believing this was smart somehow.

And then you defend it with all of your numbers, but you're you're Yeah, I don't think I'm going to talk you out of I don't think I'll be able to talk you out of it cuz I think they got you. Yeah, I think I think they got you. But yeah, your argument is invalid.

It is not simpler or more convenient [laughter] than using a debit card. >> Nothing is easier than I get my paycheck and I take my paycheck to pay for my things. Yeah, well, I use my debit card.

I mean, like a lot of my utilities on stuff on odds and ends like personal stuff like utilities automatically hit the debit card or some of the odds and ends and I don't have to do anything.

Yeah. >> He hits his credit card and he has to pay the bill off at the end of the month. >> Yeah. I don't have to I don't have that extra step.

>> Mhm. So, it's not simpler or more convenient. >> And and I I I I want to say this because I think that this is a very subtle thing that's worth saying. This guy, do I think this guy's going to end up in debt?

No. Is he going to get end up on the side of the road? No. I'm not being a fatalist in any way.

He's going to go about his life. He's going to be fine. He's going to retire. No no problem.

>> Mhm. The borrower is slave to the lender. So, at the end of the day, I want to be able to have as much freedom and autonomy in my life to know, "Hey, I I actually went out in the world. I made a living. I didn't have to depend on a system of debt to keep me afloat or make me feel like I was something." Mhm.

That's all it is. And but that's a big thing. Agreed. Margie's in Dallas. Hey, Margie, what's up?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure.

How can we help? >> [clears throat] >> I've had a lifetime of bad decisions and have stuck myself into a hole in debt.

Mhm. And um I'm debating whether to file

bankruptcy, to try to settle some things out of pocket myself when my house sells. I'm going through a divorce and I know I'm getting 50% equity. Wow. Um and I just don't want to continue making bad choices. So, I just kind of need some guidance as to what route I should take and where I should prioritize. How long you married?

Uh 30 years. Oh, baby. That's tough.

Wow.

I'm sorry. Uh a lot going on with you.

Um a lot of pain.

Uh how much of debt do you have, Margie?

Um total for myself, not include My

husband and I have always kept our finances separate. >> Mhm. So, just um my debt including the

mortgage cuz my name is on the mortgage.

>> debt not counting the mortgage. What do you have? Okay. Um well, it's 609 total

minus 343 for the mortgage, so whatever that leaves. I've got 108 in unsecured credit cards.

I have 137,000 in student loans.

And I know bankruptcy won't erase the student loans, so I'm stuck with that and and I'm good with that. [clears throat] I got my I got I got that. I'm going to pay that. I'm sorry.

Yeah, that's that's a lot. And what do you make? Um 87,000.

>> Mhm. Okay. And how much equity will you get from the sale of the home?

Um so the house would probably sell for

440 to 480. We owe 343, and so my half

I'm thinking after closing would probably be about 50K.

Okay.

Um well, bankruptcy's not going to work for you

because when you go to file, there's two types of consumer bankruptcy. There's Chapter 7 and Chapter 13.

Chapter 7 is the clean slate where the student loans are

not bankruptable, but the credit cards get zero.

Um and in order to file a Chapter 7, you

have to have passed what they call a means test, meaning they look at your income and any assets that you have. And

when they see that you have $50,000 and make $87,000 a year, you're not going to pass the means test, so you're going to be forced into a payment plan in Chapter

13, which is 5 years, 60 months of

paying payments on the credit cards. You can put the student loans in there, too, but they get paid in full. The credit cards can be paid all or portion of in a Chapter 13. In your case, they're going to get most of it anyway. So, are you delinquent on the 108 on credit cards?

Yeah, I stopped payments in January.

Um Okay. That was part of, you know, of being able to afford an attorney. Yeah.

Um Yeah. for the divorce.

>> Okay. And so honestly my my thought process where I where I wanted to do is wait for the sale of the house and then just start calling creditors and saying like hey >> I think you can I think you can probably settle the credit cards for the 50.

Okay. >> Or something like that, okay? If you if you if they went seriously delinquent, they're not seriously delinquent yet. Um but and it [clears throat] it'll be a long it'll be a you know, a year and a half while your heart is broken over a 30-year marriage ending and you're fresh

trying to get a fresh start. You're going to have a lot of work to do here.

Um I've got another idea. The the guardian litigation people that we work with this

is what they do. They negotiate with them. Um when you're when you're in default um

and uh they're very very good at it. I just had lunch with the CEO the other day and was listening to their whole process. Um and I think they can take

care of you and we'll help them do that because you are in a pinch.

All right, and so we're going to we'll hook you up. Christian is going to get in touch with them and hand hold your hand and walk you right into them and I think they can walk you through this because you're not going to qualify for a chapter 7. It's going to put you into a 13 and so some kind of a payment plan

or settlement process is going to be better for you outside of bankruptcy.

It's going to be more efficient. And it doesn't require all of your emotions

to deal with the anger and the crap that the collectors are going to throw at you if you do it yourself and if I'm in your shoes, I don't need that right now cuz your heart's already breaking.

So hang on and we'll help you with this, hon.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You

work way too hard to be broke and feel

broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the EveryDollar budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth.

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You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture today, Proverbs 21:21, "Whoever pursues righteousness and kindness finds life, prosperity, and honor." Warren Buffett, "You only have to do a very few things right in your life so long as you don't do too many things wrong." Guys, Ramsey is taking over an entire cruise ship. That's right, one of the top lines, Holland America, fancy pantsy

cruise line, not the cheap ones. This 20 This is a 2,500 people coming together

for the ultimate debt-free celebration.

If you're on baby step four and beyond, you're out of debt except the house and you're working on getting a you're working on getting your emergency I mean your past your emergency fund, working on getting your retirement built, getting the house paid off, all that or even beyond anywhere, this is for you.

We're not asking you to spend money while you're on baby step two and go on vacation with us, but we but let me tell you we'd love to have you on this. All the Ramsey personalities are going to be on there for seven days including me. My wife Sharon will be with us the entire time. We're going to have new wealth-building teachings. We're going to join the world's largest debt-free scream. We're going to watch live episodes of your favorite Ramsey shows be taped right there and so much more.

So, you get all kinds of opportunities to deal with every one of us. We're going to be all over the place. We did this last year. It's going to be one one year from right now. Be in March of 2027.

It is well it's not sold out, but it's getting close already. So, if you want to go click the link in the show notes or go to ramsolutions.com/events to book your cabin. Laurie is with us in

Salt Lake City. Hey, Laurie, what's up?

Not much, Steve. I I'm so excited.

Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? >> Um So, here's my question. I think we went to stupid university and made a mistake and I'm wondering what you would do in our case. Wow. What happened?

>> about a year ago and when we bought it,

we understood it was seller financed.

But the day we went to sign the papers, like we didn't hire a lawyer in advance.

That was probably our biggest mistake.

When we got there, it turned out it was more of like a seller kickback. Like they didn't give it to us with their money. They are using the loan they previously have.

I did not realize that was like weird.

So, would you be concerned if you were me? Like would you go refinance >> I don't understand. What do you mean they're using the loan they previously had? What do you mean? They didn't pay off the home with the money that we gave

them to Okay, so we paid like a $1 million home. We paid 750, but still owed that extra like 300-ish.

And they just kept the loan they previously had. So, they're not financing it out of their money. What is What is the balance on that loan?

So, the balance on their loan is 320, and we owe them 380. So, we borrowed $60,000 from them.

And then the like overall balance is 320 on the house. Has the house been put into your name?

Yeah, we have the title. I So, that's where I I thought we were all above board, but then I looked at it today online and it said it was a seller take-back loan, and I was like I've never even heard of that before today. I didn't know that was a thing. >> some some So, I made up on TikTok. I've been doing real estate 40 years. I've never heard that phrase.

So, um seller take-back. What this is is an illegal loan, though, because the when the mortgage company finds out

and they will, when they discover, for instance, that the homeowner's insurance that has to be reported to the mortgage company is not in the seller's name, it's in your name.

Well, and it's in their name still. So, if anything goes wrong >> be? The deed is in your Did you put the house in your name or not? Yeah, the house is in our name. >> Then they cannot have insurance on your house. I can't buy insurance on your house. It's not possible.

Great. So, would you refinance like now?

Yes. All right. Well, okay. Okay. Cuz here's what's going to happen. If that is a standard mortgage that's laying on the house, in paragraph 17 on that mortgage, it has what's called a due on sale clause.

Mhm. Due on sale means if that seller sells the house that mortgage becomes due in full.

And that seller has sold the house.

And when they discover it, they're going to call that loan.

And they're going to demand that seller give them $320,000 in 30 days. And if

they don't, they're going to foreclose on the house that you thought was yours.

Right. But it's not got but you have recorded a warranty deed into your name. Is that right? At the courthouse. >> Yes. Yes, and that's where I thought we were legal cuz how would we know that it was >> You are legal. You're just vulnerable because the seller is either a shyster or a or both.

Okay? [laughter] >> Okay. Because they don't understand that you cannot keep a loan in place with a

due on sale clause in it.

And all all current modern mortgages

have a due on sale clause in them. If you got an FHA loan from 1972,

it does not have a due on sale clause on it. But they don't exist anymore cuz they've all been paid off.

That was 50 years ago.

So, the but but you know, so back in the day when I first started in real estate in the late '70s and early '80s, we had all kinds of FHA's laying around that you could assume without a due on sale. But those are have been gone for 50 freaking years, okay? So, anyway, that that this thing if you pulled up their mortgage deed,

okay, the the the trust deed in most states it would be. You can if it's a Fannie Mae, a standard conventional loan, you just flip it over do you see paragraph 17? It will say due on sale.

If the title is transferred, the the the it becomes a balloon note and they call the it's in default, they call the whole loan and the seller does not have the ability to pay that loan off.

And so, they're going to get foreclosed on and because the lien is still on your

property, you're going to end up losing the property.

Uh So, you need to get this refinanced and get these shysters or morons or whatever they are out of your life as fast as you can. And you need a standard $380,000 mortgage and pay them off as or $400,000 mortgage or whatever you got to go get to get them paid off as fast as you possibly can. How long have you had the property in your name?

A year. Good, cuz it's going to take 12 months before they'll look at appraised

appraisal versus acquisition.

Okay? And so now they can look at appraisal. And I assume the house is worth more than when you bought it.

Probably, yeah. >> Yeah. So, uh you guys have any money? You obviously put down everything you had, right? We did, but like over this last year we've saved up a hundred grand. So, I was just thinking we'd put some of that towards >> would yeah. And if you can get a if you can just get like your credit union to give you $300,000 mortgage.

Oh. That's correct. You know, just easy, just something quick, right? Or call Churchill Mortgage. And they can help you walk through it. But yeah, I would get this out of these people's names as fast as you possibly can. And for God's sake, get the homeowner's insurance in your name.

You have $700,000 of equity. If this thing burns down, that's going to go to them.

Oh, wow. That would be awful. Yeah.

Yeah, cuz the homeowner's insurance is not in your name. And by the way, you can't have insur- You insurance law is basically you have to have an insurable interest. I do not have an interest in Jade's house, legally. So, I can't go be buying insurance on somebody else's house. That's the That's got to be the illegal part of that. >> on your house. This house is in your name. They They Their insurance policy's

not valid. >> Yeah. So, you're going to They're not going to get the money. You're going to end up with nothing. Nobody's going to get nothing. Cuz the insurance company's going to go, uh you didn't own the house. Yeah. Is that a illegal? Like if

that can't if something like that happened.

>> the policy.

So the light the the insurance company's going to go, uh, no. I'm not We're not writing a check for a million dollars on a property that uh to the to the people that I are not our client and our client doesn't own the property. Right. Right.

Right. >> So the so the so that it's not worth the paper it's written on. >> Oh, that's a mess. >> It's useful useless.

So there's so much wrong with trying to do what is effectively uh uh called a wraparound mortgage where they wrapped around the old mortgage and they carried back 60 and they wrapped around the 320 for a total of 380.

mortgage where there's a due-on-sale clause and I promise you there's a due-on-sale clause on that. I promise you there is. So, um yeah, that that's

that's what you get into. Ouch. Scary scary scary scary. Yes, get refinanced as soon as possible.

And get go and go buy it insurance on your property today. Go buy homeowner's insurance today.

Forget that they've got it. And no, we're not paying them for it cuz >> terrible. >> paying their policy is ridiculous.

But that's why they didn't want to change the policy cuz when you change the policy names out, it tells [music] the mortgage company that we've sold the house and it activates the due-on-sale clause. >> That does sound a little shifty.

Well, it's just dumb. It's some somebody doing real estate on TikTok. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and [music] that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 143. Stop Being Normal, Attack Your Debt Now! | August 5, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:13:39 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love,

and create actual amazing relationships.

Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of the brand new hit on the Ramsey Network.

It's called Front Row Seat. He's my co-host today. Open Phones at8255225.

Jack's in St. Louis. Hey Jack, how are you? >> I'm great. How are you guys doing?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up in your world, >> Dave? I'm broke. I'm borrowing money from family to live. My wife and I both work for a school district. We work all the hours they'll work us. Every every chance they get to do some extra jobs, we do it. Uh I'm qualify for welfare

now. I've got two adopted sons at home.

We've adopted a lot of children through the years. Never made much money. And I've got a house that I owe about.

>> 120. I'm sorry. Go. I won't interrupt you. 120. And I'm sorry. What's it worth? What's it worth? >> It's worth about 189. Okay, >> here's the problem. Every house that's for sale in our area is cost more than what I owe on on the house I've got now.

So, I could sell the house and break out with my equity and start over, but then I'm going to be right back in the position I'm in again. So, I feel like I'm in a corner I can't get out of.

>> Okay. One thing I drove by there that I wanted to ask about, and I almost interrupt you. I apologize. Was the um No problem. You're both working full-time jobs and somehow you still qualify for welfare >> for uh the food program. Yes.

>> What's your combined income?

>> It's uh a little less than 35.

>> And you work for the school system?

>> Yeah. >> Wait a minute. Wait a minute. That that's not even $7 an hour. You're not working 40 hours. Not two people.

>> Well, she Well, here here's the catcher.

She is a substitute teacher, but she works every time they call her.

>> Yeah, but that's not full-time. >> We don't know what else to do. >> Well, that's not a full-time job. That's sporadic at best.

>> Well, my my contract is for a little bit less than 20 and then she makes the rest. >> What do you do to make $20,000 for the school system? >> I'm in transportation and I drive five routes a day. Okay.

>> And uh how long have you been doing that, hun? >> This will be my sixth year. Okay. All right. What did you do before that?

>> I pastored churches >> and ran a bank. I actually ran a bank for eight years.

>> This is This is a This is a world I'm not used to. I don't know what to do.

>> Mhm. >> I don't know what to do. >> Okay. >> Well, I I do. Your job sucks. You need a different job.

>> You make no money, sir. That's the problem. You guys are You are living at the poverty level. I mean, with two kids and $35,000 because she's not working full-time and uh and when you work, you're not getting paid anything.

And so, dude, you can make more than you make working at Target 40 hours a week putting boxes on shelves.

Way more than you make.

>> Yeah. >> And so, your job just sucks. We've got to reset your career sites. Uh you do.

And and we'll be happy to help you with that. But you have an income problem, not an outgo problem. And your house, and you're you're correct. I agree with your assessment. Your house sale will not fix this situation cuz you you >> It's going to cost me $17,000 to sell it time. I pay commission.

>> Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. It doesn't fix the problem because you have a an income that is not sustainable. You

cannot live on it.

>> Yeah. >> And so we you have to reset your career.

>> Yeah. I I I don't want to put you on the spot, but I I feel like I need to ask you this. If you were if you were sitting across from somebody who used to go to the church you pastored and they told you what you just told us, what would your advice to that person be?

>> Well, that's a good question. I uh

if you know if it's >> don't don't listen you've already answered >> insanity is is you know as they say

insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results >> correct >> so my my advice would probably be what you just told me. >> Yeah. So you are I think that there's

been a series of things that have happened that have led you to this. We don't need to break all those things down, but if I could just encourage you to do what you believe, to do what you

would tell someone else, and your wife needs to go get a real job today. I

don't care if she's being a cashier at the local supermarket, but we're going to literally go. Where are the open jobs that no teenager, most people don't want to go, but they're already going to make more money than what you guys are making. And you're going to have to get to the point where you say, "I can do more things. If I can turn a wrench, if I'm handy, I'm going to start working on some construction crews because at this point, you guys have been making so little money.

You have gotten to the point where you believe that's all you're worth." >> Yeah. And you're not. That's not true. >> This is garbage.

Get after it, man. Let's change our day.

Let's change our week. Let's change our month >> by going and getting to work.

>> If you're working 40 hours, you're making $9.

>> And Target and Target's paying 20.

>> Great. >> I do have a a separate issue here. I've got two the two boys I adopted are autistic. >> And my wife has to stay with them some.

At least some. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> She's doing what she's doing as a substitute has allowed us to to be able

to take care of them. You know >> how what happens when she's substituting and you're driving?

>> Well, I I get a few breaks during the

day, but that's about it. We we we we take we tag team. >> How How old are the boys?

>> Uh 15 and 11.

>> Are they going to require care of their whole life? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, you don't have a choice. You have to find a workaround.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's I'm telling you, I'm in a predicament. I don't know what to do. >> No, you do know what to do. You've got to get a different job, dude. It's very simple. It's a math problem. You are not

making any money and you have decided

that this is the only possible thing for you. And that's so fatalistic and incorrect. So, I don't care what you do.

I don't care if you start a business. I don't care if you cut grass.

>> Dude, if she starts cleaning toilets, she can make four times what she's making now being somebody's maid.

>> Yeah. >> People are paying $25 to $50 an hour to be for maids right now. and take the boys with her, you know, or she gets a customer service job where she's on the phone just doing a basic script. She could be making 12 $15 an hour easy from

home. >> But we have to get in the uh generating income mode rather than we are trapped

mode. You are not trapped.

>> You have the worst possible jobs, both

of you, for this situation. And so you've got to start going, "What can I do to make some money cuz I need and

that's not greed. That's survival." Because your house is not unreasonable.

Your life is not unreasonable. You're not a bunch of overspenders. You're not out of control. You just are broke. You just don't make any money, sir.

>> Yeah. I There's a spirit over him.

There's a spirit over you.

>> Uh, Jack, and you know it.

>> That's just the I'm stuck spirit. Yeah, I'm trapped. There's nothing I can do. There's nothing I can do. You said it like four times >> and it it's just not true.

>> We are talking to a guy who's done things and can do things and you've got

to do something else in your situation.

You cannot survive. And so, yeah, you both of you are looking for jobs today and and you may be looking for jobs and upgrading jobs and jumping in and out of jobs for the next year to get your income up 20, $30, $40 an hour. And

let's get after it. Go get you a lawn mower, man. Get you a pressure washer.

Do something. You can make a lot more money than you're making right now.

[Music]

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[Music]

Steve's in Lynchberg, Virginia. Hi, Steve. How are you?

>> Good, guys. How are youall doing today? >> Better than we deserve, sir. What's up?

>> Uh trying to help my parents that have gotten into a pretty bad uh position. Uh their house was foreclosed on. Uh they

did a loan modification to get it out of foreclosure. So the loan's current. Uh they currently have uh about $13,000 and

judgments against the house based on two credit card debts and a a medical debt

and a heliloc and a HUD loan. And I

don't know, you know, what advice to give them to help them out but not enable them. I don't know if bankruptcy would affect the HUD or HELOC. So just trying to look for different answers.

The foreclosure must not have occurred.

There's not a plan with a traditional HUD mortgage where you actually get foreclosed on and then they give you the house back on a modification. They must have done the modification right before the actual foreclosure sale occurred while the house was in foreclosure. Does that sound right? >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. The foreclosure was in process.

But once they drop the hammer at the actual auction at the courthouse steps, there's no going back. That's my point.

Okay. So that's anyway. So they've got a loan modification, a helock, and a bunch of debt. Why are they not able to pay their bills?

>> Uh they're they just haven't made smart decisions with their money and I think they were, you know, depending on social

security and other stuff and realize that uh retirement a lot quicker than what they >> are both 65.

>> Okay. Do they both work?

Uh my mom has never worked due to um uh

we'll say medical issues. Uh my dad has worked and he still works some jobs. Uh he's a contractor so he does uh like remodels and stuff but uh he's not able to do as much as he used to from doing construction for 40 years.

>> He's not physically able.

>> He's not physically able to do a full-time position. And then I try to talk him into >> What's wrong with what's wrong with him physically?

>> Cuz I I'm 65 and I work full-time and I could work full-time swinging a hammer if I had to.

>> Yes, sir. He's He's just uh he's broken his ankle a couple times and when he was in the military, he broke his back falling off a tank. Um so it's just something that he can't, you know, carry lumber and stuff up and >> Well, he never has been able to.

>> Okay. >> He didn't break it, he didn't break his back six months ago. Oh, he broke it 20 years ago, >> right? >> So, what'd he do for the last 20 years for carrying lumber?

>> Uh, he's he's been able to do it. I guess just the age and arthritis is catching up to him. >> Well, but here's the thing, though. He's an actual contractor.

So, if he were to go out and beat the bushes for some restoration projects, renovation projects, he can put a crew together of young guys. He knows how to do it. And a contractor doesn't have to to be swinging the hammer if he goes >> or lifting the lumber. He goes and gets good guys, young guys that want to learn the trade.

My point is he could make really good money as an actual The reason we bring this up is you can't live on social security with what you're talking about, >> right? >> You got mortgage, you got HOA, you got leans from credit cards, all because they were trying to live on money that's not enough to cover their bills, >> right? >> It's an income problem.

>> You're you're absolutely correct. I just don't know if there's I I've heard you say so many times, you know, if you talk to creditors, >> you know, they'll usually settle pennies on the dollar with >> they will, but he's going to be right back there again, >> right? >> Well, we've if we clean them up, I don't want them coming back.

>> I don't want the same same mathematical problem in the household recurring.

And so, we've got to fix. Now if we fix the overall situation to where in other

words the income is enough to cover the household expenses through whatever reason we either reduce the expenses that far or we increase the income.

Either one of those if we if we do either one of those then we've got a sustainable situation. Then if you went in and use some of your money to settle some of the old debts and get them cleaned off to where they've got a clean slate to start going forward. That would be not that would not be enabling and that would be a good move on your part if you've got that extra money. But where you just pay off that stuff and they keep doing the same thing that got them there in the first place, they're going to be right back again.

Follow me, >> right? And that's kind of where I'm selfishly like, well, maybe if I get them to file bankruptcy, they'll clear this up and they won't be able to go into further debt because they're >> Oh, no.

>> Oh, you can definitely get into debt after bankruptcy. Credit card company will send you a pre-approved credit card 20 minutes after you file.

>> Okay. Well, will the well helocks and HUD loans are those negotiable down? Do you have you have >> No, they will not negotiate because they have a house securing them, >> right? >> So, how much do they owe how much they owe on the first mortgage?

>> Uh 121,000.

>> What about the Hilo?

>> Uh HELOC and HUD are both 30,000.

>> Okay. And what's the house worth?

>> 350ish. >> Okay. So, here's an idea.

Get them on a budget they can live on with a paid for house. Sell the house

and buy a $200,000 condo. Paid for, no

debt. >> Right >> now they got no house payment.

>> And if you settle the credit cards and get rid of them or you could actually pay them off out of the sale proceeds.

You don't even need to use your money and then buy a house with the money that's left over in cash. A condo with a house money that's left over in cash.

And if that sets them up on a budget that they can live on the amount that they've got coming in without either one of them working much, then fine. Um, but

I still think your dad ought to go do something, >> right? Um, I I agree. What about the

idea that I've been floating now is buying the house from them?

>> No. Absolutely not.

>> No, cuz we're not addressing the core issue. The core issue is they can't live

on it.

I mean, if you just gave them a free house. Yeah, I guess if you want to do that. I mean, do you have an extra $350,000 laying around?

>> I do. >> You do? What's your net worth?

>> I do. Uh, close to 2 million.

>> Okay. All right. >> You buried the lead on us.

>> Yeah. That that's information that would have changed the whole discussion from the start. But if you want to do that, then you own the house. But I still want them to create a sustainable life. And so I want them to go through Financial Peace University. I want them living on a budget. And I don't want them to I want them to promise to never borrow another dime the rest of their entire lives.

>> Right. And I I we've talked about it. I think without the house payment, you

know, their their social security income and the side jobs they could they could easily get by on. Um >> they they mathematically could, but they've chosen not to do that in the past.

They've chosen to let their house go all the way into foreclosure. They've chosen to not pay credit cards to the point they now have a judgment lean on their house. And so they'll choose that again

unless we have a very clear understanding and I would write it down not as a legal agreement but as a clarity agreement >> and my concern is if you buy the house and I'm I'm I'm wondering here are you planning to let them live there rent free? >> Yeah. >> I just wanted to clarify that. Is that the plan?

>> That that's the plan. And I just feel like if I try charging rent and they got behind it just I get that. But here's here's the thing I'm going to say. I don't even like this because let's say you do that and they live rent free but they they don't uh stick to a budget.

They get now the resentment is so high and then you got this stupid house. I'd make them sell the house. I wouldn't buy this house if I were you. Whether you have the money or not. >> I I I might buy it. I might disagree with Ken, but under the same under the conditions that address his concern.

Yeah. and that is me and mom and dad have a very clear understanding we're going to have zero debt when this transaction is complete and you are promising to a live on a written budget that the two of you run every month and I'll help you with it. I'll coach you along and b uh you promise to never

borrow money again under any circumstances ever, >> right? >> The rest of your breathing freaking life. >> Okay? And if you do those, if they stick to those two things, they can sustain on social security with no house payment.

And you're paying, you own the house.

House is going to go up in value. You'll be all right over time. You're going to have some repair costs and taxes and insurance you got to come out of pocket with annually. Um, and you'd have to do

those. You have to plan on that. But you've got the money to do this. If they agree to make the changes in their behaviors, characters, habits, and they

agree, and I'm literally going to write this out as a one-page >> document that we agree to, >> and I'm afraid to sign it.

>> I don't know why I simply there's no evidence that they will. So, you're right. You're right. >> Yeah. >> That that is that is a correct assumption, but that's the only way I would do the deal. Otherwise, I'd simply make them sell it. And that's really hard to do. You've got the money and it it's super hard to do since you got the money. >> Yeah, it is. >> But >> I'm a little heartless today. >> You are. Yeah. You're just kind of getting with it today.

>> Glad I got you on here cuz I might have was

[Music]

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[Music]

John's in Texas. Hey, John. How are you?

Hey Dave, I'm doing good. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I kind of got um an issue. I need to

know I just need someone with a with more insight than I do on this if I'm taking a more of a risk than I should.

Um I'm I'm looking at buying another car, a used car. Um since I've been 18,

I've been driving $500 beaters and that's just the way I've lived. I got married, got my wife pregnant, and I bought a new car, and I kind of regret it because I have 13K of that car. I

still need to pay off. It's reliable, but I've al said, you know, I should just stuck with a good used car. So, I'm looking at getting another one. My usual budget of buying a car is around 5K. Um,

but I've been I live in an area where it's hard to find a reliable car for 5K.

You'll typically buy it for 5K and then you'll have to sink another one, two, three grand in repairs into it. and I

come across a car that's at $9,200. It's got 43,000 miles on it. It's a Lexus ES300. Super reliable. The dude said he

has receipts from every time they got gas. I mean, it's got every record that you need there. It's in mint condition, garage. >> John, do you have $9,200?

>> I do. I do. Yes, sir. I have um so back

in cashwise I have about 30k disposable income and about 5k in crypto and silver

that I I I don't consider spending money but I I have right now I have $10,000 in cash on my desk and I'm looking at it.

>> And you have and you have uh and you have $13,000 car payment.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. I would sell the crypto

today.

>> Okay. >> For all the reasons. And um I would pay

off your car today and I would buy this car.

>> Okay.

Okay. >> You've got the cash to do all of that.

>> I do. >> Yep. I'd be debtree by the end of this transaction and have two decent cars and then start saving with no car payment.

Is that your only debt other than your home? >> That is. Me and my wife got a um we got

a lawsuit from a car wreck. We finally settled a lawsuit and I paid off all my debt this past year.

Car except that car she's driving. Yeah.

Okay. And you got a baby on the way, you said, or brand new baby?

>> No, he's one and a half. >> Oh, good. Okay, perfect. And you're you're what? 26 or 25?

>> Uh 27. >> 27. Pretty good guess. Okay.

>> And so almost like I've done this. Yeah.

And so um >> yeah, that's exactly where you are. And now here's the trick, dude. Okay. You you you have mastered the art of living

frugally in order to save money.

You have not mastered the art of managing money.

>> Yes, sir. >> Which will make the money that you have coming in now with no debt grow really,

really fast. And so, I'm going to give you guys every dollar premium for that baby. And I want you and your wife to sit down with zero car payments. And you have the newer you have the new Lexus.

She has the paid for $13,000 of debt that's gone. And you've got some money over here to work your baby steps. And now we got to build and make sure we have an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses. And then once we have that, we're going to start investing in our 401ks and you're going to be wealthy.

But you're going to systematize your frugality rather than just saying frugality is going to save me. Frugality

won't make you wealthy. It is one of the

things that will cause you to build build margin and the margin will make you wealthy. But you can't frugal yourself into rich. You can only frugal

yourself into survival. And you live in a cave, collect lint, and only come out on triple coupon Thursday. And so you that's that's frugality, but there's no there's no life in there.

>> And so that that's that's the $500 car thing. And so you've been very wise in that sense. But I want you to just harness that energy and focus it now and

systematize it. And that's called managing money, not just cheaping.

Cheaping is good for a while to get you where you need to go. You're going to be a great dad. You're going to be a great husband. You're a good man. I'm glad you called. We want to help you and your family. You hang on. We'll have him pick up and get you going on this. Carson's in Provo, Utah. Hi, Carson. Speaking of frugal, what's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? I'm doing great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Yeah. No, I loved hearing what you were saying before. I guess my question is um how do I know if I'm being too frugal or too cheap? Um I I love kind of what you

talk about giving and I think that's something that I could be a little better at, but I just feel like sometimes I'm a little too frugal or a little too cheap or the people around me think I'm >> well you live in a cult. You live people around you that overspend. And so if a congressman says you're being too too frugal, that's not an indication you're frugal. It's just an indication you're on track.

So broke people make fun of your finances. That's okay. So that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is you're wondering.

>> I am not. So I'm 24. I just started my

first like full-time job and I'm making pretty good money.

>> What's pretty good money?

>> I'm making 85,000 a year.

>> Good. What are you doing? Um, I'm a computer we're little software developers. >> Good. Good for you. Give us some examples. Uh, so say Dave and I go to lunch with you. Give us a couple of examples where we might think you're too

frugal. What is your best guess?

>> Um, if I didn't offer to pay, if I chose

or like made some comments about if the most expensive thing on the menu was, you know, ridiculously expensive or if I chose maybe like the cheapest thing on the menu as a little obvious.

I don't know. That's uh I don't that's not jumping out at you. >> That's just somebody that's being aware.

>> Yeah. I I think you may be beating yourself up. >> Yeah. I think you're doing okay on that.

>> Here's the thing. There are three things you can do with money. And you should always do all three things to be psychologically and spiritually mature.

You should always be generous. So when you're at lunch, regardless of what you order, I want you to leave a nice tip.

Those people work hard. Okay. The second thing is you can enjoy money. And I want you to get some joy from money.

I used to work for a guy that was trying that was trying to help me build wealth. And he said, "Dave, I want you to build enough wealth that you read a menu from the left to the right. Most people spend their whole lives looking down the price column to choose what they're going to order. I want you to order what you want to order, regardless of the price.

And that means you've built enough wealth that it doesn't matter what you have for freaking lunch." Okay?

to enjoy your life within reason. and the you know so generosity enjoy and then investing and I want you to be systematically investing. So if you're giving money and you're enjoying money you're doing no investing you're out of balance. If you're investing and you're enjoying money but you're not doing any generosity you're out of balance. You follow me? So any of that it's a three-legged stool. You got to get all three legs to sit down on that stool.

And I'd be working on that and practicing um you're you're good at

living on less than you make. That's a natural gifting. My wife is the same way. My wife has leftovers in the refrigerator and we're multi multi multi-millionaires. It makes no sense at all. Okay. But they're there and um and

and then tells me how great they are over and over and over again just to try to sell me on them. After 43 years, she's still trying to make this sale.

It's she's her natural gifting is frugality. >> Okay. Some people's natural gifting is generosity. Some people's natural gifting is they love saving. and they get a hive from investing and watching their mutual fund account grow. So, lean

into that. Enjoy the ride, but make sure

you're doing some things that feel a little bit like you're spending too much. That's you enjoying your money.

Yeah. While you're being generous, while you're investing, >> and if you're doing all three, you're going to be okay. >> That's right. Quick question. Would you describe yourself as fearful or hopeful with money?

Will.

>> Oh, me. I'm sorry. >> Oh, my bad. I pushed the wrong Carson's already on hold.

I got you. >> I'll put him on hold. >> Yeah. I think here's what I was going to get at.

I think people have to is it's a great uh point you made. You got to ask yourself, is my natural default because of the environment I grew up in or the experience that I've lived to this moment. Both your environment and experience is what shapes the way you see any issue and certainly money.

towards hope with money? And there's no wrong answer here. But when you can see that, then you can go into the roots of this and go, why am I naturally fearful about money? Or why am I tending to be a little bit more hopeful, a little bit more optimistic?

And that's really key to kind of know yourself. When Rachel wrote her bestselling book, I'm looking at it, number one bestseller, know yourself, know your money. I thought it was very insightful. Let's give him a copy.

Let's do that. I think it'd be a great gift. Give him a copy. Carson, hang on.

We'll get you a copy of Rachel's book. I think it'll help you with this whole discussion. >> Really good. >> Yeah.

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Jane is with us in Florida. Hi Jane, how are you? >> Hi, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I had a question about what you would think in our for our situation. We just bought a small business using an SBA 7A loan.

>> I'm sorry. Say that again. I didn't hear the first part. It got garbled.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. I was just asking what you think we should do in our situation.

We just bought a small business choosing an SBA 7A loan and we live in a very

high cost of living area, my fiance and I, and we're considering buying a house versus renting considering that we have

this new debt with us. So, what do you

think we should do? >> You both signed an SBA loan together and you're not married.

>> We're about to be married. Yes. >> When?

>> This this year?

>> Friday.

Got it. >> This is very dangerous.

How much is the FB SBA loan?

>> Around 700,000.

>> How old are you two?

>> I'm 28. He's 29.

>> What is this business?

>> It is a bluecollar service business that does very well. It's um specific area

that it services and it's a necessary service. So, h >> have you um have you have you opened?

>> Yeah, we we took over two weeks ago.

>> Oh, someone else had it and you bought it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yes. That That's >> What is the uh what's the annual profits on this business?

>> Gross last year was over a million. Um

the owner last year paid himself from 350,000.

>> Geez.

And you paid 700 grand for it. Okay.

Correct. >> Um what uh uh and are you both working it full-time?

>> Um I have a job and he's working

>> 100,000 around there.

>> Okay. And so hypothetically your household income is 350.

>> Well, he's not going to pay himself as much. >> Yeah. I mean, you have a profit in the business of 250, >> right? Yeah. >> That's a profit.

>> Even if he doesn't pay himself, he paid himself. It's profit. It's taxable income. It's got to come somewhere. If it's not a salary or not, it comes to you at the end of the year.

>> Mhm. >> You're going to pay taxes on it. You might as well take it home. Okay?

>> Right? >> So, you make 250 there, 150 with you, that's 350. You owe 700. No, I would not buy a house.

I would rent a cheap one-bedroom apartment, and I would pay this crazy butt loan off that you got yourself into in two years or two and a half years. >> Well, that's what we're doing now, so good. I would just stay right where you are. And I also think that you're extremely vulnerable when you did this without being married.

And so you're not going to do it, but you should get married immediately. >> Yeah. Yeah.

unmarried couple got gets into a business and the relationship goes kaput and then it's nasty. I want to make sure our audience understands why you're so certain about that. We hear that over and over again.

We get it when everything doesn't work out exactly like you planned, >> which is every time.

>> It never works out exactly like you planned. It might be better than you planned. It might be worse than you planned, but it never works out exactly like you planned. So, folks, here's what you got to think through. What what Ken's right, what we what we see is um

what causes this. Okay, so here here's an example of things that have come in over the years. Now, this is pretty macob, but it's actual phone calls, okay? And over the 30 years of doing this, they're in the situation that that young lady is in. And um he gets t-boned

and is in a wheelchair,

can't speak, can't move.

Now what? Oh, or he gets killed.

Now she owns a business with her future mother-in-law because there's no will, of course.

But and his half of stuff does not go to a fiance under Florida law unless there's a will that states that it does.

So you need that done by the end of the day.

Um but yeah, you end up um and you didn't really like the mother-in-law.

You were just loved the son-in-law.

>> You just love the the son. That's all you loved. And so you were but now you're partners with her and she's not going to work there, by the way. But she wants her half.

>> Yeah. and you got to go down there and work full-time because you are about to get foreclosed on by the SBA. If you don't, all this stuff happens all the time. And and so the other thing that can happen is you go in there and you take it over and it runs better than you thought it would and you're able to pay the loan off in 18 months instead of two and a half years.

That would be an awesome thing. I hope that for you. I hope that's what occurs. I hope it's better than you thought it was.

yeah, this thing of uh running a business, there's three rules of business. It takes twice as long as you think it's going to. It costs twice as much as you think it's going to. And you're not the exception. Those are the three rules of business.

>> Um, and I've experienced them in depth over 35 years of running Ramsay. So, um,

I'm not the exception either. And so, I have to plan everything out for worst case scenarios. And, um, that's

certainly a not borrowing money and b certainly not borrowing money with someone I'm not married to.

The same thing applies to buying a house with your sweet little fiance. Don't do it. >> That's right. >> Well, see, they're living together now. A more common scenario, too, is that he gets under pressure. He's never run his own business before. And I got to tell you something, folks, that's a whole different enchilada. And if he gets super stressed, the relationship starts.

>> Called him an enchilada.

>> I said, "No, not him." I said it. Being a business owner, >> he will change. He will change form.

>> He will. And uh you hope none of this happens, but that's why we're not, you know, the sky is falling. This isn't chicken little advice. This is a lot of experience. >> Don't ask Sharon Ramsey about Dave Ramsey going broke version versus Dave Ramsey today version. She You won't like the discussion. >> Yeah. >> If because she will tell you the truth.

>> Yeah. >> It's not pretty. I'm just saying.

>> Yeah, I agree with you, Dave. Get to the courthouse, get a will. Let's get this stuff. We jumped into this massive partnership, but we didn't really cover it all the way around. >> Yeah, >> that's what concerns us. doing things in the wrong order. Get your head taken off. It's pretty simple, >> right? >> So, yeah, the data is there, folks. The data is there. It's not it's not simply a moralistic argument, although you could make the argument on that basis alone, but it's not simply that. There's legal implications, financial implications.

All of these things roll into these discussions and and running out your worst case scenarios. So, yeah. No, I would not buy a house and add to the problems that you have already. I would run like my hair was on fire to get these problems cleaned up.

>> One thing I want to do, I want to ask a question on behalf of our very large audience here. We didn't discuss. I'd love for you to give them a a fundamental. If you're going to buy a business, how much you should spend based on revenues?

Because I think >> I don't think they overpaid. I don't think they did either, but >> if they got if they got a good buy if they if they if it if the numbers are what they think they are, if their due diligence when they were signing up to and going through the books. >> That's right. >> They actually did that.

The I mean, cuz here here's the thing. You're buying a business. There's the owner will tell you this is what our books say. I don't care.

>> What do the tax returns say? >> Yes. >> What they file taxes on? Well, we didn't report everything.

Oh, so you're telling me you don't have integrity? Okay. And now I'm supposed to believe your books. No, I think I'm going off the number on the tax return.

What you're willing to pay taxes on is your real profit. What you actually have to pay taxes on, that's your real profit. Well, I have depreciation schedule. Yeah, you also had the expenses of the buy the item that you were depreciating.

So, that's bull crap. And so, help you with the math on that.

That's how that works. So anyway, I want to see what the real bottom line is, what the real taxable income is. And based on that, I'm going to do a multiple of three, four, five, somewhere in there is going to be the valuation of that small business. And um that's after

a manager is paid to run the business if you're an absentee owner.

This is the Ramsay Show.

[Music]

Hey [Music] be.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people, build wealth, do work that they actually

love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, and host of the new hit on the Ramsey Network, Front Row Seat. And uh you need

to check that out if you haven't checked out that podcast. It's a long form interviews with some of America's best and brightest and some of the world's best and brightest as a matter of fact.

And um you had Gary Cise on the other day. >> Yeah. You know what a great actor, probably one of the most respected men in Hollywood and and really probably the

most respected servant of our men and

women who have served in the military. He's got a great heart for veterans. does incredible work, of course, on the backs of probably one of the most beloved characters in movie history as it relates to our military characters, and that's Lieutenant Dan and doing great work. He's good friend of yours and came in and we had a great time.

>> Yeah. He's moved to this area a few years ago and we've got to be friends and genuinely the kindest gentle guy. Very

humble. >> Yeah. Yeah. You guys will love watching that interview.

It's great. So, check it out. Um, and uh, the Jimmy John interview has been going zoom zoom, hasn't it? >> Yes, absolutely.

It's huge feedback on that as as we really had a hunch that it would because a the guy knows what he's talking about when you go from offering three sandwiches with used equipment to selling for $3.3 billion. You should probably listen to this guy. He's got the American dream figured out. He did it and did it well.

And one of the kindest talk about kindness >> and generous. Yeah. Yeah.

Unbelievably generous. Yeah. >> He shoots the whole theory that billionaires are evil people to pieces.

He really does. He's pretty funny about that. >> He >> I thought he would be more bombastic to that answer. It was a good answer, though.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He He was starting to heat up. >> Yeah, he was.

But he caught himself. He did. He did. >> You know, I just feel sorry for him.

They're just not smart. It's like >> Yeah, it's good. Oh my gosh. Uh check it all out.

It's called Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman. It's on YouTube and on podcast anywhere great podcasts are sold. You'll be able to pull it up, watch it, listen to it. Um, you will get great information and inspiration and that's what we do here.

Alex is with us in Texas. Hi, Alex.

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm a newlywed just wanting to get your opinion on the best way to join finances. >> Cool. How long you been married?

>> Um, I got married in July, so just a couple weeks. >> Oh, look at you. Way to go. How old are you guys? >> Um, 27 and 28.

>> Okay, that's a very important question.

And uh the reason it's very important is 30 years of doing what we're doing, we know that very few couples have a high quality marriage and and build wealth

without combining their finances. And uh

as a matter of fact, which one of the things we found in the millionaire study where we were studying millionaires, 83% of millionaires said they were working handinand as a team with their spouse.

Both had a vote, both were pulling the wagon together, and that's how they became millionaires. So, it's a great question. Now, the question is how to do it. Uh, from a tactical standpoint, your

monthly income, pretty simple. One checking account.

>> All the money goes into one checking account. That number, that monthly

income number goes at the top of the budget.

And the two of you sit down together and have a budget committee meeting.

And you say, "Okay, before the month begins, we're going to have 32 73 or

$8,642 or whatever the number is this coming month. That's what we're going to have.

Now, let's spend all of those dollars.

Give every one of those dollars a name in the every dollar budget and we both agree to it. There cannot be any money left over. It has to go into savings. It has to go into generosity. It has to go onto a debt. It has to go be spent on groceries. It has to go to something.

Every dollar has to have an assignment exactly to the penny. No leftover squash

money. No need. If you want to put it in savings, put it in savings. I don't care. And then call it, you know, call it my emergency fund. Whatever you're doing with it, do it on purpose and do it together. Is that what you're asking?

>> Um, yes. But also, so we have some debt.

I just wasn't sure. I've seen how some people say do like 95% all in one account. You each get like 5% for on money slash money, whatever you want. >> Yeah. Some people are broke.

>> So don't listen. So don't listen to some people. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Some people got an opinion about everything and so and they're wrong. So no, I wouldn't do any of that. The thing is this. You're going to attack your debts together. It's for better, for worse, for rich or for poorer. And the old >> the old uh uh marriage vows from the Book of Common Prayer say, "Unto thee.

All my worldly goods I pledge."

>> So we're truly joining everything. He He

got you and your debt. You got him and

your debt. You got him and his income.

He got you and your income. And now we

are we, not you and me.

>> Okay, perfect. Then I have one other question if that's okay. >> Okay. >> Um, we do have a daughter. She'll be two

and we are trying to find out the best saving option for her future.

>> Okay. That would be a 529 plan for her

college. And you don't need to worry about that until you're out of debt.

have your emergency fund in place and that'll be called the baby steps. I'm going to send you guys a wedding gift. It's called The Total Money Makeover.

It's our bestselling book. We've sold 14 million of them. America's greatest coffee t table coaster. And so, um, it's sat there on people's coffee tables for years and they don't read it. But, I'm going to send you one. It's got the baby steps in it. And people that follow those baby steps show you exactly how to do it. They become wealthy and they get

out of debt and they learn to work together. I'm going to add a little wedding gift as well, Dave, since uh you've got me in the spirit of giving.

Uh Rachel Cruz uh wrote a great book,

number one bestseller, called Know Yourself, Know Your Money. And this is the advice I want to give you. Dave gave you great tactical advice, but you two are learning how to truly live together.

And and and one of the most important things you'll do in your marriage is learn how to manage money together. And one of the reasons I want you two to read this book together is because you both need to know based on your experience in life with money and then your environment, the way your parents talked about money, that's all shaped you. And then you guys are wired a certain way towards money and knowing um how you guys are wired for money, which this book will teach you and you'll be able to really grasp it. It's a great book for young couples that are getting started because if you two can understand each other as you go into the budgeting and into the baby steps, I think it'll make it so much more I think it's a great book for every young couple to read.

So, we'll give you that book as well. >> Yeah, I agree. And Rachel wrote it actually out of the pain of her and Winston learning to >> That's right. >> work together.

Yeah. >> Um and um because they're very different. Rachel's got a little bit of her father in the sense that uh this abundance versus scarcity. I've always thought I could out earn my stupidity and Rachel definitely goes along with that.

And Winston on the other hand is very methodical, very careful and as a saver >> and is very wise and so the two of them working together have have woven that together over a decade plus a marriage into a wonderful marriage. >> Yeah, that's >> and uh so that's good advice and you learn to work together.

Typically, a spender attracts a saver.

Typically, abundance attracts scarcity.

Typically, you know, the uh nerd that likes details

attracts the person who is not that concerned about details and would much rather have a party. And so, the free spirit. So the nerd and the free spirit, the spender and the saver, the scarcity and the abundance, all these things are typically opposites and you need each other. You learn from each other that you add spice to the gumbo from each other. Uh, one's not right, one's not wrong, but learning to work together, as Ken's pointing out, is absolutely vital.

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[Music]

Mel is in Nashville. Hi, Mel. How are you?

>> I'm good, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, hey. Um, so I am

set up with trying to figure out what I'm doing. I have no clue what I'm doing just to be honest. I'm trying to get on a plan to get out of debt. Um and I just

I don't really know where to start and the last year has been awful. Um I have

about uh approximately probably $25,000

in credit card debt. Um and it also

includes a personal loan. Um but um

about a year, well a little over a year ago, I lost my husband. he passed away.

And ever since then, I like I was doing

actually trying to do a little bit better before that happened. I was starting to get things paid off. And then I went back right back into the cycle of just using my credit card for everything and just trying to stay afloat. And um I still have two kids at

home, so I'm trying to navigate all of that. And I'm trying to get through this without crying. So >> So how old are your babies? How old are your babies? Uh they are 10 and 15.

>> Okay. And what do you make? What do you make? What's your income?

>> Uh before taxes, it's um almost 60.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. How old are you?

>> I'm 44. >> What do you do for a living?

>> Um I work in insurance.

>> Okay. All right.

Um

well there there's several touch points that help you get control.

Okay. Um some of them are emotional, spiritual, psychological. Some of them are mathematical.

Okay. >> Math is math is we get our income up

looking at some side hustles >> that you can do with babies at home. And

uh we get our outgo down and we make the

money that we have behave. And that's called a budget. The money that you have is not behaving. It's living from desperation to desperation because you are >> right. >> When you're scared and you're scared, I can hear it. You get desperate. And

every time I get desperate, right after that, I get stupid.

>> Yeah. >> And that's what piles up. and then you feel stuck and then the shame comes and

all those other things. So all that's the emotional part and the psychological part and the spiritual part. Okay, but um the good news is you actually make

enough money to live on. You don't make a ton of money, but you can pro we can probably figure this out. >> What do you owe on your car?

>> Uh actually I don't.

>> Oh, good. That's good news. So 25,000 in

credit card and student and personal loan. What other debt?

>> Um, that that's it.

>> What do you owe on your home?

>> Nothing. >> It's paid off. >> Uh, it's paid off. Well, we we live in a trailer, but it's paid off.

>> It's paid off. You don't have any house payment. >> Paid off, right? No mortgage. Yeah.

>> That's good. That's good. Okay. So, no mortgage is a good thing and 25K in credit card and you make 60. This is doable. Okay.

>> Right. >> Um, and and so >> I tell myself, I'm like, it's doable. I don't know why I can't see. >> Well, because because your heart was broken. You lost your husband. Huh?

>> And you were struggling. Okay. And that's just normal human stuff. So, what we've got to do is help you put together a system to live on the money that you have.

And we're going to put you on the every dollar budget and we're going to get your Ramsey coach and I'm going to pay for all of it. Okay? I'll take care of you. Make sure you get up on and get running here.

You can do this mathematically, but the first thing is is you've got to change the way you look at it. in the way you think about it. Of course, we're going to get the credit cards out and cut them up.

>> Not >> not. >> Okay. So, we're going to stop using the stupid things. We're going to have a plan to eat and pay the lights and, you

know, uh make sure the water is on and then we'll start talking about how we can pay off this debt after we've met our basic needs in the household. But if you've if you've eaten food, if your family has food and your family has lights and water and you've got gas for

your car to drive to work, um uh you

make plenty of money to do all that, >> right? >> And so we've just got to make the money behave and then we can start using some of it after we've taken care of Mel and her kids. Then we'll use some of it to start taking care of the stupid banks and get them out of your life forever and ever.

Amen. never go back.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, that's what we're going to do.

So, I can we can show you exactly how to do this, but you're just by yourself and you're um you're it's what I would be

doing if I lost Sharon. I'd be just flailing around a little bit.

>> Yeah. >> And you're just kind of flopping around, you know, and it's just going everywhere and you're just running and going and you're tired, you're stressed. Is that Am I Is this true? Am I telling the truth? >> Yes. Yes, very much.

>> Okay. All right. Are you in a good church?

>> I am. Yeah. >> Go ahead. >> I am good. >> Does your pastor know you're facing all this? >> Yes. >> You sure? >> Yeah.

I mean, they know I don't know if they know how how bad I'm I've been the last

few months. Probably not. But >> yeah. Yeah. You need you need to tell your people that love you.

>> Yeah. cuz the the book that I read and the book that you read says we take care of widows.

>> Okay? So, give your give your give your congregation and your pastor the opportunity to do what they're called to do. >> Okay? And Ramsay's going to do that, too. Ramseay's going to set you up with a Ramsey coach free of charge, sit with

you, help you put together your budget, and then coach you. And then also hold you accountable. That means they're going to be mean to you and make you do it. You're going to freaking do it.

Okay. >> Yes. >> And Mel, Mel, listen. This is really doable.

And I I want to just throw a number at you. Not that you have to take on you, but I just want to show you something. If you uh were to make an additional $2,000 a month and you put every nickel on that towards this debt, you're talking about getting out of this in a year.

the start of this call, you can actually knock this out. And you've had horrible change thrust upon your life by losing your husband, but you're still here and

your kiddos are still here. And this this this is not going to be fun getting a budget and cutting out credit cards and not relying. It's not going to be fun. But you've already had a horrible fun than the hell you're sitting in right now. >> That's exactly right. You can get through this. I just want you to hear that you can actually get out of this.

>> Yeah. This is very, very doable and you hang on. We're going to put our arms around you and help you make sure you do it. >> You get on the phone with a Ramsey coach as soon as you get hooked up with one.

Sit down with them. They're going to take we're going to take care of you and we're going to make sure you get on that every dollar budget and stay on it. And you let your pastor and your community know where you are and that you they may not need to give you money. They may just need to love you.

>> That's okay. I'm not saying you're a charity case. I don't really think you are. But if they want to give you some money and put towards this wouldn't make me mad, but depends on the congregation, how they how they work and all that.

But I mean, more than anything, they just need to love you. >> That's right. >> It's, you know, you you don't need to do this by yourself. Life is not good to man be alone, you know, when you do these things together.

>> Dave, you picked up on something and she broke when you said it and you were right. Um, you you mentioned the word shame.

oneon-one on the air.

How does shame hurt us in times like this when we're trying to jump out of debt and and because you you've experienced it personally. Just talk about shame. >> It's the great lie from the pit of hell is what it is. It makes you people when

they get in a situation like that when you're broke and you can't pay your bills, you think and you screwed up. You think you're the only one, >> right? And it turns out if you've got your act together, that's when you're the only one, right? Most people are

broke and out of control. Most people don't have their crap together. 78% of Americans say they live paycheck to paycheck. That's eight out of 10 houses on your street are broke and out of control. So don't let anybody whisper in your ear, call the devil, and say you're not worthy because you're broken out of control. You're just a normal person.

Normal just sucks. That's all. You don't want to be normal. Normal sucks bad. So

the it's the great thing that I I used to think when I went broke I was the only one on the planet earth that was that stupid. And when I started telling my story, it's like everybody's like, "Yeah, me too. Me too. Me too. Me too.

Me too." It's like everybody raised their hand and said, "I've been I've done stupid. I was stupid. I went broke too, Dave. I went broke in real estate just like you." I kept hearing it over and over and over now for 30 years. I've heard it everywhere. Normal is this. You just don't want to be normal. That's the trick. [Music]

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>> Today's question comes from Victoria in Texas. My 14-year-old son wants to allocate some of his earned money to online gambling. He says everyone, and this is in all caps, at school does it.

Please help me explain to him why it is 100% wrong.

>> How old is your son? your your youngest.

>> My youngest is 17. I got a 17 and a 19.

So, I will answer it as if they came to me and said, "Dad, everyone is doing it." Uh, first I'd start with, "I can't

help but my hear my nanny's voice right now." He used to say to us, "If everyone's jumping off of a bridge, would you do it, too?" You know, that's just old school, you know. And I'd start with that. Then I would say, "All right, let's look at gambling." And I actually would come to it with numbers. I'm a little bit of a data geek. And so I would actually go pull real numbers on this particular type of uh online game.

Let's say it's sports, okay? And I would show the rates of success on this and

let the numbers talk for you to some degree. Second, um uh I would explain

gambling as a whole and how it does not pay off. And uh and and I would say uh

just because they live in your house, if they're going to do something that you are philosophically or spiritually or whatever you want to say, opposed to uh what I what I would tell them, my son, is if you're going to do that and and you're going to uh go around me and and

and not honor the advice I'm giving you and do something so stupid, uh then you are not going to receive these blessings from me. Now, that may be too harsh, Dave. You may disagree with that, but I I would take a pretty strong stance after I've made the numbers case and and

and make it very clear. I don't believe in this. I think this is foolish and this is against the values of my home and therefore there are going to be consequences if you do this. And then they got to learn the hard way. >> Yeah.

Everyone at school that is male and 14 is looking

at pornography.

Not everyone is gambling.

>> That's a good point. >> He's lying. He's overstating. He's being

a 14-year-old using hyperbole. Okay. Uh

and 14 and 15 year olds are interesting beasts.

They're very interesting. I raised a few of them at our house with teenagers. We were we went with the uh Andy Andrews approach that we are not trying to raise great kids. we are trying to raise kids who become great adults. And so at that

stage of their development, the process that Sharon and I used was pretty simple because inside of every 14-year-old, there are two people, a 34 year old and

a four-year-old.

And so I would ask them, "Which one am I speaking to?" Cibil, y'all don't remember Cybil with multiple personalities. It's an old show from the 70s. Okay. But yeah, which one am I speaking to? to the four-year-old or the 14-year-old? If I'm speaking to the four-year-old, I'm simply going to tell you what to do and you're going to mind

because I'm older than you and I can make another one that looks just like you. You will behave.

Period. You will do exactly what I say for your own good because I love you. I

don't care if you have a feeling. It doesn't matter to me. You're simply going to do what I say. If you're four years old, that's how we deal with it.

Now, I'll be gentle and kind, but at the end of the day, I'm in freaking charge.

You're not. The inmates don't run the asylum. I'm bigger than you. I have more power than you. You're simply going to mind me for your own good. You're not going to play in the street. You're not going to touch hot stoves. You're not jumping off of waterfalls. You're four.

You're not driving cars. You're four.

We're not having a negotiation with a four-year-old. However, if you want to be an adult and sit here and talk about this, I will talk to you like an adult instead of a four-year-old. If that's the case, then I would do exactly what Ken's saying. Here's the data. Since the

internet opened, when I started this show, people used to call me with addictions all the time.

>> When we started doing financial coaching in 1992, we've been dealing with addicts ever since. 100% of addicts have money problems.

There's no exceptions.

That's the nature of being an addict.

Okay? When I started, addiction was

alcohol and drugs.

The number one addiction in America today being treated as pornography

online has exploded it. It's huge. Porn

online makes more money than all professional sports put together. In America today, it's vastly profitable

and it's everywhere. It's ubiquitous.

Keeping a 14-year-old away from porn, if they have a phone, is impossible

if they have connection to the internet.

And it is the fastest growing addiction.

It's destroying the sexual function of

young men for an entire generation.

The second and we see them in our office every day here where they've lost everything.

They've lost their families. They've lost their homes. They've lost their jobs. They've lost their careers because they're addicted. Just like when they were doing cocaine. Same thing. And son, this is the truth. And son, here's the other truth. The second fastest growing addiction in America is online gambling.

Do you think DraftKings can afford all of those ads? Because everyone that bets on DraftKings won.

No, they can afford all those ads cuz everyone that bets on DraftKings loses.

That's why the bookie always wins. The

house always wins. Period. It's a

statistical fact. It's how gambling works. And if you're so stupid that you

don't understand that, then you can understand this. Gambling is attacks on people who can't do math.

Walk into the lobby of the Bellagio.

Walk into the lobby of the MGM Grand and you will see some of the greatest architecture.

You'll see light fixtures that cost millions of dollars. You and it's all built on house money. You people gave them the money to build it.

That's how it works. It's a mathematical fact. So son, if you're 14, I'm going to explain these facts to you. And so I

don't want you to be involved in it. By the way, honey, I'm not involved in online porn and I'm not involved in online gambling. I sadly spoke with a 32-year-old the other day that's run up $600,000 in sports betting.

>> He makes 180 a year. He's going to lose

his marriage and his two little babies and his beautiful wife are going to leave. And there's nothing he can do about it cuz he can't stop himself. He's addicted. So, why would I let someone that I love be engaged in that?

Sweetheart, I love you. There's no chance I'm going to let you be engaged in things that will destroy your life.

By the way, you're not doing doing cocaine either, even if everyone's doing it. By the way, you're not doing crack either. Even if everyone's doing it. By the way, you're not going to drive 110 miles an hour and act like you're Speed Racer or something out here because everyone's doing it. You're going to do things in this house because I love you

that benefit you. This does not benefit

you. And so you're not doing it. Now, if

I can convince you and persuade you as an adult, I will persuade you as an adult like I just did. >> Yeah. >> Here's some data. Uh here we go. UC San Diego new study. 96% of over 700,000

online gamblers, that's a big sample size, 96% lost their money. Uh That's

all of them. >> Yeah. >> I mean, nobody wins.

>> You want to play the 4% game, it just doesn't add up. It doesn't make sense. >> What that makes you is an idiot, >> right? >> And that's what >> 96%. >> Yeah. If you want to be an idiot, if you want to join the 96% of losers, that's how I talk to a teenage kid. >> I get entertainment from it. >> That's the That's the last Yeah.

Whatever. >> Yeah. You work all week and you get entertaining. You get entertainment from losing the money that you worked all week for. At those rates, you might as well buy a dog and go mine for gold. Get

yourself a pan. >> So, the deal is I'm going to try to convince you. You're not doing it, but

I'm going to try to convince you and persuade you if you're willing to talk this through with an adult with me, and you're going to understand why you're not doing it. If you don't want to do that and you want to just throw a fit and be a four-year-old, I'll just simply tell you, you're not doing it. We don't do we don't negotiate with idiots. Not when they live in my house.

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We'll help you get going. Will is with us in Ohio. Hi Will, how are you?

>> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

So, uh, until about a year ago, we were, uh, living in a single wide trailer to save money, pay off debt, and we paid off about 60 grand in debt. We bought some land to hopefully build a house on in the future. But then we found black mold in our trailer and had to move out.

So, now we're renting and between the rent and the land payment, that's destroying our savings and we're we're kind of struggling here. So, I'm wondering, should we sell this land that we're we plan on for the future and want

um and keep renting to to pay other debts off or you know, we we've got some

family that's offered us land to build on for free, but houses are so dagone expensive now. I I'm not sure what to do.

>> Okay. Um what's your household income, sir? >> About 120 grand. Okay.

>> How long you've been married? 10 years.

>> Okay. All right. What's the land worth?

>> Uh, it's worth about double what we owe on it right now. It's worth about 120.

>> And you owe 60.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay.

All right. Um, what would happen if you

sold the land and took the 60,000 in cash that would be in your pocket and use that as a down payment on a house?

>> It'd be a heck of a down payment. Yeah.

Um, just it's real good for commutes. We like the land. I think it's an emotional connection to it, you know. Uh but there are there are some other houses in the area we can look at.

>> Yeah. I mean, you just buy a house and

and then, you know, later on do a land deal, right? After you get after you get some things going, get the house going up in value, start getting it paid off, you make good money, but you're kind of trapped right now. You can't really afford to build on it, >> right? >> And you say it's destroying your savings with the payment and the rent.

And so putting those two together and a down payment off the land and that buys a house, it makes a lot more sense as a as a first step. It's not necessarily a permanent decision. You know, it's always funny when you're buying a house.

>> Yeah. >> That's why people say stuff like, "I bought my forever home," >> which is a load of crap because it's never your forever home. There's only one forever home. That's heaven.

>> And other than that, you're going to move. So this idea, I'm never moving again, is that's just not true. Okay?

Unless you're 85, you're probably moving again. So, um, you know, and you may even be moving again there to the nursing home, but anyway, the, uh, so something's going on. Anyway, you're moving again. So, any It's not a permanent deal. Buy you a house, sit there five, six years, save up some more money, take the equity you make on that property with the equity you put into it, buy and start talking about building a house and buying you a piece of land at some point. But, um, you know, it's called a starter house, right?

Yeah.

>> What's your total debt?

>> Uh, we've got about 100k in debt. Uh, 20 on a student loan, 20 on a car, and 60 on the land.

>> Okay. All right. So, you got that 40 in debt. Good. Good call, Ken. I drove past that. I went straight to the real estate deal. Yeah. I need you to clear that stuff, too, and that makes this discussion harder. But, um, I'm

>> What's the car situation? You $20,000 debt on the car. Is it worth more than you owe? >> Uh, no. It's It's right It's probably worth right about that. It's fairly new.

>> What's the car payment on it?

>> Um, 400 bucks a month.

>> Okay. Um,

yeah. I It again, the way we answer questions here is what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? I'd sell the car and the land. >> And I'd take five I'd take five grand, go buy me a a car to get back and forth to work. I start talking about buying a house and get these student loans paid off. And um you know, now we only got 40k to put down, not 60. But anyway, um

uh but we're still doing a starter house deal. We're going to do a 15-year fixed where the payment's no more than a fourth year take-home pay. And you don't have a payment in the world then, dude.

>> And not a student loan payment, not a car payment, not a house payment, not anything. And uh at this point, I mean, not land payment, not anything. And and you're going to put 40k down. And um yeah, I'm going to go buy a house.

That's what I'm doing uh in that situation. And then I'm gonna the emotional tide of the land. I get I've got a a piece of ground over here not far from where I'm sitting right now that's um I go over there and shoot guns, ride four-wheelers and everything with the grandkids, all that stuff. And I love that piece of dirt. Uh I have an emotional connection to it. I understand what you're talking about. I don't want to sell it. Um but you know what's the

best thing for my family long term? you

know, that's a lot of money to shoot guns. So, um, you got to think about

what you're doing and what what what is more important than something else in my case. I'm not saying that's what you're doing with it, obviously. But, okay, Chris is with us in Cincinnati. Hey, Chris. How are you?

>> I'm fine. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I have a question. Um, I have got about

45 to $50,000 in various debts, about I

think about 15,000 in credit card debts and about 22,000 or so in student loans

and then a couple of other things. And I

have been contacted by this debt

consolidation or debt reduction uh

company and run away.

run away quickly. What's your What's your household income?

>> About 25,000 a year.

>> 25,000 a year.

>> Yeah. >> How many hours a week are you working? >> Social Security. >> Oh, you're on social security. How old are you? >> Yeah. 75.

How have you got a student loan debt?

>> Well, I was uh I went to this uh

community college about I started about

10 or 12 years ago and then um at one

point I just I I was a little short of money so I signed up for some student loans um for a total of about $20,000.

And then >> what what did you do used to do for a living before you retired?

>> Computer programming. I mean, I'm not actually I'm looking for a job doing that. >> Yeah. >> Uh again, >> I think that would be helpful. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Uh because I enjoy doing it and it pays good. >> Yeah. >> Um >> no, here's the thing. The stu the debt consolidation doesn't work because it doesn't change anything except the interest rates. Your student loan interest rate is so small it doesn't matter. Your credit card debt's so small, you're going to pay it off fast anyway once you get this new job.

And so that's why I'm saying run away.

Uh because they're making you a promise that if you just take this pill, everything will be okay. No, you don't need to take the pill. You need to just make everything okay. So, and the way we work that is we list your debts, smallest to largest. We pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. And let's do something to get some income coming into this house. And um

approaching it that way. Um, but credit

cards or student loans as you approach your 70s are uh Yeah, those got to be cleared up because it's taking all the fun out of your life. I bet that just no fun at all. Yeah, Dave, you and I were talking about this during a commercial break several shows ago. We were on together and we were we were seeing what what the call was coming up next and I said to you I said, "I'll bet you this lady because she was in her 70s got a student loan when she was in her early 50s and it came true." Now, I've taken this call a lot and I've seen it a lot where, you know, people would call me and on the old Ken Cole show and they'd say, "Hey, I tried to transition at 50 or whatever." And I just want to say this, we're anti, you know, this idea of just going for a student loan just to get a degree without any kind of focus as to why we're getting it.

there is no scenario by which you should ever take a student loan. I I I'm going to go that hardcore on that.

>> Let me go hardcore. If you're breathing,

there is no scenario in which you should take out a student loan. >> Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But just what is happening? We're seeing this happen a lot where people think they're going to change their life midstream. Yeah. >> With a student loan >> or downstream, either one. Yeah, >> that's possible, too. >> I like what you did there. I see what you did there. [Music]

[Music] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create

actual amazing relationships. Ken

Coleman Ramsey, personality, number one bestselling author and host of the Ramsay Network's hit Front Row Seat.

He's my co-host today. Be sure and check that show out. The phone number here is8255225.

Sarah's in San Francisco. Hi Sarah. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, uh, I have kind of a unique dual job situation. Um, I'm a property manager and a teacher. So, basically what that means is I live at a property and I get to live here for free in exchange for

doing housework. You name it, I've probably done it. Dog care, pet care, laundry. I mean, I designed a golf cart one time. It's really random. Um, so I

don't have to pay rent, which is incredible. I've been doing this for about 4 years for really really affluent people. But um the household that I'm currently with, there's um a lot of secrets that I unfortunately have to like carry with me of really terrible things that are happening. Um and I just don't know how to weigh like should I leave and start paying rent somewhere or should I stay and just kind of like push down the gross feelings and continue saving money.

>> Wow. Life is too short to be feeling

gross because of somebody else's behavior.

>> Yeah. >> So, yeah, you've got to leave. Now, the question is, how do we leave smart?

>> Yeah. >> So, what are you going to do with your life now? >> Now that you don't work any there anymore, what are you going to do?

>> I mean, I just I feel like I could save so much money for a down payment on a house if I if I stayed since I'm fully >> No, no, no. We've already established you're leaving.

Okay.

>> Cuz they're are they doing illegal stuff? >> No, they're just like cheating on each other and like stealing alcohol from me.

It's just really like bad.

>> Stealing alcohol from you?

>> Yeah. I And then they blamed me for it

about a year ago. It's just >> blamed you for stealing your alcohol.

>> They So they they drink a lot. That's They're trust fund kids. All they do is just like drink and party all the time.

And about a year ago, they thought I was stealing alcohol until I found out one of them was an alcoholic. >> Oh, okay. >> Sarah, if you're representing your position in a court of law, and Dave and I are judges, you're not doing a really good job. You keep giving us multiple reasons as to why you should be running from these spoiled brats.

Listen, the amount of money you're saving is not worth the toll it's taking on your life. True or false?

>> This is probably true. >> Well, then there you go. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 23. >> Okay. Now, what are you gonna do with your life, 23 year old?

>> I mean, I can move really anywhere I want. Like, I'm a teacher, so I can move wherever. >> Do you want to stay as a teacher? That's what we're trying to figure out. >> No, she she's a caretaker.

>> No, she's a teacher and a property manager. >> Oh, you teach out inside the home or outside the home? >> Outside the home. Just like a public school teacher. >> So, you have you have a teaching certificate? >> Yeah. >> A four-year degree?

>> Yes. >> And it's You're still currently teaching if I understood you correctly, right?

>> Yes. You have any money at all?

>> Um I the only debt I have is my car loan

$5,000.

>> I have like >> Yeah, like six grand in my savings and like Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Leave.

Load up the car. Load up the car and move. What city do you want to be a teacher in? Cuz you're leaving and it's not San Francisco. I'll help you.

>> It's not San Francisco. >> Where what city do you want? Where did you grow up? I grew up in Oregon, which I'm sorry I would never go back there, but >> Okay, that's fine. We've established one state. You're not going to. Two states.

>> Yeah, we got 48. >> The state of San Francisco and the state of Oregon. You are not going to those two states. Okay.

>> Now, where else are we going? Cuz you you you're 23, have wheels, have $6,000.

We're going to move and get a one-bedroom apartment, and be a teacher.

Tada.

>> Just like that. >> Just like that.

You're like a free person and everything and this is America, not Russia. It's awesome.

>> Where do you want to live? Where's your next adventure?

>> Even though it saves me a bunch of money. >> Where's your next adventure? You're leaving.

>> Or go do this again somewhere else, but not for alcoholics. Go to the state where you want to be. >> You're going to end up getting sued or put in jail for something one of them do. >> Yeah. You know evil is in the house. You can smell it. It's in the air. Get out of there, girlfriend.

Now >> go >> now. Where are you going? What city? I want to know what's your next adventure that makes you smile. Where have you always wanted to live?

>> Gosh. Uh, Florida's pretty great.

>> Head over load up the truck and head to Beverly, kid. Yeah. No per no income tax. State income tax there. That's great. >> Florida's good to their teachers, too.

>> Yeah. And you can property manage for sane people in Florida if you want to save up money for a house. You keep coming back to how much money you're saving as if you can't reproduce this somewhere else in a much better situation. You've become a prisoner to

this situation because you're only looking at how much money you're saving as if you can't do it anywhere else.

>> That's true. >> I know. It's why I said it. >> Okay. So, here's the deal. Okay.

I want you out of there before Labor Day.

You have 27 days. Ready, set, go.

>> This is your This is your old uncle Dave. Old ugly uncle Dave who loves you

telling you, "Ready, set, go. Set yourself free.

You are free. Leave. Let these fine

people know that by the end of the month we're going to load up the stuff and go.

And if they want you to go sooner, oh good. Oh, good.

Get in the car, put your crap in the car. You can put all your crap in one car, can't you?

>> Yeah, basically. >> Load up the car and drive to Florida.

What city in Florida do you want to live in? >> I like NASCAR. Daytona is pretty cool.

>> All right. Daytona Daytona is a neat little town >> and affordable, by the way. >> It's a neat little town. >> Yeah. Head on over there, kiddo. Not that far from Bokeh, and there's some rich crazies there, too.

>> That's a good point. Who's your favorite NASCAR driver of all time?

>> Oh, I've been watching a lot of documentaries lately, but I just got to go with uh probably Kyle Bush.

>> Okay. So, I want you to channel your inner Kyle Bush >> and drive from San Francisco. Yeah.

>> Under the speed limit. We're not trying to get you to break the speed limit. >> He's aggressive. I want you to go all the way to Daytona. >> Yeah. >> And when the sun's coming up, by the way, at Daytona you can still drive on the beach. I want you to drive out on the beach and sit there and smile and go, I am 23, have money in my pocket. I

can be and do anything I want in the greatest land the world has ever known.

I don't have to put up with a couple of cheating, drunk trust fund morons, and I'm gone. >> Mhm.

>> How's that feel?

>> It feels good. It's scary, but it's scary. It's scary, but it's an awesome scary. It's like bungee jumping.

>> Go.

>> Yeah, >> we're pushing you off the bridge. I don't know if you felt it or not. >> Yeah, >> this was our answer 20 seconds in. We were into this answer 20 seconds into the call. Now you're ready to do it.

>> Go do it. >> We love you and we want you to have a great life. >> Yeah. >> You're not going to have a great life staying where you are. As a matter of fact, your life's going to go downhill pretty quick if you stay there. You know, in your deepest inside, God's spirit inside of you is telling you to get away from the evil.

He's telling you, listen to him. And

then we told you too, listen to us. Then there's the fact that two trust fund babies are stealing your alcohol and blaming you for it.

>> What how bad is that?

[Music]

[Music]

Buying or selling a home is a big deal.

And there's a lot of opinions out there about the real estate world.

If you don't believe me, just uh open up your social media. There's a lot of opinions. And opinions are like armpits.

Everybody's got them. And most of them stink. They really don't know what they're doing. Everybody's got an idea.

Some everybody's got a course on TikTok.

Everybody's got something you can get into. Listen here. When you got all this drama, one thing you know about drama, here's how you beat drama. Facts. Facts

are your friends. If you want to know the facts about real estate, you can

simply go to our website. We've got all the market trends on there. You can tell exactly what's going on and then you can make your decision. Are house prices going up? The answer is facts. Yes.

Not quickly, not a lot, but they are

going up. They've gone up every single month this year. That's a fact.

Interest rates are low.

The average 15-year fixed rate is 15 is

5.95 right now. In any stretch of

history, 6% or less has been considered a low interest rate. It's just tough for it to be a low interest rate when you're coming off of two and three.

And some of you still have a recent memory of that. So, it makes it feel like it's high. It ain't high. High is

14. High is 10, 12. This is not high.

So, you can start to figure this out and look at actual trends. Go to ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes and we'll get you helped out. Colin is with us in Missouri. Hey Colin, what's up?

>> Well, uh, so my grandmother that I haven't really

talked to in years that's been estranged from my father and I'm recently estranged from him and all that. Uh, just recently offered the other day to pay off my credit card debt. Uh, never told her how much. Just told her I was going through your steps to get out of debt.

And uh, she said, "Oh, well, I'll help you so you don't got to pay interest. I'll pay off your credit cards for you. Pay me back." And I'm over here like, >> I don't feel comfortable taking money from her. >> I would take it if it was a gift, but it's not a gift.

>> Yeah, it's a loan. It's a loan.

>> No, thank you. I'll pass.

>> Yeah. >> So, aranged and aranged and aranged.

There's a lot of estranged going on in your family. The last thing you need to be doing is owing one of them money.

>> Yeah. And that's kind of how I felt. Not only just for the fact that um I'm not sure how tough she's going to be on uh

making me pay back this debt to her, but just I don't personally feel comfortable taking money for family. Well, I mean, if if she has $2 million and wants to give you $25,000 to pay off your credit card debt as a gift, we'll talk about it. That's fine. That's one thing. No strings attached. But you're this is not that. This is you loaning money. No, we do not loan money to family. We do not borrow money from family. You will change the quality of the relationship.

And you guys have trouble with quality of relationship in your family anyway.

>> Yeah. >> Don't add to the charact. I mean, you you've actually reestablished a relationship with this lady that you have hardly ever known. And and don't ruin that.

>> Yeah. >> Do you still have doubts about this?

>> Uh I mean, I never really considered for more than like 3 seconds for Okay.

>> Well, then your voice sounds like you're like, "Yeah, well, maybe." >> That's what I'm picking up on. Are you afraid to tell her no thanks?

kind of knew it. I knew it.

>> Yeah, but here's the deal. >> My parents, >> let me help you through >> I'm sorry to cut you off. Let me Let me help you with this. Okay.

You just need to say, "Grandmother," or whatever you call her, um, I really appreciate that, but I I need to take care of this myself. I got into this mess. I need to get myself out of this mess. Dave and his team are going to help me get out of this mess and I'm reestablishing this relationship with you and I just don't think it's a good idea for me to be in debt to you when I'm already in debt over here.

>> All right.

>> And by the way, let me say this and I want Dave to weigh in here. I She may not like that, but I doubt it. I think she's making this gesture because I think she wants some reparation. She wants to repair and I think she's trying to make a good gesture here and I think she'll be okay with that. Dave, do you see a problem with that approach?

>> No, it's the only way I would do it. I think you just go in kindness and say this is me. It's not you, it's me.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I can tell I need to pay off

my debt because of the way I feel and the guy I look at in the mirror, Granny.

But thank you, Granny. You're very sweet. I appreciate the offer. It's very kind of you. It's kind of hard to pass up, but I'm going to >> because I need to do this for me.

>> What Ken said and just blame it on you.

And that's the truth, by the way, too.

>> But the last thing you need is weirdness between family that already has its old boatloads of weirdness.

>> Aranged and aranged and aranged and then not aranged and then aranged. There's a lot of strange. And so, yeah, just stay stay away from it. And that's a you know, don't don't muddle this up. Um,

so, um, yeah, and

>> I think she'll receive that. Well, I I >> And if she doesn't, then that's another signal matter. That's right. >> That's another signal that you shouldn't have done it. >> Yeah. >> The last thing you want to do is be, you know, owing money to people that get weird when you start talking about money. So, it's a bad idea.

>> Megan's in Vermont. Hey, Megan. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank you so much. Um, so my husband

and I are on Baby Step 2. We started off at $200,000 in debt. We're at $172,000

in debt as of now. I need some help with

my car situation. So, I'm a road warrior. I do 60,000 m a year, and my

car is unfortunately out of service.

It's It's not fixable at this point. So, I'm borrowing my mother-in-law's extra car for the time being. But I'm wondering with the amount of mileage that I do and how much I'm on the road, what is the best way for me to go about purchasing a a new vehicle that's going to be reliable?

>> You guys don't have any money?

>> No, we're throwing everything in our debt. >> And you're down to $1,000. You're doing it the way we teach.

>> Yes. >> What's your household income?

>> It's 250,000.

>> Excellent. Okay. All right. That's good news. What do you do?

>> I am a home repair salesman.

>> Okay. Excellent. Okay, cool. All right.

Um, how long can you use this borrowed car?

A month, two months.

>> I um probably six weeks. I'm on week two

right now. >> Okay. Another month then. Okay.

>> Yes. >> All right. Um well, I'm going to tell you what to do. Uh, and then I'm going to tell you what to do long term, okay?

And how to think about this is here's here's the thing, okay? So, first thing I would do is answer your question. Let's let the let the pressure off.

>> Um, I would stop your debt snowball

and save up $10,000 in one month and pay

cash for a $10,000 car.

>> Okay. >> All right. And what you're looking for is a car that is ugly and low miles and

has a lot of life left in it. An old Camry, an old Honda, Accord. Um maybe an old Chevy of some

kind. Um but that's what you're looking for. Something that's got a lot of life left in it, but it's not pretty. Cuz no

one buys home repairs from you based on your car.

>> That's true. >> Okay. Now then, let's talk about a principle for road warriors. For everyone listening, including you, whatever you Let's pretend you've got unlimited money and you're out of debt.

We're a couple of months or years down the road from this discussion.

I think it's fair to say that when you put $60,000 60,000 m a year on a car, whatever you are driving, you are destroying its value.

Agreed.

>> Absolutely. >> Miles destroys a car's value. That's a fact. That's a statistical fact. Okay.

So, a 2-year-old car with 120,000 miles on it, piece of crap. All right. A foury old car with 240,000 miles on it has got no value. You've rung all the value out of it.

So, what the question is, how and when you destroy the value of a car, you're destroying the value of what you paid for. And so, from a business perspective, what you want to drive is the least expensive car that will get the job done. Now, let's define get the job done. It's got to get there, number one.

Number two, it's got to get there with reliability. And number three, it's got to get there with a reasonable level of comfort. So, you're not driving a freaking Dodge Neon. You'll be in the chiropractor's office.

Okay.

the cheapest car that's reliable and

reasonably comfortable? Cuz I'm in it all the time. And that's a 12 to $15,000

car. And I don't care what you're making or how rich you are. That's all you ought to be driving. Cuz if you buy a $50,000 car, a $100,000 Escalade, you're

going to destroy $100,000 in 3 years.

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[Music]

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debtree stage, Lee and Liz are with us.

Hey guys, how are you >> doing? Great. Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. Where do you live? >> Tampa, Florida. >> Oh, fine. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off?

>> $260,781.51.

>> Love it. How long did that take? Just about six years to the day.

>> Cool. And your range of income during that time? >> We started at 181,000. Our best year was

215,000 and then I became a stay-at-home mom when our son was born and we ended up at about 133,000.

>> Cool. Very cool. Good for y'all. What do y'all do for a living? >> Uh Lee is a police officer and I was a certified nurse midwife and now I'm a >> stay at home mom. I love it. Very cool.

Good. Good. Good. So 6 years 261. Did you pay off your house? >> We did. We did. I love it. Looking at weird people. Very cool, y'all. So,

what's the house worth? >> The house is worth $512,000.

>> Very cool. And how much is in your nest egg, your 401ks and stuff? >> About 570. >> Ah, millionaires. Woohoo. Baby steps

millionaires. I'm proud of you. How old are you two? >> 36. >> 36-y old millionaires in Tampa, Florida with a paid for house. Ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce you to Lee and Liz. Way to go, man.

>> Thank you. That's so fun. So fun.

Excellent. So, did somebody give you like $300,000?

>> No. >> No. No. You just went and got money and lived on less than you make and all that. So, uh, six years ago, tell me the story. What you How did you get introduced to this Ramsay stuff?

>> Well, we had been married and in our house for about a year and a half and

we were making a lot of money. We were making extra mortgage payments. we were investing, doing a lot of different things all at once, but didn't have any shared goal or or vision. And then Lee

found the podcast and listened to the

audio book of the Total Money Makeover one night during one of his night shifts and came home and shared it with me. And I was really concerned that I I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, but I wasn't sure if we would be able to do it with the mortgage payment. And so, we got on board. We were we were doing some dumb stuff like chasing credit card points and paying it off every payday. So, we quit doing that.

Got on a written budget and started attacking the mortgage and and the bulk of it was paid off in the first three years. And then when I stayed home and um left my my, you know, six-f figureure job, >> it slowed down, but even still, we we surpassed our goal by about 13 months.

>> Wow. Good for you. Well done. So your

big motivator, your why was for you to be home. >> That was our plan all along.

>> That's why we scratched, clawed, and did all the things we did, right? >> Yes, sir. Overnights, night shifts, overtime, extra duty, whatever we could pick up at the time, we just did it.

There were some days where somebody was always asleep and we would cook >> or we were both at work. >> Or we both at work, we would high-five and then, you know, one of us would leave and the other one would leave shortly thereafter. So, we just worked >> all so we'd be home. That's a good It's a good why.

>> Yes, sir. >> It's a good reason. You got to have something that is bigger than the pain to make you go do it cuz you sacrifice deep. >> It's hard to believe that as a police officer for 13 years, 10 of that was on night shift or swing shift.

So, here we are.

>> No sir. >> You're a millionaire. >> Yes. >> So, you get to work the shift you want to work. >> Yes, sir. And you've been there long enough, you probably do get to choose now. >> That's correct. >> Yeah. I love it. Very good. Very good.

And you got the shift you want, which is mommy shift. >> 247. >> There you go, babe. I love it. That's good. Very good. So, I want I think a lot of people listening and watching going, "How in the world did you walk away from a six-figure job and still

finish?" I want you two to answer this.

I think some people going, "How'd you do it?" So, how'd you still finish ahead of schedule when you lost that big income?

>> The grace of God. I think um anytime we

were we were worried it was like the budget just made sense by the end of the month. Um and and

I had paid off some of my nursing school loans before we got married and then went to grad school debtree. So if you're a nurse out there thinking you want to become a nurse practitioner, you can absolutely do it without going into debt. Um and that helped a lot knowing

that anything that I earned was going towards the mortgage.

Yeah, there will be some months where we would we have a goal the to pay it to

pay down the mortgage and then we would surpass that. We would say, "Okay, let's do X." And we would do double that because of just either the paychecks would come in or just all the work like I forgot how much we worked. And then the paycheck would show up two weeks later on a Friday and you would go, "Well, I guess we're doing more." >> By the way, signs you know you're working really hard is you forgot how much you made.

That's a great sign. You're like, "Wow, I actually worked a lot last month." >> And and when we first got started, we were like, "Man, every dollar is not for us. We have an irregular income. We get paid every two weeks. It's not lining up on the the monthly budget." So, if you're out there and struggling with the same thing, just just stick with it.

Give it a couple months. Keep practicing. keep plugging away and chunk up those big balances because when you're doing a big mortgage or a consolidated loan or something like that, every year we would look at our plan and say by the end of the year we want x number on that balance sheet on

New Year's Eve and some years we made it. One year I totaled our car so we had to cash flow it and we didn't make it that month.

>> One year we made it by July.

>> Yeah. So >> that's fun. >> So uh how's it feel? paid for house.

You're millionaires. You're 36 years old. >> It's pretty cool. Um it's it's surreal

still. >> Was it worth it? >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Because you guys went crazy for a while.

>> Yeah. >> It's awesome.

>> Yeah. Cuz people always ask us, you know, I don't know, man. I think I want to live my life. Well, you could do anything you want for the rest of your life now. >> And we also we also did live life, too.

I mean, being on baby steps four, five, and six and doing those simultaneously and following the program, we were still able to cash flow home repairs, go on vacation and do the things you talk about when you're on those baby steps.

And so we we did it and just stuck to

the plan. Pretty cool. Was that the breakers in the picture?

>> The dances are >> Oh, okay. Okay. Thought I couldn't tell.

Just got a quick look on it when it flashed in front of my peripheral vision there, but yeah. Wow. Good for y'all.

Nice vacation. Good, good, good for you.

Wow. What do you tell people? The key to

being a millionaire by the time you're 36 is >> being consistent, being content, and

working hard together, even if you're not seeing a lot of each other.

>> Yeah. >> Also, the tracking your net worth was big for us because yes, you can see some of the debt going away on the house, but then you would also we would also see our net worth rise. And so and having a goal, we would like to have X by the end of the year. And once again, sometimes >> because you're simultaneously paying off the house and putting money into your 401k.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Because you're doing baby step four, five, six. Yeah.

Which is what you're supposed to do.

>> And it and it helps me because I'm the natural spender. So it helps me to kind of see the end. It was hard in the beginning for me to see $260,000.

So I was like, "Well, I'll just work hard at the end." And she told me, "No, you should work hard now because it will in the end it will literally fall off a cliff." >> Yeah. >> And that's what it did. >> Yeah. >> Wow. I love it. You just learned to say yes, dear. That's such a great example there. >> Uh what did you guys learn about each other in your marriage as a result of this serious commitment?

>> I think how much we are willing to sacrifice for each other and and how much humility we we can have. Uh, and

just choosing that over and over again.

>> Yeah, I'm proud of y'all and I know your parents are here bragging on you and cheering you on. I got to meet them earlier and you brought the kiddos with you. Bring them up. Let's introduce them with their ages and names. The reason for doing this, they need the t-shirts that say I'm the why. I'm why they did

this. Oh my goodness. So, names and

ages. >> We have uh John Edwin who's uh two and a half. >> Mhm. >> And Maggie who's uh 11 months. Ah, so

they're too young to even know how big a hero their parents are. You're old man and old lady Vanderbilt. You got the whole thing started right here. That's awesome, man. I'm proud of y'all. Well done. Very well done. You changed everything.

Very cool. Very cool. Very cool. All right, Lee and Liz. 261,000 paid off in

six years, including putting money in their 401k. They are now baby steps millionaires at 36. Count it down. Let's

hear a debtree scream.

>> Three, two, one. We're debtree.

>> Yeah.

Woohoo.

>> Love it. Aren't they fun? What rock

stars, man? Absolutely amazing.

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Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 30:21.

Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you saying, "This is the way. Walk in

it." JP Morgan said, "The first step towards getting somewhere is to decide you're not going to stay where you are." That would be true. There we go. Tyler is in Reno, Nevada. Hey, Tyler. What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. Um, so I'm just going to just uh kind of jump right into it. Um, recently lost my job back in the middle of July. Uh we used our our emergency

safety fund that we had to make sure bills are covered and such. My question is uh >> you used your emergency fund for what?

>> For uh like our other utility bills and

such to catch up on. We were a little bit behind.

And so my question is um my 401k from my

previous job now since I I got fired. Do

I withdraw my 401k to cover the other

debt that we have?

>> No. >> Or should I not?

>> No. If you withdraw money from a 401k

before 59 and a half, you're going to be charged a 10% penalty plus your tax

rate. And so you're going to be charged the equivalent of about 40% interest. So

Dave, would I borrow money at 40% interest to pay off my debt? Of course, the answer would be no. So mathematically that is suicide. So how's

the new job hunt going?

>> It's going good. Um, right now I I

currently serve for the Army National Guard. So my leadership was able to put me on orders to keep income coming for my family and I which thanks to them that it it is helping a little bit. Um other than that the the biggest thing that is wanting to was wanting to do the

withdraw is our car loan. Um which we

still have a pretty good amount of balance and I just wasn't sure whether >> What's the balance on your car?

Uh about $7,000 left.

>> That's not bad. Okay. So, what does the They put you on orders. What does that how much money does that amount to?

>> Uh every two weeks it's roughly 2,200.

>> Okay. >> Does that preclude you from doing anything else?

>> Uh no. I mean, I typically it's like a

um full-time job with the Army National Guard, which the orders is only like

three month for 3 months only.

>> So, at the end of September, it's my last month that they will help me. And then from there, I I >> What Ken and I are trying to understand is they put you on 4,400 bucks a month, which is very nice. That's awesome. But you're going in and working every day at the Guard.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Oh, so you you have a full-time job until the orders run out in 3 months. >> Okay. >> Correct. >> So, you're going to go get a job, right, for the end of September? >> Yeah.

Yes. I I've actually applied for a few jobs. I'm just uh waiting to hear back.

Uh there is one in particular that I am hoping to uh get more than anything. Uh

cuz it's it's right around the corner from where we live and uh the pay rate

is actually pretty decent. that would help us keep afloat. I just wasn't sure to make a drastic move now or kind of hold off.

>> What What would be the drastic move?

>> The 401k with >> Oh, we've already established. No, we're not doing that. That's not a drastic move. That's a dumb move.

>> Okay. Now, >> what were you doing that got that that you where you were fired? What were what work? >> What happened?

Uh I was in a manufacturer warehouse and

had a forklift incident which bent a

pole and uh from there on I got

suspended from the job. Waited cuz they do like a the um the urination test and

breathalyzer just like you know normal policy job normally does. And uh from

there I was suspended, waited for about a week and a half and then when the time

came they called me say I was terminated from the incident and never really give me a more depth.

>> So there were drugs there were drugs in your system.

>> No, not at all.

>> Okay. So you're just ran a forklift into a pole and they don't do that from a safety perspective. They fired you.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Cool. What were you making?

>> Uh, I was making I mean total cuz I

worked a lot of overtime over there. So I was at around 77,000 a year.

>> Okay. And how long have you been driving a forklift?

>> Five and a half years. >> Okay. And one incident.

>> Yes. >> What happened? Give us a short version.

>> That's a little weird. >> Yeah. Just just one mistake. You weren't paying attention. What happened?

It simply was just a Yeah, it was simply just a mistake. I was just exiting out the uh rollup door at the half at the warehouse and checking my left and right as I normally do and as soon as I started accelerate, I just turned a little bit while looking at the same time and right into a pole from there on

suspended me and then ended up firing me. >> Well, the reason I'm digging into this is because you know there you can get paid really nicely and you were getting made uh you were making good money. I I would get back into that field if I could. I don't know what this thing is around the corner. That would be ideal.

But I would I would be looking at multiple options in that space where you had experience before. >> Yeah. If you have the ability to operate heavy equipment, there is a tremendous shortage of heavy equipment operators.

>> And so, you know, I'd be looking in the bulldozer backhoe world as well as the forklift world. Um there's a tremendous shortage. Mike Row, our friend from Dirty Jobs and I were talking about the other day. >> He said he's got one guy in uh Phoenix that would hire 22 people right now today, >> but he can't find them. >> Yep. >> That that have oper, you know, have experience and can uh you know, run a piece of equipment. In other words, that's the thing. So that that's what I'm looking for there.

>> And um so yeah, you just need to get the next thing lined up. As far as the 401k goes, Tyler, what you're going to do is get with a Smart Vesttor Pro. will go to ramseysolutions.com, click smartvester and sit down with the one there in Reno or one of the ones there in Reno and uh

they'll have the heart of a teacher and they'll show you how to roll it over from your old job into an IRA. There

will be zero taxes. You pick a couple of three mutual funds like we teach, four types of mutual funds, growth, growth, and income, aggressive growth, and international. And you roll it into that. You only have a $7,000 debt. Don't

borrow money at 40% interest, which is the effect of taking money out of your 401k and getting a 10% penalty plus tax rate. So, don't do it. Roll it over.

It's called a direct transfer rollover.

Do not have the old company send you the check. Have it go straight to the investment. They do not withhold. If they send it to you, they're required to withhold 20%. Now, you don't have 100% to roll over. It creates a problem. So,

um, get with your Smart Investor Pro today. Jump on that website today.

RamseySolutions.com.

Get your Smart Vtor. They'll help you do a do a direct transfer. Write that down.

Direct transfer rollover. But do it before HR sends you a check from that other place because you don't want them sending you a check. You want the check sent by direction of the new IRA

directly into the IRA. That's the direct part >> of this transfer. And the other thing I would challenge you with, Tyler, is you mentioned you were working some overtime, a lot of hours at this previous job. So, let's go.

You've got the National Guard paying you every hour you can work. I would set a goal to try to pay this 7,000 off uh before you're done with your guard duty this next mission. I think that's doable and it's certainly even if it's not, you're going to get a long way there. But you can do this with extra work selling stuff.

Uh no reason why you shouldn't be able to knock that seven grand out. >> Yeah.

wife is working. If not, she could be as well. So uh there's no reason for us to be have a shortage of money in this house. You're make enough uh with your guard duty and with whatever else you can do and then leaning into the next job and moving right ahead.

There's no reason for you to be behind on utilities again. So um changes your life when you stay in control of these things. Very, very good question, sir. Sorry you've been through that.

Sounds like you're going to be okay. might end up being a blessing. You might end up making more at the next gig.

They could put a little sticker on it says Tyler was here. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat.

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## 144. Stop Being Sick And Tired—Decide to Change! | December 8, 2025


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Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start [music] budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke, common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your

life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds [music] Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman, Jade Warshaw is alongside.

888-825-5225

is [music] the phone number for 888-825-5225.

Your money questions, Jade is ready to go. She stretched beforehand, I'm told.

>> I did. >> Got a little energy drink, so she'll help you on those. I'll assist. And then, Ramsey just did a new study, Jade,

and in my area of things on work, and we're finding that uh the two biggest areas of problems for folks in the workspace is burnout >> Uh-huh. and a lack of life balance around work. So, Are we going to talk about that today? >> If that is you, folks, you can call in, and I'll dive in on that.

So, there you go. Money, the burnout, the life balance issues as it relates to your professional life. They all tie in, by the way. >> I think you need to dive in regardless if anybody calls in.

>> those questions, and let's start with Lars in Eugene, Oregon.

you, sir? I am doing well. How are you, Ken?

>> Good. How can we help today?

Um I'm wondering what gazelle intensity looks like for me when I have massive debt and okay income and a pretty pretty

full family life where I feel very busy.

Mhm. >> Why don't you lay out the debt, and then we'll get into the family schedule.

Yeah, so I'm in 156,000 of debt. Vast majority student loans, plus about 4,400 left on a silly van payment.

Okay. So, other than the 4,400, is everything else student loans?

Yes. Okay. Okay, yeah, that feels scary.

$152,000, is that right?

156. Yes. Oh, 52 the loans, yeah.

>> 4,400 student loans, yeah. What kind of degree did you get?

I have a master's in math. In math, okay. What's that allow you to do? You teach at a university level?

Um I'm a I'm a data analyst. Okay. Okay.

And how long have you been at your current company?

1 month. Oh, good.

>> for a while before that. >> Okay, so this is a new job, and I'm guessing a raise with that?

Yes. Yes. Good. Okay. Feel rich making

75,000 a year now.

Okay, and what's your wife do?

She's a stay-at-home mom. Okay. All right. Now, let's talk about the um because your question is, what does gazelle intensity look like for me uh given all the family stuff. So, we've got a picture of the debt. What is the family stuff you're talking about? What's the schedule? What is what is the sense or the reality of what

is expected of you from a relational standpoint in the family?

>> Sure. Yeah, so I have two kids ages three and one and another on the way in March. Um and the oldest has cerebral palsy, so

she's always in different physical therapies and everything. Uh we we tried my wife working and doing daycare, but that just wasn't working with all of his needs, so I go work full-time and come home and try to help help around Cuz she's Describe Describe how your wife uh is

feeling or how she presents to you after you've been at work all day and she's at home. What's that like when you come in?

You know, she is incredible. I admire

her so much, um but she's struggling a lot with >> Yeah. just the normal routine of taking care of kids and um all the the doctor and insurance nonsense she deals with. She's she's pretty scattered by the end of the day and tired. >> All right, that's where I'm going with this. So, tell us what a good routine is. In other words, you know that she feels seen, loved, supported. Uh give me

what it looks like of the rest of the night. So, you're coming home, no matter what time, but you come in after normal work day, and and describe very quickly, cuz I'm going somewhere with this, what's happening when you step in or what what is a healthy activity for you?

Yeah, so uh it's usually either wrapping up a nap time and kind of working into it's into dinner time when I get home.

So, it's usually okay for me to take maybe 5 or 10 minutes to myself to go change and take care of business, and then I uh and then I jump in and start trying to help with dinner and and the the work of the evening. >> Right. And bedtime for every Bedtime for everybody is what?

Uh 7:30. I mean, okay, got you, for the kiddos.

And what what about then what happens after 7:30?

Then we go uh decompress for an hour or two before I go to bed. Okay. So, watching TV or whatever. >> Well, that's important to know because uh the reality is is that uh your income going up will, through a side hustle, right, or contract work, given your technical skills, uh certainly could help you get out of debt faster.

But, realistically, you know, I I'm not going to to spend more time on walking through your weekend schedule. But, Jade, where I'm going with this is there is where I'm trying to take him is there's a certain amount of time that you may or may not have.

>> All right. So, instead of the details, cuz we want to walk through. I want to get Jade back in here um on realistically what the baby steps and the timeline looks like. But, before I hand it to her, Lars, here's what you need to hear from me. The reason I walked you through that scenario, that was really for you, not the larger audience.

But, I want you to realize, okay, what do I really have? Mhm. Cuz your wife is in a tough That's that's a That's an exhausting situation. Yeah.

>> And uh you're doing Sounds like you're doing a great job. So, what my recommendation would be is what is the block of time in a normal week? We're not talking about, you know, when craziness happens and life throws curveballs at us all. But, in a normal week, is there a 5-hour block? Is there

a 10-hour block? Outside of what you just described to me, right? So, that would have to be after decompressing with the wife, uh you know, 2 or 3 hours, it's going to bed later, maybe getting up earlier, uh trying to carve some time out on the weekends. I don't know if that's possible, and you don't have to respond to that. But, your exercise is, how many hours a week Mhm. could I Mhm. could I

give to making additional money for the purposes of doing what Jade's going to walk me through. So, that's your homework assignment. Uh but, Jade, let's walk him through realistic like I'd love for him to walk out here with a timeline when we think he can get out of debt, and that'll help him, I think, have a finish line. >> Yeah, I think for me, when I'm listening to you talk, I'm I'm going to give you the the tactical tools and money part of this, but I think I need you to know going in that much of what you're going to struggle with is not going to be the math.

But, because of what you're up against uh with the the special needs of the children, your wife being stay-at-home, you having this new job for the first time and feeling the stress and demands of that, navigating that new schedule, there's so much going on that's new, and you have the new baby coming in in March. It's going There are going to be so many opportunities for your emotions to take over. When that new baby comes, you're going to be tired, and you're going to be overwhelmed. And when you start crunching the numbers, the frustration is going to set in when you look at the timeline.

know, what we're going to be up against and what we're going to be facing.

And so, for you, what I would do is simple. I would, on the math side, I

would jump into EveryDollar, and I would just complete the road map, just so you can see, okay, with the money I have in my hand, how long is this going to take?

And then I would jump onto the digital coaching side of EveryDollar, because it's literally going to allow you to plug everything about your situation in, and it's going to show you, here's how much margin you're going to have every single month to to throw at this debt.

And when you have those real numbers, that is going to help you get a clear picture, not only of the timeline, but what it's going to take to accomplish that. Then, when you add side hustles to it, of course, it's going to go faster.

But, understand, this is going to be an emotional fight for you. So, knowing ahead of time, hey, you're going to need to do those daily habits of jumping into EveryDollar, you and your wife need to set up regular rewards, because this is a long journey ahead of you. So, sit ahead of time and say, when we pay off this debt, every time we pay off X amount of dollars, here's what we're going to do to celebrate, because the the celebration is what's going to keep you going. I wish we had longer to talk.

>> But, here's what we're going to do. We're going to get you Stay on the line. Chris is going to get you into EveryDollar, our gift, and I'm going to give you Jade's brand new book, which addresses what you're going to go through, what no one tells you about money. Hang on.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But, there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.

Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it.

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>> [music]

>> All right, we're going to Rhonda next in Phoenix. Rhonda, how can we help today?

Hi Dave, thanks for taking my call. I am a mom of three, and I'm 36 weeks pregnant with our fourth baby.

Wow. Um, my husband makes about 70,000.

I left my job earlier this year that was full-time to homeschool our daughter, our oldest daughter, and I still work part-time making about 30,000.

Um, we are just with the consistent medical expenses, our um kids are all under five, so it's been um pretty hefty the past five years.

Yeah, bless you.

So, um we are having a hard time

first of all, keeping up month to month, but let alone getting an emergency fund in place. It seems like it keeps getting wiped out.

With medical expenses or mostly medical expenses, yeah. >> the $1,000 you're trying to save or 3 to 6 months you're trying to save?

The thousand, so we're on step one.

Um we'll get out of some debt, and then ultimately the kids' health comes first, so if the credit card's available, we'll have to go back to that. We really avoid that. We'll usually use the emergency fund.

Obviously that's what it's for, so.

>> you ever been able to get it to a thousand, or is it's like we get to 300 and it's just gone? Yeah, we'll get it to a thousand. We sometimes will have more, especially after a tax refund or something. Uh-huh.

Um because emergencies don't cost usually a thousand. They tend to be like more. So, the good news is what you're saying, you're right. Usually they're not thousand-dollar emergencies.

They're smaller than that, which means a lot of this actually, Rhonda, could be how you're budgeting. And I think that that's the good news. I think that we're we're going to be able to fix this. >> Let me jump in for a second, cuz I thought I heard something.

Rhonda, did you say most of your emergencies are more than a thousand?

Yes, considering that um we

um they've been births mostly and or

medical expenses. Okay, I misheard that.

Um But I still think where you were going is the same issue.

>> Well, yeah, it it is. >> those births are coming. >> It is the same issue, and I'm glad that you said that. So, let's talk about not just to you, Rhonda, but for anybody listening who's in your shoes. When we think about an emergency, it has to be it has to meet criteria to be an emergency. Number one, it's going to be something that's completely unexpected.

Like I had no idea this is coming. I It's a flat tire on the side of the road, right? And then it needs to be something that's urgent. Like if I don't get this done immediately, like today,

then we we're not eating. Like that sort of thing. And then it has to be necessary. I must do this. It's not an option. It's not something that I could not do, right? And so, those three boxes

must all be checked. It can't just check one, Ken. All three of them must be checked. >> Hit those again really quick, big off. >> It's got to be unexpected, it's got to be urgent, and it's got to be necessary.

All of those things. >> really good. >> Okay. So, for you, let's talk about birth.

Obviously, we know I mean, we got nine months to plan for it, so >> [laughter] >> that's kind of how that works. Obviously it's spilt milk, and I'm not making fun of you, but >> Yeah. going forward, we know that. And just for anybody listening, when if you're walking the baby steps, if you're doing any sort of plan for your money, if you know that you're getting pregnant, you need to stop everything and stack up money.

And ideally, yeah, you want to get to your deductible, Ken, because you never know what's going to happen in that delivery room, and usually insurance will pay for everything up to the deductible. It's up to you, and then they'll pay for anything beyond that. So, going forward, you have this baby coming up. What is your deductible?

Yeah, so that's kind of This is the first time we're budgeting within our birth. So, they've all been kind of like, oops, okay, now let's recover. Um so, this is the first time I think we've been intentional about it. We are actually um uninsured. We do have like

um emergency insurance, and we do have

um like a medical program that we subscribe to to ensure that we have like acute care. >> Mhm. Um but all of our births are out of pocket in front, so we do home births, so everything is cash pay. And what does

it cost?

>> it's five grand um per birth. Um and

then all labs and stuff like that are additional. So, there is no deductible, and so if something comes up where

we have to ensure that the baby is, you know, like checked for something, that might be 250 here, 250 there, and it

kind of just ends up stacking pretty quickly. Mhm. Um When you've done this before, what's the most amount of money you've gotten in with?

Gone into the birth? >> Uh-huh. Like how What's the most you've ever had stacked up to pay for a birth?

Um 6,500.

6,500. And then how much over did you go over the 6,500 in reality?

We probably just met that. Um once you take on like into consideration if we didn't um need to spend on medical expenses, if that could be forwarded into a maternity leave cushion, cuz I don't get paid on maternity leave.

What I'm trying to understand, let me tell you where I'm going with this. What I'm trying to understand is what have you needed in the past that you didn't have that caused you to either A, go into debt or pull money that you weren't

supposed to be pulling from?

Um just the essentials, and I think it's been for planning previously. Now it's obviously not that as much. Um

But uh a safer home, we were not living in a safe area, and then it became like, you know, food. When food got more expensive, that became a little bit harder. Um and so, I I don't have an extraordinary expense that ends up dropping on us. It's just the I think it's a we're on defense instead of on offense in this in the process. Okay, so I'm >> That is a good self-analysis. I'm hearing a couple things. So, A, we're going to continue to save for the baby.

Save 7,000 bucks. Are you on track to be able to save that?

We've paid everything out that needs to be paid. Um we do not have any cushion right now. I'm selling a bunch of stuff around the house um for that cushion. Good. Um And what does it

What's it What's it take to operate your normal monthly budget? Aside from the birth, just keep everything running, keep lights on, keep rent, all of that stuff.

What's that cost? 7K. 7K.

>> Does that include the debt payments?

That does include debt. It does?

It does include debt. >> Okay. Okay, so there's your minimum payments on debt. So, 7K. If you if you came into the month of delivery, and you

had the money you need for operating cost, and then you had the 7K that you need for the birth, or you've already shelled it out, or however it works, tell me then what the issue would be.

Are you telling me, "Hey Jade, what we really need is In the past we've done 7K, but probably what we really need is closer to 9K." Is that what you're telling me?

Um no, I think our birth is covered. I know our bills are covered for this month. I think where we're at and where we're nervous is we've been so back and forth in the hole, back out of the hole, in the hole, out the hole, >> Right. that moving into this process, we have four weeks left until the baby comes, and then we're going to have a few weeks where I can't make income, and

we don't want to be back in that hole.

So, we're trying to not be on the defense. I mean, it's kind of late, right? So, we are still, but we're trying to be more ahead of it, so that we don't end up That's where I'm saying.

>> again. That's where I'm saying. Tell me how you're late if you told me that you've paid for all the costs of the birth. That's what I'm getting at.

It because this this has got to be a simple equation. It's we either feel like we have enough money or we don't have enough money. So, if you're telling me, "Hey, we've paid for the birth," but you also in a previous sentence said, "But other little things pop up." My first thing, Ken, is, "Well, if we've usually saved six or seven, let's save Let's try to get that number higher." >> Yeah.

Jade's right, but very simply and practically, do you have enough income that if you were budgeting properly, you guys would be okay? Yes or no?

I think we probably need to reevaluate our um budget. Somehow I don't see where the margin can come from, but we don't have margin. Okay. All right.

So, that's good. So, second question, and and I we're going to give you one session with the financial coach as our baby gift to you, because we're not going to be able to go into the nitty-gritty, but I think they you they will help you get the answer to that question, all right?

Right, yes. Um my car is

um a newer car that we purchased because all of our car seats can't fit in my previous car, and I we do need some way to transport the kids. >> What did you spend on that car? What did you spend on that new car?

We have it looped into a subsidized loan. The subsidized loan is $33,000. I would say 20,000 of that is a personal loan. Okay. >> Um so my previous car was a subsidized

um personal loan kind of put together with our car. And so then when we bought the new car, the the new car cost absorbed that subsidized loan.

Okay, tell you what we're going to do. We're actually going to do a little deeper dive on this. So we're going to hold you over, go to a little radio commercial, but we're going to hang on to you. So hold on. We're going to dive in this and we're going to show you how you guys get out of this. This is not as difficult as you think.

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All right. So we're talking Rhonda in Phoenix. And Rhonda, I want to bring you back in here.

Okay, so we got to get tactical really quick. Yes. Um we won't Jade, take over

here. But we just all we're looking for Rhonda is numbers in your debt. All right? We want to go smallest to largest. >> out for Jade. >> So I need two things. Rhonda, you told me your husband's making 70,000 a year.

So are you taking home about 4,800 somewhere around there from him?

Yes. And then what's your part-time pay right now? What do you take in home?

Um I'm about 22 to 25. I'm an

independent contractor, so it just changes. So as it is, yeah, you guys you said it takes $7,000 to make your budget. As it is, you're like squeaking by. So when you stop working, I'm seeing that you're going to have yeah, a deficit of around 2,200, 2,123,

somewhere there. Feel right?

Right. >> Okay, so that's what we're concerned about. So the debt, we can talk about the debt and we're going to give you a plan for that. But I want you to I just want to front-load that by saying that's not your concern until after the baby is born. Right now, the concern is saying, "Okay, we're going to have a 2,100

dollar deficit come March and we think that that's going to last for X amount of number of months, right?" Yes. So how

many months do you think that that deficit is going to go on that you won't be working? I only plan to take like max 4 weeks off

because of this. Like I can't have the debt for that long. Um Okay, so I want to err on the side of caution and say if you plan on four, let's plan on eight, right? Let's let's double it because you never know. So that means we've got to find an extra $4,300 somewhere to kind

of bridge that gap. Does that feel right? Yeah. Okay. So now we have a

clear goal. We need to find $4,300. That

money is to bridge the gap. Now, how do we find the money? For you, you're very

very pregnant. But for your husband, this is a lot of extra time working.

This is I'm picking up whatever side hustle I can. I heard you say earlier that you were selling things. Keep doing that. Now let's turn over and look at the debt because there might be some quick wins there that will help us find the money. Ken, the car. Yeah, so I the car Let's the car that you had to have because of the car seats. How much did you pay for it?

Um on the lot, it was a used. So we got it for 10.

It's an SUV.

Um but with the loan, it came out to 33.

How did that happen? How did you go from 10 to 33 on one car?

If it the sticker price was 10.

Right. Our previous car, we still owed on. So we I think I we owed about 4 grand. And then we took out a $15,000 loan. So we owed with interest when it

rolled over to be on top of the other car, it just added that >> Oh Lord have mercy.

>> I'm missing one. The car was 10. You had 4,000 in negative equity. Still that's 14. How did you get to Where'd the other 15 come from?

Sorry, my first car we owed 4 grand. We

needed money. So we got a subsidized loan and the item that we used was that car that was not paid off.

They absorbed that first car's $4,000

remaining. It actually doesn't matter.

You have a $33,000 loan on a $10,000

car. Which kills my entire coaching because it was like >> we were going to get you out of that car. >> "Go get you a $10,000 van." And you did.

All right. So >> What else do you have? Anything? I My stomach hurts. Um my husband is a

teacher. So he'll have about two to three weeks off during the holiday break and he's already agreed to pick up like a temporary positions delivering packages to try and offset some stuff. >> Okay. So what's Do you know what that's going to earn?

We're hoping somewhere between two and three. Okay, so you're partially to your goal because he's going to continue to get his salary through the break, correct? Right. Correct.

>> Okay, so that's great. You're partially to your goal. Now that's the that's just the making the budget work extra money.

Do you need Do we need to add that extra money to that for the birth?

And be be realistic here.

Yeah, I don't believe so. We don't We haven't in the past, by the grace of God, had anything that comes up after birth. Okay. healthy for the baby's healthy. So I'm anticipating that happens. If it does not happen, then that will be a different conversation. >> And And that's what I would do, Rhonda.

I There is like we It's not always sunny and 70, right? So let's plan for the what if scenario so we're ready. Let's start looking and saying, "Well, well, what would it cost if I ended up having to go from my home into the emergency room? What would it cost if I ended up having the baby and needed to, you know, be in the NICU for a little" Like let's do a little bit of research and dial down.

It's not We're not trying to do a self-fulfilling prophecy. We're just getting information so we can prep. I think doing that is going to give you a lot of peace. And those are your two main focuses.

Your husband to clear that gap by working and you to provide insight on the numbers for him. And I would just say this.

We're going to take care of you. We're going to give you the baby gift of a coaching session with financial coach.

And also I want to give away Jade's book, What No One Tells You About Money.

But I I last thing I'm going to say is your husband isn't just doing this during Christmas break.

In order to get out of this hole, Good, Ken. he's going to have to work 60, 70 hours a week for a while. And I hate that. And let me just >> But I'm just going to tell you you guys need more income, especially on this car problem cuz we can't get rid of the car.

So we're going to have to just dig, dig, dig. And it's going to take a while, but you can do it. So And what I like about this conversation is I You You hear the habit talk about hot mind, cold mind? Yes.

You're doing this in a cold mind right now, which is you're not deep in the emotions. You're on the outside of it and you're making clear decisions. Let me tell you, Ken, when that baby hits, all of a sudden that what you've said about side hustling and paying off the debt and da da da da da, that's going to want to fly out the window. So please remember this call, write it down, put it in a frame, put it on the refrigerator because when that baby hits, you're going to want to go the opposite direction.

But you made a decision today in the right frame of mind to to do the right thing.

>> issue. What is the key to getting out of this emotionally? I think what we just talked about, which is knowing it's coming and trying to make those decisions ahead of time, but also understanding, "Okay, what season am I entering into?" Yeah, a whole lot of just awfulness. >> Yeah, because you know, that this stuff it runs in the background of our lives without us being having the time to really get into it.

And so knowing it's there is a big help. All right. So that is just uh one of the reasons for those of you who are just stuck in an emotional place and it's tough. It's why you got to order Jade's new book.

Uh you can pre-order it right now for $24.99, get over $100 in free bonus items. ramseysolutions.com/store,

ramseysolutions.com/store.

What is somebody going to get out of this book? >> It's the check engine light for your money. Ooh. >> When you get in your car and you see the check engine light, Ken, what do you do?

You take it to the the mechanic and they >> up Greg. They run that diagnostic >> Yeah. and they give you the little code and tell you what's wrong. This is what that book does.

It is going to run a diagnostic on you emotionally and it's going to find out what's going wrong, what's been making things not run right for you. And then it's going to give you the code to fix it. And it's going to take you step by step to what you need to do. So it's a diagnostic and you need that because you've been stuck and you haven't known why.

>> What do you think um are top two or three? Yeah, I love a top five list. Okay. We don't have time for top five.

So I'm going to put you on the spot. Top three emotions, negative emotions, that our audience is facing in trying to get out of debt. I'm going to say frustration because with the baby steps, there's a lot of nuance and it's a lot to remember. It's a lot to think through.

Even though it sounds simple, I'm going to go with anger because of so many outside forces that are affecting our money, whether it be inflation, the housing market, administrations, the cost of insurance. All of those things that we didn't do, they're not our fault, but yet they're sitting here affecting our money.

When people choose to walk the baby steps, there is a fear of the unknown.

They they're not sure if I really sacrifice all of this, is it going to be worth it on the other side?

They don't know. And so there's that first initial step of faith, that kind of leap that you have to take. And a lot of people are afraid to take it. >> Yeah, I agree.

I think there's so many types of fear. Oh, and I talk about so many of them. You nailed the fear of the unknown. I think it's the biggest in any of our life.

But you know, it's sometimes it's just as simple as if you've heard Dave, if you hear one of us, but it's Dave the one that just gets he just [music] gets fierce and he starts going, you don't see the inside of a restaurant, rice and beans, beans and rice. It's so like I'm just afraid to dial my life back like that. There's a real fear to that. Like what are my kids going to say?

What is my spouse going to say?

change, radical change is fearful. So,

hey, we hear you. We've done it. We We're here for you.

So, we know what you're walking through. We're going to walk through it with you.

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Already then, today's question comes from Kate in Utah. She says my 15-year-old daughter recently started babysitting, which has been a great first job for her. If she wants to buy something like concert tickets, she has to pay for it. This has really helped her with budgeting and being responsible. In addition to what she earns, we provide her with spending money. Should we be putting that money into her bank account as an allowance or

should this be something she earns once a task is completed? Also, should we have her keep a set amount of minimum balance in her savings? Okay, so there's a couple of questions in here. We're talking about do we want allowance versus like paid wages, basically? Like

paid you know, you get a wage for a service kind of thing.

Um and do we kind of regulate how much

she needs to have in her account at all times? So, I really am I love the idea

of people working for money because that's the way it works in the real world, Ken.

Um and part of this is experience for me, too. I I never grew up on allowance, and so I don't even know what that is.

But I do know what it means to do a job and get paid for it. And I think there's a certain level of not only reality to that, but dignity to that. And I I mimic that at home with my kids. They unload the dishwasher. With my kids, there are certain chores that they do that is just you being a citizen in this household.

You don't get paid for it. It's just you being a good citizen. Those are things like making up your bed, keeping your room clean, that kind of thing. Then, there are chores that you do that you get paid for.

And so that's how they earn their money or maybe some people would call it allowance. So, I would implement something like that. There needs to be chores that she does in the house that are just shoe-in. But then there's other things that she can get paid for.

And when it comes to what you are telling her she needs to keep in her um savings, I would do I would just teach give, save, spend. So, whatever you have, you can give some of it, you can save a portion of it, and you can spend a portion of it.

decide what that portion is.

Yeah, the only thing I would add to this, and I don't know if this is going to be controversial, but Do it, Ken.

Come on, Dad. I really don't care.

Um I think you teach all of that. And I have. But I got one kid, and Jade knows

all three of my kids well. I got one kid who is He's saving, boy.

He He ain't letting go of that cash.

Dude's got thousands, >> [laughter] >> okay? From every every financial gift, little odd job he's ever had.

I got two other kids that don't have any money. >> Yeah. And I've taught them. I've taught them till I'm blue in the face, and guess who doesn't have a blue face today?

Me. Well, you don't you can't make them do it. >> That's what I would say. So, teach them, and then I think that life is the best teacher. And so, I've got one kid that just at some point is going to get tired of being broke.

And then the old man's a genius.

Uh so, I think as parents go, I think sometimes we we do a little too much teach, more importantly, model. Yeah. Yes.

>> say this is what Mom and I do, or this is what your father and I do. This is what I think you should do, and here's why. And then let it go.

>> Let it go. >> And just cuz cuz I'm telling you something, you got to learn it.

And it's not like teaching them to ride a bike, per se. It has It has some parallels. You can hold You can keep

your hands on the outside of the seat, but you got to let it Yeah. >> And then when they fall down and skin their knees, they start to learn to ride a bike. And so, they need to be broke. I mean, so broke it hurts.

Can I tell you >> So, there you go. I And you've got older kids. That's what you've got. They run the campaign. >> 18, and 17.

My kids are younger. >> it they're in it right now. And they need spending money.

Yeah, cuz they got gas and games and dates and They got all the things. Can I tell you about my 7-year-old? All right.

So, I told you the kids they get some

money that for doing things like unloading the dishwasher. And we were trying to teach my son uh if you want something, you have to save up your money for it, and that takes time. So, we finally we were finally able to get him to save up his money. He wanted a fish tank to buy a goldfish.

And so, he finally saved up the $22. He we went this weekend. Got him the the he got the tank, the little pineapple that goes in it, two goldfish. Don't you know the next morning one of them was dead?

AND I WAS LIKE I FELT so bad cuz he saved up his money. I mean, Can we not have a cheaper fish that has a longer life expectancy for all of us?

The kids of the world, we're breaking their hearts. Is there not a fish that's a little more durable? >> [laughter] >> The goldfish, it's a 50/50 proposition.

Every morning you wake up, you're stressed out. I hope the second one hangs on. That's all I hope.

>> Don't hold your breath. Promise you he's not.

Oh, man. We'll be here all day with the We'll be here all day with the parent jokes. Uh Matthew's up in Gainesville, Florida.

Matthew, how can we help?

Hi, I was wondering should I stick with the trade I'm in, doing HVAC, or should

I switch to another trade like welding or building automation to make more [clears throat] money and do something more fulfilling?

Oh, I think you might have just answered your question. Am I to understand that the you're in HVAC, and if you were going to welding, you perceive that to be more enjoyable, more fulfilling, and it's certainly you know for a fact you can get paid more?

Yes and no. I can make about the same.

It's mainly the company I'm at.

But I have a difficulty trying to go to another company due to experience. Okay, so two things. One, I want you to adjust your phone. You sound like you're inside of a sock.

Uh you know, okay. So, talk to me talk back to me.

Um do you want me to say it again? It's only slightly better. I'm having a hard time understanding you, but we'll keep going. Okay. So, I asked you So, you

presented a question. Okay, I want to hit you with the facts. You said, do I leave my trade of HVAC and go into welding in order to make more money, be more fulfilled. I repeated it back to you, and your reply was, well, uh it'll be about the same amount of money, and really it's just the company I'm at. So, it sounds like you're presenting something different. Do you hear what I'm hearing?

Yes, sir. So, I wonder if I were to wave

my pencil in the air as it were it were magical, and I'm doing right here on camera, Matthew, you can't see it. And I were to remove all of the bad stuff at

this current company. Would you be on the phone with me right now asking this question? Yes or no? No, sir. Huh? No, sir. No.

No, sir. I would not. So, it's not the trade.

True or false?

Correct. It's the place.

True or false?

Correct. All right. Give me something specific.

What is What is really bothering you?

I do about 2 hours at work and then I sit on my phone the rest of the the day just to get my hours so I can have money and pay bills. Okay. Now, Matthew, I am so glad you called today because I think there are literally millions of people that are going to hear this. And folks, I want to make sure you hear what Matthew just said. Matthew is feeling burned out. True or false, Matthew?

True. And Matthew is feeling burned out not because he's working too hard. He's not working enough, Jade. He's bored.

Yes. >> want to call this out real quick and we'll move on. But I want this massive audience to hear what very few people will tell you that boredom is one of the biggest causes of burnout.

Mhm. Human beings are wired, we are created by our creator

to work, to progress, to overcome

challenges. It is in our soul.

So, I just want to put that out there. You're right. And many of you are looking for a solve that you don't need to look for and you need to look inward and go, "I'm bored out of my skull and

as a result my soul is slowly seeping

from my body." So, just a real quick sermon there. We won't take an offering.

Uh but I just want to make sure that you're paying attention to what Matthew's paying attention. So, Matthew, here's the fix.

I'm not against you nor would I tell you not to move into welding because to me as long as you as welding is creating uh a unique challenge, in other words, you've got the skill to do it, but it also is interesting and it's enough of a challenge that you have to apply yourself and you're actually working all day, then yes, move into welding.

However, if you can find another HVAC company that actually works you during the day, doesn't overwork you, then that's the simple fix. So, we won't We don't want to run away from something. I want to run to something and in this case, I don't [music] think the something is another trade. I think it's a different company and I'm going [music] to stick with that. So, hey, thanks for being honest and you can fix this real easy. Go somewhere where you can work, my man.

>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to be with you. Let's go to Christopher in Denver, Colorado. Christopher, how can we help?

Yeah. Merry Christmas to both of you.

Thank you for taking the call. >> and Merry Christmas to you.

Yeah. Um so, my wife and I, we have a daughter that's 3 years old and a son that's 9 months old. And the day my son was born,

uh my father-in-law tragically passed away, unfortunately. >> Oh my gosh. And you know, the the grief and trauma that's come along with that has led to many challenges for my immediate family.

And you know, in um in his will, he had he

had essentially um said, you know, "Real estate's the best investment and I would really prefer you to hold on to my home and uh use it as a

uh rental property." Well, due to the grief that's been caused by this, you know, my wife consequently lost her job. And you know, that that $90,000 deficit is, you know, pretty substantial. Um so, I'm I'm I have a financial and moral dilemma on my hands. And on one hand, I'd I'd really like to um uh um you know, o- obey his wishes and on the other hand, you know, I I have a family to look after.

And Okay, let me let me jump in for a second. Cuz I Yeah. think we got to dig into some stuff.

Your father-in-law died 3 years ago, is that right? No, this this year in March. >> 9 months. Oh, so I wrote 9 years old.

Sorry. So, 9 months So, 9 months ago your father-in-law died.

Correct. >> And the grief from that led to your wife losing her job. Yeah, she was let go

from her job. What Can I ask, is there some type of unique circumstance on that? Yeah. Yeah, it was um you know, without getting into too much detail, self-inflicted, you know. Okay, got you.

All right. It's a very, very traumatic to the point where she's not able to function at work.

Um certainly, yeah. >> Okay. And how much was she making?

She was making 90,000. And how much do you make? Before taxes and bonuses, I make 120.

Okay. And now, let's move into So, what are the financial challenges? I'm assuming it's debt.

Um unfortunately, no. We We've worked very hard to get out of debt and that's kind of the reason why I'm I like you. I like you. >> Correct. >> I'mma walk you through this. So, you have no debt. Do you have an emergency fund? Uh I have had to drain it to um one, take care of my welcoming our new

son. Two, um taking care of the property

that's in Texas, I should add. We're in Denver. This is in Texas. >> Okay, good to know. >> do you have siblings that are also in the will on this property or is it just you? It is just my wife. So, the

>> right, your wife. So, what's the property worth if you were to sell it?

Yeah, you know, I've gotten um my real estate agent says um about 325 if we

were to put, you know, X, Y, and Z into the home. Um without putting in uh the upgrades

into the home, we're probably looking at just south of 300.

>> And how much Okay, so what would you What would your wife walk away with if we sold it as is?

Um let me get that number for you. Um we're looking at about, you know, at 325, 303,000.

Um without, we're looking at about 278,000.

>> So, you would So, you guys would walk away with 278k. Okay.

Uh what happened with the birth of of your child to where it drained your entire emergency fund?

Uh that was not the the part that drained it. Unfortunately, it was uh hiring movers, getting us physically down there to go through the home. You know, it it's not it's not my home. So, >> Oh, I understand. So, you know, I have to be very sensitive to my wife and allow her to, you know, take the time to

go through his belongings. You know, all of his home is basically in my home now.

>> How much was in your How much was in your emergency fund?

Uh 25,000. You drained it. Holy smokes.

>> Correct. And on Uh well, we have about 4,000 remaining, but the repairs on the home would cost us upwards of 23,000.

All right, so >> Let me Let me cut through for a second.

So, I it sounded like it sounds like, and I think I'm right, obviously you're thinking, "Hey, we're feeling a $90,000 deficit year over year. If I can get my hands on some of this money, I can invest it and kind of make up that loss that way she can take the time that she needs and it's not going to continue to have such a drain on us, right?" >> Almost, but my what I would like to do is we purchased our home in 2022. Our

interest rate is 7.125%.

7.125%, excuse me.

And you know, it's my opinion that by refinancing, you know, we can substantially lower our mortgage about $2,100. Okay. On the on the flip side of

that, you know, after speaking to uh property managers in the area, it's expected that we could get roughly 2,200 in rent for the property.

Um and that's before fees, taxes, etc.

For your father-in-law's property?

Correct. So, here here Let me just Let me tell you what I'm thinking. I'm I'mma be 100% honest with you. Um I don't

think this is your decision to make alone in a vacuum, number one. And if

this loss has been what has been, my

guess is that she's might not be down to ride on this just yet.

>> Where is she at? >> Well, let me let me finish let me finish the loop here. And then the final thing is if you do sell this property and cuz I want to say this on the front end, the only reason that I would say to do this right now is simply because of the location.

I'm not uh it for me it's not a financial thing of like we have to recoup this money doing a bunch of math. For me it's more like, "Hey, you can't really manage this

uh from where you are in Denver." And we've seen that. You've already shelled out far more money than you need to going back and forth and whatnot. And we would tell nobody to be a long-term landlord in that way. So that if if you sell it, that would be my reason why and I would say, "How can we sell this? Is

is the mother-in-law alive? Who do we need to talk to to make this feel right?" But it would not be for the reasons that you're saying. So I just want to put that out there cuz it feels >> I I appreciate your opinion. I I do and um

fortunately, you know, I completely agree with you. Um this is my wife's decision. For uh you know, the the the

the reality is that you know, I I'm a finance guy of the home, right?

>> Yeah, and I hear that. I can hear it in your numbers. >> And yeah, and um uh you know, she is um

we're doing everything that we can to to keep this property cuz I do want to honor those wishes. >> Okay, so let's So there's So that's what we need to be focusing on. It feels like you called in and said, "Should we sell it?" But in your your your wife is saying, "I don't want to sell it." Is that true? No, she wants to do what's best for us.

Well, what do you think is best?

I would sell it. I would sell it, too.

>> it because of what she said what Jade just said is that it's a it's a burden for you guys. You've already blown a ton a bunch of money. I'd sell it as is

and and inv and invest that money, build your mercy fund back up, and invest it, and let's do something good with it. Let's walk the baby steps out with whatever comes in. Or if you really did feel like I think the way you framed it earlier was why he wanted you to keep it was because real estate for him was was the best investment. So in my mind, the and this is just I'm spitballing.

I'm not saying you must do this.

the money to be used on would be maybe Okay, maybe you do buy an investment property. Maybe you pay off your mortgage because that's a property and then now that's another asset.

>> what I mean. >> So roll it back into real estate whether it be yours or you know, whatever that is. And that way you're keeping the memory alive, you're keeping his values alive, but you're also doing the right thing for your family.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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>> [music] >> All right, Lilly is up next in Kansas City. Lilly, how can we help?

Hi, I have been with my partner for 4

years.

Wow, Lilly, you just broke up really bad. So we didn't hear that part. We just heard you were with your partner and then it went into like some ghost sound. haunted >> Sorry about that. Can you hear me now?

Really clear. Okay, so start that whole thing over. Okay, I've been with my partner for 4 years. >> Okay. I moved out here. Um we live in a rural

area outside of Kansas City and found out this year that [clears throat] he does not want to get married. Okay. Mhm.

Which is a problem for me because I've been investing into his household and into this property for the last 4 years.

>> Tell Woah woah woah woah. Sorry. Tell us what that means specifically. How much have you invested? So he

owns his own home and he has He bought

the house in 2012 at a interest rate of like 3%. Um crazy

low. Okay. And he should have this paid

off in about 7 years. And when I say investing, I mean I have been I I pay for things living here. I know. I'm asking for how much and like what? A kitchen, a bathroom, what? Give us specifics.

I apologize. It's not that not that deep.

Um I pay for things in this household.

The only way he will let me pay for things is if I buy groceries,

pay for like our bedding, household items. Well, that's not investing in Okay, I'm tracking now. But that's not investing in the house.

It's not investing in the house, but here's my problem. Here's the dilemma.

When he told me he wouldn't marry me, he set up a revocable trust.

Okay.

Um leaving everything to me, you know, when he passes away.

My problem is is that I'm living paycheck to paycheck buying the things that I'm buying for the house and he pays the mortgage, pays the bills, and won't let me be a true partner Well, hold on, Lilly.

I feel like we're focusing on the wrong thing. >> Yes. >> Her brain Jade, I'm I'll get out of your way cuz your brain's about to explode on the revocable trust. But but Lilly, I'm just going to speak to the relationship side.

Okay? Here's what I just heard. Uh I moved out here 4 years ago to be with this guy. He doesn't want to marry me.

And he made it very clear, but as a consolation prize, he created an irrevocable trust. Jade will get to that in a second. I don't That to me is just weird. >> It's so weird. >> you kept then you went, "And but he won't let me pay for things and he won't let me Why are you still trying? >> Why are you even in the house? This this is this relationship is over.

Right? Right?

I mean, I yeah, in my mind it the the

trust is revocable, by the way, not irrev irrevocable. >> It's Sorry, it doesn't matter. The whole thing is weird and tell him never mind because if you don't want to marry me, why would you leave all your stuff to me? What does that mean? >> to me that's just a weird thing and it proves this guy's a weirdo. And I'm not trying to be unkind. And I'm not trying to be insensitive, but you called us, so we're automatically on team Lilly.

>> Let me just tell you that for me it's it's very manipulative, too, because it's this way of keeping you on the hook forever Exactly.

>> that without marrying you. Why would you say, "I won't marry you, but I'm going to leave you after I die all of my major

assets?" I'm going to tell you what this is. I'm going to tell you what it is. This is friends with benefits and the benefit is he he wants you, >> Bro, but he don't want to marry you.

>> This is sleeping with the enemy. Remember that? >> he's going to give you his whatever just so that you No, that's weird. This guy does not want to be married to you in a union with you. He wants the benefits that come with this and that would make me feel gross.

Mhm. I feel gross for you. It does it and and even being part of the revocable trust, it feels like I'm being >> Say no and break up with Break up with him and leave. >> When did this start, Lilly? When did you find out he doesn't want to marry you and when did he tell you about this weird trust thing?

Oh boy, you did. This year early this year and he set up the trust about 2 months later cuz I told him that I didn't He says he feels like he doesn't want to get married because the government gives the government too much power over his assets.

>> stop. >> Bull crap. This guy is such a bad liar.

>> tell you, when he told when you said, "Why aren't we getting married?" and he said, "I don't want to marry you." Did you give him some What I want to know is did you give him some sort of sort of ultimatum? Did you tell him he was you were leaving and then this was the response to that? That is correct. You did? Yes. Well, why are you still with him?

Cuz he created the revocable trust and and now he's >> That's what you let it work. It worked.

>> you didn't give him an ultimatum and do anything about it. You threatened. And then he went, "I see your threat >> And I raise you some manipulation. >> raise you some manipulation. And you said, "Bet." I know I'm right. I've been right for about 3 or 4 minutes into this call and I'm going to >> to hear it from someone that was unobjectionable. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does. Break up with him. If you were my sister, I would be like, "You have no respect for yourself if you stay in this relationship." >> And and I agree with Ken and now let me just hit on just a a personal note, you

as a human being, there is a a sunk cost here, right?

You're like, "Man, I love this guy. I spent 4 years." 4 years is a long time.

And you got up and you moved to be with this person. There is a lot there and I understand that you're probably like, "Can I salvage some of this?" Because if I can't salvage this, then I you have to come to terms with whatever that means to you about you. Like, I can't believe I fell for this guy or I can't believe right? And that's very, very difficult to do and my guess is that's probably why even though he said he wouldn't marry you you continued on up until the point of this call is there was some part of you that probably was like maybe there's something here I can salvage, maybe there's still a chance that this could turn around and I totally get that and Ken and I are not making fun of you or knocking you.

It's hard to walk away from a household that I put so much time and energy into because now I walk away with nothing.

Well, you had an expectation of what that was going to mean. Well, she had an expectation of what that would bring.

>> I know, but I'm going to tell you why I disagree and this is team Lily. Lily

that's the wrong thing to say. You've been telling yourself I'm walking away with nothing. I'm going to tell you you're walking away with something and it's your dignity. >> That's facts. Come on. That's facts. You got to know you got to rewire this message. The narrative is I'm not going to let this guy manipulate me

and rob me of my dignity. I'm walking away with my dignity intact and that's a big deal and I'm going to make my life better and I'm going to focus on getting myself to a place where I'm not living paycheck to paycheck and I'm going to get myself healthy and deal with what Jade is saying and she's real here. I mean this hurts. I'm not minimizing this. This really stinks but there is healing on the other side of this and I think there's love, real love Yes. on the other side of this.

Because here's the thing I and and I I I'm not pooh-poohing any

anybody's journey, Ken. >> Sometimes we have to pooh-pooh some things. Yeah, I'm just saying when when the real man comes Lily, he's going to know and it ain't going to take him four years to figure it out. I'm going to tell you that right now. >> That's true and you'll know.

And Lily, since we're playing armchair quarterback here, it's the nature of our job. All right, we're not going to focus on the past. We're going to set our mind on the things of the future and we're going to heal and we're going to move forward, okay? However, for Lily and all of the

other people listening or watching, please don't uproot your life and move to some place for somebody who's not willing to change their life for you.

>> Thank you, Ken. Let me say it again. Do not uproot your life for somebody who's not willing to change their life. If they change their life in that they say we are all in and getting married, then I will uproot.

>> Mhm. But I got to tell you a lot of manipulative dudes out there. I'll just leave it at that. Yeah. So Lily, uh get out of there.

What do you let's let's just say we got we got about a minute. So real quick answer. Uh would you have moved to Kansas City for any other reason than this guy?

No. No. Okay. So here's the Absolutely not.

>> Okay. So here's the deal.

Here's what I and I I know there's a lot so I'm not going to ask you anything else cuz I think you got to grieve this but I would tell you that the reason I asked you that is I want that to be the resounding thing you take away from this call. You only moved there for this guy.

You know this guy is not your guy. So now let's begin the mindset of where do I want to restart my life and this can be exciting. It can be healthy. Dare I say it can be full of fun adventure but it starts with going nope, I don't want the trust. I don't want you. I'm out.

Jade, final word. >> Yes. Men and women, let's stop putting ourselves in these positions where there [music] is this power indifference especially when it's not a marriage. This business of moving in with somebody and it's their place and they hold all the cards and you're kind of at their mercy for them to let you in. This business needs to stop.

Live at your own house. There's nothing wrong with living at your own house and dating somebody and at the end of the day you go home to your house that you own by yourself until you're married.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, if you're listening to the show and you want to be better with your money but you haven't started, the question is why haven't you started doing something about it? You know there's a problem but why haven't you started doing it? It's a big question, right? And I think that you know, I've said this for years, Jade, that we humans, I being at the top

of the list we would rather be miserable than uncomfortable. Ooh.

Right? Just think about that cuz we kind of know the miserable and we're talking about financial misery here in this particular situation. >> It's the devil we know. That's right. Uh and and and so the Dave has said this too. It's like people finally change where they go, oh, I actually am sick

and tired of being sick and tired. In other words, I now would rather be uncomfortable Mhm. than be miserable.

Here's one example from some of our Ramsey Baby Step Facebook community folks. This is Shay. When I got sick and tired of giving my harder money to paying credit card interest, I felt like I was paying twice for all the items I was purchasing. I was fed up

with rising interest rates and playing the games of shuffling all my debts to 0% interest cards and not getting ahead. I love that one. Julia said, when I realized how much money we actually take home in a month and are still living paycheck to paycheck, it was ridiculous. Never again. Wow. All right, now how about this one? Joseph said 1,000% the moment

was when we had our daughter, our first child and my buddy who makes half of what we make is able to have his wife stay at home with their kid where we can't afford to. Now that's the ah-ha moment. Like that's where you're like uh something's really wrong.

So really unbelievable. We've got a link

um in the show notes uh at ramseysolutions.com/start and this is where you can take it's free, takes you a few moments. It's called the Get Started Assessment. And it'll allow you to get a real nice snapshot of where you are and a customized money plan that will allow you to say, oh, I can make a difference. Again um ramseysolutions.com/start

and uh send us your comment. Those of you that have had that I've had it moment.

>> Have you had a moment? Me? Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. I think it for me it was of course this is so long ago. I got to like I got to like Dig it up.

>> go back into it but I the moment for us was we were two two incomes, double income, no kids.

And the debt that we had accumulated trying to get started in our life, we were like absolutely struggling.

We had stuff but we were miserable because we weren't we were we were living paycheck to paycheck and we weren't actually we were living more than the paycheck and I think for me it scared me. Yeah. So my my I had it was, ooh, I don't like this feeling. Yeah.

Yeah. Uh no control over my financial life and the control issue actually like that was the issue. But anyway, we'd love to hear your comments of your sick and tired moments. ramseysolutions.com/start.

We got a link in the show notes for the assessment and again, it's a wonderful little tool so go check that out. Boise, Idaho is where we go next and Evan is joining us there. Evan, how can we help?

Hey there. I got a question for you about credit card cash back. Hit me.

>> I know of course you guys's opinions on that but I have I think a unique unique situation.

>> Here it is. Evan believes, folks, that he's got a scenario that we have not heard before. This is breaking news.

Evan, take it away. What is the loophole? All right, so I own a

business where I buy and sell used camera equipment. Now with the volume that I'm doing, I'm making about $3,000 a month in just cash back.

It's never um all the money is always backed by cash in a high yield savings account.

Pay it off all immediately as soon as the payments post and then just reap the rewards. Mhm. Never heard that. We have never heard it put that way before. How much is in your high yield? >> I'm kidding.

About 60,000. Oh, yeah, so you've got plenty.

I mean there's there's a couple of schools of thoughts that we could go down the road of um >> [sighs] >> let me start and I I I'm not going to lie. This is not my favorite argument and I and I'll tell you why but it is an argument. When you really think about how credit card points are derived and what they come from it is really off the

backs of who they're hoping will fail at the system, the people who won't make their payments on time, the people who will default. That's where the ability to do this point these points are coming from. So, from um um And I And I'm just saying it. I'm not saying it has to be your ethics, but from an ethical point of view, a lot of people don't like that. They don't like the fact that one person has to fail for another person to win. So, that's kind of one of the the the

arguments you could make. >> the gross factor. >> It's the gross factor that you could say for that. Now, that being said, there are lots of causes in the world, Ken, that people can say, "Well, I don't You know, I don't use coffee if it's not fair trade, and I don't do this if it's right, right?" And you get to pick your causes if that's not one of them.

That's your bad. >> the sweater you're wrapping right now. Some people because of the values won't go to Disney. We're not going to go to Disney World.

>> [laughter] >> I said some I said some people. Yeah.

>> so my point is my My point there, Evan, is I'm not trying to like saddle you up with guilt, but I'm just trying to present the op- the the option for you to think about something. The same way you presented something to say, "Hey, you guys may not have thought about this scenario." I want you to think about that scenario. And I'll really just leave it at that because I'm never going to And you know this, calling. I'm never going to tell somebody to go into debt.

Like, period. I'm just not. Um do I believe you when you say that you are you know, Paying it every month. >> paying it every month and you've got the money backed there. Yeah, I do believe that. Do I also believe that if something happened and your business did

not make the money you thought it would, uh would it cost you maybe a thousand or so bucks? Yeah, probably. Could you absorb that? Yeah, you could, but would it be better if you didn't? Yes, it would. I So, I think about things like that. I also think about the idea that when you use credit and when you use plastic, you are going

to spend more. That's what the data tells us. Depending on the type of purchase depends on the percentage more that you will spend. And that that there's also something something to that. Like, your operating costs would probably be lower if you were paying cash versus knowing that you were getting points. So, these are just things for you to be thinking of. Um judging by your demeanor when you called in, I don't think you're going to change it, but I also am not going to lose sleep over it, and neither will you.

Yeah, [laughter] I mean, Evan, what's the Evan, what's the uh total max you could put on that credit card that you're paying off every month?

22,000. Yeah.

Could you see a scenario where you would be tempted or you could be tempted to use some of that credit and not pay it off? No, I hate that. I'm scared of it.

But yet you have it.

It's just that's what they gave him. >> I like, for instance, I'm scared and this is I'm going to be vulnerable. I'm very scared of snakes.

Okay? I because of that, I would never have a snake in my house. You say, "Well, it would be in the uh what do you call those things? What do you put a snake in? Is it like a uh aquarium?" >> at the wrong one. >> Aquarium. I wouldn't put it in there because to me, if I'm scared of the snake, even though it's in the aquarium and I would never take Like, it to me, it just makes zero sense as to why if

I'm scared to death of credit, I would put something in place where you could potentially get >> He's getting enough of a benefit in his mind from it that for him it's worth it to keep it. >> So, Evan, we're not going to change your mind. I'm not sure why you called, right?

Sure. >> [laughter] >> So, I'm just curious to see what your explanation was. >> here's my real answer. You're not going to stump us. Like, that's our explanation. I just don't think you're going to go for it. >> The snake one was a new one. I don't like it. And I I I used it because I used this one last week. So, I'm going to go back to the ice cream. Ice cream.

>> Okay. I have a real love of ice cream.

And ice cream is not good for me because most of the time I eat ice cream is not at 2:00 on a Saturday. My ice cream love

tends to come out after 7:00. And we shouldn't eat anything after 7:00. More Mostly should not eat ice cream for me.

Bubble guts. It's terrible. Yeah. And so, Evan, if I But I don't have any ice cream in my house. Because if I did I used to keep ice cream in my house. I would always have some type of a pint or a gallon in there. And now, guess what happens? I don't want to eat ice cream.

I don't want to eat ice cream. Evan, I don't want to eat ice cream. I don't like the way ice cream makes me feel in the morning when I weigh myself. I don't want it. I don't want it. >> love the way it tastes. Gosh, it's right there. It's right there.

I just think if you're scared of eating ice cream and what it will do to you after hours, don't have the ice cream in the freezer. He's It's going to take something happening for him to change his mind. And I hope it never does.

>> recording this and he's going to tell his buddies he got us.

Well, he didn't get us. We just have different values. Yeah. Different different beliefs. >> Yeah. I love

>> [music]

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Start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Mitchell joins us in Chicago, Illinois. Mitchell, how can we help?

Yeah, hey guys. I could use some help and your opinions on a car purchasing decision coming up here. All right, tell us what's happening.

Yeah, I'll set the stage a little bit here. Household income is about 200,000

a year. And we're debt-free outside of the mortgage. We've got a 30,000 in the emergency fund.

But the wife's car is going to

needs a new engine. And make a long story short on that, but I'm we're just going to go car shopping this weekend for a used car. Mhm. Um

the writing was kind of on the wall. I had saved We've probably got about 15 grand set aside already for a new car.

So, that's a good starting point.

>> Mhm. But as I've been kind of digging in and figuring out what we want, uh of course, you know, the the creep is coming in, and we're you know, starting to look at ones that are closer to 25 or maybe up to like 30 grand out the door.

I'm not mad at it. >> So, you know, I'm you know, I'm a long time listener, and there's just like this under you know, I'm the nerd in the relationship, and there's just like guilty part of my conscience that's like, uh do we really pull like 15 grand out

of our emergency fund to get us up to 30

in cash that we'll pay out the door?

>> I wouldn't do that because it's not an emergency, per se. It's not an It's an emergency for you to get a car. It's not an emergency for you to spend 30k.

What I don't have a problem with I don't have a problem with you guys spending 30k. I think you need to save cash to do it and not touch an emergency fund for it. I would say that.

>> Yeah, the the only wrench that gets thrown into it is that the wife's car is burning oil,

and I just got done going through the dealership and verifying with an independent mechanic that it needs >> Understood, but nothing Understood, Mitchell, but nothing stops you from getting what you can afford and then upgrading later.

Nothing stops you from Do you see what I'm saying? >> Or or and I have driven cars. I feel like I'm the expert on driving cars that burn oil.

How long can I understand that it it's going to eventually need a new engine. Is there some kind of estimate on how much longer this car might last?

Well, just kind of talking with people and stuff, it's burning about a quart and a half to two quarts every thousand miles. So, you know, can I keep putting in oil in it and maybe get another couple months out of it? Maybe.

>> Try it. It's given it's winter, and you know, it's >> You don't have nothing to be nervous about. To Jade's point, you've got 15k.

So, go with me for a moment, Mitchell.

All right? Yeah. So, let's take what you just said. And by the way, I've done that while I was saving up to buy a car.

Jade, I would go to uh like a big warehouse store and buy a box of oil.

And I'd check my oil every two or three days. >> Mhm. Mhm. Uh in fact, Joe Hankin is

running the board today. Joe, you remember when I was we were doing the show in Gainesville, Georgia, WDUV. You remember uh I'm driving a uh I forget what I was driving, but I was checking my oil almost every 2 days

to make sure that, you know, I wasn't going to blow the engine up, and you can keep an engine going if the only problem is burning oil, oh yeah, you can keep it going. So, here's my point, Michelle. Uh oil is a lot cheaper than than than buying a $30,000 car until we have the money for it. So, let me change gears here, no pun intended. I can't believe I just said that. That's that's horrible.

>> terrible. That was all I didn't mean to do that. All right, Michelle, how many months would it take for you to save up the additional 15 to get a $30,000 car?

Uh somewhere in the range of three to four. I mean, the 15 is the gap on the emergency fund. >> I would go buy a bunch of oil. Yep.

And I would check that oil every three or four days. >> Make it last forever. Yeah, make it last. Keep Just oil's cheap.

And then how would you So, Michelle, let's just play this out. Let's assume you do what I tell you to do, and you nurse this thing, and you 3 months from now you've got the additional 15k, and you go buy a $30,000 car that you guys have really got your eye on right now. How would that feel?

Mhm.

Uh that would that would feel really good assuming that's how it plays out. Oh, but but but wait wait wait wait wait wait. Wait wait wait wait wait. Let Can I jump in here cuz I I hear I hear what is in my book, which is the difference between rational and irrational fears, Ken.

>> it is. You have a fear, Michelle, and your fear is very very vague. The fear

and it but it's stopping you from doing something that we're telling you, "Hey, there really is no there's no nothing bad can happen from you playing this out further." >> No, cuz if it blows up, he's got a car he's got 15k. He's got a car.

>> But what instead you're letting this very vague fear of "Well, something could happen with the car. The car could blow up. It could end up on the side of the road. It could" but you're not telling us something very very real and specific that you're specifically scared of. Are you scared that your wife's going to be in the car with the kids?

She's going to be pulled over on the side of the road? You're going to be stuck at the office? You won't be able to come get her? Tell us specifically >> Oh. what you're afraid of cuz then we can solve for it. But if you're going to keep it floating in the air as this big vague monster that nobody can fix, then

we can't help you. So, tell us specifically what you think's going to happen. >> what you just kind of outlined there, Jade. You know, that's the real fear is like, you know, we're in the dead of winter in Chicago right now, and, you

know, if she has dropped them off in the morning or something and that engine blows, then, you know, we're finding ourselves in a bit of a pickle and down to one vehicle. >> Hold on, let's play it out. Let's play it out. >> it out.

What would you do? Okay, your wife calls you, and exactly this scenario happens. >> I'm on the side of the road. The kids are in the car.

I'm going to be late for school. They're going to be late for school. They're going to be late. I'm in my pajamas.

I don't want anybody to see me.

I mean, we'd be going new car shopping.

>> No, that's not what you would do.

In the moment, what would you say to your wife? We're role-playing. What would you say to her?

>> Yeah, I'm uh I'm on the way in the truck. Yeah. And how long would it take you? Play out the the worst possible scenario. If you were >> Yeah, love this. How long's it take you to get to her?

Half hour at the most. >> Okay, is she and the kids going to freeze to death in that time?

Nope. Okay, would you get fired from your job for having to take off and go rescue her?

Nope. Okay. And in Chicago in Chicago, aren't you kind of you know, you keep blankets in the trunk. You wear a coat when you go out no matter what, right?

>> point. We could have a contingency for such a problem. >> Yeah. Oh. So, I >> Yeah, and I think, you know, the real crux of why I wanted to call you guys is like more more on the front of just the emergency fund. >> an emergency. Does this warrant that?

No, it does not it does not warrant you taking from the emergency fund because it's not an emergency. This is not urgent. We know that you can get even if it's not three or four months to Ken's point, you know you have a little bit of time, so it's not urgent. >> number one, and you got a $15,000 sinking fund.

>> not unexpected. >> now want a $30,000 car. So, you've actually done everything that we would teach you to do. You knew this was coming.

You actually are the nerd, Michelle.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah.

It's not an emergency. Yeah, and your fear, while being now it's validated, we

just solved it for you. So, it doesn't have to stop you from moving forward with Ken's plan. Hand warmers, wool blankets, >> and a charged cell phone will go a long way. >> phone, uh maybe AAA membership if for some reason you couldn't get there, they could I mean, you know, there's a lot of things here.

I'm just telling you I want you to get the $30,000 car, and so does Jade. So, we think it's three to four months of and I promise you I'm not the only person that has nursed a engine that is And by the way, the engine won't blow if it has oil in it.

I inherited a 1988 Nissan Pulsar from my

sister. [laughter] It was her first car, and then when she stopped driving it, I got it, and I had to the transmission was so messed up that she had to let it sit before it could go in reverse. You had to let it warm up for like 10 minutes, and I had to pour oil in it almost every day.

>> Yeah. And you can do it. Is it obnoxious? Yes. But is it better

than taking 15k out of your emergency fund? I hate touching my emergency fund.

Never. Never.

I love it. Never. Michelle, you're a good man. Uh you got two options. Go buy the $15,000 car, and then upgrade later like Jade said, or wait three or four months to go get you a case of oil.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio alongside the fabulous Jade [music] Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman, and we're so happy that you're with us. Jade's going to take lead on your money questions, and if you are feeling burned out or you just stressed out, no life

balance as relates to your work, uh I

help people win in those areas as well.

We did a survey recently, Jade, where we heard from the tribe. They said, "We are feeling that way." And that affects your money, by the way. So, uh here to help on those specific questions as well. Laura's joining us now in Hartford, Connecticut. Laura, how can we help today?

All righty. I've got a residential real estate property that my mother owns in Brooklyn, New York. Uh

it's currently in a trust, and when she passes, it will be inherited by myself and my three siblings. Hey, Laura.

Laura, can we see if we can have you adjust your phone so we can understand you a little bit better?

Sure. Sure. Is that better? Oh, so much.

Thank you. Great. Great. So, um the property is worth about $2 million. It's a um residential property. It's got two rental units on it. It's being rented.

Uh I am debt-free and ready to retire in 2026. My husband's already retired.

I've got two siblings that when we inherit this property would like to uh knock it down and develop it into a four-apartment building, which I'm guessing it'd run about $4 million, which means each of us would be about a million dollars in debt. Oh, boy. >> others And I've got two other siblings that just want to sell sell it and divide the profits by four. How do I convince the two that want to sell it I mean, sorry, that want to invest it that that's a terrible idea?

If I heard you correctly, I'm just asking, is it three to two?

two?

It's myself and another who want to

sell, and two others that want to >> Okay, two on two. So, so we're split down the middle. Right. And they either want to develop it or just keep it and divide the rental income amongst the four of us, which is awful. And the assumption is that all everybody should just be willing to go into a million dollars of debt to do this. >> Mhm. Exactly. Well, that's absurd.

>> Or become landlords, right? Cuz they they've given you two options.

Develop it or we just rent it.

Right. And the rental income it'd probably be $1,000 each a month, which

in my mind is worthless. Well, if the two siblings were so willy-nilly to say, "Hey, just

fork over a million dollars," then why don't you tell them to fork over the money to buy you out?

They don't have it, and I don't have it.

No no no hold on. No, but But No, I

think, Jade, you're actually on to something. So, so Laura, if it were me,

I would say two things, um maybe three.

We'll We'll count We'll count them in a second. Here's what I Here's what I would do. Um number one, I would make the case that what you're asking me to do is to go into debt, and I don't do debt, so it's off the table. You've got to make it super clear to them where they're like, "Oh, she's like doesn't appear to be movable on this.

It's just I'm not doing it this stage of my life. Hubs is retired. I'm just not going to go into debt for scenario one." Secondly, I'm going to get out of your way quick.

interested in getting $1,000 a month. That's like peanuts for me at this stage of my life.

>> Right. Okay? And then uh three, I'll

tell you what I would do. If you want to take out a loan, which they're their option number one is to take out debt to knock this down and they can take out money and pay you your share of the two

million dollars. >> Right, which is less than the debt that they would take to develop it.

>> what I cuz if they want to take out debt, they're going to do it anyway. >> Yeah. And that's not you're not on the hook. So you go, "Give me my money. Let me get out of the way." Here's what I don't want to do. I don't want my value system That's right. to create conflict.

So I've told you what I'm not going to do. Let me tell you what I will do.

Here's my cut of the two million.

Yeah. >> And so you part of your whole debt structure, you give me my cut and guess what I'm going to do. I'm going to walk into the sunset with my husband and we're going to be in Cancun well and we'll talk to you Thanksgiving. Yeah.

That's what I would do. Make the math make sense for them because I and and it's the end of the day. It's the end of the day so correct me if I'm wrong Ken, but I see two million dollars and I see four people. So each of you has got 500,000 in this. That's right.

So are you telling me that they would rather fork over one million a piece instead of 500,000 a piece?

Or do nothing and divide the rent and be landlords for the rest of our lives, which is a terrible idea. It's horrible.

But now let me ask you this. They can't do any of this without you, correct? It does it take a majority rule?

Or I mean excuse me, is it a unanimous decision or how's this going to go down?

I I believe it has to be all four need to agree. It does? So Laura, my did you

ever see the movie Braveheart?

>> [laughter] >> No, no, but I think I need to. You got to go watch Braveheart tonight. All right, there's a there's the penultimate scene. Okay?

And uh in this history, I'm not going to tell you the whole story, but there's a scene where the English army is they're on horseback and they have a huge army and they're coming after the Scots and the Scots have got axes and you know, it's just it's just a little rabble-rouser group led by Mel Gibson.

And Mel's got a plan. Okay? And he knows that the British are going to be overconfident and they're coming at him, okay? Long story short, he's got these long poles.

They've cut trees and they're waiting for these horses to get close enough so they can lift up these sharp things and and here's the here's what he says to the guys. The horses are thundering down on them and they're freaking out and he goes, "Hold." And they get closer and he goes, "Hold." [laughter] And so my message to you is, Laura, it's a unanimous decision, hold the line.

Option one, nope. Option two, nope.

Option three is give me my 500 grand and you all go bananas. I'm not going to hold up your vision at all. I think it's the only thing they're going to want to hear and I think that's the only thing they should hear from you. So no to

the debt and and developing it, no to being a rental and yes to give me my

500k. Hold. Hold. Hold. Doesn't have to

be ugly. Just Guys, I'm you can do this.

I'm not stopping you. But give me my money. >> It takes 500k. Right. You're willing to go into a million.

Give me 500k. >> Thank you. I that I'm super passionate about that. I think Laura, that's the play. Jade? I I I agree. I agree. Yeah, you've

got all the cards.

They can't do it without you.

>> they can't do it without me. >> super simple.

And by the way, here's the messaging. I want you guys to be able to do this. I would start with, "Hey, you know the plan? I've thought through it. I want you all to be able to do it. Knock it down.

Rebuild it. It's going to be fabulous." But do it without me. >> One caveat. I don't have the stomach for it. My husband and I got a different plan for our life. Want you to be able to do it and so here's the easy thing.

Buy me out. And I'm cheering you on.

Mhm. I would frame it that way.

And and again, I don't know how they're going to react, but I think it's a good deal.

Listen, I've already said it. So I agree with you. So Laura, don't let any family pressure or any of that change your mind cuz you're going to end up resenting them. >> Yeah, I agree with him. I already do, so. Who's the ring I was going to say, somebody's the ringleader in all this and it's not you. Who's the ringleader?

Uh my older brother who thinks this was a family it's a home that our great

great-grandparents were born in and it needs to stay in the family. Got it. Got it. Got it. >> Oh by the way, it is.

It's staying in the family.

You're not holding any of that up. Hey, hey brother, it's staying in the family.

It's just going to take 500,000 over here in my bank account and it's going to be super simple.

>> [music]

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>> Buying or selling your home is a very [music] big deal and there's a lot of misinformation out there. You know, the clickbait stuff on social media, you know, articles, things that are designed to kind of pull you in to make it a bad decision. And we are always going to be here at the Ramsey Show to help you make sense of the latest trends and make good decisions.

Mhm. So just to give you a snapshot, the median home prices have been holding steady around 424,000 in October, about

one in five saw a price cut,

which means buyers might have more room this winter to negotiate. Mortgage rates obviously dipped slightly in October, uh but rates are unpredictable and they move up and they move down. So we're not making decisions based on the rate, it's when are we ready to buy uh based on our

cash position uh to be able to have a good down payment and to be able to afford uh where you are. So this might be a great time for you. Don't get stuck in the headlines to learn more about housing market trends and to get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, you can go to ramseysolutions.com/ market. That's ramseysolutions.com/market.

Let's go to May who joins us in Raleigh, North Carolina. May, how can we help?

Hi sir, how are you doing today? >> Great. How are you?

Good. Um reason I'm calling is I wanted to ask so me and my husband are looking at buying a house next year and we're looking at buying a house between 350 to 400,000 dollars um and we have about a 200,000 dollars in assets for the down payment. So my question is, does it ever make sense to put down more than 20% even if you'd be able to afford the mortgage with that 25% of your take home rule taking into account?

Yes. So I I want to make sure I understand. So you could you're obviously putting down almost half. Did I understand that correctly?

Yes. Yes. And you're saying you don't need to put down half, you could put down 20% and it would still be okay for you. Exactly.

My thing my only the only thing that I might say no to that would be if you have consumer debt and if that money would be better spent paying off your debt ahead of time. But if you don't have consumer debt, then I'm like, "Yeah." Because the best way to pay for a house is if you could put everything down, right?

So do you have any other debt to speak of? No, we're totally debt-free, no student loans, no car debts, no debt whatsoever.

So The only other thing only other thing would be if it's a place that really needs a lot of renovation or a lot of work, you might want to reserve some of that money to do you know, some some you know, renovations on the house. Is there anything like that to speak of?

No, but that was part of my question was we have an emergency fund outside of that 200,000 dollars that's about five months of expenses, but I've heard that you're supposed to have another like bucket of savings once you buy a house for things that could just naturally break. So I wasn't sure how you figure out how much of that like how much you should save for a house for just like in case the HVAC system or roof or something like that needs No, I mean that's what your emergency fund is for and this keeps coming up Ken.

We've talked about this every hour of the show today.

And so if that happens to be your AC going out in the middle of summer, then yeah, you dip into the emergency fund and pay it off. If you've got five months of expenses, if it would make you feel better to have six months, then then go ahead and do that. Um but yeah, I don't I think that you're good to go. I think that what's happening here and this is your choice to make with your husband, but I think what's happening is 200,000 dollars is a lot of money.

Is there right? And I think it's smart that you're just weighing out all your options. So if there were something

that you were going to do with that money other than put it on the house in your mind, what would it be?

So really the only other thing I could think of is putting it in the market and letting it grow so that way maybe in the future we have the ability to buy like a rental property with putting more than 50% down or trying to buy it fully in cash while only having a mortgage on the house. So we don't have any hard set plans. It would just be does it make more sense to let it grow in the market and then maybe buy a real estate property in full later for something like a rental property. Well, the only reason I wouldn't do that is I kind of like it's almost and we've used this analogy for other things before, but it's almost like when you're flying on the plane and they tell you to put the oxygen mask on you first before you, you know, put it on the kids or the people who are next to you.

There's there's part of me that says, if it's my primary residence, that's me and I want to protect me first and put my myself in the best possible situation first, like my residence, because let's think about this, Ken.

somebody loses a job, when somebody has a diagnosis, the number one thing they think about is am I going to be able to keep my home? That's where the security valve is, right? And so right now we're not thinking about that, but if we put ourselves in a scenario like I mentioned, that's the first thing we think about is is my home secure.

you know, the masks on these other things. Then I can start thinking about real estate, then I can start thinking about these other properties that I may or may not pay for in cash. I think that's a really good exercise, May. Have you actually sat down and said, "Okay, if we put 200,000 in it, what is our payment? What's our mortgage payment versus if we put 20% down?"

Yeah, I have done that a bit, just kind of online playing with like mortgage calculators and stuff. Um and really what it seems to be coming down to when I think when I try to figure out does it make sense to put it to the mortgage or to put in the market is mortgage rates and how much you expect the market to return, but from my understanding you're not really supposed to put things in the market that are short-term investments because they're so volatile. So I I don't know if that's really a smart analysis to do, but I have tried to play around with those numbers.

>> that's right. But what is the difference?

It's only I mean, I say only, it's a couple hundred dollars. Um so maybe three, four hundred dollars.

Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. But you could think of it like I'm getting the best of both worlds because if I put the 200,000

down, I'm getting the security on the home front, but I also have $400 freed up that I can still go ahead and invest that and there is something to be gained from that. So I'm almost doing the best of both worlds in that way. Yeah, I I just I was thinking of that in in the scenario that you gave us, Jade. It's smart.

You know, if if if things were to get crazy, you go, "What would be like a like I just wouldn't have to worry." That's right.

you know, um I I think it's a good question.

Really glad you called and wow, I I must

say the fact that you guys have been so disciplined to save up $200,000. We don't talk to many people that have saved up that kind of money. So I say kudos to you. You guys are in great shape and I would ask on the investment question, what is your retirement situation? What's your nest egg right now? So our retirement between us two total is at 295 and we're both 26 years old.

So almost $300,000.

>> Way to go. Oh, see, I'm going to tell you something. You guys are 26.

If you did nothing and I know that's not what you're saying, nor are we recommending, but if you did nothing at this age, that 295 is going to be a lot of money. So just your normal baby step four, you're going to be in phenomenal shape.

>> Well, tell us about your income cuz income alone is telling like the fact that you can do this is telling me you guys are high income earners. What do you earn? Yeah, so right now, so I recently switched jobs, so right now together we earn 200. I was at a previous job where my base salary was about 100 where it is now, but I got very large bonuses and so I've been taking those bonuses and investing that into my retirement and things like that.

So that's kind of how we built this nest egg. So I have kind of made that switch now that I have the nest egg, which I was a bit much.

Yeah, we are civil engineers, so I went into kind of the project manager side of civil engineering and he went into the design aspect of civil engineering.

>> Love it. Love it. That matches up, by the way, with our Ramsey millionaire study. >> It does. Yeah, you guys >> Engineers were in the top five.

Uh and there's two 26-year-olds killing it. You know, listen, I know they have great jobs, but they're in phenomenal shape. So this idea that, "Oh, it can't be done in today's world." And I and I'm not minimizing how expensive things are, but man, they're doing it. Uh and what a great place to be in.

But yeah, I yeah, put it on the house. >> Put it on the house. That's what I would do. >> Let's not forget about that.

>> Absolutely. And it's yeah, it's an investment. There's more than one way to invest. One way is the stock market, another way is in real estate.

Great question, May. Thank you so much for sharing your story and for the question.

>> [music]

[music] >> All right, let's go to John in Kentucky.

John, how are you today?

Doing well. All right, good to have you on here and John is a Baby Steps

Millionaire and we love talking to the Baby Steps Millionaires because they've got great stories, right? And and they tell us how they did it. So John, thank you for that. Tell people how old you are. Uh 28, my wife, Jenna, is 30. Wow.

>> 28 and 30, that's impressive. Okay, what is your net worth?

Uh 1.2 million. Hey. All right, no messing around there. All right, give us the mix of the 1.2.

Uh so the largest portion is in real estate. We've got about 550,000 in real estate. Uh 350 in retirement. We got a couple hundred thousand in non-retirement investments and then about 120 in uh

just liquid cash. Wow. So you're only 28. What kind of what what Where what's the real estate? Is that your home or is that rental properties? What is this?

Uh a little of both. We've got uh our area here in Kentucky, the the market is uh friendly for for real estate investments. So we've got a couple homes within that 550, but uh our home and uh

two rental homes. Wow. And what's your income?

Uh it it varies uh

considering the just varying on the the number of overtime hours I work, but it averages out to about 300,000 combined between the two of us. 300 to 350,000.

>> Good for you. >> Wow, way to go. Killing it. >> guys do?

Uh so my wife's a uh

uh software application specialist and

uh I'm originally a pipefitter by trade,

but I've been working as a piping superintendent the last three years. So I I travel around uh managing industrial

construction projects. Okay. Yeah, go ahead, Jade. >> [laughter] >> I mean, I'm I'm I'm listening to this.

I'm I'm I'm 40-something and I'm thinking, "Okay, if I could have got got been smart enough to get started when you guys were, that would have been amazing." So how did you get good at money? How did you know this is these are the things we need to be doing, we need to be avoiding debt, budgeting, etc. What put you onto that early on?

Uh honestly, I I think about the age of nine, I was eight or nine, I was uh

I was in our garage where our dogs spent most of their time. That's where all their their food bowls were. I was feeding our dogs and realized that we were almost out of dog food and went in the house, I told my mom, "Mom, we're we're almost out of dog food. Add that to the grocery list." And she told me we can't afford dog food this week, maybe next week.

>> Mhm. And uh and and after that, you know, that that stuck with me. I remember going to baseball practice that night and that just it didn't leave my mind the rest of the day. And uh Yeah, it did.

So just uh my parents taught me to uh think before spending and to uh you know, make hay while the sun shines and and save what you can.

Uh three years. Okay. So

what had you saved prior to becoming married?

So I had coming into the marriage, I had

about 160,000 saved. And uh she had about

30,000 saved.

Um the the majority of our No, no debt.

Um I had a uh small auto loan several years ago, but but we've never never had student loans or really any kind of debt of any kind.

When did you start working? How old were you? 18. Okay. So I'm looking at I'm talking to a 28-year-old who's been working for 10 years and you've been able to save a lot of money and I love that you're a pipefitter.

I love that, you know, cuz it's like for too long in America we've looked down on the trades and now I'm talking to a dude who's rolling.

Got properties, no debt in your life, 28-year-old pipefitter. What would you say to parents who are worried maybe about their kids going into trades?

Uh I think uh well, I I'm a lot like you. I think that at 18

um I think you're too young to make a decision on what you want to do for the rest of your life and buy the college education. So, I think that I tell a lot

of folks that even if the trade isn't what you want to do for a career, uh get into it for an apprenticeship and and you get exposed to so many other careers within the

construction industry, the engineering, all the different avenues you can go within construction.

Um it's just a really good stepping stone into management just like I've done. It's it's a great place to start.

And and just just being a construction worker on the tools now, you can make so much money. It's a it's definitely a a worthwhile avenue.

>> So, here you are a a millionaire and in your social circles so social circles and your world, does anybody ever look down on you because you don't have a degree?

Uh yeah. My grandma, uh before she [laughter] passed, every time every time I would talk to her on the phone, she would ask me when I was going to go to school and start getting serious about an education. >> Right. Right.

>> uh for the most part, no. No, I'm really not. >> Oh, I love that. Um what is your saving What has been your saving plan?

I'd love to know what your budget looks like cuz you're definitely both of you are living on less than you make.

Uh I would say our our savings rate is

probably 75%.

>> I knew it. >> 70-75%. >> doing. You guys are squirrels, man.

You're just packing it in. [laughter]

I love that. >> What types of things do you do? I mean, obviously, you're stacking up cash. I'm not mad at it. What What does your lifestyle look like? What types of things do you do to to have fun, to really just enjoy what you've created?

Uh I I would say so we're we're both uh

outdoorsmen and and women. Um we bought

I guess what you'd call a vacation home in Idaho, a small cabin in Idaho so that

uh we can we can spend time hunting and fishing out there and that's that's uh pretty much what we do with our time. I I travel full-time for work.

>> Mhm. So, I'm not home much. So, when we do get time uh together, we we like to go out there. So, now what's the plan going forward? 28 and 30, you're on this massive track to be multi-millionaires.

You got no debt. You got properties. You

got a good job. What What's the dream at

this stage?

Uh that's that's kind of what I'm trying to figure out right now, what we're working on. Um

I'm we're trying to put together somewhat of a maybe a 3 to 5-year plan.

I love what I'm doing right now, >> Mhm. but I I realize that being home 3

weeks out of the year is not sustainable long-term. >> That's right. So, I I think using the upfront uh

earnings at such a young age to to set

ourselves up to to Yeah. create an income off our own investments and then maybe just get further into the real estate thing for myself when I'm ready to come off I got to pivot here real quick. This is what I do. I I I want to I want to help really quickly cuz I think it's pretty clear for you.

Um if if you never needed to earn another nickel, what would you do Monday through Friday?

Mhm.

You know, honestly, I'd probably just move to that little town of ours in Idaho full-time and just be a a handyman and help the ranchers out there >> Can I tell you? I knew >> whatever odds and ends they got. >> Can I tell you something? I think that that's what you ought to You You figure out your calendar, you and your wife. I do think it's crazy for you to be away from her this much for much longer given the financial situation that you're in.

You're crushing it. So, you could transition into this trade and maybe not travel as much. I don't care what the bridge looks like, but I'm going to tell you something. That answer, John, I want you to chew on because you gave me a real answer. Because you're going to be so financially free that you can go out to that area and maybe build something a little bit bigger, get into some real estate there, but stumble into a business around the stuff that you love, which is outdoors.

And I'm telling you, man, that's your future. Talk to your wife about that.

Say, "Hey, Ken put me on the spot and this is what I said." And let her start Let her start answering that question.

What would she do? >> Oh, she's she's right there with you.

All right. >> there with you. We'd go tomorrow if if it was solely up to her.

Well, so here's the thing. One last [music] thing.

That 9-year-old experience was seared on your conscience and you shared it with us and I think that is driving you right now and I think you're you're working crazy, you're doing a lot of amazing things, but don't let that scarcity mindset hold you back from the future that you've earned right now. That'd be my challenge to you.

>> [music]

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>> Our scripture of the day is Proverbs [music] 29:25.

It is dangerous to be concerned with what others think of you, but if you trust the Lord, you're safe. That You You might as well You might as well I feel like I hear you say that kind of stuff all the time. You might as well be preaching right now. And our quote of the day from Theodore Roosevelt, "In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing." Whoop. And

by the way, Yeah.

I I This is silly, but I'm going to share it cuz I think this is going to be powerful for somebody that's listening or watching today.

The worst thing you can do is no thing.

We've turned it into nothing, but when I see that, I go, "It's no thing." Yeah.

To do no thing at all is the worst thing. Well, people think they're not choosing, but doing nothing is also a choice. >> really bad choice. Some of you need to hear that because you know you need to make some tough decisions to change your financial life. It's just sitting there waiting for you to just do that thing.

And that one thing leads to the next thing and momentum is very very real.

That's why we teach the baby steps. So, don't miss that little truth there. We don't just do that scripture and quote just to, you know, throw it out there.

Let it hit you. Mhm. And receive it.

Ethan is up in Kansas City, Missouri.

Ethan, how can we help?

Doing Good. How are you, sir? Doing well.

Thank you guys. So, I'm recently engaged. Congratulations.

Yeah, thank you so much. So, just uh proposed a couple weeks ago. So, now the the big question is wedding and what that's going to look like. So, [laughter] I'm I'm more on We're kind of on two different ends of the spectrum here. I'm more wanting a smaller wedding

with some family, maybe close friends. I mean, I honestly would just elope, sign the papers, and let's do this thing. Classic Classic male response. All right, absolutely.

And my fiance on the other hand, she's more of let's have a bigger wedding with, you know, all all of our family, all of our our friends, and church members and show that biblical covenant in front of everybody. You know, it's the only wedding we're going to have, so let's let's go that route. So, really just kind of the question of how much should we spend on the on the wedding and what route we should go. I mean, the money is what's going to do the talking here in my book.

So, >> Absolutely. >> Who Who's paying for it first off?

So, her her her parents are putting 15,000 towards and then my parents are putting five. Okay, so you've got 20.

What about you guys?

That's Well, that's the thing is so we don't we we'd prefer not to have to go

into our own if if we if we don't have the choice, we don't want to have to spend any of our own.

>> Can you do what she wants to do on 20?

That I mean, I'm We We definitely could.

We definitely could. >> Really? So, I'm I I think I could plan a

I could plan their wedding for $20,000.

When he said a big wedding, like these are vocabulary words that people have different definitions of. So, when you said big, I'm thinking like >> Yeah, what is that? ice sculptures. >> people when she said the whole church?

Well, I mean, if it'd be like all family, extended family, friends, church, all that, I mean, it'd it'd probably be 400, 450, somewhere around there. That's That's what I'm saying. I don't think you're doing $450 wedding on 20,000, my guy. >> Not to guy. I've never [laughter] planned a wedding. I'm going to do it right now. Here's how you do that. Tell me, Ken. The ceremony is for everybody.

All right? >> Oh, we're playing this game. I'm trying to see what you do. >> YOU GOT TO HAVE A GOLDEN ticket to get to the party.

>> He's got 20 grand. You need to do a wedding on 20 grand, but she wants it to be in front of everybody. Then So, what we do is we do a lovely ceremony and the whole church that wants to come, they all get to come, but there is a >> if you're one of the scumbags that doesn't get to go to the party afterwards? I already know where I stand.

>> [laughter] >> Well, tell me these people, 400 people in the church, they all think they're coming to the reception.

>> get to go to the party, I'm not going.

>> And that solves the problem.

Thus, my brilliant I am a brilliant

strategist. I didn't realize this until now. [laughter] This is so clear in my mind, Ethan. Dead serious. So, here's what this is going to do. You've got 20 grand committed.

All right? You two have said, we would like to not put any money in. So, let's play this out. Let's go run it out. So, how would we do all the things we want to do? So, you tell your fiance, all right, babe, here's the deal. You want the whole church? We tell everybody in the church, we're doing a big ceremony, but we're going to do this thing debt free. Blame it on Ramsey. I don't care.

And you say, so what we're doing is is we're going to have a ceremony and we'd like we're going to have a little bags of rice and you can stand around and throw them at us. And then we go to the party spot with 20 of our select

with 100 of our select friends. And the budget will dictate that. Now, if she hears that Mhm. And I by the way, I want this I'm doing this so Jade can like push back for holes in my strategy cuz right now I'm super impressed with my strategy and it might be bad strategy.

But by bringing [laughter] this up to your fiance, then she gets to go, well, that doesn't feel right. And she has the Jade opinion, which is the female opinion and you're probably right. Well, I don't know. So, then we go, well, then we can't invite 400 people.

Mhm. How many people can we invite? >> Yes. And here's my thing. In 2025, do we

have to feed everybody just to come celebrate us? You could I think there's some strategic things you could do there. I don't think so.

I think what you need to do is because I I How much do mini corn dogs cost at Costco? >> need to stop, Ken. >> [laughter] >> I'm just saying, he's got 20 grand.

>> I would, if I were you and this is going to sound like wild and your wife is going to do this. I would books on this because Oh, is that something I can look up? Well, weddings there's etiquette around it. Like when you send, for instance, when you send out the invitation you know, you have to put the stamp on it for them so that they can just send back their RSVP, right?

You wouldn't give them an envelope without a stamp on it. That's considered bad etiquette, right? So, I would check the etiquette around Ken's idea. I'm not saying it's wrong.

I just don't know. >> Brilliance. It feels a little interesting to me. It might be fine though.

So, I would check on that kind of stuff to see is there a way that we can include people in the proper respectful way in one part of the wedding and maybe not in the other wedding. Just make sure you're doing it the right way.

Do does everybody that comes to a funeral go to the graveside service?

No. All right.

I don't know what Go ahead. Ethan, this is your call. I'm trying to save you money, buddy. Jade's trying to cost you money. >> [laughter] >> This got very dark very quickly.

>> It's the truth. So, so my my side of it

with So, we're we're we'll be any debt when we get married and I just I I think future and so knowing that we're we're on the same page about this and I totally agree when when we have kids, she's going to be a stay at home mom and so we'll be on one income. >> Mhm. And so I'm I'm an elementary PE teacher and then coach our middle school football and basketball team. Okay.

And so so for me, I just think future. When when are we going to ever be offered $20,000 ever again? Probably not.

they're okay. They're okay with you taking some of that money and just simply pocketing it for life. Not it doesn't have to go to the wedding.

Well, that's so I think in in some facets, some sort of wedding in in in some way, shape or form, a wedding is going to happen. And so to me, it's like, hey, why don't we, you know, put like make a $5,000 wedding and then we can take the other 15 and then we have that for our future when we're trying to get a house and have kids and whatnot.

>> let me throw this at you. If you invite the right people you will also get cash.

Okay, fair. >> Cuz that's what most people give you as a wedding gift and if they have their etiquette, they're not coming in with a crumpled up 20, right? They're giving you a decent gift. So I'm going to speak on behalf of all males. If you

were to tell me that for the rest of my life with Stacy, when we get invited to a wedding, all I got to do is the ceremony and then I don't have to go eat and do all that stuff, I get to go on with my life, I would be out of my mind.

>> But what's the best part? Is the better part the ceremony or the party? If you if you have to choose, I'm choosing the party. But that's with people you actually want to party with. They do not want to party with 400 people.

>> it doesn't matter. It Or is there going to be an open bar? It's too expensive.

No, we we both don't drink, so there won't be any alcohol. Okay, so then >> a lot of money there. >> a bunch of money. Hey, can I tell you my wedding didn't have an open bar either and that's why we were able to do ours. >> Mine neither. Anyway, trying to help you out, Ethan. I like all these scenarios. Here's what I would tell you. Uh having been married 27 years and I and I love marriage. Come

on, Ken, and say it cuz I'm right there with you. I'd get married yesterday if I could. Listen. I Listen, if it were up to me, I would have just done the little church ceremony and let's go. Yeah. I

didn't want to be at that reception. I didn't want to do all that. I wanted to take off on the honeymoon. >> Well, let me say it from the other perspective.

We had Sam and I had an awesome wedding and we paid cash for it and it was just what we wanted and it was probably bigger than what Ken is saying. Oh, it was bigger than mine. As a person who's been married, you know, less than you [music] know, 15, 16, 17 years I don't think about the wedding anymore. >> No.

You don't think about it either. I can't even remember half of it. The ceremony is what matters to me. Very important covenant.

All right, folks, remember this.